# Sony closing down?



## Don Haines (Jan 15, 2015)

Sony has already stopped making laptops....

They announced today that they are closing all their retail outlets (The Sony Store) in Canada.

This is "interesting" behavior and does not make me confident about their future. It looks a lot more like a company that is shutting down than a "market leader"


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## JPAZ (Jan 15, 2015)

FWIW they closed the Sony stores in my area a while back. 

Between myself and my family, we have many Sony Vaio laptops (I am on my second) and despite the price being a bit more than some of the competition, I always thought the product was well worth it. I was disappointed when they got out of the computer business. 

Now my wife and my kids have 3 different NEX cameras and a RX-100 between them. Sony also manufactures sensors for other camera makers. I sure hope they aren't going anywhere.


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## NancyP (Jan 15, 2015)

Brick and mortar retail everywhere is in a pickle. Better to leave the brick and mortar sales to retail specialists, and concentrate on their main business of engineering and manufacturing electronics.


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## LookingThroughMyLens81 (Jan 15, 2015)

Sony has been losing money for some time. Their PCs were stylish but never had the best hardware or pricing for the designs they were trying to do. They just haven't been competitive because they focus on high-priced - and often questionably designed - products. They sort of know what they are doing in some areas, but because there are so many divisions of Sony that are intertwined (Entertainment, Electronics/Semi-Conductor/Digital Imaging, Mobile, Digital Cinema, etc.), their direction has been haphazard in today's markets. Their retail stores never made money because they were not competitive in their pricing, but they were excellent for showcasing Sony tech and the quality of their TVs and Audio equipment. Sony was just too slow and monolithic to adapt fast enough for the current trends in low-priced, well performing tech because it was the antithesis of what they are all about, which is high-priced, middling tech with fashionable designs. Look at how they ruined the Walkman brand with no expandable memory and high-priced players with minimal audio format support. Only now is Sony starting to right their ship after a decade or so of questionable decisions.


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## jdramirez (Jan 15, 2015)

As far as sensors are concerned, they will sell their patents, so someone will produce them. 

As far a Sony gear... I have a ps2, ps3, audio system, and a hdtv ... So I like Sony quality.

Sony pictures had their screw up with the interview, but that should not hurt them that badly.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Jan 15, 2015)

I also see dangerous signs of poor financial health of Sony. I wish that they remain competitive to force Canon to to move your ass. :-\

In recent decades, Sony no longer that solid company that used to be. Sony offered unique and unsurpassed products such as Betacam, DVCam, Trinitron... :-[

Days ago I made a post about a new Sony Walkman, I consider intended to sell a few dozen worldwide, and CR members called me ignorant about the Audiophile market. 

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=24515.msg481257#msg481257


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## privatebydesign (Jan 15, 2015)

NancyP said:


> Brick and mortar retail everywhere is in a pickle. Better to leave the brick and mortar sales to retail specialists, and concentrate on their main business of engineering and manufacturing electronics.



Tell that to Apple........


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## Don Haines (Jan 15, 2015)

I have always liked their laptops. I have bought dozens of them at work and never had a failure. I bought one of the "flip" laptops for home and love it....

Now they have left the laptop market "because the world is moving to tablets". They are closing down the retail stores... It looks a lot like a huge restructuring over several years. It is hard to say what will stay and what will go, but it would certainly make me nervous.


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## mackguyver (Jan 15, 2015)

Sony's most profitable business, by far, is insurance. Some activist shareholders actually tried to get Sony to sell of their entire consumer electronics business last year.

Also, to quote Mike Myers Dr. Evil on his most recent Saturday Night Live appearance (just after Sony was hacked), "Sony hasn't had a hit since the Walkman".

Personally, I used to love their products, but other than the Vaios, everything else I've bought from them has crapped out just after the warranty, or they have stopped supporting it as soon as the next version of it came out 6 months later. They are so focused on doing everything in the short term (unlike Canon, Panasonic, & now Fuji) that none of their innovation is going to matter. It's sad to watch.


