# Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Cameras [C



## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 31, 2018)

```
<p>We’ve been receiving a lot of information lately about Canon’s upcoming full frame mirrorless camera, the following information is apparently about one of the prototype camera bodies currently being tested.</p>
<p><strong>Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Prototype Specifications:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Look & Feel: large grip with top LCD, very comfortable to hold; dials are very similar to those we found on the EOS 5D Mark IV.</li>
<li>Side articulating screen</li>
<li>Sensor: Upgraded version of the EOS 5D Mark IV sensor, obviously includes DPAF.</li>
<li>Frame rate: 10FPS</li>
<li>Silent shutter and 1/16000sec shutter speed is available</li>
<li>Focus control is very similar to EOS 5D Mark IV’s 61-pt AF system.</li>
<li>Dual SD card slots</li>
<li>Video Features: C-Log 1/2/3, Focus Guide</li>
<li>Formats available: 60p/30p/24p 4K (both DCI & UHD can be chosen).</li>
<li>FHD 120p</li>
<li>Weight: not very light, but similar to Sony A7 but a bit larger due to the big grip.</li>
</ul>
<p>The mount type remains the big omission from the information we continue to receive.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## AlanF (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

And the mount?


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## zim (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

Duel SD slots? great but doesn't sound correct.

Put an OVF on that you've got the perfect camera 8) ;D


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## BeenThere (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

Must be an April fool joke. Too close to what I want.


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## Joatamos (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

I'm inclined to think if it was native EF-mount, that would've been the first thing announced / leaked - would any other single specification get more people excited??? :-\


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## fentiger (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

if it has a EF mount i would be very interested, price expect to be north of £$3000


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## ahsanford (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

This is nonsense.

- A


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## fentiger (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

nonsense until proven otherwise, we can live in hope for now!


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## Hector1970 (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

It’s got 4K so its got to be fake news.
Of course I’d be tempted to wait for a camera like that.


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## Buck (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

thought you needed a cfast card for high capacity 4k video


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## bellorusso (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

Sounds worse than what Sony offers. Canon is not trying very much to catch up.


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## Ryananthony (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

The only item on this list I believe could be true is that it shooots 10fps


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## ahsanford (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

Just feels off:


100% top of the list: _*You lead with the mount*_. It's the biggest visual delta to prior designs, the first thing you look for whne you see it, etc. It's also terribly implausible to get the lowdown on all these other things and not know the mount as well.
AF focus control and how many AF points you have are two different things -- they wouldn't share a line item like that.
When's the last time Canon did a single motion (tilt-only or swivel-only) LCD? The M3? Seems unlikely.
Zero discussion of the EVF -- kind of a big deal
Is 4K 60p even possible on SD? (I'm not well read on card throughput.)

Just not buying it (the rumor, that is).

That said, it kind of has to have 4K, and I'm highly confident that it will. _How it is limited/constrained/nerfed/etc._ is what will matter on that line item of the spec sheet. But full-frame readout, 60p, etc. I would not get your hopes up.

- A


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## MintChocs (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

From those specs I would imagine most of us couldn’t afford the price. Sony A7mkiii here I come!


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## dhachey77 (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

Not bad for a 5-yr old mirrorless design... I'll probably get one for my grandkids. Enough sarcasm. I sure hope Canon can do better than this. Take a look at Sony's recent A7 and A9 bodies to see what can be done. Before you go all fanboy on me, consider that I've been shooting with Canon gear for nearly 50 years, and currently do so with a lot of their high end bodies and lenses. You'll have to pry my cold, dead hands off my 1D X and 200-400 before I give them up. 63 AF points! Is that a joke?


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## ahsanford (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



dhachey77 said:


> 63 AF points! Is that a joke?



That's why I think this is off. Who says it has 'AF controls like a 61 point AF predecessor'?

It would say:

X# of AF points
Touchscreen AF pt selection like the 5D4

Also, it will have a s---ton more AF points than 61 because it's DPAF! 

They may discrete-ize (discretize?) the points into something easy to select with a joystick, but there will be a ton of AF points. At B&H, the M5 and M6 didn't publish their AF pt numbers, but the mid-level crop M50 lists 143/99 depending on contrast vs. phase detect. Expect no less from a much pricier FF rig.

Again: not buying this rumor.

- A


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## Talys (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



zim said:


> Duel SD slots? great but doesn't sound correct.
> 
> Put an OVF on that you've got the perfect camera 8) ;D



LOL LOL +100!

It actually sounds like the perfect DSLR hahahaha. 

If this rumor is true, I want this camera, whether it is a DSLR or mirrorless. If Canon is really nice, they'll make the same camera in DSLR AND mirrorless, and I will probably be forced to buy both, lol.


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## canonnews (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



ahsanford said:


> Also, it will have a s---ton more AF points than 61 because it's DPAF!



that's how Canon specifies AF points under DPAF. the M5 for instance has 49 AF points according to specs, even though depending on mode, you use all 18 million or so individual PDAF points.


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## Antono Refa (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



zim said:


> Duel SD slots? great but doesn't sound correct.



UHS II (U3 / V30) is sufficient for 4K @ 60fps, and there already are cameras with dual UHS II slots as well as SD cards that are up to speed, so the tech is already out there.


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## f119a (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Canon Rumors said:


> We’ve been receiving a lot of information lately about Canon’s upcoming full frame mirrorless camera, the following information is apparently about one of the prototype camera bodies currently being tested.</p>
> <li>Frame rate: 10FPS</li>
> <li>Silent shutter and 1/16000sec shutter speed is available</li>
> <li>Video Features: C-Log 1/2/3, Focus Guide</li>
> ...



