# All is still not well



## old-pr-pix (Jul 4, 2016)

CIPA released the latest data for Interchangeable Lens Cameras and the picture is still not good with a significant drop in shipments in May 2016. As to mirrorless vs. dSLR, mirrorless shipments are slipping to the Americas, now down to 1 out of 10 in the latest period. Globally mirrorless is closer to 1 of 5.

Full data here: http://www.cipa.jp/stats/dc_e.html


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## Woody (Jul 4, 2016)

old-pr-pix said:


> CIPA released the latest data for Interchangeable Lens Cameras and the picture is still not good with a significant drop in shipments in May 2016. As to mirrorless vs. dSLR, mirrorless shipments are slipping to the Americas, now down to 1 out of 10 in the latest period. Globally mirrorless is closer to 1 of 5.
> Full data here: http://www.cipa.jp/stats/dc_e.html



Interesting when you say MILCSLR ratio is down to 1:10 in America and 1:5 globally.

Thom Hogan seems to paint a different picture here:
http://www.sansmirror.com/newsviews/the-shaking-news-from-japan.html
According to his chart, ratio of MILCSLR is like 1:3 globally.


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## flanderscamera (Jul 4, 2016)

Ya think damaged factories might have something to do with the lower shipments? :


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## Dylan777 (Jul 4, 2016)

I own 50/50 each systems. I do see pros and cons from each. As always, mirror less offers lighter/smaller system with certain native prime lenses. The advantage will disappear once higher faster lenses attached. Still, there still plenty features mirrorless can offer that current dslr can't do.

Dslr has been around for quite long time and lens selection is great. Many of us already invested in dslr lenses and get used to dslr features and handling. To invest into another systems or another company would be challenge in finance and learning. 

ML or dslr? I think the decision is more easy to choose for those who about to enter the photography.


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## old-pr-pix (Jul 4, 2016)

Woody said:


> old-pr-pix said:
> 
> 
> > CIPA released the latest data for Interchangeable Lens Cameras and the picture is still not good with a significant drop in shipments in May 2016. As to mirrorless vs. dSLR, mirrorless shipments are slipping to the Americas, now down to 1 out of 10 in the latest period. Globally mirrorless is closer to 1 of 5.
> ...



Same database, different view... Thom Hogan has pictured the 2016 Year-to-Date values while I referenced only the current period, i.e. May 2016. Large part of the difference is likely the earthquake impact on Sony sensors which directly impacts Sony, Panasonic and Olympus mirrorless cameras. 

Depending on how one looks at the calendar (fiscal year vs. calendar year) Sony and Olympus seem to swap who is market leader in Japan for mirrorless. BCN reports Olympus as 34.5% share for 2015 with Sony at 24.8 % in Japan. Hence in Japan Olympus and Sony combined have nearly 2/3 of the market for mirrorless. I don't have global data to tell if these same ratios apply globally; but Japan is one of the leading markets for mirrorless. Dramatic drop in mirrorless shipments to Americas may be companies directing limited production to the most receptive market and 'burning off' some existing inventory in less receptive market (i.e US).


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## IglooEater (Jul 5, 2016)

I'm not going to say these tables are wrong, and I'm certainly not going to pretend that my individual experience is at all representative. However I think it's funny that I have not seen one MILC out shooting. Ever. I'd be curious to see a more detailed geographic breakdown of where these cameras are sold, althoughI'm sure no such thing exists.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 5, 2016)

The US market tends to be different from Asia. 

The typical P&S or even Smart Phone shooter who shops Best Buy, believes that the large DSLR's are more "Professional" and they want one over a mirrorless that is small, looks like a P&S, and does not give the shooter a "Professional Photographer" look. Canon has conducted endless surveys, and has reported that this seems to still be holding true. Americans also tend to have large hands, which fit large cameras better. That does not mean that mirrorless cameras are not selling in the US, but they are not taking over either. There is a adequate US market for them, so we will be seeing Canon and Nikon with serious enthusiast models. Those will likely convert a lot of DSLR shooters, but not all.


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## old-pr-pix (Jul 5, 2016)

IglooEater said:


> I'm not going to say these tables are wrong, and I'm certainly not going to pretend that my individual experience is at all representative. However I think it's funny that I have not seen one MILC out shooting. Ever...


MILC shooters are around... there just aren't many of them. I enjoy having both systems - Canon dSLR and m43 Olympus OMD - but honestly find myself using the OMD's more & more in the field. For what I do (non-profit events, PR, etc.) the m43 sensor size is more than adequate IQ-wise and allows a smaller, lighter, easier to carry system. They do chew through batteries however and there is definitely some backlash about 'little' cameras not being pro-caliber.

