# 5D Mark III Information [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 19, 2012)

```
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<strong>Minimal Specs

</strong>Two communications came in tonight about 5D Mark III sightings in an Asian nation. One mentioned the 5D Mark III getting GPS related certification, no mention of what that certification was called. It was also said the camera doesn’t have a high number of autofocus points compared to the 7D or 1D series bodies.</p>
<p>The second communication talked about a prototype having eye control autofocus. This sort of rumour hasn’t appeared for a long time, but lots of people have fond memories of the eye controlled AF of the EOS-3. There was also a mention of the camera being capable of 5fps.</p>
<p><strong>Summary of 5D Mark III features mentioned today.</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>GPS Enabled</li>
<li>Less than 19 AF points</li>
<li>Eye control autofocus</li>
<li>5fps</li>
</ul>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


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## swblackwood (Jan 19, 2012)

8) Sounds like a rumor you shouldn't have bothered with. GPS enabled but no 7d-like autofocus. Please! Eye controlled focus; there is probably a reason Canon abandoned it. Maybe it didn't work well in practice.


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## c.d.embrey (Jan 19, 2012)

> ... but lots of people have fond memories of the eye controlled AF of the EOS-3.



And at the time enough people hated it that Canon killed "eye control."


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## BlueMixWhite (Jan 19, 2012)

If the specs are as stated, getting the mkII now makes every sense.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 19, 2012)

Note also that GPS certification doesn't have to mean in-body. It could be a WFT portrait grip, too. 

I find the rumored AF spec completely unsurprising.


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## EYEONE (Jan 19, 2012)

I actually got a EOS 3 for Christmas and the Eye Control AF is amazing! Truly one of the greatest features possible and it's the one thing I wish I could transplant into my 7D.


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## keithfullermusic (Jan 19, 2012)

I tried to look up eye control because I never heard of it, but wiki is down for another 25 minutes. I guess I will learn about it then.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 19, 2012)

keithfullermusic said:


> I tried to look up eye control because I never heard of it, but wiki is down for another 25 minutes. I guess I will learn about it then.



I'd lend you my EOS-3 if you were in town, great way to learn about it. It actually worked. I really need to buy some rolls of film and use that camera again.


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## AprilForever (Jan 19, 2012)

Maybe someone could cannibalize a 5d and a EOS 3 into one?


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## wickidwombat (Jan 19, 2012)

the EOS ELAN 7 also has the Eye AF


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 19, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> the EOS ELAN 7 also has the Eye AF



ELAN 7 is on my list to buy, haven't run into a near mint one yet.


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## wickidwombat (Jan 19, 2012)

Canon Rumors said:


> wickidwombat said:
> 
> 
> > the EOS ELAN 7 also has the Eye AF
> ...



really? Mine was in absolutly mint condition only cost $100 on ebay but my wife broke the latch on the film door the first day  lucky the local repair shop had the latch in stock which cost $40 to replace 
keep an eye on ebay they do come up from time to time


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## pooklin (Jan 19, 2012)

The one in Asian mention 5 focusing points only, he said he saw only 5 points in view finder.

It will be disappointed if only 5 focussing ponts, i hope it is more.
Hopefully 5 focussing points are cross type, and extra others focussing points.


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## wickidwombat (Jan 19, 2012)

pooklin said:


> The one in Asian mention 5 focusing points only, he said he saw only 5 points in view finder.
> 
> It will be disappointed if only 5 focussing ponts, i hope it is more.
> Hopefully 5 focussing points are cross type, and extra others focussing points.



if they were 5 f2.8 cross type points at a decent spread that would be awesome. I would rather that than have a useable center point and however many half baked outer points which dont work properly. And AI servo would need to be fixed up


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## Ricku (Jan 19, 2012)

If the 5 points are cross type, then I say yay! If only 1 is cross type, I say nay!

Btw, what is eye control AF? "

Let me guess. It can detect where your eye is looking at and pick AF sensor closest to what ever you are looking at?


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## wickidwombat (Jan 19, 2012)

http://consumer.usa.canon.com/app/pdf/slr/elan7n_instructions.pdf

page 48

If they can make This part work well i'll be impressed (pg49)

Eye Control Servo AF
When you use Eye Control in the AI Servo AF mode (or AI Focus AF set
to AI Servo AF), you can focus a moving subject continuously just by
looking at it. This is called Eye Control Servo AF.
If the subject focused with Eye Control starts to move, you can continue
to focus-track the subject with your eye by looking at the next AF point
covering the subject while holding down the shutter button halfway.


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## PeterJ (Jan 19, 2012)

Canon Rumors said:


> One mentioned the 5D Mark III getting GPS related certification, no mention of what that certification was called.


I do a lot of work with OEM GPS systems and I'm not aware of any such thing. For safety of life navigation applications, such as aircraft, government bodies like the FAA have an approval process but you don't need any approval just to use the GPS network. They are just a receiver afterall so one that doesn't perform well doesn't affect any other users.

The only certification required AFAIK are CE and FCC type approvals to make sure they don't emit spurious transmissions, the same certifications that just about all consumer electronic equipment has to undergo. That testing and certification is only required before production. For a camera with GPS it would have to be tested in final configuration as a pair. Even minor changes to the hardware can invalidate it, so I'm sure it's something Canon would only do when the design is close to being set it concrete.

Actually most companies Canon's size can and do use self-certification and testing, so no need for them to tell any 3rd party or government agencies they are about to release a GPS-enabled product.


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## nexus (Jan 19, 2012)

release it already or... 

I'll release the KRAKEN! ;D


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## mememe (Jan 19, 2012)

> The second communication talked about a prototype having eye control autofocus.


So this second statement is totally bollocks... There wont be any Eye-Control anymore...


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## pp77 (Jan 19, 2012)

I would love to see a come back of the eye control focus. I was very happy with it on my EOS 30, it worked when I was wearing glasses, even sunglasses! Maybe time to take out this old body, must still be somewhere.


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## D.Sim (Jan 19, 2012)

swblackwood said:


> 8) Sounds like a rumor you shouldn't have bothered with. GPS enabled but no 7d-like autofocus. Please! Eye controlled focus; there is probably a reason Canon abandoned it. Maybe it didn't work well in practice.


You sure you're on the right forum? Its Canon *Rumours* for a reason...

That said, I'm surprised they're not upping the AF of the camera, (or not - pushing people to the 1 series...) 

Eye controlled AF, now that would be interesting though...


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## wockawocka (Jan 19, 2012)

I experienced Eye Control AF on the Eos3 - Wasn't very good.


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## jstn (Jan 19, 2012)

I could care less about the amount of focus points. As long as the ones that are there actually work, and work well! 

Imagine you are shooting a wedding, you find the face in a small crowd you want your focus plane on, set a focus point over it and look at it with your eye... Boom! Instant perfect focus, without fiddling with your dial.

