# A Canon DSLR Rumor Roundup Heading into 2018



## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 21, 2017)

```
In the next week or so, we’ll be seeing the announcement of at least 4 lenses, an <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/clarification-corrections-on-the-upcoming-new-lenses-from-canon-cr2/">EF 85mm f/1.4L IS as well as three new tilt shift lenses, a TS-50mm f/2.8L Macro, TS-90mm f/2.8L Macro and a TS-E 135mm f/4L Macro</a>. We’ll also see the EOS M100 mirrorless camera announced around the same time.</p>
<p>We have seen mentions of a new entry level  Rebel being announced, but we don’t usually hear too much about those.</p>
<p>Beyond that, we aren’t going to be seeing new Canon DSLR until early 2018. We’ve been told that there is likely going to be a “shakeup” as far as prosumer APS-C DSLRs go. The source is trying to find out what the “shake-up will be”, but I think by the time 2018 rolls around, both the EOS 80D and EOS 7D Mark II are going to be ready for an update. Canon  cannot wait 5 years again for a sequel to the EOS 7D Mark II.</p>

<p>We should also see our first 4K APS-C camera from Canon in 2018. Whether it is in mirrorless or DSLR form remains to be seen.</p>
<p>The same source says the roadmap shows a replacement for the EOS 5DS and EOS  5DS R coming in 2018 as well. It’s expected by the source that Canon will amalgamate the two high megapixel bodies into one model. Nikon did the same thing after the D800 and D800E, as we only saw the D810.</p>
<p>What was interesting is that a “professional EOS-1” is said to be starting in-the-field testing in 2018. That doesn’t mean we’ll see a new body next year, but 2018 is an Olympic and FIFA World  Cup  year, which usually (but not always) lends itself to some new prosumer/professional gear.</p>
<p>There was no mention of a full frame mirrorless camera from this source.</p>
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## sebasan (Aug 21, 2017)

I hope Canon realize that 5 years cycle of update it is too much. 3 years should be the goal. I know there are not too many advances, but the market is going to be very competitive


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## Jopa (Aug 21, 2017)

sebasan said:


> I hope Canon realize that 5 years cycle of update it is too much. 3 years should be the goal. I know there are not too many advances, but the market is going to be very competitive



If they're going to release a new 5dsr that will be about 3 years. Hope that's true! Not that I'm having any problems or limitations with the original one - I'm super excited


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## rjbray01 (Aug 21, 2017)

perhaps Canon's lacklustre performance is less due to commercial decisions and simply because they are having trouble competing technically. I suspect they have lost a lot of talented engineers and are simply unable to design and build the goods. 

Personally I don't buy into the line of thought that Canon are inhibiting 4K capabilities in order to avoid cannibalizing their Video camera line ... I think they are simply unable to design and build high quality 4K with highly compressed files because of heatsink problems ... 

Sometimes companies lose their good engineers and can't find adequate replacements.

Perhaps Canon are simply ******* for technical reasons ...


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## danski0224 (Aug 21, 2017)

Still hoping for a 50+ mp 1DsIV...


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 21, 2017)

rjbray01 said:


> perhaps Canon's lacklustre performance



...is a figment of your imagination.


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## hambergler (Aug 21, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> rjbray01 said:
> 
> 
> > perhaps Canon's lacklustre performance
> ...



Nikon down 10%
Canon as a company is flat over the last 5 years
Sony has tripled in value
S&P 500 has gone up 66%

Looking at it that way lackluster seems accurate.


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## Khufu (Aug 21, 2017)

To bring the naming conventions discussion over from another thread and to make it relevant to this thread's suggestion of an APS-C shake-up: I'm thoroughly excited about the forthcoming announcement of the 888D! It's about time the sub-77D users who have progressed beyond 800D standards had a camera to fulfill their needs!

Also: *Winter Olympics (not too pedantic to say so, is it?)


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## Maiaibing (Aug 21, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> The same source says the roadmap shows a replacement for the EOS 5DS and EOS 5DS R coming in 2018 as well.


That's when I stopped reading... CR-3


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## ethanz (Aug 21, 2017)

rjbray01 said:


> perhaps Canon's lacklustre performance is less due to commercial decisions and simply because they are having trouble competing technically. I suspect they have lost a lot of talented engineers and are simply unable to design and build the goods.
> 
> Personally I don't buy into the line of thought that Canon are inhibiting 4K capabilities in order to avoid cannibalizing their Video camera line ... I think they are simply unable to design and build high quality 4K with highly compressed files because of heatsink problems ...
> 
> ...



And where are all those engineers going to? Nikon and Sony? lol Do you have any proof?


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## rrcphoto (Aug 21, 2017)

Maiaibing said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > The same source says the roadmap shows a replacement for the EOS 5DS and EOS 5DS R coming in 2018 as well.
> ...



not sure why.

it has to be coming soon. canon said a 120MP DSLR was in development in September of 2015. Can't see it being anything but a 5Ds replacement.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 21, 2017)

hambergler said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > rjbray01 said:
> ...



that's only because they were near bankruptcy 5 years ago, and they got themselves back on even track selling off assets.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 21, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> In the next week or so, we’ll be seeing the announcement of at least 4 lenses, an <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/clarification-corrections-on-the-upcoming-new-lenses-from-canon-cr2/">EF 85mm f/1.4L IS as well as three new tilt shift lenses, a TS-50mm f/2.8L Macro, TS-90mm f/2.8L Macro and a TS-E 135mm f/4L Macro</a>. We’ll also see the EOS M100 mirrorless camera announced around the same time.</p>
> <p>We have seen mentions of a new entry level Rebel being announced, but we don’t usually hear too much about those.</p>
> <p>Beyond that, we aren’t going to be seeing new Canon DSLR until early 2018. We’ve been told that there is likely going to be a “shakeup” as far as prosumer APS-C DSLRs go.



maybe canon will go mirrorless with the cheaper APS-C line, especially now that the performance is adequate. if they can robotically build the mirrorless cameras, you'd think this would be the way canon will go long term. keep the EF mount, and the general ergonomics and shove an EVF in there and voila. an easier to build rebel.

now that'd be a shakeup.


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## Mikehit (Aug 21, 2017)

hambergler said:


> Nikon down 10%
> Canon as a company is flat over the last 5 years
> *Sony has tripled in value*
> S&P 500 has gone up 66%
> ...



It's easy to triple from a very small baseline in a specialist sector


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## Talys (Aug 21, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> hambergler said:
> 
> 
> > Nikon down 10%
> ...



Exactly 10 years ago today, Sony traded at $46.33. Today, Sony trades at $38.77 That's actually pretty bad  In 2008, it actually dropped below $20.

http://charting.nasdaq.com/ext/charts.dll?2-1-14-0-0-5120-03NA000000SNE-&SF:1|5-BG=FFFFFF-BT=0-WD=635-HT=395--XTBL-

But I mean, cameras are just a blip on Sony's financials. 




rjbray01 said:


> Personally I don't buy into the line of thought that Canon are inhibiting 4K capabilities in order to avoid cannibalizing their Video camera line ... I think they are simply unable to design and build high quality 4K with highly compressed files because of heatsink problems ...



Oh, I see. Canon doesn't sell a 4k camera because their engineers can't figure out how to build a 4k camera. You know, I'd say that theory were bang on, if only Canon didn't have a 4k camera. 

And yeah, I read on those interwebs that certain cameras were shooting very hot and even overheating shooting 4k. What brand was that? Hmmm. Maybe they're having trouble finding qualified engineers or something.


