# 5DS R review by Ming Thein



## ahsanford (Aug 19, 2015)

http://blog.mingthein.com/2015/08/19/long-term-canon-5dsr/

Overall perspectives on the 5DS R. Not a test charts / corner crops / noise comparison sort of review -- it's more his observations from general usage. 

Fairly thorough pros/cons as well. Worth a look.

- A


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## zim (Aug 19, 2015)

Thanks for the link, good read, even the comments at the end were interesting and civil!! 
Funny thing for me was that his cons weren't so much for me so it kinda made the camera more attractive than it's been to me before. Anyway I'm on the long game and will continue to wait for the 5div


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## Hector1970 (Aug 20, 2015)

Yes I thought it was a very fair review too.
I've certainly been tempted by this camera but its good to hear from real experience what the pluses and minuses are.
It seems a camera where if you are not careful about your set up you could get worse pictures than your existing gear.


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## jeffa4444 (Aug 20, 2015)

Be even more amazing to compare it to the Sony A7r II rather than the Nikon D810


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## gputah (Aug 20, 2015)

It sounds like part of the problem he had was the fact that he was using adapters and lenses not designed to work with the camera. While I'm sure these lenses are amazing, if they aren't designed to be used with a specific camera in mind, they don't produce the images they are capable of. Same with the camera. I have found from personal experience that adapters can cause all kinds of issues, so I stick to the mount that the camera has. 

I would have loved to see a bit more dynamic range, however Canon has come a long way with ISO performance with this camera and the 7D MK II as far as banding and shadow noise. 

I wonder how different the review was if he had maybe the Sigma 50 1.4 Art, Sigma 35mm Art, Canon 11-24 f4 and perhaps the Canon 70-300L, which he mentioned but I don't think he used. Or even the 70-200 f2.8 II. It was a good review, but I think because of the use of adapters, manual focus and live view, its not a good representation of what the camera is capable of. I would say the vast majority that invest in this camera will be using EF mount lenses.


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## wtlloyd (Aug 20, 2015)

I think it's pretty clear that this camera doesn't fit his shooting style, not that he chose the wrong lenses - that's a claim I've read elsewhere, when he started his review. And yet he laments that he can't continue to use the camera, he really likes it.

I've been reading his blog for a while, I think he is second to none with astonishing compositional skills. It's a real eye-opener to go back and read/look at his posts.


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## Zeidora (Aug 20, 2015)

It's the wrong tool for him. OK. No problem. So is an 8x10". Doesn't make either bad.
Additionally, he's heavily invested in Nikon, and that is fine as well. ... sort of ;-)

The idea that there is a linear increase of camera quality all around does not apply. The 5Ds is striking example of a lateral off-shoot. The complaint that unless you use spot-on technique, you get poor IQ, is like complaining about the lack of ground clearance of a Ferrari to go off-roading. The 5DsR is a specialized tool, and unless you are willing to treat it as that, you will not be happy, regardless of who you are. MT is the poster boy for that. All the creative vision is for naught, unless you also use top technique with this body.

P.S. His comments on exposure like on slide film made me chuckle as someone growing up on slide film. The complaint about evaluative metering is equally funny. Center weighted and exposure compensation, or as ultimate approach, incident metering with external light meter (I use Sekonic 558L) are available. Why not complain about Program-auto not being spot on? Or AF functionality with Zeiss lenses? MF being hard, well, maybe use dedicated focusing screen.

Battery life is a bit on the low side. I've noticed that even with grip. But nothing unmanageable. Again, specialized tool, specialized technique, some trade-offs.


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## Random Orbits (Aug 20, 2015)

gputah said:


> It sounds like part of the problem he had was the fact that he was using adapters and lenses not designed to work with the camera. While I'm sure these lenses are amazing, if they aren't designed to be used with a specific camera in mind, they don't produce the images they are capable of. Same with the camera. I have found from personal experience that adapters can cause all kinds of issues, so I stick to the mount that the camera has.
> 
> I would have loved to see a bit more dynamic range, however Canon has come a long way with ISO performance with this camera and the 7D MK II as far as banding and shadow noise.
> 
> I wonder how different the review was if he had maybe the Sigma 50 1.4 Art, Sigma 35mm Art, Canon 11-24 f4 and perhaps the Canon 70-300L, which he mentioned but I don't think he used. Or even the 70-200 f2.8 II. It was a good review, but I think because of the use of adapters, manual focus and live view, its not a good representation of what the camera is capable of. I would say the vast majority that invest in this camera will be using EF mount lenses.


The thing I got from him is that the it is a good camera and a good system, but that he's not willing to outfit two systems and travel with two systems. Each system has it's advantages/disadvantages. He's more invested in the Nikon ecosystem and has chosen to remain with it.


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## NancyP (Aug 20, 2015)

Short summary: Great time to be a photographer. Canon and Nikon systems excellent. Choices depend on needs, personal preference, and prior investment in lenses.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Aug 20, 2015)

"Preservation of the original file when running crop modes; only the crop selected is tagged but not permanently baked in. With the Nikons, you lose the rest of the file."

