# Canon appears to have confirmed IBIS is on the roadmap



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 14, 2019)

> A slide from an EOS R/RF lens presentation confirms Canon is working on IBIS for future EOS R cameras. The system is called “All Optical IS” and it looks like in-lens and in-body image stabilization will work in harmony.
> This should appease a lot of people and I would expect to see it in the third EOS R camera body within the next year, which we’ll have more on later.
> *image credit // FroKnowsPhoto*



Continue reading...


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## leviathan18 (Feb 14, 2019)

The other rumored R camera with dual slot that was talked a few days ago, when is expected to be announced ?


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 14, 2019)

leviathan18 said:


> The other rumored R camera with dual slot that was talked a few days ago, when is expected to be announced ?



I'll address that soon.


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## Ladislav (Feb 14, 2019)

It will appease a lot of people only if it has specs similar to competition. If it matches / tops those specs only with IS lenses and deliver significantly worse specs with lenses without IS I expect people to moan again. Since Canon is putting IS almost everywhere, I expect that it is exactly what is going to happen.


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## Colorado (Feb 14, 2019)

Ladislav said:


> It will appease a lot of people only if it has specs similar to competition. If it matches / tops those specs only with IS lenses and deliver significantly worse specs with lenses without IS I expect people to moan again. Since Canon is putting IS almost everywhere, I expect that it is exactly what is going to happen.


Based on 99% of the reactions on the internet and social media to current releases people are going to moan, complain, and meme no matter what Canon releases or doesn't release in the future. Well actually the sky will be falling based on the rumors of what is going to be released and then no matter what is actually released it will be evidence that the sky has indeed fallen.


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## addola (Feb 14, 2019)

I think there was a rumor about Canon working on IBIS, and another one about a Back-Illuminated Sensor which improves low-light capabilities.

It would be a shame of Canon didn't implement IBIS on their cameras given how they have some fine fast (but heavy) non-stabilized lenses.


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## degos (Feb 14, 2019)

Colorado said:


> people are going to moan, complain, and meme no matter what Canon releases or doesn't release in the future.



Well yes, because they have to earn our money. Shoving-out half-baked products like the R isn't the way to achieve that beyond a small hard-core.

So now they've indicated that IBIS will appear in a future product, why bother with the R or RP? Neither are going to give a professional user an edge over a 5D4 and both seem to have a limited lifespan until made obsolete.


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## YuengLinger (Feb 14, 2019)

degos said:


> Well yes, because they have to earn our money. Shoving-out half-baked products like the R isn't the way to achieve that beyond a small hard-core.
> 
> So now they've indicated that IBIS will appear in a future product, why bother with the R or RP? Neither are going to give a professional user an edge over a 5D4 and both seem to have a limited lifespan until made obsolete.


A professional user will know exactly which camera suits their needs. Do you?


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## leviathan18 (Feb 14, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I'll address that soon.


Thanks, that might be the one for me


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## amorse (Feb 14, 2019)

degos said:


> Well yes, because they have to earn our money. Shoving-out half-baked products like the R isn't the way to achieve that beyond a small hard-core.
> 
> So now they've indicated that IBIS will appear in a future product, why bother with the R or RP? Neither are going to give a professional user an edge over a 5D4 and both seem to have a limited lifespan until made obsolete.


I'm not sure the R or RP is intended to give a professional edge over the 5D IV. In some instances they will, but being priced below the 5D IV both the R and RP are likely targeted at different buyers.

Why would anyone choose the RP or R over a 5D IV or the upcoming pro model? Because not everyone can afford or needs a professional camera. The RP is priced so low that people who felt that they could only afford an APS-C or m4/3 sensor camera (new) may be able to re-evaluate that decision. I'll bet that the bulk of potential buyers for this camera will come from APS-C cameras and really they just want the easier to access bokeh and improved low light performance. You might also see some current Canon full frame users pick this up as a backup considering how small it is. 

Not everything is a spec battle, sometimes the cheaper product will win despite its shortcomings.


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## nchoh (Feb 14, 2019)

degos said:


> So now they've indicated that IBIS will appear in a future product, why bother with the R or RP? Neither are going to give a professional user an edge over a 5D4 and both seem to have a limited lifespan until made obsolete.



Both are single slot cameras, which tells me that they are not aimed at the professional user.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Feb 14, 2019)

nchoh said:


> Both are single slot cameras, which tells me that they are not aimed at the professional user.


Most users are not professionals, and many of the members on this site are not professionals. A arguement might better be why bother with professional cameras, since so few of them are sold. Canon makes most of its camera sales profits on entry level cameras.