Although this sounds more like something for an "EOS 3D." Current technology would allow for a much more robust eye tracking system, and 3D eye control would really justify the name.


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## willrobb (Jan 19, 2012)

pp77 said:


> I would love to see a come back of the eye control focus. I was very happy with it on my EOS 30, it worked when I was wearing glasses, even sunglasses! Maybe time to take out this old body, must still be somewhere.



I had it on a EOS 7 about 10 years ago, it was awesome. Recently I was thinking about it and wondering if it'd make a come back anytime, I would be very happy if it did. Even if it wasn't perfect, I'm pretty sure it'd be better thanthe current 5DmkII AF abilities 

As for the other possible specs mentioned such as FPS, they would all seem to make sense. A bit of an upgrade from the current 5DmkII, not as good as the 1DX specs so it won't cut into the sales of it, but strong enough on it's own to persuade people to upgrade their current 5D bodies and persuade the 1DX owners that it'd be a decent camera to have as a back up when they don't need the the high FPS...if the rumoured eye focus is in and it works well I think a lot of people would want one.


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## Doodah (Jan 19, 2012)

The Camera and Photo Imaging Show 2012 will be held from 9th to 12th Feb 2012. Expect Nikon D800 and Canon 5D3 to surface around that time. Just a hunch.


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## nikkito (Jan 19, 2012)

Do u guys know if that eye control focus is a very expensive system? Because if not, it would be cool too find it in a Rebel.


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## MazV-L (Jan 19, 2012)

Regarding the eye-control focus, would they really include a feature in the 5diii that is not included in the 1DX, when the 5Diii is the lesser model ???


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## Picsfor (Jan 19, 2012)

Ricku said:


> If the 5 points are cross type, then I say yay! If only 1 is cross type, I say nay!


+1

I have no issue having only 5 AF points, as long as they are nicely spread out and all full cross type.
Add that to the 5D2 and you've fixed its only shortfall...


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## mrcrsr (Jan 19, 2012)

For what a 5D MK III?
I have been waiting for a very long time for the new 5D MK III. Last year in January I bought the 5D MK II. (because I was tired of waiting and I needed a second body)
Since October when the 1D X was announced I decided for myself to buy the new 1D X...
I will not wait any time longer for a 5D MK III!


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## zim (Jan 19, 2012)

9-point, all cross-type autofocus with an extra-sensitive centre point for lenses faster than f/2.8
high-speed shooting at 5.3fps

FF version of 60D... simples ;D


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## JR (Jan 19, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> http://consumer.usa.canon.com/app/pdf/slr/elan7n_instructions.pdf
> 
> page 48
> 
> ...



+1 if that works! Wow! At first when I saw the details of this latest mkIII info I was disappointed because not much here in terms of spec (MP count, ISO performance, etc)...only AF info...

I must say though that eye AF seem very interesting. For me the number of AF may not be the most important factor as well, but at least I would like the mk III model to be able to focus better then the mkII model in servo mode when subject are moving so I dont need to use F8 all the time to mask the current poor AF performance in those situation!...


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## pakosouthpark (Jan 19, 2012)

Eye control autofocus?? really? i never heard it before but sounds really nice but i wonder why this hasnt been used before in previous digital cameras.. i mean for some reason they dropped that feature out


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## stefsan (Jan 19, 2012)

I would welcome GPS functionality but a crippled AF system would prevent me from buying such a camera. Regarding the eye controlled AF system of the EOS 3 and 7: does it work properly when the photographer wears glasses?


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## Wahoowa (Jan 19, 2012)

I still own Elan IIE and Elan 7E.

Although the eye control AF is a "very cool" feature to have. I find it just an "okay" feature to put in use.

Why?

Some of you who have used it may have a different experience than I do. When using the eye control AF, since it's not perfect, you're forced to look at the AF point carefully to make sure that the camera selects the correct focus point. This happens more for me with the 7E than the IIE because it has more focus points (7 vs 3). I find that takes concentration out of what I actually need to do--look for other details while I'm framing the shot. 

Say, with 7D, my eye can just keep looking here and there while I use my right thumb to select the AF point at the same time.


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## Wahoowa (Jan 19, 2012)

BTW, if anyone wants to play around with the eye control focus thing and you have some money to burn, an Elan IIE can be had from eBay for about $40 shipped.


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## Eisbaer (Jan 19, 2012)

A eye control autofocus was MY idea for a 3D.  Following possibilities now:

- The source covered me and made a mistake (farsighted or such a thing).
- Canon cancelled the 3D program and will enhance the 5D.
- The source IS Canon and tries to confuse us. NO CHANCE.

8)

Best regards
Eisbaer


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## awinphoto (Jan 19, 2012)

I kinda feel like a big yawn coming up.... GPS? for me, wouldn't use it, couldn't care less about it... I could see why some could use it, buttt...... As far as eye control... I used a camera in school , i think the 1v or something like that which had the eye control... It seemed kind of neat, but to play devils advocate, I got an open question/comment I would be interested in hearing responses on... 

while I never owned the camera and have limited experience, it was alas on a film 35mm camera... most 35mm film prints on average were 8x10 and smaller... On occasion if you felt daring enough, professionals would print that film at 11x14 but that was the exception to the rule because of film grain and the prints, if shooting ISO 400 or larger, would be just too ugly to print bigger than that. Now we know with digital, when we print an 8x10 vs printing 16x20s, the 8x10 can hide lots of sins and imperfections of lenses and such... some minor AF inconsistencies may even be hidden on a 8x10 vs bigger depending on the severity. While people have fondness of the eye control, could it be that in practice, on a camera such as the 1d, 7d, 5d2, 5d3 whatever that the eye control was good but may not be 100% perfect in which it could be intensified on a camera that natively pumps out 11x14's-16x20's? While on smaller prints the imperfections of the systems may be easily overlooked but on a monitor, blown up at 100% or greater in this day and age of pixel peeping, having the eye control could be a liability?


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## Doodah (Jan 19, 2012)

zim said:


> 9-point, all cross-type autofocus with an extra-sensitive centre point for lenses faster than f/2.8
> high-speed shooting at 5.3fps
> 
> FF version of 60D... simples ;D



Methinks that may very well happen


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## mortadella (Jan 19, 2012)

The specs coming out of this rumor may not be eye-popping or drool inspiring...but rest assured the mk3 will dazzle with it's low-light/high ISO performance. It's not going to be a body you grab to shoot sports, and Canon hasn't intended to be. 

Unless you're going to spend $6k-$7k for a body like the 1D-X you aren't going to get a "do-it-all" body. If you have a sub $3500 budget, you need to buy a second body like a 7D to be able to track your moving subject and have the burst speed to not miss as many shots. And the 7D is going to have Rebel quality ISO performance.

