# Canon 6D True High ISO King?



## JusSayin (Aug 21, 2014)

Clarkvision.com did an analysis here. Any thoughts? http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/evaluation-canon-6d/


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## mackguyver (Aug 21, 2014)

Interesting test, particularly the thermal part, but I thought everyone was generally in agreement that the 6D had the lowest noise levels. 

Unfortunately your post is likely to stir up the the frat guys from So Nik Pen, the DxORKS, and the DRones ;D


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## DominoDude (Aug 21, 2014)

Very interesting and it seems thorough enough. I've been skimming through the initial link, and spent more time with reading a linked page and all the data/diagrams and equations found there.

Thanks for finding such a meaty little treasure, JusSayin! *tips hat*


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 21, 2014)

I thought it was discussed in January after it came out.


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## Sporgon (Aug 21, 2014)

I've always said the image quality from this latest generation of Canon FF cameras is superb, whether high or low ISO. Posts from 'professionals' who criticise the IQ in non demanding situations is a good way of raising blood pressure.


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## MichaelHodges (Aug 21, 2014)

JusSayin said:


> Clarkvision.com did an analysis here. Any thoughts? http://www.clarkvision.com/articles/evaluation-canon-6d/



One of the reasons why I own it. Okay, main reason. The camera is amazing for animals in fading light.


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## jeffa4444 (Aug 22, 2014)

The IQ of this camera given its price difference with the 5D MKIII is its biggest atribute. I shoot a lot of landscape and the results from this camera far outstrip anything Ive had before and in real world use the IQ between the 6D and 5D MKIII is the same. Definately the bargin camera in Canon range.


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## mdmphoto (Aug 22, 2014)

All I know is I bought the 6D last Spring after loving my 7D for the years its been around and, even with fewer af points, slower fps, and so on, the 6D is my walk-around, goto body, with the 7D usually in my bag for daylight sports and wildlife, as a just-in-case, or to impress folk by shooting with two bodies. I now travel only with the 6D...


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## SloPhoto (Aug 22, 2014)

I absolutely love the IQ of the 6D - probably all the more so that it is my first body upgrade in a LOOOOOOONG time. As far as hi-ISO, some of the natural light shots that I've taken with the 6D/35 ART combo were hard to believe. I can only imagine what the output looks like in the hands of someone who actually knows what they're doing!

The amount of data that the sensor preserves is incredible, and really allows for some incredible versatility in post. My only beef is the AF performance pretty much sails out the window the moment the sun drops. Dusk shooting is all about MF in my experience.


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## Ruined (Aug 22, 2014)

I have to say the 6D does look amazing at High ISOs which is incredibly important for me since I often shoot indoor events with available light only (mostly using f/1.2-f/1.4 primes). The 5D3's less impressive performance in this area and its lack of user interchangeable focus screen (huge issue for me not being able to use high precision focusing screen when using 1.2-1.4 lenses) are two things that prevent me from considering that camera.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 22, 2014)

Ruined said:


> I have to say the 6D does look amazing at High ISOs which is incredibly important for me since I often shoot indoor events with available light only (mostly using f/1.2-f/1.4 primes). The 5D3's less impressive performance in this area  and its lack of user interchangeable focus screen (huge issue for me not being able to use high precision focusing screen when using 1.2-1.4 lenses) are two things that prevent me from considering that camera.



Once again, I disagree. I don't have any issue taking picture with 5D3 under any lighting condition.


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## MichaelHodges (Aug 22, 2014)

SloPhoto said:


> I absolutely love the IQ of the 6D



It;s amazing, isn't it? Smooth, sharp, clean images. 




> My only beef is the AF performance pretty much sails out the window the moment the sun drops. Dusk shooting is all about MF in my experience.




Now this I'm going to have to disagree with. Using center point AF with L lenses, the lowlight focus is the best I've used on any Canon DSLR.


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## Marsu42 (Aug 22, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> Once again, I disagree. I don't have any issue taking picture with 5D3 under any lighting condition.



That's probably because you've got fast lenses, try af'ing with a f5.6 lens (70-300L on long end) at dusk and you're happy about the 1 more stop of af capability the 6d provides. It's very slow though in these cases, but nice for landscape and such. It really does af in moonlight, I've tried it with my one fast f2.8 100L lens.


