# Can we all send a complaint to Canon to fix the AF-Assist focusing on the 5D3?



## RayValdez360 (Nov 5, 2012)

I went to every major Canon forum and a lot of people are saying that the 5D3 focuses slower with the AF-Assist beam on when using at least a 600ex with the camera in dim or dark situations when this topic is brought up. I do club photography and I find it embarrassing to stand around for a long time trying to get a focus lock. Sometimes people walk away from the shot or look at me like I am crazy. The only way I know how to focus faster in situations is to play with the AF-point and move it towards the red light on the subject. Lets make a petition or something because I also own a 7D and it focuses in an instant with the same flash. It is the camera!


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## bycostello (Nov 5, 2012)

and the canon m... big let down..


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## pwp (Nov 5, 2012)

There is absolutely no question about this 5D3 low light AF assist performance issue with either 580EXII or 600EX-RT. It's real. It's embarrassingly slow. In some situations it's approaching professional suicide. 

Everything else about the 5D3 AF is stellar and a huge improvement over the 5D2 & 5DC, but this particular issue is nothing short of excruciating for photographers and their increasingly impatient subjects. My hope is for the promised 5D3 firmware update scheduled for sometime next year to deliver a solution. 

There are suggested work-arounds including switching _off _AF-assist and the one outlined by the OP. Very clunky and a serious diversion from the creative process of squeezing off the killer shot of that perfect moment.

To quote Peter Finch's character Howard Beale in the brilliant movie Network, Beale galvanizes the nation, persuading his viewers to shout out of their windows "I'm as mad as hell, and I'm not going to take this anymore!".

-PW


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## zim (Nov 5, 2012)

How much slower? Is it possible to put a time or percentage against this?
I have to admit I was unaware of this issue. I want to get a 5D3 next year but I will absolutly be using it in low light flash situations, off camera lighting not an option. Is this a show stopper?


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## RayValdez360 (Nov 5, 2012)

I would say a normal af time is less than a second and this problem makes it last a few seconds. maybe 2-5. Once it gets a focus lock it is good for the next few shots. The percentage is almost 100% of the time. I am almost afraid to use that combo at the club. This shot right here took too long to take then I wanted to do one more shot and the "Luigi" got impatient and left. The images are beautiful from the camera, so i hope they recognize and fix this problem.


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## zim (Nov 5, 2012)

Thanks for the info Ray
2 - 5 seconds!!!! I can manual focus quicker than that. Maybe the tape from the light leak fix is interfering with AF assist  
For me that's getting on for not fit for purpose. I look forward to seeing if/how this is addressed


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## pwp (Nov 5, 2012)

zim said:


> How much slower? Is it possible to put a time or percentage against this?
> I have to admit I was unaware of this issue. I want to get a 5D3 next year but I will absolutly be using it in low light flash situations, off camera lighting not an option. Is this a show stopper?



It's not a show stopper, but certainly something to be aware of if your work involves shooting with flash in very low light venues. The other significant slowdown factor with the 5D3 in very dark shooting environments is the non-illuminated AF points. So while hunting & waiting for AF, you've got to somehow keep track of your black focus point. In a situation where people are moving even slightly, the black AF points and the slow AF adds to the degradation of the spontaneity that is so vital in event photography.

But lets be clear. This scenario only kicks in when you're shooting in very low light locations. Just about everywhere else, the 5D3 AF is just fantastic.

-PW


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## RayValdez360 (Nov 5, 2012)

zim said:


> Thanks for the info Ray
> 2 - 5 seconds!!!! I can manual focus quicker than that. Maybe the tape from the light leak fix is interfering with AF assist
> For me that's getting on for not fit for purpose. I look forward to seeing if/how this is addressed


 I wish I could manually focus in the dark. LOL


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## DB (Nov 6, 2012)

Get a Yongnuo YN565 flash instead - AF assist light is very effective - and won't look out of place in a Nightclub (if you've ever used one you'll know what I mean )


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## dr croubie (Nov 6, 2012)

Does this happen also with Live-view Contrast-detect?
Normally contrast-detect is a lot slower than phase for most situations, but maybe it's an answer?
(yes, i know holding a camera at arms' length instead of to your face doesn't look as 'professional' but if it gets the job done...)

Or, seeing as you're using flash anyway, how about just a near-enough-MF and f/11?


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## risc32 (Nov 6, 2012)

i missed a fair bit of shots for this very reason at a wedding shoot a week or two back. I only tried it with my 580. maybe i should have swapped that out for another model? i wouldn't have thought so, but between this and the black AF points, i'm about ready to try anything. I still can't believe that owners of the 7d were never bothered by the black AF points. that's just silly.


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## dr croubie (Nov 6, 2012)

risc32 said:


> I still can't believe that owners of the 7d were never bothered by the black AF points. that's just silly.



Then silly I am.
Or maybe that's just me, I've never shot much low-light where black AF points would be a problem (focus just hunted too much, now I always MF in the dark, much better hit-rate).
Or maybe it's because having 3x the amount of AF points, they're just more crammed together so they're taking up too much space in the VF?


