# Canon EOS 6D Official Specs



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 17, 2012)

```
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<table border="0" cellspacing="0" cellpadding="0">
<thead>
<tr>
<th colspan="3">Body type</th>
</tr>
</thead>
<tbody>
<tr>
<th>Body type</th>
<td>Mid-size SLR</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
<thead>
<tr>
<th colspan="3">Sensor</th>
</tr>
</thead>
<tbody>
<tr>
<th>Image ratio w:h</th>
<td>3:2</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Effective pixels</th>
<td>20.2 megapixels</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Sensor size</th>
<td>Full frame (36 x 24 mm)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Sensor type</th>
<td>CMOS</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Processor</th>
<td>Digic 5+</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
<thead>
<tr>
<th colspan="3">Image</th>
</tr>
</thead>
<tbody>
<tr>
<th>ISO</th>
<td>Auto, 100 – 25600 in 1/3 stops, plus 50, 51200, 102400 as option</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>White balance presets</th>
<td>6</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Custom white balance</th>
<td>Yes</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Image stabilization</th>
<td>No</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Uncompressed format</th>
<td>RAW</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>JPEG quality levels</th>
<td>Fine, Normal</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
<thead>
<tr>
<th colspan="3">Optics & Focus</th>
</tr>
</thead>
<tbody>
<tr>
<th>Autofocus</th>
<td>
<ul>
<li>Contrast Detect (sensor)</li>
<li>Phase Detect</li>
<li>Multi-area</li>
<li>Selective single-point</li>
<li>Single</li>
<li>Continuous</li>
<li>Face Detection</li>
<li>Live View</li>
</ul>
</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Manual focus</th>
<td>Yes</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Number of focus points</th>
<td>11</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Lens mount</th>
<td>Canon EF mount</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Focal length multiplier</th>
<td>1×</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
<thead>
<tr>
<th colspan="3">Screen / viewfinder</th>
</tr>
</thead>
<tbody>
<tr>
<th>Articulated LCD</th>
<td>Fixed</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Screen size</th>
<td>3.2″</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Screen dots</th>
<td>102,400</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Touch screen</th>
<td>Yes</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Screen type</th>
<td>Clear View II TFT LCD</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Live view</th>
<td>Yes</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Viewfinder type</th>
<td>Optical (pentaprism)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Viewfinder coverage</th>
<td>97 %</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Viewfinder magnification</th>
<td>0.71×</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
<thead>
<tr>
<th colspan="3">Photography features</th>
</tr>
</thead>
<tbody>
<tr>
<th>Minimum shutter speed</th>
<td>30 sec</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Maximum shutter speed</th>
<td>1/8000 sec</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Aperture priority</th>
<td>Yes</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Shutter priority</th>
<td>Yes</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Manual exposure mode</th>
<td>Yes</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Subject / scene modes</th>
<td>Yes</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Built-in flash</th>
<td>No</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>External flash</th>
<td>Yes (Hot shoe)</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Continuous drive</th>
<td>Yes (4.5 fps)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Self-timer</th>
<td>Yes (2 or 10 sec)</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Metering modes</th>
<td>
<ul>
<li>Multi</li>
<li>Center-weighted</li>
<li>Spot</li>
<li>Partial</li>
</ul>
</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Exposure compensation</th>
<td>±5 EV (at 1/3 EV, 1/2 EV steps)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>AE Bracketing</th>
<td>±3 (3 frames at 1/3 EV, 1/2 EV steps)</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>WB Bracketing</th>
<td>Yes (3 frames in either blue/amber or magenta/green axis)</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
<thead>
<tr>
<th colspan="3">Videography features</th>
</tr>
</thead>
<tbody>
<tr>
<th>Format</th>
<td>
<ul>
<li>H.264</li>
</ul>
</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Microphone</th>
<td>Mono</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Speaker</th>
<td>Mono</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Resolutions</th>
<td>1920 x 1080 (29.97, 25, 23.976 fps fps), 1280 x 720 (59.94, 50 fps), 640 x 480 (25, 30 fps)</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Videography notes</th>
<td>1080 and 720 intra or inter frame, 480 inter frame</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
<thead>
<tr>
<th colspan="3">Storage</th>
</tr>
</thead>
<tbody>
<tr>
<th>Storage types</th>
<td>SD/SDHC/SDXC</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
<thead>
<tr>
<th colspan="3">Connectivity</th>
</tr>
</thead>
<tbody>
<tr>
<th>USB</th>
<td>USB 2.0 <small>(480 Mbit/sec)</small></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>HDMI</th>
<td>Yes (HDMI Mini)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Wireless</th>
<td>BuiltIn</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Remote control</th>
<td>Yes (Remote control with N3 type contact, Wireless Controller LC-5, Remote Controller RC-6)</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
<thead>
<tr>
<th colspan="3">Physical</th>
</tr>
</thead>
<tbody>
<tr>
<th>Environmentally sealed</th>
<td>Yes (Splash and dust resistant)</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Battery</th>
<td>Battery Pack</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Battery description</th>
<td>Lithium-Ion LP-E6 rechargeable battery & charger</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Weight (inc. batteries)</th>
<td>770 g (1.70 lb / 27.16 oz)</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Dimensions</th>
<td>145 x 111 x 71 mm (5.71 x 4.37 x 2.8″)</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
<thead>
<tr>
<th colspan="3">Other features</th>
</tr>
</thead>
<tbody>
<tr>
<th>Orientation sensor</th>
<td>Yes</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>Timelapse recording</th>
<td>Yes (by cable and PC)</td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>GPS</th>
<td>BuiltIn</td>
<td></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<th>GPS notes</th>
<td>Image tagging and tracking modes</td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
```


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## coltsfreak18 (Sep 17, 2012)

Some people will say this is nothing revolutionary, but I find this a quite pleasing, welcome, and relatively cheap model.

And if MSRP is 2099, people will should finally be able to get their sub 2k full-frame DSLR easily. That said, if I were a new full-frame buyer, it would be hard-pressed for me not to buy the Nikon D600 or even a 5DII, depending on how that camera handles higher ISO speeds.


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## rocketdesigner (Sep 17, 2012)

Audio Features...?

Is there on screen audio level control?

Is there a headphone jack?


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## preppyak (Sep 17, 2012)

Body size is almost exactly that of the 60D, with a little less depth due to no pop-up flash. 

That said, if the AF is 11pt with just one center cross-point, it makes it basically the same as the 5dII, which was one thing I'm sure many users had hoped would be improved more.


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## coltsfreak18 (Sep 17, 2012)

Dianoda said:


> Looks like the formatting of CRguy's post is still a work in progress, but... is that 5D2 AF? Again? Even the Rebels get better AF these days...


No, it is some new 11 point system. I don't know why they didn't use a more expansive system, or even rehashed one of the older 1D series 45pt system. Only one cross-type point is pretty much unacceptable.


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## dr croubie (Sep 17, 2012)

In short, it's a 5D2, with a touchscreen, a GPS, and a Wifi connection.
Everything else is so slightly incremental, and some are even downgrades, that there's not much between them.
I don't hate it, but i'm not buying one. Even at $1500 it'd be splitting hairs between this and a used 5D2.

One word for the 6D?

Meh.


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## coltsfreak18 (Sep 17, 2012)

dr croubie said:


> One word for the 6D?
> 
> Meh.


+1, that is the best way to describe this incremental model.


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## preppyak (Sep 17, 2012)

Also, the new sensor makes me wonder if they went out of their way to cripple the video; since the 5dIII video was so clean in terms of being moire-free, etc. Otherwise I can't see much reason in making a completely different sensor just for this camera


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## dexstrose (Sep 17, 2012)

Very neat. I dig it. I'm gonna wait until more information comes out. Dpreview has it listed with same specs. 
I'm comparing the 5d line to the 6d to see differences. 
I find it exciting. But will I get it, thats a different story.

http://www.dpreview.com/products/compare/side-by-side?products=canon_eos6d&products=canon_eos5dmkiii&products=canon_eos5dmkii


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## Tom W (Sep 17, 2012)

I'm at a bit of a loss as to the 11 point AF system. Not enough detail - if they're all cross-type with a higher-sensitivity center AF point, then it's a lot like the 40-50-60D AF system. Kind of surprised that they didn't adapt the 7D's system to FF though. Other than the center AF point (which is really very good on the 5D/5D2), it is a better system.


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## Helevitia (Sep 17, 2012)

I'll wait for reviews before fully judging, though I have to admit I'm a little disappointed. The AF really needs to be some kind of new badass system to justify 11 AF points IMHO. Are the mentioned AF features normal or new? I'm still learning so I don't know.

I noticed it has 1/8000 instead of 1/4000. If the AF system is really good and the ISO noise is better than an MK2, I might still buy it. FYI, I'm coming from a 7D.


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## bdunbar79 (Sep 17, 2012)

It's truly a 5D Mark II with a Digic 5+. Well, almost.


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## Woody (Sep 17, 2012)

Wondering how many AF points are cross-sensors.


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## dtaylor (Sep 17, 2012)

Yawn :-\


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## Alski (Sep 17, 2012)

Hopefully the one saving specification the Canon could have at this point might ironically be the 11 point AF system... wait, I know what your thinking, hear me out...

From what we've seen of both Nikon's and Sony's offerings, they're using AF modules borrowed from their APS-C cameras, meaning they occupy a tiny little fraction of the frame, all clustered into the centre. Aside from subject tracking, which these cameras are not made for, and which the Sony will (based on specs alone) probably only marginally excel at, having all the AF points in the centre is a nightmare for all sorts of photographers who would like this as a secondary body, and for those people as basic as an 11 point AF seems, its better than a "19+109 point" that covers a fraction of the frame.

Here's hoping that Canon manage to bring out the only entry level FF with FF AF.


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## steliosk (Sep 17, 2012)

how about the AF system? same as slow as 5D 2?


Articulated LCD	: Fixed
Touch screen	: Yes


SUCKS!!!!!!!!
who gives a damn about touch screen?


another waste of time waiting on a FF with an articulated screen... perhaps canon will build one after 10 years...
arrrrgh!!!!!!!


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## Noink Fanb0i (Sep 17, 2012)

SD cards, only 11-pt AF with 1 cross-type, 97% VF coverage, this pales in comparison to the similarly-priced D600. I wonder why they would expend so much development costs when they should have just dropped the price of the 5D2 to $1500 and the 5D3 to $2500.


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## dr croubie (Sep 17, 2012)

Here's a much more exciting product launch today than the 5D mk 2.01...

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=9447.0


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## Videoshooter (Sep 17, 2012)

I'd also like to know if it has a headphone jack and on-screen audio meters. If it does, I'll probably get one. If not, I don't see any reason for me not to keep using my 5dmkII.


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## bbasiaga (Sep 17, 2012)

This could be a real winner. I agree we need more detail on the AF. I would hope they are all cross type, with the 'one' everyone is referencing being the more sensitive type. Another pivot point will be the ISO performance. If this has usable 12800, or better yet good 12800 and usable 25600 (like the 5dMKIII) then that will be awesome. 

Any mention of AFMA?

-Brian


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## JBeckwith (Sep 17, 2012)

So far this makes me even happier that I just bought a 5D Mk II. I got it for a great deal and I honestly feel like it would be a step sideways (or even down) to have waited for the 6D.


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## Phenix205 (Sep 17, 2012)

A true disappoinment from Canon!


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## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

price point should be 1500. no more than that or else it sucks big time.


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## HughHowey (Sep 17, 2012)

No built-in flash? Why?

Canon is doing everything wrong. I keep waiting for them to wake up, but I guess it'll take them being #2 or #3 in the market before they get with the program. As impossible as that would've seemed a few years ago, now it seems inevitable.


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## Axilrod (Sep 17, 2012)

One thing I'm confused about is the "Screen dots" on the LCD, not sure if that's a misprint or what. But 5D3 has 1,040,000, 5D2 has 920,000, and this only has 102,400? How bad does the LCD look then?


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## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

BEST FEATURE: TOUCHSCREEN

Why, this is the only thing that beats Nikon D600.  Nice move Canon. You're the best!


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## Noink Fanb0i (Sep 17, 2012)

Canon 6D==iPhone 4.2 5.

Nikon D600/D800==Nokia Lumia 920


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## ontarian (Sep 17, 2012)

I'm getting one but not because I'm impressed but rather I need it for adapter testing (mirror interference determination). 


What I would have liked:

pop up flash
articulated screen
sub 1600 price tag
no touchscreen

What is kind of cool though:

built in wifi 
GPS


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## Axilrod (Sep 17, 2012)

I don't think it's fair to assume that just because this has 11 AF points that it's automatically as bad as the 5DII, I think we'll have to wait on some reviews for that. 

It seems like a decent camera, although if it was $1500 it would be an amazing camera. But even at $2099 it seems like they're still trying to position it towards rebel users wanting to upgrade to full-frame.


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## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

http://www.dpreview.com/products/canon/slrs/canon_eos6d

More on the sucking, este, shocker announcement.


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## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

Please make it around 1500. I'll buy it if priced like that.


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## dtaylor (Sep 17, 2012)

verysimplejason said:


> Please make it around 1500. I'll buy it if priced like that.



Given the AF system, that's all the higher it should cost.


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## Noink Fanb0i (Sep 17, 2012)

As usual, Canon found a way to unreasonably cripple it to upsell us the 5D3. 97% VF on a $2K camera??? Really? SD cards only??? This is a $1500 camera, nothing more.


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## weixing (Sep 17, 2012)

Hi,


Axilrod said:


> One thing I'm confused about is the "Screen dots" on the LCD, not sure if that's a misprint or what. But 5D3 has 1,040,000, 5D2 has 920,000, and this only has 102,400? How bad does the LCD look then?


 I think they miss a letter: "K"... ;D This show that everyone is copy and paste without looking.... ha ha ha 

Have a nice day.


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## Phenix205 (Sep 17, 2012)

Delay, quality issue, quick price drop (indication of overprice?), boring new product, .... Something is not right. I give two thumbs up to their lens department, but the 1DX and 5D3 might be the last two cameras that (arguably) beat their competitors if they let arrogance and lack of innovation take over.


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## mirekti (Sep 17, 2012)

Noink Fanb0i said:


> As usual, Canon found a way to unreasonably cripple it to upsell us the 5D3. 97% VF on a $2K camera??? Really? SD cards only??? This is a $1500 camera, nothing more.



I totally agree!! unless they came up with a revolutionary sensor 8)


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 17, 2012)

coltsfreak18 said:


> dr croubie said:
> 
> 
> > One word for the 6D?
> ...



another is.... thank god!
(since I was slow to get my 5D2 listed for sale, maybe now it won't 100% crash in price, although damn, I bet this will knock a couple hundred bucks off it though  )


but man the D600 just makes this look utterly silly! How can the 6D be the same price? 

So, I think it's a stupid spec once again showing Canon being totally behind the 8 ball, arrogant and left behind. But man am I ever relieved and happy personally ;D I may not have utterly blown it by being so slow to list my 5D2 for sale....


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 17, 2012)

Alski said:


> Hopefully the one saving specification the Canon could have at this point might ironically be the 11 point AF system... wait, I know what your thinking, hear me out...
> 
> From what we've seen of both Nikon's and Sony's offerings, they're using AF modules borrowed from their APS-C cameras, meaning they occupy a tiny little fraction of the frame, all clustered into the centre. Aside from subject tracking, which these cameras are not made for, and which the Sony will (based on specs alone) probably only marginally excel at, having all the AF points in the centre is a nightmare for all sorts of photographers who would like this as a secondary body, and for those people as basic as an 11 point AF seems, its better than a "19+109 point" that covers a fraction of the frame.
> 
> Here's hoping that Canon manage to bring out the only entry level FF with FF AF.



AF systems are basically the same size for APS_C or APS-H or FF so not sure what you mean buy that....


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## DianeK (Sep 17, 2012)

Well this pretty much wraps it up for me. If I'm going FF, it will be the D600. My other option is to hope they don't drop the ball as badly as this when then release a 7D replacement....if a new 7D has reduced noise, I will upgrade then and just stick with a crop camera. I hope this really, really flops and Canon finally wakes up.
Diane


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 17, 2012)

Does this thing even have any AF assist points? The 5D2 is 9+6 pts for 15 total I think. 9 regular and 6 hidden assists. So is this one 11 regular but 0 assists? For sports/action/bird tracking that would actually make it a worse camera than the 5D2. Maybe it is 11+6? (the part of me that's wants canon to do well hopes so, the part of me that wants to sell my 5D2 hopes not as well as the part of me that wants them for once and all to finally get woken up before they give it all away.... they were once the total leader in sensors and then video and now....)


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## brad-man (Sep 17, 2012)

$2099 if the Adorama "goof" is to be believed. TBD how good the focus system is. The real question is what's up with this new sensor. High ISO capability? Presumably, this thing will be compatable with the new STM lenses...


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 17, 2012)

Phenix205 said:


> Delay, quality issue, quick price drop (indication of overprice?), boring new product, .... Something is not right. I give two thumbs up to their lens department, but the 1DX and 5D3 might be the last two cameras that (arguably) beat their competitors if they let arrogance and lack of innovation take over.



Ah whatever, they will do what they will do. I was afraid of this already like half a decade ago.

As someone said at least they have released some utterly kick ass lenses the last few years.
If only their sensor and body division would act with the same drive and pride!


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## RC (Sep 17, 2012)

So how does this body qualify or justify an xD name? Seems to me it should be something like 65D or even a xxxD. Not that it really matters but I thought Canon's naming conventions had some definition.

So here we have a new FF body for the gimmick crowd - touchscreen, GPS, WiFi and SD variations (I wonder what happened to the Facebook button). Although GPS can be useful, for most of us it's still a gimmick. Touchscreen and WiFi, but only 11 AF points and not even sure if there is more than one cross-type? This camera is pathetic and silly. But I'm sure Canon will sell a ton of them and that is their objective.

I was really hopefully that Canon was going to cater to the serious amateur /hobbyist crowd before the soccer mom crowd (no offense soccer moms).

With this 6D priced and placed where it is, I don't see Canon building another FF between this and the 5D3--unless of course Nikon builds one and then Canon will have to follow again.

Yip, I'm ticked and disappointed.


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## weixing (Sep 17, 2012)

Hi,
From spec, 11 AF point with multi-area AF... Hmm... look like a sub 7D AF... hopefully, it'll be all cross type AF point. Built-in GPS and Wireless... I think it'll be US$2K++

Have a nice day.


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## Alski (Sep 17, 2012)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Alski said:
> 
> 
> > Hopefully the one saving specification the Canon could have at this point might ironically be the 11 point AF system... wait, I know what your thinking, hear me out...
> ...



mmm.... are you sure? I was very much under the impression that AF area was linked to prism size which is linked to sensor size.

Look at the AF area coverage of the D600 here : http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/read.asp?forum=1021&message=42484333

And the Sony A99 here: http://4.static.img-dpreview.com/previews/sony-alpha-slt-a99/images/screens/AF-Range.jpg?v=1581

Both, but particularly the Sony are tiny compared to the frame coverage of any of the 5D's.


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## EvillEmperor (Sep 17, 2012)

While it seems cool, I'm going to still save up for a MK III. More fps, more AF, and there are probably other advantages. Canon likes to experiment on the older cameras then apply to new.
Where is this official? I see no source.


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## Woody (Sep 17, 2012)

I am wondering what makes Canon think anyone will buy this camera when there's a similarly priced Nikon D600 that has far better specs than the 6D?

Maybe this 20 MP FF sensor offers 15 stops of dynamic range at ISO 100, and its ISO 6400 is as clean as ISO 400 on the 5D3? 

Obviously, Canon management needs a major shake-up.


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## hmmm (Sep 17, 2012)

mirekti said:


> I totally agree!! unless they came up with a revolutionary sensor 8)



+1 That is the only thing that can save this spec, imho.


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## mitchell3417 (Sep 17, 2012)

If it were to have 11 cross-point sensors I would seriously consider buying it. Assuming it doesn't, 5DIII is only upgrade from my 5DII. That's a real shame to me. I can't believe they cripple the autofucus once again. The 60D, 50D, and 650D all have better AF. Why?


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## extremeinstability (Sep 17, 2012)

Auto, 100 - 25600 in 1/3 stops, plus 50, 51200, 102400 as option 

Guess that aspect is a clear upgrade to the 5D II. As I look to go full frame without a focusing desire or frame rate, this kinda works for me. 

Compared to 5D II Auto, 100 - 6400 in 1/3 stops, plus 50, 12800, 25600 as option 

So I presume the sensor performance will be as good as the 5D III. Is the D600 sensor going to be any better? What I saw of images it didn't scream that it would be. 

I really want a 24mm F1.4L now on whatever full frame I get. The problem is it doesn't look like I want that to be the Nikon version. And given I already have a 100-400L. I guess I'm going to wind up in the 'dumb group' that would pick the 6D over the D600. Hmmm. And if there's at least that difference in sensor high ISO ability to the 5D II I guess I don't want to really bother with that now either. But holy crap do I want something right now though. Sigh.


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## EchoLocation (Sep 17, 2012)

This is borderline insulting.
When the 5DII came out 4 years ago, the AF was underwhelming.... now they announce a FF camera over 2000 dollars with ANOTHER 11 point AF?
I was waiting for this camera to upgrade from my 5D Classic. I would've bought a 5DII a long time ago, but i wanted better AF.
EVERYONE has been saying to just put something similar to the AF of the 7D in the 6D and make it FF and that would be cool....
Then they deliver ANOTHER 11PT AF? 
ARE YOU FREAKING KIDDING ME???????
From my perspective, everything Canon has released in the past couple of years has either been overpriced(mainly 24-70, 24mm, 28mm lenses, and 5DIII(should've been 3000 off the bat)) or just completely uninteresting/seemingly inferior to Nikon..
The only things about this camera that i see as an obvious upgrade from my 5D Classic from 2005 are the GPS, the size(i like smaller, 5DC is a brick), and the screen on the back......
of course the sensor and ISO are better, but they should be!!!
If this camera was 1200 dollars i'd consider it instead of the D600.....
but with these specs and price, THIS IS A JOKE......
It's not even close.
Go ahead and flame away on me, but if you think this camera is better than the D600(especially after the D800 sensor trounced the 5DIII in tests,) then you are obviously smoking what Canon wants you to be smoking.
This is borderline insulting to Canon users and people heavily invested in the system. 
i'll wait for some tests on the D600 to consider buying it, i may still get the D800, 5DIII or RX1, but I won't even consider this camera, and this should be exactly what I was waiting for(a 5DII with 7D AF.)

DSLR's are a dying breed, I'm really getting more interested in lightening my bag(I travel a lot, hike, etc.) and it seems that Canon only wants to hasten their demise by offering underwhelming, un-innovative products at exorbitant prices.


----------



## pj1974 (Sep 17, 2012)

This camera is obviously the 'budget FF' - probably for the enthusiast wanting a FF for landscapes... or occasional studio / macro. I don't see anything wrong with that... as I expect that in a number of months time - some resellers will be selling the 6D at around $1800.

I, for one - do find the 5D and 5DmkII AF systems annoyingly clustered at the centre - and therefore not as useful an AF system as I like. But then again, for landscape I nearly often centre point anyway. However as my main camera is a 7D, that 19 pt AF system really performs strongly (both in placement and in AF responsiveness, etc). I hope the 11 pts are well positioned (ie spaced out a bit). This camera is not a fast camera, so there is little need to have multiple AF pts near each other anyway....

What I do find interesting - is that there are now 3 different Canon FF sensors: 5DmkIII (24MP), 6D (20MP) and 1DX (18MP). If the latest one to be released - that is, if the 6D's sensor - has good qualities (low noise, recoverable shadows / highlights - and minimal banding issues) at low ISO and performs well at high ISO, that could be very much a winner for some people. 8)

While I'm not planning to move to a FF at this stage - I will follow the Canon development, and see what 6D features trickles through to other lines. My most likely upgrade will be to a Canon 7DmkII at some stage in the future (if this beast is ever released!) I do love my 7D for reach with my 70-300mm L zoom, the great walk-around combination with the Canon 15-85mm lens and my 10-20mm Sigma EX for ultrawide!

Looking forward to the reviews... hopefully the AF and sensor will be strong. 

Regards....