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## dgatwood (Aug 22, 2014)

MichaelHodges said:


> > My only beef is the AF performance pretty much sails out the window the moment the sun drops. Dusk shooting is all about MF in my experience.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Agreed. It's decent at f/4. It's awesome at f/2.8 and faster. With my shorty forty, it focuses down to somewhere in the neighborhood of 1/6th of a second at ISO 12,600, which is almost, but not quite, at the lower limit of where I can tell what I'm shooting a picture of.... 

And well below the minimum light level for me to fully distinguish color.


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## zlatko (Aug 23, 2014)

MichaelHodges said:


> SloPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > I absolutely love the IQ of the 6D
> ...



I agree, center point on the 6D is great. In any light.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 23, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > Once again, I disagree. I don't have any issue taking picture with 5D3 under any lighting condition.
> ...


The only time my 5d iii didn't focus was when I had lens cap on. I can really see how 6d iq in -3ev lighting condition, since it focus well with f5.6 lens. 

I do not think 6d is bad camera. 6d is great ff body for those looking to shoot high iso with no need advance AF. I do not believe the theory 6d af has more adv. AF in low light over 5d iii. Just because specs showed -3ev...it doesn't mean is useful. Can the center point focus properly in -3ev is a bigger question.


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## mastreb (Aug 23, 2014)

My 6D reliably autofocuses at LV -6. I think it's light value and not exposure value that is the important quality in this discussion, but if I'm incorrect let me know.

I just did some handheld shots of the Milky Way on Mauna Kea using my 50mm f/1.0 that turned out great, and the camera easily auto-focused between near focus dark objects like my kids and correct infinity focus for the sky. Most of the shots were f/1, 1/10th s, ISO 25600. Noise is very apparent upon examination but not obvious in the shots.


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## dgatwood (Aug 23, 2014)

mastreb said:


> I just did some handheld shots of the Milky Way on Mauna Kea using my 50mm f/1.0 that turned out great, and the camera easily auto-focused between near focus dark objects like my kids and correct infinity focus for the sky. Most of the shots were f/1, 1/10th s, ISO 25600. Noise is very apparent upon examination but not obvious in the shots.



Man, I so wish Canon would release a new version of that lens. I'm dubious about buying one because the focusing motors eventually fail, aren't readily replaceable (no parts available), and are required even for manual focusing. But if Canon released a new version of the 50mm f/1.0 lens with ring USM, I'd buy one in a heartbeat.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 23, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > Once again, I disagree. I don't have any issue taking picture with 5D3 under any lighting condition.
> ...



Photo below was taken today, around 8:30PM California time. 5D III + 40mm pancake, Av mode @ f5.6, shutter 1.3sec, ISO12800. SOOC, no edit, only resized to post here. 

I closed all window blinds and main door - completely darkness. I lit up a small candle and left it in the middle of 17x20 feet office. Set my camera to 2sec/remote and left it on a office chair. I shut off the office light - the office was extremely dim. Looking through the view finder, I wasn't able to see any text on those book at all. Pressed the shutter, heard beep sound from AF confirm instantly. Without looking through view finder, I moved the camera slightly left and right. Pressed the shutter, again... the beep sound was on instantly.

I prefer to shoot with flashes under this lighting condition.

EDIT: my wife gave me a funny look when she saw me walking into the office with a candle, lighter and a camera


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## Marsu42 (Aug 23, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> I do not think 6d is bad camera.



Well, I have it and I do, at least in comparison to the 5d3. Though the reduced banding vs. 5d3 is very nice, the af system simply isn't adequate for this day and age and price tag. The -3LV focus capability of course is a marketing stunt by canon to give people the feeling they don't have the all out inferior product, they usually do this (flip screen on 60d vs 7d, nice colorful paint on Rebels...).



mastreb said:


> My 6D reliably autofocuses at LV -6. I think it's light value and not exposure value that is the important quality in this discussion, but if I'm incorrect let me know.



Ugh? It's the same, you can calculate the LV from av/tv/iso/ec exposure values. See http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/ev.htm



Dylan777 said:


> Photo below was taken today, around 8:30PM California time. 5D III + 40mm pancake, Av mode @ f5.6, shutter 1.3sec, ISO12800. SOOC, no edit, only resized to post here.



This is also a fast lens (f2.8, the af system works wide open), as for example the 70-300L @300mm really autofocuses at f5.6.

As for the scene: Focus capability not only relies on the LV calculated by the exposure, but you also have to have some edges for the af system to lock on and an *even* light distribution. The enhanced 6d af system is beneficial if you for example af on a landscape scenery in ambient moonlight (and not on the moon edges itself).

