# Canon officially announces the Canon EOS R3



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 14, 2021)

> *MELVILLE, NY, September 14, 2021 – *Building on the success of the EOS R camera series, Canon U.S.A. Inc., a leader in digital imaging solutions, today announced the next leap forward in full-frame mirrorless cameras – the professional-grade Canon EOS R3. The new camera leverages the advancements in technology that Canon has developed since the original EOS R launch in 2018 and bridges the gap between the immensely popular EOS R5 and the world-renowned Canon flagship EOS-1D X line. The EOS R3 is the first “3” series camera from Canon since the widely used EOS-3 film camera launched in 1998.
> *Preorder:* Canon EOS R3 $5999
> 
> The EOS R3...



Continue reading...


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## padam (Sep 14, 2021)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdHSBktofQk


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## H. Jones (Sep 14, 2021)

Canon has made me another happy customer once again!

They have absolutely knocked it away with the features packed in here. Adjustable electronic shutter FPS, *anti-flicker up to 24 FPS!!!*, new "optical viewfinder simulation" hdr viewfinder mode, light-up buttons from the 1DX3, 1/64,000th shutterspeed, electronic shutter to 30 second exposures, unlimited video record times, new white balance, tons of new daily use upgrades, this is absolutely everything I wanted. 

I pray that 6:04 a.m. still gets me one in November.. Was on B&H trying to order, but they really messed me up by not allowing me to put it in the cart for some reason.


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## Quackator (Sep 14, 2021)

And now the billion dollar question: Flash with electronic shutter - is it global shutter or does it only sync to HSS flashes?


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## Alan B (Sep 14, 2021)

Wex in the UK £5879

https://www.wexphotovideo.com/canon-eos-r3-digital-camera-body-3015434/


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## Skyscraperfan (Sep 14, 2021)

That is the AD-E1 shoe.


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## Skyscraperfan (Sep 14, 2021)

...and the AP-P1 smartphone adapter.


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## kaihp (Sep 14, 2021)

Pricing in Denmark: 48.295DKK, so about 1.300DKK less than I expected from the €6100.

Goecker: 48.295DKK https://goecker.dk/webshop/canon-eos-r3-mirrorless-camera-candeosr3.aspx
Photographica looks to be updating their website as I type this (their R3 preorder page is gone)

*Edit:* Photografica 48.299DKK https://www.photografica.com/kamera/spejlloest-systemkamera/canon-eos-r3.html


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## perplex1 (Sep 14, 2021)

I just put in a preorder on Amazon, as well as a small box store online shop. Hope to get this one soon!

Amazon is saying "This item will be released on November 30, 2021". Hopefully thats not the release date for everyone


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## john1970 (Sep 14, 2021)

I also like that it is full 14-bit files at 30 fps. No 12-bit BS!! Preorder through B&H at 6:00 am this morning


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## ausserirdischesind (Sep 14, 2021)

I really like the rounded from the front, but more hard edged from the side body/EVF shape.

I hope new generations of lower end cameras wiill be designed like tjis


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## FrenchFry (Sep 14, 2021)

Interesting that the European prices seem to be less than expected, and the USA prices higher than expected. Also, interesting that Canon chose a totally different euro to dollar price conversion. 

European stores also seem to be displaying launch dates earlier in November than the USA stores.


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## Skyscraperfan (Sep 14, 2021)

Oh, DPRewiew already had an overheating? That's bad news.


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## Alan B (Sep 14, 2021)

Can someone please explain to me about this(below in the black parts) ?

(from description on Wex)

Quote:
*Bringing the power, the speed and high-resolution imaging is the combination of a 26.7 Megapixel CMOS Stacked*, Back-illuminated Imaging Sensor and DIGIC X Processing Engine. This potent blend of industry-leading engineering and photographic innovation has resulted in a highly efficient camera body that is designed for high-speed action, wildlife, sports photography and video recording.

*The image sensor has* *24 effective megapixels* with a built-in low-pass filter which is more than capable enough to allow this camera to capture incredible image detail with manageable file sizes. Moreover, this sensor offers an impressively wide ISO range that adds a huge amount of versatility in shooting options. The ISO 100 to maximum ISO 102,400 can even be expanded to a further ISO 204,800 for even more scope.

Whats the 26.7 MP part about ?


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## HenryL (Sep 14, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> Canon has made me another happy customer once again!
> 
> They have absolutely knocked it away with the features packed in here. Adjustable electronic shutter FPS, *anti-flicker up to 24 FPS!!!*, new "optical viewfinder simulation" hdr viewfinder mode, light-up buttons from the 1DX3, 1/64,000th shutterspeed, electronic shutter to 30 second exposures, unlimited video record times, new white balance, tons of new daily use upgrades, this is absolutely everything I wanted.
> 
> I pray that 6:04 a.m. still gets me one in November.. Was on B&H trying to order, but they really messed me up by not allowing me to put it in the cart for some reason.


Hope you are in the first batch. FWIW, it's 7:07am and I'm still unable to add anything to my cart at B&H.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 14, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> I pray that 6:04 a.m. still gets me one in November..


I was up late and off-and-on all night with a sick child (fortunately COVID-negative), but was asleep at 6am so I didn’t get my order in with B&H until 6:47a.

When I preordered the 1D X (also B&H) it was a couple of hours after they went live, and I still got it n the first batch that shipped.

No idea what stock levels will be like by then, but I suspect $6K bodies don’t get all that many preorders, and it’s still quite early in most of the country.


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## Maximilian (Sep 14, 2021)

5.999,- € price in Germany at several stores. (incl. VAT)


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## mdcmdcmdc (Sep 14, 2021)

Alan B said:


> Can someone please explain to me about this(below in the black parts) ?
> 
> (from description on Wex)
> 
> ...


“Effective” is what you get in your images.

Sensors have more pixels than that which aren’t exposed to light. These are used to establish black levels and estimate noise.


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## Andy Westwood (Sep 14, 2021)

It’s a long time since we have been able to say this about a Canon body but the Canon EOS R3 is

"A GAME CHANGER"


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## Dockland (Sep 14, 2021)

The "Eye Control AF" seems nice. Does it work both when using the display and the viewfinder?


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## sanj (Sep 14, 2021)

I changed my mind. I am buying.


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## Dockland (Sep 14, 2021)

Seems like a great camera overall. 
If it only had +45 MP it would be a no brainer for me.


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## Rocksthaman (Sep 14, 2021)

The damage is done. I can rest easy now


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## sulla (Sep 14, 2021)

Looking great! 6000 EUR is steep though. I like the small speed-lite transmitter. The networking features are great. But I'm missing GPS...


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## Chaitanya (Sep 14, 2021)

Thats an impressive beast.


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## sulla (Sep 14, 2021)

and the best feature: DIRECT PRINTING IS *NOT *SUPPORTED !!!


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## maulanawale (Sep 14, 2021)

I'm happy to see the first reviews talking about and mostly praising the eye controlled AF.
Everything else I'm certain will be at least excellent.

Hopefully all of you in the "pre-order" gang can get it soon enough and start sharing your impressions (please?)


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## rbielefeld (Sep 14, 2021)

sulla said:


> Looking great! 6000 EUR is steep though. I like the small speed-lite transmitter. The networking features are great. But I'm missing GPS...


Once review I just watched stated it has a GPS.


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## FrenchFry (Sep 14, 2021)

rbielefeld said:


> Once review I just watched stated it has a GPS.


Looks like it is in the spec list posted by Nokishita:










EOS R3 TECHNICAL SPECIFICATIONS.pdf







drive.google.com


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## JamesG25 (Sep 14, 2021)

The EOSR3 looking to be a monster of an Action Stills Camera. Got my pre-order in at B&H at 6:18ET so hopefully get in one of the early delivered batches.


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## David - Sydney (Sep 14, 2021)

Can you remap the Rate button to something useful?  
Otherwise it looks great!


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## BuffaloBird (Sep 14, 2021)

Andy Westwood said:


> It’s a long time since we have been able to say this about a Canon body but the Canon EOS R3 is
> 
> "A GAME CHANGER"


Yes, a bit over a year!


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## sulla (Sep 14, 2021)

rbielefeld said:


> Once review I just watched stated it has a GPS.


OK, even better then. The Canon USA website for the technical specifications of the R3





Canon Mirrorless Cameras: EOS | Canon U.S.A, Inc.


Shop our selection of Mirrorless Cameras. Explore specs, colors, and more from Shop Canon Business U.S.A., Inc. to find the right product for you.




www.usa.canon.com




doesn't mention it...


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## FrenchFry (Sep 14, 2021)

What is the "Resolution Trick"?

Inquiring minds want to know.


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## yeahright (Sep 14, 2021)

sulla said:


> OK, even better then. The Canon USA website for the technical specifications of the R3
> 
> 
> 
> ...


it does, under features / enhanced connectivity:

The built in GPS (compatible with GLONASS and QZSS) streamlines the photography and videography workflow by tagging files with GPS location coordinates and accurate camera timestamp metadata making file and chronological organization easier.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 14, 2021)

FrenchFry said:


> What is the "Resolution Trick"?
> 
> Inquiring minds want to know.


An inaccurate rumor, apparently.


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## FrenchFry (Sep 14, 2021)

Canon Europe is confirming that the R3 is the first camera that leverages the Dual Power AF in the RF 400mm F2.8 and RF 600mm F4. I am really looking forward to seeing reviews that show whether or not there are noticeable AF speed improvements compared to the R5 with these lenses. 

Also, this is another reason why seeing more RF big whites released will be very exciting, compared to adapting old EF lenses without dual power AF. 


"Mike Burnhill, Professional Imaging Product Specialist at Canon Europe, explains that the enhanced autofocus speed with the Canon EOS R3 is down to Dual Power AF. "These two super-telephoto lenses are the first to need the dual power supply," he says. "The optical groups in these lenses are much larger than those used in other lenses, so we drive them with large, high-torque, ring-type USM motors. There are actually two power inputs into these motors. The more power you feed into the motor, the faster it turns, and therefore the faster the autofocus speed can be."

The Canon EOS R3 is the first EOS R System camera that can take full advantage of lenses with Dual Power AF, thanks to its more powerful LP-E19 battery pack. "You need more voltage to drive the motor, which would have had too much impact on the battery life of earlier EOS R System bodies," explains Mike."






