# AFMA advice sought



## miah (Dec 30, 2012)

I recently purchased a 5D3 after owning only Rebels. I would like to insure that my 5D's auto-focus is as accurate as can be with my lenses, present and future. With much talk of AFMA on this forum, I was hoping to get some advice on which tools are best. It seems Lens Align II and FoCal (I use a Mac) come up more frequently than homebrew solutions, but I'm not sure where to start. Can those of you with lots of AFMA experience offer any words of wisdom?


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## rpt (Dec 30, 2012)

miah said:


> I recently purchased a 5D3 after owning only Rebels. I would like to insure that my 5D's auto-focus is as accurate as can be with my lenses, present and future. With much talk of AFMA on this forum, I was hoping to get some advice on which tools are best. It seems Lens Align II and FoCal (I use a Mac) come up more frequently than homebrew solutions, but I'm not sure where to start. Can those of you with lots of AFMA experience offer any words of wisdom?


I have used the equivalent of the Lens Align method but I finally got FoCal pro and am very happy with the results.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 30, 2012)

I wrote this tutorial a while back:

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Photography-Tips/AF-Microadjustment-Tips.aspx

Since Reikan FoCal came out, I've been using that, and I highly recommend it (I've now sold my LensAlign Pro).


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## miah (Dec 30, 2012)

Thanks for the link, neuro, I'll check it out. Do either of you have Macs? That is, do either of you use the beta Mac version of FoCal? And if so, is it stable enough to purchase the software license now or should I wait for the finished product?


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 30, 2012)

I use a Mac, but haven't successfully used the Mac beta connected to a camera - it had a bug that prevented it from working for me, that has supposedly been fixed, I just haven't needed to use it since then. But I've used it for manual mode on the Mac (where you shoot a set of images with different AFMA values, then load them into FoCal for analysis, and that's fine. I've also run the Win version on my Macs in both Parallels and VMWare virtual machines. 

Be aware that with the 5DIII, fully automatic calibration isn't possible due to limitations in the Canon SDK. You need to manually change the AFMA setting.


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## miah (Dec 30, 2012)

Yeah, I read on Reikan's site the limits of Canon's SDK for the 5D3. Manual mode is fine, but tethering would be convenient, so I hope you're right and the bug's been fixed. Thanks.

So, am I clear in understanding that once you have FoCal you no longer need Lens Align? In other words, does FoCal's software determine your micro adjustment settings without any need for a pitched scale (FoCal's printed target is all that's necessary to get the job done)?


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 30, 2012)

miah said:


> So, am I clear in understanding that once you have FoCal you no longer need Lens Align? In other words, does FoCal's software determine your micro adjustment settings without any need for a pitched scale (FoCal's printed target is all that's necessary to get the job done)?



Correct.


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## miah (Dec 30, 2012)

Great, thanks!


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## Quasimodo (Dec 30, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> miah said:
> 
> 
> > So, am I clear in understanding that once you have FoCal you no longer need Lens Align? In other words, does FoCal's software determine your micro adjustment settings without any need for a pitched scale (FoCal's printed target is all that's necessary to get the job done)?
> ...



A fem questions from me.

I bought the Lens something from spyder. Either my eyes are not good enough or....

1) do you have to buy a new program for each body ( their website asks you to order for a specific body). My camera is a 5D II, but I have and am still borrowing a 1Ds III for the last three years. Hence would I need two payments and two programs for those. The questiens becomes even more pertinent if I finally Get the 1Dx.

2) does the program do the callibration for you? (Of course you need to set it up and so forth) But will it set the appropriate values for you in the camera, or would you still have to go through with shooting many shots,to narrow the gap down as with the solution i have today?


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## Matt (Dec 31, 2012)

I use focal on my mac with very little issues. Occasionally it will freeze up and I just restart the program and it will work fine.

So far I have used it on my 5diii with my 16-35L, 24-70L, 85L and 100L. When I get the time and figure out the space I will adjust my 70-200.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 31, 2012)

Quasimodo said:


> I bought the Lens something from spyder. Either my eyes are not good enough or....
> *I have that Issue, I can not see the fine differences once the setting gets close.*
> 
> 1) do you have to buy a new program for each body ( their website asks you to order for a specific body). My camera is a 5D II, but I have and am still borrowing a 1Ds III for the last three years. Hence would I need two payments and two programs for those. The questiens becomes even more pertinent if I finally Get the 1Dx.
> ...


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## rpt (Dec 31, 2012)

Quasimodo said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > miah said:
> ...