In your case, you had more than ideal conditions - the candle center would be rather bright, and the book provide good edges - that's why the af worked so fast. If it would have really been the 5d3's ev limit, I suspect the af would have been much slower. The LV calculated from your very uneven exposure doesn't tell us anything.

It's unfortunate nobody ever did a real comparison 6d vs 5d3 on the *same* scene so we could tell if the 6d superiority here is a myth or not.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 23, 2014)

Until then, comment likes "6D center AF point works better than 5D III in low light" is just an imagination. 



Marsu42 said:


> mastreb said:
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> > quote]
> ...


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## sagittariansrock (Aug 23, 2014)

Kudos to the 6D, but the review also mentions 7D as having an excellent sensor for low-light work, so I don't know what to say...


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## verysimplejason (Aug 23, 2014)

Here we go again... 5D3 vs 6D. I was reminded of an argument not a long time ago that some people can't accept that a lower-priced camera can have a better sensor than its significantly more expensive sibling (in the *same generation). :


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## Marsu42 (Aug 23, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> Until then, comment likes "6D center AF point works better than 5D III in low light" is just an imagination.



Even though I'm rather critical with the 6d and Canon marketing, they do say that the 5d3 works up to -2lv, the 6d at half this light. I really doubt there is absolutely nothing to it, the question is if it's really a full stop, how slow the cameras are to af at min. light and how often these situations occur.



verysimplejason said:


> I was reminded of an argument not a long time ago that some people can't accept that a lower-priced camera can have a better sensor than its significantly more expensive sibling (in the *same generation). :



Nothing unusual about that, it's the complete package that counts, and of course Canon (and every other manufacturer) will take great care that more money means better overall performance. If you have special needs you can sidestep this system (like landscape with the 6d), but you cannot really escape the logic.

Last not least, if you don't want to read anything about 5d3 vs. 6d don't look at a "6D True High ISO King" thread


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## verysimplejason (Aug 24, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > Until then, comment likes "6D center AF point works better than 5D III in low light" is just an imagination.
> ...



I think you are oversimplifying things "you can sidestep this system (like landscape with the 6d), but you cannot really escape the logic". *Is it logical to just take a camera based on your needs*? Again, if you think 6D isn't the "best" for you then why choose it? You should have bought 5D3 where you are better served. You said "it's the complete package that counts". Now, that's not being logical. That's a statement that is too subjective. My point is, everybody has a need that is better served by something else as you yourself mentioned. Choosing a system based on your need, now that is what we can call logical. The point is, for those guys who doesn't need the best AF but needs the cleanest high ISO IQ, then 6D is really the King. Of course, it might be a different case for you so 6D might not be the King for you. Isn't that logical? Are we escaping the logic in any way? :


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## Ruined (Aug 24, 2014)

5d3 vs 6d is a tough choice for me, if I were given either to use regularly for free and could not sell I'm not sure what I would pick.
-5d3 clearly has overall better AF, but on the other hand I can't put in a high precision focusing screen meaning I can't MF fast lenses accurately through viewfinder (or see what I am truly AFing); 6D center point also rated as being able to focus in lower light than 5d3 per Canon specs.
-I like the joystick on 5d3, but programming the pad on 6d to move AF points works also with a bit less comfort.
-I like the image quality of 5d3, but 6d has better high ISO performance.
-The dual card slots and 1/8000 shutter speed on 5d3 are a nice bonus I'd definitely use, but then again 6d has gps/wifi at no extra cost; though I'd rather have the fast shutter and dual cards than gps/wifi, fast shutter might reduce my usage of ND filters in daylight with fast lenses wide open.

I would like to say the 5d3 is a clear cut upgrade from 6D but there are a important few areas where the 6D exceeds the 5d3. Hopefully 5d4 will rectify these issues in all areas so I'd consider upgrading to it, as right now the disadvantages of the 5d3 prevent me from considering an upgrade...


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## Marsu42 (Aug 24, 2014)

Now, I'm not really interested in yet another 6d vs 5d3 debate, but it's hard not to reply  ... but I'll try to let this be my last comment on this specific issue.



verysimplejason said:


> Is it logical to just take a camera based on your needs ... Again, if you think 6D isn't the "best" for you then why choose it?



