# What do you shoot with.



## Don Haines (Dec 3, 2016)

The question has been repeatedly asked as to what the typical CR member shoots with. What is the highest level of gear that you use regularly


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## Valvebounce (Dec 3, 2016)

Hi Don. 
A good idea for a poll, I think it might have been better to separate the X series bracket down in to Crop and FF categories, but limiting it to the highest level of gear used regularly stops people like me with more than one series of body from muddying the waters too much! 

Cheers, Graham.


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## AlanF (Dec 3, 2016)

Where are the top of the ranges 1DXII, 5DIV and 5DS(R)?


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## ajfotofilmagem (Dec 3, 2016)

AlanF said:


> Where are the top of the ranges 1DXII, 5DIV and 5DS(R)?


Understood are along with the other models 1D and 5D.


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## Don Haines (Dec 4, 2016)

AlanF said:


> Where are the top of the ranges 1DXII, 5DIV and 5DS(R)?


They are all part of X series. Rather than break things down to every model, it's just broad ranges.


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## Zeidora (Dec 4, 2016)

Many of us shoot with more than one body or even system. A multi-option poll might be more interesting. I assume most take some pictures with a phone, some may have MF, some M4/3, some LF, some specialty cameras (panorama, microscope, IR/UV/full-spectrum).

I shoot with 5DsR, 5D2 full spectrum, 4x5" ArcaSwiss, microscope camera (Zeiss Axiocam HRc), SEM (Zeiss EVO 40XVP).
On Canon bodies, mostly Zeiss lenses, a few Canon, one Nikon (EL 80/5.6), all primes, not one zoom.


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## Don Haines (Dec 4, 2016)

Zeidora said:


> Many of us shoot with more than one body or even system. A multi-option poll might be more interesting. I assume most take some pictures with a phone, some may have MF, some M4/3, some LF, some specialty cameras (panorama, microscope, IR/UV/full-spectrum).
> 
> I shoot with 5DsR, 5D2 full spectrum, 4x5" ArcaSwiss, microscope camera (Zeiss Axiocam HRc), SEM (Zeiss EVO 40XVP).
> On Canon bodies, mostly Zeiss lenses, a few Canon, one Nikon (EL 80/5.6), all primes, not one zoom.


Quite true, but I was trying to keep the poll limited to just Canon gear and broad categories.

BTW, I shoot with Canon DSLRs, Nikon superzoom, Olympus P/S, and GoPro action cameras. I think that many of us cross boundaries


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## jhpeterson (Dec 4, 2016)

1DS III and 1DX for all my serious shooting. For the last few years my "play" camera has been the 1D Mk III. Sold my last one two weeks ago and might have to try something new.


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## Hillsilly (Dec 4, 2016)

I use a 1Ds Mkii with L lenses (when I'm not using an Eos 3). I chose the bottom option, but it's probably not fair to batch my camera with the current 1Dx.


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## c.d.embrey (Dec 4, 2016)

My primary digital camera is a 40D with either a EF-S 10-22mm or an EF 85mm f/1.8.

My secondary digital camera is a 5D3. I only use it with a EF 90mm f/2.8 T&S L lens.

My film camera is a Elan 7n used with a an EF 50mm f/1.8 Mk2.

I need a crop/Super35mm 4K camera. Canon doesn't make one!! Why no 7DX 4k or a M5X with 4K video?? So do I buy another Sony Super35 or a M4/3 with 4K video??


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## Hillsilly (Dec 4, 2016)

I've got an Elan 7E, too. It was my main 35mm film camera until I picked up the Eos 3 a few years ago. On behalf of all of the Elan 7 owners out there, I must say that I'm outraged by the current trend of cutting them in half and posting the results on Youtube.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssFlCSb_wLs


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## beforeEos Camaras (Dec 4, 2016)

wow this shows most of us are of the high end use here I started with film fd mounts used them for years then a short use of Sony point and shoots till I crossed over back to canon with the ti1 rebel 2009 to 2014 70D and the 5dmk3 2016 it all been good


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## JMZawodny (Dec 4, 2016)

With 88% of the respondents in one group, perhaps a follow-on poll is in order. Since this category has a very wide range of camera bodies used, we should call out 1Dx2, other 1D, New 5D (IV, DS), older 5D, 7D2, and 7D.


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## LDS (Dec 4, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> The question has been repeatedly asked as to what the typical CR member shoots with. What is the highest level of gear that you use regularly



Just remember in Europe, and probably elsewhere, the "Rebel" line is an XXX or XXXX one (i.e. 1300D or 750D), maybe not everybody knows it.


