# Here is the Canon RF 100mm f/2.8L IS USM Macro



## Canon Rumors Guy (Apr 7, 2021)

> *Update:* “SA Control” is spherical aberration control, this macro lens is also 1.4:1 magnification.
> The first images of the upcoming Canon RF 100mm f/2.8L IS USM Macro have leaked ahead of the official announcement, which is expected this month.
> What is interesting about this lens is on the barrel. It says “SA Control” and there is a scale on the barrel. If you have any idea what that is, sound off on the forum! This lens still has the normal manual focus ring, as well as the control ring. So this is something new. Could it be related to a recent patent?
> The official announcement date and pricing have yet to leak out...



Continue reading...


----------



## JoeDavid (Apr 7, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


SA Control is not ringing a bell with me...


----------



## pj1974 (Apr 7, 2021)

Interesting... the lens looks fairly similar to the EF 100mm L IS f/2.8 macro (which I own).
Obviously the control ring at the front (a given) was going to be different / new.
The "SA Control" I am guessing is some ability to change the dynamics of spherical aberration perhaps? 
If so, that's something new and quite interesting! I love my EF 100mm L IS macro... and had expected to use it with a RF-EF converter.
Though if there are certain benefits of the new RF 100mm f/2.8 lens, that may persuade me to buy it in time.... and use it instead!


----------



## dwarven (Apr 7, 2021)

That's a nice looking lens. No idea what SA is though. As a wild guess, I'd say it's a fancy depth of field preview control.


----------



## gatabo (Apr 7, 2021)

there is an extra control ring, but what is it for?


----------



## Aaron D (Apr 7, 2021)

Beautiful! I wish I needed one....


----------



## m4ndr4ke (Apr 7, 2021)

JoeDavid said:


> SA Control is not ringing a bell with me...


I'm not sure if that's "SA" or "5A", and I'm thinking "5 axis"


EDIT: nvm. I didn't read the original post properly.
Maybe "stabilization assistance", who knows...


----------



## VivaLasVegas (Apr 7, 2021)

SA = Super Amazing, more of it to the right, less of it to the left. Or some gimmick like the Touch Bar.


----------



## miketcool (Apr 7, 2021)

I’m hoping it’s for “Slider Adjustment” or “Slider Advance”. The major missing feature in macro work is the ability to focus stack using just the lens. When you’re shooting magnified subjects, you often need to rely on a focus rail to incrementally slide the lens in and out to capture the narrow range in focus to stack. Simply moving the internal components in and out would achieve this control without the need of a rail and tripod. What a revolutionary idea this would be for macro shooting!!

EDIT:
Having looked at the patent, I’m gonna guess it does move the entire internal assembly in and out. SA could also be “Scale Adjustment” where you could change the magnification from 1:1 to 1.4:1 etc.

EDIT 2:
I’m tossing out my earlier wishful thinking in favor of SA meaning “Smoothing Adjustment”. The feature is likely similar to the Defocus Image Control found on the Nikon 105mm f/2 DC lens. Essentially you can control bokeh appearance in the foreground and background by turning the ring. ‘-‘ is for foreground adjustment and ‘+’ is for background adjustment. This is Canon’s patented solution for matching Nikon’s solution.


----------



## bdeutsch (Apr 7, 2021)

miketcool said:


> I’m hoping it’s for “Slider Adjustment” or “Slider Advance”. The major missing feature in macro work is the ability to focus stack using just the lens. When you’re shooting magnified subjects, you often need to rely on a focus rail to incrementally slide the lens in and out to capture the narrow range in focus to stack. Simply moving the internal components in and out would achieve this control without the need of a rail and tripod. What a revolutionary idea this would be for macro shooting!!


+1 Love the slider adjustment concept. Would make focus stacking way easier and precise theoretically. 


Deutsch Photography: NYC’s Top Corporate, Executive and Actor Headshot Photographer NYC


----------



## miketcool (Apr 7, 2021)

bdeutsch said:


> +1 Love the slider adjustment concept. Would make focus stacking way easier and precise theoretically.
> 
> Deutsch Photography: NYC’s Top Corporate, Executive and Actor Headshot Photographer NYC


We know Canon is making these rings electronic, so if it were connected to a motor, you could make the stacking bracketed like you do exposures!


----------



## Sludz (Apr 7, 2021)

Woah! If that's positive and negative spherical aberration control it might be able to blur out defocused areas towards the edges in front or behind depending on +or -?? My optics knowledge is limited haha


----------



## Viggo (Apr 7, 2021)

Sensitivity Adjustment for loose or firm manual focusing?


----------



## mbike999 (Apr 7, 2021)

miketcool said:


> I’m hoping it’s for “Slider Adjustment” or “Slider Advance”. The major missing feature in macro work is the ability to focus stack using just the lens. When you’re shooting magnified subjects, you often need to rely on a focus rail to incrementally slide the lens in and out to capture the narrow range in focus to stack. Simply moving the internal components in and out would achieve this control without the need of a rail and tripod. What a revolutionary idea this would be for macro shooting!!
> 
> EDIT:
> Having looked at the patent, I’m gonna guess it does move the entire internal assembly in and out. SA could also be “Scale Adjustment” where you could change the magnification from 1:1 to 1.4:1 etc.


If true this would be an amazing and innovative feature. Mad props for Canon pushing the envelope on what these lenses can do.


----------



## frankenbeans (Apr 7, 2021)

Sub Atomic. This lens is slightly more macro than the old ones.


----------



## matthileo (Apr 7, 2021)

something like this (though hopefully not as gross looking lol) https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-135mm-f-2.8-with-Softfocus-Lens-Review.aspx

that's my guess anyway


----------



## miketcool (Apr 7, 2021)

Sludz said:


> Woah! If that's positive and negative spherical aberration control it might be able to blur out defocused areas towards the edges in front or behind depending on +or -?? My optics knowledge is limited haha


Essentially would blur corners more and split the light spectrum. I can’t imagine you would want to control this aside from I don’t think you can control it. Canon is using a special blue coating that helps realign the spectrum.


----------



## SteveC (Apr 7, 2021)

frankenbeans said:


> Sub Atomic. This lens is slightly more macro than the old ones.



Oh, so it's actually intended for electron microscopes?


----------



## ronaldzimmerman.nl (Apr 7, 2021)

Looks like a minimum focus distance of 0,26m. That’s 4cm closer than the EF version. More magnification? 
I live the “slider idea” for the SA.


----------



## chasingrealness (Apr 7, 2021)

miketcool said:


> I’m hoping it’s for “Slider Adjustment” or “Slider Advance”. The major missing feature in macro work is the ability to focus stack using just the lens. When you’re shooting magnified subjects, you often need to rely on a focus rail to incrementally slide the lens in and out to capture the narrow range in focus to stack. Simply moving the internal components in and out would achieve this control without the need of a rail and tripod. What a revolutionary idea this would be for macro shooting!!
> 
> EDIT:
> Having looked at the patent, I’m gonna guess it does move the entire internal assembly in and out. SA could also be “Scale Adjustment” where you could change the magnification from 1:1 to 1.4:1 etc.


This is is a really awesome comment. My mind went right where you were pointing. Thanks for taking it there. I also think it makes a ton of sense.

Edit: Aren’t both possible? I can turn my 70-210mm into a passable macro lens with the right extension tubes.


