# Concert haze causing out of focus pictures



## jeff92k7 (Mar 4, 2013)

Another thread got me thinking about something and I thought I'd ask here to see if anyone else has experienced it. I was at a concert a few weeks ago and took quite a few pictures. This particular concert was running a lot of haze. I noticed afterwards that many of my pictures were ever so slightly out of focus (front focused). Does typical concert haze throw off autofocus?

Most of my pictures weren't too bad. It is really only noticeable when pixel-peeping, but a few pictures I took from the back of the room were off by about 40 feet. The total room length was probably about 200-250 ft, and shooting from the back, the camera would have to focus through the haze filled room to the stage at front. 

Is this a common occurrence in haze-filled rooms, or do I need to take a closer look at the lens that I had the biggest issue with?


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## jeff92k7 (Mar 6, 2013)

So I guess that since no one has replied to this that I'm the only one to ever experience this issue?


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## sandymandy (Mar 6, 2013)

i sometimes got this problem when i use off-center focus points :/


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## cayenne (Mar 6, 2013)

jeff92k7 said:


> So I guess that since no one has replied to this that I'm the only one to ever experience this issue?



Well, back "in the day"....I experienced a LOT of _haze_ at the show, and it was a bit hard to focus on most anything terribly well, but didn't seem to matter much at the time.<P>
<P>
LOL...I used to take lots of pics back in HS and College at parties (thank God before the internet and FB and the like, I made sure to secure all the negatives back then)...and I noticed that many of the pics got blurred and fuzzy as the night progressed.

I then would just tell everyone, NO...it was my problem taking the pics, it just *REALLY* looked that way at that particular time of the night at that party.

:

cayenne


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## rpt (Mar 6, 2013)

Statuary Notice:
Do not take this response at face value.



cayenne said:


> jeff92k7 said:
> 
> 
> > So I guess that since no one has replied to this that I'm the only one to ever experience this issue?
> ...


The reason is _*Pot*_.



> LOL...I used to take lots of pics back in HS and College at parties (thank God before the internet and FB and the like, I made sure to secure all the negatives back then)...and I noticed that many of the pics got blurred and fuzzy as the night progressed.


_*Pot*_ again...



> I then would just tell everyone, NO...it was my problem taking the pics, it just *REALLY* looked that way at that particular time of the night at that party.
> 
> :
> 
> cayenne


There you go - _*Pot*_ again...


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## cayenne (Mar 6, 2013)

rpt said:


> Statuary Notice:
> Do not take this response at face value.
> 
> 
> ...



Hmm....you're not familiar with some of the slightly more legal possible reasons? Beer? Cocktails? Ball Ping hammer to the forehead?

8)


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## Chris Burch (Mar 6, 2013)

I would expect it to be hard to tell the focus precision on a shot from 250ft away through haze. The haze itself may be lowering the contrast and definition to make it look like it was out of focus even if the focus was spot-on. I just shot over 4K images of stage performances and a lot of them had excessive amounts of haze (very annoying). I never felt the focus was off in any of them, but for the most part hated the hazy photos. The trick is to get your subjects in front of the haze -- then you get crisp shots with the potential for lots of ambient background texture and light.

What auto-focus settings are you using? I've been shooting with single-point expanded, mostly on one shot.


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## Dantana (Mar 6, 2013)

Maybe this is a stupid question, but at 250', shouldn't you be at infinity with most lenses?


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## sandymandy (Mar 6, 2013)

cant the haze somewhat be filtered out? i mean if BW film u use a yellow filter to fight haze. shouldnt there something possible to do digitally aswell? color channels n stuff


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## jeff92k7 (Mar 6, 2013)

Chris Burch said:


> What auto-focus settings are you using? I've been shooting with single-point expanded, mostly on one shot.



I use AI Servo with Back button control and center focus point only for the shots in question. (T2i) (Press and release focus button and it works the same as one-shot - for anyone unfamiliar with back button focus modes.)

You are correct that the haze does make all the images a little soft and reduces contrast, but in the pictures from the back, it is very obvious, even without pixel peeping, that the focus is way off. The audio mix position (about 1/3 back into the room is sharper than anything on the stage, and from the audience silhouettes, it appears that the focal plane was about one row in front of the mix position. These were some of the very few pictures I took with my 50 1.8. I have never taken pictures at that distance with that lens before, but thought I would try it since it framed the stage well and gave a good indication of the crowd size, as well as providing a fairly shallow depth of field that would have looked great had the focus actually been on the stage.


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## Vivid Color (Mar 6, 2013)

Dantana said:


> Maybe this is a stupid question, but at 250', shouldn't you be at infinity with most lenses?



That's what I was also thinking. Why not just use manual focus?


