# Canon 1DX - AFMA reset when I turn off the camera (workaround found)



## ThomasBx (Jul 16, 2012)

Hi !
Sorry, my english isn't very good 
I have a problem with Af MA on my 1DX.
I respects the manual procedure for the MA settings but if I turn off the camera and turn on, the settings are cleared, reset to 0...
For exemple, with the EF 16-35 f2.8L II, in the first setting, the LCD screen displays [00] EF 16-35, I adjust W and T, I "wrote" the serial number (because the camera doesn't recognize the serial number) and it's OK.
I turn off the camera and turn on (lens always mounted on the camera)
And, in the first setting Af MA menu, the W and T values are 0 !
If I go in the sub menu with the INFO touch, my camera displays [01] EF 16-35...

The problem is identical with my EF 24-105 f4 L, EF 50, EF 70-200 f2.8 II and EF 40 f2.8 STM.
I specified my lens are not old. Purchased this year.
The CR2025 battery seems to work because hour/minutes/day are OK.

I have also a 5D Mark III and the Af MA works perfectly.
I have 2 friends who have a 1Dx et they don'have problem with Af MA.

I wrote to CPS today, this morning. I'm waiting a response.

Do you have same problems on your 1Dx ?
Thanks a lot for your help.

From moderator: for workaround, see THIS POST.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 16, 2012)

*Re: Canon 1DX - AF Micro Adjustment reset when I turn off the camera*

All I can offer is to make sure you are saving the settings. I had that issue with my 5D MK III until I remembered to save them.


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## ThomasBx (Jul 17, 2012)

*Re: Canon 1DX - AF Micro Adjustment reset when I turn off the camera*

I don't see a "save function" for micro-adjustment... 
I do the same procedure in my 5D3, I don't save anything with a save function. I go back to MENU and it's OK, the settings are saving.
In my 1DX, I also noticed that the standby camera after 1 minute, reset to 0 the Af MA, as when I turn off the camera. It's very very strange.

Nobody has found this problem on his camera ???


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## AlbertaCanonShooter (Jul 17, 2012)

*Re: Canon 1DX - AF Micro Adjustment reset when I turn off the camera*

I'm not having that problem, mine are staying as expected.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 17, 2012)

*Re: Canon 1DX - AF Micro Adjustment reset when I turn off the camera*



ThomasBx said:


> Nobody has found this problem on his camera?



Problems like this almost always amount to user error. Read the manual.   

In fact, I'm having the same problem. I'm pretty confident in saying it's _not_ user error. : 

When When Adjust by Lens is selected, powering off then on resets the setting (or W/T settings for a zoom lens) to zero, and also clears out a manually entered lens serial number. If I set it to All by Same Amount, the setting entered is retained...but, powering off actually changes the setting to Adjust by Lens, which is zeroed out. Even setting it to Disable and power cycling results in it being set to Adjust by Lens.

The same reversions occur if the camera goes into standby mode - when it's woken up, the AFMA setting, regardless of where it was left, reverts to Adjust by Lens with the previously set value(s) zeroed out. 

This occurs with several lenses (zooms and primes), and occurs in any mode (standard modes as well as the C1-C3 user settings).

I called Canon Tech Support, who had no information on the issue, but the tech rep indicated that he tried it on a 1D X and it didn't display that behavior. 

I expect a forthcoming firmware update which, "Addresses an intermittent issue that..." I can't see how it can be anything but a firmware issue, and I would bet it's a bug triggered by other settings (e.g., people who enabled the C2 and C3 settings before applying AFMA see the problem, or some other odd combination. 

Mine has Firmware Version 1.0.2 - I wonder if there are cameras with different firmware versions in the wild?


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 17, 2012)

*Re: Canon 1DX - AF Micro Adjustment reset when I turn off the camera*



AlbertaCanonShooter said:


> I'm not having that problem, mine are staying as expected.



Can you let me know if your 1D X has the same firmware as mine (v.1.0.2). Thanks!


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 17, 2012)

*Re: Canon 1DX - AF Micro Adjustment reset when I turn off the camera*

Chatted with B&H on the issue. When inquiring about exchanging the camera, the response was: "_Actually, it would be considered as a new order, since there are other orders in front of you, so it'd be the back of the queue...I can tell you that there are hundreds of backorders for this camera..._"

On the bright side, he did indicate that, "_We were also told by Canon that a firmware update should be released shortly to address this situation._"


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## nightbreath (Jul 17, 2012)

*Re: Canon 1DX - AF Micro Adjustment reset when I turn off the camera*



neuroanatomist said:


> ... On the bright side, he did indicate that, "_We were also told by Canon that a firmware update should be released shortly to address this situation._"


Looks like a firmware issue. Did you check AI-Servo tracking according to this reports?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 17, 2012)

*Re: Canon 1DX - AF Micro Adjustment reset when I turn off the camera*



neuroanatomist said:


> Chatted with B&H on the issue. When inquiring about exchanging the camera, the response was: "_Actually, it would be considered as a new order, since there are other orders in front of you, so it'd be the back of the queue...I can tell you that there are hundreds of backorders for this camera..._"
> 
> On the bright side, he did indicate that, "_We were also told by Canon that a firmware update should be released shortly to address this situation._"


Amazing that all of the beta testers did not find this, since the first thing many of us do is to Microadjust the lenses.


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## ThomasBx (Jul 17, 2012)

*Re: Canon 1DX - AF Micro Adjustment reset when I turn off the camera*



neuroanatomist said:


> ThomasBx said:
> 
> 
> > Nobody has found this problem on his camera?
> ...



