# 5D Mark III [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Dec 26, 2010)

```
<strong>First 5D Mark III Spec List.</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>28 megapixel</li>
<li>2 Stop Noise Improvement</li>
<li>63-segment metering</li>
<li>1920Ã—1080 30/25/24 frame Video</li>
<li>RAW Video</li>
<li>CES Announcement</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>CRâ€™s Take</strong>

I posted this because it seems like a rumor that may spread around the web.</p>
<p>Itâ€™s highly unlikely Canon will introduce a 5D Mark III at CES.</p>
<p><strong></strong><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r </strong>
```


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## Admin US West (Dec 26, 2010)

The problem with the 2 stop noise improvement is that, like the 1D MK IV, it probably represents a noise improvement in jpeg images due to improved in camera processing. We'd be lucky to get a 2/3 stop noise improvement in RAW.


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## Richard (Dec 26, 2010)

: 

I think that pretty much says it all


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## Norkusa (Dec 26, 2010)

Any chance of the Mk III being $2500 USD or less when it comes out or should I expect to pay around $3k for just the body?


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## x-vision (Dec 26, 2010)

Canon Rumors said:


> Itâ€™s highly unlikely Canon will introduce a 5D Mark III at CES.



+1.


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## 404z (Dec 26, 2010)

NO CES

CP+2011 2011/2/9-12
http://www.cpplus.jp/en/index.html

Canon Inc.President & COO Tsuneji Uchida 
http://www.canon.com/corp/outline/index.html

"Until now the Japanese camera maker, camera according to international events To showcase the many new products, 
events are also held in Japan Should be a destination "
http://pc.nikkeibp.co.jp/article/news/20090417/1014402/


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## Grendel (Dec 26, 2010)

RAW video is a nerds wet dream. 104Mb/s+ from a DSLR body ? Right.


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## kubelik (Dec 26, 2010)

Norkusa said:


> Any chance of the Mk III being $2500 USD or less when it comes out or should I expect to pay around $3k for just the body?



nork, to be frank, your guess is just as good as anybody else's here. nobody can even tell you for sure when a 5DIII will be released, nor what its specifications are, so I find it highly unlikely that anyone can give you even a remotely accurate picture of what the pricing on the camera will be.


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## unruled (Dec 26, 2010)

Grendel said:


> RAW video is a nerds wet dream. 104Mb/s+ from a DSLR body ? Right.



Yeah, whilst canon DIGIC chips have lots of processing power, there is no way in hell they are capable of RAW output. Not to mention what I think is even more important: a DSLR is a stills camera. Why would canon try to make such a huge effort (raw video) for a stills cam? 

Let them focus on more important dSLR issues, before anything video related.


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## spam (Dec 26, 2010)

unruled said:


> Yeah, whilst canon DIGIC chips have lots of processing power, there is no way in hell they are capable of RAW output. Not to mention what I think is even more important: a DSLR is a stills camera. Why would canon try to make such a huge effort (raw video) for a stills cam?
> 
> Let them focus on more important dSLR issues, before anything video related.



RAW output mean less processing, but higher bandwith requirements.


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## traveller (Dec 26, 2010)

This rumour is nearly there, but misses a few of the basic rules of made-up rumours; here's my take on how to make one up: 

Canon 5D MkIII to be announced early 2011

28MP -new breakthrough in S/N for Canon
4fps
1920Ã—1080 30/25/24 frame Video with manual audio levels, peaking and zebras
3:2 aspect ratio tilt/swivel screen
63 segment iFCL meter
Same AF as the 5D MkII -Canon believe that most users were satisfied with AF performance
+ a new feature for Canon EOS cameras

First, you must keep the date vague for a bit of longevity -if you give an exact date that is only weeks away you'll be quickly disproved. 

Note how an effective made-up rumour combines the believable (and totally expected) specifications with those that will cause excitement such as the S/N ratio BS (the video stuff that I don't really understand, but is easy to lift from any internet wish list). 

The controversial features need to be included: a tilt/swivel screen will split opinion between the 'must have for video' crowd and the 'likely to break and so not professional' elements. I've gone out on a limb with the statement that it will keep the 5D MkII's AF system; most people would find it incredulous that Canon would keep the most critisied feature of the MkII. Then again we've been shafted by Canon on so many previous occasions that the seed of disappointment will already be in their minds. 

