# What’s next from Canon?



## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 30, 2019)

> Now that the announcements for the Canon EOS 90D and Canon EOS M6 Mark II are done, what can we expect next from Canon?
> *Canon Cinema C500 Mark II *(Pictured above)
> 
> This cinema camera will be announced on or around September 5, 2019, ahead of IBC in Amsterdam. Here are some of the rumored specifications.
> ...



Continue reading...


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## Quarkcharmed (Aug 30, 2019)

A high-res RS is long overdue. Thank you for not releasing it and saving my money, Canon.


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## McRphoto (Aug 30, 2019)

Thank you for no M5 Mark II and saving my money Canon


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## criscokkat (Aug 30, 2019)

McRphoto said:


> Thank you for no M5 Mark II and saving my money Canon


After seeing the m6II videos I would definitely consider a m5 II for my 80d replacement. I would order the m6 tomorrow but i like having speedlights occasionally.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 30, 2019)

criscokkat said:


> I would order the m6 tomorrow but i like having speedlights occasionally.


Presumably you mean you want to use an EVF and a Speedlite simultaneously?


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## tron (Aug 30, 2019)

Isn't the 90D a nice replacement for 80D?


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## Philrp (Aug 30, 2019)

My money is waiting for:

1- APS-C equiped EOS R body
2- M5 Mark II, should my first option not happen.

Barring these I'll get a used RP to play with sometime next summer.....


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## Photo Hack (Aug 30, 2019)

The real question is “What’s next for the CR forums?” 

After we burn the 24p thread and start the Utopia over.


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## tron (Aug 30, 2019)

Photo Hack said:


> The real question is “What’s next for the CR forums?” After we burn the 24p thread and start the Utopia over.


The APS-C R camera of course!  Oh wait we had that already...


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## Photo Hack (Aug 30, 2019)

Hybrid shooters link arms between photogs and cinematogs as we walk over the ashes of a painful Canon civil war....


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## criscokkat (Aug 30, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Presumably you mean you want to use an EVF and a Speedlite simultaneously?


Exactly, which is why I would like to see a M5II or even better, a r-mount version. Throw the m6II internals into an RP body, add a bit more buffer and price it the same as a 90D and call it a day. I'd like it to be a full R sized camera but I could live with the RP if /i had to.


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## TPatS (Aug 30, 2019)

Maybe canon is waiting on the 1D X mk3 as the product to launch IBIS in their DSLR lineup. Then maybe potentially a 7d3 with ibis a few months later in late 2020? Then in 2021 a 5d5? I'm just thinking that canon wouldn't waste developing ibis technology to only put it in the 1d line and a 7d seems like a fitting candidate for it. Then again numerous signs point to the 7d line being dead so it's rather confusing lol.


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## yeahright (Aug 30, 2019)

TPatS said:


> Maybe canon is waiting on the 1D X mk3 as the product to launch IBIS in their DSLR lineup. Then maybe potentially a 7d3 with ibis a few months later in late 2020? Then in 2021 a 5d5? I'm just thinking that canon wouldn't waste developing ibis technology to only put it in the 1d line and a 7d seems like a fitting candidate for it. Then again numerous signs point to the 7d line being dead so it's rather confusing lol.


Why would IBIS technology in a DSLR be any different than in a DSLM?


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## TPatS (Aug 30, 2019)

yeahright said:


> Why would IBIS technology in a DSLR be any different than in a DSLM?


You are correct, the transfer of ibis in a dslr to a mirrorless enviroment would not take much work in my unprofessional opinion. But do note that the IBIS patent canon filed was centered around a dslr application. I was just thinking about potential dslr applications for it since the rumour is that IBIS is coming to numerous DSLR's in the future.


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## Jasonmc89 (Aug 30, 2019)

tron said:


> Isn't the 90D a nice replacement for 80D?


Yes


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## criscokkat (Aug 30, 2019)

tron said:


> Isn't the 90D a nice replacement for 80D?


I'm going to assume that was a reply to me saying the m6II would be a potential replacement for a 80d

i really like the improved tracking of the m6ii. if you watch some of the videos comparing the two it's on a whole other level. The tracking on the 90d only works if you keep the center of the object in the middle of the picture, and only in select modes. Plus eye focus when not shooting action sports and all the wysiwyg modes for color, focus areas, etc.


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## canonnews (Aug 30, 2019)

TPatS said:


> You are correct, the transfer of ibis in a dslr to a mirrorless enviroment would not take much work in my unprofessional opinion. But do note that the IBIS patent canon filed was centered around a dslr application. I was just thinking about potential dslr applications for it since the rumour is that IBIS is coming to numerous DSLR's in the future.


it wasn't really. it was simply an illustrative diagram that Canon used. they also used diagrams that showed what appeared to be a mirrorless EF camera. they used a mix of diagrams.

one problem is that Canon's IS + IBIS patents a require fast communication between the lens and the camera body. That almost smells as a RF only solution.


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## tron (Aug 30, 2019)

Jasonmc89 said:


> Yes


Because I was wondering about *criscokkat's *post regarding the update of 80D with a yet non existing M5 MkII...
But whatever suits anyone...


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## Maximilian (Aug 30, 2019)

Whatever comes next will be nice to see. And I can calmly lean back and watch.
Because the line shakeup with EOS R/RF lenses and all the other stuff makes it an exiting time, but the Canon offer does not fit my needs yet (not to talk about my savings  , looking at the RF primes available now).


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## TPatS (Aug 30, 2019)

canonnews said:


> one problem is that Canon's IS + IBIS patents a require fast communication between the lens and the camera body. That almost smells as a RF only solution.


What does this mean for ibis on the 1dx mk3 then? Different system we haven't seen patents for?


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## Avenger 2.0 (Aug 30, 2019)

TPatS said:


> What does this mean for ibis on the 1dx mk3 then? Different system we haven't seen patents for?


I doubt they are going to test out the new ibis in their 1dx line.


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## Stereodude (Aug 30, 2019)

What's next from Canon?

*More Disappointment!*

It's their newest product.


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## Han (Aug 30, 2019)

How can I use an EVF with an external flash?


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## koenkooi (Aug 30, 2019)

Han said:


> How can I use an EVF with an external flash?



Trigger it optically with the built-in flash.


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## Han (Aug 30, 2019)

koenkooi said:


> Trigger it optically with the built-in flash.


WoW. I’m speechless. I just needed a pc connection to trigger one pocketwizard.


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## navastronia (Aug 30, 2019)

Photo Hack said:


> The real question is “What’s next for the CR forums?”
> 
> After we burn the 24p thread and start the Utopia over.



Reminded me of arguing on Gamers.com almost 2 decades ago


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## Han (Aug 30, 2019)

Han said:


> WoW. I’m speechless. I just needed a pc connection to trigger one pocketwizard.


Spend over 1000 euro’s for a camerasystem without flashsync? Are you serious?


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## TPatS (Aug 30, 2019)

Avenger 2.0 said:


> I doubt they are going to test out the new ibis in their 1dx line


Well reports are that the nikon d6 is coming next week with ibis so if canon doesn't do it they're putting their flagship at a major disadvantage.


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## tron (Aug 30, 2019)

Competition is nice for us consumers. And it's nice to have choices: APS-C, Full Frame, DSLR, Mirrorless, etc...


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 30, 2019)

Stereodude said:


> What's next from Canon?
> 
> *More Disappointment!*
> 
> It's their newest product.


I’m sure that’s what is next _for you_, but that says a lot more about you than about Canon.


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## jolyonralph (Aug 30, 2019)

TPatS said:


> What does this mean for ibis on the 1dx mk3 then? Different system we haven't seen patents for?


I'm sure it's possible, but it may be less effective than on the RF mount. EF lenses are 'dumb' in that the IS system in them is not aware of any possible in-body IS, so it might simply be easier for Canon to disable IBIS when IS is present on the lens. Alternatively they could have a system where the in-body IS is able to predict what the IS on the lens is likely to do and then assist - but this is going to be far less effective than true bidirectional IS communication between lens and body.

It may end up being far less of a problem than we expect though.


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## tron (Aug 30, 2019)

It would still be useful for lenses like 16-35 2.8L III, 24-70 2.8L II, 35 1.4L II, 85 1.2L II, etc to name but a few...


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## Stereodude (Aug 30, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> I’m sure that’s what is next _for you_, but that says a lot more about you than about Canon.


I'm really not sure what your following me around and trying to hump my leg all the time says about you.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 30, 2019)

Stereodude said:


> I'm really not sure what your following me around and trying to hump my leg all the time says about you.


In that case, perhaps you should stop pissing on threads like a dog marking territory. 

Incidentally, since I am one who prefers accurate facts and descriptions, in all of these recent threads I am the one who posted first. Therefore, it’s you who are following me around like a dog sticking his nose up another dog’s... Well, I’m sure you get the idea so I won’t be vulgar. 

If you prefer, there is an easy way to avoid having your posts replied to...don’t post.


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## Ozarker (Aug 30, 2019)

TPatS said:


> What does this mean for ibis on the 1dx mk3 then? Different system we haven't seen patents for?


Question #1: The 1DX Mark III may not have IBIS, but might.
Question #2: No


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## Stereodude (Aug 30, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> In that case, perhaps you should stop pissing on threads like a dog marking territory.


Only you get to do that around here right? Unfortunately everyone ends up with your piss all over them.



> Incidentally, since I am one who prefers accurate facts and descriptions, in all of these recent threads I am the one who posted first. Therefore, it’s you who are following me around like a dog sticking his nose up another dog’s... Well, I’m sure you get the idea so I won’t be vulgar.