Yes, I'm not alone 
At the beginning, everyone here thought I was crazy ;D

Mine has firmware Version 1.0.2 too.
I spoke with CPS rep at phone : technical service deals with the problem.
He phone me at the end of the week because next week he start to London Olympics Games.

@ Neuroanatomist : it has nothing to do with the C2 and C3 settings because I have not yet set C2 and C3 but only C1.

A friend has a 1Dx with firmware 1.0.2 and its settings MA Af works perfectly and remain in memory.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 17, 2012)

*Re: Canon 1DX - AF Micro Adjustment reset when I turn off the camera*



nightbreath said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > ... On the bright side, he did indicate that, "_We were also told by Canon that a firmware update should be released shortly to address this situation._"
> ...



I did, and I don't seem to be having that issue... On the whole, I'd rather have the AFMA problem than the AI Servo misfocus problem...


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 17, 2012)

*Re: Canon 1DX - AF Micro Adjustment reset when I turn off the camera*

Ok, the plot thickens...

When posting a screenshot in the AI Servo issue thread, showing that I apparently don't have that issue, I looked more closely at the EXIF window, and noticed it shows an AF Microadjustment of 2. Now, I know I powered the camera off and on after applying that adjustment initially, and I also know it went to standby several times...based on the above, that should have zeroed out the AFMA values. 

When I first entered an AFMA in for my 40/2.8 pancake lens, I entered -2. Right now, it shows 0 as described above. If I go in and set it to +15, it shows +15 until I power it off, then 0 after powering it back on. But...when I look at the EXIF in DPP for images shot at +15 before power cycling and 0 after power cycling, *they all show an adjustment of -2*, the value I entered initially. The 70-200 II is doing the same thing - the values I initially entered (+3 wide and +2 tele) are applied to all the RAW images, regardless of the value showing on the camera.

So...it appears that either something changed after applying the AFMA values for the 40/2.8 and 70-200 II (the only lenses I've adjusted so far, which I did this past Friday morning), or the first AMFA value applied sticks, no matter what you do (including Clear All in the AFMA menu, which I tried earlier today). 

If the latter is the case (which I can verify by mounting a lens not previuosly used with the 1D X and applying an adjustment), it seems I have a _strong_ incentive to get it right the first time...


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 17, 2012)

*Re: Canon 1DX - AF Micro Adjustment reset when I turn off the camera*



neuroanatomist said:


> Ok, the plot thickens...
> 
> When posting a screenshot in the AI Servo issue thread, showing that I apparently don't have that issue, I looked more closely at the EXIF window, and noticed it shows an AF Microadjustment of 2. Now, I know I powered the camera off and on after applying that adjustment initially, and I also know it went to standby several times...based on the above, that should have zeroed out the AFMA values.
> 
> ...


I'm happy that I held off on ordering one. Its certainly a great camera, but there are a few things to work out, and I have three DSLR's that work perfectly now.
I will be interested in any Canon mirrorless, and planned to order one, but I'm beginning to wonder if thats a good idea. All the camera manufacturers seem to be overwhelmed with issues in their new bodies.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 17, 2012)

*Re: Canon 1DX - AF Micro Adjustment reset when I turn off the camera*

The more I think about it, the less it makes sense. On Thursday afternoon of last week, I took all of my test shots with the 40/2.8 at a range of AFMA values. Then early Friday morning, I did the same thing with the 70-200 II. After both of those sessions, I returned each lens' setting to zero, then powered off the camera. Later Friday morning, I reviewed all of those images, and only then did I dial in the adjustments that seem to have stuck and now cannot be altered.


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## nightbreath (Jul 17, 2012)

*Re: Canon 1DX - AF Micro Adjustment reset when I turn off the camera*



neuroanatomist said:


> The more I think about it, the less it makes sense. On Thursday afternoon of last week, I took all of my test shots with the 40/2.8 at a range of AFMA values. Then early Friday morning, I did the same thing with the 70-200 II. After both of those sessions, I returned each lens' setting to zero, then powered off the camera. Later Friday morning, I reviewed all of those images, and only then did I dial in the adjustments that seem to have stuck and now cannot be altered.



May it be shutter button half press that saves the setting?


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## ThomasBx (Jul 17, 2012)

*Re: Canon 1DX - AF Micro Adjustment reset when I turn off the camera*


[/quote]

May it be shutter button half press that saves the setting?
[/quote]

No, I already tried... :-\


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## ThomasBx (Jul 17, 2012)

*Re: Canon 1DX - AF Micro Adjustment reset when I turn off the camera*



neuroanatomist said:


> The more I think about it, the less it makes sense. On Thursday afternoon of last week, I took all of my test shots with the 40/2.8 at a range of AFMA values. Then early Friday morning, I did the same thing with the 70-200 II. After both of those sessions, I returned each lens' setting to zero, then powered off the camera. Later Friday morning, I reviewed all of those images, and only then did I dial in the adjustments that seem to have stuck and now cannot be altered.



I had this problem also...
The only solution found is to pul all the settings at 0 to not do stupid things and take shots with a big back/front focus ;D


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## ExhibitA (Jul 17, 2012)

*Re: Canon 1DX - AF Micro Adjustment reset when I turn off the camera*

This problem was driving me batty for a few days. 

Canon tech support was not able to provide any helpful information during our extended email correspondence. 

In frustration, I just started trying all the various settings. I tried "clear all" in "Adjust by lens", then backed out of the menu and shut the camera down. Then I went into "All by same amount" set a value, backed out of the menu and shut the camera down. Then I went into "All by same amount" hit "clear all", backed out the menu and shut the camera down. Then I tried "Disable", backed out and shut the camera down. Finally I went back to "Adjust by lens", tried a different lens first (24L II instead of 300 2.8 II) and it worked. The camera is now accepting the values I enter for various lenses. (I am entering the serial number first, then setting the value.)

