# Interview with Canon Executives at CP+



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 28, 2017)

```
<p>DPReview had the opportunity to sit down with some executives from Canon and talk about all things cameras. They covered a bit about 4K implementation, mirrorless cameras , 360° tools and even a little about film cameras.</p>
<blockquote><p><strong>Q: Looking at 4K TV saturation, what kind of time-frame does that suggest and when do you think it will be necessary to have 4K in every part of your product line?</strong></p>
<p>A: We obviously have to look at the technical feasibility of it, cost-wise, as well as [the challenge of power consumption]. Those factors will tell us how we will introduce 4K technologies going forward.</p>
<p>We will continue to challenge and overcome these technical hurdles that we are seeing at moment in introducing 4K into our entire product lineup. But it is important to keep in mind that we don’t want to harm the original inherent concept of these products. 4K should compliment, rather than hinder.</p>
<p><strong>Q: The EOS M series continues to expand. What is the long term goal of the M series in terms of market share?</strong></p>
<p>A: That is a difficult question to respond to with a simple answer because we don’t have a particular number set in terms of getting the market share for the mirrorless market. This is because we are a company that produces [both mirrorless and DSLR], as a total package.</p>
<p>Our intention is to become number one in the overall ILC market: mirrorless and SLR. Different regions would have different penetration and different market share of mirrorless products.</p>
<p><strong>Q: Do you think there could be a professional-level EOS M model sometime in the future?</strong></p>
<p>A: Obviously we think it could be possible, there is a potential, but we do not want to put a time frame on that.</p>
<p><strong>Q: Do you have any plans to enter the VR or 360 markets?</strong></p>
<p>A: We’re always looking to see what sorts of new visual means of expression we can offer to our customers, 360 imaging included. So, yes, we are considering how we can leverage 360 technology.</p></blockquote>
<p>You can read the <a href="https://www.dpreview.com/interviews/8800039083/cp-2017-canon-interview">rest of the interview at DPReview</a>.</p>
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## rrcphoto (Feb 28, 2017)

"We’re letting the customer, market and demand tell us how we should go about approaching different regions. Because if you’re looking at a market with a high level of mirrorless penetration, we would obviously look to push forward with the EOS M series in that region. And we will watch and see: are Rebel users moving on to the EOS M? Frankly, if that becomes inevitable, it is something we will support. Having said that, overall we are looking to simply be number one the combined SLR and mirrorless market, offering a total package."

Can we officially lay to rest the tired whining about canon protecting it's DSLR products now?


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## eguzowski (Feb 28, 2017)

"But it is important to keep in mind that we don’t want to harm the original inherent concept of these products. 4K should compliment, rather than hinder." -Canon

?

My iPhone 6 plus (last generation) just shot awesome 4k for over an hour without a hiccup? LOL sooo....my iPhone that cossets under $1k shoot 4k video (no time limit) has a lens, a computer, apps, wifi, email, browser, huge touch screen etc etc is better than the latest generation Canon $2k DSLR in terms of photo/video performance....sad and transparent excuse (BTW they have no problem sticking more MP and marketing it in their cameras) Thanks Sony, Panasonic and Sigma for "doing your job" and appeasing the demand of the market!


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 28, 2017)

eguzowski said:


> "But it is important to keep in mind that we don’t want to harm the original inherent concept of these products. 4K should compliment, rather than hinder." -Canon
> 
> ?
> 
> My iPhone 6 plus (last generation) just shot awesome 4k for over an hour without a hiccup? LOL sooo....my iPhone that cossets under $1k shoot 4k video (no time limit) has a lens, a computer, apps, wifi, email, browser, huge touch screen etc etc is better than the latest generation Canon $2k DSLR in terms of photo/video performance....sad and transparent excuse (BTW they have no problem sticking more MP and marketing it in their cameras) Thanks Sony, Panasonic and Sigma for "doing your job" and appeasing the demand of the market!



Not all 4K is created equal, Canon's biggest advantage in the cinematography world is their image quality. I think they want a cohesive line from the bottom all the way to the C700. For all the crap they received when they launched the Cinema EOS line, most of it went away once people actually started to shoot with it. The biggest compliments were the ergonomics and the image quality.

I've seen enough 4K video from cellphones to know it was created by a cellphone. Just like photographs.


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## LonelyBoy (Feb 28, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> eguzowski said:
> 
> 
> > "But it is important to keep in mind that we don’t want to harm the original inherent concept of these products. 4K should compliment, rather than hinder." -Canon
> ...



Yeah, I would have probably phrased it as "We're not going to release 'checkbox 4k'; we'll release it when it can be world-class."

It's also probably easier to cool a tiny iPhone sensor than a big DSLR sensor. It's a neat trick, but Canon isn't invested in letting someone's video of their kid blowing out birthday candles or cat chasing a laser pointer be in 4k to be uploaded to social media and further compressed.


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## Sharlin (Feb 28, 2017)

> [C]ompared to two years ago we’re now seeing a slowing down of mirrorless taking over. We were expecting to see more mirrorless taking off, keeping that momentum, but that has not happened.



I think this was one of the most interesting bits of the interview. When even Canon ) is surprised by how the growth of mirrorless is slower than expected, I think it's safe to say "mirrorslappers" aren't going to go away any time soon.


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## scrup (Feb 28, 2017)

I'm glad they admitted the m5 is not the pro camera everyone was hoping for.

Hopefully a pro model comes out before my A7ii dies


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## scrup (Feb 28, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> I've seen enough 4K video from cellphones to know it was created by a cellphone. Just like photographs.



The M's have crappy video. My smartphone 4k video blows the 1080 on the M. 

Is it even really 1080 on these M cameras?


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## bp (Feb 28, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> > [C]ompared to two years ago we’re now seeing a slowing down of mirrorless taking over. We were expecting to see more mirrorless taking off, keeping that momentum, but that has not happened.