And by "facts" you mean your opinions. You start every one of these. I never join a thread and quote you. You do that to me. I just give it back to you after you start.


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## NorskHest (Aug 30, 2019)

Han said:


> WoW. I’m speechless. I just needed a pc connection to trigger one pocketwizard.


Hahaha yeeesssss


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## Drcampbellicu (Aug 30, 2019)

I wonder if canon will up segment me by getting rid of the 7d series
It’s possible that the 1D or some high speed R series might be the camera that best fits my needs but it will surely cost more than the good old 7d series

Any thoughts?


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## criscokkat (Aug 30, 2019)

jolyonralph said:


> I'm sure it's possible, but it may be less effective than on the RF mount. EF lenses are 'dumb' in that the IS system in them is not aware of any possible in-body IS, so it might simply be easier for Canon to disable IBIS when IS is present on the lens. Alternatively they could have a system where the in-body IS is able to predict what the IS on the lens is likely to do and then assist - but this is going to be far less effective than true bidirectional IS communication between lens and body.
> 
> It may end up being far less of a problem than we expect though.


This might not be true of all EF lenses. The 70-2002.8 L III was optically unchanged but had more advanced communication capabilities.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 30, 2019)

criscokkat said:


> This might not be true of all EF lenses. The 70-2002.8 L III was *optically unchanged* but had more advanced communication capabilities.


Actually, the EF 70-200 III got new coatings which addressed what is (IMO) the only optical problem with the MkII – a propensity for veiling glare (flare resulting in diffuse loss of contrast) in backlit situations. The issue has affected a few of my portraits, at first I wondered if it was the protective filter (I use B+W MRC Nano), but removing the filter doesn’t help.

As Canon put it:


> To further enhance clarity, it adds Canon's Air Sphere Coating (ASC), which combines with updated Super Spectra Coatings to significantly reduce lens flare and ghosting.



That wasn’t enough to induce me to swap the II for the III, otherwise the II is an excellent lens.


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## TracerHD (Aug 31, 2019)

Hopefully a mirrorless RF 5D V, something like this:


40MP8 - 10 FPS with Eye-AFDual UHS IIJoystick4200€ - 3700€4K 30p with DPAF2K 120p with DPAF4.2.2 10 BitEye AF at movie servoDual Pixel2200 -2400 mAh16MP Crop ModeIBISUSB-CMic and Headphone supportFull weather sealed

4k 30p and not 4k 24p because of licens and segmentation.
40MP because it would be nearly the same %-difference how much size 1MP has (mm²) by APS-C:



MPMPSize (FF)30​40​36​24​Sensor sizeSize of 1MPSize of 1MPDifference (%)864​28,8​21,6​-75​Size (APS-C)24​32​22,2​14,8​Sensor sizeSize of 1MPSize of 1MPDifference (%)328,56​13,69​10,2675​-75​


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## tron (Aug 31, 2019)

And a 7DMkIII please! make it fast!


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## slclick (Aug 31, 2019)

tron said:


> And a 7DMkIII please! make it fast!


It sure would have shortened other 'popular' threads and made new agonizing long ones.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 31, 2019)

Personally I'd like:-
1: High resolution R.
2: M5 MkII with the M6 MkII sensor and Digic.
3: 1DX MkIII with a lot of small improvements.

In that order and I have the funding assigned for all of them, probably only a first adopter for the M5 MkII, but within a year of release for the other two.

I pray none of them have 24p so all the video shooters piss off to Pentax, Panasonic or Sony, or wherever else they feel the need to go.


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## st jack photography (Aug 31, 2019)

Stereodude said:


> Only you get to do that around here right? Unfortunately everyone ends up with your piss all over them.
> 
> 
> And by "facts" you mean your opinions. You start every one of these. I never join a thread and quote you. You do that to me. I just give it back to you after you start.


Stereodude just don't comment. You can't change a fanboys mind. They will lap up Canon's dog-puke, crippled bodies over and over. I stopped with the R, sent it back, now I come here to scratch my head at their latest step backwards and at least get news on the companies making stuff I DO like, like Sony and Sigma and Hasselblad. Canon and I are irreconcilable at this point, as I already got a medium format camera to replace my 5dsr and entire EF obsolete lens line. All I needed was a 5dsrm2 dlsr, same MP count but refined. And so, as usual: your supposed "elegant solution to full frame mirrorless that does not require an adapted EF lens."

So just don't engage with these idiots. Not worth it. Just know that a LOT of other people silently come here, shake their head sadly at the once-great Canon, get news, and leave without a comment. Know that you are one of many, if so.

These companies do not care about the consumer, period. None of them do, even the ones I am not actively hating on (Sony, Sigma, for example, who also don't care about you, just that they take bigger chances on special gear and they LISTEN TO THE FANS).

I remember a company that in 1987 started a revolution in glass and autofocus and everything in between that set everyone else 30 years behind. What happened to that company?

_Unacceptable language deleted by Moderator_


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## Quarkcharmed (Aug 31, 2019)

Nice table and sensor size vs mp count comparison, but almost all your desired specs are related to video. Maybe you actually need a video camera, not stills.



TracerHD said:


> Hopefully a mirrorless RF 5D V, something like this:
> 
> 
> 40MP8 - 10 FPS with Eye-AFDual UHS IIJoystick4200€ - 3700€4K 30p with DPAF2K 120p with DPAF4.2.2 10 BitEye AF at movie servoDual Pixel2200 -2400 mAh16MP Crop ModeIBISUSB-CMic and Headphone supportFull weather sealed
> ...


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 31, 2019)

st jack photography said:


> And so, as usual: _Offensive language removed by Moderator_.


_Good job...if you’re trying to vie with Stereodude for today’s Most Petulant Award.
_


st jack photography said:


> I remember a company that in 1987 started a revolution in glass and autofocus and everything in between that set everyone else 30 years behind. What happened to that company?


It took that company 16 years to become the #1 global ILC brand. They’ve remained #1 ever since. Along the way they introduced the first sub-$1K DSLR, the first image stabilized lens, the first DO lens, the first fisheye zoom lens, the first touchscreen on a DSLR, dual-pixel AF, and a host of other innovations.

What have you accomplished in the past 32 years? Well okay, if you’ve been alive that whole time you’ve converted about 13 metric tons of oxygen into about 19 metric tons of carbon dioxide. Hurray for you!


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## Aussie shooter (Aug 31, 2019)

st jack photography said:


> Stereodude just don't comment. You can't change a fanboys mind. They will lap up Canon's dog-puke, crippled bodies over and over. I stopped with the R, sent it back, now I come here to scratch my head at their latest step backwards and at least get news on the companies making stuff I DO like, like Sony and Sigma and Hasselblad. Canon and I are irreconcilable at this point, as I already got a medium format camera to replace my 5dsr and entire EF obsolete lens line. All I needed was a 5dsrm2 dlsr, same MP count but refined. And so, as usual: F&#^ YOU CANON. F#*& YOUR RF LENSES. F#*% your supposed "elegant solution to full frame mirrorless that does not require an adapted EF lens."
> 
> So just don't engage with these idiots. Not worth it. Just know that a LOT of other people silently come here, shake their head sadly at the once-great Canon, get news, and leave without a comment. Know that you are one of many, if so.
> 
> ...


Jeez. I think you need a bit of lotion for that butt hurt canon has given you.maybe even see a doctor. It seems serious.


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## 3kramd5 (Aug 31, 2019)

st jack photography said:


> they LISTEN TO THE FANS).



Nothing says “healthy company” quite like listening to fanatics.

If I invested in camera companies (I don’t), I would walk swiftly from one which reacted to fanaticism rather than reasoned business strategy. As a camera user, I’m less emphatic about it, but the sentiments are the same.


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## Franklyok (Aug 31, 2019)

*" Canon Cinema C500 Mark II *" let it come out and all the photographers would have to revenge whine, how crap camera this is for stills.


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## mpb001 (Aug 31, 2019)

I personally don’t think that we will see a 40 mp R body coming anytime soon. That is probably more likely in Canons second iteration of R and RP bodies with IBIS. The next R series body is likely to be in the 70-80 mp range with IBIS, IMO to compete with Sony.


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## kiwiengr (Aug 31, 2019)

mpb001 said:


> I personally don’t think that we will see a 40 mp R body coming anytime soon. That is probably more likely in Canons second iteration of R and RP bodies with IBIS. The next R series body is likely to be in the 70-80 mp range with IBIS, IMO to compete with Sony.



An extrapolation of the sensor in the 90D / M6MkII gets to 83Mpixels....


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## Eagle Eye (Aug 31, 2019)

McRphoto said:


> Thank you for no M5 Mark II and saving my money Canon


I'm anticipating seeing the M5 Mark II announced in February 2020. I remember thinking in 2017 when the M6 was announced that Canon would have generally been better off announcing the M6 first and the M5 later. Obviously there were reasons for the decision, but my guess is those reasons pertained to factors no longer relevant. The rumors of the M6 Mark II replacing the M5 don't hold water. In the marketing materials for the Canon operations around the world, the M5 continues to hold the flagship position (except in HK, where it's no longer even listed). Canon USA would not have told someone that the M6 Mark II replaces M5 (even if it does) if Canon is going to continue to sell the M5 and market it as the flagship. Before someone says "Canon does everything for a reason," I point you to Canon Australia's YouTube error. DPReview either didn't understand the nuance of Canon's statement or Canon's agent misspoke, unless I see something concrete that says otherwise. There's also not a lot of point to some of the feature restrictions in the M6 Mark II if you're not going to position a camera above it. I would be surprised if Canon saw EOS M sales as a potential threat to the more lucrative R ecosystem, so with a flagship EOS M, they're really just building it to be a threat to competitors, particularly if the flagship EOS M comes in at a price point equal to the RP.


