# Time to replace "Mirrorless"?! (camera description term / wording)



## pj1974 (Jul 6, 2018)

Hi All

Over recent months I have been thinking that another word (or phrase) should be used, to replace 'Mirrorless'.
I love my DSLR cameras (and have several) - so no need to turn this thread into a debate about DSLR vs Mirrorless... there have been plenty of them on Canon Rumors! ;D

The main reasons why I believe we (and the photographic industry and including all photographers and hobbiests) should consider 'loosing' the mirrorless term include (but are not limited to) :

Mirrorless is a potentially negatively phrased ("oh no, it is missing a mirror"!) a positive descriptor is more powerful
Over time, the 'mirror' of DSLR (and SLR) cameras will be forgotten / redundant [Compare to 'horseless carriage' used to describe early vehicles
Confusion between earlier, and current smaller digital cameras (e.g. digital P&S), which were always "mirrorless"

So, the main word/s I suggest we use to replace the word "mirrorless" include:

Live Sensor
Sensor-driven
On-sensor

I also think we use a more appropriate word to 'interchangeable' (why have a 5 syllable word, when a shorter one might do ???) The best / main word/s I have to replace "interchangeable" include:

Changeable
Non-fixed

I have been creating _*LOTS *_of potential replacements for the currently accepted "Mirrorless interchangeable lens camera" (MILC). _That combination of letters as an abbreviation is problematic in itself... (we won't go there!)_ So I have considered what the abbreviation letters also look and sound like, pronounced.
Out of the many combinations I have compiled, the best ones include:


Changeable Lens On-sensor Camera (CLOC)
On-sensor Changeable Lens Camera (OCLC)
Changeable Lens Live Sensor Camera (CLLSC)
Live Sensor Changeable Lens Camera (LSCLC)
Sensor Driven Changeable Lens Camera (SDCLC)

I look forward to your votes, comments, opinions and discussion.
And just, to point out the obvious "YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST" (and I will collect royalties from each use of the agreed term, from now into the future.. I'm gonna be RICH!) 8)

PJ1974


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## takesome1 (Jul 6, 2018)

Just call them "Live View" cameras.
Shooting in "Live View" without the mirror is what Canon Bodies have been doing for almost a decade.

FWIW you get nothing for this one.


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## Ah-Keong (Jul 6, 2018)

How about DSLM?

Digital Single Lens Mirror-less


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## slclick (Jul 6, 2018)

I remember my first Mirrorless, it was called a pinhole and I had to change the paper out in a dark bag, maybe about 1 frame per 5 minutes.


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## Aglet (Jul 6, 2018)

I think we'll just call them "cameras" ;D

we'll eventually call DSLRs "mirror-slappers" or "dino-cams" or some other derogatory term in a few years.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 6, 2018)

pj1974 said:


> Changeable Lens On-sensor Camera (CLOC)



Wickedly Awesome Thing for Capturing H-nu (WATCH)

;D


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## Fleetie (Jul 6, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> pj1974 said:
> 
> 
> > Changeable Lens On-sensor Camera (CLOC)
> ...



When backronym-creation gets desperate:

photon energy E = h.v ; v=Greek letter "nu", i.e. frequency


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## jolyonralph (Jul 6, 2018)

Compact System Cameras is generally the term being used. Except for those that aren't compact of course


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## BeenThere (Jul 6, 2018)

EVF Camera or EVIL for electronic view, Interchangeable Lens.


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## Ozarker (Jul 6, 2018)

Light Reading Pixel Array = LuRPA

Zeptosecond Apprehension Device = ZAD

Slice of Life = SoL


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## fullstop (Jul 6, 2018)

DISSS cameras.  ;D

Digital Intelligent Solid State System Cameras.


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## dak723 (Jul 6, 2018)

How about we just call them all cameras?

When I bought my first digital camera, it was a Kodak and I didn't care one iota whether it had a mirror or not.
When I bought my first DSLR it was the Canon EOS Rebel and I didn't care one iota whether it had a mirror or not.
When I bought my next camera it was the Canon 6D and I didn't care one iota whether it had a mirror or not.
Not long after, when I realized I need a crop camera, too, I bought an Olympus E-M1 and I didn't care one iota whether it had a mirror or not.
When I sold my 6D and was looking for something smaller, I bought an M5 and I didn't care one iota whether it had a mirror or not.
Not sure what my next camera will be, but I know that it will be a camera (and not a smartphone) and I won't care one iota whether it has a mirror or not.


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## andrei1989 (Jul 6, 2018)

seems to me like you found a solution to a problem no one had


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## stevelee (Jul 6, 2018)

dak723 said:


> I didn't care one iota whether it had a mirror or not.



Photographing vampires would be the main application where it would matter. With a DSLR, you can't see them in the OVF, so you need to use (ironically) live view. A mirrorless camera might not have the problem, but it also doesn't let you know whether the person you are photographing is a vampire. So each kind of camera has its own advantage.


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## ahsanford (Jul 6, 2018)

Photon Harvester. 

