# Upcoming Canon FF bodies question: CF/CFfast compatibility



## pedro (Dec 31, 2015)

Hi,
While reading discussions on upcoming FF bodies I just asked myself,
if let's say a next 5D body will accept my CF cards or if it requires a whole new set of memory units?
Thank you for your help, feeling quite greenhornish tech-wise ;-)
And Happy New Year of course
Regards
Peter


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## ajfotofilmagem (Dec 31, 2015)

So far, it seems certain that 1DX mark II will have two CFast card slot, but no one knows about 5D Mark iv.

I see two possibilities for 5D Mark iv:
* A slot for CFast card, and one for SD.
* A CF card slot, and one for SD (as currently exists).


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## tcmatthews (Dec 31, 2015)

The big question is do you think Canon needs to use a faster card technology? CF is not going to get much faster it is already faster than many expected it to get. I do not know if CFast is really the way to go. But I think CF needs to go if they want to do video. 

I believe it would be best if Canon releases a new 5D with the following

Full speed SD U-II 
A new card slot (C-fast, XQD)
or

Dual SD cards

Given how fast SD is getting I do not see the need for CF if Canon will produce a camera that can actually hit max write speed. But then again I said the 5D III needed a full speed SD card writer and was pissed as hell they did not include one. And yes I bought my new 7D II with full knowledge that unless I bought a 5Dsr it would likely be the only camera I own that will ever use CF.


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## JMZawodny (Dec 31, 2015)

I doubt the 5d4 will have CFast unless it also has 4K video. So, I hope they dump the SD slot and go with two CF slots. There, the lines have been drawn in the sand and I think this can only be settled by a poll!

Surely Canon will implement whatever the masses desire even if it means delaying the launch date.


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## privatebydesign (Dec 31, 2015)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> So far, it seems certain that 1DX mark II will have two CFast card slot,


Certain? To whom, and why?

I doubt if the 1DX MkII will have video much better than the 1DC and that works fine with two CF slots and the write capacity of CF cards is fine for stills from a 24MP camera with a decent buffer and processors.

Canon are very conservative and there are many examples of things like card formats and battery technology that they have held onto for a little too long because of wide spread acceptance, and cost. I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the 1DX MkII with CF card slots.


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## Don Haines (Dec 31, 2015)

tcmatthews said:


> The big question is do you think Canon needs to use a faster card technology? CF is not going to get much faster it is already faster than many expected it to get. I do not know if CFast is really the way to go. But I think CF needs to go if they want to do video.
> 
> I believe it would be best if Canon releases a new 5D with the following
> 
> ...


A lot of people dis the SD cards, but the U-II version of the cards are FAST and you can get 250MB/sec write speeds right here and now. It gives great compatibility to other devices, like laptops, tablets, portable hard drives, televisions, printers, etc etc etc......


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## unfocused (Dec 31, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> ...the write capacity of CF cards is fine for stills from a 24MP camera with a decent buffer and processors.
> 
> ...I wouldn't be at all surprised to see the 1DX MkII with CF card slots.



I don't know about the 1DX II, but I'd be very surprised if the 5dIV has anything but the same CF and SD card slot configuration it already has. Why fix something that isn't broken?


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## privatebydesign (Dec 31, 2015)

Don Haines said:


> tcmatthews said:
> 
> 
> > The big question is do you think Canon needs to use a faster card technology? CF is not going to get much faster it is already faster than many expected it to get. I do not know if CFast is really the way to go. But I think CF needs to go if they want to do video.
> ...



SD write speeds get hit hard after some use, CF cards perform much better across the spectrum of actual use. SD card write spec is great in theory it just doesn't translate to real world use, however the ubiquity of the format is impressive and very appealing, as Unfocused says, why fix it if it isn't broken? SD cards deliver what 5D series camera owners want so I see no reason for Canon to change.


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## tcmatthews (Dec 31, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > tcmatthews said:
> ...



I believe you meant for that last SD to be a CF.

I would argue that Canons SD implementation has always been broke. In fact it was the primary reason I did not buy a 5D III. At the time it was another $600 for CF cards and I could not live with a ultra slow SD implementation. The 5Ds/5Dsr and 7DII have improved. But the 7DII is still far slower than my Sony A7II when writing to a SD card. (I have not tried the 5Ds/5Dsr they look to have full speed SD UHS-I slots) The cost of CF has also come down so it is not as much as an issue now. I just want to see a full speed SD slot for once. 

I have also never seen the dreaded card slow down with actual use maybe I just to not hit them as hard as some people.


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## privatebydesign (Dec 31, 2015)

tcmatthews said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



No, I meant SD.

The 5D series cameras attract a very broad range of users, the ability to shoot jpeg (or RAW) to the SD card and put that directly into so many devices maintains a functionality I would expect would be missed if it was removed.

Sure Canon should keep up with the specs of the thing, but cameras are not outstripping card development so I see no reason to drop SD from a 5D MkIV, just an upgrade to the newer standards. Certainly dropping CF and SD in that market segment is a no go.


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## tcmatthews (Dec 31, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> *...*
> No, I meant SD.
> 
> The 5D series cameras attract a very broad range of users, the ability to shoot jpeg (or RAW) to the SD card and put that directly into so many devices maintains a functionality I would expect would be missed if it was removed.
> ...



Ok I think that Canon keeping or dropping the CF slot really depends on their targets for the 5D IV. If they are giving a minor boost to resolution or framerate and do not add high quality 4K then there is no need for C-fast. Keeping the CF and SD cards makes a lot of sense. 