Paul


----------



## DB (Sep 17, 2012)

Woody said:


> I am wondering what makes Canon think anyone will buy this camera when there's a similarly priced Nikon D600 that has far better specs than the 6D?
> 
> Maybe this 20 MP FF sensor offers 15 stops of dynamic range at ISO 100, and its ISO 6400 is as clean as ISO 400 on the 5D3?
> 
> Obviously, Canon management needs a major shake-up.



Why?

They're in business to make money. The EOS 6D will be one of their best selling prosumer DSLR's. It will outsell the 7D. It has everything that a Rebel owner wants in an upgrade. 

The pixel density @ 6.6 microns exceeds that of the new 5D3 (@6.25 microns) and assuming that the quantum efficiency of this new sensor is as good as that of the other new FF sensors, coupled with similar algorithms, AA-filter and A/D converter, the read noise will be very low (just like 1DX and 5D3). The boost in ISO performance, increased DR and improved speed from the DIGIC5+ processor for a camera owner upgrading from a xxD or xxD body is tantamount to a PC owner upgrading from an Intel Celeron processor to a quad-core i7. This product is a major upgrade for a crop-sensor camera owner.

For those who want the additional features of the 5D3, then they'll pay the extra 600 to 700 bucks.


----------



## baronng (Sep 17, 2012)

D600 is equipped with Sony's 24M sensor; DR will be much better than Canon's sensor for sure!
I have no idea what Canon is thinking, I'm going to sell my 7D and L glasses



extremeinstability said:


> Auto, 100 - 25600 in 1/3 stops, plus 50, 51200, 102400 as option
> 
> Guess that aspect is a clear upgrade to the 5D II. As I look to go full frame without a focusing desire or frame rate, this kinda works for me.
> 
> ...


----------



## frogwise (Sep 17, 2012)

Is anyone else worried about the 102,400 Screen Dot resolution of the screen, when most new Canons have over 1 million? Is this a typo?


----------



## Meh (Sep 17, 2012)

dilbert said:


> What is the point of this camera?
> 
> To show that Canon can deliver a cheap-n-nasty FF DSLR?



Exactly! I've been saying this in another thread. Who exactly is this body targeted towards? Working pros? Not a chance. A step up from a high-end Rebel... I don't think so the price gap is too big (if it is $2099). An upgrade from a 7D... forget it the 7D is better all around performance for action (i.e. the main reason to get a 7D over 60D).

Is there actually a market for a $2k FF body that sacrifices everything else?


----------



## mitch.o (Sep 17, 2012)

I think we should withhold judgement until we see IQ and noise control from this 20.2 megapixel sensor. Because in the end, isn't that what really matters?


----------



## DB (Sep 17, 2012)

mitch.o said:


> I think we should withhold judgement until we see IQ and noise control from this 20.2 megapixel sensor. Because in the end, isn't that what really matters?



..precisely, plus at least 50% of the potential buyers of this camera will use it to shoot mainly video


----------



## RC (Sep 17, 2012)

Meh said:


> ... Who exactly is this body targeted towards? Working pros? Not a chance. A step up from a high-end Rebel... I don't think so the price gap is too big (if it is $2099). An upgrade from a 7D... forget it the 7D is better all around performance for action (i.e. the main reason to get a 7D over 60D).
> 
> Is there actually a market for a $2k FF body that sacrifices everything else?



Confused just the same. I guess it must be the "Best Buy" type crowd where the salesperson can show off how "cool" the touchy screen is and then transmit a jpg wirelessly to a nearby laptop. "Oooo this one's cool Martha"


----------



## ageha (Sep 17, 2012)

coltsfreak18 said:


> Dianoda said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like the formatting of CRguy's post is still a work in progress, but... is that 5D2 AF? Again? Even the Rebels get better AF these days...
> ...


I agree. 



Alski said:


> Hopefully the one saving specification the Canon could have at this point might ironically be the 11 point AF system... wait, I know what your thinking, hear me out...
> 
> From what we've seen of both Nikon's and Sony's offerings, they're using AF modules borrowed from their APS-C cameras, meaning they occupy a tiny little fraction of the frame, all clustered into the centre. Aside from subject tracking, which these cameras are not made for, and which the Sony will (based on specs alone) probably only marginally excel at, having all the AF points in the centre is a nightmare for all sorts of photographers who would like this as a secondary body, and for those people as basic as an 11 point AF seems, its better than a "19+109 point" that covers a fraction of the frame.
> 
> Here's hoping that Canon manage to bring out the only entry level FF with FF AF.



I think you need to get yourself more familiar with PDAF sensors, mate.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 17, 2012)

Alski said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > Alski said:
> ...



look inside a 5D2 and then look inside a 50D and you'll see the AF sensor is basically the same size, the AF sub mirror is way smaller than the main mirror on the 5D2 and only moderately smaller than the main mirror on the 50D. They are limited by the angle they can collect light from the 35mm mount lens and still work well. Also notice how the APS-C AF points tend to appear much, much closer to the edges than they do on the 5D2, because it's basically the same size AF system so it covers more of the APS-C sensor than the FF sensor area.

Maybe it is 11 cross type and 1 super precision type and 6 central assists or even 3 pairs of 6 assists???


----------



## mitch.o (Sep 17, 2012)

DB said:


> mitch.o said:
> 
> 
> > I think we should withhold judgement until we see IQ and noise control from this 20.2 megapixel sensor. Because in the end, isn't that what really matters?
> ...



Or (as in my case) to shoot portraits and landscapes (NOT sports or action).


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 17, 2012)

hmmm said:


> mirekti said:
> 
> 
> > I totally agree!! unless they came up with a revolutionary sensor 8)
> ...



yeah but then it's like why the heck did you save the good sensor for the 6D and put in the old tech for the 5D3 (And 1DX)??? wth


----------



## Ryan_W (Sep 17, 2012)

ontarian said:


> What I would have liked:
> 
> pop up flash






HughHowey said:


> No built-in flash? Why?



Hopefully, that's the price to pay for a bright, quiet, 5D3-style pentaprism viewfinder with silent mode. The XXXD series use pentamirrors, which are significantly dimmer, and can make accurate focusing difficult under fast action.

Further, with f/2.8 lenses at $200 and under, and usable ISO at 12,800, there's no good reason to use a pop-up flash anymore.

What concerns me is the 97% and not 100% coverage. I can only hope it was an effort to trim weight. Anyone who has shot for an extended period of time with a gripped 5D3 knows that they are intolerably heavy, especially with bright glass. If this thing is lightweight, I'll forgive the 3% loss of area very quickly. 

If it's some kind of hybrid that's as noisy as a pentamirror, however, it belongs in the trash.

*Other thoughts:*
The AF concerns me, but I'll wait and see. An 11 point AF is 10 more than I use 99% of the time. If they use the new AF software system in the newer bodies like the 5D3, they might be able to get away with it, especially if the coverage is fairly large.

When I shoot with our 5D3 at work, I use center point, or I cluster the AF points into zones and use the thumb stick to choose on the fly. I tell my camera where to focus, not vice versa. If this little guy has the same style AF, I can't see the difference, but if it's lightweight and lets me auto-upload files via WIFI to a macbook air for filing with my editor, I most certainly will.

This seems to be a camera built for street shooting. Two years ago, I bought a t2i to have something I could afford to break that was light enough to carry around 100% of the time when I'm not shooting for work. My biggest problem with it is the dim viewfinder and creaky shutter noise. If the 6D eliminates that without adding too much weight, it'll be my new carryaround.


----------



## extremeinstability (Sep 17, 2012)

baronng said:


> D600 is equipped with Sony's 24M sensor; DR will be much better than Canon's sensor for sure!
> I have no idea what Canon is thinking, I'm going to sell my 7D and L glasses



Yeah that is what I fear. If Nikon had the winning 24mm F1.4 this would be easy to me now. If Canon got the 5D III down to that $2750 price earlier, it'd probably be as easy again(enough bonuses I'd forget the DR/read noise deal). It's pretty annoying at the moment trying to figure out which route. Maybe there will be a surprise in the Canon DR and read noise deal. I can't see them having had time to see what the D800 sensor was doing before the sensor for this was being made though, so I really really doubt it performs like that in those areas. I can live without it though, however it's so tempting to switch. If only the lens aspect wasn't a bit of a pain in the butt then. But for someone thinking the 5D II was the best and only FF route for around $2000 within the past week, while staying Canon, this doesn't sound so terrible with the ISO boost to the 5D III level. Sounds good. D600 just trying to put on some blinders, potentially.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 17, 2012)

mitch.o said:


> I think we should withhold judgement until we see IQ and noise control from this 20.2 megapixel sensor. Because in the end, isn't that what really matters?



yeah but it will be tough to beat the D600 if the D600 is exmor and if it does come close then what the heck were they thinking saving their best tech for the 6D and putting old tech in the king pin 5D3 and 1DX???


----------



## cptobvious (Sep 17, 2012)

I'm looking forward to this, but for other reasons:

-Means 5D2 is going to be discontinued - perhaps there'll be a chance to snag one for <$1500 new or <$1300 refurbished come holiday season

-Canon and Nikon doing battle in the entry-level FF market = win for consumers. Sony and Pentax will probably follow suit and in a couple of years FF may be selling in the $1000-1500 price range

I've decided to stick with a 5D classic until things shake out a bit more.


----------



## Meh (Sep 17, 2012)

mitch.o said:


> I think we should withhold judgement until we see IQ and noise control from this 20.2 megapixel sensor. Because in the end, isn't that what really matters?



Let's say it's stellar IQ... as good as the 5D3 (it won't be better, Canon's not going to put their best in a 6D and second best in the 5D3). Then so what? It's a great sensor in a hobbled body for $2k... who's buying it?

The price gap is too large to entice an average consumer up from the Rebel line. And the features are not up to spec for working pros. There is no question that it's an entry level FF... but what are the features (other than the sensor) that make this better than a 60D? And if the only benefit over a 60D is the sensor... then how many customers are going to pay that much more for a FF sensor when the vast majority of Rebel customers don't even know the difference.

Guy walks into Best Buy to buy a Canon DSLR. Salesperson shows him a 60D for $900 and a 6D for $2000. Same body and specs but 6D is FF... what's the customer going to buy? Is the salesperson going to be able to explain the benefits of FF... many of the salespeople probably don't even know themselves.

Sure there are many folks on CR reading this right now salivating that they can get a FF camera for $2k.... but nobody on here is an average consumer... we are all camera enthusiasts reading up daily on how great FF is... so the person this is targeted for is a person that is lusting after FF, is unwilling/unable to pay $3500 for a 5D3, and doesn't need the AF and speed of a 7D. How big is that market?


----------



## Meh (Sep 17, 2012)

AFMA?


----------



## ageha (Sep 17, 2012)

frogwise said:


> Is anyone else worried about the 102,400 Screen Dot resolution of the screen, when most new Canons have over 1 million? Is this a typo?


Nobody is worried about it because it's a typo obviously. Jeez...


----------



## ageha (Sep 17, 2012)

Alski said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > Alski said:
> ...


No.


----------



## Ryan_W (Sep 17, 2012)

Meh said:


> AFMA?



AutoFocus Micro Adjustment. It lets you tune the focus on lenses. http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/cameras/1ds3_af_micoadjustment.html


----------



## DianeK (Sep 17, 2012)

Meh said:


> AFMA?


Hmmm, no mention of AFMA in the specs...yet another (canon)ball dropped ???


----------



## Meh (Sep 17, 2012)

Ryan_W said:


> Meh said:
> 
> 
> > AFMA?
> ...



Thanks Ryan... but I was asking if the 6D had it not what it is.


----------



## lopicma (Sep 17, 2012)

Well... I think this camera sounds fine! It isn't too spiffy, and it isn't a PoS either. Now all we have to do is wait for the "shake down" to see what manufacturing problems crop up. 

This is on my short list anyway... So many choices, so little money.


----------



## dr croubie (Sep 17, 2012)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Phenix205 said:
> 
> 
> > Delay, quality issue, quick price drop (indication of overprice?), boring new product, .... Something is not right. I give two thumbs up to their lens department, but the 1DX and 5D3 might be the last two cameras that (arguably) beat their competitors if they let arrogance and lack of innovation take over.
> ...



There's an image that i'm thinking of, that describes exactly what canon have become in the last few years, after the groundbreaking successes of the 1Ds and the 5D2 went to their heads...


----------



## Ryan_W (Sep 17, 2012)

Meh said:


> Ryan_W said:
> 
> 
> > Meh said:
> ...



Oh sorry. I mean, every XD camera they've put out in the past 4 years or so has had it, so here's hoping.


----------



## Noink Fanb0i (Sep 17, 2012)

dr croubie said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > Phenix205 said:
> ...



Also reminds me of the latest "new release" from a certain fruity company. Overpriced and under-spec'ed. :


----------



## Musouka (Sep 17, 2012)

At least the Maximum shutter speed is 1/8000 ;D


----------



## mitch.o (Sep 17, 2012)

Meh said:


> mitch.o said:
> 
> 
> > I think we should withhold judgement until we see IQ and noise control from this 20.2 megapixel sensor. Because in the end, isn't that what really matters?
> ...



So I guess the solution is the sales guys step it up and sell the B----. And you know they will because... they're salesmen (and women. I'm not sexist).


----------



## Meh (Sep 17, 2012)

DianeK said:


> Meh said:
> 
> 
> > AFMA?
> ...



I'm not sure if it's necessarily a ball dropped but rather a clear separation from the 5D3 and a clear positioning of this body as a consumer upgrade from the Rebel line. But this is what I've been saying elsewhere... who exactly is this body meant for and if it is solely an upgrade from the Rebel line then how many are going to pay the $1200 extra for FF when most Rebel users don't even know what FF is. I know lot's of people with Rebels (who take nice pictures mind you) and don't understand the difference between their Rebel and their iPhone. They know the Rebel takes better pictures but they don't know why.


----------



## Noink Fanb0i (Sep 17, 2012)

> At least the Maximum shutter speed is 1/8000 ;D



I'd trade that for a 100% VF and a 1Dx-class VF blackout time and shutter release lag time any day! See D600/D800 specs.


----------



## justsomedude (Sep 17, 2012)

Meh said:


> mitch.o said:
> 
> 
> > I think we should withhold judgement until we see IQ and noise control from this 20.2 megapixel sensor. Because in the end, isn't that what really matters?
> ...



I disagree on your assessment of this body. While I agree many people are underwhelmed by this offering, let's keep in mind that Canon is still in "catch up mode", trying to deal with how it will respond to the D800. This was likely in the pipeline long before some high MP body was conceived, and I think it fits in to the Canon lineup quite nicely.

That said, I think this body has a place in the toolbox for many working pros. I, for one, would much rather have an affordable full-frame back-up body for events/weddings. Don't get me wrong, the 7D has worked as a solid back-up for me thus far, but it has left a lot to be desired in the realm of low-light situations where AF and noise management are critical.

With the ISOs and (most likely) reduced noise over the crop-sensor of the 60D, this will become a go-to back up for budget conscious pros. I think it will be immensely popular with pros, and enthusiasts who are just looking for a little "more."


----------



## prjkt (Sep 17, 2012)

this camera is seriously tempting me, maybe because I'm in a minority group - my current kit consists of the 600D & 450D bodies, with the following lenses:
EF 28mm 2.8
EF 40mm 2.8
EF 50mm 1.8
Tamron 24-70 2.8 VC
Sigma 70-200 2.8 OS
Tokina 11-16 2.8
along with the 580EX II and 600EX-RT Speedlights

with the exception of the last lens (which I usually only use on my "backup" body if I'm using two at once) they're all FF compatible.

Most of my work is social photography - nightclubs parties etc, with a bit of landscape and portraiture here and there, so the AF system doesn't worry me.
Small boost in MP, again, doesn't phase me - probably a downside considering the number of shots I take per gig...
SD media - perfect, I've got 8 or so cards floating around here
No built in flash - primary downside for me, considering I do a bit of off camera flash triggered by my 600D, but then if I get the Speedlite 90EX with the EOS M I'm also considering for my gf, that does flash triggering too...
Wireless - cool, will work well with my current system using an Eye-Fi in the 600D
Non-articulated LCD - oh well, can't have everything I want - does come in handy sometimes

if it's priced around the AU$2k mark, I'll probably grab one - working at one of the biggest camera retailers in the country has it's advantages if I want to borrow one to test out, or get a slight discount on....


----------



## RC (Sep 17, 2012)

DianeK said:


> Meh said:
> 
> 
> > AFMA?
> ...



I highly doubt they will add AFMA because it seems they are clearing marketing it towards the consumer crowd. 

To them the touchy screen is more important that this A. F. M. A. thingy. Who needs AFMA when you could have a touchy screen?


----------



## Wilmark (Sep 17, 2012)

Something tells me that this camera has plastic in the body maybe like the 60D. The weight is a little low. Esp considering that it has wifi and GPS. I suspect that the GPS will not be up to the GP-E2 standard and more like those found in phones. I have used the GP-E2 and I am impressed with accuracy and performance in general. There is a problem in putting GPS inside a metal body and maybe to some extent the WiFi. This kind of impresses me as a rebel FF camera especially with the touch screen.


----------



## Woody (Sep 17, 2012)

Meh said:


> Let's say it's stellar IQ... as good as the 5D3 (it won't be better, Canon's not going to put their best in a 6D and second best in the 5D3). Then so what? It's a great sensor in a hobbled body for $2k... who's buying it?



IF (low chance though) its IQ is BETTER than the 5D3, people may buy it. That was what happened with the Canon Rebel 300D vs Nikon D70/D100.

But products do not exist in vacuum, the D600 is priced identically with far better specs. In this regard, the 6D may be the next major flop like the 1000D (when the sales of the latter is compared to the Nikon D3000).


----------



## mitch.o (Sep 17, 2012)

I'm starting to realize that the average consumer (and even the average armature photographers) knows next to nothing about Crop/Full Frame benefits. For example, today I was explaining to my friend how the new D600 is different than his D7000 (yes he shoots with Nikon... so I guess he's just my acquaintance). And after 10 minutes of sorting through jargon and drawing him some diagrams on the back of a napkin, he still didn't understand the advantage of having a full frame. For him it just made more sense to stick to his trusty crop sensor. And if this rings true for a lot of other consumers, both Nikon AND Canon should have an equally hard time selling these spiffy new FF bodies.


----------



## limelight (Sep 17, 2012)

As a 7D owner who was looking to upgrade to FF - I'm not impressed with the 6D specs. I had hoped for more from the 6D, so my move to FF will be to a 5D2. The 5D2 is a tried and proven FF performer that I can acquire for less money with more resolution and enough features for my needs. Between the 7D and the 5D2, I have all the performance and capability I need for the next couple of years. Given the pace of change and innovation, who knows what i will get to choose from in a couple of years. In the meantime, I will have two great systems to work with as I continue my photographic journey!


----------



## friedmud (Sep 17, 2012)

Face Detection? Is that only during Live View focusing... or does it have full-time face detection? Might signal that there is all new AF tech here.

I am really hoping they did something awesome with that sensor. Unless it is super clean at low ISO (100) and give great DR this thing might be a dud....

The D600 is a pretty badass camera spec wise compared to this. Let's hope there's some awesomeness about this new camera that we don't know yet....


----------



## Meh (Sep 17, 2012)

justsomedude said:


> I disagree on your assessment of this body. While I agree many people are underwhelmed by this offering, let's keep in mind that Canon is still in "catch up mode", trying to deal with how it will respond to the D800. This was likely in the pipeline long before some high MP body was conceived, and I think it fits in to the Canon lineup quite nicely.
> 
> That said, I think this body has a place in the toolbox for many working pros. I, for one, would much rather have an affordable full-frame back-up body for events/weddings. Don't get me wrong, the 7D has worked as a solid back-up for me thus far, but it has left a lot to be desired in the realm of low-light situations where AF and noise management are critical.
> 
> With the ISOs and (most likely) reduced noise over the crop-sensor of the 60D, this will become a go-to back up for budget conscious pros. I think it will be immensely popular with pros, and enthusiasts who are just looking for a little "more."



Absolutely, it's been in the pipeline for a while and not positioned against the D800 rather the D600. As for it's place in the line up that's what I'm getting at... what is the main target market.

For yourself you see it is a potential backup... not your main camera... so I assume you agree with its limitations for pro use. And you also point out it's a back up for budget conscious pros. So yes, some will use it as a back up but many will also see it as too hobbled and just have a second 5D3 (it will only be $1400 more).

Who else is buying this at $2k?


----------



## Meh (Sep 17, 2012)

mitch.o said:


> I'm starting to realize that the average consumer (and even the average armature photographers) knows next to nothing about Crop/Full Frame benefits. For example, today I was explaining to my friend how the new D600 is different than his D7000 (yes he shoots with Nikon... so I guess he's just my acquaintance). And after 10 minutes of sorting through jargon and drawing him some diagrams on the back of a napkin, he still didn't understand the advantage of having a full frame. For him it just made more sense to stick to his trusty crop sensor. And if this rings true for a lot of other consumers, both Nikon AND Canon should have an equally hard time selling these spiffy new FF bodies.



Exactly!


----------



## frogwise (Sep 17, 2012)

ageha said:


> frogwise said:
> 
> 
> > Is anyone else worried about the 102,400 Screen Dot resolution of the screen, when most new Canons have over 1 million? Is this a typo?
> ...



Are you always this pleasant or just when someone asks a legitimate question?


----------



## wilddreamer (Sep 17, 2012)

i just hoping that when 6D come out, the price of 5D mark 3 will getting cheaper and i will get the mark 3 instead. thank you canon


----------



## Meh (Sep 17, 2012)

Woody said:


> Meh said:
> 
> 
> > Let's say it's stellar IQ... as good as the 5D3 (it won't be better, Canon's not going to put their best in a 6D and second best in the 5D3). Then so what? It's a great sensor in a hobbled body for $2k... who's buying it?
> ...



No chance it will be better, not when they are released in the same time frame... if a year had gone by then some new advance in sensor tech may have been implemented but not this soon.


----------



## shannon76 (Sep 17, 2012)

Meh said:


> justsomedude said:
> 
> 
> > I disagree on your assessment of this body. While I agree many people are underwhelmed by this offering, let's keep in mind that Canon is still in "catch up mode", trying to deal with how it will respond to the D800. This was likely in the pipeline long before some high MP body was conceived, and I think it fits in to the Canon lineup quite nicely.
> ...


I can definitely wait for 6 months at which point Adorama will offer this camera on Ebay for $1500.


----------



## unfocused (Sep 17, 2012)

lopicma said:


> Well... I think this camera sounds fine! It isn't too spiffy, and it isn't a PoS either. Now all we have to do is wait for the "shake down" to see what manufacturing problems crop up.
> 
> This is on my short list anyway... So many choices, so little money.



Exactly. People need to see this for what it is. And what it is is a modest update and upgrade from the 5DII introduced at several hundred dollars below what the 5DII sold for as recently as a year ago. 

Canon also left plenty of room for a 7DII, so this pretty much confirms to me we'll see a spiffy 7DII in 2013. Big decision for me will be which to choose. Just depends on how much they improve the 7DII sensor and how the 6D sensor and autofocus perform. 

Frankly Canon has me exactly where they want me. 7D owner looking for a second body: do I go with the 6D or the 7DII. They figure I'll choose one within the next year and then add the other in another year. They are probably right. Damn them.


----------



## Noink Fanb0i (Sep 17, 2012)

justsomedude said:


> Meh said:
> 
> 
> > mitch.o said:
> ...



You and other pros use SD cards???


----------



## bebopcola (Sep 17, 2012)

The big problem is when the 5DmkII came out nearly four years ago it's specs and price exceeded everyone's imagination. 

Now we have cameras for multiple target markets and price points that are coming in below expectations- either overpriced or oddly configured.

People want a revolutionary product for an amazing price. We live in a day and age where companies like Apple set consumer expectations very high and if a company like Canon isn't completely breaking the mold with every release, they need to turn on the PR machine or create a reality distortion field with their launches.

At the very least they need to educate consumers on the refinements that have gone into the products. How many people know what went into the 1Dx? If you glance at a spec sheet, you might miss it – The New Canon 1DX


----------



## Ryan_W (Sep 17, 2012)

Noink Fanb0i said:


> You and other pros use SD cards???



SDXC Cards are looking pretty good these days. I would guess that ditching the CF slot gave them room for stuff like WiFi and GPS.


----------



## Meh (Sep 17, 2012)

unfocused said:


> lopicma said:
> 
> 
> > Well... I think this camera sounds fine! It isn't too spiffy, and it isn't a PoS either. Now all we have to do is wait for the "shake down" to see what manufacturing problems crop up.
> ...



