# Canon EOS 7D Mark III to Have Slight Crop in 4K [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 3, 2018)

```
We’re told that the Canon EOS 7D Mark III, which will be Canon’s first APS-C 4K camera, will have a slight crop when shooting in 4K.</p>
<p>As for frame rates, do not expect anything more than 30fps in 4K, and 60fps in 1080P.</p>


<p>There has been no mention of whether or not this camera will get a CFast slot. The EOS-1D X Mark II does, while the EOS 5D Mark IV does not. We’d like to see the EOS 7D Mark III get a CFast slot along with an SD slot.</p>
<p>We don’t yet have a solid announcement timeframe for the 7D Mark III, we hope to solve that riddle soon.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## transpo1 (Jan 3, 2018)

What a shock! Canon keeping frame rates to a minimum and implementing a crop in 4K? I don't believe it. 

I predict this will have the same MJPEG 4K of the 5DIV and I'd be surprised if they put in 1080 120fps. I'd like to be optimistic but Canon has given us no reason to believe otherwise. 

However, they'd have a smash hit if they pulled out the stops and gave us a decent 4K codec with no crop, 4K 60p and 120fps 1080 with built-in Clog.

Not holding my breath, though- their track record speaks for itself.


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## bsbeamer (Jan 3, 2018)

Depending on the amount of "slight" this may not be too drastic or different from Super35. Will wait to see. More concerned with codec support at this point. The 5D4 at 4K is nearly useless for longform shooting with small crews due to the data overload and post-processing that needs to be done just to work with the footage. Works great as a 1080HD camera, however.


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## Daan Stam (Jan 3, 2018)

that means there is probably no chance for the 90d to become a video hit with 4k 60p and a decent codec without crop. Not that i was expecting that, canon usually doesn't like to make camera's as good as they can be. a small crop wouldt be too much of a problem but it isn't nice. 

also canon please do add things like waveforms, focus peaking, c-log and nice slow motion. as a paid upgrade or seperate camera if necessary.


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## ahsanford (Jan 3, 2018)

This just in: Canon EOS 7D Mark III to Have Slight Crop in Sales [CR9]

- A


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## ethanz (Jan 3, 2018)

Does it really matter? I don't picture the 7D as targeted to video shooters.


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## ahsanford (Jan 3, 2018)

ethanz said:


> Does it really matter? I don't picture the 7D as targeted to video shooters.



Some believe the APS-C flagship should be the _best in everything_ APS-C camera. The notion that a 7D3 is better than a (future) 90D in stills but is second fiddle to that 90D in video doesn't sit well with them. 

These are often the same folks saying that Canon needs a good/better/best tier-ing of FF non-gripped bodies like Nikon and (to a lesser extent) Sony: a perfect clarity of value proposition in which if you pay more, you get more on _every_ front: resolution, framerate, buffer size, video features, etc.

(FTR, I am not one of these people. I think Canon shrewdly brands around camps of photography markets and just play the simple good/better/best card to their financial benefit. They are very good at this.)

- A


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## unfocused (Jan 3, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> ethanz said:
> 
> 
> > Does it really matter? I don't picture the 7D as targeted to video shooters.
> ...



On the other hand, I've long argued that the XXD line should be the dominant video line. Keep the 7D as the premier action and wildlife crop sensor body for stills and put the video-centric features into the flip-screened XXD line. 

On a side note, might the "slight crop" be the difference between the 5DIV 1.7 video crop and the traditional 1.6 crop factor?


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## rrcphoto (Jan 3, 2018)

unfocused said:


> On a side note, might the "slight crop" be the difference between the 5DIV 1.7 video crop and the traditional 1.6 crop factor?



if it ends up like that it would be a coincidence. the 7D Mark II had a much higher pixel density than the 5d Mark IV.


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## rrcphoto (Jan 3, 2018)

Canon Rumors said:


> We’re told that the Canon EOS 7D Mark III, which will be Canon’s first APS-C 4K camera, will have a slight crop when shooting in 4K.
> As for frame rates, do not expect anything more than 30fps in 4K, and 60fps in 1080P.



this means they are significantly having to boost what they are doing internally to get out 4K.

MJPEG would in theory have a much heavier crop for 4K - probably around another 1.7 crop of the APS-C sensor.

it will be curious if this is the first Canon camera with an integrated 4K pipeline, which no other canon camera has to date that isn't a video camera based upon DIGIC DV.


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## transpo1 (Jan 3, 2018)

unfocused said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > ethanz said:
> ...



People seem to forget the original 7D was THE DSLR video camera of choice for a few years when it first appeared. 

One can only hope the crop is minimal from the 1.6x crop of APS-C. 

It would make sense to have the video-centric features in a flip-screened XXD line, but I don't see Canon incentivized to do that given the lower pricing of those models as it would undercut their flagships. They'll save the best video features for flagships.


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## Steve Balcombe (Jan 3, 2018)

transpo1 said:


> People seem to forget the original 7D was THE DSLR video camera of choice for a few years when it first appeared.



The 60D, which came less than a year later, was actually better for video. As well as the flippy screen, it offered VGA crop mode and manual recording volume control.


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## Cthulhu (Jan 3, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> ethanz said:
> 
> 
> > Does it really matter? I don't picture the 7D as targeted to video shooters.
