# EOS M5: A damnend good camera!



## JoFT (Jan 9, 2017)

I do have my copy of the EOS M5 since nearly 2 weeks. I must say "Chapeau Canon"!!! The M5 is a really good camera. It is a lot of fun to work with the camera and it is delivering extremely good images. 

I can compare pretty well with other leading mirrorless cameras - the Panasonic µ43. I do own the GX80 and have 7 years of experience with the µ43 system: It is nice and excellent to carry with you. And I own 3 generations of 5D´s as well as 2 generations of 7D´s. In terms of APS-C: The M5 ist the best offering of Canon (of course in addition to the 80D). It is a better add-on to a 5D4 than the 7D2 is. It is just a tiny little always with you thing - like my 43. But I need not to support 2 worlds.

The charm of the systems comes best with native EOS-M lenses. There are not many but nice ones. I have now

EF-M 22mm f2.0
EF-M 28mm f3.5 macro
Rokinon 12mm f2
With this lenses I cover most of the cases. And I can add my EF-glass whenever I need... And the camera is great with the 35mm f1.4L II or the Milvus lenses.... It works just great. And the confidence in autofocus is best in class!!! (Not the speed)

Of course there are some curiosities in the system which Canon should improve:

The camera does not transfer exif data of 3rd party lenses (f.i. my Zeiss Milvus 50mm f1.4 does not show up with proper data)
AK-Swiss seems to be unknown @ Canon: with such an tripod adapter mounted an exchange of battery as well as an SD card is impossible
Time Lapse does not work with internal recording
HDR mode is there but it is impossible to store the raw-files.
Using a Yongnuo flash transmitter (622TX) results in a pretty strange behavior of the M5: if you try to open the external flash menu the screen gets dark - and the camera makes some strange noise.
And there are some topics I am missing in the Canon mirrorless world - but I hope this is going to come...

no IBIS
no 4k Video
no fully articulated screen
no weather sealing
relatively slow autofocus 
small viewfinder
To give you an idea about the comparison in image quality between EOS M5/7D2/GX80 one example is attached. This image is developed in a bit weird setting: +5EV, Lights -100%, Shadows +100%....


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## JoFT (Feb 18, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*

If somebody wants to read more: http://bit.ly/2iooJMo


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## IglooEater (Feb 18, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



> IBIS



don't hold your breath...


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Feb 18, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*

What kind of photographer / camera needs +5 stops to develop a image?

I tend to doubt any review based on boosting images by 5 stops, a camera should not be so bad as to make that necessary.

Assuming that it was the photographer that exposed 5 stops under and not the camera, I'd be concerned by slow AF speed, which is something I value along with ability to expose properly and have good IQ.


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## old-pr-pix (Feb 18, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



JoFT said:


> ... The M5 is a really good camera. It is a lot of fun to work with the camera and it is delivering extremely good images. ...
> ... missing in the Canon mirrorless world - but I hope this is going to come...
> 
> no IBIS
> ...


I'm happy to hear you are pleased with the M5. It's good to see Canon making progress with the M series! I also have dual systems - Olympus m43 in my case. I would love to love the M5, except your list of missing items is exactly why I bought into the Olympus system to begin with (well, except for 4K video which I don't need). Plus, the list of top quality Oly and Panasonic pro grade lenses goes far, far beyond the few Canon offerings. Putting adapted EF lenses on a small mirrorless body just means big, heavy lenses on a small body. 'Til Canon addresses your list I fear I'm stuck with the two systems! Obviously these items are not simple firmware upgrades, they are whole new generations of bodies.

I also don't get the point of your comparison - they all look like crap w/5ev exposure error?!


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## JoFT (Feb 19, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> What kind of photographer / camera needs +5 stops to develop a image?
> 
> I tend to doubt any review based on boosting images by 5 stops, a camera should not be so bad as to make that necessary.
> 
> Assuming that it was the photographer that exposed 5 stops under and not the camera, I'd be concerned by slow AF speed, which is something I value along with ability to expose properly and have good IQ.




This is a test which shows only how much detail is in the shadow areas. I use this method to get information when the noise in the shadows goes up like hell. It clearly indicates the dynamic range and tis noise handling....


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## Jopa (Feb 19, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> What kind of photographer / camera needs +5 stops to develop a image?
> 
> I tend to doubt any review based on boosting images by 5 stops, a camera should not be so bad as to make that necessary.
> 
> Assuming that it was the photographer that exposed 5 stops under and not the camera, I'd be concerned by slow AF speed, which is something I value along with ability to expose properly and have good IQ.



You are old school. According to DPReview it's the main purpose of any camera nowadays. 5 stops is actually old school too. 6 stops is the future. My 5dsr can't even hold up to 4 stops, what a piece of garbage!!! ;D


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## JoFT (Feb 20, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



Jopa said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > What kind of photographer / camera needs +5 stops to develop a image?
> ...




...and I did 5 stops - which is the max LR is offering plus another 2 via enhancing the shadows... results in +7...


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## JoFT (Mar 11, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*

Let me make one comment on a feature that really blows me away: The connectivity. It is so easy to transfer photos to iOS (I guess with Android it´s similar) and publish them on instagram.... https://www.instagram.com/delightphotos/ Believe it or not: even if you shoot raw - the camera will transfer jpg to iOS. On the mac it is even transferring RAW wireless.


This implementation is much more straight forward in comparison to panasonics solution. With Pana you have to shoot jpg if you want to share images on social media. 


Congrats Canon!!!


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## danski0224 (Mar 11, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*

The big fails of the M5 are (1) lens IS is always on and (2) the flip screen is incompatible with a camera Arca plate.

(1) might be fixed with a firmware update but (2) can't be so easily fixed.

Guess I'll wait for the next one


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## JohnUSA (Mar 12, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*

Many Thanks for the excellent review JoFT. Great to see Canon finally getting a handle on the mirrorless camera sector.


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## Crosswind (Mar 12, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



JoFT said:


> Believe it or not: even if you shoot raw - the camera will transfer jpg to iOS. On the mac it is even transferring RAW wireless.
> 
> 
> This implementation is much more straight forward in comparison to panasonics solution. With Pana you have to shoot jpg if you want to share images on social media.
> ...



Not to forget that you can quickly process your RAW files in-camera to your likings, save it as jpg, transfer to your phone and it is ready to be shared. If you like, there are very capable android apps like snapseed (almost as good as LR) to further enhance your image in a few quick steps. That's really nice and it doesn't take much time. 

(Though if I really want the best, then I will process the RAW files in LR on my desktop PC of course)


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## Fleetie (Mar 12, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*

The M5 doesn't have in-camera RAW processing, does it?


Does it?


I'd like to hear that it does, but I thought it doesn't?


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## Crosswind (Mar 13, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*

Yes it does. I use it when I don't need to edit the pictures that much (documentary or snapshots of my family). The in-camera processing options are just very basic, but good enough for non-professional work. I like the new FD (fine detail) picture style the most.

The new digic7 processor could be a bit snappier (still some minor lag), but that's not an issue at all IMO. Its JPG engine is pretty nice though as it's not as "mushy" (if that's even the right term) as the one of the EOS 6D (at the pixel level / 100% view).

Why are you asking, do you want to buy the camera?


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## Hector1970 (Mar 13, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*

I have an Olympus which is very good but let down by its poorly thought out and confusing menu system.probabl due to trying to fit in too many options. Simple setting changes are hard. It really effects the ability to take photographs. You point about using EF lens is valid , too heavy for the M5 but the Olympus pro glass is surprisingly hefty and alsounbalances their cameras and takes the camera from being compact to being large enough and heavy. Their glass is very good



old-pr-pix said:


> JoFT said:
> 
> 
> > ... The M5 is a really good camera. It is a lot of fun to work with the camera and it is delivering ex
> > I'm happy to hear you are pleased with the M5. It's good to see Canon making progress with the M series! I also have dual systems - Olympus m43 in my case. I would love to love the M5, except your list of missing items is exactly why I bought into the Olympus system to begin with (well, except for 4K video which I don't need). Plus, the list of top quality Oly and Panasonic pro grade lenses goes far, far beyond the few Canon offerings. Putting adapted EF lenses on a small mirrorless body just means big, heavy lenses on a small body.