I looked at Sony a7 series, but larger sensor meant larger, heavier and costlier lenses. I didn't like the balance and saw no advantage over my existing Canon gear. The original Canon M sucked at AF, even after the firmware update. Later models not enough better. OMD's are really fast at 9 FPS. Again, for what I do, they are excellent - YMMV.

I've talked to pro stringers following Presidential candidates using both m43 & Canon, wedding shooters using m43, I've read stories about Magnum shooters using m43 in war zones, and I even know of one guy with a billboard shot from m43... so the pros using MILC's are out there.


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## YuengLinger (Jul 5, 2016)

As SLR shooters age, we will buy more MILC. Olympus is already very popular among retirees.


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## Mikehit (Jul 5, 2016)

IME, the point about perception is crucial. I have Panasonic MFT, Olympus MFT and Canon DSLR - friends who are looking to buy their first camera, I always show them all three. I know that the MFTs will do everything they want to do (and probably will ever want to do) and still they choose DSLR even when they say they want a smallish camera.

MFT has become my 'pack it when on business' camera.


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## YuengLinger (Jul 7, 2016)

I almost pulled the trigger with an Olympus, but then found out the battery only lasts for about 100 shots in many cases.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 7, 2016)

Mikehit said:


> MFT has become my 'pack it when on business' camera.



Interesting... My EOS M kit has become my 'pack it when on family trips' camera, because with young kids those trips are generally out during the day but in at night, and mainly documentary/memory photography. My 'pack it when on business' camera is the 1D X and several lenses (TS-E 17/24, 24-70, Roki 14 or 70-300L), because I can often find time to go out for some city blue hour shooting.


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## LoneRider (Jul 27, 2016)

Is there also pentup demand? How many people are sitting on their hands waiting for the 5Div to be announced before they decide to purchase a new camera?


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## Sharlin (Jul 27, 2016)

LoneRider said:


> Is there also pentup demand? How many people are sitting on their hands waiting for the 5Div to be announced before they decide to purchase a new camera?



5D shooters probably don't even register on that chart. I don't think I'm too off base if I say there are 100 Rebels and 10 xxD's sold for every 5D.


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## dak723 (Jul 28, 2016)

What I really don't get is why does anyone care? DSLRs and Mirrorless are not two sports teams that we root for. So, why does anyone care what percentage of each are sold? They do not compete with one another. They are all cameras. Buy the type you want. Why care which sells more? As long as enough cameras are sold and the companies stay in business, that's all that matters.


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## old-pr-pix (Jul 28, 2016)

YuengLinger said:


> I almost pulled the trigger with an Olympus, but then found out the battery only lasts for about 100 shots in many cases.


That hasn't been my experience -- of course YMMV. I'd say around 300 shots per charge. I have the grip which allows 2 batteries for one of my bodies, but I still usually only have one on-board. I can imagine situations where battery life could be less... mounted on tripod waiting minutes/hours for just the right bird/lighting/whatever or doing a time-lapse and having the LCD display on all that time would be very draining. I admit I tend to turn off/on my Olympus gear far more frequently than I do with my Canon gear. I haven't done the testing to see if using WiFi takes more or less power than the rear LCD, but it is easy enough to remote it from a smartphone and not power either EVF or LCD on-camera displays.


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## Sharlin (Jul 28, 2016)

dak723 said:


> What I really don't get is why does anyone care? DSLRs and Mirrorless are not two sports teams that we root for. So, why does anyone care what percentage of each are sold? They do not compete with one another. They are all cameras. Buy the type you want. Why care which sells more? As long as enough cameras are sold and the companies stay in business, that's all that matters.



For some people it is _definitely_ like sports. Whether it's Star Wars vs. Star Trek, Emacs vs. vi, Linux vs. Windows, Canon vs. Nikon, people have always been eager to pick sides and beat the proverbial dead horse until it's just a mushy lump of proverbial red goo. It's in our hunter-gatherer psyche or something.

Myself, I don't care about the sports teams either...


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## Luds34 (Jul 28, 2016)

Sharlin said:


> dak723 said:
> 
> 
> > What I really don't get is why does anyone care? DSLRs and Mirrorless are not two sports teams that we root for. So, why does anyone care what percentage of each are sold? They do not compete with one another. They are all cameras. Buy the type you want. Why care which sells more? As long as enough cameras are sold and the companies stay in business, that's all that matters.
> ...



Well, my take was different, I took the "all is still not well" from the OP to represent the declining sales of MILC as a whole. Which is not good whether you are in the DSLR camp or the mirrorless. We all want/need a healthy market to exist, one that is big enough for healthy competition so we continue to see great products available to us.

However my personal take is a few months or even one year does not equal a trend, especially taking into account certain systemic, global issues that affect a given quarter or year. In short, the sky is not falling (yet).


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