# Two More 5D Cameras Coming? [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Apr 14, 2015)

```
A recycling of past rumors has made its way around again, this time talking about a direct replacement for the EOS 5D Mark III, as well as a cinema version for the 5D line.</p>
<p>First up, the Canon EOS 5Dc. <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2015/02/possible-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-spec-talk-cr2/" target="_blank">These specs first appeared back in February</a>.</p>
<ul>
<li>18MP</li>
<li>61 point AF system</li>
<li>ISO 100-204.800</li>
<li>4k video (source says Canon has yet to define the frame rate)</li>
<li>Dual Pixel AF III</li>
<li>Many advanced video features</li>
<li>Features taken from Canon’s Cinema cameras</li>
</ul>
<p>Second up, the EOS 5D Mark IV. <a href="http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_5d4.html" target="_blank">This megapixel count first appeared in March</a>.</p>
<ul>
<li>28MP sensor</li>
<li>12fps</li>
<li>Dual Pixel AF III</li>
<li>New and more advanced AF system (compared to EOS 5D Mark III), apparently it will not be the same AF as the 5D Mark IVc</li>
<li>Anti-flickr technology (seen first on the EOS 7D Mark II)</li>
<li>Crop mode (featured on the EOS 5Ds)</li>
<li>ISO 100-204.800 (expandable to 409.600)</li>
</ul>
<p>Before the EOS 5DS & EOS 5DS R launch, we had heard there would be 3 cameras carrying the “5D” moniker, and we assumed the EOS 5DS “R” was one of the cameras. However, in the last few months, there has been talk that the EOS-1D C would be replaced by a 5D style cinema DSLR camera. If the EOS 5Dc rumor is true and it’s priced in the $3500 range like all of the “5D” cameras, that would make the XC10 & C100 Mark II tougher sells than they already are.</p>
<p>This is interesting to say the least, but we can’t confirm how likely this set of rumors is.</p>
<p>Source: [<a href="http://www.canonwatch.com/cw4-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-coming-as-2-versions-5d-mark-iv-mark-ivc-28mp-vs-18mp/" target="_blank">CanonWatch</a>]</p>
```


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## Big_Ant_TV_Media (Apr 14, 2015)

8) ???
so canon
is goin too dice up or (niche) up all there cameras
too please all these 4k video cry babies
instead putting a much as they can in 1 body smh
if thats not an APPLE business model then i dont know what is
hoping for 20-28mp
dual digic 6+ or 7
1080-4k video
10-12fps
SD and Cfast slots
and better dynamic range
and DPAF (dual pixel auto focus 3)
even cleaner images thru all the iso and better low-light


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## IsaacImage (Apr 14, 2015)

Interesting what type of AF system it's going to be ?
And how different from 7d mk II


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## Maximilian (Apr 14, 2015)

Nice time for nice rumors 

Lets wait until the [CR2 to 3] specs appear...


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## photonius (Apr 14, 2015)

BigAntTVProductions said:


> 8) ???
> so canon
> is goin too dice up or (niche) up all there cameras
> too please all these 4k video cry babies
> ...



I think it's rather technological limitations/trade-offs which forces them down this route.


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## CTJohn (Apr 14, 2015)

My head is spinning with all the "5D" models. Sounds like car companies.


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## K-amps (Apr 14, 2015)

Canon watch write up suggests the c version gets the 15 stop DR. If so and they don't give landscapers / 5div the requested mp + dr then my patience will finally run out..... I thought the new 5d3 replacement would be a 810 slayer....


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## johntorcasio (Apr 14, 2015)

If these are the correct spec's for the 5D IV , Then i can't wait to see what Canon have for the 1DX replacement??


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## K-amps (Apr 14, 2015)

CTJohn said:


> My head is spinning with all the "5D" models. Sounds like car companies.



+1. Their mkt department is driving the 5d badge into brand fatigue..... They are losing it. Don't they have other numbers to use?


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## sanj (Apr 14, 2015)

johntorcasio said:


> If these are the correct spec's for the 5D IV , Then i can't wait to see what Canon have for the 1DX replacement??



Absolutely.


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## InterMurph (Apr 14, 2015)

BigAntTVProductions said:


> too please all these 4k video cry babies


I guess I'm one of those crybabies.

Frankly, the "I don't do video, therefore nobody should care, and therefore Canon shouldn't care" crowd has won the day. Canon hasn't advanced the quality of its DSLR video since the 5D2 in 2008. Canon has effectively abandoned the video users; you have won.

But I do both stills and video. Until recently, I used a pair of 5D Mark IIIs for both. I recently bought a pair of Sony A7s cameras for video, and I couldn't be happier. The image quality is miles ahead of the 5D3; the Sonys are much sharper, and can effectively see in the dark. The results are stunning.

The attached image is a frame from a video I took of a poorly-lit school play. I had the A7s on auto-ISO (another miracle), so I don't know exactly what the ISO setting was. But when I took stills of another performance, I was at ISO 5000 to 8000.

It would be great if the 5D4 had comparable video quality. That would allow me to use a single camera for stills & video, and it would allow me to ditch the Metabones adapters for my Canon lenses. I really hope for a 5D variant that can compete with the A7s.

But if you don't care about video, please just ignore the video-focused cameras that may or may not come. Canon is taking care of you, I promise.


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## K-amps (Apr 14, 2015)

It's also interesting that CR guy giving this a CR1, and canon watch gives it cw4. Which is closer to our 2.5


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## FTb-n (Apr 14, 2015)

12 FPS and ISO 204,800 -- 2 stops higher than the 1Dx? I can't see Canon introducing this while they still have the 1Dx in stock and before the 1Dx Mark II is out.

Also, with 5d3 prices dropping closer to $2,000, I've got to wonder if the 6D Mark II while inherit current 5D3 specs?


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## tss68nl (Apr 14, 2015)

FTb-n said:


> 12 FPS and ISO 204,800 -- 2 stops higher than the 1Dx? I can't see Canon introducing this while they still have the 1Dx in stock and before the 1Dx Mark II is out.



Max ISO (native or expanded, you dont even know) doesn't say anything about the achieved image quality at that particular ISO. You can't draw any conclusions based on that.

It's good to see video and stills split into two camera's. I hope the prices can be competative due to leaving out functions that most of us don't need. Videographers don't care for stills technology, and vise versa. There are only very few percentage wise that want both. Seems Canon finally gets it.


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## Takingshots (Apr 14, 2015)

I'm doing both video and stills (20%video/80%stills). I believe Sony is now leading with the A7s on video and small format. How soon will Sony come to bring up with one FF camera with a balance for both video and stills supremacy is only a matter of time. So Canon has to come up with something fast for this combo and not so bulky.. That is $$$$ question?


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## mackguyver (Apr 14, 2015)

FTb-n said:


> 12 FPS and ISO 204,800 -- 2 stops higher than the 1Dx? I can't see Canon introducing this while they still have the 1Dx in stock and before the 1Dx Mark II is out.


I agree and if these are the specs, it makes you wonder if this is actually a new 1D body, but without the battery grip. In those interviews with the 1D series engineer last year, he said that the ideal 1D camera would be in this body style. Either that, or they will announce the 1D ___ at the same time and it will have some crazy fast frame rate and top ISO.


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## bluemoon (Apr 14, 2015)

mackguyver said:


> FTb-n said:
> 
> 
> > 12 FPS and ISO 204,800 -- 2 stops higher than the 1Dx? I can't see Canon introducing this while they still have the 1Dx in stock and before the 1Dx Mark II is out.
> ...



like this?
http://www.canonrumors.com/2015/01/global-shutter-coming-to-canon-dslrs-cr1/

pierre


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## gsealy (Apr 14, 2015)

Hmmm. . . I doubt if I buy either one of those cameras if the specs are correct. If I want something that only shoots video, then I will go with a cinema camera that has complete video features. If I want something that only shoots stills, then I would go to the 5DSR as it would offer the greatest resolution (I have no need for a high frame rate or real high ISO). I was expecting basically an improved 5DIII offering that would provide the ability to do both 4K video and stills. I like versatility. All of this says to me, "Keep my money and wait. There is no need to go to 4K just yet, and the pictures I take with my 5DIII are just fine."


