# Canon Announces EOS 60D



## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 26, 2010)

```
<div id="attachment_4834" class="wp-caption aligncenter" style="width: 585px"><a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/60D.jpg"><img class="size-full wp-image-4834" title="60D" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/60D.jpg" alt="" width="575" height="183" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Canon EOS 60D</p></div>
<p><strong>London, UK, 26th August 2010</strong> – Canon today announces the latest addition to its world-famous EOS series of Digital SLR (DSLR) cameras Ã¢â‚¬â€œ the new EOS 60D. Replacing the EOS 50D, the EOS 60D is designed for photographers who want to take their skills to the next level, offering high performance, a series of creative features, a Vari-angle LCD screen and enhanced ergonomics Ã¢â‚¬â€œ empowering photography enthusiasts to capture outstanding stills and Full High Definition (HD) video for unique, creative results.</p>
<p><strong>High speed, high resolution</strong></p>
<p>With an 18 Megapixel APS-C sensor, the EOS 60D offers high levels of detail and a magnification of 1.6x the focal length of the lens to capture poster-size images in a variety of aspect ratios*1. CanonÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s powerful DIGIC 4 technology rapidly processes image information captured from the CMOS sensorÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s four-channel output, providing outstanding colour reproduction, as well as high-speed shooting at 5.3fps in bursts of 58 full-resolution JPEGs.</p>
<p>A standard ISO range of 100-6400 is extendable to 12800, providing smooth images with minimal noise in low light conditions. A 9-point, all cross-type autofocus (AF) system also provides swift and accurate focusing, with an extra-sensitive centre point for lenses faster than f/2.8, allowing photographers to artistically employ a shallow depth of field during portraiture or for more atmospheric shooting.</p>
<p>The EOS 60D features CanonÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s iFCL metering system, first introduced with the acclaimed EOS 7D, with a 63-zone Dual-Layer sensor.  Information on subject location is gathered from the Auto Focus system, and is combined with colour and luminance readings for consistent accurate exposures whatever the situation. The Integrated Speedlite transmitter also provides in-camera control of multiple EX flash units for more creative lighting.</p>
<p><strong>Shoot from all angles</strong></p>
<p>A new 7.7cm (3.0Ã¢â‚¬Â) Vari-angle wide LCD monitor features a 3:2 aspect ratio and a 1,040k dot resolution, providing added flexibility and allowing photographers to view their images in incredible detail. The Vari-angle wide LCD helps frame shots from difficult angles, and can be positioned with Live View enabled to achieve the desired composition if shooting isnÃ¢â‚¬â„¢t possible using the viewfinder. The ability to capture wildlife portraits, overhead shots or ground-level photography is instantly enhanced, and the surface of the screen features an anti-reflective, water-repellent coating to protect the screen allows easy viewing in bright light and from a variety of angles.</p>
<p><strong>Empowering creativity</strong></p>
<p>A new Basic + function makes it easy for photographers to add their own creative touch to images without worrying about changing settings. Photographers can add ambiance to a scene by shooting according to lighting and scene type, with Portrait, Landscape, Close-Up, Sport, Night Snapshot or Creative AUTO modes all available. Different effects can be achieved by shooting with Basic + enhancements such as Daylight, Cloudy or Sunset or pre-set Picture Styles including Vivid, Soft, Warm or Monochrome.</p>
<p>Designed to provide power for those who wish to extend their creative vision, the EOS 60D features a host of new functions that help capture better images and in-camera effects to add an extra dimension. The powerful DIGIC 4 processor supports in-camera RAW image processing, allowing photographers to edit settings such as brightness, contrast, white balance or correct distortion or chromatic aberration. The edited image can then be resaved as a JPEG, ready to be printed or uploaded to a PC or the web.</p>
<p>For photographers who want to add post-production effects to their images without the need for expensive software, the EOS 60D also features a range of new creative filters that can be applied in-camera. Filters including Grainy B/W, Soft Focus, Toy Camera Effect and Miniature Effect provide images with a different feel, allowing photographers to create a themed collection – using Grainy B/W to give images a reportage style, for example Ã¢â‚¬â€œ or easily smooth skin tone in portraits with Soft Focus.</p>
<p><strong>EOS Movies: Full HD video with complete control</strong></p>
<p>Offering photographers the freedom to go beyond stills, the EOS 60D captures 1920x1080p HD video with a variety of user-selectable frame rates, including 30, 25 and 24fps, as well as 720p video at 60 and 50fps. Movie Crop mode is also available, recording with the central 640×480 pixel area of the sensor to create an effective magnification of approximately seven times the focal length of the lens.</p>
<p>Full manual control in Movie mode allows photographers to employ their own exposure and focus settings and take advantage of the effects achieved from CanonÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s wide range of EF lenses. An external stereo microphone terminal and the ability to adjust sound recording level ensures the audio track recorded matches the visual quality of the video, capturing broadcast-quality sound.</p>
<p>For those who want to share images with friends and family, an integrated HDMI port is compatible with Consumer Electronics Control (HDMI-CEC), allowing video and images to be viewed on any compatible HD-ready TV and controlled via the TV remote.</p>
<p><strong>Designed for flexibility</strong></p>
<p>The EOS 60D features a completely redesigned body, combining an ergonomically enhanced, curved shape with a new button layout to make it quick and comfortable for photographers to change settings. Frequently used camera controls are grouped together for easy access, while the Quick Control Dial, Multi-controller and SET button have all been merged into one Multi Control Dial, enabling photographers to operate menus and enter settings quickly using their thumb. The mode dial also features a lock button, preventing unintentional changes to settings mid-shoot.</p>
<p>A dedicated Quick Control access button allows photographers to instantly reach the most common shooting settings and playback controls. Customising the functions of a number of buttons is also possible, allowing photographers to tailor the camera to suit their individual needs. To help achieve landscapes with perfectly level horizons, a horizontal Electronic Level can be displayed in the viewfinder or in Live View to assist composition and remove any potential need for post-production correction.</p>
<p>The EOS 60D is one of the latest Canon models to support high-capacity SDXC memory cards, providing up to 2TB of available space, allowing photographers to keep shooting HD video and full resolution RAW and JPEG stills without changing cards. For better management of larger image libraries on the camera, EOS 60D photographers can add a rating of 1 to 5 to their favourite images, allowing them to be easily located and viewed on-screen. Once transferred from the camera to a PC, the tags can also be viewed using a number of image editing and management programs, including CanonÃ¢â‚¬â„¢s DPP software.</p>
<p><strong>Share the moment</strong></p>
<p>For photographers who want to transfer content wirelessly, the EOS 60D includes Eye-Fi connected functions*2. The EOS 60D features a dedicated Eye-Fi section in the User Interface allowing WiFi functionality to be turned off when not required to save battery life</p>
<p><strong>EOS 60D features at a glance:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>18 MP APS-C CMOS sensor</li>
<li>Advanced creative features with Basic +</li>
<li>Vari-angle 7.7cm (3.0Ã¢â‚¬Â) 3:2 ratio LCD</li>
<li>Full HD movies with manual control</li>
<li>DIGIC 4</li>
<li>ISO 100-6400, H:12800</li>
<li>5.3fps shooting for up to 58 JPEGs</li>
<li>9-point cross type AF System</li>
<li>iFCL metering with 63-zone Dual-layer Sensor</li>
<li>Integrated Speedlite transmitter</li>
<li>In-camera RAW processing</li>
</ul>
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## LukeS (Aug 26, 2010)

From dpreview..
AF microadjust: No

What!!!??? Are you kidding me?


Comparing the 60D to the Nikon D90 replacement, the D7000, this is a real disappointment:
- 100% viewfinder
- dual memory cards
- 6-8fps
- 39 AF points
- mag body
- 25600 ISO


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## Woody (Aug 26, 2010)

LukeS said:


> From dpreview..
> AF microadjust: No
> What!!!??? Are you kidding me?
> Comparing the 60D to the Nikon D90 replacement, the D7000, this is a real disappointment:
> ...



And worse still, the AWFUL price compared to Nikon's upcoming D7000 and Sony's A55.

My prediction: the 60D, like the 1000D, is gonna be a dead fish.

Oh, and where are 14-24 f/2.8 and 24-70 f/2.8 IS??? Canon photography department is heading towards a disastrous financial year.


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## Cyrax (Aug 26, 2010)

Pricing info:

"Pricing and Availability
The Canon EOS 60D Digital SLR camera is scheduled to be delivered to U.S. dealers toward the end of September, and will be sold in a body-only configuration at an estimated retail price of $1,099.00. It will also be offered in a kit version with Canon's EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM zoom lens at an estimated retail price of $1,399.00. The Canon BG-E9 battery grip is scheduled to be available toward the end of September and sell at an estimated retail price of $270.00."

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/about_canon?pageKeyCode=pressreldetail&docId=0901e024801e8288

I also like the new angled top info screen. That's pretty cool.  Engadget photo gallery:

http://www.engadget.com/photos/canon-60d-press-shots/#3299046


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## MCK (Aug 26, 2010)

So what do you guys think ? 
Does the 60d make sence or shall I better go for the 7D? 
What about the body ? Is it really plastic ?? 

I am sort of disappointed


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## chrisaix (Aug 26, 2010)

i have the 450D and been waiting for this, i might just get the 7d for 200 more. this is a bummer


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## Cyrax (Aug 26, 2010)

Yes, I'm disappointed too. This was going to be a release-day purchase when I assumed it was going to have movie-mode auto-focus. Not to complain completely though, because there's plenty of good new features that make this a worthy successor to the 50D. I'm very happy to see the Speedlite control made it from the 7D!

Now I'm going to wait for the DPReview to see whether there's a significant bump in IQ compared to my current T2i. I'm even re-aligning my prospects and might just save and scrounge for a 5DII now (or 7D?)...


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## editreject (Aug 26, 2010)

MCK said:


> So what do you guys think ?
> Does the 60d make sence or shall I better go for the 7D?
> What about the body ? Is it really plastic ??
> 
> I am sort of disappointed



Very disappointed. Go with the 7D or if you are not committed to one lens type, go with the Nikon D7000 in the same price range when that is released. As others mentioned, the specs for that blow this away.


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## chrisaix (Aug 26, 2010)

i think, this camera are intended for rebel users who want a bit larger and better body but don't want the bulk of 7d. as for 40d/50d owners its a disappointment, canon is pushing them to go to 7d route. i think thats their strategy.


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## teddywish (Aug 26, 2010)

Being a 30D user who has been longing for an upgrade,

I can accept the articulating screen, plastic body, switching to SD card, 1% increase in frame coverage,
but not "No AF Adjustment" !

I think I am going to purchase a Sigma lens instead of upgrading the body,

as a protest ~~


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## hoktar (Aug 26, 2010)

Cyrax said:


> Not to complain completely though, because there's plenty of good new features that make this a worthy successor to the 50D.



Well could you get a little more deatiles about the plenty of good new features that make this a worthy successor to the 50D?
Cause I can't find a damn single one!!!!!!!! Do you maybe mean the 5,3 fps instead of the 50D's 6fps?
Or the smaller body? Or the plastic body?
And don't tell me you mean the sensor cause that is state of the art and the minimum.


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## Cyrax (Aug 26, 2010)

hoktar said:


> Cyrax said:
> 
> 
> > Not to complain completely though, because there's plenty of good new features that make this a worthy successor to the 50D.
> ...



Yikes...looks like I'm eating my words after seeing the preview on DPR. The spec and feature upgrades looked worthy, but the details that I didn't read initially throw this camera back down to a "T3i with a better grip" status. Meh. 7D it is for me.


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## hoktar (Aug 26, 2010)

Exactly, thats a slightly better 550D.
Same here, 7D for me.

Die Canon.
I hope they losse many customers to Nikon because of this. I wonder if they get feedback somehow, about how they screwed this up.


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## ronderick (Aug 26, 2010)

mmm.... makes me wonder if they really need a XXD class machine now...

There's not much room left to cover between the 550D and the 7D, by the way it looks. I wonder if the $1099 price is really going to attract people to buy this.


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## Inst (Aug 26, 2010)

Well, time to jump ship to Nikon at first opportunity. I don't like Nikon either, given that I think they gouge their customers in many respects, but it's been 2 product cycles since the 1D3 and Canon still hasn't fixed their product R&D.


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## c.d.embrey (Aug 26, 2010)

*PDN Online* tested a pre-production model and had this to say *"Canon's added a smattering of built-in filters for tweaking your shots in camera: grainy B&W filter, soft focus filter, miniature filter, and a toy camera filter. We tried them all and they were...cute. (That's really all there is to say about them.) *

That quote tells me all I need to know about the 60D.

Read the whole review here: http://www.pdngearguide.com/gearguide/content_display/reviews/e3i7666b0f9857950214c319c4a13ebd78b


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## hoktar (Aug 26, 2010)

Awesme c.d. -.-
What a joke this camera is.

Does it have full AF during movie mode now or not?


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## c.d.embrey (Aug 26, 2010)

MCK said:


> So what do you guys think ?
> Does the 60d make sence or shall I better go for the 7D?
> What about the body ? Is it really plastic ??
> 
> I am sort of disappointed



From the PDN Online review: *According to a Canon rep we spoke with, the 60D has a polycarbonate plastic resin exterior over an aluminum chassis. It weighs 2.3 ounces lighter than the 50D: 26.6 ounces (60D) vs. 28.9 ounces (50D).*

Disappointed, but not surprised.

Read the review here: http://www.pdngearguide.com/gearguide/content_display/reviews/e3i7666b0f9857950214c319c4a13ebd78b


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## c.d.embrey (Aug 26, 2010)

chrisaix said:


> i think, this camera are intended for rebel users who want a bit larger and better body but don't want the bulk of 7d. as for 40d/50d owners its a disappointment, canon is pushing them to go to 7d route. i think thats their strategy.



Their *strategy* may drive some *present Canon owners* to become *new Nikon owners*.

I'm going to check-out the AF-S DX NIKKOR 10-24mm f/3.5-4.5G ED at my local pro shop. If it's as good as my EF-S 10-22 f3.5-4.5 than I'll go Nikon. If the Nikon D7000 takes a CF card in one of its two slots I'll buy it, if not I'll wait for the D300s replacement (D400 ?). I'm in no hurry, the 40D is still making me money (and will continue to do so for a long time).


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## ecking (Aug 26, 2010)

I don't know what you guys or surprised about. That a less expensive product than the 7D isn't way better than the 7D? This is Canon actually streamlining their line up. 2000D, 550D, 60D, 7D, 5DMK3, 1DMK4, 1DSMK4. 
Now they can go and remove the other old rebels from the website, and not claim to offer a whopping 11 SLRs at one time. And it's obvious that the 2000D is just going to the t1i's sensor using digic 4 stuffed in a 1000D body with the t2i's screen on the back. The xxD is not a flagship series, expect all the game changing stuff to land somewhere else first and filter down.