> 
> 
> 
> I think this was one of the most interesting bits of the interview. When even Canon ) is surprised by how the growth of mirrorless is slower than expected, I think it's safe to say "mirrorslappers" aren't going to go away any time soon.



Of course mirrorslappers won't go away any time soon. It's old but proven tech. But a "slowing down" does not equate to a reversal. I read that as an admission they've sat on their hands for two years, when they could've realeased a mirrorless model in EF mount, to prevent migration over to other systems, keep shooters sucking on the EF-line teat. The fact that they're surprised at the slowing of momentum makes it even more mind boggling.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 28, 2017)

scrup said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > I've seen enough 4K video from cellphones to know it was created by a cellphone. Just like photographs.
> ...



I have not used the M5, I still use a 5D2 for video =D


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## Jopa (Feb 28, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> scrup said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...



I don't think that was a trustworthy comment, don't feed the troll 
DPAF alone is AMAZING for video. This dude has lots of comparisons on YT: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ra_E_0-3nSE
And what's even more amazing, we can have this technology in <$1k cameras now.


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## TheSpoiler72 (Feb 28, 2017)

"4K should compliment, rather than hinder"....This from Canon, the same company who released 4K on the Canon 1D-C, the 5D Mark IV and the 1Dx Mark II that, while it compliments the camera sales, it grossly hinders the camera operator's ability to get the 4K footage out of the camera.

I wish the interviewer would have pressed the Canon representative on the possibility of 4K out in a firmware update on these cameras.


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## njene (Feb 28, 2017)

eguzowski said:


> "But it is important to keep in mind that we don’t want to harm the original inherent concept of these products. 4K should compliment, rather than hinder." -Canon
> 
> ?
> 
> My iPhone 6 plus (last generation) just shot awesome 4k for over an hour without a hiccup? LOL sooo....my iPhone that cossets under $1k shoot 4k video (no time limit) has a lens, a computer, apps, wifi, email, browser, huge touch screen etc etc is better than the latest generation Canon $2k DSLR in terms of photo/video performance....sad and transparent excuse (BTW they have no problem sticking more MP and marketing it in their cameras) Thanks Sony, Panasonic and Sigma for "doing your job" and appeasing the demand of the market!



You know your little iphone sensor is about the size of your baby finger thumbnail?
While phones in general produce pretty great quality images considering, they cant hold a candle to a dslr or mirrorless when it comes to high level quality


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## scrup (Feb 28, 2017)

Jopa said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > scrup said:
> ...



DPAF is useless with manual lenses. Does not make up for resolution.


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## Hflm (Feb 28, 2017)

scrup said:


> Jopa said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...


Your smartphone does things o.k if you are happy with immense DOF and shooting in good light. It has the software to make it look good out of the box, as people don't want to grade later but share immediately another usually worthless video most people forget a minute later. And many even think it to be equal to pro level cinema cameras.

Good comment:
http://blog.planet5d.com/2016/12/heres-another-iphone-vs-50000-camera-comparison-also-heres-why-its-absolutely-pointless-and-damaging/


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## AvTvM (Feb 28, 2017)

nothing but the usual Canon exec blather ... a total waste of time interviewing those *Racial slur removed by Mod*


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## IglooEater (Feb 28, 2017)

njene said:


> eguzowski said:
> 
> 
> > "But it is important to keep in mind that we don’t want to harm the original inherent concept of these products. 4K should compliment, rather than hinder." -Canon
> ...



The iPhone 6 sensor is 4.9x 3.7mm. (3/16 x 5/32) for the imperial guys.) That's a good deal smaller than anyone's baby fingernail. Actually, maybe the size of my 6mo baby's baby finger.


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## slclick (Feb 28, 2017)

IglooEater said:


> njene said:
> 
> 
> > eguzowski said:
> ...




Look, finally something that doesn't disparage orange's good name!


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## jeffa4444 (Feb 28, 2017)

Why did DPreview not ask questions about FF and in particular the 6D MKII


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## AvTvM (Mar 1, 2017)

they are NOT saying anything.

Read this interview with the Fuji guys for a comparison. 
http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2017/02/28/fujifilm-qa-cp-2017-fuji-gfx-insights-4k-video-future-lens-plans-instant-fi

That's worthwhile to me - even when I personally do not agree with at least half of what is being said. But they are TELLING something. Canon interviews .. bla bla bla ... nothing meaningful said.


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## Mikehit (Mar 1, 2017)

is that the Canon rep or the questions they were asked?
Look at the questions like-for-like and there is not a lot of difference - unless you care to elaborate?


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## goldenhusky (Mar 1, 2017)

> "We obviously have to look at the technical feasibility of it, cost-wise, as well as [the challenge of power consumption]. Those factors will tell us how we will introduce 4K technologies going forward.


That is the most ignorant answer anyone can expect from an executive of top photography equipment designer and manufaccturer in the world and the first company to implement 4k video shooting in a DSLR form (1DC) and especailly after 4 of their competitors (I know, I know, per canon and some people here there is no competition for the "Industry leader") offering 4K video capability in low cost consumer model cameras for a few years now. 


> "the challenge of power consumption"


 increase the battery size dumb asses and give us a kick ass camera. Some people will complain about the size and weight once they start using it all those complaints will vanish without a trace


> "We will continue to challenge and overcome these technical hurdles"


 I wonder what the hell is that technical hurdle they are talking about in 2017 


> "4K should compliment, rather than hinder"


 Now it is up to this lunatics to figure out the 4K implementation in 1dxii and 5D4 is the hindrance or compliment


> "Our intention is to become number one in the overall ILC market"


 Aren't they number one in ILC market in the entire world already? I wonder if these guys were even sober when they answered this question

Sorry people not to offend lot of you here on this forum but I just can't take it. I am an enthusiast primarily shoots canon and loving canon products so far. I had to buy an a6300 mainly for 4k and HFS because stupid canon would not offer anything in their consumer camera line up unless someone shells out $8k (may be $4k now). While I still love their products they are annoying me to the core as a company. 