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## Respinder (Apr 14, 2015)

BigAntTVProductions said:


> 8) ???
> so canon
> is goin too dice up or (niche) up all there cameras
> too please all these 4k video cry babies
> ...



Not sure what you mean by the "Apple" comment - Apple has been so successful because they minimize the amount of SKU's they have in the market - think about the iPhone and how many model types they have (currently the newest 6 and 6 Plus which is the same as the 6, just a larger size) - now compare that to Samsung, Blackberry and other companies who have dozens of different SKUs which just confuse the consumer.

That said, I think Canon is making a terrible mistake here by subdividing the 5 moniker into a series of cameras. There still is no camera between the 1 and the 5 series - wouldn't it make more sense to release a dedicated series of camera called the 3C - keep it video oriented but give it enough specs that it will satisfy the photographer as well. Of course, calling it the 3C would also eliminate the need for Canon to make this a three-dimensional (3D) camera.

It is pretty clear that from recent products - particularly the iPhone (phone, camera and music) - that consumers prefer a convergence option as opposed to different products that do specific things.


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## InterMurph (Apr 14, 2015)

gsealy said:


> There is no need to go to 4K just yet


There is no need, but there is a huge advantage.

I just shot a school play with two A7s cameras. I set one for a very wide shot of the stage and more, and I operated the other for closeups. I recorded the wide shot in 4K on an Atomos Shogun monitor/recorder, which allows me to crop and pan as necessary. When I need to see the entire stage, I crop a tiny bit. When I need a closer shot, I crop more.

The results are fantastic, and something you just can't do properly without 4K.


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## gsealy (Apr 14, 2015)

InterMurph said:


> gsealy said:
> 
> 
> > There is no need to go to 4K just yet
> ...



I definitely agree with you regarding framing. No question. I agree with your setup and approach. I am thinking in terms of absolute need versus the changing and prices of technology. 4K is not yet at a point where it is an absolute must. So I can live in the short term with what we have. When we shoot video we usually have 3 and maybe 4 cameras being used. So I can get the variation I need. It has worked out well. In the meantime I am continuing to monitor camera features and price points. We'll see.


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## ahsanford (Apr 14, 2015)

I could see Canon's 5D line moving to a three sensor approach like Sony has:


The lowest resolution / best high ISO rig --> like the a7s. Dedicated videographers would go for this. This would be the '5D C' rig we've heard some rumors of.


The "very good at everything" rig --> like the a7 (or a7 II) or possibly the Nikon D750. This would surely be the 5D4.


The highest resolution / worst high ISO rig --> this is your great studio (or tripod) mega detail camera. That camera exists today, and they are the two 5Ds rigs.


What I am _*not*_ buying in this rumor is a 12 FPS-rated 5D camera body. Not going to happen unless that performance is in a cropped mode. The 5d line represents a lot of things to a lot of people, but a blistering framerate is not one of them. I don't see a future 5D stealing any thunder from the 1DX or 7D2 camps.

- A


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## gdanmitchell (Apr 14, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> First up, the Canon EOS 5Dc...



That name is going to mess with all the folks who like to call the first 5D-series camera the "5DC," or 5D Classic. ;-)


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## mackguyver (Apr 14, 2015)

bluemoon said:


> mackguyver said:
> 
> 
> > FTb-n said:
> ...


Exactly!


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## PureClassA (Apr 14, 2015)

I had wholly expected the 1DX2 to be the replacement for both the 1DX and 1DC. While I still think that will happen, this notion of model dedication seems to be reaching a bit too far, depending of course largely how true this rumor is (and it's a CW4 at CanonWatch....) and just what dedicated video features they would cram into a 5DC .... which I can't imagine it being too much because of the "Really Makes No Sense" $5500 C100 Mk II. Tell me why I would spend that much money for a 1080p camera with so many other 4k options in that range... and now even further with a 4k 5DC (with Digic DV chips I'd wager instead) at presumably $3500-$4000 like the rest of the 5 series? Granted It wont have the connections and monitor and EVF of the C100 II.... but still... Will it record internally? So many head scratching, confusing moves here. And while I realize this is a rumor, you have to admit it's pretty plausible given Canon's own statements about model specialization. 

So I if you want an all around 5 body weighted to stills, it's the 5D4 with the old sensor technology. If you want one for video, it's the 5DC with the new sensor technology. If you want High Resolution for awesome studio and landscape, get a 5DS/R (with or without OLPF) but you get the old sensor tech. If you want great all around for both stills and video, get a 1DX2 with the new sensor.

Head is spinning. All these models are being released in 2015 (we hope), so why the A.D.D. on the sensor tech? Buying a 5DSR now seems to give me pause. If they have that sensor, why not on this camera. to get all that extra DR, I'd be fine with 2-3 FPS. How fast do you need when landscaping in most scenarios anyway?

I seriously am starting to wonder if Canon product R&D is just several disassociated groups at HQ all working in separate caves with no inter-communication. "Hey! Cinema/Video guys get the new toys with all the DR! But you stills guys who have been making all the noise about it get the finger! LOL!" Explain this...

Given the recent unveiling of the C300II sensor tech, the question needs to be posed sooner than later to someone up the Canon food chain as to why this didn't/couldn't be in the 5DS.


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## riker (Apr 14, 2015)

> Not sure what you mean by the "Apple" comment - Apple has been so successful because they minimize the amount of SKU's they have in the market - think about the iPhone and how many model types they have (currently the newest 6 and 6 Plus which is the same as the 6, just a larger size) - now compare that to Samsung, Blackberry and other companies who have dozens of different SKUs which just confuse the consumer.
> 
> That said, I think Canon is making a terrible mistake here by subdividing the 5 moniker into a series of cameras. There still is no camera between the 1 and the 5 series - wouldn't it make more sense to release a dedicated series of camera called the 3C - keep it video oriented but give it enough specs that it will satisfy the photographer as well. Of course, calling it the 3C would also eliminate the need for Canon to make this a three-dimensional (3D) camera.
> 
> It is pretty clear that from recent products - particularly the iPhone (phone, camera and music) - that consumers prefer a convergence option as opposed to different products that do specific things.



Sooo agree, u just typed my opinion lol!


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## Act444 (Apr 14, 2015)

May be in the minority but I like the segmentation....to a point. 

The video guys get their camera...the high res studio guys get their camera...and for the rest of us, there will be the option to either stick with the 5D3 or move up to the 5D4. 

Of course, the downside is for those who want it all - might need multiple bodies now. Even for me, I don't do video, so don't care about video features...but sounds as if the video cam might have the best high-ISO performance(?).


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## Dylan777 (Apr 14, 2015)

28MP sensor + 12fps + Dual Pixel AF III and assuming the price tag is around $3500, this could make current 1Dx looks little less attractive.

If that the case, my CR1 says 1dx II will be able to shoot @ ISO100K free noise in low light - native ISO. OVF is filled with Double-dual cross pts and will be slightly faster @ 20fps :


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## riker (Apr 14, 2015)

Oh dear, this is soooo gone wrong. 

In the first place, 1Dc, C100, C300, C500...and now even XC10 and 5Dc WTF?!?!?!?
And then they make 5Ds, 5DsR, 5Dmk4, 5Dc?!?!?! Is this a comedy? Where are the hidden cameras? Coz this must not be for real.

