# Not Windows



## dstppy (Jul 30, 2013)

I'm at the point where I need a computer upgrade for Lightroom . . . because I get distracted when an image takes 10-14 seconds to process (yeah, I get distracted easily . . . uh, I guess I said that). 

The problem is that I'm a mac guy, a mini, air, mbp, iMac . . . I just can't afford a pro ($1800 refurb, to start with).

Here's the problem, I don't mind working with Windows7 . . . but it's a step backwards, and the resource overhead I'm just not willing to deal with (I'm a programmer and pretty much EVERYTHING runs better on Linux/Mac).

So, my question is: for Linux, has anyone found a really good alternative to Lightroom OR are any of you running a high-end hackintosh?

Thanks guys!


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## RLPhoto (Jul 30, 2013)

While I'm not a programmer, what I can say is the best decision I made computer wise was dumping apple around 2006 for my wintel machine. Win7pro is polished, fast, and just works. So much software for it, and the comfort of knowing it will be supported for years... Not so much for OSX. 

I still use my 2006 built machine, and only made minor upgrades to it. It's been a rock and I have to say, you should really reconsider a windows 7 machine. 

BTW, with 1800$ for that Mac Pro, you can build a monster PC for that $$$$.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 30, 2013)

I have a 17" MB Pro (I hope Apple starts making them again!) and a 13" MB Air. 

The 17" MBP is no slouch, but last week I swapped out the 500 GB HDD for a 960 GB SSD, and images load almost instantly in Aperture and DxO. So...an SSD might give your existing Macs a boost (unless you're already using them).


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## dr croubie (Jul 30, 2013)

I've been running Gentoo for the last 10 years at least.
I've got DPP working under Wine, it's not perfect but it gets the job done. I shoot RAW and then use it to batch-convert to jpeg, I use Gwenview to view all the jpegs and pick the keepers.
Then for the 1 in 100 special shots, I got back to DPP and maybe give it the occasional highlight/shadow/contrast sliders and noise reduction.
Then I use GIMP to edit the jpeg, but not much. Normally just crop and resize.

ps, DO NOT judge GIMP by trying the windows version. I've tried it and it is one of the most horribly annoying interfaces ever. GIMP on linux is a pleasure to use. Don't ask me why they're different but they are.

I've just recently had to install a Vista virtual machine using Virtualbox though, to be able to use my new Epson R3000 printer to its potential (I know you can print from linux but I've never tried). I also run Silverfast AI on it for my Epson v750 film scanner (I've been scanning in linux for a year but silverfast is so much more powerful and it came free with the scanner).
So I scan on vista, take to GIMP on linux for cropping, curves, a bit of Smart Sharpening, and maybe colour-correction (although I've calibrated the scanner for slides and I'm getting better at scanning colour negs correctly as I learn silverfast), then I take it back to vista to print. The virtual machine makes it easy to copy/save files to the same location. Too easy.

I know GIMP and Gwenview aren't as powerful as PS or Lightroom or anything, but it works fine for me. Not being able to do all the fancy things is actually making me learn my cameras properly, getting it right in-camera precludes the need for too much PP.


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## captainkanji (Jul 30, 2013)

Cost is the only reason I've not completely gone Apple. I have an iphone and ipad mini. I can completely upgrade my system for $800. I've been building my own systems since 2008 and will never purchase from a big box store again. The only issue I have now is the lack of an SSD for my OS drive. I'd love to have a mac book pro, but for that money, I could get an awesome PC and have enough left over to buy a prime lens. I do love playing with macs and imacs at the local BB store.


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## Niterider (Jul 30, 2013)

I use Wine as well. Works pretty well, but can sometimes be a pain to get working seamlessly. I guess I am on the other side of the boat. Do all my programming in a linux environment, but still see mac os as a step backward. For that reason, among many others, I refuse to buy a mac. 

So why not just build a computer and run Mint, Fedora, Ubuntu and emulate all programs that are designed for windows. That way you don't have to shell out the coin for some overpriced shinny crap.


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## rsvdude (Jul 30, 2013)

Using Linux Mint and found Bibble which is now Corel Aftershot Pro very good and very fast.
Neuroanatomists suggestion of an upgrade to an SSD is worth looking at. I did the same myself and now the computer is blistering fast 8)


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## RGF (Jul 30, 2013)

captainkanji said:


> Cost is the only reason I've not completely gone Apple. I have an iphone and ipad mini. I can completely upgrade my system for $800. I've been building my own systems since 2008 and will never purchase from a big box store again. The only issue I have now is the lack of an SSD for my OS drive. I'd love to have a mac book pro, but for that money, I could get an awesome PC and have enough left over to buy a prime lens. I do love playing with macs and imacs at the local BB store.



