# Canon officially announces the Cinema EOS C500 Mark II



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 5, 2019)

> MELVILLE, NY, September 5, 2019 – Contrary to popular belief, sometimes a sequel is better than the original. That is the case with the all-new Canon EOS C500 Mark II cinema camera today announced by Canon U.S.A. Inc., a leader in digital imaging solutions. With its modular design, competitive price point and new features such as a 5.9K Full Frame CMOS sensor, user-changeable lens mounts, electronic image stabilization, internal cinema RAW light recording and the new DIGIC DV 7 Image Processor, the EOS C500 Mark II represents a bold leap forward for Canon’s Cinema EOS system line. The variety of assembly and lensing options help to make this camera ideal for a broad range of applications, from run-and-gun documentary shooting to live television broadcasts and big-budget films.
> *Preorder the Canon Cinema EOS C500 Mark II*
> 
> “As Canon’s position in the production industry has grown, we have sought to deliver new solutions that can perform...



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## mrproxy (Sep 5, 2019)

Does it have 24p?


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## bbb34 (Sep 5, 2019)

It even has 24V!


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## SteveC (Sep 5, 2019)

mrproxy said:


> Does it have 24p?



It probably has a "Make this look just like Hollywood shot it" button that's lit up and flickers, just to satisfy the kvetchers.


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## Chaitanya (Sep 5, 2019)

Finally nice to see Canon adopting new standard before anyone else. No wonder Sandisk released their CFx yesterday.


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## mrproxy (Sep 5, 2019)

So then what Canon has crippled in this unit?


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## -pekr- (Sep 5, 2019)

mrproxy said:


> So then what Canon has crippled in this unit?



Does not seem to be much cripled. Looks suspicious. Isn't it just a rebranded SONY?


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## NorskHest (Sep 5, 2019)

mrproxy said:


> So then what Canon has crippled in this unit?


No 4K 120 is the crippled part and the price. It’s nice they are using their 1dx sensor but this is nothing revolutionary


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## Adelino (Sep 5, 2019)

mrproxy said:


> So then what Canon has crippled in this unit?


The price?  I know it's worth it in the right hands.


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## NorskHest (Sep 5, 2019)

Adelino said:


> The price?  I know it's worth it in the right hands.


16k for no slow motion or 48fps, you can buy a red that’s better equipped. It should be closer to 10-12k.


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## CarlMillerPhoto (Sep 5, 2019)

My bet is this will be the first R mount Cinema EOS cam...that R mount adapter is coming. And yes, the ND's in the cinema line are close enough to the sensor to accommodate the short 20mm R mount flange.


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## Proscribo (Sep 5, 2019)

NorskHest said:


> 16k for no slow motion or 48fps, you can buy a *red *that’s better equipped. It should be closer to 10-12k.


Looks better on paper initially* but is pretty horrible to actually use.


*sure some specific things are just about the best you can get.


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## dock77 (Sep 5, 2019)

CarlMillerPhoto said:


> My bet is this will be the first R mount Cinema EOS cam...that R mount adapter is coming. And yes, the ND's in the cinema line are close enough to the sensor to accommodate the short 20mm R mount flange.



Why not launch it with RF mount as an option then? Stuck between EF and RF right now, with 5DIV, EOS R, C300II...


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## preppyak (Sep 5, 2019)

dock77 said:


> Why not launch it with RF mount as an option then?


Because they dont have a lens lineup to support real Cine production in RF mount right now, and no production studio is going to willingly buy an RF mount version of this when their shop is filled with EF-mount lenses.


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## slclick (Sep 5, 2019)

mrproxy said:


> So then what Canon has crippled in this unit?


You sound familiar with crippled units.


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## Mark D5 TEAM II (Sep 5, 2019)

NorskHest said:


> No 4K 120 is the crippled part and the price. It’s nice they are using their 1dx sensor but this is nothing revolutionary


Told ya all...


