# EOS M10 - First impressions from a (now former) M owner



## Act444 (Nov 12, 2015)

So today I found that my local camera store had the M10 in stock. Since it was their only one, I wasn't able to actually shoot with it, but I was able to see it/hold it and I brought along my M to compare size-wise. 

- The M10 has roughly the same footprint size-wise as the M (when face down) but the M10 is a bit thicker. (likely due to the flip screen)

- Although the M10 lacks the front grip that the M has, I still think the camera feels solid enough and I got used to holding it fairly quickly. YMMV on this one b/c I know camera ergonomics are a very personal thing...

- The M10 is actually a little heavier than the M (but not significantly so). Even with the battery and card inside the M, when I held both of them, the bare M10 felt at least the same weight if not a bit heavier. 

_____________________

Fast forward to a few moments later when I was contemplating a trade-in (I was actually more interested in the 15-45mm lens but given the price difference, thought it would make more sense to just get it in the M10 kit) and ended up doing just that. So thoughts after a couple hours playing with the M10 - in many ways it's an upgrade from the M, but in a few somewhat surprising ways it's also a downgrade as well. 


Benefits over the M:

- Flip screen. This may not be a big deal to many folks, but this is one of my main reasons for the switch. Flips up 180 degrees (but doesn't swivel or tilt down). 

- Pop-up flash! Another big reason for switching. When you slide the switch, the flash pops up and extends out in front of the camera (like the M3). Does not bounce, however - and only pops up when the screen is down or almost down (it gets blocked if the screen is tilted too much). The flash is tiny and only has limited range, but it sure beats having to carry around the 90EX flash (which I also got rid of) for dark places. _*CLARIFICATION* (See post #10 below): You CAN use the pop up flash when the screen is tilted 180 degrees, but it cannot be engaged - you must first flip the screen back down, pop the flash, then raise the screen again._

- WiFi connectivity is another great upgrade. Although it took a few minutes to set up initially, having your phone as the display/camera remote opens up a whole world of possibilities composition-wise. And transfer of images happens very quickly, too...in just a few seconds I can select my image, transfer it and have it in my phone's camera roll where it is ready for use in texts, social media updates, e-mails, etc. (I hope Canon finds a way to include this feature in the upcoming 5D4!)

- High ISO performance on the M10 is SLIGHTLY better (not significantly so, though - still not as good as the 7D Mark II). 

- While shooting, the histogram can be displayed in a box on screen and it updates in real time. (I think you could also do this on the M but I prefer the implementation on the M10)

- I tested the M10 with the adapter + the 28 2.8 IS and I found that the AF hunted less and was more decisive. 

- In playback mode there is a nice Image Search feature - I think that is new. 

- The record movie button seems to work in stills mode as well - this was not the case with the M


Drawbacks:

- No hot-shoe (but you knew that already).

- M10 shutter sound is louder. The M had an audible "snap" to it but on the M10 there is a definite CLICK when you take a picture. So that would make it harder for discrete shooting (if not in a moderately loud environment)...but no worse than any DSLR. Then again, the M wasn't exactly quiet anyway...

- No customizable menu! ("My Menu") A bit of a surprise to me because _*even the Rebel SL1 has this*_.

- Weird quirk with viewing RAW images on the camera display when shooting RAW only: image becomes very pixellated/grainy when zoomed in. Too pixellated to check focus, etc. _*This is the only Canon camera I've used where I've experienced this "phenomenon"*_ - this was NOT the case with the M, nor is it the case with any Canon DSLR I've ever used (including the SL1), where a high-res JPG preview can be generated from the RAW file itself to show on the screen. Don't know if it's a bug or what, but the only workaround with the M10 is to shoot both RAW + JPEG so the camera has an associated file to use when generating the high-res preview. Maybe this can be something that's looked into once there are more M10 owners?

- I found the M10 menu system somewhat less straightforward than the original M... plus, I'm seeing fewer customization options in general at least when it comes to menu settings. This would just mean that certain features would just require more button presses and menu searching. Mostly that's just due to the lack of the "My Menu" option.



