# dark vignette in top right hand corner- help!



## billystrodder (Oct 23, 2013)

I shoot up to 5,000 dance photographs in one day in peak season.... high key background with Canon 5D Mk2
I cant come home and edit this dark shadow from all of them!!!!
After hours of tests and many configurations I have discovered that this vignette is caused by this camera - proven by when I shoot with the camera upside down because the shadow moves to the left! 
I have tried both 5D bodies I own and lenses 24-70 F2.8 and 70-200 F2.8.

Please see attached. What is going on!

Pic 1 - f/8 1/200 ISO 200 [email protected]
Pic 2 - same setting as Pic 1 but camera upside down
Pic 3 - f/8 1/200 ISO 200 [email protected]


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## Sporgon (Oct 23, 2013)

If the last picture was taken with the camera up side down could it be the mirror is not flipping fully up before shutter fires.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 23, 2013)

This is happening with two bodies and two lenses?? If so, I'd suspect a software issue, such as bad lens correction profiles. Or an issue with your lighting setup (3rd party wireless triggers not playing nice with your Xsync speed).


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## billystrodder (Oct 23, 2013)

I shoot RAW and this vignette is evident on the LCD before it hits software. It is not a lighting issue as this vignette is present wherever I frame on set- even in the brightest location on the background. You can see that with Pic 3.
Sync speed all ok.


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## Sporgon (Oct 23, 2013)

Sorry I mis read your post. This is happening on _two_ bodies ? But you said you had isolated the problem to this camera.


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## billystrodder (Oct 23, 2013)

"If the last picture was taken with the camera up side down could it be the mirror is not flipping fully up before shutter fires." - thankyou this is great logic and something I didnt think about! will try a different shutter seed tomorrow - fast action shots best at 1/200 though!


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 23, 2013)

To clarify - you can see the vignette with your eye, when looking through the optical viewfinder? Also, is this just with one body+lens combo, or more than one? Your original post, "_I have tried both 5D bodies I own and lenses 24-70 F2.8 and 70-200 F2.8,_" suggests the latter.


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## billystrodder (Oct 23, 2013)

yes problem isolated to the body... both bodies. Both perform the same in all test and variables. both lenses.


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## billystrodder (Oct 23, 2013)

Vignette evident on LCD and in Bridge/Photoshop and Aperture and even the finder window. Definately there. 
Have tried two 5D bodies with both lenses- all combinations.


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## billystrodder (Oct 23, 2013)

to clarify I cant see this vignette through the viewfinder when taking the shot.


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## billystrodder (Oct 23, 2013)

I really appreciate your thinking about this guys.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 23, 2013)

If it's a mechanical issue (shutter problem, etc.), the likelihood of the exact same issue affecting two bodies simultaneously seems incredibly small - it's much more likely something systematic about your setup. Do you see this when you shoot with no strobe lighting - clear blue sky or blank white wall with ambient light? 

Something else to try - does the vignette issue change with a lens at f/11 vs. f/2.8? 

You see the issue on the LCD, meaning it's in the JPG image (since that's what is shown on the review image). Do you see it when you open the RAW files in your RAW converter (and if so, which RAW converter, and have you tried more than one?).


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## billystrodder (Oct 23, 2013)

Vignette issue gets worse with f/11
Can see it in the raw files in various RAW converters.
incedible that its happening with both bodies I know!
Lighting set up has been tried and tested. No matter where I frame - even putting the right top corner in the brightest hot spot the vignette is still there. Not evident in clear blue skies but will test this further tomorrow.


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## pwp (Oct 23, 2013)

I've had odd vignetting from time to time; it's been the lens hood not fully rotated and clicked "home". 
If it's across two bodies, this could be it.

-pw


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## billystrodder (Oct 23, 2013)

I tried most tests without the lense hood. I was hoping that would be it the first time I removed it. 
Thanks for thinking of this though.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 23, 2013)

billystrodder said:


> Vignette issue gets worse with f/11
> Can see it in the raw files in various RAW converters.
> incedible that its happening with both bodies I know!
> Lighting set up has been tried and tested. No matter where I frame - even putting the right top corner in the brightest hot spot the vignette is still there. Not evident in clear blue skies but will test this further tomorrow.



Doesn't matter how bright the light is - if you don't see the problem without flash illumination but do see it with flash illumination, on two different bodies, that suggests the problem is the flash illumination, not the cameras. The fact that it gets worse at f/11 (where you've killed any ambient contribution) further supports the idea that it's a strobe/triggeing issue. My 2¢...


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## Sporgon (Oct 23, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> If it's a mechanical issue (shutter problem, etc.), the likelihood of the exact same issue affecting two bodies simultaneously seems incredibly small



+1, the probability of the mirror not lifting fully up on two different bodies at the same time must be virtually 0. 

