# Major Canon announcements in February and May of this year [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 20, 2020)

> We reported earlier that there were two new EOS bodies coming in the first half of 2020. We have no been told to expect those announcements to occur in February and May of 2020.
> We were also told to expect the EOS RS (High-megapixel) body to come first, with an “unknown type of body” in May.
> Another source has said it won’t be the EOS R Mark II in the first half, but a lower megapixel body to “rival the A7 S line”. We have been unable to confirm this with more than one person at this time.
> More to come a bit later today.



Continue reading...


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## Gazwas (Jan 20, 2020)

If the assumption is a launch for CP+ which is 27th February, what is Canon's history with release protocol? Are announcements made at the show or the days, weeks before the show?


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## DannyPwins (Jan 20, 2020)

Just picked up an EOS R with 24-105 for $1200. Couldn’t pass on that deal. Looking forward to the MkII or a pro R body.


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## peters (Jan 20, 2020)

Nice. Just give me a decent EOS R S and I will ditch my Sony A7R IV in a heartbeat 
All I want: 
- Usable 4k mode - if necessary only on APS-C, but not this 1,8 crop mode shit.
- Dual Card Slots
- more than 50mpixel and more than 5 fps.


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## HaroldC3 (Jan 20, 2020)

DannyPwins said:


> Just picked up an EOS R with 24-105 for $1200. Couldn’t pass on that deal. Looking forward to the MkII or a pro R body.


Did you get it used or from a retailer? Heck of a deal.


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## ordinaryfilmmaker (Jan 20, 2020)

Hmmm. The Canon a7S III... that could go over very well...


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## mjg79 (Jan 20, 2020)

It will be fascinating to see as I think it will give a good indication of the line up Canon is aiming for with the RF mount. A question we can't yet answer is whether they will essentially replicate the EF line up, which has been quite stable for years now, or try something different.

The R was in many respects somewhere between a 6D and 5D. Was this because it was the first? Or is this the new direction? I think going forward that Canon might have to, rather like Nikon did with the D700/800/850, accept a smaller camera also being top level quality. Canon has traditionally kept the 5D just a bit below the 1D - often small things like the viewfinder cover being built in on the 1D and that flimsy bit of rubber for the 5D. With the size and quality advantages of mirrorless I suspect this connection between size and quality will disappear.

So we might have the R as the jack of all trades. The RP as the low price consumer body. Then maybe an RS as a higher spec, higher megapixel body aimed at landscape use. And eventually an RX for sports etc. That would make for a nice clean line up. In time one could imagine the R and RS then merging as both Nikon and Sony push ahead with combining high fps, good AF and high resolution, it might not be feasible long term for Canon to segment the market like that.

I am convinced Canon took the right approach. Top quality, wonderfully engineered 2.8 zooms covering 15-200mm, all stabilised, a couple of 1.2 primes, a 24-240 and a 24-105/4 and finally a stabilised, small, light 35/1.8. Right there that could cover like 90% of most uses. Now Canon can bring out the better bodies and start bringing out more unusual and specialist lenses while the really exotic stuff like tilt-shift lenses will remain EF mount for years.

A few other things I wonder about are:

Will there be an APS-C RF mount camera? Years ago it made sense, people upgraded gradually through the system. But nowadays I think this is fairly limited to birders using cameras like the D500 and full frame glass etc. With higher and higher resolution full frame sensors Canon might decide to really go for Ef-M as their consumer mount as it allows for really tiny cameras which matters a great deal for consumers. I think on internet boards it is vastly overstated how many people actually use both full frame and crop and want to put full frame lenses on crop cameras.

Will there be IBIS in the coming years? I would love it, like many here, for adapting lots of old lenses. But since Canon put IS in all of the 2.8 zooms I am far from sure they will go down this route just yet. Chances are they would rather we buy the new RF 24-70 rather than adapt the EF version!

In the EF mount, does anyone know if Canon actually cooperated with Zeiss for the ZE lenses and Voigtlander for their EF mount glass? I remain a bit jealous of the amazing glass that Voigtlander is putting out for Sony's FE mount and would love to have some of those options for RF. Unless Canon is planning to make a manual focus 40mm 1.2 (haha)) why not let Voigtlander produce it for RF?


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## Tom W (Jan 20, 2020)

mjg79 said:


> ...Will there be an APS-C RF mount camera? Years ago it made sense, people upgraded gradually through the system. But nowadays I think this is fairly limited to birders using cameras like the D500 and full frame glass etc. With higher and higher resolution full frame sensors Canon might decide to really go for Ef-M as their consumer mount as it allows for really tiny cameras which matters a great deal for consumers. I think on internet boards it is vastly overstated how many people actually use both full frame and crop and want to put full frame lenses on crop cameras...



That's a good question. From the "birder" point of view, I think it's the pixel density that is paramount, rather than the "crop factor". My M6 II can put a lot more pixels on a Blue Jay than my 5D4 can at equal distance with the same lens, but the 5D4 does a better job with high-ISO. And if that Blue Jay is in the deep shadows of the woods, then it's the 5D4 that wins that battle. However, the ISO difference isn't but a stop to a stop and a half, so just getting an extra stop through the lens by NOT using a teleconverter helps a great deal.

I did some side-by-side between the M6 II and 5D4, with the 1.4X added on the 5D4 shots vs. the bare 500/4 lens on the M6 II. Fairly comparable in terms of noise, though I didn't get too extreme with the ISO. I'd say that it still slightly favors the 5D4, but the ability to avoid needing the 1.4X is something to think about too.

Can't say a lot about the tracking of the little M6 II, as I haven't has much experience with that aspect of its operation yet.

Getting that kind of pixel density doesn't require a crop sensor, though getting enough speed to handle uncropped 4K may be a different story. But that's a different subject.


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## gouldopfl (Jan 20, 2020)

Gazwas said:


> If the assumption is a launch for CP+ which is 27th February, what is Canon's history with release protocol? Are announcements made at the show or the days, weeks before the show?


They will announce usually before the show.


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## mpb001 (Jan 20, 2020)

There was a migration from Canon to Sony for those who thought Sony was the best. While their sensors are excellent, I never liked the feel of their camera bodies I am a stayer as far as Canon goes for many reasons and probably why many pros stay with them.

Now, in 2020, many of the Sony people will likely move back to Canon with these true high end pro R mirrorless bodies with likely IBIS and new sensors on top of their already stellar and growing RF lenses.

That said though, even the best camera and sensor will only go so far in getting that great shot. That still lies in the mind and capabilities of the photographer.


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## mjg79 (Jan 20, 2020)

Tom W said:


> That's a good question. From the "birder" point of view, I think it's the pixel density that is paramount, rather than the "crop factor". My M6 II can put a lot more pixels on a Blue Jay than my 5D4 can at equal distance with the same lens, but the 5D4 does a better job with high-ISO. And if that Blue Jay is in the deep shadows of the woods, then it's the 5D4 that wins that battle. However, the ISO difference isn't but a stop to a stop and a half, so just getting an extra stop through the lens by NOT using a teleconverter helps a great deal.
> 
> I did some side-by-side between the M6 II and 5D4, with the 1.4X added on the 5D4 shots vs. the bare 500/4 lens on the M6 II. Fairly comparable in terms of noise, though I didn't get too extreme with the ISO. I'd say that it still slightly favors the 5D4, but the ability to avoid needing the 1.4X is something to think about too.
> 
> ...



Yes that all sounds reasonable. I suppose I feel though more and more birders will continue to move to full frame. If we get 60 then 70 megapixel bodies to allow cropping I think the allure of that will be hard to resist. The problems around frame rates etc with the high resolutions are being solved day by day with the advances in computing - look at the A7R IV from Sony.

I might have got this totally wrong. Thom Hogan, a man I respect, seems quite obsessed with the idea Canon has made a huge mistake having Ef-m and RF mounts rather than just one. But I really think that is the 2000-2010 mindset, when even early crop cameras cost a fortune, you got into the system and then worked your way up and bought a high level crop the matched up a great white prime. I just don't see that pattern continuing, even if a small number find it useful, as full frame resolutions improve.

The advantage of Ef-m is how small the mount is - perfectly sized for crop. Until I held an M5 I didn't appreciate it and immediately bought it. When travelling for work it plus a couple of the really tiny lenses is wonderful to take. Whether it was the right business decision time will tell, Nikon obviously is going the other way. If camera manufacturers want to have a future in consumer cameras though they are competing against smartphones so I think size will matter more and more.


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## mjg79 (Jan 20, 2020)

DannyPwins said:


> Just picked up an EOS R with 24-105 for $1200. Couldn’t pass on that deal. Looking forward to the MkII or a pro R body.



I hope you enjoy it. I was dubious about the R but having bought one I love it and the lenses are wonderful.

My advice would be to take a bit of time to set it up. The Touch Bar can be customised a great deal and I've come to enjoy using it. Most buttons can be remapped. Assuming you're coming from an SLR it might take a bit of time to get your mind dialled in to it but once set up I find it as easy to use and as intuitive as the 5D. Remember you can use the touchscreen as a replacement for the joystick and the control ring on the lens to replace the back main dial (or anything else).

If you find a good deal on it and you like grips I strongly recommend the battery grip - it really makes it a pleasure to use, especially if adapting any larger EF glass.

Oh and perhaps obvious but make sure you're on the latest firmware - Canon has really improved the camera enormously from the earlier firmware. I never thought I would have that to say about Canon!


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## Ozarker (Jan 20, 2020)

This is gonna be so much fun! Can't wait to see what Canon does.


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## -pekr- (Jan 20, 2020)

Canon, specialist in release of cameras I don't want. Well, it's going to be a long wait then :-( I want a 5DIV successor, not more than 40 mpx, not less than what we've got with the 5DIV. I expect both speculated cameras to not fill the bill for us, wedding photogs.


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## Aaron D (Jan 20, 2020)

mpb001 said:


> That said though, even the best camera and sensor will only go so far in getting that great shot. That still lies in the mind and capabilities of the photographer.



What?!


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## mjg79 (Jan 20, 2020)

mpb001 said:


> There was a migration from Canon to Sony for those who thought Sony was the best. While their sensors are excellent, I never liked the feel of their camera bodies I am a stayer as far as Canon goes for many reasons and probably why many pros stay with them.
> 
> Now, in 2020, many of the Sony people will likely move back to Canon with these true high end pro R mirrorless bodies with likely IBIS and new sensors on top of their already stellar and growing RF lenses.
> 
> That said though, even the best camera and sensor will only go so far in getting that great shot. That still lies in the mind and capabilities of the photographer.



Your last part is always worth remembering - the best photographer I know uses a 5D III and lots of quite beaten up ZE lenses. You could give me a 1000 mp RSX Mark 12 and I still wouldn't make as good photos.

I think Canon took the right approach going for the 2.8 zooms and 1.2 primes first but I am most looking forward to hopefully some very small but high quality f/4 zooms (the Nikon 14-30/4 shows what mirrorless can do for wide angles in particular) and 1.8 primes and therefore taking my camera gear further on hikes etc so in that sense the gear can help.

I dabbled with a Sony body, adapted Canon lenses to it via metabones. The sensor tech is excellent, no point denying it. The eye-AF is great too and IBIS is nice with old lenses. Like many I disliked the ergonomics. But what killed it for me was buying a few Sony lenses and finding them wildly decentered. Admittedly I bought the ZA 35/1.4 which is notorious for appalling quality control - tried 3 copies in the end as it has a lovely rendering but for the money I couldn't accept such a badly built lens (plus I was used to the tank-like 35L II). Had a similar situation with the 16-35 GM - couldn't find a copy that worked well beyond 28mm. I actually had a great copy of the 55/1.8 and then also picked up the Loxia 21 but by them my patience with Sony had been exhausted and I decided to just stick with Canon for their quality long term. For landscapes the Sony with Loxia or Voigtlander glass is pretty amazing though.


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## mclaren777 (Jan 20, 2020)

This news is somewhat concerning.

I was really hoping that all of the mirrorless cameras would be announced in the first half of 2020 so Canon would have more space in the back half for announcing the 5D5.


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## Josh Leavitt (Jan 20, 2020)

The Sony A7 S rival model sounds pretty interesting. I've been hoping Canon would give us a video-centric camera for a while now. There's a lot of potential market share to be gained here among the filmmaker and content creator crowd. Canon has a leg up on there competitors when it comes to RF glass and the peerless dual pixel AF system their cameras use.

Things I would expect and like to see for such a camera are: unlimited record times, dual UHS-II card slots, headphone & mic jack, dual gain sensor, fully articulating touchscreen, uncropped full-frame recording with DPAF functionality, C-Log profiles, on par recording modes/options of the Panasonic S1H, and IBIS (of course).


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## mjg79 (Jan 20, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> Canon, specialist in release of cameras I don't want. Well, it's going to be a long wait then :-( I want a 5DIV successor, not more than 40 mpx, not less than what we've got with the 5DIV. I expect both speculated cameras to not fill the bill for us, wedding photogs.



Well Canon has taken that approach for decades now - they make the best glass and then make sure you are always left wanting to buy another body! Leica is even more extreme in that regard.

In fairness to Canon when Sony tried the opposite approach from like 2008-2012 it failed completely. 

Nikon was perhaps the most "balanced" in their approach of top end glass with feature-rich bodies but over the past several years have pushed more and more into making lenses cheap in China that can't be easily repaired etc. which is a pity really. A friend of mine bought the Nikon 35/1.4G some years back, it's actually a quite beautiful lens. Recently it was damaged and he was shocked that the repair shop told him that the lens allowed almost no adjustment and a large part of the optics simply have to be swapped out. And that is a made in Japan lens from a decade ago before the real cost cutting started. I dread to think what happens when the little motor on the (optically wonderful) Nikon 105/1.4 gives up the ghost or an element gets tilted etc.

