# Camera bag for camping



## EOS rebel (Jul 17, 2014)

Hi everyone,

I'm planning on going camping at the end of August and I'm starting to look at camera bags that would fit the bill. So I'd like to hear about your recommendations and experiences with camping and photography.

Requirements:
- max budget $300 CAD
- holds a tripod
- straps for sleeping pad/bag
- holds a APS-C camera with space for 10-22mm, 100mm L macro, 70-300mm L, and 430EX II flash
- compartment for other camping stuff (e.g. jacket and food)
- chest and/or waist straps

Bonus but not necessary:
- straps for tent
- rain cover
- pocket for hydration reservoir
- easy access to camera without taking off the bag completely (I like the idea of the Lowepro Flipside Sport but it doesn't work for camping)
- able to be used as airline carry-on

Stuff I've looked at so far: Lowepro Rover Pro and Vanguard Kinray

Thanks in advance for your advice.


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## stefsan (Jul 17, 2014)

You might want to have a look at F-Stop packs like the Tilopa BC (http://shop.fstopgear.com/us/products/mountain/backpacks/tilopa-bc.html#.U8d29VY_Hoo). They don't come cheap (about 130$ over your budget) but they really deliver in terms of quality and versatility. I use them for skiing and mountaineering, trekking and for camping.


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## stefsan (Jul 17, 2014)

One possible solution for not having to take off the backpack to get to your camera is a clip like Peak Design's Capture Pro (https://peakdesignltd.com/store/?c=clips). Works great if the weather is good 8)


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## ahsanford (Jul 17, 2014)

In general:

This may be a bit above your price range, but this Gura Gear bag is designed expressly for mixed cargo:
http://www.guragear.com/uinta/

The F-stop Mountain series is similar in its configurability and chambering of different types of items:
http://shop.fstopgear.com/us/products/mountain.html

It seems a small distinction to have separate compartments, but it lets the nasty dirty campy stuff stay in a separate chamber. 

But in specifics, the _type _of camping you are doing defines your answer. Car camping is not backcountry camping...

- A


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## stefsan (Jul 17, 2014)

ahsanford said:


> In general:
> 
> This may be a bit above your price range, but this Gura Gear bag is designed expressly for mixed cargo:
> http://www.guragear.com/uinta/
> ...



The Uinta looks good too but if you want to strap half a ton of additional gear to your pack and still be quite comfortable, I think there is nothing better than the F-Stop packs out there.


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## degies (Jul 17, 2014)

I have a few , but only use the Rover Pro from LowePro for camping 

http://degies.wordpress.com/2014/05/14/protecting-your-gear/
http://www.lowepro.com/rover-pro-aw

I updated my comment on this blog specifically for the Rover Pro. Just note the Rover pro is not really ideal for camping or hiking trips, but as photographer if you need to go for a longer hike or tramp for a few days it is a serious contender. It will take a small tent and a sleeping bag as well as your camera and tripod. 
Just my 2c


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## Logan (Jul 17, 2014)

you are much better off using a proper backpack and putting your camera gear in it. or strap a small camera back to your backpack. you will not have a good time trying to pack weight in a camera bag. i just put my lenses in their soft cases in the lid of my gregory pack, and hang my camera in a dry-sack (brooks bag) off a shoulder strap, or on a capture clip if its dry out.

you arent going to get a hiking backpack on as carryon


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## can0nfan2379 (Jul 17, 2014)

stefsan said:


> You might want to have a look at F-Stop packs like the Tilopa BC (http://shop.fstopgear.com/us/products/mountain/backpacks/tilopa-bc.html#.U8d29VY_Hoo). They don't come cheap (about 130$ over your budget) but they really deliver in terms of quality and versatility. I use them for skiing and mountaineering, trekking and for camping.



+1 I too have a Tilopa BC -- awesome bag!!! Most camera backpacks have lousy harnesses. The Tilopa has a great harness and wait for it......load lifter straps -- which pretty much every other camera back pack doesn't....


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## LarryC (Jul 17, 2014)

Logan said:


> you are much better off using a proper backpack and putting your camera gear in it. or strap a small camera back to your backpack. you will not have a good time trying to pack weight in a camera bag. i just put my lenses in their soft cases in the lid of my gregory pack, and hang my camera in a dry-sack (brooks bag) off a shoulder strap, or on a capture clip if its dry out.
> 
> you arent going to get a hiking backpack on as carryon



+1 If you're car camping or day hiking it really doesn't matter. If your backpacking, neoprene lens bags for storage in your pack is the way to go. I will often also strap a lowepro lens bag and a top loader to either waist strap of my Osprey, or put the top loader on my pack's chest harness. Tripod goes on the outside.


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## NancyP (Jul 17, 2014)

The problem with most camera-specific packs is the suspension. Suspension is poorly designed, or if well designed, is "one size fits all". F-Stop is a very well designed pack IF your body fits it. F-Stop bags are made for torso length 18" or so - sized for an average build man. They do not fit short-torsoed people even if you fiddle with the load lifters. The F-stop bags have the flexibility needed for carrying variable proportions of camera gear and camping gear. I mail-ordered the 62 liter Satori, and there's no question that the bag can accommodate a DSLR kit plus a long weekend of gear and food/water. I am an inexperienced pack camper, am short-torsoed, approximately 15" - 16", and didn't know about proper suspensions. I used the Satori on a camping trip, found it rode very well on the hips with a 35# load, but my shoulders hurt because the pack straps didn't distribute the load close enough to my upper back despite using the very ample range of adjustments on the pack. I have devised a home-made 2.5 " thick accessory shoulder pad for the Satori to hopefully solve this problem, and will test it under load soon. I hope it works. The access on the F-Stop packs is superb, with a U-shaped giant zipper panel on the foam back panel (actual frame is a wire skeleton instead of a framesheet). You put your pack down on its base or front, unzip back panel to expose the camera unit, unzip camera unit to get at the lenses etc.

There is one commercial (tiny business) photopack from www.photobackpacker.com that has adjustable torso, adjustable straps, a technical-style pack suspension system based on Granite Gear packs (excellent technical pack company), and it was made originally for ..... VIEW CAMERAS. There is now an insert for DSLRs. The foam padded camera and lens holders attach to a board so that the weight rides against the suspension board, and the front panel of the pack has wide zipper access. If I weren't trying to save my investment in the F-Stop pack, I would have bought this - I found out about this from large format users after I had bought the F-Stop pack. The owner is very responsive, and if you had a special need, he might be able to customize extra D rings, etc. Workmanship is excellent. Owner is a retired engineer and large format photographer.

The other option is to shop around for technical packs that have a way to easily access your camera gear. Most technical packs are top loaders, without significant access to the main compartment from side or front. A few packs have both top and front/side access. If I can't jury rig my existing F-Stop pack for long-hike heavy -load comfort, I may look at the few dual access packs out there and see if my F-Stop camera inserts work in them. Deuter and Granite Gear and possibly Gregory have some pack models of interest. 

The


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## dcm (Jul 17, 2014)

I use Gregory packs on the trail with my camera equipment (z30, z55) depending on amount of gear I'm carrying. It's much more comfortable, especially with the additional gear for a long day hike or overnight. Camera gear goes in appropriate hard/soft cases. Some packs have both top and side load. Placement depends on weight, heavier usually goes lower in the pack. There are good attachment points for carrying a camera on the front.

Pack suspensions vary depending on size/weight they are intended to carry. It's much better to use a larger pack that can handle the load than overloading a small pack and attaching things on the outside.


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## EOS rebel (Jul 17, 2014)

ahsanford said:


> In general:
> 
> This may be a bit above your price range, but this Gura Gear bag is designed expressly for mixed cargo:
> http://www.guragear.com/uinta/
> ...



Thanks for the suggestions. I want something that would be usable for backcountry camping and portaging in the future.

The F-stop bags look very nice, but with a large price tag too...



Logan said:


> you are much better off using a proper backpack and putting your camera gear in it. or strap a small camera back to your backpack. you will not have a good time trying to pack weight in a camera bag. i just put my lenses in their soft cases in the lid of my gregory pack, and hang my camera in a dry-sack (brooks bag) off a shoulder strap, or on a capture clip if its dry out.
> 
> you arent going to get a hiking backpack on as carryon



I already have a bag that I use for air travel, so not being able to use the bag as a carry-on is alright by me.


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## NancyP (Jul 17, 2014)

I forgot one thing - there are all sorts of foam inserts for conversion of ordinary large purses into camera bags. I am rooting around in my closet looking for a suitable purse to convert. Look on Amazon or eBay. These would serve well as a way to corral all the lenses together. Also, a fishing reel case may work, I found one at Cabela's, but it is the same size as my F/Stop Medium camera storage unit. However, it is one third the price of the F/Stop insert.


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## Eagle Eye (Jul 18, 2014)

I've found that camera bags just don't do backpacking very well. I settled on a Mountainsmith Kit Cube bag, available from B+H. It fits into small backpacks or full backcountry bags and will hold a camera and three lenses (one attached). It is independently water resistant and well padded (not overly padded). My advice is to get the Kit Cube and buy bags that are designed for your outdoor sport.


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## NancyP (Jul 18, 2014)

Thanks for the tip concerning Mountainsmith inserts. They have a nice small insert that would be just right for me.


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## dcm (Jul 18, 2014)

Thanks for the tip on camera inserts. In addition to MountainSmith I found "camera inserts" in various sizes from Timbuk2, Ape Case, and others. Looks like a nice way to keep your gear all together in one pouch you can lift out of the pack. 

