# So... Sony just dropped their Juggernaut!



## Bokehmon (Aug 24, 2011)

Boom!

http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/24/sony-unveils-nex-7-24-3-mp-sensor-oled-viewfinder-1199-price/
http://www.engadget.com/2011/08/24/sony-alpha-a77-hands-on-preview-video/
http://www.dpreview.com/news/1108/11082420sonyslta77preview.asp
http://www.dpreview.com/news/1108/11082419sonynex7overview.asp

Both cameras look absolutely amazing for their price range. One thing to note is that the A77 has a 1.09x 100% EVF, and 12fps. This can only be good for all of us as the ante has just been upped!


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## leGreve (Aug 24, 2011)

Way to go Sony  Since I bought the FS100, I'm looking more and more at these guys. They have the potential to reclaim what they started in the dawn of time.

Will be interesting to see Canons response to this.

60p... and 12fps woot


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## caruser (Aug 24, 2011)

Bokehmon said:


> Boom!
> ...
> This can only be good for all of us as the ante has just been upped!



Yeah, either there will be something interesting from Canon to upgrade to, or I'll have to closely inspect Sony's offerings. They also released a 50mm f/1.8 with IS!


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## Gothmoth (Aug 24, 2011)

caruser said:


> Yeah, either there will be something interesting from Canon to upgrade to, or I'll have to closely inspect Sony's offerings. They also released a 50mm f/1.8 with IS!



one thing i donÂ´t understand is people who always think about switching to a different brand when a new camera comes out.

i mean... you donÂ´t have much from the canon system (bodys, lenses)?
if you have, do you really think about selling everything and buy into a new system?

i mean i sell everything from nikon, canon, leica to panasonic. 
but personally im a canon shooter since my childhood days.

i often found cameras fom nikon very tempting.
but even as a owner of a camera shop, who sells used stuff too, i never thought about switching to nikon.

and why should i? or why should a nikon user switch to canon when he has build a decent nikon system?

for a few month nikon may has a better camera... then canon comes out with a better camera and takes the lead for a few month... then the games repeats itself.

i have my camera system to make photos not to mastrubate over my gear.
but i guess in internet forums like this the real photographer are a minority.
gear heads seem to rule the internet forums. 
people who are more busy selling and buying cameras then making pictures.

and now a word to sony DSLR cameras...
ok i sell them but i donÂ´t recommend them.

sony cameras have some issues and sony is not very eager to fix them.
instead you can buy new cameras. but donÂ´t expect sony to be very helpful *after* you bought a product.

the canon support alone is worth more to me then any new feature in the new sony a77.


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## bycostello (Aug 24, 2011)

everyone seems to announcing and about to announce.. like the look of the nex7... very nice...


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## Mark D5 TEAM II (Aug 24, 2011)

Wow, too bad this system has only a handful of overpriced lenses and ultra-overpriced Zeiss lenses . Congrats to Sony for breaking the 7D's low ISO noise levels...  Lulz.


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## Canon 14-24 (Aug 24, 2011)

next is a nex9 full frame with a couple pancake primes at a third of the price of a m9?!


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## NormanBates (Aug 24, 2011)

Gothmoth said:


> one thing i donÂ´t understand is people who always think about switching to a different brand when a new camera comes out.
> 
> i mean... you donÂ´t have much from the canon system (bodys, lenses)?



no, I don't: I purposedly try to be as vendor-agnostic as I can

for example, this is my lens set: 18-55 kit lens, 35mm, 50mm, 90mm, 135mm, 180mm, 300mm
all those primes are leitz vintage lenses for the leica-R mount, and they will work on canon, nikon, sony alpha, sony nex, m43, you name it (except the 50mm which is M42 and doesn't work on nikon, and maybe sony alpha)

so I just have to sell a body with kit lens, battery grip, and two extra batteries, and burn $150 on a new set of lens mount adaptors

(you'll notice I'm lacking on the wide end of things; that's precisely because I didn't want to buy the tokina 11-16 and be stuck with a specific lens mount, so I'm delaying that purchase as much as I can, and it's looking like that strategy will pay off)

next: Nikon and Canon, bring out your best shots or be damned!!



