# Some Canon EOS 6D Mark II Talk [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 17, 2017)

```
<p>A bit more information has floated in about the upcoming Canon EOS 6D Mark II, a camera we expect to be announced after NAB in April and before the summer months.</p>
<p>These are few things we’ve been told about the camera.</p>
<ul>
<li>All new sensor
<ul>
<li>We’re told it’s likely going to be 28mp, though the source doesn’t know if that’s total or effective megapixels.</li>
</ul>
</li>
<li>Dual SD slots</li>
<li>Tilting LCD</li>
<li>Touchscreen</li>
<li>DIGIC 7</li>
<li>Aiming for a sub $2000 USD body only price</li>
<li>DPAF</li>
<li>There has apparently been a lot of internal discussion about the video features and it’s likely we’ll see the camera shoot 4K in some capacity.</li>
<li>Wifi, NFC & Wireless charging</li>
<li>Larger viewfinder</li>
</ul>
<p>We expect to start hearing a lot more about the EOS 6D Mark II in the coming months.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 17, 2017)

Sounds like a good set of specs for an entry level FF dSLR. Should sell like hotcakes.

Now, here come the Canon haters to start bashing the camera based on a rumor, months before it launches...


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## jolyonralph (Jan 17, 2017)

stupid canon! If it doesn't do xxxx then i'm not buying it!


Just wanted to get in before anyone else  Sounds a good upgrade to me.


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## jolyonralph (Jan 17, 2017)

Let's hope at least for UHS-II support


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## bereninga (Jan 17, 2017)

Looks like Canon listened to their customers! As long as the AF is improved significantly, there's not much more to ask for IMO. I'd like to see this camera remain at a reachable price, especially since it's supposed to be entry-level FF.


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## unfocused (Jan 17, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Sounds like a good set of specs for...



I agree with the "good set of specs" part, but it strikes me as being a step above entry level. I wonder if we will eventually see a version with specs similar to the original 6D, selling in the same sub-$1,500 range. 

Big question will be the autofocus. Will it be closer to the 70D or to the 80D?


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## Maximilian (Jan 17, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Sounds like a good set of specs for an entry level FF dSLR. Should sell like hotcakes.
> 
> Now, here come the Canon haters to start bashing the camera based on a rumor, months before it launches...


+1



jolyonralph said:


> stupid canon! If it doesn't do xxxx then i'm not buying it!
> 
> 
> Just wanted to get in before anyone else  Sounds a good upgrade to me.


+1

all said  thread to be closed


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## Maiaibing (Jan 17, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> A bit more information has floated in about the upcoming Canon EOS 6D Mark II, a camera we expect to be announced after NAB in April and before the summer months.</p>
> <p>These are few things we’ve been told about the camera.</p>
> <ul>
> <li>All new sensor
> ...


Sounds more like a wish list than reality. Just needs an articulating instead of tilting screen.


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## cani (Jan 17, 2017)

I'm close to buying a 5D Mark IV. Should I wait for the 6D instead? Where's the major benefits of Mark IV now?


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## hbr (Jan 17, 2017)

My money is waiting for you Canon.


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## slclick (Jan 17, 2017)

Take my money before I buy a M5/80D


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## Chaitanya (Jan 17, 2017)

Dual Sd slots: I will wait if dumb Canon really implements it and if it does then surely it will be castrated Sd slots with no Uhs-II or full U3 implementation(dumb Canon only implemented full SDR104 on its 80D for the first time to take full benifit of Uhs-I speeds). 
4K Video: dont think so as dumb Canon logic dictates it will cannibalise the sales of craptastic 5D mark 4 whose video is already castrated to protect C series of cameras.
Wireless charging: now that could be useful if the wireless charger is not too expensive and supports Qi standard. Wont mind if this camera doesnt come with gps but implements Qi.


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## da_guy2 (Jan 17, 2017)

Any word on upgrades to the focus system? That's my biggest complaint about the current 6D and what (in my opinion) really needs an upgrade.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 17, 2017)

Chaitanya said:


> Dual Sd slots: I will wait if dumb Canon really implements it and if it does then surely it will be castrated Sd slots with no Uhs-II or full U3 implementation



Oh, yes..._surely_. 

I believe I've already addressed your concerns...



neuroanatomist said:


> Now, here come the Canon haters to start bashing the camera based on a rumor, months before it launches...


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## ahsanford (Jan 17, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Sounds like a good set of specs for an entry level FF dSLR. Should sell like hotcakes.
> 
> Now, here come the Canon haters to start bashing the camera based on a rumor, months before it launches...



The question is how will Canon nerf this thing to keep the 5D4 price up where it is: what *won't* the 6D2 get that the 5D4 did? For $2k, there must be some fairly major takeaways.

My guess at the 'never gonna happen on the 6D2' list:

Tough metal body
5D4 sensor
5D4 metering
5D4 AF system 
5D4 burst rate
CF card slot

My guess at the 'probably not going to make it to the 6D2' list:

4K (yes, I saw the rumor -- not buying it)
A buffer as big as the 5D4 (shot count before filling, I mean)

_Might_ make it to the 6D2:

DP RAW (perhaps they withhold it as a 'pro body only' feature)

Sure to be on the 6D2:

Anti flicker
Customizable interface like with other recent models
Plurality / spread of f/8 points (more than just the center, but perhaps not 5D4-level of f/8 options)
1/8000 shutter
DPAF
Tilty-flippy touchscreen
Wifi
NFC
GPS

Takeaways from the 6D1: Interchangeable focus screens -- I fail to see why the 6D camp would be offered something kept from the 5D camp for two generations now.

- A


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## Steve Balcombe (Jan 17, 2017)

Maiaibing said:


> Sounds more like a wish list than reality.



I thought exactly the same, but who knows?



cani said:


> I'm close to buying a 5D Mark IV. Should I wait for the 6D instead? Where's the major benefits of Mark IV now?



If the difference is anything like the difference between a 7D2 and an 80D - i.e. not much when you compare the spec lists, but huge in the hand - then the 5D4 will still be well worth having for many people. (I have to say that though, because I've just bought one.)


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## jrista (Jan 17, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Sounds like a good set of specs for an entry level FF dSLR. Should sell like hotcakes.
> 
> Now, here come the Canon haters to start bashing the camera based on a rumor, months before it launches...



You know, if you weren't always the first one to post and *preemptively start the war*, the war might actually end...

One might think you actually enjoy endlessly bickering over the same meaningless stuff... :


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## hubie (Jan 17, 2017)

Dual SD card slot and tilty screen with dpaf... this will be my first full frame camera. Looking foward to it!


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## ahsanford (Jan 17, 2017)

da_guy2 said:


> Any word on upgrades to the focus system? That's my biggest complaint about the current 6D and what (in my opinion) really needs an upgrade.



It will have more than 9 points. That's about all we know. 5D4 level AF isn't going to happen.

So, as a comically wide set of goal posts, it's going to be somewhere between the 6D1 and 5D4 for AF functionality. I know that doesn't help much, but consider the AF was probably the #1 concern with the 5D2, and the 5D3 was an epic improvement on that front. Canon may do something _directionally_ similar with the 6D2 (though maybe not go all the way to 60+ points).

- A


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## slclick (Jan 17, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like a good set of specs for an entry level FF dSLR. Should sell like hotcakes.
> ...



For me this would be a dedicated macro rig and would be very unhappy if it didn't have interchangeable focus screens for better MF lenses. So the tilty flippy is a +++ as well.


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## testthewest (Jan 17, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Sounds like a good set of specs for an entry level FF dSLR. Should sell like hotcakes.
> 
> Now, here come the Canon haters to start bashing the camera based on a rumor, months before it launches...



Honestly: Here are so many more mindless fanboys than haters, I think you can stop it now....or at least modify it into: "In before the CANON IS GOD! THEY CAN'T MAKE MISTAKES!-crowd."

As for the 6DII: If the specs are true, I'll buy it at a heartbeat! That's exactly what I wanted. A modest increase in MP, touchscreen+tilt-screen, a fair price (I'd even call 2500€ fair for this), the new sensor that isn't too far behind sony and a great autofocus (surely it will have some more AF-points than the 6D)!
This could be the thing Canon invested people like myself have waited for! I could even see this becoming more popular with the professionals than the 5DIV.


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## Don Haines (Jan 17, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Sounds like a good set of specs for an entry level FF dSLR. Should sell like hotcakes.
> 
> Now, here come the Canon haters to start bashing the camera based on a rumor, months before it launches...



I remember when the 60D came out and it was superior in many ways to the 7D.....

I remember when the 80D came out and it was superior in some ways to the 7D2....

I remember when the 6D came out and was superior in some ways to the 5D3....

I am sure that there will be a lot of people going on about protecting sales, but the reality is, when Canon (or Nikon or Sony) introduces a camera in a slot of their range, the camera will be as good as it can be PROFITABLY sold for in that price range and the only thing that deliberately crippling features would achieve would be to hurt sales...


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## slclick (Jan 17, 2017)

testthewest said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like a good set of specs for an entry level FF dSLR. Should sell like hotcakes.
> ...



Playing both sides of the coin sure is a fun game around here as of late.


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## NorbR (Jan 17, 2017)

Tilty touchscreen and DPAF in a full frame camera under $2k... Yes please ! 

Now I'll wait to see if the interchangeable focussing screen is still there. It's the only reason I'm keeping my 6D at the moment, and I'd probably have to keep it a bit longer if Canon took that option out of the 6D2.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 17, 2017)

jrista said:


> You know, if you weren't always the first one to post and preemptively start the war, *the war might actually end*...


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## mistaspeedy (Jan 17, 2017)

They should have a customer loyalty program so I can swap my 20D for a 6D mark II (which needs to match the 1DX Mark II in features), for $100. Otherwise Canon is *******... Just kidding...

But yeah, it's probably time I upgraded my camera.

The 6D mark II can't really go wrong in terms of specs... as long some features are comparable (a bit lower) to either the 80D or 5D IV (and better than the original 6D).


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## ahsanford (Jan 17, 2017)

NorbR said:


> Tilty touchscreen and DPAF in a full frame camera under $2k... Yes please !
> 
> Now I'll wait to see if the interchangeable focussing screen is still there. It's the only reason I'm keeping my 6D at the moment, and I'd probably have to keep it a bit longer if Canon took that option out of the 6D2.



And I don't mean to take something away from the 6D camp like I'm the grinch, but I simply fail to understand why a critical element of working with higher end MF lenses (by no means a beginner's need) was given to the 6D camp and withheld from 5D3 and now 5D4. I recall Canon spoke to the transparent (translucent) overlay with the 5D3 VF as a reason why it could not be changed out, but not being able to use an MF screen seems like a nontrivial unmet need.

I am truly curious to see if the 6D2 keeps this feature. 

- A


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## LesC (Jan 17, 2017)

Hope it retains GPS. Not sure why it would 'only' have a tilting screen when even entry level dslrs now have fully articulating?

As always, price will be the deciding factor as too how well received it is. Even a price of $2000 will probably be a big increase over what I paid for my 6D in the UK; dollar prices tend to translate to the same over here so it's likely to be £2000 over here whereas I paid £1279 for mine 2 years ago....


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## docsmith (Jan 17, 2017)

Great list of specs. In addition to the AF, the other main question in my mind is ergonomics. Joystick and better back wheel please....

But, if I were to guess where the 6DII will be "nerfed" it is:

Quantity of AF Points. I am thinking 18-25
Quality of AF points. EV-3, only center is f/8, fewer are cross, etc.
Body. Build quality, weather sealing, etc
Ergonomics. No joy stick, lower quality wheel, fewer buttons (I actually use most on my 5DIII)
No 4K video. It would be a surprise.

If the rumored spec list is true, upgrade in sensor tech from 1Dx II, 5DIV, etc carries over and it is limited in the above ways, I would still be tempted. Biggest limitations to me will be the f/8 AF points and the ergonomics. I very much enjoy shooting my 5DIII. I'd hate to give up the joystick, wheel, etc.


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## bsbeamer (Jan 17, 2017)

this sounds like a great 2nd body to my 5D4, or MAYBE good enough for me to sell that and pickup two of these instead? will wait for more details. 

hopeful this may be a better 4K implementation and maybe (doubtful) that will prompt a firmware update for the 5D4...


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## addola (Jan 17, 2017)

Good set of specs for the 6D successor. My biggest complaint with my 6D is the sub-par AF points. Only center one is cross type. 

It would be nice if it has the 5D Mark iii AF points (since the original 6D inherited the 5D Mark ii AF points)

They should probably have a more efficient video codec than M-JPEG.


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## ahsanford (Jan 17, 2017)

docsmith said:


> If the rumored spec list is true, upgrade in sensor tech from 1Dx II, 5DIV, etc carries over and it is limited in the above ways, I would still be tempted. Biggest limitations to me will be the f/8 AF points and the ergonomics. I very much enjoy shooting my 5DIII. I'd hate to give up the joystick, wheel, etc.



Great point -- it's poll time. 5D3 owners who skipped the 5D4 only, please:

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=31726.0

- A


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## johnhenry (Jan 17, 2017)

A sub $2K FF body with 4K?

Seriously hobbled without High Speed Cf cards 

Canon keeps doing this:

It doesn't want to give anyone 4K video in any decent fashion just so it can drive 2% of those people to 4K video.

More will simply keep their aging cameras like my 7D for even longer.

At some point we'll get sick of waiting and jump or just leave our cameras as is without upgrades until they die


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## hubie (Jan 17, 2017)

LesC said:


> Hope it retains GPS. Not sure why it would 'only' have a tilting screen when even entry level dslrs now have fully articulating?
> 
> As always, price will be the deciding factor as too how well received it is. Even a price of $2000 will probably be a big increase over what I paid for my 6D in the UK; dollar prices tend to translate to the same over here so it's likely to be £2000 over here whereas I paid £1279 for mine 2 years ago....



Oh dear dont hang yourself up on the word "tilt". Think just a second.
Give up the "Ruggedness" of a non flipscreen and then only implement a tilt screen when you have already a real-world proven articulating screen recipe?
Nope. Not going to happen. Even with "stupid Canon".
It's just rumor and words probably not chosen 100% accurate...


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## Bags (Jan 17, 2017)

Got the 80D for Christmas. Couldn't wait any longer to upgrade. :-\

Maybe next Christmas I can finally get a FF. (But, by then more mirror less FF rumors will be flying around...)

It does sounds nice.


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## unfocused (Jan 17, 2017)

jrista said:


> ... One might think you actually enjoy endlessly bickering over the same meaningless stuff... :



I can't believe it's taken you this long to figure that out.


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## transpo1 (Jan 17, 2017)

bsbeamer said:


> this sounds like a great 2nd body to my 5D4, or MAYBE good enough for me to sell that and pickup two of these instead? will wait for more details.
> 
> hopeful this may be a better 4K implementation and maybe (doubtful) that will prompt a firmware update for the 5D4...



It would be excellent if they implemented 4K with a lighter codec and log and gave the 5D4 a few extra video features via firmware update...Canon might get some 4K video customers back from Sony this way.


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## Diko (Jan 17, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Sounds like a good set of specs for an entry level FF dSLR. Should sell like hotcakes.
> 
> Now, here come the Canon haters to start bashing the camera based on a rumor, months before it launches...


 I kind of think it would be plastic and slow... But this "Tilting LCD" is quite a deal.


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## Don Haines (Jan 17, 2017)

I'm looking at it from a slightly different viewpoint..... I really really really want a nice camera for nighttime work. To me, image noise at higher ISOs is the most important factor, as I would be using it a lot at ISO6400 and above for things like night-time landscapes, critters in the evenings, and astrophotography.... Of course my astrophotography will not produce images like jrista, but I really enjoy going out and trying....

If it better than the 6D for that, I will be happy. If it is significantly better, then I will be significantly happier


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## Besisika (Jan 17, 2017)

4K is the key, if 4K then I am upgrading my 5D III. 
Perfect for a video B-camera for a close up and hand-held video. Would be a king of B-rolls.
As far as photos, tilt screen lightweight full frame will separate it clearly from the rest.


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## tron (Jan 17, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> A bit more information has floated in about the upcoming Canon EOS 6D Mark II, a camera we expect to be announced after NAB in April and before the summer months.</p>
> <p>These are few things we’ve been told about the camera.</p>
> <ul>
> <li>All new sensor
> ...


Now if it has better DR and high iso capabilities than my 5D4 I'm all in


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## heretikeen (Jan 17, 2017)

testthewest said:


> This could be the thing Canon invested people like myself have waited for! I could even see this becoming more popular with the professionals than the 5DIV.



Never. The "professionals" will still go for the most expensive stuff.
That said, I hope those rumors are true as well. That's the cam I want.


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## infared (Jan 17, 2017)

Sounds good...
I still have my 5D III...I am just going to wait for the 5DIV's gray market, busted up kits, or whatever until the price is on eBay or wherever at $2000. There should be some of those opportunities in the coming year. I am very happy with my 5DIII so I am in no hurry..... 8)


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## jeffa4444 (Jan 17, 2017)

docsmith said:


> Great list of specs. In addition to the AF, the other main question in my mind is ergonomics. Joystick and better back wheel please....
> 
> But, if I were to guess where the 6DII will be "nerfed" it is:
> 
> ...


Im thinking at a minimum it needs 45 points just like the 80D


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## Act444 (Jan 17, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> docsmith said:
> 
> 
> > If the rumored spec list is true, upgrade in sensor tech from 1Dx II, 5DIV, etc carries over and it is limited in the above ways, I would still be tempted. Biggest limitations to me will be the f/8 AF points and the ergonomics. I very much enjoy shooting my 5DIII. I'd hate to give up the joystick, wheel, etc.
> ...



While I no longer qualify(!) for this poll as I did end up picking up a 4, it's still a question I may consider as I still use my 5D3. I haven't given it up partially because I actually love having a camera I can go to and worry less about something happening to it (given that it's older equipment). Plus IMO there's not enough of an IQ difference between the two cameras to render the 3 obsolete...

