# 600 F4 II or 300 F2.8 II and extenders for a Safari kenya



## Hector1970 (Jul 23, 2018)

H All,
I asked one or two of the members about advice as to what lens to bring on a safari.
I was recommended to bring the 600 F4 II to Kenya.
It's a great lens and usually I have it on a tripod and wimberly head.
I'm not as strong as I used to be and I find it very heavy. 
I've been having rotator cuff problems on an off after long stints of photography handheld with 70-200 or 100-400II ( I often just do too long a stint without taking a rest).
The 300 2.8 II feels much lighter to me to hold than a 600 F4 II. 
I'll be resting it off the top of a van with a bean backg most likely but you still have to move the camera and lens up and down and do the odd thing handheld.
While it would be a shame to have a 600 F4 II and not bring it on a safari I'm concerned it will be a pain weight wise.
Did anyone have a similar conflict on safari (Kenya I think is a bit more wide open than other locations)?
Anyone use a 300mm 2.8 II combination with extenders (1.4 and 2.0 III)?
Any recommendation would be welcome and I need to make a final decision soon and stick with it.
I will bring the 100-400mm with me.
I'll have a 5D IV and need to decide between a 5DSR and 7DII as the second camera.
I was half thinking 7D II 300 2.8 and 2.0 extender but I've never tried that combination.


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## AlanF (Jul 23, 2018)

The 300mm f/2.8 II works very well with extenders indeed. I decided to trade mine for a 400mm f/4 DO II (+ 1.4 and 2xTC work easily as well) because of the extra range, which is very good on the 5DIV. If you have the 100-400mm then you will be able to deal with close ups any way.

The 7DII is an excellent camera, and I got much use out of mine. For me though, the 5DSR is now the better option. It definitely has the edge on IQ and you can squeeze more out of it when cropping distant wildlife. I also like that it combines the field of view of a FF and the reach of the crop, although it isn't as fast with fps. A 400mm on the 5DSR will give you the field of view of a 250mm on a crop.

f/2.8 does give you an extra stop over f/4, which at first sight would seem an advantage at dawn or dusk. But, if you can fit the view from a 400mm into the frame, you can shoot at a stop higher iso and downsize to the same noise level.

By the way, even though the 5DSR goes up to only iso6400, it has sufficient dynamic range that you can underexpose by a stop or 2 and push in post. I highly recommend DxO photolabs for both the 7DII and 5DSR as it really takes care of the noise at higher isos when shooting RAW.


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## edoorn (Jul 23, 2018)

I used a 300 2.8 with extenders last year in Zambia/Bots in combination with the 100-400. The 100-400 is the more flexible lens although the 2.8 of the 300 is great for low light (plus it's an amazing lens). Mind you, the very low light levels are usually early morning and evening; sun rises and sets quite fast in Kenya 

Coupled with the 100-400 I would take the 600, since my experience was I used the 300 mostly with the 2x extender, so basically as a 600 prime. After last year I decided to sell the 300 so I could fund a 500 (I don't shoot primarily birds so the 500 is good for me) and loved the combination in January in the Mara with the 100-400. It's ok to shoot; not as light as the 300 but noticeably lighter than a 600. In the vehicles you'll probably shoot from a bean bag, not hand held. 

Both options will get you great shots!


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## Hector1970 (Jul 23, 2018)

Thanks Edoorn and AlanF.
I'm still conflicted but all opinions will help me make a final decision.
It's a long time since I was on Safari and it was in Tanzania in 2000 (wow 18 years ago already).
Back then it was film and 200mm seemed to be a long lens.
In Tanzania things we very close but maybe I couldn't spot the things faraway.
I believe Kenya animals are further back.
Safaris vehicles are also supposed to be way more numerous than they were.
I just don't know how hard it is to work with a 600mm lens that heavy for many hours a day.
It's not that I can't lift it. It's more that extra 2KG really seems to take its toll quickly...

I was interested in opinions on the 7DII versus 5DSR too. 
I think both a great in plenty of light but both a similarly poor in low light but by default the 5DSR limits it upper limit on ISO to 6400 (but it can be extended to 12800).
Would I need 10 FPS on Safari - Cheetahs running etc..