Hehe... fair enough... they already got me and many others on a 7D and a 5D2 so they must be doing something right.

But is this really a modest update for a 5D2... I have my doubts... if no AFMA then definitely not. The AF might be marginally better but not by much... 5D2 AF is fine in decent light and the centre point is ok even in dim light.

And SD cards... I won't say they're no good, speed is better than it used to be... but CF cards are still the better choice for the time being.


----------



## mitch.o (Sep 17, 2012)

Okay, Somebody sell this to me. Why do I need AMFA?


----------



## Meh (Sep 17, 2012)

mitch.o said:


> Okay, Somebody sell this to me. Why do I need AMFA?



Are you actually asking or you're posing a hypothetical scenario of how a salesperson would position it to a customer?


----------



## Noink Fanb0i (Sep 17, 2012)

If you have to ask, you don't need it. Don't worry about it. Worry about the other cripple-ware.


----------



## ishdakuteb (Sep 17, 2012)

i guess it is definitely an upgrade from 5d mark II. i would buy this for $2099 over 5d mark II (B&H current lists it for $1,899)... wonder when canon is going to retire 5d mark II? i think that they probably cannot sell 5d mark II anymore due to this new coming 6d.


----------



## DianeK (Sep 17, 2012)

RC said:


> DianeK said:
> 
> 
> > Meh said:
> ...


Sadly, I think this is exactly the thinking involved, both on Canon's part and the market they are aiming this at. I've been down the 60D route without AFMA and found that so frustrating I ended up picking up a used 7D. Buying used lenses that are not local sales where you can try them out are just not wise without AFMA. Oh well, I may as well stop ranting...I'm not buying a 6D, so it's time for me to "let go"


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 17, 2012)

mitch.o said:


> Okay, Somebody sell this to me. Why do I need AMFA?



So you get your pics in focus without having to send all of your equipment back (maybe more than once) for calibration (and again, paying for it, if it drifts over time). And you can adjust on spot as needed. Also it takes a while to send stuff to them and back (and stuff can get banged around during shipping), if they are busy and you get something new before a big trip or event, you me be SOL.


----------



## RC (Sep 17, 2012)

dilbert said:


> mitch.o said:
> 
> 
> > Okay, Somebody sell this to me. Why do I need AMFA?
> ...


... and it is even more critical on a FF than a crop


----------



## jrista (Sep 17, 2012)

I'm not really sure I understand Canon's tactics here. Unless the sensor really kicks ass and has stunning low ISO DR...Canon is really failing against the onslaught of Sony and Nikon. It would be interesting if Canon's reductions in megapixels actually meant they were solidly better pixels. If the 5D III is any indication, Canon is only making very marginal gains by reducing megapixel count. On the flip side, Nikon is packing 24mp of STEALLAR pixels in a full-frame camera and pairing it with a reticular AF system. 

Canon certainly answered the call of their customers to produce sensors with fewer megapixels...but thats only half of what we were asking for. We wanted those fewer pixels to be BETTER. Its rather confusing to see Canon's prime competition increasing pixels while concurrently improving their quality...on top of including better AF systems. Is Canon simply incapable of competing any more? I really want a full-frame camera, but I am so loath to spend the money on one when the grass is clearly greener on the other side of the fence(technologically speaking...I'll never leave Canon's support or glass.)

So much for anticipation...another (technologically) mediocre camera from Canon that, for some odd reason, will still probably sell like hotcakes. I would so much like to be REALLY EXCITED about a Canon camera...anytime Canon...any time, I'm here...waiting for some EXCITEMENT!


----------



## mitch.o (Sep 17, 2012)

Meh said:


> mitch.o said:
> 
> 
> > Okay, Somebody sell this to me. Why do I need AMFA?
> ...



No i'm actually asking. I have a t2i and a canon 50mm 1.4. I plan on soon including a 17-40 f4 and a 70-200 f4. Is AMFA something that will "break the deal"? (as they say)


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## Sony (Sep 17, 2012)

As far as I remember, people complained 5D MKiii a lot when it was just released, then it becomes a hit.
Now people are complaining the 6D. 
Anyone give 5D MKiii a wow? I do because I have one. LOL


----------



## Etienne (Sep 17, 2012)

Not too interesting to me. 
I thought it might have an articulated LCD. That would have made my life easier.
I'll stick with my 5DII, but I might pick up a Panasonic GH3 when it comes out, and a couple of their teeny tiny lenses: great video, highly portable, and small and light. I wish Canon had something to compete with it, but not yet.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 17, 2012)

RC said:


> DianeK said:
> 
> 
> > Meh said:
> ...



I can't see them taking out AFMA, the D600 has that, and leaving it out would really cripple the AF (unless you are really lucky and/or want to waste time sending stuff to Canon all the time for calibration).


----------



## Imagination_landB (Sep 17, 2012)

Ok let's read the name all togheter. 6...D... GREAT!. So logically spec'd under 5d's right? also they call it an ENTRY LEVEL full-frame. so what were you expecting? Yess over priced a bit, 1800 should be the price. It will for sure be better than the 5dmarkII since its a 5years old camera and the new sensors and digic5+ are better..but don't expect it to be as good as the markIII and I doubt very much that the IQ will be better, maybe near as good but never better , and for ISO eprformance wait until it comes out but 1/2 to a full stop worse maybe or as good but I don't think so.


----------



## Meh (Sep 17, 2012)

jrista said:


> I'm not really sure I understand Canon's tactics here. Unless the sensor really kicks ass and has stunning low ISO DR...Canon is really failing against the onslaught of Sony and Nikon. It would be interesting if Canon's reductions in megapixels actually meant they were solidly better pixels. If the 5D III is any indication, Canon is only making very marginal gains by reducing megapixel count. On the flip side, Nikon is packing 24mp of STEALLAR pixels in a full-frame camera and pairing it with a reticular AF system.
> 
> Canon certainly answered the call of their customers to produce sensors with fewer megapixels...but thats only half of what we were asking for. We wanted those fewer pixels to be BETTER. Its rather confusing to see Canon's prime competition increasing pixels while concurrently improving their quality...on top of including better AF systems. Is Canon simply incapable of competing any more? I really want a full-frame camera, but I am so loath to spend the money on one when the grass is clearly greener on the other side of the fence(technologically speaking...I'll never leave Canon's support or glass.)
> 
> So much for anticipation...another (technologically) mediocre camera from Canon that, for some odd reason, will still probably sell like hotcakes. I would so much like to be REALLY EXCITED about a Canon camera...anytime Canon...any time, I'm here...waiting for some EXCITEMENT!



Ahhh jrista my favorite voice of reason on camera tech... you nailed but I disagree it will sell well... because I can't nail down any large market segment that this fits. It's a FF Rebel but the price gap is too much to get a Rebel user to go up. And it's too limited/hobbled for enthusiasts/pros.


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## shannon76 (Sep 17, 2012)

So the 6D will have the Digic 5+ processor which is 17x faster than the Digic 4. Interesting.. Why is the Canon 5DII with 21MP at 3.9 FPS but the 6D with 20MP is only .6 FPS faster? It appears Canon is holding the 6D back. Come on Canon, is 5-6 FPS to much to ask for in a $2000 camera?


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## wahoophoto (Sep 17, 2012)

I have to say that I'm very underwhelmed. I'm an enthusiast and I've thinking about upgrading to a full frame for a while from the 7D. 5D Mark III is too expensive for a non-pro, and 6D specs aren't exciting at all for the price tag. I was really hoping for the 5D Mark iii sensor with less features, even though based on Canon's history it seemed unlikely they would do that. 97% viewfinder? C'mon Canon. Wireless/GPS is surprising coming from Canon, but considering everyone's phone has had those for years, it is severely overdue. 

I'll definitely wait to see how the reviews stack up between the Nikon D600 and 6D, but based on the specs I'm going to have to give serious consideration to a switch to Nikon. I have all EF-S glass anyway, so I'll have to sell my lenses either way. Other draw of the Nikon lineup is the 14-24.


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## Imagination_landB (Sep 17, 2012)

shannon76 said:


> So the 6D will have the Digic 5+ processor which is 17x faster than the Digic 4. Interesting.. Why is the Canon 5DII with 21MP at 3.9 FPS but the 6D with 20MP is only .6 FPS faster? It appears Canon is holding the 6D back. Come on Canon, is 5-6 FPS to much to ask for in a $2000 camera?


Exactly what I was thinkg too.


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## spinworkxroy (Sep 17, 2012)

Ah damm..
I was sooo looking forward to this camera as a 2nd body…
2 things kinda is a bummer to me.
1) 11AF point…only 11?
2) 97% viewfinder….100% should be a requirement for a FF!

Advantage…D600


----------



## mirekti (Sep 17, 2012)

it's more than around midnight EST : .
..wanna go to bed


----------



## mitch.o (Sep 17, 2012)

mirekti said:


> it's more than around midnight EST : .
> ..wanna go to bed



I'm gonna give it another 2 hours. I'm on Mountain Standard Time


----------



## shannon76 (Sep 17, 2012)

Imagination_landB said:


> Ok let's read the name all togheter. 6...D... GREAT!. So logically spec'd under 5d's right? also they call it an ENTRY LEVEL full-frame. so what were you expecting? Yess over priced a bit, 1800 should be the price. It will for sure be better than the 5dmarkII since its a 5years old camera and the new sensors and digic5+ are better..but don't expect it to be as good as the markIII and I doubt very much that the IQ will be better, maybe near as good but never better , and for ISO eprformance wait until it comes out but 1/2 to a full stop worse maybe or as good but I don't think so.


Following that logic, one would hope that the 6..D.. would be at least as good as the 7..D.. right?  Especially for $2000. Looks like that won't be the case though in many ways.


----------



## dr croubie (Sep 17, 2012)

shannon76 said:


> Imagination_landB said:
> 
> 
> > Ok let's read the name all togheter. 6...D... GREAT!. So logically spec'd under 5d's right? also they call it an ENTRY LEVEL full-frame. so what were you expecting? Yess over priced a bit, 1800 should be the price. It will for sure be better than the 5dmarkII since its a 5years old camera and the new sensors and digic5+ are better..but don't expect it to be as good as the markIII and I doubt very much that the IQ will be better, maybe near as good but never better , and for ISO eprformance wait until it comes out but 1/2 to a full stop worse maybe or as good but I don't think so.
> ...



There's not many ways this is better than the 7D, except for the size of the sensor.

heck, it's barely any better than a 5D2, and yet it's priced above where the 5D2 was lately...


----------



## DarkKnightNine (Sep 17, 2012)

I hate the way Canon tries to strategically plan how much NOT to give it's customers in order to milk us for money and get us suckling on their tit (basically locked into their system optically). By contrast, Nikon tries to give its customers as much as possible for as little money as possible. Then to add insult to injury, Canon overcharges us outrageously for any significant improvement (5D Mark III, 1DX, 24-70 Mk II). Yes all of these are better than the gear they replace, there's no argument there, but are they so far advanced to warrant the prices that Canon has charged us for them? I think not.


I'm sure the 6D will sell well but at the prices that we've paid for the 5D Mark III and 1DX shouldn't they have also included built-in Wifi and GPS? With this camera, Canon has proven that it had the technology to fit it within either form factor and this camera is just an insult to me as an owner of both bodies.


----------



## Imagination_landB (Sep 17, 2012)

shannon76 said:


> Imagination_landB said:
> 
> 
> > Ok let's read the name all togheter. 6...D... GREAT!. So logically spec'd under 5d's right? also they call it an ENTRY LEVEL full-frame. so what were you expecting? Yess over priced a bit, 1800 should be the price. It will for sure be better than the 5dmarkII since its a 5years old camera and the new sensors and digic5+ are better..but don't expect it to be as good as the markIII and I doubt very much that the IQ will be better, maybe near as good but never better , and for ISO eprformance wait until it comes out but 1/2 to a full stop worse maybe or as good but I don't think so.
> ...


As I said, entry level** fullf frame, and 7d is one of the very best aps-c camera on the market. two different categories too, FF vs APS-C. 5dmark II is surpassed by some of the specs of the 7d(i know its older)


----------



## floex712 (Sep 17, 2012)

steliosk said:


> how about the AF system? same as slow as 5D 2?
> 
> 
> Articulated LCD	: Fixed
> ...



Articulated screens are not built into bigger DSLRs because of weather sealing, meaning it comprimises it. I am surprised no one has ever brought that up.


----------



## Noink Fanb0i (Sep 17, 2012)

6D has built-in flash or this is a very good chop???


----------



## Meh (Sep 17, 2012)

dr croubie said:


> shannon76 said:
> 
> 
> > Imagination_landB said:
> ...



In fact it's worse than a 7D in every way but the sensor. And not fully better than a 5D2 but we are waiting on full announcement to know if it as AFMA.


----------



## friedmud (Sep 17, 2012)

wahoophoto said:


> I'll definitely wait to see how the reviews stack up between the Nikon D600 and 6D, but based on the specs I'm going to have to give serious consideration to a switch to Nikon. I have all EF-S glass anyway, so I'll have to sell my lenses either way. Other draw of the Nikon lineup is the 14-24.



I hate to be "one of those guys"... but I myself am in this same camp.

Just earlier today I was telling my wife that if the 6D is not great for Landscapes (read great at ISO 100) I'm selling all of my Canon gear and getting a D600 with a 14-24. So tired of waiting for Canon to get with the low ISO / wide angle program.

I have a mix of EF-S and EF lenses... but my main workhorse (17-55 f/2.8 IS) is EF-S... but is currently broken. I just can't bring myself to fix it because I want to go full-frame... but I tried buying a 16-35 f/2.8 and found it way too soft in the outer parts of the frame for how much money it costs. So I'm in limbo.... and the D600 looks like it might be the way to go.

BUT - I'm not jumping just yet. Going to see just how the 6D looks when it actually gets reviewed. We'll have to wait and see...


----------



## EvillEmperor (Sep 17, 2012)

wilddreamer said:


> i just hoping that when 6D come out, the price of 5D mark 3 will getting cheaper and i will get the mark 3 instead. thank you canon


Yea really. I don't get all the 7D and 5D MK II owners who want this badly. That'd be like an upgrade from the 50D to 60D. I actually think going from 7D to MK II isn't an upgrade either. Better low light and more MP really. I own the T2i,a nd am saving for a MK III.


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## Nathaniel Weir (Sep 17, 2012)

I can't believe I'm saying this, but the D600 blows the 6D out of the water in terms of specs... And that makes me sad :'( GPS is not really important... it just adds weight, kills battery, adds to price, and should be an optional feature to the camera. Think Canon EOS 6D-GPS for $2099 and Canon EOS 6D for $1899. The 11 AF point system is utterly pathetic, the 97% VF coverage isn't really any better than my old rebel, the 4.5FPS is lame considering the REBEL T4i is .5 FPS faster and $780 and the 6D is less FPS than the 5D mark III (considering they have the same Digic 5+processor and the 6D has less megapixels but maybe a weaker shutter mechanism idk), and no built-in flash (I don't necessarily want one but its one less feature that could come in handy in a pinch). I was seriously considering selling my 7D for this camera so that I could use my 5D Mark III as my main cam and the 6D as my backup, but... well... I guess I'll stick with my 7D backup for now. It seems that Canon was out of touch with consumers when making this product. And I am sad  I was really looking forward to this camera. Oh and by the way SD card slots... based on the 5D Mark III, which isn't compatible with UHS-1 cards, I doubt that the 6D will support UHS-1 cards which means that you can expect ridiculously slow playback write speeds  It better have class leading image quality!


----------



## Sony (Sep 17, 2012)

Yea really. I don't get all the 7D and 5D MK II owners who want this badly. That'd be like an upgrade from the 50D to 60D. I actually think going from 7D to MK II isn't an upgrade either. Better low light and more MP really. I own the T2i,a nd am saving for a MK III.
[/quote]
Yes, you are doing the right thing: put 5D MKiii in your dream. It was in my dream and now the dream comes true. It's very very worth it, 5D MKiii.


----------



## WoodyWindy (Sep 17, 2012)

There must be at least one typo in the specs that folks are grabbing from - the rear screen resolution simply can't be right. "102,400" is just over 500x200 dots - less resolution than some of the original DSLRs with sub 2 inch screens.


----------



## floex712 (Sep 17, 2012)

spinworkxroy said:


> Ah damm..
> I was sooo looking forward to this camera as a 2nd body…
> 2 things kinda is a bummer to me.
> 1) 11AF point…only 11?
> ...



No kidding, the only thing this camera is beating the D600 is the 1/8000 sec shutter speed. I can deal with the 4.5 fps, I can deal with the 20MP, I am perfectly fine with no on board flash, I never use it anyway, the built in wireless is wonderful and even the 5D mark III does max sync flash speed at 1/200 sec and I love it uses the same battery as 7D. However 11 AF points, COME ON CANON, WTF???!!! I would have been fine with an improved 19 AF points from 7D and 97% coverage, 100% should be REQUIRED FOR FF. I said it, I would give this camera till I see some test shots mainly at high ISO, if it lets me down on that, I'm getting a D600, PERIOD!


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## DarkKnightNine (Sep 17, 2012)

As an owner of the 5D Mark III and 1DX, this camera with it's shiny new built-in Wifi and GPS just feels like a giant kick it the balls. At the very least Canon should have built-in the wireless radio transmitter for firing the new flashes into the 1D series bodies. That would have proven that they had their customers needs in mind over lining their pockets with huge profit margins. Yes they would have made less profit than selling it as a separate unit but still won out in mind share (which leads to larger profits in the long run). As long as we just keep forking over our hard earned money without complaint, Canon has no reason to ever consider changing. It's time we get pissed off over their ridiculous corporate greed of late and voice it.


----------



## shannon76 (Sep 17, 2012)

Even though this post is titled "Official Specs" I think there will be a few typos/changes. Hopefully for the better. Where did these "Official Specs"come from. I don't see a rating??


----------



## RGomezPhotos (Sep 17, 2012)

This is a Super Rebel. And you know what? The Rebels are darn fine cameras. AND are great sellers. The t2i - t4i have gotten fantastic reviews. This will be a good upgrade choice for current Rebel owners. This means big money for Canon. Built-in WiFi and GPS? 20MP? This is a NICE camera. 

The 1DX and 5D3 should have come with built-in WiFi for those prices.... There's no excuse... I'm still pissed the 5D3 doesnt have a user-replaceable focus-screen, no dual CF slots and no built-in WiFi. The 5D3 is a PRO camera.

The 6D is an exciting camera. I'm REALLY interested in what their 7D2 will look like.


----------



## WoodyWindy (Sep 17, 2012)

WoodyWindy said:


> There must be at least one typo in the specs that folks are grabbing from - the rear screen resolution simply can't be right. "102,400" is just over 500x200 dots - less resolution than some of the original DSLRs with sub 2 inch screens.



I figured it out - 102400 is one of the expansion ISO numbers. I can pretty much guarantee it is NOT the rear screen dot count. Some proofreader must have goofed on the spec table.


----------



## Meh (Sep 17, 2012)

RGomezPhotos said:


> This is a Super Rebel. And you know what? The Rebels are darn fine cameras. AND are great sellers. The t2i - t4i have gotten fantastic reviews. This will be a good upgrade choice for current Rebel owners. This means big money for Canon. Built-in WiFi and GPS? 20MP? This is a NICE camera.
> 
> The 1DX and 5D3 should have come with built-in WiFi for those prices.... There's no excuse... I'm still pissed the 5D3 doesnt have a user-replaceable focus-screen, no dual CF slots and no built-in WiFi. The 5D3 is a PRO camera.
> 
> The 6D is an exciting camera. I'm REALLY interested in what their 7D2 will look like.



Really exciting? Are you buying one... your post implies otherwise. A nice upgrade for a Rebel owner... sure but how many are going to spend $2k on a body? Rebels are nice cameras... and they're $500 - $900.

The 6D is a very nice camera... but for these specs who's buying at $2k?


----------



## Meh (Sep 17, 2012)

Damn... where is the official announcement... is this all just a big hoax? We've been duped... discussing, debating, arguing for hours while staying up for the big announcement...


----------



## Meh (Sep 17, 2012)

DarkKnightNine said:


> As an owner of the 5D Mark III and 1DX, this camera with it's shiny new built-in Wifi and GPS just feels like a giant kick it the balls. At the very least Canon should have built-in the wireless radio transmitter for firing the new flashes into the 1D series bodies. That would have proven that they had their customers needs in mind over lining their pockets with huge profit margins. Yes they would have made less profit than selling it as a separate unit but still won out in mind share (which leads to larger profits in the long run). As long as we just keep forking over our hard earned money without complaint, Canon has no reason to ever consider changing. It's time we get pissed off over their ridiculous corporate greed of late and voice it.



Probably but not everyone wants those features and it adds weight and consumes power. The external flash controller gives you physical controls which is probably a lot easier than flipping around in menus?


----------



## killswitch (Sep 17, 2012)

Side by side comparison of 6D vs D600. Sigh.

http://www.dpreview.com/products/compare/side-by-side?products=nikon_d600&products=canon_eos6d&sortDir=ascending


----------



## nicku (Sep 17, 2012)

I said in an earlier post that is very possible that canon will discontinue the 7D series due to the new 6D FF camera. 

With those specs i really believe that we will see a 7D2 in the near future ( 1 or 2 Q 2013).

*Disappointing features *... 

11 AF points, ONE SD card slot, 97% frame coverage... for a 2k camera   

Nikon D600 is beating this camera in all specs with one exception shutter speed. The trend is reconfirmed ( that Nikon is wiping the floor with Canon in the last year and half).


----------



## jfretless (Sep 17, 2012)

maybe canon puts this in it's lineup so that rebel users surely would want to buy it.

...and everyone else staying with canon, spits on it and stretches their cash/credit to the 5diii. 

...and doesn't care about those of us that would jump to nikon for d600.

curse you canon! curse you!


----------



## dr croubie (Sep 17, 2012)

shannon76 said:


> Even though this post is titled "Official Specs" I think there will be a few typos/changes. Hopefully for the better. Where did these "Official Specs"come from. I don't see a rating??



Given all the hatred I've seen today, that whole list had better be one big typo/hoax to win any love back...


----------



## Musouka (Sep 17, 2012)

On a positive note, the presence of internal WiFi would probably compensate for the lack of an articulating screen. If Canon are smart, they would release a free software for PCs and mobile devices to enable full liveview control via a wireless connection.


----------



## RGomezPhotos (Sep 17, 2012)

Meh said:


> RGomezPhotos said:
> 
> 
> > This is a Super Rebel. And you know what? The Rebels are darn fine cameras. AND are great sellers. The t2i - t4i have gotten fantastic reviews. This will be a good upgrade choice for current Rebel owners. This means big money for Canon. Built-in WiFi and GPS? 20MP? This is a NICE camera.
> ...



What other FF can you buy at $2k? Nikon. That's it. If it has the same metal body as the 5D2, I'd consider it a darn fine camera. Built-in WiFi is HOT. I don't like the SD card... That's a real bummer. I'll wait for dpreview to do their comparisons.


----------



## DianeK (Sep 17, 2012)

nicku said:


> I said in an earlier post that is very possible that canon will discontinue the 7D series due to the new 6D FF camera.
> 
> With those specs i really believe that we will see a 7D2 in the near future ( 1 or 2 Q 2013).


I'm betting not. Why would they have gone to all the trouble with the firmware upgrade, and then fix that upgrade's bug if they were just going to replace it with a 7D2 soon? No, I think we will be waiting quite a while for that refresh to happen . The only real short-coming the 7D has is the sensor and I just have a feeling that Canon is really struggling in it's R&D for a better sensor for its top of the line crop body and they bought themselves more time with the firmware upgrade.


----------



## Tcapp (Sep 17, 2012)

DianeK said:


> nicku said:
> 
> 
> > I said in an earlier post that is very possible that canon will discontinue the 7D series due to the new 6D FF camera.
> ...



Kinda of a big shortcoming, don'tcha think? I agree it might be a while though. Too bad they can buy sensors from sony too. Sony sensor in an awesome canon body = the perfect camera.


----------



## dr croubie (Sep 17, 2012)

DianeK said:


> nicku said:
> 
> 
> > With those specs i really believe that we will see a 7D2 in the near future ( 1 or 2 Q 2013).
> ...