----------



## H. Jones (Apr 7, 2021)

I almost guarantee you that the SA adjustment ring is related to a macro function. It would make absolutely no sense for Canon to add excess portrait-related features to a professional high-end 1:1 macro lens, I know people use this for portraits, but the point of a 1:1 macro is... macro. I'm more willing to believe that the SA is for focus bracketing, or possibly for higher than 1:1 macro. Possibly "Step Adjustment control?"


Sidenote: It happens a 25mm extension tube gives you 1.4X life size on a 100mm macro. If the patent says there's a 1.4X macro, I wouldnt be surprised if this pulls off some sort of internal extension tube for bonus macro lengths.


----------



## ShooterMcGuy (Apr 7, 2021)

I'm assuming it's a focus limiter switch to constrain the lenses focusing range. So when it's hunting for focus it doesn't have to go through the entire range.


----------



## David - Sydney (Apr 8, 2021)

I can't quite make out the writing next to the filter ring... Does is say 1:1 for macro?


----------



## chasingrealness (Apr 8, 2021)

This has the potential to be the first RF lens that is first to market with a very useful _new_ feature depending on what that SA feature does and how well it does it. Not saying that the existing RF lenses haven’t proven they’re worth their weight (if not the gold it takes to get a hold of them) but firsts like these can be pretty great at spurring innovation from the third parties.


----------



## H. Jones (Apr 8, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> I can't quite make out the writing next to the filter ring... Does is say 1:1 for macro?


nope, just CANON LENS RF 100 MM F 2.8 L MACRO IS USM


----------



## miketcool (Apr 8, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> I almost guarantee you that the SA adjustment ring is related to a macro function. It would make absolutely no sense for Canon to add excess portrait-related features to a professional high-end 1:1 macro lens, I know people use this for portraits, but the point of a 1:1 macro is... macro. I'm more willing to believe that the SA is for focus bracketing, or possibly for higher than 1:1 macro. Possibly "Step Adjustment control?"
> 
> 
> Sidenote: It happens a 25mm extension tube gives you 1.4X life size on a 100mm macro. If the patent says there's a 1.4X macro, I wouldnt be surprised if this pulls off some sort of internal extension tube for bonus macro lengths.


The patent shows the lens groupings sliding in and out. This would achieve both stepping for focus bracketing and magnification changes. I’m really excited to see how this works. I’m over fiddling with bracketing for my macro work!


----------



## lexptr (Apr 8, 2021)

An intriguing new ring...  but I also see one drawback right away. They removed the optional collar the EF version had. It is pity. I do like better stability it adds to a setup on a tripod.


----------



## Marygk46 (Apr 8, 2021)

lexptr said:


> An intriguing new ring...  but I also see one drawback right away. They removed the optional collar the EF version had. It is pity. I do like better stability it adds to a setup on a tripod.


I was just about to point that out. The collar makes it so much easier to change the orientation from landscape to portrait, and all points in between.


----------



## PiezoSwitch (Apr 8, 2021)

If the SA is to control spherical aberration it might work similar to the defocus control on Nikon's old 105/2 and 135/2 DC lenses. I believe the idea was to shift the DOF in front of and behind the subject, the effect was subtle.


----------



## deleteme (Apr 8, 2021)

If "SA" means "Slider Adjust" and many are hoping for auto bracketing in camera, why is there a ring with markings? That tells me they assume manual adjustment.

It would seem that the increments would vary for every subject.
Can anybody help me understand?


----------



## Otara (Apr 8, 2021)

Maybe this is about how fine the step advance is? Ie very small but slower, vs faster but less precise, depending on macro vs portrait.


----------



## Sharlin (Apr 8, 2021)

Spherical aberration control between - and + would enable control over which side of the focus plane gets smoother and which one more "ringy" bokeh, like below. It occurs to me that combined with focus stacking, it might be possible to get the best of both worlds!




(source)


----------



## H. Jones (Apr 8, 2021)

Normalnorm said:


> If "SA" means "Slider Adjust" and many are hoping for auto bracketing in camera, why is there a ring with markings? That tells me they assume manual adjustment.
> 
> It would seem that the increments would vary for every subject.
> Can anybody help me understand?


It's not quite a ring, but a few solid stops. I can imagine if this is focus bracketing, every step is a defined amount different backwards or forward from the focused point. That would let you make your focus brackets in specific amounts, and if it's electronic, you could probably define how far of focus every step is.


----------



## CanonGrunt (Apr 8, 2021)

Finally. Now I can take pictures of Ant Man in the quantum realm. 



frankenbeans said:


> Sub Atomic. This lens is slightly more macro than the old ones.


----------



## Chaitanya (Apr 8, 2021)

EF 100mm had closest focus distance of 30cm for 1x this lens has 25cms closest distance based on focus limiter. So does this have slightly higher mag ratio? Really excited for this lens and now will start saving for it, only thing I want is a crop RF body.


----------



## H. Jones (Apr 8, 2021)

Anyone else notice these notches? I thought it was a glitch from the top angle, but there's another one on the lower left side of the lens. Is that some sort of tripod ring?


----------



## privatebydesign (Apr 8, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> View attachment 196787
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone else notice these notches? I thought it was a glitch from the top angle, but there's another one on the lower left side of the lens. Is that some sort of tripod ring?


Probably something to do with a tripod ring, the most scandalously over priced accessory even for Canon!


----------



## highdesertmesa (Apr 8, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> I almost guarantee you that the SA adjustment ring is related to a macro function. It would make absolutely no sense for Canon to add excess portrait-related features to a professional high-end 1:1 macro lens, I know people use this for portraits, but the point of a 1:1 macro is... macro. I'm more willing to believe that the SA is for focus bracketing, or possibly for higher than 1:1 macro. Possibly "Step Adjustment control?"
> 
> 
> Sidenote: It happens a 25mm extension tube gives you 1.4X life size on a 100mm macro. If the patent says there's a 1.4X macro, I wouldnt be surprised if this pulls off some sort of internal extension tube for bonus macro lengths.


Are you aware that to macro photographers the photo of a plant or insect is actually a portrait, just not a portrait of a person? Can’t believe I have to even say that, LOL.


----------



## H. Jones (Apr 8, 2021)

highdesertmesa said:


> Are you aware that to macro photographers the photo of a plant or insect is actually a portrait, just not a portrait of a person? Can’t believe I have to even say that, LOL.


I understand that, but there were clearly comments about soft focus, for example, and I don't see any reason why Canon would choose to include that human specific portrait feature on a macro lens of all things. Macro lenses are not at a loss for bokeh, the primary goal of most macro work is to get the most detail and depth of field out of a very shallow depth of field and often diffraction limited sharpness. No one is looking to smooth the skin of a fly.


----------



## 100 (Apr 8, 2021)

Quote from the translated Japanese patent:

“For example, the interchangeable lens determines whether or not focusing is instructed by a user or a change in an aberration amount is instructed, and moves the 1 focus group and the 2 focus group with a locus suitable for the purpose.”

From that I think the control ring is to make “a change in an (spherical) aberration amount”


----------



## highdesertmesa (Apr 8, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> I understand that, but there were clearly comments about soft focus, for example, and I don't see any reason why Canon would choose to include that human specific portrait feature on a macro lens of all things. Macro lenses are not at a loss for bokeh, the primary goal of most macro work is to get the most detail and depth of field out of a very shallow depth of field and often diffraction limited sharpness. No one is looking to smooth the skin of a fly.


