# Not sure which Canon body to get



## shamlyn (Apr 4, 2014)

I have owned a Canon t3i with the 18-55 lens for almost 2 years now, but have never upgraded due to financial reasons, however I am looking to buy more lenses and a Camera body. Honestly, I don't really care about the 18-55 because I will be selling that with my T3i to one of my friends' who is wanting to get into SLR's. I am looking at either the 7D or the 6D. Granted, I know that 7D is an APS-C with higher fps, and the body is built better with aluminum. The 6D is a full frame with much better low light high ISO performance, but is also almost $900-$1000 more expensive considering that a used 7D is around $700-$800.

Also, if I go the 6D route, obviously I will buy 3-4 lenses that are used with the 6D or 3-4 lenses with the 7D.

Here is what I shoot: Landscape, wildlife, light trails, sunrises and sunsets (not directly but when the sun is rising/setting behind buildings, the city, et cetera). I definitely plan on getting into Macro photography this year, and would love to do some Star Trails also.

The Cameras I have taken a look at are:
7D

70D (However I do stills, and not video and the ISO is better than the 7D, but not as good as the 6D, but I am wondering if that would be another camera to consider)

5D Mark II (Granted the 6D is better/newer and can be found for around just a few hundred dollars more when there are specials on it)

6D.

I have also took a look at the 5D Mark III, but sadly the price is far out of my reach.

As a final note, I am not concerned with Wifi or GPS.

Let me know what you think about what camera body I should go with.

Thanks

Scott


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## tolusina (Apr 4, 2014)

6D


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## Random Orbits (Apr 4, 2014)

6D, if you swing it financially with the cost of lenses factored in. I'm guessing that you're probably looking for a lens group like a Samyang 14, Canon 24-105 f/4 IS, 70-200 f/4L or 70-300L and a 100mm macro.

If you go APS-C, I'd suggest the 70D with 10-22, 17-55, 70-200 f/4L or 70-300L and a 100mm macro. The higher quality lenses for the APS-C would cost more than the FF option above, which will offset some the APS-C's price advantage. If the budget is less than that, then crop will get you more bang for your buck: 18-55 and 55-250 much more affordable.


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## Don Haines (Apr 4, 2014)

Unless you are after distant objects and want every pixel possible on the subject, go for the 6D. Absolutly no comparison for low light use... for night skies, for sunsets, for landscapes.....

and this recomendation is from a crop camera owner....


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 4, 2014)

For the uses listed, the 6D is the better choice, budget permitting. 



tolusina said:


> 6D



I was going to say +1, but 6D + 1 = 7D, and that's not what I mean.


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## mrzero (Apr 4, 2014)

FYI, I jumped from a Rebel to a 6D and the difference really stands out. You'll get a kick out of it.


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## ktatty (Apr 4, 2014)

6d


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## ATC (Apr 4, 2014)

I'm very happy with my 6D, coming from a 40D.


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## shamlyn (Apr 4, 2014)

Random Orbits said:


> 6D, if you swing it financially with the cost of lenses factored in. I'm guessing that you're probably looking for a lens group like a Samyang 14, Canon 24-105 f/4 IS, 70-200 f/4L or 70-300L and a 100mm macro.
> 
> If you go APS-C, I'd suggest the 70D with 10-22, 17-55, 70-200 f/4L or 70-300L and a 100mm macro. The higher quality lenses for the APS-C would cost more than the FF option above, which will offset some the APS-C's price advantage. If the budget is less than that, then crop will get you more bang for your buck: 18-55 and 55-250 much more affordable.



Thanks Random Orbits. If I swing for the 6D which is looking like it, I would be buying the Canon 17-40, 24-105, the 100mm Macro, Tamron 150-600 or the Canon 100-400 and probably the Sigma 35 1.4 for low light photography.


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## Menace (Apr 4, 2014)

Get a 6D


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## Harv (Apr 5, 2014)

For your application I would also recommend the 6D. You can't beat full frame for what you plan to do.