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## JPAZ (Dec 4, 2016)

Given the high degree of knowledge in posts on these forum threads (at least the posts except for mine), I am not surprised by the results. I do not, by any means, want to imply that everyone here is not knowledgeable and informative. But, I've learned a lot by reading threads here in CR and there is likely a correlation between photography knowledge and sophistication of equipment used (although I know folks who create incredible images with smart-phones). A subsequent poll with a breakdown in the category might be interesting (5Dxx vs 1Dxx vs etc) and I think there will be some evolution in the results over time. For example, I am using the M3 much more than I would have anticipated even a few months ago although I cannot see it ever replacing my FF kit in amount of use. But this might change.......

JPAZ


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## Jopa (Dec 10, 2016)

I would love to try the M5 one day when Canon makes a 50 f/1.8 for it.


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## Antono Refa (Dec 10, 2016)

Poll options aren't thorough. I have a 5D with L lenses, but some of the time I shoot with a P&S, a smartphone, and a .50 cal.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Dec 10, 2016)

Antono Refa said:


> Poll options aren't thorough. I have a 5D with L lenses, but some of the time I shoot with a P&S, a smartphone, and a .50 cal.


Like this?





I never understand how some countries speak of "shoot" and "photograph" as if they were the same thing.


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## Valvebounce (Dec 10, 2016)

Hi ajfotofilmagem. 
Good question. 
Possibly due to a number of similarities, 
both can be used on a target, 
both can be used to spray and pray, 
both have a tendency to miss if you stab or jerk the release rather than squeeze,
both have barrels, some interchangeable some fixed, 
both have optics (ok one it's vital the other works without them )
;D ;D ;D

Ok more likely it is derived (bastardised) from the modelling world (and perhaps other genres) doing a photo shoot? ???
Personally I hope never to be shot with anything other than a camera, and I'm not keen on that, that is one reason I'm usually behind it not in front! 

Cheers, Graham. 



ajfotofilmagem said:


> Antono Refa said:
> 
> 
> > Poll options aren't thorough. I have a 5D with L lenses, but some of the time I shoot with a P&S, a smartphone, and a .50 cal.
> ...


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## Antono Refa (Dec 10, 2016)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> Antono Refa said:
> 
> 
> > Poll options aren't thorough. I have a 5D with L lenses, but some of the time I shoot with a P&S, a smartphone, and a .50 cal.
> ...



Yes. I love the remote, detached, clinical results. Up close and personal with a knife is so messy.


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## Don Haines (Dec 10, 2016)

The idea was to see how representative the forum members are of the general camera buying public. The blue is the general public, the red is us. I think the results show that we do not accurately represent the general public, despite claims to the contrary by several forum members.


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## ethanz (Dec 10, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> The idea was to see how representative the forum members are of the general camera buying public. The blue is the general public, the red is us. I think the results show that we do not accurately represent the general public, despite claims to the contrary by several forum members.


But the public wants a 5D with the specs of a 1D and the price of a 6D! With no mirror. 

Make another thread/poll with the XD series broken down more. Please Don


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## Maximilian (Dec 10, 2016)

maaaaan... 
looking at the results (88% of 100 votes for "X ... with ... L") this forum is so heavily off mainstream, 
that you could call it 88%+ off mainstream from related to marketing and everything else. 

That means all attempts of anybody trying to convince Canon to follow the opinion of this forum (AvTvM, etc. ???) is so ... 

IRRATIONAL

that this should be an argument by itself - except to the ones that still belive this forum can change the (photog) world.


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## Diko (Dec 10, 2016)

Maximilian said:


> maaaaan...
> looking at the results (88% of 100 votes for "X ... with ... L") this forum is so heavily off mainstream,
> that you could call it 88%+ off mainstream from related to marketing and everything else.
> 
> ...



This is the forum's mainstream. 

Would you imagine 2 have a configuration of at least 5 grants (usually more 10x 2 Canon's "generous" price tagging and milking) and not being part of this small community? Here you can always hear a healthy discussion and the neuro mockering. It's fresh and innovative. 

Would you trust some well supported review (like the one we saw Canon producing, which reminds me that someone should let Canon know that their PR and Marketing departments urgently need a refresh introductory course in each oné's respective field). 

Or you would you prefer to believe that shop assistants who's only purpose is to sell you what is staying for too long and nobody wants to buy? 

The most important links I know I've learnt here. And my few dollars went in the right direction and not for some nonsense. ;-)


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## KeithBreazeal (Dec 11, 2016)

AR-15, Caldwell Lead-Sled, and Shooting Table © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal, on Flickr


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## ethanz (Dec 11, 2016)

That is a beauty Keith


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## Hillsilly (Dec 11, 2016)

Maximilian said:


> ...That means all attempts of anybody trying to convince Canon to follow the opinion of this forum (AvTvM, etc. ???) is so ...
> 
> IRRATIONAL



I'm sure Canon would have absolutely no interest in hearing the opinion of people who spend $6k on camera bodies and buy the $10k+ lenses. It would be way better if the direction of their higher end gear is dictated by surveys of first time DSLR buyers.


