# Off Brand: Sony Aggressive in Becoming #2 in the ILC Market & More



## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 11, 2017)

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In an interview with <a href="http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2017/08/10/sony-says-clearly-aps-c-forever">Imaging Resource</a> (and others) Sony executives publicly says they’re after the #2 spot for ILC sales. Canon being the #1 and will likely remain there for the foreseeable future. However, this blogger thinks they need to take a few more risks in the coming years to reverse the perception that there’s no innovation in camera bodies going on at Canon.</p>
<p>While Canon appears to be committed to shareholder profits, Sony is taking a different approach for the moment to gain marketshare.</p>
<blockquote><p>“Please look at our vision, not where our profits come from.” said Mr. Tanaka</p></blockquote>
<p>Sony can afford to do this for the time being, though one day you do need to turn a profit of some kind.</p>
<p>Sony also feels the path to growth is not just by taking marketshare from others, but increasing the size of the overall market, which is obviously a big challenge in the current marketplace.</p>

<blockquote><p>A point made by several of the executives — and underscored by no less than Mr. Hiroshi Sakamoto — was that, as one of the true leaders* in the camera market, Sony has to grow by growing the overall market, not just by poaching market share from other players.</p></blockquote>
<p>Sony also remains committed to APS-C sensor products. While their full frame cameras seem to bring about the most discussion online, their APS-C line of cameras remains important to their overall strategy.</p>
<blockquote><p>Tanaka-san was very emphatic. Paraphrasing slightly, he said “APS-C is an important category for us. We’ll <em>never </em>quit APS-C!”</p></blockquote>
<p>Imaging resource also reports than Sony thinks it can achieve a 50% marketshare in the coming years, which would put them in Canon territory.</p>
<p>We should be hearing more about Sony and how they plan to take over the camera world in the coming weeks from other web sites who had the chance to visit with Sony in Japan.</p>
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## blackcoffee17 (Aug 11, 2017)

It's always harder to gain the first 5% market share than the next 5%. So i believe once Sony has a decent and stable market share and a nearly complete lens selection, they will have more money and gain market share even faster because they can start introducing those niche products like the long lenses.

I don't care about the brand and the only reason i haven't got a Sony A6xxx body is the lack lens selection.
Most of their APS-C lenses are weak(16-50) or expensive (10-18, 16-70).


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## jolyonralph (Aug 11, 2017)

> I don't care about the brand and the only reason i haven't got a Sony A6xxx body is the lack lens selection.

To be fair, it's a enormous selection of lenses compared to EF-M!


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## Sporgon (Aug 11, 2017)

blackcoffee17 said:


> It's always harder to gain the first 5% market share than the next 5%.



? 

Debatable.


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## BillB (Aug 11, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> In an interview with <a href="http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2017/08/10/sony-says-clearly-aps-c-forever">Imaging Resource</a> (and others) Sony executives publicly says they’re after the #2 spot for ILC sales. Canon being the #1 and will likely remain there for the foreseeable future. However, this blogger thinks they need to take a few more risks in the coming years to reverse the perception that there’s no innovation in camera bodies going on at Canon.</p>
> <p>While Canon appears to be committed to shareholder profits, Sony is taking a different approach for the moment to gain marketshare.</p>
> <blockquote><p>“Please look at our vision, not where our profits come from.” said Mr. Tanaka</p></blockquote>
> <p>Sony can afford to do this for the time being, though one day you do need to turn a profit of some kind.</p>
> ...



This line of Sony thinking has from time to time led to Sony's decision to abandon abruptly various product development ventures.


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## Jopa (Aug 11, 2017)

BillB said:


> This line of Sony thinking has from time to time led to Sony's decision to abandon abruptly various product development ventures.



That IS the plan. To become #2, and maybe even #1 and then ABANDON! Imagine how cool will that be.


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## adventureous (Aug 11, 2017)

Just buy Nikon.


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## Woody (Aug 12, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> We should be hearing more about Sony and how they plan to take over the camera world in the coming weeks from other web sites who had the chance to visit with Sony in Japan.



Takes a lot of perseverance. Once Nikon (and Canon) enter the MILC arena in 2018, we may see the return of the Canikon dominance:

"At current trends, a solid Nikon mirrorless system introduced by Photokina 2018 should turn market share back towards Nikon some. But not as much as it would have if they had been as quick as Canon to address mirrorless seriously."
- http://www.dslrbodies.com/newsviews/nikons-first-quarter-cipas.html


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## IglooEater (Aug 12, 2017)

adventureous said:


> Just buy Nikon.



