# High Megapixel Camera to Come in Two Variants? [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 9, 2014)

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<p>An unknown person has sent us a bunch of cryptic information about Canon’s roadmap over the next 6-9 months. I have been unable to confirm any of it, but hopefully this post will help shed some light on things.</p>
<p>We’re told that Canon will introduce a high megapixel camera in Q1 of 2015 and it will be released in two variants. What those two variants are wasn’t mentioned. I do not see Canon doing what Nikon did with the D800 and D800E, I’m thinking that the second variant could possibly be an astronomy version, like the 60Da and 20Da. The other possibility could be an EOS and Cinema EOS version of the camera, and everyone can drool at the possibility of an affordable 4K DSLR from Canon.</p>
<p>It was also stressed that the cameras being talked about wouldn’t be in the $8000-$9000 range like has been discussed recently, and likely cost half of that.</p>
<p>More to come</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
<p> </p>
```


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## Marsu42 (Oct 9, 2014)

Canon Rumors said:


> An unknown person has sent us a bunch of cryptic information about Canon’s roadmap over the next 6-9 months. I have been unable to confirm any of it



Yay, that's how we like our rumors :->



Canon Rumors said:


> The other possibility could be an EOS and Cinema EOS version of the camera



That would probably be it - change a bit of the firmware, add some more cooling and add a couple of €1000 to the price tag of the "base" version just like they did it with the 1dx/1dc.



Canon Rumors said:


> It was also stressed that the cameras being talked about wouldn’t be in the $8000-$9000 range like has been discussed recently, and likely cost half of that.



"Only" $4000 for Canon's latest and greatest? Honestly, I don't see them doing that as there are a lot of people desperate for a high-mp EOS, so at least the early adopter's price should be a lot higher.


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## Besisika (Oct 9, 2014)

Canon Rumors said:


> The other possibility could be an EOS and *Cinema EOS* version of the camera, and everyone can drool at the possibility of an *affordable 4K DSLR* from Canon.</p>
> <p>It was also stressed that the cameras being talked about wouldn’t be in the $8000-$9000 range like has been discussed recently, and likely *cost half of that*.</p>
> <p>More to come</p>
> <p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
> ...


That would be nice!


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## justawriter (Oct 9, 2014)

It seems that by Easter the MP wars will be blossoming ... 
http://petapixel.com/2014/10/09/return-megapixel-wars-sony-announce-46mp-full-frame-camera-q1-2015/#more-147671


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 9, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> "Only" $4000 for Canon's latest and greatest? Honestly, I don't see them doing that as there are a lot of people desperate for a high-mp EOS, so at least the early adopter's price should be a lot higher.



Unless it has built-in 4k recording (of top quality and 10bits) and crazy fps for the high MP count, how can they expect to get an early adopter price way above 4k for it?? People can get an A&R+adapter used for half that. Or they could buy a D810 and some lenses. So who would go 8k for some 5-6fps 40MP camera with regular old video when you can it for so much less elsewhere? That would be nuts. And if it lacks the DR, they would be lucky to find buyers at 4k to be honest, that is still more and it would deliver less in terms of IQ.


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## Marsu42 (Oct 9, 2014)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> That would be nuts.



Imho this isn't the point, people buying all kinds of premium products can be called nuts.

But with the 5d3 release and the multiple delays for lenses and cameras, many Canon users have proven to be rather resistant against "jumping ship". Probably simply because they like their long-term brand, Canon service, Canon usability, Canon whatever and are as conservative as Canon themselves. If you have €25k lenses, another $1000 more or less for a camera that actually makes use of their potential resolution is a minor expense w/o running into compatibility issues with adapters.


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## tiger82 (Oct 9, 2014)

The variants are: really expensive and really, really expensive?


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## Tugela (Oct 10, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
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> 
> > That would be nuts.
> ...