OK Canon, here is what you will do: just cut the crap and
- make 5Ds and 5DsR into ONE product (as Nikon already figured this is better)
- make 5Dmk4 and 5Dc into ONE product, a 28MP real low-light performer camera with advanced video features
- forget 1Dc and C100
- make C300 and C500 into ONE product
- make XC10 as small and versatile as possible and make every 3rd party manufacturer support like hell so it becomes a de facto camera for anyone who is wishing for something more advanced than a gopro for action, drone, underwater and every possible special application

And you know you can keep the billions of dollars this advice has saved you, I just want to love you again like in the old times before you started bullshitting ((((

Oh by the way, what about previous 1Ds users?!?!? You abandoned all of them. The people who bought your most expensive camera, mostly professionals, were left behind! They spent shitloads of money on a camera for a reason. They needed resolution AND the features of EOS 1 body. After 7.5 years they still do not have a proper upgrade!!! They either have to give up resolution or the famous EOS 1 body. WTF again?!?!?
So you get that 50MP sensor (or one that is at least around 35-40MP) and put it in a EOS 1 body, name it 1D Xs or whatever! Make a damn flagship camera because currently you do NOT have one! Just make a camera that is the wet dream of every photographer and then you are free to price it whereever you want, $6000, $7000, $8000? It doesn't matter because it's worth it if someone can pay that price. And let's admit, most professionals who really make their living in photography will not care either, just as 1Ds was widely purchased despite the price. Beacuse that and only that was THE professional camera (and later 1D also).
Your professional camera has 18MP and the prosumer camera has 50MP ))) I'm still searching for the hidden cameras, I'm sure I'm in some kind of joking show.


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## riker (Apr 14, 2015)

Uh oh, btw this so beats the crap out of C300mk2 at third the price.

https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicursamini


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## Random Orbits (Apr 14, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> 28MP sensor + 12fps + Dual Pixel AF III and assuming the price tag is around $3500, this could make current 1Dx looks little less attractive.
> 
> If that the case, my CR1 says 1dx II will be able to shoot @ ISO100K free noise in low light - native ISO. OVF is filled with Double-dual cross pts and will be slightly faster @ 20fps :



+1. Replacement of the 1Dx will be better than the 5D4. It's not really fair to compare across generations.


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## RLPhoto (Apr 14, 2015)

I don't see 12FPS on a 5D series body. Maybe 8Fps, and why dice up all these features when they should be in one camera. This doesn't make me want to buy any one of them.


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## ahsanford (Apr 14, 2015)

RLPhoto said:


> I don't see 12FPS on a 5D series body. Maybe 8Fps, and why dice up all these features when they should be in one camera. This doesn't make me want to buy any one of them.



Agree. If this rumor is (broadly) true, it would appear that Canon has done the following thinking:

1) For eye-popping performance in one metric, another metric must suffer. Use MP count vs. high ISO performance, high MP count vs. burst rate, etc. -- there are hosts of these tradeoffs.

2) So how about we offer different cameras that kickass in different metrics by overloading that metric as it's principal _raison d'etre_: a camera built for low-light/video, a camera built for speed/buffer/AF, a camera built for maximum detail, etc.

3) Market the crap out of each as the 'Perfect thing for people like X' (videographers, landscapers, event shooters, etc.)

And you have a glut of FF offerings that are hyper-specialized. The weird bit is that _this appears to be Sony's FF business model and not Canon's_. If this rumor is (broadly) true, why would Canon do this? Is it the only way they can compete on the spec front? Have they actually been losing enough customers that the 'Pricey but 9 out of 10 at everything camera' business model must be abandoned?

- A


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## K-amps (Apr 14, 2015)

Am I the only one that feels, that in the past 1-2 years, many Landscape shooters might have moved to The 810, the A7r or even the 645z..... Why would Canon not make a body that has a high mp and that has good DR? Landscapers will be ok with 1fps and 1 af point.... This 5ds with the same DR as the 5d3 seems like a half baked product... The concept is fine as is the shutter drive and other vibration control features, but why use old Tech noisy sensor?


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 14, 2015)

It's weird that CW gives a high CW4, from a known source that has been right a lot in the past, and CR sticks with CR1 for it. How reliable is CW when it goes to CW4?


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## ronlane (Apr 14, 2015)

I am really excited to see what the 5D mk IV specs will be. At 28 mp and 12 fps, that would seem like an amazing camera.


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## ahsanford (Apr 14, 2015)

K-amps said:


> Am I the only one that feels, that in the past 1-2 years, many Landscape shooters might have moved to The 810, the A7r or even the 645z..... Why would Canon not make a body that has a high mp and that has good DR? Landscapers will be ok with 1fps and 1 af point.... This 5ds with the same DR as the 5d3 seems like a half baked product... The concept is fine as is the shutter drive and other vibration control features, but why use old Tech noisy sensor?



That's the $64,000 question, of course: was expanding the 7D2 pixels over an FF sensor* the best way forward for Canon?

_[*please pardon the lack of sensor know how / terminology here, I'm referring to Maeda-san's comments that we should expect the same pixel-level performance with the 5Ds as the 7D2]_

Whether it's right or wrong, the 5Ds/R rigs would appear to be 'good light' cameras where you can control the light (i.e. studio) or you're on a tripod (i.e. landscapes). That apparently was Canon's fastest high MP response. Will it get flogged by DXO? Youuuu betcha. Does that subset of Canon folks screaming for a high MP body care about that? Probably not.

I'm still waiting for the 9 out of 10 at everything FF camera in the 5D form factor. The 5Ds/R rigs, on paper, are not that rig, but I await reviews to that effect. But right now, I'm clearly in the 5D4 camp and would prefer improved resolution but not at the cost of lessened high ISO performance.

- A


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## ahsanford (Apr 14, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> It's weird that CW gives a high CW4, from a known source that has been right a lot in the past, and CR sticks with CR1 for it. How reliable is CW when it goes to CW4?



Not very. CR has a very good track record on CR3 rated items -- but you only get those a week in advance of announcement, usually.

CW re-circulates a ton of content from other sites. I don't think they have as strong sources like CR, Northlight, etc. do.

- A


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## RGF (Apr 14, 2015)

too bad cameras don't come out once a year (like cars use to). Then we could compare models and decide.

Like to compare the 5D M4 vs 5Ds before spending $.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 14, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > It's weird that CW gives a high CW4, from a known source that has been right a lot in the past, and CR sticks with CR1 for it. How reliable is CW when it goes to CW4?
> ...



Yeah CW has tons of garbage re-circulated, but do they ever give that stuff CW4?


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## ahsanford (Apr 14, 2015)

RGF said:


> too bad cameras don't come out once a year (like cars use to). Then we could compare models and decide.
> 
> Like to compare the 5D M4 vs 5Ds before spending $.



Agree, but I think it depends on what you mainly shoot. 

Just my thoughts on this:


Wildlife/birders/sports should choose the 7D2 or 1DX (or it's replacement) depending on their budget, range to target and their personal level of pixel-peepery. Dense, fiery threads on this topic fill the annals of this forum -- I shall not start an argument either way on crop vs. FF.


Studio folks, portraiture, landscapers, product/macro people should give the 5Ds rigs a try, one might think. If you are shooting in low ISO due to controlling/generating light or can shoot ISO 100 on a tripod, _why not avail yourself of all that detail?_


'I shoot a little bit of everything' people, events folks, low-light handheld shooters, astro people, reportage, photojournalism, concerts, people who live in a non-light-generatable / _got-to-get-this-shot-right-now-with-whatever-light-is-here_ should probably ride out the 5D3 until the 5D4 comes. It just does everything well. (If video is just a portion of what you do, you'd probably be in this bucket as well.)


If you are budget constrained and/or don't want to pay extra for a higher end AF setup of the aforementioned rigs, the 6D (or it's eventual follow-up) would be a fine call. That's a solid rig if you don't have picky or demanding AF needs.

That's just my read. Others will certainly vary. 

Since I rarely shoot video, can't speculate there. I'm sure there's a similar tier-ing of the different models on that front.

- A


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## sanj (Apr 14, 2015)

JS5 said:


> The pissing contest continues regarding the megapixel BS !
> Billboards were made on 4 megapixel cameras back in the day and nobody cared... Sure the files are wayyyy better the color etc... do we need 50 megapixels ? the answer is NO ! What we need is cameras to sync at 8000th of a second ! We do not care about programs or even the meter, professionals use only manual and use a hand held meter, I wish canon made a model that had some 20 something megapixels, 10 frames a second, sync at at least 2500th of a second and it had one mode MANUAL ! Forget TTL and all that crap ! Hey Canon how about a camera much like a Hasselblad 501 for the ones that are actually making images not taking them ?