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## WesternGuy (Jan 15, 2015)

Well, Tower also announced to day that they are closing down their Canadian operation. Ouch, these shutdowns come on top of the decline in world oil. Can you say "hell in a hand basket"?

WesternGuy


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## Mitch.Conner (Jan 15, 2015)

Don Haines said:


> Sony has already stopped making laptops....
> 
> They announced today that they are closing all their retail outlets (The Sony Store) in Canada.
> 
> This is "interesting" behavior and does not make me confident about their future. It looks a lot more like a company that is shutting down than a "market leader"



It's not surprising. It's interesting only in the sense that it's what has been expected for some time - so we're seeing plans being put into action.

I wouldn't think too much about it affecting their camera division (at least in the short term) though as that's one of the divisions they've decided (at least from what I've read) to put their resources into while pulling resources out of other divisions such as their everyday consumer electronics.

Will their strategy pan out in the long term? Who knows. Even though I'm not interested in buying a Sony camera I have to admit that they've made a pretty big splash lately in that pool.

Personally, I think Canon and Nikon will be competing against Sony for quite some time.


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## eml58 (Jan 15, 2015)

Sony is and has been an extremely innovative company, unfortunately they have been led down the path of being everyman's (read also women) company for everything, and that just hasn't worked well for Sony, or indeed the consumer.

Sony it appears are at last waking to the fact that they need to be more specialised and concentrate their efforts in particular areas that have not just the best profits, but the best long term Market positioning for Sony.

There's a lot of Apple dislikers in the World, but fortunately for Apple they are outnumbered by the Apple likes, and say what you like about Apple, but when it comes to Business acumen, there are very few companies that can emulate them, innovative, Market specialists, concentrating on those products that Apple do better than most.

Sony would do well to take heed, it may just save them from obscurity in the medium term.


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## Hannes (Jan 15, 2015)

Those shops have never been about making money, they are a marketing expense. If sony felt they weren't getting enough marketing for their outlay the only reasonable thing is to close them down. They try to emulate apple but it doesn't work, partly because they don't have the sect like following apple do. Another big part is that their electronics simply isn't any better than the competition yet still costs the same or quite often more. When was the last time you heard about any true technological advances by sony? And no, the camera sensors don't count, they are evolutionary and nothing more.


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## distant.star (Jan 15, 2015)

.
You can be certain a company is in trouble when they stop posting cat pictures and videos.

I haven't seen Sony post a good cat picture in a long time now.


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## distant.star (Jan 15, 2015)

.
Oh, and Target also closing all Canadian stores...

http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/15/target-canada-property-idUSL1N0UU1SO20150115


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jan 15, 2015)

Sony is generally doing the right thing. They are focusing on making products and letting those who are retail experts sell them. They are not in danger of going out of business, but the lower yen value hurts a company that must import a lot of raw materials and parts.

Their Mobile Communications business is a dog, and they need to dump it, its dragging everything else down. 

Their motion picture business is losing, but not so much.

Their laptops were big money losers simply because of the price. 



While I do not like Sony products myself, I see that they are making necessary cuts in weak areas and concentrating on the parts that make money. They still need to bite the bullet and dump the mobile phones.


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## Joe M (Jan 15, 2015)

Sony needs to focus. They have spread themselves thin into various products. While this can be a good thing to carry a company through lean times where certain segments will falter and some shine, in their case, there has been little shining. Obviously they are doing well outfitting camera manufacturers with sensors but the phone, tv and computer sides of the business have been dismal performers for them. It's almost as though they think their name recognition reputation for stellar products still rings loudly in people's ears. They sadly don't seem to be the market leader they might have once been. They are just marginal market players when it comes to phone and tv. How can they be expected to make money? Cutting back by closing their stores is a good start. I can only remember myself having gone into one once in the last fifteen years. It was way back when I was looking into going digital.