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## bainsybike (Mar 14, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



danski0224 said:


> The big fails of the M5 are (1) lens IS is always on



No it isn't - you can disable it. Don't you read the manual?


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## Crosswind (Mar 14, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*

Though I can understand his critique; it's not the camera - it's the *lens that lacks an IS ON/OFF switch*. You can disable it, but for that you'd have to go into the menu - which is very inconvenient. There are some reasons why you'd want to quickly enable or disable it at times (saving energy when temporarily shooting at faster shutter speeds, tripod work, etc.) and there are no native EF-M lenses which feature such a thing, but some EF-S lenses for example do. Even when reviewing the pictures on the rear display, the IS doesn't stop working, which is completely unnecessary. This *should be done automatically* IMO, which could be fixed in a firmware upgrade. It'd definitely help saving some energy over a long period of time. And the battery life is already very limited for MILCs.

But these are only some of the reasons why I prefer to use non EF-M lenses and always leave my EF/EF-M adapter mounted on the camera. Some might argue "then why I'm not just using a small DSLR (like the rebel SL-series) instead?" - but then I wouldn't have all the advantages of a MILC.


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## jolyonralph (Mar 14, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*

The M5 is by far the best MILC from Canon so far, but Canon are still a good 2-3 years behind Sony in the field. 

What's interesting is the ergonomics of the M5 are still designed around smaller (female?) hands - not necessarily a bad thing but I find it a bit difficult to use compared with the Sony A6000 which is slightly wider.

Other things I dislike about the M5:

Only rudimentary battery power level indicator. No % indicator 
Slow startup speed - it's actually slightly slower to start up than the M3, and way slower than the A6000
No 4K
Does not support USB tethered shooting. 

And it's a real shame that no Canon camera has the feature that the Sony cameras do that you can charge the battery inside the camera when the USB cable is connected to a power source or a computer. Very handy for charging the camera in the car etc.

So. Canon really must do better if they want to do a professional MILC. I like the M5 and I will probably use mine MORE than the A6000, but it could have been so much better.


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## bholliman (Mar 14, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



Crosswind said:


> Though I can understand his critique; it's not the camera - it's the *lens that lacks an IS ON/OFF switch*. You can disable it, but for that you'd have to go into the menu - which is very inconvenient. There are some reasons why you'd want to quickly enable or disable it at times (saving energy when temporarily shooting at faster shutter speeds, tripod work, etc.) and there are no native EF-M lenses which feature such a thing, but some EF-S lenses for example do. Even when reviewing the pictures on the rear display, the IS doesn't stop working, which is completely unnecessary. This *should be done automatically* IMO, which could be fixed in a firmware upgrade. It'd definitely help saving some energy over a long period of time. And the battery life is already very limited for MILCs.
> 
> But these are only some of the reasons why I prefer to use non EF-M lenses and always leave my EF/EF-M adapter mounted on the camera. Some might argue "then why I'm not just using a small DSLR (like the rebel SL-series) instead?" - but then I wouldn't have all the advantages of a MILC.



I've run into the issue you mentioned when using continuous focus. As long as the camera is on, it will continue to focus (go figure), even if you are doing something beside shooting at that time, which does drain the battery. My initial solution was to turn the camera off when I wasn't shooting, but that is a bit inconvenient and not a solution if you want to view images on the camera. 

So, my current solution is to temporarily put the camera in manual focus mode by tapping the left side of the rear wheel (default setting "MF") with my thumb when I'm not shooting. The camera will stop continuously auto focusing until you turn AF back on with another thumb tap. This has worked pretty well for me, faster than turning the camera off/on or switching in and out of continuous auto focus mode. Having a AF/MF switch on the lens would take longer.


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## bholliman (Mar 14, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



jolyonralph said:


> The M5 is by far the best MILC from Canon so far, but Canon are still a good 2-3 years behind Sony in the field.
> 
> What's interesting is the ergonomics of the M5 are still designed around smaller (female?) hands - not necessarily a bad thing but I find it a bit difficult to use compared with the Sony A6000 which is slightly wider.
> 
> ...



All cameras have their advantages and disadvantages. You have to make a personal decision between what is available in the market and your personal preferences and budget. The comments about the M5 being 2-3-4 years behind the competition seem to be based on it not having 4k video (which doesn't matter to many of us), its other features are certainly in line with the competition. And the M5 has a big plus the competition doesn't: Canon's excellent service and support and access to the best family of lenses in the industry (EF/EF-S/EF-M).



jolyonralph said:


> What's interesting is the ergonomics of the M5 are still designed around smaller (female?) hands - not necessarily a bad thing but I find it a bit difficult to use compared with the Sony A6000 which is slightly wider.



I'm a guy with larger than average hands, my 5DsR is certainly easier and more ergonomic for me to operate than the M5, but I can live with that since I bought the M5 since it was a *small* camera. Canon packed lots of control options into a small package with the M5. Personally, I'm glad they did.


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## bholliman (Mar 14, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



jolyonralph said:


> The M5 is by far the best MILC from Canon so far, but Canon are still a good 2-3 years behind Sony in the field.
> 
> What's interesting is the ergonomics of the M5 are still designed around smaller (female?) hands - not necessarily a bad thing but I find it a bit difficult to use compared with the Sony A6000 which is slightly wider.
> 
> ...



All cameras have their advantages and disadvantages. You have to make a personal decision between what is available in the market and your personal preferences and budget. The comments about the M5 being 2-3-4 years behind the competition seem to be based on it not having 4k video (which doesn't matter to many of us), its other features are certainly in line with the competition. And the M5 has a big plus the competition doesn't: Canon's excellent service and support and access to the best family of lenses in the industry (EF/EF-S/EF-M).



jolyonralph said:


> What's interesting is the ergonomics of the M5 are still designed around smaller (female?) hands - not necessarily a bad thing but I find it a bit difficult to use compared with the Sony A6000 which is slightly wider.



I'm a guy with larger than average hands, my 5DsR is certainly easier and more ergonomic for me to operate than the M5, but I can live with that since I bought the M5 because I wanted a *small* camera. Canon packed lots of control options into a small package with the M5. Personally, I'm glad they did.
[/quote]


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## jolyonralph (Mar 14, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



bholliman said:


> The comments about the M5 being 2-3-4 years behind the competition seem to be based on it not having 4k video (which doesn't matter to many of us), its other features are certainly in line with the competition. And the M5 has a big plus the competition doesn't: Canon's excellent service and support and access to the best family of lenses in the industry (EF/EF-S/EF-M).
> 
> I'm a guy with larger than average hands, my 5DsR is certainly easier and more ergonomic for me to operate than the M5, but I can live with that since I bought the M5 since it was a *small* camera. Canon packed lots of control options into a small package with the M5. Personally, I'm glad they did.



Actually, my comment about being 2 years behind Sony had nothing to do with 4K. I was comparing the M5 with the Sony A6000, which doesn't have 4K either. But what the Sony does have is comparable focus speed and similar image quality in low light (ie Canon have finally caught up). So, the M5 is comparable sensor and focus-wise with the A6000 which was launched in 2014. My biggest ergonomic problem with the M5 is the position of the 'menu' button in the bottom right corner where it's very easily triggered by my palm. Similarly the video record button is often hit by accident. The A6000 is slightly wider so doesn't have such a cramped button issue. 