General observations about the M10 (neither pros nor cons over the M):

- Image quality continues to be on a high level, especially when used with capable lenses. Again you are getting a heck of a photo out of such a small camera. 

- With native EF-M lenses I was unable to find a significant difference in AF performance over the M (software version 2.0). The M10 is slightly snappier if already in range, but if it's vastly out of focus or it's poorly lit, AF can and does still hunt (and fail to lock on). 

- The 15-45mm lens...15mm vs. 18mm is not much but it's enough to make a difference in walkaround shooting. I think I would rather have the 3mm extra on the wide end than the 10mm on the tele end if I was to use this camera for general shooting. 

- 15-45mm size: When retracted, it is considerably smaller than the 18-55 (and this can make the difference in whether the camera comes along!)...however, when in use, I find that there is little difference in size/handling between the two lenses. The 15-45 remains the lighter of the two lenses though. It is still larger than the 22mm regardless so don't expect to fit M body + 15-45 into a case that's just large enough for the M + 22. 

- Quality of the 15-45: can't speak too much of it yet, but from a few test shots inside it didn't exactly blow me away (but it's not awful either). At 15mm f3.5 I felt corners/edges on my test images were quite soft - and there is some distortion as well. Center of the image is very sharp though. However, I would need more extensive use with it, especially outdoors/landscape to have a final opinion.


___________________

I think that for me, the M10 is a hybrid of amazing upgrades and puzzling downgrades (in terms of feature set and control). However, at the end of the day, the 5D3 is always my go-to camera for any big event...and when I need extensive reach or speed, I've got the 7D2. The role of the M over the years has been mostly as a backup/secondary camera to my primary DSLR setup; the M also found use at work-related events as well as other shows or venues where a DSLR setup would either not be allowed or would be excessively cumbersome. The M has gotten me some great shots over the 3 years I've had it, many that I wouldn't have gotten otherwise, and I expect that the M10 will continue that legacy. For me, when it's all said and done, with the move from the M to the M10, I think the positive aspects outweigh the negative ones...and for that reason I consider myself a satisfied buyer. 

Thanks for reading.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 12, 2015)

Thanks for sharing!


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## eninja (Nov 12, 2015)

I want to be able to use remote speedlite. Is there a work around for the speedlite to sense the light of flash coming from the camera?


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## Act444 (Nov 12, 2015)

eninja said:


> I want to be able to use remote speedlite. Is there a work around for the speedlite to sense the light of flash coming from the camera?



Hmm...that I do not know, unfortunately.


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## koenkooi (Nov 12, 2015)

Act444 said:


> - No customizable menu! ("My Menu") A bit of a surprise to me because _*even the Rebel SL1 has this*_.
> 
> - Weird quirk with viewing RAW images on the camera display when shooting RAW only: image becomes very pixellated/grainy when zoomed in. Too pixellated to check focus, etc. _*This is the only Canon camera I've used where I've experienced this "phenomenon"*_ - this was NOT the case with the M, nor is it the case with any Canon DSLR I've ever used (including the SL1), where a high-res JPG preview can be generated from the RAW file itself to show on the screen. Don't know if it's a bug or what, but the only workaround with the M10 is to shoot both RAW + JPEG so the camera has an associated file to use when generating the high-res preview. Maybe this can be something that's looked into once there are more M10 owners?
> 
> - I found the M10 menu system somewhat less straightforward than the original M... plus, I'm seeing fewer customization options in general at least when it comes to menu settings. This would just mean that certain features would just require more button presses and menu searching. Mostly that's just due to the lack of the "My Menu" option.



The M3 and M10 are using powershot firmwares, the M1 and M2 were using EOS firmwares. The menu system change is due to that.

For me this means that there won't be a Magic Lantern for M3/M10, but the CHDK folks are already working on an M3 version, maybe M10 will follow later on.