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## c.d.embrey (Jan 16, 2015)

Don Haines said:


> Sony has already stopped making laptops....
> 
> They announced today that they are closing all their retail outlets (The Sony Store) in Canada.
> 
> This is "interesting" behavior and does not make me confident about their future. It looks a lot more like a company that is shutting down than a "market leader"



*Target leaving Canada, to close all 133 stores, lay off 17,600 workers.* From todays Los Angeles Times http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-target-leaving-canada-20150115-story.html

Maybe Canada is a bad place for brick-and-mortar stores. Could it be possible that Amazon, etc are killing local business even faster in Canada than in the USA ???

*It's not hard for me to envision a future with no local retail, except Big Box stores (Costco, Sam's Club) and Online Super Stores (like Amazon). A place without B&H and Adorama, because the camera companies sell direct to consumers online.*


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## R1-7D (Jan 16, 2015)

Damn, I like the Sony Store in Calgary at Chinook Center. I've never bought anything in there (probably like everyone else, which is why it's closing), but I always enjoyed going in there and playing with their cameras.


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## kphoto99 (Jan 16, 2015)

c.d.embrey said:


> *It's not hard for me to envision a future with no local retail, except Big Box stores (Costco, Sam's Club) and Online Super Stores (like Amazon). A place without B&H and Adorama, because the camera companies sell direct to consumers online.*



Sam's Club was closed down in Canada in 2009


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## canon1dxman (Jan 16, 2015)

Sony closed several shops in the UK some years back and franchised others. A wise move.

Sony is incredibly strong in the pro video market so I expect them to continue, just realigning their business model.


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## Bennymiata (Jan 16, 2015)

Sony used to have a number of stores in Sydney 5 or 10 years ago, but they've all closed too.
They used to make some great products like the CD players that held 200 or 400 disks and could be programmed via your PC for parties or events.
All their stuff nowadays is very ho hum and often too expensive compared to their competition.

All companies wax and wane, it's the ones that bounce back that can survive.


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## leGreve (Jan 16, 2015)

Sony isn't going anywhere, they just finally realised that you can't run brand name stores... it's business smart to let the retailers handle the sales instead.

I'm even more amazed that Apple stores in fx. Denmark still exist. They hardly make any money, because Apple have certain standards to how the stores are equipped, but the store owners have to pay for this design themselves as well as the courses for the employees to be able to serve Apple.


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## Tugela (Jan 16, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > Sony has already stopped making laptops....
> ...



Sony had stores long before Apple did.


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## Khnnielsen (Jan 16, 2015)

Sony well be around for a long time. As long as they keep having such strong position in the pro-video and broadcast market, then it can't be all doom and gloom. .


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## Jamesy (Jan 16, 2015)

c.d.embrey said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > Sony has already stopped making laptops....
> ...



Target has been a lame duck in Canada since they arrive. They failed to properly understand the nature of our retail market here and subsequent course corrections unfortunately were too little too late.

I think bricks and mortar will become the exception rather than the norm (in many market segments) eventually. How many of us have gone to check out something at a B+M location only to pop on over to B+H or Adorama or Amazon and buy it from there? I have and I am sure most of you have too.


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## tcmatthews (Jan 16, 2015)

Jamesy said:


> c.d.embrey said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...


And yet the opposite is also true. A few times I have found my self go to Amazon check a price then go to Adorama and B+H. After comparing price difference be tax and no tax check I would check availability at my local Best Buy. Some times it is the same as Amazon some times it is less. Given Amazon now collects state taxes there is no reason not to drive to Best Buy to pick it up after work. 