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## bvukich (Nov 6, 2012)

DB said:


> Get a Yongnuo YN565 flash instead - AF assist light is very effective - and won't look out of place in a Nightclub (if you've ever used one you'll know what I mean )



Lol... for sure. When I had one people weren't sure if I was taking a picture or lasing a target for an airstrike!


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## tron (Nov 6, 2012)

zim said:


> Thanks for the info Ray
> Maybe the tape from the light leak fix is interfering with AF assist


 ;D ;D ;D


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## DB (Nov 6, 2012)

bvukich said:


> DB said:
> 
> 
> > Get a Yongnuo YN565 flash instead - AF assist light is very effective - and won't look out of place in a Nightclub (if you've ever used one you'll know what I mean )
> ...



;D Special forces in Afghanistan use them to light up targets....in the daytime!...so the A10 Warthogs know where to aim their 30mm cannons (cuts down on friendly-fire )


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## bvukich (Nov 6, 2012)

DB said:


> bvukich said:
> 
> 
> > DB said:
> ...



And if they miss with the cannons... at least the bad guys will be blind!


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## Louis (Nov 7, 2012)

Im so happy I found this thread! I recently wrote a post about this and no one replied, thought I was mad, god, I did a job a month ago and I couldn't focus, I was sweating, praying to get focus in time, this really needs to be fixed, does anyone know if the problem exists with the new 600 speedlite?


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## Mehmetski (Nov 7, 2012)

Check page 77 of the manual. There is a mention of this, I think:

* With Single-Point Spot AF, focusing with the Speedlite's AF-Assist beam may be difficult
* If the camera cannot focus with the EOS-dedicated Speedlite's AF-Assist beam, set the AF area selection mode to Single-Point AF (Manual Selection) and select the center AF point to focus.

This sucks


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## westr70 (Nov 7, 2012)

pwp said:


> zim said:
> 
> 
> > How much slower? Is it possible to put a time or percentage against this?
> ...




That's been my experience too. I do BIF and miss those great shots with darker backgrounds which I used to get those with my 7D. Thanks to the OP, because I thought I was being too critical of my own skills or was missing some setting.


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## Louis (Nov 7, 2012)

Canon really need to address this issue, I'm hoping they get to see this complaint,


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## jonathan7007 (Nov 8, 2012)

Paul (PWP), others with the 1dMk4:
Is the 1dMk4 body any better at this available-darkness fast-focus-capture? (with flash up top...) I am asking if the "assist" functions better. 

People with 5DMk3's in this thread have used several work-arounds, one of them straining to focus manually and getting better hit rate. Yikes!! The other work around was a Yongnuo 565. Anyone know if this is also helped by the 568? I have to decide between Yongnuo and Canon speedlights -- Odin synch or Canon 600-style included radio.

I too have found the black points to be tough in some situations. I shot a dress rehearsal (no flash, of course) and the points get pretty lost in dark clothing. I did more with my 5Dmk2 on that set. Further, close-in party stuff was sometimes difficult. The soft red alert in my 5DMk3 for focus doesn't always seem to work the way I expect. 

So, is the 1DMk4 better at this?

jonathan7007


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## RayValdez360 (Nov 8, 2012)

Mehmetski said:


> Check page 77 of the manual. There is a mention of this, I think:
> 
> * With Single-Point Spot AF, focusing with the Speedlite's AF-Assist beam may be difficult
> * If the camera cannot focus with the EOS-dedicated Speedlite's AF-Assist beam, set the AF area selection mode to Single-Point AF (Manual Selection) and select the center AF point to focus.
> ...


 I never use single point spot but from reading that it seems like the auto focus points might be too small and are missing the assist beam? Is this the problem???


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## Mehmetski (Nov 8, 2012)

RayValdez360 said:


> Mehmetski said:
> 
> 
> > Check page 77 of the manual. There is a mention of this, I think:
> ...




I'm not sure. I haven't tested extensively it yet.
I just got the 5DIII and reading your post reminded me of that section of the manual. My first upcoming clubgig is this weekend and I'll check out then.
I did a couple of quick shots at home with absolute darkness with the 5DIII and the 580EXII and it focuses pretty quick, I didn't notice any lag. I used the center and outer edges with AF expansion and SP-AF. Does the AF assist beam cover all the AF points of the 5DIII? Maybe that is the problem.


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## pwp (Nov 8, 2012)

jonathan7007 said:


> Paul (PWP), others with the 1dMk4:
> Is the 1dMk4 body any better at this available-darkness fast-focus-capture? (with flash up top...) I am asking if the "assist" functions better.
> jonathan7007



I love my 1D4. In most circumstances the AF is stellar. In the very low light situations being referred to in this thread, the 1D4 AF either on it's own or with an AF assist beam its a piece of shirt. So working in low light venues with the Mk4 and the 5D3 I'm struggling...

-PW


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## dr croubie (Nov 8, 2012)

pwp said:


> jonathan7007 said:
> 
> 
> > Paul (PWP), others with the 1dMk4:
> ...



Seeing as we're talking about the 1D mk4.
The black AF point "issue", afaik, is how the 7D has been operating since day 1 (i've never found it a problem, and obviously noone else who bought a 7D found it a problem either).
It was only when the 5D3 and 1DX operated the exact same way that people started complaining. Does the 1D mk4 work that way as well?


