# Canon Rumors Site Information



## Canon Rumors Guy (Apr 1, 2012)

Hey, there are a few changes taking place at canonrumors.com that I thought I'd tell you about.


1) New server/host

Canon Rumors was moved to a new host last night and I don't think anyone really noticed. What you will notice is an increase in site speed, all measurements taken show a dramatic improvement. We're on better hardware and are running a better optimized setup. This will continue to be tweaked over the next couple of days.

2) Return of Karma

The ratings for forum posts has been a difficult one to figure out, so we're trying out some new things. For now, only a total karma score will show, so you won't see the likes and dislikes broken down. We'll see if that helps keep things honest.

It's now called "Reputation" until I figure out a better name.

It's going to get abused by some people, there's not much we can do about that. We just ask that you don't. 

3) New site design

It's coming, looking to clean things up and make them a bit more uniformed between the site and the forum. This isn't in the immediate future, but it will be in the next 60 to 90 days.


Thanks
Craig

Canon Rumors


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## michi (Apr 1, 2012)

Sounds fantastic. Thanks for all the hard work!

As to the reputation, I think we were all doing just fine without it, kind of a shame to see you bring it back. But it's no big deal either.


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## sach100 (Apr 1, 2012)

Cool. 

i doubt if there would be a 5D3 type mayhem in the near future (With all due respect to guys looking for other upgrades). People (including me) went crazy this past month.


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## JR (Apr 1, 2012)

Thanks for the update Graig. Looking forward to seeing the new look! And seeing how the return of Karma will pan out!


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## Marsu42 (Apr 1, 2012)

Canon Rumors said:


> The ratings for forum posts has been a difficult one to figure out, so we're trying out some new things. For now, only a total karma score will show, so you won't see the likes and dislikes broken down. We'll see if that helps keep things honest.



I'm rather disappointed by the re-introduction of the karma system - it still gives a global evaluation and not a per-post one, and people who have a non-compliant opinion are still bound to end up down on the scale. This is because the main shortcomings aren't fixed:

* People will still click "dislike" if they do not agree with a post, i.e. dislike the argument
* You still don't know why you've got bad karma, making it impossible to adjust (or even to think about it)

It seemed more mature without karma in the short meantime because I don't need a rating to ignore troll comments and it doesn't replace a moderation of a forum.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Apr 1, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > The ratings for forum posts has been a difficult one to figure out, so we're trying out some new things. For now, only a total karma score will show, so you won't see the likes and dislikes broken down. We'll see if that helps keep things honest.
> ...



We may be moving to new forum software, and will have the ability to do "post ratings" right off the bat. Currently there is nothing available for our forum solution. That IS an ideal solution and one we hope to have sorted one way or another.

Thanks
Craig


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## Bob Howland (Apr 1, 2012)

And how does "reputation" implementation correct any of the problems of the "Karma" implementation? The plain answer is that it doesn't. The issue, simply stated, is that, if the goal is to "fix" the poster's behavior, neither implementation provides enough information to give useful feedback. Instead it allows, even invites, sociopaths to anonymously attack posters without actually telling the posters what they are being attacked for. The ONLY implementation that makes sense is on a per-posting basis. It would also be really nice if the attackers couldn't remain anonymous. There is too much anonymity in sites like this and it is insanely stupid to add more.


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## DanoPhoto (Apr 1, 2012)

Glad to see CR continue to evolve as one of the top forums out there. Karma, reputation or whatever it is called next helps, but after a while it all becomes a blur and loses it original purpose.


Every one can identify positive contributors and those that are not.


Glad CR is doing everything possible to maintain civility.


Dan


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Apr 1, 2012)

Bob Howland said:


> And how does "reputation" implementation correct any of the problems of the "Karma" implementation? The plain answer is that it doesn't. The issue, simply stated, is that, if the goal is to "fix" the poster's behavior, neither implementation provides enough information to give useful feedback. Instead it allows, even invites, sociopaths to anonymously attack posters without actually telling the posters what they are being attacked for. The ONLY implementation that makes sense is on a per-posting basis. It would also be really nice if the attackers couldn't remain anonymous. There is too much anonymity in sites like this and it is insanely stupid to add more.



As I said, that is ideal. We're working towards that but it can't happen overnight.

However, things have gotten worse, not better; since the Karma system was removed. Moderation reports are up, email complaints are way up and threads about "this forum is getting bad" are up.

No action is not the right choice, the karma/reputation system is not ideal but it's something while we work on the ideal solution.


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## D_Rochat (Apr 1, 2012)

I come to this forum everyday and I think it's been an over-all positive change since karma was taken away. You'll never get rid of nasty people and trolls completely. The anonimity of the Internet invites and encourages this behavior no matter what you do. A karma/rep system just fuels this. 

I look forward to watching my "rep" go down for expressing my opinion. ;D I just hope people don't take it too seriously like last time. We will see. 

Edit- off to a good start already! I just logged for this post and already have -21 rep!


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Apr 1, 2012)

The solution will be sooner than later... I promise.



Craig


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 1, 2012)

I saw one person make his first post this morning, nothing wrong with it, and he already has a -1.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 1, 2012)

D_Rochat said:


> Edit- off to a good start already! I just logged for this post and already have -21 rep!



FWIW, I would guess that the current number for 'Reputation' is the sum of the previous positive and negative karma values. 

