# Rebel T3i/600D, T3/1100D? [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 2, 2011)

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<p><strong>Rebel 600D</strong></p>
<p>The obvious next Rebel is starting to pick up steam. Will we see it for CP+ in February? I’ve been told countless times by good people there will be NO SLRs introduced for CES on January 6.</p>
<p>The following are listed as the changes to the 550D. It looks like a very incremental upgrade.</p>
<p><strong>600D</strong></p>
<p><strong> </strong></p>
<p><strong> </strong></p>
<ul>
<li style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-weight: normal;">Articulating screen like the 60D</span></li>
<li style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-weight: normal;">18mp</span></li>
<li style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-weight: normal;">9 Point AF</span></li>
<li style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-weight: normal;">Increased shutter range in Auto ISO Mode</span></li>
<li style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-weight: normal;">Video Snapshot Mode</span></li>
<li style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-weight: normal;">ISO 100-12800</span></li>
<li style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-weight: normal;">DIGIC IV </span></li>
<li style="font-weight: bold;"><span style="font-weight: normal;">New software features for still and video</span></li>
</ul>
<p><strong> </strong></p>
<p><strong> </strong></p>
<p><strong> </strong></p>
<p>I canÃ‚Â definitelyÃ‚Â see the 600D being a minor advancement.</p>
<p><strong>1100D</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>12mp</li>
<li>HD Video (Probably less feature filled than the 600D)</li>
<li>9 Point AF</li>
<li>ISO 100-6400</li>
</ul>
<p>A new kit lens and flash were also mentioned.</p>
<p>I’ve previously been told there’d be no direct replacement of the 1000D, this contradicts that and I think is a bit more believable.</p>
<p><strong>Source Email & [<a href="http://optyczne.pl/3583-nowo%C5%9B%C4%87-O_tym_si%C4%99_m%C3%B3wi__czyli_plotki_i_ploteczki_z_ostatniego_tygodnia.html">OPT Poland</a>]</strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


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## traveller (Jan 2, 2011)

Personally, I can't see the point in such a release as it wouldn't add the one feature that the Nikon D5000 replacement definitely will have, and the 3100 and Sony SLTs already have: autofocus in video mode. I'm not interested in this myself (nor the 600D) and I guess it won't matter to a lot of other people, but it just looks bad in marketing terms if your main competitors have this feature on their video mode and you do not (even if Nikon's implementation is far from perfect). This is an important market segment for Canon as it's where the money is made and where future upgraders are recruited. 

I'm guessing that better contrrast detect AF, and by extension AF in video mode, are beyond the capabilities of Digic 4. I'm sure Canon will need Digic 5 for the 1Ds Mk III replacement, so it is either not ready yet or Canon don't want to debut it in a Rebel. Neither situation is good IMHO.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 2, 2011)

Canon Rumors said:


> The following are listed as the changes to the 550D. It looks like a very incremental upgrade.
> 
> 9 Point AF



The 550D has 9 Point AF. How is this a change? Unless it means that all 9 AF points will be cross-type like the xxD bodies - in the recent Rebels only the center point is cross-type.


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## MarkB (Jan 2, 2011)

I dont know. Adding the articulating screen would be nice, but then they would seem to be driving a lot of potential 60D buyers to a lower price point item. The screen is one of two main reasons I choose the 60D over the 550D. 

I guess if they are facing stiff enough competition from Nikon and Sony in that 550D/Ti2i range this might help drive sales volumes higher?


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## unruled (Jan 3, 2011)

I feel its very early for the 550d to get updated...
the 1000d has been out for a while though, i could see it getting some features bumped up.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 3, 2011)

unruled said:


> I feel its very early for the 550d to get updated...



XSi (450D), released Jan 2008
T1i (500D), released Mar 2009
T2i (550D), released Feb 2010

So, a new xxxD came out in the first quarter of each of the past three years. It certainly makes sense that we'll see a 600D by March...


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## Justin (Jan 3, 2011)

Yup, we're do. Not a rumor if you ask me, but more a prediction based on a solid track record (imho). 

