# TN's Nikon Repair Surprize



## old-pr-pix (Jun 27, 2015)

I know this forum isn't a great supporter of Tony Northrup, especially once TN said he was switching from 5DMIII to Nikon D810. However, TN did stay w/Canon for the 70-200 f2.8 lens (and the 7DMII). Now, he has found another reason to stay with Canon. He had purchased a used Nikon 70-200 lens for his new D810. (He claims no sponsorship and buys everything open market.) The lens came from an unnamed, but reputable source. That lens now needs repair, but Nikon refuses to repair the lens because it was a grey market import. TN had no way to know it was grey market since it was used and there is no public source to confirm serial numbers. It is unclear if the provider knew either. And, since Nikon won't sell parts to third party repair houses in U.S. it potentially leaves the lens useless.

Since TN has a major international following he may get Nikon to cave on its position and repair the lens or at least tell him what country to send it to for repair. But, good luck to any of us in a similar situation! So, if you are buying used Nikon stuff be sure to ask its pedigree. Canon seems much more forgiving in this regard.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 27, 2015)

Just goes to show that only the sensor matters!


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## mistaspeedy (Jun 27, 2015)

Tony Northrup also did a review of the 5DsR against the D810 and concluded that the 5DsR was better (more detail). When you scale the 5DsR image down to the size of te D810 the noise is similar but there is more detail in the Canon image. As far as shadow noise is concerned, there was more noise in the Canon image *BUT* there was also more detail there as well. So you can apply noise reduction to get the same noise level as the D810, and retain the same amount of detail as the D810.

Long story short:
both have similar noise at the same size
the Canon has more detail at the same size in non-shadow areas
they both have similar noise/detail in the shadows once you apply noise reduction to the Canon

I feel that Tony Northrup fairly judges most camera equipment... and that he isn't a fanboy of any one company.


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## meywd (Jun 27, 2015)

mistaspeedy said:


> Tony Northrup also did a review of the 5DsR against the D810 and concluded that the 5DsR was better (more detail). When you scale the 5DsR image down to the size of te D810 the noise is similar but there is more detail in the Canon image. As far as shadow noise is concerned, there was more noise in the Canon image *BUT* there was also more detail there as well. So you can apply noise reduction to get the same noise level as the D810, and retain the same amount of detail as the D810.
> 
> Long story short:
> both have similar noise at the same size
> ...



It's not that he is a fanboy or not, the problem is that when you test the AF of a camera you should do it properly, a person running or walking in your direction is not much of a test.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 27, 2015)

mistaspeedy said:


> I feel that Tony Northrup fairly judges most camera equipment... and that he isn't a fanboy of any one company.



He's a salesman. What differentiates TN from KR is the former doesn't harp on feeding his growing family. Neither is a fan of one brand. Both can be counted on to recommend the newest gear without regard to brand because most buyers of the older gear have already bought, so the newer gear generates more affiliate-link revenue. 

IMO, someone who conducts a "sports test" of the 5DIII and gets a hit rate of ~60% on a subject walking sedately towards him is doing something fundamentally wrong.


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## kaihp (Jun 27, 2015)

old-pr-pix said:


> He had purchased a used Nikon 70-200 lens for his new D810. (He claims no sponsorship and buys everything open market.) The lens came from an unnamed, but reputable source. That lens now needs repair, but Nikon refuses to repair the lens because it was a grey market import.



I wonder if this only applies to the USA or only to lenses outside the warrenty period, because my brother just got a 70-200 repaired under warranty (ie at Nikon's expense), despite it was purchased outside the country where it got repaired (it was bought in HK, he's in Norway)


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 27, 2015)

I believe that in Europe, consumer protection laws come into play. In the US, Canada, and probably a lot of other countries, its a big issue, and a good reason to avoid Nikon.

Canon also may start copying Nikon, their Warranty terma allow it, but they are not enforcing it.


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## old-pr-pix (Jun 27, 2015)

Plus, at least to this point, Canon also sells parts to third party repair houses. Nikon does not. Hence, even if Canon refuses to repair a product there are alternatives that do not exist in the Nikon universe. (Unless you find a shop that has cannibalized enough broken Nikon gear to have a stock of used parts.)


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## jd7 (Jun 28, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> mistaspeedy said:
> 
> 
> > I feel that Tony Northrup fairly judges most camera equipment... and that he isn't a fanboy of any one company.
> ...



