# EOS 5D Mark IV & IVc Specs Surface, Most Likely Bogus [CR0]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 30, 2015)

A new spec list for the Canon EOS 5D Mark IV is making the rounds. We don't put any stock in and it's likely just clickbait. We have rated this [CR0]



> Canon EOS 5D Mark IV will have a 28mp full frame sensor, 12 fps, Dual Pixel autofocus system AF III, crop mode (or clipping) to 1.3x, to simulate the sensor size of the EOS 1D old series, or 1.6x , to simulate the size of Canon's APS-C sensor, anti-technology flickr; sensitivity from 100 to 204.800iso, 409,600 in extended mode.
> Canon EOS 5D Mark IV c: 18MP full frame sensor, very useful for optimizing the performance at high ISO and burst. Dual Pixel III AF autofocus system with 61 points of focus, ISO sensitivity from 100 to 204,800, 4k video.



It's Friday, have fun with it. I've been emailed a bunch of times about the above spec lists and just like Keith over at Northlight, we feel it's nonsense. There will not be a "prosumer" 4K DSLR from Canon in the next round of updates. The EOS-1D X Mark II will get the 4K video, but that's beyond the prosumer market.

We won't be linking the original source, but Northlight has if you're curious.


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## bluemoon (Oct 30, 2015)

those specs would make more sense for the DXII. Could it it just be a mix up with the model?

pierre


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## SilverSnake (Oct 30, 2015)

> anti-technology flicker



That sounds... useful? :


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## K (Oct 30, 2015)

Framerate would all depend on the 1DX2

Nikon D5 is rumored to come in at 15fps. Canon must surpass that. So we're probably looking at 16.

At 16fps, what would be acceptable for a 5D series camera? 

My guess is 8. I don't think they will up it to 10 or more. They'll leave 10 for the 7D2 niche. The 5D usually has 1/2 the speed of the 1D line. I suspect this trend will continue. The big reason why high FPS is not a good idea in the 5D series is because Canon doesn't want anyone getting good full frame sports performance on the cheap. Want lots of FPS, step up to 1D - or settle for Crop.

Remember, there's no telling how many of those FPS are with mirror lockup at this point, thus limiting the mirror shots to a lower FPS. This lowers the ceiling a bit and I doubt Canon wants a FF to come anywhere close to that.

Hearing the talk/rumors about 4K in the 1DX2 ...I almost get the feeling this will not happen in the 5D line. I get an impression of difficulty to implement - which if true, Canon might get stingy and leave it out of the 5D series. All the talk about heat issues and whatnot.

In fairness to Canon, if they do that - it would be mostly for technical reasons. Canon is not a company that just throws in specs or features for the sake of doing so. They make sure these features actually work in a professional environment and are robust. Other companies add these things in, but it is always with some flaw or compromise. A poor or lacking implementation. When people buy Canon, no they are not always getting bleeding edge specs - but they are buying an assurance that what the camera actually can do - it will do properly and reliably in a wide range of pro applications.

However, while Canon would be doing the right thing - to the marketplace it would be the wrong thing and it will be brutal on them from a PR standpoint.

I was a huge skeptic about the dual-model 5D line. But it may actually come true if the one camera will be build with internals to handle 4K in a reliable manner. I just find it odd they would dedicate a mid-range pro camera's design just for 4K. But I understand the internet media would thrash Canon to death if they don't.


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## Don Haines (Oct 30, 2015)

SilverSnake said:


> > anti-technology flicker
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds... useful? :


I assume that's the latest Sony sensor


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## Pookie (Oct 30, 2015)

You missed it... it's anti technology *flickr* !!! It will only allow Zenfolio and SmugMug uploads.


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## ahsanford (Oct 30, 2015)

I'm still sticking with the following theory about the 5D4:


There will be only one. I don't expect a 5D4 and 5D4 R like the 5DS line.


It will have a higher framerate and lower MP count than the 5DS line. (That's a certainty, right?)


The camera will designed to record 4K, but we won't know that or be able to use it at launch. It won't be in the menu system and won't be stated in the launch marketing collaterals. Canon will launch with only HD/1080 video, and if sales truly tank because of this, they drop a firmware surprise and aggressively push it as a 4K rig. I know people hate this approach, but it's a shrewd way for Canon to hedge its bets on protecting Cinema EOS / 1DX Mark II sales vs. keeping their customers happy.


Hooooooopefully -- given that it needs to differentiate as more of an all-battlefield professional rig unlike the studio/tripod monster the 5DS is -- it will get the 1DX II's super fancy new AF system.



If they don't give me spot metering at any AF point in 2016 (when Nikon has that feature on _crop_ rigs, for @#[email protected]'s sake), I believe I will cry.

That is all.

- A


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## [email protected] (Oct 30, 2015)

No 4K on 5D4 admin, it is sure? 
That's an epic fail from Canon if it is the case, and it makes me very happy I switched from 5DIII to A7R II. 
Won't consider going back to Canon if there is no 4K. 
That would be a joke..... They opened up the DSLR market to video with the 5D2, did tons of sales thanks to it and now they won't put 4K on a 3500$ where all the competition have it, from phone to compact camera to FF camera to pro cameras ... ?
Non sens. How will this look like in 2 years from now when even on a Nikon D5xxx you will have 4K...


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## Niki (Oct 30, 2015)

Hello !!!

Yes the new 5d will have 4k!


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## ahsanford (Oct 30, 2015)

And, branding-wise, I see little logic to bifurcating the 5D4 line into 'normal' and 'video'. If a heavily video-leaning rig is coming (I mean, 80+% of people would buy such a rig for video), it should get ti's own brand distinction.

Then the non-gripped professional line of FF rigs would be 5DS/R + 5D4 + 5D(Something else).

That would be something akin to Sony's A7R II + A7 II + A7S II. High-res, all-purpose, and video. That would work, I guess. I'm torn on whether such a 'specialized rig platform' strategy is better than Nikon's good/better/best setup of the D610/D750/D810.

- A


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## unfocused (Oct 30, 2015)

Craig seems awfully confident that there will be no 4K in the 54IV. I'm skeptical, but this explanation makes sense:



K said:


> Hearing the talk/rumors about 4K in the 1DX2 ...I get an impression of difficulty to implement... All the talk about heat issues and whatnot.
> 
> ...In fairness to Canon, if they do that - it would be mostly for technical reasons. Canon is not a company that just throws in specs or features for the sake of doing so. They make sure these features actually work in a professional environment and are robust...
> 
> ...However, while Canon would be doing the right thing - to the marketplace it would be the wrong thing and it will be brutal on them from a PR standpoint.



