# Canon announces more mind blowing specs for the Canon EOS R5



## Canon Rumors Guy (Apr 20, 2020)

> *MELVILLE, N.Y., April 20, 2020* – Canon U.S.A. Inc., a leader in digital imaging solutions, today is sharing additional specifications of the highly anticipated Canon EOS R5 full-frame mirrorless camera currently in development. The newly released information divulges further details on the 8K video recording capability, IBIS and more.
> Newly Announced Details of The Canon EOS R5 Full-Frame Mirrorless Camera include:
> 
> 8K RAW internal video recording up to 29.97 fps
> ...



Continue reading...


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## peters (Apr 20, 2020)

sick!


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## gputah (Apr 20, 2020)

Wow, that is looking pretty awesome! Its on the lines of "Too good to be true" but, its straight from Canon.....


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## bsbeamer (Apr 20, 2020)

take my money now


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## Brymills (Apr 20, 2020)

Sony is *******!


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## CanonOmar (Apr 20, 2020)

I'm putting my Sony gear up for sale and switching back to Canon inshaAllah! I sold my 5D3 and lenses last year and jumped on the Sony train because I just couldn't get what I wanted from Canon... BUT THIS IS GOLD!


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## CanonOmar (Apr 20, 2020)

CanonOmar said:


> I'm putting my Sony gear up for sale and switching back to Canon inshaAllah! I sold my 5D3 and lenses last year and jumped on the Sony train because I just couldn't get what I wanted from Canon... BUT THIS IS GOLD!


If anyone wants a gently used Sony A7III with some great primes, hmu!


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## DrToast (Apr 20, 2020)

> No crop 8K and 4K video capture using the full-width of the sensor.*



Why the asterisk?


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## tiltshift (Apr 20, 2020)

I just hope that because of how awesome this is that they don't price this at like $6k... I know its a 5 series "replacement" or whatever so it should be in the $3500 range but.....


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## joestopper (Apr 20, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...



Amazing!
Canon puts on top of what was already hard to believe - in any aspect!
Now, it gets even harder to wait for market intro!


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## Starting out EOS R (Apr 20, 2020)

When????


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## DrToast (Apr 20, 2020)

DrToast said:


> Why the asterisk?



Found it on DPReview: *When in 8K RAW, 8K/4K DCI modes.


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## Joel C (Apr 20, 2020)

Better start stacking up them Cfast cards...

CFexpress*


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## peters (Apr 20, 2020)

tiltshift said:


> I just hope that because of how awesome this is that they don't price this at like $6k... I know its a 5 series "replacement" or whatever so it should be in the $3500 range but.....


While I guess its around 3800-4000 USD, I would be even willing to bay 6k for this incredible all-in-one-camera. It could replace my 1D AND 5D and would be still way more powerfull than both combined =)


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## Tom W (Apr 20, 2020)

WANT!!!!

Pent up desire here - Nothing wrong with my R or the 5D4, but this sounds like the cat's whiskers!


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## Mark3794 (Apr 20, 2020)

******* i tell you! Repent now!


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## KeithBreazeal (Apr 20, 2020)




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## MadisonMike (Apr 20, 2020)

tiltshift said:


> I just hope that because of how awesome this is that they don't price this at like $6k... I know its a 5 series "replacement" or whatever so it should be in the $3500 range but.....


That is a big question that there has not been any mention of, PRICE. Now even at $4500 that would be a deal. I know not cheap, but look at the tech involved and it needs to be below the 1DXIII, but can be higher than the Sony since it has the specs to back up the price.


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## analoggrotto (Apr 20, 2020)

Canon tossed the war drum off of the balcony and rolled in the war gong!


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## Viggo (Apr 20, 2020)

This might be a bigger game changer than both the 5d and 5d2 combined. Ridiculous specs l, if they keep in the 5d price range it will be a homerun.


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## joestopper (Apr 20, 2020)

KeithBreazeal said:


> View attachment 189991



Sorry, but no, that is not Canon.They do their own thing (and they certainly not gleeful)


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## RMac (Apr 20, 2020)

Any reason to get a 1DXiii now other than form factor and preference for OVF?
I'm guessing this is going to be in a similar price range...


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## jalps (Apr 20, 2020)

Am I crazy or does this potentially eat into some C500 sales? If you're looking for FF 4k 60fps clog 10bit 422, your only option was to go with the full $16k C500 m2 beast. This would be an option at 1/4 the price that loses some features people may be willing to part with considering the savings...


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## todddominey (Apr 20, 2020)

Very impressive video specs. No crop 4K at 120fps internal is really all I would ever want/need. Now I just want to hear more about still specs, specifically megapixels (rumored to be ~45mp, but we'll see).


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## tpatana (Apr 20, 2020)

The website link works for someone? I get 404.


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## chaos2k (Apr 20, 2020)

tpatana said:


> The website link works for someone? I get 404.


404 here maybe it will go live when this announcement is over


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## VICYASA (Apr 20, 2020)

$4,999 USD... if we are lucky!


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## Dantana (Apr 20, 2020)

jalps said:


> Am I crazy or does this potentially eat into some C500 sales? If you're looking for FF 4k 60fps clog 10bit 422, your only option was to go with the full $16k C500 m2 beast. This would be an option at 1/4 the price that loses some features people may be willing to part with considering the savings...


Possibly a bit, but those 2 cameras are for very different markets. The C500 will be something rental houses buy.


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## ColinJR (Apr 20, 2020)

DrToast said:


> Why the asterisk?


Given the rumors regarding the sensor, I‘m guessing there _is _in fact a small crop to go from 45MP to the native res of 8K, but for all intents and purposes, it‘s basically the full width of the sensor.


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## Cochese (Apr 20, 2020)

jalps said:


> Am I crazy or does this potentially eat into some C500 sales? If you're looking for FF 4k 60fps clog 10bit 422, your only option was to go with the full $16k C500 m2 beast. This would be an option at 1/4 the price that loses some features people may be willing to part with considering the savings...



Unlikely. Different cameras for different jobs. You won't likely be shooting any major movies with the R5 due to what will likely be heat dissipation limitations that will limit how long one can record. And then there are all of the attachments and accessories that are acquirable for the C500. Though, I can see this becoming the newer "Cheap B camera" option that the 5DII became back in the day. 


I do find the next C300 interesting though, while it doesn't do 8k, it does offer a new dual-gain sensor with a claimed 16+stops of DR.


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## StarJack (Apr 20, 2020)

This is looking so good!


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## MVPhoto (Apr 20, 2020)

I sold my 5D mk3 last week! I'll be pre-ordering this thing the day is goes online! This is insane!


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## dwarven (Apr 20, 2020)

Dang, was not expecting uncropped 8K. This camera will be a happy buck or two.


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## ckwaller (Apr 20, 2020)

This sounds almost too good to be true. The last Canon body I purchased was a 5D3 in 2012, so I'm itching for something new, especially as a mirrorless hybrid shooter.

I'm going to guess this camera comes in at a minimum of $4,500. The 5D3 and 5D4 both came in at $3,500, so an extra $1,000 isn't too unreasonable for the specs and tech they're cramming into a mirrorless body. Of course, my mind will be blown if the release the R5 at the standard $3,500 or less.

My only concern is on the video side. I haven't done any work using HEVC/H.265. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only camera in recent memory I can recall using the codec was the Samsung NX1. How does this codec compare compared to MotionJPEG of the 5D4? Will it require transcoding to ProRes or DnX or the use of proxies for efficient video editing? Can most computers handle it well?


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## chaos2k (Apr 20, 2020)

EOS R5 Body


High Image Quality featuring a New 45 Megapixel Full-frame CMOS Sensor. DIGIC X Image Processor with an ISO range of 100-51200; Expandable to 102400*1. High-Speed Continuous Shooting of up to 12 fps with Mechanical Shutter and up to 20 fps Electronic (Silent) Shutter. Dual Pixel CMOS AF II...




www.usa.canon.com


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## herein2020 (Apr 20, 2020)

Great specs but I'm still waiting for the simple stuff:

Recording limit?
XLR Module?
Record video to BOTH card slots at least at the lower resolutions?
Battery life?


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## ahsanford (Apr 20, 2020)

Canon EOS R5 Mirrorless Digital Camera (Body Only)


Buy Canon EOS R5 Mirrorless Digital Camera (R5 Camera Body) features Newly Developed Full-Frame CMOS Sensor, 8K Video Recording. Review Canon New Arrivals: Trending And Popular cameras




www.bhphotovideo.com





"Newly Developed Full-Frame CMOS Sensor" rather than stating the resolution = recycling the earlier development statement but not outing any specs or violating NDA. 

- A


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## lo lite (Apr 20, 2020)

chaos2k said:


> 404 here maybe it will go live when this announcement is over


here the link does work, it redirects to https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/...e/product-showcases/cameras-and-lenses/eos-r5


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## Kanon (Apr 20, 2020)

enough of the teasing already. get to the climax AVAILABLE WHEN AND AT WHAT PRICE!!!!


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## jalps (Apr 20, 2020)

Cochese said:


> Unlikely. Different cameras for different jobs. You won't likely be shooting any major movies with the R5 due to what will likely be heat dissipation limitations that will limit how long one can record. And then there are all of the attachments and accessories that are acquirable for the C500. Though, I can see this becoming the newer "Cheap B camera" option that the 5DII became back in the day.
> 
> 
> I do find the next C300 interesting though, while it doesn't do 8k, it does offer a new dual-gain sensor with a claimed 16+stops of DR.



I totally agree with you, the people eyeing the C500 are generally not looking downward to an R5 as a replacement. However, for someone who's looking upward trying to check the most popular boxes right now:

DPAF 
IBIS
4k60, 8k24
Internal 10bit 422
C-Log
The R5 seems to hit them all and at a mere fraction of the C500's cost. So this would be cutting out the lower budget "aspiring youtube filmmaker" audience from looking to the C500 to get all of those features. I guess Canon figures that they would never be able to afford the C500 anyway, and since the designs are so fundamentally different from one another, they're not cannibalizing their sales.


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## GoldWing (Apr 20, 2020)

16bit color? 
MP's? 45?


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## BeenThere (Apr 20, 2020)

Might as well throw in dual gain sensor for 16 stops of DR.


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## Go Wild (Apr 20, 2020)

Just put the God DAmn camera in my handsssss!!!!!!!!! I am very happy and excited with Canon and this R5!!!! I am really with top level of anxiety!!!


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## Trey T (Apr 20, 2020)

Crazy video detail specs. Now let’s see details for photos


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## analoggrotto (Apr 20, 2020)

What if this turns out to be a video-only mirrorless camera?


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## Pape (Apr 20, 2020)

yeah they may decided 20mpix is enough for photos


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## bbasiaga (Apr 20, 2020)

Man, if they strip the video specs out of this and call it an R6 I could be all in on that. I know the R6 has other changes as well. But I don't think I'll be able to afford this R5 until its been on the used market for a while. 

Although, on price it would be an interesting move by canon to keep it at the $3500 mark and suck everyone over to the RF mount. 

-Brian


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## Starting out EOS R (Apr 20, 2020)

This is looking to be an amazing advance in technology that will overshadow many other companies products, Sony, Nikon etc. I was hoping to stretch things and sell my EOS R for this but it looks more and more likely it will be out of my price range if above the expected 5D MKIV £3500 / £3699 mark which it's likely to be. 

May have to look at the R6 but not sure I like dropping to 20mp??


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## davidhfe (Apr 20, 2020)

I can't get enough of what Canon is doing here. Folks literally cannot believe that Canon can create this camera, and the influencer cohort keeps bending over backwards to find caveats which canon then has to address.

Canon: 8K!
Youtube: There'll be a Crop! It's time-lapse!
Canon: No really, it's 8K video full width!
Youtube: It'll be MJPEG! No Autofocus! Canon will nerf it!
Canon: No, really. 8K Raw internal to CFe

Same thing with IBIS:
Canon: It'll be stabilized!
Youtube: Might be electronic!
Canon: No really, we have a novel scheme for IBIS
Youtube: Canon marketing again! It's going to be electronic!!
Canon: Seriously shut up.

I CANNOT WAIT to see what the YT contingent comes up with after this drop. Gonna go get some popcorn ready right now.


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## mcfrlnd (Apr 20, 2020)

Just missing the price now...


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## Mars1954 (Apr 20, 2020)

SuCane said:


> Drew MacCallum said "Below $4000"


I politely ask who is Drew MacCallum and how does he know the price?


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## ahsanford (Apr 20, 2020)

HOLY CRAP THEY STILL WON'T ANNOUNCE THE SENSOR RESOLUTION

Canon pushed this out on Twitter 5 minutes ago:








EOS R5 Body


High Image Quality featuring a New 45 Megapixel Full-frame CMOS Sensor. DIGIC X Image Processor with an ISO range of 100-51200; Expandable to 102400*1. High-Speed Continuous Shooting of up to 12 fps with Mechanical Shutter and up to 20 fps Electronic (Silent) Shutter. Dual Pixel CMOS AF II...




www.usa.canon.com





Do a search for 'pixel' or case-sensitive MP. All you will get are DPAF hits.

- A


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## WelshTony (Apr 20, 2020)

SuCane said:


> Drew MacCallum said "Below $4000"



But not in relation to the R5!!


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## martin_p_a (Apr 20, 2020)

ckwaller said:


> My only concern is on the video side. I haven't done any work using HEVC/H.265. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only camera in recent memory I can recall using the codec was the Samsung NX1. How does this codec compare compared to MotionJPEG of the 5D4? Will it require transcoding to ProRes or DnX or the use of proxies for efficient video editing? Can most computers handle it well?



Depends if you have hardware decoding of H.265. As a video editor, unless time is an issue, I’d always rather work with proxies anyway.


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## Mike9129 (Apr 20, 2020)

WelshTony said:


> But not in relation to the R5!!


He was mentioning how the 5D2 (I think?) launched around that price

someone said a few posts up about the IBIS in the camera, he also said in the live stream it was an electronic system in the R5

Quick edit: This camera is an instant buy at this stage for me, I really hope they put one hell of a battery in it to feed all these specs!


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## ahsanford (Apr 20, 2020)

I've said $3499 for some time and I believe CR Guy was in some general agreement with me.

All of that makes sense for what is shaping up to be a mirrorless 5D5.

...but those video specs are just insane and disproportionate to what we expect at that price point.

- A


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## Gti5notrkt (Apr 20, 2020)

Mike9129 said:


> He was mentioning how the 5D2 (I think?) launched around that price
> 
> someone said a few posts up about the IBIS in the camera, he also said in the live stream it was an electronic system in the R5



5D2 launched at $2700. I specifically heard $4,000 too as he was going through the history of groundbreaking EOS releases and thought it was odd he called out that price point. As if it was an Easter egg on the R5 price


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## cosmopotter (Apr 20, 2020)

This is all spectacular of course, but I find it most interesting that the sensor resolution specs are still not included. I worked for Canon so I know better than most that practicality is a big consideration for Canon. They are likely testing different sensors and processors to see what works best. My guess is that they’re going to have an 8K sensor or an 8K DCI sensor which equals about 33 or 35 megapixels. An 8K sensor means less processing and easier to achieve all the spectacular specs. Everyone should remember that the 5 series cameras are the Swiss Army knives. It is not supposed to be the high-resolution camera, it’s supposed to be a bit of everything.


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## neurorx (Apr 20, 2020)

I really hope this has great low light performance....this would make me very happy!!! These specs are incredible.


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## JuanMa (Apr 20, 2020)

One small step for Canon, one giant leap for photographers…


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## martin_p_a (Apr 20, 2020)

If it is 3500$ I’m snatching one, no questions asked (even if I love having money in my bank account and 3500$ is still a good chunk). But with those specs, I’m afraid it’ll be more — could even be way more — and that’ll give me pause. But I want one SO. FRICKING. BAD.


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## mcfrlnd (Apr 20, 2020)

ahsanford said:


> I've said $3499 for some time and I believe CR Guy was in some general agreement with me.
> 
> All of that makes sense for what is shaping up to be a mirrorless 5D5.
> 
> ...


I'm of the same mind...$3500. I'm also banking on their pronouncement of being aggressive in the market...crossing my fingers!
That CFE card is going to fill up quick with 8K


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## Mike9129 (Apr 20, 2020)

Gti5notrkt said:


> 5D2 launched at $2700. I specifically heard $4,000 too as he was going through the history of groundbreaking EOS releases and thought it was odd he called out that price point. As if it was an Easter egg on the R5 price



My mistake, I thought he was talking about that price in relation to an older launch, I probably misheard tho because my eyes were falling out of my head reading the specs on the screen at the time!


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## David Hull (Apr 20, 2020)

Brymills said:


> Sony is *******!


Nope, not until next month when Canon announced their answer to the PlayStation and three new TV's.


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## Sharlin (Apr 20, 2020)

Okay, I was fairly sure that 8K30 recording to h.265 would be infeasible given thermal constraints. But somehow they've managed to do that. The engineers responsible for this camera definitely deserve huge bonuses.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Apr 20, 2020)

It mentions the live view AF performance of the 1DX Mark III, which if true is right up there for subject tracking.


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## Richard Anthony (Apr 20, 2020)

mcfrlnd said:


> View attachment 189992
> 
> Just missing the price now...


Plus the release date


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## ahsanford (Apr 20, 2020)

And I think the live announcement is over now. 

No price
No availability
No confirmation of sensor res

Why so tease-y, so cagey at this relatively late hour? Are they worried about being scooped with an A7 IV or something? 

- A


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## Juangrande (Apr 20, 2020)

ckwaller said:


> This sounds almost too good to be true. The last Canon body I purchased was a 5D3 in 2012, so I'm itching for something new, especially as a mirrorless hybrid shooter.
> 
> I'm going to guess this camera comes in at a minimum of $4,500. The 5D3 and 5D4 both came in at $3,500, so an extra $1,000 isn't too unreasonable for the specs and tech they're cramming into a mirrorless body. Of course, my mind will be blown if the release the R5 at the standard $3,500 or less.
> 
> My only concern is on the video side. I haven't done any work using HEVC/H.265. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only camera in recent memory I can recall using the codec was the Samsung NX1. How does this codec compare compared to MotionJPEG of the 5D4? Will it require transcoding to ProRes or DnX or the use of proxies for efficient video editing? Can most computers handle it well?


I wish people in here would saying they think a higher price is reasonable. Why give their marketing department any ideas. ?


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## ddixon (Apr 20, 2020)

Richard Anthony said:


> Plus the release date



1. I hope it still records audio in the 4k high frame rate modes
2. I hope they realize that would probably sell twice as many if they keep it to $3500-$3999 as opposed to $4500 to $5999. They can make up the difference on R lenses...
3. I hope it has DR and low light ability at least a touch better than the 5d4
4. I hope it does have at least 40mp
5. I hope the long teasing PR campaign is not to build up anticipation so that we don't care about disappointments in some of my 1. thru 4. list...


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## padam (Apr 20, 2020)

jalps said:


> Am I crazy or does this potentially eat into some C500 sales? If you're looking for FF 4k 60fps clog 10bit 422, your only option was to go with the full $16k C500 m2 beast. This would be an option at 1/4 the price that loses some features people may be willing to part with considering the savings...


C-Log is not the same as C-Log 2, C-Log 3 or RAW, different codecs (H.265 is very demanding), different handling with built-in ND, rolling shutter, battery life, different mount, etc.
In short, they are different.


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## PureClassA (Apr 20, 2020)

This thing is a F******G MONSTER


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## tpatana (Apr 20, 2020)

Well.... so they told plenty about video capabilities, but basically nothing about still photos... strange...

Also I'm curious to know if HD-video goes beyond 120fps while DPAF. And naturally price would be nice to know.

So really they didn't tell anything we didn't know yet, just confirmed what we knew.


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## 12Broncos (Apr 20, 2020)

We're cooped up inside for a bloody month and a half. To lift our spirits by five hundred percent all Canon had to do was make an announcement on the R5. Instead we get 6-7 specs on it. An announcement would have been a game changer in and of itself. Here we sit.


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## PureClassA (Apr 20, 2020)

tpatana said:


> Well.... so they told plenty about video capabilities, but basically nothing about still photos... strange...
> 
> Also I'm curious to know if HD-video goes beyond 120fps while DPAF. And naturally price would be nice to know.
> 
> So really they didn't tell anything we didn't know yet, just confirmed what we knew.



Well this was part of what was supposed to be NAB this week. So makes sense they would hype up the video specs here. Stills to come later.


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## tpatana (Apr 20, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> It mentions the live view AF performance of the 1DX Mark III, which if true is right up there for subject tracking.



Since 1DX3 is mostly meant for PDAF and both use similar DPAF on sensor, I think it's natural the live-view AF on 1DX3 is same/similar as R5 sensor DPAF.


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## bubbles (Apr 20, 2020)

ahsanford said:


> Why so tease-y, so cagey at this relatively late hour? Are they worried about being scooped with an A7 IV or something?



String a few announcements together for more PR and keep people excited. They probably don't actually have a set release date yet either as there is no _real _reason to release right now. Try build up inventory and release when it will make the most bang.


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## David_E (Apr 20, 2020)

CanonOmar said:


> I'm putting my Sony gear up for sale and switching back to Canon inshaAllah! I sold my 5D3 and lenses last year and jumped on the Sony train because I just couldn't get what I wanted from Canon... BUT THIS IS GOLD!


Wow, talk about pissing your money away! What happens when Sony or someone else beats Canon’s R5 specs? LCD 1mm larger, e.g. Toss it all again until someone goes 2mm larger?


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## cosmopotter (Apr 20, 2020)

cosmopotter said:


> This is all spectacular of course, but I find it most interesting that the sensor resolution specs are still not included. I worked for Canon so I know better than most that practicality is a big consideration for Canon. They are likely testing different sensors and processors to see what works best. My guess is that they’re going to have an 8K sensor or an 8K DCI sensor which equals about 33 or 35 megapixels. An 8K sensor means less processing and easier to achieve all the spectacular specs. Everyone should remember that the 5 series cameras are the Swiss Army knives. It is not supposed to be the high-resolution camera, it’s supposed to be a bit of everything.


I believe the asterisk is for DCI


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## padam (Apr 20, 2020)

ckwaller said:


> This sounds almost too good to be true. The last Canon body I purchased was a 5D3 in 2012, so I'm itching for something new, especially as a mirrorless hybrid shooter.
> 
> I'm going to guess this camera comes in at a minimum of $4,500. The 5D3 and 5D4 both came in at $3,500, so an extra $1,000 isn't too unreasonable for the specs and tech they're cramming into a mirrorless body. Of course, my mind will be blown if the release the R5 at the standard $3,500 or less.
> 
> My only concern is on the video side. I haven't done any work using HEVC/H.265. Correct me if I'm wrong, but the only camera in recent memory I can recall using the codec was the Samsung NX1. How does this codec compare compared to MotionJPEG of the 5D4? Will it require transcoding to ProRes or DnX or the use of proxies for efficient video editing? Can most computers handle it well?


You can check out some 1DX III reviews, it is the same codec as in that camera, and yes, it is very demanding even at 4K, let alone 8K. (But of course it will be easier with further hardware developments)


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## RMac (Apr 20, 2020)

David_E said:


> CanonOmar said:
> 
> 
> > I'm putting my Sony gear up for sale and switching back to Canon inshaAllah! I sold my 5D3 and lenses last year and jumped on the Sony train because I just couldn't get what I wanted from Canon... BUT THIS IS GOLD!
> ...



I for one would like to thank CanonOmar for doing his part to keep major interchangable lens camera manufacturers solvent in the face of a shrinking market.


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## David_E (Apr 20, 2020)

bubbles said:


> Try build up inventory and release when it will make the most bang.


With at least five Canon factories closed in Japan, I seriously doubt if Canon are building up inventory of the R5 or that they even know when they will release the camera.


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## gatabo (Apr 20, 2020)

cosmopotter said:


> This is all spectacular of course, but I find it most interesting that the sensor resolution specs are still not included. I worked for Canon so I know better than most that practicality is a big consideration for Canon. They are likely testing different sensors and processors to see what works best. My guess is that they’re going to have an 8K sensor or an 8K DCI sensor which equals about 33 or 35 megapixels. An 8K sensor means less processing and easier to achieve all the spectacular specs. Everyone should remember that the 5 series cameras are the Swiss Army knives. It is not supposed to be the high-resolution camera, it’s supposed to be a bit of everything.


it is 8k DCI , so almost 36MP for 1.9:1 Video and 45MP for the 3:2 photo.


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## cpreston (Apr 20, 2020)

jalps said:


> Am I crazy or does this potentially eat into some C500 sales? If you're looking for FF 4k 60fps clog 10bit 422, your only option was to go with the full $16k C500 m2 beast. This would be an option at 1/4 the price that loses some features people may be willing to part with considering the savings...



For the no budget filmmaker looking at Canon cameras, I think it really takes the gloss off of the C500MKII as the camera to own. But the R5 isn't really competing in the market the C500 is targeting. The lack of XLR, timecode, dual slot recording, button controls, SDI, etc. are all things that make it unfeasible for a person who might actually be considering a C500. Or a C300.


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## docsmith (Apr 20, 2020)

For what it is worth, Lensrentals has the R5 available for pre-order at $271/week, which is significantly more than the 5DIV, Sony A7RIV, etc but less than the 1DX III. Usually, they are 5-7% of the asking price, so that would be $3,871 to $5,400. For direct comparison, the 1DX III rental price of $347/week is 5.34% of the asking price, which would put the R5 at $5,075.

Based on this, how about $4,999 initial price?


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## IcyBergs (Apr 20, 2020)

I'm glad Canon is addressing the trolls with this camera.

Hopefully they'll address the still shooters with the R6.


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## padam (Apr 20, 2020)

cosmopotter said:


> This is all spectacular of course, but I find it most interesting that the sensor resolution specs are still not included. I worked for Canon so I know better than most that practicality is a big consideration for Canon. They are likely testing different sensors and processors to see what works best. My guess is that they’re going to have an 8K sensor or an 8K DCI sensor which equals about 33 or 35 megapixels. An 8K sensor means less processing and easier to achieve all the spectacular specs. Everyone should remember that the 5 series cameras are the Swiss Army knives. It is not supposed to be the high-resolution camera, it’s supposed to be a bit of everything.


It shoots 8K DCI (8192x4320) without a crop, so it can be estimated pretty well, it should be 45 MP for stils.


----------



## PureClassA (Apr 20, 2020)

padam said:


> You can check out some 1DX III reviews, it is the same codec as in that camera, and yes, it is very demanding even at 4K, let alone 8K. (But of course it will be easier with further hardware developments)


If you’re really using this for video, then it’s worth the extra $600 for the Atomos Ninja V. Then the internal codec becomes a non issue anyway and makes post production orders of magnitude easier. Not to mention the cost of CFExpress vs. a decent SSD. Of course you have a few tecording modes that are internal only but for most folks I’m guessing they will be far more seldom used.


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## bmfotonet (Apr 20, 2020)

How many people will actually use the 8K or high bitrate 4K modes? I still shoot everything in 1080p for my youtube channel for ease of editing and uploading. I can understand for professional productions for Netflix, etc. but for not for amateurs and youtubers. Are people mostly excited to have internet bragging rights even if they will never shoot anything in those modes?


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## padam (Apr 20, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> If you’re really using this for video, then it’s worth the extra $600 for the Atomos Ninja V. Then the internal codec becomes a non issue anyway and makes post production orders of magnitude easier. Not to mention the cost of CFExpress vs. a decent SSD. Of course you have a few tecording modes that are internal only but for most folks I’m guessing they will be far more seldom used.


Yep, although it is kind of funny that finally there is 10-bit 4:2:2 internal recording but it is just not practical at all to use (for now).


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## davidhfe (Apr 20, 2020)

bmfotonet said:


> How many people will actually use the 8K or high bitrate 4K modes? I still shoot everything in 1080p for my youtube channel for ease of editing and uploading. I can understand for professional productions for Netflix, etc. but for not for amateurs and youtubers. Are people mostly excited to have internet bragging rights even if they will never shoot anything in those modes?



I do some goofy internal stuff for work on my 5D4, and I shoot it in 4K. Because I only do it occasionally the codec isn't a huge issue for me, and the quality is fantastic. First thing people say when they see the footage is "wow, it's so sharp!" Gives it a professional 'look' which can go a long way. Usually I'm projecting on huge screens (event venue stuff), and even though I deliver in 1080, the downsampled 4K looks way nicer. MJPEG gets a bad rap for valid reasons, but image quality sure isn't one of them.

If I had a daily or weekly workflow, my tune would likely change.


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## xps (Apr 20, 2020)

https://www.techradar.com/news/canon-eos-r5 writes:
"As for the price tag, we can only presume it would be competing with the 45.7MP Nikon Z7, or perhaps even the 61MP Sony Alpha A7R IV. If that's the case, be prepared to shell out something well over the $3,500 / £3,500 / AU$4,500 mark. "

I hope not more....


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## herein2020 (Apr 20, 2020)

bmfotonet said:


> How many people will actually use the 8K or high bitrate 4K modes? I still shoot everything in 1080p for my youtube channel for ease of editing and uploading. I can understand for professional productions for Netflix, etc. but for not for amateurs and youtubers. Are people mostly excited to have internet bragging rights even if they will never shoot anything in those modes?


Filming at 8K has nothing to do with delivering at 8K. I will use 8K for many occasions just like I currently use 4K for all occasions; for pan, crop, zoom, and stabilization purposes. I deliver in 1080P but always shoot in 4K. Since 8K uses so much storage I foresee shooting in 8K to be a more rare occurrence than 4K but there could definitely be situations where 8K would be useful such as when your longest lens does not zoom in close enough to the speaker, or your camera is on a tripod yet you want to add a slide, tilt, dolly in, dolly out or some combination of these to the shot for effect.



xps said:


> https://www.techradar.com/news/canon-eos-r5 writes:
> "As for the price tag, we can only presume it would be competing with the 45.7MP Nikon Z7, or perhaps even the 61MP Sony Alpha A7R IV. If that's the case, be prepared to shell out something well over the $3,500 / £3,500 / AU$4,500 mark. "
> 
> I hope not more....



Like I have been saying for months..the Panasonic S1H is priced at $4K, this has better specs than the S1H, no way this will be less than $3999.00.


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## noncho (Apr 20, 2020)

It looks like I'll wait for R6, I don't shoot video...


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## BillB (Apr 20, 2020)

ahsanford said:


> And I think the live announcement is over now.
> 
> No price
> No availability
> ...


Well, this was a video centric news event, so they centered on the video.


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## shawn (Apr 20, 2020)

I don't think this will be priced above what the 5D IV was at its release date. The specifications are great, but cell phones have been doing 4k 120fps for years now. Compared to a lowly cellphone Canon is playing catch up on specs. Plus, look at the camera body, it is very similar to the R. Doubling the price on it seems like wishful thinking without going to a fully new camera body. And of course this isn't a 1 series body so it won't be anywhere near that price. Finally, there is a mirrorless discount to consider. Canon is already leveraging the reduced costs of mirrorless bodies with the R and RP, I expect that to continue. All this tells me the price will be right around $3,000.


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## gmon750 (Apr 20, 2020)

CanonOmar said:


> I'm putting my Sony gear up for sale and switching back to Canon inshaAllah! I sold my 5D3 and lenses last year and jumped on the Sony train because I just couldn't get what I wanted from Canon... BUT THIS IS GOLD!



I still use my 5DM3 professionally and refused to jump ship. I wouldn't switch to Sony if you paid me. Canon was the sleeping tiger and when I saw the amazing first-class RF lenses it was putting out, I knew (ok, really hoping) they were going to come out with a stellar pro-level RF body. They did not disappoint.

If the real-world performance matches what Canon is advertising, I may finally make the switch to the R5. I'm hoping for decent battery life.


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## Sharlin (Apr 20, 2020)

gatabo said:


> it is 8k DCI , so almost 36MP for 1.9:1 Video and 45MP for the 3:2 photo.



Well, _unless_ the sensor native aspect ratio is wider than 3:2. But in that case either you'd need a sensor physically larger than FF (with the corners, outside the FF image circle, being cropped out whether in movie or stills mode) or the stills mode would have a crop which really is not going to happen given that this is marketed as a FF camera.


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## PureClassA (Apr 20, 2020)

padam said:


> Yep, although it is kind of funny that finally there is 10-bit 4:2:2 internal recording but it is just not practical at all to use (for now).


The more I've thought about it over time the more I just figure Canon would rather offer the best quality internal codec possible you can also use to grab stills from. It's not like Canon is ever going to pay Apple their fee to use ProRes internally. I dont think any such camera does. And if someone is bothering to shoot in a LOG gamma, then Canon also assumes this person is an experienced user, who knows what they are doing, and get the fact you're going to have to do some re-encoding in post (maybe) or you're probably using a Ninja or some other external ProRes and Log capable recorder. I think otherwise, the more casual user will just use the simple IPB mode and be perfectly happy with it. (Again, speaking only for HD and 4K modes here as nothing else besides Canon's software can even properly read its 8K yet)


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## michi (Apr 20, 2020)

I wonder how much money it would save if they split the line. One camera without video capability and one with. With all the Canon DSLR’s I have owned, I have never once taken a video. I would love to save some money and buy a R5 without the video capabilities. I guess that will never happen. R&D probably costs the bulk, and they would use me to pay for that even though I don’t use it. Still, would be nice.


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## Foa2020 (Apr 20, 2020)

tiltshift said:


> I just hope that because of how awesome this is that they don't price this at like $6k... I know its a 5 series "replacement" or whatever so it should be in the $3500 range but.....


It very well could be 6k$: C200 + R5 gives you +|-everything a C300 iii can do. I understand I am exaggerating a bit but look at the numbers: 12,5k$ (Incl viewfinder)-6,5k$=...


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## justaCanonuser (Apr 20, 2020)

My mind is already blown away by the last spec confirmations, nothing of it is left anymore. Looks like Canon gives all those Sony trolls on DPReview a rough ride now. Guess they now have to pest Nikon threads there...


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## rmkunihiro (Apr 20, 2020)

I still would like to know the cost on this new Canon R5!!!!!!


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## shawn (Apr 20, 2020)

herein2020 said:


> Like I have been saying for months..the Panasonic S1H is priced at $4K, this has better specs than the S1H, no way this will be less than $3999.00.


I think it will be less than that. As much as people cry about Canon's pricing they're almost always a bargain if we make honest comparisons to their competitors.
Olympus charges out the *** for 4/3 sensors and lenses, and Canon still beats them on price with their full frame offerings. Canon will undercut these loser companies as always. That is why Canon is #1. They have been delivering the best gear for less money and the majority of people are able to figure that out for themselves.


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## Viriato (Apr 20, 2020)

Now we just need to know what is bigger
The price
Or the noise when lifting shadows...

Written by a Canon lover ( who also uses Nikon) that lives with a EOS R


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## gatabo (Apr 20, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> The more I've thought about it over time the more I just figure Canon would rather offer the best quality internal codec possible you can also use to grab stills from. It's not like Canon is ever going to pay Apple their fee to use ProRes internally. I dont think any such camera does. And if someone is bothering to shoot in a LOG gamma, then Canon also assumes this person is an experienced user, who knows what they are doing, and get the fact you're going to have to do some re-encoding in post (maybe) or you're probably using a Ninja or some other external ProRes and Log capable recorder. I think otherwise, the more casual user will just use the simple IPB mode and be perfectly happy with it. (Again, speaking only for HD and 4K modes here as nothing else besides Canon's software can even properly read its 8K yet)


just use mpv https://mpv.io/ and you can already play 8k h265 video for free (free as freedom as it is open source) your computer needs to be powerful enough though, also vlc https://www.videolan.org/vlc/releases/3.0.0.html (another open source sw) can play 8k HDR h265 , so no problem at all to read the "standard" h265 encoded videos.