Looking to moving from Win 7 Dell XPS to a Mac Pro and Macbook Pro but concerned about $$$. Afraid the move will set me back $7-8,000 (! ouch!)


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## Leadfingers (Jul 30, 2013)

dstppy said:


> So, my question is: for Linux, has anyone found a really good alternative to Lightroom OR are any of you running a high-end hackintosh?
> 
> Thanks guys!



I'd also love to find a decent Hackintosh VM. I think the UI for Mac OS (after 10.4 or so) is god-awful terrible, but would love to have access to it.


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## JohanCruyff (Jul 30, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> an SSD might give your existing Macs a boost (unless you're already using them).


 
+1,000




RLPhoto said:


> While I'm not a programmer, what I can say is the best decision I made computer wise was dumping apple around 2006 for my wintel machine. Win7pro is polished, fast, and just works.


 
I used to think that switching from Win to Apple was almost a one-way road, but you are not alone.
http://photofocus.com/2013/06/10/about-my-switch-from-mac-to-windows/



My 2007 iMac with Snow Leopard opens the EOS M RAW files only with Canon DPP (Preview and iPhoto are obsolete).  And it's slower than when I'm opening the 12.8 Mpx RAWs from my 5Dc (12bit raw, BTW).
I always thought that my computer should last 7 years, so I'll try to resist. 
Options I'm considering: adopting Mountain Lion (and iPhoto 11 and/or Elements) and replacing the HD with a SSD (but CPU and GPU would not change)...


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## sepp (Jul 30, 2013)

Have you taken a look at Darktable? This is some sort of a Lightroom clone for Linux and MacOSX from the open source community.

http://www.darktable.org/

It behaves a little different than LR, but it also allows for LR catalog import. Haven't tried the import yet, but maybe this helps.

sepp


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## hawaiisunsetphoto (Jul 30, 2013)

My Windows 6-core box crushes Macs costing 2-3X more.... building a dual Xeon workstation that's even faster - found a killer deal on ebay. Both with Windows 8, which is great. Using LR and PS6/CC....


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## smithy (Jul 30, 2013)

Heh there's no simple answer to the questions posed in this type of thread. Being a programmer doesn't automatically mean that suddenly your word is gospel either - there are a LOT more programmers programming for Windows than OS X on the Mac, so take that for what it's worth.

My solution: have both.  I do. I play each to their strengths; the Mac for email and Internet (and portability), and a high-spec Windows 7 desktop for sheer horsepower (photo editing and gaming).


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## madmailman (Jul 30, 2013)

My wife creates 3d renderings from thousands of TIFF files which as you can imagine take quite some time on a MBP. So I was looking at getting an older refurb Mac Pro. After seeing the prices I ditched that idea and built a "Hackentosh". I'll probably get crucified for this but wow! For around $1000 (excluding box & screen) she now does her renderings in a couple minutes instead of overnight on a Quad Core box with 16GB RAM. And I haven't installed the SSD or an additional 16GB RAM yet. Bang for your buck you can't beat a Hackentosh. ;D


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## Marsu42 (Jul 30, 2013)

dstppy said:


> I'm at the point where I need a computer upgrade for Lightroom . . . because I get distracted when an image takes 10-14 seconds to process (yeah, I get distracted easily . . . uh, I guess I said that).



You do follow the standard advice for slow boxes to disable noise reduction & sharpening while working on the picture until you're completely finished, correct?

Plus splitting a large catalog does wonders, if the "Commit size" column in task manager (you have to enable the column first, it's not there by default) is larger or near your physical memory the lightroom hits the fan and it slows to a crawl.


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## symmar22 (Jul 30, 2013)

I started with Mac too in 2001 with PowerMac G4 733Mhz that was running both OS 9.2 (a real pain) and OS 10.0 that was a real novelty. I wanted to install games as well, so I built my own XP / AMD PC, and the Mac immediately looked obsolete (hardware speaking). I was not a big fan of Win XP, but since Windows 7, PCs are extremely reliable (OS speaking). You may not like it, but Win8 works even better. I could not live any more without building my own machine to the specs I need, so there is no weak link in my desktop.

