# EOS 5D Mark III Replacement Talk [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 9, 2015)

```
<p>We’re told that the next EOS 5D will come in three different versions. Two of the cameras named “EOS 5Ds” would be the high megapixel cameras with a resolution of 53mp. One of the cameras would have an AA filter and other would not. We’ve heard this sort of thing before, <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2014/11/another-50mp-ff-dslr-mention-cr2/" target="_blank">except the language used previously was one camera would have a low pass filter, and the other would not.</a> I do like the naming “EOS 5Ds”, as that may finally put to rest the “EOS 3D” moniker which has been around longer than this site has. There is also precedent on the “S” naming from the days of the “EOS-1D” and “EOS-1DS”.</p>
<p>The third camera would be an EOS 5D Mark IV, which would continue on the path of a lower megapixel event, sports, wildlife focused full frame camera. If this is true, I don’t believe all 3 cameras would come at the same time.</p>
<p>For the time being, there are no plans for a high resolution EOS-1 body style. However, expect the build quality of any 5D replacement to be top notch.</p>
<p>Personally, if they don’t make a high resolution EOS-1D style body, I do hope that a “5Ds” has the top plate of an EOS-1D.</p>
<p>More to come…</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


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## AmselAdans (Jan 9, 2015)

I assume the High-MP variants to feature fewer FPS due to the high amount of data.
What other differences could be between the High- and Low-MP variants?


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## Maximilian (Jan 9, 2015)

I hope, Canon does not mess up with all these versions.

OTOH they'll deliver a "take the one you need" convenience. Good for the customer.


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## Maximilian (Jan 9, 2015)

AmselAdans said:


> I assume the High-MP variants to feature fewer FPS due to the high amount of data.
> What other differences could be between the High- and Low-MP variants?


FPS, high ISO modes (or not), AF features... (still thinking)


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## Cosmicbug (Jan 9, 2015)

Slight improvements on DR, FPS, AF, HIGH ISO noise and a few mpx more from the 5DIII. This would give me my next perfect workhorse.


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## ewg963 (Jan 9, 2015)

Cool beans


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## baervan (Jan 9, 2015)

Uh interesting news. It sounds weird thought that after a very thin and spread out releasing policy now they come up with not 1 but 3 new models, some of them with the "hey choose the one you like best!".. 

usually they always operate under the "take this or leave it policy" (or better "take this or take this cause you already have invested in our lenses"). this could be a welcome change of mindset for the company.


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## docsmith (Jan 9, 2015)

Works for me. A true replacement for the 5DIII (which I would consider) with similar price and image file size and then the "3D" but called the 5Ds that essentially are answers to the D800. I would expect the 5Ds to be lower production higher priced cameras compared to the 5DIV.


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## sanj (Jan 9, 2015)

It is not time for 5d4 yet. 5d3s yes.


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## ewg963 (Jan 9, 2015)

baervan said:


> Uh interesting news. It sounds weird thought that after a very thin and spread out releasing policy now they come up with not 1 but 3 new models, some of them with the "hey choose the one you like best!"..
> 
> usually they always operate under the "take this or leave it policy" (or better "take this or take this cause you already have invested in our lenses"). this could be a welcome change of mindset for the company.


+100000000000000000000000000000000 Great points there


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## AmselAdans (Jan 9, 2015)

baervan said:


> "take this or take this cause you already have invested in our lenses"



gold ;D


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 9, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Canon must be desperate to avoid using the name "3D" and "4D" if it will use "5Ds" instead.
> 
> It went from having (1D, 1Ds) -> 1DX to deal with market confusion.
> 
> ...



I don't think "1DX" was to avoid market confusion. With the death of APS-H, it made no sense to keep the "EOS-1D" name. Since there wasn't going to be 2 version of the flagship camera, the name "1Ds" was no longer wanted or needed as it was synonymous with high resolution, which the 1D X isn't.

The problem with the name "3D" is obvious.

"4D" is possible, but I think the marketing muscle behind "5D", their most successful full frame camera would be welcomed.


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## GMCPhotographics (Jan 9, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Canon must be desperate to avoid using the name "3D" and "4D" if it will use "5Ds" instead.
> 
> It went from having (1D, 1Ds) -> 1DX to deal with market confusion.
> 
> ...



I'm wondering why Canon haven't considered using X in the 5D name. 
A 5D mk IV for the current lineage of camera. Mid density sensor - fast frame rate - uber versatile and fully featured spec and AF. So basically a un upgrade of the existing 5DIII.
Then a second camera - a 5Dx mk IV to sit in a niche next to the existing camera linage with a high MP, low frame rate camera which is basically the 5D4 but with an exchange of MP for frame rate. Don't bother with an AA filter for this puppy.
It makes sense to me...personally...my 5DIII's are doing a great job. A 5D4 needs some killer features for me to consider upgrading. Which at the moment, I don't have an obvious need.


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## Cosmicbug (Jan 9, 2015)

A 5DmkIV evolved from the mkIII..24-26Mpx with 8FPS 
A 53MP 5Ds would make a great complementary camera for studio, large groups, architecture and landscapes. 
I like the idea that not one camera does all and that cameras are more dedicated to a specific genre. (Sony and Nikon are going that way and it seems Canon started this with the 1Dx and 7Dmk2

Expensive duo but will probably satisfy me for a while commercially and in my hobby


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 9, 2015)

> One of the cameras would have an AA filter and other would not. We’ve heard this sort of thing before, *except* we were told previously one would have a low pass filter, and the other would not.



AA filter = OLPF = optical low-pass filter. So, you were told the same thing twice.


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## Murilo_mms (Jan 9, 2015)

That´s all I wanted to hear!!! 

I don´t want 53MP but I do want improved metering and more auto focus points (all crossed) like 7DII.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 9, 2015)

Although I would certainly prefer 1-series high MP body, I would consider a high MP 5-series as a travel camera... I would likely get the version with the AA filter, since architecture causes problems with moiré. 

I wonder if Canon would truly omit the AA filter, or do what Nikon did initially and use a non-functional AA filter. I suspect the latter, as that would simplify (i.e. make cheaper) the manufacturing/assembly process.


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## [email protected] (Jan 9, 2015)

This looks like an excellent decision by Canon and if you don't want to shoot the full 50mp+ you can always use
MRaw (36mp ?) and Sraw (12mp ?) and the fps may be around the 4-5mp which will be good. 

Be good if they could do an electronic Anti-Alias option that you could turn on and off on the camera and hopefully the MK 4 will come with 4K Video which is coming more and more common.

One thing is for sure we will need to look at our PC / Mac computer systems to possibly update them, e.g., larger hard disks, etc.


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## xps (Jan 9, 2015)

A big jump from 22 to 53MP. 4-5 fps are ok if landscape or studio orientated. 
But which price will we have to pay for it?
I read an fb posting, that it will be between the 5DIII & 1DX. Nearer to the 1DX. I hope this was an "troll" posting.
But Canon will we proud of having the chance to milk us as much as they can ....

But - if payable - great news.


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## xps (Jan 9, 2015)

Question: At Sony rumors forum they wrote, that the next lenses for the coming high MP Sony body will have to move upwards in the resolution.
Do the existing Canon lenses have this higher resolution, or is the posting rubbish?


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## jdramirez (Jan 9, 2015)

I don't know why I care.... I've decided not to get the mkiv... And wait until the mkv... ugh...


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## sublime LightWorks (Jan 9, 2015)

Anybody want to guess at the various prices of these models?

Personally, the 53mp for background shooting and some detailed studio work is what I would be looking at, the question is the AA filter version or the non-AA filter version. Thinking the AA version to be safe and maintain my post-processing and compositing workflow without adding moire concerns.

I usually shoot my backgrounds with the 5D3 for the extra pixels and hybrid HDR processing and use my 1DX for everything else. Had been considering going to a used medium format Phase One with a 40mp back, but the news that a big megapixel may finally be coming changed that. Really did not want to have to setup a second shooting platform, so am hoping the detail captured by this new 53mp 5Ds will meet my requirements.

And here's to hoping the low ISO banding noise is gone.


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## Marsu42 (Jan 9, 2015)

xps said:


> Question: At Sony rumors forum they wrote, that the next lenses for the coming high MP Sony body will have to move upwards in the resolution. Do the existing Canon lenses have this higher resolution, or is the posting rubbish?



Canon lenses get "better" in resolution after time, i.e. as in "more adequate for the current sensors". Alas, they still get more expensive even with tech development and mass production.

As argued in a lot of threads, there is no "outresolving", but there certainly is an economy of what lens makes sense with what sensor resolution. For example, I wouldn't burden a 50mp+ sensor with my 17-40L which is just fine for my 20MP 6d.

My guess is that Canon will continuing updating their lens lineup before releasing a high res body as they did with the 24-70L2, 16-35L-IS, 100-400L2, ...


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## RLPhoto (Jan 9, 2015)

It'd have to be a really awesome camera to make me spend more monies from my mk3. I mean no hold outs from canon. Built in RT, swappable focus screens, 4k video, new AF and metering from 7d2, DPAF, touch-screen, all at the same mk3 release price of $3499.


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## Marsu42 (Jan 9, 2015)

RLPhoto said:


> It'd have to be a really awesome camera to make me spend more monies from my mk3.



Hey, weren't you the one saying the same thing about the 5d1 until just before you upgraded  ?


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## xps (Jan 9, 2015)

RLPhoto said:


> It'd have to be a really awesome camera to make me spend more monies from my mk3. I mean no hold outs from canon. *Built in RT, swappable focus screens, 4k video, new AF and metering from 7d2, DPAF, touch-screen, all at the same mk3 release price of $3499.*



+100 if 3499.... But I do more believe in 4500-5000


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## MacPaul (Jan 9, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> We’re told that the next EOS 5D will come in three different versions.


No matter which versions we will see, if Canon not dramatically improves their sensor IQ (see 7D Mk. II review on DP), they don't have to make these in the first place.


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## PureClassA (Jan 9, 2015)

Good God, where do we even start with this one.... 3 models bearing the name of the sacred FIVE? Starting to feel like Canon is taking the spaghetti approach, throwing everything against the wall to see what sticks.

I guess this will depends largely just how distinct each of the three are, but sounds like a Sony Alpha 7 line thinking.

Neuro or anyone else who knows more than I, Why could Canon not just create an AA filter build that could be turned ON or OFF at will? If Canon could install a sensor design with a non-functional low-pass to save manufacturing variance costs.... why couldn't we have just ONE high res 5Ds with an on/off switch??


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## RLPhoto (Jan 9, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > It'd have to be a really awesome camera to make me spend more monies from my mk3.
> ...


Yup. 5d1----> 5D3(held out on buying a 5d2 for along time) and it's very likely it will be 5d3---> 5D5 if it doesn't have those things.

And even when the MK3 was released, I waited until the price was ripe @ $2499 before I bought it. I can wait and make money just fine with the mk3 as I did with the 5d1 at the time.


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## DavidA (Jan 9, 2015)

Several things: 

1. I understand the need for a mid/high res versions of the 5dIV, but why would Canon adopt a AA/no AA strategy when it was not been effective for Nikon? Carrying the three sku's (not counting kits) creates a significant amount of development, testing marketing, training and inventory overhead.
2. If Canon goes this route, I hope they will create a hardware/software platform that provides a consistent UI and shooting experience for the photographer. You can easily provide a single UI with unique capabilities exposed/grayed out in the menu system. I think a lot of people shoot multiple Canon cameras and would appreciate as much consistency as possible. For example, I would love for Canon to release a new 5dIII firmware update that would incorporate some the 7dII button mapping capabilities (One Shot on the AF-On button and AI Servo on *. 
3. At 50+ MP I am assuming I will not need the AA filter for wildlife & landscapes unless Canon fails in some fashion.


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## razbo (Jan 9, 2015)

Maybe 4k will be introduced for the 5D MK4,


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## lintoni (Jan 9, 2015)

jdramirez said:


> I don't know why I care.... I've decided not to get the mkiv... And wait until the mkv... ugh...


Same here (new lenses are more of a priority at the moment), but I am eagerly waiting to see what Canon come up with...


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## privatebydesign (Jan 9, 2015)

Sounds like a Nikonesque hail Mary kind of move to me, which I'd find surprising from ever conservative and cautious Canon.

I can see a 5D MkIV (updated mid 20's MP) and a 5Ds ( 5D MkIV with new high MP sensor), even a 5Dc (cinema not 'classic', with 4k and all the other stuff people claim to need but at this point is all but unusable or viewable), but I'd be very surprised if they came out with two versions of the high MP sensor with and without an AA filter.

Indeed the 5Ds makes a lot of sense, many 1DS users didn't like the bulk and for much studio and landscape use it wasn't needed.


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## PureClassA (Jan 9, 2015)

razbo said:


> Maybe 4k will be introduced for the 5D MK4,



Sure. Then they'll cripple the HDMI output just like all the others so you cant ever get a truly clean signal to an external 4K Shogun.... This is how they protect the 1DC and Cinema EOS lines. You'll be right back to Magic Lantern, but at 4K there wont be a card big enough to get more than 5 mins of 4k RAW anway since ML only suports internal recording. 

Speculation City here today folks! ;D


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## Marsu42 (Jan 9, 2015)

DavidA said:


> 1. I understand the need for a mid/high res versions of the 5dIV, but why would Canon adopt a AA/no AA strategy when it was not been effective for Nikon? Carrying the three sku's (not counting kits) creates a significant amount of development, testing marketing, training and inventory overhead.



I'm no expert on Nikon gear, but afaik the reason why they don't release an "e" model anymore like with the d800 is because they were *successful* with it and now all models like the d810 have a weak aa filter?



DavidA said:


> I think a lot of people shoot multiple Canon cameras and would appreciate as much consistency as possible.



Canon is big on consistency and user experience, though they have different lines (multicontroller/consumer 70d-6d and pro/joystick 7d2-5d3/1d). If you're missing some fw features, suggest it in their own forum, they might very well incorporate this change in an update.



DavidA said:


> 3. At 50+ MP I am assuming I will not need the AA filter for wildlife & landscapes unless Canon fails in some fashion.



In any case, the effect of the removal of the aa filter seems to be overrated and is only important for pixel-peeping some specific scenes - and even *with* an aa filter post-processing sharpening will give you a comparable result.


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## Sunnystate (Jan 9, 2015)

This is what, I don't understand, holding to 18-22 MP sensors for almost a decade and than over leap everybody else? What is the purpose of that? Just to exaggerate all the drawbacks of high MP camera? Why not just modest (?) 36-42MP with decent performance, like good buffer, writing speed, FPS etc? Users will fall hard on the reality of lens performance shortcomings, storage and time required to process the files. 

Than the system of three models of the same camera suggests that Canon will most likely stick to the philosophy of overpricing for premium technology. 
In the end sensor performance will really be the most important factor, if we get the same performance as to date just with double or triple the pixels, no thank you again Canon, I skipped buying Canon gear for few generations already (still keeping lenses), terrible Sony A7r suits me very well...


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## Orangutan (Jan 9, 2015)

sanj said:


> It is not time for 5d4 yet. 5d3s yes.



It's time if/when Canon believes The Market requires it.


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## Marsu42 (Jan 9, 2015)

Sunnystate said:


> This is what, I don't understand, holding to 18-22 MP sensors for almost a decade and than over leap everybody else? What is the purpose of that?



1. Marketing - you need to be the spec leader to make a splash, and that's that.

2. Tradeoff sensitivity vs. resolution. By going to say ~30mp with the current tech you'll get the *worst* of both worlds, neither medium-format res nor high iso capability. And if you look at the actual image *dimensions*, 22/24/30mp is all a wash, you need to make a real jump for a difference that, well, makes a difference in actual usability.


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## Coldhands (Jan 9, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> Neuro or anyone else who knows more than I, Why could Canon not just create an AA filter build that could be turned ON or OFF at will? If Canon could install a sensor design with a non-functional low-pass to save manufacturing variance costs.... why couldn't we have just ONE high res 5Ds with an on/off switch??



This is akin to asking for an ND filter that can be switched on/off. AA is an optical filter, not something done electronically.


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## Orangutan (Jan 9, 2015)

MacPaul said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > We’re told that the next EOS 5D will come in three different versions.
> ...


Why do you say so? Canon has been more successful than Nikon or Sony despite their better low-ISO IQ. Why do you believe The Market has changed?


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## Sabaki (Jan 9, 2015)

Would an effort like this by Canon be

a) A multitude of viable ideas that cannot unfortunately "fit" into a single body, without compromising other performance aspects?

b) Succumbing to market pressure and expanding their existing DSLR lineup in an effort to please all?

I'm just looking for a full frame body that can nail focus on moving subjects, like dancers and performers indoors in lower light and also allow me to take amazing landscapes.

This may just be the most interesting development in a long while


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## cfargo (Jan 9, 2015)

baervan said:


> usually they always operate under the "take this or leave it policy" (or better "take this or take this cause you already have invested in our lenses"). this could be a welcome change of mindset for the company.



You can always do like so many of us are doing and get a Sony A7R or A7S with a Metabones adapter and use you Canon Glass. Sure the Sony's are good for sports but Landscape and Portraits they are awesome. I really enjoy the Lighter Weight, Higher Megapixels and the Greater Dynamic Range my A7R has over my 5DMK III.


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## RustyTheGeek (Jan 9, 2015)

RLPhoto said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > RLPhoto said:
> ...



I think *RLPhoto* and I think in the same way and we have followed similar upgrade paths. I used my 5D and skipped the 5D2 on purpose, then waited about a year to buy my 5D3 after its release. Plus, I would like to see what the 6D2 is before I jump.

What I fear is they will put truly coveted features like internal RT only in the highest priced 5Ds model to try and force you to buy the highest priced version. I doubt I'll be too interested in the high MP version but I definitely want the other features that could improve the overall experience and workflow.


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## Sanaraken (Jan 9, 2015)

53MP really interest me, but I have no use for it. Im just waiting for the 5DIV to come out. So I can get a second 5DIII when the prices go hit 2k.


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## Marsu42 (Jan 9, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> "4D" is possible



Not so: 4 is a no-go in Asian markets, just as there's no PowerShot G4. There's even a word for it  " *tetraphobia*": https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numbers_in_Chinese_culture#Four

There's a reason why the software biz dropped this naming/numbering game and simply used "Office 2007" and so on. Maybe it's time for a "5d 2015"  ... at least with Rebel's they might run out of numbers rather sooner than later.


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## InterMurph (Jan 9, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> a 5Dc (cinema not 'classic', with 4k and all the other stuff people claim to need but at this point is all but unusable or viewable),


I claim to need this. I bought a Panasonic GH4 for its 4K recording capabilities, and I claim that I love it. 

I claim that the 4K video allows me to zoom and crop in post-production to get just the shot I want, with much more detail than is available from my 5D Mark III.