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## Ozarker (Apr 20, 2020)

shawn said:


> I don't think this will be priced above what the 5D IV was at its release date. The specifications are great, but cell phones have been doing 4k 120fps for years now. Compared to a lowly cellphone Canon is playing catch up on specs. Plus, look at the camera body, it is very similar to the R. Doubling the price on it seems like wishful thinking without going to a fully new camera body. And of course this isn't a 1 series body so it won't be anywhere near that price. Finally, there is a mirrorless discount to consider. Canon is already leveraging the reduced costs of mirrorless bodies with the R and RP, I expect that to continue. All this tells me the price will be right around $3,000.


Call me when cell phones are doing it with a full frame sensor.


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## Mark3794 (Apr 20, 2020)

justaCanonuser said:


> My mind is already blown away by the last spec confirmations, nothing of it is left anymore. Looks like Canon gives all those Sony trolls on DPReview a rough ride now. Guess they now have to pest Nikon threads there...


Don't worry they are still hating on Canon


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## AEWest (Apr 20, 2020)

tpatana said:


> Well.... so they told plenty about video capabilities, but basically nothing about still photos... strange...
> 
> Also I'm curious to know if HD-video goes beyond 120fps while DPAF. And naturally price would be nice to know.
> 
> So really they didn't tell anything we didn't know yet, just confirmed what we knew.


Well, this announcement was made specifically for the cinema crowd, not stills crowd so they are highlighting video capability only today.


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## PureClassA (Apr 20, 2020)

herein2020 said:


> Like I have been saying for months..the Panasonic S1H is priced at $4K, this has better specs than the S1H, no way this will be less than $3999.00.


It's not a simple question of "better" Regardless of video, the R5 will outsell the Panny by orders of magnitude because of the massive Canon user base. This is still built to be a 5 series body, which means wedding professionals and portrait artists, wildelifers, landscapers, etc.... The Panny S1H has a single, much smaller user base. Video.

In other words, Canon is pricing this machine to fit into a WELL established price range like all the other 5 bodies in the last 10 years. Because they will sell boat loads more, they can amortize those fixed costs of R&D over a much much much larger sales volume compared to the S1H. Canon is out for blood folks.

They just made THE camera that I can easily argue will greatly satisfy both stills people AND video people. Why price it $4500-5000 and cut your sales by more than the increase in price would afford? They won't. They are looking to take out Sony and Nikon and end whatever chance Panasonic still had left. The money is in the GLASS. And Canon wants as many folks investing in the RF mount bodies in order to push the high margin lenses


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## RiceCanon (Apr 20, 2020)

Sure hope the dynamic range and low light performance of the new sensor are as impressive as the other announced specs.


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## KenLLL (Apr 20, 2020)

Whoa. Given the specs, no way this will be under $4000. $5000 would even be a steal. I have a feeling everyone who is hoping this will be in the $3,500 range will be massively disappointed and then throw Canon hating tantrums saying it's too expensive and Canon sucks. People are already shitting on 8k saying it's unnecessary. IF, and only if, this is under $4000, Canon will seriously rock the industry like a 9.0 earthquake! If i had to guess, this will be $4,500-$5,000. Just a guess. I hope I'm wrong.


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## joestopper (Apr 20, 2020)

VICYASA said:


> $4,999 USD... if we are lucky!



After this recent interview where Canon said that the R5 is indeed the mirrorless equivalent of the 5D series, I believe it will be priced like that i.e. MSRP of 5DIV market intro plus 200-400 adjustment.


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## Dragon (Apr 20, 2020)

If the IBIS works cooperatively with IS in EF lenses, then the coming M cameras with IBIS should do the same. Very nice. I take an R5 and an M5 II/M1 please.


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## zonoskar (Apr 20, 2020)

DrToast said:


> Found it on DPReview: *When in 8K RAW, 8K/4K DCI modes.


If true, that would mean a 8192 pixel wide sensor. So 45 Mpix?


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## Dragon (Apr 20, 2020)

zonoskar said:


> If true, that would mean a 8192 pixel wide sensor. So 45 Mpix?


The 5 series has been DCI capable for quite a while now so not likely that they would have stepped back from that, particularly at 8k.


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## Stone (Apr 20, 2020)

I'd be willing to bet this will be a $6K camera. 8K video? the people capable of viewing it are very rare although it admittedly gives a ton of flexibility in post. I've delivered photos to hundreds of clients and printed as large as they've ever requested with my 5DIII & my Fuji X-T2. My days of a $20K kit when you add great glass and strobes is over. Canon will NOT price this body competitively, it's just not the way they do things. Love the specs, but would never spend that kind of money again on a body that will be equaled or bested by competitors in 2 years or less. I'll just live vicariously through those that have the disposable income for this camera.


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## padam (Apr 20, 2020)

michi said:


> I wonder how much money it would save if they split the line. One camera without video capability and one with. With all the Canon DSLR’s I have owned, I have never once taken a video. I would love to save some money and buy a R5 without the video capabilities. I guess that will never happen. R&D probably costs the bulk, and they would use me to pay for that even though I don’t use it. Still, would be nice.


It makes no sense at all, only the Leica M cameras ignore that, even their SL2 is focused heavily on video features, every other manufacturer will take it into consideration.
Ever since the 1DC came out 7 years ago, it was clear that their vision was to combine stills and video and they are sticking to this formula wholeheartedly (alongside other manufacturers of course)

In fact, they need every feature they can embed to convince people to upgrade (And to make it relevant for at least its 4 year product life cycle), since cameras has gotten better and better it is harder to convince people to upgrade (for instance, the improvement in high ISO hasn't seen a huge increase in the last years).


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## GoldWing (Apr 20, 2020)

If this camera is water sealed.... It could prompt those who were 1DXIII bound to take a look. Looking at DR, shadow recovery, focus speed, ISO noise.... This could be enough to get people to consider investing in new RF Glass.


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## reefroamer (Apr 20, 2020)

I would not be surprised to see the R5 launched at $2,999 as long as Canon can do it profitably. The R5 shows Canon's playbook has changed. Sure, they could launch at $4,999 and provide a nice pricing umbrella for competitors As they have done in the past. At $2,999, Canon could just suck all the oxygen out of the market, drive big volumes to reduce cost, and exponentially drive up highly profitable RF lens sales. I think the Canon elephant is learning to dance. Look out.


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## GoldWing (Apr 20, 2020)

michi said:


> I wonder how much money it would save if they split the line. One camera without video capability and one with. With all the Canon DSLR’s I have owned, I have never once taken a video. I would love to save some money and buy a R5 without the video capabilities. I guess that will never happen. R&D probably costs the bulk, and they would use me to pay for that even though I don’t use it. Still, would be nice.


Devoting a camera to still photography.... Dream on... They only build such a thing in Heaven


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## David_E (Apr 20, 2020)

docsmith said:


> ..._the 1DX III rental price of $347/week is 5.34% of the asking price, which would put the R5 at $5,075.
> 
> Based on this, how about $4,999 initial price?_


Was that rhetorical, or are you asking my permission? If the latter, OK, set the price wherever you want. But don’t be surprised if Canon’s price differs from yours.


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## definedphotography (Apr 20, 2020)

Dragon said:


> If the IBIS works cooperatively with IS in EF lenses, then the coming M cameras with IBIS should do the same. Very nice. I take an R5 and an M5 II/M1 please.



That would be fantastic. I can't see it happening though. I think with EF glass, you'll need to choose either IBIS or IS. RF glass will do a combo.
Canon please prove me wrong!


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## FramerMCB (Apr 20, 2020)

Sharlin said:


> Okay, I was fairly sure that 8K30 recording to h.265 would be infeasible given thermal constraints. But somehow they've managed to do that. The engineers responsible for this camera definitely deserve huge bonuses.


They already received them: they sold all their Sony stock right before the R5 announcement...


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## goldenhusky (Apr 20, 2020)

Feels like a dream. It is amazing to see finally the giant wake up. *"Canon revolutionized the video industry with the introduction of the EOS 5D Mark II which provided solutions for what was previously seen as improbable"* That is from Canon's page. Canon revolutionized the DSLR world with 5D2 and went on a hibernation for almost a decade. Hope they do not hibernate for another decade now


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## jeanluc (Apr 20, 2020)

I see lots of wild price speculation...4,5 even 6K USD.

Fact is, especially with what's going on in the world, very few people can or will pay crazy dollars for this camera and it's attendant pricey RF glass anytime soon. Some can, some will, but most can't or won't.

Canon, like many businesses now, is in the hurt bag. They will want to sell these things and the RF lenses that are sitting around right now in as great as numbers as fast as they can. It will not make them any money at all sitting in warehouses.

So I think it will priced close to 5D level, or else all the wedding, graduation and other rank and file pros out there who actually make a living with these things will simply not be able to buy into the RF system any time soon.

Having said that, I am so glad to see they are making the camera so many of us have been waiting for. 

As long as they keep it priced competitively and in line with what most users will pay, they will have a home run on their hands for sure.


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## Del Paso (Apr 20, 2020)

I suppose, in the future, we'll have to miss all these funny "Canon's cripple hammer" features on Youtube.
Let's shed crocodile tears for all the unemployed trolls, I'll regret them...
What if we all bought some Sonies to save the company from bankrupcy ?


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## goldenhusky (Apr 20, 2020)

I hope the AA filter is absent or has very little impact on sharpness.


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## MadisonMike (Apr 20, 2020)

Del Paso said:


> I suppose, in the future, we'll have to miss all these funny "Canon's cripple hammer" features on Youtube.
> Let's shed crocodile tears for all the unemployed trolls, I'll regret them...
> What if we all bought some Sonies to save the company from bankrupcy ?


I will miss the cripple hammer videos. They were funny as well as very accurate.


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## jalps (Apr 20, 2020)

cpreston said:


> For the no budget filmmaker looking at Canon cameras, I think it really takes the gloss off of the C500MKII as the camera to own. But the R5 isn't really competing in the market the C500 is targeting. The lack of XLR, timecode, dual slot recording, button controls, SDI, etc. are all things that make it unfeasible for a person who might actually be considering a C500. Or a C300.



That's exactly the crowd I was thinking about when making the comment. For example, Youtuber Matti Haapoja was promoting just 2 months ago that he took out a huge loan to get his C500, and I have to think that there are many other people out there watching his videos with similar aspirations--and without the professional requirements--that would be happy to "settle" for an R5.


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## goldenhusky (Apr 20, 2020)

*Canon Says IBIS will work with EF lenses as well.*
Canon’s first camera to incorporate 5-axis IBIS (In-Body Image Stabilization), the EOS R5 will not only enhance the ability to shoot still images at slower shutter speeds but it will also help reduce camera shake when shooting movies. Additionally, *the EOS R5’s IBIS will work in combination with Optical Image Stabilization found in many Canon RF and EF lenses. *


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## [email protected] (Apr 20, 2020)

peters said:


> sick!


not really like the 5d DLSR a game changer in the Mirrorless world - hope Nikon and Sony will do comparable models.


----------



## Adventure Kid (Apr 20, 2020)

CanonOmar said:


> I'm putting my Sony gear up for sale and switching back to Canon inshaAllah! I sold my 5D3 and lenses last year and jumped on the Sony train because I just couldn't get what I wanted from Canon... BUT THIS IS GOLD!



ya, you should have waited. lesson learned.


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## goldenhusky (Apr 20, 2020)

Dragon said:


> If the IBIS works cooperatively with IS in EF lenses, then the coming M cameras with IBIS should do the same. Very nice. I take an R5 and an M5 II/M1 please.



Per Canon IBIS will work with EF lenses that has Is as well.


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## Gti5notrkt (Apr 20, 2020)

My money is on $3,999


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## NorskHest (Apr 20, 2020)

definedphotography said:


> That would be fantastic. I can't see it happening though. I think with EF glass, you'll need to choose either IBIS or IS. RF glass will do a combo.
> Canon please prove me wrong!


It is stated to work on both mounts


----------



## Stone (Apr 20, 2020)

jeanluc said:


> I see lots of wild price speculation...4,5 even 6K USD.
> 
> Fact is, especially with what's going on in the world, very few people can or will pay crazy dollars for this camera and it's attendant pricey RF glass anytime soon. Some can, some will, but most can't or won't.
> 
> ...



I'm one of the people that quoted 6K for this body and Canon has given me no reason to think otherwise. Look at the price of RF glass, it's in no way priced competitively. This wouldn't be the first time Canon priced itself out of the market and I don't believe this will be any different. I would love to be wrong but considering the very capable bodies and glass out there, I've already written off this body. If anything I'll pick one up in 2 years once it's average tech, my customers and most everyone's customers would not be able to tell the difference between the images from a 5DII and this new super duper body once they get their prints. My best, highest paying clients can't tell the difference between my 5DIII & Fuji files once I deliver the prints. I'll wait to pick one up slightly used at 60% of MSRP or less if I decide to buy this at all....


----------



## joestopper (Apr 20, 2020)

michi said:


> I wonder how much money it would save if they split the line. One camera without video capability and one with. With all the Canon DSLR’s I have owned, I have never once taken a video. I would love to save some money and buy a R5 without the video capabilities. I guess that will never happen. R&D probably costs the bulk, and they would use me to pay for that even though I don’t use it. Still, would be nice.



They will do it: The rumored high-res R5 (R5S or whatever it will be called). That will be all about portrait/landscape etc photography. FPS will be 10 or less and certainly no 8k video without crop.


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## padam (Apr 20, 2020)

Stone said:


> I'm one of the people that quoted 6K for this body and Canon has given me no reason to think otherwise. Look at the price of RF glass, it's in no way priced competitively. This wouldn't be the first time Canon priced itself out of the market and I don't believe this will be any different. I would love to be wrong but considering the very capable bodies and glass out there, I've already written off this body. If anything I'll pick one up in 2 years once it's average tech, my customers and most everyone's customers would not be able to tell the difference between the images from a 5DII and this new super duper body once they get their prints. My best, highest paying clients can't tell the difference between my 5DIII & Fuji files once I deliver the prints. I'll wait to pick one up slightly used at 60% of MSRP or less if I decide to buy this at all....


Could you tell why an RF 85mm f/1.2 (with BR element) should be priced the same as an EF 85mm f/1.4? Or how much the EF 24-70 2.8 L II, a fairly popular lens cost on its release? Yep, almost the same as today's far superior RF equivalent with IS added in as well.
Cheaper glass is coming, current ones will gradually drop in as time goes as development costs get absorbed, stocks fill up, etc. etc.


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## TAF (Apr 20, 2020)

RiceCanon said:


> Sure hope the dynamic range and low light performance of the new sensor are as impressive as the other announced specs.



Perhaps that is what the R6 will bring to the table? The R5 is 45mp and a video monster, the R6 will be say ~30mp with useable ISO to 400K or higher?

Is the announcement in May?


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## AccipiterQ (Apr 20, 2020)

Honestly, what's the Canon camera for those of us that want to take high-quality photos, but that don't want 40MP+ files? Or rather, what WILL it be in the mirrorless line? It seems like this is more of a replacement for the 5DSr, as opposed to a 5DV. All these specs are aimed at people who shoot video, but a DSLR is never going to be able to match their cinema-line of cameras, and with the specs on the r5 it's going to probably not be THAT much cheaper than the lower end cinema products Canon offers. I know people are psyched that shoot video, but why wouldn't you just buy a video camera if that's what you need? I'm genuinely curious. For my part...I just want something that's mirrorless, between ~25 and ~35 MP and is a step up in quality from the original R. Basically a 5DV in mirrorless format. I don't think that's asking much, the use-case for this r5 is going to be pretty close to that of the 5DSr as near as I can tell, as opposed to an every-day unit like the 5DIV or 1DXiii. I can't imagine the dynamic range or low-light performance on the r5 is going to be able to match the 1DXiii or the 5DIV (or even get close)....


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## [pod] (Apr 20, 2020)

Alright, Canon is showing cherry on the top of the cake, but what taste of the whole cake will be? It is too good to be true. Some serious limitations definitely will be. But still on paper this cake starts looking sweet, very sweet.


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## padam (Apr 20, 2020)

TAF said:


> Perhaps that is what the R6 will bring to the table? The R5 is 45mp and a video monster, the R6 will be say ~30mp with useable ISO to 400K or higher?
> 
> Is the announcement in May?


According to the leaked specs, it will probably have the 20MP sensor and video features from the 1DX III (likely abandoning the RAW option), which has excellent high ISO performance, but don't expect it to be amazing above 25600.


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## padam (Apr 20, 2020)

AccipiterQ said:


> Honestly, what's the Canon camera for those of us that want to take high-quality photos, but that don't want 40MP+ files? Or rather, what WILL it be in the mirrorless line? It seems like this is more of a replacement for the 5DSr, as opposed to a 5DV. All these specs are aimed at people who shoot video, but a DSLR is never going to be able to match their cinema-line of cameras, and with the specs on the r5 it's going to probably not be THAT much cheaper than the lower end cinema products Canon offers. I know people are psyched that shoot video, but why wouldn't you just buy a video camera if that's what you need? I'm genuinely curious. For my part...I just want something that's mirrorless, between ~25 and ~35 MP and is a step up in quality from the original R. Basically a 5DV in mirrorless format. I don't think that's asking much, the use-case for this r5 is going to be pretty close to that of the 5DSr as near as I can tell, as opposed to an every-day unit like the 5DIV or 1DXiii. I can't imagine the dynamic range or low-light performance on the r5 is going to be able to match the 1DXiii or the 5DIV (or even get close)....


The 42MP A7RII has been around since 2013 and even gone up to 61MP since then (And PCs have gotten much faster since then to cope with the files), so 45MP is pretty normal for a brand new camera in 2020 (and one made for resolution can go way beyond that) or there is the 20MP R6 where you can complain that the megapixel count is too low - even though the actual difference is not that significant as it will use a newer anti-aliasing filter.
There used to be an option to shoot smaller resolution RAW in previous Canon cameras, but now there is essentially no benefit, so either shoot compressed raw to save file size or use the in-camera crop mode.
Same with the ISO, the 20MP one will be better, but once the 45MP one is downscaled, there is not that much difference.


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## picperfect (Apr 20, 2020)

Not interested in R5 nor in R6 (as rumored). Don't need video at all, much less 8k and not willing to pay for it. And 20 MP not enough for me in 2020, no matter what.


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## Stone (Apr 20, 2020)

padam said:


> Could you tell why an RF 85mm f/1.2 (with BR element) should be priced the same as an EF 85mm f/1.4? Or how much the EF 24-70 2.8 L II, a fairly popular lens cost on its release? Yep, almost the same as today's far superior RF equivalent with IS added in as well.
> Cheaper glass is coming, current ones will gradually drop in as time goes as development costs get absorbed, stocks fill up, etc. etc.



Honestly, I guess this is kind of my point, I've paid an average of ~$1600 - $1700 a pop for my admittedly great L glass. The RF glass is no cheaper so I'm just doing the math. I move to the RF mount and now my camera is dangling off my lenses so new lenses for balance = more money. I don't regret my purchases, my photography put 2 daughters through college but at this point and looking at what I've delivered, I could have done the same jobs for thousands less.

Since this topic is about the new Canon body: I believe people should spend their money however they wish, but cameras are now nothing more than computers with color science and the computer market changes once every 2 years or so. I just don't see them as a good investment anymore. Kudos to anyone who picks up this camera when it drops. I just can't justify spending the kind of money this body will demand anymore, especially when it will sell at a significant discount in just a few short years. Regardless of these fantastic specs If I decide to buy one, I'll be able to buy this body for ~$2k or less in a few short years, I'll send it to CPS and they'll make it shoot like new. I want as many ppl to buy them as possible, it makes for a fantastic used market.


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## AEWest (Apr 20, 2020)

Dragon said:


> If the IBIS works cooperatively with IS in EF lenses, then the coming M cameras with IBIS should do the same. Very nice. I take an R5 and an M5 II/M1 please.


I'm not sure if IBIS will work with RF IS lenses only or include EF IS lenses. I haven't seen any confirmation either way. 

R5 may disable one of the two systems if EF IS lenses are used. This could be for technical reasons or marketing reasons - i.e. they want you to upgrade to RF lenses to get the full Monty i.e. cripple hammer.


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## preppyak (Apr 20, 2020)

michi said:


> I wonder how much money it would save if they split the line. One camera without video capability and one with.


It'd actually cost more. Nikon did it with the dF, it flopped, and they never released another one. The sales you lose by splitting lines, the resale value you hurt by dropping video....all when the actual cost of video is largely software side. You just end up with a way better photo camera when video forces hardware upgrades.



reefroamer said:


> I would not be surprised to see the R5 launched at $2,999 as long as Canon can do it profitably. The R5 shows Canon's playbook has changed. Sure, they could launch at $4,999 and provide a nice pricing umbrella for competitors As they have done in the past. At $2,999, Canon could just suck all the oxygen out of the market, drive big volumes to reduce cost, and exponentially drive up highly profitable RF lens sales. I think the Canon elephant is learning to dance. Look out.


Itd be smart if they did $2999 or $3499....but the only cameras I know that do 8k are in the $5k+ range. The ZCam's is $5995. Most of the market is in the $20k range. I'll be a little stunned if it comes in at normal 5D line prices based off the specs


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## AEWest (Apr 20, 2020)

GoldWing said:


> Devoting a camera to still photography.... Dream on... They only build such a thing in Heaven


I agree. It would be a tough sell for a $3K camera not to have some sort of real video functionality when even smartphones have 4K video. That would almost be as bad as an $8K monochrome only camera!


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## padam (Apr 20, 2020)

Stone said:


> Since this topic is about the new Canon body: I believe people should spend their money however they wish, but cameras are now nothing more than computers with color science and the computer market changes once every 2 years or so. I just don't see them as a good investment anymore. Kudos to anyone who picks up this camera when it drops. I just can't justify spending the kind of money this body will demand anymore, especially when it will sell at a significant discount in just a few short years. Regardless of these fantastic specs If I decide to buy one, I'll be able to buy this body for ~$2k or less in a few short years, I'll send it to CPS and they'll make it shoot like new. I want as many ppl to buy them as possible, it makes for a fantastic used market.


Since when cameras were ever good investments?  (or even lenses, they are just smarter purchases don't depreciate as heavily, but they still loose value over time) That was my point, there is literally no difference at all in depreciation, of course if someone intends to switch systems or mounts in one go, that will cost more than just doing it gradually or buying/selling at the right time, etc.
For the people that can utilise the 8K or other features, buying the camera in its release and creating stuff with it is actually more beneficial than to wait out and suffer less depreciation.


AEWest said:


> I'm not sure if IBIS will work with RF IS lenses only or include EF IS lenses. I haven't seen any confirmation either way.
> 
> R5 may disable one of the two systems if EF IS lenses are used. This could be for technical reasons or marketing reasons - i.e. they want you to upgrade to RF lenses to get the full Monty i.e. cripple hammer.


It says loud and clear: *the IBIS works in tandem with all Canon EF or EF-S lens with IS* (only in the APS-C crop mode, no FF option either for stills or video), the only question is aftermarket lenses, it may or may not work with those, maybe they will work in tandem after a firmware update, etc.

I guess we could see an EF-mount camera with IBIS some time in the future as well.


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## picperfect (Apr 20, 2020)

preppyak said:


> Nikon did it with the dF, it flopped, and they never released another one.



Nikon Df flopped because it did not live up at all to its wonderful teaser campaign. It was a Frankenstein camera with a totally botched user interface, low rez, re-used sensor at a way too high price. It did NOT fail because of lacking video recording.


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## bergstrom (Apr 20, 2020)

its one thing to buy the r5 , if you can even afford it, but the next cost is to buy a new desktop that can handle 8k and thats another $2000 +


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## GoldWing (Apr 20, 2020)

AEWest said:


> I agree. It would be a tough sell for a $3K camera not to have some sort of real video functionality when even smartphones have 4K video. That would almost be as bad as an $8K monochrome only camera!


I guess me and those I work with are the only slobs willing to pay for cameras devoted to sill photography that are sealed for sports. $10K would be a small price to pay if it was sealed, had great DR and 45MP with low noise at 10 to 14fps with big white options. 16bit color wod be nice.... butnI don't want to get piggy. OH! You can take every useless bit of video out of it. I'll pay more for less


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## PureClassA (Apr 20, 2020)

Stone said:


> I'd be willing to bet this will be a $6K camera. 8K video? the people capable of viewing it are very rare although it admittedly gives a ton of flexibility in post. I've delivered photos to hundreds of clients and printed as large as they've ever requested with my 5DIII & my Fuji X-T2. My days of a $20K kit when you add great glass and strobes is over. Canon will NOT price this body competitively, it's just not the way they do things. Love the specs, but would never spend that kind of money again on a body that will be equaled or bested by competitors in 2 years or less. I'll just live vicariously through those that have the disposable income for this camera.


How much you betting? I’ll take a piece of that action


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## PureClassA (Apr 20, 2020)

joestopper said:


> After this recent interview where Canon said that the R5 is indeed the mirrorless equivalent of the 5D series, I believe it will be priced like that i.e. MSRP of 5DIV market intro plus 200-400 adjustment.


Bingo.


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## jeanluc (Apr 20, 2020)

Stone said:


> I'm one of the people that quoted 6K for this body and Canon has given me no reason to think otherwise. Look at the price of RF glass, it's in no way priced competitively. This wouldn't be the first time Canon priced itself out of the market and I don't believe this will be any different. I would love to be wrong but considering the very capable bodies and glass out there, I've already written off this body. If anything I'll pick one up in 2 years once it's average tech, my customers and most everyone's customers would not be able to tell the difference between the images from a 5DII and this new super duper body once they get their prints. My best, highest paying clients can't tell the difference between my 5DIII & Fuji files once I deliver the prints. I'll wait to pick one up slightly used at 60% of MSRP or less if I decide to buy this at all....


You could very well be correct. The RF glass is at a premium. I just hope they understand they not only have to make this stuff, they have to sell.

Most modern gear has been “good enough” for a while, certainly the R and 5d4 anyway. I want one of these for sure, but price will matter when I pick one up.

With Covid ruining at least 3 trips so far this year, I am in no hurry at all.


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## AEWest (Apr 20, 2020)

picperfect said:


> Nikon Df flopped because it did not live up at all to its wonderful teaser campaign. It was a Frankenstein camera with a totally botched user interface, low rez, re-used sensor at a way too high price. It did NOT fail because of lacking video recording.


Let me ask you, if you were Canon president would you authorise production of a stills only camera in a rapidly shrinking market? To me, I would want to reduce the number of models offered and make them as broadly accessible as possible to maintain margin and take market share from competitors.


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## PureClassA (Apr 20, 2020)

bergstrom said:


> its one thing to buy the r5 , if you can even afford it, but the next cost is to buy a new desktop that can handle 8k and thats another $2000 +


I dont see the 8K part of this getting wide use. And I dont think Canon much cares. It’s showing people “Look at what we can do... Mic Drop”. And being the first kid on the block to say “We did it. Whadda you got??”
Where it helps is that it clearly pushed the 4K capabilities way up the food chain to give what a lot of video people wanted. A full frame 4K readout with active DPAF all the way up to 120fps. Holy crap. 
This camera was made to shut everyone up and remind them that when Canon wants to do something, they can blow a hole in the world to get your attention.


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## PureClassA (Apr 20, 2020)

GoldWing said:


> If this camera is water sealed.... It could prompt those who were 1DXIII bound to take a look. Looking at DR, shadow recovery, focus speed, ISO noise.... This could be enough to get people to consider investing in new RF Glass.


It will have sealing comparable to previous 5 bodies, which I always found comparable to the 1DX, even if not quite as rugged.


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## PureClassA (Apr 20, 2020)

padam said:


> Could you tell why an RF 85mm f/1.2 (with BR element) should be priced the same as an EF 85mm f/1.4?



It worked out that way, i think, because you get the very handy Lens IS in the 1.4. Have one. Love it. I dont think it was so much about EF vs RF. Just a take-your-pick thing. You can either buy a bigger aperture or Image Stabilization. I went for the IS.


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## sfericean (Apr 20, 2020)




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## tpatana (Apr 20, 2020)

picperfect said:


> Nikon Df flopped because it did not live up at all to its wonderful teaser campaign. It was a Frankenstein camera with a totally botched user interface, low rez, re-used sensor at a way too high price. It did NOT fail because of lacking video recording.



They could do SW lock/unlock for the versions. Say R5 is $500 cheaper versions but they SW locked the video features, R5C has the full video suite. And you could buy the upgrade later to go from R5 to R5C.

Of course they'd be worried about hack FW to enable video, but there's ways to make that difficult enough.


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## unfocused (Apr 20, 2020)

Can we PLEASE stop with the stupid "Canon beats Sony" memes. They add absolutely nothing to the discussion. It's fanboy-ism at its most childish and only makes you look silly.


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## Stone (Apr 20, 2020)

jeanluc said:


> You could very well be correct. The RF glass is at a premium. I just hope they understand they not only have to make this stuff, they have to sell.
> 
> Most modern gear has been “good enough” for a while, certainly the R and 5d4 anyway. I want one of these for sure, but price will matter when I pick one up.
> 
> With Covid ruining at least 3 trips so far this year, I am in no hurry at all.



I agree, Canon is for the most part asking us to buy into a completely new system as they make their transition to mirrorless. Do they deserve their money? Sure they make excellent glass and their sensor tech can compete with the other major players at this point. I can afford this body, but the prints I deliver to my customers generally 16x24 and on the rare occasion 20x30 would be no different from the prints from my "ancient" gear. Experience and decades of shooting lets me know this for sure. I'd love a super high resolution body and a super ultra 4K monitor so I could see someone getting stung by a bee 4 blocks away but it won't sell anymore than my 22 MP 5DIII or my 24MP Fuji. I guess my old age is making me post from a point of practicality these days, I just don't get excited by the latest & greatest. It'll all be in the discount bin before you reach the end of shutter life...


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## koketso (Apr 20, 2020)

RMac said:


> Any reason to get a 1DXiii now other than form factor and preference for OVF?
> I'm guessing this is going to be in a similar price range...


Battery life and wireless capabilities.


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## usern4cr (Apr 20, 2020)

I think the release price will be between $2,999 and $3,499! The reason is that they are behind Sony in FF market share and need to come out with a body & price so good that they create a groundswell of people who will upgrade, jump ship, or buy into FF for the first time so that they can have a good chance to take over the FF lead from Sony (who is way ahead).

People like me, who upgrade from MFT to FF and jump into Canon gear instead of Sony - I'm not just going to pay $3250 (or whatever) for their body, I'm going to pay that *plus $2300* for their 15-35 f2.8 *plus $2700* for their 70-200 f2.8 on day 1 of my purchase. - That's $8,250! Then, not too long after that I might buy another lens like $2300 for their 24-70 f2.8 and within a year another $3500(or whatever) for their new R? 85MP body so I have a 2nd body. Now I'm up to $14,000! And they'll still be tempting me to buy stuff like their 85mm f1.2 DS or a 180mm f2.8 macro lens or maybe a 200-500 f6 surprisingly compact & lighter zoom than anyone thought possible!

For me to spend all this money, I first have to *buy a Canon body* to make the commitment! The same for everyone else. They have to get people to buy their bodies to get into their system to sell all their spectacular RF lenses!


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## unfocused (Apr 20, 2020)

Stone said:


> I agree, Canon is for the most part asking us to buy into a completely new system as they make their transition to mirrorless. Do they deserve their money? Sure they make excellent glass and their sensor tech can compete with the other major players at this point. I can afford this body, but the prints I deliver to my customers generally 16x24 and on the rare occasion 20x30 would be no different from the prints from my "ancient" gear. Experience and decades of shooting lets me know this for sure. I'd love a super high resolution body and a super ultra 4K monitor so I could see someone getting stung by a bee 4 blocks away but it won't sell anymore than my 22 MP 5DIII or my 24MP Fuji. I guess my old age is making me post from a point of practicality these days, I just don't get excited by the latest & greatest. It'll all be in the discount bin before you reach the end of shutter life...


Of course from a business standpoint, you are correct. Canon and all the other camera manufacturers aren't really focused on working professionals anymore. The money is in the enthusiast market and while today's cameras are excellent tools for professionals, they could not afford to make and sell these cameras if only professionals bought them.


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## picperfect (Apr 20, 2020)

AEWest said:


> Let me ask you, if you were Canon president would you authorise production of a stills only camera in a rapidly shrinking market? To me, I would want to reduce the number of models offered and make them as broadly accessible as possible to maintain margin and take market share from competitors.



yes I would. And I would radically reduce the number of different Rebels and DSLRs. 

I bet a "100% pure stills" EOS R model with 35-40MP, 8fps, excellent AF, state of the art EVF, great DR & High ISO, IBIS, dual SD UHS-II slots, only internal video feed for EVF, priced at 1999 would sell extremely well.


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## unfocused (Apr 20, 2020)

RMac said:


> Any reason to get a 1DXiii now other than form factor and preference for OVF?
> I'm guessing this is going to be in a similar price range...





koketso said:


> Battery life and wireless capabilities.



Don't forget autofocus.


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## unfocused (Apr 20, 2020)

picperfect said:


> yes I would. And I would radically reduce the number of different Rebels and DSLRs.
> 
> I bet a "100% pure stills" EOS R model with 35-40MP, 8fps, excellent AF, state of the art EVF, great DR & High ISO, IBIS, dual SD UHS-II slots, only internal video feed for EVF, priced at 1999 would sell extremely well.


Maybe. But selling a product below cost isn't exactly good business.


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## bmfotonet (Apr 20, 2020)

bergstrom said:


> its one thing to buy the r5 , if you can even afford it, but the next cost is to buy a new desktop that can handle 8k and thats another $2000 +



I would estimate 5000 for a workstation with Xeon Processor, Quadro RTX Graphics card, and lots of fast ssd storage. That's not counting the monitor. B&H currently has 1 model of 8K monitor and it's 3500. Not exactly priced for hobbyists.


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## sanj (Apr 20, 2020)

bmfotonet said:


> How many people will actually use the 8K or high bitrate 4K modes? I still shoot everything in 1080p for my youtube channel for ease of editing and uploading. I can understand for professional productions for Netflix, etc. but for not for amateurs and youtubers. Are people mostly excited to have internet bragging rights even if they will never shoot anything in those modes?


Me!


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## bmfotonet (Apr 20, 2020)

sanj said:


> Me!



I'd love to check out your work. Do you have a portfolio online?


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## davidhfe (Apr 20, 2020)

picperfect said:


> yes I would. And I would radically reduce the number of different Rebels and DSLRs.
> 
> I bet a "100% pure stills" EOS R model with 35-40MP, 8fps, excellent AF, state of the art EVF, great DR & High ISO, IBIS, dual SD UHS-II slots, only internal video feed for EVF, priced at 1999 would sell extremely well.



What makes you think this camera would be $1500 less expensive for Canon to manufacture than a 45mp R5?


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## sanj (Apr 20, 2020)

GoldWing said:


> If this camera is water sealed.... It could prompt those who were 1DXIII bound to take a look. Looking at DR, shadow recovery, focus speed, ISO noise.... This could be enough to get people to consider investing in new RF Glass.


I cancelled my 1dx3 plans


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## David_E (Apr 20, 2020)

AccipiterQ said:


> ...I know people are psyched that shoot video, but why wouldn't you just buy a video camera if that's what you need? I'm genuinely curious...


Bingo. I'm waiting for one of these people who are fired up up over the video performance to post a link to their feature film, documentary, nature video, or whatever. My suspicion is that their hobby is reading and criticizing DSLR video specs. And maybe making videos of their cute cats for Facebook.