Of course, if you have a lot of EF lenses (as I do!) then the M5 is a better choice to use with those lenses (which, after all is why I own the M5 now.) There is a poor selection of native EF-M lenses now (compared with a wide range for E mount) although the EF-M lenses I own I am very happy with. The M5 also has a much nicer screen and better viewfinder than the A6000.


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## bholliman (Mar 14, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



jolyonralph said:


> Actually, my comment about being 2 years behind Sony had nothing to do with 4K. I was comparing the M5 with the Sony A6000, which doesn't have 4K either. But what the Sony does have is comparable focus speed and similar image quality in low light (ie Canon have finally caught up). So, the M5 is comparable sensor and focus-wise with the A6000 which was launched in 2014. My biggest ergonomic problem with the M5 is the position of the 'menu' button in the bottom right corner where it's very easily triggered by my palm. Similarly the video record button is often hit by accident. The A6000 is slightly wider so doesn't have such a cramped button issue.
> 
> Of course, if you have a lot of EF lenses (as I do!) then the M5 is a better choice to use with those lenses (which, after all is why I own the M5 now.) There is a poor selection of native EF-M lenses now (compared with a wide range for E mount) although the EF-M lenses I own I am very happy with. The M5 also has a much nicer screen and better viewfinder than the A6000.



Looking at the specs, the M5 is similar to the current Sony A6500 for stills, at a 30% lower price. I'm sure both have pluses and minuses.

I agree that the menu button and video record buttons could be in a better locations. I've reconfigured the M-fn button to record video, so that one is easily dealt with, but the menu button can't be changed. A minor issue in my opinion, but something that could be improved in future versions.


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## jolyonralph (Mar 14, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*

The menu button is a real shame because it was one of my biggest gripes about the M3. They fixed my biggest complaint about the M3 (no real on/off switch).

As for comparing A6500 with M5 - I've not used the A6500 so I can't say. But I have used the M3, the M5 and the A6000 extensively, and in my experience the A6000 and the M5 are comparable in image quality and focus with the M3 trailing in both. 

But Canon really do need to do something about startup time. This is inexcusable seeing as they've moved to the Digic 7 chip on the m5 there is absolutely no reason why it should be slower than the M3. There's no point having any camera if you've missed the shot in the time it's taken to turn on.


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## bholliman (Mar 14, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



jolyonralph said:


> As for comparing A6500 with M5 - I've not used the A6500 so I can't say. But I have used the M3, the M5 and the A6000 extensively, and in my experience the A6000 and the M5 are comparable in image quality and focus with the M3 trailing in both.
> 
> But Canon really do need to do something about startup time. This is inexcusable seeing as they've moved to the Digic 7 chip on the m5 there is absolutely no reason why it should be slower than the M3. There's no point having any camera if you've missed the shot in the time it's taken to turn on.



My only experience with the Sony A series is playing with demo units at Best Buy, so I'll defer to your hands on experience. The A6000 doesn't have a touch screen, right? I would imagine the M5's touch and drag focusing using the LCD is a big plus for the M5.

Start up time for the M5 is slow. I can't say it's been a real issue for me however, but could be a problem if you wanted to grab a quick shot. I would think it could be corrected with a firmware update.


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## Crosswind (Mar 15, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*

Ok, the only thing I've found to be a bit slow and unneccessary is, when you switch between the shooting modes via the P, Av, Tv, M dial. I have turned off tips&tricks in the menu, but everytime I switch, it shows me the mode I've just selected on the display for about 1sec. (or even longer, didn't measure) and I cannot do anything in the meantime! I don't need that. Annoying stuff (but I can deal with it, as I'm more into landscapes). 

Now but if I'm in a hurry, that might be an issue (street photography, weddings, festivals, frequently changing situations, etc...). It might take a splitsecond too long to finally be able to shoot, after I've switched from Av to Tv mode for example. Should be fixed in a firmware upgrade for the Canon EOS M5.

P.S.: One thing I want to add about the in-camera RAW processing; the M5 allows you to select and then *process multiple pictures at once* (you couldn't do that with the 6D).


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## JoFT (Mar 26, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



jolyonralph said:


> The M5 is by far the best MILC from Canon so far, but Canon are still a good 2-3 years behind Sony in the field.
> 
> What's interesting is the ergonomics of the M5 are still designed around smaller (female?) hands - not necessarily a bad thing but I find it a bit difficult to use compared with the Sony A6000 which is slightly wider.
> 
> ...




I do not see the M5 behind the Sony's. Both have advantages and disadvantages. They are different. 


You can shoot the M5 tethered-wireless. But only on iOS or other mobile devices. 


Loading via USB is a nice feature which is not standard at Panasonic in most of their models, too....


And one bid advantage: lens selection. Even if there are not that many native lenses available: there are a lot of lenses available and really good ones. Still much better than with Sony. And they are compatible with my 5D4....




But I agree, there is space for improvement, and this is a lot. I hope Canon is going to do so.


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## jolyonralph (Mar 26, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*

One thing I've now found twice on the M5 when I've taken it out shooting is that I've somehow managed to knock auto ISO off and onto some ridiculous iso setting (eg the other day I took a bunch of photos outdoors at 16000 ISO without noticing.)

Has this happened to anyone else? With such a cramped space for controls I wish there was a lock function.

Also, the EVF is not as nice to use as the external one on the M3. For one thing it doesn't have enough rubber cup to it so that you get lots of light leakage in from the sides, especially if you're also trying to do thumb focus pointing at the same time. It doesn't appear that it is easy to replace it with a larger third-party one. This spoils it somewhat. Was shooting the M3 and the M5 side by side today. The M3 viewfinder is much nicer to use. 

It does seem the M5 is in many ways two steps forward and one step back from the M3. Of course, the focusing is much better on the M5.


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## dak723 (Mar 26, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



jolyonralph said:


> One thing I've now found twice on the M5 when I've taken it out shooting is that I've somehow managed to knock auto ISO off and onto some ridiculous iso setting (eg the other day I took a bunch of photos outdoors at 16000 ISO without noticing.)
> 
> Has this happened to anyone else? With such a cramped space for controls I wish there was a lock function.



I have accidentally pressed the custom buttons on the wheel while shooting, which I assume is what happened to you. I use 3 or 4 of the custom buttons and have set the others to be off (have no setting).


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## Woody (Mar 26, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



bholliman said:


> The A6000 doesn't have a touch screen, right?



I do not know what others think, but a MILC without a touchscreen is a MASSIVE failure IMHO. It's also one of the reasons that I totally ignore older Sony MILCs.

Regarding size, I think the M5 is perfectly designed for those with small hands. That's why those with big hands will find themselves constantly bumping into buttons on the M5. 

Large MILCs make little sense to me, and that's where all the new MILCs are going. I'll rather choose DSLRs and their incomparable OVF.

If one prefers a lightweight camera with volume, I'll say go with the just-released 77D or upcoming SL2. Believe it or not, the SL1 is lighter than many MILCs in the market.


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## bholliman (Mar 26, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



dak723 said:


> jolyonralph said:
> 
> 
> > One thing I've now found twice on the M5 when I've taken it out shooting is that I've somehow managed to knock auto ISO off and onto some ridiculous iso setting (eg the other day I took a bunch of photos outdoors at 16000 ISO without noticing.)
> ...



I had problems accidentally hitting ISO (top of the back wheel) and the movie record buttons, so I reconfigured both to avoid this.



Woody said:


> Regarding size, I think the M5 is perfectly designed for those with small hands. That's why those with big hands will find themselves constantly bumping into buttons on the M5.



Agreed. I love my M5, but the controls are a bit cramped for easy operation with my larger than average hands. I'm not complaining, I'm very happy with the level of controls on the camera, its just minor issue I can deal with to enjoy the benefits of a small, light camera.


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## jolyonralph (Mar 26, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



Woody said:


> bholliman said:
> 
> 
> > The A6000 doesn't have a touch screen, right?
> ...