That is not really the point. Existing users may be committed to a particular brand, but new users are not. By not competing effectively in the market Canon might think that their current user base will keep on buying their stuff, and that may be correct, but new users are going to buy the best tech available now, which is not Canon. And those users are going to show life long loyalty to whatever choices they make now as well. So, the damage done to Canon's market share might not show up tomorrow, but in a decade or so from now the effects of their short-sightedness is going to manifest itself.


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## iceman (Oct 10, 2014)

Tugela said:


> That is not really the point. Existing users may be committed to a particular brand, but new users are not. By not competing effectively in the market Canon might think that their current user base will keep on buying their stuff, and that may be correct, but new users are going to buy the best tech available now, which is not Canon. And those users are going to show life long loyalty to whatever choices they make now as well. So, the damage done to Canon's market share might not show up tomorrow, but in a decade or so from now the effects of their short-sightedness is going to manifest itself.



New users won't likely be getting the high end gear, most if not all will get an APS-C sensor in that regard Canon has more options and an advantage in the market. The T3i almost always the #1 seller in Amazon? How many "new" users do you think will get the best tech right off the bat?


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## weixing (Oct 10, 2014)

jrista said:


> Marsu42 said:
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> > Canon Rumors said:
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Hi,
Where is the high MP FF QSI camera you mention in the link?? 

Have a nice day.


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## skoobey (Oct 10, 2014)

I upgraded to 5dII, but they lost me with the 5dIII. I hoped it was going to be at least 30mpix. So, I skipped it, and concentrated on my skills. I don't care about the brand anymore.

So, unless this offers not only the resolution, but the IQ to boost, I'm skipping again.

1.FAST IMAGE TRANSFER, USB3 and thunderbolt


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## The Flasher (Oct 10, 2014)

This seems to be the growing canon user sentiment; switching to Nikon is too costly, the Sony a7R looking more and more like a viable option. My a7r demo unit arrives this week, will be putting it through its paces shooting mostly architecture, studio ads. For editorial work and other high iso projects, my 6D is a capable tool. 

J


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## Maximilian (Oct 10, 2014)

jrista said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...


If that rumored price is true, it seems that Canon has recognized that they cannot answer a D8x0 with a premium 1Dwhatever Camera, but they have to get on "budget" (as far as you can call $4k budget).

Maybe that's the differentiation between those two high-MP bodys:
one at $4k weaker housing and less features, medium class AF and low FPS for the enthusiasts
and one at $8k in a 1D housing with top notch features and AF and medum FPS for the pros, that need such a workhorse.
Both using the same sensor, one single Digic the other dual Digic ans so on. 
And with enough differentiation they wouldn't cannibalize each other.

We'll see...


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## Pitbullo (Oct 10, 2014)

My bet is that they introduce a dSLR and a mirrorless variant of the same high res camera. Also with a brand new mount for the mirrorless and a lens or two. ;D


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## Tugela (Oct 10, 2014)

iceman said:


> Tugela said:
> 
> 
> > That is not really the point. Existing users may be committed to a particular brand, but new users are not. By not competing effectively in the market Canon might think that their current user base will keep on buying their stuff, and that may be correct, but new users are going to buy the best tech available now, which is not Canon. And those users are going to show life long loyalty to whatever choices they make now as well. So, the damage done to Canon's market share might not show up tomorrow, but in a decade or so from now the effects of their short-sightedness is going to manifest itself.
> ...



And when they get more serious and decide to upgrade? Do you think they are going to choose Canon's yesterday technology or Panasonic/Sony/Samsung's tomorrow technology? People getting into the market, or moving up in their ambitions are not going to be slaves to the gear they already own, they are going to get the most advanced gear they can afford, and Canon doesn't do that any more.

I happen to have a T3i, and have for quite some time. I want a better camera, but I want it to be state of the art if I am going to pay that sort of money. I have a few lenses, but not so many or so expensive that I couldn't switch to a different company. I was hoping that the 7D2 would be that camera, but now that it has arrived it is painfully clear that it is inadequate for my needs.

