# Shooting an event soon -- could use some advice



## ahsanford (Sep 3, 2014)

Hey gang, 

I wasn't sure where to put this, sorry.

I am volunteering at a kids event this weekend and when they heard I was a photographer (full disclosure: natural light enthusiast only), they asked me to bring my rig and shoot the event. I only have sketchy details, but here's what I know:


It will be a mixture of indoor and outdoor shooting. Outdoors will be violently bright and indoors will be cavelike darkness (it's actually an aquarium).
There will be thousands of people there over the course of the event, so it will be some form of organized chaos in a walkaround 'capture what I can' sort of scenario.
The event will last 4-6 hours and I need to carry all my gear over that time -- no 100% safe bases of operations are available, and my car will be too far away.

So here's what I was planning on bringing:


5D3
600EX-RT with a Sto-Fen Omni Bounce
16-35 F/4L IS
24-70 F/4L IS
70-200 F/2.8L IS II
Filters: CPL for outdoor shooting and UV for indoor shooting and handsy kid fingerprint insurance . The CPL might also be useful to shoot the exhibits through the glass if need be.
I may also bring some rain covers in case they need me to shoot near an open water habitat -- I'm waiting to hear back on that.

Questions:

1) Did I miss anything obvious? (Note that I lack any (even basic) off-camera lighting tools like a bracket or ETTL cable. So I'm hotshoe-ing the 600EX-RT or bust.)

2) I need to be able to carry everything around with me, so I don't want to go too heavy. The 70-200 is heavy and likely will be overkill given how many people will be packed into this place. Should I leave it out altogether to save weight, or would you bring it?

3) Should I even bother with a gray card to back out the interior lighting? I think I'll be moving around to so many different spots that I won't have the time to use it.

Any advice is appreciated.

- A


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## AcutancePhotography (Sep 3, 2014)

I think you are bringing too much gear. I was roped into  uh directed by management  volunteered to photographing a kid's event at our company. There was simply no time for changing filters or even lenses.

Preset, or have written down the settings you will need when switching from bright outside to dimmer indoor. You don't want to be trying to figure this out during the event. 

Try to learn as much as you can about the schedule of events so you can plan your schedule. You won't be able to photograph everything, so don't even try. 

Wear comfortable clothing that allows you to bend/squat as you will be doing that a lot with the kids

Good luck with it. My experience was a completly new experience and well outside my comfort zone. It was pretty exciting and to be honest stressful at times. 

Since you will be using on camera flash, a good modifier/bounce will be good. Besure to practice with it, if you are not too experienced with using on camera flash in this environment. You don't want to be trying to figure out stuff at the event.

Lastly, what arrangements/agreements do you have with the event owners concerning use of your photographs?

Get it in writing. Even if you are not getting paid, you still want to have a complete understanding on everyone's understanding concerning the photographs.


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## Dylan777 (Sep 3, 2014)

Having 2 bodies for event is huge plus.

All I can think of 2 bodies with 24-70 and 70-200. Maybe 1.4x tc attachs to 70-200 for extra reach when you out door. 

Best wishes and be safe


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## Don Haines (Sep 3, 2014)

bring a friend...

That many people in a big area..... no way can you do it justice alone....


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## ahsanford (Sep 3, 2014)

AcutancePhotography said:


> I think you...



Awesome tips.

1) The Sto-Fen bounce has been fine in my limited use of it, but the ceilings are of wildly different heights inside the Aquarium. So a straight vertical bounce may be a mess to dial-in. So I may just go with Sto-Fen's suggested 45 degree upward tilt and call it good. And outdoors in bright light, I may pull it off entirely as I'll need to squeeze all the power out of the flash for HSS use.

2) I've been told that these will be for aquarium promotional use and used by the educational groups that set up this event. This is not for profit whatsoever, so I'm inclined to just hand the photos over sans paperwork. There really aren't any evil forces at play here. I _have_ asked them for specifically how I am to handle concerned parents asking me who I am and where those pictures are going. That's on the event hosts and if they don't give me a canned statement / printout / card to give parents, this shoot isn't happening. That's drama I do not need.

- A


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## ahsanford (Sep 3, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> Having 2 bodies for event is huge plus.
> 
> All I can think of 2 bodies with 24-70 and 70-200. Maybe 1.4x tc attachs to 70-200 for extra reach when you out door.
> 
> Best wishes and be safe



Thanks! 

I have an old T1i. I could leave the 16-35 on the FF rig and put the 24-70 on the T1i for an equivalent 38-112. But I don't have two flashes (the T1i pop-up is wretched) and the T1i would be 100% relegated to outdoor work.

Knowing all that it, should I bring it or leave it? 

- A


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## Besisika (Sep 3, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> Having 2 bodies for event is huge plus.
> 
> All I can think of 2 bodies with 24-70 and 70-200. Maybe 1.4x tc attachs to 70-200 for extra reach when you out door.
> 
> Best wishes and be safe


Agreed!
As far as cavelike darkness concerned, bounce the flash off ceiling if not colored, grey is ok, ETTL and dial flash exposure comp when needed.


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## Dylan777 (Sep 3, 2014)

ahsanford said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > Having 2 bodies for event is huge plus.
> ...