I like touchscreens, but I haven't ever felt on the A6000 that it was a massive failing. To be honest I miss it more on the A7RII probably because I use that in a different way to the A6000. But in neither case would I say it was a massive failure. For me, the ergonomics on the M5 is more of a massive failure than this. 

Still. I think there is more to like than not to like about the M5, and I'm certainly keeping mine.


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## JoFT (Mar 26, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



jolyonralph said:


> Woody said:
> 
> 
> > bholliman said:
> ...




What's on the ergonomics is that massive failure? I have some minor things to argue (f.i. I would like to double tap on the area where I want to zoom in in manual focusing)


And one remark on native APS-C native E-mount lenses: where are those? They are not that much. Correct is, that 3rd party is missing...


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## Greatland (Mar 27, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*

Perhaps someone can help me here. I am looking at mirrorless for the first time ever. I shoot a 1DX MK II and recently purchased a 5DSr. However I am interested in mirrorless. I have friends, Canon shooters who have purchased the Olympus and of course some who have purchased the Sony. Since I am very much interested in using my extensive collection of Canon lenses would it be presumptious to assume that the M5 will work better with all of my lenses than would be the case with the Olympus or the Sony...Thanks in advance for your help.


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## KeithBreazeal (Mar 28, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



bholliman said:


> dak723 said:
> 
> 
> > jolyonralph said:
> ...



Every time I use the M5, I accidentally hit the record button- time to reassign. The other day I found myself in some settings hell and just shut off the camera. It does take time to get the "muscle memory" going on the little thing after using the big bodies all day. It's hard to beat the touch screen focusing when doing those really low angle shots- clothes are staying cleaner too. 



Daffodil Hill 2017 0328 © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal, on Flickr


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## dak723 (Mar 28, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



Greatland said:


> Perhaps someone can help me here. I am looking at mirrorless for the first time ever. I shoot a 1DX MK II and recently purchased a 5DSr. However I am interested in mirrorless. I have friends, Canon shooters who have purchased the Olympus and of course some who have purchased the Sony. Since I am very much interested in using my extensive collection of Canon lenses would it be presumptious to assume that the M5 will work better with all of my lenses than would be the case with the Olympus or the Sony...Thanks in advance for your help.



What is it about mirrorless - or what mirrorless features are you interested in? That may help you decide - and us to give advice. The major differences between those cameras you mention are sensor size. Olympus is Micro 4/3. Do you want to go that small compared to the FF sensor cameras that you have? Is there an adapter that will allow you to use Canon lenses on Olympus M4/3? Sony, of course, has FF mirrorless. And adapters that seem to do a reasonably good job. The M5 is APS-C, as I'm sure you know, and since it is Canon - and so is the adapter - you probably will get the most reliable results when it comes to AF and exposure with your current lenses. If you are looking for small - then the M5 would be my first choice. 

If I had the two cameras that you do, I can't imagine wanting or needing anything else! So let us know what you are wanting in mirrorless.


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## Greatland (Mar 28, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*

I truly appreciate your comments. I really don't think that I can improve on the capabilities of the 1DX but as we all know it is a damned heavy camera, and when I hook it up to my 200-400 or 600 it is real damned heavy. I am intrigued with the IS that is built into the body of the M5 and since I am interested in using it for video, mostly, it seemed like a good fit. I do take video with my 1DX but once again it is a bulky and heavy camera and sometimes it just isn't practical as I am usually out in the boonies shooting wildlife, or in some other confined place like a small plane, or small watercraft. So I guess that I am looking for something to shoot video with that is light, easy to handle, with familiar characteristics, unlike the Olympus or Sony, and that I can use my other Canon lenses with. Does this make sense??


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## digigal (Mar 28, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*

Greatland--
I don't know about how well the Metabones adapter works with the Oly model and lens you want to use and what apertures but there seems to be a lot of limitations as to what Canon lenses and models of Oly cameras it will work with and what types of focusing it will allow. It's not "plug and play" like the Canon adapter is with the Canon lenses and M5. However, the M5 is somewhat "focus compromised" compared to some of the other top of the line mirrorless, but for some applications, it's great. I'll be taking one with me in a couple of weeks to Namibia as my second camera which I'll us for landscapes, wide angle, walk around stuff, and my 7DM2 and 100-400 will be for wildlife, birds. I like the M5 because the menus are familiar and you can pick it up and generally figure it out. I have an Oly (OMD EM5) that I bought and sent for IR conversion and I can tell you that their menus were devised by someone who has never used a camera and has no idea what the functions do and seem to be stored in a random way down menu trails--good luck  The manual is no help and it takes reading blogs and reviews to find out how to work the damn thing! It's a great little camera otherwise, but I'd rather stab myself in the eye than try to do anything fast using that clunky menu. Takes great IR pictures though and has lots of neat little lenses. I don't shoot video with any of my cameras so I can't comment there.
Good luck,
Catherine


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## Ed V (Mar 28, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



Greatland said:


> I truly appreciate your comments. I really don't think that I can improve on the capabilities of the 1DX but as we all know it is a damned heavy camera, and when I hook it up to my 200-400 or 600 it is real damned heavy. I am intrigued with the IS that is built into the body of the M5 and since I am interested in using it for video, mostly, it seemed like a good fit. I do take video with my 1DX but once again it is a bulky and heavy camera and sometimes it just isn't practical as I am usually out in the boonies shooting wildlife, or in some other confined place like a small plane, or small watercraft. So I guess that I am looking for something to shoot video with that is light, easy to handle, with familiar characteristics, unlike the Olympus or Sony, and that I can use my other Canon lenses with. Does this make sense??



I fully understand your logic. I went through the same decision process looking at the Fuji, Olympus and Sony mirrorless cameras before deciding on the M5. I bought two... one for me to supplement my 5D3 and one for my wife to upgrade her 50D. AT the same time I also purchased the lens adapter so I could use my L-glass with the M5. Truth be told, I have yet to use the adapter and L-glass on the M5. 

My reason for buying the M5 was for those days when I wanted to keep it really small and light and when my back problems flare up. Now I almost exclusively use 35 and 50mm lenses these days. I find even the 35L and 50L to feel too bulky on my M5 when I want small and light. I can only imagine what a 200-400 or 600 would be like. 

Pretty much all I use on the M5 right now is the EOS-M 22mm (35mm full frame equivalent) while I wait and hope and pray that Canon sees it's way to a EOS-M 32mm (50mm ff equivalent). 

All that said, I like the M5. I find I do about a 60/40 split between the 5D3 and the M5. My shooting is almost exclusively on the streets and I am very happy with the results. And as was said above, moving back and forth between the two Canon cameras is pretty seamless.

Ed


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## bholliman (Mar 28, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



Ed V said:


> Pretty much all I use on the M5 right now is the EOS-M 22mm (35mm full frame equivalent) while I wait and hope and pray that Canon sees it's way to a EOS-M 32mm (50mm ff equivalent).



+1. The EF 35mm f/2 IS with adapter works very nicely as a 55mm equivalent, with the adapter, its a little front heavy compared with the native lenses, but I've used mine quite a bit. I also use my EF 50 STM a fair amount on the adapter. I have two EF-M zooms, but so far I've been using my M5 primarily with primes, probably 60% with my 22/2, and 40% with the EF 35 and 50 STM.


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## dak723 (Mar 28, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



Greatland said:


> I truly appreciate your comments. I really don't think that I can improve on the capabilities of the 1DX but as we all know it is a damned heavy camera, and when I hook it up to my 200-400 or 600 it is real damned heavy. I am intrigued with the IS that is built into the body of the M5 and since I am interested in using it for video, mostly, it seemed like a good fit. I do take video with my 1DX but once again it is a bulky and heavy camera and sometimes it just isn't practical as I am usually out in the boonies shooting wildlife, or in some other confined place like a small plane, or small watercraft. So I guess that I am looking for something to shoot video with that is light, easy to handle, with familiar characteristics, unlike the Olympus or Sony, and that I can use my other Canon lenses with. Does this make sense??



