# Canon 5D3 Date, Poll & Info



## Isaac (Oct 18, 2011)

Let's hear your thoughts on the *Canon 5D mark 3*, specifically:

1. Specs
2. Announcement Date
3. Price

Please keep your answers *relevant to the topic.*


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## danski0224 (Oct 18, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Release Date & Poll (your thoughts)*

I would be really surprised if anything is released before the 1DX is in the pipeline and available to purchase.

Furthermore, I would expect to see some significant time between the above and a mention of a 5DII replacement.

I would project availability for the Christmas shopping season, 2012.


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## Tarrum (Oct 18, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Information & Poll (your thoughts)*

I don't think there will be any announcements before March. Perhaps 5D Mark III from March - June, then the 7D with 650D at Photokina. Or in that order.

24 -30 megapixels, 5fps, max ISO 102,400. Just random guessing like always ^^


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## steven63 (Oct 18, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Information & Poll (your thoughts)*


I think the miii will be pushing 30mpx and maybe 6fps. I don't expect to see much in the way of AF improvements beyond what the 7d offers now. And only marginal improvement in low light. I think they will drastically improve video though.

Quite frankly, I think Canon has pulled a bit of sleight of hand with the release of the X. That camera is clearly a sports system. And since Canon said they 'merged' the miv and miii systems, *they didn't say they replaced them (maybe they did replace the miv). * 

I guess my point is I still see a studio camera release (a 1dxs?), with absolutely insane mpx and capabilities. Then, they'll slip the 5d underneath as a cheaper alternative to the semi-pro/pro-sumer market. The key for them is making the 1dxs attractive enough as to not draw sales away with a miii release.

After that, comes the 7d for the same market segment as the X, but with lesser abilities.

It'll be an X for pro sports and a 7d mii for the pro sports wanna-be; an Xs for the studio and high end pros and a 5d miii for the studio and high end wanna-be.

Just my 2c.


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## kubelik (Oct 18, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Information & Poll (your thoughts)*



steven63 said:


> I guess my point is I still see a studio camera release (a 1dxs?), with absolutely insane mpx and capabilities. Then, they'll slip the 5d underneath as a cheaper alternative to the semi-pro/pro-sumer market. The key for them is making the 1dxs attractive enough as to not draw sales away with a miii release.



given canon's situation with the 1Ds Mark III ... why would they go down that path again? they've pretty much admitted that the 5DII killed the 1Ds line, so while I like your thinking of 6 FPS and 30 MP, I think we can be pretty confident that the future 5D Mark III will be the "studio camera" that you're referring to. I'm not sure how much clearer the language of "merging" the two 1D lines can be.

furthermore, I think Canon is correct in proclaiming that it's a multipurpose camera, not just a "sports system". the low-light capabilities, frame rates, full-frame sensor, and still-strong MP count means this camera is great for:

photojournalism
weddings
wildlife

... all in addition to sports. to me, that's a pretty well-rounded set of photographic markets being addressed by a single camera. so I don't get why people are complaining that canon is faking a one-shoe-fits-all with this camera ... because in this case, the shoe does fit.


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## pedro (Oct 18, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Information & Poll (your thoughts)*

*I would have a look at this one...*
as the predicted 1D merging has materialized...
http://www.canonrumors.com/2011/05/5d-mark-iii-more/
*it says: * 
5D Mark III & More
May 2, 2011 Canon 5D Mark III Comments Off 1981
In the wild?
Thereâ€™s word that Canon is sending out test bodies of the next 5D to various key photographers. Obviously theyâ€™ll be under a veil of secrecy. Once this happens, we tend to start getting better information.

Thereâ€™s a thought the next 5D will not push megapixels, but will in fact push image quality and noise reduction. There will be a lot more sharpness and detail at higher ISO. The 26-28 megapixel range is becoming the resolution I keep getting told.

There is apparently a couple of different prototypes in existence.

Whatâ€™s for certain is it will have a 19 point AF, no word on how many crosstype sensors.

