# Canon 14mm II for "Yangshuo, China"



## Dylan777 (Aug 6, 2013)

My next business trip to HK & China is in mid Sep. We going to have a weekend off in China, my co-workers and I are planning visit “Yangshuo, China”. You can see Yangshuo landscape in their $20 bill.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yangshuo_County#Landmarks

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&site=imghp&tbm=isch&source=hp&biw=1345&bih=583&q=Yangshuo&oq=Yangshuo&gs_l=img.3..0l10.75248.75248.0.76672.1.1.0.0.0.0.143.143.0j1.1.0....0...1ac..23.img..0.1.143.0--rVoPFPVg

*For the gear, I’m going heavy this time:*
1. First body - 5D III + 16-35 II or 14mm II + 24-70 II backup
2. Second body - 5D III + 70-200 f2.8 IS II
I never hand on 14mm II before and I would like to rent it for couple weeks for this trip. Are there any cons compared to 16-35 II?


*For those “been there & done that”:*
1. Are there places in “Yangshuo” that you recommend for landscape photos?
2. Activities that you would recommend? 
3. Since my co-workers and I don’t speak Chinese, do we really need a tour guy? We prefer our own paste, however, we still want to know the historical of Yangshuo. 

Look forward to have your feedbacks.

Thanks
Dylan


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## JPAZ (Aug 6, 2013)

Be prepared for haze and smog which may obscure the views, but also can impart an eerie feel to the landscape. If you can, go to Guilin and take the river boat to Yangshou for some great scenerie en route. When there, there is a mountain whose name I cannot recall, which is a popular and relatively easy climb for views (snag allowing). Also, you will see Comorant fisherman and that will present some interesting photo opportunities. I don't know if a CPL would be of use but wonder if it will help with the haze. 

At night, try to see the "light show" if it is available. This is a remarkable production using lights on adjacent terrain and hundreds of locals in costumes. This was originally produced by the same guy who did the opening ceremonies for the Beijing Olympics, to give you an idea of what I am describing.

It has been a few years, but I think we hired a local guide through the hotel. Everything we did while in Yangshou was accessible by walking except the mountain and for that we rented crappy bicycles from the hotel (fine for what we did). 

As far as the 14mm is concerned, I have the Samyang variety and not the Canon, but the wide angle might be interesting to use while there.

Sorry to perseverate on the smog but this was a huge issue just about everywhere I went in China.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 6, 2013)

Thanks JPAZ

Since we only have the weekend there, my co-workers and I are working a plan to get as much as posible. See our plan below. I'm not sure it do able or not. We can switch things around of course.


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## kaihp (Aug 6, 2013)

I would suggest you look into getting an English speaking tour guide/translator - very few speak (any) English.
This could be a local person, not just an official tour guide. Perhaps an English speaking employee from the Hotel who is off duty and willing to help you out for a payment.


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## JPAZ (Aug 6, 2013)

Dylan777 said:


> Thanks JPAZ
> 
> Since we only have the weekend there, my co-workers and I are working a plan to get as much as posible. See our plan below. I'm not sure it do able or not. We can switch things around of course.



Looks like you've got it covered.....the river trip, moon mountain and the show. Do find a local guide with some English (unless your associates include someone with language skills). Have a good trip.


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## Random Orbits (Aug 6, 2013)

I like the 14mm II and TS-E 17 better than the 16-35 II, but the 16-35 II is hard to beat for travel like this. The 14 II is prone to CAs and does not take filters, but it has better IQ than the 16-35 II, is wider and is more compact. Unless you plan on using the 16-35 II at 16mm exclusively, I wouldn't consider the 14mm prime. And the 14mm feels a lot wider in usage than the 2mm difference from the 16-35 II may indicate.