M5, RP, 6D Mark II, 5D Mark IV. *I make still photographs, mostly.*


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## Stone (Apr 20, 2020)

bmfotonet said:


> I'd love to check out your work. Do you have a portfolio online?



I'd love to see his audience all 3 of them, the average laptop does not render 8K the highest sellers still sell with 1080p displays, the average phone can barely do 4K. There is no audience for 8K YET, will it happen eventually? Yes it will, but it's years away and this camera will surely be obsolete by that time. Just as an example, I have a 6 year old 4K TV. Is it the pinnacle of technology & resolution? Nope not anymore but people comes to my home and compliment the display on my old Sony Bravia. We are no where near ubiquitous 8K and once we get there, this camera will be old tech. I should leave this thread before I'm labeled angry grandpa, which I am..lol!!


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## sanj (Apr 20, 2020)

bmfotonet said:


> I'd love to check out your work. Do you have a portfolio online?


www.sanjayfgupta.com (Not revised for 3 years but am collecting strength now since have time at hand.)
www.sanjayfgupta.com


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## privatebydesign (Apr 21, 2020)

unfocused said:


> Maybe. But selling a product below cost isn't exactly good business.


Loss leading has been a very successful marketing strategy for many companies for years, selling an item below cost can be a very good business tool.


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## sanj (Apr 21, 2020)

Stone said:


> I'd love to see his audience all 3 of them, the average laptop does not render 8K the highest sellers still sell with 1080p displays, the average phone can barely do 4K. There is no audience for 8K YET, will it happen eventually? Yes it will, but it's years away and this camera will surely be obsolete by that time. Just as an example, I have a 6 year old 4K TV. Is it the pinnacle of technology & resolution? Nope not anymore but people comes to my home and compliment the display on my old Sony Bravia. We are no where near ubiquitous 8K and once we get there, this camera will be old tech. I should leave this thread before I'm labeled angry grandpa, which I am..lol!!


Have we not been through this over last several years? 4k is not needed etc? Yes I will shoot 8k when can and publish it in 4k or 2k but shooting at 8k will be so FLEXIBLE.


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## privatebydesign (Apr 21, 2020)

tiltshift said:


> I just hope that because of how awesome this is that they don't price this at like $6k... I know its a 5 series "replacement" or whatever so it should be in the $3500 range but.....


Well RF lenses are selling at 50% over their EF cousins on average, so....


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## sanj (Apr 21, 2020)

bmfotonet said:


> I'd love to check out your work. Do you have a portfolio online?


I hope you approve!


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## londonxt (Apr 21, 2020)

analoggrotto said:


> What if this turns out to be a video-only mirrorless camera?



Don't worry you should be able to configure the touch bar to activate ye olde shutter snaps


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## Stone (Apr 21, 2020)

sanj said:


> Have we not been through this over last several years? 4k is not needed etc? Yes I will shoot 8k when can and publish it in 4k or 2k but shooting at 8k will be so FLEXIBLE.











What Can You Watch in 8K?


8K TVs have finally arrived, but what about 8K content? If you're an early adopter or just plain curious, here's what you can watch in 8K right now.




www.pcmag.com





I'm not saying it won't happen, but we're nowhere near it. Presenting 8K is currently a waste of space, but space is cheap. 1080P is the standard and will be for a few years more yet. I work on a 4K laptop and it's just wasted pixels, the average person can not appreciate it, I downsize my content for the greatest audience. 4K will become the standard and eventually so will 8K but the majority of the planet are just not there. Once they get there, this iteration of the 5 series will cost less than $1K. My day jobs is IT Architect, my side hustle is photography. I'd like to think I know how technology ebbs and flows. This is Canon's "look at me I can still compete" moment, it's a nice one but it is what it is....


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## bmfotonet (Apr 21, 2020)

sanj said:


> I hope you approve!



It actually looks pretty decent. I'm impressed.


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## Ozarker (Apr 21, 2020)

AEWest said:


> I'm not sure if IBIS will work with RF IS lenses only or include EF IS lenses. I haven't seen any confirmation either way.
> 
> R5 may disable one of the two systems if EF IS lenses are used. This could be for technical reasons or marketing reasons - i.e. they want you to upgrade to RF lenses to get the full Monty i.e. cripple hammer.


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## tpatana (Apr 21, 2020)

sanj said:


> www.sanjayfgupta.com (Not revised for 3 years but am collecting strength now since have time at hand.)
> www.sanjayfgupta.com



Nice stuff.


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## sanj (Apr 21, 2020)

Stone said:


> What Can You Watch in 8K?
> 
> 
> 8K TVs have finally arrived, but what about 8K content? If you're an early adopter or just plain curious, here's what you can watch in 8K right now.
> ...


I so disagree. 8k will make the files look better and will allow me to crop, do electronic dolly moves etc etc.


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## jjj120 (Apr 21, 2020)

Looks pretty expensive...


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## sanj (Apr 21, 2020)

bmfotonet said:


> It actually looks pretty decent. I'm impressed.


I so appreciate you asking for it. Now I am going to update it and add 3 years of stuff. Thank you for your approval. Could I see your work?


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## tpatana (Apr 21, 2020)

I guess he has similar mind set as I usually have. Shoot the best possible quality, as it mostly impacts post process time but gives you more freedom.

One time I was shooting music performance, just had 4k videocam on trippod at the back of the room. I edited it into several 1080p sections and many 720p (upscaled to 1080p), plus added some panning around too. For final edit I did cutting between the sections depending where was action, panning etc and exported at 1080p. When I sent to the group leader, he was asking how many cameras and helpers I had there (since he knew I was backstage shooting other stuff). Didn't tell my magic that I only had one 4k camera.


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## Ozarker (Apr 21, 2020)

picperfect said:


> yes I would. And I would radically reduce the number of different Rebels and DSLRs.
> 
> I bet a "100% pure stills" EOS R model with 35-40MP, 8fps, excellent AF, state of the art EVF, great DR & High ISO, IBIS, dual SD UHS-II slots, only internal video feed for EVF, priced at 1999 would sell extremely well.


And you'd lose the bet. Canon already knows that would be a loser.


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## Dragon (Apr 21, 2020)

Stone said:


> I'd be willing to bet this will be a $6K camera. 8K video? the people capable of viewing it are very rare although it admittedly gives a ton of flexibility in post. I've delivered photos to hundreds of clients and printed as large as they've ever requested with my 5DIII & my Fuji X-T2. My days of a $20K kit when you add great glass and strobes is over. Canon will NOT price this body competitively, it's just not the way they do things. Love the specs, but would never spend that kind of money again on a body that will be equaled or bested by competitors in 2 years or less. I'll just live vicariously through those that have the disposable income for this camera.


$6k is way too close to the 1DXIII. I'd say $4500 is tops.


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## CanonOmar (Apr 21, 2020)

kraats said:


> Hoe much money and time do jou waste on switching brands?


I came out even financially, and have been floored by the low-light quality from the Sony rig. I REALLY miss Canon's color science, the ergonomics, and menu system, but I wanted 4k video with af and sound recording in slow-mo... Canon had nothing.
Still no word if the R5 will allow sound with slow motion either, but fingers crossed.


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## Dragon (Apr 21, 2020)

AEWest said:


> I'm not sure if IBIS will work with RF IS lenses only or include EF IS lenses. I haven't seen any confirmation either way.
> 
> R5 may disable one of the two systems if EF IS lenses are used. This could be for technical reasons or marketing reasons - i.e. they want you to upgrade to RF lenses to get the full Monty i.e. cripple hammer.


Read the release and the reports. Canon said RF and EF lenses.


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## CanonOmar (Apr 21, 2020)

Adventure Kid said:


> ya, you should have waited. lesson learned.


I've been really happy with the Sony and definitely have zero regrets from switching. What I've been able to capture in the past year was worth it. I'll go with whatever brand can give me what I need.
Canon had no ff 4k slow-mo with af or sound.


----------



## Dragon (Apr 21, 2020)

goldenhusky said:


> Per Canon IBIS will work with EF lenses that has Is as well.


Yep, that was my point. I guess the "if" was confusing.


----------



## Dragon (Apr 21, 2020)

definedphotography said:


> That would be fantastic. I can't see it happening though. I think with EF glass, you'll need to choose either IBIS or IS. RF glass will do a combo.
> Canon please prove me wrong!


They clearly said the R5 IBIS works with the IS in RF AND EF lenses. It may turn out that it works a bit better with RF lenses, but it does work with both.


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## reef58 (Apr 21, 2020)

Del Paso said:


> I suppose, in the future, we'll have to miss all these funny "Canon's cripple hammer" features on Youtube.
> Let's shed crocodile tears for all the unemployed trolls, I'll regret them...
> What if we all bought some Sonies to save the company from bankrupcy ?



Camera Conspiracies is funny as heck. I am a Canon guy but love his channel. I don't think anyone watches that channel for gear advice.


----------



## Stone (Apr 21, 2020)

sanj said:


> I so disagree. 8k will make the files look better and will allow me to crop, do electronic dolly moves etc etc.



I agree with this, where I disagree is in who will be able to take advantage of it. I won't notice any of those things on my phone, my digital photo frame, my television or my overpriced monitor. I'm not saying it's not an improvement, I'm saying most will not know the difference and definitely will not pay for it. I applaud you for pushing the envelope, but the majority of the planet is 2 generations behind you. At the end of the day, you will have purchased another mega expensive camera before your admittedly good work (I visited your page and I like it very much) can be appreciated in it's full resolution glory. I'm not anyone's antagonist here, just introducing a dose of real life. Who spends this kind of money to not get paid? That number is very low despite everyone screaming "shut up and take my money!!"


----------



## privatebydesign (Apr 21, 2020)

David_E said:


> Bingo. I'm waiting for one of these people who are fired up up over the video performance to post a link to their feature film, documentary, nature video, or whatever. My suspicion is that their hobby is reading and criticizing DSLR video specs. And maybe making videos of their cute cats for Facebook.
> 
> M5, RP, 6D Mark II, 5D Mark IV. *I make still photographs, mostly.*


 Er, go look at Sanj’s website, then come back and tell us why he shouldn’t be excited.


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## clearlyed (Apr 21, 2020)

I mean - wow. what an incredible day for canon shooters. In fact for the photography world, Canon has proved it can be done so other companies will follow for sure. its just going to take a some time. 
Video - Canon R5 specs a camera comparison 

*I think this*

Canon shooters - You just struck gold
Other shooters -You are fine and shouldn't switch. 
New shooters - 100% will buy cano
= Canon gets all new growth.


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## bmfotonet (Apr 21, 2020)

sanj said:


> I so appreciate you asking for it. Now I am going to update it and add 3 years of stuff. Thank you for your approval. Could I see your work?











Bret Miller


Professional DevOps Engineer. Amateur Photographer. Chicago.




www.youtube.com





Mine's pretty basic.


----------



## reef58 (Apr 21, 2020)

Stone said:


> I'd love to see his audience all 3 of them, the average laptop does not render 8K the highest sellers still sell with 1080p displays, the average phone can barely do 4K. There is no audience for 8K YET, will it happen eventually? Yes it will, but it's years away and this camera will surely be obsolete by that time. Just as an example, I have a 6 year old 4K TV. Is it the pinnacle of technology & resolution? Nope not anymore but people comes to my home and compliment the display on my old Sony Bravia. We are no where near ubiquitous 8K and once we get there, this camera will be old tech. I should leave this thread before I'm labeled angry grandpa, which I am..lol!!



Fortunately people get to make their own buying decision regardless of their motivation. If someone wants 8k more power to them. Why does it bother you?


----------



## sanj (Apr 21, 2020)

bmfotonet said:


> Bret Miller
> 
> 
> Professional DevOps Engineer. Amateur Photographer. Chicago.
> ...


   Super!


----------



## sanj (Apr 21, 2020)

reef58 said:


> Fortunately people get to make their own buying decision regardless of their motivation. If someone wants 8k more power to them. Why does it bother you?


YEP!


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## sanj (Apr 21, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Er, go look at Sanj’s website, then come back and tell us why he shouldn’t be excited.


Thank you Private


----------



## sanj (Apr 21, 2020)

Stone said:


> I agree with this, where I disagree is in who will be able to take advantage of it. I won't notice any of those things on my phone, my digital photo frame, my television or my overpriced monitor. I'm not saying it's not an improvement, I'm saying most will not know the difference and definitely will not pay for it. I applaud you for pushing the envelope, but the majority of the planet is 2 generations behind you. At the end of the day, you will have purchased another mega expensive camera before your admittedly good work (I visited your page and I like it very much) can be appreciated in it's full resolution glory. I'm not anyone's antagonist here, just introducing a dose of real life. Who spends this kind of money to not get paid? That number is very low despite everyone screaming "shut up and take my money!!"


This camera is not intended for phone viewing. It is meant for people to do semi-professional and professional work which will be seen on laptops, TV etc. Sir.


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## sanj (Apr 21, 2020)

Why is everyone jumping at conclusions and calling it expensive? Let's first see what it is priced at. Jobs have disappeared and I personally will buy it when my kind of jobs (mostly involving international travel) come up again. And 'expensive' is relative. It may not be expensive for all the features it offers. For people who want the features of this camera, $3500 to $4200 this camera is CHEAP!!!


----------



## sanj (Apr 21, 2020)

koketso said:


> Battery life and wireless capabilities.


Spare batteries will not be expensive.


----------



## dslrdummy (Apr 21, 2020)

Even though I never use the video function on my cameras, it is very likely the R5, because of its impressive video capabilities, will appeal to a broader range of customer including the ever expanding hybrid shooter cohort, and so be more affordable than one aimed solely at us stills photographers. Here's hoping.


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## Stone (Apr 21, 2020)

reef58 said:


> Fortunately people get to make their own buying decision regardless of their motivation. If someone wants 8k more power to them. Why does it bother you?



I stated what I believe are reasonable and unreasonable expectations and/or scenarios for this body. Learn to respect opinions that differ from your own. You've added nothing relevant to the conversation and provided zero counterpoints. I'm 55 and retiring this year, a full10 years early for not being a fool with my money, absolutely nothing bothers me. Cheers...


----------



## dash2k8 (Apr 21, 2020)

These specs are even better than a Red camera from three years ago. The fact that Canon is going full-blown on the R5 suggests two things to me:
1. They're heavily invested in retaking the DSLR video market that they first carved out with the 5D2 but since overtaken by Sony and Panasonic
2. Their C-series cameras are going to be even better, which is mindblowing.

As for those predicting Sony's doom, who's to say Sony doesn't have an answer down the line in a few month's time?


----------



## dash2k8 (Apr 21, 2020)

Stone said:


> I agree with this, where I disagree is in who will be able to take advantage of it. I won't notice any of those things on my phone, my digital photo frame, my television or my overpriced monitor. I'm not saying it's not an improvement, I'm saying most will not know the difference and definitely will not pay for it. I applaud you for pushing the envelope, but the majority of the planet is 2 generations behind you. At the end of the day, you will have purchased another mega expensive camera before your admittedly good work (I visited your page and I like it very much) can be appreciated in it's full resolution glory. I'm not anyone's antagonist here, just introducing a dose of real life. Who spends this kind of money to not get paid? That number is very low despite everyone screaming "shut up and take my money!!"


For working pros, 8k definitely is meaningful. I and many colleagues who do video regularly, we shoot 4K and downscale to 1080p often and take advantage of the better detail. Our customers also notice it and desire it. Having 8K gives us the ability to downscale from an even higher source, that's awesome just thinking about it.


----------



## Stone (Apr 21, 2020)

dash2k8 said:


> For working pros, 8k definitely is meaningful. I and many colleagues who do video regularly, we shoot 4K and downscale to 1080p often and take advantage of the better detail. Our customers also notice it and desire it. Having 8K gives us the ability to downscale from an even higher source, that's awesome just thinking about it.



If it makes you money then by all means go for it. I have no problem with being on the cutting edge, I'm simply considering profit vs investment ratio. I'd love to see your work, I'm a fan of all good photography & video.


----------



## tpatana (Apr 21, 2020)

dash2k8 said:


> These specs are even better than a Red camera from three years ago. The fact that Canon is going full-blown on the R5 suggests two things to me:
> 1. They're heavily invested in retaking the DSLR video market that they first carved out with the 5D2 but since overtaken by Sony and Panasonic
> 2. Their C-series cameras are going to be even better, which is mindblowing.
> 
> As for those predicting Sony's doom, who's to say Sony doesn't have an answer down the line in a few month's time?



We don't know yet how the actual footage quality looks on R5. Many cameras have great specs on paper but the actual footage is not great, due to some bad compression, lousy codec or something.

But yes, the specs looks very good. For my personal use I'm still curious if the 1080p will go beyond 120fps. If yes, next question is if it's still does DPAF. One of my disappointments with 5D4 was that DPAF worked only up to 60fps.


----------



## AEWest (Apr 21, 2020)

dash2k8 said:


> These specs are even better than a Red camera from three years ago. The fact that Canon is going full-blown on the R5 suggests two things to me:
> 1. They're heavily invested in retaking the DSLR video market that they first carved out with the 5D2 but since overtaken by Sony and Panasonic
> 2. Their C-series cameras are going to be even better, which is mindblowing.
> 
> As for those predicting Sony's doom, who's to say Sony doesn't have an answer down the line in a few month's time?


I believe this is a feature war that will cause some camera companies to fold. With the massive drop in overall camera sales, market share is everything so Canon is throwing everything but the kitchen sink into selling this camera. And at a relatively reasonable price. 

Good for the consumer as other manufacturers will be forced to compete.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 21, 2020)

The video capabilities don't impress me simply because I don't do serious video. However, it will sell cameras. The Olympics was planned to be broadcast in 8K, so all the manufacturers are getting on the bandwagon. I expect that the current slow camera market caused Canon's sales department to ask for speciications that would meet what they expect from competitors. They all pretty much know where the industry is going. Obviously, there is finally some new technology going into sensor manufacturing. Will it improve high ISO low light noise? I'd expect a incremental improvement, they need to portion improvements out over time, its just how things work.

8K is not a huge improvement in resolution, resolution does not double. Whether people can see it, or even find 8K source material does not matter. Most TV sets are now 4K capable, they have a good picture, so I can't complain. As to editing 8K with my computer, I think it would be a pain, but the technology is there to make it happen.

So, I'm interested in what still improvements I'd see over my R and my 5D MK IV.


----------



## sanj (Apr 21, 2020)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> The video capabilities don't impress me simply because I don't do serious video. However, it will sell cameras. The Olympics was planned to be broadcast in 8K, so all the manufacturers are getting on the bandwagon. I expect that the current slow camera market caused Canon's sales department to ask for speciications that would meet what they expect from competitors. They all pretty much know where the industry is going. Obviously, there is finally some new technology going into sensor manufacturing. Will it improve high ISO low light noise? I'd expect a incremental improvement, they need to portion improvements out over time, its just how things work.
> 
> 8K is not a huge improvement in resolution, resolution does not double. Whether people can see it, or even find 8K source material does not matter. Most TV sets are now 4K capable, they have a good picture, so I can't complain. As to editing 8K with my computer, I think it would be a pain, but the technology is there to make it happen.
> 
> So, I'm interested in what still improvements I'd see over my R and my 5D MK IV.


Editing 8k on any decent computer will not be difficult.


----------



## analoggrotto (Apr 21, 2020)

The one who will bring balance to the dynamic range?


----------



## Chris.Chapterten (Apr 21, 2020)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> The video capabilities don't impress me simply because I don't do serious video. However, it will sell cameras. The Olympics was planned to be broadcast in 8K, so all the manufacturers are getting on the bandwagon. I expect that the current slow camera market caused Canon's sales department to ask for speciications that would meet what they expect from competitors. They all pretty much know where the industry is going. Obviously, there is finally some new technology going into sensor manufacturing. Will it improve high ISO low light noise? I'd expect a incremental improvement, they need to portion improvements out over time, its just how things work.
> 
> 8K is not a huge improvement in resolution, resolution does not double. Whether people can see it, or even find 8K source material does not matter. Most TV sets are now 4K capable, they have a good picture, so I can't complain. As to editing 8K with my computer, I think it would be a pain, but the technology is there to make it happen.
> 
> So, I'm interested in what still improvements I'd see over my R and my 5D MK IV.


8k is actually 4 times the pixel resolution of 4k.


----------



## sanj (Apr 21, 2020)

Stone said:


> I stated what I believe are reasonable and unreasonable expectations and/or scenarios for this body. Learn to respect opinions that differ from your own. You've added nothing relevant to the conversation and provided zero counterpoints. I'm 55 and retiring this year, a full10 years early for not being a fool with my money, absolutely nothing bothers me. Cheers...


55 is YOUNG! Best wishes...


----------



## shawn (Apr 21, 2020)

sanj said:


> Editing 8k on any decent computer will not be difficult.


Most people use proxies anyway so it's a non issue for everyone except rank amateurs who know nothing. Besides, I am able to edit 4k without proxies on my computer which is running 32GB of memory and an AMD 3900X. If my proxies are 4k resolution I think I'll survive... LOL


----------



## unfocused (Apr 21, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Loss leading has been a very successful marketing strategy for many companies for years, selling an item below cost can be a very good business tool.


Way to take things out of context.

I was responding to this comment: _"I bet a "100% pure stills" EOS R model with 35-40MP, 8fps, excellent AF, state of the art EVF, great DR & High ISO, IBIS, dual SD UHS-II slots, only internal video feed for EVF, priced at 1999 would sell extremely well."_

Do you really think Canon would make and sell a camera with those specs for under $2,000 as a loss leader? Perhaps you'd like to provide a list of full frame bodies that are sold as "loss leaders."


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## herein2020 (Apr 21, 2020)

michi said:


> I wonder how much money it would save if they split the line. One camera without video capability and one with. With all the Canon DSLR’s I have owned, I have never once taken a video. I would love to save some money and buy a R5 without the video capabilities. I guess that will never happen. R&D probably costs the bulk, and they would use me to pay for that even though I don’t use it. Still, would be nice.


When will people realize that a photo only camera would not be cheaper. So few people would buy it that they would have to make up the low volume with higher prices. Us hybrid shooters are the ones buying enough volume to keep the prices low enough for everyone to benefit from the lower prices that the manufacturers can charge due to the higher volume of bodies sold.


----------



## sdz (Apr 21, 2020)

ahsanford said:


> HOLY CRAP THEY STILL WON'T ANNOUNCE THE SENSOR RESOLUTION
> 
> Canon pushed this out on Twitter 5 minutes ago:
> 
> ...



There is this.


----------



## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (Apr 21, 2020)

*Canon auctioned-off it's CRIPPLE HAMMER to finance all these great new R5 specs !

It's reported the purchaser is a Sheikh, who placed the valuable hammer in a glass case next to a rare 1200mm lens copy.*


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## Bangrossi (Apr 21, 2020)

Killer specs! If canon keep the price same as 5D4, I think it will sell like a hot cake and kill all the other competitor. The only thing that sony can do is lower the price of their current model to be more attractive in the shrinking market.

Glad I already invested in RF glasses. This R5 will match perfectly with my RF lenses


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## privatebydesign (Apr 21, 2020)

unfocused said:


> Way to take things out of context.
> 
> I was responding to this comment: _"I bet a "100% pure stills" EOS R model with 35-40MP, 8fps, excellent AF, state of the art EVF, great DR & High ISO, IBIS, dual SD UHS-II slots, only internal video feed for EVF, priced at 1999 would sell extremely well."_
> 
> Do you really thing Canon would make and sell a camera with those specs for under $2,000 as a loss leader? Perhaps you'd like to provide a list of full frame bodies that are sold as "loss leaders."


No I do not, but I quoted your post in it's entirety and as it reads it is as false as the suggestion of an R5 lite. An R5 lite is not going to happen, ever, and selling things below cost does happen and can be good business.


----------



## herein2020 (Apr 21, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> It's not a simple question of "better" Regardless of video, the R5 will outsell the Panny by orders of magnitude because of the massive Canon user base. This is still built to be a 5 series body, which means wedding professionals and portrait artists, wildelifers, landscapers, etc.... The Panny S1H has a single, much smaller user base. Video.
> 
> In other words, Canon is pricing this machine to fit into a WELL established price range like all the other 5 bodies in the last 10 years. Because they will sell boat loads more, they can amortize those fixed costs of R&D over a much much much larger sales volume compared to the S1H. Canon is out for blood folks.
> 
> They just made THE camera that I can easily argue will greatly satisfy both stills people AND video people. Why price it $4500-5000 and cut your sales by more than the increase in price would afford? They won't. They are looking to take out Sony and Nikon and end whatever chance Panasonic still had left. The money is in the GLASS. And Canon wants as many folks investing in the RF mount bodies in order to push the high margin lenses



People can dream all they want, mark my words this will not be less than $4k...by your logic the RF lenses should be the same prices as their EF equivalents. It's a new world with a shrinking market, inflation vs the Japanese yen, doing more with less, etc. I would be happy to eat crow when the price is finally announced but no logic so far counters simple economics. If you ignore all other factors and only look at currency exchange rates now vs when the 5D IV was released you will know there is no way this will be under $4K.


----------



## herein2020 (Apr 21, 2020)

bmfotonet said:


> I would estimate 5000 for a workstation with Xeon Processor, Quadro RTX Graphics card, and lots of fast ssd storage. That's not counting the monitor. B&H currently has 1 model of 8K monitor and it's 3500. Not exactly priced for hobbyists.


It's not that bad, and actually if you use PP you do not want a Xeon processor (found that out the hard way). I have a Core I9 CPU, 64GB of RAM, NVME project storage, and an SSD drive for cache all bundled into an HP Z4, and an older 980 TI GPU, total build I think around $3500. I think Davinci Resolve will have no problems with this footage and if it does that's what proxy files are for. If you really can't afford to upgrade then use proxys on import and go do something else for a few hours while they are created.


----------



## PureClassA (Apr 21, 2020)

herein2020 said:


> People can dream all they want, mark my words this will not be less than $4k...by your logic the RF lenses should be the same prices as their EF equivalents. It's a new world with a shrinking market, inflation vs the Japanese yen, doing more with less, etc. I would be happy to eat crow when the price is finally announced but no logic so far counters simple economics. If you ignore all other factors and only look at currency exchange rates now vs when the 5D IV was released you will know there is no way this will be under $4K.



I understand your thought process but Canon has indicated (in their Canon way) they are here to “Hulk Smash”. The most comparable spec camera recently released who is the top of the competition? Photo below. Check that price. The R5 will be below $4000. The first digit in the official USD pricing will be a “3”


----------



## herein2020 (Apr 21, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> I understand your thought process but Canon has indicated (in their Canon way) they are here to “Hulk Smash”. The most comparable spec camera recently released who is the top of the competition? Photo below. Check that price. The R5 will be below $4000. The first digit in the official USD pricing will be a “3”


I'm with you, and I hope you are right; but Canon also has been known not to care about competitors prices; aware yes...care no. I still think it will be $3999 on release, squeeze every penny they can from early adopters (especially if there is limited availability on release due to the pandemic) then slowly drop to $3500 over the next year or so.

Personally I'm still banking on the R6 being my first R body would love to get more info on it sometime soon.


----------



## Danglin52 (Apr 21, 2020)

GoldWing said:


> Devoting a camera to still photography.... Dream on... They only build such a thing in Heaven


I think video is what helps push the tech in this camera. they had to provide a robust platform for video which only helps empower the stills side. The combined functionality let’s them address two types of customers with one SKU. IN THE LONG RUN, THIS IS PROBABLY MORE COST EFFECTIVE and let’s them deliver more tech at a lower price due to the higher potential volumes.


----------



## prodorshak (Apr 21, 2020)

Thank you CRGuy for such accurate leaks. Great work.


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## Chris.Chapterten (Apr 21, 2020)

Still can't get over the 8k RAW and 4k 120 10bit.... beyond my expectations.. awesome stuff!


----------



## tpatana (Apr 21, 2020)

shawn said:


> Most people use proxies anyway so it's a non issue for everyone except rank amateurs who know nothing. Besides, I am able to edit 4k without proxies on my computer which is running 32GB of memory and an AMD 3900X. If my proxies are 4k resolution I think I'll survive... LOL



My CPU is from 2014 (albeit higher end at the time), and I still edit 4k without proxies. Not great, but good enough. I have been thinking to upgrade to 3900X and 2070-Super to make it bit snappier.


----------



## tpatana (Apr 21, 2020)

sanj said:


> 55 is YOUNG! Best wishes...



The more I scroll through your website, the more I'm intrigued to hear your story about photography, like how did you start and what all cool things happened along the way to get you all those cool shots and videos you have at your page.


----------



## padam (Apr 21, 2020)

I wonder if the 4k60p and 4k120p will have the same resolution, or there is more line skipping on the latter.
The 1DX III might be sharper in 4k60p FF mode, as it still uses all the pixels, although AF has to be disabled, where the R5 has it in all 4k modes and the 4k60p rolling shutter is probably better on the R5.
They probably need to re-think the sub-menu regarding video recording options, the list will be endless, they haven't mentioned a crop mode, which is likely to be available as well.


----------



## Ozarker (Apr 21, 2020)

Stone said:


> If it makes you money then by all means go for it. I have no problem with being on the cutting edge, I'm simply considering profit vs investment ratio. I'd love to see your work, I'm a fan of all good photography & video.


The thing is this: Professionals are not the lion's share that will support the market. They are a niche'. It is well heeled amateurs that support the market. There are far more of them, and for a number of them 8k will be meaningful. I notice you keep asking to see the work of others after they comment. Where is yours? Specifically, where are your videos? Where are your "feature films, whatever." You see, many do video and take photos purely for their own use and enjoyment. They don't need you to approve, disapprove, like, or decide whether or not they decide what they need. Canon obviously knows far more than you or I what the market needs, or will need, in the future. Personally, I like the fact that it appears Canon is getting ahead in the tech dept. That makes the camera a better "investment" and not requiring some to upgrade as soon as they would have. If you don't need it, fine. However, your deciding that others don't and then demanding to see their work so you can have a possible "gotcha" (in your own mind) is just plain rude. BTW: Nobody cares that you retire at 55 except you. That is completely meaningless to the conversation. Some people retire earlier than that (me) and others keep working into old age because they love what they do. Suggesting that people who buy this camera are fools with their money... *sigh* You should learn to respect that others have needs/wants that differ from your own. They don't have to justify that to you or anyone else.



Stone said:


> Learn to respect opinions that differ from your own. You've added nothing relevant to the conversation and provided zero counterpoints. I'm 55 and retiring this year, a full10 years early for not being a fool with my money, absolutely nothing bothers me. Cheers...


----------



## dancan (Apr 21, 2020)

Despite of all the hype, I would be patient and wait how the camera will perform in real life photography.
Personally I am not very much interested in video specs, I would like to see best DR and overall photo performance.
Hope Canon put their R5-knowledge in a more photo orientated higher MP camera!


----------



## Jim Corbett (Apr 21, 2020)

Are there any rumors about R5 taking photos?


----------



## peters (Apr 21, 2020)

RMac said:


> Any reason to get a 1DXiii now other than form factor and preference for OVF?
> I'm guessing this is going to be in a similar price range...


I would say Main reason is the LAN port for sports photographer. Also I thought the OVF is still a rather big reason fir sportphotographers


----------



## justaCanonuser (Apr 21, 2020)

Mark3794 said:


> Don't worry they are still hating on Canon


Well, the R5 has only 45 MP, so Canon is dooooomed


----------



## jazzytune (Apr 21, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> I understand your thought process but Canon has indicated (in their Canon way) they are here to “Hulk Smash”. The most comparable spec camera recently released who is the top of the competition? Photo below. Check that price. The R5 will be below $4000. The first digit in the official USD pricing will be a “3”


$3999.99 US !! That's my bet!


----------



## justaCanonuser (Apr 21, 2020)

peters said:


> I would say Main reason is the LAN port for sports photographer. Also I thought the OVF is still a rather big reason fir sportphotographers


OVF is good for wildlife, too, because you can observe e.g. a bird nest for hours through your tele lens without draining the battery with every look. Wildlife is 90+ % waiting until something interesting happens. So, with a ML you waste about 90 % of the battery or you may need to carry extra binoculars with you.


----------



## justaCanonuser (Apr 21, 2020)

jazzytune said:


> $3999.99 US !! That's my bet!


I already suggested in another R5 thread on CR that they should open an R5 betting shop about final specs and prices - to finance their site a bit.


----------



## derpderp (Apr 21, 2020)

David_E said:


> Wow, talk about pissing your money away! What happens when Sony or someone else beats Canon’s R5 specs? LCD 1mm larger, e.g. Toss it all again until someone goes 2mm larger?



Sounds like someone's jealous... It's his money, let him do with it what he wants. I, for one, enjoy getting the latest and greatest.


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## justaCanonuser (Apr 21, 2020)

Jim Corbett said:


> Are there any rumors about R5 taking photos?


The R5 is an Anti-Sony-weapon, so specs might be more important than taking photos


----------



## justaCanonuser (Apr 21, 2020)

derpderp said:


> Sounds like someone's jealous... It's his money, let him do with it what he wants. I, for one, enjoy getting the latest and greatest.


@ derpderp: I've just seen the crossed-out items in your gear list, looks like you only have lenses left and no camera?!


----------



## derpderp (Apr 21, 2020)

justaCanonuser said:


> OVF is good for wildlife, too, because you can observe e.g. a bird nest for hours through your tele lens without draining the battery with every look. Wildlife is 90+ % waiting until something interesting happens. So, with a ML you waste about 90 % of the battery or you may need to carry extra binoculars with you.



I'm not familiar with the workflow of a wildlife photographer, but do they look through the viewfinder for hours on end, without taking a break? If they just look through the viewfinder once every few minutes, I don't think there's any practical difference between an OVF and a EVF (edit: in terms of battery drain).


----------



## derpderp (Apr 21, 2020)

justaCanonuser said:


> @ derpderp: I've just seen the crossed-out items in your gear list, looks like you only have lenses left and no camera?!



You are quite right. I've been locked down for the better part of the last couple months, and I anticipate not going anywhere for the next few, so I decided to get rid of the EOS RP while the selling price is still decent


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## justaCanonuser (Apr 21, 2020)

derpderp said:


> I'm not familiar with the workflow of a wildlife photographer, but do they look through the viewfinder for hours on end, without taking a break? If they just look through the viewfinder once every few minutes, I don't think there's any practical difference between an OVF and a EVF.


This wasn't meant completely seriously  but irony (which is a vintage conversation technique that is lost on the internet) aside: indeed, wildlife means peering quite frequently through the VF, for hours. I know what I am talking about.


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## justaCanonuser (Apr 21, 2020)

derpderp said:


> You are quite right. I've been locked down for the better part of the last couple months, and I anticipate not going anywhere for the next few, so I decided to get rid of the EOS RP while the selling price is still decent


Taking a break from photography isn't a bad thing. I do that frequently, sometimes then I only draw in my sketchbooks (mostly people, street, currently not possible). Getting a bit of distance helps to see with a fresh eye what you are doing. So, good luck with your decision for a new camera and have always good light!


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## justaCanonuser (Apr 21, 2020)

analoggrotto said:


> The one who will bring balance to the dynamic range?


Canon certainly hopes that the R5 will bring balance in the dynamic sales into the ML market  .

Well, as a user who has quite a lot invested in Canon gear I do hope that they regain their leadership with the new ML cameras. Keeps the future stable for us customers. Btw I really appreciate that Sony has kicked Canon in there - beep - to return to innovative products. After the 5D II video revolution they were really sitting on their laurels, their only smart innovation was dual pixel AF (which I really like).


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## derpderp (Apr 21, 2020)

justaCanonuser said:


> Taking a break from photography isn't a bad thing. I do that frequently, sometimes then I only draw in my sketchbooks (mostly people, street, currently not possible). Getting a bit of distance helps to see with a fresh eye what you are doing. So, good luck with your decision for a new camera and have always good light!