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## mpb001 (Aug 31, 2019)

Eagle Eye said:


> I'm anticipating seeing the M5 Mark II announced in February 2020. I remember thinking in 2017 when the M6 was announced that Canon would have generally been better off announcing the M6 first and the M5 later. Obviously there were reasons for the decision, but my guess is those reasons pertained to factors no longer relevant. The rumors of the M6 Mark II replacing the M5 don't hold water. In the marketing materials for the Canon operations around the world, the M5 continues to hold the flagship position (except in HK, where it's no longer even listed). Canon USA would not have told someone that the M6 Mark II replaces M5 (even if it does) if Canon is going to continue to sell the M5 and market it as the flagship. Before someone says "Canon does everything for a reason," I point you to Canon Australia's YouTube error. DPReview either didn't understand the nuance of Canon's statement or Canon's agent misspoke, unless I see something concrete that says otherwise. There's also not a lot of point to some of the feature restrictions in the M6 Mark II if you're not going to position a camera above it. I would be surprised if Canon saw EOS M sales as a potential threat to the more lucrative R ecosystem, so with a flagship EOS M, they're really just building it to be a threat to competitors, particularly if the flagship EOS M comes in at a price point equal to the RP.


I think if Canon wants a real presence in the mirrorless APSc market they need to come out with a higher end model that exceeds the M5 and now the M6 II. From what I read the M5 wasn’t the best construction, not a metal body and just not up to the typical Canon standards. I’m not saying it isn’t a good camera. Im still it is and many people like it. I just think that they should up their game a bit more in that market. Also add more faster, pro grade M lenses. I am not in the APSc mirrorless camp yet, but would be interested in adding a higher end Canon APSc mirrorless to my current 5DIV.


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## Joules (Aug 31, 2019)

mpb001 said:


> From what I read the M5 wasn’t the best construction, not a metal body and just not up to the typical Canon standards.


With weight and size being what drives the M series, a metal body would not be considered an upgrade for many users I think. I've read complaints about the slightly larger grip on the M6 II compared to the M6.

It's a different market. And Canon already has a gigantic presence in it.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 31, 2019)

mpb001 said:


> I think if Canon wants a real presence in the mirrorless APSc market they need to come out with a higher end model that exceeds the M5 and now the M6 II.


The M-series is the globally best-selling mirrorless ILC. But you’re saying they ‘don’t have a real presence in the market’. 

When you’re ready, please feel free to join us here in reality.


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## mpb001 (Aug 31, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> The M-series is the globally best-selling mirrorless ILC. But you’re saying they ‘don’t have a real presence in the market’.
> 
> When you’re ready, please feel free to join us here in reality.


Canon does not have much of a presence specifically in the mirrorless, APSC professional market. They apparently don’t really care about that segment.


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## slclick (Aug 31, 2019)

mpb001 said:


> Canon does not have much of a presence specifically in the mirrorless, APSC professional market. They apparently don’t really care about that segment.


Some might say there is no market. Enthusiast yes...Pro and crop? Debatable.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 31, 2019)

mpb001 said:


> Canon does not have much of a presence specifically in the mirrorless, APSC professional market. They apparently don’t really care about that segment.


The mirrorless APS-C professional market? What the heck is that? You could also say that Canon does not have much of a presence specifically in the mirrorless APS-C chartreuse-and-mauve-polka-dot-colored camera market. 

But hey, you can segment the market however you like in your private reality.


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## Bob Howland (Aug 31, 2019)

Wild guess: The M5II will move upmarket, become about RP size and effectively be the 7D3. It will be introduced more or less simultaneously with the fully professional R-mount camera late in 2019 or very early in 2020.


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## mpb001 (Aug 31, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> The mirrorless APS-C professional market? What the heck is that? You could also say that Canon does not have much of a presence specifically in the mirrorless APS-C chartreuse-and-mauve-polka-dot-colored camera market.
> 
> But hey, you can segment the market however you like in your private reality.


You don’t consider Panasonic, S series. Sone Fuji mirrorless cameras professional series APSC mirrorless professional cameras? Many people do...
This is the mirrorless APSC professional market segment that Canon appears to be neglecting.


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## mpb001 (Aug 31, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> The mirrorless APS-C professional market? What the heck is that? You could also say that Canon does not have much of a presence specifically in the mirrorless APS-C chartreuse-and-mauve-polka-dot-colored camera market.
> 
> But hey, you can segment the market however you like in your private reality.


I stand corrected. I meant the Panasonic G series which is APSC, not the S series FF.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 31, 2019)

mpb001 said:


> I stand corrected. I meant the Panasonic G series which is APSC, not the S series FF.


You still stand wrong. The Panasonic G series is m4/3, not APS-C. Fuji barely even represents a blip in the MILC market as a whole. Sony makes ‘pro-level’ FF MILCs, their APS-C MILCs are xxD-level enthusiast cameras. The Leica CL is probably the only ‘pro-level’ APS-C MILC out there, but total Leica camera sales aren’t enough for market research firms to even show their slice of the market share pie.

Are we done?


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## BroncosFan (Aug 31, 2019)

Continued declining sales?


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## Bob Howland (Aug 31, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> The mirrorless APS-C professional market? What the heck is that?


Maybe you should ask all those photographers who (1) make money with their 7d2 and (2) are routinely focal length limited. 32 MP APS-C scales up to 82mp FF, but with that many pixels, getting 20 FPS might get expensive.

I didn't quote your needlessly insulting comments.


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## unfocused (Aug 31, 2019)

I've been thinking about the 90D and a few things perplex me.

The marketing and announcement seem a bit underwhelming if this truly represents the merging of the XXD and 7D lines. I'm comparing it to other Canon announcements, like the 7DII, and it just seems like they are almost _trying_ to fly under the radar.

While the specs are great for an upgrade to the 80D, it seems as though Canon deliberately left some room there for another model -- autofocus being the most obvious example. I get the feeling they are hedging their bet a bit here, leaving enough off so that if they see a market for a truly top of the line APS-C camera, they have room to offer that and still have sufficient product differentiation.

Pricing: Not that I'm complaining, but if they can offer these upgrades at the same price as the 80D at introduction, why not fill in the gaps a bit more fully and price it somewhere between the 7D and 80D? At this level, I'm not sure the buyers are so price sensitive that an extra say $200 would deter anyone if the specs matched the price.

No definitive statement from Canon. I get that a company is unlikely to announce they are killing a product, but if they truly wanted to migrate 7D users to the 90D, it would have been more effective to announce that the 90D is now the flagship APS-C body.

Now, if an APS-C R is coming sometime in the next year or so, this all might make sense. Or, if Canon simply decided to defer a final decision on the 7DIII for a year or so, this would also make sense.

*Edit*: I forgot to mention that I was also struck by Rudy Winston's 90D video which opens by framing the camera as a DSLR "for the photo enthusiast looking to step up to the next level." I may be parsing the words too much, but that doesn't sound to me like the language Canon would ordinarily use for their flagship APS-C body.


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## tron (Aug 31, 2019)

Bob Howland said:


> Maybe you should ask all those photographers who (1) make money with their 7d2 and (2) are routinely focal length limited. 32 MP APS-C scales up to 82mp FF, but with that many pixels, getting 20 FPS might get expensive.
> 
> I didn't quote your needlessly insulting comments.


Last time I checked 7D2 is not mirrorless and a 7D3 at 32Mp or similar would give the same photographers as per your hypothesis more reach. Also everyone who is focal length limited would appreciate not having to use adaptors for their big white teles. By the way:
1. I have 7D2
2. I am focal length limited (even with my 500 4L II)
3. I do not understand what is wrong in the mind of forum members that rave about an APS-C R camera instead or at least in addition to the updates of existing ones . 90D proves it can be nicely done.


----------



## slclick (Aug 31, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> You still stand wrong. The Panasonic G series is m4/3, not APS-C. Fuji barely even represents a blip in the MILC market as a whole. Sony makes ‘pro-level’ FF MILCs, their APS-C MILCs are xxD-level enthusiast cameras. The Leica CL is probably the only ‘pro-level’ APS-C MILC out there, but total Leica camera sales aren’t enough for market research firms to even show their slice of the market share pie.
> 
> Are we done?


They sure are keeping you busy


----------



## rjbray01 (Aug 31, 2019)

Photo Hack said:


> The real question is “What’s next for the CR forums?”
> 
> After we burn the 24p thread and start the Utopia over.



When the Canon/Sony/Nikon takeovers start speculation will be rife


----------



## slclick (Aug 31, 2019)

unfocused said:


> I've been thinking about the 90D and a few things perplex me.
> 
> The marketing and announcement seem a bit underwhelming if this truly represents the merging of the XXD and 7D lines. I'm comparing it to other Canon announcements, like the 7DII, and it just seems like they are almost _trying_ to fly under the radar.
> 
> ...


I still am not convinced that it is anyone outside of this forum and like online presences which have stated that it is a merging of lines. I would appreciate someone linking up a Canon official statement to the contrary and I will stop harping about this, thank you.


----------



## mpb001 (Aug 31, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> You still stand wrong. The Panasonic G series is m4/3, not APS-C. Fuji barely even represents a blip in the MILC market as a whole. Sony makes ‘pro-level’ FF MILCs, their APS-C MILCs are xxD-level enthusiast cameras. The Leica CL is probably the only ‘pro-level’ APS-C MILC out there, but total Leica camera sales aren’t enough for market research firms to even show their slice of the market share pie.
> 
> Are we done?