edit: oh, and now that I'm at it...

thereâ€™s a bunch of very detailed previews at dpreview:
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/sonyslta77/
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/sonyslta65/
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/sonynex5n/

* the PAL versions donâ€™t have 60p, 30p or 24p, just 50p and 25p
* the NTSC versions donâ€™t have 25p or 30p, but 24p at 24 Mbps should look great
* the tilt screen seems more limited than the one in the canons (doesn't seem like it can be located on the left side of the camera?)

and also, this is a great EOSHD post on which lenses can work on an alpha mount; very useful:
http://www.eoshd.com/content/3661/do-your-lenses-adapt-to-the-sony-a77-a-mount


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## Sunnystate (Aug 24, 2011)

Exciting!
Really fascinating times are here already, thanks Sony... Can't wait for the market response, if only there will be some super wide angle lenses in reasonable sizes available for those.


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## recon photography (Aug 24, 2011)

smokes! get your game on canon thats insane


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## NormanBates (Aug 24, 2011)

Sunnystate said:


> Exciting!
> Really fascinating times are here already, thanks Sony... Can't wait for the market response, if only there will be some super wide angle lenses in reasonable sizes available for those.



I guess you're talking about the nex ones, and don't want to use an adapter
if not, the tokina 11-16 f/2.8 is made with a sony alpha mount!
http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/687279-REG/Tokina_ATX116PRODXS_11_16mm_f_2_8_AT_X_116.html


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## gene_can_sing (Aug 24, 2011)

I'm glad that Sony is kicking butt. This will force Canon to do something or be left behind. I think it's strange how so many Canon users on this forum get all bent out of shape when other companies like Sony are praised for raising the bar.

Don't you realize, this is a good? Most people who are vested in a system (like myself) cannot just jump ship, but it's nice that there are better cameras being made now (especially video) and the option for a future jump is there.

For me, jumping ship is not really an option since I'm vested in Canon gear. BUT, what Canon does have to worry about are the new photographers who are un-vested in a system yet. At this point of the game, if a new photographer is deciding between the aged 7D or the new Sony, I would say that Sony can look very, very appealing.

Sony is out for blood, and in the end we all win, regardless of whether you jump ship or stay with Canon.


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## aj1575 (Aug 24, 2011)

Definitly nice specs for the Camera. It will be interesting to have on in my hands to try out. But switch to Sony? Why switch at all? Canon and Nikon will respond with similar specs. So I hope in 1 - 1 1/2 years when I plan to replace my EOS 350D, Canon will have something nice in this range (a EOS 70D).

But up until then *I*(not my camera) will take some nice pictures with my trusty old EOS 350D (which has some nice glas attached to it)


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## justicend (Aug 24, 2011)

Megapixel war is not over yet, next canon with 30MP APS-C sensor ???


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## sb (Aug 24, 2011)

LOL this camera is a perfect "consumer bait"... 3D video and still modes - YAY! Now you can compete with LG tablets both in features and image quality!


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## UncleFester (Aug 24, 2011)

Cute. But just another dslr. 

A Sony rangefinder, however, would have been interesting.


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## Fleetie (Aug 24, 2011)

*A77 : Is it a true SLR? What's the mirror for?*

So, if the A77 has a purely electronic viewfinder, what's the mirror there for?

Just for the AF system? And if so, why is it half-silvered and not fully-silvered?

Thanks,

Martin


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## -zero- (Aug 24, 2011)

> So... Sony just dropped their Juggernaut!



ouch, did it break?

(sory I couldn't resist )


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## awinphoto (Aug 24, 2011)

*Re: A77 : Is it a true SLR? What's the mirror for?*



Fleetie said:


> So, if the A77 has a purely electronic viewfinder, what's the mirror there for?
> 
> Just for the AF system? And if so, why is it half-silvered and not fully-silvered?
> 
> ...



Kinda like the 7D... ?