I also have a G30 for video, and that is a reasonable camera but it suffers from relatively low image quality relative to other camcorders of that level, particularly compared to 2014 4K models. A few months back I bought a Sony RX100M3 for a vacation I went on, and that was an eye opening camera. Obviously it has limitations in IQ due to its size, but the quality of the video it produces is better than the G30 and streets ahead of the T3i. If it wasn't for the limitations of the zoom range I would replace the G30 with it in a heartbeat. If Sony can do this and produce a combination of high quality stills and excellent video that compete with or beat dedicated Canon cameras, and do that in a tiny package (the RX100M3 is a marvel of technology) then why the hell can't Canon??? For the last two-three years now I have been waiting and waiting and waiting for them to get off their butts and deliver, but as yet they have done nothing as far as I can tell other than to repackage old cameras in newer bodies with a few minor tweaks


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## tomscott (Oct 10, 2014)

I think the 7D MKII has 5DMKIII syndrome. 

On paper it doesn't look brilliant and re-using current tech, but it seems from everything I've seen and the High ISO samples that this camera is an exceptional performer. It blows away the 7D, 70D and the D7100. It looks like it will be the APC king for the time being.

I think the thing is that the current cameras are very capable atm and if you know what your doing you get fantastic results. I understand people will say well you shouldn't have to and I agree with that to some point.

I feel a lot of people have the grass is greener syndrome and there is new tech therefore that makes your current tech invalid. Its just not the case.

Something is coming and it will be kick ass. My current camera turn around is 3-4 years and I usually adopt about a year in to make sure that problems have been ironed out. Therefore for me I don't feel worried.

I dont understand why all these DR complaints are all coming out now. The D800 was released before the 5DMKIII and the D810 doesn't bring anything worlds apart. That is their answer 21/2 years later?

The 5DMKIII hasn't hit 3 years yet, and anyone complaining now… the situation hasn't changed. So why is it now that DR is suddenly such a big deal, there was loads of troll threads early on then people realised how good the 5DMKIII is and it all calmed down infact you and people going the opposite way moving to the 5D from the D800.

So just chill, time will tell. The only reason it feels so long is because your glued to the computer reading these complaints from niche users.


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## rfdesigner (Oct 10, 2014)

Maximilian said:


> jrista said:
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> > Marsu42 said:
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You're probably right.

I'm just thinking that a 50Mpix 5DIV with all the bells and whistles off the 5DIII ought be of interest and should command a premium to the 5DIII and stop the leak to Sony.

I can't see the need for a 50Mpix in a 1D. 50Mpix is needed mainly for landscape, and who wants to lug a 1D series up a mountain or whatever?

Maybe what we're looking at is a 3D?.. essentially a derivative of the 6D with 50MPix and 14EV+ DR even if sensitivity is compromised... a dedicated landscape body.

One thought... is it theoretically possible to read a CMOS sensor twice? (same exposure, just read at high and low ISO).. CCD you can't but I don't see why you can't do it with CMOS.. reading the current sensor tech twice could give you much more than 14 EV DR, but would be slower.. which for landscape isn't an issue.

Just wondering if that route is open to Canon without having to go foveon just yet.

Personally I just want Canon to release a cracking upgrade to the 5DIII so that suddenly 5DIIIs become cheap as chips and I can pick one up for tuppence.


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## Coldhands (Oct 10, 2014)

Maximilian said:


> If that rumored price is true, it seems that Canon has recognized that they cannot answer a D8x0 with a premium 1Dwhatever Camera, but they have to get on "budget" (as far as you can call $4k budget).
> 
> Maybe that's the differentiation between those two high-MP bodys:
> one at $4k weaker housing and less features, medium class AF and low FPS for the enthusiasts
> ...



That sounds like the most likely scenario to me, as it's exactly how the 1Ds MkIII and 5D MkII were marketed. Same high res (at the time) sensor, but the 1Ds had the "pro" style body, better AF, faster burst, etc while the 5D had more modest specs and cost far less.


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## hendrik-sg (Oct 10, 2014)

Tugela said:


> Marsu42 said:
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> > LetTheRightLensIn said:
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My expierience is the oposite: i know 2 new Canon users, who bought a xxx Line with kit lens who told me, that Nikon would no be on a good Level to date, and a Canon cam would be better. New users often are uninformed and buy what their friend have or wat they see most frequent. 

