# Don't understand why



## chauncey (Feb 12, 2015)

After reading that interview were it was stated that they had difficulty in squeezing everything 
into the new 5Ds...what possible rationale was it not made into a larger 1Ds series?


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## lintoni (Feb 12, 2015)

chauncey said:


> After reading that interview were it was stated that they had difficulty in squeezing everything
> into the new 5Ds...what possible rationale was it not made into a larger 1Ds series?


Because people would've been complaining if it was a $7000 camera?


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## Coldhands (Feb 12, 2015)

Reading the response to the second question, obviously size and weight were a priority. The increased bulk that would have come from making it in a 1D form factor would have been a major turn-off for photographers taking them into remote locations.


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## Tinky (Feb 12, 2015)

by the rational that the 1d series has always been about speed, and that there is no longer a 1ds series which tended to be more about quality. 

Sports photojournalists (rather than say amateur twitchers) would not buy a 5fps camera. And you don't need 50mp for newsprint or firefox.

Here's my own facile car analogy of the week.... And no, I don't have the sales data to back it up, I'm just bumping my gums like most folk who use internet forums...

Canon will make far more money selling the top end kit to wealthy hobbyists than they will to professionals. Like F1 car racing... it's product development, it's product placement... 'maybe if I buy a canon 1d people will think I'm a pro photographer rather than an accountant, or regional manager for 7-11, and tbey will think me talented, creative, artisan, windswept and interesting' like Nike shoes never made Michael Jordan jump higher, but ir was important to high school kids and gangsta rappers to have that 'adroit' 'serious' look. I'm not wearing $30 chuck taylor cons... i'm Michael Jordans understudy...

None of which is to say that canon don't carexmassively about making the world best slr system, just that imho, the professional market is less important for sales, but it's a market they want. They want white lenses at televised sports games. They want editoprials from photojournalists in the magazines with EOS 1d in italics below the pictures.

So the 1d needs to be something that the guys at the sharp end will pick up. They won't if it only does 5fps. I say only.

Also the guys who cough, ahem NEED that detail, probably aren't the same guys, pribably aren't u der gunfire, probably aren't behind a goal in the rain at a midweek English premier league football game, wiring their 50mp images back to fleet street 400miles away.

just a thought.


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## AcutancePhotography (Feb 12, 2015)

Tinky said:


> Canon will make far more money selling the top end kit to wealthy hobbyists than they will to professionals.



I think there is a lot of truth in that statement. Professionals buy tools that are good enough, reliable enough, cheap enough, ... enough, to be able to make a profit. Enthusiasts, not being concerned with profitability, can afford the "bestest and latest".


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## StudentOfLight (Feb 12, 2015)

chauncey said:


> After reading that interview were it was stated that they had difficulty in squeezing everything
> into the new 5Ds...what possible rationale was it not made into a larger 1Ds series?


If it's so impossible then how did they they fit all the required interfaces into the 7D-II body? Also, what is the bet that they will make the headphone jack fit in the 5D-IV?


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## psolberg (Feb 12, 2015)

it's just engineer talk to make an interesting article. everything is always pumped up to show how good they are. just pr.


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## sagittariansrock (Feb 12, 2015)

... people can't title a thread more informatively


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## AcutancePhotography (Feb 12, 2015)

sagittariansrock said:


> ... people can't title a thread more informatively



It is like people who entitle a new thread "I have a question". Hmmm


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## chauncey (Feb 12, 2015)

Oh gee whiz, did I offend someone's sensibilities...so very sorry!


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## sagittariansrock (Feb 12, 2015)

chauncey said:


> Oh gee whiz, did I offend someone's sensibilities...so very sorry!



Oh, you didn't offend me. I am not that sensitive, so your sarcasm is lost on me 
Just curious. 
Like those Facebook posts- I think they call it vaguebooking nowadays...
http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Vaguebooking


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## K (Feb 13, 2015)

StudentOfLight said:


> If it's so impossible then how did they they fit all the required interfaces into the 7D-II body? Also, what is the bet that they will make the headphone jack fit in the 5D-IV?