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## PCM-madison (Jul 23, 2018)

I own both a 7D II and 5DS R, and I've used them both with the 100-400 II, 300 F2.8 IS II, and extenders. I would definitely go with the 5DS R. It is better than the 7D II in many ways including image quality, focus performance with the lenses/extenders mentioned in your post, and low light performance (frame rate being the only thing better about the 7D II). For low light, it is true that the 5DS R gives little pixel-level advantage at high iso over the 7D II. However, if you re-size 5DS R images to the same size as the 7D II, the 5DS R has much better low light image quality. Since I got my 5DS R, I almost never use the 7D II even for sports and wildlife. Hope this helps, and have a great trip.


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## AlanF (Jul 23, 2018)

PCM-madison said:


> I own both a 7D II and 5DS R, and I've used them both with the 100-400 II, 300 F2.8 IS II, and extenders. I would definitely go with the 5DS R. It is better than the 7D II in many ways including image quality, focus performance with the lenses/extenders mentioned in your post, and low light performance (frame rate being the only thing better about the 7D II). For low light, it is true that the 5DS R gives little pixel-level advantage at high iso over the 7D II. However, if you re-size 5DS R images to the same size as the 7D II, the 5DS R has much better low light image quality. Since I got my 5DS R, I almost never use the 7D II even for sports and wildlife. Hope this helps, and have a great trip.



+1, and it's a myth that the 5DSR has poor low light performance. Downresolved to the same number of megapixels, it is as good as the 5DIV.


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## xps (Jul 23, 2018)

Hector1970 said:


> H All,
> I asked one or two of the members about advice as to what lens to bring on a safari.
> I was recommended to bring the 600 F4 II to Kenya.
> It's a great lens and usually I have it on a tripod and wimberly head.
> ...


Hello Mr. Hector!
I´m suffering from similar problems. After an plane crash I´m suffering from neurological deficits for some decades and now Im over 80. So strength is often missing. 
When I was on Safari back in 2016, it was no problem to organize the help of an Ranger, who built up my tripod and my 500mm lens on some of the Observation platforms.
In the Jeeps it was more difficult and I often had severe problems by holding the body and lens. So I used the 300mm 2.8 most of the time, with 1.4 and 2.0 extenders. And it was especially an good combo in twilight.
One other older photographer had two clamps (for windows and to clip it on the steel pipes of the Jeep) with an tripod head and an bean bag with him. He leaned me one and it was an great help for me. You can find such products in the www. 

Definitively, the 5DSR is the better choice. On our Safari, nearly almost all animals were not as fast as birds, so AF performance was not the question. But the win in imagequality at dawn was worth the extra weight.


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## Mikehit (Jul 23, 2018)

I have not been on safari in Kenya but one comment I have read repeatedly is the space available in the vehicles to wield big lenses like the 600mm f4. Some vehicles have seating platforms on something like outriggers but if you are in the middle of a 'communal' seating it will be tougher - it is worth contacting the tour company to find out about seating.


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## Hector1970 (Jul 24, 2018)

Thanks for all the comments.
I think the transport is a Toyota Van with a roof that pushes up.
Did anyone use a 600mm F4 in such circumstances. It’s 5 passengers in the vehicle.


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## edoorn (Jul 24, 2018)

it will greatly depend on the type of trip and the operator. 

The mini vans are indeed not the most comfortable photography vehicles; they usually have quite some people in them and the sides are not fully open. Photography oriented trips in the mara usually have no more than 3 guests in a vehicle so each one has a full seat row to themselves and use landcruisers that are fully open sided. I always insist on this on my trips there.


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## Hector1970 (Jul 24, 2018)

Yes it was a Jeep in Tanzania all those years ago which is somehow more in keeping with a real Safari.’
I have visions of dropping lens and camera overboard. I’m can’t remembet how potentially easy that is to do.
Camera gear was a lot lighter in the year 2000.


