# Canon EOS M2 Gets Official in Asia, Not Coming to the USA or Europe?



## Canon Rumors Guy (Dec 3, 2013)

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<strong>UPDATE</strong>
I’m starting to think we won’t be seeing the Canon EOS M2 released in the United States or Europe. No retailer has contacted us about preorders, there is no press release from Canon USA or Canon UK, and my contact at Canon Canada didn’t even know the camera was coming.</p>
<p>If you recall, the Canon EF-M 11-22 IS STM lens is not officially available in the United States, though you can buy it in Canada.</p>
<p><em>More to come…</em></p>
<p><strong>The Canon EOS M2

</strong><a href="http://www.canon.com.cn/products/camera/eos/lineup/m2/index.html" target="_blank">Canon China</a> and <a href="http://cweb.canon.jp/newsrelease/2013-12/pr-eos-m2.html" target="_blank">Canon Japan</a> have outed the new Canon EOS M2. A slightly smaller replacement for the Canon EOS M.</p>
<p>The biggest new features appear to be the Wifi capabilities, Servo mode when shooting video and a faster autofocus system with the new “Hybrid CMOS AF II”.</p>
<p>The camera is set for a mid December release in Japan, There has been no official word from Canon USA as of yet.</p>
<div id="attachment_15092" style="width: 585px" class="wp-caption alignnone"><a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/photo01_b.jpg"><img class="size-medium wp-image-15092" alt="Canon EOS M2 Front" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/photo01_b-575x394.jpg" width="575" height="394" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Canon EOS M2 Front</p></div>
<div id="attachment_15093" style="width: 585px" class="wp-caption alignnone"><a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/photo02_b.jpg"><img class="size-medium wp-image-15093" alt="Canon EOS M2 Back" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/photo02_b-575x394.jpg" width="575" height="394" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Canon EOS M2 Back</p></div>
<div id="attachment_15094" style="width: 585px" class="wp-caption alignnone"><a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/photo03_b.jpg"><img class="size-medium wp-image-15094" alt="Canon EOS M2 Top" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/photo03_b-575x394.jpg" width="575" height="394" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Canon EOS M2 Top</p></div>
```


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## mackguyver (Dec 3, 2013)

*Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official*

...but will they sell it in the U.S.?


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## Zlyden (Dec 3, 2013)

*Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official*

I just wonder what is the purpose of rectangle with "EOS M2" on top of the camera (on left from hot-shoe, where "L" and "R" mics where on "EOS M")?

Is it something like "plastic cover for Wi-Fi antenna"?

PS: Mics are obviously moved to the front -- should be much better!


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## dufflover (Dec 3, 2013)

*Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official*

Eagerly await comparisons with the original M ... and the price!
Obviously won't be much difference IQ wise, but I have to admit as content as I am with my EOS-M (given the price) I wouldn't mind the bump up of specs (AF, even though the original is "enough" for me), the smaller size, and the fps. And hopefully a shutter that won't sound so bloody clunky lol.
(WiFi I'm undecided ...)

Don't get me wrong, like I said in the other thread, it's a very "bleh" release. I'm just even more pessimistic about it having an appealing price!

The other issue being even a sell + trade up from an M to an M2 cheaply I imagine will still run into a couple of hundred, and would kill the *original* selling point which was the price for a compact APS-C even if a little outdated techwise. The total outlay would creep into buying a better compact mirrorless setup to begin with.


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## Emil (Dec 3, 2013)

*Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official*

So the rumors were true! Interesting, although I'm not yet convinced. Looking forward to see how the auto focus performs.

EDIT:
The video shown here includes a comparison of EOS M vs EOS M2 AF speed. Seems a lot quicker

http://cweb.canon.jp/newsrelease/2013-12/pr-eos-m2.html


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## TrabimanUK (Dec 3, 2013)

*Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official*

Yay! It's white! I'm sooo sold!


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## Zlyden (Dec 3, 2013)

*Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official*

Taking into account 6D Wi-Fi experience... EOS M2's 875 mAh battery will probably be empty before something like "Image Capture" finishes transfer of ~ 100 RAW+JPEGs to the computer.

Why they rotated remote control sensor? Design-thing?

Canon, if you listen, in "EOS M3" please move AF assist lamp to the left of the lens (where it will be more difficult to block with a thumb on zoom ring...). To save space, you can put the lamp inside "o" of "Canon" label...


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## Lichtgestalt (Dec 3, 2013)

*Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official*

disappointing that it is not the 70D sensor.

guess we will have to wait for the more pro oriented model to see better features.
this is not enough to make me buy a canon M.

the FPS are not good either for a mirrorless.


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## sanj (Dec 3, 2013)

*Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official*

If it had a viewfinder….


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## EchoLocation (Dec 3, 2013)

*Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official*

still no viewfinder or flash? i would have thought they would have made a little more premium type of version by now.
no new lenses at all? what about 24,50, or 85mm primes? I don't particularly care as I am content with the 11-22 and 22mm lenses I have, but you'd think Canon might try to put a little more in to the system besides there miniscule current lens selection.
this seems verrrry similar to the original to me. of course it has faster AF, how could it be any slower?
if this had a flash, I would buy it to replace my eos-m classic when the price goes down to 300 bucks again, but as it is I really have no use for an upgrade. 
I'll be using my new Sony a7 95% of the time anyways.


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## Zlyden (Dec 3, 2013)

*Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official*



sanj said:


> If it had a viewfinder….



...it might be called "SL1" or "100D"?


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## Lichtgestalt (Dec 3, 2013)

*Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official*

800$ with kit lens. again to expensive, like the first M.

i guess the price will drop very fast... again.


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## sanj (Dec 3, 2013)

*Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official*



Zlyden said:


> sanj said:
> 
> 
> > If it had a viewfinder….
> ...



True that. But there are other out there making cameras with same size sensor _and_ viewfinder. Many include a flash as well. Many claim better high ISO.


