# Lack of red lighted AF points 5d4; big deal?



## ScottyP (Jan 31, 2017)

One detail/gripe I heard mentioned about 5d3 (and 1dx) was the individual AF points don't light up red so it can be tricky to place a particular point over a subject or an eye, etc, in dim light. I see they addressed that in the 1dx2 but not in the 5d4. 

Who has had 5d3 or 5d4 cameras and another camera that does have red AF points and can comment on how irritating or not irritating the in practice is the lack thereof?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jan 31, 2017)

Its one of the issues with my 5D MK III, and in low light theater work, its a pain. 

The lights do light up just a focus is achieved, its just that its tough in near dark to put a focus spot on a particular subject because you cannot see them. Area focus works, but may not select what you want. Its made more difficult in low light because lenses are wide open and dof is at a minimum leaving no room for error.

The 1D MK IV was the last Canon model with nicely lighted focus points. The 1DX mk I & II are just OK. This is one area where a Nikon pro body is a improvement, but we have to look at overall performance for the buck.


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## Mikehit (Jan 31, 2017)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> The 1D MK IV was the last Canon model with nicely lighted focus points. The 1DX mk I & II are just OK. This is one area where a Nikon pro body is a improvement, but we have to look at overall performance for the buck.



The 7D2 has them


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## Valvebounce (Jan 31, 2017)

Hi Scotty. 
I don't know how the 1D cameras do it but the 7DII has the focus points flash red (at least that is what mine do, it may be a setting I selected rather than on continually! ???) I find this a vast improvement over the original 7D, definitely helps with placing the focus points in poor light, the original 7D is a capable camera but is much harder to place the AF points. 
I don't know if this helps you at all. 

Cheers, Graham.


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## Sharlin (Jan 31, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > The 1D MK IV was the last Canon model with nicely lighted focus points. The 1DX mk I & II are just OK. This is one area where a Nikon pro body is a improvement, but we have to look at overall performance for the buck.
> ...



No, the 7D2, like the 5D4, the 80D, etc. has a different system that just illuminates the whole viewfinder LCD from the side with leds. It cannot illuminate individual AF points like the 1DX2 can.


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## Kit Lens Jockey (Jan 31, 2017)

I hate the way the AF illumination functions on the 5D Mk3 and Mk4. I much prefer how it is on my 6D. I just don't understand why it can't work the same way on the 5D!!!

With the 6D, you get one red flash of the AF point when AF initially starts, and one flash when it achieves focus the 5D only flashes when it achieves focus, not when you first push the button. Why can't they just make the 5D flash when you initially push the button, like the 6D? I understand the display technology in the 5D is viewfinder is different, but obviously they still have the means to illuminate the viewfinder points in red, because they do when focus locks on, so why on earth aren't they just consistent with how that works between cameras?

As far as being a big deal or not, I've learned to live with it. In low light, I've learned to hit the AF point select button so that all of the AF points light up, and at least that way I can locate the one I'm using on my subject. In low light, doing that without having the point lit up is impossible!


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## Sharlin (Jan 31, 2017)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi Scotty.
> I don't know how the 1D cameras do it but the 7DII has the focus points flash red (at least that is what mine do, it may be a setting I selected rather than on continually! ???)



Yep. The AF point display can be set to continuously blink, but only in AI Servo mode.


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## YuengLinger (Jan 31, 2017)

Mine light up fine in AI Servo. Not sure what I'm missing. Seems better than the 5DIII in low light.


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## ScottyP (Jan 31, 2017)

I guess there's always the 6d2 to consider. That can't be more than 12 months off can it?Really I am only looking for a bit more sophosticated AF. Would also like a higher flash sync speed plus any high ISO IQ they can wring out of it. Don't need super weatherproofing or 30+ MP for what I do.


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## Mikehit (Feb 1, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> No, the 7D2, like the 5D4, the 80D, etc. has a different system that just illuminates the whole viewfinder LCD from the side with leds. It cannot illuminate individual AF points like the 1DX2 can.



True. But given that the desire was to be able to see the AF points so you can place them on the subject, it is the same purpose, especially as the AF point also flashes just as it does in good light. if that is a cheaper way to implement it then there is even less reason to put it into other models.