OK, got it! You want light and primarily a video shooter. If you don't need 4K, then I think the M5 is far and away the best choice.


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## Greatland (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*

I appreciate all of the feedback on the M5. Since I really am looking at something light, and that shoots good video, NOT 4K, I think that this is the way for me to go. If I want to shoot 4K I can use my 1DX MK II, but I find myself saving any 4K video for very special stuff...uses up a ton of memory and battery, which are two things that I don't really need...1080 at either 30 or 60 fps gives me really good stuff so I am thinking that the M5 is a far better option than either the Oly, at twice the price, or the Sony, at three times the price....I am going to Tanzania in August and plan on taking this camera with me along with my 1DX and my 5DSr


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## jolyonralph (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*

I know I've been posting random rants and complaints about the M5 here since I got mine, but at the same time I really do like the camera. It's so frustrating that it's great in many ways but seriously flawed in others. Anyway at the risk of repeating myself I decided to document everything in more detail.

http://www.everyothershot.com/canon-eos-m5-wanted-love-much/


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## dak723 (Mar 29, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



jolyonralph said:


> I know I've been posting random rants and complaints about the M5 here since I got mine, but at the same time I really do like the camera. It's so frustrating that it's great in many ways but seriously flawed in others. Anyway at the risk of repeating myself I decided to document everything in more detail.
> 
> http://www.everyothershot.com/canon-eos-m5-wanted-love-much/



Seriously flawed??? Most of your criticisms (some of which I agree with and are valid) are all very minor points - in fact so minor that you were able to find easy work-arounds for most of them.

I really wish people of this generation would understand how lucky they are having cameras that do so much more - and so much better than ever in history. And yet there is so much whining and complaining. If the glass is 80% full, most folks here still think it is more than 1/2 empty. So sad.


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## jolyonralph (Mar 30, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



dak723 said:


> Seriously flawed???



Some of the problems are minor. The record button, the nose-on-the-touchscreen etc, because those can be dealt with easily. 

I spent a long time working with the camera before writing this article. I didn't want it just to be a "I don't know how to use it properly" complaint. And I wanted to see if I could get used to the layout (after all, it is different to the M3 layout I was used to.) I also spoke with other users who, in general, agreed with my complaints.

Are these "serious flaws?". There are two ways to look at it. Firstly, how it affects us individually. And secondly how it affects the quality of the camera compared to the competition.

I've explained how it has affected me. I have ruined photos because the ISO got messed up. I feel that I'm going to suffer from an RSI attack every time I try to preview photos in the viewfinder. And that's if I can see them at all because of the inadequate rubber surround. 

I find it disappointing that there are so many reasons that this camera should be excellent, but it is let down by some silly mistakes that should have been picked up and fixed in field testing of the camera prototypes. 

To me, that I regard as a serious problem. And for Canon? Maybe for them they are lucky that 99% of people don't really think about the ergonomics of a camera's button positions before they make a purchase. Because the competition do seem to understand how to do this a lot better than Canon do.

And yes, this camera has some amazing technology inside it and can, as I said, produce absolutely incredible photos. I'm going to persevere with it, hopefully Canon will add the ability to disable/move the menu button in a future firmware update, or perhaps adding some kind of external leather half-case will improve this (although I've avoided that so far because I think that will make the finger stretch needed to do the image preview even more painful.)

I do actually love the M5 more than I hate it. But if we don't complain about the things that are wrong Canon won't know that we're not happy...

This is the fifth mirrorless camera that Canon have produced, and it really should have been better. Perhaps that's because not enough people have complained in the past - choosing instead to either put up with the problems or move on to a different camera system. But I want the EOS M system to work. I like the cameras, I even like all the EF-M lenses that I have already. And it's clearly the best mirrorless system for those who have invested in any serious amount of EF glass to use (The A7RII with the Metabones adaptor isn't too bad, but still not as good and of course significantly more expensive.)


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## jolyonralph (Mar 30, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



dak723 said:


> in fact so minor that you were able to find easy work-arounds for most of them.



2 out of 9 problems/complaints I have found workarounds for so far. That doesn't fit my usual definition of "most".


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## old-pr-pix (Mar 30, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*

Back to the beginning...


JoFT said:


> And there are some topics I am missing in the Canon mirrorless world - but I hope this is going to come...
> 
> no IBIS
> no 4k Video
> ...



All these are addressed by a $900 Oly E-M5II (except 4K). As to menus, that's just a matter of what you are accustomed to... I don't understand German well, but that's not the fault of the German language.

For me the big factor is the lens size. If you want smaller/lighter then it does not make sense to put EF lenses on a m43 camera. I started thinking I would do that, but those tiny lenses are too handy and too good. The E-M5II with 12-40mm f2.8 PRO lens together weigh less than just an EF 24-70 lens! Use the pancake zoom instead and it weighs even less and fits a cargo pants pocket. Rats!!! Now I've got two complete systems. As always YMMV.


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## jolyonralph (Mar 30, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*

A lot of people (yes, including me!) complain about the lack of lens choice on the EOS M system. But those lenses that we have are really not that bad (except the 15-45 which is quite poor.)

Even the old kit lens, the EF-M 18-55 which came with my original EOS-M has perfectly good sharpness and colour on the M5. 

and:

EF-M 22mm - great lens
EF-M 28mm - great lens
EF-M 11-22mm - great lens. as good as my EF-S 10-18 in quality.
EF-M 55-200mm - not tried it but everyone tells me is great.
EF-M 18-150mm - was expecting poor compromise lens, but again am told this is actually rather good.


Add to this the following lightweight options if you want to use certain EF/EF-S lenses with the adaptor (and cheaper third party adaptors are available, but be careful as some aren't as good as others)

EF-S 24mm f/2.8 - perfectly lightweight option on M5 although not much point if you have the 22mm
EF 40mm f/2.8 - great combination with the adaptor to use on the M5 
EF 50mm f/1.8 - Really not bulky at all on an M5 with the adaptor. 

Samyang also do a range of good EF-M manual focus lenses. And of course with adaptors you can go crazy buying cheap old lenses on ebay and having a field day with manual focus. Lenses I've been using with my M5 recently include:

Nikkor Q f/4 200mm 
Nikkor f/1.4 50mm
FD 50mm f/1.8
Nikkor 55mm f/2.8 macro

Now, none of this excuses Canon from being slow in launching more EF-M lenses. But M5 owners do have more sensible lens choices than owners of any other canon system if you're willing to use adaptors and cope with the inevitable balance issues of heavier lenses on a lighter body.


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## Mikehit (Mar 30, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



jolyonralph said:


> Now, none of this excuses Canon from being slow in launching more EF-M lenses. But M5 owners do have more sensible lens choices than owners of any other canon system if you're willing to use adaptors and cope with the inevitable balance issues of heavier lenses on a lighter body.



IMO the M5 is targeted mainly at people wanting a compact large-sensor alternative to their phone and I think the range of EOS-M lenses available fills almost all situations, especially given that the target uses are not pixel-peeping gear freaks that a lot (most?) on this forum are. 
Whether experienced photographers want to pick it up as a compact alternative to their big DSLR rig is a different question, and while Canon give users that option I am sure Canon look on those as a bonus revenue stream.

In that light, what exactly do Canon need to be excused for, given that your post says that the lenses they do have are 'great' or 'rather good'?


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## jolyonralph (Mar 30, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



Mikehit said:


> In that light, what exactly do Canon need to be excused for, given that your post says that the lenses they do have are 'great' or 'rather good'?



A fair point. They do cover most bases with the options they already have. But they don't have any fast zooms, they don't have any primes > 28mm. The competition does.