Cheers. May the ISO be always in your favor too.


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## justaCanonuser (Apr 21, 2020)

reef58 said:


> Camera Conspiracies is funny as heck. I am a Canon guy but love his channel. I don't think anyone watches that channel for gear advice.


I agree, it's much more fun to watch this channel, in particular as a Canon user, than watching Northrop's camera church sermons.


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## justaCanonuser (Apr 21, 2020)

picperfect said:


> Nikon Df flopped because it did not live up at all to its wonderful teaser campaign. It was a Frankenstein camera with a totally botched user interface, low rez, re-used sensor at a way too high price. It did NOT fail because of lacking video recording.


It really was a mega-ugly Frankenstein design, with those piles of wheels on the top of it. In fact, they created a new Wizzard-of-wheels type of photography, but it never took off like e.g. the Lomography market.


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## justaCanonuser (Apr 21, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> I dont see the 8K part of this getting wide use. And I dont think Canon much cares. It’s showing people “Look at what we can do... Mic Drop”.


In fact, this is what Canon frequently did in its history. Back in 1961, e.g., they introduced their 50mm f/0.95 lens just to show off, it was the fastest series-produced lens for decades. They even had to introduce with the Canon 7 a new rangefinder camera suited for that monster lens. In practice, with manual focusing, you nearly never had a chance to get any slightly moving motif in focus wide open, but never mind. Dad always had to have the best thing available. But today, collectors are crazy about this lens, prices have gone through the roof.






CANON 50mm f/0.95 - Canon Camera Museum


Here, you can find out about Canon's S Lenses > 50-85mm > CANON 50mm f/0.95.



global.canon


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## HarryFilm (Apr 21, 2020)

peters said:


> I would say Main reason is the LAN port for sports photographer. Also I thought the OVF is still a rather big reason fir sportphotographers




It's also the LOWER PHOTOSITE COUNT of the 1DxMk3 (20 megapixels) which SHOULD give better low light performance and higher dynamic range than the smaller photosites of the Canon R5.

And that grip on the 1Dx series has ALWAYS been awesome to hold! Some of us have large hands and need a larger camera with higher weight in order to use them to our best ability.

The 1DX3 is for people who already have a lot of L-series glass and would like to keep it for a while until an R1x series full pro camera comes with some decent 400mm, 600mm and 800mm at f/2.8 or faster long lenses! OH! And add that R-mount 120mm to 650mm Sports Zoom !!! THEN they will switch over!

V


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## justaCanonuser (Apr 21, 2020)

AEWest said:


> Let me ask you, if you were Canon president would you authorise production of a stills only camera in a rapidly shrinking market? To me, I would want to reduce the number of models offered and make them as broadly accessible as possible to maintain margin and take market share from competitors.


The Leica president said yes, and the result was the Leica M10-D without even any display to chimp (pay more for less)


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## justaCanonuser (Apr 21, 2020)

Viriato said:


> Now we just need to know what is bigger
> The price
> Or the noise when lifting shadows...
> 
> Written by a Canon lover ( who also uses Nikon) that lives with a EOS R


Currently, there is a lot of noise about the R5 in the shadows of the internet.


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## picperfect (Apr 21, 2020)

justaCanonuser said:


> The Leica president said yes, and the result was the Leica M10-D without even any display to chimp (pay more for less)



Although in the opposite direction, Leica stuff is as far off as the EOS R5 is from what I - and presumably many other stills amateurs/enthusiasts- would like to get and are willing/able to afford.


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## justaCanonuser (Apr 21, 2020)

shawn said:


> Most people use proxies anyway so it's a non issue for everyone except rank amateurs who know nothing. Besides, I am able to edit 4k without proxies on my computer which is running 32GB of memory and an AMD 3900X. If my proxies are 4k resolution I think I'll survive... LOL


Sounds like you have the balls here...


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## picperfect (Apr 21, 2020)

justaCanonuser said:


> Currently, there is a lot of noise about the R5 in the shadows of the internet.



There will be howling, crying and gnashing of teeth once the price is known. Especially by those cheapskate hybrid/video/vlogger folks. They want "video for free". In every camera.


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## justaCanonuser (Apr 21, 2020)

sanj said:


> Have we not been through this over last several years? 4k is not needed etc? Yes I will shoot 8k when can and publish it in 4k or 2k but shooting at 8k will be so FLEXIBLE.


Yeah, people can even crop the eyes only of their cats in their cat vids . But irony aside, the R5 is a dedicated pro tool and there is no question that the film/video industry will start using it. I think what Canon does with the R5 is logical. It is just not a camera for those only wanting to shoot stills.


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## JoFT (Apr 21, 2020)

Here is my question... will this camera destroy Sony completely having DGO as well (Dual Gain Output)???


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## justaCanonuser (Apr 21, 2020)

CanonOmar said:


> I came out even financially, and have been floored by the low-light quality from the Sony rig. I REALLY miss Canon's color science, the ergonomics, and menu system, but I wanted 4k video with af and sound recording in slow-mo... Canon had nothing.
> Still no word if the R5 will allow sound with slow motion either, but fingers crossed.


I think it is up to everyone to switch brands, its a decision based on personal preferences. I did that back in the first decade after 2000, when I changed from Nikon to Canon because Canon was more attractive back then (and more logical to handle for me personally). I understand the reasons why you did that, and you do not need to apologize here.


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## justaCanonuser (Apr 21, 2020)

unfocused said:


> Can we PLEASE stop with the stupid "Canon beats Sony" memes. They add absolutely nothing to the discussion. It's fanboy-ism at its most childish and only makes you look silly.


well, sometimes a bit of silliness is liberating, in particular if you discuss rumors . Life is serious enough.


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## justaCanonuser (Apr 21, 2020)

bmfotonet said:


> I would estimate 5000 for a workstation with Xeon Processor, Quadro RTX Graphics card, and lots of fast ssd storage. That's not counting the monitor. B&H currently has 1 model of 8K monitor and it's 3500. Not exactly priced for hobbyists.


I'd say those prices might be more suited for some hobbyists than for many pro photographers who are really starving in this hard business. Btw I am an amateur


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## justaCanonuser (Apr 21, 2020)

Stone said:


> I agree, Canon is for the most part asking us to buy into a completely new system as they make their transition to mirrorless.


Not the first time, they did that with the change from the FD to the EF mount about 30 years ago. Many Canon users were shocked, but it was the right decision. The EF mount was a clean new design that helped Canon to grab a huge share of the pro market from Nikon with their fast AF system back in the 1990s. The Nikon F mount still suffers from Nikon's hard trial to keep the whole system compatible since more than a half century. I know what I am talking about, we have an extended Nikon gear.


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## picperfect (Apr 21, 2020)

justaCanonuser said:


> I think what Canon does with the R5 is logical.



I fail to see the logic. As a non-video user I really have a hard time understanding why Canon only makes 1 version of R5 and puts their ultimate video specs into it, and at the same time launches C300 III and neither it nor C500 II (FF) at significantly higher prices comes with 8k video specs. Why would anyone buy those C cameras now?

Logic to me would have been multiple versions of a new R camera, all using same body shell. Akin to original Sony A7/S/R product strategy.
e.g.
1. R5C - video-optimized version (similar to what 1DC was) with currently announced 8k hi-end video specs, 4999 MSRP [which would still leave my question re positioning vs. C300/C500 line]
2. R5 - hybrid, "straightforward mirrorfree 5D V", 45+ MP, decent 4k video specs, 3499 MSRP
3. R5R - pure stills "hi-rez" version, 5DS successor, 80 MP, no video recording (only internal EVF feed, no extra cooling, no ), no audio (mics, amps, speakers, codecs), 3499 MSRP
4. R5E - pure stills "economic" version, 45 MP, no video/audio recording; € 2499 MSRP

Maximum production efficiency, optimal choice for customers. It would also nicely demonstrate how few hybrid/video users really are willing to put their wallet where their demands are.


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## Etienne (Apr 21, 2020)

It's hard to believe what I am reading after all these years of waiting. 
But this is starting to look irresistible!


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## BillB (Apr 21, 2020)

xanbarksdale said:


> How do people still think this is going to be under $3500? You’ve got to be a lunatic to think it’s going to be that price!


Wishful thinking and unfamiliarity with costs that very few of us know much about do not make somebody a lunatic.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Apr 21, 2020)

bergstrom said:


> its one thing to buy the r5 , if you can even afford it, but the next cost is to buy a new desktop that can handle 8k and thats another $2000 +



$2k for an after burner card + 11k for the machine + whatever a 8k screen costs. In 6-10 years however, 8k will be edited on your smartphone.


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## BillB (Apr 21, 2020)

justaCanonuser said:


> It really was a mega-ugly Frankenstein design, with those piles of wheels on the top of it. In fact, they created a new Wizzard-of-wheels type of photography, but it never took off like e.g. the Lomography market.


Steam punk camera design isn’t for everybody, as Nikon found out.


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## SecureGSM (Apr 21, 2020)

Adventure Kid said:


> ya, you should have waited. lesson learned.


No, he should not switched to SONY back then. 
lesson learned.


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## SecureGSM (Apr 21, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Loss leading has been a very successful marketing strategy for many companies for years, selling an item below cost can be a very good business tool.


in an ever expanding or sufficiently broad market.

there is a better option than an aggressive discounting in current market conditions.


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## BillB (Apr 21, 2020)

For years, we had posts complaining that Canon was not putting good video in its cameras. Now we have posts complaining because the video in the camera will be too good. Read CR for the humor.


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## Alino (Apr 21, 2020)

I will wait for a R7 to replace my 7DII, it should be superstellar!


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## SecureGSM (Apr 21, 2020)

xanbarksdale said:


> How do people still think this is going to be under $3500? You’ve got to be a lunatic to think it’s going to be that price!


People still thinking it would be around US$3,750.00
How’s that sound to you?


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## Chris.Chapterten (Apr 21, 2020)

picperfect said:


> I fail to see the logic. As a non-video user I really have a hard time understanding why Canon only makes 1 version of R5 and puts their ultimate video specs into it, and at the same time launches C300 III and neither it nor C500 II (FF) at significantly higher prices comes with 8k video specs. Why would anyone buy those C cameras now?
> 
> Logic to me would have been multiple versions of a new R camera, all using same body shell. Akin to original Sony A7/S/R product strategy.
> e.g.
> ...


That sounds good in theory, but most of the work is already done regardless of whether the camera has video or not. The technology is already 'baked in' to the design of the camera, so why not take advantage of it and add the video features. For example 20FPS stills is great! And if that means you can do 30FPS Raw video with the same processor, why not go for it? I love strong video features personally.


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## SecureGSM (Apr 21, 2020)

Jim Corbett said:


> Are there any rumors about R5 taking photos?


Yeah, there is a shutter button somewhere. Right?


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## derpderp (Apr 21, 2020)

I've used both Sony and Canon recently. I must say that Canon has superior ergonomics, its jpeg images are more pleasing and its RF glass is phenomenal. Sony, on the other hand, has superior AF performance and its video capabilities are/were better.


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## Ozarker (Apr 21, 2020)

justaCanonuser said:


> It is just not a camera for those only wanting to shoot stills.


Sure it is.


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## picperfect (Apr 21, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Sure it is.



no. It is a video-optimized camera. A lot of video ballast for pure stills shooters and a high price to cross-subsidize the few who will really adequately use 8k video (today and tomorrow).


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## AccipiterQ (Apr 21, 2020)

padam said:


> The 42MP A7RII has been around since 2013 and even gone up to 61MP since then (And PCs have gotten much faster since then to cope with the files), so 45MP is pretty normal for a brand new camera in 2020 (and one made for resolution can go way beyond that) or there is the 20MP R6 where you can complain that the megapixel count is too low - even though the actual difference is not that significant as it will use a newer anti-aliasing filter.
> There used to be an option to shoot smaller resolution RAW in previous Canon cameras, but now there is essentially no benefit, so either shoot compressed raw to save file size or use the in-camera crop mode.
> Same with the ISO, the 20MP one will be better, but once the 45MP one is downscaled, there is not that much difference.


I don't think 45 is normal. Look at the 1dxiii or 5div. I'm not not worried about computing power, it's dynamic range and high iso performance. My point was that if you want something in a more traditional size that takes superior photos, like the 5div, where is the Canon mirrorless option?


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## CSD (Apr 21, 2020)

This is a system I built for someone editing/rendering 4k video and sometimes 8k within Da Vinci. excludes things like capture and sound cards but this will likely last for 3-4 years with upgrades. 






Part List - AMD Threadripper 3960X, GeForce RTX 2080 Ti, Fractal Design Define XL R2 ATX Full Tower - PCPartPicker


Part List - AMD Threadripper 3960X, GeForce RTX 2080 Ti, Fractal Design Define XL R2 ATX Full Tower




uk.pcpartpicker.com





Avoid anything Intel, and of course Adobe software both are awful for this kind of workload. So that gives you a good idea of a how much a system is likely to going to cost. This system isn't fully tricked out and there is aspects that can be improved.


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## Freddell (Apr 21, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


Whats the ISO range?


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## stochasticmotions (Apr 21, 2020)

This is the first Canon camera I have actually been excited about since the 5DII came out. Will be a good replacement for the 5DS and 5DIII that have been underused since I got the A7RIV and a great reason not to sell my 500f4 for an ultra expensive sony 600.


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## Ozarker (Apr 21, 2020)

picperfect said:


> no. It is a video-optimized camera. A lot of video ballast for pure stills shooters and a high price to cross-subsidize the few who will really adequately use 8k video (today and tomorrow).


You are wrong with the one sided view. Video and stills optimized. The sports and nature folks will love it. So will portrait and wedding photographers. Last I checked, in the stills world, portrait and wedding photographers are the biggest group. This camera has something for everyone who is looking to buy.


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## PureClassA (Apr 21, 2020)

picperfect said:


> no. It is a video-optimized camera. A lot of video ballast for pure stills shooters and a high price to cross-subsidize the few who will really adequately use 8k video (today and tomorrow).


It's a camera. Period. It will amply satisfy BOTH stills and motion picture shooters. I'm not trying to be rude about this, but what exactly is the ballast here in terms of cost? What physical component of this machine is stuck in for video that is price bloating it? 

Remember, this is the Canon Semi-Flagship, 5 Body successor. Or rather, the first NEW breed 5 Body in a MILC world.

The sensor would still be 45MP. The CPU would still be DIGIC X. The buffer would still be massive. The AF/DPAF would still be in there. Dual Card Slots. The menu system, ergonomics, etc... all there just the same for STILLS as VIDEO.

So the video features require an extra set of firmware that already exists for the most part and needs to be tweaked for this particular camera. So what?

And I hate to tell ya, VIDEO pros/people who desire a Canon 5 body as their work horse are NOT a small group. Granted they are not as big as STILLS guys, but they are sizable and growing. I have seen quite a few professional wedding crews film with multiple 5D bodies over the years.

Let's all be happy with this camera! Making it a real hybrid beast is better for everyone because Canon greatly expands its market for this model, which helps keeps the costs down.


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## Architect1776 (Apr 21, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> It's a camera. Period. It will amply satisfy BOTH stills and motion picture shooters. I'm not trying to be rude about this, but what exactly is the ballast here in terms of cost? What physical component of this machine is stuck in for video that is price bloating it?
> 
> Remember, this is the Canon Semi-Flagship, 5 Body successor. Or rather, the first NEW breed 5 Body in a MILC world.
> 
> ...



This camera, if as good as it looks, will substantially enlarge the video pros going to it. So that pool will not be as small as it is today because this camera does what no other in it's class can come close to doing.


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## picperfect (Apr 21, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> The sensor would still be 45MP. The CPU would be DIGIC X. The buffer would still be massive. The AF/DPAF would still be in there. Dual Card Slots. The menu system, ergonomics, etc... all there just the same for STILLS as VIDEO.



Sensor, electronics puieline (bandwidth!) needs a different, more costly layout to handle continued full-bore (8k) video capture. Not to mention extra cooling required. Does not come free of cost, both R&D as well as production cost per unit. Plus all the other hardware, firmware, software items *solely required* for video and audio capture: mics, speakers, audio amps, much more demanding signal processing headphone jack, CF Express slot [and cards, rather than just 2x SD UHS-II], licensing cost for video and audio codecs, bloated menu system (needs to be designed, programmed, tested! not free of cost!), and a whole lot more.

Extra capabilities and functionality always cost extra. There is no free lunch, although video/hybrid minority is pretending there is.



PureClassA said:


> VIDEO pros/people who desire a Canon 5 body as their work horse are NOT a small group. Granted they are not as big as STILLS guys, but they are sizable and growing



Yes, all fine and well. I have not the slightest problem with R5 specs per se. What irks me for many years now, that majority of stills shooters are *not* given any choice. We do not get any "stills optimized" cameras. Because all manufacturers are only runnign after the darn "we demand 4k/8k video IN EVERY camera" choir. Again, why not multiple versions of a basic camera model? Some fully hybrid, some video-centric, some stills-optimized?

Like with many cars - you can not only select different colors, but also whether it should have a strong or weaker engine, 2- or 4-wheel drive, etc. With camera makers it is as if all car companies would only offer fully blown SUVs. No small cars, no sedans, no regular limousines, no sports cars. Only "everything and the kitchen sink", "hybrid" SUVs. And that state of imaging gear market pisses me off. Especially when majority of stills shooters is forced to subsidize fancy video specs for a small minority who wants them.


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## Ozarker (Apr 21, 2020)

picperfect said:


> Sensor, electronics puieline (bandwidth!) needs a different, more costly layout to handle continued full-bore (8k) video capture. Not to mention extra cooling required. Does not come free of cost, both R&D as well as production cost per unit. Plus all the other hardware, firmware, software items *solely required* for video and audio capture: mics, speakers, audio amps, much more demanding signal processing headphone jack, CF Express slot [and cards, rather than just 2x SD UHS-II], licensing cost for video and audio codecs, bloated menu system (needs to be designed, programmed, tested! not free of cost!), and a whole lot more.
> 
> Extra capabilities and functionality always cost extra. There is no free lunch, although video/hybrid minority is pretending there is.
> 
> ...


How would you optimize for stills that a hybrid camera doesn't already accomplish. They have the same resolution and DR considerations.


----------



## Stone (Apr 21, 2020)

sanj said:


> 55 is YOUNG! Best wishes...



thank you Sanj! I never thought I'd see this day, my father worked every day of his life for 52 years and died 2 years after retirement. I promised myself and my daughters that I would not follow that path.


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## BillB (Apr 21, 2020)

picperfect said:


> Like with many cars - you can not only select different colors, but also whether it should have a strong or weaker engine, 2- or 4-wheel drive, etc. With camera makers it is as if all car companies would only offer fully blown SUVs. No small cars, no sedans, no regular limousines, no sports cars. Only "everything and the kitchen sink", "hybrid" SUVs. And that state of imaging gear market pisses me off. Especially when majority of stills shooters is forced to subsidize fancy video specs for a small minority who wants them.



Product differentiation makes sense when there is enough volume to spread the costs of differentiating the products which means that there has to be enough demand for the differentiated products. Apparently, Canon doesn’t think that is the case.


----------



## Stone (Apr 21, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> The thing is this: Professionals are not the lion's share that will support the market. They are a niche'. It is well heeled amateurs that support the market. There are far more of them, and for a number of them 8k will be meaningful. I notice you keep asking to see the work of others after they comment. Where is yours? Specifically, where are your videos? Where are your "feature films, whatever." You see, many do video and take photos purely for their own use and enjoyment. They don't need you to approve, disapprove, like, or decide whether or not they decide what they need. Canon obviously knows far more than you or I what the market needs, or will need, in the future. Personally, I like the fact that it appears Canon is getting ahead in the tech dept. That makes the camera a better "investment" and not requiring some to upgrade as soon as they would have. If you don't need it, fine. However, your deciding that others don't and then demanding to see their work so you can have a possible "gotcha" (in your own mind) is just plain rude. BTW: Nobody cares that you retire at 55 except you. That is completely meaningless to the conversation. Some people retire earlier than that (me) and others keep working into old age because they love what they do. Suggesting that people who buy this camera are fools with their money... *sigh* You should learn to respect that others have needs/wants that differ from your own. They don't have to justify that to you or anyone else.



Clearly I've struck a nerve with you, life is too short for internet squabbles. I stated my opinion, you may either accept it or not, others respectfully disagreed with me which I respect. The only point I'll refute is no one cares about my retirement when my mother, daughters & grandson all care about my retirement. Either way, I stated my retirement because I'm proud of myself for doing so and celebrating the fact that I'm not bothered by internet disagreements, they are such a miniscule things in the grander scheme of life. You then proceed to "one up" me by stating you have been even more successful, you clearly care and I thank you for it. I also celebrate your success and being retired younger than myself, you must have worked incredibly hard to do so. I ask to see peoples work because I'm a fan of photography & video, I love to see people envision and create things I've never done or just might not have been talented enough to do so, it's nothing more, nothing less. 10 years on this forum and I've never criticized anyone's interpretation of art, I'm simply a frugal fan.

I am not your antagonist and I will not be, seek easier prey as this is not what you want.

Cheers.....


----------



## Mars1954 (Apr 21, 2020)

Just wondering if they will include at introduction a 64 Gb CFexpress card and reader like they do with the 1DX Mark III


----------



## picperfect (Apr 21, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> How would you optimize for stills that a hybrid camera doesn't already accomplish. They have the same resolution and DR considerations.



no. While there is a "common ground", hybrid is always a compromise. Optimal parameters for moving images and stills images are not the same. Not for sensor, not for rest of camera.
"Stills optimized" would mean a camera with only basic video-enabled snesor for internal EVF feed [far less than FHD rez, even in today's best EVFs],. devoid of any and things only needed for video/audio capture. Less clutter, streamlined, less complex UI, easier to navigate menu systems. Easier/better weathersealed thanks to less holes for things like mics, speakers, connectors. Lower price and/or money spent on sensor with higher resolution and/or DR specs. And more.


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## BillB (Apr 21, 2020)

AccipiterQ said:


> I don't think 45 is normal. Look at the 1dxiii or 5div. I'm not not worried about computing power, it's dynamic range and high iso performance. My point was that if you want something in a more traditional size that takes superior photos, like the 5div, where is the Canon mirrorless option?


Well, there is the Canon R, so the questions would be what do you want that the R doesn’t have and how much would you be willing to pay for it.


----------



## picperfect (Apr 21, 2020)

BillB said:


> Well, there is the Canon R, so the questions would be what do you want that the R doesn’t have and how much would you be willing to pay for it.



new sensor, rather than the re-used 5D IV one, DR fully on par with Sony, 35-45 MP, 8 fps fast enough for my use. Plus a regular Canon EOS user interface rather than botched EOS R one; ideally with same "intelligent AF joystick" as in 1DX III. Overall compact form factor, ideally without central VF hump but rather a pop-up EVF (sort of like G5X III on FF steroids). New, same size but higher charge battery. Max. price? € 1999 - without audio/video capture.


----------



## padam (Apr 21, 2020)

AccipiterQ said:


> I don't think 45 is normal. Look at the 1dxiii or 5div. I'm not not worried about computing power, it's dynamic range and high iso performance. My point was that if you want something in a more traditional size that takes superior photos, like the 5div, where is the Canon mirrorless option?


The 1DX line is made for speed, not resolution so it can stay at 20MP.
With the 5D 'bloodline' (which is linked to the EOS R and EOS R5) it was 12, 20, 22, 30 and now 45 megapixels in this latest iteration.
And there is no backwards step in dynamic range or ISO in either of them, it is either slightly better or much better.
It is called moving with the times 
But if you want less megapixels, you get a camera with less megapixels, whether that is a new model, or just something older. 

Not so complicated, although grumbling in forums is still easier, as it is always possible no matter what is coming or when and keyboards are cheap


----------



## PureClassA (Apr 21, 2020)

picperfect said:


> Sensor, electronics puieline (bandwidth!) needs a different, more costly layout to handle continued full-bore (8k) video capture. Not to mention extra cooling required. Does not come free of cost, both R&D as well as production cost per unit. Plus all the other hardware, firmware, software items *solely required* for video and audio capture: mics, speakers, audio amps, much more demanding signal processing headphone jack, CF Express slot [and cards, rather than just 2x SD UHS-II], licensing cost for video and audio codecs, bloated menu system (needs to be designed, programmed, tested! not free of cost!), and a whole lot more.
> 
> Extra capabilities and functionality always cost extra. There is no free lunch, although video/hybrid minority is pretending there is.
> 
> ...



The combined sum of a basic (cheap) mic preamp/headphone amp plus the requisite jacks are of minimal costs. I doubt Canon has even $20 in parts (cost) between the two. It's not as if the mic preamps and headphone amps are of high quality in the DSLRs and MILCs. They are just there to receive signals. It's why people who shoot video on these bodies use external mics with their own separate power source and preamps to effectively bypass what's in the camera, otherwise they are recording audio externally in a dedicated device (like my Tascam DR70, which is all of about $199) and using the cheap $5 (if even that much) mic built into the camera purely for scratch audio to sync up to master audio in post. If the camera truly had some serious costs dedicated to physical video components, you'd have an XLR block on these like the cinema cameras with much higher end preamps with 24 bit ADC recording. You'd also have timecode, SDI outputs, etc... all the specific hardware, again, like on the Cinema line. 

The speeds and buffer depths and choice of CFExpress and SD are just as valuable for stills. We're talking 45MP here at 14bit RAW for stills. That is a TON of Data to sling at 20fps in electronic shutter mode. I have a 5DSR too. 50MP in 14bit RAW and that camera chokes at 5fps because the shutter and buffer and recording medium of the day just could not crank out any faster.

So the RAW capability on the video side is NOT 14 bit depth. It's going to be 12 or 10bit, like the 1DX3 which uses the same CPU and buffer (we THINK) as this R5. So the stills specs are NOT being bloated to accommodate video. The video (compared to stills) is being drawn down to suit, which still gives us fantastic video results. And if you want to spray bursts of 20fps in 14 bit RAW CR3 files, you BETTER be using that CFExpress slot because SD likely won't be able to keep up for very long ...if at all. Plus, CFEXpress is where things are going, so it only makes sense Canon puts it in this camera, same as the DX3.

SO at the end of the day, Canon hasn't made a "Stills Only" camera since the original 5D. And that isn't changing. It's simply too easy and too cheap to tack on a video feature set (the camera can already accommodate based on it's stills performance) when all the components are already there except for $10-20 in entry level audio parts and some firmware adjustments. So let's say that adds even $200-300 to the retail price? So what. That means Canon can sell maybe 25% more units than if they hadn't done it. Maybe even more than that with this new R5.

Or perhaps I should ask, how much price difference do you believe there would be were there NO video features whatsoever? Also bear in mind that with no video features and, in turn, the smaller potential market, how much would that alter the pricing?


----------



## PureClassA (Apr 21, 2020)

Mars1954 said:


> Just wondering if they will include at introduction a 64 Gb CFexpress card and reader like they do with the 1DX Mark III


A kit with a card and reader would not surprise me


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## usern4cr (Apr 21, 2020)

justaCanonuser said:


> OVF is good for wildlife, too, because you can observe e.g. a bird nest for hours through your tele lens without draining the battery with every look. Wildlife is 90+ % waiting until something interesting happens. So, with a ML you waste about 90 % of the battery or you may need to carry extra binoculars with you.


For birding you raised a very interesting point I hadn't thought of. If you are spending a very long looking through the OVF or EVF while waiting to take a picture then I would be fairly sure that a good OVF in daylight would be a far superior image to stare at than an EVF. With that said, however, I take that more as a challenge to the EVF makers to improve their displays so that they can equal (or better) the view of an OVF. But for the moment, you are right.

Regarding power consumption, I could see EVF draining more power. Or if they auto-shut off then you'd have an extra delay when you wanted to take a peek at the birds so that they would less convenient. Either way, that would be one more thing an OVF is better at.

Even with this all said, I only want an EVF. I don't want a flippin' mirror. So I'll take what I can get and be glad for the choices I have!


----------



## usern4cr (Apr 21, 2020)

picperfect said:


> I fail to see the logic. As a non-video user I really have a hard time understanding why Canon only makes 1 version of R5 and puts their ultimate video specs into it, and at the same time launches C300 III and neither it nor C500 II (FF) at significantly higher prices comes with 8k video specs. Why would anyone buy those C cameras now?
> 
> Logic to me would have been multiple versions of a new R camera, all using same body shell. Akin to original Sony A7/S/R product strategy.
> e.g.
> ...


I agree with the logic that Canon should come out with multiple versions of the R5, as long as they are all versions of the same camera with things disabled to increase sales. They could have 1 version with everything in it (as the R5 is now), 1 version with all still features and good video (without the most exceptional video features), and 1 version with just the stills features. Each would have a different price. They're all the same camera & menu system. When they do come out with a 85MP sensor they could then do the same thing over again but brand it "version 2" or give it a new R#.

For the record, I take stills almost all of the time. I would much prefer to buy their version that disabled the video if they dropped the price significantly. In fact my preference is to have 2 identical camera bodies with 2 different lenses to that I can go out with just that and not swap lenses. If I got 2 bodies without video I'd save even more money. If I got one of each I'd still save money and the menu system would be identical in each, with the exception that the video menus wouldn't be in one of them. That would be heaven, and Canon would make more money, and those wanting the best video would also benefit. In fact we'd all benefit by having an increased number of bodies (& thus lenses, too) sold which makes Canon more profitable and able to lower their prices.

It would be even better if I decided down the road that I'd like to enable their great video features in my "stills R5" version. I could just pay extra and download the firmware update and then have the "full R5" version at the touch of a button. More money for Canon. Those wanting "good enough" video could save money now, and upgrade later when the stellar video features were more commonplace. Everybody wins!


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## unfocused (Apr 21, 2020)

justaCanonuser said:


> well, sometimes a bit of silliness is liberating, in particular if you discuss rumors . Life is serious enough.


Very true. But then silliness is best when it is funny and creative. I find most of these memes fail on both counts.


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## Memdroid (Apr 21, 2020)

This is interesting. An actual R5 and a sneak peak on the menu system.


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## cayenne (Apr 21, 2020)

AccipiterQ said:


> Honestly, what's the Canon camera for those of us that want to take high-quality photos, but that don't want 40MP+ files? Or rather, what WILL it be in the mirrorless line? It seems like this is more of a replacement for the 5DSr, as opposed to a 5DV. All these specs are aimed at people who shoot video, but a DSLR is never going to be able to match their cinema-line of cameras, and with the specs on the r5 it's going to probably not be THAT much cheaper than the lower end cinema products Canon offers. I know people are psyched that shoot video, but why wouldn't you just buy a video camera if that's what you need? I'm genuinely curious. For my part...I just want something that's mirrorless, between ~25 and ~35 MP and is a step up in quality from the original R. Basically a 5DV in mirrorless format. I don't think that's asking much, the use-case for this r5 is going to be pretty close to that of the 5DSr as near as I can tell, as opposed to an every-day unit like the 5DIV or 1DXiii. I can't imagine the dynamic range or low-light performance on the r5 is going to be able to match the 1DXiii or the 5DIV (or even get close)....



Well, let me tell you a bit about my story.

I bought my 5D3 back when it came out...my first ever DSLR. I had been with some friends on a local shoot where the crew there shot with a 5D2.

I was amazed to see what they could do with that and the lenses and the 5D3 was coming out about then.

I seriously bought it just to try to learn to do fairly high end videos.

Over time, I learned more about photography....and went on to be chosen to be on staff for many large New Orleans festivals and I"m now working on other projects.

Hell, I've progressed into MF film shooting recently, but that's another story.

But anyway, I have some disposable cash, but not an endless supply. I'll readily drop $4k-$5K on a camera that I figure gives me the best bang for the buck on video AND stills. I don't want to buy 2 cameras. I actually had been looking to possibly buy into the Blackmagic 6K camera, but was holding off after seeing Canon working on the mirrorless stuff....so, have been biding my time and saving my pickles and dimes.

And I'm hearing these numbers being thrown around, my guess is that it possibly may be as low as about $3999.
I hear folks saying I can't get it if it is over $3500.....and I'm thinking "seriously, is $500 going to make or break your decision on buying what on paper is looking like a game changing camera?"

I mean sure, not everyone has a lot of disposable income, but let's not discard the fact that photography is NOT a cheap hobby or poor mans game...at least not if you're even remotely on the current edge of products.

The nice thing is, the new R5 body, with what I hear is a good quality adapter will work with all our existing EF mount lenses you've invested in over the years.
So, while the body might be a little pricey initially....you don't have to buy into all new glass for it right off to bat.

I'm the type that doesn't tend to buy piddly shit, all the time....I save my money, and once or twice a year, I'll drop a significant chunk of change on something I really like that is high quality and is the best I can possibly afford for said category of item.

Sure, I'd rather spend $3500 on this R5, and if it comes out about that price, I'll do something I rarely do and likely be a pre-order, early buyer.

I usually wait a bit before I test the temp of the water.

If it is $4K or a bit higher, well....I can be patient....and wait to see the reviews....maybe even let the inevitable firmware upgrades come out to fix any perceived 'bugs' that early adopters come across.

But I will get one. My 5D3 is still in great shape...and I'd be happy to keep it as 2nd camera for a long time to come....

But anyway....that's my Canon story....and there's bound to be a lot of varied interests folks like myself, that ARE looking for bang for the buck performance on quality video AND stills.

I am...even tho still photography was a late start for me when I got into this all. It's a big part of me now tho.


HTH,

cayenne


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## PureClassA (Apr 21, 2020)

picperfect said:


> I fail to see the logic. As a non-video user I really have a hard time understanding why Canon only makes 1 version of R5 and puts their ultimate video specs into it, and at the same time launches C300 III and neither it nor C500 II (FF) at significantly higher prices comes with 8k video specs. Why would anyone buy those C cameras now?



Two entirely different animal kingdoms here. Relating to my other post, it's a matter of specific design for extremely demanding motion picture needs. The sensors are designed for video, like the Super 35mm in the new C300. Specialized CPUs engineered expressly for motion picture capture. A much broader variety of professional video codecs using various bit depths. More robust RAW options. the full array of powerful Canon Log Gamma options. Ability to use interchangeable lens mounts like PL. Built in high grade glass variable ND filters. Professional grade XLR jacked Mic preamps with independent gain and 48v Phantom Power on board with 24bit/96KHz recording internally. Simultaneous Multi format recording when recording a master in RAW and a side-car with Proxy files for editing and color grading separately in post. SDI, TimeCode, Multi-Monitor outputs... I can go on and on... 

Are these features MOST video guys use? If full time pros, then YES. If average semi-pro or hobbyists? Nope.

However, I will guarantee you right now, that you'll have a LOT of C500 Mk2 users and C300 Mk3 users gobble up the R5 because it will compliment those cinema bodies SO SO well as a B cam or for shooting in tight spaces that dont lend themselves to a full sized rig. And that is what a lot of pro users have wanted. It's why you'll find a lot of guys who use the big Sony cameras also carry around an Alpha MILC too.

So yeah, it's an ultimate spec list for a MILC body for sure! BUT, it still can NOT replace what a comparable Cinema camera can do for the professionals using them on a daily basis. The R5, for those guys, will however be one hell of a compliment to their arsenal.


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## usern4cr (Apr 21, 2020)

Memdroid said:


> This is interesting. An actual R5 and a sneak peak on the menu system.


Thank you for posting this!!! Their menu system looks pretty good to me, and I love seeing the fully articulating screen (which is what I must have and is one reason I didn't buy Sony).