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## BobG (Feb 1, 2017)

Hi Scotty, 
I'm not sure I understand the issue. I only have an old 40D but when I can't see the focus point in the viewfinder I just press the 'select focus point' button and the currently selected point is illuminated. Position it over the target and press the shutter button to cancel/shoot


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Feb 1, 2017)

BobG said:


> Hi Scotty,
> I'm not sure I understand the issue. I only have an old 40D but when I can't see the focus point in the viewfinder I just press the 'select focus point' button and the currently selected point is illuminated. Position it over the target and press the shutter button to cancel/shoot



Have you tried to keep pressing that button with moving targets, dancers moving and leaping all the while pushing the AF button too? I do not use AI Servo, just one shot. I also have almost no feeling in my fingers. I've glued a large button on top of the shutter release so I can feel it.

With a 1D MK IV you can light the selected AF point continuously, making it a pleasure to use rather than a button pushing chore.


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## GlynH (Mar 11, 2017)

If I'm reading and understanding this correctly then this is something that my original 5D had but was dropped in just about every camera after that. My 7D and 5D3 have those terrible black boxes.

It is the one thing that has put me off the 5D MKIV and is a problem due to the transmissive LCD screen I believe.

Nice to have all that info plastered across it but at the expense of the individually illuminated red focus points.

Seems they have reactivated that feature in the 1DX II which is why the larger body is on my shortlist.

Just a pity they couldn't have done the same for the MKIV as it was released after the DX2.

So in answer to your question it's a big deal for me! 

-=Glyn=-


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 11, 2017)

GlynH said:


> If I'm reading and understanding this correctly then this is something that my original 5D had but was dropped in just about every camera after that. My 7D and 5D3 have those terrible black boxes.
> 
> It is the one thing that has put me off the 5D MKIV and is a problem due to the transmissive LCD screen I believe.
> 
> ...



No, its not reactivated in the 1DX II. It uses the flashing led lit from the side while in AI servo just like the 1DX and 7D MK II, and 5D MK IV. The 1D MK IV and earlier had the selected point lit in red continuously (If you set the options). You could easily follow movement in low light keeping that point on the subject and open the shutter at the exact moment you wanted. They can have their transmissive screen back as far as I'm concerned.

Canon has not figured out how to bring back the old system. Its a pain to try to follow a subject in low light, and costs me lost shots.


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## R1-7D (Mar 11, 2017)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> GlynH said:
> 
> 
> > If I'm reading and understanding this correctly then this is something that my original 5D had but was dropped in just about every camera after that. My 7D and 5D3 have those terrible black boxes.
> ...



Just a quick correction: the 1DX Mark II does have permanent red focus points, both in single shot focus and servo. They've fixed the issue somehow in the Mark II compared to the original 1DX, which does flash red. 

I don't why they didn't do the same thing with the 5D Mark IV.


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## Jack Douglas (Mar 12, 2017)

I had the 1D4 and loved the illuminated points so much that that was an influence on me choosing the 1DX2 over the 5D4. How important it really is, is a personal thing.

Jack


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## R1-7D (Mar 12, 2017)

With the 1DX and 5D3 I hit the af switcher button to illuminate all the points in a dimly lit situation when shooting stills. That helps me 'aim' the camera, so to speak. 

The 1DX thankfully has the flashing red AF points in servo mode. It's not perfect, but it's certainly better than not having it, like on the 5D3. 

The 1DX Mark II is a huge improvement with its always red AF points. It seems strange to me that Canon opted not to include red points in the 5D4.


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## bluenoser1993 (Mar 12, 2017)

It never use to bother me, until recently. My son joined a volleyball ball team and I'm using servo more than before. Compounding things is the uniform, 100% black. I can't see if the focus is on the player I want and the camera can't see a darn thing to focus on anyway. Really struggling for keepers when following the action, the only decent shots are coming from prefocussed shots and waiting for the play to come to my spot. That's still pretty hit and miss at f/2.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 12, 2017)

bluenoser1993 said:


> It never use to bother me, until recently. My son joined a volleyball ball team and I'm using servo more than before. Compounding things is the uniform, 100% black. I can't see if the focus is on the player I want and the camera can't see a darn thing to focus on anyway. Really struggling for keepers when following the action, the only decent shots are coming from prefocussed shots and waiting for the play to come to my spot. That's still pretty hit and miss at f/2.