> ...



There's that and there's the fact that the 7d line already takes a beating from the competition in stills anyway. I'm not a video shooter but the extreme file sizes and codec keep me from taking even the occasional short video with the 5d4 and 1dx2. It's a shame really, makes no sense to limit options that much.


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## rrcphoto (Jan 3, 2018)

JP4DESIGNZ said:


> I assume that slight crop would be 1.74x like with the 5D4, which is slight for Canon's 1.6x crop sensor.



that wouldn't work out mathematically.

the reason the 5D Mark IV has a 1.74 crop is that's the window in the center of the sensor that is the 4096 × 2160 pixels in size.

for that to work on the 7D Mark III the same way, it would have around a 1.2 crop of a 1.6 crop APS-C sensor which would end up having a 1.92 FF equivalent crop.

Then again, after doing that math. maybe the 7D Mark II will have a 1.2 crop which would be considered a "slight" crop


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## Aussie shooter (Jan 3, 2018)

As a 7d2 shooter this is the camera I am watching this VERY closely as a future upgrade. Canon are more than welcome to put 4k on it but there are two things that would likely make it a problem if they went down that road. Canon. DO NOT take away my left side buttons. A tilty screen would be great but NOT a fully articulating screen. I want my buttons. And do not risk overheating issues for increased video performance(TBH I am not really concerned this will be the case). The 7d2 will be wildlife stills centric and video will be a fluffy add on and as such it should compete with the D500 on sensor performance and autofocus. If it does that then it will demolish D500 sales as the only reason D500's are selling so well compared to 7d2's is that canon shooters already had a crop wildlife specialist and Nikon shooters had a new product to jump on.


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## Bennymiata (Jan 3, 2018)

My M5 crops the image a little when taking videos, to allow for sensor shift for the IS.
Perhaps the 7d3 will have some sort of sensor shift to help the IS for video?


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## MrFotoFool (Jan 3, 2018)

Based on continual developments like this, the market for video must be larger than my personal experience indicates. I have several photographer friends and none of us (myself included) ever uses the video feature on our DSLR. I wish they made two versions of cameras like my 5D4, one with video and one without. Even if the price was the same, I would still buy the one without just to eliminate an extra button and menu set that I don't want or need.


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## ahsanford (Jan 3, 2018)

Cthulhu said:


> There's that and there's the fact that the 7d line already takes a beating from the competition in stills anyway.



I would love to read your data on that. Honestly. Does it exist? Or are we projecting how 'things must be' based on the D500 spec sheet?

(I don't say that snarkily, I honestly would love to see some data. I'm curious how it is selling.)

- A


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## ahsanford (Jan 3, 2018)

Aussie shooter said:


> the only reason D500's are selling so well compared to 7d2's is that canon shooters already had a crop wildlife specialist and Nikon shooters had a new product to jump on.



This makes sense, but again: DATA -- please.

The D500 is some mythical sales phenomenon based on the comments of this forum. Are there numbers to go with that myth?

FTR, your comment above is certainly plausible -- Nikon left that segment to die (or upgrade to FF) for a full cycle, so it's logical there was large number of trapped wildlifing/birding D7200 (or possibly D610/D750) users Nikon had waiting to come back once the D500 was announced. _But do we have numbers to back that up?_

- A


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## okaro (Jan 3, 2018)

Bennymiata said:


> My M5 crops the image a little when taking videos, to allow for sensor shift for the IS.
> Perhaps the 7d3 will have some sort of sensor shift to help the IS for video?



You probably can disable that crop. At least in compact cameras one can do that.

I assume it creates two pixels from three which means it used 3840*1.5 = 5760 pixels and assuming it has 6000 x 4000 pixel sensor it means 4% crop horizontally.


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## Aussie shooter (Jan 3, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> Aussie shooter said:
> 
> 
> > the only reason D500's are selling so well compared to 7d2's is that canon shooters already had a crop wildlife specialist and Nikon shooters had a new product to jump on.
> ...



Good point. I will correct my statement by saying that the only reason the D500 is 'rumoured' to be selling so well is that it gave Nikon shooters an option they did not already have.


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## ahsanford (Jan 3, 2018)

Aussie shooter said:


> Good point. I will correct my statement by saying that the only reason the D500 is 'rumoured' to be selling so well is that it gave Nikon shooters an option they did not already have.



...which makes perfect sense. Esp. since they have a 200-500 f/5.6 IS lens for $1400 to use with it for birding.

I just want numbers on how it actually is selling. Are they just flipping the dormant birders that were slugging it out with a D7200 rather than jumping to FF and buying huge glass to get their reach back? Are they converting Canonites? 

- A


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## Cochese (Jan 3, 2018)

I don't really care what 4K codec they decide to use, but I'd love to see 1080/ 120fps. I constantly hear fellow shooters wanting that. I'm fine with the MJPEG. Pulling frames for images is far better.