Most dealers offer it as a kit with the 24-105 which gets you the lens at a real bargain price. You could also hold off on the 17-40 and see if you find 24mm wide enough on the 6D.


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## jdramirez (Apr 5, 2014)

I lean towards the 6d. Check Canon loyalty program... if the 6d is on the list you should be able to get one at a reasonable price. Also I've seen the 6d plus the 24-105 for around 1900 which isn't bad at all. 

The 7d is an upgrade but not for what you photograph. Ditto with the 70d.

I was initially under shelled by the 6d thinking it was a lessor 5d mkii, but the low light performance is well worth the price of admission. 

I'd suggest getting the 6d and pairing it with some quality primes to begin with, the 100 mm non L.

Then the 40 f2.8... and from there moving towards more expensive lenses.

Personally... I'd say spend your money on great lenses and some decent flashes... but that's me.


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## Roo (Apr 5, 2014)

shamlyn said:


> Random Orbits said:
> 
> 
> > 6D, if you swing it financially with the cost of lenses factored in. I'm guessing that you're probably looking for a lens group like a Samyang 14, Canon 24-105 f/4 IS, 70-200 f/4L or 70-300L and a 100mm macro.
> ...



6D with those lenses will cover the type of shooting you do except maybe the star trails for which you'll want something a little wider.


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## traingineer (Apr 5, 2014)

It seems that the 7D is getting no love... ;~;


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## CarlTN (Apr 5, 2014)

shamlyn said:


> I have owned a Canon t3i with the 18-55 lens for almost 2 years now, but have never upgraded due to financial reasons, however I am looking to buy more lenses and a Camera body. Honestly, I don't really care about the 18-55 because I will be selling that with my T3i to one of my friends' who is wanting to get into SLR's. I am looking at either the 7D or the 6D. Granted, I know that 7D is an APS-C with higher fps, and the body is built better with aluminum. The 6D is a full frame with much better low light high ISO performance, but is also almost $900-$1000 more expensive considering that a used 7D is around $700-$800.
> 
> Also, if I go the 6D route, obviously I will buy 3-4 lenses that are used with the 6D or 3-4 lenses with the 7D.
> 
> ...



I've yet to use Wi-Fi, haven't felt the need, so I can relate to you there.

You don't mention outdoors sports, or wanting to use long telephoto lenses outdoors to do bird photography...so I honestly must recommend the 6D, hands down. I bought mine a year ago, and I love it to death. The body is mostly magnesium and aluminum, with some plastic. It feels extremely rigid, my hands love holding it, no matter how big or small the lens is that's mounted.

I had a 50D for 4 years before this (put over 25,000 cycles on the shutter). Its body felt rigid, but yet less rigid, and far less pleasing to hold, than the 6D's. I've tried the 70D, 7D, 60D, Rebels, besides various 1 and 5 series bodies. I hated the 60D's and 7D's ergonomics and shutter button feel. I had planned on keeping the 50D a while longer, but it took maybe about 5 days to decide there was no need (I suspected I might feel this way immediately, but it took that long to completely decide). Sold it for a great price too. Hated to see it go, I loved that camera a lot as well. It was radically better than the Rebel Xsi I had before it. The T3i though, as Rebels go, is one of the best ones ever for its price. The 70D feels very close to the 6D's ergonomics. I think I like it. Really your choice should be between the 70D, and the 6D. I do hate flip screens, though, but most people love them if they spend much time shooting video with the camera. But a flip screen could work well for macro photography, though...and that is one of your use scenarios. 

As for the cost of the lenses...that is just the price you have to pay. I suggest buying a used 6D if you can get one for under $1280 or so, assuming it's very clean and not beat up, scratched, or been dropped, etc (might not be easy). And maybe consider a new Sigma Art 35mm f/1.4 lens for your star trails and landscape photography. It would also cover most general people portraiture. Barring this, certainly the 24-105L can also be a very good lens for your use scenario...although at 24mm it has severe barrel distortion (like over 5%). It's mostly gone by 30mm though. 

