# The Big Megapixel Body in 2013?



## Canon Rumors Guy (Apr 18, 2012)

```
<div name="googleone_share_1" style="position:relative;z-index:5;float: right; /*margin: 70px 0 0 0;*/ top:70px; right:120px; width:0;"><g:plusone size="tall" count="1" href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/04/the-big-megapixel-body-in-2013/"></g:plusone></div><div id="fb_share_1" style="float: right; margin: 0 0px 0 10px;"><a name="fb_share" type="box_count" share_url="http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/04/the-big-megapixel-body-in-2013/" href="http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php">Share</a></div><div><script src="http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/connect.php/js/FB.Share" type="text/javascript"></script></div><div class="tweetmeme_button" style="float: right; margin-left: 10px; margin-bottom: 70px;"><a class="tm_button" rel="&style=normal&b=2" href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/04/the-big-megapixel-body-in-2013/"></a></div>
<strong>More Pixels…


</strong>There are various reports that Canon won’t release the big 35  mp camera until 2013. I’ve even heard the suggestion they’ll come in at 40mp .  Canon does feel that their 20mp range for DSLRs is the best course for the moment. Customer demand will probably dictate whether or not they get into the big megapixel market. I do feel it’s inevitable that it’ll happen in the next 12 months.</p>
<p>There’s a big price gap between the 5D Mark III at $3500 and the 1D X at $6799 that I think needs filled. APS-H is dead, so something has to go in there around $4500-$5000. Judging by the initial sales of the 5D Mark III, people are willing to pay a lot of money for high end digital SLRs.</p>
<p><strong>Source: [<a href="http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_3d.html" target="_blank">NL</a>]</strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


----------



## Bombsight (Apr 18, 2012)

Chances are ... 2014 ... with Canons history.


----------



## Shnookums (Apr 18, 2012)

I'd like Canon to improve DR more than resolution.

Yes, resolution is nice, high ISO is nice, DR is nice... We can't have everything in one camera for sure.


----------



## Etienne (Apr 18, 2012)

Big megapixel is fine. Unfortunately it comes with:

Slower performance (fps, file transfer, editing)
More high ISO noise
High storage space consumption


----------



## cfibanez (Apr 18, 2012)

Announced in 2014 for release in 2015. Delayed till 2016.


----------



## JR (Apr 18, 2012)

That would make sense. I vote for announced in 2012 but available in 2013 :-\

I would get such camera to complement the 1DX personally.


----------



## Stu_bert (Apr 18, 2012)

Sony will release a high MP and therefore Canon will not be the only one without such a system.

I think H1 2013 will be shipping date, I think Q4 it will be announced (with their current track record). Might even be earlier if they think there is a significant exodus elsewhere....


----------



## prestonpalmer (Apr 18, 2012)

cfibanez said:


> Announced in 2014 for release in 2015. Delayed till 2016.



haha. totally.


----------



## sailingsilkeborg (Apr 18, 2012)

"There’s a big price gap between the 5D Mark III at $3500 and the 1D X at $6799 that I think needs filled. APS-H is dead, so something has to go in there around $4500-$5000."

I don't follow the suggestion that Canon could price a high megapixel DSLR at $4500-$5000, when a 36 MP Nikon is available at $2999. There must be more to the thinking on what the Canon would offer, besides high MP.


----------



## Vertvorb (Apr 18, 2012)

The comment about people are willing ro pay more, this might be true with the 5D mark iii but I dont think most people were happy with having to pay that premium price and it would pay for Canon to have happy customers. Before I purchased mine I did think about switching to Nikon due to Canon's high pricing.


----------



## pharp (Apr 18, 2012)

"Judging by the initial sales of the 5D Mark III, people are willing to pay a lot of money for high end digital SLRs."

Do you have actual sales figures? I was wondering if this was* really* selling well or if the normal initial sales spike of a new model and the limited supply just made it seem so. It appears the mk iii is slightly better, but I think they blew it with the pricing. By all accounts sales of conventional DSLRS are on the decline, is this just another nail in the mirrored DSLR coffin if you lose the serious enthusiast? I'm guessing something like the new Olympus OM-D is the future - with a FF sensor - drool.


----------



## well_dunno (Apr 18, 2012)

If the big mp body is coming in 2013 then I wonder what entry level FF they would release this autumn to replace 5D mark II. My initial guess was that another sensor was on its way and 1Ds mark IV and the crippled entry level FF would share it. If not, which sensor would the 5d mark II replacement have? The one from 1DX or 5D mark III? Then to cripple they use digic 5 and one point AF in a cam with bad ergonomics run on AA batteries?  I kid, I kid... Curious news though...

Cheers!


----------



## lol (Apr 18, 2012)

I see the "high MP" model could go in one of two places:
1: D800 direct competitor. Just drop a higher MP sensor into the 5D3 body, with resulting hit in fps rate. That's it. Should be priced in ball park of D800/5D3. They can not justify a price hike just for this.
2: 1Ds features in 5D body. Not only jack up the MP, but throw in the 1D X AF. Put in more processors and keep the fps rate higher. Then charge more for it.

And just to be greedy, I want #2 for the price of #1. So I expect to be offered #1 for the price of #2, look at the D800 and remember why I picked Canon in the first place: the affordable Nikon tele-zooms really suck!