Finally, you need to give a mystery feature -this both invites speculation as well as covering you against major new features that you missed.


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## OnteoEOS (Dec 26, 2010)

1st post here. I enjoy the rumor stuff 


I guess the following:

28/32MP CMOS Sensor
ISO from 100 and up to 102400 and one stop better than the Mark II (Native from 100 to 25600 ISO)
19 Points AF a la 7D
Flash and wireless trigger
Same screen as 550D
4.5 FPS
100% viewfinder
Digic V (just one)
Same Battery as 5D Mark II
Digital Level option
Still with Compact Flash but there will not be double Card reader.
Dedicated Video Button
Improved Auto ISO
Auto HDR
Video as usual with some few improvements to get rid of the jelly effect

I believe Canon will forget about the forced ISO 50 for once even if sometimes is helpful.


$3000 Price Point.


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## Admin US West (Dec 26, 2010)

Grendel said:


> RAW video is a nerds wet dream. 104Mb/s+ from a DSLR body ? Right.



I agree that it is unlikely, however, no one yet knows what the next new generation of digic processors can do. However, Red cameras have had RAW output, so it is possible if it is a priority.

Why would Canon want to do it? Sales is the answer. Sales of the 5D MK II far exceeded their forecasts, and professional videographers are using it for commercial videos. They do not buy just one, but by the dozen.

The potential for sales is not lost on Canon.


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## Bob Howland (Dec 26, 2010)

scalesusa said:


> Sales of the 5D MK II far exceeded their forecasts



What is your basis for saying that?


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## unruled (Dec 26, 2010)

scalesusa said:


> Grendel said:
> 
> 
> > RAW video is a nerds wet dream. 104Mb/s+ from a DSLR body ? Right.
> ...



I have the feeling (Ie. don't have facts to back it up), that dSLR use for videography is still very very niche... it is catching on.. but im not convinced its a big chunk of sales as of yet


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## EELinneman (Dec 26, 2010)

[list type=decimal]
[*]
[*]
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Bob Howland said:


> scalesusa said:
> 
> 
> > Sales of the 5D MK II far exceeded their forecasts
> ...



Looks like it's time to start saving some $$ for a new body and some of those hoodman 675x CF cards if we are going to be getting sustained 104mb/sec.


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## macfly (Dec 26, 2010)

The 5D Mkll is has been a runaway sales success way beyond Canon's expectaions. It is my understanding that that had no idea it would be such a hit, and also not planned for its success, which is what maybe side swiped the 1Ds line. The thing that has made it such a hit is its video ability, much, much more than it's stills ability. Thats what really took Canon by suprise. They are selling far more of them as video units than they are as still cameras, and it has created a hybrid market boom nobody really saw coming.

Have you guys seen Restrepo on the big screen? It is awesome, all all filmed on the 5D Mkll. The video quality is so good that they are now being used to folm TV show (House for one) and also as 'disposables' on many big budget feature films. They get put inside stunt vehicles, explosions, and other full destruction situations with the expectation that they'll be destroyed, all you need to recover is the card. Many big budget action films made today will 'consume' a dozen or 5D's during filming. 

http://restrepothemovie.com/


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## epitope (Dec 27, 2010)

I'm also looking forward to see if the dynamic range is improved. I'd trade 6-figure ISO for more DR any day of the week.


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## Bob Howland (Dec 27, 2010)

macfly said:


> The 5D Mkll is has been a runaway sales success way beyond Canon's expectaions.



I repeat my question - what is your basis for saying that? I'd like to see some data please.


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## macfly (Dec 27, 2010)

Doubt you'll get to see actual sales figures, but ask the camera shop who do business about its sales, and see who is your local area Canon rep, and talk to him. I don't think it is something they're hiding, if it was I wouldn't have found out about it. 

Lots of things in photography are unexpected, same is true in the case of the 5D Mkll. They thought it was just going to be another camera, a cool one for sure, but they didn't know it was the going to be 'the game changer'. It hit the market right as vimeo and youtube were ready for it on one end, and cinema on the other. It is quite likely to be remembered as the most significant camera of the digital revolution.


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## Aputure (Dec 27, 2010)

I would be very very happy with 2 stop noise improvement. But can they really pull that off at 28 megapixels? 

RAW video sounds interesting, but seems like it would take up TONS of space. 