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## jebrady03 (Dec 3, 2013)

*Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official*

One thing that was initially supposed to be on the M but was removed prior to release was zooming during movie recording. Found this in the specs: 



> Digital zoom - You can set about 3-10 times zoom



Pretty cool.


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## Bob Howland (Dec 3, 2013)

*Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official*

I'll bet Canon USA is annoyed, unless they can get them on store shelves within a week or so. This announcement could interfere with Christmas sales of Rebels and 70D's. Furthermore, if Canon intends to introduce an upmarket M-system camera, why didn't they introduce that body first, like in September, while the original bodies were being sold at (presumably) a loss, then introduce this body later. That would give them two bodies to sell, with different capabilities and at different price points.

Any word on the price?


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## Zv (Dec 3, 2013)

*Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official*



Lichtgestalt said:


> disappointing that it is not the 70D sensor.
> 
> guess we will have to wait for the more pro oriented model to see better features.
> this is not enough to make me buy a canon M.
> ...



I think the reason we aren't seeing the 70D sensor in the M could be that Canon are trying to differentiate that as a higher end feature. Though we first see it in the mid range EOS 70D it still hasn't reached it's full potential. We are told the C100 will get the firmware upgrade that enables the Dual Pixel technology so it seems that Canon are saving it for the higher end cameras. My bet would be that the next camera to have Dual Pixel AF will be the 7D2. Doesn't make sense to put it in an EOS M before the 7D2. (Oh it makes perfect sense to us consumers but not to Canon's marketing department!  )

Also, if you look at the rebel series, which I would place higher on the EOS scale than the M, we see regular incremental upgrades to the models. The t6i to t7i was barely an update at all! The M to M2 seems to be along the same lines of Canon's strategy. 

Whatever, I mean did we really expect miracles? 

Wonder how much this new M is gonna be, that's the real question. If it's $400 for the kit it will be a nice little P&S substitute for many. 

As for lenses I do agree that one more prime would be nice. I've given up on that idea and decided to buy an FD adaptor and buy some cheap (but good) FD glass. Manual focus doesn't bother me at all. And that's the great thing about the M, you can use all kinds of lenses with it via adaptors. 

As for built in flash - no, that is a stupid idea. As an off camera flash junkie I fully support Canon's decision there! Use the hotshoe, that's what it's there for!!!!


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## Lichtgestalt (Dec 3, 2013)

*Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official*

from the japanese price it will be around 800$ with kit lens.. 600$ body only.

i think we could expect the 70D sensor for that price if canon was really going into the mirrorless market. it sure would draw more attention to canons mirroless offering then the 18MP sensor.

i know i know... the 70D cost more. but cameras are more then their sensors.
i think there would be enough to separat them. look at the 60D when it was released and the rebel line.

i hope canon will announce that PRO model and it will show a commitment to the M line.


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## Zv (Dec 3, 2013)

*Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official*



infared said:


> Zv said:
> 
> 
> > Lichtgestalt said:
> ...



Yup, they pay me the big bucks to spout nonsense! Haha! 

Well, think about it. Am I wrong?


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## Zlyden (Dec 3, 2013)

*Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official*



Bob Howland said:


> I'll bet Canon USA is annoyed, unless they can get them on store shelves within a week or so.



My assumption is that Canon (as many other large corporations) believes in statistics when it takes market decisions. 

And judging by CIPA statistics primary mirrorless market is Japan (and Asia) where mirrorless hold about ~ 35% of "interchangeable lens cameras" market (the rest are DSLRs ~ 65%).

In Americas mirrorless is only 8-10% while DSLRs hold whole 90-92%. 

So, what you see as "EOS M" and "EOS M2" are tiny cameras with minimalistic design that are targeted for Japan (in first place).

It's just like with the cars: if you are from USA you are supposed to drive Nissan Patrol, not Nissan Micra (and shoot with EOS 1D X + at least some EF 400 from its window...  )


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 3, 2013)

*Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official*

You know what I hate? When a new product launch makes you yawn so wide that flies get in your mouth. 




Emil said:


> So the rumors were true! Interesting, although I'm not yet convinced. Looking forward to see how the auto focus performs.
> 
> EDIT:
> The video shown here includes a comparison of EOS M vs EOS M2 AF speed. Seems a lot quicker
> ...



Haven't watched the video, but does it specify that the M used for comparison has the v2 firmware?


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## Lichtgestalt (Dec 3, 2013)

*Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official*

no flash.. not a big deal for some. but i guess some possible M customers will miss it.

no EVF.

those two missing features make the EOS M2 cheaper to manufacture then competing mirroless cameras.
so compared to other cameras the rumored/translated japanese price is to high, in my opinion.

FPS disappointing.

a 6$ wifi chip does not cut the cake.

at least we can hope the AF is now a match to other mirrorless offerings.


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## Bob Howland (Dec 3, 2013)

*Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official*



Zlyden said:


> Bob Howland said:
> 
> 
> > I'll bet Canon USA is annoyed, unless they can get them on store shelves within a week or so.
> ...



Did you read my entire post, because your "response" makes no sense?

Incidentally, I drive a Honda Fit.


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## Rienzphotoz (Dec 3, 2013)

I hope the EOS-M2's AF speed increase is in comparison to the EOS-M AF speed after the recent firmware update.


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## traveller (Dec 3, 2013)

I think there may be a processing power and heat dissipation issue with the 20MP sensor from the 70D; either that or it's too expensive to manufacture!


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## Quasimodo (Dec 3, 2013)

Its hard not to read this as anything else than; too little, too late. While the original EOS M could be read as a test baloon in the mirrorless market, the new version does not communicate that they deem this market interesting.


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## EchoLocation (Dec 3, 2013)

Has this been announced in the US yet? 
you think they will finally announce the 11-22mm lens in the US along with this camera?