So while I get the feeling that the grass is greener and Canon could just give us a "perfect" body, remember we are still getting damn near perfect lenses which in the long run is what matters most I think, made in Japan, repairable, engineered better than anyone else.


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## IcyBergs (Jan 20, 2020)

Really hoping the latter part of this rumor is wrong and the body announced in May is indeed the R mark 2.


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## unfocused (Jan 20, 2020)

mclaren777 said:


> I was really hoping that all of the mirrorless cameras would be announced in the first half of 2020 so Canon would have more space in the back half for announcing the 5D5.



What makes you think “unknown type of body” in May isn't a 5D V?


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## sanj (Jan 20, 2020)

I wait for 'bit later today'. Thanks.


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## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (Jan 20, 2020)

mjg79 said:


> I hope you enjoy it. I was dubious about the R but having bought one I love it and the lenses are wonderful.



Tony Northrup seemed partly dubious, autumn 2018. Recently he released a video about transition to EOS R for video. Interesting how entanglement in specs got so many people to lose track of some simple practices. Unfortunately, content posters like Polin and Northrup have put themselves in a position where they can't wait a half year to utter a more well rounded opinion.

PS .. in the video, I think Northrup set things up intentionally for demo purpose. Later into the video it changes as the narrative continues.

At 2:51 is where he reveals the camera being used.


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## tron (Jan 20, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> Canon, specialist in release of cameras I don't want. Well, it's going to be a long wait then :-( I want a 5DIV successor, not more than 40 mpx, not less than what we've got with the 5DIV. I expect both speculated cameras to not fill the bill for us, wedding photogs.


I believe your wish will be fullfilled in the same way Nikon made the D780 the same megapixels as D750. 30Mpixels are enough and at the same time they have better low light performance than a camera with higher density. At the same time there will be a Rs with a lot of megapixels that Canon will not wish to have an internal competition. 

Personally I would like the same as you. For low light and general purpose 5DIV is fantastic. It balances many aspects (Mpixels, speed, low light performance) quite well.


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## JPAZ (Jan 20, 2020)

Would really like to go 100% mirrorless. Anxious to see what Canon can do to make me sell my 5Div. Rx with 2 slots and better EVF refresh rate? 

I'll hang on to my EF stable of lenses for now. They work well on the RP with adapter.


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## Canon1966 (Jan 20, 2020)

DannyPwins said:


> Just picked up an EOS R with 24-105 for $1200. Couldn’t pass on that deal. Looking forward to the MkII or a pro R body.


 That's a super deal! Where?


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## Canon1966 (Jan 20, 2020)

I want a Canon body to blow away Sony A7RIV.


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## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (Jan 20, 2020)

Canon1966 said:


> I want a Canon body to blow away Sony A7RIV.



It was released. It's called the 1DX mk iii. A workhorse so durable that I don't think Sony has anything comparable to. Although, even the pro grade construction of the 1DX mk ii we much better too for actual total build. The 1DX mk iii has reams of features I'd never need, but it's understandable why so many photographers stick with the 1DX line. The weight is reasonable too. I've heard some make rediculous comments like "arms falling off" at the end of the day, but I use a chainsaw often, and the 1DX bodies are "light as a feather" by comparison.

This woman seems to have no problem using a 1DX mk iii in the field.


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## VICYASA (Jan 20, 2020)

DannyPwins said:


> Just picked up an EOS R with 24-105 for $1200. Couldn’t pass on that deal. Looking forward to the MkII or a pro R body.


WHERE??? I NEED THAT DEAL!!!


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## -pekr- (Jan 20, 2020)

tron said:


> I believe your wish will be fullfilled in the same way Nikon made the D780 the same megapixels as D750. 30Mpixels are enough and at the same time they have better low light performance than a camera with higher density. At the same time there will be a Rs with a lot of megapixels that Canon will not wish to have an internal competition.
> 
> Personally I would like the same as you. For low light and general purpose 5DIV is fantastic. It balances many aspects (Mpixels, speed, low light performance) quite well.



But the rumour speculates about the Sony A7S, which is just 12mpx. Maybe they are going to use sensor from 1DX III, which is 20mpx? Dunno, but would not like to go lower than 24-28 mpx.


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## slclick (Jan 20, 2020)

VICYASA said:


> WHERE??? I NEED THAT DEAL!!!


First thing that comes to my mind is that it wouldn't be new and/or in USD.


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## Architect1776 (Jan 20, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...



What would a 32 MP crop translate to in a FF sensor with the same size and density of pixels?
Thank you.


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## Ozarker (Jan 20, 2020)

Canon1966 said:


> That's a super deal! Where?


If new... Disneyland sells them in Fantasyland.


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## jjj120 (Jan 20, 2020)

So the announcements could be for cp+ in february and for fotokina in may. Right?


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## keithcooper (Jan 20, 2020)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> Tony Northrup seemed partly dubious, autumn 2018. Recently he released a video about transition to EOS R for video. Interesting how entanglement in specs got so many people to lose track of some simple practices. Unfortunately, content posters like Polin and Northrup have put themselves in a position where they can't wait a half year to utter a more well rounded opinion.
> 
> PS .. in the video, I think Northrup set things up intentionally for demo purpose. Later into the video it changes as the narrative continues.
> 
> At 2:51 is where he reveals the camera being used.


Yeah, but this is the 2020 version of Ken Rockwell™ we're talking about... ;-)


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## Gazwas (Jan 20, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> Canon, specialist in release of cameras I don't want. Well, it's going to be a long wait then :-( I want a 5DIV successor, not more than 40 mpx, not less than what we've got with the 5DIV. I expect both speculated cameras to not fill the bill for us, wedding photogs.


From my perspective wedding photographers have been very well served by Canon over recent years and the market areas Sony has stepped into that need the most attention.


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## Chaitanya (Jan 20, 2020)

Along with new bodies(hopefully a mirrorless 5D and 7D) I am waiting for macro lenses for RF mount to arrive(most probably will be 100mm to start off) with 180mm macro being on top of list.


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## tron (Jan 20, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> But the rumour speculates about the Sony A7S, which is just 12mpx. Maybe they are going to use sensor from 1DX III, which is 20mpx? Dunno, but would not like to go lower than 24-28 mpx.


I was talking about 5DV since you said the successor of 5DIV. If you meant mirrorless this will happen eventually with EOS R II just maybe not now but in a year more or less. If the rumors are true I guess Canon are trying to cover all cases from lowest to highest mpixels. If you really meant 5DV then in both previous cases 1DX/5D3 and 1DXII/5D4 the announcements were within 6 months more or less If I recall correctly. So I cannot think 1DXIII/5DV announcements would be much different.


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## slclick (Jan 20, 2020)

My personal purchasing philosophy for 2020 (PPP) If Canon doesn't make very close to the body I am seeking to replace or complement my 5D3, I will put my camera budget into glass. Good Canon lenses. Therefore when the body does arrive, it will be well matched. No stop gaps. Done those, sold those.


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## ved112dei (Jan 20, 2020)

Video Centric camera from canon, now that's interesting can't wait to see what Canon bring to counter Sony A7S series


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## tron (Jan 20, 2020)

I have already bought RF 15-35 amd RF 24-70 to keep company to my RF 24-105 and RF 35 bought with an R body during Black Friday offers. I am almost done for 2020 (but I am not 100% sure for this! Its just January )

EDIT: The two 2.8 L zooms negate somehow the small size and weight of EOS R though. I guess physics cannot be bypassed


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## tron (Jan 20, 2020)

ved112dei said:


> Video Centric camera from canon, now that's interesting can't wait to see what Canon bring to counter Sony A7S series


Would I be the only one to use this camera for low light still shooting and no video?


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## bergstrom (Jan 20, 2020)

ef mount please


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## tron (Jan 20, 2020)

bergstrom said:


> ef mount please


Talking about camera or lenses?


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## jedy (Jan 20, 2020)

Canon1966 said:


> I want a Canon body to blow away Sony A7RIV.


What a silly fanboy comment. Canon certainly need to bring out a decent camera to match the high quality, expensive lenses they have. One thing is for sure, Canon need to get their pricing right. The EOS R is currently (here in the UK) £395 more expensive than the A7III, which has had a price drop (and there’s a cashback offer until the end of this month) and offers less for your money (also including lens choices). The A7RIV competitor needs to be better than it in terms of specs plus should be around the same price. If they release another camera that offers less for more money, Canon will surely lose out on vital sales. As it is, the current lens lineup, limited to expensive L lenses will put plenty off for now. Let’s hope they deliver a decent camera, at least. We can all speculate but only time will tell though.


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## Canon1966 (Jan 20, 2020)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> It was released. It's called the 1DX mk iii. A workhorse so durable that I don't think Sony has anything comparable to. Although, even the pro grade construction of the 1DX mk ii we much better too for actual total build. The 1DX mk iii has reams of features I'd never need, but it's understandable why so many photographers stick with the 1DX line. The weight is reasonable too. I've heard some make rediculous comments like "arms falling off" at the end of the day, but I use a chainsaw often, and the 1DX bodies are "light as a feather" by comparison.
> 
> This woman seems to have no problem using a 1DX mk iii in the field.


 I like weight to a camera to be honest.


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## mjg79 (Jan 20, 2020)

Canon1966 said:


> I like weight to a camera to be honest.



That's something that many people online miss. A huge amount of wildlife and sports photography uses nothing shorter than 300mm 2.8 lenses and usually much longer. I've tried using the Sonys with adapted great whites - it is incredibly unbalanced. Even the 5D can feel a bit unbalanced.

Of course for "vloggers", hikers and travel photography then small and light is an advantage but for many serious applications the larger size and weight of the 1D line makes perfect sense.


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## mjg79 (Jan 20, 2020)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> Tony Northrup seemed partly dubious, autumn 2018. Recently he released a video about transition to EOS R for video. Interesting how entanglement in specs got so many people to lose track of some simple practices. Unfortunately, content posters like Polin and Northrup have put themselves in a position where they can't wait a half year to utter a more well rounded opinion.
> 
> PS .. in the video, I think Northrup set things up intentionally for demo purpose. Later into the video it changes as the narrative continues.
> 
> At 2:51 is where he reveals the camera being used.



You're right that people got too swayed by the specs. What threw me at first was that I was expecting something with the same controls as the SLR line up and I was surprised, dismayed even, that Canon had gone a different route. But whatever one might otherwise criticise Canon for, they know ergonomics. And I found the touch screen is so good that it really does work as a pretty effective replacement for the joystick. Also I hadn't realised how useful having the control ring would be, effectively adding another dial to the body. The camera feels lovely to hold and I think once we get some less "extreme" lenses, some more f/1.8 primes and f/4 zooms, it will offer a very balanced package.

I know many criticise him but Northrup isn't too bad as "internet reviewers" go and I am not surprised that he came round to understand the R system. Moreover he grasps that lenses are important and Canon has been hitting home run after home run on that score with the RF lenses. Polin, while I kind of admire the way he has carved a career out of a zany persona, I don't really pay attention to as the whole "you're not a pro without a 2.8 zoom" line just gets tedious. He can be funny at times but is too abrasive. He was in the last generation of photographers who could graduate with film, get regular work for average output and I believe he got lucky with being hired to photograph some bands - hence his obsession with fast lenses and extreme wide angles - zoom out to 12mm, put the end of the guitar in focus, make it black and white and you have your "art". As I said, I sincerely admire the fact he has managed to transition to another career but I wouldn't lend any weight to his reviews - it doesn't shock me one bit if he doesn't like the R.


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## Ozarker (Jan 20, 2020)

jedy said:


> What a silly fanboy comment. Canon certainly need to bring out a decent camera to match the high quality, expensive lenses they have. One thing is for sure, Canon need to get their pricing right. The EOS R is currently £395 (here in the UK) more expensive than the A7III, which has had a price drop (and there’s a cashback offer until the end of this month) and offers less for your money (also including lens choices). The A7RIV competitor needs to be better it in terms of specs plus should be around the same price. If they release another camera that offers less for more money, Canon will surely lose out on vital sales. As it is, the current lens lineup, limited to expensive L lenses will put plenty off for now. Let’s hope they deliver a decent camera, at least. We can all speculate but only time will tell though.


And one gets the built in buffalo skin tones with the Sony. Canon can't hope to ever top that.


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## Jasonmc89 (Jan 20, 2020)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> It was released. It's called the 1DX mk iii. A workhorse so durable that I don't think Sony has anything comparable to. Although, even the pro grade construction of the 1DX mk ii we much better too for actual total build. The 1DX mk iii has reams of features I'd never need, but it's understandable why so many photographers stick with the 1DX line. The weight is reasonable too. I've heard some make rediculous comments like "arms falling off" at the end of the day, but I use a chainsaw often, and the 1DX bodies are "light as a feather" by comparison.
> 
> This woman seems to have no problem using a 1DX mk iii in the field.


Awesome video.


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## DannyPwins (Jan 20, 2020)

HaroldC3 said:


> Did you get it used or from a retailer? Heck of a deal.


Used like new. The seller was desperate for cash. I usually wait til January to get some deals.


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## john1970 (Jan 20, 2020)

I think everyone needs to realize that Canon and Sony both make excellent equipment for photography. I have used Canon 1Dx Mk2 with their 400 mm f2.8 III lenses as well as Sony A9 II with a vertical grip along with their 400 mm f2.8 lens. Both take excellent pictures and for me both balance well in the hand. Without a vertical grip the Sony alpha cameras are uncomfortable for me to use, but adding the vertical grip solves that issue at least for me. Personally, I like the fact that the a9II with vertical grip weighs 1+ lb less than 1Dx Mk2. At least for me as I get older any loss of mass is appreciated.