Me too, unfortunately.
Between the new 7D firmware, the 5D3 is too expensive, the 6D is just a 5D mk2.01 for too much $, the 7D is going to be my only digital body for quite some time (unless a 5D2 or 1Ds2 come past my eyes for less than $1000...)


----------



## dr croubie (Sep 17, 2012)

Tcapp said:


> Kinda of a big shortcoming, don'tcha think? I agree it might be a while though. Too bad they can buy sensors from sony too. Sony sensor in an awesome canon body = the perfect camera.



Don't forget to add in Pentax's pricing strategy (as in, "we're sinking, let's discount everything!")


----------



## Meh (Sep 17, 2012)

RGomezPhotos said:


> Meh said:
> 
> 
> > RGomezPhotos said:
> ...



Let me agree with you one more time... yes, it's a good camera. 

Now on to the question... are you going to buy? I think not, you've essentially said so. Now, is a typical Rebel user going to pay $2k for a body with the same specs but a FF sensor? I think not because they don't even know what a FF sensor is and how it might be better and the few who do are going to be a small market.


----------



## Tcapp (Sep 17, 2012)

dr croubie said:


> Tcapp said:
> 
> 
> > Kinda of a big shortcoming, don'tcha think? I agree it might be a while though. Too bad they can buy sensors from sony too. Sony sensor in an awesome canon body = the perfect camera.
> ...



+1 to that! Although, as a pro, price is not as important as function.


----------



## DianeK (Sep 17, 2012)

Tcapp said:


> DianeK said:
> 
> 
> > nicku said:
> ...


Yup, real BIG shortcoming. And as long as Canon won't admit that Sony has the best sensor technology right now and swallow their pride and just starting buying from Sony, we all lose. I love Canon glass + I think I would really like the D600 = baaad place to be


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## Pitbullo (Sep 17, 2012)

1/8000, Digic5+, 100% VF and good ISO range... The real specs are better than I feard, watching the rumors. However, the AF-system need to impress before I ever will consider this DSLR. I shoot with the old 9pt. system, and action is not easy! 
Other than the AF - system, this look OK. Not mindblowing, but OK.


----------



## Tcapp (Sep 17, 2012)

DianeK said:


> Tcapp said:
> 
> 
> > DianeK said:
> ...



Oh well. Give it time. Eventually, someday, MAYBE, canon will lose enough market share to have to kick their butts into gear in the R&D department. 

I once heard a very interesting answer to the question which is better, nikon or canon:

"Canon is the best camera you can get designed by engineers, Nikon is the best you can get designed by photographers."

Seems the roles have reversed? Nikon with the zero banding, greater DR, etc. Canon with the better af, lcd screen, viwefinder, frame rates, etc. Interesting, eh?


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## CanNotYet (Sep 17, 2012)

My question is: Price?
For 2k, this is a no-go. For 1.5k, Canon will OWN the FF market.


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## Musouka (Sep 17, 2012)

bebopcola said:


> People want a revolutionary product for an amazing price. We live in a day and age where companies like Apple set consumer expectations very high and if a company like Canon isn't completely breaking the mold with every release, they need to turn on the PR machine or create a reality distortion field with their launches.



Maybe two years ago. Have you seen the reactions to the iPhone 5? Many are calling it 'boring' and 'underwhelming' technology-wise. It certainly has less bells and whistles than many of its competitors. Apple is among the last manufacturers to support LTE. Despite this, Apple is confident they can continue to sell well, and they are, because they have faith in their ecosystem. It's working in the short run but the question is would it continue to work in the long run? Apple and, to a lesser extent, Canon are relying on their established reputations. It takes time to unseat a marketing force. Time will only tell.


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## Albi86 (Sep 17, 2012)

I'll remember this day as the day I became a Nikon user.

I didn't like Canon'r recent price policy, but I said to myself "let's wait, maybe the 6D will be worth staying with Canon". Quite obviously it's not. We all know Canon is lagging behind in terms of sensor technology, but the problem with this camera is certainly not the sensor - or at least not it alone. It's ridiculous to put the 6D and the D600 at the same price point. Some time ago Canon had the lead on lenses, nowadays this is not so true anymore. The reasons to choose/stay with Canon - unless you're heavily invested in glass - are hard to find; and if you're heavily invested in glass you're not buying the 6D anyway, so who's this camera at this price point for?


----------



## baronng (Sep 17, 2012)

I plan to sell all my canon gears now after knowing the spec of 6D

as I know what canon will never give me my dream camera

both D600/D800 are my dream cameras - I want built-in flash,100% VF, dual card slot,good AF system,reasonable price,good and cheap prime (those Nikon f/1.8 lenses, not the rip off price of canon 24-70 f/2.8L II)






Albi86 said:


> I'll remember this day as the day I became a Nikon user.
> 
> I didn't like Canon'r recent price policy, but I said to myself "let's wait, maybe the 6D will be worth staying with Canon". Quite obviously it's not. We all know Canon is lagging behind in terms of sensor technology, but the problem with this camera is certainly not the sensor - or at least not it alone. It's ridiculous to put the 6D and the D600 at the same price point. Some time ago Canon had the lead on lenses, nowadays this is not so true anymore. The reasons to choose/stay with Canon - unless you're heavily invested in glass - are hard to find; and if you're heavily invested in glass you're not buying the 6D anyway, so who's this camera at this price point for?


----------



## K3nt (Sep 17, 2012)

Let's go with the positives first.
- Builtin GPS & Wireless, no need for ultra-expensive add-ons. Nice!
- Full-frame with ISO down to 50, something my 7D can't do. Nice!
- Same battery packs as the 5D and 7D, very useful, for me at least.
- Some other small nifty features that sound nice, WB-bracketing etc.

The cons:
- Viewfinder at 97%, why? My 7D does 100% and I like it.
- 11 AF points, don't know enough to say whether they are good or "bad", but seems awfully "underpowered"
- No builtin flash, I use the builtin on the 7D to command remote flashes and it is quite a valuable feature for me.
- No CF, massive bummer for me, can't swap cards between cameras.

My verdict: As I have the 7D, this offers no reason compelling enough to go for this model. I will keep my sights on getting a 5D3 instead when I finally do go full-frame. OR, god forbid I become rich and can get me the 1D-X. 
But for someone starting out, why not? Certainly the list-price is high, but does anyone ever pay list-price? 

The way I see it is that, yes, it may be a let down for most people on this forum, but if I was just getting my DSLR now, I might go for this. Especially since a lot of my friends shoot Canon, which means I have access to a nice spectrum of lenses.

On another note, I haven't seen anyone yet that actually made the switch to Nikon, lots of threats, but seem more like a knee-jerk reaction to me. Yes, the Nikon sensor may be technically more advanced, but to me useability rates higher than pixel-peeping. Almost every Canon camera I've seen so far produces good images in the right hands.


----------



## Marsu42 (Sep 17, 2012)

hmmm said:


> mirekti said:
> 
> 
> > I totally agree!! unless they came up with a revolutionary sensor 8)
> ...



another +1 ... but Canon don't giving details on the sensor dr/iso performance doesn't sound too promising.

Btw. the 11 af points *have* to be all cross, everything else would be a bad joke @$2000+ and in comparison to the 5d2 and d600.


----------



## EchoLocation (Sep 17, 2012)

Albi86 said:


> I'll remember this day as the day I became a Nikon user.
> 
> I didn't like Canon'r recent price policy, but I said to myself "let's wait, maybe the 6D will be worth staying with Canon". Quite obviously it's not. We all know Canon is lagging behind in terms of sensor technology, but the problem with this camera is certainly not the sensor - or at least not it alone. It's ridiculous to put the 6D and the D600 at the same price point. Some time ago Canon had the lead on lenses, nowadays this is not so true anymore. The reasons to choose/stay with Canon - unless you're heavily invested in glass - are hard to find; and if you're heavily invested in glass you're not buying the 6D anyway, so who's this camera at this price point for?


this. the D600 dominates the specs on everything except GPS, wifi and touchscreen, these are consumer gimics though and aren't something I require in a 2000 dollar camera. what I do require is awesome AF, AFMA, and a 100% viewfinder. This camera has none. If you haven't bought the D800, D600, or 5DIII yet, I don't see how this camera presents anything new or even a new price point. 
If you're a beginner, moving up from a Rebel, this camera doesn't have a lot of sexy specs differentiating it from the 650D(especially AF!!!) and it's over 1000 dollars more. If you only have a kit lens or a couple of EF-S lenses I don't see why you'd choose this instead of switching to Nikon. If you do have a lot of Canon glass, and cant switch or don't want to, then you probably already have a 5DIII and aren't that interested anyways.
This camera absolutely baffles me.


----------



## bradleyg5 (Sep 17, 2012)

I think when you look at the speculated specs it's pretty clear it's 11 cross points at F/4 with a double cross point centre at F/2.8. I would consider that to be superior to the D600 because all the cross points on that camera are clustered in the centre.

I would consider this even better than the D800 which again has all the cross points in the centre. When I'm shooting portrait orientation I need that focus point at the top to be as accurate as the centre point. On the D800 you get a whole bunch of points at the top(in portrait) but they are all horizontal only points.




Marsu42 said:


> hmmm said:
> 
> 
> > mirekti said:
> ...


----------



## Woody (Sep 17, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> Btw. the 11 af points *have* to be all cross, everything else would be a bad joke @$2000+ and in comparison to the 5d2 and d600.



If this is true, then the camera AF is somewhat OK. For my use, only 5 super-accurate AF points are needed: one in the center and the remaining 4 on the intersection of one-thirds lines.

I'll get this in a heartbeat if I haven't got myself the 5D3 many months ago.


----------



## bakker (Sep 17, 2012)

Well, I've got the 5D mark III but I really don't see the point why this 6D gets built-in WiFi and GPS while the mark III does not.. The argument that it consumes the battery faster is not valid in my opinion. It should be possible to disable these functions in the menu for those that don't want to use them..


----------



## shannon76 (Sep 17, 2012)

Woohoo!! I didn't stay awake for nothing!!
http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/about_canon/newsroom?pageKeyCode=pressreldetail&docId=0901e0248065d8c4


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## nikkito (Sep 17, 2012)

The replacement for the 5D 2 is the 5D 3. I can't understand most of the complains here.


----------



## Ricku (Sep 17, 2012)

nikkito said:


> The replacement for the 5D 2 is the 5D 3. I can't understand most of the complains here.


The replacement for the 5D2 is unfortunately the D800.

The 5D3 is just.. Well, let's call it "5D2.5." 
They fixed the horrible AF, added 1 MP, and a few gimmicks like in camera HDR. That is hardly what I call a replacement..


----------



## daniel_charms (Sep 17, 2012)

*Canon EOS 6D Official Announcement*

The EOS 6D Digital SLR Camera Includes a New Full-Frame Sensor, Built-in Wireless and GPS

LAKE SUCCESS, N.Y.--(BUSINESS WIRE)-- Canon U.S.A., Inc., a leader in digital imaging solutions, today introduced the EOS 6D Digital SLR Camera, a versatile mid-range full-frame camera with the durability and performance professionals require and the creative imaging options serious photographers crave. Canon has coupled the incredible image quality of a newly designed 20.2-megapixel full-frame CMOS sensor and DIGIC 5+ Image Processor with the creative potential of built-in wireless transmitter and GPS features. The camera also includes an 11-point AF array and 63-zone dual-layer iFCL metering sensor together with 1080p Full HD video capabilities, in an affordable camera body. Building upon the qualities that made the EOS 5D Mark II camera so successful, the EOS 6D bridges the gap for budget-minded photographers, videographers and cinematographers who are eager to step up into the world of full-frame imaging.

“The introduction of this camera completes a well-rounded ecosystem from input through output for Canon, allowing us to provide the right combination of features for every level of photographer. We believe the EOS 6D Digital SLR Camera along with our new PIXMA Pro printers will help unlock the creative vision of so many who aspire to capture and display their artistic abilities,” stated Yuichi Ishizuka, executive vice president and general manager, Imaging Technologies & Communications Group, Canon U.S.A.

Designed for advanced amateurs and videographers making the move to a full-frame Digital SLR, the EOS 6D fits neatly into Canon’s professional imaging system with an advanced feature set including full manual options for creative control in addition to new and intuitive automatic settings to help even novice photographers capture great images. The camera’s construction helps meet the needs of professionals with a 100,000-cycle shutter durability and EOS Integrated Cleaning System for high-quality vibration-based dust removal. Among the many advancements in Canon’s new EOS 6D is the Company’s proprietary DIGIC 5+ Image Processor that powers the camera’s fast 14-bit analog-to-digital conversion for exceptionally smooth color tones and gradation. The camera offers a full-frame, 20.2-megapixel CMOS sensor and continuous shooting up to 4.5 frames per second (fps).

Thanks to the combination of its new CMOS image sensor and the powerful DIGIC 5+ image processor, the EOS 6D provides a wide ISO range from 100-25600 with a low setting, L: 50 and two high settings, H1: 51200 and H2: 102400. These outstanding low-light capabilities allow the EOS 6D to easily capture dimly lit scenes such as wedding ceremonies, indoor corporate events, or landscapes at dusk. To support the ample sensitivity of the new camera’s sensor, the EOS 6D camera’s Auto Focus (AF) system includes a newly-developed 11-point AF sensor featuring a high-precision center cross-type point with an exceptional EV -3 sensitivity rating for accurate focusing even in extremely low-light conditions.

The EOS 6D has a large 3.0-inch Clear View LCD monitor with 1,040,000 dot VGA resolution and 170 degree viewing angle, with high-transparency multicoating for maximum protection and clarity when viewing images or navigating menu screens. When used for Live View shooting, the camera’s bright high-performance LCD screen provides 100 percent coverage, for easy focusing and framing.

Full-Frame 1080p Full HD Video

Videographers, student filmmakers, and creative independent spirits will appreciate the full-frame video capabilities of the EOS 6D in an affordable and compact body. Borrowing from the best of the EOS 5D-series, the EOS 6D provides full manual control over exposure and audio levels while recording video. The camera features NTSC and PAL video modes at multiple frame rates, recording 1080p at 30 (29.97), 24 (23.976) and 25 fps, 720p at 60 (59.94) and 50 fps and standard video at 30 (29.97) and 25 fps. The camera provides up to 29 minutes and 59 seconds of continuous recording (with 4GB automatic file partitioning) in selectable All i-framei or IPB compressions with embedded timecode. Especially when used with large aperture lenses, the EOS 6D camera’s full-frame sensor offers a tremendous degree of creative control over depth-of-field, helping users to achieve pro-quality cinematic effects in Full HD video recordings.

Built-in Wireless and GPS

For the ultimate in DSLR connectivity and control, the EOS 6D features a built-in wireless transmitter which allows the camera to share images and video with the user’s choice of wireless devices such as select PowerShot cameras, smartphones, or tablets, as well as cloud-based destinations including social networking sites through the Canon iMAGE GATEWAYii iii. A very intuitive and useful wireless feature is the new, free Canon EOS Remote app available for iOS and Android systems which will allow a smartphone or wireless device such as a tablet to remotely connect, control and operate the connected EOS 6Div. This seamless connection and control will open new opportunities for professional photographers shooting weddings or remote wildlife, without the need for tethered operation or accessories.

For on-location shooters, landscape photographers or enthusiast photo travelers, the EOS 6D features a built-in GPS receiver to record longitude, latitude, elevation and Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) as EXIF data for seamless geo-tagging while shooting. The GPS coordinates are appended to each image and easily syncs with Canon software or mapping apps on social network sites to show image locations. Use of UTC data allows images to be chronologically mapped and trails plotted and recorded.v

Boundless Creativity

To help photographers unlock their full creative potential and explore all the different avenues of digital photography, the EOS 6D includes several creative modes for image capture. First is the HDR (High Dynamic Range) mode allowing the camera to capture three separate exposures and combine them in-camera for a stunning image capturing both enhanced shadow detail and bright highlights. Next is the camera’s Multiple Exposure mode where users can combine up to nine individual images into a single composite image, with no need for later computer post-processing. Four different compositing methods are provided for maximum creative control, including Additive, Average, Bright and Dark. Compositing results can be viewed in real time on the camera’s LCD monitor, and there is a one-step Undo command that allows photographers to delete an image and try again if desired. The EOS 6D will even allow photographers to specify a previously captured RAW image as the starting point for a new Multiple Exposure composite image. In addition to HDR and Multiple Exposure modes are Canon’s standard Scene Intelligent Auto and special scene modes to capture great images with ease. The camera is compatible with SD, SDHC, and SDXC memory cards including the new Ultra High Speed (UHS-I) cards.

Pricing and Availability

The EOS 6D Digital SLR Camera will be sold in a body-only configuration at an estimated retail price of $2,099.00 and it will additionally be offered in a kit version with Canon’s EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM zoom lens at an estimated retail price of $2,899.00. Both configurations are expected to be available in December 2012.

About Canon U.S.A., Inc.

Canon U.S.A., Inc., is a leading provider of consumer, business-to-business, and industrial digital imaging solutions. With approximately $45.6 billion in global revenue, its parent company, Canon Inc. (NYSE:CAJ), ranks third overall in U.S. patents registered in 2011† and is one of Fortune Magazine's World’s Most Admired Companies in 2012. In 2012, for the ninth consecutive year, Canon U.S.A. has received the PCMag.com Readers Choice Award for Service and Reliability. Committed to the highest level of customer satisfaction and loyalty, Canon U.S.A. provides 100 percent U.S.-based consumer service and support for all of the products it distributes. Canon U.S.A. is dedicated to its Kyosei philosophy of social and environmental responsibility. To keep apprised of the latest news from Canon U.S.A., sign up for the Company's RSS news feed by visiting www.usa.canon.com/rss.

†Based on weekly patent counts issued by United States Patent and Trademark Office.

All referenced product names, and other marks, are trademarks of their respective owners.

Prices, specifications and availability are subject to change without notice.

i UHS-I Card is required for All i-frame compressions
ii One time registration is required on CANON iMAGE GATEWAY.
iii This software enables you to upload images to social network services. Before uploading images, please be aware that image files may contain privacy related information such as people and places. If necessary, please delete such information. Canon does not obtain, collect or use such images or any information included in such images through this software.
iv Compatible with iOS version 5.0 or later and Android devices version 2.3/4.0 or later. Data charges may apply.
v In certain countries or regions, the use of GPS may be restricted. Therefore, be sure to use GPS in accordance with the laws and regulations in the country or region. Be particularly careful when travelling outside your home country. As a signal is received from GPS satellites, take sufficient measures when using in locations where the use of electronics is regulated.


Editorial Contacts:
Canon U.S.A., Inc.
Len Musmeci, 516-328-4884
[email protected]
or
Kevin McCarthy, 516-328-5950
[email protected]
or
Canon U.S.A. Web site:
http://www.usa.canon.com
or
For sales information/customer support:
1-800-OK-CANON
[email protected]

Source: Canon U.S.A., Inc.

(Source)


----------



## nikkito (Sep 17, 2012)

I would never buy a Nikon. I don't like them.


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## alfeel (Sep 17, 2012)

not sure if anyone already posted it: dpreview hand on  http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-6d/


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## shannon76 (Sep 17, 2012)

Here are the specs. Looks like only one cross type? Is that correct?

Autofocus

Type
TTL secondary image-forming phase-difference detection system with AF-dedicated CMOS sensor

AF Points
11 points

Center: cross-type at f/5.6; vertical line-sensitive at f/2.8.

Upper and lower AF points: vertical line-sensitive AF at f/5.6.

Other AF points: Horizontal line-sensitive AF at f/5.6.

AF Working Range
Center AF Point: EV -3 to 18 (at 73°F/23°C, ISO 100)

Other AF points: EV +0.5 to 18 (at 73°F/23°C, ISO 100)


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## Marsu42 (Sep 17, 2012)

shannon76 said:


> Woohoo!! I didn't stay awake for nothing!!
> http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/about_canon/newsroom?pageKeyCode=pressreldetail&docId=0901e0248065d8c4


"[...] the EOS 6D camera's Auto Focus (AF) system includes a newly-developed 11-point AF sensor featuring a high-precision center cross-type point with an exceptional EV -3 sensitivity rating for accurate focusing even in extremely low-light conditions."

* What about the sensor dr/iso in comparison to the 5d3/5d2 !?! No af pixels obviously, so what's new?
* Wi-Fi control is indeed exciting, could even go above magic lantern features (motion detect, ...)
* $2099 is too much, as usual for Canon. I expect they really mean $1999 and $100 pre-order fee.

EDIT: GPS has orientation sensor, so that's a real advantage in comparison to an external tagger unit


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## shannon76 (Sep 17, 2012)

Looks like the max shutter speed is 1/4000. Ugh.


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## Albi86 (Sep 17, 2012)

So in the end just 1 cross-type point in the centre?


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## killswitch (Sep 17, 2012)

Meh! Spec wise very anti-climatic. I cant see anyone from a 60D, 7D jumping onto this. No AFMA, No CF slot, view finder 97% really is a let down. 11 point as well, although depending on what sort of AF algorithm they have implemented on this 6D remains to be seen. For the price I feel the jump seems very short imho. 

Update: Ok, so it says in dpreview site there is AFMA borrowed from the 5D3


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## Marsu42 (Sep 17, 2012)

killswitch said:


> No AFMA



Where does it say that?



Freelancer said:


> IT IS REALLY ONLY 1 CROSS TYPE AF SENSOR!!!!
> _shakes his head in disbelieve...._



+1 ... it's really designed to be a rebelized 5d2, just one cross-type is absolutely arrogant considering even the rebels have all cross and the d600 ... no, I don't want to think about it.

An absolute pity though, the rest is quite ok, they even gave the 6d the silent shutter from the 5d3. The only really interesting thing is the wi-fi control.


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## Woody (Sep 17, 2012)

Only, 1 cross AF point. Grrrrrrrh...

From http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-6d/6:

"Whereas Nikon seems to have taken the approach of taking away as little as possible from D800 when creating the D600, Canon appears almost to have gone the other way, removing as much as it thinks it can get away with at the price. The result is the kind of conservative, slightly unimaginative design that's become the company's hallmark."

So, we get 3 duds in a single day announcement from Canon.

PS: Only consolation is the 6D gets the AF micro-adjustment from 5D3.


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## old_york (Sep 17, 2012)

I have to admit unfortunately that I'm not so outraged as everyone else. (sorry). :-[
I guess I must be more of the target market than some of you guys...(going from a 7d to FF to get better IQ, not pro, just enjoy shooting)
It's a camera; not one I'll buy now; (heck I probably would go for it if I hadn't already got the 5d3).

11 af....well 99% of the time I just shoot the centre one anyways and recompose. - What we really need to know is are they all double cross type or not. If they're not then yes I agree they've really crippled it just for the sake of it. 
GPS, agree with some people; it's not something that bothers me, wouldn't call it a gimmick as such, but not something I'd use.
Touchscreen. Can't see why people are so against these. You can disable it if you want, but otherwise iPhone style pinch to zoom is a great way of manipulating a review screen. I'm more bothered that its not a tilty/swivelly screen, which I could see being handy for interesting compositions..shooting from the floor on a low tripod for example. 

In terms of price (considering the wireless), 
WFT-E7A (for 5d3) - $780
WFT-E5A (for 7d) - $649
WFT-E6A (for 1DX) - $599
These are just Adorama's current prices, but they're fairly typical. - 6D to have wireless built in. If the $2099 is accurate, then you have to include 5 to 6 hundred dollars for something Canon would have made you buy separately. (Yes I know people will say - "its a feature I don't want anyway....I should be allowed to choose whether I get wireless", well yes but....stifling development and not giving us new features would mean that we'd all still be on video free stills cameras without review screens on the back. Heck if it had still been an opt in rather than something everyone expected we'd maybe all be back in Manual focus territory).

Feel free to disagree, was just my initial thoughts...but I really don't see it as that far off where it should be, (specs/price/market aimed at).


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## shannon76 (Sep 17, 2012)

I will snap one of these up in a heart beat..... at $1500. ;D


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## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

http://www.4-traders.com/CANON-INC-6492463/news/CANON-INC-Canon-Announces-Its-Smallest-and-Lightest-Full-Frame-Digital-SLR-Camera-for-Serious-Pho-15200226/

2099  That does it. They gave me what I don't want. Touchscreen, WIFI, GPS, HDR mode, WOW!!! Thanks for the memories?


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## Woody (Sep 17, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> killswitch said:
> 
> 
> > No AFMA
> ...