And, sad to say, the competition in the MILC field are generally doing much better than Canon, who are playing catch-up. Would I recommend an EOS M5 to someone looking for their first camera to upgrade from phone photos? Probably not.


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## dslrdummy (Mar 31, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



digigal said:


> Greatland--
> I don't know about how well the Metabones adapter works with the Oly model and lens you want to use and what apertures but there seems to be a lot of limitations as to what Canon lenses and models of Oly cameras it will work with and what types of focusing it will allow. It's not "plug and play" like the Canon adapter is with the Canon lenses and M5. However, the M5 is somewhat "focus compromised" compared to some of the other top of the line mirrorless, but for some applications, it's great. I'll be taking one with me in a couple of weeks to Namibia as my second camera which I'll us for landscapes, wide angle, walk around stuff, and my 7DM2 and 100-400 will be for wildlife, birds. I like the M5 because the menus are familiar and you can pick it up and generally figure it out. I have an Oly (OMD EM5) that I bought and sent for IR conversion and I can tell you that their menus were devised by someone who has never used a camera and has no idea what the functions do and seem to be stored in a random way down menu trails--good luck  The manual is no help and it takes reading blogs and reviews to find out how to work the damn thing! It's a great little camera otherwise, but I'd rather stab myself in the eye than try to do anything fast using that clunky menu. Takes great IR pictures though and has lots of neat little lenses. I don't shoot video with any of my cameras so I can't comment there.
> Good luck,
> Catherine


Catherine,
Very interested to hear how the M5 works for you in Namibia. I am considering it as a second body for a trip to Zambia and Madagascar in Nov - both as a lightweight walk around option but also as a second body on safari. I don't have a big budget so for me it's basically a choice between getting a 100 macro lense for the little critters in Madagascar and chancing it with one body (1dxii) or spending a bit more and buying the M5 with adapter. I have been to Africa several times and know that swapping lenses on the go can be a real challenge.
I know you say you don't plan using the M5 for wildlife, and appreciate that it isn't designed as an action camera, but interested just the same in your view as to whether it could serve as a second body, at least for the less challenging shots. In Zambia a lot of the animal photo opportunities are in good light and, if not still subjects, then at least not fast moving. If I can switch between one body with the 100-400 and one with the 300 with or without extender, then that's my preferred method of shooting. I should add that I prefer the small form factor of the M5 over the 80D as a walk around/second body.
Cheers,
Phillip


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## dak723 (Mar 31, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



jolyonralph said:


> dak723 said:
> 
> 
> > Seriously flawed???
> ...



I appreciate the time you've spent and the efforts you have made. I did not mean to belittle your efforts. What I think you are missing is that you are making many definitive statements - and they are just your opinion. And yes, you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but you seem to assume that your criticisms are mistakes - when they may be nothing of the sort.



> Are these "serious flaws?". There are two ways to look at it. Firstly, how it affects us individually. And secondly how it affects the quality of the camera compared to the competition.
> 
> I've explained how it has affected me. I have ruined photos because the ISO got messed up. I feel that I'm going to suffer from an RSI attack every time I try to preview photos in the viewfinder. And that's if I can see them at all because of the inadequate rubber surround.



Again, the ISO issue is solved by turning off the default button on the dial. You can use the dual function button instead. Perhaps the viewfinder surround is an issue, but we have not had much sunny weather here since I bought the M5, so it is not something I have noticed!



> I find it disappointing that there are so many reasons that this camera should be excellent, but it is let down by some silly mistakes that should have been picked up and fixed in field testing of the camera prototypes.
> 
> To me, that I regard as a serious problem. And for Canon? Maybe for them they are lucky that 99% of people don't really think about the ergonomics of a camera's button positions before they make a purchase. Because the competition do seem to understand how to do this a lot better than Canon do.



In my experience, the button positions and ergonomics are far superior to either the Olympus 4/3rd cameras or the Sony A7II. Perhaps there is other competition that does a better job, but I have yet to see it - in my opinion. So it is hard to call this a mistake. It seems to be personal preference. You seem to be ignoring the fact that this is a very small camera. If you need more room for the button layout, then this camera may not be for you. That does not make it a mistake. 



> And yes, this camera has some amazing technology inside it and can, as I said, produce absolutely incredible photos. I'm going to persevere with it, hopefully Canon will add the ability to disable/move the menu button in a future firmware update, or perhaps adding some kind of external leather half-case will improve this (although I've avoided that so far because I think that will make the finger stretch needed to do the image preview even more painful.)



You may have a point about the menu button, since you are hitting it by mistake. Again, where would you put it based on the size of the camera? I personally have never hit it accidentally, but that doesn't mean it is not an issue for others.



> I do actually love the M5 more than I hate it. But if we don't complain about the things that are wrong Canon won't know that we're not happy...



Complaining on this forum will mean nothing. You do realize that this forum is not in any way associated with Canon. You can contact Canon customer support. Have you done so. That would be meaningful. Bringing up the menu button issue and suggesting a way via a firmware update for it to be disabled during shooting would be a good idea. I am sure they would appreciate your feedback for any other suggestions (not complaints) as well.


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## Woody (Mar 31, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



jolyonralph said:


> A fair point. They do cover most bases with the options they already have. But they don't have any fast zooms, they don't have any primes > 28mm. The competition does.
> 
> And, sad to say, the competition in the MILC field are generally doing much better than Canon, who are playing catch-up. Would I recommend an EOS M5 to someone looking for their first camera to upgrade from phone photos? Probably not.



It depends on what one is looking for.

I have been thinking about this recently. The competition you mention above probably refers to the micro four-third family and the Fujifilm x-mount. I don't consider Sony E-mount (APS-C) to be any competition 'cos their lens line-up is pretty poor.

For my requirements, I need (i) ultrawide zoom lens (FOV >= 16 mm on FF sensor) with ability to mount filters (ii) lightweight wide zoom lens (iii) lightweight telephoto zoom lens (iv) fast (at least f/2) prime with same FOV as 35 or 50 mm on FF sensor (v) macro lens with same FOV as 150 mm on FF sensor.

Up till now, neither the micro four-third nor Fujifilm x-mount satisfies (v). Also, until the Leica 8-18 mm zoom lens gets released, the micro four-third line-up fails (i) too.

The native EF-M mount does not have the full range too, but at the very least, I can adapt EF or EF-S lenses to fulfill my requirements, complete with autofocus.

So, there is no single compelling winner.

Also, having owned and used the Oly OMD-EM5 for 1 year, I have to confess I am rather disappointed by their high ISO performance... regardless of what DPReview or DXOMark tells me. Finally, since I am very used to Adobe Lightroom in my workflow, I must be able to use Lightroom to process the RAW output from the camera without unwanted artifacts (e.g., Fujifilm RAW files).


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## Woody (Mar 31, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



dak723 said:


> In my experience, the button positions and ergonomics are far superior to either the Olympus 4/3rd cameras or the Sony A7II. Perhaps there is other competition that does a better job, but I have yet to see it - in my opinion. So it is hard to call this a mistake. It seems to be personal preference. You seem to be ignoring the fact that this is a very small camera. If you need more room for the button layout, then this camera may not be for you. That does not make it a mistake.



Precisely.

I don't think anyone has to right to consider his preference as the best design choice.

I may feel a touchscreen is absolutely necessary on a MILC, but I am sure there are others who don't share the same preference.


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## pwp (Mar 31, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*

I had a great full-day's test drive of the M5. My overall impression was that Canon have easily made their their best M yet by a wide margin. It felt solidly built, was dead-easy to get started with for anyone accustomed to Canon controls and menu structures, has a very decent EVF, is surprisingly responsive and pleasingly small. One APS-C body (7DII) is enough for me (+5DIV & 1DX) so I'm not rushing out to buy one, but will confidently recommend them to the many people who ask me what camera they should buy. Tellingly, it was plain good fun to use.