From a marketing standpoint I agree with ahsanford:



ahsanford said:


> And, branding-wise, I see little logic to bifurcating the 5D4 line into 'normal' and 'video'. If a heavily video-leaning rig is coming (I mean, 80+% of people would buy such a rig for video), it should get it's own brand distinction.



But, the million dollar question is: have digital cameras evolved to the point where the trade-offs between video and stills create too many compromises? The 5DII was the "convergence" camera. Are we now getting to the point where the lines need to diverge? Only Canon knows the answer to that, but I can see the possibility. Whether it would be a new line or a "cinema" version, I don't know. Honestly, I would think that an 80D would be the logical place for a video-centric camera, as the 70D is already close. It would shake things up quite a bit if the 80D did 4K, kept the touch/flip screen, added a headphone input, added a higher frame rate for slow-motion and offered improved focus tracking. And, the smaller sensor (which is still large by cinema standards) would not compete with Canon's high-end line.



Since the listed specs are acknowledged to be bogus, not much point on commenting on them. The 5DIV specs will largely be driven by the 1DxII specs. I'm not a fan of the word "crippling," but I do understand the need for product differentiation and there do need to be some differences between the 1DX and 5D. So, what the 5D IV gets will be driven by how big of a leap the 1DX II makes and frankly I wonder what more can be done or if we are starting to hit the upper limits.

I doubt if Canon is worried about protecting the 7DII, so I could see a 5D IV that is basically the same as the 7DII in all features, but carries a 24mp full frame sensor. That alone would make for a very sweet upgrade.


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## FEBS (Oct 30, 2015)

Keep on dreaming guys, 

when 20% of that spec would be true, then you would even surprise me. There will be no revolution.


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## Big_Ant_TV_Media (Oct 30, 2015)

totally bogus 50-60% of this rumor
im'a go out on a limb and say
the 5D4 will have a single or dual Digic 6+ or 7 processors
a new sensor 22-25 mp
fps will be 8 "why go and violate the 7D Mark 2 sales"
no 4K video only 720-1080p 24-60 fps (if they put in 4k then the camera will be $3000-3200 easily and the market will be flooded with used or good condition 5D3's
even better and improved weather sealing (5d3/7D2 sealing combo"
the combo EF and EF-S mount so we can use STM/DPAF lenses on them "would be great
65 point AF like the 7D2
a 1.6x crop option as well reducing it too 6-7fps if using it on action
anti flickr tech 2.0
(wish dey found a new way too put wifi)


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## ahsanford (Oct 30, 2015)

unfocused said:


> I doubt if Canon is worried about protecting the 7DII, so I could see a 5D IV that is basically the same as the 7DII in all features, but carries a 24mp full frame sensor. That alone would make for a very sweet upgrade.



For sports/wildlife/action people: 1.6x reach, 10 FPS with top-notch tracking, and the 1DX AF system will honestly protect the 7D2 for 3-4 years despite any other advancements crop sensors see over that time. A full-frame rig does not steal action 7D2 users because if you are in the action/sports/wildlife 'reach' world, moving from crop to FF breaks you financially to get back the length _you used to have_ in crop. Those folks stay put and are deeply loyal (consider: Nikon doesn't even offer a 7D2 'professional crop' equivalent product line).

For general users who buy the 7D2: Yes, FF rigs -- esp. the 6D or 6D2 down the road -- will certainly poach _general_ (non-action) shooters from the 7D2 pool, but Canon is ecstatic about that as EF lenses cost more than EF-S lenses.

So, personally, I see the stills side of the 1D / 5D / 7D rigs as symbiotically linked to help each other improve generation over generation. They share AF systems, interface improvements, all that. You just opt in for the one that makes sense for your needs and your budget. 

- A


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## kefirm (Oct 30, 2015)

The key question is WHEN?! 
Cause I am starting to turn more and more into Sony A7R II.


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## WeekendWarrior (Oct 30, 2015)

[email protected] said:


> No 4K on 5D4 admin, it is sure?
> That's an epic fail from Canon if it is the case, and it makes me very happy I switched from 5DIII to A7R II.
> Won't consider going back to Canon if there is no 4K.
> That would be a joke..... They opened up the DSLR market to video with the 5D2, did tons of sales thanks to it and now they won't put 4K on a 3500$ where all the competition have it, from phone to compact camera to FF camera to pro cameras ... ?
> Non sens. How will this look like in 2 years from now when even on a Nikon D5xxx you will have 4K...



My thoughts exactly.. If Canon skips out on 4K this time around, that means it won't be implemented for another few years and by then every company will have 6K before Canon can even get 4K..


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## Tugela (Oct 30, 2015)

If it comes with Digic 7 processors, it very likely will have nominal 4K video capability. If it comes with Digic 6 processors, like the 7D2, then it will be HD video capable only.


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## Maximilian (Oct 30, 2015)

SilverSnake said:


> > anti-technology flicker
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds... useful? :


*lol*


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## unfocused (Oct 30, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > I doubt if Canon is worried about protecting the 7DII, so I could see a 5D IV that is basically the same as the 7DII in all features, but carries a 24mp full frame sensor. That alone would make for a very sweet upgrade.
> ...



Not sure where we disagree. I use the 7D II almost exclusively for sports. But, if the 5DIV had the 7DII autofocus and, say, 9-10 FPS, I'd be using it for indoor sports (better low light performance) and the 7DII for outdoor sports (better reach).

My point was simply that some will say Canon won't undermine the 7DII (in fact at least one person has already made that claim.) That's not the way Canon thinks, despite what some Canon haters claim. I was simply trying to make the point that Canon won't hesitate to put as many of the 7DII specs into a full frame 5DIV and if they do that, it will be sweet. For me personally, if the 5DIV comes out in mid-2016, I won't be upgrading for another nine months to a year anyway, since I will wait until the price settles. At that point, if the 5D specs are similar to the 7DII, my 7DII may see a lot less use for indoor sports.


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## Maximilian (Oct 30, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> ...We have rated this [CR0]...


