# Tony & Chelsea: Stupid Terms in Photography



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 5, 2018)

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<p>Well, this made me laugh.</p>
<p>I remember the days of doing intro to photography workshops, and trying to explain these terms logically, at times I made it worse. Much worse.</p>
<p><strong>Chelsea’s thoughts on “What is the field?”</strong> (regarding depth-of-field):</p>
<blockquote><p>“I bet one of you nerds knows and you’re gonna put it in the comments and be really sassy about it, and I’m gonna comment back, with more sass than you can handle.”</p></blockquote>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
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## ahsanford (Feb 5, 2018)

Remember, Tony is a stable genius at all things -- here he is two months before the 5D4 (that everyone and their mother knew was coming) was announced:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDvul84wues&feature=youtu.be&t=9m18s

- A


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 5, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> Remember, Tony is a stable genius at all things -- here he is two months before the 5D4 (that everyone and their mother knew was coming) was announced:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qDvul84wues&feature=youtu.be&t=9m18s
> 
> - A



 I haven't seen anyone that is good at predictions.


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## ahsanford (Feb 5, 2018)

Canon Rumors said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Remember, Tony is a stable genius at all things -- here he is two months before the 5D4 (that everyone and their mother knew was coming) was announced:
> ...



Yes, but how often before the next iPhone comes out _that we all know is coming out_ does someone say "Nope, no iPhone is coming?" 

...and you are not remotely giving yourself enough credit.

- A


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## BeenThere (Feb 5, 2018)

Some terms are just part of the vocabulary that has developed over a long period of time. Newbies are expected to pay their dues and learn these terms so they can converse with the "old hands". At the company I worked for, it was acronyms. They drove me crazy until I finally mastered most of them. Hardly anyone speaks clearly and chat rooms are particularly bad with the acronyms or unfamiliar lingo. This appears to be the price of admission and doesn't seem likely to change anytime soon.


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## slclick (Feb 6, 2018)

Chelsea quibbling over sass.


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## YuengLinger (Feb 6, 2018)

Please replace "Terms" with "Teams," and then we are on to something!


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## scyrene (Feb 6, 2018)

"Depth of field" makes a fair amount of sense! But I agree with a commenter above, that you just have to learn a bit of jargon to get on in this field, as with any other. Mind you, I'm probably not the target audience of this sort of video, the point of which I fail to get.


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## ethanz (Feb 6, 2018)

Go mansplain what depth of field is to her.


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## Macoose (Feb 6, 2018)

Well, I made it to 2:23 and then hit pause. That was enough for me.
I find this pair irritating in general.


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## unfocused (Feb 6, 2018)

scyrene said:


> ...I'm probably not the target audience of this sort of video, the point of which I fail to get.



Entertainment, clicks and views (44,000 as of a few minutes ago). Nothing wrong with that.


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## scyrene (Feb 6, 2018)

unfocused said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > ...I'm probably not the target audience of this sort of video, the point of which I fail to get.
> ...



Well, I guess I do get that. It's just not for me - I enjoy YouTube, but not for that.


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## aceflibble (Feb 6, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> Remember, Tony is a stable genius at all things -- here he is two months before the 5D4 (that everyone and their mother knew was coming) was announced:


Friend of mine had an inside scoop on the then-next Nintendo games console. They knew all the hardware details, they knew the name of it, they knew the games that would be out with it at launch, they knew the launch date, they even knew the time of day it would be officially announced and the first advertising slogan.
They _thought_ they knew the price, too. Turned out the price they had been leaked was slightly wrong by about $50 (or equivalent for each region). On that basis alone, half their readers jumped down their throat and accused them of being a bad journalist, of not knowing what they were talking about, of having made everything up, and they quickly got a reputation for having been "always wrong".

Never mind that they got every single other tiny detail correct. Never mind that they'd been well-respected for years. They got one number wrong and suddenly they're the big dumb idiot running joke of the industry.


Hell, to a lesser extent, I've been there, too. I've gotten plenty of leaks and educated predictions correct; I've gotten hands-on with many camera products months before announcement and always reported on them publicly. I was able to make public that the Canon 24-105 was being discontinued and replaced 18 months before the public acknowledgement from Canon. I gave FujiRumors their (completely accurate) breakdown of the X-T10 and several aspects of the X-Pro2. Then I gave a full breakdown of the X-T2, too, after having handled a pre-production copy... but, not having a lot of time with it, I mixed up the locations of the mini HDMI and USB ports. I said one was above the other, when it was the other way around. Oh, silly me. But hey, that one mix-up was enough that now nobody believes a word I say about Fuji, so, that's fun!

People get predictions wrong all the time, and even the people who do get insider information and leak what-should-be perfectly accurate details can still seemingly get aspects wrong as hardware, software, and everything else can all change slightly before launch. It doesn't mean that person deserves your eyerolling.