For #1, you can use up to 5 cameras with 1 license of FoCal. See their FAQ under purchasing.
For #2, FoCal will compute the value and tell you after checking out various settings.

There are important things to note regarding tripod stability and non-usage of fluorescent or LED lights. These have been covered in detail on various AFMA threads on this forum. I suggest you search for them so that you don't trip on the same issues...


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 31, 2012)

Quasimodo said:


> 1) do you have to buy a new program for each body ( their website asks you to order for a specific body). My camera is a 5D II, but I have and am still borrowing a 1Ds III for the last three years. Hence would I need two payments and two programs for those. The questiens becomes even more pertinent if I finally Get the 1Dx.
> 
> 2) does the program do the callibration for you? (Of course you need to set it up and so forth) But will it set the appropriate values for you in the camera, or would you still have to go through with shooting many shots,to narrow the gap down as with the solution i have today?



You can have several bodies, I think up to 5 of them at a time, and you can remove ones you don't have anymore and add new ones later. 

Depends on the body. For newer ones (2012), you have to make the AFMA changes yourself, due to Canon's SDK, but FoCal tells you the next value to set as it iteratively refines the calibration (far fewer shots that I'd do manually), and gives you the final value(s) to set. For older bodies it does fully automatic calibration, including setting the final value if you choose.


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## ScottyP (Dec 31, 2012)

Not to hijack the thread, but am I correct in understanding that FoCal does not yet support Canon 6D?


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## curtisnull (Dec 31, 2012)

As of Dec 21 it supports the 6D. 

http://www.reikan.co.uk/focalweb/index.php/2012/12/focal-for-mac-1-7-0-250-beta-released/


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 31, 2012)

ScottyP said:


> Not to hijack the thread, but am I correct in understanding that FoCal does not yet support Canon 6D?



No idea, but if not, you can shoot the images manually then use FoCal to analyze them. That's what I did for 10+ lenses when I got my 1D X.


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## jp121 (Dec 31, 2012)

I just ran FoCal for the first time on my late 2011 17" Mac. There were a few hiccups. One was I had to reset some of the settings on the camera to re-run tests. Some tests just crashed. However, it was the first time I was running the software, so quite probably it was down to me not understanding what I was doing.


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## Quasimodo (Dec 31, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Quasimodo said:
> 
> 
> > I bought the Lens something from spyder. Either my eyes are not good enough or....
> ...



Thank you and rpt and John. I regret buying the Spyder now, as this seems way much easier. I will definitely buy this program. 

Gerhard


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## Old Shooter (Dec 31, 2012)

miah,

I went from an XSi to a 5DIII - things I learned about FoCal...

If you don't have one, get a VERY sturdy tripod.
Print the target as they recommend - matte paper, inkjet, then mount it perfectly flat on some sort of rigid backing.
Get the most light you can on the target - I lacked sufficient indoor lighting so I used sunlight.
When you are validating the target, make sure you get the green "check" at both normal view and zoom setting.
While you have it set up anyways - run the aperture sharpness test - on zooms run at both ends.
Get the "Pro" version - there are a few options that you will greatly appreciate.

Hope this helps!


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## miah (Dec 31, 2012)

Thanks for the print-out, jp121. Very interesting data and nice to know it was done on a Mac.

Thanks for the heads up, Old Shooter. I have a great tripod, but will have to work a little to get the light right. Can you be a little more specific about what features are must-haves in the Pro version? Thanks!


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## rpt (Dec 31, 2012)

Old Shooter said:


> miah,
> 
> I went from an XSi to a 5DIII - things I learned about FoCal...
> 
> ...


+1,000,000,000...
All those matter and even one thing out of whack can get you doing 2 hrs of AFMA with no real result.
Use incandescent bulbs for lighting.


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## Old Shooter (Dec 31, 2012)

miah said:


> Thanks for the print-out, jp121. Very interesting data and nice to know it was done on a Mac.
> 
> Thanks for the heads up, Old Shooter. I have a great tripod, but will have to work a little to get the light right. Can you be a little more specific about what features are must-haves in the Pro version? Thanks!



Things I liked, just off the top of my head...

In the "Pro" version you can vary the f/stop from wide open - I have an old 50mm f/2.5 macro that is so soft at f/2.5 that I had to set it to f/2.8 to get an acceptable run...

You can also vary the ISO in the Pro version...

Lastly, you can manually extend the time to shutter activation after mirror lock-up if you want to give your camera more time to "settle down"...

I am sure some of the "FoCal Pro's" have other examples - but these are three that I used personally...