Plus I want a real calibrated screen for photo editing (not a mirror).

A friend of mine is stuck with his PowerMac 8 cores since 5 years, he cannot afford to upgrade, while I change motherboard and processor every 2 years for 500€, my i7 3770k simply puts his 3000€ Mac to shame. His old GT8800 graphic card died twice already, Apple replaced it for 350€ every time (the PC version sells for 50$ on eBay).

In 12 years I only had a motherboard failure, I just went to the next computer shop and my PC was repaired the same evening for the price of the part only.

So I know Macs are fancy and they are supposed to feel more "arty", but the price quality ratio is extremely poor, and IMO their only advantage is a neat design and for some a SLIGHTLY more user friendly OS (better looking too I admit) 

A lot of people I know who work in creative jobs, are more and more angry with Apple politics to let down power users (aka PowerMac users).


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## John (Jul 30, 2013)

i run windows 8 on a system that i had built for me at Fryes. i am very pleased with the result. incredibly fast and stable.


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## Marsu42 (Jul 30, 2013)

John said:


> incredibly fast and stable.



Well, "fast" of course depends on the $$$, but w/o putting too fine a point on it in 2013 I'd expect "stable" from *any* computer system that doesn't have liquid nitrogen cooling


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## dstppy (Jul 30, 2013)

Wow, a lot of really good responses here! I spent *many* years PC building and really don't miss the arms race of swapping out for the biggest and best/dealing with stupid quirks, drivers etc.

Price is relative; Macs are more expensive, but if you build a GOOD workstation, we're not talking half the price of a comparable mac anymore. I started pricing something 'fast' together on paper a few months back and ended up above $1600 really quick on a machine that wouldn't be totally obsolete in 3 years.



captainkanji said:


> Cost is the only reason I've not completely gone Apple.


My experience is that the best value for apple products comes when the base of one of their line completely meets your needs. It becomes a 'one more thing' prospect after that and gets REALLY expensive.



dr croubie said:


> I know GIMP and Gwenview aren't as powerful as PS or Lightroom or anything, but it works fine for me. Not being able to do all the fancy things is actually making me learn my cameras properly, getting it right in-camera precludes the need for too much PP.


I love and hate GIMP. Love it because it CAN do whatever I need it to, Hate it because, unlike Photoshop, you can't just ask someone you know how to do something. 

LR I use for:
Lens Corrections, Noise Reduction, Straighten/Crop, Lighting/Color Correction and that's about it. I like how I can cycle from image-to-image, and/or group edit.



Marsu42 said:


> dstppy said:
> 
> 
> > I'm at the point where I need a computer upgrade for Lightroom . . . because I get distracted when an image takes 10-14 seconds to process (yeah, I get distracted easily . . . uh, I guess I said that).
> ...


Hrm, good question! My CR2 are in one folder, I do an import manually dropping them there, then use "synchronize". What I can't wrap my head around is why it doesn't render the images very fast/ahead of time. I tried the following:
1) Just letting it sit there for an hour, so it pre-renders, say, 100 photos
2) Cycle through each individually, only allowing time for the EXIF data to load before moving to the next
My assumption was, it had to finish what it was doing due to processing time, but it still cycles slowly after it 'finishes' with the previews/full image -- so maybe what I'm hitting *IS* disk/bus overhead.



neuroanatomist said:


> I have a 17" MB Pro (I hope Apple starts making them again!) and a 13" MB Air.
> 
> The 17" MBP is no slouch, but last week I swapped out the 500 GB HDD for a 960 GB SSD, and images load almost instantly in Aperture and DxO. So...an SSD might give your existing Macs a boost (unless you're already using them).


What neruo brought up gave me an idea; I think I'm going to pick up one of these as a 'cheap' fix/test:
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00657GLH8/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1OQ5B5VHVHCUX

My iMac doesn't have USB 3, but it DOES have Firewire . . . so that should eliminate any question as to if it's actual processing power I need or if it's a bus/disk access issue.

-------

I'm actually surprised about the linux guys with Mac hate. I understand it's benefits, and I only use Mac OS as a crutch because Xwindows isn't completely familiar to me and frustrates me. 

Still, it's a great step forwards from Windows and what Windows has become.


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## Steb (Jul 30, 2013)

I do all my processing in Linux. I have DPP running in wine but actually I am not using it.