Since this is unpaid gig...I would bring it for outdoor. I shoot with 2470 and 70200mm a lot. If I'm you, I'll put 70200 on crop for outdoor. Although I do not own t1i...I'm assuming the iq shouldn't be a problem for outdoor. Especially with 70200.


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## ahsanford (Sep 3, 2014)

Besisika said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > Having 2 bodies for event is huge plus.
> ...



Crap -- great call. This aquarium's walls are dark blue inside if memory serves. I'll try to get there early and take some shots in each area with a gray card.

- A


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## fragilesi (Sep 3, 2014)

Just a thought, have you checked that the aquarium will allow you to use flash?


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## agierke (Sep 3, 2014)

Does the aquarium charge patrons to see their exhibit? Is the event free to the public or do they have registration fees? If the aquarium and presumably the event coordinators will be using the images to promote themselves then how does that constitute "not for profit"?

You are right to be concerned about photographing children without consent...it may go fine, but if i was a parent of a child attending this event and you photographed my kid with the intent the images would be used for promotion i would raise holy hell!

Why do "photographers" allow themselves to be put in these positions? It boggles my mind. This sounds to me like a serious job with many risks and technical challenges...if it isn't, then bring 1 body 1 lens, snap a few pics and be done with it. If it is serious and they will be benifitting from your images then why are you doing it for free???? (Not to mention at considerable risk to your expensive gear).

Sounds to me like you just got suckered into working for free. Sry if you think this sounds harsh....


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## ahsanford (Sep 3, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Dylan777 said:
> ...



It's absolutely fine in daylight. And it's small to pack. I'll bring it.

- A


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## ahsanford (Sep 3, 2014)

agierke said:


> Sounds to me like you just got suckered into working for free. Sry if you think this sounds harsh....



Not harsh at all, but I really don't mind giving my services away in this capacity -- I was volunteering my time already. 

But I will not risk my gear and I won't abide by an angry parent without the event host having an iron-clad 'here's what we'll use these pictures for' statement in my hand. I shot a friend's daughter's soccer game and a number of parents gave me the stink-eye. Though none of them confronted me, it was clear they were very uncomfortable with anyone other than a parent taking pictures.

- A


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## Arthur_Nunes (Sep 3, 2014)

ahsanford,

be aware of using CPL with people dude...

it also removes reflections on people's eyes and you end up with dead fish looking eyes.

would be very usefull recreating some sort of zombie costume shot


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## ahsanford (Sep 3, 2014)

Arthur_Nunes said:


> ahsanford,
> 
> be aware of using CPL with people dude...
> 
> ...



Agreed. I also hate how CPLs make the shadows on faces much harsher. I'd only use a CPL in a shot with people in it if I had a glaring sky/reflection in the background that I couldn't frame out. But knowing how much is going on indoors at this event, I'll probably be shooting with the UV on all day.

- A


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## mackguyver (Sep 3, 2014)

All good advice, especially having 2 bodies, but I fear f/4 won't be enough indoors, at least without flash. Even f/2.8 is nearly useless indoors if there's low light. I'm assuming you don't have any fast primes, so be sure to bring several sets of spare batteries for the flash (at least 3-4, but maybe more). You'll burn through them in no time (especially with the Stofen) and don't want to be without them. Be sure to set your flash sync to "1/60-1/200s" or you'll get nothing but blurry shots in Av mode as it will expose for the ambient. Switch to P mode (no shame in doing so) if you get rushed and shots are looking blurry. Also, try to use ISO 400 or 800 with the flash to extend battery life and get better coverage of the ambient. Take multiple photos (at least 3) for group shots. Someone ALWAYS has their eyes closed or is looking at another camera.

Leave the 70-200 F/2.8L IS II in the car. It will still be close enough for you or someone else to retrieve if you really need it, but I doubt you'll use it and it's a bear to carry all day. The only exception is if you'll be doing any kind of head shots or individual portraits. 

And YES, definitely take a gray card or white card. You'll have awful mixed lighting and will have a tough time with white balance if you don't have at least a handful of reference shots with the cards in them. Better yet, set a custom WB, but you may not have time to do that, and if you forget to switch it back, it'll tick you off badly.

Also, and trust me on this one, make sure both of your camera clocks are synchronized. Use EOS Utility and sync to the computer time, ideally. I have made that mistake before and unless you have PhotoMechanic or other tools, it's a major PITA to fix.

Finally, wear comfortable shoes and bring a comfortable backpack, bag, or vest, if you have one. Nothing says I'm a pro like a vest, too  Good luck and have fun!


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## ahsanford (Sep 3, 2014)

mackguyver said:


> All good advice, especially having 2 bodies, but I fear f/4 won't be enough indoors, at least without flash. Even f/2.8 is nearly useless indoors if there's low light. I'm assuming you don't have any fast primes, so be sure to bring several sets of spare batteries for the flash (at least 3-4, but maybe more). You'll burn through them in no time (especially with the Stofen) and don't want to be without them. Be sure to set your flash sync to "1/60-1/200s" or you'll get nothing but blurry shots in Av mode as it will expose for the ambient. Switch to P mode (no shame in doing so) if you get rushed and shots are looking blurry. Also, try to use ISO 400 or 800 with the flash to extend battery life and get better coverage of the ambient. Take multiple photos (at least 3) for group shots. Someone ALWAYS has their eyes closed or is looking at another camera.
> 
> Leave the 70-200 F/2.8L IS II in the car. It will still be close enough for you or someone else to retrieve if you really need it, but I doubt you'll use it and it's a bear to carry all day. The only exception is if you'll be doing any kind of head shots or individual portraits.
> 
> ...