It looks like the tiers are:
1. Consumer
2. Amateur
3. Advanced Amateur
4. Semi-Pro
5. Pro
6. Pro Sports
7. Pro Studio

Also everyone is ready to sell and move to Nikon based on rumours? Wtf? Sell if you need to but I'm pretty sure there is no D7000 yet and I bet it's won't be what everyone is expecting.


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## brano97 (Aug 26, 2010)

c.d.embrey said:


> From the PDN Online review: *According to a Canon rep we spoke with, the 60D has a polycarbonate plastic resin exterior over an aluminum chassis. It weighs 2.3 ounces lighter than the 50D: 26.6 ounces (60D) vs. 28.9 ounces (50D).*
> 
> Disappointed, but not surprised.



I remember someone talking about plastic body being OK on this forum, if it was the kind of plastic Glocks and other guns are made from. Actually, polycarbonate *is* that kind of plastic. Doesnt have to be the same quality though...


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## hoktar (Aug 26, 2010)

ecking said:


> I don't know what you guys or surprised about. That a less expensive product than the 7D isn't way better than the 7D?



Are you serious? Not way better? The 60D isn't just not way better it's fucking terrible! It's a crippled copy of the 550D. It doesn't even come slightly close to the 7D. Though the 7D is already one year old.
At least the Body could have been mag. but no, it's a little plastic shitpiece.

How about you take a good look at Nikon and their "xxD range" Model. The 60D is a big joke compared to Nikons. And not even a good one cause they made a lot of ppl. waiting when releasing the 7D first.

Assholes.


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## MCK (Aug 26, 2010)

hoktar said:


> ecking said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know what you guys or surprised about. That a less expensive product than the 7D isn't way better than the 7D?
> ...


I agree


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## Cyrax (Aug 26, 2010)

While I don't understand people who get outraged (^^) at a product that they have no control over, I do wish that Canon would have given us a bit of a hint 6 months ago that they were restructuring their line-up to make the 60D more of a "Pro T2i" than a "dumbed down 5DII." Then the expectations surely wouldn't have been as high for everybody?

People have been pandering for months, saying "The 7D is NOT the 50D replacement!!" Well...apparently Canon doesn't see it that way. For the regular consumers with money to burn and enjoy doing the occasional shoot for family and friends, the 60D is perfect for them. For the rest of us enthusiasts and semi-pro's? See the many flaming outrage posts that follow this one...


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## Peerke (Aug 26, 2010)

:'(,
Yes, big disappointment here too. I guess the best way to make a statement is to keep my 40D until the 5DIII (7DII) comes out and buy a 5DII (7D) second hand. 
I won't be switching to Nikon. Look at the new lenses. OK, not a new 24-70, but that will come one day too, I'm sure.


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## that1guy (Aug 26, 2010)

Just curious where everyone is getting the specs for the D7000...I haven't seen a press release for that camera yet. Is it from Nikon rumors? Just curious, I would be interested in reading.

Also curious where I can get a 7D for only $1,300. Has it really dropped that low? someone said you could get a 7D for only $200 more than this. If that is really the case, I would go for the 7D. If 7D is still selling for $1,500 though, I could see why someone would buy this instead. It's closer in price to the T2i but w/ better AF, faster fps, and a little bigger grip. If I were strapped for cash but needed a camera now, I would pay a $300 premium over the T2i for those improvements, and be willing to pocket the $400 I would save from buying the 7D. 

I know it may not be what everyone was wishing for, but I think people in a situation similar to what I described will be willing to buy this. I guess we will just see


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## ELK (Aug 26, 2010)

c.d.embrey said:


> chrisaix said:
> 
> 
> > i think, this camera are intended for rebel users who want a bit larger and better body but don't want the bulk of 7d. as for 40d/50d owners its a disappointment, canon is pushing them to go to 7d route. i think thats their strategy.
> ...



Yes, it's a strange move that Canon did with 60D. This upgrade is lacking the upgrade itself in many ways. But if 60D gives better high-ISO performance than 7D (is it possible) and if it's price reaches $850 in one year, then it will be a great backup camera mor me that time.

I personally think that Canon should sell 550D at $700, 60D at $900 and The-60D-we-expected-which-would-successfully-compete-against-not-yet-announced-60D-killer-NikonD7000 at $1200. Given that D7000 will really have all that predicted exciting feature set.

Whatever we talk about 60D, it's extremely funny to hear the people want to move to Nikon purely due to new body announcement. I thought the lenses are more important. Or not??? Just compare the level of innovations in new L lenses and in 60D. Or lust compare the content and style of today's L lenses announcements and 60D announcement.


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## glad (Aug 26, 2010)

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/732047-REG/Canon_4460B003_EOS_60D_DSLR_Digital.html


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## wuschba (Aug 26, 2010)

Hm, I didn't quite understand:

- Is there full AF in video or not?
- Is there a Mic build-in?
- Eye-Fi?! What is that? Is it WLAN?
- "AF microadjust: No." What does that mean?
- What type of battery is used? Am I able to re-use the batteries from my 20D?


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## that1guy (Aug 26, 2010)

wuschba said:


> Hm, I didn't quite understand:
> 
> - Is there full AF in video or not?
> - Is there a Mic build-in?
> ...



I think no microadjust means that it won't do that micro adjustment to your individual lenses that some of the other newer cameras do. Not sure which cameras all do it but I'm pretty sure the 7D and 5Dii both do.

These are Eye-Fi cards:
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/search?Ntt=eye+fi&N=0&InitialSearch=yes
and here is their website:
http://www.eye.fi/

Sorry I can't answer the others for you yet.


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## Peerke (Aug 26, 2010)

DPReview shows a price of â‚¬1149,-. This is â‚¬50,- less than the cheapest price of a 7D in the Netherlands today.

I do wonder who would not pay the â‚¬50,- extra?

Again I really don't understand why it is priced approx â‚¬300,- more expensive in Europe than in the US.


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## that1guy (Aug 26, 2010)

Peerke said:


> DPReview shows a price of â‚¬1149,-. This is â‚¬50,- less than the cheapest price of a 7D in the Netherlands today.
> 
> I do wonder who would not pay the â‚¬50,- extra?
> 
> Again I really don't understand why it is priced approx â‚¬300,- more expensive in Europe than in the US.



Please excuse my ignorance, but do you know about how much that 50 is in us dollars? If it is really close then I agree...not sure why anyone would buy the 60D instead of the 7D. In the US here, when I checked the pricing, the 7D is still about $400 more than the 60D. That is a more substantial gap (at least for me  )


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## Peerke (Aug 26, 2010)

That will be US$63,-


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## that1guy (Aug 26, 2010)

Oh man, are you kidding me? That is nothing! If that is the gap, I would get a 7D all the way. For $400 I will consider a lower model but for $63...well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I sure wouldn't consider the 60D.


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## ronderick (Aug 26, 2010)

that1guy said:


> Oh man, are you kidding me? That is nothing! If that is the gap, I would get a 7D all the way. For $400 I will consider a lower model but for $63...well, I can't speak for anyone else, but I sure wouldn't consider the 60D.



So I guess this is Canon's move to push the fence-sitters into action - live with the 60D, forget about it and grab the 7D, or go for the D7000. 

I guess now we have the split of pro level (1D-line), prosumer (5D, 7D), and consumer (60D, 550D, and 1000D). As for the next step, my guess would be the canceling of the 1000D (or better, stick the EVIL here)


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## hoktar (Aug 26, 2010)

I am about to shoot myself. In Austria where I am from, the 7D costs 1250â‚¬. The 60D costs 1150â‚¬. Plain sick. How ever, I have the great luck to live in Canada now and can pay an extra 400â‚¬ for the 7D here. What a shit. 

I hate Canon for this retarded 60D


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## Shompis (Aug 26, 2010)

Sounds like Nikon looked at what Canon had (Canon EOS 7D) and designed the D7000, and Canon looked at what Nikon had (Nikon D90) and designed the EOS 60D.

But Canon was probably not anticipating that the D7000 by the looks of it is actually replacing the D300s and going to compete with the Canon EOS 7D and now Canon EOS 60D aswell!

That said, as many others, I am dissapointed but not entirely surprised by this 60D.

Lowering the fps is probably due to that a single Digic IV can't do better than this with that amount of data.
Microadjustment is pretty useless and will do more harm than good. So I can understand why they removed it.
Plastic body, they looked at D90 I would think and got rid of the Mg body. BIg dissapointment unless the plastic quality is phenomenal, which the T2i is far from and reaches poor quality IMO.


By the way, I have been a bit out of the loop regarding Nikon, but we know for sure that AF in video mode is much faster now? And how did they fix that issue? no Contrast detection AF anymore? I understand how SONY did it with their extra sensor part for AF, did Nikon do the same?


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## Peerke (Aug 26, 2010)

I didn't see prices for the 60D in our shops yet, but if the â‚¬1149,- is true, they won't sell a lot since the 7D is â‚¬1199,- (in US$: 60D for 1455,- and 7D for 1518,-).

Since the 550D is priced â‚¬632,- (US$ 800,-) I think the price of the 60D will drop very soon, but still I won't buy it.


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## Stuart (Aug 26, 2010)

So our fears confirmed, whilst other innovate, us canon users get a flippy plastic screen and some in camera software filters, and the speed lite control. This camera is not aimed at upgraders at all, its more of a higher quality entry camera with bells and whistles :-( 
Compact flash is dead then. 
Â£1200 - Canon EOS 60D + EF-S 18-55mm
Â£200 - new battery grip

Yes its better than my 400D but not enough better!
Now waiting for some 60D vs D95 reviews.....


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## Aputure (Aug 26, 2010)

Been waiting for this one for a long time. To be honest, a bit disappointed, but I still think it'll be a hell of a camera.


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## MCK (Aug 26, 2010)

Aputure said:


> Been waiting for this one for a long time. To be honest, a bit disappointed, but I still think it'll be a hell of a camera.



I agree, that camera is gonna be hell


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## ronderick (Aug 26, 2010)

mmm.... interesting....

The battery for the 60D is LP-E6, the one for 7D and 5D2. This might explain why 60D can last 1,100 shots compared to 7D's 640 shots.

For a comparison of 60D/50D/550D/7D, check the chart at the bottom of this Japanese article: http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20100826_389278.html

At least that's one saving grace :


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## hoktar (Aug 26, 2010)

Aputure said:


> Been waiting for this one for a long time. To be honest, a bit disappointed, but I still think it'll be a hell of a camera.



Lol, seriously, why? It's basically the 550D. One must be pretty dumb to spend an extra 400$ just for a flipscreen.

They really must have been high when developing the 60D. Such a useless piece of junk.
I don't get why there are still ppl. who see anything good about it? It has a flipscreen ok, but this is just a feature that would have made the camera awesome instead of just nice if it had what a usual xxD would have. But now with only having a flipscreen it's worthless.


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## MCK (Aug 26, 2010)

When do you guys expect an upgrade from the 7D ??


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## epsiloneri (Aug 26, 2010)

I'd be mostly interested in if they've been able to get rid of that awful banding visible in high-ISO shots with the 50D and 5D mkII. They've fixed it in the 7D, which was the major reason I upgraded up to it from the 50D. I'm very happy with the 7D sensor, very well behaved compared to the 50D. For the same reason I'm not going FF until 5D mkIII, where I hope they'll also have fixed the banding and AF issues.


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## trulandphoto (Aug 26, 2010)

chrisaix said:


> i think, this camera are intended for rebel users who want a bit larger and better body but don't want the bulk of 7d. as for 40d/50d owners its a disappointment, canon is pushing them to go to 7d route. i think thats their strategy.



I agree totally. Glad I picked up an extra 50D body recently. IMO, the 60D sits at the top of the rebel lineup and the 7D is the real successor to the 50D. When I wear out my 50Ds I expect i will go with whatever is the then current 7D successor.

In a lot of ways, people who were saying there would be no 60D and the 7D is the replacement were right all along.


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## ELK (Aug 26, 2010)

I think 60D will be sold only in limited quantities, about 1000 samples or so. Signed and sealed by Canon CEO and Head of Marketing. I think 1 year is the maximum life cycle for all 3 of them 
So grab the 60D as long as you can, because it'll become very rare soon and available only via Sotheby's!


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## angularvelocity (Aug 26, 2010)

I am so happy that canon _FINALY_ chose to fix the damn AGC.

Thousands of people signed for petition to disable the agc control in the 550d model. However, canon never fixed the agc issue in 550d by firmware update. They did fix the agc issue for 5dmkII though.

Will get the 60D just for the rotating screen and the manual audio gain feature  It's a really nice camera for people who are interested in making videos 

I hope that magic lantern guy would fix the agc issue for 550d too


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## WoodyWindy (Aug 26, 2010)

I don't get why everyone is so disappointed. When the 7D was introduced, the buzz was that it was "the" true successor to the 50D, and that the XXD series was actually going to go away. It is a great step up from the 50D, and is still much cheaper in real terms than most of the preceding XXD line was when introduced.

Then the 550D/T2i came out, with one "shortcoming" compared to the D5000 - no articulating screen - and everyone wondered why. But still bought them in droves. They also noticed the gap in price, and thought, maybe there could be a middle ground camera. But what features could a middle child have to fill the gap without significantly cannibalizing its bigger and smaller brothers?

Now we have that middle ground, and people are complaining that there isn't some massive improvement over the model that is still a few hundred (insert favorite currency) higher, while discounting the fact that most of the major operational pieces are significantly nicer than the body that is a few hundred lower.

My take is, the 60D is exactly what it needs to be. Heck, I might even buy one!


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## editreject (Aug 26, 2010)

While I may be a bit disappointed, I do not understand all the hostility toward Canon on here. You would have thought they just shot your dog or something. If I did not already own the 550D then this would be a serious option for me. It is roughly $500 less that the 7D for the body with some very nice specs plus it is lighter too. I would like to get my hands on one to test it out. That is when I would ultimately make my decision, not on some press release.


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## HilaryC (Aug 26, 2010)

Once again Canon Management Dept listened to their Marketing Dept and came up with a loser.
The 60D is an upgraded rebel series camera. I guess all the soccer moms will be running to their local Camera market in September to pick up this useless product.
Hilary


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## canonguy (Aug 26, 2010)

Shompis said:


> Sounds like Nikon looked at what Canon had (Canon EOS 7D) and designed the D7000, and Canon looked at what Nikon had (Nikon D90) and designed the EOS 60D.