Exactly. 

Canon is lying about it not fitting.

Canon is notorious for intentionally crippling cameras so as to segment them, and cause users to buy a higher line camera for what amounts to simple, relatively inexpensive features. This works, because they know and ABUSE the fact that people invest in a system of lenses that aren't easy or cheap to replace. It is quite petty.

No jack means they want to move anyone interested in video into a particular DSLR meant for video. Same reason the video features are unimpressive on the 5DS. For those who want to do video, yet also want a high MP camera - they will have to buy 2 bodies. There will be no having your cake and eating it.

In my opinion, Canon could have created a high MP camera that does great video too. But they'd rather you spend nearly $4,000 for each specialized body or to get a few features that literally costs them nothing. 30fps vs 60fps 1080 video? Really Canon? Seriously? This is the same kind of petty crippling they did on the 6D. One card slot? A single cross AF point? The 6D, a focus and recompose camera only.

To Nikon's credit, they are far more generous with their inclusion of high end features across their camera lines. For whatever reason, Nikon doesn't feel threatened about good AF in a lower line FF camera like the 39 points, nor good video specs either such as 1080 at 60fps. Nor do they fear that providing dual card slots in everything from the D7100 and UP will somehow destroy the sales of their top models. Bravo Nikon.

Shame to Canon.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Feb 13, 2015)

K said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > If it's so impossible then how did they they fit all the required interfaces into the 7D-II body? Also, what is the bet that they will make the headphone jack fit in the 5D-IV?
> ...



That's a pretty strong statement. You have not provided any proof of this, or even stated where there is room in the existing body to put the jack and electronics. 

If you do not believe someone, that's one thing, but to call them a liar you should be able to show that it can be done without changes to the body, which is what was said.


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## Tinky (Feb 13, 2015)

+1

And as for crippling... this is most touted by video shooters... if you want a full professional camcorder feature set , then buy a full professional camcorder (if you also want that large sensor look and ef lenses its a c100 we are talking about)

if buy crippling you mean not over designing in and charging for features that most users will regard as redundant, then fine.

how crippled would your photo / video work be if canon hadn't started the dslr vido revolution at an increasingly modest entry point.

it's all a conspiracy.


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## RGF (Feb 13, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > StudentOfLight said:
> ...



I don't know all the details, but perhaps they could have fit a bit more in the body. But that would have meant more engineering challenges, manufacturing difficulties, a delay in releasing the camera, or perhaps a smaller buffer.

Hard to tell but I take Canon's statement at face value and put an asterisk behind it.


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## Joe M (Feb 13, 2015)

AcutancePhotography said:


> Tinky said:
> 
> 
> > Canon will make far more money selling the top end kit to wealthy hobbyists than they will to professionals.
> ...


Two of the most matter of fact and best sentences I've read in a while.


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## Mitch.Conner (Feb 13, 2015)

chauncey said:


> After reading that interview were it was stated that they had difficulty in squeezing everything
> into the new 5Ds...what possible rationale was it not made into a larger 1Ds series?



Perhaps they think more people will want the more compact body.

By asking, "what possible rationale" your question assumes that every customer would be willing to buy a 1D size body, therefore making Canon's effort to fit everything into a 5D3 body entirely unnecessary.


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## sagittariansrock (Feb 13, 2015)

Joe M said:


> AcutancePhotography said:
> 
> 
> > Tinky said:
> ...




Unfortunately, that makes it easier to predict the buying pattern of professionals but not that of enthusiasts. Professionals will go the extra distance and buy an OEM grip just for the sake of reliability. On the other hand, an enthusiast might buy a knock-off grip but spend thousands on an L lens because it is sexy (not saying everyone would do that- just pointing out that possibility exists).


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## Tinky (Feb 13, 2015)

Canon have pushed the boat out a bit with recent lenses. There are arguably no longer third party equivalents for the latest L's for example. Even at the other end, the 10-18 is a superlative optic for cropped sensor users for affordable cash.. why go third party.. obviously there are gaps that others plug, but these gaps are decreasing.