In the past I've used some LowePro cases. When going ultralight I wrap equipment in my extra socks, puffy, sit/sleep pad, etc. which actually works pretty well - no extra weight. Guess I'll have to do some research before my next trip. Not sure I want to carry much extra weight.


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## NancyP (Jul 18, 2014)

Another approach, depending on the terrain, would be to carry a chest-mount camera with most-used lens (Cotton Carrier vest, which works just fine with backpacks, the mount does not interfere with the sternum strap) and for accessibility, put next most used lens in a lens case attached to the pack's Molle strapping or equivalent, and extra battery, card, etc in a pocket. Lens you know will be used least can be wrapped up in a cloth and stuffed in with the soft gear. Cotton Carrier vest is wonderful for DSLRs and I suppose for small cameras. The Cotton Carrier people also have a small-camera mount that attaches to your own pack's shoulder straps.


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## mustafaakarsu (Jul 18, 2014)

This is what I'm thinking to get, this one is expensive but there is a cheaper one in same brand. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1021054-REG/clik_elite_ce610bl_contrejour_40_camera_backpack.html


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## RustyTheGeek (Jul 18, 2014)

Logan said:


> you are much better off using a proper backpack and putting your camera gear in it. or strap a small camera back to your backpack. you will not have a good time trying to pack weight in a camera bag. i just put my lenses in their soft cases in the lid of my gregory pack, and hang my camera in a dry-sack (brooks bag) off a shoulder strap, or on a capture clip if its dry out.
> 
> you arent going to get a hiking backpack on as carryon



Big Ditto! In this case, it is hiking/camping FIRST PRIORITY, photography DISTANT SECOND. Keep yourself comfortable and safe first, then consider the photography.

This means buying everything for the camping first, especially the backpack. Hiking with the wrong or improper fitting pack is a huge mistake. DO NOT BUY A PHOTOGRAPHY PACK FOR CAMPING!!

I just finished a 70+ mile 10 day trek at Philmont Scout Ranch in New Mexico (2nd time). I used a Kelty RedCloud 90 backpack. Depending on Food and Water variables, I carried between 40 - 60 lbs on the trail and about 6 lbs of that was the camera gear. I carried a Canon SL1 with a Tamron 18-270 lens, a 10-22 EF-S lens and extra batteries. The extra lens was in a LowePro lens bag inside a dry bag inside my pack where ever it would fit. The camera hung flat against my chest from a custom made rig of super magnets and flex straps that were connected to my back pack shoulder straps. When I wasn't hiking, the camera simply hung from a climbing carbiner that hung from my belt at hip level. I also had a dry bag in case I needed to protect the camera but I never used it.

In other words, keep it simple. Don't try to take all your gear, just the essentials. Abundant water is more important weight to carry than camera gear.


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## RustyTheGeek (Jul 18, 2014)

mustafaakarsu said:


> This is what I'm thinking to get, this one is expensive but there is a cheaper one in same brand. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1021054-REG/clik_elite_ce610bl_contrejour_40_camera_backpack.html


What kind of trip are you taking? A 35 Liter pack isn't very big and it will be even smaller after you put in camera gear. A 35 liter pack is usually only big enough for warm weather weekend trips. Will you have to carry a tent, sleep gear, etc or are you just doing day hikes? I really hope you are already an experienced hiker/camper so you know what you're doing on the trail. Remember that back country pro photographers sometimes hire assistants to help them carry gear when necessary. Don't over do the gear carrying it by yourself!


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## NancyP (Jul 18, 2014)

Well, yes, water is #1 of the "10 essentials". ;D Especially when you are sweating it out like crazy. I have thought about getting a pack bladder for the extra water, but I have worried about the bladder breaking or leaking onto the camera equipment. I like at least one bottle on a carabinier hanging off my belt - very easy to get at, and I remember to drink whether I think I need it or not.

Concerning size of pack, 60 L, plus a bear canister hanging off the pack or under a floating lid, seems about right volume-wise for long weekend trips.

At least one pro photographer, granted, a large format photographer, uses llamas as pack animals, and the recent Backpacker magazine had a funny article about goats as pack animals. (hint - goats are more stubborn than mules and donkeys).


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## RustyTheGeek (Jul 18, 2014)

Carrying plenty of water is dependent on the environment, particularly the temps and the availability of water along the trail. I carried between 4L and 6L of water depending on whether trail camps were dry or not. We also carried a Katydyn Water Filter and purification tablets as backup.

Everything in your pack should be protected from water in dry bags, ziplock bags, etc, esp your sleep gear. If your water bladder spang a leak, that should be no different than if the pack fell into a river or stream or got drenched in a rain storm.

The external pockets and configuration of my Kelty backpack allows me to use my MSR Dromedary 3L bladder on the outside of my pack but otherwise it would be on the inside like most other folks.


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## Lloyd (Jul 18, 2014)

I have been using a Gossamer Gear Mariposa backpack which is an older version of the newer http://gossamergear.com/packs/backpacks/mariposa-ultralight-backpack-all-bundle-dyneema.html that has a removable hip belt. When bringing photography equipment, I replace the hip belt with a Think tank belt and attach my Think Tank holsters, lens bags and accessory bags as needed to the exposed side portions of the belt. This gives me an ultralight backpack with the ability to add photo gear as needed and the camera and lenses are readily accessible in the side holsters.


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## RustyTheGeek (Jul 18, 2014)

Lloyd said:


> I have been using a Gossamer Gear Mariposa backpack which is an older version of the newer http://gossamergear.com/packs/backpacks/mariposa-ultralight-backpack-all-bundle-dyneema.html that has a removable hip belt. When bringing photography equipment, I replace the hip belt with a Think tank belt and attach my Think Tank holsters, lens bags and accessory bags as needed to the exposed side portions of the belt. This gives me an ultralight backpack with the ability to add photo gear as needed and the camera and lenses are readily accessible in the side holsters.


Interesting! What about when it rains?


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## mustafaakarsu (Jul 19, 2014)

RustyTheGeek said:


> mustafaakarsu said:
> 
> 
> > This is what I'm thinking to get, this one is expensive but there is a cheaper one in same brand. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1021054-REG/clik_elite_ce610bl_contrejour_40_camera_backpack.html
> ...



It's not serious camping, basically we are driving nearby the location we want to do camping, we are trekking around with backpacks but for sleeping we are going back to car to take tents and stuff. So it's not serious camping.


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## RustyTheGeek (Jul 19, 2014)

mustafaakarsu said:


> RustyTheGeek said:
> 
> 
> > mustafaakarsu said:
> ...


That makes a world of difference! If I'm not mistaken, that means that you aren't really camping out of your backpack, you are car camping and day hiking. That means you're likely carrying mostly camera equipment, a couple liters of water and some snacks. So I'm guessing you're day pack hiking a few miles at most primarily to see the sights, enjoy the group companionship and take a lot of pictures.

I still think buying an expensive photography specific backpack is overkill and fairly useless as a true hiking+camping backpack but to each his own. You can always put camera gear in to a serious hiking backpack but it's hard (if not impossible) to take an expensive photography backpack and use it for serious hiking.

Regardless, have a great time and let us know what you finally decide!


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## Logan (Jul 19, 2014)

mustafaakarsu said:


> RustyTheGeek said:
> 
> 
> > mustafaakarsu said:
> ...



oop sorry, disregard my post then. i have a lowepro flipside that i use for dayhikes, but its more for cities because of the excellent theft-proof opening. you might be better off with something you can access without taking off though.


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## Fotofanten (Jul 19, 2014)

> You can always put camera gear in to a serious hiking backpack but it's hard (if not impossible) to take an expensive photography backpack and use it for serious hiking.



I could not agree more. I've been using a F-stop Loka for a few years now, and while it's a great backpack and probably one of the finest camera backpacks available, I feel a lot more comfortable with my Arcteryx Astral 65 even if I put twice as much weight in it. There is a world of difference, at least to my me and my back. I would say that camera backpack manufacturers have a very long way to go, when it comes to ergonomics. I'm thinking of adding a Lowepro Toploader AW 50 to my kit, now that I have sold the Loka, to be chucked in with the rest of my hiking kit. It should hold a L-plated 6D with a wide angle zoom nice and snugly.


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## stefsan (Jul 21, 2014)

Fotofanten said:


> > You can always put camera gear in to a serious hiking backpack but it's hard (if not impossible) to take an expensive photography backpack and use it for serious hiking.
> 
> 
> 
> I could not agree more. I've been using a F-stop Loka for a few years now, and while it's a great backpack and probably one of the finest camera backpacks available, I feel a lot more comfortable with my Arcteryx Astral 65 even if I put twice as much weight in it. There is a world of difference, at least to my me and my back. I would say that camera backpack manufacturers have a very long way to go, when it comes to ergonomics. I'm thinking of adding a Lowepro Toploader AW 50 to my kit, now that I have sold the Loka, to be chucked in with the rest of my hiking kit. It should hold a L-plated 6D with a wide angle zoom nice and snugly.



Generally I agree that trekking/mountaineering-specific packs are the best available in terms of wearing comfort. But the comparison of the F-Stop Loka with the Arc'teryx Altra is not really fair. The Loka is a 37 litre pack with not that much padding on the hip belt and the shoulder straps. It is not meant to carry 30 kilos like the Altra (which is a fabulous pack by the way). If you try a Tilopa BC (48 litres) or a Satori EXP (62 litres) you might get a rather different experience: both packs are very well constructed and padded so that you can carry your 20-30 kilos of photo gear, mountaineering stuff, clothes, food etc. quite comfortably. It's still heavy to lug around 20 kilos though… ;D


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## RustyTheGeek (Jul 21, 2014)

stefsan said:


> Fotofanten said:
> 
> 
> > > You can always put camera gear in to a serious hiking backpack but it's hard (if not impossible) to take an expensive photography backpack and use it for serious hiking.
> ...