The big issue with Big Box stores selling electronics is the nature of electronics retail. In general most electronics are highly commoditized rapidly depreciating product. Especially true of consumer electronics. The margins are slim and you have to move product fast or soon your value will be higher average street price. Before the internet Big Box retailers could keep prices up longer(holding margins). Now the internet retailers will undercut them. With the internet you can sell to a wider group of customers. You have lower overhead so you can sustain lower margins. Becoming known as a retailer of out of date over priced electronics is a death sentence. I remember going to the Circuit City when it was going out of business. I needed a TV I found the TV I wanted it was marked down 75% it was still $150 more than Best Buy and $250 more than Frys electronics. 

As for Sony shutting down there retail outlets. That has been expected for a while now. They have been killed in TV, Cell phones, and nobody but Apple is making money on computers. Do they really need all that money tied up in retail locations if they stop selling computers, and TVs. They are scrubbing there audio products of money losing products.

Sony owning a retail outlet was a conflict of interest. If they cut the price to move products as needed in consumer electronics they would undercut retailers selling their product. So they kept things priced at MSRP. Nobody is going to pay MSRP if they do not have to. So the Sony stores could not move product.


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## Don Haines (Jan 16, 2015)

tcmatthews said:


> Jamesy said:
> 
> 
> > c.d.embrey said:
> ...


exactly!

It looks like they are taking a logical look at the business and restructuring. Brick and mortar seems to be closing down.. Laptops are gone. Tablets are being promoted. Cameras are being promoted.

My bet is that in a few years Sony will be a much smaller company, but better focused. It will be interesting to see what stays and what goes.


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## Maui5150 (Jan 16, 2015)

jdramirez said:


> Sony pictures had their screw up with the interview, but that should not hurt them that badly.



Are you serious? With all the emails, salary and other information that was released? Not only have they burned a lot of Hollywood bridges with the talent, they are facing privacy and protection lawsuits fallout that will continue for years. 

Comments like "“I believe that the international motion picture audience is racist — in general pictures with an African American lead don’t play well overseas"

Yeah - that is really going to help Sony's reputation

Getting a return on their money for "The Interview" is the least of their worries with all the emails and info that was released


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## jdramirez (Jan 16, 2015)

I suppose I was referencing the lack of box office receipts, there are big budget clunkers all the time.... But you usually account for that .

The rest is mostly embarrassing... So shay if Angelina jolie didn't make another movie for them... there is always talent wanting to make a film... 

And the black lead, doesn't make it not true. It is the world's they do international business in.



Maui5150 said:


> jdramirez said:
> 
> 
> > Sony pictures had their screw up with the interview, but that should not hurt them that badly.
> ...


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## rfdesigner (Jan 16, 2015)

Sony Semiconductor (Basingstoke UK) were a customer of mine about 12 years ago.. pretty big site, all gone now as much of it was mobile phones and that market is now just commodity, minimal RF development, a bit of a shame really, they should have moved into multi-GHz tech as that's really taking off. Their image sensors lead the field in smaller astro cameras (very very low noise), the Kodak sensors usually feature in bigger cams and E2V/Site are in the top end gear.

As with any multinational it's a curate's egg...


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## dickgrafixstop (Jan 16, 2015)

Mr. Morita would be turning over in his grave if he could see the mess his successors have made at Sony.
They make outstanding professional television lenses, but rely on Zeiss to provide good glass for their
cameras. With the exception of the new A series full frame cameras, the last years have provided one mediocre offer after another. They coasted on Minolta's start with the purchase, then lost their way completely in cameras. With the overall Sony corporations financials, I wouldn't be surprised to see them dump cameras as completely as they did personal computers.


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## adventureous (Jan 16, 2015)

I watched the interview at no cost, and wanted my money back. Horrible.


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## Oldcracker (Jan 16, 2015)

dilbert said:


> NancyP said:
> 
> 
> > Brick and mortar retail everywhere is in a pickle. Better to leave the brick and mortar sales to retail specialists, and concentrate on their main business of engineering and manufacturing electronics.
> ...



