# More on the Canon EOS 5D Mark IV in 2016 [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Apr 5, 2016)

```
We’re getting new information about the EOS 5D Mark IV quite slowly, but a lot of it I believe to be reliable.</p>
<p>The latest is about how the camera is going to launch. We’ve confirmed that the EOS 5D Mark IV will be announced in late August/early September in time for Photokina, which begins on September 20, 2016 and runs through to September 25, 2016. The ship date for the camera should quickly follow if everything goes to plan. This sort of launch would mimic the way the EOS 5D Mark III was launched and released. We think there’s a good chance you’re going to have the EOS 5D Mark IV in your hands some time in October, 2016, if not sooner.</p>
<p>If you’re interested in the camera, start saving your pennies. We expect a launch price of about $3500 USD, which is identical to the EOS 5D Mark III at launch.</p>
<p>The only reliable specifications we’ve been told is that camera will shoot 4K, have built-in wifi and GPS and have some touchscreen functionality. A less reliable source has told us the camera will shoot to CFast, just like the EOS-1D X Mark II. We’re sure the camera will have dual slots, but we don’t know how the media will be configured.</p>
<p>We expect a lot of chatter around NAB this month in Las Vegas.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## jrista (Apr 5, 2016)

Oooh, a CR2! About time for this camera. Hoping some more interesting information comes out soon. This is the sole thing from Canon I am interested in these days, and I am expecting it to be a killer.


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## jkillsomtam (Apr 5, 2016)

This is absurd timing since the difference between 5D mark ii and 5D mark iii release was roughly 3 years. Why would it now be a 4 year release? I was banking on this coming out early May and would have paid a premium price for it if it has 4k at 60fps and higher dynamic range than it's competitors. Now, I feel stuck before wedding season with the need to make a decision around NAB. 

I think a lot of people are in the same boat as me and want and expect the 5D mark iv to be out shortly after NAB. Anything later is just dissapointing.


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## Big_Ant_TV_Media (Apr 5, 2016)

well i figured it would be like the 7D2 announcement and launch
eg: 7d2 was announced in june/july 2014 and wasnt in stores or warehouses till sept/oct Halloween 2014
so if the 5d4 is announced as they say aug/sept some if not most of us in the usa 
will not have it till oct/nov
at events like the photoplus expo nyc late oct nearly nov 2016
sounds about right CANON TAKING FOREVER as usual but hey take ya time and make this another awesome camera like the 5d3 
hoping for the 7-8fps dual digic 6+ or at least digic 7
23-28mp like what rumored
4k video i dont care much for
DPAF/STM TECH 
more AF points would be better too
LESS NOISE AT HIGH ISO's even better low noise ISO would be great


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## Ozarker (Apr 5, 2016)

This fall will be exciting. I do feel sorry for all the wedding photogs, but I think it takes a special kind of person to shoot weddings anyway. I'm no pro by any means, but weddings have to be one of the most high pressure situations there are. Not for me. Not ever.

This camera is going to be another 5D great. 

I think 10 fps.


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## roxics (Apr 5, 2016)

Cool that they'll finally release 4K in a DSLR less than $4K. 
That said, I don't know if it will have the impact on the video world it once would have. There are so many cameras in this space now. It's going to need to bring 13 stops of usable dynamic range, C-Log and DPAF to be a hit in the video sector. I'd love to see an XLR attachment for it like Sony offers.


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## ahsanford (Apr 5, 2016)

Re: "Reliable specifications":

4K = I think they have to have it, but still may bury it at launch to protect 1D / Cinema sales. If it tanks, they unlock it with formware.

Onboard WiFi on a closed-top / non-pop-up body? Is that a first?

- A


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## j-nord (Apr 5, 2016)

jkillsomtam said:


> This is absurd timing since the difference between 5D mark ii and 5D mark iii release was roughly 3 years. Why would it now be a 4 year release? I was banking on this coming out early May and would have paid a premium price for it if it has 4k at 60fps and higher dynamic range than it's competitors. Now, I feel stuck before wedding season with the need to make a decision around NAB.
> 
> I think a lot of people are in the same boat as me and want and expect the 5D mark iv to be out shortly after NAB. Anything later is just dissapointing.



Canon did produce an intermediate/non-standard upgrade with the 5DS/R. It seems it was supposed to be a hold over for this longer full update release. Hopefully the wait is worth it for the pros who need 4k video capabilties.


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## j-nord (Apr 5, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> Re: "Reliable specifications":
> 
> 4K = I think they have to have it, but still may bury it at launch to protect 1D / Cinema sales. If it tanks, they unlock it with formware.
> 
> ...


6D?


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## mclaren777 (Apr 5, 2016)

Way to miss peak wedding season, Canon. :'(


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## Big_Ant_TV_Media (Apr 5, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> This fall will be exciting. I do feel sorry for all the wedding photogs, but I think it takes a special kind of person to shoot weddings anyway. I'm no pro by any means, but weddings have to be one of the most high pressure situations there are. Not for me. Not ever.
> 
> This camera is going to be another 5D great.
> 
> I think 10 fps.



cant be 10fps cause your hurt 7d2 sales smh THINKKKK


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## ahsanford (Apr 5, 2016)

BigAntTVProductions said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > This fall will be exciting. I do feel sorry for all the wedding photogs, but I think it takes a special kind of person to shoot weddings anyway. I'm no pro by any means, but weddings have to be one of the most high pressure situations there are. Not for me. Not ever.
> ...



Because people abandoning a $1500 camera for a $3500 camera strictly for fps reasons...

(a) ...would never happen. 
(b) ...would not 'hurt' Canon whatsoever. They'd make a mint on the body upcharge plus all the pricier longer lenses you'd need to buy to get the crop reach back.
(c) ...implies there aren't other ways to get 10+ fps with other manufacturers.
(d) All of the above.

On the topic of fps, I think the 5D4 will get about 8 fps, which will help distinguish it from the 5DS/5DSR rigs and also represent a nice +2 fps bump to the 5D3 camp. 

Could they handle more data than 8 fps? Of course. I'm not sure Canon wants to undercut *1DX II* sales with a 10 fps FF rig for $3500, however. (That argument actually works. )

- A


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## midluk (Apr 5, 2016)

I want a second body in addition to my 70D to have two lenses available without swaps and to get me into CPS.
I originally planned to go FF and get the 5D4 +a 24-70 and 16-35. But with all the 5D4 delays I think I will postpone that indefinitely and just get an 80D instead. Saves me lots of money and saves Canon from my money, a win-win situation :-\


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## CanoKnight (Apr 5, 2016)

October ? ? ? ? Wow. So Canon wants to absolutely make sure there is no overlap between 1dx2 and 5d-whatever-the-hell. In the process Canon enthusiasts who have been wanting to shoot over the summer get screwed over. Fark Canon. I have a Hawaii trip planned for the summer and I am going to look for an alternative 4k camera.


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## ahsanford (Apr 5, 2016)

j-nord said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Re: "Reliable specifications":
> ...



Totally forgot. Does that mean the cap will forego magnesium for polycarbonate like that one did? Have there been any discernible drawbacks to that with the 6D camp? Any drops or cracks? 

- A


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## Silverstream (Apr 5, 2016)

jkillsomtam said:


> This is absurd timing since the difference between 5D mark ii and 5D mark iii release was roughly 3 years. Why would it now be a 4 year release? I was banking on this coming out early May and would have paid a premium price for it if it has 4k at 60fps and higher dynamic range than it's competitors. Now, I feel stuck before wedding season with the need to make a decision around NAB.
> 
> I think a lot of people are in the same boat as me and want and expect the 5D mark iv to be out shortly after NAB. Anything later is just dissapointing.



+1 on the above - very disappointed. Been ready to buy the next model for a year plus now. I have a 6D which is a great camera but would love to have stronger focusing power with better iso. My backup is a T4i which is just such worse image quality its hard for me to use except in an emergency. I work more with second shooters now who sometimes don't have decent equipment and it would have been really nice to give them the 6D when I had the new unit.


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## Cali Capture (Apr 5, 2016)

Looks like Canon is trying to push WedTogs into the 1d series with the holdover till fall. It's, the new 1dxmkII, not that bad a value compared to first version given what more you get (anti flicker, 60fps 4K, Frame rate increase, ISO increase). The biggest 1D draw back for me is the SIZE, not so much the price. Money can be earned back, weight and bulk never go away! I don't shoot weddings, but I do want a new body and it's not easy to wait! I just can't get a 5D mkIII, when I know there will be features on the IV that will reward my patience!


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## cayenne (Apr 5, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> BigAntTVProductions said:
> 
> 
> > CanonFanBoy said:
> ...




Hey...that's what Magic Lantern is for, eh?



Cayenne


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## davidhfe (Apr 5, 2016)

CanoKnight said:


> October ? ? ? ? Wow. So Canon wants to absolutely make sure there is no overlap between 1dx2 and 5d-whatever-the-hell. In the process Canon enthusiasts who have been wanting to shoot over the summer get screwed over. Fark Canon. I have a Hawaii trip planned for the summer and I am going to look for an alternative 4k camera.



The optimistic way of looking at it is that Canon decided (per one of the CR1 rumors floating around) a year ago to change course on the body and that required significant-enough engineering changes to cause a delay. Changes important enough to offset the lost sales.

At $3500 w/ a four year release cycle I am hoping for (probably unrealistically) amazing things out of this camera. Four years from the mk 4's launch we'll likely see some very capable pro mirrorless options, and potentially a very different landscape. I'm expecting the next 5D to basically be the pinnacle of DSLR design.


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## jebrady03 (Apr 5, 2016)

Given the exchange rate differences between when the 5D Mark III launched and now, bringing the Mark IV to market at the same US dollar price point would represent a HUGE price increase. I wonder if the rumor origin was from Japan and what they mean is that the Japanese Yen price will remain the same, which would mean the price in the US would be lower than the launch price of the Mark III. 
A launch price of $3500 would put it out of my hobby-budget.


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## brad-man (Apr 5, 2016)

jebrady03 said:


> Given the exchange rate differences between when the 5D Mark III launched and now, bringing the Mark IV to market at the same US dollar price point would represent a HUGE price increase. I wonder if the rumor origin was from Japan and what they mean is that the Japanese Yen price will remain the same, which would mean the price in the US would be lower than the launch price of the Mark III.
> A launch price of $3500 would put it out of my hobby-budget.



Thanks for saying what I was thinking. Should launch at around $3100.


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## ahsanford (Apr 5, 2016)

brad-man said:


> jebrady03 said:
> 
> 
> > Given the exchange rate differences between when the 5D Mark III launched and now, bringing the Mark IV to market at the same US dollar price point would represent a HUGE price increase. I wonder if the rumor origin was from Japan and what they mean is that the Japanese Yen price will remain the same, which would mean the price in the US would be lower than the launch price of the Mark III.
> ...



I see the math a little differently as an enthusiast. Everyone's budget is different, of course, but here's my perspective.

When I wanted to move to FF in 2012, it was either the 5D3 or a 5D2. I went big and got the 5D3 for... $3499, I believe? I love that camera, and as much as I slam up against the limits of it often, those limits are generally dictated by combinations of physics and limitations of lighting* that I impose upon myself*. I'm often shooting handheld at really high ISO, and I often shoot wide DR landscapes where NDs grad aren't appropriate and compositing multiple frames is either not possible due to wind or is more trouble than it's worth.

And that's why even if the 5D4's value proposition is (compared to my 5D3) is...


WiFi (rumored)
4K video (rumored)
Anti-flicker (a certainty)
+1 stop higher ISO for the same level of noise (I'm just speculating here) 
+1 stop more DR at base ISO (speculating)
+2 fps (speculating)
1DX II AF setup (speculating)
Proper colored AF points in AI servo (surely they'll fix this)
Interchangeable focus screens (speculating)

...I'm not convinced I'm going to buy it -- only the blue items above affect what I personally shoot. So I would see that spec sheet as a lovely incremental improvement, but I'd rather save my $3k+ (whatever the price turns out to be) for lenses this cycle and wait even longer for a 5D5. I'm not a pro who might lose business from missed shots in the dark, a flickering light, etc.

The 5D4 will sell very, very well -- I'm not knocking that list above one bit. I just don't personally value that list strongly enough over my wonderful 5D3 to part with nontrivial dollars for it.

- A


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## Eersel (Apr 5, 2016)

They could just take the GPS out... which no real photographer uses anyways, and save everyone $400 on the unit.

Seriously GPS is such a meaningless feature.

All we need is + AF and + DR

If this camera doesn't have it, there will be a mass shift to Nikon.


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## hubie (Apr 5, 2016)

An articulating screen option would be great... then this camera would be a top cam for videographers. Else, I really enjoy this functionality on my 70D when taking Makros low on the ground.