EOS R3 and super-telephoto RF lenses - Canon Europe


Vladimir Rys tested the Canon EOS R3 and the Canon RF 400mm F2.8L IS USM and RF 600mm F4L IS USM super-telephoto lenses on a fast-moving rally car shoot.




www.canon-europe.com


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## [email protected] (Sep 14, 2021)

FrenchFry said:


> What is the "Resolution Trick"?
> 
> Inquiring minds want to know.



The resolution trick is that - faced with "pros" willing to compromise to a lower resolution - everyone else compromises their requirements too and pre-orders.


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## unfocused (Sep 14, 2021)

Did I miss this or does the press release not include the standard language on expected availability?


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 14, 2021)

unfocused said:


> Did I miss this or does the press release not include the standard language on expected availability?


Late November. Amazon pre-orders reportedly indicated a ship date of November 30.


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## unfocused (Sep 14, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> Late November. Amazon pre-orders reportedly indicated a ship date of November 30.


Thanks. I did realize after posting that the release says November with no date attached.


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## [email protected] (Sep 14, 2021)

Made a list of the things we're finding from the reviews that we didn't know from the rumors and leaked specs. It's a growing list...









Canon Launched R3 This a.m., with a (very) Few Surprises - Camnostic


Here’s what we didn’t know: – Canon removed the 30 minute internal video recording limit. – The standard 4k mode of the R3 is downsampled 6k video, and this just about matches the quality of the R5’s “HQ” 4k video. – E-shutter goes to 1/64,000th of a second, for when you take a day-trip to […]




camnostic.com


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## john1970 (Sep 14, 2021)

Overall, a very solid camera for high-speed low-light photography. For me the highlights are the following:

1) 1/64000 top shutter speed with electronic shutter
2) full 14 bit files with electronic shutter at 30 fps
3) electronic shutter at three speeds of continuous shooting of 3, 15, 30 fps
4) solid high ISO noise performance
5) Assignable Q menu
6) More flexible customization
7) built-in GPS
8) Weighs almost 1 lb lighter than the 1Dx Mk3 and about 200 gram lighter than a R5 with the vertical grip attached. 
9) Better low-light AF than the 1Dx Mk3.


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## FrenchFry (Sep 14, 2021)

A comprehensive list, thanks for sharing!


[email protected] said:


> Made a list of the things we're finding from the reviews that we didn't know from the rumors and leaked specs. It's a growing list...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## FrenchFry (Sep 14, 2021)

I am so excited about the customizable Q menu!
Been hopping between the different reviews. Would you mind sharing where you saw this?


john1970 said:


> Overall, a very solid camera for high-speed low-light photography. For me the highlights are 1) 1/64000 top shutter speed with electronic shutter, 2) full 14 bit files with electronic shutter, 3) electronic shutter at three speeds of continuous shooting of 3, 15, 30 fps, 4) solid high ISO noise performance, 5) Assignable Q menu, 6) More flexible customization, 7) built-in GPS, 8) Weighs almost 1 lb lighter than the 1Dx Mk3, 9) Better low-light AF than the 1Dx Mk3.


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## Bishop80 (Sep 14, 2021)

When I first saw the Eye Control part of the "Officially Introducing..." video, I initially thought the man was wearing a clear face shield with a heads-up display, and that this contraption would be required to use the Eye AF! Glad that's not the case! I immediately pictured myself on the sidelines looking like some techy photo nerd getting unwanted attention (enough of that already).


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## john1970 (Sep 14, 2021)

FrenchFry said:


> I am so excited about the customizable Q menu!
> Been hopping between the different reviews. Would you mind sharing where you saw this?


I saw it this morning on froknowsphoto.com review towards the end of the review.


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## Emyr Evans (Sep 14, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> An inaccurate rumor, apparently.


Or one for the R1.... 21/84MP?


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## H. Jones (Sep 14, 2021)

On a second note, despite the new "adapter," the R3 can natively use any hotshoe mounted flash like all previous cameras before it.

The adapter exists to adapt the weathersealing to a weathersealed speedlite like the EL-1 and 600EX-RT. Because of the new, bigger shoe, the rubber gasket of those flashes doesn't fix to the shoe like it does on previous cameras. The $40 adapter is only for those who want to continue to have full weather sealing with these flashes.

I still bought one for the rare event I am shooting in the rain and need a flash. I'm interested to know if the weatherseal is "complete" with just the adapter mounted, as the EOS-1 series never required a cover on the hotshoe to complete the seal. If so, I will probably leave the adapter on all the time.


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## DBounce (Sep 14, 2021)

I ordered at 6am… Won’t ship till the end of November. That’s fine with me. The Leica M11 is rumored to be announced on November 11th… might be a busy month for my bank account camera wise:-D


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## [email protected] (Sep 14, 2021)

Beautiful release a Sonychunnelbeater for sure.


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## John Wilde (Sep 14, 2021)




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## neuroanatomist (Sep 14, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> On a second note, despite the new "adapter," the R3 can natively use any hotshoe mounted flash like all previous cameras before it.
> 
> The adapter exists to adapt the weathersealing to a weathersealed speedlite like the EL-1 and 600EX-RT. Because of the new, bigger shoe, the rubber gasket of those flashes doesn't fix to the shoe like it does on previous cameras. The $40 adapter is only for those who want to continue to have full weather sealing with these flashes.
> 
> I still bought one for the rare event I am shooting in the rain and need a flash. I'm interested to know if the weatherseal is "complete" with just the adapter mounted, as the EOS-1 series never required a cover on the hotshoe to complete the seal. If so, I will probably leave the adapter on all the time.


I missed that bit. I was presuming the gasket blocked proper mounting to the new shoe. Did some video reviewer demonstrate mounting a 600EX or EL-1 on the R3 and have it fire? If it’s only the weather sealing, that’s great.


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## bbasiaga (Sep 14, 2021)

Looks like the devil was in the details on this one....the 'underwhelming' press release (as declared by some on the internet) that came out last night didn't cover a lot of the important specs that really set this camera apart. I was never in the income range that could reasonably afford this camera, but I am still excited to see all it can do. Hopefully some of this will trickle down to the R5 and R6 IIs. 

Brian


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## Skyscraperfan (Sep 14, 2021)

The article is only in German, but Canon confirmed today that the R3 will be shown at the "Photopia" in Hamburg next week. 





Unschlagbar in jeder Disziplin: Canon stellt die EOS R3 offiziell vor und zeigt sie erstmalig auf der PHOTOPIA in Hamburg., Canon Deutschland GmbH, Pressemitteilung - PresseBox


Canon Deutschland GmbH, • Erstmalig erlebbar auf dem Canon Stand in Halle A4 auf der PHOTOPIA in Hamburg vom 23.9.-26.9.2021. • Neuer, von Canon…




www.pressebox.de


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## FrenchFry (Sep 14, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> On a second note, despite the new "adapter," the R3 can natively use any hotshoe mounted flash like all previous cameras before it.
> 
> The adapter exists to adapt the weathersealing to a weathersealed speedlite like the EL-1 and 600EX-RT. Because of the new, bigger shoe, the rubber gasket of those flashes doesn't fix to the shoe like it does on previous cameras. The $40 adapter is only for those who want to continue to have full weather sealing with these flashes.
> 
> I still bought one for the rare event I am shooting in the rain and need a flash. I'm interested to know if the weatherseal is "complete" with just the adapter mounted, as the EOS-1 series never required a cover on the hotshoe to complete the seal. If so, I will probably leave the adapter on all the time.


Is the weather-sealing rubber gasket on the flashes removable? Otherwise how can you get these speedlites to work when Canon says they don't?


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## SereneSpeed (Sep 14, 2021)

I really hope there's a market for a higher MP, slower framrate version of this. I can't be the only studio photographer that wants a full size body, can I?


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## Skyscraperfan (Sep 14, 2021)

SereneSpeed said:


> I really hope there's a market for a higher MP, slower framrate version of this. I can't be the only studio photographer that wants a full size body, can I?


Yes, that is something I never understood. Why does Canon always restrict intergrated grips to sports cameras? If I spend thousands of Euros on any kind of camera, I want it to have a grip built in instead of an optional battery grip that costs another 400 Euros and does not align properly. Especially in a studio there is no advantage of a camera being compact. 

I wish Canon would offer the R5 and R6 with a built in grip for maybe 600 Euros more.


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## sanj (Sep 14, 2021)

Dockland said:


> Seems like a great camera overall.
> If it only had +45 MP it would be a no brainer for me.


I wish the same. But buying.


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## jayphotoworks (Sep 14, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> Yes, that is something I never understood. Why does Canon always restrict intergrated grips to sports cameras? If I spend thousands of Euros on any kind of camera, I want it to have a grip built in instead of an optional battery grip that costs another 400 Euros and does not align properly. Especially in a studio there is no advantage of a camera being compact.
> 
> I wish Canon would offer the R5 and R6 with a built in grip for maybe 600 Euros more.



Companies decide their own strategies behind how they offer their cameras. Canon have always offered their pro flagships with an integrated grip and Nikon is the same way. The rest of the line-up are always offered with a separate battery grip.

Sony OTOH doesn't offer integrated grips on their flagships. Just as you shoot mainly in the studio, I shoot mainly video on location, and not having an integrated grip substantially reduces the weight and center of gravity I need to balance when shooting on a gimbal or crane or slider, etc. But obviously that means that if I need to grip the body, it is nowhere as robust in inclement weather as a gripped body like the R3.


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## jayphotoworks (Sep 14, 2021)

The biggest thing for video folks is the R3's hotshoe pins like Sony's multi interface shoe. All future Canon MILC bodies will probably have this as well. It is convenient to be able to use audio accessories without running 3.5mm cables or supplying extra power to the accessories. But the biggest issue for new R3 owners will be constantly losing those damn hot shoe caps on the body and flash to protect those pins.


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## photoenix (Sep 14, 2021)

Having no 3rd strap lug is an absolute deal breaker for me. I was considering buying the R3 but I can't live without my hand strap.


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## rbielefeld (Sep 14, 2021)

jayphotoworks said:


> The biggest thing for video folks is the R3's hotshoe pins like Sony's multi interface shoe. All future Canon MILC bodies will probably have this as well. It is convenient to be able to use audio accessories without running 3.5mm cables or supplying extra power to the accessories. But the biggest issue for new R3 owners will be constantly losing those damn hot shoe caps on the body and flash to protect those pins.