Without a specific fix, I'm afraid it's not really helpful in allowing you to solve the problem. My frantic button pushing experience does show, however, that there is some way of getting the camera to accept and retain individual lens values.


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## DJL329 (Jul 17, 2012)

*Re: Canon 1DX - AF Micro Adjustment reset when I turn off the camera*



neuroanatomist said:


> The more I think about it, the less it makes sense. On Thursday afternoon of last week, I took all of my test shots with the 40/2.8 at a range of AFMA values. Then early Friday morning, I did the same thing with the 70-200 II. After both of those sessions, I returned each lens' setting to zero, then powered off the camera. Later Friday morning, I reviewed all of those images, and only then did I dial in the adjustments that seem to have stuck and now cannot be altered.



Very strange. Only thing I can think of trying is to use the "Clear all camera settings" option. Then, without changing any other settings, set the AFMA on *one* lens and see if it saves it and lets you change it.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 18, 2012)

So...I also posted this issue over at TDP, and user Trowski suggested a workaround that does the trick:

[quote author=Trowski]
Enter an AFMA for an older lens (one without the serial number on the chip, like the 70-200 II), then power off the camera. Turn it back on, and the AFMA menu should show zero and the serial number will be zeroed out (though if you take a photo I'm willing to bet it will still show the adjustment you made). Now without powering off the camera, remove the lens and put it back on (or at least turn it enough so the contacts aren't touching). Go back into the AFMA menu. I'm willing to bet you'll see your adjustment value and the serial number.
[/quote]

Trowski is a genius! It's kludgy, but it's a workaround. After doing so, it seems to persist for one power cycle, too. After doing that with my 70-200 II, I put on my 40/2.8, and it showed the previously set -2 straight off. Power cycling then zeroed it out again, but just loosening and remounting the lens with the power on brought the correct -2 back. Also, changing the AFMA then doing the workaround results in the new AFMA being applied, and restored after a repeat of the workaround, as long as you change the AFMA setting right after the lens unmount/remount, when the previous setting is visible. The new setting also shows up in the EXIF, regardless of whether or not it appears zeroed out on the menu.

Some (including Bryan at TDP) have reported this issue, others say they don't have the problem. Personally, I always power off the camera before changing lenses - I wonder...if I routinely changed lenses with the camera powered on, would I not have noticed the issue? As stated above, the value seems to be saved, and recorded in the EXIF, just not displayed on-camera until it's forced to re-recognize the lens.

Sort of a pain, but it'll do until a firmware update comes along...

Thanks again, Trowski!


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## trowski (Jul 18, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Thanks again, Trowski!



Your welcome Neuroanatomist!

Long time lurker on this forum, but as you can see I haven't posted much. I may have to change that.

It seems that the camera firmware isn't doing the steps necessary to recognize the lens when the camera is initially powered on, but does when you switch lenses while the camera is on. Sounds like a simple firmware bug to me, something that can easily be fixed in an update. In the meantime, once you enter an adjustment, the camera uses the value for a lens of the same model, even though it initially thinks it's a new lens. I can see where this bug could have been overlooked. Most testers probably didn't micro adjust their lenses, and if they did, the value entered is still used when you take a photograph, even it doesn't show up correctly in the AFMA menu.

Does anyone know a good way of reporting this subtle problem to Canon so they can get this fixed in a firmware update?


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 19, 2012)

trowski said:


> Does anyone know a good way of reporting this subtle problem to Canon so they can get this fixed in a firmware update?



FWIW, I emailed Canon tech support yesterday. Heard back from them today with the statement that they could not reproduce the issue on their two 1D X bodies, and asked me to provide the detailed steps I took when trying to set an AFMA. I chuckled a bit at the implication that I don't know how to set an AFMA (especially given the fact that I've written a tutorial on the subject!). I replied to the email, and when I got home I took a short video clip documenting the issue, and I've just sent that to Canon as well.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/dr_brain/7600237574/#secretb2c81b5680


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## trowski (Jul 19, 2012)

Great video, but it is somewhat confusing because the adjustment values change when you remount the lens. You're entering +4 and -6 for lens 21. When you remount the lens, it recalls the lens and uses a previously entered set of values (+2 and +6). If you went one menu level deeper, it would show a different lens number.

You might want to clarify that the bug doesn't relate to the camera forgetting the adjustment values for a particular lens, but rather the camera failing to recognize the lens upon power-on or wake as a previously used lens, thus the camera registers a new lens with adjustment values and serial number of zero.

EDIT: I posted the following comment on the video better explaining what I mean.

"Great video John, but I wanted to clarify what is really happening here. Upon power-on or wake, the 1D X is failing to recognize the mounted lens as a previously used lens, thus numbering the lens 21 (in this example) and giving it AFMA values of zero and a serial number of zero. You then enter values of +4 and -6 for lens 21. When you unmount and remount the lens, the camera then recognizes the lens and recalls a previously entered set of AFMA values and serial number. The recalled values are now +2 and +6 because the camera is treating it as a different lens (since it correctly recognized it as a previously used lens). Going one level deeper would have shown a different lens number."


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 19, 2012)

After watching the video, Canon tech support has asked me to send my camera in for service.


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## ThomasBx (Jul 19, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> After watching the video, Canon tech support has asked me to send my camera in for service.



It's a very bad news... for you and for me too 
Why Canon did not offer a new camera ???