There are things that Canon will not do at least for now, and due to their old tech I don't even think it's possible in 2018 (to be reliable and stable enough).
Besides, almost no one in the MILC market (the only exception I could remember is GH5s) do 4k DCI 60p.
A7III A7RIII XH1 they all stay at 30p.
C-Log 1/2/3 + Focus Guide: is just not Canon would do unless they want to sell this for over $10k like 1D C.

I would say this is very close to the CR0 side in CR1 range.


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## Talys (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



ahsanford said:


> dhachey77 said:
> 
> 
> > 63 AF points! Is that a joke?
> ...



Perhaps not. 

First of all, there's a question of _selectable_ AF points. Even if you have millions of data points for creating focus with DPAF, the camera will only offer you so many to choose from.

Secondly, just because it's a mirrorless doesn't mean that it can't have PDAF. We could potentially be looking at a hybrid system, like Sony, where there is PDAF and DPAF operating simultaneously, as they do with PDAF and Contrast Detection.

Is DPAF superior to PDAF for autofocusing on _every_ type of subject? I don't know this for a fact, because I really don't use DPAF enough on a DSLR, and I down own a Canon EVF camera. But even so, comparing an M5 to a 5D wouldn't be fair.

In the Sony world, the PDAF is used for fast autofocus; the CDAF is used or needed for a lot of the "advanced" features. It's one of the odd paradoxes of using an adapted lens through Metabones: you have your choice of using PDAF and getting usable autofocus minus all of the cool features ("Green" mode), or getting all of the cool features but having AF that's horrendously slow ("Advanced" mode).


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## ahsanford (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

Also, does anyone have any tabulated fps in LiveView with AF working for the various DPAF FF cameras? I went to Imaging Resource for their burst testing, and though they are thorough with the JPG vs. RAW vs. JPG + RAW, etc. they don't tabulate DPAF vs. OVF-based work or get into AF impact of burst speed.

I've also seen the 16 fps 1DX2 demonstrations on YouTube, but I haven't seen the DPAF AF confirmation on the screen when they did it.

The sensor/CPU _sans AF_ can clearly reel in a camera's published fps or that fps would never be possible. But I'm curious if doing the DPAF heavy lift in FF limits the frame rate. I found a Rudy Winston Canon 5D4 video that seemed to imply that 7 fps through the OVF becomes 4.3 fps w/DPAF.

But on the other hand, we're getting peppy DPAF fps from the M50, M5, etc.

So, how realistic is 10 fps DPAF performance on a (guessing) 30 MP FF sensor?

- A


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



bellorusso said:


> Sounds worse than what Sony offers. Canon is not trying very much to catch up.



That's because Canon is not behind.


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## canonic (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



neuroanatomist said:


> bellorusso said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds worse than what Sony offers. Canon is not trying very much to catch up.
> ...



Then tell us, where is the Canons - full frame mirrorless? More then that behind, canon cant be.


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## KeithBreazeal (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

OK, but dual SD slots?
Other than that, it looks like my FF mirrorless wish list I posted months ago. LOL
I really want the 5D IV style and feel along with the EF mount. Anything other that, I'm out.


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## Khalai (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

Well, all I basically wanted was 6D form factor with better sensor, kick-ass EVF and EF mount. But I fear for the price. This will be north of 3500 USD I'm afraid. All those measurebators, who compare cameras using paper spec-sheets will be all over this, when A7III costs "just" 2000 USD.


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## KeithBreazeal (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Khalai said:


> Well, all I basically wanted was 6D form factor with better sensor, kick-ass EVF and EF mount. But I fear for the price. This will be north of 3500 USD I'm afraid. All those measurebators, who compare cameras using paper spec-sheets will be all over this, when A7III costs "just" 2000 USD.



Yes, but it's a Canon!
In all seriousness, who in their right mind would ditch all their big whites and various assortments of Canon FF lenses and jump ship over a few extra dollars?If you're going to go, go big.


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## Talys (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



KeithBreazeal said:


> Khalai said:
> 
> 
> > Well, all I basically wanted was 6D form factor with better sensor, kick-ass EVF and EF mount. But I fear for the price. This will be north of 3500 USD I'm afraid. All those measurebators, who compare cameras using paper spec-sheets will be all over this, when A7III costs "just" 2000 USD.
> ...



Yeah!

I'm puzzled by the market for a $2000 body, if there's a clearly superior $3,000 alternative, because the camera body doesn't exist in a vacuum. Once you add in the price of all the other stuff, the $1,000 seems insignificant. Never mind thousands of dollars in lenses, it gets eaten up just in accessories like L plates and grips. But I guess that's just me.


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## ahsanford (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

My gut stills says that they start modestly and scoop up enthusiasts with a solid but not incendiary offering: a 6D2 + EVF + (modest) 4K + better sensor.

Charge a tasty premium over the 6D2 for the newer sensor / 4K / first Canon FF mirrorless, say $2499 or so, and call it good.

_Then_ they can make a proper mirrorless 5D.

- A


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## ahsanford (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Talys said:


> KeithBreazeal said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, but it's a Canon!
> ...



You're both talking like either established professionals or enthusiasts with good money committed to your love of photography. 

But a budding professional sees a $2K beast of an A7III and says "This does how much more than a 5D4 *and* its cheaper? Take my money!" 

I'm not saying that's a wise move or that the potential of the A7III's spec sheet will be realized in their hands, but I would not be so quick so dismiss how important the A7III may turn out to be -- a fully-featured FF rig at an enthusiast FF price point is nothing to disregard.

Outside of friendly confines here at CR, the buzz is deafening for that A7III as a potential market changer for Sony. 