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## ahsanford (Apr 5, 2016)

Eersel said:


> They could just take the GPS out... which no real photographer uses anyways, and save everyone $400 on the unit.
> 
> Seriously GPS is such a meaningless feature.
> 
> ...



What _specifically_ about the 5D3's AF is so leave-Canon-worthy? That's a similar setup to the 1DX!

I recognize there are some nitpicky AF issues (black servo points, no -3 EV center point, limited f/8 T/C use, etc.) but it's still a solid B+ in 2016 terms, IMHO. But if you're arguing that an SLR needs hundreds of AF points like mirrorless offers, I welcome the head-to-head hit-rate-on-moving-objects test between systems that might substantiate that.

As for a mass exodus to Nikon, the CR server hit it's insanity filter limit about 100 "mass exodus to Nikon" references ago. You'll have to join the chorus at DPReview, sorry. But you'll be glad to know you'll have plenty of company to foam at the mouth with on that front. 

- A


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## nvsravank (Apr 5, 2016)

No news is good news. I will use my 1DX Mark II, with much less buyers remorse. Most of my shooting for the year is done by september!


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## Sharlin (Apr 5, 2016)

CanoKnight said:


> October ? ? ? ? Wow. So Canon wants to absolutely make sure there is no overlap between 1dx2 and 5d-whatever-the-hell. In the process Canon enthusiasts who have been wanting to shoot over the summer get screwed over. Fark Canon. I have a Hawaii trip planned for the summer and I am going to look for an alternative 4k camera.



Really, people? It doesn't occur to you that maybe, just maybe, it's simply about getting the camera finished? Do you really think there's a 5D4 design ready for manufacture waiting on a server somewhere at Canon and some moustache-twirling executives are just sitting on it?

Damn the sense of entitlement of some people here...


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## Sharlin (Apr 5, 2016)

Eersel said:


> They could just take the GPS out... which no real photographer uses anyways, and save everyone $400 on the unit.
> 
> Seriously GPS is such a meaningless feature.



Yes, because everyone who has different needs from you obviously is not a real photographer :

Not even going to comment about the $400 part.


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## j-nord (Apr 5, 2016)

Eersel said:


> They could just take the GPS out... which no real photographer uses anyways, and save everyone $400 on the unit.
> 
> Seriously GPS is such a meaningless feature.
> 
> ...



Just because you don't personally don't have a need/want for GPS doesn't mean others don't need/want it. It also doesnt mean canon isn't going to put those features in to keep the price up. If you really want to complain about an industry packing garbage into a product to keep prices up, look at the car industry...

I too would like to know your complain with the AF is? To me thats one of the last areas that need improvement on the mkiii, less the virtually guaranteed improvements with f8 and low light focusing.

The areas that definitely need improvement are DR, ISO, mpix, fps, and video features (although I don't care about video)


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## ahsanford (Apr 5, 2016)

Sharlin said:


> Really, people? It doesn't occur to you that maybe, just maybe, it's simply about getting the camera finished? Do you really think there's a 5D4 design ready for manufacture waiting on a server somewhere at Canon and some moustache-twirling executives are just sitting on it?
> 
> Damn the sense of entitlement of some people here...



I blame Sony. They keep spitting out cameras like madmen. I welcome them as disruptive innovators, but their business model is so different from the established players. It's silly to expect Canon and Nikon to act this way.

Take your time, Canon. Make something demonstrably better and do it right.

- A


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## CanoKnight (Apr 5, 2016)

Sharlin said:


> CanoKnight said:
> 
> 
> > October ? ? ? ? Wow. So Canon wants to absolutely make sure there is no overlap between 1dx2 and 5d-whatever-the-hell. In the process Canon enthusiasts who have been wanting to shoot over the summer get screwed over. Fark Canon. I have a Hawaii trip planned for the summer and I am going to look for an alternative 4k camera.
> ...




The technology that goes into the 5d4 was already hard baked as of no later than late last year. There will be nothing in the 5d4 that isn't already in the 1dx2 and/or 80d. It's just a matter of packaging. Canon obsessively protect their higher end (read fattest margin) products, so unlike 2012, this cycle they wont release the newest 5d body until the newest 1dx sales have tapered off. It's all about money, pure and simple.


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## jeffa4444 (Apr 5, 2016)

Eersel said:


> They could just take the GPS out... which no real photographer uses anyways, and save everyone $400 on the unit.
> 
> Seriously GPS is such a meaningless feature.
> 
> ...



As Landscape & travel are my biggest uses of my cameras I can assure you the GPS in the 6D gets used a lot, a hell of a lot. So to does wi-fi as it does in the G7 X I own neither I consider "gimmicks" but useful tools. 
The AF points in the 5D MKIII / 5DS are more than enough for 99% of situations yes better AF at f8 especially with extenders would be really useful and extended DR with less noise at high ISOs. 

I certainly would not be shifting to Nikon with so much money invested in Canon glass.


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## Ryanide16 (Apr 5, 2016)

This is good news. This eliminates the unknown option (and what if's) and makes my upgrade to the 1DX Mark II, a solid choice. By the time October rolls around and the new 5D4 starts hitting the shelves, I will have already shot thousands of photos on my new camera. ;D


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## ahsanford (Apr 5, 2016)

CanoKnight said:


> The technology that goes into the 5d4 was already hard baked as of no later than late last year. *There will be nothing in the 5d4 that isn't already in the 1dx2 and/or 80d. *



Regarding the red bit above, that's likely to be _generally_ true, but recall the 5D3 was announced a good 4-5 months after the 1DX, but it had a few things the 1DX did not:


Headphone jack (a huge feature for videographers, I'm told)
HDR mode
Silent shooting mode (simply a huge feature and a Canon SLR first, no?)
Exciting black Servo AF points
"Spot metering that only trusts the best AF point"  [fist shake]

So I'm not convinced we won't see anything new in the 5D4. It may have an ace or two up its sleeve. 

- A


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## rrcphoto (Apr 5, 2016)

CanoKnight said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > CanoKnight said:
> ...



how do you know? have you seen it?

canon launched the 1DX and 5D Mark III around the same time.. clearly they don't think the same.

also the 1DXII has bastardized 4K - for canon to do it better on the 5D *WILL* require different hardware.


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## Ozarker (Apr 5, 2016)

BigAntTVProductions said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > This fall will be exciting. I do feel sorry for all the wedding photogs, but I think it takes a special kind of person to shoot weddings anyway. I'm no pro by any means, but weddings have to be one of the most high pressure situations there are. Not for me. Not ever.
> ...



You are hilarious.  You may be right though. I think the 70D hurt 5D Mark III sales in the same way. : Silly Billy! 

But, there might just be tens of thousands of folks with 7D Mark II cameras in mind to buy @ $1,499 who will make the leap to a 5DX for $3,500 for the same desired frame rate and no crop factor. 

I would dance and be merry, life would be a ding-a-derry... if I only had a brain. 

I just wish I could be as wise as you. Shame on me for thinking the 7D Mark II and the 5DX are in different market segments.

Sorry man. Please forgive me. Please? ???

Have a nice day!


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## unfocused (Apr 5, 2016)

CanoKnight said:


> It's all about money, pure and simple.



I'm shocked...shocked...that making a profit is what drives businesses.


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## Ozarker (Apr 5, 2016)

unfocused said:


> CanoKnight said:
> 
> 
> > It's all about money, pure and simple.
> ...



Hahahaha! Don't forget, some people think profits are evil. :


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## et31 (Apr 5, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> CanoKnight said:
> 
> 
> > The technology that goes into the 5d4 was already hard baked as of no later than late last year. *There will be nothing in the 5d4 that isn't already in the 1dx2 and/or 80d. *
> ...



...with horrible internal pre-amps, as usual! According to Canon (and Nikon for that matter - since they do not specialize in video), you can't make a Canon camera a cinema gem unless it's a C-series. ;D Traditional internal 8-bit compressed 4K video is to be expected with "clean", but not sharp, 4:2:2 8-bit output to an Atomos recorder. Yawn! 

Magic Lantern may do something to unlock more features by 2018. 

C-log? Wide Dynamic Range gamma profile? Most likely not. Just look at the 1Dx MII. Plus, we cannot take away sales from the crummy XC10 now, can we?
I really hate those compressed DSLR blacks, non-sharp edges, and CMOS rolling shutter. Oh well. 
It's a DSLR...what do you expect? I expect professional photographic features like usual.
For video, with all the bells and whistles, we have the C100, C300, etc.

Say hello to a realistic 2017 acquisition like with the majority of people.
The 5D MIII is already amazing and justifies the cost for professional photo-shoots. 5D Mark IV will most likely be a better improvement for event and multi-category photography in many more scenarios.


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## Jack Douglas (Apr 6, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> Eersel said:
> 
> 
> > They could just take the GPS out... which no real photographer uses anyways, and save everyone $400 on the unit.
> ...



I'd suggest that the comment made was just sarcasm directed at the complainers - surely not serious!

Jack


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## ahsanford (Apr 6, 2016)

Jack Douglas said:


> I'd suggest that the comment made was just sarcasm directed at the complainers - surely not serious!
> 
> Jack



Nope. There are actually some folks who associate AF modernity and efficacy with how many AF points it has. (I know, I know, don't get me started)

There may be a legit AF beef with the 5D3 on something very particular to what he/she shoots (say, Servo AF in a dark environment), but we haven't heard it yet.

And I generally don't associate people with less than 5 CR posts who dwell on _'everyone will leave to Sony/Nikon if they don't do what **I** want' _as being particularly sarcastic. _Sophomoric_, perhaps, but not sarcastic.

- A


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## jebrady03 (Apr 6, 2016)

So my curiosity got the best of me and I decided to look up historical exchange rates for the Yen vs US Dollar.

On the day the 5D Mark III was announced (March 2nd, 2012) the USD price was $3500. That converts to 286319 Japanese Yen (JPY). If the 5D Mark IV is also announced at $3500 USD, that would convert, based on the exchange rate today, April 5th, 2016, to 386627 JPY. The percent increase in price in the US for the 5D Mark IV over the 5D Mark III would be 35%. However, if the 5D Mark IV is announced at the same JPY (286319) then the USD price would be $2593. So, anything above $2593 would be a price hike for the 5D Mark IV (assuming the exchange rate on announcement day is the same as it is today, April 5th, 2016).

Similarly, the 6D was announced on September 17, 2012 for $2100 which converts to 165328 JPY on that particular day. If the 6D Mark II were announced for $2100, that would equate to 231976 JPY based on today's exchange rate which would be an increase of 40%. However, if it's announced for the equivalent of 165328, then the USD price would be $1497.

I think we all know that Canon USA won't announce the 5D Mark IV for $2593 and the 6D Mark II for $1497, it'll be higher, of course. But announcing them for $3500 and $2100 would, IMO, be cause for revolt. I, honest to god, would NOT buy either one and would actually contemplate leaving the ecosystem for that kind of "come here and bend over" treatment.


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## scottkinfw (Apr 6, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> brad-man said:
> 
> 
> > jebrady03 said:
> ...



I suspect you will have a LONG WAIT!

sek


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## scottkinfw (Apr 6, 2016)

Sharlin said:


> Eersel said:
> 
> 
> > They could just take the GPS out... which no real photographer uses anyways, and save everyone $400 on the unit.
> ...



My passion is wildlife photography, and landscape photography. GPS would be lovely to so that I could find the exact spot to so that I could recreate pics years later, or when going to post, I can note exactly where the picture was taken. 

So I see this as very useful, and when it is a chip on the pcb, it won't cost $400.00.

Now if you shoot only in a studio or a few venues, then it would be little to no use.

sek


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## scottkinfw (Apr 6, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> BigAntTVProductions said:
> 
> 
> > CanonFanBoy said:
> ...



Oh but you do. You do have a brain. What you need is a diploma!.......

Me thinks a trip to Oz is needed. He may even give you a 5DIV too!


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## unfocused (Apr 6, 2016)

jebrady03 said:


> If the 5D Mark IV is also announced at $3500 USD, that would convert, based on the exchange rate today, April 5th, 2016, to 386627 JPY.



Except it doesn't work that way.

Only a portion of the cost of producing a product is paid out in Yen. The home country currency is only valid for the portion of the product that is produced or paid out within the home country. And, even then it is far more complicated in a global economy.

A few examples:

Let's say the body uses magnesium that originates in another country. That magnesium must be purchased using the deflated Yen, so it it going to cost the company more for the same product than it costs when the Yen is strong. That raises their costs.

This is true for any component that is not manufactured in Japan. It must be purchased using weak Yen, so their costs for these components goes up, not down when the Yen is weak.

