# Canon Inc. full year 2018 financial results, and thoughts on the industry and future goals



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 30, 2019)

> Canon has released their final financial results for 2018. Sales were down year over year, but Canon managed to increase profits while dealing with declining sales in 2018.
> *Canon’s thoughts on the imaging industry in 2018:*
> The 2018 interchangeable-lens camera market was impacted by restrained purchasing of advanced amateur models, prior to the launch of new full-frame mirrorless cameras by each manufacturer, and the further contraction of the DSLR market, mainly due to lower sales of entry-class models. As a result, the overall interchangeable-lens camera market continued to shrink. Even under these conditions, sales of mirrorless cameras—with their lightweight, compact body designs—continued to grow. This reflects improvements in mirrorless camera performance in such areas as autofocus, which is now comparable to that of DSLRs.
> 
> Against this backdrop, we are framing this year as one in which we take measure that...



Continue reading...


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## bichex (Jan 30, 2019)

Tiempos difíciles para la industria de las cámaras. Canon parece descuidar sus clientes reflejos, espero una 7d III que al parecer no llegará. Cambio al sistema de canon R puede ser el mismo para nosotros como cambiar a otro sistema de otra marca. Decisión difícil.


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## docsmith (Jan 30, 2019)

Well, some will be pleased by this:

Strengthen position in mirrorless market segment
Expand lineup of products with EOS R system at its core
Accelerate development of new products 

Increased profitability by 
Raise proportion of full frame models


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## takesome1 (Jan 30, 2019)

Additionally, we will also promote change in the distribution of internal resources, *from development* to production as well as sales & marketing. 

 Sales double speak, less R&D money?


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## knight427 (Jan 30, 2019)

takesome1 said:


> Additionally, we will also promote change in the distribution of internal resources, *from development* to production as well as sales & marketing.
> 
> Sales double speak, less R&D money?



You are correct, but you have to cut them a little slack. They were developing the RF mount, R body and RF lenses while continuing with some serious EF lenses, a few more EF bodies and a splash of EF-M. Every manufacturer goes through these cycles of high demand development, followed by high demand production and VAVE. A subset of product design engineers are told to think of ways to increase margin, but given the forward guidance of a crashing camera market, it is probably also going mean a subset of design engineers will be looking or jobs soon.

It also looks like Canon is going to go after GoPro with action cameras for the youngsters.


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## Diltiazem (Jan 30, 2019)

So, it looks like Canon's ILC market share last year remained unchanged at 49% and Canon expects the same for 2019.


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## Woody (Jan 30, 2019)

From Canon's report:

"For interchangeable-lens cameras, the market in 2018 was down 10% to 10.3 million units. Our sales were down 9% to 5.04 million units..."

I guess the above refers to units sold, not shipped. In any case, Canon's market share for ILC in 2018 is 5.04/10.3 = 48.9%. Another damn impressive statistic.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jan 30, 2019)

takesome1 said:


> Additionally, we will also promote change in the distribution of internal resources, *from development* to production as well as sales & marketing.
> 
> Sales double speak, less R&D money?


Thats how I read it. I expected that as well, lower sales means less money spent on R&D. Canon is moving to industrial products, they will get the R&D $


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## Expat Photographer (Jan 31, 2019)

takesome1 said:


> Additionally, we will also promote change in the distribution of internal resources, *from development* to production as well as sales & marketing.
> 
> Sales double speak, less R&D money?




Pretty much. Photographers, while generally good people, are honestly really bad as a group when it comes to following the business news.

Sony's Alpha line, which so many people rightfully cheer, wasn't paid for by what was at the time Sony's camera division. They couldn't come close to affording it in reality. Sony paid for that development with profits from semiconductors. Sony is now a holding company and the camera division is now a seperate company, which by the way, is predicting to make, literally, no profit this year. That massive R&D investment from outside sources was a one time deal. Many analyst are predicting it will be sold, just as Sony has done in the past with Vaio. The last investor's day very strongly implied this is exactly what the new Sony holding company plans. Sony, literally, didn't have cameras anywhere in the company's future plans as they all but openly stated that gadgets were all going to be abandoned with the possible (probable?) exception of gaming systems. (Hence the editor in chief of Gizmodo's impassioned, and pleading, article not to follow through).

