# Canon EOS 80D Talk [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 17, 2015)

```
We’ve received a lot of mentions in regards to a replacement of the EOS 70D, which was announced in July of 2013. None of the specifications lists we’ve received seem all that likely, so we’re writing those ones off.</p>
<p>What we do know is we should expect a big megapixel increase over the 20.2mp of the Canon EOS 70D. We’ve been told by a good source that the camera will likely sit between 28 – 34mp when the final specs are decided upon. It appears that in the last 6 months, Canon has decided megapixels matter again. The same source said we could see an announcement in late 2015.</p>
<p>I think the <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/patent-canon-ef-s-15-53mm-f2-8-4/">recent patent for an EF-S 15-50 f/2.8-4 IS</a> could potentially bring a faster kit lens option to the next releases of APS-C camera bodies.</p>
<p>A lot of the the other information we’ve received come from unknown sources that mention features like, silent electronic shutter mode, color top LCD that can display information like the histogram, and voice control. All of these seem unlikely, but may make their rounds around the web.</p>
<p>More to come…</p>
```


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## ScottyP (Sep 17, 2015)

Interesting.

If it has an electronic shutter ability, silence is not my interest in it. Could that also give a flash sync speed faster than the 1/200 to 1/250 we usually see?


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## MintChocs (Sep 17, 2015)

Sounds like the usual Canon way, more pixels, more bells and whistles but nothing new in the sensor department. I do wonder what the price will be as this market segment is very competitive.


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## Jet20 (Sep 17, 2015)

Count me out then! The 70D does not need more pixels you won't even see with typical prosumer lenses used with this class of cameras, and more toy features, but better high ISO quality (ISO-1600 is a marked step down from the 60D - whatever the reviews say -, and this only for a 2MP increase!) and a return to better build quality, which was also much better in the 60D. My 8 month old 70D looks worse than my 60D after 4 years of use now!

P.S. If Canon wants to go "fun" with the xxD line, I'll gladly buy a future 7D Mark III IF it includes a swivel screen!


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## Maximilian (Sep 17, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> ... Canon has decided megapixels matter again. ...


Yes! They do! : : :

But quality (readout, noise, high/low ISO) above quantity. 

Canon, please don't mess that up. First make them better then make them more.


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## tomscott (Sep 17, 2015)

34mp in apsc… that can't be anything but bad :-\


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## Sunnystate (Sep 17, 2015)

At least they recognized that they have to do something, even if is still stubbornly wrong concept!

For the past 8 years they were rewrapping same wafers in different bodies and hopping nobody will notice. Some still chose to not notice 

Life is really to short to wait for some company to move on, that's like 1/4th of your active professional life..


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## douglaurent (Sep 17, 2015)

Probably this is part 20 of Canon's 2008 style 1080p DSLRs.


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## King Eyre (Sep 17, 2015)

No one I know wants more megapixels.......my 1Dx now has probably the lowest MP count in the whole Canon range yet it's the most expensive!!!!...and I don't hear any 1 Dx owners complaining!

That's why the 7D2 got pretty mixed reviews...would have been much better with say 16 MP and a better noise performance....when will they learn?

The only people that want more are the people that don't know any better!!!...

George.


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## privatebydesign (Sep 17, 2015)

King Eyre said:


> No one I know wants more megapixels.......my 1Dx now has probably the lowest MP count in the whole Canon range yet it's the most expensive!!!!...and I don't hear any 1 Dx owners complaining!
> 
> That's why the 7D2 got pretty mixed reviews...would have been much better with say 16 MP and a better noise performance....when will they learn?
> 
> ...



I am not a 1DX owner specifically because the MP count is too low. If the 1DX MkII isn't 22+ then I won't be buying that either, and yes, I am in the $6,000+ body market segment and I do know better.

Plenty of people are putting all 50MP from the 5DS/R's to good use, many people who didn't think they would are enjoying the camera immensely. One thing I have noticed over the years, Canon seem to know what we actually want better than we do ourselves, which makes sense when you consider how much they spend finding out, but have you noticed how people are dismissive of a camera spec from Canon when it is announced but then they sell well and people love them?


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## King Eyre (Sep 17, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> King Eyre said:
> 
> 
> > No one I know wants more megapixels.......my 1Dx now has probably the lowest MP count in the whole Canon range yet it's the most expensive!!!!...and I don't hear any 1 Dx owners complaining!
> ...



OK well if you need 50 MP for your kind of photography, fine, you are probably landscape or studio but not I suspect, wildlife or sports, and for these applications better low noise ISO and FPS are more significant, but form my experience here, e.g. the 7D2, I know personally 4 people who have sold them and have gone to a 1D4 instead...it's a bit horses for courses, but I think the whole MP thing is overblown.

Not sure that the increase from 18 to 22 MP would make an appreciable difference really?


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## jeffa4444 (Sep 17, 2015)

Clearly Canon needs to be "inventive" again, camera sales declines will not be thwarted by tiny incremental changes the consumer is used to the bigger changes they see in Smartphones. The Rebel / consumer DSLRs are very different from the enthusiast, prosumer, pro marketplace many people I know with one of these cameras only have the lens they got with the camera and no other accessories so moving people up from Smartphones requires Smartphone thinking in terms of access to pictures, fun added and ease of use. The 70D bridges the divide so needs to be appealing to a broad group of people who are looking for more from their hobby but are more demanding than the SL1 user.


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## privatebydesign (Sep 17, 2015)

King Eyre said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > King Eyre said:
> ...



No, I don't need or want 50MP, but I do want and need more than 18, I currently use 21 and I use every single one of them. One of the biggest surprises for the 5DS/R has been the interest wildlife shooters have had for it, the feather and fur detail they are showing has been a big step forward for many so be careful with your typecasting.

The 7D MkII vs 1D MkIV is a wash, particularly if you normalise the output, the 1D MkIV is a bigger sensor that needs bigger lenses for the same framing and the AF is better in the 7D MkII. There is a very good reason the 1D MkIV prices, which held up for a long time, have plummeted since the 7D MkII came out. Just like the 1DS MkIII held its value for a long time, until the 5D MkIII came out, the truth is the 5D MkIII is a more capable all round camera.


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## bcflood (Sep 17, 2015)

I am hoping that the 80D has increased low-light and low-noise functionality, especially when compared with the D7200. With those and a few feature upgrades, I will certainly add one to my collection. I didn't see the 70D as enough of an improvement over other cameras to consider one. 

It will be interesting to see how the 80D features stack up against the 6D II to see which has the stronger allure to it.


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## tomscott (Sep 17, 2015)

Its fair to say that an increase in the 1DX MP is obvious and it would be very useful but the sensor is so much bigger it can cope with the ramp up. I'm sure canon can make an image processor powerful enough to create 14fps at say 28mp its the shutter that is the problem when it comes to the fps but then those file sizes and the throughput may make a warm camera.

The 5DS and R have well trumped their expectation and are great cameras in so many more fields than landscape and if that is the scope of your mind then I would tell you to go out and shoot with one, its pretty much the same camera as the 5DMKIII with 1 less fps a slower burst and a little less low light capability, I have my 5DMKIII capped to 6400ISO and from the files I've looked at at 3200iso on the 5DS and R I wouldn't hesitate to use it. With more than twice the resolution its amazing!! Not the slouch and noisy beast it was slated as when it was released.