> 
> But Canon was probably not anticipating that the D7000 by the looks of it is actually replacing the D300s and going to compete with the Canon EOS 7D and now Canon EOS 60D aswell!
> 
> ...



MICROADJUSTMENT is one of the best improvements of a DSLR camera. Guess you really dont have an idea on how to make the most out of it


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## ELK (Aug 26, 2010)

WoodyWindy said:


> I don't get why everyone is so disappointed...
> My take is, the 60D is exactly what it needs to be....



I would absolutely agree with you, in case if Canon was the only player in DSLR market. 
In reality though giving out products which are exactly what they need to be, means losing competition. Because competition HAS ALREADY introduced products of lower grade which ARE mode than they need to be. Now really, what will happen to 60D sales if D7000 comes at a same price and with expected feature set? 
1. First-timers: no single semi-pro body seeker will choose 60D over D7000.
2. First-timers: no single lower grade body seeker will choose Canon over Nikon, because a) they won't see which significanlty better body they can upgrade to for reasonable price; b) all the internet is already full of frustrated 60D waiting list;
3. Nikon users - no single Nikon advanced or lower user will switch to Canon for same reasons.
4. Scenario for people that have Canon already is same as always - a) Mostly high-end photographers - keep on going Canon for many reasons (body sucks - lens rules, switch is expensive and the difference doesn't matter in real life, this Nikon-Canon win&lose game will never end etc); b) Mostly below high-end photographers - switch to Nikon, because a) I want it all and I want it now! (I follow the trends, I need low light performance etc); b) I am studio photographer Canon again proves to be concentrated on sports/wildlife lenses only; c) d) e) many different reasons and different scenarios.
5. Videographers. I beleive those who are not in hurry they'll wait for D7000 to decide, but most obviously it's video will be en par with 7D, so Canon's benefit in video will be only in FF, until Nikon comes with it's version.

I beleive 60D is perfectly good camera on it's own. And it's exactly what it needs to be, unless we consider the above.


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## canonguy (Aug 26, 2010)

even the 50D has micro adjustment! this is why i want to upgrade my 40d and of course for a better LCD. but with these specs, im better off with my 40d and save a lot of money.

i dont know with canon but aren't you suppose to upgrade a model and not degrade it???
magnesium to plastic
6+fps to 5+ fps
microadjustment to NONE

oh yeah lets not forget the latest innovation in DSLR technology, the built in post processing sh*t. whats next? maybe embed DPP? congratulations canon this is really something! and canon was the 1st to achieve it!


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## unruled (Aug 26, 2010)

I like mg bodies, but a bigger body than 550d, but remaining light.... I can get with it... given the right circumstances.

however the real dealbreaker is the price. The price is way too close to the 7d. 

The 60d really does seem like an entry level 550d with a bigger body. Thats a big bummer.


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## ravenhair (Aug 26, 2010)

Hello Guys, 60D is a great dissapointment for me to...but lets wait a little longer untile they will test it on DXO... this is where we shall focus and whats important in camera too, not only if the body is plastic, but parameters like dynamic range which canon sucks in big time, tonal range, color and so on. 

For exaple check this one: http://www.dxomark.com/index.php/eng/Camera-Sensor/Compare-sensors/%28appareil1%29/619|0/%28appareil2%29/439|0/%28appareil3%29/272|0/%28onglet%29/0/%28brand%29/Canon/%28brand2%29/Nikon/%28br...and3%29/Canon

Go to the dynamic range panel and look how nikon overpissed Canon...this is what sucks for me at canon the most, this is where i am waiting for improvement. If canon can deliver better quality sensor all other stuff can be forgiven. At least by me.

I was waiting on 60D like little boy on his first toy car, but now i see that 7D it will be. If i handt be so packed up with Canon gear i would seriously think of moving to nikon too...because the sensor, not by anger that 60D is a piece of...


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## trulandphoto (Aug 26, 2010)

WoodyWindy said:


> [...] It is a great step up from the 50D, and is still much cheaper in real terms than most of the preceding XXD line was when introduced.
> 
> [...]
> My take is, the 60D is exactly what it needs to be. Heck, I might even buy one!



Hogwash. This is no step up from 50D, unless you want video, which I do not. Smaller body, SD cards, no microadjust, plastic body... I always thought I'd like an articulating screen but the one on my G11 is a pain in the butt. Just another thing to mess with when getting the camera ready.

Rebel owners will love it. People for whom the 7d and XXd lines are not too much camera will probably pass.


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## DVSdan (Aug 26, 2010)

Disappointing. Canon is clearly trying to drive people towards the 7D and get an extra $600 out of them. 

I was looking to buy the 60D anyways, but it still seems like bs.


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## WoodyWindy (Aug 26, 2010)

trulandphoto said:


> Hogwash. This is no step up from 50D, unless you want video, which I do not. Smaller body, SD cards, no microadjust, plastic body... I always thought I'd like an articulating screen but the one on my G11 is a pain in the butt. Just another thing to mess with when getting the camera ready.
> 
> Rebel owners will love it. People for whom the 7d and XXd lines are not too much camera will probably pass.



Re-read the part you quoted first - that was referring to the 7D as the "great step up" from the 50D, not the 60D.

I still say the 60D is correct for what it is in Canon's new line-up.


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## ravenhair (Aug 26, 2010)

WoodyWindy said:


> I still say the 60D is correct for what it is in Canon's new line-up.



It might be correct, but its released on wrong date. Its like releasing 500D after 550D


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## mivaho (Aug 26, 2010)

Hi,

Just to put in my thoughts on the matter, first post and all. 

I'm in the market for a new camera and was looking at the 50D when I read the rumors about the 60D coming about. Knowing the price would be much higher then the 50D at the present time it would need to be a BIG improvement.

Looking at the price â‚¬ 1,149 as preferred selling price (will drop about a 100 in the store I guess) it's only 100 to 200 euro's less then a 7D over here in Holland (1269 euro). So if I had to make a decision between those I would go for the extra euros and get myself an 7D. But seeing that I need pre sets on the dial because my GF wants to use the cam as well the 7D is not an option even if I had the money.

Not needing video I find the 50D overall a better choice if you look at the price/feature ratio, a 50D sells for about 679 euro at the moment.

So my mind is made up, thanks Canon for helping me out.  I'll get that 50D body with a nice lens on it and wait another 3 to 4 years to see what you come with. Or sooner, who knows?

Michel


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## WoodyWindy (Aug 26, 2010)

ravenhair said:


> WoodyWindy said:
> 
> 
> > I still say the 60D is correct for what it is in Canon's new line-up.
> ...



No, the 60D is a "fresh start" for this position in the model line. The 550D is clearly a lesser camera. The 7D is the true successor to the 50D and is clearly a superior camera. The 60D is almost exactly in between in capabilities and price, but also has a few "new" features (e.g. the swivel back) representative of its later development. I don't think we'll see more than 18MP coming from Canon in the APS C range any time soon. That is effectively their line in the quality sands, and what they feel is the best compromise (with current technology) between resolution, noise, and dynamic range.


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## Idahophoto (Aug 26, 2010)

I agree this camera is a joke. Why someone would pick a 60D over a 50D is beyond me. No PC sync, No metal body, slower FPS to name a few and it uses SD rather than CF cards Where is the Rebel tag in front of the name?. Cool they added a speedlight commander but I had that on my Nikon D90 so all I can say there is it's about time it was added , The tilt screen is a nice feature but thats all I could see on the specs that look any good everything else is a serious downgrade. WTF Canon, this is a huge disappointment!!!


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## Peerke (Aug 26, 2010)

:One positive thing about the 60D just poped up in my mind. This camera won't produce much buyer remorse for people who bought any Canon camera in the past 2 years I guess.


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## awinphoto (Aug 26, 2010)

While I bought the 7D shortly after it's arrival last year and have no budget to personally acquire this camera, I think this was a smart move by Canon. Now before you start to get your defenses up, let me state my 2 cents... There are 2 things i have heard (not agreed with, but read on this site and DPR) is that they contastly want comparisons, such as the 7D vs the D300 nokin, 50D vs the D90, etc... since the 50D wasn't directly aimed at the D90 or D300, I can count numerous comparisons, complaints, etc.... Secondly, the 2nd biggest gripe I read over the years with the X0D series, especially in the last few models when this turned more into a prosumer and consumer based camera, "It's too heavy/uncomfortable/awkward/CF cards are too expensive compared to SD, etc..."... well guess what guys... all your complaints HAVE BEEN HEARD... (Minus the sensor) issue... You complained, they listened... they aimed this squarely at the D90 just like they did with the 7D and the D300 and made is lighter, more compact, SD friendly, and threw in a swivel screen for shits and giggles. Seriously they're screwed if they do and screwed if they dont. Now while, it's slighly a let down from what we're expecting... it's what people griped for, it's what they delivered. It is a shame continuous FPS dropped, the body degraded slightly, and seriously, no Micro AF?!? But then again as in photography, as most pro's no the quality of the pictures are the lenses and if you had it in your budget for $1000 for a body and cant squeeze out another couple hundred for a 7D which may have more features than you need or want, but is one superior camera in it's own right, then you get what you pay for. Buy some lenses, be happy they replaced many lenses today and brought some new ones into the line up like that fisheye and the 70-300 L which sounds interesting if it's up to par optically with the 70-200L's... and take pictures...


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## ELK (Aug 26, 2010)

We really don't notice obvious things just because we hoped to have much different 60D! 
Let's look at the prices.
At this moment on usa.canon.com 50D and 60 are set to equal Estimated Retail Price: $1,099.00 for body only.

This price corresponds to Canon's 60D announcement.
The kit version of 60D with 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM is $1,399.00.

I found a 50D annoucement by Canon, which says "the Canon EOS 50D will be sold in a body-only configuration at an estimated selling price of $1400. It will additionally be offered in a kit version with Canon's EF 28-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM zoom lens at an estimated selling price of $1600." Here it is: http://www.infosyncworld.com/news/n/9704.html
Thanks to pricewatch http://www.canonpricewatch.com/product/02665/Canon-EOS-50D-price.html we have the full story.
The announced $1400 was too abstract and held only month or two then it was around $1100-1200 first year. After 2 years it lost another $200.

The game changer for Canon was 7D - an attempt of direct competition to Nikon DXXX series. Before 7D Canon's top APS-C models was XXD, which had one main idea - "to be right between Nikon DXX and DXXX, to avoid direct competition and have more free space for prices, feature set, upgrade schedules design, marketing and all". Canon deliberately killed XXD idea and complicated their own life, so we can't expect a 7D-like XXD series anymore. Pity. 
Now Canon designs Rebel-like XXD series. Otherwise XXD will become both too expensive (again compare announcements prices).

What is most interesting is that Nikon seems to take old Canon XXD place with the D7000 (if it's expected feature set comes true and if it's not a D300s successor). 
An agreement between Nikon and Canon?


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## Daviii (Aug 26, 2010)

Yeah go buy a nikon D90 which is essentially the same plastic body but with much worse specification. Quite clever.

Many people here is overreacting. This is a very nice camera, way better than 50D in almost any aspect besides burst rate and skeleton, and an absolute seller this christmas.

Not everyone wants a kilogram camera like a tank (7D), nor needs it. 60D is specced right where most DSLR advanced amateurs want to be (Including me), and that's what matters for sales, not the very few 1D owners who hate plastic.

Please people, NOBODY CARES about magnesium in shell construction. In engadget is NOT EVEN MENTIONED. The same way people doesn't even know there's a difference between pentaprism and pentamirror (Pentawhat?)

60D is going to sell like hotcakes, and everybody here will be surprisingly surprised.


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## that1guy (Aug 26, 2010)

I think they probably should have done away w/ the XXD name. Then expectations would have been different. I just look at it as a Rebel upgrade, and I'm not dissapointed because it is a rebel upgrade (flipscreen, larger body, top LCD, better AF)...as I have said before, if I had a Rebel, that would be enough for me to pay a bit more. 

I do see where some of you waiting for a true 50D successor might be upset though.

Sorry for those of you in Europe, sounds like the pricing thing is rediculous. In the US it at least makes a bit more sense (pricing wise). $300 over T2i and $400 under 7D.

And could someone please post a link to the rumored Nikon D7000? I'm curious on the specs. Thanks


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## Thomas OMalley (Aug 26, 2010)

I am incredible disappointed. Actually my disappointment is huge.

I sold my EOS 20D in April 1Â½ ago to acquire a DSLR camera with high burst still picture and 
HD Video Autofocus features.

When you released the EOS 7D, I had clearly expected HD Video with Autofocus.
Ok ok, then Iâ€™ll wait for the â€œrealâ€ EOS 60D, because naturally it will have HD Video with Autofocus.

But now I experience that the Canon EOS 60D do not has HD Video with Autofocus ! !


And then the EOS 60D only have 5,3 fps. The 40D and 50D have 6,5 and 6,3 fps.

What did go wrong? 

We must go back to the EOS 20D to find 5 fps. 

Why go the wrong way?


Donâ€™t you read specs on your competitors products. 
Try and look at Panasonic, Sony and Nikon.


Dam Canon, you can do better than that !


Some of my friends are asking me for advice of what kind and brand of camera to buy.
And many of my colleagues are asking me for advice of what kind and brand of camera to buy.

Now I honestly rather will recommend a Nikon or Sony ! 


A friend told me that Nikon has gain ground on Canon.

If it is true, I now understand why.

Canon this will cost to Nilon


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## kawasakiguy37 (Aug 26, 2010)

As a Nikon guy, these comments really make me laugh. Number 1, WHY THE HELL ARE YOU ALL SO OBSESSED WITH AF IN VIDEO? Obviously this means you come from a photography background and do not understand that 99 percent of the time WITH VIDEO you want to use MF. Even a good AF would only be good for tracking fast moving subjects. Get better at follow focus, its one of the things that separates video from photography.....


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## gkreis (Aug 26, 2010)

Shompis said:


> Microadjustment is pretty useless and will do more harm than good. So I can understand why they removed it.


Then why is it in the higher priced models? Are you predicting it will be removed from all future Canon models?

Does anyone know if the focus tuning that Canon does when you send in a lens and body (say a 40D) is essentially the same thing as micro focus adjustment in the 7D, 50D, etc.? If it is essentially the same then it is NOT useless. I am amazed at what they tuning of my lenses with my 40D. It went from I didn't want to take pictures to me marveling at their sharpness.


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## ELK (Aug 26, 2010)

chrome_dude said:


> Shompis said:
> 
> 
> > Microadjustment is pretty useless and will do more harm than good. So I can understand why they removed it.
> ...



O dear! Why bother reading useless comments and moreover answering those? Of course microadjustment is useless because...hmmm... just because I have a tremendous need just to say something!!!!


