# Mirrorless vs. DSLR Poll



## Ozarker (Aug 24, 2016)

AvTvM keeps saying there is a huge market for a mirror-less camera with the functionality of the 80D.

He keeps saying that all Canon would have to do is make the camera and offer it at $1,000, sit back and rake in the cash and pop the Champagne corks.

He constantly says Canon is stupid for not making such a camera, calling DSLRs "mirror slapping dinosaurs." (Partially paraphrased.

He'd also like them available in pink with unicorns painted on them. 

Here's the chance for the vast mirror-less market to make itself heard.

Forget what you have today. There are only two camera choices, but with the same feature set: Mirror-less Canon or the Canon 80D.

Which would you choose?

I chose option 4: I'd never buy either, but if I had to buy... give me the 80D.


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## Orangutan (Aug 24, 2016)

I think you're asking the wrong question: if there were a mirrorless that really did perform at least as well as the 80D under all conditions then there would be little reason to buy a true reflex. The problem is that mirrorless is still seriously lagging in many areas. AF, battery life, low-light focus are still major problems for many uses. EVF lag is nearly solved.

You've asked the question "would you buy a camera that had all of the advantages & features of an 80D, but without some of the problems." That's an easy question to answer.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 24, 2016)

If a 1D X MK II sold for $25 would you buy it? Asking if I would buy something that is currently technically impossible does not compute.

The performance is the most important, the features are less critical.

If it performed as well as the phase detect AF had a optical viewfinder(currently a non starter), had the same battery life (another impossibility), and a lot of other things that a DSLR does but mirrorless does not, then no one would really care if it was mirrorless or not, it would just be a 80D with no mirror.


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## 3kramd5 (Aug 24, 2016)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> If a 1D X MK II sold for $25 would you buy it? Asking if I would buy something that is currently technically impossible does not compute.
> 
> The performance is the most important, the features are less critical.
> 
> If it performed as well as the phase detect AF had a optical viewfinder(currently a non starter), had the same battery life (another impossibility), and a lot of other things that a DSLR does but mirrorless does not, then no one would really care if it was mirrorless or not, it would just be a 80D with no mirror.



Agreed. I don't care how it does what I want it to do long as it does what I want it to.


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## Luds34 (Aug 24, 2016)

Frankly the poll is kind of limited/flawed.

In my humble opinion, Canon's DSLR and EF lens lineup is 2nd to none as a system and I can't imagine that changing anytime too soon. On the other side of the coin their mirrorless option(s) are the weakest on the market from an enthusiast point of view. And with the recent successor rumors of the M3, it appears it will stay that way.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 24, 2016)

Will this hypothetical mirrorless camera include 80D features like a pentaprism optical viewfinder?


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## Orangutan (Aug 24, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Will this hypothetical mirrorless camera include 80D features like a pentaprism optical viewfinder?



That's one problem with the premise: if we assume it has an EVF that's a flawless substitute for a pentaprism OVF, then it doesn't matter...but that's a huge assumption.


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## Don Haines (Aug 24, 2016)

insufficient data


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## ajfotofilmagem (Aug 24, 2016)

If both cameras have the same AF capabilities, FPS, handling, ergonomics, etc. I could choose mirrorless.

But in the real world, the mirrorless cameras still have performance deficiencies compared to the current 80D.


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## old-pr-pix (Aug 24, 2016)

I already have Olympus mirrorless and Canon DSLR... I look forward to the soon to be released OMD-EM1 Mark II and the 5D Mark IV - both pro-oriented bodies - with high likely-hood of purchasing once the initial offering price drops. I like the fact the M4/3 bodies and lenses can be very small and light yet yield professional results for many applications. However, nothing beats the Canon lens selection and, so far, the AF for fast moving subjects. Why argue? Get both!


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## Luds34 (Aug 24, 2016)

old-pr-pix said:


> Why argue? Get both!



Agreed! Right tool for the job.


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## unfocused (Aug 24, 2016)

Agree with others, this can't be answered. 

You have one real-world camera and one fantasy camera. People can assign and assume any trait they want to the fantasy camera, both positive and negative. Unless you define the fantasy camera it means nothing and unless the description of the fantasy camera is realistic (which no one on this forum would know how to do) it means nothing.


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## IglooEater (Aug 24, 2016)

Does "the same features" include battery life?


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## ajfotofilmagem (Aug 24, 2016)

IglooEater said:


> Does "the same features" include battery life?


Today, it would already be possible. ??? Just make a battery with higher amperage, which will offset the weight that is saved by removing the mirror ... :


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## scottkinfw (Aug 24, 2016)

Then there's the issue of ergonomics. As stated earlier, the current lenses are imho, second to none. I am heavily invested in the lenses and won't give them up to reinvest.

This brings me to another question. If Canon were to develop this mirrorless camera with a mount for my lenses, and the body was designed to handle the larger lenses, I would consider it.

sek


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## Sporgon (Aug 24, 2016)

Well answering in the spirit of the poll, I'd say 80D

I have both mirrorless and dslr, and the fact is that however far forward we move on in the future a mirrorless cannot by definition have a mirror (and pentaprism), but a dslr can be operated without the mirror (via live-view), and so can became a "mirrorless", at least as far as some of the advantage are concerned, especially if you are working on a tripod. 