Sounds way more science fiction that way.

- A


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## Pookie (Jul 6, 2018)

It is called and has been called for years... Leica.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 6, 2018)

The discussion went on for a couple of years before referring to them as MILC cameras. Thats pretty well accepted by now.


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## Hillsilly (Jul 7, 2018)

stevelee said:


> Photographing vampires would be the main application where it would matter.


I went to a vampire shoot a few months ago. I took a mirrorless camera for the reason you mentioned - I was worried I couldn't focus using a mirror. And it worked well. The camera focused perfectly on the subjects and most of the photos came out fine.

Back to the original question, I prefer "camera", too. This is only really an issue for online retailers and how they categorize their stock, anyway. Even on forums like this, general topics such as "DSLR vs Mirrorless" are often meaningless. But when things start getting specific, such 5D vs a7R, we can discuss real world differences and we're all knowledgeable enough to know what a Sony a7Riii is - there's no need to add mirrorless to the description.


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## Rocky (Jul 7, 2018)

Pookie said:


> It is called and has been called for years... Leica.


May be we should try another name: McLeica


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## pj1974 (Jul 8, 2018)

Hello Everyone

Original Poster (OP) here... I genuinely appreciate the input and replies... the serious takes on the question, the humour (life is lived well when frequented by lots of laughs!), the creative input and the intelligence on display. 8)

I do agree that there is a broader definition (and categorisation) where 'camera' is good enough. However, as many of us here on CR Forums, also appreciate the "taxonomy" of light / photon gathering devices, and therefore it is useful to have a further distinction between types of cameras (e.g. fixed lens, 'interchangeable lens', mirror, vs those without a mirror, etc).

We do not represent the majority of people who take photos / with a camera (the majority of people taking photos are smart-phone owners anyway)!  At present it indeed appears that 'mirrorless' will stay around for a while - though I expect sometime in the future, the term will become less meaningful, and will possibly be changed... This thread is a decent testimony to 'we never know what the future holds'!

In any case, I look forward to photography's future ... of both 'mirrored' (DSLR) and 'mirrorless' (MILC and other 'non-interchangeable lens cameras).
I use several different models of Canon DSLRs (the older ones used for certain projects, e.g. timelapse, cycling, camping & bush-walking outings, etc) My main current DSLR is the 80D, and the camera I use for most of my photography at this time.
My main 'mirrorless' camera is the M5 (I also have a M10, which I use when requiring a super compact kit). My mobile / smart-phone gets occasional use as a camera, but not for the 'serious' stuff! The M5 is versatile, and once I configured it to my liking, makes an awesome travel option. Having already secured a bunch of good lenses really makes it a versatile, convenient, very transportable kit. (My 'mirrorless' lenses include: the Canon 22mm f/2, Samyang 12mm f/2, Canon 18-150mm & Canon 15-45mm).

Very much anticipating Canon bringing us exciting offerings in mirrorless in the near future. I love my M5, and the M50 indicated to me the EOM future is looking positive... and bright!

Best wishes

PJ


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## slclick (Jul 9, 2018)

Yeah, why rebrand something new?


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## DJL329 (Jul 17, 2018)

Let's not forget: before being called "cars," they were known as:

Horseless Carriages
Motor Carriages
Motorcars

Once the mirror-less cameras replace the dSLR cameras, they'll just lose the "mirror-less" designation, either as just "Cameras" or MILC (since we love acronyms), as others have stated.


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## eninja (Jul 17, 2018)

DJL329 said:


> Let's not forget: before being called "cars," they were known as:
> 
> Horseless Carriages
> Motor Carriages
> ...



That would be:
Mirror-Less
Mir-Les
Les (50 years from now)

Then we will refer it to. LES - Light Editing System.
First coined here at Canon Rumors.


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## BillB (Jul 17, 2018)

Why not EVF for Electronic Viewfinder?


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## Orangutan (Jul 18, 2018)

dak723 said:


> How about we just call them all cameras?


We have rangefinders, single-lens reflex and twin-lens reflex, in addition to DSLR. Why would we make an exception and fail to differentiate mirrorless focusing systems from other focusing systems?


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## Adelino (Jul 20, 2018)

Shouldn't the D in DSLR finally be dropped? 99.99% of the time when discussing cameras people are referring to digital. We add the term film when necessary to describe a film camera because it is now unique to use film.


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## tpatana (Jul 20, 2018)

Ah-Keong said:


> How about DSLM?
> 
> Digital Single Lens Mirror-less



I kinda like the DSLAM. More punch.


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## jolyonralph (Jul 20, 2018)

Why have a word for it at all? The vast majority of digital cameras are mirrorless and have been so since the 1990s. The DSLR is a niche product compared to cellphone cameras and even compared to compact cameras. 

So, a "mirrorless" camera is a normal camera. A DSLR is a camera with a mirror assembly.


