# How soon should Canon update the 7D Mark II



## RGF (Jul 3, 2016)

The Nikon D500 is a great camera topping the 7D M2 in many ways.
The Canon 80D is also a great camera, again topping the 7D M2 in many ways.

Are these competitors sufficient to justify Canon accelerating the development cycle of the next 7D model (7D Mark III?)

Should Canon have its top of the line crop camera launched about the same time as the top of line full frame camera (i.e., 1Dx M2)

Love to share thoughts on this.

My observation (from afar) is that Nikon does a much better job taking the goodies from their FF top of the line camera and making it available in their APS top of the line camera. Canon does not do this well.

Wish Canon did this better.


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## Orangutan (Jul 3, 2016)

RGF said:


> My observation (from afar) is that Nikon does a much better job taking the goodies from their FF top of the line camera and making it available in their APS top of the line camera. *Canon does not do this well*.



I think they do this as well as they want to do. Canon has no trouble selling APS-C DSLRs, so there's no business reason to incorporate higher-end features. It would be nice for me if they did (I may buy a 7D3), but I don't think it's an issue of doing it well -- they probably just choose not to do so.

On the other hand, Nikon is under considerable market pressure, and probably feels compelled to make their cameras as attractive as they can on the spec sheets.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 3, 2016)

It will be updated according to the long established pattern for higher level models, about every 4 or more years. The tiny differences between various brands and models are pretty irrelevant.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Jul 4, 2016)

I do not think Canon designed the huge time gap between the original 7D and 7D Mark II. The famous (and hated by many) 18 megapixel APS-C sensor was reused in many different cameras, because the new technology was delayed because of the earthquake in Japan.

So I believe, without any major earthquake, the 7D Marl iii will be launched with a 3-year interval.


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## Orangutan (Jul 4, 2016)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> I do not think Canon designed the huge time gap between the original 7D and 7D Mark II. The famous (and hated by many) 18 megapixel APS-C sensor was reused in many different cameras, because the new technology was delayed because of the earthquake in Japan.
> 
> So I believe, without any major earthquake, the 7D Marl iii will be launched with a 3-year interval.



I think the delay was influenced more by the lack of an APS-C competitor from Nikon than it was by the earthquake.


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## 9VIII (Jul 4, 2016)

Canon could pump out a quick update that would be mostly worthwhile, but I would probably still feel like the product as a whole is somewhat lacking.

The 7D2 as we have it today is actually somewhat gimped because it doesn't have wi-fi or a touchscreen. Canon could just shove that and their new chip in it, but that would probably still feel half-baked to a lot of people.

The market as a whole is still waiting for solid 4K recording in a consumer level device, everything out there today has downsides of some sort, all Canon has to do is get one really good implementation of 4K recording on one of their cameras and it will be a hit. Of course the 7D3 would be the natural choice.

I'm also not convinced that they're getting as much performance out of the new chips as they should, it'll probably be a few more years before we see any significant gains out of it. The 80D basically gets you the same IQ as before, with a little extra low ISO DR, pretty underwhelming.
We've seen that Sony and Nikon can get cleaner images out of this sort of tech, I have to assume Canon will improve IQ in the next few years. They should wait until the second or third generation of this sensor before putting one in the 7D.
Put another way, I'm not confident that they can match the D500 right now, it'll take a year or two to accomplish that.

Nikon's bluetooth connection app sounds fantastic, I would love to see something similar. As has been discussed many times, Canon needs to make a seamless process to get pictures off the camera and onto your machine of choice.


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## Otara (Jul 4, 2016)

RGF said:


> The Nikon D500 is a great camera topping the 7D M2 in many ways.
> The Canon 80D is also a great camera, again topping the 7D M2 in many ways.
> 
> My observation (from afar) is that Nikon does a much better job taking the goodies from their FF top of the line camera and making it available in their APS top of the line camera. Canon does not do this well.
> ...



They took how many years to release the d500 after the d300s? 

Updateswise the main thing Nikon did was offer a better sensor until now. In general, the 7D II had a ton of features you couldnt get close to with a recent Nikon APS-C as a package. It also had some rather nifty things you couldnt even get in top of the line Canons.

The 80D is great value for money and I have one, but again its main advantage is sensor and a tilt screen.

I want a 7D III yesterday, but this isnt a good argument for it. 

Edit they already have NFC instead of bluetooth in the 80D. Works beautifully.