- A


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## CafferyPhoto (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

Man, this group of commenters sound like a group of people who have had their hopes crushed time and time again only to be promised something outstanding one more time. I'm still holding hope, It'll be a great camera when it comes out... sometime.

I'm putting in my prediction for the moniker "5DM"


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## ethanz (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



KeithBreazeal said:


> Khalai said:
> 
> 
> > Well, all I basically wanted was 6D form factor with better sensor, kick-ass EVF and EF mount. But I fear for the price. This will be north of 3500 USD I'm afraid. All those measurebators, who compare cameras using paper spec-sheets will be all over this, when A7III costs "just" 2000 USD.
> ...



Many people are crazy and not always rational.


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## ahsanford (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



CafferyPhoto said:


> Man, this group of commenters sound like a group of people who have had their hopes crushed time and time again only to be promised something outstanding one more time. I'm still holding hope, It'll be a great camera when it comes out... sometime.
> 
> I'm putting in my prediction for the moniker "5DM"



No no -- it will be a great camera, don't get us wrong. It just won't have a white hot spec sheet. Disregarding the 1-series, which is not a normal platform by any means, Canon doesn't do eye-popping spec sheet bodies any longer. But it will work brilliantly, I'm sure.

...and this dismays the partisan, beat-on-their-chest 'my camera is better than yours' people. Or people whose self-worth is reinforced by the 'bestness'/greatness of their purchases. Canon is simply not for people like that.

- A


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## fentiger (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

Canon should be looking to compete against the A9, not the A7III, the A7III is sony entry level full frame


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## Talys (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



ahsanford said:


> You're both talking like either established professionals or enthusiasts with good money committed to your love of photography.
> 
> But a budding professional sees a $2K beast of an A7III and says "This does how much more than a 5D4 *and* its cheaper? Take my money!"
> 
> ...



I wasn't taking issue with the A7III or A7RIII's value proposition versus Canon, there; more so, that the budding professional photographer needs to spend $10,000, so it's a difference between $10k and $9k -- so if you're going to go in, go all in. That's especially true in the Sony world where all the GM lenses are scary expensive.

The ONLY reason I bought a 6DII and did not buy a 5DIV is because the 5DIV doesn't have an articulating (or even flip down) screen, and I absolutely need one for my work. It's that or a step ladder.

But in the case of A73 vs A7R3, the A7R3 is better in pretty much every single way, with the big plus that crop mode is 18 megapixels, which is quite usable. The A73 also doesn't come with a _battery charger_, which is some stupid price if you want to buy one from Sony instead of use a cheap Chinese knockoff that might burn your house down. Or, you charge it through the USB-C port, hehe.

Ironically, the buzz that I hear at places like camera shops is that the A7iii kills the market for used A7Rii 

I can't speak for others, but more than once, I have made poor decisions by minimizing the total package price in my mind, and then later wishing I could go back and remake that decision. The Sony version of this would be to buy an A7iii and a kit lens as a budding pro, and then within months dwarf that purchase with a GM lens for portrait, a GM intermediate 2.8 zoom, and a GM walkaround... then a bunch of lighting... and wish that you had just purchased an A7Riii instead.


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## ahsanford (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



CafferyPhoto said:


> Man, this group of commenters sound like a group of people who have had their hopes crushed time and time again only to be promised something outstanding one more time. I'm still holding hope, It'll be a great camera when it comes out... sometime.
> 
> I'm putting in my prediction for the moniker "5DM"



Case in point to my last post: can you tell me the last time people here lost their minds over the announcement of a new body?

Perhaps the M5 finally getting an EVF + DPAF? And that was more about something long overdue / stumbling slowly towards market parity than legitimately firing people up that a new body would be gangbusters.

I love Canon gear and I'm not going anywhere, but sexy spec-per-dollar offerings engineered to get young men to pull out their credit cards are simply not what they do.

- A


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## Khalai (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



ahsanford said:


> You're both talking like either established professionals or enthusiasts with good money committed to your love of photography.
> 
> But a budding professional sees a $2K beast of an A7III and says "This does how much more than a 5D4 *and* its cheaper? Take my money!"
> 
> ...



To be completely honest, that A7III really made me thinking as well. I mean, on paper, those specs are truly droolworthy, considering 2K USD price tag. But Sony (and Batis and Loxia) lenses are anything but cheap. So I'd have to hassle with aftermarket EF-E adaptor, which is always another point of error in the whole system. And considering that my 6D still serves me well as a non-professional photographer, I'm patiently waiting for Canon solution with Canon ergnonomics, Canon colour science and Canon reliability...


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## cpreston (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

April Fool rumor. This was submitted by some video troll. Listing multiple versions of c-log automatically guaranteed it is fake. No stills camera will ever have more than one version of log for video recording.


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



canonic said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > bellorusso said:
> ...



Where are Sony's 600mm and 800mm lenses? They're _soooooo_ behind. 

Alternatively, it might be that what we personally think is important, isn't actually all that significant in the context of the overall ILC market. Just maybe.


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## bgoyette (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

Sounds like fantasy to me. 4K60p? No way.. but bigger —C-Log 2? That would imply 10bit. Can’t see that happening. As others have said, if the source had true knowledge, the mount would have been the most obvious thing to mention. I’m calling fake.


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## ahsanford (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



cpreston said:


> April Fool rumor. This was submitted by some video troll. Listing multiple versions of c-log automatically guaranteed it is fake. No stills camera will ever have more than one version of log for video recording.



Figured there'd be a clear tell with video, thanks for speaking up. On stills it's less an obvious fake so much as fake-flavored.

