# So when do we think the 5DS and 5DSR will be updated?



## kirispupis (Aug 25, 2016)

The 5D4 looks like a nice camera, but since I already have a 1DX2 there looks to be too much overlap to pick one up. I do believe a high MP camera will complement it well, but I'd prefer to wait until the 5DS + 5DSR are updated with the latest DR improvements.

Any ideas when we may see them updated?


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## Diko (Aug 25, 2016)

Q3 2018


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## kirispupis (Aug 26, 2016)

Diko said:


> Q3 2018



Well that would really suck. 

My hope is they update it sooner. Ideally I'm hoping for a new one by spring 2017.


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## Diko (Aug 27, 2016)

Check the EOS timeline on wikipedia. The itteration cycles get longer and longer. Current is about 4 years. No one knows if net one wouldn't be five ((

Really sorry to share such an opinion. I feel your pain. I skipped 5D3 cause was unhappy with thye specs and price. 

5Ds is my current favourite.


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## keithcooper (Aug 27, 2016)

kirispupis said:


> Diko said:
> 
> 
> > Q3 2018
> ...


Note a hope for that soon ... my first guestimate always comes from my timeline on the currently rather empty 5Ds mk2 page at:
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_5ds_mk2.html

Given the 1Dx 3 will be out for the 2020 olympics - I'd expect a 5D5 to come out that summer.

That makes 2018 a good 'mid point' for the 5Ds2, although timing might be delayed if it meant they could get a really impressive jump in pixels.

Having used the 5Ds for a year now, I appreciate the difference in pixels from my 1Ds3 - I'd like another such jump, so I'm happy to wait for ~120MP in 2019.


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## IglooEater (Aug 27, 2016)

A while ago we heard here on CR that canon had some new sensor tech coming down the pipe, and that the 5ds would get a rather quicker refresh cycle as a consequence.

http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-and-5ds-talk-cr2-2/

Bear in mind this is just a rumor.


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## keithcooper (Aug 27, 2016)

IglooEater said:


> A while ago we heard here on CR that canon had some new sensor tech coming down the pipe, and that the 5ds would get a rather quicker refresh cycle as a consequence.
> http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-and-5ds-talk-cr2-2/
> Bear in mind this is just a rumor.


I've noted several developments/hints from Canon (well, as much a you do get in their 'interviews') that there is a desire to make use of some of this in a product, but I don't think there is much chance for a 2017 camera, especially with the 5D4 starting to ship in September (and a 6D refresh needed).


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## H. Jones (Aug 27, 2016)

Even though Canon's release cycles are getting longer, it's not unheard of that they would release another camera so soon. Look at the original 1D series releases, they practically got updated every two years until the 1DX series came out and absorbed the 1DS release cycle which was much longer. 

I'd say they could easily release the 5DS Mark II around this time next year. I'd also bet the 6D mark II will be out around March or April, then the second half of the year could be focused on the 5DS mark II. If not, early 2018 would be the latest I could see this happening.

If they throw in CFast and dual DIGIC 7 processors, they could easily boost the MP way higher than it is already, and that's just with the technology they have in other cameras already. That said, I don't know much about how long it'd take them to produce a higher resolution sensor to go with that. Definitely would be a winning combination with Canon's new DR/sensor tech.


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## IglooEater (Aug 27, 2016)

keithcooper said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > A while ago we heard here on CR that canon had some new sensor tech coming down the pipe, and that the 5ds would get a rather quicker refresh cycle as a consequence.
> ...



Agreed. I'd love to see it sooner, but it would surprise me. A quicker refresh cycle is relative. Relative to current release cycles, 3 years would be quick, so q1 2018, like Diko said. H. Jones did have a point that release cycles used to be quicker, so anything could happen. Frankly I expect Diko to be right. I feel that sensor technology has somewhat plateaud in the last few years (not only in canon land but everywhere else as well) so slower releases are to be expected. I've been eyeing the 5D III for a while, and wondering what Canon could possibly do to make a 5D IV any better.