Canon Rumors said:


> <strong>First 5D Mark III Spec List.</strong></p>
> <ul>
> <li>28 megapixel</li>
> <li>2 Stop Noise Improvement</li>
> ...


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## unruled (Dec 27, 2010)

macfly said:


> The 5D Mkll is has been a runaway sales success way beyond Canon's expectaions. It is my understanding that that had no idea it would be such a hit, and also not planned for its success, which is what maybe side swiped the 1Ds line. The thing that has made it such a hit is its video ability, much, much more than it's stills ability. Thats what really took Canon by suprise. They are selling far more of them as video units than they are as still cameras, and it has created a hybrid market boom nobody really saw coming.
> 
> Have you guys seen Restrepo on the big screen? It is awesome, all all filmed on the 5D Mkll. The video quality is so good that they are now being used to folm TV show (House for one) and also as 'disposables' on many big budget feature films. They get put inside stunt vehicles, explosions, and other full destruction situations with the expectation that they'll be destroyed, all you need to recover is the card. Many big budget action films made today will 'consume' a dozen or 5D's during filming.
> 
> http://restrepothemovie.com/



actually they only filmed that one house season finale with the 5d II.


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## NotABunny (Dec 27, 2010)

Aputure said:


> I would be very very happy with 2 stop noise improvement. But can they really pull that off at 28 megapixels?



Yes because the language implies noise improvement per image, not per pixel, so the resolution has no influence.


I do wonder how much of this is hardware improvement, and how much software.


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## epsiloneri (Dec 27, 2010)

epitope said:


> I'm also looking forward to see if the dynamic range is improved. I'd trade 6-figure ISO for more DR any day of the week.



I totally agree. I find the biggest problem for the image quality from a 5D2 to be its low-iso pattern noise (banding) that severely limits the dynamic range. 50D also has this problem (it's from the same generation). The 7D is way better in this respect, and I expect a 5D3 to be as well. See http://photography-on-the.net/forum/showthread.php?t=750731 for a detailed discussion.

Unfortunately, these rumoured specs do not look very credible... at all. I'm expecting a 5D3 no earlier than by the end of 2011. Hopefully together with a 24-70/2.8L IS


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## onekiel (Dec 27, 2010)

Any word on improved (faster) AF system for the 5D MKIII?...This is the _make or break_ issue for me with this camera.


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## Justin (Dec 27, 2010)

Raw video. This would be the feature that would keep the mark 2 sales pace going or even exceed it. For 3500 or less these cameras would fly off the shelf.



scalesusa said:


> Grendel said:
> 
> 
> > RAW video is a nerds wet dream. 104Mb/s+ from a DSLR body ? Right.
> ...


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## ronderick (Dec 28, 2010)

onekiel said:


> Any word on improved (faster) AF system for the 5D MKIII?...This is the _make or break_ issue for me with this camera.



I'd bet my money that'll be the first thing on Canon's 5D3 priority list.

However, we can keep our fingers crossed on whether they're going to use the 7D's AF system... :


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## peejay (Dec 28, 2010)

Better tonailty and colour. So more DR and 16 bit colour, for now, would be good.


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## richy (Dec 28, 2010)

+1 for more DR 

Re sales figures. I have no idea if it exceeded predicted demand but demand did outstrip supply for a long time, possibly because canon didn't predict demand or possibly because they restricted supply to reduce the impact on 1ds3 sales or just to produce hype (i.e. if its in short supply it must be awesome) but perhaps I'm just too cynical lol.

IIRC the season finale of house was at least partially shot with 5d2's due to their compact size and low light ability, but I think I also remember comments about it costing a fortune in post, I'm not a videographer or DP so I couldn't say lol It's sure been loved by many people.

Canon also make video cameras, quite decent ones costing many many pennies. I would imagine that canon are in no hurry to produce a 2.5k camera that not only canibalises 1ds sales but also their lucrative video business. I would love to be proved wrong, I have no evidence just guessing based on logic.

The same logic applies to the af. No real technical reason prevented the 5d2 having better af, it will have been deliberately offered with 'midrange' af to keep at least some kind of a reason to buy their 8k 1ds3. Canon are far from stupid (although the direct print button worship coupled with the resistance to a mlu button has me worried they may not be that far from it) and will have carefully mapped out their offerings to get the most money from the most number of people.

What suprises me is that Nikon who AFAIK have no video business have not been pushing video harder. 

