# Returned my D600. Thinking of a 6D. How do they compare? IQ? DR?



## hassiman (Aug 22, 2013)

I really like the lighter feel and the more comfortable grip of the 6D. I returned my D600 due to dust problems... I have been a Canon G series user for YEARS and loved all of them. In film days I used Nikon,,, F2s & F3s.

The D600 was uncomfortable but I lied the DR and IQ.

How do the 6D users here like the camera?

I do fine Art, Street photography and landscapes.


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## Apop (Aug 22, 2013)

Dust problems or oil problems?,

I think it is pretty clear that the sensor in the nikon d600 is better in almost every aspect?
You could compensate by putting better lenses on your to be 6d than you had on your d600?


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## brad-man (Aug 23, 2013)

I've never shot Nikon, but the 6D would be excellent for your purposes. According to CanonPriceWatch, refurbished 6Ds _may_ be included in an upcoming 20% off refurb sale.

http://www.canonpricewatch.com/


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 23, 2013)

IQ is going to be similar for any camera at low ISO's and for still or slow moving subjects.. The photographer makes 80% of the difference, the lens makes 19,9 % and whatever is left is due to the choice of body.

For challenging uses, low light, rapidly moving subjects, high DR, then different bodies will have their strong points.


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## docsmith (Aug 23, 2013)

Sorry to hear that you had to return your D600. 

There was a great thread by Dustin Abbott on why he chose the 6D over the 5DIII. I made a different choice and went with the 5DIII. So I can't specifically talk about the 6D. I can say the 5DIII IQ is great, more than I need, and from what I've seen the 6D might be minutely better.

Here is the thread:
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=12847.0

The review over at TDP (my favorite site):
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-6D-Digital-SLR-Camera-Review.aspx

Roger Cicala/Lensrentals.com on why he bought the 6D for his personal camera:
http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/02/roger-buys-a-camera-system-finally

Finally, the flickr 6D group:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/[email protected]/


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## docsmith (Aug 23, 2013)

Forgot image resource. They have a direct comparison at the bottom of the review:
http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/canon-6d/canon-6dA.HTM


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Aug 23, 2013)

hassiman said:


> I really like the lighter feel and the more comfortable grip of the 6D. I returned my D600 due to dust problems... I have been a Canon G series user for YEARS and loved all of them. In film days I used Nikon,,, F2s & F3s.
> 
> The D600 was uncomfortable but I lied the DR and IQ.
> 
> ...



high iso is great on the 6D (not that the D600 is bad, they both have about the same SNR but the 6D has 1/2 stop better DR by ISO2500 or so and around 2/3rds plus at ISO 8000 or so)

at low ISO100-400, especially 100-200 the D600 has VASTLY better DR though


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## Ryan708 (Aug 23, 2013)

Magic Lantern will have 14 stops of DR on it in no time  You will find most people like the color rendition of the 6D more than the Nikon, and the High ISO does very well on the canon. Menu systems will make more sence (in my opionion)

I am considering a 6D soon(ish, stupid money) But when I shoot a wedding I am damn near terrified of my 60D having an SD card shit the bed. And I would have the same fear using the 6D with it's single card slot.


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## silvestography (Aug 23, 2013)

I'd say go for it. For the work you do I don't think any of the 6d's downfalls will be too much of a detriment. If CanonPriceWatch is correct about that sale, I'd try and snag an old cheap powershot off ebay, and use it for the canon loyalty program. I might be wrong about this but you should be able to use that 20% discount in conjunction with whatever other sale is going on, giving you a ~$1000 6d. If that's the case, I may have to snag one for myself


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## dtaylor (Aug 23, 2013)

The DR difference is exaggerated in online forums. If you want to fight in forums, Canon sensors have more shadow pattern noise at 100% on screen. If you want to make normal sized prints, the latest version of ACR lets you recover a great deal of shadow detail. IMHO the ability to recover shadow detail is limited by the tonality of said detail, and both cameras hit that limit at the same time. But that's the difference between someone who makes prints and someone who scrutinizes 100% crops and DxO graphs in forums.

Based on the samples I've seen I would say the 6D looks better at high ISO by a stop.

Other then that it comes down to the photographer.