*1Ds Mark IV / 1D Mark V
The same person alluded to the merging of the 1D line being sooner than expected. There would need to be some new tech in a merged 1D to keep the 10fps of the 1D and the resolution of the 1Ds. It should be interesting.*

cr

Tags: 1d mark V 1d5 1ds mark IV 1ds4 5D Mark III 5d3


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## te4o (Oct 19, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Information & Poll (your thoughts)*

Pedro, I like your approach ! If we want to predict the future we should read and know the past! Excellent grab here, give us more hope, CR. Everyone is afraid of missing out on his/her preferred specs for the next camtoy. But a 5D3 with this strategy is a perfect compromise: 

- Now noone wants to miss the presumably cleanest ISO and lowest noise ever as in 1Dx (but not many want to pay for it)
- Most of the non-sport journalist profis want more MP than 18 and agree on less than 9 fps
- How much MP is enough to compromise - 26-28 ? From what I've read here in your statements I guess yes.
- more video than 1Dx ? surely, but not much more possible in a DSLR for less than 4K
- trickle down of some nicities too and we are happy!

I hope these test 5Ds will surface sooner than March! CR, we trust you...
Ah, and let there be a 1/2Dx with the same 18MP sensor and half of the rest, just for variety...


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## rocketdesigner (Oct 19, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Information & Poll (your thoughts)*

Strangely, I keep reading around the web many people believe that while the 1DX will be the still photographer's camera (obviously true), the MkIII will be the  video camera.

Not so.

Chuck Westfall, Canon Tech Advisor on the 1DX: 'It will be the most desirable product for people wanting movie shooting in a DSLR."


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 19, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Information & Poll (your thoughts)*



Isaac said:


> Let's hear your thoughts on the *Canon 5D mark 3*, specifically:
> 
> 1. Specs
> 2. Release Date
> ...



24-34MP
6.3fps
properly sampled video
at least prior 1 series level AF at the worst


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## briansquibb (Oct 19, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Information & Poll (your thoughts)*

I am going for a 1DX lite - 18mp, 1 x digit5, new AF - to get the D700 market

_plus_

3Dx with 30+ mp and 5fps prices about the same as the 1Dx to get the Nikon 3x market


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## Isaac (Nov 1, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Release Date Poll (and your thoughts)*

It seems that most people think there is a 25% chance of it coming out on November 3rd with a high % of others who think more around March 2012.

28-32 MP
Digic 5+
3.2" screen
ST-E2 transmitter
5 fps
Dual CF card slots
Other 1DX minor upgrades


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## bycostello (Nov 1, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Release Date Poll (and your thoughts)*

if they are anything like Apple, then they will let the Christmas market pass before announcing..


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## awinphoto (Nov 1, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Release Date Poll (and your thoughts)*

Given they ANNOUNCED the 1dx now and it wont even be available til march 2012, I could see the 5D announced sometime near/after march 2012 but not released until summer/fall 2012 (just in time for photokina)... Heck it better not come out soon, I just bought my 5d II with the rebates... =) All seriousness, the 1dx delay in release must hint at production slowdown/problems/concerns, so a new 5d3 to mass produce probably wont be as quickly as anyone would be hoping for.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 1, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Release Date Poll (and your thoughts)*



awinphoto said:


> All seriousness, the 1dx delay in release must hint at production slowdown/problems/concerns



Or they have some intel about a forthcoming D4, and wanted to be first to the table with an announcement (maybe because it will be better-spec'd than the 1D X, and Canon didn't want to lose face by 'answering' a Nikon announcement with a weaker offering?).


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## RichFisher (Nov 1, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Release Date Poll (and your thoughts)*

After the 1D X, Canon needs to introduce a high resolution version of the 1D X body (call it the 1D X HR - HR for high resolution). The 1D X HR may be announced 1Q or 2Q . After that, milk the market and then introduce the 5D M3. Unless the 5D M3 is significantly lower resolution than the 1D X HR

Wel that is my $0.02 ;D


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## Darkwand (Nov 1, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*

Hmm atleast one store in Sweden is having a sell out of their 5D2 bodies.