What will you do ?
Send the camera or wait a new maybe fix firmware ?


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## bdunbar79 (Jul 19, 2012)

Does this surprise anyone? I could have told you there was going to be issues with the first set of batches of cameras. I'll be getting mine about September/October and hopefully most of the bugs will be gone.


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## trowski (Jul 19, 2012)

So I called CPS this morning, thinking maybe I could have some luck with the issue. The lady I spoke with said they were aware of the issue from dealing with Neuro, and that they were not able to duplicate the issue on the three 1D X that they had tested it on. She wanted me to send the camera in so they could examine and document the issue. Since the problem is so subtle, I have a feeling that the problem wasn't conveyed correctly and they didn't test those cameras properly (the camera has to either go to sleep or be power cycled all the way, not just turning off then immediately back on, you have to wait a second since the camera doesn't actually immediately turn off). Otherwise perhaps we just got a bad batch at B&H that has a problem in some component. I'm guessing that Neuro, ThomasBX, Bryan at TDP, and I all got our cameras from the first batch at B&H, is that true? Are there 1D X owners here that really can't reproduce this problem?


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## ThomasBx (Jul 19, 2012)

trowski said:


> I'm guessing that Neuro, ThomasBX, Bryan at TDP, and I all got our cameras from the first batch at B&H, is that true?



It's not really true because two friends have received their camera 2 weeks before me and they don't have problem with Af MA...
And I have not bought my camera at B&H (because I don't live in NYC)...

Question : Is that the problem would not the lens mount rather than a firmware problem... ??????


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## trowski (Jul 19, 2012)

ThomasBx said:


> It's not really true because two friends have received their camera 2 weeks before me and they don't have problem with Af MA...
> And I have not bought my camera at B&H (because I don't live in NYC)...
> 
> Question : Is that the problem would not the lens mount rather than a firmware problem... ??????



Are your friends sure they don't have the problem? It's subtle, so it might be easy to miss, since you really have to go look in the menu to see that the value isn't being shown, since the camera still applies the adjustment when taking photos.

Well its interesting to know it wasn't just some cameras from B&H... not sure if that means anything.

If there is a hardware problem, I would think it would be in a chip somewhere, not on the lens mount.

We might just have to wait until there's more 1D X's in the wild so others can either show there is a problem or show that we are truly a minority. If so, then I guess it's off to service to have some components replaced.


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## Portrait_Moments_Photogra (Jul 19, 2012)

i tested mine, same thing - CANON, we have a PROBLEM!


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## StephanP (Jul 19, 2012)

JFYI: I have the same problem with my 1DX (bought in Germany) and 70-200 IS II lens.
AFMA works as expected with my 85/1.8 lens.


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## ThomasBx (Jul 19, 2012)

2 other user more


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## stringfellow1946 (Jul 19, 2012)

I have the same problem :-[. I picked mine up today from LCE Southampton, UK. I tried manually entering the serial No of the lens as the camera does not recognise the s/number, & it still has the same problem. I tried it with a new 70-200L F2.8 Mk2 & a 35mm F1.4L.
Must be a firmware issue??


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## stringfellow1946 (Jul 19, 2012)

This is crazy, I have just left the camera off for 10 minutes & tried it again and NOW its remembering the AFMF settings for both len's. WIERD :-[ ??? :-\
Could it be dirty lens connections???


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## sephknite (Jul 20, 2012)

This is odd. I tried it on my 70-200 IS II and I'm not getting it to happen. I watched the video like 8 times and followed the same inputs/key-presses and it saves fine.

I'm not sure if this has anything to do with it, but before the 70-200, I tried it with a 16-35 II and it saved as well. My firmware is also 1.0.2


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## StantonS (Jul 20, 2012)

Bug replicated on my unit as well. Will contact CPS tomorrow. Thanks John for the video!


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 20, 2012)

StantonS said:


> Bug replicated on my unit as well. Will contact CPS tomorrow. Thanks John for the video!



Glad to help by being (apparently) the tip of the iceberg. Ok, maybe not glad, exactly.


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## JR (Jul 20, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> After watching the video, Canon tech support has asked me to send my camera in for service.



Oh no! This is unfortunate. I just check on mine and luckily I dont have the issue. I even checked with my 70-200 2.8L II IS lens like yours and I dont have the problem.

Good luck...


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## hoghavemercy (Jul 20, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> trowski said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone know a good way of reporting this subtle problem to Canon so they can get this fixed in a firmware update?
> ...



this is like a CMOS battery dying and forgetting your settings, or pretty much a coding error. they held off a long time to release the camera and amazingly forgot to QC the whole batch. does it have a little battery like the 7D?


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## trowski (Jul 20, 2012)

sephknite said:


> This is odd. I tried it on my 70-200 IS II and I'm not getting it to happen. I watched the video like 8 times and followed the same inputs/key-presses and it saves fine.
> 
> I'm not sure if this has anything to do with it, but before the 70-200, I tried it with a 16-35 II and it saved as well. My firmware is also 1.0.2



Did you turn the camera off/on too fast? The camera doesn't actually turn off for about 2 seconds after you turn it off, so you might have turned the dial too fast. The most repeatable way I've found to make the bug show up is to let the camera go to sleep. The mounted lens is always unrecognized as a previously registered lens after this, but un- and remounting the lens always fixes the problem.



stringfellow1946 said:


> This is crazy, I have just left the camera off for 10 minutes & tried it again and NOW its remembering the AFMF settings for both len's. WIERD :-[ ??? :-\
> Could it be dirty lens connections???