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## duydaniel (Aug 23, 2013)

Rule #1:
Do not engage Nikon discussion on a Canon forum :'(


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## drjlo (Aug 23, 2013)

A friend of mine just came back from a 15-day trip through national parks, carrying his D600. Before the trip, he was so happy his new D600 did not have the oil spot problem. He came back and said once he started clicking away, logging many shots, oil spots started to develop, now with the whole left upper quadrant showing many oil spots, which are present on all these beautiful photo's of national parks


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Aug 23, 2013)

dtaylor said:


> The DR difference is exaggerated in online forums. If you want to fight in forums, Canon sensors have more shadow pattern noise at 100% on screen. If you want to make normal sized prints, the latest version of ACR lets you recover a great deal of shadow detail. IMHO the ability to recover shadow detail is limited by the tonality of said detail, and both cameras hit that limit at the same time. But that's the difference between someone who makes prints and someone who scrutinizes 100% crops and DxO graphs in forums.
> 
> Based on the samples I've seen I would say the 6D looks better at high ISO by a stop.
> 
> Other then that it comes down to the photographer.



No they don't hit that tonality at the same time. The Canon, at low ISO only, hits it a good 2 full stops sooner. Funny that is meaningless and yet a 1/2 stop plus at the high-end is a radical advantage.... let's be fair and honest about things, there is no need to insist that the cam you have has to be the single best at every last thing, if it is not at something, it is not.


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## Skulker (Aug 23, 2013)

Any question like this is going to attract lots of heated debate, that will deteriorate into Drivel with lots of quotes and comparisons that the author is absolutely convinced makes perfect sense. 

Ultimately you will be able to take good pictures with either camera. If you work with the limitations of either you will be able to take great pictures, if you are capable.

I'm a canon user and very pleased with the equipment I have. But I have no doubts that if I used nikon no one who looked at my images could tell the difference.

The differences are not very significant. Use what you like, and don't listen to the pixel peepers or the people who play top trumps with spec sheets.


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## dtaylor (Aug 23, 2013)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> No they don't hit that tonality at the same time.



Yeah, they pretty much do. Compare shots with lifted shadow detail to shots exposed for the shadow detail. In terms of tone they both start to look like trash vs. the shadow exposed frame at about the same time. Geeks arguing in forums never notice this because they just shove the shadow slider all the way to the right and then cry about pattern noise.

Don't get me wrong. It's amazing what modern sensors and RAW processors can do. But past a certain point you are better off to expose and blend two frames. That point is not strictly determined by noise IMHO, and it's pretty close to the same for the sensors in question.



> The Canon, at low ISO only, hits it a good 2 full stops sooner.



I don't see a 2 stop difference even ignoring tone and focusing only on noise. But I'm sure there's a ridiculous DxO graph some where that "proves" me wrong.



> Funny that is meaningless and yet a 1/2 stop plus at the high-end is a radical advantage....



Who said that? Oh yeah...nobody.



> let's be fair and honest about things, there is no need to insist that the cam you have has to be the single best at every last thing, if it is not at something, it is not.



And who said that? Oh right...nobody. 

As I recall I painted the differences as minor and basically said it comes down to the photographer. Yet some how that triggered a defensive "Nikon be best!" rant.


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## dtaylor (Aug 23, 2013)

Skulker said:


> Any question like this is going to attract lots of heated debate, that will deteriorate into Drivel with lots of quotes and comparisons that the author is absolutely convinced makes perfect sense.
> 
> Ultimately you will be able to take good pictures with either camera. If you work with the limitations of either you will be able to take great pictures, if you are capable.
> 
> ...



Couldn't have said it better.


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## MLfan3 (Aug 23, 2013)

hassiman said:


> I really like the lighter feel and the more comfortable grip of the 6D. I returned my D600 due to dust problems... I have been a Canon G series user for YEARS and loved all of them. In film days I used Nikon,,, F2s & F3s.
> 
> The D600 was uncomfortable but I lied the DR and IQ.
> 
> ...



I currently still have a D600 + a EOS6D + a D800E and a couple of 5DMK2 bodies,which will be replaced by the 5D3 soon.

1 DR at base ISO the D600 wins , but not as significantly different as DXO or many moronic test chart only shooters making it out to be, it is just a stop or a stop and half difference, and not really dramatic.

2 high ISO , the 6D is a stop better , with better DR from ISO 800.

3 video , the 6D is better and it will get ML RAW , so it will be much better , not just a bit better.

4 size and weight , the 6 D is actually quite significantly smaller but not much lighter(I love the 6D +35mm f2IS, and I consider that as an ultimate lowlight kit).

5 battery life , the D600 wins hands down here.

6 the D600 has better dual SD card slots, the 6D has just one slot (this is a big deal if you need a back up slot all the time for wedding)

7 the 6 D can focus in real lowlight rated down to -3 EV, which is really dim , as dark as moon light level , but the D600 tracks moving things a bit better.