Not quite. Sony makes APSC mirrorless for amateur photographers. Fuji has professional grade. Now we’re done.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 31, 2019)

Bob Howland said:


> Maybe you should ask all those photographers who (1) make money with their 7d2 and (2) are routinely focal length limited. 32 MP APS-C scales up to 82mp FF, but with that many pixels, getting 20 FPS might get expensive.


Last I checked, the 7DII has a mirror – using that DSLR to define the ‘professional APS-C mirrorless market’ is asinine. Unless it’s your contention that most/all 7DII users would switch to mirrorless...but we both know you have no evidence for that. 

Nice try, though. Pro tip for next time: try bringing some facts to the discussion.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 31, 2019)

mpb001 said:


> Not quite. Sony makes APSC mirrorless for amateur photographers. Fuji has professional grade. Now we’re done.


Still not done, I need to say that you’ve finally gotten to being right on two counts (but only after you radically moved your goalposts by qualifying your original claim about the ‘APS-C mirrorless market’ to add the term ‘professional’ and after dropping both Panasonic and Sony from your list).

Fuji makes pro-level APS-C mirrorless, and Canon has no apparent interest in capturing that minuscule bit of the market.

Hopefully you can acknowledge that your final claim looks essentially nothing like your original, completely fallacious argument.


----------



## TracerHD (Aug 31, 2019)

Photo Hack said:


> The real question is “What’s next for the CR forums?”
> 
> After we burn the 24p thread and start the Utopia over.



Easy to say: The limitation of Silent Shooting in One-Shot ONLY at the 90D


----------



## Sharlin (Aug 31, 2019)

slclick said:


> I still am not convinced that it is anyone outside of this forum and like online presences which have stated that it is a merging of lines. I would appreciate someone linking up a Canon official statement to the contrary and I will stop harping about this, thank you.



Yes. It is pretty clear that Canon absolutely does not intend the 90D to be a merger in any meaningful way. In Canon’s terms, it is still an ”advanced amateurs” body; an x0D that received a very nice set of improvements compared to its predecessor, and which Canon markets as more action and wildlife oriented than previous x0Ds (because evidently the target audience is there) but still a jack-of-all-trades and the primary choice for people upgrading from Rebels to a more advanced DSLR. (It’s also pretty obvious that it’s a way for Canon to show off their new sensor tech.) The fact that the 90D is not a merger does not imply that the 7D line is not dead, though, at least in DSLR form (sorry for the triple negative!)


----------



## Bob Howland (Aug 31, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Last I checked, the 7DII has a mirror – using that DSLR to define the ‘professional APS-C mirrorless market’ is asinine. Unless it’s your contention that most/all 7DII users would switch to mirrorless...but we both know you have no evidence for that.
> 
> Nice try, though. Pro tip for next time: try bringing some facts to the discussion.


As I see it, the ‘professional APS-C mirrorless market’ has little or nothing to do with the presence or absence of a mirror. It is solely a function of the size and pixel pitch of the sensor. The absence of the mirror becomes important, however, when trying to implement "30 FPS raw bursts", which is likely going to be difficult with a mirror. 

Neuro, you're just a pretentious jerk.


----------



## Chris_Seattle (Aug 31, 2019)

To me, it’s very possible that Canon feels the need to delay the release of particular models in order to protect an already declining business.

Why else wouldn’t Canon release the M5 Mark ii at the same time as the M6?

Does anyone really want a camera without a built in viewfinder? If you can’t wait to upgrade your gear you’ll just go ahead and buy the M6 Mark ii now with a clunky detachable viewfinder that you obviously can’t simultaneously use with the hot shoe.

Does anyone really want to go without a viewfinder on anything more advanced than a cell phone or a point and shoot, or have a detachable one kicking around?

No, you want the M5 Mark ii because it’s just more elegant and functional to have it integrated. Canon is just hoping by removing some obvious features you’ll just end of buying another one later when your frustration and bank account builds up again.

It’s the same thing with the 90D and the removal of 24P. Cripple an easily added feature and then maybe, just maybe, you’ll buy another one down the road. If they actually released a pro mirrorless body with APS-C now, impatient 7D Mark ii users wouldn’t be tempted to upgrade to buy the 90D now, then another body later.

Cameras are getting so good now, that if Canon throws in all the features they reasonably could all at once, consumers just may stop upgrading. Once people have all the reasonable features in one package, and can print 300 dpi prints at poster size, many will never feel the need to upgrade again. Canon may just be trying to delay that inevitability.


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## slclick (Aug 31, 2019)

Bob Howland said:


> As I see it, the ‘professional APS-C mirrorless market’ has little or nothing to do with the presence or absence of a mirror. It is solely a function of the size and pixel pitch of the sensor. The absence of the mirror becomes important, however, when trying to implement "30 FPS raw bursts", which is likely going to be difficult with a mirror.
> 
> Neuro, you're just a pretentious jerk.


Because he has good reading comprehension and calls folks out on their statements with glaring holes? I'll take that over name callers any day of the week Sir.


----------



## canonnews (Sep 1, 2019)

Chris_Seattle said:


> To me, it’s very possible that Canon feels the need to delay the release of particular models in order to protect an already declining business.



Oh good grief.



Chris_Seattle said:


> Why else wouldn’t Canon release the M5 Mark ii at the same time as the M6?



The M5 and M6 weren't released together either, but around 6 months apart.
They could be doing it for a lot of reasons.
a) they were already launching 2 cameras - I can't think of a time they launched three at the same time.
b) there's absolutely nothing happening show / hype wise in August or September this year. all the big events are scheduled for next spring - why announce your flagship mirrorless APS-C now?
c) they wanted to shove more into it.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 1, 2019)

Bob Howland said:


> As I see it, the ‘professional APS-C mirrorless market’ has little or nothing to do with the presence or absence of a mirror. It is solely a function of the size and pixel pitch of the sensor. The absence of the mirror becomes important, however, when trying to implement "30 FPS raw bursts", which is likely going to be difficult with a mirror.


As you see it, the ‘professional APS-C *mirrorless* market’ *has little or nothing to do with the *presence or _*absence of a mirror. *_Seriously, that’s a textbook oxymoron. 

A mirror means an OVF, no lag for tracking a subject, no constant drain on the battery to look through the VF. Perhaps you should ask ask all those photographers who make money with their 7d2 and if they think a mirrorless camera would meet their needs as well as their DSLR.



Bob Howland said:


> Neuro, you're just a pretentious jerk.


Do you think puerile name-calling like that adds value to the forum? All it really does is demonstrate your immaturity.


----------



## Bob Howland (Sep 1, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> As you see it, the ‘professional APS-C *mirrorless* market’ *has little or nothing to do with the *presence or _*absence of a mirror. *_Seriously, that’s a textbook oxymoron.


Yes, and quite deliberate. If a case can be made for a professional APS-C DSLR and the professional user needs more than 10FPS, then a case can be made for a professional APSC MILC. My 7D tops out at 8FPS because that has proven fast enough for my needs.



neuroanatomist said:


> A mirror means an OVF, no lag for tracking a subject, no constant drain on the battery to look through the VF. Perhaps you should ask ask all those photographers who make money with their 7d2 and if they think a mirrorless camera would meet their needs as well as their DSLR.


Those arguments also apply to FF professional cameras. Are you planning on keeping your 1Dx forever?



neuroanatomist said:


> Do you think puerile name-calling like that adds value to the forum? All it really does is demonstrate your immaturity.


Pot, meet kettle.


----------



## Travel_Photographer (Sep 1, 2019)

Chris_Seattle said:


> Does anyone really want a camera without a built in viewfinder? If you can’t wait to upgrade your gear you’ll just go ahead and buy the M6 Mark ii now with a clunky detachable viewfinder that you obviously can’t simultaneously use with the hot shoe.
> 
> Does anyone really want to go without a viewfinder on anything more advanced than a cell phone or a point and shoot, or have a detachable one kicking around?
> 
> No, you want the M5 Mark ii because it’s just more elegant and functional to have it integrated.



I definitely want a camera without a viewfinder. I have other Canon cameras with viewfinders for when that's necessary. In the M6 line, I'm looking for the absolute *smallest, lightest* APS-C camera I can possibly get with physical dials and controls for use when I need to travel super-light. When recording video, which a huge portion of M6 users use their cameras for, it's much easier to use the screen than a viewfinder, and probably most importantly, I use my M6 on a gimbal, which you obviously wouldn't use a viewfinder for, and *the viewfinder would get in the way of the gimbal movements* (in the manual for my gimbal, it literally calls out the M5's viewfinder as being a physical obstruction to the proper functioning of the gimbal).

I totally get that for lots of people the integrated viewfinder is important. But for many people, the fact that it is not there is equally as important. Canon clearly sees that since they upgraded the M6, not the M5.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 1, 2019)

Bob Howland said:


> Yes, and quite deliberate. If a case can be made for a professional APS-C DSLR and the professional user needs more than 10FPS, then a case can be made for a professional APSC MILC. My 7D tops out at 8FPS because that has proven fast enough for my needs.


I’m not saying a case cannot be made for a professional APS-C MILC. I’m saying the market for that is currently minuscule. You’re claiming the markets for pro APS-C DSLRs and MILCs are identical, clearly they’re not.



Bob Howland said:


> Those arguments also apply to FF professional cameras. Are you planning on keeping your 1Dx forever?


I have an EOS R and it fails to meet my needs for action photography. 



Bob Howland said:


> Pot, meet kettle.


I characterize people’s _actions_, such as your petulant behavior. Your name-calling is rude and inappropriate, and reflects poorly on your character.


