# New TS-E Lenses for Photokina [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Apr 21, 2014)

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<p>We’re told to expect two new Tilt-Shift lenses for Photokina 2014 in September. One will be a direct replacement of the TS-E 45mm f/2.8 and the other will be a longer focal length, however it won’t be a direct replacement of the TS-E 90mm f/2.8.</p>
<p>Both of the new tilt-shift lenses will get the L designation. We’re also told that the new tilt-shift lenses will have a unique feature, though at the moment we don’t know what that might be.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


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## hendrik-sg (Apr 21, 2014)

Unique feature?

Maybe a uniquely high price?


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## traveller (Apr 21, 2014)

I can't think what "unique feature" would be useful on a tilt-shift... macro capability? IS wouldn't help much on lens that will be used with a tripod 90% of the time; maybe they've worked out how to get AF to work with tilt-shifts (but I doubt it)! Knowing Canon, perhaps they've incorporated defocus control ;D


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## monkeyhand (Apr 21, 2014)

Not sure how "unique" it will be if both lenses have it. I'd like to see it pull of a 1:1 on the longer lens.


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## preppyak (Apr 21, 2014)

Apparently "year of the lens" was meant to be fiscal year 2014


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## Lawliet (Apr 21, 2014)

traveller said:


> maybe they've worked out how to get AF to work with tilt-shifts



While PDAF has so many things that can, and will, go wrong: Contrast AF should be trite, from a technical standpoint. And your average subject won't run very fast, no need to hurry.
But fokus peaking from a fully read out sensor would be actually valuable - add some colors, say make 100%-view sharp blink green and within AF tolerance-sharp flash in red. That would be handy. Bonus: Throw in adjustable thresholds.


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## tolusina (Apr 21, 2014)

4*3*mm, please Canon, please?

How about a proper perspective control lens mount configuration similar to the way Schneider impliments.






(photo credit, hot linked from B&H)


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## privatebydesign (Apr 21, 2014)

tolusina said:


> How about a proper perspective control lens mount configuration similar to the way Schneider impliments.



What does that mean?


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 21, 2014)

No idea what the unique new feature could be, but I suppose it could be just marketing BS. For example, the ability to vary the relative orientation of tilt and shift would be a 'unique new feature' in a 45mm and longer FL TS-E lens, despite already being available on the 17 and 24 II lenses…




preppyak said:


> Apparently "year of the lens" was meant to be fiscal year 2014



Actually, Canon's fiscal year is the calendar year, so we're already in Q2…




Lawliet said:


> While PDAF has so many things that can, and will, go wrong: Contrast AF should be trite, from a technical standpoint. And your average subject won't run very fast, no need to hurry.
> But fokus peaking from a fully read out sensor would be actually valuable - add some colors, say make 100%-view sharp blink green and within AF tolerance-sharp flash in red. That would be handy. Bonus: Throw in adjustable thresholds.



None of those have any bearing on whether or not the lens is capable of autofocus.




tolusina said:


> How about a proper perspective control lens mount configuration similar to the way Schneider impliments.



That would be very nice. Knowing Canon as we do, I'd expect not a tripod mount, but rather "compatible with Canon Tripod Mount Ring E, available separately."


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## HarryWintergreen (Apr 21, 2014)

Hey folks, let's be fair about Canon. They may me boring most of the time but their TS-E lenses are definitely worth staying with Canon.


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## tolusina (Apr 21, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> tolusina said:
> 
> 
> > How about a proper perspective control lens mount configuration similar to the way Schneider impliments.
> ...


Hold the lens, shift the camera for multi frame pano stitching. 
As is now with Canon TS-Es, shift the lens one way, shoot a frame, shift the lens the other way while shifting the camera an equal amount the other way, shoot the second frame, then stitch.


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## tolusina (Apr 21, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> No idea what the unique new feature could be, but I suppose it could be just marketing BS. For example, the ability to vary the relative orientation of tilt and shift would be a 'unique new feature' in a 45mm and longer FL TS-E lens, despite already being available on the 17 and 24 II lenses…


Jeez, if they don't, why bother with new TS-E releases at all?



neuroanatomist said:


> tolusina said:
> 
> 
> > How about a proper perspective control lens mount configuration similar to the way Schneider impliments.
> ...


Ugh, so right, that can well be expected. And I'm fine with that, expected and accepted. 





 .


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## privatebydesign (Apr 21, 2014)

tolusina said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > tolusina said:
> ...