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## tpatana (Dec 11, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> The idea was to see how representative the forum members are of the general camera buying public. The blue is the general public, the red is us. I think the results show that we do not accurately represent the general public, despite claims to the contrary by several forum members.



I work for xbox. Some time ago we had presentation by some data statistics team, trying to teach us what is typical gamer.

One of the takeaway from the meeting was that us (xbox team) is very very far away in any metrics compared to actual general public, and whatever we think is typical gamer/gaming, is most likely incorrect as we're so far biased.

Then he showed some graphs. They were pretty much like the one you showed for cameras. (naturally I can't tell details on our graphs, but I was very surprised with those. I always though I was typical average gamer)


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## dak723 (Dec 12, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> The idea was to see how representative the forum members are of the general camera buying public. The blue is the general public, the red is us. I think the results show that we do not accurately represent the general public, despite claims to the contrary by several forum members.



Thank you for this poll! Pretty much the only reason I continue to visit this forum is that I am not one of the 88%. So when a newbie posts and asks, "I'm looking for my first DSLR, what do you recommend?" someone can tell them that a Rebel with kit lens will be absolutely fine, rather than recommend about $8,000 worth of expert gear! The folks on this forum are similar to the audiophiles of the early days of stereo. They had to have the most expensive audio equipment and the $5,000 speakers while most of us were happy with our $500 systems that sounded pretty much the same. Of course, the audiophiles wouldn't think so, but they weren't really listening to the music - they were listening to the exact sound of deepest bass note. Just like many hear don't really look at photographs but rather are pixel peeping for noise and measuring DR.


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## Don Haines (Dec 12, 2016)

dak723 said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > The idea was to see how representative the forum members are of the general camera buying public. The blue is the general public, the red is us. I think the results show that we do not accurately represent the general public, despite claims to the contrary by several forum members.
> ...


I was talking to friend yesterday about cameras, and he was trying to decide between a 7D2 and an 80D..... My comment was that I got my 7D2 for two reasons.... the wicked level of sealing, and the AF system. My recommendation was that unless you really need those two features, that the 80D would be a better camera.

It's sort of like buying a car that can do 200, or buying a car that can do 250, when the fastest you can go is 110.... advanced features are a waste of money if you don't use them.


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## Focus Studio (Dec 12, 2016)

The most I use, for a few months, now, is 1DX II with 70-200 L II IS and 24-70 L II and 5D III with 16-35 L II, the 6D being demoted as a back-up, with 35/2 IS.


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## joe_r (Dec 12, 2016)

I have a 6D and the old 24-105L, but that's my only L lens. I have the cheap 50mm and 70-300 lenses, the Sigma 105 macro, and Rokinon 14mm. My kit is pretty sparse compared to most here.


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## LDS (Dec 12, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> I think the results show that we do not accurately represent the general public, despite claims to the contrary by several forum members.



Which is no surprise, being a gear-oriented forum - if it was only image-oriented, results would have been different, and there would be also a difference between hobbyists and pros within the "general public".

And also because nor most of the general public nor pros spend time on forums  Of course building a representative sample couldn't be done just setting up a site and using those who then access it voluntarily, as pollsters learnt the hard way with many of the recent elections, results are of course skewed.

But it looks we represent not a small source of revenues for Canon most expensive "toys"....


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 12, 2016)

LDS said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > I think the results show that we do not accurately represent the general public, despite claims to the contrary by several forum members.
> ...



No surprise to most of us...



AvTvM said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > We do not represent the typical customer and we are not representative of the bulk of sales.
> ...


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## Maximilian (Dec 13, 2016)

Hillsilly said:


> Maximilian said:
> 
> 
> > ...That means all attempts of anybody trying to convince Canon to follow the opinion of this forum (AvTvM, etc. ???) is so ...
> ...


Hi Hillsilly!

I am quite sure that Canon has their way to do their surveys on high end gear and that IS NOT this forum, 
but their program of professionals that also do the testing of prototypes etc.

But surely you know better as you are closely related to the Canon R&D, aren't you?


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## Maximilian (Dec 13, 2016)

Diko said:


> Maximilian said:
> 
> 
> > maaaaan...
> ...


Hi Diko! 

I thought that my post would be understood as kinda fun. Doesn't seem so although I used emoticons as well. 

And don't get me wrong. All you've said about this forum is true. 
Well experienced people give good advice and are really helpful. 
And I also believe that they are having good opinions on what would be good to develop/release next. 
And I love it. Otherwise I wouldn't participate. I've seen too many forums since 1998 that were destroyed by trolls.

But...

Canon is surely making profit not so much in the professional market but in the consumer market, where people buy xxxD/Rebels or xxD and just sometimes one lens more than the double zoom kit. 
I know those people because those are represented by friends that ask me for advice on gear but don't want to spend more than 500-1.000 €.They are the majority of those still investing in ILC.