*update* just saw the latest post... is this really not being announced in the US at all? what is Canon thinking?
are they just quitting? will they have a FF mirrorless coming soon(or ever?) I feel like they are just giving up on trying to do anything besides DSLR's in the US. You would think they might give a little more effort in to developing something for the future.


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## Lichtgestalt (Dec 3, 2013)

*Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official*



Bob Howland said:


> Zlyden said:
> 
> 
> > Bob Howland said:
> ...



it makes sense.

and as the article update says... they may not see in in the USA at all.
so no interference with christmas sales. 

maybe only a PRO modell will be available in the USA and europe.


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## Random Orbits (Dec 3, 2013)

It looks like this may be an Asia only model. Size was never the primary defect of the M in the North American market. CanonUSA is better off skipping this one and waiting for one with the 70D sensor for the M2. And if they can improve on the focusing speed of the 70D chip with new algorithms, then the M2 will be a formidable entry.

And if a new M is not ready with a 70D chip until next year, kudos to CanonUSA for not confusing the market by bringing this "update" to this market. If the M is currently selling for 300, how much more can they sell this minor update? It's just not worth it.


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## stolpe (Dec 3, 2013)

Please Canon, release a EOS-M2 Pro model as soon as possible...

/ Stolpe


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## Orangutan (Dec 3, 2013)

The limited release is interesting. It almost seems like Canon is using this as market research: maybe they are still trying to find the core feature set and pricing that will sell well in the US and Europe. 

My main disappointment is that $800 for this device means the "big brother" will be absurdly expensive.


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## YuengLinger (Dec 3, 2013)

I imagine there are a lot of high-end products that don't show up in the USA. Back in the early 2000's, ASUS computers had a line of beautiful magnesium-alloy shell laptops, state of the art circuitry, that never made it over here. Of course that might have been when Asus was just beginning to test the waters in the USA.

But living in China back then, I tried Amazon several times for some of the gadgets I saw there, brands like Samsung, Sharp, IBM, and Sony. Found that while anything available in the States could be found in China, many nicer items for sale there could were not showing up on either Amazon or Best Buy.

Maybe marketing and regulatory costs and shipping just don't add up to profit for every item. And of course lately the US economy, except for the stock market, continues to spiral downward.


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## lw (Dec 3, 2013)

One would assume however that production of the current M will cease, and be replaced by the M2.

If the M2 isn't going to be available in EU or US, then they better have a big inventory of current M models, or the M-Pro of whatever the dual-pixel version is called had better be available soon.

Even then, I can't imagine the EU or US only wanting one enthusiast oriented model in their M system line up with no entry level to suck people into the system. 

That makes little sense, unless they intend selling the M-Pro for $299, which I somehow doubt!


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## Lichtgestalt (Dec 3, 2013)

lw said:


> One would assume however that production of the current M will cease, and be replaced by the M2.
> 
> If the M2 isn't going to be available in EU or US, then they better have a big inventory of current M models, or the M-Pro of whatever the dual-pixel version is called had better be available soon.
> 
> ...




it makes even less sense to ship all that stuff over to USA or europe to sit on the shelves. 
look at microsofts surface tablet.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 3, 2013)

Canon Rumors said:


> UPDATE
> ...my contact at Canon Canada didn’t even know the camera was coming.



Interesting. When the EF-M 11-22mm was not launched in the US, it was reported as a decision by Canon USA. But if Canon Canada wasn't notified of the M2 launch in Asia, that suggests a decision by Canon HQ.


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## lw (Dec 3, 2013)

DPR confirm that Canon Europe have said the M2 won't be available in Europe.


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## lw (Dec 3, 2013)

Lichtgestalt said:


> it makes even less sense to ship all that stuff over to USA or europe to sit on the shelves.
> look at microsofts surface tablet.



True...

I guess that having had to sell off EOS M cheap, they may be reluctant to repeat that when it probably hits the local bottom line.


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## traveller (Dec 3, 2013)

Maybe Canon are starting to realise that the Western market is completely different to the Asian market. In North America and Europe, mirrorless cameras seem to be bought by photography enthusiast or professionals, either to complement existing DSLR systems that they own, or to replace them. They are therefore looking for much more capable systems than Asian consumers, who seem to favour compact size and consumer orientated features. 

The questions are whether Canon is interested in developing EOS-M as a more enthusiast and pro orientated system and if so, whether they have missed the boat. I cannot answer the first part of that question, but I still think that Canon are not too late to reposition EOS-M in the Western markets. They have a massive installed user base of EOS users; if they can make an EOS-M that worked just like their DSLRs and worked well with EF mount lenses via their adaptor, then I still think they could have a winning system. The main factors that put me off buying into another manufacturer system are the cognitive dissonance of learning a whole new interface and using it alongside my Canon DSLRs and the difficulty of using them as proper backup bodies without losing features.


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## dolina (Dec 3, 2013)

They could be beta testing the damn thing on us Asians before shipping it elsewhere. We tend to be more forgiving.


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## mackguyver (Dec 3, 2013)

traveller said:


> Maybe Canon are starting to realise that the Western market is completely different to the Asian market. In North America and Europe, mirrorless cameras seem to be bought by photography enthusiast or professionals, either to complement existing DSLR systems that they own, or to replace them. They are therefore looking for much more capable systems than Asian consumers, who seem to favour compact size and consumer orientated features.
> 
> The questions are whether Canon is interested in developing EOS-M as a more enthusiast and pro orientated system and if so, whether they have missed the boat. I cannot answer the first part of that question, but I still think that Canon are not too late to reposition EOS-M in the Western markets. They have a massive installed user base of EOS users; if they can make an EOS-M that worked just like their DSLRs and worked well with EF mount lenses via their adaptor, then I still think they could have a winning system. The main factors that put me off buying into another manufacturer system are the cognitive dissonance of learning a whole new interface and using it alongside my Canon DSLRs and the difficulty of using them as proper backup bodies without losing features.