And I claim that I can view this 4K video on my 2.5K monitor just fine.


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## PureClassA (Jan 9, 2015)

Coldhands said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > Neuro or anyone else who knows more than I, Why could Canon not just create an AA filter build that could be turned ON or OFF at will? If Canon could install a sensor design with a non-functional low-pass to save manufacturing variance costs.... why couldn't we have just ONE high res 5Ds with an on/off switch??
> ...



Ok, I guess I dont understand then how, as Neuro earlier alluded to, would they be able to produce a "non functional" low pass filter to keep production variances to a minimum. That's why I was asking. And do not many upper end cameras for video and film have ND filters built in that CAN be switched on and off?


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 9, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> > One of the cameras would have an AA filter and other would not. We’ve heard this sort of thing before, *except* we were told previously one would have a low pass filter, and the other would not.
> 
> 
> 
> AA filter = OLPF = optical low-pass filter. So, you were told the same thing twice.



I corrected the language.


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## Khnnielsen (Jan 9, 2015)

There is no mention of video features in the rumor. It will be interesting to see whether Canon will acknowledge that people are using their DSLRs for video and make a true hybrid camera like the GH4. My guess is that they are too protective of their CXX line, so it will lack some of the basic video features.


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## Coldhands (Jan 9, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> Coldhands said:
> 
> 
> > PureClassA said:
> ...



I can't claim to speak for Neuro, but he may be referring to using clear glass (instead of the usual birefringent material) in order to maintain the same sensor stack thickness, or perhaps for other reasons.

The cameras you're probably thinking of have ND filters that can be inserted/retracted, as opposed to being switched on/off.


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## Khnnielsen (Jan 9, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> Coldhands said:
> 
> 
> > PureClassA said:
> ...



Yes, some video cameras have built in ND filters, which work by flipping a lever that rotates a graduated ND filter. I think that it would be difficult to adapt such a mechanical solution in a DSLR for an AA filter.


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## Joe M (Jan 9, 2015)

This makes far more sense than the previous talk of the 5D3 going to high mpx in the next version. I figured that would be the case when first mentioned. As far as what they want to call all these variations, I think it'll be tricky. Personally, I think all the names (numbers) of the various cameras are tricky enough as it is. I guess you can go 5D3, 5D4, and keep adding digits until you hit 5D27 (if that would even fit on the camera badge). I'm waiting to see what happens when the 90D comes out. Then it's 100D, 110D...? 
In any case, whatever the names, as long as a body similar to the current 5D3 continues, I'm ok with that. The next iteration will have to be a big leap though as the 5D3 is serving me pretty well.


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## Maiaibing (Jan 9, 2015)

More choices are always better. But Canon is in a difficult position which speaks against having anything more than one 5DIV out there. I fail to see that Canon is in a situation that they can allow themsleves to spread incremental improvements thin accross the board and forego the very best they can deliver in an attempt to regain the high ground. 

A high megapix 5DIV is not competing with the 5DIII. Its competing to outshine the D750 and outdo the D810. So anything short of 5 fps, less AF points, DR, lower iso etc. is a no-go. Canon simply can not afford to leave aside the very best they can deliver in all areas compared to where the competition is today.

When it comes to speed 5DIII is not a fast shooter with its 6 fps. Should Canon not be able to do at least as much with a high megapix camera when Nikon's D810 already does 5fps? The D750 - practically a discount camera compared to the 5DIII - does 7.5 fps!

Canon was stunned when Nikon produced the D800 at a lower price than the 5DIII. I am certain Canon is doing everything they can to reverse that situation with the 5DIV. Just throwing a lot of pixels into a box will not cut it when all indications are that Nikon has a 40+ megapix upgrade to the D810 in the making.


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## PureClassA (Jan 9, 2015)

Khnnielsen said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > Coldhands said:
> ...



Yes, built in ND filters are a mechanical switch. I guess I should have clarified that if a low pass / AA filter is itse;f an optical device, could it not also somehow be made to operate in some similar fashio. Or is it something that MUST be embedded into the sensor build itself? Neuro sounds like he is speaking of something embedded that possibly could be manufactured into the same sensor but made non-functional to effectively by pass it as if it were not there. If so, then why could that component not be made user switchable either electronically or mechanically?


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## Eldar (Jan 9, 2015)

I have a strong feeling that this (these) thing(s) will impress our socks off!


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## PureClassA (Jan 9, 2015)

Joe M said:


> This makes far more sense than the previous talk of the 5D3 going to high mpx in the next version. I figured that would be the case when first mentioned. As far as what they want to call all these variations, I think it'll be tricky. Personally, I think all the names (numbers) of the various cameras are tricky enough as it is. I guess you can go 5D3, 5D4, and keep adding digits until you hit 5D27 (if that would even fit on the camera badge). I'm waiting to see what happens when the 90D comes out. Then it's 100D, 110D...?
> In any case, whatever the names, as long as a body similar to the current 5D3 continues, I'm ok with that. The next iteration will have to be a big leap though as the 5D3 is serving me pretty well.



I agree the naming is important as the 5 series is the sacred cow. But I dont think Canon ever makes a model badged the 90D. Sounds way to much like the old Nikon D90.


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## mackguyver (Jan 9, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> I agree the naming is important as the 5 series is the sacred cow. But I dont think Canon ever makes a model badged the 90D. Sounds way to much like the old Nikon D90.


Did someone say D30 or 30D???


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## PureClassA (Jan 9, 2015)

mackguyver said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > I agree the naming is important as the 5 series is the sacred cow. But I dont think Canon ever makes a model badged the 90D. Sounds way to much like the old Nikon D90.
> ...



Point taken. I have a cousin that has a D90 so my ears perk up on that one more.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 9, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > "4D" is possible
> ...



So...please explain the Nikon D*4* and D*4*s to us. Is Nikon not a Japanese company? Is Japan not part of Asia? Are Nikon just very brave to flout a public phobia, whereas Canon is too cowardly to do the same? I look forward to you sharing your cultural wisdom on the subject...


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## Marsu42 (Jan 9, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...



Sure, everything you ask for good ol' Neuro, inquiring in the usual friendly tone 

On close inspection, you'll notice that in Nikon's numbering the 4 is *after* the d, while with Canon it would to be much more prominently up front and the whole name probably more pronounced like "death" (native speakers around?).

It probably depends on a company's specific marketing strategy how much they consider these local specifics, it might be more important for consumer-grade products (like Powershot) than flagship (like D4). And it'll matter if you have to actively skip a number or can easily avoid the problem altogether with a new product like "EOS 4D".


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## Joe M (Jan 9, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> Joe M said:
> 
> 
> > This makes far more sense than the previous talk of the 5D3 going to high mpx in the next version. I figured that would be the case when first mentioned. As far as what they want to call all these variations, I think it'll be tricky. Personally, I think all the names (numbers) of the various cameras are tricky enough as it is. I guess you can go 5D3, 5D4, and keep adding digits until you hit 5D27 (if that would even fit on the camera badge). I'm waiting to see what happens when the 90D comes out. Then it's 100D, 110D...?
> ...



Yes, no 90D yet. But, what comes after 70D, 80D...? All the nomenclature is about to get awkward. But people naming stuff whether it be a camera body or, most anything that's updated/upgraded ( software is a good example), get to a point where they regret starting with "whatever 1" when they get to "whatever 9". How to name something so people know you have the latest and greatest and yet not confuse the issue? Personally, I don't care what they call the cameras as long as they perform as I require.


----------



## JonAustin (Jan 9, 2015)

Sanaraken said:


> ... Im just waiting for the 5DIV to come out. So I can get a second 5DIII when the prices go hit 2k.



Bingo!

It's very entertaining reading all these posts by forum members about which variant they should buy of a camera model that hasn't even been announced yet!


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## RGF (Jan 9, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> I agree the naming is important as the 5 series is the sacred cow. But I dont think Canon ever makes a model badged the 90D. Sounds way to much like the old Nikon D90.



What happens after the 90D? Suddenly Canon mid-tier camera is 3 digits, the realm of lower end cameras.

Numerical naming can be tricky - especially long term.


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## Famateur (Jan 9, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> I'd be very surprised if they came out with two versions of the high MP sensor with and without an AA filter.



Agreed. I don't have the rumor/leak details the CR Admins have, but I wonder if there's some overlap between 'one camera with AA filter and one without' and 'a high-megapixel 5Ds and a lower megapixel 5DIV'. If I were to guess, it would be that the 5Ds lacks the AA filter, and the 5DIV retains it (i.e. just two bodies, not three). That wouldn't seem like throwing things against the wall to see what sticks. An "S" body has been missing from the lineup for quite a while, and a successor to the 5DIII is expected. Seems reasonable to me...

I might be wrong, but isn't the need for an AA filter reduced as the pixel density goes up? That might support Canon's decision to remove it for the 53MP body.

Now, to tread into areas I have even less knowledge...When it comes to resolving power of lenses, I don't see how 53MP would be an issue. We don't run into resolving power issues on the current crop sensors (or do we, and I just don't know?), so having similar pixel density on a full frame camera should be fine, right? It also wouldn't be a compromise on noise performance because full frame's advantage is a function of more surface area to gather light, not pixel density (because of gapless microlenses). Anyone with expertise on the subject, feel free to set me straight (Neuro, jrista, Lee Jay -- I'm looking to you guys  ).

Anyhoo, this is what I'd sepculate:

1. 5Ds High-Megapixel for $4,999
2. 5DIV for $3,499
3. 6DII for $1,999

The high-megapixel body will be released long before the 5DIV. This would be to entice 5DIII users (particularly studio and landscape users) to make the jump from their aging 5DIII workhorses, and at early-adopter prices. Once that pent-up demand is satisfied, they release the 5DIV as a true upgrade/replacement of the 5DIII to feed the wedding/portrait/event market the 5DIII has served so well. The 6DII will have a few incremental advancements that keep it in the "entry level" category but are nice enough to justify the boost back up to $1,999. I wouldn't be surprised if the 6DII doesn't come for another year or more, though. The 5DIII second hand market might also push 6DII prices back down to $1,799 pretty fast, too.

It would be cool if Canon did something that blows everyone's minds at launch. For example, leap-frogging 4K and debuting a higher resolution standard with clean output and a powerful codec that keeps file sizes reasonable. Of course, the Cinema EOS line pretty much guarantees that won't happen in a DSLR. Or maybe Canon introduces a new sensor architecture that mops the floor with any current products for dynamic range and ISO performance.

Realistically, I think the acknowledged focus on serving the high-megapixel crowd and the high-sensitivity crowd separately is a pretty good indicator that a mind-blowing, do-all sensor is not coming any time soon.

Oh well -- I'm just excited for another generation of full frame bodies to be released so I can decide if I get the 6DII or pick up a current (then previous) generation body for much lower price. Either way, it's good for me.


----------



## Maiaibing (Jan 9, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Marsu42 said:
> ...



Its a Chinese language problem. Its irrelevant if it comes first or last as you want to avoid the sound itself. 

Its not going to be a big problem if a Japanese Camera company calls a camera something with "4" as the Chinese will associate it with a foreign product anyway (and thus be more forgiving). They could also just give it a proper Chinese name for the Chinese market as the hotel chain Four Seasons did. There are good reasons for doing so with a lot of products anyway just think Coca Cola.


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## PureClassA (Jan 9, 2015)

Famateur said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > I'd be very surprised if they came out with two versions of the high MP sensor with and without an AA filter.
> ...



+1000 Dead On agree. That's exactly where my thinking is right now. Except for the pricing. I don't see Canon making a camera designed to effectively go head-to-head with a D810 (and/or the new Sony 46MP sensor allegedly due out soon) at $5000. In order to be a viable competitor, I would think they would have to keep it sub $4k. Which means the lower MP 5D3 or its replacement would come down to $2999 perhaps... UNLESS there is so much difference between the two models (very different but equally critical uses) they come out at the same price, just like Sony does with the Alpha 7R and 7S. Thinkin' that may be a stretch for Canon given their history but not out the realm of possibility depending on exactly what they build AND if this CR2 even bears fruit.


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## Marsu42 (Jan 9, 2015)

Maiaibing said:


> Its a Chinese language problem. Its irrelevant if it comes first or last as you want to avoid the sound itself.
> 
> Its not going to be a big problem if a Japanese Camera company calls a camera something with "4" as the Chinese will associate it with a foreign product anyway (and thus be more forgiving). They could also just give it a proper Chinese name for the Chinese market as the hotel chain Four Seasons did. There are good reasons for doing so with a lot of products anyway just think Coca Cola.



Thanks, that's very interesting! What's your take on Canon skipping the Powershot then, are they jumping at shadows or is a Japanese product maybe not considered as "foreign" (because it's Asia) as an American one - no matter Nikon going ahead with the D4?


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## Famateur (Jan 9, 2015)

If I was a Canon exec, I wouldn't have any heartburn about reaching the limitations of current name/numbering in the product lineup. New names and numbers aren't hard to come up with, and transitioning reputation from one name to another is pretty doable.

It wouldn't surprise me if Canon times the release of some ground-breaking tech it's been sitting on to correspond with new names that resolve the impending numbering ceiling on current product lines. That would be an ideal time to make the change to a new name, and when you do, all that suffixed number-based versioning fun can start fresh.


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## Maiaibing (Jan 9, 2015)

Famateur said:


> Anyhoo, this is what I'd sepculate:
> 
> 1. 5Ds High-Megapixel for $4,999



Wow - that would certainly make my wallet's demand for moving over to Nikon increase by leaps and bounds!

Canon already outpriced itself once with the $3.500 5DIII what do you expext they will put into a 5Ds that will make people fork over $5.000? That's the price range of a 1D series Camera.

I got both my 5DII's very early after intro for $2.200 - just say'in.


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## Random Orbits (Jan 9, 2015)

RGF said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > I agree the naming is important as the 5 series is the sacred cow. But I dont think Canon ever makes a model badged the 90D. Sounds way to much like the old Nikon D90.
> ...



How about A0D? Just kidding. Naming the Rebels Txi in the US was a smart move on Canon's part although having the SL1 known as the 100D wasn't such a good move...


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## drs (Jan 9, 2015)

5Ds for me, which makes the most sense to continue where the 5D and the 5DmkII sets the initial path. The 5DmkIII, based on my needs, was never even considered to be part of my kit. (I shoot RED Epic Dragon for motion, so any DSLR video is not my trigger to buy).
With the quality of lenses available for the EOS mount, yes, 53MP will be just fine. :•) I'm in – if Canon delivers soon.


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## Chaitanya (Jan 9, 2015)

can be true, just saw a post on Canon India's facebook page about 10,000INR discount on 5D mark III in India.


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## Famateur (Jan 9, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> +1000 Dead On agree. That's exactly where my thinking is right now. Except for the pricing. I don't see Canon making a camera designed to effectively go head-to-head with a D810 (and/or the new Sony 46MP sensor allegedly due out soon) at $5000. In order to be a viable competitor, I would think they would have to keep it sub $4k. Which means the lower MP 5D3 or its replacement would come down to $2999 perhaps... UNLESS there is so much difference between the two models (very different but equally critical uses) they come out at the same price, just like Sony does with the Alpha 7R and 7S. Thinkin' that may be a stretch for Canon given their history but not out the realm of possibility depending on exactly what they build AND if this CR2 even bears fruit.



You may be right on prices being lower than my guess (that was little more than a wet finger to the wind  ). With the pleasantly reasonable introductory prices of the 70D, 7DII, 16-35 F4L IS and 100-400 F4.5-5.6 II, some downward movement in prices might be expected.

The completely unsupported thoughts that pointed me to $4,999 for the high-megapixel body are:

1. It was rumored that the high-megapixel "S" body could be in the 1 series and come in at $7,999. Putting it in a 5D series body means it would _have _to be < $5,000, and likely < $4,000, as you suspect.

2. The difference between 6D and 5DIII is about $1,300. If the new 5DIV comes in at similar intro price to the 5DIII ($3,499), then a similar price difference would put the 5Ds around $4,799. I threw on a couple hundred more to account for the "we-finally-have-a-high-megapixel-body!" factor. 

To your point, it wouldn't surprise me if it was more like $3,499 for 5DIV and $3,999 for 5Ds. You choose between sensitivity and resolution, with resolution getting the premium. Competition from Sony/Nikon and their resolution/price will also add downward pressure to Canon prices.

It'll be interesting to see what happens!


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## dolina (Jan 9, 2015)

Just make it better than Nikon/Sony's full frame bodies from 2014. If any of these new full framers are better than Nikon/Sony's 2015 bodies then awesome!


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## Famateur (Jan 9, 2015)

Maiaibing said:


> Famateur said:
> 
> 
> > Anyhoo, this is what I'd sepculate:
> ...



My guess could very well be way high. I remember everyone moaning about the price of the 5DIII when it came out and that it wasn't enough of an upgrade over the 5DII for the premium. While there are a number of photographers who passed on the 5DIII for that reason, it still managed to become one of the most successful all around bodies to date. The price has also settled down to $3,099.

As for 1-series territory for pricing, there's only one 1-series body in the lineup right now, and it's still $6,799. That's $1,800 above my admittedly high estimate for a 5Ds. That said, the 1Ds II intro'd at $7,999 (don't know what the other "S" bodies into'd at -- feeling Google-lazy). It doesn't seem crazy to me that a new "S" variant would command a significant premium, even if put into a 5D body.

Speculation is always fun!


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## Famateur (Jan 9, 2015)

Just for fun, I found that you can still buy a new 1DsIII for $5,500 on Amazon.  That's $1,500 _more _than my estimate for the 5Ds, and at less than half the resolution -- not to mention the weaker processing power and older AF and metering systems of a 7-year-old camera.


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## keithcooper (Jan 9, 2015)

Bring on the 3D - the name has a built in idiot filter. Just remember to put a 'does not shoot 3D photos' sticker on the box to thwart those who are stupid and litigious ;-)


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jan 9, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> Be good if they could do an electronic Anti-Alias option that you could turn on and off on the camera and hopefully the MK 4 will come with 4K Video which is coming more and more common.[\quote]
> 
> All Digital cameras have a electronic high pass or anti alias filters in the electronic signal processing. I once saw a video of a Canon engineer discussing the measures that Canon and everyone took to eliminate Moiré. It works in tandem with the optical filter to give a sharper cutoff of high frequencies that cause Moiré. Electronic filters alone aren't enough, so cameras without high pass filters do have Moiré, more or less depending on several factors.
> 
> ...


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## The Flasher (Jan 9, 2015)

Is this Canon taking Sony's Alpha 7 triple threat head on? It'll be interesting to see how the features and price points compare.

j


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## Maiaibing (Jan 9, 2015)

Famateur said:


> While there are a number of photographers who passed on the 5DIII for that reason, it still managed to become one of the most successful all around bodies to date.
> 
> It doesn't seem crazy to me that a new "S" variant would command a significant premium, even if put into a 5D body.
> 
> Speculation is always fun!