So what does this have to do with the 6D2 - well, it has run though my head that if enough of the improvements made from 5D3-5D4 "trickle down" to the 6D2 in a smaller form factor, and the price is right, I'm not going to rule out doing a 5D3-6D2 move. My only feature wish that I have not yet seen mentioned in the rumors would be for a pop up flash, which could save even more space. Also depends on what AF system they decide to put in - I really like the 5D3/5D4 61-point system and would be hesitant to downgrade on a critical feature like that.


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## jeffa4444 (Jan 17, 2017)

All new sensor
We’re told it’s likely going to be 28mp, though the source doesn’t know if that’s total or effective megapixels.
Dual SD slots
Tilting LCD
Touchscreen
DIGIC 7
Aiming for a sub $2000 USD body only price
DPAF
There has apparently been a lot of internal discussion about the video features and it’s likely we’ll see the camera shoot 4K in some capacity.
Wifi, NFC & Wireless charging
Larger viewfinder

28MP fits with the differences between the 6D & 5D MKIII. 
Dual SD slots is a good move
Tilting LCD thats touch screen would be a good move
Digic 7 good
DPAF
4K interesting to see how this compares to the 5D MKIV 

I would add it needs 45 AF points and 7560 RGB-IR metering system like the 80D which in many ways its the full-frame version of. That would go some way to justify a $ 2K body price / Euro 2.1K / £ 2K body price which is double in the UK the 80D price.


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## jeffa4444 (Jan 17, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> docsmith said:
> 
> 
> > If the rumored spec list is true, upgrade in sensor tech from 1Dx II, 5DIV, etc carries over and it is limited in the above ways, I would still be tempted. Biggest limitations to me will be the f/8 AF points and the ergonomics. I very much enjoy shooting my 5DIII. I'd hate to give up the joystick, wheel, etc.
> ...


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## ahsanford (Jan 17, 2017)

jeffa4444 said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > docsmith said:
> ...



First, if you can write > 1000 posts here, you can learn to quote. ;D

Second, I am fully aware that all sorts of people upgrade to Canon's FF rigs, but I specifically wanted to pick the brain of people in my situation: 5D3 owners that didn't snap up a 5D4. Are they sitting this entire cycle out, are they waiting up until the 6D2 specs formally drop to make a 6D2 vs 5D4 decision, etc.?

It's a selfish question, I admit, but I find it an interesting one to poll the forum with.

- A


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## slclick (Jan 17, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> NorbR said:
> 
> 
> > Tilty touchscreen and DPAF in a full frame camera under $2k... Yes please !
> ...



Due to it being One Shot oriented and not AI Servo?


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## Crosswind (Jan 17, 2017)

No smaller body? Still, these specs sound very very good to me. Too bad, that it is not a FF mirrorless. I now have the M5 since a few days and I'm really happy (have sold my old 6D for that). 

Bottom line is; I will skip the 6DII and use my M5, till Canon will offer a FF mirrorless body. I don't want to buy into DSLRs ever again, after I had the M5 in my hands.


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## ahsanford (Jan 17, 2017)

slclick said:


> Due to it being One Shot oriented and not AI Servo?



Not necessarily -- I just feel that a 5D product should be able to say (within reason) 'anything a 6D product can do, I can do as well _and then some_'. This can never categorically be true as these kinds of products can't be released in the same timeframe, but the principle is still sound here. 

Why should a 6D get a 1DX-level feature (interchangeable screens) and the entire 5D line is locked out from it? Help me understand that.

- A


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## slclick (Jan 17, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > Due to it being One Shot oriented and not AI Servo?
> ...



I like different! I don't feel everything has to be a lesser version of each more expensive thing.


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## ritholtz (Jan 17, 2017)

I hope they release 2 versions like rebels. Cheaper version exactly like 6d with this new sensor.


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## Aussie shooter (Jan 17, 2017)

IF it is announced early enough and IF it's price is around or not much more than the 7d2 it is something i will seriously consider depending on two things. While i know it's AF system won't compete with a 7d2 it might still be worth it with an 80d style setup AF wise. And IF the dual sd slots rumour is true it could be very tempting.i would epect the same articulating screen as the enthusiast cameras as the 6d does not have the left hand side buttons to prevent this.don't care about 4k. Actually i would be happier without it as it would keep the price down. But either way. If it is not announced by april it won't matter for me and a 7d2 it will be.


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## hbr (Jan 17, 2017)

Aussie shooter said:


> IF it is announced early enough and IF it's price is around or not much more than the 7d2 it is something i will seriously consider depending on two things. While i know it's AF system won't compete with a 7d2 it might still be worth it with an 80d style setup AF wise. And IF the dual sd slots rumour is true it could be very tempting.i would epect the same articulating screen as the enthusiast cameras as the 6d does not have the left hand side buttons to prevent this.don't care about 4k. Actually i would be happier without it as it would keep the price down. But either way. If it is not announced by april it won't matter for me and a 7d2 it will be.



Hi Aussie shooter,

I currently own both the 6D and the 7D II and I use each of them for totally different styles of photography. The 6D gives me incredible photos and are usually very sharp with little noise. Usually it is quite easy to clean up the noise unless the photo was taken when it was dark outside.

The 7D II is absolutely the most fun camera I have ever photographed with, but I have always been disappointed with the noise levels. When the light is good and I am using a lens of f/2.8 or better, the camera gives me pretty good photos, but with my 400mm f/5.6 lens attached, even in good light there is quite a bit of work to do to clean up the noise. Had I been able to afford one, I think I would have been happier with a 5D III.


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## applecider (Jan 18, 2017)

Be interesting to see what the F8 focal point lens functionality will be. The trend to move beyond central focal point only is welcome.

And given the low light EV focusing of the original what will the ii do for low light?


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## NancyP (Jan 18, 2017)

Tilting LCD!!! No more neck strain for ground-level macro!
I will be interested to see how the sensor fares. 
The 6D classic is a great camera for "basics" and for manual focus mavens. I like being able to use the superfine focusing screen.


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## KiagiJ (Jan 18, 2017)

It'll never be a sports camera so the number of AF points don't matter (as tracking is unnecessary) as much as their quality. The 6D only had single outer focus points so i ended up only using the center point for reliability. The spread layout wasn't the issue before if they were cross type points so i just hope theres some damn cross type points spread out! regardless if its a brick wall of points or just a few

Digic 7 would be interesting if it gives the cleanest high iso jpeg processing of all, above current digic 6. The 6D was cleaner than the 5D3, the 1DX was cleaner than both, but then the 1DX2 made no improvement in iso. Who knows its possible the 6D2 could equal the 1DX2 or surpass. The 5D3 was way below 1DX high iso quality yet the 5D4 is almost as good as 1DX2, so anything's possible as they're not keeping their same strong difference this generation. Sucks as i wanted my 1dx2 to be amazing

I'm looking forward to it as it may be the lightest and only ff dpaf canon for video as my 1dx2 is tiring one handed on a glidecam! so weight reduction is apprecaited


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## jedy (Jan 18, 2017)

The main feature missing for me in the 6D is a clean HDMI output. Not even bothered about headphone out or anti-aliasing filter but the lack of a clean output makes it difficult to use external monitors. It would be nice to hook up to a waveform/focus peaking monitor (btw, I've had several issues with Magic Lantern so I don't use it). Also monitor recorders aren't useable with the 6D - I'm sure this was intentional to encourage DSLR filmmakers into purchase the 5D III though. I honestly don't get the point of an HDMI out if it's not clean - plugging directly into a TV isn't a deal breaker imo. Not holding my breath for this feature in the 6D II.


----------



## The Flasher (Jan 18, 2017)

I was really hoping canon would listen this time. 3 card slots, two tilt screens or no buy


----------



## Busted Knuckles (Jan 18, 2017)

hbr said:


> Aussie shooter said:
> 
> 
> > IF it is announced early enough and IF it's price is around or not much more than the 7d2 it is something i will seriously consider depending on two things. While i know it's AF system won't compete with a 7d2 it might still be worth it with an 80d style setup AF wise. And IF the dual sd slots rumour is true it could be very tempting.i would epect the same articulating screen as the enthusiast cameras as the 6d does not have the left hand side buttons to prevent this.don't care about 4k. Actually i would be happier without it as it would keep the price down. But either way. If it is not announced by april it won't matter for me and a 7d2 it will be.
> ...



Sell both and it wouldn't be much of an extra few bucks to get a 5d4 or certainly very little to get a 5d3?????


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## Busted Knuckles (Jan 18, 2017)

Always room for improvement. I did have a chance to play w/ my friends 80d over the weekend, forgot how much I enjoy the tilty/flippy from my t3i days.

Someone could calculate the extra surface area, etc. But would be more interested in something that really goes after the low light side in a big way.

Stay in the 20mp range - protects the 5d4

4k vid with some better than average capabilities - lots of room to do 1:1 pixel as an option vs. down sampling. No 4k I think would really hobble the contest in the race for headline specs.

20 mp and the 4k data pipe would support a very nice FPS capability.

I would be ok w/ it not being super weather sealed ( I am largely if not completely a fair weather photo dude)

Push it to the top of the enthusiast market. 5D4 is the "bottom" of the pro market.

After playing w/ DP autofocus it seems to be the killer for macro focus stacking efforts - manual lenses excluced clearly. I could see the Magic Lantern guys having a blast setting the dpaf movements to exactly equal the circles of confusion steps.

I doubt much of my wants or opinions will come true or influence the outcome. 

We will wait and see.

Happy clicks.


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## IglooEater (Jan 18, 2017)

If this has a decent autofocus and okay fps then there's a chance I'll buy a camera body new for the first time- based on these current speculative specs that is. I'm still looking at used 5D IIIs...


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## jedy (Jan 18, 2017)

The Flasher said:


> I was really hoping canon would listen this time. 3 card slots, two tilt screens or no buy


I'm sure someone will come along with feature demands that would make it better than the 5D IV specs.


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## [email protected] (Jan 18, 2017)

By the time the 6D2 come out, the 5D4 should be in the part of the cycle where the price comes down a little bit - even if not officially, certainly through the various ways this happens, such as through third parties. We may find that the 5D4 is selling for $2800 to $2900 at that time. So a 6D2 that costs $2,000 having so many nice qualities will not seem so unnatural. 

I do suspect that the autofocus not being the latest and greatest, and the f/8 focusing would be adequate to keep the higher end camera sales safe. Someone mentioned frames per second as one of those factors, but I hardly think the 5D4 deserves to be put on a pedestal for it's 7fps capacity. I say that as an enthusiastic owner and fan of the body. It's just missing 3 fps that the processor could deliver if Canon had decided to do so.

The spec list doesn't sound too crazy given that future pricing situation.


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## IglooEater (Jan 18, 2017)

The Flasher said:


> I was really hoping canon would listen this time. 3 card slots, two tilt screens or no buy



What, only one diopter? Stupid Canon. I'm switching to Sony.


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## captainkanji (Jan 18, 2017)

I'm not sure it I want to get the new 6D or keep my old one and get a 5DSR.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 18, 2017)

The Flasher said:


> I was really hoping canon would listen this time. 3 card slots, two tilt screens or no buy



There you go, just blindly assuming it won't have three card slots. Canon hater!

;D


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## canonographer (Jan 18, 2017)

slclick said:


> For me this would be a dedicated macro rig and would be very unhappy if it didn't have interchangeable focus screens for better MF lenses. So the tilty flippy is a +++ as well.



Excuse my ignorance, but if we were somehow able to get focus peaking, would that not negate the need for interchangeable focus screens?


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## In-The-Dark (Jan 18, 2017)

slclick said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > slclick said:
> ...



Product differentiation maybe.
5DIV is great for this type of photography, 6DII will be great for other things.
Different gear for different types of photography.


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## TeT (Jan 18, 2017)

I own the 6D & the SL1. What AF system should I be looking for in the 6DII; ie. comparable in use to 80D 7DII 5DIII, number of points etc...

The only reason I would upgrade is much better autofocus.


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## ahsanford (Jan 18, 2017)

canonographer said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > For me this would be a dedicated macro rig and would be very unhappy if it didn't have interchangeable focus screens for better MF lenses. So the tilty flippy is a +++ as well.
> ...



(Presuming the 6D2 is indeed an SLR and not mirrorless...)

Focus peaking off the back LCD, effectively manually focusing in liveview 12" from your face is a fail. Taking stills with MF through liveview has the ergonomic sensibilities of taking cell phone pictures _...with your cell phone taped to a brick._ The same is true of those who say FF mirrorless isn't needed: "just switch to liveview on your SLR and it's mirrorless - presto!". 

In both FF mirrorless or FF SLR manual focus lens work, I want to hold a camera _like a camera_ and use the viewfinder (be it EVF or OVF). Being relegated to LiveView framing and holding the camera away from your face like a cell phone is less comfortable, less stable and less satisfying, IMHO.

- A


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## tron (Jan 18, 2017)

On second thought if it doesn't have 30Mp 7fps 1CF and 1 SD slot DP GPS, WiFi and touchscreen I will not get it. Oh wait.... ;D


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## Luds34 (Jan 18, 2017)

addola said:


> Good set of specs for the 6D successor. My biggest complaint with my 6D is the sub-par AF points. Only center one is cross type.
> 
> It would be nice if it has the 5D Mark iii AF points (since the original 6D inherited the 5D Mark ii AF points)
> 
> They should probably have a more efficient video codec than M-JPEG.



Amen, for all the whining and speculation I've seen in this thread already, I suspect only a fraction have used a current 6D in any real, regular use. Fix/Improve the AF system in the current 6D... everything else is just candy.


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## ahsanford (Jan 18, 2017)

Luds34 said:


> Fix/Improve the AF system in the current 6D... everything else is just candy.



I agree on the AF, but the lack of a tilty-flippy screen is a massive feature hole in the FF lineup. Nikon has it in the D750 (and surely in the D610 follow up), Sony has it on all 'II' versions of their A7 rigs, and it just makes perfect sense for Canon to have one with its great video AF.

A tilty-flippy is simply needed _somewhere_ in all these FF bodies, and the 6D2 (as the enthusiast's champion) would appear to be that body. Make the great 'full-frame 80D' the people want, I say.

- A


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## hubie (Jan 18, 2017)

KiagiJ said:


> The 5D3 was way below 1DX high iso quality yet the 5D4 is almost as good as 1DX2, so anything's possible as they're not keeping their same strong difference this generation. Sucks as i wanted my 1dx2 to be amazing
> 
> I'm looking forward to it as it may be the lightest and only ff dpaf canon for video as my 1dx2 is tiring one handed on a glidecam! so weight reduction is apprecaited



So you hate your 1DX2 because the 5D4 sensor has catched up to it? Sounds like you know what photography is about , i certainly see why you invest 4500 $$ into a camera to boost your photography ~~.


----------



## Aussie shooter (Jan 18, 2017)

hbr said:


> Aussie shooter said:
> 
> 
> > IF it is announced early enough and IF it's price is around or not much more than the 7d2 it is something i will seriously consider depending on two things. While i know it's AF system won't compete with a 7d2 it might still be worth it with an 80d style setup AF wise. And IF the dual sd slots rumour is true it could be very tempting.i would epect the same articulating screen as the enthusiast cameras as the 6d does not have the left hand side buttons to prevent this.don't care about 4k. Actually i would be happier without it as it would keep the price down. But either way. If it is not announced by april it won't matter for me and a 7d2 it will be.
> ...



I know the current 6d while a great camera is not a jack of all trades. But i think it should be. Just a lesser jack than the 5d series. I would really love the IQ of full frame but withiut the budget for a 5d4 and withiut the desire to give up the resolution a 7d2 would provide for wildlife i have no other option. A 5d3 while sweet would not be better than a 7d2 for me due to the loss of resolution when cropping as is mandatory with wildlife. Its images would generally be no better than a crop sensor could provide. But IF the 6d has 28mp and something like an 80d AF system which is passable for wildlife it ciuld be a good way for canon to drag me into FF territory. I have little doubt that would eventually see me spend up on more full frame lenses and in the long run get a better body that could use those lenses.i am not one of those asking for a 5d at a 6d price. I don't need the 4k. Would even be happy without an articulating screen if it saved cost(although i have little doubt it will have one). 6fps would be acceptable too if they want to differentiate from the 5d series. But a jack of all trades would be the best way to make people jump the gap from crop to FF.


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## Berowne (Jan 18, 2017)

If this rumour will be near to the truth in regard to the specs, then the price cannot be sub 2000$. I think, the 6DII will replace the 6D _and_ the 5DIII with a price in the Region of the 5DIII, so that in the end there will be no Canon-"Entry-Level" FF-DSLR. Compared to the 5DIV the prizes of the 5DS/5DSr and 6D far are too low. May be, at the end of the ear we will have only four Canon-FF DSLR's 

1DxII 6000€
1DSr 6000€ (replacement of the 5DS and 5DSr)
5DIV 4000€
6DII 2500€ (replacement of the 5DIII and 6D) 

I purchased just now a 6D. It was always a bargain and I think we will never again see such an inexpensive Canon FF-Body.


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## hubie (Jan 18, 2017)

Interesting to see how a lot of people are daydreaming about 80D like AF capabilities, fps like crazy, exorbitant price increases (because of fancy spec speculations) etc. Just a lot to feel let down about after the camera's presentation... :-\

There will be a reason why the camera costs less than a 5D mk IV. I guess it will be excellent for stills and may be have some proper video capabilities (perhaps even 4k, though i dont't expect that) due to the flippy screen. That's it. For Sports you better keep using your 70/80D, 7D/mk II or 1DX/mk II's, for wildlife at it's best similarly.