----------



## Drcampbellicu (Sep 1, 2019)

Bob Howland said:


> Wild guess: The M5II will move upmarket, become about RP size and effectively be the 7D3. It will be introduced more or less simultaneously with the fully professional R-mount camera late in 2019 or very early in 2020.



You might be right
Which sucks for me
The m series just isn’t for me


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## criscokkat (Sep 1, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> I’m not saying a case cannot be made for a professional APS-C MILC. I’m saying the market for that is currently minuscule. You’re claiming the markets for pro APS-C DSLRs and MILCs are identical, clearly they’re not.
> 
> 
> I have an EOS R and it fails to meet my needs for action photography.
> ...


The new firmware update will help with the focus tracking some but it won’t increase the 5fps while doing so.


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## flip314 (Sep 1, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Fuji makes pro-level APS-C mirrorless, and Canon has no apparent interest in capturing that minuscule bit of the market.



Fuji makes pro-level APS-C mirrorless that's almost as expensive as FF.


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## 3kramd5 (Sep 1, 2019)

Bob Howland said:


> My 7D tops out at 8FPS because that has proven fast enough for my needs.



... do you mean *you haven’t replaced your 7D* because it has proven fast enough for your needs?


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## Stig Nygaard (Sep 1, 2019)

My wishes are simple...

While waiting for mirrorless technology to mature (I'm not convinced it is ready to replace 7D/1Dx type of cameras yet):

1) 7D Mark III

and then when technology are ready and a broader selection of lenses has become available:

2) APS-C R-mount camera and lenses (APS-C because of size, weight and prices of lenses - and camera. R-mount because if I have to change, I want an advanced, high-performance and "future-proof" mount)

Okay, I guess I'm ******* :-/


----------



## Sharlin (Sep 1, 2019)

Stig Nygaard said:


> While waiting for mirrorless technology to mature (I'm not convinced it is ready to replace 7D/1Dx type of cameras yet):



Actually this makes me more inclined to think that we might indeed see a high-performance APS-C R body sooner rather than later, and that there will not be a 7D3. It would be an excellent technological stepping stone and a proof of concept for the eventual flagship FF R body. Most of the pieces of the puzzle are there now:

DPAF is probably better at tracking than any of Canon's discrete PDAF systems, and functions down to f/11 and -5 EV (at f/1.2)
32 Mpix * 14 fps already exceeds the 1DX2 throughput by 50% and 7D2 throughput by over 100%
The 30fps 18Mpix RAW burst mode with continuous AF is ludicrous and should make any action shooter drool
EVFs are starting to be really really good, and VF blackout/lag when continuous shooting is improved a lot albeit still not there
Exposure simulation basically amounts to night vision when shooting in dark conditions
Fewer moving parts prone to breakage
The main hurdle to overcome is almost certainly battery life and the fact that you can't even frame a shot without consuming power. Maybe a rangefinder-style hybrid VF à la Fuji might be the solution…


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## Bob Howland (Sep 1, 2019)

3kramd5 said:


> ... do you mean *you haven’t replaced your 7D* because it has proven fast enough for your needs?


Yes. Thank you


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## HarryFilm (Sep 1, 2019)

On a technological basis all this bickering is pointless because this is all very much like the fairly fast switch-over from CRT (Cathode Ray Tube) television to FLATSCREEN LCD, LED and OLED HD television, where a newcomer technology (diode or plasma-based displays) simply STEAMROLLED over everyone else with a newer, better-looking, more economical and easier to manufacture technology.

And in the case of DSLR's and Mirrorless Interchangeable lens cameras, THEY are going to be utterly STEAMROLLED into niche applications by large sensor super-smartphones! Now that i've had two of them in my hands PERSONALLY for the last little while, I can see why Canon's Rebel, 7D-series, M-series and even 5D/1D series AND Nikon's D5/D850/Z6/Z7 series will be OBLITERATED soon enough by fully mirrorless, GLOBAL SHUTTER large sensored (2/3rds inch, M4/3rds and APS-C) all-in-one smartphone devices!

The combination of computational photography software AND large global shutter sensors AND Android-based large-memory-storage super-smartphones KILLS that DSLR and even Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera market dead! We all KNOW Canon and Nikon ARE coming out eventually with MIRRORLESS Canon Pro-level 5D/1D and Nikon D5/Zx series cameras and THEY WILL DO VERY WELL financially because THOSE brands are what the pros trust and will CONTINUE to buy and use! However, for John and Jane Q. Public, everything else in their camera lines is toast because of these new all-in-one super-smartphones which offer bigger bang-for-the-buck in a SINGLE device!

The MILC at the lower end is dead in the water because on these new super-smartphones, I can put different lenses on them with a simple addition of a plastic/metal cage that has a removeable SSD storage compartment and lens attachment accessory which costs less than $250 US !!! I can use these large-sensor smartphones as-is but if I want more than the 2x optical zoom and extra image-stabilization, I will PRO-ertize my new super-smartphone with this extra $250 cage accessory cage which allows me to switch out various prime or zoom lenses, put in bigger batteries and add more storage capacity! What's NOT to like about that?

For the NEWLY graduated videographer and budget filmmaker, the super-smartphones will take over from the 7D and M-series cameras and for the pros, they will buy a mirrorless version of the 1Dx3. The Hollywood cinema user will get the NEW upcoming 65mm/70mm sensor medium format 8K 16-bits per RGB channel 60 fps mirrorless global shutter cameras! Mom, Dad and Siblings will buy the lower-end versions of these super-smartphones and call it a day using just the built-in 35mm lens AND using them for doing typical smartphone activities such as phones calls and internet access!

.
.

So Remember, YOU READ IT HERE FIRST !!!

.


----------



## rjbray01 (Sep 1, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> On a technological basis all this bickering is pointless because this is all very much like the fairly fast switch-over from CRT (Cathode Ray Tube) television to FLATSCREEN LCD, LED and OLED HD television, where a newcomer technology (diode or plasma-based displays) simply STEAMROLLED over everyone else with a newer, better-looking, more economical and easier to manufacture technology.
> 
> And in the case of DSLR's and Mirrorless Interchangeable lens cameras, THEY are going to be utterly STEAMROLLED into niche applications by large sensor super-smartphones! Now that i've had two of them in my hands PERSONALLY for the last little while, I can see why Canon's Rebel, 7D-series, M-series and even 5D/1D series AND Nikon's D5/D850/Z6/Z7 series will be OBLITERATED soon enough by fully mirrorless, GLOBAL SHUTTER large sensored (2/3rds inch, M4/3rds and APS-C) all-in-one smartphone devices!
> 
> ...



you forgot a few other important technologies ... which will destroy the entire DSLR and Mirrorless camera market

1. 5G ...

Allows phones to connect to hyper-powerful computational photography software running in the cloud

2. Google / Microsoft / Apple glasses ...

When coupled with the sort of uber-smart-phone-camera you are outlining, this should solve the problems of not being able to see the back of the screen on a bright summer's day - the glasses will become your viewfinder

3. brain implants

Obviously we are all on the edge of our seats for these ... allowing us brain-activated total recall of all our photographs and videos just like in Black Mirror


----------



## sdz (Sep 1, 2019)

rjbray01 said:


> you forgot a few other important technologies ... which will destroy the entire DSLR and Mirrorless camera market
> 
> {snip}
> 
> ...


----------



## rbielefeld (Sep 1, 2019)

Stig Nygaard said:


> My wishes are simple...
> 
> While waiting for mirrorless technology to mature (I'm not convinced it is ready to replace 7D/1Dx type of cameras yet):
> 
> ...


Mirrorless is getting really close to matching 1Dx type performance. I have been a Canon shooter since I was a kid, and I am now in my 50's. I shoot mostly birds in flight and other fast action. For me the 1DxII is the best bird in flight camera I have ever had the pleasure to shoot. But, if you have a chance, try a Sony a9. I now have one that I am shooting side by side with my 1DxII both with Sony and adapted Canon glass (e.g., Sony 200-600 and 400 2.8 with and without teleconverters and Canon 100-400 and 600 f/4 with and without teleconverters). The a9's performance is right up there with the 1DxII; very capable. No blackout EVF is pretty amazing as is the tracking AF. It is actually easier to track a BIF with the Sony because there is no 'stop action' affect from a flipping mirror as in the 1DxII. Overall, I would say the Sony a9 is very close and the soon to be announced a9II; well who knows. Me, I love all the innovation coming out from all the manufactures. It is a great time to be a photographer IMO.


----------



## Eagle Eye (Sep 1, 2019)

mpb001 said:


> I think if Canon wants a real presence in the mirrorless APSc market they need to come out with a higher end model that exceeds the M5 and now the M6 II. From what I read the M5 wasn’t the best construction, not a metal body and just not up to the typical Canon standards. I’m not saying it isn’t a good camera. Im still it is and many people like it. I just think that they should up their game a bit more in that market. Also add more faster, pro grade M lenses. I am not in the APSc mirrorless camp yet, but would be interested in adding a higher end Canon APSc mirrorless to my current 5DIV.



The one native EF-M lens I feel I'm missing is a 53mm f/1.8. I'm using either a Rokinon 50mm manual focus or the EF 50mm STM now. Both are good, but I'd love to have a native lens with the same filter diameter as the EF-M 32mm. As for M5 construction - I generally agree that it feels less expensive, but I've had mine for nearly three years and it's seen minor water exposure and a few light impacts and has held up well. It seems to be tougher than it feels, but feel does matter.