In the case of Tony's 5D4 prediction, I understand where he was coming from. _Nobody_ expected the 5D4 to be as mundane as it ended up being. This very site was predicting everything from 24 to 42mp with an APS-C auto-crop mode, bluetooth, 4K recording at twice the frame rate the 5D4 can actually do, etc. Nobody was anticipating it just being a 5D3 with a touchscreen. Did Tony predict incorrectly? Yes, significantly. But did everybody else? Yes. Does he or anybody else deserve your snark? No.


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## Valvebounce (Feb 6, 2018)

Hi Macoose. 
2:23!!!! Man you are patient, I barely got past one minute before I couldn’t take any more, : force me to watch 5 minutes of that and I’ll tell you everything I know!  

Cheers, Graham. 



Macoose said:


> Well, I made it to 2:23 and then hit pause. That was enough for me.
> I find this pair irritating in general.


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## Macoose (Feb 6, 2018)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi Macoose.
> 2:23!!!! Man you are patient, I barely got past one minute before I couldn’t take any more, : force me to watch 5 minutes of that and I’ll tell you everything I know!
> 
> Cheers, Graham.
> ...






You got that right!


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## Macoose (Feb 6, 2018)

I'd also like to add that I don't have a problem with them doing videos like this. I understand that we're all out there trying to make a buck every day in our various endeavors. I wish them good luck.

Macoose


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## scottkinfw (Feb 6, 2018)

Macoose said:


> Well, I made it to 2:23 and then hit pause. That was enough for me.
> I find this pair irritating in general.



You are a better man than I am. I can't stomach those two. Tried it, can't do it to myself.


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## YuengLinger (Feb 6, 2018)

Did they strike out selling timeshares?


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## MrFotoFool (Feb 6, 2018)

Am I the only person here who has never heard the term "exposure triangle"? I know all the others (and actually agree the terms are somewhat illogical), but that is a new one on me - and I have been photographing for thirty years.

They also left out the one term that really, really irritates me. That is using the word "noise" to describe the digital equivalent of grain in film. Noise to me is something I hear, not something I see!


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## AlanF (Feb 6, 2018)

Noise is the standard and commonly used term for random or other variations in any signal or measurement - see https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noise_(signal_processing) - and it is not restricted to sound.
It can vary from the random fluctuations in the number of photons hitting a sensor which causes the noise in digital sensors or the grain in film, which are statistical in nature and become more noticeable when smaller numbers are involved - fewer photons in the dark - to noise in electrical circuits that limit DR and to more complex variations.


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## AndreeOnline (Feb 6, 2018)

Watched about 2 minutes.

This did not make me laugh.


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## Steve Balcombe (Feb 6, 2018)

If you skip to the end, the whole thing turns out to be a commercial for their book. What a surprise. She puts down the "nerds" who can explain what the terms mean, threatening to out-sass them - why would anybody do that? Oh I see, it's because then nobody would need to buy the book.


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## Mikehit (Feb 6, 2018)

MrFotoFool said:


> Am I the only person here who has never heard the term "exposure triangle"? I know all the others (and actually agree the terms are somewhat illogical), but that is a new one on me - and I have been photographing for thirty years.



One of the first things I learned an read about 40 years ago when I picked up my first camera.


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## AcutancePhotography (Feb 6, 2018)

“I bet one of you nerds knows and you’re gonna put it in the comments and be really sassy about it, and I’m gonna comment back, with more sass than you can handle.”


She does not sound like a person I would like meet, no less have a conversation with.


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## pwp (Feb 6, 2018)

What's with all the Tony Northrup bashing? If you don't like it, skip it. There's a million other time wasters available on the internet. While I'm definitely choosy about which of his videos I'll commit time to, I'm choosy about most other stuff too, including an old favorite, CR. 

Get a life! He's built a successful business with a unique style that clearly works for a lot pf people. I'll bet the Tony Bashers mostly lack the commitment and tireless application to _SOMETHING _that Tony clearly has in spades. Good luck to him.

There are some pretty obscure terms in photography. I think the concept is a hoot!

-pw


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## brad-man (Feb 6, 2018)

Mikehit said:


> MrFotoFool said:
> 
> 
> > Am I the only person here who has never heard the term "exposure triangle"? I know all the others (and actually agree the terms are somewhat illogical), but that is a new one on me - and I have been photographing for thirty years.
> ...



Could it have been from _Understanding Exposure_ by Bryan Peterson?


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## Diamir (Feb 6, 2018)

I do like the workd "Stops". In Franch we used to use "cran" which has the same meaning. It comes from the film time and non-automatic gears. The aperture ring had "clicks". Like the cinema lenses. So one click was one stop (or fractional part of one stop).