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## iKenndac (Nov 12, 2015)

koenkooi said:


> The M3 and M10 are using powershot firmwares, the M1 and M2 were using EOS firmwares. The menu system change is due to that.



The M3 has a customisable "My Menu". No idea why the M10 doesn't.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 12, 2015)

eninja said:


> I want to be able to use remote speedlite. Is there a work around for the speedlite to sense the light of flash coming from the camera?



You'd need an optical slave trigger. However, for that to work the M10 would need to allow you to *manually* set the flash power, else the pre-flash emitted to determine flash exposure will prematurely trigger the optical slave(s). Not sure if manual flash exposure control is possible on the M10, find that out before shopping for triggers!

Assuming you have Canon Speedlites, you'd need a Sonia optical trigger (green), and possibly a hotshoe PC adapter (580/600 flashes have a PC port). There are cheaper optical triggers for non-Canon flashes (not that the Sonia green is too expensive), and there are 3rd party flashes with built-in optical slave capability.


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## sunnyVan (Nov 12, 2015)

I think the intended customers are not any of us on this forum. There're very few reasons to choose m10 over m1. I'm not even sure who m10 is for. If it's really for people who have few clues about how a real camera works, wouldn't these people rather get the G series. Do they care about sensor size or being able to change lens?


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## crisotunity (Nov 12, 2015)

I was actually looking forward to the M10. I've been happy enough with the M1 and (including trade-in) I wouldn't have minded paying £250-odd for a slightly faster AF, the slightly wider kit lens, the flippy screen, the built-in flash and the wifi functionality. It's my secondary camera and I don't really need the enthusiast level stuff on the M3.

Shame that the flash is not tiltable and can't work with the screen half-way up; great shame that the firmware is a step back from the M1/M2; and a pity that Canon put a a slow CPU in there. I'm going to stick to my M1 and see how it goes in 2016. 
I honestly feel that Canon have nailed the touch UI with the SL1/100D and the M series. There is an amazing, user-friendly, joy-to-use camera struggling to get out of Canon's M-labelled straight-jacket: I'd love to see them going all out with the next M instead of fretting over their low-end DSLRs.


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## MJ (Nov 12, 2015)

thank you for this detailed and well written preview, Act444!

I greatly appreciate!


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## Act444 (Nov 12, 2015)

No problem guys. 

One thing I should clarify regarding the pop-up flash - you actually can use the flash when the screen is all the way up (so yes, flash selfies are possible) - you just can't pop it up WHILE the screen is up. You have to pop up the flash when the screen is down, THEN raise the screen up. Sorry if that point confused anyone at first.


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## eninja (Nov 13, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> eninja said:
> 
> 
> > I want to be able to use remote speedlite. Is there a work around for the speedlite to sense the light of flash coming from the camera?
> ...



Hi Neuro, thanks, I knew there is a work around, I just did not now what is the term to start with. With this eos M10, all I worry is when I want to use a speedlite on a controlled scene.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 13, 2015)

eninja said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > eninja said:
> ...



Sort of a kuudgy workaround. I just had a look at the M10 manual, and there is no way to manually set the flash power level, it's always automatic flash exposure (there's flash exposure comp, but that's just modified automatic exposure). In other words, there will *always* be a pre flash to determine the flash exposure, and that will prematurely trigger any optical slave flashes. 

So, the only way it will work is to use the flash exposure lock (FEL) feature. That fires the pre flash (which triggers the slaves) but delays the actual flash until you shoot. So, you'd activate FEL and the preflash would fire, then you'd wait for the slaves to recycle, then take the shot and the on-camera flash would fire with the shot and trigger the slaves at the right time. 

Like I said, kludgy. Depends on how important it is to you...