Nikon almost went out of business this past year. That's not hyperbole. The company completely reorganized as its last attempt to stave off filing for bankruptcy. If the D850 did not sell well (not flopped mind you, just had weak sales) Nikon would have filed for bankruptcy. 

Canon has been preforming very well as a company, and smartly diversifying. They have not made the gamble on unaffordable R&D progress.

Make no mistake about it: the reason why Sony and Nikon (particularly Sony) advanced at the pace they have the last few years (the 5D ii is a good timeframe starting point) is because they've been following an unaffordable model. This is not a surprise, this is not a theory, but instead a well detailed fact among analyst and traders for years. Keep in mind Nikon was trading for barely over $10 a share heading into 2016. They either took a gamble (and they took several) or they were looking at going away. 

That is just the math, and it doesn't matter what reviewers do or don't like about a camera say about the company.

Canon isn't behind the times, they're not releasing old technology, they're not 'out of touch' as photography blogs and reviewers might sometimes state. Switch over to financial and business news and you get the actual facts regarding these companies, not made up 'facts' about the companies based on a if a reviewer likes the button lay-out of a camera, the codec video is recorded in, or if a touch bar is 'stupid' or not. 

In fact, Canon's approach, quite steadfast and well paced, is out-lined in great detail every year, as required in both the US and Japanese (among other countries) law. Anyone can read it if they so choose. Photographers are just bad at informing themselves when it comes to business news unfortunately, preferring to just make things up because they're fans or not of a particular product model.

Yeah, Canon's cutting back on R&D, just as they noted in their financial disclosures. They got their FF mirrorless production cycle on track now. Nikon is struggling, but will survive and the smart money is on Sony's new camera company being sold (just as Sony holding said they would do if the company doesn't turn a profit). 

Kai is funny, Fro is sarcastic, and so forth, but they (reviewers in general) demonstrate all the time they don't know what they're talking about when it comes to the companies themselves. None of this is a secret, it fact it's all very well publicized information, photographers just have to be bothered.


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## Sean C (Jan 31, 2019)

The camera AI sounds like a party / auto sports mode.
They've got face detection working. I'd like to see a security camera that evaluates the scene for people and triggers recording based on that as an improvement on the ones that only do motion detection. (trying to think of areas where something they're already doing could give them an edge)


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## ethanz (Jan 31, 2019)

Expat Photographer said:


> Sony's Alpha line, which so many people rightfully cheer, wasn't paid for by what was at the time Sony's camera division. They couldn't come close to affording it in reality. Sony paid for that development with profits from semiconductors. Sony is now a holding company and the camera division is now a seperate company, which by the way, is predicting to make, literally, no profit this year. That massive R&D investment from outside sources was a one time deal. Many analyst are predicting it will be sold, just as Sony has done in the past with Vaio. The last investor's day very strongly implied this is exactly what the new Sony holding company plans. Sony, literally, didn't have cameras anywhere in the company's future plans as they all but openly stated that gadgets were all going to be abandoned with the possible (probable?) exception of gaming systems. (Hence the editor in chief of Gizmodo's impassioned, and pleading, article not to follow through).



Do you have a link to that? It would be interesting to read.


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## DTibor (Jan 31, 2019)

ethanz said:


> Do you have a link to that? It would be interesting to read.


I work in electronics industry and I know that such middle volume high complexity manufacturing is expensive. I have also the same opinion, that Sony camera division must be not or barely profitable.


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## M_S (Jan 31, 2019)

Since the market is shrinking (more companies on the market in FF than ever before), smartphones canibalize the lower/entry/point and shoot market, there are only so much options to counteract: a) Cut costs or b) innovate and try to offer something that smartphones and the other companies don't. Seems to me that Canon is going the route of cutting costs. Debateable move. Where are the cameras, that win the new generation over? Cameras with the ability to post/share/include pic profiles/luts/retouch automatically in camera. Where is an app system like with smartphones? Where are the sensors that are pushing the limit even further in DR and noise level? And where is the fun camera, that you can use your old manual lenses and focus them perfectly every time, even on 1.2 or 1.4? So much stuff they could (or should do) to react on that....