Meh... 20 kilos (44 lbs) isn't that bad... but 30 kilos (66 lbs) is getting heavy! 

IMHO - Once you pass about 20 kilos (44 lbs) every kilo (~2 lbs) after that becomes more and more significant. And don't forget the general rule that you shouldn't carry more than approx 1/3 of your body weight. I weigh between 172 - 178 lbs so that means I shouldn't carry more than about 55 - 60 lbs for long distances. I have carried more than that for miles and it does add up after a while regardless of how well your pack fit is dialed in and optimized. Make sure you have decent hiking boots and socks that are broken in and comfortable!

And I think I read somewhere in this thread that heavy gear goes in the bottom of the pack. That's actually incorrect. The heavy gear goes as close to your body as possible towards the middle/top of the pack so that the weight is transferred more directly through the pack frame to your hips and legs. If it's in the bottom or outside swinging it pulls you off balance and is not carried well.


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## NancyP (Jul 21, 2014)

I can manage about 35 to 40 pounds, and that's about it. But I am small, 115 to 120 pounds. In my estimation, the F/Stop Satori is more than up to that task, provided your torso is the right size. It has good load lifter straps and a really comfortable hip belt. The insert is tethered next to the backboard. 

Boots - good boots are more important than anything. If you don't have well-broken-in perfect-fitting boots, you won't get to your destination. I favor full leather heavy duty boots for any packing beyond light day packs (15 pounds or less). I have just bought some day-hike low-cut shoes and tested them out on a local scree slope and on a long day hike.


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## Halfrack (Jul 21, 2014)

http://www.mindshiftgear.com/ ? As Rusty is saying, start with your size, get a pack that will fit you, as you'll be able to carry more and be less fatigued with a properly fitting pack. Figure out what you're carrying compared to who you're going with - and who is carrying what.

Where are you going, how far under foot power, what type of terrain and weather are you expecting, how many other folks are going? A T3i with 2 lenses are better added to a traditional backpack than a special photo bag purchase. Check out rental options on both types of bags, since you may not need the bag for another year or two and what you carry will change.


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## RustyTheGeek (Jul 21, 2014)

Whenever you try out a backpack, you should spend plenty of time trying it on in the store and fitting it to your hip and torso. The fitting should be done with at least 30+ pounds of weight added to simulate a load.

With regard to boots, everyone has their ideal fit and style. But if you're carrying more weight, heavier duty boots are highly suggested (as opposed to trail shoes) and should probably include ankle support. All leather boots are good but might be a bit hot. Some people's feet sweat more than others. Full synthetic/wool socks are mandatory. NEVER wear cotton socks!!

Personally, until you have carried a decent amount of weight farther than 3-5 miles up and down hills, you really don't know how well the boots will work. Typically you need at least a half size larger boot than your normal daily shoe size due to foot expansion when hiking. Make sure there is enough room in the toe box when going downhill or you'll have toe pain and you might even lose a toenail if a toe is hitting the boot too much when going downhill with your pack.


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## RustyTheGeek (Jul 21, 2014)

The fstop satori looks nice but there doesn't appear to be many options for carrying much outside the pack. There aren't many points to tie on a bed roll, tent, sleeping pad (above or below) or other bulky items that don't fit inside. There don't appear to be many outside pockets. I'm pretty old school I guess but when I take enough stuff to support me and a partner for 2 days or 10 days, I use at least 65-85 liters of space inside my pack depending on weather temps and amount of food needed. And that's before any camera stuff is packed. 

That interior space number doesn't include a couple lightweight Eagle Creek zipper pouches I hang outside for small items like headlights, batteries, etc, my camp chair I strap on the outside and four different water containers that I can attach securely to the sides due to the way my pack is made. The water containers include a 3L MSR dromedary water bladder, a 48 oz Nalgene collapsible soft canteen and two 24 oz Nalgene bottles that fit the (too slim for normal liter bottles) mesh pockets made for water bottles. Close to 6L of water capacity (depending on needs) that is not using space inside the pack.

I see this a lot in most back packs I see, photography or not. It's hard to organize most internal frame packs because there are few pockets or attachment points. My Kelty Redcloud 90 (from 2011) is more versatile than most internal frame packs and the price doesn't break the bank.

Sometime I'll try to take a few pictures of my set up for others to see. I'm just too swamped right now to do it.

Good luck!!!


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## Fotofanten (Jul 21, 2014)

stefsan said:


> Fotofanten said:
> 
> 
> > > You can always put camera gear in to a serious hiking backpack but it's hard (if not impossible) to take an expensive photography backpack and use it for serious hiking.
> ...



You are right, my comparison was unfair. I shared my experience because I was surprised by the amount of difference. For those who carry a lot of gear and need quick access to it, I agree that the bigger F-stop packs represents a very good choice. But do try before you buy! I did not have the chance to do so.


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## Niterider (Jul 21, 2014)

I personally think any camera "backpacking backpack" is a huge waste of money and the people buying them are not really backpackers, they just like to think they are. Weight is a huge burden when backpacking, and all of those camera packs are ridiculously heavy. For example, the 35L Rover Pro is 5 pounds! I think my main pack is 1.5 pounds for comparison...

Just get a pack that fits you well and use the money you save on a good down sleeping bag. If you go this route, get lens cases for each lens and make sure it has a belt loop. When you get to where you are gonna be shooting, put each lens case on the waist belt of the pack and unstrap the tripod from the back. 

Works perfectly for me all the time. I had no complaints when I was doing 18 miles and 10k of elevation gain a day through the snow. Plus my pack has loops for ice axes. I could be wrong, but I have not seen that on any camera pack.


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## RustyTheGeek (Jul 21, 2014)

Niterider said:


> I personally think any camera "backpacking backpack" is a huge waste of money and the people buying them are not really backpackers, they just like to think they are. Weight is a huge burden when backpacking, and all of those camera packs are ridiculously heavy. For example, the 35L Rover Pro is 5 pounds! I think my main pack is 1.5 pounds for comparison...
> 
> Just get a pack that fits you well and use the money you save on a good down sleeping bag. If you go this route, get lens cases for each lens and make sure it has a belt loop. When you get to where you are gonna be shooting, put each lens case on the waist belt of the pack and unstrap the tripod from the back.
> 
> Works perfectly for me all the time. I had no complaints when I was doing 18 miles and 10k of elevation gain a day through the snow. Plus my pack has loops for ice axes. I could be wrong, but I have not seen that on any camera pack.



*Niterider* is being brutally honest. If you want a photography backpack to carry lots of camera gear more comfortably on a day hike, by all means, go for it. If you plan to do real hiking and live out of your backpack for 2+ days, do yourself a favor and get real hiking gear just like you already do for real photography. Learn how to camp, hike and carry weight. Get in shape. Camp with others that are more experienced and become a knowledgeable outdoor person. You'll likely spend over $1000 - $1500 before you're done and you'll still lust after some better hiking gear. And you will likely devise a special unique method and system for your photography so you can enjoy hiking and photography simultaneously.


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## Lyle Krannichfeld (Jul 22, 2014)

My personal setup is an F Stop ICU (a couple sizes depending on the situation) to hold all the camera gear, which goes into a regular backpacking backpack (either a 55L Osprey or 75L Gregory). I attach the camera itself to my shoulder strap with a carabiner if I want easy access. The tripod straps to the outside usually, and I put my Lee filters, remote and an extra battery in the brain of the pack for quick access. I do plan on picking up an F Stop bag that fits the ICU's for a smaller day pack down the road. They seem well built and intelligently designed.


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## EOS rebel (Jul 22, 2014)

Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. The varied knowledge is amazing on this forum.

So far, I'm leaning towards getting the dedicated hiking backpack and a padded insert as an ICU as many of you have suggested. So in terms of the backpack, I'm liking the reviews on the Osprey Aether 60L pack and plan to try it out in person later this week. Might change my mind later on but there's still plenty of time for that. As for the ICU, I like the Clik Elite Capsule so far. Would have gone for the Mountainsmith Kit Cube as suggested earlier by Eagle Eye, but being in Canada, the price with shipping is fairly ridiculous when there are alternative options... I'll keep on looking around though.

Keep on coming with the interesting tips everyone. I'm still very new to backpacking so it's good to learn.


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## RustyTheGeek (Jul 22, 2014)

EOS rebel said:


> Thanks for all the suggestions everyone. The varied knowledge is amazing on this forum.
> 
> So far, I'm leaning towards getting the dedicated hiking backpack and a padded insert as an ICU as many of you have suggested. So in terms of the backpack, I'm liking the reviews on the Osprey Aether 60L pack and plan to try it out in person later this week. Might change my mind later on but there's still plenty of time for that. As for the ICU, I like the Clik Elite Capsule so far. Would have gone for the Mountainsmith Kit Cube as suggested earlier by Eagle Eye, but being in Canada, the price with shipping is fairly ridiculous when there are alternative options... I'll keep on looking around though.
> 
> Keep on coming with the interesting tips everyone. I'm still very new to backpacking so it's good to learn.