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## ninjapeps (Nov 13, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Sort of a kuudgy workaround. I just had a look at the M10 manual, and there is no way to manually set the flash power level, it's always automatic flash exposure (there's flash exposure comp, but that's just modified automatic exposure). In other words, there will *always* be a pre flash to determine the flash exposure, and that will prematurely trigger any optical slave flashes.
> 
> So, the only way it will work is to use the flash exposure lock (FEL) feature. That fires the pre flash (which triggers the slaves) but delays the actual flash until you shoot. So, you'd activate FEL and the preflash would fire, then you'd wait for the slaves to recycle, then take the shot and the on-camera flash would fire with the shot and trigger the slaves at the right time.
> 
> Like I said, kludgy. Depends on how important it is to you...



If you're hand-holding a flash, you can block the sensor first to keep it from getting triggered by the pre-flash. If they'll be in fixed locations, you can use your hand to block the pop-up flash. Those are what a friend of mine did when his flash's foot broke. Still not very good solutions but options are limited.


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## jd7 (Nov 13, 2015)

crisotunity said:


> ... I'd love to see them going all out with the next M instead of fretting over their low-end DSLRs.



At the risk of going too far off topic ... and without directing this at Crisotunity in particular ...

I see this sort of comment often enough around the interwebs, and I'm always curious. As a genuine question, what is the reasoning which leads to the conclusion that Canon is not releasing a high-end / prosumer / however you would like to describe it mirrorless camera in an attempt to protect low-end DSLR sales?

FWIW, my thinking is this:

I assume Canon's cost of manufacture of a mirrorless camera and a low-end DSLR is pretty similar (I don't have a great basis for that, so perhaps I'm wrong?).

I believe I am correct in saying the sales figures tell us that the great proportion of low-end DSLR buyers only own one lens, and that very, very few low-end DSLR buyers are going to have a large stable of lenses.

So, why would Canon care if buyers who might have bought a low-end DSLR buy a low-end mirrorless camera instead, provided they buy a Canon camera??

In fact, I would speculate there is a market out there amongst existing DSLR owners who are more likely to be tempted by a mirrorless camera than buying another low-end DSLR.

To the extent buyers might become interested in moving up to higher end gear, the changeover from EF-M to EF (or indeed to EF-S) may well not be very different for many users compared with the changeover from EF-S to EF. Certainly some people with EF-S crop cameras build up a collection of EF lenses before getting a full frame camera, but what percentage of buyers are we talking about? And in any event, Canon selling a "better" prosumer mirrorless camera doesn't stop it from also selling EF-S crop cameras and no doubt some people would still go that way, plus Canon's EF lens portfolio is likely to be a draw-card for many photographers regardless of what gear they start with. So, looking at it overall, it is not obvious to me that Canon would really risk losing that many people along the path to higher end gear if more of them started with EF-M than EF-S.

If I had to guess, I'd say the reason Canon doesn't have a "better" prosumer mirrorless camera has a more innocent explanation than is often suggested: I think Canon doesn't see the value proposition in it for enough of their likely customers. A low-end DSLR may not seem as "high tech", but battery life is better, AF is probably going to be as good in many cases (probably debate-able, but think about cameras at comparable price points), OVF v EFV (subjective as to which you prefer), etc. I think Canon sees the value proposition in mirrorless cameras, at least with the present state of technology, as being for small/light cameras and related lenses (as seen in the EOS M system), and otherwise that you are better off with a DSLR for now. If/when the technology for mirrorless enables them to make a comparable camera (in terms of its abilities as a photographic tool) to a low-end DSLR at a similar price point, I don't see why Canon won't be selling mirrorless cameras in a range of sizes/weights, and perhaps even with various lens mounts (at least EF-M mirrorless cameras and EF mirrorless cameras).


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## eninja (Nov 13, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> eninja said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Is it? i just read the manual, it says it can in adjusting flash power output section, or i understood it wrong.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 13, 2015)

eninja said:


> Is it? i just read the manual, it says it can in adjusting flash power output section, or i understood it wrong.



You're right - I missed that because it's with 'other settings' not the section on flash.