1) I'm not sure about how well the 5DIII did as I have never seen any specific info on this. To my knowledge Canon never claimed strong 5DIII sales as they have done with the 5DII, 70D and Nikon did with the D800. Anyone??

2) Speculation is the reason for being at CR! 

I certainly accept that your guess is as good as mine. However, there are still arguments to be made that seem more or less reasonable. Like we are not going to see a $500 5DIV.

I once made a poll on the price for the new 70-200 f/2.8 IS L II. The average guestimate was 2.390 USD - Canon official MSRP: 2.499 USD. 4% off - not bad. Unfortunately, people have a much harder time with guessing new camera features - not least because there are so many variables.

We will all be wiser soon (I guess!). :


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## tphillips63 (Jan 9, 2015)

"Anyhoo, this is what I'd sepculate:

1. 5Ds High-Megapixel for $4,999
2. 5DIV for $3,499
3. 6DII for $1,999"


With Nikon's pricing on the D810, I don't see how Canon could even attempt to charge 5K for a high megapixel camera in the 5D series. I doubt I would even do more than look at it at that price. Those prices would get me motivated to change brands or stay with what I have.


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## kuffer (Jan 9, 2015)

I bet a kidney and a lung that Canon would never launch such cameras. The with and without AA filter just makes no sense in the whole Canon scheme. It is the same as saying that AA filter is good and bad for your photos and Canon would never assume that they release products that is actually bad.
Also, it creates too much confusion when the customer is deciding which product to buy and will lead too many people to buyer's remorse (if one buys a camera with AA filter, he'll wish he bought the one without AA, and vice versa). Alas, Canon even amalgamated the 1D series into a single camera (no more full frame and APS-H formats, only full frame available now). 
Anyone here willing to bet? I'll Fedex my parts if I'm wrong. Next day shipping.


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## ngrinerphoto (Jan 9, 2015)

The top plate on the 1dx stinks for events. The ability to control the flash compensation is a two handed operation. I much prefer the 5d3 when shooting corporate and social events.


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## anthonyd (Jan 9, 2015)

kuffer said:


> I bet a kidney and a lung that Canon would never launch such cameras. The with and without AA filter just makes no sense in the whole Canon scheme. It is the same as saying that AA filter is good and bad for your photos and Canon would never assume that they release products that is actually bad.
> Also, it creates too much confusion when the customer is deciding which product to buy and will lead too many people to buyer's remorse (if one buys a camera with AA filter, he'll wish he bought the one without AA, and vice versa). Alas, Canon even amalgamated the 1D series into a single camera (no more full frame and APS-H formats, only full frame available now).
> Anyone here willing to bet? I'll Fedex my parts if I'm wrong. Next day shipping.



What's your age, alcohol consumption and average daily exercise? We can't bet blindly, this is a spec oriented site.


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## LovePhotography (Jan 9, 2015)

I wish they'd make ONE DSLR that is the absolute best money can buy in 2015. While I'm not rich, I'd be willing to forego a weeks vacation (spending $1000's of dollars on some dumb cruise or something) if that's what it took to buy the camera body that did "everything".... high resolution for landscape, fast fps and focus for sports, etc. with as few compromises as possible. People buy medium format and even Hasselblad, but I don't want to because they are limited on lenses and big and not weather sealed, etc., plus I'm invested in the Canon system. It they would just make ONE camera that has it "all" (as much as can be in 2015) I'd buy it. I can get the money. What I can't get is more time in my life. Why always having to choose a compromise for which there is a remedy if one would just be willing to spend a little more money? Just my $0.02


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## PureClassA (Jan 9, 2015)

The Flasher said:


> Is this Canon taking Sony's Alpha 7 triple threat head on? It'll be interesting to see how the features and price points compare.
> 
> j



As of right now, if the rumor is correct then it's similar, but that wont hold on any front. The A7II (MP range of 5D3) is $1700. The A7r (36MP) is $2200 and is about to be (I would have to assume) replaced by the A9 (46MP). And Canon has nothing close to the A7s and seems to have no intention to in order to protect their Cinema EOS line.

So not even pricing would match up to any Sony Alpha... but then again, it's not meant to.

Their target is the professional Nikon user (with this/these rumored bodies) so far as competition goes. The D810 and D750.


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## Famateur (Jan 9, 2015)

tphillips63 said:


> With Nikon's pricing on the D810, I don't see how Canon could even attempt to charge 5K for a high megapixel camera in the 5D series. I doubt I would even do more than look at it at that price. Those prices would get me motivated to change brands or stay with what I have.



Yep -- it's the resolution and prices of the competition from Sony/Nikon that would put pressure on the Canon price. Hooray for competition!

I'm hoping you're right, although either way, it's beyond my hobbyist budget.  I'm excited to see what comes along mainly for the price-impact when retailers need to move remaining stock of current gen bodies...


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## LovePhotography (Jan 9, 2015)

JonAustin said:


> Sanaraken said:
> 
> 
> > ... Im just waiting for the 5DIV to come out. So I can get a second 5DIII when the prices go hit 2k.
> ...



Banner ad on CR this morning. Don't know if it's legit, but it was on CR... 5D III body only- $1,899.
http://www.digitaloutlets.net/canon/can5dm3/


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## PureClassA (Jan 9, 2015)

Famateur said:


> tphillips63 said:
> 
> 
> > With Nikon's pricing on the D810, I don't see how Canon could even attempt to charge 5K for a high megapixel camera in the 5D series. I doubt I would even do more than look at it at that price. Those prices would get me motivated to change brands or stay with what I have.
> ...



If the 5D4 pans out like this CR2 with a modest 24MP version with DPAF and a super high 50MP version, I think Canon would be foolish not to keep the existing 5D3 and simply re-brand it with a a few tweaks as the 6D2. Sell it for $1999 and you're development costs are virtually zero. And when I say rebrading, I just mean use the same 5D3 sensor, use the AF system or perhaps a slightly dumbed down version of it (20 something cross type points) and maybe 5-6FPS. It's a proven model with a great sales track record. The new 5D4 would get you a little more resolution with the DPAF of the 7D2 and the 65 all cross type points along with 6-8 FPS. $$2999. Then you have beast mode for $3999 with 50MP and whatever else.

And Super Beast mode when we get a 1DX2 with everything at $6500


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## ChristopherMarkPerez (Jan 9, 2015)

For me, all three would be too big, too heavy, too massive, and too too late.

Nothing Canon is doing or rumored to be doing convinces me that they have the remotest clue as to what's happened to the photography equipment market. Even a relatively simple migration from the closed, hard to network VxWorks firmware that Canon currently uses to something more flexible, like Linux, is avoided at all costs by Canon.

I've kept a 7D and a couple long lenses for wildlife and motorsports. But this will only be for as long as it takes for the right gear to be available from someone else. As of today, 95 percent of my work is created using the equipment from a competitor's system.


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## lintoni (Jan 9, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> Famateur said:
> 
> 
> > tphillips63 said:
> ...


Some say the current 6D sensor bests that of the 5D3, at least in regards to its noise characteristics, and would consider this to be a downgrade...


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## lintoni (Jan 9, 2015)

ChristopherMarkPerez said:


> For me, all three would be too big, too heavy, too massive, and too too late.
> 
> Nothing Canon is doing or rumored to be doing convinces me that they have the remotest clue as to what's happened to the photography equipment market. Even a relatively simple migration from the closed, hard to network VxWorks firmware that Canon currently uses to something more flexible, like Linux, is avoided at all costs by Canon.
> 
> I've kept a 7D and a couple long lenses for wildlife and motorsports. But this will only be for as long as it takes for the right gear to be available from someone else. As of today, 95 percent of my work is created using the equipment from a competitor's system.


Canon haven't used VxWorks for years.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/DRYOS


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## Famateur (Jan 9, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> Then you have beast mode for $3999 with 50MP and whatever else.
> And Super Beast mode when we get a 1DX2 with everything...



That would be cool. Maybe they would call it the 5DL and 1DXL ("L" for Lynch -- beast mode  ).

That gives me an idea for solving the naming/numbering limitations that are fast approaching...What if instead of using 1-series prefixes as designation for "pro" bodies, they come up with whatever names they want but attach the "L" designation to the end for anything "pro". They do that for lenses, so it would make sense to match that to bodies, wouldn't it? Might even make amateurs with non-L bodies feel that much better about buying an "L" lens for their lower-end body. "Hey look -- I have a pro lens!" I know you can do that now, but having "L" designate pro bodies, too, would make that a much stronger correlation. Just a lunch-break thought...


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## Famateur (Jan 9, 2015)

lintoni said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > I think Canon would be foolish not to keep the existing 5D3 and simply re-brand it with a a few tweaks as the 6D2.
> ...



Good point. It's easy to forget that the 6D sensor is arguably Canon's finest to date. I'm still hoping for the 6DII (completely baseless speculation/wishing, I know) to be, essentially, a full frame 70D.


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## StudentOfLight (Jan 9, 2015)

Famateur said:


> lintoni said:
> 
> 
> > PureClassA said:
> ...


Just a thought...

If Canon really wanted to throw a curve ball they could put a 36MP Exmor sensor in the 6D-II and sell it for cheap. 6D is targeting casual Travel/Landscape photographers who would appreciate the detail and not necessarily need the speed and AF capabilities of a higher end body. Throw in full articulating LCD, Wifi, GPS, compass and see how they sell ???


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## PureClassA (Jan 9, 2015)

I love my 6D as it is except maybe a minor gripe wishing for just a few more AF points. But in reality, if they come up with a Mk2 version, marketing would suggest at least a small bump in what folks tend to see as the main piece of a camera. (on the other hand... look at he Rebel series... virtually nothing but feature upgrades over the years) PERSONALLY, I'd be fine with a 6D2 using the same sensor as now but adding in more AF points and making them all Cross type. Again, 20 something would be sufficient for a camera in this price range. Then step up the flash sync to 250 instead of 180. Again, seems minor enough to still maintain the spectre of "entry level" especially if one step up is the 5D4.

All that said, I don't have much intention of buying one. If I didn't already have a 6D, I would be. My interest lies in a high MP high performing 5D4 or a 1DX2 if it gets announced this year. 


....and yes you may have lost the entire internation community on here with your Marshawn Lynch reference ;-) 

The Red L ... L for lens. So a big red C for camera? heh. would be kinda cool.


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## JLRoyal42 (Jan 9, 2015)

It's getting to the point where everyone I know who shoots Canon has now switched over, or seriously thinking about switching over to Sony (who apparently has more dynamic range and IQ to offer at a cheaper cost right now than Canon).. That sucks. 

Now in my head, the 5D Mark IV needs to set the bar for the next 3 years or so and if that doesn't include 4K, More Dynamic Range, Faster Frame Rates.. At a cheaper price.. Then I'm just not sure how they're going to answer back to all the competition that's out there today. It kinda worries me a bit that some people aren't expecting those changes to take place.


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## Denisas Pupka (Jan 9, 2015)

This is intriguing if canon will go a7 / a7r / a7s path. I was looking a7s side for a while now and only think holding me back - problem adapting canon lenses. There are solutions, but focusing still will be very slow. 

Its very interesting what canon will pull out against a7s video futures wise. (EVF, ability to switch between x1.6 and full frame, external 4K recording, swivel screen and other video stuff that you can get only with Magic Lantern installed).


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## Orangutan (Jan 9, 2015)

JLRoyal42 said:


> It's getting to the point where everyone I know who shoots Canon has now switched over, or seriously thinking about switching over to Sony



Is your group a a statistical aberration, or are they representative of the entire market?



> It kinda worries me a bit that some people aren't expecting those changes to take place.



I don't expect them to take place until the competition makes significant and consistent market gains against Canon. It's a mistake to think of the DSLR business as anything other than a business.


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## Bob Howland (Jan 9, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> I don't expect them to take place until the competition makes significant and consistent market gains against Canon. It's a mistake to think of the DSLR business as anything other than a business.



I'll agree with the second sentence but not the first. After all, isn't it better to make the changes before losing market share rather than after? Mismanaging major technological transitions drove Kodak into bankruptcy.

The managements of Olympus, Panasonic, Sony, Fuji and Samsung all decided, more or less simultaneously, that the case for MILCs over DSLRs was compelling enough to make major investments to overcome serious barriers to entry, the biggest of which seems to be getting stores to carry not-Canon/not-Nikon cameras so that consumers can look at them and buy them. It very much remains to be seen whether Canon and Nikon can leverage their installed base and very extensive DSLR lens lineups in the transition to MILCs.


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## K-amps (Jan 9, 2015)

If Canon Changed Sensor tech in the 7d2, then expect only minor bump in DR/IQ/Noise for any 5D variant. Don't get your hopes high... Stay close to reality. :-X

I hope Canon can change the Sensor processing and RAW file algorithms to 18 or 20 bit....

I will probably choose the high MP, low FPS, less AF point model since I am primarily Marco/landscape/portraits. I do not expect them to price it above $4k given that the D810 is out there.

I do hope they extend the spread of the AF points, it's relatively clumped in the 5D3, although still quite usable.


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## lintoni (Jan 9, 2015)

Bob Howland said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > I don't expect them to take place until the competition makes significant and consistent market gains against Canon. It's a mistake to think of the DSLR business as anything other than a business.
> ...



The biggest of which seem to be getting people to _actually_ buy MILCs instead of DSLRs... 

If there was sufficient market demand, stores would stock them.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 9, 2015)

Bob Howland said:


> It very much remains to be seen whether Canon and Nikon *can* leverage their installed base and very extensive DSLR lens lineups in the transition to MILCs.



Given the global market penetrance of MILCs (or rather, the lack thereof), the first question is not whether they can, but whether they _should_… 

Lots of people like to talk and write the about death of dSLRs due to the rise of MILCs. However, that rise is certainly not taking place with a slope consistent killing dSLRs, and it's important to keep in mind the same people saying these things now predicted that demise of the dSLR was to have occurred by ~5 years ago.


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## Maiaibing (Jan 9, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> I don't expect them to take place until the competition makes significant and consistent market gains against Canon. It's a mistake to think of the DSLR business as anything other than a business.


Business is business as you say.

That's why I expect Canon's board members are seriously unhappy with the fact that Canon suffered double digit falling DSLR sales in 2012/13 and again in 2013/14. 

I also think Canon board members are calling on Mr. Maeda and the camera division to take action to turn that trajectory around - fast. Very fast. Like in 2015 fast.

Overall the DSLR market is a real dog these years so I do not know how Canon is doing measured on market share. And indeed maybe there just no longer is the same market space for DSLRs anymore. But Nikon at least had a great sales boost 2012/13 (50%+ on interchangable lens bodies) even if 2014 also seems to have been quite a bad year for them.

Regardless. Business is business. And there is a very strong business case for Mr Maeda to do everything he can to set a grand Canon rebound in motion by stunning us all.

I for one will be voting with my money this year. And I think I'm far from the only one.


----------



## Maiaibing (Jan 9, 2015)

JLRoyal42 said:


> It's getting to the point where everyone I know who shoots Canon has now switched over, or seriously thinking about switching over to Sony (who apparently has more dynamic range and IQ to offer at a cheaper cost right now than Canon).. That sucks.
> 
> Now in my head, the 5D Mark IV needs to set the bar for the next 3 years or so and if that doesn't include 4K, More Dynamic Range, Faster Frame Rates.. At a cheaper price.. Then I'm just not sure how they're going to answer back to all the competition that's out there today. It kinda worries me a bit that some people aren't expecting those changes to take place.



+1.000


----------



## sdsr (Jan 9, 2015)

Coldhands said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > Neuro or anyone else who knows more than I, Why could Canon not just create an AA filter build that could be turned ON or OFF at will? If Canon could install a sensor design with a non-functional low-pass to save manufacturing variance costs.... why couldn't we have just ONE high res 5Ds with an on/off switch??
> ...



Perhaps they could do something like what Pentax has done with the K3, where you can switch the filter on/off:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/pentax-k3/pentax-k3SELECTIVE_LPF.HTM


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 9, 2015)

dilbert said:


> There seems to be an expectation or underlying current of knowing that Canon will deliver a DSLR that has a "more" of something this year however it remains to be seen if that "more" translates into a good enough IQ increase that it will distract people from Sony.



Some people posting on Internet forums do certainly seem 'distracted by Sony'. However, that sort of thing doesn't seem to be having a big impact on people actually *buying* cameras. Which group do you think matters to Canon? :


----------



## LukasS (Jan 9, 2015)

Cosmicbug said:


> A 5DmkIV evolved from the mkIII..24-26Mpx with 8FPS
> A 53MP 5Ds would make a great complementary camera for studio, large groups, architecture and landscapes.
> I like the idea that not one camera does all and that cameras are more dedicated to a specific genre. (Sony and Nikon are going that way and it seems Canon started this with the 1Dx and 7Dmk2
> 
> Expensive duo but will probably satisfy me for a while commercially and in my hobby



I agree completely, I'm not a very interested in other manufacturers but from what I can see there is a clear distinction ie. in Nikon body line - they have main purpose and each model has its advantages.

I like that and gladly welcome it. I've updated my old body for 7D mkII (aviation photography is my main outdoor activity, but also sport, wildlife and of course press) and would gladly update my classic 5D for new high megapixel for studio work and landscape.

Can't wait for news about this line .


----------



## Orangutan (Jan 9, 2015)

Bob Howland said:


> I'll agree with the second sentence but not the first. After all, isn't it better to make the changes before losing market share rather than after? Mismanaging major technological transitions drove Kodak into bankruptcy.



I respect what you're saying, but the difference is that Canon knows it's coming, and likely has the tech on the shelf to compete very quickly.


----------



## LukasS (Jan 9, 2015)

RLPhoto said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > RLPhoto said:
> ...



I'm still holding on to my 5D classic, I've had said that I won't update until it will be significant jump, and from this news it seems that time is coming soon.


----------



## Orangutan (Jan 9, 2015)

Maiaibing said:


> the fact that Canon suffered double digit falling DSLR sales in 2012/13 and again in 2013/14.



How did that compare to their competitors? Remember the joke about two hunters and a bear.


----------



## unfocused (Jan 9, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Bob Howland said:
> 
> 
> > It very much remains to be seen whether Canon and Nikon *can* leverage their installed base and very extensive DSLR lens lineups in the transition to MILCs.
> ...



I repeat (for about the 100th time) no one knows if MILCs are a leading-edge or trailing-edge product. Too many people assume that just because they have been popular in some Asian markets, that means that they are the wave of the future. But, that is not necessarily the case. 

It is equally likely that in the Chinese market at least (which is the market that probably counts the most), the early adoption of MILCs is simply a predecessor to the eventual adoption of DSLRs. Once Chinese customers become familiar with the relative benefits of DSLRs vs. MILCs, they may make the same decision that most customers in Europe and the Americas have made: the traditional DSLR is far more flexible and better suited for many enthusiasts.