I wouldn't even give that a [CR-1] 
or - as I stated before in another thread about this - you'll need some salt mine dump of salt for that


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 30, 2015)

"There will not be a “prosumer” 4K DSLR from Canon in the next round of updates. The EOS-1D X Mark II will get the 4K video, but that’s beyond the prosumer market."

So you really think Canon leaves the DSLR video market behind for yet 3-4 more years after 2016???

Then again, maybe I believe you, I already gave up on more DR (and believe it comes into play all the time with amazing fall forest foliage scenes, maybe it's 'bad' lighting when shooting slides or film or on old sensors, but it can work on new sensors and it sure looks good enough to bring tears to people's eyes in real life, so not sure you can say only ugly lighting needs more DR....) and 4k video. 5D3 gives me 1080P RAW video and while the fps is a little slow, decentish sports action etc and the Sony gives 4k and all the high DR stuff.

I'm not sure what Canon sees to gain protecting their precious 4k and decent video usability features though with the Sony just sitting out there, the Sony that takes every lens. How would doing that in their DLSR hurt the Cxx or whatnot any?? Any hurt is already out there from others. The only thing they can lose is sales. Whatever hurt they feel to Cxx stuff by lower end stuff is already being done. So why would they be so obsessed with internal segment protection still? They simply can't protect that anymore since the cat is already out there, out of the bag. They've already a huge chunk of the DSLR video type sales and those getting the other brand stuff wouldn't have gone for expensive top Cxx anyway and none of them would leap after 1DX2 instead either.


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## StudentOfLight (Oct 30, 2015)

Tugela said:


> If it comes with Digic 7 processors, it very likely will have nominal 4K video capability. If it comes with Digic 6 processors, like the 7D2, then it will be HD video capable only.


By that logic, what video resolution would the 1D-C shoot with its dual Digic 5 processors?


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 30, 2015)

unfocused said:


> But, the million dollar question is: have digital cameras evolved to the point where the trade-offs between video and stills create too many compromises?



That might have been reasonable to suggest if the A7R II hadn't arrived. However, it did arrive and it proved that you don't even have to sacrifice MP count to get top video. It has a very high MP count and yet still can give non-line skipped and even non-binned and even on top, over-sampled, 4k video.
And the DR is great, the SNR is great. Where is the compromise?

The thing is the 5D3 does basic stuff very well so they need to deliver a lot to get the people who just need the solid all-around basics of 6fps, pretty good AF, FF, kinda stuff covered and get them to want to spend thousands more on something new instead of just sticking with their trusty 5D3 for years more and the competition is putting out so many other options for those who shoot with special lighting and need more DR or want 4k and so on and imagine if Nikon drops an A7R II in DSLR form?

There are only so many fps and AF do-dads they can add to the 1DX2 so if they protect ultra-high end video too much and can't or won't do stuff with the sensors then what are they left with for 5 series? I can really only see a PJ/action cam 10fps (already might take away lots of 1DX2 sales though as, especially in the terrible photo market these days, many can live with the 8-10fps they did for ages and rather save the $ than get the 14-20fps or whatnot perhaps; also 10fps FF mirror box has real cost and if they want to max margin as they seem so into, is making the one thing it does speed the way to even max margin per copy?). If you don't need DR or video and need tops of tops AF and good buffer and fps that would be very sweet. But that is already cutting down a lot of the broad potential market.

Maybe they are stuck and just didn't realize how fast things would move for sensors and video and such which is why I was trying to urge things on so much already years ago already, before it was like oh gee we shoulda started earlier.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 30, 2015)

Tugela said:


> If it comes with Digic 7 processors, it very likely will have nominal 4K video capability. If it comes with Digic 6 processors, like the 7D2, then it will be HD video capable only.



1DC doesn't even have Digic 6 much less 7 and it does 4k.


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## tyger11 (Oct 30, 2015)

If Canon really does make most of its money on lenses instead of cameras, then the logic of them not supporting 4K and lots of video-related features is especially nonsensical. Sell cameras with every feature they can to keep people on the Canon lens platforms: sell lots of lenses.

If they are crippling their lower-end cameras to protect their high-end cameras, that is also not well thought out. When someone wants a camera that does still and good video (or just good video for a fair price), and they see Canon refuses to sell a good 4K camera with video features, they aren't going to step up to Canon's cinema line for way more money, they are going to look at what Panasonic and Sony are offering, and that's the end of that. No profit on unsold cameras, and less chance of selling Canon lenses (though there is still some chance of Canon lenses on non-Canon cameras).

This entire strategy really is VERY shortsighted. If Canon didn't have great color science, a big selection of existing lenses, and pro support network, they'd be out of the game entirely at this point. Sony is making strides in the color science with their latest two cameras (though they have a long way to go), new lenses are coming out (and third party lenses like the Sigma Art are very good indeed), plus with IBIS, they don't have to cram IS into every lens. The pro support will be built up over time as with the lens catalog. The longer Canon waits, the better for Sony. Being concerned with competing with your own cinema line is being concerned about the wrong competition. Canon is slow, and Sony is very, very hungry.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 30, 2015)

OPG said:


> Canon will not output 4K video on their camera models in this new generation lineup below the 1D model, as that would take away from the C100 Mark II, C300 Mark II, and C500 sales!



But every single one of those sales that could get taken away from that top stuff will get taken away anyway. If Canon were alone, you'd have a point. But there are others doing it and they will get all the sales and others are even doing it with things that take Canon glass so there is nothing whatsoever that Canon has to hold those losses back. So what does Canon gain from this protection? They can't protect it. It's too late. Why not have all the sales that will get taken from Cxx at least get taken by a 5D4 instead of a D820 or A7R II or B or C or etc.


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## ahsanford (Oct 30, 2015)

Tugela said:


> If it comes with Digic 7 processors, it very likely will have nominal 4K video capability. If it comes with Digic 6 processors, like the 7D2, then it will be HD video capable only.



Sure, but flip the question to the marketing need for a moment. _Does Canon believe the 5D line needs 4K to compete?_ If the answer is yes, they'll put the right processing horsepower on board. If not, they won't.

I refuse to believe that 4K in a non-gripped FF rig is sufficiently at the bleeding edge of processing / cooling technology that if they don't pull off a processing miracle, we don't get it. It's a marketing strategy decision, plain and simple.

- A


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## Captain Marmotte (Oct 30, 2015)

SilverSnake said:


> > anti-technology flicker
> 
> 
> 
> That sounds... useful? :



It is extremely useful in some situations.