Raw video is possible, perhaps we may even see two versions of a 5d3 with a higher priced one able to record longer video clips?

Couldn't agree more re the gains in noise being jpg not raw. When the d3s came out folks were posting web sized jpegs at a trillion iso but noone had the cahoonies to post a raw / nef at that iso, always some excuse about loosing some functionality etc. No doubt its a great camera, and post processing advances in nr are great but lets keep a fair baseline and check out the raw starting point.


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## Admin US West (Dec 28, 2010)

Actually, I saw a quote from one of the web sites from Canon, saying that they were caught by surprise at the sales volume. They also mention their suprise on their web site at the initial demand.

Even now, many camera sellers can not get enough for the Christmas demand and sell out in a few days after getting stock. I'm sure that they will all have them in stock after the holidays.

As to those saying that a company restricts production to increase demand, this is silly. Demand for the cameras was so strong as soon as they were announced that some sellers stopped taking pre-orders because they had so many that they knew they could not fill them all. 

The reason for shortages is simple, the sales department projects sales, components are ordered, and production of lot sizes to meet sales projections begins. Some parts are just in time delivered, but I have found that small cheap components are usually run off in large batches by subcontractors, and just held in inventory for just in time shipment to the manufacturer. If demand outstrips the production capability, there will be shortages, but the factory may be able to increase production rates a little due to the parts held in inventory by subcontractors. However, if the demand far outstrips the provisioning of components, then long lead components become a big problem. The production of the 21mp sensors is limited to factory time allocated, silicon wafer availibity, and production capacity of the actual machinery. They are undoubtedly made in batches, so there may not be a window open for another batch, and it requires replanning, acquisition of more raw materials, etc to speed up production.

I have over 30 years experience in product manufacturing, and every company I've delt with faces the same issues. You can not just simply increase production overnight.

The same applies to overproduction, it is usually less expensive to continue to overproduce for a limited time than to slow down or shut down a product assembly line. 
You did not see this with the 60D.


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## richy (Dec 28, 2010)

Well I'm terribly terribly sorry for daring to think out loud lol. I merely suggested one of several potential reasons, my initial comment supported your comments but I guess you missed that one  Demand surely outstripped supply and a likely reason for that is poor forecasting. Not the only reason, and given you provided no supporting facts I fail to see how any of the comments, yours included, is anything more than guess work (well it is a rumours site  ).
Doesn't it contradict your poor forecasting suggestion that years after production started they are still not making enough? Yes in some ways it doesn't make much sense to restrict supply, however a certain german car maker has been restricting supply to some models for a long time and as such has cars which appreciate after being sold. There are reasons for doing it, it has been done and it will be done again in the future. I have no idea if this was the case with the 5d2, I was just suggesting some possibilities. 
Perhaps you should suggest to canon they sack their sales forecasting team given after 3 years they cannot reliably predict demand. 
The ps3 and bluray drives were a perfect example of supply outstripping demand due to new technology being hard to scale, however in the face of demand productivity did scale. Just look at the iphone and how easy it is for apply to massively increase production every quarter (11m-14m-21m or something equally silly, they are allegedly ordering an extra 6 million cdma units for Q1 2011, thats a serious bump), it can be done in some circumstances (the ford s max is an example of it taking forever to ramp) under the right conditions. 
Given canon must be making money on a unit basis, you have to admit that they should be able by now to keep the thing in plentiful supply unless perhaps there is another reason? Unless they have diverted capacity elsewhere (they have added extra tiers, I have lost count how many different tiers they have these days)? Again, not intending to offend any sensibilities, just thinking out loud.


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## adminkatana (Dec 28, 2010)

How unlikely do you think it is a 5D Mark III will appear at CES.

I am about to buy a 7D, but if a 5D3 is just a few days away, it would be nicer to know the whole picture. Yet I also feel the need to buy the 7D now as my local shop has a good deal before the VAT rises in the UK.


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## Admin US West (Dec 28, 2010)

unruled said:


> scalesusa said:
> 
> 
> > Grendel said:
> ...


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## Bob Howland (Dec 28, 2010)

In addition to Canon still photography gear, I own a Panasonic TM700 video camera, which takes absolutely superb videos, given enough light, and really bad still images. First, its base ISO seems to be about 25, since its sensors are really small. Second, it uses individual sensors for red, green and blue, not a single Bayer sensor. Third, each sensor has slightly more than 2MP. A 1920x1080 video doesn't require a lot of pixels. Fourth, the control functionality in my video camera and in the newly introduced Canon XF100/105/300/305 models is nothing like the control functionality of a DSLR.

