# 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! Final Update 05/09/12



## Sycotek (Jul 5, 2012)

*------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Update 05/09/12
*------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*

Finally got an answer for this guys: *It's a feature...*

CPS London via CPS Australia:
_
"On the first issue of AF tracking in low light. Everything you found was correct and the camera needs to be dropped back to 10fps to AF in the lowest light conditions. At 10fps the camera can focus fast and effectively @ -2 Ev Level but at 12fps the Ev Level is changed to -0.5 Ev. This is because of the light reduction when the mirror moves at that speed. The camera does this automatically. This is what you were experiencing under the conditions of the cat walk. This is comparable to all professional 35mm products out there on the market"_

On a side note: does the picture below with the 10 and 12 fps comparison even remotely look like 0ev let alone -2EV ?

Anyway - since I hadn't heard from Canon, chasing it up every day I actually switched over to a D4 setup after a mishap with the 1DX and AF assist (bug 2) at a reception - and haven't been happier - I don't have these limitation anymore. It's less a lottery and more consistent frame to frame shots, low light is substantially better AF and i can actually see what i am focusing on - finally.

Anyways hopefully this will help the PJ's understand what is happening.

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Update 21/08
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Still no word from Canon regarding the findings. However they have replaced the my body - I now have a body starting with SN 05 rather then 04.

So changing nothing but FPS L to 10 FPS I ran a very simple test:







So 2nd unit, brand spanking new and exhibits same issue.

If this body doesn't have a bug with the 70-200 f2.8 II/600EX combo, I'll put up with not being able to use 12fps and hope they fix it via firmware update.

Although a month with no reply is just bad form from Canon.


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Update 31/07
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Replicated issue with a brand new 1DX at the store I bought mine from. It's not isolated as I had hoped - staff can't believe it either.

Waiting on canon now

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Update 29/07
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Issue has been isolated to anything more then 10 fps when shooting in low light -* Initial target lock is hindered and at times target subject can not be locked on (lens racks to infinity and stops) - af servo tracking is reduced by 80% in some instances the af tracking stops completely.*

And by low light I mean - my testing area is a 60w equivalent cfw room light, 4mx4m room and my girlfriends face (porcelain skin dark eyebrows and dark eyes plenty of contrast).* In direct comparison my trusty 7D locks on and tracks without issues.*

Setting the servo between 3 and 10 fps fixes the issue on the 1DX

Many thanks to justaphotographer for isolating this issue.

Have reported to Canon - waiting to see a resolution - for now set fps to 10 or less.



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Update 27/07:
*------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
OK so speaking with Canon We have isolated it down to an AF function/modification. It doesn't seem to be a custom function change.

I tend to use case 1 and case 4 and modify case 4 (all sliders moved to the very left) - now I can't seem to figure out what combination of changes make the AF balls up. I had everything set as I like it last night but the second i changed over rotation to computer only (as i tend to shoot portrait mode) the af started to play up. Undoing the rotation change did not fix the issue. Had to reset to a working backup.

If I leave the af setting as stock default everything works properly.

And as it has always been this only shows up in low light Servo.

If anyone is interested I can load a broken config they can play around with and see if they can work it out. 

It's a little frustrating as I don't know what I am changing that's causing the AF to bug out. As proved to me when I was shooting with canon in and underground car park the 1DX could lock onto a black car moving at 20+ km/hr in next to no light and get a ridiculously sharp image.

Canon is working on it, as am I - keep keep this updated.


*------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*

*Ok so for all those not wanting to read everything here is the conclusion:

Sat with Canon Australia Pro Support this afternoon - which they came to my work after My work hours, sat down for a coffee, gave me a few tips and fixed my problem - I really could not ask for more support from any company! And remember they are from a completely different state then I!!!

Anyways after being schooled on some af config case tweaks we took the cameras into an underground carpark probably a good -1 to -2ev at least. 

They tested their camera no issue - passed it to me and it blew me way snap bang locked no issues. They grabbed mine and it went ass up - they couldn't believe it.

Went through all the settings and couldn't work out what it is. So we copied the working 1Dx's config on a memory card and loaded it on mine and it's like a brand new camera - it's like night vision tbh.

So yeah if you are having issues as per below - grab this config file: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/33440790/DXSave/WORRKSSS.CSD and load it.

Canon will get back to me as we are unsure if its something funky in the settings or setting screwed up something in servo logic. Either-way I will update this as soon as I am made aware.

Thank You Canon Australia for taking care of Me *

*------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
Not looking to bag out the DX - actually looking for help from other owners and or Photographers that can explain this phenomenon:

--

*Issue: Low light Ai Servo mis-focus/no-focus*
Full-size images here: https://dl.dropbox.com/u/33440790/weirdservo.zip (65MB)

--
1 body – 1DX
3 Lenses – ef50 f1.4, 24-105 F4 L, 70-200 f2.8 II
Shot in Jpeg – all options on (ALO, NR, Lens Correction etc…) and then all options off.
All handheld (no tripod av)
--

*I’ll preface this with*; on the night prior I was out shooting under moonlight – without any notable issues – with, of all lenses - the ef 50 f1.4 (which if you know and love the lens, you know it hunts focus in low light). With my short time with the 1DX , my impressions of the 1DX’s AF is that it snaps to focus on objects You cannot physically see and locks on with near-possessed speed.

Now last night I found this issue when trying to track my cousins head/face moving through the house. It wasn’t particularly dark 3 room lights registered iso 1600-3200 f2.8 can’t remember the shutter speed. She got sick of being target practise so I turned to my dog. The 1DX wouldn’t grab focus either.

By this I mean it racks the lens to infinity and stops or just stops AFTER it’s visibly passes focus. Not and MFD issue either – after a slight mini panic attack, I swapped over lenses and same issue, swapped to the prime and exact same issue. Thought it was the changes I made to case 4 so swapped it to a default case 1 – same issue. I haven’t played around with 1st and 2nd frame preference but I then swapped it to focus preference and still no change.

Intrigued from my experiences the night before I swapped it to [One Shot] and it focused and locked on with possessed speed once again. Swap back to [Ai Servo] and it racks to infinity/racks past.

--

So in the original room there were too many variables of people moving through the house changing the light so I setup a pretty average testing area:





This was [One shot] 24-105 at [email protected], 1/40, iso 25600 




This was [Ai Servo] – same settings. Just failed to focus.

--

Shot from the other side of the room:





This was [One shot] 24-105 at [email protected], 1/25, iso 25600




This was [Ai Servo] – same settings. Just failed to focus.

--

So then I thought let’s bring in 3 times more light (even with the f4/5.6 crosstypes more light can’t be a bad thing)




This was [One shot] EF 50 f1.4 at [email protected]/40, iso 3200 (bottom af point from memory)




This was [Ai Servo] – same settings. Just failed to focus. (iso 4000)

--

So finally I thought it was a contrast issue – so added more contrast:




This was [One shot] EF 50 f1.4 at f2 @1/40, iso 6400




This was [Ai Servo] – same settings. Just failed to focus

--

I thought the Servo using ITR then needed more light so turned off ITR and it had the same issue.

I’m out of ideas for explaining this one.

*Please note: I shot and tried all AF modes to acquire lock via [Ai Servo]. [One Shot] locked on with any AF mode selected.*


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## robin (Jul 6, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue*

What kind of priority setting do you use? No I don't have the dx, yet, but I had same with 1D Mark4 some time ago..


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## drjlo (Jul 6, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue*

Well, going by my 5D III AI Servo, I would say AF can be unpredictable, simply missing focus under certain circumstances, often in low light and depending on lens. Then again, at other times that seem "difficult," it has no problem focusing with AI Servo. 

As usual, if AF lock is crucial, I use One shot. With 1DX price point, I would have thought it would be much better than 5D III though.


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## Sycotek (Jul 9, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue*



drjlo said:


> Well, going by my 5D III AI Servo, I would say AF can be unpredictable, simply missing focus under certain circumstances, often in low light and depending on lens. Then again, at other times that seem "difficult," it has no problem focusing with AI Servo.
> 
> As usual, if AF lock is crucial, I use One shot. With 1DX price point, I would have thought it would be much better than 5D III though.



This was just AV mode nothing special.

I'm still waiting on canon's response. I did further testing and seems to crap out on a certain grey point (from my testing) blue or red or white target in the same low light and there was next to no issues

Single shot does lock down to the rated -2ev (tested with a light meter) didn't think at the time to test where the servo craps out at.


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## Sycotek (Jul 9, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue*

*Further testing:*

I don’t think the 100K rgb sensor is quite as refined as it should be.

I tested this theory over lunch with a red, blue, brown, grey dark box (so to speak) – focused on the canon black cap using the canon logo as target:





[One Shot] - 1/50 f4 at 105mm iso 25k – found that it is 2-4x faster on [one shot] with iTR on and locked on without issues – I removed iTR just to make sure it wasn’t interfering.





[Ai Servo] - 1/50 f4 at 105mm iso 25k - fails to lock and racks the lens to infinity.





[Ai Servo] 1/80 f4 at 105mm iso 25k - I replaced the black cap with a silver eclipse mint container and it locked on instantly with [One Shot] and [Ai Servo] it also had no issues locking onto red, blue and white either.

---

I was having issues one shot - locking on grey objects at -2ev (which is sort of expected) adding in a white and red object made it easier but it still wasn't a cakewalk do to the af points not lighting up and not being able to see where the af point was in correlation to the target. I had to use a tripod and a torch to make sure I had the af point on the object... otherwise i had to keep moving the af point back and forth just to be able to see where the point was...


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 9, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue*



Sycotek said:


> *Further testing:*
> 
> I don’t think the 100K rgb sensor is quite as refined as it should be.
> 
> ...



I'd exchange the camera myself. There are many testers and users who haven't reported a issue like this. As for the unlighted AF points, that is a big issue, part of the reason I returned my 5D MK III and bought a 1D MK IV. 
BTW You can light up the points by pressing the AF point selection button, but its not a elegant work around. You certainly do not need a torch.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 9, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue*

Let us know what Canon says. 

Oddly, in the 6 use cases designed to make setting up the AI Servo options, 'still life' isn't one of them. Just wondering if that's the best test scenario for an AI Servo issue?


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## Sycotek (Jul 9, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue*



neuroanatomist said:


> Let us know what Canon says.
> 
> Oddly, in the 6 use cases designed to make setting up the AI Servo options, 'still life' isn't one of them. Just wondering if that's the best test scenario for an AI Servo issue?



I actually only started to look into this as i couldn't lock onto my cousins head moving around the house... definitely wasn't still - i just needed a controlled environment for testing however so this the above is what I came up with.

Regarding the need for a torch - i found when i lit up all the af points i then couldn't see the target lol  but that af selector light up all points is something I have done since my 7D  Agreed not elegant but it works.


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## AlbertaCanonShooter (Jul 17, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue*

I've been having focus issues with the 1D X in both AI Servo and one shot. 

I also had similar experiences in full daylight as the OP with the camera refusing to focus at all. In my case, I was using a 70-200 2.8IS II L. A few times when I would point the camera to an object at infinity. The focus would rack to the nearest distance and stop. This was in sing;e shot AF. It wouldn't hunt - it would just go totally out of focus. Releasing and pressing AF wouldn't do anything - the camera would not try to focus again. The only ay I could get it to acquire focus was to manually focus the lens (to get it at least somewhat sharp), then the AF would begin working again.

Below is one example of the camera missing focus from a wedding I shot this past weekend. An assistant was holding a 600EX-RT behind the couple for backlighting. This was in one shot mode with single AF point and four expansion points. This is a screen grab from the file in DPP so the active (and helper) focus point can be seen. As you can see, there is lots of contrast for the main focus point, as well as good contrast under the four expansion points yet it totally missed.

Here's the OOF example from the wedding:


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 17, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue*

Although I'm having a problem with the 1D X not storing AFMA settings, AI Servo focusing in low light seems fine. ISO 4000 shot, screenshot of 50% view in DPP.