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## Act444 (Nov 14, 2015)

*further thoughts & observations:*

As I get more familiar and comfortable with the camera, I'm becoming more convinced I made the right decision...

- FLASH: Manual flash control is possible, but limited. In E-TTL II mode, you can set exposure comp from -2 to +2, and there's also a full manual mode, although it's limited to selection between "Minimum", "Medium" and "Maximum" (not fractions of full power like the Speedlites). In this mode as far as I can tell there is NO pre-flash fired, so for those that asked about triggering external units, this may be looked into as a possible workaround. 

- When shooting with flash, press right on the pad (the bolt icon) and a quick menu comes up that allows you to set flash exposure comp (and also turn the flash off, although it may be easier to just physically push the flash unit down to accomplish this). Very nice, intuitive shortcut here.

- In Manual exposure mode: You select the parameter to control by either touching the display or pressing up on the pad (the +/- and trash icon) and then turn the dial around the shutter button to choose your setting. You can alternate between shutter speed, aperture and exposure compensation (unfortunately I CANNOT seem to be able to select ISO in this fashion - you must touch the indicator on the screen...a bit of a disappointment). And yes, there is exposure comp in manual mode - something the original M did not have!

- Flash shooting in near-darkness - expect at least two seconds for AF to lock on (if it does), then another second-plus of shutter lag before pic is taken. Definitely NOT the camera for serious indoor or action flash photography (but OK for family snapshots, selfies, etc.). 

- Controls like White Balance, focus mode and drive mode require accessing the menu. (This was the case with the original M as well, so this is not a negative in that regard). 

- It IS possible to set a custom white balance on this camera (which somewhat surprised me given the general stripped-down nature of the system).


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## PhotoGuy (Dec 4, 2015)

Had the chance to play with the M10 + 15-45 in store today. Focus was really fast. You can see it prefocusing all the time which probably drains battery but makes it very fast when already prefocused.
I challenged it by quickly pointing it from near to far and snapping a shot and was impressed by its speed - way faster than my fuji e1 (with new firmware). If the M10 manages to be this fast AND precise in focus (which my fuji quite often struggles with - after the update) this should be awesome!
I really liked changing settings via the touchscreen. Combined with the stunning 22mm this should be a killer combo.
Anyone else had the chance to play with it already?


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## surapon (Dec 5, 2015)

Act444 said:


> So today I found that my local camera store had the M10 in stock. Since it was their only one, I wasn't able to actually shoot with it, but I was able to see it/hold it and I brought along my M to compare size-wise.
> 
> - The M10 has roughly the same footprint size-wise as the M (when face down) but the M10 is a bit thicker. (likely due to the flip screen)
> 
> ...




Dear friend Mr. Act444.
I love my EOS-M MK I, and love her as pocket/ point and shoot camera, except the LOW -ISO Max = 6400. Now M-10 = 18 MP, and EOS M MK III = 24 MP( with new design Grip ) have been in US. market Now---Same ISO = 12,800. Which one I should buy , Sir. M10 or M MK III ?
Thank you, Sir
Surapon.


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## brad-man (Dec 5, 2015)

surapon said:


> Act444 said:
> 
> 
> > So today I found that my local camera store had the M10 in stock. Since it was their only one, I wasn't able to actually shoot with it, but I was able to see it/hold it and I brought along my M to compare size-wise.
> ...



I thought I might chime in here uninvited. If you decide on the M3, B&H is still offering the M3 + the EVF for $449. Click the "Bundle" button and chose the EVF. They are perpetually out of stock, so there will be a week or so delay before shipping. Mine arrives Tuesday.

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1180765-REG/canon_9694b001_eos_m3_mirrorless_digital.html


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## Act444 (Dec 5, 2015)

surapon said:


> Dear friend Mr. Act444.
> I love my EOS-M MK I, and love her as pocket/ point and shoot camera, except the LOW -ISO Max = 6400. Now M-10 = 18 MP, and EOS M MK III = 24 MP( with new design Grip ) have been in US. market Now---Same ISO = 12,800. Which one I should buy , Sir. M10 or M MK III ?
> Thank you, Sir
> Surapon.



