# Filters - Screw on or not ?



## Haydn1971 (Jul 6, 2011)

Bought myself a handful of Cokin (P) filters last year, along with the holder and respective step rings for my lenses. I've found the whole system a bit of a pain to use quickly, especially after getting a screw in 10 stop filter last month which is a breeze to use. Got me thinking about what others used... Yes, the Cokin system is cheap, I can use any filter on any lens, but what use is a flexible system if you don't actually use it ?

I'm now considering getting a handful of ND/GND screw in filters to join my 10 stop specifically for my current most used "landscape" lens, the 72mm 15-85mm EF-S. I'm unlikely to be buying loads of lenses in the future, there is a slim likelihood of getting a 77mm 70-200mm (f2.8) at some point, but then I'm not adversed to buying the odd ND specifically for that.

I'm typically using the 0.9 ND or 0.6 GND, 95% of the time I'm using filters, and hardly use the polarising filter.

So, what do others do, use, are screw in GND's a pain, thoughts please ?


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 6, 2011)

Haydn1971 said:


> after getting a screw in 10 stop filter last month which is a breeze to use



Screw-in filters are much more convenient. One approach is to get filters in the largest size you'll use (perhaps 77mm), then get step-up rings so you can mount them on lenses with smaller diameter threads. I tried to follow that plan, several of my lenses use a 77mm filter, so I have 77mm ND filters (B+W #103/3-stop and B+W #110/10-stop), and a 77mm KÃ¤semann CPL, and also 67→77mm and 72→77mm step-up rings so I can use the 77mm filters on primes with smaller filter threads. One caveat is that a step-up ring sometimes precludes the use of a hood (not always - for example, I can put a 77mm filter on my 85L and still mount the hood, but not the 35L or 135L). But that only goes so far - I have a couple of lenses with 82mm threads, for which I have an 82mm KÃ¤semann CPL, but there are no 10-stop screw-in ND filters as far as I can tell. Also, for use with the 'holy trinity' primes I generally only need a 3-stop ND for wide open portrait shots outside, so I have just a 72mm B+W ND #103/3-stop for that, so I can use the hood with the 35L and 135L.



Haydn1971 said:


> So, what do others do, use, are screw in GND's a pain, thoughts please ?



Screw-in graduated filters are just as convenient as any other screw-in filter from a practical standpoint. However, from an artistic standpoint, I'd recommend staying away from screw-in filters for grad NDs. The problem is that the dividing line (hard or soft) is smack in the middle of the filter - exactly where you usually _don't_ want to place your horizon line. So, with a screw-in grad ND, your composition options are more limited than a rectangular filter, where you can slide the dividing line up and down as needed.  

From a convenience standpoint, you can often skip the holder for your grad NDs - assuming a typical use (landscape shot from a tripod), many people simply hand-hold the rectangular filter in front of the lens for the shot.


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## motorhead (Jul 6, 2011)

I use a screw in polarising filter and Cokin GND filters, often at the same time. You are right that its not exactly convenient so I tend to ignore the Cokin filter holder. I set up the polarizing filter for the effect I want, then simply handhold the GND filter close to the lens. That way I can adjust anything quickly should I feel the need.

More often than not I have the camera on a tripod when doing this.

I cannot imagine how a screw-in GND filter will ever be correctly positioned. The whole point is that the filter can be moved up and down and also tilted one way or the other as needed.


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## gferdinandsen (Jul 6, 2011)

The problem I have with Cokin filters (Split ND) is that you are putting a very cheap piece of plastic infront of a $1500 and up lens, IQ can be significantly diminished. I use a B&W split ND and while I cannot change where the split occurs, at least the filter is on par with the lens.


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## dr croubie (Jul 6, 2011)

I'm another screw-in user, and i've got the whole range of step up
21-37-52-58-62-72-82 and back down again, for everything from pinhole, lensbaby, niftyfifty, efs15-85 to 250mm f/3.5 Medium Format.
I've only got 2 CPLs, 72 & 58mm to match my efs 15-85 and 70-300nonL at the time (which i've since sold), with all the rings i can use them on any lens, and the rings cost less combined than the 58mm CPL did.