Increasing spherical aberration would not be a soft focus effect, it would be control over bokeh rendering and focus falloff, which would be a unique and valuable tool. In the normal position, the lens would be closer to an APO design. Increasing SA would transform the lens into a completely different design more suited for artistic subject isolation.


----------



## jhpeterson (Apr 8, 2021)

I'm likely to assume that SA stands for spherical aberration. 

If so, it's one more feature to add to the mix of what is already a stellar performing lens, smoothing out those out-of-focus backgrounds and foregrounds. Not that it's the first lens I'll buy for my R1 bodies, but I'm sure I'll have to get one at some time.


----------



## HMC11 (Apr 8, 2021)

Assuming the 'SA' slider adds valuable additional capability for macro photography, Cannon is really pushing the boundary for the RF mount, and we should rejoice.....except for the price, that is. And, it looks like a costly one. 'SA' could well stand for 'Sanity Adjustments', ie. how far above or below the expected price one actually pays, which means the negative markings are an optical illusion.


----------



## LostToFollowUp (Apr 8, 2021)

I would love if the SA is as others have guessed is "Scale Adjustment" as I would love to see it be capable of going 2:1 macro like the laowa lenses, it would be a grand slam I'd assume if this is the case as the last time we saw a canon macro lens with the ability to go beyond 1:1 macro was a very long time ago. On that note I'd even more love to see something capable of going up to 5:1 macro like the Canon MP E Macro 65mm F2/.8


----------



## Trout Bum (Apr 8, 2021)

highdesertmesa said:


> Are you aware that to macro photographers the photo of a plant or insect is actually a portrait, just not a portrait of a person? Can’t believe I have to even say that, LOL.


I can't believe that anyone could misinterpret the meaning of “portrait” on a photography forum. Yes, to you (and to me) a bug pic is a ”portrait”, but please...we know what was meant by that- portraits of human beings, LOL.


----------



## highdesertmesa (Apr 8, 2021)

Trout Bum said:


> I can't believe that anyone could misinterpret the meaning of “portrait” on a photography forum. Yes, to you (and to me) a bug pic is a ”portrait”, but please...we know what was meant by that- portraits of human beings, LOL.



The EF version has been very popular for dual-use macro and (human) portraits. But whether we're talking about people, plants, insects, or objects, they all can benefit from having control over SA.


----------



## pape2 (Apr 8, 2021)

SA could be startpoint adjuster for macro stacking. You can adjust startpoint what is different where autofocus is locked.
Like when shooting fly face from front, autofocus always hits too back to shoulder hairs, eyes stay out of focus.
i been using manual override for this with RP but its darn tricky.


----------



## 2Cents (Apr 8, 2021)

m4ndr4ke said:


> I'm not sure if that's "SA" or "5A", and I'm thinking "5 axis"
> 
> 
> EDIT: nvm. I didn't read the original post properly.
> Maybe "stabilization assistance", who knows...


It does look like "5A." Either way you might be on to something


----------



## snappy604 (Apr 8, 2021)

it's a Surface to Air missile... for wartime photogs.


----------



## Vikmnilu (Apr 8, 2021)

Stacking assistance? There is a scale from (I guess) minus , 0 and plus (dont know the values). maybe is to assist with focus stacking imaging. 

Just a guess.


----------



## Tangent (Apr 8, 2021)

highdesertmesa said:


> Increasing spherical aberration would not be a soft focus effect, it would be control over bokeh rendering and focus falloff, which would be a unique and valuable tool. In the normal position, the lens would be closer to an APO design. Increasing SA would transform the lens into a completely different design more suited for artistic subject isolation.



I, too, like the slider idea, but, as you say, spherical aberration modification seems more likely. I read somewhere that Japanese macro photographers tend to favor a style of wide open shooting -- a narrow depth of field and an aesthetic management of bokeh. Given that predilection, it would make sense to seek to implement an enhanced capability in that direction. Keep the SA setting in the middle and use a rail for focus stacking, would be my guess. This new capability sounds rather intriguing, actually. Hypothetically.


----------



## Dockland (Apr 8, 2021)

I'll guess the lens will be in the price range $2000-2500, but I'll get it anyway


----------



## David - Sydney (Apr 8, 2021)

m4ndr4ke said:


> I'm not sure if that's "SA" or "5A", and I'm thinking "5 axis"
> 
> 
> EDIT: nvm. I didn't read the original post properly.
> Maybe "stabilization assistance", who knows...


I recall the first photos of the front of the R5 and the font made it hard to determine if it saying "RS" instead


----------



## petitBogueBogue (Apr 8, 2021)

IMHO, I think SA means spherical aberration the lens is a macro as well as a variable-softfocusing lens.


----------



## janhalasa (Apr 8, 2021)

I guess it's the SAuron control ring - when you turn it right, you become invisible (for better macro), but you should never turn it left ...


----------



## LSeries (Apr 8, 2021)

pj1974 said:


> Interesting... the lens looks fairly similar to the EF 100mm L IS f/2.8 macro (which I own).
> Obviously the control ring at the front (a given) was going to be different / new.
> The "SA Control" I am guessing is some ability to change the dynamics of spherical aberration perhaps?
> If so, that's something new and quite interesting! I love my EF 100mm L IS macro... and had expected to use it with a RF-EF converter.
> Though if there are certain benefits of the new RF 100mm f/2.8 lens, that may persuade me to buy it in time.... and use it instead!


I love my EF 100mm L IS f/2.8, too. It's also not that expensive so you can have the best of the best for your (macro) work - instead of buying budget lenses because you cannot afford some stupid expensive EF 600mm f/4L for birding.


----------



## Exploreshootshare (Apr 8, 2021)

When the patent for the macro lense hit the internet, I remember that especially some germans websites said it would a 1:1,4 macro. CR and CN said it was 1,4:1 macro. Maybe both were correct and the ring is indeed a "scale adjustment" so you can go from 1:1,4 to 1,4:1 and have a 1:1 macro if you wish. To me, this would make a lot of sense, but so do some of the other suggestions here. 

But I'm very excited to see some real innovation with the added bonus of keeping us guessing until the lense is officially introduced  please more of that Canon!


----------



## Berowne (Apr 8, 2021)

miketcool said:


> I’m hoping it’s for “Slider Adjustment” or “Slider Advance”. The major missing feature in macro work is the ability to focus stack using just the lens. When you’re shooting magnified subjects, you often need to rely on a focus rail to incrementally slide the lens in and out to capture the narrow range in focus to stack. Simply moving the internal components in and out would achieve this control without the need of a rail and tripod. What a revolutionary idea this would be for macro shooting!!
> 
> EDIT:
> Having looked at the patent, I’m gonna guess it does move the entire internal assembly in and out. SA could also be “Scale Adjustment” where you could change the magnification from 1:1 to 1.4:1 etc.


For stacking you have to slide camera and lens, ie the distance of the sensor plane to the object. Moving only the lens or parts of it inevitably changes the frame. This is useless for stacking.