The cameras do not magically fly across the ocean under their own power. The company must pay to have them shipped. The shippers aren't going to discount their rates when the Yen is weak, so it will cost more Yen to ship the product. 

Advertising, marketing, support, etc., etc., must be paid out in the currency of the country where that occurs. Canon USA's costs do not go down when the Yen is weak, so all those embedded costs are unaffected by currency fluctuations.

In addition, Japan is highly dependent on imports for many basic necessities of life. That means that when the Yen is weak, Japanese companies face pressure to boost wages to enable their employees to maintain the same standard of living. Wage hikes are almost always a one-way street (going up, seldom going down), so even their embedded in-country costs have no doubt risen over the past four years.

With a multi-national company operating on several continents in a global economy, it is simply not possible to make simplistic calculations on exchange rates and think it has any validity.


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## Cthulhu (Apr 6, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> BigAntTVProductions said:
> 
> 
> > CanonFanBoy said:
> ...



If you shoot action 10 vs 14 is a huuuuuuge difference worth the price bump. Hell even 12 vs 14 is a big difference


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## jebrady03 (Apr 6, 2016)

unfocused said:


> jebrady03 said:
> 
> 
> > If the 5D Mark IV is also announced at $3500 USD, that would convert, based on the exchange rate today, April 5th, 2016, to 386627 JPY.
> ...



Yes, but this was in the context of an earlier post of mine, as well as the original post by CR saying the price would stay the same. I said if the Yen price stayed the same, that's one thing. But if the dollar price stayed the same, that would be something completely different. Also, I noted that I didn't expect the prices to be $2600 and $1500, but I don't think it would be fair to charge $2100 and $3500.

Also, the cost of raw materials, especially for a camera, is not likely to be as significant a factor as you're making it out to be. Raw material costs have little to do with final product cost to the consumer, except to determine profit margin/loss. Realistically, competition and market segmentation are FAR more influential on the final cost to the consumer.


----------



## jrista (Apr 6, 2016)

Sharlin said:


> CanoKnight said:
> 
> 
> > October ? ? ? ? Wow. So Canon wants to absolutely make sure there is no overlap between 1dx2 and 5d-whatever-the-hell. In the process Canon enthusiasts who have been wanting to shoot over the summer get screwed over. Fark Canon. I have a Hawaii trip planned for the summer and I am going to look for an alternative 4k camera.
> ...



The 5D III was a "little" late going by the previous timeframe between body releases, and it had people up in arms. The 5D IV is WAY late going by the same schedule, and competitors have released numerous new, competitive and usually far more exciting cameras in the mean time. I'd call the reaction of people who have been patiently waiting for the update for all this extra time, and use these cameras to make their living, only to find it STILL won't be ready for them to buy and use when they need it most, quite muted. 

Personally, if the 5D IV hits with the features I think it desperately needs, in particular improved DR, I think this will finally be the camera that the 5D III should have been over four years ago. When you consider people were waiting for class-leading DR back when the 5D III was released, that is some seven years of waiting... I think people are justified in being just a little upset if they need the camera before it will be released, and will have to wait yet another year to buy one.


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## unfocused (Apr 6, 2016)

jebrady03 said:


> ...Realistically, competition and market segmentation are FAR more influential on the final cost to the consumer.



Agreed. I apologize if I took your comments out of context or unintentionally distorted them. My main point is that people often oversimplify and overgeneralize when it comes to exchange rates. These days any multinational company is going to face dozens of conflicting pressures on their cost of production, because no product is made in a vacuum today.

I expect the biggest influence on the 5D IV price will be the price of comparable Nikon and Sony bodies.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Apr 6, 2016)

And what good does being upset do? Other than giving indigestion. 

It's not like Canon is going to alter its process if we're impatient.

Jack


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## Ozarker (Apr 6, 2016)

jebrady03 said:


> So my curiosity got the best of me and I decided to look up historical exchange rates for the Yen vs US Dollar.
> 
> On the day the 5D Mark III was announced (March 2nd, 2012) the USD price was $3500. That converts to 286319 Japanese Yen (JPY). If the 5D Mark IV is also announced at $3500 USD, that would convert, based on the exchange rate today, April 5th, 2016, to 386627 JPY. The percent increase in price in the US for the 5D Mark IV over the 5D Mark III would be 35%. However, if the 5D Mark IV is announced at the same JPY (286319) then the USD price would be $2593. So, anything above $2593 would be a price hike for the 5D Mark IV (assuming the exchange rate on announcement day is the same as it is today, April 5th, 2016).
> 
> ...



For all the talk and speculation about exchange rates... the price charged is there to fit the market. The price for the Japanese people is far higher than it was for the 5D Mark III because their currency has been devalued so badly. Basing OUR cost and tying it to yen/dollar exchange rates makes very little sense to me. The Japanese have not increased our cost significantly at all. In fact, adjusting for inflation, our costs have come down. It takes far more of their yen to buy one of our dollars. It is not the case that because their currency is in the toilet we should be paying less. They are hurting because of the exchange rate, not benefiting.

Also, lets not forget that Japan has to import many of their raw materials for manufacturing. Those raw materials cost them far more now with their weak yen than the materials cost several years ago.

It is the strengthening dollar that holds our cost down, not the weakening yen.

Thinking that we are somehow being ripped off because the yen is weak is silly. We are benefiting greatly because the yen is so weak. Imagine the cost of a Japanese product if the currencies were at parity?

Look at what has happened in Canada with lenses. The Canadian currency has gotten weak. It takes more Canadian $ to buy the product.

Expecting the new product to launch for similar or less than the old product is silly too.


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## shutterfreek (Apr 6, 2016)

I own a couple of markIII's. I shoot tons of Weddings, Portraits, a ton of Commercial, etc. However, I shoot equally as much video as I do stills. I think anyone married to Canon, and being this type of shooter, has been EAGERLY wanting to add *higher video frame rates*, and *more video resolution* to their arsenal without having to adopt sony, panasonic, red, or black magic into the family. The 1DmarkII suddenly became a solution, but for the money, is more fps than I'll ever need in the type of multi-media business I run (and wouldn't work well with a Ronin, which I love). So...in my oppinion..the mark IV seems to be the perfect answer for anyone toggling equally between both the photog & video worlds. I'm so excited I can't stand it. Thanks CanonRumors. Addicted to the site.


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## OneTrueKing (Apr 6, 2016)

I'm more than sure that CFast will be on board with SD. I think the price is not accurate though when you consider where the pricing for the 1DxII is currently, which is a lot less than the 1Dx. $2700 to 3200 will be price range if not a bit cheaper.


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## Maiaibing (Apr 6, 2016)

4 years cycle will put people like myself who like to "jump" camera body generations in a dilemma - keep your DSLR for 8 years...or get the latest and greatest???

8 years is an almost impossible long time for an electronic device.


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## Untitled (Apr 6, 2016)

I'm really looking forward to seeing what the final spec for this camera will turn out to be.

I've been using my wonderful 50d for about 6 years and want to move up to full frame. But, October is a little too long a wait for me. I think I'll buy the 6d, they're very good value at the moment, and see how I feel about the 5d Mk iv in a couple of years when the price has most likely dropped a few hundred pounds.

Very sorely tempted by the Pentax K1 though.


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## gsealy (Apr 6, 2016)

shutterfreek said:


> I own a couple of markIII's. I shoot tons of Weddings, Portraits, a ton of Commercial, etc. However, I shoot equally as much video as I do stills. I think anyone married to Canon, and being this type of shooter, has been EAGERLY wanting to add *higher video frame rates*, and *more video resolution* to their arsenal without having to adopt sony, panasonic, red, or black magic into the family. The 1DmarkII suddenly became a solution, but for the money, is more fps than I'll ever need in the type of multi-media business I run (and wouldn't work well with a Ronin, which I love). So...in my oppinion..the mark IV seems to be the perfect answer for anyone toggling equally between both the photog & video worlds. I'm so excited I can't stand it. Thanks CanonRumors. Addicted to the site.



I am very similar to you with regard to 'toggling' as you put it. I like the 5DIII because it is such a versatile camera. To me, that represents a lot of value. I am hoping that the 5DIV improves on the 1DxII video specs by supporting true 10 bit and external 4K recording to say an Atomos, as the current 5DIII does now for HD (yes, I know the 5DIII is 8 bit). Maybe as we are looking at a fall release, then we will get those things.


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## Mac Duderson (Apr 6, 2016)

STRICTLY MARKETING I have to agree with Canon on this "late" announcement. 
I also think last time when they announced the 1Dx and 5D3 close together was a huge mistake. :-[

As a wedding/port/commercial photographer my buddies and I were all super excited with the 1Dx when it was announced and were all considering finally upgrading to the 1Dx. 
But then they released the 5D3. Poof we all dropped the 1Dx. Canon almost had all of us but then lost all of us with the 5D3. I'd say they kinda shot themselves in the foot. ???
And becasue of that I think it's hurting their 1Dx2 sales now. None of us even batted an eye at the 1Dx2 becasue we thought the 5D4 was going to follow shortly after. In fact the only reason we were excited the 1Dx2 was announced is to NOT BUY IT becasue it just told us the cheaper version was coming out shortly after ha ha!

However now that wedding season is here I'm FINALLY starting to look at the 1Dx2 but now I have no preorder fixed so who know when I would even get one if I did order. If one was to order the 1Dx2 and only receive it in the fall after our wedding season is closing then I may as well just start the new year with a 5D4.
I'm not a canon fanboy but I kinda feel bad for them to be honest. If a few of my friends and I did this how many others did the same.


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## whothafunk (Apr 6, 2016)

I find it funny that whenever a CR2 or 3 rumor appears for the long awaited DSLR, people's morale, satisfaction and whatnot drastically raises and they instantly start to write down their wishes on what that said DSLR will have. However, who ever thinks 5D4 will sport a 10 FPS is seriously not understanding marketing and better start thinking realistically for their own good.


----------



## RickWagoner (Apr 6, 2016)

CanoKnight said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > CanoKnight said:
> ...



with all due respect good sir please allow me to correct you on a few things. 

The most profitable or fattest margin cameras are the lower end bodies. So much so the flagship is there more or less as a bragging point for a company. What pays for the R&D and all the tooling for the flagship body is the Rebel and lower end bodies. When you sell more you have to make more, when you make more it is cheaper per piece to manufacture short term and long term. Also R&D is not cheap, esp for the new features the higher end bodies get. It could cost Canon hundreds of thousands of dollars for the seals on the 1DX just in researching all the different mixtures, thickness, what exact mixture and thickness works better for areas that flex a lot like buttons, what exact mixture and thickness works better for areas the don't flex a lot like a body gap, and on and on. The Canon engineers at Canon HQ are not professionals on rubber seals, they have to contract other companies to consultant, then design, then test just a silly rubber seal. After all that cost Canon HQ will only go and pick what rubber they feel is right for the camera, draw up prototype seals and maybe bodies then contract other companies all over the world to test the shit out of them. And please don't think after all this work and money a silly rubber seal costs a few pennies to make and it is profit highway for Canon after, you're wrong. Those seals might cost a few pennies but they still need to be tested and tested and that is right tested. Only good thing is Canon won't change a flagship body from one model to the nest that much so all that money invested at the beginning will slowly pay for itself and with all the knowledge they have from all that work can go into other lower end bodies to some extent later on. 

Now a Canon T5 does not have to go through this seal cost along with many other costs for other parts. Canon well sell ten of thousands of t5s easily to every ten 1dx's they sell. They have to invest way more heavily in marketing for a higher end body vs the cheaper cameras, Cheaper cameras are in front of everyone at best buys and walmarts..these people just buy it without second thought were as a higher end body is is not even in stores in lots of places because the town may not have a dedicated camera store. 

IF it was all about money Canon would not make a flagship camera. If it was all about Money Canon would not test and research at all. If it was all about money Canon would be rushing out new bodies every year loaded with features that won't work. Nikon likes to do something like this, but to be fair they do a fair amount of testing before hand, maybe not as much piece by piece testing like Canon does. This is why you see lots of recalls for Nikons or delays in shipments. Sony does very little piece testing, which is why they have cameras with 10fps but no buffer or cameras that can shoot 4k but get overheated. Sony don't care because they will release a new model soon and everyone will forget the last model, but sadly so will the used sales also screwing the owners. 

So after throwing down thousands of dollars of your own money do you want the camera to work? Do you want that little seal on the bottom to rot after a year and just the slightest moisture gets in and fries you camera? Do you want your thousands of dollars to be worthless in two years because it is two models back with by then well known problems?


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## romanr74 (Apr 6, 2016)

Eersel said:


> They could just take the GPS out... which no real photographer uses anyways, and save everyone $400 on the unit.
> 
> Seriously GPS is such a meaningless feature.