Fyi, I'm trying to sell my Sigma 24mm f/1.8, a fantastic lens for the money, and is brand new condition. It has about the lowest barrel distortion of any 24mm lens (other than perhaps the 24mm TS-E). 24mm is equal to 15mm on your Rebel. I wouldn't hesitate to use it for architectural and real estate photography...except there's not enough demand for it in my area. It works great for night sky photography if you close it down a bit...or if there are no stars or other points of light in the periphery...it can work well wide open (such as on a cloudy moonlit night in the wilderness). You can have it for about $300 less than I paid for my 24-105L.

Back to the 6D. It simply has the best overall (photo) image quality of any Canon camera. Compared to the view you see through the viewfinder of your T3i, it's like comparing a 30 inch tv to a 60 inch! The 1DX is very close in image quality to the 6D, the 5D3 somewhat close...and certainly the 1DX outshines them all at high ISO (as it should!). The reasons to buy the 1 or 5 series over a 6D, are the pro functionality and ergonomics, the autofocus, the speed, the features, the memory cards, the weather sealing...the larger viewfinders...the bragging rights. None of these is a small thing...but it really is mostly the autofocus! 

The 5D3 really delivers the best of all worlds when price is considered (just over half the price of the 1DX), besides being able to shoot pro video with "magic lantern" hacks. If you ever are thinking of being a pro location or event shooter (with flashgun or strobes), and need to do pro quality video, the 5D3 is without a doubt the camera to buy. Also if you do pro quality bird photography with big expensive glass, the 5D3 is really the minimum body you should use for that. Better would be the 1DX (except for the loud shutter that can scare the wildlife)...and best of all will likely be the upcoming high megapixel full frame body (other than frames per second, it won't be fast, but it will surely have better image quality than everything in 135 format...possibly even the Nikon D800 at low ISO).

As for the 6D's autofocus, it sounds like your use scenario would not remotely tax it. It is VERY far from a great autofocus, the 7D's is slightly a bit better overall...but the image quality of the 7D, just cannot compare. Like comparing a $200 paint job done in an alley, to a factory Maranello job. The 70D's image quality is not very close to the 6D, but it's a bit better than the 7D.


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## jdramirez (Apr 5, 2014)

traingineer said:


> It seems that the 7D is getting no love... ;~;



Image quality won't be improved because they share the same sensor. Most of the things he shoots are stationary and don't require an advanced auto focus system or a higher frames per second rate.. so that's why.

I'm a fan of the 7d and getting it used for $700 is a steal, but it is all about the body that is right for the shooter.


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## ktatty (Apr 5, 2014)

I think you would benefit moving from the cropped sensor to any of the full frame sensors. 
You need to go and put your hands on the cameras and see how they feel to you, weight, size, ect. The way the camera handles to you is more important than any review or technical rating.
If you have a FF sensor you can buy equivalent FF lenses vs the cropped lenses, so our next upgrade you can keep the lenses and sell the body.
On the wi-fi issue - i think its a hand feature when traveling. Neither body i have has it, my point and shoot does. Sometimes when i travel , i only have an iPad and its nice to link the point and shoot up and send pictures to family
I don't think the 6d has a pop up flash, so you will also need a flash. I have the 270 and 600, i would recommend the 270, its easy to carry and does what you need for most flash situations i have.
Keep in mind the weight and size of your kit- in my opinion , lighter and less is better,especially when you travel.
hope this helps!


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## Vivid Color (Apr 5, 2014)

Given your shooting interests, I'd say get the 6D. It's a camera you can grow with. Get it with the kit lens, 24-105--some great deals can be had. Then, get whatever lenses in whichever order makes sense for you.


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## traingineer (Apr 5, 2014)

jdramirez said:


> traingineer said:
> 
> 
> > It seems that the 7D is getting no love... ;~;
> ...



700$, That is pretty cheap.