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## RayValdez360 (Sep 5, 2019)

Mark D5 TEAM II said:


> Told ya all...


going into the future i it would be a good feature. this is an investment. wouldnt need a camera for many years until some new standard takes over.


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## PureClassA (Sep 5, 2019)

I would have thought we’d see some higher frame rates at this price considering some others out there but the full frame part is very nice!


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## marathonman (Sep 5, 2019)

I like it. I'll buy it. Keep C200 or sell  (full frame, 4 to 5.9k, auto-focus when needed, stabilization when needed, excellent color, RAW etc)


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## CanonGrunt (Sep 5, 2019)

Two please!


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## NorskHest (Sep 5, 2019)

PureClassA said:


> I would have thought we’d see some higher frame rates at this price considering some others out there but the full frame part is very nice!


On paper this thing is pretty rad but no 4k120 is pretty lame. I think this will be a great camera but the frame rates like you said is pretty disappointing. This thing with 120,150 and 200 would replace most reds on all natgeo and discovery shows


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## NorskHest (Sep 5, 2019)

marathonman said:


> I like it. I'll buy it. Keep C200 or sell  (full frame, 4 to 5.9k, auto-focus when needed, stabilization when needed, excellent color, RAW etc)


If you decide to sell your c200 let me know


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## AntlerstoPeaks (Sep 5, 2019)

Does it have 10 FPS like the 90d? Or did canon cripple this model even below the 90D?!?! 

And not even a 32 MP sensor that even APSC cameras get. Canon certainly knows how to drive a business into the ground!


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## PowerMike G5 (Sep 5, 2019)

AntlerstoPeaks said:


> Does it have 10 FPS like the 90d? Or did canon cripple this model even below the 90D?!?!
> 
> And not even a 32 MP sensor that even APSC cameras get. Canon certainly knows how to drive a business into the ground!



Why? That's a much worse sensor for a video-centric only system. Something like 4K needs around 8MP at most. Having more MP is worse since video formats are defined have have certain resolutions in place. Having a smaller MP allows for better low light and DR.


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## Doug7131 (Sep 5, 2019)

NorskHest said:


> No 4K 120 is the crippled part and the price. It’s nice they are using their 1dx sensor but this is nothing revolutionary


1dx sensor? This uses the sensor out of the c700ff. It's completely different to any sensor canon uses in its stills cameras.


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## NorskHest (Sep 5, 2019)

Doug7131 said:


> 1dx sensor? This uses the sensor out of the c700ff. It's completely different to any sensor canon uses in its stills cameras.


From what I understand and have been told by my canon rep the 500 and 700 are based off the 1dxmkii sensor.


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## privatebydesign (Sep 5, 2019)

NorskHest said:


> 16k for no slow motion or 48fps, you can buy a red that’s better equipped. It should be closer to 10-12k.


It does slow motion and you can't buy a Red for that money that you can take out of the box and it shoot video. Add on all the crap that you need to make it work and Red that beats the specs is comfortably more expensive and doesn't have AF, which is a feature more and more video is relying on as it gets better and more reliable.

If my son wanted to work in the movie industry I wouldn't suggest spending any time becoming a focus puller...


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## Doug7131 (Sep 6, 2019)

NorskHest said:


> From what I understand and have been told by my canon rep the 500 and 700 are based off the 1dxmkii sensor.


They may be related but 1DX sensor is a different resolution and size than the c500 mk2/700ff sensor (5472 × 3648 vs 6062 x 3432 and 36x24 vs 38.1x20.1)


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## Diltiazem (Sep 6, 2019)

What is electronic image stabilization? IBIS or digital manipulation? Can 5 axis IS be done digitally?