Therfore the market leader is in a Position which is quite comfortable and Canon uses this and is for sure the less innovative photo brand at the Moment, but the most profitable (wich means nothing else than that we pay to much)

To Friends who asked me for advice (for Safari/wildlife) with around 1000E Budget bought 24MP Nikon 5100 with 18-55 & 55-300 tele instead of of Canon xxx with 18MP and 18-55 & 55-250 tele, which gives much better Resolution on distant subjects

For them ist not a question if there is a 17mm TS, or a 8-15 fisheye zoom and which 600mm 4.0 is the better one

Means, this politics (of non inovation) is dangerous and the user opinion can Switch, like about Nokia, Long time they were told to have the most user friendly mobiles) even if there Situation is different in detail


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## lintoni (Oct 10, 2014)

rfdesigner said:


> You're probably right.
> 
> I'm just thinking that a 50Mpix 5DIV with all the bells and whistles off the 5DIII ought be of interest and should command a premium to the 5DIII and stop the leak to Sony.
> 
> ...


Not quite what you're proposing, but Magic Lantern's Dual ISO samples 1/2 the sensor at one ISO and 1/2 the sensor at another ISO - this is done concurrently, so there are no motion artefacts.

http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=7139.0


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## mskrystalmeth (Oct 10, 2014)

IT would have to be supplied by Sony. Canon cannot produce a quality Sensor. But Nikon will produce that high end D4x with 50mp, with the Sony Sensor, first! Canon....your "impossible"


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 10, 2014)

mskrystalmeth said:


> IT would have to be supplied by Sony. Canon cannot produce a quality Sensor. But Nikon will produce that high end D4x with 50mp, with the Sony Sensor, first! Canon....your "impossible"



You sound quite confident about that...much like your six posts shouting that the 'see impossible' ad campaign was a 3D printer, which was a total FAIL for your credibility.


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## Diko (Oct 10, 2014)

I say they separate again the *1D* series or they might actually separate the *5D* series perhaps.

* - 1 for sport (regular updated *CMOS BSI* tech)
* - 1 for studio (new *FOVEON* slower but better than Sigma sensor)

Additionally the speculation of *mirrorless* and *DSLR* also seems quite reasonable along with the *astro* version.

_I love colour, don't I?_ ;D


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## Mr.Magic (Oct 10, 2014)

As Canon wouldn't do the D800-D800E split, I'm not reading this as a high megapixel camera in 2 variants, but as a high mexapixel SENSOR coming in 2 variants:
- in DSLR
- in Mirrorless

Let's hope....


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## Jon_D (Oct 10, 2014)

If Canon and Sony are both releasing ~50MP sensors in 2015 it will be interesting to see if Canon can catch up in DR and shadow noise too.


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## rfdesigner (Oct 10, 2014)

Diko said:


> I say they separate again the *1D* series or they might actually separate the *5D* series perhaps.
> 
> * - 1 for sport (regular updated *CMOS BSI* tech)
> * - 1 for studio (new *FOVEON* slower but better than Sigma sensor)
> ...



If they do another astro one then I do hope they allow for it to be cooled properly, plus route a sensor temperature feedback out of it so it can be setpoint cooled.. makes all the difference in the world. Plus they should have a 60fps full-res/part-frame video mode (even just 640x480 would be enough, but more is always better).. ability to track a bright spot wandering over the sensor would be fantastic. (planetary mode).


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## Stu_bert (Oct 10, 2014)

dilbert said:


> jrista said:
> 
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> > dilbert said:
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yes but if Jrista wants a zoom UWA wider than 16mm and allows him to take shots of what he likes, in a way that he likes, isn't that ok? I don't believe he's saying *all* his landscapes would be this way, just he would like that option....