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## jolyonralph (Jan 3, 2018)

<PEDANTIC MODE ON>
Seeing as the aspect ratio of 4K video is different to the aspect of the APS-C sensor, there will ALWAYS be some crop with 4k video
<PEDANTIC MODE OFF>


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## 3kramd5 (Jan 4, 2018)

jolyonralph said:


> <PEDANTIC MODE ON>
> Seeing as the aspect ratio of 4K video is different to the aspect of the APS-C sensor, there will ALWAYS be some crop with 4k video
> <PEDANTIC MODE OFF>



Missed opportunity for a new line of EF-SA (anamorphic) glass ;D


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## Hector1970 (Jan 4, 2018)

I wouldn’t cases much for 4K. It’s so memory intensive. You’d need to be doing serious video work. A Panasonic GH5 wouldbetter for that. I’d take 1000FPS HD if it were available as it would be a fun feature.
I would like a flippy screen, fully articulated- very handy I think.
As a 7D2 owner it’s really about the image quality.
The ISO performance was woeful day 1. I find it poor in high contrast light. Very poor when ISO goes above 3200. This camera is for action, high shutter speeds - you need to have good ISO performance.
I’ll be really curious if they can make it a lot better.
If they improve focusing or increased focus points and don’t improve the ISO performance greatly I’ll let it pass by. 
I might be tempted by a Sony or wait to see if a 1DX III is worth saving for.
I’d be slow to invest in a Sony but the FPS is attractive and two lens 70-200 and when it arrives a 400 or 500 F4 would do
A super performing 7DIII would be a much cheaper option.
My own guess is it will be 10 FPS , 4K , 1 stop ISO improvement okayish camera, middling reviews, Tipa award winning camera.


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## 3kramd5 (Jan 4, 2018)

Hector1970 said:


> I wouldn’t cases much for 4K. It’s so memory intensive. You’d need to be doing serious video work. A Panasonic GH5 wouldbetter for that. I’d take 1000FPS HD if it were available as it would be a fun feature.



That’s over 2 billion pixels per second. It would make 4k 30p look downright quaint from a memory perspective .


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## bertzie (Jan 4, 2018)

As a 7dmk2 shooter, I genuinely wouldn't care if the 7dmk3 didn't shoot video at all.


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## preppyak (Jan 4, 2018)

Steve Balcombe said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > People seem to forget the original 7D was THE DSLR video camera of choice for a few years when it first appeared.
> ...


Yep, and until Magic Lantern unlocked it for all cameras, the T3i was quite nice too since it had the 3x tele mode as well.

Canon clearly dont see video in DSLR's as a major draw anymore, because if I wanted quality video at 4k, Id get a GH5 for 60% the price, throw a metabones adapter on, and forget a Canon camera even did video.

Wouldnt kill them to do 1080/96 though, since the GH4 managed to do it 4 years before this camera will be released.


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## Aussie shooter (Jan 4, 2018)

I wouldn't go so far as to say it is killing me waiting for the release of this thing but I am certainly very keen to see what happens with it. I would like to replace my old one with it before a Galapagos trip in November but I don't like the idea of early uptake despite canon being probably the most reliable camera makers. If it is out by may and has at least a 1stop ISO improvement I am likely to jump in. These little tidbits of info that is all but irrelavent to a wildlife shooter(ie video) are driving me nuts. I want the important info


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## preppyak (Jan 4, 2018)

unfocused said:


> On the other hand, *I've long argued that the XXD line should be the dominant video line*. Keep the 7D as the premier action and wildlife crop sensor body for stills and put the video-centric features into the flip-screened XXD line.


Very much agree with this sentiment. The 7D was a great camera if you needed 6+ fps or the bulletproof body, but the 60D did everything else just as well and had the same battery.

Problem is, Canon wants a prosumer and pro customer to own two cameras to do photo and video work (one for each) to maximize their profits. And in my case they are partially right....I do own two cameras to specialize...its just my video camera isnt a Canon Cine.

The amount of damage they could do to the GH5 and panasonic just by matching the GH4 specs....


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## slclick (Jan 4, 2018)

I have yet to meet anyone who sought an iteration of the 7D, past or future, as a video rig. Sports, birding, wildlife, other action ...yes.


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## Orangutan (Jan 4, 2018)

slclick said:


> I have yet to meet anyone who sought an iteration of the 7D, past or future, as a video rig. Sports, birding, wildlife, other action ...yes.


Possibly continuing the trend to broaden its appeal to parents of teenage athletes/performers. I doubt that crowd wants to carry a separate 4K video rig. For that market, it doesn't have to be pro-quality 4K, but just good enough.


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## Chaitanya (Jan 4, 2018)

At this point 7D mk 3 really needs to outperform D500 from Nikon and have better feature set as well. USB Type-C, CFexpress and UHS-II SD slots are a must just to keep it relevant beyond 2018.


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## Orangutan (Jan 4, 2018)

Chaitanya said:


> At this point 7D mk 3 really needs to outperform D500 from Nikon and have better feature set as well. USB Type-C, CFexpress and UHS-II SD slots are a must just to keep it relevant beyond 2018.


No, it just needs to sell well and make a nice profit for Canon. Of course, we'd all like the 7D3 to be a crop 1DX3, but it ain't gonna be that.


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## Aussie shooter (Jan 4, 2018)

Chaitanya said:


> At this point 7D mk 3 really needs to outperform D500 from Nikon and have better feature set as well. USB Type-C, CFexpress and UHS-II SD slots are a must just to keep it relevant beyond 2018.