All of this leads me to question whether a 28MP FF DSLR is the optimum platform on which to build a state of the art video camera. My guess is that, instead of putting magical video capabilities in the 5DMkIII, Canon will introduce one or more state-of-the-art APS-C or APS-H video cameras, possibly taking interchangeable Canon EF and/or EF-S mount lenses and/or PL mount lenses. I further predict that the prices will take your breath away.


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## macfly (Dec 29, 2010)

By the way, it looks like the Canon may be about to get its first Oscar - Black Swan was made with a mix of 7D, 5D Mkll and 1Ds MklV as well as some Super 16.

http://www.alexandrosmaragos.com/2010/12/black-swan-canon-7d.html


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## BJNY (Dec 29, 2010)

Bob Howland said:


> macfly said:
> 
> 
> > The 5D Mkll is has been a runaway sales success way beyond Canon's expectaions.
> ...




Japanese 2010 System Camera Sales Analysis:
http://www.43rumors.com/japanaese-2010-system-camera-sales-analysis/


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## Jan (Dec 30, 2010)

BJNY said:


> Bob Howland said:
> 
> 
> > macfly said:
> ...


So that means, the 5DMkII sold well?


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## WarStreet (Dec 30, 2010)

BJNY said:


> Bob Howland said:
> 
> 
> > macfly said:
> ...



On my opinion, these numbers are fantastic for the 5DII. Usually, the cheaper items sells more. the 5DII is the only full frame in the list. I think the second most expensive item in the list is the 7d. If you consider that the d300 is not even in the list, and that the d700 must sell less than the d300 due to the price difference, it seems that the 5DII is dominating the FF market. The fact that the sales figures are similar to the cheaper 60D, it also shows the request of this camera.

I don't know if this is beyond Canon's expectation, but I am sure they are happy with the results. 

With these sales figures, and the fact that the 5DII has video, while the D700 don't, Canon might delay th replacement, and allow Nikon to act first and improve the 5DIII final model accordingly....... maybe ?


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## Canon 5D Mark II Team (Jan 1, 2011)

Jan said:


> BJNY said:
> 
> 
> > Bob Howland said:
> ...




Extremely well.


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## jonne (Jan 1, 2011)

Where does the 104Mb/s number come from?


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## Grendel (Jan 3, 2011)

(1920x1080x30fpsx14bit)/(8bit*1024b*1024b)


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## Bob Howland (Jan 3, 2011)

jonne said:


> Where does the 104Mb/s number come from?





Grendel said:


> (1920x1080x30fpsx14bit)/(8bit*1024b*1024b)



Then it should be 104MB/s, not 104Mb/s. Mb/s means megabits/sec. MB/s means megabytes/sec. One byte is 8 bits.


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## jonne (Jan 3, 2011)

Grendel said:


> (1920x1080x30fpsx14bit)/(8bit*1024b*1024b)



RAW data, if you are talking about raw video, doesn't have to include pixel data. It's not spitting out 30 uncompressed, ready-baked TIFFS/second, if that's what your numbers are based on. They could keep the current bitrate and still give us raw data from the sensor. It would be compressed, but all the other benefits of raw would be there. How realistic this is with the current chips, I don't know. Even if the only gain was white balance, I'd take it.


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## ronderick (Jan 4, 2011)

WarStreet said:


> With these sales figures, and the fact that the 5DII has video, while the D700 don't, Canon might delay th replacement, and allow Nikon to act first and improve the 5DIII final model accordingly....... maybe ?



I agree that the ball is in Nikon's court. Just like what sales figures are showing, 5DII is doing better than its counterpart D700 and Nikon still has to answer to the challenge in the field of affordable FF bodies. 

If Nikon doesn't answer, someone else (maybe other companies - say, the next SX Pro? or K-X body?:) would probably jump in and fill the niche. If the situation doesn't change, I'd say Canon (and people with 5D2) would be even happier with their current position.

We'll probably see a new D800 before we hear anything solid on the 5D3.