The 5DMKIII in my opinion is one of the best all round cameras ever made and by adding twice the pixels most certainly makes it useful in a lot of situations as it has the light gathering of a full frame sensor and a similar pixel pitch to the crop cameras which birders have been wanting for many many years. You just have to hone your skills and shoot at the right moment to get the images you desire rather than just machine-gunning like the 7D and 1DX cameras.

But 34mp on a crop sensor when they are already pretty noisy almost doubling the resolution the pixel pitch will be redic… but if Canons new rumoured tech is as good as its rumoured to be we may well be expecting some great innovation from them and the wait will most certainly be worth it and the crown put back where it belongs.


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## Luds34 (Sep 17, 2015)

Jet20 said:


> Count me out then! The 70D does not need more pixels you won't even see with typical prosumer lenses used with this class of cameras, and more toy features, but better high ISO quality (ISO-1600 is a marked step down from the 60D - whatever the reviews say -, and this only for a 2MP increase!)



Respectfully disagree. As an owner of a 70D and multiple cameras that had the same old 18MP sensor in it, I'd say one of biggest differences (besides the awesome DPAF) was the high ISO ability. The 70D can shoot ISO 6400 (obviously not ideal) but trying to pull that off on my M or old T2i just fell apart badly. And it's less the noise, it's the color and blue fringing in the corners, etc. Nope, the 20 MP 70D sensor was a long overdue step up from the one in your 60D.


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## TeT (Sep 17, 2015)

Just what I want in my next enthisumer camera; a Talking Histogram...


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## Luds34 (Sep 17, 2015)

All this talk about megapixels... keep in mind you have to actually quadruple the megapixels to double the resolution.

With that said, I agree, on crop they probably shouldn't be pushing for too many more pixels, especially if the trade off is more noise.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Sep 17, 2015)

In my opinion, have 34 megapixel on an APS-C sensor only brings problems.  We must remember that 70D had only a slight improvement at high ISO, and DUAL PIXEL AF occupies light gathering areas on the sensor. 

It seems just a bad rumor.


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## JonAustin (Sep 17, 2015)

I'm all for those folks who want / need higher-resolution sensors, and the manufacturers that give them what they want.

But we don't all want or need that many pixels. For my purposes, the 12mp of my original 5D was (and still is) all I need. I bought a 5DIII for its improved autofocus system and better ergonomics, and tried using it in mRAW mode, but was dissatisfied with the image quality. So I'm using it in full RAW mode, dealing with the larger storage requirements and slower processing times, and typically downsampling the images prior to print or publishing. 

But I wish Canon would adopt a dual product line strategy: a high-resolution line (which now appears to be 50mp +) and a lower-resolution line (that stays around 20mp or so), and develops both lines with the latest Digic processors, autofocus tech, etc.


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## Sporgon (Sep 17, 2015)

I was processing some old 5D files on my latest computer and it was so _sweet_. Ping, and it was done. The files I've seen from the 5Ds have been better than I expected - even at small enlargement and with any lenses, but is the compromise of much greater storage space and slower processing worth it for those that shoot hundreds of frames at an event ? I'm still not sure. 

Would the majority of xxD users really want 34 MP ? I'd be surprised. Half makes me wonder if Canon isn't putting a little misinformation out there.


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## gsealy (Sep 17, 2015)

I look at the 70D as an advanced, upscaled Rebel. I have a 650D (T4i Rebel) and I use the heck out of it for all sorts of things even though I have other more expensive Canon cameras. But the 70D is a step up from it. I have been impressed with the videos shot with the 70D and the DPAF truly has been a game changer. I always recommend the 70D to friends of mine because it seems to be so versatile, has fairly good quality, and yet not too expensive. I do think that many posters have the right idea in that a lot more MP in a 80D is not as useful and valuable as better ISO performance. The 70D has been marketed by Canon as a video/movie creation machine. So it seems to me that it would be best to be able to create great video in more varied conditions. It is harder to get rid of noise in video than it is in a single photograph. So why not reduce the noise in the first place so that consumers can shoot better indoor birthday parties and other events?


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## ahsanford (Sep 17, 2015)

If true (this is a CR1 after all), I see this as a major step up in prominence for the 80D. Consider, the 70D was more of a tech showcase as the first DPAF camera, but it sat clearly behind the (later-released) 7D2 in virtually every respect: burst, build quality, AF system, etc. It was a very solid but not best in class product. 

But if this 80D announcement turns out to be true: it is almost like saying the _7D2 is to the 1DX_ the same way the _80D is to the 5DS_. The 80D will become the high detail rig for APS-C while the 7D2 will be the all-action rig.

Though, perhaps Canon might do this not to stand out detail-wise over the 7D2 so much as have a clear as day MP count spec bump (whether we want it or not) over the new 24 MP Rebels. Perhaps Canon would do jack up the 80D resolution simply to substantiate it's asking price over the Rebels.

- A


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## 9VIII (Sep 17, 2015)

Did everyone just skip over this section of the interview yesterday?



> MM: What is your need or preference in terms of higher pixel numbers or a higher sensitivity?
> 
> DE: Hmm, that's a fair question. I kind of want both, too. So maybe two cameras, but most of the time I don’t do a lot of fine-art photography where I'd feel the need for a lot of resolution. My shots are honestly more just snapshots and things these days. And more often, I wish that I had cleaner images at very high ISO -- so available light in a restaurant, out after dark -- more often I want that than a lot of megapixels. But on the other hand, if I’m on vacation and shooting landscapes, I want lots of pixels then. If I had to choose just one, though, I would maybe have a 12-megapixel camera with very big pixels.
> 
> MM: That is very nice. Please buy both. <laughter>



We all know Canon is going to produce high megapixel cameras, but it sounds like everyone here is shocked and disgusted when one is rumored, I bet you all hate the A7RII and think the positive press around the Samsung NX1 is just hogwash...
Ok you probably actually do, but at least it shouldn't be surprising.

My body is ready.
Give me ALL THE MEGAPIXELS!!!


(Edit: It makes more sense to quote the whole thing in one shot)


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## 9VIII (Sep 17, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> But if this 80D announcement turns out to be true: it is almost like saying the _7D2 is to the 1DX_ the same way the _80D is to the 5DS_. The 80D will become the high detail rig for APS-C while the 7D2 will be the all-action rig.



Yes, that was my first thought.


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## [email protected] (Sep 17, 2015)

*Canon has strategic interest in the market moving to higher MP*

If Canon can pull it off without loosing too much in noise/image quality, it is very much in their interests to push the required megapixel perceptions.

I'll side-step the debate as to whether more pixels are good or bad (they're good for me), but just point out that with Canon's data transfer rates allowing for 10 frames per second on their second-tier cameras, Nikon cannot compete yet in this realm. 

If they are able to build demand for 50mp cameras that shoot 8 fps - which is roughly double the data rate of the 7D2, Nikon could be sunk in sports/action/wildlife. If they build demand for 120mp cameras shooting 3.5 fps, then Nikon has difficulty in a dozen other fields. 

So, while I like more megapixels, Canon's interests are best served pushing them on us regardless of utility. 

This also has implications for mirrorless considerations. Competitors may see video frame grabbing or rapid mirrorless virtual shutters as an answer to their inability to capture many frames per second in an SLR, the compromise being low megapixel files. To the degree Canon sells high MP as a benefit, it delays that trend's acceptance.