I wouldn't be surprised if AF was kept the same, but that wouldn't stop me from wanting to pick one up. If it gets 2 stop improvement in ISO over the mk2, that means clean shots at 6400, and would most likely be enough for people to upgrade, however its reasonable to assume that we will also see improvements in metering/dynamic range, perhaps some other minor things. But you definitely won't see a great AF system on a 5d body, not now, not ever....so please don't expect that. Save up for a 1D-X


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## awinphoto (Jan 19, 2012)

mortadella said:


> The specs coming out of this rumor may not be eye-popping or drool inspiring...but rest assured the mk3 will dazzle with it's low-light/high ISO performance. It's not going to be a body you grab to shoot sports, and Canon hasn't intended to be.
> 
> Unless you're going to spend $6k-$7k for a body like the 1D-X you aren't going to get a "do-it-all" body. If you have a sub $3500 budget, you need to buy a second body like a 7D to be able to track your moving subject and have the burst speed to not miss as many shots. And the 7D is going to have Rebel quality ISO performance.
> 
> I wouldn't be surprised if AF was kept the same, but that wouldn't stop me from wanting to pick one up. If it gets 2 stop improvement in ISO over the mk2, that means clean shots at 6400, and would most likely be enough for people to upgrade, however its reasonable to assume that we will also see improvements in metering/dynamic range, perhaps some other minor things. But you definitely won't see a great AF system on a 5d body, not now, not ever....so please don't expect that. Save up for a 1D-X



Thanks for that, i just threw up a little in my mouth... I hope they do not keep the same AF... AT LEAST they better make all AF points cross type sensors. For this price point they can throw in some more invisible assist points... spread it out, make it more functionable... maybe even add some zone options similar to the 7d af but on the current system... They need to do something. I'm not too bothered about Low light ISO but if they get it even better, great... I want the built in levels like the 7d... Hell if the rebel has 1 axis level, they at least can do that, but they better have dual axis for a $3000 camera... While I dont care if they have a pop up flash or not for a flash commander, I would at least want an IR transmitter for a flash commander... It doesn't have to have blazing 8 or 6 or even 5 frames per second, i dont care. It doesn't have to have 19 AF points, just make what they have more functional and or programmable... Also 1 or 2 Mfn buttons like the 7d so I can assign my own function for what I need. This will be what will make me jump and buy the new camera.


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## V8Beast (Jan 19, 2012)

mortadella said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if AF was kept the same, but that wouldn't stop me from wanting to pick one up. If it gets 2 stop improvement in ISO over the mk2, that means clean shots at 6400, and would most likely be enough for people to upgrade, however its reasonable to assume that we will also see improvements in metering/dynamic range, perhaps some other minor things. But you definitely won't see a great AF system on a 5d body, not now, not ever....so please don't expect that. Save up for a 1D-X



The problem with this sort of rationalizing is that while a 5DIII with an antiquated AF system might make sense for product alignment within the Canon family, it will also be competing for market share with the Nikon D800. The D700 already crushed the 5DII in terms of AF (51 points vs. 9) and speed, but the 5DII's significant advantage in resolution was enough to win over many buyers. If Nikon comes out a D800 that maintains its AF advantage over the 5D, but then makes up for the D700's resolution shortcomings with its long rumored 36 megapixel D800, Canon runs the risk of losing market share to Nikon.


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## Justin (Jan 19, 2012)

Doodah said:


> The Camera and Photo Imaging Show 2012 will be held from 9th to 12th Feb 2012. Expect Nikon D800 and Canon 5D3 to surface around that time. Just a hunch.



Yup. I would be incredibly surprised if Nikon releases their full frame high mpx small body flagship D800 without Canon countering with their full frame, high mpx, small body flagship. RIGHT Canon?


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## Justin (Jan 19, 2012)

mortadella said:


> But you definitely won't see a great AF system on a 5d body, not now, not ever....so please don't expect that. Save up for a 1D-X



I just don't see how Canon will compete in a world where Nikon offers a huge megapixel and auto-focus advantage over a similalry priced Canon camera. Canon will bleed share. They already did during the last generation of DSLRs.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 19, 2012)

Justin said:


> I just don't see how Canon will compete in a world where Nikon offers a huge megapixel and auto-focus advantage over a similalry priced Canon camera. Canon will bleed share. *They already did during the last generation of DSLRs.*



They did? In 2008, Canon and Nikon were nearly neck and neck in dSLR market share at 38 and 37%, respectively, but by 2010, Canon rose to 44.5% while Nikon fell to under 30%. Who's bleeding share, here?

I'm not saying the trend will continue, but historically, your statement is just plain wrong. Canon can look at the above numbers and come away thinking they don't have to change a thing...

One other key point - we're talking about FF cameras costing in excess of US$2,000. That's not the real competitive battleground. Sure, it's interesting to us here on CR...but the overwhelming majority of dSLR purchases are entry-level bodies with kit lenses, and that arena is the real driver of the overall sales figures. Granted, there's a trickle-down effect, and when pros are seen using Canon or Nikon that impacts consumer decisions to some degree. 

A 5DIII with weak AF stacked up against a D800 with more MP and better AF will not cut Canon as deeply as it might appear. People with a 5DII and a bunch of L-series lenses, people with a 60D and a couple of EF lenses, those folks are unlikely to sell it all and jump over to Nikon in droves. The number of first-time purchasers with no system buy-in and no brand loyalty who jump straight into a >$2K FF camera is vanishingly small, especially relative to the number of xxxD buyers.


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## zim (Jan 19, 2012)

Looks to me like Canon are in the middle of re-aligning their dslr range. They cannot release an xD camera with lesser AF spec than a xxD (can they? :-\ ) but they can have it the same and have the FF high IQ one digic 5 differentiator and that sits well. I’d have called it the 6D though and that may be the surprise?

As for the eye thingy, if it works well isn't that better suited to a fast camera....... 7Dii....... mmmmm

This is a bit like Christmas eve – almost more fun than Christmas day! ;D


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## traveller (Jan 19, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> They did? In 2008, Canon and Nikon were nearly neck and neck in dSLR market share at 38 and 37%, respectively, but by 2010, Canon rose to 44.5% while Nikon fell to under 30%. Who's bleeding share, here?
> 
> I'm not saying the trend will continue, but historically, your statement is just plain wrong. Canon can look at the above numbers and come away thinking they don't have to change a thing...
> 
> One other key point - we're talking about FF cameras costing in excess of US$2,000. That's not the real competitive battleground. Sure, it's interesting to us here on CR...but the overwhelming majority of dSLR purchases are entry-level bodies with kit lenses, and that arena is the real driver of the overall sales figures. Granted, there's a trickle-down effect, and when pros are seen using Canon or Nikon that impacts consumer decisions to some degree.



Yeah, that's your favourite statistic, but Nikon have been on the move in the mid-ground for a while now and that is where there are high margins and volume, for both bodies and lenses. Granted, there's quite a bit of lag in the system because the "advanced amateur/pro-sumer" or whatever name you wish to give them, tends to own a good collection of lenses. With growth in the DSLR sector now basically static, Canon would be fools to ignore this segment. My view is that if Canon continues to signal that they intend to play second fiddle to Nikon, more and more people will consider the switch; I cannot be the only person that does the 'back of cigarette packet' calculations of trade-in costs every time I hear rumours like this... 