But holding the lens limits you, effectively, to rear movements only unless you have a good geared head. Rear movements are nowhere near as useful as front movements.

Besides, this meme for shifting the camera not the lens is mostly spurious anyway, inducing parallax to the extent that PS, or any other stitching program, can't deal with it entirely automatically is not a simple task, you have to try pretty hard to actually create the problem. Not saying it can't be done, just that mounting the camera is the far better choice of the two.

I'd like to see some of your own actual images where parallax (the potential problem induced by shifting the lens not the camera) has caused any kind of issue with your image. It was very different when we were shooting film, but digital is so much more powerful.


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## jasonsim (Apr 21, 2014)

Way to go Canon. These are the lenses we all are waiting for!


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## RGF (Apr 21, 2014)

dilbert said:


> Maybe they'll be tilt, shift and swing lenses?



Pardon my ignorance, but what is a swing lens?


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## Random Orbits (Apr 21, 2014)

jasonsim said:


> Way to go Canon. These are the lenses we all are waiting for!



Curious as to the timing. How big are the 45/90mm TS-Es markets? Thought that the 35L and 100-400L would have been replaced first, but more releases are better than none.

Really interested in what the unique feature would be. Perhaps integrated macro rail into the lens foot?


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## Random Orbits (Apr 21, 2014)

RGF said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe they'll be tilt, shift and swing lenses?
> ...



I think dilbert is suggesting a lens that can tilt in two axes at the same time. For view cameras, tilt referreded to up/down and swing left/right movements.


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## privatebydesign (Apr 21, 2014)

RGF said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe they'll be tilt, shift and swing lenses?
> ...



Swing is tilt sideways. All Canon Tilt Shift lenses can be used to achieve the Swing movement.


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## privatebydesign (Apr 21, 2014)

Random Orbits said:


> RGF said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



Dilbert is being silly. All Canon T/S lenses can be used to combine Tilt and Swing in any direction.


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## tolusina (Apr 21, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> tolusina said:
> 
> 
> > privatebydesign said:
> ...



Please stop. Just stop. I've asked you before to please block me, I'd really rather not enter into arguments with you, you far too far beneath. You may well know more about photography than I and good for you, but I do find your comprehension and manners severely lacking.

I really don't care that you choose to be a Photoshoprapher and choose to do things in post that I'd rather, as a photographer, do in camera as best as is possible. You go right ahead and tweak in post all you want, I don't care.

Above, you asked what a lens mount means, I explained somewhat. I note also, by Neuro's comments, he gets the concept and needs no explanation.

No, there are no TS-E images of mine to post, I don't yet own a TS-E, I've been hoping for a new lens to be released, this rumor fuels my dreams. The 24 sounds about perfect except I don't care for the 24mm perspective. The current 45 and 90 don't have the movement flexibility of the 17 and 24, the Schneiders are too expensive, too manual even for an old guy like me lacking even electronic aperture control, they also have meh reviews.
Um, by design, you've stated your photos are private, you've got a lot of nerve requesting anyone else's. 

If Canon is introducing new TS-Es, yeah, I'd like the option of a proper lens mount. That's also optional to use or not, camera mount will still be available.

For all the permutations possible with a TS-E, placing the lens and it's image circle in one place, then moving the sensor within that image circle without tripod gymnastics sounds very desirable to me. 
Get IT yet? Or is your repeatedly demonstrated lack of reading comprehension skills guiding your fingers on your keyboard.
- - -
pbd, please, please, just block me already. Yes, I did get your previous PM, d'oh, had I blocked your posts, your PMs would have been blocked too. You must be new to this forum stuff, huh.





.


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## mwellsphoto (Apr 21, 2014)

Ive been hoping Canon would make something similar to Hasselblads HTS 1.5 or the previous PC Mutar. This could be it.
http://www.hasselbladusa.com/products/h-system/hts-15.aspx


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## tolusina (Apr 21, 2014)

Random Orbits said:


> ...... Perhaps integrated macro rail into the lens foot?......


Lens foot!! YES! Do want that!!
An integrated macro rail!! Brilliant! I think I want that too, or maybe better if it's done in true Canon style and available as an extra cost option. Maybe a manual, hand operated version, another version with a stepper motor controllable from DPP, Lightroom or a smartphone app.





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.


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## privatebydesign (Apr 21, 2014)

dilbert said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > Random Orbits said:
> ...