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## Ardo (Sep 17, 2015)

and if it were APSH?
more mpx are needed for competition with smartphone, lvl entry DSLR (next generation Canon XXXD ) need to stay ahead 

sorry for my english


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## ahsanford (Sep 17, 2015)

I, for one, have always questioned the value in having so many price points in SLRs:

XXXXD = Budget
*XXXD* = Rebel
XXD = Enthusiast
*7D* = Prosumer (for the reach/AF/burst obsessed)
*6D* = Prosumer (for the FF IQ obsessed)
*5D* = Pro
*1D* = Flagship

And I think we'd all agree that the bold items above are necessary for Canon as a business, but I've often thought that the XXD line is a bit of an odd duck that Canon _might_ not necessarily need. I realize there are a boatload of enthusiasts on this site that would disagree with me, but ask yourself:


Will people leave Canon if there isn't an $1,100-ish mid/high-level crop option between the the Rebels and the APS-C 'pro' 7D2?


Does Canon sell a great deal of XXD rigs? Many more serious starting photographers upgrading over their first Rebels these days are likely getting a 7D2 or possibly a bargain 6D (whose price really plummeted). 

It used to be that the XXD was a Rebel + top LCD and back wheel ergonomics + AFMA + slightly higher burst. But the Rebel 760D has ever-so-slightly walked upmarket into some of those features.


I just wonder how badly Canon needs an 80D to fit a price point, to help sell more EF glass, etc. One could argue that 4 APS-C price points aren't needed and the 80D might be a project to skip in favor of something else (a dedicated astro rig at a juicy markup, a low MP FF rig expressly for low-light & video a la the a7S line, etc.).

- A


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 17, 2015)

tomscott said:


> 34mp in apsc… that can't be anything but bad :-\



Bad for photos, good for Canon sales and profits. Zillions of consumers will bite, thinking it will actually somehow make their photos better.


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## ahsanford (Sep 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon has strategic interest in the market moving to higher MP*



[email protected] said:


> If they are able to build demand for 50mp cameras that shoot 8 fps - which is roughly double the data rate of the 7D2, Nikon could be sunk in sports/action/wildlife.



Nikon is losing the APS-C wildlife crowd because Canon offers a top-line 'mini-1DX' product line that is rather beastly from an AF, burst and build quality perspective _and Nikon does not offer a similar price point camera._ It's as simple as that.

For whatever reason, and this is no knock on a fine D7200 rig, Nikon would rather offer Budget / 'Rebel' / Enthusiast in APS-C and call it good. Canon sees the 7D line as a big white lens pullthrough opportunity and continues to support a 'pro' APS-C rig, and it's absolutely the right call.

So data throughput is important, but I believe Canon dominates this segment simply because they chose to show up and compete. 

- A


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## 9VIII (Sep 17, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> ...Zillions of consumers will bite, thinking it will actually somehow make their photos better.



And in certain situations they'd be right.
Just because a camera isn't made for you doesn't mean it's useless.

Quite frankly having this discussion about the 80D is kind of silly, that's well above "consumer level", if you're going to pretend to look out for consumers you should be complaining that there isn't a 12MP Rebel.
Not to mention if you want low light performance looking to a crop sensor is just a waste of your time. You can have a 6D for the same amount of money. The low light crowd is well served, high density sensors are actually something new as opposed to serving the same crowd that Canon has been tightly focused on for nearly a decade now.


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## LonelyBoy (Sep 17, 2015)

tomscott said:


> 34mp in apsc… that can't be anything but bad :-\



How many would have said that about 20-24mpx a decade ago?


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## ahsanford (Sep 17, 2015)

LonelyBoy said:


> tomscott said:
> 
> 
> > 34mp in apsc… that can't be anything but bad :-\
> ...



That might have been due to Canon jamming 18 MP sensors into every APS-C body for (seemingly) a decade. :

- A


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## endiendo (Sep 17, 2015)

I don't understand the people complaining about too big files.. 
hey, when you buy a 2000$ camera with one or more 800$ lenses.. what is the problem when you need a few harddrives of a few To for.. say 250 $..
and. what is the problem to buy a decent top-computer (core i7, 16 gb ram, 256 gb ssd) that costs 1200 $ (without screen) ?

Many have a total of 4000 or 5000 $ photo equipment.. and complaining about buying 300$ - 10 To storage ? hey, come on guys... 

If you are not happy with that, stay with a 8 Mpx point and shoot.. and only jpg..


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## 9VIII (Sep 17, 2015)

endiendo said:


> I don't understand the people complaining about too big files..
> hey, when you buy a 2000$ camera with one or more 800$ lenses.. what is the problem when you need a few harddrives of a few To for.. say 250 $..
> and. what is the problem to buy a decent top-computer (core i7, 16 gb ram, 256 gb ssd) that costs 1200 $ (without screen) ?
> 
> ...



The issue is that when a professional comes home with thousands of photos, transfer and processing speed is of critical importance. I've read that a lot of people actually store every single photo that they keep, some of them with redundancy, and are basically perpetually buying hard drives.
So double the file size could mean wasting eight hours a week waiting for transfers/processing instead of four, and spending $1,000 a year on hard drives instead of $500 a year (I have no idea what the actual figures are, but hard drives haven't come down in price for the last five years, so I know the situation isn't good).
From a business perspective large files are a horrible thing.

But that doesn't change the rest of my points, that we already have great cameras for professionals, and a 34MP 80D would be something entirely new, and there is a market for it.
People around here just like to imagine that Canon is going to put the 5Ds sensor in every body from here on out so that they can rage about it.


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## rrcphoto (Sep 17, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> We’ve received a lot of mentions in regards to a replacement of the EOS 70D, which was announced in July of 2013. None of the specifications lists we’ve received seem all that likely, so we’re writing those ones off.</p>
> <p>What we do know is we should expect a big megapixel increase over the 20.2mp of the Canon EOS 70D. We’ve been told by a good source that the camera will likely sit between 28 – 34mp when the final specs are decided upon.



I get a sneaking suspicion that canon feels they made a sensor breakthrough in this upcoming sensor generation.

canon very rarely releases a camera with worse image quality, even though per pixel quality may be at par. if they feel they can make the jump from 24-> 32mp and maintain the per pixel, that's good news. means per image will most certainly increase because of it.

I have no qualms about more pixels - bring them on!

for those that complain .. learn how to process digital images.


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## Etienne (Sep 17, 2015)

endiendo said:


> I don't understand the people complaining about too big files..
> hey, when you buy a 2000$ camera with one or more 800$ lenses.. what is the problem when you need a few harddrives of a few To for.. say 250 $..
> and. what is the problem to buy a decent top-computer (core i7, 16 gb ram, 256 gb ssd) that costs 1200 $ (without screen) ?
> 
> ...



Processing time is a bigger problem than storage space.

Also ... higher resolution should be able to deliver lower noise images at downscaled size of a low mpixel sensor. Downscaling reduces noise, and noise reduction software causes a loss of detail, so having extra resolution should give a better image even when converted to say 18 MP. The big problem is if the noise is patterned. That is impossible to correct


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## rrcphoto (Sep 17, 2015)

9VIII said:


> endiendo said:
> 
> 
> > I don't understand the people complaining about too big files..
> ...



you must have nothing better to do in life.