Only thing is, for a very compact APS-C body, I'd be sitting tight to see what the promised SL-2 brings to the table. We're spoiled for choice...

-pw


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## digigal (Mar 31, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



dslrdummy said:


> Catherine,
> Very interested to hear how the M5 works for you in Namibia. I am considering it as a second body for a trip to Zambia and Madagascar in Nov - both as a lightweight walk around option but also as a second body on safari. I don't have a big budget so for me it's basically a choice between getting a 100 macro lense for the little critters in Madagascar and chancing it with one body (1dxii) or spending a bit more and buying the M5 with adapter. I have been to Africa several times and know that swapping lenses on the go can be a real challenge.
> I know you say you don't plan using the M5 for wildlife, and appreciate that it isn't designed as an action camera, but interested just the same in your view as to whether it could serve as a second body, at least for the less challenging shots. In Zambia a lot of the animal photo opportunities are in good light and, if not still subjects, then at least not fast moving. If I can switch between one body with the 100-400 and one with the 300 with or without extender, then that's my preferred method of shooting. I should add that I prefer the small form factor of the M5 over the 80D as a walk around/second body.
> Cheers,
> Phillip


My plan for Namibia was to use the M5 for wide angle shots (24-105 with the adapter or the native 18-55) when I was at waterholes and keep the 100-400 on the 7DMK2. I understand from your message that you're planning to walk around with a heavy EF tele on it. If so, you need to support it by an attachment with a ring on the tripod foot of the tele or the adapter because the camera can't support the weight of the tele like the 7DMK2 and 1DxM2. That's a little bit of a hassle when using it as a b/u with a long EF lens. I took mine out to the water treatment plant today to try a few shots of some bird action just to see what I could get and I at least feel assured it will be OK for the usual portraits, standing/lying about, eating, walking animals. When we were in Madagascar a year ago so many of the lemurs were in the shade or up in the trees and severely backlit--it was a real photo challenge. Only got one shot of an Indiri. We're going to give it one more go this fall. These are the shots I took with the M5 this afternoon of an egret fishing for minnows--was trying to get him hitting the water. These are out of the camera--no crop, no processing just to let you see what I was able to get with the 100-400 on it.
Regards-
Catherine


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## JoFT (Mar 31, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



dslrdummy said:


> digigal said:
> 
> 
> > Greatland--
> ...


My M5 travelled to California, Switzerland and China. The experience is still exciting I must say. Going on Safari: Keep the 100-400 on the 7D2! Just because of weather sealing. But for the street stuff the M5 is perfect. I was in Tanzania 2 years back with the 5D2 and 7D (the 7D2 was introduced later) as well as the Lumix GM1 for street stuff: This is great. But the M5 is great for that purpose, too. For me: I could sell my µ43 stuff - if my daughter would not use it for video....


And do not forget: the M5 can do wildlife, too....


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## old-pr-pix (Mar 31, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



Woody said:


> It depends on what one is looking for.
> 
> I have been thinking about this recently. The competition you mention above probably refers to the micro four-third family and the Fujifilm x-mount. I don't consider Sony E-mount (APS-C) to be any competition 'cos their lens line-up is pretty poor.
> 
> ...


As an existing m43 user I would think you would be aware of Olympus 7-14mm PRO zoom so your (i) is covered unless you must have screw-on filters as opposed to alternative filter mounts. As to point (v), the Oly 60mm Macro comes close; but, also consider the 40-150 PRO zoom which has outstanding MFD. Add the 1.4 extender and it is likely all you need to satisfy (v). Both the E-M5 Mark II and the E-M1 Mark II offer significant advancement over the several year old E-M5. But, they are still m43.


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## sdsr (Mar 31, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



Greatland said:


> I truly appreciate your comments. I really don't think that I can improve on the capabilities of the 1DX but as we all know it is a damned heavy camera, and when I hook it up to my 200-400 or 600 it is real damned heavy. I am intrigued with the IS that is built into the body of the M5 and since I am interested in using it for video, mostly, it seemed like a good fit. I do take video with my 1DX but once again it is a bulky and heavy camera and sometimes it just isn't practical as I am usually out in the boonies shooting wildlife, or in some other confined place like a small plane, or small watercraft. So I guess that I am looking for something to shoot video with that is light, easy to handle, with familiar characteristics, unlike the Olympus or Sony, and that I can use my other Canon lenses with. Does this make sense??



Yes, though if you'll be using your 200-400 and 600, you'll probably find that the weight loss is relatively minor and doesn't outweigh (as it were) the ergonomic disadvantage of attaching big lenses to tiny cameras. Or isn't that what you plan to use? As for the rest, I have Canon + Olympus m43 + Sony A7rII/s. I've not tried using Canon EF lenses on my Olympus (don't see the point, since their native lenses are so small and often superb), but I have used them on my Sony bodies via Metabones and Sigma adapters and suspect that you would find the AF experience frustrating, at least if you do much action photography, let alone herons-catching-fish. I've not used an M5, but I would expect/hope that it's better. Besides, good adapters aren't cheap, and they aren't weightless. (For the $400 it costs to buy a standard Metabones adapter, not to mention the $650 it costs for one of their speedbooster adapters, you could buy an SL1 or a Rebel!) 

And as a side-note, related to complaints elsewhere re Sigma AF accuracy/consistency, to see what all the fuss was about I recently rented the Sigma 85 Art and Sigma's EF-Sony adapter. Attempting nothing but still shots, I found the lens's (in)accuracy rate, whether attached to my 6D or A7rII via the Sigma adapter, to be completely unacceptable (fortunately it works well as a manual lens, but...). Just for kicks I then attached my Canon EF 85 1.8 to the A7rII via the Sigma adapter, obtaining an accuracy rate of near 100%. Go figure....


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## Woody (Mar 31, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



sdsr said:


> And as a side-note, related to complaints elsewhere re Sigma AF accuracy/consistency, to see what all the fuss was about I recently rented the Sigma 85 Art and Sigma's EF-Sony adapter. Attempting nothing but still shots, I found the lens's (in)accuracy rate, whether attached to my 6D or A7rII via the Sigma adapter, to be completely unacceptable (fortunately it works well as a manual lens, but...). Just for kicks I then attached my Canon EF 85 1.8 to the A7rII via the Sigma adapter, obtaining an accuracy rate of near 100%. Go figure....



Another confirmation of how poor Sigma's AF accuracy is.


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## JoFT (Apr 2, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



Woody said:


> sdsr said:
> 
> 
> > And as a side-note, related to complaints elsewhere re Sigma AF accuracy/consistency, to see what all the fuss was about I recently rented the Sigma 85 Art and Sigma's EF-Sony adapter. Attempting nothing but still shots, I found the lens's (in)accuracy rate, whether attached to my 6D or A7rII via the Sigma adapter, to be completely unacceptable (fortunately it works well as a manual lens, but...). Just for kicks I then attached my Canon EF 85 1.8 to the A7rII via the Sigma adapter, obtaining an accuracy rate of near 100%. Go figure....
> ...




I prefer ZEISS manual focus lenses over SIGMA Autofocus. This is by far more accurate.... Especially on the M5...


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## digigal (Apr 5, 2017)

Question: Does anyone know if the Pocket Wizard works with the M5? 
Thanks,
Catherine


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## privatebydesign (Apr 5, 2017)

digigal said:


> Question: Does anyone know if the Pocket Wizard works with the M5?
> Thanks,
> Catherine



Any reason to think they wouldn't?


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## eosuser1234 (Apr 5, 2017)

Pocket Wizards only have worked on the EOS M series in standard trigger mode. No ETTL, No Hypersync, etc.
This is fine if using the Pocket Wizard Plus 3, or Pocket Wizard Plus X, but you need to change the settings on the Flex TT1 or Flex TT5 using Pocket Wizard utility app on your PC/Mac. 