Try to resist the temptation to buy the ultimate backpack now. Once you have some real hiking experience, your taste/need/knowledge factor will probably change. There are a lot of great makes and while Osprey is a great pack, it's pretty expensive. Keep your mind open. Buy what works for YOU, not what the marketing sells you. Depending on your area and what outfitters are near you go to at least two or three well stocked stores and try on at least 6 to 12 packs that you like. Hopefully each store will have qualified staff to help you get a good fit. It's important that the pack fit your hip and torso correctly. If not, it doesn't matter what price or cool factor the pack has, it's simply not for you. Make sure it's fitted to you with at least 30 lbs or of weight in it. Once fitted, walk around the store for 15 minutes or so with the weight. After you have tried a few packs, you should pretty much know your measurements so future fittings will go faster. Google some info on how the pack should fit and how most packs adjust. (Main adjustment straps are hip, shoulder and load lifters.)

BTW, you may run across some great forums that are dedicated to ultralite hiking. As tempting as it is to embrace this type of hiking, it's an advanced thing and an exercise in greater and greater compromises to save weight. It's not as easy as it sounds and since you are carrying camera equipment, you are already breaking all those rules anyway. Save weight by getting a great down sleeping bag, upper line ultralite tent and reduce your non-essential gear like that blacksmith anvil you probably want to carry.

Personally, I am using a Big Agnes Copper Spur UL1 tent and a zpacks 20 degree water resistant down sleeping bag. (zpacks also makes a super ultralite tent but it's expensive and takes some getting used to.) Also, Thermarest NeoAir is your absolute best friend! I'll share more info later if you ask but for now, just focus on getting the backpack, decent boots and socks.


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## JPAZ (Jul 22, 2014)

Gotta say something (although it does reiterate some what's been posted thus far). Much of your decision for this particular trip depends on the trip specifics. Don't spend hundreds on a pack that won't serve your purpose. I have Arcterx, Osprey and an F-stop Loka. I also have a flimsy lightweight day pack. There are uses for each. Questions to be answered include how quickly you want to access your gear. No matter which pack I am using, my camera is in a Thinktank Holster with my lens of choice for that day. The holster is hung from my pack shoulder straps and not my neck and is secured against my torso with either the backpack hip belt or an independent waist belt (depending on which backpack I am carrying). The camera strap is around my neck but very loosely as a security blanket with no camera weight on that neck strap unless I take the camera out of the hoster and the holster top is partially zipped protecting the camera but allowing the camera strap to come out. If the weather turns bad, I put the camera strap completely in TH TT holster and throw the all-weather cover on it.

For additional camera gear, I've had stuff inside the backpack (maybe use the F-stop ICU but have also just wrapped in socks or clothing) but have also hung a Lowepro lens case off the backpack hip or shoulder strap if I want quick access to a second lens. The goal is always the same: immediate access to my camera in front of me while protecting my stuff from the elements.

Finally, I agree with everyone who says not to skimp on boots (and wear them a lot for many days before going on the trail) and account for water which can get quite heavy and also leak into your camera gear in whatever pack you carry if you don't account for that.

Have a great trip.

JP


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## ahsanford (Jul 29, 2014)

TDP's Bryan Carnathan just weighed in on his large hiking pack choice:

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/MindShift-Gear-Rotation-180-Professional.aspx

- A


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## NancyP (Jul 30, 2014)

f-stop Satori does have a lot of Molle strapping on it, and some other ways to attach stuff to the outside, but it is true that it doesn't have a bedroll strap setup on the bottom. I have attached the tripod to the pack front midline by threading a pair of home-made stiff plastic loops (two plastic trash bag ties taped together with duct tape) through some loops near the top center of the pack, and then placing two tripod legs in the two stiff plastic loops. Perfect fit. You can mount many lens cases on Molle strapping. You can buy a lot of other gear that is made for putting on Molle strapping, generally from military suppliers. (Molle is the standard attachment system for the US Army, and lots of first responders use it as well).

Ultralight camping gear is not cheap! I will say that the Big Agnes Fly Creek UL1 is a nice freestanding double-wall solo tent with the single annoyance of an end entry instead of a side entry. So I plop my butt just inside the tent, feet outside, take off shoes, and back into the tent. Fine and dandy, but it gets old if I am popping in and out of the tent through the night managing astro-landscape shots. If weather is good, I don't bother with the fly, I like the unobstructed view. It is a great beginner's tent, 5 minute set-up, probably one of the lightest freestanding tents out there.


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## RustyTheGeek (Jul 30, 2014)

NancyP said:


> f-stop Satori does have a lot of Molle strapping on it, and some other ways to attach stuff to the outside, but it is true that it doesn't have a bedroll strap setup on the bottom. I have attached the tripod to the pack front midline by threading a pair of home-made stiff plastic loops (two plastic trash bag ties taped together with duct tape) through some loops near the top center of the pack, and then placing two tripod legs in the two stiff plastic loops. Perfect fit. You can mount many lens cases on Molle strapping. You can buy a lot of other gear that is made for putting on Molle strapping, generally from military suppliers. (Molle is the standard attachment system for the US Army, and lots of first responders use it as well).
> 
> Ultralight camping gear is not cheap! I will say that the Big Agnes Fly Creek UL1 is a nice freestanding double-wall solo tent with the single annoyance of an end entry instead of a side entry. So I plop my butt just inside the tent, feet outside, take off shoes, and back into the tent. Fine and dandy, but it gets old if I am popping in and out of the tent through the night managing astro-landscape shots. If weather is good, I don't bother with the fly, I like the unobstructed view. It is a great beginner's tent, 5 minute set-up, probably one of the lightest freestanding tents out there.



I have the Big Agnes Copper Spur UL1 for the side entry instead of the Fly Creek end entry. It's about the same weight but without the end entry which I don't like either. Totally kills the ergonomics of the tent for me and makes the vestibule virtually worthless.


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## NancyP (Jul 31, 2014)

I am pretty small, and if needed, everything except for the boots can come inside the tent. But yes, I would have spent a few more bucks and a few more ounces and gotten the Copper Spur UL1, if I had tried out the tent a few times before buying. But it is good enough, not worth changing. 
I just noticed that LowePro Trekker bags have torso length adjustment. That might help people who are wanting a pack for heavy all-camera-gear loads over short distances.


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## RustyTheGeek (Jul 31, 2014)

Good to know NancyP. 

Personally, I think there are two categories of photography and backpacks.

1. Serious and extended camping/hiking, etc. *This is 90% Trail Priority / 10% Photography* (regardless of the purpose of the trip or the amount of photo gear needed) because the person needs to live on the trail and be comfortable, healthy and hydrated for the entire time. They need to have good appropriate gear/boots/etc for the trip and be in good shape to handle the physical demands. Photography may be the reason for the trip but failure to properly outfit for the journey is courting disaster. Taking too much of anything, esp photography equipment, may literally break the hiker, the pack or both.

2. Light hiking to a major photography project/activity. *This is 80% Photography / 20% Hiking* and is likely a day trip or overnight journey, ideally in warm weather not too far away from the car and occurring in fairly hospitable locations. This is what I think photography packs are designed for. They are made to help carry a lot of photography gear a few miles max with no need for much more than a snack and some water for the person. They are designed with a lot of padding that I often find overkill since I don't plan to play kickball with the pack but it makes most folks feel better knowing they are carrying an extra 10 lbs of foam padding around all their gear. I do a LOT of scout camping, summer camps, and outdoor events. I have found that for what I do, it's easier to take a trunk in a vehicle with plenty of gear, individual lens cases, etc and put what is needed in a simple day pack and walk lighter. Someday I might get a photography daypack but they seldom hold enough to make it worth the high cost. You get some photo gear loaded into all the dedicated slots, etc and you have little room available for anything non-photography related. And it's heavy. And everyone sees you carrying around a big expensive photo pack. I look geeky enough already thank you. 8)


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## NancyP (Jul 31, 2014)

You summed it up well, RustytheGeek. I noticed that some photo packs are not black and look more like standard backpacks (unless you have a tripod hanging off it). The small daypacks from Lowe Photo come in ungodly bright orange, a particularly nice feature if you hike in hunting country. I wear an orange too-big mesh fabric vest I keep in the car for hiking and for hoofing it after possible road accidents. The Lowe Pro Trekker packs come in some neutral grey-brown color, I believe, though most photo stores insist on only stocking the black version.

For day hikes, belt-mounted heavier lenses work well, and the day pack is a minimalist Flash 18L from REI that does great for my coat, extra sox, headlamp, extra water (I am a bottle fan, one or two on the hip for frequent sipping, one or more in the pack for refills), little photo stuff like filters and releases and lenscloth, snacks, etc - and I have started to carry a emergency-blanket-like bivy bag, mini med kit, waterproof matches in colder weather. I usually take the tripod in the case it came in, but it is diminutive enough that it could go naked in the daypack. Phone, paper map, analog ("real" - needle) compass in my pants pocket for easy access. If I know that cell access is iffy on my route (hills!), a pocket emergency beacon is also in my pants pocket.


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## scottburgess (Aug 1, 2014)

EOS rebel said:


> I'm planning on going camping at the end of August and I'm starting to look at camera bags that would fit the bill. So I'd like to hear about your recommendations and experiences with camping and photography.



I've done backcountry photography for a long time. The best pack I found (and have ever seen) for this purpose is the Dana Design Arclight Swiftcurrent, long since discontinued but still available on the used market. I place my photo gear in a separate generic camera bag at the bottom of the pack.