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## Don Haines (Jul 4, 2016)

I am happy to wait out the 4 or 5 year cycle. That way, it should be enough of an improvement to justify getting it.


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## K (Jul 4, 2016)

7D3 will probably come in about 2 years. The 5D4 and 6D2 and possible new model comes first.

The 7D was surpassed in several ways by other cameras in its day. It lingered on and on without update. Could be for many reasons. Part of it was no competition from Nikon and an industry speculation that high-end flagship crop camera was a dead concept. Especially with all the focus being on more affordable, lower level full frames being released for several years.

Another reason why an update will take a long time is because few people are going to jump systems for a flagship crop. There's the security and safety of knowing there won't be too many defectors because of investment in glass. Both manufacturers rely on this quite a bit.


From a practical perspective - there's no real difference between it and the D500 and several other cameras. The quality the 7D2 puts out will be superb for many years to come. 

However, from a tech point of view - and for those who place big emphasis on each advancement - yes, the 7D2's sensor is a major weak point.

The D7200, 80D, D500 all have superior crop sensors. The 80D of course being the same brand but lower tier 
camera. The D500 being a direct competitor on specs. 
*
The 7D2 is a world-class camera with a mediocre sensor.*

A 7D3 doesn't need a whole lot other than the newer sensor tech with on-chip ADC for better dynamic range. 

Only if they can keep the 10fps, it would be nice to see a jump up to 22mp with no AA filter. More rez and no AA would be very welcome for this type of camera. Wildlife and sports shooters are not too concerned about, nor run into moire that much. 


Keep the rest of the camera mostly the same. Maybe a slight size reduction while keeping the same build quality and weather sealing. That would be a hot camera. Canon wouldn't even need any tilt screens, touch screens or any of that. 


Nikon's D500 with their new budget super zoom is a formidable combo. Again, I don't think there will be any major defections or whatnot. Except for those people who are hard-core wildlife or bird shooters that are basically owners of one camera body and one long lens and nothing else. Example, 7D2 with the 400mm 5.6. If that's all one has, they aren't heavily committed to a particular system. And if they are serious enthusiasts of that kind of photography - it may be worth it for them to switch systems and some absolutely will. But these are a small, small percentage of the buyers out there. Probably more Nikon shooters dumped Nikon and moved to Canon for Nikon's lack of a serious flagship crop for so many years than Canon owners going to switch to Nikon. 

The defectors migrating to Canon had to, as they just didn't have a body that could do what they needed. It just didn't exist in their platform. Whereas, Canon owners have great glass and while their camera body is a little behind to a just released new model, it is is good enough. There's little to no necessity for switching. It would be only for trying to take advantage of what in the bigger picture are, minor advantages.


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## Aldec9 (Jul 4, 2016)

The Canon 7D MK I served a 6 years life span in which obviously sensor technology and video recording move one quite fast but that didn't hurry Canon to release the MK II.

Other than perhaps 4K video recording , what else for a Pro APS-C DSLR do you expect Canon to bring that Nikon masters nowadays so well ?


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## Don Haines (Jul 4, 2016)

Only time will tell for what is going to happen, but as someone who makes their living in R+D, I can pretty well assure you that the target release date is already set and that most of the hardware is already set. By this point, the big push is on software and then once the hardware samples come rolling in, integration. Odds are that the production contracts for the various chips, modules, and assemblies are already in place. It is very doubtful that they would be able to speed up their schedule as software almost always takes longer than estimated and throwing more people on a problem quite often slows development down.... and there WILL!!!! be bugs found in the integration and testing phase......


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## abcd1234 (Jul 4, 2016)

Canon does not need to hurry the development of a new 7D up, certainly not because of the Nikon D500.
Even when Nikon's cameras look better on sheets, history consistently proves that Canon's counterparts are far better and reliable in the end.
Canon DSLRs are polished and refined tools for photography. Everything about their cameras just come together. They deliver. And that's why pros and serious photographers use Canon.
Nikons are more like toys for amateur and casual people. And the D500 certainly looks like a toy. Remind me of the design of the RC cars I used to play with when I was 8 or 9.
And do I need to remind you that there's a embarrassing "made in Thailand" underneath the Nikon?