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## Sycotek (Jul 19, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue*



AlbertaCanonShooter said:


> I've been having focus issues with the 1D X in both AI Servo and one shot.
> 
> I also had similar experiences in full daylight as the OP with the camera refusing to focus at all. In my case, I was using a 70-200 2.8IS II L. A few times when I would point the camera to an object at infinity. The focus would rack to the nearest distance and stop. This was in sing;e shot AF. It wouldn't hunt - it would just go totally out of focus. Releasing and pressing AF wouldn't do anything - the camera would not try to focus again. The only ay I could get it to acquire focus was to manually focus the lens (to get it at least somewhat sharp), then the AF would begin working again.
> 
> ...



Ok so I am not the only one - I am meeting with canon Pro Services tomorrow as they want to test out my camera personally and for me to test out another unit.

---

Did a runway shoot last night:

Whilst the lighting condition were far from perfect it was enough to get 1/250 f4 iso 3200-5000 images through the camera. Case 1 this time – with tracking sensitivity ‘locked on’ to -2.

However… I could not use iTR all points on af tracking as it would fail to lock majority of the time, I have been trying my best to make use of this mode as in good light - it is excellent.

Ended up having to use my standard 4 point expansion method (by far the most accurate and predictable AF) which I lost one outfit due to the camera refusing to grab focus of the model – orange dress plenty of skin and black hair for contrast. I generally aim for the line between the collarbone and the start of the outfit for the camera to be able to grab something.

Wasn’t overly high profile shoot so impact to Me is limited, but not impressed with the outcome.

Pre-show I was aiming at people at the end of the runway which had a white wall, they were in darkish clothing, others were in grey and even some in wacky multi colours – white skin, dark hair – plenty of contrast and it wouldn’t lock in Servo, Single shot no issues :/

Not sure how we can emulate this on tomorrow with canon – but these are the conditions I was worried it would be failing in.


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## Sycotek (Jul 19, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue*



neuroanatomist said:


> Although I'm having a problem with the 1D X not storing AFMA settings, AI Servo focusing in low light seems fine. ISO 4000 shot, screenshot of 50% view in DPP.



Your sample has plenty of contrast  that wouldn't effect the af - I actually ran a second set of controlled issues for canon:

---

Configuration:

-Using the same scene as the original controlled data (with the toy from the first set) but adding another room light to make it easier on the camera. 2 lights this time, no-where near pushing the AF’s limits (I didn’t have a light meter on me so couldn’t confirm exact EV – but we know single shot stuffs at exactly -2ev and one shot AF here was nice and snappy)

-One Shot under all tests/af modes snapped to focus instantly – no re-racking, no hesitation.

-I had to set 1st frame AF release to equal priority (2nd frame is still on its default equal priority) as it wouldn’t fire due to not being able to get focus of the subject with 1st frame focus priority.
-I had my Auntie wear something blue/red/white – which would provide ample contrast (so we can’t blame it on being black/grey etc)

-This was shot under a custom CASE 4 with tracking sensitivity set to -2 – it was retested with standard CASE 1 with no difference in the results.

Testing Methodology:

-4 one shot images taken at set markers on the ground followed by a series of Ai Servo images, this was done for manual af point (one point), 4point af expansion and 12 point - zone af. I attempted this with 61 points but it would lock on the wall regardless of where I put the initial AF point marker in Ai Servo mode. The images below are taken from DPP with AF point on and info in the middle (information exposed from the Ai Servo shot). The comparison Ai Servo image was use where my Auntie crossed over near or on the single shot reference image – She was walking a moderate pace for the Ai Servo shots.

Quick Comparison:

First Frame, Manual AF Point (One Point)




-One Shot on the left, Ai Servo on the Right.
-1/100, f4, iso 25K

Mid Frame, Manual AF Point (One Point)




-One Shot on the left, Ai Servo on the Right.
-1/100, f4, iso 25K

End Frame, Manual AF Point (One Point)




-One Shot on the left, Ai Servo on the Right.
-1/80, f4, iso 25K

Example of what happens when you can’t lock onto the target on first frame – Manual AF Point (On Point)





So I moved on to AF Expansion – for this I targeted the t-shirt hoping it would have a chance with the 4 extra points to lock onto face and shoulders.

First Frame, 4 point AF expansion:




-One Shot on the left, Ai Servo on the Right.
-1/100, f4, iso 25K

Mid Frame, 4 point AF expansion:




-One Shot on the left, Ai Servo on the Right.
-1/80, f4, iso 25K

End Frame, 4 point AF expansion:




-One Shot on the left, Ai Servo on the Right.
-1/80, f4, iso 25K

Example of what happens when you can’t lock onto the target on first frame – 4pt AF Expansion





---

It's very obvious its a contrast issue, I just don't know how to go about fixing/circumventing it


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## Sycotek (Jul 19, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue*



AlbertaCanonShooter said:


> I've been having focus issues with the 1D X in both AI Servo and one shot.
> 
> I also had similar experiences in full daylight as the OP with the camera refusing to focus at all. In my case, I was using a 70-200 2.8IS II L. A few times when I would point the camera to an object at infinity. The focus would rack to the nearest distance and stop. This was in sing;e shot AF. It wouldn't hunt - it would just go totally out of focus. Releasing and pressing AF wouldn't do anything - the camera would not try to focus again. The only ay I could get it to acquire focus was to manually focus the lens (to get it at least somewhat sharp), then the AF would begin working again.
> 
> ...



What is your serial number start with (first 4 digits) we can possible compare or pm me the full one and ill send you mine


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## bdunbar79 (Jul 19, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue*

Wow, that's actually pretty terrible. You don't even see that with the 1D Mark IV; it locks on in very low contrast in AI Servo.


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## DarkG (Jul 19, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue*

hey guys.... thanks a lot posting these tests............ I am waiting for my 1DX but now I am a bit like


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## robin (Jul 19, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue*

Sorry to hear about these problems, but this does not seem to be usual. I have got 3 1DX yesterday and checked all three, and none has these issues. We did a lot of tests, because we are leaving for Olympia tomorrow, and you can guess we did not need any problems with new cameras there (bad enough that we got them "in the last minute"..


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## howhigh (Jul 19, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue*

Although I understand there are some differences between the 1DX and the 5D3 AF, I think it might be worth noting, that the 5D3 has the same issue (at least mine has. low light servo tracking = not possible (one shot works)).


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## Sycotek (Jul 20, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue*



howhigh said:


> Although I understand there are some differences between the 1DX and the 5D3 AF, I think it might be worth noting, that the 5D3 has the same issue (at least mine has. low light servo tracking = not possible (one shot works)).



Thank You for this input - I returned my 5D3's so I couldn't test myself - I was curious if it would effect them too.

Maybe it's just a *feature* I'll need to learn to live with.

Will keep you guys posted when I meet with canon this afternoon.


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## bbasiaga (Jul 20, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue*

Obviously not an expert here, but I wonder if there is some pre-act/PID type algorithm in the AI servo software where by its reading info from the AF sensor and trying to 'predict' the motion of the target before it moves the lens to the focus point. With no movement, it get no info, it makes no change....If there is just not enough light for it to accurrately calculate movement, the same outcome would occur as in these test cases where the target is not actually moving.

I have seen some behavior like this out of control loops in production facilities I have worked in. Most of the time the software can be tuned to stop the issue.

-Brian


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## Sycotek (Jul 20, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue*



bbasiaga said:


> Obviously not an expert here, but I wonder if there is some pre-act/PID type algorithm in the AI servo software where by its reading info from the AF sensor and trying to 'predict' the motion of the target before it moves the lens to the focus point. With no movement, it get no info, it makes no change....If there is just not enough light for it to accurately calculate movement, the same outcome would occur as in these test cases where the target is not actually moving.
> 
> I have seen some behavior like this out of control loops in production facilities I have worked in. Most of the time the software can be tuned to stop the issue.
> 
> -Brian



possible - however you need to assign a target for the cameras first af point priority. You need that to lock regardless or it doesn't know what you are pointing at what colour or face to register and track.

The camera failed to lock on for me on a runway/catwalk which has plenty of movement.

Furthermore the second set of test i put up were single shot vs moving target ai servo - in these instances the camera failed to lock on the target correctly and ended up with everything out of focus.

Agree'd it could be software/firmware fixed and hopefully thats all it is!


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## Sycotek (Jul 27, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Sort of - Fixed! UPDATE 27/07*

Updated main post


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## justaphotographer (Jul 28, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Sort of - Fixed! UPDATE 27/07*

Hi Sycotek,

I am having exactly the same problem. I mean EXACTLY the same problem. In low(ish) (not even really that low light actually) when in AF-SERVO mode the camera just goes to infinity and back and does not lock focus at all. In ONE-SHOT it locks on very very quickly. Back to AF-SERVO...AF craps out again. It is 100% repeatable. Below you wrote that if you leave the AF setting at stock default it works properly. Well not for me. After I made a backup of all my current settings I reset everything back to default (including the custom function setting). The camera was in "out of the box" state. Yet, the AF-SERVO in low(ish) light problem is still there. This tells me that it isn't a settings issue, but something else that is going on with the camera.

I tested this with every single one of my lenses and they all have exactly the same problem. ONE-SHOT nails focus, but AF-SERVO (go to infinity and back and never locks focus).

The troubling thing about this is that this is not even that low of a light setting. Clearly ONE-SHOT has no problem. Even my older 5D2 with center focus on AF-SERVO can lock on just fine. There is definitely something strange going on here. Please keep this thread updated as to what Canon says.



Sycotek said:


> *------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------*
> Update 27/07:
> 
> OK so speaking with Canon We have isolated it down to an AF function/modification. It doesn't seem to be a custom function change.
> ...


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## justaphotographer (Jul 28, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Sort of - Fixed! UPDATE 27/07*

I just now tested a 5D classic in AF-SERVO mode (center point) on the same object in the same light and was ABLE to track focus perfectly.

Again the 5D2 and 5D Classic on the same object in AF-SERVO mode can lock on no problem.


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## justaphotographer (Jul 28, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Sort of - Fixed! UPDATE 27/07*

One more update. I actually think this isn't a low light AF-SERVO problem, but rather a low contrast AF-SERVO problem. I just tested in bright light trying to focus using AF-SERVO on a low contrast object and this is what happened...

1Dx...fail
5D2...perfect tracking
5D Classic...perfect tracking

Remember this is in bright light. So my current conclusion is that the new 61 AF system in AF-SERVO mode cannot lock on to or track low contrast objects. This make sense, because the other day (in daylight no less) I was trying to track someone in AF-SERVO, but the 1Dx kept failing. I just tossed it up to the fact that it was a fluke, but now I think about it he had a solid black shirt with hardly any contrast.

If all cameras failed under these conditions we can just say well Phase Detection AF can't track low contrast objects and just live with it, but as I have tested on the 5D2 and 5D classic in AF-SERVO, it shows that those older cameras can track without a problem, the exact same objects that the 1Dx and 5D3 fails to track.


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## justaphotographer (Jul 28, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Sort of - Fixed! UPDATE 27/07*

Okay I've made a very helpful discovery on the 1Dx that could be a slight workaround until Canon fixes this problem. In an attempt to solve this problem I discovered something pretty interesting.

If you go to C.Fn3rive and then the Continuous Shooting Speed setting and change High Speed from 12 (default) to anything 10 or less you will get a boost in AI-SERVO tracking in low light. As soon as I bump that back up to 12fps the camera cannot track in low light very. Change back down to 10 or slower and tracking is definitely better. This is 100% repeatable.

Even at 10fps setting the tracking isn't nearly as good in low light as an older 5D2, but still better (without question) than when the camera is set to 12fps.

I am wondering if Canon traded off low light tracking to get that high rate of 12fps and that is why at 14fps the autofocus stops all together. Interesting.

