# From DPR "Canon 5Ds is a camera for those that know what they are doing"



## pedro (Jul 7, 2015)

Well, according to this asessment, this leaves room for the low light 18 MP 5Dx, next to the 1Dx workhorse...anyone?
http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/56102780


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 8, 2015)

I think that many have made the same comment including DPR the day the camera was announced. It hasn't changed.

To get the extra high resolution that the camera is capable of, it requires very good technique. No secret there. 
However, it will never be worse than any other camera with fewer pixels, and almost always quite a bit better.


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## Don Haines (Jul 8, 2015)

To be honest, you can say the same thing for any camera more advanced than a p/s...... and you can even say that for the more advanced p/s cameras.....

And then we have my friend who specializes in iPhone photography and comes up with fantastic images that win photo contests......

The most important piece of kit is the part behind the camera.


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## PureClassA (Jul 8, 2015)

Agreed, Don.

If you have enough REAL skill and technique to properly shoot a 5D Mk III for example, then you should make an easy transition to a 5DS. Everything about it is the same. The only thing you have to make an adjustment to is perfecting your posture and thereby controlling body motion when shooting. Frankly, any experienced shooter should have that pretty well mastered and controlling hand held shooting with a 5DS should merely be a comparably small refinement if any coming from any other pro-grade DSLR


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## KeithBreazeal (Jul 17, 2015)

It's here. Now lets see if I know what I'm doing. Maybe Ill put the 300L / 2.8 on it and see what I get.



Canon 5DS has arrived- game changer by Keith Breazeal, on Flickr


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## Eldar (Jul 17, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> Agreed, Don.
> 
> If you have enough REAL skill and technique to properly shoot a 5D Mk III for example, then you should make an easy transition to a 5DS. Everything about it is the same. The only thing you have to make an adjustment to is perfecting your posture and thereby controlling body motion when shooting. Frankly, any experienced shooter should have that pretty well mastered and controlling hand held shooting with a 5DS should merely be a comparably small refinement if any coming from any other pro-grade DSLR


I agree with this. I find it a bit amusing that some seem to think that this camera is a whole new sport, requiring a totally new set of skills. For regular shooting I have changed nothing. When I use it with the 600mm I am a bit more focused on shutter speed, but everything else is pretty much same same. If you fail with the 5DS/5DSR, you'll also fail with the 5DIII.


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## KeithBreazeal (Jul 17, 2015)

Here's my first photo at 1 am. Needless to say, not idea outdoor lighting. But... wow!
Lens was my old 24-105L at f11, so not cutting edge.



5DS test 1 camera display © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal, on Flickr

Screen shot all the in LR6 zoom magnification. It defined the periods in U.S.A. That's pretty good. 



5DS testing Camera display zoomed © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal, on Flickr


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## Tugela (Jul 17, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I think that many have made the same comment including DPR the day the camera was announced. It hasn't changed.
> 
> To get the extra high resolution that the camera is capable of, it requires very good technique. No secret there.
> However, it will never be worse than any other camera with fewer pixels, and almost always quite a bit better.



Does that mean that the people who buy it now "know what they are doing"?

I suspect that 90% of the cameras sold will be for the purchasers to demonstrate that to other photographers.

If I buy one I will be able to strut my stuff and look down on others because I "know what I am doing" (as evidenced by my shiny scuff free new camera)? Sort of like the folk who buy sport utility vehicles for the looks, but never leave the city


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## Tugela (Jul 17, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> Agreed, Don.
> 
> If you have enough REAL skill and technique to properly shoot a 5D Mk III for example, then you should make an easy transition to a 5DS. Everything about it is the same. The only thing you have to make an adjustment to is perfecting your posture and thereby controlling body motion when shooting. Frankly, any experienced shooter should have that pretty well mastered and controlling hand held shooting with a 5DS should merely be a comparably small refinement if any coming from any other pro-grade DSLR



Or you could just increase the shutter speed. Problem solved.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 17, 2015)

Tugela said:


> Does that mean that the people who buy it now "know what they are doing"?
> 
> I suspect that 90% of the cameras sold will be for the purchasers to demonstrate that to other photographers.
> 
> If I buy one I will be able to strut my stuff and look down on others because I "know what I am doing" (as evidenced by my shiny scuff free new camera)? Sort of like the folk who buy sport utility vehicles for the looks, but never leave the city



Of course! Photography is mostly about how you look while taking pictures. Thus...the Nikon Df.