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## Aussie shooter (Jan 18, 2017)

AF is relative though. 80d AF is nothing out of the ordinary nowadays and could be implemented at a reasonable price. 19 point AF though is now quite the standout due to it being so outdated. 7d2, 5d4 and 1d style af is another matter entirely and will not be included in an entry level ff untill something far better is produced. FAR better. If they could implement that in a camera body at 3k(Australian ) they would have a really nice setup. Hell. I would even be happy with 26mp if they wanted a bigger difference with the 5d4. Ditch the wifi. No nfc. No gps. Get rid of it all and just give me a good camera for taking photos at a reasonable price. 5k for the 5d4 in Australia is just way to much.


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## KiagiJ (Jan 18, 2017)

hubie said:


> KiagiJ said:
> 
> 
> > The 5D3 was way below 1DX high iso quality yet the 5D4 is almost as good as 1DX2, so anything's possible as they're not keeping their same strong difference this generation. Sucks as i wanted my 1dx2 to be amazing
> ...



I didn't say I hate my camera mofo. I love my 1dx2, I was just expecting it to be way better iso performance than my 6d, which is a shame as it isn't much better. You'd expect it to be at 6gs and 3 years later technology

But it's amazing for everything else it can do so I'm happy overall of course


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## JohanCruyff (Jan 18, 2017)

Am I the only who would like to see an electronic level in the viewfinder (both horizontal and vertical)?


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## Woody (Jan 18, 2017)

I am surprised to see this level of interest in an entry level FF DSLR.

Based on the multiple posts I've read, I am almost inclined to believe MILCs are all the rage while DSLRs are stillborn before their release.

;D ;D ;D


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## Maiaibing (Jan 18, 2017)

addola said:


> Good set of specs for the 6D successor. My biggest complaint with my 6D is the sub-par AF points. Only center one is cross type.
> 
> It would be nice if it has the 5D Mark iii AF points (since the original 6D inherited the 5D Mark ii AF points)


No. That would be bad since the 6D centre point goes down to -3ev and the 5DIII only down to -2ev. This is a critical difference because -2ev to -3ev is exactly dusk/dawn light levels. Lack of improved low light AF (and no real image quality improvement) was the reason I did not replace my 5DII's with 5DIII's.

Also, the 6D did *not *inherit the original 5DII AF points.


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## Maiaibing (Jan 18, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> The question is how will Canon nerf this thing to keep the 5D4 price up where it is: what *won't* the 6D2 get that the 5D4 did? For $2k, there must be some fairly major takeaways.
> 
> My guess at the 'never gonna happen on the 6D2' list:
> 
> ...


Not going to be the same for sure due to the MPIX count. However, the 6D had a superior sensor to the 5DIII. So I hope 6DII also gets a superior sensor to the 5DIV.

In fact we have seen a consistent Canon sensor improvement for each of these FF's over time - even if it sometimes has been very marginal like the MPIX count from 5DII to 5DIII: 

5D<5DII<5DIII<6D<5DS/R<5DIV


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## Ivan Muller (Jan 18, 2017)

mmmmm I got the 80D about six months ago and it has been the canon body which I have liked the least...the shutter is loud, focusing is overly complicated with inconsistent results and high iso performance is very poor compared to my 6D...in fact the 80d has made me fall in love with my 6D all over again...its simple to use, dependable with fantastic high iso quality..so much so that I have gotten used to shooting professionally at the higher iso's of between 800 and 3200 so often that it has become my new 'normal'...so...not sure what more I would really like in the 6Dmk2??

I hope the outer Af points are more accurate and usable...

touch screen 

Video like the 80D

100% viewfinder

24mp will be enough for me especially if it means the high iso noise is better than the mk1 and 5D4

And please give us a joystick or even the M5 solution to moving the Af points

Vertical and horizontal spirit level...even my M3 has that


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## Sabaki (Jan 18, 2017)

I'd like the following:

* Intelligent Viewfinder (ala 7Dii)
* 100% Viewfinder
* 30+ AF points
* Wide AF point spread
* 1/250 sync speed
* Better bulb mode implementation (I find going into sub menus a beit of a schlep)

As an entry level FF body, the 6D is pretty damn sweet as it is


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## jedy (Jan 18, 2017)

Woody said:


> I am surprised to see this level of interest in an entry level FF DSLR.
> 
> Based on the multiple posts I've read, I am almost inclined to believe MILCs are all the rage while DSLRs are stillborn before their release.
> 
> ;D ;D ;D


Judging by all the excitement around the false rumour that the 6D II would be mirrorless, you might not be far off! ;D


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## GMCPhotographics (Jan 18, 2017)

I really hope that canon keeps the interchangeable view finder screens of the 6D and 5DII. It's something that's sadly missing from the 5D3/4 range.


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## M_S (Jan 18, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> jeffa4444 said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...


I will at least have a look at the 6d2 and follow the news about that camera. The 5D4 is out of the question price and spec-wise. I will have a serious look at Sonys upcoming cameras when they finally can manage to come out with an excellent 16-35 (rumour has it) and perhaps a future 5Dsr2. For now, I will just use my 5D3 a bit longer.


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## Takingshots (Jan 18, 2017)

I will compare the specs 6D v.II to the newly release GH5. I think it is comparable in pricing but GH5 so far has good review.


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## Luds34 (Jan 18, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Luds34 said:
> 
> 
> > Fix/Improve the AF system in the current 6D... everything else is just candy.
> ...



That's a valid point that I can agree with. I personally could take it or leave. There is something more clean about not having a screen that pops out. On the other hand I do miss having one like I did with my 70D at times and they are useful. Either way the fact that is is missing from the entire FF lineup is a valid feature hole. Either way, I'll still say the flippy screen is part of the candy... bonus stuff.


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## jeffa4444 (Jan 18, 2017)

This has been my consistent wish list based on extensive use of the current 6D since 2013 and taking other Canon developments into consideration since its launch. 

28MP dual pixel sensor 
45 point cross type AF (centre dual-cross type) 
63 zone with 7,560 pixel RGB+IR metering sensor
100% viewfinder coverage
Anti-flicker
Max. Shutter speed 1/8000 to 30sec
Intervalometer
Flash sync at 1/250
6fps continuos shooting
NFC
Dual pixel AF focusing
Customised quick menu
Improve weather seals (mainly to buttons). 

Retain from current camera 

GPS
Wi-Fi (but improve the connectivity which is arcane)
Dynamic range 
LP-E6N battery

Body size is already good compromise, slightly lighter would be cool. I'm less concerned about a flippy screen I use my iPhone & Wi-Fi to remotely fire the camera, view scene & images taken when the camera is on a tripod but understand others desire for this. Touch screen would be neat point & shoot has had this for years but again not a deal breaker for me. 

The 6D has been a stellar camera, underrated by many I think unfairly but for me its produced some great results and was my entry into FF. As a hobby shooter myself I don't think I would have bought the 5DS without first buying the 6D so Canon should retain an entry level FF camera or someone else will fill that void.


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## K (Jan 18, 2017)

I've been the biggest critic on this forum of Canon for not offering dual card slots on a ~$2,000 FF body camera - and it looks like Canon is finally waking up or responding to market standards. Dual slots, particularly SD slots, is a HUGE win here and that alone is going to make this camera so much more viable for so many more users.

A $2,000 FF Canon is going to eat up and demolish the Nikon advantage among low-budget entry level pros and semi-pros and part-timers. That option was not there for many, because not everyone is crazy enough to shoot a critical event like a wedding and bet it all on a stupid single CF or SD card surviving. 

I'm happy with dual SD, I also hope they are UHS-II capable but I strongly doubt they will do that.


To me, all the other specs can be mediocre and I'm still happy. It's going to be a great camera.

The other big want --- a 45pt AF system. I really hope they give us at least 45 points. Or maybe more? Like the 5D3 or 5DS AF? Who knows. What counts here is more points to be able to change the focus point, not necessarily to have blazing fast sports grade AF. So if they have to "nerf" the AF, it ought to be on speed and intelligence, not on points. At this stage in camera market development, a lot of lower cost options have many points to choose from for composition. Given the trends in other cameras - 45 is a good baseline to expect.

I really hope the center AF point is -3EV or better which I expect it to be. Expecting -3.5 or -4. Although, 

4K - who cares. You can also forget that. The 5D4 doesn't do 4K the way people want, why would the 6D2?


Bigger viewfinder...this means 100% or a lot closer to it than the 6D was. This is very welcome feature. Any improvement here is helpful. This is also an indicator that yes, we probably will see a more serious AF system too.

What's the catch? I'm thinking 5 fps. They really could do 6 like the 5D3. The Nikon D750 IIRC does 6.5 so it wouldn't be unreasonable to expect 6. But knowing Canon, that's too close to the 5D4 and they gotta keep some separation there.

What's the other catch? Probably a small buffer. That will run in line with the 5 fps to make sure this thing isn't too useful for action. That and they can blame it on the SD cards. Even though SD cards are pretty fast these days. And UHS II is capable of even more. If they put UHS-II people will then question the FPS of the camera. Some product segmentation like this is reasonable. I mean, we can't have a do-everything camera for $2K. 


28MP is nice. To me this is the least important factor. At this stage in the game, if you want MP, you have other cameras to look at like the 5DSR. Either go big or go home, because they are all very similar in the 24 - 30mp range. 

What is important is the newest possible sensor with the best possible ISO and DR performance. 


Touch screren? Great! Tilt screen? Great! No flip out articulating? That's OK...it isn't a video camera, it's mainly for stills. And tilt up/down helps tremendously. 

Think of it this way guys....if you are relying on the articulating screen as your video viewfinder -- then you obviously are not doing serious professional video since you're not mounting the camera to a rig to be more stable. Folks who do that, also get external view finders and mics and grips, and external recording devices and all kinds of other stuff which allows them to extract the most quality out of the sensor as possible.

If you're not doing that, your on-the-go video is not going to be as smooth, which negates any advantage of FF. Therefore, you might as well just get an 80D for the amateurish video anyway. Or better yet, an G40 camcorder. Those are nice.


6D2 will likely lack some other pro type features found in the 5D4, but that is OK. At the end of the day - the specs are looking very good and if these hold up, Canon will have my $2000 as soon as preorders are available.

6D2 will sell like crazy. A 6D2 with these specs and some of the hopeful specs I mentioned above will bring NEW people over to Canon. 

There will also be plenty of Nikon defectors who have been salivating to use some of the great Canon glass, but weren't impressed by the bodies. The Nikonians drool over the 50 1.2 and others...These are people with a APS-C or older Nikon FF who haven't yet invested in a complete FF frame lens lineup. They are full time or part time local type pros working. They often use 3rd party lenses and might only have 1 or 2 pro glass. They haven't commited to all Nikon glass, because they aren't committed long term to that system. That's the market. Those people ready to upgrade to something new and a solid system will ditch Nikon. 

Canon is a better overall system for churning out jobs. Those who actually work for a living know that nonsense like 1ev more DR at ISO 100 is practically useless in the real world. Canon is more attractive to them for various reasons, but it is not attractive at a $3,300 entry price for body only. Now, for that price they'll be able to get into FF Canon and have money for the 50 1.2 ...this is a big difference at a starting point.


----------



## K (Jan 18, 2017)

jeffa4444 said:


> This has been my consistent wish list based on extensive use of the current 6D since 2013 and taking other Canon developments into consideration since its launch.
> 
> 28MP dual pixel sensor
> 45 point cross type AF (centre dual-cross type)
> ...




While your specs are NOT unreasonable given we're in 2017, and given the trends in other cameras and knowing Canon's history -- these specs make the 6D2 too strong and you have to ask yourself...who will buy the 5D4 with 6D2 specs like that?


What is it about the 5D4 that will warrant an additional $1,300? 

I'm thinking they go for -

5 FPS + small buffer
45pt AF at best...still a chance they do a 19pt system (yuck!!!)
No 100% viewfinder, but closer than the 6D was.
1/180 Sync Speed
1/4000 Shutter 
Same as 6D weather sealing.


Some of the above are key enough to deter serious pros from using this as a cheaper alternative. Big thing is the sync speed and max shutter. This is a huge sign that says NOT FOR YOU for certain market segments. And that's ok. The 6D2 isn't going to be intended to be a serious studio camera. On the FPS, it isn't supposed to compete with the 5D4 as the ultimate events camera (like weddings). 


It will have all the connectivity features for sure. Antiflicker too. New menus. These are not features that create market separation.


----------



## Luds34 (Jan 18, 2017)

hubie said:


> Interesting to see how a lot of people are daydreaming about 80D like AF capabilities, fps like crazy, exorbitant price increases (because of fancy spec speculations) etc. Just a lot to feel let down about after the camera's presentation... :-\
> 
> There will be a reason why the camera costs less than a 5D mk IV. I guess it will be excellent for stills and may be have some proper video capabilities (perhaps even 4k, though i dont't expect that) due to the flippy screen. That's it. For Sports you better keep using your 70/80D, 7D/mk II or 1DX/mk II's, for wildlife at it's best similarly.



Except that it is a $2000 camera (without a lens). Sure it's not a pro level action camera where I expect to spray 40 shots in a few seconds and capture that perfect point where the bald eagle has the wings spread to perfection. However to imply that it shouldn't be able to do action, as in unable to track a moving subject is nonsense. Not today when any decent camera costing far less can do it.

And I've made this point before. With the release cycle of the xD cameras, not only does this new 6D2 need to look good today, it needs to hold up and look good 3 years from now. The current 6D when it debuted came with a weak AF system. Today it looks quite dated. I suspect Canon won't make that mistake this time.

Put simply, tell someone today that they spent $2k+ on a camera, oh but it will struggle to get sharp pictures of your kids running around is probably unacceptable.


----------



## j-nord (Jan 18, 2017)

Specs are just enough to tickle my fancy. 27-28 m-pix effective is about my cut off for considering it, less any moderate fps bump (Unlikely). Dual SD, tilt screen, DPAF, touch screen, etc were all expected but good to hear getting re-enforced as we get closer.


----------



## jeffa4444 (Jan 18, 2017)

K said:


> jeffa4444 said:
> 
> 
> > This has been my consistent wish list based on extensive use of the current 6D since 2013 and taking other Canon developments into consideration since its launch.
> ...



For Pros having a camera that's good for 150K actuations is important the 6D MKII will be limited to 100K as present, the 61 point AF with its 41 cross type, 5 dual cross type at f2.8 and 21 AF points at f8 are features we will not see in the 6D MKII along with the AF options for tracking etc, better metering, better weather sealing, better video with headphones as well as mic etc. will all be points to justify the differences of the 5D MKIV the way I see it we should compare the 80D to the 7D MKII and think full frame.


----------



## Mikehit (Jan 18, 2017)

Luds34 said:


> Except that it is a $2000 camera (without a lens). Sure it's not a pro level action camera where I expect to spray 40 shots in a few seconds and capture that perfect point where the bald eagle has the wings spread to perfection. However to imply that it shouldn't be able to do action, as in unable to track a moving subject is nonsense. Not today when any decent camera costing far less can do it.
> 
> And I've made this point before. With the release cycle of the xD cameras, not only does this new 6D2 need to look good today, it needs to hold up and look good 3 years from now. The current 6D when it debuted came with a weak AF system. Today it looks quite dated. I suspect Canon won't make that mistake this time.
> 
> Put simply, tell someone today that they spent $2k+ on a camera, oh but it will struggle to get sharp pictures of your kids running around is probably unacceptable.



Even the current 6D is pretty good at tracking - that is not a problem provided you can keep the AF point on the subject, and it is the options on AF points wher the 5DIV and 1Dx2 win out. Can you use the 6D for sports? Certainly but the other two increase the keeper rate.

So yes, the 6D can give you sharp pictures of your kids running round.


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## Maiaibing (Jan 18, 2017)

Luds34 said:


> The current 6D when it debuted came with a weak AF system. Today it looks quite dated. I suspect Canon won't make that mistake this time.
> 
> Put simply, tell someone today that they spent $2k+ on a camera, oh but it will struggle to get sharp pictures of your kids running around is probably unacceptable.


If you cannot get pin sharp shots of a kid running around with the 6D you need to learn how to use your camera.


----------



## ahsanford (Jan 18, 2017)

K said:


> What is it about the 5D4 that will warrant an additional $1,300?
> 
> I'm thinking they go for -
> 
> ...



I'm with you 100% on the $1,300 question. 

But even mid-level crop rigs like the 80D got 1/8000 shutter, so one expects the 6D2 to get it as well.

Sync speed is all over the map for Canon:

1D series = 1/250
5D series = 1/200
6D1 = 1/180
7D series / XXD = 1/250 (Why?! Because crop needs faster shutter speeds?)

My guess is the 6D2 will be 1/180 again as a petty nerf to the 5D4.

But I think they'll step up to 5.5 or 6 fps because 'Mk II must improve!' and there it will be -- a camera 60% the price of the 6D4 that it only 1-1.5 fps slower. That's much more an indictment of the nerfing of the 5D4 with its modest 7 fps than it is a poor 6D2 decision, IMHO.

- A


----------



## vscd (Jan 18, 2017)

Tilt screen and 1/4000... stays an amateurcam


----------



## NancyP (Jan 18, 2017)

I wonder if the tilt LCD will be compatible with L brackets. The swing-out LCD of the 60D does not have further articulation when used with the usual one-piece L bracket. Because I use a tripod very frequently, I would rather have a plain tilt allowing below-eye-level use of LCD and keep L bracket compatibility. I haven't tried to transmit the liveview image to a cell phone or other external screen.

A better sensor would be huge. More stops of dynamic range is more important to me than more resolution. Lack of pattern noise is also important. The 6D is my night camera as well as all around landscape, macro, slow-moving nature photography camera.


----------



## ahsanford (Jan 18, 2017)

NancyP said:


> I wonder if the tilt LCD will be compatible with L brackets. The swing-out LCD of the 60D does not have further articulation when used with the usual one-piece L bracket. Because I use a tripod very frequently, I would rather have a plain tilt allowing below-eye-level use of LCD and keep L bracket compatibility. I haven't tried to transmit the liveview image to a cell phone or other external screen.