Oh my, that's good ol' CR "Just get a 1dx, 70-200L2, 24-70L2 and be done with it" :-> ... I'm rather amazed about these questions, but fyi I can think of 1200 reasons with an € label attached :-o



verysimplejason said:


> You said "it's the complete package that counts". Now, that's not being logical.



On the contrary, though I admit this was not very precise. I define "complete package" as Canon marketing and statistics would define it, i.e. what what user groups willing how many $$$ to spend need... and then they do or modify the specs.

Imho there is a rather linear "complete package" scale, Rebel "shoot your family on birthdays" group have different needs than the enthusiasts around here. For example looking at the posts, users who buy a ff also want some sort of sealing and pref. a 100% vf - so Canon uses these pieces of information to assemble packages like "6d good sensor / lacking sealing / cropped vf" and "5d3 has it all". These are just examples from the top of my head, but you get the picture.



Ruined said:


> 5d3 vs 6d is a tough choice for me, if I were given either to use regularly for free and could not sell I'm not sure what I would pick.



For me it wasn't because I'm $$$ limited and bodies loose their price much quicker than lenses. I keep commenting on the 6d's af shortcomings as I'm annoyed Canon crippled it beyond what would have been required to separate if from the 5d3.

But truth is, *if* the shot is in focus (and that's not difficult with landscape and such) it has terrific iq and significantly less banding than the 5d3, and at the end of the day people aren't interested in how many shots were lost but only how good the one shot left is. So if I don't lose the shot of my life because the 6d's af fails I'd rather spend the 6d->5d3 difference on lenses, because that's what you see (through).


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## jocau (Aug 24, 2014)

How does the EG-S screen for the 6D exactly work? Could you also use it to manually focus on a subject located at about one third from the left or right side in the viewfinder? Or does it only work for subjects in the center of the viewfinder?


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## Sporgon (Aug 24, 2014)

jocau said:


> How does the EG-S screen for the 6D exactly work? Could you also use it to manually focus on a subject located at about one third from the left or right side in the viewfinder? Or does it only work for subjects in the center of the viewfinder?



It works across the whole screen, _but_ once you move away from the broad centre, the lens you are using will dictate how effective it is as many fast prime's resolution drops away towards the edges of the frame when fully open, and as all cameras now have 'open aperture metering' you are viewing through the lens at its least efficient, resolution wise. 

I find the major benefit of the 's' screens is seeing the actual dof. I use them but I still use AF too.


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## NancyP (Aug 24, 2014)

6D is a great landscape and general use camera. Many people don't need a sports/wildlife camera, or would prefer to have a specialist sports/wildlife camera (7D or 1D4) with higher frame rate than the 5D3. The Eg-S screen works fine for demonstrating depth of field. I use manual lenses, some of which have yet to be chipped, so I do like the Eg-S screen over the initial screen.


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## Chosenbydestiny (Aug 24, 2014)

I own both and I'll end this argument by saying, if it's a paid job I reach for the 5D3 and bring a 6D for backup/reserve but if it isn't I just take the 6D which I agree to disagree has slightly faster focusing in very low light via center point but nothing to shake a fist over.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 24, 2014)

Ruined said:


> 5d3 vs 6d is a tough choice for me, if I were given either to use regularly for free and could not sell I'm not sure what I would pick.
> -5d3 clearly has overall better AF, but on the other hand I can't put in a high precision focusing screen meaning I can't MF fast lenses accurately through viewfinder (or see what I am truly AFing); 6D center point also rated as being able to focus in lower light than 5d3 per Canon specs.
> -I like the joystick on 5d3, but programming the pad on 6d to move AF points works also with a bit less comfort.
> -I like the image quality of 5d3, but 6d has better high ISO performance.
> ...



LOL...really? I can't believe what I'm hearing GPS/WiFi are more important in choosing between 5D3 & 6D, LOL ;D. You made my morning ;D ;D ;D

If I'm a wedding shooter, 5D III is clearly a winner. I have 4 friends(PRO wedding shooters), none of them carry 6D. Combined, they have eight 5DIII & six 1dx.

With all focus points below, why MF? With just 41 combination of dual & cross type, recompose the shot is almost down to zero = less miss shots, even with f1.2 lenses. 

1. How do you MF in live wedding when your subjects are moving around? 
2. At what high ISO does 6D is better than 5DIII?
3. Assuming 6D center AF focus faster than 5DIII in -3EV condtion, would you delivery 12800ISO photos to your clients?