Now the better question is if there is anything to distinguish this update with the last update. That is a much harder question. Given the entry-level nature of these dslrs there will always be someone who wants their entry to be the latest and greatest and will buy. 

Being that I am in the market for a smaller camera, I'd have to see something compelling to help it compete with Panasonic. I won't hold my breath. 



neuroanatomist said:


> unruled said:
> 
> 
> > I feel its very early for the 550d to get updated...
> ...


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## JLN (Jan 3, 2011)

It's not outside the realms of possibility, but they're really blurring the difference between the 600d and 60d if these specs were real.


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## spam (Jan 3, 2011)

traveller said:


> I'm guessing that better contrrast detect AF, and by extension AF in video mode, are beyond the capabilities of Digic 4. I'm sure Canon will need Digic 5 for the 1Ds Mk III replacement, so it is either not ready yet or Canon don't want to debut it in a Rebel. Neither situation is good IMHO.



Canon do really fast CD AF on several P&S with Digic IV, AF with a small sensor don't need to be as accurate, but I don't believe Digic IV is the problem with the AF speed. What you need to get better CD AF is higher refresh rates from the sensor, and maybe the main cause for concern for Canon - better control of the lens AF.

USM motors are according to some sources not particulary suited for CD AF algorithms (I've no idea why), but this could be a problem for Canon. 

As for new models, a 600D with an articulated screen would make the 60D harder to sell, but would give Canon one unique feature in this segment while they figure out how to make CD AF usable. A 1000D upgrade would make even more sense as just decreasing prices on 450D and 500D (again) wouldn't work too well against the D3100 which feature full HD with AF and a better sensor. A 1100D couold also be the "promised" small dSLR which Canon hope can compete with mirrorless models.


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## traveller (Jan 3, 2011)

spam said:


> Canon do really fast CD AF on several P&S with Digic IV, AF with a small sensor don't need to be as accurate, but I don't believe Digic IV is the problem with the AF speed. What you need to get better CD AF is higher refresh rates from the sensor, and maybe the main cause for concern for Canon - better control of the lens AF.
> 
> USM motors are according to some sources not particulary suited for CD AF algorithms (I've no idea why), but this could be a problem for Canon.
> 
> As for new models, a 600D with an articulated screen would make the 60D harder to sell, but would give Canon one unique feature in this segment while they figure out how to make CD AF usable. A 1000D upgrade would make even more sense as just decreasing prices on 450D and 500D (again) wouldn't work too well against the D3100 which feature full HD with AF and a better sensor. A 1100D couold also be the "promised" small dSLR which Canon hope can compete with mirrorless models.



Like you say, DoF must be a big contributing factor to the overall slowness of DSLR CDAF, as I suspect is the size of the lens elements that need to be moved compared to P&S cameras. I don't profess to understand the electronic engineering behind digital signal processing; is the rate at which data can be read off the sensor mainly limited by the processing power of the camera, is it governed by the architecture of the sensor itself, or is it a combination of the two? Certainly, Panasonic seem to have had this problem cracked for a while on their G-series cameras. If Canon is limited by the architecture of the 18MP APS-C sensor, then it was a bit short sighted of them not to consider video when they were designing it! 

An interesting point about USM motors, I hadn't seen this before. It goes against my expectations as USM motors are known not only for their speed, but also for their precision. Does this also apply to micro-USM? (N.B. the Powershot SX1 IS had a USM motor.)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultrasonic_motor (O.K. I know it's only Wikipedia!)

An articulated screen would remove one marketing advantage of the 60D over the 600D, but there are still plenty of reasons to buy a 60D and you can be pretty sure that a Nikon D5000 replacement will feature one. 

I like you idea that the 1000D replacement might feature the smaller form factor that Canon have previously suggested as a counter to mirrorless. Even though I don't think that simply shrinking a DSLR will be enough to counter mirroless' popularity, it would still be an interesting development.


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## Stuart (Jan 3, 2011)

Is this part of a wider product shift strategy?
With the 7D previously being said to be the new 60D.
Is the 1100D the new 600D ?


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## nowinaminute (Jan 3, 2011)

The following are listed as the changes to the 550D. 