----------



## Del Paso (Apr 8, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> I almost guarantee you that the SA adjustment ring is related to a macro function. It would make absolutely no sense for Canon to add excess portrait-related features to a professional high-end 1:1 macro lens, I know people use this for portraits, but the point of a 1:1 macro is... macro. I'm more willing to believe that the SA is for focus bracketing, or possibly for higher than 1:1 macro. Possibly "Step Adjustment control?"
> 
> 
> Sidenote: It happens a 25mm extension tube gives you 1.4X life size on a 100mm macro. If the patent says there's a 1.4X macro, I wouldnt be surprised if this pulls off some sort of internal extension tube for bonus macro lengths.


But what would be the reason for those + and - markings on the lens-barrel ?
Spherical Adjustment could make more sense...


----------



## [email protected] canon rumors (Apr 8, 2021)

Small/Smart/Soft Adjustment ? no no no it is Snail Allert


----------



## mb66energy (Apr 8, 2021)

What about "Static Aperture" ...
My idea is that you can decide 

to have a classical 2.8 macro with fixed focal length where the effective aperture is f/5.6 at 1:1 or
to have a zoom like 2.8 macro where you change the focal length to get 1:1 and keep the f/2.8
Would be a great thing to tune the lens to maximize working distance if needed or to maximize aperture if you need low light compatibility in the macro range ...

But ... just an idea ...


----------



## Chris.Chapterten (Apr 8, 2021)

SwissFrank said:


> Whatever SA is, there's either a patent on file or its unpatentable, one of the two.


Apparently there is a Canon patent that refers to spherical aberration control in a Macro lens.


----------



## dilbert (Apr 8, 2021)

Patent mentions variable spherical abberation ... are the CR guys trolling us or just not doing their research?


----------



## Christoph Müller (Apr 8, 2021)

I am relatively sure that it is some kind of bokeh control.
Where you can internally shift a few lenses to make objects in the background or foreground appear blurrier.

Nikon already had something like this in the 90s: Nikon 105mm f/2 DC


Nikon 105mm f/2 DC Review


----------



## fox40phil (Apr 8, 2021)

Hardly want 2:1 or even closer! 
Also a >=150mm f2.8. To bad... would be awesome if Canon would give us the options... between 2-4 nice Macro lenses: <20mm, 50-60mm, 100mm and(!) 150/180/200mm!


----------



## jjesp (Apr 8, 2021)

A great lens, I am sure. But again. The RF lenses are almost bigger than the Fuji GFX medium format system. Never understood the need of that RF mount, if it means bigger and heavier.


----------



## harrylarsen (Apr 8, 2021)

Shooting Magnification-1.00E-06 -0.5 -1.4


----------



## padam (Apr 8, 2021)

jjesp said:


> A great lens, I am sure. But again. The RF lenses are almost bigger than the Fuji GFX medium format system. Never understood the need of that RF mount, if it means bigger and heavier.


The primes are much faster and the zooms have a much more useful range (And both 70-200 lenses are small as well) and the USM motors inside these L lenses focus way faster.


----------



## KrisK (Apr 8, 2021)

miketcool said:


> I’m hoping it’s for “Slider Adjustment” or “Slider Advance”. The major missing feature in macro work is the ability to focus stack using just the lens. When you’re shooting magnified subjects, you often need to rely on a focus rail to incrementally slide the lens in and out to capture the narrow range in focus to stack. Simply moving the internal components in and out would achieve this control without the need of a rail and tripod. What a revolutionary idea this would be for macro shooting!!
> 
> EDIT:
> Having looked at the patent, I’m gonna guess it does move the entire internal assembly in and out. SA could also be “Scale Adjustment” where you could change the magnification from 1:1 to 1.4:1 etc.



In terms of macro and stacking, Is the use of a slider preferable to focus bracketing (automation of which is built in to some Canon bodies.)?


----------



## Ed O. (Apr 8, 2021)

... ' don't know.. but my 2 cents/best guess is "spherical alignment". Possibly an adjustment to the curvature of the focus plane. That would be cool.


----------



## dilbert (Apr 8, 2021)

miketcool said:


> EDIT:
> Having looked at the patent, I’m gonna guess it does move the entire internal assembly in and out. SA could also be “Scale Adjustment” where you could change the magnification from 1:1 to 1.4:1 etc.



That's what I first thought too but other posts point out that the reason for the movement is to manage spherical abberation (according to translations of the patent.)


----------



## LensFungus (Apr 8, 2021)

I work for Canon and I can confirm that "SA control" stands for "Sony Alpha control". You will get the ability to change the temperature of Sony Alpha cameras nearby so that you can make them overheat and Sony users have to drop them. Canon, you evil genius!


----------



## wockawocka (Apr 8, 2021)

Unless it comes with at least two hookers on free play and a lifetime supply of chocolate it's going to be hard to better the EF 100mm 2.8


----------



## pape2 (Apr 8, 2021)

Does this spherical abberation things means macro photographers are paying from some portrait photographers quirks.
And price is 3000E ?


----------



## highdesertmesa (Apr 8, 2021)

jjesp said:


> A great lens, I am sure. But again. The RF lenses are almost bigger than the Fuji GFX medium format system. Never understood the need of that RF mount, if it means bigger and heavier.


RF mount is the same diameter as EF, they just moved it closer to the sensor. Canon has gone all out on big lenses in the pursuit of the perfection that the short flange distance now affords. Nikon went a different direction with a series of small f/1.8 lenses even though the Z mount (55mm) is 1mm wider than RF (54mm).


----------



## Hobby (Apr 8, 2021)

This RF100mm on an EOS R6 (20Mpx) or on an R5 (45 Mpx): would that be a huge difference in image quality? (Or on an EOS Rp 26 Mpx?) My question is: is sensor resolution very important for Macro?


----------



## Viggo (Apr 8, 2021)

I have no idea, but I find it hard to believe it’s “Spherical Aberration” or “Spherical Adjustment” I mean, who uses a Canon camera and knows wth Spherical Adjustment is outside us nerds on CR?

DS = Defocus Smoothing sounds much more Canon like. Easy to understand even though it’s a highly specialty lens...


----------



## bbasiaga (Apr 8, 2021)

Hobby said:


> This RF100mm on an EOS R6 (20Mpx) or on an R5 (45 Mpx): would that be a huge difference in image quality? (Or on an EOS Rp 26 Mpx?) My question is: is sensor resolution very important for Macro?


Not any more important than on other photography pursuits. How big do you want to print, and how much do you want to crop? I did a lot of macro with my digital rebel and the non L 100mm macro. The biggest print I did was I think 13x19" of a praying mantis. 6.3mp. It looked great, even though the internet would tell you that it couldn't exist because there weren't enough pixels to produce it.


----------



## micm77 (Apr 8, 2021)

I’d guess SA control is for adjust before & after subject out of focus similar to Nikon & other brand have done in the past , 135mm defocus DC


----------



## RMac (Apr 8, 2021)

I'd guess SA = spherical aberration


----------



## WillT (Apr 8, 2021)

Hopefully, SA control is some type of fine adjustment.


----------



## BirdDudeJosh (Apr 8, 2021)

jjesp said:


> A great lens, I am sure. But again. The RF lenses are almost bigger than the Fuji GFX medium format system. Never understood the need of that RF mount, if it means bigger and heavier.