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## bonedaddy.p7 (Mar 6, 2013)

jeff92k7 said:


> Chris Burch said:
> 
> 
> > What auto-focus settings are you using? I've been shooting with single-point expanded, mostly on one shot.
> ...



"mix position" is called Front of house, or FOH. The "Haze" you are referring to is from a fogger, this isn't just water mist though, it's a chemical mix that is slightly opaque to create that "beam" effect with the lights, so it's not as simple as filtering because the fog itself is not transparent. Filters can help, but there's only so far you'll get before the filter cuts the light enough to cause problems. Basically think of it as heavy cigarette smoke. Note that if you put your hand in front of the nozzle of a fogger when it's spraying, your hand will feel quite strange and tingly due to the chemicals, and the stuff I'm used to smells much like a damp wool coat too.

I ran sound and lights at underground events for around a decade and after everything got up and running I'd run around with my cameras to practice. I quickly gave up on auto focus because all the auto focus shots simply never managed to pick the right subject due to the fog. I ended up preferring my AE-1 Program over the Rebel II because of this, and digital was still pretty junky at the time (this was pre-5Dmk1 days). I can't vouch for modern AF since I don't have anything capable of getting focus at events, but this might explain what you're running into.


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## jeff92k7 (Mar 6, 2013)

Vivid Color said:


> Why not just use manual focus?



That's always an option, but my post is less an issue of manual vs auto focus as it is an issue of whether haze (or other particles in the air like smoke, fog, etc) will throw off auto focus. Besides, have you ever tried to manual focus with the 50 1.8? The focus ring is impossibly small and not very smooth.


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## Dantana (Mar 6, 2013)

jeff92k7 said:


> Vivid Color said:
> 
> 
> > Why not just use manual focus?
> ...



Sure, but you're 250' away from the stage, something is making the AF focus closer than that (the fog, the crowd, the guy at the board). It seems like manually focusing at infinity would be the way to go, set it and forget it, unless you are also getting shots around the scene at different depths. Then I totally understand not wanting to manually focus in the dark with the tiny ring on the 50 1.8.

If nothing else was in the region of your AF points, I think you've kind of answered your own question, that the environmentals used at the concert are messing with the AF.


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## jeff92k7 (Mar 6, 2013)

bonedaddy.p7 said:


> "mix position" is called Front of house, or FOH. The "Haze" you are referring to is from a fogger, this isn't just water mist though, it's a chemical mix that is slightly opaque to create that "beam" effect with the lights, so it's not as simple as filtering because the fog itself is not transparent.



Yeah, I've been an audio engineer for over 20 years. I've mixed FOH and monitors regularly since I was a teenager. I also have quite a few years experience in event production and currently serve at my church as the Technical Director overseeing a team who handle all aspects of technical production. I only recently (last year) got interested in photography. I used "Mix position" as a generic term since I doubt as many photographers would understand the FOH acronym.

This "haze" was actually haze. Fog uses a different chemical solution and is a much heavier, short term effect. Haze (oil based solution) is a different chemical mix that is designed to last a lot longer and "hang" in the air to help produce those lighting beam effects that everyone likes to do now. I don't want to bore anyone with the technical details though. 

I don't even know how many concerts and events I've photographed in the past year, but this was actually the first where haze was being used (and quite heavily). I'm a newbie photographer, and as such, have never run into this issue before, so I surmised that the haze may have caused the focus issues and thought I'd ask the professionals here before I write it off to cheap equipment.

I suppose it is a little reassuring that you have experienced similar issues. At least that points to the haze/smoke/fog as being at least partly responsible.


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## jeff92k7 (Mar 6, 2013)

Dantana said:


> If nothing else was in the region of your AF points, I think you've kind of answered your own question, that the environmentals used at the concert are messing with the AF.



That's kind of what I figured, but being a newbie photographer, I'm always second guessing myself. Multiple Google and forum searches were no help, so I was hoping to find someone with experience here that could say that they have experienced similar issues, or that they never had any issues like that (indicating that my cheap lens isn't focusing right at long distances).

I do appreciate everyone's responses.


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## Vivid Color (Mar 6, 2013)

This issue sounds like it is tailor made for a fun experiment. I've taken a good number of pictures at concerts before with generally poor results. I had always used a P&S, which only had autofocus capability, and I had always assumed the poor results were due to the lens. I don't have a 50mm f1.8, but I do have a 40mm f2.8 with its own ridiculously small focusing ring. Next time I go to a concert in which I can bring in a camera, I'll put the pancake on my DSLR and try both auto and manual focusing and see what happens and post results. That said, I have no concerts scheduled on my near-term calendar so perhaps others can try this experiment and report back. Posted images of the same scene shot on manual and auto-focus would be fun to see too.


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