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## slclick (Jan 20, 2020)

jedy said:


> What a silly fanboy comment. Canon certainly need to bring out a decent camera to match the high quality, expensive lenses they have. One thing is for sure, Canon need to get their pricing right. The EOS R is currently £395 (here in the UK) more expensive than the A7III, which has had a price drop (and there’s a cashback offer until the end of this month) and offers less for your money (also including lens choices). The A7RIV competitor needs to be better it in terms of specs plus should be around the same price. If they release another camera that offers less for more money, Canon will surely lose out on vital sales. As it is, the current lens lineup, limited to expensive L lenses will put plenty off for now. Let’s hope they deliver a decent camera, at least. We can all speculate but only time will tell though.


I think you left out the '1' before the 395


----------



## amorse (Jan 20, 2020)

Honestly, I'm a bit surprised by a7s note - I have a hard time believing that one. 

I feel like if Canon did decide to create such a body, it may not touch on the needs of those clamouring for it for one reason or another. I mean, Canon does have a very well rounded video platform in their cinema cameras but they may not suit the needs of many asking for improved video features in mirrorless bodies due to ether price/size/weight/need for hybrid use etc. The best example of a product that could fit this niche previously made by Canon would be the 1DC, but even there the price was well above and beyond that of all other Canon DSLRs in the lineup. Wasn't it $15,000 USD on release in 2012?

This isn't to say it's not going to happen, but if Canon creates a mirrorless body with incredible low-light video performance in a hybrid shooting form factor, I can't see it being a low-price body and I wonder how many potential buyers would remain. I guess between all the rumours proposed in this article, the a7s competitor seems lowest probability on my betting list. But then again, I've been wrong before and I will be wrong again!


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## privatebydesign (Jan 20, 2020)

Architect1776 said:


> What would a 32 MP crop translate to in a FF sensor with the same size and density of pixels?
> Thank you.


Crop sensor = 22.30mm X 14.90mm = 332mm ²
FF sensor = 35.8mm x 23.9mm = 856 mm²

856/332 = 2.58

32 X 2.58 = 82.56

A FF sensor with the same pixel size/density as a 32mp crop sensor would be 82.56mp.


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## privatebydesign (Jan 20, 2020)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> It was released. It's called the 1DX mk iii.



I don't see a single crossover point for the two cameras. It's like saying the Nikon D6 is Nikons answer to the 5Dsr (or more relevantly the high megapixel R mount camera rumor).

Compare the A9 II and the 1DX III, but be honest, Canon do not sell a modern camera in the A7R IV market segment yet. That would be the rumored high MP R, or the 5DSr replacement.


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## bluenoser1993 (Jan 20, 2020)

mjg79 said:


> I hope you enjoy it. I was dubious about the R but having bought one I love it and the lenses are wonderful.
> 
> My advice would be to take a bit of time to set it up. The Touch Bar can be customised a great deal and I've come to enjoy using it. Most buttons can be remapped. Assuming you're coming from an SLR it might take a bit of time to get your mind dialled in to it but once set up I find it as easy to use and as intuitive as the 5D. Remember you can use the touchscreen as a replacement for the joystick and the control ring on the lens to replace the back main dial (or anything else).
> 
> ...


Anyone want to speculate whether or not the new R bodies will use the BG-E22 grip, or a new grip model? I've gotten to the point of wanting a grip, but reluctant to order from the USA at $250 (order from USA because it's $600 in Canada), only to have it worth less than $100 when the R is replaced in the lineup later this year maybe.


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## Laslen (Jan 20, 2020)

We need a competitor for the A9 series. Considering the A9/A9II specs, and being $2000 less than the 1DX, it is extremely tempting for wildlife and sports. I must admit I was tempted until I tested out some of Sony's G and GM lenses, and frankly they're awful.

A low-light RF would be interesting, but I feel there's a stronger need right now for one that is designed for sports and wildlife.


----------



## slclick (Jan 20, 2020)

bluenoser1993 said:


> Anyone want to speculate whether or not the new R bodies will use the BG-E22 grip, or a new grip model? I've gotten to the point of wanting a grip, but reluctant to order from the USA at $250 (order from USA because it's $600 in Canada), only to have it worth less than $100 when the R is replaced in the lineup later this year maybe.


An L Plate is my dual purpose small body enlarger!


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## Drcampbellicu (Jan 20, 2020)

yes and no
Birders who have rigs setup wont complain about the 1dx and big whites

But most birders don’t like weight 
They have to fly to their destination with it and sometimes you don’t have porters and hence have to carry your gear long distances
size is also a negative
I do a lot of scuba photography and that entire field is going mirrorless because the housing for a 1dx is massive because the camera is already large

I think the best word is balance with nature photography. Sony is a bit too small but the 1dx is a bit too large. The 7d was very popular for many reasons 



mjg79 said:


> That's something that many people online miss. A huge amount of wildlife and sports photography uses nothing shorter than 300mm 2.8 lenses and usually much longer. I've tried using the Sonys with adapted great whites - it is incredibly unbalanced. Even the 5D can feel a bit unbalanced.
> 
> Of course for "vloggers", hikers and travel photography then small and light is an advantage but for many serious applications the larger size and weight of the 1D line makes perfect sense.


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## privatebydesign (Jan 20, 2020)

Laslen said:


> We need a competitor for the A9 series. Considering the A9/A9II specs, and being $2000 less than the 1DX, it is extremely tempting for wildlife and sports. I must admit I was tempted until I tested out some of Sony's G and GM lenses, and frankly they're awful.
> 
> A low-light RF would be interesting, but I feel there's a stronger need right now for one that is designed for sports and wildlife.


Well I think you will find that is Canon's point, they (and nobody else) can make a sports orientated camera system better than a DSLR yet so they aren't bothering. 

Now I know sports pros who sold their 1DX II's for A9's and are happy, but the majority are not there yet. Personally I have yet to use an EVF I can look through for hours without feeling queasy due to the lag, but I'm sure that is probably just me and the fact that I have been looking through an OVF for the last 42 years.


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## privatebydesign (Jan 20, 2020)

bluenoser1993 said:


> Anyone want to speculate whether or not the new R bodies will use the BG-E22 grip, or a new grip model? I've gotten to the point of wanting a grip, but reluctant to order from the USA at $250 (order from USA because it's $600 in Canada), only to have it worth less than $100 when the R is replaced in the lineup later this year maybe.


Canon always (I believe) bring out a new grip for each body, it is a sure fire money maker for them so why would they change that?


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## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (Jan 20, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Canon always (I believe) bring out a new grip for each body, it is a sure fire money maker for them so why would they change that?


Maybe it's worth waiting.

Seems that B&H and another were bundling a grip with the EOS R last year a couple times for a good price.


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## jazzytune (Jan 20, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Canon always (I believe) bring out a new grip for each body, it is a sure fire money maker for them so why would they change that?


Well, this is true for certain models. I think for the entry level crop sensor DSLRs, Canon maintain the same battery grip for t2i (550D) to t5i (700D). It really depends on how different the camera body is from the previous version I suppose...


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## keithcooper (Jan 20, 2020)

bergstrom said:


> ef mount please


Seriously?
I've not seen anything from Canon to suggest anything other than they want people to buy RF lenses and if not, then an adapter per EF lens owned ;-)

They may not say it, but I'd be very surprised if anything new is coming in EF mount other than a few last-gasp updates for a few DSLR lines.

Sure, you -could- make an EF mount mirrorless, but why? It's a tad like me wanting a full frame digital version of my OM4 to go with my old Zuiko lenses... ;-)


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## Ozarker (Jan 20, 2020)

keithcooper said:


> Seriously?
> I've not seen anything from Canon to suggest anything other than they want people to buy RF lenses and if not, then an adapter per EF lens owned ;-)
> 
> They may not say it, but I'd be very surprised if anything new is coming in EF mount other than a few last-gasp updates for a few DSLR lines.
> ...


Who would buy an adapter per EF lens owned? Don’t think this is Canon’s strategy at all when one will do.


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## keithcooper (Jan 20, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Who would buy an adapter per EF lens owned? Don’t think this is Canon’s strategy at all when one will do.


People with more money than sense ;-)
There's no shortage of them in photography... ;-) ;-)


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## Jonathan Thill (Jan 20, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Who would buy an adapter per EF lens owned? Don’t think this is Canon’s strategy at all when one will do.


I have dedicated adapters for each EF lens I own and keep them attached at all times.

It all started with getting 1 with the EOS R Kit for "free" 1 with the RP Kit for 'free" and bought 3 more for dirt cheap off of craigslist.

That said I agree for most people 1 is more then enough.

My plan is to ditch them all together as RF Glass fills my needs. Biggest "need" right now is replacements for my 100-400's. The rumored 70-400 sounds like a winner.

Edit: 

*"People with more money than sense ;-)
There's no shortage of them in photography... ;-) ;-)"*

Guess that is me.


----------



## keithcooper (Jan 20, 2020)

Ramage said:


> I have dedicated adapters for each EF lens I own and keep them attached at all times.
> 
> It all started with getting 1 with the EOS R Kit for "free" 1 with the RP Kit for 'free" and bought 3 more for dirt cheap off of craigslist.
> 
> ...


Nope, buying them new at full price would be needed ;-)
I was thinking of getting the one with the control ring to use with manual adapted lenses to go with the 'freebie' with my RP and presumably one that will come with whatever replaces my 5Ds


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## Ozarker (Jan 20, 2020)

keithcooper said:


> People with more money than sense ;-)
> There's no shortage of them in photography... ;-) ;-)


I've been there, except without the money.


----------



## jeanluc (Jan 20, 2020)

mjg79 said:


> I hope you enjoy it. I was dubious about the R but having bought one I love it and the lenses are wonderful.
> 
> My advice would be to take a bit of time to set it up. The Touch Bar can be customised a great deal and I've come to enjoy using it. Most buttons can be remapped. Assuming you're coming from an SLR it might take a bit of time to get your mind dialled in to it but once set up I find it as easy to use and as intuitive as the 5D. Remember you can use the touchscreen as a replacement for the joystick and the control ring on the lens to replace the back main dial (or anything else).
> 
> ...


I agree about the R. I am finding the 5d4 rarely used, except when it’s very wet. Even light drizzle the R stays out 
I have been using it even on -25 days here in Alberta, with no issues at all. Even find that one battery goes way way longer than I thought, even in the cold. We are talking about 3-4 hours of use with no rewarding.

For landscape use, I’ll take it with the adjustable screen over the 5d any day. Except when it’s wet....


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Jan 20, 2020)

I am trying to fill out all my "needs" while someone else is paying me to do work so when I decide to be a staving artist I can be a starving artist with good gear 

I expect the 2 Majors announcements will not be met with excitement from my financial adviser (my Wife and Partner) she is starting to see through my "it will make me a better photographer for the BS it is" 

I just like gear


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## JPAZ (Jan 20, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Who would buy an adapter per EF lens owned? Don’t think this is Canon’s strategy at all when one will do.


Hmmmmmm.

I actually sold my EF-RF adapter that came with my RP /RF 24-105 purchase and used the $ towards the EF-RF Control Ring Adapter. Never occurred to me to keep it.


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## Jonathan Thill (Jan 20, 2020)

jeanluc said:


> I agree about the R. I am finding the 5d4 rarely used, except when it’s very wet. Even light drizzle the R stays out
> I have been using it even on -25 days here in Alberta, with no issues at all. Even find that one battery goes way way longer than I thought, even in the cold. We are talking about 3-4 hours of use with no rewarding.
> 
> For landscape use, I’ll take it with the adjustable screen over the 5d any day. Except when it’s wet....


I use my R and RP in the west coast wet all the time. I have covers for the hotshoes and will use a shower cap if it gets really wet out and have not had any issues in a year of use. 

Nice to know about the cold as we do not get that much here on the coast and I do not miss the -40 winters of growing up in Grande Prairie but I do miss the open and desolate landscapes that I ignored in my youth. Need to get back out on the prairies in the winter.


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## [email protected] (Jan 20, 2020)

john1970 said:


> I think everyone needs to realize that Canon and Sony both make excellent equipment for photography. I have used Canon 1Dx Mk2 with their 400 mm f2.8 III lenses as well as Sony A9 II with a vertical grip along with their 400 mm f2.8 lens. Both take excellent pictures and for me both balance well in the hand. Without a vertical grip the Sony alpha cameras are uncomfortable for me to use, but adding the vertical grip solves that issue at least for me. Personally, I like the fact that the a9II with vertical grip weighs 1+ lb less than 1Dx Mk2. At least for me as I get older any loss of mass is appreciated.



I shoot the A92 with grip as my prime body, along with the Sony 600mm f/4. They balance just fine, and the loss of weight from my former 1dx2 + 500mm f/4 II is welcome. 

I think the best of both worlds would be the Canon ergonomics on a body the size of a gripped A92. That I can take the grip on and off is something I exploit quite a lot. When shooting with 2 bodies at once, I like to put one body on a Peak Design belt holster, which works well only with a non-gripped body. Short lens goes on that one, and long lens goes on the one carried by a strap..

There are two things I don't like about the A92:
1) The upgrade was only ergonomic, and essentially left the other weak points untouched
2) I think 24mp is a good bit lower than what I can use. When shooting studio/macro, etc., I get the right crop right in camera, but with sports/action/wildlife, I almost always am cropping afterward. I'd happily sacrifice a few frames per second for a boost in resolution.