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## jdramirez (Apr 6, 2014)

traingineer said:


> jdramirez said:
> 
> 
> > traingineer said:
> ...



About 2 or three months ago, I bought a used 7D with less than 2500 actuations and a 28-135 for the bargain basement price of $650. I then turned around and sold the 7D for 700ish and the lens for 200ish... so I made an easy $250ish. 

So... yeah... cheap.


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## gshocked (Apr 6, 2014)

6D. The change to full frame will hopefully recharge your photographic eye.
You'll also love the openness of a proper wide angle lens! Its a big leap but a nice change.


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## traingineer (Apr 6, 2014)

jdramirez said:


> traingineer said:
> 
> 
> > jdramirez said:
> ...



Cool. (ツ)


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## dgatwood (Apr 6, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> For the uses listed, the 6D is the better choice, budget permitting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



No, 6D + 1 = 6E. 6D + (0x)10 = 7D.


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## jdramirez (Apr 6, 2014)

CarlTN said:


> jdramirez said:
> 
> 
> > traingineer said:
> ...



All my money is in the cook islands... sons a bitches won't give it back though. :/


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## Valvebounce (Apr 6, 2014)

Hi, could you please show how you arrived at this formula! 
BODMAS being the first principle, (0x)10 I still recon this equals zero even if x is an unknown, anything (x) times 0=0, 0x10 =0 so are you saying 6D +0 = 7D? Or is my calculus (basically unused for 20 yrs) really that rusty? :'(
I stand to be corrected, perhaps we are using cypher principles rather than mathematical principles? : ;D ;D

Cheers Graham.




dgatwood said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > For the uses listed, the 6D is the better choice, budget permitting.
> ...


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## jdramirez (Apr 6, 2014)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi, could you please show how you arrived at this formula!
> BODMAS being the first principle, (0x)10 I still recon this equals zero even if x is an unknown, anything (x) times 0=0, 0x10 =0 so are you saying 6D +0 = 7D? Or is my calculus (basically unused for 20 yrs) really that rusty? :'(
> I stand to be corrected, perhaps we are using cypher principles rather than mathematical principles? : ;D ;D
> 
> ...



I saw it... and I thought there would be a joke somewhere than I'm not getting. 

6D9 + 1= 6E Ok... Then we need to solve for D since that is use in the next equation.

D=(6e-10)/6

ok

So plug that into the next equation which gives us...


6*(6e-10)/6+(0x)10=7*(6e-10)/6

So... reduce... and we get to

6e-10+0=(42e-70)/6

6e-10=7e-11.66
6e=7e-1.66
1.66=1e
ergo e=1.66

plug that into the equation above... 

D=(6*1.66-10)/6
d=(10-10)/6
d=0/6
d=0 


So yeah... 

I loved calculus 1 and 2 and got my ass kicked in calc three... so one day when I'm retired... I'll happily go back and audit some calc classes... for shitz and giggz.


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## Don Haines (Apr 7, 2014)

jdramirez said:


> Valvebounce said:
> 
> 
> > Hi, could you please show how you arrived at this formula!
> ...



It's counting in Hexadecimal...

0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 A B C D E F 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 1A 1B 1C 1D 1E 1F 20 21.....

67 68 69 6A 6B 6C* 6D 6E *6F....

and 6D(hex) + 10(hex) = 7D(hex)

Sad thing is, I'm old enough to have programmed bootstrap loaders in Octal and binary.... loading it in with toggle switches...


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## Valvebounce (Apr 7, 2014)

Hi Don.
Damn it is so sad when a clever joke has to be explained to the recipients! It would have been so much funnier if I got it whilst it was fresh! 
Thanks for explaining it Don, sorry for not getting it dgatwood, it was clever! :-[

Cheers Graham.


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## jdramirez (Apr 7, 2014)

FYI:

http://www.adorama.com/catalog.tpl?op=recommend&sku=ICA6DR&utm_term=wCcUY:wpeVJIzOjzdxUAZWyEUkTQs2zJyS2VzM0&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_campaign=Other&utm_source=rflaid62905

Adorama had a refurb 6D for 1299... so that should be around the price point where buy it, no questions asked.