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## IglooEater (Aug 27, 2016)

dilbert said:


> Aside from engineering (perhaps but not likely) and marketing resources, I can't see why Canon couldn't release a 5DsII and 6DII in the same calendar year. They're not competing markets. 5DsII around August/September next year and a 6DII in March/April? The only danger Canon faces is that a 6DII that is "too soon" *might* rob some 5D4 sales due to the sticker price on the latter. You might even say that outside of the USA, Canon has now priced the 5D series out of reach of anyone but professionals (or very wealthy amateurs.)



Well... Aside from engineering and marketing reasons... You have to admit those are pretty big reasons! 

I dare say we'll see a wait before we see a 6D II, as you say. A long enough wait at that. Long enough so that some folks waiting for it will get fed up and pony up for a 5D IV. 

Pricing is just as you said. I feel like Canon is leaving some headroom so that even the 6D II will be out of my fiscal reach..


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## TeT (Aug 27, 2016)

6dII between 03/2017 & 09/2018

5D SorR (they will keep the better seller and drop the other completely) II in 03/2019 to 03/2020

In the meantime we will be on the T8i+ & whatever comes after the 90D & clamoring for the 5DV


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## tcmatthews (Aug 27, 2016)

TeT said:


> 6dII between 03/2017 & 09/2018
> 
> 5D SorR (they will keep the better seller and drop the other completely) II in 03/2019 to 03/2020
> 
> In the meantime we will be on the T8i+ & whatever comes after the 90D & clamoring for the 5DV



Agreed I do not think that they will be releasing two separate cameras. But I think we may see just one with selectable AA filter. The question is will Canon introduce a 5DR that is around the same MP as the existing one but with on sensor ADC and Dual Pixel AF like the 5DIV. Or take longer and release a 75+ MP beast. Also more MP means that a faster card than CF is likely needed. Any way it is a Q3 2017-2018 at the earliest just for a minor update if any in MP and longer if they go more MP.

If you find you want the 5DS/R I would not wait.


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## keithcooper (Aug 27, 2016)

TeT said:


> 6dII between 03/2017 & 09/2018
> 
> 5D SorR (they will keep the better seller and drop the other completely) II in 03/2019 to 03/2020
> 
> In the meantime we will be on the T8i+ & whatever comes after the 90D & clamoring for the 5DV



At 100MP+ I can rely on lens softness and hand holding to obviate any requirement for the AA filter - The 5Ds has managed moire with some architectural subjects, so I don't regret saving a few quid on the S version ;-)


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## Zeidora (Aug 28, 2016)

4 years sounds about right. Given that the AA filter is a relatively small difference in overall camera build, I'd guess that both versions will be kept. It will remain a niche model. I would not expect a significant increase in MP count, say 55-60. With other cameras the MP increases have been very gradual: 16, 18, 20, 21.

Price is irrelevant. People who want/need a 50MP camera will buy it, the rest won't. Same for high frame rate bodies (1-series), if you need it, you will buy it, if not, there's no point. I pre-ordered my 5DsR, see no need for a 1-series, neither for a 5D4. My first dSLR was the 5D2, skipped the 5D3, got 5DsR, so 4-10 year cycle works fine for me.

GPS was a serious omission. Dual/updated processors will be logical. CFast may be nice, but not necessary. The capture-to-LCD-display lag is rather long, which most likely is a processor limitation, but I haven't yet run into a frame buffer limit that would require a faster write-speed to the card. 

The 5Ds/R already has too many features. Most are software, so no incentive to slim it down. It's like Affinity Photo/PS, most only use <5% of features.

I hope that an easier user-interchangeable focusing screen will come back. Given the need for good glass, which Zeiss provides with MF lenses, the need for a matt FS is too obvious. I changed mine, and it is not too difficult, but the ease as on the 5D2 would be better. However, I don't get my hopes up too high, and I can deal with it on my own.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 28, 2016)

Diko said:


> Q3 2018



that's my guess.

it would be 3 years after the 120MP development announcement.


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## Maiaibing (Aug 28, 2016)

IglooEater said:


> I feel that sensor technology has somewhat plateaud in the last few years (not only in canon land but everywhere else as well) so slower releases are to be expected.