Could you try again? I notice sometimes it does recognize the lens when powered on... not sure why yet, maybe there's a reason for this. Try letting it go to sleep like I mentioned above.

Looks like a few others will be getting their cameras from B&H soon, maybe they can test for this problem as well. I still think it's a firmware problem, but if it is, then I would think everyone would be affected and we'd see more threads on other sites about this problem.

I wish I could reinstall the firmware, just to see if that did anything, but I don't see it available for download on Canon's site.


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## sephknite (Jul 20, 2012)

trowski said:


> sephknite said:
> 
> 
> > This is odd. I tried it on my 70-200 IS II and I'm not getting it to happen. I watched the video like 8 times and followed the same inputs/key-presses and it saves fine.
> ...



I tried turning on/off at different speeds, fast and slow. I'll try the timeout tonight.

Update: I tried it again and still have my numbers retained. I did a 5-count when I turned camera off/on. I also tried a 1-minute timeout and that seemed fine as well. I'm wondering if it's certain batches that has this issue. ???


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## Studio1930 (Jul 20, 2012)

More settings not being saved... My 1DX won't save the "AP point direct selection" setting after turning off the camera (sometimes) while using a 200 f/2 lens. Not sure of other lenses yet. This setting is the one that allows you to move the focus point with the joy stick without having to hit any other buttons.

It sounds like Canon is not saving any (or at least some) settings you change when you power off the camera and it doesn't recognize the lens. I also have the AFMA bug.

-Darrin
www.studio1930.com


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## Sycotek (Jul 21, 2012)

Long shot suggestion but I uploaded a solid working profile from a canon reps camera which helped resolve my af issue.

perhaps try and make a copy of yours and then reset your camera to his - if it fixes the issues send me the broken profile and i can see if he will accept submitting it to canon jp (as he is doing with my broken config)


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## trowski (Jul 21, 2012)

On a whim this morning I thought I'd try resetting everything on the camera to factory defaults and see what happens. I only had about 10 minutes to experiment, but it seems the camera is now _correctly_ recalling previously used lenses in the AFMA menu, regardless of the lens used, if the camera is power-cycled, or upon waking from sleep. Resetting the camera settings actually did not clear out the adjustment values I entered, but I did have to change the AFMA setting back to adjust by lens. Other than this change, I did not change any settings on the camera.

Looks like this is why Canon was unable to replicate our problem. I'm guessing their 1D X's are largely still on factory settings. Apparently some change that several of us made in the settings causes this problem. Looks like it is just a firmware bug that's even more subtle that I thought.

Everyone who has this problem, try resetting your camera to factory defaults, change AFMA to adjust by lens, and see what it does.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 21, 2012)

Thanks again! I had planned to try that, and also the settings file download from the Servo AF issue thread, as part of more extended trouble shooting on Monday (using the camera this weekend, with lenses already AFMA'd, and didn't want to revert my C-modes). 

So...I'll try it on Monday, but I welcome input from anyone else affected!


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## JEAraman (Jul 21, 2012)

I did a similar test with my 70-200 II .. I didn't even try entering the settings, I noticed that the serial wasn't being detected; manually input them.Power off /on... it detected a new lens. unmount /mount lens. serial number (that I had inputed manually) is now showing.. 

So.. same problem I guess.


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## JEAraman (Jul 21, 2012)

One more thing worth noting..

I tried my 100mm L , 85 1.2, 16-35 II, and 50 1.4 and all had the same issue like the 70-200.. the camera wouldn't recognize the serial on its own.,


the 8-15 fisheye, however, did recognize the serial and I tried saving the settings for AFMA and they worked.. 

Figures... the camera isn't recognizing the lenses!!!


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 21, 2012)

I think that only the relatively new lenses are chipped for serial number, i.e. lenses designed after Canon decided to add that feature to the 1D X. A CPN article states, "_ If the serial number of your lens isn't detected it's possible to register a serial number for a lens within the camera menu._"

My 70-200 II serial number was never detected, my 40mm f/2.8 pancake serial number is shown, even as the AFMA values for it are zeroed out.


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## JEAraman (Jul 21, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> I think that only the relatively new lenses are chipped for serial number, i.e. lenses designed after Canon decided to add that feature to the 1D X. A CPN article states, "_ If the serial number of your lens isn't detected it's possible to register a serial number for a lens within the camera menu._"
> 
> My 70-200 II serial number was never detected, my 40mm f/2.8 pancake serial number is shown, even as the AFMA values for it are zeroed out.



So your setting for the 40mm is being lost, eventhough it's being recognized by the camera.. Euff.. will try the 8-15 one more time.


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## JEAraman (Jul 21, 2012)

I tried the 8-15.. settings are saved.. tried changing the lens.. (the 50 1.4) is being recognized as "01" meaning it's thinking that it's another 50 1.4.. turned off the camera, attached the 8-15.. settings are retained!! 

I can't make any sense from this..


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## trowski (Jul 22, 2012)

JEAraman said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > I think that only the relatively new lenses are chipped for serial number, i.e. lenses designed after Canon decided to add that feature to the 1D X. A CPN article states, "_ If the serial number of your lens isn't detected it's possible to register a serial number for a lens within the camera menu._"
> ...



The camera isn't recognizing the lens has having been _previously registered_ with an AFMA value. It still reads the model name and serial number off the lens just fine. Like John said, lenses released before 2011 (even if they were purchased after then) do not have the serial number on the chip. For example, I have a 70-200mm IS II that was purchased in mid-2011 that does not show a serial number on the 1D X (and on the 5DIII).