Some of the other non sense are not including UHS-II and cfast cards in the 5D4. Had they done that at least magic lantern will offer some help (I am still hoping for it). 

When asked about why no 4K HDMI out on the 5D4 canon's response was their design engineers did not had access to the HDMI 2.0 hardware when they designed the camera. It is as ignorant as the answers we have got now. 

No one can find out the shutter count of their latest camera models anymore. They were already making it hard to get the count but now they have completely blocked it. Why would they block anyone from getting the shutter count on purpose? what sought of non sense is that? It is very easy for them to just show the shutter count in the menu itself.

I guess there are people from all parts of the world here in this forum. Aren't 4k TVs predominant in most places on the earth with the exception of some markets in Asia and Africa? I saw a stat that said in 2016 alone there were more than 48 million 4K TVs sold across the globe. I could not get the break up by market though. So I guess there are not enough 4K displays is a lame argument at this point. Anyone who have numbers broken by markets please let me know. 

I acknowledge Canon is the undisputed leader in the photography equipment business at this point but if they do not innovate they cannot continue as leader for long. Anyone saying no Canon will not sink, just look at Nokia not long ago they were worlds #1 handset makers but no where now. I know they have stamped the NOKIA name on some foxxconn junk as of now. My point is that there is no such thing called indisputable in this tech world any more. Canon still has the potential. They can introduce a decent mirroless cameras in 2018 and still steal sales from other manufacturer's camp. But time is running out fast for them. One more thing I wonder is that all along they have filled a lot of patents but nothing extra ordinary is coming to the market. What the hell are they doing with those patents? Hope Canon will understand this and take the lead position to bring back innovative products to market.


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## AvTvM (Mar 1, 2017)

jeffa4444 said:


> Why did DPreview not ask questions about FF and in particular the 6D MKII



they are tame pussies, no real interviewers or journalists. 
I would not conduct "interviews" with such people who don't say shit. Or I would at least not print it. 
Actually, one should buy 1 Canon share, attend their stock holder meeting and really publicly grill these execs there. I'd have a question or 2 for them.


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## Jopa (Mar 1, 2017)

scrup said:


> DPAF is useless with manual lenses. Does not make up for resolution.



It's useless with manual lenses indeed, it also can't autofocus diesel engines, teapots and ballerinas. But guess what - it works great with AF lenses!


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## Woody (Mar 1, 2017)

goldenhusky said:


> I acknowledge Canon is the undisputed leader in the photography equipment business at this point but if they do not innovate they cannot continue as leader for long.



I've heard the above statement repeated ad nauseam in various internet forums for the past few years... ;D



goldenhusky said:


> Anyone saying no Canon will not sink, just look at Nokia not long ago they were worlds #1 handset makers but no where now.



Nokia fell apart because when big clunky smartphones arrived, they did not believe big clunky things could take the world by storm. I was surprised too.

When mirrorless cameras arrived, everyone thought they would take the world by storm. But reality paints a different picture. Even Canon execs are surprised: "... But having said that, compared to two years ago we’re now seeing a slowing down of mirrorless taking over. We were expecting to see more mirrorless taking off, keeping that momentum, but that has not happened."

Oooops!

If something new arrives on the horizon and decimates the camera market, everyone falls apart: Canon, Nikon, Olympus, Pentax etc etc. Canon won't be alone. Sony may still be OK as they are pretty diversified and may continue to survive in the sensor market... We shall see.


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## Ryan P (Mar 1, 2017)

njene said:


> eguzowski said:
> 
> 
> > "But it is important to keep in mind that we don’t want to harm the original inherent concept of these products. 4K should compliment, rather than hinder." -Canon
> ...



Are you sure about that? See the link below for a comparison of the iPhone 7+ and the $50K RED Weapon. If you have good light, the small sensor can be a blessing. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztpX3AO1UtU


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## Woody (Mar 1, 2017)

Ryan P said:


> Are you sure about that? See the link below for a comparison of the iPhone 7+ and the $50K RED Weapon. If you have good light, the small sensor can be a blessing.
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ztpX3AO1UtU



This is not new at all. People have discussed similar topics for years. For example, this article from 2010 which compares the Canon Powershot G11 to DSLRs:

https://www.photigy.com/do-you-really-need-an-expensive-dslr-camera-point-and-shoot-vs-professional-dslr/

"There is no arguing that a good camera is a must-have for a professional photographer. All DSLR’s are much faster and most of them are more convenient to work with than point-and-shoot cameras. However, do you really need a new, expensive DSLR to learn how to shoot, and to build your portfolio? I think not."


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## dak723 (Mar 1, 2017)

goldenhusky said:


> I guess there are people from all parts of the world here in this forum. Aren't 4k TVs predominant in most places on the earth with the exception of some markets in Asia and Africa? I saw a stat that said in 2016 alone there were more than 48 million 4K TVs sold across the globe. I could not get the break up by market though. So I guess there are not enough 4K displays is a lame argument at this point. Anyone who have numbers broken by markets please let me know.



Figures I was able to find (from mid-2016) projected that by the end of 2016 4K TVs would be in approx. 15% of US households. They project that by the end of 2019, 4K TVs will be in 50% of US households. So, while 4K TV sales are actually higher than projected a couple years ago, it will still be another couple years until 4K TVs are predominant.


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## Ozarker (Mar 1, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> jeffa4444 said:
> 
> 
> > Why did DPreview not ask questions about FF and in particular the 6D MKII
> ...



The view of the world is a strange one up there,
When floating around on so much hot air.

Do you really think that Canon could care,
what AvTvM has on mind to share?