Definitely different markets and that's exactly what I love about my EOS M - it's an EOS. The menus, functions, etc. are so familiar it makes using it so second nature. I don't find the EOS M's "faults" too bad, but the familiar nature by far overcomes any issues I've had with it. Would I love a high end M, though? Hell yeah!


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## Lichtgestalt (Dec 3, 2013)

dilbert said:


> The branches of Canon in the USA and Europe have for one reason or another decided that their future in that market does not involve small body interchangable lens cameras, quite possibly because the race has already been run but also quite possibly because none of you (the Canon "club") believe in this format and thus didn't invest in it when it came out leading them to can it in your market.




well 80% of the ICL cameras are DSLR´s in 2013... so the market for mirroless is still small.
so the run has not even begun. and i guess canon will join in when it makes sense.

today you compete with all the m43 and co. stuff.... for what? 
a small percentage of the market? high R&D cost but not much reward.
there is a though competition in the mirrorless market.
but which manufacturer makes a real profit?

people change from one brand to another quickly in the mirrorless realm.
because most have only 1 or 2 lenses anyway.
so the "run" is far from over. 
canon can grab a great piece of the market whenever they choose to create a great mirrorless camera.
but today they are better of producing DSLR´s.

as customers we have EVF in mirrorless cameras that, at least i think so, still suck.
sure they are getting better and some offer neat gimmicks, still i prefer a FF viewfinder all day.


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## TWI by Dustin Abbott (Dec 3, 2013)

For what I want to accomplish with it, the original M is just fine. What I need is more lens options, particularly a compact telephoto. I tend to use the M as a backup and a compact option while traveling when I don't want to take out the "big dog". A compact telephoto would help me a lot, as I tend to bring my 70-300L along while traveling but only use it for a small percentage of my shots (I typically carry a 24-70 f/2.8 that sees all the action).


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## sdsr (Dec 3, 2013)

*Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official*



Zlyden said:


> My assumption is that Canon (as many other large corporations) believes in statistics when it takes market decisions.
> 
> And judging by CIPA statistics primary mirrorless market is Japan (and Asia) where mirrorless hold about ~ 35% of "interchangeable lens cameras" market (the rest are DSLRs ~ 65%).
> 
> ...



You may well be right. Doesn't matter to me because it doesn't seem much improved over the first version, which I hated using, and because I'm generally not persuaded that tiny camera bodies are a useful vehicle for anything other than small lenses - which most EF & EF-S lenses aren't. Over the past weekend you could (in the US) buy a Rebel SL1, kit lens included, for c. $400; makes more sense to me (I bought one a month or two ago for $450). For small size/weight, M43 still wins as far as I'm concerned.


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## Zlyden (Dec 3, 2013)

*Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official*



Bob Howland said:


> Did you read my entire post, because your "response" makes no sense?



Sorry, my post was not meant as any kind of 'personal remark' (someone could be offended by).

It was just a comment concerning this general topic "why EOS M2 was made and released as it is" (and incidentally "why you do not have EF-M 11-22" in USA). 

In short: "This is because Canon thinks that they are still able sell a lot of DSLRs on western markets. So, why to harm the market you dominate with your own mirrorless system?" (If statistics to be believed -- It's quite different in Japan, there Canon has to fight for marketshare not only with Nikon, but with Sony and Olympus too...)


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## AvTvM (Dec 3, 2013)

Orangutan said:


> My main disappointment is that $800 for this device means the "big brother" will be absurdly expensive.



exactly. 

A "higher-end" EOS M with 70D DPAF sensor and EVF will probably cost more than the FF-sensored Sony A7 [USD 1699 / € 1499,- ]. 

And as I said elsewhere, should Canon ever be "willing and able" to make a mirrorless cam with FF sensor, it will probably cost USD/€ 4000+ if it were competitive with the Sony A7R ... hi res FF sensor, market-leading DR [up to ISO1600 ], market-leading EVF [today ], articulated LCD, hi-grade Mg-alloy-body ...


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## hiplnsdrftr (Dec 3, 2013)

Such a shame there is no built in flash... Could have been a nice alternative to a Panasonic GM1 or a Ricoh GR.

Using an external flash on this camera pretty much negates its small size advantage. If I want to mount my 580 on something I'll stick it on my 1Dx.

I'm fine with the lack of a viewfinder.


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## Woody (Dec 3, 2013)

dilbert said:


> People that want small body cameras in the USA and Europe have already moved or jumped to other manufacturers and Canon is too late to the market. Canon realize this and hence why the other EOS-M lens has never been made available in the USA.



Wrong. (a) After severe price cut, the EOS M is selling well relative to other mirrorless cameras in the market, particularly the A7/A7R (b) In USA and Europe, DSLRs outsell mirrorless cams by 9.5:1 and 8.5:1 respectively, so there's no point in shipping mirrorless cameras to these continents now.


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## kphoto99 (Dec 3, 2013)

TWI by Dustin Abbott said:


> I tend to use the M as a backup and a compact option while traveling



I don't think that Canon wants you to use the M as a backup, your backup "should" be a more expensive Canon camera.

PS
"you" is not you Dustin, it is a generic you


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## Zv (Dec 3, 2013)

kphoto99 said:


> TWI by Dustin Abbott said:
> 
> 
> > I tend to use the M as a backup and a compact option while traveling
> ...



Wether they want to or not, it makes a freakin awesome back up cam. If there was a tele prime in M flavor it would be so useful when shooting with your wide angle on your DSLR. The 22mm does a great job as a kinda normal to wide range when doing a lot of telephoto stuff. Basically means not having to carry 2 large DSLRs all the time.


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## Zv (Dec 3, 2013)

¥65,798 for body only on amazon. Hmmm a little bit steep. Based on prev amazon.jp initial release prices I'd say in about three months it will go down by ¥10,000.