I think the R5 will be great enough for me to jump into their system with 1 body and 2 lenses. Then I'll wait for the 85MP body to come out to buy the 2nd body so I can have 2 cameras at the ready and not change lenses.

Yee-haw! Good times!


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## transpo1 (Apr 21, 2020)

This is awesome. So happy that Canon is finally including state-of-the-art video features in a stills camera and pushing the envelopes to compete and bypass competitors' video features. 

I may be forced to jump into this system and leave my Fuji behind, even though R5 also stands for a system entry price of $5k with a lens plus accessories


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## privatebydesign (Apr 21, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> in an ever expanding or sufficiently broad market.
> 
> there is a better option than an aggressive discounting in current market conditions.


True, but I was just pointing out that the comment _"Maybe. But selling a product below cost isn't exactly good business."_ isn't actually accurate. Do I think Canon would sell bodies as a loss leader? Not really.


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## PureClassA (Apr 21, 2020)

By the way, let's talk about this DUAL GAIN ISO on the C300 MkIII...

We had forum discussion on this a few years back talking about "What IF Canon could readout each diode in the DPAF system at different ISOs to produce some insane DR?" Well... they did it. 16+ stops on that new sensor.

How long before we see that trickle down to the RF MILC bodies? The 1RX next year? A R5 Mk II? Think how nuts that would be??


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## TracerHD (Apr 21, 2020)

I'm confused about the description:

*Be the filmmaker*
Commit your best work to stunning 8K video and relish the prospect of exciting new possibilities for creative capture. Offering full sensor width 8K internal and external RAW recording at up to 29.97fps and 4K at up to 119.88fps* in either 4:2:2 10bit Canon Log or 4:2:2 10bit HDR PQ, EOS R5 allows you to fully expand the world of filmmaking and explore dynamic new ways of telling your story.

*External recording is available up to 4K 59.94 fps only

__________________
"full sensor width 8K internal"
"external RAW recording at up to 29.97fps"
"External recording is available up to 4K 59.94 fps only"


nevertheless the R5 sounds amazing!





__





Canon EOS R5 - Cameras - Canon Europe


Revolutionary 8K video performance with unparalleled combined image stabilisation mirrorless camera.




www.canon-europe.com


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## cayenne (Apr 21, 2020)

picperfect said:


> no. It is a video-optimized camera. A lot of video ballast for pure stills shooters and a high price to cross-subsidize the few who will really adequately use 8k video (today and tomorrow).


As someone else on the thread posited, the video portions are largely software related....
And if nothing else, the higher video is likely pushing the hardware so that still photo capabilities are going to be pulled along with it.

Having a stills only camera, for such a niche market, would likely lose the volume sales that help a hybrid camera over time...and make your stills only camera more $$$ since they'd not be selling as many.

And again, as someone else mentioned, the aftermarket for a crippled stills only camera in this day in age would likely be zilch.


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## PureClassA (Apr 21, 2020)

TracerHD said:


> I'm confused about the description:
> 
> *Be the filmmaker*
> Commit your best work to stunning 8K video and relish the prospect of exciting new possibilities for creative capture. Offering full sensor width 8K internal and external RAW recording at up to 29.97fps and 4K at up to 119.88fps* in either 4:2:2 10bit Canon Log or 4:2:2 10bit HDR PQ, EOS R5 allows you to fully expand the world of filmmaking and explore dynamic new ways of telling your story.
> ...


What part?


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## Pape (Apr 21, 2020)

justaCanonuser said:


> OVF is good for wildlife, too, because you can observe e.g. a bird nest for hours through your tele lens without draining the battery with every look. Wildlife is 90+ % waiting until something interesting happens. So, with a ML you waste about 90 % of the battery or you may need to carry extra binoculars with you.


I rather watch wildlife with 10x magnification than try see little details on OVF. Always can buy more batterys  
I guess other peoples manage sneak more close than me


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## David_E (Apr 21, 2020)

clearlyed said:


> *I think this*
> 
> Canon shooters - You just struck gold
> Other shooters -You are fine and shouldn't switch.
> ...


You’re betting that the R5 will put all other camera manufacturers out of business. How much would you like to wager on that? How about this: if, one year after the R5 release, Canon is the only camera manufacturer in the world, I pay for _your_ R5. Otherwise, you pay for _my_ R5.


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## davidhfe (Apr 21, 2020)

picperfect said:


> no. It is a video-optimized camera. A lot of video ballast for pure stills shooters and a high price to cross-subsidize the few who will really adequately use 8k video (today and tomorrow).



You're looking at this the wrong way. Canon didn't set out to build a video-optimized anything. They engineered the best set of components they could and then build the features based off the capabilities of those components. This is an *imaging-optimized* camera that doesn't force you to make decisions about what gear you're going to carry today. They've hit the sweet spot in so many use cases:
- Really nice "all-round" resolution for 2020 and beyond. This is the only place you might say they designed for video, and it's a decision that works great for many still shooters!
- Fast! If that means silent shooting, high speed electronic shutter, or video you're covered.
- A 12 fps shutter on a full frame camera! In 2012 you had to buy a 1DX for that sort of performance. Amazing what you can do when you remove the mirror.
- My guess is the auto focus on this will blow folks out of the water regardless of how you're capturing images

I'm not saying it's the perfect camera for everyone, but it's super in-line with what we've come to expect (or have wanted to expect) out of the 5 series. It seems like a lot of "photo-only" voices are just unrealistic about how unit costs and R&D works. And I get that some folks need more megapixels—speed vs resolution is a *totally reasonable tradeoff to make*. Most of ya'll are being realistic about it but I definitely feel there's this _minority contingent here_ that thinks canon can magically drop 8K video and produce a 150mp sensor that still shoots 20fps for $2000 with 20 stops of DR.


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## koenkooi (Apr 21, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> [..]
> The speeds and buffer depths and choice of CFExpress and SD are just as valuable for stills. We're talking 45MP here at 14bit RAW for stills. That is a TON of Data to sling at 20fps in electronic shutter mode. [..]



The 1DX3 is 12-bit RAW in all electronic shutter modes to combat rolling shutter, so I expect the 20fps on the R5 to be 12-bit as well. Still a massive amount of data.


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## privatebydesign (Apr 21, 2020)

If I was Canon I'd make every 'influencer' actually buy their own R5 rather than send out freebies and long term loaners. This thing has created more buzz than I can ever remember amongst the cynicalati.


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## Del Paso (Apr 21, 2020)

justaCanonuser said:


> The Leica president said yes, and the result was the Leica M10-D without even any display to chimp (pay more for less)


Porsche's strategy as well....
And it works...


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## PureClassA (Apr 21, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> The 1DX3 is 12-bit RAW in all electronic shutter modes to combat rolling shutter, so I expect the 20fps on the R5 to be 12-bit as well. Still a massive amount of data.


12 bit RAW in video. 14 bit in Stills far as I know. Where did you see 12bit RAW at 20fps electronic/silent shutter??


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## Del Paso (Apr 21, 2020)

justaCanonuser said:


> The R5 is an Anti-Sony-weapon, so specs might be more important than taking photos


It's kind of an 88 PAK, indeed !


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## privatebydesign (Apr 21, 2020)

Del Paso said:


> Porsche's strategy as well....
> And it works...


If your branding and clientele support that business model, but very few do, ask Nikon how that strategy worked for the Df...


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## picperfect (Apr 21, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> _minority contingent here_ that thinks canon can magically drop 8K video and produce a 150mp sensor that still shoots 20fps for $2000 with 20 stops of DR.



wrong. you can write all you want, 4k and 8k video does not come for free but causes significant additional cost compared to a stills camera. 

And to repeat, i don't want an unrealistic camera, but [in addition to all the "hybrid" cameras] at least *one* realistic, pure stills FF camera with 35-45 MP, 6-8 fps, good DR, without any video/audio clutter (except internal low rez feed for EVF), at an affordable price - e.g. 1999


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## bmfotonet (Apr 21, 2020)

herein2020 said:


> It's not that bad, and actually if you use PP you do not want a Xeon processor (found that out the hard way). I have a Core I9 CPU, 64GB of RAM, NVME project storage, and an SSD drive for cache all bundled into an HP Z4, and an older 980 TI GPU, total build I think around $3500. I think Davinci Resolve will have no problems with this footage and if it does that's what proxy files are for. If you really can't afford to upgrade then use proxys on import and go do something else for a few hours while they are created.



Just out of curiosity what is the issue with Xeon processors and Premiere Pro?

I owned an HP Z4 a few years ago with a Xeon processor that I used for an IT lab workstation before everything moved to the cloud. I used it to run an entire virtual environment with lots of VMs. I never tried editing video with it.


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## Ozarker (Apr 21, 2020)

Stone said:


> Clearly I've struck a nerve with you, life is too short for internet squabbles. I stated my opinion, you may either accept it or not, others respectfully disagreed with me which I respect. The only point I'll refute is no one cares about my retirement when my mother, daughters & grandson all care about my retirement. Either way, I stated my retirement because I'm proud of myself for doing so and celebrating the fact that I'm not bothered by internet disagreements, they are such a miniscule things in the grander scheme of life. You then proceed to "one up" me by stating you have been even more successful, you clearly care and I thank you for it. I also celebrate your success and being retired younger than myself, you must have worked incredibly hard to do so. I ask to see peoples work because I'm a fan of photography & video, I love to see people envision and create things I've never done or just might not have been talented enough to do so, it's nothing more, nothing less. 10 years on this forum and I've never criticized anyone's interpretation of art, I'm simply a frugal fan.
> 
> I am not your antagonist and I will not be, seek easier prey as this is not what you want.
> 
> Cheers.....


One up you? Far from it. Some people get sidelined early. Retirement isn't always by choice. Neither are tax rules that prevent access to a lifetime of savings without huge penalties.


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## koenkooi (Apr 21, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> 12 bit RAW in video. 14 bit in Stills far as I know. Where did you see 12bit RAW at 20fps electronic/silent shutter??


I the user manual at the end, it has a table with all modes and limitations.

See:






First 1D X III RAW files?


Now more than ever before, the restricted AF area of the DSLR is going to irk the shooter. You have this full screen AF capability that's awesome and then you turn around and use similar except it's optical and restricted to the centre, and .... you say to yourself, isn't this wonderful (I...




www.canonrumors.com


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## herein2020 (Apr 21, 2020)

bmfotonet said:


> Just out of curiosity what is the issue with Xeon processors and Premiere Pro?
> 
> I owned an HP Z4 a few years ago with a Xeon processor that I used for an IT lab workstation before everything moved to the cloud. I used it to run an entire virtual environment with lots of VMs. I never tried editing video with it.



I had endless frustrations with a fully loaded Dell 7910 (Dual Xeon processors, 256GB of memory, quad NVME card, tiered SSD storage, 980TI GPU) and still could not edit 4K 60FPS LongGOP video footage in PP without proxies. Opened tickets with Adobe, wrote test result after test result on the Adobe forums; finally some Adobe Engineer flat out admitted that PP is not optimized for LongGOP (already figured that out) but also that Xeon processors while fantastic for things like virtualization and server services simply have too high of a timing latency for PP since PP does most of its work with the CPU, vs. DR which uses the GPU. For realtime editing playback of 4K LongGOP in PP you need lower CPU timing latency which Xeons are not built for.

He said one of the latest i7s would have been a better solution than dual Xeons. Based on Puget Systems extensive tests, I ended up with a Z4 with an Intel Core i9-7940X which their tests demonstrated was the perfect CPU for PP. Ironically I now use DR which barely touches the CPU.


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## sanj (Apr 21, 2020)

tpatana said:


> The more I scroll through your website, the more I'm intrigued to hear your story about photography, like how did you start and what all cool things happened along the way to get you all those cool shots and videos you have at your page.


AAAA. Thanks. I am full on revising my website now. I so needed this encouragement. Email me and we will figure a way to connect. 
[email protected]


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## davidhfe (Apr 21, 2020)

picperfect said:


> wrong. you can write all you want, 4k and 8k video does not come for free but causes significant additional cost compared to a stills camera.
> 
> And to repeat, i don't want an unrealistic camera, but [in addition to all the "hybrid" cameras] at least *one* realistic, pure stills FF camera with 35-45 MP, 6-8 fps, good DR, without any video/audio clutter (except internal low rez feed for EVF), at an affordable price - e.g. 1999



OK so there are two things here:
- Wanting to pay less to get fewer photo features. Lower MP, less fps, likely decreased AF capability, but cheaper. Totally reasonable, but that's not really where the 5D line has typically hit?
vs
- Thinking the video features are compromising the stills capability or price of the R5. The general consensus is whatever those features add in terms of cost are more than made up by additional sales. And most critically, the *video features make for better photo features, too.*

We all have different use cases, but *for me personally I *draw a straight line between fast read/processing and things I really want, like:
- Class leading AF
- 12/20 shooting
- Usable silent modes

If I'm paying for the above anyways for the stills features I want, I'd really want to get every capability out of the camera possible.


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## sanj (Apr 21, 2020)

justaCanonuser said:


> Yeah, people can even crop the eyes only of their cats in their cat vids . But irony aside, the R5 is a dedicated pro tool and there is no question that the film/video industry will start using it. I think what Canon does with the R5 is logical. It is just not a camera for those only wanting to shoot stills.


I think it is great for stills too. I will use it for both. But will buy it only when the market opens up.


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## sanj (Apr 21, 2020)

picperfect said:


> no. It is a video-optimized camera. A lot of video ballast for pure stills shooters and a high price to cross-subsidize the few who will really adequately use 8k video (today and tomorrow).


Nope. It is a super camera for stills. What is wrong with it? Price? Ah. We do not know that yet and if you find a cheaper camera for still than this, you can buy!


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## sanj (Apr 21, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> For birding you raised a very interesting point I hadn't thought of. If you are spending a very long looking through the OVF or EVF while waiting to take a picture then I would be fairly sure that a good OVF in daylight would be a far superior image to stare at than an EVF. With that said, however, I take that more as a challenge to the EVF makers to improve their displays so that they can equal (or better) the view of an OVF. But for the moment, you are right.
> 
> Regarding power consumption, I could see EVF draining more power. Or if they auto-shut off then you'd have an extra delay when you wanted to take a peek at the birds so that they would less convenient. Either way, that would be one more thing an OVF is better at.
> 
> Even with this all said, I only want an EVF. I don't want a flippin' mirror. So I'll take what I can get and be glad for the choices I have!


I have spent hours in hides - on the ground and on trees. Tell you this: It is NOT comfortable to sit with an eye glued to the viewfinder. It gets very difficult after a while. MUCH better to sit easier and view the action on LCD. Batteries can be changed easily when they go low on power.


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## herein2020 (Apr 21, 2020)

picperfect said:


> wrong. you can write all you want, 4k and 8k video does not come for free but causes significant additional cost compared to a stills camera.
> 
> And to repeat, i don't want an unrealistic camera, but [in addition to all the "hybrid" cameras] at least *one* realistic, pure stills FF camera with 35-45 MP, 6-8 fps, good DR, without any video/audio clutter (except internal low rez feed for EVF), at an affordable price - e.g. 1999


You keep skipping the law of economics....lower demand means higher price to achieve ROI. So few people would want such a niche product that all of the cost savings that you think you would gain with such a camera would be overcome by the prices needed to achieve ROI.

Also, this is 2020, I know a lot of people here might hate me for saying this but...stills are going the way of the 8 track player. The younger generation is growing up with YouTube, Netflix, HBO, etc. etc, and "influencers". They want to see, hear, and watch what is happening on their tiny cell phone screens. Stills are best enjoyed as prints or life sized displays; modern consumers don't print, they don't buy prints, and they have less than an 8sec attention span.

Camera manufacturers know all of this and they know video is more important now than ever; producing a camera without video is a sure way to fail. Most of my customers find me looking for stills, hire me because I also do video, and end up recommending me because I found a way to do both at their event or they decide their cell phones are good enough for stills and just want a "good video" to post on their social media of their birthday party, wedding, night out, graduation, ...insert activity here...

The other part you are skipping is that video is just a series of stills taken at some frame rate fast enough to not stutter...and compressed in a codec other than JPG. So yes, the architecture for video vs stills is nearly identical and as others have stated, the few additional audio components are negligible from a price perspective. I am quite sure if Canon or any manufacturer thought they could actually make money on a stills only camera they would have produced one by now.

If you want to look at what a video only camera looks like and the pricing there, then look no farther than the Cinema line to see what dedicated (read costly) video hardware actually looks like.


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## Stone (Apr 21, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> One up you? Far from it. Some people get sidelined early. Retirement isn't always by choice. Neither are tax rules that prevent access to a lifetime of savings without huge penalties.



Then that is a tragedy that someone who has spent a lifetime working does not deserve. I respect the dignity of work, I would not wish that upon anyone, my apologies for misunderstanding the situation.


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## yeahright (Apr 21, 2020)

picperfect said:


> wrong. you can write all you want, 4k and 8k video does not come for free but causes significant additional cost compared to a stills camera.
> 
> And to repeat, i don't want an unrealistic camera, but [in addition to all the "hybrid" cameras] at least *one* realistic, pure stills FF camera with 35-45 MP, 6-8 fps, good DR, without any video/audio clutter (except internal low rez feed for EVF), at an affordable price - e.g. 1999


I think you completely overestimate the market of those wanting to buy a purely stills optimized camera that is essentially equal to that R5 but with video features removed. A large part of the market for a 5-series camera wants/needs video features anyway, another large part of the market has enough money to spend not to care about $1000 oder $1500 less in price. Then there are those that do not need top of the line or are happy enough with older models, they can buy an R, an RP, or soon an R6. So who's there to buy the purely stills optimized camera? Speaking for myself, I have never used video in my 5D4, and I never intend to, because I am not interested in video at all. Still, given the choice between an R5 *including* video features at 3.500,- and a - stills-wise - identical R5 without video at 2.000,-, I would almost certainly opt for the full package, fullly aware that I will never use the feature set that costs me 1.500,- extra. Rational decision? Of course not. But I believe that in the portion of the market that would be perfectly served with the stills-only package (because they truly don't need video but want top-of-the-line stills performance), still only a small minority would actually buy it.


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## PureClassA (Apr 21, 2020)

herein2020 said:


> You keep skipping the law of economics....lower demand means higher price to achieve ROI. So few people would want such a niche product that all of the cost savings that you think you would gain with such a camera would be overcome by the prices needed to achieve ROI.
> 
> Also, this is 2020, I know a lot of people here might hate me for saying this but...stills are going the way of the 8 track player. The younger generation is growing up with YouTube, Netflix, HBO, etc. etc, and "influencers". They want to see, hear, and watch what is happening on their tiny cell phone screens. Stills are best enjoyed as prints or life sized displays; modern consumers don't print, they don't buy prints, and they have less than an 8sec attention span.
> 
> ...



Yes. That's what I was trying to explain earlier. You target an established price point in a mature, well-known market, and you create a product to appeal to the broadest user base possible. If I can create a single product manufacturing schedule instead of two, I can lower costs on multiple fronts while increasing my profit margins and sales volume. Everyone wins. Stills shooters will have a fantastic stills camera. Video shooters will have a fantastic small body video machine. Everyone wins.


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## herein2020 (Apr 21, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> Yes. That's what I was trying to explain earlier. You target an established price point in a mature, well-known market, and you create a product to appeal to the broadest user base possible. If I can create a single product manufacturing schedule instead of two, I can lower costs on multiple fronts while increasing my profit margins and sales volume. Everyone wins. Stills shooters will have a fantastic stills camera. Video shooters will have a fantastic small body video machine. Everyone wins.


Exactly, another point a lot of people seem to be missing is that these announcements were made as a part of Canon's NAB Show (National Association of Broadcasters) we are lucky we got any tidbits on the R5 at all; the fact that they were video focused should be expected.

I am absolutely certain the R5 will also take fantastic stills, so for the stills shooters your time will come hopefully sometime soon. Personally I would love to see a synch speed over 1/200, an option for a 5:4 crop ratio in camera so that I can stop guessing at what the "Instagrammed" version of the image will look like when I deliver the social media versions to the customer, and built in time lapse features since I have never understood why I need an external intervalometer for time lapses.

I probably won't even buy the R5 anytime soon, I still love my OVF and my 5D IV, I'm more interested in the R6 as a possible GH5 replacement for video.


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## Graphic.Artifacts (Apr 21, 2020)

Some people posting on this forum seem to think that this camera has been spec'd around 8k video ability. I'd say the opposite is true. The camera was spec'd around the need for a high resolution 45MP sensor to please stills shooters. 8K readout is a necessary (evil) result of having a high rez senor. Not the driver.

If 8K was something that was primarily of benefit to video shooters it would be offered in Canon's cinema line and it's not. Personally I would have been very happy with a video centric MILC with the s35 sensor from the new C300. But we aren't going to get that because Canon is running a business and it doesn't fit in their business plan. We don't all get what we want. I guess I can make the 8K sensor work but I don't particularly want/need it for video. It will make the camera much more attractive as an upgrade to my 5D Mark IV for stills. The idea that the spec's of this camera are somehow an unfair burden on stills shooter defies logic.

You didn't get exactly the "purist" stills camera you want? Nobody cares. Get over it.


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## peters (Apr 21, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> It's also the LOWER PHOTOSITE COUNT of the 1DxMk3 (20 megapixels) which SHOULD give better low light performance and higher dynamic range than the smaller photosites of the Canon R5.


Thats true. Though I must say, in reality this apears to be less and less true. I used the 1DX II and the 5D IV for quite some time alongside each other Tough the 1DX II got also way less pixels, I never noticed much of difference in lowlight. The AF is a bit better and the bigger viewfinder with the illuminated Points (in Servo) is nicer - but the quality in low light was in my eyes pretty much the same as the 5D IV. 

I agree with your other points =)


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## tmroper (Apr 21, 2020)

Not that it's intentional, but the timing could work out to be great, too. I think a lot of people aren't in a spending mood right now for obvious reasons, but they will be at some point. And the release of this R5 might coincide with that point when things get going again.


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## njohnson (Apr 21, 2020)

I am saying this without actually knowing unit sales of their cameras but to me it would make more business sense to sell it for ~$3,500 vs ~$4,500, reach a larger audience which will ultimately purchase more lenses, accessories and service. 

This is one of those cameras that transcends video and stills and can really push people to migrate to Canon.


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## cayenne (Apr 21, 2020)

herein2020 said:


> I had endless frustrations with a fully loaded Dell 7910 (Dual Xeon processors, 256GB of memory, quad NVME card, tiered SSD storage, 980TI GPU) and still could not edit 4K 60FPS LongGOP video footage in PP without proxies. Opened tickets with Adobe, wrote test result after test result on the Adobe forums; finally some Adobe Engineer flat out admitted that PP is not optimized for LongGOP (already figured that out) but also that Xeon processors while fantastic for things like virtualization and server services simply have too high of a timing latency for PP since PP does most of its work with the CPU, vs. DR which uses the GPU. For realtime editing playback of 4K LongGOP in PP you need lower CPU timing latency which Xeons are not built for.
> 
> He said one of the latest i7s would have been a better solution than dual Xeons. Based on Puget Systems extensive tests, I ended up with a Z4 with an Intel Core i9-7940X which their tests demonstrated was the perfect CPU for PP. Ironically I now use DR which barely touches the CPU.




Hence another good reason to get off the Adobe bandwagon if at all possible.

Take a look at using Davinci Resolve instead of PP on that hardware and I'm guessing you'll have no problems.

PP is bad in that, as I understand it and your engineer admitted, they don't for some reason take advantage of your GPU(s) like other NLE's are starting to do more and more.


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## PureClassA (Apr 21, 2020)

cayenne said:


> Hence another good reason to get off the Adobe bandwagon if at all possible.
> 
> Take a look at using Davinci Resolve instead of PP on that hardware and I'm guessing you'll have no problems.
> 
> PP is bad in that, as I understand it and your engineer admitted, they don't for some reason take advantage of your GPU(s) like other NLE's are starting to do more and more.


Yeah unfortunately Adobe is way behind FCPX and Davinci with certain codecs. Best bet is to either shoot IN or convert through media encoder to Apple ProRes. This is the main reason I shoot to a Ninja V. ProRes HQ right out the gate, no painful file conversions. Smooth editing of 4K with no lag and chop even in Adobe


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## seasonascent (Apr 21, 2020)

David_E said:


> Bingo. I'm waiting for one of these people who are fired up up over the video performance to post a link to their feature film, documentary, nature video, or whatever. My suspicion is that their hobby is reading and criticizing DSLR video specs. And maybe making videos of their cute cats for Facebook.
> 
> M5, RP, 6D Mark II, 5D Mark IV. *I make still photographs, mostly.*


I film weddings and I definitely fall into the category of someone who is fired up over the video specs. I'm transitioning to making 4k the standard I deliver films to clients and the R5 will surely join my arsenal. One thing I'm real mindful of is these films are an investment, and I'd like to future proof them as much as possible. My clients grandkids will likely be viewing these videos one day, and what will the tech be then? Will they be viewing on 8k tv's? I'd love to think that my films still hold up 50 years from now on the IQ front.
Happy to share my portfolio if it interests you.


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## Peer (Apr 21, 2020)

Pape said:


> yeah they may decided 20mpix is enough for photos



Well, with 8K video you are actually shooting 33 megapixels stills, and 30 of them every second. 

-- peer


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## herein2020 (Apr 21, 2020)

cayenne said:


> Hence another good reason to get off the Adobe bandwagon if at all possible.
> 
> Take a look at using Davinci Resolve instead of PP on that hardware and I'm guessing you'll have no problems.
> 
> PP is bad in that, as I understand it and your engineer admitted, they don't for some reason take advantage of your GPU(s) like other NLE's are starting to do more and more.


Yes that's what I was saying I use DR now (Davinci Resolve) and made the full switch about 2 months ago. My last hold up was AfterEffects and I took some crash courses on YouTube on DR's node editing. I'm loving DR now...already cancelled the video portion of my Adobe subscription.

I tried DR years ago and as an NLE it was terrible, but used to use it for color grading until the workflow got too cumbersome. I have no doubt DR will be able to handle H.265 and if I need to upgrade it will probably just be to get a better video card vs a whole new system.


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## herein2020 (Apr 21, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> Yeah unfortunately Adobe is way behind FCPX and Davinci with certain codecs. Best bet is to either shoot IN or convert through media encoder to Apple ProRes. This is the main reason I shoot to a Ninja V. ProRes HQ right out the gate, no painful file conversions. Smooth editing of 4K with no lag and chop even in Adobe


I've thought about that, but for me I really like recording to two card slots to have two copies of the footage at all times and the events I shoot singlehandedly are absolutely pure chaos at times. I don't carry a single extra piece of equipment that I don't have to especially if it takes batteries. I've had events where I'm running 3 cameras, capturing audio, shooting photography, and grabbing snippets of handheld video b-roll in between shooting stills. An external recorder is definitely not going to be a part of that scenario.


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## Fischer (Apr 21, 2020)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> I guess I can make the 8K sensor work but I don't particularly want/need it for video. It will make the camera much more attractive as an upgrade to my 5D Mark IV for stills. The idea that the spec's of this camera are somehow an unfair burden on stills shooter defies logic.


What I find so very amusing are all the photographers here and elsewhere that used to say that 50 MPIX was “far too much” and that no one needed that many megapixels for anything - who will be storming out to get this camera.

A paradox repeated every 3 or 4 years as people upgrade from one to the next edition of digital cameras.


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## toenails (Apr 21, 2020)

Canon making 2020 a little brighter. But serious question, how well will the battery will hold up while shooting at those specs? will probably get less than 1 hour of use shooting in 8K Raw. Hopefully they will not cripple with recording limits.


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## peters (Apr 22, 2020)

Fischer said:


> What I find so very amusing are all the photographers here and elsewhere that used to say that 50 MPIX was “far too much” and that no one needed that many megapixels for anything - who will be storming out to get this camera.
> 
> A paradox repeated every 3 or 4 years as people upgrade from one to the next edition of digital cameras.


ha jeah, true! I can remember it so clearly, all these guys laughing at canon because "noboy needs the Cnon 5Ds with 50mp". And now its expected to have at least 40mpixel in any model and the 20mpixel from the 1DX III is suddenly a disaster :-D 

Newer generations will allways have "more" in something and thats a good thing. One day the Megapixel war will finaly be over, but than other things will get important like even finer color details or maybe perfect 3D (without glasses). 

I think any image (photo or video) right now is still very far away from perfect (technicaly speaking). As long as I can distinguish between looking out of a window and looking onto a screen, it is not perfect. Only if this distinction is completely impossible for a human, the imagereproduction is technicaly perfect and wont need improvement. Until than, more "something" is sill necessary and will certainly happen. 
I am not realy sure whats the main problem of images being not perfectly lifelike. I guess its the flattness of the screen and the missing dynamic range that monitors still can not provide. Maybe this will be achieved one day and its finaly impossible to distinguish an image from an window. 
Dont get me wrong though, modern technology is impressive and for many people, me included, the camera is not the limiting factor in achieving great images. But its certainly not perfect and more power (resolution, dynamic range, bit depth, whatever) is still somehow "needed".


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## michi (Apr 22, 2020)

herein2020 said:


> When will people realize that a photo only camera would not be cheaper. So few people would buy it that they would have to make up the low volume with higher prices. Us hybrid shooters are the ones buying enough volume to keep the prices low enough for everyone to benefit from the lower prices that the manufacturers can charge due to the higher volume of bodies sold.



I would love too see your source for the split of photo only / hybrid / video only shooters.


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## David - Sydney (Apr 22, 2020)

Dragon said:


> The 5 series has been DCI capable for quite a while now so not likely that they would have stepped back from that, particularly at 8k.


Well they did by excluding 24p which was inexplicable.


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## yestostills (Apr 22, 2020)

As a professional broadcast videographer who has a strong interest in still photography, as do my colleagues, and Canon owner, these video specs are impressive but it begs the question, as someone who wants to upgrade a still camera to take advantage of Canon's superb RF lenses, would want to buy another video camera, when I already have two? The combination of these specs and the camera body design and ergonomics hardly lends itself to practical and pragmatic applications in broadcast production or cinematography. I hope Canon picks up the cue from Leica and releases a photographic centric still camera model for the rest of us.


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## Kit. (Apr 22, 2020)

picperfect said:


> I fail to see the logic. As a non-video user I really have a hard time understanding why Canon only makes 1 version of R5 and puts their ultimate video specs into it,


It's a good replacement for my 5D2, and it will hopefully serve me for another 10 years without becoming grossly outdated.

And even though I have no plans to _record_ any video with it, I would still use its video functionality for tethering (remote stills shooting) purposes.


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## MVPhoto (Apr 22, 2020)

Canon should add one more video mode! 4K60 in RAW! Yes I know that means a 1:1 pixel read out and that would give you a 2.0 crop factor. But could be useful where shallow DoF isn't needed! I'm not sure how rolling shutter would be effected though.


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## Chris.Chapterten (Apr 22, 2020)

cayenne said:


> As someone else on the thread posited, the video portions are largely software related....
> And if nothing else, the higher video is likely pushing the hardware so that still photo capabilities are going to be pulled along with it.
> 
> Having a stills only camera, for such a niche market, would likely lose the volume sales that help a hybrid camera over time...and make your stills only camera more $$$ since they'd not be selling as many.
> ...


Exactly right. I don't get why this is so hard to understand...


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## vjlex (Apr 22, 2020)

Memdroid said:


> This is interesting. An actual R5 and a sneak peak on the menu system.


I knew I should've downloaded this video after I watched it! It got taken down already. I wonder if someone overstepped their NDA.


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## xanbarksdale (Apr 22, 2020)

I've been saying this for months...while the R5 will be MORE than capable of photo, this camera was designed for the video shooter. On some levels it's an equivalent of the 5D, but on others it's completely different.


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## Trout Bum (Apr 22, 2020)

Stone said:


> I agree, Canon is for the most part asking us to buy into a completely new system as they make their transition to mirrorless. Do they deserve their money? Sure they make excellent glass and their sensor tech can compete with the other major players at this point. I can afford this body, but the prints I deliver to my customers generally 16x24 and on the rare occasion 20x30 would be no different from the prints from my "ancient" gear. Experience and decades of shooting lets me know this for sure. I'd love a super high resolution body and a super ultra 4K monitor so I could see someone getting stung by a bee 4 blocks away but it won't sell anymore than my 22 MP 5DIII or my 24MP Fuji. I guess my old age is making me post from a point of practicality these days, I just don't get excited by the latest & greatest. It'll all be in the discount bin before you reach the end of shutter life...



I think it's great that you and your clients (I wish I had some!) are happy with your output, and wouldn't discern any difference between using your gear and the “latest and greatest”. There's truth in the phrase, “it's the Indian and not the arrow”.
Nevertheless some of us, including many amateurs, (many as old as I am) derive pleasure from being more easily and more often successful in capturing the image we see.
I guess I wonder why you would bother following a thread like this.
Cheers!


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## Trout Bum (Apr 22, 2020)

David_E said:


> Bingo. I'm waiting for one of these people who are fired up up over the video performance to post a link to their feature film, documentary, nature video, or whatever. My suspicion is that their hobby is reading and criticizing DSLR video specs. And maybe making videos of their cute cats for Facebook.
> 
> M5, RP, 6D Mark II, 5D Mark IV. *I make still photographs, mostly.*



https://www.youtube.com/user/videobum1


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## Trout Bum (Apr 22, 2020)

Stone said:


> If it makes you money then by all means go for it. I have no problem with being on the cutting edge, I'm simply considering profit vs investment ratio. I'd love to see your work, I'm a fan of all good photography & video.


For some people, It's NOT ALL ABOUT THE MONEY!
(sorry for shouting, but Jeezus...)


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## GreatHairGuy (Apr 22, 2020)

Will it come with oven mitts for shooting long videos?


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## CanonOmar (Apr 22, 2020)

justaCanonuser said:


> I think it is up to everyone to switch brands, its a decision based on personal preferences. I did that back in the first decade after 2000, when I changed from Nikon to Canon because Canon was more attractive back then (and more logical to handle for me personally). I understand the reasons why you did that, and you do not need to apologize here.


I really appreciate that


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## stevelee (Apr 22, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> I agree with the logic that Canon should come out with multiple versions of the R5, as long as they are all versions of the same camera with things disabled to increase sales. They could have 1 version with everything in it (as the R5 is now), 1 version with all still features and good video (without the most exceptional video features), and 1 version with just the stills features. Each would have a different price. They're all the same camera & menu system. When they do come out with a 85MP sensor they could then do the same thing over again but brand it "version 2" or give it a new R#.
> 
> For the record, I take stills almost all of the time. I would much prefer to buy their version that disabled the video if they dropped the price significantly. In fact my preference is to have 2 identical camera bodies with 2 different lenses to that I can go out with just that and not swap lenses. If I got 2 bodies without video I'd save even more money. If I got one of each I'd still save money and the menu system would be identical in each, with the exception that the video menus wouldn't be in one of them. That would be heaven, and Canon would make more money, and those wanting the best video would also benefit. In fact we'd all benefit by having an increased number of bodies (& thus lenses, too) sold which makes Canon more profitable and able to lower their prices.
> 
> It would be even better if I decided down the road that I'd like to enable their great video features in my "stills R5" version. I could just pay extra and download the firmware update and then have the "full R5" version at the touch of a button. More money for Canon. Those wanting "good enough" video could save money now, and upgrade later when the stellar video features were more commonplace. Everybody wins!


That would be great. We could have endless threads about Canon’s crippled cameras.


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## stevelee (Apr 22, 2020)

Pape said:


> I rather watch wildlife with 10x magnification than try see little details on OVF. Always can buy more batterys
> I guess other peoples manage sneak more close than me


The wildlife would all come out while you are changing batteries.