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## pwp (Nov 8, 2012)

DB said:


> Get a Yongnuo YN565 flash instead - AF assist light is very effective - and won't look out of place in a Nightclub (if you've ever used one you'll know what I mean )



I have never been one for after-market or third party equipment, but can anyone else confirm that the Yongnuo YN565 spits out an AF Assist beam that solves the issue being discussed on this thread? If so, I'll get a couple of them in a heartbeat, just for dark venue jobs. 

Is it possible to hook up external batteries to the Yongnuo YN365? I run a Quantum Turbo T3 with the twin outputs at most functions. 

-PW


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## pwp (Nov 9, 2012)

dr croubie said:


> Seeing as we're talking about the 1D mk4.
> The black AF point "issue", afaik, is how the 7D has been operating since day 1 (I've never found it a problem, and obviously noone else who bought a 7D found it a problem either).
> It was only when the 5D3 and 1DX operated the exact same way that people started complaining. Does the 1D mk4 work that way as well?



Like every Canon DSLR except the 7D, 5D3 & 1DX the 1D Mk4 offers constantly illuminated red AF points. 

The 7D does have the black AF points, though the points are much larger than in the 5D3 & 1DX viewfinders, and perhaps more visible. It's great that the black AF points are a non-issue for you, but can you find an acceptance somewhere in your consciousness that it is a very real issue for a lot of shooters who work in different environments to you. 

-PW


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## Daniel Flather (Nov 9, 2012)

Interesting, I just tested this theory out in my garage in total darkness. With centre point AF, AF was snappy fast with the 600 flash. As I moved the AF point to the side my AF speed slowed, and on the very edge AF points it was horrible. But what blew me away was, if I set the AF to all points auto (the idiot mode) it would easily achieve focus with the side AF points. Odd.

Lens was the ef35 mm f1.4.


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## jonathan7007 (Nov 9, 2012)

Paul,
I believe the Yongnuo 565 is engineered for an external battery pack, but the 568 is not. The 565 had a slightly different ETTL capability/feature set than the 568, and pros were upset that the "better" 568 left off the battery pack connector. Look on those other threads that compare the YN's to the Canon5xx/600's. The sites that sell the Yongnuo's don't make model-to-model differences as clear as I'd like.

I have to see where this goes before deciding which flash upgrade to pursue, as there will be several units to buy to have the multiple reliable sources I want to take on location. Lotsa $$ affected.

jonathan7007


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## bvukich (Nov 9, 2012)

pwp said:


> Is it possible to hook up external batteries to the Yongnuo YN365? I run a Quantum Turbo T3 with the twin outputs at most functions.



Yes the YN565EX has the same connector as the 580EXII and works with the CP-E4 or clones.

It also cycles quite a bit faster than a 580EXII, fast enough that you have to be slightly conscious of head temperature lest you let out the magic smoke (like I did to mine after a week :'(, mine was also a very early production run one and I pushed it way harder than I would a flash that wasn't so inexpensive it's nearly disposable). Not saying you have to baby it or anything... but if you do almost continuous full pops for half an hour and it starts smelling funny, you probably shouldn't just change batteries and keep going.


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## PeterJ (Nov 9, 2012)

Mehmetski said:


> Check page 77 of the manual. There is a mention of this, I think:
> 
> * With Single-Point Spot AF, focusing with the Speedlite's AF-Assist beam may be difficult
> * If the camera cannot focus with the EOS-dedicated Speedlite's AF-Assist beam, set the AF area selection mode to Single-Point AF (Manual Selection) and select the center AF point to focus.
> ...


Remember that the 5D2 didn't have single point spot AF. I haven't done enough flash work with my 5D3 yet to comment decisively but the 7D didn't cope well in that mode either. I'm wondering if a lot of the complaints are 5D2 single-point users that have gone to single-point spot and find it doesn't work as well?

From the limited amount I've done so far I've been using AF point expansion and all is fine, and most of the time it's the center selected point that locks which would have been same result as a 5D2, or otherwise have got the shot on better contrast on an edge point and has all been good.


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## pwp (Nov 9, 2012)

OK thanks for the info on the Yongnuo YN565 being able to take an external battery pack. Good! That ticks one more box.

But can anyone verify whether the Yongnuo YN565 spits out an AF Assist beam that makes the 5D3 AF more reliable at very low light venues than the Canon 580EXII & 600EX-RT?

-PW


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## RLPhoto (Nov 9, 2012)

The squeaky wheel gets the grease I suppose.


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## jonathan7007 (Nov 10, 2012)

Paul caught the current unknown in this thread: 
_Has anyone been able to compare the assisted AF (in near dark conditions) of the YN565 to any of the Canon units?_ 

I'd love to see the comparison include 550EX units as well as 580EX(classic and II) as I am alternatives I am also considering these older flashes. The 550EX took a battery pack, which I consider a real plus. One of the contributors here, V8Beast, has had good experiences with these older units in the field and they hope that they offer the benefit of sturdier construction than the Yongnuos. 