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## Isaac (Nov 7, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*

It looks like the *5D3 will be mainly for photographers *with 1DX video functionality. However, if the consumer will want higher end video options they will go for the new "C" series eg. Canon 3DC/5DC.

It looks like *most people think a March 2012 or Photokina 2012 announcement date* for the 5D mark III.


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## AprilForever (Nov 7, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*

I suspect we'll be waiting a while for it.... I don't have a 5Dii, but do have a 7D, and suspect it won't come out for a while either... :'(

I voted Photokina 2012...


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## Isaac (Nov 8, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*

*How could it be that the time frame might be the following?*

September 2005 - Canon 5D
August 2008 - Canon 5D mark II
September 2012 - Canon 5D mark III

*The cycle would be as following:*

2 years 11 months (5D to 5D2)
4 years 1 month (5D2 to 5D3)

A) Surely Canon must hold something of a product 'time frame cycle'? 

B) Also the 5D2 has been outdated for a while now compared to the newer 7D and some other Digic 5 cameras.


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## Axilrod (Nov 9, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Information & Poll (your thoughts)*



rocketdesigner said:


> Strangely, I keep reading around the web many people believe that while the 1DX will be the still photographer's camera (obviously true), the MkIII will be the  video camera.
> 
> Not so.
> 
> Chuck Westfall, Canon Tech Advisor on the 1DX: 'It will be the most desirable product for people wanting movie shooting in a DSLR."



Of course Canon's tech advisor is going to say this, and as of the moment it may be true. Canon is trying to use the 1dx to squeeze some juice out of the video market, but it's clear there is going to be a better option coming soon. 

If the advisor said "the 1DX is the most desirable product for movie shooting on a DSLR, but we have an even better camera coming soon that will be cheaper," no one would buy the 1DX for video.


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## Isaac (Nov 14, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*

I think that Canon have created enough difference between:
- 1DX coming March
- 5D3 that's coming
- New "C" camera coming this year

Therefore I don't think they'll put off the 5D3 too much longer after the 1DX is available as I don't think it'll pose a threat to these other models.


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## DavidM (Nov 14, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*

5d3 in march
30-36 mp
4.2+ fps
digic 5+
dual CF slots


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## JR (Nov 14, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*



Isaac said:


> *How could it be that the time frame might be the following?*
> 
> September 2005 - Canon 5D
> August 2008 - Canon 5D mark II
> ...



I agree with you Isaac Canon must and surely has a product cycle here. However I still believe the missing variable in this discussion for the 5DIII is Nikon. The fact Nikon has had some manufacturing downfall with the flooding has likely delayed their announcement of the D700 replacement. I think this is why Canon was in no rush to announce a new camera of its own because in the FF segment, the 5D II still outsells the D700, so Nikon needs it more badly then Canon (and us for that matter!).

All the invents in Asia in the past 6 months have shifted product roadmap by 6-12 months (this is my opinion only!). I think all the timing discussed in this post makes sense, but as soon as Nikon makes a move and depending how quickly they can supply a D800, it will make pressure on Canon to make a move. Originally I think Canon wanted to have Nikon make the first move...

My two cents.


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## iaind (Nov 14, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*

I don't think Canon will announce specs of 5DIII until 1DX has hit the shops in numbers. Initial sales will be to PJ's to cover Olympics and Euro 2012. Would you spend megabucks on two bodies if another camera at half the price but with less features was available in 6 months time.
Earliest possible announcement looks like Photokina hopefully with release within a month.


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## willrobb (Nov 18, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*



JR said:


> Isaac said:
> 
> 
> > *How could it be that the time frame might be the following?*
> ...


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## handsomerob (Nov 20, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*



JR said:


> All the invents in Asia in the past 6 months have shifted product roadmap by 6-12 months (this is my opinion only!). I think all the timing discussed in this post makes sense, but as soon as Nikon makes a move and depending how quickly they can supply a D800, it will make pressure on Canon to make a move. Originally I think Canon wanted to have Nikon make the first move...