This is why I am apparently the only guy I know disappointed by the new 1dx3, with only 20mp. 

I have hopes that the new R high mp model might tempt me back to Canon. Give me 7 fps+, and I'm in.


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## jedy (Jan 20, 2020)

slclick said:


> I think you left out the '1' before the 395


Nope. I was quoting the price difference. The R is £2149. That’s £395 more expensive than the A7III at £1754. Also edited my comment to make this clearer.


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## -pekr- (Jan 20, 2020)

I am just scratching my head about what should be our strategy. We've got 5D IV, 24-70/2.8 II and 70-200/2.8 II IS. Soon we are adding 100/2.8 IS macro and in the future I would like to have a complete trinity, hence a 16-35/2.8 III or its RF equivalent. And here comes the trouble - recently, as our backup, there is a 70D, we need to replace it. 

Hence we wanted to move to the new future R offering and move 5DIV to become a backup. But then we will have 2 partially incompatible systems. What I mean is - no RF lens for us, as it can't be used on the 5DIV. Should we just buy 16-35/2.8 III as being a good enough and use it on both bodies, or should we sell 5DIV and go full RF way? I mean - no high performance upcoming R body and R or RF as a backup? Then we could buy 15-35/2.8 IS RF instead ....


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## Ozarker (Jan 20, 2020)

jedy said:


> Nope. I was quoting the price difference. The R is £2149. That’s £395 more expensive than the A7III at £1754. Also edited my comment to make this clearer.


A7III = 24 megapixels = less for less money. There are always trade offs. I happily take the slower frame rate, better skin tones, and more megapixels over what Sony offers for the price difference... not to mention menus, ergonomics, and glass.

You sure do mention Sony an awful lot in your posts. Hmmmm...


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## telemaque (Jan 20, 2020)

Josh Leavitt said:


> The Sony A7 S rival model sounds pretty interesting. I've been hoping Canon would give us a video-centric camera for a while now. There's a lot of potential market share to be gained here among the filmmaker and content creator crowd. Canon has a leg up on there competitors when it comes to RF glass and the peerless dual pixel AF system their cameras use.
> 
> Things I would expect and like to see for such a camera are: unlimited record times, dual UHS-II card slots, headphone & mic jack, dual gain sensor, fully articulating touchscreen, uncropped full-frame recording with DPAF functionality, C-Log profiles, on par recording modes/options of the Panasonic S1H, and IBIS (of course).



ABSOLUTELY Josh, your description is also mine !

I would have added a good low light video behavior, but the* low pixels* and *"A7 S line" *target says exactelly it is going to be an excellent low light camera, so dual native ISO might be part of the technical solution followed... we will see.

My Canon L lenses are already shouting their excitment and also my Rokinon Cine Lenses 24, 50 and 85mm.

If this body is in line with your description, gosh this will be a relief and somehow a reward for those canonists like me who have been begging Canon to listen to non professional but serious expert videographers...


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## slclick (Jan 20, 2020)

jedy said:


> Nope. I was quoting the price difference. The R is £2149. That’s £395 more expensive than the A7III at £1754. Also edited my comment to make this clearer.


So I go back to look at my lack of reading comprehension and after all it wasn't me? I seriously can't go an entire day without a mistake.


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## mjg79 (Jan 20, 2020)

Drcampbellicu said:


> yes and no
> Birders who have rigs setup wont complain about the 1dx and big whites
> 
> But most birders don’t like weight
> ...



Interesting to hear other perspectives. I suppose as flights get more restricted that makes sense. However it strikes me that if one is talking about a 200-400 or 500/4 the size of the lenses is still going to be an issue.

It certainly makes sense for scuba diving.

I used to use a 7D with various telephoto lenses but couldn't get on with it, perhaps I am just stuck in my ways but I like the size of the 1D bodies, or more particularly the form factor and buttons perhaps, when using the biggest long lenses. The rest of the time I hate it! I suppose if the whole thing could be shrunk maybe 10-20% that would be good. But small light bodies with big big heavy lenses just doesn't feel comfortable to me.

I've seen others using A9s with various adapted Canon whites and I really, really couldn't get on with the ergonomics and balance yet clearly many others, many talented photographers, can. I suppose this sort of thing is the perfect example of there being no right answer for everyone.

The last safari I went on a German photographer there had an A99 II with some of the exotic Sony A-mount long lenses and that did impress me. Despite being a full frame SLR/SLT, it's surprisingly compact, somewhere between a crop and full frame Canon SLR, when gripped it did feel like a sort of mini 1D.

One thing I am confident about is that Canon will pour a huge amount of energy and time into the ergonomics of any future RF mount pro camera. I think there is no chance that it will simply have the same body as the others. In some ways it is cool that Sony did that, eg for sharing grips and batteries. But I expect Canon will produce something like a slimmed down 1DX style body. We will see - probably a long wait yet!


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## mjg79 (Jan 20, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> I am just scratching my head about what should be our strategy. We've got 5D IV, 24-70/2.8 II and 70-200/2.8 II IS. Soon we are adding 100/2.8 IS macro and in the future I would like to have a complete trinity, hence a 16-35/2.8 III or its RF equivalent. And here comes the trouble - recently, as our backup, there is a 70D, we need to replace it.
> 
> Hence we wanted to move to the new future R offering and move 5DIV to become a backup. But then we will have 2 partially incompatible systems. What I mean is - no RF lens for us, as it can't be used on the 5DIV. Should we just buy 16-35/2.8 III as being a good enough and use it on both bodies, or should we sell 5DIV and go full RF way? I mean - no high performance upcoming R body and R or RF as a backup? Then we could buy 15-35/2.8 IS RF instead ....



I've used both the EF 70-200 2.8L II and EF 24-70 2.8L II adapted to my R and found they work very well. So you can always replace your 70D with an R to put one foot in the RF mount, it even will share batteries with your 5DIV and you don't need to rush to change lenses. Indeed the price on the RF 15-35 2.8L IS (and 24-70 and 70-200) will continue to come down I think. Canon brought in almost all RF glass expensive to soak up money from the early adopters. GAS afflicted etc but if you look at the 24-105 L, 35/1.8 IS and 50/1.2L they quite quickly got their prices to a more reasonable level.They won't want their 2.8 L zooms, lenses Canon has always prided themselves on for professional use, to be a lot more expensive than Sonys 2.8 GM zooms for too long.

I know with technology you can always say "wait until next year". But with a new lens in a new system, I suspect a little patience might save you a small fortune. In terms of build quality and certain elements of tracking the 5DIV remains superior to the R so unless you are desperately in a rush for a wide angle I wouldn't rush.

If you want your next purchase to be a wide angle though, then yes, you are in a bit of a conundrum. Perhaps a refurbed 16-35 2.8L III to tide you over for now.


----------



## tron (Jan 20, 2020)

I love my 5D4 but I also got an R system mainly due to 15-35 2.8L IS and 24-70 2.8L IS. Now I am torn between. I guess for excursions (with no car) with one medium bag the solution is to put an R with 24-105 in addition to a medium white tele zoom (100-400 or 400 DOII) with 5DsR. The 2 camera/2 lenses combinations fit in a reasonable portable bag. Now if traveling with car I can put 2 bags so no problem...

For travelling abroad it is EOS R with RF15-35 and RF24-70 (I like museum and church interiors)

By the way I found 2 Canon DSLRs with the same Battery pack: 5DMkIII and 5DsR. So I got a cheap MEIKE battery pack (which I haven't used yet) for my 5DsR. In general I am not very fond of battery packs due to the size. Also I put (Arca Swiss compatible) camera plates on my cameras which is no go for battery packs.


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## MadsLarsen (Jan 20, 2020)

The rumor of a "Pro" EOS RS and a lower megapixel more video-focused EOS R with a lower mp count but with better lowlight- and videoperformance, sounds more realistic than the rumors abut a EOS R Mark II. I hope that Canon are going this way like Sony have the A7R (EOS RS), A7S (EOS R with lower mp count and more focus on video) and A7 (EOS R).


----------



## danski0224 (Jan 20, 2020)

Gonna be expensive with the new high megapixel body and the full frame Foveon allegedly coming out this year...

Winning lottery ticket, please.


----------



## Gino_FOTO (Jan 20, 2020)

Resonably priced modern 50mm, f/2, included IS, tag under 450€ would be so nice.


----------



## bluenoser1993 (Jan 20, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Canon always (I believe) bring out a new grip for each body, it is a sure fire money maker for them so why would they change that?


5Diii/5Ds/5DsR all shared the BG-E11, so with this talk of an Astro model and a high res model I thought they would perhaps share the body to keep production cost down and hence share the grip


----------



## SteveC (Jan 20, 2020)

VICYASA said:


> WHERE??? I NEED THAT DEAL!!!



Careful...sometimes the "24-105" is the L R kit lens...and sometimes it's the EF lens...which is not L glass.


----------



## Dequals61 (Jan 20, 2020)

IcyBergs said:


> Really hoping the latter part of this rumor is wrong and the body announced in May is indeed the R mark 2.


Same here. I think marketing would suggest that the R mark II has to be close to the original R or Canon wouldn't have dropped the price so dramatically as they did in December. Unless of course the original R just wasn't selling. But still cutting that deep reminds me more of a replacement price cut then that of just trying to promote sales.


----------



## Dequals61 (Jan 21, 2020)

Josh Leavitt said:


> The Sony A7 S rival model sounds pretty interesting. I've been hoping Canon would give us a video-centric camera for a while now. There's a lot of potential market share to be gained here among the filmmaker and content creator crowd. Canon has a leg up on there competitors when it comes to RF glass and the peerless dual pixel AF system their cameras use.
> 
> Things I would expect and like to see for such a camera are: unlimited record times, dual UHS-II card slots, headphone & mic jack, dual gain sensor, fully articulating touchscreen, uncropped full-frame recording with DPAF functionality, C-Log profiles, on par recording modes/options of the Panasonic S1H, and IBIS (of course).


Who knows for sure at this point but I'd be really surprised if Canon did that. After all most of the crippling video features to date on Canon's cameras are all based upon Canon protecting their Cinema line of cameras. That still hasn't changed.


----------



## Eersel (Jan 21, 2020)

Everyone still looking for that 7D II replacement that will go toe to toe with the XT-4 in an EOS R body. 9Not that much confidence in EFM unfortunately.

Canon counters every other manufacturer thats not making MFT or Medium Format


----------



## Drcampbellicu (Jan 21, 2020)

I am really excited
I’ve got an artic trip, Kilimanjaro trip and safari trip this year. my current bodies have taken a beating and I really need/want a new toy. 

I refuse to buy the R. It’s not for me. The A9ii almost got me but I hate learning new menus and such. I think the af is terrific but it’s hard to transition to a new system

Hoping the Rii comes soon. I don’t really need the high megapixel R but would consider it if it has enough speed and improved Af. 



mjg79 said:


> Interesting to hear other perspectives. I suppose as flights get more restricted that makes sense. However it strikes me that if one is talking about a 200-400 or 500/4 the size of the lenses is still going to be an issue.
> 
> It certainly makes sense for scuba diving.
> 
> ...


----------



## addola (Jan 21, 2020)

The 3rd RF-mount camera that Canon released is the special-purpose EOS Ra for astrophotographers. Therefore, I wouldn't be amazed if they release one or two "specialty" cameras like a high megapixel camera and/or a low-light performer.


----------



## bergstrom (Jan 21, 2020)

tron said:


> Talking about camera or lenses?




camera. i think canon were looking into a mirrorless with ef mount.


----------



## geffy (Jan 21, 2020)

mpb001 said:


> There was a migration from Canon to Sony for those who thought Sony was the best. While their sensors are excellent, I never liked the feel of their camera bodies I am a stayer as far as Canon goes for many reasons and probably why many pros stay with them.
> 
> Now, in 2020, many of the Sony people will likely move back to Canon with these true high end pro R mirrorless bodies with likely IBIS and new sensors on top of their already stellar and growing RF lenses.
> 
> That said though, even the best camera and sensor will only go so far in getting that great shot. That still lies in the mind and capabilities of the photographer.


Sony are just not professional cameras, they cause too many problems and are too fussy in use and handling, the sensors are great and can produce great pictures it just does not flow, they rely on the hype of influencers who look at pixels so they are popular


----------



## BillB (Jan 21, 2020)

Eersel said:


> Everyone still looking for that 7D II replacement that will go toe to toe with the XT-4 in an EOS R body. 9Not that much confidence in EFM unfortunately.
> 
> Canon counters every other manufacturer thats not making MFT or Medium Format


Maybe not everyone.


----------



## mjg79 (Jan 21, 2020)

Drcampbellicu said:


> I am really excited
> I’ve got an artic trip, Kilimanjaro trip and safari trip this year. my current bodies have taken a beating and I really need/want a new toy.
> 
> I refuse to buy the R. It’s not for me. The A9ii almost got me but I hate learning new menus and such. I think the af is terrific but it’s hard to transition to a new system
> ...


 
Sounds a lot of fun  How lucky we are these days where the problem faced is choosing between so many great cameras!


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## mjg79 (Jan 21, 2020)

bluenoser1993 said:


> 5Diii/5Ds/5DsR all shared the BG-E11, so with this talk of an Astro model and a high res model I thought they would perhaps share the body to keep production cost down and hence share the grip



It would fit with Canon’s recent history and is sensible in terms of manufacturing costs. As you said the 5DS was essentially in a 5D3 body (with I believe beefed up mirror damping and tripod plate and a few improved materials like the mode dial). 

However that was the third generation of 5D that had been constantly refined. 

