# Industry News: Nikon announces the entry-level full-frame Nikon Z 5, a new lens and teleconverters



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jul 21, 2020)

> Nikon Expands the NIKKOR Z Lens Lineup with the Addition of the Extremely Compact and Versatile NIKKOR Z 24-50mm f/4-6.3 as well as the new Z TELECONVERTER TC-2.0X and TC-1.4X; Nikon Also Announces Free Webcam Utility
> *MELVILLE, NY (July 21, 2020) –* Today, Nikon Inc. announced the Z 5, the new full-frame (FX-format) entry-point into its award-winning lineup of Z series mirrorless cameras. The Nikon Z 5 combines sophisticated features inherited from the Z 7 and Z 6 with the benefits of Nikon’s next-generation Z mount at an unprecedented value. For those new to mirrorless or creators looking to push the limits of their craft with the power of full-frame, the compact Z 5 will exceed expectations. With an incredibly robust feature set, including in-camera vibration reduction (VR) image stabilization (IBIS) and the perfect balance of seamless automation and full manual control, creators can effortlessly share their artistic passions...



Continue reading...


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 21, 2020)

Looks like a lovely wee Camera, I just finished a wee over view video(Ricci Talks) on it and it seems to hit all the marks for a entry level FF. Still was hoping to see the Z6s and Z7s announced with it, but it looks like they'll be a longer wait before I can compare these to the R5 and R6.

The biggest flaw here with the Z5 is it just can't compete with the RP on price, and that is where I feel this could have been aimed more squarely at. Camera manufactures are going to be pushed kicking and screaming into the sub £1000 FF market.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Jul 21, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> Looks like a lovely wee Camera, I just finished a wee over view video on it and it seems to hit all the marks for a entry level FF. Still was hoping to see the Z6s and Z7s announced with it, but it looks like they'll be a longer wait before I can compare these to the R5 and R6.
> 
> The biggest flaw here with the Z5 is it just can't compete with the RP on price, and that is where I feel this could have been aimed more squarely at. Camera manufactures are going to be pushed kicking and screaming into the sub £1000 FF market.



I agree, the price segment they went for is sort of in no-mans land.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 21, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I agree, the price segment they went for is sort of in no-mans land.



It is currently more than I paid for for my new Z6 (£1,399.99). And if we compare the the Z5 is £1719 with the 24-50 and the RP is £1359 with the 24-105 IS 7.1 edition. So going into a camera shop to buy my first camera: Canon is cheeper, has a longer zoom, both have IS(I won't care what kind of IS), and both are SD(and I won't care that one has 2 slots).

From a pro point of view it could make a good second camera like the Z6 does, but the Z6 is still there.


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## FS670ES (Jul 21, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> Looks like a lovely wee Camera, I just finished a wee over view video(Ricci Talks) on it and it seems to hit all the marks for a entry level FF. Still was hoping to see the Z6s and Z7s announced with it, but it looks like they'll be a longer wait before I can compare these to the R5 and R6.
> 
> The biggest flaw here with the Z5 is it just can't compete with the RP on price, and that is where I feel this could have been aimed more squarely at. Camera manufactures are going to be pushed kicking and screaming into the sub £1000 FF market.


In few months the price of Z5 will go down as usual with Nikon.


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## Mark D5 TEAM II (Jul 21, 2020)

Meh. Next. That's it, that's the post.


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## amorse (Jul 21, 2020)

That looks like a great entry level camera - I'm sure it will do well.


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## Chaitanya (Jul 21, 2020)

Canon was mocked for recycling 18MP sensor but no one seems to pay attention to recycling of 24MP sensor.


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## Chaitanya (Jul 21, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> It is currently more than I paid for for my new Z6 (£1,399.99). And if we compare the the Z5 is £1719 with the 24-50 and the RP is £1359 with the 24-105 IS 7.1 edition. So going into a camera shop to buy my first camera: Canon is cheeper, has a longer zoom, both have IS(I won't care what kind of IS), and both are SD(and I won't care that one has 2 slots).
> 
> From a pro point of view it could make a good second camera like the Z6 does, but the Z6 is still there.