+1 that! 
NR just posted more D800 rumors, even some pictures! So that could be your move 
Interesting times ahead, go for it Canon!


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## alipaulphotography (Nov 20, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*

The 1DX is designed to cover the high end sports/wedding/photojournalism market. This is to make those pro's who did have a 5D MKII dish out a bit more cash for a pro body. The longer they wait before releasing the MKIII the more people will upgrade.
I can't imagine them releasing the MKIII anytime soon.

The only thing the 1DX is missing is massive resolution. The MKII is still the camera of choice for studio and landscape photographers. In order to get that market to upgrade, they need a higher resolution DSLR. This will surely be the MKIII. It will be very slow, very high MP with an improved autofocus. That would be enough to have an upgrade covering all bases.

The new cinema DSLR and the C300 will be the video cameras in the line up.

All bases covered for canon with them getting maximum profit.


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## Isaac (Nov 20, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*



alipaulphotography said:


> The 1DX is designed to cover the high end sports/wedding/photojournalism market. This is to make those pro's who did have a 5D MKII dish out a bit more cash for a pro body. The longer they wait before releasing the MKIII the more people will upgrade.
> I can't imagine them releasing the MKIII anytime soon.
> 
> The only thing the 1DX is missing is massive resolution. The MKII is still the camera of choice for studio and landscape photographers. In order to get that market to upgrade, they need a higher resolution DSLR. This will surely be the MKIII. It will be very slow, very high MP with an improved autofocus. That would be enough to have an upgrade covering all bases.
> ...



I don't agree that Canon will wait in order to get pro's to dish out more money on the 1DX. You need to remember that the money to be made on the 5D3 is gigantic and there's a massive part of the market waiting eagerly to purchase it as soon as it comes out. Just in plain specs there will be enough of a differentiating factor with the 1DX and the 5D3. 

Additionally, if Nikon release the D800 at 36mp and far superior specs to the 5D2, why would Canon wait another 8-10 months in bringing out it's competition. We've heard over time that Canon would have a lot more pressure on them if the D800 comes out regardless of 1DX differentiation etc.

A lot is hinting at a 5D3 release date of March 2012.


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## alipaulphotography (Nov 20, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*



Isaac said:


> alipaulphotography said:
> 
> 
> > The 1DX is designed to cover the high end sports/wedding/photojournalism market. This is to make those pro's who did have a 5D MKII dish out a bit more cash for a pro body. The longer they wait before releasing the MKIII the more people will upgrade.
> ...



I agree. If it were only up to canon, they would sit and wait till the 1DX has been taken up by the pro market. The release of a D800 will force them to counter with an impressive spec-ed MKIII.

I look forward to the battle!


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## nounours18200 (Nov 20, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*

I have a 5D and I have not upgraded to the 5D2 because I believed the gap was not enough to justify a new investment, but I will surely buy a 5D3 if the progress is here (and I see no reason to doubt).

I believe the 5D3 will be announced as soon as Nikon starts moving: the current 5D2 is outdated and there a *lot* of potential buyers.... But as usual with Canon, I believe in my own patience, and not in their customer care attitude ! 

March 2012 looks the most probable to my eyes...


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## CanonFanNum1 (Nov 20, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*

Announcement Date: Not Soon Enough.

Thoughts: If we could get a 5DmkII with an upgraded autofocus sensor and slightly faster framerate, that's really enough for me. I know if you already have a 5DmkII thats not enough for you to upgrade, but those are the biggest weaknesses IMHO and for those who don't have a 5DmkII, that is worthy enough improvement. 

Current 5DmkII sensor is great, I worry if Canon pushes resolution further, the IQ per pixel will decrease (along with increased noise). Same argument why the 1DX isn't more megapixels, its better-pixels. Maybe a small increase would be nice, but a jump to 36MP or something like that will drop IQ so much, why bother.