From http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-6d/3:

"The EOS 6D does, however offer the same AF microadjust as the 5D Mark III. Adjustments can be made separately for the wide and telephoto ends of zoom lenses, and can also be made per serial-numbered lens (should you have two copies of the same lens that require differing amounts of adjustment)."


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## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

shannon76 said:


> I will snap one of these up in a heart beat..... at $1500. ;D



In our dreams baby... only in our dreams. Time to go to the dark side?


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## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

Freelancer said:


> verysimplejason said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.4-traders.com/CANON-INC-6492463/news/CANON-INC-Canon-Announces-Its-Smallest-and-Lightest-Full-Frame-Digital-SLR-Camera-for-Serious-Pho-15200226/
> ...



yup. sorry, I misquote. no touchscreen indeed. I wonder what could be the justifying reason for 2099?


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## bradleyg5 (Sep 17, 2012)

bakker said:


> Well, I've got the 5D mark III but I really don't see the point why this 6D gets built-in WiFi and GPS while the mark III does not.. The argument that it consumes the battery faster is not valid in my opinion. It should be possible to disable these functions in the menu for those that don't want to use them..



I think it's because of the fact the 6D has a plastic top plate. The GPS won't work properly through magnesium alloy so you can't build it into pro body cameras without ruining the durability.


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## Albi86 (Sep 17, 2012)

Honestly, all in all, is what I've been saying for months.

D800 has always been a far better camera than the 5D3, which has always been ridiculously overpriced. Nikon could tune down some key features and realize a still very attractive camera at an attractive price point - considering it will only go down in a few months.

The 5D3 was already at the beginning a 5D2.5; it was impossible to tune it down while keeping it attractive. The best thing for Canon would have been to price the 5D3 between the D600 and the D800, basically competing with both of them. 

I pity the people who will waste their money on this 6D, it's not worth more than 1200$. No one interested in this sort of camera has a +5000$ lens collection, so switching to Nikon will not be painful.


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## shannon76 (Sep 17, 2012)

Give it 6 months after they start shipping and Adorama will run a crazy sale like they did on the 5DMIII. I can't wait. Good night all.


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## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

Freelancer said:


> verysimplejason said:
> 
> 
> > yup. sorry, I misquote. no touchscreen indeed. I wonder what could be the justifying reason for 2099?
> ...



I'm also very sorry for myself for buying lenses. Well, I guess it's not too late to change path. I think I'm not that deep yet. I'll let another month pass before I start selling my lenses.


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## Marsu42 (Sep 17, 2012)

Freelancer said:


> hell im not a moron.. i safe a bit more money and buy the 5D MK3.



That's exactly what Canon wants you to do. GPS heading and wifi control on the 6d are nice, though.



Albi86 said:


> I pity the people who will waste their money on this 6D, it's not worth more than 1200$. No one interested in this sort of camera has a +5000$ lens collection, so switching to Nikon will not be painful.



Few people will be thrilled w/ the 6d _at_this_price_ ... but if you shoot center point only the 6d is actually quite nice, and given the limited af coverage on ff the other 10 won't see much use if you don't shoot sports. 

It's the same as the the 5d3: Good camera, but ridiculously overpriced.


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## EchoLocation (Sep 17, 2012)

Albi86 said:


> Honestly, all in all, is what I've been saying for months.
> 
> D800 has always been a far better camera than the 5D3, which has always been ridiculously overpriced. Nikon could tune down some key features and realize a still very attractive camera at an attractive price point - considering it will only go down in a few months.
> 
> ...


Sad but true. IMO, the only way can could compete with what Nikon has at the moment is to put the 5DIII at 2500 dollars and the 6D and 1500 dollars. Then I would have preordered a 5DIII when it was announced. 
At this point, I won't be purchasing another Canon body except for possibly a used 5DIII in a few months... otherwise i'll probably buy the D600 if the reviews are great or the RX1. 
I wanted to be a die hard Canon fan, and was for a few years, but if you can't see that they are taking their customers for granted at this point then you're basically blind. This is 2012, i demand innovative, fun, cutting edge products that are competitive in the marketplace and offer upgrades in specs/quality at similar or lower prices.
IMO, this is a downgrade from the 5DII at a price that was higher than Adorama's price for the 5DII over a year ago!!!


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## zrz2005101 (Sep 17, 2012)

Albi86 said:


> Honestly, all in all, is what I've been saying for months.
> 
> D800 has always been a far better camera than the 5D3, which has always been ridiculously overpriced. Nikon could tune down some key features and realize a still very attractive camera at an attractive price point - considering it will only go down in a few months.
> 
> ...



sadly I am one of these people who can't really jump ships easily...  Canon what is wrong with you now !!!


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

I've got nothing more to say except Canon doesn't delight us anymore.


----------



## dr croubie (Sep 17, 2012)

verysimplejason said:


> I'm also very sorry for myself for buying lenses. Well, I guess it's not too late to change path. I think I'm not that deep yet. I'll let another month pass before I start selling my lenses.



Well, i'm too deep (at least, too deep to bother), so I might buy some off you.

But dammit, they're getting used on my 7D and EOS3 only, until there's something decent and affordable to put them on.

Maybe if i get a better job in a few years I might jump too, if the 5D4 and 6D2 are also price/performance disappointments...


----------



## Albi86 (Sep 17, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> Freelancer said:
> 
> 
> > hell im not a moron.. i safe a bit more money and buy the 5D MK3.
> ...



Sorry, but no, this time is different.

The 5D3 is all in all a capable camera with a few trump cards, and most of all is a pro camera; for a pro switching system is a lot of hassle, not worth saving few hundred bucks.

For the amateur it's all very different though, and 6D is just not up to today's standards. Not to yesterday's either, in all honesty. And being it so, the price is insulting. Price it 1200-1300$ and it will be a different topic.


----------



## weixing (Sep 17, 2012)

Hi,
A full frame 60D without flip screen... ha ha ha 

One feature interest me: center point cross-type and sensitive to -3 EV.

Since some report that 5D3 able to AF at F8 using 3rd party tele-extender and this 6D is a stop better than 5D3 at center point, so possible to AF at F11? If so, I might be interested to change my 60D to this... I only use the center point, so no problem with only center point is cross type.

Have a nice day.


----------



## zrz2005101 (Sep 17, 2012)

Albi86 said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > Freelancer said:
> ...



+1, was thinking about 5D3+400 f2.8 setup but now looking at d3s/d4+200-400f4 instead, Canon's own 200-400mm 1.4x is ridiculously priced


----------



## Marsu42 (Sep 17, 2012)

weixing said:


> Since some report that 5D3 able to AF at F8 using 3rd party tele-extender and this 6D is a stop better than 5D3 at center point, so possible to AF at F11?



Very doubtful. And from my experience w/ my 60d @f8, the best performance is with multiple af points - like the 5d3 with af point expansion.


----------



## onkel_wart (Sep 17, 2012)

If I understood this correctly the AF module is a new one that works under extreme low light conditions (better than the AF modules in the other EOS cameras) -- that sounds like good news to me.


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/professional/products/professional_cameras/digital_slr_cameras/eos_6d#Features

High Performance Composing and Focus 
The EOS 6D has an entirely new 11-point AF system for fast, accurate AF no matter the situation. With its new centered cross-type AF point with EV -3 sensitivity for improved performance and focus in low light, and a newly developed and bright 21mm eye point viewfinder with 97% coverage, the EOS 6D offers impressive performance in both composition and AF, even in the dimmest lighting situations. Offering not only One-Shot AF, AI Servo AF, and AI Focus AF, the EOS 6D’s AI Servo focus can be customized with tracking, acceleration and deceleration tracking sensitivities, and 1st or 2nd image priority adjustments. For even more customization, adjustment levels for the wide-angle and telephoto ends of particular lenses can be entered and recorded into the camera’s memory.

Only the center is cross typed. Minimum aperture @F5.6. No focusing @ F8.  Clearly this is not for sports or birders.


iFCL Metering with 63-zone dual-layering metering sensor 
The EOS 6D features Canon’s multi-layer 63-zone iFCL (intelligent Focus Color Luminance) Metering System that integrates the camera’s AF system into its readings. By taking into account the color and luminosity surrounding the chosen AF point(s), this system delivers accurate results, especially in situations where the light changes quickly. The metering sensor enables evaluative, center weighted, partial and spot metering, plus offers 5-step exposure compensation for perfectly exposed images, every time.


High speed continuous shooting up to 4.5 fps allows you to capture fast action. 
With continuous shooting speed up to 4.5 frames per second, the EOS 6D keeps up with the action. It is designed to capture the shots photographers want when shooting rapidly unfolding scenes.

EOS HD Video with manual exposure control and multiple frame rates 
The EOS 6D captures HD video with a level of sophistication on par with professional movie cameras, offering phenomenal performance on a DSLR. It offers both All-I (UHS-I memory card is required) and IPB compression, supports H.264/MPEG-4 AVC High Profile, and automatically splits files greater than 4GB (FAT specifications) for extended recording without interruption. It offers the option of timecoding during recording only (Rec Run) or at all times (Free Run), useful for multi-camera shoots. It also features improved sound recording adjustment capabilities, offering 64-step volume control accessible through the Quick Control screen, as well as a 3.5mm microphone terminal. The CMOS sensor’s drive system significantly increases image processor performance, reducing color artifacts and moiré (a common problem that occurs in scenes with horizontal lines), and ensures that the EOS 6D can record at a number of frame rates up to ISO 25600 in H mode.


----------



## zrz2005101 (Sep 17, 2012)

weixing said:


> Hi,
> A full frame 60D without flip screen... ha ha ha
> 
> One feature interest me: center point cross-type and sensitive to -3 EV.
> ...



I never saw guys with 5D3 focusing at f8, if there is, probably a minority, correct me if I'm wrong though. And what makes you think that sensitive to -3EV means that the 6D will focus at f11? It's more of the AF module like the 1DsIII 1DIV can focus at f8, but 1Dx(it can with 856+kenko according to Author) and 5D3 cannot


----------



## zrz2005101 (Sep 17, 2012)

and -3EV focus sensitivity really now Canon? And you gave us -2EV for 1Dx and 5D3, so we get a disadvantage in the most sophisticated AF module Canon has ever made in pro cameras that cost a fortune. dot dot dot


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

zrz2005101 said:


> weixing said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...



There's no focusing @F8 for 6D but AFMA is there.

High Performance Composing and Focus 
The EOS 6D has an entirely new 11-point AF system for fast, accurate AF no matter the situation. With its new centered cross-type AF point with EV -3 sensitivity for improved performance and focus in low light, and a newly developed and bright 21mm eye point viewfinder with 97% coverage, the EOS 6D offers impressive performance in both composition and AF, even in the dimmest lighting situations. Offering not only One-Shot AF, AI Servo AF, and AI Focus AF, the EOS 6D’s AI Servo focus can be customized with tracking, acceleration and deceleration tracking sensitivities, and 1st or 2nd image priority adjustments. For even more customization, adjustment levels for the wide-angle and telephoto ends of particular lenses can be entered and recorded into the camera’s memory


----------



## Marsu42 (Sep 17, 2012)

verysimplejason said:


> Only the center is cross typed. Minimum aperture @F5.6. No focusing @ F8.  Clearly this is not for sports or birders.



They're always writing that except on the old 1d-series - but it works just fine with Kenko extenders.


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

zrz2005101 said:


> and -3EV focus sensitivity really now Canon? And you gave us -2EV for 1Dx and 5D3, so we get a disadvantage in the most sophisticated AF module Canon has ever made in pro cameras that cost a fortune. dot dot dot



Don't worry. It's just in the center.


----------



## weixing (Sep 17, 2012)

zrz2005101 said:


> weixing said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...


 Some tested and work:
http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=3022

So I still had some hope... Anyway, I'll and see... if can and reliable, than I might switch.

Have a nice day.


----------



## Albi86 (Sep 17, 2012)

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/professional/products/professional_cameras/digital_slr_cameras/eos_6d#Specifications

Here it says that max shutter speed is 1/4000s. Also hadn't noticed that flash sync is only 1/180s.


----------



## zrz2005101 (Sep 17, 2012)

hmm I might try the 5D3 and test its f8 focusing functions, and 1/180s flash sync? That's an immediate no to me


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

Shutter Speeds 
1/4000 to 30 sec., X-sync at 1/180 sec. (Total shutter speed range. Available range varies by shooting mode.)


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

Native ISO

6D - 100-25600
D600 - 100-6400

I wonder if this means 6D is better in low-light...


----------



## Marsu42 (Sep 17, 2012)

From http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/professional/products/professional_cameras/digital_slr_cameras/eos_6d#Specifications ...

Center: cross-type at f/5.6; *vertical line-sensitive at f/2.8*.

... does this mean that with a f2.8+ lens attached, the center point degrades to non-cross ?!? This would be an anti-5d3/1dx af system which are tuned for f2.8 lenses.


----------



## DzPhotography (Sep 17, 2012)

I'm gonna get one anyway as back-up cam in let's say, 2 years or so ;D


----------



## Jotho (Sep 17, 2012)

Ricku said:


> nikkito said:
> 
> 
> > The replacement for the 5D 2 is the 5D 3. I can't understand most of the complains here.
> ...


I would argue that the ISO performance is pretty good on the 5D3.


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> From http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/professional/products/professional_cameras/digital_slr_cameras/eos_6d#Specifications ...
> 
> Center: cross-type at f/5.6; *vertical line-sensitive at f/2.8*.
> 
> ... does this mean that with a f2.8+ lens attached, the center point degrades to non-cross ?!? This would be an anti-5d3/1dx af system which are tuned for f2.8 lenses.



6D

Center: cross-type at f/5.6; vertical line-sensitive at f/2.8.
Upper and lower AF points: vertical line-sensitive AF at f/5.6.
Other AF points: Horizontal line-sensitive AF at f/5.6.

1DX

AF Points 
61-point AF
*One to five cross-type AF points at f/2.8, 10 to 20 cross-type AF points at f/4, and 15 to 21 cross-type AF points at f/5.6. (The number of cross-type AF points will differ depending on the lens.)

I think they're just the same except less AF.


----------



## Jotho (Sep 17, 2012)

verysimplejason said:


> Native ISO
> 
> 6D - 100-25600
> D600 - 100-6400
> ...


 ;D


----------



## Albi86 (Sep 17, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> From http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/professional/products/professional_cameras/digital_slr_cameras/eos_6d#Specifications ...
> 
> Center: cross-type at f/5.6; *vertical line-sensitive at f/2.8*.
> 
> ... does this mean that with a f2.8+ lens attached, the center point degrades to non-cross ?!? This would be an anti-5d3/1dx af system which are tuned for f2.8 lenses.



I noticed that too. Interesting question. It would make the 6D's AF the worst in years.


----------



## simonxu11 (Sep 17, 2012)

6D sample pics and videos
http://www.cameraegg.com/canon-eos-6d-sample-images-movies/


----------



## tomscott (Sep 17, 2012)

I think maybe people are asking a bit much.

Is the 6D designed to be a professional camera? I dont think so, although its product designation is quite confusing. But for the time being I think Canon will keep a full frame camera with its professional designation just to differentiate it from consumer crop cameras.

So really, I think of this as an XXD camera.

The 5DMKII was designed as a professional camera, and also its brother the 5DMKIII. Although the price has come down in Canons mind it is still a $3500 camera so releasing a new entry level camera at $2100 is acceptable. This will quickly reduce as the 5D MKIII's has.

Am I blown away no, am I angry no, am i disappointed... well a little but surprised no. I think it would have made sense to just use the parts bin to create a homologation of the 5DMKII and the 7D. But for an entry level camera this would be overkill and quickly kill the 5DMKIII although its what most people wanted. Also the complex AF is too much for people upgrading from XXXDs or XXDs, if anything the 11point will mean a seamless upgrade and the feel of the camera will not be too much of a change, and basically mean the photographer wont have to re-learn the skill. But heres hoping theres more than one cross type.

I am a photographer and am published in a lot of publications mostly newspapers. So I like crop, cheap cheerful and it works, basically have the privilege of printing on glorified toilet paper. So I was shooting on a 40D for a long time as I didn't like the newer cameras until the 7D. I only just bought a 7D a month ago as my second 40D died, and bought it because I am still waiting for the 5DMKIII to be where I want it to be in terms of price. So a 7D has filled in for now. 

Anyway am I the only photographer that thinks the 18mp sensor is absolute rubbish?? The 100-400ISO range which I shoot in most, is awful in comparison to the 40Ds 10mp. It is extremely noisy, not clean at all and there is a lot of banding! I read a lot on hear about it and poo poo'd the problems because I thought people were being overly critical as its a tech forum. But 800ISO and over is a great improvement, but most of my stuff is done in the 100-400 range. So I am extremely disappointed in the 7D for IQ which is what I want. Everything else about the camera is perfect IMO, but there is no point in having a great camera with poor IQ. 

So if we are real for a minute about the 6D. 

The 5DMKII will be discontinued very quickly to give the 6D a chance. Therefore once the retail units are snapped up the only real affordable full frame option for most is the 6D, its specs are not bad. 11 points is enough for the amateur. This camera is not for you 'would-be' prosumer or pro photographers. So those with the XXXDs XXDs and 7D that want better IQ than the poor 18mp sensor (Canon dont seem to want to drop), the only path is the 6D.

Not everyone needs the AF spec and speed of the 7D and it is overkill for most. For portraits and landscape I would say manual focus is more popular for accurate focus, it is with me, especially with landscape as you have the time. Live view with the 10x view is very helpful. Or if AF is to be used, single point with centre point is my chosen focus path. So this is a great camera! If we ignore for a second the 5DMKII and the D600.

But then the 5DMKII and the D600 come back into the frame. If this is a camera that is to be aimed at the amateurs wanting the best IQ then the 5DMKII has more MP count and is known to be a great performer IQ wise (we wont know about the 6D for a few weeks) and the camera will handle basically the same as the camera they are upgrading from, so a duck to water. At the moment it is cheaper and widely available. 

Then we have the D600, most amateurs will have some kind of brand loyalty but price and spec is everything to them the latest and greatest for the cheapest. Also how many have got a vast amount of money invested in lenses, so really its not a bad camera to switch to. Lets be fair although we dont like to admit it, Nikon are blowing the market out of the water atm and the D600 is a very compelling camera.

But the one thing canon has got going for it, its a pain to change. lenses are better and upgrading the body is simpler than changing systems. Also bodies are around what, 2-3 years? so even if it is not perfect some may still upgrade and have blinkers to the competition. It is more paramount for pros to have the best features as it could be the difference between being paid and not. But if we are talking amateurs just wanting to take pictures then not so much of an issue.

Then we get to price. It is double every APC body, near enough. It also needs all new lenses as EF-s or crop lenses wont work. The lenses are much more expensive, and cost/quality may be an issue as cheaper glass could result in poorer images than the older APC camera. But how many amateurs no this? Also no inbuilt flash, they are poor but useful for a quick portrait and you can get ok results with them. Now then will have to buy a $250+ flash and carry it around.

So this is pretty much grey area, the split between crop and FF has now shot them in the foot. Which is why I understand Nikon allowing adoption of crop lenses, although pointless in the grand scheme of things it does means they can have the new camera, without spending $3k with a lens. So really until the adoption of FF becomes more widely adopted this could be a success or a failure. We will have to see.

For the others that are pros or prosumers, the $600 is nothing extra to buy the 5DMKIII really. So the 5DMKIII is a really attractive purchase over the 6D and is where I am going I will order one in the next month or so.


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

Jotho said:


> verysimplejason said:
> 
> 
> > Native ISO
> ...



I hope 6D and 5D3 has almost the same ISO performance. They've got the same native ISO. If DR is a little bit better for 6D (even with less MP, here's crossing all my fingers + toes), then 6D will be a better option for me.


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

Albi86 said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > From http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/professional/products/professional_cameras/digital_slr_cameras/eos_6d#Specifications ...
> ...



I don't think so... 5D2 is still worse.

6D

Center: cross-type at f/5.6; vertical line-sensitive at f/2.8.
Upper and lower AF points: vertical line-sensitive AF at f/5.6.
Other AF points: Horizontal line-sensitive AF at f/5.6.

1DX

AF Points 
61-point AF
*One to five cross-type AF points at f/2.8, 10 to 20 cross-type AF points at f/4, and 15 to 21 cross-type AF points at f/5.6. (The number of cross-type AF points will differ depending on the lens.)


----------



## Marsu42 (Sep 17, 2012)

verysimplejason said:


> Albi86 said:
> 
> 
> > Marsu42 said:
> ...



... not if the 6d has *no* cross-type point at f2.8, just the added low-light sensitivity.


----------



## Albi86 (Sep 17, 2012)

tomscott said:


> But the one thing canon has got going for it, its a pain to change. lenses are better and upgrading the body is simpler than changing systems. Also bodies are around what, 2-3 years? so even if it is not perfect some may still upgrade and have blinkers to the competition. It is more paramount for pros to have the best features as it could be the difference between being paid and not. But if we are talking amateurs just wanting to take pictures then not so much of an issue.



Lenses _used_ to be better. Nowadays Nikon, Sigma and Tamron produce unquestionably good glass, especially for the amateur. And as an amateur, switching system is not that painful. My 2100$ are not going to a company which gives a camera that struggles against the 4 yo 1700$ 5D2.


----------



## cinema-dslr (Sep 17, 2012)

If they had to criple the body this much (5,6 crosstype, only sd ,97% viewfinder..etc)
Then the sensor probably would have been the succesor to the 18Mpx 1dx sensor they had to drop due to resent HiGH Mpx and dynamic range competition.
This would mean that this little camera could have the potentional to make briliant pictures/movies. in the later case you have to manual focus anyway


----------



## Marsu42 (Sep 17, 2012)

Albi86 said:


> Lenses _used_ to be better.



They might be still better in absolute terms esp. considering IS and af performance, but the latest releases are either very expensive (24-70) to ridiculously priced (tele primes) or very expensive and geared towards the video market (IS primes). So imho currently no need to buy Canon because of the lens selection alone.



cinema-dslr said:


> Then the sensor probably would have been the succesor to the 18Mpx 1dx sensor they had to drop due to resent HiGH Mpx and dynamic range competition.



That might be an explanation for the crippled af - but I guess if the "newly developed sensor" is really significantly better than the 5d3 version Canon would have mentioned it in their press release. Much more likely that sad, cold truth is that Canon does what Canon usually does to lower priced camera bodies - cut essential features (60d: afma, 6d: shutter, af) and add gimmicks.


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> verysimplejason said:
> 
> 
> > Albi86 said:
> ...



I guess you're right but at least it's more sensitive in low-light. Here's the comparison of 60D and 6D AF

60D
TTL-CT-SIR AF-dedicated CMOS sensor

6D
TTL secondary image-forming phase-difference detection system with AF-dedicated CMOS sensor

Do you think it's because of the phase detection system incorporated in 6D other than the contrast detection? Is it like the AF of 650D? I've used the 650D and compared it with my old 500D. I have to say 650D is light years away from 500D in terms of focusing. I'm using at that time the same lens.


----------



## DzPhotography (Sep 17, 2012)

cinema-dslr said:


> If they had to criple the body this much (5,6 crosstype, only sd ,97% viewfinder..etc)
> Then the sensor probably would have been the succesor to the 18Mpx 1dx sensor they had to drop due to resent HiGH Mpx and dynamic range competition.
> This would mean that this little camera could have the potentional to make briliant pictures/movies. in the later case you have to manual focus anyway


The successor to the 1Dx sensor? ;D

It's brandnew ???


----------



## Jotho (Sep 17, 2012)

verysimplejason said:


> Jotho said:
> 
> 
> > verysimplejason said:
> ...


 I shot at up to ISO 25600 a couple of weeks ago in Vietnam in some tunnels we went down, haven't finished processing them yet due to en emergency, but will do that soon, I hope they turned out fine, I have very good results from ISO 10000 so this will be interesting.


----------



## madmailman (Sep 17, 2012)

I haven't read all 16 pages so I'm not sure if this has already been posted. I checked the Canon (US) site and found some interesting things that are not quite the same as the CR "official specs" (or just missing).

*Shutter Speeds  * 1/4000 to 30 sec., X-sync at 1/180 sec. (Total shutter speed range. Available range varies by shooting mode.)

*AF Points  * 
11 points

Center: cross-type at f/5.6; vertical line-sensitive at f/2.8.