Still he continues to muss his hair,
to shimmy and shake for mirrorless wares.

He twists and writhes and becomes contorted,
but pay him no mind... his own is unsorted.


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## goldenhusky (Mar 1, 2017)

Thank you. 


dak723 said:


> goldenhusky said:
> 
> 
> > I guess there are people from all parts of the world here in this forum. Aren't 4k TVs predominant in most places on the earth with the exception of some markets in Asia and Africa? I saw a stat that said in 2016 alone there were more than 48 million 4K TVs sold across the globe. I could not get the break up by market though. So I guess there are not enough 4K displays is a lame argument at this point. Anyone who have numbers broken by markets please let me know.
> ...


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## Ozarker (Mar 1, 2017)

goldenhusky said:


> > "We obviously have to look at the technical feasibility of it, cost-wise, as well as [the challenge of power consumption]. Those factors will tell us how we will introduce 4K technologies going forward.
> 
> 
> That is the most ignorant answer anyone can expect from an executive of top photography equipment designer and manufaccturer in the world and the first company to implement 4k video shooting in a DSLR form (1DC) and especailly after 4 of their competitors (I know, I know, per canon and some people here there is no competition for the "Industry leader") offering 4K video capability in low cost consumer model cameras for a few years now.
> ...



There are about 7,000,000,000 (That's 7 b, b, b, BILLION) people on the Earth. 48 million 4k televisions sold globally last year isn't significant.

If the cable company isn't broadcasting 4K, it doesn't matter anyway.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 1, 2017)

CanonFanBoy said:


> There are about 7,000,000,000 (That's 7 b, b, b, BILLION) people on the Earth. 48 million 4k televisions sold globally last year isn't significant.
> 
> If the cable company isn't broadcasting 4K, it doesn't matter anyway.



True, but when I go into Costco, more and more of the low priced TV sets are 4k, down into the under $500 level now. They may not be wonderful, but they claim 4K.

I've been looking at the LG OLED sets, they start at about $2,000 in our local stores. The reviews rate them highly, but I likely could not tell you which was which if you put $2,000 sets from Samsung and LG in front of me.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 1, 2017)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > There are about 7,000,000,000 (That's 7 b, b, b, BILLION) people on the Earth. 48 million 4k televisions sold globally last year isn't significant.
> ...


The other issue is editing a high quality 4K file and playing it on a computer. I'm not sure how I would manage to play a 4K video on a 4K TV set, I would need some really large and fast media I'd think. My NAS struggles to play MP4 HD to my TV set via the network, I have to connect it directly via hdmi.

I have a tough time believing that many of those 48 million owners are creating 4K home videos to watch. Maybe 0.001%


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## AvTvM (Mar 1, 2017)

one of many questiln i would ask those canon execs would be:
"why is EPS M5 sensor performance behind 80D sensor? as measured by DXO ... and M5 being 2 years newer.. ???"

a simple, fact-based straightforward question. i would not care whether or not this would be considered "disrespectful" or not in japanese culture. and even if there was no (real) answer and explanation provided, those guys should be treated to real interviews and real questions - from a critical journalistic perspective - as often as possible. they deserve it!


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## AvTvM (Mar 1, 2017)

CanonFanBoy said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > jeffa4444 said:
> ...



reported to moderator. one of many totally off topic personal attacks. incessant cyber-bullying and mobbing. hope you get banned for some time, @canonfanboy.'


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## ExodistPhotography (Mar 1, 2017)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> .....
> 
> I've been looking at the LG OLED sets, they start at about $2,000 in our local stores. The reviews rate them highly, but I likely could not tell you which was which if you put $2,000 sets from Samsung and LG in front of me.



I was looking at one of those LG OLED sets with the super thin bezel at 55 inches this week also.. Super nice. 


I may not agree with Canon's stance on 4k in their DSLRs. But I can not understand why they do not at least make the 1080p video sharper. I am not a Sony fan boy at all, matter of fact I dislike their cameras as whole. But Sony down samples 6k to 4k video to improve sharpness and over all look of their video. Why can canon not do something like 3k to 2k (1080p) to improve the video quality. Even on my 80D 1080p just does not look as good as it should. IMHO.. I may be to picky.. IDK..


EDIT: Matter of fact if you use the video time-lapse option. The image quality that comes from it even though its 1080p is amazing..


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## Valvebounce (Mar 1, 2017)

Hi AvTvM. 
So you now have your single share in Canon and booked a place and a question at their next board meeting? 
No point waiting for someone else! DIY. 

Cheers, Graham. 



AvTvM said:


> jeffa4444 said:
> 
> 
> > Why did DPreview not ask questions about FF and in particular the 6D MKII
> ...


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## Mikehit (Mar 1, 2017)

goldenhusky said:


> > "We obviously have to look at the technical feasibility of it, cost-wise, as well as [the challenge of power consumption]. Those factors will tell us how we will introduce 4K technologies going forward.
> 
> 
> That is the most ignorant answer anyone can expect from an executive of top photography equipment designer and manufaccturer in the world and the first company to implement 4k video shooting in a DSLR form (1DC) and especailly after 4 of their competitors (I know, I know, per canon and some people here there is no competition for the "Industry leader") offering 4K video capability in low cost consumer model cameras for a few years now.
> ...


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## Sharlin (Mar 1, 2017)

ExodistPhotography said:


> But I can not understand why they do not at least make the 1080p video sharper. I am not a Sony fan boy at all, matter of fact I dislike their cameras as whole. But Sony down samples 6k to 4k video to improve sharpness and over all look of their video. Why can canon not do something like 3k to 2k (1080p) to improve the video quality. Even on my 80D 1080p just does not look as good as it should. IMHO.. I may be to picky.. IDK..
> 
> EDIT: Matter of fact if you use the video time-lapse option. The image quality that comes from it even though its 1080p is amazing..