I've checked for size, but haven't bought the ring yet, that i can mount the 72mm CPL via a step ring on my 70-300L with the hood on, but i've also confirmed that i have to screw the step-ring onto the lens *after* putting the hood on, and will have to unscrew it before removing the hood to reverse it for the bag.


sometimes, it does get annoying the time it takes to screw/unscrew filters, last time i was at a zoo i just left the CPL on the whole time, didn't even take it off to go inside, just put up with the loss of light for a few shots (which were only memories, not portraits for enlargement).
but then, i've never used the cokin, can't comment on the time it takes for them, but probably just as long or worse. i'd be heading for cpl (i know you said you don't use them though) and ND in screw-in plus rings, the cokin-for-grad-nd arguement makes a bit of sense, i'll keep in mind i'll have to buy into that system if i ever want to go for them...


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 6, 2011)

gferdinandsen said:


> The problem I have with Cokin filters (Split ND) is that you are putting a very cheap piece of plastic infront of a $1500 and up lens, IQ can be significantly diminished. I use a B&W split ND and while I cannot change where the split occurs, at least the filter is on par with the lens.



You can get better quality rectangular filters. Lee makes good ones, Singh-Ray probably does too, if you can swallow their hype. Both Lee and Singh-Ray are resin filters (like Cokin) but much better optical quality. 

Many people aren't aware that Schneider Optics (the parent company of B+W Filters) makes rectangular grad NDs from Schott glass. They offer a 2-stop (0.6) soft-edge which comes in a nice kit with a two-filter holder and a 77mm adapter ring (B&H link). The holder will also work with their entire line of 4" wide glass filters (square and 4x5.65", ND, grad ND, Pol, soft focus, color correction, etc.) - that line is known as the MPTV (motion picture television) series - here's the manufacturer link, you can find many of them available from B&H.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 6, 2011)

Thats where the old Hasselblad FC lenses with the bayonet mounting system for lens accessories was convenient. Just one quick twist on or off. The paint wears away very quickly though, so a lens looks used before its time.

BTW, the images showing the bayonet were taken with a Hasselblad 60mm Distagon and adapter on my 5D MK II. I love that smoooooth manual focus.

Unfortunately, my Hasselblad system is going away to raise money for new equipment.


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## triggermike (Jul 6, 2011)

I have had, and others have shared a similar experience with, noticable color problems with Cokin ND filters. Their stronger ND's tend to create "purple" color casts. The graduated filters seem better, but the solid ND's are not true ND. Not knocking Cokin overall, or rectangular filter systems, just had poor exoeriences with the solid ND series.


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## JimKarczewski (Jul 7, 2011)

Since I've started using the Cokin Z filters I will never go back to screw ons again. I have 3 adapters, 58, 77 & 82 which fit every lens I own. 

That being said, I do own a 105mm B+W CP for going on the front of the Cokin Z holder thanks to the Lee adapter.

As someone else mentioned, I've heard the same thing about full Cokins having color issues. Thankfully I picked up a 3 pack of Lee's Polyester filters, hell, if Joey L uses them on his pimped out Mamiya 645 digital, figured I could too. That and a set of Cokin 4x6 GND are all I've needed lately.


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## ronderick (Jul 7, 2011)

Looks like there's quite a number of people here who uses both kinds of filter types.

In my case, I have the B+W CP filters for screw-ons; on the other hand, for filters I use less often (such as ND or other fancy kinds) I leave it to Cokins. Again, the affordable price encourages you to try out ones you'll probably never think of trying if they're placed at B+W level *shiver*.

I've heard good things about Lee filters, but have yet to see one appear in my office. I won't mind trying it out... but would they fit Cokin filter holders, or would I need to invest $$$ for Lee filter holders?


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## motorhead (Jul 7, 2011)

I know we drifting away from the original question, but I use the Cokin GND filters and have always been happy with the colour rendition. In fact Amateur Photographer did a test of the market a few years ago and every one they tested, from every manufacturer, caused colour casts of one type or another. Cokin were actually the best of the bunch, better than other, more expensive "Gold Standard" filters.

To be frank, any slight colour shift from whatever filter manufacturer, is easy to correct when post processing.