Do you own or have you actually held the GFX system because I own both systems and doubt you have based on your comment. I assume you are talking specifically about the 120mm f4 “macro” lens that only does half life size. That’s right your comparing a lens that isn’t even really macro and has half the reproduction ratio. The Fuji 120mm f4 is much much larger than the Canon EF 100mm L macro. You have to slap the 45mm extension tube just to get to 1:1 with it which makes it as big as 180mm macro lens but only gives you 1:1 and 90mm field of view in FF equivalent. Please remind me of all the other compact GFX lens that compare directly feature for feature. Silly clown probably going to come back comparing Fuji f5.6 zooms with Canon f2 zooms.


----------



## GrunRad (Apr 8, 2021)

Despite the apparent consensus in the recent comments I cannot see a SA ("Spherical Aberration") but rather a 5A ("Five Axis"?) - the "0.5" in the focus limit range uses the same font.


----------



## privatebydesign (Apr 8, 2021)

Nyarlathotep said:


> 5-Axis (IBIS)?


Don’t forget the EF100 Macro was the first and only Canon lens with ‘Hybrid IS’ that allows for tilt as well as shake, all optically. No IBIS just lens based.

HAving said that I doubt that ring has anything to do with image stabilization.


----------



## pardus (Apr 8, 2021)

I don't think so, look at a canon stabilized lens at the switch and the font for Stabilized S is closer to it than the 0.5 is IMO.


----------



## slclick (Apr 8, 2021)

That's a horrible 5 if it's a 5. it looks truncated. My eyes say it's an S.


----------



## Del Paso (Apr 8, 2021)

My (sad) bet: $1600
Or even more...


----------



## Del Paso (Apr 8, 2021)

bluezurich said:


> That's a horrible 5 if it's a 5. it looks truncated. My eyes say it's an S.


And mine are watering, thinking of the added $$$ this S or 5 stands for !


----------



## Gazwas (Apr 8, 2021)

Nyarlathotep said:


> 5-Axis (IBIS)?


Could this be moving the sensor for focus stacking rather than the lens?

Can the sensore move much front to back?

Very interesting and great looking lens.


----------



## Ozarker (Apr 8, 2021)

BirdDudeJosh said:


> Silly clown probably going to come back comparing Fuji f5.6 zooms with Canon f2 zooms.


No need to get personal, BirdDude.


----------



## HikeBike (Apr 8, 2021)

I also think that reads 5A.


----------



## Stapper (Apr 8, 2021)

WillT said:


> Hopefully, SA control is some type of fine adjustment.


I think it just means Sony's Assassination


----------



## BeenThere (Apr 8, 2021)

SA = Secret Adjustment. To be revealed at introduction.


----------



## David_E (Apr 8, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


Sold! Now I have to check the retailer sites continuously to get my order in early.


----------



## [email protected] (Apr 8, 2021)

JoeDavid said:


> SA Control is not ringing a bell with me...


Very tasty Canon - soon with their other RF lenses going to be leader of the FF ML pack


----------



## prodorshak (Apr 8, 2021)

Trying a new Colombian coffee in the morning and reading through the 'geek' level in this thread..enjoying both tremendously. Keep it going people. CR forum is awesome.

(although many other posts here were way more geeky)


----------



## Dockland (Apr 8, 2021)

Del Paso said:


> My (sad) bet: $1600
> Or even more...


I don't think this will go under $2000 
If it do, then it's all good


----------



## StoicalEtcher (Apr 8, 2021)

Dockland said:


> I'll guess the lens will be in the price range $2000-2500, but I'll get it anyway


Don't say things like that... You've got to say "I won't buy this unless it is under $1,500" 

Really interesting lens if it brings something new, and just the sort of thing that might persuade a skeptic to go mirrorless...... Hmnnnnnnn


----------



## Dockland (Apr 8, 2021)

StoicalEtcher said:


> Don't say things like that... You've got to say "I won't buy this unless it is under $1,500"
> 
> Really interesting lens if it brings something new, and just the sort of thing that might persuade a skeptic to go mirrorless...... Hmnnnnnnn



Hehe, for me I'll buy it @ $3000 even


----------



## privatebydesign (Apr 8, 2021)

Dockland said:


> Hehe, for me I'll buy it @ $3000 even


Yes, you and about 10 other people...


----------



## David_E (Apr 8, 2021)

StoicalEtcher said:


> Don't say things like that... You've got to say "I won't buy this unless it is under $1,500"
> 
> Really interesting lens if it brings something new, and just the sort of thing that might persuade a skeptic to go mirrorless...... Hmnnnnnnn


*RF* 100 mm macro? Isn't that something new?


----------



## Dockland (Apr 8, 2021)

David_E said:


> *RF* 100 mm macro? Isn't that something new?



Yes, and there are cheaper alternatives if one doesn't want to pay up


----------



## David_E (Apr 8, 2021)

Dockland said:


> Yes, and there are cheaper alternatives if one doesn't want to pay up


I don't do cheap—read _off-brand_—alternatives.


----------



## Dockland (Apr 8, 2021)

David_E said:


> I don't do cheap—read _off-brand_—alternatives.



Neither do I


----------



## fred (Apr 8, 2021)

Still no RF100-500mm F4.5-5.6L IS ( 
(typo alert here...)


----------



## Bonich (Apr 8, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> I almost guarantee you that the SA adjustment ring is related to a macro function. It would make absolutely no sense for Canon to add excess portrait-related features to a professional high-end 1:1 macro lens, I know people use this for portraits, but the point of a 1:1 macro is... macro. I'm more willing to believe that the SA is for focus bracketing, or possibly for higher than 1:1 macro. Possibly "Step Adjustment control?"
> 
> 
> Sidenote: It happens a 25mm extension tube gives you 1.4X life size on a 100mm macro. If the patent says there's a 1.4X macro, I wouldnt be surprised if this pulls off some sort of internal extension tube for bonus macro lengths.


Nothing but a support for focus bracketing makes sense for an extra control ring @ this lens. Step Adjustment is a very hot candidate decrypting this abbreviation "SA".


----------



## Bonich (Apr 8, 2021)

I am missing the tripod collar.
It is more than helpful for macro work.


----------



## privatebydesign (Apr 8, 2021)

Bonich said:


> I am missing the tripod collar.
> It is more than helpful for macro work.


It will be announced at the same time, probably a $250 option. Wait six months and there will be very good quality 3rd party versions. I got a Vello collar for my EF 100 Macro and it is a perfect copy in form, fit, and function.


----------



## sryan (Apr 8, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


Someone said Scale Adjustment and I like that as a possible name since it looks like there is a macro mode and a scale for micro adjustments on the barrel.


----------



## SteveC (Apr 8, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> It will be announced at the same time, probably a $250 option. Wait six months and there will be very good quality 3rd party versions. I got a Vello collar for my EF 100 Macro and it is a perfect copy in form, fit, and function.



I'm generally willing to trust a third party for what is, essentially, an inert piece of metal. Given, of course, that it's actually precisely the right shape.

Batteries? No way.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 8, 2021)

Its a soft focus control which adjusts Spherical Abberation. Its basically a dual focus system as described in this patent.


According to the patent application, the first focusing module would be used for the traditional purpose of focusing on the subject matter. The other module, however, isn't for the sake of focusing, but to intentionally soften the image using spherical aberration.

The patent application details two specific challenges designing such a lens: firstly it covers a way to focus this two group design (which is a challenge to do when spherical aberration is present in the image). Secondly it describes a way to able to vary the amount of soft-focus, so you can add as much or as little spherical aberration as you see fit for the scene, without having to refocus: something not possible with past soft-focus lenses.