5DS/R sensor was a giant leap up! And so would a 120 MPIX sensor be.


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## Maiaibing (Aug 28, 2016)

I'd be really surprised to see it before 2019. I could see it go until 2020.

I waited _forever _to get the 5DIV to replace my 5DII's. Finally, I could not be bothered. Getting the 5DS/R instead was the best decision ever.

Have more or less decided not to get a 5DIV. May get a 6DII to replace my current 6D backup. If Canon gives the 6DII a better sensor than the 5DIV as they gave the 6D a better sensor than the 5DIII - I'm sold for sure when the 6DII comes out.

Price may be an issue. 6D was way overpriced at first. Now when you can get one for ~1.000$ its an amazing value offer.


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## Diko (Aug 29, 2016)

Just check the timeline from *here @ the bottom of the page*. You can't miss the trend of widening time gap between new model itterations.


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## photojoern.de (Aug 29, 2016)

I own the 5 DS R for a year now and it´s a wonderful camera. Landscape as well as sports. I do not believe that Canon will do a new version in the next three years, so my guess is more a Q3 / 2019. Unless Canon finds something truely disruptive in the sensor or AF technology, there is simply no need. When you use the camera, your bottleneck is the glass in front of the body. It´s the computer where you do your archiving or post processing. But it´s hardly the camera body.
OK, dynamic range is always something we would wish for more. Shoot right into the sun and the darkest shadows shall be recoverable. It´s already great and Nikon is only slightly slightly ahead with it on the D810. But really: you can shoot ISO 6400 with the 5 DS R and it´s still a very limited amount of noise that is somehow apprpriate for the level of darkness.
So, before the question of "when" comes the question "why". My opinion: the vast majority of 5 DS R users will have their bottleneck in the lenses, the way they work with the camera or in the way they take pictures. The body is hardly the limiting factor.


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## KeithBreazeal (Aug 29, 2016)

The 5DS/R was a mod of the 5D Mark III. I would suspect that Canon will offer the 5D Mark IV, minus the filters, within 12 months. Look for a firmware upgrade on the 5DS/R to keep it alive. The only thing Canon could improve on is the DR, SNR, and buffer speed. That would be a lot of R&D on an expensive 50 MP chip.
I'm perfectly happy with my 5DS as it is now. Let's see where technology takes us is a couple more years.
Instead of complaining about little shortcomings, I just deal with it. Hell, it's still better that working with film.


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## Pansottin (Aug 30, 2016)

photojoern.de said:


> OK, dynamic range is always something we would wish for more. Shoot right into the sun and the darkest shadows shall be recoverable. It´s already great and Nikon is only slightly slightly ahead with it on the D810. But really: you can shoot ISO 6400 with the 5 DS R and it´s still a very limited amount of noise that is somehow apprpriate for the level of darkness.



How better in reality is the DR against the 5DMIII (my camera)? And how much better is the Nikon D810? 
How about noise against the 5DMIII? And against the Nikon D810 (the ISO 64 is a nice advantage)?
All this is really visible or just specs?

What about banding problems with more aggressive editing?


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## Maiaibing (Aug 30, 2016)

Pansottin said:


> photojoern.de said:
> 
> 
> > OK, dynamic range is always something we would wish for more. Shoot right into the sun and the darkest shadows shall be recoverable. It´s already great and Nikon is only slightly slightly ahead with it on the D810. But really: you can shoot ISO 6400 with the 5 DS R and it´s still a very limited amount of noise that is somehow apprpriate for the level of darkness.
> ...


5DS/R picture quality is a visible upgrade from the 5DIII. Trust me on this one. Everything is better. Color, noise, DR, wb, anti-flickr, no banding etc.

For noise the noise is slightly less than the 5DIII and slightly more than the 6D. The absence of banding is the biggest difference at high iso. At all iso settings you also get much more detail.

For DR the 5DS/R is somewhat better at low iso (1 1/2 stops) and later starts to converge at higher iso settings, but I'm not "into DR", so I'm no authority on how important this is. My perception is that its significant and there's more latitude. http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm

Overall, if you have a 5DIII today getting the 5DS/R will feel like a very real upgrade in picture quality. 