Excellent guidance, thank you. I have amassed phone and SLR shots from vacations only to find a time shift that is a huge PITA to manage after the fact.

- A


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## mackguyver (Sep 3, 2014)

ahsanford said:


> Excellent guidance, thank you. I have amassed phone and SLR shots from vacations only to find a time shift that is a huge PITA to manage after the fact.
> 
> - A


I'm happy to share some of the more painful things I've learned and the timeshift is especially maddening. In my case, it was three cameras (I borrowed one from a friend and tripped it remotely) and an event on stage with numerous people where I had to get everything in sequence. One camera was set to daylight savings, and the others were several minutes apart. I didn't have any tools to fix it and the free tool I ended up using only adjusted the hour, not the minutes. That was also where I figured out that flashes overheat pretty fast if you use them a lot. There's a reason why pros use battery packs, which is something you might consider. I use the _Pixel TD-381 Battery Power Pack for for Canon_ which is much cheaper than the Canon pack at around $40 US.


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## agierke (Sep 3, 2014)

> There's a reason why pros use battery packs, which is something you might consider



Battery packs can actually contribute more to flashes overheating as they dont limit recycle rate as much as AAs. That's why I DONT use battery packs and instead use highly rated rechargeables. I had a quantum turbo SC completely fry two 580ex flashes before I made the switch. Haven't had a problem since.


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## mackguyver (Sep 3, 2014)

agierke said:


> > There's a reason why pros use battery packs, which is something you might consider
> 
> 
> 
> Battery packs can actually contribute more to flashes overheating as they dont limit recycle rate as much as AAs. That's why I DONT use battery packs and instead use highly rated rechargeables. I had a quantum turbo SC completely fry two 580ex flashes before I made the switch. Haven't had a problem since.


Ouch - thanks for letting me know. I'm more of a f/1.2-f/2 shooter, but sometimes use flash. The battery pack has worked well for me, but I don't go too crazy with the flash. I could see how easy it would be to overdo it, though.

ahsanford, since you'll be using lots of flash, scratch my advice on battery packs...


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## distant.star (Sep 3, 2014)

.
A few thoughts. Advice, for what it's worth...


1. Calm down. This is just taking some pictures the organization may or may not use. No lives depend on this. You, and this thread in general, sound like a teenage girl going on a first date!

2. Spend the first 30 minutes to an hour simply looking. Walk around, look, visualize possible images and THINK how to best make them happen. The day is long. (But don't lose good light if you have it.)

3. Limit the number of shots you take -- I'd say don't take more than 200 all day. If they are well thought out and well executed, you'll save yourself a lot of time in post process. You do not have to shoot pictures of everyone there or of everything that happens. They seemed to have asked for a representational sample that will show what the event looked like. No one will look at more than a couple dozen pictures of the event, no matter how invested or interested. I wouldn't give them more than 50 finished pictures, at most.

4. Review expectations with the person who has asked for these pictures. Tell them exactly what you plan to do and ask for confirmation that it will meet their expectations. Then repeat this process again. (One thing John McPhee taught me about interviewing people was that you keep asking the same question until you keep getting the same answer over and over again.) If there is something specific on the day's agenda they want pictures of, make sure you know when it's happening, where, who's who (and important), etc. The pictures they want don't happen by magic -- they happen by people telling you exactly what pictures they want.

5. Enjoy yourself. Stop shooting for a few minutes every now and again and just be part of what's happening. Watch how the kids are having fun and take pleasure in that.

6. No one has yet mentioned a monopod -- might be very useful for indoor shots, and they're easy to carry.

7. Do the usual event coverage stuff -- look for places where you can get high (balconies, overlooks, stairs, etc.). Make sure you know where the light is coming from outside and maneuver shots accordingly. Find one place where a specific lens will get a unique shot (wide angle, for instance). Look for the unusual shot no one has ever taken at this place. You may want to use the monopod as a pole to get a bit of pole-camera aspect.

8. Don't be afraid to set shots up; this isn't journalism. You can put people where you want them around areas of interest, then coax them to act natural and interact if possible. Find the photogenic people who like being in front of the camera.

Again, enjoy yourself. Relax. They didn't expect to have a photographer to begin with!


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## ahsanford (Sep 3, 2014)

distant.star said:


> .
> A few thoughts. Advice, for what it's worth...
> 
> ...
> ...



I continue to be amazed at the thoughtfulness folks put into their posts. That is stellar guidance. Deeply appreciated.

- A


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## IgotGASbadDude (Sep 3, 2014)

distant.star said:


> .You, and this thread in general, sound like a teenage girl going on a first date!



Comment of the year! ;D ;D ;D

But Mr. Distant Star I have one question. "What if he thinks my braces are ugly?" OMG I'd just diiiiiieeeeeee!