neuroanatomist said:


> A 5DIII with weak AF stacked up against a D800 with more MP and better AF will not cut Canon as deeply as it might appear. People with a 5DII and a bunch of L-series lenses, people with a 60D and a couple of EF lenses, those folks are unlikely to sell it all and jump over to Nikon in droves. The number of first-time purchasers with no system buy-in and no brand loyalty who jump straight into a >$2K FF camera is vanishingly small, especially relative to the number of xxxD buyers.



We're not all going to change systems every generation based upon who's got the 'best' specifications, but when you see your chosen manufacturer continue to underspecify versus the competition year upon year and when you know that they have access to the same sort of technology, you start to think that they're taking you for a fool. 

This sounds like an anti-Canon tirade, which would be unfair based solely upon a rumour. Let me just state that I'm not buying any camera equipment until all the major players show their hands this year and then I will be making a long term decision on whether to stick or switch. I'm pretty sure that I won't be the only person in this position.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 19, 2012)

traveller said:


> My view is that if Canon continues to signal that they intend to play second fiddle to Nikon, more and more people will consider the switch.
> 
> We're not all going to change systems every generation based upon who's got the 'best' specifications, but when you see your chosen manufacturer continue to underspecify versus the competition year upon year and when you know that they have access to the same sort of technology, you start to think that they're taking you for a fool.



Depends on the market segment. At present, it seems that Canon is focusing on a polarized strategy - entry level bodies and pro bodies/lenses. The 1D X and the new supertele primes point to a focus on the latter. The 7D was aimed straight at the mid-market. We'll just have to wait and see what the 5DIII has to offer, and the D800 is still a rumor, too.

One could argue that 'your chosen manufacturer continue to underspecify versus the competition year upon year' could as easily apply to Nikon's low MP sensors. If the 36 MP D800 rumor is true, and if the IQ doesn't go down the toilet as a result, that would be a clear signal that Nikon rectified their 'underspecification' (and will likely involve just as much backpedaling and handwaving regarding strategy as Canon's releasing a flagship with _fewer_ MP than it's predecessor).


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## mortadella (Jan 19, 2012)

V8Beast said:


> mortadella said:
> 
> 
> > I wouldn't be surprised if AF was kept the same, but that wouldn't stop me from wanting to pick one up. If it gets 2 stop improvement in ISO over the mk2, that means clean shots at 6400, and would most likely be enough for people to upgrade, however its reasonable to assume that we will also see improvements in metering/dynamic range, perhaps some other minor things. But you definitely won't see a great AF system on a 5d body, not now, not ever....so please don't expect that. Save up for a 1D-X
> ...



The problem with Nikon is that while the D700 "crushed" the 5dmk2 in terms of AF specs, it also crushed their own D3, which is something Canon will not do, they aren't going to over spec a 5d body to kill sales of their 1 series bodies. And Canon seems to be doing fine when it comes to share. Forget sales figures, because there isnt a breakdown between models...Just for comparison I went to B&H and had a look a the number of reviews for the 5dmk2 compared to the D700 (not scientific but fairly balanced way to look at it) and when you combine the reviews for the body only, and kit you get about 2100 reviews for the 5dmk2 and for the d700 there are just over 1000. Sure its not sales figures but I would venture to guess the rate at which buyers leave reviews is not 1:1. I dont think the d700 "crushed" anything and therefore Canon would rather have their own house in order because what they're doing works for them...share-wise and otherwise.


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## V8Beast (Jan 19, 2012)

traveller said:


> This sounds like an anti-Canon tirade, which would be unfair based solely upon a rumour. Let me just state that I'm not buying any camera equipment until all the major players show their hands this year and then I will be making a long term decision on whether to stick or switch. I'm pretty sure that I won't be the only person in this position.



I'm with you 100%, and no, you're not alone. I've already researched how much of a hit I'd take on my bodies and glass, and if the 5DIII doesn't stack up well to the D800, I'm jumping ship. I currently shoot with a 1DsIII as my primary body, and a 5DC is a backup. Overall, I'm very happy with the 1Ds, but would just like some more resolution, DR, and high-ISO performance. A few more FPS would be nice, but 5 is enough for most situations and the AF works very well. I'm sure the 1Dx will address most of these issues, but at $6,800, I'd be paying for speed (12-14 FPS) that I don't really need, while still pining for more resolution. I have no doubt that the 1Dx will be have stunning low-light capability, but if that was my top priority I would switched to Nikon and bought a D3s a long time ago.

That's where the D800 comes in. If the rumored 36 mp sensor actually materializes, and it's DR and high-ISO abilities are merely on par with the D700, I see it as an upgrade over my 1DsIII. I don't care that I'd technically be "downgrading" from a pro to a prosumer body. I'm sure the times where I miss the 1D's tank-like build quality will be offset by the times where I appreciate the D800's lighter weight and smaller form factor. The D800 would simply better suit my needs than a 1DsIII or even a1Dx, and I'd save a bunch of money to boot. 

The big wild card is the 5DIII. If it specs out as a high-resolution, compact body with a much-improved AF system, then I'll stick with Canon. If it specs out as a 1Dx Jr. with the same 18 mp sensor, but with a castrated AF system, then all my Canon gear is going up on ebay.


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## motorhead (Jan 19, 2012)

What I would not pay for an Eye-Focus version of the 5D! I still love my Eos-3 for that, its wonderful.

But it needs a certain number of AF points to be successful. The Eos-3 offers a wall-to-wall "almost" seamless 45 points, well, not quite but it seems that way. And that's what the system needs top work well it strikes me.

So a message for Canon management: Yes Please.


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## traveller (Jan 19, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Depends on the market segment. At present, it seems that Canon is focusing on a polarized strategy - entry level bodies and pro bodies/lenses. The 1D X and the new supertele primes point to a focus on the latter. The 7D was aimed straight at the mid-market. We'll just have to wait and see what the 5DIII has to offer, and the D800 is still a rumor, too.



The 1D X and 7D are proof that Canon can listen to what its customers want and deliver; I hope that they can do that for the 5D MkII as well, because the number one complaint is the AF system. [Personally, I think that the 7D should've had the 1D AF system, but even I can admit that an APS-C 7D and an APS-H 1D MkIV would have been too close; I hope that they rethink this for the 7D MkII]. 



neuroanatomist said:


> One could argue that 'your chosen manufacturer continue to underspecify versus the competition year upon year' could as easily apply to Nikon's low MP sensors. If the 36 MP D800 rumor is true, and if the IQ doesn't go down the toilet as a result, that would be a clear signal that Nikon rectified their 'underspecification' (and will likely involve just as much backpedaling and handwaving regarding strategy as Canon's releasing a flagship with _fewer_ MP than it's predecessor).



True, but if the rumours are correct then Nikon _has_ listened to what its customers have asked for! If the 5D MkIII perpetuates a crippled AF system, Canon will not have.


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## V8Beast (Jan 19, 2012)

mortadella said:


> The problem with Nikon is that while the D700 "crushed" the 5dmk2 in terms of AF specs, it also crushed their own D3, which is something Canon will not do, they aren't going to over spec a 5d body to kill sales of their 1 series bodies.