I expect the 5DIV will be even better still by having lower noise and offering another jump up on the DR. You will however of course not get the same detail and resolution as with the 5DS/R.

Have no clue about Nikon 810. Suspect its better with noise and DR but I'm not in the know.


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## Pansottin (Aug 30, 2016)

Thank you very much for your opinion.
Its all good news ,-)


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## LoneRider (Aug 30, 2016)

Seems to me the 5DS[r] would be a great place to add in back side illumination.

So where ever that falls in the mix, 60-120MP, BSI, and everything else the on the 5Div except for slower frame rate.

Question is, would the next 5DS[r] have DPAF?


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## Diko (Aug 30, 2016)

keithcooper said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > A while ago we heard here on CR that canon had some new sensor tech coming down the pipe, and that the 5ds would get a rather quicker refresh cycle as a consequence.
> ...


+1
In that same CR article is stated: "_*March 2016* announcement for the Canon *EOS 5D Mark IV*_"

;-)


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## -1 (Aug 31, 2016)

keithcooper said:


> kirispupis said:
> 
> 
> > Diko said:
> ...



Unless, Canon decides to make lenses like the Otuses it's hard to see any benifits above 60MP and I'd would rather expect that to happen with a 1Dxs.


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## Maiaibing (Aug 31, 2016)

-1 said:


> Unless, Canon decides to make lenses like the Otuses it's hard to see any benifits above 60MP and I'd would rather expect that to happen with a 1Dxs.


Sounds like you never tried shooting with a high MPIX camera(?).

All your lenses perform visibly better with more MPIX. We are far from the point of utilizing 50 MPIX effectively. 120 MPIX will boost lens performance to a new level.


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## -1 (Aug 31, 2016)

Maiaibing said:


> -1 said:
> 
> 
> > Unless, Canon decides to make lenses like the Otuses it's hard to see any benifits above 60MP and I'd would rather expect that to happen with a 1Dxs.
> ...


I won't bore you with facts of life nor ditto of sampling but at some point you have to realize that blur is just blur... Anyways: Sensor tech ain't near the point 75+MP can be achived without losing other significant qualities. But if or then that happens it's most likely to do so in a 1Dsomething.


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## PeterAlex7 (Aug 31, 2016)

6DII and 7DIII both are their priority now. I think 2018 is the right time to release 5DS/R successor


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## Meatcurry (Aug 31, 2016)

I don't think there will be a replacement, I suspect that the next high MP sensor will be in a 1D body.


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## aa_angus (Aug 31, 2016)

Meatcurry said:


> I don't think there will be a replacement, I suspect that the next high MP sensor will be in a 1D body.



Unlikely, as these cameras have to process a lot of information very quickly. Processing 16 x 75MP frames per second would be tough work.


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## Meatcurry (Aug 31, 2016)

aa_angus said:


> Meatcurry said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think there will be a replacement, I suspect that the next high MP sensor will be in a 1D body.
> ...



Yeah I wouldn't expect that kind of FPS at full frame, but at crop factors, the current 50MP crops at circa 32MP @ 1.3 and circa 20MP @ 1.6. So I guess a future 1DS could run at 8FPS @ 50MP with the appropriate processors/buffer.


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## iaind (Aug 31, 2016)

Probably with the 5dv with hopefully cfast cards and probably nearer 2021.

5ds/r cheaper than 5d4. which would you buy?


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## Maiaibing (Aug 31, 2016)

iaind said:


> Probably with the 5dv with hopefully cfast cards and probably nearer 2021.
> 
> 5ds/r cheaper than 5d4. which would you buy?


For the price I'd certainly go for the 5DS/R myself.

5DIV looks great and I expect the sensor has better noise and DR than the 5DS/R (of course need to see this verified by real tests) however, the 5DS/R wins big in detail/resolution ~50% better than 5DIV which is more important to me. Also, the 5DS/R has a lot of the key IQ upgrades that you find in the 5DIV. Like its DR is up to 2 full stops better than the 5DIII at lower iso.

Can't go wrong with either.

Good luck with your choice.


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