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## NormanBates (Aug 24, 2011)

*Re: A77 : Is it a true SLR? What's the mirror for?*



Fleetie said:


> So, if the A77 has a purely electronic viewfinder, what's the mirror there for?
> 
> Just for the AF system? And if so, why is it half-silvered and not fully-silvered?
> 
> ...




I think it's just fot the AF system, and it has to be translucent because it doesn't get out of the way when taking pictures (or feeding an image to the live view LCD/EVF)

this means you lose 1/3 stop of light on the sensor; but it also means it's much more difficult for dust to get to your sensor (eventually, it will get there, and it will be more difficult to get rid of it, but that probably will take longer than the camera will stay with me; in the meantime, I'll be much less worried when changing lenses in a windy day in the countryside: the mirror is much easier to clean than the sensor)

edit: another nice thing about this translucent mirror tech: AF doesn't stop working while you're taking pictures, so this one shoots 12fps whith autofocus
as seen here: http://www.amazon.com/gp/mpd/permalink/mL6KZXE96MW1


now, about those "canon and nikon will bring out something similar soon" arguments...
what you're saying amounts to: "yes, those iphones and android thingys are great, but nokia surely is an amazing company, my last 4 phones were from them and they were great for their time; they surely will respond with similar specs" - or will they?
if at least canon and nikon showed us what they're working on, maybe, just maybe, I'd be tempted to wait for them; if they don't bring anything out, I just have to wait to see if this baby is just as good as it looks like


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## macfly (Aug 24, 2011)

I've already dumped the garbage G12 and my new Nex7 is on order. Canon have lost me in the section of the market, and with the lack of EOS 1Ds news they may well loose me altogether now.


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## DavidRiesenberg (Aug 24, 2011)

The spec list looks great but something is iffy with the sample shots. They look too processed. Like they use too much NR and sharpening. At first I thought it is just sloppy job on dpreview's part but imaging-resource shows the same thing.


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## Bokehmon (Aug 24, 2011)

-zero- said:


> > So... Sony just dropped their Juggernaut!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



probably, isn't fully made out of magnesium...


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## papa-razzi (Aug 24, 2011)

DavidRiesenberg said:


> The spec list looks great but something is iffy with the sample shots. They look too processed. Like they use too much NR and sharpening. At first I thought it is just sloppy job on dpreview's part but imaging-resource shows the same thing.



Sony is a marketing machine and focuses on specs to lure in customers - yet the products often do not perform to the level of their specs. I spent some time in the consumer electronics industry (amps, receivers, etc.) and Sony's gear in a price range always had better published specs, but often did not perform as well as other vendors products with lesser published specs. I did side by side comparisons on some receivers and was amazed that the Sony receiver was a poorer product all around when according to specs it should have outperformed the competitor's product easily.

I was a Sony fanboy since they first came out with the Sony walkman, but the Sony brand as of late isn't delivering on what the brand originally represented - at least to me - which was highest quality, innovative products for slightly more money. They are still a good vendor/company, but for me the bloom is off the rose. It is not a given that it is an excellent product just because it has the Sony name.


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## Mike Ca (Aug 24, 2011)

*Re: A77 : Is it a true SLR? What's the mirror for?*



Fleetie said:


> So, if the A77 has a purely electronic viewfinder, what's the mirror there for?
> 
> Just for the AF system? And if so, why is it half-silvered and not fully-silvered?
> 
> ...



The mirror is just for the AF system. This has advantages and disadvantages. The AF system can function while pictures are being taken. This can in principal make something like AF servo work better at high frame rates. For video shooters this allows continuous AF while shooting video. 

The downside is you can not have an optical viewfinder, only an electronic viewfinder. The electronic viewfinder reduces your battery life. The mirror reduces light to the sensor.

As I recall independent reviews of the last generation of Sony mirror less cameras said that the Sony AF system didn't really live up to the expectations. In continuous shooting the AF system did not work as well as the Canon or Nikon AF systems in DSLRs. Shooting video the AF had problems tracking focus. Hopefully, Sony has worked out some of those problems in this new camera.