If brick & mortar is in a pickle, someone should tell Apple. The last time I saw a per square foot sales figure and comparison, Apple's was the highest in the U.S. if not the entire world. Their sales are between $6,000 and $4,500/sq.ft, depending on what the information source is. Tiffany's is a distant second. Granted, Apple may be a special case in a way, as they have no nationwide sales outlets outside of their stores and Best Buy. The few remaining independent resellers are not a big slice of their pie. While others (and I) may have legitimate gripes with them, the intentional dumbing down of OS X to IOS levels and the system slowing (yippee!) free Yosemite up(down)grade not the only significant ones, they are not making any visible mis-steps in their retail store strategy or its implementation.

Brick and mortar still provides somewhere in the neighborhood of 94% of all retail sales, so to say it's on the way out is a bit disingenuous. Photography buffs, professional or amateur, are a little different in outlook because we already are very familiar with and/or informed about the items about which we're interested.

To be sure, online ordering of goods and services is expanding every day, but it will in no way become the dominant way we buy things. Want to see the difference between two colors of your next car? Would you trust that decision to the internet or your own vision in person, in the sunlight? If you wear glasses, are you going to order them online? You can, I'll pass. There are tons of various examples. In the end, my opinion is that Sony's problems have been of its own making, not due to "bricks and mortar is dead".


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## c.d.embrey (Jan 16, 2015)

tcmatthews said:


> Sony owning a retail outlet was a conflict of interest.



When Sony started their camera division, many B & M Camera stores Would Not stock Sony cameras. They thought that Sony Stores were unfair competition. They though that Sony Stores would be the first to get new product, and that Sony Stores could stock deep. This is not supposition, I talk to several local camera stores back then.

Now most of the B & M camera stores are gone. Large chains (Calumet, most Ritz) and Mom & Pops as well.


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## c.d.embrey (Jan 16, 2015)

kphoto99 said:


> Sam's Club was closed down in Canada in 2009



Sam's Clubs are still killing local retail stores in the USA. Almost impossible to find a parking space at SoCal Sam's Clubs. 

BTW Costco and Sam's Clubs sell meat and green groceries, not jus 5 gallon bottles of pickles. And some Super Market chains are closing down stores in SoCal (Albertsons, Ralphs).


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## Oldcracker (Jan 16, 2015)

c.d.embrey said:


> kphoto99 said:
> 
> 
> > Sam's Club was closed down in Canada in 2009
> ...



Sam's Club and Costco are "brick and mortar" retailers for the most part, even though they're discounters. Great prices on a THIN selection in most specialty goods areas such as cameras and electronics (at least in the physical stores).


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## c.d.embrey (Jan 16, 2015)

*Wet Seal Inc. filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy, a week after it closed two-thirds of its locations and laid off thousands ...Wet Seal to close 338 stores, lay off nearly 3,700 employees ...The retailer now has 173 locations and its online business. http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-wet-seal-bankruptcy-20150116-story.html*

For those of you not familiar with Wet Seal http://www.wetseal.com they are a young women's clothing retailer.

The world of retail is changing.


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## jdramirez (Jan 16, 2015)

We all are the free speech business... We all have an obligation to protect free speech. I paid money... The movie was ok... not great... not awful.... some memorable moments... And I'm happy to have laid in lieu of allowing cyber terrorism to prevail.



adventureous said:


> I watched the interview at no cost, and wanted my money back. Horrible.


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## c.d.embrey (Jan 16, 2015)

Oldcracker said:


> Sam's Club and Costco are "brick and mortar" retailers for the most part, even though they're discounters. Great prices on a THIN selection in most specialty goods areas such as cameras and electronics (at least in the physical stores).



There is more to life than "cameras and electronics." Much more.

When I go into a Costco I buy Books, Clothing, Drugs/first aid and Food. *I've stopped buying T-shirts at JCPennys, which is my point.* Big Box stores are damaging local retail, and Adorama, Amazon and B&H are damaging local camera stores. The loss of Calumet was the loss of a good *rental store* for me. I'm not going to rent Profoto packs from B&H who is 3,000 miles from me.