In timelapse mode they have all the time in the world to do full sensor readout and proper downsampling from 6000x4000. But when you're trying to flush the sensor 60 times per second, push that data to the processor and encode in real time the constraints are a bit tighter. Not sure whether it's thermal budget or bandwidth that's the bottleneck, but it's evidently not just about turning a sharpness knob somewhere.


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## ExodistPhotography (Mar 1, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> .......
> In timelapse mode they have all the time in the world to do full sensor readout and proper downsampling from 6000x4000. But when you're trying to flush the sensor 60 times per second, push that data to the processor and encode in real time the constraints are a bit tighter. *Not sure whether it's thermal budget or bandwidth that's the bottleneck*, but it's evidently not just about turning a sharpness knob somewhere.



Correct, but yea "if" there is no bottle neck or thermal issues. Then I can not see why they can't or will not. The improved video could make many canon owners care a little less about 4k at least for the next few years.
It could be band width. Even on the 80D you can only do 1080 60p in IPB mode. ALL-I does not have the 60p option.


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## LDS (Mar 1, 2017)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> True, but when I go into Costco, more and more of the low priced TV sets are 4k, down into the under $500 level
> now. They may not be wonderful, but they claim 4K.



Many cheaper "4K" TV sets on sale are actually "UHD" (3840 x 2160 and not the full 4096 x 2160). But playing the video is the simplest part. A 4K video workflow is still not cheap - besides the monitor people should check the storage required for high-quality video files, and the processing power required to edit them. Then there's the issue to stream them if not stored locally.

Sky here just started to offer "HD" contents for its "on demand" service (aka streaming), and sometimes the connection speed is not enough to cope - widespread fiber coverage won't be available until 2020 - despite this being a wealthy area, the large number of detached houses makes deploying fiber expensive for the telcos - so they wait for government subsidies. Sure, people are buying "4K" TVs because the prices are low enough, but it will take some time to exploit them fully. Just like it happened with true HD contents.


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 1, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> nothing but the usual Canon exec blather ... a total waste of time interviewing those *Racial slur removed by Mod*





AvTvM said:


> reported to moderator. one of many totally off topic personal attacks. incessant cyber-bullying and mobbing. hope you get banned for some time, @canonfanboy.'



Let me get this straight... You insult an entire ethnic group with a racial slur, then someone writes a humorous little poem about you, and you cry 'cyber bullying'?!? If anyone deserves a ban, it's you – for your hatred and bigotry. If I ever posted something like that (not that I ever would), I'd delete my account from shame...but here you are, complaining about how you feel 'personally attacked' after you attack an entire race. You deserve whatever you get here for your racial insensitivity. With no apologies, you're a pathetic ass and despicable human being.


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## AvTvM (Mar 1, 2017)

Neuro, reported as well, incessant attacks at me personally. Always off-topic. Cyber bully.


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## Orangutan (Mar 1, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> Neuro, reported as well, incessant attacks at me personally. Always off-topic. Cyber bully.



Neuro is often more caustic and snarky than I think is useful, but I've never seen ad hominem attacks from him. Perhaps you could link to some examples to demonstrate.


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## slclick (Mar 1, 2017)

Orangutan said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > Neuro, reported as well, incessant attacks at me personally. Always off-topic. Cyber bully.
> ...



Perhaps we could have an entire section just for these he said/she said things, kind of like the proposed professional Cycling league where doping is allowed.

Just kidding but I am just astounded at the pot calling the kettle black issue here. Wow. And..... after that racial slur towards folks of Japanese descent. Wow. I wish we could be civil. But humans basically suck.


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## jeffa4444 (Mar 1, 2017)

Ryan P said:


> njene said:
> 
> 
> > eguzowski said:
> ...


With all due respects this is a nonsense comparison, you could equally use an iPhone 5 and the iPhone 7+ and at the resolution shown on YouTube make them look identical. 
The iPhone is NOT comparable to the Red Weapon 6K and nor is it as flexible. If you add the slightest of VFX it would fall apart, it certainly would not stack-up on a 4K monitor even showing as HD. In broadcast given the compression issues you would see the difference easily broadcasters stipulate minimum requirements for a reason. Sorry its the wrong example.


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## rrcphoto (Mar 1, 2017)

what the hell happened to this thread?


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## Diko (Mar 1, 2017)

*Canon executives shot with OLYMPUS *

I find that funny


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## Diko (Mar 1, 2017)

I think that CANON doesn't have the required CPU and CMOS to handle heat properly in consumer level. What do I mean by that? I think that consumers have to get an idiot-proof camera, where everything happens. We all know that heat is a major problem for Canon at the moment. Even from the manual of 5D4 it is obvious.


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## Ryan P (Mar 1, 2017)

jeffa4444 said:


> Ryan P said:
> 
> 
> > njene said:
> ...



I'm not sure how the resolution on YouTube is a factor, as the comparison video is in 4K. Granted YouTube video is heavily compressed, but YouTube viewership will soon eclipse U.S. TV viewership (https://www.macrumors.com/2017/02/28/youtube-1-billion-hours/) so YouTube is a reasonable target medium. This video https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nRt4Duf7GoI at 5K/60P on YouTube shows just how detailed YouTube can be.

The iPhone 7+ (when increasing the bitrate to 100Mbit with Filmic pro) is shockingly clear—even on a 4K monitor. Obviously, the files will not be very flexible (although log recording is coming), but it is a great option in circumstances where a large camera is not feasible.


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## rrcphoto (Mar 1, 2017)

Diko said:


> I think that CANON doesn't have the required CPU and CMOS to handle heat properly in consumer level. What do I mean by that? I think that consumers have to get an idiot-proof camera, where everything happens. We all know that heat is a major problem for Canon at the moment. Even from the manual of 5D4 it is obvious.