The R isn’t quite like that being 1st gen. I bought it, it’s actually very nice, the ergonomics are much better than they look. It’s much nicer to handle than any of the Sony’s for example. But certain things like the af-on button position slightly too far to the side and lack of joystick and the mode dial’s situation aren’t ideal. The controversial touch pad is something I’ve come to like - I think in time such ultra customisable buttons will become quite common, allowing clicks and swipes and perhaps other gestures so I hope canon keeps going with it. You can see similar tech in the af-on button of the 1dxiii. 

Of course canon could improve those things and keep the base the same shape so the grips could be swapped. 

It’s exiting to think what is coming really. Given the amazing lenses we have so far in RF mount it’s a fair bet we will get some great cameras.


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## Dequals61 (Jan 21, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> Canon, specialist in release of cameras I don't want. Well, it's going to be a long wait then :-( I want a 5DIV successor, not more than 40 mpx, not less than what we've got with the 5DIV. I expect both speculated cameras to not fill the bill for us, wedding photogs.


Well I agree with you in some aspects. I know quite a few Canon shooters went over to Sony when the a7rIII was released, (me included). Better specs, (IQ and DR) than the 5DIV and a couple hundred dollars less to boot. Plus the performance,, speed, was manageable. I never needed the 10 fps, but it was nice knowing I had it especially with a 42 megapixel sensor. So even with that being said after 1 1/2 years I still hate shooting with this camera. It's just not a enjoyable experience. Plus because of their 8-bladed apertures two of my favorite lenses I use are the old EF 70-200 f/2.8 USM mark I and EF 70-200 f/4 USM IS for nite cityscape photography. I use those with an MC 11 adapter and it surprisingly works quite well especially considering the age of those lenses but it's nowhere quick enough to use as a walk around AF solution. My personal experience with shooting Sony is that I have to own more lenses, (2-Canon, 2-Sony and 2-Zeiss) to cover the same bases that three Canon lenses would cover. Sony has some nice glass but it's just not the lenses I'm interested in. I found the same thing with Nikon. I myself my not be interested in the EOS R mark II at, (rumored) 32 megapixels for it would be a drop from what I have but that would soundl like a nice alternative for a wedding photographer. Basically a mirrorless 5DIV.


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## mjg79 (Jan 21, 2020)

Gino_FOTO said:


> Resonably priced modern 50mm, f/2, included IS, tag under 450€ would be so nice.



I believe such lenses are where mirrorless will really shine. 

A lens many overlook because it isn’t an L lens is the RF 35/1.8 IS - now my most used lens on my R. It isn’t as nice to hold or use as the EF 35 L II of course but it has really impressed me. Sharp wide open, very effective IS, 1.8 aperture, very close focusing, very small and light. A range of such glass from 20 through 100mm would be excellent, perhaps a 20/2.8, 28/2, 50/1.8, 85/1.8 and 100/2. 

If one looks at Sony comparing say the 50/1.4 and 55/1.8 it really seems that the 1.4 glass always end up big yet just dropping to 1.8 offers big advantages to the designer. Canon has always had a great strength in producing a system with a great range of lenses and I hope they will do the same for RF mount.


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## Quarkcharmed (Jan 21, 2020)

Two bodies are coming. Sounds sexy...
Really hoping for the high res version.


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## Dequals61 (Jan 21, 2020)

mjg79 said:


> It would fit with Canon’s recent history and is sensible in terms of manufacturing costs. As you said the 5DS was essentially in a 5D3 body (with I believe beefed up mirror damping and tripod plate and a few improved materials like the mode dial).
> 
> However that was the third generation of 5D that had been constantly refined.
> 
> ...


I agree Canon cameras will get better. But remember Canon has always been known for its glass. How long has the EF lenses been around now? IMHO Canon's glass has always outperformed their bodies. I won't be surprised if Canon is always going to be in third place in sensor performance next to Sony and Nikon, (Sony's older brother.Lol) But my question is dose it even matter once you factor in Canon's optics, ease-of-use and overall system. We've gotten to a point where specs are just numbers on a piece of paper. In real world applications does it really matter?


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## Dequals61 (Jan 21, 2020)

mpb001 said:


> There was a migration from Canon to Sony for those who thought Sony was the best. While their sensors are excellent, I never liked the feel of their camera bodies I am a stayer as far as Canon goes for many reasons and probably why many pros stay with them.
> 
> Now, in 2020, many of the Sony people will likely move back to Canon with these true high end pro R mirrorless bodies with likely IBIS and new sensors on top of their already stellar and growing RF lenses.
> 
> That said though, even the best camera and sensor will only go so far in getting that great shot. That still lies in the mind and capabilities of the photographer.


I'd love to switch back to Canon from Sony but Canon has yet to offer a body that I would be interested in performance wise. We'll see what the proposed new R releases turn out to be but so fare it appears, (going on the current rumors) that the high megapixel model would be overkill and slow fps wise, (coming from a Sony a7rIII) and the R mark II to low in resolution. I'm sure I could live with a 32 megapixel camera but it's hard to get excited about especially considering the price Canon will be asking


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## mjg79 (Jan 21, 2020)

Dequals61 said:


> I agree Canon cameras will get better. But remember Canon has always been known for its glass. How long has the EF lenses been around now? IMHO Canon's glass has always outperformed their bodies. I won't be surprised if Canon is always going to be in third place in sensor performance next to Sony and Nikon, (Sony's older brother.Lol) But my question is dose it even matter once you factor in Canon's optics, ease-of-use and overall system. We've gotten to a point where specs are just numbers on a piece of paper. In real world applications does it really matter?



Indeed - and has always been like that. The first EF 300 2.8L they brought out in the 80s blew away the Nikons of the time - but it came out before Canon had a pro EF camera. 

Long term canon is right to concentrate on glass. And as the tech matures I think camera spec differences will mean less and less. Perhaps in a few years the Sony and Nikon might have 100 mp and 35fps while canon “only” has 80mp and 25fps! But canon will have exquisitely engineered L lenses, made in Japan, repairable, reliable and with the best optics. For me that’s a much better place to spend money.


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## sanj (Jan 21, 2020)

So 'bit later today' did not happen. Hopefully tomorrow!


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## Dequals61 (Jan 21, 2020)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> It was released. It's called the 1DX mk iii. A workhorse so durable that I don't think Sony has anything comparable to. Although, even the pro grade construction of the 1DX mk ii we much better too for actual total build. The 1DX mk iii has reams of features I'd never need, but it's understandable why so many photographers stick with the 1DX line. The weight is reasonable too. I've heard some make rediculous comments like "arms falling off" at the end of the day, but I use a chainsaw often, and the 1DX bodies are "light as a feather" by comparison.
> 
> This woman seems to have no problem using a 1DX mk iii in the field.


Ok take this with a grain of salt, I appreciate your enthusiasm. I didn't play the video but from the thumbnail is she shooting from the ground because of the weight of the camera or is bc the 1DXIII doesn't have an articulating screen? Lol


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## Dequals61 (Jan 21, 2020)

mjg79 said:


> Indeed - and has always been like that. The first EF 300 2.8L they brought out in the 80s blew away the Nikons of the time - but it came out before Canon had a pro EF camera.
> 
> Long term canon is right to concentrate on glass. And as the tech matures I think camera spec differences will mean less and less. Perhaps in a few years the Sony and Nikon might have 100 mp and 35fps while canon “only” has 80mp and 25fps! But canon will have exquisitely engineered L lenses, made in Japan, repairable, reliable and with the best optics. For me that’s a much better place to spend money.


I wholeheartedly agree


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## Dequals61 (Jan 21, 2020)

jedy said:


> What a silly fanboy comment. Canon certainly need to bring out a decent camera to match the high quality, expensive lenses they have. One thing is for sure, Canon need to get their pricing right. The EOS R is currently (here in the UK) £395 more expensive than the A7III, which has had a price drop (and there’s a cashback offer until the end of this month) and offers less for your money (also including lens choices). The A7RIV competitor needs to be better than it in terms of specs plus should be around the same price. If they release another camera that offers less for more money, Canon will surely lose out on vital sales. As it is, the current lens lineup, limited to expensive L lenses will put plenty off for now. Let’s hope they deliver a decent camera, at least. We can all speculate but only time will tell though.


You know Canon will always ask for top dollar especially when a new camera is released. Here in the States the a7rIV is listed at $3498.00 (USD). I easily see Canon listing their high megapixel R model for at least $300.00 (USD) over the a7rIV. That's just the Canon way.


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## Boudreaux&Thibodeaux (Jan 21, 2020)

Bah at more megapixels. I'm with (the former) Fake Chuck. Give me fewer great pixels, noise and banding free.
And if Canon is thinking about an even more entry level R type camera, they're off their game, unless they have a really nice, and decent, kit lens that's affordable to go with it.


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## PureClassA (Jan 21, 2020)

I’m not sure I’ve ever gotten so excited by a CR2 before. 
A lower MP sensor that would be video focused like a whole lot of folks have been hoping for would be outstanding. Give us full frame without binning and crazy stupid ISO performance like an A7S and people will chuck those Sony things out like dirty diapers. Give us the video function of a 1DX3 in a video centric RF body, please. Would be awesome. And with a lower MP sensor (assuming 12 like the A7s) the Digic X could be quite potent in video mode.


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## canonnews (Jan 21, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> I’m not sure I’ve ever gotten so excited by a CR2 before.
> A lower MP sensor that would be video focused like a whole lot of folks have been hoping for would be outstanding. Give us full frame without binning and crazy stupid ISO performance like an A7S and people will chuck those Sony things out like dirty diapers. Give us the video function of a 1DX3 in a video centric RF body, please. Would be awesome. And with a lower MP sensor (assuming 12 like the A7s) the Digic X could be quite potent in video mode.



I thought about this .. is it really going to be that much better than oversampling from 20MP or 24MP?

versus taking a low MP sensor?

I would assume you would want to oversample - since that, with clever algorithms can reduce noise even further.

I could see it when you couldn't oversample because of feasbility - sure low MP is fine, but since Canon has already shown they can, why would you want this?

versus something like the 20MP 1DX sensor that can output nearly 6K RAW for you to post process down to 4K to your hearts content?


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## Dequals61 (Jan 21, 2020)

keithcooper said:


> Seriously?
> I've not seen anything from Canon to suggest anything other than they want people to buy RF lenses and if not, then an adapter per EF lens owned ;-)
> 
> They may not say it, but I'd be very surprised if anything new is coming in EF mount other than a few last-gasp updates for a few DSLR lines.
> ...


That depends on your needs. I'm using an old Canon EF 24-70 USM mark I lens on a Sony a7rIII and as fare as I'm concerned it's not replaceable. I use to own the mark II version of this same lens, (which I purchased new) and sold it for a used mark I. It's a sharp lens, but more importantly for me is the 8-blade aperture design which gives nice clean 8-point light stars for night cityscape photography. The EF mark II or the RF of this lens thou technically sharper are both a 9-blade design which produces 18-point light stars which can get a little busy for my taste. So new or old doesn't deem the quality of a lens your specific purpose does.


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## webzkey (Jan 21, 2020)

Dang, all this is doing is making my decision of whether or not to upgrade that much harder lmfao


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## Drcampbellicu (Jan 21, 2020)

i disagree
I get the sense canon just didn’t have the technology to release the new cameras before now
They were behind on camera tech but as always, ahead and ready with lenses

this wasn’t strategy per se
They just went with what they had ready



mjg79 said:


> Indeed - and has always been like that. The first EF 300 2.8L they brought out in the 80s blew away the Nikons of the time - but it came out before Canon had a pro EF camera.
> 
> Long term canon is right to concentrate on glass. And as the tech matures I think camera spec differences will mean less and less. Perhaps in a few years the Sony and Nikon might have 100 mp and 35fps while canon “only” has 80mp and 25fps! But canon will have exquisitely engineered L lenses, made in Japan, repairable, reliable and with the best optics. For me that’s a much better place to spend money.


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## Dequals61 (Jan 21, 2020)

geffy said:


> Sony are just not professional cameras, they cause too many problems and are too fussy in use and handling, the sensors are great and can produce great pictures it just does not flow, they rely on the hype of influencers who look at pixels so they are popular


I agee. It has amused me how you tubber reviewers always seem to give Sony a pass on their build quality. Like the Alpha Series of cameras was Sony's first attempt at bringing a camera to market. Sony has been manufacturing cameras sense the late 80's! I figure it's 1 of 2 things. First Sony's manufacturing was usually geared towards a non-pro consumers market. I've never herd of a 'Pro' CD or DVD player user or a 'Pro' flat screen tv watcher. Second, Sony was fully aware that their designs were not up to par but just sat back bc every electronic geek who most don't even use a camera professionally where ranting and raving over just the tech aspect alone. Sales took off so why bother. Sony knows tech will always get better but are also fully aware that you can cross a point where it's not as relevant anymore. So they use these 'build' improvements with each new release as an upgrade, (a7rIII perfect example). Upgrades that Canon and Nikon have had for years if not decades. Sony is no stranger to the marketing dance and in my opinion they are playing the people like a fiddle.


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## erader (Jan 21, 2020)

DannyPwins said:


> Just picked up an EOS R with 24-105 for $1200. Couldn’t pass on that deal. Looking forward to the MkII or a pro R body.



hell of a deal. for my work EOSR = 5d4.


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## cosmopotter (Jan 21, 2020)

I worked for Canon recently. Always think in terms of what will serve the largest market. Personally I think one of these 2 will serve as a 5D Mk IV replacement and signal the commitment towards mirrorless to match the EF lense announcement. Personally (and as a 5D4 owner) is be happy with the same 30MP I already have with improved performance. I’d want the EOS R body with the new selector from the 1DX3 replacing that Touch Bar, full frame 4K and 10fps and I’d be thrilled.