People have said the same thing about the 5DII vs. the 1DsIII. IMHO, the D3s had enough of an advantage in high-ISO performance to distinguish it from the D700. At any rate, Nikon seems to be aligning the D4 as the ultimate in low-light, AF, and FPS while positioning the D800 as a slower, high mp body to distinguish between the two models. Canon might do the same same thing with the 1Dx and 5DIII, but they may also put an 18 mp sensor in the 5D while intentionally castrating its AF system. Only time will tell what Canon has planned. 



> And Canon seems to be doing fine when it comes to share. Forget sales figures, because there isnt a breakdown between models...Just for comparison I went to B&H and had a look a the number of reviews for the 5dmk2 compared to the D700 (not scientific but fairly balanced way to look at it) and when you combine the reviews for the body only, and kit you get about 2100 reviews for the 5dmk2 and for the d700 there are just over 1000. Sure its not sales figures but I would venture to guess the rate at which buyers leave reviews is not 1:1. I dont think the d700 "crushed" anything and therefore Canon would rather have their own house in order because what they're doing works for them...share-wise and otherwise.



I'm not a fan boy, so sales figures don't concern me. Canon knows the market better than me, so if they decide that a low mp, low FPS body with an antiquated AF system is best for sales, so be it. It just so happens that such a body won't suit my shooting needs, so if Nikon offers a better product, I'm switching.


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## traveller (Jan 19, 2012)

mortadella said:


> The problem with Nikon is that while the D700 "crushed" the 5dmk2 in terms of AF specs, it also crushed their own D3, which is something Canon will not do, they aren't going to over spec a 5d body to kill sales of their 1 series bodies.



This is why Nikon appear to be taking care to place the D800 in a different market position to the D4, as a slow but high resolution camera as opposed to a high-speed and low noise camera. 



mortadella said:


> And Canon seems to be doing fine when it comes to share. Forget sales figures, because there isnt a breakdown between models...Just for comparison I went to B&H and had a look a the number of reviews for the 5dmk2 compared to the D700 (not scientific but fairly balanced way to look at it) and when you combine the reviews for the body only, and kit you get about 2100 reviews for the 5dmk2 and for the d700 there are just over 1000. Sure its not sales figures but I would venture to guess the rate at which buyers leave reviews is not 1:1. I dont think the d700 "crushed" anything and therefore Canon would rather have their own house in order because what they're doing works for them...share-wise and otherwise.



Forget looking at past sales figures, that's what Kodak did and it told them there was nothing to worry about!


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## V8Beast (Jan 19, 2012)

traveller said:


> True, but if the rumours are correct then Nikon _has_ listened to what its customers have asked for! If the 5D MkIII perpetuates a crippled AF system, Canon will not have.



Exactly. Rumors are just rumors, but consider this. If the 5DIII gets the 1Dx's 18 mp sensor, or one similar to it, and the D800's 36 mp sensor actually reaches production, then Nikon and Canon will have both completely reversed strategies. A 18 mp sensor geared toward low-light performance is something I would have expected from the D700's successor, not the 5DIII. Likewise, a 36 mp sensor with an emphasis on resolution over noise is something I would have expected from the 5DII's successor, not the D800.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 19, 2012)

traveller said:


> The 1D X and 7D are proof that Canon can listen to what its customers want and deliver...
> 
> ...if the rumours are correct then Nikon _has_ listened to what its customers have asked for! If the 5D MkIII perpetuates a crippled AF system, Canon will not have.



If Canon had listened to prominent wildlife photographers using the 1D IV, they certainly would not have eliminated the f/8 AF capability from the 1D X (at the same time as reducing pixels on target by going from 1.3x to FF) - and no doubt even if Canon didn't actually ask, they had to know it would be an issue. That indicates they either eliminated f/8 AF for technical reasons (they could have come right out and said this, but they didn't, and if they had they'd look foolish after the D4 announcement!), or it was a marketing-driven decision, i.e. induce people to spend thousands of dollars to upgrade to longer/faster lenses. If the reason for eliminating the f/8 AF was the latter, that same logic could support a decision to cripple the AF system of the 5DIII to induce people toward the 1D X.

I hope that's not the case, but I do see it as a likely scenario.



traveller said:


> Forget looking at past sales figures, that's what Kodak did and it told them there was nothing to worry about!



How many companies did that before Kodak...and did Kodak 'listen'? Just because something makes sense doesn't mean it will be followed. Keep in mind that many companies are short-sighted (and being publically traded and stock-market driven contributes to that mentality). Many decision-makers within companies are also short-sighted, and in many cases (and this I know from personal experience), the internal corporate compensation/bonus structures are often geared to reward short term successes at the expense of the long term.


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## jaduffy007 (Jan 19, 2012)

I just can't believe Canon will not significantly improve the AF performance for the mark III. That would be absolutely stupid imo. The D800 will eat its lunch. Hell, the NEX 7 would compete with it! :


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## jaduffy007 (Jan 19, 2012)

V8Beast said:


> The big wild card is the 5DIII. If it specs out as a high-resolution, compact body with a much-improved AF system, then I'll stick with Canon. If it specs out as a 1Dx Jr. with the same 18 mp sensor, but with a castrated AF system, then all my Canon gear is going up on ebay.



I'm right behind you.


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## EYEONE (Jan 19, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Justin said:
> 
> 
> > I just don't see how Canon will compete in a world where Nikon offers a huge megapixel and auto-focus advantage over a similalry priced Canon camera. Canon will bleed share. *They already did during the last generation of DSLRs.*
> ...



That's true. If Canon releases a 5D3 with the same AF as the 5D2 or even 60D I would probably just buy a cheaper 5D2. I'm certainly not on the fence for switching. Canon would not lose my business they would just lack a sell of one 5D3. I think they can deal with that.

That being said "because you can" is not a great reason to put a old AF system in a new camera. But all in all it will probably save me some money as I wouldn't get a 5D3.

I would expect Canon to put a 19 point system with fewer cross type points than the 7D in the 5D3. Maybe 11 or 15 and give it a wider spread. Nothing fancy needed. But they can't just transplant the 7D system in to the 5D3 because the coverage would be too small. Maybe they'll just spring for a totally new system.


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## awinphoto (Jan 19, 2012)

jaduffy007 said:


> V8Beast said:
> 
> 
> > The big wild card is the 5DIII. If it specs out as a high-resolution, compact body with a much-improved AF system, then I'll stick with Canon. If it specs out as a 1Dx Jr. with the same 18 mp sensor, but with a castrated AF system, then all my Canon gear is going up on ebay.
> ...



Well if you guys do, feel free to shoot me a message with how much you guys want for your lenses =)


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## keithfullermusic (Jan 19, 2012)

I feel like Canon will have to make the 5Diii sweet - how can they not? It is the camera that everyone loves. People are freaking out about the AF, but it seems to be the biggest complaint about the ii, so they will have to fix it I would think.