Upper and lower AF points: vertical line-sensitive AF at f/5.6.

Other AF points: Horizontal line-sensitive AF at f/5.6.


Here's the linky: http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_6d#Specifications


----------



## Albi86 (Sep 17, 2012)

madmailman said:


> I haven't read all 16 pages so I'm not sure if this has already been posted. I checked the Canon (US) site and found some interesting things that are not quite the same as the CR "official specs" (or just missing).
> 
> *Shutter Speeds  * 1/4000 to 30 sec., X-sync at 1/180 sec. (Total shutter speed range. Available range varies by shooting mode.)
> 
> ...



Yes, it was posted. And we were wondering if the central point is only half cross-type.


----------



## Gcon (Sep 17, 2012)

tomscott said:


> Anyway am I the only photographer that thinks the 18mp sensor is absolute rubbish?? The 100-400ISO range which I shoot in most, is awful in comparison to the 40Ds 10mp. It is extremely noisy, not clean at all and there is a lot of banding! I read a lot on hear about it and poo poo'd the problems because I thought people were being overly critical as its a tech forum. But 800ISO and over is a great improvement, but most of my stuff is done in the 100-400 range. So I am extremely disappointed in the 7D for IQ which is what I want. Everything else about the camera is perfect IMO, but there is no point in having a great camera with poor IQ.



You are spot on. I shot for a couple of years with the 5DII, and then bought the 7D as a backup, and a bit of a birder. I was horrified by the amount of noise at ISO100. I tried again using it in different situations. Sharp yes. Noisy - absolutely! It's horrible. It has sat in my spare bag for about a year - I just haven't got around to getting rid of it, but I haven't used it either.

If they brought out a 7DMarkII with some kind of huge base ISO noise improvements, and all other features the same (same 18MP), then I'd get one in a flash. It's unusable to me in its current form though.


----------



## bakker (Sep 17, 2012)

bradleyg5 said:


> bakker said:
> 
> 
> > Well, I've got the 5D mark III but I really don't see the point why this 6D gets built-in WiFi and GPS while the mark III does not.. The argument that it consumes the battery faster is not valid in my opinion. It should be possible to disable these functions in the menu for those that don't want to use them..
> ...



Ok, I can live with that!


----------



## Albi86 (Sep 17, 2012)

Found this:



> A cross-type sensor with an f/2.8-sensitive horizontal line and an f/5.6-sensitive vertical line will function as a cross-type sensor with an f/2.8 or faster lens, but if you use a slower lens, you'll still have a functional AF point (but with only single-line orientation).



http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Photography-Tips/Canon-EOS-DSLR-Autofocus-Explained.aspx


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

It seems 6D has a phase detection apart from contrast detection. That maybe the reason why its AF is a lot different from 5D2 or 60D. Maybe, it's a more advanced AF of 650D. I guess that why its AF is more expensive. I'm just perplexed that it's not cross-type @ center @ F2.8.


----------



## Marsu42 (Sep 17, 2012)

Albi86 said:


> Found this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yes, this is valid for the 1dx/5d3 outer af points - but Canon's 6d spec "cross-type at f/5.6; vertical line-sensitive at f/2.8" simply doesn't match this. Seems more like a desperate measure to make all people w/ f2.8+ lenses buy the 5d3.


----------



## Albi86 (Sep 17, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> Albi86 said:
> 
> 
> > Found this:
> ...



Why not? I understand that this is exactly the case, just vertical and horizontal are swapped in the example. 




verysimplejason said:


> It seems 6D has a phase detection apart from contrast detection. That maybe the reason why its AF is a lot different from 5D2 or 60D. Maybe, it's a more advanced AF of 650D. I guess that why its AF is more expensive. I'm just perplexed that it's not cross-type @ center @ F2.8.



Should be the opposite. Cross-type with f/2.8 or faster, non-cross with slower lenses.


----------



## aznable (Sep 17, 2012)

i think both 6D and D600 are a bit overpriced to be entry level FF camera...i dont linke both of them anyway


----------



## Viggo (Sep 17, 2012)

Maybe it's wise to wait to thrash a camera until after something other than a speclist is provided? The 6d will be able to focus in -3 ev so in that regard, it's even better than the 1d X.


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

This only means I need to get the 70-200 F2.8 IS USM if I want to do some sports photography part-time.


----------



## Albi86 (Sep 17, 2012)

Viggo said:


> Maybe it's wise to wait to thrash a camera until after something other than a speclist is provided? The 6d will be able to focus in -3 ev so in that regard, it's even better than the 1d X.



_Being able to focus_ and _being able to focus accurately_ are two different things though. The second part is our concern, given the AF system.


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

Viggo said:


> Maybe it's wise to wait to thrash a camera until after something other than a speclist is provided? The 6d will be able to focus in -3 ev so in that regard, it's even better than the 1d X.



Yeah I think so but the problem is when you compared it with D600. For those upgraders to FF, I think this is important since we are at the cross-road. However, I'll wait for some more testing by our so-called experts and for me to be able to see what upgrade path should I take knowing this will be for good this time. Right now, I have still the option since I'm not deeply invested in the lenses. I hope it will be cleared when the first of the 6D shipments come.


----------



## Marsu42 (Sep 17, 2012)

Viggo said:


> The 6d will be able to focus in -3 ev so in that regard, it's even better than the 1d X.



Sure - *if* you happen to shoot in the dark and *if* you don't have a flash with af assist light (or the distance is too far) and *if* your lens is still able to provide an acceptable shutter speed - that might exclude the kit f4 lens.

The question is how *precise* the af will be at all and at esp. at low light, otherwise it's useless. We'll have to wait until January to find out... to me, the 6d sounds more like a "high iq tourist camera" than d600 competition.


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

Albi86 said:


> Viggo said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe it's wise to wait to thrash a camera until after something other than a speclist is provided? The 6d will be able to focus in -3 ev so in that regard, it's even better than the 1d X.
> ...



+1. If they can only combine both.


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

If you were me, 6D vs D600? What do I choose? I'm not deeply invested in lenses so I can still switch. I'm mainly a landscape/macro/portrait photographer.


----------



## Viggo (Sep 17, 2012)

Oh well, I really don't care if *everybody* has decided this camera sucks after seeing a first speclist, I just think it's wrong. Everybody thrashed the 1d X for having only 18mp, it has better DR, noticeably! Way less noise, even at lower iso's, sharper and more fine detail than the 5d3 and it isn't exactly the only time this has happened. The 24-70 was thrashed because of the price, but hey people who hav. ACTUALLY used seems to think, hm it's expensive but it is the sharpest zoom ever made...


----------



## taperoo2k (Sep 17, 2012)

I think people need to calm down and wait to see how the 6D performs in terms of the IQ, AF system performance and ISO performance.
If they are good I will be going for the 6D. If not then I'll just have to be patient and save up for the 5D MKIII. 
Canon were never going to trickle down the killer features of the 5D MKIII to the 6D (aside from the Digic 5+ processor). As that would cripple sales.


----------



## Viggo (Sep 17, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> Viggo said:
> 
> 
> > The 6d will be able to focus in -3 ev so in that regard, it's even better than the 1d X.
> ...



Are you saying you already have forgotten just how much the 1d X has been put down by people who shoot all grey subjects in pitch black of how bad the lowlight af is? Also the same with the very long thread about 5d3 and weddings? Lol.


----------



## Hillsilly (Sep 17, 2012)

Two thoughts: -

NO DIRECT PRINT BUTTON = EPIC FAIL!!

But overall, probably not a bad little camera. 

In wishful thing mode, I wonder if Canon can add WiFi and GPS to the 5Diii as a pre-christmas facelift? That would make the 5Diii a very attractive proposition.


----------



## Rank_90 (Sep 17, 2012)

Hillsilly said:


> Two thoughts: -
> 
> NO DIRECT PRINT BUTTON = EPIC FAIL!!
> 
> ...



I Like that idea but doubt it very much!


----------



## itsnotmeyouknow (Sep 17, 2012)

I think that the pitch of AF points is more important than the number of points. I use single point AF 90% of the time and use hyperfocal technique. The thing that bugs me most about the 5D 3 is the noise banding. It has bugged me so much that I've bought the D800 which doesn't have this issue. It's frustrating to have a great lens producing a sharp image and then having to soften it by using Dfine when the image was shot at 400ISO or less.


----------



## Viggo (Sep 17, 2012)

It seems the 6D can be controlled by an Android or Iphone. That's pretty cool! People will make timelapps :   within the week. Remote LV anyone?


----------



## NotABunny (Sep 17, 2012)

Anybody know if the wireless can trigger the RT600? (I guess if it that were the case, the press release would say about it.)


----------



## Viggo (Sep 17, 2012)

NotABunny said:


> Anybody know if the wireless can trigger the RT600? (I guess if it that were the case, the press release would say about it.)



Not without the st-e3 I guess.


----------



## Viggo (Sep 17, 2012)

Only center-point crosstype.

Interchangeable focusing screens. (Ouch)


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

dilbert said:


> verysimplejason said:
> 
> 
> > If you were me, 6D vs D600? What do I choose? I'm not deeply invested in lenses so I can still switch. I'm mainly a landscape/macro/portrait photographer.
> ...



 I knew you'll say that. I'm leaning now to D600 but I'm still crossing my fingers + toes that 6D sensor will be better or at least perform somewhat close to D600. I love Canon colors. A lot of my friends are using Nikon but somehow they can't produce the colors of Canon. A lot of them got D90 and D7000 but they still envy my pictures. I'd hate to switch but as I said before, I'm at the crossroads. Whatever I choose, I know I'll stick with it for a very long time.


----------



## Noink Fanb0i (Sep 17, 2012)

Get a 5D2 for less than these 2 new FF cams.


----------



## pakosouthpark (Sep 17, 2012)

Viggo said:


> It seems the 6D can be controlled by an Android or Iphone. That's pretty cool! People will make timelapps :   within the week. Remote LV anyone?



that can be done already, http://www.dslrbot.com/


----------



## stevenprebble (Sep 17, 2012)

I am currently using a 7d and my work now is almost entirely video based. Because of this I am interested in full frame and in a perfect world I would love the 5dmarkiii but the price tag means it's out of my reach for a while. 
I wonder if this camera will offer me the things I need in the 5dmarkiii? Low light is a massive issue with my work and I know that the 5dmarkiii is near perfect at high iso. My 7d suffers badly from noise, even at mid iso levels. 

I guess time will tell!


----------



## Viggo (Sep 17, 2012)

pakosouthpark said:


> Viggo said:
> 
> 
> > It seems the 6D can be controlled by an Android or Iphone. That's pretty cool! People will make timelapps :   within the week. Remote LV anyone?
> ...



But then you need the transmitter? I was thinking with built in wi-fi it can be done directly. And you don't need line of sight.


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

Noink Fanb0i said:


> Get a 5D2 for less than these 2 new FF cams.



Can I still buy new @ a bargain price? Anyway, I'll patiently wait till we have some reviews.


----------



## Jason Beiko (Sep 17, 2012)

As a Canon 7D owner who mostly shoots landscapes I have been holding out for a full frame camera for the last year. This camera peaks my curiosity. I like the built in Wifi and GPS. The most critical factor for me is the performance of the sensor. If the DR is significantly improved then I will be very happy and will purchase as this allows me to keep my existing glass. If, however, the DR still lags significantly behind the the new Nikon(s) then I'm going to wait to see what Canon's high megapixel camera will offer in terms of sensor performance. If neither camera impresses then Im going to switch to Nikon and either get the D600 (depending on how the sensor performs) or D800e.


----------



## psolberg (Sep 17, 2012)

if this product was released in isolation, I could be more exited about it. But let's face it, it is expensive since we have 5DmkIIs and even D700s out there which match or best this camera in many areas and can be had for far less money second hand. And compared to the D600 which throws
7D+ grade AF system
100 %VF
Dual SD slots
5.5 fps
4:2:2 HDMI out.
2016 px RGB meter
Higher resolution.

Then it makes you wonder if canon has goten over the hubris episode where it ignores competitor's line ups and counts on its customer-lock in to keep going.

At least it lowers the entry to the FF video crowd like nothing else does so its shortcomings as a photography tool won't matter to them. And I just admit, I didn't think this camera was real since it seemed too much of a reaction to a nikon rumor.


----------



## a9000 (Sep 17, 2012)

For a traveling Zeiss (and other manual/alt lens) shooter the 6D seems perfect, rugged enough but lighter and smaller than the 5D2/3. 

It has interchangeable focusing screens, unlike the 5D3. Wifi/GPS I have no use for, but silent shooting mode is nice.

Also, getting robbed or smashing the camera to a rock somewhere will only hurt 60 % as much compared to the 5D3.

It will be interesting to see how the sensor performs, native iso 25600 sounds pretty good.


----------



## Fishnose (Sep 17, 2012)

verysimplejason said:


> I knew you'll say that. I'm leaning now to D600 but I'm still crossing my fingers + toes that 6D sensor will be better or at least perform somewhat close to D600. I love Canon colors. A lot of my friends are using Nikon but somehow they can't produce the colors of Canon. A lot of them got D90 and D7000 but they still envy my pictures. I'd hate to switch but as I said before, I'm at the crossroads. Whatever I choose, I know I'll stick with it for a very long time.



Ah yes... Canon colors. Well, that's easy. Use the vivid setting on any other make of camera and there you are - Canon colors!

Oh and anyway - RAW format lets you fiddle with your colors as much as you like in post.


----------



## Fishnose (Sep 17, 2012)

Albi86 said:


> tomscott said:
> 
> 
> > But the one thing canon has got going for it, its a pain to change. lenses are better and upgrading the body is simpler than changing systems. Also bodies are around what, 2-3 years? so even if it is not perfect some may still upgrade and have blinkers to the competition. It is more paramount for pros to have the best features as it could be the difference between being paid and not. But if we are talking amateurs just wanting to take pictures then not so much of an issue.
> ...



Yes, this is still a popular misconception amongst Canon users - that Canon produces better glass than Nikon. The reality is different. Nikon lenses are every bit as good as Canon. 
It may have been the case in 2004 when Nikon was still new on the DSLR market. But that was a long time ago.


----------



## Canon-F1 (Sep 17, 2012)

wifi.. have you who want wifi ever shoot RAW with one of the wifi grips?

imo it´s a useless feature for RAW shooter.


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

Fishnose said:


> verysimplejason said:
> 
> 
> > I knew you'll say that. I'm leaning now to D600 but I'm still crossing my fingers + toes that 6D sensor will be better or at least perform somewhat close to D600. I love Canon colors. A lot of my friends are using Nikon but somehow they can't produce the colors of Canon. A lot of them got D90 and D7000 but they still envy my pictures. I'd hate to switch but as I said before, I'm at the crossroads. Whatever I choose, I know I'll stick with it for a very long time.
> ...



Nope. You can approximate but color gradations is still different. A lot of Canon professionals will attest to that. Vivid settings for landscape? Portrait settings, very different. For landscape, you may argue that at vivid settings or more saturation/contrast/hue, you'll be able to approximate the colors for Canon and Nikon either way but for skin colors, I don't think so.


----------



## pakosouthpark (Sep 17, 2012)

seems to behave very well under low light conditions,
http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos6d/


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## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

pakosouthpark said:


> seems to behave very well under low light conditions,
> http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eos6d/



High ISO samples are still not available.


----------



## chadders (Sep 17, 2012)

Musouka said:


> On a positive note, the presence of internal WiFi would probably compensate for the lack of an articulating screen. If Canon are smart, they would release a free software for PCs and mobile devices to enable full liveview control via a wireless connection.



Which is exactly what they have "done".


----------



## pakosouthpark (Sep 17, 2012)

verysimplejason said:


> pakosouthpark said:
> 
> 
> > seems to behave very well under low light conditions,
> ...



yeah but at least on video, have you seen the film deep green? that shot that the girl is holding a lantern is nice!


----------



## Ryan_W (Sep 17, 2012)

The concept image for the 6D AF is interesting. It's more wide-set than I anticipated.

From Canon's product page: 







High Performance Composing and Focus 

The EOS 6D has an entirely new 11-point AF system for fast, accurate AF no matter the situation. With its new centered cross-type AF point with EV -3 sensitivity for improved performance and focus in low light, and a newly developed and bright 21mm eye point viewfinder with 97% coverage, the EOS 6D offers impressive performance in both composition and AF, even in the dimmest lighting situations. Offering not only One-Shot AF, AI Servo AF, and AI Focus AF, the EOS 6D’s AI Servo focus can be customized with tracking, acceleration and deceleration tracking sensitivities, and 1st or 2nd image priority adjustments. For even more customization, adjustment levels for the wide-angle and telephoto ends of particular lenses can be entered and recorded into the camera’s memory.


----------



## preppyak (Sep 17, 2012)

Fishnose said:


> Yes, this is still a popular misconception amongst Canon users - that Canon produces better glass than Nikon. The reality is different. Nikon lenses are every bit as good as Canon.
> It may have been the case in 2004 when Nikon was still new on the DSLR market. But that was a long time ago.


Well, it depends what you are looking to do. For example, the Canon T/S lenses are better by a decent margin. But the Nikon 14-24 is better than most other Canon ultra-wide's. Nikon doesn't really have quality, cheaper options like the 24-105L or the 70-200 f/4L IS, but when you get to the next step, they have some similar stuff. Also, their 80-400 isn't as well reviewed as the Canon 100-400. Prime wise, it depends on what you want, but both have decent variety.


----------



## psolberg (Sep 17, 2012)

verysimplejason said:


> Fishnose said:
> 
> 
> > verysimplejason said:
> ...



honestly, having shot both, post processing has made all of this color issues meaningless and neither system has any meaningful advantage. I'm more concerned about things post processing can't easily overcome. Like single exposure dynamic range which canon trails by a huge margin and the low ISO shadow banding noise that plagues canon sensors.


----------



## Marsu42 (Sep 17, 2012)

Ryan_W said:


> The concept image for the 6D AF is interesting. It's more wide-set than I anticipated.



The design shows they really managed to build the anti-5d3 af: no cross type sensor at f2.8+ ...

... this is ridiculous beyond belief, no way to give this a positive spin even if it's up to -3ev. I've shot for a long time with an analog eos620 with no cross-type sensor - the pattern detection simply isn't reliable enough if it's only one point. 



Ryan_W said:


> From Canon's product page: High Performance Composing and Focus



Canon marketing says otherwise? Well, I'm not quite convinced


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

psolberg said:


> verysimplejason said:
> 
> 
> > Fishnose said:
> ...



I have only color issues for portrait. I like Canon much better. For landscape or other types of photography, I have no issues with color. And yes, the dynamic range and the banding noise is what I don't want from Canon. The Canon sensor is way behind Nikon with regards to that. I almost always use HDR when taking landscape photos. I just tone the dynamic range and colors down to make it look real. The challenge is when taking something photos of something that moves e.g., sea, people (most often encountered with silhouettes). I hope they manage to increase the DR and tone down that ISO banding noise with 6D.


----------



## 7enderbender (Sep 17, 2012)

Helevitia said:


> I noticed it has 1/8000 instead of 1/4000.



Not according to the specs posted this morning on the US Canon website:

_Shutter Speeds 
1/4000 to 30 sec., X-sync at 1/180 sec. (Total shutter speed range. Available range varies by shooting mode.)_


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> Ryan_W said:
> 
> 
> > The concept image for the 6D AF is interesting. It's more wide-set than I anticipated.
> ...



Maybe it's another type of AF completely different from what we've seen so far? I'm going to give Canon the benefit of doubt.


----------



## Gothmoth (Sep 17, 2012)

verysimplejason said:


> Maybe it's another type of AF completely different from what we've seen *(in rebel cameras)* so far?




another type... you mean a good one? ;D


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

7enderbender said:


> Helevitia said:
> 
> 
> > I noticed it has 1/8000 instead of 1/4000.
> ...



I wonder, is this really a hardware limitation or they're just crippling it via software?


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

Gothmoth said:


> verysimplejason said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe it's another type of AF completely different from what we've seen *(in rebel cameras)* so far?
> ...



I don't know. My guess is as good as yours. If you go to Canon site here's the AF of 5D2: TTL-CT-SIR AF-dedicated CMOS sensor.
For 6D: TTL secondary image-forming phase-difference detection system with AF-dedicated CMOS sensor.

Different?


----------



## verysimplejason (Sep 17, 2012)

verysimplejason said:


> Gothmoth said:
> 
> 
> > verysimplejason said:
> ...



Here's the AF of 650D:

Type 
TTL-CT-SIR AF-dedicated CMOS sensor
AF Points 
9 points (All AF points are cross-type at f/5.6., Center AF point is diagonal cross-type at f/2.8.)


----------



## Ryan_W (Sep 17, 2012)

verysimplejason said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > Ryan_W said:
> ...



What has me intrigued is that the 6D will use the same AF tuning as the 5D3 and the 1DX, where you can set thresholds for focusing based on how subjects move across the points. It's possible that they've refined the software to the point where 11 AF points are acceptable for most shooters (accepting that this is not a camera built for high-end professional sports photography).

It would also explain why the AF points are so tall and long - maybe this AF system is more concerned with how subjects cross the zones as opposed to moving into individual points.

Either way, there's no way to tell if it will work or not until its put into practice. I think it's presumptuous to assume that only a multi-cross point AF system could be reliable.

Having used the 5D3 at work quite a bit, that AF system was overkill. I would tend to cluster my AF points so I can reach each zone with one push of the trigger in any direction. I find it's much faster and more reliable to move the camera slightly while pressing the stick once while autofocusing, as opposed to walking the cursor across 63 AF points one at a time; but that's a workflow that makes sense for me shooting fast action street photography like protests, riots, etc. Other people are doing studio or product photography and would need more selectable points. Some are shooting sports and need more coverage. Luckily Canon makes cameras for that.


----------



## mitch.o (Sep 17, 2012)

A thought I just had: There seems to be a lot of concern on this post as to who will buy this camera. That this camera won't sell well. And my response to this is.... Who cares? I would be totally fine if this camera only sells 1 unit worldwide (and that would be to me of course...). We should really be less concerned with Canon's sales numbers and more concerned with our own creative output.


----------



## 2n10 (Sep 17, 2012)

mitch.o said:


> A thought I just had: There seems to be a lot of concern on this post as to who will buy this camera. That this camera won't sell well. And my response to this is.... Who cares? I would be totally fine if this camera only sells 1 unit worldwide (and that would be to me of course...). We should really be less concerned with Canon's sales numbers and more concerned with our own creative output.



Best response I have seen on this thread.


----------



## Ryan_W (Sep 17, 2012)

mitch.o said:


> A thought I just had: There seems to be a lot of concern on this post as to who will buy this camera. That this camera won't sell well. And my response to this is.... Who cares? I would be totally fine if this camera only sells 1 unit worldwide (and that would be to me of course...). We should really be less concerned with Canon's sales numbers and more concerned with our own creative output.



You may have just defeated the entire purpose of the internet.


----------



## papercutMS (Sep 17, 2012)

I bet Canon sells a ton of these at BestBuy to soccer moms who will be told all about the benefits of a FF sensor and in a not so intimidating body.

Enthusiasts will most likely stay away as the excellent 5D2 offers a great value right now. Seriorsly Canon? One cross point AF point?!? Better snatch the 5D2s up while you can.


----------



## Ryan_W (Sep 17, 2012)

papercutMS said:


> I bet Canon sells a ton of these at BestBuy to soccer moms who will be told all about the benefits of a FF sensor and in a not so intimidating body.



Is this common on CR? - These 6D threads are pockmarked with posts where you're basically disparaging someone as unintelligent or lazy and concluding that only "those people" would buy something you don't want.

It's not just immature, it's also sexist, racist and classist. Stop generalizing people into "less than me" classes like "noobs" "soccer moms" "students" or any other kind of jim crow bullshit.

If you need more buttons and switches on your camera to feel like you're smarter than women whose kids play soccer, by all means, upgrade yourself to this beauty and leave the rest of us dumb losers to fiddle with our toys:

2D Photography Rube Goldberg Machine


----------



## AJ (Sep 17, 2012)

I'm disappointed that the camera has a pentaprism. I was hoping for pentamirror. That would have knocked down the price and weight even further. I'm looking for a lightweight travel/hiking cam. 

Curious set of specs, in all. Neither fish nor fowl.


