# What's wrong with cheap ND filters?



## omar (Aug 15, 2013)

Should I go for a Hoya ND filter? These seem to cost quite expensive and you can only get one grade at a time

I've just seen a filter on eBay - does all the ranges, from ND2 to ND400 for £9.99
It's a filter!
How could I go wrong?

Thanks


Omar


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## Dylan777 (Aug 15, 2013)

I wouldn't put $20 filter on my *L*.

My 2cents: I found BW is super in term of protecting the front element - it's SOLID. It delivers great quality.


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## gferdinandsen (Aug 15, 2013)

omar said:


> Should I go for a Hoya ND filter? These seem to cost quite expensive and you can only get one grade at a time
> 
> I've just seen a filter on eBay - does all the ranges, from ND2 to ND400 for £9.99
> It's a filter!
> ...




Variable ND leave a cross pattern at higher ND levels. Trust me (I have a $300 vari ND). You are best to get a .3, .6, and .9.

I like Lee filters, they work with both my 82mm and my 77mm lenses.


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## omar (Aug 15, 2013)

how much better would a £50 nd lens be than a £5 from ebay?

thanks

i won't go for the variable nd given the advice above


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## Viggo (Aug 15, 2013)

I bought a cheap ND filter once, only 3 stops, but the sharpness went completely out the window and it left a very green cast to everything, it was useless even if you didn't care about IQ. I bought a Marumi ND8 instead, expensive but couldn't see any degradation in IQ.


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## deletemyaccount (Aug 15, 2013)

Color cast and soft images will find your way with inferior filters. I love Lee Filters as well until you wait an indefinitely ite time for their big stopper.


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## Viggo (Aug 15, 2013)

Paul W. H said:


> Viggo said:
> 
> 
> > I bought a cheap ND filter once, only 3 stops, but the sharpness went completely out the window and it left a very green cast to everything, it was useless even if you didn't care about IQ. I bought a Marumi ND8 instead, expensive but couldn't see any degradation in IQ.
> ...



I knew this was a cheapo though, it said only ND filter on it ;D It was just to test it out, if I could AF through it.


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## Paul W. H (Aug 15, 2013)

omar said:


> how much better would a £50 nd lens be than a £5 from ebay?



Be aware that there are counterfeit filters on E-Bay, I should know, I bought some in the UK.

How did I know !!, they could not even spell the manufacturers name correctly, I got a pretty quick refund from the seller after I sent an email.

If the price seems too good .................................


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## omar (Aug 15, 2013)

ok. i am convinced to invest

lee filters are square??
do i need to buy a separate holder?
will this holder work with all lens sizes?

what are the options for me to buy - looking for brand names

i have:

- hoya
- lee filters
- Marumi - no good availability in UK

anything else to consider?

*ALSO*: what do i need? n2, n4... n400??
what should i start with?

thanks


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 15, 2013)

omar said:


> I've just seen a filter on eBay - does all the ranges, from ND2 to ND400 for £9.99
> It's a filter!
> How could I go wrong?



LOL. How, indeed?


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## emag (Aug 15, 2013)

I bought this $40 77mm ND1000 filter through ebay ('bondscamera', Hong Kong), brand name on the filter is Camdiox

http://www.ebay.com/itm/350576100078

Also this $21 Cokin P size graduated and ND filter set with holder and adapters through ebay ('mambate', New Jersey)

http://www.ebay.com/itm/281097436699

Both work well for me and my uses.....YMMV. If you just want to get something decent that is actually available so you can play around with it then I would recommend both of these. Purists may cringe but they are welcome to PM me so I can give them my mailing address for that elusive Lee Big Stopper and other top shelf items they want to send me. 

I was recently in my local BestBuy and found a 77mm CPL and 77mm ND3 that included a 72-77 adapter. Reasonable price and they work on all of my larger lenses including the 300/4L and 400/5.6 and most happily the Tokina 11-16/2.8.

I would strongly recommend against a variable ND, there may be some that do not exhibit the cross effect at higher density levels but the vast majority do, particularly any of the lower priced ones.


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## bluesphoto (Aug 15, 2013)

omar said:


> ok. i am convinced to invest
> 
> lee filters are square??
> do i need to buy a separate holder?
> ...



Hi omar,

I suggest you start with reading this :http://www.redbubble.com/people/peterh111/journal/4421304-the-ultimate-guide-to-neutral-density-filters
I found it to be very useful to learn about nd filters and which to buy.

A brand I would highly recommend is B+W I have their 10 stop and 6 stop filter because I like the really long exposures(a few minutes long on a bright summers day  ).
That would be my go to for screw in filters. 
If you also want to buy gradual nd's later, I think it is best to invest in a LEE set. But the waiting period for the 10 stop is easily a few months.

I hope this was useful to you.


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## omar (Aug 15, 2013)

thanks for the great replies

what's 10 stop?
does that mean it goes from 1, 2, 3... 10 grades of grey?


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## bluesphoto (Aug 15, 2013)

omar said:


> thanks for the great replies
> 
> what's 10 stop?
> does that mean it goes from 1, 2, 3... 10 grades of grey?