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 18, 2012)

Etienne said:


> Big megapixel is fine. Unfortunately it comes with:
> 
> Slower performance (fps, file transfer, editing)
> More high ISO noise
> High storage space consumption



The problem is how will it look good compared to the D800?

If they are aiming to trump the D800 on MP that could mean as you say, really large files, but poor body performance. The D800 manages 5fps and 6fps modes which makes it more than just a pure studio/landscape cam. It has tons of DR.

How will a Canon at say 42MP with say 3fps and no fast crop modes (since Canon doesn't do that, why?, who knows, just because), probably 1.5-3 stops worse dynamic range, probably no cropped video mode so we are back to moire/aliasing again (since Canon doesn't do cropped 1920x1080 video modes for the most part, why?, just because) for $1500-2000 more than a D800 sell? Even at the same price you'd be giving up fps and DR all jsut for 6 more MP? What do you get? Sluggish performance compared to what the D800 can do in 1.2x and 1.5x modes. Much less dynamic range (unless Canon for some silly reason held the good stuff back from the 5D3). Are 6MP, once you are so high already as 36MP worth $1500-2000 more at the cost of everything else?? I don't see that other than for a very select subset of landscape and some studio people where every last bit of resolution matters more than anything, more than even DR. How can they charge the price talked about in the rumor?

I'd rather hear them talk about close or near to D800 resolution but increasing the DR and keeping the 5D3 body performance, 6fps (at the absolute least in crop modes, but if the speed only comes in the crop modes, then again how do you sell it for anything more than the 5D3 when it is then basically just the D800 but a year later? maybe if they go to town with the video I guess.). 

The real problem is simply that they didn't fix up the 5D3 low ISO DR (and give it a sharp 1.6x crop 2x2 c30-like sampled video mode), they talked about keeping MP low to focus on other IQ aspects only they didn't seem to succeed and ended up with worse low ISO IQ than the higher MP cams, if they had just done that, fixed up the low ISO DR, then you'd have had a real all round camera, nice 6fps even at FF, top AF, good low ISO DR to give landscape shots a boost compared to the 5D2, only reach for wildlife would be missing and that might come in the 5D4 in a few years. Without the DR boost though they left the landscape shooter not getting a lot compared to the 5D2. It's still a very, very good all around camera, but they did leave the gaping hole of not one thing better for low ISO stills, slow shooting.

Anyway it seems hard to see how they will charge closer to 1DX pricing for this with the D800 hanging out there if it will just be some slow camera with 40MP and nothing more to it. I'd aim the MP a bit to the lower side of high and maintain the body performance myself and focus on dynamic range too.

I'd take the 5D3 in a second over a 3D that was 40MP, 3fps, had the same DR as the 5D3.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 18, 2012)

sailingsilkeborg said:


> "There’s a big price gap between the 5D Mark III at $3500 and the 1D X at $6799 that I think needs filled. APS-H is dead, so something has to go in there around $4500-$5000."
> 
> I don't follow the suggestion that Canon could price a high megapixel DSLR at $4500-$5000, when a 36 MP Nikon is available at $2999. There must be more to the thinking on what the Canon would offer, besides high MP.



exactly and if it went to higher MP than the D800 then it would be slower and thus less general purpose than the D800 too, will people pay $1500-2000 more for a few extra MP if fps and DR are worse and video is no better?


----------



## Stephen Melvin (Apr 18, 2012)

If they want to price it higher than the 5D Mk III, they'll need to put two DIGIC processors in it and make the SD slot UHS compliant. If they do that and keep the Mk III's speed, it should sell reasonably well. Now if they can fix the low ISO pattern noise and increase the DR, it will sell very well indeed.


----------



## BDD (Apr 18, 2012)

I would be okay with a high MP version of the 5D3, with a hit in the FPS...BUT I don't want to loose stops in native ISO. If we loose one and the max native ISO is 12,800 I'd be content. Can Canon pull this off? As it is I think the 5D3 will be my next DSLR..AFTER Canon comes up with a fix for the light/exposure change problem and eliminates it from future production cameras.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Apr 18, 2012)

Stephen Melvin said:


> If they want to price it higher than the 5D Mk III, they'll need to put two DIGIC processors in it and make the SD slot UHS compliant. If they do that and keep the Mk III's speed, it should sell reasonably well. Now if they can fix the low ISO pattern noise and increase the DR, it will sell very well indeed.



if they did that and kept it 5D3-sized and gave it the cropped video mode without aliasing/moire than yeah that would something indeed. I can't see them doing it (and if they get much above 36-38MP it might not even be possible, maybe even 30-32MP could be the limit if they also maintain a small body, hard to say) but it would be something.


----------



## ukasheq (Apr 18, 2012)

And copying RAW photos from card will take milion minutes...


----------



## StORM48 (Apr 18, 2012)

Canon Rumors said:


> There’s a big price gap between the 5D Mark III at $3500 and the 1D X at $6799 that I think needs filled. APS-H is dead, so something has to go in there around $4500-$5000. Judging by the initial sales of the 5D Mark III, people are willing to pay a lot of money for high end digital SLRs.


What?!!! 

Jesus Christ!

The best way to inform Canon that we will pay them as much as they want, is bidding prices like this, as we did for 5d mk3 past years, which is why it costs so much now. Don't think that Canon staff don't follow forums. They do. Oh yes, they do!