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## Colorado (Feb 14, 2019)

degos said:


> So now they've indicated that IBIS will appear in a future product, why bother with the R or RP? Neither are going to give a professional user an edge over a 5D4 and both seem to have a limited lifespan until made obsolete.


Why did Canon ever bother making all those digital Rebel cameras? They never held a candle to the 1 or 5 series camera in terms of specs. No professional photographer ever evaluated Canon's line up and said "Yup, all Rebels, all the time, for all my jobs." Notice how the press release for the RP starts (emphasis mine):


> Responding to the demand from *amateur* and advanced *amateur* photographers for an *entry-level*, full-frame mirrorless camera ...


You are proving my point. You are (rightfully so) focused on your wants and needs in a camera which sounds like something at the professional level. Canon is worried about a line up of camera bodies and lenses that makes them the most money and helps them weather the storm of an overall shrinking camera market. The internets will scream about the lack of IBIS, or 4K crop factor, or a single memory card slot, or a smaller battery, or whatever. But does anyone really doubt the RP is going to sell like hotcakes?


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## Pacific7Wave (Feb 14, 2019)

I believe, according to their full presentation, that their "ALL OPTICAL IS" is only a further enhancement of their lens-based IS, and will not be an In-Body Image Stabilization, as you would know as IBIS, (as stabilizing the image sensor), but rather using dedicated sensors in the body to further refine how the lens-based system responds and reacts, giving the system additional information rather than relying solely on what's happening at the end of a lens. And also the specific info supplied by these dedicated sensors can also be used for their "digital-based" image stabilization. And that is why the information appears in their Lens Roadmap, that while this system in included in the RP body, it needs updated lenses to complete the technology.....


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## Random Orbits (Feb 14, 2019)

degos said:


> Well yes, because they have to earn our money. Shoving-out half-baked products like the R isn't the way to achieve that beyond a small hard-core.
> 
> So now they've indicated that IBIS will appear in a future product, why bother with the R or RP? Neither are going to give a professional user an edge over a 5D4 and both seem to have a limited lifespan until made obsolete.



Because the RF lenses are THAT good and you can't use them on DSLRs.


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## rjbray01 (Feb 14, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...



Will the be the EOS R mark II then ?

( or some hyper-expensive piece of kit that only photo journalists and wildlife pros can afford )


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## [email protected] (Feb 14, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...



Is there a link to this presentation anywhere? One poster below indicates that they saw the whole presentation. Can't find it.


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## bokehmon22 (Feb 14, 2019)

Colorado said:


> Based on 99% of the reactions on the internet and social media to current releases people are going to moan, complain, and meme no matter what Canon releases or doesn't release in the future. Well actually the sky will be falling based on the rumors of what is going to be released and then no matter what is actually released it will be evidence that the sky has indeed fallen.



Replace that with any other camera manufacturer. Canon is not the only victim ;-)


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## edoorn (Feb 14, 2019)

Pacific7Wave said:


> I believe, according to their full presentation, that their "ALL OPTICAL IS" is only a further enhancement of their lens-based IS, and will not be an In-Body Image Stabilization, as you would know as IBIS, (as stabilizing the image sensor), but rather using dedicated sensors in the body to further refine how the lens-based system responds and reacts, giving the system additional information rather than relying solely on what's happening at the end of a lens. And also the specific info supplied by these dedicated sensors can also be used for their "digital-based" image stabilization. And that is why the information appears in their Lens Roadmap, that while this system in included in the RP body, it needs updated lenses to complete the technology.....



The picture of the slide cleary says in body image stabilization, seems the term all optical IS means they are moving out the digital IS and its all done in both lenses and on sensor. Wonder how many stops you gain when combined!


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## Grimbald (Feb 14, 2019)

I expect a very capable camera to come for around 3000-3500$. As CR posted a few weeks ago, Canon is aware that the low entry market shrinks due to better mobile phone cameras. They expect to make money in the professional and high end sector, which I assume they will focus on in the future. For that, the RP makes alot of sense to let people do the step to their professional line with professional glass as easy (cheap) as possible. As also mentioned here, Canon works actively on 8k recording for a future EOS R camera, and I wouldn't be suprised if their new model will be capable of that. The only thing I hope will not come true is that the sensor is above 60MP....


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## Michael Clark (Feb 14, 2019)

Ladislav said:


> It will appease a lot of people only if it has specs similar to competition. If it matches / tops those specs only with IS lenses and deliver significantly worse specs with lenses without IS I expect people to moan again. Since Canon is putting IS almost everywhere, I expect that it is exactly what is going to happen.