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## JR (Nov 20, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*



CanonFanNum1 said:


> Current 5DmkII sensor is great, I worry if Canon pushes resolution further, the IQ per pixel will decrease (along with increased noise). Same argument why the 1DX isn't more megapixels, its better-pixels. Maybe a small increase would be nice, but a jump to 36MP or something like that will drop IQ so much, why bother.



Makes you wonder why would Nikon go all the way to 36MP doesn't it? Their ISO performance will likely take a hit unless they found something new and amazing! Given ISO performance was one of their strong suite, it is odd. I agree that a small increase to the current 21MP would be fine for most of us...We cannot go backward on ISO performance...


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## alipaulphotography (Nov 20, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*

The 1DX is _almost_ my desired camera. I wanted something around 18mp with a focus on low light performance. I also am a user of the video features. The autofocus system is certainly welcome. Things I'm less keen on:

a). Price - Can't justify it.
b). FPS isn't necessary for my work.
c). Bulk - I like the option to remove the battery grip when I need lighter gear.

It is a shame, and I'm not even sure the 5D MKIII will have what I want. We'll have to wait and see.


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## KeithR (Nov 20, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*



CanonFanNum1 said:


> if Canon pushes resolution further, the IQ per pixel will decrease (along with increased noise).


Seriously - this is rubbish. It just _doesn't happen_ like that.



> Same argument why the 1DX isn't more megapixels, its better-pixels.


There's _no such thing_ as "better" pixels.


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## handsomerob (Nov 20, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*



CanonFanNum1 said:


> Current 5DmkII sensor is great, I worry if Canon pushes resolution further, the IQ per pixel will decrease (along with increased noise).



The reason why 5DIII is still not released is maybe because the 5DII's sensor is so awesome and offers such a great balance of pixel count/high-ISO performance that Canon knows they need to come up with something extraordinary to name it a worthy successor.

While too much pixels would ruin this scenario, many people will not be happy if 5DIII is not in the 28-36MP range, especially since the 1Ds is discontinued. Add this the pressure from Nikon and Sony side... I personally prefer a nice balance, just like 5DII has, improved AF would be much more welcome.


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## KeithR (Nov 20, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*



JR said:


> Makes you wonder why would Nikon go all the way to 36MP doesn't it?


Because they know that the "more pixels = more noise" meme is nonsense? 



> Their ISO performance will likely take a hit


Where has this _ever_ happened so far? I'll tell you: _nowhere_. 

_Every_ increase in pixel density so far has been accompanied by an improvement in noise (and, often DR) performance.


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## Isaac (Nov 20, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*



alipaulphotography said:


> The 1DX is _almost_ my desired camera. I wanted something around 18mp with a focus on low light performance. I also am a user of the video features. The autofocus system is certainly welcome. Things I'm less keen on:
> 
> a). Price - Can't justify it.
> b). FPS isn't necessary for my work.
> ...



I agree. If you don't need everything/like everything on the 1DX then it's very difficult to justify spending around $7000. The 5D3 (most likely) will give me everything that I need and best of all it's in my price range of around $3000. The difference between 1DX and 5D3 will be over $4000 - which is a lot.

It's going to be interesting to see how Canon respond to the D800. Will they try match the 36mp or will they just concede and try and beat the D800 is other areas. 

Very excited for the coming announcements!


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## JR (Nov 20, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*



KeithR said:


> JR said:
> 
> 
> > Makes you wonder why would Nikon go all the way to 36MP doesn't it?
> ...



My comment was more around today if you look at low light king and high ISO performer, their relative pixel size are larger then the next in line, so for example the 12MP D3s has better ISO performance then our 21MP 5D mkII.

If for example Nikon upcoming D800 has the same or better ISO performance with 36MP that they have today at 12MP, well that would be a breakthrough, but we have yet to see this...I hope for it though!


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## handsomerob (Nov 20, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*



JR said:


> If for example Nikon upcoming D800 has the same or better ISO performance with 36MP that they have today at 12MP, well that would be a breakthrough, but we have yet to see this...I hope for it though!



totally!!