----------



## flip314 (Sep 1, 2019)

rjbray01 said:


> 3. brain implants



What's Harry going to do with a brain implant? He'd need somewhere to implant it first.


----------



## Hector1970 (Sep 1, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> And in the case of DSLR's and Mirrorless Interchangeable lens cameras, THEY are going to be utterly STEAMROLLED into niche applications by large sensor super-smartphones! Now that i've had two of them in my hands PERSONALLY for the last little while, I can see why Canon's Rebel, 7D-series, M-series and even 5D/1D series AND Nikon's D5/D850/Z6/Z7 series will be OBLITERATED soon enough by fully mirrorless, GLOBAL SHUTTER large sensored (2/3rds inch, M4/3rds and APS-C) all-in-one smartphone devices!
> 
> The combination of computational photography software AND large global shutter sensors AND Android-based large-memory-storage super-smartphones KILLS that DSLR and even Mirrorless Interchangeable Lens Camera market dead! We all KNOW Canon and Nikon ARE coming out eventually with MIRRORLESS Canon Pro-level 5D/1D and Nikon D5/Zx series cameras and THEY WILL DO VERY WELL financially because THOSE brands are what the pros trust and will CONTINUE to buy and use! However, for John and Jane Q. Public, everything else in their camera lines is toast because of these new all-in-one super-smartphones which offer bigger bang-for-the-buck in a SINGLE device!
> 
> ...


Harry you always liven up the discussion. I've love to know if you sincerely believe all you write as much of it is from fantasy land. 
That doesn't mean you are always wrong.
Smart phones are becoming quite excellent and for most people they are very adequate for the job.
The computational photography is very clever. Video is especially good on phones.
I think 1 inch sensors and micro 4/3 gooses are cooked as phones can easily reach their level.
Multiple lens probably bring APS-C in range but I think they will continue to be the foundation level camera of amateur photographers.
Camera phones will be able to make great snaps but great photography needs a little more.
It will be a while before full frame is endangered. It might survive until brain implants take over.
I hope my storage device will be adequate for these brain implants. Already my optical drive is starting to malfunction leading to focusing issues.
i hope this is not a sign of future memory failures. I'll need all the storage capacity possible for the brain implants.


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## Don Macfarlane (Sep 1, 2019)

Down the road I'd like to see an M5 with an extended life battery or a battery pack. I have used my M5 for travel and city-scapes and have had great results with three M Lenses and a Sigma 18-300mm. The M6 II is interesting but I like a built in EVF. I also have an 80D which I use for wildlife and landscapes with a 70-200mm and 100-400mm. I have pre-ordered a 90D for the enhanced features.


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## stevelee (Sep 1, 2019)

Bob Howland said:


> Maybe you should ask all those photographers who (1) make money with their 7d2 and (2) are routinely focal length limited. 32 MP APS-C scales up to 82mp FF, but with that many pixels, getting 20 FPS might get expensive.
> 
> I didn't quote your needlessly insulting comments.


I have made more money using my T3i than from all of my other digital cameras combined. So obviously Canon abandoned the pro market when they discontinued that model.


----------



## Dragon (Sep 1, 2019)

TPatS said:


> Maybe canon is waiting on the 1D X mk3 as the product to launch IBIS in their DSLR lineup. Then maybe potentially a 7d3 with ibis a few months later in late 2020? Then in 2021 a 5d5? I'm just thinking that canon wouldn't waste developing ibis technology to only put it in the 1d line and a 7d seems like a fitting candidate for it. Then again numerous signs point to the 7d line being dead so it's rather confusing lol.



I can't see where IBIS is of that much use on 1DX. the camera is primarily used for sports with long glass that already has multi-mode IS and IBIS is beyond useless for panning shots. If the RS (or whatever it gets called uses the same pixel pitch as the 90D, it will be 83 MP and an awesome camera for portrait and wedding work. That camera will be used with standard and short tele primes with big apertures and it will need all the IS it can get, so I think that is the first place you will see IBIS.


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## 3kramd5 (Sep 1, 2019)

Dragon said:


> I can't see where IBIS is of that much use on 1DX. the camera is primarily used for sports with long glass that already has multi-mode IS and IBIS is beyond useless for panning shots. If the RS (or whatever it gets called uses the same pixel pitch as the 90D, it will be 83 MP and an awesome camera for portrait and wedding work. That camera will be used with standard and short tele primes with big apertures and it will need all the IS it can get, so I think that is the first place you will see IBIS.



By a wide margin the most used lens on my 1Dx is 24-70


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## Don Haines (Sep 1, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> On a technological basis all this bickering is pointless because this is all very much like the fairly fast switch-over from CRT (Cathode Ray Tube) television to FLATSCREEN LCD, LED and OLED HD television, where a newcomer technology (diode or plasma-based displays) simply STEAMROLLED over everyone else with a newer, better-looking, more economical and easier to manufacture technology.



And don’t forget physical size! All of a sudden you could have screens a few cm thick! You could also make them very large without insanely deep.

similarly, the phone has done the same to photography. All of a sudden, you have a camera in your pocket that you carry around everywhere. For the masses, they now have a camera that is good enough for most needs and that has been reflected in camera sales. The market for lower end cameras is evaporating. In the “good old days “, it was the Rebel cameras that drove sales, but are those days ending?


----------



## Del Paso (Sep 1, 2019)

flip314 said:


> What's Harry going to do with a brain implant? He'd need somewhere to implant it first.


----------



## unfocused (Sep 2, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> ...The market for lower end cameras is evaporating. In the “good old days “, it was the Rebel cameras that drove sales, but are those days ending?



I see it a little differently.The market for lower end cameras is definitely shrinking, but I am not sure it is evaporating. There are still a lot of people out there who aspire to an interchangeable lens camera. Most prefer a DSLR, which they consider to be a "real" camera. But in time, the demand for mirrorless could eventually outpace DSLRs, but I think it is too early to know for sure.

My sense is that interchangeable lens camera sales will eventually settle in to about the same percentage of the population that owned these cameras prior to the digital revolution. This was certainly enough to support a robust amateur market, but not at the volume and pace that we became used to over the past 15 years or so. That likely means a slower pace of innovation and a lengthening of time between major upgrades. But, at the same time, the technology is maturing, so it is only natural that the pace of innovation will slow.

I'm not sure how Canon and Nikon will handle this. Will we see annual or biennial releases of new models with slight modifications, or will we see updates once or twice a decade that have major changes?


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## sanj (Sep 2, 2019)

Does it have touch focus? Thx!


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## jbracy (Sep 2, 2019)

I heard that there is a 5DX coming out soon. Not sure how reliable the source is, but he works at a large electronics retailer in the Camera department and said that they had some training at Canon where they were told about it.


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## dslrdummy (Sep 2, 2019)

jbracy said:


> I heard that there is a* 5DX *coming out soon. Not sure how reliable the source is, but he works at a large electronics retailer in the Camera department and said that they had some training at Canon where they were told about it.


Meaning what exactly?


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## caffetin (Sep 2, 2019)

one is fact:canon has no mirrorless apcs and no upgraded lenses for apcs.what I think they will make new (after finishing rf)apcs lenses according to new apcs cameras.at least I hope.


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## afolickman (Sep 2, 2019)

I would like to see an updated EOS 5D.


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## Talys (Sep 2, 2019)

caffetin said:


> one is fact:canon has no mirrorless apcs and no upgraded lenses for apcs.what I think they will make new (after finishing rf)apcs lenses according to new apcs cameras.at least I hope.



Canon is sorely lacking in the armoured personnel carrier department, yes... I imagine most APCs have mirrors, though.


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## -pekr- (Sep 2, 2019)

koenkooi said:


> Trigger it optically with the built-in flash.



Cute. Just wonder, if it would work with high-speed and / or TTL flashes, as e.g. Elinchrom ELB 400 / 500, which normally need its own Skyport transmitter. Will have to check, as Eli studio strobes do have an optical bulb to get triggered that way ....


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## SecureGSM (Sep 2, 2019)

koenkooi said:


> Trigger it optically with the built-in flash.


And in run and gun situation and when traveling, you know, restaurant outings, leisurely good case for when you need a small camera with a small camera flash to bounce or just direct for infill?
Flash bracket! Oh, wait. Not a small setup anymore.


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## canonnews (Sep 2, 2019)

jbracy said:


> I heard that there is a 5DX coming out soon. Not sure how reliable the source is, but he works at a large electronics retailer in the Camera department and said that they had some training at Canon where they were told about it.


5DX or 1DX? A 1DX certainly is coming, a 5DX would seem .. "odd"


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## Memirsbrunnr (Sep 2, 2019)

Han said:


> How can I use an EVF with an external flash?


Hope thay an M5 mark II will come out


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## vangelismm (Sep 2, 2019)

Any chances they are considering do M50 II and M5 II into one product?


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## canonnews (Sep 2, 2019)

vangelismm said:


> Any chances they are considering do M50 II and M5 II into one product?


why would they? a M50 II would sell for half the price of the M5 II.


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## tron (Sep 2, 2019)

canonnews said:


> why would they? a M50 II would sell for half the price of the M5 II.


Correct! But then something similar can be said for 90D and 7DIII...


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## Sharlin (Sep 2, 2019)

tron said:


> Correct! But then something similar can be said for 90D and 7DIII...



And indeed they have not merged the 7D and x0D lines!


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## vangelismm (Sep 2, 2019)

canonnews said:


> why would they? a M50 II would sell for half the price of the M5 II.



Profit, sell the M50 mk II with higher price than it is supposed to be.


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## slclick (Sep 3, 2019)

tron said:


> Correct! But then something similar can be said for 90D and 7DIII...