Let them moan! The rest of us will be out making pictures.


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## Michael Clark (Feb 14, 2019)

edoorn said:


> The picture of the slide cleary says in body image stabilization, seems the term all optical IS means they are moving out the digital IS and its all done in both lenses and on sensor. Wonder how many stops you gain when combined!



With most other manufacturer's implementations, using both together is only about one stop better than the better of either IBIS or IS when used alone.


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## Del Paso (Feb 14, 2019)

They whined because Canon didn't have IBIS.
Now, since Canon is about to get IBIS, they start to criticize the planned IBIS for its poor quality....
Nostradamus lives... and has many followers who already know they will be disappointed in a year from now!


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## bokehmon22 (Feb 14, 2019)

I wish they would come out with a product announcement for EOS R Pro just like they did with their 6 RF lenses. 
Wishful thinking.


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## felipeolveram (Feb 14, 2019)

Pacific7Wave said:


> I believe, according to their full presentation, that their "ALL OPTICAL IS" is only a further enhancement of their lens-based IS, and will not be an In-Body Image Stabilization, as you would know as IBIS, (as stabilizing the image sensor), but rather using dedicated sensors in the body to further refine how the lens-based system responds and reacts, giving the system additional information rather than relying solely on what's happening at the end of a lens. And also the specific info supplied by these dedicated sensors can also be used for their "digital-based" image stabilization. And that is why the information appears in their Lens Roadmap, that while this system in included in the RP body, it needs updated lenses to complete the technology.....



I too have question whether this "ALL OPTICAL IS" is a transition form electronically stabilized lenses to the lenses themselves being optically stabilized like Panasonic's OIS or Sony's OSS or simply an enhanced version of either electronic stabilization.


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## Ozarker (Feb 14, 2019)

Del Paso said:


> They whined because Canon didn't have IBIS.
> Now, since Canon is about to get IBIS, they start to criticize the planned IBIS for its poor quality....
> Nostradamus lives... and has many followers who already know they will be disappointed in a year from now!


Pitiful, isn't it? Makes one wonder what they are like to live with. Constant clouds over their heads.


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## amorse (Feb 14, 2019)

bokehmon22 said:


> I wish they would come out with a product announcement for EOS R Pro just like they did with their 6 RF lenses.
> Wishful thinking.


I'm looking forward to that too, but they did make the comment that they know there are some high expectations for the upcoming camera and they want to get it right. With that in mind, I would bet that they'll hold their cards close to their chest until its pretty close to ready to go. I'm going to bet acknowledgement of a higher end body in their pipeline is as close to a development announcement as we're going to get.

I would expect that they want some sort of hook from a marketing perspective to push the body. For instance, the R boasted the best low light focusing, the RP was lightest/cheapest to date, and I'm sure they'll want something like that for launch of the pro body. The issue with development announcements is that if they come too early, their promises may not align with reality in the end. 

At the end of the day, I think we can be confident that Canon is going to offer a higher-end mirrorless camera because they've left the high-end price bracket alone for mirrorless. I can't see the EOS R being their most expensive mirrorless body they offer when they know people will pay over $3600 for a camera like the 5DsR. That's not to knock the 5DsR, it's just a note that Canon is a lot of things, but cheap isn't one of them! If Canon thinks they can get over $3k from consumers, they're going to try.


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## nchoh (Feb 14, 2019)

Pacific7Wave said:


> I believe, according to their full presentation,...



Can you post the link to the full presentation please.


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## cayenne (Feb 14, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I'll address that soon.


If this turns out to be the "5D" version in the R series...then, I"m saving my nickels to get that one, and will put my trusty old 5D3 into backup status.

I would be VERY excited about a R version 5D type camera....2x cards, etc....

cayenne


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## bokehmon22 (Feb 15, 2019)

amorse said:


> I'm looking forward to that too, but they did make the comment that they know there are some high expectations for the upcoming camera and they want to get it right. With that in mind, I would bet that they'll hold their cards close to their chest until its pretty close to ready to go. I'm going to bet acknowledgement of a higher end body in their pipeline is as close to a development announcement as we're going to get.
> 
> I would expect that they want some sort of hook from a marketing perspective to push the body. For instance, the R boasted the best low light focusing, the RP was lightest/cheapest to date, and I'm sure they'll want something like that for launch of the pro body. The issue with development announcements is that if they come too early, their promises may not align with reality in the end.
> 
> At the end of the day, I think we can be confident that Canon is going to offer a higher-end mirrorless camera because they've left the high-end price bracket alone for mirrorless. I can't see the EOS R being their most expensive mirrorless body they offer when they know people will pay over $3600 for a camera like the 5DsR. That's not to knock the 5DsR, it's just a note that Canon is a lot of things, but cheap isn't one of them! If Canon thinks they can get over $3k from consumers, they're going to try.