> 
> ...



All "YOU" need is what you wanted to say, right?


----------



## romanr74 (Apr 6, 2016)

unfocused said:


> CanoKnight said:
> 
> 
> > It's all about money, pure and simple.
> ...



This is even bigger than the Panama-Papers...


----------



## romanr74 (Apr 6, 2016)

jebrady03 said:


> So my curiosity got the best of me and I decided to look up historical exchange rates for the Yen vs US Dollar.
> 
> On the day the 5D Mark III was announced (March 2nd, 2012) the USD price was $3500. That converts to 286319 Japanese Yen (JPY). If the 5D Mark IV is also announced at $3500 USD, that would convert, based on the exchange rate today, April 5th, 2016, to 386627 JPY. The percent increase in price in the US for the 5D Mark IV over the 5D Mark III would be 35%. However, if the 5D Mark IV is announced at the same JPY (286319) then the USD price would be $2593. So, anything above $2593 would be a price hike for the 5D Mark IV (assuming the exchange rate on announcement day is the same as it is today, April 5th, 2016).
> 
> ...



I have reason to believe that this is not how pricing is done; but that a company looks at the local market and the price in the respective currency and never without absolute need gives away a currency improvement to the market.


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## jeffa4444 (Apr 6, 2016)

Canon knows it needs to be competitive and it knows Sony has deeper pockets so whilst Sony is still building its system particularly glass it has time but not forever. Sony launched new G Master lenses the reviews on these have been highly favourable and if it keeps on that path the one thing that held them back will be gone. Yes the R series has some weaknesses particularly battery life but again dont count on Sony not making improvements they are certainly not giving up and will eventually overhall Nikon. 
Canon needs the 5D MKIV to be the type of camera the 5D MKII was when it was launched Jirsta is right the 5D MKIII as good as it is was not groundbreaking and the competition are much closer than they ever were. Were invested in Canon but our children (mine are 28 & 25) are not and my daughter has bought into Sony and is perfectly happy and I know at younger than her age I bought into Canon and have never changed.


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## jebrady03 (Apr 6, 2016)

romanr74 said:


> I have reason to believe that this is not how pricing is done; but that a company looks at the local market and the price in the respective currency and *never without absolute need gives away a currency improvement to the market*.



You're absolutely right. They'd never give away a currency improvement, unless forced to. Hence my post.  I'm hoping that if enough people know about it, then social media pressure may have a beneficial effect for the consumer. Knowledge is (purchasing) power, right?

I'm not proclaiming to be an authority on this matter, but here's my take anyway... Canon, Inc is based out of Japan. Canon USA is a wholly owned subsidiary meaning that they operate independently, but they don't report back to shareholders, they report back to Canon, Inc. So, all income arriving at Canon USA is truly Canon, Inc's income. So it's not unrealistic to think about sales prices in JPY as that is the base currency Canon USA is working off of. And we see references to exchange rates all the time in the Canon Financial Reports. "Favorable exchange rates", and such, saving them from a declining camera market and improving profits (or mitigating losses).

Personally, I think it's asinine to be completely okay with a 35-40% price hike in effective purchasing power loss from one model to the next over the course of 4 years, just because the price in USD may be the same. We're hit with price hikes when the currency exchange isn't favorable (just ask our Canadian friends about that), so why should we not expect the reverse to be true? I mean, the price of the 5D Mark III has dropped $1000 since launch (28.57% price drop). MUCH of that is the result of currency fluctuation. IMO, only some of it is due to the fact that the camera has been out for 4 years and is dated technology. For example, the 5D Mark III was $3800 in Canada upon release. Currently the price is $3400. Why only a $400 price drop (10.52% price drop) for Canadian customers after 4 years while US customers have a $1000 difference? EXCHANGE RATES!

So again, I state... DO NOT be okay with an introductory price (in USD) of $3500. Personally, I think $2900 is reasonable. It factors in a lower price for exchange rates, but also an increase in effective USD price due to the addition of new technology. (Remember, an equivalent JPY price today would be $2597 so $2900 represents an increase of more than 10% over the cost of the 5D Mark III) My guess is it'll be closer to $3000-3100 though, so that Canon USA can capitalize on the early adopters and have a higher, stable MSRP against which, they can offer future discounts.

But hey, if all you guys who are just salivating over the opportunity to drop 35% more on a camera than you would rationally expect are loud enough, I'm sure Canon USA will listen, happily, to you.


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## Memdroid (Apr 6, 2016)

jebrady03 said:


> romanr74 said:
> 
> 
> > I have reason to believe that this is not how pricing is done; but that a company looks at the local market and the price in the respective currency and *never without absolute need gives away a currency improvement to the market*.
> ...



I think you are right. Using the 1dx II as an example the EU customers are screwed over for about $1300 compared to the US market, mainly because of the exchange rates.
But then again, if the 1Dx II is used as an example once more, it is the cheapest FF 1 series camera at launch. Maybe the 5D4 will follow that same example.


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## Viper28 (Apr 6, 2016)

Looks like I'm going to have to buy something " temporary" for 2016 then :-\ my 7D has served me well but at 200k clicks it needs to go and I want to go FF. I was hoping fore something around 28mpx and 8fps from the 5D4, might still get that but not this year it seems.

Been a Canon user for 35+ years (from a AE1) but I might just be tempted to park the Canon and do 2016 with a used D800e and 200-400/4 to see what the fuss is about


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## romanr74 (Apr 6, 2016)

jebrady03 said:


> romanr74 said:
> 
> 
> > I have reason to believe that this is not how pricing is done; but that a company looks at the local market and the price in the respective currency and *never without absolute need gives away a currency improvement to the market*.
> ...



LOL


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## Takingshots (Apr 6, 2016)

Lots of grumbles for DR range, pricing, 4K, flip and touch screen, etc. For gripe-sakes Canon, give Cannonites what they want. Listen to your consumers. Period.


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## pierlux (Apr 6, 2016)

Announcement:
5D was October.
5D II was November.
5D III was March, but most probably, not to say for sure, only because of the earthquake/tsunami.
Why complain/surprise for an October - November launch?

Price:
5D III was higher than 5D II, but feature-wise it was a giant leap ahead with respect to its predecessor. The AF module alone justified the price increase, but other features were also added/improved. The 5D to 5D II iteration was essentially a matter of sensor resolution, and video features which came at nearly zero cost. I expect the 5D IV to be cheaper (not by much) at launch than the 5D III, similarly to what happened with the 1D X to 1D X II iteration.

Features:
4K and CFast most likely.
GPS most likely, I'd say for sure.
WiFi... don't know, I doubt it. I'd welcome it, I see a lot of ways to circumvent the magnesium alloy body shielding problem without invalidating the weather proofing (detachable screw-in antenna, external non-protruding antenna surrounding the display like a thin frame, plastic antenna band(s) like the iPhone... you name it.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 6, 2016)

Takingshots said:


> Lots of grumbles for DR range, pricing, 4K, flip and touch screen, etc. For gripe-sakes Canon, give Cannonites what they want. Listen to your consumers. Period.



I assure you Canon does listen to their customers. Some people on the CR Forums just can't seem to grasp the fact that _they_ are not representative of Canon's customer base.


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## ironfreak (Apr 6, 2016)

My problem is different and I don't want to compare Canon vs Nikon.

I have had Nikon gear earlier (the D80 and 2 lenses) which I sold out few months back to buy a FF body and pro lenses. I shoot product, weddings and studio portraits. I am open to both Canon and Nikon since I am newly investing in either system. 

I was waiting and excited for 5DIV but got disappointed now cannot wait till October :\ If I want to buy Canon today, what should I go with? Or is it worth waiting till whenever 5DIV releases?

I have seen a mass opinion over the internet that Nikon bodies have more DR than Canon. How much that make real world difference? And what exactly dynamic range represent- colors range or contrast rage or something else?


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## mrlebeau315 (Apr 6, 2016)

If Sony announces an upgrade to their a7*II series this year, I think they just might take my $3,500 before Canon has an opportunity to. Let's see if Canon or Sony wants my money more.


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## romanr74 (Apr 6, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Takingshots said:
> 
> 
> > Lots of grumbles for DR range, pricing, 4K, flip and touch screen, etc. For gripe-sakes Canon, give Cannonites what they want. Listen to your consumers. Period.
> ...



Ouch... ;-)


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## Lurker (Apr 6, 2016)

> $2597 so $2900 represents an increase of more than 10%



Inflation? Long term inflation rate is 3.22%, more recently it has been 2.25-2.5% (In the US)

3.22% 2597 2681 2767 2856 2957
2.5% 2597 2662 2728 2797 2867
2.25% 2597 2655 2715 2776 2839

Canon will set the price based on the factors they deem significant. Canon will include features based on factors they deem significant. People will buy or not based on the factors they deem significant. What are these factors? I don't know and don't care. What is the price and what are the features? We don't know.

For me I may jump on the next 5D at $3500. If things work out the way I'd like I'll be buying my dream camera system this year. Currently I'm thinking a 5D III and 7D II for bodies. If the next 5D has the image quality and good enough frame rates I may buy that instead. All depends on timing and the factors I deem significant at the time.

Now, stop reading my dumb post and live your life.


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## scyrene (Apr 6, 2016)

Fwiw, an announcement at the end of summer actually suits *my personal* upgrade path. Everybody's different. But then I don't really put much stock in all these rumours of when things will happen, and wouldn't plan what I was going to do based on them. I'm looking at what cameras are available now, and which I prefer to my current one - if any - and then when I can afford them. It's a lot less stressful, by the look of things.


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## jebrady03 (Apr 6, 2016)

Lurker said:


> > $2597 so $2900 represents an increase of more than 10%
> 
> 
> 
> ...



http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/inflation/historical-inflation-rates/

Not according to that website. And if you use the inflation calculator in the upper right corner of that page and type in the year 2012 and price $2597, you'll see that the cumulative rate of inflation is 3.3% for a total price of $2682.


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## Chuck Alaimo (Apr 6, 2016)

Ugggg... count me as one of those wedding shooters that now need to figure out new plans. October release means I won't be upgrading my mk3 until late spring of 2017. I've put a lot of clicks on that mk3 too and my 6d frustrates me mostly because the button layout is different enough that I stumble with settings. So the 6d needs to get swapped out.

Options, the 1Dx2 is nice but I can't see myself buying that, I just have 0 need for all that fps. It's a great camera for sure but for that kind of $$$$ it's gotta be a better match for what I shoot, last I checked bride's aren't sprinting down the isle. I rarely use the max fps of the 5d3 even. I keep it in silent mode 99.9% of the time. So I'm either snagging a 5ds/r, or, maybe a refurbished 5d3. 5ds is also a great camera, but those big files are a worry. So that leaves a very boring option, just getting another 5d3. If I do that then I may go used/refurbished because I just can't see spending that kind of capital on a 4 year old body.

So yeah, bad timing canon.


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## kaptainkatsu (Apr 6, 2016)

Looks like I'll be picking up a 1DXII


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 6, 2016)

Lurker said:


> Canon will set the price based on the factors they deem significant.



Wait...you're saying that Canon won't consider the opinions of a few CR forum readers in that decision?!?


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## unfocused (Apr 6, 2016)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> Ugggg... count me as one of those wedding shooters that now need to figure out new plans...
> 
> ...that leaves a very boring option, just getting another 5d3. If I do that then I may go used/refurbished because I just can't see spending that kind of capital on a 4 year old body.
> 
> So yeah, bad timing canon.



Might be bad timing for Canon, but sounds like great timing for you. You can purchase the latest 5D for a great price now, then take your time upgrading to the 5DIV, if you feel it is worthwhile. Which means you won't have to pay the early adopter premium, you get to shoot another season with the best available wedding camera, and can sell one of the 5Ds to help offset the cost of the 5DIV without losing much money.


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## unfocused (Apr 6, 2016)

kaptainkatsu said:


> Looks like I'll be picking up a 1DXII



This is the option I'm leaning towards. I'll wait until the 5D IV is announced, as I don't need the 1D X II until indoor sports season starts up next fall/winter. By that time, there will have been plenty of reviews of the ID X, so I will know what I'm getting. I'll be able to see if the 5DIV might meet my needs (probably won't). I'll know if the sports portion of my workload is sufficient to justify the purchase, I'll have some time to arrange my finances and I can see if any good deals surface on the 1D X II. (Looking at the Canon Price Watch near straight line price history of the 1D X I, I sort of doubt I'll see much in the way of bargains. It doesn't seem like the 1D series drops much in price until it is near the end of cycle -- unlike other models).


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## ahsanford (Apr 6, 2016)

Mac Duderson said:


> STRICTLY MARKETING I have to agree with Canon on this "late" announcement.