Whoa that was put in as a PLUS for the 5Ds?
This is actually a mega-negative and it was put in to cripple the camera so you have to keep your 5D3 or add a 7D2 or whatnot.

What is the point of a crop mode that doesn't actually crop? The 5Ds is stuck with very tepid buffer performance for RAW shooting even in crop mode and doesn't gain any fps and you are stuck wasting tons of disk space.

OTOH, with the D810, you can shoot for days in crop mode even when shooting RAW, and you gain enough fps to bring it into sports/action territory. With the 5Ds all you get is a useless note in the RAW header that the user was shooting in crop mode. You get no fps increase, no buffer increase and you still have store gigantic 50MP files wasting your CF space, your HD space, all for nothing if you are say shooting distant wildlife and birds.

How in the world does the Canon crop mode make more sense? It doesn't work for RAW where it could give you tons of benefit but it does work for JPG where the benefit is almost nothing.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Aug 20, 2015)

"Much better color out of the box, especially for foliage and landscapes. This was also very visible in print, with a significant advantage over the Nikon; I’d have to do significant compensation work on files with the D810, but the 5DSR’s files just looked correct and pleasing after a single initial camera profile. "

I suppose it could be true, but it seems very surprising, since green foliage and reds are supposed to be exactly where Canon's messing with the CFA filters have been said to have made their cameras less accurate and less able to distinguish subtle color shades. This is where all the color science guys as well as many shooters had been saying Nikon does better. It was for skin tones that Canon has said to be a bit easier (from a certain point of view) so the Canon tries to wash many skin tones to all the same generally pleasing, smoothed tone.


"I have no explanation for this other than native tonal response at the highlight and shadow ends of the green channel isn’t linear; this is probably related to the non-ISO-invariance of the sensor."

I'm not sure any of this makes sense from a technical standpoint. He might be seeing something, but I think he got lost when trying to offer some tech reasons for whatever he saw.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Aug 20, 2015)

" and there was no popup flash to accidentally deploy and break."

Personally I'd call this a negative. How many times has anyone every accidentally deployed and then broken a pop up flash? Never? Why is the anti-built-in flash/flip screen crowd so paranoid about such things? If you don't want to use flip screen, keep it locked to the body. If you don't want to use pop-up flash, don't use it. I can't even recall a single story where someone even broke the flip screen without having smashed either the rest of the body too or had it hit in a way that the screen would not have need to have been replaced anyway. And I've definitely not once ever heard someone accidentally trigger the flash and then snap it off a second later.

OTOH, a little rescue fill or rescue flash can be very nice here and there.

The only negative regarding the flash is that Nikon apparently set it too low and it apparently can bump one of their T&S lenses when the lens is set to one position.

I do agree with all of the other stuff, aside from things I brought up in my posts above, that he says are 5Ds positives over Nikon though (other than the AF stuff, where I have no opinion).



"Dynamic range is limited compared to the D810 – about 2 stops at base ISO, by my estimation. And that gap increases as you go up the sensitivity range."

This plus for the Nikon sounds odd in that I'd think the gap would decrease as the ISO goes up. (for the new 42MP Sony sensor this might be closer to the truth, in that that one also does extra well for high ISO DR too apparently, although even then, the gap would still be a touch closer at high ISO I believe, OTOH at very high ISO often more of the image is in the depths and since the DR is so limited more lower midtones start getting hit by DR issues so perhaps effectively the gap might seem at least as large at high ISO with the new Sony sensor).


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## dcm (Aug 20, 2015)

Ming's not alone. I spoke with a friend at work that has always used Nikon. He takes a fall trip to Yellowstone every year and shoots many of the same locations each time. Been doing this for 35 years for a pictorial showing the change over the years, all shot on Nikon. He was a bit bummed that Nikon's new 200-500 won't be available in time for his trip this year. 

He has a D800 and decided to skip the D810 to see what followed. I was quite surprised when he started talking about the 5DS R and asking my thoughts - he knew I've been considering it and seems to have done his research. Seems the 5DS R ticks his boxes and tickles his fancy. He's seriously considering it, even if it does cost him some new lenses.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Aug 20, 2015)

dcm said:


> He has a D800 and decided to skip the D810 to see what followed. I was quite surprised when he started talking about the 5DS R and asking my thoughts - he knew I've been considering it and seems to have done his research. Seems the 5DS R ticks his boxes and tickles his fancy. He's seriously considering it, even if it does cost him some new lenses.



Wow pretty surprised since I think the next Nikon would have the A7RII sensor it it and it might pick up internal 4k oversampled recording and the improved DR is apparently now not just for low ISO but also mid and high ISO shooting too. (granted some nicer Canon lenses, including even some unique ones, and nicer UI so I can see the pull of that stuff)

(Also how does this bring Ming more company, someone swapping to 5Ds?, when Ming said the opposite, he won't give up his Nikon to go to the 5Ds.)


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## dcm (Aug 20, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> dcm said:
> 
> 
> > He has a D800 and decided to skip the D810 to see what followed. I was quite surprised when he started talking about the 5DS R and asking my thoughts - he knew I've been considering it and seems to have done his research. Seems the 5DS R ticks his boxes and tickles his fancy. He's seriously considering it, even if it does cost him some new lenses.
> ...