JEAraman said:


> I tried the 8-15.. settings are saved.. tried changing the lens.. (the 50 1.4) is being recognized as "01" meaning it's thinking that it's another 50 1.4.. turned off the camera, attached the 8-15.. settings are retained!!
> 
> I can't make any sense from this..



The camera numbers lenses sequentially, regardless of the model. So you have the 8-15mm registered in slot [00]. When you mounted the 50mm 1.4, that lens was set to be registered in slot [01]. If you didn't register a value and mounted another lens, it would still show [01]. If you did register a value for the 50mm 1.4, then mounting a third lens would show [02].


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 22, 2012)

Ok, decided not to wait. So, I went through and took iPhone pics of my settings screens, then did a Clear All Camera Settings (Setup menu 4) and Clear All Custom Functions (C.Fn menu 7). After that, AFMA is behaving normally!!

I'll re-enter all my settings later, and see if it breaks again. But so far, it seems we're back in business... 

Thanks again, Trowski!!


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## trowski (Jul 22, 2012)

Through some experimentation, I think I determined which setting is the culprit: _Orientation linked AF point_. With it set to _Same for both vert/horiz_ (the default), the lens appears to always be correctly recognized in the AFMA menu. If it is set to _Select separate AF points_, the camera never recognizes the lens as having been registered in the AFMA menu after sleeping then wake.

Seems like a crazy correlation, but that is what appears to be happening. Looks like the three 1D X's that Canon tested had this setting on the default value.

Try changing this John, lets see if it works on your camera too.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 22, 2012)

trowski said:


> Through some experimentation, I think I determined which setting is the culprit: _Orientation linked AF point_. With it set to _Same for both vert/horiz_ (the default), the lens appears to always be correctly recognized in the AFMA menu. If it is set to _Select separate AF points_, the camera never recognizes the lens as having been registered in the AFMA menu after sleeping then wake.
> 
> Seems like a crazy correlation, but that is what appears to be happening. Looks like the three 1D X's that Canon tested had this setting on the default value.
> 
> Try changing this John, lets see if it works on your camera too.



Indeed, that is the case for me, as well. I've just emailed Canon Tech support (have been having an onging dialog with them), and I would think they should be able to duplicate the issue. I'll let you know their response. Further, this makes it almost certainly a firmware issue.

To sum up: 

*With AF4 menu option Orientation Linked AF Point set to the default of Same for Both Vert/Horiz, behavior of the AFMA setting is normal. But, when it's set to Select Separate AF Points (which mine was), the AFMA zeroing out occurs.* 

Simply changing that one setting from default 'breaks' the AFMA behavior, resulting in the phenomenon shown in my video, and resetting that one setting to default restores the correct behavior.

*That one setting seems to account for affected vs. unaffected users*, though additional confirmation by others would be appreciated.

This is what I stated in my first post on the issue:



neuroanatomist said:


> I can't see how it can be anything but a firmware issue, and I would bet it's a bug triggered by other settings...



Your excellent detective work found the specific setting that's the culprit. Thanks again! ;D


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## Studio1930 (Jul 22, 2012)

Just check mine and yes, turning off and on the linked AF points does make the problem appear and disappear. I think you have found the issue. I also figured out that my issue earlier about losing the direct AF point feature was actually caused by using C1 or C2 settings. You have to set this feature in your C modes as well as the AFMA settings. Changing to a C mode will zero out your AFMA settings if you had not set them and saved them in the C mode first.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 22, 2012)

Studio1930 said:


> Just check mine and yes, turning off and on the linked AF points does make the problem appear and disappear.



Thanks!



Studio1930 said:


> ...as well as the AFMA settings. Changing to a C mode will zero out your AFMA settings if you had not set them and saved them in the C mode first.



That shouldn't be the case. At least, it's not for me (nor on my 5DII or 7D).


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## ThomasBx (Jul 22, 2012)

I tried with 2 lens : EF 16-35 L II and EF 40 STM.
Before I clear all camera settings (setup menu 4) and clear all custom functions (C.Fn menu 7). 
Indeed, this solution works... but partially.
I explain : the EF 40 STM have a chip with the serial number, the EF 16-35 no.
If I enter a serial number for the 16-35 and micro-adjustement setting, then I change lens with the pancake 40mm, the camera recognizes a new lens...
Finally, do not enter a serial number for lens that do not...for backing settings.
But it works randomly...


Trowski put his finger on the problem : there is indeed a firmware bug.


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## ThomasBx (Jul 22, 2012)

I continued my test with EF 24-105L f/4 IS and EF 70-200 f/2.8 L IS II.
This two lens haven't chip serial number, the 1DX not recognizes the serial number lens.
My 40mm STM pancake have a chip serial number, the 1Dx recognize serial number lens
For the lens have serial number, it works correctly, you can switch lens, the settings are saving.
But for the lens haven't chip serial number, the settings are not recorded, the camera see each time a new lens.
Made the test with your lens, switch between several lens.
I hope Canon saw this problem...


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 22, 2012)

ThomasBx said:


> I tried with 2 lens : EF 16-35 L II and EF 40 STM.
> Before I clear all camera settings (setup menu 4) and clear all custom functions (C.Fn menu 7).
> Indeed, this solution works... but partially.
> I explain : the EF 40 STM have a chip with the serial number, the EF 16-35 no.
> ...



Not sure I understand... After entering a serial number and AFMAs for the 70-200 II (not chipped for serial number), I can switch back and forth between the 70-200 II and the 40mm pancake, and the AFMA and serial number are retained and shown (as long as the orientation-linked AF point setting is left on default).

Can you explain in more detail, please?