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## gggplaya (Oct 30, 2015)

Bogus because Dual Pixel CMOS and AFIII are two completely different things. Dual pixel is in the 70D and 7DMKII, and AFI,II,and III are in the APS-C rebel series sensors.


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## robinlee (Oct 30, 2015)

I'd would like to see substantial improvement on the sensor department at least 1/2 stop or closer to competition, clean low ISO on shadow and perhaps 1 stop better high ISO.

It must have better frame rate, i.e. I'm looking at around 8fps or higher.. and better buffer rate pls!!!

Anti-flickering, 1.3 and 1.6 crop mode... 

AF spread wider across the frame, -3.5EV sensitivity, more cross types, and dedicated spot metering (limited AF point)

Cfast card and XQD capability

Would be nice to have 4K video and perhaps tilt LCD... .


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## erjlphoto (Oct 30, 2015)

I heard it will have 15 stops of dynamic range.
A sensor made by Sony
Will sell for 999.00 US with three year warranty


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## Silvertt7 (Oct 30, 2015)

My neighbor's sister's brother in law's dog's best friend emailed me that the 5D IV will have the following: 

-Have wifi
-Be able to grille cheese with a perfect consistency
-Be bundled with Photoshop Elements
-Be able to be submerged in water with a depth of 1 meter for 30 minutes
-Have 19 stops of dynamic range
-Be able to cook the perfect medium rare steak
-Will have swivel screen and come with Canon's newly patented selfie extension handle
-Will have small Purell dispenser compartment, proven to be effective in killing 99.9% of bacteria 

There's more but I'm at work. Will report back with the goodies at a later time.


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## geonix (Oct 30, 2015)

I'm not much of a video shooter but I would like to know from where this confidence of canon rumors, that the 5D IV will not have 4k, comes from. 

Why not? 

If really true, I would think Canon has completely given up the DSLR video market. Or lets say the "Prosumer" video market. 
Can Canon really be so ignorant of its competitors? Sony does provide 4k in highend ff cameras as well as in bridge and compact cameras. Even Gopro and the latest toy-drohnes provide 4k. 
And I'm sure Nikon will put 4K into its D810 successor. 

So if its really true, no 4k in the 5DIV, Canon should not wonder about a continious drop in sales.


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## Don Haines (Oct 30, 2015)

I think it will have a strap that is marked 5D4, not 5D IV.......


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## Mitch.Conner (Oct 30, 2015)

unfocused said:


> Craig seems awfully confident that there will be no 4K in the 54IV.



Am I remembering incorrectly, or was it not long ago that he was confident that it would have 4k? Then all of a sudden it changed?

Maybe I'm mistaken?


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## MrToes (Oct 30, 2015)

Canon better have something for the D810 or it will be an epic fail


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## PureClassA (Oct 31, 2015)

Don wins CR Forum today.



Don Haines said:


> I think it will have a strap that is marked 5D4, not 5D IV.......


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## PureClassA (Oct 31, 2015)

Aaaaand AMEN. While I'm perhaps not AS confident as before it will see 4k, it's certainly not ruled out. This camera is still in development (we can debate what PHASE) but nothing is written in stone yet. I still don't think Canon let's a new generation of 5 bodies go without what is now seemingly so standard a feature in that price range. I think it would be an error. Whether they go split line or single 5 body is another topic.



Mitch.Conner said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Craig seems awfully confident that there will be no 4K in the 54IV.
> ...


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## ahsanford (Oct 31, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> Aaaaand AMEN. While I'm perhaps not AS confident as before it will see 4k, it's certainly not ruled out. This camera is still in development (we can debate what PHASE) but nothing is written in stone yet. I still don't think Canon let's a new generation of 5 bodies go without what is now seemingly so standard a feature in that price range. I think it would be an error. Whether they go split line or single 5 body is another topic.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I still think 4k will be onboard one day one and no one will know. It will be launched as a 1080 rig to protect Cinema EOS / 1D X II sales, and if there really is a mutiny (or tepid sales) because of its omission, pow -- firmware unlocks 4K and everyone's happy.

- A


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## ERHP (Oct 31, 2015)

MrToes said:


> Canon better have something for the D810 or it will be an epic fail



Meeting the 810 specs would effectively be a fail. It will need to surpass them.


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## douglaurent (Oct 31, 2015)

I will keep my 1DC and 5DsR as specialty cameras and all Canon lenses, while using A7R2 and A7S2 as main cameras. Which basically means I don't really care anymore if a 5D4 has 18 or 28 megapixels, 4K or no video etc. Because of the mirror a 5D4 will be behind the Sony's in usability anyway, as filming through the viewfinder with focus peaking is not possible for example.

Now WITH 4K i might buy a 5D4 nevertheless. Without definitely NOT. Why should i buy a camera model of the years 2016-2020 that has photo and video resolution of the year 2008? Without 4K in a 5D4, it wouldn't care too much, as that's Canon's problem not getting my money. It just hurts to see if Canon continues the path of artificially limiting it's products to protect their other lineups.


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## Don Haines (Oct 31, 2015)

Calm down people....

"Most Likely Bogus"

CR0

Nothing to see here..... move along..... nothing to get upset about.....


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## ahsanford (Oct 31, 2015)

luminaeus said:


> All this speculation aside, the cold hard truth is that nobody is going to buy the 5D4 unless there are improvements in DR and it can shoot 4K. Those are the two things the 5D3 can't do. People were willing to drop $4k for a 5DsR because 50mp is a lot of resolution.
> *
> Nobody is going to drop $4k for what would essentially be a 5Ds with less resolution.* We know this. Canon knows this. Canon knows that the 5D4 is an EXTREMELY important camera for their company, possibly the most important camera they will ever make.
> 
> They will not ****** it up. I hope.



Disagree. If the 5D4 looked like the following:

28-32 MP
8-9 FPS
1DX II AF system
Spot metering at any AF point
+1 stop high ISO over the 5D3
Wireless flash controller on board

I would consider paying $4k for it. There's more to this world than pixels, DR, and 4K video. 

- A


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## Adelino (Oct 31, 2015)

The anti technology flicker could come in handy when you just want to enjoy a quite weekend.