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## PerKr (Jan 31, 2019)

M_S said:


> Since the market is shrinking (more companies on the market in FF than ever before), smartphones canibalize the lower/entry/point and shoot market, there are only so much options to counteract: a) Cut costs or b) innovate and try to offer something that smartphones and the other companies don't. Seems to me that Canon is going the route of cutting costs. Debateable move. Where are the cameras, that win the new generation over? Cameras with the ability to post/share/include pic profiles/luts/retouch automatically in camera. Where is an app system like with smartphones? Where are the sensors that are pushing the limit even further in DR and noise level? And where is the fun camera, that you can use your old manual lenses and focus them perfectly every time, even on 1.2 or 1.4? So much stuff they could (or should do) to react on that....



No matter how innovative cameras get, they will not catch up to smartphones. A smartphone is not just a phone with a camera, it's a small computer that can do most of the things you used to need a computer to do and it also has a very usable camera and fits in your pocket.

Posting/sharing/retouching and so on in camera might seem like a nice idea but as some has pointed out the camera would then need it's own data plan. Instead, this could be done via the app that manufacturers already have and the smartphone could do the posting/sharing/retouching.
App system in camera. Sony did this instead of having features in the camera from factory. 
Sensors pushing limits further isn't really needed to attract people to photography, ISO range is already ridiculous and DR is more than good enough.
The "fun" camera for old manual lenses is a very niche product.

Bottom line is none of these things trump what a smartphone brings. Where the camera shines is in the photographic experience. Everything outside of those moments spent capturing the image is done better by your smartphone/tablet/laptop.


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## M_S (Jan 31, 2019)

PerKr said:


> No matter how innovative cameras get, they will not catch up to smartphones. A smartphone is not just a phone with a camera, it's a small computer that can do most of the things you used to need a computer to do and it also has a very usable camera and fits in your pocket.
> 
> ...
> 
> Bottom line is none of these things trump what a smartphone brings. Where the camera shines is in the photographic experience. Everything outside of those moments spent capturing the image is done better by your smartphone/tablet/laptop.



Could be. But, one can argue that it must not be that way, it could be different. With a different user experience and connectivity, cameras could dip into the smartphone market. Besides the phone aspect and having that device always with you, one thing might be the UI, ease of use and the ability to transfer data into the web could be a thing that, using a better imaging device, might be of interest to some. And thats only the high tec fast side of things. Easy access wifi with fast transfer rates, perhaps even sim card support for using the bandwith of your provider. Make the camera a minicomputer as well, that can so much more than just capturing pics.
Todays smartphone have a powerful computer, run almost half a day with surfing, capturing pics, have lots of ram (in the 6 GB, which are mostly usable for apps and not the oprating system), display on and running. And on the other side you have cameras which run out of buffer after 15 Pics, which translates to under a GB and have battery issues. I see lots of potential here which isn't even touch by todays cameras.


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## Woody (Jan 31, 2019)

M_S said:


> Todays smartphone have a powerful computer, run almost half a day with surfing, capturing pics, have lots of ram (in the 6 GB, which are mostly usable for apps and not the oprating system), display on and running. And on the other side you have cameras which run out of buffer after 15 Pics, which translates to under a GB and have battery issues. I see lots of potential here which isn't even touch by todays cameras.



Which is more attractive: a small, handy smartphone with a powerful processor that can make calls or a large camera with a powerful processor that cannot make calls? Regarding battery issues, I propose you compare the number of photos a tiny DSLR like the EOS 77D can take (sized down to ~ 12 MP like most smartphones) against that from a smartphone.

What I am trying to say is this: apart from image quality, there is no way an ILC can beat a smartphone. The Google Pixel 3 probably runs circles round most fixed lens compact cameras.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 31, 2019)

PerKr said:


> Bottom line is none of these things trump what a smartphone brings. Where the camera shines is in the photographic experience. Everything outside of those moments spent capturing the image is done better by your smartphone/tablet/laptop.


You seem to have forgotten image quality.


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## knight427 (Jan 31, 2019)

Expat Photographer said:


> Pretty much. Photographers, while generally good people, are honestly really bad as a group when it comes to following the business news.
> 
> Sony's Alpha line, which so many people rightfully cheer, wasn't paid for by what was at the time Sony's camera division. They couldn't come close to affording it in reality. Sony paid for that development with profits from semiconductors. Sony is now a holding company and the camera division is now a seperate company, which by the way, is predicting to make, literally, no profit this year. That massive R&D investment from outside sources was a one time deal. Many analyst are predicting it will be sold, just as Sony has done in the past with Vaio. The last investor's day very strongly implied this is exactly what the new Sony holding company plans. Sony, literally, didn't have cameras anywhere in the company's future plans as they all but openly stated that gadgets were all going to be abandoned with the possible (probable?) exception of gaming systems. (Hence the editor in chief of Gizmodo's impassioned, and pleading, article not to follow through).
> 
> ...