You need to look at stuff more before making silly misinformed posts. All Canon T/S lenses from the FD 35mm T/S can do unlimited swing/tilt movements, the rotation needed to do that has always been there.

What was new to the 24 MkII and 17 was the ability to set the tilt/swing combo anywhere in relation to the shift/rise/fall movement. It does not need to be aligned or at right angles with these lenses, though the earlier ones do. 

With the 24 MkII and the 17, and I suspect any new T/S lenses, you can place shift/rise/fall at any angle, you can place tilt/swing at any angle too.

You are asking for a feature that you clearly don't understand, that we already have.


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## MichaelHodges (Apr 21, 2014)

Looking forward to shooting grizzlies with these.


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## privatebydesign (Apr 21, 2014)

tolusina said:


> Above, you asked what a lens mount means, I explained somewhat. I note also, by Neuro's comments, he gets the concept and needs no explanation.
> 
> No, there are no TS-E images of mine to post, I don't yet own a TS-E, I've been hoping for a new lens to be released, this rumor fuels my dreams. The 24 sounds about perfect except I don't care for the 24mm perspective. The current 45 and 90 don't have the movement flexibility of the 17 and 24, the Schneiders are too expensive, too manual even for an old guy like me lacking even electronic aperture control, they also have meh reviews.
> Um, by design, you've stated your photos are private, you've got a lot of nerve requesting anyone else's.
> ...



I know what a lens mount means, I have explained and illustrated your concept many times, I was also pretty sure that you had little to no experience of actually using T/S lenses, and that is my point. It is all very well having an opinion, and we are all entitled to those, but having an opinion based on nothing is worth just that.

I know Neuro has T/S lenses and uses them, I also know when I ask him for an illustrative example, of which I have posted hundreds, he almost always does. That helps. It helps not only me and him it helps all the readers of the threads and the knowledge base of the site.

I was merely putting in perspective the amount of actual use this desired feature is. When I last did this on this very subject the poster who was most emphatic about its benefits ended up admitting they never now use it. 

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=3055.msg376997#msg376997

Go figure..........

Not saying it is of no use, just not the "issue" so many people who have never used the T/S lenses without the feature seem to think it is.


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## StudentOfLight (Apr 21, 2014)

I think that maybe these new TS-E lenses will have the ability to electronically register the Tilt and Shift positions, which might allow for advanced lens corrections in post.


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## privatebydesign (Apr 21, 2014)

StudentOfLight said:


> I think that maybe these new TS-E lenses will have the ability to electronically register the Tilt and Shift positions, which might allow for advanced lens corrections in post.



Now that would be interesting, I believe Hassselblad do that with their Tilt Shift adapter http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=&sku=607602&gclid=CNymxKaD8r0CFUQF7AodgjoARg&Q=&is=REG&A=details.


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## NWPhil (Apr 21, 2014)

StudentOfLight said:


> I think that maybe these new TS-E lenses will have the ability to electronically register the Tilt and Shift positions, which might allow for advanced lens corrections in post.



I know nothing, but I know that indeed I could use THAT feature either live or in PP (as to figure waht went wrong : )


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## tolusina (Apr 21, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> …...I know what a lens mount means......


Then asking...


privatebydesign said:


> What does that mean?


 fits the description of a stupid question, one you already know the answer to. It also fits in to the definition of passive/aggressive behavior, you posed that question simply to instigate argument.



privatebydesign said:


> Alan,
> 
> Buy the sounds of your reply you have never actually done any of this.
> 
> First, show me an image taken......


From the little I read of that thread, you have not actually used a tilt shift lens with as lens foot either, if you have, “show me an image taken”, put up or shut up.
You seem only able to ridicule the concept in favor of Photoshopraphy, why do in camera what you can do in post? 
I counter with, why correct in post what can be done well in camera?

Canon is rumored to be releasing a new TS-E, why do you find it objectionable that these new lenses might incorporate a lens foot, or are you just ranting to start arguments. 
Your way is not the only way, if it was, I’d have smashed all my photo gear as soon as I learned that.



privatebydesign said:


> ...... I was also pretty sure that you had little to no experience of actually using T/S lenses, and that is my point. …..


Well, neener neener on me by you, feel better now? Have your imagined alpha male issues been satisfied?
Where are YOUR images taken with TS-E with lens foot? Huh?



privatebydesign said:


> Not saying it is of no use, just not the "issue" so many people who have never used the T/S lenses without the feature seem to think it is.