Only that long time Nikon users are seriously looking at the 5DS. Not necessarily to swap, but in addition to their Nikon gear as in Ming's case. In the end I think my friend may come to the same conclusion as Ming - he won't want to deal with two systems. But the fact he is even looking was a total surprise after 30 some years of photography discussions with him - mostly not about gear.


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## Gordonium (Aug 20, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> "Dynamic range is limited compared to the D810 – about 2 stops at base ISO, by my estimation. And that gap increases as you go up the sensitivity range."
> 
> This plus for the Nikon sounds odd in that I'd think the gap would decrease as the ISO goes up. (for the new 42MP Sony sensor this might be closer to the truth, in that that one also does extra well for high ISO DR too apparently, although even then, the gap would still be a touch closer at high ISO I believe, OTOH at very high ISO often more of the image is in the depths and since the DR is so limited more lower midtones start getting hit by DR issues so perhaps effectively the gap might seem at least as large at high ISO with the new Sony sensor).



I will probably agree 2 stops difference at base ISO, but the gap has to close down at higher ISO or science doesn't work.
In fact science can predict they should be similar in DR at ISO1600.


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## douglaurent (Aug 21, 2015)

NancyP said:


> Short summary: Great time to be a photographer. Canon and Nikon systems excellent. Choices depend on needs, personal preference, and prior investment in lenses.



The complete summary is:
- It is a good time for a Nikon user, but only if you are a photographer
- It is a great time to be a Canon user, but if you're a filmmaker only if you invest lots of money
- It is an excellent time to be a Sony user


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## tapanit (Aug 21, 2015)

douglaurent said:


> The complete summary is:
> - It is a good time for a Nikon user, but only if you are a photographer
> - It is a great time to be a Canon user, but if you're a filmmaker only if you invest lots of money
> - It is an excellent time to be a Sony user


I'd say it's a great time, whether you are Nikon, Canon or Sony user.
Their relative strengths notwithstanding, all make fantastic gear compared to just a few years back.


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## deletemyaccount (Aug 21, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> dcm said:
> 
> 
> > He has a D800 and decided to skip the D810 to see what followed. I was quite surprised when he started talking about the 5DS R and asking my thoughts - he knew I've been considering it and seems to have done his research. Seems the 5DS R ticks his boxes and tickles his fancy. He's seriously considering it, even if it does cost him some new lenses.
> ...



Outsourcing sony sensors would stop a lot of whining here but for how long


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## fragilesi (Aug 21, 2015)

It's excellent to get reviews like this. As others have said this guy clearly knows his stuff and despite his investment in Nikon isn't afraid to talk about the merits of the Canon body. This kind of review has far more influence on anything I choose than DXOMark etc.

And of course with Canon Rumors the Sony & Nikon marketing teams have their opportunity to reply to anything that dares to suggest Canon bodies are still competitive and have a lot of merit ;D


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## Bernard (Aug 21, 2015)

Here's what I got from that short article.

1 Getting the most out of a high-res sensor is hard. This is nothing new, but everyone needs to learn this eventually. Getting the most out of a large format film camera was hard too.

2 Optical viewfinders matter. That being said, if your system has an optical finder, don't screw it up with a non-interchangeable soft-focus screen.

3 There's no point changing systems for a small improvement in quality. Internet pundits are always "dumping brand X and switching to brand Y." It's mostly a waste of time, you will just miss the features of brand X that you were accustomed to, and it could take months to assimilate the different way brand Y works.

4 Proper technique matters. You need to know how to meter and focus, even if the brochure says otherwise.


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## NancyP (Aug 21, 2015)

Bernard, your point about the value of interchangeable screens is one I wish Canon would notice for the 5D series. 
My 6D "entry level full frame" camera has interchangeable screens, I installed the superfine Eg-S, and I am much happier doing manual focusing. This makes it fun to use manual lenses, including legacies from film days. Not that you would want to use most film era lenses on high-resolution cameras, unless you go to the trouble to make a lens correction profile.


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## Stu_bert (Aug 22, 2015)

fragilesi said:


> It's excellent to get reviews like this. As others have said this guy clearly knows his stuff and despite his investment in Nikon isn't afraid to talk about the merits of the Canon body. This kind of review has far more influence on anything I choose than DXOMark etc.



Agreed. He's reviewed the A7r previously also (not the II yet). He gives a balanced view on all equipment. And as has been said countless times here and elsewhere, you can't go wrong with the current or previous generation of cameras. Sure there are enhancements between generations and manufacturers, but if you can't take an award-winning shot with them, chances are it's not the equipment to blame...


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## NadaMal (Aug 24, 2015)

I think I've read just about every review there is on the 5DS R before I bought it, and I've had it now for two months and this is the first review I've read since I purchased it.

I absolutely agree 100% with his take on it, he provides a very reasoned and accurate take on the camera. Its a more demanding camera than the 5D3 or my old 5D2, but despite its faults I already love it.


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