# Canon releases 2nd Quarter 2020 Financial Results



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jul 28, 2020)

> Canon Inc. has released its financial results for the 2nd quarter of 2020. The COVID-19 pandemic has obviously had a large impact on camera and lens sales, especially with the delays in launching the EOS R5 and EOS R6.
> The bolded area at the end of the statement below shows Canon will be entering or developing new spaces for imaging.
> *From Canon Presentation Material in regards to imaging:*
> As for the second quarter, due to restrictions placed on people’s movement, there was fewer image capturing opportunities, such as travel and other events. As a result, the willingness of consumers to purchase cameras dropped significantly, leading to a large decline in our sales as well.
> As for camera demand, despite the resumption of economic activity, initially in China, and now in the United States and Europe where we saw demand bottom out in April and start to improve from May, we believe it will take time for sales to recover as cameras...



Continue reading...


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## unfocused (Jul 28, 2020)

> * ...we will enhance our new concept camera initiative, which gives no regard to traditional camera concepts, as we prepare to launch the new models within this year.*




What does that mean??? Are they launching new models of concept cameras? Or are they launching new models of production cameras based on past concept cameras? 

I'm guessing it's the former. New concept cameras being previewed to grab attention but maybe nothing that will reach production.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 28, 2020)

"We are positioning ourselves to capture new demand, for example, addressing the rapidly growing demand for video meetings, we released software that allows our EOS cameras to be used as web cameras" 

Maybe they can make a web cam with a L series lens on it for the masses and finally get someone making non crap web conferencing possible.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 28, 2020)

unfocused said:


> What does that mean??? Are they launching new models of concept cameras? Or are they launching new models of production cameras based on past concept cameras?
> 
> I'm guessing it's the former. New concept cameras being previewed to grab attention but maybe nothing that will reach production.



Development preview of the R1 would make a big splash along side the 300mm f/2.8 and 500mm f/4. Showing off mirrorless tech(ok probably DO but they'll market it as mirrorless) to make those lenses more handhold able than ever..... a nice wee dream.


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## jam05 (Jul 28, 2020)

unfocused said:


> What does that mean??? Are they launching new models of concept cameras? Or are they launching new models of production cameras based on past concept cameras?
> 
> I'm guessing it's the former. New concept cameras being previewed to grab attention but maybe nothing that will reach production.


Earnings aren't based on grabing attention.


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## jam05 (Jul 28, 2020)

jam05 said:


> Earnings aren't based on grabing attention.


 EOS R cameras were concept cameras at one point. As is the Cine 12k camera at this moment.


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## unfocused (Jul 28, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> Development preview of the R1 would make a big splash along side the 300mm f/2.8 and 500mm f/4. Showing off mirrorless tech(ok probably DO but they'll market it as mirrorless) to make those lenses more handhold able than ever..... a nice wee dream.


Agreed. But none of those products would be concept cameras.

Concept cameras tend to showcase things that are many years away and unlikely to actually be a production product ever. Like the massive backpack camera Canon showed off almost a decade ago that had a 100 mp plus sensor. Or the camera they used to shoot videos of rare fireflies also a number of years back. They are analogous to the crazy concept vehicles car shows are known for, but which are never going to be actual production models.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 28, 2020)

unfocused said:


> What does that mean??? Are they launching new models of concept cameras? Or are they launching new models of production cameras based on past concept cameras?
> 
> I'm guessing it's the former. New concept cameras being previewed to grab attention but maybe nothing that will reach production.


They do not present something to stockholders unless it is going to happen. Its not PR. As to what it is, Canon has tried numerous new designs over the years, none have stuck. They will keep trying because they perceive that younger buyers want novel solutions. Vlogger cameras, webcams, smartphone add-ons, body worn cameras, dash cams, there are a lot of ways they could go.


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## BeenThere (Jul 28, 2020)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> They do not present something to stockholders unless it is going to happen. Its not PR. As to what it is, Canon has tried numerous new designs over the years, none have stuck. They will keep trying because they perceive that younger buyers want novel solutions. Vlogger cameras, webcams, smartphone add-ons, body worn cameras, dash cams, there are a lot of ways they could go.


It’s hard to compete with ubiquitous phone cams and go pros at the bottom end. What does that leave beyond higher end Cine, M, and FF MILC Plus industrial cameras.


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## unfocused (Jul 28, 2020)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> They do not present something to stockholders unless it is going to happen. Its not PR. As to what it is, Canon has tried numerous new designs over the years, none have stuck. They will keep trying because they perceive that younger buyers want novel solutions. Vlogger cameras, webcams, smartphone add-ons, body worn cameras, dash cams, there are a lot of ways they could go.


I would guess that you may be correct in that they are experimenting with concept cameras that are completely out of the traditional camera mode. I'm just curious what that might be, since it seems surprising they would reference this initiative to stockholders without providing any information about the initiative. I would not expect they would provide any information about the concept cameras themselves, but I would have thought they might explain what this new initiative is.


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## Quarkcharmed (Jul 28, 2020)

Concept cameras?
Hmm... maybe modular system with RF mount, like Phase One?