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## funkboy (Aug 26, 2010)

somehow I think that the release of the 60D will sell a lot of 7Ds...


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## gkreis (Aug 26, 2010)

canonguy said:


> even the 50D has micro adjustment! this is why i want to upgrade my 40d and of course for a better LCD. but with these specs, im better off with my 40d and save a lot of money.
> 
> i dont know with canon but aren't you suppose to upgrade a model and not degrade it???
> magnesium to plastic
> ...



+++++1

These are my feelings exactly, though I was ready to live with plastic. But when I saw no microadjustment my heart sank. Sad... I could have lived with slower frame rate.

Maybe I will look for a 7D rebate... I don't know.... oiy..... I was so hoping this camera was going to be a no-brainer purchase...


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## unruled (Aug 26, 2010)

mivaho said:


> Hi,
> 
> Just to put in my thoughts on the matter, first post and all.
> 
> ...



About the presets, the 7d still has the [green=full auto] [P=program] mode and [CA=creative auto] modes. Trust me that those would suffice for her. I've never ventured into the presets as I find they don't do anything special whatsoever. Personally I'd say set it to full auto or program mode with auto iso, done. 

That said, the 50d is a great cam and maybe you can even get it a little cheaper now that the 60d will be coming out. I myself have the 40d and love it.
(ook nederlander btw )


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## c.d.embrey (Aug 26, 2010)

The main *problem* with the *60D* is the *name*. If they had called it a D600/T3i no-one would have complained.

People were expecting a continuation of the *xxD* series, but that is not what Canon delivered. By lowering *frame rate*, removing *Micro Adjust*, removing *PC socket*, switching from *CF cards* to SDHC cards, keeping the same *focus system as the 40D* and switching from a *Magnesium* body Canon has *removed* the *60D* from the *prosumer* ranks . Now it is just a consumer Rebel with a different name.

The *60D* is not a bad camera, but it is one that I have *NO INTEREST* in buying.

My 40D is a great camera, but, in hind sight, I'm really sorry that I didn't buy a D300.


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## unruled (Aug 26, 2010)

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canoneos60d/

some concrete info btw (yes, plastic over metal construction)



> With the 60D Canon has unashamedly moved the X0D range out of the 'semi pro' bracket and instead focused on the enthusiast photographer looking to upgrade from their Rebel. As a result, it's not the obvious continuation of the 30D - 40D - 50D pattern that its naming might suggest. Rather than being a direct upgrade replacement for the 50D, it's perhaps better understood as a 'Super Rebel.'



totally agreed.



> Plastic body shell (8% weight saving)



only 8%? wow. Give me back mg please. If it was 25% or more we would be talking.
I also just realised the joystick is replaced by that weird jog dial. Wow... yet another reason I don't like this :/


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## teko (Aug 26, 2010)

Also agree ^

This should've been named 600D instead. It's more appropriate. People will just think 60 > 50, but in reality, this seems like a small downgrade from 50D.

I heard some high grade plastic can be as good/better than metal, but not sure what kind of plastic they use for this. If it's the same quality as the low-end Rebels, then I won't like it :|


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## unexposure (Aug 26, 2010)

I don't really understand the loads of complaining about the pricing, comparing 60D to T2i and 7D.

At B&H Photo, 
7D Body sells for about 1500$
T2i Body sells for about 900$
60D Body sells for about 1100$

seems quite realistic pricing to me, considering the upgrades from model to model.


What I really do like, is the flip-LCD. The point is: If you never had one in extensive use, you won't miss it. But if you had, then there are so many ocassions you wished you had one.


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## carlspackler (Aug 26, 2010)

c.d.embrey said:


> The main *problem* with the *60D* is the *name*. If they had called it a D600/T3i no-one would have complained.
> 
> People were expecting a continuation of the *xxD* series, but that is not what Canon delivered. By lowering *frame rate*, removing *Micro Adjust*, removing *PC socket*, switching from *CF cards* to SDHC cards, keeping the same *focus system as the 40D* and switching from a *Magnesium* body Canon has *removed* the *60D* from the *prosumer* ranks . Now it is just a consumer Rebel with a different name.
> 
> ...



what he said.


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## traveller (Aug 26, 2010)

The people that have written about the specs of the 60d showing that Canon repositioning its model line-up are IMHO spot on. Camera launch prices are always ridiculous, they will drop to below the equivalent of what the 50d sold for (remembering to factor inflation and exchange rate differences into the equation). There are plenty of advantages of a 60d over a 550d when you compare the two. 

If you don't like the specs of the 60d, then you are probably a 7d customer without realising it: come on, if you're reading this site then photography is your hobby -treat yourself! The real comparison here should be between the 60d and the Nikon D90 (and Sony A5XX series). 

The danger seems to be that Canon are two years behind Nikon (D300 -> 7d; D90 -> 60d), rather than leading the market. The trouble I see brewing for Canon, is if Nikon do make the D7000 with the specs that have been rumoured elsewhere. But let's wait and see: can (or _will_) Nikon really make the D7000, with 7d/D300s like specs, for the price of a D90 (60d)? If they can Canon are truely up a certain creek without a certain implement, if they can't (or won't) then expect to see the howls on this forum repeated at Nikonrumors!


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## kubelik (Aug 26, 2010)

canon seems to be betting that photographers are more well off than ever before and over the next few years will be moving everything one tier up the market ladder.

I don't want to be a pessimist (although I think I share everyone's feelings about the downshifted 60D and the 25% to 50% price increase in next generation lenses, which is far from happy) so I'm trying to figure out where Canon is going with all this...

it seems like Canon is trying to shrink the "semi-pro" level as small as possible, and is moving away from a continuous-tiered system to a two-class structure: consumers vs. professionals, with a wide chasm in between. it seems the former rumor regarding this same setup for canon's lens lineup may not have been so far off the mark after all; the lens releases also seem to be morphing into either EF-S or L-series, with nothing in between. I thought it was unbelievable at the time, but after seeing a fisheye L, and a 70-300 variable aperture L, I'm really not so sure the EF-S/L dichotomy isn't the new hierarchy within Canon.


is surrendering the "middle class" section of the market good? is Canon hoping that by moving its whole professional lineup further upstream it can establish a Leica-like reputation and following? what do you think?


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## scw (Aug 26, 2010)

Just as Canon announces the new 60D DSLR Camera for release in September, FutureShop www.futureshop.ca/en-ca/home.aspx posts a front page ad online for a Canon 60D kit & boasts to be the only retailer in Canada to offer the 18-135mm kit. Now that is gonna frustrate as many people as when we found out the 60D body is now "polycarbonate" PLASTIC! not Magnesium.




Canon 60D by Sweet Cheeks Willie â„¢, on Flickr


scw


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## daizone88 (Aug 26, 2010)

I think Canon did intend this to compete with the Nikon D90 level series as the D90 is/was one of Nikon's best selling cameras if I remember correctly. This could be a big hit for people who are looking to move up from the point and shoot world. Because if Nikon does bump up the specs of the D90 then that would leave a pretty large gap in their lineup between the D3100 and the D90 replacement. However if Nikon does bump up the specs of the D90 to where the old Canon XXD line, placing it around the D300s level. I think it would be smart for nikon to release a sub $2000 full frame camera in the form of the D300s successor, especially with their new annoucement of the 28-300 for full frame (which is like the 18-200 super zoom for cropped). Why else would they announce such a lens targeted more towards the prosumer/consumer? I have a feeling it should be an interesting couple of next months until everything for this year is mapped out and everything is out on the table. I think Sony could be the dark horse in this race though with the announcement of their newest cameras, if they can work the quirks out of them in their next refresh. The AF on their video is pretty fast from the demonstration videos I've seen. What will ultimately determine I think is the pricing of this camera and the pricing of what Nikon will have to offer by the end of this year too.


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## mivaho (Aug 26, 2010)

unruled said:


> About the presets, the 7d still has the [green=full auto] [P=program] mode and [CA=creative auto] modes. Trust me that those would suffice for her. I've never ventured into the presets as I find they don't do anything special whatsoever. Personally I'd say set it to full auto or program mode with auto iso, done.
> 
> That said, the 50d is a great cam and maybe you can even get it a little cheaper now that the 60d will be coming out. I myself have the 40d and love it.
> (ook nederlander btw )



Hi unruled,

Yeah I agree with the mentioned presets on the 7D, but the other consideration was the price  Not needing video (they have special hardware for that these days  ) and the 50D being half the price of what the 60D will do in September it was a no brainer since seeing the feature list on the 60D today.

Just ordered it an hour ago at konijnenberg should be on its way tomorrow 

Looking at the comparing list at dpreview I see no improvements I need on the 60D that makes up for double the euro's

Advised a co-worker today to do the same 

They should have made it a 600D

SeeYa,

Michel


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## gkreis (Aug 26, 2010)

ELK said:


> chrome_dude said:
> 
> 
> > Shompis said:
> ...



This review really dinged Canon for the lack of Microadjustment. I hope these kinds of points in reviews will cause Canon to consider a firmware update to add it...

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/E60D/E60DA.HTM


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## Mark D5 TEAM II (Aug 26, 2010)

It seems like many are getting their panties up in a bunch over this new release. ;D From a purely marketing and product differentiation viewpoint, the 60D specs are actually spot-on. Remember that the previous xxDs all had an MSRP (at time of release) of $1300-$1500. The Rebels were around $800-$900. The 60D has an MSRP of $1100. The 7D was $1700 when it was launched. So the specs are of course between the Rebels and the 7D. It's up to the buyer if there is any 60D feature or set of features that is worth the extra $200 from the Rebel, or if he feels there are some 7D features that aren't worth the extra $600 for his use.

Personally I'm not interested in the xxD line anymore since Canon has decided to reposition it lower to compete more directly with the Nikon Dxx line. Also, those rumored D95/D7000 specs look too good to be true, like a Noink fanboi's wet dream. That spec is stupid since the D300s is a current model, no one would buy that more expensive model if it gets trumped by a camera $700 less (assuming the Dxx line stays at $1100 like the 60D). Heck, they couldn't even get their fantasy specs consistent. For example: the most ardent Noink fanboi on DPR, pandalee, keeps repeating that the D90 successor would have 17-pt. AF, not the 39 as mentioned by some here.


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## Mark D5 TEAM II (Aug 26, 2010)

My personal 60D dealbreakers are: no AF Microadjust, shift to SD cards, keeping the 40D/50D 9-pt. AF sensor, single-axis electronic level, and single Speedlite commander. The first one and the latter two seem like mere deliberate crippling, it's not as if Canon would save any money by doing that. But again, they designed the 60D to a certain price point, and they are successful in that. Seems like a lot of the whining is based on the wish to have a 7D for $600 less . That is as silly as expecting the D95/D7000 to be a better D300s for $700 less.


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## J (Aug 26, 2010)

Mark D5 TEAM II said:


> My personal 60D dealbreakers are: no AF Microadjust, shift to SD cards, keeping the 40D/50D 9-pt. AF sensor, single-axis electronic level, and single Speedlite commander. The first one and the latter two seem like mere deliberate crippling, it's not as if Canon would save any money by doing that.



This hits home with me. AF microadjust doesn't cost them any physical parts. The crippled commander is especially puzzling as it means Canon deliberately deviated from their existing designs to make it. But not only that, but wouldn't supporting more Speedlites encourage more Speedlite buying? You'd think so, right?


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## Canon 14-24 (Aug 27, 2010)

J said:


> Mark D5 TEAM II said:
> 
> 
> > My personal 60D dealbreakers are: no AF Microadjust, shift to SD cards, keeping the 40D/50D 9-pt. AF sensor, single-axis electronic level, and single Speedlite commander. The first one and the latter two seem like mere deliberate crippling, it's not as if Canon would save any money by doing that.
> ...



Going by the assumption enthusiasts in the Rebel/xxD market have no need for it OR by the assumption that it would take away sales from the 7d and to set the bar between both camera models.

In other thinking I would suppose spec-wise this would be the T3i like others mentioned and the 7d a 60d, but then again doing so wouldn't stop the complaining of people saying it's out of their price ranges.


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## Shompis (Aug 27, 2010)

chrome_dude said:


> Shompis said:
> 
> 
> > Microadjustment is pretty useless and will do more harm than good. So I can understand why they removed it.
> ...



Not sure if you are serious. But when you micro adjust, you adjust for one fixed set of focal length, distance to the subject and aperture. Essentially it is for emergency cases when you can't focus properly and you need to make that shot no matter what. But it still has to be professionaly calibrated afterwards. At a service center, they never micro AF adjust. For a zoom lens for example, they adjust 8 control points. A properly calibrated lens does not need any micro AF adjustment, period. 

So it will probably be left in the pro models (see emergency cases where there is no service center near you and you need to make the shot now, not tomorrow), but in consumer products such as XX series? No.


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## canonguy (Aug 27, 2010)

The real reason for this release:

"Canon was so jealous of the Nikon D90 sales that they wanted their own crap camera."

"Why not lets make a camera exactly like the D90 then lets add a swivel lcd and embed post processing filter tools... maybe they will sell more than the D90."


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## J (Aug 27, 2010)

Naturally, Canon can spec their cameras however they want. They'll just get an upgrade sale every 6+ years instead of every 3 from the installed base. If that's part of their plan, then fine. But the SLR and SLR-like market is already pretty mature, so how much new blood does Canon seriously think they can attract? And this _does_ target newer buyers, in some weird way that seems to ignore Sony and m4/3. It offers fairly little to their existing customers.

It's not like I'm being melodramatic and claiming that I'm jumping brands. I'm not. Bodies come and go. I'd say every manufacturer intentionally cripples their products in some way, but it's not too often that a company shoves it in your face.


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## koi (Aug 27, 2010)

I'm glad I bought the 7d instead of waiting for the 60d. I would have liked an articulating screen but the downsides of the 60d outweigh the good.


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## ELK (Aug 27, 2010)

canonguy said:


> The real reason for this release:
> 
> "Canon was so jealous of the Nikon D90 sales that they wanted their own crap camera."
> 
> "Why not lets make a camera exactly like the D90 then lets add a swivel lcd and embed post processing filter tools... maybe they will sell more than the D90."



Absolutely! But Canon is 2 years behind with that idea. Now the new D95/D7000 will be new Nikon bestseller with incomparably better features. Let me bet... Canon will release it's 70D version 2 years later!


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## unexposure (Aug 27, 2010)

My opinion is, that the 60D just exactly fits the needs of any small-press-photographer/photojournalist in newspapers oder maybe blogs.