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## preppyak (Aug 22, 2017)

Talys said:


> And yeah, I read on those interwebs that certain cameras were shooting very hot and even overheating shooting 4k. What brand was that? Hmmm. Maybe they're having trouble finding qualified engineers or something.


I was getting overheating warnings in my A7r shooting 1080/24. Sure, it was 85-90 degrees out, but, my GH4 was trucking along nicely shooting 1080/60 and 4k/24 without issue.

Definitely a heatsink issue. Sony body is way too small to have enough heatsink, while the GH4 (with a m4/3 sensor) has an 80D size body


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## tron (Aug 22, 2017)

rjbray01 said:


> ...because of heatsink problems ...


Wow, very deep thought...


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## 9VIII (Aug 22, 2017)

sebasan said:


> I hope Canon realize that 5 years cycle of update it is too much. 3 years should be the goal. I know there are not too many advances, but the market is going to be very competitive



I almost wonder if this doesn't have more to do with Wi-Fi and touchscreen support than anything, but they'll throw in a new sensor for sure.

I'm still hoping Canon, someday, brings back APS-H. It's a long dead meme at this point, but that sure would shake up the enthusiast level market.


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## ahsanford (Aug 22, 2017)

On altering the 5 year refresh timing of the 7D line: _why?_ Because the D500 + 200-500 is stealing 7D2 business, flipping Canon users to Nikon, etc? I'll buy it when I see the data. But we have no data. The D500 is celebrated for its spec list and user experience, but that doesn't necessarily translate to converting Canonites. It might just be a nice product for Nikonians to enjoy and nothing more.

On a 5DS in 2018: Unlikely based on past timing/track record, but I'll actually say it's possible. I'm one of the people looking at the release calendar, past track record, etc. and arguing against Canon going any faster on a refresh than that 'level' of camera should warrant...

7D: 5 years
Most FF models: 4-ish years
XXD: 3 years
XXXD: 2 years

...but that creates an annoying 5DS syncopation / delay with the historical 1DX#/5D#/6D# rollout. Consider: the 5DS is now sitting without DPAF, touchscreen, 4K, Wifi, DPRAW or the larger base ISO DR performance of the 5D4 and 1DX2. So you can choose highest resolution *or *latest-gen tech.

So there is an argument for a one-time 'schedule quickening' for the 5DS to better line it up with the 5D4 so that there is no feature envy between the 5DS and 5D# lines.

- A


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## Chaitanya (Aug 22, 2017)

hambergler said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > rjbray01 said:
> ...


Interesting, somehow Sony has been growing at a steady rate while Canon seems to have stuck their head in ground disregarding Sony and other Mirrorless competition.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 22, 2017)

Chaitanya said:


> hambergler said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



interesting how sony hasn't been growing, simply recovering, and still not back from their financial collapse, their growth from that has little to do with cameras.

but keep on plugging it.. even a broken clock is right twice a day.


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## Jopa (Aug 22, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> Chaitanya said:
> 
> 
> > hambergler said:
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Sony is making significant profits from sensors (smartphones, industrial), not cameras (which is a separate division).

Also, too many trolls in this thread today... Wondering if that's because of the solar eclipse?


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## rbr (Aug 22, 2017)

9VIII said:


> I'm still hoping Canon, someday, brings back APS-H. It's a long dead meme at this point, but that sure would shake up the enthusiast level market.



I'd like that. I was out shooting with my trusty 1D4 today. I would love a similar camera with the latest AF and possibly a few more mp's.


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## Mikehit (Aug 22, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> 7D: 5 years
> Most FF models: 4-ish years
> XXD: 3 years
> XXXD: 2 years



Basing your estimate of 7D cycle on one product, and even that product is widely regarded as having been delayed due to late decision to incorporate an updated AF is stretching analysis a bit. 
And the FF releases have been 2,3, 4, and 5 years so specifying 4-ish leaves a lot of room for manoevure so the new 1Dx2 can be anything over 18 months away.


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## tron (Aug 22, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> On altering the 5 year refresh timing of the 7D line: _why?_ Because the D500 + 200-500 is stealing 7D2 business, flipping Canon users to Nikon, etc? I'll buy it when I see the data. But we have no data. The D500 is celebrated for its spec list and user experience, but that doesn't necessarily translate to converting Canonites. It might just be a nice product for Nikonians to enjoy and nothing more.
> 
> On a 5DS in 2018: Unlikely based on past timing/track record, but I'll actually say it's possible. I'm one of the people looking at the release calendar, past track record, etc. and arguing against Canon going any faster on a refresh than that 'level' of camera should warrant...
> 
> ...


On the contrary, I believe that maybe the difference gives Canon time to prepare for the next model. An alignment in announcement times would put more pressure to Canon.


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## traveller (Aug 22, 2017)

rbr said:


> 9VIII said:
> 
> 
> > I'm still hoping Canon, someday, brings back APS-H. It's a long dead meme at this point, but that sure would shake up the enthusiast level market.
> ...



You're in luck, Canon already produce such a camera! It's called the 1DX mark II:

https://downloads.canon.com/nw/camera/products/eos/1d-x-mark-ii/specifications/canon-eos-1dx-mkii-specification-chart.pdf


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## reef58 (Aug 22, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> On altering the 5 year refresh timing of the 7D line: _why?_ *Because the D500 + 200-500 is stealing 7D2 business*, flipping Canon users to Nikon, etc? I'll buy it when I see the data. But we have no data. The D500 is celebrated for its spec list and user experience, but that doesn't necessarily translate to converting Canonites. It might just be a nice product for Nikonians to enjoy and nothing more.
> 
> On a 5DS in 2018: Unlikely based on past timing/track record, but I'll actually say it's possible. I'm one of the people looking at the release calendar, past track record, etc. and arguing against Canon going any faster on a refresh than that 'level' of camera should warrant...
> 
> ...



I thought that may be a possibility also, but there was an article posted here a few weeks ago which insinuated the D500 was not selling very well. Who knows buy what you like take pictures and enjoy.


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## Chaitanya (Aug 22, 2017)

traveller said:


> rbr said:
> 
> 
> > 9VIII said:
> ...


He was getting nostalgic about APS-H format, while 1DX and Mk2 are both FF cameras. Currently I think only Sigma offers APS-H based cameras. Back in the day due to FF yields, APS-H might have been prefered in order to reduce cost of cameras, I dont see why Canon/Sony/Nikon would produce a APS-H camera today when they dont seem to have yield issues.


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## Sharlin (Aug 22, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> On a 5DS in 2018: Unlikely based on past timing/track record, but I'll actually say it's possible. I'm one of the people looking at the release calendar, past track record, etc. and arguing against Canon going any faster on a refresh than that 'level' of camera should warrant...
> 
> 7D: 5 years
> Most FF models: 4-ish years
> ...



I don't think there's any fundamental reason why Canon would stick to a five-year release cycle with the 7D series in particular. Why should it be on a different "level" than other pro/prosumer bodies, for instance? We only have a single datapoint and to me it seems it might be an exception rather than a rule. OTOH as the market and technology matures, there does seem to be a trend of less frequent releases - for many years Canon pushed out an xxD every two years and an xxxD every year!

I guess the 7D series—and the 6D series which shares the slow release cycle—is somewhat special compared to the well-established 1D, 5D, xxD, xxxD lines. In a sense they are "duals" of each other—the 6D being a slow, low-end FF and the 7D being a fast, high-end crop body. Canon may have considered the original 6D and 7D to be somewhat experimental and it wouldn't surprise me if there was some internal disagreement over whether either of the lines should be continued.


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## tron (Aug 22, 2017)

traveller said:


> rbr said:
> 
> 
> > 9VIII said:
> ...