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## preppyak (Dec 3, 2013)

Woody said:


> (b) In USA and Europe, DSLRs outsell mirrorless cams by 9.5:1 and 8.5:1 respectively, so there's no point in shipping mirrorless cameras to these continents now.


I was gonna say, everywhere I've gone lately, I've seen a lot of D5200's and a lot of T4i/T5i's...cant name the last time I've seen someone rocking a mirrorless camera in public. And this is throughout the US; in Oregon and Washington, in DC, in WV, in the northeast, and even recently in the Everglades. EVERYONE in the Everglades had a DSLR, except for the one guy that had an SX50.


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## lw (Dec 3, 2013)

I declare the M2 the Canon ISON.

Everyone waiting with bated breath for the M2, only for it to never appear from behind the rising sun...


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## justsomedude (Dec 3, 2013)

DOA


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## martini (Dec 3, 2013)

Look Canon, no view finder and no flash? ****** it, I'm going to have to buy my wife a Sony Nex 6. Damn it.


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## justsomedude (Dec 3, 2013)

martini said:


> Look Canon, no view finder and no flash? ****** it, I'm going to have to buy my wife a Sony Nex 6. Damn it.



Why do you think I just bought a Fuji x100? Canon is asleep at the wheel, and hopped up on Ambien and booze at the same time, while texting and driving.


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## moreorless (Dec 3, 2013)

*Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official*



sanj said:


> If it had a viewfinder….



My guess is that we'll see something with one next year that maybe relaunched in the states.


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## 1Zach1 (Dec 3, 2013)

I wouldn't mind a nice EVF, but it's not a deal breaker for me. I do wish it had an articulated screen though. I like that they finally added WiFi control, not having a way to remotely trigger the M is annoying. 
I see no point for a built in flash, but that's just my preference.


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## AlanK (Dec 3, 2013)

*Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official*



Emil said:


> So the rumors were true! Interesting, although I'm not yet convinced. Looking forward to see how the auto focus performs.
> 
> EDIT:
> The video shown here includes a comparison of EOS M vs EOS M2 AF speed. Seems a lot quicker
> ...



The video also shows that the screen doesn't blank out after taking a picture. This is a welcome change that I wish could be upgraded on the M classic.


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## unfocused (Dec 3, 2013)

preppyak said:


> Woody said:
> 
> 
> > (b) In USA and Europe, DSLRs outsell mirrorless cams by 9.5:1 and 8.5:1 respectively, so there's no point in shipping mirrorless cameras to these continents now.
> ...



I'm surprised at the number of iPads I've seen lately. Even at the Grand Canyon, lots of people taking pictures with iPads. That may be the future of mirrorless. 

I totally get Woody's point. Canon has been giving away the EOS M in the U.S. Why would they want to start giving away a new model?


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## Zlyden (Dec 3, 2013)

unfocused said:


> preppyak said:
> 
> 
> > Woody said:
> ...



iPads (and iPhones) is the future of 'compact cameras' 

...and if you want to see a lot a weird cameras, you should go to vacation in some Asian country this Christmas. 

Last year in Kota Kinabalu I actually was amazed by number of people carrying cameras that I saw before only on web-pictures -- like some 'brave new pink Pentax'. If you will see there someone with 5D3 + 70-200 + backpack full of other heavy lenses he probably will be from China (from some southern part like Sichuan, where they do assemble iPads, so it's not cool to carry them around), a guy with usual Canon/Nikon DSLR + kit lens bumping on his belly hanging on neck strap -- probably will be from Russia. It actually goes to: 'hey tourist, show me your camera and I will guess what country you are from'...


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## zlatko (Dec 3, 2013)

*Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official*



AlanK said:


> Emil said:
> 
> 
> > So the rumors were true! Interesting, although I'm not yet convinced. Looking forward to see how the auto focus performs.
> ...



The AF looks very good. It looks like a fun camera.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Dec 3, 2013)

I guess the other regions figured this update was pretty weak and they'd rather just wait for the real deal with the 70D sensor and bumped up specs to make trying to give it a real go worthwhile.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Dec 3, 2013)

*Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official*



Zv said:


> As for built in flash - no, that is a stupid idea. As an off camera flash junkie I fully support Canon's decision there! Use the hotshoe, that's what it's there for!!!!



not everyone always runs around with a flash, in particular when you are trying to be more compact as in this case, and having it for the odd shot where you suddenly could use a little fill or whatnot is a nice thing to have


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Dec 3, 2013)

*Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official*



Zv said:


> Well, think about it. Am I wrong?



yes! ;D


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## facedodge (Dec 3, 2013)

According to the poorly translated website, 

1 previous models that have been updated firmware Ver.2.0 or more comparison is "EOS M". 

I think that that means the comparison is to the newer firmware update. Good news.


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## Famateur (Dec 3, 2013)

justsomedude said:


> martini said:
> 
> 
> > Look Canon, no view finder and no flash? F**k it, I'm going to have to buy my wife a Sony Nex 6. Damn it.
> ...



It'll be fun to put these comments in a forum "time capsule" and then read them back in a few years. From the sound of them, Canon will be smoldering wreckage by then.

More than likely (in my opinion), Canon is making strategic, market-driven decisions that will help maintain its dominant position as an imaging solutions company. Such decisions will never please all segments of the market alike. It seems more probable to me that we're missing some key pieces of information that are driving Canon's product decisions than that management suddenly became drunk on profits and market share and are driving the company into the ground.

To those who think otherwise, you might consider A) Applying for a management position at Canon, or B) Buying stock in Nikon and Sony (should be a bargain right now). For the latter, you make your money on the "buy", right? Right?


