# Future 7D Mark III



## ronaldbyram (May 26, 2017)

Hey Gang,
I know we are in the middle of the 6D Mark II and SL2 reported News releases.

But Question... I know the 7D Mark II was released September 15, 2014 and it will be 3 years this year. and that Camera makers are always racing to release the next DSLR with the hottest features. With the Nikon D500 and now the SOny A9. What guesses would you want on a 7D Mark III wish list?
Wi-FI? Removal of Anti alsis filter? TWO High speed CF or SQD cards? faster Shutter? Faster SD cards? Any other software features. I dont think we need 4K.. Is it time for a action Beast?


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## geonix (May 26, 2017)

It will have to be better than the 7D2 and at least a bit better than the D500. But what features it should/would have depends on when (and if) it comes to market.

If it comes next year to photokina (like the last one) it could have a slight increase in MP, slight increase in fps, hopefully an improved AF and 4k (30p at least). Maybe something really new to the line like touchscreen and tilt-display (if that doesn't canabalise the 80D too much) 

If it comes later, maybe it would be something different. Like a mirrorless in a dslr body (to still support EF lenses), or something different alltogether.


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## ajfotofilmagem (May 26, 2017)

Yes, the 7D Mark III can be anticipated to compete with the Nikon D500. Maybe still in 2018.

One CFast card slot and the other SD UHS-ii, not XQD.
Video 4K is quite likely, or it would look like old technology in spec sheets.
Ful HD 120 FPS.


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## [email protected] (May 26, 2017)

On-chip ADC would be my favorite addition, due to increase in image quality. That's a certainty, as even the 80D has that now. 

I'd also like to see the tilty/flippy. I've had about 10 ticks on me over the past few days while rolling in leaf litter getting pictures of lady slippers. There's no good reason for the anti t/f snobbery. 

Putting the 5D4's 30mp sensor, or something thereabouts is perfectly doable with 10 fps. I'd rather see the fps stay at ten and the mp rise than the other way around.


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## Deleted member 91053 (May 26, 2017)

For me - I would like the 7D3 to have better AF (say from the 1DX Mk1?), the battery grip updated to accept 1 series batteries - with the camera being capable of dealing with the higher voltage, newer tech sensor with a couple less MP - both to improve higher ISO. Two card slots of the same type would be nice - don't care what they are so long as they keep up! Current frame rate is fine (I run mine at 9fps) though a slightly faster "Silent Mode" fps may be appreciated by some?

As to wi fi, GPS, video, 4K etc? I care so little that it is difficult to find the words - if 1p/1c could be saved by not incorporating them I would appreciate the saving! Not going to happen though!

As a wildlife photographer I find the 7D2 is pretty good - so a Mk3 with improved AF, 2 similar card slots, improved high ISO and nice big batteries would be very attractive to me.


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## Aussie shooter (May 26, 2017)

Ahh. The hoped for 7d3 specs again. 24mp?(as long as there is still an improvement in high ISO noise performance), Touch screen(not T/F), 10fps, On chip ADC, probably 4k(don't care), Better AF processing hopefully(number of points is fine). Apart from that it really doesn't need much improvement.


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## BillB (May 26, 2017)

[email protected] said:


> On-chip ADC would be my favorite addition, due to increase in image quality. That's a certainty, as even the 80D has that now.
> 
> I'd also like to see the tilty/flippy. I've had about 10 ticks on me over the past few days while rolling in leaf litter getting pictures of lady slippers. There's no good reason for the anti t/f snobbery.
> 
> Putting the 5D4's 30mp sensor, or something thereabouts is perfectly doable with 10 fps. I'd rather see the fps stay at ten and the mp rise than the other way around.



The 7DII 20mp APS-C sensor is more dense than the 5DIV 30 mp FF sensor. By my calculations, the new 24 mp APS-C sensor would scale up to 62mp full frame. Could that be the path to a 5DsII? Not that big an mp bump, but dual pixel and on board ADC would be part of the package.