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## miah (Dec 31, 2012)

*rpt*, what about halogen? I use 50W halogen bulbs in my reading lamps as it puts out a bright, white light (unlike flourescent or LED).


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 31, 2012)

miah said:


> *rpt*, what about halogen? I use 50W halogen bulbs in my reading lamps as it puts out a bright, white light (unlike flourescent or LED).



Halogen is fine - that's just a tungsten bulb filled with a little bit of halogen gas added to the inert gas mixture inside the bulb.


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## rpt (Dec 31, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> miah said:
> 
> 
> > *rpt*, what about halogen? I use 50W halogen bulbs in my reading lamps as it puts out a bright, white light (unlike flourescent or LED).
> ...


Thanks for responding, neuro. We were ringing in the new year! Happy new year all.


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## THX723 (Jan 4, 2013)

There's also a less sophisticated (and less expensive) FoCal alternative from the maker of LensAlign, called FocusTune:

http://michaeltapesdesign.com/focustune.html

It works similar to FoCal manual mode, where the software analyzes a series of images you took at various AFMA settings then spits out a report with its best recommendation. Again it's far less elegant than FoCal, but does the trick too. Also good to know that current LensAlign owners qualify for a discount.


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## Mencho(22) (Jan 7, 2013)

Old Shooter said:


> miah,
> 
> When you are validating the target, make sure you get the green "check" at both normal view and zoom setting.



Why is that?

Let me tell you I am adjusting my lens 50x focal length and normally I can't get the green check when making zoom for example with a 135mm or 200mm lens.

Besides I am doing AFMA, I am still having some doubts.

1.- Distance to target: All bibliography tells you must set the target 50x when focal lenght is less than 200mm and set 25x for larger focal. 

So for example... for a 200mm lens I should set the target to 10meters... and for a 300mm to 7.50 meters?
To be honest, 15meters seems to be a lot for a 300mm lens.

What are your experiences with that?

2.- Trying to AFMA a zoom lens for example a 24-70 with a 7D... Do you adjust for the larger focal? You set an average between the AFMA number for 24mm and the number for the 70mm.


Any comments will be very useful to me... I have to AFMA a lot of lens with my 7D and my 5D III


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 7, 2013)

Mencho(22) said:


> Old Shooter said:
> 
> 
> > miah,
> ...



I test all my lenses at both 25x and 50x the focal length (even my 600mm lens + 1.4xIII - tested at 21 m and 42 m). For zoom lenses, I test at both ends of the zoom, and at 1-3 intermediate focal lengths (depending on zoom range, e.g. 1 intermediate focal length for a 2-3x zoom like the 16-35 or 70-200, 2 for a 4x zoom like the 24-105 or 100-400, 3 for a super zoom like the 28-300). 

Choosing an AFMA value is always a compromise, even when you can enter 2 values like on the 2012 bodies - subject distance and zoom setting affect it. The more data I have, the better compromise judgement I can make, taking into account distances at which I commonly shoot and DoF at those distances.


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## 2trout (Jan 7, 2013)

great topic!
Waiting to have my 5D MKII returned from service, will get FoCal then, be interesting to see what can be done with my EF 100-400.


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## Old Shooter (Jan 8, 2013)

Mencho(22) said:


> Old Shooter said:
> 
> 
> > miah,
> ...



Mencho,

The way I understand it, FoCal uses the target at the "zoom" image to determine quality and that drives the score. If you are doing it properly, you should get a green check mark at normal setting. Then, go to zoom and see if you also have the same check mark. The two cases where I went from a red "X" to a green check, one was a slight targeting adjustment and the other I was too close (the program could not detect the edges of the target)...


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## AlanF (Jan 8, 2013)

Yesterday I downloaded FoCal Pro to calibrate my new 5D3. It was an utter pain trying to focus by 600mm on the centre of the target using my cheap Manfrotto tripod, and we don't have concrete floors etc. The repeat runs were somewhat erratic. Today, I adapted the FoCal system to work under suboptimal conditions, which I recommend. First, find a sturdy cardboard box the size of A4 paper or its US equivalent.
1. Print the Reiken target, and glue it to the face of the box.
2. Put a screw or a nail in the side of the box at about 2/3rds of the height at the back.
3. Rest a ruler with horizontal lines facing you so it slopes towards you at about 30 deg.
4. Focus on the Reiken target. Shoot a couple, and vary the AFMA so you see when the line level to the face is the best in focus.

The results were within the spread of the semi-automatic method using the program.


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## AlanF (Jan 8, 2013)

I wasn't joking.


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## Marsu42 (Jan 8, 2013)

AlanF said:


> The results were within the spread of the semi-automatic method using the program.