1DXII is 20Mpixels. 27Mpixels are needed in order to get 16.1Mp cropped to APS-H.

(16 X 1.3^2) ~ 27. 

But taking into factor the excellent quality of 1DxII yes one could say that....


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## Luds34 (Aug 22, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > In the next week or so, we’ll be seeing the announcement of at least 4 lenses, an <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/clarification-corrections-on-the-upcoming-new-lenses-from-canon-cr2/">EF 85mm f/1.4L IS as well as three new tilt shift lenses, a TS-50mm f/2.8L Macro, TS-90mm f/2.8L Macro and a TS-E 135mm f/4L Macro</a>. We’ll also see the EOS M100 mirrorless camera announced around the same time.</p>
> ...



I think the "prosumer" xxD line would be a near ideal product to test out the waters of a mirrorless camera for Canon. And I agree, I feel DPAF has come along far enough (aka AI servo tracking) that they could give it a shot.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 22, 2017)

Chaitanya said:


> Interesting, somehow Sony has been growing at a steady rate while Canon seems to have stuck their head in ground disregarding Sony and other Mirrorless competition.



Mirrorless competition? Interesting that you missed the fact that Canon went from having no mirrorless models to being #2 in global MILC sales over the past 5 years. 

So any time you'd like to pull your head out of the ground and join reality, feel free.


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## tomscott (Aug 22, 2017)

To be honest, I think there are too many products in the line up and too many similar specced cameras. Its not a particularly simple line up. Naming structure has become a little odd like 750/760D 800D 77D I think these could all be amalgamated. 

I would like to see a more streamlined product range in both APC, FF and mirrorless. With each having its own number designation instead of staggering with random numbers inbetween.

Entry, mid and high, 3 cameras in each sector would suffice. Maybe one or two specific cameras, Canon did change tactic from a camera to do all approach to specific niche products and unfortunately DSLRs are getting more and more niche. It did make sence and I like having separate cameras for a different approach, but with some of the competition making middle of the road cameras with high end specs I don't know how much relevance all the above models have. Granted these cameras don't deliver quite what they promote and its more for headline grabbing but its impressive what is coming out of mid range expansion like the A6000 series.

I like the idea of obvious segregation.

Crop
900D 90D 7D or this could be renamed 9D

FF
6D 5D 1D

Niche
Small crop like 200D, High mp camera like the 5DSR as a 3D.

A line up that looks a little more obvious and like Canon used to produce. I think it would make it easier to keep on a 3 year schedule.


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## BillB (Aug 22, 2017)

tomscott said:


> To be honest, I think there are too many products in the line up and too many similar specced cameras. Its not a particularly simple line up. Naming structure has become a little odd like 750/760D 800D 77D I think these could all be amalgamated.
> 
> I would like to see a more streamlined product range in both APC, FF and mirrorless. With each having its own number designation instead of staggering with random numbers inbetween.
> 
> ...



The next cycle may well be a mix of optical viewfinder and electronic viewfinder (mirrorless) cameras, and could tend to keep the product lines somewhat scrambled. Will the 5DS upgrade be mirrorless? Will some of the existing OVF cameras stay in production as EVF "replacements" are introduced? Will there be an EVF camera with the 5DIV sensor between the 6D and the 5DIV?


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## transpo1 (Aug 22, 2017)

"...both the EOS 80D and EOS 7D Mark II are going to be ready for an update. Canon cannot wait 5 years again for a sequel to the EOS 7D Mark II.
We should also see our first 4K APS-C camera from Canon in 2018. Whether it is in mirrorless or DSLR form remains to be seen."

This translates to: Canon knows it needs to add 4K to its APS-C camera line FASTER than their usual product cycle. Which should put to bed all the 4K "oh, it's not important" naysayers on this thread. Canon's awesome market research is about to prove you wrong.


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## RGF (Aug 22, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> "...both the EOS 80D and EOS 7D Mark II are going to be ready for an update. Canon cannot wait 5 years again for a sequel to the EOS 7D Mark II.
> We should also see our first 4K APS-C camera from Canon in 2018. Whether it is in mirrorless or DSLR form remains to be seen."
> 
> This translates to: Canon knows it needs to add 4K to its APS-C camera line FASTER than their usual product cycle. Which should put to bed all the 4K "oh, it's not important" naysayers on this thread. Canon's awesome market research is about to prove you wrong.



Canon has been slow to upgrade cameras while Nikon has made a lot of incremental improvements. Somewhere in middle would be nice. Seems like lower end cameras (Rebels, 40/50/60/...D get updated quickly while higher end cameras have a much longer cycle). Like to see a new 7D and 5DS models soon.


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## willhuff.net (Aug 22, 2017)

I will throw all of my money at Canon if the next 5DS has over 60mp and 14 stops of DR.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 22, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> This translates to: Canon knows it needs to add 4K to its APS-C camera line FASTER than their usual product cycle. Which should put to bed all the 4K "oh, it's not important" naysayers on this thread. Canon's awesome market research is about to prove you wrong.



takes a very "special" person to talk smack about a rumor that is for a year from now and may not even come to fruition.


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## Sporgon (Aug 22, 2017)

BillB said:


> Will the 5DS upgrade be mirrorless?



No, because that would be a _downgrade_


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## Maiaibing (Aug 22, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...


Simply too soon. Would welcome a 120 MPIX camera any day. But Canon will want to let 5DS/R run its course. Canon FF DSLR's show progressively longer replacement cycles.


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## Maiaibing (Aug 22, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Consider: the 5DS is now sitting without DPAF, touchscreen, 4K, Wifi, DPRAW or the larger base ISO DR performance of the 5D4 and 1DX2. So you can choose highest resolution *or *latest-gen tech.
> 
> So there is an argument for a one-time 'schedule quickening' for the 5DS to better line it up with the 5D4 so that there is no feature envy between the 5DS and 5D# lines.
> 
> - A


5DS/R DR is close enough to 5DIV. The rest is irrelevant for many. Meanwhile the 5DS/R files remain the best not only from any Canon DSLR but any DSLR in the industry. Latest-gen tech does not challenge that. 

Of course Nikon's D850 seemingly will take the lead soon - but that hardly creates a "rush" for Canon.


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## Talys (Aug 23, 2017)

tomscott said:


> To be honest, I think there are too many products in the line up and too many similar specced cameras. Its not a particularly simple line up. Naming structure has become a little odd like 750/760D 800D 77D I think these could all be amalgamated.
> 
> I would like to see a more streamlined product range in both APC, FF and mirrorless. With each having its own number designation instead of staggering with random numbers inbetween.
> 
> ...



I think that Canon should use the Model / Mark X numbering system for everything that is numbered with a "D" for pro/enthusiast gear, so, 80D Mark II, for example. It would be so much more consistent, that way, and besides, prevent Canon from running into trouble at 99D.

For consumer models, I think they should just ditch xxxD and xxxxD, and go with incrementing numbers that start with a letter: T8i, SL3, etc. 

Mostly, I think this because there isn't really anything wrong with a zillion SKUs for the many, many market segments. It helps Canon and retailers "differentiate" essentially the same product, the same way that mattress manufacturers or home appliance makers do. They can discount something and put it in Costco or Amazon and then sell the same thing, with the tiniest of differences -- or none at all, save the product badge -- and put it in Best Buy, and then something else in the camera shop. It prevents the various retailers from having to price match, when a camera shop in a shopping center has a tough time selling at similar margins to Costco (often, they must pay a percentage to the mall).

At the enthusiast/pro level (let's just say, bodies > US$500), there could be some streamlining. When it came out, I thought the 77D was pretty cool, but actually, I take it back -- it doesn't really have a raison d'être. It isn't much different in price than an 80D, and is missing a lot of good stuff. 