Funny.


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## Dkocher (Apr 14, 2015)

> Anti-*flickr* technology (seen first on the EOS 7D Mark II)


Really?


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## ahsanford (Apr 14, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > What I am _*not*_ buying in this rumor is a 12 FPS-rated 5D camera body. Not going to happen unless that performance is in a cropped mode. The 5d line represents a lot of things to a lot of people, but a blistering framerate is not one of them. I don't see a future 5D stealing any thunder from the 1DX or 7D2 camps.
> ...



Not if the DR or high ISO is a nice bump over the other models. 28 MP + 2 stops better high ISO performance would be a killer rig, even at 6 fps.

Keep in mind that we should be expecting a _decrease_ in usable ISO range / more high ISO noise with the 5Ds compared to even the 5D3. So I'm fully expecting the 5D4 to dust the 5Ds rigs from a high ISO standpoint.

- A


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## Tinky (Apr 14, 2015)

I have a feeling that the c100mk2 is a firmware upgrade away from 4k, if not internally, then via a recorder. It is a 4k capable sensor at the end of the day. Maybe a future purchase upgrade ala the AF?

An SLR is no match for a properly designed camcorder ergonomically. For many that will be more important that a format that broadcasters aren't rolling out yet.

Not everybody is shooting for movie screens. And I doubt that very many target c100 or 5D users are. Not saying none.


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## gsealy (Apr 14, 2015)

riker said:


> Uh oh, btw this so beats the crap out of C300mk2 at third the price.
> 
> https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicursamini



I agree, this is a game changer.


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## Mantadude (Apr 14, 2015)

If this is true, I will be stoked!

I find it interesting that all the photographers out there are hammering canon to make a dedicated camera for photography and not video. Now they appear to be doing it, and people don't like it. 

I for one love that it appears they are modeling the line after the Sony line. I am personally interest in the Video on the DSLR. I am unique in that I do underwater video so my needs are different than most. I would have moved to the Sony A7s, but 3 things are deal killers for me. 1. Can't WB underwater well (Canon is so ahead of the game here it isn't even close. 2. Have to use an adaptor for lens 3. No internal 4k.

If this 5dC comes true, then that addresses everything for me. Go Canon!


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 14, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



Umm yeah if it bumped up the DR and so on sure that would be killer even at 6fps, absolutely! But I said, if it DIDN'T get the new chip, and had the same old 2007 performance, then it would need something like the 12fps to make it exciting no? So the 12fps might not be crazy since the rumor hinted that it might have an old sensor possibly. If it has the new sensor, then yeah, 12fps seems unlikely.


----------



## cayenne (Apr 14, 2015)

riker said:


> Uh oh, btw this so beats the crap out of C300mk2 at third the price.
> 
> https://www.blackmagicdesign.com/products/blackmagicursamini



OMG...I'm drooling.

Ok, I may keep my 5D3...for 2nd video camera (especially when I finally get around to putting ML n it for RAW video)....and stills.

And save my pennies for this BM camera. Wow...all it can do for $3K (for the 4K resolution one)...wow.


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## RGF (Apr 14, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> RGF said:
> 
> 
> > too bad cameras don't come out once a year (like cars use to). Then we could compare models and decide.
> ...



Thanks for the thoughts. 

80% wildlife / birds - I have both 1Dx and 7D2.

rest is a mix of landscapes and macro with cityscapes either when traveling or checking out Chicago (learning new type of photography) for which I use 5D M3.

Almost no street photography or portraits.


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## SPL (Apr 14, 2015)

gdanmitchell said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > First up, the Canon EOS 5Dc...
> ...


Not related to the new 5D bodies in the future, but,…I just like that gdanmitchell is joining us! His images are fantastic!!


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## zim (Apr 14, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> Second up, the EOS 5D Mark IV. <a href="http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_5d4.html" target="_blank">This megapixel count first appeared in March</a>.</p>
> <ul>
> <li>28MP sensor</li>
> <li>12fps Anything between 7 and 12</li>
> ...



and the little af selector collar like the 7D2

Please Canon just please.... where is the drool icon when you need one ;D


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## ahsanford (Apr 14, 2015)

zim said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > Second up, the EOS 5D Mark IV. <a href="http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_5d4.html" target="_blank">This megapixel count first appeared in March</a>.</p>
> ...



If we're 5D4 wishlist-ing, I'll take the spot-metering-at-any-AF point like the 1D series, and the 7D2 in-viewfinder level would be great. And bring back manual focusing screens, perhaps? :

- A


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## charlesa (Apr 14, 2015)

A lot of rumours flying around, but little to no substance.


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## Sporgon (Apr 14, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> And bring back manual focusing screens, perhaps? :
> 
> - A



I think there is a fair chance this will happen. The 7D didn't have one, apparently due to the transmissive lcd, yet the 1Dx has the same thing and does. Likewise with the 5DIII. Maybe it's cheaper to implement now, but the 7DII has both the interchangeable screen and transmissive lcd, so I would guess the 5DIV will as well. I cannot for the life of me see why a 7DII would have an interchangeable screen, given that cameras target, and the 5DIV not.


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## Big_Ant_TV_Media (Apr 14, 2015)

Well as I mentioned canon 
is taking the apple business and hardware route
Bka the niche route (different hardware for different folks)
"Possibly" sub dividing the 5D Line,1D line and the rebel line via the (T6i and T6s & etc)
If there will be a 5D4 and 5DC it will be more wasted $$ 
and r&d time and longer waits for products to hit shelfs come October/Nov I fully suspect come a new 7D Mark 3 and or 80D replacement time they divide them up as well
This becoming annoying forums consumers and pros who either wait and use our new or old gear still they breakdown or die switch too Nikon and Sony. 
Some people have the patience too wait some don't. 
I mentioned 4k cry babies because everybody wants the latest hottest gear or hardware yet 9/10 people can't see the difference in 1080p-4K video all they notice is a price difference. 
Do any of u who want 4k have the TV/lcd too watch/play it?? 
or the hard drive space too store/play these massive files??
I'm aware YouTube now supports 4k but what are the legit uses and advantages of it?? 
Again I'm hoping the 5D mark 4 specs are
Dual digic 6+ or 7 processors
8-12fps (most likely 10 like the 7D 2)
SD and CfAst slots
Better overall ISO performance and low light
Even better weather sealing 
And maybe find a way for wifi?
Also crop mode???


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## Tugela (Apr 14, 2015)

BigAntTVProductions said:


> 8) ???
> so canon
> is goin too dice up or (niche) up all there cameras
> too please all these 4k video cry babies
> ...



Rumour has it that the 5D4 will have 1080p video, so it will drop out of the video shooters market (they will have far superior hybrid options from other companies). Your wish will be fulfilled.

Canon would have to be brain dead stupid to abandon that market to the competition however, because that is where the future is, so producing a dedicated camera with hybrid features appropriate to a forward thinking product is a smart option. Leaving the legacy deadend 5D4 to the atavist Dodos so they will quit impeding progress is a good thing IMO


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## zim (Apr 14, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> zim said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...



+1 especially linked spot metering


----------



## Tugela (Apr 14, 2015)

InterMurph said:


> BigAntTVProductions said:
> 
> 
> > too please all these 4k video cry babies
> ...



I gave up on Canon and bought a NX1 after the crushing disappointment of the 7D2. Fantastic camera, I have no regrets at all. I can switch from shooting amazing stills to shooting glorious video at the touch of a button, rather than being forced to lug two completely separate camera systems around. Products like the GH4 and NX1 are the vanguard of the future, while Canon and Nikon's cameras are holdouts clinging to the past.


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## joejohnbear (Apr 14, 2015)

Great posts by Ahsanford. I agree with everything you've said. Canonrumors is right to label this as CR1, and Canonwatch is pretty hit or miss. Those complaining about rumors and the direction Canon is going in are too funny to acknowledge. Bodies come and go, and my experience shooting video with the Black Magic Cinema camera is that they're better on paper than shooting in real life. Leave it to Canon to get stuff right IRL. I may pick up the 5DIV or 5DIVc or C100 mark i (cheap!) sometime in the near future simply because Canon lenses are the shit (70-200ISII > 70-200VRII, 16-35ISL > 16-35VR) and metabones speed adapters are expensive and leak light anyways.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 14, 2015)

BigAntTVProductions said:


> I mentioned 4k cry babies because everybody wants the latest hottest gear or hardware yet 9/10 people can't see the difference in 1080p-4K video all they notice is a price difference.