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## LonelyBoy (May 26, 2017)

BillB said:


> [email protected] said:
> 
> 
> > On-chip ADC would be my favorite addition, due to increase in image quality. That's a certainty, as even the 80D has that now.
> ...



That's my assumption. 6D2 and SL2 this year, then 24mpx 7D3 and 62mpx 5DS/R2 next year, then start the whole thing over again with the 1DX3.


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## 9VIII (May 27, 2017)

I still want a 50MP APS-C sensor, and that coming in the form of a "7DS" seems most likely. Maybe not a "7DMkIII" but still a new "7D" of sorts.

As for the 7DMkIII proper, I think they should wait until they have a universal shutter and Back Side Illumination in their own sensors. Otherwise competition from Sony would probably make the 7D3 obsolete before it comes out.
They could probably give a high end APS-C SLR a faster burst rate than the 1DX2, the smaller mirror should be able to move faster, and as long as they have a digital shutter working then I'm betting an SLR could come much closer to the burst rates of Mirrorless cameras.


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## 9VIII (May 27, 2017)

Given how much trouble everyone is having with 4K video, I think they should at least aim for 1440p 60fps.
It's still twice the resolution of Full HD and looks better on a 4K display even if it's not "4K".


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## AlanF (May 27, 2017)

Doesn't anyone want to ditch the AA filter? The superior IQ of the 5DSR when cropped over the current 7DII is clear. I'd like a switchable AA. Faster mirror? Only if it can have lessened slap. Better AF? Yes. More mp? Ok for fast lenses but slow telephotos are diffraction limited now. On-chip ADC is taken for granted now.


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## 9VIII (May 27, 2017)

AlanF said:


> Doesn't anyone want to ditch the AA filter? The superior IQ of the 5DSR when cropped over the current 7DII is clear. I'd like a switchable AA. Faster mirror? Only if it can have lessened slap. Better AF? Yes. More mp? Ok for fast lenses but slow telephotos are diffraction limited now. On-chip ADC is taken for granted now.



When the 5DSR came out it seemed like half the forum was saying how horrible it was that Canon was making a camera that encouraged irreversible moire.

I'm not one of those people, but the impression I got is that AA filters are still desirable in this neck of the woods, and that seemed to be for birding in particular with feathers that are notorious for causing moire.

If Canon still puts AA filters on the 1D line then the same logic would apply to the 7D.


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## SteveM (May 27, 2017)

Timeline suggests the 7D series come out 2 yrs after the 1D series, so, this time next year I imagine. Keep the AA filter, same fps is good, same mp is good, but, high ISO noise must be improved and the af. It will have built in wifi, flippy screens are nice, but are they a liability? I sincerely hope they keep the onboard flash, ugly light they may produce, but it is better than no shot at all due to lack of light, perfectly adequate for fill as well when you don't wish to carry a 600.


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## midluk (May 27, 2017)

SteveM said:


> Timeline suggests the 7D series come out 2 yrs after the 1D series, so, this time next year I imagine. Keep the AA filter, same fps is good, same mp is good, but, high ISO noise must be improved and the af. It will have built in wifi, flippy screens are nice, but are they a liability? I sincerely hope they keep the onboard flash, ugly light they may produce, but it is better than no shot at all due to lack of light, perfectly adequate for fill as well when you don't wish to carry a 600.



AFAIK, the other cameras with metal bodies (5D4 and 1DX2) have their wifi and GPS in the viewfinder housing. I doubt Canon manages to put wifi (and/or GPS) and internal flash in there at the same time.

I also think the 7D3 is unlikely to have a fully articulating screen, but limited up/down tilt might be possible.


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## hbr (May 27, 2017)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> Yes, the 7D Mark III can be anticipated to compete with the Nikon D500. Maybe still in 2018.



If Canon sticks with their current 5 year upgrades, I don't expect it until 2019. I bought my 6D in 2012 and now it is 2017 and I am still waiting on the Mark II,

We can hope for 2018 though.