8 Wifi is a big thing , you can control the camera remotely while shooting long exposure or any kind of tripod based work.

9 the D600 has crappy pop-up flash and I think that makes it look cheap and actually it does break easily. my D700 had really annoying pop-up flash related issues, and I had to send it in for service 7 times and I finally sold it for the 5D2. the D600 seems even weaker than my D700 or 800E. so I expect it to be quite fragile.

10 IMO, the 6D built better with a bit more comfortable grip, but it is subjective , for me the A99V is the most comfortable camera to shoot with , its grip was as though it had been designed specifically for my right hand.
the 5D3 was the second most comfortable camera to hold and shoot with.


11 AWB is very very different , the Nikon has a bit of Cyan cast in it , while the Canon has a bit of Magenta cast in it. 

12 There are almost no zooms that can resolve the 24.3 mp FX sensor well in current Nikon zoom line (maybe the 70-200VR2 and 200-400f4VR2 are fine), so if you are zoom shooter , you are wasting much potential resolving power of the high resolution sensor of the Nikon. I , in fact , recommend Zeiss primes and 70-200mmf2.8VR2 for the Nikon , nothing less than that is really good enough for that sensor. the Nikon 24-70mmf2.8G ED , 16-35mmf4VR , 24-120mmf4VR, the 70-200f4GEDVR are all useless , they were great on 12mp generation bodies but not on the D800E or D600.


So , I think you should go down to a local shop and just try the 6D , 5D3 , A99v ,etc and see which one fits best in your right hand.

They are all good but not perfect or objectively better than the others , so just try them all and decide it for yourself. do not listen to others including me and people here since all of us are biased , even DXO is biased towards Nikon /Pentax ,etc.
Finally, one thing I am sure about by now is 36mp vs 24 is not that big difference in real life use, but usable aperture sweet spot gets much narrower with the 36mp sensor due to diffraction effect.
In order to get best out of it , we really need focus stacking and stitching in PS all the time ,so unless going at least 48mp or a bit more , it is meaningless to up the resolution from 20mp -24mp range, you will need to stitch or focus stack anyway(as you want to get best out of it).


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## Janbo Makimbo (Aug 23, 2013)

The 6D won the EISA best advanced DSLR of the year..... A category that the D600 would have been considered in... i imagine it was selected by people who know what they are talking about!!


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## mwh1964 (Aug 23, 2013)

Tried both and ended up with 5D3 instead. I think neither brand maker or specific model matters that much. So you gotta choose whatever is most comfortable to you. It's your money. The only thing I regret is waiting too long with my purchase missing a lot of good pictures in the meantime. Good luck with your new camera.


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## wsheldon (Aug 23, 2013)

MLfan3 said:


> I currently still have a D600 + a EOS6D + a D800E and a couple of 5DMK2 bodies,which will be replaced by the 5D3 soon.
> 
> 1 DR at base ISO the D600 wins , but not as significantly different as DXO or many moronic test chart only shooters making it out to be, it is just a stop or a stop and half difference, and not really dramatic.
> 
> ...



This is probably the most balanced, real-world comparison I've seen between these cameras/systems. Well done.

I have a 6D and concur with your observations on AWB (slightly magenta-biased), noise and DR.


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## Sporgon (Aug 23, 2013)

MLfan3 said:


> 9 the D600 has crappy pop-up flash and I think that makes it look cheap and actually it does break easily. my D700 had really annoying pop-up flash related issues, and I had to send it in for service 7 times and I finally sold it for the 5D2. the D600 seems even weaker than my D700 or 800E. so I expect it to be quite fragile



You get a big +1 from me on this point. I detest pop up flash on an expensive, otherwise solid camera. In my Nikon days the pop up flash on my D200 lasted all of about a week before getting snapped off. Nikons continued use of this on its higher grade cameras smacks of trying to ensure the camera has everything on it so as not to loose a potential sale. Canons attitude is: if you want weak, direct pop up flash you should be using APS anyway. 

Bet the higher grade 7D II doesn't have one even though it's APS.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 23, 2013)

dilbert said:


> The dust problems with the 6D will be the same as the D600.



Really? So, Canon issued a service advisory for dust issues on the 6D just like Nikon's service advisory for the D600 dust issue? That's news to me...


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## sdsr (Aug 23, 2013)

While owning a 5DII and Rebel T3i I rented a 5DIII, 6D, D600 and D800e, have sold the first two and now own a 6D and 5DIII. I would have been quite happy to own both brands, but couldn't find any advantages in the D600 over the 6D that mattered to me (and while I certainly see the appeal of the D800e, I would probably have to change my shooting style to make the most of it, which seems the wrong way round). 