The difference is trivial to spot! If you can't see then you are maybe far-sighted? Sit 30' away from your screens?



> Do any of u who want 4k have the TV/lcd



Personally, yes and more and more do in general. Plus, even if you don;t know, everything you capture now will look much better when you do get one in the future. Plus it can be used to produce super-duper quality 1080p. Be used to help stabilize 1080p fruther in post. Be used for panning and re-cropping post. A true 2x TC effect for distant wildlife footage when put back to 1080p. etc.



> or etc or the hard drive space too store/play these massive files??



They are hardly that large and they are actually very small compared the actually giant files that those using ML RAW have to deal with.



> I'm aware YouTube now supports 4k but whey are the legit uses and advantages of it??



Looks far better??? Instead of looking like something captured it starts getting more that you are really looking at something look to it. It's particular nice for nature and landscape videography.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 14, 2015)

joejohnbear said:


> Bodies come and go, and my experience shooting video with the Black Magic Cinema camera is that they're better on paper than shooting in real life. Leave it to Canon to get stuff right IRL.



Like not even give basics like zebras or manual focusing aids during live shooting etc .etc. not even on a 12k 1DC? that is getting it right and providing a superior shooting experience? (Hopefully this rumor is hinting that 5D4c will get it right this time though.)

Also, the looks of these new BM beasts make it seem like they have polished up the shooting experience tons (yeah it remains to be seen but it sure looks promising).


----------



## joejohnbear (Apr 14, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> BigAntTVProductions said:
> 
> 
> > I mentioned 4k cry babies because everybody wants the latest hottest gear or hardware yet 9/10 people can't see the difference in 1080p-4K video all they notice is a price difference.
> ...



I actually like 4k video, and I do like 2k downscaled or clean video from the C100/C300 cameras instead of from Canon DSLR. However, 4k video doesn't play very smoothly on my Intel Iris 5100 over Youtube on state of the art corporate internet, so I agree with others that it not everyone can see it. I do agree with you that future proofing is great like shooting 70mm film in the 60's and restoring it in 2015. However, I don't see a problem with it being out of reach of consumer cameras in the $500 dollar range. I think it'll get there when it gets there in the 5DIV, and if not by then, there are tons of options from the A6000 and C100 with reduced rolling shutter.

I don't however for a second think that amateur photographers who are just dicking around with video trying to capture their kids with their DSLR's know what they're getting themselves into. DSLR's for video were a pleasant mistake, and rolling shutter will always be a problem. Better that people get dedicated camcorders instead of fussing around with XLR adapters and magic lantern. The ones who can compromise understand reality, the ones who complain do so without fully understanding that professionals live within the constraints of technology. I love the A6000 and A7S image quality, hate their ergonomics and would rather go with a FS700 or C100 or C300 any day of the week. If you can't afford it, consider a different hobby or going with a cheaper or alternative camera and that you will need to spend more dollars to bring a still photo DSLR or ILC up to feature parity with a dedicated video camera (GH4, LX100, A6000, A7S etc require external video recorders, audio recorders, variable ND filters or ND filter sets, external monitors, etc etc. In addition, video has separate expenses, like lavalier mics, fluid monopods, fluid heads, leveling tripods, cranes, stabilizers, sliders, scrims, continuous lights, so I don't get the sudden confusion from consumers thinking that it's unfair that Canon separated their DSLR and cinema lineups. At $5000 for the original C100, yes, complain, but $3000 for the reduced price, if you're actually serious about video and want to keep your lenses, get the C100. If your budget is low, get the GH4 or the A6000 and and make do with purchasing additional audio recorders and syncing sound.


----------



## joejohnbear (Apr 14, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> joejohnbear said:
> 
> 
> > Bodies come and go, and my experience shooting video with the Black Magic Cinema camera is that they're better on paper than shooting in real life. Leave it to Canon to get stuff right IRL.
> ...



Yes, I agree, I do want Zebras and focusing peaking. I do understand that I would get a C100 instead of a 5DIII anyways for the reduced rolling shutter if I was shooting video professionally. I do hope that Canon boosts the video features in the 5DIV. If they charge more for it, it would be fair as long as they put those basics. The 1DC is now 8k, fyi. I'd rather get the 1DX and C100 for the same price separately if I had to buy now, fyi. $5200+$3000 = a steal.

I hope so. The Black Magic Cinema had a disgusting Twisted Neumatic (TN) display that was inaccurate as hell and focus peaking just simply didn't work on eyes and faces with f/1.4-f/2 lenses for some reason. Ergonomics were off-the-rockers bad. It didn't even have a histogram! How can you have a camera with a bad screen and not have a histogram/fancy video equivalent?!


----------



## K-amps (Apr 14, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> gsealy said:
> 
> 
> > riker said:
> ...



Did you guys see the heatsink on the BMUrsa? Its massive... its not going to fit in a 5D body... so no wide DR video... even if the used the same sensor.... it would melt. Maybe stills might be ok at 15 stops but they will need to reduce fps for wide DR mode. Do it maeda Do it!


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## K-amps (Apr 14, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> If we're 5D4 wishlist-ing, I'll take the spot-metering-at-any-AF point like the 1D series, and the 7D2 in-viewfinder level would be great. And bring back manual focusing screens, perhaps? :
> 
> - A



My kids Canon point and shoot SX50 HS has AE linked to AF point, its shameful that the 5d3 does not...


----------



## joejohnbear (Apr 14, 2015)

K-amps said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > If we're 5D4 wishlist-ing, I'll take the spot-metering-at-any-AF point like the 1D series, and the 7D2 in-viewfinder level would be great. And bring back manual focusing screens, perhaps? :
> ...



My D700 had AE linked to AF point as well. I better switch back to Nikon because...haha, who am I kidding? I'm sticking with Canon because of the lenses. 5D4 will hopefully take care of it. If not, 1DX is $5200! Cheaaap.


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## ahsanford (Apr 15, 2015)

jayt567 said:


> As a long time Canon user...about 14 years, without a substantial investment other than a couple lenses and a flash who is ready to purchase a new camera, Canon is making it very difficult not to go with another brand. I am only a hobbyist, but I know my way around a camera pretty well. I want a camera with a 50d type body, not a toy made out of plastic that I can barely fit in my hand. The 7d would be an option but think I would like to go full frame as I don't need the speed (6-7 fps is plenty) and would like to be able to do some night sky photography. Video and 4k mean nothing to me. Image quality, dynamic range and better high ISO performance does.The 6d is just too stripped down for me and there seems to be no replacement in sight. And the 5d is priced out of my range. I love the feel and layout of the 7d type bodies. Rumors suggest a price hike on all full frame Canons down the road which makes me feel like Canon has turned it's back on the skilled photographer who does not get paid for it. Very much would like to stay with Canon, but In my opinion they have nothing to compete with the d610 or d750 in terms of features or price. I have actually put off buying with the hope that Canon would come out with a d610 killer but am tired of waiting for something that seems will never come. Not a fanboy, just feel a bit let down by recent offerings.



Yep. You're out of luck. It's 'hope the 5D3 price plummets after the 5Ds rigs come out', or wait for a 6D2. 

That Nikon D750 is loved -- not liked -- by the Nikon faithful. It's basically a Frankenstein of the D610 and D810, grabbing some low and some high level features -- a "5.5"D if you will. Given Canon's absurd pricing (5D3 is nearly 2x the price of the 6D), one could argue that Canon has a _price point / feature set gap_ that needs to be addressed *more* than the (seemingly in the cards) specialization split to video/low light vs. all-around vs. high MP that we keep hearing about.

- A


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## funkboy (Apr 15, 2015)

So, does 5Dc have an FF sensor or Super-35 size?

