# Neutral Density Filters



## Ewinter (Sep 4, 2013)

So, I've recently invested in a 16-35 II. I'm looking to use an ND filter for long exposures, but I'm having trouble settling on one.

I've looked into the lee system, which is obviously awesome, but comes at a price -the big stopper is £99, the holders etc will run to about £120. Not a cheap option! The other Idea was a Hoya Vario ND in 82mm and then step down rings- even more expensive with the filter alone running to about £200.

I've just seen a NiSi filter on amazon. 10 stop coated filter in 82mm for £49.98.
I'm just wondering if this is a good buy- if anyone has experience with these filters or even this brand I'd be really grateful.
Thanks,
Elliot


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## wayno (Sep 4, 2013)

I've been using Cokin Z Pro for awhile now. Very happy with it all.


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## Ewinter (Sep 5, 2013)

Thanks for the reply. 
From what I've seen of the z pro series, it's nearly as expensive as the Lee system here, and certainly I haven't seen any Cokin 10 stop nd filters around.
Also, I found their p filters to be awful
if I was going to go with the holder route I think I'd pay a little more and get lee


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 5, 2013)

Lee is great, but perpetually out of stock - you have to get lucky and act fast. 

For screw in 10-stop, I use an 82mm Schneider Optics (B+W's parent company), and a 77mm B+W. both are very good, but have a slight warming tone. 

Haven't heard of the brand you mention, but putting a cheap filter in front of a good lens isn't optimal.

Stay away from variable NDs - good ones are ok for normal/tele lenses and often moderate wide angles. But a variND is basically a pair of stacked polarizers, and with an ultrawide lens, the uneven polarization you see with a CPL in the sky manifests as a 'Maltese cross' artifact (affecting all shots, not just sky).


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## Cory (Sep 5, 2013)

Can't say I'm much of an expert, yet, but lots of research wrought this:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/824686-REG/Hoya_XD62ND64_62mm_Pro_1_Digital.html


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## wayno (Sep 5, 2013)

Lee is probably a bit better built than the Z Pro but to be honest I've had no issues and I don't use it regularly. The P series is pretty ordinary constructionally but the Z pro is a fair step up in quality.

I don't think you could go too far wrong with Lee or Cokin.


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## Etienne (Sep 5, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> Lee is great, but perpetually out of stock - you have to get lucky and act fast.
> 
> For screw in 10-stop, I use an 82mm Schneider Optics (B+W's parent company), and a 77mm B+W. both are very good, but have a slight warming tone.
> 
> ...



I have a 6-stop B&W, and I was thinking of getting a 4-stop, to get 4, 6, and 10 stops ... Any experience stacking two ND's? Quality still good, or is the 10-stop significantly better?


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 5, 2013)

I wouldn't stack them on a 16-35 II, at least not if they're standard mounts. Two of them will cause mechanical vignetting (assuming you're on FF).


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## mwh1964 (Sep 5, 2013)

I got a B+W MRC 10 stop. Think it works fairly ok. And a lot cheaper than the Lee and probably a lot better than the plastic filters out there.


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## Niterider (Sep 5, 2013)

I'd go with the cokin z filter holder, but not cokin glass. I have only heard bad things. For glass, I would recommend Lee or Singh Ray. Hitech I have heard is good, but dont have any experience with it. It will be a hefty investment initially, but you will be much more happy with it in the long run!


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## SecundumArtemRx (Sep 5, 2013)

I own a 16-35 and bout into the Lee starter kit with a Big Stopper... Take off your UV filter and that thing'll make waves take on a whole new meaning, when they're blurred into submission.

I also own several Singh-Ray graduated and reverse grads. Get the stop down rings and the 4x6 filters. It's the best investment I've made in awhile and friends have noticed that my pix have started to "pop."

Only downside... Yeah. The investment aint cheap, but come on. You're not going to handicap your Ferrari with stock tires from Ford, are you? Buy the nice filters... They're worth it.


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## @!ex (Sep 5, 2013)

Not sure if the 16-35 has a rear filter holder, but I use the 14mmL mkii and a piece of 13 stop kodak wratten gel. It is great because I have no heavy filters or plates to carry around so I am always ready to shoot long exposure and it is a lot cheaper too, and some say the kodak wratten gels are some of the most color neutral filters available. Sometimes they are kinda hard to track down though due to their diminishing role and the downfall of Kodak. Here are a couple shots I've done with this system.