Canon patent application teases full-frame 'soft-focus' lens designs


A Japanese patent application from Canon shows off the schematics for a potential 58mm F1.4 'soft-focus' lens with two focusing modules.




www.dpreview.com


----------



## SteB1 (Apr 8, 2021)

I believe that there are Canon patents for a macro lens with soft focus control. It's very difficult to know if this what this SA ring is for or if it is another unknown function. As others have pointed out, the 26cm range on the focus limiter indicates that this does focus closer than 1:1 as the minimum focus distance of a 100mm 1:1 macro lens is typically around 30cm. This would tally with the 1.4x rumours. The Laowa 100mm achieves 2x at 24.7cm.


----------



## slclick (Apr 8, 2021)

SteveC said:


> I'm generally willing to trust a third party for what is, essentially, an inert piece of metal. Given, of course, that it's actually precisely the right shape.
> 
> Batteries? No way.


Maybe it's just me and I'm sure the know it alls will chime it stating that as a fact but I have always felt better about using my macro work with the body (via L Bracket) sliding on the rack (Novoflex Castel Q) than a lens ring option.


----------



## privatebydesign (Apr 8, 2021)

SteveC said:


> I'm generally willing to trust a third party for what is, essentially, an inert piece of metal. Given, of course, that it's actually precisely the right shape.
> 
> Batteries? No way.


100% agree. Indeed I was reluctant to even get the Vello but it was a special offer price from B&H so I thought if it was garbage I could return it and it was cheap enough to give it a try anyway (it had excellent reviews too). I couldn't be more impressed with it, literally indistinguishable from a Canon one that cost 5 times as much but for the fact it has Vello written on it. Apparently they have now done two versions, the earlier one doesn't get as good ratings but the second one is, from my limited experience, perfect.


----------



## SteveC (Apr 8, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> 100% agree. Indeed I was reluctant to even get the Vello but it was a special offer price from B&H so I thought if it was garbage I could return it and it was cheap enough to give it a try anyway (it had excellent reviews too). I couldn't be more impressed with it, literally indistinguishable from a Canon one that cost 5 times as much but for the fact it has Vello written on it. Apparently they have now done two versions, the earlier one doesn't get as good ratings but the second one is, from my limited experience, perfect.



In my case I bought a Vello EF to EF-M adapter (or should I say that the other way round?) because I couldn't stomach paying 200 bucks for one from Canon. (I eventually found a couple of Canon-brand ones for cheap.) That's another inert item, but probably much more finicky in terms of having to be _precisely_ made.


----------



## entoman (Apr 8, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> View attachment 196787
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone else notice these notches? I thought it was a glitch from the top angle, but there's another one on the lower left side of the lens. Is that some sort of tripod ring?


 USB slot for updates?


----------



## Ph0t0 (Apr 8, 2021)

David_E said:


> *RF* 100 mm macro? Isn't that something new?


I think he meant something new other than just the RF mount (something to tempt people to switch from the EF version).


----------



## entoman (Apr 8, 2021)

Hobby said:


> This RF100mm on an EOS R6 (20Mpx) or on an R5 (45 Mpx): would that be a huge difference in image quality? (Or on an EOS Rp 26 Mpx?) My question is: is sensor resolution very important for Macro?


For context, I use EF 100mm and EF 180mm macros on R5, primarily for insect photography. These live subjects are nervous and difficult to approach, or often can't be approached closely without casting a shadow on them. So high resolution is really useful. It enables you to shoot from further back, and then crop down - saving you the cost and weight of a longer focal length such as the EF 180mm macro.


----------



## entoman (Apr 8, 2021)

GrunRad said:


> Despite the apparent consensus in the recent comments I cannot see a SA ("Spherical Aberration") but rather a 5A ("Five Axis"?) - the "0.5" in the focus limit range uses the same font.
> 
> View attachment 196802


But why would you need or want a row of negative-positive markers, if this is for 5-axis stabilisation?
A simple on-off switch would let you choose between optical and combined optical/IBIS.

A spherical aberration control would make a lot more sense, as one of the biggest problems with macro, is the onion-ring bokeh on out-of-focus highlights, and a spherical ab controller would allow that to be minimised.

I think the resolution of photos of the lens is toolow to enable anyone to say with confidence whether it is "5A" or "SA", but my money is on the latter.


----------



## exige24 (Apr 8, 2021)

jjesp said:


> A great lens, I am sure. But again. The RF lenses are almost bigger than the Fuji GFX medium format system. Never understood the need of that RF mount, if it means bigger and heavier.



Of all things that constitute owning a lens, complaining about literal 10's of grams or even prioritizing it. Lol Deralick Zoolander's on your phones.


----------



## Ahmed Hindawi (Apr 8, 2021)

ronaldzimmerman.nl said:


> Looks like a minimum focus distance of 0,26m. That’s 4cm closer than the EF version. More magnification?
> I live the “slider idea” for the SA.


There was indeed some speculations that it would have 1.4 magnification.


----------



## Jethro (Apr 8, 2021)

SteB1 said:


> I believe that there are Canon patents for a macro lens with soft focus control. It's very difficult to know if this what this SA ring is for or if it is another unknown function. As others have pointed out, the 26cm range on the focus limiter indicates that this does focus closer than 1:1 as the minimum focus distance of a 100mm 1:1 macro lens is typically around 30cm. This would tally with the 1.4x rumours. *The Laowa 100mm achieves 2x at 24.7cm.*


Great lens by the way - manual focus (and minimal exif data), but now I'm used to it, I probably have no place for a Canon RF 100 at 3 times the price.


----------



## sanj (Apr 9, 2021)

entoman said:


> For context, I use EF 100mm and EF 180mm macros on R5, primarily for insect photography. These live subjects are nervous and difficult to approach, or often can't be approached closely without casting a shadow on them. So high resolution is really useful. It enables you to shoot from further back, and then crop down - saving you the cost and weight of a longer focal length such as the EF 180mm macro.


You ask about IQ. The benefits/disadvantages of high MP remain the same for macro or not.


----------



## pape2 (Apr 9, 2021)

Dear MR canon ,could you make 200mm macro lense without useless portrait bokeh adjusts .
Add there focus stacking enabled and disabled lever. And another lever where is focus increment on other end and number of shots on another end.
When stacking is enabled RF adjust ring could be used to adjust number of shots or increment. When stacking disabled it would do ISO adjust.
And firmware so adjusting would be seen side of viewfinder.


----------



## Dockland (Apr 9, 2021)

entoman said:


> For context, I use EF 100mm and EF 180mm macros on R5, primarily for insect photography. These live subjects are nervous and difficult to approach, or often can't be approached closely without casting a shadow on them. So high resolution is really useful. It enables you to shoot from further back, and then crop down - saving you the cost and weight of a longer focal length such as the EF 180mm macro.



I'll second this. I have both the R5 and the R6 but the cropping possibility is leaps better with the R5's 45 MP. 
Coming from a 5D IV i thought the R6 would be an upgrade, but well, after a week or so with the R6 I just felt it was somewhat limiting my workflow and I got the R5, and that one was the first camera since 5D II that had me going "Wow" 
So selling my R6 or use it as a backup or something. Don't really know. BUT thats a story for another discussion.


----------



## Diltiazem (Apr 9, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> View attachment 196787
> 
> 
> 
> Anyone else notice these notches? I thought it was a glitch from the top angle, but there's another one on the lower left side of the lens. Is that some sort of tripod ring?