Can you please provide some links to sources to corroborate your statements around Sony potentially spinning off their camera division? My Google searches have failed to find this. Also, when I look into the their financial reports, it appears their camera division is making profit. I'm not Wall Street trader though, so perhaps I'm missing something. Their Operatin Income was positive in FY16, FY17 and projected to be positive for FY18.


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## rjbray01 (Jan 31, 2019)

takesome1 said:


> Additionally, we will also promote change in the distribution of internal resources, *from development* to production as well as sales & marketing.
> 
> Sales double speak, less R&D money?



or, perhaps very optimistically, the target being improved production efficiency = lower production costs = lower sales price


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## espressino (Jan 31, 2019)

knight427 said:


> Can you please provide some links to sources to corroborate your statements around Sony potentially spinning off their camera division? My Google searches have failed to find this. Also, when I look into the their financial reports, it appears their camera division is making profit. I'm not Wall Street trader though, so perhaps I'm missing something. Their Operatin Income was positive in FY16, FY17 and projected to be positive for FY18.


I'm pretty sure that the gizmodo article he/she was referring to is this one: https://gizmodo.com/sony-please-dont-give-up-on-gadgets-1826205738


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## Expat Photographer (Jan 31, 2019)

knight427 said:


> Can you please provide some links to sources to corroborate your statements around Sony potentially spinning off their camera division? My Google searches have failed to find this. Also, when I look into the their financial reports, it appears their camera division is making profit. I'm not Wall Street trader though, so perhaps I'm missing something. Their Operatin Income was positive in FY16, FY17 and projected to be positive for FY18.
> View attachment 182932



It was announced in 2015, and the spin-off was completed in 2018. It's not a 'potential' it's already completed, that's what IP&S is. 

"Semicon" two lines down is Sony Semiconductor Solutions, another spin-off announced in October of 2015 and since completed. 

You're looking at the holding company's (Sony's) consolidated financial results. Semiconductor Solutions and Imaging Products and Solutions are separate companies. Sony is the holding corporation. 

SIP&S OI is fine, cameras segment isn't. https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/pdf/18q1_sonypre.pdf

Cameras segment is looking at, about, 3.8 million units moved in 2019 at no profit (though of course there's debate there). Many believe they will be sold, just as PCs were.


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## ethanz (Jan 31, 2019)

Expat Photographer said:


> It was announced in 2015, and the spin-off was completed in 2018. It's not a 'potential' it's already completed, that's what IP&S is.
> 
> "Semicon" two lines down is Sony Semiconductor Solutions, another spin-off announced in October of 2015 and since completed.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the PDF. When it says Pictures, I think that means "Sony Pictures" as in the movie and television production company. Back down in IPSS it says digital cameras have decreased about 20% from 2017 to 2018? Income is still positive, it sounds like because of their higher cost movie cameras.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 31, 2019)

Expat Photographer said:


> Pretty much. Photographers, while generally good people, are honestly really bad as a group when it comes to following the business news.


The implication is here that _you_ are good at following the business news, and then you go and suggest that Sony Pictures is the business unit that produces cameras.

Oh, the irony.


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## Expat Photographer (Jan 31, 2019)

espressino said:


> I'm pretty sure that the gizmodo article he/she was referring to is this one: https://gizmodo.com/sony-please-dont-give-up-on-gadgets-1826205738




That would be the one. As you can see early on in the article he links right to a Bloomberg article detailing the issue I brought (as I was saying, this has been in the news for years now and I'm not sure why so many reviewers seem to be completely unaware).

https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/irday/2018/presen_E.pdf

That was the 'real' impetus for the post


neuroanatomist said:


> The implication is clearly that _you_ are good at following the business news, and then you suggest that Sony Pictures is the business unit that produces cameras.
> 
> Oh, the irony.




'Quote from other post by poster I just ignored was here and I guess got deleted' - This was to someone else.

Because a typo? I typed 'pictures' instead of 'cameras' genius.