No, can you be acknowledging that there is an issue that just might, possibly be addressed with one or both of these new rumored lenses? 
I'll keep my daydream wishes thank you very much, hope Canon makes them come true whether you approve or not.


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## mackguyver (Apr 21, 2014)

...and back to the original post...I wonder what the unique feature will be. I hope it's not IS as that would add a lot of cost to lenses that would be used on the tripod 99% of the time for most people. Macro (even 1:2) would be pretty cool and that's what I'm hoping for if anything. Or maybe they'll have a built in teleconverter . Beyond that, maybe the T/S mechanisms will improved beyond the current TS-E Ls, with more durable parts.

Whatever they do, I'm sure it will be intere*$$$*ting.


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## tolusina (Apr 21, 2014)

Maybe a drop in filter slot?


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## privatebydesign (Apr 21, 2014)

tolusina said:


> You seem only able to ridicule the concept in favor of Photoshopraphy, why do in camera what you can do in post?



Not at all, my point was, if you use a lens mount with a design as you asked you convert your setup to rear movements rather than front movements (unless you also commit to a good geared head and deeply understand what you are doing). From an image making point of view front movements have always been much more important than rear movements which traditionally have been used to exaggerate perspective and distort objects within the image.

135 format sensors and even the most flexible T/S lenses are not, and never will be, ultimate replacements for field cameras, even less so technical cameras. If you just want to emulate a bigger sensor with a shift lens then parallax might become an issue, that you can easily work around, if you have a certain set of circumstances that nobody I have asked has ever actually encountered in real life shooting, and you also have to throw away the most unique functionality in the lens, a function that cannot be replicated in post, so I question its value from an experienced point of view, is that wrong?

What would be very cool and a practical benefit, if they made a lens mount, would be for it to be between the tilt and the shift mechanics providing the tilt is in front of the shift, like it is with the current lenses, if the design is not a rerofocus design. Then you would have the ultimate benefits of the T/S lenses plane of focus control, without inducing distortion, and the ability to do your emulated sensor enlargement without the possibility of parallax. Retrofocus T/S lenses create many issues with tilt use, as I am sure you know.


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## privatebydesign (Apr 21, 2014)

Mac, I don't think macro ability would be as much use as hoped, the amount of tilt needed at macro distances is well outside the range of the all in one lenses.

tolusina, now a drop in filter slot would be a very decent addition, not sure how much more practical it would be than a regular setup, (TS/E 17 excepted) but a nice idea. The thing that would scare me would be Canon's complete failure to support it, like the 600-EX-RT filter "set", it is a good job third parties have stepped up to support the factory gel holder.

I like the idea of registering the tilt and especially the shift amount for correction in post best, and it would make the most difference in time to me. But again I fear that would mean a compulsory trip to DPP to make it work.


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## mackguyver (Apr 21, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> Mac, I don't think macro ability would be as much use as hoped, the amount of tilt needed at macro distances is well outside the range of the all in one lenses.


True on the macro piece and I only have the 24mm so I haven't fooled around with close shots, but I know Canon plugs the 45mm a lot for close up work. 


privatebydesign said:


> But again I fear that would mean a compulsory trip to DPP to make it work.


So true, and every time I use DPP, I want to pull my hair out. Canon seems to have no idea what fine adjustments mean. It would be nice for vignette correction, but that's not a huge challenge with most tools.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 21, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> I like the idea of registering the tilt and especially the shift amount for correction in post best, and it would make the most difference in time to me. But again I fear that would mean a compulsory trip to DPP to make it work.



I've had a discussion with folks at DxO about TS lens corection profiles - having the mechanisms encoded and the settings recorded in the EXIF would really facilitate development and implementation of those profiles.

I think you'd need four encoders - tilt, shift, _and_ the rotation for each.


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## SoullessPolack (Apr 21, 2014)

Tolusina, you stated you are not an owner of a TS-E lens, yet you do not want to be a Photoshoprapher or whatever you called it. I have owned the new 24mm TS-E II for a while, and it is my most used lens. I use it a lot to get a wider perspective, often with foreground elements very near to the lens. This situation presents the perfect opportunity for parallax errors to be introduced. I have NEVER had a situation where I would have needed the camera to do rear movements, rather than simply mounting the camera on the tripod and moving the lens around. The software that does the stitching can account for the parallax errors you are so frightened of. And guess what? You're going to have to stitch the images anyway, and it does this automatically, there is no additional Photoshop work for you to do. 