> I also think last time when they announced the 1Dx and 5D3 close together was a huge mistake. :-[



They were not announced that close together -- it was 5-6 months apart, wasn't it? 

I seem to recall that the earthquake/tsunami in 2011 had a lot to do with the overlap of their time of actually shipping/release, which was quite close, wasn't it? 

- A


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## j-nord (Apr 6, 2016)

I think the price point will be in the $2999.99 - $3299.99 range. Consumers are used to the previous introductory MSRP of $3500 so a few 100 less is all they have to do to get attention in the US market. The average consumer is completely oblivious to R&D costs, material costs, mfg costs, and currency conversions. They just know the last version cost X and so the new version will probably cost X or X+. If instead it costs a little less than X, that will make most people happy. Further Canon has to pad the MSRP in the event the currency starts to go the other way and happily take the profits in the mean time.


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## pierlux (Apr 6, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> Mac Duderson said:
> 
> 
> > STRICTLY MARKETING I have to agree with Canon on this "late" announcement.
> ...



Precisely. Late fall availability seems to be the norm for the 5D line.


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 6, 2016)

Okay, so summarizing this thread:

1) Wedding season is ruined.

2) No one claimed my guess of 8 fps for the 5D4 was terrible, so I believe we can CR3 that spec. :

3) Whatever it is priced, it will sell well ...yet many will be butt-hurt about the price anyway. Revolts are imminent, apparently.

4) Canon will totally nerf the 5D4's frame rate to protect _7D2_ sales: because someone said so.

5) Everyone will leave to Nikon unless the AF points triple and it has 17 stops of low ISO DR.

6) I believe I counted *zero* childish see-saw arguments about tilty-flippy-touchy vs. rigid LCD screens. (Well done, people!)

Did I miss anything? 

- A


----------



## pierlux (Apr 6, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> Okay, so summarizing this thread:
> 
> 1) Wedding season is ruined.
> 
> ...



Yes. Canon are *******.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 6, 2016)

pierlux said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Okay, so summarizing this thread:
> ...



LOL. Literally!


----------



## Ozarker (Apr 6, 2016)

whothafunk said:


> I find it funny that whenever a CR2 or 3 rumor appears for the long awaited DSLR, people's morale, satisfaction and whatnot drastically raises and they instantly start to write down their wishes on what that said DSLR will have. However, who ever thinks 5D4 will sport a 10 FPS is seriously not understanding marketing and better start thinking realistically for their own good.



Or we'll all turn into pumpkins at midnight, right? "...for their own good." Pfttttt! haha!

10FPS is far enough under the 1DX Mark II. Hugely under. What is your marketing background again?


----------



## jeffa4444 (Apr 6, 2016)

pierlux said:


> Announcement:
> 5D was October.
> 5D II was November.
> 5D III was March, but most probably, not to say for sure, only because of the earthquake/tsunami.
> ...


5D was announced on 22nd August 2005
5D MKII announced on 17th September 2008 (at Photokina I was at the launch event) 
5D MKIII announced on 2nd March 2012


----------



## unfocused (Apr 6, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> whothafunk said:
> 
> 
> > ...However, who ever thinks 5D4 will sport a 10 FPS is seriously not understanding marketing and better start thinking realistically for their own good.
> ...



Perhaps Mr. Funk stated it poorly, but I believe he has a valid point. I think this might be more accurate:



ahsanford said:


> ... 2) No one claimed my guess of 8 fps for the 5D4 was terrible, so I believe we can CR3 that spec. :



10 fps may *sound* like it is significantly under the 1D X II, but in practice, if Canon feels the need to differentiate the products on that front, 8 fps is more reasonable. I use the 7DII for sports because of the better autofoucs and faster frame rate (10 fps). The 5DIII is simply too slow, but 10 fps is very fast. I am not sure the additional fps of the 1DX II will make much difference and I'm pretty sure that a 10 fps 5DIII (if it has better autofocus as well) would cut into 1D X sales -- indeed that will be a major factor driving my decision.


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 6, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> whothafunk said:
> 
> 
> > I find it funny that whenever a CR2 or 3 rumor appears for the long awaited DSLR, people's morale, satisfaction and whatnot drastically raises and they instantly start to write down their wishes on what that said DSLR will have. However, who ever thinks 5D4 will sport a 10 FPS is seriously not understanding marketing and better start thinking realistically for their own good.
> ...



10 fps is an 'emotional' threshold we associate with the 1D line. ...until the 7D2 got 10 fps. 

I still think Canon will put about 8 fps on the 5D4 -- enough to differentiate from the 5DS rigs, but not so fast as to be a '1DX II lite' for FF action/sports shooters.

But _could_ they go with 10 fps on the 5D4? Sure, I guess, but I just don't think they will.

- A


----------



## pierlux (Apr 6, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> whothafunk said:
> 
> 
> > I find it funny that whenever a CR2 or 3 rumor appears for the long awaited DSLR, people's morale, satisfaction and whatnot drastically raises and they instantly start to write down their wishes on what that said DSLR will have. However, who ever thinks 5D4 will sport a 10 FPS is seriously not understanding marketing and better start thinking realistically for their own good.
> ...



It's not only marketing: it may likely be physics. Remember: SINGLE Digic. Since it will probably be higher MP count than the 5D III, not even Digic 7 will be capable of safely handling 10 fps. It's not only a matter of processing capability, but also a matter of safely processing data, i.e. no overheating and no excessive current drain from a single LP6n battery. 7D II is dual Digic 6.


----------



## j-nord (Apr 6, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> 10 fps is an 'emotional' threshold we associate with the 1D line. ...until the 7D2 got 10 fps.
> 
> I still think Canon will put about 8 fps on the 5D4 -- enough to differentiate from the 5DS rigs, but not so fast as to be a '1DX II lite' for FF action/sports shooters.
> 
> ...



I agree that 8fps +/- 1 is most likely. It also depends on the mpix. If they are adding big boost in mpix, say to 30 then 10fps seems extremely unlikely. Maybe they will add a more useable 'sport mode' where its 30ish mpix by default or a 20ish mpix crop mode for higher fps.


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 6, 2016)

pierlux said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > whothafunk said:
> ...



Yep. Let's talk about that:

1DX = Digic x2
*5D3 = Digic x1*
7D2 = Digic x2
1DX II = Digic x2
5D4 = ???

Is a single chip a certainty on the 5D4?

Can someone explain to me why another ~ $3500 rig (the 5DS rigs) gets two chips to move a massive amount of data (50 MP x 5 fps) yet the 5D4 would not? Heck, for that matter, why does the _7D2_ get the ability to move all that data but the 5D4 does not?

I don't see why something in the same throughput of the 5DS, say (25-28 MP) X (8-10 fps) with two chips wouldn't be a reasonable expectation.

- A


----------



## pierlux (Apr 6, 2016)

jeffa4444 said:


> pierlux said:
> 
> 
> > Announcement:
> ...


You're right. I stand corrected, apologies. I should have written "Availability" instead of "Announcement". Damn hurry...


----------



## cayenne (Apr 6, 2016)

OneTrueKing said:


> I'm more than sure that CFast will be on board with SD. I think the price is not accurate though when you consider where the pricing for the 1DxII is currently, which is a lot less than the 1Dx. $2700 to 3200 will be price range if not a bit cheaper.



Why is the prediction for CFast and SD instead of CFast and CF card combination?

Cayenne


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 6, 2016)

cayenne said:


> OneTrueKing said:
> 
> 
> > I'm more than sure that CFast will be on board with SD. I think the price is not accurate though when you consider where the pricing for the 1DxII is currently, which is a lot less than the 1Dx. $2700 to 3200 will be price range if not a bit cheaper.
> ...



File this one under 'flippy screen vs. rigid LCD' as an unwinnable situation for Canon. Offering the 60% position of a 60/40 market split still leaves 40% of people out in the cold. Points to Nikon for offering swappable modules (or was it just different bodies) for preferred memory type on the D5.

As an enthusiast, I honestly prefer the convenience of SD -- SD readers are everywhere and make it easier to share pictures when I'm traveling -- no need for card readers and such. But, in fairness, I don't lean on the shutter button and tax my cards like others might. I'm guessing I'm in the minority in preferring SD.

However, the addition of on-board WiFi with the 5D4 (if true) might lessen the reliance on SD, one would think. 

- A


----------



## pierlux (Apr 6, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> Yep. Let's talk about that:
> 
> 1DX = Digic x2
> *5D3 = Digic x1*
> ...


I guess not, but it's highly probable.



ahsanford said:


> Can someone explain to me why another ~ $3500 rig (the 5DS rigs) gets two chips to move a massive amount of data (50 MP x 5 fps) yet the 5D4 would not? Heck, for that matter, why does the _7D2_ get the ability to move all that data but the 5D4 does not?


I'm afraid only Canon can answer this question. Perhaps, Canon simply feared that 50 MP @ 2.5 fps on a single Digic could have represented a sentence of doom. ;D



ahsanford said:


> I don't see why something in the same throughput of the 5DS, say (25-28 MP) X (8-10 fps) with two chips wouldn't be a reasonable expectation.


I think 25-28 MP @ 7-8 fps on a single Digic 7 is a reasonable expectation. 10 fps probably not. But, concerning why not dual Digic inside the 5D IV, we fall back in the domain of pure marketing strategy. Note that I'm speculating, only Canon knows. Of course I wouldn't complain if it was dual Digic, it's only that I highly doubt it.


----------



## RickWagoner (Apr 6, 2016)

There is a bunch of factors that go into fps. Shutter operation life, Mirror system design, Focus system, Data handling like a buffer for example, how much data is being sent, memory card speed, battery life, etc. Each of these can be affected by other operations in the camera, like for example is you're full manual but have auto ISO then your buffer rate will take a hit and that will affect how the mirror flip works. 

I would not compare a 7d2 fps to a full frame as the mirror system in under a completely different load on a smaller mirror and also a smaller shutter for a smaller sensor.

If Canon would to put a 10fps burst speed in the next 5D then they either have to invest in a new mirror and shutter system, borrow one from the 1dx, or create a hybrid of both. Borrowing may be the least in cost and R&D at first but may cost much more in production. Creating a new system would cost lots of money and time to make sure it is ready for prime time, creating a hybrid is the best option as it won't need as much money invested but still lots of testing time. Is this one feature worth so much in the next 5D? Remember Canon still has to work this out with the other parts that are affected by a 10fps burst. 

What i do know is Canon most likely down rated the 5D3 fps in software for quality and reliability. Like German cars detune HP and Torque from their engines via software. Most likely the 5D3 can do a 7fps burst and all the parts inside can handle it, maybe even 8fps. Even in the older parts they are using in the camera.

With todays parts they could put a 9fps burst but most likely will detune it to 8fps or 7fps in software for quality and reliability. If i had to guess it i would go 7-8 fps max and would be surprised they go 9 fps even with a battery grip.


----------



## pierlux (Apr 6, 2016)

RickWagoner said:


> There is a bunch of factors that go into fps. Shutter operation life, Mirror system design, Focus system, Data handling like a buffer for example, how much data is being sent, memory card speed, battery life, etc. Each of these can be affected by other operations in the camera, like for example is you're full manual but have auto ISO then your buffer rate will take a hit and that will affect how the mirror flip works.
> 
> I would not compare a 7d2 fps to a full frame as the mirror system in under a completely different load on a smaller mirror and also a smaller shutter for a smaller sensor.
> 
> ...


I have to agree with you. Safely handling data is the key. Who knows, that may probably be the reason some Nikon batteries exploded in the past, maybe extremely engineered cameras to milk out too many fps? Some Nikon cameras could not even take advantage of their full speed potential unless gripped with 2 batteries inside... Overall, I think Canon put greater attention on certain aspects of safety with respect to Nikon.


----------



## gmon750 (Apr 6, 2016)

jkillsomtam said:


> This is absurd timing since the difference between 5D mark ii and 5D mark iii release was roughly 3 years. Why would it now be a 4 year release? I was banking on this coming out early May and would have paid a premium price for it if it has 4k at 60fps and higher dynamic range than it's competitors. Now, I feel stuck before wedding season with the need to make a decision around NAB.
> 
> I think a lot of people are in the same boat as me and want and expect the 5D mark iv to be out shortly after NAB. Anything later is just dissapointing.



It has always been every four years between model refreshes. So far, the 5DMx is sticking to that schedule. I distinctly remember all the rumors stating it would come out last year (2015) which would have been unusual.

Only difference is that this year it may be introduced a few months later than normal.