Just another income stream from people who need replacements. I mean, just look at how many different Canon lens caps now exist. If you shoot EF and RF lenses and teleconverters it is ridiculous. I hate trying to find the right cap in the dark or when it is raining and almost never having the correct one handy. Canon, I know you can make caps that fit both EF and RF TCs and lenses and reduce the number.


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## Billybob (Sep 14, 2021)

john1970 said:


> I also like that it is full 14-bit files at 30 fps. No 12-bit BS!! Preorder through B&H at 6:00 am this morning


I wonder how many are pre-ordering from B&H using their PayBoo card. This is my first time placing a large order since retailers have started collecting taxes from Florida purchasers. For me, with a $420 hit and a tight budget, B&H seemed to be the only option.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 14, 2021)

photoenix said:


> Having no 3rd strap lug is an absolute deal breaker for me. I was considering buying the R3 but I can't live without my hand strap.


That is unfortunate, didn’t know that. Love my E1 hand strap.

I had emailed RRS a while back to see if they’re planning an R3 plate. They said they’re discussing it (pretty sure they will, ideally modular). I just emailed them to request they include a hand strap lug on the camera plate to replace the one Canon omitted.

Edit: they responded pretty much immediately that it was a good idea and they’d take it under consideration. Nice, but I don’t read too much into that with any company.


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## Billybob (Sep 14, 2021)

john1970 said:


> Overall, a very solid camera for high-speed low-light photography. For me the highlights are the following:
> 
> 1) 1/64000 top shutter speed with electronic shutter
> 2) full 14 bit files with electronic shutter at 30 fps
> ...


Personally, I'd like 20fps as well, but this is a minor quibble. With these options, I doubt that I'll ever use mechanical shutter.


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## john1970 (Sep 14, 2021)

Billybob said:


> Personally, I'd like to 20fps as well, but this is a minor quibble. With these options, I doubt that I'll ever use mechanical shutter.


Exactly. I honestly see no use for the mechanical shutter except to cover the sensor when I change lenses. The electronic shutter works at 1, 3, 15, 30 fps. I also would have liked 5, 10, 15, ,20, 30 fps as options, but 3, 15, 30 fps is fine as well. Maybe a firmware update can add more options or maybe fps flexibility will be reserved for the R1.


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## kaihp (Sep 14, 2021)

FrenchFry said:


> Looks like it is in the spec list posted by Nokishita:
> View attachment 200189
> 
> 
> ...


Saw a video posted on IG with a DK Canon representative where it said is is a 3-system GNSS receiver. It did not say which GNSS system that wasn't supported, but if I had to guess, I'd say Beidou, as it is primarily designed to cover China, not as a world-wide system.


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## researcher (Sep 14, 2021)

Quackator said:


> And now the billion dollar question: Flash with electronic shutter - is it global shutter or does it only sync to HSS flashes?


I'm guessing no, not yet. I think global shutter would be one of those screaming features they would publicize in all caps. And this quote from Petapixel:
"Canon says that the readout speed of the sensor is so good that there is minimum rolling electronic shutter distortion. The EOS R3 can support flash sync with its electronic shutter at up to 1/180 second at up to 15 frames per second."


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 14, 2021)

researcher said:


> The EOS R3 can support flash sync with its electronic shutter at up to 1/180 second at up to 15 frames per second."


Wow, that’s going to drain a flash capacitor fast. Maybe needs the EL-1’s ultra low power ‘microflash’, and to get enough light for a real flash you need to gang several of them. A $4000 flash rig to go with your $6000 camera. Smart Canon!


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## kaihp (Sep 14, 2021)

researcher said:


> I'm guessing no, not yet. I think global shutter would be one of those screaming features they would publicize in all caps. And this quote from Petapixel:
> "Canon says that the readout speed of the sensor is so good that there is minimum rolling electronic shutter distortion. The EOS R3 can support flash sync with its electronic shutter at up to 1/180 second at up to 15 frames per second."


From https://www.canon-europe.com/cameras/eos-r3/specifications/

X-Sync
1/200sec mechanical shutter / 1/250th electronic 1st curtain, 1/180sec Electronic shutter


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## Click (Sep 14, 2021)

$7999 in Canada


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## Cyborx (Sep 14, 2021)

Canon can make all the fuzz they want, but this is an R6 with an inbuilt battery grip. For 6000 euro’s. No way I am buying it.


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## m4ndr4ke (Sep 14, 2021)

€6549 at Canon Portugal’s official online store

€6399 at a local photography retailer

wth…


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 14, 2021)

Cyborx said:


> Canon can make all the fuzz they want, but this is an R6 with an inbuilt battery grip. For 6000 euro’s. No way I am buying it.


Are you sure about that? Please be clear. Looking over your posts, your views on the R3 seem ambiguous.


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## kaihp (Sep 14, 2021)

Ouch! the LP-E19 will only last 30% of the shots on the R3 vs the 1Dx Mk III:





Specifications & Features - Canon EOS R3 - Canon Europe


The EOS R3 full-frame professional mirrorless camera is designed to meet the demands of professional sports photographers with high reliability and durability.




www.canon-europe.com




Battery Life: With LCD Approx.860 shots (at 23°C)





Specifications & Features - EOS-1D X Mark III - Canon Europe


Pursue Perfection with the EOS-1D X Mark III - Canon's most advanced DSLR ever.




www.canon-europe.com




Battery life: Viewfinder shooting Approx. 2850 (at 20°C)

I was thinking I could easily get away with not getting a 2nd battery, since I never chewed through a full charge on my aging 1Dx. Guess I need a Battery #2 anyway.


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## Joules (Sep 14, 2021)

Cyborx said:


> Canon can make all the fuzz they want, but this is an R6 with an inbuilt battery grip. For 6000 euro’s. No way I am buying it.


Repeating a statement doesn't make it true. Unless you know something I don't. 

I'd love to get rich by just stating I am often enough, let me know if you've had success with that


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## Deleted member 381342 (Sep 14, 2021)

Cyborx said:


> Canon can make all the fuzz they want, but this is an R6 with an inbuilt battery grip. For 6000 euro’s. No way I am buying it.



The R6 is nothing like the R3, it’s not even in remotely the same league. We need to wait for the Nikon Z9 before we’ll see competition for the R3, until then it sits on on a lonely throne with nothing else coming close.


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## Andy Westwood (Sep 14, 2021)

Lots of cool videos on You Tube re today's announcements but this short movie is worth a quick look

Canon EOS R3 Hands-on Review + New Lenses


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## HurtinMinorKey (Sep 14, 2021)

Is the electronic shutter global? I expect not.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Sep 14, 2021)

Andy Westwood said:


> Lots of cool videos on You Tube re today's announcements but this short movie is worth a quick look
> 
> Canon EOS R3 Hands-on Review + New Lenses



I would like my five minutes back. What a sinfully boring video that tells us absolutely nothing.


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## Talys (Sep 14, 2021)

john1970 said:


> 8) Weighs almost 1 lb lighter than the 1Dx Mk3 and about 200 gram lighter than a R5 with the vertical grip attached.


That one is pretty cool!


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## perplex1 (Sep 14, 2021)

Billybob said:


> I wonder how many are pre-ordering from B&H using their PayBoo card. This is my first time placing a large order since retailers have started collecting taxes from Florida purchasers. For me, with a $420 hit and a tight budget, B&H seemed to be the only option.


just make sure you pay off before they slap on the interest. that's how they get you with that

or you can find smaller retailers that operate out of specific states but have online presence and don't charge tax. like bedford camera or texas media systems


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## Jonathan Thill (Sep 14, 2021)

Click said:


> $7999 in Canada


Which is absolutely $500 more then it should be. I'm having a harder time justifying this Camera than I thought I would and this CDN price really turns me off. 

Mostly meaningless numbers: 

A9II with Extra Battery and Grip = $7443.52 after taxes in BC
EOS R3 = $8958.88
$1515 more than the A9II 

A1 with Extra Battery and Grip = $10243.52
$1285 more than the R3

I am the biggest fan of Canon² and I am sure I will breakdown and order the R3 but DAMN on the surface I'm really not sure the R3 is $1515 better than the offering from Sony for this application. 

There is a lot to love with the R3 and I am looking forward to reading more about it but the sticker shock is hard on this one. I really think it $500 CDN to much. 

² - love me R5 and R6 and the RF glass is amazing


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## unfocused (Sep 14, 2021)

Dang! There was so much publicity about the latest iPhone that I completely missed this.


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## Czardoom (Sep 14, 2021)

unfocused said:


> Dang! There was so much publicity about the latest iPhone that I completely missed this.


Best post of the day! Thank you!


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## jayphotoworks (Sep 14, 2021)

Ramage said:


> Which is absolutely $500 more then it should be. I'm having a harder time justifying this Camera than I thought I would and this CDN price really turns me off.
> 
> Mostly meaningless numbers:
> 
> ...


I don't think the pricing is really comparable between Canon and Sony. In the past Canon was always more money, but when the A1 was released, it was priced through the roof. But at the end of the day, it isn't like you can just switch systems because of $500, so if you need the functionality and already have the lenses, you don't have many options.


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## Skyscraperfan (Sep 14, 2021)

Wow, the R3 for 1 Cent. I think I will buy five: https://www.photouniversal.de/gelegenheiten/aktionen/canon-aktionen/canon-eos-r3-html/


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## john1970 (Sep 14, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> That is unfortunate, didn’t know that. Love my E1 hand strap.
> 
> I had emailed RRS a while back to see if they’re planning an R3 plate. They said they’re discussing it (pretty sure they will, ideally modular). I just emailed them to request they include a hand strap lug on the camera plate to replace the one Canon omitted.
> 
> Edit: they responded pretty much immediately that it was a good idea and they’d take it under consideration. Nice, but I don’t read too much into that with any company.


A Kirkphoto PZ-17 plate has a strap lug and cost around 55 USD. Might be an economical solution. I also use s strap for the camera, but guess going fwd I will attach it to the plate.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 14, 2021)

john1970 said:


> A Kirkphoto PZ-17 plate has a strap lug and cost around 55 USD. Might be an economical solution. I also use s strap for the camera, but guess going fwd I will attach it to the plate.


I usually use an L-bracket instead of just a camera plate (which is why I really like RRS’ modular design, where the upright bolts onto the base plate with a hex key that stores in the base plate itself).