$5000 for high-res body?! That would be insane! $3500 for mk3 are already excessive compared to what d800 offers. Anything above that would be just idiotic for non-1D(s) body.


----------



## lol (Apr 18, 2012)

ukasheq said:


> And copying RAW photos from card will take milion minutes...


About time you got a USB 3 card reader perhaps. Even my older CF cards can sustain over 60MB/s which is in the ball park of one raw per second of a hypothetical higher MP Canon camera.


----------



## hhelmbold (Apr 18, 2012)

Bombsight said:


> Chances are ... 2014 ... with Canons history.



No... it will be announced in 2013 and "rushed" released end of 2014


----------



## briansquibb (Apr 18, 2012)

Roll out the APS-H again to resolve the issues ;D ;D ;D


----------



## Caps18 (Apr 18, 2012)

If it is in the 40-50+MP range and a medium format sensor...then it might be worth upgrading...

I better start saving now though.


----------



## Pierogo (Apr 18, 2012)

What I want most is image quality. I don't need video capability, so if that's adding a significant amount of money to the price of the camera, leave it out. If a price gap needs filling, I'd prefer to see Canon going between the 7D and the 5D3, like where the 5D2 is, assuming the 2 is going to be put out to pasture.
No video, just stills.


----------



## Astro (Apr 18, 2012)

> so something has to go in there around $4500-$5000



nikon offers a 36 MP camera for under 3000$ and canon for 5000$.... well... i don´t know about you but that idea sucks.


----------



## zim (Apr 18, 2012)

Take a 1Dx spec camera and up the MP to say min 36 but probably 40 I wonder what that would give the top fps to be? and who knows maybe they've throttled the digic processors back a little knowing the road map. That would give them the reason for the high price as Nikon et al would not have a direct equivalent. If there's going to be one it won't be a 5D derivative would be my guess


----------



## Daniel Flather (Apr 18, 2012)

Where is the camera sans mirror, 24*36, 50mm f1.8, eh?


----------



## Hulk (Apr 18, 2012)

Vertvorb said:


> Before I purchased mine I did think about switching to Nikon due to Canon's high pricing.



But you didn't switch, which demonstrates Canon was right.


----------



## psolberg (Apr 19, 2012)

2013 is being optimistic. If there is one, it will be the 1DsMKIV and it will upwards of 7 thousand bucks if the prior one was any indication. As far as full frame goes, I think canon is done with the 5DmkIII and any increases in MP will have to wait 4 years for the MK4. 



zim said:


> Take a 1Dx spec camera and up the MP to say min 36 but probably 40 I wonder what that would give the top fps to be? and who knows maybe they've throttled the digic processors back a little knowing the road map. That would give them the reason for the high price as Nikon et al would not have a direct equivalent. If there's going to be one it won't be a 5D derivative would be my guess


honestly who gives a crap what the fps are. if you're shooting in studio or landscape scenarios (the audience for a big mp body), 4-5 fps is more than enough.



Astro said:


> > so something has to go in there around $4500-$5000
> 
> 
> 
> nikon offers a 36 MP camera for under 3000$ and canon for 5000$.... well... i don´t know about you but that idea sucks.



+1 . the OP's gap is pointless to fill. If canon has a gap to fill is the 2-3K gap  I disagree with CR's take that people will pay more. Many are locked in to the lens system for now. Rip them off constantly with more overpriced glass and bodies and things may turn from a small trickle of migrants to an exodus away from the brand.



Caps18 said:


> If it is in the 40-50+MP range and a medium format sensor...then it might be worth upgrading...
> 
> I better start saving now though.



it would require brand new lenses and very expensive to say the least. canon will never get into the medium format arena.


BDD said:


> I would be okay with a high MP version of the 5D3, with a hit in the FPS...BUT I don't want to loose stops in native ISO. If we loose one and the max native ISO is 12,800 I'd be content. Can Canon pull this off? As it is I think the 5D3 will be my next DSLR..AFTER Canon comes up with a fix for the light/exposure change problem and eliminates it from future production cameras.



that's just silly. the audience for such camera is not those that care about crappy high ISO images done under crappy light with crappy dynamic range that is associated with high ISO values. the audience for this camera are light lovers. people that shoot in studio or landscape with buckets of beautiful light and not the inside of their closets with the lights off. I'd much rather see LOWER ISO capabilites. how about ISO25 for a change and 14+ stops of DR. The D800 already proved that downsampling big MP to 22MP more than matches what the 5DmkIII can do in low light, so who cares for more? If so, don't buy it. Stupid high ISO can be hand with the 1DX if that's your boat. I see no reason that every camera has to chase the ISO values as if that was the only priority.
http://mansurovs.com/nikon-d800-review#iso_performance
(click next at the bottom to see the D800 match the 5DmkIII at high ISO)

The religion of low light is honestly getting old. We need to move past that. this is after all PHOTOGRAPHY, not DARKography.


----------



## pdirestajr (Apr 19, 2012)

Does this mean all the people that switched to the D800 are gonna switch back in a year? Oh the ever evolving world of technology we live in. So much wasted money.