And as I stated to Hillsilly above Canon has a better way (at least in their opinion) to do their surveys on high end gear than this forum. So although meant as fun post, the truth is not so far away, IMO.


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## Zv (Dec 13, 2016)

I like having a forum that's gear heavy and full of folks who know how to use it and give really good advice. Where would I go to get my next L lens recommendations from? 

Also if I have an issue with my 6D and L lenses I know I can rely on you guys to help me out. This poll is reassuring! 

I think CR forum actually made me more careful when buying gear. I tend to consider things a lot more before purchasing. My GAS actually decreased this year!


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## AcutancePhotography (Dec 13, 2016)

Hillsilly said:


> I'm sure Canon would have absolutely no interest in hearing the opinion of people who spend $6k on camera bodies and buy the $10k+ lenses. It would be way better if the direction of their higher end gear is dictated by surveys of first time DSLR buyers.



I am sure there is some interest. I doubt that anyone is claiming that Canon will design their top level systems based on first time buyers. But it would be important to find out what product lines give Canon a reliable and sustainable income. That is where Canon will be paying more attention. I doubt if Canon can stay in business if they only concentrated on their top of the line products and neglected other products. 

Canon, like most successful companies, is probably looking all along their product lines, figuring out where to invest their efforts (money and labour) in the context of reliable and sustainable income. 

I am sure that Canon, and other camera manufacturers understand the brand commitment concerning camera bodies and lenses. Once you buy a Canon body, you are most likely going to buy Canon compatible lenses and if you have an investment in Canon compatible lenses, your are more likely to buy a Canon body. And the circle of profit continues. ;D Therefore it is in Canon's best interest to attract the first time DSLR/MICL.

There are simularities between camera manufacturers and Drug Trafficking Organizations. ;D ;D


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## Zv (Dec 13, 2016)

My image of the typical rebel user is someone who takes about 3 pictures a month with it. Two of which are accidental pictures of the lens cap. I've met some people like that. They always just end up taking pics (mostly selfies) with their phone and the rebel (or other brand equivalent) just gathers dust or they sell it. It's not about photography for them it's more like a checklist item, gotta have a "big camera" but not really sure why. 

When I bought my first DSLR I used the shit out of it. That kit lens took some amount of abuse in various countries before I even bought a 2nd lens, which was a thrifty 50. It was never about gear but somehow that changed. I kinda miss the old days! 

But nah, you can pry my 6D and L lenses from my cold dead hands! Sold enough images to justify having a nice kit. Bloody earned it. Not guilty at all! Happy to be part of the 88%! ;D


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## Boyer U. Klum-Cey (Dec 13, 2016)

I propose that the Forum become an anarcho-syndicalist commune. Where, we take
turns to act as a sort of executive officer for the month.
But, all the decisions of that officer shall have to be ratified
at a special bi-monthly posting/poll, by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,
and by a two-thirds majority, in the case of more external stuff.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 13, 2016)

Boyer U. Klum-Cey said:


> But, all the decisions of that officer shall have to be ratified
> at a special bi-monthly posting/poll, by a simple majority in the case of purely internal affairs,
> and by a two-thirds majority, in the case of more external stuff.



Wow, that sounds like a really impractical, unworkable idea. I can't imagine anyone putting such a system in place.


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## Pookie (Dec 13, 2016)

What gear do you shoot with... hardly Canon anymore but I shot with Canon for years and still use them in my business (Wedding, portraiture and commercial).

Canon (1DX, numerous 5D3's) most every L between 14mm-200 f/2 no Superteles.

Pentax 645Z, FujiFilm X100S, Mamyia 7 II, Mamiya RZ67 Pro II, Polaroid 600SE, Leica (M3,M5,M6, M-P 240, M-P 240 Safari), Hasselblad 503CW... 

Just pre-ordered a FujiFilm GFX 50S and if this turns out like I hope... I will move almost completely to analog and MF digital for both business and personal work.


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## Act444 (Dec 13, 2016)

> My image of the typical rebel user is someone who takes about 3 pictures a month with it. Two of which are accidental pictures of the lens cap. I've met some people like that. They always just end up taking pics (mostly selfies) with their phone and the rebel (or other brand equivalent) just gathers dust or they sell it. It's not about photography for them it's more like a checklist item, gotta have a "big camera" but not really sure why.



When I started off with a Rebel T2i 7 years ago, I had no idea I'd be where am at now. But I knew I was serious about photography then which is why I made the investment in the first place. Otherwise my Elph was much smaller and pocketable and got me the shots I needed...