totally agree with that.

for the XC10, canon had to include fans and a vented case.

that would simply not be practical for a DSLR.


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## Ryan P (Mar 1, 2017)

Diko said:


> I think that CANON doesn't have the required CPU and CMOS to handle heat properly in consumer level. What do I mean by that? I think that consumers have to get an idiot-proof camera, where everything happens. We all know that heat is a major problem for Canon at the moment. Even from the manual of 5D4 it is obvious.



I agree, Canon actually mentioned heat as one of their biggest challenges with the C300 Mark II!


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## rrcphoto (Mar 1, 2017)

dak723 said:


> goldenhusky said:
> 
> 
> > I guess there are people from all parts of the world here in this forum. Aren't 4k TVs predominant in most places on the earth with the exception of some markets in Asia and Africa? I saw a stat that said in 2016 alone there were more than 48 million 4K TVs sold across the globe. I could not get the break up by market though. So I guess there are not enough 4K displays is a lame argument at this point. Anyone who have numbers broken by markets please let me know.
> ...



even though 4k tv's are pretty cheap, 1080p smart tv's are even cheaper (half the price) and for most people are perfectly fine.

I airbnb to south and central america alot. I have never seen a 4k tv in any place, hotel,etc. I still see listings with old CRT tube tv's. Frequently.

then you have youtube,etc .. yes, 4k is there, but what are the devices it's running on? most are 720 or 1080p. smartphones and tablets,etc.

there was alot of talk that moving people up to 4K was a dud for the tv suppliers, and that 4K may be skipped all together. There may be some truth in that.

also to add .. anywhere south of here, it's remarkable to see a tv screen greater than 32"


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 1, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> Diko said:
> 
> 
> > I think that CANON doesn't have the required CPU and CMOS to handle heat properly in consumer level. What do I mean by that? I think that consumers have to get an idiot-proof camera, where everything happens. We all know that heat is a *major problem for Canon* at the moment. Even from the manual of 5D4 it is obvious.
> ...



@Diko, not just Canon.

They could have taken Sony's a7 approach and just let the camera overheat and shut down... Or the Nikon D5 approach and limited 4K recording time to 3 min clips.


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## Mikehit (Mar 1, 2017)

One thing that Canon seem to favour is deciding on behalf of the client what quality the client will accept. The first example I cam across was putting a Kenko 1.4 extender on my 70-300 f5.6 and finding that AF was hesitant at best and hunted interminably at worst. Canon took the view that the AF is either reliable or it is not so their tcs have software that blocks AF if it detects and effective f8 or greater - whether you prefer to have the option is irrelevant to Canon, Canon decided it wasn't good enough to be reliable so they blocked it.
That seems to a consistent factor in their design in that they would rather not incorporate a function than put it in and risk getting get poor comments. Sometimes they may well take this approach too far and I suspect that (and I say 'suspect' because I don't shoot video so a relying on internet hearsay) be 4K and overheating in the Sony and my guess is Canon would rather limit the film time or install a more basic video functionality than put one out that is unreliable. 
Whether you agree Canon have put enough effort into designing the video (or certain other functions) is a different issue - my point is that they will not install what is for them a half-baked functionality merely to satisfy the specification-hungry technofreaks.


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 1, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> One thing that Canon seem to favour is deciding on behalf of the client what quality the client will accept. The first example I cam across was putting a Kenko 1.4 extender on my 70-300 f5.6 and finding that AF was hesitant at best and hunted interminably at worst. Canon took the view that the AF is either reliable or it is not so their tcs have software that blocks AF if it detects and effective f8 or greater - whether you prefer to have the option is irrelevant to Canon, Canon decided it wasn't good enough to be reliable so they blocked it.



Totally agree. Another example is f/8 AF on the 1D X. Previous 1-series bodies had it, but the completely re-designed AF sensor in 1D X did not...at launch. There was a clamor from users that wanted the feature, and it was added via firmware. Since it's really a hardware function, it was there all along in the 1D X, but Canon likely hadn't thoroughly tested it for acceptable quality. They did so, then added the feature.


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## rrcphoto (Mar 1, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Diko said:
> ...



except that's bad engineering, electronics MTBF decreases by half every 10C of ambient temperature.


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## AvTvM (Mar 1, 2017)

apologists, apologists, fan boys. Sony can. Canon can not. Fuji can. Canon can not. CEO? 81 years old. LOL. how innovative.


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 1, 2017)

delusional, delusional, bigot. Sony hasn't. Canon is. Fuji can't. Canon is. CEO? Experienced. ¥¥¥. how successful.


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## AvTvM (Mar 1, 2017)

why bigot? I am used to you delusional shit. but now bigot too ... righteous Neuro? ;D


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## Random Orbits (Mar 1, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



Well, I guess it's good that Sony comes out with replacement models every 1-2 years : ;D


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## AvTvM (Mar 1, 2017)

in real life not much of an issue. Friends of mine have A7 1st series since they came out, no probs. Still work and capture pictures. Anecdotal of course. But first hand. 

heat is no issue as long as you don't capture looooong booooring videos with stills cameras.


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## privatebydesign (Mar 1, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> why bigot? I am used to you delusional S___. but now bigot too ... righteous Neuro? ;D



Calling people from Japan "-aps" is the very definition of bigot.


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 1, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> why bigot? I am used to you delusional S___. but now bigot too ... righteous Neuro? ;D



*bigot* \ˈbi-gət\ _noun_
A person who is obstinately or intolerantly devoted to his or her own opinions and prejudices; especially : one who regards or treats the members of a group (as a racial or ethnic group) with hatred and intolerance

It may more technically correct, based on your earlier post in this thread, to state that you are a:

*racist* ˈrāsəst/ _noun_
A person who shows or feels discrimination or prejudice against people of other races, or who believes that a particular race is superior to another.