----------



## tron (Apr 19, 2012)

cfibanez said:


> Announced in 2014 for release in 2015. Delayed till 2016.



;D ;D ;D


----------



## itsnotmeyouknow (Apr 19, 2012)

psolberg said:


> that's just silly. the audience for such camera is not those that care about crappy high ISO images done under crappy light with crappy dynamic range that is associated with high ISO values. the audience for this camera are light lovers. people that shoot in studio or landscape with buckets of beautiful light and not the inside of their closets with the lights off. I'd much rather see LOWER ISO capabilites. how about ISO25 for a change and 14+ stops of DR. The D800 already proved that downsampling big MP to 22MP more than matches what the 5DmkIII can do in low light, so who cares for more? If so, don't buy it. Stupid high ISO can be hand with the 1DX if that's your boat. I see no reason that every camera has to chase the ISO values as if that was the only priority.
> http://mansurovs.com/nikon-d800-review#iso_performance
> (click next at the bottom to see the D800 match the 5DmkIII at high ISO)
> 
> The religion of low light is honestly getting old. We need to move past that. this is after all PHOTOGRAPHY, not DARKography.



+1 I use my MK III as my ultrawide with a 14L and 16 - 35L and as a back up for my Pentax 645D. The maximum ISO for the 645D is 1600. It is the highest ISO for any current medium format camera. I shoot predominantly landscape and the Pentax is brilliant for that with it's 9 point AF which is also more than any other medium format camera. Hassie and the Leica S2 have a single point AF system. 

On the Canon front, I'd like to see a slightly higher mp and I was disappointed that the mk III 'only' had 22.3. I think somewhere around 30mp and really nailing everything down would be the way to go, not to create a 40mp on a 35mm sensor to compound other issues further. As it is, I am enjoying using the mk III, and it is my main camera at the moment as my Pentax is in Japan being fixed after it had an argument with a paving slab. (it didn't lose it badly, just a few bruises). 

The new higher mp camera for me needn't have anything above say 3200 ISO. I rarely use anything around this. But by maximum 3200, I mean completely clean 3200. In my vision it would be a landscaper's camera. The only thing I have used high ISO for are a few urban scenes and macro where a tripod would have been of no assistance.


----------



## takoman46 (Apr 19, 2012)

StORM48 said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > There’s a big price gap between the 5D Mark III at $3500 and the 1D X at $6799 that I think needs filled. APS-H is dead, so something has to go in there around $4500-$5000. Judging by the initial sales of the 5D Mark III, people are willing to pay a lot of money for high end digital SLRs.
> ...



I suppose any type of product manufacturer would pay some attention to what their consumers write on forums since forums are a good source for market research.

I would think that a high megapixel body priced around the $5000 price point would mean that it would be a high megapixel body that would have massive advantages over Nikon's D800. I'd expect that it would be a full size body probably dubbed "1~something". That would justify the price point. It's entirely possible for it to be a compact body but thinking about $5000... it would make more sense to be an addition to Canon's flagship line.

Lastly, I don't think $3500 was excessive in comparison to Nikon's D800. Granted the 5D Mark III and Nikon D800 are directed towards completely different markets. I don't get why everyone is still trying to justify one camera over the other... For me, coming from a 5D Mark II; I am very pleased with the improvements in the Mark III and can understand why there was a price jump. I'm not directing this at you StORM48, but as far as I know, everyone who bought a Mark III, including myself feels that it was worth it. In other words I wouldn't trade the performance of the Mark III for the megapixels of a D800 just to save $500. So if Canon is using the 1Dx and 5D Mark III as their bench mark for performance combined with image quality, then I can totally understand how a possible high megapixel body might cost $5000. I might not want to buy it for $5000 since I don't need more than what is currently available from Canon... but I would be able to rationalize the increase in price.


----------



## tron (Apr 19, 2012)

StORM48 said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > There’s a big price gap between the 5D Mark III at $3500 and the 1D X at $6799 that I think needs filled. APS-H is dead, so something has to go in there around $4500-$5000. Judging by the initial sales of the 5D Mark III, people are willing to pay a lot of money for high end digital SLRs.
> ...



But you must understand! Canon has many expenses. Do you know how much it costs to forget to seal the top LCD so as to allow the light to reach the metering sensor in a way that it may or it may not affect the metering so as to create a controversy? (see other threads) ;D


----------



## DarkKnightNine (Apr 19, 2012)

I think it's inaccurate to say people are willing to pay a lot of money for a high end DSLR. I think most people were disgusted by the price of the 5D Mark III but needed something better than the AF in the 5D Mark II so sadly we bent over and took it :'( . Willing had nothing to do with it.


----------



## takoman46 (Apr 19, 2012)

DarkKnightNine said:


> I think it's inaccurate to say people are willing to pay a lot of money for a high end DSLR. I think most people were disgusted by the price of the 5D Mark III but needed something better than the AF in the 5D Mark II so sadly we bent over and took it :'( . Willing had nothing to do with it.



Well if you did buy it, then wouldn't that be considered "willing" to spend the money on it? Nobody was forcing you right? I can see that you may have felt cornered in order to keep up with the market. But it was ultimately each person's decision right?