----------



## Chuck Alaimo (Apr 6, 2016)

unfocused said:


> Chuck Alaimo said:
> 
> 
> > Ugggg... count me as one of those wedding shooters that now need to figure out new plans...
> ...



Yeah, I getcha --- I mean, it's not like I'll be bummed with a 5ds - on the rentals i have had it is an awesome camera - but, I need something more capable than my 6d to fill in the second body blank. A second 5d3 is the boring, sound and reasonable path. Even brand new it's far less than a 5ds(r). I won't be able to pull the trigger until june anyway, so I have time to decide.


----------



## gunship01 (Apr 6, 2016)

kaptainkatsu said:


> Looks like I'll be picking up a 1DXII



Precisely why the 5D4 timeline is pushed to the right. So that others will say the same thing.


----------



## Maiaibing (Apr 6, 2016)

gmon750 said:


> It has always been every four years between model refreshes.



Not at all. Compared to 5D/5DII and 5DII/5DIII the 5DIV is overdue.

In fact 4 years is a really long time. 

Maybe Canon thinks having 4 year cycles can "force" customers to upgrade every camera generation. Would anyone take a 6 y/o 5DIII with >200.000 shots to a Safari in Africa or another once-in-a-lifetime event as their only camera? I would certainly not risk that myself. 

Fortunately, I broke out of the spider's web by getting a 5DS/R myself 8).


----------



## LoneRider (Apr 6, 2016)

1) The whole currency thing is a rouge, free market will rule, and they will price the darn thing to maximize profit, you know, the supply/demand thing.

2) Considering what the 80D is doing to the 7D-ii, I don't see taking them limiting FPS to protect the cheaper camera sales.

3) This is going to be an instant segment leader. If this is correct, GPS, WIFI, TouchScreen, which implies DPAF (duh  ), the only questions are

- card formats?
- FPS?
- when?
- how much?

Yeah, there are subtle things, but the IQ/DR improvements seen in the 1DX-ii and 80D are going to be there over the 5D-iii

But what features are they going to leave out, flicker?? nah.

This is going to be a Holly Grail camera that is keeping thousands and thousands credit cards in their owners wallets. My 7D and 50D will have to keep me. I've thought about getting a used 6D, but how much of a hit am I going to take keeping it for 6-12 months? My wife is just telling me to hold on until the camera I want is available. Don't waste the money and settle.

For the few extra 1DX-ii sales, would they really hold back the 5D-iv, when for all accounts it is going to be a game changer?

The FAB schedule was easy, 1DX-ii sensor out to production, 80D sensor out to production, 5D-iv sensor to production. Add in the R&D for the mirror system on the 5D-iv and other bits to go through qualification.

When you look an the design, qualification and manufacturing processes, each step takes time. Unless Canon has a whole bunch of parallel teams, you have to schedule the projects consecutively, there is only so much you can overlap.

Beyond that, add in the fact that they will need 4 to 6 months of production sitting in warehouses for initial release. The worst thing they can do is announce a product, and have 10's of thousands of people waiting for 4 months to get one.

If release date is Sept/Oct, I could readily imagine pre-production runs have already been completed, and low volume production runs have started.

This is the camera that is going to get Sony converts back 

Oh well, that is my $0.02.


----------



## LoneRider (Apr 6, 2016)

I am going to expand a bit on the one point people seem to completely pass.

Canon has a serious first, significant DR increase, which appears to be ADC on die, and DPAF on a FF sensor.

When you think about the R&D cycles, and process improvements in the FAB, and possibly packaging to accomplish this, it is truly an impressive accomplishment. So, for your extra year or so in the design cycle, there it is.

So with ADC on sensor, and DPAF, you also have thermal issues that have to be accounted for, and that comes down to possibly new packaging innovations. And then you need to handle automotive temp ranges, pass temperature cycle tests without delaminations, and so on.

There is a heck of a lot of work, that, to a certain extent has to be done iteratively with design cycles taking months!

It is very feasible, that Canon is in fact getting out the cameras as quickly as possible, which great quality.

But, on the other hand, I've got $3500 sitting in my bank account with a 5D-iv label on it. I want it *NOW*


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 6, 2016)

Maiaibing said:


> gmon750 said:
> 
> 
> > It has always been every four years between model refreshes.
> ...



This has come up a bunch of times in this thread. Let's get some data, eh? See below.

Announcement dates are from Wikipedia (those ought to be right on the day), _release_ dates are from google searches (might be off a few days). For good measure, I've crudely stabbed at the 5D4 dates for a swag of how long the wait would be in total.

So yes, they are slightly slow in this refresh, though that might have something to do with...


The creation of the 6D line
The 'side-refresh' the 5DS rigs represented
The rise of Cinema EOS

I'm no Canon apologist, but the FF camera space was a tad less complicated before the 5D3 was released, wasn't it?

- A


----------



## neuroanatomist (Apr 6, 2016)

CR Forum: "You're late."

Canon: "Canon is never late. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to."


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 6, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> CR Forum: "You're late."
> 
> Canon: "Canon is never late. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to."


_
But I made a chart, Neuro!_ :'(


----------



## neuroanatomist (Apr 6, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > CR Forum: "You're late."
> ...



A map on parchment, with runes visible only by the light of a moon of the same shape and season under which they were written, would have been more appropriate.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 6, 2016)

mrlebeau315 said:


> If Sony announces an upgrade to their a7*II series this year, I think they just might take my $3,500 before Canon has an opportunity to. Let's see if Canon or Sony wants my money more.



They likely will.

Sony is churning out upgrades every year or two, and dropping models and discontinuing service almost as fast. They need to start providing service and stop discontinuing models after 3 or 4 years. When you can't get service after 4 years for a $3500 camera, its going to shock a lot of people. Actually, trying to get a recent model serviced is painfully slow. You will miss the entire wedding season if you have to have Sony service your camera in April.


----------



## jeffa4444 (Apr 6, 2016)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> mrlebeau315 said:
> 
> 
> > If Sony announces an upgrade to their a7*II series this year, I think they just might take my $3,500 before Canon has an opportunity to. Let's see if Canon or Sony wants my money more.
> ...


They are no better with servicing F65, F55 & F5 cameras!


----------



## Dverb (Apr 6, 2016)

So I have seen subtopics in here discussing 8 fps vs 10 fps - but one item that I haven't seen discussed in this thread is the "doability" of 10 fps on a FF sensor _while also having a silent shutter_ similar to the 5Diii. The 1DX and 1DX obviously show that Canon can do the faster speed but the shutter design for that speed on the FF sensor also makes it very noisy.

The 7Dii has the 10 fps but due to the smaller sensor it seems that Canon was able to find a way to design that shutter to get to 10 fps while not being as noisy as the 1DX or 1DXii.

So the question in my mind is, will Canon be able to give us 10 fps in a FF with a silent shutter that the wedding market segment needs?


----------



## Don Haines (Apr 6, 2016)

Dverb said:


> So I have seen subtopics in here discussing 8 fps vs 10 fps - but one item that I haven't seen discussed in this thread is the "doability" of 10 fps on a FF sensor _while also having a silent shutter_ similar to the 5Diii. The 1DX and 1DX obviously show that Canon can do the faster speed but the shutter design for that speed on the FF sensor also makes it very noisy.
> 
> The 7Dii has the 10 fps but due to the smaller sensor it seems that Canon was able to find a way to design that shutter to get to 10 fps while not being as noisy as the 1DX or 1DXii.
> 
> So the question in my mind is, will Canon be able to give us 10 fps in a FF with a silent shutter that the wedding market segment needs?


The 7D2 does 10FPS..... but that is with the normal "loud" shutter. In the silent shutter mode it drops to 5FPS.


----------



## bdunbar79 (Apr 6, 2016)

It's also the durability of the shutter. The 1Dx is loud because it has a much more robust design to a rating of 400k.


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 7, 2016)

Dverb said:


> So the question in my mind is, will Canon be able to give us 10 fps in a FF with a silent shutter that the wedding market segment needs?



_Weddings_ need 10 fps? I am not a wedding photographer, but I seldom see pros leaning on their shutter button when I attend weddings myself.

Wouldn't you go with the 'loud' shutter for 10 fps action/sports/wildlife work and a slower quiet shutter for events/weddings/concerts?

Forgive my confusion -- I mean no disrespect, but I just don't understand your need for 10 fps silent shooting.

- A


----------



## Don Haines (Apr 7, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> Dverb said:
> 
> 
> > So the question in my mind is, will Canon be able to give us 10 fps in a FF with a silent shutter that the wedding market segment needs?
> ...


I don't know..... after 12 expressos bridezilla is moving around like a hummingbird


----------



## neuroanatomist (Apr 7, 2016)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Sony is churning out upgrades every year or two, and dropping models and discontinuing service almost as fast. They need to start providing service and stop discontinuing models after 3 or 4 years. When you can't get service after 4 years for a $3500 camera, its going to shock a lot of people.



Not to worry. Sony releases such technologically astounding new models so frequently that no self-respecting Sony user could live with themselves if using a camera even 18 months old, let alone a decrepit 4 year old piece of garbage not even suitable for a trash heap. Or so I've learned reading this forum. :


----------



## gunship01 (Apr 7, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Dverb said:
> ...



Ok, that was LOL


----------



## Dverb (Apr 7, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> Forgive my confusion -- I mean no disrespect, but I just don't understand your need for 10 fps silent shooting.



Upon reading my post... I see how it could be taken the way you saw it. 

I don't believe weddings typically need 10 fps. The point was that some people want 10 fps in the new 5D but others will want the silent shutter retained. One of the big benefits that I see the 5D series having over the 1D is the silent shutter. Will the 5D lose this benefit if the shutter speed gets pushed to 10 fps?

I am just wondering if a FF with 10 fps is physically possible while also having a good silent shutter.


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 7, 2016)

Dverb said:


> Upon reading my post... I see how it could be taken the way you saw it.
> 
> I don't believe weddings typically need 10 fps. The point was that some people want 10 fps in the new 5D but others will want the silent shutter retained. One of the big benefits that I see the 5D series having over the 1D is the silent shutter. Will the 5D lose this benefit if the shutter speed gets pushed to 10 fps?
> 
> I am just wondering if a FF with 10 fps is physically possible while also having a good silent shutter.



Clarification appreciated! Very helpful.

I don't know shutter design well enough to comment, but here are a few examples to consider:

5D3 = FF = 6 fps loud / 3 fps silent 
7D2 = Crop = 10 fps loud / 4 fps silent
1DX II = FF = 14-16 fps loud / 5 fps silent (If I understand the manual correctly)

That last entry is the key one, I think. The 1DX II has a FF silent shooting mode that clears 10 fps when it is turned off. So in my mind, it's not a question of technical feasibility so much as _cost_.

- A


----------



## pierlux (Apr 7, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> CR Forum: "You're late."
> 
> Canon: "Canon is never late. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to."



*CANON EOS 5D MARK IV TO BE OFFERED WITH BUNDLED FIREWORKS INSTEAD OF THE USUAL KIT LENS [CR3]*

BY CANON RUMORS APRIL 6, 2016 CANON DSLR RUMORS


----------



## Ozarker (Apr 7, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > Sony is churning out upgrades every year or two, and dropping models and discontinuing service almost as fast. They need to start providing service and stop discontinuing models after 3 or 4 years. When you can't get service after 4 years for a $3500 camera, its going to shock a lot of people.
> ...



Sony: The Plymouth Horizon of the camera world. Don't repair, just replace is the business model.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 7, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > gmon750 said:
> ...



Now you can extrapolate, we know when the 5D MK V will arrive, should anyone care to wait 

I think that 3-4 years is a good interval between models, Canon has previously stated that they want to wait until significant improvements are ready, but I'll bet that the new CEO is telling managers to make that happen faster.

We'll see if that takes.

I'll wait 6 months or 9 months for the price to drop. I bought a 5D MK III from Adorama for $3500 which was shipped in the first batch and arrived about the first of April 2012. I bought a second one also from Adorama for $2750 in early September of 2012 for $2750 and received a free Canon LP-E6 battery. That's only 6-7 months later and $850 less.


----------



## Maiaibing (Apr 7, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> they are slightly slow in this refresh, though that might have something to do with...
> 
> 
> The creation of the 6D line
> ...



"Slightly slow" seems somewhat an understatement - as your table reflects. Canon has previously acknowledged that being slow in getting new bodies into the market has cost them sales so I am not sure they are quite comfortable with the timing of the 5DIV. Personally I think they are working very hard to ensure the 5DIV represents a somewhat significant jump up from the 5DIII. There's certainly a lot that can and must be done to command a 3.500 price tag if Canon wants to aim for that.