In the meantime what I have done as a workaround is to set the Low Speed setting to 10fps and left the High Speed setting to 12fps. This way when I'm in good contrast/good light I can get the benefit of the full 12fps and when I am in low light I can just quickly switch the AF Drive mode to Low and get greatly increased tracking ability under that lighting condition.

Could you guys report this to Canon (I will when I get back from my 2 week assignment---I leave tomorrow so I don't have time) so that they can be aware of this in case they can adjust this in the next firmware?


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## justaphotographer (Jul 28, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Sort of - Fixed! UPDATE 27/07*

Okay last update for now. The settings change totally improves AI-SERVO tracking in low light, but it is still definitely not even close to as good as the 5D2 (center point) for low light/low contrast tracking.

Still though, there is definite improvement for low light AI-SERVO tracking by simply changing the max FPS from 12 to 10. I just hope Canon can tweak things so that it is as good as the 5D2 center point focus tracking in low light/contrast (yeah I know strange that I have to even write that sentence).

I hope this is fixable in firmware rather than it being a tradeoff for having 12fps shooting.


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## Sycotek (Jul 28, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Sort of - Fixed! UPDATE 27/07*

Hi justaphotographer,

I haven't had any issues using the reset config I got from canon - I have now reconfigured my own without touching the af settings and it worked fine last-night at another runway tracking black subjects at 1/250 f4 iso 10K <- this was not fun...)

I believe like you its a contrast issue. But the default configuration doesn't exhibit the same issues that I had with my tweaked config.

eg. single 60w equivalent cfl room light trying to track my gf face - the broken config wont lock on anything. The reset config locks on Her eye brows and eyes, under her nose and lips as if it was nothing.

The test with canon was well below -2ev (i could not see the other reps eyes yet the camera locked on as if it was nothing and focussed accurately) broken config just hunted - canon rep couldn't believe it.

---

As annoying as it is if you haven't tried it - i would recommend making a backup of your current config and send it to me, then testing out the config i got from canon - i'll pass your broken one to canon so they have a second point of reference.

I will also test out your finding tomorrow and get back you if i can replicate it


----------



## justaphotographer (Jul 28, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Sort of - Fixed! UPDATE 27/07*

Thank you so much for you reply Sycotek. I just sent you a private message.



Sycotek said:


> Hi justaphotographer,
> 
> I haven't had any issues using the reset config I got from canon - I have now reconfigured my own without touching the af settings and it worked fine last-night at another runway tracking black subjects at 1/250 f4 iso 10K <- this was not fun...)
> 
> ...


----------



## justaphotographer (Jul 28, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Sort of - Fixed! UPDATE 27/07*

Okay Sycotek,

I had a chance to load and play around with your "canon fixed" config version. It totally confirmed my finding actually. As soon as I loaded your fixed config I noticed that it put the camera into multi-shot L drive mode. It tracked wonderfully in low(ish) light. Do you know why? Because in the C.Fn3rive setting section, the multi-shot L drive mode puts the camera into 3 frames per second (fps). As soon as I changed to multi-shot H drive mode (which is set for 12 fps) you're fixed camera craps out again in AI-SERVO in low light/contrast. As soon as I go back to 3 fps (in multi-shot L drive mode) the camera performs much better in low light/contrast.

That is the only setting I changed on your fixed version and it totally affected the tracking ability (or a lack there of) of the camera in low light/contrast. This confirms my finding. All that the fix version is doing is putting your camera into 3 frames per second mode.

Can you test it yourself and confirm? Thank again for all the great work you are doing to help try and solve this. I am now convinced mostly that Canon needs to tweak this camera for better tracking in low light/contrast when it is in 12 fps mode.



Sycotek said:


> Hi justaphotographer,
> 
> I haven't had any issues using the reset config I got from canon - I have now reconfigured my own without touching the af settings and it worked fine last-night at another runway tracking black subjects at 1/250 f4 iso 10K <- this was not fun...)
> 
> ...


----------



## Sycotek (Jul 28, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Sort of - Fixed! UPDATE 27/07*

Hi Mate,

Just tested your theory out - in my configuration where i know the camera will fail if i used the bugged out config - my fixed version works regardless of being on L or H.

*Scratch that - I can confirm similar findings!!!*

Is it possible to upload an image regarding the scene/target that you are testing on? And please add what lenses you are using (as canon will ask)

-Alex


----------



## justaphotographer (Jul 28, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Sort of - Fixed! UPDATE 27/07*

Hi Alex,

Hmmm this is very strange indeed. I loaded your config file and AI-SERVO was great! Then the only single thing I changed was to go from L to H and as soon as I did that AI-SERVO was horrible again. I then changed back to L and once again it was near perfect. I kept going back and forth and it was reproducible 100% of the time. Yes let me give you more detail about my gear (don't have time just yet for uploading pictures though)

I tested this on multiple lenses. 50 1.2, 50 1.4, and 24 1.4 II. I have yet to try my other lenses. All behaved exactly the same in terms of how responsive the AI-SERVO was.

This might suggest something else is going on. Although I still don't think it's hardware because clearly when I switch to L the AI-SERVO works great and when I switch back to H the AI-SERVO is bad again. I am not sure why you are not seeing that or why I am not see what you are getting. Hmmmm




Sycotek said:


> Hi Mate,
> 
> Just tested your theory out - in my configuration where i know the camera will fail if i used the bugged out config - my fixed version works regardless of being on L or H.
> 
> ...


----------



## Sycotek (Jul 28, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Sort of - Fixed! UPDATE 27/07*



justaphotographer said:


> Hi Alex,
> 
> Hmmm this is very strange indeed. I loaded your config file and AI-SERVO was great! Then the only single thing I changed was to go from L to H and as soon as I did that AI-SERVO was horrible again. I then changed back to L and once again it was near perfect. I kept going back and forth and it was reproducible 100% of the time. Yes let me give you more detail about my gear (don't have time just yet for uploading pictures though)
> 
> ...



Mate I chucked everything on a tripod to make sure there was no funny business and You are correct L is fine H hunts...

I will report this on Monday.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jul 28, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Sort of - Fixed! UPDATE 27/07*

A troubleshooting suggestion. H and L frame rates are customizable (C.Fn3 menu). What happens if you set H to 3 fps or L to 11 fps? Can you ID a frame rate threshold for the problem?


----------



## justaphotographer (Jul 28, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Sort of - Fixed! UPDATE 27/07*

Oh not great, but great in that at least we are seeing the same thing. This brings us closer to a possible cause and hopefully a solution by Canon. Thank you so much for reporting this to Canon. I would report it myself on Monday, but I will be traveling on assignment for couple of weeks. If I can get a break in-between I too will report this. I will however have access to the internet from my phone so I will check back in here in case you or anyone else has any updates on this issues. Of course if I find out anything new myself I will report here so that everyone can benefit from this dialog. Thanks Alex again for all your great help.

-Alex
[/quote]
[/quote]

Mate I chucked everything on a tripod to make sure there was no funny business and You are correct L is fine H hunts...

I will report this on Monday.
[/quote]


----------



## Sycotek (Jul 28, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Sort of - Fixed! UPDATE 27/07*



neuroanatomist said:


> A troubleshooting suggestion. H and L frame rates are customizable (C.Fn3 menu). What happens if you set H to 3 fps or L to 11 fps? Can you ID a frame rate threshold for the problem?



Will check in the morning and report back 

Cheers for this!


----------



## justaphotographer (Jul 28, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Sort of - Fixed! UPDATE 27/07*

Great question Neuro. Yes I have ID a threshold (I tested each frames per second until I ran into the problem). First of all though, the camera will not let you set L above H and vice versa. However using H I have discovered the threshold is 10 fps. That is to say 10 fps and lower seems to work well, but anything above that causes the AI-SERVO to have a melt down (ha!) in low light/contract.



neuroanatomist said:


> A troubleshooting suggestion. H and L frame rates are customizable (C.Fn3 menu). What happens if you set H to 3 fps or L to 11 fps? Can you ID a frame rate threshold for the problem?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jul 28, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Sort of - Fixed! UPDATE 27/07*

With H at 12, L can be 11. Does the issue occur on L = 11 fps?


----------



## justaphotographer (Jul 28, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Sort of - Fixed! UPDATE 27/07*

Yes with L at 11 the problem does occur. The problem only disappears when either H or L is at 10 fps or below.



neuroanatomist said:


> With H at 12, L can be 11. Does the issue occur on L = 11 fps?


----------



## Sycotek (Jul 28, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Sort of - Fixed! UPDATE 27/07*



justaphotographer said:


> Yes with L at 11 the problem does occur. The problem only disappears when either H or L is at 10 fps or below.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



So logically the sampling rate that the light meter feeds scene information to the servo isn't large/fast enough under low light to sufficiently provide data to the AF. I can't get anyone at canon to explain how the light meter is tied to the new af let alone the sampling rates, however going by the findings tonight that would be my initial thought as to what is going on


----------



## justaphotographer (Jul 28, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Sort of - Fixed! UPDATE 27/07*

By the way, so everyone knows...I HATE this kind of stuff. I never come online unless I have a problem I need to solve. Like all of you I'm sure, I would totally rather be just doing my job as a photographer, but when you come across a problem like this that actually affects your work and how you work, it causes me to want to find a solution. Hence my search here where I discovered others who saw the same exact problem as I. I know nothing is perfect, but I just wish this wasn't such a big problem. I'm a photojournalist who shoots in very low light very very often so this is a problem that I actually ran into while on assignment so it has real world consequences.

Just wanted to let everyone know I sure wish we could just forget all this and just focus on picture making. However, this is a pretty big issue that has to be addressed. I can let go of a great deal and accept a number of faults, but this seems like something Canon need to address for a camera of this class and price.


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## Sycotek (Jul 28, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Sort of - Fixed! UPDATE 27/07*



justaphotographer said:


> By the way, so everyone knows...I HATE this kind of stuff. I never come online unless I have a problem I need to solve. Like all of you I'm sure, I would totally rather be just doing my job as a photographer, but when you come across a problem like this that actually affects your work and how you work, it causes me to want to find a solution. Hence my search here where I discovered others who saw the same exact problem as I. I know nothing is perfect, but I just wish this wasn't such a big problem. I'm a photojournalist who shoots in very low light very very often so this is a problem that I actually ran into while on assignment so it has real world consequences.
> 
> Just wanted to let everyone know I sure wish we could just forget all this and just focus on picture making. However, this is a pretty big issue that has to be addressed. I can let go of a great deal and accept a number of faults, but this seems like something Canon need to address for a camera of this class and price.



Totally agree !

I had the camera for <36 hours and stumbled on it... I have spent the last 3 weeks wracking my brain trying to work it out so I feel very fortunate that You noticed it so quickly. I have had to carry a back up body in fear of the AF playing up in situations I couldn't afford the af to be playing up in :/

Will keep this updated with any updates from Canon.


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## justaphotographer (Jul 28, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Sort of - Fixed! UPDATE 27/07*

In doing a few more tests I still have to say (even with the camera set to the lower 10 fps setting) AI-SERVO is nowhere near the advertised -2 EV. For instance when I set my camera to ONE-SHOT in 0 to -2 EV light the camera bangs focus perfectly. However, even set at the lower 10 fps in AI-SERVO under the same light condition, the camera fails to focus in that same light. It is certainly better than when it is set to 12 fps, but still cannot focus at 0, -1, or -2 EV light in AI-SERVO mode.

Can others confirm this? The short of it is that I don't really trust this camera to focus track in low light/contrast.

A big shame because this camera blows away anything I've ever used. It is just that good in every other respect. People say it's not that much different than the 5D3, but owning both I disagree. It is on a whole other planet from the 5D3. Don't get me wrong the 5D3 is a fantastic camera, but can't touch the 1Dx in nearly every area (including the AF). They share similar 61 AF system, but it isn't fully the same.