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## Dylan777 (Sep 3, 2014)

distant.star said:


> .
> 
> 3. Limit the number of shots you take -- I'd say don't take more than 200 all day. If they are well thought out and well executed, you'll save yourself a lot of time in post process. You do not have to shoot pictures of everyone there or of everything that happens. They seemed to have asked for a representational sample that will show what the event looked like. No one will look at more than a couple dozen pictures of the event, no matter how invested or interested. I wouldn't give them more than 50 finished pictures, at most.



I tend to shoot more and be selective before PP.


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## JonAustin (Sep 4, 2014)

mackguyver said:


> agierke said:
> 
> 
> > > There's a reason why pros use battery packs, which is something you might consider
> ...



I've never used a battery pack, but I've done day-long portrait sessions with lots of flash use. I could be wrong (and I frequently am), but I thought that speedlites have internal circuitry to extend the interval between firing and ready status when they get too hot, regardless of the power source.

Now, if the battery pack is defective and serves up, i.e., too high a voltage, that's another story.


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## ahsanford (Sep 4, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> distant.star said:
> 
> 
> > .
> ...



This is to one's taste, but I agree with Dylan. I shoot JPG+RAW, I shoot more than I need, I use the JPGs to rate shots and only PP the keepers in RAW. Speed on the front end and power on the back end -- that combination has served me well.

I agree with distant.star's take on limiting the number of finished pictures. Hell, I'm doing this for free! 

- A


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 4, 2014)

I'd take my 5D MK III and 24-70L along with the flash. If I had a assistant to hold the flash, I'd also take my tiny 90ex to use as a master / fill, and have the assistant hold the big flash.

I might keep a backup camera in my car, but since its not a critical assignment, lugging two bodies around seems like overkill. For a wedding, yes - two bodies, one run by a assistant.


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## FTb-n (Sep 4, 2014)

I shoot a lot of school events and all I carry are two 5D3 bodies, one with a 24-70 f2.8L II, the other with the 70-200 f2.8L II. (Not long ago, I used the 24-105 f4L before getting the 24-70.) 

For what it's worth, the 70-200 gets the most use. It all depends upon how you shoot. I like to stay in the background and get candids of individuals. The 70-200 is great for this.

Things are going to happen quickly. Don't expect to be able to change lenses a lot. For me the two bodies are key to keeping it simple. I find that it's best to limit the lenses that you carry -- it limits the temptation to spend more time switching lenses than shooting.

As for flash, I'll admit that there are some venues that may be well suited for bouncing the flash off the ceiling or a back wall. This is something that I should explore more, but I prefer available light shooting.

I do carry grey cleaning cloth and recently got a business sized grey WB card to carry at all times. It's a good idea if you have the time to grab a shot with a WB grey card in view -- not simply an exposure grey card, but one balanced for color. Make sure you shoot RAW. When I don't have the grey card available, I can often color balance in Lightroom using the whites of the eyes of a subject.

On occasion, I will use custom WB with the camera. But, remember to go back to AWB when the light changes.

My advice is to bring the 5D3 with the 24-70 f4 and the 70-200 f2.8 -- and that's it. You have to decide if the venue will be suitable for the 70-200 -- will you have room to roam a bit or will you always be close to the group?


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## ahsanford (Sep 4, 2014)

FTb-n said:


> My advice is to bring the 5D3 with the 24-70 f4 and the 70-200 f2.8 -- and that's it. You have to decide if the venue will be suitable for the 70-200 -- will you have room to roam a bit or will you always be close to the group?



I don't have a schedule of activities yet, but I presume it will be a balance of some scripted/scheduled activities and some meander-y walkabout time.

- A


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## agierke (Sep 4, 2014)

> I've never used a battery pack, but I've done day-long portrait sessions with lots of flash use. I could be wrong (and I frequently am), but I thought that speedlites have internal circuitry to extend the interval between firing and ready status when they get too hot, regardless of the power source.
> 
> Now, if the battery pack is defective and serves up, i.e., too high a voltage, that's another story.



sry for the side thread piggy backing this thread...but i feel this is important. yes, modern flashes have safety measures to prevent damage from overheating with each generation seeming to get better at it. and yes, the problem with a battery pack is that it can send a much higher surge to the flash resulting in an overload.

the first flash i had fried was the 580EX v1. i'm not sure if it had safety measures to prevent damage from overheating (i dont recall and if it did i very well may have ignored it). the second flash that got fried was the 580EX v2, and it died twice...once on the battery pack and then again (after repair!!!) on rechargables. at that point i did some research and i recall reading that the 580EX2 had a faulty design in the head that didn't allow it to vent properly and ultimately caused the flash tube to arc...thus frying the head.

anyways...after 3 meltdowns on 2 heads i decided to be more careful about how i powered and used my flashes. sold the quantum and picked up some powerex AAs. no issues since and i only rarely run across instances where those batteries cant keep up recycle rate.

now i run with 600EX-RTs and they do have a clear warning system that the flash is overheating. love those things.


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## pwp (Sep 5, 2014)

Good solid advice from Distant Star. He's probably got a nicely evolved events workflow. There is a lot of great advice on this thread, much of which illustrates the diversity of how photographers approach events work.

I'd shoot a couple of events a week. FWIW here's a little on how I go about it.