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## Don Haines (Jan 16, 2015)

adventureous said:


> I watched the interview at no cost, and wanted my money back. Horrible.



I still wonder if the "hack attack" was a publicity stunt to get more people to see the movie. It is a second rate movie with second rate actors and never had a chance to be well viewed.... after the hacking stunt, I am sure it was seen by ten times as many people as otherwise....


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## preppyak (Jan 19, 2015)

Don Haines said:


> I still wonder if the "hack attack" was a publicity stunt to get more people to see the movie. It is a second rate movie with second rate actors and never had a chance to be well viewed.... after the hacking stunt, *I am sure it was seen by ten times as many people as otherwise...*.


Absolutely not. You're forgetting how many people go see comedies nowadays just because of who is in them. Nate Silver ran a prediction (based on similar movies, including Pineapple Express with the same cast) and it would have made $100mil. Heck, even if it made half of that, last estimate I saw was that the Interview might gross about $40-50mil now. So, at best Sony broke even on expectations, probably lost money in reality, and crumbled their entire studio in the process. Sounds unlikely to be a publicity stunt...

The fallout might cripple Sony Studios, but, truth is running a studio might not be a profit-generator much into the future anyway


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## preppyak (Jan 19, 2015)

Sony won't close down though. Their sensors are in the vast majority of cameras people are using today, so they can spin that off as a profitable business on its own. Especially since their major competitors rely on them. I'd actually argue their failure to produce a consistent lens line is a function of them not trying to overextend their camera division. Instead they let 3rd parties handle that and focus on making cameras people want. And ones that adapt to legacy lenses that are used in the industry (PL, etc)


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## moreorless (Jan 19, 2015)

preppyak said:


> Sony won't close down though. Their sensors are in the vast majority of cameras people are using today, so they can spin that off as a profitable business on its own. Especially since their major competitors rely on them. I'd actually argue their failure to produce a consistent lens line is a function of them not trying to overextend their camera division. Instead they let 3rd parties handle that and focus on making cameras people want. And ones that adapt to legacy lenses that are used in the industry (PL, etc)



I would argue the opposite, I think a lot of the reason for Sony moving into mirrorless was exactly to cut out competition from 3rd party lens makers allowing them to have a sales tactic of drawing in customers with cheap cameras and then ultimately charging them more with expensive lenses. That's the kind of business tactic that's always held them back in photography if you ask me, you'll get some gadget freaks buying into it and some very casual users but there simply not trusted(rightly so IMHO) by much of the market.

The sensor division is a separate part of Sony to the camera division as well so its perfectly possible that the former stays and the latter is shut down or downsized greatly.


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## Hjalmarg1 (Jan 19, 2015)

distant.star said:


> .
> Oh, and Target also closing all Canadian stores...
> 
> http://www.reuters.com/article/2015/01/15/target-canada-property-idUSL1N0UU1SO20150115


I hope it's only in Canada...


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## jeffa4444 (Jan 22, 2015)

Sony did annouce it was closing its PC unit but it also annouced preliminary 2014 results which show revenues increasing and EBITDA improving. It showcased a lot of new products at CES and the sensor business is a shining star they hold around 60% of the global market. The CMOS market is growing fastest in things like Auto, Surveillance & Industrial whilst Photography is falling. Sony cameras are used in the Iphone 6 as well as many other cellular phones but its not these areas that have badly affected Sony. 
TVs, Cellular, the delay in the PS4 launch & many of Sony "traditional products" that have matured and are commodities are made cheaper by other companies in Korea & China. Sony needs value added products like the PS4 
because Japan is a high cost country even with there automation. 

Interestingly Sony have a 20% stake in Olympus after Olympus accounting fiasco they mainly did this because of Olympus strong presence in medical equipment not photography.


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