That's a great advice & thanks for the pic - but watch out for Reikan employees setting fire to your car :->


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 8, 2013)

FWIW, I got good results with FoCal with 600mm (at 30 m and 15 m) and 840mm (600+1.4x, at 42 m and 21 m)...also outdoors, but I had a very stable RRS tripod/gimbal and I added some lighting (with a long extension cord!) to the sunlight for ~15 EV as reported by FoCal, meaning high shutter speeds >1/1000 s even at f/5.6. I haven't done the 600 + 2x combo yet (seems quite sharp at AFMA = 0, and the longest sight line on my property is ~50 m - I need to find a vacant football field, and maybe a helper and a set of walkie-talkies for target alignment  ).



AlanF said:


> I wasn't joking.



You've built yourself an economical LensAlign tool. ;D

Here's my DIY schematic:


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## Marsu42 (Jan 8, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> Here's my DIY schematic



I take it since the pic is "AFMA_Image4.jpg" there are others - or is the a good "do it yourself" site on this? I haven't read up on this since my 60d hasn't got afma (thanks, Canon!) but now that I'll get a ff I'd like a good solution for af adjustment w/o spending additional money.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 8, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Here's my DIY schematic
> ...



From here: http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Photography-Tips/AF-Microadjustment-Tips.aspx

Written before FoCal was available, I use FoCal now...


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## Studio1930 (Jan 8, 2013)

Another Focal pro user here. It works better than any other method I have tried. Great for my 1D4 and 1DX.


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## AudioGlenn (Jan 10, 2013)

@Neuro: Is the-digital-picture.com YOUR site?


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 10, 2013)

AudioGlenn said:


> @Neuro: Is the-digital-picture.com YOUR site?



Goodness, no. Bryan Carnathan run's it...


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## AudioGlenn (Jan 11, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> AudioGlenn said:
> 
> 
> > @Neuro: Is the-digital-picture.com YOUR site?
> ...



oh ok. just wondering. I go there all the time to check out lens reviews. 

anyways, thanks for always having great input on the forum. I notice your replies on almost everything I read on here!


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## Marsu42 (Feb 22, 2013)

Studio1930 said:


> Another Focal pro user here. It works better than any other method I have tried.



Fyi: Another Magic Lantern user here, and the latest dev build has *automatic afma tuning* (for the time being 5d2, but I'm sure other cameras will follow)  ... https://bitbucket.org/hudson/magic-lantern/commits/6cf3c98700f4b659215d14ede8d6fe15eeca2e81


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## Hobby Shooter (Feb 22, 2013)

I have been thinking of this for a while and reading up on it a bit. Thanks Neuro for that great article, I will study it closer as I just read it briefly now.

However, I might not have time and energy to do this on my gear. I have a 5D3 and 3 L-lenses. Is this possible to have done through a Canon dealer? Is it very expensive? I find my 70-200 f/2.8L MkII IS to be extremely sharp already, I am very happy with my 35L, the 24-105 I sometimes feel would need an adjustment, but that might come down to user error and the AF not being super fast.


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## picturesbyme (Feb 24, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> Studio1930 said:
> 
> 
> > Another Focal pro user here. It works better than any other method I have tried.
> ...



Hi Marsu, I looked it up and it seems very interesting. (youtu.be/7zE50jCUPhM)
and automated on ML sounds really promising:

http://youtu.be/58enf18Q0l4


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## killswitch (Feb 24, 2013)

This is great stuff from ML. Thanks for sharing.

In regards to Focal's AFMA, at what aperture should you perform Focal's AFMA test? I think i had it wide open during the test, is that ok or are we supposed to stop it down to something smaller like 5.6 or 8?


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## Old Shooter (Feb 24, 2013)

killswitch said:


> This is great stuff from ML. Thanks for sharing.
> 
> In regards to Focal's AFMA, at what aperture should you perform Focal's AFMA test? I think i had it wide open during the test, is that ok or are we supposed to stop it down to something smaller like 5.6 or 8?



Generally test wide open... In fact, only the Pro version let's you select f/stops other than wide open...


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## killswitch (Feb 25, 2013)

Old Shooter said:


> killswitch said:
> 
> 
> > This is great stuff from ML. Thanks for sharing.
> ...



Thanks ^_^


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## digital paradise (Feb 25, 2013)

killswitch said:


> Old Shooter said:
> 
> 
> > killswitch said:
> ...



Yep. 5.8 or 8 defeats the purpose because you will have a deep DOF and you will likely not notice a focus issue. Wide open is where you are going to see any issues.


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