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## LonelyBoy (May 27, 2017)

midluk said:


> SteveM said:
> 
> 
> > Timeline suggests the 7D series come out 2 yrs after the 1D series, so, this time next year I imagine. Keep the AA filter, same fps is good, same mp is good, but, high ISO noise must be improved and the af. It will have built in wifi, flippy screens are nice, but are they a liability? I sincerely hope they keep the onboard flash, ugly light they may produce, but it is better than no shot at all due to lack of light, perfectly adequate for fill as well when you don't wish to carry a 600.
> ...



How many people use the built-in flash on the 7Ds anyway?


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## IglooEater (May 27, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> How many people use the built-in flash on the 7Ds anyway?



I know a few who own 7D's and they all do. It's an acceptable solution for optically triggering speedlights, and a good deal less expensive than getting Canon's proprietary radio triggers. The case can be made that a Yongnuo RT might be more effective and as cost-effective.


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## BillB (May 27, 2017)

AlanF said:


> Doesn't anyone want to ditch the AA filter? The superior IQ of the 5DSR when cropped over the current 7DII is clear. I'd like a switchable AA. Faster mirror? Only if it can have lessened slap. Better AF? Yes. More mp? Ok for fast lenses but slow telephotos are diffraction limited now. On-chip ADC is taken for granted now.



Even with diffraction, you will get some benefit from more mp, just not as much. Guessing at the 7DIII design philosophy (high FPS etc) not sure what the mp sweetspot would be anyway. The simplest choice might be to adapt the 24mp sensor that they are putting in everything else.

Are there any issues with ditching the AA on an APS-C sensor?


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## LonelyBoy (May 27, 2017)

IglooEater said:


> LonelyBoy said:
> 
> 
> > How many people use the built-in flash on the 7Ds anyway?
> ...



In this context, however, where it's "crappy built-in flash OR wifi/GPS", I'd rather have the wifi and GPS and put a 90EX in my pocket for when I need an optical master, or a bit of fill. But maybe that's just me. No one was talking about taking the flash away in exchange for nothing, though.


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## rrcphoto (May 27, 2017)

ronaldbyram said:


> Hey Gang,
> I know we are in the middle of the 6D Mark II and SL2 reported News releases.
> 
> But Question... I know the 7D Mark II was released September 15, 2014 and it will be 3 years this year. and that Camera makers are always racing to release the next DSLR with the hottest features. With the Nikon D500 and now the SOny A9. What guesses would you want on a 7D Mark III wish list?
> Wi-FI? Removal of Anti alsis filter? TWO High speed CF or SQD cards? faster Shutter? Faster SD cards? Any other software features. I dont think we need 4K.. Is it time for a action Beast?


hmmm my guess:

24mp DPAF sensor as seen in the 80D
4K h.264 video (first time in a canon DSLR)
separate DIGIC 5+ for AF with 1DX Mark II AF including ITR
dual CF card slots
flip LCD (like the M5/M6 - not fully articulating)
Hybrid EVF/OVF first time in a Canon DSLR

That'd all be nice


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## rrcphoto (May 27, 2017)

BillB said:


> [email protected] said:
> 
> 
> > On-chip ADC would be my favorite addition, due to increase in image quality. That's a certainty, as even the 80D has that now.
> ...



5Ds is probably getting the 120mp sensor.


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## unfocused (May 27, 2017)

Definitely will have:

WiFi/Bluetooth/NFC
GPS (already there, so I don't know why people are even talking about this)
Multiple f8 focus points
Improvements in autofocus and weathersealing

Likely to have:

Slightly higher frame rate (12 fps)
Full feature touch screen
Higher Megapixel Count (28mp minimum)
4K Video
Next generation of the 5D focus shift 

Won't have:
Tilt/flip screen
Hybrid viewfinder

Uncertain:
CFast slot

With their new generation of sensors, the old trade off between megapixels and noise is not nearly as great as it once was -- See the 5DIV vs. 1DXII. While I would personally prefer lower megapixel count and better high ISO performance, I'm not sure Canon sees it as an either/or proposition anymore. 

Improvements will be evolutionary, not revolutionary.


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## IglooEater (May 27, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > LonelyBoy said:
> ...