If I had the choice and had sufficient time, then I'd consider the TS-E 17 over the 16-35 II. The shift will help for architecture/landscape shots, and it can help get you some nice panoramas. But it is MF only. In this case, the 24-70 would be the primary, and the TS-E 17 would be for the special shots. If you're going to be crunched for time, then the 16-35 II offers good IQ but is much more versatile.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 6, 2013)

Thanks kaihp


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## Dylan777 (Aug 6, 2013)

Thanks Random Orbits

I had 16-35 II before. 99% of my photos were taken @ 16mm f8 to f16. I still have 82mm B&W CPL filter for it. I like the sharpness of my 24-70 II. It just not wide enough for certian shots.


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## lion rock (Aug 6, 2013)

Dylan,
Hope you will have a great trip to HK/China.
My experience with tours in China is that if you join a tour group, a fair part of the time would be spent on shopping. I went to two of these tours and they hurry you up so they can take you to shops.
My friend and his family went for a trip and hired a "private" car with an English speaking driver/tour guide thinking that there would be no shopping. It still did, but finally my friend insisted that they did no more shopping. The attitude of the driver changed to one that was indifferent to my friend and his family.
I would not know how the tour guides would treat a Westerner, but being Chinese tourists, we're not treated well in this respect.
If you're into wines, order bottles that are mid price, not the top price --- they can be "fake". Drink bottle water and make sure the seals are new.
Otherwise, have a great time and show photos you shoot there.
HK is great to spend a few days, too, if your schedule allows.
-r


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## cliffwang (Aug 6, 2013)

Angles of view for 16mm is 108 degree and for 14mm is 114 degree. If you are going to rent 14mm, I will suggest you leave your 16-35mm at home. 24-70mm + 14mm will be used probably 95% of the time.


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## minim2 (Aug 6, 2013)

Even if you take a boat from Guilin to Yangshou, Do the bamboo boat rafting in Yulong river. Bamboo boats are available in Li river too but not worth it in my opinion as too many motorized boats run through it but Yulong river has something special.. baby waterfalls kind of thing (many of them) and your bamboo boat falls in it.. it is fun and very safe. I was sitting on it with my 5DII and 24-105

Yangshou also has one night show and it is performed on Li river as a stage during night (they focus lights on nearby mountains making it really beautiful). show was directed by the same person who did it for Olympics in Beijing is what I heard. You may have to book this one in advance.

Don't forget to take a bicycle ride in countryside of Yangshou... if you are not in shape then book/hire a car if your budget permits.

I forgot the name of the hill but there is one hiking place (can be done in an hour) and view from there in the morning or evening is wonderful.

Guilin has one cave (reed flute or something like that)...small but worth going, it is really colorful and they have a lighting in there to make those colorful rocks look really nice.

There is also a place called longi rice fields.. we visited that during our return journey from Yanshou to Guilin.

Guilin is commercialized but you will meet great country people in Yangshou.

I am an expat living in HK and been to many places in China. Guilin/Yangshou was one of my favorite, I may visit that place again. I think I stayed in Li River Retreat and they were wonderful.


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## minim2 (Aug 6, 2013)

Depending on what you want to do.. if you want to explore countryside on bicycle then taking a guide maybe worth as not many may speak english, but then it could be fun too.


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## sanj (Aug 6, 2013)

I think the 14mm shots will produce more interesting shots.
I wonder why you taking two bodies when you will have all the time to change lenses.
Wish you a great trip and do post your masterpieces.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 6, 2013)

thanks lion rock,

I travel to HK & DongGuang, China 3-4 times a year. We have contract manufactures there. I know HK quite well. I can travel around HK by myself without any problem. China is little dif :-\


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## Dylan777 (Aug 6, 2013)

cliffwang said:


> Angles of view for 16mm is 108 degree and for 14mm is 114 degree. If you are going to rent 14mm, I will suggest you leave your 16-35mm at home. 24-70mm + 14mm will be used probably 95% of the time.