Can't wait until it is released and we can see who guessed right.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 19, 2012)

EYEONE said:


> But they can't just transplant the 7D system in to the 5D3 because the coverage would be too small.



Funny you should mention that. 

Canon could possibly do _exactly_ that - use the 7D's AF sensor at it's current physical size in a FF camera, and because it would have 19 cross-type points it would be 'better' from a marketing standpoint (they'd ignore the reduced spread of the points), people clamoring for a '7D AF in a 5DII upgrade' would be quite happy, Canon would save development costs...and in all honesty, the coverage actually wouldn't be all that much worse than the current 5DII, and the AI Servo performance would get a lot better (denser coverage in the center with more cross-type points).

See below - when you superimpose the 7D AF points (black) at actual size relative to it's frame onto the 5DII's AF points (blue), the vertical extent of the AF points is actually the same, and the points 'closest' to the rule-of-thirds intersections are no further away than they are on the 5DII; only the extreme lateral points get pulled in a bit.

Food for thought....


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## JR (Jan 19, 2012)

keithfullermusic said:


> I feel like Canon will have to make the 5Diii sweet - how can they not? It is the camera that everyone loves. People are freaking out about the AF, but it seems to be the biggest complaint about the ii, so they will have to fix it I would think.
> 
> Can't wait until it is released and we can see who guessed right.



True indeed! Now with a rumored announcement of the D800 the first week of February (according to Nikon Rumors - though they have been wrong before) then and only then I beleive the count down to the 5D mkIII release will begin. Hopefully anywhere from March to SUmmer! Cant wait! I wonder what the booky (!?! I know this is not how it is written!) at Las Vegas place the chance of the 5D mkII getting some real AF improvements! - lol


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## EYEONE (Jan 19, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> EYEONE said:
> 
> 
> > But they can't just transplant the 7D system in to the 5D3 because the coverage would be too small.
> ...



Well, point taken. But the 5D2's spread is pretty cramped as it stands. Which makes me think that I'd be fine with 9 points if they spread was wider (and they were cross type).

But come on Neuro, you're just encouraging Canon to be evvvvvvil.


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## V8Beast (Jan 19, 2012)

awinphoto said:


> Well if you guys do, feel free to shoot me a message with how much you guys want for your lenses =)



I will. Seriously  The problem is we both have the 17-40 and 24-105, so those won't be of much use to you. I will have a bunch of speedlites for sale, though. I used to have the 70-200 f/4 also. It's a great lens, but you could sell it for $550-$600, and upgrade to my 70-300L that might be for sale


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## MartinvH (Jan 19, 2012)

This rumor sounds very trustworthy and in line with earlier sensible rumors (not with wishlists offcourse)

Aside of the eyecontrol this what I expect the 5DMK3 to come out like.


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## K-amps (Jan 19, 2012)

Dumb question coming... ;D

Regardless for Focus points, why dont we see coverage on the 4 intersection points of the rule of thirds grid? Looking at the focus maps posted by John, I see coverage near the grid intersections but non on the intersection points. Heck to make it simple, there should be at least 5 points in every camera, center and 4 grid intersections to start off...


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## K-amps (Jan 19, 2012)

V8Beast said:


> I'm not a fan boy, so sales figures don't concern me. Canon knows the market better than me, so if they decide that a low mp, low FPS body with an antiquated AF system is best for sales, so be it. It just so happens that such a body won't suit my shooting needs, so if Nikon offers a better product, I'm switching.



keep your canon glass... perhaps give this a try?

http://conurus.com/sony


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## kirispupis (Jan 19, 2012)

Although this is a rumor, it certainly sounds sensible.

From the way I read the post, it will not have the AF of the 7D but it certainly sounds like it will be an improvement on top of the 5D2.

GPS and eye focus sound like good features for this price range of camera. Canon + Nikon are facing more competition from the gadget obsessed Sony cameras and the eye focus in particular would seem to tempt this crowd.

It would be kind of nice to see Canon do something big with the 5D3. The original 5D was the first relatively affordable FF camera, while the 5D2 was the first heavily used DSLR for video. I have a feeling the 5D3 will not really be a revolutionary camera. It will be released mainly as an answer to the D800 and Sony.


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## tt (Jan 19, 2012)

What it they just enlarged the AF of the 7D? a FF larger sized version? Would that fly? Wouldn't most settle for a 7D equivalent version with a good central point, if it was larger but increased proportionally from crop to FF ie same relative spread as the 7D, with usable non-central points?


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## juwi (Jan 19, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> EYEONE said:
> 
> 
> > But they can't just transplant the 7D system in to the 5D3 because the coverage would be too small.



Sure they can. Pentax also did it with their medium Format camera. Now, if you think that a crop-sized AF is ridiculous on FF, then think again about how ridiculous a crop-size AF is on 645.


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## traveller (Jan 19, 2012)

EYEONE said:


> That's true. If Canon releases a 5D3 with the same AF as the 5D2 or even 60D I would probably just buy a cheaper 5D2. I'm certainly not on the fence for switching. Canon would not lose my business they would just lack a sell of one 5D3. I think they can deal with that.



That's the other problem for Canon from a marketing point of view; if they don't do something more than simply change the sensor for the new 18MP one, there will be a lot of people in this position. The last thing that Canon wants is 5D MkII owners not bothering to upgrade and potential full frame upgraders settling for previous 5D models. If they do use the 18MP sensor, I cannot see the point of a camera that has great high ISO capabilities without the AF system to allow you to fully utilise this. After all, the whole point of using high ISOs is to enable you to raise shutter speeds in low light!


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## seenew (Jan 19, 2012)

Eye-control focus was a fun novelty, but it didn't work very well. I bought an old Elan 7E when I started my photo classes back in college just because I noticed it had the feature.

Cool conversation piece, but pretty impractical.


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## rcha101 (Jan 19, 2012)

Something about term 'eye control' just gives me the creeps.


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## wickidwombat (Jan 19, 2012)

I think alot of people are missing the potential for the return of eye control to be great, with the exponential increases in processing power we have seen since the elan 7e do you really think it will be just a cut and paste?

The potential for the eye control ai servo mode for say shooting a runway model or model walking towards /away from you. the eye control has the potential to make this camera own the portrait modeling arena if the AF is fast and accurate. Personally for a 5d I dont need 45 point AF anywhere from 11 to 19 would be fine as long as the points are fast accurate and have good focus tracking ability. 

As far as points go with the 5d2 all you really need to do is add 2 more points in the narrow axis and space them out a bit further to make it 11. I would also be happy if they just bolted the 7D af system in as Neuro points out the spread is basically the same

Now make those 11 points all cross type and perhaps make the center 5 points f2.8 (center and 2 each side on the narrow axis closest to the golden lines and canon will have a sales hit they will struggle to keep up with I seriously doubt something like this would take sales from the 1Dx.