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## JEAraman (Jul 22, 2012)

trowski said:


> JEAraman said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Yes.. I mistakenly thought "each" lens started it's own numbering... I just checked the settings for the "orientation linked AF point" and it was "Same for both vert/horiz".

so that's why the settings for the 8-15 were being saved.. will try to change it to "select separate AF points" and try the 8-15 again.


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## JEAraman (Jul 22, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Studio1930 said:
> 
> 
> > Just check mine and yes, turning off and on the linked AF points does make the problem appear and disappear.
> ...



Same here, changing the "orientation linked af point" to "select separate AF points" is the CULPRIT!!


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## ThomasBx (Jul 22, 2012)

Sorry, my english is not very good (I'm french).

Ok, sorry, in fact, it works... ;D

I have done with the [00] and [01].
I thought this value in [] increase by the same type of lens for differents of 24-105 (if you have several 24-105)for example and not for all the lens.
I think I'm not awake today 

I explain step by step the procedure I made :
1)My EF 24-105L is mounted (lens not chipped for serial number).
2) I turn on power.
3)The orientation-linked AF point setting is left on default.
4) Reset all setting AFMA's
5) The 1DX see [00]EF 24-105. I enter a serial number and AFMA's.
6) I turn off and turn on the power for checking memory settings : it's OK.
7) I turn off the power and I mount a 40mm pancake.
8) I turn on the power, my camera see the [01] EF 40 STM.
9) Serial number lens is recognized, I set AFMA's.
10) I turn off and turn on the power for checking memory settings : it's OK
11) I turn off the power.
12) I mount again the EF 24-105 and turn on the power.
13) The 1Dx see [00]24-105 with the good AFMA's recorded and the good serial number.

Ok, the AFMA's settings are recorded inside the 1DX 

It works same way on the 5D3.

Canon now knows how to repair this bug 8)

Thank you very much to neuroanatomist and trowski !


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 23, 2012)

Response from Canon Tech Support:

[quote author=Canon Tech Support]I have sent this information to our engineers for review. Please keep an eye on our website for any firmware updates that may become available to resolve this issue.[/quote]


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## trowski (Jul 23, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Response from Canon Tech Support:
> 
> [quote author=Canon Tech Support]I have sent this information to our engineers for review. Please keep an eye on our website for any firmware updates that may become available to resolve this issue.


[/quote]

I guess that's another way of saying "We were able to replicate this issue on the 1D X's that we have and have notified the programmers that they have a bug to fix."

Wonder if I can get a good job sticker for the debugging I did for them (or perhaps something a little nicer than a sticker)? ;D


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 23, 2012)

trowski said:


> Wonder if I can get a good job sticker for the debugging I did for them (or perhaps something a little nicer than a sticker)?



Here you go...


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## justaphotographer (Jul 25, 2012)

A new development in this issue (seems to affect both 1Dx and 5D3). Wanted to see if anyone else noticed this. After setting the AFMA if you take a picture while in AF-SERVO and then review the picture on the back of the LCD (hit the info button during playback so you can see maximum information about the photo) you will see the micro-adjustment noted.

However, if you take a picture while on ONE-SHOT and then review that image on the LCD you will notice that the micro-adjustment is NOT noted. It is 100% repeatable on both the 1Dx and 5D3.

When I bring the images into Canon's DPP it also only shows the micro-adjustment setting on photos that were taken when the camera was in AF-SERVO. What I can not determine though is if this is only a visual bug or if in fact micro-adjustments are only being used when shooting in AF-SERVO mode.

Anyone have any thoughts on this?



neuroanatomist said:


> Response from Canon Tech Support:
> 
> [quote author=Canon Tech Support]I have sent this information to our engineers for review. Please keep an eye on our website for any firmware updates that may become available to resolve this issue.


[/quote]


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## Studio1930 (Jul 25, 2012)

justaphotographer said:


> A new development in this issue (seems to affect both 1Dx and 5D3). Wanted to see if anyone else noticed this. After setting the AFMA if you take a picture while in AF-SERVO and then review the picture on the back of the LCD (hit the info button during playback so you can see maximum information about the photo) you will see the micro-adjustment noted.
> 
> However, if you take a picture while on ONE-SHOT and then review that image on the LCD you will notice that the micro-adjustment is NOT noted.  It is 100% repeatable on both the 1Dx and 5D3.
> 
> ...


[/quote]

Quick way to test would be to set your micro adjustment to waaaay off like -20 and take both shots. One should be mostly in focus and one should be waaaay blurry or both will be waaaay blurry. I'll test when I get back to my equipment (1DX).

-Darrin


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## justaphotographer (Jul 25, 2012)

Hey Darrin,

That is a great suggestion and I can't believe I didn't think of that. I did that very test just now and the good news is that from the looks of it, it seems to be a visual only problem and micro adjustment changes seem to have an affect on the overall image focus even in ONE-SHOT. I have notified CPS.



Studio1930 said:


> justaphotographer said:
> 
> 
> > A new development in this issue (seems to affect both 1Dx and 5D3). Wanted to see if anyone else noticed this. After setting the AFMA if you take a picture while in AF-SERVO and then review the picture on the back of the LCD (hit the info button during playback so you can see maximum information about the photo) you will see the micro-adjustment noted.
> ...



Quick way to test would be to set your micro adjustment to waaaay off like -20 and take both shots. One should be mostly in focus and one should be waaaay blurry or both will be waaaay blurry. I'll test when I get back to my equipment (1DX).