But I'm noticing that oddly enough, even though I use the DSLR, I find myself handing people my phone whenever I want to get in the shot...instead of bringing the M for that purpose, even with the far better quality...I dunno, I guess I find it easier...and I'm already carrying a lot (and in my experience, offering the DSLR scares folks away more often than anything  and even among those that do take it, 90% mess it up anyway)


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## Deleted member 91053 (Dec 13, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Boyer U. Klum-Cey said:
> 
> 
> > But, all the decisions of that officer shall have to be ratified
> ...



For clarification please refer to:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JvKIWjnEPNY

About 1 minute 15 seconds in. 8)


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## Zv (Dec 14, 2016)

Act444 said:


> > My image of the typical rebel user is someone who takes about 3 pictures a month with it. Two of which are accidental pictures of the lens cap. I've met some people like that. They always just end up taking pics (mostly selfies) with their phone and the rebel (or other brand equivalent) just gathers dust or they sell it. It's not about photography for them it's more like a checklist item, gotta have a "big camera" but not really sure why.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Oh I totally do that too. With my DSLR round my neck or on my BR strap I'll pass my phone (or my partners phone) over to randoms to get the obligatory "We were here" shot for the scrapbook. I get weird looks and comments but it's just easier than trying to get them to use your DSLR even with green box mode (which is why I think this mode is still available on high end bodies!). Mainly I do this because I don't like other people touching my 6D! 

If I'm shooting with my M I usually hand that over as it seems more "conventional" in it's use and less intimidating.


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## hbr (Dec 14, 2016)

I currently am using two bodies, the 6D and the 7D Mk II. I sold my T5i and gave away my XSI. On the 6D I use my two sharpest lenses which are the 24-70L f/2.8 II and the 70-200L f/2.8 USM. On the 7D Mk II I mostly use my 400L f/5.6.
I also have the EFS-17-55 IS f/2.8 and a several primes mostly f/2.8. Of course I have the "nifty fifty."
Although I would love to have IS on most of my lenses I could not afford it, but I have a quite steady hand and for slower shots I use a tripod.


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## arbitrage (Dec 14, 2016)

I've always noted that these forums have a high degree of top end gear users. The only other forum that rivals this one for that demographic is Fred Miranda. 

Just saw this thread and voted to see the results...wow...that is highly towards the extreme gear end!!

My gear is below in my sig.


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## Ryananthony (Dec 14, 2016)

arbitrage said:


> I've always noted that these forums have a high degree of top end gear users. The only other forum that rivals this one for that demographic is Fred Miranda.
> 
> Just saw this thread and voted to see the results...wow...that is highly towards the extreme gear end!!



I don't think this forum has a high degree of top end gear users. 
How many names on this forum do you recognize from day to day conversations? Maybe 100? roughly 150 people voted, this forum has something like 12000 members. Even if half of those members were 1 time visiters, and never return, that's still 6000 people who are not represented. 

I think it's only the top posters who are high end users. What ever reason that is, I don't know. But like how this forums posts of wants and needs, do not represent canons market, I don't think this poll represents the forum members gear.


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## Hillsilly (Dec 14, 2016)

Maximilian said:


> But surely you know better as you are closely related to the Canon R&D, aren't you?


Maybe I'm not closely related, which is why they don't implement my ideas. Or maybe I am closely related and they've decided that the best business decision is to do the exact opposite to what I say (...which _might_ be a smart thing). Either way, by not making what I want, I haven't actively shot Canon for over two years and its been two to three years since I've bought a Canon product.

If it was just me, you could put that down as an anomaly. But I can't help but notice that a very high percentage of the people picking up Sony, Fuji, Olympus etc cameras are photography enthusiasts who seem disappointed with the choices Canon and Nikon are making. Whoever Canon is listening to seems to have lost them a few customers over the last three years.


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## Maximilian (Dec 14, 2016)

Hillsilly said:


> Maximilian said:
> 
> 
> > But surely you know better as you are closely related to the Canon R&D, aren't you?
> ...


*lol* Smart comment. Thank you, you made my day (honestly).



> Either way, by not making what I want, I haven't actively shot Canon for over two years and its been two to three years since I've bought a Canon product.
> 
> If it was just me, you could put that down as an anomaly. But I can't help but notice that a very high percentage of the people picking up Sony, Fuji, Olympus etc cameras are photography enthusiasts who seem disappointed with the choices Canon and Nikon are making. Whoever Canon is listening to seems to have lost them a few customers over the last three years.


I understand what you say. In my surroundings (photogs in Germany) it was always mixed up with choices. 
But the (real) enthusiasts still prefer CaNikon, except for those wanting something really small with all it's compromises.

And though I believe that it would be really nice to have what you and/or AvTvM and/or others want to have, I am sure, that Canon would make such products, if they would see a market for them. And if there really is a market then they seem to have technical issues (for reliabiity) why they didn't implement them yet.