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## jeffa4444 (Jul 17, 2015)

"Nikon apparently told re-sellers that they expected the sales for the Df to be very low. At the moment, re-sellers are barely catching up with the demand and the number of units sold far exceeded their expectations! I was rather surprised by this, considering how vocal some people got on our site and others regarding the Df" 

https://photographylife.com/nikon-df-heart-vs-head-rebuttal


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## AcutancePhotography (Jul 17, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Tugela said:
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> > Does that mean that the people who buy it now "know what they are doing"?
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Or white lenses!


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## unfocused (Jul 17, 2015)

AcutancePhotography said:


> neuroanatomist said:
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Or battery grips! (Yes, I buy them, but I'm honest enough to admit that they are as much about the look as they are about the battery life)


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 17, 2015)

unfocused said:


> Or battery grips! (Yes, I buy them, but I'm honest enough to admit that they are as much about the look as they are about the battery life)



Don't care about the looks, even one LP-E6 was fine. For me, it's *ergonomics*...at the end of a day shooting with a moderately large lens (70-200/2.8, 100-400), using a non-gripped body my hand hurts. The grip adds weight and gripping surface for my whole hand, and that means better balance and comfort. I find the 1-series to be even more comfortable than a gripped body (different shape) and the lack of flex for tripod mounting is a nice bonus.


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## Vern (Jul 17, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> unfocused said:
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> > Or battery grips! (Yes, I buy them, but I'm honest enough to admit that they are as much about the look as they are about the battery life)
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ditto - I got used to shooting with the F1 and a motor drive almost 30 years ago (while walking to school, uphill both ways) and like the extra stability and balance of a grip - plus shutter release available for portraits. Light weight doesn't feature highly for me. Extra battery life is just a bonus.


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## 9VIII (Jul 17, 2015)

Tugela said:


> PureClassA said:
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> > Agreed, Don.
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Bingo.
Adjusting for high resolution photography is not hard at all.
Last weekend I still needed to practice good technique to get some blur on running water, but that has nothing to do with resolution.


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## Zeidora (Jul 17, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> unfocused said:
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> > Or battery grips! (Yes, I buy them, but I'm honest enough to admit that they are as much about the look as they are about the battery life)
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+1 also for portrait orientation


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## unfocused (Jul 17, 2015)

Zeidora said:


> ...for portrait orientation



Funny thing is, I've always found the portrait orientation upside down. I think it has to do with shooting film and where the film advance lever was. Old habits die hard.


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## Tugela (Jul 17, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Tugela said:
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> > Does that mean that the people who buy it now "know what they are doing"?
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For the vast majority of people who buy these cameras, yes.


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## Tugela (Jul 17, 2015)

jeffa4444 said:


> "Nikon apparently told re-sellers that they expected the sales for the Df to be very low. At the moment, re-sellers are barely catching up with the demand and the number of units sold far exceeded their expectations! I was rather surprised by this, considering how vocal some people got on our site and others regarding the Df"
> 
> https://photographylife.com/nikon-df-heart-vs-head-rebuttal



I know that the P900 is backordered up the yazoo, so Nikon must be doing something right.


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## Tugela (Jul 17, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> unfocused said:
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> > Or battery grips! (Yes, I buy them, but I'm honest enough to admit that they are as much about the look as they are about the battery life)
> ...



I find the 1D to be a giant pig, personally.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 17, 2015)

Tugela said:


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The majority of people who buy a Nikon Df? Yes, that could certainly be true. 

Making such a statement about the 'vast majority of people' who buy a 5Ds is quite ludicrous, and only serves to make you look foolish, silly...and perhaps slightly envious.


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## Tugela (Jul 18, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


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Most of the market for high end prosumer cameras are people with large disposable incomes who want "nothing but the best". They don't actually know that much about the merits of one system over another, they want the status symbol. Although they are basically taking snapshots with their 5Ds (or whatever), they wouldn't be seen dead with a Rebel (for example), a camera that would serve their purposes just as well. And the reason is that a Rebel is for common people, not them.

Maybe you don't like it, but that is who is buying these sorts of camera for the most part. Your mistake is that because you are an enthusiast, and you have a camera like this, you think that everyone else who has one is also an enthusiast. They are not. They are mostly people with lots of money who spend it on status symbol products. You see the same behavior in every other consumer product market, there is no reason to think that photography is somehow exempt from that.


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## Eldar (Jul 18, 2015)

Tugela said:


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I think you may find it hard to find examples or statistics to back up that. I would be very surprised if you did, unless people like me fall into your defined category.