If it's FF, I'd love to see an 18MP super-sensor in the 6D II <grin>


----------



## joejohnbear (Apr 15, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> jayt567 said:
> 
> 
> > As a long time Canon user...about 14 years, without a substantial investment other than a couple lenses and a flash who is ready to purchase a new camera, Canon is making it very difficult not to go with another brand. I am only a hobbyist, but I know my way around a camera pretty well. I want a camera with a 50d type body, not a toy made out of plastic that I can barely fit in my hand. The 7d would be an option but think I would like to go full frame as I don't need the speed (6-7 fps is plenty) and would like to be able to do some night sky photography. Video and 4k mean nothing to me. Image quality, dynamic range and better high ISO performance does.The 6d is just too stripped down for me and there seems to be no replacement in sight. And the 5d is priced out of my range. I love the feel and layout of the 7d type bodies. Rumors suggest a price hike on all full frame Canons down the road which makes me feel like Canon has turned it's back on the skilled photographer who does not get paid for it. Very much would like to stay with Canon, but In my opinion they have nothing to compete with the d610 or d750 in terms of features or price. I have actually put off buying with the hope that Canon would come out with a d610 killer but am tired of waiting for something that seems will never come. Not a fanboy, just feel a bit let down by recent offerings.
> ...



5D3 is $2500. D750 was $2300 until just a few days ago (price slashed by $300). Before then, there wasn't that much of a difference, and that's why I didn't pick one up as a backup body (and I'd have to buy more lenses on top of that).


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## Jose (Apr 15, 2015)

I've always been a canon user, starting with film and entering digital with a 20d, then a 5D and currently a 5DIII. I was hoping for a 5DIV with 2-3 more DR and a pixel count as close as posible to the 36mpx that both nikon and sony offer. I want a camera that will allow me to lift shadows of photos taken in contrasty conditions without showing banding and awful noise If that camera would be coming I would keep the 5D III as a backup and add to my lenses lineup a 17TS, 16-35 f4, 27-70 2.8II and a 100-400 IS II to replace the 16-35 2.8, 24-700 2.8 and the 70-200 2.8, keeping only the 24TS.
It appears that is not going to happen it seems that the dynamic range improvement is going to be left for the video version. If they have the technology I don't understand why we have to wait for the 5DV and by then I wonder what sony sensors will be producing.
Now I'm debating with path to go nikon or sony. Are there lenses comparable the canon I wanted to buy in either brand? Is there an adaptor to use my 24ts with a nikon body? If I go nikon I'll be getting a D810 and a D750 as Backup.


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## ahsanford (Apr 15, 2015)

joejohnbear said:


> 5D3 is $2500. D750 was $2300 until just a few days ago (price slashed by $300). Before then, there wasn't that much of a difference, and that's why I didn't pick one up as a backup body (and I'd have to buy more lenses on top of that).



I never compare the D750 to the 5D3. Apples and oranges in their respective FF tiers. 

But consider the value proposition of a D750 over a _D610_. Previously (Sep 2014), there was a chasm between the D610 at $1900 and the D810 at $3000. People who wanted just one killer better _something_ (burst, buffer, AF, etc.) were staring at a "Sure, you can get that... for another $1,100" proposition. It's not unlike 6D vs. 5D3 when the 6D was first offered. The 6D is a fine camera, but some niceties were reserved for a 5D3 rig that was some $1400 more expensive.

What did Nikon do? They made the following sales pitch to its customers: _"Hey gang, want 2/3 of what's in the D810 for only $400 more than the D610? Sure you do. C'mere."_

I don't know the exact recipe of of the low and the high features that made the D750, but if memory serves, they reserved the top end MP count and 1/8000 shutter for the D810, but the D750 got a ton of the top end features, including the AF system and only 0.5 fps slower max burst. That's a strong value proposition, and people have taken them up on it.

So joejohnbear, I'm not advocating the D750 is a better camera than the 5D3 -- that depends on what you shoot. But I am arguing that Canon might want a rethink on splitting their market into [low MP / great low light] + [all-around solid] + [high MP / poor low light]. Perhaps it should be [good] + [better] + [best].

- A


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## SlydeR (Apr 15, 2015)

I know which one I want...but the wait is killing me


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## privatebydesign (Apr 15, 2015)

funkboy said:


> So, does 5Dc have an FF sensor or Super-35 size?
> 
> If it's FF, I'd love to see an 18MP super-sensor in the 6D II <grin>



The Super 35 size is much smaller the a ff sensor at 24.89 mm × 18.66 mm, around half the size. Why would you want that in a 6D MkII?


----------



## Tinky (Apr 15, 2015)

Sporgon said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > And bring back manual focusing screens, perhaps? :
> ...



http://www.katzeyeoptics.com are gearing back up for a relaunch now that manufacturing supply has been sorted.

If anybody can do it (and do it better than Canon) they can.


----------



## gregory4000 (Apr 15, 2015)

Black Magic just introduced the URSA Mini 4.6K with 15 stops of dynamic range.
This is shooting with a 12 mp sensor. If Canon is introducing a 5DC within the year, it would make sense that it would carry a few features that video shooters are hungry for. Especially, considering that were going to have to settle with this model for an additional 4 to 5 years.


----------



## privatebydesign (Apr 15, 2015)

gregory4000 said:


> Black Magic just introduced the URSA Mini 4.6K with 15 stops of dynamic range.
> This is shooting with a 12 mp sensor. If Canon is introducing a 5DC within the year, it would make sense that it would carry a few features that video shooters are hungry for. Especially, considering that were going to have to settle with this model for an additional 4 to 5 years.



At $6,500 for the 4.6K version with viewfinder. Lets see how many people are interested in a 5DC at >$6,000.


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## Ozarker (Apr 15, 2015)

It is going to be so nice to just buy a 5D mkIII near the end of summer. Bargain price and awesome stills capability. I'll be happy. Then I can just focus on glass... which is more important to me. While it is going to be fun watching what new bodies Canon creates over the next 5 years... I will be at peace. I hope. *slight twitching ensues*


----------



## roccosaya (Apr 15, 2015)

OMG, I'm getting soooo sick of Canon. Are you kidding me? Canon is too busy trying to protect their high end cinema cameras, and aren't innovating nearly enough. They really expect people to buy 3 or 4 different camera models now? I am heavily invested in Canon glass, but if this is even remotely true, It's a very sad day. On top of it all, the 5DS is rumored to have poor dynamic range (equivalent to 5d mark iii) ...

Meanwhile, I have a Sony A7R that's 36 megapixels, and the IQ destroys 5d mark iii. Granted, I cannot use the A7R for action shots and overall the A7R is a terrible "operating camera" but it puts out remarkable IQ. 

Canon is going to start loosing droves and droves of people. Like I said, they are too busy protecting their high end cinema cameras, and each year give us everything BUT better image quality. 

GRRRRR


----------



## roccosaya (Apr 15, 2015)

On that note, can I ask you a question? I have the metabones IV adapter for Sony A7R. It always randomly goes to F0, and I can't shoot unless I turn the adapter from the body of the camera and back on (as if I was unmounting it) ... I have been in contact with Metabones, and they say they are working on a firmware update to fix the problem, but it really has me very angry. It's been seven months, and this issue has not been solved. Do you have this problem? 

Thanks. 



InterMurph said:


> BigAntTVProductions said:
> 
> 
> > too please all these 4k video cry babies
> ...


----------



## 3kramd5 (Apr 15, 2015)

roccosaya said:


> They really expect people to buy 3 or 4 different camera models now?



I doubt that's in their strategy. If it is, they would be well advised to re-staff that population of their executive wing. 

Rather, I think they're trying to build more configurations with much the same constituent parts in order to offer a wider product line and many land more customers, as opposed to the same number of customers buying multiple varieties. Whether it works, time will tell.

Regardless, it's a bit silly to "get sick of canon." Who really cares what a company does? If they offer products you want, buy them. If they don't, don't. It's pretty simple.



roccosaya said:


> Meanwhile, I have a Sony A7R that's 36 megapixels, and the IQ destroys 5d mark iii.