Hey Surapon. Ultimately it's going to come down to your personal preferences and requirements...but I can tell you that my primary reason for choosing the M10 over the M3 (apart from price) was size-driven. I reasoned if I was going to carry a camera larger than the overall size of the M, I may as well carry a DSLR. Yes, the M10 has fewer megapixels than the M3, and likely, will have slightly better high ISO performance as a result. However, the M10 feels much more like a glorified Powershot than an EOS camera, even more so than the original M. The M3, even without a viewfinder, exuded more of the "EOS" ethos to me. 

If I were to sum up the M10 in one sentence: it is a Powershot camera with interchangeable lenses. And I'm fine with that. It does exactly what I need it to do and serves its role perfectly in my "gear bag". If I want something more, I've got the 5D and 7D and many EF lenses to choose from.

It just depends on what works best for you. I would recommend finding the nearest store and handling both cameras for yourself before making a decision.


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## surapon (Dec 6, 2015)

brad-man said:


> surapon said:
> 
> 
> > Act444 said:
> ...



Thank you, Sir, dear friend Mr. brad-man.
I already check with BH. and they do not know When the M 3 will be in their store.
I will check again next week.
Thank you, Sir.
Surapon


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## surapon (Dec 6, 2015)

Act444 said:


> surapon said:
> 
> 
> > Dear friend Mr. Act444.
> ...




Thousand Thanks , Sir, dear friend Mr. Act444 .
I will go to the local Camera shop and test Both New M3 and M10, to see the type that I can use or fit in my big hands.
Have a great Sunday , Sir.
Surapon.


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## bholliman (Dec 6, 2015)

I've considered the M3 and M10 but have ended up sticking with my 2 1/2 year old M1. It still does a great job with what I use it for. The upgrades between the newest M's are just not significant enough to entice me to upgrade.


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## brad-man (Dec 6, 2015)

bholliman said:


> I've considered the M3 and M10 but have ended up sticking with my 2 1/2 year old M1. It still does a great job with what I use it for. The upgrades between the newest M's are just not significant enough to entice me to upgrade.



I've had the M since the fire sale and have always been greatly impressed with the IQ/size ratio. I've since acquired all the EF-M lenses as well. Though I never considered the M10 (so why am I posting in this thread?), I have been interested in the M3 since its release. Improved ergonomics (including tilt screen), improved AF, and a 30% increase in resolution made it very tempting. The problem was that I was interested in having the EVF for certain shooting conditions, but couldn't justify the expense. The current B&H sale eliminated that reservation.


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## bf (Dec 16, 2015)

M3+EVF is a little tempting. Yet, I'm not convinced to give up on my M.


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## crashpc (Dec 28, 2015)

bf said:


> M3+EVF is a little tempting. Yet, I'm not convinced to give up on my M.


I have yet to see some work where M3 will do, and original M will absolutely not. Especially for static imagery. Then I might jump. Untill then, I rather save for glass, M4, or FF cam...
M3 has also some drawbacks and steps back. Poorer in-camera lens correction if any, JPEG displaying issues, green casts towards corners, more vignetting, amplified contrast for most profiles (LR,DPP), and maybe more things I don´t even remember. And it is bigger. I´ve seen mint M3 for peanuts, and still didn´t jump on that.


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## Act444 (Jan 21, 2016)

So, just a quick follow-up...I took the M10 and 11-22 on a trip a few weeks ago for a shoot inside some real-estate...wasn't enough space to bring a DSLR along, unfortunately...and I have to say, I'm REALLY impressed by the image quality. It's truly DSLR-class, minus the weight. The IS combined with the wide angle works wonders in being able to control the ISO in handheld shooting. In fact, I even had a couple shots that approached FF quality (!) in sharpness but that's probably a bigger testament to the excellent 11-22mm lens than the M10 itself...