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## entoman (Sep 14, 2021)

3 killer points for me:

Electronic shutter at 30fps, 15fps and 3fps - I really hope this comes soon to the R5 as a firmware update (20/10/3fps would be nice).
Eye-control AF point selection - a real game changer if it works well.
Subject tracking in all AF modes - a major improvement over standard Face & tracking AF.
I would have preferred 45MP, as I like to leave space around the subject at the time of shooting, which gives me multiple cropping options.

Can anyone confirm whether exposure bracketing is possible with electronic shutter in burst mode (which it isn't with the R5) ?

If I had different priorities for my money and was going to spend this much on a camera, it would still be a very hard choice between the R3 and the 1Dxiii...


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## Deleted member 381342 (Sep 14, 2021)

This’ll be my camera if Nikon bugger up the Z9. My 70-200 and 500 will go a long way on trade in towards the 100-500 and a 70-200 fatty. Just a shame the R3 has a SD slot, I was hoping for some redundancy as I have quite a lot of CF Express cards and have no plans to pay the for ridiculously overpriced SD cards.


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## SteveC (Sep 14, 2021)

Emyr Evans said:


> Or one for the R1.... 21/84MP?


I don't know if it was ever in one of the rumors.

A lot of people were speculating.


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## H. Jones (Sep 14, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> I missed that bit. I was presuming the gasket blocked proper mounting to the new shoe. Did some video reviewer demonstrate mounting a 600EX or EL-1 on the R3 and have it fire? If it’s only the weather sealing, that’s great.





FrenchFry said:


> Is the weather-sealing rubber gasket on the flashes removable? Otherwise how can you get these speedlites to work when Canon says they don't?



It wasn't demonstrated, but in multiple of the videos I watched this morning, they described that any current speedlite can mount to the new hotshoe, but because the hotshoe is longer than a normal hotshoe, weather-sealed speedlites leave a gap towards the front of the shoe, which would allow rain in. 

It was described as the adapter gives the full, regular canon hotshoe with the ridges needed for the gaskets to seal, so the adapter is only for the people who want the 1d series weather sealing with a flash attached. 

You can remove the gaskets on any of the speedlites, but I don't believe you will have to remove them to mount it. It just wont make a solid seal.


entoman said:


> Can anyone confirm whether exposure bracketing is possible with electronic shutter in burst mode (which it isn't with the R5) ?
> 
> If I had different priorities for my money and was going to spend this much on a camera, it would still be a very hard choice between the R3 and the 1Dxiii...


The camera's default shutter mode is electronic shutter, so I think it's safe to assume any feature, especially one that has a physical button on the camera for it, will work on the electronic shutter mode.

One of the videos did appear to show them using the AEB button while it was still in electronic shutter mode, fortunately

The big question mark for me is dynamic range in electronic shutter, but I'm not as worried considering that my R5 can do my landscape and high dynamic range work.


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## rbielefeld (Sep 14, 2021)

entoman said:


> 3 killer points for me:
> 
> Electronic shutter at 30fps, 15fps and 3fps - I really hope this comes soon to the R5 as a firmware update (20/10/3fps would be nice).
> Eye-control AF point selection - a real game changer if it works well.
> ...


I agree with all your points. Subject tracking in all modes is the way to go versus what is available in the R5. Another big factor for me is the smaller and lighter form factor of the R3 over the 1DxIII. I have small hands and holding a 1Dx all day really does a number on my right hand. I think the R3 strikes a nice balance of being smaller but still having the integrated grip.


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## InchMetric (Sep 14, 2021)

FrenchFry said:


> Canon Europe is confirming that the R3 is the first camera that leverages the Dual Power AF in the RF 400mm F2.8 and RF 600mm F4. I am really looking forward to seeing reviews that show whether or not there are noticeable AF speed improvements compared to the R5 with these lenses.





john1970 said:


> 8) Weighs almost 1 lb lighter than the 1Dx Mk3 and about 200 gram lighter than a R5 with the vertical grip attached.


The first might silence those who bemoan that the RF400 “isn’t new enough!”

The second will win me to R5 resolution and performance in the R3 package. I’m not looking for a heavy R1 just to get integrated vertical grip.

Speculation probably echoing others: The R3 is the speedy sports flagship and another (R2?) could be the hi res model in the same package without the speed (upgraded R5).


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## InchMetric (Sep 14, 2021)

Billybob said:


> I wonder how many are pre-ordering from B&H using their PayBoo card. This is my first time placing a large order since retailers have started collecting taxes from Florida purchasers. For me, with a $420 hit and a tight budget, B&H seemed to be the only option.


Same. Challenge was bumping up the limit to get an R5 and lens between ordering and bill/ship.


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## Nemorino (Sep 14, 2021)

Interesting the medical division helped developing the eye control:






Using Eye Control AF - Canon Europe


Find out all about the amazing Eye Control AF feature of the Canon EOS R3, which can set or switch the AF point by detecting what you're looking at.




www.canon-europe.com







> Since that time Canon's Medical Systems division, which specialises in medical imaging, has developed a range of technologies for scanning eyes to produce Purkinje images. Like a fingerprint for eyes, these images enable doctors and opticians to diagnose problems, but the information gained has also given Canon's Photo Division a better understanding of what eyes look like. In turn, this has informed the development of Eye Control AF.


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## Nemorino (Sep 14, 2021)

InchMetric said:


> The first might silence those who bemoan that the RF400 “isn’t new enough!”


And proof the RF is more then a EF 400 with glued adapter. The electronics of the RF mount are a big advantage.


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## entoman (Sep 14, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> The camera's default shutter mode is electronic shutter, so I think it's safe to assume any feature, especially one that has a physical button on the camera for it, will work on the electronic shutter mode.


Hmmm, I made the mistake of assuming that it would be possible on the R5 to shoot a bracketed series of exposures with electronic shutter - I took it for granted that Canon would do this, as it's such an obvious feature to include. But on the R5 it *isn't* possible, so I'll be very interested to learn whether it can be done on the R3, from someone who has actually used the camera.

One thing I've learnt is that when it comes to Canon, never assume anything 

I'll also be interested to learn whether Canon have reduced the start-up lag on the EVF, as with the R5 there is an irritating delay.

That said, the R3 looks like an absolutely fabulous machine and I admit to be drooling all over it...


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## definedphotography (Sep 14, 2021)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> Is the electronic shutter global? I expect not.


No, and it was never claimed to be.

It should be a lot quicker than the R5 & R6 readout though, so less distortion in electronic shutter/video modes


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## Bishop80 (Sep 14, 2021)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> Is the electronic shutter global? I expect not.


"The rolling shutter distortion is reduced to about 1/4 of that of the EOS-1D X Mark III in electronic shutter mode."


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## entoman (Sep 14, 2021)

Dockland said:


> The "Eye Control AF" seems nice. Does it work both when using the display and the viewfinder?


It only works when using the EVF. The sensors that detect where your eyes are looking, are within the EVF housing.


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## JamesG25 (Sep 15, 2021)

Billybob said:


> I wonder how many are pre-ordering from B&H using their PayBoo card. This is my first time placing a large order since retailers have started collecting taxes from Florida purchasers. For me, with a $420 hit and a tight budget, B&H seemed to be the only option.


Yep… this time I bought from B&H with PayBoo. 1st body I have ever purchased from B&H. The sales tax back made it the only purchase option I consider.


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## navastronia (Sep 15, 2021)

john1970 said:


> Overall, a very solid camera for high-speed low-light photography. For me the highlights are the following:
> 
> 1) 1/64000 top shutter speed with electronic shutter
> 2) full 14 bit files with electronic shutter at 30 fps
> ...



Thank you so much for this. Do we know of any compromises when using the electronic shutter instead of the mechanical shutter aside from skewed lines thanks to the sensor readout speed (in some instances)? Given e-shutter files are 14-bit, I don't know of any. There shouldn't be any EFCS bokeh issues, since EFCS isn't active in e-shutter mode . . . I think . . .


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## fox40phil (Sep 15, 2021)

sulla said:


> Looking great! 6000 EUR is steep though. I like the small speed-lite transmitter. The networking features are great. But I'm missing GPS...


gps is there!


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## ConanRumours (Sep 15, 2021)

john1970 said:


> I also like that it is full 14-bit files at 30 fps. No 12-bit BS!! Preorder through B&H at 6:00 am this morning


But 24mp BS! this camera just caught up to the A9II, except it has worse battery life. Wildlife photographers will continue to use the r5, the r3 is only good for sports shooters. Ok camera, but nothing ground-breaking (the eye AF tracking is not as revolutionary as eye AF)


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## ConanRumours (Sep 15, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> An inaccurate rumor, apparently.


Allow me to explain, the resolution trick consists in shooting your subject with an A1 and editing the metadata so that it reads it was taken with a canon r3!


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## Jack Douglas (Sep 15, 2021)

ConanRumours said:


> Allow me to explain, the resolution trick consists in shooting your subject with an A1 and editing the metadata so that it reads it was taken with a canon r3!


So you joined Aug 11 and have nothing useful to contribute. Why join?


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## Deleted member 381342 (Sep 15, 2021)

ConanRumours said:


> But 24mp BS! this camera just caught up to the A9II, except it has worse battery life. Wildlife photographers will continue to use the r5, the r3 is only good for sports shooters. Ok camera, but nothing ground-breaking (the eye AF tracking is not as revolutionary as eye AF)



You do know that many pro wildlife shooters and enthusiasts are using the Canon 1Dx line and the Nikon D4 to D6. Of late the most popular are the R6 and Z6. High MP bodies aren’t the be all and end all as not everyone crops.


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## Skyscraperfan (Sep 15, 2021)

The reviews suggest that the EVF of the R3 looks MUCH better than the EVF of the R5 at low light. The really had problems at low light. If ISO is over 3200, the EVF switched to a lower frame rate. The "OVF simulation" of the R3 seems to do a much better job at low light. That would be very important for me, as I take a lot of photos in the blue hour.


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## PerKr (Sep 15, 2021)

kaihp said:


> Ouch! the LP-E19 will only last 30% of the shots on the R3 vs the 1Dx Mk III:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Don't worry about it. If it worked that way, those using the R3 for the olympics would not be pleased.
Battery life was mentioned in a review I saw this morning. Can't remember who it was but it was a lady bringing the R3 to what looked like a trackday. I think she was at 4000 shots and the battery had gone down one of four bars and she mentioned that the standard calls for excessive power cycles and time spent reviewing images on the back screen.