However, looking at it long-term, _maybe it's the 80D that should go_. I would be ok with 7D Mk3 having all the best features of the 7D + 80D, and in a body the size of 80D (I think this would be possible). Price may be an issue, though. Then 77D would be the entry-level enthusiast camera, as it hits an important price point. My main issue with 77D is lack of pentaprism and AFMA, which drops its desirability... just tons. 

In my opinion, next 7D should have 4k video, or a version that has it, if only so that there's an APSC camera with 4k from Canon.

After that, the current lineup should be 3 FF cameras, 6D, 5D, 1D. I think that in the next iteration, Canon should just up the megapixel count of the 5D, and get rid of 5DSR. In the future, there would need to be numbering space for at least a FF mirrorless (4D?), and probably some new-fangled EF mount super megapixel camera. I don't think most people really want 150megapixels, though it would be great for the computer industry to sell high powered machines to process the ginormous RAW and TIFFs that would ensue 

Finally... Make no mistake, I'm an OVF guy. But looking down the yellow brick road, I think that the path to success is to go mirrorless on nearly everything without pentaprism. So, a tiny number of APSC models with an OVF, maybe just something like a T7i and 77D. 

But hell, what do I know!


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## 9VIII (Aug 23, 2017)

Chaitanya said:


> traveller said:
> 
> 
> > rbr said:
> ...



No matter what the yields, APS-H will be lower cost, and the mirror is smaller so it could still have some sports application, and with almost every Full Frame body doing heavy cropping on 4K video maybe APS-H would be outright superior in that application.
Remember Canon is still making their 120MP prototypes in APS-H, it's a format they do still appreciate to some extent.
If Canon were to make a "cheaper" Big MP camera, then APS-H might be the ideal there too.
I do worry that if they do a 50MP APS-C body it might end up with excessively small pixels if they try to give it DPAF as well, but with APS-H they could probably pull it off while maintaining similar same IQ as the 80D.
Actually 40MP might be preferred overall because the pixels line up almost perfectly with an 8K video frame.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 23, 2017)

Maiaibing said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Maiaibing said:
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it's been "in development" for nearly 2 years now, next year will be three. doesn't take them longer than that.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 23, 2017)

9VIII said:


> Remember Canon is still making their 120MP prototypes in APS-H, it's a format they do still appreciate to some extent.



they don't do that because it's the largest sensor they can do using single exposure without stitching


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## RGF (Aug 23, 2017)

Canon's camera structure makes sense but is somewhat fragment. Pardon me if my description of the segments is off slightly.

FF Crop
Sports/Action 1DX M2 7D M2
High Quality/general purpose 5D M4 80D
High Resolution 5Ds/sR N/A
Entry Level 6D M2 Rebel

What is missing? Segments are well defined and differentiated.
Weak cameras are 7D M2, 5DsR, and might argue that the 5D M4 will face a challenge from Nikon D850. The D850 is positioned against both the 5DM4 and 5Ds. Canon is trying to split the market (sandwich their products above and below the D850), though that strategy may not work well if the D850 matches its specs.


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## Jopa (Aug 23, 2017)

Maiaibing said:


> The rest is irrelevant for many.



Mostly true. I don't mind if they update the sensor to increase DR, and maybe add an extra FPS. The Wifi card is around $40. 4k? I have a 1dx2 for that purpose.


----------



## unfocused (Aug 23, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> ...by the time 2018 rolls around, both the EOS 80D and EOS 7D Mark II are going to be ready for an update. Canon cannot wait 5 years again for a sequel to the EOS 7D Mark II.</p>



Why would the 80D be ready for an update? It's perfectly slotted for the market and has superior performance. More likely, the 7DIII will come in 2018 and then, after it has been on the market for awhile with a new sensor, the 90D will surface in 2019, with the same sensor as the 7DIII, restoring the relationship that Canon had with the 7D and 60D.


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## ecka (Aug 23, 2017)

Perhaps there would be no camera "cannibalism" if Canon series were not starving for competitive features.


----------



## RGF (Aug 23, 2017)

ecka said:


> Perhaps there would be no camera "cannibalism" if Canon series were not starving for competitive features.



Cannibalism happens when someone makes a choice between two competing products. If Canon products were so vastly superior to competitors and there was no product overlaps, then there would not be any cannibalism. However the second someone has to pick between products, one product cannibalizes the other. Marketing 101


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## Mikehit (Aug 23, 2017)

RGF said:


> ecka said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps there would be no camera "cannibalism" if Canon series were not starving for competitive features.
> ...



+1

'Cannibalising' and 'crippling' and 'segmentation' have become knee-jerk way of criticising Canon with people who use them often not understanding what they mean or that every manufacturer does it.


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## tomscott (Aug 23, 2017)

I understand canons safety aspect to their products. They are excellent and so well refined and complete tools.

This is my argument with the 6DMKII its an amalgamation of all the best features of the top tier canon products over the last 5 years, ok yes 5 years... but its an entry level product and the fact you can have all those qualities means it is a great value proposition when 5DMKIIIs are more still more expensive (over £200) and the 5DMKIV is between £1-1500 more expensive. Ok it doesn't have 4K but I doubt anyone uses the 4K capture in the 5D because its such a poor codec, apart from the extra stop of DR and 4mp of resolution and a few AF advancements there isnt a huge deal of difference which is why £1000 imo isnt currently worth it. If you look at things objectively. Although day to day these do add up to a hefty upgrade and plan to buy one.

Dont get me wrong I think the 5DMKIV is (like the 5DMKIII) the best all round camera on the market. But when it comes down in price a little more it will be a better value proposition for what it offers, especially for current 5DMKIII owners there isnt a huge reason to upgrade as its an excellent camera and by the time they trade in your looking at £2000 to change, the MKIV is def not worth £2k more.

Canon isnt always safe like the 5DS/R which was so good to see! Innovation, market leading qualities in a body that people are used to! Otherwise the products have been a little too safe and too much repetition which is why there is canibalisim. If you are spending £3-3500 on a camera you want it to tick everything possible on the current trending features list whether you need it or not, it may not be relevant now but it will be down the line. Even £1000 is a lot of money to most consumers and getting people to part with that money and not seeing trending features is obviously a hard sell.

Again objectively 4K for the average person is not really suitable, the rig needs to be substantial to edit the video and most people wont have 4k monitors but maybe a TV. 4K is well and truly here but I would argue it is still a niche for prosumers delivering content. Saying that I dont see average wedding videographers using canons cinema line because its too big of an investment so most shoot with panasonic or sony cameras which offer similar features at less than half the price. Although their rigs do look like transformers and a complete pain to use as they weren't designed to primarily be video cameras.

I would say there is still plenty of a shake up coming. Stats look good in the short term as the brand loyalty lies but what about the long term, you cant rely on loyalty forever.


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## jedy (Aug 23, 2017)

Maybe in the future Canon could be looking to their EOSM cameras as their consumer lineup, replacing consumer aps-c dslr's?? If you think about it, first time buyers/amateur hobbyists aren't going to have lots of lenses - possibly only the kit lens, so losing the ef-s mount might not be such a big issue. Also, consumers tend not to invest in newer bodies anywhere near as much as professionals so may be happy to continue using older cameras for longer (especially with a healthy secondhand market). As mirrorless tech gets better and more cost effective and are smaller, I could see this as a more attractive option for Canon's lineup in the future. Just a thought though!