Now, that 11-24 on a 5D3 or 5DSR would be even more amazing, if I could spring for it...but I digress...


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## ashmadux (Jan 21, 2016)

Act444 said:


> So, just a quick follow-up...I took the M10 and 11-22 on a trip a few weeks ago for a shoot inside some real-estate...wasn't enough space to bring a DSLR along, unfortunately...and I have to say, I'm REALLY impressed by the image quality. It's truly DSLR-class, minus the weight. The IS combined with the wide angle works wonders in being able to control the ISO in handheld shooting. In fact, I even had a couple shots that approached FF quality (!) in sharpness but that's probably a bigger testament to the excellent 11-22mm lens than the M10 itself...
> 
> Now, that 11-24 on a 5D3 or 5DSR would be even more amazing, if I could spring for it...but I digress...



Well, technically it is a rebel in a smaller shell,so yeah, the image quality is your basic aspc good stuff.

I own an M1 (LOVE IT) , played with the m2 at BH (feels great, no flash...aww), and am testing an M3, with likely is goign back to the shop.

Right now im actually preferring the minimal controls on the M1, because the main dial is fairly loose and it keeps getting moved accidentally. Very annoying.

The M3 right now is a tragedy- the powershot firmware is just an idiot move by canon - and there is no update on the horizon, even though its been on the market for a long time. The m1 firmware is fast.

The M3 sensor is disappointing. Its no better than the 18mp it replaces, and pretty damn noisy. By far the most disappointing thing about this camera.

The m3 AF box is too damn big. Another idiot move by canon engineers. ive been having Af issues with this thing, and partially because its very easy for the large box to select a focus point in front of behind hat you intended. Ridiculous.

The lack of a fully articulating flip screen is incredibly limiting compared to the great screen on the g3. Useless for portrait photos entirely. Its another tragedy.

Overall feeling is cheaper an frail compared to the m1. Them 1 is a lil metal beast. The m3- though the grip is fantastic - has the ultra cheap plastic feel of the revel t4+.

While it seems good to have a optional EVF, in truth, its a pain in the arse. With it installed, it will wreak havoc on your storage setups. because it gives th ebody a very tall 'head'. With it off, its the same as the trusty m1.

Actually, just writing this post, ive decided to return it. Too many negatives.

Thank goodness my m1 rocks out with its "" out. Who needs a half awesome camera. Sheesh Canon...sheesh.


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## nhz (Jan 21, 2016)

Act444 said:


> So, just a quick follow-up...I took the M10 and 11-22 on a trip a few weeks ago for a shoot inside some real-estate...wasn't enough space to bring a DSLR along, unfortunately...and I have to say, I'm REALLY impressed by the image quality. It's truly DSLR-class, minus the weight. The IS combined with the wide angle works wonders in being able to control the ISO in handheld shooting. In fact, I even had a couple shots that approached FF quality (!) in sharpness but that's probably a bigger testament to the excellent 11-22mm lens than the M10 itself...
> 
> Now, that 11-24 on a 5D3 or 5DSR would be even more amazing, if I could spring for it...but I digress...



Any more detailed comments on the new 15-45 lens? For me this would be an interesting walkaround alternative on such a small camera, but it's slow and my impression from a few forums posts is that it is a step below the standard 18-55 kit zoom in image quality. Which is sad and not encouraging for the direction Canon is going with the M series. 

If you need a big lens like the 15-85 for good IQ in the WA-to-normal range, you might as well use a SL1 or Rebel because the size/weight savings will be small and the DSLR will handle/balance better.


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## Act444 (Jul 12, 2016)

Better late than never I guess - about the 15-45mm lens, it's decent enough in good light. I am noticing moderate to significant corner softness at 15mm though, even at f8. Also, the long end is only 45mm and f6.3, making it difficult to blur out the background unless you either get REALLY close to your subject and/or your background is REALLY far away. Optically, I prefer the 18-55. 

