# Opinion on M Lens being discontinued from 3rd parties



## shadow (Nov 13, 2022)

I am confused about continuing down the M dead end road. I love my M50 so just bought a second M50ii body as a backup, own 22 f/2, and 28 macro and EF-EF-M adapter for some older EF lens I have. The kit lens work fine for my application as well.

Back several weeks ago with the announcements of M6mk2 and M200 ended and M50 in Japan discontinuation, I have started to look around and shop for more Canon EF-M lens just in case they too will disappear. Perhaps some crystal ball might appear, ha.. but the (3) EF-M Sigma's also are price reduced. Several 3rd party lenses are not in stock at all. But I hesitate, since the EF-M are not usable with R system if I ever get into it eventually with APSC. I am not interested in R Full Frame bodies or lens prices at all.

The online sales for 22 f/2 now are $179. and 32 f/1.4 $399. are pretty good, but locally (I am not in USA, huge customs duty for import) are $150. each more each so didn't buy them. I noticed online Sigma EF-M prices reduced also so curious if this is like a "Clearance" and "lets get rid of this stuff" sale or temporary and stock will be replenished? Logically seems like the former, but not a historian or know past events and want opinions. The EF line has been announced partially discontinued, so I feel like I need to buy more or go all in on Sony instead. I haven't seen the 11-22 on sale... yet? I have a limited budget and like the less expensive Sony APSC only lens that I don't need to worry about future proofing IMO, but with the M I need to make a decision, I believe.

The A6000 line (A6400 I just bought, but prefer the M50) has been on the market longer than the M50, and no indication it is going away, and could buy some standard Sony FF primes lens (Bought the E 11mm f/1.8 for $550. and a 18-105mm f/4 for $650. and Sigma E 56mm f/1.4 $500) at lower prices than any current R. From all the comments and reading I have been deluged with nothing positive for the M (R100 is just a rumor, and no lenses announced..) and get the feeling that Canon isn't in a hurry to compete on the low end (No Prime RF-S lenses) , which makes sense as its in the iPhone and smartphone price range and they announcing EOS R6ii are targeting FF and $3500.+ minimum customers. I get it, and feel like stocking up on all/more EF-M lenses might be a stupid idea versus buying instead Sony primes like I want an 85mm. I own a nice Samsung 3 lens smartphone too, and it works great for time lapse and easier for street shots. This is a hobby project, and already in too deep investment wise on both Canon and Sony systems. So what would you do?


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## ReflexVE (Nov 16, 2022)

So my decision was to move to Fujifilm and I have no regrets. They take APS-C seriously and there is no artificial segmentation of features. The lens selection is also excellent.

That said, there is literally no reason to move on from what you have unless you cannot do things you wish to do with it. The system is fairly filled out with most needs covered and if it's meeting your needs why change at all? I still point new users to the M50 as a great entry point to photography and I don't really care if it's a 'dead system' since it still works great and produces great results. Nor do I care about upgrade paths, they require you to replace the body and lenses anyway in most cases so why not consider another system at that point?

You haven't really outlined a need that the current setup is not fulfilling, and you are seeing lots of deals on interesting lenses. In your current situation I'd take advantage of lens deals and re-evaluate in a year to see if it's still meeting your needs. By then Fuji should have rolled out their new cpu/sensor platform to their low end models, something like a X-S20 is a nearly direct drop in replacement for the M50 but with far more advanced features. Sony is also rumored to be refreshing their APS-C lineup soon, and Nikon may do the same. It's also possible Canon goes on a binge with quality APS-C lenses for RF mount.

In short, don't upgrade until it makes sense to do so, then consider all options since you are forced to change your system anyway.


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## koenkooi (Nov 16, 2022)

ReflexVE said:


> So my decision was to move to Fujifilm and I have no regrets. They take APS-C seriously and there is no artificial segmentation of features. The lens selection is also excellent. [..]