I believe (and saw some numbers) that the general hype of digital photog market is over. 
And I don't believe that hundreds *oF* thousands are just waiting for "the new thing". 
I believe there are just hundreds *oR* thousands. Not more. And that makes the calculation for the price much worse.
Right now a lot of people using pictures in social media and of course prefer cellphones because the connectivity is much better and IQ is good enough. And those will never come back to a P&S or ILC, no matter how they'll improve. 
And worse (for the camera makers) the P&S market almost vanished because of those good IQ cellphones.
The rest of the market has now settled to a level again as it was in the 90ies and 80ies, where the people interested in higher IQ (not necessarily enthusiasts) are in a general minority.
I only know a few people taking a ILC system on vacation, or to a zoo or on hiking. 
For most a P&S - now replaced by a cell - is just enough. (And includes MP3, phone, WWW, etc.)


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## hbr (Dec 14, 2016)

I'm not seeing all the doom and gloom in the camera market that so many people are bemoaning. I think we are seeing a maturing market and shifting trends. It may take the manufacturers a while to understand and capitalize on the trends, but eventually they will. Canon's bread and butter is still the Rebel line and over the holidays will sell millions of them. Exchange rates, people's disposable incomes and many other factors all contribute to the soft market right now. 
Yes, the smart phone put a dent into the p/s market simply due to the convenience and decent quality of the photographs, but it is not an either/or proposition. I own a smart phone and sometimes I want the convenience of sharing a low rez photo on social media or having the smart phone handy in my pocket so as not to miss a shot when I am not carrying my other cameras, I still own over $10,000 worth of camera equipment. In the parks etc. I do see many people using their cell phone cameras to take pictures especially of themselves or their friends to post to social media, I still see many others using ILC cameras.
The smart phone still has many limitations. While it is great for selfies you will not get decent pictures of say, a swan in the lake at 100 yards away or a bird in flight.
I have purchased a couple of nice point and shoot cameras, (over $600 each), but I have always found them too inconvenient to use.
Also from what I am reading, although the market is very soft right now, Canon is actually gaining market share right now over its competition.


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## Hector1970 (Dec 14, 2016)

I think the high end users are very important to Canon.
People often buy rebels because they see serious photographers using camera gear but don't want a huge outlay.
I'd be in the club photography circle and that's dominated by Canon and Nikon. Nikon is surprisingly well represented. I'd guess in a typical club in the U.K. Or Ireland it's about 59% Canon 39% Nikon and about 2% others as their main cameras. For back ups more and more have some sort of high quality MILC/Compact. (These are just rough estimates - it's rare to find a Sony Full Frame in use but a lot people give it consideration - it's just so expensive to start again with lens).


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 14, 2016)

Hillsilly said:


> But I can't help but notice that a very high percentage of the people picking up Sony, Fuji, Olympus etc cameras are photography enthusiasts who seem disappointed with the choices Canon and Nikon are making. Whoever Canon is listening to seems to have lost them a few customers over the last three years.



I guess you also can't help but notice that the sun rises in the west, and you can't help but notice that when you let go of an apple in midair, it falls upwards. Since Canon has been gaining market share (more than Nikon has lost), it seems you have a penchant noticing things that fly in the face of factual reality. 

Sure, some people are dissatisfied with Canon or Nikon and switch, just as others are dissatisfied with Sony, Olympus or Fuji and switch. Point being, in the net Canon has gained more customers than they've lost.


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## Old Sarge (Dec 14, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Hillsilly said:
> 
> 
> > But I can't help but notice that a very high percentage of the people picking up Sony, Fuji, Olympus etc cameras are photography enthusiasts who seem disappointed with the choices Canon and Nikon are making. Whoever Canon is listening to seems to have lost them a few customers over the last three years.
> ...



And some people don't switch because they are dissatisfied with Canon or Nikon, they just want to try something new. Learning curves can be a pain but they can also be exciting. I would probably be among this number if I were wealthy. But my Canon equipment would always come first. And I realize that a different system isn't going to make me a different photographer....B&H still doesn't sell a good eye.


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## JPAZ (Dec 17, 2016)

Interesting comments. I don't think we can discount the "high end" or the "low end" shooters in this market. I do take photos with a smartphone (convenience and size may offset the limitations of these devices) in situations where I don't carry my kit. But like many here, I reach for my stuff when photography is part of the goal of whatever I am doing. 

There is some benefit to Canon that is hard to measure (unless their marketing gurus have a way) and that is the logo on their bodies and straps. Inn the advertising world, there is a concept called "impressions" that is important. Drive past a billboard? You might not realize it but the ad has some effect on us. That banner ad here on CR? Even though it might be for a product that is nowhere on our personal radar, it too has an effect. When walking around, folks see the Canon (or Nikon, Fuji, Olympus, Sony) logo and it has some effect. And, for photographers with any knowledge of the products out there, seeing a "big white" across the room registers the same as a logo.