Fair enough. I'd rather keep the pop up flash as I have no use for wifi or gps.


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## Mikehit (May 27, 2017)

To say they want the 7D3 to have the same AF as the 1Dx2 is way too simplistic. AF is a combination of metering sensor (7D = 150,000pixel, 1Dx2 is 300,000), processing power (number of processors), algorithms (they are apparently pretty much the same) and battery power to drive the lenses (no comparison, and never will be). Where the reasons lie for the twitchiness of the 7D2 I don't know but the 5DIV uses a 150,000 sensor, the same battery, and the same system as the 1Dx2 so who knows...maybe it is to do with the relative sizes off the sensor and the metering sensor.

I think the only things that would be significant move for the 7D3 is higher DR sensor and tilting screen.


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## greger (May 27, 2017)

I'm ready to trade in my 7D for the long time coming 7Dlll. If there's no articulating LCD I'll get the 80D.


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## djack41 (May 28, 2017)

Canon has a steep hill to top Nikon's D500 and 200-500mm combo. In regards to ISO performance, Canon is apparently hitting a wall with its sensor technology, as evidenced by the modest gain of the 1DX2. I vote for less MP in exchange for 2 stop ISO performance and improved frame rate. Definitely time for a tilt screen.


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## privatebydesign (May 28, 2017)

djack41 said:


> In regards to ISO performance, Canon is apparently hitting a wall with its sensor technology, as evidenced by the modest gain of the 1DX2. I vote for less MP in exchange for 2 stop ISO performance and improved frame rate. Definitely time for a tilt screen.



The 1DX MkII bests the D5 at pretty much every measurable data point. Neither is close to a stop better or worse at anything, ISO, noise, DR etc anywhere, the falacy that Canon is behind is laughable now they are only using on chip ADC's.

Mind you anybody that still buys into the myth that mp is related to ISO performance clearly needs to do some reading up. There isn't 2 stops of difference at same sized output between the 5DSR, with 50mp and off sensor ADC's, and the 5D MkIV with 30mp and on chip ADC's.


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## Aussie shooter (May 28, 2017)

AlanF said:


> Doesn't anyone want to ditch the AA filter? The superior IQ of the 5DSR when cropped over the current 7DII is clear. I'd like a switchable AA. Faster mirror? Only if it can have lessened slap. Better AF? Yes. More mp? Ok for fast lenses but slow telephotos are diffraction limited now. On-chip ADC is taken for granted now.



Good point. Removal of AA filter is a pretty good idea.

I can't see a big bump in MP. It is not needed. 24 would be plenty but I would hope it is a newer(read better at high ISO) sensor than the 80d. The Nikon D500 is how many stops better than the 7d in regards to noise. 1/2 to 1? On chip ADC and 2 years of research over the 80d should take care of most of that I would hope but we will see. Def also would hope for more F8 points.


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## pwp (May 28, 2017)

IglooEater said:


> LonelyBoy said:
> 
> 
> > How many people use the built-in flash on the 7Ds anyway?
> ...



That's hilarious. I've had a 7DII for 18 months and didn't even know it had a built in flash. I'd never use it anyway. It's mainly used as a second body to a 1DX shooting commissioned sports assignments. In my experience the 7DII AF is a match for the 1DX based on percentage of keepers tracking action. I love it.

OP don't hold your breath, I'd say the 7DIII is a long way off yet. I'd put money on 2019.

-pw


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## ronaldbyram (May 28, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > LonelyBoy said:
> ...



I use the flash on when I dont have my 580ex II handy. but I would prefer a better wifi/GPS. I love tagging my pictures but the GPS takes so long to lock in when activated. I hope there is an improvement.


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## ronaldbyram (May 28, 2017)

Hey gang! First Great conversation/feedback on the future wish list for a 7D3. I had not considered some of the options/features?

For me some of my wishes for improvement would have to be. AA filter option and then a faster buffer. I try to shoot in RAW for fast sports and I find the buffer filling up. So I have to run in JPG to keep up. Does that mean CFAST? 