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## thejoyofsobe (Aug 24, 2011)

*Re: A77 : Is it a true SLR? What's the mirror for?*



NormanBates said:


> this means you lose 1/3 stop of light on the sensor; but it also means it's much more difficult for dust to get to your sensor (eventually, it will get there, and it will be more difficult to get rid of it, but that probably will take longer than the camera will stay with me; in the meantime, I'll be much less worried when changing lenses in a windy day in the countryside: the mirror is much easier to clean than the sensor)


but the mirror is down on an SLR when you change lenses anyway. i mean i look at the pictures of their SLT bodies and I see similar gaps on the side and bottom to SLRs that dust would go through. or is their SLT design more airtight in ways that aren't readily apparent? what would annoy me is that there'd now be two surfaces which affect image quality that can collect dust instead of just one. it's annoying enough to clean a sensor let alone also have to worry about a mirror.



then throw in the overheating problems their previous SLTs had that even flared up when not shooting video because the weather is hot (I live in Florida), the adjustment to an EVF, the diminished battery life and light loss. I got enough concerns that'd would need to be assuaged before considering even a similar Canon SLT with an EF mount if they ever made one.


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## Zerg2905 (Aug 24, 2011)

After the Walkman there was someting that made Sony genius(es) scratch its (their) head (heads): it's called iPod; followed by iPhone; followed by iPad; followed by...

Sony might be the "800 pound electronics industry gorilla" (to quote The Luminous Lanscape article) but let's say that in photo, serious photo, they are not quite there yet. And they need not just one innovation, but a few dozens more.

My point is not to drop your current C or N gear just yet. If you think that the two old crows (Canon & Nikon) cannot make a "wundercamera" you are quite wrong. They can. But it is not a matter of possibility & tech, but of price; you cannot have a 36 MP FF shooting at 20 FPS and at ISO 102000 or more and filming in FULL HD (or maybe not, 21:9 or 2560/1080 will do great too - ouch, it was Philips that implemented that first hand and not Sony, right?...) for 2000 USD... 

CANON EOS 1V (35 mm film SLR) was able to shoot at 10 FPS FF. A decade ago; with 45 AF points etc, tank-like construction etc; NIKON F6 - a monster camera; again, just think about price - here is the real war.

Cheers.

Z.


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## ZeuZ (Aug 24, 2011)

I my modest opinion it doesn't really matter what kind of bodies Sony delivers. In the end it's all about the sensor and the efficiency of the batter. At this moment the sensors of Sony are good, some might say better  and that what makes Sony for the pro's more interesting. And yes their bodies are quite ravishing, one can compare it to a miss competition where you're looking at the bikini contest part, but every body needs a content which shows the quality underneath. The question will be, can you Canon do it? (And of course mix it with some nice curves like Sony did.)

ZeuZ


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## skitron (Aug 24, 2011)

The video and the video autofocus on the a77 look pretty good to me. The stills didn't impress me and the 5D2 looked much better in comparison (but then it should have been compared to a 7D or 60D to be fair). But I'd take a hard look at a77 as a video DSLR based on those clips if Canon fails to bring comparable performance. Sadly, I'm guessing in the video autofocus dept, Canon is probably not going to even come close. Sony claims they had to do the translucent mirror technology to make it work and there are no rumors of Canon doing that. I'll wait to see what 5D3 offers, but I suspect it will be not much different than 5D2 in terms of video autofocus. I sincerely hope I'm wrong about this.

Gotta hand it to Sony for tackling what is "the biggest fly in the ointment" for the average DSLR video shooter (as opposed to indie shooter) in getting a good autofocus system. Sony also tackled "the biggest fly in the ointment" for the average camcorder shooter in creating what is imo hands down the best IS system for a camcorder on the market in the CX550. I've had that camcorder a year now and still utterly amazed I can get 10X zoom handheld that is pretty close to tripod and 1X walk-around that looks not that much different than dolly. Obviously not the same as tripod and dolly but simply amazing just how close you can get.