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## Stig Nygaard (Jan 21, 2020)

canonnews said:


> I thought about this .. is it really going to be that much better than oversampling from 20MP or 24MP?
> versus taking a low MP sensor?



Faster readout and less data to process with a lower MP sensor.
I'm not a videoexpert, but among advantages I believe it means better control of horizontal lines when panning (I forgot the term used for those non-horizontal lines?). And easier/possible to make fullframe 60Hz (or higher) 4K.


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## -pekr- (Jan 21, 2020)

tron said:


> I love my 5D4 but I also got an R system mainly due to 15-35 2.8L IS and 24-70 2.8L IS. Now I am torn between. I guess for excursions (with no car) with one medium bag the solution is to put an R with 24-105 in addition to a medium white tele zoom (100-400 or 400 DOII) with 5DsR. The 2 camera/2 lenses combinations fit in a reasonable portable bag. Now if traveling with car I can put 2 bags so no problem...
> 
> For travelling abroad it is EOS R with RF15-35 and RF24-70 (I like museum and church interiors)
> 
> By the way I found 2 Canon DSLRs with the same Battery pack: 5DMkIII and 5DsR. So I got a cheap MEIKE battery pack (which I haven't used yet) for my 5DsR. In general I am not very fond of battery packs due to the size. Also I put (Arca Swiss compatible) camera plates on my cameras which is no go for battery packs.



But, having an R and 5DIV as a backup will not work as a backup situation, at least not with the RF lens. What do you do, when your R breaks for some reason? You can't use your new RF lens on your 5DIV. I know that such situation is theoretical, but that's what 2 card slots and/or backup cameras are for anyway (meaning we did not face any failuers in that regards yet).


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## -pekr- (Jan 21, 2020)

Hmm, there is a new Twitter post stating, that IBIS is not going to be available on all 2020 R camera bodies. That would be weird. IBIS + new AF-ON button should become a common standard from now on. They are going to be smashed badly for that, as even Canon users are expecting IBIS nowadays.


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## Quarkcharmed (Jan 21, 2020)

interesting, twitter where?
Personally I'd be interested in IBIS but I'm more interested in good sensor and DR.



-pekr- said:


> Hmm, there is a new Twitter post stating, that IBIS is not going to be available on all 2020 R camera bodies. That would be weird. IBIS + new AF-ON button should become a common standard from now on. They are going to be smashed badly for that, as even Canon users are expecting IBIS nowadays.


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## jam05 (Jan 21, 2020)

Don't lose the splash moment Canon. The first announcement should be the cmera that makes the most impact, while the second camera being after spring early summer will have lost the impact and will be overshadowed and merely a ripple as being that close to the opening ceremonies.


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## jam05 (Jan 21, 2020)

unfocused said:


> What makes you think “unknown type of body” in May isn't a 5D V?


its too close to the opening ceremonies


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## canonnews (Jan 21, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> Hmm, there is a new Twitter post stating, that IBIS is not going to be available on all 2020 R camera bodies. That would be weird. IBIS + new AF-ON button should become a common standard from now on. They are going to be smashed badly for that, as even Canon users are expecting IBIS nowadays.


depends entirely on the camera. not even Sony puts IBIS in every camera they make and neither does Fuji or Nikon.


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## canonnews (Jan 21, 2020)

jam05 said:


> its too close to the opening ceremonies


these cameras have zero to do with the olympics. Canon will do an announcement in May for PhotoKina.

The main Olympic camera is already released and Canon will be pumping that camera a ton during the Olympics.


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## Jasonmc89 (Jan 21, 2020)

jazzytune said:


> Well, this is true for certain models. I think for the entry level crop sensor DSLRs, Canon maintain the same battery grip for t2i (550D) to t5i (700D). It really depends on how different the camera body is from the previous version I suppose...


True, 70D and 80D share the same grip too.


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## jam05 (Jan 21, 2020)

canonnews said:


> these cameras have zero to do with the olympics. Canon will do an announcement in May for PhotoKina.
> 
> The main Olympic camera is already released and Canon will be pumping that camera a ton during the Olympics.


Sure they do. Its marketing. The Summer Olympics is THE marketing showcase for cameras. Always has been. Much respect for Photokina but its not even in the league as the Summer Olympics


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## jam05 (Jan 21, 2020)

jam05 said:


> Sure they do. Its marketing. The Summer Olympics is THE marketing showcase for cameras. Always has been. Much respect for Photokina but its not even in the league as the Summer Olympics


In May, nobody will give a hoot about a new Canon camera. As nobody cared when Sony released its new camera late summer of the last summer Olympics.


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## jam05 (Jan 21, 2020)

jam05 said:


> In May, nobody will give a hoot about a new Canon camera. As nobody cared when Sony released its new camera late summer of the last summer Olympics.


The camera to be purchased an used in the summer must be shipping in May.


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## erader (Jan 21, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> Hmm, there is a new Twitter post stating, that IBIS is not going to be available on all 2020 R camera bodies. That would be weird. IBIS + new AF-ON button should become a common standard from now on. They are going to be smashed badly for that, as even Canon users are expecting IBIS nowadays.



come on with the ibis puhleeeeez canon I cant take the freaking whining anymore and 4k? please give the "content creators" 4k!


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## jam05 (Jan 21, 2020)

The spring and summer camera to be uaed will be purchased before the summer. The "splash" camera being announced first. The first camera should not be a thud.


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## justaCanonuser (Jan 21, 2020)

mjg79 said:


> In the EF mount, does anyone know if Canon actually cooperated with Zeiss for the ZE lenses and Voigtlander for their EF mount glass? I remain a bit jealous of the amazing glass that Voigtlander is putting out for Sony's FE mount and would love to have some of those options for RF. Unless Canon is planning to make a manual focus 40mm 1.2 (haha)) why not let Voigtlander produce it for RF?


Pretty sure that Canon will not directly cooperate with Zeiss or Voigtlander, they never did before (as far as I know). I think they are too proud of their proven ability to make very good lenses by themselves. Plus, there were always offerings from other manufacturers for the EF mount, Sigma, Tampon, Tonika... Zeiss without direct cooperation. So they can rely on the other manufacturers to come up with lenses for the RF mount, including manual focusing lenses, - IF Canon manages to get a big enough share of the FF ML market. (I am pretty sure they will.)

Sony had to be more open in terms of cooperation when they started with their A7 series, since a fast growth of a decent, attractive lens selection for their E mount was vital for establishing their new camera line. Plus, the first FF lenses from Sony were mostly quite mediocre quality, what has changed in the past years, now they really do serious business. Btw I always have to silently giggle when I see their shiny, much too white lenses. Sony behaves like a hip hopper who managed to successfully overcome his poor roots, made a lot of fresh money, and who now tries to look like old money


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## jam05 (Jan 21, 2020)

canonnews said:


> these cameras have zero to do with the olympics. Canon will do an announcement in May for PhotoKina.
> 
> The main Olympic camera is already released and Canon will be pumping that camera a ton during the Olympics.


People wont be walking about Tokyo with a 1DXIII.


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## jam05 (Jan 21, 2020)

canonnews said:


> these cameras have zero to do with the olympics. Canon will do an announcement in May for PhotoKina.
> 
> The main Olympic camera is already released and Canon will be pumping that camera a ton during the Olympics.


People have no clue about what goes on at the Olympics. They believe thar photogs carry their "main" event camera around everywhere for two weeks


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## jam05 (Jan 21, 2020)

Nobody is gonna be walking all around Tokyo with a 1DXIII. Ya gotta be kidding me if you believe that.


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## jam05 (Jan 21, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> interesting, twitter where?
> Personally I'd be interested in IBIS but I'm more interested in good sensor and DR.


Exactly, No sense starting a rumor for 2021.


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## jam05 (Jan 21, 2020)

jam05 said:


> Exactly, No sense starting a rumor for 2021.


However, the CFexpress bus card makes the new sensor that much more effective with a super fast write time, much faster than XQD. Coupled with that new AF one button. Have to be in the hands of fotogs in the spring during prime wedding season


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## justaCanonuser (Jan 21, 2020)

mjg79 said:


> Your last part is always worth remembering - the best photographer I know uses a 5D III and lots of quite beaten up ZE lenses. You could give me a 1000 mp RSX Mark 12 and I still wouldn't make as good photos.


I agree. For instance, Sebastião Salgado shoots with Canon gear. We can be sure that he exactly knows why. And, as an outstanding photographer, well, one of the greatest of our time, he gets stunning results (he would with any gear, he did with manual film gear for many decades). As a fan, I always have his photography in mind, when I read all this hate on DPR and other photo forums, if any Canon announcement comes up. 

Here is a quote from Salgado that I found on the German Canon site:

"Photography is about much more than just taking pictures - it is a way of life."

Today, all cameras are so good, so sophisticated, that you can't blame your gear if your images don't satisfy you (and others). I - just a humble amateur but long-term experienced - think, that the two most important features of your gear should be: it should not interfere with your way of shooting (ergonomics should help you), and particularly if you frequently do photo walks (climbings, crawlings ) in rugged areas, it should be as reliable as possible. That's why I personally stick with Canon.


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## -pekr- (Jan 21, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> interesting, twitter where?
> Personally I'd be interested in IBIS but I'm more interested in good sensor and DR.





Trankilstef said:


> The original article had been posted yesterday, and the last sentence said "_More to come a bit later today_ "... But nothing came or did I miss something?



It's under the Canon Rumours Twitter feed ... There's other one there


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## justaCanonuser (Jan 21, 2020)

"Another source has said it won’t be the EOS R Mark II in the first half, but a lower megapixel body to “rival the A7 S line”."

If this is true, I'll have to drain a bit my bank account. I'd LOVE to have a low MP low light beast from Canon. They should also make the high MP fans happy, of course, but hello, Canon, there are also people like me waiting for a new low-light wonder from your brand!


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## Joules (Jan 21, 2020)

jam05 said:


> Nobody is gonna be walking all around Tokyo with a 1DXIII. Ya gotta be kidding me if you believe that.


First of all, you don't have to spam post. You can edit your posts if you want to append something after you made it. And you can quote multiple posts by simply clicking reply in each of them.

And then, what even is your point? That people who go to Tokyo will need a second camera if they want to explore the location? Sure enough you won't do much with just a 1D X series and a super Tele.

But the first new RF camera is likely to be the high resolution one (between 70 and 90 MP) and apparently we're getting a second one in May which originally was rumored to be the replacement for the R but now seems to be some specialized model, focused maybe on pure shooting speed and video thanks to a lower res sensor. Those use cases still don't sound like they are that relevant to the Olympics Specifically.


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## justaCanonuser (Jan 21, 2020)

jam05 said:


> Nobody is gonna be walking all around Tokyo with a 1DXIII. Ya gotta be kidding me if you believe that.


Sure? A lot of people drive big SUVs only in their city, despite the lack of appropriate parking space.


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## danielguillamon (Jan 21, 2020)

Here, the weddings photographers waiting for this dual slot, the first weddings on April, so... i cant hope the new R more time...


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## -pekr- (Jan 21, 2020)

justaCanonuser said:


> "Another source has said it won’t be the EOS R Mark II in the first half, but a lower megapixel body to “rival the A7 S line”."
> 
> If this is true, I'll have to drain a bit my bank account. I'd LOVE to have a low MP low light beast from Canon. They should also make the high MP fans happy, of course, but hello, Canon, there are also people like me waiting for a new low-light wonder from your brand!



Depends upon what "low" means in Canon's book. I would find 12 mpx a bit too much limited. What about 18-20? But that would be mostly in the 1DX III ballpark, so most probably not a high ISO "beast" ...


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## justaCanonuser (Jan 21, 2020)

mjg79 said:


> Perhaps in a few years the Sony and Nikon might have 100 mp and 35fps while canon “only” has 80mp and 25fps! ...


Looks like you entered photography after 2010. In the decade before, Canon was leading the pixel race, and the 5D II was the first FF camera with HD video, which was a game changer in video business. Nikon particularly was in trouble. Canon advanced CMOS sensor tech when all other manufacturers preferred CCD, because CMOS was said to be too noisy - but in the end it opened up leading video capabilities for Canon back then. Unfortunately, after 2010, Canon really slowed down sitting on their laurels and let Sony pull ahead. Btw this typical for electronics industry, Sony had the better CMOS technology because they invested later in their production lines. I just mention this because such an oscillation between being very innovative and very conservative in the camera sector is quite typical for Canon's history. So let's see what future will bring.


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## Joules (Jan 21, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> Depends upon what "low" means in Canon's book. I would find 12 mpx a bit too much limited. What about 18-20? But that would be mostly in the 1DX III ballpark, so most probably not a high ISO "beast" ...


Higher resolutions don't correspond to significant impacts on low light performance though.

A lower resolution sensor will most likely allow very quick read out, meaning very little rolling shutter and maybe even suitable performance for electronic shutter to be used for stills of moving subjects. If the latter is the case, we could see FPS around 30 (The M6 II does 18 MP 12 Bit 30 FPS with e-Shutter). But that sounds like a sports oriented model... Weird rumors.


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## justaCanonuser (Jan 21, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> Depends upon what "low" means in Canon's book. I would find 12 mpx a bit too much limited. What about 18-20? But that would be mostly in the 1DX III ballpark, so most probably not a high ISO "beast" ...