The real issue is CF is a mature technology. It is not going to get much if at all faster. Embed systems, lab equipment and photography is about the only reason they are still around. The last thing you want is you camera cards becoming legacy industrial product and have prices rise because of lack of mass market.


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## LookingThroughMyLens81 (Jan 1, 2016)

*My Two Cents....*

Canon will most likely transition all of their high-end DSLRs to SDXC in the not too distant future. Compact Flash will stick around on some models for at least a generation, but it will not be considered "the norm", as it once was. CFast was really built for professional-grade digital video cameras and not digital still cameras and in order to make a DSLR that takes advantage of that memory card format, you'd need a significant boost in battery and internals to utilize the improvements over CF. The I/O for CFast requires significant energy and significant data input to feed it, so anything built around using it would need to have bleeding edge hardware inside, which would be a huge leap beyond any current Canon design, except for the 50MP models, which are a step in the right direction. Canon would have to make a DSLR with a 50MP (or higher-resolution) sensor paired to a multi-core CPU with high-capacity stacked DRAM buffers and a large, heavy-duty battery. That would be a very clunky DSLR. Canon isn't ready to make the big leap into 50MP+ yet, despite their two models, but I expect that will come in the later half of the next decade as technology improves.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jan 1, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> ajfotofilmagem said:
> 
> 
> > So far, it seems certain that 1DX mark II will have two CFast card slot,
> ...



Canon is one of the companies pushing for Cfast and signed on early to the standard. Apparently, they plan to use them, its just a matter of when.

There are no current adapters for Cfast to CF, since they are the same size, a adapter would not fit into the camera slot. Cfast is SATA, so electronics would be involved in as conversion. On the other hand, a cfast adapter for a computer is very easy. A gender reverser is all that is needed to plug into a SATA hard drive connector.


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## pedro (Jan 1, 2016)

Dear all, thanks a lot. That was more than I expected!!! Intresting discussion.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jan 9, 2016)

tcmatthews said:


> I believe it would be best if Canon releases a new 5D with the following
> 
> Full speed SD U-II
> A new card slot (C-fast, XQD)
> ...



Don't be fooled by all those claims for SD. Its slow compared to CF. The tests are done in a manner that most photographers only see once, - with a new blank card. As soon as the card has been used, then those used cells must be erased by a very slow process before they can be written to. That drops the write speed to a tiny fraction of the advertised speed. 

Someone concerned with card speed would do well to avoid SD, or do a low level format frequently and wear out the card sooner.


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## Bennymiata (Jan 9, 2016)

IMHO I think that Canon would lose a lot of sales of both the 1dx2 and 5d4 if they go with cfast only slots.

I for one, have thousands invested in cards, and it would be expensive for me to have to get these very expensive new cards.
It would really make me think long and hard about buying one, unless they have some really killer new features and improvements.

Pros who need multiple cameras, and need to carry numerous cards, would also think twice.

I would be very interested in finding out how many of the new Nikon D5's with the 2 XQD card slots they will sell in comparison to the version with dual CF cards.


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## Soundgeek (Jan 9, 2016)

Isn´t CF much more reliable than SD as it has its own controler? - I never had a a CF Crad crashed but a lot of SD cards got broke - or is that because of the electrical contact points?


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## privatebydesign (Jan 9, 2016)

dilbert said:


> Bennymiata said:
> 
> 
> > IMHO I think that Canon would lose a lot of sales of both the 1dx2 and 5d4 if they go with cfast only slots.
> ...



Why would import time be considered wasted? Can't you or your computer multitask?


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## Don Haines (Jan 10, 2016)

compact flash has been around for a long time. I started using them with a 4 Mbyte card.....

CFast cards are faster. They will eventually make CompactFlash obsolete as there is no compelling reason to stay with it other than to use existing cards.....

SD cards are also here to stay. The UHS-2 variant is faster than Compact Flash and in a much smaller form factor. For versatility, it is the standard. You can pull the card out of your camera and stick it in a laptop, a tablet, a printer, a tv, a portable hard drive......


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## LookingThroughMyLens81 (Jan 13, 2016)

Soundgeek said:


> Isn´t CF much more reliable than SD as it has its own controler? - I never had a a CF Crad crashed but a lot of SD cards got broke - or is that because of the electrical contact points?



Any flash memory media has it's own i/o controller and it's the optimized with secret sauce designs that make up the "premium" product lines of flash memory, such as Sandisk's Extreme series and Lexar's Professional lines. CF was designed for embedded applications and industrial use, so it is far more rugged than SD cards are, which is why it's more reliable. You will find multiple flash memory chips inside any CF card while SD cards usually just have a single chip, making them less expensive and complex to manufacture. Because SD cards usually have a thin - often glued together - plastic shell, I can annihilate any SD card in existence between my thumb and forefinger, but I couldn't do diddly squat to a CF card without use of tools. The apparent successor to SD - XQD - is basically a PCIe version of SDXC with the improvements of CFast that has superior performance and durability compared to SD. However, XQD won't replace SD cards any time soon because most cameras using SD couldn't take advantage of it and would require an expensive transition to XQD due to the higher performing components required to use it, which is why XQD makes an excellent replacement for SD in high-end DSLRs, where SD would be used alongside CF/CFast. Any DSLR using XQD and CFast could be considered "next-gen" if it had a 40MP or greater image sensor. Pair XQD with a high-resolution mirrorless camera design and you'd really see what the tech can do.


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