Main advantages of this pack: 
- Beavertail Shovit is perfect for holding a large tripod
- Slant opening is great for getting at any gear--since it is best to keep high-density items (like metal and glass lenses) near your waist for weight transference to hips, this means I can keep the camera gear at the bottom of the pack yet still have immediate access. Yes, I have been able to shoot animals before they took off because of this feature!
- Pack itself is light weight, doesn't add much to the load. This was a design feature of all the Arclight packs.
- Generous side saddles (available in small or large sizes) can be added or not depending on how deep into the back country I am headed.

You have to see one to believe how great Dana Design was at backpack design. If you buy one, make sure you get the correct size for your torso length. High quality used ones often run only about $100, but it will likely be the last pack you ever buy. Base unit is 4500 cubic inches, two long side saddles add about 900 cubic inches. I put the sleeping pad on top, pack a 3-person tunnel-design tent, and even with several days of food and the camera goodies can keep it to 45 lbs.

If you don't find a used one on the usual used sites, consider posting a "wanted" item to some backpacker forums. Lots of hikers have multiple packs, and would be happy to get some cash in exchange for one they no longer need.


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## NancyP (Aug 1, 2014)

Dana Designs lives but is called something else now. 
http://www.mysteryranch.com/site/index.html
The current packs are really heavy, and are intended for serious load hauling - even the 35L daypack is over 4 pounds.


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## Lloyd (Aug 1, 2014)

RustyTheGeek said:


> Lloyd said:
> 
> 
> > I have been using a Gossamer Gear Mariposa backpack which is an older version of the newer http://gossamergear.com/packs/backpacks/mariposa-ultralight-backpack-all-bundle-dyneema.html that has a removable hip belt. When bringing photography equipment, I replace the hip belt with a Think tank belt and attach my Think Tank holsters, lens bags and accessory bags as needed to the exposed side portions of the belt. This gives me an ultralight backpack with the ability to add photo gear as needed and the camera and lenses are readily accessible in the side holsters.
> ...



Most of the Think Tank holsters have rain covers, but I always bring light weight dry bags if I get stuck in heavy rains or if making a river crossing where there is a possibility I could fall into the water.


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## NancyP (Aug 1, 2014)

The Gossamer Gear Mariposa is one of the packs of interest, but I don't see it in the local stores. If you ordered it directly from the manufacturer, how was your interaction with them, and do you think that they will work with a customer to get the right fit (that is, prompt no-fuss exchange of sizes, or just plain refund if it doesn't fit well at any size)? This pack got a very nice review at Section Hiker website, along with several others. Granite Gear looks interesting due to the extreme adjustability, with different shaped and sized shoulder straps, different shaped and sized belts, a framesheet system with different width attachments for shoulder straps and different height torso adjustment at 1" intervals. Well, I will be off to REI and see if anything in the store at the moment happens to fit me well, have main compartment panel access, and have lashing points for attaching a tripod. I could get lucky.


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## RustyTheGeek (Aug 1, 2014)

NancyP said:


> The Gossamer Gear Mariposa is one of the packs of interest, but I don't see it in the local stores. If you ordered it directly from the manufacturer, how was your interaction with them, and do you think that they will work with a customer to get the right fit (that is, prompt no-fuss exchange of sizes, or just plain refund if it doesn't fit well at any size)? This pack got a very nice review at Section Hiker website, along with several others. Granite Gear looks interesting due to the extreme adjustability, with different shaped and sized shoulder straps, different shaped and sized belts, a framesheet system with different width attachments for shoulder straps and different height torso adjustment at 1" intervals. Well, I will be off to REI and see if anything in the store at the moment happens to fit me well, have main compartment panel access, and have lashing points for attaching a tripod. I could get lucky.



I haven't dealt with Gossamer Gear but their packs are probably what I would get if I went ultralite on packs. I _have_ purchased an ultralite sleeping bag and duplex tent from Joe Valesko of zpacks.com. He was very easy to deal with and while I loved and kept the bag, I returned the tent after deciding I didn't want to move away from my current favorite Big Agnes Copper Spur UL1. It took a little while but I got a full refund from Joe on the tent without any hassle.


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## fmiranda (Aug 1, 2014)

Lloyd said:


> I have been using a Gossamer Gear Mariposa backpack which is an older version of the newer http://gossamergear.com/packs/backpacks/mariposa-ultralight-backpack-all-bundle-dyneema.html that has a removable hip belt. When bringing photography equipment, I replace the hip belt with a Think tank belt and attach my Think Tank holsters, lens bags and accessory bags as needed to the exposed side portions of the belt. This gives me an ultralight backpack with the ability to add photo gear as needed and the camera and lenses are readily accessible in the side holsters.



Thanks much for the info, I was planning to get an Osprey Volt due to the low weight and ergonomics but the option of using a Think Tank belt makes this one a worthy option. Question: which TT belt do you use, the Steroid or just the Pro is enough for the well being of your hips?


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## pablo (Aug 1, 2014)

Whatever bag you use, take plenty of silica gel, or some raw rice. Condensation gets everywhere when you are camping.


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## RustyTheGeek (Aug 1, 2014)

pablo said:


> Whatever bag you use, take plenty of silica gel, or some raw rice. Condensation gets everywhere when you are camping.



Well, maybe. That depends heavily on the climate. For instance, it's rarely humid in parts of the southwest, esp at higher altitudes. Dry, dry, dry. That's what I love about it!!


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## pablo (Aug 1, 2014)

yep, but all the moisture in your breath is wet wet wet and it will condense upon any surface within the tent.

Alright, don't take silica gel. Your kit.


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## RustyTheGeek (Aug 1, 2014)

pablo said:


> yep, but all the moisture in your breath is wet wet wet and it will condense upon any surface within the tent.
> 
> Alright, don't take silica gel. Your kit.



I understand your concern pablo. Inside the tent overnight is a good point. The problem with silica or other humidity control devices is that they will be saturated in no time and be of little use. The environment will overpower them very quickly and then they are just extra weight.

In general, if the camera is in the same environment that everything else is, it's all equal and condensation rarely forms as long as the camera isn't suddenly moving into a much warmer or more humid environment. The overnight inner tent environment is an exception which is why the camera stays outside of my inner tent under the vestibule if there's a possibility of condensation. In the dryer climates this isn't much of an issue though. Also, one can always keep the camera in a ziplock bag overnight inside a humid tent to prevent condensation and not remove it until the tent has been opened and ventilated.

Whatever the case, a good understanding of what causes condensation and how humidity works will serve one well in determining what is needed to prevent moisture problems.


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## Lloyd (Aug 2, 2014)

NancyP said:


> The Gossamer Gear Mariposa is one of the packs of interest, but I don't see it in the local stores. If you ordered it directly from the manufacturer, how was your interaction with them, and do you think that they will work with a customer to get the right fit (that is, prompt no-fuss exchange of sizes, or just plain refund if it doesn't fit well at any size)? This pack got a very nice review at Section Hiker website, along with several others.



I did not have to return it and I live in Austin, where they are located, so this was not a concern for me. I regularly receive emails from them and they seem to be very responsive. I have a curved back and the stays are basically an aluminum rod in a U shape with the closed end at the top. I could easily bend them into a favorable shape for my spine and they have remained intact. 



fmiranda said:


> Thanks much for the info, I was planning to get an Osprey Volt due to the low weight and ergonomics but the option of using a Think Tank belt makes this one a worthy option. Question: which TT belt do you use, the Steroid or just the Pro is enough for the well being of your hips?



I use the pro because it is what I had before I bought the Mariposa. I think the pro would work better than the Steroid because the Steroid has its loops focused in the rear so after you insert it through the sleeve in the back there would not be any loops exposed. I don't know if the padded and looped area is greater on the larger sized Pro belts. If it is, I would go for the largest belt in your size range so as to have a larger exposed loop area. Also, if the belt is let out to its max it is hard to get any leverage on it to cinch it as there is not much strap to grab. However, you don't want it so big that you are not able to be able to cinch it due to the padded area getting in the way.

I have attached a few photos of my belts and pack. As the sleeve in the Mariposa has velcro in it to keep the belt in place, I wrapped double sided velcro around the back of the think tank belt to keep it in place. I also have a photo of the Mariposa belt and the think tank belt next to each other. You will note that the think tank belt is not as wide, but it is better padded. The fact that the think tank belt is narrower makes the use of the velcro more important. I also put the OpTech quick connectors on my pack shoulder straps so I can hang the camera on the straps if am in an area where I am taking a lot of photos and am not bothered by it bouncing around.


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## fmiranda (Aug 2, 2014)

> Lloyd said:
> 
> 
> > fmiranda said:
> ...



Thanks again for taking you time and especially for all the pictures and added info. I think that the Steroid belt would work in terms of width and I guess if you are using it with the Mariposa you wouldn't be using the loops anyway. In any case, I will likely get the Pro belt as this was my intended setup for fairly short day hikes. I will need the full backpack setup only for a planned November trip so there will be plenty of time to try different setups. The option of hanging the holster on the belt as per your picture is much better than what I have been doing, which is carry the holster attached to the backpack shoulder straps. This blocks the view and was not a good idea last time I was walking on rock ledges.

Have a great weekend, many thanks again.


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## Lloyd (Aug 3, 2014)

fmiranda said:


> Have a great weekend, many thanks again.


You are very welcome.


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## NancyP (Aug 4, 2014)

Very interesting, Lloyd. What is the maximum weight that you have carried with the ThinkTank belt/ Mariposa combination, in the backpack part and on the belt part?