----------



## Martin (Apr 19, 2012)

Canon had few years to develop an improved sensor for 5d3. It is almost the same as 5d2 in major and important aspects, no big step forward in this regard. If canon is not able to develop a 22mp sensor with ie. better DR, personally I dont think they are able to catch a good quality at 40 mp. It seems there is a strong limitation for canon engineers otherwise they would deliver something really better at 22 mp. If it is possible to create a sensor with 36mp with a DR over 14ev it should be possible for 22 mp as well, isn't it?


----------



## Neeneko (Apr 19, 2012)

psolberg said:


> that's just silly. the audience for such camera is not those that care about crappy high ISO images done under crappy light with crappy dynamic range that is associated with high ISO values. the audience for this camera are light lovers. people that shoot in studio or landscape with buckets of beautiful light and not the inside of their closets with the lights off.



This was my general thought.

Such a new body appeals to me, I rarely shoot at above 200ISO. Most of the 'down sides' people list don't really impact me, but the high MP is appealing.


----------



## D.Sim (Apr 19, 2012)

High megapix, 2 Digic 5 Processors, 2 CF card slots - none of that CF + SD nonsense  - with an option to write alternate shots to alternate cards when shooting in burst (higher buffer/frame rate?), Slightly simpler AF?, higher DR, Flip down AA filter (!)


----------



## Wideopen (Apr 19, 2012)

cfibanez said:


> Announced in 2014 for release in 2015. Delayed till 2016.



With the way the 5d mark iii rolled out i wouldnt be suprised if its backordered till 2017


----------



## pj1974 (Apr 19, 2012)

Well, seeing as Nikon have *just * released their ENTRY level D3200 as a 24 MP APS-C camera, I believe this might send some (more?) ripples Canon's way regarding 'Big Megapixel' cameras (whether APS-C or FF). :

See http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/04/19/Nikon-D3200-with-WiFi-Option

Not that I require a high megapixel count to keep me happy (I currently have 18 MP with my 7D, and 18 MP is sufficient for me, still very handy for cropping, etc). Give me more improvements in image quality (higher DR, less noise at all ISOs, etc). 

Let's see! I'm still loving photography... spending lots of time outdoors with my 7D capturing things from birds to sunsets to friends to macros to landscapes with my range of quality lenses.

Interesting times..... Regards all

Paul 8)


----------



## seta666 (Apr 19, 2012)

The thing is that Sony sensors (so nikon and Pentax too) have put canon sensor technology to same in the last few years. 
I am sure 5D mkIII will score less in DR and ISO once those results are published in DXOmark. And I am just talking about sensors, not the whole of the camera. Some people may argue thay DXOmark only review RAW sensor data which in my opinion these days is as important it was to have good film before; Sony sensors sponsor now the best " digital film " while canon sell cameras with cheap " no brand" film.

I own a 5D mkII and one thing the 5D lack is DR, I wish it had 1-2 stops better performance (As those APS-C Sony NEX cameras). No need to talk about the 18 mpx APS-C sensor, which seems a toy compared to those sony's.

I am not going to swith to nikon because so far the best full frame camera for macro is the EOS 5D mkII (Also most APS-C digic 4 and MkIII I guess) because of the way silent live view is implemented but Sony nex cameras behave the same now, there is even a NEX to EOS adapter (400$)so MP-E 65mm can be used on a NEX

If Canon release a high pixel count FF camera with 5D ergonomics I guess it will be priced like the 5D, otherwise many people will switch to Nikon

Regards
Javier


----------



## briansquibb (Apr 19, 2012)

Is it now official that aps-h is dead or is that an assumption?


----------



## caruser (Apr 19, 2012)

takoman46 said:


> Granted the 5D Mark III and Nikon D800 are directed towards completely different markets. I don't get why everyone is still trying to justify one camera over the other... For me, coming from a 5D Mark II; I am very pleased with the improvements in the Mark III and can understand why there was a price jump. [...] In other words I wouldn't trade the performance of the Mark III for the megapixels of a D800 just to save $500.



It appears that the Nikon (Sony) sensors are delivering significantly better dynamic range; for me the price of the 5D3 would be much more acceptable if the sensor wasn't like a generation back in this respect.

The other issue is that I got the 5D2 for landscapes and studio, the best choice for the price at the time; of course the 5D3 doesn't do anything worse than the 5D2, but compared to the D800 the situation is suddenly reversed:

The 5D3 is a very well rounded wedding/street/journalist/(sport) camera, and the D800 would be my first choice for landscape and studio. If it weren't for all the Ls in my cupboard...

What I'm seriously wondering: Is the inferior sensor technology just a temporary "one horse pulling ahead, then the other", or is this the first step of Canon being left behind due to inferior engineering and/or less economy of scale compared to Sony.

(To use the analogy of 3D video cards for computers, is Canon a Matrox or 3dfx, or are they an ATI or Nvidia?)


----------



## Canon-F1 (Apr 19, 2012)

nikon just announced a 24 MP aps-c camera.

nikon and canon have truly switched paradigmas in only 1 year....

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/04/19/Nikon-D3200-with-WiFi-Option


----------



## swrightgfx (Apr 19, 2012)

Canon-F1 said:


> nikon just announced a 24 MP aps-c camera.
> 
> nikon and canon have truly switched paradigmas in only 1 year....