Well, 12 MP can deliver stunningly detailed results even with A3 prints. I know that because my wife still uses 12 MP Nikons (D300S and D700), and you could easily sell her prints to anybody as the result of a 40 MP camera. But 12 MP might be hard to sell today, that's why Sony never came out with an updated "S" until now. High MP count is totally overrated for 35mm format cameras, but people want it. And then they feed mostly Instagram and produce a lot of CO2 and heat, because the processors of their computers have to process and convert those monster pixel images into smaller sizes.


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## Jasonmc89 (Jan 21, 2020)

jam05 said:


> People wont be walking about Tokyo with a 1DXIII.


Why?


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## Kit. (Jan 21, 2020)

jam05 said:


> People wont be walking about Tokyo with a 1DXIII.


They will be walking with a smartphone.


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## tron (Jan 21, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> But, having an R and 5DIV as a backup will not work as a backup situation, at least not with the RF lens. What do you do, when your R breaks for some reason? You can't use your new RF lens on your 5DIV. I know that such situation is theoretical, but that's what 2 card slots and/or backup cameras are for anyway (meaning we did not face any failuers in that regards yet).


I am not a pro so no worries. Also, I was not talking about backup but more about best camera for the case. When visiting abroad museums I have to carry a small bag to be allowed in so I carry one camera anyway. The only difference is the use of one slot which will be new to me after a long time. But I carry a portable card copier with me. It doesn't solve a card failure issue but frequent backups somehow make up for a part of it. But the key word is not a pro. When I go for birding and have a car so a lot of space I get 2 DSLRs with me.


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## jedy (Jan 21, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> A7III = 24 megapixels = less for less money. There are always trade offs. I happily take the slower frame rate, better skin tones, and more megapixels over what Sony offers for the price difference... not to mention menus, ergonomics, and glass.
> 
> You sure do mention Sony an awful lot in your posts. Hmmmm...


I own an A7III. Not a fanboy as I have no brand loyalty. Mainly bought one because of the excellent Voigtlander lenses. I am really hoping Canon do bring out some quality cameras this year as competition is good for us end users. I don’t use Canon FF mirrorless because it’s still relatively new and doesn’t offer anything for my needs yet, especially native lens choices. If people prefer the R over A7III then there’s nothing wrong with that, it’s just people’s personal choice. I do read this site from time to time as I’m interested what camera tech Canon may be bringing out. FYI, Sony get mentioned an awful lot on these forums, often very negatively. I just happened to respond to a few recently. I usually don’t do much posting here but the talk has been about new Canon cameras which is exciting.


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## canonnews (Jan 21, 2020)

jam05 said:


> Sure they do. Its marketing. The Summer Olympics is THE marketing showcase for cameras. Always has been. Much respect for Photokina but its not even in the league as the Summer Olympics



The Olympics has always been a high end showcase of Canon / Nikon technology and corresponding NPS and CPS programs.

That's what every press release, every during the event articles from Canon / Nikon have been about. It hasn't been about the 5D line or the 6D line - it's the top flagships.

It's maybe not what people carry around - but it's the showcase.

Canon has 3 major events this year - it's a once in a 4 year marketing year for Canon - so while they are going to go all in for the Olympics for the 1 series, as they have with the 1DX Mark III, you can bet that they will fill CP+, PhotoKina and Canon Expo with the best they can.


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## bbb34 (Jan 21, 2020)

jam05 said:


> Nobody is gonna be walking all around Tokyo with a 1DXIII. Ya gotta be kidding me if you believe that.



Nobody???

The very most likely place for a bunch of photographers wandering around the city with a 1DXIII will be Tokyo! Have you been there?


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## Trankilstef (Jan 21, 2020)

The original article had been posted yesterday, and the last sentence said "_More to come a bit later today_ "... But nothing came or did I miss something?


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## BillB (Jan 21, 2020)

jam05 said:


> Nobody is gonna be walking all around Tokyo with a 1DXIII. Ya gotta be kidding me if you believe that.


There will always be somebody who will.


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## Quarkcharmed (Jan 21, 2020)

Trankilstef said:


> The original article had been posted yesterday, and the last sentence said "_More to come a bit later today_ "... But nothing came or did I miss something?


Every day is today.
CanonRumors guy knows how to fuel our interest.


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## Architect1776 (Jan 21, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Crop sensor = 22.30mm X 14.90mm = 332mm ²
> FF sensor = 35.8mm x 23.9mm = 856 mm²
> 
> 856/332 = 2.58
> ...



Thank you.
Then make a FF camera with a 82 mp sensor for scenery and then a crop mode at 32 mp at 12 fps for birders.


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## tron (Jan 21, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Every day is today.
> CanonRumors guy knows how to fuel our interest.


The only reliable rumors are the ones a week before the announcements.

Everything else is click bait (more or less). But, there are many members who contribute really useful technical information/expertise and/or pictures and this is the reason I like this forum.


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## canonnews (Jan 21, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Crop sensor = 22.30mm X 14.90mm = 332mm ²
> FF sensor = 35.8mm x 23.9mm = 856 mm²
> 
> 856/332 = 2.58
> ...



while in essence that's correct. it's a little hard to scale in actuality. As far as we know anyways, Canon's APS-C sensors are done on a 4 metal (copper being the forth) 180nm process. while the full frame sensors are done on 300nm. Yes, Canon has had copper in their APS-C sensors for almost as long as Sony has. One of the reasons, Canon has essentially caught up to Sony in terms of DR,etc.

So simply scaling is a little more problematic unless canon is now using 180nm process and line for full frame sensors, with they haven't in the past. There may be issues with producing larger sensors on that line. That line was originally geared to powershot small sensors - so who knows what limitations it has.


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## DannyPwins (Jan 21, 2020)

erader said:


> hell of a deal. for my work EOSR = 5d4.


Yea I couldn’t pass it up. I like both cameras. They’re similar but still different. My 5d4 is still going to be my main body though.


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## Jim Corbett (Jan 21, 2020)

jam05 said:


> Nobody is gonna be walking all around Tokyo with a 1DXIII. Ya gotta be kidding me if you believe that.


You gimme one, and I'll parkour with it all across Asia!


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## mjg79 (Jan 21, 2020)

justaCanonuser said:


> Pretty sure that Canon will not directly cooperate with Zeiss or Voigtlander, they never did before (as far as I know). I think they are too proud of their proven ability to make very good lenses by themselves. Plus, there were always offerings from other manufacturers for the EF mount, Sigma, Tampon, Tonika... Zeiss without direct cooperation. So they can rely on the other manufacturers to come up with lenses for the RF mount, including manual focusing lenses, - IF Canon manages to get a big enough share of the FF ML market. (I am pretty sure they will.)
> 
> Sony had to be more open in terms of cooperation when they started with their A7 series, since a fast growth of a decent, attractive lens selection for their E mount was vital for establishing their new camera line. Plus, the first FF lenses from Sony were mostly quite mediocre quality, what has changed in the past years, now they really do serious business. Btw I always have to silently giggle when I see their shiny, much too white lenses. Sony behaves like a hip hopper who managed to successfully overcome his poor roots, made a lot of fresh money, and who now tries to look like old money



The reason I had asked was I am sure I read years and years ago when Zeiss released the ZE lenses that they had worked with Canon. If you cast your mind back to those days people buying cheap Tamron and Sigma glass would often worry about how the next year's camera would break compatibility etc and the lenses cease to work. I would be surprised if Zeiss released lenses that put consumers in that position but I have googled it and can't find any reference to it so maybe I am wrong.

Also Zeiss produced some pretty great AF glass for Sony's A-mount and everyone used to say we couldn't have it in EF mount because Zeiss wouldn't do the "reverse engineering" approach that Sigma did. Yet Zeiss the then released the ZE lenses...

As for Sony - I am maybe a bit less cynical! It's a strange company really. I worked in sound tech for years and have some respect for their equipment. Their attitude was often terrible when it came to making things proprietary etc and clearly they were extremely arrogant but they also made some great products. The company has changed hugely though.

I happen to think they have got it right for the modern era and Nikon and Canon are both in the 1990s with their thinking in terms of third parties. Two things changed a lot - manufacturing ability has now spread far and wide, Apple can go to a factory in China and get anything made to whatever spec they want - if required and paid for it will be the highest spec and accuracy you can get anywhere in the world. Yes much is cheap rubbish but Apple gets the best. No longer is manufacturing a secret that only a handful of companies understand (design and marketing is different of course).

The next change has been software and the internet. Firmware updates, AF software and code, all the stuff is now freely available, Sigma can have it within seconds and can have any engineer over the entire globe work on it and spread it to their customers for free and isntantly - this opening up of knowledge has radically changed the relationship between customer and manufacturer.

Sony grasped this. As did Apple. Curiously those two were the absolute worst companies going in terms of arrogantly doing everything themselves. But Apple with their "made for iPhone" system and Sony licensing Sigma, Tamron and Voigtlander have adapted better to the modern world. Their approach lets them keep some control on quality while seeing their ecosystem expand. Why would Apple want to make every last possible weird accessory for iPhones? Why would Sony wish to make a manual focus 21mm 1.4, a cheap light 28-75/2.8 or a giant heavy Art style lens when other companies can do it and let Sony concentrate on the higher volume sellers. As long as they can maintain quality there is no harm I think.

In 1995 the Canon and Nikon approach made sense, the third party stuff was often rubbish. But these days? Nobody can say the new Voigtlander or Sigma lenses are rubbish. And for many those are now reasons to buy into the system. I would love to have some of the new light small Voigtlander glass for travel but I have no interest in buying a Sony or Leica camera so I am stuck.

Your comments about sony's often strange taste, I concur with. They have always been a bit that way, a bit trying too hard to appear like they re not trying hard. As you said, like a rapper in a Rolls Royce, it just never looks quite right!


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## mjg79 (Jan 21, 2020)

I think like many here I am desperately hoping Canon release a camera with IBIS. I will enjoy mounting some old rangefinder glass, some old Nikon Ai glass and it also will mean I can happily carry on using my EF 24-70L II and not have to find the money for the RF IS version...

But has there been any kind of official promise of this? I have this nagging feeling that, away from message boards like this one, 99% of people don't care about IBIS as long as the lens has IS. And Canon has gone out of their way with RF glass to stabilise it. Even the 35/1.8, the 15-35/2.8 and 24-70/2.8, lenses that Sony and Nikon for example are not stabilising, all have IS.

Indeed it is only the 1.2 primes and the 28-70 so far that don't have IS. Most professional applications for those lenses won't rely on IBIS - the 28-70 is clearly for events where any serious photographer will keep the shutter speed well above the minimum (he won't want to have to explain to the bride that he is sorry the key photo is blurry, he wanted to shoot at ISO 100 to show off on canonrumors, so tried to shoot at 1/10 second - without or without IBIS that would be stupid) and the 1.2 lenses will be used in a lot of posed portraits etc where lighting is usually controlled.

Nikon some time before the release of the Z mount promised IBIS. But have we actually got any real reason to assume Canon will offer it? And if they do, doesn't it seem strange they put IS in a key lens like the 15-35/2.8, a top line lens they will be selling for the next decade, if their upcoming cameras will have IBIS anyway? They just made that lens unnecessarily expensive, heavy and large and made the optical design far more difficult. Canon doesn't usually make things hard for themselves.

Maybe I've completely missed some point here!


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## mjg79 (Jan 21, 2020)

justaCanonuser said:


> Looks like you entered photography after 2010. In the decade before, Canon was leading the pixel race, and the 5D II was the first FF camera with HD video, which was a game changer in video business. Nikon particularly was in trouble. Canon advanced CMOS sensor tech when all other manufacturers preferred CCD, because CMOS was said to be too noisy - but in the end it opened up leading video capabilities for Canon back then. Unfortunately, after 2010, Canon really slowed down sitting on their laurels and let Sony pull ahead. Btw this typical for electronics industry, Sony had the better CMOS technology because they invested later in their production lines. I just mention this because such an oscillation between being very innovative and very conservative in the camera sector is quite typical for Canon's history. So let's see what future will bring.



The big difference from before 2010 to now is Sony's approach. They have completely changed the rules of the game, brining in huge economies of scale and massive investment to sensor fabrication, leveraging all the tens of millions of phone and other consumer sensors they sell. 

Sensor fabrication is a bit like memory production - it's an area where the theory of economies of scale actually works out almost like in a textbook. Canon was indeed often ahead of Nikon, but that was a commercial light heavyweight fighting a middleweight. Now there's a big heavyweight and I am not so sure Canon can simply click their fingers and get ahead again in sensors.

I actually don't think it matters and will matter less and less. The clean shadows when raising 5 stops was always irrelevant to 99% of photographers. Sony's ability to offer high frame rates and high resolution in one has been good for them but that is something Canon will gradually approach.

But you can't just assume that the way competition was when it was largely Nikon v Canon will be repeated when it's Sony v Canon. The sums of money Sony has sunk into their sensor business is huge, literally billions of dollars they have borrowed and invested over the past decade.They spotted the growth in smartphone cameras, they realised that almost every element of modern life, from security systems to self driving cars were going to require advanced sensors and they made a wise call.

As tech matures of course it spreads out so I don't see any real danger for Canon, they have probably been through the worst of it around 2010-2015, I suspect it will become like smartphone CPUs - once they are all good enough it ceases to matter so much.


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## Jasonmc89 (Jan 21, 2020)

Architect1776 said:


> Thank you.
> Then make a FF camera with a 82 mp sensor for scenery and then a crop mode at 32 mp at 12 fps for birders.


That’s what I want. But more like 16+ FPS for crop mode on a mirrorless.