It's surely undeniably true that the D600 has less shadow noise than the 6D at low ISOs (both are better than the 5DIII in that respect), but that only matters if you frequently underexpose or have dark shadows you want to brighten more than you can with a 6D. For me that's simply not an issue, but maybe it is for you. It's also true that the 6D is a bit better than the D600 at high ISOs, but the difference there is smaller, perhaps trivial. Otherwise, comparing photos taken by the two side-by-side (which I did only casually) I couldn't see any differences that I would call significant and that I could attribute to the camera rather than the lenses.

In terms of handling, I much prefer the 6D to the D600 ergonomically; changing settings seems simpler on the Canon, but as you're used to Nikon you may not agree. In some respects the D600 may have autofocus advantages over the 6D, but I found the 6D's focusing more accurate (though I guess that may be a lens issue rather than a body issue) and, in very low light, the 6D would focus accurately where the D600 simply wouldn't focus at all. I also didn't care for the slightly olive green cast to the D600's viewfinder or the green bias of its monitor. 

I also very much like the quiet shutter modes of the 6D and 5DIII, especially in quiet places indoors (museums, churches, etc.).

Finally, for my purposes at least, Canon's range of lenses is better.

You could always rent one and find out first hand....


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## sdsr (Aug 23, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > The dust problems with the 6D will be the same as the D600.
> ...



Right. Besides, the endless complaints and reports suggest it's more than just "dust"....


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## hassiman (Aug 23, 2013)

Sorry guys. Not trolling. Just trying to make a good informed decision. FYI D600 problem is not normal. If ANY Canon got sensor contamination like the 6D it would be all over the forums. Dust and oil that accumulates without the lens ever being off the camera... and after only 20 to 30 cycles. 

I have used Canon for years in the G series. Loved them. I don't have the $$$ for a 5D MIII but I am older now and my days of humping a 60 pound camera bag around are DONE. I figure that it's smart to buy the camera for the Glass as the bodies are obsolete now after only 2-3 years. I like the 24-105... the 17-40 seems like a great value and the 40 Pancake would be good for Panos. Not too much weight for this old dude.

The DR of the D600 was amazing... but I figure the successor to the 6D will surpass it and I will get that.


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## jpetep (Aug 23, 2013)

I bought a 6d after lots and lots of research and could not be happier. I'm not even using great lenses - a tokina 20-35, canon 50 1.8 and canon 70-300....last week I spotted an iguana at the top of a very tall palm tree hanging out in the branches. I shot him with the 70-300 and then cropped just the head....printed an 8x10 on my little portable canon ip100 and the colors and detail were amazing. I'd also add that the high iso is amazing,,,,I've taken more indoor shots of pets and people in TV only light in the living room....adjust the white balance right and its amazing. I took one last week and showed the person I was with and a she commented it looks like it was taken during daytime. I like the menu's too, with all options viewable under each major heading, avoiding having to scroll down and remember what's under each heading. I thought not having a white balance button would be an issue, but hit the quick button and its right there if u want to adjust it. To me, colors are subjective - I'd see full size of a d600 next to the 6d and the reviewer would write see, both look the same....to my eye the canon pics always looked more vibrant/detailed....fact is with all the camera controls, you can get almost any look you want nowadays.

We all fall victim to the technology too....while I've never been able to shoot with such high iso's as I do now with the 6d, which helps tremendously for low light and action, one of the best photos I have is one my daughter took when she was 12, in Canada, out of a moving car going 40mph with a 4mp canon powershot a80. She submitted it to the annual rand McNally contest and won first prize for the landscape category...I have a 30x20 of it on my office wall and people always comment what a beautiful picture it is.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 24, 2013)

dilbert said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



Oh, really? Does Nikon offer free sensor cleanings for their other cameras? No, just the D600. Why? Because apparently it's not really a 'dust' issue, but an oil splatter issue. 

Maybe you should switch to Nikon so you could send your lenses to them for free sensor cleanings, too. :


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## Sporgon (Aug 24, 2013)

dilbert said:


> hassiman said:
> 
> 
> > The DR of the D600 was amazing... but I figure the successor to the 6D will surpass it and I will get that.
> ...



I'm surprised at this comment. Do you actually use the successors to the 5D mkII ? If you're making that statement based on DxO ratings you'll find in practice there is considerably more latitude between the 5D mkI, II, III / 6D than those DxO scores would have you believe.