Reasons:
- To fill half a newspaper-site with one photo, it has to measure about 2000x1500 pixel. common newspaper printing is done in 130 to 180 dpi. But having 18MP to work with gives you a lot more freedom in taking the shots. Shoot at 6400ISO, getting heavy denoise filter on it in postprocessing, resharpen, scale down to what your current need is, resharpen again. Result: Picture will be fine for release.
- Articulating display is great to have. There are so many times where you just can't step on your ladder (if you carry one around with you) to take a picture. Another example is to do unusual perspectives where architecture is the barrier to overcome - either you take a special lens for that (maybe t/s) or you just cannot do it without articulating/flip-screen. For those reasons I allways take my old finepix9600 in bag for situations that simply can't be handled that good with a 50d.
- Eye-Fi is pretty cool stuff. When the production needs the pics as fast as possible, my workflow is: taking the pictures, pluggin in the cable to connect to a netbook, send em via umts. Eye-Fi enables you practically realtime-stream the pics to your note-/netbook, which may save some time. Other thing is, espacially in studio-situations, you get rid of the annoying cable when using your computer to display the results instead of the tiny camera-display, what really makes sense to me. Only thing, thats a little pity here, is that they could have made the wireless option a direct part of the cam instead of just making it ready for wireless-usage.
- the wireless flash trigger is more a "nice to have". beeing able to do unchained lighting with "on board"-tools is pretty fine i think. but would even be better being able to controll more than one speedlite.
- last but not least, I really appreciate the wheight-and sizereduction compared with 50d/70d which makes it for me easier to handle (i've got no super-sized hands) an less to carry. i don't really miss the mg-body either. it's just look and feel to me - i really can go without.


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## drummstikk (Aug 27, 2010)

ecking said:


> I don't know what you guys or surprised about. That a less expensive product than the 7D isn't way better than the 7D?



Truth spoken here.

I come to eat my words because I was one who said "There will be no 60D." However, if I had only rephrased to say, "There will not be the 60D that everyone on this forum is expecting," the posts here seem to acknowledge I was right.

This camera has been the target of unrealistic expectations from day one. "I want the 7D but I only want it to cost $999.00" (Cue the crying baby.) Of course, this is mostly Canon's fault, because the 50D was underpriced by at least $200.00 and they had fostered the expectation of a better camera for 100 bucks less every year and a half since the 20D.

Dumb marketing by Canon led to dumb expectations on the part of the customers. Kinda sad all around. Literally the most interesting annoucement of the day for me was the Final Cut video plug-in. I could get excited that the new revs of the 300mm 2.8 and 400mm 2.8 might drive down prices on used copies of the current models, but I assume Canon will continue their recent practice of jacking up the prices on the new versions, which will prop up used prices at the same time.

70-300 4.0/5.6? What were they thinking? Have they seriously put the zoom ring out in front of the focus ring? Hey, Canon! If you have to design lenses, don't drink. If you have to drink, don't design lenses.

Fisheye zoom? Sounds kind of ridiculous, but I'll reserve judgment until I see what people post from that lens on Flikr.


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## ELK (Aug 27, 2010)

Some interesting details. As far as I know 1D Mark III-IV, 5D mark II, 7D and 50D have AF microadjustment. Interestingly that detail was mentioned in press releases of 1D Mark III , 5D mark II and 50D only.
I contacted Canon USA and asked if there is a chance that Canon will implement AF microadjustment in production model. Here's their response:

"There is currently no information regarding whether the 60D will have AF
microadjustment. The pre-production version does not, but we do not
know if the production model will. The camera was just announced today,
so there is very limited information. We will have more information in
a few weeks."

Who knows how to contact Canon CEO?


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## Tusker (Aug 27, 2010)

Literally the most interesting annoucement of the day for me was the Final Cut video plug-in. 

Excuse me for my ignorance but what is video plug in? and how does that effect?

Thanks for your help.


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## c.d.embrey (Aug 27, 2010)

drummstikk said:


> ecking said:
> 
> 
> > I don't know what you guys or surprised about. That a less expensive product than the 7D isn't way better than the 7D?
> ...



What *I was expecting* was an up-graded *EOS 50D* with an *18mp* sensor and *video* selling for *$1,300.00* at the release. And I would have ordered that 18mp w/video 50D for $1,300.00 yesterday. But Canon released a Rebel in an xxD body, so I didn't order a 60D. 

So why don't I just buy a 7D? Because it is *NOT what I want or need*, if it was I'd have ordered it the day it was released. I'm not a fanboy who's jonesing for a new Canon.


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## gkreis (Aug 27, 2010)

ELK said:


> Some interesting details. As far as I know 1D Mark III-IV, 5D mark II, 7D and 50D have AF microadjustment. Interestingly that detail was mentioned in press releases of 1D Mark III , 5D mark II and 50D only.
> I contacted Canon USA and asked if there is a chance that Canon will implement AF microadjustment in production model. Here's their response:
> 
> "There is currently no information regarding whether the 60D will have AF
> ...



I hope you are right, but do you think they would add it when the website details don't show it? I know they don't say it doesn't have it. But I guess I don't know if they have ever done that between the news released and before the camera is actually sold?

Interesting.....


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## scw (Aug 27, 2010)

c.d.embrey said:


> drummstikk said:
> 
> 
> > ecking said:
> ...




I agree 100% with c.d.embrey, my thoughts exactly!


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## gkreis (Aug 27, 2010)

Shompis said:


> chrome_dude said:
> 
> 
> > Shompis said:
> ...



I am serious. I am ignorant of what goes in the service center when they calibrate the lens with the camera and I haven't found anything that describes it.

I know this. My 40D and lenses were tack sharp after Canon calibrated them. Then my 40D died. They replaced the electronics and the camera went right back to the same poor focus performance. So what they did earlier seems to have been stored in the electronics. Also, the Canon rep told me they do not adjust lenses themselves as I expressed concern it might affect it with another body. So I sent the 40D back with three lenses (the 100mm Macro was spot on) and the magic was restored.

So, if they don't actually do anything to the lens, are they doing some sort of highly sophisticated form of micro-adjustment? Why did my settings all disappear when the electronics board was replaced?

I'd love someone to point me to some info on the web that could explain when the center does when they calibrate the body with the lenses.

Thanks.

P.S.
Some folks say that micro-adjustment only affects the focal length you adjust and that it is a waste of time. Others have sworn by the results. So who is right?


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## ELK (Aug 27, 2010)

scw said:


> c.d.embrey said:
> 
> 
> > drummstikk said:
> ...



Please excuse my curiosity, but I can't understand what you don't like in $1500 7D so much in that you were ready to pay $1300 for 60D on day one???


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## drummstikk (Aug 27, 2010)

c.d.embrey said:


> What *I was expecting* was an up-graded *EOS 50D* with an *18mp* sensor and *video* selling for *$1,300.00* at the release.



OK, I'm with you so far. . .



c.d.embrey said:


> So why don't I just buy a 7D? Because it is *NOT what I want or need*.



But. . . but. . . the 7D _*IS*_ an "upgraded 50D with an 18mp sensor and video." You're chomping at the bit to spend $1300.00, but you absolutely can't come up with that last $235.00 for a 7D (current B&H price is $1535.00)?

I don't see how your mythical "upgraded 50D" has any real differentiation from the 7D. Canon is a business, and we who work (or "play") with their cameras and lenses need them to stay healthy as a business. For months people have been dreaming of a camera pretty much identical to 7D except for the price tag. That's just not realistic.

If you ask me, the 60D looks like a pretty good value for $1099.00. It pretty evenly splits the gap in features AND price between T2i and 7D, which makes perfect sense in the ongoing development of the Canon line. The biggest problem (and here I return to my earlier point about stupid marketing on Canon's part) is that this camera is NOT the next logical progression in the xxD line. It's a departure in design and *it's name should have reflected that*.

Everybody is angry because it's called "60D" but it's not designed like the next camera in line after the 50D should be. That anger is understandable. If Canon had given the camera a different name, we'd all be looking at it as a new camera in a new niche. But no, Canon named it like a fine Italian entree, but it actually looks more like a frozen pizza. No wonder people are ticked off.


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## backshot_especiale (Aug 28, 2010)

it's quite obvious what canon marketing have come up with as a strategy, when an awful lot of people (myself included) were saying this time last year that the new 7d was the new 60d, so they release a disappointment camera with the aim not to sell it but to force an upsale, that's basic capitalism, not saying it is the right way to run things but what do you all expect? 

They intend for potential buyers and upgraders to go to 7d or 5dii (whilst constraining supply to keep prices buoyant) I'd have rather seen canon move this same small sensor to a mirrorless camera system, rangefinder style body, small like the sensor, with the focus on manual shooting, prime lenses and flexibility. As it currently stands micro 4 3rds is looking quite good as a balance between sensor size and handling.

The G12 would have been great if it was more like the gf1. 
The 60d on product history should have been a 12-18 megapixel full frame sensor in the same body, that would have been a bold, wise and creative move by canon, they pussied out, they had a massive market but have been too complacent.


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## Grendel (Aug 28, 2010)

*Re: 60D does remote Infrared*



dilbert said:


> Hmmm, did anyone else notice that Canon have added back infra-red remote control activation to the 60D?


Not too surprising, the 450D, 500D, and 550D (plus 7D & 5DII) all have it..


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## c.d.embrey (Aug 28, 2010)

dilbert said:


> drummstikk said:
> 
> 
> > c.d.embrey said:
> ...



*Sorry guys, but you don't know me or what I do*. And I do have the money to buy a 1Ds III so the extra $235.00 has nothing to do with it.

I use *CENTER POINT* focus *only*, so I don't need the 7Ds improved focus. *I shoot in sunny SoCal, mainly in a studio*, so I don't need the 7Ds weather proofing. For what I do I don't need 18MP or video, but that is what Canon wants to sell so I'm stuck with it. 

BTW if the D3100 video focus was important to me I would not hesitate to buy a D3100. I sure wouldn't wait for Canon to implement it in the 70D. Cameras are just tools, always use the right tool for the job. And sometime the best tool is a Canon at at other times it's a Nikon, and occasionally a Sinar 4X5.


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## hoktar (Aug 28, 2010)

Yea, that sounds real cool and all but you do know what you need lenses to use a camera?.....


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## channs (Aug 28, 2010)

60D samples photos look great at both low ISO and high ISO. 
http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos60d/

Noise does seem to be much less than 50D. 
Looks like a winner to me if Nikon cannot match the video quality. 
The target customers seem to be those who want better build than lower range canon SLRs like XTi...T2i and want to carry only one camera for photo and video. Missing magnesium and weather sealing does not seem to be an issue for this target group...they would take care of the cameras with the cameras covered with plastic bags..  or pop out a point and shoot covered in plastic bag.
So there should be many buyers for this camera.

It can be really competitive if Canon can improve their kit lens like Nikon.


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## unfocused (Aug 28, 2010)

> This is the Internet. Even if Canon had delivered exactly what people are currently saying they want, they would have come up with some other excuse to not buy...



Well said. 

Some of this discussion makes me want to scream. Cameras are a mass-produced product. Features have to balance out with demand. Companies weigh the incremental cost of adding a new feature against the expected increase in demand for that feature. There is no grand conspiracy to deny anyone anything or to purposely make a product less desirable. 

If you want a camera that has ONLY the features you need, then contract with Canon, Nikon or any other company and have them custom build the camera for you. It will probably cost you a hundred grand or more, but hey, at least you won't be paying for features you don't need, right?

Of course my camera has features on it that I don't use. So does my car. So does Photoshop. So does my iPhone. So does my TV. What doesn't?


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## CameraAddict (Aug 28, 2010)

unfocused said:


> If you want a camera that has ONLY the features you need, then contract with Canon, Nikon or any other company and have them custom build the camera for you. It will probably cost you a hundred grand or more, but hey, at least you won't be paying for features you don't need, right?



I would say you're taking things a little bit too extreme to prove your "point". xxD users who are unhappy with this line have valid points. Canon has basically ended the xxD line without saying so. They have stopped providing support to a whole segment of their customers. I don't think it's at all disproportionate to feel a little bit insulted by this. 

But your response to it, now THAT is disproportionate. Because we wanted to be able to upgrade our cameras to slightly better at the same price point, we're asking too much? (computers, which DSLRs are, come down in price, they don't go up.) To expect Canon not to take away the features we've come to know and need, we're asking them to build us our very own camera? I think not, but that's just my own opinion.


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## ELK (Aug 28, 2010)

> ... Canon has basically ended the xxD line without saying so. They have stopped providing support to a whole segment of their customers. I don't think it's at all disproportionate to feel a little bit insulted by this.
> 
> .... Because we wanted to be able to upgrade our cameras to slightly better at the same price point, we're asking too much?



Would you upgrade to 60 if it was same as now, except with metal body, CF card and AF microadjustment?


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## unfocused (Aug 28, 2010)

> I would say you're taking things a little bit too extreme to prove your "point". xxD users who are unhappy with this line have valid points. Canon has basically ended the xxD line without saying so.



CameraAddict, I apologize if you thought my comments were aimed at *everyone* who was disappointed in the 60D. I understand that many people were expecting something different and I didn't mean to be critical of those with a reasonable level of disappointment. (Although in fairness, I think you'd have to admit that it wasn't a total surprise if you follow this forum.)

My frustration was with what I see as some pretty unrealistic and unfair criticisms by a handful of people. Since I don't particularly want to start a personal internet war, I won't go into specifics. I would just suggest that if you read over some of the comments that have been made over the past several weeks regarding the anticipated and now announced 60D, I think any reasonable person would admit that there were a lot of unrealistic expectations (actually, demands might be a more accurate description.)

I am not in the market for a new camera at this point, so I don't feel the personal disappointment that some apparently do. All I was really trying to do was remind people that Canon is a business and they make decisions based on business principles. You have a right to be disappointed is you feel a favorite brand has gone in a direction contrary to what you would like. But, you might want to ask yourself why they felt compelled to go in the direction they did. The simple answer is almost always that they are following the marketplace and what you or I think the market demands, may not actually be what the millions of consumers that Canon needs to survive are demanding.


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## mthrope (Aug 28, 2010)

A hearty AMEN to the points expressed by "unfocused". Frankly, the whiners on this forum are reminiscent of a bunch of kindergartners complaining about the selection of toys they have to choose from. Mature exchanges of divergent points of view make for interesting forum posts. The relentless bitching and moaning about a piece of hardware on this forum suggest either too much or too little in the way of drugs are being consumed.


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## unexposure (Aug 28, 2010)

ELK said:


> > ... Canon has basically ended the xxD line without saying so. They have stopped providing support to a whole segment of their customers. I don't think it's at all disproportionate to feel a little bit insulted by this.
> >
> > .... Because we wanted to be able to upgrade our cameras to slightly better at the same price point, we're asking too much?