Dont forget Canon 24-105mm IS STM has very good macro mode and better build quality than Nikon's 24-50mm.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 21, 2020)

Chaitanya said:


> Canon was mocked for recycling 18MP sensor but no one seems to pay attention to recycling of 24MP sensor.



Its not the same sensor as the Z6, it isn't BSI and has 0.1MP less. But regardless, just because the 18MP sensor was mocked for being reused, doesn't mean we have to mock sensors.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 21, 2020)

Chaitanya said:


> Dont forget Canon 24-105mm IS STM has very good macro mode and better build quality than Nikon's 24-50mm.



Making it a even better buy with the RP. Other on the Nikon side the 24-50mm seems hated. But honestly, if someone buys this or a RP I am not going to loose sleep, just let them take nice photos.


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## Max TT (Jul 21, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> Looks like a lovely wee Camera, I just finished a wee over view video(Ricci Talks) on it and it seems to hit all the marks for a entry level FF. Still was hoping to see the Z6s and Z7s announced with it, but it looks like they'll be a longer wait before I can compare these to the R5 and R6.
> 
> The biggest flaw here with the Z5 is it just can't compete with the RP on price, and that is where I feel this could have been aimed more squarely at. Camera manufactures are going to be pushed kicking and screaming into the sub £1000 FF market.


I'd bet that there will be a rebate by end of year or sooner, it'll probably go down $200 to $300. Somewhere in the $1100 to $1200 price range seem about right


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 21, 2020)

Max C said:


> I'd bet that there will be a rebate by end of year or sooner, it'll probably go down $200 to $300. Somewhere in the $1100 to $1200 price range seem about right



The RP is already down there, but I mean its not like this is even on a consideration list for most people that'll visit a photography forum. Still an odd ball position, it would have made more sense if it came with the Z6s and Z7s moving up market like the R5 and R6. As it stands the Z6 has the BSI sensor, better build, better storage, and it is cheeper. And compared to the RP, the RP is cheeper.

And as a cheeky aside. The more than fashionably late 70-200 S works with the extenders. But it looks way to big for the current Z bodies... The lens and body departments in Nikon and Canon seem to be really out of step with each other in some places. Like the range of 1.8 S lenses just feel perfect on the Z. The RF 70-200 is perfect on the R, but then the f/1.2 lenses are just massively unbalanced looking and dying for a bigger body behind them.


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## melgross (Jul 21, 2020)

Looks like a nice camera for the money. Canon will have to update the RP.


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## Mark3794 (Jul 21, 2020)

Lovely camera i'd like a RP mark 2 with the 30mp sensor and dual cards, everything else is fine


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## AJ (Jul 21, 2020)

If Canon updates the RP with IBIS, I'd gladly pay that money.


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## Bert63 (Jul 21, 2020)

Nikon still makes cameras? Holy cow! Who knew?

Nudge me when something interesting happens. Imma go stare at my 'backordered' R5 invoice.


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## Bert63 (Jul 21, 2020)

Chaitanya said:


> Canon was mocked for recycling 18MP sensor but no one seems to pay attention to recycling of 24MP sensor.




That's because 24MP is very close to 24p, and everyone loves 24p.


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## ethanz (Jul 21, 2020)

Does the 24-50mm range with the larger aperture seem pointless to anyone else? Sure it is a very compact lens but it doesn't seem that useful to me.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 21, 2020)

ethanz said:


> Does the 24-50mm range with the larger aperture seem pointless to anyone else? Sure it is a very compact lens but it doesn't seem that useful to me.



You have a wide and a 'portrait' end, very much like people are accustomed to on phones now. Taking it on holiday, you're unlikely to be disappointed in the results.


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## Chaitanya (Jul 21, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> Making it a even better buy with the RP. Other on the Nikon side the 24-50mm seems hated. But honestly, if someone buys this or a RP I am not going to loose sleep, just let them take nice photos.