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## Pape (Apr 22, 2020)

stevelee said:


> The wildlife would all come out while you are changing batteries.


So i should use diapers or i may miss shot when peeing 
Happened many times


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## AEWest (Apr 22, 2020)

Now that the specific video formats have been announced, can anyone tell me the pros and cons of using 8K video frame grabs at 10 bit RAW at 30 fps vs 12 fps RAW at a higher bit depth for sports photography?

I had expected the 8K to be only at 8 bit so similar to JPEG and therefore very limited for post processing. 

I am a stills photographer but am curious about taking frame grabs from video.


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## cpsico (Apr 22, 2020)

My precious


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## xanbarksdale (Apr 22, 2020)

AEWest said:


> Now that the specific video formats have been announced, can anyone tell me the pros and cons of using 8K video frame grabs at 10 bit RAW at 30 fps vs 12 fps RAW at a higher bit depth for sports photography?
> 
> I had expected the 8K to be only at 8 bit so similar to JPEG and therefore very limited for post processing.
> 
> I am a stills photographer but am curious about taking frame grabs from video.



Sports photography would usually be much better off shot with higher shutter speeds than are typically used for video.


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## David - Sydney (Apr 22, 2020)

Stone said:


> Honestly, I guess this is kind of my point, I've paid an average of ~$1600 - $1700 a pop for my admittedly great L glass. The RF glass is no cheaper so I'm just doing the math. I move to the RF mount and now my camera is dangling off my lenses so new lenses for balance = more money. I don't regret my purchases, my photography put 2 daughters through college but at this point and looking at what I've delivered, I could have done the same jobs for thousands less.
> 
> Since this topic is about the new Canon body: I believe people should spend their money however they wish, but cameras are now nothing more than computers with color science and the computer market changes once every 2 years or so. I just don't see them as a good investment anymore. Kudos to anyone who picks up this camera when it drops. I just can't justify spending the kind of money this body will demand anymore, especially when it will sell at a significant discount in just a few short years. Regardless of these fantastic specs If I decide to buy one, I'll be able to buy this body for ~$2k or less in a few short years, I'll send it to CPS and they'll make it shoot like new. I want as many ppl to buy them as possible, it makes for a fantastic used market.


Although it would be great if the used market is a couple of grand cheaper in a couple of years, the question will be "who is selling them"? We have the system switchers but (if all comes to pass as expected) it will be hard to see how much better Sony/Nikon could be to justify a big switch to them. As this is a game changer, it is more likely for them to switch to Canon. Canon's cycle times are longish compared to Sony. Sony etc may catch up to the R5 but again hard to see how the R5 will be less relevant for 99% of users in a couple of years' time. Downsizing due to weight shouldn't be an issue - already light and with smaller/lighter RF lenses coming up will okay if adapted EF/EF-S lenses aren't appropriate.
So who is going to sell them? Maybe only those stopping photography or selling due to financial stress. I think that second hand R5 will keep their value better than we think.


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## David - Sydney (Apr 22, 2020)

tpatana said:


> They could do SW lock/unlock for the versions. Say R5 is $500 cheaper versions but they SW locked the video features, R5C has the full video suite. And you could buy the upgrade later to go from R5 to R5C.
> 
> Of course they'd be worried about hack FW to enable video, but there's ways to make that difficult enough.


People would call that a cripple hammer for sure which doesn't make sense... whereas for any normal hardware supplier would call it a feature that was paid for based on the SW development cost. Same happens for your phone where you buy apps/SW using the platform's hardware power.

Also, Canon did provide an upgrade/cost path for CLog features for 5Div in 2017. I think that there was also a hardware heatsink added rather than just a pure SW upgrade.








Canon 5D Mark IV C-Log Upgrade Now Official, but It Comes with a Price


Rumors of Canon adding C-Log recording to the 5D Mark IV DSLR have been swirling around over the past month, but now it's official: Canon today announced




petapixel.com


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## privatebydesign (Apr 22, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Although it would be great if the used market is a couple of grand cheaper in a couple of years, the question will be "who is selling them"? We have the system switchers but (if all comes to pass as expected) it will be hard to see how much better Sony/Nikon could be to justify a big switch to them. As this is a game changer, it is more likely for them to switch to Canon. Canon's cycle times are longish compared to Sony. Sony etc may catch up to the R5 but again hard to see how the R5 will be less relevant for 99% of users in a couple of years' time. Downsizing due to weight shouldn't be an issue - already light and with smaller/lighter RF lenses coming up will okay if adapted EF/EF-S lenses aren't appropriate.
> So who is going to sell them? Maybe only those stopping photography or selling due to financial stress. I think that second hand R5 will keep their value better than we think.


Rubbish, the second the shine rubs off the R5 and the firmware fixes are done the R5 II rumors will start and a few features people are convinced they need by influencers and forum dipshits will mean they have to 'upgrade' even though they only shot 8k once and never edited the file, that R5 II will be just the camera they always needed...


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## privatebydesign (Apr 22, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Also, Canon did provide an upgrade/cost path for CLog features for 5Div in 2017. I think that there was also a hardware heatsink added rather than just a pure SW upgrade.



No hardware, purely software.


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## PBguy (Apr 22, 2020)

I'm going to need several more stimulus checks before I can afford it.

I picked up the EOS R during the Black Friday sales and I'm still not fully sold on mirrorless but I am enjoying the bump in resolution and low-light performance over the 6D. I'm hoping the R5 continues to improve low-light and DR performance compared to the 5D Mark IV and EOS R.


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## canonnews (Apr 22, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> 12 bit RAW in video. 14 bit in Stills far as I know. Where did you see 12bit RAW at 20fps electronic/silent shutter??



it's 12bit for 20 fps electronic. it's in the manual.


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## canonnews (Apr 22, 2020)

picperfect said:


> wrong. you can write all you want, 4k and 8k video does not come for free but causes significant additional cost compared to a stills camera.
> 
> And to repeat, i don't want an unrealistic camera, but [in addition to all the "hybrid" cameras] at least *one* realistic, pure stills FF camera with 35-45 MP, 6-8 fps, good DR, without any video/audio clutter (except internal low rez feed for EVF), at an affordable price - e.g. 1999



yeah, sorry that camera doesn't sell these days, not even for the just the exclusion of video but the stills specs are lagging too much.

the only hardware difference between video and fast stills - is the encoders.

you need extremely fast sensors for electronic shutter anyways. you need UHS-II or CFE for fast or deep buffers.

so yes, you ARE asking for an unrealistic camera. if you want that, get an used R and consider yourself pretty much there already.


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## David - Sydney (Apr 22, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> No hardware, purely software.


then why the need for return to Canon for the upgrade?


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## derpderp (Apr 22, 2020)

PBguy said:


> I'm going to need several more stimulus checks before I can afford it.
> 
> I picked up the EOS R during the Black Friday sales and I'm still not fully sold on mirrorless but I am enjoying the bump in resolution and low-light performance over the 6D. I'm hoping the R5 continues to improve low-light and DR performance compared to the 5D Mark IV and EOS R.



Why aren't you fully sold on mirrorless?


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## PBguy (Apr 22, 2020)

derpderp said:


> Why aren't you fully sold on mirrorless?


I'm not still not used to the EVF. It's just different. I'm also not used to having to use the touchscreen for most adjustments, I miss having physical buttons. They're minor issues and there are definitely some benefits. I'm completely satisfied with the image quality.


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## HarryFilm (Apr 22, 2020)

Here is some RECORDING TIME MATH for the Canon R5 camera for DCI 8K video recording at FULL Uncompressed RAW, 3:1 Compressed RAW and 5:1 Compressed RAW recording formats.

DCI 8K FULL RAW video at 10 Bits per colour channel (4:4:4 colour sampling at 30 bit colour) is 8192 by 4320 pixels and 35,389,440 pixels (35.38 megapixels) and 42,467,328 bytes per video frame = 1,274,019,840 bytes per second at 30 fps FULL RAW (or 1.27 Gigabytes per second!) or 76,441,190,400 bytes per minute (76.44 gigabytes per minute) of FULL uncompressed RAW recording time.

Size of CF Express Cards in Gigabytes and Calculated RAW Recording Times
in minutes and seconds at 10 bits per RGB/YCbCr colour channel:

---------------------------------------------
Uncompressed FULL RAW
---------------------------------------------
128 gigabytes = 1 min 40 sec
256 gigabytes = 3 min 20 sec
512 gigabytes = 6 min 40 sec

-----------------------------------------------------
Compressed 3:1 Ratio RAW in minutes and seconds:
-----------------------------------------------------
128 gigabytes = 5 minutes
256 gigabytes = 10 minutes
512 gigabytes = 20 minutes

-----------------------------------------------------
Compressed 5:1 Ratio RAW in minutes and seconds:
-----------------------------------------------------
128 gigabytes = 8 min 20 sec
256 gigabytes = 16 min 40 sec
512 gigabytes = 41 min 20 sec at DCI 8K or 165 minutes at DCI 4K at 24 to 30 fps or about 80 minutes at 4K 60fps!

For still images at the LIKELY 45 megapixels that will be used for this camera in stills mode, we can expect to store about about 14,000+ still images on a single 128 Gigabyte CF express card at the typical 5:1 compression ratio of the HEIF image file format.

Sooooooo, it looks like Canon has done AN OUTSTANDING JOB on FULL RAW and COMPRESSED RAW recording times for the larger 256 and 512 gigabyte CF-Express cards!

If you record only DCI 4K video multiply ALL of the above times BY FOUR !!!!!

AND .... I should note that if you use 4:2:2 H.265 DCI 8K (8192 x 4320 pixels) compressed video recording, you SHOULD be able to get a fairly high record time using 50 to 150 Group-of-Frame (GOP) settings which means on a 128 gigabyte CF-Express card you should be able to get about 20 minutes minimum at the high quality pro-level video settings.

For the 512 Gigabyte cards that's at least 50 minutes of very high quality H.265 DCI 8K video.

If you use medium quality video settings used for things like weddings or documentaries, you should be able to almost DOUBLE those video record times. (i.e. 100 minutes of DCI 8K 4:2:2 video using standard quality profiles on a 512 gigabyte CFexpress memory card)

That's not too shabby as record times for full DCI 8K video resolution! I should note though that H.265 is rather finicky on CONTENT DETAIL and EXCESSIVE MOTION, so your recording time mileage may vary! EXPECT A PLUS OR MINUS 25% leeway on either side of my above estimated record times!

That is AWSOME performance! Kudos to Canon!

V


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## AEWest (Apr 22, 2020)

xanbarksdale said:


> Sports photography would usually be much better off shot with higher shutter speeds than are typically used for video.


Thanks. One other big issue is rolling shutter according to another site.


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## picperfect (Apr 22, 2020)

canonnews said:


> get an used R and consider yourself pretty much there already.


not nearly. got a 5D3. want a clear and significant improvement. New sensor, around 40 MP, low speed/fps, great DR, latest AF (face, eye, etc.) and state of art EVF.

EOS R with re-used 5D4 sensor and mutilated user interface does not cut it for me. Neither will R6 with only 20 MP.

R5 all fine and dandy, but not willing to pay for lots of video stuff i'll never even touch.

there are many users just like myself: amateur/enthusiast pure stills photogs, Canon has to come up with suitable EOS R models for us, if they want our money and buy-in into R system.


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## privatebydesign (Apr 22, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> then why the need for return to Canon for the upgrade?


Because Canon are VERY protective of their C-Log firmware and have never released it. If you owned a 1DC you had to send it in to Canon to get even normal firmware updates.


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## David - Sydney (Apr 22, 2020)

I wonder if you could use the R5 as a webcam without needing an external HDMI-> USB capture device costing a couple of hundred dollars.
Never understood why a multiple thousand dollar camera can't provide this functionality out of the box for my macbook pro


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## Ozarker (Apr 22, 2020)

picperfect said:


> there are many users just like myself: amateur/enthusiast pure stills photogs, Canon has to come up with suitable EOS R models for us, if they want our money and buy-in into R system.


Actually, I came from the 5D Mark III to the R as a pure stills photographer. Canon got my money and I was happy to give it. Many here have done the same. As much as I loved my 5D mark III, the R is better to me. I have taken no video with it. Is the menu system cluttered with video features? Not to me. I just skip that section of the menu and it takes zero time at all to do so. Do I bemoan the fact that I might have paid for features I'll never use? Not for a second. I'll never use auto mode for stills either. We can look at it and say that still shooters are subsidizing video shooters, but maybe it is the other way around.

It is interesting to me that you have a 5D mark III with video features, but are now complaining about not having a pure stills camera to choose. I understand what you want, but you ain't gonna get it... ever. Never. Ever. Right now, you are just beating a dead horse. While you may never buy into the R system, the fact remains that you already own the style of camera you are making protests about.  I believe the last FF Canon DSLR without video was the 5D circa 2010. They can be had on Ebay for under $300. That is the only way you are ever going to get what you are pining for. I had the same obsession as you do several years ago. I posted a thread here on this forum that I just wanted a pure stills camera and bewailed that I must surely be paying for things I'll never use. Oh well. You'll always be paying for things you'll never use unless you have a custom camera built just for you. That would run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars.

You say there are many users like yourself who want a pure stills camera. How many? How many is "many"? See, that's the problem. Not enough.


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## picperfect (Apr 22, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> You say there are many users like yourself who want a pure stills camera. How many? See, that's the problem. Not enough.



In my opinion camera makers are underestimating the number. One thing is for sure: it is way larger than number of folks really needing 8k video in a non-video camera today. 

Yes, I got a 5D3 and yes, it has video. Not because I wanted it, but depite of it. It was forced down my throat. And yes, I do regret my purchase of 5D3 and f/2.8 EF L zooms. While IQ is fine, AF is not to my taste (no face/eye detect, still gives me shots focused on fence in background rather than on faces in foreground) and most importantly: too big , too heavy, too expensive, too cumbersome for most of my use, most of the time. That's why my 5D3 and L glass are only used for planned shoots and locked in a closet 99,99% of the time, while my EOS M and EF-M are almost always along with me. 

I still believe fully capable, affordable and super-compact mirrorfree FF stills-optimized cameras will eventually come. Sized just a tad bigger than Sigma fp to include built-in pop-up EVF and a good power pack. Sensor 35-45 MP, 8 fps, really intelligent AF (face, eye, subject tracking), excellent EVF, priced at 1499, max. 1999. Plus matching lenses sized and priced around where the new Samyang AF lineup is. 

Currently camera makers are in the same phase like car manufacturers in the 1970s: only BIG cars. Things changed. a lot. Now there is ample choice of small, fully capable cars as well. I do hope the current crisis and its economic aftermath over the next 2-3 years will bring camera makers first to their knees and then to their senses. One R5 is fine, no problem. But what's sorely missing are *really decent, really compact, really affordable* cameras and lenses. 8k video? Not so much.

We shall see how things play out. In the meantime I'll capture some more stills images with my EOS M plus a few with my 5D3. Not in a hurry to spend money. 

PS: Speaking of money: short term I am waiting for R5 price to become known. It might be a fun moment, for me.


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## derpderp (Apr 22, 2020)

picperfect said:


> not nearly. got a 5D3. want a clear and significant improvement.* New sensor, around 40 MP, low speed/fps, great DR, latest AF (face, eye, etc.) and state of art EVF.*
> 
> EOS R with re-used 5D4 sensor and mutilated user interface does not cut it for me. Neither will R6 with only 20 MP.
> 
> ...



Wants state of art specs, does not want to pay state of art $$. 

(It's ok, so do I)


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## Otara (Apr 22, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> I wonder if you could use the R5 as a webcam without needing an external HDMI-> USB capture device costing a couple of hundred dollars.
> Never understood why a multiple thousand dollar camera can't provide this functionality out of the box for my macbook pro



Same reason Lamborghini's dont tend to have towbars as a standard attachment.


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## picperfect (Apr 22, 2020)

derpderp said:


> Wants state of art specs, does not want to pay state of art $$.
> 
> (It's ok, so do I)



"Wants state of the art stills specs, does not want to pay for state of the art video specs."


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## Otara (Apr 22, 2020)

picperfect said:


> In my opinion camera makers are underestimating the number. One thing is for sure: it is way larger than number of folks really needing 8k video in a non-video camera today.



Both groups are pretty tiny. One works a lot better marketting wise though.


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## canonnews (Apr 22, 2020)

picperfect said:


> not nearly. got a 5D3. want a clear and significant improvement. New sensor, around 40 MP, low speed/fps, great DR, latest AF (face, eye, etc.) and state of art EVF.


Yes. Nearly.

The EOS R / 5D Mark IV sensor absolutely crushes the 5D Mark III sensor performance.



It's not even close.

latest AF - check EOS R has that.

3.7Mdot EVF is certainly up there. and you're not getting the 5Mdot one for a $1999 camera either.

So basically a EOS R has everything on your checklist. for cheaper than you want.



picperfect said:


> EOS R with re-used 5D4 sensor and mutilated user interface does not cut it for me. Neither will R6 with only 20 MP.


what mutilated user interface? the touch bar? news flash you don't HAVE to use it.

So unless the tool, which does as you describe acts and looks EXACTLY how you want then it's not a credible stills machine. Got it.

Sounds like you're just attention-seeking, sorry.

Canon (nor anyone) isn't going to pigeonhole a camera into the EXACT position you want.

even according to your requirements Canon already has the camera that exceeds your requirements.

and i'll say this again, since you quoted me out of context - there's practically no difference in hardware between a video capable ILC and a stills ILC outside of the video encoders. What seems to be even weirder in this entire sub-thread is that you think "video" triples the cost of the camera.

News flash to support 20 fps electronically at 45MP - Canon was already there with 8K video. As long as the sensor and DIGIC can sustain that stills performance, 8K RAW is actually just as easy.


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## koenkooi (Apr 22, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> I wonder if you could use the R5 as a webcam without needing an external HDMI-> USB capture device costing a couple of hundred dollars.
> Never understood why a multiple thousand dollar camera can't provide this functionality out of the box for my macbook pro



You can make it work without additional hardware, but it needs a bit of fiddling with extra software: https://docs.crowdcast.io/en/articles/1935406-how-to-use-your-dslr-as-a-webcam

I tried it with my RP and 50/1.8 and it worked great, but FaceTime won't support it, skype, zoom, google hangouts, quicktime did work. 

I agree that it would be nice if Canon would support an UVC profile over USB to make this work without hassle.


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## picperfect (Apr 22, 2020)

canonnews said:


> The EOS R / 5D Mark IV sensor absolutely crushes the 5D Mark III sensor performance.
> It's not even close.


IQ is a bit better. Not a lot. 
Mutilated UI: useless touchbar and 4-way controller instead of wheel and proven EOS UI. If Canon wanted to improve things, they should have given it same sensitive AF joystick as 1DX III. 

Overall *for me* EOS R does not warrant upgrade from 5D3.


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## canonnews (Apr 22, 2020)

picperfect said:


> IQ is a bit better. Not a lot.
> Mutilated UI: useless touchbar and 4-way controller instead of wheel and proven EOS UI. If Canon wanted to improve things, they should have given it same sensitive AF joystick as 1DX III.
> 
> Overall *for me* EOS R does not warrant upgrade from 5D3.



Umm yeah its much better not just "a bit better". 5D3 is a banding nightmare.

and yet you are fine with an EOS-M and it's ergonomics.



Okay .. so basically what we have here is:

- any benefit of an existing camera that already suits your needs is trivialized.

and because of this:

- canon should build a mythical camera (and lenses from what I just saw) at a purely out of your posterior price point, with all Canon's latest r&d features. Because ignoring video, still according to your wish list requires canon to put in all it's latest and greatest development efforts.

- canon needs to release this for cheaper than basically any full frame camera outside of the EOS RP has ever been released at.

I'm sorry but have you been stuck in quarantine too long? feeling okay? need to get out and get some fresh air? It doesn't make any sense whatsoever. If you are creating a bleading edge system, to a smaller overall market. you are going to have to MORE for it.. not less. what's going to pay for all that R&D that went into the camera? Oh RIGHT.. the cameras that have both video and stills.


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## Ozarker (Apr 22, 2020)

picperfect said:


> In my opinion camera makers are underestimating the number.



That's the problem; when opinion and facts get confused. For your opinion to be true means that every single camera maker's market research is wrong and that you have hard evidence to back up your position. You don't. That's irrational.



picperfect said:


> Yes, I got a 5D3... It was forced down my throat.



Not really. Let's not get melodramatic.

I've bought cameras I regret: Olympus. Nobody forced it on me. If you'd like to talk about what is truly a muddy slog of a menu system, we can go there... to Olympus. My wife loves it, however, she is always in auto and never has looked through the menus. The menus are tragic. The EVF is God awful.

Like @canonnews says, the 5D IV/R sensor IQ gives the sensor in the 5D Mark III a real thrashing. No contest.

Hopefully, someday, you'll find something you'll be happy with.


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## derpderp (Apr 22, 2020)

picperfect said:


> "Wants state of the art stills specs, does not want to pay for state of the art video video specs."



Unfortunately, I doubt Canon would be able to entertain your demands. Even if they cripple the video specs deliberately, they'd still be putting the same high end sensor into the camera, which means the cost savings is probably minimal. That translates to a slightly lower price for the buyer, but not as significant as you might imagine.


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## masterpix (Apr 22, 2020)

Does it mean that the 5D mark V is not in the development? Or that the same spec will coem to it as well (beside the EVF and IBIS)?


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## CanonOmar (Apr 22, 2020)

^this!


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## vjlex (Apr 22, 2020)

masterpix said:


> Does it mean that the 5D mark V is not in the development? Or that the same spec will coem to it as well (beside the EVF and IBIS)?


Your guess is as good as anyone else's.


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## Joules (Apr 22, 2020)

picperfect said:


> "Wants state of the art stills specs, does not want to pay for state of the art video specs."


With a mirrorless camera, you literally need all the video processing steps except encoding.

What do you think is the difference between recording 8K 30p RAW video and capturing 45 MP 20 FPS stills? What's the difference between good video AF and tracking and good stills AF and tracking? You pay for those in any case and with video, the cost to develop them is spread over a greater customer base, reducing what you actually have to pay for them. 

LiveView / EVF display are just a kind of video output. And the encoding hardware shouldn't be adding an immense amount of cost, especially considering the additional sales that ability to capture video generates. Otherwise, I don't see why Cameras like the M50 would have gotten 4K video, since it clearly is aimed at a market segment that is budget focused.


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## Stone (Apr 22, 2020)

Trout Bum said:


> I think it's great that you and your clients (I wish I had some!) are happy with your output, and wouldn't discern any difference between using your gear and the “latest and greatest”. There's truth in the phrase, “it's the Indian and not the arrow”.
> Nevertheless some of us, including many amateurs, (many as old as I am) derive pleasure from being more easily and more often successful in capturing the image we see.
> I guess I wonder why you would bother following a thread like this.
> Cheers!



It's called Covid-19, I've only recently started browsing these forums again after about a 3 year hiatus. If we weren't all on lockdown, I'd be out. Again, spend your money however you wish but I don't think I ever advised anyone to NOT buy this camera when it drops. Alot of things have changed on this forum, we would debate the relative merits of a new piece of kit for days in the past some for, some against. I simply provided an alternative viewpoint which I now know is frowned upon here, I won't break the rules again.

Cheers


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## GEPRO (Apr 22, 2020)

R5 Definitely an amazing camera but I am not a video photographer I wanted to know if Stills photographers will also get some significant camera to replace like the EOS 5DSR for example


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## picperfect (Apr 22, 2020)

GEPRO said:


> R5 Definitely an amazing camera but I am not a video photographer I wanted to know if Stills photographers will also get some significant camera to replace like the EOS 5DSR for example



no, Canon will not. At least not if you ask most of the forum users here. And no, you are not allowed to even ask. ;-)


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## herein2020 (Apr 22, 2020)

picperfect said:


> not nearly. got a 5D3. want a clear and significant improvement. New sensor, around 40 MP, low speed/fps, great DR, latest AF (face, eye, etc.) and state of art EVF.
> 
> EOS R with re-used 5D4 sensor and mutilated user interface does not cut it for me. Neither will R6 with only 20 MP.
> 
> ...



This thread has truly devolved into pure comedy for me. There is simply no remaining logic to this discussion. You just described the EOS R right down to the EVF which you can pick up right now from Canon with a warranty for $1600 yet you want to hold out for a mystical camera that will somehow be even cheaper because it has no video features.

I have the 5D4 and had the 5D3 before that; I don't know what more you could possibly want from a sensor that is not already there; the user interface in the EOS R looks just like the user interface in any other Canon..same menu system, just a few more options. And with the RF glass that "re-used 5D4 sensor" can be made to look even better.

Now if you had said things like it only has a single card slot, you want the joystick from the 5D series, you are not sold on an EVF for photography, you hate the function bar, etc. then at least I would understand; because these are the reasons why I did not get the R...actual hardware problems that make it hard to justify the purchase; but to describe a camera that you wish existed and to have it match down to the letter of a camera that actually does already exist and that same said camera is even cheaper than your stated entry price is where all logic leaves the discussion.



GEPRO said:


> R5 Definitely an amazing camera but I am not a video photographer I wanted to know if Stills photographers will also get some significant camera to replace like the EOS 5DSR for example



You do realize that the photography specs for the R5 haven't even been announced yet right? And at 45MP, the R5 is pretty much there in terms of 5DSR image resolution. Canon is really hyping the video specs for now because Sony, Panasonic, and Nikon have been eating their lunch in that department for years. This is Canon's way of trying to triage the bleeding while they prepare to launch the camera. I'm sure in the next few weeks we will learn about the photography side of things as well. At the very least we already know it will have amazing AF, Canon's color science, dual card slots, same ergonomics as the EOS R no function bar, RF glass, etc. Plenty of photography specs can already be derived from what we already know about the camera. At the very least you can look at the EOS R's specs bump that up to 45MP and start there.

I don't know why some people are so overwhelmed by the video specs that have been released so far that they think this will not be a stills camera as well. It would make more sense if we were talking about the C300 MK II and saying we hope a stills camera is somewhere in the pipeline. These are very exciting times in the Canon photography and video world, how anyone can possibly find anything to complain about right now is completely beyond me.


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## Kit. (Apr 22, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> I wonder if you could use the R5 as a webcam without needing an external HDMI-> USB capture device costing a couple of hundred dollars.


Unlikely.

However, e_very_ camera that supports CCAPI can stream live view over WiFi or Ethernet.


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## Memdroid (Apr 22, 2020)

shunsai said:


> I knew I should've downloaded this video after I watched it! It got taken down already. I wonder if someone overstepped their NDA.




It has been reposted


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## canonnews (Apr 22, 2020)

GEPRO said:


> R5 Definitely an amazing camera but I am not a video photographer I wanted to know if Stills photographers will also get some significant camera to replace like the EOS 5DSR for example
> 
> View attachment 190042


re-write this post.

There's been rumors for the last year of a high MP RF camera - so yeah somewhere around 80 to 100MP is the rumors.

Since the R5 can punch out 900 million pixels per second - we're looking at somewhere around a completely insane maximum 10 to 12 fps for it.

I would imagine it will be like the 5D - built on the 5D ergos - so take the EOS R5 and add an "S" or an "SR" to it i guess.

but really if you didn't need the higher res the R5 is going to be a crazy good stills camera at 45MP.
- 45MP
- 12fps with mechanical shutter with full AF/AE
- 20fps (most likely 12 bits instead of 14) with electronic shutter with AF (no word on AE,but probably so)
- AF includes the normal AF modes, plus Person and Animal AF. Animal AF uses AI for dogs, cats and BIRDS. No one else does birds.
- AF modes include head/body/eyeAF
- IBIS works with OIS for up to 8 stops of stabilization (IBIS + IS for both RF and EF lenses)
- Articulating screen

There's not much really that we don't know.. it's pretty damned good so far.

You can argue that it doesn't match 5D ergonomics and I agree it does not. But other than that, it takes the 5DIV out back to the woodshed *if* the performance and operational speed of the camera is there.

I'm personally waiting for the high res version of this camera, so the R5 is not for me. But it's a damned impressive stills shooting machine.


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## vjlex (Apr 22, 2020)

Memdroid said:


> It has been reposted


Yup, I found it too, but that one removed the menus parts it seems.


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## Memdroid (Apr 22, 2020)

shunsai said:


> Yup, I found it too, but that one removed the menus parts it seems.



Yeah you are right! Bummer, that was quite exciting, even though there was not much to look at other than the IBIS and face tracking options...


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## Chris.Chapterten (Apr 22, 2020)

Memdroid said:


> Yeah you are right! Bummer, that was quite exciting, even though there was not much to look at other than the IBIS and face tracking options...


Interesting! What did you see in the IBIS options?


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## vjlex (Apr 22, 2020)

Memdroid said:


> Yeah you are right! Bummer, that was quite exciting, even though there was not much to look at other than the IBIS and face tracking options...


True. Hopefully it will be released soon though so we can flip through the menus ourselves.


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## vjlex (Apr 22, 2020)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> Interesting! What did you see in the IBIS options?


There was an option for Image Stabilization and digital image stabilization. I don't recall it being specifically labeled as In-Body, but it obviously was as it was clearly distinct from the digital option. Seems like both could be toggled on or off. Honestly, there wasn't that much to see.


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## canonnews (Apr 22, 2020)

shunsai said:


> Yup, I found it too, but that one removed the menus parts it seems.


ohh they got spanked.
we made copies of the some of the menus on our article about it.

sadly not enough pictures though.








Hands on video with the Canon EOS R5


Someone actually got to touch the camera! They didn't say much that we didn't already know, I'm sure Canon told them what they could mention and what they couldn't. They mention some interesting new specifications on this video I don't know if it's true. It's a good look at the person walking...



www.canonnews.com


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## koenkooi (Apr 22, 2020)

shunsai said:


> There was an option for Image Stabilization and digital image stabilization. I don't recall it being specifically labeled as In-Body, but it obviously was as it was clearly distinct from the digital option. Seems like both could be toggled on or off. Honestly, there wasn't that much to see.



The movie menu also showed the 'Zebra' option many video people have been wanting. But not vectorscope, waveform or any other video helpers.


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## [email protected] (Apr 22, 2020)

kraats said:


> Hoe much money and time do jou waste on switching brands?



It's a new world. We no longer have to completely change systems.

I'm one of the folks who mostly switched to Sony last year. I kept 13 EF lenses, though, and used all of them via the excellent Sigma adapter. Unless the cripple hammer sneaks up in some crazy manner, I'm going to be buying a couple R5s and moving back to Canon bodies. Salivating. 

I'll sell a couple Sony bodys, and 4 E-mount lenses. Current used prices indicate I'll lose about 20 percent on those. When you look across the entire kit, this means that I'll have paid a tax of about 10 percent on everything to have gone from Canon to Sony for a couple years and then back again. It's no longer the case that you sell everything. Canon EF lenses are the common currency among most systems. I was even able to spend a couple months experimenting with the Panasonic S1R without needing to buy any glass. It's pretty liberating (and educational). 

To get 60 megapixels at 10 fps on one body and 20fps with silent shooting on another has been well worth it to me. I recognize that, for others, this isn't terribly useful. 

Being a Canon fan, as I am, you take the good with the bad. The good is they come up with crazy stuff like dual pixel AF. The bad is that they to rest on that for the next few years. With the new world of adapters, you can have the best of both worlds - at least until you start buying RF lenses, like I'm about to. I think we'll look back at the 2018-2020 time period as the golden moment you could freely move between systems without the normal switching costs.


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## PureClassA (Apr 22, 2020)

canonnews said:


> if you want that, get an used R and consider yourself pretty much there already.


and I just may have one for sale as soon as I get my hands on the R5


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## Fischer (Apr 22, 2020)

canonnews said:


> re-write this post.
> 
> There's been rumors for the last year of a high MP RF camera - so yeah somewhere around 80 to 100MP is the rumors.
> 
> ...



So am I. But the good news is that Canon will learn from the "R5" as they did from the "R" and that will make the 5RS (or whatever) even better, just as the 5DS/R introduced several of the upgrades that later went into the 5DIV.


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## stevelee (Apr 22, 2020)

derpderp said:


> Unfortunately, I doubt Canon would be able to entertain your demands. Even if they cripple the video specs deliberately, they'd still be putting the same high end sensor into the camera, which means the cost savings is probably minimal. That translates to a slightly lower price for the buyer, but not as significant as you might imagine.


I would suspect that the extra costs of maintaining a different product line, packaging, etc., etc., would make the camera less profitable even if they charged the same price. If they charged a bit less for it, they might pick up a few more sales, but hardly enough to cover the extra costs plus the discount.


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## stevelee (Apr 22, 2020)

[email protected] said:


> It's a new world. We no longer have to completely change systems.
> 
> I'm one of the folks who mostly switched to Sony last year. I kept 13 EF lenses, though, and used all of them via the excellent Sigma adapter. Unless the cripple hammer sneaks up in some crazy manner, I'm going to be buying a couple R5s and moving back to Canon bodies. Salivating.


Sounds like the switching process has become a hobby to itself.


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## AEWest (Apr 22, 2020)

picperfect said:


> no, Canon will not. At least not if you ask most of the forum users here. And no, you are not allowed to even ask. ;-)


I expect every camera coming out will have some basic video capabilities - it is the market we are in. 

However, I do expect that there will be a higher resolution R5(S) camera coming within a year that will be more focused on stills and probably won't have 8K video, perhaps only 4K with a crop.

I wonder if there will be an R Mark 2 that has the same sensor as Mark 1 but with IBIS and Af joystick at current R price?That would be a very popular choice for many I think whereas the R6 seems to be 7D replacement.


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## picperfect (Apr 22, 2020)

stevelee said:


> I would suspect that the extra costs of maintaining a different product line, packaging, etc., etc., would make the camera less profitable even if they charged the same price. If they charged a bit less for it, they might pick up a few more sales, but hardly enough to cover the extra costs plus the discount.



i don't believe that for 1 minute. A company like Canon that is willing and able to make and sell about 50 different SKUs (including various kit packages) of darn low end crop sensor Rebels, priced between 299 and 899 ... should definitely be able to make 2 or 3 versions of an R5 priced between 2499 and 5999 per body. With and without video capturing.


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## Ozarker (Apr 22, 2020)

picperfect said:


> i don't believe that for 1 minute. A company like Canon that is willing and able to make and sell about 50 different SKUs (including various kit packages) of darn low end crop sensor Rebels, priced between 299 and 899 ... should definitely be able to make 2 or 3 versions of an R5 priced between 2499 and 5999 per body. With and without video capturing.


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## dtaylor (Apr 22, 2020)

picperfect said:


> i don't believe that for 1 minute. A company like Canon that is willing and able to make and sell about 50 different SKUs (including various kit packages) of darn low end crop sensor Rebels, priced between 299 and 899 ... should definitely be able to make 2 or 3 versions of an R5 priced between 2499 and 5999 per body. With and without video capturing.



But can they make an R5 with a lower price and lower video specs without said body being firmware hacked to deliver full 8k? Personally I think it's dangerous and stupid for any manufacturer to distinguish based on firmware. It's almost guaranteed to be hacked. And I don't see Canon manufacturing a separate R5 sensor or DIGIC board.

Then again...yes Canon, please ship two R5's. One at a lower price point with all the same hardware but firmware limited video to, say, 4k30. I promise I won't hack it


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## picperfect (Apr 22, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> But can they make an R5 with a lower price and lower video specs without said body being firmware hacked to deliver full 8k? Personally I think it's dangerous and stupid for any manufacturer to distinguish based on firmware. It's almost guaranteed to be hacked. And I don't see Canon manufacturing a separate R5 sensor or DIGIC board.
> 
> Then again...yes Canon, please ship two R5's. One at a lower price point with all the same hardware but firmware limited video to, say, 4k30. I promise I won't hack it



to my knowledge no Canon 1 series / 1DC was ever hacked. Canon tolerated a bit of Magic Lantern at the lower end, but that was it.