300 Seconds at 13,000 Feet by @!ex, on Flickr




Is Where I Drew Some Blood by @!ex, on Flickr




Road to Eldorado by @!ex, on Flickr




Empty at Rush Hour by @!ex, on Flickr


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## gferdinandsen (Sep 5, 2013)

Ewinter said:


> I've looked into the lee system, which is obviously awesome, but comes at a price -the big stopper is £99, the holders etc will run to about £120. Not a cheap option! The other Idea was a Hoya Vario ND in 82mm and then step down rings- even more expensive with the filter alone running to about £200.




If you can find a Big Stopper for £99 good for you, I just paid USD299 for mine. But supply is very limited and demand is sky high, you know the rest of the story.


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## Marsu42 (Sep 5, 2013)

Ewinter said:


> So, I've recently invested in a 16-35 II. I'm looking to use an ND filter for long exposures, but I'm having trouble settling on one. [...] I've just seen a NiSi filter on amazon. 10 stop coated filter in 82mm for £49.98.



I've recently researched this (and ended up with a Heliopan 10x for €100), so here it goes:

* for cloud blur in daylight 10x isn't enough, get a 16x, also helps for removing moving objects and improves iq since you don't need to use the smallest f

* cheap filters have worse color casts, just don't. 

* you don't need a premium-coated version because a nd is there to stop light (you might get more flare though)

* most important thing: both b+w or heliopan 10x produce color casts due to infrared leakage, if you want to avoid this (it's not that easy to remove in post) get a filter with _* integrated hot mirror ir blocker*_ - it costs more, but with wider lenses than 35mm you cannot stack an ir blocker with the nd filter.


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## paul13walnut5 (Sep 5, 2013)

Varios... not good. 

Especially on UWAs as apart from the polarisation artefacts (even straight polarisers are poor on UWAs) the filter ring depth can cause vignetting.

I have the B+W 10 stop and 6 stop. Pretty good. The 10 stop needs a manual WB and RAW or you get very very severe colour casts. The problem with screw in's is the effect on the viewfinder and live-view. Square filters would seem to be the best way forward.


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## ewg963 (Jul 5, 2014)

@!ex said:


> Not sure if the 16-35 has a rear filter holder, but I use the 14mmL mkii and a piece of 13 stop kodak wratten gel. It is great because I have no heavy filters or plates to carry around so I am always ready to shoot long exposure and it is a lot cheaper too, and some say the kodak wratten gels are some of the most color neutral filters available. Sometimes they are kinda hard to track down though due to their diminishing role and the downfall of Kodak. Here are a couple shots I've done with this system.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Absolutely beautiful pics....


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## Vivid Color (Jul 5, 2014)

Ewinter said:


> So, I've recently invested in a 16-35 II. I'm looking to use an ND filter for long exposures, but I'm having trouble settling on one.
> 
> I've looked into the lee system, which is obviously awesome, but comes at a price -the big stopper is £99, the holders etc will run to about £120. Not a cheap option! The other Idea was a Hoya Vario ND in 82mm and then step down rings- even more expensive with the filter alone running to about £200.
> 
> ...



Dear Elliot, 

I can't address your question about the NiSi filter, but I did a lot of research on the Lee vs. other filter holders before I bought the Lee holder. I bought the Lee holder because it would easily take filters made by other brands. The other holders, by Hitech and Cokin, each had its strong points, but both had a number of reviewers report various issues with some filters from other brands, including the Big Stopper. I wasn't able to verify all of this, but I did not find these issues being reported for the Lee holder--it seemed to take just about any 4x4 or 4x6 filter. Hence my decision to go with the Lee holder and then get filters from whichever other company I chose. FWIW, I do think it is kind of ridiculous to have to pay almost $90 for a filter holder, which in essence is made of plastic (albeit high quality plastic) and some brass screws. But, I can't make one myself and the other holders weren't that much cheaper and, as I noted before, tended to have an issue that would make using other filters difficult to impossible. 

As for availability, the Lee system can be difficult to get and I ordered my holder and Big Stopper from different firms (Amazon and B&H) because of this. (I was fortunate to be on the waiting list for the Big Stopper for only a short period of time.) Since then, another firm that sells all sorts of filters has come to my attention: http://www.2filter.com

2filter seems to generally have Lee filters in stock and at regular (not marked up) prices. I have not used this company yet, but plan to try them in the near future. I found out about this company through the posting of another forum member so perhaps that person or others not the forum could say something about them. The 2filter website says it does have international shipping, although you'd need to check with them on that. 

Good shopping and let us know what you decide to do.

Vivid


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## mustafaakarsu (Jul 5, 2014)

As you give pound prices I assume you live in the UK. You should be able to find it easily in here.
I got some of my Lee system on ebay, they were like new condition and was about £30 cheaper than new price.