At 3x the price of equivalent Canon bodies and lenses, they have segmented it already!


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## ReflexVE (Nov 16, 2022)

koenkooi said:


> At 3x the price of equivalent Canon bodies and lenses, they have segmented it already!


They have lots of affordable first and third party lenses in the same price ranges as Canon's offerings. As for the bodies, I am unclear on what Canon is offering that is priced lower than the X-E4/X-T30 II/X-S10 with similar feature sets. The R10 and R7 are both more expensive than Fuji's similar offerings while offering fewer features.

I'm not trying to make a brand war here, but if someone is looking to grow in the crop sensor space Nikon & Canon are bad places to be as they treat it as the stepping stone to full frame, a path that may or may not be desirable to a shooter.


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## koenkooi (Nov 16, 2022)

ReflexVE said:


> They have lots of affordable first and third party lenses in the same price ranges as Canon's offerings. As for the bodies, I am unclear on what Canon is offering that is priced lower than the X-E4/X-T30 II/X-S10 with similar feature sets. The R10 and R7 are both more expensive than Fuji's similar offerings while offering fewer features.
> 
> I'm not trying to make a brand war here, but if someone is looking to grow in the crop sensor space Nikon & Canon are bad places to be as they treat it as the stepping stone to full frame, a path that may or may not be desirable to a shooter.


I was looking at Fuji to replace my M6II, 11-22, 22 f/2, 32 f/1.4 and the Sigma 56 f/1.4. If I don't want to get fewer megapixels, I'm limited to the XH2 (€2300 vs €900) and XT5. For the 11-22 there's only the Fuji 10-24 (€900 vs €350) to cover those focal lengths. For the 22mm there is the 23mm f/2 (€350 vs €220). For the 32mm there's good news! The Sigma and Viltrox options are €300 vs €500 for the Canon. The 56mm Sigma is the same price 
The XH-2 seems to be quite a bit larger than the M6II, which I don't like, the M6II is already big compared to the original M.

On top of all that, I'm not convinced the AF will be better.


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## ReflexVE (Nov 16, 2022)

koenkooi said:


> I was looking at Fuji to replace my M6II, 11-22, 22 f/2, 32 f/1.4 and the Sigma 56 f/1.4. If I don't want to get fewer megapixels, I'm limited to the XH2 (€2300 vs €900) and XT5. For the 11-22 there's only the Fuji 10-24 (€900 vs €350) to cover those focal lengths. For the 22mm there is the 23mm f/2 (€350 vs €220). For the 32mm there's good news! The Sigma and Viltrox options are €300 vs €500 for the Canon. The 56mm Sigma is the same price
> The XH-2 seems to be quite a bit larger than the M6II, which I don't like, the M6II is already big compared to the original M.
> 
> On top of all that, I'm not convinced the AF will be better.


I'm sorry it does not work for your personal scenario. If you do decide to move on you probably should wait for the next generation of the lower end bodies such as the upcoming X-S20 which will have the top end CPU and sensor in a similar sized package. That said, as I mentioned before I'm not trying to convince you to change, I am responding to the original poster who is in a position where they are considering all the options, ranging from Canon to Sony, and I pointed out that Fujifilm is probably the most compelling option for a complete system in the APS-C space. That does not, of course, mean they are the only option, or even the best in all scenarios. However for someone coming from the M mount they cover everything the M mount did very well, with more advanced bodies and lenses available should someone wish to go to the next level.

If it does not work for you, personally, well that's okay! Use what does work for you. Like you I was pretty upset Canon abandoned us M mount users. I looked at the whole market and felt Fuji had a better track record and more complete system for those of us who wanted small size, reasonable pricing and a crop sensor. But for others they may not be ideal. And that's okay too, there are six manufacturers to choose from, and who knows, maybe Canon will actually build an RF-S lineup that makes sense by the time the initial poster (or you) are looking to change.