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## PerKr (Sep 15, 2021)

Price in Sweden came in a positive surprise;

1Dx - 87kSEK
Sony A1 - 77kSEK
*R3 - 65kSEK*
Sony A9II - 48kSEK

Yes, prices here are ridiculous but at least Canon didn't shaft us this time. The Sony A1 is really questionable at its pricepoint but then so is the 1Dx (at approximately $10k)


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## kaihp (Sep 15, 2021)

PerKr said:


> Don't worry about it. If it worked that way, those using the R3 for the olympics would not be pleased.
> Battery life was mentioned in a review I saw this morning. Can't remember who it was but it was a lady bringing the R3 to what looked like a trackday. I think she was at 4000 shots and the battery had gone down one of four bars and she mentioned that the standard calls for excessive power cycles and time spent reviewing images on the back screen.


Thanks for the info.

After posting that, I saw Gordon Laing's said in his review that he got 2000+ shot out of the battery. So it'clearly s less of an issue than the test method claims it to be. I would be taking the R3 to trackdays/racing where you need to restrain yourself just to take "only" 2500+ shots (imagine 60+ riders circulating on the track in 3-4 groups for 5-7 hours). With 30fps and a bit of spray-and-pray I think you could easily double or even quadruple that number. Then you'd have the luxury problem of having to wade through lots of good pictures to find the truly _great_ ones.

I guess the test method includes a significant amount of chimping


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## kaihp (Sep 15, 2021)

PerKr said:


> Price in Sweden came in a positive surprise;
> 
> 1Dx - 87kSEK
> Sony A1 - 77kSEK
> ...


The 65K SEK seems in line with the 48.295 DKK (=65.880 SEK). With the €6100 indication, I had expected 49.500DKK (67.500SEK).
Minor positive suprise, yes.


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## koenkooi (Sep 15, 2021)

PerKr said:


> Don't worry about it. If it worked that way, those using the R3 for the olympics would not be pleased.
> Battery life was mentioned in a review I saw this morning. Can't remember who it was but it was a lady bringing the R3 to what looked like a trackday. I think she was at 4000 shots and the battery had gone down one of four bars and she mentioned that the standard calls for excessive power cycles and time spent reviewing images on the back screen.


Yes, the CIPA ratings for battery life include reviewing shots and on models with built-in flash, using that flash. It is meant to simulate an average day of use. If you hold down the shutter at 30fps you'll get *a lot* of shots on a single charge with a big enough CFe card.

So far I can get "half a day" out of a battery on the RP and the R5, but that decreases when using lenses with powerfull IS like the 100-500. Last weekend I did 700 shots in 3 hours and had about 50% left on the R5, using the RF100 macro and EF180 macro. It was cold enough for the tree frog to stay in place, so fewer shots in a burst. But when I do long bursts for DiF and shoot some video in between I can empty out a battery in an hour or so.

Canon uses CIPA procedures to rate their IS as well, hence the gazillion stops reported for IS+IBIS and I still have to use 1/200s or faster for macro on the RF100L with electronic shutter


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## PerKr (Sep 15, 2021)

kaihp said:


> The 65K SEK seems in line with the 48.295 DKK (=65.880 SEK). With the €6100 indication, I had expected 49.500DKK (67.500SEK).
> Minor positive suprise, yes.



Compared to how canon priced the R5 in this market (currently at circa $5800 or $2k more than the official US launch price)... I was fully expecting the R3 to be about €8k.


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## kaihp (Sep 15, 2021)

koenkooi said:


> So far I can get "half a day" out of a battery on the RP and the R5, but that decreases when using lenses with powerfull IS like the 100-500. Last weekend I did 700 shots in 3 hours and had about 50% left on the R5, using the RF100 macro and EF180 macro. It was cold enough for the tree frog to stay in place, so fewer shots in a burst. But when I do long bursts for DiF and shoot some video in between I can empty out a battery in an hour or so.


Thanks for the datapoints. The R5 with the LP-E6NH is rated at 490 shots, so the R3 with the more powerfull LP-E19 is rated for +75% shots.
I have to consider power for the Big Whites as well (300/2.8, 200-400) so 2 batteries are probably prudent. They seem to be generally out of stock here, so I should keep an eye out for them.


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## ConanRumours (Sep 15, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> You do know that many pro wildlife shooters and enthusiasts are using the Canon 1Dx line and the Nikon D4 to D6. Of late the most popular are the R6 and Z6. High MP bodies aren’t the be all and end all as not everyone crops.


Nope, the pro wildlife photographers are using the r5 and a1 period! cropping extends your range significantly especially for wild life photography. Those still shooting with lower mp bodies are simply the old guard who refuse to embrace the advantages of high megapixel bodies or the broke amateurs.


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## FuzzyFotos (Sep 15, 2021)

I don't give a rat's ass about video and sick of paying extra for video features.. and now a new hotshoe.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 15, 2021)

ConanRumours said:


> Nope, the pro wildlife photographers are using the r5 and a1 period! cropping extends your range significantly especially for wild life photography. Those still shooting with lower mp bodies are simply the old guard who refuse to embrace the advantages of high megapixel bodies or the broke amateurs.


Lol. Thanks so very much for sharing your pithy knowledge. You may return to your troll cave now, and let the grown-ups talk.


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## JustUs7 (Sep 15, 2021)

FuzzyFotos said:


> I don't give a rat's ass about video and sick of paying extra for video features.. and now a new hotshoe.


This has been covered many times. You’re not paying for video features. The video features are the result of processors and sensors and AF that also greatly improve stills photography. It’s a matter of programming to have video features. A camera without them would be far more expensive using today’s technology.


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## Bishop80 (Sep 15, 2021)

ConanRumours said:


> Nope, the pro wildlife photographers are using the r5 and a1 period! cropping extends your range significantly especially for wild life photography. Those still shooting with lower mp bodies are simply the old guard who refuse to embrace the advantages of high megapixel bodies or the broke amateurs.


To state what is likely obvious, sweeping generalizations like that are not accurate (or well received). However, I don't know much about the pro wildlife group (sports is my thing), so I don't know what the current body breakdown across that group would be.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 15, 2021)

ConanRumours said:


> Nope, the pro wildlife photographers are using the r5 and a1 period! cropping extends your range significantly especially for wild life photography. Those still shooting with lower mp bodies are simply the old guard who refuse to embrace the advantages of high megapixel bodies or the broke amateurs.


A good wildlife photographer doesn't significantly crop, if you have to, the photo goes in the bin because you weren't close enough. Unless there is something exceptional or rare that you want proof of. I know a few PhaseOne pros that don't crop beyond something distracting on the edge of the frame or to straighten a horizon.

Why would you waste your time trying to make a good frame and then hack off a bunch of the data? That's a waste of the photographer's time and quite frankly lazy.

I'm just talking about pros, not folks that are on a tight budget and learning.


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## SteveC (Sep 15, 2021)

Jack Douglas said:


> So you joined Aug 11 and have nothing useful to contribute. Why join?



Because Sony has useful money to contribute to his bank account.


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## degos (Sep 15, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Why would you waste your time trying to make a good frame and then hack off a bunch of the data? That's a waste of the photographer's time and quite frankly lazy.
> 
> I'm just talking about pros, not folks that are on a tight budget and learning.



Because sometimes / often at 1200mm they can't fill the frame? Same at airshows nowadays with ever-increasing 'safety distances, when the closest you can get to a small fast-moving jet is 230 metres horizontally.


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## Jack Douglas (Sep 15, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> A good wildlife photographer doesn't significantly crop, if you have to, the photo goes in the bin because you weren't close enough. Unless there is something exceptional or rare that you want proof of. I know a few PhaseOne pros that don't crop beyond something distracting on the edge of the frame or to straighten a horizon.
> 
> Why would you waste your time trying to make a good frame and then hack off a bunch of the data? That's a waste of the photographer's time and quite frankly lazy.
> 
> I'm just talking about pros, not folks that are on a tight budget and learning.


I kind of already knew I wasn't a pro but now I can no longer plead ignorance. 

I've heard that the pros are so busy taking great photos that they don't have time to read CR but I don't have the scientific study to back this up.

Jack


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## jayphotoworks (Sep 15, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> A good wildlife photographer doesn't significantly crop, if you have to, the photo goes in the bin because you weren't close enough. Unless there is something exceptional or rare that you want proof of. I know a few PhaseOne pros that don't crop beyond something distracting on the edge of the frame or to straighten a horizon.
> 
> Why would you waste your time trying to make a good frame and then hack off a bunch of the data? That's a waste of the photographer's time and quite frankly lazy.
> 
> I'm just talking about pros, not folks that are on a tight budget and learning.


I'm a working pro and I crop occasionally because sometimes I'm just not in the right position at the right time. Obviously I'm not shooting with the mindset that I'm intending to crop 100%, but having that latitude does allow me to salvage some shots that would have been binned. Heck, I've even done this from time to time with 4K footage when I'm delivering 1080p. 

This year, I've found a high MP count helpful because of the pandemic with cordoned off areas due to social distancing and crowd controlled laneways at some of the events I've shot at where I was able to get slightly better composition after cropping. But it wouldn't suddenly be a deal breaker if I was working with 24MP and really hadn't been in the years prior when I only had 24MP to work with..


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## TinTin (Sep 15, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> I would like my five minutes back. What a sinfully boring video that tells us absolutely nothing.


What! Didn't you learn that, if you go to Pictureline in Salt Lake City, you can purchase an R3 off the shelf!


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## AlanF (Sep 15, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> A good wildlife photographer doesn't significantly crop, if you have to, the photo goes in the bin because you weren't close enough. Unless there is something exceptional or rare that you want proof of. I know a few PhaseOne pros that don't crop beyond something distracting on the edge of the frame or to straighten a horizon.
> 
> Why would you waste your time trying to make a good frame and then hack off a bunch of the data? That's a waste of the photographer's time and quite frankly lazy.
> 
> I'm just talking about pros, not folks that are on a tight budget and learning.