Really, the troubling low light/contrast AI-SERVO problem is really the only weakness I see with this camera. If it didn't affect the way I shoot I would just forget about it and move on.


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## Sycotek (Jul 29, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Sort of - Fixed! UPDATE 27/07*



justaphotographer said:


> In doing a few more tests I still have to say (even with the camera set to the lower 10 fps setting) AI-SERVO is nowhere near the advertised -2 EV. For instance when I set my camera to ONE-SHOT in 0 to -2 EV light the camera bangs focus perfectly. However, even set at the lower 10 fps in AI-SERVO under the same light condition, the camera fails to focus in that same light. It is certainly better than when it is set to 12 fps, but still cannot focus at 0, -1, or -2 EV light in AI-SERVO mode.
> 
> Can others confirm this? The short of it is that I don't really trust this camera to focus track in low light/contrast.
> 
> ...



It's not only you - reception hall - weddings and runways is where I am fearing it will fail.

With that said - I can confirm -2ev single shot af lock no real issues. Ai-Servo stops working a long time before that, however - it needs contrast to see the target, - 2ev is rather dark I at-least the scenario i created - I could barely see anything moving with my own eyes (the black af points don't help here either) let alone the camera being able to see any contrast at those light levels.

I owned a 2x5d3's for a short while and i didn't really put the unit through the paces as I did with the 1dx - yes its a whole other planet in terms of speed, there is no comparison between the two bodies. The single chip solution really lags the 5d3 (and tbh 5 fps is really more like 3 on the 5d3 with the same configuration i have my 1DX set at 12fps with no noticeable drop in fps). I the IQ between the two bodies esp at hi-iso is no comparison at least in my eyes.

From a technical standpoint the af points on the 1DX and 5D3 are very-very small. More suited to afpoint-to-target point to point hand off under normal light. 

In comparison to nikons offering where the center af cluster are enlarged af points - low light -2ev targeting is much easier (only thing i had to compare was a d800) where the nikons offering locked 8/10 attempts where the 1DX locked 5/10 attempts. At -1ev the the canon was much faster and hit 10/10 (and about 50% faster to lock then the d800)

With that's said useable single shot on the 1DX is -1.7-1.8ev D800 really drops off around -1-1.2ev (for the time it takes to lock reasons)

But there was absolutely no difference in 3d tracking vs single shot on the nikon where the 1DX drops off a long time before that.

I can't re-run the same tests as I dont have access to a d800 anymore but I would be interested to see if the same test run in Ai-Servo L with return the same results.


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## Sycotek (Jul 31, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*

Replicated issue with a brand new 1DX at the store I bought mine from. It's not isolated as I had hoped - staff can't believe it either.

Waiting on Canon now


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## Peter Dawson (Jul 31, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*

I would just like to thank all the members that have contributed to this thread. I'm sure, like me, there are many 1D X owners and soon to be owners following your updates with interest.
I speak for all of us when I say that we appreciate the time you take to post your findings.
Thank you
Peter


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## Sycotek (Aug 1, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*



Peter Dawson said:


> I would just like to thank all the members that have contributed to this thread. I'm sure, like me, there are many 1D X owners and soon to be owners following your updates with interest.
> I speak for all of us when I say that we appreciate the time you take to post your findings.
> Thank you
> Peter



 Hopefully it's isolated and clearly it wont affect everyone as we all shoot in different conditions.

But for those that it does effect - if they could just make note and say if they noticed the issue then we can estimate how wide spread the problem is.

I would love it if its only a handful of bodies - less issues for canon.

In all honesty I was hoping the new shop unit would not show the issue so I could just swap them over and get on with my job.


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## hammy (Aug 1, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*

Do you have problem trying to select the AF point with the multi-controller? It's not responsive with my 1Dx. Let me know if you have the same problem. I'm wondering if it's just my 1Dx or it's the same with all 1Dx

thanks


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## Sycotek (Aug 1, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*



hammy said:


> Do you have problem trying to select the AF point with the multi-controller? It's not responsive with my 1Dx. Let me know if you have the same problem. I'm wondering if it's just my 1Dx or it's the same with all 1Dx
> 
> thanks



I can't say I have that issue - however You need to enable it - if you haven't then turn the unit on - hit [Q], custom config, select multicontroller (bottom right) and set it to af selector.


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## Viggo (Aug 1, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*



Sycotek said:


> hammy said:
> 
> 
> > Do you have problem trying to select the AF point with the multi-controller? It's not responsive with my 1Dx. Let me know if you have the same problem. I'm wondering if it's just my 1Dx or it's the same with all 1Dx
> ...



Great work keeping this thread alive, maybe Craig could push this issue out on the front page and stir it up also? Seems like this really needs all the attention it can get. 

I'm still a tad mad for the silence from Canon on the 1d3 issues, so let's hope this isn't one of those things. They have been more open lately, let's hope they started a new way with that and keep it up! 

Thanks!


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 1, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*

@Sycotek and other affected users: Question on settings - how are the AI Servo 1st and 2nd Image Priority set? Obviously, with Release priority and Shooting speed priority, OOF shots could be taken. The manual indicates with Equal priority for the 2nd image, shooting may slow down. Have you tried setting it to Focus priority for 1st and 2nd? If it's set to the default (equal priority), I wonder if the camera is inappropriately weighting the shutter release over focus?


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## Charles_cz (Aug 1, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*

What is the best way to bring Canon's attention to this issue. Obviously this issue affects more than just few units (mine included) and I am sure a lot of people are not aware of this yet. 

Any official channels to report bugs and problems with 1D X? I am positive they will fix it with firmware update. 

Charles


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## Sycotek (Aug 1, 2012)

*Re: 1DX (possible) Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*



neuroanatomist said:


> @Sycotek and other affected users: Question on settings - how are the AI Servo 1st and 2nd Image Priority set? Obviously, with Release priority and Shooting speed priority, OOF shots could be taken. The manual indicates with Equal priority for the 2nd image, shooting may slow down. Have you tried setting it to Focus priority for 1st and 2nd? If it's set to the default (equal priority), I wonder if the camera is inappropriately weighting the shutter release over focus?



The stock 1DX was used as straight out of box (we were watching the flickering green light to signify no focus lock)
My 1DX is set to 1st frame af priority (will not release without af lock)

Watch the green light flicker - easy to see that its out of focus that way. We got the store unit to even halt the lens as it does on mine.

I am in contact with Canon Australia's National Account Manager - and one of the heads of CPS Australia (so I have come to realise) 

Since isolating the issue I haven't heard back other then I was jumping the gun a little. I have sent further proof (stock unit repeated issue) and no response as yet - but they do take a few days to get back to Me. Hopefully tomorrow - Although seeing as we tried to warn them prior to the oly games they may wait till its over before bringing it to light.


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## Richard Lane (Aug 1, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*

Thanks for bringing these issues to everyones attention. 

I compared One Shot Mode, against the new 1DX AI Servo III and the 1DMKIV AI Servo II using the Canon 85mm f/1.8 set to the standard default Case 1 tracking. I was able to replicate the lack of AF in AI Servo in very poor light, with a low contrast stationary subject. The way I was able to simulate this test was by hanging a gray towel over the shower curtain bar in the bathroom. The test was performed during the day, so I was getting some ambient light coming down the hallway since there was a window about 15 ft away. I left the light off in the bathroom and then I stood just outside of the bathroom doorway. So, I was actually just standing in the hallway. 

With the 1DX, I took a shot at the center of the gray towel in One Shot and the camera was able to achieve focus lock and the ISO was 25,600. I then took a shot of the towel in AI Servo and the 1DX wouldn't AF on the towel. The shot was blurry and out of focus. I also tried to shoot the edge of the towel in AI Servo, but the camera still wouldn't Auto-focus.

I then repeated the test exactly the same way with the 1DMKIV and I got the same exact results. In One Shot the MKIV locked in on the gray towel and it was clearly in focus, despite giving up an approximate 1-stop advantage to the 1DX. Then I switched to AI Servo for the MKIV and the camera would not AF on the towel and the shot was definitely blurry.

So, it seems to me that this is not necessarily an issue isolated to the 1DX only. One thing that I would note is that I would never use the camera this way, under these conditions. If I were taking a static shot like this I would switch to One Shot, which can easily be added to the DOF or Multi-2 button. Since AI Servo is optimized for movment and tracking, perhaps Canon has made a trade-off here and they have sacrificed AI Servo sensitivity for static subjects in "low light with "low contrast." Perhaps movement or motion of the subject would further assist the performance of the 1DX and 1DMKIV in AI Servo? I would also like to add that I have never had any issues tracking athletes in dark uniforms in poorly lit stadiums with the MKIV at ISO 12,800. I have not tried the 1DX yet under these conditions.

I think it would be rare that I would be shooting "static subjects" under such "poor lighting", with such "low contrast" while using AI Servo. However, if others find themselves in this situation, then I would switch to One Shot Mode. AI Servo and One Shot have been optimized for their strengths and weaknesses in individual shooting situations, if they weren't then we would only have one choice. The 7D has AI Focus which is a hybrid mode between One Shot and AI Servo, if your subject was standing still then it would shoot in One Shot mode, if your subject moved then it would switch to AI Servo mode, but it wasn't as good as either mode used separately, so that is probably why Canon has not incorporated AI Focus mode into the 1D series.

I noted that some users above were also trying to track a low contrast subject walking around the house in poor lighting, also noted was the blurry wedding photograph which did have some contrast, and as far as I'm concerned is completely unaccepatble in decent lighting like that. 

Would I like this to not be an issue? Of course! Would it be nice if we could have AI Servo perform better under these condtions? Absolutely! 

If Canon could improve this by increasing the sensitivity of AI Servo at an ISO of 25,600 that would be cool too, however the downside may be that AI Servo would become very skittish and cause the AF to jump around with the slightest movement of the subject, which may then have other ramifications. As the OP and Canon has mentioned, perhaps some tweaking of the custom AF cases and sensitivities will help improve this situation.

Rich


----------



## Sh1n1ng Forc3 (Aug 1, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*

This appears to be a very low light/low contrast issue. I took my 1DX in Ai Servo, 4 point expansion into my bathroom with the door closed and window blocked as to only allow in the smallest amount of light (simulating moonlight conditions at -2ev). There I attempted to focus in Ai Servo as if I was trying to lock onto a subject in low light that needed tracking. In my test I was actually very impressed with my 1DX. I shot this static image with my 50mm F/1.2 at 1/2000, F/1.2 and ISO 51,200. I kept the shutter speed high to simulate the speed I use to stop action even in low light. The camera was able to lock focus on the high contrast and shiny sink however if I tried to lock focus on either the soap bottle or lotion bottle which flanked the sink it failed no matter the distance from the subjects. I put it in L and H shooting speeds and this made no difference for me. All in all I am pleased with this cameras low light focus and tracking ability as it has been put to use in some local band gigs around the Seattle area with fantastic results.

For information purposes my 1DX serial is 042XXXXXXX31.


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## Richard Lane (Aug 1, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*

Thanks for the info!

I just did some additional quick testing with the 1DX to see if this situation was due to high ISO (in dim light) or low contrast or both.

It seems that in AI Servo, even at ISO 100 with the low contrast gray towel (in the bathroom), AI Servo was still unable to focus on the towel. Of course, One Shot was no problem even at high ISO's and low contrast as stated in my post above. 

However, when I focused on the white shower curtain, which is some type of embroidered floral lace :'( (don't ask), the 1DX was able to focus on the medium contrast (lace cloth pattern) shower curtain even at 25,600 in AI Servo.

So, it does seem to be more of low contrast issue rather than a high ISO AI Servo issue.

Rich


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## Sh1n1ng Forc3 (Aug 1, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*

I foolishly left off the most important part of my test above. While the 1DX would focus on the chrome sink at -2ev while in Ai Servo and could not focus on the two low contrast/low light bottles on either side, when I placed the camera in single shot (using a single press with DoF Preview button as configured to change drive mode) the camera immediately locked onto both bottles when asked.