* 18mp
* 9 Point AF

How did this even get on the site? Is there ANYONE who doesn't know the 550D has these features already? Not only is it a bad rumour but it's like the worst possible information you could have found in the entire world. Out of all the rumours and predictions this makes it to the front page? I'm sorry if I sound like a troll but at least publish the rumours from people who seem like they have a vague clue what they are talking about!


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## unruled (Jan 3, 2011)

Stuart said:


> Is this part of a wider product shift strategy?
> With the 7D previously being said to be the new 60D.
> Is the 1100D the new 600D ?



to me it seems a little like that. Due to the technological advance, and pressure from competition, over the last 5 years the entry level (350/450/500/etc) have gained so many features that it has essentially jumped up to a new level. As a previous 350d owner, I feel like the 1000d is the new 350d.

and yep, I currently have a 40d and I do feel the 7D is a more direct follow up to it as opposed ot the 60d. This is purely my own view though.


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## spam (Jan 3, 2011)

traveller said:


> An interesting point about USM motors, I hadn't seen this before. It goes against my expectations as USM motors are known not only for their speed, but also for their precision. Does this also apply to micro-USM? (N.B. the Powershot SX1 IS had a USM motor.)



I don't have a source for the USM-comment, so it might not be correct, but it could be one reason why Canon seem to lag in CD AF speed.

You need a high framerate from the sensor to get fast CD AF as CD AF analyze the video signal to focus the lens. PD AF use sensors that can determine how much out of focus the subject is and send an instruction to the lens how much closer or further away to focus. 

CD AF can't to that, in stead the algorithm take one reading from the video stream, move focus a bit and check again. If focus is better (higher contrast) on the second reading then fine, it moved focus in the right direction and continue to do so until contrast decreases, then focus in the opposite direction. It will continue with this with steadily smaller focus shitfts until it can't get it better.

So, obviously doubling the frame rate mean it can do twice as many comparisions per seconds and get half the focus times - in theory. In practice focus speed will depend on two other factors (at least). The first possible bottleneck is the image processor which have to be able to keep up with the frame rate the sensor can deliver. That shouldn't be much of an issue. The second and possibly much more difficult obstacle is the lens which is designed for PD AF and not for small extremely fast repeated focus shifts. Which mean that the system is limited by how many times per second focus shifts can be done, and maybe how small shifts that are possible - I don't know enough detail about this to say where the real bottlenecks in the lens are. Maybe the focus motor, maybe mechanical tolerances contribute, and maybe the electronic protocol between body and lens is a limit.

Anyway, Oly/Panasonc added two new contacts when they moved from FT to mFT to improve AF performance and maybe Canon need to do the same, maybe not. I just hope they solve the problems so I can use my current lenses when they come out with a mirrorless system. 

My comments about at 1000D successor being a new small camera didn't imply a higher crop factor at all. I can't see any reason why Canon shouldn't be able to make a 1.6 crop dSLR significantly smaller than 1000D.

All the last Canon superzooms SX1 IS/SX10 IS/SX20 IS/SX 30 IS (and I believe, alse eralier models) use an Ultrasonic motor, but not for focus. It's used to provide silent motorized zoom.


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## traveller (Jan 3, 2011)

spam said:


> My comments about at 1000D successor being a new small camera didn't imply a higher crop factor at all. I can't see any reason why Canon shouldn't be able to make a 1.6 crop dSLR significantly smaller than 1000D.



I wrote _form_ factor, not _crop_ factor and I was refering to the rumour about Canon producing a smaller APS-C DSLR (can't find the link at the moment -do you remember the one that had a picture of the EOS IX APS film SLR?). With hindsight, I should have made this clearer! 

I have read that the Panasonic doubled the refresh rate of the GH2's sensor

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/reviews/cameras/panasonic_gh2_first_look.shtml

I've also read somewhere (but I can't remember where -typical!) that a slower refresh rate is one of the reasons that the new Nikons' CDAF is so much slower than the G-series. If so, then it was a poor strategy by Canon to fail to address this whilst pushing HD video in their DSLRs' marketing, as it is a feature that most amateurs would find very useful for video (it would also make the 60D's articulating screen far more useful for stills photography). 

