# Another one of those 5D Mark III soft images threads.



## Kenro (Apr 9, 2013)

Please move this topic if it belongs somewhere else. 

I am a professional photographer based in Australia, who recently upgraded from the 5D Mark II to the mark III, mainly for the autofocusing speed abilities. I also have a 60D in my kit, which works well for sports but some shoots demand the full frame sensor. Most of my clients are big publications, and I have had some bad feedback about "soft" images since upgrading to the MarkIII, which is a huge problem considering this is my main income source (and have magazines relying on shots for DPS', posters and covers). On investigation, I have noticed the 5d Mark III images looks fine zoomed out, but when cropped in 100% are noticeably soft, softer than that of the MarkII (and in some cases, the 60D!). 
I have tried extensive image sharpening, but can never get that "tack sharp" photo that I could get with the mark II. 
Im shooting in RAW, and process in lightroom. I tried bumping the picture profile sharpness up in-camera which helped a little but still no visible sharp focus point. I have spent alot of time on the autofocus micro adjustment, and thought I had it spot on, but compared to the Mark ii - it still sucked. 

Can anyone tell me if its just me suffering from these problems? There seems to be a few on the web, but I would really like to rectify this problem rather than selling the 5d3 and buying a 7D until canon release a good affordable fast full-frame camera. 

Any ideas would be greatly appreciated!


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 9, 2013)

Kenro said:


> I have spent alot of time on the autofocus micro adjustment, and thought I had it spot on, but compared to the Mark ii - it still sucked.



Spent time how? Have you compared phase detect AF to live view AF to 10x manual focusing in live view? If live you gets you sharper images then phase detect, then AF adjustment is most likely the problem. If the images are equally soft with all focusing methods, I'd suggest contacting Canon.


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## spinworkxroy (Apr 9, 2013)

Any photos to share for comparisons? It's quite hard to "imagine" your issue without an actual photo to see for ourselves.
Is it the lens? 
I've not had any issues with my 5D3 but i've also read of others with soft issues getting their cameras replaced with a better copy… to me, i think it's all down to the lens you use and correct AFMA. (I use Reikan for mine)
However, i do agree that when taking the same picture and really zooming in to crop, the 5d3 is no match for the D800 or the Sony A99..as much as possible i try not to crop too much.
I'm using the 24-70II and Sigma 85F1.4 most of the time for all my portrait works and i never had to complain about not sharp images.


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## rpt (Apr 9, 2013)

How did you AFMA? FoCal or other method? May be a stupid question considering you are a professional - was the lighting inadequate?

The top reasons my AFMA failed (in no particular order) were:

Center column was raised and it was a bit wobbly
Lighting was inadequate
Lighting done with CFL bulbs

I use FoCal and the need to manually change the AFMA values can sometimes be tricky.

If it is none of the above and you think the camera was *very* stable, may be you need to talk to Canon. People on this forum have been very happy with Canon service in Australia. There was a thread on it a few days back...


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## Mehmetski (Apr 10, 2013)

Check your in camera noise reduction levels. On the 5d3 this is a little stronger than the 5d2 and this can result in softer images, especially shots above ISO 1600


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## Nishi Drew (Apr 10, 2013)

Maybe shoot at F8 more, instead of F1.4


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## East Wind Photography (Apr 10, 2013)

Increasing MP can lead you to believe you are losing "sharpness". First off try downsizing the 23MP RAW file to the 5D resolution and see if your image "sharpens" up. Adding more pixels increases the resolution capability of the camera which quite frankly can out resolve many lenses.

2nd, lets not confuse sharpness with resolution. Sharpness is based on light levels and contrast levels between two adjacent shades or colors. More light means more sharpness.

Resolution is based on number of pixels/mm and what fine detail can be recorded with a particular lens and camera combo. Both are important but are not related directly.

Generally with the 5DIII or any other camera to get tack "sharp" images, you have to have strong lighting, good exposure.

Next you can compare lenses and IQ using a tool such as the following.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=745&Camera=453&Sample=0&FLI=1&API=0&LensComp=748&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 10, 2013)

Careful testing at DXO shows that with the same lens, the 5D MK III has 15% better resolution than the 5D MK II. Thats quite a bit for a tiny number of additional pixels.

Its hard to know why you are seeing this, but somewhere along the line, something is wrong.
As Neuro said, live autofocus is done by contrast detection and should be near perfect. Reikan Focal has a focus algorithm that will focus your camera better than liveview, and can be used to check images as well.


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## Don Haines (Apr 10, 2013)

What lens are you using? Is that lens sharp on other cameras?

If you set up on a tripod and manually focus with live view, zoomed in, can you get a sharp image?


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## East Wind Photography (Apr 10, 2013)

But it doesnt work with the 5DIII (reikan af algorythm).



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Careful testing at DXO shows that with the same lens, the 5D MK III has 15% better resolution than the 5D MK II. Thats quite a bit for a tiny number of additional pixels.
> 
> Its hard to know why you are seeing this, but somewhere along the line, something is wrong.
> As Neuro said, live autofocus is done by contrast detection and should be near perfect. Reikan Focal has a focus algorithm that will focus your camera better than liveview, and can be used to check images as well.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 10, 2013)

East Wind Photography said:


> But it doesnt work with the 5DIII (reikan af algorythm).


 
Works just fine with my 5D MK III!


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## East Wind Photography (Apr 10, 2013)

Crazy. Every time I tried it the program would crash and I would have to manually restore my settings. Maybe I'll uninstall it, reboot, and re-install again.



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> East Wind Photography said:
> 
> 
> > But it doesnt work with the 5DIII (reikan af algorythm).
> ...