My tool of choice is Corel's Aftershot Pro. You can download a one month evaluation version and try it out. It's available for Linux/Mac/Win.

Other really good tools are RawTherapee (also multi platform) and Darktable (Linux/Mac).

The only feature I am missing from time to time is automatic CA correction with predefined camera/lens profiles. Still there is a plugin for Aftershot Pro that can do it after some manual training.


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## rocket_scientist (Jul 30, 2013)

For what it is worth, this guy says he has gone to linux for all of his machines and uses a virtual box to run any Windows applications he needs.

clarkvision.com

He also has some really great info on sensors and such.


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## kirispupis (Jul 30, 2013)

I am actually a programmer myself and one core tenet I have learned from actually shipping software is you need to identity what your core value-add is and let others handle the space around it. Sure - there are very intelligent programmers out there who do not trust anything they didn't write - but most of those people you find in universities or dead end jobs - not actually producing software that matters. A big ingredient to creating dependable software on time is finding the right partners.

For this reason I stick with Windows. Every ~4 years I rebuild a new machine that meets my needs for the years to come. Nowadays I then give my old machine to my kids so the average machine has an 8 year life. It is relatively easy to use and machines are inexpensive to build. This enables me to focus on the important things - which for me is photography.

The thing that has always made me marvel about Linux is the amount of effort people spend just so they can say they're not using Windows. I have used it in the past and it is a major pita to do many things that are trivial in Windows. Another programming tenet I have learned is when you find yourself constantly coming up with workarounds it is a sign you are taking the wrong path.

For Macs, I rather like them and my frustration is focused on price and somewhat on breadth of software. Recently I had to buy a new machine after one of my son's machines reached the end of its life and I seriously considered a Mac due to my frustration with Windows 8 - which I consider to be the worst UI change in the history of software. After some investigation the prices were just ridiculous and Mac did not support software my wife needed for her business - so I strolled into Costco and picked up a cheap Windows desktop. 

So my advice is to keep in mind when buying a machine that the end goal is to pick up something that enables you to grow with your photography. Every minute you spend figuring something out due to the OS choice is time lost doing what you love.


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## wsmith96 (Jul 30, 2013)

Corel's Aftershot Pro works in Linux, windows, and mac. It's a renamed version of Bibble and I understand that they are working on their next release now.

For a computer, I use a Z400 workstation from HP (disclaimer - I am a HP employee). It doesn't hesitate on anything I throw at it. You can also get them pretty cheap these days if you don't mind refurbished - just look up "hp remarket" in google and it will take you to the business line of HP refurbished products, which is not the same as the consumer products.

I can't speak to mac performance, but like neuro was saying, there's most likely a hardware upgrade you can do to get some additional performance out of what you have - especially with an SSD upgrade if you don't have one already. I only caution that continual upgrades on older hardware can end up draining your wallet with no significant (perceptible) improvement.


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## dstppy (Jul 30, 2013)

Have any of you done any homebrew with setting up a "fusion drive"?


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## jasonsim (Jul 30, 2013)

Maybe have a look at a Mac mini with quad i7, 4GB, and 1TB fusion drive. Then upgrade the memory to 16GB on your own. Comes with thunderbolt and USB3, so external drive options abound if more storage is needed. I use a Lacie 2Big 6TB thunderbolt drive and it is nearly as fast as the built in SSD on my rMBP. 

Use the display / keyboard / mouse you have and upgrade once funds are available.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 30, 2013)

symmar22 said:


> So I know Macs are fancy and they are supposed to feel more "arty", but the price quality ratio is extremely poor, and IMO their only advantage is a neat design and for some a SLIGHTLY more user friendly OS (better looking too I admit)



RE price to quality ratio, I used a 1st gen 17" Core Duo MPB from 2006-2011, and over that 5 year period I went through 6 work-provided PC laptops (two Compaq, three HP then a Lenovo). Corporate pricing on them was probably in the $1100-1200 range, so my $2500 Mac was a lot cheaper in the long run. The Lenovo was the first one that outspec'd my Mac. Not all of the failures were hardware - I wrecked one PC by tripping over the power cord and yanking it off the table to the tile floor. I've done that a few times to the Mac laptops in the house, and our kids have done that more times than I can count...the 'neat design' of the MagSafe power connector means the Macs never fell to the floor.

The old 17" MBP still works, and the kids will likely be using it soon.



symmar22 said:


> A lot of people I know who work in creative jobs, are more and more angry with Apple politics to let down power users (aka PowerMac users).