And the stop is not a way to play with the logarithms, it is a way to forget them. I can imagine the aperture defined as the area of the opening... It was the same for the shutter speed, each "click" gives one stop. This was pretty handy, even in the dark.

We ca throw everithing an developp a new langage. But obvioulsly, even if they use other words to *explain* (and sell books...), they have to know and tell the words everybody uses everyday. Each field of activity has its own jargon. Even if not exact.Photographs are not linguists.


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## MrFotoFool (Feb 6, 2018)

Although I am familiar with Toney and Chelsea by name, I think this is the first video of theirs I have actually watched. Like others it wasn't my cup of tea, but the thing is neither are any other popular Youtube photography personalities. Is being rude or obnoxious or whatever a thing to get popular? Based on how high he shows up in searches, I imagine Jared (Fro Knows Photo) is very popular. I watched two of his short videos and was so sickened by his condescending attitude that I vowed to never click on one again (which I haven't). Kai (when he was still with DigitalRev) was entertaining and actually made sense, but it was hard to stomach his mild profanity and crude sexual innuendos.

Recently I have watched a couple review videos from Dustin Abbott who is the most sensible, respectable and level headed personality I have found.


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## Twiseldorf (Feb 6, 2018)

Useless info from these two folks. Exposure Triangle was one of the first things I learned. It's like a colorwheel, they probably hate that term as well. If they are going to bash terms like Depth of Field, etc. then they should realize that another term will fill its place, and it will likely not make sense to everyone as well. There are lots of examples out there, like Horsepower as it relates to cars, candlepower, treadwear, fahrenheit, or celsius. Volume as it relates to water, or sound, for that matter. Also Sunset, Moonrise, I think these two would be happier if it were called "Earth Spin" or something more literal. Just learn the stuff, and go take some pics!


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 6, 2018)

Macoose said:


> Well, I made it to 2:23 and then hit pause. That was enough for me.



0:00 was enough for me, I wasn't even tempted to click the bait. The first and last Northrup infommercial I watched was on the 5DIII where his 'sports test' was the model (Chelsea, presumably) walking toward him with all the sass and speed of a common garden snail.


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## Refurb7 (Feb 6, 2018)

Tony is the guy who made a whole video claiming that aperture labels on m43 lenses are a fraud because they don't tell you the equivalent depth of field in full frame. So I can't even get to 0:00 for this video.


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## Valvebounce (Feb 6, 2018)

Hi Neuro. 
That is know as learning from experience! I shall never click another link that I recognise as being to their site so my next limit will be 0 too! 
For those complaining about bashing or hating, I don’t hate these two, I dislike this type of trash video whoever makes it and would bash any of them having been directed towards them!  Successful money-making format or not I find this type of format to be low brow insult laden junk. 

Cheers, Graham. 



neuroanatomist said:


> Macoose said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I made it to 2:23 and then hit pause. That was enough for me.
> ...


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## Sporgon (Feb 6, 2018)

Perhaps the thread title should have been

Stupid Terms in Photography: Tony & Chelsea


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## reef58 (Feb 6, 2018)

I think you have to appreciate a bit of sarcasm and hyperbole to appreciate the video. Not one of their best, but not meant to be taken completely seriously either. Some folks just don't like T&C


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## SkynetTX (Feb 6, 2018)

I don't think this video was funny in any way. They say there are stupid terms in photography. So what? Probably you could say that a zoom lens' angle of view can be set between 20° 12' and 30° 24' but isn't it more simple to say that the focal length can change between 10 and 18 mm? Yes, exposure time could be used instead of shutter speed but the exposure time depends on the speed of the shutter, in other words how long will it remain open. And what is the problem with depth of field? It's the range of acceptable sharpness. Isn't DoF easier to remember then RoAS? So, if you want to take good photos, learn the terms, learn the relation among them, learn to use your camera, then go out and shoot. And nevermind if the terms you've learned are stupid.


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 6, 2018)

reef58 said:


> I think you have to appreciate a bit of sarcasm and hyperbole to appreciate the video.



I have a deep appreciation for sarcasm and hyperbole. I just can’t abide idiots.


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## ahsanford (Feb 6, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> reef58 said:
> 
> 
> > I think you have to appreciate a bit of sarcasm and hyperbole to appreciate the video.
> ...



I'll temper that and say that I prefer a different flavor of sarcasm and hyperbole. I'll take Kai over these two all day.

- A


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## slclick (Feb 6, 2018)

How does success equate respect? It might but it's not a slam dunk. Take a look at any current political leaders.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 6, 2018)

Man.... some of you took this way too seriously. 

I think Tony & Chelsea are the only "big name" (891,000 subscribers) personalities in photography that I've never had an interaction with. Maybe that's because this is the first thing (and likely last) I've shared of theirs.