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## gbaturin (Jan 4, 2011)

Don't know about the rest of you people, but I'd really LOVE to have the option of buying a cutting edge FF DSLR without video capability, if the price difference is at least 500 dollars. I don't see the point in a video capable DSLR with virtually non-existent autofocus. If Canon released two versions of a 5D mark III (one with video, and a cheaper one without), they'd really make me a happy customer. I know some of you want to say GO BUY A NIKON D700, but that camera's outdated, not enough pixels on a FF body. The only thing still holding me back from buying a 5D Mark II is curiosity - I'd love to see what Nikon churns out in the coming months... And then see what Canon throws back at them ))) My 50D works just fine for me right now.


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## studio1972 (Jan 4, 2011)

gbaturin said:


> Don't know about the rest of you people, but I'd really LOVE to have the option of buying a cutting edge FF DSLR without video capability, if the price difference is at least 500 dollars. I don't see the point in a video capable DSLR with virtually non-existent autofocus. If Canon released two versions of a 5D mark III (one with video, and a cheaper one without), they'd really make me a happy customer. I know some of you want to say GO BUY A NIKON D700, but that camera's outdated, not enough pixels on a FF body. The only thing still holding me back from buying a 5D Mark II is curiosity - I'd love to see what Nikon churns out in the coming months... And then see what Canon throws back at them ))) My 50D works just fine for me right now.



Getting rid of the video capability wouldn't save any money, the few video specific components in the camera are very cheap. That's why the 5DII costs about the same as a D700. I can't see Canon ever introducing a new DSLR without video now.


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## WarStreet (Jan 4, 2011)

gbaturin said:


> I don't see the point in a video capable DSLR with virtually non-existent autofocus.



Due to the large sensor, the video capability of the 5DII is similar to cinema level, with a nice shallow depth of field, and low noise in low light. I think the difficulty of autofucus is due to the shallow depth of field. It is easier to focus FF equivalent shorter focal length lens on a smaller sensor such as a camcorder. Also, due to the large sensor, this is meant for pro use, and in pro video as far as I know, manual focus is used alot. Final episode of House has been shot with the 5DII, and now there are commercial spots being shot with it too. For those into video, they say the 5DII is revolutionary. Search for the subject, and you can find lots of talented amateur videos with this camera, and also pro commercial shots.


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## Bob Howland (Jan 4, 2011)

WarStreet said:


> gbaturin said:
> 
> 
> > I don't see the point in a video capable DSLR with virtually non-existent autofocus.
> ...



And then there are people who think like this:

http://prolost.com/blog/2009/12/3/you-didnt-believe-me.html
http://prolost.com/blog/2010/9/2/ha-ha-very-funny-canon-now-get-back-to-work.html


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## kubelik (Jan 6, 2011)

Bob, yes Stu points out a lot of faults with the current breed of video implementation in DSLR cameras. And they're totally valid and accurate points.

But he still uses them. Frequently. That speaks louder than words.


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## Peerke (Jan 6, 2011)

studio1972 said:


> gbaturin said:
> 
> 
> > Don't know about the rest of you people, but I'd really LOVE to have the option of buying a cutting edge FF DSLR without video capability, if the price difference is at least 500 dollars. I don't see the point in a video capable DSLR with virtually non-existent autofocus. If Canon released two versions of a 5D mark III (one with video, and a cheaper one without), they'd really make me a happy customer. I know some of you want to say GO BUY A NIKON D700, but that camera's outdated, not enough pixels on a FF body. The only thing still holding me back from buying a 5D Mark II is curiosity - I'd love to see what Nikon churns out in the coming months... And then see what Canon throws back at them ))) My 50D works just fine for me right now.
> ...



I don't believe that getting rit of video won't make things cheaper. If you read all the posts here how to improve video on DSLR's, I guess a lot of research has to be done. That is research money which has to be paid back by the buyers of the camera.

Heck, even the new power focus mode on the new tele lenses are there for video and made these lenses partly more expensive. :'(


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 6, 2011)

Peerke said:


> I don't believe that getting rit of video won't make things cheaper. If you read all the posts here how to improve video on DSLR's, I guess a lot of research has to be done. That is research money which has to be paid back by the buyers of the camera.
> 
> Heck, even the new power focus mode on the new tele lenses are there for video and made these lenses partly more expensive. :'(



The original suggestion of having a no-video option won't make things cheaper. If Canon offered a 5DIII with no video and a 5DIII-v with video, the R&D for putting video in would still be needed and already baked into the cost of both versions. You could even argue that developing two separate products with just that difference would even be more costly, and raise the price of both models. Likewise, with the new supertele lenses, setting up production lines for video and still versions would be impractical and costly. 