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## Famateur (Dec 3, 2013)

*Re: Canon EOS M2 Gets Official*



Zlyden said:


> I just wonder what is the purpose of rectangle with "EOS M2" on top of the camera (on left from hot-shoe, where "L" and "R" mics where on "EOS M")?
> 
> Is it something like "plastic cover for Wi-Fi antenna"?



At first, it looked like there's a USB symbol on it, so my guess would have been a flap to cover the USB port. I've never seen one on the top before, though, so on closer look, I think that's a focal plane symbol and the rectangle is just from assembly of that part of the body.

Any other guesses?


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 3, 2013)

1Zach1 said:


> I like that they finally added WiFi control, *not having a way to remotely trigger the M* is annoying.



The RC-1, RC-5, and RC-6 IR remotes can all be used to trigger the EOS M remotely.


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## sdsr (Dec 3, 2013)

Woody said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > People that want small body cameras in the USA and Europe have already moved or jumped to other manufacturers and Canon is too late to the market. Canon realize this and hence why the other EOS-M lens has never been made available in the USA.
> ...



I don't think your posts are contradictory, despite your opening word - Canon arrived late with an overpriced, inferior product which didn't sell until they improved the focus speed and slashed the price dramatically. How many here would have bought it without the price drop? I certainly wouldn't have. The new M won't have that price advantage any more. 

Do you (or anyone else) know how the M sells in Asia relative to other mirrorless cameras before vs after the price drop (assuming there was a comparable price drop there)? It's unclear what its appeal would be to anyone relative to the competition (M43, Fuji, Sony etc.), unless you're someone with Canon lenses who doesn't want to jump ship, doesn't mind the extra bulk of using them on the M, and thinks the SL1 is too big. 

Canon, of course, can say there's no point selling small mirrorless cameras in the West if it can make more money from selling dslrs there. Those of us who like mirrorless (regardless of size) are lucky that several of the companies who specialize in them don't have that choice and, instead of retreating, seem instead (perhaps foolishly) to be trying even harder (much harder than Canon and Nikon, it seems) to make their mirrorless bodies even more appealing. They're the only new cameras released this year that have grabbed my interest, at any rate. (If one of Canon's rumored new FF cameras happened to be mirrorless (big would be fine with me) and with in-body IS, I would happily buy one, but it doesn't seem likely.)


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## Proffarm (Dec 3, 2013)

:'(

This is so photographically depressing... I'm going to go home today and stare at my little M and the 2 lenses and filters I have and think, 'What could have been..' 

Then I'll file my divorce papers from a 10 year Canon relationship, and start flirting with Olympus, Panasonic and Fuji..

I just don't get it?! How do people not realize how freaking cool the mirrorless system is?! Why the heck would you WANT to walk around with a half ass DSLR (Rebel) that is big and bulky compared to an M or EP5, or GX7? I hike/Mtn bike A LOT and that M has gone EVERYWHERE with me! My 40D just sat at home, collecting dust for like 5 years until I sold it. 

SO STUPID CANON!!!!! (smashes things in office and cries like a spoiled baby...)


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## PerfectSavage (Dec 3, 2013)

I wouldn't be surprised, they've sold a TON of the SL-1s, but the original M was a bust here and pretty much everywhere except Asia. What would sell MUCH better here in the US would be 2 more prime pancakes, perhaps a 24mm, 20mm or 35mm to sell alongside the SL-1. Give me that SL-1 DSLR feature set and smaller EF mounts any day over purchasing an entirely separate system and lenses.


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## noncho (Dec 3, 2013)

I was going to purchase EF-M 11-22 IS STM soon, but if the Canon don't want to make more lenses and leave the system with small enhancements just for Asian market I'm not quite sure... 
Maybe it's time to look for another mirrorless system before I got too deep in hopeless system.


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## jebrady03 (Dec 3, 2013)

noncho said:


> I was going to purchase EF-M 11-22 IS STM soon, but if the Canon don't want to make more lenses and leave the system with small enhancements just for Asian market I'm not quite sure...
> Maybe it's time to look for another mirrorless system before I got too deep in hopeless system.



Don't cut your nose off to spite your face. You'll not find a better UWA zoom than the 11-22, especially given the price. In fact, for most, the lens plus camera is cheaper than competing lenses alone.


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## jamiemp (Dec 3, 2013)

jebrady03 said:


> noncho said:
> 
> 
> > I was going to purchase EF-M 11-22 IS STM soon, but if the Canon don't want to make more lenses and leave the system with small enhancements just for Asian market I'm not quite sure...
> ...



What's the price on the 11-22 you found? the ones I found were pretty expensive still...


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## Zv (Dec 4, 2013)

Proffarm said:


> :'(
> 
> This is so photographically depressing... I'm going to go home today and stare at my little M and the 2 lenses and filters I have and think, 'What could have been..'
> 
> ...



Why DSLR over ML? Let me spell it out for you. 

E.R.G.O.N.O.M.I.C.S


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## Zlyden (Dec 4, 2013)

dilbert said:


> So why the big difference between Asia and the USA/Europe?



Well, (without being a racist) I suppose that:

1) Asian people are more fascinated by 'latest hi-tech things' and change/buy them more frequently than European and American consumers who prefer 'reliable long-time investments'.

2) Asian people like to travel abroad and use 'package' vacation type with a lot of organized excursions (e.g. a big bus full of tourists from Japan is a usual thing anywhere in the world), so they like light travel cameras. 

3) Americans and Europeans, on the other side, either prefer to work in their sweatshop offices all year round (without going to other countries until they are 65 and too old to work) making only pictures of their barbecues, dogs and kids, or travel by car to places nearby, or have sea & beach family type vacations -- in all these cases camera size and weight do not matter that much.


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## Zv (Dec 4, 2013)

dilbert said:


> Zv said:
> 
> 
> > Proffarm said:
> ...