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## unfocused (Jul 4, 2016)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> ...The tiny differences between various brands and models are pretty irrelevant.





abcd1234 said:


> Canon does not need to hurry the development of a new 7D up, certainly not because of the Nikon D500.
> Even when Nikon's cameras look better on sheets, history consistently proves that Canon's counterparts are far better and reliable in the end.
> Canon DSLRs are polished and refined tools for photography. Everything about their cameras just come together. They deliver. And that's why pros and serious photographers use Canon.



These are the most correct statements on this thread. 

In real world use, the 7DII is very competitive against any camera on the market. The 7DII sensor is seriously good. I shoot with both the 7DII and now the 1DX II and while the 1DX II (which is now been identified as the class leading sensor for full frame cameras) is slightly better (about 1 stop at higher ISOs) the 7DII is still very competitive. Up to ISO 3200, with proper exposure and processing, the 7DII can hold its own against even the 1DX II. 



RGF said:


> ...My observation *(from afar)* is that Nikon does a much better job taking the goodies from their FF top of the line camera and making it available in their APS top of the line camera...



Obviously you are too far away. Canon pretty much took everything of significance from the 1DX and put it into the 7DII and they did it nearly two years *before* Nikon, which sat on the D300 for 6 1/2 years (and the truth is the D300 was a dinosaur when it was released in comparison to the original 7D).



K said:


> * The 7D2 is a world-class camera with a mediocre sensor.*



Have you used the 7DII? I would hardly call the 7DII sensor "mediocre."



dilbert said:


> I think it is pretty clear that Nikon had a D400 planned but scrapped it...



Let's see some evidence of that. You are just pulling stuff out of thin air (or perhaps out of some waste-eliminating orifice in your body.) By all accounts, most industry experts believed Nikon had abandoned the APS-C professional market. It's much more plausible that they only decided to return to the market after they saw Canon's success with the 7DII and realized that in the stagnant DSLR market, they needed to play in this niche.

While the D500 offers some slight improvements over the 7DII, that's unsurprising given that it was announced 1 1/2 years after the 7DII. 

I expect that with Nikon now re-entering this market, Canon will return the 7DII to a more normal refresh cycle and may even shorten it slightly. With Canon now once again offering the industry-leading sensor, they may want to get an APS-C version into the 7D series sooner, rather than later. If the 6DII comes sometime in the first quarter of 2017, I would expect Canon could announce a 7DIII around Sept. 2017 – a three-year refresh.


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## Orangutan (Jul 4, 2016)

dilbert said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Prototypes and test units are likely in constant cycle to exercise the new components as they evolve. It's possible, even plausible, that there was a D400 planned, but that doesn't mean much. Unless they had already tooled-up to manufacture and market the D400 you can't really assert that there was definitely a D400 that was scrapped.


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## Sabaki (Jul 4, 2016)

I'm less interested in when they upgrade the 7Dii and more interested in what they will incorporate.

Like Don Haines said, let the upgrade happen when it does and let the technology warrants the update.

From my personal experience, the 7Dii is an overall success but a failure on smaller levels. Poor copy variance, overstated performance and perhaps not the architecture to back up the desired delivery.

What I want more than anything else in a 7Dii:
* BIG battery to drive the lenses faster and just plain old better
* Dedicated chipset for ITR, ala the 1DX

Charge me $2500 for what I ask for above but give me a camera that delivers what the expectation is.


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## AdamBotond (Jul 4, 2016)

Like many of you guys, I'm expecting the 7D successor to be released around late 2017 or so.
There are few things that make refressing the 7D series legimit:
1. Canon has improved in sensor tech over the last 2 years. Some nice touches (touch screen, etc) has showed up, as well.
2. The notorious soft image and AF inconsistency problems, variable copies. Canon has never addressed the issue, and most likely never will, but there are more than a few people with their 7D IIs suffering from those symptoms, they are all over the forums. I think that MANY are discouraged by those issues, including myself. When you are photographing action whether it is wildlife, sport or anything else, you cannot afford a camera that is not reliable. I would be a happy 7D III buyer, as long as Canon can get rid of those issues.


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## Otara (Jul 4, 2016)

My point perhaps wasnt well stated. The gap between both the D300 and the 7D/2 is large enough that clearly they're doing updates when they think it has marketting value. Neither company seems to have been urgently competing with the others models in this area, nor rushing to keep it updated vs its previous model.