Have they seen the new 'coffee can'? 8)


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## Jay Khaos (Jul 30, 2013)

On paper, mac specs aren't as attractive as a custom built PC tower—but at the end of the day, its not all about technical specs or we'd all be trading in our 5DIIIs and 1Dx's for that 43 megapixel nokia smart phone. Especially in the photography world where prices go up exponentially with marginal weight-saving/build quality enhancements... 

That being said, the mac pro is not a smart budget purchase (even used/refurb), in my opinion. I'd go for a newish imac and put in 16 gb of the fastest ran it can take and an SSD (aftermarket, smaller one jsut for running the apps and store files on an external). And I'm talking about getting as new of one that would meet your budget (2 years old maybe?). 


I have an iMac that has lasted for 4 years now (first 27" model that was released with upgraded quadcore processor, 16 gb 1066mhz ram, 1 TB hdd (SDD would have been even better), and it still runs everything just as well as it did when it was new. I have the entire Adobe CS6 master collection installed (CS 4 and 5 before that) with lots of AE plugins, 3D modeling software, games, etc... I plan on upgrading to the new macbook pros coming out with Haswell processors, or maybe sell my kidneys for the new black mac pro if I'm feeling crazy (it can edit 4K video footage in real time and renders it faster than the actual video time... totally necessary for photoshopping 5DIII photos).


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 30, 2013)

The biggest improvement may come from using a SSD, try that before getting a new machine. Fast SSD's are low cost now.


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## Halfrack (Jul 30, 2013)

OP is making their life more difficult, and this tread can quickly devolve into a win/mac/*nix fight.

Please state what you currently have, as laptop and desktop solutions are different. Chances are an internal SSD upgrade and maybe a RAM upgrade will tide you over. State where you have your LR library. FW 800 is much faster than USB2, but more importantly FW is at a lower CPU overhead on a Mac. If you're working against an external USB2 drive, make sure there isn't a hub between the drive and your computer.

Fusion drives like in the new iMac's are nice, and you can do it with any Mac running 10.8 and that has 2 drives, a SSD and a SATA drive.


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## EOBeav (Jul 30, 2013)

dstppy said:


> So, my question is: for Linux, has anyone found a really good alternative to Lightroom OR are any of you running a high-end hackintosh?



The only thing keeping me from switching to Linux full time is Lightroom. There is nothing in the repositories that come close to it's ability to simplify and streamline your workflow. You can get the job done in UFRAW+GIMP, and I've even taken a look at DarkTable (a play on the "Lightroom" name), but no, there's nothing out there. Believe me, I've looked.


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## Marsu42 (Jul 31, 2013)

dstppy said:


> Hrm, good question! My CR2 are in one folder, I do an import manually dropping them there, then use "synchronize".



Imho not a smart idea, Windows filesystems hate folders with a lot of files (only the newest Linux/unix fs are better here). How many files are in there? Simply do an experiment: Copy some cr2 into another folder, create a new catalog, add them nr/sharpness to zero - better that way?



dstppy said:


> What I can't wrap my head around is why it doesn't render the images very fast/ahead of time. I tried the following:
> 1) Just letting it sit there for an hour, so it pre-renders, say, 100 photos



100 cr2 in an hour? That's pretty crappy, even by my standards (dual core 2ghz laptop). With 20mb/cr2 this cannot be a disk bottleneck, but rather sounds maxed out cpu or memory. Look at taskmanager, enable the relevant columns (cpu usage, cpu time, peak working set, max commit size) and find out.


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## Kelt0901 (Jul 31, 2013)

symmar22 said:


> I could not live any more without building my own machine to the specs I need, so there is no weak link in my desktop.



I agree, it's easier to build a PC exactly to your needs and, is easy and cost effective to upgrade as technology changes. Apple technology usually lags behind the PC and is very inflexible with upgrades.


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## Marsu42 (Jul 31, 2013)

Kelt0901 said:


> symmar22 said:
> 
> 
> > I could not live any more without building my own machine to the specs I need, so there is no weak link in my desktop.
> ...



-1 ... because today's pcs are built out of fewer components (many things are on the cpu die for example), there is very little to customize in a standard setup that *really* makes a difference - which is why so many oem are going out of business, they've simply lost their selling points.