Which are worlds apart....yet some here keep combining the idea of them together as if it came from Canon.


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## mikekx102 (Sep 3, 2019)

Gosh, where's my EF14mm F2.0 L lens?! Optimised for Astro


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## HarryFilm (Sep 3, 2019)

sanj said:


> Does it have touch focus? Thx!



YES they do have touch focus and all-touch menus! 

The screens are 2.7k resolution (IPS - with 2/3rds inch sensor and QS-845 cpu) and DCI 4K resolution (OLED - with APS-C sensor and QS-855 cpu) --- BOTH are big-batteried, ruggedized IP-68 waterproof and drop/crush resistant. That's all you need to know for now .....  

.
.


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## 12Broncos (Sep 3, 2019)

Sony is getting ready to make some noise. Canon's been making noise for a long time, can you hear the chirping crickets?


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 3, 2019)

12Broncos said:


> Sony is getting ready to make some noise. Canon's been making noise for a long time, can you hear the chirping crickets?


No, I don’t hear any crickets. Probably the gigantic feet of Canon’s dominant ILC marketshare squashed them into little bits of goo.


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## YuengLinger (Sep 3, 2019)

I think Canon is going to rethink its mirrorless commitment and start releasing some new primes with IS for the ef mount.  Maybe that ef 50mm 1.2L IS will be released in time for the Olympics, along with a 135mm 1.8L IS. And some zooms, say, finally, an ef 24-70mm f/2.0L IS for the rest of us. Happy Festivus!

Long live EF!


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## neurorx (Sep 3, 2019)

Another seemingly simple question...

My Canon EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II died this week from jumping out of my backpack onto a rather formidable piece of concrete after a football game. It would have been a much better eulogy if it had been a death by tackle
or something, but alas it was not. Yes there was a funeral and tears were shed. 

Although I’m still in mourning and shock my wife has encouraged me to move on. I’ve been trolling for used replacements as limping along for basketball and football season with my 100-400 mm II seems daunting. 
I’ll most likely be getting a new body next year but don’t know if it with be an R or 1D3.
A 5DX DSLR would make me very happy as I could delay the thought of changing out my lenses and purchase of an adaptor. 

A.
So would you stay the course and wait? Crank the ISO and graininess be damned!!!

Go for a Canon 70-200 II used as the 3’s lens coating didn’t make a big difference?

Go for a 70-200 III, you’ll need it for your next camera too.

Listen to the sirens of Sony and just get a second body/lens?

Yes my wife is extremely supportive of my expensive hobby.


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## Michael Clark (Sep 3, 2019)

Drcampbellicu said:


> I wonder if canon will up segment me by getting rid of the 7d series
> It’s possible that the 1D or some high speed R series might be the camera that best fits my needs but it will surely cost more than the good old 7d series
> 
> Any thoughts?







Michael Clark said:


> It's not just Canon. Nikon has already made it official that there will be no update/replacement for the D500 which is the same type of APS-C body optimized for sports/action/wildlife.
> 
> I think both companies hope they can steer those buying 7D/D500 bodies to use with expensive super telephoto lenses to full frame bodies like the 1D X Mark II and D5. What they don't seem to get is that many BIF photographers want the pixel density of the 7D Mark II/D500 only offered in FF bodies by the likes of the 5Ds/5Ds R and D850 while also keeping the frame rates of the 7D Mark II and D500. No one currently offers a FF camera with 70+ MP and 10 fps with continuous AF tracking between each frame.
> 
> ...


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## 12Broncos (Sep 3, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> No, I don’t hear any crickets. Probably the gigantic feet of Canon’s dominant ILC marketshare squashed them into little bits of goo.


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## 12Broncos (Sep 3, 2019)

The a9ii Beast is coming to kick some butt. It'll have a field day with the Nikon D6 DSLR Dinosaur. Maybe Canon will wake its sleeping giant to give the a9ii a run. It would be wise to wait until after Apple's announcements next week, to help ensure the camera shines in all its mirrorless glory. Hey, we can hope!


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## SecureGSM (Sep 4, 2019)

12Broncos said:


> The a9ii Beast is coming to kick some butt. It'll have a field day with the Nikon D6 DSLR Dinosaur. Maybe Canon will wake its sleeping giant to give the a9ii a run. It would be wise to wait until after Apple's announcements next week, to help ensure the camera shines in all its mirrorless glory. Hey, we can hope!


I detect a great deal of an AI personality in your style of writing. Are you a cognitive assistant?


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## 12Broncos (Sep 4, 2019)

SecureGSM said:


> I detect a great deal of an AI personality in your style of writing. Are you a cognitive assistant?


It's what think/hope will happen. You don't have to approve, I'm not bothered. However, to belittle someone because of their view is what is wrong right now with this country.


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## Michael Clark (Sep 4, 2019)

rbielefeld said:


> Mirrorless is getting really close to matching 1Dx type performance. I have been a Canon shooter since I was a kid, and I am now in my 50's. I shoot mostly birds in flight and other fast action. For me the 1DxII is the best bird in flight camera I have ever had the pleasure to shoot. But, if you have a chance, try a Sony a9. I now have one that I am shooting side by side with my 1DxII both with Sony and adapted Canon glass (e.g., Sony 200-600 and 400 2.8 with and without teleconverters and Canon 100-400 and 600 f/4 with and without teleconverters). The a9's performance is right up there with the 1DxII; very capable. No blackout EVF is pretty amazing as is the tracking AF. It is actually easier to track a BIF with the Sony because there is no 'stop action' affect from a flipping mirror as in the 1DxII. Overall, I would say the Sony a9 is very close and the soon to be announced a9II; well who knows. Me, I love all the innovation coming out from all the manufactures.  It is a great time to be a photographer IMO.



As long as you can afford the new stuff and don't actually need to get paid enough to cover the cost plus make a decent living, it is.


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## Michael Clark (Sep 4, 2019)

Dragon said:


> I can't see where IBIS is of that much use on 1DX. the camera is primarily used for sports with long glass that already has multi-mode IS and IBIS is beyond useless for panning shots. If the RS (or whatever it gets called uses the same pixel pitch as the 90D, it will be 83 MP and an awesome camera for portrait and wedding work. That camera will be used with standard and short tele primes with big apertures and it will need all the IS it can get, so I think that is the first place you will see IBIS.



It's also used by a lot of folks for reportage at all focal lengths and under all kinds of lighting conditions. It's even used by some full time wedding and portrait photographers who shoot at a pace that requires the durability and build quality of the 1-series.


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## SecureGSM (Sep 4, 2019)

12Broncos said:


> It's what think/hope will happen. You don't have to approve, I'm not bothered. However, to belittle someone because of their view is what is wrong right now with this country.



Let’s see. A response that reads as a meaningful sentence until you realise that wording is carefully constructed to be abstract enough to fit in almost any conversation. Can this be analysed? Your answer, please


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## YuengLinger (Sep 4, 2019)

neurorx said:


> Another seemingly simple question...
> 
> My Canon EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II died this week ...
> I’ll most likely be getting a new body next year but don’t know if it with be an R or 1D3.
> ...



I'm considering an R right now for portrait work; however, everything I've read about its EVF strongly suggests it isn't very good for sports. In fact, the feature which smooths motion tracking through the EVF, "_High Speed Display,_" is only available on RF lenses, not on EF lenses. _So, while an adapter does allow the use of EF lenses, the functionality in this case is not exactly the same._

Photographers who knows about this, who want to shoot action occasionally or often, I'd imagine, are hoping the next version of an RF mount body will have a better EVF for this purpose. Firmware update for the current R? No idea. I've heard that some other brands get around the problem by allowing a faster but lower quality display for action--so the tracking is faster. I don't really know much about this because I'm so eager to go with the new RF glass for portraits.

How I wish we could still walk into camera stores and just try a camera before buying it!


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## unfocused (Sep 4, 2019)

neurorx said:


> Another seemingly simple question...
> 
> My Canon EF 70-200mm F2.8L IS II died this week from jumping out of my backpack onto a rather formidable piece of concrete after a football game. It would have been a much better eulogy if it had been a death by tackle
> or something, but alas it was not. Yes there was a funeral and tears were shed.
> ...


Get a new or used EF mount. It will work with what you have and with whatever you buy in the future.


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## unfocused (Sep 4, 2019)

YuengLinger said:


> I'm considering an R right now for portrait work; however, everything I've read about its EVF strongly suggests it isn't very good for sports. In fact, the feature which smooths motion tracking through the EVF, "High Speed Display," is only available on RF lenses, not on EF lenses. So, while an adapter does allow the use of EF lenses, the functionality in this case is not exactly the same.
> 
> Photographers who knows about this, who want to shoot action occasionally or often, I'd imagine, are hoping the next version of an RF mount body will have a better EVF for this purpose. Firmware update for the current R? No idea. I've heard that some other brands get around the problem by allowing a faster but lower quality display for action--so the tracking is faster. I don't really know much about this because I'm so eager to go with the new RF glass for portraits.
> 
> How I wish we could still walk into camera stores and just try a camera before buying it!


Just rent one for a week. That’s better than trying to decide in 10 minutes in a store with a salesperson standing over you.


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## YuengLinger (Sep 4, 2019)

unfocused said:


> Just rent one for a week. That’s better than trying to decide in 10 minutes in a store with a salesperson standing over you.


That's not an unreasonable option. I do remember how camera store clerks seemed to be either clueless or impossibly arrogant (from the perspective of a newbie). Now I miss them!