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## Sunnystate (Aug 24, 2011)

Zerg2905 said:


> After the Walkman there was someting that made Sony genius(es) scratch its (their) head (heads): it's called iPod; followed by iPhone; followed by iPad; followed by...
> 
> Sony might be the "800 pound electronics industry gorilla" (to quote The Luminous Lanscape article) but let's say that in photo, serious photo, they are not quite there yet. And they need not just one innovation, but a few dozens more.
> 
> ...



This is not some pissing contest or some funky brad loyalty issues.
Olympus, Panasonic or Samsung mirrorless cameras were not in any means a game changers, but this new Sony begins to be a serious problem, and really has potential to turn large portion of a market away from both, high end point and shoot and low to mid range SLRs. 
Just give me one with compact super wide lens and, I will ditch my still bulky Rebel with his holster bag for ever, as my companion for daily walks with my dog to shoot opportunistic landscapes.


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## dr croubie (Aug 25, 2011)

So it's APS-C, and $1400, so going to compete against the 7D basically.
24MP vs 18MP win.
12fps vs 8fps win (even beating the 1D4 there).
GPS vs none win (but lose if you don't care and can't switch it off to save battery life).
50/60fps 1080p video win. (but only 28MBPS, up from 24MBPS in 24/25fps? more compression = bad?)
19pt AF/11cross vs 19pt/19cross lose (just on numbers, we'll see how well it works later).
In camera-panorama win if you like it, don't care if you'd rather stitch in-PC
Sensor-based IS win for old lenses, lose for battery life and heat.
ISO 50-25,600 (I always remember a TDP quote, just because you *can*, doesn't mean you *should*).
Selectable ISO range in AutoISO win (my mum's 6-year old IST *DL can, 550D too, why can't my 7D?)
5-frame AE bracketing win.
1200-zone metering win? 7D is 63-zone in viewfinder, not sure about in live-view.
30-1/8000s, 1/250s flash same.
Flash GN 12 (i think 7D is GN15?)
*Buffer 13 JPG shots big lose* (maybe blame the SD card?)
Battery life 400 shots viewfinder lose (7D is 1000 shots i believe).
Electronic viewfinder lose for me, battery life and dark-tracking main reasons. Depends if it's worth the extra 12FPS to you.

Ergonomics are always personal, and you'll learn to use what you've got after a few months. Personally, i'm sticking with my 7D. But yay for Sony, hopefully it's lit a fire under their 7Dmk2 development team, I expect nothing less that 28MP 9FPS 25ptAF for $1500 now.


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## awinphoto (Aug 25, 2011)

dr croubie said:


> So it's APS-C, and $1400, so going to compete against the 7D basically.
> 24MP vs 18MP win.
> 12fps vs 8fps win (even beating the 1D4 there).
> GPS vs none win (but lose if you don't care and can't switch it off to save battery life).
> ...



Keep dreaming with your 7d2 expectations... We still need to see IF the 24mp vs 18mp is truely a win if the image looks like crap. Also can the 12FPS keep up with the AF and lock focus or does it just shoot a burst without AF change? GPS i dont care about and 19 pt AF is where it should be... Other than that, no level, no flash commander... the 7d still shines on.


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## EYEONE (Aug 25, 2011)

awinphoto said:


> dr croubie said:
> 
> 
> > So it's APS-C, and $1400, so going to compete against the 7D basically.
> ...



Agreed.

I think that 24mp will end up being a lose.


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## NormanBates (Aug 25, 2011)

canon's 50 Mbps codec is very lousy, it delivers worse images than many 24 Mbps codecs (the ones on actual videocameras), so my guess is that it will be a win for sony there

but that's not really the important part for video: is line skipping really gone?

dpreview has updated some info, in particular adding a 1080p60 sample from the A77 (direct download of the camera video file, I think) and a further explanation of what the swivel screen can do:
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/sonyslta77/page8.asp
not the best sample I could imagine, but quite useful
in particular, I don't see any aliasing/moire


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## alipaulphotography (Aug 25, 2011)

Canon 14-24 said:


> next is a nex9 full frame with a couple pancake primes at a third of the price of a m9?!



This would be super nice


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