Near dark shooting with YN565? YN568? Anyone?

jonathan7007


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## Louis (Nov 10, 2012)

It makes you wonder how extensive the testing is at Canon,

"Did you test the camera with a speedlite?"

R&D "Erm"


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 12, 2012)

I've found that if you half press the shutter button and wait for the AF light to and point to flash, it takes 3 sec or more. However, if I just press the shutter button down all the way, it focuses in about 1 second or less and fires with perfectly sharp focus.
It does this regardless of AF-Assist or not. So, if you are waiting for the AF- Assist to stop flashing to take the image, just press and hold the shutter button. It fires as soon as focus is reached rather than delaying another 2-3 seconds before the focus points light up.


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## gilmorephoto (Nov 12, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I've found that if you half press the shutter button and wait for the AF light to and point to flash, it takes 3 sec or more. However, if I just press the shutter button down all the way, it focuses in about 1 second or less and fires with perfectly sharp focus.
> It does this regardless of AF-Assist or not. So, if you are waiting for the AF- Assist to stop flashing to take the image, just press and hold the shutter button. It fires as soon as focus is reached rather than delaying another 2-3 seconds before the focus points light up.



Good to know. Thanks!


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## RayValdez360 (Nov 12, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I've found that if you half press the shutter button and wait for the AF light to and point to flash, it takes 3 sec or more.* However, if I just press the shutter button down all the way, it focuses in about 1 second or less and fires with perfectly sharp focus.*



I hope this is true for most situations. Everyone pleasure try this!


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## Mehmetski (Nov 12, 2012)

I've shot the first clubgig with the 5dIII this weekend. The combo was 5DIII+24-70II+580EXII and the lag with the AF beam is really terrible. I've used Single Point AF and AF Expansion throughout the night with usually the center AF points selected, the outer edges weren't event doable. For still subjects it was OK and not that very frustrating but when you want to capture that spontaneous moment in which you require almost instant focus, it just can't deliver.
The funny thing is if you disable the AF-Beam on camera than it focuses much much faster!


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## kpk1 (Nov 12, 2012)

And I thought that I'm the only one with this problem.
Here too, 5D3 with 600EX-RT focuses slower in the dark with the AF beam.
The rule with full shutter press is working but still anoying, when 5D2 focuses faster in the same conditions with the same 600EX.
So dear Canon could you just upgrade this instead of the price I paid ?


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## Louis (Nov 27, 2012)

wow guys great news!! please sign up to the Canon Forums! it looks like they are listening amazing!!

I posted up there and it seemed to be working!

here is the link, please please do your best to reply, 

http://forums.usa.canon.com/t5/EOS/5D3-AF-assist-beam-slower-focus/td-p/2277


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## dlleno (Nov 27, 2012)

Great start! I really hope that Mike the product expert can do more than just provide an SME presence on the forum to assist with understanding and using the equipment. He needs to be able to influence or at least inform the individuals that can apply resources to address this issue, and not just talk about it.


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## dlleno (Nov 28, 2012)

BTW -- I received this statement from from Canon sales/product support, when I asked specifically about the 5D3 utilization of the flash AF asssist, and if the 6D suffered from the same malady:

"... the camera does support the AF Assist Beam from the flash, so the EOS 6D should work the same as well."

interesting...


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## wickidwombat (Nov 29, 2012)

FYI the Yongnuo ST-E2 copy AF beam works really well on the 5Dmk3 for AF assist only however the problem is it doesnt work in the role of acually firing the flash it would seem something is out in the sync timing


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## digital paradise (Dec 2, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I've found that if you half press the shutter button and wait for the AF light to and point to flash, it takes 3 sec or more. However, if I just press the shutter button down all the way, it focuses in about 1 second or less and fires with perfectly sharp focus.
> It does this regardless of AF-Assist or not. So, if you are waiting for the AF- Assist to stop flashing to take the image, just press and hold the shutter button. It fires as soon as focus is reached rather than delaying another 2-3 seconds before the focus points light up.



I noticed this too but never really paid attention until I read this. Seems to work.


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## DeckardSolo (Dec 6, 2012)

I tested my 580ex2 and 600ex-rt on my Rebel T2i/550D and the Rebel is focusing at least 1/2 a second to a full second faster than my 5D3 in near pitch black at a blank wall at 8 feet.

What I noticed was regardless which flash the Rebel would focus during the 1st to 3rd IR beam pulse whereas the 5D3 focused on the 3rd or 4th pulse. Most significant though is the Rebel pulsed the IR beam at a much faster rate than the 5D3.

Edit: Tested the St-e2 also with the same result. IR pulses and focus are faster on my Rebel than my 5D3.


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## digital paradise (Dec 6, 2012)

My 5D3 has been within the 3 pulses based on the same conditions you described, most of the time about 3 on a new wall. It is much faster when repeating at the same distance. When I press the shutter all the way down it is about twice as fast. It works but I'm not sure how comfy I am with it.