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## triggermike (Jul 7, 2011)

The color rendition issues were with the Cokin solid ND's not the GND's and especially with the 2 and 3 stop versions. We're not talking about a slight variation here - we're talking about a full purple/magenta cast which is not easily addressed in post processing including RAW files. A quick internet search will provide plenty of examples with side-by-side comparisons which demonstrate the issue clearly.
I have many Cokin filters as well as B+W, Hoya, etc. and have no problems with them except these.


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## JimKarczewski (Jul 8, 2011)

The Lee are cheap... due to the fact they are polyester. $99 gets you .3, .6, .9 that fit in the Cokin Z or Lee holder... which is about $20 cheaper (3 x $41) than the Cokin Z versions... 

I occasionally use the full size of my GND for extra stops, but really anticipating the Lee Big Stopper to come back into stock sometime soon.


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## Eagle Eye (Jul 8, 2011)

I'm going to get kicked to the curb for saying this, but in my opinion graduated neutral density filters are done. I had a nice set and sold them along with things like the enhancing filter. Lightroom Tres does the work for you in post-processing without degrading your image with another piece of glass to filter light through. For polarizers and ND, the two filters I still can't do without, I stick with B+W. The quality is unbeatable and they will last forever. The filters are very thin for screw-on, and won't cause any vignetting on the 15-85mm. NDs are available in a very wide range. Plus, they come in a plastic box. Who doesn't love plastic boxes??


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## JimKarczewski (Jul 8, 2011)

I wouldn't say kicked to the curb, but I whole heartedly disagree with you. There are things (especially light skys and dark foregrounds) I'd never trust to my raw processing engine. I've tried in the past, which is why I bought my GND filters. But hey, to each their own... Everyone has their methods...


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## motorhead (Jul 8, 2011)

Jim,

I have to agree with you. Manipulation in post processing has its place, but I much prefer to get as close to my pre-conceived image as possible in-camera. I find getting realistic skies very difficult to achieve after the event, I believe because our brains are rejecting clues we have not even really noticed.


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## Haydn1971 (Jul 11, 2011)

Tried a bit of handheld grad filter yesterday, worked out easier now I've got a screw in polariser, but given my big clumsy hands, I'm finding that handholding a Cokin P in front of a 15-85mm at a wide zoom is a tad difficult, especially with the thin edges of the Cokins. Cheers for the earlier comments !


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## JimKarczewski (Jul 11, 2011)

Hayden-

I even have issues with my Cokin Z on a 16-35 Canon (full frame) my big a$$ fingers manage to make their way into the frame on the very edge... Unfortunately I haven't solved that issue yet (when hand holding at least!)


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## Canon 14-24 (Jul 11, 2011)

JimKarczewski said:


> Hayden-
> 
> I even have issues with my Cokin Z on a 16-35 Canon (full frame) my big a$$ fingers manage to make their way into the frame on the very edge... Unfortunately I haven't solved that issue yet (when hand holding at least!)



Cokin Z is rated to about 20mm I believe on FF or mostly good for those lenses 24mm+

Need to jump to the bigger and more expensive Cokin X series for ultra wide angle or 15mm+


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## Stu_bert (Jul 31, 2011)

Personal preference, but I have the B+W UV to protect, then Lee filters for the other - I leave the adapters on the lenses all the time and use Lee lens covers to protect from dust etc. Not sure if this is possible on other systems (e.g. screw), but you can independently rotate 2 filters on one of the Lee holders, so you can adjust perhaps for a bright sky, and perhaps tame a bright element in the foreground which needs a different angle. 

90% of my filter needs is done by Grads (the rest is Circ or ND). I've done hand holding, but for long shots in the cold it's a little more awkward so I prefer to remove the gloves, add the filter/holder and then I can normally tweak with the gloves still on.

For the 10 stop ND, I could not work with the B+W ones as I'm always fine tuning composition (angle & zoom), so screwing on a filter at the end did not work for me.

Horses for courses, but prefer filter holders / drop in filters. The Lee glass filters are supposed to have less colour cast, but tbh, not really noticed a strong one on their resin ones.


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