If canon relied on purely bona-fida card carrying professional users alone, I doubt they could justify the R&D etc that goes into the top kit. They might hypothetically see it as a loss leader for the reasons stated earlier (brand prestige) but the gilded uncle bobs are doing us all a favour. Economies of scale etc.


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## Joe M (Feb 14, 2015)

sagittariansrock said:


> Joe M said:
> 
> 
> > AcutancePhotography said:
> ...


They may have a harder time predicting the variability of the enthusiast market but I have a feeling they spend more time and effort marketing to them in order to get them to spend more than they really need to. 
In my case at least, I am Canon's dream customer because everything I use, right down to the batteries, is OEM.


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## RGF (Feb 14, 2015)

Mitch.Conner said:


> chauncey said:
> 
> 
> > After reading that interview were it was stated that they had difficulty in squeezing everything
> ...



I think has certain build standards. The 1D series is much higher, with higher functionality. Th prosumer version, the 5D, has lower though still very high standards. 

5D comes in a certain size, the 1D comes in a different size with a grip to make it larger. 

Personally I like the 1D size bodies and which canon would make the 5D in that size (with an integrated grip) which mean the battery compartment in the body which is occupied by the insert in the 5D would disappear and their would be much more room for Canon to add functionality.


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## keithcooper (Feb 14, 2015)

*What's a headphone socket?*

If it was intended to give the hint that the 5Ds wasn't really meant for video, then that's just great from my own POV. I'd have liked a 1 series, but I can see it might have been rather pricey ;-)

It's a tool to help earn my living and video has no part in that whatsoever. If you want a video camera, buy a video camera. It's nice to see a Canon camera marketed on its stills capabilities with hardly a mention of video, just for once...

Video fans, move on, this is not the 5D you are looking for... ;-)


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## Perio (Feb 14, 2015)

If Canon included more features in 5ds/5dsr, it'll be more difficult for them to sell Mkii versions of these cameras in the future. 

I think about 5diii. It's so good that lots of people will keep 5diii even once 5div is released.


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## Tinky (Feb 14, 2015)

*Re: What's a headphone socket?*



keithcooper said:


> If it was intended to give the hint that the 5Ds wasn't really meant for video, then that's just great from my own POV. I'd have liked a 1 series, but I can see it might have been rather pricey ;-)
> 
> It's a tool to help earn my living and video has no part in that whatsoever. If you want a video camera, buy a video camera. It's nice to see a Canon camera marketed on its stills capabilities with hardly a mention of video, just for once...
> 
> Video fans, move on, this is not the 5D you are looking for... ;-)



Given the horrific effect the aa filter has on video sharpness, I'm not convinced that the 5d3 was either.


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## zim (Feb 14, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> RGF said:
> 
> 
> > Hard to tell but I take Canon's statement at face value and put an asterisk behind it.
> ...




That was bloody funny ;D ;D ;D


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## Tinky (Feb 15, 2015)

*Re: What's a headphone socket?*



LetTheRightLensIn said:


> It's not the AA filter. ML RAW video looks sharp on the 5D3. But both internally recorded or clean HDMI out recorded video looks mushy. So it's either poor demosaic or nasty DNR or silly settings or *even a gaussian filter applied to protect higher end stuff.*



So canon wasted their time designed a root downconvertable sensor with larger pixels, higher base iso, and an ergonomic, audio specific, nd filtered, sdi capable, xlr capabale, interlaced capable unit in the c100. 300. 500?

All they really had to do was apply a guassian filter. How do you even do that live at 29.97fps? I'm sure wicked canon in their machevellian ways have found a method. Or maybe even canon, who are culpable in the creation of such a chimera, realise that there are better ways to shoot video than on a DSLR.

In terms of user experience... give me a panasonic ag455 from 20 years ago above a DSLR! Hint hint. The primary function of a video camera is video.. The primary function of an SLR is stills.