On the other hands buying a complete pc ensures you support (fewer points to argue over who has done what wrong) and people who do this for a living imho simply are better at building a clean machine with proper cabling than me doing it every so many years. Plus many oems get very competitive bulk prices for their components which I find very hard to match even when buying at the cheapest discount/online shops I know.

It might make a difference for hardcore gaming and ultra-high end setups, but for your general lightroom/ps editing personally I'm leaning towards buying a complete desktop once I feel the need for more speed than my current crappy laptop can deliver.


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## Random Orbits (Jul 31, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> -1 ... because today's pcs are built out of fewer components (many things are on the cpu die for example), there is very little to customize in a standard setup that *really* makes a difference - which is why so many oem are going out of business, they've simply lost their selling points.
> 
> On the other hands buying a complete pc ensures you support (fewer points to argue over who has done what wrong) and people who do this for a living imho simply are better at building a clean machine with proper cabling than me doing it every so many years. Plus many oems get very competitive bulk prices for their components which I find very hard to match even when buying at the cheapest discount/online shops I know.
> 
> It might make a difference for hardcore gaming and ultra-high end setups, but for your general lightroom/ps editing personally I'm leaning towards buying a complete desktop once I feel the need for more speed than my current crappy laptop can deliver.



-1. Just because the chipset includes more features, it doesn't mean that they perform well. The cheap complete PCs have older/slower technologies, sometimes several generations older. RAM in groups and speeds that make them harder to upgrade to significantly larger values, power supplies that can barely support additional hardware (i.e. discrete video), etc. If you want a barebones computer (around 500), then a complete PC might be worth it, although you can still get chassis + MB + cpu as a package and add on for a competitive price).

The key to building your own is to get quality parts the first time. Reuse your monitor, keyboard, mouse, case, optical drive, HDDs and power supply. Upgrade the video card, motherboard, add a HDD or a SDD or whatever you want. The computer companies may be able to buy parts for less money but then you're paying for their labor, their overhead and their profit.


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## Rofflesaurrr (Jul 31, 2013)

dstppy said:


> What neruo brought up gave me an idea; I think I'm going to pick up one of these as a 'cheap' fix/test:
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00657GLH8/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_5?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A1OQ5B5VHVHCUX
> 
> My iMac doesn't have USB 3, but it DOES have Firewire . . . so that should eliminate any question as to if it's actual processing power I need or if it's a bus/disk access issue.
> ...



Firewire 800 is faster than USB 2.0, but not THAT fast. You'll see a realistic read/write speed of about 60-70MB/sec over Firewire 800. Most current generation SSDs will exceed 500MB/sec read speeds. You will notice a little improvement due to the SSD having near instantaneous access times though. I wouldn't waste money on a SSD if FW800 is the only connection option. I guess you don't have Thunderbolt?


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## symmar22 (Jul 31, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> Have they seen the new 'coffee can'? 8)



Sorry Neuro, I did not want to enter the Mac vs PC dogfight, Apple makes good machines for sure, but for me they are too much of a closed system (hardware speaking). I guess I see it too much from the maintenance point of view, since I am used to built and repair myself my computers (I love Lenovo laptops for the very same reason). The laptops are excellent, but the desktop offer is IMO too limited, not much between the 3000$ workstation and the 27 inches "vertical laptop". Lots of Mac users I know would be happy with smaller, cheaper, "non-workstation" version of the MacPro.

Yes I saw the "coffee can", it seems like a very nice tool, my only worry is about the graphic power; I mean it's too much of it. So I hope for Mac users that they will propose a cheaper alternative. Two powerful FireGL is overkill for 99% of the people (unless you edit pro 4K video), and is a lot of wasted money and energy for most of us; it's likely the graphic cards will be for some 1500 to 2000$ part of the equation, so I sincerely hope they will release a model with the poor man's graphic card.


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## Sith Zombie (Jul 31, 2013)

JohanCruyff said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > an SSD might give your existing Macs a boost (unless you're already using them).
> ...



I had Leopard for around 6 years and didn't want to upgrade. It was fine for my existing gear but then I got a new camera and aperture wouldn't recognise the RAW files so I updated to Snow Leopard so that aperture could update [Leopard support pretty much dropped]. After that I decided just to go the whole boss hog and update to Mountain Lion and I'm glad I did. Some of the new features are great and any stuff I don't like, like launch pad, I just don't use. You can also customise stuff to bring back the things you miss from Leopard too, for example I got rid of the springy scrolling on folder boxes and changed expose to how it behaved in Leopard. I'd suggest upgrading Ram to 8gig if you haven't already and with a new SSD then you should be fine.