I still won't give a single spec sheet the benefit of the doubt without the mount being the first thing listed. I appreciate many slightly-differently-spec'd bodies might be out there, so things like the sensor MP count, if they flip the 4K dipswitch ;D, deep menu items like spot metering linked to an off-center AF point, etc. might honestly be very near production time decisions, but the mount drives so much else that I'd be stunned if that was still a TBD or unclear to leakers at this stage.

- A


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## docsmith (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

This thread is great, oscillating between the specs being too good to be true and Canon is ******* because these specs would have only been good in the 1980's. 

Personally, I'd like to hear about battery life, EVF (features, pixel density, refresh rate, etc), more on size/weight, etc. The 10 fps and 1/16,000 shutter are nice, potentially very nice, but I'd like to see where this camera is better than a 5DIV and where it is potentially deficient. 

Until then, I'll be happy shooting with my 5DIV.


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## ahsanford (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



docsmith said:


> This thread is great, oscillating between the specs being too good to be true and Canon is ******* because these specs would have only been good in the 1980's.



+1. I noted this as well. I'll give you a diving rod for sorting that out:

[It has a chunky grip, 5D4 controls and 10 fps] = utter joy for existing Canon users or those that want a seamless transition from FF SLR on one shoulder to FF mirrorless on the other, esp. those that read these tea leaves as meaning that a chunky grip = an EF mount is coming along with it. Current mood: Canon will reign forever.

[does not list the features IBIS, Eye AF, a gajillion AF points, backside illuminated, etc.] = crushing disappointment for those that wish that Canon could just be like Sony. : Current mood: YAPODFC, possibly kicking the dirt like a six year old who didn't get the birthday present he expected.

_My_ current mood = Skeptical in specifics but optimistic for the future. Half this forum will freak the eff out when the mount decision isn't what they wanted (when it becomes clear what it definitely will be, like a late Nokish.ita marketing photo leak), but I am not with either group. I'm much more curious what very likely will be my next body* will look/feel like. 

*I'm not saying I'll replace my 5D3 for what surely will be an overpriced first offering so much as _the decisions this first FF mirrorless rig makes will highly inform future models._ In FF, I don't anticipate an EOS M like evolution from [underpec'd/tiny/slow/ergonomically ridiculous] to [solid/ergonomic/functional] over time -- we'll get a solid working camera on day one that future rigs will probably highly resemble in future iterations.

- A


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## siegsAR (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

There's no way it will use the EF mount. If it did, it will be the first info we'd see.

The lack of mount info makes this a *little credible, not the other way around.


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



docsmith said:


> ...where it is potentially deficient.



Well, if you believe some on this forum, the deficiency is obvious.


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## bhf3737 (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Canon Rumors said:


> Dual SD card slots
> Video Features: C-Log 1/2/3, Focus Guide
> Formats available: 60p/30p/24p 4K (both DCI & UHD can be chosen).</li>


As for video specs, dual UHS-II SD card slots are more compact than CF cards and it is possible to record 4K 60P (with V30 or V60 SD cards); Having said that, we haven't seen UHS-II SD card slot in any Canon still camera offering, yet. C-Log2 was developed for the 10bit internal XF-AVC 4:2:2 codec which is present in the C300 MK II. It is not even included in C200. I don't see it be put in a still camera or even a hybrid camera. But perhaps Canon wants to surprise us. There is high probability that this rumor is fake.


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## Adelino (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

What is the CR rating on this?


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## ahsanford (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



siegsAR said:


> There's no way it will use the EF mount. If it did, it will be the first info we'd see.
> 
> The lack of mount info makes this a *little credible, not the other way around.



1) The conviction you have it is a thinner-than-EF mount is matched by the conviction of others that it isn't.

2) Thin mount is just as newsworthy as it means folks will need to live with adaptors / replace some lenses. 

In either case, the mount is the center-of-the-universe for debate around this camera. The rest can change with future models. Though we might see both an EF and thin mount mirrorless over time, I'm guessing this is the biggest technical call Canon has had to make since EF's initiation in the late 80s.

- A


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## scyrene (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



ahsanford said:


> I love Canon gear and I'm not going anywhere, but sexy spec-per-dollar offerings engineered to get young men to pull out their credit cards are simply not what they do.



Probably because, despite all the hype and chatter, 'sexy spec sheets' *don't* get people pulling out their credit cards in large enough numbers.


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## Talys (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



ahsanford said:


> siegsAR said:
> 
> 
> > There's no way it will use the EF mount. If it did, it will be the first info we'd see.
> ...



I couldn't agree more with everything you've said. 

My money is still on a native EF compatible mount (not EF but EF will work adaptorless) .


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## Don Haines (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



siegsAR said:


> There's no way it will use the EF mount. If it did, it will be the first info we'd see.



There's no way it will use a new mount. If it did, it will be the first info we'd see. 


These are partial claimed specs.... it is a rumour of a rumour.... and even if it were true, it is about a prototype, and very few prototypes make it into production. I put no weight on this.


----------



## CanoKnight (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

60p @4k ? Wow. Are they trying to take on the GH5 as well ? [email protected] I would have liked 180p but I guess I can suffer 120p.

But what does this mean for Canon's precious Cinema EOS ? I am not buying this. Like one poster said, this is "fake news" from the Failing Canon.


----------



## The Fat Fish (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

Add IBIS, make sure the 4K is usable and make it $2000 and it'll be a good camera. There's a new benchmark of what a $2000 camera can be and Canon need to address it.


----------



## siegsAR (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Don Haines said:


> siegsAR said:
> 
> 
> > There's no way it will use the EF mount. If it did, it will be the first info we'd see.
> ...


We'll see. 
For what its worth I'm all for a native EF mount despite my skepticism.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



The Fat Fish said:


> Add IBIS, make sure the 4K is usable and make it $2000 and it'll be a good camera. There's a new benchmark of what a $2000 camera can be and Canon need to address it.