Well omar 10stop is the amount of stops of light the filter blocks. A stop less light is equal to half the amount of light captured buy the sensor. For example if you have your settings at 1/200, f/8 and iso 200. Then to half the light you can either half the shutter speed too 1/100 or half the aperture size which means changing it too f5.6 or you can half the iso sensitivity too 100.
Now if you want a really long exposure you use for example a 10 stop and you can increase your shutter time by 2^10 or 1024. So the you have a time of +-5seconds.

most of the time the manufacturers use stops which can be used as 2^x or they use 1000x wich is about the same as 2^10=1024.

BUT I really think you should read the article first it will answer almost every question.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 15, 2013)

omar said:


> thanks for the great replies
> 
> what's 10 stop?
> does that mean it goes from 1, 2, 3... 10 grades of grey?



With 10stop - you can only shoot it through LiveView mode(back screen).


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## AcutancePhotography (Aug 15, 2013)

I was considering buying a set of separate ND filters. I still believe that separate filters will give you a better image. But... separate filters are more cumbersome to use than a single variable ND filter. Does that mean that separate filters are impossible to use? Of course not. As in life, there is always a trade-off.

I was taking some pictures of a water fountian the other weekend. A variable ND was so handy. I could focus and set my shutter speed and just dial in my exposure. 

If you get a good one, I like Marumi, the cross polarization issue can be mitigated. On the other hand, I have no doubts that if I purchased three Marumi ND filters, I would have a better image..... but what is good enough?

It is not an easy choice to make. Just what ever you do, don't get cheap ND filters. There are three factors that are important for a ND filter

1. That it is truly neutral. A ND filter that is not neutral will mess up your image
2. That it is has a consistant density over the whole filter. 
3. That it does not get stuck on your lens!

Cheap ND filters will sacrifice some or all of these. Been there used the wrench. 

Good luck with your decision.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 15, 2013)

AcutancePhotography said:


> If you get a good one, I like Marumi, the cross polarization issue can be mitigated.



That depends on how dark you need to set it, and how wide of an AoV you're shooting. Cheap variND filters can give you the 'Maltese cross' artifact at darker settings even at 'normal' focal lengths (40mm). The good ones don't show the artifact unless you're at a mid-to-dark density with a UWA lens (<24mm FF equivalent). If you want to use NDs above ~3 stops on a UWA lens, I think your best bet is standard ND filters. OTOH, I know many portrait photographers use variNDs to good effect, particularly when knocking down the ambient with outdoor flash.


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## angaras (Aug 15, 2013)

bluesphoto said:


> omar said:
> 
> 
> > ok. i am convinced to invest
> ...



That was an awesome article on ND filters.


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## bluesphoto (Aug 15, 2013)

angaras said:


> That was an awesome article on ND filters.



Yeah I know I learned almost everything on nd's from that site. It took me a while before I found it thou, so I thought that it would be useful here.


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## bluesphoto (Aug 15, 2013)

AcutancePhotography said:


> 1. That it is truly neutral. A ND filter that is not neutral will mess up your image



Well that is not exactly true. Every Nd filters has some kind of colour cast, some allot others a bit but of course it isn't that obvious if you only look at one exposure but if you look at two with and without you will notice it. The first one that is truly neutral would put every other filter company out of business.
But in the end you will want one with the least colour cast as possible or with the one that you think looks good(warm or cold colours).


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## Andy_Hodapp (Aug 16, 2013)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/sets/72157634078219248/

This is what I have gotten from my Neewer ND fader on my 50mm 1.8 II, I'm pretty impressed with it


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## leGreve (Aug 16, 2013)

What you pay for in expensive brand variable NDs and what you DONT get in cheap ones:

- Control over vignetting
- Little or no color cast
- Sharp images
- No cross hatch issues (since variable NDs are merely two pol filters twister against eachother)

Those are all big issues for me, and definitely not something I would go on compromise with because of money...........

The best budget filters seem to be Heliopan and Genus. And then we have Tiffen and BW who continue to provide good stuff.
Don't buy expensive lenses and then degrade them with shit 3rd party ebay items. That's just silly...


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## Marsu42 (Aug 16, 2013)

camerabug said:


> Color cast and soft images will find your way with inferior filters.



With strong nd filters you get a color cast anyway due to infrared leaks, b&w or heliopan, it doesn't matter - if you want to circumvent this you have to add an ir blocker (not possible to stack these for <35mm) or buy a more expensive combined hot mirror ir - nd filter.


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## AcutancePhotography (Aug 16, 2013)

bluesphoto said:


> Every Nd filters has some kind of colour cast, some allot others a bit...



Good point. What you want is one with the leastest colour cast.


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## Waterloo (Aug 16, 2013)

This was just posted on the Planet 5D blog: http://blog.planet5d.com/2013/08/formatt-hitech-release-the-prostop-irnd-long-exposure-filter-kit-joel-tjintjelaar-signature-series/

It might be of interest.


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