----------



## unfocused (Jan 9, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > There seems to be an expectation or underlying current of knowing that Canon will deliver a DSLR that has a "more" of something this year however it remains to be seen if that "more" translates into a good enough IQ increase that it will distract people from Sony.
> ...



Neuro, I continue to applaud your valiant efforts to inject reason and rationality into the debate. Unfortunately, many of those posting on this site are of the philosophy best summarized as "don't try to confuse me with the facts."


----------



## unfocused (Jan 9, 2015)

This rumor fits almost exactly what I've been predicting: A 5D high definition camera (I thought it might actually be called 5D HD, but if the rumor is correct, Canon seems to prefer 5Ds) and a general purpose 5DIV that will be a more true successor to the 5DIII.

Good news for those of us who would rather see other improvements before increased megapixels.

My wish list:

Some variation of 7DII/1DX autofocus;
Touch Screen with a sensible user interface;
Basic on-screen photo editing, similar to what can be found on iPads and iPhones (Ideally Lightroom or Photoshop for Canon); 
Easy to use Wi-Fi to allow images to be transferred to the cloud and shared with clients quickly once a few edits have been made; 
Dual-Pixel autofocus (especially for video)

In other words, let's hope they focus on bringing cameras into the 21st century in terms of usability and cloud connectivity. It's embarrassing that some guy with an iPhone can upload an image and share it with clients faster than photographers can with a $3,000 camera. 

I don't need more dynamic range or more megapixels. Give me something that will actually help me make money.


----------



## Don Haines (Jan 9, 2015)

unfocused said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...


I still don't understand the rabid fascination with sensors and the almost complete neglect for every other part of the camera system.... If you want a great picture the two most important factors are the lens and the AF system. As I am fond of saying, who cares what the DR is (or number of megapixels) of a blurry picture.

People have to think systems, not components.....


----------



## Orangutan (Jan 9, 2015)

dilbert said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



How much time? In the long run, we're all dead.


----------



## Orangutan (Jan 9, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D 

What do you mean by that?


----------



## JonAustin (Jan 9, 2015)

LovePhotography said:


> JonAustin said:
> 
> 
> > Sanaraken said:
> ...



That the banner ad appeared on CR lends it no credibility whatsoever, and that is by no means a knock on CR. Most of the banner / side column ads that pop up in my browser tend to reflect more on my browsing history than on which site I'm currently visiting.

I've never heard of Digital Outlets, so I'd be leery of running my credit card numbers by them. (IF this is a legit offer, however, and indicative of a trend, there may be a second 5DIII in my bag before the year is out.)


----------



## mkabi (Jan 9, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Indeed and if Sony can put 5 axis IBIS into the A9 like they did the A7II then all of my lenses without IS become IS lenses even with a metabones adapter. What's not to love about that boost of usability in my lens investment?! Sony recognise AF as being a key issue for them to address so it will be interesting to see what they deliver! On top of which I won't have to wait half a century for improvements to be delivered with Sony.



I recommended an A7II to my cousin...
Tried it out last weekend as he brought it to a birthday party, and initial impression is that its user interface... compared to Canon's is terrible. I heard that you can customize it, but navigating and trying various things to gain access to ISO, WB, focus peaking, and to switch to 1080/60p and back to 1080/24p, ... I concluded that there is a huge learning curve behind it. And, that I might have to borrow it for a weekend before I make a decision to buy an a7s.

So my recommendation, rent one out... try it and then make your decision.
Don't just go after specs... specs won't get you the pictures and/or the video you want...


----------



## Orangutan (Jan 9, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Indeed and if Sony can put 5 axis IBIS into the A9 like they did the A7II then all of my lenses without IS become IS lenses even with a metabones adapter. What's not to love about that boost of usability in my lens investment?!


Does IBIS work as well as lens-based IS? It was my understanding that it introduced significantly more distortion.



> On top of which I won't have to wait half a century for improvements to be delivered with Sony.


They will probably introduce many improvements in multiple different products, but not all of the best improvements in a single product.

In truth, I'm rooting for Sony to pull its **** together and build a solid product line because that increases competition regardless of which brand I have. So far, however, I'm not encouraged: they know how to make individual pieces of tech work well, but they seem to have trouble putting it all together into a coherent product or line-up.


----------



## JLRoyal42 (Jan 9, 2015)

dilbert said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



+ This 

Every time I log onto a social media I'm seeing more and more posts saying "Selling my Canon, Just got a Sony A7R/S" which does seem to have an overall impact on people who are buying cameras.


----------



## LukasS (Jan 9, 2015)

dilbert said:


> people read Canon's conservative behaviour as not being capable of delivering a camera that will exceed Sony's capability



I don't read Canon's behavior as not being capable. As someone mentioned it before - dSLR is a business, and as a business it has to be profitable in the long run. By being very innovative and putting new features or upgrades to your products your R&D costs are high and that makes business more risky adding to that uncertainty of the market response to these it may be to huge risk during this time.

I'm for one looking for reliable product, I could have all the features in the world and with faulty product those images would be terrible or not taken at all (as in case of Olympus' OMD EM-5 during my trip in October 2014), the next thing is then image quality/pricing.

With quick innovation you can ran out of ideas also - and it's even worse case. There is natural progress to these things and we might loose ourselves in the hate for Canon because we use their products to the fullest (and want more!) but please do remember that the market is BIG and those hating/complaining aren't complete set of views.


----------



## Orangutan (Jan 9, 2015)

JLRoyal42 said:


> Every time I log onto a social media I'm seeing more and more posts saying



That's all I need to read. Look at the sales numbers, not social media.


----------



## LukasS (Jan 9, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> Bob Howland said:
> 
> 
> > I'll agree with the second sentence but not the first. After all, isn't it better to make the changes before losing market share rather than after? Mismanaging major technological transitions drove Kodak into bankruptcy.
> ...



I think that is the case, their R&D certainly knows what is doing and by postponing release of new features or upgrades they have more time for improvements and also to see if the feature is really appreciated and not just marketing disaster.


----------



## Synkka (Jan 10, 2015)

It would be an interesting split to make multiple 5d cameras. While this would appeal to enthusiasts I wonder what the impact would be on the cost oer moeldue to economies of scale. Additionally if the split was the done in the 5d models I wonder how that will impact the 1d line.
Still an interesting rumor and I look forward to seeing how it plays out.

I still don't buy into the Sony dominating the market place, I see hardly any sony cameras around and even the people on the forum here seem to only vaguely threaten to swap to sony but never actually do. I think sony makes good sensors but poor camera systems. Further more I think canon would be more concerned about the general drop in camera sales compared to a loss of market share, at this stage.


----------



## LukasS (Jan 10, 2015)

dilbert said:


> It is only a matter of time before Sony turns the "distracted by Sony" into "buying Sony."



My business partner has this saying that out of 5 potential clients one will for sure buy our products, one for sure will not and the rest are up to persuasion . 

So the first to choose Sony are those that don't care about Canon innovation.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 10, 2015)

dilbert said:


> It is only a matter of time before Sony turns the "distracted by Sony" into "buying Sony."



Or it's only a matter of time before Sony abandons the line. Distracted by Betamax. Distracted by Vaio.


----------



## erjlphoto (Jan 10, 2015)

It's hard to imagine three different versions.


----------



## PVS (Jan 10, 2015)

Out of curiosity - why does every "new canon camera coming" thread turns into a Sony debate?
I love my A7 and I love my 5Dmk3, and each of them has it's space in my workflow - OF THEIR OWN.

Of apples and oranges, and why I love both.


----------



## Orangutan (Jan 10, 2015)

PVS said:


> Out of curiosity - why does every "new canon camera coming" thread turns into a Sony debate?
> 
> Of apples and oranges, and why I love both.



Because some people become angry that Canon apples don't taste like oranges.


----------



## PVS (Jan 10, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Indeed and if Sony can put 5 axis IBIS into the A9 like they did the A7II then all of my lenses without IS become IS lenses even with a metabones adapter. What's not to love about that boost of usability in my lens investment?! Sony recognise AF as being a key issue for them to address so it will be interesting to see what they deliver! On top of which I won't have to wait half a century for improvements to be delivered with Sony.




I think you should have looked into Pentax then, they had IBIS yeaaaaars ago. And a huge legacy of lenses.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 10, 2015)

PVS said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > Indeed and if Sony can put 5 axis IBIS into the A9 like they did the A7II then all of my lenses without IS become IS lenses even with a metabones adapter. What's not to love about that boost of usability in my lens investment?! Sony recognise AF as being a key issue for them to address so it will be interesting to see what they deliver! On top of which I won't have to wait half a century for improvements to be delivered with Sony.
> ...



I saw two Pentax dSLRs being used by parents at my daughter's school Christmas pageant last month. Two. Canon had better watch out or Pentax will destroy them. ;D


----------



## mjbehnke (Jan 10, 2015)

So, will this be a Canon Sensor, or are they getting it from someone else? With all the rumors of looking at Med. Format, getting the best sensor, etc... I'm just wondering if they are making this sensor or if it's coming from another company?

Thanks!
Matthew


----------



## Maiaibing (Jan 10, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > the fact that Canon suffered double digit falling DSLR sales in 2012/13 and again in 2013/14.
> ...



Blank... if you read my post all the way it continues: "I do not know how Canon is doing measured on market share".


----------



## Maiaibing (Jan 10, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> That's all I need to read. Look at the sales numbers, not social media.



OK. Canon DSLR sales are nose-diving since 2012/13... and your conclusion is...???


----------



## eml58 (Jan 10, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Canon must be desperate to avoid using the name "3D" and "4D" if it will use "5Ds" instead.
> 
> It went from having (1D, 1Ds) -> 1DX to deal with market confusion.
> 
> ...



I suppose like Nikon & the D3, D3s & D3x, Canon makes some assumptions, someone about to place an order for a $3k to $10k Camera may have dome some research, may have made a choice based on the research, may not be a fool with his/her money, Oh, I forgot, your view is anyone that purchases Canon, must be, a Fool that is.

In the past there seemed to be no issues with understanding Canon 1D, 1Ds, Mark I, Mark II, Mark III, 5D, 5DMK II, etc

Honestly Dilbert, don't you just get tired of all the Canon Walloping BS ??


----------



## Don Haines (Jan 10, 2015)

PVS said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > Indeed and if Sony can put 5 axis IBIS into the A9 like they did the A7II then all of my lenses without IS become IS lenses even with a metabones adapter. What's not to love about that boost of usability in my lens investment?! Sony recognise AF as being a key issue for them to address so it will be interesting to see what they deliver! On top of which I won't have to wait half a century for improvements to be delivered with Sony.
> ...


Olympus has had IBIS for 10 years.... The Canon IS works much better... but then again, it is very hard to design IBIS that works for wide angle and telephoto lenses, while a lens specific design is tailor made for the chunk of glass you are dealing with.


----------



## Sunnystate (Jan 10, 2015)

This may be a bit off topic, but only at first glance. I really like to address loyal Canon defenders on this forum, and we all know who they are, usually they have over several thousands posts and are sometimes showing up on other forums just to out of blue state that canon is the only king on the planet.
Maybe they never ending campaign glorifying Canon generate some minuscule increase in sales, who knows? but in the long run I pray that Canon executives do not listen to them at all!
Please if you really love that Canon brand so much be clever enough to help Canon to understand that the emperor is sort of naked for some time now, please do not lull them to sleep with all that eloquent talk about superiority of the system over the quality of sensor, incredible selection of lenses (that can be and are successfully used on Sony cameras) etc, etc... 
Canon is very strong corporation that will survive this small hick up, and sooner they realize the need to fix something the better we all will be including the 1Dx owners ;-)

I am 53 years old now, and waiting a decade for Canon to decide that it is a time to upgrade sensor is just unacceptable for me. That's why I am enjoying my beloved bit awkward A7r for some time now and pushing the envelopes the way I could never push with any of the current Canon cameras...
I hope this makes some sense to at least some of you 

Lets hope that Canon once again is capable of philosophy that brought to life 5D Classic once upon a time...
Thank you.


----------



## PureClassA (Jan 10, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > It is only a matter of time before Sony turns the "distracted by Sony" into "buying Sony."
> ...




aaaaand I peed my pants. That was good


----------



## Orangutan (Jan 10, 2015)

Maiaibing said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > That's all I need to read. Look at the sales numbers, not social media.
> ...



How did they do relative to ILC sales of other manufacturers?


----------



## Orangutan (Jan 10, 2015)

Maiaibing said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > Maiaibing said:
> ...



Then why did you write "I expect Canon's board members are seriously unhappy with the fact that Canon suffered double digit falling DSLR sales in 2012/13 and again in 2013/14?" That is an utterly meaningless (even deceptive) statement without comparison to other vendors. If I'm on Canon's board and our DSLR sales drop 15%, but Nikon's and Sony's drop 25% then I'm probably satisfied that the company is doing well.

May I suggest some light reading? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Business_cycle


----------



## PureClassA (Jan 10, 2015)

"Olympus has had IBIS for 10 years.... The Canon IS works much better... but then again, it is very hard to design IBIS that works for wide angle and telephoto lenses, while a lens specific design is tailor made for the chunk of glass you are dealing with." - Don Haines


Never thought of it that way, but that makes total sense. I am terribly intrigued by the Sony Alphas myself, but only the a7S for the perfect video sensor that with amazing high ISO (pretty useful for video) in a small form body. That said I'm waiting for the A7S2 because of the IBIS and hopefully fix to the rolling shutter issue. For video it's really nice to be able to take high quality primes like a 35 or 50mm and get IS from the body. Some of the body rigs for steady cam work are just obscenely expensive and I can't wait to see how much vibration correction can be done with a small handheld rig in a cinema body like the A7S.

As for photography itself IS is wonderful but less important a consideration for me in lens selection unless it's a long tele. I guess it depends on what you're doing with the camera


----------



## Don Haines (Jan 10, 2015)

Sunnystate said:


> This may be a bit off topic, but only at first glance. I really like to address loyal Canon defenders on this forum, and we all know who they are, usually they have over several thousands posts and are sometimes showing up on other forums just to out of blue state that canon is the only king on the planet.
> Maybe they never ending campaign glorifying Canon generate some minuscule increase in sales, who knows? but in the long run I pray that Canon executives do not listen to them at all!
> Please if you really love that Canon brand so much be clever enough to help Canon to understand that the emperor is sort of naked for some time now, please do not lull them to sleep with all that eloquent talk about superiority of the system over the quality of sensor, incredible selection of lenses (that can be and are successfully used on Sony cameras) etc, etc...
> Canon is very strong corporation that will survive this small hick up, and sooner they realize the need to fix something the better we all will be including the 1Dx owners ;-)
> ...



I am sure that they already know this...

The thing is, nobody is the best at everything....
Canon makes some of the best lenses...
Nikon has lenses that are better than the equivalent Canon lens...
Olympus has the best entry level user interface...
Canon has the best high-end user interface....
Sony/Nikon has the best sensors at low ISO....
Canon has the best sensors at high ISO....
Nikon makes the best landscape and studio camera...
Canon makes the best wedding and action camera...
Sony makes the best low light camera....
Panasonic beats them all for video (at least on sub $10,000 cameras)...
and the iPhone is the king of instant photography

To pick one aspect of a system for one use and to think that all should worship it is lunacy...


----------



## Don Haines (Jan 10, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> "Olympus has had IBIS for 10 years.... The Canon IS works much better... but then again, it is very hard to design IBIS that works for wide angle and telephoto lenses, while a lens specific design is tailor made for the chunk of glass you are dealing with." - Don Haines
> 
> 
> Never thought of it that way, but that makes total sense. I am terribly intrigued by the Sony Alphas myself, but only the a7S for the perfect video sensor that with amazing high ISO (pretty useful for video) in a small form body. That said I'm waiting for the A7S2 because of the IBIS and hopefully fix to the rolling shutter issue. For video it's really nice to be able to take high quality primes like a 35 or 50mm and get IS from the body. Some of the body rigs for steady cam work are just obscenely expensive and I can't wait to see how much vibration correction can be done with a small handheld rig in a cinema body like the A7S.
> ...



To be fair, IBIS works great on shorter focal lengths..... it's the long ones where it has trouble.. if you have a 400 or 600mm lens on the camera, a tiny bit of shake becomes too much for the IBIS to handle. I can't speak for the A7S (never tried it) but the latest Oly's are surprisingly good. My biggest complaint about them is that they are too small. Too small means harder to operate controls and at least for me, hard to hold well or steady. 

On a somewhat related topic, I think the 7D2 is using sensor shifting as well as IS to stabilize video. The smoothness and delay when you pan seems to indicate it.... does anyone know for sure if they do?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 10, 2015)

Sunnystate said:


> This may be a bit off topic, but only at first glance. I really like to address loyal Canon defenders on this forum, and we all know who they are, usually they have over several thousands posts and are sometimes showing up on other forums just to out of blue state that canon is the only king on the planet.
> Maybe they never ending campaign glorifying Canon generate some minuscule increase in sales, who knows? but in the long run I pray that Canon executives do not listen to them at all!
> Please if you really love that Canon brand so much be clever enough to help Canon to understand that the emperor is sort of naked for some time now, please do not lull them to sleep with all that eloquent talk about superiority of the system over the quality of sensor, incredible selection of lenses (that can be and are successfully used on Sony cameras) etc, etc...
> Canon is very strong corporation that will survive this small hick up, and sooner they realize the need to fix something the better we all will be including the 1Dx owners ;-)
> ...



It's nice that some people can tolerate using a camera they admit is awkward and be happy about that. Tomorrow, I'll be out shooting raptors at the seashore for several hours. Air temps will be in the teens and with wind chill it'll be about 0 °F (–18 °C). Trying to operate an awkward little body with poorly designed controls wearing thick gloves as the AF fails to effectively track fast-moving subjects and the weak little battery tries to cope with the cold and maybe it will last long enough that the LCD and EVF black out from the low temps leaving me no way to even see the subject...yeah, a Sony a7R is just what I need to push some envelopes...

:




Don Haines said:


> To pick one aspect of a system for one use and to think that all should worship it is lunacy...



+1


----------



## PureClassA (Jan 10, 2015)

LOL!! I seriously gotta stop reading Neuro's posts when I'm drinking something. I'm tried of cleaning it up after I laugh it out all over my desk.


----------



## bdunbar79 (Jan 10, 2015)

Sunnystate said:


> This may be a bit off topic, but only at first glance. I really like to address loyal Canon defenders on this forum, and we all know who they are, usually they have over several thousands posts and are sometimes showing up on other forums just to out of blue state that canon is the only king on the planet.
> Maybe they never ending campaign glorifying Canon generate some minuscule increase in sales, who knows? but in the long run I pray that Canon executives do not listen to them at all!