This confirms that the 1DX is clearly more capable of acquiring focus when in single shot vs Ai Servo although my experience has been that Ai Servo is still very good in low light for me. I have not seen my 1DX act in a manner similar to the OP's or the wedding shooter. 

I believe that while in Ai Servo the camera is relocating computational resources/power to "other" factors that drive the focus acquisition algorithms making it more nimble but less able to grab initial focus in low light/low contrast situations. If this is the case this should be able to be adjusted through a firmware update which can adjust the algorithms/methods and resources to allow the camera to achieve similar results as found in single shot (but at what cost?). This leaves me with more questions than answers unfortunately.


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## Sycotek (Aug 2, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*

Thanks to all that have attempted to re-create this:

It's a given that the unit will not focus on -2ev low light via Ai-servo, that's only where the investigation started, if anythig the servo has issues around 1ev. 

The real issue initial target lock (first frame) failing under low light - low light as in a normal light in a normal room trying to lock on a face. 

7D has Ai-focus which I never use - I was comparing Ai-servo against the 1dx Ai servo. With that said the 7D af points are 4 times as large so target acquisition should be faster by default in low light. 

I digress: try working in a normal room with an over head light and try locking on a persons face at 3fps and at 12fps with all points on and first point priority and attempt to lock on the targets face (say 180-200mm from 2m away). Now try an notice just how much faster 3fps is in terms of the af points "dancing" on the targets face.

At 12 fps majority of the time it drives my lens and locks up - if I rack the lens to 0 and attempt to focus the lens won't even rack... At 3-10fps the lens racks (actually tries to focus and gets a lock)

Standard 60w light in a 4x4 room isn't exactly low light ESP considering my gf is white skinned with dark hair and eyes.

The 7D regardless of frame rate gives me the initial lock immediately under the same conditions.


----------



## Richard Lane (Aug 2, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*



Sycotek said:


> I digress: try working in a normal room with an over head light and try locking on a persons face at 3fps and at 12fps with all points on and first point priority and attempt to lock on the targets face (say 180-200mm from 2m away). Now try an notice just how much faster 3fps is in terms of the af points "dancing" on the targets face.
> 
> At 12 fps majority of the time it drives my lens and locks up - if I rack the lens to 0 and attempt to focus the lens won't even rack... At 3-10fps the lens racks (actually tries to focus and gets a lock)
> 
> ...



I'm not following what you are trying to point out or test?
Are you talking about AI Servo? I guess that you mean AI Servo, since the AF points don't dance around in One Shot.

AI Servo requires the subject to change distance?

On my test if I understand you correctly, both frame rates at high speed and low speed seem to dance around similarly and if I had to pick one, I would say that the 12fps actually dances around more, but I'm not sure what you're trying to convey?

My camera had no problem focusing in AI Servo with a small light on.

The focusing limitations previously were related to low contrast in AI Servo with a subject that is not changing distance, and the low light worsened the situation.


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## Sh1n1ng Forc3 (Aug 2, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*



Sycotek said:


> Thanks to all that have attempted to re-create this:
> 
> It's a given that the unit will not focus on -2ev low light via Ai-servo, that's only where the investigation started, if anythig the servo has issues around 1ev.
> 
> ...



I hear what you are saying but my 1DX doesn't have problems locking on target at -1ev like yours while in Ai Servo. It only has issues at extremely low light coupled with low contrast with a static object. 12FPS works just fine for me in Ai Servo as I cannot reproduce your specific issue. This leads me to believe there is something else going on here. Perhaps a bad batch from Canon, but I cannot say. All I know is what I have posted above.


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## Sycotek (Aug 2, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*



Richard Lane said:


> Sycotek said:
> 
> 
> > I digress: try working in a normal room with an over head light and try locking on a persons face at 3fps and at 12fps with all points on and first point priority and attempt to lock on the targets face (say 180-200mm from 2m away). Now try an notice just how much faster 3fps is in terms of the af points "dancing" on the targets face.
> ...



Hi Richard, Thanks for replying 

The original issue was the Ai Servo and contrast in low light - correct, there is a definite discrepancy between ai-servo and one shot ability to focus on objects in low light - but the reason for it being an major issue (to me anyway) is you can't track what you can't lock onto initially: if the lens doesn't rack or the lens racks to infinity and stops when trying lock onto an object - stationary or otherwise - then you can't track that object to start with. Example - this initial became apparent when trying to track my cousin moving around the house, with a fair amount of house lights on.

My camera exhibits this issue in lighting conditions that it should have no issue in (the 7D for example locks regardless) - same as justaphotographer and the in-store demo unit. However that inability to lock onto the target isn't noticed when enabling 10 fps or lower, there is no issue with re-racking the lens and the af points move over the object at a noticeably higher rate then at 12 fps.

I do apologise for the confusion - I hope this is a little clearer.


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## Sycotek (Aug 2, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*



Sh1n1ng Forc3 said:


> Sycotek said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks to all that have attempted to re-create this:
> ...



Thank You! this is the first hint that it may be isolated!


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## Richard Lane (Aug 2, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*



Sycotek said:


> Hi Richard, Thanks for replying
> 
> The original issue was the Ai Servo and contrast in low light - correct, there is a definite discrepancy between ai-servo and one shot ability to focus on objects in low light - but the reason for it being an major issue (to me anyway) is you can't track what you can't lock onto initially: if the lens doesn't rack or the lens racks to infinity and stops when trying lock onto an object - stationary or otherwise - then you can't track that object to start with. Example - this initial became apparent when trying to track my cousin moving around the house, with a fair amount of house lights on.
> 
> ...



Thanks for clarifying. Sure, it would be nice to get that first point locked in. However, I didn't seem to have a problem focusing on an neutral object and getting the initial focus point to lock on, with only a 75 watt bulb in a table lamp in the corner of the master bedroom.

It's interesting that your 7D doesn't have a problem with this.

What AF case scenario are you using, Default Case 1? I will say that my 1DX doesn't exhibit the behavior that your describing. I'm using Case 1 at the moment.

After-all, it's a very expensive camera so it's good that your putting it through its paces to make sure that everything is working as it's supposed to.


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## Sycotek (Aug 2, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*

My way of thinking is i need to know where my gear is going to fail before it fails and costs me $$$.

I trust my 7D as for 2 years and 100K+ clicks still going strong - I know what conditions that body will fail me and I know how to get around it.

That's what I am trying to do with the 1DX is find a baseline where the gear gives out. The problem is the baseline is not that good if the 7D kicks the snot out of it for tracking in low light.

As it is I wouldn't trust the 1DX Ai Servo for a bridal waltz at this point - id get hire out a 1ds3 or 1d4 as i know they work perfectly fine in those conditions.

Edit: Case 1 to answer your question - default with first point focus lock priority (otherwise it will fire regardless of focus)


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## justaphotographer (Aug 2, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*

Exactly what Sycotek is saying. I wouldn't normally have too much problem with this failing of the 1Dx in low light/contrast AI-SERVO tracking except for the 4 reasons below.

1. In the same poor light/contrast situation my older 5D2, 5D Classic and 7D with center point all track in AI-SERVO just perfectly fine (in fact they seem to be as good in AI-SERVO as they are in ONE-SHOT under these conditions). Whereas the 1Dx in the same exact condition totally craps out. This seems pretty unacceptable given that it's AF is pretty amazing in every other way.

2. The fact that when I change the Frames Per Second rate on the 1Dx from 12 to 10 or under, AI-SERVO definitely improves (even though it still totally blows compared to the older 5D2, 5D Classic and 7D). This causes me to wonder why and if something strange is going on that perhaps Canon can address. It can't hurt finding things like this out so that people much brighter than me at Canon might make our cameras better and better with firmware updates or whatever they need to to get the job done.

3. Third, if this was in situations that were so inhumainly dark that nobody should ever even attempt to take a photo then I could just move on and just say that nothing is perfect. However, where the 1Dx AI-SERVO fails is in moderately dark and low contrast situations. In my line of work I have need of tracking subjects in a single lamp lighting situation and as it stands the 1Dx camera in AI-SERVO mode cannot be trusted for that. Like Synotek I just need to know where the baseline is. However, if that baseline totally sucks compared to Canon's other older cameras I think this is something that should be addressed.

4. Lastly, in my experience this does not seem to be highly isolated. My 7 friends and I (all with 1Dx and all received at different times, from different places and from different countries) have all confirmed this exact behavior on all our 1Dx cameras. I would like to think it was isolated, but at least for us its 100% 7 for 7.

I'm on assignment now and can only respond sporadically, but I thank everyone for all the great interactions on this and all working together to try and solve this problem. I trust that Canon folks are really smart and will figure something out soon. Otherwise, this camera is totally amazing and the best I have ever used---even with this issue.




Sycotek said:


> My way of thinking is i need to know where my gear is going to fail before it fails and costs me $$$.
> 
> I trust my 7D as for 2 years and 100K+ clicks still going strong - I know what conditions that body will fail me and I know how to get around it.
> 
> ...


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## briansquibb (Aug 2, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*

Is this using single point/expansion/zone AF?


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## Sycotek (Aug 2, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*



briansquibb said:


> Is this using single point/expansion/zone AF?



Any AF mode


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## Sycotek (Aug 2, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*



justaphotographer said:


> Exactly what Sycotek is saying. I wouldn't normally have too much problem with this failing of the 1Dx in low light/contrast AI-SERVO tracking except for the 3 reasons below.
> 
> 1. In the same poor light/contrast situation my older 5D2, 5D Classic and 7D with center point all track in AI-SERVO just perfectly fine (in fact they seem to be as good in AI-SERVO as they are in ONE-SHOT under these conditions). Whereas the 1Dx in the same exact condition totally craps out. This seems pretty unacceptable given that it's AF is pretty amazing in every other way.
> 
> ...



Agreed - even with the issues - you couldn't pay me to give it back - the shop did ask if i wanted them to hold on to it... I immediately yelled something that made me realise i had become a little too attached to my 1DX so much so it reminded me of golem from lor.

For everything that is wrong with it - there are situations i have been able to shoot in that i once could only dream - i hope canon fixes this issue as it is really a remarkable tool.


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## Richard Lane (Aug 2, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*

Hey Guys.., great thread and info here!

I did some further testing in low light, low contrast with the gray towel in the bathroom. I was able to reproduce what you're both saying. So, that means that in a low light, low contrast situation in AI Servo mode the 1DX had a more difficult time focusing on the towel when it was set to 12 fps, I can confirm this too. (As a side-note, I was able to acquire focus by using the edge of the towel to create more contrast with it against the white wall behind it.) 

Then I switched the 1DX to 3 fps in AI Servo and it took a couple of seconds, but it had a little easier time focusing on the center of the towel with low contrast and low light. 

I also have a MKIV and a 7D, so the MKIV behaved similarly to the 1DX as I had stated in my previous post. However, the 7D in AI Servo, did seem to have a slight advantage over the 1DX and MKIV in that the 7D did acquire focus on the low contrast center of the gray towel, however it took a couple of seconds, whereas when the 1DX acquired focus with the slower fps, it appeared to do it faster than the 7D (just sayin'). 

All of the cameras acquired focus on the low light/ low contrast center of the towel in One Shot mode.

So, if we combine this confirmation with your above impressions of the 5D, and 5DII, and 7D, as well as the improved focus acquisition of the 1DX and MKIV when slower fps were selected. We may be able to come to a common theme here, which is the cameras with the slower frame rates, or slower frame rate setting all did a better job when focusing in AI Servo. 

Now, we all know that the 5D and 5DII have slower fps then the other cameras, but why would the 7D with its 8fps, acquire focus in low contrast/low light in AI Servo? I'm not sure if you guys know the answer, but are you aware that "the 7D cuts its 8 fps rate in half to approximately 4fps," during low light situations. I don't think many people are aware of this limitation of the 7D, as a matter of fact it was one of the main reasons that I upgraded to the MKIV.