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## NorskHest (Sep 6, 2019)

Doug7131 said:


> They may be related but 1DX sensor is a different resolution and size than the c500 mk2/700ff sensor (5472 × 3648 vs 6062 x 3432 and 36x24 vs 38.1x20.1)


The sensor is pretty much the same spec in pixel pitch as well as DR, they are made very similar. Didn’t know we needed to get into the semantics. I’m going off what a canon rep told me. I’ll give you his number if you want a debate


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## NorskHest (Sep 6, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> It does slow motion and you can't buy a Red for that money that you can take out of the box and it shoot video. Add on all the crap that you need to make it work and Red that beats the specs is comfortably more expensive and doesn't have AF, which is a feature more and more video is relying on as it gets better and more reliable.
> 
> If my son wanted to work in the movie industry I wouldn't suggest spending any time becoming a focus puller...


You can outfit a red for the similar cost. No one trusts autofocus fully for video. Red sort of has a auto focus/ one shot and the 500 doesn’t have 4K 120 which is what I was referring to


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## HarryFilm (Sep 6, 2019)

Meh! Don't get me wrong this is a DECENT camera (We have 40+ of the both the Global Shutter C700's and C700 FF's and who knows how many C300 Mk2's -- probably up to 60 of them now! -- so I know it's gonna be good!) ....BUT.... they didn't go far enough! When a DCI 8K (8192 by 4320 pixels) combined stills/video camera at 60 fps at 16 bits per colour channel at MF 65mm sensor is coming out soon, you BETTER start putting in some features that users REALLY WANT !!!

.


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## privatebydesign (Sep 6, 2019)

What RED has a FF sensor and comes with battery and charger and a monitor, a handle, full audio and video in/outs interface, grip and trigger etc, (indeed all you need to add is a lens and a memory card) and does FF 4k at 120fps, for $16,000?

More and more people are trusting AF, it depends on your output market, but AF is taking bigger and bigger bites out of the pullers jobs, sure AF will never replace all of them but the C500 II isn't that kind of camera, it is aiming at the market where it is being accepted as a useful asset/feature.


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## unfocused (Sep 6, 2019)

CFexpress card. I suppose that means that at least one slot in the 1Dx III will be the same. Hoping there will still be one CFast slot in the 1Dx III. Purely selfish. Trying to protect my investment.


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## syder (Sep 6, 2019)

This has the same launch price as the C300mkii ($16k USD). Whereas that looked overpriced for what it offered this looks very competitive.

A S35mm Red Dragon kit is USD$22,500. It will do 4k 120, and a lot of people prefer redcode to CanonRAWlite, but its S35 vs FF and 5k vs 5.9k. For an extra $6,500.


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## mb66energy (Sep 6, 2019)

preppyak said:


> Because they dont have a lens lineup to support real Cine production in RF mount right now, and no production studio is going to willingly buy an RF mount version of this when their shop is filled with EF-mount lenses.


If I were an independent movie maker using an EOS R with 1.2 85 and 2.0 28-70 I would like to use these lenses on the C500 ii .
And there is another reason what makes RF mount interesting: You can use 99% of all the (D)SLR lenses ever produced - at the moment you do not get a lot of money for FD lenses so I have kept them. They are good for M50 but would be great for 4k full frame because it doesn't need that amount of resolution.


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## privatebydesign (Sep 6, 2019)

unfocused said:


> CFexpress card. I suppose that means that at least one slot in the 1Dx III will be the same. Hoping there will still be one CFast slot in the 1Dx III. Purely selfish. Trying to protect my investment.


Damn the investment, make the slots the same so there is no penalty for using them! And this comes from somebody who just spent $300 on a dock with a CFast reader.


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## RunAndGun (Sep 6, 2019)

unfocused said:


> CFexpress card. I suppose that means that at least one slot in the 1Dx III will be the same. Hoping there will still be one CFast slot in the 1Dx III. Purely selfish. Trying to protect my investment.



Well, there’s your problem. None of this stuff is an investment. You’re buying tools to use. Or if it makes you feel better, assets. Everyone who blurts out the “investment” line just sounds silly. Stop trying to make it sound like you’ve made some grand, genius financial move.