That macro feature alone coupled with current rebate prices(and DPAF) is why I am finding RP very tempting though due to current lockdowns avoiding spending money on new cameras. My primary use is macro and occasional behavioural videos of frogs and snakes(so dont mind the crop).


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## tomri (Jul 21, 2020)

Chaitanya said:


> Canon was mocked for recycling 18MP sensor but no one seems to pay attention to recycling of 24MP sensor.


Well, yes, but with the important difference that Nikon started using on-sensor ADCs many years before Canon. So even if the Z5 reuses the sensor from the D750 as it is being rumored, that sensor will outperform the R, RP, 6dii, and 5div in terms of low iso DR by a significant margin.


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## Jack Jian (Jul 21, 2020)

Seems like they aimed at R6, but then it's fall short that they have to retract saying it's "entry level" but nowhere near RP. But Z5 is a very nice camera for its price.


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## Treyarnon (Jul 21, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I agree, the price segment they went for is sort of in no-mans land.


This new Nikon is £800 less than the R6.
And with the Nikon you get a free lens and 4 extra MP.

Of course we don't yet know how well the AF and IBIS systems will compare - but that is quite a wide price difference. I feel it's Canon which has gone for the 'no man's land' price segments


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## KeithBreazeal (Jul 21, 2020)

WOW! A blazing 4.5 fps!


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## AlanF (Jul 21, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> Looks like a lovely wee Camera, I just finished a wee over view video(Ricci Talks) on it and it seems to hit all the marks for a entry level FF. Still was hoping to see the Z6s and Z7s announced with it, but it looks like they'll be a longer wait before I can compare these to the R5 and R6.
> 
> The biggest flaw here with the Z5 is it just can't compete with the RP on price, and that is where I feel this could have been aimed more squarely at. Camera manufactures are going to be pushed kicking and screaming into the sub £1000 FF market.


Fortunately, it's weather sealed so you can wee over it.


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## Baron_Karza (Jul 21, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> Looks like a lovely wee Camera, I just finished a wee over view video(Ricci Talks) on it and it seems to hit all the marks for a entry level FF. Still was hoping to see the Z6s and Z7s announced with it, but it looks like they'll be a longer wait before I can compare these to the R5 and R6.
> 
> The biggest flaw here with the* Z5 is it just can't compete with the RP on price*, and that is where I feel this could have been aimed more squarely at. Camera manufactures are going to be pushed kicking and screaming into the sub £1000 FF market.



At introductory prices for both cameras, for $100 more, the canon has a better screen, that articulates. I would miss that. But with the added IBIS, if I had to purchase based on body alone, I would go for the Nikon. Of course there are more differences, but for me the IBIS is a major feature can't live without.


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## tomri (Jul 21, 2020)

Treyarnon said:


> This new Nikon is £800 less than the R6.
> And with the Nikon you get a free lens and 4 extra MP.
> 
> Of course we don't yet know how well the AF and IBIS systems will compare - but that is quite a wide price difference. I feel it's Canon which has gone for the 'no man's land' price segments


Agree. Although if you‘d prefer a 24-70f4 lens you could as well get a Z6 kit right now at around the same price or cheaper than getting the Z5 and 24-70 separately.

Interestingly, even the Z6+24-70f4 kit is not more expensive than the R body alone....


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## Eclipsed (Jul 21, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> And as a cheeky aside. The more than fashionably late 70-200 S works with the extenders. But it looks way to big for the current Z bodies... The lens and body departments in Nikon and Canon seem to be really out of step with each other in some places. Like the range of 1.8 S lenses just feel perfect on the Z. The RF 70-200 is perfect on the R, but then the f/1.2 lenses are just massively unbalanced looking and dying for a bigger body behind them.