> 
> http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/04/19/Nikon-D3200-with-WiFi-Option


I have no doubt that the next Canon APS-C will be less than 24MP. Increments in Canon's smaller sensored devices have been consistent and predictable - I doubt that will change. Megapixels sell bodies, despite that having more resolution and compromising on other things might not be the best solution for photographers. Megapixels sell cameras, as it tends to be the feature people notice first.


----------



## Gcon (Apr 19, 2012)

Canon-F1 said:


> nikon just announced a 24 MP aps-c camera.
> 
> nikon and canon have truly switched paradigmas in only 1 year....
> 
> http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/04/19/Nikon-D3200-with-WiFi-Option



OMG! 24MP in a crop sensor - where will this madness end?! For me personally - the 18MP in the 7D is too much for the amount of noise I like. I prefer my crop bodies in the 12-15MP range. Preferably 12MP like the Nikon D300. It's ironic that their bottom-of-the-line (excluding D3100) is now 24MP crop sensor, and their top-of-the-line is D4 is 16MP full-frame.

As for the topic at hand - I'd love a 35MP full-frame Canon sometime next year. It could shoot 2 frames a second and I'd be fine with that. As long as it has high DR, high color depth, and low noise at base ISO (100) it would become my go-to body for landscapes. I'd still have at least one 5D3 for weddings, events, sports and travel. It wouldn't want to be any more expensive that a 5D3 or D800 though.


----------



## sharka23 (Apr 19, 2012)

I´m sorry to say - so please listen canon staff: the 5dIII is verrrrry disappointing (for me - personally)
and if canon haven´t it´s incredible ts-e 17mm and the ts-e 24mm i would be smiling all day long
with my brand new d800.

so why should I upgrade from my 4years old 5dII to the 5dIII?? because of
the better AF - i don´t need it..
ISO performance - not needed - by the way i would say the 5dIII is not even THAT good!
maybe because of the new on/off switch or the HDR thing....
and that for 3500,- brave, brave, brave

so what has canon given us and for what:
the 1D X : 
sports/press photographer: they will be happy with it indeed !!
for studio: NO
for landscape: NO
for architecture photographer: NO
for fashion/people: NO
for advertising: NO

where do the 5dIII suit better than the 5dII
for wedding: YES (thanks to AF and ISO improvement) ok thats an important market..
for sports/press: yes ... a bit.. thanks to AF
for studio: NO
landscape: NO
architecture: NO
fashion/people: NO
for advertising: NO

canon please wake up and anser !


----------



## swrightgfx (Apr 19, 2012)

sharka23 said:


> I´m sorry to say - so please listen canon staff: the 5dIII is verrrrry disappointing (for me - personally)
> and if canon haven´t it´s incredible ts-e 17mm and the ts-e 24mm i would be smiling all day long
> with my brand new d800.
> 
> ...


This topic isn't specifically about the Mark III. Regardless, Canon did not release it as a replacement for the II, but to run alongside it. There are many wedding photographers, street shooters, semi-pro sports shooters and others that the III makes perfect sense for. They will be the ones who but it, while others may opt for II or go a crop 7D. 

I do agree though that there are gaps Canon still has to fill. If only for the sake of remaining competitive.


----------



## D.Sim (Apr 19, 2012)

sharka23 said:


> I´m sorry to say - so please listen canon staff: the 5dIII is verrrrry disappointing (for me - personally)
> and if canon haven´t it´s incredible ts-e 17mm and the ts-e 24mm i would be smiling all day long
> with my brand new d800.
> 
> ...


I'm sorry to say: Your coming on here and making this your first post, off topic, bad spelling, no sense at ALL, just leaves a bad impression.

If you can't use a camera to shoot a landscape, architecture or ANYTHING, you're a bad photographer. Can the 5D3 do all the above? Yup. Why not?

Why should you upgrade? No one ever told you to upgrade. Do you buy every new body that comes along? 

Back to the topic at hand


----------



## sharka23 (Apr 19, 2012)

I´m a little tired of waiting... and reading rumors for years and years 


but in my eyes and at the moment canon is producing their gear for amateurs and not for professionals!
sorry wedding photographers 
but i agree thats the way to make money...

5dIII "to run alongside with the 5dII" ??
after 4years?
with this "improvements"?
i can´t see this.


the DXO score - which was shown a few minutes - doesnt make me happier


----------



## JR (Apr 19, 2012)

Canon-F1 said:


> nikon just announced a 24 MP aps-c camera.
> 
> nikon and canon have truly switched paradigmas in only 1 year....
> 
> http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/04/19/Nikon-D3200-with-WiFi-Option



It does seem this way. Very interesting indeed. Wile i think canon made the right choice, right now their marketing team must be going nuts that their strategy does not seem to get a lot of praise in several reviews. Whether such review are valid or not like the dxo, they do have an impact on customer perceptioon and maybe customer buying decision...

Hummm...


----------



## PhilDrinkwater (Apr 19, 2012)

sharka23 said:


> I´m sorry to say - so please listen canon staff: the 5dIII is verrrrry disappointing (for me - personally)
> and if canon haven´t it´s incredible ts-e 17mm and the ts-e 24mm i would be smiling all day long
> with my brand new d800.
> 
> ...