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## tron (Jul 24, 2018)

Not same experience (substitute birding for safari) but the 400mm f.4 DO II with 5DsR rocks for IQ and weight. I got 5DsR in addition to 7DII based on Alan's experience and I am happy about it. The IQ is much better at lower ISO ( say up to 1000 or so, up to 1600) and equivalent to 7D2 at higher levels. But I cannot stress enough the less weight and the short length of the 400 DO II how much a portable combination makes it (compared to other big white = 500 or 600, solutions)


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## AlanF (Jul 24, 2018)

tron said:


> Not same experience (substitute birding for safari) but the 400mm f.4 DO II with 5DsR rocks for IQ and weight. I got 5DsR in addition to 7DII based on Alan's experience and I am happy about it. The IQ is much better at lower ISO ( say up to 1000 or so, up to 1600) and equivalent to 7D2 at higher levels. But I cannot stress enough the less weight and the short length of the 400 DO II how much a portable combination makes it (compared to other big white = 500 or 600, solutions)



For our birding safari in Tanzania, my wife will use the 5DSR + 100-400mm II (mainly without a TC). It’s nearly as good as the 400 DO II at 400mm but the DO leaps ahead with a 1.4xTC in IQ and AF. This will cover us for zooming and close ups down to a metre. It’s a fabulous combination. I’ll use the 5DIV with the DO + TCs. To be frank, I’d prefer a second 5DSR as I love it at 560mm. But, the 5DIV never lets me down with BIF, although the DSR is very good too.


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## DavidA (Jul 25, 2018)

*Re: 600 F4 II or 300 F2.8 II and extenders for a Safari k*

I have been on two safaris in Africa that included SA, Botswana, Rwanda, and Tanzania where I found that 560mm met 95% of my shooting needs. I carried the Canon 200 - 400 w1.4x TC and 100-400 II as my primary lenses on both safaris. I was in a group of 4 on both trips which was ideal for the vehicles used on safari. I only had one animal sighting and a few birds in Tanzania where the 560mm didn’t meet my needs. Atmospherics becomes the biggest issue with the long lenses in dusty environments. I have shot alll of the big whites at some point on wildlife trips.

I borrowed the 400 DO f4 II last year for an air show and it is an awesome lens for IQ, AF and lightweight versatility. Most of my shots were with the 1.4x TC III and they were all incredibly sharp. Not scientific, but I would call the DO II + 1.4x TC III @ 560mm sharper than native 100-400 II. All of my lens / camera combinations are calibrated by Canon or a local lab with/without TC’s. I haven’t done the 300mm 2.8 II combination, but I am going to borrow the DO again to retest with 2x TC before my next safari. I love my 200-400, but it is heavy and bulky.

Btw - bean bags on roof seem to be most common solution in Tanzania.


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## HPL (Jul 25, 2018)

I just came back from our fifth safari in Africa. My wife and I had a 7dII and a 5dIV with us. Most of the time I used the 100-400 II with or without TC 1.4 on a 5dIV. Long focal lengths are good us earlier discussed, but I want to point out another aspect.
In several cases bigger animals come so close that you want to have a shorter focal length on your camera. In such situations a FF camera is better than a crop camera like 7dII with the same lens attached. With shorter lengths I mean <100 mm on FF.


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## AlanF (Jul 25, 2018)

HPL said:


> I just came back from our fifth safari in Africa. My wife and I had a 7dII and a 5dIV with us. Most of the time I used the 100-400 II with or without TC 1.4 on a 5dIV. Long focal lengths are good us earlier discussed, but I want to point out another aspect.
> In several cases bigger animals come so close that you want to have a shorter focal length on your camera. In such situations a FF camera is better than a crop camera like 7dII with the same lens attached. With shorter lengths I mean <100 mm on FF.



I do waiver between taking two 100-400mm IIs with us rather than 100-400mm II and the 400mm DO II for our 5DIV and 5DSR, both for the small weight saving and the ability to zoom and have close-ups for both of us. Neither choice would be a disaster. What would you advise? (The weight restrictions on the internal flight worry me, 15 kg each of us.)


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## Mikehit (Jul 25, 2018)

AlanF said:


> HPL said:
> 
> 
> > I just came back from our fifth safari in Africa. My wife and I had a 7dII and a 5dIV with us. Most of the time I used the 100-400 II with or without TC 1.4 on a 5dIV. Long focal lengths are good us earlier discussed, but I want to point out another aspect.
> ...



Hmm... your 400 DOii or the wife's 100-400.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhyrjbvDHT8


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Jul 25, 2018)

Hector1970 said:


> H All,
> I asked one or two of the members about advice as to what lens to bring on a safari.
> I was recommended to bring the 600 F4 II to Kenya.
> It's a great lens and usually I have it on a tripod and wimberly head.
> ...



I'm off to Kenya next month. I've done safari's a bunch of times and this is what I'm bringing.