Which makes any release predictions of little value in my opinion. While the 80D has some DR improvement, its of little use for the 7D2 given it vanishes after 200 ISO. Nor are the claimed copy variance/softness/AF rumours likely to be the big deal that people on forums like to think it is as a marketting issue that needs to be fixed with a new model. 

So far they've tried to build on everything from the previous model- af, memory, DIGIC, sensor, FPS, video. Nothing to do with the kinds of negative issues discussed above.


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## Sabaki (Jul 4, 2016)

[[/quote]

A test unit comes very late in the piece - that's what is shipped off to "the select few." At that point it is a done deal.

Prototypes are produced in accordance with a plan to deliver a real product. These are companies that are looking to make profitable products, not just invent something random. For DSLRs, those plans span multiple years.



> These test units are calibrated by a master technician, which standard production models aren't. I'm not quite sure why a master tech is qualified as such or if he has access to higher precision calibration software and machines, but for me, production line models just cannot compare.


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## Orangutan (Jul 4, 2016)

dilbert said:


> A test unit comes very late in the piece - that's what is shipped off to "the select few." At that point it is a done deal.



I think we're using our terminology differently: when a new component is developed it's probably first bench-tested. Then it's put in whatever current body will accept it to see how it does in the real-world. To me that's a test unit. A prototype, to me, is a test unit that is mostly new components, and uses existing components only where new components are not yet available. The "select few" would receive prototypes, not early test units. Maybe this industry has different terminology. My basic point is that R&D occurs continuously, so you can't really say that the next gen product was cancelled unless significant movement toward production had occurred.


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## Don Haines (Jul 4, 2016)

dilbert said:


> A test unit comes very late in the piece - that's what is shipped off to "the select few." At that point it is a done deal.



A test unit is very early in the cycle. It usually consists of a bunch of un-mounted assemblies spread out on a workbench, hooked up to test equipment, and bears little resemblance to a camera.

Once the operation of the components is verified, it gets packaged into a prototype and now looks like a camera.

The prototype is field tested, usually with an OS that is logging performance data, and any problems found are either debugged on the prototype or if hardware related, on the test unit.

Once the prototype is stable enough, production orders are placed.

Then demo units are produced and given to given to select users to further debug, addressing any flaws found along the way.

Then the camera is released.


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## Don Haines (Jul 4, 2016)

dilbert said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...


You are right about the teams. I was told that each "line" has multiple teams (concept, hardware design, early integration, bench testing, software, etc) and before a product is released, they have already put in at least a year or two on it's successor. In other words, once the hardware design people finished their design on the 7D2, they would start working on the 7D3 hardware design, despite the 7D2 still being a couple years from release.....


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## Orangutan (Jul 4, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> You are right about the teams. I was told that each "line" has multiple teams (concept, hardware design, early integration, bench testing, software, etc) and before a product is released, they have already put in at least a year or two on it's successor. In other words, once the hardware design people finished their design on the 7D2, they would start working on the 7D3 hardware design, despite the 7D2 still being a couple years from release.....



It would not surprise me if there are integration teams, but I'd be amazed if there are separate sensor development teams, separate firmware coding teams, etc.


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## Don Haines (Jul 4, 2016)

dilbert said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...


definitely a library of code.... When the 7D2 came out with anti-flicker, every Canon DSLR afterwards had the feature.... undoubtedly a standard block of code to be inserted.....

As well, various techs/engineers will have their specialty. For example, they might have one or two people who are the shutter gurus....and they might work on multiple projects. Very different work from the user interface people....

It is probably a matrix of teams and projects, with each team doing their thing on the appropriate project at the appropriate time...


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## Orangutan (Jul 4, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > Orangutan said:
> ...


But there would not be a 7D3 team that does everything for that particular model.


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## tomscott (Jul 4, 2016)

The 7D MKII gets a lot of bad rep by a lot of people that don't use them. I have taken mine along with a 5DMkIII half way round the world shooting in some of the most inhospitable places on earth.

I love the camera it performs and performs and performs. My 5DMKIII feels archaic in comparison and the 7Ds sensor has so much better colour noise control which is a big deal and so little banding! I'm comfortable pushing it up to 4000iso and its AF system is incredible, stick a 100-400MKII on it and it's fantastic even with a 1.4x. 

I wish it had the extra F8 points available but from what I've seen the 7DMKIIs AF system is more accurate and consistent than the 80D. I've seen all these threads about poor AF and mine is bang on. I would say I only got 10% OOF images while shooting for 2 months across Africa this year.