> Please if you really love that Canon brand so much be clever enough to help Canon to understand that the emperor is sort of naked for some time now, please do not lull them to sleep with all that eloquent talk about superiority of the system over the quality of sensor, incredible selection of lenses (that can be and are successfully used on Sony cameras) etc, etc...
> Canon is very strong corporation that will survive this small hick up, and sooner they realize the need to fix something the better we all will be including the 1Dx owners ;-)
> ...



Not really. Considering about 30-40% of my income comes from shooting sports, and the A7r SUCKS at shooting sports, I'm perfectly happy with my pair of 1Dx's.


----------



## Sunnystate (Jan 10, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Sunnystate said:
> 
> 
> > This may be a bit off topic, but only at first glance. I really like to address loyal Canon defenders on this forum, and we all know who they are, usually they have over several thousands posts and are sometimes showing up on other forums just to out of blue state that canon is the only king on the planet.
> ...



Actually Neuro, I really wish to be there with you and compare the notes later 
Regards, Zenon


----------



## Famateur (Jan 10, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> LOL!! I seriously gotta stop reading Neuro's posts when I'm drinking something. I'm tried of cleaning it up after I laugh it out all over my desk.



Just do like I do with inspiration from the restaurant salad bar: Install a glass sneeze guard. ;D

Then all you need is a squeegee in the desk drawer...


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Jan 10, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> with 4k and all the other stuff people claim to need but at this point is* all but unusable or viewable*



LOL


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Jan 10, 2015)

Maiaibing said:


> More choices are always better. But Canon is in a difficult position which speaks against having anything more than one 5DIV out there. I fail to see that Canon is in a situation that they can allow themsleves to spread incremental improvements thin accross the board and forego the very best they can deliver in an attempt to regain the high ground.
> 
> A high megapix 5DIV is not competing with the 5DIII. Its competing to outshine the D750 and outdo the D810. So anything short of 5 fps, less AF points, DR, lower iso etc. is a no-go. Canon simply can not afford to leave aside the very best they can deliver in all areas compared to where the competition is today.
> 
> ...



exactly
and don't forget the higher speed modes in aps-c crop for some of the Nikons (and with crop you get to keep your reach for wildlife and sports unlike with the fake pseudo-RAW sRAW, mRAW mess)

It's a dangerous game they'd play by trying to get too tricky. They could end up with three crippled cameras.


----------



## dash2k8 (Jan 10, 2015)

> Not really. Considering about 30-40% of my income comes from shooting sports, and the A7r SUCKS at shooting sports, I'm perfectly happy with my pair of 1Dx's.



I have to say this is not fair. The A7r and 1Dx are completely different classes. I have a a7s and would never think to take action shots with it as even my old 7D could focus faster. There are advantages to each body. The new a7ii with its 5-axis stabilization AND fast cont. AF is miles ahead of the 1Dx for video, for example.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Jan 10, 2015)

Maiaibing said:


> Famateur said:
> 
> 
> > Anyhoo, this is what I'd sepculate:
> ...



Yeah who pays $5000 for some high MP but slug of a camera when since it's no good for action so much anyway you might as well just get an adapted Sony for a fraction of the price.

If it is gonna be $5000 it needs to be fast too to separate itself from the Sony+adapter options.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Jan 10, 2015)

unfocused said:


> This rumor fits almost exactly what I've been predicting: A 5D high definition camera (I thought it might actually be called 5D HD, but if the rumor is correct, Canon seems to prefer 5Ds) and a general purpose 5DIV that will be a more true successor to the 5DIII.
> 
> Good news for those of us who would rather see other improvements before increased megapixels.
> 
> ...



So after all these years you just want a 5D4 to be a 5D3 with a trace better AF, a touch screen and WIFI???
And we are supposed to shell out $3500 just to get that?


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Jan 10, 2015)

Sunnystate said:


> This may be a bit off topic, but only at first glance. I really like to address loyal Canon defenders on this forum, and we all know who they are, usually they have over several thousands posts and are sometimes showing up on other forums just to out of blue state that canon is the only king on the planet.
> Maybe they never ending campaign glorifying Canon generate some minuscule increase in sales, who knows? but in the long run I pray that Canon executives do not listen to them at all!
> Please if you really love that Canon brand so much be clever enough to help Canon to understand that the emperor is sort of naked for some time now, please do not lull them to sleep with all that eloquent talk about superiority of the system over the quality of sensor, incredible selection of lenses (that can be and are successfully used on Sony cameras) etc, etc...
> Canon is very strong corporation that will survive this small hick up, and sooner they realize the need to fix something the better we all will be including the 1Dx owners ;-)
> ...



+1


----------



## PureClassA (Jan 10, 2015)

I think this rumor may have gotten garbled in translation. I really don't think they will make three ... but two makes sense UNLESS the 6D2 is not far behind.

I think they need a good performer for the all around mid 20MP market "THE Wedding Camera" kinda thing. Then you have your upscale high MP beast. It has to be price competitive to the Nikon D810 or the 46 MP replacement if that will be the same range.

I just don't see Canon screwing the pooch on their 5 line. This is their professional bread and butter baby.


----------



## Don Haines (Jan 10, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Tomorrow, I'll be out shooting raptors at the seashore for several hours. Air temps will be in the teens and with wind chill it'll be about 0 °F (–18 °C). Trying to operate an awkward little body with poorly designed controls wearing thick gloves as the AF fails to effectively track fast-moving subjects and the weak little battery tries to cope with the cold and maybe it will last long enough that the LCD and EVF black out from the low temps leaving me no way to even see the subject...yeah, a Sony a7R is just what I need to push some envelopes...


Look forward to seeing the results... good luck in the chase!

I'm going out hunting black backed woodpeckers and red breasted nuthatches tomorrow... The temperature is supposed to hit a high of -14C (before wind chill). I certainly agree with you that the ability to handle the cold is wonderful feature... I don't have enough experience on it to say how much, but the 7D2 is definitely far more tolerant of cold than the 60D or 5D2 was....

This is another factor of great importance to those in cooler climates..... and completely useless to those in the tropics. Another perfect example how to one person a feature can be a critical requirement, yet to the next person not even worth considering.


----------



## Dylan777 (Jan 10, 2015)

This CR2 reminded me of 5D III rumors. While shooting with 5D2, I was thrilled when I saw 5D III AF system. 

Wonder, what 1DX II has to offer 8)


----------



## Orangutan (Jan 10, 2015)

Maiaibing said:


> Canon was stunned when Nikon produced the D800 at a lower price than the 5DIII. I am certain Canon is doing everything they can to reverse that situation with the 5DIV



FP!!    

Where did you get that information? If that were the case Canon would have lowered the price of the 5D3. The reports I've seen suggest that the 5D3 vastly outsold the D800 line-up. It's much more likely that the D750 was produced to play catch-up with the 5D3. The D800 was (rightly, I believe) praised as a studio/landscape specialist camera, but I believe the 5D3 ate its lunch in the overall market.


----------



## PureClassA (Jan 10, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > Canon was stunned when Nikon produced the D800 at a lower price than the 5DIII. I am certain Canon is doing everything they can to reverse that situation with the 5DIV
> ...



Correct.


----------



## Eldar (Jan 10, 2015)

With their latest lens releases, Canon has shown that they are fully aware of what it takes to compete in this market. We also know that they are better at making money than any of the others. I´m crossing my fingers for a true D810 basher and if it is, it will not be cheap ...


----------



## mrsfotografie (Jan 10, 2015)

I'm trying to think what features I would _need_ in a MkIV and I can't think of any. The MkIII is a totally satisfactory stills camera for me, whereas the 5DII obviously had its shortcomings (AF, banding noise, and the little known internal mirror reflection with 'off-stage' light sources. The latter also occurs with the MkIII but very much less so.

So incremental improvements is what I'm expecting (I couldn't care less about video, wifi, gps and on-board facebook features) 

What would be great is a completely and totally dust repellent mirror box so I never ever have specs of dust anymore. Even with utmost care I occasionally find something on there though the MkIII has so far managed to clean the sensor of offending dust at every power cycle.


----------



## martti (Jan 10, 2015)

Probably there will be nano-coated dust repellent optical surfaces all over the new camera. 
That would be a good thing.
BTW it is remarkable how good and businesslike the 5DIII feels after having shot with the Sony a6000.


----------



## Maiaibing (Jan 10, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > Canon was stunned when Nikon produced the D800 at a lower price than the 5DIII. I am certain Canon is doing everything they can to reverse that situation with the 5DIV
> ...



There are to my knowledge no available 5DIII sales numbers. But since you have seen reports on 5DIII sales I strongly urge you to share them here since people are very eager to know the numbers. 

What we do know is that Nikon said that their sales of interchangable lens cameras went up 50% 2012/13 (not specifying the D800's contribution to this). During this time Canon's DSLR sales fell from 9.2 mio units to 8.0 mio units (again no info on the 5DIII's contribution).

That Canon "was stunned" is a subjective interpretation of Canon's situation in the days after the launch of the D800.


----------



## Maiaibing (Jan 10, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > Orangutan said:
> ...



What a useless and uninformed comment is this? Why don't you just check up on Canon's financial releases? 

Here are some facts: 
Warning the market of Canon's falling "sales of its signature high-end cameras"
Not meeting earnings forcasts.
Profits down.
Shares down (in a market that saw overall 40% increase in share prices).

That's Canon DSLR business reality. If the board members are doing their job they should be on the backs of the camera dvision at each and every meeting.

http://uk.reuters.com/article/2013/10/24/uk-canon-earnings-idUKBRE99N0CD20131024


----------



## Maiaibing (Jan 10, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > Famateur said:
> ...



I am not very familiar with the SONY system. I consider Nikon the real competition. Their Camera line seems to be somewhat better on almost all takes in the enthusiast range and the bodies are cheaper. Do not see any significant difference in the overall lens lineup either except T/S lenses. 

More for less as I see it.


----------



## Synkka (Jan 10, 2015)

The actual Canon financial statement is not as bleak as that news article. See http://www.canon.com/ir/results/2014/rslt2014q3e.pdf

Now you wouldn't expect a Company to be too negative in their own financial statements, regarding the camera market they expect low end digital cameras to not do well, but are expecting recover in the interchangeable section.

Overall as a company they are still forecasting profit.

Do you read the figures differently?


----------



## mrsfotografie (Jan 10, 2015)

martti said:


> Probably there will be nano-coated dust repellent optical surfaces all over the new camera.
> That would be a good thing.
> BTW it is remarkable how good and businesslike the 5DIII feels after having shot with the Sony a6000.



The a6000 is a nice compact mirrorless and it is surprisingly good as an alternative to an aps-c dslr. As you say the MkIII is a different beast altogether. It's the powerhouse that gets the job done every time.


----------



## Synkka (Jan 10, 2015)

dilbert said:


> mrsfotografie said:
> 
> 
> > I'm trying to think what features I would _need_ in a MkIV and I can't think of any. The MkIII is a totally satisfactory stills camera for me, whereas the 5DII obviously had its shortcomings (AF, banding noise, and the little known internal mirror reflection with 'off-stage' light sources. The latter also occurs with the MkIII but very much less so.
> ...


So if the 5d3 doesn't meet your needs why stick with canon? Or is it that it does meet your needs and want more?

The grass is always greener on the other side. And there is no perfect camera you should keep that in mind


----------



## martti (Jan 10, 2015)

Luckily, I do not have to run the international megaenterprise that Canon is today...I do not have the competence nor do I have the figures or the slightest idea of what is in the pipelines of their enormous R&D division. They are big in office supplies and the camera business accounts only for about 30% of their total figures.
They introduced new compact cameras which seems weird from where we are looking but possibly there is a growing market in Asian countries that we are not aware of. 

They are arriving late to the mirrorless segment because they have established a 60% share in the pro and prosumer market. Unlike prosumers who have the luxury of changing their gears according to their affects, professionals look at the bottom line: With the stuff I got, can I sell my product or do I have to invest. What will be the returns of my investment? Should I go for the best possible result or should I just be a bit better than the next guy?

No company is too big to fall. Canon has been driven like a _business_ for a long time with the long term focus on keeping its position in the market. It has been doing very well. Sony went through some heavy restructuring where the Japanese production lines were transferred to Thailand. There have been some quality concerns after that move. Nikon is facing some serious reprofiling since the shrinkage of the camera market has hit it to the core of its business –its revenues are 70% based on their opticals. 

Why is this interesting?
Because people identify with the gear they use like sports fans do with their favorite football teams. Or ice hockey, if you are Canadian, excuse me and sorry. It is funny and it is human.
I guess I go and take some pictures of my neighbor's cat now with My Little Sony. 
People like pictures of cats and ducks. I do, too.


----------



## 100 (Jan 10, 2015)

Maiaibing said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > Maiaibing said:
> ...



Are you comparing the same years? 
Nikons fiscal year ends march 31, Canons fiscal year ends December 31 so on April 1st 2015 Nikon starts with fiscal year 2016 while Canon will still be in fiscal year 2015 for the next 9 months. 
For a good comparison the period has to be exactly the same, especially for the 2012-2013 period because 2012 was the best year ever as far as sales numbers.

CIPA statistics can be found at http://www.cipa.jp/stats/dc_e.html


----------



## saveyourmoment (Jan 10, 2015)

I am dreaming off a 1d..whatever.. with approx 50mp and the opportunity to change that slow beast by click and make it a 18-24mp fast 14pics/s 1dx successor. Meanwhile i shoot with what I've got with really nice glas! Make photos be an artist and don't hype the technic.... there are really great photos made with cameras which even can't compete with the phonecameras these days...


----------



## lintoni (Jan 10, 2015)

dilbert said:


> And if you haven't read reviews where people are asking "What's with 'X'?" and similar things then you're not very widely read.



What a curious and wonderful world planet dilbert is...


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 10, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Sony has shown what is possible with new sensor technology whilst Canon hasn't updated theirs in many years and so on. That then leads to people defending Canon doing little or nothing in various areas whilst it leaves others exasperated.



Canon as shown what is possible with lens and optical technology, while Sony has done little or nothing in that area. Some people seem to think bare silicon sensors take pictures…


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 10, 2015)

Maiaibing said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > Maiaibing said:
> ...



Since you bring up uninformed, have *you* checked their most recent financial information? I suspect he did, or he's a very astute guesser. What he stated that I highlighted above is almost exactly what they report – Canon a y/y drop of 15% on ILC/lenses, Nikon a y/y drop of 26% ILC/lenses. 

I'm sure neither board is particularly pleased given the overall situation in the industry (as the CIPA data show), but Nikon's board has the added displeasure of watching their recent gains in market share erode and the gap between their sales and those of the market leader – a gap they have failed to close for 11 years – begin to widen again.


----------



## Orangutan (Jan 10, 2015)

Maiaibing said:


> There are to my knowledge no available 5DIII sales numbers. But since you have seen reports on 5DIII sales I strongly urge you to share them here since people are very eager to know the numbers.


I believe you're correct that the manufacturers don't release sales numbers for individual models. I don't recall where, but someone did an automated series of snapshots of Amazon's top-selling DSLR list. Since these are updated hourly no one ranking is significant; however, the trend over time was that the 5D3 was ahead except for bumps right around the release of each D8xx model. Even now, with the 5D3 being rumored for replacement, it's two spots ahead of the cheaper and better-spec'ed D810, and just one notch below the new and well-regarded D750. (again, this is an hourly snapshot, so YMMV). 

I think everyone wishes we had that data; however, barring the assistance of the the DPRK we're not likely to see it. Inferring from retailer information is all we have.



> What we do know is that Nikon said that their sales of interchangable lens cameras went up 50% 2012/13 (not specifying the D800's contribution to this). During this time Canon's DSLR sales fell from 9.2 mio units to 8.0 mio units (again no info on the 5DIII's contribution).


Different fiscal years.



> That Canon "was stunned" is a subjective interpretation of Canon's situation in the days after the launch of the D800.


Thanks for the clarification; however, I repeat that if they'd been stunned they'd have dropped the price of the 5D3.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 10, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> > That Canon "was stunned" is a subjective interpretation of Canon's situation in the days after the launch of the D800.
> 
> 
> Thanks for the clarification; however, I repeat that if they'd been stunned they'd have dropped the price of the 5D3.



They did drop the price of the 5DIII. After it had been out nearly 3 years, during which time Nikon released four new full frame cameras...and they dropped the price by ~10%. Yeah, Canon was 'stunned'... :


----------



## Orangutan (Jan 10, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > Orangutan said:
> ...


I must confess: not based on financial statements, just guesses pulled out of the aether. The only point I was making was that y/y losses were only relevant in comparison to competitors' financial health and the overall market.


----------



## Maiaibing (Jan 10, 2015)

100 said:


> Are you comparing the same years?
> Nikons fiscal year ends march 31, Canons fiscal year ends December 31 so on April 1st 2015 Nikon starts with fiscal year 2016 while Canon will still be in fiscal year 2015 for the next 9 months.
> For a good comparison the period has to be exactly the same, especially for the 2012-2013 period because 2012 was the best year ever as far as sales numbers.
> 
> CIPA statistics can be found at http://www.cipa.jp/stats/dc_e.html



Would of course be better if we could compare directly. But trying to use the facts that _are available _to us surely beats unsubstantiated claims? 

I have not tried to cross calculate on the basis of the overall CIPA numbers as its a black box numbers game as long as they are not sharing brand specific numbers. But I know that some analysts selling reports on the developments within the imaging industry actually do that.

However, there are other interesting CIPA info, which I am sure Canon is carefully studying. Such as that young buyers of digital cameras have dropped from more than half of total sales to less than 25% and that the small format interchangable lens cameras have made a lot more women buy into interchangable lens cameras.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 10, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> I must confess: not based on financial statements, just guesses pulled out of the aether. The only point I was making was that y/y losses were only relevant in comparison to competitors' financial health and the overall market.



Impressive…most impressive. ;D

The other factor to consider is that camera sales make up a much greater proportion of Nikon's overall revenue than they do for Canon.


----------



## PVS (Jan 10, 2015)

In all honesty, no matter how much I love my A7 it still IS an amateur camera. It is probably the best landscape 35mil camera for me but it has nothing to compete with 5DIII. Seriously, why do we compare it here anyway, you can tell from miles away they are completely different species. But if you want to know which one of the two is better all-around tool you really have to be an idiot to choose Sony. 

People who keep on complaining they find current Canon's offerings restricting are probably amateurs who won't shell-out that kind of money on camera anyhow, a $1,5k difference between A7 and 5dmk3 is not much of a difference, you can make that money in a week with your photography and keep the 'change' for some primes.

For now I really don't see reason to upgrade from 5Dmk3. The only features that would make me buy next model would be revival of ECF and backlit buttons like on older Nokia phones. Video guys could probably think of something else but for still hardly.