Yeap...either or


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## Dylan777 (Aug 6, 2013)

Thanks minim2


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## lion rock (Aug 6, 2013)

We are going back to HK to visit family this November, our annual visit, and one of our destination will be :
http://www.globalgeopark.org/aboutggn/list/china/6616.htm, lower right photo shows what I'm interest at.
Hope you can see that too, sometime.
-r


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## tron (Aug 6, 2013)

lion rock said:


> We are going back to HK to visit family this November, our annual visit, and one of our destination will be :
> http://www.globalgeopark.org/aboutggn/list/china/6616.htm, lower right photo shows what I'm interest at.
> Hope you can see that too, sometime.
> -r


Very interesting! (Please remove the coma from the url to make it work though).


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## Skirball (Aug 6, 2013)

I think most of it has been covered. I loved Yangshuo (and Guilin is worth spending time in as well). Personally I’ve never been a big fan of guides and I didn’t have any trouble getting around once you get into the western bubble around touristy Yangshuo. However, I did get a climbing guide for the first couple days I was there until I met climbing partners, and he ended up “guiding” me to the light show (which is a must). He got me in early and nabbed seats right up front. There’s no way that would have happened otherwise, it’s very chaotic. I wish I had the photographic skill and equipment that I have now, it’s very photogenic. I only eeked out a couple of lower res keepers. Have fun, I’d love to see your results.







The bus out to Moon rock is very scenic, though moon rock is packed to the gills with tourists. I’d recommend renting a bike in town and taking your time. I also regretted not doing a hot air balloon.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 6, 2013)

lion rock said:


> We are going back to HK to visit family this November, our annual visit, and one of our destination will be :
> http://www.globalgeopark.org/aboutggn/list/china/6616.htm, lower right photo shows what I'm interest at.
> Hope you can see that too, sometime.
> -r



Thanks for the link. What's the best trans method to get there Lion Rock? I'm guessing Ferry. How far from Tsuen Wang? 

Our office located in Tsuen Wang, HK. 5mins away from L hotel: http://www.lhotelcausewaybayhv.com/contact.php


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## CaiLeDao (Aug 6, 2013)

Few thoughts about Yangshuo.

The show was produced by John Emo who did the olympics plus films such as Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon. For the show IMHO the best place to sit is at the first wide aisle, about halfway through a lot of dancers come here in traditional dress and its a good photo opportunity. At the front you will be looking at the back of their heads.

The area is changing a lot and its getting harder to find great views around the town as they are now building upwards. The view shown on the CCTV of the mountains behind Yangshuo, which is magnificent no longer exists, without heavy photoshop removing modern buildings. (Chinese tourist photo's are not subject to our standards authority quality testing and are usually quiet old. In fairness to the Chinese they don't seem to mind, so the system works for them. I have been disappointed several times however)

Think you would find a lens that doesn't take filters a problem as you will really need ND grads to get the best from an image, or bracketing, also a TSE 24mm or 17 as suggested may be a better panoramic view as you would loose a lot from a 14mm crop. Depends on time really. I like the view from the Yulong Bridge, which is great, depending on the light. Haven't experienced much in the way of visibility issues other than rain, the mist adds drama to the kunst mountains, so long as you are prepared for it. Polarisers help a lot with keeping the foliage natural, and reducing reflections in the water, not really seen much in the way of sun in the area.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 6, 2013)

Thanks CaiLeDao


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## lion rock (Aug 7, 2013)

Dylan,
My wife says it is a one day tour, once a week. I think the tour departs by boat on HK side. I found a bit more listing here: http://www.geopark.gov.hk/en_s4f5.htm . I hope you have sometime to visit.
-r


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## Dylan777 (Aug 7, 2013)

lion rock said:


> Dylan,
> My wife says it is a one day tour, once a week. I think the tour departs by boat on HK side. I found a bit more listing here: http://www.geopark.gov.hk/en_s4f5.htm . I hope you have sometime to visit.
> -r



It looks like ferry(boat) is the only way to get there. I'll keep that in mind. Thanks again.