Sorry, don’t mean to bust your stones,. I just get tired of seeing this all over the place on all the forums.


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## Tangent (Sep 6, 2019)

"For the first time ever with a Canon camera, users are able to change the lens mount themselves without the assistance from a Canon service center. Customers can purchase the EOS C500 Mark II with a standard EF mount and then have the option to purchase either EF-lock or PL mounts. This feature provides users with the creative freedom to pair the camera with the lenses that will provide the desired look for each project they work on."

--> Enter the M5 mk II with its wide-flanged mount that comes standard with an inset M mount, but can be switched out to an R mount. The precedent has been set. Just speculatin'


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## Matt Williams (Sep 6, 2019)

Camera looks good, but I wonder what this means for the Canon C300 MkIII ? When will that be announced and what specs can we expect from that?


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## Bahrd (Sep 6, 2019)

Diltiazem said:


> What is electronic image stabilization? IBIS or digital manipulation? Can 5 axis IS be done digitally?



Good question. We will find out soon, I 'm sure, but why not to speculate for a while: the first three axes are given, the back and forth movement compensation is likely implemented with the help of AF.
Can therefore the Dual Pixel Raw tech be effectively employed to compensate a movement in the yaw axis?


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## Etienne (Sep 6, 2019)

Looks like a great camera, and it will be very popular with independent filmmakers, especially as a rental unit. The only downside I can see is the limited high frame rate options. 
Check out the Cinema 5D comments:


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## Etienne (Sep 6, 2019)

mb66energy said:


> If I were an independent movie maker using an EOS R with 1.2 85 and 2.0 28-70 I would like to use these lenses on the C500 ii .
> And there is another reason what makes RF mount interesting: You can use 99% of all the (D)SLR lenses ever produced - at the moment you do not get a lot of money for FD lenses so I have kept them. They are good for M50 but would be great for 4k full frame because it doesn't need that amount of resolution.


The C500 mk II has a user-changeable lens mount so Canon may be planning to release an RF mount for this camera.


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## Sharlin (Sep 6, 2019)

Bahrd said:


> Good question. We will find out soon, I 'm sure, but why not to speculate for a while: the first three axes are given, the back and forth movement compensation is likely implemented with the help of AF.
> Can therefore the Dual Pixel Raw tech be effectively employed to compensate a movement in the yaw axis?



This is found in many Canon stills cameras. It combines lens optical IS with sensor-based digital cropping IS to achieve 5 DoF of stabilization.


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## neo302 (Sep 6, 2019)

Diltiazem said:


> What is electronic image stabilization? IBIS or digital manipulation? Can 5 axis IS be done digitally?



I think it is electronic and crops, and will work in tandem with IS lenses.


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## neo302 (Sep 6, 2019)

While not having high frame rates @4K stinks, I'd still take this any day over a RED and all the drama with that. I'm sure using this would be a lot more pleasurable. I think Canon did a great job with this one.


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## Graphic.Artifacts (Sep 6, 2019)

The lack of high frame 4K leaves room in the line for a revised super 35 C300 III. Canon likes to spread the good stuff around so you can't ever get everything you want/need in a single body. Even if that body costs $15,000.


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## Bahrd (Sep 7, 2019)

Sharlin said:


> This is found in many Canon stills cameras. It combines lens optical IS with sensor-based digital cropping IS to achieve 5 DoF of stabilization.


You are probably right, I was just speculating how 5 DoF's can be achieved "[...] _even without the use of lens with IS functionality._"


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## RunAndGun (Sep 7, 2019)

Bahrd said:


> You are probably right, I was just speculating how 5 DoF's can be achieved "[...] _even without the use of lens with IS functionality._"


I’m sorry, what? You mean 5 axis image stabilization.


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## Bahrd (Sep 7, 2019)

RunAndGun said:


> I’m sorry, what? You mean 5 axis image stabilization.