The Canon RF70-200 compared to the horse's leg Nikon 70-200 is the best example of why I switched to Canon last year after decades, and as a happy Z6 owner. Also the lightweight 400 f2.8, 11-24, and other great lenses for which Nikon had nothing comparable in the offing.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 21, 2020)

Eclipsed said:


> The Canon RF70-200 compared to the horse's leg Nikon 70-200 is the best example of why I switched to Canon last year after decades, and as a happy Z6 owner. Also the lightweight 400 f2.8, 11-24, and other great lenses for which Nikon had nothing comparable in the offing.



I am keeping my feet in both camps. Canon don't have a super light 500mm f/5.6 prime and Nikon don't have a lovely collection of tilt shifts nor that little fat 70-200


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## Eclipsed (Jul 21, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> At introductory prices for both cameras, for $100 more, the canon has a better screen, that articulates. I would miss that. But with the added IBIS, if I had to purchase based on body alone, I would go for the Nikon. Of course there are more differences, but for me the IBIS is a major feature can't live without.



I actually preferred the Nikon tilt to the Canon swing and twist, at least initially after my Nikon to Canon transition last year. It's far faster for low ground shots in horizontal mode, as one does with fast kid shots. One simple motion instead of two more complex ones, including a twist that always is in the wrong direction, making it three motions (flip, try wrong, twist right).


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## Baron_Karza (Jul 21, 2020)

Eclipsed said:


> I actually preferred the Nikon tilt to the Canon swing and twist, at least initially after my Nikon to Canon transition last year. It's far faster for low ground shots in horizontal mode, as one does with fast kid shots. One simple motion instead of two more complex ones, including a twist that always is in the wrong direction, making it three motions (flip, try wrong, twist right).



Both types have their advantages. I'm trying to patent a design that let's a user do it both ways with one screen.


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## gruhl28 (Jul 21, 2020)

Sounds like it has some important things that the RP does not have (IBIS, probably a sensor with better dynamic range, dual card slots!), and if I'm not mistaken the RP debuted for this same price, so I don't understand why people are saying this is over-priced.


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## AlanF (Jul 21, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> I am keeping my feet in both camps. Canon don't have a super light 500mm f/5.6 prime and Nikon don't have a lovely collection of tilt shifts nor that little fat 70-200


Or a 100-400mm II.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 21, 2020)

AlanF said:


> Or a 100-400mm II.


The point was more that I am not gonna be 'loyal' to a system and will just use both. The 50mm for my needs and a dedicated camera was less money than the RF 50mm. But I am not going to get that little fat 70-200 anywhere else that I can take on holiday as the everything lens.


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## Boyer U. Klum-Cey (Jul 21, 2020)

With the fall of Mt Olympus in recent memory, my guess is that "Nikon is *******", eh?


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## scyrene (Jul 21, 2020)

Something I noticed on DPR: the press release says "the new teleconverters allow Nikon Z series cameras to retain functionality on all focus points up to f/11" - whereas the new Canon bodies retain AF with the new TCs down to f/22. Unless I'm missing something, that's a fairly big difference (for a small number of people).


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 21, 2020)

Boyer U. Klum-Cey said:


> With the fall of Mt Olympus in recent memory, my guess is that "Nikon is *******", eh?



If Nikon weren't about then Canon would have zero competition and we would be working away on 5DIV with one AF point.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 21, 2020)

scyrene said:


> Something I noticed on DPR: the press release says "the new teleconverters allow Nikon Z series cameras to retain functionality on all focus points up to f/11" - whereas the new Canon bodies retain AF with the new TCs down to f/22. Unless I'm missing something, that's a fairly big difference (for a small number of people).



I think it is safe to say that is based on current cameras. The Canon TC's are rated for what looks to be the best AF out there on the R5 and R6.


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## AlanF (Jul 21, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> The point was more that I am not gonna be 'loyal' to a system and will just use both. The 50mm for my needs and a dedicated camera was less money than the RF 50mm. But I am not going to get that little fat 70-200 anywhere else that I can take on holiday as the everything lens.


I do use both: 100-400mm II and other zooms on my Canon bodies and the 500PF on my Nikon.