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## kaihp (Aug 7, 2013)

lion rock said:


> Dylan,
> Hope you will have a great trip to HK/China.
> My experience with tours in China is that if you join a tour group, a fair part of the time would be spent on shopping. I went to two of these tours and they hurry you up so they can take you to shops.
> My friend and his family went for a trip and hired a "private" car with an English speaking driver/tour guide thinking that there would be no shopping. It still did, but finally my friend insisted that they did no more shopping. The attitude of the driver changed to one that was indifferent to my friend and his family.
> I would not know how the tour guides would treat a Westerner, but being Chinese tourists, we're not treated well in this respect.



Westerners would be treated the same, at least to what I see in the Lonely Planet guide (I haven't been sightseeing in China with guides).
The guides are paid commission by the shops. And the shop will claim that whatever you bought at another shop is fake, but _their_ shop has the real goods. Ad infinitum.


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## Grumbaki (Aug 7, 2013)

I used to hire English major master student from a local university when my chinese was even worse than it's now. Even if you add a private car, it won't be super expensive and the experience will be much better. Unrushed, non standard but good facts, tips on real local joints.

My tip would be either that or no guide. Group tour in china are aweful.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 7, 2013)

Grumbaki said:


> I used to hire English major master student from a local university when my chinese was even worse than it's now. Even if you add a private car, it won't be super expensive and the experience will be much better. Unrushed, non standard but good facts, tips on real local joints.
> 
> My tip would be either that or no guide. Group tour in china are aweful.



I been travel from US to China last 10yrs. I still can't pickup the chinese language. All I know is "Ni-hao" = hello and "sei-sie" = thank you.


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## Grumbaki (Aug 7, 2013)

Dylan777 said:


> I been travel from US to China last 10yrs. I still can't pickup the chinese language. All I know is "Ni-hao" = hello and "sei-sie" = thank you.



Well I don't know Yangshuo but a lot of sites are now accessible to unguided non chinese speaking foreigners. I wouldn't be afraid to let english only speaking friends visit Beijing or Shanghai by themselves. 10 years back it was a different matter.

In less common places (like my current residence Chengdu), the major things (like the panda base) are close to english friendly but the life isn't.


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## kaihp (Aug 7, 2013)

Dylan777 said:


> I been travel from US to China last 10yrs. I still can't pickup the chinese language. All I know is "Ni-hao" = hello and "sei-sie" = thank you.



Those were my first two things I learned in Chinese (Mandarin). Third was "hao gao" (so tall!), since I'm 6'6". Didn't need to go to school to learn that.

You should learn to say "ting bu dong" (I don't understand), it's the classic laowai (foreigner) response here.

Grumbaki's idea about an English major is excellent ... if they can speak an understandable English. I had to turn down 4 out of 6 English Majors as candidates for a secretary, due to poor English skills. 

/PS: The official pinyin is xie-xie, as X is pronounced as an S in English.


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## DJL329 (Aug 7, 2013)

Dylan,

Since you have a few weeks, I'd suggest renting the 14mm now, if possible, to see if 'works' for you. If you don't have a large subject, it can make things look very small. Holding it level, things look fairly normal; tilt it to get some interesting effects.

A couple of shots I did right after buying the original 14L.











Like using a fisheye, remember to watch your feet. Oh, and don't go walking around with it while looking through the viewfinder or you will bump into things! (Yes, voice of experience. :-[)

Good luck and happy shooting!

-- Dan


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## Dylan777 (Aug 7, 2013)

DJL329 said:


> Dylan,
> 
> Since you have a few weeks, I'd suggest renting the 14mm now, if possible, to see if 'works' for you. If you don't have a large subject, it can make things look very small. Holding it level, things look fairly normal; tilt it to get some interesting effects.
> 
> ...



Thanks Dan.

I might take your advices, rent it for couple days. I did have a chance to play with Nikon 14-24 + D800 through a friend. I love the effects of UWA lens, esp @ 14mm.