Interesting idea. There were a few $3000 FF cameras that Canon 'needed to address', and did they? Yes, they did...by selling more FF cameras than Sony.


----------



## 9VIII (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

1/16,000th is an improvement, but using 1/32,000th is handy to have with sunny landscapes.
I might still want to use an ND filter someday but extremely short shutter speeds are great.


----------



## Don Haines (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



siegsAR said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > siegsAR said:
> ...


I'm with you.

I think that these recent rumours, or partial rumours, that are so close to April fools day are more entertainment than substance, but I am looking forward to see what really shakes out of the tree..... interesting times!


----------



## BillB (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



The Fat Fish said:


> Add IBIS, make sure the 4K is usable and make it $2000 and it'll be a good camera. There's a new benchmark of what a $2000 camera can be and Canon need to address it.



Well, that is the way that Sony is betting. Time will tell what the sales look like. Canon might put out a copycat camera, but maybe not. There is a lot of internet buzz about Sony selling a magic toy for $2000 instead of $3000, but $2000 for the camera is only starters, and then there are the lenses etc, not to mention the time and effort that needs to be put into coming up with good photographs and videos. There is a lot of time and money on the line for most buyers, and I don't know how much difference internet buzz is going to make. It's a lot cheaper and easier to post on the internet than it is to bang down some serious money for a camera and learn how to take good photographs or videos. I find myself wondering what the price of used A7III's will be a couple of years from now.


----------



## zim (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Don Haines said:


> siegsAR said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



+1 it's a bit of fun

Really looking forward to what actually gets released this year though and what segment it's aimed at. Will Canon continue with a bottom up approach or will they flip.
In truth I'd actually prefer to see a new 7D level spec M5 with optional battery grip before they go FF.


----------



## Diltiazem (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

I won't consider this fake just because mount is not listed. It would have been easy for the 'faker' to include a mount in the list. 
On the other hand there maybe other reasons for this to be fake.


----------



## Patlezinc (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Adelino said:


> What is the CR rating on this?


0 

The 61 af points is simply impossible...


----------



## Inspired (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

Without auto focus points to match Sony and Eye-AF, for photographers its not worth it.
Give me something to really compete with Sony.


----------



## Inspired (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



siegsAR said:


> There's no way it will use the EF mount. If it did, it will be the first info we'd see.
> 
> The lack of mount info makes this a *little credible, not the other way around.


If it doesn't have the EF mount then can they really compete with Sony, i think not.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Inspired said:


> Without auto focus points to match Sony and Eye-AF, for photographers its not worth it.
> Give me something to really compete with Sony.



Sorry, but Canon doesn't care about you...at all. They're selling more FF ILCs than Sony _now_, so in the only way that matters to the corporate bottom line, they're handily outcompeting Sony. Given that, for which 'photographers' are you speaking, and what fraction of the market does that group represent? Oh, you're speaking for yourself. Got it. That's about as relevant as lipstick on a pig. 

Ps. How do you like your Sony FF MILC? You _do_ have one, right? I sure hope you aren't still using a pathetic, not-worth-it-to-photographers Canon dSLR.


----------



## slclick (Mar 31, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



neuroanatomist said:


> Inspired said:
> 
> 
> > Without auto focus points to match Sony and Eye-AF, for photographers its not worth it.
> ...



I can't imagine AF points being the make or break issue for switching teams. So much more to a camera system then something less than major like that.


----------



## Talys (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



neuroanatomist said:


> Inspired said:
> 
> 
> > Without auto focus points to match Sony and Eye-AF, for photographers its not worth it.
> ...



People who talk like this.....

.... know S____ about Sony FF MILCs, and certainly don't do anything taxing with autofocus.

The Sony autofocus system is composed of two parts: PDAF and Contrast Detection. PDAF works just like the DSLR; Contrast Detection *even with fast f/1.4 native lenses* works just like a T2i in live view, or about equivalent to the joke that is Nikon in live view autofocus.

The PDAF boundaries are quite restrictive. It looks like this (the photo is from an A7R2, but the A7R3's PDAF area is identical):

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/I8ozso4EY8o/maxresdefault.jpg

You can turn it on yourself by going to the AF4 menu, and enabling "Phase Detect Area". 

The reason it's called "Hybrid Autofocus" is that when an object moves beyond that center rectangle, it shifts to Contrast Detect autofocus. If you own a Sony, select single point AF and try it just within the PDAF area; then try it on the point immediately outside the PDAF area, and you'll see a MASSIVE difference, as in autofocus that works, and autofocus that hunts 5 times to acquire lock.

But Sony Hybrid Autofocus is actually MUCH MORE MESSED UP.

Everything that I explained above is for AF-C (continuous). In AF-S (one shot), the camera, at least with several very important lenses like 70-200/2.8, 85/1.4, and 85/1.8 *the freaking camera is always in contrast detect mode*. 

Evidently, this is because some of the fancy features like magnification autofocus only work in contrast detect mode; but to make it explainable, they paired those features to AF-S, and explain that the features only work in AF-S -- without regard to the fact that some times, photographers _don't want continuous autofocus_.

And now, moving to adapted lenses, since people seem to sing songs of praise about these.

If you use an adapted lens, like a Canon 70-200/2.8, with the Metabones V, in Green (basic) mode, you'll be in PDAF most of the time, with many of the advanced autofocus features (like subject tracking or expanded points) disabled. If you switch it to Advanced mode, those features are selectable, but the camera will be in Contrast Detect, all of the time!