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## Sporgon (Jul 18, 2015)

Tugela said:


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Flawed psychology here : wanting the very best does not necessarily equate to status symbol. In many cases people who can afford and want 'the very best' often keep it hidden out of view.

Anyway, someone who wants 'the very best' is going to by a Sony a7RII aren't they ? <sarcasm - the lowest form of wit  >


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 18, 2015)

Eldar said:


> Tugela said:
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> > Most of the market for high end prosumer cameras are people with large disposable incomes who want "nothing but the best".
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He's just another arm-chair market researcher, ludicrous claims but no data to support them. :


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## msm (Jul 18, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


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Yeah unlike for instance you who always back up your claims with solid data :


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 18, 2015)

msm said:


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In fact, I frequently do. But sometimes there's simply no need, because what I'm stating is simple fact which stands on its own in spite of silly obfuscation and weasel-words from certain individuals.


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## old-pr-pix (Jul 18, 2015)

The discussion so far has ignored another group: those who have sufficient funds and have no idea how to use pro-grade cameras; yet, they truly want to learn and aspire to become at least decent photographers.

At nearly every visit to the local pro-shop I see someone in that general category pumping the sales staff for help understanding and using their first DSLR which just happens to be a $5000 camera/lens combo they bought last month. The classes they offer are filled with lots of people with 6D's, 5DIII's, D750's, and D810's who obviously know little; but, are anxious to learn. Likely a few might breakthrough and become pro's, most will probably wind-up shooting slightly better than average snap-shots. Hopefully all enjoy photography for a long time.

There does seem to be a practical threshold though for those just jumping into "serious" photography for the first time. I have yet to see anyone with a 1DX, D4S or 645Z doing anything other than teaching the classes. It's too soon to say whether the 5Ds(R) falls in this category.


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## 9VIII (Jul 18, 2015)

I'm not sure how relevant it is to this thread, but I went hiking with friends last weekend, and twice I was asked if I was "self taught" as a photographer.
As though some kind of rigorous training is a prerequisite to owning an 1100D.
I was kind of shocked that people think there's so much learning inbolved. Yes, the really complex stuff is there if you want it but most of the technical stuff we talk about here doesn't even have a lot to do with the act of shooting, that part is mostly creative and in your head, the only training that's really necessary is the same approarch as I usually take with new electronics and just hit every button in sequence and see what happens. There isn't a lot to go wrong and the effects are fairly evident in the result.
Obviously these people had little to no experience with a camera, but it's surprising that the subject is perceived as being so complex in general.

Which may or may not support the position that people would buy the 5Ds just to look cool.

The unfortunate thing about people taking classes for photography is that they probably see it as an investment of some sort when really it's just another product being sold to the consumer. People expecting to turn a hobby into something productive are in for a shock.
I have a feeling that's another one of those generational gaps that hasn't gone away yet, people think you need to be someone special to run a camera.
Back in the 90's developing film meant that practice was both expensive and time consuming. It seems that culturally it still hasn't quite sunk in that "taking a photo" has gone from a process that takes hours to produce a finished result, to being able to look at the results of your combination of camera settings within seconds of pressing the button.
Learning to use a camera is an order of magnitude faster now than it was 20 years ago.
I seriously think people should be giving cameras to their kids from a fairly young age, used cameras are dirt cheap compared to the other toys they have nowdays, and probably far more educational.


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## msm (Jul 18, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> But sometimes there's simply no need, because what I'm stating is simple fact which stands on its own in spite of silly obfuscation and weasel-words from certain individuals.



Oh you mean like refusing to relate to established definitions of well defined concepts, instead trying to twist the discussion over on your misinterpretation of those concepts. Of which you can't even provide a meaningful definition. Yeah I know who my prime candidate of beeing among those "certain individuals" is :.


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## bdunbar79 (Jul 18, 2015)

Tugela said:


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Yeah I'm curious too. How do you know that?


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 18, 2015)

msm said:


> neuroanatomist said:
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I mean hiding behind those 'established definitions' to avoid answering a direct question, and in so doing being intentionally misleading about the capabilities of a camera, and supporting false statements by others. To find the prime candidate, use a mirror.


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## scyrene (Jul 19, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> unfocused said:
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> > Or battery grips! (Yes, I buy them, but I'm honest enough to admit that they are as much about the look as they are about the battery life)
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Interesting. I've never used a battery grip, but I find the 5D3+supertele fine (I have ickle hands though).