When you use a 7D compared to an EOS M or any other ML body you notice that some things are just way easier to do without thinking on the 7D. For example - changing ISO on the fly. Can you do that on a M? Meh not really. Holding a DSLR is more stable than the M no matter what the hand size. 

Japanese men have same size of hands as rest of the world. Some of them have bigger hands than me. It's a myth that they have small hands. I think the reason for the small camera is space. Pure and simple. Space is a commodity here. If you live in Tokyo every square inch of your apartment is precious. Trains and buses are packed, especially during peak seasons like Obon, and Golden Week and the Sakura blossoms. People want to travel light and save space. A camera that fits in the pocket means no extra camera bag. 

There could also be a cultural thing about not wanting to stand out and blending in etc. I see that a lot. However, I have only seen two other people with EOS Ms in Japan over the last year. I've seen a hundred thousand Nikon, Canon and Sony DSLRs though! (Big camera must take good pictures!) Holy hell during festivals and stuff everyone has a DSLR round their neck. They love their cameras as do I! And no ones going to steal it either! 

So I think that making the camera smaller isn't just because they're Asian.


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## AvTvM (Dec 4, 2013)

If there is one clear, unbroken trend in the history of "photon-capturing imaging" then it is "ever higher image quality with ever smaller, lighter, more portable, less obtrusive, less complicated gear". 

This has been going on all the time since its very invention. And it is still ongoing. Nothing will stop or reverse it. Every step there were hold-outs and earlier generation/larger gear remained in use by a few and/or for small, specialized niches and imaging tasks. 

In a few years time we will look back at today's "pro" DSLRs the same way we look at those brick-sized "mobile" phones from only 15-20 years ago. "Did we really use these cludgy devices?" 

Recently we passed one major "size category" transition point - the move from dedicated "compact" cameras to multi-tasking mobile devices for "consumer grade" image quality and "consumer image-capturing tasks" ... although both "artists" and "working pro's" have demonstrated that much more can also be achieved using mobile imaging devices.  

Next transition point immediately ahead is the the move from the previous-generation concept of mechanical-analogue mirrorslapping SLRs to fully digital mirrorless cameras that will soon deliver superior image capture and image quality, also at the professional" level. Plus native, unobstructed "convergence" of stils and moving images. 

It is still a relatively "MINOR" point in development ... while camera bodies will shrink considerably in size, only lenses in the (overall) most frequently used diagonal angle of view range ... from about 84° [24mm focal length on "FF" 24x36 image area] to about 23° [approx. 90mm FL] can be made (somewhat) smaller for mirrorless cameras with shorter flange distance. High image quality, reasonably fast zoom lenses and "longer" tele lenses [with less than about 23° diag. angle of view] will remain as large as they currently are. On the other hand, only a minority of all photographic tasks absolutely dmeand those lenses! ;-) For many situations and photogs, they are infrequently used but still "nice to have" tools for a few specific situations and/or creative effects. 

The next MAJOR revolution in size of imaging gear will occur, if/once glass optics are replaced by new technologies yielding even better image quality with smaller gear. Whatever it may be [e.g. improved "liquid-filled variable lenses", lightfield or holographic concepts, ... ] and whenever it may occur. That will yield "implantable-size imaging gear". No matter whether we'd ever want this or not. ;D


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## sdsr (Dec 4, 2013)

Zlyden said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > So why the big difference between Asia and the USA/Europe?
> ...



1. may be right, and, for all I know, so is 2. But it's also pretty clear that more than a few Asians don't mind traveling with large dslrs - my office is on Independence Mall in Philadelphia, which receives busloads of tourists every morning. dslrs seem almost as common as smaller cameras/iphones/ipads, and I don't think all that many of the small cameras are anything better than standard point-and-shoots. For whatever that's worth.

As for the ergonomic argument, it may well be that some find any mirrorless camera too small (though one of Panasonics is more-or-less dslr-size and shape), but in other respects they're not all the same - one could easily conclude that some, such as the two Olympus OM-Ds, are even easier to handle than dslrs.

The situation in the West may simply be a matter of price: the best mirrorless cameras cost more than most aps-c cameras and don't really yield better results (in many cases, probably not as good), and just about every review points this out. They may be smaller, and they may, in some cases, focus more accurately and faster and be easier to use, but those differences likely don't matter much to most camera buyers. As far as I'm concerned, the only advantages the M has over a Rebel are its fire-sale price and the cute little 22mm lens. Unless Canon makes more, similarly small lenses, the size advantage is greatly reduced when you attach any other lens (except perhaps the 40mm pancake). All that being so, and given its poor performance, it doesn't seem surprising that people bought dslrs instead of Ms and that Canon seem unwilling to market a marginally updated M that costs $700-800, i.e., more than most Rebels.


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## candc (Dec 4, 2013)

Here in the good old u.s of a, bigger is better and more is better. People like hummers, escalades, and ram trucks with v12 engines baby. A DSLR is bigger and it has more knobs so its better.


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## Zlyden (Dec 4, 2013)

sdsr said:


> As far as I'm concerned, the only advantages the M has over a Rebel are its fire-sale price and the cute little 22mm lens.



I looked at EOS M reviews and discussions for more than a year and had some doubts about 'do I really need this camera?'. 

The the deal-making points for its final purchase were:

1) My wife's complain (after here trip to some press conference in Vienna) that she needs a small camera with wide angle (much wider than 28 mm of her PowerShot G equivalence) to make pictures of Cathedrals and other European architecture. 

2) Review of EF-M 11-22 I saw two days later on DPReview.

3) Opportunity to get 'whole EOS M system' for less than $1500 
= EOS M with 18-55 and 90EX flash for ~ $400 (I had some crazy ideas to use this 90EX later on 6D 'for a spark of fill', while 270EX I already had should fit EOS M better) + EF-M 11-22 ~ $450 + EF-M 22 ~ $150 + leather hand strap and 'bottom part' case, blends for 18-55 and 22 (still can't find a blend for 11-22 in our parts), two extra 3rd party batteries, some Kata bag (for camera and extra lens) + other stuff.