I think it's a lock or something similar to prevent the ring from moving accidentally.


----------



## Del Paso (Apr 9, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> 100% agree. Indeed I was reluctant to even get the Vello but it was a special offer price from B&H so I thought if it was garbage I could return it and it was cheap enough to give it a try anyway (it had excellent reviews too). I couldn't be more impressed with it, literally indistinguishable from a Canon one that cost 5 times as much but for the fact it has Vello written on it. Apparently they have now done two versions, the earlier one doesn't get as good ratings but the second one is, from my limited experience, perfect.


Non Canon collars: I fully agree they are often a great value.
Canon LP6 N batteries are a different topic: mine last a maximum 2,5 years... but never experienced off-brand ones.
Other OEM batteries I use, Olympus, Ricoh or Leica, up to 6-7 years !


----------



## Joules (Apr 9, 2021)

Bengt Nyman said:


> When using a macro lens the amplification of the object (and focus) is very sensitive to the distance between object and lens. It appears possible that Canon might be using this by mechanizing a Slider Assembly to alter the amplification (almost like a zoom) without having to change the distance between object and lens. This might be what gets them to 1.4:1 in one direction and possibly 1:1.4 in the other.
> By the way, I am using their RF 35mm macro which has a nifty feature which greatly simplifies manual focus. It consists of two arrows which point apart when the chosen point is out of focus while moving towards coinciding, overlapping and turning green, when in focus. This tells you both which way to move and when you are in focus. I hope that Canon plans to give us both Slider Assembly Control (micro zoom) and arrow focus in their new RF 100mm f/2.8L IS USM Macro 1.4:1.


The arrow focus you describe just sounds like Canon's manual focus guides, which should be available regardless of the lens, as long as the lens is detectable for the body. So that's pretty much a given.


----------



## koenkooi (Apr 9, 2021)

Joules said:


> The arrow focus you describe just sounds like Canon's manual focus guides, which should be available regardless of the lens, as long as the lens is detectable for the body. So that's pretty much a given.


It even works with the MP-E65mm, which is fixed-focus!


----------



## Kit. (Apr 9, 2021)

entoman said:


> USB slot for updates?


Not needed on Canon lenses (their firmware can be updated through the camera).


----------



## Dockland (Apr 9, 2021)

Kit. said:


> Not needed on Canon lenses (their firmware can be updated through the camera).


Even the battery grip can be upgraded via the camera, but there's no new fw to that one yet. (BG-R10)


----------



## BPhoto06 (Apr 9, 2021)

I have no idea what SA means, but I was thinking along the lines of something like a fine focus adjustment to get more precise focus as it is a macro lens at 100mm. If it is I still don't know what SA means. I am only throwing a suggestion out there.


----------



## koenkooi (Apr 9, 2021)

Kit. said:


> Not needed on Canon lenses (their firmware can be updated through the camera).


For lenses released after 2012, so the EF100mm L can't be updated by the camera.


----------



## chrysoberyl (Apr 9, 2021)

Does USM mean it is not focus by wire?


----------



## Dockland (Apr 9, 2021)

chrysoberyl said:


> Does USM mean it is not focus by wire?








Canon Lens Focusing Motor Technology - Canon UK


Discover USM and STM lens technology. Learn about the history of Ultra Sonic Motor and how the technologies enable you to achieve sharp and in-focus results.




www.canon.co.uk


----------



## StoicalEtcher (Apr 9, 2021)

Ph0t0 said:


> I think he meant something new other than just the RF mount (something to tempt people to switch from the EF version).


You're right, 'he' did, but couldn't bother to respond  Thanks for doing it for me!


----------



## chrysoberyl (Apr 9, 2021)

Very well! Then if testing shows that this lens resolves as well as Sigma's 70mm Art, I will go mirrorless.


----------



## Ruined (Apr 9, 2021)

This looks similar to the EF version. I had the EF version and it was okay, but never really loved it because it seemed to do a lot of things good but none of them particularly amazing.


----------



## slclick (Apr 9, 2021)

StoicalEtcher said:


> You're right, 'he' did, but couldn't bother to respond  Thanks for doing it for me!


Was that tongue in cheek? I cannot imagine you would actually expect members here to be checking in regularly akin to texting a spouse.


----------



## Ozarker (Apr 9, 2021)

bluezurich said:


> Was that tongue in cheek? I cannot imagine you would actually expect members here to be checking in regularly akin to texting a spouse.


Some of us have very emotional affairs with each other. We even fight like married folks.


----------



## slclick (Apr 9, 2021)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Some of us have very emotional affairs with each other. We even fight like married folks.


Come to think of it, I miss Adam and Neuro as of late, maybe they employed the restraining order 'ignore' button. Ha!

The evolution into a more video centric site has brought a bit too much technical banter and not enough color commentary for my liking. (That's code for BORING) Still love ya CFB


----------



## Andrew_Melb (Apr 10, 2021)

bdeutsch said:


> +1 Love the slider adjustment concept. Would make focus stacking way easier and precise theoretically.
> 
> Deutsch Photography: NYC’s Top Corporate, Executive and Actor Headshot Photographer NYC


the EF 100mm already does this on some camera bodies (eg the 90D). The camera can do focus stacking itself.


----------



## hollybush (Apr 10, 2021)

It's the Sexiness Augmentation control. Turn in the +ve direction for portraiture, and in the -ve direction for photojournalism.


----------



## harrylarsen (Apr 10, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> It's not quite a ring, but a few solid stops. I can imagine if this is focus bracketing, every step is a defined amount different backwards or forward from the focused point. That would let you make your focus brackets in specific amounts, and if it's electronic, you could probably define how far of focus every step is.


All that are in R5


----------



## Bengt Nyman (Apr 10, 2021)

Joules said:


> The arrow focus you describe just sounds like Canon's manual focus guides, which should be available regardless of the lens, as long as the lens is detectable for the body. So that's pretty much a given.


Thanks, that sounds good. Looking forward to the release including MTF and more info about image quality.


----------



## Del Paso (Apr 10, 2021)

BPhoto06 said:


> I have no idea what SA means, but I was thinking along the lines of something like a fine focus adjustment to get more precise focus as it is a macro lens at 100mm. If it is I still don't know what SA means. I am only throwing a suggestion out there.


It could indeed be kind of a "focus ultra-fine tuning" for manual focusing.
Therefore the + and - markings.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 10, 2021)

Del Paso said:


> It could indeed be kind of a "focus ultra-fine tuning" for manual focusing.
> Therefore the + and - markings.


You don't really need focus fine tuning with a RF lens, you can variable focus speed so that it can focus in very fine increments. Ideal for manual macro focusing.

from TDP


----------



## StoicalEtcher (Apr 10, 2021)

slclick said:


> Was that tongue in cheek? I cannot imagine you would actually expect members here to be checking in regularly akin to texting a spouse.


No, not especially tongue-in-cheek. I was the 'he' referred to in Ph0to's post, and while I didn't see just "RF" as being enough 'new' for my original comments ( I was referring rather to the other aspects of this lens), I wasn't concerned to pick up on that (on the basis that everyone can have their own interpretations, so I just wasn't bothered), but when Ph0t0 then picked up on it and posited a response, I then felt maybe I should have made a comment.