I also advocate some smart "hardware differentiation". No audio amps, no speakers, no mics, no mic jack, no HDMI connector and horror of horrors, no headphone jack on the "pure stills version". Then the hybrid video folks can hack firmware all they want. LOL


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## Doug7131 (Apr 22, 2020)

picperfect said:


> to my knowledge no Canon 1 series / 1DC was ever hacked. Canon tolerated a bit of Magic Lantern at the lower end, but that was it.
> 
> I also advocate some smart "hardware differentiation". No audio amps, no speakers, no mics, no mic jack, no HDMI connector and horror of horrors, no headphone jack on the "pure stills version". Then the hybrid video folks can hack firmware all they want. LOL


Removing the items you listed will reduce the BOM cost of the camera by about 2-3$ max. Making it a utterly pointless excersice. Literally everything in that's needed for video is already going to be in the camera whether you want it or not. Or are you under some impression that 20FPS stills shototing is any different to video other than way the data is ultimatly stored? High speed stills shooting actaully needes more processing power since the camera needs to constaly recalculate the exposure between every shot.


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## BillB (Apr 22, 2020)

picperfect said:


> to my knowledge no Canon 1 series / 1DC was ever hacked. Canon tolerated a bit of Magic Lantern at the lower end, but that was it.


Calling the 5D lower end seems a bit of a stretch.


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## stevelee (Apr 22, 2020)

picperfect said:


> i don't believe that for 1 minute. A company like Canon that is willing and able to make and sell about 50 different SKUs (including various kit packages) of darn low end crop sensor Rebels, priced between 299 and 899 ... should definitely be able to make 2 or 3 versions of an R5 priced between 2499 and 5999 per body. With and without video capturing.


Of course they are able to do that. I don't know why they would, but yes, if the CEO demanded it in damn the torpedos manner, they could. They supposedly make a lot of their money off Rebels and now the M series. It makes sense to cover a lot of waterfront with them. I bought my first Rebel as an impulse purchase when I went into a store to look at washing machines. I mainly learned from it that I needed a better Rebel to do what I wanted, so I got a T3i and bought more lenses over time. What I wanted to do increased by $10,000+ over the coming years, much of that since I have been coming to this board.


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## picperfect (Apr 22, 2020)

Doug7131 said:


> Removing the items you listed will reduce the BOM cost of the camera by about 2-3$ max. Making it a utterly pointless excersice. Literally everything in that's needed for video is already going to be in the camera whether you want it or not. Or are you under some impression that 20FPS stills shototing is any different to video other than way the data is ultimatly stored? High speed stills shooting actaully needes more processing power since the camera needs to constaly recalculate the exposure between every shot.



all fine and dandy. But the little hardware modifications would very effectively protect against firmware hacks. That way hybrid users could be charged 10000 or 2000 more for the additional functionality over stills only. As should be.


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## picperfect (Apr 22, 2020)

stevelee said:


> It makes sense to cover a lot of waterfront with them.



It makes at least as much sense to cover different usage scenarios, capability sets (stills, video, stills+video) and pricepoints between 2499 and 6999 with more than 2 cameras (R5 and 1DX III + future R1 ).


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## stevelee (Apr 22, 2020)

A little piece of black tape could cover up the movie camera icon on the dial, and it would be easy to pretend it isn't there. I don't bother to cover it up, and I still manage to ignore it except for the once a year or so I shoot some video.


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## eruditorum (Apr 22, 2020)

picperfect said:


> all fine and dandy. But the little hardware modifications would very effectively protect against firmware hacks. That way hybrid users could be charged 10000 or 2000 more for the additional functionality over stills only. As should be.



Except, it shouldn't be. You seem to be under the impression that recording video requires some sort of gold plated encoder chip that costs thousands. It doesn't. The cost to make your mythical stills camera is nearly the same as the cost to make the same camera with video. But you don't even have to take my word for it. Canon has already told you. The original 5D cost $3299. With the Mark II, they added all the video functionality and the cost was $3499. 

So, that is Canon saying that all of the hardware and R&D to add the complete video solution from scratch costs $200. And that number has only gone down since then as much of the R&D has already been done. And modern mirrorless cameras need more of those video pieces to do the job of taking stills.Even if we stick with the rather high $200 estimate, do you really think anyone would choose the R5G with no video option for $3299 when they could get the R5 with all the video bells and whistles for $3499? 

And even if you still cling to this idea of needing a photo only camera, and stubbornly buy that R5G, you are going to lose more than you save in resale, because you are going to have to find another person who has this weird anti-video fetish to sell it to.


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## koenkooi (Apr 22, 2020)

eruditorum said:


> Except, it shouldn't be. You seem to be under the impression that recording video requires some sort of gold plated encoder chip that costs thousands. It doesn't. The cost to make your mythical stills camera is nearly the same as the cost to make the same camera with video. But you don't even have to take my word for it. Canon has already told you. The original 5D cost $3299. With the Mark II, they added all the video functionality and the cost was $3499.
> 
> So, that is Canon saying that all of the hardware and R&D to add the complete video solution from scratch costs $200.[..]



I ran the 3299/2005 and 3499/2008 through the top 2 inflation calculators my google search turned up and both agreed that $3300 in 2005 would be $3600+ in 2008 strictly through inflation. If that's true, video actually made the camera cheaper


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## BillB (Apr 22, 2020)

picperfect said:


> It makes at least as much sense to cover different usage scenarios, capability sets (stills, video, stills+video) and pricepoints between 2499 and 6999 with more than 2 cameras (R5 and 1DX III + future R1 ).


where It makes sense to differentiate might depend on the price volume curve among other things.


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## canonmike (Apr 22, 2020)

Looks like Canon has taken the gloves off and has come out swinging. The more I hear about the R5, the more worried I become that the price will reflect all those awesome specs and come in between $4500-5500.00. On the other hand, perhaps, Canon is going to subsidize market pricing for the R5 and plans on recouping their investment by selling lots of RF glass. Given its promised features, I just don't see this being a $3500.00 camera, I'm afraid. The only reason I could see that low a price happening is if Canon has made a conscious decision to finally make a statement that they are here to stay, stop the defections and increase mirror less market share, suddenly and voraciously. Take that Sony. As a footnote, just look at the You Tube video excitement, one after another, coming from all of the NON-Canon camps. I have been a Canon user since the 1980's and have never seen so much excitement about a product offering. Now, make a believer out of us Canon and take everyone's money. I just hope you are able to supply the demand for what's sure to be the biggest camera offering from a manufacturer, ever. We have long waited for this day.


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## usern4cr (Apr 22, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> View attachment 190046


I have to admit that your post is hilarious, and right on point!


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## canonmike (Apr 22, 2020)

Congratulations, Canon Rumor Guy, on your now Canon validated R5 rumor info. Kudos to you. We are going to raise your grades to CR3. You have worked hard all these yrs to get here. Now, sit back and enjoy all the positive feedback. You definitely deserve it.


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## davidhfe (Apr 22, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> The movie menu also showed the 'Zebra' option many video people have been wanting. But not vectorscope, waveform or any other video helpers.



<sarcasm>But wait how could that be?! I thought canon was releasing a video-focused camera here!</sarcasm>


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## davidhfe (Apr 22, 2020)

picperfect said:


> It makes at least as much sense to cover different usage scenarios, capability sets (stills, video, stills+video) and pricepoints between 2499 and 6999 with more than 2 cameras (R5 and 1DX III + future R1 ).



Ironically, this is exactly what canon is almost always accused of doing with the "nerf hammer"

Edit: Quoted the wrong bit. But the fact remains, canon has been forever accused of removing features in firmware that cameras can support to protect higher end products. Reviewers (and to a lesser degree, the market) have not been kind this this perceived "strategy"


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## Famateur (Apr 22, 2020)

Before the moderators (hopefully) move the "I want a stills-only camera" horse-flogging comments to their own thread... 

Here's a thought to consider that seems to have been missed in the melee: Canon doesn't develop technology for a specific body. Canon develops technology with market needs in mind, with an overall objective of advancing what is possible. Pricing, positioning, differentiation -- all of that becomes relevant when choosing what features go into which bodies and for which target market.

Example: Dual Pixel Auto Focus wasn't developed "for" the EOS 70D. It was developed as a new technology and _introduced_ in the 70D (incidentally, the 70D pleasantly surprised everyone by launching at least $100 lower than most were predicting).

Point: Canon has been developing the Digic X architecture to fulfill a variety of needs, not least among those being data throughput. This opens the door for many features (for both stills and video), regardless of which body(ies) it goes into. The return on that investment of R&D is not being generated only by a single body or the specific bodies that utilize it to its maximum potential. The rising technology tide lifts all models, and the prices of those models combine to provide a return on that collective R&D investment while also positioning specific bodies and feature sets for different segments of the market.

In other words: The price of a stills-only camera will not be lower simply because its feature set doesn't include all the capability that available technology offers. Yes, removing the inexpensive video-centric parts might make it difficult to hack a stills-only camera to use for video, but it won't have any effect on the price because that price (and feature set) is about positioning that particular body to a particular market segment _while also_ distributing general R&D costs across product lines.

It sounds like picPerfect would like a camera with:


Moderate sensor resolution
High-end sensor design (DR, ISO, etc)
Moderate throughput (FPS) using lower-end processing architecture*
5D-like ergonomics and menu
Lower Price
Can Canon do that? Sure!

Is it wrong to want this? No!

Does Canon's market research indicate that selling a camera with such a price and feature set will contribute well to net profit? Not so far.

Could that ever change? Sure! If it ever does, we'll see that body! All the reasons why Canon doesn't are just speculation and probably not worth arguing about.

Ultimately, it appears Canon has chosen to forego making a camera body that meets picPerfect's price and feature set desires. None of us really knows why, but it's fairly safe to say that it likely has to do with Canon's decision makers concluding that offering a lower-priced, stills-only body would not be advantageous for the company in the marketplace. One can dream, though, right? 

Personally, I'm in the camp of "the stills features of the R5 look absolutely splendid, and though I'll likely rarely ever use the video features, I'm eagerly anticipating shooting with this beast and will likely buy it as soon as I've scraped my pennies together!"

_* Newer high-throughput architecture would be overkill for the moderate sensor resolution and throughput, right?_


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## eruditorum (Apr 22, 2020)

canonmike said:


> ... The more I hear about the R5, the more worried I become that the price will reflect all those awesome specs and come in between $4500-5500.00....



I share your concerns with what the price could be, but there is some history in our favor pointing to it being lower. This is not unlike the transition from 5D III to 5D IV. New higher resolution sensor. Improved AF system. Jumping from 1080 to 4K, and now from 4K to 8K. Despite all of those improvements to the 5D IV, the price stayed at $3499. It is at least possible, especially with Canon specifically saying this is in the 5 series family, that they will again come in at $3499.


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## picperfect (Apr 22, 2020)

Famateur said:


> Pricing, positioning, differentiation -- all of that becomes relevant when choosing what features go into which bodies and for which target market.


thats all i am interested in. what vametas are they going to give non/video, non-hybrid, stills-only photographers. Everything else is marketing, fanboy and shill's blather.

R5 - no. video centric. 
R6 - no. video centric.snd 20 MP in 2020. gimme a break.
R - old sensor, failed Ui experiment.
RP - old sensor, crippled.

now what?


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## picperfect (Apr 22, 2020)

stevelee said:


> A little piece of black tape could cover up the movie camera icon on the dial, and it would be easy to pretend it isn't there. I don't bother to cover it up, and I still manage to ignore it except for the once a year or so I shoot some video.



a little piece of black tape wont cover up the 1000 bucks you paid for unused 8k video specs.


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## picperfect (Apr 22, 2020)

BillB said:


> where It makes sense to differentiate might depend on the price volume curve among other things.



yes. i'll laugh very loud when R5 price leaks. lol.


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## davidhfe (Apr 22, 2020)

picperfect said:


> a little piece of black tape wont cover up the 1000 bucks you paid for unused 8k video specs.





picperfect said:


> yes. i'll laugh very loud when R5 price leaks. lol.



If the R5 launches around the 5D-series 'typical' price point ($3500 ±200) would you feel that it is not a competitive value proposition on the *basis of it's stills features alone? *If not, what would you expect to pay *for the stills features of the R5?*

Edit 1: To clarify, I understand that you're personally advocating for a generally lower spec camera all around. Fewer MP, fewer FPS, worse AF. But to me, the R5 is looking very attractive and competitive if it launches at 'typical' 5D prices.

Edit 2: My math, intro prices USD (year introduced), from wikipedia:
5D - $3299 (2005)
5D2 - $2699 (2008) _NB: Didn't realize how attractive the 5D2's price was. That 1080p video sure drove the cost up! _
5D3 - $3499 (2012)
5D4 - $3499 (2016)


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## Famateur (Apr 22, 2020)

picperfect said:


> thats all i am interested in. what vametas are they going to give non/video, non-hybrid, stills-only photographers. Everything else is marketing, fanboy and shill's blather.
> 
> R5 - no. video centric.
> R6 - no. video centric.snd 20 MP in 2020. gimme a break.
> ...



It genuinely sucks to find yourself outside of all of the market segments Canon has defined. It sucks even more if you find yourself outside of all of the market segments any manufacturer has defined. I hope, for your sake, that Canon does decide a stills-only camera is worthwhile.

If I were you, I wouldn't completely lose hope. Here's why:

1. The rising tide really does lift all models. When I bought the 70D what feels like a lifetime ago, it had the 19-point AF system of the 7D. It's not that Canon suddenly decided the 70D was in the same league as the 7D, it was just a matter of differentiation in feature set at the time, and Canon knew the 7DII would have 45 all cross-type points (or whatever it was), and moving the 70D to 19 points helped keep it above the Rebels (among other things). Same with the move from 18MP sensor to 20MP for the 70D. It wasn't better, it's just that it was long due for improvement, and again, the 7DII would have 24MP. Eventually, Canon will probably make a camera that has the stills features you want at a price you want. It will probably have video features, but if you get the still features you want and the price is right, nothing else matters, right?

2. The single-biggest reason I've held off getting a full-frame Canon for this long is that (until the 6DII, I think), Canon didn't put articulating screens on full-frame bodies. Everyone* poo-pooed articulating screens on pro/prosumer bodies back then. I feared it might never happen. Then it did. I opted not to get the 6DII, R or RP for various reasons, but now we have the R5, and I'm doing the happy dance! 

It might be a long time before Canon sells a camera with the stills features you want at the price you want, but it's bound to happen some day. Don't lose hope.

In the meantime, I'm feverishly saving pennies for the what looks to be a spectacular R5! And I'll use it almost entirely for stills...

_* Ironically, it was the video crowd that "legitimized" the articulating screen on a full-frame pro/prosumer body. For that alone, I give them (and Canon) a huge high-five! Even though I use the articulating screen entirely for stills..._


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## Ozarker (Apr 22, 2020)

picperfect said:


> a little piece of black tape wont cover up the 1000 bucks you paid for unused 8k video specs.


This is what happens when a guy refuses to see reality, when all reason and sensibility is thrown out the window. Good luck. Won't happen, ever. You are starting to embarrass yourself, my friend. There will never be a pure stills MILC or DSLR ever again. I'd say, "Get over it." But more accurately, "Get over yourself." I applaud your passion, but put that passion in a more productive place and take more fantastic stills. You are starting to clog the internet with this dead argument.


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## picperfect (Apr 22, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> If the R5 launches around the 5D-series 'typical' price point ($3500 ±200) would you feel that it is not a competitive value proposition on the *basis of it's stills features alone? *If not, what would you expect to pay *for the stills features of the R5?*



i expect it to come in at 4999 msrp. but lets wait and see. i wont buy video cams. not at 3.5 nor at 5 grand.


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## davidhfe (Apr 22, 2020)

picperfect said:


> i expect it to come in at 4999 msrp. but lets wait and see. i wont buy video cams. not at 3.5 nor at 5 grand.



OK, so that answered neither of my questions. If you're correct that the R5 clocks in at $5K USD I am 100% on board that canon screwed up. (I'd probably still personally buy it!)

But if it launches around $3500:
- Is that an appropriate price *for the stills features alone?*
- If it is not, what would you expect to pay *stills features alone* of the R5?


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## davidhfe (Apr 22, 2020)

picperfect said:


> i expect it to come in at 4999 msrp. but lets wait and see. i wont buy video cams. not at 3.5 nor at 5 grand.



Actually, a related question. Would you classify the 5D2 as a video camera?

(Another NB: I basically do product research/design for a living, albeit on digital products. I am genuinely curious about your views here)


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## sanj (Apr 22, 2020)

picperfect said:


> i expect it to come in at 4999 msrp. but lets wait and see. i wont buy video cams. not at 3.5 nor at 5 grand.


Perfect. Dont. Buy something else. There are lots of options. But many want this.


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## tpatana (Apr 22, 2020)

Sony A9ii is $4500.

The question all of you need to ask yourselves is if R5 is better camera than the Sony.

However, for marketing/sales reasons I think Canon will price it just below, probably $3999-$4299.


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## BillB (Apr 22, 2020)

You are saying the cost attributable to video is $1000 and estimate the price of the camera will be $3500-$5000. So the cost of video will be between 29 and 20 per cent of the price of the camera. The video costs are associated with developing, designing and building the camera. Say these costs are 50 per cent of getting the camera into your hands. In other words, you are saying that the costs of video make up 40 to 58 percent of getting the camera to the end of the production line. How did you come up with that?


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## yeahright (Apr 22, 2020)

BillB said:


> You are saying the cost attributable to video is $1000 and estimate the price of the camera will be $3500-$5000. So the cost of video will be between 29 and 20 per cent of the price of the camera. The video costs are associated with developing, designing and building the camera. Say these costs are 50 per cent of getting the camera into your hands. In other words, you are saying that the costs of video make up 40 to 58 percent of getting the camera to the end of the production line. How did you come up with that?


I believe @picperfect views this question purely from the customer side, i.e., her/his side. "I want this stills-only camera with specs perfect for me for a price of 2.000,-. If that camera is made available, I will buy, otherwise I won't." Any aspects on the manufacturer side - market segmentation, development costs, maximizing profit, etc. do not seem to play any part in his/her arguments.


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## brad-man (Apr 23, 2020)

I don't use the RATE button on my 5DIV. Can Canon deactivate it and give me a $25 rebate?


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## canonmike (Apr 23, 2020)

eruditorum said:


> I share your concerns with what the price could be, but there is some history in our favor pointing to it being lower. This is not unlike the transition from 5D III to 5D IV. New higher resolution sensor. Improved AF system. Jumping from 1080 to 4K, and now from 4K to 8K. Despite all of those improvements to the 5D IV, the price stayed at $3499. It is at least possible, especially with Canon specifically saying this is in the 5 series family, that they will again come in at $3499.


If you are right at $3499 price point and I hope you are, you will see a lot of happy dances going on when R5 gets released. The main question, then becomes, will you be able to actually get one???? I envision cking the on line big box camera stores and seeing the out of stock, okay to backorder box come up. Whatever the price, can't wait to get my hands on one. Appreciate your input.


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## xanbarksdale (Apr 23, 2020)

I'm genuinely curious...

For the people who are saying they're waiting for a higher MP camera than the R5, what do you need more resolution for? Seriously?

45 MP is WAY more than enough for almost anything. And if you _really_ needed it you'd probably already be shooting on a Hasselblad.

What real world scenario do you need 90 when 45 won't work?


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## SteveC (Apr 23, 2020)

xanbarksdale said:


> I'm genuinely curious...
> 
> For the people who are saying they're waiting for a higher MP camera than the R5, what do you need more resolution for? Seriously?
> 
> ...



I haven't seen much of that attitude (except for our host); I've mostly seen "This has everything I want plus a bunch of video crap that I shouldn't have to pay for" plus unwarranted assumptions as to how much that video stuff adds to the cost of the camera.


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## usern4cr (Apr 23, 2020)

xanbarksdale said:


> I'm genuinely curious...
> 
> For the people who are saying they're waiting for a higher MP camera than the R5, what do you need more resolution for? Seriously?
> 
> ...


I'm one of those that would love to have 85? MP. When I get a really nice picture or panorama I like to print it really big (sometimes almost the size of a 4'x'8' sheet). But I can only do that so often before I run out of wall space. Sometimes I like to crop smaller areas and have a result that's still got a lot of resolution. I have been into multi-picture landscape panoramas but I'm considering just taking a single picture with a wide enough lens and a single 85 MP shot if sharp would be enough to do that instead. I'm not saying 45MP isn't enough, but 85 MP would be useful.

But I have decided that the R5 is worth my getting as soon as possible, so I'm not going to wait for the 85 MP one (so that *is* saying 45MP is enough for now). Maybe a year after that the 85 MP one will be out and I can consider getting one as a 2nd body to avoid swapping lenses as much as possible - we'll see!

It's a great time to be into photography, and thank you Canon for your stunning lenses and sticking with your fully articulating LCD screen!


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## Lyn (Apr 23, 2020)

Video, Video, Video! All the hype about video tech in the R5. 
Does this thing even take stills?


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## Famateur (Apr 23, 2020)

Lyn said:


> Video, Video, Video! All the hype about video tech in the R5.
> Does this thing even take stills?



In case you're not being sarcastic (hard to tell on the internet):


45MP* New Generation Sensor
12 FPS Mechanical Shutter, 20 FPS Electronic
Dual Pixel Auto Focus
Head, Face and Eye Detection, including Dogs, Cats and Birds
In-Body Image Stabilization up to 5 Stops
Combined IBIS and Lens Stabilization up to 8 Stops
IBIS and Combined Stabilization Supports RF AND EF Lenses
Articulating Touchscreen** for Low- and High-Angle shots, both Landscape and Portrait orientation
Joystick for selecting AF points
Dual Card Slots: CFExpress for fast buffer clearing; UHSII SD for backward compatibility
5Ghz WiFi
Weather Sealed
Newer, Better Battery
The video hype is for three reasons:

The incredible video specs effectively send a message that this is a serious body with serious data processing and throughput capabilities. It is a grand showcase of what the DiGIC X architecture and RF mount can accomplish.


Since NAB was cancelled, Canon is highlighting the video side of things for the video shooters out there that otherwise would have been keenly interested in it at NAB.


For many years, people have criticized Canon (who kicked off the hybrid photo/video DSLR phenomenon with the 5DII) for not keeping up in the industry. Canon is sending the message that they have heard that criticism and intend to regain dominance in the hybrid camera space.
This appears to be a magnificent stills camera that happens to also be breaking new ground for ILC camera video as well.

_* Enough to provide great detail and cropable reach for the majority of needs while still allowing for smaller file sizes when using compressed RAW or crop modes. At full resolution you can crop almost in half (1.875x crop factor) and STILL have the resolution of the 7DII -- but with IS, shutter speed and animal eye detection AF that would leave the 7DII in the dust.

** Especially useful when using a tripod at heights that preclude the screen from being at natural eye level. My neck and shoulders are already thanking me!_


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## seasonascent (Apr 23, 2020)

"That looks like a great camera with awesome stills features that I desire in a camera. Oh and it's $3,500? I'm happy to pay that for these great photo features! ...Oh, did you say it can shoot video too? Nevermind, I won't pay a cent over $2,500 for that camera."


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## HarryFilm (Apr 23, 2020)

xanbarksdale said:


> I'm genuinely curious...
> 
> For the people who are saying they're waiting for a higher MP camera than the R5, what do you need more resolution for? Seriously?
> 
> ...



We do satellite imaging ourselves and even 100+ megapixels is too small!

The head office lab up here in Vancouver, Canada got so fed up with Dalsa, Sony, Canon, On, etc not being able to produce to our specifications, that they bought out an entire CPU/RAM production plant and brought CMOS, GaN and GaAs manufacturing in-house with some of the largest single slice silicon substrate manufacturing systems in the world (i.e. over 400mm per side!).

The LARGEST single-slice CMOS imager we have built yet is 128k by 128k pixels (131,072 by 131,072 pixels!) at 64 bits per RGBA/YCbCrA pixel depth (about 17.18 Gigapixels at about 3 microns per photosite) which is installed on a super-high-flyer aerospace-imaging-specific SSTO platform. Works Great and we even built a 128k by 128k resolution 16-bits per channel RGB colour laser projector system to see the images!

SO LOTS of people want really high resolution and even 100 megapixel IS NOT ENOUGH resolution for many tasks!

v

P.S.
AND for the kicker, we're doing RnD on 2 metre by 2 metre single silicon wafer production (2000mm by 2000mm with NO cracks, occlusions or other other imperfections -- Substrate is mounted to super-strong/super-stable with-same-thermal expansion rate ceramic base for support) so we can get 128k by 128k resolution at MUCH HIGHER dynamic range by having the photosites be a tad over 15 microns in size! That will be installed on MULTIPLE polar orbit and equatorial orbit ground-pointing AND deep space imaging satellites which we will be launching straight from OUR IN-HOUSE BUILT SSTO systems!

Now THAT is the coolest tech of all!

TRY AND BEAT THAT LMCO AND RAYTHEON !!!!!!

V


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## yeahright (Apr 23, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> We do satellite imaging ourselves and even 100+ megapixels is too small!
> 
> The head office lab up here in Vancouver, Canada got so fed up with Dalsa, Sony, Canon, On, etc not being able to produce to our specifications, that they bought out an entire CPU/RAM production plant and brought CMOS, GaN and GaAs manufacturing in-house with some of the largest single slice silicon substrate manufacturing systems in the world (i.e. over 400mm per side!).
> 
> ...


I see. Lots of people and many tasks require much higher resolution than 45 MP. That's certainly why you are describing such everyday imaging situations which even Bob from across the street might run into any time in his back yard. That's the moment when he wishes "O had I only a 128k x 128k imaging sensor in my camera, I would finally be able to make a decent image of my kids playing".


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## Kit. (Apr 23, 2020)

picperfect said:


> a little piece of black tape wont cover up the 1000 bucks you paid for unused 8k video specs.


You are getting it wrong. A little piece of black tape will be a substitute for the 1000 bucks premium for a camera marketed toward idiots that "wont buy video cams".


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## SecureGSM (Apr 23, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> But can they make an R5 with a lower price and lower video specs without said body being firmware hacked to deliver full 8k? Personally I think it's dangerous and stupid for any manufacturer to distinguish based on firmware. It's almost guaranteed to be hacked. And I don't see Canon manufacturing a separate R5 sensor or DIGIC board.
> 
> Then again...yes Canon, please ship two R5's. One at a lower price point with all the same hardware but firmware limited video to, say, 4k30. I promise I won't hack it


That's an "AvTvM Economics Modelling 101" type of logic. Admittedly, I believe this issue has been very well understood by my dog Archie by now. he lost any interest in this thread and has fallen asleep


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## SecureGSM (Apr 23, 2020)

picperfect said:


> i expect it to come in at 4999 msrp. but lets wait and see. i wont buy video cams. not at 3.5 nor at 5 grand.


If you cannot afford this camera, then why are you so concerned then? this is obviously not your cup of tea or coffee for that matter. 
get it of your chest and move on.


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## SecureGSM (Apr 23, 2020)

picperfect said:


> a little piece of black tape wont cover up the 1000 bucks you paid for unused 8k video specs.


oh, you can even partially cover up a sensor with a piece of black tape. this will convert your R5 into an APS-C camera - a perfect 7d replacement BIF / Wildlife dream rig.
Now, demand a partial refund for the unused sensor area. What its worth? $1500 for it? take it away!


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## SecureGSM (Apr 23, 2020)

Lyn said:


> Video, Video, Video! All the hype about video tech in the R5.
> Does this thing even take stills?


ah, I get it. that is the modern form of trolling Canon cameras.
not enough DR, cripple hammer, lagging behind, etc -- all this diatribe is no longer applies. so.. the "Does this thing even take stills" and " "this camera priced way too high" spiel is the new black.


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## xanbarksdale (Apr 23, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> We do satellite imaging ourselves and even 100+ megapixels is too small!
> 
> The head office lab up here in Vancouver, Canada got so fed up with Dalsa, Sony, Canon, On, etc not being able to produce to our specifications, that they bought out an entire CPU/RAM production plant and brought CMOS, GaN and GaAs manufacturing in-house with some of the largest single slice silicon substrate manufacturing systems in the world (i.e. over 400mm per side!).
> 
> ...



Well you're definitely not a good representation of the Canon user base. It would be similar to someone from NASA saying they need longer lenses...


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## yeahright (Apr 23, 2020)

xanbarksdale said:


> Well you're definitely not a good representation of the Canon user base. It would be similar to someone from NASA saying they need longer lenses...


Oh that is understatement. I bet the projects HarryFilm is working on are much higher grade than anything NASA could come up with.


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## usern4cr (Apr 23, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> We do satellite imaging ourselves and even 100+ megapixels is too small!
> 
> The head office lab up here in Vancouver, Canada got so fed up with Dalsa, Sony, Canon, On, etc not being able to produce to our specifications, that they bought out an entire CPU/RAM production plant and brought CMOS, GaN and GaAs manufacturing in-house with some of the largest single slice silicon substrate manufacturing systems in the world (i.e. over 400mm per side!).
> 
> ...


It's good to hear that people/companies in Canada can up & decide to develop such ambitious visual sensor chips, and be in a market that can sustain such development.

But since this is an online thread for average camera users (well, the remaining more affluent ones at least) I am wondering if you are considering leveraging your considerable sensor R&D to also make bigger & better sensors which could be used for future cameras for our use? There are still aggressive existing camera companies, such as Sigma, that are still trying to develop competitive cameras and may be a perfect partner for you to supply your advanced sensors to. Then they could do better, you could do better, and we could enjoy even better cameras than exist now.

You shouted out "TRY AND BEAT THAT LMCO & RAYTHEON!!!!!!". So now I challenge you to "PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS!!!!!!". Make some great sensors that make their way into a camera good enough for us to buy!


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## canonmike (Apr 23, 2020)

eruditorum said:


> I share your concerns with what the price could be, but there is some history in our favor pointing to it being lower. This is not unlike the transition from 5D III to 5D IV. New higher resolution sensor. Improved AF system. Jumping from 1080 to 4K, and now from 4K to 8K. Despite all of those improvements to the 5D IV, the price stayed at $3499. It is at least possible, especially with Canon specifically saying this is in the 5 series family, that they will again come in at $3499.


I believe that there are more than a few of us(Shooosh. Don't tell Canon) that will be happy with pricing at $3999.00, at least initially.


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## davidhfe (Apr 23, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> You shouted out "TRY AND BEAT THAT LMCO & RAYTHEON!!!!!!". So now I challenge you to "PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS!!!!!!". Make some great sensors that make there way into a camera good enough for us to buy!



I would also be very interested in this gigapixel ultra dynamic range sensor, but only once the 240fps global read version is done. Also I am hoping he can generate a new compression scheme to keep image sizes down to, oh, a few megs per shot.


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## martin_p_a (Apr 23, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> We do satellite imaging ourselves and even 100+ megapixels is too small!
> 
> The head office lab up here in Vancouver, Canada got so fed up with Dalsa, Sony, Canon, On, etc not being able to produce to our specifications, that they bought out an entire CPU/RAM production plant and brought CMOS, GaN and GaAs manufacturing in-house with some of the largest single slice silicon substrate manufacturing systems in the world (i.e. over 400mm per side!).
> 
> ...



You really haven’t lived until you’ve printed your photos on 36 feet x 36 feet canvas to be hung on the side of your apartment building. So many amateurs here calculating print sizes in inches still... lame.


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## cayenne (Apr 23, 2020)

toenails said:


> Canon making 2020 a little brighter. But serious question, how well will the battery will hold up while shooting at those specs? will probably get less than 1 hour of use shooting in 8K Raw. Hopefully they will not cripple with recording limits.



I believe that artificial limit of less than 30 min, is due largely to EU having rules that if it records 30min or greater, that it is taxed at a higher rate?

Did they get rid of that rule?


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## cayenne (Apr 23, 2020)

peters said:


> ha jeah, true! I can remember it so clearly, all these guys laughing at canon because "noboy needs the Cnon 5Ds with 50mp". And now its expected to have at least 40mpixel in any model and the 20mpixel from the 1DX III is suddenly a disaster :-D
> 
> Newer generations will allways have "more" in something and thats a good thing. One day the Megapixel war will finaly be over, but than other things will get important like even finer color details or maybe perfect 3D (without glasses).
> 
> ...



Goodness....I really don't WANT images to look 'real' like you're describing....I post process my images, to try to look *BETTER* than real life, nice contrast, colors that pop....removing unwanted objects (or people) in scenes....

I think I prefer the results of my photography projects to be more like 'art'....to give myself (and hopefully others) a break from "real life"....we get enough of that every day we wake up!!


C


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## cayenne (Apr 23, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Actually, I came from the 5D Mark III to the R as a pure stills photographer. Canon got my money and I was happy to give it. Many here have done the same. As much as I loved my 5D mark III, the R is better to me. I have taken no video with it. Is the menu system cluttered with video features? Not to me. I just skip that section of the menu and it takes zero time at all to do so. Do I bemoan the fact that I might have paid for features I'll never use? Not for a second. I'll never use auto mode for stills either. We can look at it and say that still shooters are subsidizing video shooters, but maybe it is the other way around.
> 
> It is interesting to me that you have a 5D mark III with video features, but are now complaining about not having a pure stills camera to choose. I understand what you want, but you ain't gonna get it... ever. Never. Ever. Right now, you are just beating a dead horse. While you may never buy into the R system, the fact remains that you already own the style of camera you are making protests about.  I believe the last FF Canon DSLR without video was the 5D circa 2010. They can be had on Ebay for under $300. That is the only way you are ever going to get what you are pining for. I had the same obsession as you do several years ago. I posted a thread here on this forum that I just wanted a pure stills camera and bewailed that I must surely be paying for things I'll never use. Oh well. You'll always be paying for things you'll never use unless you have a custom camera built just for you. That would run into the hundreds of thousands of dollars.
> 
> You say there are many users like yourself who want a pure stills camera. How many? How many is "many"? See, that's the problem. Not enough.



I was about to say...he could maybe look towards Leica...they're still mostly photographer centric, although most of their cameras DO have some video capabilities.

IN fact, I don't know of ANY other manufacturer that had ILC's that today don't have some sort of video capability...some more than others but from all the reviews I'm watching on YouTube (I like to watch and dream and scheme).....they ALL have VIDEO.

I'm thinking if no one else does a photo stills ONLY camera, why would Canon do so?


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## cayenne (Apr 23, 2020)

brad-man said:


> I don't use the RATE button on my 5DIV. Can Canon deactivate it and give me a $25 rebate?



Hmm...I've never needed a "flippy-tilty" screen before either....can we ditch that for another $300?


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## BillB (Apr 23, 2020)

cayenne said:


> I'm thinking if no one else does a photo stills ONLY camera, why would Canon do so?



If nobody is trying to grab the video free high quality camera market segment, maybe that is telling us something. Like maybe you can’t save much money building a camera without video. Or you can‘t get people to buy high end cameras without video, unless you sell them for less than it costs to make them. Or something.


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## usern4cr (Apr 23, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> I would also be very interested in this gigapixel ultra dynamic range sensor, but only once the 240fps global read version is done. Also I am hoping he can generate a new compression scheme to keep image sizes down to, oh, a few megs per shot.


Have you looked into the HEIF format? It's supported by Apple & Canon (and others I'm sure) but is not supported by most things I use (eg DXO photolab or Costo photo upload).