The Brief: Get very clear communication from the client on what they want, how they're going to use it and when they need delivery of the job. I learned a long time ago not to accept a brief along the lines of..."_well you're the expert, just do what you think is best..._" only to get feedback after the job is delivered..."_well this actually isn't what we were wanting..."_ Grrrrr. Insist on a written brief.

Cameras & Lenses: Always two bodies with Peak Design sling straps, 24-70 f/2.8II on one and 70-200 f/2.8isII on the other. Sometimes a third body with good high iso capability with a 24 f/1.4II. Typically the 24-70 gets used for posed shots, the 70-200 for candids. Two extra lenses that I'd keep nearby are a 16-35 just in case 24 isn't enough, and a 300 f/2.8is for some awesome candids, or required shots of speakers/presenters from a respectable distance.

Lighting: Speedlight 600ex-rt on each camera, plus additional lights depending on the job eg: a couple more off-camera 600ex-rt or Einsteins. With the on-camera flash, use bounce whenever possible, or if the room has high black ceilings, a diffuser such as a Gary Fong is great. I use Flash Diffuser Pro from Joe Demb http://www.dembflashproducts.com/ As we all know, straight flash looks pretty bad in most cases and should be used only as a last resort or for a particular look. For daylight fill, straight flash can look fine. Also, you can often make good extra money setting up a simple studio and asking the MC to make an appropriate announcement for you. People love it. 

Batteries: I've had old 550 EZ speedlights explode when working them hard when powered by a Quantum Turbo. I had one go BANG two days after 9-11. Everyone hit the floor. Client was not impressed. Put in perspective, back in that time I was shooting 100 iso film and needed a ton of light, thus working the speedlights a LOT harder. Now my default iso at most events is 800 and on the 5D3 I have no qualms bumping up to 1600 and occasionally 3200 if that's what's needed to get the shot. Bounce flash at 1600 iso gives a great look, done well it looks like available light. I wouldn't walk out of the studio door without a fully charged Quantum T3 battery (with the twin outlets). Remote 600ex-rt are powered by the incredible value Godox Propac PB960 http://www.amazon.com/Godox-Propac-Battery-Output-Camera/dp/B00D06LUAA (btw they come in black...) 

Shooting: I tend to shoot heavily, frequently coming back from an event with 1500-2000 shots. Shooting a lot of candids, there is a high loss rate, but with a ruthless edit you really get those great moments that make the client swoon. In another life as a photo-editor for a metropolitan Sunday newspaper I learned to edit fast. If it's a _maybe,_ then it shouldn't make the cut. Another reason to shoot heavily can be to give an event a bit more sizzle. If you're doing your job well, communicating confidently and genuinely having fun, you're part of the entertainment. People respond to light energies, affinity, respect, humor and a bit of good natured nonsense. Like life, it's supposed to be enjoyable!

Invoicing: Be very careful about doing freebies or heavily discounted events. Better to be reassuringly expensive.

-pw


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## wickidwombat (Sep 5, 2014)

general rules for dialling in Flash exposure compensation in ETTL

if the background is brighter than the subject dial in + EC the amount depends on how much brighter the background is so you need a bit of trial and error start at +1 and work from that.
this is out doors bright sun etc

if the background is darker than the subject dial in - EC same as about the amount depends on how much darker the back ground is again start at -1
this is indoors in shade at night etc

don't leave the flash just in ETTL it will rarely balance correctly you need to practice balancing the ambient exposure with the flash exposure.

another general rule is expose for the background and use the flash EC to correct the exposure of the subject

hope that helps a bit


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## eninja (Sep 5, 2014)

If I were shooting an event for the first time. I would focus on the event more, anticipate and prepare for the shot. And be quick. I need my photographer instinct to be intact.

These advise goes for me also, coz tomorrow will be my first paid event. Only for 2 hours 10-12:00 local time, im not sure about the location but I assume its semi-outdoor and bright.

The problem is.. I GOT NO Zoom LENS. 
These are what I got: 6D, 700D, 85mm 1.8 and 35mm f2 IS. 430ex ii with Graslon Dome Diffuser.
I was going to rent 24-70 F4L but it was not available. I was stupid to rent 16-35 F2.8 instead.

I tried using 16-35 on both 6D and 700D. There's no wow effect on the 6D. with 700D worst, I find it not sharp, AFMA error maybe.

So I decided for sure, to use my own trusted perfect matched 6D + 35mm and 700D with 85mm. Which always output nice photos.

As I've said. I need my photographer instinct to be intact. There's nothing more secure feeling than knowing and trusting on your gear. That's why I chose my prime for this event (16-35 will be useless, unless i cant step 5 steps back), in return I need to focus and anticipate more.


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## ahsanford (Sep 5, 2014)

wickidwombat said:


> general rules for dialling in Flash exposure compensation in ETTL
> 
> if the background is brighter than the subject dial in + EC the amount depends on how much brighter the background is so you need a bit of trial and error start at +1 and work from that.
> this is out doors bright sun etc
> ...



It does, but I have a jillion flash questions. 

Without a flash, I am predominantly an aperture priority guy. With a flash, I keep hearing two schools of thought on flash settings when you don't have time to dial everything in:


Rookie mode: Stick with whatever mode you usually use without a flash, use your knowledge of that mode to nail the ambient and heavily rely on tweaking FEC as you go.