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## privatebydesign (Oct 10, 2014)

Stu_bert said:


> dilbert said:
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> > jrista said:
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Then he needs to come to terms with the unavoidable fact that life is a series of compromises, *and always will be*. He can use a Canon with native Canon lenses, he can use a Canon with third party lenses, he can use Canon lenses on third party bodies, he can use third party lenses on third party bodies, it isn't like he is stuck for choice, he just wants what isn't currently available and rather than acknowledge that and take the best option for him, he wants to make all our lives a misery.

But make no mistake, when he gets his D810 and 14-24 and Canon come out with a 50mp something and an 11-24 he will be on the Nikon forums making just as much noise, or Canon come out with the body he says he wants but not the lens, or the lens but not the body, he/we will never be offered the "best" of everything in a single package from a single manufacturer, that is just life, and constantly screaming that it isn't fair isn't achieving anything constructive. 

Choose what is best for you and your image making from the options available, and we have more options now than ever before, don't see limitations in gear, there effectively aren't any, the only limitation is the one you set up yourself as a way of making excuses for your own short comings.


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## Stu_bert (Oct 10, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> Stu_bert said:
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> > dilbert said:
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LOL, does he *make* you read this forum? Does he force you to respond to every comment he makes? And if he is making so many people's live a misery then I worry for those people. This site exists based on us coming here, griping, guessing, waxing lyrical, discussing, sharing, informing. I think you need to read your first sentence - this forum is indeed a compromise and if the balance is not to your liking, seek alternative forums or scroll past the postings you don't like..... But please let's avoid the personal stuff...


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## privatebydesign (Oct 10, 2014)

jrista said:


> You guys completely misinterpret and misrepresent everything I've said about this subject. You lump me in with your run of the mill complainer who jumps from site to site bitching about anything and everything Canon. I've been very consistent in my complaint...and it's just one complaint: Canon's sensor IQ, particularly the quality of their read noise, but their overall IQ that, IMO, suffers because of poor DR which stems from extremely old (ancient, in the tech world) technology. Stop misrepresenting me and my words to the rest of the community.



After the tens of thousands of words you have written on your position I doubt a blind person could misinterpret you. And whilst you might think you have been 100% consistent along the way you have made some absolutely ridiculous claims and failed to identify an Exmor from a Canon image.

As for misrepresentation, how about you calling me "antiDR" when I have never, ever, been against more DR?

You are a run of the mill complainer, you want something that isn't available in Canon's range, and you want them to make it for you. That is no different than people complaining about the 14-24, the lack of high MP, the price of many higher end comparative lenses, lack of a serious mirrorless (even when they haven't even tried an EOS-m) etc etc. You have hijacked innumerable threads (including this one), lambasted people for asking for relatively simple clarification or actual images to back up your over inflated opinions and ridiculed anybody that dares to offer any kind of counterpoint.

As Neuro said to you the other day, that is life. Buy the best equipment you can afford to do the job you want, if that involves such precise capabilities as to include more than one manufacturer then so be it, most serious photographers with diverse interests have shot multiple systems since, for ever!


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## privatebydesign (Oct 10, 2014)

Stu_bert said:


> LOL, does he *make* you read this forum? Does he force you to respond to every comment he makes? And if he is making so many people's live a misery then I worry for those people. This site exists based on us coming here, griping, guessing, waxing lyrical, discussing, sharing, informing. I think you need to read your first sentence - this forum is indeed a compromise and if the balance is not to your liking, seek alternative forums or scroll past the postings you don't like..... But please let's avoid the personal stuff...



No.

No, and I don't.

Sure, take the forum for what it is, or make it what it is. Personally I believe the tone has been lowered immeasurably by the constant hijacking, lengthy repetitive posts with bad manners, bad diction, and lots of shouting from the DRoners.

I am not anti jrista nor, at it's core, his point, despite his loathsome cries of persecution I have tried to engage with him seriously in several threads specifically about DR. I am anti the over the top way he broadcasts his opinion, I am anti the shouting and inflammatory way he goes about sharing that opinion, I am against his inconsistency, his rewriting history, his constant hijacking, and his overwhelmingly self righteous belief that anybody that doesn't agree with him is either uneducated, delusional or deluded. I have huge differences of opinion with him on what he considers acceptable IQ, which is funny because it appears my standards are actually higher than his. He strikes me as a really smart guy who over thinks a lot of stuff and gets very committed to a solution he thinks is right whilst being resistant to adjustments to that solution when it is shown to not be quite right or that clearly make it better, easier, faster or more useful.