From what I have seen of TN, my main criticism is that he comes up with what seems to be a clanger every now and again, rather than that idea he is a fanboy or that he fails to be critical of new gear (I haven't seen enough of his reviews to have an opinion about the latter issue). That AF test issue did seem quite odd. And another one is his statement at about 6:06 in this video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq3ISUHsfsQ
that "mirror lock up doesn't work in Live View mode, when in fact (unless I'm badly mistaken) it is inherent in Live View mode that the mirror is locked up. Am I missing something?

Also, starting at 6:24 in the same video he compares the 5DsR and D810 and concludes a landscape scene he has shot is "lacking sharp edges and textures" and it is hard to see much difference between the two cameras for that sort of shot. However, using the 24-105 f/4L (even at f/8) doesn't seem like best possible basis for making that assessment (however useful the lens may be for many things), does it?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 28, 2015)

old-pr-pix said:


> Plus, at least to this point, Canon also sells parts to third party repair houses. Nikon does not. Hence, even if Canon refuses to repair a product there are alternatives that do not exist in the Nikon universe. (Unless you find a shop that has cannibalized enough broken Nikon gear to have a stock of used parts.)



Canon stopped supporting all but a very few third party repair shops in the USA at least two years ago. Nikon does exactly the same thing, they have a very few authorized repair shops, but only for camera bodies and consumer lenses. For Pro lenses, you must go to Nikon.


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## Don Haines (Jun 28, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> IMO, someone who conducts a "sports test" of the 5DIII and gets a hit rate of ~60% on a subject walking sedately towards him is doing something fundamentally wrong.


A poor hit rate because with the chosen AF settings the person should have been running quickly  Sounds like a configuration problem to me..... No matter which camera or brand, someone who knows how to set it properly for the conditions should be getting a 90 percent or better hit rate...


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 28, 2015)

Don Haines said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > IMO, someone who conducts a "sports test" of the 5DIII and gets a hit rate of ~60% on a subject walking sedately towards him is doing something fundamentally wrong.
> ...



Exactly my point. So, either he's an "expert" who doesn't know what he's doing, or he's an expert who knows exactly what he's doing and is intentionally biasing his "tests". Either way, not someone who's opinion should be relied upon.


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## Sporgon (Jun 28, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



I thought an 'ex' is a has-been, and a 'spurt' is a drip under pressure


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## old-pr-pix (Jun 28, 2015)

jd7 said:


> From what I have seen of TN, my main criticism is that he comes up with what seems to be a clanger every now and again, rather than that idea he is a fanboy or that he fails to be critical of new gear...
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gq3ISUHsfsQ ...
> Also, starting at 6:24 in the same video he compares the 5DsR and D810 and concludes a landscape scene he has shot is "lacking sharp edges and textures" and it is hard to see much difference between the two cameras for that sort of shot. However, using the 24-105 f/4L (even at f/8) doesn't seem like best possible basis for making that assessment (however useful the lens may be for many things), does it?


As neuro said, TN is a salesman... he is selling himself, his books and website hits. His target audience is the "masses" and not typically the more proficient prosumer. He isn't sponsored so he has to buy or rent what he reviews (the 5DsR beta camera being an exception). The key to success for him seems to be getting videos out quickly - sometimes at the expense of accuracy. Yet, he is trainable and interacts with his following who will often correct his gaffs. Unfortunately he doesn't re-edit the old videos, he just makes corrections in future videos. So if you don't follow him regularly you will miss the corrections. 

The stated point of the referenced video was to see whether there was a discernible difference between the cameras using a mid-grade lens. A separate studio based video had already proclaimed the 5DsR's superiority. The Canon 24-105 L wasn't used, a Sigma 24-105 was used for both 5DsR and Nikon D810.

No TN fanboy, I do find his live shows fun to watch (finger on fast forward). Consider it entertainment - look elsewhere for calibrated technical evaluations.


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## adventureous (Jun 28, 2015)

For a brief moment, TN has brought to the forefront another difference between companies.


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## AlanF (Jun 28, 2015)

old-pr-pix said:


> I know this forum isn't a great supporter of Tony Northrup,



He is a "friend of the site" and now an official reviewer.


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## privatebydesign (Jun 28, 2015)

AlanF said:


> old-pr-pix said:
> 
> 
> > I know this forum isn't a great supporter of Tony Northrup,
> ...



No, that is Dustin Abbot.


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## jd7 (Jun 29, 2015)

old-pr-pix said:


> jd7 said:
> 
> 
> > From what I have seen of TN, my main criticism is that he comes up with what seems to be a clanger every now and again, rather than that idea he is a fanboy or that he fails to be critical of new gear...
> ...