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## philmoz (Apr 7, 2014)

Don Haines said:


> jdramirez said:
> 
> 
> > Valvebounce said:
> ...



Reminds me of the old programmers joke:
_There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't._

Phil.


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## dcm (Apr 7, 2014)

Don Haines said:


> ...
> 
> It's counting in Hexadecimal...
> 
> ...



Remember the IMSAI 8080 fondly myself - 2Mhz clock cycle and 64K bytes RAM max : Fortunately that phase passed fairly quickly.


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## dgatwood (Apr 7, 2014)

philmoz said:


> Reminds me of the old programmers joke:
> _There are only 10 types of people in the world, those who understand binary and those who don't._
> 
> Phil.



That and... There are two hard problems in computer science: cache invalidation, naming things, and off-by-one errors.


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## alexturton (Apr 7, 2014)

tolusina said:


> 6D



+1

7d and 5dii are dated. 

70d ok but ff > crop


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## sanj (Apr 7, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> For the uses listed, the 6D is the better choice, budget permitting.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Marsu42 (Apr 7, 2014)

shamlyn said:


> Here is what I shoot: Landscape, wildlife, light trails, sunrises and sunsets



If you think of wildlife as "tracking moving animals" then forget the 6d, the servo capability is abysmal (basically center point only, outer points are useless as is multi-point af mode). For everything else it depends on what image quality you want to get, it doesn't sound like you need the thin depth of field of full frame and 70d is certainly "good enough" for everything you at an ok price... though it doesn't run Magic Lantern.


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## jdramirez (Apr 8, 2014)

alexturton said:


> tolusina said:
> 
> 
> > 6D
> ...



Crap... I confused my threads... so disregard the parts where I mention real estate photography. 

I think dated might be overstating it... I've either owned or played with an XS, XTi, 50D, 60d, and 5D mkiii.

So the 10.1, 15.1, 18, and 22.3 full frame. 

In good light and @ iso 100/160, I'd trust any of those bodies... which means using a tripod, using off camera lighting, etc. 

When I wouldn't trust the 18 on down, is in questionable light, with moving targets, and high isos... 

I was editing some photos taken by my daughter with an SL1 in pretty bad light in a church... and it REALLY made me appreciate the mkiii. 

But for real estate... generally the walls and the furniture don't move. And with all of them you can and probably will do high dynamic range images, so the dynamic range of the lessor sensors is negated. 

The fact of the matter is that a good photographer can get more then adequate results using lessor gear... and while the 6D is probably the best option, money wasn't described as a constraint.


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## Valvebounce (Apr 8, 2014)

Hi JD.
I think there is at least one person on here that can prove the reverse of that statement, a poor photographer can get lesser results using adequate gear! I am of course talking about myself! :
Struggling to become a better photographer.

Cheers Graham.



jdramirez said:


> The fact of the matter is that a good photographer can get more then adequate results using lessor gear... and while the 6D is probably the best option, money wasn't described as a constraint.


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## jdramirez (Apr 8, 2014)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi JD.
> I think there is at least one person on here that can prove the reverse of that statement, a poor photographer can get lesser results using adequate gear! I am of course talking about myself! :
> Struggling to become a better photographer.
> 
> ...



When I first took up golf... I had a crap set I bought for $100... I played the crap out of the clubs and I did pretty well with a patchwork set. I'd compare that with my XS and 50mm f/1.8.

After a few years... I upgraded my clubs to a $300 driver (which was 15 years ago... so after inflation... $500ish) and a set of irons from Taylormade and a putter and wedges... 

I wanted the gear not to be the reason I had a crappy shot... So... my 5D mkiii and lenses are comparable to that. When I screw up a shot... I KNOW I'M TO BLAME. It sucks... I liked when it was my XS or 60D that were the problem.


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