Yeah, me and Bloomberg are clueless.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...tail-shift-away-from-gadgets-in-mid-term-plan

Oh, and Gizmmodo.

https://gizmodo.com/sony-please-dont-give-up-on-gadgets-1826205738

Well, and the CEO of Sony himself, Yoshia.

https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/irday/2018/presen_E.pdf


But you're right, none of this is true, your snarkiness trumps Bloomberg, Nikko, Rakuten, and Nikkei (who's calling for no profit in 2019).

Irony? All of this in a thread around an article detailing how Canon is providing numbers of the decrease (quite drastic at that) for the next two years.


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## Expat Photographer (Jan 31, 2019)

ethanz said:


> Thanks for the PDF. When it says Pictures, I think that means "Sony Pictures" as in the movie and television production company. Back down in IPSS it says digital cameras have decreased about 20% from 2017 to 2018? Income is still positive, it sounds like because of their higher cost movie cameras.



Yeah sorry, that was a typo made while finishing up at work. 

Trying to find the Nikkei projections for 2019 I had. For some reason I didn't bookmark it. They have Sony at 3.8 million units moved in the digital camera market, worldwide, at no profit. 

This is Nikkei at the time of the announcement. https://asia.nikkei.com/Business/Sony-to-spin-off-camera-biz-completing-detachment-of-all-ops

Of course there's all sorts of debate about this, but part of the reason why is because Yoshia isn't hiding the fact that he's moving away from hardware. It's also pretty much the exact same path they took with PC's. 

Sony Rumors really did a good job of summing it up at the time:

"Under this new management style, the camera division can focus on what it does best, creating cameras and camcorders without worrying about a direct need to tie their product roadmap and strategy with that of another division. This means being held accountable for their products and performance – and no more of one division floating another in hopes of them eventually being profitable.
Now Sony Imaging Products & Solutions must act as if it were a separate company and if things go well, Sony Corp. reaps the benefits. If they’re unable to stay competitive and profitable, they’ll ‘simply’ be shuttered or closed down without repercussions to other parts of Sony that are doing well, like PlayStation.
"
This was October 2016. People have been talking about it since, just not reviewers.


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 1, 2019)

Expat Photographer said:


> SIP&S OI is fine, *pictures segment* isn't. https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/pdf/18q1_sonypre.pdf
> 
> *Pictures segment* is looking at, about, 3.8 million units moved in 2018 at no profit (though of course there's debate there). Many believe they will be sold, just as PCs were.





Expat Photographer said:


> Because a typo? I typed 'pictures' instead of 'cameras' genius.



Twice? That’s not a typo, you’re just sloppy.

Incidentally, I never disagreed with your premise. But thanks anyway for the link-laden snark-fest of a response to an argument I didn’t make.


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## ethanz (Feb 1, 2019)

Come on John and Expat, be nice. We don't need to get upset, lets just keep talking business.


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## M_S (Feb 1, 2019)

Woody said:


> Which is more attractive: a small, handy smartphone with a powerful processor that can make calls or a large camera with a powerful processor that cannot make calls? Regarding battery issues, I propose you compare the number of photos a tiny DSLR like the EOS 77D can take (sized down to ~ 12 MP like most smartphones) against that from a smartphone.
> 
> What I am trying to say is this: apart from image quality, there is no way an ILC can beat a smartphone. The Google Pixel 3 probably runs circles round most fixed lens compact cameras.


And that is what I am trying to say: If cameras stay the way they are now, they have a hard time competing, at least in the entry market. More things and computational power have to show up in order to see eye to eye with smartphones. And yes, pricepoint is also one aspect. If you can get a decent smartphone in the 700 Euro reach, which can do so much, as you correctly described, how can a 4000 Euro camera be as relevant as that one for that special area? Smartphones wouldn't have reached their popularity, if the manufactures would have had the attitude that they can't compete with computers, because they already existed, and that they would not use it for music, because walkmans existed as well. I think they clearly got rid of "no way" when bringing this product to the market, time and time again.


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## capital1956 (Feb 1, 2019)

Expat Photographer said:


> It was announced in 2015, and the spin-off was completed in 2018. It's not a 'potential' it's already completed, that's what IP&S is.
> 
> "Semicon" two lines down is Sony Semiconductor Solutions, another spin-off announced in October of 2015 and since completed.
> 
> ...