Nope. It just needs a better sensor and slightly improved AF system. People with GAS may look at swapping systems(or more likely talk about swapping systems) but most photographers won't even consider it. It has to outperform the 7d2, not outperform the D500 and it has to be a great wildlife camera for the dollars as the 7d2 was(and still is). If it can do that while retaining the same cards. Great. I won't have to buy more cards. If not then change the cards. Never once used the usb cord. I always download from the SD card straight into the computer. I bet most people do aswell So there is probably no need to change unless previous generations are becoming redundant.


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## Chaitanya (Jan 4, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> Aussie shooter said:
> 
> 
> > Good point. I will correct my statement by saying that the only reason the D500 is 'rumoured' to be selling so well is that it gave Nikon shooters an option they did not already have.
> ...


Only Canonites that got converted to D500 were the people who came into Canon for 7D/7D mark 2 after Nikon nearly abandoned the flagship APS-C segment. Most of these birders only have 1 lens in their bag for birding and nothing else so jumping ship is easier for them. Also that 200-500mm lens along with D500 was better choice than 7D mk 2 with 400mm 5.6 or 300mm f/4 with 1.4x TC combo.


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## Aussie shooter (Jan 4, 2018)

Chaitanya said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Aussie shooter said:
> ...



I think Birders with only one lens in their kit probably account for a very small segment of the market. Most shooters in this market would likely fall into the same category as myself. Love shooting BIF but also love shooting any wildlife on offer as well as the occasional landscape or macro along with family shots etc etc. Most wildlife photographers are probably lugging at least 4 lenses for the body they use so for most the expense of swapping systems is just not worth the tiny gain in sensor performance. Better to spend that money on a holiday.


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## Chaitanya (Jan 4, 2018)

Aussie shooter said:


> Chaitanya said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...


In India that number is quite large, most of these birders only have a single lens in bag for more general purpose photography they rely on smartphones. Even in my group atleast half fall into this category, and they are the first ones to borrow my macro lenses whenever we are out shooting macros. Even I rely on smartphones for general purpose photography and only use my DSLR and lenses for macro work(only wide angle lens in my bag is EF-s 10-18mm).


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## bhf3737 (Jan 4, 2018)

Comparing the next 7D to its peers in terms of 4K spec:
(crop factor as compared to full-frame sensor)

Nikon D500 has 2.25x crop factor (sensor read area is smaller than mFT)
Fujifilm XT-2 has 1.79x crop factor (1.17x of APS-C, sensor read area is larger than mFT)
Panasonic GH5 has 2x crop factor (standard mFT)
Panasonic GH4 has 2.2x crop factor (sensor read area is slightly smaller than mFT)

Even if 7D III gets 1.25 crop of its APS-C sensor (2x of full frame), it still can read the sensor area equivalent to mFT, same as what GH5 offers. Of course ideally no crop is the best but anything smaller than 1.25x would be pretty good for a non-dedicated video camera.


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## jolyonralph (Jan 4, 2018)

bertzie said:


> As a 7dmk2 shooter, I genuinely wouldn't care if the 7dmk3 didn't shoot video at all.



Well, I hardly ever shoot video, but I wouldn't buy a new DSLR now unless it did 4K, simply because I need to know the feature is there in case I need it.

Also. Number of people who won't buy the 7D III if it does 4K video = 0 Number of people who won't buy the 7D III if it doesn't do 4K video > 0


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## tomscott (Jan 4, 2018)

Many of you seem to forget that the 7D was the go to video camera for a huge amount of people when it was released.

It was only the third camera in canons range at the time with a video feature. First 5DMKII (which originally had no manual override until the firmware) then the 500D then the 7D. What split the 7D apart was the fact it was significantly cheaper than the 5DMKII and the 550d had no manual control.

For many it was the video camera of choice. 1080 30 720 60 with a large sensor, sounds normal now but back then it was a huge deal to shoot video with the amazing EF lens line up. Especially when this was almost half the price of the 5DMKII and it had more frame rate options. It was also the first to have a dedicated video switch... making it really easy to switch over.

I believe that a DSLR is the wrong tool for videography, but it is compelling to have that option in one device.

I for one was a video nay sayer, I very rarely used it... Until when I went traveling for a year. I bought my GF a 70D and she had no experience of using a DSLR period, (I did help along the way but she found her own feet really) stuck it in auto and she got some incredible footage with it, actually mind blowing. Although I am a professional photographer and use DSLRs for that reason, looking over her footage is compelling and reminds me much more of our travels than the stills do. Puts you right back in the moment.

Looking back after a safari etc friends and fellow travelers wanted to see what had happened during and I could only really show them a still whereas the gf had the whole thing recorded so you can watch it second by second. It puts, not only you back in the moment but gives others a snapshot of the experience too.

Dont get me wrong I got images of a lifetime during the trip but the video just brings it all to life.

People who underestimate the video features are missing out IMO. Photography is a dieing trade and everyone wants video. I used to work for a newspaper and when I left (about 3 years ago) you were expected to shoot images and video for web articles etc.

My main interest outside of my profession is wildlife and I have a 7DMKII and love it. The one disapointing feature is you have DPAF and no touch screen to control it just seems ridiculous. Picking up the 6DMKII or 70D with the rotating touch screen IMO is a revelation for any photographer whether your a seasoned pro or a beginner.