4) Ability to mount my existing canon lenses with EF-EOS M adapter (that I still plan to purchase sometime in the future).

5) Curiosity as to what happened to Canon's APS-C cameras and sensors in past 6 years (since the time of 400D/XTi, I still own).

In result: My wife is happy with it. Me too 

PS: If the price for EOS M + kit lens was not $400, but $800... I guess that I would purchase it too (but with much less enthusiasm, and probably I would go for 'body only' + EF-M 11-22 option).


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## Zlyden (Dec 4, 2013)

dilbert said:


> If you're implying that Asians don't favour reliable long time investments...



Of course, I do NOT! 

I just explicitly say that Europeans are a bit more 'conservative' when it comes to embracing brave new technologies, preferring 'old proved techs'. 

PS: I actually was finally convinced that I need to make a leap from APS-C to FF by older guy from Singapore. We sat drinking beer somewhere in this city (on the next or second day after the 6D was introduced last year), he looked with a pity at my old cropped Canon and said that while he himself is a Nikon FF user, I do need to get full frame camera instead of this thing -- "you will understand later what difference it makes". And he was 100% right...


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## optikus (Dec 4, 2013)

Sorry folks,

I understand what Canon does.

"M" first shot was a real desaster - I live here nearby Cologne and in most of my "dealers" the "M"-bodies lie at the place they were placed in delivery - other brands made the big numbers. Now - for reduced prices, this changes, but this in realted to the DSLR's a serious reason to reduce engagement in these markets. I think "M2" is a test baloon how reactions in the asian markets are and what reaction comes from Europe and the US - if there is a serious interest the analysts detect I expect "M2" on our markets too. But the demands for the system as a package with more attractive lenses and so on is here on a higher level then otherwhere - and Canon does good to avoid a second mess in introduction of a 'new' product family

Joerg


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## unfocused (Dec 4, 2013)

optikus said:


> Sorry folks,
> 
> I understand what Canon does.
> 
> ...



Interesting. 

As I said before, I see no reason for Canon to rush to market with a new model in the U.S. when they are currently having to basically give away the old model. I wasn't aware that it was the same way in Europe, but it sounds like it is – at least in Germany.


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## Khufu (Dec 5, 2013)

Eugh... I want a firmware update right now to get me my 3-10x Video Crop Zoom that's printed on my EOS M box as a feature! Granted, there's a little, white sticker over the feature logo but it WAS printed on the packaging and included in Pre Production/Preview models then Canon chose to cripple the camera's capabilities super-last-minute... I was tempted to buy a 600D just for this, then hyped and ultimately disappointed about the EOS M features... 

This whole M2 just seems like an M1.2 - Maaaaybe all but WiFi & shrinkage can be added via Firmware 3!


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## AvTvM (Dec 5, 2013)

well Europe and Germany were handled differently by Canon as far as the EOS-M goes.
Most importantly, there never was a "fire sale". No chance ever to get an EOS M plus 22/2.0 plus 90EX for USD 299,- around here!

Currently in Germany EOS-M is sold in 2 kits only (not body only) - but each in black, silver or red color :


EOS M + 18-55 + 90EX: *lowest price* incl. 19% VAT "sales tax" currently to be found is € 349 [*USD 474*] while at amazon.de it still starts @ € 399 [*USD 529]* 
EOS-M + 22/2.0 + EF-adapter + 90EX *starts* from € 599 [*USD 813*] and typically is well above € 600 

As long as mirrorless cameras as poor as the EOS M are offered at prices like these ... we should not conclude that "the market" in Europe has "no interest" in mirrorless cameras, but rather wants big, clugdy mirrorslappin' DSLRs forever. Oh NO! Not true! 

It's just that most Europeans are smart enough to refuse buying sub-par products at grossly inflated prices. Actually I am glad to see that Canon's refusal to build and market a fully competitive and decent mirrorless system has resulted in a real disaster for them. They are being ***punished*** 8) by the European market and the US as well. Well deserved debacle.


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## candc (Dec 5, 2013)

i does not seem like canon put a lot of effort into marketing the m here in the states. i don't think i have ever seen an ad for one, they are not in any of the camera shops around here, best buy does not have them in the stores either. in fact i don't think i have ever seen one in person.


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## dolina (Dec 5, 2013)

Oh my, the Philippines will be getting this before the US. Take that Apple!


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## Woody (Dec 5, 2013)

AvTvM said:


> It's just that most Europeans are smart enough to refuse buying sub-par products at grossly inflated prices.



Rubbish. Mirrorless cameras are simply not popular in Europe & N. America, regardless of brand and price. In Europe, for every mirrorless camera sold, 8.5 DSLRs are being sold. If you think Sony (or insert your favorite mirrorless camera manufacturer here, Olympus/Panasonic/Fujifilm etc) mirrorless cameras are selling well, think again.


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## Woody (Dec 5, 2013)

dolina said:


> Oh my, the Philippines will be getting this before the US. Take that Apple!



I am not sure if it's going to Philippines. Have you seen any official release? I think the EOS M2 will only be available in Japan and China.


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## AvTvM (Dec 5, 2013)

Woody said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > It's just that most Europeans are smart enough to refuse buying sub-par products at grossly inflated prices.
> ...



Not rubbish. At 299 euro lots and lots of europeans - including many germans - would have bought an eos-m plus 22 lens. Unlile US citizens it was just never offered to them at that price. Probably canon thought europeans would be more stupid. Or they were sitting on much less special treatment eos m waste around here. 

Anyway, I would not buy an eos m1 or m2 no matter how low the price. but not because i consider a big fat mirrorslapper to be better than mirrorless cameras, but rather because the eos m comes without a viewfinder.


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## Rienzphotoz (Dec 6, 2013)

For a change, the Americans don't get to have everything first


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