Let's get braver mode: Switch to M, guess/practice at average starting settings (before the shoot), say ISO 200, F/6.3, Shutter 1/80s, and then tweak as needed throughout the event, using the rule that shutter affects ambient exposure and aperture affects flash exposure. If either aperture or shutter are getting forced into values you that are problematic (shutter too slow to hold, shutter too fast for sync, or an aperture that is composition unfriendly to keep shutter where you want it, etc.), tweak your ISO to bring you back into settings that give you elbow room either way for flash and ambient exposure.


Jedi Event Master Flash mode: Bend the spoon with your mind. Just instinctively know what to do.

The concern with events is uneven lighting, which makes locking in 'you're good, just shoot' settings next to impossible. Can someone give me a simple algorithm for managing this?

Also, I understand the hit to power by using HSS, but sometimes you _have_ to use it, right?

- A


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## wickidwombat (Sep 5, 2014)

ahsanford said:


> wickidwombat said:
> 
> 
> > general rules for dialling in Flash exposure compensation in ETTL
> ...


The above works just fine in aperture priority so stick to that if its your thing the flash ec is seperate anyway
Just go with the +1light back ground -1 dark back ground if its off bit its not a huge deal and you will get a feel for it soon enough


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## RustyTheGeek (Sep 5, 2014)

I shoot enough events that I feel like I can offer some decent advice. All the advice given is good and solid... and my head is spinning after reading it.

My BEST ADVICE -> K.I.S.S. Principle <- My BEST ADVICE (Read *distant.star*'s advice again. Relax and enjoy!) 

I don't care how much you shoot, how many events or whatever, every photographer who gives a hoot will over think these things because they want to do a great job.

There are many ways that this can be done with many cameras and lens scenarios. In general, you have good equipment and a LOT can be fixed in Post so don't kill yourself. Take your time, relax and try different things. Watch your LCD as you shoot and adapt as you go. Don't take too much stuff. And ditch the CPL.

So here's _MY_ two scenarios... :

Simple - Take the 5D3, 24-70 and Flash. Shoot RAW. Set your WB to daylight and leave it there or use the gray card and set it custom but once it's set, don't change it. Corrections in Post will be much easier starting from the same place every image. Set ISO 3200 indoors and 400 outdoors. Create custom camera settings for indoor and outdoor to save time. Set for Av Priority f/4 (lowest you can go) with Flash ETTL AUTO indoors. Outdoors, depending on light levels, shade, etc you might need to go with center point metering. I wouldn't worry about HSS, you won't have time. It would probably be better to use a smaller aperture anyway to help control all the background light and have more of the scene in focus. Point flash with Sto-Fen up 45 degrees indoors, 90 degrees forward outdoors and dial in EC on the fly like *wickedwombat* suggests. (This is pretty much what I do most of the time.) I wouldn't take the 70-200 unless you are planning to get a lot of face only shots, or maybe just noses and eyes. Heck, I would have my 16-35 L lens hanging on my belt because I would find it much more useful indoors where I'm cramped and trying to get the event in the frame. And you might shoot a bit with no flash so the aquarium will be pretty, or with the flash dialed back quite a bit so as not to overpower or reflect heavily off the glass.

Another indoor flash idea, gel the flash to match the aquarium light color. Some kind of blue or green perhaps?

More Work and Versatility - Take the T2i with the 24-70 for reach and put the 16-35 on the 5D3. Put the flash on the T2i. Use the 5D3 wide with available light indoors and out for group, event, story shots, etc. Use the T2i for candids, etc and light the faces better with the flash.

Another lens I would take for some fun shots would be... drum roll... the EF 15mm f/2.8 FishEye! Inside with the aquarium, letting the kids get really close and capturing them near the tanks, no flash. I think that would be really neat! Also, held up high it would give some great story shots.

Seriously, relax and enjoy this. To reduce the worry, go to the venue early and experiment for an hour or two. Make sure it's about the same time of day!

Keep us posted on how this goes and what you ended doing. Sharing a few pictures would be nice too!


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## AcutancePhotography (Sep 5, 2014)

pwp said:


> Cameras & Lenses: Always two bodies.... .... Speedlight 600ex-rt on each camera



Two cameras with speedlights attached hanging from straps, in a crowd of kids/parents?

That sounds like a good way to get equipment busted. One bad bump and one of those speedlights can snap off. I think that is a bit over-kill for this type of shoot. Especially for someone doing this type of shoot for the first time.


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## ahsanford (Sep 5, 2014)

Awesome feedback everyone. Please understand I'm not frantic at all about this event -- That's just how I ask questions and learn. I'm a 'hyper-questioner' who nibbles at a bigger question with many little ones. Your feedback is stellar. (I'm actually quite calm about the event, believe it or not.)

Individual responses:

Rusty -- yes, getting close to the kids in interactive moments with games/displays on the 16mm end seemed a natural choice. 16mm is as wide as I go, so that will have to do. 100% agreement on the sto-fen indoor/outdoor positions. I'm still on the fence with two cameras as the T1i will be fairly useless for ambient light indoors (even ISO 1600 is a challenge on that rig). I'm leaning towards just the 5D3 with the 24-70 and the 16-35 as option #2 as needed. 