Basically for Manual usage they work fine, but max shutter speed will only be max sync speed of the camera.



privatebydesign said:


> digigal said:
> 
> 
> > Question: Does anyone know if the Pocket Wizard works with the M5?
> ...


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## privatebydesign (Apr 5, 2017)

eosuser1234 said:


> Pocket Wizards only have worked on the EOS M series in standard trigger mode. No ETTL, No Hypersync, etc.
> This is fine if using the Pocket Wizard Plus 3, or Pocket Wizard Plus X, but you need to change the settings on the Flex TT1 or Flex TT5 using Pocket Wizard utility app on your PC/Mac.
> 
> Basically for Manual usage they work fine, but max shutter speed will only be max sync speed of the camera.
> ...



Is anybody stupid or masochistic enough to still be trying to use that awful, unreliable and expensive Flex system?


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## digigal (Apr 5, 2017)

eosuser1234 said:


> Pocket Wizards only have worked on the EOS M series in standard trigger mode. No ETTL, No Hypersync, etc.
> This is fine if using the Pocket Wizard Plus 3, or Pocket Wizard Plus X, but you need to change the settings on the Flex TT1 or Flex TT5 using Pocket Wizard utility app on your PC/Mac.
> 
> Basically for Manual usage they work fine, but max shutter speed will only be max sync speed of the camera.
> ...




Thanks. Will be using the M5 as a backup for some night shoots at waterholes in Namibia.


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## JoFT (Apr 8, 2017)

One interesting experience I made 2 days ago in the Panasonic Center in Tokyo. There was the GH5 equipped with the Leica 100-400mm Zoom. And there was a railway scaled model in front of it. I tested a bit the follow focus with the moving locomotives. I could not get one sharp image!


But my M5 behaved much better using the EF 100mm f2.8 L IS USM....


For me: DualPixel AF is just great!


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## Ed V (Apr 12, 2017)

I am almost exclusively a street photographer. I've taken the M5 with the EF-40mm pancake out the last two trips and have been extremely pleased with the image quality. The 64mm full-frame equivalent is a bit long for me (I prefer 50mm on my 5D3) but can do until Canon decides to produce a 32mm M-lens (hopefully soon). 

Ed


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## JoFT (Apr 12, 2017)

Ed V said:


> I am almost exclusively a street photographer. I've taken the M5 with the EF-40mm pancake out the last two trips and have been extremely pleased with the image quality. The 64mm full-frame equivalent is a bit long for me (I prefer 50mm on my 5D3) but can do until Canon decides to produce a 32mm M-lens (hopefully soon).
> 
> Ed




Thx. this just fits with my experience. In street photography the camera is close to perfect. You might have 2 options without waiting: the 22mm works for me perfectly. and the 28mm should work, to. And hopefully Sigma releases its APS-C f2.8 Art Primes.. like the 30mm f2.8...


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## bainsybike (Apr 13, 2017)

JoFT said:


> Ed V said:
> 
> 
> > I am almost exclusively a street photographer. I've taken the M5 with the EF-40mm pancake out the last two trips and have been extremely pleased with the image quality. The 64mm full-frame equivalent is a bit long for me (I prefer 50mm on my 5D3) but can do until Canon decides to produce a 32mm M-lens (hopefully soon).
> ...



+1 to this. I think the 28mm M macro is a really nice walkaround lens, on a par with the 22mm (except for the aperture), near enough to 50mm full frame equivalent and with IS too. Pity it's not F2, or even 2.8.


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## Rockskipper (Apr 21, 2017)

just got my M5. Almost sent it back since I couldn't see a dang thing through the EVF, then discovered you can change a diopter thingy to focus better. I can't see closeup w/o wearing glasses, so the back screen is out of focus, but now I can use the EVF. So far I love it, but then, it's a big step up for me.


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## Crosswind (Apr 28, 2017)

When I'm turning the top left wheel to quickly swap from M to Av mode for example, then there's always an info appearing on my screen, that shows me which shooting mode I am currently using for about ~2 sec. I cannot make any changes to aperture or ISO settings in that time, which is kind of annoying. I have turned off "hints & tips" in the menu, but that does not help. Is there any solution? If not, this has to be fixed in a future firmware upgrade...


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## JoFT (Apr 28, 2017)

Crosswind said:


> When I'm turning the top left wheel to quickly swap from M to Av mode for example, then there's always an info appearing on my screen, that shows me which shooting mode I am currently using for about ~2 sec. I cannot make any changes to aperture or ISO settings in that time, which is kind of annoying. I have turned off "hints & tips" in the menu, but that does not help. Is there any solution? If not, this has to be fixed in a future firmware upgrade...




Mine reacts typically pretty shot. it changes as soon as I turn one of the wheels...
How long is the time set for showing images after shooting.


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## Crosswind (Apr 29, 2017)

JoFT said:


> How long is the time set for showing images after shooting.



I've set it so zero seconds. But that should not have anything to do with the issue.

In the 1.) picture below you can see the temporary screen (in german language) and what it shows for about 2 sec. when switching between shooting modes (M -> Av -> Tv -> ...). In these ~2 seconds I cannot do anything (like change aperture or ISO setting). I basically have to wait to be able to make any changes until I see the display info (2.)).

That's annyoing in a situation when you have to quickly swap from one shooting mode to another. I'm mostly into landscapes, so it's only a minor issue, but still... I thought it's worth mentioning.

_edit: OK, I've found kind of a workaround (reduces the "waiting time"); turning the shooting mode dial, and then immediately after touching the Q-set button. This way the temporary screen goes away noticeably quicker. But it is still an unnecessary thing._


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## JoFT (May 5, 2017)

Crosswind said:


> JoFT said:
> 
> 
> > How long is the time set for showing images after shooting.
> ...




I checked this again. Mine reaction in a couple of 1/10s... Did you try to press the shutter button half way down? that was much faster....


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## Crosswind (May 7, 2017)

Yeah pressing down the shutter button half way it goes away a bit faster (same as with the QSET button), but still feels awkward. I wish that this screen could be disabled completely. I don't need the info on the screen that shows into what shooting mode I've just switched.


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## dak723 (May 7, 2017)

Crosswind said:


> Yeah pressing down the shutter button half way it goes away a bit faster (same as with the QSET button), but still feels awkward. I wish that this screen could be disabled completely. I don't need the info on the screen that shows into what shooting mode I've just switched.



Have you contacted Canon's customer support? They may know if it can be disabled - and if not - might welcome your feedback.


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## leadin2 (May 7, 2017)

Crosswind said:


> Yeah pressing down the shutter button half way it goes away a bit faster (same as with the QSET button), but still feels awkward. I wish that this screen could be disabled completely. I don't need the info on the screen that shows into what shooting mode I've just switched.



I think it is the way Canon does it, similar to the G5X software. Didn't feel the pause all along because most of the time my natural reaction is to half press the shutter button, ready for my next shot. After you have mentioned and that I have tested it again, it does feel awkward now.


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## leadin2 (May 7, 2017)

So I bought a M6 (not M5) today. Wrong thread, I know.

Tried to upload the images from my camera to computer through WIFI but couldn't find the "PC/Terminal" icon in the "Upload to Web service". After some search, I found these related chats. 

https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4093169
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4092458

Has any M5 owner tried the WIFI upload function?


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## leadin2 (May 7, 2017)

*Re: EOS M5: A damend good camera!*



jolyonralph said:


> And it's a real shame that no Canon camera has the feature that the Sony cameras do that you can charge the battery inside the camera when the USB cable is connected to a power source or a computer. Very handy for charging the camera in the car etc.



The Canon G series (G5X and likely G7X) do have USB charging. Similar to M5/M6, their box set comes with battery charger but not USB cable. Kind of weird.


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