A camera is more than a spec sheet and if it performs so what if it doesn't beat the competition if it fits your need then use it. They are already cheap I bought mine in September last year for £800 bargain.


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## j-nord (Jul 5, 2016)

I agree the 7Dii has some competition now and Canon should release a 7Diii sooner than later, probably by end of next year or maybe early 2018. I think I'd have a tough time picking between the 7Dii and 80D right now, specifically for wildlife and also for general purpose. The mpix/DR/IQ/more f8 AF/price are all very attractive on the 80D as compared to the 7Dii. Certainly a big fps boost with the 7Dii over the 80D however, 7fps is still a big jump over my 6D's 4.5fps. If you have a good/later copy of the 7Dii then that is the obvious choice for a lot of BIF, if you don't shoot a ton of BIF, the 80D seems more attractive for many reasons. I think the cheaper 80D can/will steal a lot of sales from the 7Dii.


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## RGF (Jul 5, 2016)

Sabaki said:


> I'm less interested in when they upgrade the 7Dii and more interested in what they will incorporate.
> 
> Like Don Haines said, let the upgrade happen when it does and let the technology warrants the update.
> 
> ...



Agree that better camera would be worth the extra $.

Perhaps 1Dx focusing could be included.

Also better high ISO but that may be challenge for Canon.


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## ashmadux (Jul 18, 2016)

9VIII said:


> Canon could pump out a quick update that would be mostly worthwhile, but I would probably still feel like the product as a whole is somewhat lacking.
> 
> The 7D2 as we have it today is actually somewhat gimped because it doesn't have wi-fi or a touchscreen. Canon could just shove that and their new chip in it, but that would probably still feel half-baked to a lot of people.
> 
> ...



The 7d 2 is matched only by the 6d in terms of being the absolute weakest of canon launches in recent memory (excluding the M1/3).

The lack of excitement in reviews was sad. The image quality from my tester was just garbage....yeah, garbage....night photography tests had such limited dr, i almost couldn't believe it. No touchscreen, just stupid. The 7d2= no love from this shooter. Yuck.

At this point, canon could screw up with weak launches for the next 2 years...ill keep on trucking my my fantabulous 5d3. Omg I luv that camera.


PS- Did I mention i love my 5d3?


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## LSXPhotog (Jul 20, 2016)

I love my 7D2 and my original 7D. I will likely upgrade to the 7D3 when it comes out, but I feel everyone is freaking out about the D500 and need to just relax. When the 7D came out, it destroyed the Nikon equivalents. Then the 7D2 came out of nowhere with giant leaps forward and Nikon was still sleeping. They wait 6.5 years and leapfrog the Canon and everyone goes nuts...

My 7D2 is great and the 70-200 or 100-400mm lenses are stellar on them...that hasn't changed. The next generation will offer a new sensor and an even better AF system. I don't think it needs to arrive before a new 6D or 5D....or EOS M, though.


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## j-nord (Jul 20, 2016)

LSXPhotog said:


> I don't think it needs to arrive before a new 6D or 5D....or EOS M, though.


We should see all those new cameras released by this time next year. Maybe we'll see a 7Diii for Photokina 2017 but probably no earlier. 

I think the 7Dii could definitely use a sensor upgrade more than anything. Right now the 80D seems like a more attractive option even for someone who primarily wants to do wildlife (with the exception of doing mostly BIF).


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## Terry1946 (Jul 22, 2016)

The fundamental requirement of any camera, regardless of gimmicks such as wifi, gps, and articulating screens is image quality. Unfortunately, at the present time, the 7DMk2 trails behind the D500 quite significantly.
This situation has to be addressed quickly otherwise Canon will lose out, not only with new customers, but also existing Canon users who want the best results for this type of camera.
If Canon do not address this problem sooner rather than later they may well lose customers, and also existing Canon users who, having made the change, will not return.


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## AdamBotond (Jul 22, 2016)

Terry1946 said:


> The fundamental requirement of any camera, regardless of gimmicks such as wifi, gps, and articulating screens is image quality. Unfortunately, at the present time, the 7DMk2 trails behind the D500 quite significantly.
> This situation has to be addressed quickly otherwise Canon will lose out, not only with new customers, but also existing Canon users who want the best results for this type of camera.
> If Canon do not address this problem sooner rather than later they may well lose customers, and also existing Canon users who, having made the change, will not return.