I, too, have noticed an uptick in snarky posts since karma was turned off. I'm not sure that a lack of consequences (if you consider an arbitrary number of indeterminate significance to be a consequence) is the only reason for that, but I suspect it's one of the factors.


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## D_Rochat (Apr 1, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> D_Rochat said:
> 
> 
> > Edit- off to a good start already! I just logged for this post and already have -21 rep!
> ...



It appears as though you are right. I was under the impression it was started over. Disregard my last.....


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## Isurus (Apr 1, 2012)

Any chance the redesign will also include a mobile version of the site? A while ago there used to be a mobile version, but it has been missing for some time.


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## D_Rochat (Apr 1, 2012)

and now it's gone ???


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## Marsu42 (Apr 1, 2012)

Canon Rumors said:


> The solution will be sooner than later... I promise.



Ok, thanks for the information (and all your work, by the way). Since I didn't see the complaints, I have to believe you the situation has gotten worse even if this is not my experience. And as long as we all agree that karma is a temporary, rather unreliable fix I'm ok for the time being.


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## AnselA (Apr 1, 2012)

Karma may feed into the inherent immaturity of a few in the community that prefer censorship to actually dialogue and honest discussion. If a poster is regularly abusive as to require moderation then official removal is the only solution instead of getting nicked with tiny anonymous cuts. People's standards as to what requires censorship and banishment is very uneven (there is no standard) and really relates to how sensitive the readers are about their equipment and the POVs they hold and defend - sometimes it is just sensitivity to any outsider holding a differing opinion. 

I think a well stated, actionable response to a posting you don't like ( not a return slam) is much better feedback to potentially change behavior than a super secret electronic rating...but that is me. I like it open, clear and to the point. If that doesn't work and it is a real community problem not a "onesie" - then it is up to Craig and Co. to block. That is what I prefer, but then I am only a chronic lurker.

That said, it be good to wait a tad on the return of the Karma II, _THE RECKONING _, until the 5D III frenzy subsidies, people learn to use the camera or return it and the flood of new posters with perhaps questionable motivations leave and we can get back to just being vigilant with dark lords at Nikon.


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## JR (Apr 1, 2012)

How bog of an impact do you guys beleive the 5DmkIII had on these "bad" post behavior? I mean there likely was a whole bunch of new folks joining the CR site with the launch of the 5DmkIII and maybe they assume this forum was uncivalized like some others they go to!!! 

Maybe now that the dust will settle it will get better. I wonder if a system with a more penalizing consequence on bad behavior or abusive language would be more appropriate to moderate exchanges.

Like if you get reported once you get a warning, twice you account is de-activated for 1 week, and three times your deactivated for 1 month or somthing. I would leave it to the moderator (Graig and his team) to decide if a reported post deserve to get a strike!

Just a thought...

J


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## Marsu42 (Apr 1, 2012)

JR said:


> How bog of an impact do you guys beleive the 5DmkIII had on these "bad" post behavior? I mean there likely was a whole bunch of new folks joining the CR site with the launch of the 5DmkIII and maybe they assume this forum was uncivalized like some others they go to!!!



Thinking about it: I guess you're right. There are some new-to-photography people with "my first 5d3 shots" here that clash with old school photogs, and the 5d3 price tag initiates discussions of the type "you're just jealous" vs "you're an ignorant amateur". So it should be getting better once the 5d3 is not the main issue anymore.



JR said:


> I wonder if a system with a more penalizing consequence on bad behavior or abusive language would be more appropriate to moderate exchanges.



My experience from other forums is that it's best if some acknowledged mod makes a public post once in a while when tension are high saying what behavior is not tolerated (any why). So everybody can get their bearings reading this, imho it's much better than elaborate private warnings or bans.


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## Tracy Pinto (Apr 1, 2012)

I am a long time reader but one who just recently joined the community I have been surprised. I bought the wonderful, but much maligned here, 5D III and thought I could learn a bit more about professional equipment and technique. Boy was I surprised at what started happening here. 

From my POV, a new group took over the site and they will be gone when they finish trying to destroy this camera launch. The folks here somehow got nervous and insecure with their purchases as a result. They generally know their stuff here and the facts will sort themselves out in the end. When I was just a reader Karma was of no interest to me and still is not. It will have not effect.

I will ask what I need to and will ignore those that have opinions I do not value. I don't like censorship of any kind and the bullies are many times just insecure shadows of who they want to be. Anonymity only serves them.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Apr 2, 2012)

We'll be moving to vBulletin soon, we'll probably do a 14 day countdown, as you're going to have to reset your password. It'll be super easy though.

vBulletin will run faster and have post ratings. As well as other features that will be make the board a bit more enjoyable.

I appreciate the patience, critiques and kudos...

More soon



Craig


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 2, 2012)

Wow, Vbulletin really appears to be a big step up in capability. Good support for mobile users, and a ton of features. 

https://www.vbulletin.com/index.php?do=features#forum-features

Do you plan to have a preliminary test installation for users to try out?


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Apr 2, 2012)

Hey

There will be an install done that will probably be available to moderators, working to make sure the feature sets work and we know how to use it.

The plan should be sorted out by midweek.


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## coltsfreak18 (Apr 2, 2012)

Will you be upgrading to vBulletin 4.x forum or 4.x publishing suite?


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Apr 2, 2012)

coltsfreak18 said:


> Will you be upgrading to vBulletin 4.x forum or 4.x publishing suite?



4.x Forum


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