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## AlanF (Jul 21, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> I think it is safe to say that is based on current cameras. The Canon TC's are rated for what looks to be the best AF out there on the R5 and R6.


There are not detailed reports on those TCs to make those judgements. The Sony TCs are exceptionally good and better than Canon's EF ones according to those who have used both. The EF 1.4xTCIII is very good but the 2.0xTCIII takes quite a hit on IQ. I hope Canon has new formulas for the RF extenders - they are expensive enough. Nikon's 2xTC is garbage, but they have also brought out new ones today for the Z series.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 21, 2020)

AlanF said:


> There are not detailed reports on those TCs to make those judgements. The Sony TCs are exceptionally good and better than Canon's EF ones according to those who have used both. The EF 1.4xTCIII is very good but the 2.0xTCIII takes quite a hit on IQ. I hope Canon has new formulas for the RF extenders - they are expensive enough. Nikon's 2xTC is garbage, but they have also brought out new ones today for the Z series.


https://www.nikon.com/news/2020/0721_lens_03.htm sadly the sample pictures are tiny, at least what I can find.


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## vangelismm (Jul 21, 2020)

It is the best FF for the money.
RP is expensive near it.


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## KT (Jul 21, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> It is currently more than I paid for for my new Z6 (£1,399.99). And if we compare the the Z5 is £1719 with the 24-50 and the RP is £1359 with the 24-105 IS 7.1 edition. So going into a camera shop to buy my first camera: Canon is cheeper, has a longer zoom, both have IS(I won't care what kind of IS), and both are SD(and I won't care that one has 2 slots).
> 
> From a pro point of view it could make a good second camera like the Z6 does, but the Z6 is still there.


When did Canon introduce IS to the RP? That's the first time I hear of it.


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## Baron_Karza (Jul 21, 2020)

KT said:


> When did Canon introduce IS to the RP? That's the first time I hear of it.



He didn't say IBIS, but just IS and that he didn't care what type.


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## AEWest (Jul 21, 2020)

melgross said:


> Looks like a nice camera for the money. Canon will have to update the RP.


I think they should upgrade R instead with IBIS and joystick


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## scyrene (Jul 21, 2020)

KT said:


> When did Canon introduce IS to the RP? That's the first time I hear of it.



I think the lens they were referring to has IS?


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## Baron_Karza (Jul 21, 2020)

AEWest said:


> I think they should upgrade R instead with IBIS and joystick



that sounds like a good idea.

For me, don't really care about anything more than 1080. 
1080 looks freaking fantastic with very good lenses.
Peter MicKinnon's video had a comment where a person wrote that his R5 video looked AMAZING and then he realized it was a clip from the GoPro! LOL!


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## Baron_Karza (Jul 21, 2020)

scyrene said:


> I think the lens they were referring to has IS?



He was referring to the digital IS in the camera body.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 21, 2020)

KT said:


> When did Canon introduce IS to the RP? That's the first time I hear of it.



I referred to the two kits between the Nikon Z5 with the 24-50 and the Canon RP with the 24-105 7.1. In both cases you get a stabilised setup and a consumer there isn't really going to care how the stabilisation is achieved.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 21, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> He was referring to the digital IS in the camera body.


Digital IS? Like just cropping the image in iMovie to smooth it out?


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## KT (Jul 21, 2020)

AEWest said:


> I think they should upgrade R instead with IBIS and joystick


If they did that, why would anyone buy the R6 then, The whole idea of offering the R6 at the same price point that was once occupied by the original R is that the R model will drop a notch or two to fill the gap between the RP and R6


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## Baron_Karza (Jul 21, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> Digital IS? Like just cropping the image in iMovie to smooth it out?


thanks for the clarification


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## AEWest (Jul 21, 2020)

KT said:


> If they did that, why would anyone buy the R6 then, The whole idea of offering the R6 at the same price point that was once occupied by the original R is that the R model will drop a notch or two to fill the gap between the RP and R6


Keep cropped video and slow fps on R to differentiate. More of a landscape and portrait camera than video/sports that R6 is.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 21, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> thanks for the clarification



I wasn't clarifying, I have no idea what digital IBIS would involve. I can't imagine anything that would work on photos digitally


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## Baron_Karza (Jul 21, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> I wasn't clarifying, I have no idea what digital IBIS would involve. I can't imagine anything that would work on photos digitally



What you wrote about "IS" in your original post, clarified for me that you were talking about IS in the Lens, not the IS in the body. Thanks again.