-Darrin
[/quote]


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 25, 2012)

justaphotographer said:


> A new development in this issue (seems to affect both 1Dx and 5D3). Wanted to see if anyone else noticed this. After setting the AFMA if you take a picture while in AF-SERVO and then review the picture on the back of the LCD (hit the info button during playback so you can see maximum information about the photo) you will see the micro-adjustment noted.
> 
> However, if you take a picture while on ONE-SHOT and then review that image on the LCD you will notice that the micro-adjustment is NOT noted. It is 100% repeatable on both the 1Dx and 5D3.
> 
> ...



The AFMA value is only recorded in the EXIF data if the camera is actively focusing when the shot is taken. If you are using back-button AF (as I do), a common practice in One Shot is to press then release the AF-ON button before pressing the shutter button (I do this routinely, with only a _very_ short lag between the two steps). DOing that, the AFMA offset is applied during focusing, but the value isn't recorded. If you keep the AF-ON button pressed as you press the shutter, you should find the AFMA value recorded in the EXIF.

Note that the ability to display the AF point(s) selected for the shot behaves exactly the same way - if you use back-button AF and press then release the AF-ON button before taking the shot, the AF point(s) used do not show up when you select the option to show them in DPP. The solution is the same - keep holding AF-ON when you press the shutter.

It's like this on the 5DII and 7D, as well, which sort of makes sense - the camera only records the focusing data if focusing is active when the shot is taken. 

Side note, I've been doing my AFMAs using the manual option in FoCal, and I had to re-train myself to keep the AF-ON button pressed when depressing the shutter, since FoCal needs the AFMA value in the EXIF to do it's calculations.

Hopefully that solves your (non?) issue... 

Below is a screenshot showing the AFMA value recorded in One Shot on my 1D X.


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## justaphotographer (Jul 25, 2012)

Neuroanatomist,

Thank you so much and you are correct. CPS didn't say all that you said, but in working this out we discovered (actually I suggested it strangely enough) that the problem (not really a problem) was with how AF was mapped. As soon as I mapped the AF to the shutter button the MA showed up (just as you suggested). Glad this was a non-issue. I just happened to notice while reviewing my images that some showed it and others didn't. Contrary to what you wrote though, the older 5D Mark II does not behave this way. I just tested it. I mapped the 5D2 to use AF on the back button and even in ONE-SHOT (after I've released the AF button) the camera does still record the MA. Regardless, this appears to be a visual difference between older cameras and the current batch. I can live with that. Thanks Neuro for your always helpful posts.



neuroanatomist said:


> justaphotographer said:
> 
> 
> > A new development in this issue (seems to affect both 1Dx and 5D3). Wanted to see if anyone else noticed this. After setting the AFMA if you take a picture while in AF-SERVO and then review the picture on the back of the LCD (hit the info button during playback so you can see maximum information about the photo) you will see the micro-adjustment noted.
> ...


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 25, 2012)

Glad that sorted your issue. Thanks for the info on the 5DII - I do know that it doesn't record the AF point used unless it's actively focusing, and assumed that applied to the AFMA value as well. As you did, I observed the behavior on my 1D X. Since it was recorded on the 5DII even when not actively focusing, it seems Canon made a decision to not record it on the newer cameras. Might be because if you tweak the focus manually, that would obviate the AFMA setting. Regardless, it is what it is, and at least this does not seem to be another bug.


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## ThomasBx (Jul 27, 2012)

Quick question :
Do you think all the 1Dx are affected by this Af MA problem ????
It's very difficult find a answer in different forums...

I ask this because I'm lucky to have maybe a new 1Dx in exchange next week 

Neuro, trowsky, an answer please ?


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 27, 2012)

I'm pretty sure that they are all affected, since it seems to be a firmware bug. Canon service told both Trowski and me initially that they could not replicate the bug. After Trowski figured out how to 'cause' it, and I told Canon that, their response was that they would pass the information along to their engineers, and to be on the lookout for a firmware update. I'm sure they are not inclined to admit fault, but that sounds to me like they are acknowledging they are able to replicate the issue on their 1D X bodies.


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## ThomasBx (Jul 27, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> I'm pretty sure that they are all affected, since it seems to be a firmware bug. Canon service told both Trowski and me initially that they could not replicate the bug. After Trowski figured out how to 'cause' it, and I told Canon that, their response was that they would pass the information along to their engineers, and to be on the lookout for a firmware update. I'm sure they are not inclined to admit fault, but that sounds to me like they are acknowledging they are able to replicate the issue on their 1D X bodies.



Thank's neuro.

So, for you, it's not necessary that I change to a new 1dx ?


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 27, 2012)

ThomasBx said:


> So, for you, it's not necessary that I change to a new 1dx ?



I wouldn't think so. A couple of people earlier in the thread who reportedly didn't have the AMFA issue stated that enabling the orientation-sensitive AF point option caused them to have their AFMAs apparently zeroed out. 

I wonder if there's anyone out there who does not have the bug occur when they turn on the orientation sensitive option - so far, no one has reported that.


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## ThomasBx (Jul 27, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> ThomasBx said:
> 
> 
> > So, for you, it's not necessary that I change to a new 1dx ?
> ...



Thank's.
You are a very good Sherlock Holmes ;D


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 27, 2012)

ThomasBx said:


> Thank's.
> You are a very good Sherlock Holmes



Thank Trowski. I'm just Dr. Watson here...


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## SpencerImages (Aug 5, 2012)

Great work guys, I thought I was going crazy when the fours was noticeably off when I was sure I had done the AFMA. Fixed now (was only a prob with the 70-200 F2.8II + 1.4x converter, but it was a massive problem requiring manual focus). Thanks heaps, now I can concentrate on my trip through Canada rather than my autofocus!
;D


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