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## LonelyBoy (Jul 20, 2015)

Tugela said:


> Most of the market for high end prosumer cameras are people with large disposable incomes who want "nothing but the best". They don't actually know that much about the merits of one system over another, they want the status symbol. Although they are basically taking snapshots with their 5Ds (or whatever), they wouldn't be seen dead with a Rebel (for example), a camera that would serve their purposes just as well. And the reason is that a Rebel is for common people, not them.
> 
> Maybe you don't like it, but that is who is buying these sorts of camera for the most part. Your mistake is that because you are an enthusiast, and you have a camera like this, you think that everyone else who has one is also an enthusiast. They are not. They are mostly people with lots of money who spend it on status symbol products. You see the same behavior in every other consumer product market, there is no reason to think that photography is somehow exempt from that.



This is absolutely absurd. I took my SL1 and 18-135STM to my girlfriend's trail race. Multiple people were impressed by my awesome camera and thought I was the pro shooting the event. People who are not photogeeks just see "big camera with protruding lens". My girlfriend couldn't tell a 5D3 from a T6i any more than she could tell a Ferrari from a Lamborghini (or I could tell a Hermes bag from a Gucci, or a rose from a tulip).


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## Tugela (Jul 20, 2015)

bdunbar79 said:


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You think that photography is somehow different from all the other consumer markets, such as cars, watches, TVs and all the rest?

Most high end sales are for status symbols, not because the buyers really "need" it. The exception of course would be professionals, who do actually need it. But most everyone else does not, and the vast majority of people who do buy these things buy them as expensive toys. They have to have the "best", even if they don't really know why they actually need it.


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## Tugela (Jul 20, 2015)

LonelyBoy said:


> Tugela said:
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> > Most of the market for high end prosumer cameras are people with large disposable incomes who want "nothing but the best". They don't actually know that much about the merits of one system over another, they want the status symbol. Although they are basically taking snapshots with their 5Ds (or whatever), they wouldn't be seen dead with a Rebel (for example), a camera that would serve their purposes just as well. And the reason is that a Rebel is for common people, not them.
> ...



Right. And those with money who DO take pictures don't want to be lumped with common people like you. To demonstrate that they are really serious amateurs, shooting with an SL1 would not do, because that is a cheap camera any Joe Blo (such as yourself) could buy. No, to prove that they are serious they HAVE to have a high end system. Remember, they are not trying to impress regular folk, they are trying to impress *other* photographers. If you are carrying around a 5D (or better still, a 1D), other photographers will think that you are super skilled and advanced, when in fact you are merely taking family snapshots that anyone with a smartphone could do just as well.

When I go down to the seawall in the evenings, I see many people like that wandering around. Very few of them are taking the sort of effort needed to craft a fine photograph. No doubt it makes them feel good about themselves personally, but lets be honest about it.


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## bdunbar79 (Jul 21, 2015)

Tugela said:


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What an absolute load of crap.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 21, 2015)

bdunbar79 said:


> What an absolute load of crap.



Well, you have to consider the motivation. Good Ol' William, oft referred to as the Bard of Avon, wrote about it:

_O, beware, my lord, of jealousy;
It is the green-ey'd monster, which doth mock
The meat it feeds on. _


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## retroreflection (Jul 21, 2015)

There is an infinity of potential thoughts to dwell on.
Many are more productive than the baseless imagining of other people's motivations.
Many are also healthier than the construction of class warfare based systems of contempt for other people's purchases.

A photographic project of portraits of well healed photographers taken with entry level gear could be a constructive beginning of your transition away from this dark habit. That assumes the process will teach you to see the humanity in these poor souls trapped within their consumerist vanities.


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## LonelyBoy (Jul 22, 2015)

Tugela said:


> Right. And those with money who DO take pictures don't want to be lumped with common people like you. To demonstrate that they are really serious amateurs, shooting with an SL1 would not do, because that is a cheap camera any Joe Blo (such as yourself) could buy. No, to prove that they are serious they HAVE to have a high end system. Remember, they are not trying to impress regular folk, they are trying to impress *other* photographers. If you are carrying around a 5D (or better still, a 1D), other photographers will think that you are super skilled and advanced, when in fact you are merely taking family snapshots that anyone with a smartphone could do just as well.
> 
> When I go down to the seawall in the evenings, I see many people like that wandering around. Very few of them are taking the sort of effort needed to craft a fine photograph. No doubt it makes them feel good about themselves personally, but lets be honest about it.



I hope it wasn't the intent, but this could easily be read as you putting me (and lots of other people) down, and being extremely conceited about your own abilities and efforts.


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