----------



## Maiaibing (Jan 10, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Since you bring up uninformed, have *you* checked their most recent financial information?
> 
> I'm sure neither board is particularly pleased given the overall situation in the industry (as the CIPA data show), but Nikon's board has the added displeasure of watching their recent gains in market share erode and the gap between their sales and those of the market leader – a gap they have failed to close for 11 years – begin to widen again.



I actually follow these things very carefully out of a general interest based on my previous business relationship with Canon. 

As I have noted several times already I agree that Nikon also must be very unhappy about their 2014 sales. And indeed Nikon is in a much more vulnerable financial situation than Canon.

===

I'm ending my participation in this discussion here. My key point - to which I stick - is that Canon cannot be happy with their current DSLR sales and thus should be strongly motivated to regain ground by coming out with a 5DIV that outshines Nikon's D750 and D810.

We will se what Canon brings to market soon. After that we can all let our money do the talking.

Happy Shooting!


----------



## Orangutan (Jan 10, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > I must confess: not based on financial statements, just guesses pulled out of the aether. The only point I was making was that y/y losses were only relevant in comparison to competitors' financial health and the overall market.
> ...


Random.


----------



## Orangutan (Jan 10, 2015)

Maiaibing said:


> My key point - to which I stick - is that Canon cannot be happy with their current DSLR sales and thus should be strongly motivated


This applies to all of the manufacturers, not just Canon.



> regain ground by coming out with a 5DIV that outshines Nikon's D750 and D810.


The current 5D3 mostly does that now, from the business perspective.



> we can all let our money do the talking.


Yup.



> Happy Shooting!


Cheers.


----------



## Sporgon (Jan 10, 2015)

Tend to agree with the comment that a new 5D split into one with, and one without an AA would be very unCanon- like. Canon tend to decide what's good for us and then supply that. And as the effects of a good AA filter can all but be cancelled out in post then it's probably better on balance to have one. 

Still think we are going to see an interchaneable Finder. It's been pointed out, correctly, that this type of high end feature has only been seen on the highest model - the 1 series in the past, but in those days we didn't have an upgraded 5 series. I would suggest that the 5DIII was very much the 1Ds IV. Despite the 'crippling' of the 5DII with the 20D/5D AF system, pros still chose this much cheaper camera instead of the 1Ds III on the whole ( which rather says something about the importance these sort of photographers place on AF does it not ?), and in the end Canon seemed to adopt the "if you can't beat them join them" approach and up graded the 5 series, and did so with only a relatively small price increase. So I think that it is possible we will see this feature in a 5DIV, probably the 's' version if that has a 52 mp DPAF sensor, so good focus can be achieved with the interchangeable EVF.


----------



## erjlphoto (Jan 10, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > Orangutan said:
> ...


----------



## brad-man (Jan 10, 2015)

The only part of this rumor that I believe is that there is replacement talk...


----------



## PureClassA (Jan 10, 2015)

"....and that the small format interchangable lens cameras have made a lot more women buy into interchangable lens cameras."


Yeah, and they all suddenly become "professionals for hire" after one class or YouTube, make business cards , and become the infamous Nikon 3100 w/ kit lens Mom-tographer :


----------



## sanj (Jan 10, 2015)

Sporgon said:


> Tend to agree with the comment that a new 5D split into one with, and one without an AA would be very unCanon- like. Canon tend to decide what's good for us (them) and then supply that. And as the effects of a good AA filter can all but be cancelled out in post then it's probably better on balance to have one.
> 
> Still think we are going to see an interchaneable Finder. It's been pointed out, correctly, that this type of high end feature has only been seen on the highest model - the 1 series in the past, but in those days we didn't have an upgraded 5 series. I would suggest that the 5DIII was very much the 1Ds IV. Despite the 'crippling' of the 5DII with the 20D/5D AF system, pros still chose this much cheaper camera instead of the 1Ds III on the whole ( which rather says something about the importance these sort of photographers place on AF does it not ?), and in the end Canon seemed to adopt the "if you can't beat them join them" approach and up graded the 5 series, and did so with only a relatively small price increase. So I think that it is possible we will see this feature in a 5DIV, probably the 's' version if that has a 52 mp DPAF sensor, so good focus can be achieved with the interchangeable EVF.


----------



## sanj (Jan 10, 2015)

anthonyd said:


> kuffer said:
> 
> 
> > I bet a kidney and a lung that Canon would never launch such cameras. The with and without AA filter just makes no sense in the whole Canon scheme. It is the same as saying that AA filter is good and bad for your photos and Canon would never assume that they release products that is actually bad.
> ...



hahahaha


----------



## crashpc (Jan 10, 2015)

sanj: didn´t spot this one. But it made my day ROFL!


----------



## martti (Jan 10, 2015)

I might be mistaken but I remember having seen Canon predicting a 8.5% total growth for 2014 after the third semester figures had arrived. Which would mean beating the market.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 10, 2015)

Maiaibing said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Since you bring up uninformed, have *you* checked their most recent financial information?
> ...



The problem isn't your statement, it's the rationale you attach to it. Yes, Canon needs to increase sales and reverse the overall decline in the market, at least insofar as it has affected them. Nikon needs to do the same, but in addition they need to outshine Canon, who they have remained behind consistently (and are now falling further behind).


----------



## bdunbar79 (Jan 10, 2015)

Neuro,

There you go again. Making statements based upon facts and statistics, rather than emotion. Sheesh.

;D


----------



## Sporgon (Jan 10, 2015)

sanj said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > Tend to agree with the comment that a new 5D split into one with, and one without an AA would be very unCanon- like. Canon tend to decide what's good for us (them) and then supply that. And as the effects of a good AA filter can all but be cancelled out in post then it's probably better on balance to have one.
> ...



My wording is ironic, yours is sarcastic


----------



## martti (Jan 10, 2015)

Who needs more viewfinders when you can shoot tethered with you iPad and even your iPhone? (or the corresponding Android, Win or Mac devices). Now, then if you could have the spread on your tehtering device and see what kind of a shoot you'd need and then shoot it. That would be nice.
Tethering we will need more, that's for sure so why not make it easier and cheaper....


----------



## bdunbar79 (Jan 10, 2015)

dash2k8 said:


> > Not really. Considering about 30-40% of my income comes from shooting sports, and the A7r SUCKS at shooting sports, I'm perfectly happy with my pair of 1Dx's.
> 
> 
> 
> I have to say this is not fair. The A7r and 1Dx are completely different classes. I have a a7s and would never think to take action shots with it as even my old 7D could focus faster. There are advantages to each body. The new a7ii with its 5-axis stabilization AND fast cont. AF is miles ahead of the 1Dx for video, for example.



Completely fair based upon what he said. Did you read what he said? Secondly, it's not a false statement; it does.

Last but not least, I don't care about video. The A7ii will still not track as good as the 1Dx when used in sports, especially with Zone AF or all points active and using auto AF point switch. Not even close.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Jan 10, 2015)

dilbert said:


> mrsfotografie said:
> 
> 
> > I'm trying to think what features I would _need_ in a MkIV and I can't think of any. The MkIII is a totally satisfactory stills camera for me, whereas the 5DII obviously had its shortcomings (AF, banding noise, and the little known internal mirror reflection with 'off-stage' light sources. The latter also occurs with the MkIII but very much less so.
> ...



Banding is better at high ISO on the 5D3 than on the 5D2 for sure.
At low ISO it's the same (well I mean only in one direction really badly on the 5D3, but whether one or two is somewhat immaterial as so long as it is there in any direction.... although you could apply anti-banding filters with a bit less damage on the 5D3).


----------



## ChristopherMarkPerez (Jan 10, 2015)

dilbert said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



But... but... but... system! system! system!


----------



## bdunbar79 (Jan 10, 2015)

Oh hey! Just with an adapter, Sony can take advantage of all of the advancements Canon has made in their lens lineup. Screw Canon, Sony's better.

;D


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 10, 2015)

bdunbar79 said:


> Oh hey! Just with an adapter, Sony can take advantage of all of the advancements Canon has made in their lens lineup. Screw Canon, Sony's better.



Exactly! As everyone knows, adapters support AF just as well as the native mount, and perpetual compatibility is guaranteed. 

*</sarcasm>*


----------



## Don Haines (Jan 10, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> bdunbar79 said:
> 
> 
> > Oh hey! Just with an adapter, Sony can take advantage of all of the advancements Canon has made in their lens lineup. Screw Canon, Sony's better.
> ...



I think we need bigger sarcasm tags


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 10, 2015)

Done.


----------



## Synkka (Jan 10, 2015)

Synkka said:


> The actual Canon financial statement is not as bleak as that news article. See http://www.canon.com/ir/results/2014/rslt2014q3e.pdf
> 
> Now you wouldn't expect a Company to be too negative in their own financial statements, regarding the camera market they expect low end digital cameras to not do well, but are expecting recover in the interchangeable section.
> 
> ...


Again here is the actual financial statement, people should read this before making up things.

Another profitable year for canon isn't exactly a bad thing


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## tcmatthews (Jan 10, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> bdunbar79 said:
> 
> 
> > Oh hey! Just with an adapter, Sony can take advantage of all of the advancements Canon has made in their lens lineup. Screw Canon, Sony's better.
> ...


All sarcasm aside if you do not care about auto focus the Sony A7 line are excellent cameras. 

Outside of Sports, fast moving wildlife, candid shots, and anything moving auto focus is over rated. I think that the modern DSLR has spoiled all of us. It does not help that current DSLR do not come with manual focus aids. Sure you can get a manual focus screen in some cameras but it is still not as good as the focus aids (peeking and ability to zoom in) in an A7 EVA. 

If you do not care about auto focus go by a Sony and convert your Canon lens. I plan on buying what ever high MP camera Sony camera they come out with to replace the A7r. Assuming it has first curtain electronic shutter. It will be cheaper than the high MP Canon and sufficient for what I plan on using it for. But I am not selling my Canon cameras. Because I also take pictures of moving things. I will buy a high MP Canon body when it is priced around a Canon 6D.

If you are expecting auto focus with Canon Lens on a Sony you are missing the point. Many lens perform about as good as the EOS M. And we all know what people say about that. I still prefer using old converted manual lens on my Nex6 over Canon EF lens.


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## Don Haines (Jan 10, 2015)

tcmatthews said:


> If you are expecting auto focus with Canon Lens on a Sony you are missing the point. Many lens perform about as good as the EOS M. And we all know what people say about that. I still prefer using old converted manual lens on my Nex6 over Canon EF lens.



With any system, be it Canon, Nikon, Sony, Panasonic, Olympus, or whatever... the native lenses will AF faster than any third party or adapted lenses.


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## PureClassA (Jan 11, 2015)

There's and ebb and flow to any market cycle. Right now Sony has the edge on current SENSOR tech, but Canon still has the crown of sales and market share. While I agree with you dilbert that Sony certainly expands the potential for the Canon system of glass, it's no where near the level of Canon as a business model for serving working professionals (complete systems and service). Sony has its place. Canon can't touch them on cinema and video for the money (the a7s for example) but I believe 2015 could well be the year Canon may regain its innovative dominance. The new glass we've seen in the last 12 months has been stellar and I'm personally giving them a wide berth with these rumors of high MP. If those like me are shown to be mistaken when the products actually arrive, so be it. But until then we are left with mere conjecture and dreams. Let's reserve our daggers until we see the whites of their eyes with these new bodies.


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## Bob Howland (Jan 11, 2015)

lintoni said:


> Bob Howland said:
> 
> 
> > Orangutan said:
> ...



How does the market demand products if many/most of the people in that market may not even know they exist? Furthermore, stores stocking more not-Canon/Not-Nikon cameras means (1) they have to reduce the stocking levels of Canon and/or Nikon and/or (2) they have to stop stocking something completely unrelated (i.e., expand the sizes of their photographic departments) and/or (3) they have to expand the size of their stores.


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## privatebydesign (Jan 11, 2015)

dilbert said:


> ChristopherMarkPerez said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



If by "working system" you mean massively compromised with severe loss of functionality then yes, you might have a point.


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## tcmatthews (Jan 11, 2015)

Don Haines said:


> tcmatthews said:
> 
> 
> > If you are expecting auto focus with Canon Lens on a Sony you are missing the point. Many lens perform about as good as the EOS M. And we all know what people say about that. I still prefer using old converted manual lens on my Nex6 over Canon EF lens.
> ...


That is the point apparently you half get it. But for most of my general photography I have found I do not need auto focus at all if I have focus aids. 

My Nex6 and native E mount 50mm it will go to big rectangle auto focus in indoor light. So it is also a Manual focus only moment. I have found that is not really a problem giving peeking and other focus aides. I also found it does not really do f stops faster than 2.8 very well. In that regard the EOS M is more accurate when it eventual gets to auto focus. In the two years I have owned the Nex6 most pictures taken with it were using FD Lenses and an old M42 lens. I only bought the Metabones adapter to fill in the holes in the Lens lineup until native lenses were available.

For a year the only reason to use my 60D was ML. Sense I bought my 6D I have been very happy with it. The 6D is a very good low light camera. If a high MP 5Ds is released for around the MSRP of the 5dIII it will be a very hard decision. I will still want a Sony A7 something to put the old lens to use because I enjoy that. But it will not have to be high MP if Canon releases a reasonably priced high MP camera. I can only imagine what a 50 mp camera can do for wildlife photography. 

Not all of the Sony native E mount lens I am interested in even have auto focus. Zeiss Loxia 2/35 anybody.


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## bvukich (Jan 11, 2015)

The 5DIV (non-"S") will launch at or below the 5DIII launch price, call it a hunch.


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## Bob Howland (Jan 11, 2015)

unfocused said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Bob Howland said:
> ...



Please stop using the "leading-edge" and "trailing-edge" terminology because that's not what you're talking about. Those terms have meaning only with respect to a product or group of products with respect to their own life cycle.

Actually I believe that MILCs are or at least very soon will be superior to DSLRs because (1) they will be cheaper to produce than DSLRs due to the removal of the mirror, (2) they will have much higher frame rates than DSLRs, also due to the removal of the mirror (e.g., Samsung NX-1 vs Canon 1Dx and Nikon D4s) and (3) they are now smaller, lighter and much quieter than DSLRs also due the removal of the mirror. Are you sensing a trend about the mirror??? The critical questions are (1) how good EVFs can become, (2) how fast they can be improved and (3) how much they will cost when they are at least as good as an OVF.

Clearly we will have to agree to disagree in our predictions about these last three questions.


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## PureClassA (Jan 11, 2015)

bvukich said:


> The 5DIV (non-"S") will launch at or below the 5DIII launch price, call it a hunch.



Bingo!!


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## kuffer (Jan 11, 2015)

here's +1 internet for your response


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## tcmatthews (Jan 11, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> bvukich said:
> 
> 
> > The 5DIV (non-"S") will launch at or below the 5DIII launch price, call it a hunch.
> ...



Given the current exchange rate I expect the 5DIII to drop in price and the 5DIV (non-"S") release at or near current MSRP. I expect the 5DIV (non-"S") will have Dual pixel CMOS auto focus. Possibly 4K video. The 5Ds will not have Dual pixel CMOS auto focus. I think that the 5Ds will come first and be priced around the 5D III release price. The 5D IV (non-"S") early next year.

Classic internet 1-up answer.


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## bdunbar79 (Jan 11, 2015)

tcmatthews said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > tcmatthews said:
> ...



Who cares? You're in the minority. MOST people use AF all the time.


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## bdunbar79 (Jan 11, 2015)

<Outside of Sports, fast moving wildlife, candid shots, and anything moving auto focus is over rated.>

So basically, sports, weddings, wildlife, candid shots. OTHER THAN THAT, AF is over-rated.

LOL.


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## privatebydesign (Jan 11, 2015)

bdunbar79 said:


> <Outside of Sports, fast moving wildlife, candid shots, and anything moving auto focus is over rated.>
> 
> So basically, sports, weddings, wildlife, candid shots. OTHER THAN THAT, AF is over-rated.
> 
> LOL.



Yes, very much a case of Monty Python.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9foi342LXQE


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## tcmatthews (Jan 11, 2015)

bdunbar79 said:


> <Outside of Sports, fast moving wildlife, candid shots, and anything moving auto focus is over rated.>
> 
> So basically, sports, weddings, wildlife, candid shots. OTHER THAN THAT, AF is over-rated.
> 
> LOL.



Perhaps I should have put a sarcasm tag in there so people could get the inside joke. Most of my photography involve slow to non moving subjects.


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## bdunbar79 (Jan 11, 2015)

Just having a little fun, that's all.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 11, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > ChristopherMarkPerez said:
> ...



A stopped clock "works" twice a day. Maybe that was his point.


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## tcmatthews (Jan 11, 2015)

bdunbar79 said:


> tcmatthews said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



That is kinda the point. If you want auto focus with Canon lens on a Sony camera you will be disappointed. If you need and use Canons fast auto focus and want to use Canon lens on a Sony camera you will be double disappointed. Forget sports, forget birds in flight. Forget Candide of small children. Auto focus with Canon lenses is just two slow. You can out focus by hand with USM Canon lens. It is more enjoyable to focus lens made for manual focus. 

If you are not willing to accept the limitations of an A7 or other Sony E mount camera dont buy one. If you want auto focus buy native lenses or convert Sony A mount lenses. 

If you are looking to convert lens you are really saying who needs auto focus.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 11, 2015)

tcmatthews said:


> If you want auto focus with Canon lens on a Sony camera you will be disappointed.



Blasphemy! You profane the Holy Exmor, which by virtue of its omnipotence can do everything, and by definition everything includes autofocus. Sayeth Exmor, "Thou shalt have no other cameras before me." 



Hey Don, do I need a sarcasm tag here, too?


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## privatebydesign (Jan 11, 2015)

dilbert said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



You obviously haven't practiced what you preach, go use a Sony with a Metabones and try out the AF.


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## Don Haines (Jan 11, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> tcmatthews said:
> 
> 
> > If you want auto focus with Canon lens on a Sony camera you will be disappointed.
> ...


probably.... but while all this was going on I found out that you can walk around for 5 hours at -13C with a 7D2 and that it will still work. I hope that any future Canon upgrades will also handle the cold as well...

and may I say that 10FPS and a kick-ass AF system are essential when trying to get pictures of small birds in flight.


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## sanj (Jan 11, 2015)

Sporgon said:


> sanj said:
> 
> 
> > Sporgon said:
> ...


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## Orangutan (Jan 11, 2015)

tcmatthews said:


> bdunbar79 said:
> 
> 
> > <Outside of Sports, fast moving wildlife, candid shots, and anything moving auto focus is over rated.>
> ...