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## NancyP (Aug 4, 2014)

Another question, Lloyd - where do you stash your tripod on the Mariposa for easy access?


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## Lloyd (Aug 5, 2014)

NancyP said:


> Very interesting, Lloyd. What is the maximum weight that you have carried with the ThinkTank belt/ Mariposa combination, in the backpack part and on the belt part?


I looked at my last spreadsheet and with ultralight tent, bag, clothes, cooking gear, food, water, 60D, 10-22mm and 400mm 5.6 it shows around 30lbs. This is my weight for winter in Texas or for September in the Wind River range in Wyoming. Camera gear totals about 6+ pounds. In reality the whole pack with belt probably ended up a few pounds more than 30. The above weight also includes a cheapo 1.6 lb aluminum tripod that folds up to about 15" and fits in the long side pocket. It should be noted that my Mariposa has two small side pockets on top of each other on one side and a long pocket on the other side. I am able to put the tripod and my six moon trekker tent in the long pocket. The ultralight route means some compromises and in my case the tripod was one of them. If I am going to a place with distant wildlife or observing climbers I may also take my 6 oz lens2scope which turns the 400mm into a spotting scope but taxes the cheapo tripod. I also substitute the 10-22 for my 40mm or 18-55 EFS for regular snapshots.


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## NancyP (Aug 5, 2014)

Thanks! The 400 f/5.6 rides on the belt, I presume. That's a great combo, 400 5.6, 10-22, and 60D. I have been using 60D, 15-85 as a one-lens landscape/plant/general nature set up (note that in the Ozarks where I shoot, there aren't many grand vistas), and adding the 400 5.6 if I think I am going to have good birding. I thought the tripod might fit in the long pocket, as shown in the older reviews of the Mariposa, but now the Mariposa Plus is shown on the GG site with 2 short pockets each side. I suppose it might be possible to get the old long pocket substituted in by the manufacturer. 

My luxury light tripod is the Feisol CT3442 (no center column) plus Arca-Swiss p0 ball head, approximately 3.0 # with screw clamp, and approximately 19" long with legs folded over the (rather small) head. I haven't tried it for longer exposure astrophotography yet. My heavy duty tripod is a very similar style but larger diameter Feisol CT3742, 4# by itself.


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## Lloyd (Aug 5, 2014)

NancyP said:


> Thanks! The 400 f/5.6 rides on the belt, I presume. That's a great combo, 400 5.6, 10-22, and 60D. I have been using 60D, 15-85 as a one-lens landscape/plant/general nature set up (note that in the Ozarks where I shoot, there aren't many grand vistas), and adding the 400 5.6 if I think I am going to have good birding. I thought the tripod might fit in the long pocket, as shown in the older reviews of the Mariposa, but now the Mariposa Plus is shown on the GG site with 2 short pockets each side. I suppose it might be possible to get the old long pocket substituted in by the manufacturer.


I put the 400 in a Think Tank lens changer pouch or Skin 75 on the belt. The skin is significantly lighter, but does not offer the protection of the pouch. The larger holsters for your camera will fit the camera with the lens attached in the pouch temporarily, but, as I recall, it protrudes enough that you can't zip it up. It shouldn't fall out if just walking around or standing, but it is not really a secure place to put it in for a long hike. I would test it for you, but the 400 I use belongs to a friend. We loan each other camera lens for such trips. As it is not my lens, I am more likely to use the pouch instead of the skin due to the pouches superior protection.

My only problem with using the belt system and the pack is when I have to to cross some creek in a wilderness area. Most of the time I find myself crossing using a downed tree and this can be a bit disconcerting even if you don't have a pack. But with a pack and camera gear it becomes a real problem that I have not totally solved. I bring along a large light weight water proof bag for my camera gear in in these circumstances, but the problem is what to do with the bag as you cross the river. It is best to save room in the pack for such situations. If you don't have enough room, which is usually the case for me on a trip over several days, then you have to carry the waterproof bag filled with gear separately. If you attach it to the pack it can swing around and totally screw with your balance. If you hand hold the bag, you lose a hand to grab onto something to maintain your balance. Usually, I don't hike alone in such situations and I have a friend go first and hand the camera bag over to them, but this only works well for very small crossings. The only other way is to throw a line across the river and use a carabiner to slid the bag along the line to the person on the other side. I have not had to do this yet and it comes with its own risks as I am not too confident of the strength of the attachment points for these light weight waterproof bags when carrying 5-6 pounds of camera gear. I have also thought about getting small waterproof bags, or even heavy duty zip lock bags, for each lens and the camera that will fit around the lens or camera while it is in the holster/pouch. However, whether this would survive a fall from a log into a river/creek is questionable and with the pouches/holsters on you become much wider which further complicates maneuvering through a downed tree across a river. So far, that is why I have stayed with putting the stuff in one bag and getting it across separately. Perhaps if I had better balance I would not be as anal about this.


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## NancyP (Aug 5, 2014)

Thanks, Lloyd. I tend to hike with the camera attached to the Cotton Carrier vest, so it is available quickly and its weight is centered. I can still hold hiking poles, etc. That doesn't solve the stream-crossing problem. I haven't addressed this yet because the streams I am likely to cross are tiny, and if worse came to worse, I would take off the camera, stash it in a dry sack, go across without camera, empty pack sufficiently to fit camera in, then fetch the camera in dry bag inside pack, rearrange on the other side.


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## Lloyd (Aug 8, 2014)

Nancy, I just received the following review of the new version of the Mariposa and it appears that they are retaining the large pocket on one side and the two smaller pockets on the other side. http://southwestultralight.blogspot.com/2014/08/first-look-gossamer-gear-2014-mariposa.html It also notes that the newly designed shoulder straps are more female friendly. It also has a system for attaching hiking poles that you may be able to adapt to hold your tripod. The full description of the new model can be found at the Gossamer web site at http://gossamergear.com/packs/backpacks/mariposa-ultralight-backpack-all-bundle-568.html By the way, although I live in the same city as the Gossamer gear folks, I have no interest in the company other than as a consumer.

Take care, Lloyd


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## NancyP (Aug 9, 2014)

Thanks for sending the review and info! It looks quite interesting. 
I am quite impressed by the number of "cottage industry" order-by-mail backpacks out there, made or designed in the USA.
Ultralights:
Hyperlight Mountain Gear
ULA
Zpack
6 Moons
Gossamer Gear
Zimmerbuilt
Light modular external frame, can be upgraded to "hunter meat hauling"
Paradox
External frame hunter meat haulers, heavy-duty and heavy:
Stone Glacier
Mystery Ranch

My first step is to get measured at REI and try a bunch of backpacks, weighted, in the store and see what fits, what doesn't, what options are awful, etc. Simplicity seems desirable.


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## RustyTheGeek (Aug 9, 2014)

Nice list NancyP. Good luck! Keep us posted on what you discover.


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## NancyP (Aug 23, 2014)

I decided to do some bricks and mortar shopping to get an idea of what I like and don't like. I have a torso length of 14", apparently, because women's packs starting at 15" are not comfortable. That limits me somewhat in the major manufacturers - I checked out Osprey, Gregory, Kelty, REI house brand packs because those were the packs that I could try out in person. I checked out kids' adjustable packs as well. Going ultralight may be something I do later on, when I am more experienced. The finalists were Osprey Ariel 65 XS women's pack, adjusted to minimum 14" torso height, and Gregory Wander 70 youth pack, likewise adjusted to 14". I walked around in the store, did squats, leaned over, etc for 30 minutes for each pack with a 27 pound load, and they both felt fine. They are 3.5 pound packs. Gregory Ariel was on sale for $210.00, Gregory Wander was full price at $200.00, and the Ariel had more convenient access to main compartment and had water bladder access external to pack body (the bladder slot is between pack backframe and pack body, so you could refill the bladder without having to unpack and repack the main chamber of the pack). Ariel also had a more comprehensive compression strap system.

Now that I have a pack that allows me to carry 30# comfortably, I can start training with graduated weight and length hikes. If I ever go look at ultralight packs, I might go for ULA Circuit, which is made in a kids' adjustable version, really the only ultralight pack with 14" torso capability, or get custom made . But that's in the future, and may never happen.


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## dcm (Aug 23, 2014)

I like your approach NancyP. I've been using Gregory Z30 and Z45 packs for my hiking/fishing/photography trips and recommend this approach to others. The challenge has been how to carry the camera gear in/on the pack. 

I'm going to try a new approach on my weekend trips this fall. I carried my M/22 last year and that makes a nice minimum carry, but I missed the wide/telephoto I got carrying my 6D/17-40/70-200f4/1.4x combo. I picked up the EF-M 11-22 earlier this year and recently added the EF-M 55-200. The M combo (1080g) is less than half the 6D combo (2455g). My existing collection of bags and cases didn't fit these well (with a few extra batteries and CPLs). While getting an aluminum tube made for a pair of new fly rods, I decided to try a rod tube for my camera gear. They all slide nicely into a 3" paper mailing tube so I had a 15" long rod tube made, brass caps with an O-ring seal to handle the typical afternoon showers in the Rockies. Weighs less than a pound (400g) while the gear inside weighs more than twice that. My wife stitched up a few bags from some extra lens cleaning cloths to provide protection inside the tube and I added velcro tabs to close them. This looks like the smallest and strongest solution possible with little wasted space. Initial tests look promising, sits nicely in the pack or an outer pocket.


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## NancyP (Aug 24, 2014)

dcm, that is a nice simple solution. Does it shift and rattle any while walking with it?