You're right in one sense - if Canon abandoned dSLR video entirely, R&D costs would drop and prices could (but not necessarily _would_) be lower. Mathematically speaking, the probability of that happening is somewhat lower than the reciprocal of the US national debt.


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## Jan (Jan 6, 2011)

Peerke said:


> Heck, even the new power focus mode on the new tele lenses are there for video and made these lenses partly more expensive. :'(


What is power focus? Are you shure only video benefits from that?


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 6, 2011)

Jan said:


> What is power focus? Are you shure only video benefits from that?



Power Focusing (PF): A new Power Focusing mode (PF) has been added to the focus mode switch on both the 300mm and 400mm IS II lenses. This feature is primarily intended for use by videographers. It allows manual rack focusing to be operated smoothly and silently by turning the playback ring normally used for the focus preset function. Power Focusing can be operated at low or high speed, depending on how far the playback ring is turned.

From here.


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## Peerke (Jan 7, 2011)

Absolutely right Neuroanatomist. That is why I never liked the video option. When it appeared people were telling that it was only minor costs, because the signal was there and it was only peanuts to put in some electronics and software to make the signal a video. Everybody very happy. For a few dollars extra a video and a still camera. Than the Steven Spielbergs came with extra wishes for video. Higher FPS, better AF etc.

Now Canon and others are committed to video and they don't have a choice but putting more and more research into it. The AF of my 7D is working fine (for stills that is), but I'm sure Canon is putting money in the development of a different AF to put in an even more video capable 7DII and other models. Nice for our friends, the Spielbergs, but for my part, Canon could better spend that research on higher DR and low noise performance.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 7, 2011)

Peerke said:


> That is why I never liked the video option...Nice for our friends, the Spielbergs, but for my part, Canon could better spend that research on higher DR and low noise performance.



Well said!


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## studio1972 (Jan 7, 2011)

The money Canon spends on developing and implementing video specific features is presumably more than offset by the extra sales canon makes to people who want them. This is not a very difficult concept to understand. 

Just look at the pricing of the 5DII vs the D700, the 5DII isn't any more expensive than the canon despite having the video feature. If they scrapped this feature the camera wouldn't be cheaper, in fact the price may well go up!


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## kubelik (Jan 7, 2011)

Neuro, I find that my views often coincide with yours, but not on this point. I think the photo-video convergence isn't something artifically forced into existence by canon; rather, they had a good read on the direction the industry was moving in and got a great jump on it.

In terms of the ideal use of r+d resources, I'd like to propose an analogy to another market that delivers similarly complex, multifunction machines- the auto industry. If we think of cars twenty years ago, they were relatively spartan devices that revolved pretty much around an engine, chassis, suspension, and simple cabin comforts like air conditioning. Since then, based on market analysis and the desire to produce unique product, manufacturers have introduced dashboard computers, power seats, entertainment systems, panoramic sunroofs, bluetooth voice recognition software ... none of which really contributes at all to the process of driving a car. Yet at the same time, they've also improved by leaps and bounds in engine, suspension, and chassis technology. Would a BMW 3-series be getting 40 mpg if BMW weren't wasting engineers on fixing the horrid iDrive software?

While opportunity cost always exists, I don't think its always so simple. As studio observes, without video implementation the 5D mark ii may very well not have brought in as much money for canon to reinvest in new technology. We can't know for sure. I am firmly of the belief that canon can improve video quality as well as stills performance at the same time. Besides, better DR and lower noise improves video image quality just like it improves photo IQ ... so again, its not a mutually exclusive use of resources on canon's part.


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## WarStreet (Jan 7, 2011)

studio1972 said:


> The money Canon spends on developing and implementing video specific features is presumably more than offset by the extra sales canon makes to people who want them.





kubelik said:


> As studio observes, without video implementation the 5D mark ii may very well not have brought in as much money for canon to reinvest in new technology.



I was going to say the same thing, but you two managed to say it in a much better way 

Regarding video quality, there will always be possibility of improvement. During these years, digital photography is improving rapidly, and still after pixel peeping, one will always find something wrong. If you consider that this is the first attempt of video in DSLR, the quality of video was still good enough to be used in pro productions. It also gave the Spielberg wannabe a possibility to express their artistic abilities with a good quality/price ratio not available before.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 7, 2011)

kubelik said:


> Besides, better DR and lower noise improves video image quality just like it improves photo IQ ... so again, its not a mutually exclusive use of resources on canon's part.