Wickidwombat -- I presume your +/- rule on bright/dark backgrounds for FEC is tied to Evaluative Metering? I assume that switching to Spot Metering would limit how often I need to compensate, right? (Side question -- at events, for those that use Av or Tv, what metering modes do you use?)

Many folks who recommended the 70-200 -- I love the isolation that lens gives me, and I appreciate the value it has for candids, but I'm not sure I'll have the room to use it in the venue (which, other than a long and narrow atrium, is quite cramped). I feel like the 16-35 will get much more use, and not bringing the 70-200 will do my back a favor over the course of the day.

- A


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## mackguyver (Sep 5, 2014)

AcutancePhotography said:


> pwp said:
> 
> 
> > Cameras & Lenses: Always two bodies.... .... Speedlight 600ex-rt on each camera
> ...


Agreed - I'd keep one on the 5DIII and the other in a bag/pocket as a spare or for off-camera shots. Two mounted flashes are too easy to bump into each other, crowd or not.


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## ahsanford (Sep 5, 2014)

mackguyver said:


> AcutancePhotography said:
> 
> 
> > pwp said:
> ...



I don't even _own_ two speedlites. _#naturallightshooter_

- A


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## RustyTheGeek (Sep 5, 2014)

Great to hear *ahsanford*! I'm glad you are considering options while staying relaxed. Go look at my site and you'll see that I end up shooting a LOT of kids. (Boys scouts, school stuff, etc.) And I'm often in cramped quarters and strange light so my 16-35 gets a lot of use and every once in a while I bring out the Fish-Eye when I think about it.

Also, FYI, I use the heck out of my *SunPak RD2000* with a Sto-Fen diffuser. It stays on my camera and I use it 90% of the time. I have 3 of them and one is gelled with diffuser, one is plain with diffuser and one is plain without diffuser (mostly for outdoor sun). It works great on the 5D3 & 70D but the ETTL doesn't work on the 6D. http://www.amazon.com/SUNPAK-RD2000C-Sunpak-Camera-Flash/dp/B001GS6Q9Y/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1409941442&sr=8-1&keywords=rd2000 (See my review by *RL*)

http://rustythegeek.zenfolio.com/nasa2012#h6cdc731 (Inside the Mission Control simulators, etc with FishEye)
http://rustythegeek.zenfolio.com/galveston2012 (Inside the ship with FishEye)
http://rustythegeek.zenfolio.com/alliance-hires#h3e272ad2 (Inside the Control Tower with FishEye)

Just remember - get insurance shots from time to time and then have fun the rest of the time. Experiment. Go outside your comfort zone. You only need one really cool edgy shot to work and that might even be after a lot of tweaking in post!

Use this event as an excuse to buy (or rent) the 15mm Fish-Eye! You'll have a BLAST with it!


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## RustyTheGeek (Sep 5, 2014)

Another approach indoors where it's dark might be to use Tv and let your images go a bit dark if necc to preserve focus. (Then bump back up in post.) Dial in Tv of 1/30 - 1/50 or so depending on your skill level in low light and your ability to hold the camera still. (Obviously you will need to shoot multiple shots to try and get a keeper.) With your lens having a f/4 limit, your camera will be struggling to get the exposure and might be dipping pretty low on shutter speed in Av mode. You might even have to (shudder!) go to 6400! 

Regardless, focus can't be fixed. Everything else can be improved a certain amount. Shooting in the dark is always a challenge. Which is why I still use my 28 f/1.8 prime quite a bit for campfire shots, etc. In your case, maybe that 40mm f/2.8 pancake will suffice. (Didn't I see that in your list?)


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## RustyTheGeek (Sep 5, 2014)

Something else to consider that is NON-Photography related.

*NO ONE-ON-ONE WITH KIDS.* In other words, never be alone with a kid. Always have another adult(s) or a group of other kids around you or within eye-sight.

This is a core standard YPT (Youth Protection Training) rule that protects both the adult and the child.

It would be a good idea to watch this YPT training video. It explains good standard practices no matter where you are. School, church, scouts, public places, etc.
http://www.scouting.org/Training/youthprotection.aspx


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## sagittariansrock (Sep 5, 2014)

ahsanford said:


> Hey gang,
> 
> I wasn't sure where to put this, sorry.
> 
> ...



FYI, this is the primary reason I got the 135L. If I need a longer lens (and in situations like this I do), and the 70-200 is a bit much to carry, the 135L is the perfect substitute if not better in certain situations.
A grey card is a good idea. I found it tedious at first, but then it becomes a habit. A single shot at the card every time light, or location changes. Saves you a lot of PP work.
An aquarium works only with bare-bulb type flash IMO, which is perfect for your Stofen setup.


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## sagittariansrock (Sep 5, 2014)

ahsanford said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > distant.star said:
> ...



I feel taking too many shots affects my composition and overall quality. I get fewer keepers when shooting more, than when I think twice before taking a shot. 
I am sure it depends on the person involved.


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## ahsanford (Sep 5, 2014)

RustyTheGeek said:


> Which is why I still use my 28 f/1.8 prime quite a bit for campfire shots, etc. In your case, maybe that 40mm f/2.8 pancake will suffice. (Didn't I see that in your list?)