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## dcm (Aug 24, 2014)

NancyP said:


> dcm, that is a nice simple solution. Does it shift and rattle any while walking with it?



Nope, not in my tests. The fit is fairly tight (the M barely fits) and the bags (like rod socks) eliminate any noise or wear from contact with the tube or other items in the tube. The seams at the bottom of the socks and the fold from the velcro closure at the top provide padding between items. Padding on both ends of the tube and the close fit keep it from shifting much, even if you invert the tube. When I attach a camera/lens combo to the pack strap I will likely stuff a sock or ziplock filled with air in the tube to fill the void, even in a vertical orientation. Both horizontal and vertical external attachments are possible with my pack, internal will be vertical.

It's still in the experiment stage. My first hikes are a few weekends away. I'll know better after several miles on the trail and post an update then. It might be a reasonable option for other compact camera systems, but I don't think it will scale up to DSLRs and L series lenses.


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## Vern (Aug 24, 2014)

Per others: if you are backpacking, get a great pack for that and put your camera gear in bags to go inside. I carry a Dana Design pack (big green one in front, pictured below) that fits like a glove. On this hike (round trip of Syncline loop at Islands in the Sky) we spent one night on the trail and I carried a 5DMKII, 70-200 2.8II, 16-35 II, 24 TS II, 300 2.8II, 1.4X and 2X converters + Gitzo tripod and ball head plus accessories. It was a dry camp, so everyone was loaded. One innovation (?) to carry my tripod and access my camera was to place a large "S"-hook above the right shoulder so I could hang the tripod with camera mounted and have the weight carried on my hips. I can snap quick pics w/o removing the tripod from the hook, or easily take it down w/o removing my pack. I've carried this set-up for up to 4 night outings when we had access to water good enough to filter. I also carried food for everyone, clothes etc. though I had my sons and a friend to help with the tents. This was a rough hike (2nd photo shows a downhill section that was the worst), but I felt fine with this gear b/c I had a great pack. I am 6'2" but only 160 lbs, so not a muscle-man (I'm far left in the 1st shot). Last shot is inside the Syncline crater - kind of reminded me of Mordor (pano w 24 TSII). I'd rather handle a heavy pack than not get the shot.


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## Click (Aug 24, 2014)

dcm said:


> ... I decided to try a rod tube for my camera gear...



That's a great idea. I'm going to try this also. Thanks for sharing, dcm.


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## Bjorn Holmsen (Aug 25, 2014)

Hi EOS rebel,

This is my first post here.

I think you and most other camera enthusiasts may look at the camera-bag-for-travel-or-camping challenge in the wrong way; ie which camera bag can I also put some other gear in? If you want to carry equipment and food for, say, two days or more in the field, your "other" gear, extra clothes, food, water, fuel, stove, sleeping bag, tent, etc., will easily weigh and take more space than all your camera gear. For hiking and camping, unless you go camping with a car or in a large canoe, you will be restricted to a light camera body and max 3 to 4 lenses, and if you are out for a week, that is too much even.

I pack my camera and lenses in thinner pouches (not very thick padding) that can be stuffed directly into the main compartment of my normal rucksack, or in its outer pockets. Most dedicated camera bags waste a lot of space on unnecessarily thick padding. (Camera enthusiasts tend to think their expensive gear will break otherwise, it won't if you treat the bag with some caution.)

The pouches (my favourites are "Thinktank" I guess the name is but I am not sure) can be attached to my belt, the waistbelt on the ruck, or on the outside of the ruck when I need theme readily available. They can be stored with the hood attached, and no cap, pointing down. There is a built-it rain cover if it gets wet. For checking in on airplanes, I jus transfer them to my daypack, which should be a detachable part of the main ruck.

This way you can use the best rucksack for your way of travelling with plenty of room for all gear you need while not comprising either use nor safety of your photo equipment. It shold be easy to attach a tripod to most normal rucks, but attaching tents, sleeping bag, mattress etc to a camera bag may be challenging. 

I will trekk from Kashgar in China to K2 in a couple of weeks. We will use camels to haul heavy stuff but each member will carry daypacks for food, camera gear, and some extra clothes and the like. For the last ascent up to the advance base camp (in extremely steep, rough and hostile terrain), we will have to carry all our gear on our backs, enough for four days or more under extreme conditions (over glacier at high altitude, facing possible blizzards and temperatures down -30 at night etc) so the carrying equipment has to be very versatile.

For this I picked the Mystery Ranch Nice WOLF Alfa, an expedition favourite among US special forces. Not cheap by any means, > 800 USD, but the best stuff you can get. It is flexible and modular in design with a maximum volume of 100 litres, needed for the ascent up to the ABC, but the lower compartment and outer pockets can be removed to make it a much smaller and lighter 60 liter ruck for other parts of the trekk, and the top lid itself, 15 liters, can be removed and used as a cary-on luggage in airplanes.

In addition, the Wolf has two long tube-shaped outer pockets with zippers (presumably to give easy access to grenades) where my travel tripod exactly fits in. No hassle with straps and the like, and no risk of the tripod getting entangled somewhere.

These are uniques properties I have not found in any other rucksack.

Good luck!


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## NancyP (Aug 25, 2014)

Bjorn, I looked at Mystery Ranch, but all of their current packs are quite heavy, 7 pounds or more, and I am a 115 pound novice backpacker. I have a heavy enough pack (Osprey Ariel 65) at 4.5 pounds. If one uses the "no more than 25% of body weight" as a pack weight limit, I truly should pick as light a pack as I can feel comfortable using. I think I got a good "beginner" pack, and I am going to just stuff wrapped lenses near the J shaped zipper into the main pack compartment. I can hitch a belt-type lens case onto the pack belt. Filters etc can live in the "brain". Tripod lashes onto the back.

You are likely a lot larger than I am, and can reasonably take a beefy pack. The external frame military packs or "hunter's backpacks" for hauling back carcasses are flexible but by necessity too heavy for me. Paradox Pack is the lightest weight of the external packs, and I could carry them, but these are specialty items, hard to find, more or less have to wait for them and order by mail.


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## RustyTheGeek (Aug 26, 2014)

Hi NancyP,

It sounds like you are doing great with your research! Kudos for putting in the time/effort to optimize your gear. To my recollection, I think the guideline is 30% of your body weight. So I suggest to help with this challenge you could....

- Gain weight until you reach the 30% number you need. If you had a body weight of say, 185, you could carry 55 lbs!! So go hit that steakhouse!! 
- Lose weight until you reach the 30% of a fellow hiker and just let them carry you in their pack! If you have a big tall body builder friend that weighs say, 250, then you only have to lose about 35 lbs and you would be on the upper limit of what they could carry! 

Of course, the second option means you won't have any gear or photo stuff so I guess the first option is the preferred option and you get to eat all you want in the bargain! Please provide pictures as you approach your target weight! OK, I'm a bad boy. I'm feeling kinda silly this morning. :-[

Kidding aside, good luck in your efforts and keep us posted. It sounds like you are going to discover some good methods and gear along the way here. And I am interested in what you find because my younger son is 15 but he's around your weight and size so I'm always on the lookout for gear that will work for him. He's a bit taller but he's pretty skinny so he has a small waist size. We went with a *deuter SL* pack for him this summer. The SL is their slimmer women's model but it doesn't look like it all.


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## NancyP (Aug 27, 2014)

Yep. Time to start progressive length/elevation/weight training with the pack. I wouldn't mind gaining a few pounds of muscle and losing a few pounds of fat. 

Right now I just wish that the temperature and humidity would get below 90 degrees and 90 per cent. At this point, the only hiking I would want to do involves just a large hydration bladder and not much else.


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## RustyTheGeek (Aug 27, 2014)

NancyP said:


> Yep. Time to start progressive length/elevation/weight training with the pack. I wouldn't mind gaining a few pounds of muscle and losing a few pounds of fat.
> 
> Right now I just wish that the temperature and humidity would get below 90 degrees and 90 per cent. At this point, the only hiking I would want to do involves just a large hydration bladder and not much else.



Yes! When I'm training in May-June for the summer Philmont expedition in July, I'm in my hilly neighborhood sweating buckets carrying a heavy 60+ lb pack for 3+ miles every morning in the same hot/humid conditions. I'm drenched when I get home and it's hard to breath. But thinking about the dry+cooler climate in Cimmaron, New Mexico gives me motivation to keep going. Good luck with that training! Eat lots of protein! (BTW NancyP, what part of the country are you located in and where do you plan to hike on your trip(s)?)

And remember, the training isn't just about stength and stamina, it's about mental conditioning. You're also building confidence for the various challenges of the trail. Once you get to a certain point in your training, you reach a relative plateau where you can keep going for much longer distances over different terrain as long as you maintain the will to do so. The harder and more challenging your training, the less challenging the trail will be in comparison.


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## JPAZ (Aug 27, 2014)

I have learned a lot from this thread and appreciate everyone's input. I am soon leaving for another trip and after thinking about all the options, decided to stick with what I've used in the past. I have my Loka and my TT holster. I've searched for a good picture of how I arrange things but can't find the best. The photo below shows my straps with clips hanging off the shoulder straps that I suspend my holster off of so the camera is always ready for use. I keep the camera strap loosely around my neck for both safety and ability to use the camera quickly). In this particular photo, the holster is on the waist strap which is another option and which I did for a while while at a rest stop when it was quite hot (Trekking in Mustang in Nepal at about 12K altitude in the midday sun) . The only downside to suspending the holster in front of you is that it can affect a view of your feet. So, if the trail is particularly challenging, I'll swing the holster around to the back of the backpack or put it in the top compartment temporarily. My lenses are in the ICU of the Loka. But, there have been times when I've hung my telephoto zoom on the side of the pack in a Lowepro lens case or put it into the mesh holder (for water bottles) if I think I want quicker access. 