The camera requires detail to AF, if you have spot turned on, and the target is solid balck, its going to struggle. Use a larger area that more than covers the solid black.


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## pwp (Mar 12, 2017)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> No, its not reactivated in the 1DX II. It uses the flashing led lit from the side while in AI servo just like the 1DX and 7D MK II, and 5D MK IV. The 1D MK IV and earlier had the selected point lit in red continuously (If you set the options). You could easily follow movement in low light keeping that point on the subject and open the shutter at the exact moment you wanted. They can have their transmissive screen back as far as I'm concerned.
> 
> Canon has not figured out how to bring back the old system. Its a pain to try to follow a subject in low light, and costs me lost shots.



This lack of function has driven me nuts since the 5DIII and subsequently with my 5DIV. It also has cost me a lot of missed shots as I search in vain for the currently selected focus point. It's an epic fail. 

The constantly red illuminated current AF point in my 1D MkIV was one of the reasons I didn't retire it sooner. Even Canon I ever owned going back to a film EOS 1n right through to the 1D MkIV had the illuminated AF points. I'd also trade any minor benefits of the transmissive screen in a heartbeat to get this great productivity function back. 

-pw


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## Peakbirder (Mar 12, 2017)

I have just upgraded from a 1dx mki to mkii, I also have a 5Diii. I find the red lit focus point just far easier to use and see especially when operating in low light situations. It feels a more secure process.


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## GlynH (Mar 20, 2017)

Well today at the Photography Show at the NEC in Birmingham I got hands on the MKIV and the 1DX MKII and can confirm the focus points do light up red and flash the in-focus points on the 1DX.

It is fantastic to watch the focus points dance around the focussing screen.

Big let down going to the MKIV and having those black boxes again.

If only Canon had incorporated the same red focus points on the MKIV I wouldn't have hesitated to buy one.

The Show Price was £2849 down from £3499 which was a great deal for a genuine UK model...almost down to the grey import price of £2679

As it is I'm now wondering whether to spring for the 1DX or hold off until the 5D MKV 

Mind you the touchscreen was great for whizzing through the menus etc.

The only other tick in the negative box for me was Canon doing their usual conservative speed rating with the SD Card like they have with most previous 5D models and not incorporating the fastest standard at release time.

You could also argue that they might have chosen USB-C but at least they incorporated USB3 this time around.

Decisions...decisions.

-=Glyn=-


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## Gino (Mar 20, 2017)

I also wish the 5D MKIV had easier to view red autofocus points. 

Could Canon give the 5D MKIV the same red autofocus points set-up as the 1DX MKII via a firmware update, or is this a hardware issue and there is no way to make changes to the 5D MKIV autofocus points?

thanks


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## AlanF (Mar 20, 2017)

It's interesting how the absence of one minor feature, such as red focus points dancing around a screen, is enough to stop someone buying a camera. It clearly is a big deal for some.


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## Sharlin (Mar 20, 2017)

Gino said:


> I also wish the 5D MKIV had easier to view red autofocus points.
> 
> Could Canon give the 5D MKIV the same red autofocus points set-up as the 1DX MKII via a firmware update, or is this a hardware issue and there is no way to make changes to the 5D MKIV autofocus points?
> 
> thanks



It is strictly a hardware thing. The 1DX2 has some fancy additional optics in the viewfinder just to be able to overlay the red dots into the viewfinder image.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 20, 2017)

AlanF said:


> It's interesting how the absence of one minor feature, such as red focus points dancing around a screen, is enough to stop someone buying a camera. It clearly is a big deal for some.



Its not a problem except in low light, many don't use their camera that way, apparently including Canon engineers.


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## AlanF (Mar 20, 2017)

Jack Douglas said:


> I had the 1D4 and loved the illuminated points so much that that was an influence on me choosing the 1DX2 over the 5D4. How important it really is, is a personal thing.
> 
> Jack



We both do a lot of bird photography, and the lack of illumination doesn't seem to affect my use. I tend to use single point focus for sitting targets, and multi-points for BIF are against the sky, where the black squares stand out anyway.