> 
> ...


That's a good point. 
Could just anyone explain, why cf is preferred about sd? afaik has cf a lot less (as defined in the standard) than sd and an very similar speed and capacity at an often enough higher price (in germany).
The next thing I wonder about: Why exactly metal-body? If you drop your cam, your least problem in regular is a scratch in the body. rather lens or bajonett might brake - and here it don't matters what material the body is made of.


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## Rocky (Aug 29, 2010)

ELK said:


> > ... Canon has basically ended the xxD line without saying so. They have stopped providing support to a whole segment of their customers. I don't think it's at all disproportionate to feel a little bit insulted by this.
> >
> > .... Because we wanted to be able to upgrade our cameras to slightly better at the same price point, we're asking too much?
> 
> ...



I would. Even if it is proven that the camera body is solid with good plastic, I would still buy it. My 20D shutter release switch is the first thing to fail. So Mg body does not guarantee it will outlast the rest of the body part.


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## Rocky (Aug 29, 2010)

If canon call the 60D by any other name rather than 60D (X0D), then most of us will be happy except wanting a real 60D.The only thing I will like to see on the 60D is the addition of the microadjustment. I just cannot see why some people make a big deal on the switch to SD from AF. SD is smaller lighter, sometimes even cheaper than the CF. As for plastic body. It is really depends on the design and the material. I know the Rebel body does not give me a solid feel. But every Nikon DSLR feels solid in my hand. And Nikon have been making plastic DSLR for a long time and nobody has really complain about them. So let us email Canon and urge them to add the microadjustment on 60D. From a price point, another $200 to$300 get you s super rebel (60D), with flip screen, penta prism, a few high end feature ( except the microadjustment) from the 7D and a much better ergonomic body,. It sound like a reasonable deal to me.


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## gkreis (Aug 29, 2010)

channs said:


> 60D samples photos look great at both low ISO and high ISO.
> http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos60d/
> 
> Noise does seem to be much less than 50D.
> ...



I noticed the shots were all ISO 100 except for the 3200. I'd like for them to show some 800 and 1600 shots as well. The 3200 was pretty noisy and soft and that was jpg, which presumably had some noise reduction applied in the camera.

I like to see the RAW shots so we can see what we are up against for editing. Showing jpgs all the time is of no value to me, I don't shoot it. I will say that the jpgs are generally very well processed by the camera, but the control you lose is not worth the convenience.

I will say the video looks great. Any noisy is smeared by the movement, so it is not noticeable. That medium seems to be more forgiving. While the video looks great, it is also a bit of wishful thinking for a consumer. It took of work to get those results. But it was neat how they showed the lenses used for each segment of the video.

I am waiting to see what makes it into the final firmware and how the reviews turn up (some post RAW shots, but I'll also need to my RAW processor updated for it, so... another delay for the decision.)

I bet Canon sells a lot of the 60Ds if for no other reason than the articulated screen.


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## c.d.embrey (Aug 29, 2010)

unexposure said:


> That's a good point.
> Could just anyone explain, why cf is preferred about sd? afaik has cf a lot less (as defined in the standard) than sd and an very similar speed and capacity at an often enough higher price (in germany).
> The next thing I wonder about: Why exactly metal-body? If you drop your cam, your least problem in regular is a scratch in the body. rather lens or bajonett might brake - and here it don't matters what material the body is made of.



The only person I can speak for is myself, I really don't why other dislike the switch from CF to SD.

The reason I don't like the switch to SD is that no professional camera uses SD cards. My 40D uses CF cards, the 1Ds II uses CF cards, the Pro Nikons (D300s, D3s and D3x) use CF cards, Hasselblad use CF cards, Phase One uses CF cards, Leaf Digital Backs use CF cards and Sinar Digital Backs us CF cards. I own a bunch of SanDisk Extreme iV CF cards that fit what I own and also any other professional camera I rent. I don't buy my memory cards from discounters and really don't care about cheap off brand SD cards.

I don't own a P&S camera or anything else that uses SD cards. Why would I want to buy a camera that uses SD cards. 

You could tell this was coming when the flagship Canon 1Ds III had a CF Card Type I and II, and SD/SDHC Memory Cards (1 slot each), while Nikon D3 has two CF slots.

Your milage probably does vary.


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## DVSdan (Aug 29, 2010)

c.d.embrey said:


> The only person I can speak for is myself, I really don't why other *like* the switch from CF to SD.



Fixed it for ya


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## CameraAddict (Aug 29, 2010)

dilbert said:


> You've arrived at your conclusion the wrong way. If you think of the 60D as being something for xxxD and compact camera owners to upgrade to, then it makes sense to support their cards.
> 
> I think we all need to stop thinking of the 60D as a 50D upgrade and think of it as the next step up for cheaper cameras. Upgrading from or just replacing a 50D means purchasing a 7D, not a 60D.



Canon could have made that "thought process" and the "conclusion" much easier by admitting they've dumped the 60D line. 50D users were expecting an upgrade to their camera, not to the Rebel. That wasn't a crazy expectation was it? If Canon had renamed the camera, announced the end of the 50D line, that would be it. I only hope that this new 60D direction doesn't devalue our cameras further if we ever try and sell them. 

I've had 2 SD cards fail on me. I've also had one lose its write protect tab so it's bricked. SD cards aren't very durable. I have compact flash that I've had literally since the year 2000 and it's still going strong...


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## c.d.embrey (Aug 29, 2010)

dilbert said:


> You've arrived at your conclusion the wrong way. If you think of the 60D as being something for xxxD and compact camera owners to upgrade to, then it makes sense to support their cards.



Canon reached the *wrong conclusion* when they called the camera a 60D. All they have done is c*onfuse and enrage* owners of xxD cameras. Really bad marketing!



> I think we all need to stop thinking of the 60D as a 50D upgrade and think of it as the next step up for cheaper cameras. Upgrading from or just replacing a 50D means purchasing a 7D, not a 60D.



Or maybe switching brands. Like upgrading to a Nikon or Sony camera. These two companies seem to be moving faster up the technology ladder than Canon.



> Sooner or later CF cards will no longer be supported in high end digital cameras as they all move to support CFast:
> http://www.compactflash.org/080414_evolution_of_the_compactflash_interface.pdf
> 
> ... so don't get too attached to those CF cards.



CF isn't dead yet, check-out the press release from CFA on the new CF5.0 spec. http://www.compactflash.org/pr/100222cf5prs.pdf


----------



## jakkul (Aug 29, 2010)

Sorry to interrupt you, but I need to let of steam...

At first when I saw what I was waiting for to replace my 350d, I wanted to kill myself for the time I wasted looking at CR every day for the past 2 months. 

But looking back, it's not that bad. I can see why canon did that - 60d is a 550d-PLUS not 7d-MINUS. When you'd go to a supermarket and look at the cameras there, it's overloaded with Sony SLRs - I can't even count the models. If you'd see canons, you'd get the 1000d, 550d and 50d somewhere behind glass as a model only for PROs. The 60d is more like "I'm not that sophisticated", "give me additional $" and stuff and is a great tool for sales people to push it. 50d was not like that. So someone wanting just a photo camera can choose from 3 models not 2. Imho canon is trying to fight Sony with product range. If this is their marketing strategy, we'd see more bodies within price range between 1000d and 550d within this year.

I see that some of you are in rage because you wanted to upgrade your XXD's to 60D. Well, Canon wants to have your $ in the 7d. 60d is for supermarket shoppers that purchase stuff on impulse and not for people playing around with their cameras. I think that Sony's SLR range is also targeted at them. Most of SLR buyers do not dig around in the internet before they choose one thing over another - they want a slr, they go to a shop and get advice from salespeople. 

I like the size of it - it's bigger than 350d, but smaller than 50d/7d. So I guess it's about the same as nikon d90 . I don't mind plastic body, lack of insulation and stuff. I have the 350d for about 5 years and it did not die after shooting about 40k shots.

I don't think I'll buy that for one reason - you have to go deep into menus to change WB. You cannot press a button and turn a dial like in 50d/7d. I see why is that - most people always use automatic WB, and canon did their research to find that out. Same thing happens with all sony SLRs. You need to dig up in menus to tweek stuff - only the old A700 and FF models do it properly.

So maybe canon is going the same way: XD models for people that are interested in photography and want to control the picture and the rest are to be sold in supermarkets.

If the successor of nikon d90 will be just a better d90 not a different camera, I'm ready to switch and sell my canon lenses and flash.

All in all it does not matter. You can make as great photos with a 550d, 60d, 7d or an old film canon slr.

PS. Did anyone have had it in your hands already? I've read on dpreview, that using custom functions you actually can link WB setting to the SET button. Is that true? How does it work?

PS2. I'm going to IBC next week. Canon always has their stand there with the TV studio cameras they make. I'll look for the 60d to play with it. They always have some photo equipment around.


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## ronderick (Aug 30, 2010)

Canon held a press conference in Japan for their new products on August 26.

Here's something from the press conference: 
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/img/dcw/docs/389/589/html/004.jpg.html

Full article at dc.watch:
http://dc.watch.impress.co.jp/docs/news/20100827_389589.html

Basically, Canon's rep noted that the 60D is aimed at people who belongs to the upper-end of the entry market and the lower end of the prosumer market. It is an attempt at stimulating the fastest growing section of their sales, especially those who are thinking seriously about making photography as their hobby.


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## ELK (Aug 30, 2010)

jakkul said:


> PS. Did anyone have had it in your hands already? I've read on dpreview, that using custom functions you actually can link WB setting to the SET button. Is that true? How does it work?



I didn't play with 60D but the approach for assigning a feature to SET button is always the same - from Customs features (for 60D it's C.Fn.IV-2) choose white balance. That's all. Each time when in shooting mode you press SET and change WB.


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## gkreis (Aug 30, 2010)

CameraAddict said:


> I've had 2 SD cards fail on me. I've also had one lose its write protect tab so it's bricked. SD cards aren't very durable. I have compact flash that I've had literally since the year 2000 and it's still going strong...



+1 I had an SD card split apart and the write protect tab fell out.

Never had a CF fail. They are much stronger physically.


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## Jon Gilchrist (Aug 30, 2010)

c.d.embrey said:


> CF isn't dead yet, check-out the press release from CFA on the new CF5.0 spec. http://www.compactflash.org/pr/100222cf5prs.pdf



It may not be dead, but the CF5.0 ("CFast") will require completely new cards, cameras and readers. They are not interchangeable. The switch to CF5.0 is no different from the switch to SD from the standpoint of new equipment requirements.


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## joey12345 (Aug 30, 2010)

*Whiny cry babies*

If you don't like the new camera don't buy it. Jeez people, get a life. There are plenty of other cameras to choose from if you have some problem with plastic, or lack of this or that. Quit whining and complaining.


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## c.d.embrey (Aug 31, 2010)

dilbert said:


> What do I need a camera to do? Focus a lens, open its shutter and capture light.



I started shooting with a Nikon F back in the day when it was a current model. And I've been using an incident meter since the 1970s. I don't need a stinkin' histogram or a screen for chimping. But most people do, so I don't complain.



> I too used to worry about the features of Canon vs Nikon but then I realised what I wanted the camera to do and that the easier it made it for me to do the basics, the easier it was for me. Canon might not have had (or still not have) as many features, but if pro's are willing to pay $10k+ for cameras that do movements and three times that just for a back but don't have all of these fancy features like 51 AF points, etc, then how important are "features"?



I've shot medium format starting in the late 1960s. I have a 4x5 Toyo technical camera that doesn't have even one focusing point, but I have no trouble focusing it using a loupe.

But I'm sure most spots shooter wouldn't like to go back to one focusing point. BTW in case you haven't noticed some of the people that shoot team sports use 40D/50D. Not everyone has a 1D or D3. 



> Sooner or later CF cards will no longer be supported in high end digital cameras as they all move to support CFast:
> http://www.compactflash.org/080414_evolution_of_the_compactflash_interface.pdf
> 
> ... so don't get too attached to those CF cards.



Phase One and Hasselblad have both released Medium Format Digital Cameras this year that use CF cards. They may know more about high end cameras than you do.

Have a nice day.


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## awinphoto (Aug 31, 2010)

Golly, this kinda takes back to the days where the rule of thumb was to buy lenses 2x the cost of the camera because "it was the lens that created the image and the body was a universal capture device". That was also when you were limited on film or now thought as the sensor and now cameras have turned into computers with a lens mount attached... People got essentially what they always complained about with this series and to be honest 10d-20d-40d aren't really "upgrades" as much as it's just advancing technology... Upgrades in canon's minds and Nikons and every other manufacturer would be from a rebel to a 50d (or 60d) then 7d or 5d then 1d... That's the crutch of the customer upgrades they want, that's what they seek... Once you move up so far it gets harder to jump ship when you've invested so much... That's why they have cps (canon professional services). To keep the upgraders and the true professional customer base happy... Because that's where their profits come from.


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## Thomas OMalley (Aug 31, 2010)

I am very disappointed over Canon. Why must they lie behind Nikon (always).
I had expected HD Video with Autofocus! 
And I have situations where I need video with at nice piece of glass in front. 
Why make af Tilt and swivel screen, when you don't have a decent Live View and don't have OLED 1MP screen (canâ€™t se af thing I sunshine with LCD)?
Now the 60D is a plastic toy camera, I must wait for the next 7D.
Here is a list over what the 7D mrk II should be like :

Must have
More sensitive CMOS not more pixels (better ISO)
ISO 50 â€“ 25600
DIGIC 5 (perhaps two of them)
HD Video mode with 30fps with Live Autofocus
A decent Live View with perfect autofocus
Continuous shooting 9 fps
Water resistant (Weather sealing) still
Magnesium body still

Nice to have
A focusing screen departed in to 9 squares (Rules of Thirds) (at least as sparepart!!)
More than 9 AF points
Both SD and CF cards (rather than smaller and/or lighter camera)
Wireless File Transfer


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## Stuart (Aug 31, 2010)

awinphoto said:


> Golly, this kinda takes back to the days where the rule of thumb was to buy lenses 2x the cost of the camera because "it was the lens that created the image and the body was a universal capture device". That was also when you were limited on film or now thought as the sensor and now cameras have turned into computers with a lens mount attached... People got essentially what they always complained about with this series and to be honest 10d-20d-40d aren't really "upgrades" as much as it's just advancing technology... Upgrades in canon's minds and Nikons and every other manufacturer would be from a rebel to a 50d (or 60d) then 7d or 5d then 1d... That's the crutch of the customer upgrades they want, that's what they seek... Once you move up so far it gets harder to jump ship when you've invested so much... That's why they have cps (canon professional services). To keep the upgraders and the true professional customer base happy... Because that's where their profits come from.


