# POLL: What flash modes do you use?



## Marsu42 (Oct 6, 2014)

Whenever I switch my 600rt flash from M to ETTL, the flash makes me cycle through these strange modes as there's no way (I know of) to disable them altogether. And I'm always wondering: How uses these anyway?

I hope a lot of people participate so we can get an impression if these exotic flash modes are dead weight (ext.whatever) or legacy modes (multi) that were useful before you could blend images in postprocessing.

Feel free to elaborate what your application is if you happen to use anything beyond ettl and m!


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## Skirball (Oct 6, 2014)

Oops, I only hit manual, meant to do eTTL as well.

Only 6 people voted so far, but already 3 votes for multi? I'm curious what people are using for other than the occasional creative experimentation? I think I used it for a couple of photos when I got my 580exII just to play around, and I'm pretty sure I haven't touched it since.


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## RLPhoto (Oct 6, 2014)

The Thyristor Mode works great Off camera where ETTL would nuke the exposure or burn the exposure depending on the background.


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## Lawliet (Oct 6, 2014)

RLPhoto said:


> The Thyristor Mode works great Off camera where ETTL would nuke the exposure or burn the exposure depending on the background.


And, on the 600EX-RT, gives you the same exposure for every flash in one group. Not the same power, but actually exposure(as seen by the strobes sensor, naturally).


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## Besisika (Oct 6, 2014)

I use both manual and E-TTL depending on the situation.
1 - when I need something quick, I put it on E-TTL and bounce it off the ceiling or wall. That's when I need it more about quantity (low ISO) than quality.
2 - when I have the time to set things up, I usually use one major light (Einstein or alien Bee) on manual mode in order to kill the ambient light (example when having window light and tungsten, I use the Einstein to overpower the tungsten) and one or two (rarely) speedlite on a stick on E-TTL. In studio, all is in manual mode.


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## pwp (Oct 7, 2014)

I use ETTL all the way unless the 600 ex-rt can't work it out, then I switch to Manual. It's very quick and easy on the 600 ex-rt, much quicker and intuitive GUI than the 580 and 550 speedlights.



Marsu42 said:


> Whenever I switch my 600rt flash from M to ETTL, the flash makes me cycle through these strange modes as there's no way (I know of) to disable them altogether. And I'm always wondering: How uses these anyway?



It not exactly any hardship to cycle through the different modes, the 600 ex-rt GUI attracted nothing but praise when it was released. But you do have a point. On EOS 1-Series bodies you can disable exposure modes that you never use. This is possible because the exposure modes are in menus rather than dial operated. So on my EOS 1-Series bodies the only exposure mode options are Manual and Aperture Priority. This not only speeds things up, but reduces the possibility of accidentally shooting in the wrong mode. 

-pw


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## steven kessel (Oct 7, 2014)

I use M mode exclusively on my 600 EX-RT and I also shoot in M mode. I've memorized settings that work under various lighting conditions and at various distances and I'm really pleased with the results that I get. I really like the flexibility and control that comes with shooting in M mode.


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## unfocused (Oct 7, 2014)

ETTL. It's superb on the 600 RT (as it was on the 580EXII). 

I put the camera on manual, pick the f-stop and shutter speed I want, set the A:B C ratios and let the flash do the rest. It's almost always right on. If it isn't, I simply adjust the flash exposure compensation and dial it up or down a bit. I've thought about using the D & E groups, but honestly I can usually find the right mix with just A:B C.

Canon spent millions perfecting the system, I paid for the convenience. Why use manual if I can use ETTL and not waste time?


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## Click (Oct 7, 2014)

Besisika said:


> I use both manual and E-TTL depending on the situation.




+1


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## Skirball (Oct 7, 2014)

unfocused said:


> Canon spent millions perfecting the system, I paid for the convenience. Why use manual if I can use ETTL and not waste time?



Who's wasting time? For precise lighting I don't think TTL is any faster than manual. You still have to fine tune your light, what does it matter if I'm nudging up a ratio, or a power level? So why use a system that isn't necessarily going to be consistent, that uses a pre-flash that might get my subject to blink, that requires a more expensive and complicated RF system... if there's no benefit. eTTL is fantastic, when the situation calls for it, but there are plenty of situations where it offers little to no advantage.


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## AcutancePhotography (Oct 7, 2014)

unfocused said:


> Canon spent millions perfecting the system, I paid for the convenience. Why use manual if I can use ETTL and not waste time?



The fact that the flash has different modes would indicate that there is not one mode that works for every photographer for every photograph under every condition. 

If you are happy with ETTL then ETTL is the best mode for you. Others may prefer the other modes. Still others use multiple modes depending on the circumstances. 

Such is the photography world.


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## unfocused (Oct 7, 2014)

AcutancePhotography said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Canon spent millions perfecting the system, I paid for the convenience. Why use manual if I can use ETTL and not waste time?
> ...



Yes, of course. I didn't intend to criticize other choices. My intended point (obviously not well-made) is that we pay for top-of-the-line products that have been thoroughly engineered and tested to perform certain functions and then sometimes, not always and not directed at anyone on this thread, people get on forums and seem to think it's a point of pride NOT to use the technology they've paid for. 