I'm sorry to say this, but the post above displays a massive lack of knowledge of the various industries. Both the 1dx and 5diii will be used very well for studio and architecture and advertising and fashion and portraiture. The only real area that the current lineup really doesn't work for is those who would like to make the switch to MF or those who want to print big (usually landscape) or those who have a need to crop massively (but you have to have FANTASTIC lenses for that).

You're under the current marketing spell of MP is everything (and possibly DR is everything). I really wish marketing had never started down this road because people are missing the point totally <sigh>. Most people never print bigger than A3 and Canons FF offerings will print at fantastic quality at those sizes. The D800 also only has 25% more resolution so the difference is not even that much.

However, you do make a valid point that, if you have a 5dii and don't need better AF /dual cards/ etc.. then Canon don't have a new camera for you.

As a final point, the shadow quality at high ISO is a great improvement on the 5d3 compared with the 5d2. I presume you're under the fanboy illusion that high ISO performance has been improving at 2 stops per few years or something (it hasn't...). Currently it seems likely the 5d3 will be around the same as the D4 sensor for high ISO. A pretty good performance.


----------



## preppyak (Apr 19, 2012)

Pierogo said:


> What I want most is image quality. I don't need video capability, *so if that's adding a significant amount of money to the price of the camera, leave it out.* If a price gap needs filling, I'd prefer to see Canon going between the 7D and the 5D3, like where the 5D2 is, assuming the 2 is going to be put out to pasture.
> No video, just stills.


Its not. Video is a firmware thing; it's how the 50D, which was released without a video mode, can record videos. And video makes the cameras sell more, which keeps the cost down. For example, if Canon released the 5dIII with no video, they'd probably have had to charge $5k for it. Because they'd get half as many sales, and they'd have to pass the cost of R&D and manufacturing to half as many people.

A high MP body (already limiting your sales audience) with no video (further limiting) would probably cost as much as a 1DX. Because Canon would be passing on the cost of a new sensor, a new body configuration, etc.


----------



## moreorless (Apr 19, 2012)

sharka23 said:


> I´m a little tired of waiting... and reading rumors for years and years
> 
> but in my eyes and at the moment canon is producing their gear for amateurs and not for professionals!
> sorry wedding photographers
> but i agree thats the way to make money...



I'd say exactly the opposite personally, Canon seems to be targetting the larger professional markets while Nikon is targetting the mainly amature landscape market.

Perhaps one way to go with a camera between the 5D mk3 and the 1DX price wise would be to try and target both the landscape and wildlife markets? take a 5d Mk3 and add in an 40+ MP sensor and an extra processor to keep FPS around 4-6 and also offer an ASPH mode with higher FPS.


----------



## drs (Apr 19, 2012)

I would love to be able to buy a 40MP. Why? Because I do quite some amount of Fisheye shots for 360º/180º HDRI panoramas. With the current max pixel amount these result in a ~7K wide panorama. Which is OK for image based lighting, but not at all for any 3D scenes (reflections, background, etc). 

The 5D is and was the camera that people use on (film) set. Especially Visual Effects Artists. Yes, not the majority of users. However, time is not given on set to shot in rows with a longer lens. I like Canon a lot, but currently Nikon offers something that would make my work better. It is just that simple. I shoot 9 exposures HDRI always with a Promote Control, so dynamic range or noise of a single exposure is not an issue in this very special case of mine. 

It is tempting to think about an extra camera, but to change the brand -- would be extremely painful. I think none is asking Canon to pump up the collection to hi res sensors, but one single model should be available, just to make the offers more complete.

Just my two cents.


----------



## Neeneko (Apr 19, 2012)

D.Sim said:


> I'm sorry to say: Your coming on here and making this your first post, off topic, bad spelling, no sense at ALL, just leaves a bad impression.
> 
> If you can't use a camera to shoot a landscape, architecture or ANYTHING, you're a bad photographer. Can the 5D3 do all the above? Yup. Why not?
> 
> ...



Unless I misunderstood, I think the person was trying to describe what various (recient) cameras are well suited for, not what they can be used for. Pretty much any camera can fill most roles (I just did a set of landscapes using a 300D and a 350D, did the job just fine, within their limits), but lately Canon seems to have focused on a few limited roles and produced cameras that really shine at them and not nearly as much of a bonus for others, esp since their designs have trade offs that fall on the wrong side of balance for some domains.

So it is, I think, less about if cameras exist that can do the job, and more grumpyness at other domains getting all the love. In many ways the 1DX doesn't really feel like a successor to the 1Ds line or at minimal it doesn't represent and advancement of the line to some.

Personally, part of me almost hopes that Canon stays out of the MP race and some medium format company decides to step in and fill the vacuum for cheaper high MP cameras before Nikon does. I imagine though that there are medium format photographers out there drooling at the idea of a DSLR having enough MP to replace one of their backs since, as the video cameras have shown, plenty of people simply love the DSLR form factor.


----------



## sandymandy (Apr 19, 2012)

I like the idea of having a Canon high MP body. I shoot mainly portraits and i think high MP are good for this as u can retouch and resize larger images just much easier than small ones.
And generally downsizing large images gives off more detailed shots and less noticable noise imho.

I also think Canon should make a more clear path regarding their cameras. I have the impression they want to produce some kind of all-in-all-wonder camera thats good for everything. My impression is that just confuses the customers as they only wonder "so which camera i need now???" cuz different models have so much in common.