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## jedy (Aug 23, 2017)

tomscott said:


> Again objectively 4K for the average person is not really suitable, the rig needs to be substantial to edit the video and most people wont have 4k monitors but maybe a TV. 4K is well and truly here but I would argue it is still a niche for prosumers delivering content. Saying that I dont see average wedding videographers using canons cinema line because its too big of an investment so most shoot with panasonic or sony cameras which offer similar features at less than half the price. Although their rigs do look like transformers and a complete pain to use as they weren't designed to primarily be video cameras.


I agree that 4K in dslrs/mirrorless is extremely niche in its use - doesn't stop consumers demanding it, sadly. If only camera companies would focus on top notch HD video and leave 4K to the proper video cameras! The internet can't currently cope with huge volumes of 4K streams and TV still only offers a handful of HD channels, let alone 4K. Also, the cost to set up a computer to edit 4K is huge.


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## ecka (Aug 23, 2017)

RGF said:


> ecka said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps there would be no camera "cannibalism" if Canon series were not starving for competitive features.
> ...



I know what the metaphor means . I'm just saying that Canons marketing politics are to blame.

If 5D/7D series had dual CF slots or dual XQD slots, then 6D/80D could have dual SD slots. Otherwise, dual SD can be considered a better option than two different slots. The whole card format mixing decision was a bad idea.
Vari-angle touch screen is a great feature. Why high-end EOS cameras don't have those? I think at least one of the 5Ds/5DsR should have it.
Where's focus peaking, zebra, proper 4K, uncompressed video out, etc? DPAF is nice, but without the rest of the "must-have video package" it's not that important in $2000+ cameras. People with that kind of budget are thinking Sony(vs)Panasonic (not C100 vs C300 vs 1DX2), because these days Canon is a real lackluster in some departments. If DPAF is only for catching up with mirrorless, then why don't they implement the optional EVF usage on Canon DSLR hot-shoe? Why can't they put a radio transmitter (for flash) inside the camera body? There are dozens of things they could fix and improve. If others can do it, why can't Canon?


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 23, 2017)

ecka said:


> There are dozens of things they could fix and improve. If others can do it, why can't Canon?



They can. Why should they?


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## ecka (Aug 23, 2017)

jedy said:


> tomscott said:
> 
> 
> > Again objectively 4K for the average person is not really suitable, the rig needs to be substantial to edit the video and most people wont have 4k monitors but maybe a TV. 4K is well and truly here but I would argue it is still a niche for prosumers delivering content. Saying that I dont see average wedding videographers using canons cinema line because its too big of an investment so most shoot with panasonic or sony cameras which offer similar features at less than half the price. Although their rigs do look like transformers and a complete pain to use as they weren't designed to primarily be video cameras.
> ...



I think the question is - Why bother buying new expensive high-res cameras? If you don't have a proper UHD display and a computer to handle it in the first place. You have to upgrade all of your toys accordingly to keep everything in balance. Otherwise some things will always seem like overkill, while other (dated) things will struggle to keep up.
And another question is - Don't you know that 4K is being used for producing superior 1080p content? For downsampling, cropping, stabilizing, etc. It's not a gimmick. You don't need it, because you don't use it. But it doesn't mean that the stuff you are watching in 1080p wasn't shot in 4K or even more K.
Conservatism is bad for progress and development. And who's watching TV in the 21st century anyways?  The Internet can't cope with 4K? Really? Well, maybe in Africa or North Korea. I'm watching 4K regularly (no problem) and it's beautiful on 40"(ish) UHD monitors. Even on 1080p display there's an obvious quality boost when viewing 4K (2160p) or 2.5K (1440p) content.


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## BillB (Aug 23, 2017)

jedy said:


> tomscott said:
> 
> 
> > Again objectively 4K for the average person is not really suitable, the rig needs to be substantial to edit the video and most people wont have 4k monitors but maybe a TV. 4K is well and truly here but I would argue it is still a niche for prosumers delivering content. Saying that I dont see average wedding videographers using canons cinema line because its too big of an investment so most shoot with panasonic or sony cameras which offer similar features at less than half the price. Although their rigs do look like transformers and a complete pain to use as they weren't designed to primarily be video cameras.
> ...



How many consumers are demanding 4K? There are some 4k ranters on the forums, including this one, but how many sales would they add up to? My guess is that most DSLR consumers want decent quality hassle free video. At the other end, why would a consumer who really wants 4K buy a DSLR to get it?


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## Mikehit (Aug 23, 2017)

ecka said:


> because these days Canon don't build in functions that a small but very vocal and noisy minority believe they should pander to.



Fixed that for ya!


----------



## Maiaibing (Aug 23, 2017)

RGF said:


> Weak cameras are 7D M2, _*5DsR, *_



When the Canon camera that makes the best picture files in the world from any DSLR and beats the 5DIII in each and every aspect except fps (but is close) gets designated "weak"...  :  :  :


----------



## R1-7D (Aug 23, 2017)

Maiaibing said:


> RGF said:
> 
> 
> > Weak cameras are 7D M2, _*5DsR, *_
> ...



No kidding. I have a 5D3, 5DSR, 1DX and 1DX2 ...and the 5DSR is definitely not 'weak'. In fact, I just came back from a European vacation and I chose to take both the 5DSR and the 1DX2, with the 5DSR getting by far the most usage. Its got plenty of dynamic range, and the noise levels are quite acceptable, in my opinion, up to 3200 ISO. 

The 5DSR is just a fantastic camera. Anyone who uses one regularly will tell you so.


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## transpo1 (Aug 23, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > This translates to: Canon knows it needs to add 4K to its APS-C camera line FASTER than their usual product cycle. Which should put to bed all the 4K "oh, it's not important" naysayers on this thread. Canon's awesome market research is about to prove you wrong.
> ...



Takes a very "special" person to *refute* a rumor that is *less than* a year from now and *may* come to fruition. 

Fixed that for you 8)


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## dak723 (Aug 23, 2017)

scyrene said:


> ...
> And as for your other points, well - actually, 4K content takes a lot longer to download/is much more demanding to stream no matter where you live. Is it worth the extra wait/lower reliability? Is 4K tv worth the extra cost (even assuming it's available, which is not the case in the UK for most content)? I'd argue for most stuff, it doesn't matter. It's not like classic tv and films became obsolete the moment HD came along. Content always trumps presentation. To an extent, higher res *is* a gimmick - when it's presented as an end in itself, rather than a tool to improve content (which is only the case for certain genres, I'd argue).



Extremely well said.


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## transpo1 (Aug 23, 2017)

scyrene said:


> ecka said:
> 
> 
> > jedy said:
> ...



The obtuseness of the anti-4K crowd always gets me. No one ever argued when Canon comes out with a megapixel bump on their latest camera but when talk turns to increased video resolution (yes, even on DSLRs and ILCs, as video is becoming as important as stills), people like you always shoot it down. Sorry, but video quality is getting to the point where it's equally important on almost ANY camera and stills photographers will just have to play along. Canon is an imaging company, and the video image they output should be of the utmost quality as well.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 23, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> The obtuseness of the anti-4K crowd...



The anti-4K crowd is just like the anti-DR crowd. Neither actually exist.


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## Mikehit (Aug 23, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> Sorry, but video quality is getting to the point where it's equally important on almost ANY camera ...



Very true.
But 'equally important' does not mean 'important'. It can mean it is equally irrelevant in all cameras, or it is equally of interest or it can mean it is equally vital. 

I will give you a hint - it does not mean what you like it to mean


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## BillB (Aug 23, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > ecka said:
> ...



Actually, quite a few people are saying that they won't upgrade their 5DIII or 6D to get the megapixel bump that comes with the replacement cameras. How many people are going to buy a camera to get 4K video? Asking the question doesn't make anybody anti-4K.