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## ScubaX (Jul 6, 2014)

I've used 2filter.com for several Lee purchases. They are very prompt at shipping stuff out and unlike some other stores, they are not gouging customers because of high demand and low availability for Lee products. One of the best things about them is that they have great customer service and backup their products. You can call them and they will discuss anything you want to know about in filters.

Also, the best way to order from them is on the phone, and that's because their website is a COMPLETE DISASTER! There is probably not enough demand in the filter market for them to higher a pro website builder - but they really need one.


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## sengineer (Jul 6, 2014)

Here is a reasonable kit from Formatt Hitech http://www.2filter.com/FormattHitech/Formatt-Hitech-ProStop-IRND-Long-Exposure-Kits.html
I have it but have not used it yet. 2filter is a very good company to deal with, but call their web site does not work for ordering.


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## wopbv4 (Jul 6, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> Ewinter said:
> 
> 
> > So, I've recently invested in a 16-35 II. I'm looking to use an ND filter for long exposures, but I'm having trouble settling on one. [...] I've just seen a NiSi filter on amazon. 10 stop coated filter in 82mm for £49.98.
> ...



Indeed the heliopan 10X produces *significant *color cast


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## lion rock (Jul 6, 2014)

I vouch for 2filters.com as well. Got a Lee Big filter for my 24-70/II, and then a mounting frame and a step down ring for 70-200_2.8II. All well explained to me over the phone patiently. Can't say I haven't had great experience with them.
-r


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## dlleno (Jul 8, 2014)

I ordered my little stopper from the 2filters website and all went well.


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## GMCPhotographics (Jul 8, 2014)

Ewinter said:


> So, I've recently invested in a 16-35 II. I'm looking to use an ND filter for long exposures, but I'm having trouble settling on one.
> 
> I've looked into the lee system, which is obviously awesome, but comes at a price -the big stopper is £99, the holders etc will run to about £120. Not a cheap option! The other Idea was a Hoya Vario ND in 82mm and then step down rings- even more expensive with the filter alone running to about £200.
> 
> ...



I've done a lot of filters in my time and none are truely neutral. Lee's big stopper has a green cast, Hoya's filters have a pink cast and B+W has a copper cast. I choose Heliopan becuase they have a colour cast which looks nicer (a warm brown cast) which helps sunrise / sunset shots by warming them up a bit. But none are truely neutral. Lee resin ND grads have colour casts too, usually a megenta cast which is most noticable on their .9 (3 stop). With most ND's, the higher the density, the higher the colour cast. I tend to prefer a 3 stop and a 6 stop, which I stack a polariser too if I need a greater density. I try to avoid the 9-10 stop filters as then have very strong castes....which is nice for BnW and art toned images though, but not so good for colour! 

The vario ND's are a nice idea but they don't work too well on anything less than 24mm.


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## mro (Jul 8, 2014)

Ewinter said:


> So, I've recently invested in a 16-35 II. I'm looking to use an ND filter for long exposures, but I'm having trouble settling on one.
> 
> I've looked into the lee system, which is obviously awesome, but comes at a price -the big stopper is £99, the holders etc will run to about £120. Not a cheap option! The other Idea was a Hoya Vario ND in 82mm and then step down rings- even more expensive with the filter alone running to about £200.
> 
> ...



Just buy the Lee filters you won't regret it, "buy once, cry once". Sure they are expensive, but you bought an expensive piece of L-glass so why put a subpar filter infront of it? My big stopper has a blue colour cast to it but that is easily fixed in post by adjusting the white balance. Lee are frank with that they have colour cast on the big stopper https://leefilters.uservoice.com/knowledgebase/articles/40152-big-stopper-blue-cast

I haven't noticed any significant (or any at all) colour cast from my Lee grads (hard or soft) or 3-stop filter, like GMCPhotographics talks about. 

Another benefit with going with a square filter system instead of screw-in filters is that you don't need to buy new filters if you want to use them on a different lens that has a different filter diameter. You just buy a new adaptor ring and it is done.

And since you live in the UK finding a retailer for the Lee filters shouldn't be that difficult http://www.teamworkphoto.co.uk, http://www.wexphotographic.com or http://www.robertwhite.co.uk


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## Schruminator (Jul 8, 2014)

I have a couple of Hoya HMC 10 stop screw on filters in various sizes. They do have a slight color cast, but it's easily correctable in post processing. Personally I went towards screw on filters due to the small size and overall convenience as I generally don't have any other filters I tote along on my shoots. 

Anyways, long story short, I'm happy with the Hoyas and the image quality/clarity seems to be pretty darn good (minus the color cast). They do flare pretty well if direct sunlight is hitting the filter at an odd angle-- but you've got to watch out for that with most filters regardless.