1DX2 * 2
EF 400 f/2.8L IS II
1.4 TC
2.0 TC
70-300L
Leica Q for a wide

In the past I've used the 200-400, 400 DO, 600 & 800.... the 400 2.8 just gives such a unique portrait look of animals and it performs flawlessly with TC's.... it is heavy though.

I'd probably take the 300 f/2.8 over the 600 f/4... there are times you'll wish you had the 600, but there will be more times you wished you could be more mobile in the vehicle. Depending on the number of people in it, it can fill up quite quickly.

Some vehicles are open on the sides, others have a popup top and windows down below. If there are windows, moving that 600 down and out the window will be annoying, but not impossible. If you could find out what sort of vehicle you'll be in, that could help you out.


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## scottkinfw (Jul 26, 2018)

Hector1970 said:


> H All,
> I asked one or two of the members about advice as to what lens to bring on a safari.
> I was recommended to bring the 600 F4 II to Kenya.
> It's a great lens and usually I have it on a tripod and wimberly head.
> ...



Hi Hector and congratulations on your trip- I am jealous and happy for you.

I have been twice to Kenya's southern neighbor, Tanzania, and once to South Africa. Here are my thoughts.
My biggest lens is a 300 2.8 II is, and a 400 5.6 (old lens). I don't like to use extenders though I have a 1.4 X II.

First consider weight and size restrictions, usually 20 kg. You should have a bag that fits overhead (ThinkTank rollers for example are great). I always recommend a safari vest to offload weight, as a safari vest is not counted as luggage. Of course you may also buy a second seat.

That all said, my 300 was usually more than good enough. The animal encounters generally close in and many times the 300 was too close!

I would recommend strongly discussing this issue with your safari outfitter so you can make a good choice for you. Als ask if you can go on a night safari drive-awesine,

So I would recommend two bodies. I take my 1DXII and 5DIII. I also keep my 300 on the 1DXII and usually a 24-70 2.8 II on the 5DII so I am good close in and far off. Alternatively, a 70 to 200 will also do great. 

I am sure others will have alternate thoughts, but size and weight will always limit what you can bring, and in your case, will affect your comfort. For me, the big problem is what to leave behind, not what to take. I think with all you are saying. you might want to consider leaving the 600 home. Tough choices.

Have fun.

Scott


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## AlanF (Jul 26, 2018)

Mikehit said:


> AlanF said:
> 
> 
> > HPL said:
> ...



It's the 400mm DO II + 100-400mm II vs 2 100-400mm IIs.


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## Hector1970 (Jul 27, 2018)

Thanks for all the great replies. 
The best lens is always the one you left at home.

Yes I'll have two bodies 5D IV and 5DSR or 7DII.
The Vehicle will be a Toyota Hi Ace with a roof that goes up and it will be 5 people in that.
Probably not very squashed but they might need to duck if I swing the 600mm around (with hood attached) 
I've been on Safari in Tanzania so I know what its like.
It can be a bit of an endurance test.
Once the sun is up the 100-400 II can easily do most of the work on mundane things.
The 600 F4 is special (of course its not realistically worth the money but its a great piece of precision engineering).
In Tanzania I wouldn't have needed a 600F4 except maybe for a Rhino in Ngorogoro (which is most amazingly beautiful place (like the Garden of Eden)
You were almost running over animals.
I belive in Kenya its more open and animals at times can be further away.
The 300 F2.8 II is a beautiful lens and feels really light compared to the 600 F4 (but is still a hefty weight).
I've about 6 weeks to go, maybe if I hit the gym I'd be ready for the 600 

Whichever one I take I'll have to live with it but it will be a great experience nonetheless.
I can't wait to see the sky at night.


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## AlanF (Jul 27, 2018)

Hector
You are the one to give me some advice. It’s Ngorongoro that my wife and I are off to, and we’ll be taking a 5DSR and 5DIV. Do we take a pair of 100-400s or one and the 400mm DO II? What are those vehicles like?
Thanks, Alan.


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## scottkinfw (Jul 27, 2018)

AlanF said:


> Hector
> You are the one to give me some advice. It’s Ngorongoro that my wife and I are off to, and we’ll be taking a 5DSR and 5DIV. Do we take a pair of 100-400s or one and the 400mm DO II? What are those vehicles like?
> Thanks, Alan.