We also have 3 possible EOS R Pro models: 5D, 5DSR, 1DX. Which one will they prioritize first? If I knew, it would make my decision easier. I'm also consider Sony next generation camera, Panasonic S1, and EOS R Pro.

I agree with you it won't be cheap. Whatever they decided to do, I bet it won't be cheap since EOS R was expected to be around $2000, but it's $2300 and missing some features.

I also agree with you that they probably don't want to do development announcement too early.



> *Canon: *We know there's a lot of customers and there's strong demand for a pro body. We're aware of that. But at the same time, the expectations in terms of performance are really high as well, so we need time to make sure that we get everything right in the body.



It seems like it can be a while for them to release a pro model especially if they want to implement new sensor, better AF, EVF, 4K, eyeAF. Canon is great at many things but I tihnk they are being hold back by sensor design. I expect late 2019/early 2020 for a pro model.


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## Jethro (Feb 15, 2019)

cayenne said:


> If this turns out to be the "5D" version in the R series...then, I"m saving my nickels to get that one, and will put my trusty old 5D3 into backup status.
> 
> I would be VERY excited about a R version 5D type camera....2x cards, etc....
> 
> cayenne


It's interesting where that camera will sit - both the EOS R and EOS RP sit 'between' existing cameras (the EOS R between the 5Div and the 6Dii, and the EOSR RP between the 6Dii and the higher level APS-C and EOS M models). This seems to be to encourage people to upgrade into the EOS range. So, in theory a 'pro' EOS model might be pitched between the 5Div and the 1DX - maybe even re-using the 1DX sensor to cut costs and encourage people to trade up from a 5Div(?). But if it is a high profile pro camera to be released pre the Olympics next year, reusing a sensor might not fit - issues like FPS would be important (which seems to have size implications in a mirrorless body). And where does that leave a high MP EOS body?


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## tinaundmaxim (Feb 15, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> Gosh, I hope not. Anything you can do by physically moving the sensor you can do by digital manipulation, but with fewer moving parts, more reliably, smaller, ultimately cheaper. If the current digital stabilization isn't quite there, fine, do something physical, but I'd much rather see a full-digital solution. The R actually does digital stabilization in movies. I don't know what's preventing them from doing that in stills as well.


Actually, a combination of both would be perfect. But yeah, you´re right. If they develop a great digital stabilizer, it will be much cheaper to implement this in other cameras.

Maybe pro models will get a combination of both - something like physical sensor movement for 2 EV stabilization + digital for another 2 EV.

I am having my hopes up for a pro model getting released soon. Though i am sure, that i will miss my 6D as a backup camera for weddings. Especially battery life is like forever on a 6D compared to a 5D Mark IV - so i wonder what the battery life will be on a R pro-body.


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## Del Paso (Feb 15, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Pitiful, isn't it? Makes one wonder what they are like to live with. Constant clouds over their heads.


And the new lenses are too heavy, too expensive, too sharp, too wide open, too big, too Canon ...
If only they were made by Wonderful Sony!


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## blackcoffee17 (Feb 15, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> Gosh, I hope not. Anything you can do by physically moving the sensor you can do by digital manipulation, but with fewer moving parts, more reliably, smaller, ultimately cheaper. If the current digital stabilization isn't quite there, fine, do something physical, but I'd much rather see a full-digital solution. The R actually does digital stabilization in movies. I don't know what's preventing them from doing that in stills as well.



Digital IS for stills would mean a big crop, loss of resolution and field of view. The same applies for video and it's only possible now because video resolution is always a fraction of the total sensor resolution and Canon uses a heavy crop already for 4K.

No one wants to use a 15mm lens to end up with 18mm focal length when the IS is enabled.


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## blackcoffee17 (Feb 15, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> Why would it be a "big crop?" It's not a big crop on video.It might only be 50 pixels per side or less.
> 
> Granted it'd be a SMALL loss of resolution but so is pretty much every other type of processing the camera can do: fixing distortion, fixing chromatic aberration, lowering noise by stacking shots, etc. etc. Every one of those is usually acceptable and can be turned off it not.