I would like to have a touch screen. I have a 70D as backup and love it. 
I would like to see a boost in ISO. maybe that will mean a next gen of sensor? but Not a 1 mil like nikon 

I like using the GPS feature. but it takes the camera (mine) so long to Lock in when activated some of my pictures are not tagged. if at all. So an improvement there would be great. if that mean losing flash I could live with that. if the iso is boosted.


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## K (May 29, 2017)

Unlike all the crippling and nonsense in other lines, the 7D2 is very well specced. 

All a 7D3 would need is ---

A new sensor, with the on-chip ADC for better DR. This is a given.
Touch Screen (doesn't even need to be tilt or articulating, as that compromises the rugged, pro build quality).

Other nice things might include -

1 more FPS just to show progress. 
Newer better connectivity options. 
An opportunity to finally implemented UHS-II or a faster card for faster buffer clearing.

But really, just a new sensor and touch screen would be enough to keep the 7D3 completely on par or ahead in its category. The 6D line on the other hand, lags far behind the competition and the 6D2 is unlikely to change that. So 7D owners be happy!


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## BasXcanon (May 29, 2017)

Guys don't get all too excited as the unleash of the Mark III might take longer as people are suggesting here.
But it will be like this.

-20MP with increased Iso and DR performance.
-Double 7 DIGIC (off course)
-12-14 FPS 
-16FPS during live view (1DXm2)
-Autofocus Cases for Dualpixel focus control
-Strong AA filter will be implemented to deal with Feather pattern issues.
-Video 4K, 30fps at smallest crop possible and can't be recorded on external SSD, just like 5Dm4
-Video 1080P records on external SSD (pro-res)
-Electronic Video stability, from the M5/800D
-Diffraction correction applied to the photos.
-Buffer on-pair with competition, but slightly below the 1DXm2
-Autofocus system from the 5Dm4
-More autofocus points with F8 lenses like the 5Dm4
-Touchscreen and Wifi and Bluetooth
-3'2 back screen and increased resolution.
-Priced €2000, bad mouthed on youtube and the forums


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## SteveM (May 29, 2017)

Nikon can manage to provide wifi and a pop up flash (D7200; D750) so I can't see why Canon can't. Lack of a pop up isn't a deal breaker for me personally as I have other options when I don't wish to carry a 430 or 600 (not everybody is fortunate enough to have more than 1 camera body though). Better high ISO noise is a deal breaker if not achieved.
Personally I have no interest in gps.


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## Don Haines (May 29, 2017)

SteveM said:


> Nikon can manage to provide wifi and a pop up flash (D7200; D750) so I can't see why Canon can't.


Being as Canon already has the 80D, 70D, 77D, T7i, T6s, T6i, and T6 with WiFi and a pop-up flash, I am pretty sure that Canon has the ability to do so as well.....


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## Rockskipper (May 29, 2017)

I like the popup flash and use it a lot for action indoor pet photos (I have 3 dogs and 3 cats and they are very entertaining). After using the tilt screen on my M5, I can say it's come in very handy and would be nice.


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## K (May 31, 2017)

BasXcanon said:


> Guys don't get all too excited as the unleash of the Mark III might take longer as people are suggesting here.




No doubt about that. Won't see it till late 2018 the earliest. I'm thinking the 5DS and 5DSR would get an updated sensor before the 7D3 comes out. Then again, if users are happy with the 5DS as is, then Canon will milk that for as long as they can...



> -12-14 FPS
> -16FPS during live view (1DXm2)




Not a chance.


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## ahsanford (May 31, 2017)

2019 at the earliest. Canon's cycle refresh times never (ever) get shorter as time goes on as they are creating new lines of cameras that add the weight of the pipeline.

But expect a considerably better sensor, touchscreen implementation like the 5D4, and probably a small boost in fps. There will be other little things, I'm sure, but the screaming need will be the sensor. Due to its place in the cycle refresh queue, this will be the last rig to get the on-chip ADC hotness.