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## nchoh (Jul 28, 2020)

unfocused said:


> What does that mean??? Are they launching new models of concept cameras? Or are they launching new models of production cameras based on past concept cameras?
> 
> I'm guessing it's the former. New concept cameras being previewed to grab attention but maybe nothing that will reach production.



" We are positioning ourselves to capture new demand... "

*"Furthermore, we will enhance our new concept camera initiative, which gives no regard to traditional camera concepts, as we prepare to launch the new models within this year.* "

This being in the quarterly report, I would say, that's what Canon will do - release new concept cameras. I sounds to me that Canon has thrown their old marketing book out the window as they know their traditional camera market is quickly dwindling and they need to find new demand for their existing core products (read imaging). It is reflective that they are pulling out all stops and giving the remaining consumers everything they want in their cameras -no cripple hammer.


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## Max TT (Jul 28, 2020)

Here is an idea, how about cameras that have the necessary cooling system to match it capabilities and doesn't overheat... How about about that concept Canon!


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## TominNJ (Jul 28, 2020)

Max C said:


> Here is an idea, how about cameras that have the necessary cooling system to match it capabilities and doesn't overheat... How about about that concept Canon!



not an easy thing to do. A fan would add noise, vibration and a lot of bulk and increase power consumption. How do you ventilate the camera while keeping the dust out?


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## TominNJ (Jul 28, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Concept cameras?
> Hmm... maybe modular system with RF mount, like Phase One?



speculation: 

a macro specialty camera with focus bracketing and compositing built into it

a high fps camera for slow motion stuff

a time lapse camera

a camera disguised as a coffee cup for street photography


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## SteveC (Jul 28, 2020)

TominNJ said:


> not an easy thing to do. A fan would add noise, vibration and a lot of bulk and increase power consumption. How do you ventilate the camera while keeping the dust out?



It can be done, by moving the heat to a plate outside the sealed area, and ventilating that with a fan. Imagine a built-in grip (a la the 1 series) that has fans in it, blowing air along what would otherwise be the bottom of the camera. 

But that wouldn't, by itself, solve the noise and vibration issues with a fan.


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## amorse (Jul 28, 2020)

Very interesting. I keep coming back to a few different rumours on the note of different concept cameras coming.

That note of another RF mount camera coming this year in addition to adapters for PL indicate a video-focused camera is coming. Part of me wonders if they have a different form factor in mind for that 45MP 8K sensor which blurs the line a bit more between video camera and stills, and enables additional additional cooling. 

I guess we'll see more come fall!


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## nchoh (Jul 28, 2020)

Max C said:


> Here is an idea, how about cameras that have the necessary cooling system to match it capabilities and doesn't overheat... How about about that concept Canon!



Sony did it... kind of,... by reducing the capabilities to 12 MP. I guess it is not possible to do it with a weather sealed, ergonomic, 45 MP camera.


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## dwarven (Jul 28, 2020)

Hmm, I have a feeling it will just be Canon and Sony duking it out for the remaining shares of the ILC market. I love Nikon, but I don’t see them surviving for a lot longer.


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## cornieleous (Jul 28, 2020)

Max C said:


> Here is an idea, how about cameras that have the necessary cooling system to match it capabilities and doesn't overheat... How about about that concept Canon!


 You really don't let up do you. Go buy the Sony and enjoy your life! Or do you just like to be angry?

These 5 and 6 product lines have ALWAYS been stills centric cameras first, and so the few compromises were pushed onto video which will suit casual use for most of us just fine. In the real world, it still remains to be seen how bad the problem even is.

Anyone who wants to film long times in high bit rates on full frame for a cheap price is being completely self absorbed and ignoring physics and the fact these companies are business, not a charity or servant to you personally. Again- pony up your cash for the SH1, the A7S3, etc. and you can get exactly what you want, designed just for people like you. What are you filming on today and how can you POSSIBLY get by with what you already have if everything is always wrong?

Do you expect an audio speaker to have good sound and be portable? Do you expect an off-road truck to have good gas mileage? Learn about engineering and market compromises and why products are designed for specific purposes and stop polluting every single discussion with your repetitive complaints. No one cares.


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## cornieleous (Jul 28, 2020)

dwarven said:


> Hmm, I have a feeling it will just be Canon and Sony duking it out for the remaining shares of the ILC market. I love Nikon, but I don’t see them surviving for a lot longer.



Could see a merger, in fact seems likely eventually. If I am not mistaken, Pentax, Panasonic, Olympus, Fuji all have smaller camera market shares and buy their sensors from Sony or elsewhere. Each of those companies make some incredible stuff. None of them are major rivals and so could deal with the culture of a merger I would think.

Canon is the only one of them that bought a foundry to make their own sensors as far as I know, which was a very smart move that produced DPAF and independence from Sony. Without actually innovating new sensors and new ways to use them (such as DPAF, pixel shift, etc) the other brands become users of others technology and not at the cutting edge eventually.


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## mppix (Jul 29, 2020)

Max C said:


> Here is an idea, how about cameras that have the necessary cooling system to match it capabilities and doesn't overheat... How about about that concept Canon!