And there's no problem at all with that. Be aware, however, that you're in the distinct minority who can benefit from lens adapters. Because of that, you should not expect any camera/lens maker to cater to your needs, pace Zeiss.


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## tcmatthews (Jan 11, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > privatebydesign said:
> ...


Not to mention compatibility. Not all EF lenses will auto focus. Pure manual lens with out the focus conformation chips will not work on the Metabones so you will need a separate dumb converter if you have those. All lens will be reported as Sony Lenses. If you want the correct lens corrections applied in Lightroom you will have to manual select them and or change the lens meta data. I could go on. But I think you get the idea. 

I think I will say with my Canon Cameras for my Canon lenses. Personally I want to see what these rumored Cameras can do. I am not planning on upgrading my Canon DSLR soon. But perhaps I could be convinced.


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## privatebydesign (Jan 11, 2015)

dilbert said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



Read tcmatthews reply above. You really do have an incredible habit of talking from a position of no experience of the suggestions you make.


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## grey_sally (Jan 11, 2015)

May already have been mentioned, but if they're planning on gearing the new cams toward video shooting in the same way that they did with the 5Diii (its resolution is no accident), then the MP count will have to be 2.458 x n2. i.e. 2.5, 9.8, *22.1*, 39.3, 61.4, anything else would indicate it's no longer as high a priority. 39.3 in particular for a lower-res(!) model would be very nice for 4K, for instance, especially if they finally bring in CFast/USB3/Clean HDMI out


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## PureClassA (Jan 11, 2015)

Don Haines said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > tcmatthews said:
> ...



That shot sucks. It's short 2 stops of DR. I bet you can't even push the shad.... hell I gotta stop, I'm laughing too hard. I'm not the least surprised that rig withstood 5 hours of hard freeze. I AM surprised You did :


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## PureClassA (Jan 11, 2015)

As someone who owns Canon and has for decades, but is very interested and desirous of purchasing a Sony I'm under no illusion that metabones is a panacea for the EF glass owner. However, it does keep electronic communication between say, a 70-200 IS II and a Sony a7s, allowing one to electronically manipulate the aperture. If you're buying such a camera to shoot video, this is just perfect as manual focus is most common for such application. If you're expecting super fast AF for still photography .... you'll be disappointed. Philip Bloom is a great example. Shoots everything on Sony cameras (F55, F7, a7s) and has a treasure trove of most EF mount glass including Sigma ART in EF mount. They are his go-to glass for his cinematography. He does have some of the Sony glass for special cases where he really needs fast AF for a scene, but he laments the electronic MF assist motors in them because they make repeating a focus pull impossible. Hence the Canon glass with it's full mechanical manual focus. So there are pros and cons each way, but as long as you KNOW what you're getting and what you're using it for then kudos.


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## lintoni (Jan 11, 2015)

Bob Howland said:


> lintoni said:
> 
> 
> > Bob Howland said:
> ...


B&H are now carrying Yongnuo products. How many people know about or have heard of Yongnuo. Yet B&H are stocking them. Why? Because they think they can sell them. Why aren't they stocking more MILCs? Answer please...


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## RLPhoto (Jan 11, 2015)

Don Haines said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > tcmatthews said:
> ...


That's a nice photo. Great timing. 10fps FTW.


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## RLPhoto (Jan 11, 2015)

dilbert said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...


Dude, I tried the metabones + a7 combo and it suxs. Heck the a7 AF suxs period compared to a measly old 5Dc's center AF point. :/ MILC hasn't convinced me of its AF yet and the only hope I've seen is DPAF. (Not terribly quick either.)

You can eat the whole cake with canon or you can eat a little of the cake and have some pie with a sony. Some people just don't like pie in their cake or cake in their pie.


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## martti (Jan 11, 2015)

Am I the only one getting a migraine from these concentric quotes that are getting bigger and bigger and further and further beside the point?

Fully agree: Sony a6000 is _not_ a replacement for a 5DIII. It is a very neat little machine, though.


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## erjlphoto (Jan 11, 2015)

Is there any other loss in functionality aside from AF?
[/quote]


"iF" you own a Sony A7x buy one and let us know. Aren't the adapters returnable if you don't like them?


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## tcmatthews (Jan 11, 2015)

Pure speculation and just to reiterate, I do not expect an actual 5d IV 5D III replacement this year. If it is announced I expect it to be a development announcement. Maybe we will get a 2015 Christmas surprise but color me skeptical. I have no doubt it is coming. I expect it will have:

Dual Pixel CMOS auto focus 
improved auto focus
4K video HDMI out.
USB 3 Interface
Improved SD Card read out (hopefully full speed UHS-II support)
Improved video features Zebras, focus peeking etc.
More FPS but still less than 1Dx
Further speculation. 
It will stay around the same MP but overall Image quality to improve. Of course Canon could be releasing the above specs as a Canon 6D II. Bump the Canon 5d IV to 39 mp with a AA filter. Then release a 50 mp 5Dc with out the AA filter.  Hence the rumors two high MP cameras coming with the 5d III replacement coming later. It will just be 5dc 50 mp with out AA and CMOS dual pixel auto focus. 5D IV around 39 mp with AA filter and CMOS dual pixel auto focus 5D (moved up market). The real 5d III replacement will just be called a 6D II (which moved up market).

Through in a Rebel using the current 6D sensor for an entry level full frame. 

The sad thing is I think Canon could do all of the above if they felt like it. But it is unlikely. More likely there are two versions of the high MP camera in development one with AA and one with out. Canon has yet to pick which it will release. It would be unlike them to release both of them. But they have not made this decision yet. Then there is another camera in development that is targeted at the same market segment as the 5D III. 

I do think we will find out soon what this high MP camera or cameras are.


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## tcmatthews (Jan 11, 2015)

erjlphoto said:


> "iF" you own a Sony A7x buy one and let us know. Aren't the adapters returnable if you don't like them?



They are now because you can actual buy Metabones from B&H. So that is one improvement that happened after I bought mine. Which is a huge peace of mind. But good luck getting a firmware update as far as I know you still have to ship them off to China.


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## Khnnielsen (Jan 11, 2015)

martti said:


> Am I the only one getting a migraine from these concentric quotes that are getting bigger and bigger and further and further beside the point?
> 
> Fully agree: Sony a6000 is _not_ a replacement for a 5DIII. It is a very neat little machine, though.



You are not the only one. The internet doesn't bring out the best sides of people, and I sometimes need a break from the forums, so I can keep my faith in humanity.

Besides - it can't be that surprising that a $600 camera can't replace a $3000 camera. I would hope that you get something for your money, when you spend that much on a camera.


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## The Flasher (Jan 11, 2015)

unfocused said:


> My wish list:
> 
> Some variation of 7DII/1DX autofocus;
> *Touch Screen* with a sensible user interface;
> ...



I'm waiting for an ff body with articulating screen a la 70D, and a touch screen is welcome, providing that function can be turned off

I've been using the 6D's WiFi capability and love it - once I got past the initial set-up. It's a great tool especially as a proofing device while shooting with a client over your shoulder. Just connect tablet or smartphone to camera, view gallery, and presto, client's seeing images, starring favourites (editing for you) leaving you with room to breathe and work. Plus you can use liveview and compose change settings etc remotely. Sony A7R's connectivity pales by comparison. I don't think having a pro DSLR that can upload online directly would solve any problems for me.

Dual Pix af is a must going forward, and I'd never say no to more DR


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## privatebydesign (Jan 11, 2015)

Khnnielsen said:


> martti said:
> 
> 
> > Am I the only one getting a migraine from these concentric quotes that are getting bigger and bigger and further and further beside the point?
> ...



It isn't surprising, what is surprising is some people insist on repeatedly posting here, a Canon centric forum, that it can.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 11, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> Khnnielsen said:
> 
> 
> > martti said:
> ...



I no longer find it surprising, merely rather pathetic.


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## privatebydesign (Jan 11, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > Khnnielsen said:
> ...



I was being generous, it is a New Year


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## AshtonNekolah (Jan 11, 2015)

if anyone remembers canon had a 5DX at one time they was going to bring out with high MP. then things changed very fast maybe they have completed the camera now.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 11, 2015)

AshtonNekolah said:


> if anyone remembers canon had a 5DX at one time they was going to bring out with high MP. then things changed very fast maybe they have completed the camera now.



I recall a rumor of a '5DX'. When did that become fact, did I miss the press release?


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## Respinder (Jan 12, 2015)

I don't understand why a company would decide to release multiple lines or versions of the same camera - why not just release the camera body that can do it all?

For instance, as opposed to having both a high-megapixel camera and a lower (24) megapixel-camera all under the same 5D branding, why not release one under the 5D family and another under the 3D family? Come to think of it - why not call it the 3"C" to avoid the naming issue and make it slightly more video focused but with excellent stills features as well?

Personally, I would rather have a distinct series of cameras at different levels (ie 1D, 3C, 5D, 6D, 7D, etc) rather than seeing a series of cameras at the same level with slightly different feature sets - I hated when Sony did this with the A7 - it only results in confusion for the consumer - there is no reason why a camera at the proper level can meet all of the requirements for the associated photographers/videographers.

Just my two cents..


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## privatebydesign (Jan 12, 2015)

Respinder said:


> I don't understand why a company would decide to release multiple lines or versions of the same camera - why not just release the camera body that can do it all?
> 
> For instance, as opposed to having both a high-megapixel camera and a lower (24) megapixel-camera all under the same 5D branding, why not release one under the 5D family and another under the 3D family? Come to think of it - why not call it the 3"C" to avoid the naming issue and make it slightly more video focused but with excellent stills features as well?
> 
> ...



Because anything with a 5D in the name, if it is in a certain price bracket, is a guaranteed seller. As for why not one camera to do everything, there never can be, technology has outstripped that capacity, what some people want and need is counter productive for others. For instance people shooting sports for web and news print, or function shooters doing a thousand images a night for a standard 8"x10", don't want or need the MP or file sizes attached to them, landscapers don't want or need the processing power for 12 fps with AF, and neither group is overly happy at paying for the 'features' and functionality the other groups hold as essential.

A 5D family makes a lot of sense, but as I said much earlier in the thread, if there were three versions I would think a 5D MkIV (a true 5D MkIII upgrade, a perfect all rounder), a 5DX (high MP landscapers tool) and a 5DC (for the video orientated crowd) would make more sense than two versions of the landscapers version with and without AA filters.


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## martti (Jan 12, 2015)

dilbert said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



migraine!


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 12, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Given that you have failed to articulate any other functionality losses, I'm going to therefore draw the conclusion that the "massively compromised with severe loss of functionality" is in fact limited to one feature and one feature only: autofocus and only when using a 3rd party adapter for 3rd party lenses.



Terrible battery life, Sony's weak UI, shutter-induced vibration, lossy RAW compression...but you go ahead and draw what ever conclusions you want – facts have never affected them before, no reason to let them start now. :


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## J.R. (Jan 12, 2015)

dilbert said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



Just a question for you Dilbert, why haven't you switched to Sony already? Ever since I've been on these forums (early 2012 I believe) all I've seen from you is non-stop Canon bashing. 

For someone facing so many difficulties in getting acceptable IQ from your Canon gear, moving to Nikon/Sony is the best thing you could do and get back to shooting images.


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## DominoDude (Jan 12, 2015)

J.R. said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



@Dollbert:
Agreed, it's time to put the money where your mouth is: Firmly in the Sony camp.
If you are so good at shooting, I'm sure we will all be blown away by your marvelous shots once you start posting with your new *real* gear. (Imaginative, or unowned gear doesn't do the trick for me.)

Right now you sound like someone who has a hot wife, but don't know how to treat her right. Instead you're defaming her, and telling everyone that you, and they, should ogle the neighbors wife, since she is sooo much sexier. It's rather disrespectful.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 12, 2015)

dilbert said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



We're talking about *systems*, is that concept too complex for you or are you merely being intentionally obtuse?


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## Khnnielsen (Jan 12, 2015)

The term "beating a dead horse" comes to mind......


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## tron (Jan 12, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...


He may think that LCD display that shows the menu is implemented on lens glass, that the canon lenses have a leaf shutter that causes the vibration problem and that the compressed raw images are stored in ... the Canon lenses... ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


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## PureClassA (Jan 12, 2015)

Thinking that for some, this conversation has gone .....




. Shot with Canon 5DX and 50mm f 0.6 used Toyota headlight.


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## rambler (Jan 12, 2015)

I would prefer a single version, 5Dmk4 with:

- 26MP
- 8 fps or faster - 10 would be perfect
- 5 seconds of frame buffer plus (so either 40 to 50 frames)
- support for high speed pro memory cards (this will ease the load on the buffer)
- 7Dmk2 type focusing coverage or better, all cross type points with dual cross types in the center
- touch screen for focusing on the back (for video similar to 70D)
- match or better the Sony sensor for dynamic range.

A 3D with a high mega pixel count, say 50MP with the above features but maybe with a slower frame rate, say 5 or 6 per second. 

Cheers,


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## PureClassA (Jan 12, 2015)

rambler said:


> I would prefer a single version, 5Dmk4 with:
> 
> - 26MP
> - 8 fps or faster - 10 would be perfect
> ...



Would be nice but dont hold your breath on 10 FPS. Won't happen. They have to protect the 1 series. I think 7-8 is doable though.


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## bosshog7_2000 (Jan 12, 2015)

Maybe I'm in the minority here but I think Canon should call the new high MP full frame the 'EOS 3'. Forget about 5DS....just go with EOS 3. The film version hasn't been made since 2007 and the 'D' moniker is pointless as everyone already knows it's a digital camera.


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## mkabi (Jan 13, 2015)

Respinder said:


> For instance, as opposed to having both a high-megapixel camera and a lower (24) megapixel-camera all under the same 5D branding, why not release one under the 5D family and another under the 3D family? Come to think of it - why not call it the 3"C" to avoid the naming issue and make it slightly more video focused but with excellent stills features as well?
> 
> Personally, I would rather have a distinct series of cameras at different levels (ie 1D, 3C, 5D, 6D, 7D, etc) rather than seeing a series of cameras at the same level with slightly different feature sets - I hated when Sony did this with the A7 - it only results in confusion for the consumer - there is no reason why a camera at the proper level can meet all of the requirements for the associated photographers/videographers.
> 
> Just my two cents..



I like the idea of a 3C, definitely better than 3D...
And, I've said this in the past, 2D, 3D and 4D are just asking for it... you can think that people are dumb for asking "Oh does it do 3D pictures?" Or people from either Sony or Nikon camps can make fun of us... "they have a 3D camera that doesn't do 3D pictures "

But, reality is that it is just plain dumb... in fact, even if Sonikon people don't make fun... I will...
And, its just common sense not to name a camera 2D, 3D or 4D.

Now, if by chance they do introduce a 3C, I think they should just knock out 6D (being one and only of its kind).
You have a bunch of odd numbers and 6D is sticking out like a sore thumb, with it being the only even number on the high-end FF roster.


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## Khufu (Jan 13, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> Thinking that for some, this conversation has gone .....*imagine above image here*. Shot with Canon 5DX and 50mm f 0.6 used Toyota headlight.


Coooooooool!

...and 3C? People might expect it to be part of the Cinema line then! But... maybe it will also be an 8.8K video camera!


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## martti (Jan 13, 2015)

Call it 5Boob and it will be immediate cybersuccess.


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## J.R. (Jan 13, 2015)

dilbert said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



Have you started to shoot using Sony systems yet?


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## MacPaul (Jan 13, 2015)

MacPaul said:


> We’re told that the next EOS 5D will come in three different versions.
> No matter which versions we will see, if Canon not dramatically improves their sensor IQ (see 7D Mk. II review on DP), they don't have to make these in the first place.


[quote author=dilbert]
Why do you say so? Canon has been more successful than Nikon or Sony despite their better low-ISO IQ. Why do you believe The Market has changed?
[/quote]
Cause it is so! I'm not interested in "the market" (attention, here comes the holy cow, the always so present "market"!), but results.


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## J.R. (Jan 13, 2015)

MacPaul said:


> I'm not interested in "the market" (attention, here comes the holy cow, the always so present "market"!), but results.



The market can remain irrational longer than you can remain solvent


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 13, 2015)

dilbert said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



That's a sad, pathetic little argument – even for you. 

Canon has and continues to tweak their UI with minor improvements. It doesn't need many, it's already quite effectively designed. Sony's UI is poor, and in some cases the evolutions aren't improvements...and it rather badly needs them. As was asked – have *you* used the system of which you seem enamored? 

As for MLU, put it in My Menu. Or register it to a C# setting. Or, given that MLU is usually used on a tripod when you're not in a hurry, just press the button on the back for Live View, which locks up the mirror. Three different ways – all simple – to eliminate mirror vibration. Tell me...what setting on the Sony a7R turns off the *mechanical design flaw* that results in shutter vibration? 

As for the Canon system 'going nowhere', what an asinine comment. Which other system has integrated RF flash control, for example?


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 13, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Except for ...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



AF, frame rate, weather sealing, dual slots, *lots* of improvements from 5DII to 5DIII. 

The theme I see is you thinking a non-programmable button is a terrible oversight but a mechanical flaw in the shutter design that introduces vibration and thus blur into the image is no big deal. Your priorities need some work. 




dilbert said:


> > As for the Canon system 'going nowhere', what an asinine comment. Which other system has integrated RF flash control, for example?
> 
> 
> Meh, 3rd party solutions were available for that before Canon got in on the act there.



Solutions that mean one more thing to futz with, more batteries to carry, few with E-TTL, no guarantee of compatibility, etc. if that's your logic, why should Sony make lenses, after all everyone else's lenses work via a 3rd party adapter.


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## crashpc (Jan 13, 2015)

Khufu: I wouldn´t be really angry to see 70D sensor in entry level DSLR. But I would immediately jump the ship by just seeing they put that 18Mpx sensor in another camera. It is the end for me, even If I´m not in/for entry level DSLR marked. It would be more than pwnage, "reckless" milking, acting as people was really dumb, and so on. They seriously need to put better sensors in there... Gosh! I bought two Canon lenses today!


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## martti (Jan 13, 2015)

The Sony a6000 is a very nicely constructed high-tech picture-taking machine.
*BUT.*
Imagine that your budget depended on getting low-light photos where people are moving around properly timed and at least so abouts in focus. You cannot get the camera to focus an ambient light shot with an f/4 16-70mm Zeiss lens. The focusing light is blocked by the bulky lens! 
One of the girls asked quite bluntly: "Why did you not bring your *real* camera with the *Pomelo* lens?"
She was referring to the 85m f/1.2 *L* which is the size and the shape of the citrus named above.
"For a really good time, make it Pomelo Time"...(ref. 'Lost in Translation')
Whatever she says, I'll do...