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## Adelino (Oct 31, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > For general users who buy the 7D2: Yes, FF rigs -- esp. the 6D or 6D2 down the road -- will certainly poach _general_ (non-action) shooters from the 7D2 pool, but Canon is ecstatic about that as EF lenses cost more than EF-S lenses.
> ...


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## siegsAR (Oct 31, 2015)

OPG said:


>



The reason why there's still no concrete 5D4 spec. is because Canon hadn't made up its mind on what sensor to use. They're more likely to wait until 2018 for their foveon-like sensor than to use Exmor on their dslr. Does this mean we won't be seeing the 1DX2 and 5D4 til then? Who knows. Expect no big improvement sensor wise from Canon dslrs until they drop their Bayer sensor. FF mirrorless? There's none!

CR0

 ;D ;D


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## ahsanford (Oct 31, 2015)

siegsAR said:


> The reason why there's still no concrete 5D4 spec. is because Canon hadn't made up its mind on what sensor to use. They're more likely to wait until 2018 for their foveon-like sensor than to use Exmor on their dslr. Does this mean we won't be seeing the 1DX2 and 5D4 til then? Who knows. Expect no big improvement sensor wise from Canon dslrs until they drop their Bayer sensor. FF mirrorless? There's none!



We will see new line-leading FF rigs for the 1D and 5D in 2016, I am just about certain:


Plain and simple, the cycle time is consistent with prior releases in this class, and Canon is nothing if not consistent.


The 5DS does not change the timing of the 5D4. The move to 50 MP rigs represented a _first_ step towards specializing FF rigs for different needs -- we know there is a high MP model, we know a general workhorse model is coming in the 5D4 and there very well could be a video-specific 5D offering. Consider: only the studio/landscape crowd truly got geeked about the 5DS platform -- it's a fine platform, don't misread me, but many folks (like myself) are sticking with their 5D3 rigs and eagerly await the 5D4 because other variables -- high ISO performance in general, but higher DR, the 1DX II AF system, higher FPS, etc. are huge wants from the Canon community.



That Sony 42MP BSI sensor is 99% likely going into a Nikon SLR, and soon. That rig will _not_ be a resolution / 'good light' / studio or tripod specialist like the 5DS rigs are. Other than sports/wildlife work, that rig will be a formidable do-everything flagship-level non-gripped rig, i.e. a staple professional tool. Canon needs to respond with a workhorse 9-out-of-10-at-everything non-gripped camera.



There are added threats to Canon's core professional users today than there were 3 years ago when the 5D3 was released. It's not just Canon v. Nikon. Sony isn't stealing away professionals left and right that forum-dwelling-enthusiasts would have you believe, but they are growing in stature, portfolio size, and technical capabilities. Further, Canon is facing overwhelming feature-per-dollar pressure on the video front at this price level: Canon's *non*-Cinema-EOS dollars have so many more options for less cost than they did 3 years ago. And let's not forget that Pentax is joining the FF SLR space, and they tend to pack a TON of tech for the dollar into their rigs. Canon needs to quell any defections with updates to their major FF lines relatively soon.

So, the TLR version: my money's on some major FF announcements in 2016. 

- A


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## [email protected] (Nov 1, 2015)

douglaurent said:


> All this speculation aside, the cold hard truth is that nobody is going to buy the 5D4 unless there are improvements in DR and it can shoot 4K. Those are the two things the 5D3 can't do. People were willing to drop $4k for a 5DsR because 50mp is a lot of resolution.
> Nobody is going to drop $4k for what would essentially be a 5Ds with less resolution. We know this. Canon knows this. Canon knows that the 5D4 is an EXTREMELY important camera for their company, possibly the most important camera





luminaeus said:


> Why should i buy a camera model of the years 2016-2020 that has photo and video resolution of the year 2008? Without 4K in a 5D4, it wouldn't care too much, as that's Canon's problem not getting my money. It just hurts to see if Canon continues the path of artificially limiting it's products to protect their other lineups.



100% agree with both of you guys. 

But with people like the next quote below, Canon will never do anything to improve their camera (I won't speak about innovation, because 4K and DR we have this since two years, so that would be a basic nothing else) if they have cows like this ready to throw 4K$ for 1 stop of low light better than a 5DIII just because there is a Canon sticker...
4K is standard. If Canon wants to make 5DIV a great Camera competitive and so on it should have all the specs below + 4K +14 stops DR + touchscreen (desactivable) with innovative ergonomics + slow mo + good codecs. That's the minimum. Anything less than this is a wish from Canon to cripple the cam, for whatever reason. 



ahsanford said:


> Disagree. If the 5D4 looked like the following:
> 
> 28-32 MP
> 8-9 FPS
> ...


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## Tugela (Nov 2, 2015)

StudentOfLight said:


> Tugela said:
> 
> 
> > If it comes with Digic 7 processors, it very likely will have nominal 4K video capability. If it comes with Digic 6 processors, like the 7D2, then it will be HD video capable only.
> ...



1D-C uses an unorthodox codec. Newer cameras will use hardware encoding to be compatible with existing NLEs, and that means the logic that is built into the Digic 6 (HD at best) or Digic 7 (4K at best), both with H.264 encoders.


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## luminaeus (Nov 2, 2015)

douglaurent said:


> Why should i buy a camera model of the years 2016-2020 that has photo and video resolution of the year 2008? Without 4K in a 5D4, it wouldn't care too much, as that's Canon's problem not getting my money.



That's the key right there. The 5D Mark IV isn't just a 2016 camera, it's a four year camera. It needs to demolish the competition in 2016 and continue to be a solid workhorse in 2020 just like the 5D Mark III is today and the 5D Mark II was in 2012. What will Sony, Nikon, Fuji, Olympus, and Panasonic be putting out in 2020?

4K will be a standard feature in all but the cheapest cameras. Same goes for dynamic range, 14 stops will be the minimum. Premium mirrorless cameras will make 10 fps look slow. Mirrorless cameras will ditch the mechanical shutter and we'll start to see 20, 25, 30 frames per second burst rates by 2020. Processing power will be bumped up with new chips for even better autofocus and tracking.

So yeah, the 5D Mark IV has to be excellent. Either that, or Canon will have to commit to a faster development cycle. There's no way an incremental upgrade to a 2012 camera is going to be competitive in 2020.