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## ecka (Aug 24, 2017)

BillB said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > scyrene said:
> ...



Well, maybe these people won't upgrade their 5D3 or 6D *ONLY* to get more pixels, *BECAUSE* of the feature stagnation in those new cameras.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 24, 2017)

ecka said:


> The problem is that the vastly ignorant majority is preaching their ignorance to high-tech-hungry minority...



So, you believe that those who don't share your opinion and priorities are ignorant. Please take your bigotry somewhere else, we don't need it here.


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## YuengLinger (Aug 24, 2017)

I regret having dipped into this sadly familiar thread. So many pointless repetitions of Canon bashing. Is there a word for deriving pleasure from aggravating others purely for the sake of aggravating others? 

Not sure why I or anybody engages with trolls. Reflex?


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## BillB (Aug 24, 2017)

ecka said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > ecka said:
> ...



There is some satisfaction in learning that we in the vastly ignorant majority are thwarting the yearnings of the high-tech-hungry minority by stubbornly refusing to subsidize the development of the features that they hope for, just by refusing to buy cameras that we don't want or need.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 24, 2017)

mppix said:


> Bigotry?



Yes.

*big·ot·ry* ˈbiɡətrē _noun_: intolerance toward those who hold different opinions from oneself


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## LonelyBoy (Aug 24, 2017)

ecka said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > ecka said:
> ...



1) Why should I subsidize your hunger for unnecessary features?
2) Do you really want the "ignorant majority" to stop buying big cameras (for snapshots or otherwise) and shrink the market further and drive prices even higher?

Just remember, evolution sometimes drives species to extinction...


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## Talys (Aug 24, 2017)

BillB said:


> There is some satisfaction in learning that we in the vastly ignorant majority are thwarting the yearnings of the high-tech-hungry minority by stubbornly refusing to subsidize the development of the features that they hope for, just by refusing to buy cameras that we don't want or need.



For some reason, I couldn't stop laughing when I read this.


----------



## transpo1 (Aug 24, 2017)

BillB said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > scyrene said:
> ...



Hopefully, one day that question will be answered when Canon implements better 4K throughout their product range. By the way, people around here do more than ask the question- they question the validity of the ask and label those who do ask "trolls."


----------



## ecka (Aug 24, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> ecka said:
> 
> 
> > Mikehit said:
> ...



1) There are plenty of unnecessary features in these cameras already. Why not add a few more? It wouldn't hurt.
2) No. The ignorant majority is not buying the same big cameras (big cameras meaning not smartphones or point&shoots). They are buying lesser cameras, but even those are too much for them, so they think that a better camera is an absolute overkill for anyone and nobody could possibly ever need it.


----------



## BillB (Aug 24, 2017)

ecka said:


> BillB said:
> 
> 
> > ecka said:
> ...



Thanks for clearing that up. You sure had me fooled


----------



## transpo1 (Aug 24, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > The obtuseness of the anti-4K crowd...
> ...



Ha! You make me laugh, Neuro. There is most definitely an anti-4K squad here, labeling those who want the features "trolls" at the drop of a hat.


----------



## transpo1 (Aug 24, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> mppix said:
> 
> 
> > Bigotry?
> ...



Neuro, you accusing someone else on here of "bigotry" is the height of irony. How many have been at the receiving ends of snide or condescending remarks because their opinion differs from yours? I had another good laugh, though- "Never let the truth stand in the way of a good story."


----------



## dak723 (Aug 24, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > transpo1 said:
> ...



*Squad*: A small group...

*Crowd:* A large number of persons...

Perhaps unwittingly, your choice of words has reinforced Neuro's point.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> Neuro, you accusing someone else on here of "bigotry" is the height of irony. How many have been at the receiving ends of snide or condescending remarks because their opinion differs from yours? I had another good laugh, though- "Never let the truth stand in the way of a good story."



Sure, I have ridiculed a few people who have made ridiculous statements and spouted opinions that clearly fly in the face of established fact. 

That's not even close to calling the 'vast majority' of people on this forum 'ignorant'. But perhaps you find that funny, which says much about you, and none of it good.


----------



## Mikehit (Aug 25, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> Hopefully, one day that question will be answered when Canon implements better 4K throughout their product range. By the way, people around here do more than ask the question- they question the validity of the ask and label those who do ask "trolls."



Canon will implement 4k. I am absolutely sure of that, but I am equally sure it is not high in their priorities right now.
People do not doubt the validity of the questions, but they do doubt two things: first they doubt the validity of claims that 'Canon do not give me what I want, and give it to me right now, Canon do not know what they are doing' and when someone does explain why they are happy with what Canon are doing, and explain why they understand why Canon did it they label those people are immediately labelled as 'fanboys' and 'shills' (and you have done this so it is a bit rich saying what you did). 
And the complainers come back time and again, and whine about the same things on multiple threads, then they should not be surprised if they are called 'trolls'


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2017)

ecka said:


> The difference is that I want more, I'm ready for more, I need more ... and you don't, you can't handle more, you are afraid of more. You are too limited.



Well, that's just because you know better than him what he wants and needs, and you know better than everyone else, too. You want an articulating touch screen, so everyone needs one. You want focus peaking and zebras, so everyone needs them. Anyone who doesn't is ignorant, limited and afraid of change. 

Truly, you have a dizzying intellect. It will probably help you in life, just as much as it helped the Sicilian.


----------



## gsealy (Aug 25, 2017)

Canon doesn't have an answer for the Panasonic GH5. Lots and lots of filmmakers are buying that camera.


----------



## rsdofny (Aug 25, 2017)

Quite frankly, Canon has way too many cameras, and can easily benefited from streamlining its lineup. 


Quoted
[maybe canon will go mirrorless with the cheaper APS-C line, especially now that the performance is adequate. if they can robotically build the mirrorless cameras, you'd think this would be the way canon will go long term. keep the EF mount, and the general ergonomics and shove an EVF in there and voila. an easier to build rebel.]


----------



## Mikehit (Aug 25, 2017)

gsealy said:


> Canon doesn't have an answer for the Panasonic GH5. Lots and lots of filmmakers are buying that camera.



And why should they?
The Panasonic range has majored on video as a USP. Canon majors on stills. What is hard to understand?


----------



## mistaspeedy (Aug 25, 2017)

Canon can make much better cameras, and give many more video features etc, but they are holding off to make better profits and protect their margins on their more expensive gear.

The give us features when they absolutely must, and not a second before. If and when their market share is threatened, they will react... until then... each and every year they can get away with it, means more profits for them.

The worst possible thing that Canon could do for their own profits is give us a camera like the D850.

There is no longer any need to own multiple camera bodies, besides those needing the absolute fastest framerate.

Want more reach? Buy an APS-C body.
Want higher resolution? Buy a 5DsR
Want 4K video? Buy a: 5D mark IV or 1DX mark II
Want a fast framerate? Buy a 1DX mark II.

The D850 covers all of the above in a single body.
No matter what Canon you buy, you need a 2nd or 3rd body if you want it all.

The 5D mark III can now do 4K RAW video.... and the only thing stopping it being even better is card write speed.
The Canon 50D, which doesn't even shoot video by default, can do RAW video at close to 1080p too.

Magic Lantern is a good example of how Canon artificially limits their hardware.


----------



## ethanz (Aug 25, 2017)

mistaspeedy said:


> Canon can make much better cameras, and give many more video features etc, but they are holding off to make better profits and protect their margins on their more expensive gear.