BTW, I can respond to some of your specific callouts above if you want to, I chose not to because again, I'm not trying to get into some brand war here, if it's just that you aren't interested that's okay! If you are looking to solve the problems to enable a move, I'm happy to help however.


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## shadow (Nov 17, 2022)

ReflexVE said:


> In short, don't upgrade until it makes sense to do so, then consider all options since you are forced to change your system anyway.


Thank you kindly for giving me your input! Yes, I am having difficulty I guess in future proofing or future service too. Unfortunately, the country I live has zero Fuji service, sales or support. Import duty and handling charges are b.s. too for import and export.

I bought the 2nd M50 and love the system, I am going to buy a new old stock EF 85mm f/1.8 for $300. tomorrow so if I get into RF at least I can use it. I saw the Sigma MC-11 EF to E adapter on sale so maybe I might buy it also. Canon menu's and touch screen are great, I am surprised Sony's haven't worked on them. I at least have zebras on the A6400 which I like.

I found used a bunch of filters locally and a charger, all of which is not available new locally. Glad I discovered a new source. Again appreciate your idea. Thank you!


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## koenkooi (Nov 17, 2022)

ReflexVE said:


> I'm sorry it does not work for your personal scenario. If you do decide to move on you probably should wait for the next generation of the lower end bodies such as the upcoming X-S20 which will have the top end CPU and sensor in a similar sized package. That said, as I mentioned before I'm not trying to convince you to change, I am responding to the original poster who is in a position where they are considering all the options, ranging from Canon to Sony, and I pointed out that Fujifilm is probably the most compelling option for a complete system in the APS-C space. That does not, of course, mean they are the only option, or even the best in all scenarios. However for someone coming from the M mount they cover everything the M mount did very well, with more advanced bodies and lenses available should someone wish to go to the next level.
> 
> If it does not work for you, personally, well that's okay! Use what does work for you. Like you I was pretty upset Canon abandoned us M mount users. I looked at the whole market and felt Fuji had a better track record and more complete system for those of us who wanted small size, reasonable pricing and a crop sensor. But for others they may not be ideal. And that's okay too, there are six manufacturers to choose from, and who knows, maybe Canon will actually build an RF-S lineup that makes sense by the time the initial poster (or you) are looking to change.
> 
> BTW, I can respond to some of your specific callouts above if you want to, I chose not to because again, I'm not trying to get into some brand war here, if it's just that you aren't interested that's okay! If you are looking to solve the problems to enable a move, I'm happy to help however.


The self imposed limits I set on selecting a replacement for my M system narrow the choices down to Fuji, for the megapixels or Olympus OM system for its macro selection. I really hope there will be a tiny, EVF-less RF body, that would mean I only need to find an 11-22 equivalent for it.

Also, when looking at new bodies I keep thinking "I could get a used RF50L for that money", so my heart isn't really in it. My work related travelling has dropped off significantly the past years, and my small kids require travelling with a huge support infrastructure anyway


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## shadow (Nov 17, 2022)

koenkooi said:


> I really hope there will be a tiny, EVF-less RF body, that would mean I only need to find an 11-22 equivalent for it


Have you ruled out the G7X or Sony RX compacts? I have always liked the Powershot series for convenience. Especially if you don't want anything but a battery and charger in your suitcase or carry-on.


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## koenkooi (Nov 17, 2022)

shadow said:


> Have you ruled out the G7X or Sony RX compacts? I have always liked the Powershot series for convenience. Especially if you don't want anything but a battery and charger in your suitcase or carry-on.