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## Sporgon (Apr 23, 2020)

What about the Nikon DF stills only camera that took the photographic world by storm in 2014 ? Demand seem to have been so high that Nikon can’t keep up with production; has anyone tried to get hold of a new one ? Or maybe it was just quietly dropped from production


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## Kit. (Apr 23, 2020)

cayenne said:


> I believe that artificial limit of less than 30 min, is due largely to EU having rules that if it records 30min or greater, that it is taxed at a higher rate?
> 
> Did they get rid of that rule?


Not yet, as I can see, but they have already lowered the import duty to 1.6% (from 4.9% before). The stills camera are duty free (VAT still applies to both).


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## peters (Apr 23, 2020)

cayenne said:


> Goodness....I really don't WANT images to look 'real' like you're describing....I post process my images, to try to look *BETTER* than real life, nice contrast, colors that pop....removing unwanted objects (or people) in scenes....
> 
> I think I prefer the results of my photography projects to be more like 'art'....to give myself (and hopefully others) a break from "real life"....we get enough of that every day we wake up!!
> 
> ...


Ha jeah, I agree  
I was strictly speaking from a technical standpoint. If the technology wants to be perfect it has to be able to mimic real life without a chance to distinguish it from photos. 
Photography is (besides some very technical reproduction jobs like uncreative pack-shots) certainly about creating something creative and some kind of art  Actualy, I think as well that this is the nice thing about photography. Workside is often less funny though :-D


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## Ozarker (Apr 23, 2020)

cayenne said:


> I was about to say...he could maybe look towards Leica...they're still mostly photographer centric, although most of their cameras DO have some video capabilities.
> 
> IN fact, I don't know of ANY other manufacturer that had ILC's that today don't have some sort of video capability...some more than others but from all the reviews I'm watching on YouTube (I like to watch and dream and scheme).....they ALL have VIDEO.
> 
> I'm thinking if no one else does a photo stills ONLY camera, why would Canon do so?


Somewhere around here he keeps mentioning Sigma cameras. I knew they make cameras, but...


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## reefroamer (Apr 24, 2020)

I’m still trying to figure out why I have to pay extra for a stupid Mode dial when all I ever need is full Auto. Cmon Canon, get out that Cripple Hammer and save me some money! And so much simpler.


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## stevelee (Apr 24, 2020)

reefroamer said:


> I’m still trying to figure out why I have to pay extra for a stupid Mode dial when all I ever need is full Auto. Cmon Canon, get out that Cripple Hammer and save me some money! And so much simpler.


Or at least remove some of the “scenes.” I don’t shoot in some of those scenarios, so why should I have to pay for them?


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## HarryFilm (Apr 24, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> It's good to hear that people/companies in Canada can up & decide to develop such ambitious visual sensor chips, and be in a market that can sustain such development.
> 
> But since this is an online thread for average camera users (well, the remaining more affluent ones at least) I am wondering if you are considering leveraging your considerable sensor R&D to also make bigger & better sensors which could be used for future cameras for our use? There are still aggressive existing camera companies, such as Sigma, that are still trying to develop competitive cameras and may be a perfect partner for you to supply your advanced sensors to. Then they could do better, you could do better, and we could enjoy even better cameras than exist now.
> 
> You shouted out "TRY AND BEAT THAT LMCO & RAYTHEON!!!!!!". So now I challenge you to "PUT YOUR MONEY WHERE YOUR MOUTH IS!!!!!!". Make some great sensors that make their way into a camera good enough for us to buy!



---

Already did that!

There's a Pro-Level Medium Format Combined Stills and Video Camera with a 56 mm x 42 mm Global Shutter sensor at 50.3 megapixels (8192 x 6144 pixels) at 16-bits per channel 4:4:4:4 RGBA RAW with a 4:3 aspect ratio used for stills that also records DCI 8K (8192 x 4320 pixels) video at 16-bits per RGBA/YCbCrA (64-bit colour) at up to FULL 4:4:4:4 RAW 60 fps (up to 240 fps if you lower the colour depth to 4:2:2) that is coming out soon enough. Both will come out with a very nice f/1.0 50 mm cinema prime lens (i.e. YES! it's an F/1.0 with proper iris and focus rings, T-stop divisions AND no breathing) as part of the above prices! The larger locking-mount sizes allow much faster lenses to made MUCH EASIER AND CHEAPER than on EF, RF or E-mounts!

It has Intraframe and Interframe Video and Still Wavelet Compression and common output file formats and frame sizes at various user-specified colour bit-depths and frames rates. It will be priced at $8888 US. There is a 2nd camera that is the Full Frame version where the only difference from the above is the sensor and lens mount size. It will be set at $5555 US. Both cameras have the fancy handgrips and swivel OLED DCI 4K live view screen AND digital OLED viewfinder which will work VERY WELL for pro-level sports, action, wildlife, portrait, landscape AND do high-end pro-level video with all the image monitoring goodies and video/audio/data inputs/outputs you could want and need!

AND THERE ARE ALSO

Two IP-68/Mil-Spec 810-G rugged form-factor large-sensor 8K Super-Smartphones where one has a 2/3rds inch sensor and the other has an APS-C sized sensor on the back. (Smaller 12 and 16 megapixel ones on the front). They have DCI 4K 120 Hz OLED touchscreens with high-level stills and video capabilities and lots of RAM memory and onboard storage (and extra dual storage cards and multiple USB 3.1 connectors for add-on drive space) that are GREAT for games, apps, video, audio, realtime data, etc.

AND FINALLY THERE ARE

A series of desktop supercomputer systems coming out with One to Sixteen Processors on the motherboards where each 128-bits wide combined CPU/GPU/DSP chip has 1024 single-threaded 128-bits wide cores (i.e. 1024 threads) with onboard array-processor 128-bits wide Signed and Unsigned Integer, Floating Point, Fixed Point values processing and 4-bit/8-bits per number BCD (Binary Coded Decimal) math acceleration. At 575 TeraFLOPS PER CHIP, these are the fastest desktop CPUs ever made BLOWING AWAY every Intel, AMD, Samsung, ARM, UltraSPARC, MIPS, IBM Power-9/10 etc cpu out there!

All this is coming out soon enough!

YUP! We put our money where our mouth is!

And we designed, coded and manufactured it ALL right here in Vancouver, British Columbia, Canada (i.e. fully ITAR-free!)

AND for the kicker, we do have an in-house-built SSTO (look it up!) for our own imaging caopabilities. These take the largest digital photos ever at 128k by 128k resolution at 64-bit colour RGB + Radar Distance pixel (i.e. 17+ gigapixels) AND YOU HERE ON CANONRUMORS will get the imaging gear and tech benefit of some eccentric 50+ megamillionaire who keeps under the radar and keeps funding our crazy research and development antics! (I would say he is the Canadian version of Jim Jannard who founded Oakley and Red Camera, but is a LOT MORE PRIVATE and secretive in his projects --- He's not a multi-billionaire, but he has enough cash to hire the best local all-Canadian computer systems, aerospace and imaging talent around!)

It's a SWEET DEAL for me --- I designed and coded the fancy Wavelet codec and YOU get to see its results !!!

V


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## SecureGSM (Apr 24, 2020)

reefroamer said:


> I’m still trying to figure out why I have to pay extra for a stupid Mode dial when all I ever need is full Auto. Cmon Canon, get out that Cripple Hammer and save me some money! And so much simpler.


That would be the Canon R6, Sir! And how are you paying for this today?


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## reefroamer (Apr 24, 2020)

Purely sarcasm, sir. This is the first time on this form where I’ve seen people actually arguing for Canon to get out the so-called Cripple Hammer and reduce the features of a new, greatly-improved product.


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## SecureGSM (Apr 24, 2020)

reefroamer said:


> Purely sarcasm, sir. This is the first time on this form where I’ve seen people actually arguing for Canon to get out the so-called Cripple Hammer and reduce the features of a new, greatly-improved product.


yup.. some folks need a justification for ditching the R5. So they keep coming up with more and more "innovative" ideas around what they are unhappy with: be that inclusion of video features, price will be too high, or whatever. I see a trend here. It is a new normal


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## usern4cr (Apr 24, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> ---
> 
> Already did that!
> 
> ...


After reading your response, there was so much far-out stuff claimed that I first thought that this was a really good practical joke. On second thought it must be an April 1st joke. On third thought it's too late for that so maybe it's just an April month joke. On fourth thought I'm starting to wonder if you're actualy serious (at the great peril of being the the butt of enormous laughter at possibly taking this seriously).

I happen to be a retired video arcade programmer & designer and video console programmer, so I've had a lot of experience in the earlier days of technology that touches on what you mention. So I've got a few comments to mention about what you've said:

I did a lot of work on image compression. My favorite technique for fast stills compression & decompression was wavelet compression. So your mention of it made me wonder if this is for real.

You mentioned a 575 teraflop per chip development. I did a lot of low level assembly programming on advanced 128 bit SIMD (single instruction multiple data) processors. The one thing you mentioned which makes me wonder about your story is your use of BCD (binary coded decimal) - whose usage seems an echo of long ago years and I see no use for it in current designs, and it makes me think this is indeed a ruse. Feel free to convince me otherwise.

You mentioned your company has an in-house SSTO (single stage to orbit) reusable vehicle which you imply is currently working for your use. Does this have anything to do with SWALA Aerospace, or John Hollaway? This is a really really far out thing to say your company has working. So please convince me otherwise.

You have mentioned a ton of inside information about remarkable technoloy, without mentioning the company for verification. But anyone in your industry should be able to figure out who it is by the city and details you've mentioned. So why not mention it here? All in all, you can see why I am very wary of the validity of what you mention.

Your statements are remarkable, either in the very advanced technology developed if true, or the sheer informed brilliance of your ruse if not. When this pandemic and travel restrictions are over, I (& my wife) are planning a trip to the Glacier N.P. and Banff areas as well as the Pacific northwest of the US & Canada. If what you say it true, I would love to stop by and meet you, and get a tour of your facilities if that's allowed. ... Interested?


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## davidhfe (Apr 24, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> There's a Pro-Level Medium Format Combined Stills and Video Camera with a 56 mm x 42 mm Global Shutter sensor at 50.3 megapixels (8192 x 6144 pixels) at 16-bits per channel 4:4:4:4 RGBA RAW with a 4:3 aspect ratio used for stills that also records DCI 8K (8192 x 4320 pixels) video at 16-bits per RGBA/YCbCrA (64-bit colour) at up to FULL 4:4:4:4 RAW 60 fps (up to 240 fps if you lower the colour depth to 4:2:2) that is coming out soon enough.



Why on earth would a camera record RGBA files? What are you using the alpha channel for??


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## usern4cr (Apr 24, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> Why on earth would a camera record RGBA files? What are you using the alpha channel for??


I could see using the alpha channel to record depth, for a depth mask for the image.


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## davidhfe (Apr 24, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> I could see using the alpha channel to record depth, for a depth mask for the image.



So this 240fps global gigapixel sensor ALSO has a LIDAR array or stereo imaging to produce a depth map. Got it!


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## Dragon (Apr 24, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> So this 240fps global gigapixel sensor ALSO has a LIDAR array or stereo imaging to produce a depth map. Got it!


No, but it might have DPAF .


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## davidhfe (Apr 24, 2020)

Dragon said:


> No, but it might have DPAF .



Is DPRAW enough information to build a depth map with? To drag this conversation back to reality, given the frame rates the R5 is supposedly able to crunch, DPRAW could be a lot more usable on this camera.


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## cayenne (Apr 24, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> Have you looked into the HEIF format? It's supported by Apple & Canon (and others I'm sure) but is not supported by most things I use (eg DXO photolab or Costo photo upload).



Why aren't you shooting RAW?

Just curious....not much need these days with disk space being cheap, etc. 

cayenne


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## davidhfe (Apr 24, 2020)

cayenne said:


> Why aren't you shooting RAW?
> 
> Just curious....not much need these days with disk space being cheap, etc.
> 
> cayenne



I was joking about the compression scheme needed to keep harryfilm's supposed gigapixel images manageable. Wasn't a real question


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## usern4cr (Apr 24, 2020)

cayenne said:


> Why aren't you shooting RAW?
> 
> Just curious....not much need these days with disk space being cheap, etc.
> 
> cayenne


I do shoot raw. In fact, I only shoot raw.

But I'm forced to pass files around in post (DXO photolab) to print as jpgs (whose quality isn't as good as I'd like) or tiffs (that bloat up the storage too much). When I make huge panoramas in Ptgui I can use psb format to pass them to Affinity Photo which handles the huge files. There may be better ways to do things with Adobe software, but when they forced everyone to pay high monthly fees for their Creative Cloud platform I decided it was time to wash my hands of them and seek other post software. That's just my decision, and I mean no disrespect for those still using it.

What I'd like is for the camera to take raws, and have all the post processing and uploading be in heif format. And if the camera does some special processing, like multi-picture blending together as a software way to do long exposure neutral density filtering, it could save a single heif file which could be in an even higher pixel bit-depth & more noise-reduced image than the raw format allows.


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## Dragon (Apr 24, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> Is DPRAW enough information to build a depth map with? To drag this conversation back to reality, given the frame rates the R5 is supposedly able to crunch, DPRAW could be a lot more usable on this camera.


Agreed. If it can shoot 8k concurrently with DPAF, there is a LOT of data throughput capacity. If DPAF can tell a lens where to focus, then, yes there ought to be enough info to at least build a rudimentary depth map.


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## usern4cr (Apr 24, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> So this 240fps global gigapixel sensor ALSO has a LIDAR array or stereo imaging to produce a depth map. Got it!


Well, if I had access to the R&D that has been claimed, I would probably have access to enough technology, possibly additional small cellphone-like lenses & 3D sensing software, to create a fast accurate depth map. Or maybe they just quickly scan the whole range of focus of the main lens to do it if they want the max. resolution, otherwise use whatever depth resolution they get from the DP or QP(quad pixel) etc sensor.


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## dash2k8 (Apr 25, 2020)

Stone said:


> If it makes you money then by all means go for it. I have no problem with being on the cutting edge, I'm simply considering profit vs investment ratio. I'd love to see your work, I'm a fan of all good photography & video.


I hear you, bro. To each his own. For people who can take advantage of it, 8K is handy. For those who don't need it, obviously this camera isn't for them.


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## dash2k8 (Apr 25, 2020)

tpatana said:


> We don't know yet how the actual footage quality looks on R5. Many cameras have great specs on paper but the actual footage is not great, due to some bad compression, lousy codec or something.
> 
> But yes, the specs looks very good. For my personal use I'm still curious if the 1080p will go beyond 120fps. If yes, next question is if it's still does DPAF. One of my disappointments with 5D4 was that DPAF worked only up to 60fps.


I'm going to give Canon the benefit of the doubt because they've consistently undersold their tech specs for many years now, even though their products consistently do great work. This is why people also berate Canon for not having enough bells and whistles like the other brands. So the fact that Canon dares to publish these numbers so loudly, I think it's a show of confidence.


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## SteveC (Apr 25, 2020)

dash2k8 said:


> I hear you, bro. To each his own. For people who can take advantage of it, 8K is handy. For those who don't need it, obviously this camera isn't for them.



Or it IS for them due to other things it does have. Especially if they are adult enough to know they can just ignore a feature they have no use for. (*couigh* *cough*)

(For what it's worth, I do a fair amount of casual video...for example, photographing an animal at the zoo then taking video if it happens to be moving. I don't expect to ever sell the videos or anything like that; they're basically for my own enjoyment. And for that, 1920x1080 is just fine. I guess one could call it 2K.)


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## HarryFilm (Apr 25, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> After reading your response, there was so much far-out stuff claimed that I first thought that this was a really good practical joke. On second thought it must be an April 1st joke. On third thought it's too late for that so maybe it's just an April month joke. On fourth thought I'm starting to wonder if you're actualy serious (at the great peril of being the the butt of enormous laughter at possibly taking this seriously).
> 
> I happen to be a retired video arcade programmer & designer and video console programmer, so I've had a lot of experience in the earlier days of technology that touches on what you mention. So I've got a few comments to mention about what you've said:
> 
> ...



---

Binary Coded Decimal I was using in a LOT of Turbo Pascal and Turbo Prolog work where I was dealing with the equivalent of multi-thousand-bit sized integer, fixed point and floating point values for mostly Defence-related A.I. and Deep Aerospace Applications. BCD is actually STILL NEEDED for work at sub-atomic scales and macrocosmic scale for scientific visualization purposes when DOWN or UP-SCALING extremely small or extremely large numbers and then converting the BCDs to fit within 128-bit integer and real number values. We put BCD in because there are a LOT of values used in modern science that STILL does NOT FIT in even a 128-bit value! 

We mostly use it for Plasmadynamic simulations and Quantum-Chromodynamic physics exploration where we are exploring (and Manipulating!) the very underlying fabric of SPACE AND TIME!!! --- SOMEONE has to design that fancy HUUUUUUGE-number processing code that calculates the initial or resulting energy values and superposition/pathways of virtual particles being created out of "nothing" as membranes hit each other or strings collide within their 21 dimensional non-Euclidean space! -- THAT WOULD BE ME! 

We also don't want to accidentally nucleate a Vacuum Meta-instability Event and destroy the present universe via an expanding bubble of no-longer-false-vacuum, so we need to ACCURATELY calculate the precision of a number of Tera-Electron-Volt limit variables necessary to guard the Earth and this Universe from ACCIDENTAL TOTAL ANNIHILATION!

In terms of validating the NAME of our company, actually YOU WILL NOT BE ABLE TO !!!! We are completely under the radar and only a Revenue Canada investigation (i.e. only CRA aka the Canadian Government knows!) would be able to dig out the name of the owner(s).

In terms of 575 TeraFLOPS 128 bits wide GaAs superchip, THAT IS OUR SMALL ONE --- We're almost finished on the TWO THz (Two TeraHertz) version which will be a FULL 19.2 PetaFLOPS at 128-bits wide on a combined GaAs/GaN on Ceramic base substrate PER CHIP !!!

I never worked on Prodigy or Black Ops games and neither am I a Marcus Fenix Gears of War fan! BUT I am a low level systems coder with a WHOLE LOT of experience with Realtime 4K/8K/16k/32k/64k/128k resolution Video Capture/Compress/Encrypt/Transmit/Display systems and Realtime Vision Recognition Aerospace applications and hardware!

In terms of finding more about us, I can tell you that we've hid a full size 60 Ghz GaAs 119 ExaFLOP supercomputer (the world's FASTEST by the way!) in an underground facility by the PNE in East Vancouver from even various state-level agencies! They STILL haven't been able to find it EVEN AFTER stationing some bored multi-country lackeys in the Acura MDX, Mercs, Bimmers and Chevy in the parking lot of my Day Job (which has utterly NOTHING to do with my UNPAID off-hours "work" at my friend's facilities!) to follow me home and elsewhere! 

They can't even find our hangar which I have EXPLICITY STATED ONLINE is at YVR in Richmond! There is an SSTO craft sitting there in almost PLAIN SIGHT yet they STILL cannot find or see it! So ANYONE ELSE trying to find out where and who we are would have some SIGNIFICANT difficulty! AND .... we have NOTHING to do with SWALA Aerospace or John Hollaway. We are entirely Canadian-based with offices across the country who does highly-specific scientific inquiry and specialty research and development jobs for certain clients that don't like being named!

Anyways, we are introducing some AWESOME imaging software products first that take video and stills processing to the next level, so you will be able to find out ALL ABOUT US in a short little while! Sooooo, I respectfully decline a tour of our factory. (it also happens to be my friend's factory NOT MINE, so I have no say in who gets in or out --- I don't even "officially" work there --- I just do "technical favours" for him!)

Complicated Isn't It?!

P.S. It's all REAL !!!

V


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## SecureGSM (Apr 25, 2020)

++++ We are completely under the radar and only a Revenue Canada investigation (i.e. only CRA aka the Canadian Government knows!) would be able to dig out the name of the owner(s).
A.M.: Harry is the official Company nominated CR forum member responsible for the interstellar public relationships and also development of all the above top secret Space Command software development projects...

++++ It's all REAL !!! 
A.M.: Who would have thought...


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## HarryFilm (Apr 25, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> Why on earth would a camera record RGBA files? What are you using the alpha channel for??



Alpha Channel is actually used as a DISTANCE channel during recording where the 16-bits represents millimetres, centimetres, metres or other user-specified measurement units taken from an infrared scanning device similar to (but NOT the same!) as a Microsoft Kinect 3D scanning system built into the camera and lens system itself OR we take the distance information from an external long-range (multi-KM+) RF or Millimetre wave 3D-XYZ scanning devices attached directly to the camera. This allows VFX personnel to KNOW WHERE in 3D-XYZ space an actor or object is during filming of a scene and then MATCH that position and movement during insertion of VFX (Visual Effects) elements such as CGI cars, persons, buildings, etc.

We also use it for collision avoidance in aerospace applications and for realtime 4K/8K video object tracking. My software is capable of REALTIME automatic 3D-XYZ SOBEL edge detection, tracking, pixel-to-vector curve/line conversion and automated object recognition (and subsequent targeting/fire-control!) at up to 65,000+ SEPARATE OBJECTS PER SECOND based upon a current 200,000+ object library of comparison 3D vector objects representing planes, trains, ships, cars, trucks, buildings, ordnance, terrain, submarines, spacecraft and even people!

AND if you want to, you could also use it for plain-old ALPHA TRANSPARENCY CHANNEL purposes to composite digital objects and sets into a real-world actors and sets based upon user-specified distances or as simple image layering.

THAT is why we record RGBA or YCbCrA at up to 16 bits per channel! The more bits you set, the more distance accuracy you get!

V


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## HarryFilm (Apr 25, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> ++++ We are completely under the radar and only a Revenue Canada investigation (i.e. only CRA aka the Canadian Government knows!) would be able to dig out the name of the owner(s).
> A.M.: Harry is the official Company nominated CR forum member responsible for the interstellar public relationships and also development of all the above top secret Space Command software development projects...
> 
> ++++ It's all REAL !!!
> A.M.: Who would have thought...




That statement is more true than you think ....  ;-) 

V


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## HarryFilm (Apr 25, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> So this 240fps global gigapixel sensor ALSO has a LIDAR array or stereo imaging to produce a depth map. Got it!




The 400 mm by 400mm CMOS image array YES does have a separate 3D scanning system (which is Multi-GHz RADAR when you're at FL3000 and above!)

The upcoming 50.3 megapixel MF camera system has a kind-of-like a Microsoft Kinect but to avoid being subject to various MS patents, we've had to make modifications to the scanning array by going a little more old-school from the early-to-mid 1990's era BUT it is full enclosed within the new MF camera itself and it automatically merges its 3D-XYZ depth scanning data with the RGBA/YCbCrA Alpha Channel which can be up to 16-bits in size which is quite-accurate for near-field distancing applications even for use as a general 3D object scanner within 3D modeling and animation programs!

V


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## Chris.Chapterten (Apr 25, 2020)

Holy shit, what does any of this have to do with the R5? Just a little off track...


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## freejay (Apr 25, 2020)

To all who don't need/want video: The thing is this: I think we e.g. only have good EVFs now and 20 pictures per second and DPAF and superior AF in general BECAUSE video became part of cameras. Video didn't work with optical viewfinders so they had to become EVFs. For faster video frame rates sensors and processing engines were updated significantly and now also the photos-only-users benefit from 20 pictures per second, 30 p raw bursts, enhanced AF and so forth. I doubt we'd have these possibilities as photographers already if there was no integration of video in photo cameras.


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## HarryFilm (Apr 25, 2020)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> Holy shit, what does any of this have to do with the R5? Just a little off track...



---

This discussion is being played out here on the R5 thread BECAUSE new super large sensor Medium Format camera, large sensor super-smartphone and 128-bit desktop supercomputing technology is about to be released showcasing that Canon, Sony, Fuji, Nikon, Panasonic, Arri, Hasselblad, Phase One, Olympus and even Pentax ARE NOT the only games in town!

Someone much bigger and more aggressive is coming out to play and THEIR upcoming new products will UTTERLY SHOCK YOU ALL into a stone cold draw-dropping stupor !!!

Don't get me wrong! This new Canon R5 is a FANTASTIC PRODUCT for it's upcoming body-only price point of probably around $3600 US! If you're a Youtube vLogger or a New York/London/Hong Kong/Berlin/Tokyo/Vancouver/Moscow hipster documentary, studio or street photographer or a debutante film school grad, then THIS Canon R5 is the camera you want for your 24 fps 8k cinema videos and/or your Studio-quality 36 inch Prints!

HOWEVER, what is coming out fairly soon now, are the SUPER PRO-LEVEL CAMERA AND COMPUTER SYSTEMS that will take video and still photography to THE NEXT LEVEL !!!! What is coming out is a NEW WORLD of Video-centric AR (Augmented Reality), VR (Virtual Reality) and Premium-level Stills photography that will SURPASS ALL that is currently offered by Arri Alexa and Sony Venice for video and that from Phase One/Hasselblad/Fuji for medium format stills!

What is coming IS THE BIG KAHUNA BURGER of Combined Video/Stills MF cameras and large sensor super-smartphones AND I can definitely tell you that this IS a tasty burger!

And YOU WILL wash all of it down with this tasty beverage of very alcoholic red fruit drink cider!

AND YOU WILL VAROCIOUSLY ENJOY PAYING DEARLY FOR IT ALL !!!

Thank You and Good Night!

V


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## brad-man (Apr 25, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> ---
> 
> This discussion is being played out here on the R5 thread BECAUSE new super large sensor Medium Format camera, large sensor super-smartphone and 128-bit desktop supercomputing technology is about to be released showcasing that Canon, Sony, Fuji, Nikon, Panasonic, Arri, Hasselblad, Phase One, Olympus and even Pentax ARE NOT the only games in town!
> 
> ...


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## BillB (Apr 25, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> ---
> 
> This discussion is being played out here on the R5 thread BECAUSE new super large sensor Medium Format camera, large sensor super-smartphone and 128-bit desktop supercomputing technology is about to be released showcasing that Canon, Sony, Fuji, Nikon, Panasonic, Arri, Hasselblad, Phase One, Olympus and even Pentax ARE NOT the only games in town!
> 
> ...


Maybe something this big and space consuming should have its own thread ( or even its own forum). It shouldn’t have to compete with distracting trivia like the upcoming R5.


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## privatebydesign (Apr 25, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> Good Night!
> 
> V


That would be welcome and is probably the only thing you have said I'd embrace or you got right.


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## BeenThere (Apr 25, 2020)

Just hoping the new R5 arrives before Harry destroys the Universe.


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## HarryFilm (Apr 25, 2020)

BeenThere said:


> Just hoping the new R5 arrives before Harry destroys the Universe.



---

Don't worry! You won't feel a thing! 

A light-speed nucleating bubble of true vacuum where the current laws of gravity, the strong force, the weak force and electromagnetism no longer work or even apply will collapse your neural circuits into anti-universe oblivion at Planck's Time Scales so you will NOT EVEN BE ABLE TO CLUE INTO the final Nth thought of your nascent and eternal nothingness!

It will just like the series end of "The Sopranos"!






Meh!

V


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## unfocused (Apr 25, 2020)

@HarryFilm, please for your own sake, start taking your meds again.


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## brad-man (Apr 25, 2020)

unfocused said:


> @HarryFilm, please for your own sake, start taking your meds again.


He can't. That would destroy _his_ universe...


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## HarryFilm (Apr 25, 2020)

brad-man said:


> He can't. That would destroy _his_ universe...



--

Please do remember! YOU all here are a figment of my imagination. A drop-shipped box of quasi-lucid musings and pontifications with much ado about something or other! Whatever Camera or Camera/Lens Manufacturer YOU believe in, set your iris to WIDE OPEN and focal length to full wide! This online life of yours is about to get a WHOLE LOT MORE INTERESTING !!!!

May the sharpest f-Stop be with you all always!

giggly giggly goo!

V


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## SteveC (Apr 25, 2020)

Now I know you're not only full of it, but you know you're full of it.


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## HarryFilm (Apr 25, 2020)

SteveC said:


> Now I know you're not only full of it, but you know you're full of it.



---

Are you sure? 

I'm quite sure that what spews forth here is neither ferd scheisse nor lemon grass tea but rather pure acid on the finances of the many companies mentioned previously. I have the secrets of the Universe at my fingertips! I also have a set of BEAUTIFUL large sensor super-smartphones sitting on a table behind me and a SWEEEEEEET 50.3 megapixel MF global shutter video/stills camera that will make even Arri blush green with envy!

When that bitten-fruit company FINALLY gets back into their currently furloughed glass-walled edifice to a donut, I think more than a few of the companies pontificating over my sly musings will suddenly find themselves shaking with rage if not outright financial fear at what is coming out of those haloed glassy halls built to praise and worship all that is of rounded metal corners!

These NEW systems are your gateways and stairways to mobile Medium Format Global Shutter video production and still photography heaven.

Praise Be and Blessed Be The Fruit!

*Nolite te bastardes carborundorum

Veni Vidi Vici!*

Tuoque Pene Infesto Carpe!

*V*


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## Dragon (Apr 25, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> ---
> 
> Are you sure?
> 
> ...


One of the down sides of Coronavirus is that it leaves people with waaaaay too much time on their hands (and their minds).


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## SteveC (Apr 25, 2020)

I'm sure, because you just made the mistake of trying to sound like you knew physics, to someone who actually knows some physics. It's babble, and I know it.



HarryFilm said:


> ---
> 
> Are you sure?


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## TAF (Apr 26, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> We do satellite imaging ourselves and even 100+ megapixels is too small!
> 
> The head office lab up here in Vancouver, Canada got so fed up with Dalsa, Sony, Canon, On, etc not being able to produce to our specifications, that they bought out an entire CPU/RAM production plant and brought CMOS, GaN and GaAs manufacturing in-house with some of the largest single slice silicon substrate manufacturing systems in the world (i.e. over 400mm per side!).
> 
> ...



Please do let us know when your single stage to orbit craft is scheduled to fly, since that is an even more impressive feat than the large image sensor, and would be amazing to see.


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## HarryFilm (Apr 27, 2020)

SteveC said:


> I'm sure, because you just made the mistake of trying to sound like you knew physics, to someone who actually knows some physics. It's babble, and I know it.




I'm a graphics and vision systems programmer and a video production specialist. 

I am NOT a physicist!

HOWEVER, the workers I have access to ARE physicists (i.e. with Ph.D after their names!) Nuclear Physics, some Organic and Nuclear Chemists, Computational Neurobiologists, Actual Licenced Neurosurgical and Orthopedic-specialty Medical Doctors, various MSc.EE (Electrical Engineers), Astronomers, long-flight-hour pilots/astronauts, mechanical engineers, CAD/CAM/FEA specialists and a few other technical personnel I can ask questions of.

YOU should especially know something about the debate as to whether space is only metastable being a false vacuum or not and whether the collision of heavy nuclei at high energy levels past 146 Tera-Electron Volts may impart enough tip-over energy into the current local metastable vacuum to cause it to cascade failure down to an even lower energy state (i.e. down to a true vacuum or another lower but still-nested metastable energy level) bubble which will then expand at the speed of light changing many of the universe's physical constants as it nucleates and expands destroying everything in its path.

Sooooooo, how many peer-reviewed experiments have YOU performed at Stanford, Brookhaven, CERN or TRIUMF ???

I think my co-workers are into the many hundreds now with many EXABYTES of experimental data number-crunched through!

v


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## HarryFilm (Apr 27, 2020)

TAF said:


> Please do let us know when your single stage to orbit craft is scheduled to fly, since that is an even more impressive feat than the large image sensor, and would be amazing to see.



---

It uses a breakthrough propulsion system similar to another series of aerospace craft made by Northrup and LMCO. It's been flying for quite some time now at FL3000 and above. These three craft have sometimes passed each other flying at the same time .......... !!! (far apart of course!)

I may be only a JAFO photographer, but I STILL GET MY WINGS !!!!

V


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## Sharlin (Apr 27, 2020)

Seeing how this thread has somewhat… devolved, allow me to indulge in a bit of humor.

THIS JUST IN: EOS R5 DEAD ON ARRIVAL


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## davidhfe (Apr 27, 2020)

Sharlin said:


> Seeing how this thread has somewhat… devolved, allow me to indulge in a bit of humor.
> 
> THIS JUST IN: EOS R5 DEAD ON ARRIVAL



No IBIS. Weird card slots. Kinefinity is doooomed!


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## SteveC (Apr 28, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> ---
> 
> It uses a breakthrough propulsion system similar to another series of aerospace craft made by Northrup and LMCO. It's been flying for quite some time now at FL3000 and above. These three craft have sometimes passed each other flying at the same time .......... !!! (far apart of course!)
> 
> ...



More BS. Something like that would be classified. You'd go to prison, unless your real name is Hillary Clinton.


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## HarryFilm (Apr 28, 2020)

SteveC said:


> More BS. Something like that would be classified. You'd go to prison, unless your real name is Hillary Clinton.




It's based upon 30+ year old technology which is long past patentability!

And me being in CANADA, I am NOT subject to U.S. Secrecy Orders. And this system is all-Canadian designed and manufactured (aka is fully ITAR-free!) and will be disclosed and then COMMERCIALIZED in full !!! 

We are also insane enough to OPEN SOURCE THE ENTIRE power and propulsion systems in full with their entire CAD/CAM/FEA designs/plans and manufacturing instructions available for ALL to see, download and use to their heart's delight! 

We really do have a LOT of "New Stuff" ready to introduce to bring humans a few thousand years forward. 

WE CAN AND WILL DO IT !!!

It's gonna be very hard to argue with imagery of a black triangle floating silently and doing outlandish (but safe!) maneuvers in Vancouver's English Bay on a sunny day once the crowds become numerous enough again to take the multiple videos and photos which will go very viral very quickly! We won't bother with a news conference! The designs and live demo will be done at the spur of the moment and will simply APPEAR in public and on a soon-to-be website.

It will also be VERY DIFFICULT TO ARGUE AGAINST live 60 fps DCI 4k and DCI 8K video feeds from 50 km above the ISS with the Earth's landscape below moving quickly by in all its splendour !!!

V


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## cayenne (Apr 28, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> I do shoot raw. In fact, I only shoot raw.
> 
> But I'm forced to pass files around in post (DXO photolab) to print as jpgs (whose quality isn't as good as I'd like) or tiffs (that bloat up the storage too much). When I make huge panoramas in Ptgui I can use psb format to pass them to Affinity Photo which handles the huge files. There may be better ways to do things with Adobe software, but when they forced everyone to pay high monthly fees for their Creative Cloud platform I decided it was time to wash my hands of them and seek other post software. That's just my decision, and I mean no disrespect for those still using it.
> 
> What I'd like is for the camera to take raws, and have all the post processing and uploading be in heif format. And if the camera does some special processing, like multi-picture blending together as a software way to do long exposure neutral density filtering, it could save a single heif file which could be in an even higher pixel bit-depth & more noise-reduced image than the raw format allows.



Interesting.

I might point out, that Affinity Photo handles RAW images too....you might experiment with bringing them in to AP RAW instead of DxO and that would keep your workflow a bit simpler?

Just a thought,

C


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## pj1974 (May 6, 2020)

cayenne said:


> Interesting.
> 
> I might point out, that Affinity Photo handles RAW images too....you might experiment with bringing them in to AP RAW instead of DxO and that would keep your workflow a bit simpler?
> 
> ...



I have and use both Affinity Photo and DxO. While I love Affinity Photo (I mainly use it for editing specific files, and for panoramas and focus-stacking) - I will admit that RAW conversation is not its strong point. There are many other converters / programs that handle RAW files (including Canon CR2s) better.

DxO does a decent job in its batch flow of processing / converting RAW files - with good latitude for colour science and noise reduction / noise handling, etc. But DxO and Affinity Photo are different software packages - for different purposes (that's why I have both).

PJ


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