I hear you -- and the L bracket comment is fair -- but as we seem to be laying off photographers from news agencies left and right, reporters are morphing into their own photojournalists. One might imagine that any tilty-flippy screen needs to be able to face front. That's less for selfies than it might be for vlogging, turning in a reportage assignment, etc.

I could be wrong, though. Perhaps a tilty-flippy really is all about ergonomic comfort with video and stills shooting near the ground and above one's head.

- A


----------



## slclick (Jan 18, 2017)

Luds34 said:


> hubie said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting to see how a lot of people are daydreaming about 80D like AF capabilities, fps like crazy, exorbitant price increases (because of fancy spec speculations) etc. Just a lot to feel let down about after the camera's presentation... :-\
> ...



Time. The master of us all. 

Upon launch like with all things, there was quite a bit of grumbling. Yet now, there are so many great owner stories of their love of the 6D and what it has been capable of in their hands. 

I tend to ignore the hard pendulum swings when it comes to rumors and launches of new lenses and bodies....the dust settles and then the informed and experienced share their wisdom. That's the tasty fruit first adopters miss out on.


----------



## hmatthes (Jan 18, 2017)

As a very happy 6D owner I will gladly buy the 6D-II just to have two bodies again.
*My wish list is very simple:*
24~28 MP is all I need.
45 point AF with wide pattern is ideal for landscapes and nature. Nine points is horrible!
Dual SD slots will be nice. No CF required.
Weather sealing should be improved. Most of my L glass can take a bit of rain, the 6D makes me nervous in rain.
Flippy-dippy screen is of no interest. Rarely used on my 70D, not missed on 6D.
ISO from 50~50,000 with near-noiseless 6400 (maybe 12,800) -- my Leica Q has this and is amazing at night.
Four custom settings instead of two.
*Never happen but if only...:*
Focus peaking hybrid viewfinder. DPAF derived, overlay display in viewfinder = happy focus touch-up in realtime.

One can dream...


----------



## captainkanji (Jan 18, 2017)

I hope it doesn't have an AA filter, but if they are prioritizing video, this prob won't happen.


----------



## slclick (Jan 18, 2017)

captainkanji said:


> I hope it doesn't have an AA filter, but if they are prioritizing video, this prob won't happen.



I don't think it's going to be a priority, the Mark 1 wasn't. I think the 6D is the closest thing to a stills body Canon has put out in a long time. Sure they include it but it costs nearly nothing and then you don't alienate that segment of buyers. Landscape & Macro...that's the target.


----------



## Luds34 (Jan 18, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> Luds34 said:
> 
> 
> > Except that it is a $2000 camera (without a lens). Sure it's not a pro level action camera where I expect to spray 40 shots in a few seconds and capture that perfect point where the bald eagle has the wings spread to perfection. However to imply that it shouldn't be able to do action, as in unable to track a moving subject is nonsense. Not today when any decent camera costing far less can do it.
> ...



I personally rarely go into continuous shooting and therefore don't need the high frame rate. I'd much rather go the route of solid tracking and clicking of a few single shots here and there and counting on them being in focus. The 6D tracks well with the center point, but that is it. The center point gives very poor composition for many shots if one is tracking on the head/face/eye.


----------



## Luds34 (Jan 18, 2017)

Maiaibing said:


> If you cannot get pin sharp shots of a kid running around with the 6D you need to learn how to use your camera.



Yeah, you got me, I don't know how to use my camera. :


----------



## hubie (Jan 18, 2017)

Luds34 said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > If you cannot get pin sharp shots of a kid running around with the 6D you need to learn how to use your camera.
> ...



If in fact that is what you have trouble with, then you took the afflictive truth with a grain of salt .


----------



## Mikehit (Jan 18, 2017)

Luds34 said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > Luds34 said:
> ...



Exactly. The question comes how much does a camera cost to have a full frame sensor with the AF options of (for example) the 5D3. If you don't mind the camera costing $2,8000 then you have a 5D3 model rebadged as a 6D model. If you want the 6D2 as an 'entry level' FF camera then it may well be out of the question.
The thing is, for all this blather about 6D2 specs, no-one has really decided what the ethos behind the 6D2 is. If it is to provide FF overlap with something like the 7D2 then giving it that level of AF is highly unlikely.


----------



## Tangent (Jan 18, 2017)

captainkanji said:


> I hope it doesn't have an AA filter, but if they are prioritizing video, this prob won't happen.



Wasn't there a patent about adjustable AA? Turn it off for landscape. Turn it on for portraits or video. That would be very nice to have in 6D mkII.


----------



## ahsanford (Jan 18, 2017)

Tangent said:


> captainkanji said:
> 
> 
> > I hope it doesn't have an AA filter, but if they are prioritizing video, this prob won't happen.
> ...



...any camera would love that feature. One would think that if Canon could seamlessly implement such a feature, they'd save it to be first released with a 1D-level model.

- A


----------



## Luds34 (Jan 18, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> Luds34 said:
> 
> 
> > I personally rarely go into continuous shooting and therefore don't need the high frame rate. I'd much rather go the route of solid tracking and clicking of a few single shots here and there and counting on them being in focus. The 6D tracks well with the center point, but that is it. The center point gives very poor composition for many shots if one is tracking on the head/face/eye.
> ...



And I don't think anyone expects or is even demanding 7D2 level of AF performance.

What is the FF upgrade worth? $500? $1000? $2000? Let's take an 80D as an example. It's basically a $1000 camera that has pretty solid AF system. I'd argue that one could expect the 6D to have similar features, build quality, ergonomics, size to the xxD line but just in a full frame version. So I don't think it's unreasonable to expect a decent AF system in the new 6D. 

The other thing is that even the Rebel comes with a better AF system then the current 6D has. And frankly I'd be more then happy with one of those 19 point systems, as long as we have some separation among them (I greatly enjoyed the 19 point all cross type system when I owned a 70D).

Basically what I really just want to be able to do with my 6D (and I doubt I'm alone in this) is to be able to reliably track a subject with outer focal points with fast glass ( 85/1.8 135/2 70-200/2.8 ).


----------



## Otara (Jan 18, 2017)

Luds34 said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > If you cannot get pin sharp shots of a kid running around with the 6D you need to learn how to use your camera.
> ...



I dont seem to need this 'learning' when Im using my other cameras that have had more reliable off-centre AF points. People can get pin-sharp moving shots with manual focus so in theory no matter what AF we have you can always get a sharp shot, but that doesnt mean most people would be happy with better AF options than the current 6D.


----------



## eguzowski (Jan 18, 2017)

If it's not 4k then it's already dead. 4k is only 8mp and a standard in all competitors still photo cameras (even the iPhone). The Panasonic GH5 is a beast of a little camera for stills and video and Canon needs to wither step it up or perish. I'm not loyal to any camera company and I don't mind dumping glass if need be. As a wedding photographer and videographer I need convenience quality. I use two cameras for still and 3 for video. 4k allows my wide camera to act like two cameras (2x crops) during the ceremony, intros, and toasts. I was a photojournalist for 10 years for The New York Times, Associated Press etc and today this camera with 4k video, frame grabs would be a must for in photojournalist (many PJ's shoot photo and video now). There is NO need for in increase in MP! Wedding photographers and photojournalists do NOT need more MP...a wedding photographer shoots 2500-5000 raw images at a wedding and we don't need to process more MP....20MP is plenty (and is even enough for 8K video!). We also love to shoot images at the lowest available lighting situations handheld and more MP equals more noise...save the giant MP cameras for another specialty line of cameras. I'm buying a panasonic GH5 and wish the 6D or 5D4 had similar specs (I own a 5D3 and prefer the video straight out of my 70D)....5D4 is a lemon. yes...the gh5 is a small sensor but so is my 70D and it shoots clean video and I use faster glass. I son't get Canon? revoultionize the market and then start a new Cine line and make a ton of $...then stick a slow SD card slot in the 5D3, be forced by magic lantern to change 5d3 firmware, 5D4 gets a crappy 4k codec and 1.7 crop, (make a 70D with sharper cleaner video, swivel screen, touch screen AF) then a camera that costs more (5d3)? ...shadow highlight depth of Nikon...nope. I'm looking at you Panasonic and Sony and thankful that you have stepped up to the batters box and are home run hitters with a high batting average...may be time to bench Canon.


----------



## rrcphoto (Jan 18, 2017)

eguzowski said:


> If it's not 4k then it's already dead. 4k is only 8mp and a standard in all competitors still photo cameras (even the iPhone). The Panasonic GH5 is a beast of a little camera for stills and video and Canon needs to wither step it up or perish.



then go get a GH5.. 
: : :


----------



## rrcphoto (Jan 18, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> Luds34 said:
> 
> 
> > Mikehit said:
> ...



there's also an issue of size, the more complex the AF sensor, the more room I do believe it takes up under the mirrorbox assembly.


----------



## ahsanford (Jan 18, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> eguzowski said:
> 
> 
> > If it's not 4k then it's already dead. 4k is only 8mp and a standard in all competitors still photo cameras (even the iPhone). The Panasonic GH5 is a beast of a little camera for stills and video and Canon needs to wither step it up or perish.
> ...



Seriously. If you...


Don't need to shoot north of ISO 800
Don't need a depth of field smaller than 1 ft / 30 cm for portraiture
Don't need more than 20 MP
Don't need to nail moving targets
Don't need access to the world's largest portfolio of lenses, flashes and third party accessories
_
...then knock yourself out and get a GH5._

The rest of us kind of *do* need some of things above and aren't so petty or binary as to declare a product DOA unless it is perfectly tailored to our sensibilities and priorities.

- A


----------



## slclick (Jan 18, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > eguzowski said:
> ...



DOA rumor specs posts always get me popping popcorn. Keep 'em coming!



edit: Any minute now someone will say it's DOA for not having AFMA customizable for different C1-3 settings.


----------



## Aussie shooter (Jan 18, 2017)

eguzowski said:


> If it's not 4k then it's already dead. 4k is only 8mp and a standard in all competitors still photo cameras (even the iPhone). The Panasonic GH5 is a beast of a little camera for stills and video and Canon needs to wither step it up or perish. I'm not loyal to any camera company and I don't mind dumping glass if need be. As a wedding photographer and videographer I need convenience quality. I use two cameras for still and 3 for video. 4k allows my wide camera to act like two cameras (2x crops) during the ceremony, intros, and toasts. I was a photojournalist for 10 years for The New York Times, Associated Press etc and today this camera with 4k video, frame grabs would be a must for in photojournalist (many PJ's shoot photo and video now). There is NO need for in increase in MP! Wedding photographers and photojournalists do NOT need more MP...a wedding photographer shoots 2500-5000 raw images at a wedding and we don't need to process more MP....20MP is plenty (and is even enough for 8K video!). We also love to shoot images at the lowest available lighting situations handheld and more MP equals more noise...save the giant MP cameras for another specialty line of cameras. I'm buying a panasonic GH5 and wish the 6D or 5D4 had similar specs (I own a 5D3 and prefer the video straight out of my 70D)....5D4 is a lemon. yes...the gh5 is a small sensor but so is my 70D and it shoots clean video and I use faster glass. I son't get Canon? revoultionize the market and then start a new Cine line and make a ton of $...then stick a slow SD card slot in the 5D3, be forced by magic lantern to change 5d3 firmware, 5D4 gets a crappy 4k codec and 1.7 crop, (make a 70D with sharper cleaner video, swivel screen, touch screen AF) then a camera that costs more (5d3)? ...shadow highlight depth of Nikon...nope. I'm looking at you Panasonic and Sony and thankful that you have stepped up to the batters box and are home run hitters with a high batting average...may be time to bench Canon.



No offense but if you are a pro then fork out and buy a pro camera. Stop asking for all the bells and whistles which end up making an entry level camera into an unafordable pro camera.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jan 18, 2017)

eguzowski said:


> If it's not 4k then it's already dead. 4k is only 8mp and a standard in all competitors still photo cameras (even the iPhone). The Panasonic GH5 is a beast of a little camera for stills and video and Canon needs to wither step it up or perish. I'm not loyal to any camera company and I don't mind dumping glass if need be. As a wedding photographer and videographer I need convenience quality. I use two cameras for still and 3 for video. 4k allows my wide camera to act like two cameras (2x crops) during the ceremony, intros, and toasts. I was a photojournalist for 10 years for The New York Times, Associated Press etc and today this camera with 4k video, frame grabs would be a must for in photojournalist (many PJ's shoot photo and video now). There is NO need for in increase in MP! Wedding photographers and photojournalists do NOT need more MP...a wedding photographer shoots 2500-5000 raw images at a wedding and we don't need to process more MP....20MP is plenty (and is even enough for 8K video!). We also love to shoot images at the lowest available lighting situations handheld and more MP equals more noise...save the giant MP cameras for another specialty line of cameras. I'm buying a panasonic GH5 and wish the 6D or 5D4 had similar specs (I own a 5D3 and prefer the video straight out of my 70D)....5D4 is a lemon. yes...the gh5 is a small sensor but so is my 70D and it shoots clean video and I use faster glass. I son't get Canon? revoultionize the market and then start a new Cine line and make a ton of $...then stick a slow SD card slot in the 5D3, be forced by magic lantern to change 5d3 firmware, 5D4 gets a crappy 4k codec and 1.7 crop, (make a 70D with sharper cleaner video, swivel screen, touch screen AF) then a camera that costs more (5d3)? ...shadow highlight depth of Nikon...nope. I'm looking at you Panasonic and Sony and thankful that you have stepped up to the batters box and are home run hitters with a high batting average...may be time to bench Canon.



No it isn't! 8K is 33MP or 7680 x 4320 pixels.


----------



## ahsanford (Jan 18, 2017)

Aussie shooter said:


> No offense but if you are a pro then fork out and buy a pro camera. Stop asking for all the bells and whistles which end up making an entry level camera into an unafordable pro camera.



That's not quite what he's asking for. 

He's asking Canon to stop adding pixels to SLRs and prioritize video as the end-all be-all -- a Nikon D700 level of detail with a Sony A7S II level of video capability, if you will. You actually can make something like that camera for $2k. (It's called the GH5.)

His request is not out of place. It's just out of place for a FF SLR, a segment which has yet to demonstrate that business is won or lost without 4K despite what many people choose to rant about on online forums. This segment still cares much much more about stills quality than it does about video.

Mind you -- I'm not belittling the legitimacy of his personal need or his worldview. I'm simply saying he's in a decided minority for _this_ (6D2) class of camera. 

- A


----------



## unfocused (Jan 18, 2017)

Luds34 said:


> ...With the release cycle of the xD cameras, not only does this new 6D2 need to look good today, it needs to hold up and look good 3 years from now. The current 6D when it debuted came with a weak AF system. Today it looks quite dated. I suspect Canon won't make that mistake this time.



Hmmm. Currently Number 11 on Amazon's best selling DSLR list. 5DIV is #5 and 5DIII is #6. The next closest full frame competitor (other than Canon) is the Nikon D750 at #16. So, as "quite dated" as it is, it is still outselling any other brand's full frame body and holding it's own against the 5DIV. I'm sure Canon would be quite happy to repeat that "mistake."


----------



## ahsanford (Jan 18, 2017)

unfocused said:


> Hmmm. Currently Number 11 on Amazon's best selling DSLR list. 5DIV is #5 and 5DIII is #6. The next closest full frame competitor (other than Canon) is the Nikon D750 at #16. So, as "quite dated" as it is, it is still outselling any other brand's full frame body and holding it's own against the 5DIV. I'm sure Canon would be quite happy to repeat that "mistake."



Sure, the 6D sold well, but consider the 6D did not retain it's initial asking price nearly as well as other cameras it sells. That's not 'proof' the 6D AF is a problem, so much as a testament that the camera is on aggregate less sexy than it could be, that other products offer more value in comparison, etc.

And the last time Canon underpegged an AF system on a FF rig -- the 5D2 -- they listened to their customers and improved it considerably. Though they are different class-level products, there are parallels between the 5D2, 7D1 and 6D1 AF situation -- people want more and Canon gave it to them with the next model. So I expect Canon to make a nontrivial AF upgrade with the 6D2.

- A


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 18, 2017)

eguzowski said:


> If it's not 4k then it's already dead. 4k is only 8mp and a standard in all competitors still photo cameras (even the iPhone).



Egad, man...you have critical information like this and you're not going to act on it? Call Canon. Go to Tokyo and shout it from the rooftops. You have a social and ethical responsibility to all those Canon workers whose families will starve unless you get this critical knowledge to Canon before it's too late and they're *******!!!!!

:


----------



## FramerMCB (Jan 19, 2017)

da_guy2 said:


> Any word on upgrades to the focus system? That's my biggest complaint about the current 6D and what (in my opinion) really needs an upgrade.



If the 6D Mk II is getting a touchscreen LCD along with DPAF, the autofocus has to be upgraded to utilize this technology. Especially if it will have (assumed to be so) the ability to autofocus where you touch the screen... It remains to be seen however, if it will have both DPAF as well as PDAF like the 5D Mk IV.


----------



## rrcphoto (Jan 19, 2017)

Aussie shooter said:


> eguzowski said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



this.

I'd be surprised if it has 4K at all.

Until Canon managed to merge DIGIC DV and DIGIC 7-8-9-10 whathaveyou together into one package, and get the firmware working for that, we're probably S.O.L. or have backed 4K options such as with the 1DXII and 5DIV.

continually begging and acting as if a stills camera is DOA because it doesn't act like a camcorder seems.. stupid.

not to mention, if you want a hybrid, get a mirrorless - a optical viewfinder camera simply isn't as good. period.

which is another reason I wonder why people whine about video on the canon / nikon DSLR's.


----------



## rrcphoto (Jan 19, 2017)

unfocused said:


> Luds34 said:
> 
> 
> > ...With the release cycle of the xD cameras, not only does this new 6D2 need to look good today, it needs to hold up and look good 3 years from now. The current 6D when it debuted came with a weak AF system. Today it looks quite dated. I suspect Canon won't make that mistake this time.