The 6DMKII is by no means the best camera on earth but has changed the way I shoot. My gf has inspired me to shoot more video. Some of the wildlife footage she got took me right back to the moment, tugs on the heartstrings as a media more so than the still images. Video conveys something different entirely, I love shooting video for wildlife because you get a sense of the movement that a photograph doesn't convey. Especially when you can put 400+mm lenses on the camera, gives you an amazing range to use.

I am more than happy for canon to add what ever features they can. As a modern photographer you cant really turn your nose up at the direction of media and needs of people.

One thing people should never be afraid of is to learn. 

I dont care who you are or how long you have been shooting for there is always room to learn. A lot of the seasoned posters here seem to be so stuck in their ways and have the "Im a stills shooter i dont need video, i dont care about video". Pretty narrow minded if you ask me and your missing out on an incredible way to convey your passions or subject to others.

Therefore I would be happy for canon to ditch the non touch screen, and add a rotating screen. Ive been a pro for over 10 years using everything from the top level cameras down to the XXD range. In my experience tilt screens dont really make the camera more vulnerable. As a professional and the cost they are to buy if it did break I would buy another or have it repaired not an issue to me. Its usability is far more useful. 

That said I do miss the controls of the XD bodies with the cameras that have a rotating screen. So I would be happy to compromise with a screen like the M5.

If they do go down the 4K route I would like to see a better file format over the 5DMKIV.

Otherwise im really excited for this new body.


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## weixing (Jan 4, 2018)

Hi,
As a 7D2 owner, I'll consider upgrade to 7D3 if 2 of 3 below is true:
1) got 100% crop video (1080p or 4K)
2) improve and more consistent AF with more F8 points
3) at least 1.5 stop of high ISO (>= 1600) improvement

Have a nice day.


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## slclick (Jan 4, 2018)

I don't have any memory problems with the specs of the 7D, what I know after owning it and being surrounded by many who did and then subsequently bought the Mk 2 was it was the top crop servo body. Not the go to for video. Once again, there's a stigma out there for buying a video body, even if that's a cameras primary use. These master of none bodies offer too many compromises.


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## unfocused (Jan 4, 2018)

tomscott said:


> ...I do miss the controls of the XD bodies with the cameras that have a rotating screen...



This is my only objection to moving screens. I am spoiled by the configuration of the 7D;5D and even 1D bodies and don't want to sacrifice the rear body real estate for a moving screen. Having a touch screen is a no-brainer in my opinion and should have been included in the 1DXII or added as a firmware upgrade. 

The question of durability is a non-issue. The hinge on the XXD bodies is very robust. There is zero evidence that the integrity of the body is compromised; it actually makes weather sealing better because the rear screen is separate from the body; the screen can be inset into the body for additional protection when not flipped out and should the flip screen be damaged, it's much easier to replace than an integrated screen.


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## goldenhusky (Jan 4, 2018)

I am really looking forward for this camera. I almost bought the 7D2 so many times and every single time I convinced my self otherwise saying poor DR, high ISO noise, no touch screen instead I bought the 80D, used it for birding and enjoyed it thoroughly. At this point I am fairly confident the 7D3 will fix all the 3 above and probably improve on the AF system. Being Canon and a dedicated non Cine video line is being rumored I have no hope for 4k even if they did I bet they will take the 4096*2160 30fps from the middle like they did on 5D4 and probably offer MJPEG. 1 CF and 1 SD UHS 1 card . 

*Here is what I am expecting on 7D3*
24 MP
12fps
~50 RAW bursts
Better Autofocus system than 7D2 it could be same number of AF points but improved AF
1 CF card and 1 SD UHS-1 card anything more is a bonus
1080p 60fps
GPS
Dual pixel AF
Touch screen
WiFi
New battery grip

If Canon offered anything more than this I would be pleasantly surprised. After all I have to be _*Canon realistic*_ 

*Below specs are less likely to make it but possible*
4k30fps (4096*2160) MJPEG from the middle of the sensor if at all they offered 4K
Better DR than 80D
Better high ISO noise performance than 80D
Better metering system
Bluetooth
NFC
Articulated touch screen

*Below is very less likely*
Full sensor 4K30fps
1080p120fps
CFast2.0
SD UHS ll
H.265 video codec


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## transpo1 (Jan 4, 2018)

goldenhusky said:


> I am really looking forward for this camera. I almost bought the 7D2 so many times and every single time I convinced my self otherwise saying poor DR, high ISO noise, no touch screen instead I bought the 80D, used it for birding and enjoyed it thoroughly. At this point I am fairly confident the 7D3 will fix all the 3 above and probably improve on the AF system. Being Canon and a dedicated non Cine video line is being rumored I have no hope for 4k even if they did I bet they will take the 4096*2160 30fps from the middle like they did on 5D4 and probably offer MJPEG. 1 CF and 1 SD UHS 1 card .
> 
> *Here is what I am expecting on 7D3*
> 24 MP
> ...



“Canon Realistic” 8) I love it.


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## AvTvM (Jan 4, 2018)

so typical Canon: new cameras already NERFED at rumour stage. ;D

luckily i don't care at all about mirrorslappers and any sort of video capture. Canon will get money from me once they bring a worthwhile FF MILC system. Until then ... yawn.


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## ahsanford (Jan 4, 2018)

AvTvM said:


> so typical Canon: new cameras already NERFED at rumour stage. ;D
> 
> luckily i don't care at all about mirrorslappers and any sort of video capture. Canon will get money from me once they bring a worthwhile FF MILC system. Until then ... yawn.