I would like to see increasing weather sealing to 7D levels (mainly better battery door and memory card door)
Canon need a pro build non gripped body

I really wonder what sort of sensor they will use I hope the 5D line stays as a clean high iso perhaps a high MP low frame rate lower iso performer 6D using the same body could be developed to keep the Hiigh MP crowd happy.

Currently I am very happy with the 5D body and control layout. there are a couple of things i would like. AEB activation same as 1D (ie press 2 buttons together turn the wheel and boom AEB is set) some custom program buttons would be nice. (ie so can dedicate one to iso only)

I would like the battery to stay the same for backwards comptability as I wont be selling my 5dmk2 bodies any time soon


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 19, 2012)

EYEONE said:


> Well, point taken. But the 5D2's spread is pretty cramped as it stands. Which makes me think that I'd be fine with 9 points if they spread was wider (and they were cross type).
> 
> But come on Neuro, you're just encouraging Canon to be evvvvvvil.



Honestly, I wasn't being sarcastic! Consider...from one point of view, the outer AF points of the 5DII essentially suck, so the 5DII has a very limited AF point spread, i.e. no spread at all, functionally just one AF point smack in the middle. From that point of view, just dropping the existing 7D's AF sensor, sized for APS-C, into the 5DII is a huge improvement!



K-amps said:


> Regardless for Focus points, why dont we see coverage on the 4 intersection points of the rule of thirds grid? Looking at the focus maps posted by John, I see coverahe near the grid intersections but non on the intersection points. Heck to make it simple, there should be at least 5 points in every camera, center and 4 grid intersections to start off...



There are limitations on how far from the center the AF points can be spread, especially in the vertical dimension. Basically, three reasons:

[list type=decimal]
[*]Limitations on the size of the secondary mirror. Light for AF passes through the semi-transparent part of the main mirror (most is reflected up to the viewfinder), then is reflected off the secondary mirror down to the AF sensor. There is limited space behind the main mirror, based on the necessary geometry (i.e. the main mirror has to be at a 45° angle to the incoming light, and the secondary mirror has to be behind the main mirror and at an angle of 90° to the main mirror, so it's length is limited by the distance between the main mirror and the image sensor).
[*]Distortion. With many lenses, the edges of the frame are subject to distortion (barrel/pincushion), and that reduces the accuracy of phase detect AF.
[*]Vingetting. The AF system needs a certain amount of light to work. Almost all lenses vignette to some degree, meaning there might not be enough light at the edges of the frame. For example, the EF 17-40mm f/4L has >2 stops of vignetting wide open at the wide end - that means at the edges of the frame, the AF sensors would not heve enough light to operate.
[/list]

Still, but the 7D and the 1D IV have points that are almost right over the intersections, and the 1DsIII and 1D X come quite close. Down toward the bottom of this article on EOS AF systems, there's a set of mouse-over comparisons that show the relative AF point spread of the recent xD bodies.

It's worth noting that none of these limitations apply to contrast detect AF, so using LiveView you can autofocus right out to the edge of the frame.


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## Picsfor (Jan 19, 2012)

Here's an interesting thought -

what if the 5D3 came out with 21-24mp, 12800 working ISO with H1 & H2 up to 51k - but 9 full cross AF points that were all responsive to f2.8.

Would you all be trading up? Or would you stay with 5D2's?


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## juwi (Jan 20, 2012)

I don't even think that 9 Points were necessary if they just were better (i.e. cross points).

Looking at neuroanatomists Link to the digital picture, (for which I'll have to +1 him ASAP) the current layout of 5DII focus points looks less than idea. Essentially they're crowded in the image center and all but the center point are not cross type. I think many people would be totally okay with just 6 points if they all were to be cross type and spread further from the center. Currently all but the outer right and outer left point are in the center grid if you look at the rule of third grids. What about an AF with one cross sensor in the center and one in center top, center bottom, center left, center right each. That would add up to 5 cross points. I think that would already be an improvement. Maybe throw in some line points in between, but basically a larger field with a few cross points would imo be an improvment already.


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## mccrum (Jan 20, 2012)

Picsfor said:


> Here's an interesting thought -
> 
> what if the 5D3 came out with 21-24mp, 12800 working ISO with H1 & H2 up to 51k - but 9 full cross AF points that were all responsive to f2.8.
> 
> Would you all be trading up? Or would you stay with 5D2's?


To be honest, I'd trade up with one point in the center that worked as well as the Nikon system. I have no problem focusing and recomposing, the problem is getting a decent focus in low-light situations in the first place. 9 points that worked with great ISO like that and equal megapixels would be fantastic as far as I'm concerned.


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## V8Beast (Jan 20, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> Personally for a 5d I dont need 45 point AF anywhere from 11 to 19 would be fine as long as the points are fast accurate and have good focus tracking ability.



Anyone's who has shot with a 5D or 5DII would probably agree. Canon isn't going to put an AF system that comes anywhere close to the 1-series, so the best we can hope for is a handful of cross-sensor AF points that are very accurate, or a buttload of non-cross AF points. 

People tend to get fixated on whether AF points are cross-sensitive or not, but IMHO there are benefits of in certain situations of having a greater number of AF points, even if they're not cross-sensors, opposed to having a fewer number of AF points that are cross sensitive. Just for kicks, I dug my old 1DIIn out of the attic today, hooked it up to my 70-300L, and shot some pan blurs of cars in rush hour traffic. In this configuration, only the center point is cross sensitive. You need f/2.8 or faster glass for the other 6 cross sensors to work. 

Even a body as antiquated as the 1DII has a nifty AF expansion function that varies based on focal length. At shorter focal lengths, it expands to the 6 AF points adjacent to the chosen AF point, and at 200mm and longer, it expands to the 12 AF points that are adjacent to the chosen AF point. Compared to my time shooting under similar circumstances with a 7D, the 1DII yielded a noticeably higher percentage of sharp, in focus images despite only having one cross-type AF point. If not for the 1DII's extra 26 AF points, I'm certain the 7D would have stomped it.


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## wickidwombat (Jan 20, 2012)

My old 1D mk1 AF kicked the hell out of the 5dmk2 AF


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## V8Beast (Jan 20, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> My old 1D mk1 AF kicked the hell out of the 5dmk2 AF



Why do I not find that surprising? My Powershot G7 focuses more quickly than my 5D.


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## awinphoto (Jan 20, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> I think alot of people are missing the potential for the return of eye control to be great, with the exponential increases in processing power we have seen since the elan 7e do you really think it will be just a cut and paste?
> 
> The potential for the eye control ai servo mode for say shooting a runway model or model walking towards /away from you. the eye control has the potential to make this camera own the portrait modeling arena if the AF is fast and accurate. Personally for a 5d I dont need 45 point AF anywhere from 11 to 19 would be fine as long as the points are fast accurate and have good focus tracking ability.
> 
> ...