I too have both of those cameras. I don't think the Sony to be so significantly better than when I take a picture with it some sort of torpedo shoots out and immolates my 5D3. There are situations where it can be a little better, and it gives me a little more margin for error on exposure, but the advantages of the 5D are such that I use the A7R sparingly. YMMV.


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## M_S (Apr 15, 2015)

As I said in the other thread: I was hoping that they do it right this time. And with right I mean resolution on par with the 810 (both have less now), way better DR (seems ok), 4K with 60fps (just for one of the cameras with the lowest pixelcount), 12fps for stills (ok), and above all: IN ONE BODY! 
But instead they seem to split up the line...again...and do it worse and confusing. It is still a rumour, but this is not good. If that would be true, I will definitly look elsewhere for my 5d Mark III replacement camera. Downgrade to APS-C Samsung NX1, FF Nikons or Sonys come to mind.


----------



## joejohnbear (Apr 15, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> joejohnbear said:
> 
> 
> > 5D3 is $2500. D750 was $2300 until just a few days ago (price slashed by $300). Before then, there wasn't that much of a difference, and that's why I didn't pick one up as a backup body (and I'd have to buy more lenses on top of that).
> ...



I just compared them because of the value / price proposition. I actually hate the way Nikon is segmented. They're same mp, three different mid-mp bodies with consumer controls and segmentation (no af-on button, 1/4000 shutter, sd card only, etc), two low-mp bodies in either super expensive full size body or super expensive retro, and one large megapixel, poorish low-light. The D810 is probably the best all-around camera balancing megapixels and low-light compared to the 5DSR, but you're stuck at 36 megapixels as their sRAW is more inefficient at saving space on a card.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Apr 15, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> funkboy said:
> 
> 
> > So, does 5Dc have an FF sensor or Super-35 size?
> ...



I think by "super sensor" he meant the high-DR sensor, not a super-35. Hence why asking if the high-DR sensor in the rumored 5Dc was to be FF.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 15, 2015)

I, for one, would love to buy 5D Mark IV just for the "Anti-Flicker" alone because I shoot many boys/girls Karate and Volleyball games. 
Even though I already have 7D Mark II which has Anti-Flicker, I really want a Full-Size sensor camera like 5D Mark III with Anti-Flicker so I can use high-ISO without noises.
Personally, I can't wait 5D Mark IV.

Even then,

I don't think Mark IV will be released anytime soon. 
Mark III is highly complete and still top-of-the-line middle class Full-Size camera. People still buy it after three years since it's original release.

Plus, 5Ds/R is coming. If I'm the president of Canon, I would not release Mark IV while people still talking about 5Ds/R.

Next year is the Olympic year. I'm sure Canon will put 1DX Mark II on the market.
Maybe after that, the 5D Mark IV will come.

Don't get me wrong, I really want 5D Mark IV! lol


May the EOS be with you.


----------



## kirbyzhou (Apr 15, 2015)

disappointment, still missing WiFi


----------



## cayenne (Apr 15, 2015)

kirbyzhou said:


> disappointment, still missing WiFi



You know, I work in the IT industry...and I'm firmly of the mind that not everything needs to be connected to the internet.<P>
With the lack of security on most consumer and even prosumer level products, I'd just as soon not have something out that is just asking to be hacked by some script kiddie.<P>
Talk about something ruining your day, you get out..shoot and some kid on a cellphone borks your entire camera or erases your cards. Fun, eh?


----------



## gsealy (Apr 15, 2015)

joejohnbear said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > BigAntTVProductions said:
> ...



Some good thoughts here. My perspective is that 4K is really great and it does have some advantages as pointed out above. But in reality the 'must have' public demand is not there yet and the infrastructure is not there yet (bandwidth and so on). People who work in video see the differences, but most people do not or don't care. They have not been exposed to it very much. We know that it WILL happen, but it hasn't happened yet. 

At the same time, the technology to support 4K is changing fast. We see new products every few weeks. And the price points are changing fast too. We see a Canon C300 come out at about $15K and the next week we see a BlackMagic URSA mini come out at $5K. There are DSLR alternatives too. 

So given the 4K is not an absolute must yet in terms of public demand, and given that technology and associated prices are changing so fast, then why should I invest in it right now? My answer is to not spend one penny on it. I am going to continue to monitor the technology developments as they come about. I am going to read the reviews. Probably in the next 24 months or so things will begin to settle down. At some point 4K video will be as common place and as cheap as HD is now. I won't wait that long, but for now what I produce with HD is perfectly fine and best yet, it is paid for.


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## gsealy (Apr 15, 2015)

CanonFanBoy said:


> It is going to be so nice to just buy a 5D mkIII near the end of summer. Bargain price and awesome stills capability. I'll be happy. Then I can just focus on glass... which is more important to me. While it is going to be fun watching what new bodies Canon creates over the next 5 years... I will be at peace. I hope. *slight twitching ensues*



IMO this is an excellent strategy. The 5DIII is a great camera. At the same time, spending money on lens is a good idea. A great lens makes every camera that you have better. They also survive the cameras that come and go.


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## ahsanford (Apr 15, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> Even then,
> 
> I don't think Mark IV will be released anytime soon.
> Mark III is highly complete and still top-of-the-line middle class Full-Size camera. People still buy it after three years since it's original release.
> ...



Absolutely agree. The 5Ds rigs' place at the top of the 5D pecking order needs to be protected to maintain that high asking price. (Personally, I think that maintaining that price is more a matter of how long Canon holds a 50 - 36 MP leading position over SoNikon than if a 5D4 is competing against it, but hey.)

The 5D4 will not be out for some time, next year at the soonest. I think we'll see the next 1D body or bod_ies_ (if they split that unifying 'X' line into speed and detail versions like they had before) before we see the 5D4.

- A


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## RGF (Apr 15, 2015)

roccosaya said:


> Meanwhile, I have a Sony A7R that's 36 megapixels, and the IQ destroys 5d mark iii. Granted, I cannot use the A7R for action shots and overall the A7R is a terrible "operating camera" but it puts out remarkable IQ.
> 
> GRRRRR



I would like to see a A7R II or perhaps Magic Lantern rewrite the firmware. Then the camera would be a winner


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## 3kramd5 (Apr 15, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> A curious thought:
> 
> OK so say reading dual-gain takes 2x the processing so they can do 18MP dual at 12fps or 28-32MP at 12fps old style. First, is 6fps that bad if could mean getting a touch better than Exmor DR? The 12fps and less DR could've been left for 1DX2.



Not to me. 6FPS is perfectly acceptable, and that's a trade I'd make in a second.

That's basically how I'm hoping it plays out:



3kramd5 said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > the more I look at it the more it seems perhaps fully dependent on DPAF. Shame it wasn't on the 5DSR.
> ...





LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Of course the rumor might be pure BS and then all this is whatever.



Yup.


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## ahsanford (Apr 15, 2015)

joejohnbear said:


> I just compared them because of the value / price proposition. I actually hate the way Nikon is segmented. They're same mp, three different mid-mp bodies with consumer controls and segmentation (no af-on button, 1/4000 shutter, sd card only, etc), two low-mp bodies in either super expensive full size body or super expensive retro, and one large megapixel, poorish low-light. The D810 is probably the best all-around camera balancing megapixels and low-light compared to the 5DSR, but you're stuck at 36 megapixels as their sRAW is more inefficient at saving space on a card.



Understood. It took me a bit to understand your *three* 'same [24] MP' comment. I don't even consider the Nikon Df part of their ongoing FF line of products. I see that as a retro/hipster/style sidebar of a product line. I actually love the idea a throwback control scheme to court stubborn lifelong film shooters to join the digital fold, but I simply cannot get behind photography products whose #1 selling/marketing point is that the product "looks nice". So I personally disregard that thing when I talk about Nikon FF. 

I think if you zoom in on the D610 vs. D750 vs. D810, there's a little more going on there. I see three pretty clearly arranged price points, and I think Nikon's on to something there. 