Depends on the wildlife and what it is doing. Try getting close to a bird in flight that always soars high. Small fast flying erratic birds usually have to be captured with a wide field of view because they move so fast across the view. And that’s an even greater problem with dragonflies in true flight. You have to crop like mad with such subjects. And the more pixels you can put on a small subject, the more the possibilities are available to you. On the other hand, I‘ve rarely had problems photoing giraffes and elephants.


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## Sporgon (Sep 15, 2021)

Bishop80 said:


> To state what is likely obvious, sweeping generalizations like that are not accurate (or well received). However, I don't know much about the pro wildlife group (sports is my thing), so I don't know what the current body breakdown across that group would be.


If you look at some of the most prestigious wildlife photographic completions / exhibitions it’s surprising just how much this genre of photographers don’t appear to prioritise high mp cameras as part of their gear. Clearly other specs of the equipment are more important to them.


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## mdcmdcmdc (Sep 15, 2021)

ConanRumours said:


> Nope, the pro wildlife photographers are using the r5 and a1 period!


Apologies if this is a dumb question, but just how many "pro wildlife photographers" are there? I can't imagine there could be more than about 100 people able to make a living doing that anywhere in the world. Even if it's 1000, it still seems like a pretty specialized segment.


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## AlanF (Sep 15, 2021)

Sporgon said:


> If you look at some of the most prestigious wildlife photographic completions / exhibitions it’s surprising just how much this genre of photographers don’t appear to prioritise high mp cameras as part of their gear. Clearly other specs of the equipment are more important to them.


High resolution FF sensors are relatively new, and bird photographers have often used crop until very recently to get high resolution. I checked the winners and featured photos of the large Natural History Museum contest to see the gear used. There was an eclectic mix, and the main winner used a Z7, and there were 5Dlll and 1DXII Among others. There was a significant number of 7DIIs, which are equivalent to 50 Mpx FF, including one used for a beautiful shot of a puffin in flight from @digigal who posts here. Our semi-resident pro Glenn Bartley, who specialises in small birds, has used a 7DII for many years. Both he and digigal have migrated to R5s, which might indicate something. Birders like high resolution. Others have their own priorities. Art Morris of birdsasart website and many of his associates now use high resolution FF.


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## digigal (Sep 16, 2021)

AlanF said:


> High resolution FF sensors are relatively new, and bird photographers have often used crop until very recently to get high resolution. I checked the winners and featured photos of the large Natural History Museum contest to see the gear used. There was an eclectic mix, and the main winner used a Z7, and there were 5Dlll and 1DXII Among others. There was a significant number of 7DIIs, which are equivalent to 50 Mpx FF, including one used for a beautiful shot of a puffin in flight from @digigal who posts here. Our semi-resident pro Glenn Bartley, who specialises in small birds, has used a 7DII for many years. Both he and digigal have migrated to R5s, which might indicate something. Birders like high resolution. Others have their own priorities. Art Morris of birdsasart website and many of his associates now use high resolution FF.


Unfortunately, I'm one of the old geezers who's still trying to do bird photography and it's getting harder and harder to handhold that heavy gear so I eagerly hope Canon will heed the pleas of the bird photographers requesting a crop R mount camera that has a fast and precise focusing system--I need it for the reach and the ability to use a lighter weight lens so I can still keep doing this or I'll have to cut back to larger and larger wildlife (which which I've been increasingly including).
Catherine


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## Sporgon (Sep 16, 2021)

AlanF said:


> High resolution FF sensors are relatively new,


I don’t think we can say they are ‘relatively new’ now in digital photography terms; the Sony A7R and Nikon D800 were introduced nearly ten years ago, the 5DS six years ago. If the greater ‘resolution’ - read output size in reality - was critical to wild life photographers these guys would have been all over these camera bodies yet the evidence is that they have not been.


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## SnowMiku (Sep 16, 2021)

digigal said:


> Unfortunately, I'm one of the old geezers who's still trying to do bird photography and it's getting harder and harder to handhold that heavy gear so I eagerly hope Canon will heed the pleas of the bird photographers requesting a crop R mount camera that has a fast and precise focusing system--I need it for the reach and the ability to use a lighter weight lens so I can still keep doing this or I'll have to cut back to larger and larger wildlife (which which I've been increasingly including).
> Catherine


Have you considered the 90D and the EF 70-300mm IS II as a light weight alternative? It's equivalent to 480mm which is only 20mm short of the RF 100-500mm L. The 32.5 MP sensor also helps a lot with cropping.


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## AlanF (Sep 16, 2021)

Nikon introduced the D500 for bird and nature photographers with its high density sensor


Sporgon said:


> I don’t think we can say they are ‘relatively new’ now in digital photography terms; the Sony A7R and Nikon D800 were introduced nearly ten years ago, the 5DS six years ago. If the greater ‘resolution’ - read output size in reality - was critical to wild life photographers these guys would have been all over these camera bodies yet the evidence is that they have not been.


I am one of “these guys” doing wild life. You do buildings according to your signature. The D800 was not introduced as a wild life camera and Nikon introduced the D500 APS-C with its D series AF and equivalent to a ~45 Mpx sensor and 10 fps for wild life, which is beloved by Nikon bird shooters. The 5DSR is quite popular with wild life shooters - I have posted 100s of shots with it in the bird threads here, including BIF and dragonflies. The D850 from Nikon is also popular. The current consensus among many bird photographers is that the Sony A1 and R5 are battling out for first place and the D500 is next. Many who took up the Sony A9 because of its AF and stacked sensor are moving to the A1 because of its higher Mpx. If you don’t believe me, go and look at the threads on Fred Miranda where the bird photographers hang out, and you can see for yourself I am not inventing the evidence for this.


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## AlanF (Sep 16, 2021)

SnowMiku said:


> Have you considered the 90D and the EF 70-300mm IS II as a light weight alternative? It's equivalent to 480mm which is only 20mm short of the RF 100-500mm L. The 32.5 MP sensor also helps a lot with cropping.


The 90D is a fine camera, but the AF is not up to 7DII standards. Digigal has an R5, and the new 100-400 will pair nicely with it to give a lightweight combination with outstanding AF. The Canon MTFs for the RF 100-400 are quite good, and I’ll post a comparison with other lenses.
Edit: I should have mentioned, in terms of field of view, 300mm on an APS-C has the view of 480mm on FF. However, in terms of resolution or reach, a 300mm on a 32.5Mpx 90D is equivalent to 411 mm on a 45Mpx R5 (3.2 vs 4.39 µ pixels).


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## Sporgon (Sep 16, 2021)

AlanF said:


> Nikon introduced the D500 for bird and nature photographers with its high density sensor
> 
> If you don’t believe me, go and look at the threads on Fred Miranda where the bird photographers hang out, and you can see for yourself I am not inventing the evidence for this.


I'm not suggesting that you are. What I am saying is that if you look at the wildlife photographers who have been successful in getting their images into the public eye over the last few years there does not appear to have been a rush to the high mp version of the camera make that they choose to use. Inevitably this will change in the future as models become both high mp and offer the specifications that they want, but to my mind it shows that other aspects of the cameras performance were more important to them than just high mp, and I'm not specifically talking about amateur bird photographers, where 'crop factor' and high pixel density do seem to be valued.


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## AlanF (Sep 16, 2021)

Sporgon said:


> I'm not suggesting that you are. What I am saying is that if you look at the wildlife photographers who have been successful in getting their images into the public eye over the last few years there does not appear to have been a rush to the high mp version of the camera make that they choose to use. Inevitably this will change in the future as models become both high mp and offer the specifications that they want, but to my mind it shows that other aspects of the cameras performance were more important to them than just high mp, and I'm not specifically talking about amateur bird photographers, where 'crop factor' and high pixel density do seem to be valued.


The Bird Photographers of the year were announced a week or so ago https://www.imaging-resource.com/ne...otographer-of-the-year-2021-winners-announced 
The Nikon D850 and D500s were the most prominent bodies. Gordon Laing said at the end of the review of the R3 it’s not aimed at wild life shooters.


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## ConanRumours (Sep 16, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> Lol. Thanks so very much for sharing your pithy knowledge. You may return to your troll cave now, and let the grown-ups talk.


ok boomer!


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## JustUs7 (Sep 16, 2021)

Sporgon said:


> I'm not suggesting that you are. What I am saying is that if you look at the wildlife photographers who have been successful in getting their images into the public eye over the last few years there does not appear to have been a rush to the high mp version of the camera make that they choose to use. Inevitably this will change in the future as models become both high mp and offer the specifications that they want, but to my mind it shows that other aspects of the cameras performance were more important to them than just high mp, and I'm not specifically talking about amateur bird photographers, where 'crop factor' and high pixel density do seem to be valued.


Don’t know that it will be intentional replacement because the new stuff gets better. It’s just that the new stuff will be whats available when existing equipment wears out. Kind of happens organically.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Sep 16, 2021)

AlanF said:


> The Bird Photographers of the year were announced a week or so ago https://www.imaging-resource.com/ne...otographer-of-the-year-2021-winners-announced
> The Nikon D850 and D500s were the most prominent bodies. Gordon Laing said at the end of the review of the R3 it’s not aimed at wild life shooters.



The car AF gives away the use and also the eye thing. Still for wildlife I would use the R3 over the R5 any day. Stacked sensors are really just that much better and I like foxes, deer, bears, snakes, anything not a bird.


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## AlanF (Sep 16, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> The car AF gives away the use and also the eye thing. Still for wildlife I would use the R3 over the R5 any day. Stacked sensors are really just that much better and I like foxes, deer, bears, snakes, anything not a bird.


Before making that decision, it might just be a good idea to compare the two directly. Gordon Laing's choice was to use the R5, but he is only one point of view.


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## Jack Douglas (Sep 16, 2021)

Sporgon said:


> I'm not suggesting that you are. What I am saying is that if you look at the wildlife photographers who have been successful in getting their images into the public eye over the last few years there does not appear to have been a rush to the high mp version of the camera make that they choose to use. Inevitably this will change in the future as models become both high mp and offer the specifications that they want, but to my mind it shows that other aspects of the cameras performance were more important to them than just high mp, and I'm not specifically talking about amateur bird photographers, where 'crop factor' and high pixel density do seem to be valued.


Speaking strictly for myself, when I bought the 1DX2 it was a serious conundrum of what compromises to prioritize and the only alternative in Canon was the 5D4 and I wanted more FPS and video features. That purchase served me reasonably well but left a bad taste when it was recently sold. It did not prevent me from acquiring some sweet photos but that was to a large extent because I also sprung for the 400 DO II and ended up shooting at 800mm almost exclusively (some quality loss) because of the 20 MP. 