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## jocau (Aug 24, 2014)

Ironically enough I was at a friend's wedding last month and the photographer was using a 5D3. I watched her a bit only to find out she was using the center AF point exclusively...

My initial thought? She could have also shot that wedding with a 6D if she only uses the center AF point.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 24, 2014)

jocau said:


> Ironically enough I was at a friend's wedding last month and the photographer was using a 5D3. I watched her a bit only to find out she was using the center AF point exclusively...
> 
> My initial thought? She could have also shot that wedding with a 6D if she only uses the center AF point.


Dual cross perhaps more precise than just cross.


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## MichaelHodges (Aug 24, 2014)

NancyP said:


> 6D is a great landscape and general use camera. Many people don't need a sports/wildlife camera, or would prefer to have a specialist sports/wildlife camera (7D or 1D4) with higher frame rate than the 5D3. T



I always reach for the 6D over my crop cameras when shooting wildlife. There's an overall tonality and smoothness to the images at all ISO's that really makes fur, fin, and feather "pop".


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## MLfan3 (Aug 24, 2014)

some 5D guys are extremely insecure and condescending, hating the 6D just like some die hard D8xx fans hate the Sony A7R or D610.
but it all depends on what you shoot or what how much weight you like to carry with you regardless or tiny bit of AF feature set difference between the 2 in question here.
but one thing I am sure about is the 6D's center point AF is quite much better than any AF point of the 61pts of the 5D Af sensor or D810 sensor.
I tried many times in lowlight and nothing with the mirror beat the 6D in the area of lowlight AF.
The GH4 and the A7s are better than the 6D in this specific area, but none of Nikon Canon with mirror beats it.
Oh and also for long exposure thermal noise, the 6D is about 34 percent better than the 5D3 , you can see it in all sensor tests including Roger's.


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## Ruined (Aug 24, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> Ruined said:
> 
> 
> > 5d3 vs 6d is a tough choice for me, if I were given either to use regularly for free and could not sell I'm not sure what I would pick.
> ...



Did you read my post? It does not appear so.



> If I'm a wedding shooter, 5D III is clearly a winner. I have 4 friends(PRO wedding shooters), none of them carry 6D. Combined, they have eight 5DIII & six 1dx.



And, what does this mean to the total pool of wedding photographers which is multitudes greater than 4? Are you saying your friends are unable to shoot a wedding with a 5D2 or 6D? What did they do before the 5D3 came out? My guess is use the 5D2, which has worse autofocus than the 6D. I would be very concerned about the skill level of a professional unable to shoot a high quality wedding with a 6D. 

The 1DX I would use no contest over the 6D as it dominates in all aspects, but I cannot yet justify the cost of two 1DX bodies when 6D is doing the job currently. I could justify two 5D4 bodies, but only if Canon does not gimp them by removing ability to interchange focus screens as they did with the 5D3.



> With all focus points below, why MF? With just 41 combination of dual & cross type, recompose the shot is almost down to zero = less miss shots, even with f1.2 lenses.



Focus & recompose at f/1.2 will not acquire exact focus due to the thin DOF. While the 5d3 has a ton of focal points, often none of them are exactly where the eye would be in thin DOF portrait shots in either landscape or portrait orientations. Hence there is no way to truly focus properly for thin DOF portraits on the 5D3 aside from MF in Live View, which requires a tripod; you can spray&pray or recompose and hope it comes out okay, but I'd rather get it right the first time. The 6D comes stock with the same screen the 5D3 has stock, and they are both terrible for MFing fast lenses compared to the Ec-S/Eg-S screen which can be used on the 1DX/6D - but not the 5D3.



> 1. How do you MF in live wedding when your subjects are moving around?



You don't MF when you are capturing guests moving around. You MF for precise focus when doing shallow DOF portraits with bride/groom which are some of the most important shots of the whole wedding. 5d3's MF capabilities are very weak since there is no way to see true DOF with fast lenses unlike the 1DX and 6D with high precision screen. Even when using autofocus with fast lenses the high precision screen better shows what is in focus and what is not prior to taking the photo than the stock screen. For lots of motion I would center point focus in AI Servo and crop afterwards when needed.



> 2. At what high ISO does 6D is better than 5DIII?



I'd say it starts to becomes noticeable at 6400, which can be necessary at low light venues.



> 3. Assuming 6D center AF focus faster than 5DIII in -3EV condtion, would you delivery 12800ISO photos to your clients?