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## tron (Jan 21, 2020)

*mjg79 *Interesting analysis. I only have to say that in my opinion it was smart move that Canon put IS on their 2.8 zooms (15-35 and 24-70) because it is exactly what could increase their sales. Even the 70-200 got a huge reduction in weight and a variable reduction in size depending on zoom position. I believe they made their mirrorless system even more competitive and appealing (At least it worked with me who use these two zooms for low light interiors) Also if I recall correctly they have a patent regarding the IS and IBIS cooperation. So add the extreme 28-70 f/2 zoom and the two f/1.2 prime lenses with superb IQ and you have quite a start in mirrorless systems irrespective of cameras which anyway will soon be replaced with better ones. It's a win win.


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## Gazwas (Jan 21, 2020)

Forget the Jack of all trades 5D camera as they are always a compramise.

Specifically targetted cameras that do what they are indended extremely well. 

1. High resolution detail, low ISO optimised with extended DR.
2. Low resolution camera with excellect video codecs/features/DR. 

Then later on bring in the mid reolution high frame rate/high ISO verion when we have more long RF telephotos for the 5D/1DX events shooters.

I'm hoping for a high res camera and separtare video focused RF Canon please.


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## mjg79 (Jan 21, 2020)

tron said:


> *mjg79 *Interesting analysis. I only have to say that in my opinion it was smart move that Canon put IS on their 2.8 zooms (15-35 and 24-70) because it is exactly what could increase their sales. Even the 70-200 got a huge reduction in weight and a variable reduction in size depending on zoom position. I believe they made their mirrorless system even more competitive and appealing (At least it worked with me who use these two zooms for low light interiors) Also if I recall correctly they have a patent regarding the IS and IBIS cooperation. So add the extreme 28-70 f/2 zoom and the two f/1.2 prime lenses with superb IQ and you have quite a start in mirrorless systems irrespective of cameras which anyway will soon be replaced with better ones. It's a win win.



Sounds sensible. Much as I dislike the weight I would consider the 28-70/2 instead of the 24-70 if there is a body with IBIS.

I believe some of the amazing performance of the olympus micro four-thirds stabilisation comes from the combination of IBIS and IS so I am sure the two can work together.

It will be interesting to see how it pans out anyway. I remember years ago on here with people saying "there's no way in 2014 Canon can possibly release a camera without IBIS" some joked that Leica would have IBIS before Canon and lo and behold it happened. I would be surprised if in the coming years it doesn't arrive at some point but I certainly won't be shocked if Canon doesn't bring it this year - hopefully I am wrong!


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## slclick (Jan 21, 2020)

Gazwas said:


> Forget the Jack of all trades 5D camera as they are always a compramise.
> 
> Specifically targetted cameras that do what they are indended extremely well.
> 
> ...


Nice way to alienate a HUGE group of pro shooters.The 5D line has been the wedding and event shooters go to gear for years. No reason to stop that because of Sony. Is that what 'some people' think Canon might be doing here? Bowing to Sony? Canon will do as Canon sees fit...old school, rock solid.


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## Gazwas (Jan 21, 2020)

slclick said:


> Nice way to alienate a HUGE group of pro shooters.The 5D line has been the wedding and event shooters go to gear for years. No reason to stop that because of Sony. Is that what 'some people' think Canon might be doing here? Bowing to Sony? Canon will do as Canon sees fit...old school, rock solid. Meanwhile, dictation software has a long way to go it seems.


Why, would they not be interested in a mid reolution high frame rate/high ISO R camera as I mentioned?

Is seems to me lately it's pretty much all Canon offer - cameras for sports, wedding and events shooters. Nothing of interest for video shooters unless you step up to the cinema line (no RF mount yet) and nothing high resolution other than the aging 5Ds. 

I don't think Sony has anything to do with it and more to do with smart phones. Make targeted camera the best you can and let the iPhone etc be the jack of all trades device.


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## justaCanonuser (Jan 21, 2020)

mjg79 said:


> The big difference from before 2010 to now is Sony's approach. They have completely changed the rules of the game, brining in huge economies of scale and massive investment to sensor fabrication, leveraging all the tens of millions of phone and other consumer sensors they sell.
> 
> Sensor fabrication is a bit like memory production - it's an area where the theory of economies of scale actually works out almost like in a textbook. Canon was indeed often ahead of Nikon, but that was a commercial light heavyweight fighting a middleweight. Now there's a big heavyweight and I am not so sure Canon can simply click their fingers and get ahead again in sensors.
> 
> ...


Canon's revenue in 2019 was 3.951 trillion Yen, Sony's 8.665 trillion Yen, so Sony is a bit more than double size of Canon. So, Sony is indeed a heavier weight, but overall they depend much more on consumer markets than Canon, who does also a lot of business for industrial partners. If the worst happens, they could start buying Sony sensors, like Nikon and like Canon already does with smaller sensors. The disadvantage for us customers then would be a lack of competition, Sony would establish a sensor monopole. Monopoles are always bad for economics. So let's hope that the David Canon can stand against Goliath Sony. A strong competition is important for further technical progress.


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## sanj (Jan 22, 2020)

jam05 said:


> People wont be walking about Tokyo with a 1DXIII.


Rubbish


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## PureClassA (Jan 22, 2020)

canonnews said:


> I thought about this .. is it really going to be that much better than oversampling from 20MP or 24MP?
> 
> versus taking a low MP sensor?
> 
> ...



Enjoy your site! Keep up the good work!

I shoot video now on an EOS R and previously on the DX2 (still a bit on that from time to time). I dont mind shooting the DX2 for video except for 2 conditions. 

1) No HDMI out for 4k (I'd much prefer to record directly to ProRes to avoid having to go through media encoder in post)
2) Kinda bulky and cumbersome to balance on my Ronin M

So the EOS R eliminates BOTH those issues, but I lose 4k60 (which I wasn't using frequently) and I get a 1.78x crop. I can deal with those issues better than no external recording. On a tripod, sure the DX2 is great especially if I want to get the slo-mo 4k.

If I had an EOS R body type with a FF sensor read in 4k in addition to what I already have with it now, I'd gladly get one. Even if it didn't have 4k60. The Crop on the DX2 has never been an issue, as its only 1.3x. Really not too bad. But if Canon IS building what is being rumored here as a truly video centric EOS R body... then eah give me 12MP because then that same Digic X (not having to sample 20MP and then squish) could get faster frame rates or even reduce heat since Id suspect you aren't working the CPU as hard.

But look, if they just use the DX3 sensor and basically make a Video Feature Set Only DX3 in an EOS R body... OK. I dont want/need to replace my DX2. Kinda what the rumor is making this sound like, but if they want to use a 12 MP sensor, no binning, and has extreme low light performance... BETTER


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## PureClassA (Jan 22, 2020)

canonnews said:


> versus something like the 20MP 1DX sensor that can output nearly 6K RAW for you to post process down to 4K to your hearts content?



RAW probably wont get used all that often by most folks. i think that was a really smart hat-tip however to the higher end users who want cameras in a smaller form factor compared to a big Arri or RED rig to get high quality RAW footage in Log that grades extremely well with those major cameras RAW footage. Wht we've seen Canon DSLRs w/ ML used in a number of major films to get in places other cameras cant


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## PureClassA (Jan 22, 2020)

Joules said:


> Higher resolutions don't correspond to significant impacts on low light performance though.
> 
> A lower resolution sensor will most likely allow very quick read out, meaning very little rolling shutter



The A7S has AWFUL rolling shutter so low MP doesnt make global shutter a given. That said if this Digic X is as fast as they say, perhaps it CAN achieve global shutter on perfect 8.8 MP full frame 4k . Hence another reason you dont want a bigger sensor that oversamples


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## PureClassA (Jan 23, 2020)

justaCanonuser said:


> Canon's revenue in 2019 was 3.951 trillion Yen, Sony's 8.665 trillion Yen, so Sony is a bit more than double size of Canon.



Actually they are about 3x the size of Canon. Market Cap today:
Canon $30B (USD)
Sony $90B (USD)

And it’s Sony’s stock that has soars this past year while Canon’s has stagnated. But Sony has obviously a much broader product line that supports it and the market is also anticipating the huge PS5 release later this year


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## canonnews (Jan 23, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> The A7S has AWFUL rolling shutter so low MP doesnt make global shutter a given. That said if this Digic X is as fast as they say, perhaps it CAN achieve global shutter on perfect 8.8 MP full frame 4k . Hence another reason you dont want a bigger sensor that oversamples


DIGIC X has zip to do with global shutter.


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## PureClassA (Jan 23, 2020)

canonnews said:


> DIGIC X has zip to do with global shutter.


I assumed processing power related to how much raw data could be handled in a single burst as opposed to a rolling readout. I could be mistaken. I understand however he shutter itself also has to physically be able to accommodate, and whether Canon would equip the sensor with this is another conversation.


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## Kit. (Jan 23, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> I assumed processing power related to how much raw data could be handled in a single burst as opposed to a rolling readout.


It couldn't be. Even with global shutter, the readout will still be rolling.


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## Michael Clark (Jan 25, 2020)

Josh Leavitt said:


> The Sony A7 S rival model sounds pretty interesting. I've been hoping Canon would give us a video-centric camera for a while now. There's a lot of potential market share to be gained here among the filmmaker and content creator crowd. Canon has a leg up on there competitors when it comes to RF glass and the peerless dual pixel AF system their cameras use.
> 
> Things I would expect and like to see for such a camera are: unlimited record times, dual UHS-II card slots, headphone & mic jack, dual gain sensor, fully articulating touchscreen, uncropped full-frame recording with DPAF functionality, C-Log profiles, on par recording modes/options of the Panasonic S1H, and IBIS (of course).



I'd like Ferrari to release a competitor to the Toyota Camry, too. Priced like the Camry with performance like the 488.

Just because I want that doesn't mean it's going to happen, though.


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## Michael Clark (Jan 25, 2020)

john1970 said:


> I think everyone needs to realize that Canon and Sony both make excellent equipment for photography. I have used Canon 1Dx Mk2 with their 400 mm f2.8 III lenses as well as Sony A9 II with a vertical grip along with their 400 mm f2.8 lens. Both take excellent pictures and for me both balance well in the hand. Without a vertical grip the Sony alpha cameras are uncomfortable for me to use, but adding the vertical grip solves that issue at least for me. Personally, I like the fact that the a9II with vertical grip weighs 1+ lb less than 1Dx Mk2. At least for me as I get older any loss of mass is appreciated.



If you've used the 1D X Mark II so much, why haven't you noticed it's the 1D X Mark II, not the 1Dx Mark II? Dx is a Nikon thing.


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## Michael Clark (Jan 25, 2020)

bluenoser1993 said:


> Anyone want to speculate whether or not the new R bodies will use the BG-E22 grip, or a new grip model? I've gotten to the point of wanting a grip, but reluctant to order from the USA at $250 (order from USA because it's $600 in Canada), only to have it worth less than $100 when the R is replaced in the lineup later this year maybe.



If Canon follows form, it will be different. I've had good luck with quality third party grips like Vello via B&H. In fact, the most recent issue I've had with a grip was the Canon BG-E20 included as a promotional item with my 5D Mark IV.


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## Michael Clark (Jan 25, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Canon always (I believe) bring out a new grip for each body, it is a sure fire money maker for them so why would they change that?



In the 5/7 series they tend to do that. In the x0D and xx0D series they've tended to reuse the grip for a couple of models before moving on.


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## Michael Clark (Jan 25, 2020)

canonnews said:


> these cameras have zero to do with the olympics. Canon will do an announcement in May for PhotoKina.
> 
> The main Olympic camera is already released and Canon will be pumping that camera a ton during the Olympics.



The main Olympic camera has been _*announced*_. It will be released in February 2020.


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## bluenoser1993 (Jan 25, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> If Canon follows form, it will be different. I've had good luck with quality third party grips like Vello via B&H. In fact, the most recent issue I've had with a grip was the Canon BG-E20 included as a promotional item with my 5D Mark IV.


Does third party grip for the R exist? I haven’t found one.


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## Josh Leavitt (Jan 25, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> I'd like Ferrari to release a competitor to the Toyota Camry, too. Priced like the Camry with performance like the 488.
> 
> Just because I want that doesn't mean it's going to happen, though.



If you don't mind my asking, what gave you the impression I thought Canon's hypothetical video-oriented camera would be released at a budget price point? I would fully expect it to be priced between $3,499 and $3,999 if it had the specs I was hoping for.


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## Michael Clark (Jan 26, 2020)

Josh Leavitt said:


> If you don't mind my asking, what gave you the impression I thought Canon's hypothetical video-oriented camera would be released at a budget price point? I would fully expect it to be priced between $3,499 and $3,999 if it had the specs I was hoping for.



Because the Sony α7 S it's reportedly directly aimed at is a sub $2,000 model?


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## Michael Clark (Jan 26, 2020)

bluenoser1993 said:


> Does third party grip for the R exist? I haven’t found one.



I do not know, I haven't looked for one.


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## Josh Leavitt (Jan 26, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Because the Sony α7 S it's reportedly directly aimed at is a sub $2,000 model?


Yes, the a7S II is presently on sale for $1,999 after over four years in the market. It launched at $2,999. The successive a7S III will likely launch at the same price or more - it now has to compete with the Panasonic S1H. Canon's variant will need to pack an equal amount of features to these two cameras if it's going to compete in the same market space. That won't come cheap.


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## Del Paso (Jan 26, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> I do not know, I haven't looked for one.


Yes, it does, made by Meike.
But it's NOT a battery-grip, simply an "extension" for the pinkie, mounted underneath the body.


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## Del Paso (Jan 26, 2020)

bluenoser1993 said:


> Does third party grip for the R exist? I haven’t found one.


A grip exists, made by Meike.
It's kind of an "extension", mounted underneath the body, but NO battery-grip!


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