I pop a card into the computer and go walk away and do other things.

if your computer can't handle a 32MP raw, I suggest upgrading.

hard drives cost around $50/TB nowadays. so if you're spending $500 now on hard drives, that would be around 10TB or data per year, which conservatively is around 300,000 raw images per year.

if you are professionally shooting 1000 images per day, you have bigger challenges than simply hard drives.

and can probably afford the increase of resolution.

or you shoot mRAW.


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## rrcphoto (Sep 17, 2015)

Etienne said:


> endiendo said:
> 
> 
> > I don't understand the people complaining about too big files..
> ...



yes - for some they just skip this step - take a higher resolution image, NR it using credible software and then downscale it - you'll have a much better image.

luckily the banding demons have been vanquished.


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## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2015)

Just do it Canon... I care less on the specs unless it's really a breakthrough thing but I'm just waiting for 80D so that 70D can be sold at a lower price.


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## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon has strategic interest in the market moving to higher MP*



dilbert said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



I'm sorry but I can't help but react from your generalization. Do you have any proof on this? If not, then did you go to all those holiday places and properly took a scan of all the cameras being used by those people?


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## ahsanford (Sep 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon has strategic interest in the market moving to higher MP*



dilbert said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Agree. But that's the Rebel/D5500 crowd, not the 70D/D7200 crowd. Why tourists/vacationers are choosing Nikon over Canon comes down to soccer mom / hockey dad shoppers finding a better value in the overall feature set per dollar -- they aren't trolling DXO for the latest sensor scores. 

I just don't think the 70D/80D offering level is a huge chunk of casual shooters. It screams 'I paid more for this rig because I wanted AFMA, a top LCD, an intervalometer, a fancy AF system, etc.', i.e _enthusiast_ -- not 'Dave from accounting on holiday'.

- A


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## ahsanford (Sep 17, 2015)

*Re: Canon has strategic interest in the market moving to higher MP*



dilbert said:


> verysimplejason said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Anecdotally from my perspective, I'll back Dilbert up. I am like a hawk eyeballing everyone's gear at touristy places. I simply see more Nikon D5x00 cameras than I see Canon Rebels these days, and non-trivially so. A few years back it was the other way around.

But no, I have no hard data to share. I believe Canon T#i cameras absolutely crush on sales aggregators like Amazon, but it's hard to sift through that intelligently -- it's just a tote board of best selling but with no timeframe, context, etc.

- A


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## verysimplejason (Sep 18, 2015)

*Re: Canon has strategic interest in the market moving to higher MP*



ahsanford said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > verysimplejason said:
> ...



Then these claims are just unintelligent conclusions designed to convince others to agree with you. Correct? Shouldn't it be more appropriate to have a more concrete proof as basis of our views?


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## mkabi (Sep 18, 2015)

*Re: Canon has strategic interest in the market moving to higher MP*



verysimplejason said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



I've actually seen something similar. Literally a year ago, may be even 2, I saw a rebel in everybody's hand (mainly around the neck of every uncle Tom, by the way I'm hindu so it would be something along the lines of Uncle Kumar), especially at weddings. I went to a wedding on Aug. 29 of this year... it was raided by Nikons (every Uncle Kumar had a Nikon around his neck). The professional photographers were still using Canon and L glass... so I didn't care what the Uncle Kumars were doing. 

I've sort of noticed this trend when I went to my local camera store... 2 of those occasions within this summer, btw.. brown people notice brown people... I noticed that my people were not only eyeing Nikon, but asking the clerk questions and intent on buying Nikon equipment. Meanwhile, I was eyeing the Canon and Sony station.

In terms of "concrete" proof... hmmm may be I can get my cousins wedding video from 2 years ago and then another copy of the recent wedding?


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## 9VIII (Sep 18, 2015)

rrcphoto said:


> or you shoot mRAW.



Just for that everything else you said is irrelevant. It's actually pretty funny.


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## Luds34 (Sep 18, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



This is a joke right? Whatever megapixel number is put on a cell phone is pure marketing BS anyway. Aka, they are waaaay too high and the realistic effective MP is much lower. So you get the worse of all worlds, large file sizes and crappy actual resolution and detail. Not to mention ergonomics, but I won't waste time/energy there.


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## whothafunk (Sep 18, 2015)

*Re: Canon has strategic interest in the market moving to higher MP*



dilbert said:


> And Canon is losing the APS-C holiday/travel crowd. Nearly everyone else I've seen on holiday in the last week has had a Nikon APS-C camera. One had a mirrorless.


Not in Europe. I've been backpacking through whole Portugal for 25 days and 99% of tourist had a rebel or xxD Canon (a small number had 6D/5D).

I also visited Italy and Spain for 3 weeks in total and same story applies there.


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## Bennymiata (Sep 18, 2015)

I think the XXd line is very important for Canon.
I currently have a 70d and had a 60d before that, and I've seen lots of 60 and 70Ds floating around.

I mainly use my 70d for video (and use my 5d3 for stills) and according to a couple of camerashop salesmen, DPAF is a HUGE selling point for most mums and dads as it makes videoing little Joey running around, so much easier.

I never met a megapixel I didn't like, and for me, the more the better.
I do occasional weddings and have 2000 photos to upload etc (all in raw), as well as lots of video, and using a good USB3 card reader, the cards dowload in a few minutes. I use an HP Workstation and have no problem processing the raw files either, so if too many mpxls are a problem for you, get a better computer.
These days, your computer IS an important part of your photography gear, so don't skimp. You update your bodies every few years, and you should also keep your computer up to date too.


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## ahsanford (Sep 18, 2015)

*Re: Canon has strategic interest in the market moving to higher MP*



verysimplejason said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Anecdotally from my perspective, I'll back Dilbert up. I am like a hawk eyeballing everyone's gear at touristy places. I simply see more Nikon D5x00 cameras than I see Canon Rebels these days, and non-trivially so. A few years back it was the other way around.
> ...



Come now. Read all the red above and ask yourself what 'claim' I made. 

I'm sharing my opinion, that's all -- how often do people selling you something offer clear faults in their methods like I just did? I am not trying to convince anyone of anything. 

Again, it's just my perspective, and I welcome hard data, honestly. I could very well be wrong.

- A


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## Sporgon (Sep 18, 2015)

Luds34 said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > Sporgon said:
> ...



I didn't see this because I'm ignoring dilbert. I am guessing that as time progresses, and more people have had access to (proper) cameras in excess of about 12 MP, people are becoming more educated in how many MP they need to produce potentially superb images. As time goes on fewer people will have the child-like simplicity of dilbert in thinking "if it's got more MP it's better". The iPhone 6 is very good in what it does, but comparing the versatility with a 70D is......well, let's not go there.


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## Sporgon (Sep 18, 2015)

9VIII said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > or you shoot mRAW.
> ...



Yes, bit of a whoopsies there. M and s raw are fine for saving file size, and I am perfectly happy with the IQ if I use DPP to convert, but they take a lot longer to convert than normal files, so in terms of workflow speed they can be a pain if you have enough of them.


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## JohanCruyff (Sep 18, 2015)

The megapixel debate leads my thoughts towards a tool that I'd like to put in my wish-list: the EOS 6DMark II.
I hope it won't exceed 22-24Mpixel, but if the "enthusiast APS-C" delivers 28 or more, I'm afraid the "basic Full Frame" (6DMark II) will also have (about) 30 Megapixels, just like today (both 70D and 6D offer 20 Mpx).