Yep, i was all but ready to jump from my rebel 400D to the 60D, but whilst its a spec jump its nothing more than the 3rd re-packaging of the 7D/550D - so i'm now not an upgrader. But am very interested in the reviews on the Sony α55 with 10fps & full time AF movie


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## unexposure (Aug 31, 2010)

dilbert said:


> The theoretical maximum for CF is 133MB/s.
> 
> The first CFast devices made by Pretec were 160MB/s.
> 
> The theoretical maximum for CFast is 375MB/s.


Definded Spec for SDHC/SDXC is 106MB/s max which is pretty compareable to actual CF. The difference is: SDHC/XC are pretty wide spread and loads of notebooks/netbooks that were build in the last year already have readers for those.

But the Point for 60D having SD instead of CF is Eye-Fi. This feature is, at a closer look, the most impressive step canon took. They kill the need of buying an expensive wft and indirectly include Geotagging by just giving the User access to use Eye-Fi-Cards. So you can choose to buy a wft-grip for about 500$ or buy a battery-grip for 200$+150$ for an eye-fi pro.
In my opinion this gives 60D a (or even two) feature(s), 7D is missing: Cheapo-wft and Memorycard and Battery-Grip together for about two thirds of the original-wft solution. (without having the need of a battery-grip at all to use this feature). And another 100$ savings when using the geotagging-feature.

Comparing the prices of 60D and 7D considering these aspects, gives another 250$ savings by buying the 60D.


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## Neuron (Sep 1, 2010)

Anyone notice that since the release of the 60D, 7D prices have gone up? Before the release I could find a 7D in pretty much any store for 1699 or 1650, now it's no less than 1750.


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## Edwin Herdman (Sep 1, 2010)

Most of my second post on the microadjustment thread is probably more relevant here, so here's a link.

When I first saw the 60D specs, it's true that I also felt a bit of shock: Even though I wanted to be smug about how poorly some people were reacting, I felt somewhat the same way. But I guess that's what happens when you take a well-respected line (the x0 line) and essentially gut the expensive bits from the build - like the 

To Canon's credit they have positioned the model pretty well on price; it's fair to think of it as letting more people in the door over the $200 more at launch the 50D went for. However, you now have to pay $600 more to get back to roughly where the 50D was (plus video features which are not adding price onto the new cameras as the T1i / T2i are the basic models demonstrate).


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## mivaho (Sep 1, 2010)

Neuron said:


> Anyone notice that since the release of the 60D, 7D prices have gone up? Before the release I could find a 7D in pretty much any store for 1699 or 1650, now it's no less than 1750.



Yep, seeing something similar with the 50D body it went from Euro 679 a week ago to Euro 695. Not as big a rise but it's going up instead of down.  Kit price stayed the same though.

Michel


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## that1guy (Sep 1, 2010)

Neuron said:


> Anyone notice that since the release of the 60D, 7D prices have gone up? Before the release I could find a 7D in pretty much any store for 1699 or 1650, now it's no less than 1750.



Here you go...Adorama still has for around $1,500: http://www.adorama.com/ICA7D.html


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## ELK (Sep 1, 2010)

Although joystick removal from 60D deserves some criticism and the previews mention that new multi-way controller is not so convenient, but it has one advantage when shooting with grip - it's easily reachable in both portrait and landscape orientation.


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## mivaho (Sep 3, 2010)

Hi,

60D just arrived in a web store for 1199 Euro (status in back order), 7D sells for just 40 Euro more (1239 Euro) at the same store.
Choices, choices, choices.

Well not for me, just having bought a 50D for half the price.

Michel


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## unruled (Sep 4, 2010)

mivaho said:


> Hi,
> 
> 60D just arrived in a web store for 1199 Euro (status in back order), 7D sells for just 40 Euro more (1239 Euro) at the same store.
> Choices, choices, choices.
> ...



7d 40 euro more? wow. What bad price positioning. :/


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## Neuron (Sep 4, 2010)

that1guy said:


> Here you go...Adorama still has for around $1,500: http://www.adorama.com/ICA7D.html



Thanks, but I should've clarified I am in Canada ;-)


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## that1guy (Sep 4, 2010)

Neuron said:


> that1guy said:
> 
> 
> > Here you go...Adorama still has for around $1,500: http://www.adorama.com/ICA7D.html
> ...



Ahhh, gotcha  No worries!


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## Edwin Herdman (Sep 5, 2010)

mivaho said:


> 60D just arrived in a web store for 1199 Euro (status in back order), 7D sells for just 40 Euro more (1239 Euro) at the same store.
> Choices, choices, choices.


Not much of a choice, you're losing on exchange rate...you may lose domestic warranty work options buying an imported (US) "gray market" model, but that 1199 Euro price comes out to around $1546 US, which is slightly less than the US 7D price, compared to the $1099 price...save yourself a bundle, you could get a lens or two with the money.

Always felt it was a bit grubby of some companies to launch the same products at the same numerical price when the exchange rates are so skewed. Canon must love people who buy European releases though!


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## NormanBates (Sep 5, 2010)

prices are always a bit higher here in Europe, but there's a reason: first, the seller has to charge 18% VAT or more; and second, the manufacturer is required by law to offer a minimum of 2 years of warranty (on the second year the burden of proof falls on the buyer, who is required to prove that it was the manufacturer's fault that the item is no longer working, but still...)

and of course on top of that we usually get a little bit ripped off, but not as much as it seems when you look at the exchange rates and make a fast conversion

in any case, he was comparing same-store prices for 60D and 7D, and they seem to be too close indeed

current calumetphoto preorder prices for 60D / 7D, body only:

US: 1.100 / 1.700 USD
UK: 1.100 / 1.200 GBP
DE: 1.150 / 1.330 EUR
NL: 1.150 / 1.280 EUR

I'd expect the 60D to fall a bit in price here in europe as a couple of months go by and stores find ways to sneak them in somehow (I don't know what they do with those 7D bodies, but that US-EUR price ratio is totally unusual, let's hope they can do the same with other models)


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## Edwin Herdman (Sep 7, 2010)

Rocky, you ought to see this:

http://vimeo.com/groups/t2i/videos/9924959

As you can see the T2i is out of commission fairly quickly compared to the 7D.

Perhaps you will want to find some alternative explanation, but the magnesium alloy body of the 7D is the key difference between the two cameras with regard to heat dissipation. As you note, other than this the cameras are quite similar, i.e. in how the sensors are mounted.

Obviously, video is not important to all shooters, but overheating can affect live mode as well (perhaps not to the same extent - I haven't seen any evidence one way or another). It's another "pro" feature that 60D users are thought by Canon not to need or miss when it's gone - certainly, if you aren't running into overheating, the lighter weight of the stainless steel and engineering plastic bodies (not to mention the lower price) usually would be an advantage, especially in combination with lighter EF-S lenses.


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## Son of Daguerre (Sep 8, 2010)

It's interesting to note that the new screens found on the T2i and 60D are marginally smaller than those found on the 640x480 models:

3:2 ratio is approx. 4.41 inÂ²
4:3 ratio is approx. 4.45 inÂ²

Does the difference matter? Nope, and I'd much rather have the 1040k screen with the native resolution of the sensor. But it's interesting to see.


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## Edwin Herdman (Sep 8, 2010)

I suspect that if you divided the amount of pixels used for the preview (minus the bands that are mostly wasted on the 4:3 screens) by the area of each screen that the new models will still come out slightly ahead. You certainly get a larger number of pixels for the live view and preview with the new screen. Also, you mean native ratio of the sensor, not resolution...I'm just nitpicking though.


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## unexposure (Sep 8, 2010)

http://www.popphoto.com/canon/2010/08/hands-canon-eos-60d-dslr?page=0,4 another "Hands on" Preview of the 60D. Sounds pretty good to me. ;-)


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## Son of Daguerre (Sep 8, 2010)

Truth be told, while I can understand the vitriol spewed at Uchida & Co., as many "50D+" waiters were disappointed, nevertheless, I think this will definitely sell well as a step-up camera. The LCD crushes all competition, with the dual-front attack of both the 3:2/1040k _and_ the Vari-Angle rotation. As well, if I were not aiming for the 7D (surprise, surprise - I have never owned an SLR, but I'm not a _noob_ as I've shot with a 20D and 7D and I know my stuff), I would go for this, as others probably will, because the Rebels are too plasticky (_externally_, that is - you can't deny that the 60D has a _slightly_ better build than the T2i) and lack the heft. Plus, my atrophied muscles could probably do better with the 60D, which is a full 9 oz. lighter than the flagship APS-C (I'm stubborn). But for those who aren't stubborn, and want the scene modes (bleh! I'm a full-Manual guy on my SX10 IS), this will be a great cam.

The trapezoidal status LCD is a nice aesthetic touch, in my opinion.


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## Edwin Herdman (Sep 9, 2010)

Rocky said:


> In terms of pixels on the wide side of the displayed picture:
> 3:2 ratio is 1249 pixel
> 4:3 ratio is 1107 pixel
> So the T2i has a slightly sharper display than the T1i


Thanks for running those calculations, Rocky.


Son of Daguerre said:


> Truth be told, while I can understand the vitriol spewed at Uchida & Co., as many "50D+" waiters were disappointed, nevertheless, I think this will definitely sell well as a step-up camera.


Agreed. Secure Digital is a tangible benefit around this price point (you can easily insert the cards into the front panel of many commodity PCs for instance), and the other features of the camera will mostly sell themselves to people looking to step up. Canon simply doesn't see the need for a step down from the 7D. So in both categories they will be pulling customers into a higher category.

For my part, they may have a buyer in the 5D3 segment depending on when that releases and at what price.


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## Son of Daguerre (Sep 13, 2010)

Rocky said:


> My calculation come up slightly different than yours.
> 3:2 ratio is approx. 4.13 inÂ²
> 4:3 ratio is approx. 4.32 inÂ²



9Ã·5=1.8

1.8Ã—3=5.4
√5.4=2.3237900077244501311075592398694;
1.8Ã—2=3.6
√3.6=1.8973665961010275991993361266596;
2.3237900077244501311075592398694Ã— 1.8973665961010275991993361266596=4.4090815370097205767551113344698

Thus, 3â€Ã—3:2 ratio = approx. 4.41in2


9Ã·7=1.2857142857142857142857142857143

1.2857142857142857142857142857143Ã—4=5.1428571428571428571428571428571
√5.1428571428571428571428571428571=2.2677868380553633632870992174051;
1.2857142857142857142857142857143Ã—3=3.8571428571428571428571428571429
√3.8571428571428571428571428571429=1.9639610121239314313948773687406;
2.2677868380553633632870992174051Ã— 1.9639610121239314313948773687406=4.4538449337485416119277191638721

Thus, 3â€Ã—4:3 ratio = approx. 4.45in2


My original calculation stands.


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## Son of Daguerre (Sep 13, 2010)

Rocky said:


> Son of Daguerre said:
> 
> 
> > Rocky said:
> ...



You're right, I messed up my Theorem of Pythagoras.


----------



## Son of Daguerre (Sep 13, 2010)

Rocky said:


> Both your starting line does not make sense.
> 
> Geometry rule : For right angle triangle, The sum of the square of 2 sides of the right angle equals the square of the side opposite of the triangle.
> The LCD screen is a rectangle. The diagonal is 3"
> ...



Here's the simpler way:

3:2 ratio

9Ã·13 (bec. hypoteneuse2=32+22=13_x_) = 0.69230769230769230769230769230769
0.69230769230769230769230769230769Ã—6=4.1538461538461538461538461538462

3â€Ã—3:2 = approx. 4.15in2;


4:3 ratio

9Ã·25 (bec. hypoteneuse2=42+32=25_x_) = 0.36
0.36Ã—12=4.32

3â€Ã—4:3 = 4.32in2


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## Son of Daguerre (Sep 14, 2010)

Rocky said:


> Son of Daguerre said:
> 
> 
> > Here's the simpler way:
> ...



I'll elaborate:

*3:2 ratio*

3" is the diagonal of the screen. Since the Pythagorean Theorem states that the hypotenuse squared equals the sum of the other two sides in a right triangle, ergo, 3" squared (9) is 3 horizontal parts squared plus 2 vertical parts squared (32+22), which equals 13 divisions (9+4=13).

So... we divide 9 by 13 to get the GCF (Greatest Common Factor) of both the height and the width.

*9Ã·13=0.69230769230769230769230769230769*

Then, instead of multiplying this number by two and by three and multiplying the results by each other, we can just multiply by six, which _is_ 3Ã—2.

*0.69230769230769230769230769230769Ã—6=4.1538461538461538461538461538462*

To the hundredth place estimate, that's 4.15.
_Thus, a 3" screen with a 3:2 ratio has an area of approximately _*4.15in2*_._

4:3 ratio

3" is the diagonal of the screen. Since this is a screen with four horizontal units and three vertical units, ergo, 3" squared (9) is 4 horizontal parts squared plus 3 vertical parts squared (42+32), which equals 25 divisions (16+9=25).

So... we divide 9 by 25 to get the GCF (Greatest Common Factor) of both the height and the width.

*9Ã·25=0.36*

Then, instead of multiplying this number by three and by four and multiplying the results by each other, we can just multiply by twelve, which _is_ 4Ã—3.

*0.36Ã—12=4.32*

_Thus, a 3" screen with a 4:3 ratio has an area of _*4.32in2*_._

*Now* does my earlier post before?


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## Son of Daguerre (Sep 15, 2010)

Actually, I think we're _both_ wrong!

My new calculation is giving me

Approx. *2.88in2* for the T2i and 60D
Approx. *1.56in2* for the 40D and later

Somewhere, we're messing up...


----------



## Son of Daguerre (Sep 15, 2010)

Rocky said:


> Son of Daguerre said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, I think we're _both_ wrong!
> ...





Son of Daguerre said:


> Truth be told, while I can understand the vitriol spewed at Uchida & Co., as many "50D+" waiters were disappointed, nevertheless, I think this will definitely sell well as a step-up camera. The LCD crushes all competition, with the dual-front attack of both the 3:2/1040k _and_ the Vari-Angle rotation. As well, if I were not aiming for the 7D (surprise, surprise - I have never owned an SLR, but I'm not a _noob_ as I've shot with a 20D and 7D and I know my stuff), I would go for this, as others probably will, because the Rebels are too plasticky (_externally_, that is - you can't deny that the 60D has a _slightly_ better build than the T2i) and lack the heft. Plus, my atrophied muscles could probably do better with the 60D, which is a full 9 oz. lighter than the flagship APS-C (I'm stubborn). But for those who aren't stubborn, and want the scene modes (bleh! I'm a full-Manual guy on my SX10 IS), this will be a great cam.