I might be wrong but the M50's 4K video adds a visible extra crop when digital IS is enabled. That's more than 50 pixels.


SwissFrank said:


> How does it matter that 4K is a heavy crop? Even when you're using digital stabilization in 4k, it doesn't actually go outside that crop area for "extra pixels," instead they come from inside the area. Digital stabilization in video is available no matter how much of the sensor you're using.



I meant in the future when Canon will have full 4K without crop, digital IS crop could be unwanted. I don't see it as a major issue for video tho.


SwissFrank said:


> That's not how photographers work. Instead, if you wanted 18mm and wanted digital IS (or, say, corrected distortion), you'd shoot 17mm or so. If you want 50mm, you shoot 48mm. It's not like you'd doggedly and stupidly stick to the focal length you want to end up with then whine that you didn't get it when you activate such a mode



But if your widest lens is 11mm and you need the full wide angle, digital IS would not be very useful.


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## Ira Parker (Feb 16, 2019)

Grimbald said:


> The only thing I hope will not come true is that the sensor is above 60MP....



Is that because you are concerned about increased noise at low light or file size?


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## Grimbald (Feb 16, 2019)

Ira Parker said:


> Is that because you are concerned about increased noise at low light or file size?



For both of those reason. A "5dsr like" camera will be great for landscapes because of its resolution and the possibilty to crop in, but many landscape shooters like to take milkyway and aurora pictures as well. And most likely, you just won't carry 2 bodies up a mountain, so Canon hopefully comes up with a good balanced solution of not too many MP just because they can and it looks good on paper. They way I know Canon, they still will make some things imperfect with this body, and my bet would be FPS, beacuse a) it's hard to do that with a file size that large and b) they want a clear distinguishable difference between their 1dx line (which I assume to come sometimes sometimes later as a mirrorless version).


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## Don Haines (Feb 16, 2019)

Ira Parker said:


> Is that because you are concerned about increased noise at low light or file size?


My bet is that there will be both a high megapixel camera and a high performance camera


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## tron (Feb 16, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> My bet is that there will be both a high megapixel camera and a high performance camera


They could also try for a combination of both (See Nikon D850). But yes what you say is the most probable scenario.


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## tpatana (Feb 18, 2019)

I don't care too much about IBIS although it'd be nice. More important features to replace my bodies:

5D4:
-40Mpix+
-Awesome DR at low ISO
-Good generic all-around, wifi etc.
-Dual-slot would be nice but not mandatory
-optional grip
-$3500 or less

1DX:
-20-30Mpix
-DPAF tracking while shooting moving indoor sports in fairly dim gyms, close or better compared to 1DX
-deep buffer
-dual slot mandatory
-all fancy stuff like wifi etc
-1DX style body, i.e. gripped
-$5500 or less

Both of them should have AF point spot metering too. I don't get why Canon has to be hard-a$$ about keeping that for 1D-line only.


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## BurningPlatform (Feb 19, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> Gosh, I hope not. Anything you can do by physically moving the sensor you can do by digital manipulation, but with fewer moving parts, more reliably, smaller, ultimately cheaper. If the current digital stabilization isn't quite there, fine, do something physical, but I'd much rather see a full-digital solution. The R actually does digital stabilization in movies. I don't know what's preventing them from doing that in stills as well.


Quite substantial development in digital stabilization would be needed, though. The current digital IS systems stabilize movement only between subsequent video frames. You just can not digitally eliminate motion blur during a single exposure. You just can't. The only way to do this would be to divide the exposure to multiple sub-exposures, and to those sub-images use automatic alignment, perspective correction and stacking. Quite possibly possible in a few years, as that is what some mobile phones already do with long exposures.

And with longer focal lengths the movement of the image circle on the sensor plane (hand held) is too large to be compensated digitally anyway (same with IBIS, long lenses will always have lens IS)..


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## 3kramd5 (Feb 19, 2019)

BurningPlatform said:


> Quite substantial development in digital stabilization would be needed, though. The current digital IS systems stabilize movement only between subsequent video frames. You just can not digitally eliminate motion blur during a single exposure. You just can't. The only way to do this would be to divide the exposure to multiple sub-exposures, and to those sub-images use automatic alignment, perspective correction and stacking.



That’s not the only way. You could run deconvolve algorithms. However they’d be no better, and probably quite a bit worse, than if done on a dedicated computer.

But I agree, the ability to keep a subject roughly in the same part of the frame from one shot to the next is completely different than stabilizing an individual frame. The digital IS canon uses won’t reduce blue induced by camera shake in a given frame.


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