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## duydaniel (Aug 24, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> Oh, really? Does Nikon offer free sensor cleanings for their other cameras? No, just the D600. Why? Because apparently it's not really a 'dust' issue, but an oil splatter issue.
> 
> Maybe you should switch to Nikon so you could send your lenses to them for free sensor cleanings, too. :



Yes they do to my D5100.
Just complain there is spot in the pictures, they clean sensor for free under warranty.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 24, 2013)

duydaniel said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Oh, really? Does Nikon offer free sensor cleanings for their other cameras? No, just the D600. Why? Because apparently it's not really a 'dust' issue, but an oil splatter issue.
> ...



Service Advisories apply after the warranty period is up. Not the same thing. A service advisory represents a formal acknowledgement that there's a known problem with a model.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 24, 2013)

dilbert said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...


 
Nikon denied any dust and dirt issues until some of the major online bloggers showed it happening. Then they offered the cleaning, but still denied the issue.

For those who do not remember, the 1D MK III has a issue with incorrect lubrication, and Canon gave free cleanings and admitted that there was too much lube applied to some bodies. They will still clean them and fix a issue like that under the warranty.


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## Daniel Flather (Aug 24, 2013)

Janbo Makimbo said:


> The 6D won the EISA best advanced DSLR of the year..... A category that the D600 would have been considered in... i imagine it was selected by people who know what they are talking about!!



Sarcasm?


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## Janbo Makimbo (Aug 24, 2013)

Daniel Flather said:


> Janbo Makimbo said:
> 
> 
> > The 6D won the EISA best advanced DSLR of the year..... A category that the D600 would have been considered in... i imagine it was selected by people who know what they are talking about!!
> ...



Fact


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Aug 24, 2013)

dilbert said:


> hassiman said:
> 
> 
> > The DR of the D600 was amazing... but I figure the successor to the 6D will surpass it and I will get that.
> ...



Not since the 1Ds3 actually. The 50D and 5D2 were worse than the 40D/1Ds3 generation.
With the 6D they are finally back to where they had gotten to with the 1Ds3.


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## Aglet (Aug 25, 2013)

MLfan3 said:


> 12 There are almost no zooms that can resolve the 24.3 mp FX sensor well in current Nikon zoom line (maybe the 70-200VR2 and 200-400f4VR2 are fine), so if you are zoom shooter , you are wasting much potential resolving power of the high resolution sensor of the Nikon. I , in fact , recommend Zeiss primes and 70-200mmf2.8VR2 for the Nikon , nothing less than that is really good enough for that sensor. the Nikon 24-70mmf2.8G ED , 16-35mmf4VR , 24-120mmf4VR, the 70-200f4GEDVR are all useless , they were great on 12mp generation bodies but not on the D800E or D600.



I can pretty much agree with your whole post but have to say the Nikon 70-200/4 VR that I have on my 800e delivers excellent sharpness in a much smaller lighter package than the new 2.8 and will much less focus breathing as well.
OTOH, the Nikon rep did have to remind me that, "it's a _consumer-grade_ lens, not a pro lens," so basically stop complaining that VR doesn't work for long at -20C. :-X
I still have a quibble with it on image quality but knarly bokeh in transition zones is not uncommon on some lenses in this range.


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## nda (Aug 25, 2013)

my fav day/night street photog kit


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## Janbo Makimbo (Aug 25, 2013)

dilbert said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



My understanding is that the the oil problem on D600 was more like the Deepwater Horizon spill.....one more 'feature' it has over the 6 D!!


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2013)

dilbert said:


> So is it a dust issue or an oil issue? The post is about dust and the link to Nikon provides advice for dealing with dust (which is a problem for all interchangeable lens cameras.) It may be that people who are having problems with oil don't recognise it for being such but it is wrong to think that Canon DSLRs do not have dust problems or to say that they do not.



When did I state Canon sensors don't get dust on them? The link is talking about a known issue of the D600, not a 'problem for all interchangeable lens cameras' (having your car run out of gas is a problem for all cars, did your car maker issue a service advisory for your specific model telling you to put gas in the tank? : ).

The 'customer friendly' Nikon folks of whom you're so fond may be slow (they take weeks to service a lens), but they aren't stupid enough to call it oil. So, they state, "_Some D600 users have reported the appearance of random spots on their images which is *generally attributed* to the natural accumulation of dust...It has come to our attention that, in some rare cases, they may be reflected noticeably in images and removal may be difficult using normal measures._" Since 'normal measures' are usually sufficient for removing dust, they're clearly not talking about dust alone.


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