> ...



This.

the 6D sold well, because it simply worked and was a charm to use according to it's fans. I doubt that canon will change that strategy much. it will work, people will say it's a flop, DOA, dumb Canon, stupid Canon, I'm giving up and moving to Sony/Nikon/Panasonic/Fuji/Kodak/Tonka/Lego/Ikea .. and a few months will pass, and people that actually bought it will discover it's a great camera to use.

Rinse and repeat for every canon camera release.


----------



## Woody (Jan 19, 2017)

eguzowski said:


> If it's not 4k then it's already dead. 4k is only 8mp and a standard in all competitors still photo cameras (even the iPhone). The Panasonic GH5 is a beast of a little camera for stills and video and Canon needs to wither step it up or perish.



Panasonic market shares for MILCs in Japan:
2010 - 38.7%
2011 - 29.3%
2012 - 23.3%
2013 - 14.2%
2014 - 11.9%
2015 - negligible, below top 3
2016 - negligible, below top 3

Canon market shares for MILCs in Japan:
2010-2014 - negligible, below top 3
2015 - 13.6%
2016 - 18.5%

Hmmm... Looks like 4k video in GH4, GH5 ain't helping Panasonic. So, tell me again, who is perishing?


----------



## Luds34 (Jan 19, 2017)

unfocused said:


> Luds34 said:
> 
> 
> > ...With the release cycle of the xD cameras, not only does this new 6D2 need to look good today, it needs to hold up and look good 3 years from now. The current 6D when it debuted came with a weak AF system. Today it looks quite dated. I suspect Canon won't make that mistake this time.
> ...



My apologies. I got confused and thought this was photography gear enthusiast site. I didn't realize this was a Canon shareholder meeting.  Toyota sells a ton of Camry's, doesn't mean it's a vehicle any car enthusiast would want to own.

But I'll bite for a moment. Let's play corporate America. Let's throw out that you are using completely flawed ranks from Amazon with no real numbers behind it (#1 camera at one point in a category was unreleased). The Canon 6D was a success. However, how much more of a success would it have been, how much more money would they have made if they hadn't intentionally crippled the AF system so much? From a pure bill of materials perspective I can't imagine the actual unit cost being much greater with 19 or 40 something AF system. But the value it adds in the consumer's eyes? Geez, 6D's might still be retailing for close to $2k instead of going for $1200.

So, just because a product is selling and making a company money, a success if you will, doesn't mean they played it optimally, that they didn't leave money on the table. Canon probably knows as well as anyone and I'm sure they hit pretty close to target... but I'm guessing they know they went too conservative on the AF system and it cost them in the margins they made on each unit and the number of units sold.

$2k is a good chunk of money for a camera, especially body only. Competition has some strong offerings out there. And Canon invests some pretty good coin into market research, voice of the customer, market segmentation. I think we'll all be pretty happy with what actually gets delivered with the 6D2. I suspect it will be a very solid camera and it will come with a pretty good AF system. You know, because as I said earlier, Canon won't want to repeat the mistake of misjudging and overly crippling the AF as they did in the mark 1.


----------



## Luds34 (Jan 19, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Luds34 said:
> ...



I don't believe you were implying I was saying "flop, DOA, dumb Canon, stupid Canon", just more speaking in general to the Canon haters. However in case you were I just want to reiterate I was merely making a couple simple points. 

One, Canon has some of the longest product release cycles in the industry. Right... so on the higher end stuff, we're looking at 5 years or so. Therefore what they release needs to "hold up", "be competitive", etc. for a while. 

Two, obviously it's technically a subjective statement, but one I feel many would agree with, the current 6D has a "quite dated" AF system. Aka, the AF system they chose at design time did not hold up as well through the life of the product as I'm sure Canon would have initially hoped. And please understand, as a whole I really enjoy my 6D and the glass I mount on there. But, I think that even solid Canon fans, if they paused and were honest, would agree with my statement. For the class of camera it is... the AF system is showing it's age and then some, especially where the competition has gone since the development and release of the original 6D.

Therefore, I think the AF on the new 6D2 will be quite satisfactory, at least for myself, and my use cases. I'm frankly looking forward to it and may even break my typical pre-order rule.


----------



## tron (Jan 19, 2017)

eguzowski said:


> If it's not 4k then it's already dead.


Can I have an already dead 6DMkII with 24-28Mp, 6fps, better DR and high iso performance? Thanks ;D


----------



## dflt (Jan 19, 2017)

People demand all kinds of features for an entry level FF dslr, but they are not market specialists, they don't have statistics, proper numbers for what people want. Canon does. And yet they slam themselves into the ground if their expectations are not met.


----------



## LesC (Jan 19, 2017)

We all have different requirements too - for example I only ever use the centre focus point (& recompose) on my 6D & I've never used thew video function .....


----------



## Diko (Jan 19, 2017)

My take is:

* 28 MP. 
* A stop below 5D4 in ISO.
* DR as 5D4 (same tech in CMOS censor)
* DPAF
* Stupid DualRAW ver. 1.2
* DIGIC7 -> here we can observe a few new software tricks and ideas due to the new CPU functions encoded
* Tilt 3.2" or 3" screen (I bet on 3" due to smaller body)
* Single card reader (this is an entry level FF, remember?)
* Plastic-is-fantastic body
* 5 fps
* Wifi
* GPS (bonus.... eventually, but I bet there'll be)
* same battery as in 5D4
* 2000 $, €, £.

-> No 4K!

Nothing more, nothing less. A little bit higher than the previous one as promised. But not enough to cannibalize 5D4.


----------



## Steve Balcombe (Jan 19, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> the 6D sold well, because it simply worked and was a charm to use according to it's fans. I doubt that canon will change that strategy much.



The 6D sold (sells) well because Canon realised there was a market for a body with an excellent full frame sensor and not much else of note, for what is by full frame standards an entry-level price. 

The 6D2 needs to continue in the same spirit, and I am sure it will. Expectations are much higher now than in 2012 of course, and give or take a few details the 'full frame 80D' many of us are anticipating will fit the bill.


----------



## IglooEater (Jan 19, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> I'm with you 100% on the $1,300 question.
> 
> But even mid-level crop rigs like the 80D got 1/8000 shutter, so one expects the 6D2 to get it as well.
> 
> ...



I agree, I'd love to see 1/8000 too. No, the sync speed is very logical. The aps-c sensor is smaller - therefore the shutter doesn't have to travel as fast to sync. Take a flash shot at 1/250 on the 6D and I'm willing to bet you'll have at least an aps-c sized section of the sensor illuminated.

Edit: Thought I might affirm that I too would love to see higher sync speeds. Maybe 1/500 as in the original 1D, along with 1/16,000 second ;D


----------



## IglooEater (Jan 19, 2017)

Diko said:


> My take is:
> 
> * 28 MP.
> * A stop below 5D4 in ISO.
> ...



You missed the most critical specification. The only important aspect is the AF system. I'd be happy enough with the 6D exactly as it is with a 45 point af thrown in. In 2017 the competition at </=2000 is not the D610, but the the D750, with its 51point af and 6.5 fps


----------



## SUNDOG04 (Jan 19, 2017)

I like my 6D, use it for landscape and nature work. Don't own a longer telephoto lens to do birds and If I did I would go for a 5DIV. But affording that is too expensive for me.

My only dislike is the focusing. Center point excellent. If I am laying on my belly taking closeups of snakes and salamanders with macro lens, I rely on no-center points for focusing and not re-composing and not live view with manual focus. Even under those conditions, auto-focusing usually works, but sometimes not.

I could care less about wifi or GPS, but that is just me. 

I like the size, not too heavy, and the simplicity. Biggest improvement needs to be the focusing (at least for my purposes) and, obviously that will be improved.


----------



## jeffa4444 (Jan 19, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Hmmm. Currently Number 11 on Amazon's best selling DSLR list. 5DIV is #5 and 5DIII is #6. The next closest full frame competitor (other than Canon) is the Nikon D750 at #16. So, as "quite dated" as it is, it is still outselling any other brand's full frame body and holding it's own against the 5DIV. I'm sure Canon would be quite happy to repeat that "mistake."
> ...



The worst camera for retaining its initial asking price is the 7D MKII given its the top of the range crop camera its very close to the price of the 80D which whilst newer is not seen as a pro camera. 
The 6D used mainly older technology even at launch aside from the sensor itself so the R&D costs were lower and they could likely afford to see a bigger price drop. 
Canon has positioned the 5D MKIV higher than the MKIII and both the 5DS / 5DSr have dropped far less since their launch than the 5D MKIII did. My take is Canon will try to push the pricing up on the 6D MKII and try & retain a better price longer term but it can only do that if the specification justifies the initial increase and keeping it close to launch pricing.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 19, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> But even mid-level crop rigs like the 80D got 1/8000 shutter, so one expects the 6D2 to get it as well.
> 
> Sync speed is all over the map for Canon:
> 
> ...



The Xsync is the fastest shutter speed at which the sensor is fully exposed, in other words when the first curtain completes its traverse before the second curtain starts moving. Smaller sensors mean less distance to travel, and more robust shutters can move the curtains faster, both of which translate to higher Xsync speeds. So, while they may appear to be 'all over the map', the speeds are actually quite logical given the sensor sizes and shutter properties. 

For FF, the 1-series has a more powerful shutter motor than the 5-series, so even though both achieve the same max shutter speed (1/8000 s), the 1-series has a faster Xsync. The 6D has a weaker shutter motor that can only achieve 1/4000 s, and it's Xsync is correspondingly slower. The 1DIV has a 1/300 s Xsync because of its smaller APS-H sensor (the original 1D had 1/500 s, possible because of the CCD sensor). 

The xxD line has had 1/8000 s max back to the 20D, and a 1/250 s Xsync to go with it. But the 1300D/T6 has a 1/4000 s max, and a 1/200 s Xsync. 

So, if the 6DII has a 1/4000 s max, it'll remain at 1/180 s, and if they bump it to 1/8000 s, it will also get a 1/200 s Xsync.


----------



## Luds34 (Jan 19, 2017)

dflt said:


> People demand all kinds of features for an entry level FF dslr, but they are not market specialists, they don't have statistics, proper numbers for what people want. Canon does. And yet they slam themselves into the ground if their expectations are not met.



Since when is a $2k camera entry level? The fact alone that it is a full frame camera already differentiates it as a higher end product. "Entry level full frame" is kind of an oxymoron.


----------



## K (Jan 19, 2017)

Woody said:


> eguzowski said:
> 
> 
> > If it's not 4k then it's already dead. 4k is only 8mp and a standard in all competitors still photo cameras (even the iPhone). The Panasonic GH5 is a beast of a little camera for stills and video and Canon needs to wither step it up or perish.
> ...




I believe this phenomenon is not only due to Canon being recognized as a serious camera and optics (imaging) company, whereas Panasonic is an electronic company that makes everything including microwave ovens - and the fact that Canon has more lenses and this and that...

BUT...the internet plays a role. I believe that some manufacturers are actually using the "consensus" on the web, particularly Youtube to form a view of the market place. They cater features and specs to them.

The ONLY place I hear people rave about how great the GH is, is on Youtube. By whom? By Vloggers and Youtube Partners with channels. That's it. And why? Because of the video capability. How it works for them in their home studio. This is a small minority of the market, but one that gets a far, far disproportionate voice in the perception of the camera and video world.

This is the power of media. A few voices can appear to be the voice of millions.

This does not translate into what most everyday people and camera consumers want or need. 

Consumers VOTE with their wallets, always. And almost always by their needs, not what some company is trying to sell them. It's also why cell phone cameras dominate. Meets most people's needs for photos and video.


----------



## jeffa4444 (Jan 19, 2017)

There is another factor that could suggest moving the 6D MKII to being an 80D with a full-frame sensor and thus moving up the pricing to where the outgoing price of the 5D MKIII was will allow room for a FF version of say the 760D (Rebel T6s) as the entry level without weather sealing or part metal body etc. 
That may go someway to explaining the rumoured 77D (sitting under the 80D) and thus its FF equivalent).


----------



## zim (Jan 19, 2017)

Diko said:


> My take is:
> 
> * 28 MP.
> * A stop below 5D4 in ISO.
> ...



I think that looks pretty accurate

______________________________________________
Re the AF, the original 9 point AF was not a mistake by Canon in any way shape or form It gave them wiggle room for an upgrade path that wouldn't catch up with any other camera in their own line up any time soon. A 19pt system all cross type -3ev and f8 on centre point wouldn't surprise me


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## ahsanford (Jan 19, 2017)

IglooEater said:


> I agree, I'd love to see 1/8000 too. No, the sync speed is very logical. The aps-c sensor is smaller - therefore the shutter doesn't have to travel as fast to sync. Take a flash shot at 1/250 on the 6D and I'm willing to bet you'll have at least an aps-c sized section of the sensor illuminated.
> 
> Edit: Thought I might affirm that I too would love to see higher sync speeds. Maybe 1/500 as in the original 1D, along with 1/16,000 second ;D



Igloo, Neuro -- thanks for the education. Make perfect sense.

- A


----------



## Mikehit (Jan 19, 2017)

Luds34 said:


> Since when is a $2k camera entry level?



It is an entry level for full frame. 
IMO once someone got to a level of competence with a camera they often branched into one of two major groups - one is those keen on action photography and that is where the APS-C 7D came in (pixel density for focal limited situations and good tracking AF system). Or they were more interested in portaits/landscape where AF was less important and the FF sensor gave maximum image quality.
So in that respect the 6D was 'entry level'. 





Luds34 said:


> The fact alone that it is a full frame camera already *differentiates it as a higher end product.*



BS. 
If the 6D is 'high end' where does that put the 5DIII (as it was then) and the 1Dx.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 19, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> IMO once someone got to a level of competence with a camera they often branched into one of two major groups - one is those keen on action photography and that is where the APS-C 7D came in (pixel density for focal limited situations and good tracking AF system). Or they were more interested in portaits/landscape where AF was less important and the FF sensor gave maximum image quality.



Or they were interested in both, so they bought both a 7D and a 5DII. Then replaced both with a 1D X. Just sayin'.


----------



## Maiaibing (Jan 19, 2017)

Otara said:


> Luds34 said:
> 
> 
> > Maiaibing said:
> ...


Why do you write about reliable off-centre AF points?

Your kid "running around" is a job for your centre AF point on any camera. 6D's centre AF point is brilliant; fast, accurate, very light sensitive. Using an outer AF point for a kid "running around" would be a poor choice even with the best AF module.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 19, 2017)

Maiaibing said:


> Otara said:
> 
> 
> > Luds34 said:
> ...



Hey, thanks for that! I guess I've been doing it all wrong on my 1D X, using AI Servo and iTR with all 61 AF points to track my kids as they run/ride/cycle/etc. through the frame. Here I've been composing shots with my kids' faces at aesthetically pleasing locations in the frame, and all along I should have them dead-center. 

:


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## ahsanford (Jan 19, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Hey, thanks for that! I guess I've been doing it all wrong on my 1D X, using AI Servo and iTR with all 61 AF points to track my kids as they run/ride/cycle/etc. through the frame. Here I've been composing shots with my kids' faces at aesthetically pleasing locations in the frame, and all along I should have them dead-center.
> 
> :



+1. Just because the kid is moving doesn't mean all composition sensibilities need to go out the window. Off-center AF for the win, yo.

Another need where center point and recompose will punish you is large aperture glass. Shooting a 50mm @ 1.4 and then recomposing is hot disaster sauce. More off-center AF points allow you to realize your compositional goals without having to stop down or get a blurry shot.

The 6D AF needs to improve. It doesn't need to get up to 5D3 levels -- it just needs to get to get halfway there.

- A


----------



## Random Orbits (Jan 19, 2017)

Maiaibing said:


> Why do you write about reliable off-centre AF points?
> 
> Your kid "running around" is a job for your centre AF point on any camera. 6D's centre AF point is brilliant; fast, accurate, very light sensitive. Using an outer AF point for a kid "running around" would be a poor choice even with the best AF module.



That is one of the main reasons why I upgraded from the 5DII to the 5DII -- off center AF capability. The vast majority of the soccer pics I take of the kids' games use the cross outer AF points. Being restricted to the center point results in having to frame a lot looser for cropping and then you're throwing out a lot of IQ with all those cropped pixels.


----------



## Luds34 (Jan 19, 2017)

Doh! You guys beat me to it. I really wanted to get a tongue-in-cheek comment about someone maybe needing to learn how to use those "other" cameras, but the moment has passed. 

When I used a 70D on a regular basis I often used the top, or upper corner focal points and had great success, even with solid action and fast glass. It would give either what I was looking for in composition, or close enough that a slight crop did the trick. Using center point only results in some pretty large crops, especially if on is trying to get a full body shot in. At that point one could be cutting the picture in half.

In any case, I look forward to the 6D2 hopefully giving me that capability again.


----------



## NancyP (Jan 19, 2017)

To tell you the truth, I would have to see a significant improvement in the sensor to be keen on a 6D2. Why? I really like the 6D, and its AF is good enough for me.


----------



## Maiaibing (Jan 19, 2017)

Random Orbits said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > Why do you write about reliable off-centre AF points?
> ...


If you are shooting portraits of your kids playing soccer, outer AF points could of course make sense if they are too close for your available DOF to nail the face when targeting the body. Otherwise you're just making your life difficult for yourself. Bodies are *much *better targets than heads.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 19, 2017)

Maiaibing said:


> If you are shooting portraits of your kids, outer AF points could of course make sense if they are too close for your available DOF to nail the face when targeting the body. Otherwise you're just making your life difficult for yourself. Bodies are *much *better targets than heads.



The old 'f/8 and be there' thing doesn't always work. If I wanted that, I'd use my iPhone. 