In theory, yes, the movement you described would be best. In reality, mounting the lens rather than the camera is simply not necessary. Any errors I've ever had have always been resolved by Photoshop or PTGui. The only way you'll get these errors if you simply place layers on top of each other and try to manually align them. Doing that actually takes longer than simply selecting your layers and clicking on Auto-Align.

This is why a lens mount/tripod ring will NOT be the unique feature. I'd be willing to bet my 24mm TS-E II on it in fact.


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## romanr74 (Apr 21, 2014)

on the 'unique' feature: wasn't there a patent on a focal plane display in the viewfinder a few months ago?


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## privatebydesign (Apr 21, 2014)

mackguyver said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > Mac, I don't think macro ability would be as much use as hoped, the amount of tilt needed at macro distances is well outside the range of the all in one lenses.
> ...



It isn't that the lens shouldn't focus close, it is just that the amount of tilt needed at such short J point distances seems to make a "macro" feature less practical, particularly for the 45, the 90 would gain a bit by not needing as much, but it is already a superb product/watch/jewelery lens with only 8.5º (?) of tilt.


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## romanr74 (Apr 21, 2014)

here is the link to petapixel describing the viewfinder feature http://petapixel.com/2013/05/03/new-canon-tilt-shift-lenses-and-tilt-shift-camera-features-may-be-on-the-way/


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## dafrank (Apr 21, 2014)

*Some answers*

Perhaps, I can be of some assistance in understanding a couple of questions or assertions that have been made in this thread.

First of all, Canon does offer both swing or tilt of the lens (front focus plane) on all their TS-E lenses. An analog of view camera tilt is available, defined by the lens plane moving through a defined vertically oriented arc that travels around the horizontal axis traveling through - and in front of and behind - the central, near nodal point of the lens. After rotating the mount 90 degrees, the TS-E lenses can use the exact same controls as were used for the tilt movement to swing the lens plane through a defined horizontally oriented arc that travels from left to right, around the vertical axis going through - and in front of and behind - the central, near nodal point of the lens. And if you choose to rotate the lens mount less than 90 degrees off either the vertical or horizontal axes, you will be able to combine the effects, somewhat, of both a swing and a tilt of the lens plane, the effects depending on the position of the mount.

As to the person who speculated that perhaps Canon was going to make the lens able to swing, as well as tilt, well, the above paragraph explains that that is already possible. However, if the poster is referring to the true capability of a monorail (non-monorails can also do this, but usually only tilt from the bottom, rather than the center) view camera, then, no, no current TS-E lens can achieve that. This is because, besides being able to swing/tilt the lens plane only, as TS-E lenses do, a monorail view camera can also swing/tilt the image plane (for view camera, it's the film/digital back; for a DSLR it would be the entire camera with sensor, but not lens), independently of whatever one chooses to do with the lens plane. Therefore, the view camera can swing or tilt either the front or back, in whatever direction one chooses, or swing or tilt them both at the same time. The uses of this are quite important. Tilting or swinging the back not only helps to indirectly manipulate the front focus plane much like the camera front does, but it can do something else quite important; it can effect the apparent distortion of the subject, from rectilinear-looking to comical levels of "distortion," stretching or compressing the subject to either "correct" its look or purposefully make it look less realistic. Then, oftentimes, the front is counter-moved to reset the focus plane to make up for the change of the image plane, so that the so-called Scheimpflug effect can still bring about relatively sharp focus.

Given the above, Canon could actually make a lens with two tilt/shift mechanisms, one in the "normal" position to allow front lens plane manipulation and one at the base of the lens to simulate rear standard image plane manipulation. The lens would be horribly complicated to make, and the glass itself would have to deliver a truly massively larger image circle than normal "full-frame" lenses, or even existing TS-E lenses, to compensate for the possible off-angle light projection of the two different standards. But, this could be done, especially so with a lens longer than 90 mm. I doubt if Canon, or any other lens maker will ever actually do such a thing, but it would be possible.