I didn't write "digital IBIS". I wrote about the "Digital IS" feature in the camera body (sometimes referred to as "electronic stabilization"). There is a menu option to turn it on or off. And yes, it is similar to smoothing out in iMovie.


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## [email protected] (Jul 22, 2020)

Chaitanya said:


> Canon was mocked for recycling 18MP sensor but no one seems to pay attention to recycling of 24MP sensor.



In fairness, Canon started getting mocked when...
a) It had been doing the recycling for >4 years, and
b) It claimed with each new camera an "all-new sensor," when just the microlenses (or similar plumbing) were tweaked


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## [email protected] (Jul 22, 2020)

AlanF said:


> There are not detailed reports on those TCs to make those judgements. The Sony TCs are exceptionally good and better than Canon's EF ones according to those who have used both. The EF 1.4xTCIII is very good but the 2.0xTCIII takes quite a hit on IQ. I hope Canon has new formulas for the RF extenders - they are expensive enough. Nikon's 2xTC is garbage, but they have also brought out new ones today for the Z series.



I found the Sony 1.4x TC to be comparable to the Canon version III, which is to say excellent. Both were noticeably better than the Sigma TC. But on the 2x versions, the Sony was slightly worse than the Canon, and both degraded quality noticeably. When shooting Canon, I'd occasionally (when reach limited) use the 2x. I learned not to use the Sony one at all, as image quality would be best with the 1.4x and cropping. 

Of course, that's just my copies of them.


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## Quarkcharmed (Jul 22, 2020)

tomri said:


> Well, yes, but with the important difference that Nikon started using on-sensor ADCs many years before Canon. So even if the Z5 reuses the sensor from the D750 as it is being rumored, that sensor will outperform the R, RP, 6dii, and 5div in terms of low iso DR by a significant margin.



5DIV - by 0.6 stops. It's noticeable but not very significant. RP and 6DII will lag way behind, yes, but they are in different category, they shouldn't be put alongside the 5DIV and R. 

And if you compare it to the R6 which has the same sensor as 1DXIII, the difference will be barely noticeable.


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## melgross (Jul 22, 2020)

AEWest said:


> I think they should upgrade R instead with IBIS and joystick


I suspect both will stay the same for now, and will be replaced late next year.


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## AlanF (Jul 22, 2020)

[email protected] said:


> I found the Sony 1.4x TC to be comparable to the Canon version III, which is to say excellent. Both were noticeably better than the Sigma TC. But on the 2x versions, the Sony was slightly worse than the Canon, and both degraded quality noticeably. When shooting Canon, I'd occasionally (when reach limited) use the 2x. I learned not to use the Sony one at all, as image quality would be best with the 1.4x and cropping.
> 
> Of course, that's just my copies of them.


The bird shooters regularly use the 2xTC on the 200-600mm, and it is very sharp at 1200mm. Were you using the latest 2xTC and if so on which lens as the lens used can be important? There is copy variation with TCs that I have seen.


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## noncho (Jul 22, 2020)

Z5 looks like what I wanted as cheaper R6, except for the 4.5fps.
24Mp with IBIS, 2 SD cards, weather sealing and usb charging for 1.4k $
P.S. Not everyone do video...


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 22, 2020)

noncho said:


> Z5 looks like what I wanted as cheaper R6, except for the 4.5fps.
> 24Mp with IBIS, 2 SD cards, weather sealing and usb charging for 1.4k $
> P.S. Not everyone do video...