While I don't see large number of Canon users jumping ship to Nikon just for the fact that D500 is now more appealing than any other APSC camera, I do agree that 7DII needs a replacement. The sooner the better, but I don't expect it before late 2017, unfortunately. IQ is only one of the few things that 7D successor will need to improve upon. AF issues, DR will hopefully be solved, as well. New 80D looks promising in DR and IQ and 7D successor will certainly incorporate that advanced tech.


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## unfocused (Jul 22, 2016)

j-nord said:


> Maybe we'll see a 7Diii for Photokina 2017 but probably no earlier.



Photokina is every other year.


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## tron (Jul 24, 2016)

ashmadux said:


> 9VIII said:
> 
> 
> > Canon could pump out a quick update that would be mostly worthwhile, but I would probably still feel like the product as a whole is somewhat lacking.
> ...


I do love my 2 5d3 cameras but my 7d2 too. It is not a night camera. In my opinion this was a wrong test. You have to know when to use it. I use it ONLY when I am FL limited (and I do own some white lenses) and ONLY when there is ample of light. In these situations it shines. In everything else not so much.


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## pwp (Jul 24, 2016)

tomscott said:


> The 7D MKII gets a lot of bad rep by a lot of people that don't use them....



+1... so right, as is so often the case. AKA armchair critics.

My 7DII continues to astound me with the incredible AF system and great feature set. It comfortably outperforms my retired 1D MkIV in all aspects except when pushing past 3200 iso. A touch of NR in Lr balances the equation. 

Some describe it as a mini 1DX. I wouldn't go quite that far but for the money it's great value. Just like any working tool at any price point, learn and be aware of it's strengths and limitations and get to work. 8)

I wouldn't be holding my breath for a 7D MkIII for a good few years yet. 

-pw


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## eosuser1234 (Aug 3, 2016)

Lets not forget the mirrorless cameras we are supposed to be surprised about APS-C and Fullframe.

Canon 7dm3 probably not until 2018.


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## Michael Clark (Aug 3, 2016)

j-nord said:


> LSXPhotog said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think it needs to arrive before a new 6D or 5D....or EOS M, though.
> ...



Photokina only happens in even numbered years. There is no Photokina 2017.


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## Mikehit (Aug 3, 2016)

I think they will release an update when they have a genuine upgrade rather than 'another bit of functionality' and that is pretty much a moveable feast because not only do they have to bring the new features in but make sure they work and from what I heard at the time, it was the final part that led to a 6-month delay in release of the MkII version.
If they add a second processor for the AF that would bring it remarkably close to the 1DXII. But a better battery and power management may be a good half way house. The other option is a sensor that has no more MP but has the low light performance of the 1DxII.


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## Michael Clark (Aug 3, 2016)

tron said:


> ashmadux said:
> 
> 
> > 9VIII said:
> ...



Yep. They are two different tools for two different uses. Both are very good when used for what they are designed to do. I would argue, though, that the 7DII can be a night camera in certain circumstances.

Under flickering stadium light the 7DII kicks the 5DIII's behind in terms of keeper ratio. The 5DIII has maybe a 10% edge over the 7DII in terms of AF consistency (maybe 90% to 80%). But what good is that when 60-70% of the shots from the 5DIII are either unusable or a pain to work in post because of the crazy color shift from one side of the frame to the other? Even the 1D X (but not the 1D XII) suffers in that respect.

Because the shutter always hits the light at their peak you can also shoot 2/3 to one full stop faster than with a camera that doesn't offer flicker reduction. In places where I shoot 1/500 @ f/2.8 and ISO 2500 I can use 1/1000 @ f/2.8 and ISO 2500 with the 7DII. That's huge for night sports! The exposure and color are very consistent in every frame and reduces or even totally eliminates the need to color correct each frame independently.


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## xps (Aug 5, 2016)

Some of the members of our local photoclub do own the 7DII, and we recogniced, that there is a wide spread of image quality and AF performance. We took some studio shots and compared the images. And there is really a wide range of quality difference. I was not in luck, mine has an impaired IQ and an unstable AF. Sometime sharp, most times not.... Sent three times to Canon, got three times back with no improvement. Nothing they can do. I should sell m,ine and buy another one. Maybe then I have better luck. 