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## Viggo (Apr 10, 2013)

I'll cut to the chase here. I think your camera and afma is fine, the 5d3 IS softer than the 5d2. If it is ONLY the AA-filter that makes it so soft your customer notices I'm not sure about. However, if your clients uses their own designers and editors to work the picture before a release of a magazine for example, I can easily see that they would notice.

This issue was pointed out two days after the 5d3 hit the shelves, and people screamed bloody murder about it being soft, and now suddenly everybody loves it.

I had the 5d2 and 1d4, and upgraded to the 5d3 and I absolutley loved everything except the image quality. And a bit higher iso's it's much cleaner than the 5d2, but use a bit of fill flash at iso 100 and the 5d2 files are sharper. It annoyed me to the point where I tried the 1dX more seriously to see if it was any better, and I sold the 5d3 as soon as I got hold of a 1dX. It's that big of an issue for me, and clearly others, including a couple of friends of mine who didn't know about this until they had tried the 5d3 for a couple a weeks and they came to me asking about it.


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## Viggo (Apr 10, 2013)

East Wind Photography said:


> Crazy. Every time I tried it the program would crash and I would have to manually restore my settings. Maybe I'll uninstall it, reboot, and re-install again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## East Wind Photography (Apr 10, 2013)

Yep I'm using the new version already.



Viggo said:


> East Wind Photography said:
> 
> 
> > Crazy. Every time I tried it the program would crash and I would have to manually restore my settings. Maybe I'll uninstall it, reboot, and re-install again.
> ...


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## ishdakuteb (Apr 10, 2013)

put up one or two of your soft raw files... i think people in this forum might help you to see where is the problem coming from...


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 10, 2013)

East Wind Photography said:


> Yep I'm using the new version already.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I should elaborate, I have it installed on two computers, and find the function crashes frequently on one I seldom use, but works fine on my laptop which is what I normally use. Both are windows 7 64 bit OS with 4GB memory. I've never bothered to find out why. The one it crashes on is a older Dell, but upgraded with a SSD.


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## RealPerson (Sep 16, 2013)

I know this is an Old thread, but I am now having this issue.

Here is what I have found.

It seems to only be in sunlight or with the hot shoe flash.

I have ran 400 ss so I know it isn't motion blur.

I can take the camera into the studio and get AMAZING photos... 

Only other thing I have noticed is the DOF seems so shallow compared to other Canon cameras.
I can be at a 7.1 or even 9 f-stop and from a persons nose to ear can start to be out of focus...
Or in sports a player carrying a football the ball is in focus while the face is so soft.

I check settings from old photos and I was even running lower F-stops with more DOF with the 1Ds mark II and 1D Mark II

Anyway, I hope Canon or someone can continue to figure out this problem as it would come and go, but now it is HERE and wont go away for my Camera. I guess I will call Canon in the morning and see what they have to say....


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## Skulker (Sep 16, 2013)

Is it just me? 

Why do so many people start a thread like this with their first post, then respond once or twice if at all. They don't give examples so we can't see the problem, they often claim to be professionals making a good living.

Now we have the thread revived by a real person with the same profile. ;D

So realperson, my first question is can we see a sample please.


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## wickidwombat (Sep 16, 2013)

Kenro said:


> Please move this topic if it belongs somewhere else.
> 
> I am a professional photographer based in Australia, who recently upgraded from the 5D Mark II to the mark III, mainly for the autofocusing speed abilities. I also have a 60D in my kit, which works well for sports but some shoots demand the full frame sensor. Most of my clients are big publications, and I have had some bad feedback about "soft" images since upgrading to the MarkIII, which is a huge problem considering this is my main income source (and have magazines relying on shots for DPS', posters and covers). On investigation, I have noticed the 5d Mark III images looks fine zoomed out, but when cropped in 100% are noticeably soft, softer than that of the MarkII (and in some cases, the 60D!).
> I have tried extensive image sharpening, but can never get that "tack sharp" photo that I could get with the mark II.
> ...



My first mk3 had this problem it was a faulty AF unit i returned it within a week and got a new camera which was razor sharp out of the box, and a second mk3 was also perfectly sharp although it had a problem with the lens mount connection dropping AF on lenses at wierd and inconvenient times that went back to canon and got a new lens mount.

your problem sounds like my first copy i'd say get it exchanged if its still pretty new


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## Lichtgestalt (Sep 16, 2013)

Skulker said:


> Is it just me?
> 
> Why do so many people start a thread like this with their first post, then respond once or twice if at all. They don't give examples so we can't see the problem, they often claim to be professionals making a good living.
> 
> ...



+1 

could not have said it better!!


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 16, 2013)

RealPerson said:


> I know this is an Old thread, but I am now having this issue.
> 
> Here is what I have found.
> 
> ...


 
It is a basic fact of photography that larger sensors achieve a shallow depth of field.

Some like the deep depth of field that they had with their tiny sensor in a point and shoot, and just plain hate the shallow depth of field in a FF DSLR. That's ok, but the only answer is to go back to the point and shoot, or use very small apertures.
You also need to understand that distance to subject has a huge effect on depth of field, so if you get up close, depth of field is shallow. Combine the two, large sensor and close distance to subject, and the shallow depth of field can be wonderful, or awful depending on what is needed for the image.

If you want more depth of field for a portrait, use 85mm - 200mm, some even use 300mm. Don't use 35mm and compensate by getting close.

Here is a image at 35mm at near mfd. I like the effect, but maybe not for a portrait.







On the other hand, here is a portrait of my son with a 135mm Lens at f/2.5. No problem with depth of field. Its a matter of lens selection to get the effect you want. The subject is standing away from the background so it will blur.


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