And as to whether having a super-telephoto-like lens mount adapter on a TS-E lens would make multiple exposure panorama-making easier, by not affecting the perspective of the multiple shifted exposures, the answer is: I think so. One TS-E's shifted lens view's perspective will not exactly match the perspective of a view from an image shifted along the same axis by the same lens, unless an appropriate image plane shift could mitigate it. To do this properly, it would work best if only the camera-sensor back itself were shifted through the image plane, and, when the lens itself is immobile on a tripod, the lens movements themselves actually serve to move only the camera body through the immobile image plane. If this does not seem practical for the owners of existing TS-E lenses to achieve, it is good to know that it is not always necessary, given the "fudge factors" available in post-processing, and that it is still possible to achieve with some extra effort and cost, via various adapters and rails.

I hope this helps.

David


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## mackguyver (Apr 21, 2014)

dafrank said:


> And as to whether having a super-telephoto-like lens mount adapter on a TS-E lens would make multiple exposure panorama-making easier, by not affecting the perspective of the multiple shifted exposures, the answer is: I think so. One TS-E's shifted lens view's perspective will not exactly match the perspective of a view from an image shifted along the same axis by the same lens, unless an appropriate image plane shift could mitigate it. To do this properly, it would work best if only the camera-sensor back itself were shifted through the image plane, and, when the lens itself is immobile on a tripod, the lens movements themselves actually serve to move only the camera body through the immobile image plane. If this does not seem practical for the owners of existing TS-E lenses to achieve, it is good to know that it is not always necessary, given the "fudge factors" available in post-processing, and that it is still possible to achieve with some extra effort and cost, via various adapters and rails.


David, thank you for the informative reply, and in regards to the last point, here's a simple way to eliminate parallax with the TS-E lenses from Outback Photo: Workflow Technique #058: Avoiding Parallax while Stitching with Shift Lenses. Solution #2 in the article is particularly easy.


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## privatebydesign (Apr 21, 2014)

mackguyver said:


> dafrank said:
> 
> 
> > And as to whether having a super-telephoto-like lens mount adapter on a TS-E lens would make multiple exposure panorama-making easier, by not affecting the perspective of the multiple shifted exposures, the answer is: I think so. One TS-E's shifted lens view's perspective will not exactly match the perspective of a view from an image shifted along the same axis by the same lens, unless an appropriate image plane shift could mitigate it. To do this properly, it would work best if only the camera-sensor back itself were shifted through the image plane, and, when the lens itself is immobile on a tripod, the lens movements themselves actually serve to move only the camera body through the immobile image plane. If this does not seem practical for the owners of existing TS-E lenses to achieve, it is good to know that it is not always necessary, given the "fudge factors" available in post-processing, and that it is still possible to achieve with some extra effort and cost, via various adapters and rails.
> ...



I linked to that article in the other thread I linked as well!

And that works fine but for a couple of very useful stitch techniques. It doesn't work quite so well vertically unless you are using the screw macro style adapter, but more persuasively for me, if you do a four image stitch with the lens/body at 10, 8, 4, and 2 O'clock the technique fails completely unless you have a geared center column on your tripod. However the lens mount if done as I suggested, between the tilt and shift mechanics, would make a parallax free four rotated and shifted image stitch very easy.

Trouble is, how many people shoot like that? How often is parallax an issue? How often do we need 90 MP images etc etc. Fun to talk about, not much in the way of actual practical problem solving though.

As for David's comments re the different kinds of tilt you can get by changing the tilt axis line, that was my point about these Canon lenses never being replacements for view cameras, however, if shift and rise, and swing and tilt, are specialised, the variations on tilt are even more so, and are really the realm of very specialised perspective distortion work. But, the elephant in the room for the short Canon/Nikon/et al T/S-P/C lenses, and I'd expect the 45 at least to have similar issues, is the retrofocus design that throws even solid understanding of the different types of tilt and swing out the window, the entry points are not where they are supposed to be and they are not where they would be with equivalent view camera fov setups so tilt will never work the same way.


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## StudentOfLight (Apr 21, 2014)

Superimposing grid-lines on Live view sounds awesome. With that and focus peaking, I'll know exactly where the wedge of focus lies, and how it broadens/tapers across the scene. Very handy for the odd occasion when I shoot off-tripod.

I was addicted the moment I touched the TS-E 24mm f/3.5L II. Can't wait for these longer TS-E models. I definitely will be getting one of them.


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## timcz (Apr 22, 2014)

I have owned the 45mm TS previously, and sold it to actually get the 24 V2, which I love. But I do miss the 45.

All I can think of with this post is that the lens will come with an L price tag as well, and wondering if I should go pick up a current 45mm while I can. They are priced pretty well atm, and I found my previous one to be quite sharp.