Even the pdf file that you posted here shows that the Imaging Products & Solutions Segment of SONY has a nice Operating Income. Not the No- profit that you stated. Am I missing something here?

https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/pdf/18q1_sonypre.pdf


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## TheScarletOak (Feb 3, 2019)

It is easy for me to understand the needs of Canon. With advanced business degrees I would advise the same. Nevertheless as a canon owner who has invested close to a hundred thousand in their high end lenses and bodies and is continuously underwhelmed by their new releases I can’t help but feel abandoned. My favorite 5DSR needs an update to come closer to the newer Nikon and Sony models. In many top ten camera lists the Canon products are no longer mentioned. If Canon keeps falling behind because they want to invest elsewhere and it’s cameras have half the advances of the competiton then any new buyer will avoid the Canon line. I will give Canon one more year and then I’ll switch to Sony AR7iii+ or NIKON’s 850. I loved my Canons but can’t be locked into a company who’s priorities are no longer mine.


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## Valvebounce (Feb 3, 2019)

Wow, yet another new sign up just to say ‘Canon, I’m off to xyz if you don’t make the camera I want,’ perhaps they expect more sympathy here than if they message Canon directly!


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 3, 2019)

Valvebounce said:


> Wow, yet another new sign up just to say ‘Canon, I’m off to xyz if you don’t make the camera I want,’ perhaps they expect more sympathy here than if they message Canon directly!


It’s a little sad that some people seem jealous, for lack of a better word, about products from other manufacturers. If someone has thousands or tens of thousands of dollars invested in Canon gear (I have the latter), most likely they can afford to switch or buy into another system, if that system offers something they need. But I suspect most people don’t honestly evaluate their needs, they just see that someone else has a feature they don’t have, and they wants it Precious, they wants it and they must haves it. And if Canon won’t be offer it, they’re going to jump ship. Except we know that they must likely won’t. 

Personally, my Canon gear does meet my needs. I saw no need to upgrade to the 1D X II, nor the 600/4 III. I don’t needs them, Precious.


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## Jack Douglas (Feb 3, 2019)

After skimming through these posts here is what I perceive. 

The long term viability of some companies if they are strictly producing cameras is shaky and there is no guarantee that Sony, for example, will continue to outpace Canon in various specs. After all, R&D is expensive. Leave Canon and invest heavily - I see this as an added risk and I won't since I prefer the complete Canon "package" and as Neuro suggests, I will not be a significantly better photographer if I do so. 

Smartphones are limited in sensor size and I can't imagine them ever competing in the serious photographer marketplace particularly relative to telephoto shooting for sports and wildlife or those who want/need the highest quality of photo. They are handy and have encouraged many people who never took photos to do so and some of them will develop an interest in more serious photography. This might actually be a benefit to be milked by the camera companies if they provide the right products that would appeal to these folk.

Canon is not a knee jerk company and I'm personally happy they are not rushing products to market based on having the most impressive tech sheet. To me they seem to be taking care of all the things that count for long term viability while still providing very good products and service. They knew very well where things were headed and have been slowly taking care of putting themselves in the best possible position to not only survive but stay on top.

For those who grumble, there is some truth to your complaints and so you really should jump ship and enjoy the grass on the other side. I will not unless it's for a camera that is small and not interchangeable-lens and even then I'd give a lot of thought to things like how good are they with repairs,etc.

Jack


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## Expat Photographer (Feb 10, 2019)

capital1956 said:


> Even the pdf file that you posted here shows that the Imaging Products & Solutions Segment of SONY has a nice Operating Income. Not the No- profit that you stated. Am I missing something here?
> 
> https://www.sony.net/SonyInfo/IR/library/presen/er/pdf/18q1_sonypre.pdf




That seems to be one of the points of debate.

If those internal, rosey, early numbers are spot on, why is the CEO telling investors straight out on investor days the new company isn't part of Sony's future? How are they, the new company, claiming digital camera profits (just one revenue stream in that total) are holding when from Bloomberg to Nikkei analyst are predicting flat on profits? How can the new company believably (they generate those numbers then give them to Sony) show numbers that fly in the face of the very widely reported beliefs that the sector is shrinking? Why is Sony taking, literally, the identical approach now that they did with Vaio when they dumped Vaio?

It's not just Canon who says the market is shrinking after all. 