> 
> The trapezoidal status LCD is a nice aesthetic touch, in my opinion.



I don't own one. Anyways, look at the post before that, then. The result is the same as yours.


----------



## Son of Daguerre (Sep 15, 2010)

Son of Daguerre said:


> I'll elaborate:
> 
> *3:2 ratio*
> 
> ...


----------



## Son of Daguerre (Sep 15, 2010)

Rocky said:


> Son of Daguerre said:
> 
> 
> > I don't own one. Anyways, look at the post before that, then. The result is the same as yours.
> ...



The post before that was _not_ done by you, but whatever. If you can't be civil I am going to wash my hands of this conversation. And yes, I know how to do algebra.

*(a+b)2=2(a2+b2)-(a-b)2*


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## Son of Daguerre (Sep 16, 2010)

Rocky said:


> Take another look, the post in front is done by me. I am the only one that have done the calculation after your wrong calculation. Your Algebric formula needed o be correcrted too. The formula should bea+b)^2=a^2+2ab+b^2
> If your are so good, would you like to calcaulate the pixel count onthe width of the displayed picture on both the 3:2 and 4:3 LCD



Pardon, but *this* post was certainly written by _moi_.

The 3:2 width is obviously 720 pixels. The 4:3 is 639x426, I'm assuming?

And I'm aware that *(a+b)2=a2+b2+2ab*, but my formula works as well. Don't knock it 'till you try it, Rocky.


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## Son of Daguerre (Sep 16, 2010)

Rocky said:


> Son of Daguerre said:
> 
> 
> > Rocky said:
> ...



You're kidding. 1,040k does _not_ mean 1.04MP! It is 3x the actual number of pixels.


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## kubelik (Sep 16, 2010)

I came across this thread and it was too amusing not to read...

I don't know why anything needs to be assumed; canon gives you the pixel counts for the screens:

1040K is 720x480
920K is 640x480

you do some math and Rocky's first-time-around numbers are correct,

1040K is 4.15 square inches,
920K is 4.32 square inches

the T2i's overall screen area size may be smaller but it's a more efficient use of space, since you're not wasting area when viewing a 3:2 image on a 4:3 screen

and trust me, the t2i's screen is VASTLY improved over the older 920K screen. I shoot with a 5D Mark II and my wife shoots with a t2i ... she can be shooting with her Sigma 18-200 kit lens and the image will look better on her screen than my image shot with a 24-70 L. up until we get home and put it on the same monitor, that is. then the 5D2 and L glass difference becomes apparent. I want to know what kind of magic sauce is in that 1040K screen besides just pixel count.


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## unexposure (Sep 17, 2010)

@Dilbert and @Rocky: 
Could you please continue your private-war outside of this thread, maybe via pm, and concentrate on something more "60D-related" than just algebra for screen-measures?


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## Jan (Sep 17, 2010)

unexposure said:


> @Dilbert and @Rocky:
> Could you please continue your private-war outside of this thread, maybe via pm, and concentrate on something more "60D-related" than just algebra for screen-measures?


Ah, Dilbert & Rocky again. Could someone (Cobalt720?) do something about it?


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## papa-razzi (Sep 23, 2010)

One point not brought up in this thread is that the US dollar has been dropping steadily since mid 2007 (from ~120 yen to 84 yen), and this isn't likely to reverse soon (why is another discussion entirely). This amounts to the equivalent of a steady price drop in camera prices sold in the US - as far as the money Canon brings in. Rather than raise list prices on existing product (which is hard to do without negative backlash by consumers), Canon has been raising prices when brining new products to market. Example is the EF 70-200 f/2.8L II. Big price jump.

The 7D is your 50D successor, only with a price increase via a name change. That is the camera the xxD guys wanted to see follow the 50D. The problem is it isn't at the price point expected. The 60D line is not dead, it has been renamed to 7D. And unfortunately, has had a price increase partly due to exchange rates.

By naming this new camera a 60D instead of a 600D, Canon Marketing set expectations that it would be a clear advancement beyond a 50D, which it is not. Therefore, xxD owners, and those planning to be, are appropriatly dissapointed as is understandable.

Canon built a new camera to hit a price point in their product line up. The camera must be evaluated based upon what it offers for the price and the desires and behaivors of the consumers that purchase cameras at that price. I'm sure the 60D name will be a branding bonus for those that now purchase this new camera. Something a little above a Rebel. Canon has repurposed/repositioned the 60D name.

Not withstanding the dissapointment by some - On its own merit, the 60D looks to be a good product and it will sell very well at the price point released. (which will drop a bit once it gets to the market and all the channels have adequate inventory).

Nikon is a fine camera line as well. Canon and Nikon will leap frog over the years. If you don't have a lot of investment in lenses, then just go ahead and buy a Nikon if they have more of what you want at the price point you are looking at.


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## ELK (Sep 23, 2010)

papa-razzi said:


> One point not brought up in this thread is that the US dollar has been dropping steadily since mid 2007 (from ~120 yen to 84 yen), and this isn't likely to reverse soon (why is another discussion entirely). This amounts to the equivalent of a steady price drop in camera prices sold in the US - as far as the money Canon brings in. Rather than raise list prices on existing product (which is hard to do without negative backlash by consumers), Canon has been raising prices when brining new products to market. Example is the EF 70-200 f/2.8L II. Big price jump.
> 
> The 7D is your 50D successor, only with a price increase via a name change. That is the camera the xxD guys wanted to see follow the 50D. The problem is it isn't at the price point expected. The 60D line is not dead, it has been renamed to 7D. And unfortunately, has had a price increase partly due to exchange rates.
> 
> ...



YES! 

And Nikon is just unaware about that unwelcome dollar/ien rates.

Nikon's decision was very wise. For $300 less than 7D you can get D7000 with almost the same features. Some will argue about 19 cross-type sensors vs. 9 and 8 fps vs 6. If this is deal-breaker for you, then fine, otherwise D7000 is an excellent choice. I don't mention 60D here, it will have to compete with D5000 successor, because 60d simply doesn't fit into this category.

In fact, Canon's 7D was D300s killer and it did that job perfectly. Nikon's answer is more aggressive - they already killed the yet unborn 60D and are going to fight against 7D. Great war, where the customer is the winner.

We can expect that 7D price continue to drop. D300s sales will be dead waiting for it's successor. 60D needs to lose "weight" ASAP - at $800-900 it will become an attractive choice for upgrading from rebel. And this all will finally help me get T2i for $600 

Switching from Canon to Nikon today seems to be right decision. But tomorrow one may want to come back hardly. Because Canon's answer won't be late. I love this war!


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 23, 2010)

dilbert said:


> I have a sneaking suspicion that changing camera manufacturers is about as effective as changing lanes in rush hour on the freeway because the other lane is now moving faster. More often than not you end up further behind with all the changing.



Yeah, but there's a trick to that - experience. For example, after driving the same freeway home for a couple of years, I know in a certain stretch, on average the far right lane moves the fastest, and on a different stretch, the #2 lane is the 'best'. 

Of course, I spend a lot more looking through a windshield than a viewfinder, so I have no idea how to translate that analogy back to dSLRs...


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## kubelik (Sep 23, 2010)

dilbert said:


> ELK said:
> 
> 
> > Switching from Canon to Nikon today seems to be right decision. But tomorrow one may want to come back hardly. Because Canon's answer won't be late. I love this war!
> ...



dilbert and elk, you guys have it right. who's "in the lead" is always changing, and it makes little sense to jump ship back and forth as each body comes out, as you'll just end up wasting time and money and realize in the end you're getting the worst of both worlds rather than the best of both


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## Rocky (Sep 23, 2010)

Part of the reason (may be problem) of people thinking about switch Camera maker (or even switch new body within the same band) is that cameras are relatively cheap. In the '60s, a good camera cost almost as much as one month wage and people stick to their camera for 10, 20 years. Nowadays people always want the newest model. I stress the point want, not need. Let us be honest to ourselves, does the 40D really give us a better picture than the 20D? Or does the 7D really give us a better picture than the 50D?? I am talking about prints, not pixel peeping. Especially now that the resolution of the sensor demands the best prime lens. Even that we need to beware of the diffraction effect. Granted that each newer model give us more feature that we want, but how many of them do we really need ?? Nowadays, camera makers try to out done each other. It becomes an endless chase for us.


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## Rocky (Sep 23, 2010)

I should have a more detail on the diffraction effect before some one jumps on me. In reality, the diffraction effect is always there (from the size of the lens aperture). For the lower Mp sensor, It just cannot resolve the diffraction effect. For high Mp, the effect will show up due to higher resolution. We can down size the High Mp picture to "eliminate" the effect. But then, we will end up with a lower Mp picture


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## Edwin Herdman (Sep 24, 2010)

neuroanatomist said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > I have a sneaking suspicion that changing camera manufacturers is about as effective as changing lanes in rush hour on the freeway because the other lane is now moving faster. More often than not you end up further behind with all the changing.
> ...


The problem with that analogy is that the stakes for roadway driving are - either you lose or gain a few seconds, or you die (I saw that result yesterday...), whereas for camera lenses and bodies, you lose money, and never make any (ignoring for a second the possibility that there is some niche lens for the system you switch to that lets you get more business - HD video obviously is the most recent "selling" feature of a DSLR and everybody already has it - so camera body features to me don't really sell a vendor switch, especially not a quarterly or yearly one where the improvements are small. Moving up from a Rebel to a x0D, or better, is another matter).

I'm not going to fault anybody for going with the D700 right now, but even a few Canon lenses means the battle uphill to be satisfied with the new format is going to be a more protracted one. It will take longer for it to make sense financially to switch vendors.

IMHO, people who are switching bodies on the basis of features must be using nothing but kit lenses, if they have that little attachment to the more expensive half of the system - the lenses. I am rather jealous of the new 200-400mm, but I get a lot more mileage and a better utility to price (not to mention fun to price) ratio with the new wide angle TS-Es than I would have with Nikon's equivalents. If you can switch every year, you are not taking full advantage of the lenses available, which can improve IQ at least as much as a new body bought a year later. Seriously - would I move from a T1i with a 50mm f/1.4 for good portraits to a D7000 and have to buy the prime all over again as part of the yearly cyclical refresh? Not likely, no matter how good the Nikon prime is, the investment has already been made. And when the time comes around for Canon to release something to get people interested in it, I'll still have the 50mm from whichever system I choose - Nikon or Canon. I think real wisdom comes in recognizing that the "advantages" of one body over another are relatively small and fleeting, with the exception of folks who NEED dynamic range, ISO, or shots in quick succession, where one manufacturer often "beats" the other for a period of time (for example, Nikon is still considered to be doing very well on the ISO front, though less so on sheer file size).

And if nothing else, Nikon's market positioning seems opaque. I'm told that the D7000 is better than the D3000 / D3100 (no surprise, the D3000 is an unlovely camera, in my opinion), but also better than the D300 (in many areas). Hmm? Laugh as we will at "T1i" and "Rebel," Canon does more to differentiate their segments than throw a random string of zeroes after the D and the first letter.


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## Daviii (Sep 24, 2010)

ELK said:


> Switching from Canon to Nikon today seems to be right decision. But tomorrow one may want to come back hardly. Because Canon's answer won't be late. I love this war!



Switching from Canon to Nikon today because D7000 is better than 60D, or because it's cheaper than 7D is just *A NO SENSE*. 

New customers are the target, for those the D7000 is great, also for Nikon D90 users.
Canon customers with a lens collection wont have a single reason to switch (Just buy a damn 7D which is even better), and those Nikon new customers won't have a reason to switch in the future either, that's the point of the D7000, to build a consumer base.

It's much cheaper to buy a 7D, even it's $300 more expensive, than changing an entire collection of lens. "Switching" should be for professionals only, in a whole different level, for a whole different reasons. And even pros won't switch their brand just for a damn second body, mainly because Nikon's still better in wideangle and Canon's still better in telephoto, so switching should imply changing style reasons, or something "serious enough".

Both Canon 17-55 f2.8 and 15-85 lenses are BETTER than Nikon's 17-55 and 16-85 counterparts, and second hand lenses are much cheaper and easy to find, and those two reasons alone are WAY more decisive, in my opinion, for an advanced amateur than camera features.

Don't get me wrong. Nikon have impressive lenses for the professionals. 14-24 is unbelievable and canon does not come even close, but for the advanced amateur in an APS-C body, Canon's lens lineup is quite more adequate.

To sum up my opinion: Once you've chosen a brand it's basically stupid to switch, since no brand offers much better quality in ANY aspect. You may switch to Nikon from Canon, or Canon from Nikon, but your photography is not gonna improve. Your wallet is gonna get slimmer though.


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## Q5Driver (Oct 3, 2010)

I also like the new angled top info screen. That's pretty cool.  Engadget photo gallery:

http://www.engadget.com/photos/canon-60d-press-shots/#3299046
[/quote]

Yes but unfortunately no "eye" sensor (as on T2i) to switch off the display.
This could be irritating when taking multiple exposures, also the display does switch off when pressing shutter release halfway.


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## Jan (Oct 4, 2010)

Q5Driver said:


> Yes but unfortunately no "eye" sensor (as on T2i) to switch off the display.
> This could be irritating when taking multiple exposures, also the display does switch off when pressing shutter release halfway.


Not unfortunately. Unlike as on T2i, the 60D's RGB-LCD is off by default. All necessary information is on the monochrome LCD.


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## jouster (Oct 20, 2010)

Rocky said:


> Part of the reason (may be problem) of people thinking about switch Camera maker (or even switch new body within the same band) is that cameras are relatively cheap. In the '60s, a good camera cost almost as much as one month wage and people stick to their camera for 10, 20 years. Nowadays people always want the newest model. I stress the point want, not need. Let us be honest to ourselves, does the 40D really give us a better picture than the 20D? Or does the 7D really give us a better picture than the 50D?? I am talking about prints, not pixel peeping. Especially now that the resolution of the sensor demands the best prime lens. Even that we need to beware of the diffraction effect. Granted that each newer model give us more feature that we want, but how many of them do we really need ?? Nowadays, camera makers try to out done each other. It becomes an endless chase for us.




There was less need to change, as all 35mm film fit all cameras. You can't change sensors (ok...except for that weird Ricoh system) so you buy a new camera. Do you need it? Only you can decide that, and the perception equals the fact: if you wake up in 2020 deciding you need the 5D mark 7 and you have the cash then you have the reason to buy. Need does not have to equate to your profession, or to some system metric; it is decided solely by you.


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