I'm not blaming Canon because I simply got caught purchasing at the wrong time. Now the R5 is solving almost all of the issues and has the features that lots of us said Canon could put in a 1 series camera but refused (the flip-screen, intervalometer, etc.) with only a small number of compromises, one of which is the ergonomics of a pro body for use with large lenses and so many had their hopes up that the R3 would have substantial MPs, but it doesn't.

I don't have the finances to simply throw at each new compromised camera. I feel the R5 purchase was money well spent but the 1DX2, while being so sweet in many ways, just didn't cut it - for me. We the higher MP fans know why we "need" the MPs. For wildlife (birds) with the lenses now available and good extender performance and 45 MPs, there is no longer a significant issue with not having enough reach. After all, it becomes increasingly difficult to "find" the critters quickly at such high focal lengths (narrow FOV).

And of course, "we", speaking for the old-timers on CR, are not getting any stronger or more agile and so are increasingly needing lighter gear. Sadly, there is no perfect solution to aging other than grinning and baring it.  

Jack


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## Deleted member 381342 (Sep 16, 2021)

AlanF said:


> Before making that decision, it might just be a good idea to compare the two directly. Gordon Laing's choice was to use the R5, but he is only one point of view.



I have tried the Z6, R6, R5, and A9ii. While the Sony doesn’t have any lenses it had the best EVF latency when tracking fast moving squirrels. Second I would say was the Z6. The R6 and R5 aren’t bad and I wouldn’t say they where worse than the Z6. But nothing comes close to a stacked sensor just now, stacked sensors put mirrorless ahead of DSLR. The battle is between the R3 and Z9, currently there is nothing as good as the R3 on the market until Nikon shows it’s hand.


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## YEUP (Sep 16, 2021)

FrenchFry said:


> I am so excited about the customizable Q menu!
> Been hopping between the different reviews. Would you mind sharing where you saw this?


Watch the long FroKnowsPhoto video review. Around 40 minutes in, a very very brief explanation, like maybe 30 seconds. Basically it looks like the same sort of customization the 5D IV has.


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## SereneSpeed (Sep 17, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> A good wildlife photographer doesn't significantly crop, if you have to, the photo goes in the bin because you weren't close enough. Unless there is something exceptional or rare that you want proof of. I know a few PhaseOne pros that don't crop beyond something distracting on the edge of the frame or to straighten a horizon.
> 
> Why would you waste your time trying to make a good frame and then hack off a bunch of the data? That's a waste of the photographer's time and quite frankly lazy.
> 
> I'm just talking about pros, not folks that are on a tight budget and learning.


"A good wildlife photographer doesn't significantly crop, if you have to, the photo goes in the bin because you weren't close enough." - It goes in the bin, because there wasn't enough pixel density. If there'd been enough pixels to crop and the shot was fantastic, why, really, honestly, why would anyone 'bin it'?

"Why would you waste your time trying to make a good frame and then hack off a bunch of the data? That's a waste of the photographer's time and quite frankly lazy." - I'm sure you'll forget this post in ten minutes, let alone ten years. But, (I believe), in ten years, a line like that will date you. With the D800 and then the 5DSR, commercial and studio photographers with malleable skillsets have expanded the limits of compositional constraints to better harness the new flexibility afforded by higher density sensors. It took me nearly 5 years to re-learn how to look through a viewfinder. Why? Because for the first 20 years I shot, I needed to 'fill the frame' to get the required amount of detail. But now, I 'shoot loose'. Sounds lazy? No, sounds like money. I sell different crops of the same image. I licence different crops of the same image. One for the banner on a website (4x1 aspect ratio), one for a magazine add (9x12), three for socials (1x1, 4x3, 4x5). All from the same image. And no - no - I'm not lazy. It takes a lot of work to previsualize that. To allow for multiple compositional outcomes in a single frame. I see multiple crop options when I shoot portraits, too. And, pros in other fields have already adapted in the same way. There's no way someone shooting an animal hundreds of meters out isn't going to be able to make a business case to 'shoot loose'. Many will - not all (I don't want to generalize and polarize - shooting styles are personal). It seems to me that other than crop sensors, wildlife photographers just haven't had the option yet. There isn't a 45mp R3... Times change. Techniques change. Skillsets required to monetize images change.

:steps off his soapbox:

(And yeah, although I'm a fulltime 'working pro', you'd never catch me on safari, so, feel free to ignore the above - or remember me in 10 years)


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## ConanRumours (Sep 17, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> I have tried the Z6, R6, R5, and A9ii. While the Sony doesn’t have any lenses it had the best EVF latency when tracking fast moving squirrels. Second I would say was the Z6. The R6 and R5 aren’t bad and I wouldn’t say they where worse than the Z6. But nothing comes close to a stacked sensor just now, stacked sensors put mirrorless ahead of DSLR. The battle is between the R3 and Z9, currently there is nothing as good as the R3 on the market until Nikon shows it’s hand.


The a1 is better and also faster, 120 focus calculations per second VS 60 for the R3. Look forward to Nikon's Z9 though. IMO Canon's best camera is still the r5 due to its size, features and performance.


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## privatebydesign (Sep 17, 2021)

ConanRumours said:


> The a1 is better and also faster, 120 focus calculations per second VS 60 for the R3. Look forward to Nikon's Z9 though. IMO Canon's best camera is still the r5 due to its size, features and performance.


Doesn't it just become an argument in irrelevant statistics? Who says 120 is 'better' than 60, surely the only relevant measure of AF is shots in focus?


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## Deleted member 381342 (Sep 17, 2021)

ConanRumours said:


> The a1 is better and also faster, 120 focus calculations per second VS 60 for the R3. Look forward to Nikon's Z9 though. IMO Canon's best camera is still the r5 due to its size, features and performance.



The main issues with the A1 is that it isn’t a gripped body, Sony haven’t got a good track record with weather sealing so I don’t know if I can trust shooting in a extreme downpour or minus 30 for weeks, and they only have two of the six wildlife lenses I use, and Canon’s and Nikon’s are better. So Sony just aren’t in the race, it’s R3 or Z9. I wouldn’t give up my Z6 for a R5, not enough differences and in a heavy rain in Sri Lanka I watched as the 5D’s of various generations shut down while the 1Dx II/III and Nikon D4 and D5’s kept running even when the rain got even heavier. When I look a BBC documentary crew it is telling that they bring the big bodies to the same places I go and plan to go.


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## Bdbtoys (Sep 17, 2021)

perplex1 said:


> I just put in a preorder on Amazon, as well as a small box store online shop. Hope to get this one soon!
> 
> Amazon is saying "This item will be released on November 30, 2021". Hopefully thats not the release date for everyone



Hopefully they put a box around the retail packaging. I had preordered the 100 Macro, and they slapped a label on the retail box and shipped it that way for contents anyone could see, while beating up the retail box in the process.


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## Jack Douglas (Sep 17, 2021)

Bdbtoys said:


> Hopefully they put a box around the retail packaging. I had preordered the 100 Macro, and they slapped a label on the retail box and shipped it that way for contents anyone could see, while beating up the retail box in the process.


That is completely unacceptable and hard to believe - reason for a complaint for sure.

Jack


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## SHAMwow (Sep 17, 2021)

Bdbtoys said:


> Hopefully they put a box around the retail packaging. I had preordered the 100 Macro, and they slapped a label on the retail box and shipped it that way for contents anyone could see, while beating up the retail box in the process.


Hate when they do that. Never order my camera gear on Amazon, but just hate that regardless.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 17, 2021)

SHAMwow said:


> Hate when they do that. Never order my camera gear on Amazon, but just hate that regardless.


Ordered my RF 100-500 from Amazon as they were the only ones with availability. The lens box was in a larger box surrounded by air-bag packaging, quite well protected. That's not always the case with Amazon, of course.


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## ConanRumours (Sep 18, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Doesn't it just become an argument in irrelevant statistics? Who says 120 is 'better' than 60, surely the only relevant measure of AF is shots in focus?


it's simple math, it takes half the time for the A1 to acquire focus when compared to anything else on the market at that price point. It basically performs double the amount of calculations so there is less opportunity to miss your shot when compared to let's say the r3 or r5 and even the a9. If your shots are still not in focus, I am afraid it's "user error".


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 18, 2021)

ConanRumours said:


> it's simple math, it takes half the time for the A1 to acquire focus when compared to anything else on the market at that price point. It basically performs double the amount of calculations so there is less opportunity to miss your shot when compared to let's say the r3 or r5 and even the a9. If your shots are still not in focus, I am afraid it's "user error".


So you believe that speed is synonymous with accuracy? In practice, the opppsite is usually true.

Simple math…

Person A: My math speed is really fast. 
Person B: Really? So what is 371–129?
Person A (replies in 1 second): 94.
Person B: That’s wrong! You said you were really quick at math?!
Person A: I said I was always fast — not always correct.


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## privatebydesign (Sep 18, 2021)

ConanRumours said:


> it's simple math, it takes half the time for the A1 to acquire focus when compared to anything else on the market at that price point. It basically performs double the amount of calculations so there is less opportunity to miss your shot when compared to let's say the r3 or r5 and even the a9. If your shots are still not in focus, I am afraid it's "user error".


No it isn't simple maths, the random statistic of x somethings per second is meaningless when the x's being measured are different. Is a Sony calculation the same and/or as accurate as a Canon calculation? But more to the point how relevant is that frequency, number, or accuracy when translated to in focus shots?

Now you can compare one Sony to another, or one Canon to another, in raw metrics, but across brands the numbers you are giving are irrelevant to the photographic output, and call me stupid but I buy cameras to take in focus shots not because I extrapolated incomparable spec numbers across brands.

Further, you say the Sony acquires focus twice as fast as anything else available, that isn't what Sony claim. They say the AF system does twice the calculations per second of other systems, nothing about acquiring focus in that time. See how the extrapolating random numbers leads to entirely inaccurate assumptions?


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## perplex1 (Sep 20, 2021)

Bdbtoys said:


> Hopefully they put a box around the retail packaging. I had preordered the 100 Macro, and they slapped a label on the retail box and shipped it that way for contents anyone could see, while beating up the retail box in the process.


ive ordered from them before plenty and and it was always double boxed. I would have definitely been pissed if I was you!