EOS 5D Mark II, EF 135mm f/2L USM, 1/1600 s, f/2.2, ISO 100


----------



## ahsanford (Jan 19, 2017)

Maiaibing said:


> If you are shooting portraits of your kids, outer AF points could of course make sense if they are too close for your available DOF to nail the face when targeting the body. Otherwise you're just making your life difficult for yourself. Bodies are *much *better targets than heads.



No one is saying you can't take pictures with a 6D. We're saying we can't take pictures _the way we want to_ with a 6D. 

The limited AF system is a unnecessarily strict constraint that makes certain types of photography difficult to the point that our keeper rate drops, or we have to stop down to minimize the risk of a miss. 

Consider: a _Rebel_ has more AF points than the 6D. There's obviously more to an AF system than the number of points, but at a compositional level, someone slinging a $700 soccer mom rig has more AF flexibility than a $2,099 FF rig. 

Oh wait, it's a _$1,269_ FF rig these days, having diminished in value far faster than other FF rigs with better AF setups. I wonder if the 6D's 'meh' AF system had anything to do with that... : 

- A


----------



## slclick (Jan 19, 2017)

Luds34 said:


> dflt said:
> 
> 
> > People demand all kinds of features for an entry level FF dslr, but they are not market specialists, they don't have statistics, proper numbers for what people want. Canon does. And yet they slam themselves into the ground if their expectations are not met.
> ...



Consider the platform...entry level Porsche, I could go on.


----------



## Random Orbits (Jan 19, 2017)

Maiaibing said:


> Random Orbits said:
> 
> 
> > Maiaibing said:
> ...



I target the head/upper chest logo. The uniforms are mostly monochromatic in the front so contrast is poor and swinging arms get in the way which are definitely out of the DOF. Shooting wide open with 70-200 II or 100-400 II and yes, the DOF is narrow but the 5DIII handles it well, which is something the 5DII did not. Using the center point limits composition if you're not willing to crop heavily or you lose a lot of pixels if you frame that loose to make center point only work -- neither is a great solution. I did it with the 5DII and the 20D before that but there is no way I'd go back to center point only. I could stop down, but that has a different look, and now I don't have to, even with an outer point.


----------



## Don Haines (Jan 19, 2017)

slclick said:


> Luds34 said:
> 
> 
> > dflt said:
> ...


Stop that! You are making sense and using logic! That is against internet rules


----------



## slclick (Jan 19, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > Luds34 said:
> ...



And I'm also ready for when someone says that they want the 6D2 to be EF-M or the next Rebel to be FF. There's a bunch of wildcats here with long wishlists.


----------



## Maiaibing (Jan 19, 2017)

Random Orbits said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > If you are shooting portraits of your kids playing soccer, outer AF points could of course make sense if they are too close for your available DOF to nail the face when targeting the body. Otherwise you're just making your life difficult for yourself. Bodies are *much *better targets than heads.
> ...



Shoot as you are comfortable with. But what you write does not match the optics.

Shooting the 100-400mm zoom for a full body shot your DOF will fit even swinging arms @100mm and wide open - in the very rare circumstances they would distract the 5DIII AF (6D AF and newer models can be set to ignore swinging arms).

Maybe try a few test shots one day on some team training before your boys go on the field. Go for the torso. Will make your shooting much easier if it works for you.

Here 6D in real sports action: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=23146.0


----------



## ahsanford (Jan 20, 2017)

Maiaibing said:


> Shoot as you are comfortable with. But what you write does not match the optics.
> 
> Shooting the 100-400mm zoom for a full body shot your DOF will fit even swinging arms @100mm and wide open - in the very rare circumstances they would distract the 5DIII AF (6D AF and newer models can be set to ignore swinging arms).
> 
> ...



Maiaibing, fair comment about f/4.5 DOF with sports, but I think you are making our point for us: _nearly every shot in that 6D series was center point if my eyes don't deceive me._

There is drama/value/character/perspective to be found in off-center composition, even in sports (not my shot below, but you get my idea). The 6D is not well equipped to reel such shots in.

- A


----------



## Luds34 (Jan 20, 2017)

slclick said:


> Luds34 said:
> 
> 
> > dflt said:
> ...



And does that "entry level Porsche" come with a naturally aspirated 1.6L engine? The 6D has a focus system that would be considered entry level among cameras in general, not just full frame ones. Bottom line, give it what ever label you want, it's a camera that sits in the $2k market segment, it should have a AF system fitting of such segment, not being outclassed by cameras costing a third of the price.


----------



## slclick (Jan 20, 2017)

Luds34 said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > Luds34 said:
> ...



Acceptance of Canon not keeping up with the joneses is mandatory for sanity's sake. It has not been a revolutionary nor reactionary company since the advent of the digital camera but a steady and profitable leader. And fwiw, a rumor spec list and price is not sitting in any market segment. It just sits on rumor forums.


----------



## ricky_005 (Jan 20, 2017)

6D I bought for $1100 a year ago does just fine. Sure better specs would be nice but it does quite well in low light.

Let me say this, and you can go ahead and chisel it in the Head stone now .... This round of Canon Bodies will have a very short production run. Canon will screw you all over within another 2 years with the camera they should have gave you in 2017.

Its never a surprise to me when Canon release new lens or bodies that they lack innovation. A new release is just a slightly modified lens or body and than convince the Canon fanboys it worth double the price. You Canon fanboys should know this by now.


----------



## ahsanford (Jan 20, 2017)

ricky_005 said:


> Let me say this, and you can go ahead and chisel it in the Head stone now .... This round of Canon Bodies will have a very short production run. Canon will screw you all over within another 2 years with the camera they should have gave you in 2017.



You are welcome to say it, but the facts are not on your side. Canon has a decently consistent track record for delivering bodies on a longer timetable than you say.

These times are ballpark, not hard deadlines, but they're fair if you peg the chart below from Northlight.

1DX#-level: 4-ish years 
5DS level: don't know -- first body in that line
5D#-level: 4-4.5 years 
6D level: don't know -- first body in that line, but it can't be less than the 4.5 years we've already waited
7D-level: 5 years
80D-level: 3 years
Rebel-level: Last two gens have been every 2 years (new one about to drop)

EOS M: Too immature to peg. They're still inventing new trimlines for that.

If anything, product lifecycles are getting _longer_ for a host of a reasons. Pick any line on the chart that has a 10 year history and the speed of releases has certainly not increased. 

So Canon breaking our hearts with a Sony-style onslaught of new bodies in quick succession (a) is not in-character for Canon, (b) is financially wasteful for a stable market leader to do, and (c) will tend to have potential customers sit on their money because something new might come if they wait. I just don't see it.

- A


----------



## Maiaibing (Jan 20, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> These times are ballpark, not hard deadlines, but they're fair if you peg the chart below from Northlight.
> 
> 5D#-level: 4-4.5 years
> 
> - A



1) Not sure if the Northlight chart can be trusted(?). Just glancing on it I can see 5DS/R from beginning of 2015 - but is was not launched before June 2015, thus should start at the half-year mark.

2) Both the 5D and 5DII only waited ~3 years for their successor model to emerge.


----------



## ricky_005 (Jan 20, 2017)

Maiaibing said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > These times are ballpark, not hard deadlines, but they're fair if you peg the chart below from Northlight.
> ...



There are rumor already the 5DS/R will be replaced soon ....... 5DS/R will be door stops in another year.


----------



## Maiaibing (Jan 20, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > Shoot as you are comfortable with. But what you write does not match the optics.
> ...



Yes. But my claim was and has been only this: that if one cannot take pin-sharp pictures with a 6D of a "kid running around" - the problem brought up - then one should reconsider how one is shooting.

There are lots of good uses for outer AF points. Having more, stronger and better spread out AF points can only an advantage. Lets hope 6DII gets it. If it does I'll probably go with a 6DII instead of a 5DIV for backup camera.


----------



## Otara (Jan 20, 2017)

Maiaibing said:


> Your kid "running around" is a job for your centre AF point on any camera.



Well that explains a lot.


----------



## brianftpc (Jan 20, 2017)

If it doesnt have 4k it at least has to have uncompressed HDMI out. I dont see how it can be 28mp either. Eventually you have to ask yourself why you'd spend 1600 more on a 5D mk4.


----------



## Diko (Jan 20, 2017)

Maiaibing said:


> Your kid "running around" is a job for your centre AF point on any camera. ... Bodies are *much *better targets than heads.



Why? Actually I find the LiveView Face tracking awesome. And I even talk about taking photos of dogs. You just show what to follow on the awesome Touchscreen (that works with gloves, while my pad andiphone - CAN'T!) and the unpredictable animal is followed just perfectly.



neuroanatomist said:


> The Xsync is the fastest shutter speed at which the sensor is fully exposed, in other words when the first curtain completes its traverse before the second curtain starts moving.... So, if the 6DII has a 1/4000 s max, it'll remain at 1/180 s, and if they bump it to 1/8000 s, it will also get a 1/200 s Xsync.



Who needs it when there's High Speed Flash Sync?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 20, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> ricky_005 said:
> 
> 
> > Let me say this, and you can go ahead and chisel it in the Head stone now .... This round of Canon Bodies will have a very short production run. Canon will screw you all over within another 2 years with the camera they should have gave you in 2017.
> ...



History suggests ricky and facts are poorly acquainted, at best.


----------



## reef58 (Jan 20, 2017)

ricky_005 said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



I guess it could be a doorstop to someone who has no idea how to use it. I am not sure what it is you need from it that it does not do. As long as the electronics hold out it would be a usable camera in 50 years from now. If you cannot make good photographs with a 5d of any generation then a new body may not be the answer.


----------



## Maiaibing (Jan 20, 2017)

Diko said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > Your kid "running around" is a job for your centre AF point on any camera. ... Bodies are *much *better targets than heads.
> ...


Because we were talking selectable AF points. 

You are right we have new options that can be helpful. 5DIV indeed has a very nice live tracking face tracking feature. Not very comfortable using it myself on the 5DIV due to the unhandy fixed screen which makes the camera unwieldy with the relatively large and heavy lenses I tend to use hand held and which (hand holding) you probably often will want to do if shooting a kid "running around". Hope to get the same function on a tilt/swivel screen soon. YMMV.


----------



## ahsanford (Jan 20, 2017)

Maiaibing said:


> 1) Not sure if the Northlight chart can be trusted(?). Just glancing on it I can see 5DS/R from beginning of 2015 - but is was not launched before June 2015, thus should start at the half-year mark.
> 
> 2) Both the 5D and 5DII only waited ~3 years for their successor model to emerge.



No chart is perfect. NL reflects _announcement_ dates and not _shipping_ dates (see the 1DX beating the 5D3, that's consistent with announcement only).

As for the 5d previously being a shorter refresh, back when it was a 3 year refresh, Canon only had 5 lines of cameras. Now they have _13_. So I'm not stating in 4.5 years further a 5D5 will show up. I'm just pegging how it has been trending. 

And note that not a single product line on that chart is accelerating. With the lower end / P&S $$$ of the photography market disintegrating from the rise of cell phones, the entire industry appears to be lengthening its product lifecycles and increasing price. We're seeing m43 rigs -- body only -- for $2k nowadays!

So the chart is not a train schedule, it's a rough trend of activity. I welcome a better one if you are aware of one.

- A


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## ahsanford (Jan 20, 2017)

ricky_005 said:


> There are rumor already the 5DS/R will be replaced soon ....... 5DS/R will be door stops in another year.



Of all the rumors of 'faster refreshes than latest trend' that I might believe, it's the 5DS, and there's a sales reason for that. For the last two major cycles, the cadence has been (roughly):

*1DX-level announcement*
(X months of buzz / marketing push / pre-orders / cameras start shipping / reviews roll in)
*5D#-level announcement*
(X months of buzz / marketing push / pre-orders / cameras start shipping / reviews roll in)
*6D#-level announcement*

But you get the idea: Announce the top line all by itself, gather lots of sales, take a deep breath, and announce the next item down the line. Rinse and repeat.

They did this with the 1DX* - 5D3 - 6D, and everyone on the planet expects them to complete the second round of this with the 1DX2 - 5D4 - 6D2.

*There was an exception to this due to the original 1DX getting delayed by a natural disaster, but it was indeed announced before the 5D3

But the 5DS rigs were an off-cycle major change.  It was not a faster refresh (it was certainly no 5D3 replacement) so much as another card being added to the deck. I think there _may_ be some wisdom in speeding up that specific line's refresh to better fall in line with the 5D line. When you stagger the 5D# and 5DS lines by a couple years, you get feature-set envy that boils peoples' blood. Releasing those cameras in close succession (may be not at the same time) would level-set what each camera gets technology-wise other than it's basic FPS / MP / AF / video differences.

But a 7D3 happening on the quick is only happening if the D500 cleans Canon's clock in the market, and I've seen no data to reflect that. If anything, the recent WiFi update becomes the 'midcycle refresh' like the 7D1 got halfway through it's five year voyage.

- A


----------



## Luds34 (Jan 20, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > ricky_005 said:
> ...



That's great! Thanks for the laugh. 

I know his whole post isn't quoted up there, but what struck me was the bi-polar nature of it. Starts off complimenting Canon on having a product that he's been more than happy with. Then follows up with a mini diatribe on how Canon is going to screw us all! 

At least it's entertaining if nothing else. ;D


----------



## rrcphoto (Jan 20, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > ricky_005 said:
> ...



facts, reality,etc,etc,etc..


----------



## ScottD (Jan 20, 2017)

Just joined the forum. Can't post yet. I was thinking about getting a Nikon D750 vs Canon 6D. Then I came across this forum. Apparently know one knows for sure when the 6D2 will be available but is it fairly likely before mid Summer?

Hope this isn't silly question.

Thank you.
Scott Dunham


----------



## Maiaibing (Jan 20, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > 1) Not sure if the Northlight chart can be trusted(?). Just glancing on it I can see 5DS/R from beginning of 2015 - but is was not launched before June 2015, thus should start at the half-year mark.
> ...


Think the wiki chart is better (both more accurate and showing release dates - which are the most interesting when talking about when the next updates are available): https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EOS

Have no views on predicted timelines. Waited too long for the 5DIV guessing from 5D/5DII/5DIII releases. At least I got lucky that Canon meanwhile decided to build the 5DS/R. Only positive was I got fantastic value for money using my 5DII's for so long.

Canon has previously said they would try to counter the contracting dslr market with more models but longer life cycles (which is why I give <1% credence to a 5DS/R update anytime soon).


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## ken (Jan 20, 2017)

My self-centered view of the world is that I'm *the* target market for the 6D. 

- I'm not a professional photographer, but have plenty of need and use for high quality photos. 
(ex: Real estate photos for my Realtor spouse, advertising photos for her business and mine, etc.) 
- I could easily afford a 5D Mark III or IV, but I don't throw around money casually. (I'm an engineer, so I strive to be practical.)
- Photography is also my hobby, so I'm willing to invest real money into it. 

I bought the original 6D (and therefore into the Canon world) for one primary reason... The Nikon D600 was having an issue with oil spots on the sensor. Lots of unhappy Nikon consumers in 2013. So I bought the 6D and have built up my complement of EF lenses. I hope I never feel the need to move away from Canon, but I could afford to if I ever feel the need to.

The things I've loved about my 6D:
- The form factor. I have large hands, but I still think the 5D series are a bit too big. 
- Architectural and landscape shooting. It's fantastic at this. It's low-light capabilities are fantastic. If the subject isn't moving, it's a fantastic camera.
- Wifi tethering. I use an Android tablet to watch for hummingbirds through the camera (with camera on tripod, prefocused near feeder), and take photos. 
- Making good use of my EF lenses. 

The things I hope to see addressed in a 6D Mark II:
- Better autofocus for moving objects. 
- Dual card support. I know it's not in the same league as wedding shots, but a lot of the real estate photos impact homeowners. (Being there at the right time, the right level of cleanliness, etc. People don't want me coming back.) I've never lost any shots due to a bad card, but I'm always aware of the possibility. And I was paranoid when I was shooting places like Yosemite and San Francisco, since it was quite an expense to get there. (Spent each night backing up to computer and to cloud. Backing up to the cloud is not great on hotel wifi.)
- Better video capability. It's just not great on the 6D. I tend to use my Note 5 phone more often because it's "close enough". Does it have to be 4K? I can't say I'd want it if it takes an hour to get off the camera. 
- A tilt or articulating screen. I use an a6000 for street photos because of the ability to shoot with the camera at chest level. (People stop and stare when you put the camera up to your eye, which ruins a good street shot.) 

I can't say that DPAF is important to me. I just don't see it being much of a game changer. Maybe for macro work? And I hope it doesn't give up it's awesome low-light capability.

Anyway, I've been looking forward to the 6D Mark II for a long time. I hope I don't regret being so bought into the Canon system. I suspect all will be fine.


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## Mikehit (Jan 20, 2017)

ScottD said:


> Just joined the forum. Can't post yet. I was thinking about getting a Nikon D750 vs Canon 6D. Then I came across this forum. Apparently know one knows for sure when the 6D2 will be available but is it fairly likely before mid Summer?
> 
> Hope this isn't silly question.
> 
> ...



Not silly, but unanswerable. Canon have along history of catching people blindside - either with cameras people had no idea were coming or with specifications no-one expected. 
But as mentioned above, announcing it is one thing, date of release is another.


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## rrcphoto (Jan 21, 2017)

Maiaibing said:


> Canon has previously said they would try to counter the contracting dslr market with more models but longer life cycles (which is why I give <1% credence to a 5DS/R update anytime soon).



actually they said more camera bodies, but the CEO feels they are moving too slowly on releases.

where did they say they would do longer release cycles?


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## scyrene (Jan 21, 2017)

Berowne said:


> I purchased just now a 6D. It was always a bargain and I think we will never again see such an inexpensive Canon FF-Body.