I was simply trying to make the point that ETTL is pretty darn good on Canon flashes and there is no reason anyone should be embarrassed or made to feel less of a photographer is they choose to use it. To me, it's sort of like "P" is for professional. Use whatever mode you want and don't let anyone intimidate you, because in the end, it's the photograph that counts.


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## Marsu42 (Oct 7, 2014)

unfocused said:


> Canon spent millions perfecting the system, I paid for the convenience. Why use manual if I can use ETTL and not waste time?



Obviously for consistent exposures, but you know that. Why I use flash m next to ettl is ...

to achieve 100% power output w/o wasting power on the ett. preflash if I know the flash is maxed out
for speed because with ettl and focus+recompose (6d...) you need to press fel all the time



AcutancePhotography said:


> If you are happy with ETTL then ETTL is the best mode for you. Others may prefer the other modes.



One note: shooting at full power kills your flash, so if you often shoot m flash anyway w/o need for Canon's rt protocol maybe it's a good idea to buy a cheap Pixel flash... ruining the flash tube of a €500 flash seems like a waste of money if a €70 flash does the same thing.


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## westr70 (Oct 7, 2014)

Click said:


> Besisika said:
> 
> 
> > I use both manual and E-TTL depending on the situation.
> ...



+1


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## Besisika (Oct 7, 2014)

unfocused said:


> I was simply trying to make the point that ETTL is pretty darn good on Canon flashes and there is no reason anyone should be embarrassed or made to feel less of a photographer is they choose to use it. To me, it's sort of like "P" is for professional. Use whatever mode you want and don't let anyone intimidate you, because in the end, it's the photograph that counts.


+1
I would compare it rather to aperture or shutter priority than a P mode. You are no entirely on the mercy of the gear. When the distance between the subject and the flash varies by the minute then only real photographers can survive manual mode, I suggest switching to ETTL and dial in flash exposure comp to taste. This becomes obvious when multiple flashes are used and these distance variations are enough to significantly change the needed powers on these flashes. As a result, I see no shame (or being intimidated) in using ETTL + FEC.
Manual mode, however, gives consistency when those distances are fixed.
So, as many stated above, both modes are the way to go depending on the situation.


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## BLFPhoto (Oct 7, 2014)

You forgot GR. I use this heavily in order to control different groups in different ways with the new RT system.

One of my favorite setups for sports shots is to use Gr as such:

Group A = ETTL, main
Group B = ETTL, fill
Group C = M, background, if needed
Group D = ETTL or M depending on situation, kicker

I have not yet used the 5th available group, though I have imagined a couple of schemes.

Basically if it moves relative to the light source, it gets ETTL. If it is stationary relative to the light source, it gets M

I absolutely love the ST-E3-RT and the EX600-RT system. I now have 5 of the 600s and will probably add 2-3 more for flexibility, and because I often double up the flashes when I need more power, particularly in HSS situations. 

The attached photos show a two group, with both ETTL, HSS, and two flashes per position. For the bike photo I later added the 5th light on a 3rd group in manual, full power, to give a blast into the trees to lift the shadows just a bit.


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## c.d.embrey (Oct 7, 2014)

ETTL when using the pop-up/hot shoe flash as fill light outdoors. Set camera to P (for professional) and turn on flash. I get great looking, natural shots, that don't look like any flash has been used 

M when using Profoto packs, indoors or outdoors. Metered with a hand-held incident meter.


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## Besisika (Oct 7, 2014)

BLFPhoto said:


> Basically if it moves relative to the light source, it gets ETTL. If it is stationary relative to the light source, it gets M
> 
> I absolutely love the ST-E3-RT and the EX600-RT system. I now have 5 of the 600s and will probably add 2-3 more for flexibility, and because I often double up the flashes when I need more power, particularly in HSS situations.


That is interesting!
thanks,


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## pwp (Oct 7, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> One note: _shooting at full power kills your flash_, so if you often shoot m flash anyway w/o need for Canon's rt protocol maybe it's a good idea to buy a cheap Pixel flash... ruining the flash tube of a €500 flash seems like a waste of money if a €70 flash does the same thing.


Interesting. Where did you read that? In a multi-decade career using flash almost daily, I've never heard this. On the contrary, underused flashes can have shorter lives, but then it's the capacitors that generally fail. Flashes that are stored unused for long periods should be "exercised" from time to time. Profoto used to advise that the big floor-pack flash packs be gradually built up through the power settings after prolonged storage rather than going straight to full-power pops. 

I've had to replace three flash tubes and they were all resulting from drops. One was a brand new Profoto Compact 600 mono ( I was sad!) and twice with dropped 580EXII. They cost little over $100 each to repair at CPS. 

What I have blown slightly more often is flash capacitors. My old Elinchrom 500 monos which didn't have cooling fans blew capacitors with alarming regularity. And I've blown a couple of Canon Speedlight capacitors, a 540-EZ and a 580-EX while working them far too hard on full power while hooked up to Quantum Turbo external battery packs. You just have to be a bit sensible when using gutsy external packs. Newer speedlights like to 600 EX-RT and Godox Witstro have overheat protection cutout functions. The $70 cheapies probably don't.