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## Jet20 (Sep 18, 2015)

Luds34 said:


> Jet20 said:
> 
> 
> > Count me out then! The 70D does not need more pixels you won't even see with typical prosumer lenses used with this class of cameras, and more toy features, but better high ISO quality (ISO-1600 is a marked step down from the 60D - whatever the reviews say -, and this only for a 2MP increase!)
> ...



Your experience does not necessarily contradict mine. It is possible that the 70D is capable of ultra high ISO output and does so better than the 60D. I wouldn't know because in either case the quality is too low for my uses. However, I was saying specifically that ISO 1600 quality is worse on the 70D than on 60D and I do care about that since it is the auto ISO maximum I use and routinely have to fall back to in low light to keep the shutter speeds I need.


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## whothafunk (Sep 18, 2015)

And I bet my money on 24MP sensor for 80D (just like in latest rebels), "same-MP-count-but-not-exactly-the-same-sensor" as with the 70D - 7D2 scenario. 

It's gonna have a Digic6+ or Digic 7 processor, and for that, it's gonna have a slightly better noise handling. 

Mark my words, as I'll be back requoting myself once it's released.


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## LonelyBoy (Sep 18, 2015)

Sporgon said:


> I didn't see this because I'm ignoring dilbert. I am guessing that as time progresses, and more people have had access to (proper) cameras in excess of about 12 MP, people are becoming more educated in how many MP they need to produce potentially superb images. As time goes on fewer people will have the child-like simplicity of dilbert in thinking "if it's got more MP it's better". The iPhone 6 is very good in what it does, but comparing the versatility with a 70D is......well, let's not go there.



Really? I still see people thinking their cell phone at Xmpx takes equally good photos as a DSLR of Xmpx. The whole "taken on an iPhone 6" print campaign certainly doesn't dissuade this idea.

I don't even think it's about 12mpx - my OLD D40 at 6mpx could get better results than a modern smartphone.


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## Sporgon (Sep 18, 2015)

LonelyBoy said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > I didn't see this because I'm ignoring dilbert. I am guessing that as time progresses, and more people have had access to (proper) cameras in excess of about 12 MP, people are becoming more educated in how many MP they need to produce potentially superb images. As time goes on fewer people will have the child-like simplicity of dilbert in thinking "if it's got more MP it's better". The iPhone 6 is very good in what it does, but comparing the versatility with a 70D is......well, let's not go there.
> ...



For those people it probably does produce pictures that are equally good, perhaps even better. But those types of cameras have a fairy small window of opportunity to produce decent quality, photographically speaking, when compared with a 'proper' camera. Any reasonably capable person who understands the important principles of photography would be able to produce excellent images for the "taken on an iPhone", but you'd have to choose your moment according.


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## jeffa4444 (Sep 18, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


Dilbert when youve left your 70D at home and taken your 30MP Smartphone and you see that elusive Kingfisher and realise its just a dot on the screen then you remember why you should have taken the 70D. 
Ive been part of an experiment at our camera club taking one photo for 365 days on my iPhone 6 I cannot tell you how many times I wanted to throw it in the bin because I cannot frame the shot I want.


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## jeffa4444 (Sep 18, 2015)

Two points to add to the thread:- 

In Cornwall at the Lizard I was talking to photographers photographing seals, they saw I had a full-frame camera and said forget it if you want more keepers you need a crop camera. 

This week at our camera club we had an editor from a leading photographic magazine and various photographs he had shot from a selection of cameras including the Canon 5DS R. The 5DS R shots were landscapes taken on a tripod and the prints were A3 they sat side by side with A3 prints from a medium format 50MP Pentax camera and as hard as I tried I could not see any quality differences, the prints were all high grade art gloss papers and looked stunning. 

The moral of the story for me is equipment is designed to suit a purpose, its not one size fits all and unlike some on the thread the more choices we have the better because were all different.


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## Ebrahim Saadawi (Sep 18, 2015)

Oh lord the ''*I* need MP'' vs ''*I *don't need MP'' war. 

Guess what? you have two different needs. 

Amazing concept ha? 

That two people shoot high resolution fine detail art and the other shoots high ISO lowlight sports/journalism. 

It's a mind-boggling concept I know. 

Never thought people had different needs.


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## Luds34 (Sep 18, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Luds34 said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



You seem to contradict yourself, even in your own post. First you basically say, a 20 MP is a tough sell when people have 30 MP phones (implying megapixels matter to average consumer). Then you follow up and say people don't care about image size. And then back to eliminating DSLRs that don't have enough MP.

Which is it?

Like I said before, MP on phone is a gimicky marketing thing, catching some uneducated consumers that more must be better. However, the reality is that I think a majority of (non photography enthusiast) adults, without really knowing the technical reasons why, are going to know that a "real" camera is going to be capable of taking much better photos then their cell phones.


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## Luds34 (Sep 18, 2015)

Jet20 said:


> Luds34 said:
> 
> 
> > Jet20 said:
> ...



I'll concede at ISO 800 and 1600 it is really close. My feel has been though that the newer 20 MP sensor is better at those ISOs as well. However, noise patterns, etc. can be somewhat subjective so it could just be personal preference on both of our parts.


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## ishdakuteb (Sep 18, 2015)

dilbert said:


> If the G3X can offer close to equivalent IQ to the T6i (I think it was this model) on a much smaller sensor (albeit from Sony), why is more (and thus smaller) megapixels necessarily bad?
> 
> But as you and others are saying "bad", it effectively means that there is no confidence in Canon to produce a better (in terms of IQ) sensor than they already do and especially not one with smaller pixels.
> 
> ...



1. How do you know that Canon G3X's sensor is made by Sony?
2. Have you bought your new Sony A7R II yet? Still no confidence in Sony helping you to produce better images (after number of years taking crap images with Canon cameras)? (Note: I did copy, paste and modify your phrase )
3. Sony has acquired number of sensor companies, camera companies... Not that Sony, itself, performs RDT&E...

Note: If you want to see more images that I manage myself to captured with Canon gears (landscape, journalism, and portraits), let me know... You still remember and know why I learn landscape right?


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## roxics (Sep 18, 2015)

It needs 4K video and a headphone jack. It's the only semi-pro DSLR they make with a flip out screen.


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## FramerMCB (Sep 18, 2015)

I find it somewhat amusing how many people posting on this forum, and not just to this particular story, are spending time bashing CANON and their products - especially ones that have not even been introduced but are merely...rumors.

The old adage still rings true today, "the negative Nellie's will always be louder than the people who are happy." I have a response for those of you who are chronic complainers: switch camera brands! And go complain on some other brand's forum site.

I like Canon products. I like how they have continued to offer a significant number of Camera models with different feature sets geared towards a broad range of consumers that also have a broad range of shooting styles/subjects - from pros, semi-pros, thru hobbyists of all levels. Etc. That all have vastly different shooting/equipment needs. Canon also continues to improve and grow/refresh their lens line-up. Keep in mind that technological advancement/improvements typically require a serious amount of capital investment, and with Canon's broad range of products, I think they do a commendable job with their line-up. 