Note that anyone who sings songs of praise about the Metabones V must be smoking something really good. The Sigma MC-11 is way better at autofocus in that it doesn't hunt nearly as much, and that's trying 15+ Canon and Sigma lenses. As a bonus, there are several Sigma lenses (when using the Sigma adapter) that get all the features of native Sony lenses other than in camera profiles, and work very well.

There are some other really bizarre design choices too, but it's just too long to get into. Soooooo... TLDR?

The entire autofocus system feels like a beta product when compared to Canon or Nikon, where you pick up the camera and just concentrate on taking photos.


----------



## CanonGrunt (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

Option for C-log 1,2,& 3 with DCI 4k at 60p on duel SD cards... 

Sounds pretty sketchy to me.


----------



## dak723 (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Don Haines said:


> These are partial claimed specs.... it is a rumour of a rumour.... and even if it were true, it is about a prototype, and very few prototypes make it into production. I put no weight on this.



So true.

And yet we will have another 10 pages of comments from folks who will act as if it is true and either shows that Canon sucks or are making the camera they want.


----------



## Talys (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



dak723 said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > These are partial claimed specs.... it is a rumour of a rumour.... and even if it were true, it is about a prototype, and very few prototypes make it into production. I put no weight on this.
> ...




OTOH, CR guy is really good with rumors! Few CR1's turn out to be totally junk, and very few CR2 don't pan out.


----------



## snoke (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

Happy April Fools Day.


----------



## dak723 (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Talys said:


> dak723 said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



Yes, but this is a rumor about a *prototype*. I believe that many months ago their was a rumor that there were 2 or 3 different prototypes under development. So, even if true, there may be a 1 out if 3 chance that this prototype will be the one that eventually turns into a real camera. And even then a prototype is not the final camera and it's specs will change. 

Of course, none of that matters to forum dwellers, does it! ;D


----------



## Don Haines (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



dak723 said:


> Talys said:
> 
> 
> > dak723 said:
> ...



Exactly.... a *prototype*

I work in a research lab, and of all the prototypes that I have worked on over the years, a grand total of 0 have made it into production.... Prototypes are to learn on, to test concepts, or test sub-assemblies....., they are not the final product.


----------



## snoke (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Don Haines said:


> Exactly.... a *prototype*



This rumor April Fools joke. You + dak723 + many = April Fools.

Good laugh, CR! Good laugh


----------



## HarryFilm (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



neuroanatomist said:


> Inspired said:
> 
> 
> > Without auto focus points to match Sony and Eye-AF, for photographers its not worth it.
> ...



===

Chiming in here....I think I will say....I TOLD YOU SO! ...my rumour mill seems to be correct and my Canon Smartphone with the combined large 7D mk2 sensor and Android OS will be shown as ALSO being correct. Keep reading for further confirmations!

And yes we have Sony AND Canon gear! Lots of it...!!!


----------



## Don Haines (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



slclick said:


> I can't imagine AF points being the make or break issue for switching teams. So much more to a camera system then something less than major like that.



The AF system is the most important aspect of a camera system. Nobody cares what the DR is, megapixels, frame rate, lens selection, mount, size, or mirror(or less) technology behind a blurry picture. That's a big one, and if somebody can't get it right for the camera's market, they are *******!

That said, having 87 bazillion AF points is very important for geeks and enthusiasts, but in the real world, most consumers leave it as centre point or shoot in the automatic mode.... and everyone out there selling cameras has that one right.....


----------



## Talys (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Don Haines said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > I can't imagine AF points being the make or break issue for switching teams. So much more to a camera system then something less than major like that.
> ...



Couldn't agree more.

Different people look for different things, though. For example, wildlife types highly value _speed_ and _accuracy_, with high secondary points going to the ability to track. 

Face identification, eye autofocus, subject tracking for video, low light autofocus, flash-assisted autofocus... everyone needs something different, right?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



HarryFilm said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Inspired said:
> ...



Yes, I'm sure your prediction of a physically impossible device is as accurate as all of your other predictions.


----------



## PureClassA (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

C-Log 1, 2 ... wait what?? No way. Pipe dream list. In no way is this list reality. Perhaps 1-2 things might wind up lucky shots, but these are C300 type video specs.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Don Haines said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > I can't imagine AF points being the make or break issue for switching teams. So much more to a camera system then something less than major like that.
> ...



I’d say the lenses are the most important part of a camera system. If you are referring to the camera itself as a system, it’s much harder. With digital cameras, none of it works without a power source (e.g. battery). Without a shutter mechanism (mechanical or otherwise), the thing is pretty useless. Same for the sensor/digitizer. The AF system is certainly important and maybe the biggest differentiator between bodies, but most important aspect? I don’t agree - it’s not even necessary for taking pictures.

I get what you are saying, though, and offer that a number of AF points is not the measure of AF capabilities. Owning both the 5Diii and 1Dx I know this first hand.


----------



## Talys (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



3kramd5 said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > slclick said:
> ...



For me, I use the center point the most (by far). However, I'd love to be able to memorize, like, 4 other AF points and just cycle through them. Most often, the reason I pick another AF point is when I'm doing a portrait (I want the AF point to be near some feature, like an eye). But it happens with things like birds, too, because again, I'm trying to catch the head; or I've composed the bird a little off center on purpose.

Almost always, though, the alternate AF points are above the center and maybe a third to the right or left. It's never extremely far to the right/left, and it's practically never on the lower part of the viewfinder. If I could have just a few memorized, it would just be faster to pick the one I want, and compose/crop around that.