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## digital paradise (Dec 7, 2012)

Post #28. ???

http://forums.usa.canon.com/t5/EOS/5D3-AF-assist-beam-slower-focus/m-p/6503#M747


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## digital paradise (Dec 7, 2012)

I am wondering about this. Even if Canon discovers an issue or knows about it how would they fix it? It appears to be a too small of a focus point, too large of a focus beam/grid or both. Can you do something about the focus points with firmware? I know little about the mechanics of that. Is that not a hardware issue?


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## ScottyP (Dec 8, 2012)

Is anyone out there able to test a 6D under the same circumstances and see how it does?


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## steliosk (Dec 8, 2012)

slow AF with the rebel 600D too

The assist beam of ex 580 seems to be weaker and the camera is hunting rather than my old 350D/450D which focuses INSTANTLY with the flash af assist beam.

It focuses with the 600D allright but way slower than my older 350D and 450D.
600D suffers from a terrible lag on locking the focus when the beam is on.


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## Louis (Dec 11, 2012)

Don't forget this forum guys for the problem also, Canon need to hear this,

http://forums.usa.canon.com/t5/EOS/5D3-AF-assist-beam-slower-focus/m-p/6391#U6391


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## ScottyP (Dec 11, 2012)

Louis said:


> Don't forget this forum guys for the problem also, Canon need to hear this,
> 
> http://forums.usa.canon.com/t5/EOS/5D3-AF-assist-beam-slower-focus/m-p/6391#U6391



YES. Add your post to the list and ALSO be sure to give "kudos" to all the previous posts you like in the thread. There is a list of the most-kudoed posts. It used to be all filled with this thread but it has fallen behind and now needs new kudos


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## gilmorephoto (Dec 11, 2012)

Louis said:


> Don't forget this forum guys for the problem also, Canon need to hear this,
> 
> http://forums.usa.canon.com/t5/EOS/5D3-AF-assist-beam-slower-focus/m-p/6391#U6391



+1. There is starting to be an active discussion on the Canon forum and there is a solicitation for some specifics that will help Canon evaluate the issue. Please post your experience(s) and keep the problem top-of-mind for Canon. This is more than a minor inconvenience (many of which we make lots of hay about); this is a problem with core functionality and needs to be addressed in the near term.


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## dlleno (Dec 11, 2012)

has anyone done the "RustyTheGeek" method (return the camera and get a new one) or approached Canon service with specific repeatable test conditions using valid comparisons with bodies such as 5D2 and 6D? the more specific you get, the more likely we are to obtain a specific statment from Canon regarding this behavior. For example, if Canon service is asked to fix the issue where "the 5D3 AF takes 2 seconds to confirm and fire the shutter while the 6D appears instantaneous under the same conditions while acheiving accurate focus", then Canon has to confim yes or no that the Camera is performing up to its specifications. 

There are a number of explanations that could apply, but given that RustyTheGeek is now satisfied, having acheived AF speed improvement with a different camera, one explanation is that the issue is addressed with newer hardware and that the issue just silently goes away with newer bodies. We have no proof that this is the case, mind you, but emperically this is valid postulation. the implications could be as interesting as a manufacturing defect or parts quality problem that was addressed and Canon chose not to recall any bodies but fixes them silently as they come in for repair. It could have been a consious decision based on the cost of warranty claims. Treat this postulation as CR0, naturally


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## ScottyP (Dec 11, 2012)

dlleno said:


> has anyone done the "RustyTheGeek" method (return the camera and get a new one) or approached Canon service with specific repeatable test conditions using valid comparisons with bodies such as 5D2 and 6D? the more specific you get, the more likely we are to obtain a specific statment from Canon regarding this behavior. For example, if Canon service is asked to fix the issue where "the 5D3 AF takes 2 seconds to confirm and fire the shutter while the 6D appears instantaneous under the same conditions while acheiving accurate focus", then Canon has to confim yes or no that the Camera is performing up to its specifications.
> 
> There are a number of explanations that could apply, but given that RustyTheGeek is now satisfied, having acheived AF speed improvement with a different camera, one explanation is that the issue is addressed with newer hardware and that the issue just silently goes away with newer bodies. We have no proof that this is the case, mind you, but emperically this is valid postulation. the implications could be as interesting as a manufacturing defect or parts quality problem that was addressed and Canon chose not to recall any bodies but fixes them silently as they come in for repair. It could have been a consious decision based on the cost of warranty claims. Treat this postulation as CR0, naturally




Or....
Maybe someone "got to" Rusty. Maybe they roughed him up and got him to recant, or, maybe "Rusty" is no longer the one posting Rusty's last few comments at all. Hmmmm? _(MA-niacal laaaaugh!)_


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## dlleno (Dec 11, 2012)

beam me up ScottyP that was funny


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## Louis (Dec 12, 2012)

New Tests been done by Micheal

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=11566.0


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## digital paradise (Dec 12, 2012)

There must be 5 threads on this subject  

I'm getting mixed results. Lsat night I threw my 600 on my 7D and it was pretty much normal. Then I put it on my 5D3 and I was getting great acquisition. Just about the same speed as my 7D. Tried again this morning and was good again. Last week it took 3 blinks to achieve focus quite a few times.

I'm testing both with half pressing the shutter and a full press. The full press is instant (before AF beep goes off) and I'm find all my images are in focus.