I'm not quite sure what the extra two connections on the lens mount do for micro-4/3rds lenses. If they truely help with CDAF then maybe Canon should have already started introducing such a system on new DSLRs and lenses. 

I didn't know that the SX series still used a micro-motor for AF.


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## Jan (Jan 3, 2011)

The 600D specs sound reasonable to me... I for one expected Canon to go back to a 1,5yr cycle for the xxxD series. But IF a 600D is released this spring, it will probably be only a very slightly upgraded 550D as reported in this rumor.

The thing I'm not believing is the 12MP sensor of the 1100D although I would appreciate it. However, I don't believe in a 1100D at all .

But we'll see... "Time will tell. Sooner or later, time will tell."


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## Catastrophile (Jan 3, 2011)

spam said:


> As for new models, a 600D with an articulated screen would make the 60D harder to sell, but would give Canon one unique feature in this segment ...



not really unique (Panasonic G2).


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## Neuron (Jan 4, 2011)

I don't know, I'm iffy about this. There's already a lot of product identity confusion, and products being too similar at too close a price point, and these updates would make things worse (specifically the 600D, I'm fine with the 1100D).

The 60D hasn't been selling very well as it is, and adding an articulating screen to the 550D would make it even worse. This is a guess, but I'd wage that more people choose the 60D rather than 550D over the articulating screen than say...wireless flash control.


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## bvukich (Jan 4, 2011)

Catastrophile said:


> spam said:
> 
> 
> > As for new models, a 600D with an articulated screen would make the 60D harder to sell, but would give Canon one unique feature in this segment ...
> ...



Different market segment, Lumix G2 is not an SLR.


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## Stuart (Jan 4, 2011)

Where would the new sensor come from? Canon would not make one just for this 1100 camera.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 4, 2011)

Neuron said:


> There's already a lot of product identity confusion, and products being too similar at too close a price point...



Really? Check out the PowerShot lineup some time. One year ago this month (Jan 2010), they launched 4 PowerShot models and they currently range in price from $80-110 at B&H. Just one month later (Feb 2010), they launched 4 _more_ PowerShot models. 

Like your nickname, by the way...


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## Jan (Jan 4, 2011)

Stuart said:


> Where would the new sensor come from? Canon would not make one just for this 1100 camera.


As far as I now they did so for the 1000D.


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## Neuron (Jan 4, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> Really? Check out the PowerShot lineup some time. One year ago this month (Jan 2010), they launched 4 PowerShot models and they currently range in price from $80-110 at B&H. Just one month later (Feb 2010), they launched 4 _more_ PowerShot models. Like your nickname, by the way...



Two wrongs don't make a right! Every time I pass by the P&S section in Futureshop or something I get scared off. So many similar products with the most minute of differences, we don't need that in the DSLR world. 

Aha, I like yours too! I'm wrapping up my neuroscience/business degree, how about yourself?


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 4, 2011)

Neuron said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Two wrongs don't make a right! Every time I pass by the P&S section in Futureshop or something I get scared off.
> ...


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## Osiris30 (Jan 11, 2011)

Stuart said:


> Where would the new sensor come from? Canon would not make one just for this 1100 camera.



How about a revised 450D sensor. Take the basic layout and tweak the sensel design with a few modern goodies. The 450D is 12mp and a slight tweak on it's sensor in a tiny (relatively) form factor may make for a very compelling product especially if the pricing was right. Perfect for the casual photo with a lightweight prime on it.. especially a nifty fifty version of a 30/35mm prime (please dear lord, just do this Canon, PLEASE).


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## MK5GTI (Jan 12, 2011)

Catastrophile said:


> spam said:
> 
> 
> > As for new models, a 600D with an articulated screen would make the 60D harder to sell, but would give Canon one unique feature in this segment ...
> ...



didn't the old Nikon D5000 had that long time ago?

G2 is in another segment, and try shooting with that thing above ISO800 :-[
the A55 has one, so Canon is just following, they need one with those LCD screen in that segment/size/price point.


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