Alan


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## Jack Douglas (Mar 20, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> Gino said:
> 
> 
> > I also wish the 5D MKIV had easier to view red autofocus points.
> ...




........ and imagine this, Neuro predicted it wouldn't/couldn't happen!  Had me worried for a while.

Alan, if you'd had a 1D4 or earlier with this feature you might have fallen in love with it. Not saying it is all that important, just something you hate to give up - I'm betting a huge number of 1DX users expressed this to Canon.

Jack


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## privatebydesign (Mar 20, 2017)

Jack Douglas said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > Gino said:
> ...



I remember that point by Neuro, Jack. I think he meant it couldn't be done with the transmissive screen as we have it, so no chance of firmware fixes or reintroduction without different hardware. The 1DX MkII has additional hardware, and drawings of the new arrangement were made available at launch.

The red line is the focus point illumination optical path, all well above the focusing screen.


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## Jack Douglas (Mar 20, 2017)

I just followed that photo tour of the L glass plant and was blown away. I think my lenses are a bargain! Probably not much different for the camera bodies too. I am spoiled for sure.

Jack


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## AlanF (Mar 20, 2017)

Jack
When do you find the red lighting useful?


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## Jack Douglas (Mar 21, 2017)

AlanF said:


> Jack
> When do you find the red lighting useful?



Always. It's like having a pointer identifying where the focus is going to be. Lived without it with the 6D and was fine but when I discovered it on the 1D4, it was ooh is this ever nice, especially with expansion mode. 

Jack


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## arbitrage (Mar 21, 2017)

I was a defender of the 5D3/1DX etc system especially with f/2.8 and narrower lenses outdoors. But using the 1DX2 I love the red points. Still I shoot the 5D4 and 1DX2 back to back and don't really notice until I switch back to the 1DX2 and think "oh yeah that is nicer". But it didn't stop me from buying the 5D4 and it doesn't stop me from using the 5D4 or my 1DX for that matter.

The one thing I don't do with the 1DX2 which I sometimes do with the 5D4 system is leave all 61 points showing in the VF, I find all the 61 red points showing is a little to distracting, showing all 61 black points is okay for me.


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## Jopa (Mar 22, 2017)

In a bright light I never see those red dots. Really like the 5dsr because it has black ones. I think it would be nice if Canon offers a switch between two (like a day / night mode).


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## Jaysheldon (Mar 22, 2017)

Jack Douglas wrote:

"Always. It's like having a pointer identifying where the focus is going to be. Lived without it with the 6D and was fine but when I discovered it on the 1D4, it was ooh is this ever nice, especially with expansion mode."

Jack, Not sure I understand your reference to the 6D. You can make the points light up/off with Custom Function II-8.

As for me, not having points light up would be a deal breaker on my next camera, which, ideally, will be the 6D Mk II.


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## Jack Douglas (Mar 22, 2017)

Jaysheldon said:


> Jack Douglas wrote:
> 
> "Always. It's like having a pointer identifying where the focus is going to be. Lived without it with the 6D and was fine but when I discovered it on the 1D4, it was ooh is this ever nice, especially with expansion mode."
> 
> ...



Unless my 6D malfunctions, all that gives me is a flash of red when my back button focus is achieved which is not much help when you're pointing but haven't yet focused. I tried reactivating shutter focus and it changed nothing. 

With the 1DX2 the active AF point is constantly lit red when you activate metering and if you prefer you can have all of them lit all the time, which tends to be a little distracting relative to your subject. With full auto you can see which focus points it's shifting to constantly in front of your eyes, same with expansion mode. Check one out and you'll be impressed.

I'd say it's next to certain the 6D2 won't have this feature likely due to it's adding extra complexity. Never the less, I'm still interested in possibly getting one if it has better AF and F8 focus. I have really enjoyed the 6D.

Jack


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## Jaysheldon (Mar 22, 2017)

Jack. I understand now. It would be an advantage to always have the selected square lit.


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