The Sony RX look quite nice, but aren't ILCs. I really like being able to use the EF-S60mm or EF-M28mm for 1:1 macro. And I've been on camera forums long enough to have developed a loathing for Sony users, always needing to drop into other vendor threads to spew their vitriol and going on and on about DR. That hasn't happened since the R5 came out, so maybe the asshole factor has dropped enough. Sony users I encounter in real life do seem nice 

But as you point out, maybe I shouldn't think of it as "replacement for M6II and everything it can do" but as "a new, small, capable camera" instead. Looking into all the options again should keep me occupied till the next Canon announcement


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## ReflexVE (Nov 17, 2022)

shadow said:


> Thank you kindly for giving me your input! Yes, I am having difficulty I guess in future proofing or future service too. Unfortunately, the country I live has zero Fuji service, sales or support. Import duty and handling charges are b.s. too for import and export.
> 
> I bought the 2nd M50 and love the system, I am going to buy a new old stock EF 85mm f/1.8 for $300. tomorrow so if I get into RF at least I can use it. I saw the Sigma MC-11 EF to E adapter on sale so maybe I might buy it also. Canon menu's and touch screen are great, I am surprised Sony's haven't worked on them. I at least have zebras on the A6400 which I like.
> 
> I found used a bunch of filters locally and a charger, all of which is not available new locally. Glad I discovered a new source. Again appreciate your idea. Thank you!


Availability, service and support are important! Honestly it sounds like either RF-S or Sony would be the future path given availability there (maybe Nikon if they expand their APS-C line by then?). Regardless, it's not a decision you need to make anytime soon and who knows what the options will be by then. I honestly wouldn't think all that much about future proofing, at the rate the overall market is contracting I don't think future proofing is really possible.


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## shadow (Nov 18, 2022)

koenkooi said:


> The Sony RX look quite nice, but aren't ILCs. I really like being able to use the EF-S60mm or EF-M28mm for 1:1 macro. And I've been on camera forums long enough to have developed a loathing for Sony users, always needing to drop into other vendor threads to spew their vitriol and going on and on about DR. That hasn't happened since the R5 came out, so maybe the asshole factor has dropped enough. Sony users I encounter in real life do seem nice
> 
> But as you point out, maybe I shouldn't think of it as "replacement for M6II and everything it can do" but as "a new, small, capable camera" instead. Looking into all the options again should keep me occupied till the next Canon announcement


I might be repeating my comment I am not sure, but... I read a quote once that was:
Q. So what is the best camera?
A. The one that you have with you.

Hence I have had Canon pocket cameras since the first digital Elph released in 2000. It was great, took some awesome 2mp sunset shots, I might post some time. Then carried other SX models before Android and iPhone. You have young children to watch so taking videos is important! Years ago as a young parent I used several camcorders for mine and have quite a few hours I converted and stored on DVD. My father recorded to 8mm film, sadly it all disappeared so never converted, only slides that were digitized. At least now if you have a phone in your pocket, or small camera like the $1200 RX you can capture on the spot those nice memorable events. So small and pocketable sure to me is more valuable that the best highest quality device, imho. Enjoy your kids, they grow up too fast!


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## shadow (Nov 18, 2022)

ReflexVE said:


> Availability, service and support are important! Honestly it sounds like either RF-S or Sony would be the future path given availability there (maybe Nikon if they expand their APS-C line by then?). Regardless, it's not a decision you need to make anytime soon and who knows what the options will be by then. I honestly wouldn't think all that much about future proofing, at the rate the overall market is contracting I don't think future proofing is really possible.



Ok, thanks I guess I am kinda of anxious as I feel the M disappearing. I have a friend who has been shooting for 50 years and has Leica's and Fuji's here. I bumped into him coincidentally today he spoke about not being able to service them. I bought a used EF 85mm f/1.8 today for $300. so except for a couple M lens I nearly set for the time being. There were none at all in stock new here at all, and been looking for one for several months. The one dealer had a Zeiss 85 but it sold instantly and I didn't want to spend the money anyway.

The Nikon 30 has not arrived here yet, and saw a few Sony FX-30's that came and sold quickly.