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## Peerke (Jul 8, 2014)

I'm a happy user of a 9 stop ND500 filter of Lightcraft (http://www.lcfilter.com/#!prime-nd/c1622). The 82 mm will cost you US $ 85,00. (corrected)

Not very cheap and it will require manual WB (as all ND filters).


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## Jeffrey (Jul 8, 2014)

I purchased some Schneider 4" x 4" ND filters from 2Filter for my medium format camera that I was shooting last weekend. I am amazed at the quality of the filters. Sure, they are darn expensive! I think it is safe to say that you get what you pay for with filters. I agree with Neuro to avoid using variable density filters. I've not had good luck with the ones that I have tried using with my 1D-X.


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## ewg963 (Jul 8, 2014)

Jeffrey said:


> I purchased some Schneider 4" x 4" ND filters from 2Filter for my medium format camera that I was shooting last weekend. I am amazed at the quality of the filters. Sure, they are darn expensive! I think it is safe to say that you get what you pay for with filters. I agree with Neuro to avoid using variable density filters. I've not had good luck with the ones that I have tried using with my 1D-X.


+1 Jeff I found that out the hard way. You and Neuro (the variable density filters) are right. You live and learn...


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## RobertG. (Jul 12, 2014)

Did anyone of you test the new "Firecrest IRND" filters yet? They claim "The new Firecrest filters are the best NDs ever..." on their facebook page. At least they are the most expensive ones they ever made. I would really love to read some hands on experience. Thanks.


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## AcutancePhotography (Jul 14, 2014)

I also have had good experiences with 2filters.com. They stock Marumi filters, which I have been very happy with quality and price wise.


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## mackguyver (Jul 14, 2014)

I have the Tiffen 82mm Digital Neutral Density Filter Kit and have gotten great results with it. It's reasonably priced doesn't seem to soften or add any major color cast, at least from my testing. Here are two shots I've taken with them, neither of which are color-corrected (WB or otherwise). Both are the 3-stop filters:

Jacksonville, FL, USA Skyline - TS-E 24 f/3.5 II + 1.4xIII - f/16 37s ISO 100:






Golf Course of the Waldorf Astoria Orlando, FL USA - TS-E 24 f/3.5 II - f/16 2.5s ISO 100:


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## Vivid Color (Jul 14, 2014)

dlleno said:


> I ordered my little stopper from the 2filters website and all went well.



I ordered two Hitech filters from 2filter.com and got them within a few days of ordering. Also, their prices were lower than Amazon, Adorama, or B&H for what I ordered, a 3-stop reverse grad and a 2-stop soft edge ND grad. I will definitely consider ordering from them again in the future.


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## kaihp (Jul 15, 2014)

I recently got hold of a Benro ND1000 filter in both 77mm and 82mm. I tested them up against a Tiffen ND0.9 filter and posted the data here. Short story: the Tiffen is crap, whereas the Benro seems quite good. Benro also makes a 100x100m filter.

Pictures:
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=21013.0

Square 100x100mm filter: http://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=39054152718
82mm WMC filter: http://detail.tmall.com/item.htm?id=37661410338

Maybe you can find these in Europe somewhere (I was in China when I bought them, so I just got them directly off taobao)


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## tomscott (Jul 15, 2014)

I have the Tiffen 82mm ND 10 stop filter and I would not recommend it. 

Ridiculous colour cast, once the cast is corrected it has poor contrast, sharpness is good tho. If you shoot into the sun you get a huge purple blob central to the image with awful awful bright purple flair, if you shoot 45deg you get a huge purple blob, just rubbish, you have to shoot with the sun to your back to get a clean image which isn't always what you want.

Here is an example. Shots taken within minutes of each other.

with ND 30 second exposure



Haweswater Reservoir, Derelict Barn, Corpse Road, Cumbria by TomScottPhoto, on Flickr

Although here I quite like the effect. I had to do some fairly heavy editing to remove a large purple spot in the centre of the image, if you look carefully you can see where I have attempted to alter the WB with a targeted adjustment.

Without



Haweswater Reservoir, Derelict Barn, Corpse Road, Cumbria by TomScottPhoto, on Flickr

Bit more info here

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/10-Stop-Neutral-Density-Filter.aspx


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## Halfrack (Jul 15, 2014)

I have both the Hitech and Lee kits. The Lee has the hoods available, so if you're shooting out a glass window you can remove all the reflection that may crop up. I started with the Hitech but needed to purchase it all again for the hood. Lee also has the tandem adapter, so you can stack filters at different angles.

I get some of my filter stuff locally (gotta support the bricks) and they've got both, but I had to order in the 95mm adapter rings. Which reminds me, I should have grabbed a reverse grad for this weekend.


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