In terms of a speed-of-new-technology-integration/platform-stability ratio, Nikon does seem a somewhat of a happy medium between Canon and Sony..


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## Woody (Aug 12, 2017)

jolyonralph said:


> To be fair, it's a enormous selection of lenses compared to EF-M!



Looked at Sony website. For dedicated APS-C E-mount stuff, this is what they offer:

Slow zoom:
Ultrawide: 10-18 f/4 OSS
Standard: 16-50 f/3.5-5.6 OSS, 16-70 f/4 OSS, 18-55 f/3.5-5.6 OSS
Telephoto: 55-210 f/4.5-6.3 OSS
Ultrazoom: 18-105 f/4 OSS, 18-110 f/4 OSS, 18-200 f/3.5-6.3 OSS

Fast Primes:
16 f/2.8, 20 f/2.8, 24 f/1.8, 28 f/2, 35 f/1.8 OSS, 50 f/1.8 OSS

Macro:
30 f/3.5 macro

Apart from prime lenses, Canon has most of the bases covered. Both Sony and Canon are lacking fast f/2.8 APS-C MILC zoom lenses.

Admittedly, I salivate when I see the Sony 35 f/1.8 OSS and Nikon DX 35 f/1.8 lenses. For some bizarre reason, Canon refuses to release a dedicated fast standard prime lens (i.e. 35 mm) for APS-C shooters.


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## Talys (Aug 12, 2017)

Jopa said:


> BillB said:
> 
> 
> > This line of Sony thinking has from time to time led to Sony's decision to abandon abruptly various product development ventures.
> ...



VAIO notebooks =X

I've purchased... FOUR that were > $1,500.


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## Jopa (Aug 12, 2017)

Talys said:


> Jopa said:
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> > BillB said:
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Yep yep I feel your pain - I have three VAIO Z 3rd gen.: two dead, one is still kicking!


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## jeffa4444 (Aug 15, 2017)

Forbes in May 2017 ranking the worlds top 2000 companies listed Canon and Sony as follows:- 

Canon position 266 - Market Cap. $ 41.6bn 

Sony position 449 - Market Cap. $ 40.4bn 

Sony has had a number of turbulent years with failures in TVs, domestic electrical appliances & consumer goods and an up & down set of results from PlayStation. Sony Studios has roller coaster years depending on the box office hits or otherwise and the only real shinning star of late has been the sensor business. Canon have been more resilient even though point & shoot cameras have tumbled and DSLRs stagnated in real term growth.


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## Talys (Aug 16, 2017)

mppix said:


> Jopa said:
> 
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> > Talys said:
> ...



Gah, me too. 

To be honest, I thought the 3rd Generation Sony Z was not an ideal notebook. I bought it on day one, and I loved it -- carbon fiber body, all that -- I thought it was beautiful and functional, great ports, layout, weight, and on and on, at the end of the day, but it just felt flimsy during use, and had too much flex in the body. The whole thing was too toy-ish for work. 

Frankly, _a little like the a7ii_. The beautiful flip-down screen has no raised bezel, gorgeous color and rivals a Samsung S8's OLED screen... I want one like that on my Canon! But too bad it feels like I could snap it off with one wrong move. Nice looking body from 10 ft away... why is there no material strength? Why does it feel like if I put too much pressure on it, I'll crush the camera? In my mind, notebooks, like cameras, if they're designed for professionals, need to be mechanically engineered to feel like they aren't delicate. I mean, they don't have to survive being tossed out of a moving vehicle, but they shouldn't feel like you might damage them in "normal" use.

The 2nd Generation Sony Z was a workhorse though. I got so much use out of that thing; even installed Win 10 on it for kicks, but, like everything else, without support, it just isn't usable. My most vivid memories of Sony laptops, however, will forever be reinstalling Windows, and the stupid 20 Sony drivers you had to install in precisely the right sequence just to get the Fn keys to work.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 19, 2017)

Sony is charging very high prices, and even higher for repairs, so if they are not making a big profit now, they will abandon as soon as they see a drop in market share. This has been their pattern for the past 50 years, so only young people who have not seen it happen over and over will be fooled.


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