Yes, I do. The acronym "*DoF*" also means "_degree of freedom_" - and had been used in the post I replied to.


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## Sharlin (Sep 7, 2019)

RunAndGun said:


> I’m sorry, what? You mean 5 axis image stabilization.



There are only three axes. ”Five axes” is a misnomer, although unfortunately too widely used to change now. What’s actually there is five _degrees of freedom_.


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## syder (Sep 9, 2019)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> The lack of high frame 4K leaves room in the line for a revised super 35 C300 III. Canon likes to spread the good stuff around so you can't ever get everything you want/need in a single body. Even if that body costs $15,000.



No.

This does 4K60p, which gives you 40% speed. If you really, really need super-slow motion for a project at 4K, rent a Phantom for your 1000fps needs. Or a Red monstro which retails at a shitload more more than 15k.

AFAIK no one does FF35 RAW recording at 120p + for 15k. Admittedly, it's much easier to do a higher frame rate if you're using a smaller sensor or lower resolution. Hence the 2K/120 mode.

20% slow motion is only needed for fairly specialised stuff. The vast majority of material is shot at regular frame rate, and most slow motion footage is 40/50% speed. And for a lot of specialised slow motion stuff, 20% is nowhere near slow enough, hence the 1000/2000fps Phantom. Which unless you're made of money you rent.

I guess the next complaint is that this isn't a 50 megapixel stills camera, with stupid Canon forcing you to buy another camera for photography.


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## Graphic.Artifacts (Sep 9, 2019)

syder said:


> No.
> 
> This does 4K60p, which gives you 40% speed. If you really, really need super-slow motion for a project at 4K, rent a Phantom for your 1000fps needs. Or a Red monstro which retails at a shitload more more than 15k.
> 
> ...


My point being it creates an opening for a smaller frame high speed body between the C200 and C500's since the C500 has now dropped down into the C300's former price range. I don't think 120 FPS is an exotic frame rate. 60P is only slow motion if you are composing to a 24p or 30p timeline. My 3 1/2 year old 1DX Mark II does full frame 2K at 120 FPS. I don't know if the camera is technically capable of 4K 120 FPS and I suspect you don't either. If the point you are trying to make is that Canon doesn't spread it's features and benefits across the product line good luck with that.


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## RunAndGun (Sep 10, 2019)

Bahrd said:


> Yes, I do. The acronym "*DoF*" also means "_degree of freedom_" - and had been used in the post I replied to.



Ok. I follow you, now. I typically see, and use, "DoF" for "Depth of Field".


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## RunAndGun (Sep 10, 2019)

Sharlin said:


> There are only three axes. ”Five axes” is a misnomer, although unfortunately too widely used to change now. What’s actually there is five _degrees of freedom_.



I was just more or less referring to Canons info. But overall that goes to show just how effective relentless marketing is(say anything enough and it becomes "true"). Much like the term "Full HD". Nowhere in the ATSC specs was there any type of terminology like this differentiating 720P, 1080i or 1080p(which is not an official HD transmission standard), but even professionals started using it.


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## John @ ReleaseForm.app (Sep 19, 2019)

Interesting they're going to CFexpress media cards. Guess it makes sense and I applaud progress, but makes me realize my days with all my CFast cards are numbered.

Also, pretty interesting/nice that the price of a C500 Mark II at the end of 2019 is basically the same price (if I recall) as a C300 Mark I in 2014.


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## stevelee (Sep 19, 2019)

Sharlin said:


> There are only three axes. ”Five axes” is a misnomer, although unfortunately too widely used to change now. What’s actually there is five _degrees of freedom_.


OK. I was thinking that the fourth would let you shoot what something used to look like or would look like in the future, so stabilization would let you freeze time for a bit. But I couldn't imagine what uniting gravity and electromagnetism would do for photography, especially at 24p.


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