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## alipaulphotography (Nov 21, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*

Any idea how big a 36mp RAW file would be in MB? I'm currently working with 13mp in the 5D and it is perfect for all the wedding work I do. Hard drives are cheap, so really isn't the end of the world, but unless image quality is improved it would be an unnecessary jump. Wouldn't it be great if cameras were upgradable like computers?
I just upgraded my macbook to an SSD and 8GB RAM and it is like a new machine. If the 5D MKII could upgrade it's autofocus, it would be my perfect camera.


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## Tarrum (Nov 21, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*

The way I see it is that a few years ago, DSLR brands were constantly putting out something new. We customers were okay with it, but that's mostly because there weren't many choices and you didn't really care that much.

Today, we are the ones who want new technologies, faster and better, while the companies want to "delay" this for as long as possible; they know their stuff is good and we know it is as well, so there's no point of them upgrading what still competes very well with today cameras.

My 2 cents. The D800 and 5D MK III are surely coming in 2012.


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## Edwin Herdman (Nov 21, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*



KeithR said:


> CanonFanNum1 said:
> 
> 
> > if Canon pushes resolution further, the IQ per pixel will decrease (along with increased noise).
> ...


You can have better pixels.

I think the thing you've forgotten (or don't understand) is that there are varying standards for ISO performance as far as the photographer's concerned:

a.) Per-frame (or per unit area) ISO performance - this is what you're talking about. For most people, this is most relevant.

b.) Per a fixed number of pixels (i.e. 4 pixels from one sensor compared with 4 from another). For some photographers with certain requirements, this may in fact be more relevant. If your target is bird photography (for example) and you typically shoot with your longest lens in challenging light (i.e. sunrise or sunset) and can't approach as close as you like, you both would like a high pixel density but also for the output to be as high quality as possible.

Alternatively (and I would agree with you that this following argument isn't a clear winner to me) some people argue that for less resolution-demanding applications - moderate sized prints or web presentation - they may get better performance out of a camera with larger pixels than the closest-specified one with smaller pixels (i.e. the 5D Mark II actually comes fairly close to the 7D in terms of per-pixel sharnpess for birding, after uprezzing the 8mp center area of the 5D roughly analogous to the 7D's full frame and of course there's no contest for full frame landscape shots if you want to preserve your wider perspective - that's before taking into account dynamic range and color saturation capacity, as well).

One of these standards isn't better than the other; they're different.

I've been banging the drum for submerging the importance given to the "lower pixel counts = lower IQ" meme for months. I criticized it when a Canon rep from Germany allegedly made comments about lower pixel counts being equivalent to higher quality, and I criticized it (although somewhat less enthusastically) when Chuck Westfall started falling into the same pattern. We have to realize that this is merely an argument about the best balance - not about a "best" strategy for all situations.

I am one of the first people to post reminders that you can't talk about the IQ of a "single pixel;" IQ comparisons only make sense when you have more than one pixel (and, realistically, far more than four) pixels to compare. But that wasn't the original intent of the poster you were replying to. It is an important concept, though, because it's one of the two extreme cases for pixel density that we can take up to show that the "pixel density vs. ISO performance" cliche actually is true, but only as a balanced result taking into account technology.

For fun, consider the extreme cases: If you have one monolithic, sensor-size pixel, clearly we can't say anything about its quality other than to say how effective it is at capturing light (it approaches 100% of photons hitting the sensor plane better than smaller pixels; typical camera sensor photosites lose quite a bit, especially older models without microlenses, and even the microlenses require the light to be coming in from a fairly precise direction, which is allegedly a problem with some lenses, wideangles being the prime example quoted). Start to break that sensor up into smaller pixels, and each of those pixels will still capture much more light (total) than any photosite on a camera sensor currently on the market - it still requires fewer tradeoffs in terms of noise reduction to be made, and the bar for rejecting a sensor due to faulty photosites is set higher (bad for the camera maker - good for the consumer). The other extreme is a sensor with a pixel count approaching infinity - each sensor site might capture only one photon, or none; at that point it is challenging at best to determine if a signal from any photosite is appropriate or wholly spurious. Readings could only be made by statistical analysis of all sensor sites.