I think one of mirrorless's greatest appeals is the much slimmer body, but this is then countered by the desire to actually look through the lens optically, and it looks like the latter is going to keep winning for the foreseeable future.

So come on Canon, give us an upmarket replacement for the 100D (SL1) with a good aesthetically pleasing metal body, a proper glass pentaprism and no plastic pop up flash, or at least make it at the same level as the M3, not the current beginner based current SL1.


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## 3kramd5 (Aug 24, 2016)

scottkinfw said:


> Then there's the issue of ergonomics.
> 
> As stated earlier, the current lenses are imho, second to none. I am heavily invested in the lenses and won't give them up to reinvest.
> 
> ...




I'm considering this... conversation as "all else is equal except what can not be."

So: same ergo, same lens mount, and operationally equivalent, but one has a mirror and off-sensor AF capabilities while and the other has only on-sensor AF capabilities, and requires power while composing.

Thus I come back to: don't care, and silly question because canon would have no reason to offer two equivalent products, one with a mirror and the other without.


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## docsmith (Aug 24, 2016)

As my primary camera? Or as a specialty niche camera? I currently have the 5DIII and M1. The M1 is when I want a small or light camera that still takes good pictures. But it is less than 1% of my photos. The 5DIII is >99%.

So, which would I want, I suspect I will always want my primary camera to have an OVF. But I will also likely always want a smaller lighter camera for those select instances.

So, I am voting 80D. But really, I'd likely buy both, just use the 80D (or FF equivalent with OVF) much more.


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## candc (Aug 25, 2016)

Right now ml is better for some things, dslr better for others. I don't expect that is going to change soon but canon could add more live view/mirrorless features like focus peaking. I don't know why they haven't made a dslr that can accept an evf like the one for the M?


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## aceflibble (Aug 25, 2016)

I've been saying for a while, my current ideal camera body would be a 1D shell (preferably the 1Ds mkII's shell) but with the 60/70/80D's articulating screen, and live view performance on par with the Fuji mirrorless cameras. A mirrorless 80D would be halfway there. (If I could superglue the grip on and cut off the bloody mode dial.)


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## Refurb7 (Aug 25, 2016)

Why would I want a crop camera with a battery-sucking laggy-draggy-in-low-light EVF for $1000 when for just a little more I can get a full-frame camera (6D) with a big, beautiful, real-time optical viewfinder? A mirrorless camera has to offer some really compelling advantages in order to make me dump my DSLRs. So far, none of them have succeeded.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 25, 2016)

an 80D based EOS-M would suck inflamed oozing monkey nuts.

god knows why anyone would want it.

the M3 is already bad with color casting because of angles of incident.. yes, let's go make it worse with a even more complicated sensor.

then we have battery life .. the damned thing wouldn't even get to 200 shots with a LP-E17 battery.

The problem is that AvTvM lives in his own patented AvTvM Universe™

if canon actually spent a smidgen of effort on the M3 and fixed the freaking firmware of all the stupid-assed bugs, and did some optimization along the way, it actually would be a nice, small fairly well rounded camera.


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## AcutancePhotography (Aug 25, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> AvTvM keeps saying there is a huge market for a mirror-less camera with the functionality of the 80D.



Perhaps the more cogent question is why do you care so much about what AvTvM says?

People have different opinions. Nothing will change that.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

AcutancePhotography said:


> People have different opinions. Nothing will change that.



True. Some people have the opinion that Earth is flat. Maybe AvTvM should register fullframemirrorlessmarketishugesociety.com – after all, the flat earth society has a website, too.


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## AcutancePhotography (Aug 25, 2016)

I just think that the photography community would benefit if we all paid a little less attention to what other photographers do/don't do or say.


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## Orangutan (Aug 25, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> AcutancePhotography said:
> 
> 
> > People have different opinions. Nothing will change that.
> ...



The late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan is credited with the quote "everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

Orangutan said:


> The late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan is credited with the quote "everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."



I agree. But from that truism, it does not follow that everyone's opinion is equally valid.


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## Orangutan (Aug 25, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > The late Senator Daniel Patrick Moynihan is credited with the quote "everyone is entitled to his own opinion, but not his own facts."
> ...


I assume you mean opinions predicated on wrong facts.


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## IglooEater (Aug 26, 2016)

Orangutan said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Orangutan said:
> ...



Predicated on wrong facts, incorrect epistemology, formal errors, or personal bias.

All opinions are equally valid-as opinions. This does not makes them facts. They are of only subjective value, not objective consequence.

Unfortunately opinion/fact is a slightly false dichotomy, as popularly defined, and there are a lot of gray zones.

This is an interesting read in the New York Times I ran across a while ago: http://mobile.nytimes.com/blogs/opinionator/2015/03/02/why-our-children-dont-think-there-are-moral-facts/?referer=


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## IglooEater (Aug 26, 2016)

Answering in the spirit of OP's question, the 80D. As there is one feature a mirrorless camera by definition, will not have. And that is an optical viewfinder. It might be possible to create a hybrid dslr with a liveview function in the ovf with mirror flipped up, but the converse is not possible with a mirrorless.
Coming from the 60D, I've only wanted my (camera) body to be larger, never smaller. So I might go so far as saying I'd take it all in a 5D IV package.

Now, this all stands until a mirrorless camera is released with real advantages over a DSLR.


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