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## koenkooi (Nov 18, 2022)

shadow said:


> I might be repeating my comment I am not sure, but... I read a quote once that was:
> Q. So what is the best camera?
> A. The one that you have with you.
> 
> Hence I have had Canon pocket cameras since the first digital Elph released in 2000. It was great, took some awesome 2mp sunset shots, I might post some time. Then carried other SX models before Android and iPhone. You have young children to watch so taking videos is important! Years ago as a young parent I used several camcorders for mine and have quite a few hours I converted and stored on DVD. My father recorded to 8mm film, sadly it all disappeared so never converted, only slides that were digitized. At least now if you have a phone in your pocket, or small camera like the $1200 RX you can capture on the spot those nice memorable events. So small and pocketable sure to me is more valuable that the best highest quality device, imho. Enjoy your kids, they grow up too fast!


Yes, I use my phone as the camera I have always with me, and since it can nice pictures and great video, my requirements for the smaller-than-r5 camera need to beat my phone


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 18, 2022)

My concern with 3rd parties is that some will go away. Experts say we are heading into a recession or worse. People have cut back on big ticket purchase items which may be why you see some items discounted. If inventory is too high, they reduce the price temporarily. Its common this time of year to attempt to sell out inventory since many countries tax businesses on inventory in stock on December 31. Canon also has sales to reduce inventory by December 31.


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## shadow (Nov 18, 2022)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> My concern with 3rd parties is that some will go away. Experts say we are heading into a recession or worse. People have cut back on big ticket purchase items which may be why you see some items discounted. If inventory is too high, they reduce the price temporarily. Its common this time of year to attempt to sell out inventory since many countries tax businesses on inventory in stock on December 31. Canon also has sales to reduce inventory by December 31.


True, I believe these Canon M lenses started discounting in September too. Sigma EF-M I don't recall how many weeks ago. I wonder if since some 3rd party manual focus models are really low priced, mfg to be inexpensive in China so maybe not ?


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## stevelee (Dec 14, 2022)

My travel cameras have been the s90, s120, G7X II, and now the G5X II. I have been especially well pleased with the current one. I don’t splurge on my phone to get a better camera, and I don’t like big phones anyway, so I use the iPhone SE model from 2020. The camera is good enough for when it is all I have to shoot with. I shoot Raw with the compact cameras, so I like the control I have in the camera and in post. I looked at the comparable Sony when I got the G5X II, and they had changed the lens to be longer and slower, the opposite of what I need when traveling. I feel more limited by the 24mm wide end than by the 120mm long end. Cramped interiors and wide scenic vistas are more characteristic of what I shoot when traveling rather than tracking down wildlife from a distance.

Besides the Sony, I also looked at the M50, but decided to stick with something pocketable for traveling.

For my 6D2 system I bought a refurbed 85mm f/1.8, and have been very pleasantly surprised at its quality. Most of the time I don’t want backgrounds that are too unnaturally blurry, so I don’t need f/1.2.


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## Rockskipper (Dec 23, 2022)

I haven't read all the posts here, so forgive me if this isn't applicable, but as for M-lenses, I have an adaptor for my M5 camera from Canon that allows me to use EF lenses. Some are kind of big, but they work fine.


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## shadow (Dec 29, 2022)

I have the EF to M adapter, but now regretting buying it and a second M50 as I can only use the M50 on a tripod in the home studio video work or outside video only with IS lenses I don't want to buy more of EF, and the R 3rd party/no cheap lens thing. My latest 85mm non IS video footage was horrible. The Sony 18-105 I just bought has OSS, and a world of difference at 135 (APSC 35mm equivalent on my A6400, so little shake I never realized stabilization in video was so important. Photos are fine, nice EF 85mm for that though.


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## shadow (Dec 29, 2022)

stevelee said:


> Besides the Sony, I also looked at the M50, but decided to stick with something pocketable for traveling.


Yes, I realized that my $65 Elph gets used more than anything else when out and about. I wish I had the G7x or G5x instead of the M50.


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