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## SHAMwow (Sep 20, 2021)

perplex1 said:


> ive ordered from them before plenty and and it was always double boxed. I would have definitely been pissed if I was you!


I think it definitely depends on which distribution center you get and stuff. Which is odd there's so much variability since the bigger the business the more standardized things become.


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## SnowMiku (Sep 21, 2021)

Speaking of packaging, having just the camera box inside a box with no padding unfortunately seems to be common. My 700D was just inside the camera box in a satchel with no padding. My 90D was just inside the camera box and pretty much loose inside of the packing box with very minimal padding where the box would still knock around. These were both new from 2 different companies. Most of my used lenses were packed a lot better from eBay sellers then the new gear from big companies.


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## ConanRumours (Sep 21, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> No it isn't simple maths, the random statistic of x somethings per second is meaningless when the x's being measured are different. Is a Sony calculation the same and/or as accurate as a Canon calculation? But more to the point how relevant is that frequency, number, or accuracy when translated to in focus shots?
> 
> Now you can compare one Sony to another, or one Canon to another, in raw metrics, but across brands the numbers you are giving are irrelevant to the photographic output, and call me stupid but I buy cameras to take in focus shots not because I extrapolated incomparable spec numbers across brands.
> 
> Further, you say the Sony acquires focus twice as fast as anything else available, that isn't what Sony claim. They say the AF system does twice the calculations per second of other systems, nothing about acquiring focus in that time. See how the extrapolating random numbers leads to entirely inaccurate assumptions?


You call them random statistics but they are generic performance specs which can be compared across brands the same way you could compare shutter speed. Canon states on the camera webpage: "The CANON EOS R3 can perform up to 60 fps of AF calculation and tracking" while Sony states: "Fast sensor readout enables 120 AF/AE calculations per second3, even during 30 fps bursts, for pinpoint AF tracking precision with fast and erratic subjects. AE latency is less than 0.033sec" so it's apples to apples. Let me explain this In simple terms for you: more AF calculations per second, higher chance to get your subject in focus.....it's that simple! Now if you think these figures provided by Sony are mere assumptions, so are Canon's figures. Canon is getting close though, but I wouldn't expect less from a company that was founded in 1937!


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## koenkooi (Sep 21, 2021)

ConanRumours said:


> You call them random statistics but they are generic performance specs which can be compared across brands the same way you could compare shutter speed. Canon states on the camera webpage: "The CANON EOS R3 can perform up to 60 fps of AF calculation and tracking" while Sony states: "Fast sensor readout enables 120 AF/AE calculations per second3, even during 30 fps bursts, for pinpoint AF tracking precision with fast and erratic subjects. AE latency is less than 0.033sec" so it's apples to apples. Let me explain this In simple terms for you: more AF calculations per second, higher chance to get your subject in focus.....it's that simple! Now if you think these figures provided by Sony are mere assumptions, so are Canon's figures. Canon is getting close though, but I wouldn't expect less from a company that was founded in 1937!


You're saying that if I mount my MP-E65mm to a Sony A1 it will focus faster?


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## privatebydesign (Sep 21, 2021)

ConanRumours said:


> You call them random statistics but they are generic performance specs which can be compared across brands the same way you could compare shutter speed. Canon states on the camera webpage: "The CANON EOS R3 can perform up to 60 fps of AF calculation and tracking" while Sony states: "Fast sensor readout enables 120 AF/AE calculations per second3, even during 30 fps bursts, for pinpoint AF tracking precision with fast and erratic subjects. AE latency is less than 0.033sec" so it's apples to apples. Let me explain this In simple terms for you: more AF calculations per second, higher chance to get your subject in focus.....it's that simple! Now if you think these figures provided by Sony are mere assumptions, so are Canon's figures. Canon is getting close though, but I wouldn't expect less from a company that was founded in 1937!


And I am saying that is a random and irrelevant metric within the one question that is actually important, how many critically sharp images do you get.

But seeing as how the R3 is being demonstrated to shoot 30fps pretty much across the board and the A1 doesn't, it looks like if accurate AF and high FPS are your critical metrics the R3 pisses all over the Sony.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 21, 2021)

1,000 poor calculations per second is _not_ better than 5 accurate calculations per second. Anyone who says different is selling something.


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## koenkooi (Sep 21, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> 1,000 poor calculations per second is _not_ better than 5 accurate calculations per second. Anyone who says different is selling something.


And the camera still has to drive the lens to focus where it has calculated, which is not a trivial problem.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 21, 2021)

koenkooi said:


> And the camera still has to drive the lens to focus where it has calculated, which is not a trivial problem.


Agreed. I'm not a Fro-fan, but he did pretty effectively demonstrate that the R3 can maintain a full 30 fps with various RF lenses and nail focus even at f/1.2 while doing so. I do not know if the Sony can do the same (per the specs some notable lenses cannot even do 30 fps, the 85/1.4 is limited to 20 fps, the 70-200/4 is limited to 15 fps, as a couple of examples, but that doesn't mean all the frames will be in focus).


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## ConanRumours (Sep 22, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> And I am saying that is a random and irrelevant metric within the one question that is actually important, how many critically sharp images do you get.
> 
> But seeing as how the R3 is being demonstrated to shoot 30fps pretty much across the board and the A1 doesn't, it looks like if accurate AF and high FPS are your critical metrics the R3 pisses all over the Sony.


Wow you reference Tony Northrup, that's truly the lowest anyone can go! This is the same guy who reviewed the R3 without actually having one on his hands and often spews inaccurate statements due to his lack of basic understanding on how cameras work. I can also drop videos here from Mark Galer, or numerous other photographers (who shoot with different brands) that show how the A1 indeed shoots 30fps and with 50MP! but why bother? Your glass is full and clearly your childish fanboyism and lack of critical thinking prevent you from acknowledging simple facts.


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## privatebydesign (Sep 22, 2021)

ConanRumours said:


> Wow you reference Tony Northrup, that's truly the lowest anyone can go! This is the same guy who reviewed the R3 without actually having one on his hands and often spews inaccurate statements due to his lack of basic understanding on how cameras work. I can also drop videos here from Mark Galer, or numerous other photographers (who shoot with different brands) that show how the A1 indeed shoots 30fps and with 50MP! but why bother? Your glass is full and clearly your childish fanboyism and lack of critical thinking prevent you from acknowledging simple facts.


Go on then. Link references to real world use by non sponsored photographers with the Sony A1 and f1.2 lenses not only consistently shooting at 30 fps but also achieving critical focus for >95% of the shots. As Neuro points out Sony themselves limit fps when using many of their own lenses on the A1.

I am not fans of either Northrop or Fro but the point is they are independent and they are clearly illustrating actually real world facts, not merely endorsed opinions. Time stamps, buffering, and freely available image files back up what these guys are saying regardless of whether you like what they are saying, or how they say it.

You can accuse me of fanboyism as much as you like, to me it sounds like you are the one who is blindly drinking from the Sony cup... You are the one ignoring the illustrations of real world use with your own eyes.


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## JustUs7 (Sep 22, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Go on then. Link references to real world use by non sponsored photographers with the Sony A1 and f1.2 lenses not only consistently shooting at 30 fps but also achieving critical focus for >95% of the shots. As Neuro points out Sony themselves limit fps when using many of their own lenses on the A1.
> 
> I am not fans of either Northrop or Fro but the point is they are independent and they are clearly illustrating actually real world facts, not merely endorsed opinions. Time stamps, buffering, and freely available image files back up what these guys are saying regardless of whether you like what they are saying, or how they say it.
> 
> You can accuse me of fanboyism as much as you like, to me it sounds like you are the one who is blindly drinking from the Sony cup... You are the one ignoring the illustrations of real world use with your own eyes.


But megapixels!


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## ConanRumours (Sep 24, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Go on then. Link references to real world use by non sponsored photographers with the Sony A1 and f1.2 lenses not only consistently shooting at 30 fps but also achieving critical focus for >95% of the shots. As Neuro points out Sony themselves limit fps when using many of their own lenses on the A1.
> 
> I am not fans of either Northrop or Fro but the point is they are independent and they are clearly illustrating actually real world facts, not merely endorsed opinions. Time stamps, buffering, and freely available image files back up what these guys are saying regardless of whether you like what they are saying, or how they say it.
> 
> You can accuse me of fanboyism as much as you like, to me it sounds like you are the one who is blindly drinking from the Sony cup... You are the one ignoring the illustrations of real world use with your own eyes.


You are literally the reason they have instructions on shampoo bottles, wake up and smell the coffee!


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 24, 2021)

ConanRumours said:


> You are literally the reason they have instructions on shampoo bottles, wake up and smell the coffee!


So, no unbiased evidence to back up your claims. Figured as much.


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## Cyborx (Sep 24, 2021)

Can we start rumoring about the R1 allright? Who needs 24 mpix, by the time this camera comes out it’s 2022. 
24 megapixel in 2022 for a flagship camera. Wwtttfff


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## kaihp (Sep 24, 2021)

Cyborx said:


> Can we start rumoring about the R1 allright? Who needs 24 mpix, by the time this camera comes out it’s 2022.
> 24 megapixel in 2022 for a flagship camera. Wwtttfff


150Mpixels FTW! All aboard the hypetrain


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## SteveC (Sep 24, 2021)

Cyborx said:


> Can we start rumoring about the R1 allright? Who needs 24 mpix, by the time this camera comes out it’s 2022.
> 24 megapixel in 2022 for a flagship camera. Wwtttfff



1 Gigapixel.

You know it's coming someday.


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## Quackator (Oct 6, 2021)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> Is the electronic shutter global? I expect not.


Unfortunately not. And the chances are bad. Canon folks told me during Photopia in Hamburg that global shutter and AF don't mix. You can have only one of the two.


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## kaihp (Oct 7, 2021)

Quackator said:


> Canon folks told me during Photopia in Hamburg that global shutter and AF don't mix. You can have only one of the two.


Did they ELI5 why?

Inquiring minds wants to be enlightened.


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## Quackator (Oct 9, 2021)

kaihp said:


> Did they ELI5 why?
> 
> Inquiring minds wants to be enlightened.


They didn't go into detail, just stated that the currently available 
AF-implementations can't work on a global shutter.


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