No harm intended to any party


----------



## Nemorino (Apr 10, 2021)

I hope we get also a set of extension tubes with this lens if it is "just" a 1:1 macro. I expect this would be the only way to get higher magnification with original RF lenses.


----------



## stevelee (Apr 10, 2021)

snappy604 said:


> it's a Surface to Air missile... for wartime photogs.


Yes, that's something I have definitely missed on the EF version.


----------



## stevelee (Apr 10, 2021)

janhalasa said:


> I guess it's the SAuron control ring - when you turn it right, you become invisible (for better macro), but you should never turn it left ...


Or maybe one ring to control them all.


----------



## stevelee (Apr 10, 2021)

Nemorino said:


> I hope we get also a set of extension tubes with this lens if it is "just" a 1:1 macro. I expect this would be the only way to get higher magnification with original RF lenses.


Extension tubes work great with my EF 100mm, easily to 2x.


----------



## StoicalEtcher (Apr 10, 2021)

Nemorino said:


> I hope we get also a set of extension tubes with this lens if it is "just" a 1:1 macro. I expect this would be the only way to get higher magnification with original RF lenses.


I'm sure they'll be on the way, but bear in mind you don't get as much additional maginifcation from extension tubes once you get to 100mm focal length (the bigger gains come with lenses of shorter lengths).


----------



## stevelee (Apr 10, 2021)

KrisK said:


> In terms of macro and stacking, Is the use of a slider preferable to focus bracketing (automation of which is built in to some Canon bodies.)?


If I follow your question correctly, yes. When you refocus, it changes the magnification. That's not ideal for stacking. It is better to move the camera a bit to change the plane of focus.


----------



## Korean AvG (Apr 11, 2021)

That is a nice looking lens. I need it.


----------



## deleteme (Apr 11, 2021)

Still waitin' on them wide angle zooms Canon.
Small primes might be nice too.


----------



## lawny13 (Apr 11, 2021)

miketcool said:


> The patent shows the lens groupings sliding in and out. This would achieve both stepping for focus bracketing and magnification changes. I’m really excited to see how this works. I’m over fiddling with bracketing for my macro work!


Of the all of the lens elements move forward and backwards then that is the equivalent of moving the whole lens closer and further from the sensor. Thus extension is tubes equivalent.

as die bracketing there is simply no way around it. You need multiple shots to capture the DOF you want. Only way to get more in picture is through aperture and we all know there is only so far you can push that.


----------



## Nemorino (Apr 11, 2021)

stevelee said:


> Extension tubes work great with my EF 100mm, easily to 2x.


But we all know EF tubes are useless for RF!


StoicalEtcher said:


> but bear in mind you don't get as much additional maginifcation from extension tubes once you get to 100mm focal length


Yes, yes, I know, I know! I own a Sigma 105mm Macro and use it with extension tubes. The biggest disadvantage of tubes is the shorter far focus and I would like not to use these tubes. But I would like to have a magnification similar to my Laowa 60mm 2:1 Macro just with AF. Spring is the time of bee-flies and catching them in flight is not easy with a full manual lens!

Edit:
The German homepage of Canon is listing the scale of the EF 100 witth extension tubes:
12mm: 1,17-0,12
25mm: 1,37-0,27


----------



## StoicalEtcher (Apr 11, 2021)

Nemorino said:


> But I would like to have a magnification similar to my Laowa 60mm 2:1 Macro just with AF. Spring is the time of bee-flies and catching them in flight is not easy with a full manual lens!


Aah, yes, I know! And if Canon would come out with a fully functioning 2:1 macro, that would be fantastic. 

I have been going back and forth on the Laowa 100mm F2.8 2:1 Ultra Macro APO myself, and can't decide.... Of course, it is manual focus, so that wouldn'tt help you with your particular issue of flying bees.

Cheers!


----------



## Nemorino (Apr 11, 2021)

StoicalEtcher said:


> I have been going back and forth on the Laowa 100mm F2.8 2:1 Ultra Macro APO myself, and can't decide..


I am very happy with my Laowa which is great for flowers or mushrooms, but as mentioned moving subjects are a challange! The manual aperture is in bad light conditions also a problem and afaik only the Laowa *EF *100 has electronic aperture.


StoicalEtcher said:


> of flying bees


In fact I had _bee-flies _aka Bombyliidae im mind like this one:
https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/threads/butterflies-moths-and-assorted-insects.31073/post-869000
Shot with the Sigma 105 Macro and tubes.


----------



## chrysoberyl (Apr 11, 2021)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> You don't really need focus fine tuning with a RF lens, you can variable focus speed so that it can focus in very fine increments. Ideal for manual macro focusing.
> 
> from TDP
> 
> View attachment 196833


All RF lenses are focus by wire? Can anyone advise whether they are fiddly like the Sigma 70mm Art?


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 11, 2021)

chrysoberyl said:


> All RF lenses are focus by wire? Can anyone advise whether they are fiddly like the Sigma 70mm Art?


So far they are. The setting is in the body, not the lens.


----------



## SteveC (Apr 11, 2021)

Nemorino said:


> But we all know EF tubes are useless for RF!


Nope. EF air is compatible with RF air. But not the other way around.


----------



## deleteme (Apr 11, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> It's not quite a ring, but a few solid stops. I can imagine if this is focus bracketing, every step is a defined amount different backwards or forward from the focused point. That would let you make your focus brackets in specific amounts, and if it's electronic, you could probably define how far of focus every step is.


Fiddling with a ring seems to be a way to maximize camera movement in a process that wants to avoid that. I use silent shutter and control my camera with CamRanger precisely so I don't have to touch my camera.


----------



## Sparky (Apr 12, 2021)

SA = Sony Alpha control? How many Sony’s you can neutralise within 100yds!


----------



## Dockland (Apr 12, 2021)

Sparky said:


> SA = Sony Alpha control? How many Sony’s you can neutralise within 100yds!



I think it says 5A


----------



## bks54 (Apr 12, 2021)

According to Nokishita, the SA ring controls spherical aberration for bokeh adjustment. Magnification up to 1.4x.


----------



## John Wilde (Apr 12, 2021)

bks54 said:


> According to Nokishita, the SA ring controls spherical aberration for bokeh adjustment. Magnification up to 1.4x.


----------



## chrysoberyl (Apr 12, 2021)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> So far they are. The setting is in the body, not the lens.
> View attachment 196860


An interesting implementation. I'll have to rent this lens and a body at some point to see whether I like it, because focus by wire has consistently disappointed me thus far, and I almost always focus manually.

Thank you for the information!


----------



## Sludz (Apr 13, 2021)

miketcool said:


> Essentially would blur corners more and split the light spectrum. I can’t imagine you would want to control this aside from I don’t think you can control it. Canon is using a special blue coating that helps realign the spectrum.


This didn’t age well


----------



## miketcool (Apr 13, 2021)

Sludz said:


> This didn’t age well


Chromatic aberration and spherical aberration are the same thing right? 

I followed this up with the Nikon 105mm DC lens that has the same ability to adjust spherical aberration. It’s helpful in portraiture when you stop down because of the narrow range of DoF. I still can’t see the benefit in Macro shooting. To Canon’s credit, the EF 100mm macro likely sold more copies for portrait work than macro work with it’s cheap complaint being harsh bokeh stopped down. At least portrait shooters have an expensive tool to add to their bag.


----------