I do agree, and I'm not rabidly anti-video even though I use my cameras primarily for still shooting. But I am a bit frustrated that lots of R&D money is going to higher and higher pixel densities and improved video features, and less to DR increases and ISO noise reduction. However, even that's an oversimplification since as the pixel densities have been increased, noise has not increased in parallel - that's partly physics, but partly due to improved NR performance.


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## niko (Jan 7, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> I do agree, and I'm not rabidly anti-video even though I use my cameras primarily for still shooting. But I am a bit frustrated that lots of R&D money is going to higher and higher pixel densities and improved video features, and less to DR increases and ISO noise reduction. However, even that's an oversimplification since as the pixel densities have been increased, noise has not increased in parallel - that's partly physics, but partly due to improved NR performance.



I believe Canon (as well as other manufacturers) need to carefully consider the allocation of their R&D budgets in order to provide the biggest improvement (in specific areas) in the next gen products (after all, this is what is going to entice the consumer to upgrade their current equipment). 
Video opened up an untapped market segment (in DSLRs) and provides the biggest bang for the buck since it is currently 1st (ish) gen while ISO and DR are pretty mature and already at very good levels.

I am not saying that Canon would be (or should be) abandoning completely the ISO and DR (sensor) improvements, and we probably will see improvement in both areas, but that is probably not the greatest selling point.


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## bvukich (Jan 7, 2011)

niko said:


> I am not saying that Canon would be (or should be) abandoning completely the ISO and DR (sensor) improvements, and we probably will see improvement in both areas, but that is probably not the greatest selling point.



Not the greatest selling point for whom?

They may not realize it, but even for the theoretical "video only" user, sensor improvements will probably benefit them greater than any other single area.


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## Admin US West (Jan 7, 2011)

bvukich said:


> niko said:
> 
> 
> > I am not saying that Canon would be (or should be) abandoning completely the ISO and DR (sensor) improvements, and we probably will see improvement in both areas, but that is probably not the greatest selling point.
> ...



The reason I bought the 5D MK II was the low light performance and reasonable pixel density. Certainly all the features are important, and everyone buys for a different reason or combination of reasons.

The only thing that would make me want to upgrade my 5D MK II would be noticibly better ISO and DR. if everything else remained the same, I'd upgrade.


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## niko (Jan 7, 2011)

scalesusa said:


> bvukich said:
> 
> 
> > niko said:
> ...



My point was that sometimes there are very large expectations for the 5D, which will probably never materialize, certainly it will not be a "Lord of Darkness" and will not offer MF DR (nor does it need to).

The 5d appeals to a large user base - which is perhaps its greatest selling point, and my expectation for the next gen camera is to offer greater improvements to the video oriented user, while offering smaller improvements to the stills user (since the camera is already very good in this category).


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## Admin US West (Jan 8, 2011)

niko said:


> My point was that sometimes there are very large expectations for the 5D, which will probably never materialize, certainly it will not be a "Lord of Darkness" and will not offer MF DR (nor does it need to).
> 
> The 5d appeals to a large user base - which is perhaps its greatest selling point, and my expectation for the next gen camera is to offer greater improvements to the video oriented user, while offering smaller improvements to the stills user (since the camera is already very good in this category).



I wasn't disagreeing with you. I hope there are improvements in video features like adding usable autofocus, but I don't really expect it. I do expect improved DR and ISO, and perhaps a slightly higher pixel count. I also expect 7D type autofocus.


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## remy.brooks (Jan 15, 2011)

At the end of the year i'm going to buy nearly $8000 worth of camera gear (including the mk ii.) If the Mk iii is going to be much more of $2500 im not going for it and just buying a enthusiast camera. It would be stupid of canon to make the mk iii anymore than $3000 so i don't think we have to worry about that...


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## Jan (Jan 15, 2011)

Peerke said:


> Than the Steven Spielbergs came with extra wishes for video. Higher FPS, better AF etc.
> [...]
> Nice for our friends, the Spielbergs, but for my part, Canon could better spend that research on higher DR and low noise performance.


No Spielberg will use AF when filming.
But: Spielberg would be glad about higher DR and better low light performance.


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