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## 100 (Apr 22, 2014)

StudentOfLight said:


> Superimposing grid-lines on Live view sounds awesome. With that and focus peaking, I'll know exactly where the wedge of focus lies, and how it broadens/tapers across the scene. Very handy for the odd occasion when I shoot off-tripod.
> 
> I was addicted the moment I touched the TS-E 24mm f/3.5L II. Can't wait for these longer TS-E models. I definitely will be getting one of them.



It would be nice to have, but wouldn’t the camera have to make a 3D scan of the scene and its own 3D position in it? 
Being one foot above street level is not the same as being five foot above it when you want to apply tilt. 
Keith Cooper has some informative articles on his website, the link below is about the using tilt
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/using_tilt.html


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## Woody (Apr 22, 2014)

Is this the so-called Year of the Lens?


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## TAF (Apr 22, 2014)

hendrik-sg said:


> Unique feature?
> 
> Maybe a uniquely high price?




Nothing unique about a Canon L lens having a high price...

Perhaps they'll be unique by being really affordable L's? Nah...


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## scottburgess (Apr 22, 2014)

mackguyver said:


> ...and back to the original post...I wonder what the unique feature will be. I hope it's not IS as that would add a lot of cost to lenses that would be used on the tripod 99% of the time for most people. Macro (even 1:2) would be pretty cool and that's what I'm hoping for if anything. Or maybe they'll have a built in teleconverter . Beyond that, maybe the T/S mechanisms will improved beyond the current TS-E Ls, with more durable parts.



I've wished for this too, but as it turns out the TS-E and macro designs are not terribly compatible. Apparently substantial field curvature is desirable in a tilt-shift lens (makes it much easier to use), while macro lenses try for a very flat field. So any such design I'm guessing would have significant compromises one way or another. Not saying it can't or won't happen, just that it doesn't seem likely to me.

I think Neuro hit it about right--I expect the tilt-shift planes to be independently adjustable like the 17mm and 24mm II, and some upgrade in image quality (I would expect noticeable improvement in the 45mm). That all seems reasonable. The persistent over-hinting that we're all going to get egg in our beer, not so reasonable. 

Everything is shaping up for a coordinated Photokina product push from Canon--I suspect two camera bodies (the new Rebel T6i and something else; I think a new 1DX Mii is not set until fall 2015, but _if_ Canon plans to do a 7D Mii it will probably be shipping before Christmas 2014, otherwise perhaps only an M3), 3-4 prime and TS-E lenses, 1-2 great white development announcements, and a few zooms. But I expect silence until then. And mostly silence afterwards until spring of 2015. Right now, I think a Rebel and M3 are the remaining cameras this year and the 7D line might be dead (effectively replaced by the 6D above and the 70D below). Ask me again in a couple weeks when I change my mind about everything. :

I'm just hoping there is something in all that which is more exciting than it sounds today. Right now, I feel a bit like Buzz Lightyear: "To disappointment, and _BEYOND_!"


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## brad goda (Apr 22, 2014)

I think or hoping the new feature will be locking or geared rotation of the independent rotators on the lens…


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## brad goda (Apr 23, 2014)

another feature that would be great is the dual rotators are allowed to fully rotate without stopping… and be able to lock in any position. ;D


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## traingineer (Apr 23, 2014)

Hopefully, these lenses are drool worthy.


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## tolusina (Apr 23, 2014)

Photo Credit, hotlinked from hartblei.de


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## scottburgess (Apr 24, 2014)

tolusina said:


> Photo Credit, hotlinked from hartblei.de



Holy moly, that's cool! And EXPENSIVE!


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## privatebydesign (Apr 24, 2014)

scottburgess said:


> tolusina said:
> 
> 
> > Photo Credit, hotlinked from hartblei.de
> ...



And next to pointless..............


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## zagga (May 9, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> And next to pointless..............



I read all your replies in this topic and can believe what you type. ???

I shoot buildings and the parallax is a real problem when doing shifts with the lens rather than the chip. So much so I bought the 17mm TS-E so I could avoid having to do them. While the amount of error is not massive it is still there and a mount like the ProPsolution linked to above or a possible integrated foot in the new lenses would eradicate this completely.