Not usually, though delivering a 12800 ISO photo is better than no photo. However, this is why I use f/1.2-f/1.4 primes... which once again, cannot be MF'd properly through the viewfinder on a 5d3 due to Canon obviously gimping the 5d3 on purpose to differentiate it from 1DX. Canon literally screwed a thin plate over where you would access the focus screen on the 5d3, but more problematicly removed the metering options for high precision screens out of the C.Fn settings - meaning if you change focus screens on 5d3, you void the warranty and your metering will be off.


The bottom line is, I don't want to give up the ability to MF my fast lenses through the viewfinder, and I also think the 6D autofocus is sufficient for most events (sports excluded, where I would rather use a 1DX).


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## MLfan3 (Aug 24, 2014)

just admit it , the 5D3 is an old tech and already dated when it was first announced.


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## xps (Aug 24, 2014)

My personal experience/opinion: The 6D works good in critally light conditions, the 5D3s AF is superior. 
Visited an workshop in Munich´s zoo. Compared the shots with the 8 other fotographers (4x6D, 5x7D, 4x5D3. Mostly 100-400mm, 300mm2.8+2x, 1x 400mm, 1x500mm):
5D3 was superior, shooting the fast flying hawks and milans. Sharp pictures: 6D ~50%, 7D~75, 5D3 ~80-90%.
But when we shot swimming sea lions (dark objects), the AF of the 6D could (nearly) reach the 5D3s. And the details of the black and dark brown lion pelts were as good as the 5D3s. 
An good lens helps the AF of the 6D @ moving objects more than if you use it on the 7D. Using the outer AF points in moving objects, is a clear point of the 5D3 or 7D.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 25, 2014)

Ruined said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > Ruined said:
> ...


I just got back from shooting the surfers. Feel like I need a cold Starbucks classic espresso. About we both get one each and continue our discussion there.


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## dgatwood (Aug 25, 2014)

Ruined said:


> The bottom line is, I don't want to give up the ability to MF my fast lenses through the viewfinder, and I also think the 6D autofocus is sufficient for most events (sports excluded, where I would rather use a 1DX).



IMO, the 6D's max FPS is a much bigger problem for sports photography than its AF performance (which in my experience is fairly usable for sports).

Where the 6D's AF really falls short, IMO, is bird-in-flight photography, where the much higher AF point density of a 5D Mark III or 1DX would be a big step up.


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## verysimplejason (Aug 25, 2014)

MLfan3 said:


> some 5D guys are extremely insecure and condescending, hating the 6D just like some die hard D8xx fans hate the Sony A7R or D610.
> but it all depends on what you shoot or what how much weight you like to carry with you regardless or tiny bit of AF feature set difference between the 2 in question here.
> but one thing I am sure about is the 6D's center point AF is quite much better than any AF point of the 61pts of the 5D Af sensor or D810 sensor.
> I tried many times in lowlight and nothing with the mirror beat the 6D in the area of lowlight AF.
> ...



Some guys just really don't want to admit 6D's sensor IQ superiority in low-light. Well, if it's AF that's more important to them and what defines "HIGH ISO KING", then so be it. We can't argue on something where our definition differs. 

It really hurts when you invested some more $$$ just to find out that it's not superior in everything to something that's significantly cheaper.


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## jocau (Aug 25, 2014)

verysimplejason said:


> MLfan3 said:
> 
> 
> > some 5D guys are extremely insecure and condescending, hating the 6D just like some die hard D8xx fans hate the Sony A7R or D610.
> ...



Correct, but the 6D also suffers from that 'disease' as the outer AF points of even the T5i are better than those of the 6D.


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## MichaelHodges (Aug 25, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> The -3LV focus capability of course is a marketing stunt by canon to give people the feeling they don't have the all out inferior product



I'm having a hard time figuring which one is the inferior product. This noise monkey at long ISO, or the 6D?

http://petapixel.com/2012/12/13/canon-6d-and-5dmk3-noise-comparison-for-high-iso-long-exposures/


I'm a bit puzzled at the blowback against superior sensors by some on this forum (regardless of brand).


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## verysimplejason (Aug 25, 2014)

jocau said:


> verysimplejason said:
> 
> 
> > MLfan3 said:
> ...



I'm a center-point / MF user so this doesn't bother me. For some, the center point is enough but that's not saying that the outer points doesn't work.


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