----------



## pakosouthpark (Sep 17, 2012)

Ryan_W said:


> papercutMS said:
> 
> 
> > I bet Canon sells a ton of these at BestBuy to soccer moms who will be told all about the benefits of a FF sensor and in a not so intimidating body.
> ...



btw is not soccer! it's football


----------



## RC (Sep 17, 2012)

Yuck! No 5D/7D button layout for the 6D (6D on left, 5D on right)






(Dpreview: http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-6d/)

Ok, I'm done, I've ranted enough on this thread. Not buying a 6D.


----------



## willis (Sep 17, 2012)

Watched Jared Polin's quick look to 6D at Photokina.. and didn't really sold me to it, but at least it got that basic good feeling and grip!


----------



## cptobvious (Sep 17, 2012)

The only possible saving grace for the 6D is that, if this is like the 60D vs. D7000 situation, Canon has been more willing to drop prices to move cameras than Nikon. The D7000 beat the 60D in most specs but when it was still selling for $1200+ (mainly due to the Thailand floods), I was able to get a refurbished 60D for $640 + tax through CLP. Also, because the 60D was more clearly inferior to the 7D, Canon was able to sell both in fairly good numbers. I haven't seen numbers for D7000 sales and I imagine they were much better than 60D sales, but at the same time I would also wager that the D7000 took away a lot of potential D300S sales because of how good it was, whereas the 60D did not take away many 7D sales.

In this situation, I suspect more potential D800 buyers would be swayed to the D600 vs. 5D3 buyers swayed to the 6D. I also think Canon will more aggressively discount the 6D than the Nikon will the D600 next year.


----------



## pakosouthpark (Sep 17, 2012)

also why is this camera being sold only in december????????


----------



## dswatson83 (Sep 17, 2012)

It just feels like this camera was more of an attempt to hit a price point without trying to hit features of any other existing Canon camera rather than a model directed at a specific user base. 

They avoided competing with the 60D, t4i & 5D3 by lacking live AF from the t4i, no headphone jack like the 5d3 and no tilt screen of the 60D & 4ti, no clean hdmi out, and no dual card slots.

For photography it seems weak as it is lacking a decent AF system (even something like the 7D), no dual card slots, or at least a single pro CF slot if you can only have 1 (such as the 7D), only 3 bracket exposure vs 7 of the 5d3, way slower than the 5d3 or 7D, no flash, no 100% view finder, only 1/4000 max shutter speed, only 1/180 max flash sync, and usb 2.0.

Then it seems that since this resulted in a body to inexpensive, they added gps & wifi which few people need in a DSLR rather than adding back some of the specs they removed to not compete with the other cameras. 

It's a camera that seems weak no matter what area of photography you are in:
For sports - too slow and bad focus system, no CF or dual card slots, No 100%VF, no joystick, limited controls
For Wedding/Event - No dual card slot for backup, poor focus system, slow flash sync, No 100%VF, no af joystick
For video - No live AF, no swivel screen, no headphone jack, no clean hdmi, no dual cards for backup or overflow, no silent operation like the 5D3 or D600
For studio/landscape - No 100%VF, No Backup card, only 20MP vs the D600 & D800, limited DR most likely
For Travel/consumer - No popup flash, no card backup, no swivel screen, no live af, no touch screen 

What/who is this camera for. This is clearly Canon's attempt to produce a camera without stepping on any other camera's toes. 

Instead, the best camera for each item never include the 6D:
For sports - Buy the 1Dx, 7D, or even 5D3 (don't buy a 6D for this ever)
For Wedding/Event - buy the 5D3, 1Dx, then maybe a 7D or 6D (both have some negatives)
For video - Sony A99, 1Dc, 5D3, 1Dx, 60D, t4i, then maybe a 6D 
For studio/landscape - 5D3 or go Nikon because they are the best for this with the D800 & D600
For Travel/consumer - Nikon D600 or 5D3, t4i, then maybe i'd get a 6D


----------



## marceloshak (Sep 17, 2012)

I guess with the Canon 6D and Nikon D600 it´s the end of the semi-pro APS-C cameras, I think will not see D400 or 70D never.


----------



## marceloshak (Sep 17, 2012)

Tom W said:


> ...Kind of surprised that they didn't adapt the 7D's system to FF though...


I agree with you, I don´t know how much cost a FF 20 mp sensor but I think Canon maybe can produce a FF 7D for the same price of 6D.


----------



## Canon-F1 (Sep 17, 2012)

is it only because of bad canon sample images... or is the D600 so much better?

speaking about sharpness...


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 17, 2012)

Honestly, I am stunned that it only has one cross-type AF point (granted the points that turn non-cross on the 5D3 work a lot better than the old non-cross type) and no assist points which will certainly make tracking certain things trickier than even on the 5D2.

It also seems a waste of time to keep making so many different AF systems and sensors. Why not re-use the 5D3 sensor and then plop in the 7D AF (although one shot center point this new one may well do better). With all the time spent doing that maybe they could focus on better low ISO DR and giving 5D3 a complete set of basic video usage features, etc.


----------



## ishdakuteb (Sep 17, 2012)

Canon-F1 said:


> is it only because of bad canon sample images... or is the D600 so much better?
> 
> speaking about sharpness...



to early to say and keep in mind that sample images from canon are out of camera JPEG while nikon samples images were captured in RAW and post processed in NX Capture...


----------



## cliffwang (Sep 17, 2012)

I think that's very clear what are going to happen.
For EF lens owners 5D3 is much better choice especially people will see a lot of 5D3 deals during holiday season. 
For people have no EF lens, D600 is the one for you.
There is no reason to buy 6D.


----------



## K-amps (Sep 17, 2012)

dswatson83 said:


> It just feels like this camera was more of an attempt to hit a price point without trying to hit features of any other existing Canon camera rather than a model directed at a specific user base.
> 
> They avoided competing with the 60D, t4i & 5D3 by lacking live AF from the t4i, no headphone jack like the 5d3 and no tilt screen of the 60D & 4ti, no clean hdmi out, and no dual card slots.
> 
> ...



Great Analysis!


----------



## K-amps (Sep 17, 2012)

Canon must have been on the crossroads as to naming the new body. So what makes a body attain the xD moniker? It used to be FF's only. Then came the 7D. So then it became FF + pro bodies.

With the 6D, they had a cheap FF body with little to no; Pro features... they could have gone with an xxD name but since they have chosen the XD name, they have now limited themselves as "price" being the differentiator between a xD and non xD Body. 

So it seems.


----------



## Toronto (Sep 17, 2012)

Lets all see how well the camera really performs and to see real world raw image samples before we abandon canon. Tho I am very disappointed in the choice of SD cards vs CF already, canon seems to be pushing this camera as an upgrade path for rebel owners as most of us with 7D's and MKII's have alot of CF cards already. I want this to be an upgrade to my MKII but it's looking like it will be aback up body or I hand out the extra cash for a MKIII.


----------



## cliffwang (Sep 17, 2012)

dswatson83 said:


> It just feels like this camera was more of an attempt to hit a price point without trying to hit features of any other existing Canon camera rather than a model directed at a specific user base.



Agree. I am one of Canon users who has been disappointed by Canon for months. There are very understandable why Canon is not really doing good job.
1. Big market share. Using the market share power to provide high margin products to gain more money from its customers.
2. Many royal customers. Canon has too many royal customers. No matter how bad the price policy Canon has, its royal customers will pay for it. You actually can see many posts here are trying to find the excuses for Canon's high price policy.
3. Non-flexible product pricing and bad planing. I think Canon push 6D out because D600. Now what kind specs you want from 6D and that will not hurt its current products? 19 cross AF points + 24MP for 2500? That will have a big impact to 5D3. Or current specs for 1500? That will kill 7D and 60D. Thus, what Canon can do now?


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## Albi86 (Sep 17, 2012)

The saddest part is that this camera still has to be proven to be better than the cheaper and 4 y.o. 5D2. The AF _might_ be better, but that's it: less MP, 1/4000s shutter speed, 1/180s flash sync, etc...

I agree that Canon wanted to put on the shelves a camera @2100$, but with little intentions to sell it. Seems like they suggest customers to buy either the 5D2 (to clear their stock) or the 5D3 (so overpriced that they get a lot of money with each unity sold). 

Wi-Fi and GPS units are so cheap that nowadays every smartphone has them, so please let's not consider them as the important premium over the 5D2.


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## dara (Sep 17, 2012)

pakosouthpark said:


> Viggo said:
> 
> 
> > It seems the 6D can be controlled by an Android or Iphone. That's pretty cool! People will make timelapps :   within the week. Remote LV anyone?
> ...


they made their android apps
http://www.canon.co.uk/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/Digital_SLR/eos_remote.aspx


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## dswatson83 (Sep 17, 2012)

This reminds me of what happened when the 60D was announced. 50D owners were hoping for an upgrade and instead Canon put out a more consumerish 60D thus making the logical upgrade to the 50D the vastly more expensive 7D. This seems to be what Canon is doing here where instead of a 5D mark II or FF 7D competitor at a similar price, they have restricted some pro features and added wifi & gps to bring it to more of a rebel upgrade than pro model. Thus 5D mark II owners are forced to upgrade to the vastly more expensive 5D mark III.


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## zim (Sep 17, 2012)

It’s a FF Rebel nothing more nothing less
I’m happy with that. It’s good they included AFAM and quiet mode (surprised they included that) & 4.5fps is better that most were expecting, yes 1/4000 is a disappointment but hey remember - rebel
But none of that matters, I look forward to IQ tests and raw files analysis – when they can be processed correctly (remember the 5D3 debacle when images from that first appeared)
Then there is AF, lets have it tested first before condemning it out of hand, yes it may well be rubbish but please innocent before proven guilty.

5D3 is still plan A and the price is coming down but so far this looks like it may well be a descent plan B, for this rebel owner at least.

I await the meltdown when someone takes a photo with this thing with the lens cap on……..


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## DianeK (Sep 17, 2012)

dswatson83 said:


> This reminds me of what happened when the 60D was announced. 50D owners were hoping for an upgrade and instead Canon put out a more consumerish 60D thus making the logical upgrade to the 50D the vastly more expensive 7D. This seems to be what Canon is doing here where instead of a 5D mark II or FF 7D competitor at a similar price, they have restricted some pro features and added wifi & gps to bring it to more of a rebel upgrade than pro model. Thus 5D mark II owners are forced to upgrade to the vastly more expensive 5D mark III.



Yes, does seem like deja vu


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## 7enderbender (Sep 17, 2012)

mitch.o said:


> A thought I just had: There seems to be a lot of concern on this post as to who will buy this camera. That this camera won't sell well. And my response to this is.... Who cares? I would be totally fine if this camera only sells 1 unit worldwide (and that would be to me of course...). We should really be less concerned with Canon's sales numbers and more concerned with our own creative output.




I don't care either if they are selling a lot of these or not. I'm more concerned that the 5DII is now going to be discontinued probably and my 2-year old camera will be considered "too ancient to repair" - without having an appropriate replacement in that same price bracket (unless of course the Mark III starts getting into the <$2500 bracket at some point soon).


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## Ryan_W (Sep 17, 2012)

This from Engadgethttp://www.engadget.com/2012/09/17/canon-eos-6d-hands-on/:



> What really blew us away, though, is the new camera's size and weight. It's more compact than the 5D and even the 7D, an APS-C camera, weighing in at 690 grams -- a 20-percent decrease from that larger pro model. 20 percent may not sound like a tremendous improvement, but it's certainly noticeable, boosting the 6D's versatility, and making it an ideal choice for street and travel photography.



This is what I'm talking about. Ever carry a gripped 5dMkIII w/ bright glass on a four mile round trip hike through a city following a protest?

How about three so you can cover the whole focal range?

How about three with bright lenses _and a six foot stepladder_

I will be sufficiently able to overcome the loss of AF points by regaining the use of the muscles in both hands.


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## Marsu42 (Sep 17, 2012)

Viggo said:


> It seems the 6D can be controlled by an Android or Iphone. That's pretty cool! People will make timelapps



... for timelapses just install magic lantern, done - should drain less battery than constant wifi control btw.


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## kukhuvud (Sep 17, 2012)

Count in in with the people who will buy this as a backup one it drops below $1500US. Otherwise, I'm happy with my 5D3 with 7D as backup.


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## enraginangel (Sep 17, 2012)

I think what the 6D does is make the 5D Mark III more palatable for customers to buy. People balk at the features of the 6D and now the 5D Mark III doesn't look so bad. Give 6 months for people to trash the 6D and then Canon will introduce an even crappier camera to make the 6D look good by comparison. Canon is playing mind games with everyone.


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## Marsu42 (Sep 17, 2012)

enraginangel said:


> People balk at the features of the 6D and now the 5D Mark III doesn't look so bad.



High praise for the 5d3 indeed :-> ... but I fear you're correct, and the 5d3 price will stay just below $3000 for quite some time because Canon made sure the 6d is no "mini-5d3" but a high iq tourist camera.



kukhuvud said:


> Count in in with the people who will buy this as a backup one it drops below $1500US.



Some people might use it as a 2nd camera with a fast prime mounted and an exchangeable focus screen.


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## Ryan_W (Sep 17, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> enraginangel said:
> 
> 
> > People balk at the features of the 6D and now the 5D Mark III doesn't look so bad.
> ...



Alternatively I'm thinking of building a featherweight street shooter by pairing the 6D with the 40mm STM.


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## Meh (Sep 17, 2012)

mitch.o said:


> A thought I just had: There seems to be a lot of concern on this post as to who will buy this camera. That this camera won't sell well. And my response to this is.... Who cares? I would be totally fine if this camera only sells 1 unit worldwide (and that would be to me of course...). We should really be less concerned with Canon's sales numbers and more concerned with our own creative output.



Well... the simple and obvious answer to your question is that the people who are discussing it care. They may care for their own personal reasons or simply personal interest in such things. If you don't care then the posts don't concern you and you can choose to discuss other matters.

The more in depth reason is that this is a Canon gear site and it's full of people who care about Canon gear and all the intricacies of Canon's gear line up. They are interested in discussing a wide range of topics with like-minded people and value those discussions. Some people here work in the retail photography business and care deeply that Canon introduces products that will sell well and be commercially successful.

For my part, one area of my profession is market and product analysis and forecasting... I look at new products that are pitched to me and assess whether such a product will have mass appeal and be commercially successful. I'm also a camera gear-head so I enjoy these conversations, they are instructive to me. I'm also and investor and make investment decisions based on the direction I think large companies are going and that as well means it's valuable and interesting to dig deep into what drives consumer acceptance of product releases and whether a company like Canon still has it's wits about them or is struggling with product development that will have mass appeal or if they will start to lose market share over a 12-36 month investment horizon.

As Canon customers it's in our interests (to a degree) to hope Canon is commercially successful with their photography gear because it means they will continue to be profitable and develop new and better photography gear for us to buy, use, and talk about with our fellow photographers.

If you don't care about such things, don't respond. If you do respond your input is valued and desired, I would appreciate it and learn from what you have to say. You are one person and in the grand scheme of things your purchase decision doesn't matter and nor does mine. But the overall market forces do matter to product development.

Ok?


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## Albi86 (Sep 17, 2012)

Meh said:


> As Canon customers it's in our interests (to a degree) to hope Canon is commercially successful with their photography gear because it means they will continue to be profitable and develop new and better photography gear for us to buy, use, and talk about with our fellow photographers.



This is a myth.

If Canon puts crappy or overpriced products on the market and they sell well all the same, this is exactly what they will keep doing. As a Canon user you should only hope that they get their ass kicked so badly to never do that again.


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## Canon-F1 (Sep 17, 2012)

Albi86 said:


> Meh said:
> 
> 
> > As Canon customers it's in our interests (to a degree) to hope Canon is commercially successful with their photography gear because it means they will continue to be profitable and develop new and better photography gear for us to buy, use, and talk about with our fellow photographers.
> ...



yep canon needs to get the ass kicked badly so they produce GREAT cameras not good enough cameras again.


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## Meh (Sep 17, 2012)

Canon-F1 said:


> Albi86 said:
> 
> 
> > Meh said:
> ...



They do. They are the 1DX and 5D3... everything below those in the line will be "lesser cameras for a lower price". If what you're trying to say is that Canon should make a GREAT camera at every price point well that is subjective and certainly they won't shoehorn a 1DX into a cheaper body just so everyone can get one at a lower price. If what you're trying to say is Canon should make a variety of gear that meet specific market needs at price points that makes sense for the intended use and market segment then you are right. And that is the question, is the 6D with it's list of attributes, which are neither good or bad in absolute terms, a body that will be address a decent size market segment and at what price will it sell at... in my view I think it's too expensive as a next level up from a top end Rebel (since most Rebel users don't know and don't care about sensor size) and too hobbled to be of interest to enthusiasts and pros. But this could be wrong... there could be 50,000 enthusiasts out there that are lusting after a FF body and will sacrifice other features.


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## Canon-F1 (Sep 17, 2012)

Meh said:


> They do. They are the 1DX and 5D3... everything below those in the line will be "lesser cameras for a lower price".



the answer is NIKON... more camera for less money at the moment.


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## Albi86 (Sep 17, 2012)

How much is a good price? You only understand it by comparison with the competitors. In this respect I think that both the 5D3 and the 6D are at least 500$ overpriced. Next comes the question: do I want to buy it even knowing that I'm paying more than I should? In my case the answer is no.


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## mirekti (Sep 17, 2012)

Albi86 said:


> How much is a good price? You only understand it by comparison with the competitors. In this respect I think that both the 5D3 and the 6D are at least 500$ overpriced. Next comes the question: do I want to buy it even knowing that I'm paying more than I should? In my case the answer is no.



Agree!!!


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## Marsu42 (Sep 17, 2012)

Meh said:


> They do. They are the 1DX and 5D3... everything below those in the line will be "lesser cameras for a lower price".



The problem is that they cripple the "lesser cameras" so that they're not complete packages, but lack certain important features that force users who can cough up to money to "upgrade": no afma on the 60d (worse than 50d, solution 7d upgrade), no cross point af on the 6d @f2.8+ (worse than 5d2, solution 5d3 upgrade), let's see what's next.



Albi86 said:


> do I want to buy it even knowing that I'm paying more than I should?



The next question is: If I am paying more than I should, am I prepared for the 6d to drop $500 in price in no time?


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## Meh (Sep 17, 2012)

Albi86 said:


> Meh said:
> 
> 
> > As Canon customers it's in our interests (to a degree) to hope Canon is commercially successful with their photography gear because it means they will continue to be profitable and develop new and better photography gear for us to buy, use, and talk about with our fellow photographers.
> ...



Not sure what you mean by "myth" I don't think my statement is some kind of widely held but false belief. But you're right, if Canon puts out a product and it sells well they will take that as a market signal that they are on the right track and they would be correct in that assessment. If they put out a product and it doesn't sell they will lose money on it and hopefully try a different design next time. It doesn't even have to be an issue of whether the product is great or crappy... only whether it sells well... sometimes products are technically great but don't have mass market appeal. Sometimes crappy products are big winners.

I frankly don't have a strong opinion as to whether the 6D is a great or crappy camera. That is matter of personal preference. There is no question this body will appeal to some people and they will think it's great. Other people, will not be interested because it doesn't meet their needs or is not worth $2k to them.


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## kukhuvud (Sep 17, 2012)

Ryan_W said:


> Alternatively I'm thinking of building a featherweight street shooter by pairing the 6D with the 40mm STM.



That's an great idea


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## Meh (Sep 17, 2012)

Canon-F1 said:


> Meh said:
> 
> 
> > They do. They are the 1DX and 5D3... everything below those in the line will be "lesser cameras for a lower price".
> ...



That could be true... I don't dispute that because that is a personal choice that each consumer makes. The fact remains thought that Canon can and does make a GREAT camera. The 6D is also a great camera that is less capable but lower priced than a 5D3 or 1DX and some people will love it... but how many, is it a market winner, is Canon on the right track with their line up?

If the 6D was say $1200 the discussion would be entirely different... at that price it's easy to accept that the features are like a top end Rebel but it has a FF sensor. But's it's not $1200.... it's starting out at $2100 and might come down to $1600 in time but not likely lower... is it a winner anywhere in that price range?


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## Meh (Sep 17, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> Meh said:
> 
> 
> > They do. They are the 1DX and 5D3... everything below those in the line will be "lesser cameras for a lower price".
> ...



That's exactly right. All lower priced bodies will be less capable than the flagship model of course... but to your point, is this body crippled in ways that put it into a "no man's land" where it appeals to few people. If it's too crippled then enthusiasts/pros won't buy... and if it's priced too high then Rebel customers won't even consider it.


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## hawkins132 (Sep 17, 2012)

*Correction to 6D Spec - Max Shutter is 1/4000*

Just checked DP Review and verified on Canon's own site. The 6D's max shutter speed is 1/4000, not 1/8000 as stated on this site.

Another point: I originally got excite and thought this would make a fine backup to my Mark III. Now I realized this is not for pros, but for prosumers. However $1300 or so more than the 60D and even more for T4i is somewhat out of "upgrade" price range for non pros.

What Canon should have done is releasing this camera without GPS and Wireless. Hell, they could even release the whole thing in plastic (it's currently alloy body and top plate plastic) in order to get the price *down to $1500* or so, then they really have a winner on their hands. Most crop factor Canon users will want to upgrade.


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## Canon-F1 (Sep 17, 2012)

*Re: Correction to 6D Spec - Max Shutter is 1/4000*



hawkins132 said:


> What Canon should have done is releasing this camera without GPS and Wireless.



yeah that would probaly save 20$ in production cost.

every cheap phone has it today.... :

i think you got the wrong impression here.. the price is not so high because of the cost.


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## Britman (Sep 17, 2012)

*Re: Correction to 6D Spec - Max Shutter is 1/4000*

Also note the *Sync speed is 1/180s*. 
This camera is now off my list, time to get the 5D2 before they dry up completely.


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## hawkins132 (Sep 17, 2012)

*Re: Correction to 6D Spec - Max Shutter is 1/4000*



> yeah that would probaly save 20$ in production cost.



I highly doubt 20$ is all you save for non alloy body, no GPS and Wireless... This camera is aimed to prosumers that wish to upgrade. Canon need to price it for its targeted audience in order to be successful. Especially Nikon D600 already beats the 6D in most specs, the only way Canon can win in the entry full frame war as it stands is by price.


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## hawkins132 (Sep 17, 2012)

*Re: Correction to 6D Spec - Max Shutter is 1/4000*



> my phone has GPS, WIFI and bluetooth and costs less then 90 bucks. ;D



Actually your phone costs much more. Try to buy it as a replacement without warranty, or not as a new customer. The reason you're getting it for 90 bucks is because you signed the multi-year contract. They make money off your service, not your device.

Look at the GPS and Wifi add-ons for Mark iii and how much they cost.


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## brad-man (Sep 17, 2012)

*Re: Correction to 6D Spec - Max Shutter is 1/4000*

As this thing seems to be geared towards the video crowd, it's suprising that it has a touchscreen but not an articulating one...


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## hawkins132 (Sep 17, 2012)

*Re: Correction to 6D Spec - Max Shutter is 1/4000*



> wifi and gps is what he has quoted.
> 
> both features cost next to nothing today compared to the overall price of the camera.



I also stated the possible inclusion of ditching the alloy body and go all plastic. We're going off topic here, the point is* Canon needs to find ways to lower the price for the 6D to $1500 to be a WOW factor*. I've merely proposed a few ways I thought that are feasible, which I may or may not to be correct, as I'm not in the electronic retail industry.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 17, 2012)

*Re: Correction to 6D Spec - Max Shutter is 1/4000*

There are new posters who apparently do not know, or are ignoring the Canon model numbering system. The lower numbers are the better models. Thus, a 6D falls in between a 7D and a 5D, and its priced that way. The major cost element is still the sensor. Drop it to APS-C, and the price could easily drop to $1500.


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## jrista (Sep 17, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> Meh said:
> 
> 
> > They do. They are the 1DX and 5D3... everything below those in the line will be "lesser cameras for a lower price".
> ...



This is really the truth. I'm not sure why Canon refuses to compete on a level front with Nikon and Sony. Both companies put GREAT technology in all of their DSLR's, regardless of grade. Obviously there are some key differences, but in general you don't get a hyper-gimped AF system on an entry-level DSLR from Nikon...you get a competitive AF system with multiple cross type points and low-light sensitivity. Why won't Canon COMPETE?! This is getting rather pathetic. Its looking like we will have to wait another full generation before we see high DR sensors or reticular AF in any camera from Canon...let alone in every camera.