This very week I ran into the same issue and I had to make adjustments in PS to all the images........... I hate PS and much prefer getting the image right in camera than spending hours staring at a computer screen. There were 21 shots but that then equated to 63 shots to correct as they were 3 image stitches. Time wasted prating about in PS could have been time spent having a life or working on another project.


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## RobertG. (May 9, 2014)

Zagga,
"privatebydesign" calls all such lens collars for the Canon TS-E lenses pointless. I guess he has no own experience with any of them.... 
I use the Zörk lens collar with the TS-E 17mm and TS-E 24mm II, so I can write about my own experiences with it. But I don't speculate about the usefullness of sich collars without having used them. IMHO it is true that an integrated collar would probably be the better solution. The Zörk lens collars works pretty well but it is obvious that the lens barrel of the TS-E 17mm and TS-E 24mm II were not designed for this purpose.

Kind regards, Robert


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## mackguyver (May 9, 2014)

RobertG. said:


> Zagga,
> "privatebydesign" calls all such lens collars for the Canon TS-E lenses pointless. I guess he has no own experience with any of them....
> I use the Zörk lens collar with the TS-E 17mm and TS-E 24mm II, so I can write about my own experiences with it. But I don't speculate about the usefullness of sich collars without having used them. IMHO it is true that an integrated collar would probably be the better solution. The Zörk lens collars works pretty well but it is obvious that the lens barrel of the TS-E 17mm and TS-E 24mm II were not designed for this purpose.
> 
> Kind regards, Robert


Robert - just to chime in, FYI, I know private owns a TS-E 17 (and maybe others?) and given that you do have the collar, I'd like to hear about how you use them. I understand how they work and what they're for, but I haven't read about how people actually use them and why they are so useful. As a TS-E 24 II owner who recently picked up a 17 as well, I'm interested in learning more about the real-world use of the collars.


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## privatebydesign (May 10, 2014)

RobertG. said:


> Zagga,
> "privatebydesign" calls all such lens collars for the Canon TS-E lenses pointless. I guess he has no own experience with any of them....
> I use the Zörk lens collar with the TS-E 17mm and TS-E 24mm II, so I can write about my own experiences with it. But I don't speculate about the usefullness of sich collars without having used them. IMHO it is true that an integrated collar would probably be the better solution. The Zörk lens collars works pretty well but it is obvious that the lens barrel of the TS-E 17mm and TS-E 24mm II were not designed for this purpose.
> 
> Kind regards, Robert



And also, RobertG_"To say the truth I seldom use the Zörk adapter nowadays."_ http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=3055.msg376997#msg376997

Which begs the question, if it is so invaluable, and you paid such a hefty price for it, why do you find its use so unnecessary?

Alternatively, you could advise people on how great it is so they could get one, they can then find it is practically unnecessary and also choose to not use it, sounds like a great way to spend a few hundred dollars.


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## privatebydesign (May 10, 2014)

zagga said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > And next to pointless..............
> ...



Would you mind posting example images of the "real problem". I have shot thousands of images with the TS-E's and have yet to create a "problem" PS doesn't fix entirely automatically under the hood.


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## RobertG. (May 10, 2014)

With such a lens collar like the Zörk one or an integrated lens collar in the right position, you can create a panorama by shifting to the left, no shift, shifting to the right without any parallax error. Even full tilt can be used at the same time. If you shift the lens instead of the camera body, there is a parallax error. That's what my own tests have shown. Modern software like PS or Kolor Autopano Giga does correct the parallax error very well but there are sometimes applications (e.g. in interior photography) when such software can't be used. In such a particular case the photos need to be stitched manually and here parallax plays a big role. 

As I said before, I do shot mainly landscapes with my TS-E lenses and use software to stitch my photos, so the parallax error is no issue for me anymore. But in case it does become an issue, I do have at least a solution at hand.

About the hefty price: in November 2011 I paid €180 + €6 shipping + 19% VAT = €221,34 . That's OK for me, especially considering that's there is no cheaper alternative. If you consider the price of the material and the time to manufacture it, it is actually quite cheap. No wonder the price increased. The Hartblei "Canon TSE Tripod Collar" costs more than twice as much. That's what I would call a hefty price. But both lens collars can't be compared to each other because they do not offer exactly the same functionality.

"privatebydesign", if PS is such a great software, why bother to use a TS-E lens at all? (It is a rethorical question and no answer is expected.) 

Tilt-shift lenses are highly specialized gear and the same can be said about lens collars for them. For some shots these tools are needed and sometimes a smartphone will do.


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