----------



## great9 (Apr 7, 2016)

mrlebeau315 said:


> If Sony announces an upgrade to their a7*II series this year, I think they just might take my $3,500 before Canon has an opportunity to. Let's see if Canon or Sony wants my money more.



Oh no you didnt just say that. You shut up you hear me? 

I wish there was a rule that allowed reporting such blasphemy to moderators


----------



## AdamBotond (Apr 7, 2016)

I have to agree that releasing the 5D mk IV in September, scheduling the shipping in October/November is just wrong, misplaced, a big mistake from Canon. 5D IV is supposed to be an "all around" camera aiming wedding, wildlife, landscape photographers and the list goes on and on. By late autumn, most of the events are gone, so by that late release most of us will only be able to start using the 5D successor practically in early 2017. And I'm not buying that "we want to make sure that improvents are incremental to make the upgrade worthy" bullshit. They had 4 years, while other brands stole the show (Sony mostly).

I am interested mostly in wildlife and I had high hopes to use the 5D IV for the deer rut in September, October. Instead I will be stuck with my recent (decent) 6D as IQ, GPS, Wifi, low light capabilities are the most important for me. In other words, if I don't want to compromise the those features above, I can only switch to 5x more expensive rig, the 1DXII, which I can obviously not afford. 

Anyway, I still have my fingers crossed for and early Summer 5D release...


----------



## Maiaibing (Apr 7, 2016)

AdamBotond said:


> high hopes to use the 5D IV for the deer rut in September, October. Instead I will be stuck with my recent (decent) 6D



You should seriously get a 5DS/R - or rent one for this. It would be absolutely perfect.


----------



## olix (Apr 7, 2016)

I would expect from the next generation of 5D... to be a cutting edge camera.
At least, for video, it should keep a decent position (dehind Panasonic and Sony, but very close to Nikon) for the next 3-4 years.
I look at it as a 4 year investment. In 2020, it still should be a good camera.
And I'm afraid, going with 4k/60p - 1080p/120p wouldn't be enough for 2020, but it might be for now...
A ~3.000.000 ISO it would be desirable, but who knows? 
I'll put my money aside till October... And then I'll decide who follows my interests and who deserves my money.
Metabones is an option.


----------



## pierlux (Apr 7, 2016)

A thought has just crossed my mind...

Why should Canon care at all about when is wedding season, or any other kind of season (wildlife, whatever) in the USA to plan the announcement or release of a camera, when in other parts of the world their respective seasons happen to occur in totally different periods of the year? Some of the most densely populated countries calibrate their seasons on the basis of the monsoon, some other countries happen to have no seasons at all because it's "season" any time of the year... how can there be a right or wrong timing by Canon's point of view?

Just a thought...


----------



## neuroanatomist (Apr 7, 2016)

pierlux said:


> A thought has just crossed my mind...
> 
> Why should Canon care at all about when is wedding season, or any other kind of season (wildlife, whatever) in the USA to plan the announcement or release of a camera, when in other parts of the world their respective seasons happen to occur in totally different periods of the year? Some of the most densely populated countries calibrate their seasons on the basis of the monsoon, some other countries happen to have no seasons at all because it's "season" any time of the year... how can there be a right or wrong timing by Canon's point of view?
> 
> Just a thought...



Because we're 'merica, dammit. :

Actually, based on CIPA data, shipments to Europe and North America account for about half of global ILC sales, so I think it makes sense for Canon to care. But that's one among many factors – things like production cycles, where they want a launch to fall with respect to their fiscal status, etc.


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## Maiaibing (Apr 7, 2016)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> When you can't get service after 4 years for a $3500 camera, its going to shock a lot of people.



Have no clue if this is the case for SONY service. But since Canon can get away stopping service for a $5.000 lens (original 200mm f/1,8) after 3 years maybe SONY just picked up on somebody else's bad idea.


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## tendeadpixels (Apr 7, 2016)

Well hi there. This is my first post here as I am new user. I was until a few days ago a Nikon owner but I have sold all the equipment in order to do the switch to Canon 8) I was pretty sure that the camera I needed was 5DMK3 with a 24-105 L f/4 lens and a 600EX-RT flash. My budget is kind of limited to around 3000 EUROS. Is this a good choice? I don't really think I can wait until September to buy the new model! Any opinions? I have no idea or whatsoever on Canon products. Sorry... ??? Any guidance will be helpful! 

Regards, 

Athos.


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## unfocused (Apr 7, 2016)

tendeadpixels said:


> Well hi there. This is my first post here as I am new user. I was until a few days ago a Nikon owner but I have sold all the equipment in order to do the switch to Canon 8) I was pretty sure that the camera I needed was 5DMK3 with a 24-105 L f/4 lens and a 600EX-RT flash. My budget is kind of limited to around 3000 EUROS. Is this a good choice? I don't really think I can wait until September to buy the new model! Any opinions? I have no idea or whatsoever on Canon products. Sorry... ??? Any guidance will be helpful!
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Athos.



Of course it is a good choice. The 5DIII is at its lowest price ever and the basic combination with a 24-105 L lens and 600 EX-RT will get you a great start. The 5DIII remains one of the best cameras ever and will continue to be a great camera even after a new version is released.


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## j-nord (Apr 7, 2016)

tendeadpixels said:


> Well hi there. This is my first post here as I am new user. I was until a few days ago a Nikon owner but I have sold all the equipment in order to do the switch to Canon 8) I was pretty sure that the camera I needed was 5DMK3 with a 24-105 L f/4 lens and a 600EX-RT flash. My budget is kind of limited to around 3000 EUROS. Is this a good choice? I don't really think I can wait until September to buy the new model! Any opinions? I have no idea or whatsoever on Canon products. Sorry... ??? Any guidance will be helpful!
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Athos.



I'm curious what made you switch if you don't know anything about canon products? 

Also, you could save some money and buy a lightly used 5DIII and 24-105L. By the way, the Sigma 24-105 f4 Art lens is a good amount sharper (but with a bit more chromatic aberration) than the canon one, worth considering.


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## JohnUSA (Apr 7, 2016)

tendeadpixels said:


> Well hi there. This is my first post here as I am new user. I was until a few days ago a Nikon owner but I have sold all the equipment in order to do the switch to Canon 8) I was pretty sure that the camera I needed was 5DMK3 with a 24-105 L f/4 lens and a 600EX-RT flash. My budget is kind of limited to around 3000 EUROS. Is this a good choice? I don't really think I can wait until September to buy the new model! Any opinions? I have no idea or whatsoever on Canon products. Sorry... ??? Any guidance will be helpful!
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Athos.



If you live in the USA buy Canon Refurbished cameras and lens:

http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/refurbished-eos-digital-slr-cameras#facet:-81036979833253683283101114105101115&productBeginIndex:0&orderBy:&pageView:grid&minPrice:&maxPrice:&pageSize:&

My last three or four (lost count) Canon cameras were refurbished. All going strong.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 7, 2016)

Save your pennies!


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## mitchelljd (Apr 7, 2016)

Well, this is a bit disappointing. Had hoped for a spring to early summer release. 

Reality is Canon sticking to slow product refreshes may drive me over to Sony. 

I have a few L Series lenses, but it does get frustrating when it's such a long delay between this and the Mark III. At least Sony refreshes their cameras about yearly, sometimes sooner.


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## Lurker (Apr 7, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Lurker said:
> 
> 
> > Canon will set the price based on the factors they deem significant.
> ...



Oh no no no. They won't consider the opinions of any of the insignificant members. The significant members will still be given consideration.


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## scyrene (Apr 8, 2016)

mitchelljd said:


> Well, this is a bit disappointing. Had hoped for a spring to early summer release.
> 
> Reality is Canon sticking to slow product refreshes may drive me over to Sony.
> 
> I have a few L Series lenses, but it does get frustrating when it's such a long delay between this and the Mark III. At least Sony refreshes their cameras about yearly, sometimes sooner.



I for one will never tire of people's first posts claiming to be long time Canon users suddenly deciding to convert to Sony (or occasionally Nikon).

(PS if you're real, why is yearly refresh a good thing?)


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## Jack Douglas (Apr 8, 2016)

scyrene said:


> mitchelljd said:
> 
> 
> > Well, this is a bit disappointing. Had hoped for a spring to early summer release.
> ...



I read CR for its idle threats!  

Jack


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## tendeadpixels (Apr 8, 2016)

j-nord said:


> tendeadpixels said:
> 
> 
> > Well hi there. This is my first post here as I am new user. I was until a few days ago a Nikon owner but I have sold all the equipment in order to do the switch to Canon 8) I was pretty sure that the camera I needed was 5DMK3 with a 24-105 L f/4 lens and a 600EX-RT flash. My budget is kind of limited to around 3000 EUROS. Is this a good choice? I don't really think I can wait until September to buy the new model! Any opinions? I have no idea or whatsoever on Canon products. Sorry... ??? Any guidance will be helpful!
> ...



Well it's not that I don't know anything about Canon products...I've just never used Canon for work or projects, I was always Nikon...for some reason.  Well I also teach Photography workshops and that makes me study and research a lot the various advancements of each company. I do believe that Canon is producing superior products. 
Another thing that made me switch to Canon, is more or less based on the two companies' cameras timeline. Since 2012 Nikon released D800, D800E, D750, D600, D810, and D810A!!!! to compete with 5DMK3 and 6D!!! They (Nikon) released 6!!! models (with all their problems and issues they had/have) in order to compete with 2 models that are still top of the line! 
These are my thoughts around the decision I took to switch. I hope I've explained everything okay. Sorry if my writing is not so good (English is not my first language).


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## ironfreak (Apr 8, 2016)

tendeadpixels said:


> j-nord said:
> 
> 
> > tendeadpixels said:
> ...



Looks like we're in the same boat. I have been a Nikon shooter and started feeling left out by the Canon uses in my group.. Stupid reason to make system switch and I sold out out my Nikon gear, which was pretty old though (D80 and few lenses). To wait for 5D4 till October to get hands on it will be frustrating sitting home and doing nothing without camera. So I'm considering to buy either 5D3 or 6D. But will most likely buy 5D3.....


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## IglooEater (Apr 8, 2016)

Maiaibing said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > When you can't get service after 4 years for a $3500 camera, its going to shock a lot of people.
> ...



Guessing here, but that would be due to the same reason they discontinued it in the first place. Some of the parts no longer were allowable by environmental standards. (Lead and stuff). It must have been too complicated to be worth overhauling the design and changing parts, so they stopped making the parts. No more parts meant no new lenses, and, after the supplies ran out, no more service.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 8, 2016)

IglooEater said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > Mt Spokane Photography said:
> ...



By comparison, the 5D mirror fix was offered for 10 years as a free repair, and is apparently still available for a fee.


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## Robin 58 (Apr 8, 2016)

There were rumours that the 5D MK IV (or whatever the upgrade from the MK III was going to be) would be available last September, then it became this spring, now it's next September? And what guarantee is there that it will happen then? That effectively means another year for me as I can never afford launch prices. The Nikon 810 is now at affordable prices so I'll have a look at that as I'm not prepared to wait any longer to upgrade my 5D MK II (the MK III came out soon after I bought the MK II so couldn't afford to upgrade to that. I could now, but I thought I may as well wait for a MK IV seeing as one was expected.) I think Canon may have shot themselves in the foot with this. Sales of the MK III must have dwindled when rumours of a MK IV started and now anyone looking for a camera in that price and spec. range are surely going to be looking at Nikon?


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## d (Apr 8, 2016)

Robin 58 said:


> There were rumours that the 5D MK IV (or whatever the upgrade from the MK III was going to be) would be available last September, then it became this spring, now it's next September? And what guarantee is there that it will happen then? That effectively means another year for me as I can never afford launch prices. The Nikon 810 is now at affordable prices so I'll have a look at that as I'm not prepared to wait any longer to upgrade my 5D MK II (the MK III came out soon after I bought the MK II so couldn't afford to upgrade to that. I could now, but I thought I may as well wait for a MK IV seeing as one was expected.) I think Canon may have shot themselves in the foot with this. Sales of the MK III must have dwindled when rumours of a MK IV started and now anyone looking for a camera in that price and spec. range are surely going to be looking at Nikon?



HUH???

You're looking for "guaranteed" rumours? There's a reason why they're called rumours...

If you were originally expecting a release of a Mk IV last September, and if it *does* actually become available this September...doesn't that mean you've had an extra year to budget for it?

And if upgrading from a MK II -> D810 seems like the most logical thing (I assume there will also need to be some lenses bought and sold as well), good luck to you!

d.


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## IglooEater (Apr 8, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > Maiaibing said:
> ...