Good points. I'd missed the part at the beginning where he specifically said he was setting out to test a mid-grade lens. Clearly I wasn't paying enough attention to TN's video! I will edit my earlier post.


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## 9VIII (Jun 29, 2015)

I've been openly critical of Tony in the past. It has nothing to do with his choice of gear.
This: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f5zN6NVx-hY is his version of being helpful to consumers. 
To be even moderately successful and leave that as your primary response to one of the most common questions in photography really makes me wonder.


Now this guy: https://www.youtube.com/user/MichaelTheMentor
He's the best reviewer on Youtube as far as I can tell. And he rescues people from Earthquakes... May as well be wearing a cape.
I put him just below Brian at TDP and Roger at Lensrentals as far as thorough and logical gear testing goes (I think of Roger as more of the Bruce Banner type, except he puts everything back together too).


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## quod (Jun 29, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Just goes to show that only the sensor matters!


Thank you for your usual informative contribution.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 29, 2015)

quod said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Just goes to show that only the sensor matters!
> ...



Thank you for your pithy comment on my informative contribution.


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## RGF (Jun 29, 2015)

kaihp said:


> old-pr-pix said:
> 
> 
> > He had purchased a used Nikon 70-200 lens for his new D810. (He claims no sponsorship and buys everything open market.) The lens came from an unnamed, but reputable source. That lens now needs repair, but Nikon refuses to repair the lens because it was a grey market import.
> ...



Not sure if this is true, but I have heard if you actually purchased the camera/lens aboard and have the sales receipt to show you did purchase it there (versus grey market), then Nikon will repair the camera. 

This makes some sense to me.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 29, 2015)

RGF said:


> kaihp said:
> 
> 
> > old-pr-pix said:
> ...



If you buy one in Canada from a authorized dealer, and send it to Nikon USA, they will not repair it. However, in the past, they would, so you have to look at the date of those comments, since Nikon has toughened up their policy.

Then, they sometimes either miss the fact that its gray market, or grant a exception, but it seems to be sporadic.

Nikon service still hasn't figured out how to become customer friendly and handle charges / credits with other Nikon units in other countries. I've seen Thom Hogan, who is a finance type, say this is due to their corporate structure, and that Canon is much better organized as far as the way they do business.

If Nikon USA went ahead and repaired gray market cameras and billed the repair to Nikon China, then Nikon China would have to pay for the fix. Right now, they are happy to have Chinese Dealers sell cameras abroad, because they will never have to repair them, and will make more profit. That goes for Canon as well.

The policy makes for more profit, but it also loses customers. Canon USA could crack down and do the same, but so far, they eat the loss.


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## RGF (Jul 3, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> RGF said:
> 
> 
> > kaihp said:
> ...



And labor rates in China are much lower in than in the US. What does China pay - their rates or the US rates? Their prices reflect their lower labor rate so this greats a problem.

As far as buying while traveling, I think it is reasonable and the warranty should be honored.
Grey market is another story


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## privatebydesign (Aug 17, 2015)

I was just traveling with a New York based photographer who bought a D810 in Iceland when he was shooting there, he got it because he couldn't get one in the USA at the time. Well he needed to get work done on it after a while and Nikon USA were very reluctant to work on it, they did in the end but he had to produce not only the original receipt from the Icelandic shop, but also a copy of the page in his passport with the Icelandic visa in it with the dates he was there.

As for the different country based companies billing each other, I believe Canon USA is a wholly owned subsidiary of Canon Japan who would pick up the bill for any warranty work anyway, I suspect that is also true of Nikon USA/Japan, so any disallowing of genuine products (by any multinational) is purely an 'internal' cost cutting measure.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 17, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> I was just traveling with a New York based photographer who bought a D810 in Iceland when he was shooting there, he got it because he couldn't get one in the USA at the time. Well he needed to get work done on it after a while and Nikon USA were very reluctant to work on it, they did in the end but he had to produce not only the original receipt from the Icelandic shop, but also a copy of the page in his passport with the Icelandic visa in it with the dates he was there.
> 
> As for the different country based companies billing each other, I believe Canon USA is a wholly owned subsidiary of Canon Japan who would pick up the bill for any warranty work anyway, I suspect that is also true of Nikon USA/Japan, so any disallowing of genuine products (by any multinational) is purely an 'internal' cost cutting measure.



Nikon and Canon have different organizational / financial structures. Canon USA does not provide officially a warranty for gray market purchases, but fixes them anyway as long as you have a sales receipt. 

You have to be very careful about used equipment or you may find that it can't be repaired, because its gray market.


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