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## Canon-F1 (Sep 17, 2012)

*Re: Correction to 6D Spec - Max Shutter is 1/4000*



hawkins132 said:


> Actually your phone costs much more. Try to buy it as a replacement without warranty, or not as a new customer. The reason you're getting it for 90 bucks is because you signed the multi-year contract. They make money off your service, not your device.



nonsense!
every throw away phone has it today.



> Look at the GPS and Wifi add-ons for Mark iii and how much they cost.




LOL.. not really an argument.

i can buy a dedicated GPS tracker for 19 euros.


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## hawkins132 (Sep 17, 2012)

*Re: Correction to 6D Spec - Max Shutter is 1/4000*

And your dedicated GPS tracker won't work with your Canon, hence it's cost as such.


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## hawkins132 (Sep 17, 2012)

*Re: Correction to 6D Spec - Max Shutter is 1/4000*



> nonsense!
> every throw away phone has it today.



Yes, they don't make money off your phone, they make it off your service charge.


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## Canon-F1 (Sep 17, 2012)

*Re: Correction to 6D Spec - Max Shutter is 1/4000*



hawkins132 said:


> And your dedicated GPS tracker won't work with your Canon, hence it's cost as such.



it proves that the technology costs next to nothing. :


----------



## bkorcel (Sep 17, 2012)

*Re: Correction to 6D Spec - Max Shutter is 1/4000*

Oops thats the original version. To get 1/8000 you need to have some black tape installed.



hawkins132 said:


> Just checked DP Review and verified on Canon's own site. The 6D's max shutter speed is 1/4000, not 1/8000 as stated on this site.
> 
> Another point: I originally got excite and thought this would make a fine backup to my Mark III. Now I realized this is not for pros, but for prosumers. However $1300 or so more than the 60D and even more for T4i is somewhat out of "upgrade" price range for non pros.
> 
> What Canon should have done is releasing this camera without GPS and Wireless. Hell, they could even release the whole thing in plastic (it's currently alloy body and top plate plastic) in order to get the price *down to $1500* or so, then they really have a winner on their hands. Most crop factor Canon users will want to upgrade.


----------



## Canon-F1 (Sep 17, 2012)

*Re: Correction to 6D Spec - Max Shutter is 1/4000*



hawkins132 said:


> > nonsense!
> > every throw away phone has it today.
> 
> 
> ...



oh boy... you are wrong don´t make a clown out of yourself.

when i buy a throw away phone for 50 bucks that has GPS and WIFI and that i trash when there is no "charge" on it anymore... what are you arguing about.. you are wrong.. face it.

GPS and WIFI cost next to nothing.. period.


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## hawkins132 (Sep 17, 2012)

*Re: Correction to 6D Spec - Max Shutter is 1/4000*



> it proves that the technology costs next to nothing. :



No it doesn't. It proves how companies makes revenue off technology, so they provide the product to you under cost, or with loss in order to make profit off its service in the long run.

Example, when Play Station 2 released with the new Blue Ray at the time, official disclosure indicated Sony was taking loss of more than $100 to $200 loses on production cost, banking earning revenue via game titles and developer licensing.

In this case, Canon can't make service or revenue off your GPS or WiFi, so they need to price it accordingly to their production cost.


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## Meh (Sep 17, 2012)

jrista said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > Meh said:
> ...



Agreed. Canon is finally now releasing the full line up of the next generation after watching for too long... 1DX is great, 5D3 is great but pricey, then boom... the 6D is hobbled into oblivion but too expensive for average consumers and will still be too expensive when the street price comes down to $1600.

It would seem that Canon is absolutely out to ensuring that not a single customer that's on-the-fence between bodies makes the down-choice.

Initial sales might be strong as the first wave of customers who this camera is perfect for buy it... but then I think sales may drop. That may actually already be happening with the 5D3... pre-orders were strong and the first shipments flew off the shelf... but then last week there was apparently a sale for $2750? The most likely reason is that Adorama made a large order based on the strong pre-sales and then the bodies didn't move very quickly.


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## hawkins132 (Sep 17, 2012)

*Re: Correction to 6D Spec - Max Shutter is 1/4000*



> oh boy... you are wrong don´t make a clown out of yourself.
> 
> when i buy a throw away phone for 50 bucks that has GPS and WIFI and that i trash when there is no "charge" on it anymore... what are you arguing about.. you are wrong.. face it.



The throw away GPS and Wifi are easy to make, as they confine to industry mobile standards with existing blue prints, hence cheap to MASS produce, almost no cost to design and licensing. We're not taking aboutu GPS and Wifi for Canon.

Also, many throw away phone has refill options in many regions of the world, hence more revenue stream possibility.


----------



## K-amps (Sep 17, 2012)

Meh said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > Marsu42 said:
> ...



Making people wait 3-4 years for a model will make it fly off the shelves initially... but the 5d3 was not much of a exclusive game changer like the 5d2 was... equating the two by ignoring competition and getting lazy is where they faltered. The 20% price discount by a major retailer;* a day * before another overpriced release; only underscores where Canon marketing has their heads shoved.


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## Ryan_W (Sep 17, 2012)

Ditching WiFi and GPS probably would have knocked $20 of the production cost, but the perceived value to users is what's making up the price. The price drop without those items would have been substantially higher, at least as high as one of the separate attachments, which is what, $300?

Also, the Magnesium alloy was probably an effect of the price, not vice versa. The logic goes that if you're going to hit a price point, customers expect a certain build quality. I doubt the inclusion of exclusion would raise or lower the price, but the exclusion would certainly make people less willing to buy.

If you ask me, the new sensor is probably the source of the cost. A new sensor requires new fabrication techniques which requires new equipment, and sometimes even new factories. Others have rightly pointed out that Canon already has a few FF sensors in full production they could have used for cheaper. There may well be some new manufacturing process here that is underlying a major shift for them. haven't we read that these sensors will have larger photo cells than even the 5dMKIII had?

That suggests that they're testing a new technology (probably higher range and better noise reduction) on this camera since it will sell more units at a lower price and allow them to build more sensors and reduce the overall cost of production. That would set the stage for them to switch to the new tech (if indeed it is universal and not tied to the specific size of the sensor itself) in all cameras forthcoming. The unusually high price of the 6D indicates to me that it's an early adoption not just of a new brand, but of some underlying technologies.


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## Meh (Sep 17, 2012)

K-amps said:


> Meh said:
> 
> 
> > jrista said:
> ...



Totally agree... there was huge pent up demand for a 5D3 by customers that would order at almost any price. Beyond that initial demand the rest of the market is more price sensitive. Time will tell how robust 5D3 and 6D will be over the next 12 months.


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## brad-man (Sep 17, 2012)

Ryan_W said:


> Ditching WiFi and GPS probably would have knocked $20 of the production cost, but the perceived value to users is what's making up the price. The price drop without those items would have been substantially higher, at least as high as one of the separate attachments, which is what, $300?
> 
> Also, the Magnesium alloy was probably an effect of the price, not vice versa. The logic goes that if you're going to hit a price point, customers expect a certain build quality. I doubt the inclusion of exclusion would raise or lower the price, but the exclusion would certainly make people less willing to buy.
> 
> ...



On sensor focusing for the video crowd. Mirroless, STM lenses, etc...


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## Fishnose (Sep 17, 2012)

mitch.o said:


> A thought I just had: There seems to be a lot of concern on this post as to who will buy this camera. That this camera won't sell well. And my response to this is.... Who cares? I would be totally fine if this camera only sells 1 unit worldwide (and that would be to me of course...). We should really be less concerned with Canon's sales numbers and more concerned with our own creative output.



'Who cares?' - Canon cares. And their owners, their employees, their distributors, their suppliers etc etc. If this model is a total disaster it impacts everyone who holds a Canon or intends to do so. Lower profitability, less money for R&D, fewer new and useful products.

But you don't care....


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## rjhigh (Sep 17, 2012)

jrista said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > Meh said:
> ...



I own a sony a77 (in the process of trying to sell it), and the AF on it is pretty lackluster indoors and low light. I have no experience with nikon, but the af in the a77 is pretty much equivalent to the af in the 60d, which I also own and use as a backup to the 5d3 I bought because of how disappointing the a77 was. Apparently, instead of crippling af in lower models, Sony just puts the crappy af from lower models (a77) into it's flagship models (a99). 
The moral of the story is that the grass isn't always greener. I was going to convert to Sony to take advantage of the cool new tech, and made it 3-4 months before I went back to Canon. Sony flashes are also notorious for easily overheating and being worthless until they cool down. I had it happen to me on 3 separate occasions, one being in the middle of a wedding ceremony.
I have no experience with Nikon, but they used an af system from their aps-c camera as well, and a lot of people at nikonrumors weren't happy about that either.


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## dr croubie (Sep 17, 2012)

Fishnose said:


> mitch.o said:
> 
> 
> > A thought I just had: There seems to be a lot of concern on this post as to who will buy this camera. That this camera won't sell well. And my response to this is.... Who cares? I would be totally fine if this camera only sells 1 unit worldwide (and that would be to me of course...). We should really be less concerned with Canon's sales numbers and more concerned with our own creative output.
> ...



I care. I want this product to fail, and fail badly. It's 4 years too late, it's almost practically the same as the 5D mk2.
4 years ago it was innovative. 2012, it's boring, it's overpriced.
Canon used to be innovative, now they're just a fat loser (wearing an "I'm number 1 so why try harder" t-shirt) getting rich on successes of past years.
I'm not switching to another brand, I can't, too many lenses and not enough cash.
So that means I, the loyal Canon user, who was suckered in during their 'glory days' of 5D2, 7D, 1D4, can do nothing to 'upgrade', because there is no 'upgrade'. 5D3 is an 'upgrade', yes, but i don't have that kind of money. 6D is no more of an 'upgrade' that a 5D2, used or new, and the 5D2 is cheaper.

I hope D600 sells big. I hope the a99 sells big. I hope the K3 isn't just a pipe-dream and sells (as) big (as pentax can make it).
I hope the 6D bombs and bombs bad, so that canon are forced to re-think "now why did this suck balls so much?", and they come out with something that is truly revolutionary (like the 1Ds was, like the 5D2 was), not a backpedal (like 1D4 -> 1DX was for birds/wildlife), and not treading water like this 6D is (4 years later and what, it's got a gps and wifi chip? what else? uh, nothing? same pricetag, MP, AF, and worse sealing? No Thankyou.).


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## Stewbyyy (Sep 17, 2012)

I'm conflicted by this...

I'm very excited, this is pretty much everything I wanted; everything I hoped for. SD cards, LP-E6 battery, a good size, decent FPS (I like the 5-6 FPS range, not a fan of anything higher for what I shoot).

But two things have me asking "why?" and shaking my head in disappointment:
The AF system
The bloody touch screen

Why do Canon think potential buyers of this camera will want a touch screen? I just don't get it. Hopefully there's an option to disable it, if so then I have no problem with it.

The AF system though... this is disappointing. The camera is almost perfect, almost exactly what I wanted. But this AF system sound poor... one cross type point? Could they not have at least given it the 9 cross type point AF system in my 60D...
The reason I never upgraded from my 60D to the 5D Mark II was only because of the AF system, now, this hardly sounds any better at all.

I'm awaiting reviews of its AF performance, if it's not very reliable then I might just get the 5D Mark II and save a bit of money as well as getting a more solid camera.


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## Marsu42 (Sep 17, 2012)

Fishnose said:


> If this model is a total disaster it impacts everyone who holds a Canon or intends to do so. Lower profitability, less money for R&D, fewer new and useful products.



Don't despair  ... I'm sure Canon doesn't care much about the 6d failing or succeeding! They're a big enterprise and make their money elsewhere, the pro market dslr with its high revenues won't be affected anyway. The 6d just fills in the "ff landscape" gap left by the phased out 5d2 since not all people need the 5d3 af system.


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## jrista (Sep 17, 2012)

rjhigh said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > Marsu42 said:
> ...



Well, generally speaking I only include sony for their exmor sensor. I wouldn't consider Sony DSLR cameras as competition to Canon. The competition is in the Sony-Nikon alliance, and the amazing stuff that alliance is doing on the sensor front...both image and AF sensors. In the grand scheme of things, Canon is still amazing. I'll take Canon glass any day over the competitions. But, for all people will tell you, glass is only half the story. Good glass won't get you better DR if the sensor simply can't do it.


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## tome223 (Sep 17, 2012)

Just got home and haven't dove thru the 25+ pages of messages on this topic....but as a 60d shooter hoping to upgrade to full frame by Christmas I am extremely disappointed with the 6d. Namely, just the 11 points of af and the 1/180th flash sync. How the 60d has 1/250th flash sync and the 5d mark iii has 1/200th and the 6d has 1/180th is just mindboggling. I even notice a difference with the waving hands of my toddler using 1/180th vs 1/250th f;ash sync.

Couldn't have Canon at least given us 15 af points even if they didnt want to give us the full 19 af points of the 7d??????

I'll hope the 7d mark ii isnt as disappointing.


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## Helevitia (Sep 18, 2012)

If the 6D turns out to have IQ closer(meaning more than 50% from the MK2) to the MK3 with good ISO up to 6400 and the AF system turns out to be fast and accurate with low AF, do you think it would be worth upgrading over the 7D?

I ask because I bought the 7D in May anticipating an entry-level FF camera by year's end. Unfortunately, like everyone else, I was a bit disappointed. After soaking in all the info over the past two days, my thoughts are:

- wifi and gps seems to be a gimmick and will be mostly useless after a few months
- If the IQ is great(KR seems to think it's almost as good as the MK3), this would make it much more worthy
- Hopefully the AF system is new and improved.
- My one big complaint about the 7D is the poor ISO, even at 400. Too much noise. If the 6D can perform good with 6400 ISO that would beat out the MK2, this would be a very strong selling point for me. I literally use NR on almost every image, even down to ISO 200.

Anyhoo, just wanted to see if people think I'm off my rocker or something else?


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## jfretless (Sep 18, 2012)

Helevitia said:


> If the 6D turns out to have IQ closer(meaning more than 50% from the MK2) to the MK3 with good ISO up to 6400 and the AF system turns out to be fast and accurate with low AF, do you think it would be worth upgrading over the 7D?
> 
> I ask because I bought the 7D in May anticipating an entry-level FF camera by year's end. Unfortunately, like everyone else, I was a bit disappointed. After soaking in all the info over the past two days, my thoughts are:
> 
> ...



I don't see the 6D as upgrade or replacement for the 7D. It's not the same kind of camera. I've had my 7D for almost as long as it has been out and they will have to pry it from my dead hands to get me to part with it. 

Why not keep your 7D and enjoy it's features and benefits. 

And if you feel that you really need a FF and can afford a $2100 price pointer, buy a 6D to add to your kit.

Two separate beasts in my opinion.


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## DianeK (Sep 18, 2012)

Meh said:


> If the 6D was say $1200 the discussion would be entirely different... at that price it's easy to accept that the features are like a top end Rebel but it has a FF sensor. But's it's not $1200.... it's starting out at $2100 and might come down to $1600 in time but not likely lower... is it a winner anywhere in that price range?



Yup, they are marketing a $1200 camera for $2100. Maybe someone in Canon marketing is dyslexic :


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## AJ (Sep 18, 2012)

Stewbyyy said:


> But two things have me asking "why?" and shaking my head in disappointment:
> The AF system
> The bloody touch screen
> 
> ...



I agree with you about the AF

However the touch screen will be a step forward. You'll be able to drive the AF point with your thumb on the screen. This is why the joystick is gone. Big step forward.


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## dr croubie (Sep 18, 2012)

AJ said:


> Stewbyyy said:
> 
> 
> > But two things have me asking "why?" and shaking my head in disappointment:
> ...




FYI: No Touchscreen


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## AJ (Sep 18, 2012)

ok then nevermind


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## pakosouthpark (Sep 18, 2012)

dr croubie said:


> AJ said:
> 
> 
> > Stewbyyy said:
> ...



no touchscreen and price to remain the same? or at least could have a swivel one!


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## kirillica (Sep 18, 2012)

Does anyone know which Wi-Fi classes it supports?


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## Marsu42 (Sep 18, 2012)

tome223 said:


> Namely, just the 11 points of af and the 1/180th flash sync. How the 60d has 1/250th flash sync and the 5d mark iii has 1/200th and the 6d has 1/180th is just mindboggling.



Doesn't really matter except for 2nd curtain, just use hss - the 6d has no pop-up flash so all your external flashes will likely support it. And 1/180s x-sync is not that much slower than 1/200s - full frame curtains are larger and thus 1/250s is easier achieved on crop. But of course the 1d 1/300s x-sync is made to differentiate it from the "budget" 5d3/5d2.



pakosouthpark said:


> no touchscreen and price to remain the same? or at least could have a swivel one!



I guess the 6d components are derived from the 5d3 production line, thus no swivel/touchscreen. Would certainly have been nice and added a feature that would make the $2099 price more realistic... so why no built-in flash, Canon?


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## Viggo (Sep 18, 2012)

I see quite the difference between the 1d X at 1/250s and the 5d3 at 1/200s, so a concern about 1/180s is valid. And the statement, just use hss isn't a valid one, for anyone who need a normal amount of power and also want to freeze action, you just can't use hss. It won't freeze action nor give anywhere near enough power.

I really miss the 1/300s sync of the 1d4, but the X being fullframe I guess it's not possible...

All tip being said, the 6d is entrylevel, these are the things they chop off the 5d to make it small and cheap.


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## Hillsilly (Sep 18, 2012)

dr croubie said:


> FYI: No Touchscreen



Imagine how cool a touch screen would have been. 11 AF points, plus the ability to select a focus point anywhere on the touchscreen (in photo mode and continuous video AF) would negate a lot of the negative sentiments about the AF system. Rather than being a step backward from the 5Diii, it would just be "Different" to the 5Diii. Given the 650D has a touch screen, I'm rather surprised Canon haven't rolled all of the cool tech into this one - even if it would have added a bit to the sale price.


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## MintMark (Sep 18, 2012)

Maybe you'll be able to do all those cool things when you're using your smartphone to control the camera over wifi?


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## robbinzo (Sep 18, 2012)

I've got to agree that the AF is dismal. See the comparison chart on the link below.

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-6D-Digital-SLR-Camera-Review.aspx

It has one cross type AF point in the center. For a camera costing £1800 in the UK that is unacceptable. As a Rebel owner looking to upgrade, I am looking for a better AF system, not this pile of crud.
Wifi and all the bells and whistles are nice to have but pretty much pointless if you can't get your image focused.
Seriously thought, WTF were Canon thinking?


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## pedroesteban (Sep 18, 2012)

Has anyone noticed this diagram in the Amazon.com 6D page?







The focus points seem to be more like lines than points. 

The AF system comparison done by The-Digital-Picture.com shows that the 1DS3 also has these linear sensors as focus assist points:

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Photography-Tips/Canon-EOS-DSLR-Autofocus-Explained.aspx

Are these linear sensors any better than the regular 5D II points at tracking moving subjects?

By the way, this AF system comparison is very interesting. Why aren't people complaining that the 1DX AF covers a smaller area of the sensor than the 1D IV? Is the sheer number of AF points the most important feature of an AF system?


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## Albi86 (Sep 18, 2012)

pedroesteban said:


> Has anyone noticed this diagram in the Amazon.com 6D page?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



As far as I understand it, it means the the center point is cross-type only with lenses f/2.8 or faster. Otherwise it behaves as a normal non-cross point.


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## Marsu42 (Sep 18, 2012)

Albi86 said:


> As far as I understand it



Nope, a lot of people got that the center point wrong including me, here's the explanation: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=9458.msg171516#msg171516

... concerning the non-cross points on the 6d, we'll probably have to wait for real hardware reviews to know how they perform for one shot or servo af.


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## Albi86 (Sep 18, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> Albi86 said:
> 
> 
> > As far as I understand it
> ...



That would mean that the cross is composed by 3 lines (2 working a 5.6 and one at 2.8), but I find no back-up on Canon website for that assumption. How can you say that?


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## Marsu42 (Sep 18, 2012)

Albi86 said:


> That would mean that the cross is composed by 3 lines (2 working a 5.6 and one at 2.8), but I find no back-up on Canon website for that assumption. How can you say that?



You've got to ask the op (see my link), but Dr. Neuro usually is 100% reliable concerning this type of information and the specs as I understand them match his explanation.


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## neighborsgoat (Sep 18, 2012)

Please, please stop referring to the 6D as the "FF Rebel", even if this is what Canon intends it to be! I would like not to have the "Rebel" name dragged in the dirt, for the Rebel series is one of the most successful DSLR lines a camera building company ever had. It was a Rebel (350D) which brought me to digital reflex bodies and I remember that I had to yearn for almost a year until I could afford it. And this WAS NOT because it was overpriced, but because I could barely afford it back then. Which is not what happens now with the 6D. 

It was the very same Rebel which brought me to improving my shooting skills, so much that I clearly understood that improvement would not require a newer body, but a better lens lineup. THAT was the future move to make, and I was happy I made it! This is why I kept shooting my 350D Rebel for 6 and a half years, without even changing the battery, for the original one was and still is good for use!! And when I bought my first and second L glasses I still shot them on the 350D, until had the opportunity to upgrade to the body I was hoping to get. I really doubt someone will ever will say the same in 6 years from now, about the 6D. 

It was the L lens lineup which brought me to immediately upgrading this year to 5D3. Yes, I also felt deceived by the fact that the Nikon D800 was a different beast and was upset that I will spend 500 USD more than on the competitor's body, still I never had the remorse for that money, because the 5D3 is (at least for my criteria) the camera I was expecting to get. This sadly cannot be told about the 6D. Paired with my L glasses, the 5D3 delivers as required, the only failure factor being at the moment the person holding the gear. 

I stare at this 6D, read the specs and simply cannot believe my eyes. It's like picturing myself in a dream, staying in front of the Canon people and asking them: "OK, so what did you do with that 500 USD extra me and other photographers were willing to pay for my 5D3?" And they pull out the 6D out of a drawer and throw it in my face like a rock!


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## Albi86 (Sep 18, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> Albi86 said:
> 
> 
> > That would mean that the cross is composed by 3 lines (2 working a 5.6 and one at 2.8), but I find no back-up on Canon website for that assumption. How can you say that?
> ...



Makes little difference anyway. It's a fact that in the best case it's a 1-and-a-half cross, which puts it below the double cross fetaured by much older and less expensive cameras.


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## neighborsgoat (Sep 18, 2012)

Ok, I apologize for being maybe too emotional, but sadly this is how I feel, and I see others as well.

Oh, and one more thing, for those who thought of the 6D as a second body, paired with a main 5D3: When rapidly switching from one body to another, good luck with the different button and controls setup, especially the integrated "joystick wheel"!


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## Albi86 (Sep 18, 2012)

neighborsgoat said:


> Ok, I apologize for being maybe too emotional, but sadly this is how I feel, and I see others as well.
> 
> Oh, and one more thing, for those who thought at the 6D as a second body, paired with a main 5D3: When rapidly switching from one body to another, good luck with the different button and controls setup, especially the integrated "joystick wheel"!



I understand your feelings - the 6D is quite likely the camera that will make me jump ship. You can already find the D600 for 1920€ in Italy, and Nikon Italy offers 4 years warranty for free. I'm sure the 6D will be better in low-light performance, but I'm not planning to shoot iso 12800 hand-held in the darkness and without flash so often, and in the worst case you have live view for accurate focusing. I prefer the better low-iso performances, cross points working at f/8, the better selection of sub-100mm lenses and the more MPs.


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## dpedro (Sep 22, 2012)

This may have already been mentioned in some of the threads, but this camera does not have a touch screen. I checked canon.com, DPReview and several other sites. This is the only spec sheet I have ever seen mention touch screen. Also, for those upset with it being on the camera (even though it isn't). What was you problem with it? I have the T4i and actually find it useful. It's slow to shoot from the screen, but at times easier to quickly track and shoot someone's face. It's faster then constantly switching your focusing points, the way I did it on the T2i. I am looking to sell my T4i for the 5DM3, and the only reason I liked the 6D was for the wifi and touch screen, but that is not longer an issue, as it has no touch screen. The only other thing I like is that it focuses in low light, as I do a lot of event photography and I often find the rebels struggle in this area due to lower ISO and terrible low light focusing abilities.


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