_
...yet here you are.
_
- A


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## privatebydesign (Jan 4, 2018)

AvTvM said:


> so typical Canon: new cameras already NERFED at rumour stage. ;D
> 
> luckily i don't care at all about mirrorslappers and any sort of video capture. Canon will get money from me once they bring a worthwhile FF MILC system. Until then ... yawn.



Can you tell us the long list of 3:2 and 4:3 sensors from other manufacturers don't crop to get a 16:9 aspect ratio?


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## goldenhusky (Jan 4, 2018)

AvTvM said:


> so typical Canon: new cameras already NERFED at rumour stage. ;D
> 
> luckily i don't care at all about mirrorslappers and any sort of video capture. Canon will get money from me once they bring a worthwhile FF MILC system. Until then ... yawn.



I hear you but I would like to share a whole different experience with the best mirror less full fame camera out there. I recently acquired a EOS M5 (I already had the EF to EF-M adapter so no intention to buy any EF-M lenses) but changed my mind and bought a EF-M 18-55 (thinking this combo would be good for my 5 year old to take pictures) and tried to take a picture of artificial flowers with vase in a dimly lit room. M5 would not focus at all. I had the flash and focus assist light turned on and the focus assist lamp would come on but the camera would not focus at all. I thought the lens was bad so I tried a EF-S 18-135 with adapter (known good combo) even that would not focus. So I brought my 5D4 and Sigma 24-105 Art combo down, sure enough that focused properly. I increased the f number to f8 and still 5D4 focused. Then I decided to do the test with my Sony A9 and 24-240 and followed by Batis 85mm. The moment of truth, Sony A9 was not able to acquire focus at all. I started to think that the mirror slappers still have their edge when it comes to low light auto focus. Later I tried 5D4 with various Canon EF lens combos, all focused properly. I did not try the Dual pixel auto focus but thinking of doing an extensive low light AF capability test with all these cameras.


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## Graphic.Artifacts (Jan 5, 2018)

Haven't used my 7D2 much since the improved f8 focusing of Canon's full frames rolled out. For my purposes that has effectively negated the crop advantage to the point where I no longer bother shooting crop. I just crank up the extender to 1.4 or 2x and have found the IQ to be as good or better than the 7D2. I'd only consider a 7D3 if it offered compelling AF performance across the frame at f8.

As far as video goes, not sure what Canon could or would do that's going to please anybody who might really care about that. The DSLR is fundamentally unsuited as a platform for video. The video quality of my 1DX2 is objectively very good but I still wouldn't want to shoot video with it on a regular basis. There are much better solutions out there if you are serious about 4K video.

If it's something that you just want to play at the Canon DSLR's are fine for 2K and workable in 4K if you're willing to live with Canon's workflow constraints. If not just get a real video camera. EF mount compatible cameras are getting more affordable by the day. Don't understand the endless whining and melodrama around this issue. Move on.

Relative to the true cost of producing high quality video the camera is a modest expense. Just get a tool designed for that job and stop insisting that every new Canon stills camera has to be the holy grail for video. That camera is not coming this year or next year and likely never will be.


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## Otara (Jan 5, 2018)

The only worry I have is if they have like the 7D2, where the highest framerate didnt work with DPAF.

Im not a great videographer, just want to be able to take short clips. If anything the crop would be desirable to me, in that Im more focussed on reach than DOF. Focus peaking and crop options are what Ive enjoyed on my 200d/m5, and seeing some of these things in one camera would be nice, if unlikely.


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## goldenhusky (Jan 5, 2018)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> Haven't used my 7D2 much since the improved f8 focusing of Canon's full frames rolled out. For my purposes that has effectively negated the crop advantage to the point where I no longer bother shooting crop. I just crank up the extender to 1.4 or 2x and have found the IQ to be as good or better than the 7D2. I'd only consider a 7D3 if it offered compelling AF performance across the frame at f8.



Agree with you on that. I am also lately using 5D4 with 1.4x ll on the 600 f/4. I always wanted to do an image quality comparison with 5D4 + 600mm + 1.4x ll Vs 80d + 600mm. So far I haven't got a chance to do that but I am happy with the results I get out of my 5D4 + 600mm + 1.4x ll combo



> The DSLR is fundamentally unsuited as a platform for video.


True except for the fact Canon created the DSLR video market and still they have the best touch screen implementation and dual pixel auto focus which is the best auto focus in any video camera out there



> If not just get a real video camera. EF mount compatible cameras are getting more affordable by the day. Don't understand the endless whining and melodrama around this issue. Move on.



By real video camera you mean cameras like the Cine line of cameras, Panasonic AU-EVA1, etc? The problem with that is those camera are not affordable for the masses.



> Relative to the true cost of producing high quality video the camera is a modest expense.



not necessarily people do not spend tens of thousands of dollars to post a video in youtube



> Just get a tool designed for that job and stop insisting that every new Canon stills camera has to be the holy grail for video. That camera is not coming this year or next year and likely never will be.



The problem here is canon created the DSLR video market and showed people what can be accomplished in a DSLR. Now they are not willing to offer any of those when competitors are offering way more than Canon when it comes to video hence the whining and crying. Now you might say if competitors are offering better options then why not switch over. It is a long story, I had posted a page long post here so I will not repeat the summary is

Lens collection
Quality of equipment
Support and service
so many 3rd party lenses, flashes and accessories, etc..