Yup. Sorry, I forgot to specify: my post was in reference to the 200mm 1.8, not the Sony. No idea what excuse Sony has. Just meant to point out that the 200 1.8 was somewhat exceptional.


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## IglooEater (Apr 8, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> CR Forum: "You're late."
> 
> Canon: "Canon is never late. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to."



Neuro you're my hero! I really did laugh out loud at that one it was so fitting


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## traveller (Apr 8, 2016)

Strange things going on in this thread... We seem to have Nikon users wanting to sell up their gear to buy either old or non-existent Canon cameras and Canon users threatening to sell their gear to move to either old or non-existent Nikon cameras. 

I'm sure that there's logic somewhere in all this, but I'm b*ggered if I can see it!


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## IglooEater (Apr 8, 2016)

Robin 58 said:


> There were rumours that the 5D MK IV (or whatever the upgrade from the MK III was going to be) would be available last September, then it became this spring, now it's next September? And what guarantee is there that it will happen then? That effectively means another year for me as I can never afford launch prices. The Nikon 810 is now at affordable prices so I'll have a look at that as I'm not prepared to wait any longer to upgrade my 5D MK II (the MK III came out soon after I bought the MK II so couldn't afford to upgrade to that. I could now, but I thought I may as well wait for a MK IV seeing as one was expected.) I think Canon may have shot themselves in the foot with this. Sales of the MK III must have dwindled when rumours of a MK IV started and now anyone looking for a camera in that price and spec. range are surely going to be looking at Nikon?


 
If my memory serves me, the only person that was saying with any level of certainty that the 5D IV was coming last September was a rather vocal member of DPReview who has a history of being reliably wrong.


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## ahsanford (Apr 8, 2016)

IglooEater said:


> If my memory serves me, the only person that was saying with any level of certainty that the 5D IV was coming last September was a rather vocal member of DPReview who has a history of being reliably wrong.



I'm not surprised the timing has lagged compared to the prior 5D updates. Canon has a boatload more FF product lines now than before:


At the time of 5D2, the only other FF DSLRs they sold were... the 1Ds line, right? (You could throw the (not quite FF) 1D line up there, too, I suppose.)


Now there's the 6D line, the 5DS rigs, the Cinema 1D rig, 1DX line, etc. 

I remember when my only choice for a FF rig was a $3500 5D3 or the prior 5D2 in it's fourth year on the market. Now I have more choices. _Choices are good._ So this 'unacceptable delay' is not so unacceptable to me. 

- A


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## Maiaibing (Apr 8, 2016)

IglooEater said:


> No more parts meant no new lenses, and, after the supplies ran out, no more service.



Precisely, as soon as Canon stops production its only a question of time before the spare parts are gone. Typically 4-6 years after end of sales for Canon L-lenses.


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## Maiaibing (Apr 8, 2016)

Robin 58 said:


> anyone looking for a camera in that price and spec. range are surely going to be looking at Nikon?



Get a 5DS if you cannot wait. Super all-rounder - steep discount if you live in the US - but also good discounts elsewhere.


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## rrcphoto (Apr 8, 2016)

Maiaibing said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > No more parts meant no new lenses, and, after the supplies ran out, no more service.
> ...



not really. the 200 1.8 was a special case. applying it to all is a little indigenous.

the 200/1.8 had lead in some of the elements, that simply was not available anymore. period.


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## rrcphoto (Apr 8, 2016)

Robin 58 said:


> There were rumours that the 5D MK IV (or whatever the upgrade from the MK III was going to be) would be available last September, then it became this spring, now it's next September? And what guarantee is there that it will happen then? That effectively means another year for me as I can never afford launch prices. The Nikon 810 is now at affordable prices so I'll have a look at that as I'm not prepared to wait any longer to upgrade my 5D MK II (the MK III came out soon after I bought the MK II so couldn't afford to upgrade to that. I could now, but I thought I may as well wait for a MK IV seeing as one was expected.) I think Canon may have shot themselves in the foot with this. Sales of the MK III must have dwindled when rumours of a MK IV started and now anyone looking for a camera in that price and spec. range are surely going to be looking at Nikon?



since the Mark III is still one of the top selling full frame cameras on amazon. nope.

expecting the mark IV to magically come down 1K in a year is also a little out there.

you could buy a Mark III and probably sell it for nearly the same price as you purchased it at, making your "net cost" of the upgrade, next to nothing.


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## ahsanford (Apr 8, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> Robin 58 said:
> 
> 
> > Sales of the MK III must have dwindled when rumours of a MK IV started and now anyone looking for a camera in that price and spec. range are surely going to be looking at Nikon?
> ...



I wish the larger imaging companies would just open their books so we'd have data. If for no other reason than to shut down the internet naysayers.

I think people's minds would be blown at just how many 5D3s are sold, even in year 3 or 4 post-release. The 5D2 was a ground-breaking rig, but the 5D3 was an out and out cash-cow for Canon even if it was just an incremental step forward. The AF improvement alone was worth releasing that system.

- A


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## Maiaibing (Apr 8, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > Precisely, as soon as Canon stops production its only a question of time before the spare parts are gone. Typically 4-6 years after end of sales for Canon L-lenses.
> ...



Indigenous? Did not use the standard of the 200 f/1.8. 4-6 years is the time frame Canons traditionally has serviced its L-series lenses after end of sales.


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## ironfreak (Apr 9, 2016)

Canon will surprise everyone with 6D Mark II.


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## ahsanford (Apr 9, 2016)

ironfreak said:


> Canon will surprise everyone with 6D Mark II.



I give that zero chance of being announced before the 5D4. This is the game that seems to be playing out:

1) Announce 1DX II and promote it with marketing materials, promotional videos, etc.
2) Amass 1DX II pre-orders.
3) Let the market stew and wait for a bit.
4) Between the time the 1DX ships and the 5D4 is announced, flood the market with reviews and forums posts of happy 1DX II users. 
5) People waiting for the 5D4 _might _pull the trigger on the 1DX II rather than wait for the 5D4. 

Now repeat 1-5 but replace the 1DX II references with 5D4 and replace the original 5D4 references with the 6D2. The same thing will happen. 

Doing this out of order -- announcing the 6D2 first -- would seem to be unwise for Canon to do.

- A


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## canonic (Apr 9, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> CR Forum: "You're late."
> 
> Canon: "Canon is never late. Nor is he early. He arrives precisely when he means to."



Soniticus 18:2,4 "And he cried out with a strong voice, saying: “It has fallen! Canon the Great has fallen!"
“Get out of it, my people, if you do not want to share with it in its sins, and if you do not want to receive part of its plagues."

8)


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## fentiger (Apr 9, 2016)

carnt help noticing so many whinging about the 5d4 shipping late!
remember about this time last year rumors of the 1D2 where about the forum and canon stated that it would be the only DLSR with 4k.
well you all threw your toys out of your prams and crying its not on the new 5d there would be no sales and all would move to sony/nikon.
Well it seems Canon where hearing what you say, and said to their engineers find a way to get 4k on the 5D?
so this may well have put the release date of the 5D4 back by twelve months.
so stop whinging, be patient, put up or shut up


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## canonic (Apr 9, 2016)

fentiger said:


> Well it seems Canon where hearing what you say, and said to their engineers find a way to get 4k on the 5D?
> so this may well have put the release date of the 5D4 back by twelve months.



If this is the reason why 5D4 is comming later, then is worth it to wait. But we will never now ...Canon paths are very blurred


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## Jack Douglas (Apr 10, 2016)

canonic said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > CR Forum: "You're late."
> ...



Yes this is indeed the doom and gloom thread. I like the playpen analogy too! Not saying I don't have any sympathy but ...... 

Jack


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## Krob78 (Apr 11, 2016)

Jack Douglas said:


> canonic said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



I think all the whining is well served, this is similar to what happened in the 7D MkII threads and it was clear how well Canon was listening and responding to all the whining about the late release of that piece of equipment. Carry on on you fair weather friends of Canon, they are listening, I'm certain that they've boosted up production protocol just due to this thread.. How exciting!!   : :


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## slclick (Apr 11, 2016)

From "I want it yesterday" to "My friends and I have all been complaining" to "Canon is late" ...Wow, simply just WOW.

I'm imagining a board meeting of the C Suites at Canon, suddenly a red light starts flashing and someone screams" They are disappointed at Canon Rumors, a member with 1827 posts is calling the 5DlV late!"

Production is ramped up, an 8K module and sensor with better DR is installed. Nikon files for bankruptcy.


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## Mr. Milo (Apr 12, 2016)

I don't get the "Oh it's too late. I'm switching brands" talk. I know that Canon's cycle is every 4 years. It should be no surprise to anyone posting in Canon Rumors right now. We know the game. We'll have to see the official specs when Canon announces it. Simple stuff.

I'm a filmmaker who cannot afford Canon's C-line. The 5D Mark III is useless at this point for me. I'm pretty sure the Canon 5D Mark IV will beat Canon C100 Mark II. That's why it's not too late for me and I'm not switching brands.

The photography part is true though with what you guys say "You don't need a newer camera to take great pictures." However, I do need the latest stuff to get great video. So if you're a wedding videographer, I understand why you want to leave Canon and go to Sony. 

I cannot afford Canon 1DX Mark II because it's too expensive and does not fit my needs, but the 5D Mark IV is right. I'm hoping it has C-log right out of the box. I have my doubts that Canon is going to do that. I think it's lame to withhold it to protect their C-line. It's just a flat profile.


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## Maiaibing (Apr 12, 2016)

Mr. Milo said:


> The 5D Mark III is useless at this point for me. ..That's why it's not too late for me



Sort of doesn't quite add up...


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## Mr. Milo (Apr 12, 2016)

Maiaibing said:


> Mr. Milo said:
> 
> 
> > The 5D Mark III is useless at this point for me. ..That's why it's not too late for me
> ...



I didn't use "sort of" in my previous post so I don't know what you're talking about. I got into videography last year and got a 5D Mark II. Upgrading to a 5D Mark III is useless at this point for me with the upcoming 5D Mark IV. I'll just use the money that I would have spent on a 5D Mark III to get the Mark IV instead.


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## j-nord (Apr 12, 2016)

Mr. Milo said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > Mr. Milo said:
> ...



With the additional information your post makes some more sense but I agree your original comment didn't really add up, kind of contradictory.


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## gunship01 (Apr 13, 2016)

slclick said:


> From "I want it yesterday" to "My friends and I have all been complaining" to "Canon is late" ...Wow, simply just WOW.
> 
> I'm imagining a board meeting of the C Suites at Canon, suddenly a red light starts flashing and someone screams" They are disappointed at Canon Rumors, a member with 1827 posts is calling the 5DlV late!"
> 
> Production is ramped up, an 8K module and sensor with better DR is installed. Nikon files for bankruptcy.



LMAO! A verse from Lamentations...

..but where will the Canonites journey? Will no one hear their cries of woe!? With much wailing and gnashing of teeth, the Canonites did wander into the wilderness, collecting and saving their berries for the much vaulted 1DX II but alas, it is seemingly unfitting as the most virtuous of specifications contained therein doth not quench the deepest thirst. Tis the 5D4 which they seek, but patience knows not such passion and many gripped in the daily offerings of such speculation doth take pause as they remain curled on the floor, silently rocking within the corner of their darkened basement, and in a moment of maddening solitude, embrace in an epiphany, the immortal, yet chilling words of the 5D4 Raven sent by Canon - "Nevermore".

From the Biblical to Poe.


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## Ozarker (Apr 14, 2016)

gunship01 said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > From "I want it yesterday" to "My friends and I have all been complaining" to "Canon is late" ...Wow, simply just WOW.
> ...



Two obviously educated members. That just made this a great thread.


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## Sabaki (Apr 14, 2016)

Wondering if as many 5Diii owners will not upgrade, considering the trend when mark ii users didn't go to 3. 

Just a quick question, how many better is IQ on the 5Diii vs the 5D classic?


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## slclick (Apr 15, 2016)

Sabaki said:


> Wondering if as many 5Diii owners will not upgrade, considering the trend when mark ii users didn't go to 3.
> 
> Just a quick question, how many better is IQ on the 5Diii vs the 5D classic?



I won't upgrade but I will replace if mine dies. Or if I develop a need for a 2nd body than a refurb of a 5D4/X or 6D2 will be considered (2018 anyone?)


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## digital-jesus (Apr 15, 2016)

Sabaki said:


> Just a quick question, how many better is IQ on the 5Diii vs the 5D classic?



I have both and until iso 400 i can't see difference unless i do pixel peeping.


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