Just because I like Canon doesn't mean I don't have an opinion on individual products they release. But I have never been upset with a Canon product I have purchased - whether new or used. I welcome, and look forward to the next model in their XXD line-up, whatever it is. 
Caveat: I own a 40D and more recently purchased a 7D Mk I (from a friend who upgraded to the Mk II). So, I'm not an equipment-heavy photographer either.


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## LonelyBoy (Sep 18, 2015)

Sporgon said:


> For those people it probably does produce pictures that are equally good, perhaps even better. But those types of cameras have a fairy small window of opportunity to produce decent quality, photographically speaking, when compared with a 'proper' camera. Any reasonably capable person who understands the important principles of photography would be able to produce excellent images for the "taken on an iPhone", but you'd have to choose your moment according.



I think you misunderstood me - I meant I'd rather use a 6mpx DSLR than a 12 (or 18) mpx smartphone. Precisely because, yes, it forces you to a given focal length and decidedly sluggish shutter.


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## 9VIII (Sep 19, 2015)

FramerMCB said:


> The old adage still rings true today, "the negative Nellie's will always be louder than the people who are happy." I have a response for those of you who are chronic complainers: switch camera brands! And go complain on some other brand's forum site.



Agreed.

We've actually had a bit of success with that, Jrista hasn't posted in a while, and I'm pretty sure he's happily snapping pictures with a Sony camera now.

On the up side, this forum is popular enough that compared to most other forums the level of discussion here is fantastic, at least from a technical point of view.


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## Don Haines (Sep 19, 2015)

jeffa4444 said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > Sporgon said:
> ...


Funny you should post this now......
I walked outside yesterday and saw a fox. I snapped the first picture with my phone, then went back inside for my Canon and took the second picture.


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## Sporgon (Sep 19, 2015)

LonelyBoy said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > For those people it probably does produce pictures that are equally good, perhaps even better. But those types of cameras have a fairy small window of opportunity to produce decent quality, photographically speaking, when compared with a 'proper' camera. Any reasonably capable person who understands the important principles of photography would be able to produce excellent images for the "taken on an iPhone", but you'd have to choose your moment according.
> ...



I'd be the same. But there are people who prefer to use their smart phone in a casual situation, and find the results for small size viewing just as good. I know, my eldest daughter is one of them. When I see pictures she's taken on the beach posted on Facebook I have to ask whether it was taken on her Canon or iPhone.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Sep 19, 2015)

Sporgon said:


> LonelyBoy said:
> 
> 
> > Sporgon said:
> ...


Photos on the beach sun? Yeah.

Photos in dark places?
The superiority of full frame and APS-C sensors is evident in any display size.

But there will always be people who think that cell phone photos "good enough".


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## Maximilian (Sep 19, 2015)

dilbert said:


> > Ive been part of an experiment at our camera club taking one photo for 365 days on my iPhone 6 I cannot tell you how many times I wanted to throw it in the bin because I cannot frame the shot I want.
> 
> 
> 
> Sounds like you need to learn how to photograph with your iPhone 6 better  It took me a while to get to know how to get the best out of the iPhone 5S that I have.


Oh great! This means you no longer have the need for any kind of FF Exmor sensor, particularly a Sony A7RII?
Good to know so I (we) don't have to ask you any more when we'll see results from it. 
Please dare to share some of your 14 stop lanscape pictures from your 5S. Thank you. 
[/sarc mode]


Otherwise, dilbert, please come back to a normal base of argumentation. 
The way you turn around others arguments and the way you bypass direct counterargument or even ignore them really is annoying.
Thank you! :


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## ishdakuteb (Sep 19, 2015)

Maximilian said:


> Oh great! This means you no longer have the need for any kind of FF Exmor sensor, particularly a Sony A7RII?
> Good to know so I (we) don't have to ask you any more when we'll see results from it. Please dare to share some of your 14 stop lanscape pictures from your 5S. Thank you.
> [/sarc mode]



[sarc mode]

Does not matter what camera he is using... His images will not be better than my images, not needing to mention number of great members in this forum, captured with my phone or my point and shoot camera (of course not for printing large)... And my phone is neither iPhone nor Samsung android...

Dilbert... want to prove me wrong? Show me your new images with your new Sony A7R II if you already bought one... or you can show me how you beat this image with you iPhone 5S. Below image was captured last Sunday at Mono Lake (I guess that you will probably be there in this fall foliage season...)

[/sarc mode]

Note: None of my landscape image is HDR... I like how the way that you are using that "[/sarc mode]"... so please allow me to steal it...


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## ishdakuteb (Sep 19, 2015)

dilbert said:


> ishdakuteb said:
> 
> 
> > no... i am picking at you, so i completely ignore about that...
> ...



no, i do not want comments to my images in this case... my main point is to CHALLENGE you. there is a great eastern sierra photographer in this forum, Dan Mitchell, so if i want to learn, i would ask him directly.

in this case, i will not since i am PICKING at YOU... and again... your images look like CRAP to me even though i am new to landscape photography...


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## Don Haines (Sep 19, 2015)

dilbert said:


> The camera you have is always the best camera to use.
> 
> Let me know when you're working in an office, catching the Tokyo subway to work every day in peak hour and packing a 1DX plus lens array with you, just in case a moment arises that you don't want to miss. Of course in the minute it takes you to get our your camera, everyone else around you has already pulled out their phone and uploaded the moment to instagram/facebook.



This is a point that many of us ignore..... for the masses, the cell phone IS good enough. It has great advantages in cost and convenience, but at the expense of flexibility and quality..... We should never forget that we participants in this forum are NOT the typical camera user.... the typical user is snapping away and posting unedited cellphone snaps on facebook.

The cell phone, as comes "out of the box" is a terrible camera with worse software. Add some apps that allow you to control it properly and add in a decent editor and the cell phone can perform surprisingly well. I have seen some amazing images taken with them. Above all, it is a tool. Use it to it's strengths and it works well. 
Use it to it's weaknesses and it is garbage.


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## Don Haines (Sep 20, 2015)

back to topic....

34Mpixel APS-C camera?????

The 70D was a huge improvement over the 60D, but how does Canon do this again?

I can see the 80D being similar in ISO performance to the 70D, despite the smaller pixels.... I can easily see it being an improvement over the 70D (and 7D2) for read noise.... I would not be in the least surprised if it had DR over 13...

Of course, it will keep touchscreen, tilt/swivel, and WiFi.... but what else will change? will we finally see built-in RF control of external flashes? Wireless charging? Will there be a "facebook" button?


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## beforeEos Camaras (Sep 20, 2015)

Don Haines said:


> back to topic....
> 
> 34Mpixel APS-C camera?????
> 
> ...



might have duel cpus as well this seems to be the trend to increase the bandwidth requirements
needed for higher megapixels focus points etc


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## Ozarker (Sep 20, 2015)

I'm all for new stuff. I think Canon is continuously coming out with new stuff. 

I have a 70D and it is just a year old, if that. I take delivery of a 5D MKIII on Monday. I'm real excited. Now, the thing is that both are considered by some to be "Long in the Tooth". To me they are not and I see amazing photos posted by people here all the time with both cameras.

The problem is I keep hearing people complain that Canon is constantly sitting on its corporate hands and never coming out with anything new.

I disagree. In fact, a person would be hard pressed to stay constantly current with the tech that Canon keeps releasing when it comes to cameras, lenses, and speedlites, etc. A person would need loads of cash to do so.