I get what you're saying about the lenses being very important, and in essence, I agree. However, without good autofocus, the number keepers is greatly diminished. The lenses also play a big role in the AF though, as crappy lenses are much less consistent in autofocus, and sometimes pretty slow. Again, it diminishes the nubmer of great shots -- or worse, give you a some shots that are amost amazing, if not for being slightly OOF


----------



## tmc784 (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Canon Rumors said:


> We’ve been receiving a lot of information lately about Canon’s upcoming full frame mirrorless camera, the following information is apparently about one of the prototype camera bodies currently being tested.</p>
> <p><strong>Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Prototype Specifications:</strong></p>
> <ul>
> <li>Look & Feel: large grip with top LCD, very comfortable to hold; dials are very similar to those we found on the EOS 5D Mark IV.</li>
> ...


 How about *IBIS ? and Native EF Mount ?*[/b]


----------



## 3kramd5 (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



tmc784 said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > We’ve been receiving a lot of information lately about Canon’s upcoming full frame mirrorless camera, the following information is apparently about one of the prototype camera bodies currently being tested.</p>
> ...



Holy first post, Batman


----------



## dave hoppus (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

Specs sounds interesting. More relevant than the mount-topic before. 
It sounds more to me, that they focus the build a competitor camera to the Leica Q - shutter speed is the same. ISO would be interesting as well. Waiting for a picture of the back. Think they will use an EVF. 


http://uk.leica-camera.com/Photography/Leica-Q/LEICA-Q?/switchlanguage/to/corposite_eng_gb/135655


----------



## IglooEater (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



3kramd5 said:


> tmc784 said:
> 
> 
> > How about *IBIS ? and Native EF Mount ?*[/b]
> ...



It’s like HarryFilm’s writing style on steroids. Welcome to the forum btw, tmc784!


----------



## zim (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

Naa that would be more like.....

*IBIS ? AND Native [size=36pt]EF MOUNT ?[/size]*


----------



## driver (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

Log2 gave it away, Canon knows it makes no sense to put log2 for 8bit video.


----------



## Woody (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Canon Rumors said:


> Focus control is very similar to EOS 5D Mark IV’s 61-pt AF system.



This one is weird. On the M5, Canon has demonstrated the best way to control DPAF on a MILC is through a touchscreen. It's bizarre that they'll return to the joystick configuration.


----------



## Viggo (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Woody said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > Focus control is very similar to EOS 5D Mark IV’s 61-pt AF system.
> ...



You’ll look weirder sticking your finger in the VF :


----------



## Talys (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Woody said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > Focus control is very similar to EOS 5D Mark IV’s 61-pt AF system.
> ...



I may be in the minority, but I prefer the joystick.

Either way, though, on a body the width of a 5D, it doesn't much make sense to use the touchscreen for focus point selection, because you can't quite reach your thumb over there.


----------



## Ozarker (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

*sigh* In the meantime I'll just keep slogging along with the 5D Mark III I still haven't mastered, the lighting I haven't mastered, and the composition I haven't mastered. *sigh*

All this makes me happy I've decided to stay one or two generations behind as far as bodies go. Maybe even more. I know there are pros who say they have to have the latest to compete, but I can't help but think there are many pros and enthusiasts out there laughing when they read such claims.

Nothing in a new body or lens is going to make me a better "photographer". Sometimes all the weeping and wailing about Canon supposedly not keeping up just starts sounding of irrational hysterics. The tech is advancing rapidly. It isn't Canon or Nikon or Sony that must keep up with each other. Sometimes we've got to step back and just admit that we, ourselves, can't keep up with the tech. That the cameras and the "art" side of things are beyond our own capabilities.

I'm, admittedly, a below average photographer with great tools. The tools are wonderful. What would be even better would be to have the mind to compose and light in a way that wows viewers. I think most of us would have to admit that we can't do that. We just can't. If we could we would. So the hardware spec sheets don't matter so much. It is the spec sheet of our own minds that matters most. One must master that before the hardware spec sheet makes much difference.

I get more excited about new "L" lens rumors.

That said, "Go Canon! Go Rams!!!"


----------



## woodman411 (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



CanonFanBoy said:


> ... I know there are pros who say they have to have the latest to compete, but I can't help but think there are many pros and enthusiasts out there laughing when they read such claims.
> 
> Nothing in a new body or lens is going to make me a better "photographer".



This is the very embodiment of dpreview. They over-emphasize technical specs and yet their sample galleries are amateur level at best.


----------



## Talys (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



woodman411 said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > ... I know there are pros who say they have to have the latest to compete, but I can't help but think there are many pros and enthusiasts out there laughing when they read such claims.
> ...



Photography isn't really an easy hobby. It looks easy and sounds easy (just point it and click the button, right?), but it isn't, and a lot of people who buy a camera are disappointed that their photos on their $1,000 camera kit don't look anything like professional photographs. Far from it... they look worse than their smartphone photos.

A big chunk of that problem of why DSLR photos don't look _even acceptable_ is because they looked ok through the optical viewfinder, but the way the light is captured is... something else. With a mirrorless, that curve can be less painful, because you can see it in preview before you press the shutter, so you're much less likely to totally botch exposure.

It's the same reason (some) people love TTL flashes, versus bouncing off some surface or reflector and manually adjusting exposure. _It's easier_.

But at the end of the day, if you want amazing photographs, you'll need to learn all those skills anyways -- understand light, learn the basics of composition, learn your gear, and learn from mistakes. I think that there is a market for cameras where people want to take decent photographs, and perhaps photography gear enthusiasts, without wanting to engage in the hobby of photography.