For wildlife and sports there is no option beyond Canon and Nikon. 
For a hobbyist like me who shoot video once in a while it is not really an option to invest thousands of $$ in Cine line of cameras. Rather hybrid camera from Canon with EF mount is better since I can use all my lenses. I wanted 4k and high frame rate.
Another perspective I got from one of the person who had worked in the media industry for long is they can carry one camera and get stills and video whenever it deemed necessary. With the online articles video is becoming more and more popular to be fair there are not a lot of 4 k videos on online articles but since every other competitor at this point is offering 4k video people expecting that from Canon as well.

Here is the link to my post (rant)  http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=34057.msg698706#msg698706


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## transpo1 (Jan 5, 2018)

goldenhusky said:


> Graphic.Artifacts said:
> 
> 
> > Haven't used my 7D2 much since the improved f8 focusing of Canon's full frames rolled out. For my purposes that has effectively negated the crop advantage to the point where I no longer bother shooting crop. I just crank up the extender to 1.4 or 2x and have found the IQ to be as good or better than the 7D2. I'd only consider a 7D3 if it offered compelling AF performance across the frame at f8.
> ...



You have a point 8)

In the end, all the “whining and complaining” is about the hybrid shooter, and since there is so much of it (and since Sony is selling a decent amount of their FF MILCs), one can assume that there is money to be made from this segment.


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## Ah-Keong (Jan 5, 2018)

In addition to the numbers (minus the weight) that would add to the specifications.

I hope they add red squares to the viewfinder AF like the 1DX2.

:


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## Cthulhu (Jan 6, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> Cthulhu said:
> 
> 
> > There's that and there's the fact that the 7d line already takes a beating from the competition in stills anyway.
> ...



I don't know what you're getting at here. Seems you're talking about sales and I'm stating the competing flagship apsc cameras beat the pants off the 7d2 in stills. I don't know who buys more of each and quite frankly I don't care since I'm only going to use the one I have.


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## Aussie shooter (Jan 6, 2018)

Cthulhu said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Cthulhu said:
> ...



I spent 10 days in Svalbard I July. Much of it standing and shooting next to a funny as hell Irish fella who just happened to be shooting a D500 as opposed to me with a lowly 7D2. I had a close look at many of his photos. They were not better than mine. As a matter of fact I probably got more quality keepers than he did although we both got plenty of good shots. His camera did not magically make his photos better than mine. He must feel ripped off the poor fella


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## Cthulhu (Jan 6, 2018)

Orangutan said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > I have yet to meet anyone who sought an iteration of the 7D, past or future, as a video rig. Sports, birding, wildlife, other action ...yes.
> ...



https://vimeo.com/9978386

National Geographic video, original 7d. It used to be quite popular for that among people looking for durability or on a budget, like the student crowd.


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## Cthulhu (Jan 6, 2018)

Aussie shooter said:


> Cthulhu said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



That's not saying much. I shoot a 1dx2 for work and I'm sure there's a lot of people out there who'd have better keepers than mine with a 5d2, doesn't change the fact that the 1dx2 is objectively a better camera.


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## Orangutan (Jan 6, 2018)

Cthulhu said:


> That's not saying much. I shoot a 1dx2 for work and I'm sure there's a lot of people out there who'd have better keepers than mine with a 5d2, doesn't change the fact that the 1dx2 is objectively a better camera.



I find this really puzzling: there are a lot of things better about the 1DX2, but "better" is not always objective. For some the 1DX2 is too heavy, or likely to draw attention. A smaller camera is easier to carry discretely. Different tools for different purposes. As they say, the best camera is the one you have with you. Each of us makes a personal decision regarding features, size/weight, support, price, etc. Even AF isn't always clear: the 6D was generally thought to have one really good AF point, which bested some more expensive cameras in low light, and if that's all you needed then that was your camera.


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## stevelee (Jan 6, 2018)

Cthulhu said:


> https://vimeo.com/9978386
> 
> National Geographic video, original 7d. It used to be quite popular for that among people looking for durability or on a budget, like the student crowd.



Looks good full screen on my 5K monitor.


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## Aussie shooter (Jan 6, 2018)

Cthulhu said:


> Aussie shooter said:
> 
> 
> > Cthulhu said:
> ...



The point was that while the D500 maybe be slightly better on the spec sheet it hardly 'beats the pants' off the 7d2. It is 'slightly' better in a couple of aspects and those features while great are not so incredible that the D500 is somehow lightyears ahead. swapping systems is not going to make anyones photography better in the real world. 1 stop extra of sensor performance is really not much.


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## bwud (Jan 6, 2018)

goldenhusky said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > so typical Canon: new cameras already NERFED at rumour stage. ;D
> ...



To be fair, the batis 85 is horrible at acquiring focus in low light. The 25 is unquestionably better, as are non-superzoom native lenses.


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## transpo1 (Jan 6, 2018)

Cthulhu said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > slclick said:
> ...



There you go. Anyone who thinks the original 7D wasn’t heavily used as a video rig when it first came out doesn’t know what they’re talking about.