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## YuengLinger (Sep 4, 2019)

SecureGSM said:


> Let’s see. A response that reads as a meaningful sentence until you realise that wording is carefully constructed to be abstract enough to fit in almost any conversation. Can this be analysed? Your answer, please



Or...Somebody who is on a bizarre crusade to promote Sony, or somebody who pops into various forums to be contrary, or somebody trapped in a fortune cookie factory and forced to post the same theme over and over, or somebody who wants to be a political gadfly and comes to tech forums to practice? That's my analysis!


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## koenkooi (Sep 4, 2019)

YuengLinger said:


> That's not an unreasonable option. I do remember how camera store clerks seemed to be either clueless or impossibly arrogant (from the perspective of a newbie). Now I miss them!



I wanted an R, but after renting an RP for a week I decided that it was "good enough" for me. Being able to use a camera for a week in your preferred setting is hard to beat as an evaluation.
I would also recommend downloading the manual and checking that the modes you want to use behave like you think. A while ago I rented the R + RF85 + RF50 and I switched it to a fully manual shutter. The portraits came out great, but the macro pictures with the 100mm L lens had a large enough shutter shock at 1/200s and 1/320s with flash to blur the hairs on a butterfly. Turning on EFCS fixed that. 

Putting the small AF point on the proboscis works very well: Butterfly


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## Ah-Keong (Sep 4, 2019)

Next would be the " 1DX iii " coming for the Olympics 2020
I hope the upcoming " 5DsR ii " or " 5D v " would have the specs of the Nikon D850.
by the way, where is the RF mount for 5DsR replacement ?


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## 12Broncos (Sep 4, 2019)

SecureGSM said:


> Let’s see. A response that reads as a meaningful sentence until you realise that wording is carefully constructed to be abstract enough to fit in almost any conversation. Can this be analysed? Your answer, please





YuengLinger said:


> Or...Somebody who is on a bizarre crusade to promote Sony, or somebody who pops into various forums to be contrary, or somebody trapped in a fortune cookie factory and forced to post the same theme over and over, or somebody who wants to be a political gadfly and comes to tech forums to practice? That's my analysis!


 I hope Canon announces a Pro Mirrorless camera soon.


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## rbielefeld (Sep 4, 2019)

Michael Clark said:


> As long as you can afford the new stuff and don't actually need to get paid enough to cover the cost plus make a decent living, it is.


Sell your older stuff to get the newer stuff. That is what I do. I got my a9 used for 2300 and a 200-600 costs under 2k. Then I adapt my already acquired Canon glass to the a9. Not an extravagant amount of new costs to try out a newer camera and lens IMO.


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## StoicalEtcher (Sep 4, 2019)

YuengLinger said:


> That's not an unreasonable option. I do remember how camera store clerks seemed to be either clueless or impossibly arrogant (from the perspective of a newbie). Now I miss them!


Yes: but those features are big part of why they are now on the demise (or gone altogether in many instances) - too many of them were not customer-friendly enough, hence why so many (newbie) customers are happy to buy from the 'net.


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## SteveC (Sep 4, 2019)

StoicalEtcher said:


> Yes: but those features are big part of why they are now on the demise (or gone altogether in many instances) - too many of them were not customer-friendly enough, hence why so many (newbie) customers are happy to buy from the 'net.



There are still some brick-and-mortar camera shops around; one here really takes care of me, whether it's a case of GAS or just making prints (at least they can alter the settings on their system, unlike Walmart).

But in most cases your choices are the web, Walmart or Best Buy. At Best Buy the sales rep is generally clueless but hasn't the integrity to ever answer a question with "I don't know." They'll make something up if they have to. Yuck.


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## StoicalEtcher (Sep 4, 2019)

SteveC said:


> There are still some brick-and-mortar camera shops around; one here really takes care of me, whether it's a case of GAS or just making prints (at least they can alter the settings on their system, unlike Walmart).
> 
> But in most cases your choices are the web, Walmart or Best Buy. At Best Buy the sales rep is generally clueless but hasn't the integrity to ever answer a question with "I don't know." They'll make something up if they have to. Yuck.


Yep: still some good ones around. Here in the UK I'm lucky enough to be looked after by Dale Photographic in Leeds - a Canon and Leica specialist - who manage to combine decent knowledge, excellent customer service, and still match most web-prices (ignoring grey market).


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## stevelee (Sep 4, 2019)

SteveC said:


> At Best Buy the sales rep is generally clueless but hasn't the integrity to ever answer a question with "I don't know." They'll make something up if they have to. Yuck.


Fortunately the sales guys at the Best Buy I go to are rather knowledgeable. If you go at times when there are several guys on hand, they will steer you to the one who specializes in the brand you are considering. The guy who sold me the 6D2 and the 16-35mm told me, when I bought the latter, that his photography business was picking up so much that he was cutting way back on hours in the store. He also expressed interest in hearing about my experience with the 6D2 when I would see him later.

When I was back there recently to look at the G5X II, the guy who helped me had helped me with something minor before, and I had gathered he knew what he was talking about.

The camera department at that store seems fairly well stocked with Canon and Sony gear, and I think a decent amount of Nikon, though I have not checked out the Nikons in a long time. Also, the web seems pretty good at letting you know what they have in stock. I think that store is trying to fill the vacuum from the demise of standalone camera stores in the area.


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## Michael Clark (Sep 5, 2019)

rbielefeld said:


> Sell your older stuff to get the newer stuff. That is what I do. I got my a9 used for 2300 and a 200-600 costs under 2k. Then I adapt my already acquired Canon glass to the a9. Not an extravagant amount of new costs to try out a newer camera and lens IMO.



That still does nothing for the fact that images one could sell for $500 15 years ago now go for $5, and Getty keeps half of that _and _you have to give them all rights.

I was mostly referring to the new RF glass, which is not cheap.

The need to always have backup bodies and lenses when shooting professionally also complicates the timing of things when changing systems. If your 200-600 went on the fritz what other long telephoto lens do you already own that would work on an α9?


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## McRphoto (Sep 5, 2019)

Eagle Eye said:


> I'm anticipating seeing the M5 Mark II announced in February 2020. I remember thinking in 2017 when the M6 was announced that Canon would have generally been better off announcing the M6 first and the M5 later. Obviously there were reasons for the decision, but my guess is those reasons pertained to factors no longer relevant. The rumors of the M6 Mark II replacing the M5 don't hold water. In the marketing materials for the Canon operations around the world, the M5 continues to hold the flagship position (except in HK, where it's no longer even listed). Canon USA would not have told someone that the M6 Mark II replaces M5 (even if it does) if Canon is going to continue to sell the M5 and market it as the flagship. Before someone says "Canon does everything for a reason," I point you to Canon Australia's YouTube error. DPReview either didn't understand the nuance of Canon's statement or Canon's agent misspoke, unless I see something concrete that says otherwise. There's also not a lot of point to some of the feature restrictions in the M6 Mark II if you're not going to position a camera above it. I would be surprised if Canon saw EOS M sales as a potential threat to the more lucrative R ecosystem, so with a flagship EOS M, they're really just building it to be a threat to competitors, particularly if the flagship EOS M comes in at a price point equal to the RP.


I totally agree. It doesn't make sense that the M6 MKII replace de M5. I think there's something special coming for the M5.


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## SteveC (Sep 5, 2019)

McRphoto said:


> I totally agree. It doesn't make sense that the M6 MKII replace de M5. I think there's something special coming for the M5.



I'll wildly speculate here: Maybe they are going to put out something that can (mostly) succeed the 7D line. (Obviously, if someone hates EVFs, they won't ever agree it's a replacement for their 7D, regardless of other specs.) The fact that it would be an M mount shouldn't matter as every single lens that works on a 7D will work on any M camera.


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## koenkooi (Sep 5, 2019)

SteveC said:


> I'll wildly speculate here: Maybe they are going to put out something that can (mostly) succeed the 7D line. (Obviously, if someone hates EVFs, they won't ever agree it's a replacement for their 7D, regardless of other specs.) The fact that it would be an M mount shouldn't matter as every single lens that works on a 7D will work on any M camera.



I've been thinking about that as well, and I can't decide what is more unlikely for Canon to do: A 'big' EF-M camera, or an RF APS-C camera. 
And furthermore, since I have both an M and RF camera, I can't even decide which one I would like best, a big camera that can also use the EF-M 32mm f/1.4, 22mm, 11-22mm, etc or an crop RF that can use those fancy new RF lenses.


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## SteveC (Sep 5, 2019)

koenkooi said:


> I've been thinking about that as well, and I can't decide what is more unlikely for Canon to do: A 'big' EF-M camera, or an RF APS-C camera.
> And furthermore, since I have both an M and RF camera, I can't even decide which one I would like best, a big camera that can also use the EF-M 32mm f/1.4, 22mm, 11-22mm, etc or an crop RF that can use those fancy new RF lenses.



The idea of taking the R mount and putting an APS-C sensor behind it doesn't make sense to me, to be honest. (However; I know that whether it makes sense _to me_ doesn't matter a heck of a lot.) On the other hand, APS-C cameras really ought to get some truly awesome lenses, so coming up with L lenses for the M mount would be fantastic. It's as if Canon has a built-in mentality that APS-C is for the non-serious photographer, who simply won't be interested in top-end lenses, or a huge variety of them. Of course, you have access to some pretty darned good lenses with the M mount--they just need that adapter.


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## jbracy (Sep 5, 2019)

canonnews said:


> 5DX or 1DX? A 1DX certainly is coming, a 5DX would seem .. "odd"


I’m just saying what I heard. That the update to the 5D m4 would be called the 5DX. Seems like Canon don’t like to go to a Mark 5. Similar to how the 1DX was an update to the 1D m4.


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