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## jaayres20 (Dec 12, 2012)

I am a wedding photographer and have shot 25 weddings and receptions this year with the 5D3 and 600ex. I started a thread about this issue about a month ago and I finally sent my camera in to Canon to get the shutter replaced and the light leak issue resolved and I specifically complained about it the AF assist beam. When they sent it back they mentioned they made some "electrical adjustments" to the shutter and AF. They never acknowledged there was a problem or said that they did anything to fix it. I haven't shot a wedding since then so I haven't gotten a chance to really test it out yet but I did some quick tests and sometimes there appears to be some improvement. Other times it still seems slow. I don't think there is a way to know until I shoot a wedding again. I do think it is interesting they didn't even acknowledge there was a problem and always say it is the first they have heard of the issue.


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## digital paradise (Dec 12, 2012)

jaayres20 said:


> I am a wedding photographer and have shot 25 weddings and receptions this year with the 5D3 and 600ex. I started a thread about this issue about a month ago and I finally sent my camera in to Canon to get the shutter replaced and the light leak issue resolved and I specifically complained about it the AF assist beam. When they sent it back they mentioned they made some "electrical adjustments" to the shutter and AF. They never acknowledged there was a problem or said that they did anything to fix it. I haven't shot a wedding since then so I haven't gotten a chance to really test it out yet but I did some quick tests and sometimes there appears to be some improvement. Other times it still seems slow. I don't think there is a way to know until I shoot a wedding again. I do think it is interesting they didn't even acknowledge there was a problem and always say it is the first they have heard of the issue.



Yeah they are probably told to say that until they figure out what is going on. Even if they do a recall would probably be too expensive if firmware can't fix it so they may never say yes it is an issue. We will have to keep up to date on your findings and posts. Only a few times I can remember a recall.

At Canon Forums but one person sent it in an Canon told them it was due to dust in AF sensor. When it came back it made little difference. 

Thanks for your help.


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## scottkinfw (Dec 12, 2012)

I have gotten that vague statement when I sent lenses and bodies for calibration, only to be disappointed in the field.

My advice, put the camera through all its paces before it really counts so you are not disappointed too.

sek



digital paradise said:


> jaayres20 said:
> 
> 
> > I am a wedding photographer and have shot 25 weddings and receptions this year with the 5D3 and 600ex. I started a thread about this issue about a month ago and I finally sent my camera in to Canon to get the shutter replaced and the light leak issue resolved and I specifically complained about it the AF assist beam. When they sent it back they mentioned they made some "electrical adjustments" to the shutter and AF. They never acknowledged there was a problem or said that they did anything to fix it. I haven't shot a wedding since then so I haven't gotten a chance to really test it out yet but I did some quick tests and sometimes there appears to be some improvement. Other times it still seems slow. I don't think there is a way to know until I shoot a wedding again. I do think it is interesting they didn't even acknowledge there was a problem and always say it is the first they have heard of the issue.
> ...


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## dlleno (Dec 12, 2012)

jaayres20 said:


> I am a wedding photographer and have shot 25 weddings and receptions this year with the 5D3 and 600ex. I started a thread about this issue about a month ago and I finally sent my camera in to Canon to get the shutter replaced and the light leak issue resolved and I specifically complained about it the AF assist beam. When they sent it back they mentioned they made some "electrical adjustments" to the shutter and AF. They never acknowledged there was a problem or said that they did anything to fix it. I haven't shot a wedding since then so I haven't gotten a chance to really test it out yet but I did some quick tests and sometimes there appears to be some improvement. Other times it still seems slow. I don't think there is a way to know until I shoot a wedding again. I do think it is interesting they didn't even acknowledge there was a problem and always say it is the first they have heard of the issue.



this is expected and I doubt we will see any traction on this topic until and unless someone gives a very specific test case to Canon that can be reproducable, and insists that Canon acknowlege that one camera performs better than another. As long as there is one single 5D3 that you send in, they will always obfuscate the issue and say all is performing to specifications. they can say that because they will run some standard set of diagnostics, performed by technicians who follow procedure, and the diagnostic says "all specifications are met". 

instead, someone needs to send in a 5D3 and a 6D, describe in great detail how to reproduce the problem, and then insist on an explanation. I realize thats a tall order (nobody wants to part with two camera bodies for two weeks...) but it might be necessary.

Even if, at some level within the organization, Canon recognizes the problem, it will likely be addressed silently with new production hardware and/or firmware fix that will not be documented. just my opinion


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## Brendon (Dec 12, 2012)

I too have seen this issue but get around it 99% of the time by using servo focus. With moving subjects at wedding receptions, this is often the better approach anyway. You certainly have to move the autofocus point around and can't recompose once locked. This seems to work better with my sigma 50mm 1.4 than it does with the 70-200 presumably because of the extra light at max aperture. 

My personal opinion is that using servo in this fashion is still much better than the hit or miss focus of my 50d even with the assist light. It was like rolling the dice with the 50d when focusing with the 50 1.4.

In summary...this issue is painful, but not a showstopper for wedding photography.