In practice, larger photosites capture more light and so less aggressive gain needs to be applied to the signal read from them. They should be relatively more immune to breakage (as I mentioned earlier, there should be a higher threshhold for the number of bad photosites to require a sensor be rejected on a sensor with smaller, and hence more, photosites) and they should be more immune to bleeding of charge from one photosite to another. Smaller photosites, on the other hand, can overwhelm the problem of individually capturing fewer photosites by the fact that they still are statistically significant - and four pixels in place of one is a massive increase in translating the capture of light into information, so clearly the goal of sensor development is to maximize this trend. A good sensor design strives to find the balance of these two competing tendencies that best takes into account the current state of sensor technology.


KeithR said:


> JR said:
> 
> 
> > Makes you wonder why would Nikon go all the way to 36MP doesn't it?
> ...


I'm not going to discount the tendency of the camera manufacturers to generalize the truth to something useless but presentably marketable.

However, you are dismissing the reality that every increase in pixel density in any case you wish to cite has also been accompanied by improvements in technology (and also that we are discussing the per-frame or per-area metrics of image quality, and dismissing the per-pixel count metrics).

In other words, the camera manufacturers have already, prior to releasing their cameras, already done the job of determining how many pixels to fit on their sensors, and they have had to factor in the practicality of producing sensors with the proposed pixel count on current processes (i.e. can it physically be made in quantity, at what baseline cost, and what will the reject rate be like) as well as making the determination about where to balance noise and pixel counts. There is also the matter of data transfer rates, and less relevantly storage capacities in commonly available media, which are the major factors holding back pixel sizes. So far, these pale in relevance to the other factors pushing forward pixel counts (although perhaps the argument that people want to speed up their workflow and get more use out of their hard drives has gained some traction recently).

Since they have done the job of determining the balance of ISO to pixel counts, it should therefore be no mystery that your observations can be correct despite the relative lack of dud cameras on the market.

I have made the case (just on my supposition) before that the relationship between noise and pixel counts is much more complicated than many people would admit - with noise probably rising more slowly than pixel counts. This wouldn't alter the overall outline of the case I've made that I can see.


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## pin_o (Nov 21, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*

I've been at a canon event , they told us that that 5dmkii will be on the products list for the all 2012 ( true or not ..i don't know )


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## pulsiv (Nov 21, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*

I'd say,

1. 30+ mpixel, 5fps, AF-system of 7D
2. march 2012... the 5DII sells way to good to announce it before...
3. 150 - 200% of what the 5DII cost... (they aim for 1Ds + 5DII-owners, don't they...?)


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## Isaac (Nov 21, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*



pulsiv said:


> I'd say,
> 
> 1. 30+ mpixel, 5fps, AF-system of 7D
> 2. march 2012... the 5DII sells way to good to announce it before...
> 3. 150 - 200% of what the 5DII cost... (they aim for 1Ds + 5DII-owners, don't they...?)



You said the 5D2 sells too well for the 5D3 to arrive before March '12. What makes you think that Canon won't wait till Photokina or late 2012? People may still be purchasing lots of 5D2's even then.


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## JR (Nov 21, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*



Isaac said:


> pulsiv said:
> 
> 
> > I'd say,
> ...



I think this will be highly dependant on when the Nikon D800 gets officially announced and launched. If this is early 2012, I dont think Canon will want to wait too long to respond. Then again if the D800 keeps getting delayed, then there is less pressure on Canon to bring it. I really Canon will wait for the D800 before doing anything...my two cents.


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## pulsiv (Nov 22, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*

I think, they will (or at least should) rely on the 5DII's life cycle, rather than the announcement of the D800... 
If the cash cow still sells... why bother announcing a new one?  
from a business-point of view, it would make sense... so I'd say march 2012 or later...