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## sdsr (Jan 13, 2015)

tcmatthews said:


> Not to mention compatibility. Not all EF lenses will auto focus. Pure manual lens with out the focus conformation chips will not work on the Metabones so you will need a separate dumb converter if you have those. All lens will be reported as Sony Lenses. If you want the correct lens corrections applied in Lightroom you will have to manual select them and or change the lens meta data. I could go on. But I think you get the idea.



Plus, when you do use EF lenses in MF mode (which is often quicker than AF via Metabones), the manual focusing experience isn't as pleasing as it is with lenses designed to be MF exclusively (that that's true on Canon bodies as well, of course). I'm puzzled, though, by your third sentence - in what way(s) won't they work (or did you mean to omit "out"?)?

As for Dilbert's suggestion (or insistence or whatever it is) that the only thing you lose when adapting lenses is AF, even if that were true, for most people it's not much different from saying of a car that the only thing it lacks is wheels. 

(I have come to prefer MF, love using old manual lenses and, like others with such preferences, think that the Sony A7 series are, for now, the best/easiest way to using them. But it's hard to imagine that we're anything but tiny minority - albeit not too tiny to prevent companies from making adapters or, unfortunately, to keep down the prices of old lenses to the levels they were a few years ago.)


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## J.R. (Jan 14, 2015)

@ Dilbert - I guess you are intentionally not answering my question as to whether you have shifted to a Sony system. I hope you don't because once you do, you'll move your cribbing to the SonyAlpha forums and we'll miss out on your comic relief act here.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 14, 2015)

dilbert said:


> The shutter vibration issue is fixed in the A7II.
> 
> ...I see you're relying on FUD here ("no guarantee of compatibility"). I mean seriously, is that the best you can do to bolster your argument?



Seriously? You're basing your argument that Sony is a better system than Canon on the fact that Canon has a button on their cameras that you find useless (despite the fact that it's purposely there for integration with other parts of their system). 

But...a known issue with the 36 MP a7R that causes blurry images, and you're relying on the "it's fixed in the 24MP a7II and that implies that it'll be fixed in an a7RII that may or may not come" argument? So if there's a known *problem* (which is very different than an inconvenience) with a Sony camera, the 'fix' is not a recall and repair, but rather to wait an indeterminate time then buy the next model?? Yeah, that'll cause some FUD... BTW, did the a7II fix Sony's lossy RAW compression?

Oh, and it's not just _future_ incompatibility. You're conveniently forgetting (or is your memory really so poor?) that all the bona fide issues that I listed were in response to your specific request for issues _other than_ the known, current, and very real problem with the mount adapters that renders AF with non-native lenses unreliable and therefore effectively repudiates your statement that the ability to use Canon lenses on a Sony MILC makes those lenses part of Sony's 'extended system'. 

We're still waiting for you to admit that you haven't used the Sony system and that your praise of it arises from information on the Internet, and amounts to you talking out of an orifice other than your mouth.


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## jeffa4444 (Jan 14, 2015)

The Photography Show 2015 in Birmingham, England on between March 21 - 24th is the second year of the Exhibition and much larger than its first year. 
All the major camera manufacturers are attending (not all were there last year) and Canon have a large stand. The UK is a major Photographic country it actually has more photographic publications than the US and judging by the content Landscape is the biggest group of photographers. If Canon are going to annouce a new 5d I would wager that Birmingham could well be where its first shown in public as the Canon 5d MKIII had its first public showing in Birmingham at the former show held there also held in March. High MP cameras appeal to Landscape Photographers wanting as much sharp as possible from foreground to background it would make sense and timing splits it between CP+ and NAB just a thought.


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## martti (Jan 15, 2015)

the Metabones adapter arrived and I have been playing around enough to understand that I do not want the Metabones version of autofocus with my Canon lenses. It is totally useless. It takes a long time and then it focuses into another dimension where you are not at. Then you try to change focusing modes and the camera tells you that it #just #so #cannot. 

Then you flip the _lense_ to manual focus and get the focus indicator on.
I bet this is the way to really get the point where you want to make it, to the millimetre.
The image you are looking at comes from the same sensor that will take the photo so the two either are in focus or then they are not. This has to be the winning setup since you have removed all the possible sources of error.

Sony seems to be holding a winning formula in its hands. Certainly, they are perfecting the details and doing their best to make it as user friendly as possible. 
I have to say, the EF 100mm f/2.0 shines on the Sony...what will the girls say is another thing.
What will the result look on hig magnification on the screen. That I will talk about later.

This looks like a whole new ball game here.
5DIII and the Pomelo for the girls, OK but this Sony is starting to impress me.
Nothing like it has ever been in the market before.


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## Bob Howland (Jan 20, 2015)

lintoni said:


> Bob Howland said:
> 
> 
> > lintoni said:
> ...


First, B&H already carries just about every MILC made. Second, most photographic non-gearheads outside of New York City (at least the ones that I know) have never heard of B&H. However, I do know of two people who bought their Rebels at Sam's Club. Another acquaintance bought his at Best Buy. We're not talking about highly educated consumers here, but their money is just as good as yours or mine.


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## lintoni (Jan 20, 2015)

Bob Howland said:


> lintoni said:
> 
> 
> > Bob Howland said:
> ...


Their money is indeed as good as yours or mine, and when stores think that they can get people to part with that money in exchange for a MILC, _then_ stores will stock MILCs. Why would you think stores would stock something that there isn't sufficient demand for? Because _you_ believe that people are ignorant and they would all buy a MILC if only they knew that they existed?


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## martti (Jan 20, 2015)

am I alone, am I strange, dazzled and confused in thinking that people want pictures rather than cameras
they want them easy, they want them sharp enough with warm saturated colors and just about good enough that they'd upload in two minutes over 3G

we are the weirdos, the market is right


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## solomonshv (Jan 26, 2015)

lots of sony vs canon bashing going on here. personally, i sold my 5DM3 after using an A7R with a metabones converter for 2 months. if you don't do sport photography i don't think there is a reason to own a 5DM3 at this point. 

even with the compression issues the images that come out of Sony ff alpha cameras absolutely s#!t on anything you'll get out of any Canon camera. that goes double for the a7s in low light situations. as for the battery issue with sony, the batteries are smaller and lighter, as is the camera itself. just buy more damn batteries and stop crying like little girls. the sony UI is junk, i agree, but you get use to it eventually. 

some of you guys forget the most important thing, THE IMAGE QUALITY! and sony is winning in that department 

my favorite thing about the sony a7r is being able to use sony/zeiss 55mm 1.8 lens. that lens is just incredible. it's like a mini otus with autofocus. 

i still have my L glass, and while it's all working great with the metabones adapter, i hope that canon makes a proper 5D successor. as much as i DON'T miss my toaster sized 5DM3, i would like a proper focusing system and CF slots on my camera. if they can match or surpass sony's high ISO and DR performance, i'll gladly shell out the money for it.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 26, 2015)

solomonshv said:


> my favorite thing about the sony a7r...
> 
> if they can match or surpass sony's high ISO and DR performance,



If Canon merely matches the high ISO performance of your a7R, it will be because Canon made a sensor with _worse_ performance than it's predecessor. Current Canon FF sensors have better high ISO performance than your a7R.


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## martti (Jan 26, 2015)

People do get emotional when the adequacy of their decision making is being questioned.
This is a Canon forum and people who carry alien brands in their bags are considered apostates and they should be flamed. Not really, while it is funny how some people identify with the equipment they are using up to the point that they feel that their destiny is somehow connected to the success Canon is having in the mondial marketplace.
Canon is doing just fine, by the way. With its 8.5% growth in 2014 it beats the market. I could not care less.

I am now experimenting with the Sony a6000 and only yesterday managed to configure its controls exactly as I want them. It is really pretty cool as it is now. My experience with the Metabones adapter is mixed. Some EF lenses just do not work with it and the L series looks like...you might not believe this but they actually look like they'd belong to another series of cameras, intimidating the adolescent mirrorless slim body with their mere presence. True, the picture quality from the a6000 with L lenses is very good.

Of the Sony lenses I only have the 16-70mm Zeiss which in the APS-c world corresponds to the Canon FF kit zoom.
It is an OK lens, I could not with my casual shooting really tell the difference between the non-L Canon lenses and the Zeiss. The handling, of course, is totally from another world with ultra fast AF.

Now, looking at the Sony lenses available for the a6000, probably the 20mm pancake will be a part of my cycling outfit. Also, at 300 dollars, the Rokinon 12mm could make sense.
But could I justify the 55mm f/1.8 for an APS-c sensor at the crazy price they sell it? Not likely. Or the Poiuyt product line...my money just buys so much more value in for example the EF L 16-35 f/4 or the 70-200 mm f/4 zooms. Admittedly, the a6000 is a very well thought out piece of engineering. Will I keep it, time will tell.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 26, 2015)

martti said:


> People do get emotional when the adequacy of their decision making is being questioned.



People also get annoyed when others fail to grasp that what is critical to them may not be the most important factor for everyone.


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## Maiaibing (Jan 26, 2015)

martti said:


> Canon is doing just fine, by the way. With its 8.5% growth in 2014 it beats the market. I could not care less.



If you do not care - why do you write about it? If you write about it, don't confuse the numbers:
In October 2014 Canon - once again - warned the markets that they would not meet their target for DSLR sales and their revenue would suffer accordingly:
"Canon lowered its full-year forecast for sales of high-end single-lens reflex cameras to 6.5 million units from a previous forecast of 7 million."

Or you are maybe thinking Canon office equipment sales etc. are relevant on a photography forum?


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## martti (Jan 26, 2015)

maiaibing: _Or you are maybe thinking Canon office equipment sales etc. are relevant on a photography forum?
_

I do not sell cameras for living nor do I have any Canon shares in my portfolio so I do not really care about Canon's figures in 2014. 
Canon is relevant for Canon Rumors forum. 
Will there be better Canon cameras in the future, will Canon survive? The answer to both questions in the light of its business figure is "yes" because Canon take the fall in the DSLR sales because its other products are selling so well. 

How does the fall from 7.0 million to 6.5 million units sold affect your photography?
What is its relevance?


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## jdramirez (Jan 26, 2015)

The Other day I was looking through some old photos I took with my Canon xs... It wasn't anything special, but it was remarkable since I took the shots with a pretty bad lens... the shot was taken at f9 so that can solve many woes of a bad lens, but it reminds me that we spend do much time talking about gear... sensors... lenses... upgrades... brands... And much of it is not prohibitive to taking great photos... or at least decent ones. There will be better gear in ten years... But our photos today don't suffer because of a lack of technology, but rather a lack of imagination. 

But hey... if that bit of better dynamic range is holding you back, then that must be the issue.


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## martti (Jan 26, 2015)

you heretic!


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## pretorianstalker (Jan 26, 2015)

Ia there anything we know for sure at this moment? Any chances for 4k video in any of those camera variants? I was also wondering if there will be any problems with using lenses that worked ok with lover MP count like 70-200 (exactly 70-200 f2.8L IS USM II) - I've heard that lens resolution sometimes might be not enoug for a big MP count - is it possible in this case?


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## Niki (Jan 26, 2015)

bosshog7_2000 said:


> Maybe I'm in the minority here but I think Canon should call the new high MP full frame the 'EOS 3'. Forget about 5DS....just go with EOS 3. The film version hasn't been made since 2007 and the 'D' moniker is pointless as everyone already knows it's a digital camera.



and what about a FILM camera..? I'd use it professionally along with my other cameras


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## bmwzimmer (Jan 26, 2015)

pretorianstalker said:


> Ia there anything we know for sure at this moment? Any chances for 4k video in any of those camera variants? I was also wondering if there will be any problems with using lenses that worked ok with lover MP count like 70-200 (exactly 70-200 f2.8L IS USM II) - I've heard that lens resolution sometimes might be not enoug for a big MP count - is it possible in this case?



People don't like DXOmark but if you look at their data for the D610 vs. the D810 for the same lens, you will notice an increase. For example, the Nikon AF-S Nikkor 85mm f/1.4G resolves 21 perceivable pixels on a 24mp D610 sensor and 30mp on a 36mp D810 sensor. 
The Carl Zeiss Apo Planar T* Otus 85mm resolves 23/24 mp on the D610 and 35/36 mp on the D810 which is excellent. 
We don't know what the ceiling is but for sure the ceiling for the Otus is much higher in this particular scenario.


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## Machaon (Jan 26, 2015)

jdramirez said:


> ...our photos today don't suffer because of a lack of technology, but rather a lack of imagination.



+1 Spot on.


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## Skirball (Jan 26, 2015)

Machaon said:


> jdramirez said:
> 
> 
> > ...our photos today don't suffer because of a lack of technology, but rather a lack of imagination.
> ...



/Thread ?


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## DRR (Jan 26, 2015)

Niki said:


> bosshog7_2000 said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe I'm in the minority here but I think Canon should call the new high MP full frame the 'EOS 3'. Forget about 5DS....just go with EOS 3. The film version hasn't been made since 2007 and the 'D' moniker is pointless as everyone already knows it's a digital camera.
> ...



Just call it a Canon EOS 3D, anyone who is in the market for one will know it's a model number not a stereoscopic camera. The potential for confusion, among those who actually matter, is very low.


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## zim (Jan 26, 2015)

DRR said:


> Niki said:
> 
> 
> > bosshog7_2000 said:
> ...



Yes but how many times will you be asked if you need 3D glasses to go with it before you scream  ;D


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## dolina (Jan 26, 2015)

Canon's current full frame offerings were announced on the following dates.

Canon EOS-1D X
Announced Oct 18, 2011
Canon EOS 5D Mark III
Announced Mar 2, 2012
Canon EOS-1D C
Announced Apr 12, 2012
Canon EOS 6D
Announced Sep 17, 2012

Since then Nikon, Sony and Leica have announced these full frame cameras

*2012*
Nikon D4
Nikon D800E
Nikon D800
Leica M-Monochrom
Sony SLT-A99
Nikon D600
Leica M-E Typ 220
Leica M Typ 240
*2013*
Nikon D610
Sony Alpha 7
Sony Alpha 7R
Nikon Df
*2014*
Nikon D4s
Sony Alpha 7S
Nikon D810
Nikon D750
Leica M Edition 60
Sony Alpha 7 II

Mar 2, 2012 would mark the third year of 5D Mark III. It isn't that far fetch that 2015 will be the year of new full frame cameras for the 1, 5 and 6 Series.

I would be very surprise if it does not have built-in WiFi or NFC as the Sony Alpha 7 II & Nikon D750 have these features.

I hope the replacement without AA filter will have these connectivity features.


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## jdramirez (Jan 27, 2015)

As a quick issue... I really don't want yearly revisions to my bodies. I'm not an early adopter.. but if I were and I pay X for it... I'm ok with it depreciating some... afterall, in this scenario I'm an early adopter... but to couple early adopting depriciation with being outdated gear... that's not a pill I'm willing to swallow.


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## tron (Jan 27, 2015)

zim said:


> DRR said:
> 
> 
> > Niki said:
> ...


How about EOS 2D? It will sound rather flat but it will keep hopes high for a future 3D ;D


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## DominoDude (Jan 27, 2015)

If they release it in time for the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show, they could take the opportunity to rename the camera model entirely - they're running out of new numbers and can't slap an infinite number of "Mark *" on them. It would be suitable to release a DD camera. Perfect for those who shoot that event to lay their hands on a couple of double D's... 

Sincerely,
/Oh-yes-I'm-full-of-it-but-at-least-I'm-not-prejudiced


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## edknuff (Jan 27, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> <p>We’re told that the next EOS 5D will come in three different versions. Two of the cameras named “EOS 5Ds” would be the high megapixel cameras with a resolution of 53mp. One of the cameras would have an AA filter and other would not. We’ve heard this sort of thing before, <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2014/11/another-50mp-ff-dslr-mention-cr2/" target="_blank">except the language used previously was one camera would have a low pass filter, and the other would not.</a> I do like the naming “EOS 5Ds”, as that may finally put to rest the “EOS 3D” moniker which has been around longer than this site has. There is also precedent on the “S” naming from the days of the “EOS-1D” and “EOS-1DS”.</p>
> <p>The third camera would be an EOS 5D Mark IV, which would continue on the path of a lower megapixel event, sports, wildlife focused full frame camera. If this is true, I don’t believe all 3 cameras would come at the same time.</p>
> <p>For the time being, there are no plans for a high resolution EOS-1 body style. However, expect the build quality of any 5D replacement to be top notch.</p>
> <p>Personally, if they don’t make a high resolution EOS-1D style body, I do hope that a “5Ds” has the top plate of an EOS-1D.</p>
> ...



For me, I don't necessarily see a higher MP camera as necessary, unless Canon produces a sensor with a considerably higher DR.

I'd love to read your and others' thoughts on this...


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## Bob Howland (Jan 27, 2015)

dilbert said:


> DominoDude said:
> 
> 
> > If they release it in time for the Victoria's Secret Fashion Show, they could take the opportunity to rename the camera model entirely - they're running out of new numbers and can't slap an infinite number of "Mark *" on them. It would be suitable to release a DD camera. Perfect for those who shoot that event to lay their hands on a couple of double D's...
> ...



From what I've heard, a lot of fashion photographers are gay. The models don't like constantly being hit on by the assistants, so the assistants who are hired tend to be gay. Experienced fashion photographic assistants are more likely to become fashion photographers.

The photographer who told me this, who is gay and an occasional fashion photographer, referred to fashion models as "professional teases".


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## DominoDude (Jan 27, 2015)

Bob Howland said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > DominoDude said:
> ...



*nods* @Bob - That sounds likely, and wouldn't surprise me.


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## martti (Jan 27, 2015)

As I've understood, many artists and art collectors are gay as well as many cuisine chefs.
I still hope that a gay or a lesbian photographer would be famous because of the pictures she/he takes and makes rather than for his/her sexual orientation.

Michelangelo was gay. Is that why mr. Buonarroti is considered a genius or woud it have something to do with his painting, scultpures and architecture?


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## westr70 (Jan 27, 2015)

GMCPhotographics said:


> personally...my 5DIII's are doing a great job. A 5D4 needs some killer features for me to consider upgrading. Which at the moment, I don't have an obvious need.



+1 Same here.


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## rrcphoto (Jan 27, 2015)

dolina said:


> Canon's current full frame offerings were announced on the following dates.
> 
> Canon EOS-1D X
> Announced Oct 18, 2011
> ...



technically alot of those in 2012 were released after the canon releases - for example the D4 was announced Jan 2012, the D800 and D800E was announced Feb 2012. Not to mention that the D810 and D610 were released because of floundering QA issues with the prior releases.

Canon already had a full frame camera with Wifi - they were actually first out the door with that.

are all canon Full frames up for renewal - yes. I suspect we'll see the 1 series followed by 5 and 6.

I do doubt we'll see wifi / nfc on the 1Dx or the 5d bodies though.


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