Maybe some of you professionals out there are making gobs of money and can constantly play the "keep up" game (Only for you professionals it isn't a game.), but for the regular Joe or Jane... heck most of us still don't know how to effectively use the "old" stuff we have.

That's a personal problem.

I think Canon does a fine job.


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## 9VIII (Sep 20, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Sorry about that folks for feeding the troll. Won't do that again.



I'm now running on the theory that Dilbert is an alt account created by the admin to increase post counts.


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## Ozarker (Sep 20, 2015)

9VIII said:


> endiendo said:
> 
> 
> > I don't understand the people complaining about too big files..
> ...


Why wouldn't these people put their "keepers" on DVDs instead of continuously buying hard drives? I just don't understand. I've got many photos from years ago, but I don't need the access to them that a hard drive provides. Stored as tiffs on a DVD makes more sense.


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## Maximilian (Sep 20, 2015)

dilbert said:


> ...
> Ok, back to a normal base of argumentation...
> 
> You're wrong and I'm right.
> ...


If that's seriously your opinion then I am felling really sorry for you 
and you really should consider professional help.

But to me your reaction tells me that I caught you. :


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## 9VIII (Sep 20, 2015)

dilbert said:


> 9VIII said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



Nope. They both have unique posting histories. ishdakuteb was having conversations with Neuro back in 2012 (diagnosing AF problems), that would be an extraordinary psychological experiment if Neuro was consistently building an alter ego from that far back.

Really, Dilbert, you just bring out the worst in people. I suggest you follow the lead of great people like Neuro and Jrista, and build a life for yourself somewhere else.


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## Don Haines (Sep 20, 2015)

dilbert said:


> At the moment, Canon are the leader in MP for FF but have long been behind Nikon/Sony for APS-C MP count. Maybe there is some "mine is bigger than yours" going on?



It wouldn't surprise me. Despite claims and protestations on this website, in the real world more megapixels sells cameras.... after all 34 is better than 20, I'll get the better camera with 34....

It works quite well in other industries too. For instance, horsepower sells cars.... I NEED!!! a 290HP engine for my morning commute in traffic.... I don't care if a senior citizen in a walker is moving faster than the traffic, I NEED MORE POWER!!!!!


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## Maximilian (Sep 21, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Maximilian said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...


Looking at your posts per time you don't.
And if you don't then this would be a better hobby than just trying to convince others here from you opinion.

And as I stated somewhere else here yours is occasionally true but NOT always. 
And you should not only bring your own arguments and then quietly move on to another line of argument if someone has the right arguments against you (like you do now with this children question).

But now I'll end up here because it seems a waste of time making you understand this.

And my apologies to all the others for getting OT about argumentation.


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## TheJock (Sep 21, 2015)

CanonFanBoy said:


> I'm all for new stuff. I think Canon is continuously coming out with new stuff.
> 
> I have a 70D and it is just a year old, if that. I take delivery of a 5D MKIII on Monday. I'm real excited. Now, the thing is that both are considered by some to be "Long in the Tooth". To me they are not and I see amazing photos posted by people here all the time with both cameras.
> 
> ...


SNAP!!!
I also have the 70D and I have just obtained the awesome 5DIII two months back. The high ISO IQ on the 70D is impressive as hell for me, and I can now compare it to the 5DIII which was a bit of a dream camera until my wife surprised me on my birthday in July. 
I think the 80D is going to have to be spectacular (which I doubt as the 70D was actually ground-breaking on release) or it'll just be a normal/standard upgrade, I doubt that there will be two ground-breakers in a row!!


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## tomscott (Sep 21, 2015)

CanonFanBoy said:


> 9VIII said:
> 
> 
> > endiendo said:
> ...



DVD layers degrade over time, in 10 years if a client comes back to you and says I want X image and they want you to so this and that with it, and your disc has degraded what are you going to do then? Its not a reliable source, also how many events do you do that you can fit everything on one 8gb dual layer disc… Split that lightroom library over multiple discs? How long will it take to copy all that over so the library is useable? probably an hour DVDs should be purely a last resort not a main storage solution. Add blu ray to that how long do 50GB discs take to write… HOURS!!!!

I work for a local newspaper and they do exactly the same thing, they needed an image from 1996 and the disc had degraded…that image is now gone along with everything else that the newspaper reported between January and July of that year.

Its different when you are shooting professionally you are responsible for the images. If you are shooting 3000 images per wedding will you go through and delete all the less than ideal images, from experience it takes an age, add 2-3 hours on your workflow. Importing and making 1-1 previews even on 400 images can take hours! Regardless of your machine. 

This year at Silverstone classics I shot 150gbs of images over a 3 day stint. I was lucky enough to go traveling for 5 months earlier last year and shot 2tbs of images… all of this on a 5DMKIII it adds up. Your milage may vary… But I spend as much time behind a machine sorting than I do shooting.

Im a wedding photographer primarily and shoot motorsport on the side as well as other subjects. I can tell you now doubling the image size is not always great on a workflow basis, fantastic for IQ but not so much for everyday. Computers are not increasing in performance dramatically not doubling anyway. I typically will invest 5K in a rig every 5 years, in the last 5 years I have amassed 24tbs of images. To have local storage with a back up and then have an offsite back up incase of fire robbery or environmental disaster. So a server grade 4tb hdd is currently £150 thats £2700 of storage for 72tbs. That takes time to back up for data redundancy. Add 5k for the rig then the cost of the software per year its a large investment to still live comfortably. Switch out two cameras every 5 years as shooting that amount of image wares them out… another 5-6k. If you double the MP you double the storage needs so double that storage amount. It starts to get difficult to keep up with it and its gets worse as the years role on.

This weekend I backup up my local drive with an external 5tb USB 3 it took nearly 2 days to transfer 4.6tb thats just data from April to present.

There are ways and means, my drives are backed up constantly so I don't have to worry about it. but my offsite backup is hard work, you can't transfer files like that over the internet it needs to be moved and set to backup and it can take days, thankfully my two backups are the same design so I just hot swap them.

If your a casual user your problems are much easier to manage maybe a new 2-4tb drive per year, when you are shooting like this you need another level to ensure data responsibility.

Somebody said earlier in the thread about seeing a 5DSR and a Pentax image side by side at A3… well A3 has been easily achieved from back in the 10mp 40D days. You won't see any difference they are designed for high end output… spend 20k on a MF camera for A3 prints… Just ridiculous.

I generally print maximum of A1 and the 5DMKIII does this great with a little enlargement. 28mp is probably my ideal size for the time being, not too much of an increase in file size but just about A1 natively.

This is a rough estimate for costing for me over a 5 year period.

7.5K for rig and storage, 2k for 2 servers, 5k for two cameras. £14.5k Here in the UK we get the VAT back so -20% off that @2.9k its still £11k so over a 5 year span thats about £2.5k a year.

Add maybe 1-2 lenses a year on upgrades repairs or replacements (£2k), £45 a month for CC at £540 (£2700 for 5 years) £350 a year to insure the gear (£1750) £14.5k. Another 11k.

So over 5 years the costings for me could be £22k it sounds a lot and it is, especially in a world where being a pro is hard work.

This is pretty rough. Obviously not everything needs to be updated, servers for example. In the past I have used my older Mac Pros as servers, I have a 2006 and 2008 which have 6 4TB drives in each. Lens updates aren't that recent, more like every 2-3 years as they get a lot of hammer, but repairs certainly. I would say this is a pretty normal estimation for most full time pros. 