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## briansquibb (Nov 22, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*



pulsiv said:


> I think, they will (or at least should) rely on the 5DII's life cycle, rather than the announcement of the D800...
> If the cash cow still sells... why bother announcing a new one?
> from a business-point of view, it would make sense... so I'd say march 2012 or later...



+1


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## Isaac (Nov 28, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*

Thats true however the D800 is going to play a big role in Canon's decision. 

Why would Canon watch the D800 get released, totally dominate over the 5D2, Nikon steal part of the market and then 6-9 months later wake up and release the 5D3?

I think logic would say Canon have chosen their specs of the 5D3 and are waiting to announce it at any given moment.


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## pedro (Nov 28, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Information & Poll (your thoughts)*



Tarrum said:


> I don't think there will be any announcements before March. Perhaps 5D Mark III from March - June, then the 7D with 650D at Photokina. Or in that order.
> 
> 24 -30 megapixels, 5fps, max ISO 102,400.



*+1 * hoping for an MP count below the 30 mark, 24-28 MP, 
hoping for March, though I consider that as quite unlikely. 
I voted Photokina.


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## DavidM (Nov 28, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*

I don't know why everyone thinks Photokina? September is a very long time away (10 months) with a release date of about 2 months would make it a year a way from now.

*I don't think this is likely.*

So much can happen in 12 months, keeping in mind product life cycle plus nikon d800 - I think March is much more realistic. Please remember, Canon have NOT forgotten about us


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## lol (Nov 28, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*

How soon do people want a 5D3? I'm asking as the 5D2 is at an all time low price that's more tempting to me than ever. If I get the 5D2 now, expect a 5D3 announcement soon. If I don't, there may be a long wait ahead...


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## pedro (Nov 28, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*



lol said:


> How soon do people want a 5D3? I'm asking as the 5D2 is at an all time low price that's more tempting to me than ever. If I get the 5D2 now, expect a 5D3 announcement soon. If I don't, there may be a long wait ahead...



So go and get your Mark II, finally want to know what to expect of a 5D3 specswise. 8)


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## justsomedude (Nov 29, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*

I was recently told by a Canon employee (I will not mention their seniority, affiliation, etc., as to protect their identity) that he has seen "hints of a new EOS body" being unveiled at "the 2012 CES show". CES 2012 is scheduled for January 10-13.

The employee I spoke with admitted that he was not privy to product launch information, or "in development" EOS bodies, and that specific launch date details are heavily guarded company secrets. However, he did mention that Canon had plans for a "larger than normal" CES booth/presence this year, with arrangements being made for high level employees and product reps. to be on hand.

It's definitely a "read between the lines" kind of scenario - but interesting none the less.


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## Isaac (Dec 1, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*

I don't think the 5D3 will be announced before March. The event scheduled in January may have some good announcements but nothing as big as the 5D series.


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## JR (Dec 2, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*



Isaac said:


> I don't think the 5D3 will be announced before March. The event scheduled in January may have some good announcements but nothing as big as the 5D series.



I agree, from previous post I hope January brings a few more lens announcements. CR had mentionned maybe a new 24-70L and maybe a new 35L...but likely no new EOS bodies...


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## DavidM (Dec 5, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*



Isaac said:


> I don't think the 5D3 will be announced before March. The event scheduled in January may have some good announcements but nothing as big as the 5D series.



+1


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## Isaac (Dec 5, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*

Let's see what happens with

1. the January event that Canon is going to be present at
2. the Nikon D800 announcement

I think the consensus is that March is more realistic that Photokina. Taking into account the D800 as well as the late product time frame cycle - it's harder to justify an announcement as late as Photokina.


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## Angryoak (Dec 7, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*

Maybe Canon should hold off bringing a new camera to the market, until they have fixed there woeful autofocus problem (or at least until they admit to a problem (7D)).


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## Isaac (Dec 8, 2011)

*Re: Canon 5D3 Announcement Date & Poll (and your thoughts)*

There have been enough people to complain about the 5D2 AF system. I'm positive that Canon will give the 5D3 a much improved AF, from what pro's have told me - it certainly will not be similar/same to the 5D2.


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