It's possible you may have been thinking about capacitors rather than tubes.

-pw


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## Marsu42 (Oct 7, 2014)

pwp said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > One note: _shooting at full power kills your flash_, so if you often shoot m flash anyway w/o need for Canon's rt protocol maybe it's a good idea to buy a cheap Pixel flash... ruining the flash tube of a €500 flash seems like a waste of money if a €70 flash does the same thing.
> ...



I'm happy to stand corrected here! As with much knowledge I cannot pinpoint the exact source, which doesn't necessarily mean the information was wrong. *Maybe others can add some insight.
*
I do know however that I fried my 600rt flash a couple of months ago. Coupled with my (probably mistaken) "knowledge", I pinpointed the reason to me using the flash at 100% full power for daylight fill flash all the time. The effect was that one day the power got weaker, fluctuated and then the flash was broken.



pwp said:


> [They cost little over $100 each to repair at CPS.



Yeah, right, I don't want to start again ranting about German service costs - but for €80 the technician doesn't even pick up the screwdriver over here. That's why damage to inexpensive equipment outside warranty equals a total loss.

I probably should ask the local cps, but in my case they didn't replace flash parts but the whole head for whatever reason - and with the premium 600rt flash, I'd expect ~€200+ off the top of my head. That's why I'm very careful not to fry my 600rts... or get a dumb pixel for rough outdoor on-bracket usage.


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## pwp (Oct 7, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> I do know however that I fried my 600rt flash a couple of months ago, the flash head was replaced under warranty.


Ouch! That's unfortunate. I'm glad you still had warranty cover. 

-pw


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## privatebydesign (Oct 7, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> pwp said:
> 
> 
> > Marsu42 said:
> ...



Flash tubes have a remarkably short full power rated lifespan. We all generally get hugely more out of them than the ratings but that doesn't change the actual manufacturers specs.

Tube and capacitor specs are a very good way for the cheaper clones and copies to make what appears to be "the same" thing, but can have a dramatically different lifespan.

http://www.strobist.blogspot.com/2013/02/will-your-flash-last-forever.html


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## pwp (Oct 8, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> Flash tubes have a remarkably short full power rated lifespan. We all generally get hugely more out of them than the ratings but that doesn't change the actual manufacturers specs.
> http://www.strobist.blogspot.com/2013/02/will-your-flash-last-forever.html


Interesting read. Thanks for that. It completely contradicts my own no-doubt narrow though long experience, but maybe I've just been just plain lucky. 

To quote the Strobist article...._And it might surprise you to know that 5,000 pops is an expected life span for some flash tubes. Disappointed? I was, too. And it gets worse: some tubes are rated at 1,000 pops._ 

No manufacturer could survive on these figures, every sale would result in a warranty replacement. On a big day I'd easily expect 1000+ pops from 580 exII & 600 ex-rt, and sometimes 3000+ from the Einsteins in a big studio session. Comments in the Strobist post are also completely at odds with the claims. 

I'd love to see some real manufacturers numbers on this, unsubstantiated Strobist editorial content doesn't necessarily establish stable facts. Like contemporary Japanese cars, I'm constantly amazed at the durability and reliability of products sold by Canon, Panasonic, Apple, Paul C Buff (US) and so on. 

But flash tubes? The future looks very bright.

-pw


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## privatebydesign (Oct 8, 2014)

pwp said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > Flash tubes have a remarkably short full power rated lifespan. We all generally get hugely more out of them than the ratings but that doesn't change the actual manufacturers specs.
> ...



Yes but don't forget the test spec listed is one full power pop every twenty seconds for five thousand pops, and failure is considered micro cracks not flash failure. It is very possible we all have micro cracks in our tubes and they work fine, but from a manufacturers spec point of view they are failures.

I have blown capacitors and had tubes die but I have used all my flashes for well over 5,000 pops, though I couldn't speculate on the number of full power pops and they certainly never go at 20 sec intervals for any serious number.


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## Lawliet (Oct 8, 2014)

pwp said:


> I'd love to see some real manufacturers numbers on this, unsubstantiated Strobist editorial content doesn't necessarily establish stable facts.



It makes sense once you set the right context. The blog doesn't.
The tube would really die quite fast if driven at its rated power - if. But tubes of the size found in your average flash gun have rated powers of about 200Ws, give or take. With only a quarter of that energy in the capacitors and the steep power/lifetime curve of the tube something in the 100k full power pops range is a more realistic lower estimate. 
Beware - that's if everything, electronics hate overheating after all, is properly cooled&ventilated. Exeeding the max. energy for a certain time window is also a bad idea. If you manage to fry your strobe those are the likely culprits.


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## TMSCanon (Oct 11, 2014)

I use Manual settings for almost all photos - studio & outdoor. ETTL works fairly well (i.e. correct exposure) for me when I bounce the light. However, I find that using ETTL produces unpredictable results in most situations, especially with modifiers - reflectors, umbrellas, etc.


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## skoobey (Oct 11, 2014)

how about MANUAL?


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