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## arthurbikemad (Nov 2, 2015)

Mirrorless cameras have a long way to go before ai buy one, missing focus is the main thing that pisses me off with any camera, playing with the Sony was dissapointing for me, great camera but misses focus one time too many, plus the EVF is just not for me at all over a DSLR, speed is what I want, that and IQ, plus low noise....and so on, plus simple fingertip control, that's what a lot of mirror less seem to lack IMO, think Nikon take the good from some of the hi res Sony stuff and package it into a great body. However I like the interface that Canon give the photographer.

I don't give a stuff for what maybe and I try not to hope for such goodies that the www goes on about, it's never over til the fat lady sings and when these new Cameras turn up I will be keen to see the new spec sheet... however it's good to guess lol 

So come on Mr Canon, get a shift on ;D


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## Sabaki (Nov 2, 2015)

Forgive me if I'm not 100% here but if memory serves me correctly, there were a number of negative comments about the 1DX when it launched. I remember reading about the dissatisfaction with its specs and reservations about Canon merging two camera lines into one body.

Yet today, the 1DX stands perhaps in a league all it's own. Perhaps the best camera they've ever made? I'm sure that's a contentious claim to some.

But it has me thinking, what would we want a 5DIV to deliver that peering into specifications alone won't reveal?

I'm thinking of phenomenon like banding, 'cleanliness' at base ISO, 'cleanliness' at say ISO 6400, handling of reds, greens, yellows, drawing of detail in shadow areas.

Aside from pixel count and processing, what other aspects will make a 5DIV produce better images at the end of the day?


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## privatebydesign (Nov 2, 2015)

Sabaki said:


> Forgive me if I'm not 100% here but if memory serves me correctly, there were a number of negative comments about the 1DX when it launched. I remember reading about the dissatisfaction with its specs and reservations about Canon merging two camera lines into one body.
> 
> Yet today, the 1DX stands perhaps in a league all it's own. Perhaps the best camera they've ever made? I'm sure that's a contentious claim to some.



I was very down about Canon dropping the 1DS series, and the 1DX did nothing for 1DS MkIII owners, indeed most of them went to 5D MkIII's and now 5DS/R's.

The 1 series merger dumped a lot of photographers, indeed Canon rather hurt themselves with that approach because people that were happy to buy $7,000 cameras either bought $2,800 cameras or did what I did and didn't upgrade. I am a working pro using 7 year old cameras because Canon have not given me an option to yet.

As a generalist 18mp was never going to cut it, it still doesn't. Give me a 1DX MkII with 24mp and the same specs as currently, or even better stick a tweaked 50mp 5DSR sensor in there and give me 8 fps and I'd be very happy.


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## Don Haines (Nov 2, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> Sabaki said:
> 
> 
> > Forgive me if I'm not 100% here but if memory serves me correctly, there were a number of negative comments about the 1DX when it launched. I remember reading about the dissatisfaction with its specs and reservations about Canon merging two camera lines into one body.
> ...


and this brings home a point that so many of us overlook..... it does not matter how good the camera (or lens) is, if you can't afford to buy it then it may as well not exist. Price is a very important specification.....


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## ahsanford (Nov 2, 2015)

Sabaki said:


> Forgive me if I'm not 100% here but if memory serves me correctly, there were a number of negative comments about the 1DX when it launched. I remember reading about the dissatisfaction with its specs and reservations about Canon merging two camera lines into one body.



I don't believe either the 1D4 or 1Ds3 camp ever 'forgave' Canon for merging the lines. There, of all places, you don't offer one camera to rule them all. It was a terrible decision for photographers.

The 1Ds3 camp -- one would assume were principally the studio/landscape crowd -- were the *detail* crowd, and the 1DX was a step _down_ for them in resolution. That camp has been screaming for more pixels in a 1D sized/featured rig for a very long time, and now much choose between the 1D-level feature set & ergonomics or a high MP camera.. 

The 1D4 crowd was the *speed* rig for action/wildlife/birding, yet despite the nice bump in FPS, they lost reach going from a 1.3x crop to a 1.0x crop. So those action shooters had to buy even longer big white lenses. Ouch.

Of all the market segments where there should be specialized bodies, the highest end needs them the most. It stands to reason that Canon should go back to a detail/studio/landscape high MP rig and a speed/action/wildlife rig. The 5D line is getting that, after all -- why shouldn't the top end have that choice as well?

- A


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## unfocused (Nov 2, 2015)

Sabaki said:


> Forgive me if I'm not 100% here but if memory serves me correctly, there were a number of negative comments about the 1DX when it launched. I remember reading about the dissatisfaction with its specs and reservations about Canon merging two camera lines into one body.



It's not just the 1Dx. Every camera Canon releases is always met by complaints from internet forum experts.

People complained that the original 7D was too expensive for a crop camera.

Then they complained that the 60D didn't have all the features of the 7D for half the cost.

When the 5DIII came out, there were complaints about the cost and the small change in megapixels.

When the 6D was released, there were lots of complaints that it was overpriced and under spec'd.

Yet, all these cameras have sold better than their competition. In fact the 7D has so dominated its market niche that Nikon hasn't even attempted to produce a competitor and the 6D was long the best-selling full frame DSLR on the market. 

What is consistent is that once the cameras get in the hands of actual users, those users tend to love the cameras.



Sabaki said:


> But it has me thinking, what would we want a 5DIV to deliver that peering into specifications alone won't reveal?



This is where Canon excels. Once you get beyond spec sheets and look at the actual performance of their cameras in the field, the consistently perform well above their competition. The result: people on internet forums are reduced to whining about insignificant differences and scouring spec sheets to find things to complain about, while the rest of us happily click away.


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## ahsanford (Nov 2, 2015)

unfocused said:


> Sabaki said:
> 
> 
> > But it has me thinking, what would we want a 5DIV to deliver that peering into specifications alone won't reveal?
> ...



Agree. We all get hung up with 1-2 features/performance metrics (for sensors: pixels and DR, for lenses: sharpness and max aperture, for videographers: it's 4K or F U) and lose the forest for the trees in search of 'more' in just those areas.

Great examples of Canon wisely giving those people the finger with something different:


The announcement of a 24-70 f/*4*L IS caused the internet to break for a while. Yet that lens offers an unheard of 0.7x max mag to go along with a peach of a standard zoom for FF -- light, sharp, IS, sealed, etc. It's a stellar tool.


For all the hemming and hawing about the 5D3 not getting a higher MP sensor, Canon solved the #1 problem with the 5D2 by dropping the world class 1DX AF system into it. Yahtzee. (Anyone complaining about the 5D3 AF system is hereby sentenced to _shooting for a week with a 5D2_.)