To test this out for your self, take the 7D into the bathroom with the light on, then set it manual mode, 1/250sec, f/2.8 and a high ISO and hold in the shutter until you achieve the high fps burst and then turn the light off and you'll see what I mean, as there will be a sudden drop in fps. Now do the same test with the 1DX and when you shut the light there wont be any drop off in fps and the MKV behaves exactly the same way. The 7D compromises it's frame rate in order to better assist itself with acquiring focus in AI Servo mode.

So this may be the reason. I also would like to reiterate that this is only my theory at this point.

I will be interested in hearing what you guys think of this. This doesn't mean that Canon gets a pass, however it may mean that there are some technological, engineering hurdles to overcome to have a fast frame rate perform well in low light, low contrast situations in AI Servo mode.

Enquiring minds want to know!

Rich


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## victorwol (Aug 2, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*

I noticed it too hunting focus in low light in situations I know then5D MKIII would work... I thougt I was doing something wrong.... Any word from Canon on this?


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## Richard Lane (Aug 2, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*

No word from Canon, but if you look at the info provided above, in that the slower fps 5D and 5DII, 7D (which decreases it's own frame rate automatically in low light) and the MKIV and 1DX with slower fps performed better in these AI Servo conditions, then I would say that this is an engineering and design decision. Even in their user manuals, Canon states that the camera may not perform as expected in low light/low contrast situations.

For others reading this thread, the MKIV and 1DX are awesome cameras, and I don't think there is anything actually wrong with them, and I'm thrilled with bot of them, especially the 1DX so far.

Now, if Canon can improve upon it, then I'm all for it.


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## Viggo (Aug 2, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*

We're talking about 7d and 5d2 here, against the 1d X, wow... this isn't very reassuring to say the least...

What if we compare to the 5d3? I'm not really sure how to test this issue with it, but I tried it against a 7d, just in general, and the 7d didn't stand a chance on any level....


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## Richard Lane (Aug 2, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*

Hello Viggo,

I'll just give a quick summary, so as not to create any panic here. I believe the reason the 5D, 5DII, and 7D acquired focus lock on the low contrast, low light, "stationary" towel in AI Servo was because they have a slower frame rate (the 7D lowers its frame rate automatically in low light) which seems to put the emphasis on focus acquisition. The 7D, MKIV, 1DX also have the default feature for first Image focus priority, which also places an emphasis on slower focusing, as opposed to shutter release. We're not yet saying that the 1DX doesn't track well in AI Servo, we're just saying that the first focus lock of a stationary or slow moving subject in low light, low contrast situations is difficult to lock-on when higher than 10fps are in use.

Keep in mind though that when the frame rates of the MKIV and 1DX were lowered they did perform better than the 7D in my testing. I don't own the 5D or 5DII, so I'm going by others findings with regards to this. In case people didn't read the whole thread, at least in my test, these findings were occurring in low light, low contrast situations of a stationary object in AI Servo in order to lock on the target prior to it moving, to establish focus lock so that the camera will be ready to begin tracking once the subject started to move. Sycotek wanted to test the threshold limits of the 1DX's ability.

"I will say though, that in my experience in real world shooting with the MKIV, in low light, low contrast situations, and shooting at 10fps, I have never had a problem in AI Servo mode, and the 1Dx seemed to perform similarly under the testing conditions above, however, I haven't had a chance to test it in game situations yet.

Recommendations would be if the MKIV or 1DX couldn't lock on the first frame of a tracking burst in AI servo, then the shooter needs to make sure that they grab an edge of the subject to create more contrast (I do believe that this is common knowledge at this level) for focus lock, once the subject starts "moving" and the distance to the camera increases or decreases rapidly then this is supposed to aid the camera in AI Servo tracking. The other point here, would be to lower the fps to less than 10fps if a problem did arise in real world shooting situations.

I think a good analogy would be if you had 2 race cars going through a slalom course, lets say that one car was limited to 50mph (7D) and the other car was limited to 100mph (1DX). The drivers were told to make it through the course and around the cones as fast as they can without hitting any cones. The 50mph car would have the same chance as not hitting any cones as the 100mph car, because it's up to the drivers to not exceed the limits of the cars. Just because the one driver can go 100mph, doesn't mean he should. He also has the option of going 50mph, or he can go 75mph and win the challenge, or he go 100mph and drive off of the course.

Viggo, in further response to your concern, I don't think that this is as alarming as you think, because the 1DX can be slowed down to meet the needs of the shooting conditions, just because the 5D, 5DII, and 7D are already slowed down by default doesn't necessarily make them better. I would also be curious to see how the 5DIII behaved, however, I expect that it would behave similarly to the 1DX would if we were to reduce the fps of the 1DX to match the frame rate of the 5DIII.

We also have to be careful when analyzing focus points on the monitor or LCD, because if the camera were to miss focus on the center low contrast point of a subject while holding down the focus button, and then we were to re-compose the shot to the edge of the target, the focus points may look like they were focusing on the higher contrast edge the entire time.

Rich


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## Viggo (Aug 2, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*



Richard Lane said:


> Hello Viggo,
> 
> I'll just give a quick summary, so as not to create any panic here. I believe the reason the 5D, 5DII, and 7D acquired focus lock on the low contrast, low light, "stationary" towel in AI Servo was because they have a slower frame rate (the 7D lowers its frame rate automatically in low light) which seems to put the emphasis on focus acquisition. The 7D, MKIV, 1DX also have the default feature for first Image focus priority, which also places an emphasis on slower focusing, as opposed to shutter release. We're not yet saying that the 1DX doesn't track well in AI Servo, we're just saying that the first focus lock of a stationary or slow moving subject in low light, low contrast situations is difficult to lock-on when higher than 10fps are in use.
> 
> ...



Thank you so much for your thourough reply. 

I used to own the 1d4 so I can clearly say the 5d3 kills it completely when it comes to AF, and that is not limited to when using higher framerate. I had my 1d4 set to 5fps in "L" mode, and it still sucked at indoor tracking compared to the 5d3. So my concern was that the 1d X performed similar to the 1d4, which would have been hugely dissapointing considering the 5d3 is that much better. 

It must be some kind of math I don't really get, because I don't see why logic would support loss of inital focus could be caused by higher framerate. Sure, between frames, AF would struggle more at 12 fps than at 6 fps, that's a given, but when you lock focus and haven't shot a single frame, why does it matter how many frames the camera can shoot consecutively?

And to be honest I would much rather the 1d X slowed down to 10fps in such a situation causing this issue rather than keeping 12 fps and not work.

Btw, my 5d3, as my 1d4 used to be, is set to focus priority for 1st image and tracking for 2nd frame. I would rather have slower framerate and focus than 40 images oof. Although it REALLY annoyed me the 1d4 wouldn't fire at all when it was dim light. 

I also set the camera to keep searching for focus if it couldn't be obtained. I accidently turned that off one time I shot macro and every AF operation just stopped.

Thanks again! After owning a VERY early 1d3, I'm not buying another 7k camera with AF issues.


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## justaphotographer (Aug 2, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*

Hi Richard Lane,

Thanks for the summery, but let me respond to your quote below, because that isn't really the full story. You are right that the 1Dx when set to 10fps or slower does track and lock focus better than when it is set to 12fps, however there is still something strange going on, because in my testing in the SAME lighting/contrast conditions where the 1Dx set to 10fps or slower in AI-SERVO fails completely (meaning not slow focus, but can't focus at all), my older 5D2, 5D, and 7D in AI-SERVO mode all focus lock and track just fine. If my 1Dx set to 10fps or slower focused in AI-SERVO as well as those older cameras then I would be totally okay with this and move on, but as it stand that is not the case.

I think you are right in that there must be some sort of engineering tradeoff going on here, but why is it that in the same light that the 1Dx (at 10fps or slower) totally fails, the older cameras focus and track just fine? This is what I would like for Canon to either explain or fix if possible.

Otherwise, I agree with you that this is the finest camera I have ever owned.



Richard Lane said:


> Hello Viggo,
> 
> I believe the reason the 5D, 5DII, and 7D acquired focus lock on the low contrast, low light, "stationary" towel in AI Servo was because they have a slower frame rate (the 7D lowers its frame rate automatically in low light) which seems to put the emphasis on focus acquisition. The 7D, MKIV, 1DX also have the default feature for first Image focus priority, which also places an emphasis on slower focusing, as opposed to shutter release. We're not yet saying that the 1DX doesn't track well in AI Servo, we're just saying that the first focus lock of a stationary or slow moving subject in low light, low contrast situations is difficult to lock-on when higher than 10fps are in use.


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## Viggo (Aug 2, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*



justaphotographer said:


> Hi Viggo,
> 
> Thanks for the summery, but let me respond to your quote below, because that isn't really the full story. You are right that the 1Dx when set to 10fps or slower does track and lock focus better than when it is set to 12fps, however there is still something strange going on, because in my testing in the SAME lighting/contrast conditions where the 1Dx set to 10fps or slower in AI-SERVO fails completely (meaning not slow focus, but can't focus at all), my older 5D2, 5D, and 7D in AI-SERVO mode all focus lock and track just fine. If my 1Dx set to 10fps or slower focused in AI-SERVO as well as those older cameras then I would be totally okay with this and move on, but as it stand that is not the case.
> 
> ...


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## Richard Lane (Aug 2, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*



justaphotographer said:


> You are right that the 1Dx when set to 10fps or slower does track and lock focus better than when it is set to 12fps, however there is still something strange going on, because in my testing in the SAME lighting/contrast conditions where the 1Dx set to 10fps or slower in AI-SERVO fails completely (meaning not slow focus, but can't focus at all), my older 5D2, 5D, and 7D in AI-SERVO mode all focus lock and track just fine. If my 1Dx set to 10fps or slower focused in AI-SERVO as well as those older cameras then I would be totally okay with this and move on, but as it stand that is not the case.
> 
> I think you are right in that there must be some sort of engineering tradeoff going on here, but why is it that in the same light that the 1Dx (at 10fps or slower) totally fails, the older cameras focus and track just fine? This is what I would like for Canon to either explain or fix if possible.
> 
> Otherwise, I agree with you that this is the finest camera I have ever owned.



Excellent questions and I wont pretend to have all of the answers. Perhaps Canon has made a trade-off for AI Servo tracking motion sensitivity compared to stationary subjects, in low light, low contrast. I don't think that this is actually anything new as my MKIV behaves the same as the 1DX. When I locked in with the 7D in AI Servo, it did take a couple of seconds and it was not nearly as fast as initial One Shot focus lock. So even if it does this one thing better, the MKIV and 1DX are so much better. If I moved the camera around a bit on the target, acquistion was a little faster.

I have never had any trouble auto-focsuing with the MKIV at sports venues, and the MKIV performed exactly the same as the 1DX when I did the low contrast tests. Now in better light the 1DX focuses faster than the MKIV. Look, you could own a Ferrrari and if you're driving it in the rain, and at night, then you will need to keep your foot lighter on the pedal. However, with some dry roads and daylight then you'll be in heaven.

Canon states in their Manual that in low contrast, and low light you may need to use Manual focus, which sounds ridiculous. 

For initial focus acquisiton, other tehniques would include, grabbing the edge of the uniform, helmet, transition from jersey top to pants, alternating from one player to another, switch from background to foreground, pump the One Shot button, lower the FPS, change to release priority and then wait for the player to move a certain distance which definitely aides AI Servo in tracking mode, you can also turn the manual focus dial. Now, I don't actually regularly use these techniques, but they are all available to us. I also do not use all AF points selected, unless I'm shooting into a clear sky. I usually use manual single point AF with expansion points, so I put that point right near an edge if need be, but like I mentioned earlier I haven't found it to be even noticable in real world shooting situations, however that does not imply that some cameras may be having some difficulties.