So far the good thing about the Z's is they all feel the same. You are paying more for better sensor.


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## Keith_Reeder (Jul 22, 2020)

melgross said:


> Looks like a nice camera for the money. Canon will have to update the RP.


No it won't - the RP didn't suddenly get worse for the release of the Z5, and the imagined pool of photographers who aren't in either camp, and are looking to buy in with an FF camera, is vanishingly small - if it exists at all.


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## Keith_Reeder (Jul 22, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> You are paying more for better sensor.


"Better"? Are we _still_ doing this?


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 22, 2020)

Keith_Reeder said:


> "Better"? Are we _still_ doing this?



You'll need to define what _this_ is. I am not going to guess as you haven't pulled in any context.


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## SteveC (Jul 22, 2020)

Keith_Reeder said:


> No it won't - the RP didn't suddenly get worse for the release of the Z5, and the imagined pool of photographers who aren't in either camp, and are looking to buy in with an FF camera, is vanishingly small - if it exists at all.



I'll go with "vanishingly small" rather than nonexistent, since I happen to be in that camp. I just yesterday ordered an RP+24-105 refurb, and if it arrives before my R5 preorder, it will be my first full frame ever. I didn't even THINK of switching to Nikon or some other brand for this.

(On Second Thought--by "not in either camp" you may have meant not owning ANY equipment from either company at all, in which case, you might be right about non-existent.)


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## Keith_Reeder (Jul 22, 2020)

SteveC said:


> (On Second Thought--by "not in either camp" you may have meant not owning ANY equipment from either company at all, in which case, you might be right about non-existent.)


There ya go.


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## NowHearThis (Jul 22, 2020)

Chaitanya said:


> Canon was mocked for recycling 18MP sensor but no one seems to pay attention to recycling of 24MP sensor.


Well, the 24MP sensor is actually really good.


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## NowHearThis (Jul 22, 2020)

I know people are clamoring for Nikon to release more lenses and I'm sure those will come. Nikon needed a this as a stop-gap to prevent (or minimize) people buying the older Sony A7 models then sticking with Sony later when they upgrade. Canon did the same thing with the RP. Nikon just offered a really nice stills camera that will suit the vast majority of buyers interested in a camera at this price point.


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## Joules (Jul 22, 2020)

Soooo... *******, right?


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## SteveC (Jul 22, 2020)

Joules said:


> Soooo... *******, right?



Some peoples' wallets. Mine for instance (but not by this particular instrument).


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## flip314 (Jul 22, 2020)

The new Nikon TCs work with their Z 70-200 f2.8 lens, while Canon RF TCs bizarrely only even work with the 100-500mm at >300mm...

I wonder what design decision Canon made that limited the TCs so much, and why they decided the tradeoff was worth it. Everything else about the RF system seems to Just Work.


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## Chavim (Jul 22, 2020)

This Nikon is a nice little camera. It has one improvement over the RP that I find relevant for my needs: it has a 1/8000 shutter while the RP has 1/4000.

For those of you looking for more info on the RP. I've had it since launch and it's a great LITTLE camera that fits my needs.

I was looking for a small camera as I go on multi-day mountain bike trips. Before the RP, I had the 5D II for several years.... So I know what a "pro" camera is. The problem with these "pro" cameras, for me, is that they are so freaking big and heavy. I've biked across a few countries, on off-road bike trails, lugging my 5DII and every single time I pulled it out of my CamelBak I thought: man, I love these pictures, and man, this camera is heavy.

The RP fits so much nicer in my CamelBak, and I've been taking it on many more bike rides because of that. Ive taken it on vacations with my wife and the conversation of "who is going to carry the camera" is not even an issue anymore.

I can see how this Nikon would fulfill the same needs and I think it's great there are other smaller full-frame cameras coming out.

Although I dabble in the video world, I'm not a "pro" and the lack of video features don't really bother me. I'm actually not a pro in anything, really, I consider myself more of an artist than a pro.