Just back from a trip where multiple folks approached me to say something like, "nice camera" (usually when carrying the 5Diii with the 24-70 f/2.8 ii over my shoulder - no branded strap) and someday, some of them might buy a camera. This could be a Rebel or a P&S, but the influence of these "impressions" will affect their purchasing choice. IMHO, although we think we have a well thought out reason for purchasing a particular brand (in my case back in antiquity that first Canon DSLR purchase felt better in my hands than the equivalent Nikon), one cannot minimize the effect of brand name exposure and there are a lot of Canon shooters out there.


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## hbr (Dec 17, 2016)

JPAZ said:


> Interesting comments. I don't think we can discount the "high end" or the "low end" shooters in this market. I do take photos with a smartphone (convenience and size may offset the limitations of these devices) in situations where I don't carry my kit. But like many here, I reach for my stuff when photography is part of the goal of whatever I am doing.
> 
> There is some benefit to Canon that is hard to measure (unless their marketing gurus have a way) and that is the logo on their bodies and straps. Inn the advertising world, there is a concept called "impressions" that is important. Drive past a billboard? You might not realize it but the ad has some effect on us. That banner ad here on CR? Even though it might be for a product that is nowhere on our personal radar, it too has an effect. When walking around, folks see the Canon (or Nikon, Fuji, Olympus, Sony) logo and it has some effect. And, for photographers with any knowledge of the products out there, seeing a "big white" across the room registers the same as a logo.
> 
> Just back from a trip where multiple folks approached me to say something like, "nice camera" (usually when carrying the 5Diii with the 24-70 f/2.8 ii over my shoulder - no branded strap) and someday, some of them might buy a camera. This could be a Rebel or a P&S, but the influence of these "impressions" will affect their purchasing choice. IMHO, although we think we have a well thought out reason for purchasing a particular brand (in my case back in antiquity that first Canon DSLR purchase felt better in my hands than the equivalent Nikon), one cannot minimize the effect of brand name exposure and there are a lot of Canon shooters out there.



My sentiments exactly. Canon does sponsor the nature series on public television and I'm sure that brings them a lot of sales. Also on public tv is Art Wolfe and Doug Gardner which also use Canon products.

Near my home is a big shopping center with a very large pond in the center that is full of wildlife and the pond has a bridge in the middle for people to go from one side to the other. It is an ideal spot to photograph birds in flight. Usually I stand on the bridge with my 7D II and 400 f/5.6 white lens. Talk about standing out in a crowd, especially when I cut loose with a long string at 10 fps.. I also get so many people asking about my equipment. Since my passion is photography I often sit down with them and discuss the equipment and photography and show them some of the photos I just took. They are so impressed with the close-ups and the reach of the camera/lens. Then I often give them advice on how to start their gear accumulation.


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## Valvebounce (Dec 17, 2016)

Hi Hbr. 
Good on you, many people will not take the time to talk. Plus it is always fun to help others spend their money! 
My photo buddy and I went to a local camera and accessory show, we were both looking at mono pods, I kept telling him it is easier to seek forgiveness than ask permission, then I phoned my misses and asked permission to buy the Sirui cf monopod! : 8) 

Cheers, Graham. 



hbr said:


> JPAZ said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting comments. I don't think we can discount the "high end" or the "low end" shooters in this market. I do take photos with a smartphone (convenience and size may offset the limitations of these devices) in situations where I don't carry my kit. But like many here, I reach for my stuff when photography is part of the goal of whatever I am doing.
> ...


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## hbr (Dec 17, 2016)

I don't dare tell the wife how much I am spending on gear. That is why I keep our bank accounts separate.


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## unfocused (Dec 17, 2016)

hbr said:


> I don't dare tell the wife how much I am spending on gear. That is why I keep our bank accounts separate.



Separate accounts are the absolutely best way to assure marital bliss (Well, actually the second best way, but I digress). We split responsibilities for household expenses fairly (not evenly, but fairly) and what is her money is her money and what is mine is mine. I never question her purchases because they don't affect me and she doesn't question mine for the same reason.


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## joe_r (Dec 21, 2016)

unfocused said:


> Separate accounts are the absolutely best way to assure marital bliss (Well, actually the second best way, but I digress). We split responsibilities for household expenses fairly (not evenly, but fairly) and what is her money is her money and what is mine is mine. I never question her purchases because they don't affect me and she doesn't question mine for the same reason.



Haha, that is exactly the system my wife and I use. We have a spreadsheet where we log all of our household expenses and have a formula to calculate who has what share. Prevents lots of problems from happening.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 21, 2016)

unfocused said:


> hbr said:
> 
> 
> > I don't dare tell the wife how much I am spending on gear. That is why I keep our bank accounts separate.
> ...



Nah, just merge the funds. Community property and all that. If you've done proper estate planning you each have the other's power of attorney anyway, so nothing is private (except perhaps a wad of cash in your drawer at work) if your spouse wants to know. 