My friend has a 1DMKIII and he shoots Surfing in One Shot Continuous High speed shooting, because he says that its better than his AI Servo mode.

I think we are all going to have a slight learning curve with all of these new settings, and I can't wait to play around with the new AF Cases and tracking acceleration and deceleration sensitivites in the new AF menus. I haven't had a chance to experiment with this yet, maybe it will help. 

If Canon can improve on this with a firmeware update then I would be thrilled.

Rich


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## Sycotek (Aug 3, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*

Hi Guys:

I did notice something the other day - hopefully someone with more experience can tell me if this may possibly be why we have the issue

*Metering Range EV 0 - EV 20* (at 73°F/23°C with 50mm f/1.4 lens, ISO 100)
The Canon 1Dx offers a 61-point autofocus system, with* autofocus sensitivity from EV -2 to 20* at ISO 100 with an f/1.4 lens.

I'm on the working assumption that the meter tries to see the object prior to af acquisition - but if the meter is 2EV above the AF - it's not going to see what the AF can see?

Or am I way off the mark?


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 3, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*

I wondered about that, and if disabling iTR (which depends on the metering sensor) would help? But I'm not sure how the change with frame rate would play into that hypothesis...


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## Sycotek (Aug 3, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*



neuroanatomist said:


> I wondered about that, and if disabling iTR (which depends on the metering sensor) would help? But I'm not sure how the change with frame rate would play into that hypothesis...



On my day 3 tested I did turn off iTr to see if it played into but seemed to do very little in terms of helping the situation - may rerun a few test at L 3fps and itr on/off in that basic 60w room setup rather then original -1 to 0 ev lowlight


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## Peter Dawson (Aug 3, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*

Last night I finally got a chance to test the AF in low light. I shot a little tennis action with very poor flood lights. 70-200mm 1/1000s, F2.8, ISO12800. IMO this is pretty poor lighting and the AF was incredible. I did not notice any difference when using 12FPS or < 10FPS (I also tried the zone AF, which I never trusted much on the 7D, and it was amazing how the points danced around the players torsos - I was grinning ear to ear). So in a nut shell, I'm very stoked with the AF performance. 

I then decided to try and reproduce the H speed AI AF issue, and sure as nuts, in lower lighting situations the 12FPS AI AF just racked the lens back and forth. Switch to 10FPS and locks first time. I got home and tried the 5D II and it also locks first time. This was by no means an extensive test and I did not try and find that exact lighting point where the 12FPS falls apart, but as a reference 70-200, F2.8, 1/80, ISO25600.

So thats +1 with a low light AF gremlin  (not that I'll ever shoot in these conditions in AI AF, but still . . . .)


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## Sycotek (Aug 3, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*



Peter Dawson said:


> Last night I finally got a chance to test the AF in low light. I shot a little tennis action with very poor flood lights. 70-200mm 1/1000s, F2.8, ISO12800. IMO this is pretty poor lighting and the AF was incredible. I did not notice any difference when using 12FPS or < 10FPS (I also tried the zone AF, which I never trusted much on the 7D, and it was amazing how the points danced around the players torsos - I was grinning ear to ear). So in a nut shell, I'm very stoked with the AF performance.
> 
> I then decided to try and reproduce the H speed AI AF issue, and sure as nuts, in lower lighting situations the 12FPS AI AF just racked the lens back and forth. Switch to 10FPS and locks first time. I got home and tried the 5D II and it also locks first time. This was by no means an extensive test and I did not try and find that exact lighting point where the 12FPS falls apart, but as a reference 70-200, F2.8, 1/80, ISO25800.
> 
> So thats +1 with a low light AF gremlin  (not that I'll ever shoot in these conditions in AI AF, but still . . . .)



Any thoughts about the metering being 0-20ev and the af being -2ev-20ev ? I can' recall where I read the dx constantly meters the scene in servo which could be a reason?


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## Peter Dawson (Aug 3, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*

I had actually not realized the metering range differed to the AF range until reading it this morning. I never did quite understand why the 7D's frame rate dropped to 4FPS when the lighting was poor, even when in MF. Maybe this is a similar scenario? Along similar lines then, if you disable iTR, use a WB mode other than AWB and manual exposure mode, then are you essentially negating the need metering, in which case eliminating the metering range from the scenario? Maybe worth a test when i get home from work this afternoon.

as an aside, do you know if there was ever an explanation for the 7D frame rate drop in low light?


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## Skulker (Aug 3, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*

I've noticed the 7D was slower in dark situations. But as some one said above you don't drive a fast car flat out in the rain, or the dark come to that. Is it really reasonable to expect world beating good conditions in poor conditions? I don't think so.

FWIW I never realzised how much of an step up the 1Dx would be compared to the 7D. Not only will it focus better. It produces pictures that can be cropped harder so I don't miss the 1.6 crop on the sensor. It also drives the lenses much faster. I used to turn off the search for focus if AF is not posible feature, there is no need to do this with the 1Dx because it drives the lens so fast its quicker to wait the second or so it takes to run the lens from stop to stop, rather than the 3 seconds the 7D took. All this on top of the breathtaking low light IQ.

BTW Dont think I don't like the 7D. Its a great camera. To go back to the car senario, I like my Volvo and its been great for me, but its not a super car.

Spelling edited 11:30


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## Peter Dawson (Aug 3, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*

I Quite agree Skuller.

I also upgraded from a 7D and the difference is incredible. The 7D slow FPS caused lots of noise when the camera was released. I dont think there was ever an explanation, nor a fix, but because noone shot in those conditions, the issue went on the back burner.

Just for the record, I have yet to experience the Err 80 issue with my camera. I have never used the orientation linked AF points function and that menu item is still set to the default "same for both orientations" option.

Quick question. Do you normally turn the camera off prior to changing lenses or just change them. I never turn the camera off before changing lenses. Is this wrong?


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## Sh1n1ng Forc3 (Aug 3, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*



Peter Dawson said:


> I had actually not realized the metering range differed to the AF range until reading it this morning. I never did quite understand why the 7D's frame rate dropped to 4FPS when the lighting was poor, even when in MF. Maybe this is a similar scenario? Along similar lines then, if you disable iTR, use a WB mode other than AWB and manual exposure mode, then are you essentially negating the need metering, in which case eliminating the metering range from the scenario? Maybe worth a test when i get home from work this afternoon.
> 
> as an aside, do you know if there was ever an explanation for the 7D frame rate drop in low light?



This is great thinking. I will test this out as well. I will do all the metering manually (manual WB, disable iTR full manual mode) and let the camera just worry about AF and see what happens.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 3, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*



Sh1n1ng Forc3 said:


> This is great thinking. I will test this out as well. I will do all the metering manually (manual WB, disable iTR full manual mode) and let the camera just worry about AF and see what happens.



I predict no difference. I don't believe there's a way to actually turn off metering. Setting everything to manual means the camera won't actually do anything with the metering information, but it's still going to collect it, and I would bet that if that's the cause of the problem then setting everything to manual will be irrelevant. Worth a try though…


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## Richard Lane (Aug 3, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*

When I did my low light, low contrast tests, I used single point with 4 expansion points.

I would like to reiterate that I don't think this is a low light issue. It is more of a "low contrast" issue. When I did my tests I used a low contrast solid color gray towel, in AI Servo @ ISO 25,600 and the 1DMKIV and 1DX had a difficult time locking focus onto the center of the towel. Then when I focused on the edge of the gray towel, there was no problem focusing at all, even though the light hadn't changed and it was still considered very low light @ 25,600.

Then yesterday I tried a coloroful "high contrast" striped beach towel also @ 25,600 in low light, and the 1DX focus locked on the center of the towel with no problem at all. Then I tried the gray towel again as a control and the 1DX wouldn't lock onto the center of the low contrast gray towel. Please note that the light source hadn't changed at all. So, the issue was more with a "low contrast target" and "not a low light target." 

However, even in low light @25,600 ISO plus low contrast, it was still very easy to overcome any deficiencies by simply aiming for the "edge" of the gray towel whereas there was no focusing issue at all, even in AI Servo at 12fps.

Just for completeness, as soon as any reasonable amount of light was introduced into the scene, the 1DX locked right onto the center of the low contrast gray towel. Also from the other day, One Shot Mode had no problem focusing on the center of the low contrast gray towel even in low light.

I didn't use the All 61 Focus point mode, which would make it nearly impossible to focus on the edge or corner of the low contrast gray towel since the camera doesn't know what I want it to do.

I hope that helps!

As far as changing lenses with the camera on or off, it is probably a good idea to try and change the lens with the camera off, since it has been said that when the camera is on the charged sensor may attract more dust. So my practice has been, when I'm not in a rush I shut the camera off, and if I'm in the middle of shooting something and I need to change lenses quickly, then I leave the camera on.

Rich

Edited: I don't think this is a metering issue either. If it were a metering issue or low light issue then why was I able to focus on the "EDGE" of the low contrast gray towel in low light, and why was I able to focus on the "center" of the higher contrast srtiped towel in the same low light? In my opinion, I wouldn't call any of these test results an issue at all.


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## Viggo (Aug 4, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*

Just a question here, so how is the 1d X af?

How many keepers do you have of a runner, a car speeding towards you, kids running around, birds leaving a branch , simple tasks compared to what Canon says it can..

I remember the D4 gave of 100% tacksharps and honestly would like to hear if it's as good as that... i found the mk4 pretty average for a simple test of a speeding biker, i had to chose the few focused one's and not the right moment. Is it perfect under good light and simple movements?


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## Sycotek (Aug 5, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*



Viggo said:


> Just a question here, so how is the 1d X af?
> 
> How many keepers do you have of a runner, a car speeding towards you, kids running around, birds leaving a branch , simple tasks compared to what Canon says it can..
> 
> I remember the D4 gave of 100% tacksharps and honestly would like to hear if it's as good as that... i found the mk4 pretty average for a simple test of a speeding biker, i had to chose the few focused one's and not the right moment. Is it perfect under good light and simple movements?



Hi Mate - in good light, tack sharp nothing dropped, in low light (where i normally shoot and hence the problem) it does drop probably in the realm of 8% and not all images are tack sharp - it is a bit like the lottery in low light at 12 fps.

However at 10fps or lower I haven't seen a frame dropped in similar conditions.


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## Viggo (Aug 5, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*



Sycotek said:


> Viggo said:
> 
> 
> > Just a question here, so how is the 1d X af?
> ...



Wow, that's awesome to hear, since I'm aware of the 12fps lowlight problem, and counting on a fix from Canon, and i can easily live with 10 fps in lowlight.

Thanks! Seems the 1d X can makes use of the 12 fps, something the mk4 never could at 10...


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## Viggo (Aug 16, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*

Any new updates here?

I tried with my 1d X, and where the One Shot still locks, both the 12 fps (H) and the 3-10 fps (L) I tried stops working. That isn't a problem, and fully understandable.

Where the 3 fps lovked, the 12 fps locked. It seemed very much like it to me that the framerate didn't make a difference and that Ai Servo gave up no matter the framerate, but the One Shot kept going.

Ai Servo locked with very little light and contrast at f1,4, 1/60s at iso 16k.

*update* Tried on my grey couch and at 12 fps (H) it locks, at 8 fps (L) it doesn't ???

*UDPATE 2* I just realized my battery was at 31% (still two dots) and Canon states:

"EOS-1D X maximum continuous shooting speed is restricted to 10 fps when the battery charge is less than 50%, or when the ISO speed is above 32,000. If the camera's internal temperature is low and ISO speed above 20,000, maximum continuous shooting speed is restricted to 10 fps"

So I guess my tests tonight isn't useable, I'll charge up and try again.


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## Viggo (Aug 16, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*

Charged the battery and tried again with the 35 L and the results; exactly the same as before. 12 fps H and 8 fps L locked at exactly the same thing equally quick and they both lost their ability to lock at the same amount contrast and light. One shot still worked until too dark to see and beyond.