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## digital paradise (Dec 12, 2012)

Brendon said:


> I too have seen this issue but get around it 99% of the time by using servo focus. With moving subjects at wedding receptions, this is often the better approach anyway. You certainly have to move the autofocus point around and can't recompose once locked. This seems to work better with my sigma 50mm 1.4 than it does with the 70-200 presumably because of the extra light at max aperture.
> 
> My personal opinion is that using servo in this fashion is still much better than the hit or miss focus of my 50d even with the assist light. It was like rolling the dice with the 50d when focusing with the 50 1.4.
> 
> In summary...this issue is painful, but not a showstopper for wedding photography.



You must mean AI Focus. The assist beam does not work in AI Servo. I never use AI Focus. 

Wonder how that works? I guess when the subject is stationary it works but when the system detects the subject in motion it does not? I'll have to check my cameras manual. 

This is from this site http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/index3.html 

An important thing to remember is that the AF assist light works only if your camera is in One-shot mode - it will not illuminate in AI Servo or in any icon AE mode which employs AI Servo, such as the Sports mode. This is because the camera is constantly focussing and refocussing when in AI Servo mode, in order to track subject motion.


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## Louis (Dec 14, 2012)

Guys remember designing a work around isn't the way forward, There shouldn't be a need to have to work around a problem that basically should not exist in the first place, Im worried that the problem may start to become overshadowed by "what we all can do instead" I really am hoping for this tread to get heard, its a real problem and I do not believe for a moment it only happens in certain cameras (ie other 5D3's don't have this problem) its a problem with the 5D3 itself and needs to be addressed, 

I would like to say thanks to everyone that has of course offered help in ideas making it easier while we wait for answers, but let us not forget the true problem exists and needs to be fixed,

Louis


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## digital paradise (Dec 14, 2012)

Louis said:


> Guys remember designing a work around isn't the way forward, There shouldn't be a need to have to work around a problem that basically should not exist in the first place, Im worried that the problem may start to become overshadowed by "what we all can do instead" I really am hoping for this tread to get heard, its a real problem and I do not believe for a moment it only happens in certain cameras (ie other 5D3's don't have this problem) its a problem with the 5D3 itself and needs to be addressed,
> 
> I would like to say thanks to everyone that has of course offered help in ideas making it easier while we wait for answers, but let us not forget the true problem exists and needs to be fixed,
> 
> Louis



Amen. Band-Aids are never the solution. It is not our responsibility to solve this.


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## dlleno (Dec 18, 2012)

Louis said:


> Guys remember designing a work around isn't the way forward, There shouldn't be a need to have to work around a problem that basically should not exist in the first place, Im worried that the problem may start to become overshadowed by "what we all can do instead" I really am hoping for this tread to get heard, its a real problem and I do not believe for a moment it only happens in certain cameras (ie other 5D3's don't have this problem) its a problem with the 5D3 itself and needs to be addressed,
> 
> I would like to say thanks to everyone that has of course offered help in ideas making it easier while we wait for answers, but let us not forget the true problem exists and needs to be fixed,
> 
> Louis



good comments Louis. my only contribution, having read most of the threads on this topic is that there does appear to be two problems that are being confused with each other. 

1. A problem where some cameras appear to perform better than others: Low light AF performance without flash or AF-assist. I see a lack of consistency in the test descriptions (standard, normalized EV is trivial to find and express but no one has done it) and no clear repeatable result saying that the AF system on a statistically significant number of 5D3s does not perform " in a way that is commensurate with the photo set-up, subject movement and required shutter speeds that would be associated with taking the picture in that amount of light, and when the camera is used as it has been marketed" RustyTheGeek has shown that his replacement 5D3 performs better than the one he originally purchased, for example. This to me is mfg QC. 

2. A problem where none of the 5D3s described here perform well, and even some 1DX contributors have described similar behavior: Utilization of the AF-assist. Here the amount of ambient light shouldn't matter -- you should be able to walk into a dark closet, close the door, and take photos of a mouse running across the floor in pitch black darkeness. At reasonble subject distances, the AF system should use the assist beam! Frankly, given the information posted here I'm suspicious of a marriage problem between the AF system and the nature of the AF beam itself, its width pattern, pulse duty cycle, frequency; something. The common denominator here is the 61 point AF system shared (largely) between 1DX and 5D3. Its like the AF R&D team and the Speedlite R&D team don't know each other, or one doesn't consult the other, because something is fishy here. The AF system needs to be tweeked so that it can see and utilize the beam, for pete's sake. This is what makes me suspicous that Canon can fix this problem with a firmware update. THey just have gone dark side of the moon because they know the problem to exist and are planning their response to it.


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## ScottyP (Dec 18, 2012)

@dlleno

I I think you are right about Canon" planning its response" but probably only in the sense that there must be a chalkboard somewhere with notes about 5D4.


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## dlleno (Dec 18, 2012)

ScottyP said:


> @dlleno
> 
> I I think you are right about Canon" planning its response" but probably only in the sense that there must be a chalkboard somewhere with notes about 5D4.



lol you and I both hope you are wrong of course  Only market pressure has the ability to modify Canon arrogance. Maybe they will discontinue the 5D2 and sell the 5D4 along side the 5D3 for another $1,000.