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## dstppy (Jul 31, 2013)

Halfrack said:


> OP is making their life more difficult, and this tread can quickly devolve into a win/mac/*nix fight.



It *has* descended there already, but windows wasn't invited to the party (but showed up anyhow - sort of how they try and sell you an automatic transmission when you tell them you don't want one) ;D



Halfrack said:


> Please state what you currently have, as laptop and desktop solutions are different. Chances are an internal SSD upgrade and maybe a RAM upgrade will tide you over. State where you have your LR library. FW 800 is much faster than USB2, but more importantly FW is at a lower CPU overhead on a Mac. If you're working against an external USB2 drive, make sure there isn't a hub between the drive and your computer.



You're right; I should have explained exactly what I had an how it was set up (and explained where the slowness was, which I did later on). 

Primary work is done on a pre-"i5/i7" iMac (back when intel was calling the stuff 'core'), keep forgetting to look at the specs when I'm at home. Catalog and Raw Cache file are on primary drive (most likely a 5400rpm), but the raw files are on a USB HDD, which I've pretty much decided is the real issue. I tried bumping the cache size to 10GB as adobe suggested, with some speed improvements.



Halfrack said:


> Fusion drives like in the new iMac's are nice, and you can do it with any Mac running 10.8 and that has 2 drives, a SSD and a SATA drive.



I currently have en route a FireWire/SSD that I'm going to move my current set of RAW files to, and the Cache File, and Catalog. If THAT gives me an acceptable improvement, then I'll probably just get a newer machine with faster drives and USB 3.0 some time in the future.



Rofflesaurrr said:


> Firewire 800 is faster than USB 2.0, but not THAT fast. You'll see a realistic read/write speed of about 60-70MB/sec over Firewire 800. Most current generation SSDs will exceed 500MB/sec read speeds. You will notice a little improvement due to the SSD having near instantaneous access times though. I wouldn't waste money on a SSD if FW800 is the only connection option. I guess you don't have Thunderbolt?


I did a side-by-side file transfer on Windows and Mac with USB 2.0 vs FireWire 400 and that was NOT my experience. I don't know if USB 3.0 is less processor intensive, but 2.0 was a little more than 1/3 slower FW400 when I did testing a few years back. I could easily transfer files quickly via FireWire from my mac to PC until windows decided that the card was unrecognizable out of the blue.

No Thunderbolt on the iMac.

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Windows wasn't really invited to the party, yet somehow it got in (that will probably be fixed on Patch Tuesday).

At any rate, this was why I brought up a Hackintosh (a hand-built PC with similar/same components as a mac) . . . they're still expensive to build if you use good parts.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 31, 2013)

dstppy said:


> Rofflesaurrr said:
> 
> 
> > Firewire 800 is faster than USB 2.0, but not THAT fast. ... I guess you don't have Thunderbolt?
> ...



My backup HDDs are FW800. Even a complete clone is pretty fast (~2 hrs). Last week, I swapped my internal 500 GB HDD for a 960 GB SSD, but the exteral SATA connector I borrowed from IT was USB2. Took close to 8 hrs to copy the drive.


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## dstppy (Jul 31, 2013)

Update (Fusion Drive): You can only hack one into working if you can install internal SSDs.

We'll see how it goes tomorrow with the FW/SSD


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## dstppy (Jul 31, 2013)

EOBeav said:


> dstppy said:
> 
> 
> > So, my question is: for Linux, has anyone found a really good alternative to Lightroom OR are any of you running a high-end hackintosh?
> ...



My (Linux) co-worker just bludgeoned me into trying DarkTable; I'm going to see if I can get that running on the Mac tonight, just to shut him up . . .


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## docfuz (Jul 31, 2013)

Hi everybody,
after months of lurking I think I just registered to reply to this thread.

Please note: I'm a *nix guy. I code. I dwelve in kernel land. I assess systems' security for a living. I think, though, this doesn't mean a thing in this thread. Cost should be a consideration.