However, I find the extra 3mm on the wide end to be MUCH more useful than the 10mm on the long end, and thus worth the concessions - IMO, the 15-45mm range is better suited to general walk around shooting on a non-viewfinder camera like the M. With the other lens, 18mm just wasn't quite wide enough in numerous situations, I found.


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## Act444 (Dec 10, 2016)

Following up on this - a sort of 1-year update...

I've overhauled my DSLR setup in the past few months and now the M10 is the only crop-sensor camera I have - all my DSLRs are now FF. A few more things in playing around with it:

- A speed demon it's not. It's fine for landscape, portrait, or shots where timing isn't important or critical, but for action shooting, even with preview turned off, the shutter lag as well as shot-to-shot lag eats away precious seconds (and I'm using a SanDisk Extreme Pro card, about as fast as it gets). Any good action shot taken with this camera will come down to anticipation, timing, and (mostly...) luck. Otherwise stick with your DSLR. (Will be looking to see how much, if any, the M5 rectifies this problem...)

- This is the camera I take with me to shows that ban or restrict so-called "professional cameras" - especially with the 22mm attached, it passes as a compact camera which I love. And the image quality is not far behind said cameras at all...

- I have no major issues with IQ with any of the lenses I have for it (22, 11-22, 15-45, 55-200). If I had to nitpick, perhaps corner softness at 15mm with 15-45 and some softness/lack of contrast with the 55-200 toward the 200mm end - at least the latter can be rectified in post somewhat. Looking at possibly adding the 18-150, will depend on reviews and/or any tests I'm able to conduct. Otherwise, it's an excellent "bridge camera" between my iPhone and my 5D.

- Sometimes the lack of buttons and customization can make shooting a "chore" with this camera, particularly with changing settings. I suppose the M3 and M5 are better in this regard - hopefully I can play around with the latter to see if it's any better. 

- Durability: I had a mishap earlier in the year where I unfortunately dropped the camera onto pavement (but at least it wasn't the DSLR!). Although the lens took the brunt of the hit, the camera was fine, barely a scratch. Both camera and lens still work fine, although the focus ring is now stiff. So I wouldn't recommend verifying this, but it held up for me. 

- Battery life: Not terrible, but could be better. If using the camera for a full day, a fully-charged spare is necessary. BUT- this was the case with the original M as well.


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## drjlo (Dec 10, 2016)

Act444 said:


> - High ISO performance on the M10 is SLIGHTLY better (not significantly so, though - still not as good as the 7D Mark II).
> 
> 
> - No hot-shoe (but you knew that already).



:-[


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## Ste_S (Jul 18, 2017)

sunnyVan said:


> I think the intended customers are not any of us on this forum. There're very few reasons to choose m10 over m1. I'm not even sure who m10 is for. If it's really for people who have few clues about how a real camera works, wouldn't these people rather get the G series. *Do they care about sensor size or being able to change lens?*



Yup. I ended up buying one yesterday for those very reasons.

I've been very happy with 35mm film compacts / rangefinders for the kind of photography I do. They're cheap, have good quality 40 or 50mm optics and can deal with flashless low light situations well.

I've been looking for a digital equivalent for a while and getting frustrated. At the cheaper end they're essentially small sensored mobile phone cameras with a honking zoom stuck on. They struggle on low light and at the extremes of the daft zooms they're fitted with.

Which is where the M10 comes in. It's (relatively) cheap, has a big sensor and I can put a prime lens on it.
Very impressed with results pottering around in my garden yesterday evening in low light.


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## rrcphoto (Jul 24, 2017)

sunnyVan said:


> I think the intended customers are not any of us on this forum. There're very few reasons to choose m10 over m1.



except the M is no longer available. Neither is the m2.

the target crowd? in alot of cases the first ILC that some will buy. it's the smallest / largest sensored camera with a half decent LCD.

if the M20 has the M5/6 guts and simply lacks the buttons, I'll be sorely tempted to get one for an ultra portable camera.


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