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## stevelee (Jul 20, 2018)

jolyonralph said:


> Why have a word for it at all? The vast majority of digital cameras are mirrorless and have been so since the 1990s. The DSLR is a niche product compared to cellphone cameras and even compared to compact cameras.
> 
> So, a "mirrorless" camera is a normal camera. A DSLR is a camera with a mirror assembly.



Up until ten years ago, all of my cameras have been mirrorless except for the FT-QL. As a kid I used box cameras handed down through the family from the '30s and '40s. None of them had mirrors. While I now have 3 DSLRs, I continue to use my mirrorless cameras when traveling, first S95, then S120, and now G7X II. I take a lot more pictures when I travel, so probably still most of my pictures are made with mirrorless cameras. And if you add in live view on my DSLRs, those pictures and videos do not utilize a mirror anywhere in the process, so I am easily a mostly mirrorless photographer.


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## slclick (Jul 20, 2018)

LES sounds good to me, then the MILC crowd can make t shirts and mugs that say 'LES is More'. There might be a French issue however.


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## Hillsilly (Jul 21, 2018)

"MILC" kind-of sounds like a rude word (at least enough to generate some odd looks if it was on a t-shirt). But I can't see any problem with "Les".


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## YuengLinger (Jul 21, 2018)

A very good topic question, and one that marketing departments are up against.

Digital Interchangeable Lens Camera...DILC?

I suppose Digital Swappable Lens Camera is to close to dSLR? 

Maybe Swappable Lens Digital Camera? SLDC!


I don't think "sensor" has to be part of the mix, as most consumers by now assume all cameras have sensors. Film is a relic, not a compelling or widely available option.


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## CaptureWhatYouSee (Jul 21, 2018)

FEC
Fully Electric Camera


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## Rocky (Jul 22, 2018)

Just call it Mc (Mirroless camera)


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## AJ (Jul 22, 2018)

An ACTINAC

A Camera That Is Not A Cellphone


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## Ah-Keong (Jul 23, 2018)

I am using a CPLD!~ Complex Processing & Lens Device


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## bf (Jul 25, 2018)

Aglet said:


> I think we'll just call them "cameras" ;D
> 
> we'll eventually call DSLRs "mirror-slappers" or "dino-cams" or some other derogatory term in a few years.



I totally agree! At that point they will become the cameras! There is no need to invent pointless acronyms.


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## fullstop (Jul 25, 2018)

distinction will be needed for some time, as nikon officially insists that they will keep dying mirrorslappers around (for some more time) next to mirrorless cameras, giving its customers "choice between 2 systems".

i will therefore continue to use the descriptive terms "MILC" and "mirrorslappers", until the last pne of the slappers will be made. just a few more years, problem will quickly take care of itself now.


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## Ian_of_glos (Jul 25, 2018)

fullstop said:


> distinction will be needed for some time, as nikon officially insists that they will keep dying mirrorslappers around (for some more time) next to mirrorless cameras, giving its customers "choice between 2 systems".
> 
> i will therefore continue to use the descriptive terms "MILC" and "mirrorslappers", until the last pne of the slappers will be made. just a few more years, problem will quickly take care of itself now.


Maybe Nikon and Canon treat their customers with more respect than you are able to do and they probably want to offer a range products that their customers will buy. History teaches us that when companies ignore their customer's wishes inevitably they go out of business very quickly. Contrast that with your approach, where everyone must buy the product that you think is best. No doubt severe sanctions would be applied to anyone who did not comply.

Last week I tried a Sony A7 mk3, generally considered to be one of the best mirrorless cameras available at the moment. The camera is awkward and uncomfortable to hold, especially when a large lens such as the 24-70 F2.8 Gmaster is mounted. The sales assistant offered to let me try the 24-105 F4 instead because it is smaller and lighter, but I am comfortable with a Canon 24-70 F2.8 on my 5D mk4 body so why should I be expected to sacrifice a stop just so I can have a mirrorless body? Also, I did not like the electronic viewfinder. It is slow and the image is nowhere near as clear as the optical viewfinder on my 5D mk 4.

Why can't you accept that we all have different needs and preferences? I respect your decision to choose an advanced, high quality mirrorless camera so why can't you understand that some photographers prefer to use a DSLR?


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## fullstop (Jul 25, 2018)

i get it that some folks prefer large, mirrorslapping cameras. No problem. All I am saying is: I am convinced, that option will disappear quite soon. Simply, because overwhelming majority of potential customers does NOT want big, clunky mirrorslappers any longer when superior photographic capabilities, functionality and performance can be had in mirrorless cameras. 

No disrespect. Mirrorslappers have served me well. Between 1965 and 2015 they were the best option for my type of photography. Now things finally have changed for the better. Film age has ended (notwithstanding some people still enjoying chemistry-photography). Analogue age has ended (notwithstanding some folks preferring Vinyl LP). Mirrorslapping age - along with other remaining 19th century mechanical photo gear shenanigans - has ended. Solid state electronics rule supreme. Next step will be computational photography which will eliminate large ground lumps of glass in front of our cameras. More functionality in smaller, and hopefully less expensive packages [if we, the customers vehemently demand it]. What's not to like?


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