My dad has an XT3 and although it's a great camera, it's not full-frame. I do see a difference in approach between aps-c and full-frame and my approach is definitely more full-frame.

Ok, this is getting pretty long and only a total of 5 people will read this. If you are thinking about buying this Nikon or the RP, go ahead, don't think it's a stupid camera because of the stupid reviews.

If you have questions about the RP, let me know, I can probably answer some of your questions.


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## dwarven (Jul 23, 2020)

Dual card slots, full frame sensor, and IBIS in a body that will probably settle around 1200 USD (maybe even less during big sales) seems like pretty good value to me.


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## 1D4 (Jul 23, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> I am keeping my feet in both camps. Canon don't have a super light 500mm f/5.6 prime and Nikon don't have a lovely collection of tilt shifts nor that little fat 70-200



Yeah, I'm really hoping Canon can make a lightweight RF 300mm f4 and 500mm f5.6, like the Nikkor PFs. I don't want to haul around a 300mm f2.8 or a 500mm f4.0, nor do I want to spend that much on lenses. However, I will happily pay $2,000 for a 300mm f4 and $3500 for a 500mm f5.6, if they can get the size down like the Nikkors.


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## Tangent (Jul 23, 2020)

Well... we see Nikon with a compact 24-50 here, so I think that is a _slight_ nudge in favor as seeing the RF 18-45 IS as a compact FF zoom. Paired with the 24-105 f4-f7.1 it would make a decent hiking kit. Collapsible, no thank you, sharp across the frame by f8, yes please.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 23, 2020)

1D4 said:


> Yeah, I'm really hoping Canon can make a lightweight RF 300mm f4 and 500mm f5.6, like the Nikkor PFs. I don't want to haul around a 300mm f2.8 or a 500mm f4.0, nor do I want to spend that much on lenses. However, I will happily pay $2,000 for a 300mm f4 and $3500 for a 500mm f5.6, if they can get the size down like the Nikkors.



The 500mm f/5.6 or even if the price is under £10,000 a small fat 500mm f/4 would be ideal for me. I had the prior 300mm f/4 and it was long and slender and never felt too heavy or wrong in the hands. I think we'll seem more zooms first, Canon seem to be trying lots of new lenses. It'll be interesting to see what comes out next year, though I wish they had some sort of roadmap so we know when is a good time to jump into the system. As it stands RF only has the 100-500mm in the range I care about, but it is at a time I am really wanting to buy a big prime to start off the decade.


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## TominNJ (Jul 23, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> Nikon still makes cameras? Holy cow! Who knew?
> 
> Nudge me when something interesting happens. Imma go stare at my 'backordered' R5 invoice.



surely you can find better use for your time than that. clicking the refresh Icon on your browser hoping the R5 manual will magically appear for example.


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## mariosk1gr (Jul 23, 2020)

Nikon seems to live very difficult times..! From my perspective they don't have the funds to make a good competitive camera just like they did last time with D850. If they don't shake the waters a little bit at least they won't make it for very long time.


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## Bert63 (Jul 23, 2020)

TominNJ said:


> surely you can find better use for your time than that. clicking the refresh Icon on your browser hoping the R5 manual will magically appear for example.




Actually, no. I'm still here.


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## Bert63 (Jul 23, 2020)

Joules said:


> Soooo... *******, right?




Yes. *******. Always *******.


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## melgross (Jul 23, 2020)

Keith_Reeder said:


> No it won't - the RP didn't suddenly get worse for the release of the Z5, and the imagined pool of photographers who aren't in either camp, and are looking to buy in with an FF camera, is vanishingly small - if it exists at all.


It’s not competitive to this.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 24, 2020)

mariosk1gr said:


> Nikon seems to live very difficult times..! From my perspective they don't have the funds to make a good competitive camera just like they did last time with D850. If they don't shake the waters a little bit at least they won't make it for very long time.



They could always drop bodies and build them S lenses for the RF mount


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