But hey, I may have it totally wrong...my wife and I have only been together for 31 years.


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## hbr (Dec 21, 2016)

Yeah, but doing it my way when she just has to have that new expensive purse, pair of shoes or jewelry, I keep my mouth shut. When I need a new lens or camera she still rolls her eyes and has something negative to say - she just can't do anything about it.


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## hbr (Dec 21, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > hbr said:
> ...



Been there, done that.


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## JPAZ (Dec 21, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Nah, just merge the funds. Community property and all that. If you've done proper estate planning you each have the other's power of attorney anyway, so nothing is private (except perhaps a wad of cash in your drawer at work) if your spouse wants to know.
> 
> But hey, I may have it totally wrong...my wife and I have only been together for 31 years.



36 years and counting for me 

Typical exchange in our household:
Me - "I am thinking about getting a [insert item like lens or tripod or whatever here] and it is expensive. But I can get it for [6 months same as cash or using the mail in rebate card or credit card rewards points or whatever]. Can we afford it?"
She - Either "I think so"and then I buy it or "But we need to fix the roof and that will cost....." so then I don't.

The answer is almost always the former and when we shouldn't spend the $, it is for a good reason. For this (and lots of other reasons) I am a very lucky guy.


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## tpatana (Dec 21, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > hbr said:
> ...



The Japanese way is quite clever. Husband salary is paid to two account. One is the home account, and another is "secret" private account. "Secret", as in every wife knows they have one. It's used for boys night out drinking and entertainment and such.

I'm not sure what's the typical ratio, maybe 80%/20% or 90%/10%.


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## greger (Dec 22, 2016)

I shoot with a 7D Mark 1. This replaced a 40D that went error 99. I had been watching the 7D since it first went on sale. The Mark 2 came out 2 years after I purchased my 7D in August 2012. I've changed my reply because I thought I was going off topic. My apologies to the OP.


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## jeffa4444 (Jan 5, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Hillsilly said:
> 
> 
> > But I can't help but notice that a very high percentage of the people picking up Sony, Fuji, Olympus etc cameras are photography enthusiasts who seem disappointed with the choices Canon and Nikon are making. Whoever Canon is listening to seems to have lost them a few customers over the last three years.
> ...



Ive used Canon since the AE-1 came out and its always been and remains my key brand. However sometimes on short break vacations I want to travel lighter but still have the benefit of inter-changeable lenses so I invested in Olympus m.4/3rd system and currently have three zooms & two bodies that cover the equivalent focal range of 18 - 600mm years ago. I can get the three zooms & one camera in a really small shoulder bag along with Lee Filters Seven5 filters & holder and whilst the results no way match FF Canon for vacations they are more than enough and stand up to A3 prints without falling apart. 
Canon has / did miss a miss a trick here for whilst I also own a G7X its not as good as the Olympus system which retains versatility. Sure my serious stuff is all FF Canon but options are good and a closed mind unhealthy.


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## mackguyver (Jan 5, 2017)

JPAZ said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Nah, just merge the funds. Community property and all that. If you've done proper estate planning you each have the other's power of attorney anyway, so nothing is private (except perhaps a wad of cash in your drawer at work) if your spouse wants to know.
> ...


Just a rookie here, 13 years, but I have been able to get the wife to buy in on the hobby... My exchanges:

Me: I really want to get this new lens (my personal obsession, it seems) so I can do this or that. But it's a lot of money - it's (price minus $1000 ). I should probably just spend it on (something really dull like tires).

Her: Well, I think you should get it.

Me: Really? Are you sure?

Her: Yeah, go for it!

 ;D  ;D  ;D


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 5, 2017)

jeffa4444 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Hillsilly said:
> ...



Indeed, it's very unhealthy to close your mind to objective reality. I hope you get over it.


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## jeffa4444 (Jan 6, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> jeffa4444 said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...





neuroanatomist said:


> jeffa4444 said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...


In my job "objective reality" has given me a healthy, profitable survival in business for 45 years including Canon & non-Canon products IF I had religiously stuck with "one brand" that outcome would be very different.


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## Ozarker (Jan 20, 2017)

This is one lopsided forum gear wise.


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## jayphotoworks (Feb 2, 2017)

Things got OT here, but I'd like to add here a different perspective:

I currently have 7 Canon L lenses, 2 EF Sigma ART lenses, a neck strap from a 1DX which most recently was setup on a Blackmagic Micro rig+rods and a Canon E1 side strap that currently sits around a Red DSMC side handle but I don't have a single Canon body or P&S. I haven't actually in a few years. I keep anticipating that Canon will release something that would allow those lenses to finally come home, but it hasn't happened yet so they keep renewing their travel visas sitting in front of Panasonic, Sony, Blackmagic and Red bodies!


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## mistaspeedy (Feb 2, 2017)

Would a 4K C100 mark III change things for you?


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