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## Jack Douglas (Jan 7, 2018)

Sadly we are constantly bombarded by "cheap talk". The video of the 1DX2 is also sub par according to the initial chatter we heard. Modern equipment far exceeds the level of expertise of those spouting the cheap talk 90%+ of the time.

Jack


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## Cthulhu (Jan 7, 2018)

Orangutan said:


> Cthulhu said:
> 
> 
> > That's not saying much. I shoot a 1dx2 for work and I'm sure there's a lot of people out there who'd have better keepers than mine with a 5d2, doesn't change the fact that the 1dx2 is objectively a better camera.
> ...



That's what's puzzling you? The 1dx2 is heavier? So following your line of thought a little point and shoot is a better camera for me because I have small pockets...I seriously want to hear why stating the 1dx2 is an objectively better camera than a 5d2 puzzles you, but give me a something real.


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## Cthulhu (Jan 7, 2018)

Aussie shooter said:


> Cthulhu said:
> 
> 
> > Aussie shooter said:
> ...



Slightly better is your own take on it. 1 stop performance can make that high iso shot that was bugging you and you didn't want to put out into something that makes you smile, specially without an AA filter, but that's just one of the areas the d500 is better. It is also better in every single other area. I'd get one over the 7d2 just for the focus and buffer alone, and I really dislike Nikon files.


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## Orangutan (Jan 7, 2018)

Cthulhu said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > Cthulhu said:
> ...



I assume by "something real" you mean I should exclude practical issues, such as cost, weight, etc. Personally, I consider cost, weight, ability to get it past museum staff to be "real," so maybe that's where we differ. If we stick merely to technical issues, I'll go along with your statement, and not even mention the additional 1MP of the 5D2.  

More generally, I was disputing your idea that there is such a thing as "objectively better" when comparing two cameras. In all cases, practical issues come into play. If we exclude cost, a 5D4 seems to be "objectively" better" than a 5D3, but if you can't afford the price difference then that amounts to nothing.


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## Jack Douglas (Jan 7, 2018)

This can become kind of silly. Define objectively what the purpose of a camera is and whatever does that better is better. Can anyone take a stab at which camera in existence is the best .. perhaps it's in outer space and is humongous. 

Otherwise we are talking about trade-offs in the real world of our individual needs and it becomes less well defined. Isn't this what gets debated endlessly here in CRland. The best DR at ISO 100 does me zero good since I take a negligible number of photos at 100 ISO. Nikon's better AF on the other hand would help a lot in some of my situations. Or maybe it wouldn't, because I may simply be incompetent. 

Jack


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## Orangutan (Jan 7, 2018)

Jack Douglas said:


> Otherwise we are talking about trade-offs in the real world of our individual needs and it becomes less well defined.


+1



> because I may simply be incompetent.


Nope.


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## ExodistPhotography (Jan 7, 2018)

Canon Rumors said:


> We’re told that the Canon EOS 7D Mark III, which will be Canon’s first APS-C 4K camera, will have a slight crop when shooting in 4K.</p>
> <p>As for frame rates, do not expect anything more than 30fps in 4K, and 60fps in 1080P.</p>
> 
> 
> ...





If there is a crop its due to pixel binning, for example if it goes 28 or 30 MP there will have to be binning at the 24MP level. Would not really impact any performance enough to complain. Now if its motion jpeg, then thats a real reason to complain. I can understand 30FPS to keep from it competing with their higher end equipment. Also CFAST in this camera, seriously NO.. There is no need for it as IMHO dual SD cards slot would be better suited for its price range and at a $2000 price tag that fits their target audience. 

Seriously if people want a good 4k camera look into getting a AX53/AXP55 for under $1000 USD or pony up a few more bucks and get the higher end AX100 from Sony. You do not need to spend $2000 on a DSLR and another $800 on a lens to get good 4k video unless your a high end production company..


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## Aussie shooter (Jan 7, 2018)

Cthulhu said:


> Slightly better is your own take on it. 1 stop performance can make that high iso shot that was bugging you and you didn't want to put out into something that makes you smile, specially without an AA filter, but that's just one of the areas the d500 is better. It is also better in every single other area. I'd get one over the 7d2 just for the focus and buffer alone, and I really dislike Nikon files.



Better in every way is a subjective and very debatable point. I would say the canon betters it in ergonomics, controls, user interface and general usability(except for the tilt screen) video focus capability(not that i care about that), lenses. Probably a few more little things i can't think of right now.. Basically the things that improve your photography the most are where canon wins out for me personally. I don't run into buffer problems with the 7d2 as i am selective when i fire away. Improved focus will be nice but the d500 is no magic bullet and still struggles in the situations that cause me problems with the canon. No AA filter would be nice but I have seen the d500 produce moire on birds when my canon did not so there is always a trade off.. IF I didn't already have canon gear I might consider the d500 but there is no way in the wide world that the cost of changing systems is worth the minor improvements in image quality and focusing.


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## tron (Jan 9, 2018)

For the rumored video rates there is no need for CFAST cards. My guess is it will keep the 2 type of cards that 7D2 has and my only question is whether they will support the newer faster type of SD cards or not. An increase in High (mostly) and Low ISO performance, an even bigger buffer than 7D2's and a touch screen would be enough to make it awesome! (Just my opinion of course).


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