Just to give a little insite to why the MP race can dramatically increase costs. Going from the 5DMKIII to a 5DSR could cost me an extra £2700 in storage for the same amount of time. Thats an extra 2 weddings I have to shoot to make that money back. In a 5 year span maybe its doesn't sound too bad but time is money.


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## Maximilian (Sep 21, 2015)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Why wouldn't these people put their "keepers" on DVDs instead of continuously buying hard drives? I just don't understand. I've got many photos from years ago, but I don't need the access to them that a hard drive provides. Stored as tiffs on a DVD makes more sense.


Hi CanonFanBoy! 

Personal experience: 
When I wanted to access some data from a just two years old CD ROM I was looking through a pure clean clear piece of plastic. 
No more reflective layer, no more readout possible.   :-[ :'(

Luckily the data was not so important to me and, okay, that was back in the late 90ies and things have changed a lot since then but I've learned my lesson.
==> I'll give optical devices a max of 5 years and in addition want to have a backup on some other type of media.

Of course todays DVDs are chemically more stable than the CDs back then but it shows you not to rely on such media.

Edit: That's the reason why you can buy those super expensive glass DVDs.These are printed and metallised and not chemically changed. Those can last for decades - if you don't drop them


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## 9VIII (Sep 21, 2015)

Glass DVD's? This is news to me (good news, that is).

If they could get a permanent disk medium to run in a Bluray Player it might be worth the effort to send a USB stick away for etching some data in stone (family photos etc...).


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## Etienne (Sep 21, 2015)

dilbert said:


> jeffa4444 said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



For years I took my Canon DSLR (different models over the years) with me every time I left the house, only in the last year have I stopped, and now I only bring my 5D3 if I'm pretty sure I'm going to use it.
Different strokes. I like using my DSLR. I have not yet found another format that I like nearly as well.


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## cosmopotter (Sep 21, 2015)

Let's face it, the MP war will continue just like horsepower wars do in cars. It's a pissing match. You will rarely use the full power, but it is there if you want it, so camera sensors will continue to grow. I saw someone mention that more MP = more noise. That's true until they figure it out and it's NOT true any more. The advent of Canon's 50MP sensors and now 120/240MP sensors that they have been touting recently along with the 4,000,000 ISO video camera are all technologies that will trickle down into new consumer products and professional DSLR's.

I also agree that Nikon and Sony have leapfrogged Canon in may respects recently, but do you think Canon will take that lying down? No way. Canon tends not to say "me too" when they bring new products to the market but add at least a couple of features that are unique enough to keep people coming back - HD on 5D MkII, dual pixel AF on 70D. In today's market, you can't be the best at everything but you have to be the best at something.


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## hubie (Sep 21, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> King Eyre said:
> 
> 
> > That's why the 7D2 got pretty mixed reviews...would have been much better with say 16 MP and a better noise performance....when will they learn?
> ...


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## tomscott (Sep 22, 2015)

The 7DMKII is good but it can't touch a 5DMKIII. Its about 3/4 - 1 stop better than the 7D.

The resolution is for crop more pixels on the subject. The camera is a sports and wildlife camera and in reality you can't always fill the frame hence the high pixel density. The 7D is pretty good for a crop camera.


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## privatebydesign (Sep 22, 2015)

hubie said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > King Eyre said:
> ...



I didn't say any of that!


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## Sporgon (Sep 22, 2015)

dilbert said:


> cosmopotter said:
> 
> 
> > Let's face it, the MP war will continue just like horsepower wars do in cars. It's a pissing match. You will rarely use the full power, but it is there if you want it, so camera sensors will continue to grow. I saw someone mention that more MP = more noise. That's true until they figure it out and it's NOT true any more. The advent of Canon's 50MP sensors and now 120/240MP sensors that they have been touting recently along with the 4,000,000 ISO video camera are all technologies that will trickle down into new consumer products and professional DSLR's.
> ...



Perhaps you'd also like to point out that the Canon G3x with the 1'' Sony Exmor R sensor beats both the Sony and Panasonic offerings using the same sensor.


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## Maximilian (Sep 22, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Maximilian said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


 : : :


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## jeffa4444 (Sep 22, 2015)

The future is colorimagery & DR


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## ishdakuteb (Sep 23, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Can I put that up against ishawhatever being neuro's alter ego?



Dilbert,

1. If you want to mention my nick, call it out loud, do not be a COWARD/LESS COURAGE (About changing it to ishdawhatever). If I want to mention about you, I call straight out your nick, not DILWHATEVER.

2. I am not Neuro, a professional person, so do not expect me to act/be as nice as Neuro. Neuro talks to you in different ways, but I do THROW my images to you face to prove that you skill is not up to talk about camera techniques when you do not even have enough ability to control your camera. Do I have this ability; the answer is “YES”. Posted images are proofs.

3. With other members, if they do not like my respond(s), I will delete them right away (All ready happen in the past). But for you, this will not happen and you know the reason why.

4. 9VIII mention that, “I had a conversation with Neuro in 2012”… <-- This is only FEW MONTHS after I bought my first DSLR and start learning. Where your photography levels are now? Since the day of registered to be the forum’s member? Still THE SAME? (Even though, you have been using DSLR much longer.)
Note: My goal is to learn with a minimal budget; therefore, I am willing to find all alternate ways to perform any tests and I am not looking for precision since to me, “fail is fail”.

5. If you think reporting ADM to block my post will change the way I am talking to you (See attached image), you are DEADLY WRONG…

6. Like I always say, if you want me to stay away from you… either of the following will work:
a. REQUEST ADM, again, to delete my account since I always challenge about posting images (You have my words that I will not re-create another account to TRASH your skills after the deletion.), or
b. Show your respect to the Canon forum. There is no reason, that you are being here and keep talking the same topic over and over again, and keep bashing Canon (Sound not NORMAL, at least to me), or
c. Learn to capture an image in a right way, if not better than mine (Sorry, I do not see this will doable though. That is true since I am keep learning while you keep bashing Canon.)
Until now, all your images are still GARBAGE, according to my photography vision. <-- Disagree about this, show the forum your new images with your new Sony camera (Which you told us that you will buy it, unless you are lying. And keep in mind, do not go out there and steal since I have followed number of great landscape photographers.)

After all, I am patient though, waiting for 3 days to respond to your post... always patient, just like I learn everything...


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## verysimplejason (Sep 26, 2015)

So Dilbert actually taken a picture? I've never seen him post one in all my time in Canonrumors. I hope I can see one from him...


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## Big_Ant_TV_Media (Sep 28, 2015)

tomscott said:


> The 7DMKII is good but it can't touch a 5DMKIII. Its about 3/4 - 1 stop better than the 7D.
> 
> The resolution is for crop more pixels on the subject. The camera is a sports and wildlife camera and in reality you can't always fill the frame hence the high pixel density. The 7D is pretty good for a crop camera.



i see your very 1 dimensional its not just a sports/wildlife camera


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## PropeNonComposMentis (Sep 29, 2015)

ishdakuteb said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > Can I put that up against ishawhatever being neuro's alter ego?
> ...


Well said Sir. I 2nd that !
(_They keep deleting my account also, but thru the magic of the internet... Oh look, I'm still here_ : )


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