Primary function. Accept the caveats. But don't allege unfounded corporate conspiracy. It's actually libellous.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Feb 15, 2015)

Since no one apparently bothered to look, a simple glance at the ports on the camera shows that the USB3 jack is much larger, and leaves no room for a headphone jack. What Canon said was that it would not fit in the existing body, and it looks pretty true to me.


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## zim (Feb 15, 2015)

Can we therefore assume from all this usb position stuff that the first confirmed spec of the 5DIV will be that it will have USB2.0 ?


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## ERHP (Feb 15, 2015)

Since the 5DS/R has USB 3.0, why would they go back in time? Now if the MK IV adopts the USB Type-C connector, there will be plenty of room for the 'world will end without it' headphone jack.



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Since no one apparently bothered to look, a simple glance at the ports on the camera shows that the USB3 jack is much larger, and leaves no room for a headphone jack. What Canon said was that it would not fit in the existing body, and it looks pretty true to me.



Canon patented the USB 3.0 plug to be bigger just to take away the room for the jack. Years of planning were involved, government agencies subverted, aliens abducted.... oh wait, lol.


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## beforeEos Camaras (Feb 15, 2015)

zim said:


> Can we therefore assume from all this usb position stuff that the first confirmed spec of the 5DIV will be that it will have USB2.0 ?


 lol very funny these are bridge camera's the mk iv they will have ample time to reroute the ports if needed rember these ship late may or June mk iv is sometime after that


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## Tinky (Feb 16, 2015)

maybe because its a stills camera first and foremost they put the processing components best suited for still images in.

maybe they figured folk serious enough to notice the video compromises would be using the right tool for the job.

in any eos advert I've seen (outwith the cinema range) video is one of 20 bullet points. a footnote almost.


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## Ivan Muller (Feb 16, 2015)

AcutancePhotography said:


> Tinky said:
> 
> 
> > Canon will make far more money selling the top end kit to wealthy hobbyists than they will to professionals.
> ...



Agreed with the above, but......

I make a living from Photography, and although the new 5Ds is rather steep for me, and I probably wont get my money back quickly, I would get it nevertheless..why? 

Because its just such a lot of pixels that as a photographer I have to have it, just to see what the image quality is like. I find a lot of photography 'ignorant' clients often ask me how many pixels my camera has...and they usually raise their eyebrows when I mention (just) 20mp, imagine the reaction when I say 50mp's! I know its silly but one has to at least try and have a better camera than the client!

I also have a 44inch printer and frankly my 6d is just not up to the task with more detailed images like distant landscapes and industrial/architecture. Jaggies are quite visible. Clients like it a lot when I drop off a 'free' print of the shoot, and the bigger the better and extra pixels can only help...

For my personal stuff which is mostly documentary architecture I could see the extra detail will be great especially on large prints!

Its a lot cheaper than med format digital. Sure it wont have the same image quality but it will be a lot more than is currently available in 35mm, specially from Canon..I also just don't like having too many different systems...so if it can all be Canon, great.

50mp is not just for printing very large but also for making smaller prints look better...there was a reason many 'old' 8x10 negs were only contact printed...

The fact that it has dumbed down video and no dual pixel af is ok by me...its that sensor that I want.

The price seems reasonable for the pixels. One reason I wasn't keen to get the 5D3 is that I could get the same pixels in the 6D for a lot less...

I also like the fact that they have made an effort with the mirror. My Mamiya digital med format shutter slap is alarmingly loud and definitely affects my image quality on longer lenses at slower shutter speeds.

So, I am very excited about the new nifty fifty...and I look forward to pairing that with one of the smallest and cheapest lenses available...the 40mm pancake. But also with my 24TS..should make a fantastic architecture/interior/industrial combination.

The only thing I will miss terribly is GPS and wifi....but I can see using a camera like that for at least 4years. Thats how long I had my 5d2. 6D is now about 14months old and I just love it..only thing I wish it had was a few more pixels.


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