The only thing I don't get is why didn't Nikon 'pull a Sony'? Why isn't the D750 a dead-on D810 clone but with the 24 MP sensor? Why nerf the D750's max shutter speed or not offer a dedicated AF-on button when the resolution alone should be enough to justify the D810's markup?

- A


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## Takingshots (Apr 15, 2015)

I hope Canon HQ is reading on those disgruntled Canon owners on their requests for improvements in this forum. The early indicator on the new line of camera 5Ds on how well they sell in the first quarter would be very important as they relates to market demand. Revenues speak volume. Special discount on L lenses is good marketing tool but new innovative camera is just as important; must perform better than the competitors. Waiting for more reviews or any new releases before year end.


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## ahsanford (Apr 15, 2015)

Takingshots said:


> I hope Canon HQ is reading on those disgruntled Canon owners on their requests for improvements in this forum. The early indicator on the new line of camera 5Ds on how well they sell in the first quarter would be very important as they relates to market demand. Revenues speak volume. Special discount on L lenses is good marketing tool but new innovative camera is just as important; must perform better than the competitors. Waiting for more reviews or any new releases before year end.



Agree on many points there. Keep in mind that 5Ds sales simply _have to be_ high right out the gate -- there's been a pent up demand for a high MP rig for a few years now. The same thing went with the 100-400L II -- they waited so long to put it out that a large windfall of immediate sales were just sitting there.

The *real* test of the 5Ds will come _after_ that first bolus comes out and after reviewers -- _specifically sensor nerds_ -- have their go at it. Because, let's face it, the only risk Canon has in that camera is the sensor itself. So much else of that camera has been done before, so it _should_ work well (and I imagine it will). I would be stunned if there was an implementation problem, light leak, peeling grip material, lens AF incompatibility, etc. with such an (other than the sensor) small design change.

Sorry for the ramble here, but I see maybe three potential outcomes based on sensor reviews:


If it tanks in DR or if noise is even worse than the 7D2, sales will suffer after that initial big sales number. The camera will be relegated to a small subset of studio and landscape guys who must have high detail and can leave the camera in very low ISO. Price will quickly drop for this rig and Canon will have learned its lesson about robbing Peter (high ISO) to pay Paul (pixels).


If it's similar in DR to the 5D3 and is only (let's say) 1 stop behind the 5D3 in low light, this camera will appeal to users outside of studio and tripod use. It will be more of a general use camera and it should maintain its price a bit longer. Many, many threads will start on this forum with the title of "What do I want more? The 5Ds or the 5D3?"



If, somehow, this lens outperforms expectations on DR and high ISO, like if DR is significantly improved over the 5D3 and the noise is on par with it, Canon has a longer-term winner on their hands that will cause problems for their rivals. 

I just can't see the third one happening with Maeda-san's comments about 7D2 pixel-level quality. My expectations of the sensor (other than the detail, of course) are pretty low.

- A


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## pedro (Apr 15, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> If it tanks in DR or if noise is even worse than the 7D2, sales will suffer after that initial big sales number. The camera will be relegated to a small subset of studio and landscape guys who must have high detail and can leave the camera in very low ISO. Price will quickly drop for this rig and Canon will have learned its lesson *about robbing Peter (high ISO)* to pay Paul (pixels).




Well said ;-) My first name is Peter and I'm all for high ISO!


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 15, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> I don't think Mark IV will be released anytime soon.
> Mark III is highly complete and still top-of-the-line middle class Full-Size camera. People still buy it after three years since it's original release.



5D3 is fine. But it's not top of the line middle class FF. Other than for the RAW video option thanks to ML, it really doesn't match to a D810 or D750.



> Plus, 5Ds/R is coming. If I'm the president of Canon, I would not release Mark IV while people still talking about 5Ds/R.



And 5Ds looks too many worse than a D810, nothing about it is better other than for 14 extra MP and I'd bet a 50MP Nikon arrives within six months and does everything better.




> Don't get me wrong, I really want 5D Mark IV! lol



Which just disproves everything you wrote before! ;D
People do want it now.


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## joejohnbear (Apr 15, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> The only thing I don't get is why didn't Nikon 'pull a Sony'? Why isn't the D750 a dead-on D810 clone but with the 24 MP sensor? Why nerf the D750's max shutter speed or not offer a dedicated AF-on button when the resolution alone should be enough to justify the D810's markup?
> 
> - A



Totally agree with you there. I still own a D700. I am in the camp that gets the most furious about that decision. There is absolutely almost no reason for me to own a Canon body if it weren't for that decision THREE freaking years ago (D600 and D800, now D750).


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## Diko (Apr 16, 2015)

JS5 said:


> The pissing contest continues regarding the megapixel BS !
> Billboards were made on 4 megapixel cameras back in the day and nobody cared... Sure the files are wayyyy better the color etc... do we need 50 megapixels ? the answer is NO ! What we need is cameras to sync at 8000th of a second ! We do not care about programs or even the meter, professionals use only manual and use a hand held meter, I wish canon made a model that had some 20 something megapixels, 10 frames a second, sync at at least 2500th of a second and it had one mode MANUAL ! Forget TTL and all that crap ! Hey Canon how about a camera much like a Hasselblad 501 for the ones that are actually making images not taking them ?



I use only manual mode on my camera and I tell you, there is such camera as desired from you for a long time already.... what are you complaining from?


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## DominoDude (Apr 16, 2015)

cayenne said:


> kirbyzhou said:
> 
> 
> > disappointment, still missing WiFi
> ...



Halleluja +1 !


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## [email protected] (Apr 16, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> [email protected] said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think Mark IV will be released anytime soon.
> ...



OK, let me rephrase.
5D Mark III is "one of" top-of-the-line middle class Full-Frame sensor camera. 

How's that?!

I don't believe in the This-Canon-doesn't-match-that-Nikon method.
I don't believe in the This-Nikon-doesn't-match-that-Canon method either.
Both companies make very, very good cameras.

And yes, Nikon will release 50MP class camera sooner or later.
That's the way Canon and Nikon improve each other for decades.
It's good for customers of both sides, don't you think?

One last thing, that "I disprove everything I wrote before" thing?
Please read my original comment.
I simply saying that even I want 5DIV so badly especially for Anti-Flicker, there's hardly the reason why Canon should release Mark IV anytime soon, that's all.

Let me say again, out loud, I DO WANT 5DIV !
I don't think that I disprove myself.

(Please excuse my poor-English, what can I say, I'm Japanese, lol)


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## 3kramd5 (Apr 16, 2015)

Diko said:


> JS5 said:
> 
> 
> > The pissing contest continues regarding the megapixel BS !
> ...



He's saying he wishes the only mode available were manual. But then again he also thinks most professional photographers are using hand held light meters. That may be true of some subsets of professional photographers, but as a whole? Hardly.


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## GMCPhotographics (Apr 16, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> [email protected] said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think Mark IV will be released anytime soon.
> ...



I think you need to parenthesis this with "in you opinion"....

I shot a lot of top tier landscapes, wild life and weddings using a pair of 5DIII's and they are fantastic tools. 
I not seen or used a more versatile and apply-able camera and that's where the 5DIII shines. Sure, you can find the odd spec where a Nikon or Sony is slightly better...but over all, there is no other camera in existence which allows a photographer such an amazing versatility. It does So much So well...all other cameras pale next to it.
Added to the fact that that this camera allows the user to use Canon fit lenses, which many are un-matched in the Nikon or Sony world. So all of the big whites, TS-e, fast aperture primes and the finest f2.8 and f4 zooms currently available....oh and the very sweet fisheye zoom lens. It's the greatest and most creative portfolio of lenses and camera's currently available. 

I've attached a seasonal photo.





Canon 5DIII, 70-200 f2.8 LIS II and a very stable tripod.


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## Creative69 (Apr 16, 2015)

BigAntTVProductions said:


> 8) ???
> so canon
> is goin too dice up or (niche) up all there cameras
> too please all these 4k video cry babies
> ...



Sony are already doing this too.


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## expatinasia (Apr 17, 2015)

GMCPhotographics said:


> I've attached a seasonal photo.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



What an interesting picture. It makes me think of Monet.


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