I have some quicker primes, like a 50/1.4 and the 100L macro, but I'm leery to sign up for a fixed FL in such a dynamic environment. 

- A


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## ahsanford (Sep 5, 2014)

sagittariansrock said:


> FYI, this is the primary reason I got the 135L. If I need a longer lens (and in situations like this I do), and the 70-200 is a bit much to carry, the 135L is the perfect substitute if not better in certain situations.



Yeah, I have the 100L instead for similar reasons (also for macro). It's a great substitute for portraiture. 

But again, I'm a little leery to slap in a prime and miss something happening, esp. in a crowded place where the old prime lens 'move your feet' axiom becomes harder to pull off.

- A


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## RustyTheGeek (Sep 6, 2014)

ahsanford said:


> RustyTheGeek said:
> 
> 
> > Which is why I still use my 28 f/1.8 prime quite a bit for campfire shots, etc. In your case, maybe that 40mm f/2.8 pancake will suffice. (Didn't I see that in your list?)
> ...



I understand your point. I totally agree. Keep in mind however that a wider prime like my fast 28mm will capture a lot and I can always crop a bit. (Plus, I can human zoom IN. It's harder to human zoom OUT esp in tight spaces.)


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## RustyTheGeek (Sep 6, 2014)

sagittariansrock said:


> I feel taking too many shots affects my composition and overall quality. I get fewer keepers when shooting more, than when I think twice before taking a shot.
> I am sure it depends on the person involved.



I would tend to agree but only to a point. I shoot more than some, less than others. My bigger concern, esp with flash, is the distraction I cause the event itself with flash or shutter noise. But when I restrict myself too much, I find I miss good shots. It's a balancing act for sure!


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## RustyTheGeek (Sep 6, 2014)

Hmm. I used to work harder with using a gray card and/or other device to peg a custom WB at the venue. Hmm. Maybe I'll start doing that again. It's not that hard, I just got out of the habit. (You know, LAZY!)

The gray card doesn't solve everything though. If you introduce flash or other light of your own, a gray card won't help you when the WB is off too much from the ambient light color. I get this a lot in swim venues and other gyms. The mercury vapor lights above are bright and directional enough to show up in all the pictures but if any other light is present like strong daylight from windows, fill flash or whatever, the people end up with green or yellow caps and capes. It's pretty hard to avoid if the people are located below one of those light sources. 

I have used an Expodisc alternative before. But you could make a pretty good DIY Expodisc with a white coffee filter!
https://www.flickr.com/groups/diyphotographynet/discuss/72157603931692288/


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## pwp (Sep 6, 2014)

AcutancePhotography said:


> pwp said:
> 
> 
> > Cameras & Lenses: Always two bodies.... .... Speedlight 600ex-rt on each camera
> ...


That's where affinity kicks in. My reading was that the conversation had evolved somewhat. My long post was pitched more towards general events projects as opposed to the OP's specific job. Anyway, this is a kids event at an aquarium, not a riot. I work around large numbers of children a lot, you judge each situation on its merits. Equipment is in far greater danger in a room full of drunk adults, revellers or wedding guests.

-pw


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## sagittariansrock (Sep 6, 2014)

RustyTheGeek said:


> sagittariansrock said:
> 
> 
> > I feel taking too many shots affects my composition and overall quality. I get fewer keepers when shooting more, than when I think twice before taking a shot.
> ...



Yup, it's a bell-shaped curve


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## Valvebounce (Sep 6, 2014)

Hi PWP. 
I would agree with this comment in general, however I have witnessed very different levels of supervision of child events, from the perfectly (perhaps too perfectly, they should enjoy it) regimented, too aw they are just kids they don't mean any harm, they are only playing, etc whilst a near riot occurs. 
This seems to be very much a country and region specific attitude thing. As you say, judge the individual situation before you put any gear in harms way! 

Have fun, try stuff, learn a little, good luck, have fun!

Cheers, Graham. 




pwp said:


> Anyway, this is a kids event at an aquarium, not a riot. I work around large numbers of children a lot, you judge each situation on its merits. Equipment is in far greater danger in a room full of drunk adults, revellers or wedding guests.
> 
> -pw


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## eninja (Sep 22, 2014)

I just covered my 2nd event in my life. This was a big learning opportunity. And my first time to use a zoom lens on such a scale. I use my 6D and rented EF 24-70 F2.8L II.

On my first event, I learned that I must not be afraid to set higher ISO to prioritize shutter speed. And slowing down is better.

I made a checklist before pressing the shutter. (Camera in Manual mode and Speedlite in ETTL 0 to +2/3)

1. Is subject stationary or moving or approaching
a) if stationary - use back button, shutter speed = > fl
b) if moving - use back button, shutter speed = 160
c) if approaching - use shutter button and switch to AI, and shutter speed = 160, use center point AF 
2. Set the composition (choosing focal length) and selecting focus point
3. Check shutter speed > fl
4. Setting Apperture
a) Subject is near - Av > 5.6
b) Subject is medium far - Av > 4
c) Subject is far - Av < 2.8
5. Set IS0 such that metering is between -1 .. 0
6. Focus and take the shot


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