----------



## Neeneko (Apr 19, 2012)

sandymandy said:


> I like the idea of having a Canon high MP body. I shoot mainly portraits and i think high MP are good for this as u can retouch and resize larger images just much easier than small ones.
> And generally downsizing large images gives off more detailed shots and less noticable noise imho.



I think this is one of the elements people tend to forget in the 'you never print larger then XYZ anyway!'. Higher resolution can really make a difference when doing significant editing, even if gets downsampled for a final image/print. That is one of the reasons medium format is still so popular in product and fashion photography, not because the final images need the resolution, but because it makes using the software easier during the intermediate steps.


----------



## sandymandy (Apr 19, 2012)

Yes but the haters say "why u need 36 MP if u downsize anyway?". Well i think its a BIG advantage being able to downsize much. If it leads to better IQ in the end...who cares? It just makes using the clone stamp a lot easier for example. Which reduces time needed for post processing and so it saves time totally that u can use on something else. Its just an advantage no matter what. 

Still i stick to Canon cuz i just love their primes


----------



## Marsu42 (Apr 20, 2012)

pdirestajr said:


> Does this mean all the people that switched to the D800 are gonna switch back in a year? Oh the ever evolving world of technology we live in. So much wasted money.



I don't think people who switched will come back to Canon simply because Nikon's Sony-backed technology outlook is much more bright than Canon's. Canon does not only lack the hardware edge, but they are not exactly innovative and I'm wondering about the long term future of their ef/dslr system via mirrorless and dedicated video bodies and lenses.



takoman46 said:


> For me, coming from a 5D Mark II; I am very pleased with the improvements in the Mark III and can understand why there was a price jump. I'm not directing this at you StORM48, but as far as I know, everyone who bought a Mark III, including myself feels that it was worth it.



If you're happy I'm sure that Canon is happy, too. But as technology progresses, personally I'd expect improvements without raising the price - look at Intel's cpus: With every iteration the speed and features get better, but the parts directed at their respective markets stay at the same price. And Intel doesn't even have a strong competition - unlike Canon with Nikon. So the 5d4 will be $4000+ or even more considering inflation?



pj1974 said:


> Well, seeing as Nikon have *just * released their ENTRY level D3200 as a 24 MP APS-C camera, I believe this might send some (more?) ripples Canon's way regarding 'Big Megapixel' cameras (whether APS-C or FF).



The question is just what Canon will do about it: Either they try to get more competitive or they'll say "what the heck, people bought the 5d3 anyway" and might concentrate on the dslr premium market while going mirrorless or video-oriented under $1000.


----------



## bycostello (Apr 20, 2012)

always plenty of people willing to pay for the latest gear.... just a shame it won't make them better photographers like they think it will!!


----------



## hutjeflut (Apr 21, 2012)

with lenses topping out in resolution at about 18 MP i dont see the need for higher megapixels other then downscaling for sharpness and maintaining a large image and downscaling for noise reduction wich is rapidly becoming unneeded.
in 5 years time we might see completely noiseless is0 6400 and i cant immagine needing a higher iso even with my cheaper lenses that are mostly F3,5 and F4.


----------



## BDD (Apr 21, 2012)

How is Canon's lens technology not advancing?? I assumed Canon lenses were/are on par with Nikkor. But with a much better choice. Not that I've compared let's say their latest 70-200 f/2.8 version II. 

If Canon does put out a 35-40 MP "5D" all I ask is they continue to give us a reasonable native ISO range so we can also use this camera to show under "low light". Let's say a range of 100-12,800? I'm sure the geniuses at Canon should be able to figure out a way.

As it is the 5D3 will more than suffice as my next DSLR (when I pick one up later this year that is).


----------



## JR (Apr 21, 2012)

hutjeflut said:


> with lenses topping out in resolution at about 18 MP i dont see the need for higher megapixels other then downscaling for sharpness and maintaining a large image and downscaling for noise reduction wich is rapidly becoming unneeded.
> in 5 years time we might see completely noiseless is0 6400 and i cant immagine needing a higher iso even with my cheaper lenses that are mostly F3,5 and F4.



This would be for an apsc sensor if i am not mistaken. So this mean you can resolve up to ~36-38MP on a full frame! Not bad!


----------



## hutjeflut (Apr 21, 2012)

JR said:


> hutjeflut said:
> 
> 
> > with lenses topping out in resolution at about 18 MP i dont see the need for higher megapixels other then downscaling for sharpness and maintaining a large image and downscaling for noise reduction wich is rapidly becoming unneeded.
> ...



if i remember correct thats right  
ahh well maby canon is working on a different way of polishing glass or something like that that makes it possible to get more resolution out of new lenses.
but even then it will take about 8/10 years before all the lenses are replaced in the lineup.
i think its wiser to keep working on noise free images at iso 6400 for the time being and fix all the issues that are there in the video part of the camera.


----------



## bestimage (Apr 22, 2012)

It would be nice to see a big mpx camera soon with improved sensor quality at reasonable price as Nikon did. I had a couple of clients who asked for life size portrait. I am not getting anymore canon gear and will wait for a year or so and see what canon comes up with. If still canon dosent show any breakthrough then it is time to move on.


----------