Hi Alan

I've been to the crater twice. Most animal encounters are up close and personal. Regarding prime vs. zoom, it would depend on what your other lens is. If you are happy with the zoom image vs. the prime, the zoom is more versatile, lighter, smaller, so it is your preference.


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## AlanF (Jul 27, 2018)

scottkinfw said:


> AlanF said:
> 
> 
> > Hector
> ...



Thanks Scott. What about birds?


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## Hector1970 (Jul 29, 2018)

AlanF said:


> Hector
> You are the one to give me some advice. It’s Ngorongoro that my wife and I are off to, and we’ll be taking a 5DSR and 5DIV. Do we take a pair of 100-400s or one and the 400mm DO II? What are those vehicles like?
> Thanks, Alan.



At the time the vehicle was a landrover jeep. A fine platform for taking photographs.
The animals are very close in Ngorogoro.
To be honest I'd say like my self the 100-400 would fine for most cases but the primes will take special photographs a bit different to super zooms. Its hard to beat their sharpness. 
For Ngorogoro a 70-200mm would work really well


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## AlanF (Jul 29, 2018)

Hector1970 said:


> AlanF said:
> 
> 
> > Hector
> ...



Thanks. I am leaning towards the 100-400 II, 400m DO II plus a small camera for close ups, maybe the M5.


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## Hector1970 (Jul 31, 2018)

AlanF said:


> Thanks. I am leaning towards the 100-400 II, 400m DO II plus a small camera for close ups, maybe the M5.


Probably a good idea. M5 would be handy for that.


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## AlanF (Jul 31, 2018)

Hector1970 said:


> Probably a good idea. M5 would be handy for that.



Just bought today an EF-M 18-150mm from a guy on eBay who was splitting an M50 kit at a knockdown price. The lens on testing proved to be excellent, very sharp at 18mm, and as sharp as a 55-250 STM at 150mm. That should give me a good range.


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## Woutje4 (Sep 7, 2018)

Hi Hector, 

Nice trip for you ahead.

A couple of years ago i was in South Africa i've used my 7D with EF 300mm 2.8, my wife was using my old 30D with 24-105mm it was a good combination, see took the overview shots and I took the close up shots. On several safaris the animals were so close I was able to take only head shots and my wife had the total shots.
I don't know the situations in Kenya but in my case 300mm was more than enough. I didn't use any of my converters (1.4x & 2x).

My experience with the 300mm 2.8 and converters is fine but most of the time I want the 2.8 instead of 2 stops less with the 2x converter, so i don't use them often, only with something special and I need more mm's and there is enough light.

When you are planning to go birding often in kenya then you'll need all the mm's you've got, but in my opinion overall you will have fare enough with 300mm.

During the flights I took my Lowepro backpack with all my important photogear (bodies, lenses,binoculars etc) with me as hand luggage (we had 20kg hand and normal luggage with British airways)


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## Hector1970 (Sep 22, 2018)

Just for posterity. I had a great trip to Kenya. In the end I did take the 600 F4II.
It performed great. It is big and heavy and a pain to carry around.
Lifting it up and down was tricky at times due to its length with the hood.
But performance wise it was great. Very sharp. Ideal focal length for birds and smaller animals.
I switch to a second camera with a 100-400 II when they were closer.
A most beautiful country. Some abject poverty but also signs of some progress and a growing middle class.
The variety of birds was great not to mind all the different animals.
It was the experience of a lifetime.


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## JohnGerlach (Dec 26, 2018)

I have led forty photo tours to Kenya and will be going again in Sept of 2019. Animals are used to safari vehicles, so you will often get quite close. I have had young elephants hit the vehicle with their trunks. My main lens is the Canon 200-400mm with built-in 1.4x. It is terrific on safari. You could rent one. I like birds, and many are small, so I also take the Canon 800mm, but likely will switch to the new 600mm III and the new 1.4x converter for my next trip. Also take a 70-200 and 24-70mm. Use bean bags, more than one, and fasten them to the window when on safari as you don't know ahead of time what side you will be shooting out. Hopefully, you have your own row. I only put 3 shooters in a safari vehicle so each has their own row and can easily shoot out either side of the vehicle. Good luck! Clients tell me a Kenya safari is the best trip they have ever gone on!


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