I would welcome the eye control but as we have learned about higher MP cameras, especially higher density cameras are even more demanding on the lenses and focus becomes more critical because it is much more magnified, with the 5d, the tracking better be pretty spot on or some some sort of secondary manual selection/override in case it fails, a secondary shooter uses it and their eye isnt calibrated, etc... There's just so many what ifs, especially since I would guess more people would be shooting the new 5d camera than all the eye controlled film cameras combined. As long as its an option and not the only option, the. I'd be cool.


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## wickidwombat (Jan 20, 2012)

on the elan 7 there is a switch to enable or disable the eye control pretty simple if you dont want to use it, I would guess they would put something similar on it


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jan 20, 2012)

Less than points than the 7D AF and less than 50D fps, i.e. same old pathetic tired old king of the hill behind the times reactive Canon.
Will the real Canon please stand up again, please?


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jan 20, 2012)

BlueMixWhite said:


> If the specs are as stated, getting the mkII now makes every sense.



+1 or better yet dumped your losses and aim for the D800


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jan 20, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Note also that GPS certification doesn't have to mean in-body. It could be a WFT portrait grip, too.
> 
> I find the rumored AF spec completely unsurprising.



I hope Canon finds it completely unsurprising when I stick with my 5D2 and start eying the D800 in earnest.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jan 20, 2012)

AprilForever said:


> Maybe someone could cannibalize a 5d and a EOS 3 into one?



Canon could, heck they had the tech when the 5D2 came out, but they prefer to let marketing rule the roost of engineering and play games.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jan 20, 2012)

mortadella said:


> The specs coming out of this rumor may not be eye-popping or drool inspiring...but rest assured the mk3 will dazzle with it's low-light/high ISO performance. It's not going to be a body you grab to shoot sports, and Canon hasn't intended to be.
> 
> Unless you're going to spend $6k-$7k for a body like the 1D-X you aren't going to get a "do-it-all" body. If you have a sub $3500 budget, you need to buy a second body like a 7D to be able to track your moving subject and have the burst speed to not miss as many shots. And the 7D is going to have Rebel quality ISO performance.
> 
> But you definitely won't see a great AF system on a 5d body, not now, not ever....so please don't expect that. Save up for a 1D-X



I think people would rather save up for a D800 and get all that for a good deal less than the 1DX


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jan 20, 2012)

mortadella said:


> V8Beast said:
> 
> 
> > mortadella said:
> ...



The 5D2 already crushed the 1Ds3 anyway. If they play a pathetic game again the D800 will start crushing them. DOn't forget that the D700 was wayyy behind in reach and detail and had no video. The D800 will not have their serious shortcomings....


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## briansquibb (Jan 20, 2012)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> The 5D2 already crushed the 1Ds3 anyway.



The 1Ds3 still produces better low iso images than the 5D2 - and it has a far better AF than the 5D2, plus all the 1 series benefits - such as weatherproofing 

If you are happy to take pictures up to iso1600 a used 1Ds3 makes a lot of sense.

I think that cameras have moved away from a mp war to an iso war. Personally I dont take many images at 3200 or higher because by then I have usually got out the tripod of the flash. 

I would love to see the focus of new cameras being on dynamic range to help cure the bette noir of photographers - burnt out highlights or lack of detail in the shadows


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## K-amps (Jan 20, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> K-amps said:
> 
> 
> > Regardless for Focus points, why dont we see coverage on the 4 intersection points of the rule of thirds grid? Looking at the focus maps posted by John, I see coverahe near the grid intersections but non on the intersection points. Heck to make it simple, there should be at least 5 points in every camera, center and 4 grid intersections to start off...
> ...



John thanks so much!!  You are very helpful and generous with your time and knowledge.

Great article by the way!


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jan 21, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > The 5D2 already crushed the 1Ds3 anyway.
> ...



I mean the 5D2 crushed the 1Ds3 in terms of already low 1Ds sales tanking, nothing about which body itself was better.


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## GoldenEagle (Jan 21, 2012)

Hi all, first post here!

What I haven't seen discussed re: 5DM3 is the *impact of higher useable ISO for lowlight shooters on the entire Canon L-series telephoto lens line*. Currently, using Lightroom 3 noise reduction (@~35% slider), I can use 5000 ISO on my 5DM2 all day long, with very little noise impact on IQ. If the 5DM3 can get me a 2-stop ISO improvement, that equates to around 20,000 useable ISO. What that means, from a lens acquisition/ownership perspective: 

A) I could work with a 70-200mm *f/4L* ($600/$1100 w/IS) instead of a 70-200mm *f/2.8L* ($2200/$2400) and still have sufficient shutter speed (1/200 or better) to freeze most subject movement, low light, no flash.

B) Similar comparison at 300mm for f/2.8L vs f/4.0L: *$7300*/5.2lb vs *$1300*/2.6lb. Savings=$6,000, plus no monopod required!

C) Even better, at 400mm focal length, with a 20,000 ISO, couldn't I get a 400mm *f/5.6L* for *$1,200*, instead of a 400mm *f/2.8L* for *$12,000*? I have neither budget nor the desire to drag an 8- to 11-lb monster around all night. With the 400mm f/5.6L, it's only 2.8 lbs, less than the 70-200 f/2.8L!

*What I'm seeing potentially is the ultra-high ISO available in a 5DM3 (plus 1DX, potentially 7D2) making the incredibly expensive and heavy f/2.8L telephotos only being used by the elite/rich sports/outdoor shooters, allowing a lot of less-financially well-off shooters to produce still-great imagery using far less expensive and lighter f/4.0L-f/5.6L telephoto lenses.*

Spending $1-2K on a 5D body upgrade from M2 to M3, just for the ISO alone, could/would pay for itself and then some, immediately in lens savings, wouldn't it? What am I missing?

Give me ISO! GE


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## briansquibb (Jan 21, 2012)

LetTheRightLensIn said:



> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > LetTheRightLensIn said:
> ...



+1 I think you are right from that point of view.

On paper the 5DII is much more attractive. Again I suspect that photograhers are being lead on a iso chase by the marketeers. The 1Ds3 is all about image quality with the push being studio work as it 'only' goes to iso 1600 (expanded to 3200) whereas the 5DII is good to 3200 and acceptable at 6400 (with care).

It seems to be not generally understood that the higher the iso the lower the IQ of the image (even if noise free). Obviously this varies from body to body and it starts being significant at different points - rather like diffraction starts to lower the IQ.

I have chosen to move to the 1Ds3 from my 7Ds as it will serve me as a 1DX now, so that I am ready to upgrade the body without having to go through the 1.6 to ff hoops. I suspect several of those jumping from 7D to either 5DIII or 1DX will find it very hard and there will be bad stories about the new bodies. I shoot mostly in reasonable light so iso 1600 is more than good enough for me.

This happened with those jumping to the 7D and getting soft images because they had set the AF up wrongly. I bought a so called soft focussing 7D and got nothing but sharp pictures once I sorted the AF system.

I am out shooting today with the 1Ds3 and the 400 f/2.8 - this is the equivalent of the 1.6 with a 250mm - which highlights what is going to happen when people move to ff - Canon will sell longer (and more profitable) lens.


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