So, I would like to see an upgade earlier. But I know this will not happen. The 7DII sells quite well, when I believe the salesnumbers from an bigger store in Germany. So, There is no need to hurry for Canon. Yes, Canon is technologically behind its peers (IQ & DR, AF performance), but the customer semms not to care about that. 

Canon can do better. Just look at the 80D, that is in most cases practically better than my 7DII. Some features are less highlighted (e.g. 27 AF points at f8), but the improvement we see n the 80D are definitely not small.

note: I hope the 5DIV will be a game changer, otherwise the A9 will be mine.


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## itsab1989 (Aug 6, 2016)

xps said:


> Some of the members of our local photoclub do own the 7DII, and we recogniced, that there is a wide spread of image quality and AF performance. We took some studio shots and compared the images. And there is really a wide range of quality difference. I was not in luck, mine has an impaired IQ and an unstable AF. Sometime sharp, most times not.... Sent three times to Canon, got three times back with no improvement. Nothing they can do. I should sell m,ine and buy another one. Maybe then I have better luck.
> 
> So, I would like to see an upgade earlier. But I know this will not happen. The 7DII sells quite well, when I believe the salesnumbers from an bigger store in Germany. So, There is no need to hurry for Canon. Yes, Canon is technologically behind its peers (IQ & DR, AF performance), but the customer semms not to care about that.
> 
> ...



I bought my 7D II one year ago online at Cyberport. I always was a little bit unhappy with the image qualtity. The focus was never really spot on and differed on each focus point. Sent it to CPS near Leipzig twice, but it didn't really improve. So last weak I wrote Cyberport that I either want a completely working model or my money back. At first they acted a little bit dumb. But after reminding them about their dutys and sending them the CPS reports they told me to send the camera back. They will check it and then give me my money back.
If I would sell it, I would get about 600€ less than I paid for it and somehow I don't agree with that. Hope it works out, but I'm not sure if I will buy a 7D II again, because the 5D IV seems pretty close...


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## xps (Aug 6, 2016)

itsab1989 said:


> xps said:
> 
> 
> > Some of the members of our local photoclub do own the 7DII, and we recogniced, that there is a wide spread of image quality and AF performance. We took some studio shots and compared the images. And there is really a wide range of quality difference. I was not in luck, mine has an impaired IQ and an unstable AF. Sometime sharp, most times not.... Sent three times to Canon, got three times back with no improvement. Nothing they can do. I should sell m,ine and buy another one. Maybe then I have better luck.
> ...



Hmm, I hope you get your money back. The shop where I bought it, will not be so customer friendly. 
I am not exaggerating. In my local photo club, many of my friends are not happy with the quality fluctuations. Canon CPS can´t do anything against it, because the problems are hardwarerelated - and they do not know, if another e.g. sensor works better. For the price of this camera a high level quality assurance is not possible, otherwise Canon will earn no profits anymore.

But on the other side, some of my friends own an 80D, as an "better" 7DII. And they are quite happy with it. This week we compared pictures from the same heron, parallel taken with exactly the same camera setup and the pictures are visibly much better. Better details, less noise,... My 7DII gets awfully noisy over Iso 400. My friends 80D had an comparable amount of noise at Iso 1600. 
Harder it is to compare the AF. So we did some baseline comparison at an shooting range on an sunny day, where we tried to follow the incoming or leaving targets (maximal distance 100m)for 5 cycles each. 
Moving directly toward me, my 7DII is not able to deliver sharp pictures. Only less than 10 pictures out of more than 120 are nearly sharp. If the target leaves, the number of sharp pictures gets more than doubled. If the target moves diagonally, the sharp picture rate increases up to one third. But only, if you use maximal the one point - AF surrounded by 8 or nine points. Zone AF and using all points do not work properly. The same situation occurs at other 7DIIs. Interestingly, the 80D and the 5DIII works much better, also the 1DX (that has an excellent AF system). The few 5DS our members own have the same problems with the AF. The 80D´s AF works quite fine. Yes, lower fps, but double the number of sharp and noiseless shots. So, what would you like better?
(BTW: The D500 and D750have an excellent AF system, also - interestingly the 7RII mounted on an 70-400m sony lens)

I like the crop, as I get crop small birds better. (I know, most dedicated wild life shooter will shake their heads. For them the 5DIII is lowest baseline.)


You know, why I am a friend of an 7DII replacement and hoping for an strong successor of the 5DIII. (Hope is the last to die! I fear the 5DIV gets just an small update)


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