Sure, some effective ways for cooling
- remove IBIS and attach the sensor to a heatpipe/heatsink as it does not need to move anymore
- move the ADC from the sensor to the pcb and accept lower DR and higher noise (Canon's approach before 5Div)
- connect shell and processor with a heatpipe; allow some surface areas to get 70-80degC hot

However, I don't think you can cool a R5 body "well enough"; you have to reduce the thermal power output by
- Today: reducing MP count to ~12MP so no oversampling/pixel operations are needed
- Future: improve semiconductor node and improve computation efficiency

Welcome to engineering


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## Nelu (Jul 29, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> What are you filming on today and how can you POSSIBLY get by with what you already have if everything is always wrong?


Now THAT is a good question!
I would love to see his work and to understand how the hell an R5 would limit his infinite creativity and to prevent him to fulfill his destiny.


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## unfocused (Jul 29, 2020)

dwarven said:


> ...I love Nikon, but I don’t see them surviving for a lot longer.



This seems to be a popular theme on this forum. Yet Nikon keeps soldiering on. Their customers are a least as loyal as Canon's. They seem to be hitting the mark on their mirrorless system (which does not have the issue of separate lines for full frame and APS-C that Canon faces). I'm too old to switch systems, but if I were to consider switching it would be to Nikon and never to Sony.


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## SteveC (Jul 29, 2020)

unfocused said:


> This seems to be a popular theme on this forum. Yet Nikon keeps soldiering on. Their customers are a least as loyal as Canon's. They seem to be hitting the mark on their mirrorless system (which does not have the issue of separate lines for full frame and APS-C that Canon faces). I'm too old to switch systems, but if I were to consider switching it would be to Nikon and never to Sony.



For whatever reason, I seem to run into more Nikon cameras than Canon ones when I'm in an area where lots of ILCs congregate. I know that's totally at variance with the market share numbers, but for all I know the United States has a disproportionately high number of Nikonians.

Yeah, if Canon actually turns out to be *******, Nikon will get me about a billion years before Sony will. I despised them as a company before I got into photography, and their strategy (including paid trolls and bribing youtubers) has done nothing toward improving my attitude towards them. It's not that I am a Canon "fanboy" but I'm a Sony "antifanboy"


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## dflt (Jul 30, 2020)

unfocused said:


> What does that mean??? Are they launching new models of concept cameras? Or are they launching new models of production cameras based on past concept cameras?
> 
> I'm guessing it's the former. New concept cameras being previewed to grab attention but maybe nothing that will reach production.


It means they have to look for other market segments (or create new ones) for income - since everything is in freefall. Meaning: create products that appeal to average users, who tend to use their phones or gopros or whatever and slice a pie off that market.


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## unfocused (Jul 30, 2020)

dflt said:


> It means they have to look for other market segments (or create new ones) for income - since everything is in freefall. Meaning: create products that appeal to average users, who tend to use their phones or gopros or whatever and slice a pie off that market.


You seemed to miss the point or at least the nuance.

Everyone knows camera manufacturers have to look for other market segments. My comment/question was in response to the specific language about their plans for the coming year. The reference to concept cameras in the report is vague in terms of what they are planning. There is a difference between actually bringing concept cameras to market and holding press events and releasing news about camera concepts. The report can read either way. 

It references an initiative that to the best of my knowledge has not been previously announced. That is unusual, in that usually a new initiative would be announced before being referenced in a report to shareholders.If I were a shareholder, I would want to know "what is this new 'concept camera initiative' and why am i just now hearing about it?"

On another topic. If you are wondering why I reported your subsequent comment, I really could not care less if you or anyone else chooses to insult me. I *do care* when people use inappropriate and offensive terms to describe a class of people. Using the R-word to describe individuals with intellectual challenges is *not* appropriate and *not* to be tolerated.


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## dflt (Jul 30, 2020)

unfocused said:


> You seemed to miss the point or at least the nuance.
> 
> Everyone knows camera manufacturers have to look for other market segments. My comment/question was in response to the specific language about their plans for the coming year. The reference to concept cameras in the report is vague in terms of what they are planning. There is a difference between actually bringing concept cameras to market and holding press events and releasing news about camera concepts. The report can read either way.
> 
> ...


They have zero obligation to disclose what they are up to. Shareholders are shareholders, they can't hold a secret, so you should read more financial reports, then start babbling idiocies. Grow up and learn to be a proper R. And now go on and report my post, whiny boy.


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## unfocused (Jul 30, 2020)

dflt said:


> They have zero obligation to disclose what they are up to. Shareholders are shareholders, they can't hold a secret, so you should read more financial reports, then start babbling idiocies. Grow up and learn to be a proper R. And now go on and report my post, whiny boy.


Your are not worth reporting.


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## melgross (Jul 31, 2020)

I’m not sure what this means either. But, it might mean less than we want it to. Notice that the statement also has the R5 and R6 launching ‘later this year”. So this was written earlier. So it could be referring to the R5 and R6. Marketspeak, and a bit of self congratulation. I used to be in advertising, and this very much looks like advertising copy.


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