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## gilmorephoto (Dec 19, 2012)

REPOST from another thread for your reference:

I finally had a chance to compare both my bodies (5D3 and T1i) with two flashes (600EX and 430EX II). I used the 40mm f2.8 for both (at first) with center point selected to keep things as consistent as possible. I shot into my walk-in closet, so it was dark enough to trigger the AF Assist light but with the door open so some ambient light would trickle in. I turn the focus confirmation beep back on to have another indicator of when the camera thought it was focused and when it fired. I tried both cameras with both flashes. I did not time anything with a watch because if it's close enough not to be able to tell there is a significant difference, I really would not be bothered which one is technically faster. That said, here are my observations:

5D3--regardless which flash used, the body had the marked hesitation that I mentioned earlier/elsewhere. This is not just a little shutter lag--this is a full second or two, the moment is gone, I didn't get anything and, if I did, it is not in focus. This is beyond annoying, this is failure when mission critical. There was no perceptibly meaningful difference between the flashes, so this lead me to believe it's the way the body acquires focus. I noted the two or three step confirmation process someone noted earlier. This was the behavior no matter which focus point or AF method was selected (excluding SERVO).

T1i--press, shoot. Find another spot, press, shoot. Repeat, Repeat. All in focus, all virtually instantaneous and at worse considerably better than the best attempts with 5D3. If anything, 600EX performed better than 430 EX II (thank goodness for that) on this body. This is what I was expecting from the 5D3 and it's not even close. (I repeated the test with my 15-85mm zoom on the T1i and the results were consistent regardless of the focal length and aperture setting). 

I'm now even more convinced it's a serious with the 5D3 and not the flash. There is no way my T1i (which I still love) could/should outperform the 5D3 under these circumstances, especially given the type of photography the 5D3 is geared toward.


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## digital paradise (Dec 20, 2012)

Post #85

http://forums.usa.canon.com/t5/EOS/5D3-AF-assist-beam-slower-focus/m-p/8147#M995


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## Louis (Dec 20, 2012)

Yea I saw this, at least where being heard


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## Louis (Dec 24, 2012)

Merry Christmas all,

Don't go quiet on the matter, because Canon have shown interest, worst thing you can do,

Happy Holidays, remember to report your Focusing issues

Louis


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## YuengLinger (Dec 24, 2012)

Despite what page 77 of the manual says about using the center single AF point, Canon Pro Services techs are now telling users to use AF point expansion with surrounding points or Zone AF. I'm using the AF point expansion and doing somewhat better, but it is a pain to have to switch out of single AF point.

Another thing I'm finding is that my 580ex works better with the 5D3, and I clearly see that the 580ex grid of red lines is brighter and denser than the 600ex when compared on a wall.

A firmware update fixing the sluggish performance with single AF (and the slightly better but still relatively pokey with AF point expansion) would be a lot of help!

My 60D with center AF point and the 580ex is lightening fast to achieve AF. Yes, I'm steamed.

Also, how about a small flash the size of the 270ex that has AF assist AND triggers the freaking speedlites?


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## digital paradise (Dec 24, 2012)

That is too bad. I doubt Canon will ever do anything about the light pattern and density. That would mean a recall.


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## dlleno (Feb 5, 2013)

encouraging update on this issue; Canon has acknowledged the problem and planning a firmware fix

http://forums.usa.canon.com/t5/EOS/5D3-AF-assist-beam-slower-focus/m-p/13547/highlight/false#M1486


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## RLPhoto (Feb 5, 2013)

Fantastic! It will probably be included in the March planned release of firmwares.

FYI, I found if you use 9-point Expansion AF w/ Assist Beam, It works great! Single point is still slow though. :/


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## ChilledXpress (Feb 5, 2013)

dlleno said:


> encouraging update on this issue; Canon has acknowledged the problem and planning a firmware fix
> 
> http://forums.usa.canon.com/t5/EOS/5D3-AF-assist-beam-slower-focus/m-p/13547/highlight/false#M1486



Wow... maybe some people whining in this forum would be better served at Canon's forum. Threads like "Can we all send a complaint to Canon to fix the AF-Assist focusing on the 5D3?" or "I feel sooo screeewed by Canon's pricing" might get actual Canon employees responding to this drivel.


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## digital paradise (Feb 5, 2013)

I knew Canon was going to respond with something after this post. They had to. 

#115

http://forums.usa.canon.com/t5/EOS/5D3-AF-assist-beam-slower-focus/td-p/2277/highlight/false/page/12


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## digital paradise (Feb 20, 2013)

http://usa.canon.com/cusa/support/consumer?pageKeyCode=prdAdvDetail&docId=0901e024807f5f70


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## RayValdez360 (Feb 23, 2013)

My thread made Canon fix this issue! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


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## dlleno (Feb 23, 2013)

hey take the credit, man you deserve it. many of us were in that thread but frankly it really does feel like that thread convinced Canon to act. it took while, and the silence promoted a lot of amusing speculation and even some harsh words from time to time, but in the end the message got through. wahoo go team go


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