But since racism and bigotry go hand-in-hand, either term is likely applicable...and either way, those behaviors and attitudes make you an utterly reprehensible, deplorable, pathetic excuse for a human being.


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## dak723 (Mar 1, 2017)

privatebydesign said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > why bigot? I am used to you delusional S___. but now bigot too ... righteous Neuro? ;D
> ...



Not to mention the insinuation that a person who is 81 can not be innovative or is unable to be an effective CEO.


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## dak723 (Mar 1, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> Whether you agree Canon have put enough effort into designing the video (or certain other functions) is a different issue - my point is that they will not install what is for them a half-baked functionality merely to satisfy the specification-hungry technofreaks.



I agree completely. And Canon should be commended for this rather than ridiculed and destroyed by the critics who love specs. When Sony came out with a high MP A7R, most reviewers commented on how you needed a tripod for the higher MP count to be noticeable. Without a tripod, you essentially were getting the detail and resolution of a 24 MP camera. Canon, on the other hand, didn't come out with their high MP models until they were able to incorporate a firmer tripod mount and various other anti-shake improvements. So, according to the spec lovers and Canon bashers, they were way behind Sony. But for photographers who actually wanted USABLE higher MPs, waiting for a company to get it right rather than just pushing out a less than ideal spec was probably quite worth the wait. I'm sure the same thing is happening with 4K. Plus, just because one company has a feature, that doesn't mean every other company can institute it equally. There are patents. Sometimes a company can not make something work because they need to come up with another technology or solution.

I've said it before and I'll say it again having owned Canon, Olympus and Sony cameras. I'd rather have a camera that is tried and true and reliable rather than one that is all about innovations that may not be ready yet.


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## AvTvM (Mar 2, 2017)

dak723 said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



yes. I do hold that belief. strongly.


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## IglooEater (Mar 2, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> yes. I do hold that belief. strongly.



LOL

Btw, To work one's way out of a hole, it's commonly considered a good idea to start by stopping digging.


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## IglooEater (Mar 2, 2017)

dak723 said:


> When Sony came out with a high MP A7R, most reviewers commented on how you needed a tripod for the higher MP count to be noticeable. Without a tripod, you essentially were getting the detail and resolution of a 24 MP camera. Canon, on the other hand, didn't come out with their high MP models until they were able to incorporate a firmer tripod mount and various other anti-shake improvements.



I agree with where your conclusion, just not your argument ...
Putting the Sony on a tripod works just as well as for the Canon. A loss of resolution would be seen in the Canon just as much as the Sony given similar hand-held conditions. Arguably, the main reason the 5Ds even needed a reinforced mount was the mirrorshock, so Sony is not to be criticized for not incorporating a feature that would not have been helpful for their device.

However I do agree that Canon has a nack for making an entire device that is incredibly well thought through in which all the features come together seamlessly.


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## goldenhusky (Mar 2, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> goldenhusky said:
> 
> 
> > > "We obviously have to look at the technical feasibility of it, cost-wise, as well as [the challenge of power consumption]. Those factors will tell us how we will introduce 4K technologies going forward.
> ...


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## goldenhusky (Mar 2, 2017)

OLED TV is great I own LG 65EF9500 and love it. I agree with you at least to my eyes there is not much difference between high end Samsung's SUHD range (I own 55JS8500 as well. 2015 line I believe) and LG OLED. I am sure there is difference, I am talking about the part how much my eyes can differentiate. If at all you are going the LG route a word of caution, is their quality control is worst than Sony. There were some banding issues in so many TVs of the same model I got. People complained about it a lot on few AV forums. So if possible buy it locally or from a reputable dealer just in case if there are any issues you can return it without losing lot of money.



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > There are about 7,000,000,000 (That's 7 b, b, b, BILLION) people on the Earth. 48 million 4k televisions sold globally last year isn't significant.
> ...


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## goldenhusky (Mar 2, 2017)

I use to have that impression until I saw Dual Pixel RAW was advertised as a feature in 5D4. Most of us know how that turned out ;D



Mikehit said:


> One thing that Canon seem to favour is deciding on behalf of the client what quality the client will accept. The first example I cam across was putting a Kenko 1.4 extender on my 70-300 f5.6 and finding that AF was hesitant at best and hunted interminably at worst. Canon took the view that the AF is either reliable or it is not so their tcs have software that blocks AF if it detects and effective f8 or greater - whether you prefer to have the option is irrelevant to Canon, Canon decided it wasn't good enough to be reliable so they blocked it.
> That seems to a consistent factor in their design in that they would rather not incorporate a function than put it in and risk getting get poor comments. Sometimes they may well take this approach too far and I suspect that (and I say 'suspect' because I don't shoot video so a relying on internet hearsay) be 4K and overheating in the Sony and my guess is Canon would rather limit the film time or install a more basic video functionality than put one out that is unreliable.
> Whether you agree Canon have put enough effort into designing the video (or certain other functions) is a different issue - my point is that they will not install what is for them a half-baked functionality merely to satisfy the specification-hungry technofreaks.


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 2, 2017)

dak723 said:


> Not to mention the insinuation that a person who is 81 can not be innovative or is unable to be an effective CEO.



Someone should tell 86 year old Warren Buffett that he's an ineffective CEO. :


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## Ozarker (Mar 2, 2017)

IglooEater said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > yes. I do hold that belief. strongly.
> ...



He doesn't know how to stop digging. He just goes deeper, and deeper still. Darkness is his happy place. Same with all bigoted, racist, trolls. AvTvM has no concept of remorse. His high public opinion of himself masks his self loathing.

If Plato's "Allegory of the Cave" ... well, let's just say AvTvM is chained up in it.


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## douglaurent (Mar 2, 2017)

"it is important to keep in mind that we don’t want to harm the original inherent concept of these products. 4K should compliment, rather than hinder."