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## tron (Aug 7, 2013)

So, to sum up, do you intend to get:

2 x 5D3 bodies
14mm 2.8L II
24-70 2.8L II
70-200 2.8L IS II

I think it is a very good combination.

Just some thoughts/suggestions:

I would swap the 14 II with TS-E 17 L if I knew that I would be able to shoot interesting buildings.
Also, I would get a 70-200 4L IS instead of 2.8 to lower the weight. But then I do have both lenses so I can chose.
(So the last one is more a though rather than suggestion).


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## Dylan777 (Aug 8, 2013)

tron said:


> So, to sum up, do you intend to get:
> 
> 2 x 5D3 bodies
> 14mm 2.8L II
> ...



Thanks tron.

I hate spending money on renting lenses.

I'll rent either 14mm II or 16-35 II as UWA lens. My co-workers and I plan to see a light show in the evening. Therefore, my 24-70 II + 70-200 f2.8 IS II will become handy. I as a prev owner of 16-35 II, I know this lens doesn't perform well at f2.8. It more likely be used at f11 to f16 during the day. 

I went through some review sites, some claimed 14mm f2.8 II is sharp at f2.8. I was hoping to get more feedbacks from CR members about 14mm II. I guess not many of us shooting with 14mm II :-\

For now, I'm more leaning to 16-35 II - since still have BW CPL filter.

First body: 5D III + 16-35 II - for all landscape shots
Second body: 5D III + 70-200 f2.8 IS II - people, close-up shots

For night time. I'll swap the 16-35 II to 24-70 II.


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## Random Orbits (Aug 8, 2013)

Sounds like the 16-35 II is the right choice for you. The problem with the 14 is that most people would opt for another lens to fill the 15-23mm gap, so that's two lenses plus the 24-70 to cover the UWA range. Are the 14L and TS-E 17 better IQ-wise. Yes, but you lose a lot of versatility and time to gain a wider FOV and TS capability, and I don't think that trade is worth it for a short trip. If you lived there or had enough time to get the perfect shots, then yes, those lenses would give better "wow" results. For real estate and architecture, those ultrawide primes come into their own, although even then the 14L is not wide enough and I find myself pulling out the fisheye and defishing it.


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## dmcb (Aug 8, 2013)

Dylan777 said:


> I went through some review sites, some claimed 14mm f2.8 II is sharp at f2.8. I was hoping to get more feedbacks from CR members about 14mm II. I guess not many of us shooting with 14mm II :-\



I shoot with the 14mm f2.8 II. I was able to trade my 16-35mm for the 14mm and it was the best decision I ever made. I hated the performance of the 16-35mm. In the sides it was soft at seemingly any aperture (and it was an unpleasant softness that I can't really describe). The 14mm is very sharp at 2.8, in contrast with the 16-35, it's near perfect. There's vignetting, but it's very manageable and I have no issues with it. Some CA can come out quite strongly at the widest apertures depending on the lighting in the shot.

These images aren't at 2.8, but at these same apertures on the 16-35mm I would notice flawed sides.

http://500px.com/photo/27948633
http://500px.com/photo/26623705
http://500px.com/photo/39501850


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## magical (Aug 8, 2013)

Random Orbits said:


> I like the 14mm II and TS-E 17 better than the 16-35 II, but the 16-35 II is hard to beat for travel like this. The 14 II is prone to CAs and does not take filters, but it has better IQ than the 16-35 II, is wider and is more compact. Unless you plan on using the 16-35 II at 16mm exclusively, I wouldn't consider the 14mm prime. And the 14mm feels a lot wider in usage than the 2mm difference from the 16-35 II may indicate.
> 
> If I had the choice and had sufficient time, then I'd consider the TS-E 17 over the 16-35 II. The shift will help for architecture/landscape shots, and it can help get you some nice panoramas. But it is MF only. In this case, the 24-70 would be the primary, and the TS-E 17 would be for the special shots. If you're going to be crunched for time, then the 16-35 II offers good IQ but is much more versatile.