I have many faults too, I respect jristas opinion at its core, I will happily take more DR when it gets here, and I get as over enthusiastic about rebuttals as he does about his opinion on occasions.

I wish the mods, who do a hell of a good job, would ease back on my culling and warnings a little and increase those on jrista to contain the DR "issue" within a small series of threads truthfully devoted to it, not any and every thread that offers the slightest tangential attachment to it.


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## Stu_bert (Oct 10, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> Stu_bert said:
> 
> 
> > LOL, does he *make* you read this forum? Does he force you to respond to every comment he makes? And if he is making so many people's live a misery then I worry for those people. This site exists based on us coming here, griping, guessing, waxing lyrical, discussing, sharing, informing. I think you need to read your first sentence - this forum is indeed a compromise and if the balance is not to your liking, seek alternative forums or scroll past the postings you don't like..... But please let's avoid the personal stuff...
> ...



I have to admit I drop in and out of this site, especially the forums. There is a whole bunch of good info I have gained from the people here, so I still come back.

But my personal advice, re individuals who just get to you is just "walk away" - whether that is permanent, or just from that thread. Maybe that reflects more on me than you both, I don't know. I enjoy people passionately discussing topics, even if they disagree in the right way. When it stops being nice, then I just get bored....

The Mods are there to hopefully stop the personal comments. If people want to bang on about the same topic, then the rest of the forum members will chose what they want to do regarding those individuals. I dont think the mods should do that.


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## Diko (Oct 10, 2014)

jrista said:


> You guys completely misinterpret and misrepresent everything I've said about this subject. You lump me in with your run of the mill complainer who jumps from site to site bitching about anything and everything Canon. I've been very consistent in my complaint...and it's just one complaint: Canon's sensor IQ, particularly the quality of their read noise, but their overall IQ that, IMO, suffers because of poor DR which stems from extremely old (ancient, in the tech world) technology. Stop misrepresenting me and my words to the rest of the community.



*Jrista*, it's the avatar. ;-)









privatebydesign said:


> You are a run of the mill complainer, you want something that isn't available in Canon's range, and you want them to make it for you.


 IMO he is making an informed complaining. That means he's quite well aware what the others are doing or intend to do in the near future. He is informed about trends, brands and and all sort of tech stuff. So is *Neuro*. Both create opinions and seem to be among the most acknowledged in this community.

That doesn't mean we shouldn't argue with them. But at least make a point out of it. ;-)


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## StudentOfLight (Oct 11, 2014)

My guesses:
*An expensive "EOS 1D-C Mark-II"*
Stills: 46MP, 8fps 
6.4K Video (in 1.3x crop mode)

*A premium priced "EOS 4"*
Stills: 44.7MP, 6fps
4K Video: (full frame capture)


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## skoobey (Oct 11, 2014)

At this point, I don't even care, I have to think about things like color coordination between the set and the styling, make-up, tonal coordination. What clothes is the model going to wear, how does it look her, what pose is good for the given lighting, but also the outfit... 

Camera is there just to capture all of the hard work. I love my camera, if upgrade is good, I might go that route, but considering the retouching file size, I'm not sure.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 11, 2014)

StudentOfLight said:


> My guesses:
> *An expensive "EOS 1D-C Mark-II"*
> Stills: 46MP, 8fps
> 6.4K Video (in 1.3x crop mode)
> ...



That would ultra sweet, especially if they fix the DR. That plus the DR, those would be a heck of a pair of cams there. I'd be all over that latter one myself.

I have a feeling they won't be so exciting as what you list.


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## StudentOfLight (Oct 12, 2014)

jrista said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
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> > StudentOfLight said:
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On another tangent, can the (W-R, W+R) approach somehow be mated with DPAF?


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