> 
> The give us features when they absolutely must, and not a second before. If and when their market share is threatened, they will react... until then... each and every year they can get away with it, means more profits for them.
> 
> ...



Have there even been any sample images from the D850 yet? We don't know if it has the low light capabilities of the 1dx2. It certainly doesn't have the frame rates. Who knows if the video is any good. I think it is still too early and probably won't ever be able to say that "The D850 covers all of the above in a single body."


----------



## mistaspeedy (Aug 25, 2017)

I agree that it is still too early to know how it performs.

Regardless... Canon has been purposely holding back on too many products for too long. Things that most other manufacturers have already had for years.
The Panasonic GH2 beats all Canon DSLRs in video clarity besides those that shoot 4K.
If you want something that beats the $1,000 GH2 (released in 2011) and are not willing to hack your firmware with Magic Lantern, then you need to spend at least ‎$3,299.00 today on a 5D mark IV in 2017. Otherwise, 6 whole years later, Canon has yet to answer it.



gsealy said:


> Canon doesn't have an answer for the Panasonic GH5. Lots and lots of filmmakers are buying that camera.



They still need to beat the GH2 at a realistic price point.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Aug 25, 2017)

mistaspeedy said:


> I agree that it is still too early to know how it performs.
> 
> Regardless... Canon has been purposely holding back on too many products for too long. Things that most other manufacturers have already had for years.
> The Panasonic GH2 beats all Canon DSLRs in video clarity besides those that shoot 4K.
> ...



Why do you believe Canon must be all things to all people? Panasonic certainly isn't. If you prefer the GH5, or the GH2, go ahead and buy it. Why haven't you? Why do you insist Canon gives you what you want when Panasonic (allegedly) already offers it?


----------



## mistaspeedy (Aug 26, 2017)

For me it's all the same... I have super ancient and cheap Canon equipment. I like Canon.

I just don't like it when manufacturers do things like this... Intel has been doing the same thing in the CPU arena for years due to lack of proper competition. Now with some proper competition from AMD, they are finally releasing some decent stuff.

The Nikon D850 is the best news for all Canon shooters.... as well as other cameras from the competition marching forward in leaps and bounds. (Sony a6500, Sony a9 etc).
Sony seem to do everything well, and Nikon seem to be heading in that direction.

Canon can only let others get so far ahead before answering them... and they will in time.

Canon answered the 4K question in full frame cameras.
Canon answered the on-sensor ADC and dynamic range advantages in their new sensors.
Canon answered the need for a very high resolution body (5DsR)

... and they will answer the other requests when they feel the heat...

Heat is currently being applied from all sides 

It's just a matter of time.


Btw... I'm considering jumping to something like the a6000.


----------



## dak723 (Aug 26, 2017)

mistaspeedy said:


> I agree that it is still too early to know how it performs.
> 
> Regardless... Canon has been purposely holding back on too many products for too long. Things that most other manufacturers have already had for years.
> The Panasonic GH2 beats all Canon DSLRs in video clarity besides those that shoot 4K.
> ...



Yes, companies often spend more resources and have more and better patents that allow them to be industry leaders in certain areas. Panasonic has long been known as a leader in video.

So, your point is what exactly? That Canon should be the leader in video technology just 'cause you want them to? Yes, maybe they can twirl there magic wand and be better than Panasonic in video. I'm sure it is just that easy!


----------



## Admin US West (Aug 26, 2017)

*I seldom resort to Bans, but I can and do BAN users, even those with lots of posts when they continue to insult others after a warning. I have also issued warnings.

If you directly insult other members be prepared to get the boot.

If someone is insulting YOU, report it.*


----------



## Maddy262 (Aug 26, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> In the next week or so, we’ll be seeing the announcement of at least 4 lenses, an <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/clarification-corrections-on-the-upcoming-new-lenses-from-canon-cr2/">EF 85mm f/1.4L IS as well as three new tilt shift lenses, a TS-50mm f/2.8L Macro, TS-90mm f/2.8L Macro and a TS-E 135mm f/4L Macro</a>. We’ll also see the EOS M100 mirrorless camera announced around the same time.</p>
> <p>We have seen mentions of a new entry level Rebel being announced, but we don’t usually hear too much about those.</p>
> <p>Beyond that, we aren’t going to be seeing new Canon DSLR until early 2018. We’ve been told that there is likely going to be a “shakeup” as far as prosumer APS-C DSLRs go. The source is trying to find out what the “shake-up will be”, but I think by the time 2018 rolls around, both the EOS 80D and EOS 7D Mark II are going to be ready for an update. Canon cannot wait 5 years again for a sequel to the EOS 7D Mark II.</p>
> 
> ...


So eager to see the new Canon Lenses


----------



## ethanz (Aug 26, 2017)

CR Backup Admin said:


> be prepared to get the boot.




THE BOOT


----------



## danski0224 (Aug 26, 2017)

sebasan said:


> I hope Canon realize that 5 years cycle of update it is too much. 3 years should be the goal. I know there are not too many advances, but the market is going to be very competitive



As a hobbyist, having the discretionary income to do a roughly $3k camera purchase every 3 years (or even 5) is a lot... and that isn't at new 1DX pricing. With the release of the 1DXII, used prices for the first one have tanked.

I would very much like a high megapixel sensor from Canon in a 1D series body. For me, that would be a worthwhile upgrade, and I hope that Canon does it soon because I don't have a reason to buy more from Canon unless something more than an incremental upgrade comes around the next time.

The latest lens updates, especially the 135mm T/S (wanting, but waiting), suggest to me that there is something coming that will utilize these updated lenses.


----------



## rjbray01 (Aug 27, 2017)

A number of posts are suggesting that 4K isn't wanted or needed by the majority. I find this quite amazing. 4K televisions are everywhere now and they are a fraction of the price of even an 80D. I have a 60" 4K TV and watch 4K Netflix programmes on it the picture quality is absolutely stunning - just no comparison to "old fashioned TV". 

I would dearly love to produce video with the same sort of resolution as Netflix 4K !

I would shoot a lot of 4K video with my 5D-IV if it weren't for the absolutely huge files it produces and the post-processing time and video file size eating up my hard disks. 

If Canon could find a way to give me an option to shoot the same video quality I see on Netflix (which is streamed on demand ...) - especially if the images weren't cropped and with files which were compressed (MP4 ?) in such a way that they required no post-processing and lower disk space - then I for one would be absolutely delighted.

I'm a hobbyist - but I shoot 100s of pictures on most of my days of work and absolutely love my 5D-iv

There is absolutely no way I'm going to carry a second camera around for video - but if my 5D could do both then I'm certain I would shoot video in 4K frequently - even if only clips.

I'm very heavily invested in Canon lenses - as I suspect most people on this forum are - and I'm frustrated that it seems like I'm going to have to wait years for 4K to be available in a Canon DSLR which is as user-friendly as say the GH5. 

As I've already said earlier I can't help suspecting that Canon's A team of engineers have walked ... perhaps somewhere else in Canon to where profits are higher ... in which case it could be a long haul ...


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## tron (Aug 28, 2017)

mistaspeedy said:


> For me it's all the same... I have super ancient and cheap Canon equipment. I like Canon.
> 
> I just don't like it when manufacturers do things like this... Intel has been doing the same thing in the CPU arena for years due to lack of proper competition. Now with some proper competition from AMD, they are finally releasing some decent stuff.
> 
> ...