...when it comes out in 2019. The D500 would have to be stealing large numbers of 7D2 sales to get Canon to change gears and deploy a 7D3 any sooner, and we've seen zero evidence of that publicly.

- A


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## SteveM (May 31, 2017)

Just been comparing the 7D Mkll with the Nikon D500 over on 'Image Comparimeter' - a 7D mkll file at 800 iso looks very similar to a D500 file at 3200 iso. 2 stops difference. Is the gap really that big? Anybody found any other evidence to support or refute this?


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## Mikehit (May 31, 2017)

SteveM said:


> Just been comparing the 7D Mkll with the Nikon D500 over on 'Image Comparimeter' - a 7D mkll file at 800 iso looks very similar to a D500 file at 3200 iso. 2 stops difference. Is the gap really that big? Anybody found any other evidence to support or refute this?



I don't agree with your conclusion.


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## unfocused (May 31, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> SteveM said:
> 
> 
> > Just been comparing the 7D Mkll with the Nikon D500 over on 'Image Comparimeter' - a 7D mkll file at 800 iso looks very similar to a D500 file at 3200 iso. 2 stops difference. Is the gap really that big? Anybody found any other evidence to support or refute this?
> ...



Neither does the much-maligned DXOmark. In fact, most testers have found that at higher ISOs, the two are virtually indistinguishable.


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## SteveM (May 31, 2017)

SteveM said:


> Just been comparing the 7D Mkll with the Nikon D500 over on 'Image Comparimeter' - a 7D mkll file at 800 iso looks very similar to a D500 file at 3200 iso. 2 stops difference. Is the gap really that big? Anybody found any other evidence to support or refute this?



To add to my own post, probably a better picture is reflected for me on dpreview where the difference appears to be less than 1 stop. Which logically probably reflects the reality better. Happily, a lot less difference than I originally thought. In some ways I wish the Nikon sensor were considerably better in high iso as that would give Canon the leeway to improve theirs. As it looks, sensors may have virtually maxed out with noise. Disappointing.

On the Image Comparometer site I'm looking at the bottom left of the crayons box, and I still see a big difference in visible noise and sharpness of edges. 
C'est la vie.
If Canon can better that sensor, I'll upgrade with little hesitation. Noise at 1600 - 3200 iso is a big deal for me.


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## JMZawodny (May 31, 2017)

IglooEater said:


> LonelyBoy said:
> 
> 
> > How many people use the built-in flash on the 7Ds anyway?
> ...



I read this and said to myself "Built-in flash! What built-in flash?" Sure enough, I found one on my body. So, count me as one who never uses the built-in flash. Honestly, I rarely use a flash so this should not surprise me.


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## luckydude (Jun 5, 2017)

johnf3f said:


> For me - I would like the 7D3 to have better AF (say from the 1DX Mk1?)



I have never been that excited about the 7D2, it just hasn't given me as many keepers as the 5DIII. 

So I would pay $3-4K for a 7D<anything> that was basically a 5DIII (or 5DIV I guess, haven't used one) in a crop factor.
What I mean by that is I want a 5DIII that has 1.6X the reach with no loss in image quality. 

For me, the 7D2 has not come close to delivering that. It's good if you don't pixel peep but sometimes I shoot surfing and the 7D2 sucks at that compared to the 5DIII. It seems to gather a lot more noise, noise that you really see at 100%. The 5D does much better at not gathering that noise. Has anyone else noticed that?


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## Keith_Reeder (Jun 5, 2017)

luckydude said:


> The 5D does much better at not gathering that noise. Has anyone else noticed that?



Well it's full frame, so that's what you'd expect.

That said - the 7DMk II is _brilliant_ at higher ISOs (for a crop camera) _if you convert the files well_.

This is a 100% crop of one of my files at 4000 ISO - and it's noiseless.

And here's 6400 ISO at 100% - again, no noise.

These are straight out of the converter, with no additional PP NR applied. Admittedly the 4000 ISO one was in decent light, but the 6400 ISO crop was in very dull low light. 

And in both cases, the full image is sharp, squeaky-clean, and full of detail.


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