Everyone angry as heck that the 7D2 was only 20 MP are now armed with a 1DX-like AF system, 10 fps burst and huge buffer are reeling in all sort of lovely bird/animal/sports shots. Nikon crop folks with fancier sensors can only hope their lower framerate and iffy AF won't let them down when the eagle grabs the fish. Nothing stacks up to the 7D2 unless you have the dollars for the 1DX + the most expensive glass.

I don't mean to be a Canon populist here -- there are boatloads of opportunities for their gear to improve. But Canon has a sterling track record of small, pleasant surprises and gear that doesn't drop the ball. I'll take that over a scorching hot spec sheet that never truly delivers any day.

- A


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## Don Haines (Nov 2, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Sabaki said:
> ...


You missed what I consider to be the best reason to buy Canon..... it works with no surprises.....


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## ahsanford (Nov 2, 2015)

Don Haines said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > I don't mean to be a Canon populist here -- there are boatloads of opportunities for their gear to improve. But Canon has a sterling track record of small, pleasant surprises and gear that doesn't drop the ball. I'll take that over a scorching hot spec sheet that never truly delivers any day.
> ...



Nonsense. Red. Above. 

- A


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## Sporgon (Nov 2, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> The announcement of a 24-70 f/*4*L IS caused the internet to break for a while. Yet that lens offers an unheard of 0.7x max mag to go along with a peach of a standard zoom for FF -- light, sharp, IS, sealed, etc. It's a stellar tool.
> 
> 
> For all the hemming and hawing about the 5D3 not getting a higher MP sensor, Canon solved the #1 problem with the 5D2 by dropping the world class 1DX AF system into it. Yahtzee. (Anyone complaining about the 5D3 AF system is hereby sentenced to _shooting for a week with a 5D2_.)
> ...



You missed the 70-300L. That lens was met with howls of derision, yet it soon became a well respected lens from those that used it. How about the 35/2 IS ? "But it's just the old one with the addition of IS" ! 

When Nikon introduced the battery powered F3 that camera was met by the then equivalent of Internet forum participants, letter writers, with howls of derision too. It went on to become one of the most respected cameras in history. 

The Nikon FM, introduced in 1976, "the worst camera ever produced by Nikon". It went on to be one the longest production cameras in history, through the FM, to the FM3a. 

So yes, letter writers and Internet experts tend to be looking for something different to your common or garden users.


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## ahsanford (Nov 2, 2015)

Sporgon said:


> How about the 35/2 IS ? "But it's just the old one with the addition of IS" !



Yep, I love those 24/28/35 IS refresh lenses -- anyone calling those 'the same old lenses with IS' has clearly never used either the new or the old versions and is simply rendering judgment off of the max aperture of both generations of lenses. 

I want one of those IS refresh lenses in a 50mm so so so bad.

- A


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## Sporgon (Nov 2, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> I want one of those IS refresh lenses in a 50mm so so so bad.
> 
> - A



I think Canon must be brewing something really special up on that 

And when they do I insist you post a selfie opening the box ;D


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## ahsanford (Nov 2, 2015)

Sporgon said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > I want one of those IS refresh lenses in a 50mm so so so bad.
> ...



A selfie will not be possible when that happens. Here's what will happen.

- A


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## roxics (Nov 2, 2015)

I'm convinced that Canon only cares about its competition with Nikon when it comes to its DSLRs. The 5D4 will have 4K if Canon believes Nikon will add 4K. Otherwise they have their Cinema series of cameras for you to pick from.


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## Don Haines (Nov 2, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



Obviously, I am capable of reading something while not seeing what I am reading  I stand corrected!


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## pedro (Nov 3, 2015)

Well, someone somewhere in a thread or was it this one, mentioned an increase of 1 stop in high ISO IQ. Well, the experts here would doubt the likeliness of such a huge step in RAW.

My wishful thinking about a next 5D body is: Should Canon come anywhere close to this one stop in high ISO improvement I'm gonna be fine with that. Hope they don't add to many MP. 22-24 plus some real enhancement in sensor tech would do for me. But other wise men here say, this would take a whole new sensor production line. Still, I'd wish to see some 6400ish ISO 12800,...

Time will tell...


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## luminaeus (Nov 3, 2015)

roxics said:


> I'm convinced that Canon only cares about its competition with Nikon when it comes to its DSLRs. The 5D4 will have 4K if Canon believes Nikon will add 4K. Otherwise they have their Cinema series of cameras for you to pick from.



The Sony hype train was derailed by the a7R II. Too many features in too small of a body and you end up with something that you would never trust for paid work. And that's just the immediate issues. I'm curious to see how many of those a7 bodies will still be functioning in five years.

Canon knows those people will come back around for the 5D4 and 1DX2.

That said, I expect to see 4K and higher DR in the 5D4 and 1DX2. No 4k in 2015 is okay, but this camera is for 2016 to 2020.


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## Don Haines (Nov 3, 2015)

pedro said:


> Well, someone somewhere in a thread or was it this one, mentioned an increase of 1 stop in high ISO IQ. Well, the experts here would doubt the likeliness of such a huge step in RAW.
> 
> My wishful thinking about a next 5D body is: Should Canon come anywhere close to this one stop in high ISO improvement I'm gonna be fine with that. Hope they don't add to many MP. 22-24 plus some real enhancement in sensor tech would do for me. But other wise men here say, this would take a whole new sensor production line. Still, I'd wish to see some 6400ish ISO 12800,...
> 
> Time will tell...


The 5D3 sensor has a quantum efficiency of 51%.... The 7D2 is at 59%..... a good guess for the 5D4 would be 62 or 63%.... call that a quarter stop more light.....

Looking at read noise, we have:
5D - 4.2
5D2 - 3.0
5D3 - 2.4
6D - 1.6
It is a good bet that the 5D4 will have read noise somewhere around 1.3 or 1.4....... almost a stop less noise.

I think it is quite possible that the 5D4 (assuming the same or similar pixel count as the 5D3) will have an additional stop of ISO performance....


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## ahsanford (Nov 3, 2015)

roxics said:


> I'm convinced that Canon only cares about its competition with Nikon when it comes to its DSLRs. The 5D4 will have 4K if Canon believes Nikon will add 4K. Otherwise they have their Cinema series of cameras for you to pick from.