14mm II does take ND filters in the rear gel holder.


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## moreorless (Aug 8, 2013)

I'd guess the hiking spot that's being mentioned is Moon Hill that had a natural arch at the top, certainly worth visiting and not hard to access.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moon_Hill

As far as lenses go the 14mm would obviously have some uses but really I think you might find that a bit too wide to emphasize the hills, the 16-35mm seems a much better bet for me and would be the first lens I'd pack for landscapes in that location.

As for what else to take I'd say that depends on what you like to shoot, if you want to take shots from the river cruise for example picking out locals then the 70-200mm would be the better bet, might be useful for some landscapes as well although as has been said mist and smog can often be issues.

The 24-70mm would cover you in the mid range and if you were visiting smaller villages might be a good bet.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 8, 2013)

dmcb said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > I went through some review sites, some claimed 14mm f2.8 II is sharp at f2.8. I was hoping to get more feedbacks from CR members about 14mm II. I guess not many of us shooting with 14mm II :-\
> ...



Thanks dmcb for inside info.

Love the 2nd pix. I did have a chance to shoot with Nikon 14-24 with D800 through a friend. I like the 14mm effects a alot.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 8, 2013)

Thanks moreorless


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## hrjoe (Aug 8, 2013)

I will go there myself with a photo hunting tour from jakarta, indonesia.
The trip is on 9 to 15 October 2013.
http://wisatafotografi.net/jadwal-wisata-fotografi/guilin-9-oktober-2013/
If you're interested to join, please contact the organizer at [email protected]
We all can communicate in english for sure.

My gear is about the same as yours.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 8, 2013)

hrjoe said:


> I will go there myself with a photo hunting tour from jakarta, indonesia.
> The trip is on 9 to 15 October 2013.
> http://wisatafotografi.net/jadwal-wisata-fotografi/guilin-9-oktober-2013/
> If you're interested to join, please contact the organizer at [email protected]
> ...



Thanks hrjoe for the invi. Sounds fun 

We are waiting for our contract manufacture to confirm the product build date. We hoping 2nd week of Sep. It's a moving target, therefore, I can't commit to your offer Sep 9th to 15th at this time.

I saved the email address for ref.


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## kaihp (Aug 9, 2013)

A general note about traveling in China: do not travel in China during the Mid-Autumn festival (first week of October) nor Chinese new-Year (changes with the lunar calendar).

Why? -  too many people.


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## Grumbaki (Aug 9, 2013)

kaihp said:


> A general note about traveling in China: do not travel in China during the Mid-Autumn festival (first week of October) nor Chinese new-Year (changes with the lunar calendar).
> 
> Why? -  too many people.



You can add Workers day (1st of may +3 to 5 days) and various smaller holidays to that trend (like dragon boats days mid june).

Anyway Dylan, if you ever come over to Chengdu, drop a line.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 9, 2013)

kaihp said:


> A general note about traveling in China: do not travel in China during the Mid-Autumn festival (first week of October) nor Chinese new-Year (changes with the lunar calendar).
> 
> Why? -  too many people.



Thanks kaihp

Last 10yrs, I travel to China 3-5 times a year. I'm well aware of Chinese holidays. That's why we hoping to get the build schedule beginning of 2nd week of Sep.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 9, 2013)

Grumbaki said:


> Anyway Dylan, if you ever come over to Chengdu, drop a line.



Thanks Grumbaki


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## hrjoe (Aug 10, 2013)

Dylan777 said:


> Thanks kaihp
> 
> Last 10yrs, I travel to China 3-5 times a year. I'm well aware of Chinese holidays. That's why we hoping to get the build schedule beginning of 2nd week of Sep.


This year, the mid-autumn festival takes place from September 19th to 21th.
--> Chinese Mid-Autumn Festival Dates


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