I dunno. I wouldn't be at all surprised if they squeeze an ultra-budget FF camera at the bottom of the lineup. Depends how much the 6D2's price increases by.


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## scyrene (Jan 21, 2017)

KiagiJ said:


> hubie said:
> 
> 
> > KiagiJ said:
> ...



Assuming you mean *high* ISO, what you want can't be done. As people with a great deal more technical expertise than me have explained repeatedly here, high ISO is hitting hard physical limitations. An uncooled standard silicon Bayer sensor is already almost maximally efficient in low light. The only major improvements made recently have been with very low resolution, specialist sensors, like Canon's super low light video camera that goes to ~ISO 4,000,000 (and arguably to a lesser extent the Sony A7s), and in jpeg processing of extended ISO settings, especially in Nikon's D5; some camera phones are going another route by using stacked exposures (combining data from adjacent sensors may work too) - but they're starting from a low bar.

If you want better low light performance than the top-of-the-line full frame cameras available now, the only option is medium format (or if shooting static subjects, then stacking frames).

The belief that with every passing year *every* aspect of every device must improve by the same amount is nonsensical and clueless.


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## scyrene (Jan 21, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > If you are shooting portraits of your kids, outer AF points could of course make sense if they are too close for your available DOF to nail the face when targeting the body. Otherwise you're just making your life difficult for yourself. Bodies are *much *better targets than heads.
> ...



Hey, snap! (Though yours has a better background). One time I could have done with more fps, but it worked okay. I imagine I used an off-centre AF point too, fwiw. 5Ds, 70-200 f/2.8 IS II @ 105mm, f/3.5, 1/800, ISO 500.


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## YellowJersey (Jan 22, 2017)

scyrene said:


> KiagiJ said:
> 
> 
> > hubie said:
> ...



I think the only route currently open to give that significant improvement would be to go to a BSI sensor. After that, I'm not aware of any developments that could provide that big jump aside from developing an entirely new kind of sensor.


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## Mikehit (Jan 22, 2017)

As far as I am aware, the factors giving rise to noise are at the moment a major barrier and have been since the design for Sony's sensors used in the D800. The only significant advance has been in on-chip processing to override the appearance of noise arising from the circuitry and now that has been done we will have a period of evolution rather than real advances.


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## Photo5052 (Jan 23, 2017)

While all the upgrades are nice to have, where are the focus enhancements now in the 7DII, 80D, and 5D IV? The 80D is an enthusiasts crop sensor camera. The enhancements will greatly improve number of keepers for anyone, and without those enhancements I will skip this enhancement in the 6D and opt for the larger heavier and more expensive 5D IV. Would prefer not to have to go that route and will end up with one of those. Today I have two 6D bodies, and would have maintained 2 with the new one. But with the only alternative the 5D IV, I will only afford 1 of those. I find the 6D perfect size for me. Seems again Canon is skipping enhancements to a camera line to manipulate the market.


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## hubie (Jan 23, 2017)

Well, if you buy a 5D mk IV if the AF is 'crippled', then you can put it as one way Canon wants to have the users decide...

I will buy a 6D if there is no major drawback in a key place, including AF.... however, a 70D AF system would be sufficient for me, let's see.

As I am typically no early adopter as I wait for profound reviews, I might as well take a glimpse at the rumored mirrorless version of a 6D coming up later this year or in early 2018 (following cw, which they reported first here, here and here - lol)


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## Occipitals (Jan 24, 2017)

All i want for the 6D Mark II is a significantly better autofocus system, better tracking of moving objects and good high ISO performance.


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## Rams_eos (Jan 24, 2017)

If you look at the good chart from wikipedia, it make sense that the 6D 2 arrive this year. Canon has much more different cameras to work on than a few years ago. So I expect R&D ressources to be slower to renew each model.
Life of 6D is already really long but it had been launched in a hurry to compete with the Nikon D600. So to me, it will come latest around this summer. The Nikon D750 is a very good camera that sell well (no global stats, just that 3 friends of mine acquired it) and Canon should adress that quickly.
I am saving to replace my 6D and I hope 6D2 will remain a « cheap » FF.
I am extremely happy with my 6D and I hope night perfomance of 6D2 will be even better.
I don’t care at all about 4k but would appreciate faster rate (60 or better) in 2k.
Also, including Timelapse within the camera would make me happy. I don’t understand why it does not come with any new camera (of that price).


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## smr (Jan 24, 2017)

I've got a Canon 700D at present, which is my first DSLR and one that I've had for two years. I have been contemplating quite seriously upgrading to the 80D for better ISO performance and a better AF system predominantly, but if the specs listed in the OP are correct - and there are at least 20 AF points or so with a decent AF system I'm definitely waiting for the 6DMK2... best get saving up!


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## Chosenbydestiny (Jan 24, 2017)

I'm already sold and good to go with DPAF and the touchscreen, two things the competition can't seem to get right but people don't feel like they need until they actually have it. Don't really care for 4k, that's just more hard drive space for resolution that most won't always need. Bigger viewfinder, nice to have, but wouldn't cry if it didn't happen, same goes for the rest. Now, what I really want is more AF points and cleaner video. But from a marketing perspective they're definitely going to protect the 5D mark IV as much as possible so it's easy to come in with low expectations... At least give us the same slow motion video features. :T


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## tron (Jan 25, 2017)

Chosenbydestiny said:


> I'm already sold and good to go with DPAF and the touchscreen, two things the competition can't seem to get right but people don't feel like they need until they actually have it. Don't really care for 4k, that's just more hard drive space for resolution that most won't always need. Bigger viewfinder, nice to have, but wouldn't cry if it didn't happen, same goes for the rest. Now, what I really want is more AF points and cleaner video. But from a marketing perspective they're definitely going to protect the 5D mark IV as much as possible so it's easy to come in with low expectations... At least give us the same slow motion video features. :T


Don't need the 4K too. And believe it or not I do not need DPAF and touchscreen (5D4 user). But I do need an even better than 5D4 DR and high iso IQ as well as a modern AF system (for 6D2, 5D4 has it).


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## CChester (Jan 25, 2017)

This sounds perfect! Taking a big trip in May - do we think there is any chance this will be available to purchase before then? Maybe they surprise us all by announcing in Feb?


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## mariuspavel (Jan 27, 2017)

I just want a better senson + a usabe AF system.
This will surpass any camera price/value.


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## Steve Balcombe (Jan 27, 2017)

mariuspavel said:


> I just want a better senson + a usabe AF system.
> This will surpass any camera price/value.



That already exists, if you really mean "any price" - the 5D Mark IV. Buy one today!


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## unfocused (Jan 27, 2017)

tron said:


> ...But I do need an even better than 5D4 DR and high iso IQ...



Good luck with that. There seems to be some nasty thing called physics that keeps getting in the way.


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## tron (Jan 27, 2017)

unfocused said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > ...But I do need an even better than 5D4 DR and high iso IQ...
> ...


I was referring to an improvement like the difference between 6D and 5D3. If physics in sensor noise were getting in the way a few years ago we would have been left with the original digital cameras of the early 2000's. 

P.S Rumor has it that we will continue seeing improvements in the future...


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## ahsanford (Jan 27, 2017)

tron said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > tron said:
> ...



Unfocused, I'm actually with Tron on this one. Canon hasn't nerfed a sensor in FF yet as best I can tell, so I don't think it's unreasonable for 6D2 folks to expect the 6D2 sensor to (slightly) outperform the 5D4.

Now, do I think _that a 6D2 sensor outperforming a 5D4 sensor is fair to $3499-paying 5D4 owners?_ Hell no. If the 5D4 was clearly nerfed (on the fps front in particular), I think the 6D2 should have to give something up as well -- more than just the AF setup, metering, and 1/8000 shutter (possibly). You should roundly and comprehensively get more for a product that costs 70% more than another one, and I think that starts with the sensor. I think the 6D2 sensor should be crushingly nerfed. 

I know that may seem a little Grinch-y on a thread full of 6D2 fans, but much as nerfing the 5D4 in target areas will protect 1DX2 sales, the same goes for nerfing the 6D2 to protect 5D4 sales.

- A


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## unfocused (Jan 27, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...



My comment regarding physics was aimed at what I read as a dual demand that a 6DII sensor be better at both Dynamic Range and high ISO performance than the 5DIV. 

Canon has improved dynamic range, but like all other manufacturers, those improvements primarily affect base ISO. A good example is the 80D and the 7DII. The newer sensor technology of the 80D translates into better dynamic range at base ISO, but at higher ISOs, any dynamic range advantage disappears. 

As far as the 6D II vs. 5D IV and high ISO performance alone (ignoring dynamic range), I would point to the 1DX II and the 5D IV. Interestingly, the 1D X II performs slightly, but not significantly better than the 5DIV at higher ISOs. If the difference between those two sensors is small, it stands to reason that a 6D II (which will certainly have a sensor with higher megapixel count than the 1DXII) is unlikely to demonstrate much if any high ISO improvement over the 5DIV.

Indeed, what is truly amazing is how little megapixel count seems to matter in the latest generation of sensors.


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## tron (Jan 27, 2017)

unfocused said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > tron said:
> ...


I did not ask for high DR ON high ISO. I asked for better DR (as I understand it is always measured where it is best, at low ISO) AND high iso iq. Exactly how 6D was better than 5D3... I believe that is what AND means. All according to Canon CEO's sayings that they always use the best sensor available. I understand that they will not be years apart but then neither 6D and 5D3 were. Also, we do not know 6D will have DP focusig capability (which MAY interfere somehow on high iso performance). Anyway it was just a wish although within reason.


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## ahsanford (Jan 27, 2017)

unfocused said:


> My comment regarding physics was aimed at what I read as a dual demand that a 6DII sensor be better at both Dynamic Range and high ISO performance than the 5DIV.
> 
> [truncated]
> 
> Indeed, what is truly amazing is how little megapixel count seems to matter in the latest generation of sensors.



Ah. My bad. 

Agree on your last bit as well. The D810 and A7R II seem to crush things on all fronts in a way that drives past the old adage of 'mo pixels, mo problems'.

Hate to reference DXO here, but here are six very high quality EXMOR FF sensors of a fairly contemporary timeframe in action, and adding more resolution doesn't seem to punish... _anything_. (other than your hard drive.)

In fairness, the A7R II is (I believe) uniquely backlit compared to the others, but if someone can explain the freak of nature the D810 represents, I'm all ears.

- A


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## Maiaibing (Jan 28, 2017)

Rams_eos said:


> Also, including Timelapse within the camera would make me happy. I don’t understand why it does not come with any new camera (of that price).



5DS/R and 5DIV come with timelapse. So will the 6DII.


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## hubie (Jan 28, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Unfocused, I'm actually with Tron on this one. Canon hasn't nerfed a sensor in FF yet as best I can tell, so I don't think it's unreasonable for 6D2 folks to expect the 6D2 sensor to (slightly) outperform the 5D4.
> 
> Now, do I think _that a 6D2 sensor outperforming a 5D4 sensor is fair to $3499-paying 5D4 owners?_ Hell no. If the 5D4 was clearly nerfed (on the fps front in particular), I think the 6D2 should have to give something up as well -- more than just the AF setup, metering, and 1/8000 shutter (possibly). You should roundly and comprehensively get more for a product that costs 70% more than another one, and I think that starts with the sensor. I think the 6D2 sensor should be crushingly nerfed.
> 
> ...



Newer cameras will occasionally outperform older ones, despite the price.
The 5D4 already has some selling points that set it apart from a potential 6D successor.

- Full weather sealing and body materials quality
- Bigger (for bigger lenses and handling)
- Better AF-system
- Faster shutter and faster shoot rate, bigger buffer
- More advanced software tweaks available possibly e.g. DP RAW
- Prob. 4K, I don't think we will see it in a 6D mk II

Is that worth the upgrade price (to me)? Definitely not.

The sensor is the heart of a camera, and sensor technology develops over time... no reason to cut a camera there and I don't see why Canon would do that honestly (despite the fact that I certainly don't want it to happen, I think the probability is just very high that we will see Canon's cutting edge technology going into a 6D mk II, as well as any other camera).


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## tron (Jan 28, 2017)

hubie said:


> ...
> The sensor is the heart of a camera, and sensor technology develops over time... no reason to cut a camera there and I don't see why Canon would do that honestly (despite the fact that I certainly don't want it to happen, I think the probability is just very high that we will see Canon's cutting edge technology going into a 6D mk II, as well as any other camera).


+1 This is the correct thing to do. Remember back in the film days even the entry models could be loaded with the best (for the occasion) slide or print film available just like the top models...


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## ahsanford (Jan 28, 2017)

hubie said:


> Newer cameras will occasionally outperform older ones, despite the price.
> The 5D4 already has some selling points that set it apart from a potential 6D successor.
> 
> - Full weather sealing and body materials quality
> ...



Or perhaps I'll tack differently with this. Even if a down-the-road, non-1-series FF offering puts out a sensor that's better than the 1DX2 -- say, much more detail but same low performance, more DR, etc. -- the 1DX2 still lords over that new offering with a ton of 1-series exclusive goodies that the other camera does not have. 

*The 5D# product line lacks that punchy/exclusive 'we're better than you' feature set* that demands your money. So (most) people won't think twice to snap up a 6D2 if the sensor is the same / slightly better than the 5D4 and all they lose is a heavier body, a few AF points and 4K. There's more to it than that, I concede, but whereas the drop from a 1DX2 to a 5D4 is a cliff on a number of fronts, the 5D4 to a 6D2 difference will seem like a short walk downhill in comparison. 

I argue a lot of folks will gladly stroll down that mild descent and keep $1500 in their pocket.

- A


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## hubie (Jan 28, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Or perhaps I'll tack differently with this. Even if a down-the-road, non-1-series FF offering puts out a sensor that's better than the 1DX2 -- say, much more detail but same low performance, more DR, etc. -- the 1DX2 still lords over that new offering with a ton of 1-series exclusive goodies that the other camera does not have.
> 
> *The 5D# product line lacks that punchy/exclusive 'we're better than you' feature set* that demands your money. So (most) people won't think twice to snap up a 6D2 if the sensor is the same / slightly better than the 5D4 and all they lose is a heavier body, a few AF points and 4K. There's more to it than that, I concede, but whereas the drop from a 1DX2 to a 5D4 is a cliff on a number of fronts, the 5D4 to a 6D2 difference will seem like a short walk downhill in comparison.
> 
> ...



And so will I. Newer sensor technology doesn't necessarily mean the sensor outperforms in all categories, especially MP count (which directly impacts signal to noise performance as we saw with the original 6D). I am fine with that. Already satisfied with my 70D's MPs.


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## slclick (Jan 28, 2017)

hubie said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Or perhaps I'll tack differently with this. Even if a down-the-road, non-1-series FF offering puts out a sensor that's better than the 1DX2 -- say, much more detail but same low performance, more DR, etc. -- the 1DX2 still lords over that new offering with a ton of 1-series exclusive goodies that the other camera does not have.
> ...



Good points points both of you. There seems to be two camps....1. The sensor is everything and 2. The camera is much more than just the sensor. I myself will settle for a lesser than this body or that brands sensor for a multitude of other aspects of what the body can deliver (in the right hands)


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## IglooEater (Jan 30, 2017)

slclick said:


> hubie said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...


Coming from a 60D, I'm in both camps. ;D Features are everything, and sensor is everything. Yup I want 200% of a camera at 50% of the cost :


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## K (Feb 7, 2017)

To all the people who bash, scoff and attack those who have reasonable expectations of the 6D Mark II - consider this:

Nikon D750

24MP with amazing DR
Tilt Screen
6.5 fps
51pt AF which is fast and accurate
DUAL card slot

*$1,897*

And many other bells and whistles --



Sure, Canon glass is better and all that - but gimme a break, Nikon glass is excellent too. Canon cannot put out another over priced, under featured camera again. The value just wouldn't be there. Features in a body DO matter. 

I own a 6D, the AF is limiting. The single card slot is a big liability... I like the camera, but compared to the competition, it is garbage in specs.

This is why I fully expect a 28MP sensor with good DR
45pt AF system
Dual card slot.

^ no exceptions. Without these specs, this camera Canon can keep it. I will defect to the other side, it isn't as bad as people around here make it to be. It isn't unreasonable to expect these basic camera specs in 2017 for $2,000.


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## Maiaibing (Feb 7, 2017)

K said:


> Without these specs, this camera Canon can keep it. I will defect to the other side, it isn't as bad as people around here make it to be. It isn't unreasonable to expect these basic camera specs in 2017 for $2,000.



Remember to send us a nice photo card with your new Nikon gear!


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## K (Feb 7, 2017)

Maiaibing said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > Without these specs, this camera Canon can keep it. I will defect to the other side, it isn't as bad as people around here make it to be. It isn't unreasonable to expect these basic camera specs in 2017 for $2,000.
> ...





Some people floating the idea that the 6D2 might be a 19pt system.

Think about that - the only reason that number of AF points is even "acceptable" in a discussion is only because Canon provided the ultra-stingy 11pt system before, making this appear like a logical step up. When starved with a 2008 era 11pt system for so long, anything looks great then! Right?

But it isn't. 19pts is archaic now. Nikon has been offering up 51pts on their cameras for a long while. And, they aren't nerfed. The AF on the D750 and D7200 is very fast and accurate. It is almost as good as Canon's 5D3/4 system. Nikon AF is underrated.

With the 80D sporting 45, I expect 45 or better on the 6D. That would be fair and reasonable. But we all know Canon and their history of crippling cameras to create market segmentation. We know they will go directly against industry trends to do things their way. So I wouldn't put it past them. This is obsolete with the competition offering what it does. But as the fan-boys here chirp about all day, Canon makes money so who cares about value for the consumer.

Single slot would be another slap in the face to Canon users. Again, it is 2017....2017. Let that sink in. This camera will sell for $2,000 in 2017. Single slot + 19pt system on a $2K body will be the laughing stock of the camera world. Especially given that the sensor tech is merely average, not cutting edge.


I don't think that will happen, I think the rumor specs of dual slot will be true. I also think 45pt AF is going to happen. 