With that thinking, we'd already have a 24-70 f/2.8L IS, a crop mode on our FF cameras, and pop-up flashes in the 6D. 

We don't clone that much of what they do. 

- A


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## Sinjunb (Nov 5, 2015)

The 5d Mk. 4 is going to have 4k video. How anyone thinks otherwise is insane to me, every single camera at this price range and far lower that's released within the last 1-2 years has 4k. Canon is not going to sabotage their own flagship product just to get marginally more sales on the 1DX-2, anyone who can afford that camera in the first place would get it regardless of what the 5d Mk. 4 specs are.


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## StudentOfLight (Nov 6, 2015)

Sinjunb said:


> The 5d Mk. 4 is going to have 4k video. How anyone thinks otherwise is insane to me, *every single camera at this price range and far lower that's released within the last 1-2 years has 4k*. Canon is not going to sabotage their own flagship product just to get marginally more sales on the 1DX-2, anyone who can afford that camera in the first place would get it regardless of what the 5d Mk. 4 specs are.


Are you sure about that?
Nikon Df - announced Nov-2013
Nikon D4s - announced Feb-2014
Nikon D810 - announced Jun-2014
Nikon D810A - announced Feb-2015


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## ahsanford (Nov 6, 2015)

StudentOfLight said:


> Sinjunb said:
> 
> 
> > The 5d Mk. 4 is going to have 4k video. How anyone thinks otherwise is insane to me, *every single camera at this price range and far lower that's released within the last 1-2 years has 4k*. Canon is not going to sabotage their own flagship product just to get marginally more sales on the 1DX-2, anyone who can afford that camera in the first place would get it regardless of what the 5d Mk. 4 specs are.
> ...



Yep. 

And don't larger sensors have more pixel binning work to do? I seem to recall A7 rigs shooting 4K getting crazy hot during use. Perhaps it's easier to deliver 4K in smaller sensors (like the Panasonic GH4) as there's less pixel-level lifting to do?

(Someone please straighten me out on this -- I'm very poorly read on these matters.)

- A


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## Don Haines (Nov 6, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > Sinjunb said:
> ...


My suspicion is that heat is the only reason why we don't have 4K video yet from a Canon.....

Look at the 7D2..... certainly the processing power to do it, but at what cost? I think that Canon will need a dedicated video codec chip to give decent 4K video at a reasonable frame rate without melting down the camera or burning through battery life....


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## StudentOfLight (Nov 6, 2015)

Don Haines said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > StudentOfLight said:
> ...


On one of Max Yurev's youtube videos (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_jzBpXu6WQ) he suggested that it may be the sensor-based IS that contributes to the overheating issue on the high-pixel-density A7R-II. He said that it's possible that they can't have an effective heat sink with the moving sensor. Seems a plausible explanation. The 4K over heating problems don't seem to be there on the the A7S-II (low pixel density) or the Samsung NX1 which Yurev has been shooting with for quite some time year.


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## tcmatthews (Nov 6, 2015)

Don Haines said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > StudentOfLight said:
> ...



I think the processor is not the bottleneck it is the IO bus. They need to implement a bus that supports USB 3 and SATA/PCIe. Until then none of their cameras can have 4k. It will take this to support CFast and UHSII SD. I think that Canon would be foolish to announce a camera that lacks USB3, UHSII SD/CFast or equivalent support. But SD cards are getting fast enough that there may be no reason for CFast at this time.


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## Muttonhead (Nov 8, 2015)

OK I'll take a fun stab at this guessing game.

Canon needs to make a much bigger leap this time around with the Mark IV, like from the 5D Classic to the MKII. That was a 60% increase in res, as well as a significant increase in performance. I also don't buy the argument regarding no 4K. There was no concern regarding robbing sales from their higher end cameras when they introduced the MKII with 1080P. The reality is 4K is now the new 1080P. I don't think they have a choice. 4k Blu-ray is now in stores, TV prices are way down, content is getting up there. More and more clients are going to be demanding it. A 5DMKIV with just 1080P will be an absolute snore...

Frame rate could remain the same without any problem, however that might be difficult with a big jump in resolution. 39.3MP would be a good start to say that they are really trying to compete with the D800, and it would work well with 4K. Although I guess that was what the 5DS/R was intended for, so I'm probably wrong on the resolution. Pricing will also be a challenge since the 5DS is at $3700USD, and should drop with time. Canon increased prices significantly on the last subsequent model jump to MKIII. Probably not in a position to do that this time.

I'm not sure why I'm not excited about the 5DS/R. It really seemed like a quickly thrown together desperation move. I don't feel the urge to run out buy one.

What are you going to offer up Canon in order to convince me to drop my 5DMKIII for that kind of money in the current field of competition?


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## DCP (Nov 23, 2015)

Anyone have the latest on the 5D4 specs, any more recent than a month ago?


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## jrista (Nov 26, 2015)

Rumor mill has been pretty slow on the DSLR front lately. I don't really care about specs so much, however I am very interested in a release date. My 5D III is LOOOONG in the tooth, and all the extensive hours I've used it for astrophotography, it's taken quite a few cosmic ray hits and has often operated at pretty high temperatures. That's increased hot pixel counts and it seems to be a bit noisier on average than before. Really need to get a replacement for it soon, and since I'm tethered to an EF 600mm f/4 L II, I really need a quality Canon camera with good frame rate and high resolution to replace it with.


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## Maximilian (Nov 26, 2015)

jrista said:


> Rumor mill has been pretty slow on the DSLR front lately. I don't really care about specs so much, however I am very interested in a release date. My 5D III is LOOOONG in the tooth, and all the extensive hours I've used it for astrophotography, it's taken quite a few cosmic ray hits and has often operated at pretty high temperatures. That's increased hot pixel counts and it seems to be a bit noisier on average than before. Really need to get a replacement for it soon, and since I'm tethered to an EF 600mm f/4 L II, I really need a quality Canon camera with good frame rate and high resolution to replace it with.


Hi Jon! 

A little bit OT but did you let Canon do a recalibration of the sensor?
I don't know if that works for you and your astro shooting. 
But I've recognized after some time of "normal" shooting an increase of red/hot pixels. 
After sending it in and recalibration they were gone. So that worked for me. 
Of course my exposure times get only up to several seconds but not as long as yours.
And of course a new camera is always better


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