In 12 fps H mode it locked on the black zipper of my black Induro tripod bag with f1,4 @ 1/60s 6400 iso. I think that's pretty crazy... Shot with center point, no expansion.

My serial number is: 053011xxxxxx


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## Sycotek (Aug 17, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*



Viggo said:


> Charged the battery and tried again with the 35 L and the results; exactly the same as before. 12 fps H and 8 fps L locked at exactly the same thing equally quick and they both lost their ability to lock at the same amount contrast and light. One shot still worked until too dark to see and beyond.
> 
> In 12 fps H mode it locked on the black zipper of my black Induro tripod bag with f1,4 @ 1/60s 6400 iso. I think that's pretty crazy... Shot with center point, no expansion.
> 
> My serial number is: 053011xxxxxx



Remembering that my main issue wasn't even in remotely low light - it is a strange issue with seems to effect a fair few bodies. I can make it fail in daylight - i can just about predict where it will fail at 12 fps.

However:

I spat the dummy with mine - I have had it die on my twice in one wedding shooting in broad daylight - two days ago, one shot - 70-200 f2.8 II with 600ex rt on board (fill flash) - iso 100 1/600 at f4 - lens locks up and refuses to rack, had to turn it off and on again to start working.

Canon are replacing it tomorrow when I get back to Australia from overseas, however after not hearing back from them for 4 weeks I had to threaten to dump my Canon gear to get their attention.

The most annoying thing is even the head of Canon Australian and CPS Australia won't comment on the findings. They are basically ignoring the issue... it's disheartening.

I'm not sure if you have noticed there was a report of olympic shooters having issues during the games where canon reported 5-6 months to fix the af issues...

---

On a side note - we were in a reception with 5D2, 5D3, 1D4, 1Ds3, 1DX and 7D. The 5D3 and 1DX consistently had issues locking onto dark skin (not so good if you are working in asia). 5D2 actually had very little issues. on the 1DX I had to actually manual focus to get any shots which to me is rather stupid.

Using the 600EX for af assist did help (and didn't lock up when using at EF 50 f1.4)

---

I will have to redo all my tests with the new body tomorrow.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 17, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*



Sycotek said:


> The 5D3 and 1DX consistently had issues locking onto dark skin...


I haven't noticed this with the 1D X, neither on One Shot nor in AI Servo with iTR enabled.




EOS 1D X, EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM @ 200mm, 1/250 s, f/2.8, ISO 4000




EOS 1D X, EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS II USM @ 200mm, 1/320 s, f/2.8, ISO 4000


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## Sycotek (Aug 18, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 31/07*



neuroanatomist said:


> Sycotek said:
> 
> 
> > The 5D3 and 1DX consistently had issues locking onto dark skin...
> ...



You light is excellent there f2.8 1/320 iso4K - The conditions we were in need flash if we could lock on - it was iso 25K territory f2.0 1/125.

Still noted


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## Sycotek (Aug 20, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! UPDATE 21/08*

Picked up the new body and ran a simple test: finding's added to initial post.


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## Sycotek (Sep 5, 2012)

*Re: 1DX - Ai Servo Issue - Low light focus failure! Last Update September 2012*

Final update on main post 

Finally


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## Viggo (Sep 5, 2012)

Thanks for the update. Glad the switch worked for you also.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 5, 2012)

Sycotek said:


> Anyway - since I hadn't heard from Canon, chasing it up every day I actually switched over to a D4 setup...



Just curious...what lenses are you routinely using with the D4, and are you pleased with the Nikon counterparts to the Canon lenses you used previously? Or by D4 did you mean 1D Mark IV?


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## Sycotek (Sep 5, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Sycotek said:
> 
> 
> > Anyway - since I hadn't heard from Canon, chasing it up every day I actually switched over to a D4 setup...
> ...



Nikon D4 - I have only replaced my core lenses: 24-70 f2.8, 70-200 f2.8 VR II and the 50 1.4G (which frankly is superb). Build wise the nikkor glass on the face value seems to be built better and nice little touches such as the front element on the workhorse glass has a visible rubber gasket. The tripod collar on the 70-200 on a probody acts as a stand in landscape mode. All lenses I have purchased so far have come with bags/pouches and hoods. 

Majority of their lenses are sealed and have rear rubber gaskets (G's anyway) including the 50mm 1.4.

IS to me seems better then VR II however that may just be because VR II is quieter and *feels* like it isnt doing much - no more then 1/3 stop at best if anything.

70-200 2.8 II vs 70-200 VR II - I'd probably give it to canon in terms of wide open sharpness (let's face it, it's a killer lens) 24-70 Nikkor hands down (the two ef 24-70's I owned were horrible) and the 50 easily the nikkor - fast quiet accurate - and doesnt hunt. Actual drive speed of the lenses on a probody feels to be as quick as the L grade ef ultrasonics, if not a little quicker (again that could be the fact they are quieter and the af on the d4 (in my experience) is just quicker overall)


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## runninghead (Sep 16, 2012)

Well, it's glad to hear I'm not the only one with this AI servo issues. Loaded your camera config and magically the focus was spot on! I still have issues with AI servo failed to focus even on midday, the AF just stayed there like it was off, but the indicator says the AF is still on. Tried to track a person walking away from the camera (in mid-day, lots of lights and contrast) and it fails to track! I just can't believe it... The AF settings were "Case 1", AF points were automatic, and left everything else default. The AF engaged when I pressed the shutter button, and it took 1st frame spot on focus, but the rest of my burst were all OOF. I'm guessing there's a problem with the AUTO AF, it worked out fine with ASSIGNED AF points though. Quite a shocking discovery that day. Btw I'm using a 24-70 f/2.8L lens.


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## Sh1n1ng Forc3 (Sep 16, 2012)

Sycotek said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Sycotek said:
> ...



This seems odd to me as every major head-to-head comparison between the 1DX and D4 reach the exact opposite conclusion that the 1DX is much faster in focusing etc. Not trying to accuse you of anything just curious if this has to do more with the lenses you primarily shoot with. Also as someone who used to shoot with Nikon pro bodies myself I can say that the Nikon 24-70 is simply amazing. Can't wait to try out the new Canon 24-70.


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## Sycotek (Sep 17, 2012)

Sh1n1ng Forc3 said:


> Sycotek said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Don't get Me wrong - in good light the 1DX/5D3 AF (esp AI Servo) is sensational - in the conditions i shoot - eg receptions halls, the 1DX/5D3 struggles where the D4 just works. The fact i could make it fail in broad daylight by focusing a grey object in single shot together with the other issue of 3sec af lock when using a flash mounted was the final nail.

For the record - we originally isolated my set of lenses when I sat with canon cps and we were trading bodies and lenses with nil effect.

Not saying the switch over has been smooth - nikon have their own set of problems - but nothing i cant live with.

I can't for the life of me understand why the camera is rated to -2ev though?! if canon themselves tell me its -0.5 ev at 10fps. The issue isn't the 10fps its the modification to the focusing system, ie. it wont focus - when 12 fps is engaged as accurately or as fast as when 10 fps is enabled. I'm very surprised this was kept quiet through the Olympics - i don't see how the shooters there weren't affected.


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## xtralight (Dec 1, 2012)

Thanks for the info! I uploaded the settings and my 1Dx focus accuracy is very good now in Servo when shooting in low light. Much less hunting in Servo. My D800E performed much better before but now it is on par. My focusing issue was a nightmare since I shoot a lot in low light. I am using the new Canon 24-70mm f2.8II.


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## bdunbar79 (Dec 1, 2012)

Odd. I routinely shoot in low light sports, no slower than 1/800s with a pair of 1D X's and have had no AF problems that I've noticed. ISO typically up to 10,000. I shoot only in AI Servo mode.


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## paolotaverna (Dec 1, 2012)

Indeed this post is excellent! Although I am an ex Nikon D4 shooter and a little disapointed with 1Dx performance in low light..I had a lot of expectation! I switched to Canon for tones and for f1.2 lenses...but it really comes short in low light focus and Dynamic range (with the D4 I could have shot 2 stops under(i'd do this to get better shutter speed) and still get great quality when adjusting exposure)...not feasible with 1Dx...


Focus really is harsh in Low light...TRIED LOTS of settings Servo / one shot...etc but really light years from D4...I guess I'll get used to it.


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## xtralight (Dec 1, 2012)

bdunbar79 said:


> Odd. I routinely shoot in low light sports, no slower than 1/800s with a pair of 1D X's and have had no AF problems that I've noticed. ISO typically up to 10,000. I shoot only in AI Servo mode.



For my part, I was shooting at ISO 12800, f/2.8 and 1/160s. Target has very low contrast. My D800E locked more times than my 1Dx...


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## bdunbar79 (Dec 2, 2012)

The differences I've noticed between D4 and 1DX is the high ISO noise reduction and printing capabilities. The other issue is that I cannot compare which camera locked focus more times, because I have never had my 1DX not lock focus. If you are in such poor lighting that you need to set your shutter that low, aperture that wide, and ISO that high, then who really cares? Why would you even shoot in that situation and expect anything more? No camera in the world will AF very well, so you cannot say it's just the 1DX. The D4 misses just as much. Even in the darkest sports venues, I can easily shoot at 1/640s, f/2.8, and ISO 6400 on a 1DX, and not underexpose. The beautful thing is that if I do EC, I can raise the ISO to 10,000, apply 50% NR, and print a beautiful 8 x 10. If I have to go darker than that, I won't shoot or I'll use a flash.

When you say your D800E locked more times than your 1DX, did you have both at the same time alternating each camera? Was anyone in this thread shooting with both at the same time at the same event, one in each hand? 

Why in every other thread "the camera doesn't matter" unless it's a Nikon vs. Canon issue, when there's a problem, suddenly it's the camera again? Oh you guys keep me so entertained on this site. Keep it up! Meanwhile I'm going to keep shooting with my 1DX's.


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## paolotaverna (Dec 2, 2012)

Bdunbar79, 

when you say "The differences I've noticed between D4 and 1DX is the high ISO noise reduction and printing capabilities."

which one do you like better?


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## xtralight (Dec 3, 2012)

bdunbar79 said:


> The differences I've noticed between D4 and 1DX is the high ISO noise reduction and printing capabilities. The other issue is that I cannot compare which camera locked focus more times, because I have never had my 1DX not lock focus. If you are in such poor lighting that you need to set your shutter that low, aperture that wide, and ISO that high, then who really cares? Why would you even shoot in that situation and expect anything more? No camera in the world will AF very well, so you cannot say it's just the 1DX. The D4 misses just as much. Even in the darkest sports venues, I can easily shoot at 1/640s, f/2.8, and ISO 6400 on a 1DX, and not underexpose. The beautful thing is that if I do EC, I can raise the ISO to 10,000, apply 50% NR, and print a beautiful 8 x 10. If I have to go darker than that, I won't shoot or I'll use a flash.
> 
> When you say your D800E locked more times than your 1DX, did you have both at the same time alternating each camera? Was anyone in this thread shooting with both at the same time at the same event, one in each hand?
> 
> Why in every other thread "the camera doesn't matter" unless it's a Nikon vs. Canon issue, when there's a problem, suddenly it's the camera again? Oh you guys keep me so entertained on this site. Keep it up! Meanwhile I'm going to keep shooting with my 1DX's.



I care about shooting in very low light. That is why I invest in a 1DX. I wanted the top of Canon. I do not need you to care about my type of photography. My post is about sharing to others, especially to the OP, that I have the same problem as him. I cannot use a flash, I wanted the natural lightning.

Yes, I had both cameras with the same type of lens: my 1DX(latest firmware) with the new Canon 24-70 F2.8 MkII and my D800E with a Nikon 24-70G f2.8. They were used at the same moment, with the same subject. 

Look, if the 1DX delivers for you, I glad that it does. For me, I just hope that I won't have to shoot to often in very, very low light.


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