Talking about "heat" it is almost certain that you will feel it too if you jump to something like a6000 ;D ;D ;D


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## tron (Aug 29, 2017)

5DsR MkII could keep the same Mpixel count, get the 5DIV sensor technology (or better) and increase the fps from 5 to 7 (with an increase in buffer space and possibly a UHS-II SD card). If they do that I believe they will have a worthy opponent of D850...


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## SecureGSM (Aug 29, 2017)

tron, if 80D sensor is something to go by, then we can expect 5DsR II sensor to be 60+ Mb in size. 7 fps seems a bit too much for such a resolution. 5fps or 6 fps I would imagine.



tron said:


> 5DsR MkII could keep the same Mpixel count, get the 5DIV sensor technology (or better) and increase the fps from 5 to 7 (with an increase in buffer space and possibly a UHS-II SD card). If they do that I believe they will have a worthy opponent of D850...


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## tron (Aug 29, 2017)

SecureGSM said:


> tron, if 80D sensor is something to go by, then we can expect 5DsR II sensor to be 60+ Mb in size. 7 fps seems a bit too much for such a resolution. 5fps or 6 fps I would imagine.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If they kept it at 50Mp 7fps could be more realistic. Remember that 5DsR has dual digic and I see no reason why the update wouldn't have (including a newer digic). I know I am at a thin line between realism and wishful thinking but I mentioned what I believe would make it a worthy D850 opponent...


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## SecureGSM (Aug 29, 2017)

tron,

D850 is pushing 400Mb/s throughput level with 45Mp x 9 fps = 400Mb/s give or take.

if this is what we can hope for in 5DsR II, then 400 / 60Mp = 6.5 -ish frames per second and slightly pushing it may be... 7fps. I am very tempted, honestly.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 30, 2017)

canon already pre-announced what the 5DS R II will be.

it's 120MP. you just don't do a public corporate news announcement on development of a product for nothing.

the better question to ask, will it be over 3 fps. lol.

if it has 4K it would have to be binning, because there's no way in a world it could be a crop.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 30, 2017)

RickSpringfield said:


> Here's hoping that Canon consolidates all of the 5D camera bodies into a single camera called the 'Canon 5DSr Mark II'.
> 
> It seems possible to make a FF camera with high megapixels, without an AA filter, include a headphone jack/focus peaking/zebras/useable encoded full sensor 4k, WiFi, GPS, 7-9 FPS for stills, a flippy touch screen, weather seal it, and include in body image stabilization, the ability to shoot at a lower RAW MP if/when wanted/needed, and dual card slots.
> 
> ...



I don't think that makes sense and I, personally, don't want it.

I have said for a long time three 5D models makes most sense to me:-
1: A video centric 5DC, lower resolution optimized for video, C Log, peaking, zebras, blah blah. 
2: The general purpose 5D Mk!, most people don't want mega high resolution or pay a video premium, they want an optimized general purpose camera with a decent framerate (that doesn't require $916 worth of extras to achieve) and resolution high enough for general outputs yet small enough to work with in event type volume, along with mid level video features just because.
3: 5DSR Mk! An out and out photographer centric body with the 'best' high resolution sensor Canon can make in any generation.

R&D costs will be spread across the three lower selling bodies and savings could be made with some shared components. But as it makes sense to me it is certain to not happen!


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## ahsanford (Aug 30, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> canon already pre-announced what the 5DS R II will be.
> 
> it's 120MP. you just don't do a public corporate news announcement on development of a product for nothing.



You're so right. That 120 MP sensor will pair nicely with that new 600mm DO lens I picked up. :

Not everything at Canon Expo (a) will make it to market and (b) is intended for general photography use. Such a sensor might be a better fit industrial or security applications and we might not see it in a traditional camera body for many years.

It's also possible that those that will give top dollar for the highest possible detail in an FF rig are far far far fewer than those that will do the same for a more balanced rig (fps, better low light performance, etc.). Consider: Nikon only jumped from 36 to 45MP despite (apparently) having 400+ MP/s throughput capability. They could have just as easily churned out an 80 MP x 5 fps rig for the D850, but they apparently either wanted a classic 'best' balance of detail/fps or 80 MP output didn't produce the output they wanted.

I just don't think we'll see a stratospheric bump in resolution with the 5DSR 2 like that. I'd guess 'more' MP broadly, but not a figure that high.

- A


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## Mikehit (Aug 30, 2017)

RickSpringfield said:


> Here's hoping that Canon consolidates all of the 5D camera bodies into a single camera called the 'Canon 5DSr Mark II'.
> 
> It seems possible to make a FF camera with high megapixels, without an AA filter, include a headphone jack/focus peaking/zebras/useable encoded full sensor 4k, WiFi, GPS, 7-9 FPS for stills, a flippy touch screen, weather seal it, and include in body image stabilization, the ability to shoot at a lower RAW MP if/when wanted/needed, and dual card slots.
> 
> ...



Remarkable how 'wishlisters' casually throw in comments like '3,700 if they must but 2,900 would be great'. Make it sound like 3,700 for a body like that is excessive. And then just knock of 1,000 bucks for the hell of it. But why stop there - why not 2,000. Or why not ask for a 100MP 1Dx2 for the cost of a Rebel? 


I agree that Sony is drawing people. But mainly those for whom 4K video in a stills camera is essential - and what many fail to realise is they are precious few. Growing, yes, but a small increase in a small market area looks great, doesn't it.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 30, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > canon already pre-announced what the 5DS R II will be.
> ...



canon never did a product development announcement for the 600 DO.

they did so for both CINI EOS 8K and 120MP DSLR. it's an issued official press / news annoucement from Canon Japan that it is in development. The actual statement stated "now being developed" not "will be developed" not "is being considered for development" but "now being developed".

Canon has officially stated a 1 series body takes around 3 years to develop. Assuming a proverbial 5D body takes the same amount of time, we are looking at 2018. I doubt anyone is going to suggest that a 1 series will take less time than a 5D.

Since statements of this nature are legally binding because it can bear weight on stock price, far more care is given to that than a prototype mockup at a show.

_Canon Inc. announced today that it is developing a Cinema EOS System 8K camera and professional-use 8K reference display that will support the production of next-generation 8K video content, along with a still-image single-lens reflex camera equipped with a CMOS sensor featuring approximately 120 million effective pixels. _

_"Featuring a resolution of approximately 120 effective megapixels, the SLR camera now being developed will incorporate a Canon-developed high-pixel-density CMOS sensor within the current EOS-series platform, which will realize compatibility with the Company's diverse interchangeable EF lens lineup."
_

this isn't any .. IMO, I think that.. rumor or whatnot etc,etc. this is an official statement from Canon Inc.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 30, 2017)

privatebydesign said:


> RickSpringfield said:
> 
> 
> > Here's hoping that Canon consolidates all of the 5D camera bodies into a single camera called the 'Canon 5DSr Mark II'.
> ...



those segments really make sense .. I'm actually surprised canon doesn't do a 12MP 4K 5DC just to shut up the 4K whiners


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## Ryananthony (Aug 30, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > RickSpringfield said:
> ...



Maybe the 4k crowd isn't actually that big. Just very loud.


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## Mikehit (Aug 30, 2017)

RickSpringfield said:


> Its ok if you don't like my perspective ... but that doesn't make it wrong. A $2899 price would certainly draw in more people than a $3700 price.



That statement is so obvious as to be meaningless. 3400 would be better than 3700 as would 3000, 2,500 or 2,000.


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## LonelyBoy (Aug 30, 2017)

RickSpringfield said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > RickSpringfield said:
> ...



That doesn't make it a good decision. A $20000 Lexus would draw in more people than $40000, but that doesn't make it realistic.


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