It's Sony's CEO who really has many saying the gadgets (not just cameras) are going to be dumped. It's more than a tad peculiar to say Sony is going to keep the company in the future when the CEO himself lays out a detailed plan regarding the future, and gadgets (including cameras) are dumped.

"Sony's CEO is wrong, Sony's CEO isn't going to dump gadgets!"

That's one, ah, heck of an 'interesting' analysis alright.

Hence my harping on reviewers initially: CEO lays out what Sony will keep going future, and it doesn't include cameras; reviewers seem completely unaware and say opposite because they like the a9's eye tracking software.

Pretty obvious who the better source is here.

It's well past analyst predictions when publications like Gizmodo are pleading for it not to happen and the CEO is providing details about what they're going to keep. Reviewers need to follow the business news if they're going to tell their followers about the business news.

My prediction is they'll be sold to a Chinese company. Probably set up production in/near Shenzhen (NOT Guangzhou) use the proximity of HK as a big advantage and crack into western markets in a sector no Chinese company is remotely doing well in, or even barely trying to be honest. 

After all, this general approach has only happened about a gazillion times now. Over 700 similar deals in the past 10 years, just in western Europe alone, with more than half of those deals being complete buy-outs/take-overs. And as any expat who's lived on the mainland (like myself) can tell you, Chinese firms generally drool at the chance to 'show-up' Japan, it's all but the national sport.

We'll see what happens.


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## Kit. (Feb 10, 2019)

Expat Photographer said:


> My prediction is they'll be sold to a Chinese company.


I wonder if Lenovo is interested.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Feb 10, 2019)

Looking at the *December 31, 2018* report, it does not look like the imaging business is going anywhere. Sony did sell some manufacturing facilities for camera modules, likely ones used in mobile phones. Thats likely because they can buy the modules back for less than it was costing them to make them.

The basic message is that they, like Canon are shifting emphasis to higher end products because thats where sales are still doing well. I expect to see Sony with a low cost FF mirrorless, but for them, low cost is still higher than Canon. If they can't compete with the RP, their sales will take a big hit. Most camera buyers go for price.


Imaging Products & Solutions (IP&S)
Sales increased 22.6 billion yen year-on-year to 516.1 billion yen, mainly due to an improvement in the product mix reflecting a shift to high value-added models, partially offset by a decrease in unit sales. Operating income increased 14.1 billion yen year-on-year to 82.1 billion yen, primarily due to the above-mentioned improvement in product mix as well as reductions in operating costs, partially offset by the decrease in unit sales.


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## Expat Photographer (Feb 10, 2019)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Looking at the *December 31, 2018* report, it does not look like the imaging business is going anywhere. Sony did sell some manufacturing facilities for camera modules, likely ones used in mobile phones. Thats likely because they can buy the modules back for less than it was costing them to make them.
> 
> The basic message is that they, like Canon are shifting emphasis to higher end products because thats where sales are still doing well. I expect to see Sony with a low cost FF mirrorless, but for them, low cost is still higher than Canon. If they can't compete with the RP, their sales will take a big hit. Most camera buyers go for price.
> 
> ...



???

IP&S isn't the one that decides if IP&S is going to be sold by Sony.

" it does not look like the imaging business is going anywhere"

Ah, yeah it does, as detailed by the actions of Sony's CEO and the plan he laid out at investor's day.


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## Expat Photographer (Mar 28, 2019)

Hey, look at that, the company no longer exists. It's almost as if people have predicted this...

Cameras, TVs and mobile are now one company, with Sony deciding to remain the holding company, for now anyway.

Mobile was the worst preforming, by far, followed by cameras that Sony is showing in the black, after write-downs and sell-offs.

The new company, Electronics Products & Solutions (EP&S) will, for now anyway, be held by Sony. Analysts all over the planet are pointing out the old HS&E company, primarily TV's, will now have to float EP&S.

Good news for photographers since production and support should continue, pretty much, with no changes. No outside buy, like a Chinese buyer, so a bullet was dodged there. 

As we started all of this: get your business news after camera companies from business sources, not camera/photography reviewers. There's still uncertainty about the company and products, but the next couple years should be fairly stable and predictable. 

Be careful though, as cameras from Sony are more precarious in the long term then cameras from a restructured Nikon (have just missed bankruptcy last year), and far, far more precarious than an absolutely rock solid Canon.


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