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## bhf3737 (Feb 6, 2018)

I have nothing against them and I guess they are doing whatever they can do for living and nothing is wrong with that. I am entitled to have my preferences and the contents they provide is not part of my favorite things, anyway.

Just wanted to make a point that if you are an educator (i.e. producing contents, writing books, etc.) you should try to explain the difficult terms, jargon and concepts (aka. ontology of the domain) in an easy way for the average viewers/followers of your work rather than dismissing them all together and try to reinvent the wheel!! Dismissing does not educate, it adds to more confusion and leaves the door open for speculation.


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## PhotoGenerous (Feb 6, 2018)

So much hate in here! This is a single video meant to highlight how confusing the terms are, not a video to explain the terms. They have plenty those. And they're right that these don't make a lot of sense to beginners. It's like learning another language when trying to understand what to look for in a lens. I don't watch their videos all that often, but I enjoyed this.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 6, 2018)

PhotoGenerous said:


> So much hate in here! This is a single video meant to highlight how confusing the terms are, not a video to explain the terms. They have plenty those. And they're right that these don't make a lot of sense to beginners. It's like learning another language when trying to understand what to look for in a lens. I don't watch their videos all that often, but I enjoyed this.



That's why I posted it. When I taught intro to photography classes/workshops, a lot of these terms confused the heck out of people. I usually did an awful job of explaining them.


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## brad-man (Feb 6, 2018)

I could be wrong, but I'm sensing a little bias in some of the replies. Perhaps the conversation could be steered in a more constructive direction with some expert commentary. Where's Kenny when you need him? Perhaps if we put a _Donate_ button at the end of this thread...


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## Don Haines (Feb 7, 2018)

I just found it annoying and stopped watching it......


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## slclick (Feb 7, 2018)

I don't think the negative comments you're reading are based upon this video. Tony has a history of making dubious claims and statements which rub many the wrong way. Why? Well, facts often get in the way and that doesn't make for good youtubing. Folks here for the most part are knowledgeable enough to debunk his viewpoints and true while they aren't a typical representation of the general photography population, it was put up on the forum and therefore dissected. Myself I don't see them as an education tool...it seems they aim their vlog at the prosumer/intermediate user and videos like this are filler to keep entries regular. On the opposite ends of the spectrums you could watch Julianne Kost for straight forward learning and Kai for ridiculous hijinx. Tony and Chelsea fall somewhere in the middle.


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## 9VIII (Feb 7, 2018)

Canon Rumors said:


> ...this is the first thing (and likely last) I've shared of theirs.



Good, the video was nothing but a promotion for their “books” that they use to scam beginners out of their money.
There’s a sucker born every minute and Tony has every right to ask for people’s money, but there’s no way anyone with more than a passing knowledge of photography should be interested in anything they do.

Next time you see Tony say something amusing, just take it as inspiration to spend five minites and write your own “beginner’s guide” so that you can get some of that effort free money that Tony has become so good at collecting.


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## PhotoGenerous (Feb 7, 2018)

Next time I hear them say something amusing... I'll just be amused by it and move on as soon as they start advertising their book like I did with this video. It's like half the people in here are in a competition to say that they hate this pair more than anyone else.


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## YuengLinger (Feb 7, 2018)

I still say they might try to sell my wedding guests a timeshare property, were they to come as wedding photographers.


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## 9VIII (Feb 7, 2018)

PhotoGenerous said:


> Next time I hear them say something amusing... I'll just be amused by it and move on as soon as they start advertising their book like I did with this video. It's like half the people in here are in a competition to say that they hate this pair more than anyone else.



It's a ritual as much as a sport, kind of like Cricket.
(Disclaimer: I've never played Cricket and I know next to nothing about it other than that it's really old).

The only reason we aren't getting this fired up about Ken Rockwell anymore is that the Internet has moved to a different medium and KR didn't keep up with the times.
Tony is still getting off easy in comparison.


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## pwp (Feb 7, 2018)

Canon Rumors said:


> Man.... some of you took this way too seriously.
> .......


+1


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## zim (Feb 7, 2018)

Canon Rumors said:


> Man.... some of you took this way too seriously.



+2


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## arthurbikemad (Feb 7, 2018)

zim said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > Man.... some of you took this way too seriously.
> ...



-2


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## stevelee (Feb 7, 2018)

Mikehit said:


> MrFotoFool said:
> 
> 
> > Am I the only person here who has never heard the term "exposure triangle"? I know all the others (and actually agree the terms are somewhat illogical), but that is a new one on me - and I have been photographing for thirty years.
> ...



Deaths from exposure are twice as common in men as in women. I think both show a gradual upward trend over time.


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## YuengLinger (Feb 8, 2018)

Thread says, "Lock me, please, for mercy's sake, please lock me!" :-[


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 8, 2018)

ahh well.


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