None of this is perfect,, but it works for me for now.


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## NancyP (Aug 27, 2014)

I am not going anywhere exotic, just to the Ozarks. I am from St. Louis, Misery. 99 degrees for the past 4 days, with very high humidity.


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## RustyTheGeek (Aug 27, 2014)

Yikes!


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## Don Haines (Aug 27, 2014)

Logan said:


> you are much better off using a proper backpack and putting your camera gear in it. or strap a small camera back to your backpack. you will not have a good time trying to pack weight in a camera bag. i just put my lenses in their soft cases in the lid of my gregory pack, and hang my camera in a dry-sack (brooks bag) off a shoulder strap, or on a capture clip if its dry out.
> 
> you arent going to get a hiking backpack on as carryon



+1

Get a real pack... a true backpacking pack.... No camera gear pack will ever be half as comfortable. If you start hanging sleeping bags, tents, sleeping pads off of your camera backpack you are introducing yourself into a walking hell.... the stuff will be unbalanced and will sway with every step. You will tire yourself out fighting with your load.

Get a monopod that you can use as a hiking pole... you will appreciate it for balance and it saves the knees when going down steep grades / rockhopping.....

Look at lightweight camping gear and leave all the crap gadgets at home... An awful lot of what people carry is useless... you would not believe the kitchen gadgets I have seen abandoned on trails  All you need for cooking is a small stove (I have an MSR Whisperlite), a small pot (1.5L titanium), a plastic cup, a spoon, a pair of chopsticks, and your swiss army knife... And dehydrate your food! Makes it lighter and easier to cook and burns less fuel... Get a lightweight tent/thermarest/down bag and 1 spare change of quick dry clothes and you are ready to go. If your pack weighs 10 kilos (before camera gear), you have too much stuff.

My favourite pack is still my Coastal Mountains backpack, still going strong after 25 years of use, a Lowepro holster bag for the camera/lens, and a betashell for the second lens.


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## NancyP (Aug 28, 2014)

I am even lighter and lazier when cooking. I hold my nose and use an Esbit cube on the Esbit fold-out trivet. I went on a stove buying spree to try some new things this fall. I bought a Caldera Cone (well-designed wind screen/ pot holder) sized for my ~1 L pasta pot, and threw in the alcohol stove as well (yes, I could buy some Fancy Feast and a hole punch...). And, for times when I want to actually cook with regulatable flame (car camping, for instance), a Kovea Spider isopropanol mix stove with remote canister, so the stove sits inside the Caldera Cone being nicely wind-shielded, and the fuel canister sits outside in the cold, maybe upside down. Plus, a cookbook and a how-to-dehydrate book.


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## RustyTheGeek (Aug 28, 2014)

I love the MSR Whisperlite and also my Snow Peak Canister Stove kit. We just do simple Mountain House Dehydrated meals for dinners. Trail Snacks during the day. And of course - *VIA Coffee* in the morning!


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## rowancastle (Aug 28, 2014)

I use betashell lens cases for my lenses while trekking - virtually indestructible and waterproof to 5m (with the 5 series cases). See the website here: www.betashell.com

Hope that helps.


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## RustyTheGeek (Aug 28, 2014)

Thanks *rowancastle*. The BetaShell cases are nifty, they have them at my local camera store. I think these would be ideal for an ocean, river or other kind of water/boat based trip. But unfortunately they almost weigh more than some lenses. IMHO, while the BetaShell cases are ultra tough, they are overkill for hiking because they take up a lot of extra space and they are simply too heavy, esp if you need more than one.


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## Don Haines (Aug 28, 2014)

RustyTheGeek said:


> Thanks *rowancastle*. The BetaShell cases are nifty, they have them at my local camera store. I think these would be ideal for an ocean, river or other kind of water/boat based trip. But unfortunately they almost weigh more than some lenses. IMHO, while the BetaShell cases are ultra tough, they are overkill for hiking because they take up a lot of extra space and they are simply too heavy, esp if you need more than one.


There are a few sizes that are available in a lightweight model.....


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## RustyTheGeek (Aug 28, 2014)

Don Haines said:


> RustyTheGeek said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks *rowancastle*. The BetaShell cases are nifty, they have them at my local camera store. I think these would be ideal for an ocean, river or other kind of water/boat based trip. But unfortunately they almost weigh more than some lenses. IMHO, while the BetaShell cases are ultra tough, they are overkill for hiking because they take up a lot of extra space and they are simply too heavy, esp if you need more than one.
> ...



Good to know! I'll check into it. For hiking I am more concerned about water sealing than crush/shock protection. A couple of Ziplocks and/or a good drybag fills that need fine around a basic lightweight soft case or wrap.


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## Bjorn Holmsen (Aug 28, 2014)

NancyP said:


> Bjorn, I looked at Mystery Ranch, but all of their current packs are quite heavy, 7 pounds or more, and I am a 115 pound novice backpacker. I have a heavy enough pack (Osprey Ariel 65) at 4.5 pounds. If one uses the "no more than 25% of body weight" as a pack weight limit, I truly should pick as light a pack as I can feel comfortable using. I think I got a good "beginner" pack, and I am going to just stuff wrapped lenses near the J shaped zipper into the main pack compartment. I can hitch a belt-type lens case onto the pack belt. Filters etc can live in the "brain". Tripod lashes onto the back.
> 
> You are likely a lot larger than I am, and can reasonably take a beefy pack. The external frame military packs or "hunter's backpacks" for hauling back carcasses are flexible but by necessity too heavy for me. Paradox Pack is the lightest weight of the external packs, and I could carry them, but these are specialty items, hard to find, more or less have to wait for them and order by mail.



Nancy, youare right about the Mystery Ranch being heavy; they are absolutely not perfect for everyone. For the military, they got to be tough.

The point with my post was more to point out that the best option for the camper may be to use light pouches for the camera gear and use them together with a normal rucksack, ANY rucksack that is suitable for your camping needs, and in the case of my K2 expedition I picked the Mystery Ranch Wolfpack, but I have some ten rucksacks to choose from, including one, Norwegian Norrona Para Ranger, which is even larger than the Wolf. 

Cheers

Bjorn


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## NancyP (Aug 28, 2014)

By the way, here's a handy use for a hiking pole. I use the "Lord V" support approach for handheld macro - grab a pole, one end planted in the ground, plus the camera with one hand, operate camera with the other hand. One reduces the movement possibilities considerably. The camera is focused by rocking the pole back or forward, fine framing achieved by adjusting camera angle by the pole-camera hand. Any stick will do for this maneuver, I have used fishing pole fork holder, monopod with tilt head loose and tripod ring loose, hiking pole, random stick. This method is suited to insects, who may not wait around while you set up a tripod.


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## dcm (Aug 31, 2014)

dcm said:


> NancyP said:
> 
> 
> > dcm, that is a nice simple solution. Does it shift and rattle any while walking with it?
> ...



The tube worked just fine today inside my 30L pack on a short shakedown hike (6.5 miles, 1500 ft elevation gain). I put it down the center of the pack with gear on both sides, then tightened the compression straps. No noise or movement that I could tell. A couple of thunderstorms passed over with brief downpours. I was able to stow everything pretty quickly and retrieve it after the storm passed. Even made a lens change on the summit just because.

Also tried the Peak Design Capture Pro and Leash for carrying on the trail. I'm pleased with the combo. The Capture Pro on my pack strap handled the M with either lens well. Easy to retrieve when I stopped for a photo op and easy to replace. The leash was nice to help steady the camera, for moving around during the photo op, and as a safety strap. I attached the leash to the clips that came with the Canon strap and think this change will be permanent since the leash is more flexible.


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## NancyP (Sep 4, 2014)

Thanks for the report, dcm.


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## Jamesy (Sep 30, 2014)

dcm said:


> I like your approach NancyP. I've been using Gregory Z30 and Z45 packs for my hiking/fishing/photography trips and recommend this approach to others. The challenge has been how to carry the camera gear in/on the pack.
> 
> I'm going to try a new approach on my weekend trips this fall. I carried my M/22 last year and that makes a nice minimum carry, but I missed the wide/telephoto I got carrying my 6D/17-40/70-200f4/1.4x combo. I picked up the EF-M 11-22 earlier this year and recently added the EF-M 55-200. The M combo (1080g) is less than half the 6D combo (2455g). My existing collection of bags and cases didn't fit these well (with a few extra batteries and CPLs). While getting an aluminum tube made for a pair of new fly rods, I decided to try a rod tube for my camera gear. They all slide nicely into a 3" paper mailing tube so I had a 15" long rod tube made, brass caps with an O-ring seal to handle the typical afternoon showers in the Rockies. Weighs less than a pound (400g) while the gear inside weighs more than twice that. My wife stitched up a few bags from some extra lens cleaning cloths to provide protection inside the tube and I added velcro tabs to close them. This looks like the smallest and strongest solution possible with little wasted space. Initial tests look promising, sits nicely in the pack or an outer pocket.


The bags your wife made you look great! I have been looking for something like them for a while if anyone knows where to purchase something similar.

I got one recently with my EZO battery charger and two LP12 batteries for the M and now I use it to carry the M with 22mm mounted - very compact and it protects the surroundings as much as the camera itself when stuffed in a backpack.


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