It would suggest to me that it isn't the body.


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## thenickdude (Oct 23, 2013)

You're probably shooting with a shutter speed slightly too fast to sync properly with your flashes. Drop your shutter speed or check your flash triggering.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 23, 2013)

thenickdude said:


> You're probably shooting with a shutter speed slightly too fast to sync properly with your flashes. Drop your shutter speed or check your flash triggering.



Looking back at the original post, the shots are at 1/200 s which is the Xsync speed of the 5DIII. Despite assertions that, "_Sync speed all ok_," and, "_Lighting set up has been tried and tested_," I think the signs point to a flash sync problem.


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## drmikeinpdx (Oct 23, 2013)

Using my cheap radio flash trigger with Alien Bees, my 5D3 won't synch at 1/200. If I keep it at 1/160th, it works 99% of the time. When it doesn't work, I get an artifact a lot like those in the photos above.

Since the action is stopped by the strobes (at least in my otherwise dim studio) I don't worry about the exact shutter speed.


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## billystrodder (Oct 23, 2013)

neuroanatomist I will test your theory tomorrow.
this is what I shoot most of the time....
for clean detail and sharpness in the feet the shutter speed does seem to matter - these feet are moving at 100kms an hour at least.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 23, 2013)

billystrodder said:


> for clean detail and sharpness in the feet the shutter speed does seem to matter - these feet are moving at 100kms an hour at least.



1/200 s isn't nearly fast enough to freeze the motion of something moving that fast. As was pointed out earlier, it's the strobe(s) that are stopping the action. The slowest studio strobes have a flash duration of 1/500 s, and most are much faster than that (output power affects duration of most monolights only a little). Speedlites have a flash duration that's proportional to output power - on low power settings they can go shorter than 1/30,000 s duration (ganged speedlites on low power are used to freeze the wings of hummingbirds in flight, which are a lot faster than your dancers' feet - even the max shutter speed of 1/8000 s isn't fast enough). 

When the flash duration is much shorter than the shutter speed (which it always is unless you're using a system with completely electronic shutter or a leaf shutter), the only thing shutter speed affects is the relative contribution of ambient light. If you are using a narrower aperture, the strobe is going to overpower the ambient, and a shutter speed between 1/60 s and 1/200 s makes exactly zero difference in the ability to freeze fast motion.

Set your shutter speed to 1/160 s (1/125 s may be necessary for some trigger setups), and you should be fine.


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## docholliday (Oct 23, 2013)

Dependent on the strobe type and power setting, the sync speed may not be the "actual" sync speed. Though the body max sync's at 1/200, if you have wireless vs wired sync, full power vs 1/2 power, Broncolor vs Buff, etc., your sync speed may be well below that. 

I've done my share of dance shots, for a few theatre companies around here. I shoot Broncolor, with Pocketwizards on a 1DMkIII/1DsMkIII setup. Yet, I still set my shutter speed to 1/125 or 1/60 and let my lighting freeze the subject's motion for me. If the ambient is low enough in the room (model lights to low ratio), they won't influence your shots at all.

The vignetting I see looks more like uneven illumination of the scene, but since you've revolved around the camera body, it looks more like the curtain getting in the way of the strobe peak/fall.


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## awinphoto (Oct 23, 2013)

I dont know about the mark2, but pocket wizards, on my mark 3, claim to be 1/200 of a second sync speed, but in my tests, they are actually 1/160. if i do 1/200, they will get some darkening, although it would be more uniformed along that side. I dont shoot many high key shots so that could explain the unevenness a bit


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## Lurker (Oct 23, 2013)

Propagation delay?

You're probabaly catching the edge of the shutter curtain.

http://neilvn.com/tangents/high-speed-flash-sync/


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## agierke (Oct 23, 2013)

It's a sync issue. My 5d2 as well as two fellow photographers 5d2s will not sync with strobes at 1/200th of a sec. If you go to 1/160th the vignette will disapear. It's quite annoying because I believe sync is listed at 1/200th but that just isn't the case.

The only thing I'm not sure of is if this is brought on with the age of the body (I feel as if I use to be able to get 1/200th sync) or if maybe its an issue with wireless syncing ( I use pcb radios ).


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## privatebydesign (Oct 23, 2013)

Very well known and documented symptom, particularly after the popularity of remote speedlites and the 5D MkII. It is just flash sync, as Neuro says, go to 1/160, make sure you use an aperture that kills all ambient and you will be good.

http://strobist.blogspot.com/2010/01/know-your-sync.html

Got to be honest, this is something I would expect somebody shooting 5,000 images a day to be well aware of.

If you can't close your aperture and have to use 1/200 sec then just stand back and frame to crop, cropping and framing can be done automatically on import.


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