I use Linux and OS X. My usual system while going mobile is a MBP with various VMs with Linux and Windows inside. I've been using Lightroom on OS X since three years and Bibble Pro (now Corel Aftershot Pro) on Linux for almost four. So the first real answer to the relevant OP question is: Corel Aftershot Pro. It's available for Linux now, has got commercial support, it's fast and it works. Is it like Lightroom? Conceptually yes. Is it the same? Hell, no. Better or worse? As a streamlined workflow app, probably not, but that's the case with almost all of Linux desktop apps. You just have to fiddle around, and if you've got no system administration skills whatsoever, it can be a pain sometimes, just to understand why the printer stopped working. In this case, migrating from OS X to Linux could be a thorn in your side.

Anyway, I second the advice of trying with RAM and SSD, first. Please note that 10-14 secs for a single RAW file doesn't quite sound right for RAM and storage subsystems. There is no evidence of a "old" CPU sub-system, unless something it's faulty in your system.

About moving to a wintel do-it-yourself box: it's fun and entertaining. Is it cheaper? I wouldn't say so. Whenever I go to make MY system with the latest and fastest and greatest techs in CPU, board, storage, networking and GPU I really come close to the same iMac, if I choose same quantities for everything and I do NOT get a comprehensive commercial support for the system as a whole. Moreover, for my photo hobby, I need RAM and storage, not the latest CPU or GPU unless I do a LOT of retouching with photoshop-likes apps.

People often say the macs are "closed" concerning HW and use older techs. I do NOT think so. Most often, last macs use AT MOST 2nd-3rd generation in every sub-system: CPUs, chipsets, storage, GPUs. What is the real problem? They are crippled by marketing: why on earth can't I get a notebook with 64GBs of RAM? So to keep battery stats real? So to force me to buy the coffee can? Probably.

But I just don't see why a 15'' mbp with 16GB RAM and SSD can't let you fly opening your raws. There is no such a system without flaws and that costs really less then others when specs are maxed out with latest technologies. The problem with OS X and Windows, though, is that filesystem/registry cleaning is not transparent to the user and RAM usage is sometimes, well, stupid. You should get really better with Linux if you knew what to do and what to look for, but only after configuring every other thing that you get for granted and already working out of the box with Win and OS X. So choose carefully.

Going to external storage: please buy/use USB3 / thunderbolt / e-sata / fw800 / usb2 in this order (cost-wise) and use, if possible, a single bus for your discs. Do not plug your external storage on the same bus shared by other devices: this is most true with USB2 and FW.

Last problem with macs: the great hw/sw integration, very closed and very tuned, though, to user satisfaction, means ANY kind of quirks whenever you're beginning to experience HW faults in the logic board, in some chipset, in the RAM, in the CPU itself. BUT you should see problems in many more contexts, not only while opening RAWs in Lightroom.

Oh, I shoot Canon, obviously 

doc


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## Halfrack (Jul 31, 2013)

dstppy said:


> Primary work is done on a pre-"i5/i7" iMac (back when intel was calling the stuff 'core'), keep forgetting to look at the specs when I'm at home. Catalog and Raw Cache file are on primary drive (most likely a 5400rpm), but the raw files are on a USB HDD, which I've pretty much decided is the real issue. I tried bumping the cache size to 10GB as adobe suggested, with some speed improvements.



Ah, you have a model that you can actually open  Yea, I'd go as far as saying just clone your internal drive over to a SSD and carry on. I've seen 13" Core 2 Macbooks come back from being 'too slow' for users to being fully functional with this minor change.


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## dstppy (Aug 1, 2013)

Specs: Early 2009 24" Mac 2.93 Core2Duo 8GB Ram.

Just took 20 seconds when hopping from one rendered image for the next to stop "Loading" and go crisp.

So we'll see tomorrow when we rule out disk access/bus speed.

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I just did a quick resell check and I can probably get over $1000 for a 4 year old computer. Now that I think about it, I could probably drop $1500, sell my Mini, Air and iMac and upgrade to current base Air/Mini and get a 27" iMac --- honestly, that's the same as buying a $600 video card and selling it every year or two for a $100 upgrade to the new latest and greatest . . . ahh nostalgia ;D


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## dstppy (Aug 2, 2013)

AAAAAAAND it works.

The FW800 SSD:
Moved the Cache file & Catalog . . . some of it was faster. Moved the CR2 (over 2 hrs since it was reading from the USB2 drive) and we're down to 1-3 seconds loading time per, which is usable.

The drive also has USB3, so it's forward-compattible.

So the bottleneck was definitely drive speed/bus. 

The wife's also given me the OK to sell/trade up, so I may be in business 

Thanks again for the discussion guys.


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