Consider also, that by the time this camera is 6 months - to 1 year out on the market, its competitors will be ready with their next generation of incremental update on already competitive if not better bodies. Further stressing the value question of this camera. 


At some point, for the $2000 body market segment, one has to question whether Canon glass is just that good and that worth it to put up with such a weaker body. I don't think so. It isn't that much better. The weakness of the body then overcomes the glass advantage in shooting capability. This can impact the quality or number of keepers in an event. 

What will the 6D owner say - hey look! I have 2% more corner sharpness, and 2% less chromatic abb. in my 5 keepers! Whoopdie do. Where the guy with a serious AF system has 2-3x the keepers and critical moment shots.


Of course the knee-jerk reaction in here is to advise to get a 5D series "if that's what you need" ...which ignores the whole part about value and what is being offered at $2K by others.


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## ahsanford (Feb 7, 2017)

I personally think expectations in the entry to mid FF space are cosmically unreasonable. It's one thing to bemoan that Canon's prior entry level rig doesn't have D750-level specs, but that's a higher market point than the 6D.

Yet despite that, the D610, 6D, D750 all have plummeted in price since they've launched. See below from the pricewatch sites.

Yet the D810, 5D3, etc. have held their price quite brilliantly. 

I don't know if this is because Canon driving a harder bargain with professionals, or potentially the A7 brand is stealing enthusiasts from the entry / mid-level FF SLR market, but there are two clearly different market dynamics at play here.

- A


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## K (Feb 7, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> I personally think expectations in the entry to mid FF space are cosmically unreasonable. It's one thing to bemoan that Canon's prior entry level rig doesn't have D750-level specs, but that's a higher market point than the 6D.
> 
> Yet despite that, the D610, 6D, D750 all have plummeted in price since they've launched. See below from the pricewatch sites.
> 
> ...




The D750 price I got off of BH today. Unless there's a rebate going on, that graph is showing gray market price which I'm not counting.


The D750 came down to its $1,996 price and stayed there for quite a while which was its normalized non-intro price during its heyday, and during that time, the 6D, a nearly 3 year older camera with barely 1/2 of the specs was still floating in the $1,750 - $1,850 range depending on rebates and sales...

The price drop to $1,450 and $1,350 was needed as I doubt anyone would seriously consider a 6D when for just a couple hundred more you can get a specs packed D750. That's the only thing keeping that camera viable, is a correction to its proper value price of around $1,200 at best. Because really, you're dropping $1,200 to get a FF sensor of 2013 tech, that's it. This is the camera for those who want a FF and so much so, they are willing to put up with a lack of just about everything else.

You're not getting any bells and whistles. You're not even getting reasonable AF by today's standards (or even its time). You are buying a FF sensor surrounded by the barebones minimum to provide you a FF sensor. 

That's what the 6D is today.


Thus, a modest upgrade in specs for the mark II would be a bad move by Canon in my opinion. I don't think there's a market place for stripped down, barebones FF cameras for $2,000. It becomes such a bad value, one ought to just shop the used or refurb market for a 5D series or D810.


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## dak723 (Feb 7, 2017)

K said:


> Without these specs, this camera Canon can keep it. I will defect to the other side, it isn't as bad as people around here make it to be. It isn't unreasonable to expect these basic camera specs in 2017 for $2,000.



I guess I can't speak for others, but there is no reason to expect that your new Nikon won't be a great camera. Nikon has made great cameras for a long time. If they meet your desires, by all means get one. Aside form the needed to sell your Canon lenses (and other accessories) there is no reason why someone shouldn't switch to Nikon if they want. I don't think the people around here would disagree with that.


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## dak723 (Feb 7, 2017)

K said:


> Thus, a modest upgrade in specs for the mark II would be a bad move by Canon in my opinion. I don't think there's a market place for stripped down, barebones FF cameras for $2,000. It becomes such a bad value, one ought to just shop the used or refurb market for a 5D series or D810.



It all depends on what you want. I would much rather have a camera with no more than 12 AF points. More points (for me) just means more time lost getting the shot. 9 points (center, left, right, and left, right, center along the 1/3 rule lines would be ideal). I have no need for Tilt. No need for video. No need for most of the specs others here want. I would consider the 6D II as long as it has good low light performance, accurate exposure (which Canon usually does) and the usual Canon color and tone curves. That is why I choose Canon over Nikon and Sony. 

You can put in every bell and whistle, 100 AF points, 4K, Hybrid viewfinder with histogram, and all the newest tech, but if it doesn't have the usual Canon color and the Canon tones curves/contrast, then I won't buy it. It's about the image for me (and presumably some others) and not the specs.


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## K (Feb 7, 2017)

And what's with the excuse making for Canon regarding sync speed. 

Canon, according to some on this forum, allegedly needs a powerhouse 1DX grade motor to drive 1/250 and clear a FF sized sensor ?

Um...

*Nikon D810 does 1/250 AND it has the quietest shutter on the market for a FF DSLR. *


Is Nikon putting a D4 grade motor in there? If so, great value. If not, what is Canon doing wrong?


Or maybe Canon is just limiting the camera's real capability...


Something has to give. Either Nikon has better shutter design technology, or Canon is holding back on its users.


Choose one.


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## slclick (Feb 7, 2017)

dak723 said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > Without these specs, this camera Canon can keep it. I will defect to the other side, it isn't as bad as people around here make it to be. It isn't unreasonable to expect these basic camera specs in 2017 for $2,000.
> ...



Just think, Canon glass has a very high resale value (I know, thoughts like that are anti-switch) but regardless the sale of said lenses will ironically assist you in your venture into the dark side. Nikon does make good gear, enjoy!


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## K (Feb 7, 2017)

slclick said:


> dak723 said:
> 
> 
> > K said:
> ...




With everyone saying sayonara to me, sounds like they think Canon will cripple the 6D2. As that is what I based my statement on.

I'm still hopeful because the features I want in that camera are pretty reasonable to get at this point and I think Canon will pull through. If they don't offer such basic things, then Canon has really gone extreme in my opinion, and that warrants looking at better values.

We'll find out in a few more months...


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## pointbob (Feb 8, 2017)

K said:


> To all the people who bash, scoff and attack those who have reasonable expectations of the 6D Mark II - consider this:
> 
> Nikon D750
> 
> ...



You make some good points and I own two 6d and an 80d and have always shot canon (along with a weekend bender with a little m43 tart) - but i'm so sick of cannibalization by canon. The 6d2 - for me really needs to have a rotating screen and f8 AF ability since the 80d has it. 4k would be ok..but honestly high end codec with 1080p 60 or 120fps (dream on) would be fine...and dman it i also want 30 megapretzels. I never saw the need for dual slot as I've dragged my 6d twins all over forests/winter hikes/ scorching jungles and even once dropped it into a river (which it survived AFTER one month in the rice bag trick)....i guess if you shoot weddings you may need the added insurance...but the 6 never was a pro camera..more super enthusiast. My only problem with nikon is the way it fits in my larger hands...just never got used to the way they handled. Anyways I hope canon releases the 6d2 soon...waiting is a bummer...


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## rrcphoto (Feb 8, 2017)

K said:


> *$1,897*



except that's the on sale price of a model soon to be replaced. the D750 was 2300 at launch


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## Maiaibing (Feb 8, 2017)

K said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > K said:
> ...



No. I'd love more for less. But its not happening. Compared to the competition (Nikon) the 6D was overpriced, the 5DIII & 5DIV were overpriced and so also the 6DII will be overpriced at launch. 

Canon simply relies on its large existing customer base to buy into its relatively expensive DSLR bodies. No reason this will change with the 6DII.


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## K (Feb 8, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > *$1,897*
> ...



True, but the price it stayed at the longest, which was it's non-introductory price, and also it's non-inventory reduction price was $1,996. 


For clarity, and to not nitpick $100 - $200 ...

I consider anything in the $1700 - $2300 range to be relatively competitive. 5D series and D810 were $3200 cameras, a full $1000+ more and a totally different segment.

The 6D did come out before, so it reasons that it would drop in price sooner. But look at the difference in performance. It's significant. The near pro-level 51pt AF they put in the D750 allows a whole realm of capability the 6D cannot begin to touch. Even though the D750 averaged a bit more in price, they are still competitors in the budget FF market and the value of the D750 is far better. You get 4 more megapixels of resolution. And a massive amount more DR, it isn't even close. Tilt screen is great. It has 5D series speed too! 6D at 4.5fps is quite dated. Dual slots means entry level pros have data security. This is very underrated aspect.

The ONLY place I've ever seen this feature bashed or at least down played is on this forum. That's it. Every person I've talked to in person, working pros, all value this very much. 

Why not make the entry into FF for semi-pros a lower price point Canon? Why is the entry point the 5D? That's steep for the part timers and starters who are also trying to get lighting and glass. Losing these guys to Nikon bigtime. 

I've said it many times on this board. The vast majority of starters I see are all Nikon. I just don't see Canon out there. The same way NFL sidelines are like 99% Canon. The starters doing portraits, senior pics, weddings, newborns etcetera are all Nikon. It is overwhelmingly so. 

Now, some of them, once they make some money with Nikon make the switch to Canon...but many do not because they've invested in the glass and the system. Not so easy to dump a whole lens lineup to switch over. 

Protecting the 5D by crippling the 6D line so much is bad idea in my opinion. You can make up the loss of a few 5D sales in the larger number of users you bring into the Canon system buying glass and gear.

Here's some more anecdotal evidence - my friend who works at BB. I asked him. They move way more Nikon gear to that segment than Canon. 


I'm hoping the 6D2 reverses this course. Canon can still provide a non-pro, super enthusiast entry FF that makes the hard core hobbyists happy while also making it capable enough for upstart pros to taste the Canon side without threatening 5D sales. The specs we discussed would do all of that.

Because at the end of the day, denying the market a reasonably capable entry FF will not magically create $3,200 in the pocket of the consumer to get a 5D. They weren't going to buy it anyway. That's why they are looking at the $1800 - $2000 range for a FF, because they can't afford a $3000+ class pro DSLR.


Ok, rant over.


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## ahsanford (Feb 8, 2017)

K said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > K said:
> ...



You do realize that Nikon has a three price points where Canon has two, correct?

Entry: D610 vs. 6D
Mid: D750 vs... [crickets] (no, a marked down 5D3 does not count here)
Pro: D810 vs. 5D4

So the 6D2's immediate competition will be the D620 or whatever they call it, not the D750. The D750 is a unique (and I argue clever) hybrid of entry and pro, much like how the 80D sits between Rebels and the 7D2. 

I personally think DPAF + tilty-flippy + on-chip ADC sensor + better OVF-based AF (not stellar, just better) = a sensibly improved product that will sell well. Those are four nontrivial upgrades, even if they nerf the total number of AF points, butter, fps, etc.

That said, if Canon asks for D750-launch sort of price with a meager D620 feature set, good luck to them. If they were so foolish to do that, I'd just six months and I'm sure the price will be where you want it by then.

- A


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## fyngyrz (Feb 8, 2017)

Here's what I hope for:

o _Fast_ WiFi with webserver on board so I can just drag images out
o WiFi transfer of *RAW* images
o Even better low-light performance. It simply cannot be "too good."

...if I could have those three, I wouldn't care about any other added features / capabilities.


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## smr (Feb 9, 2017)

I'm wondering now whether to wait for this or go for the Canon 80D...

I photograph landscape, wildlife, sport, macro, a tiny bit of astro.

I realise for somethings - bar losing the crop factor I'd be able to achieve nice clean astro images but I want something with a fast burst rate - 7fps or higher - will the 6Dmk2, do you think, have the AF system and burst rate that the 80D does in terms of capturing sport and wildlife shots?


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## Mikehit (Feb 9, 2017)

smr said:


> I'm wondering now whether to wait for this or go for the Canon 80D...
> 
> I photograph landscape, wildlife, sport, macro, a tiny bit of astro.
> 
> I realise for somethings - bar losing the crop factor I'd be able to achieve nice clean astro images but I want something with a fast burst rate - 7fps or higher - will the 6Dmk2, do you think, have the AF system and burst rate that the 80D does in terms of capturing sport and wildlife shots?



Who knows? You can re-read this thread and the other 6D thread(s) to get some idea of where people think it is going - but they are always as much wish lists as they are true speculation.

I don't think it will be a high burst rate because that would be a real chimera. The original 6D was a cut-down FF camera in the same way the 7D (at the time) was a cut-down sports camera, and was a reduced-function version of the 5D3. If the 6D2 has the AF that people want plus the burst rate of the 80D, then that will almost make it a higher spec camera than the 5DIV and its price will be set accordingly.


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## rrcphoto (Feb 9, 2017)

K said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > K said:
> ...



it really doesn't matter. no camera company sets initial prices based upon other camera reduced / discounted prices. it's never happened, people keep mentioning this - but it does not happen, and won't happen here.


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## Alejandro (Feb 15, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...




I'd like to believe that Nikon had the upper hand with that high res D810 for a few years, and the D750 was the release to compete with the 5D3.

Thats why the fight should be: 6D vs D610, D750 vs 5D4, D810 vs 5DsR


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## slclick (Feb 15, 2017)

Personally, while we're talking about overpriced items from Canon, I think the sub 1-D series are all fine. Most lenses except TS-E and great whites as well. No, I'm not saying I think a 600mm should be $4,000...I'm not daft but they are up there a tad. Now if you really want to talk overpriced? Grips and lens caps. Dayum!

But XXD and XD? Nah, they're all worth it.


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## martti (Feb 19, 2017)

What would make me buy the 6DII? 
A Sony-quality sensor, an articulated touch screen and a functional low-light and moving target autofocus.
More pixels, not necessarily. A faster Digic? Always welcome. I do not care if it is carbon fibre or magnesium. If it is weather sealed, that's a point. I would like it to connect with Android and iPhone as well, like in DSLR controller.It would really be cool if it had a SIM card so you could use 4G...


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## Don Haines (Feb 19, 2017)

martti said:


> What would make me buy the 6DII?
> A Sony-quality sensor, an articulated touch screen and a functional low-light and moving target autofocus.
> More pixels, not necessarily. A faster Digic? Always welcome. I do not care if it is carbon fibre or magnesium. If it is weather sealed, that's a point. I would like it to connect with Android and iPhone as well, like in DSLR controller.It would really be cool if it had a SIM card so you could use 4G...



I doubt that we will be seeing carbon fibre in camera bodies.... the metal is great for heat transfer


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## bokehmon22 (Feb 20, 2017)

I've been following 6D II rumors for a while but I couldn't wait and got a 5D Mark IV for wedding season. 

I think the 6D Mark II will have similiar IQ as the 5D Mark IV if not slightly better at a lower mpx. It will be gimped compared to 5D Mark IV just as 5D Mark IV was gimp compared to 1DX II. Canon doesn't seem to compete with other company based on pricing alone just as Apple doesn't compete with Chinese phone manufactures/PC on their products with so much powerful specs at a lower price. If value is what people after, D750 is a terrific camera.


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## dak723 (Feb 21, 2017)

Alejandro said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > K said:
> ...



I have to wonder if all this Canon vs. Nikon FF comparison is actually meaningful. I know from personal experience that when I was ready to get a FF camera, I was upgrading from a lower end Canon. Since I was used to the Canon ergonomics, and had a Canon EF mount lens (although I only had 1, it was still a consideration. My guess that it is a bigger consideration for most), Nikon was not even a consideration. My choices were which Canon FF should I get. I don't know, but am guessing, that most FF camera purchasers are either upgrading from a particular brand or are already FF users and heavily invested in a particular brand/system. If this is true, then there is no real competition between these various camera models at all as FF camera buyers are not likely to switch brands.


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## Mikehit (Feb 21, 2017)

dak723 said:


> I have to wonder if all this Canon vs. Nikon FF comparison is actually meaningful. I know from personal experience that when I was ready to get a FF camera, I was upgrading from a lower end Canon. Since I was used to the Canon ergonomics, and had a Canon EF mount lens (although I only had 1, it was still a consideration. My guess that it is a bigger consideration for most), Nikon was not even a consideration. My choices were which Canon FF should I get. I don't know, but am guessing, that most FF camera purchasers are either upgrading from a particular brand or are already FF users and heavily invested in a particular brand/system. If this is true, then there is no real competition between these various camera models at all as FF camera buyers are not likely to switch brands.



I know someone who probably has a little store of LSD and mega-strength caffeine tablets - I think that should help counter your current state of rationality.


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## -1 (Feb 21, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



I think that Nikon will drop one level and the future head to heads will be:

6D2 vs D760
5D4 vs D820
1DX2 vs D5

I also think that the 5Dsr will be replaced by something like a 1DXs and that the D6 if it remains on the map will have to fight it out with the 80D or possibly the 7D3! )


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## jeffa4444 (Feb 22, 2017)

Let me put it out there. I don't agree with Ahsanford view of the 6D / 6DMKII. 

a. The Canon 6D aside from the sensor and 2AF points was essentially technology from the 5D MKII with wif-fi & gps thrown in. The cost to Canon was not a ground up fully fledged price and they had wriggle room which saw the price come down to attract people into FF and more expensive glass. 

b. The 6D MKII could be introduced at a higher price point, in the UK the 6D sells for £ 1,449 body only, the 5DS £ 2,799, the 5DSr £ 2,999 and the 5 D MKIV 3,499. Gaps of £ 1,450 (double), £ 1,650 and £ 2,050. 

The 6D is part metal body with weather sealing similar to the 80D, I do not see that changing and maybe getting better. With the specs. I outlined earlier Canon can keep the product differentiation from the 5D MKIV, improve the camera over the current 6D and leave room for a "rebel style" entry level FF camera and have a line that mirrors the 7D MKII, 80D and 77D in the 5DIV, 6D MKII & the 8D (Rebel entry level). The 1D series really is in a level of its own and not directly comparable. 

The Canon CEO talked about more variation but longer replacement cycles this would fit with that. Equally Canon puts the current 6D in the middle of its range of cameras not at the bottom as entry level so this still fits that criteria.


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