I am so glad Canon is taking care of us. All those cameras except the 5D4 and 1DX2 would be completely unusable and way to confusing, if one video menu tab would give a 4k option alongside the 1080p option.


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## rrcphoto (Mar 2, 2017)

douglaurent said:


> "it is important to keep in mind that we don’t want to harm the original inherent concept of these products. 4K should compliment, rather than hinder."
> 
> I am so glad Canon is taking care of us. All those cameras except the 5D4 and 1DX2 would be completely unusable and way to confusing, if one video menu tab would give a 4k option alongside the 1080p option.



here ya go.


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## Mikehit (Mar 2, 2017)

goldenhusky said:


> I use to have that impression until I saw Dual Pixel RAW was advertised as a feature in 5D4. Most of us know how that turned out ;D



As I understand it, dual pixel was a focusing mechanism first and foremost. They then realised they could use the technology to tweak focusing in post-processing in the same manner as Lytro. To be fair, this is not really a camera functionality (which merely records the data) as a software capability (which uses the data). 
At the time I thought Canon underplayed it and IMO it was the techno-nerds who got overly excited and their hullabaloo was never going to be realised in practice.


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## AvTvM (Mar 2, 2017)

IglooEater said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > yes. I do hold that belief. strongly.
> ...



i dont give a shit.


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## ExodistPhotography (Mar 2, 2017)

LDS said:


> ....... But playing the video is the simplest part. A 4K video workflow is still not cheap - besides the monitor people should check the storage required for high-quality video files, and the processing power required to edit them. Then there's the issue to stream them if not stored locally.



Forget streaming. I am going to go out on a limb here and say 99% of the 4k content that would be broadcast would almost never come from a DSLR anyway.. Most of the content recorded on DSLR in 4k would come from indie cinematographers, wedding, event, corporate or youtube-type video creators. Which would be put on DVD for sharing or uploaded to streaming solution like Youtube or Vimeo. I just do not see the next season of Vikings or the next Avengers movie being filmed on a 5D or even a 1D anyway.. But even that said, you can always down sample a video on the fly for streaming. You can never correctly up sample and hold the proper resolution..

Now as far as hardware. Almost any machine built in the past 5 years can render 4k video. It does not take a hugely priced machine to edit it unless your trying to use the most horrid free or cheap software you can find. Even my 2012 i7 Mac Mini with 8GB RAM and only the iGPU HD4000 can render it in Final Cut without driving you mad. Even Premier Pro is on a entry level media PC can do 4k.. All machines under $1000 dollars.. Also storage is cheap these days and plentiful. 

IMHO anyway.. - Joe


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## Orangutan (Mar 2, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



You should care -- you've lost any credibility you had left.


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 2, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



Of course you don't. Bigots and racists are typically self-centered, insensitive assholes who don't care about others' thoughts or feelings.


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## IglooEater (Mar 2, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > IglooEater said:
> ...



That's a little caustic don't you think? I personally prefer just sip my coffee and laugh when I see the likes of these. If they are to be helped, I doubt an online forum is an effective medium.


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## IglooEater (Mar 2, 2017)

Orangutan said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > IglooEater said:
> ...



That happened a long time ago methinks.


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## IglooEater (Mar 2, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...


It's okay, we knew that already


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 2, 2017)

IglooEater said:


> That's a little caustic don't you think? I personally prefer just sip my coffee and laugh when I see the likes of these. If they are to be helped, I doubt an online forum is an effective medium.



In fact, I don't think so at all (or else I wouldn't have posted it). To paraphrase an Edmund Burke quotation in the context of your response, "_The only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing sip coffee and laugh when they witness racism and bigotry in their midst._"


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## slclick (Mar 2, 2017)

IglooEater said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



Oh helping would be great but I think the main objective is zero tolerance. Helping is a nice and fanciful dream....


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## Ozarker (Mar 2, 2017)

slclick said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Yup. When a man shows no remorse and finds it impossible to admit he's wrong and apologize he is beyond help. Especially when there are probably Japanese members here.

Instead, this guy doubles down.


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## slclick (Mar 2, 2017)

But let's get back to potential FF ML in the future........


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## IglooEater (Mar 2, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > That's a little caustic don't you think? I personally prefer just sip my coffee and laugh when I see the likes of these. If they are to be helped, I doubt an online forum is an effective medium.
> ...



Fair enough. The issues we've had on this thread are more serious than normal. I didnt mean to say I laugh at that, but at the ignorance and denial that certain members of this forum typically keep up.


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## IglooEater (Mar 2, 2017)

slclick said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > That's a little caustic don't you think? I personally prefer just sip my coffee and laugh when I see the likes of these. If they are to be helped, I doubt an online forum is an effective medium.
> ...



Point taken. Agreed, and thanks.


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## LDS (Mar 3, 2017)

ExodistPhotography said:


> Forget streaming. I am going to go out on a limb here and say 99% of the 4k content that would be broadcast would almost never come from a DSLR anyway.. Most of the content recorded on DSLR in 4k would come from indie cinematographers, wedding, event, corporate or youtube-type video creators. Which would be put on DVD for sharing or uploaded to streaming solution like Youtube or Vimeo.



I guess most young couples would have an hard time to play DVDs (or better, Blue-Ray) - they disappeared from most PCs and new household as well. Streaming 4K video still requires bandwidth - which may not be available everywhere.

While some big screen movies had scenes shoot with Canon DSLRs, it looks clear to me that Canon thinks if your main aim is to shoot video, you should do with one of its video cameras.



ExodistPhotography said:


> Now as far as hardware. Almost any machine built in the past 5 years can render 4k video. days and plentiful.



Playing is a bit different than editing - and also depends in what format you shoot and which one you deliver.


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