To their credit, Sony has just done an amazing job of convincing those people that what they really want is a very expensive full frame camera, something that was pretty much unimaginable a decade ago. "This camera is SO amazing that you won't have to use a flash -- you know, that awful thing that's blowing out all your baby photos!"

That's not to say there isn't goods stuff for pros, though. For example, I've noticed that many professionals or serious enthusiasts who have tried Sony A7R3 say that one the features that they love most is focus magnification with manual focus, and I agree. It's amazingly useful, even if the implementation on Sony is awkward (because you can't grab a focus by wire lens and MF if you're in AF mode, at least not without pressing a button every time).


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



woodman411 said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > ... I know there are pros who say they have to have the latest to compete, but I can't help but think there are many pros and enthusiasts out there laughing when they read such claims.
> ...



It's not that -- many of DPR's writers are not working professional photographers from what I understand. It's effectively a team of enthusiasts and gearheads -- if Engadget or Wired just did cameras (if you will). That said, I believe there are a _few_ pros either there or associated with them, but they certainly don't seem to be the prevailing voice. 

But in fairness to them, DPR often gets 1-2 hours of time with a rig at a pre-release (or day of release) sort of event. So I actually give them some _small_ props for doing their damnedest to getting cards into new bodies and broadcasting what they find. But they're clearly obsessive about sensors and their commentary reflects a wildly imbalanced set of photographic priorities IMHO, so they'll never replace what the Dustins / Carnathans / Cicalas / Shake & Bakes of the photography world do.

The Phoblographer is a similar enthusiast-fueled setup at DPR (Chris Gampat worked at B&H or Adorama I want to say, Anthony's a working boudoir guy out of Portland), but they are quite different in terms of what they do. That site is more about giving visibility to what's out there, the enjoyment of noodling around with a jillion products, etc. They are much more about personal hot takes and sharing their user experience than they are at rendering judgments or giving hyper-granular scores. Chris tends to be more heart-on-sleeve opinionated than biased, IMHO -- passion about gear is a forgivable vice to me, and I appreciate what that site does.

Also recommend SLRLounge, which is (to my knowledge) almost entirely working pros with a very different take on things than either blow by blow reviews or test scores. They care about gear, surely, but they also get into workflow, running a business, working with clients, developing skill sets, etc. As an enthusiast, I've found them to provide an interesting perspective.

- A


----------



## jebrady03 (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

It's so painfully obvious when folks posting here haven't used a Sony A9 or A7RIII (or A7III - but few have).
It's also painfully obvious when someone is anxious over the very notion that something may exist outside of their current setup which would actually serve them better (even if it actually wouldn't).
Here's a CR3 for y'all... Canon will not change their ethos when diving into mirrorless FF. They won't suddenly lead the pack with technology. They won't cram every conceivable feature into the cameras and charge what seems like a crazy-low price for it. They'll also market the benefits of their decision making as best as they possibly can (in other words, they'd never pull a Sony and call something like the A7III "entry level" - which, if you weren't paying attention that's exactly what Sony called it).

My personal belief is that Canon will change the mount for their FF MILC to something like the EF-M mount and they will sing the praises of an adapter as well as the fact that they offer their consumers options. 

Also, based on my personal experience with the M, M5, 8 Canon DSLR (XSi through 5D Mark IV), A7RII, A7RIII, and A9, Canon needs a joystick on their FF MILC. And it needs to function like Sony's where the box moves quickly if the joystick is held down.

Also, those saying $1000 is trivial are right and wrong. It's consumer dependent. I will say that in my switch to Sony, cost wasn't a factor. I bought what I wanted. Others will certainly care.

Finally, if you intend to use a Sony A9, A7RIII, A7III, or Canon FF MILC (assuming it's in the level of the aforementioned Sony's -and I don't believe it will be) like a Canon DSLR, you're doing it wrong. Start fresh. Learn the system. Learn the options. Re-evaluate your lens needs. For example, I was a back-button AF, single point AF guy who relied on a 70-200 f/2.8L IS II during weddings. Now, I alternate between single point flexible AF and wide area AF. I still use a back button for focus but it's for eye AF focus. I don't even own a 70-200 and instead I use the Batis 135 (with a 35, 55, or 85 on the other camera) and because I have AF points all over, I rarely need to crop my images for composition. There are a lot of other differences in the way I shoot now but the last one I will share is that I now take a lot fewer images. I never worry about the focus accuracy of my images whereas before I did, even with extensive afma. I also don't worry about exposure (chimping) either. 

Now, it's quite possible that literally none of the differences that mirrorless offers would be advantageous to YOU. In fact, those differences may hinder you. I'm not one of those people who believes that mirrorless is the solution for everyone. But I also absolutely believe that there are differences and those differences can be important.

Knowing Canon, I could see them releasing a FF MILC in the spirit of the 6D Mark II (truly uninspiring and class-leading basically nowhere) but hopefully, they learned that lesson and bring something respectable or maybe even impressive to market.

Oh, for those who think current generation DPAF is as good as the AF Sony offers, you're delusional. I'm not saying DPAF _can't possibly_ keep up, I'm saying they need to throw a buttload more processing power behind it. I was using the M5 side by side with the A7RIII for the past week (family cruise) and I was so frustrated with the M5 whereas the A7RIII _*just worked*_!

This is way longer than I intended. So I'll sign off 

*Typed on a phone, forgive any typing errors, please


----------



## AvTvM (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

definitely and clearly a fake rumor. 

@CR guy why do you even bother to spread this cr+p? 

If the source was close enough to such a prototype camera to note all the "specs" listed, then they should also have noted what kind of lens mount/lens was on it.


----------



## Ozarker (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Talys said:


> woodman411 said:
> 
> 
> > CanonFanBoy said:
> ...



I don't know about mirrorless leading the way here. I've been shooting in manual and checking myself with "live view" for years and years. Maybe mirrorless does better job. I'd have no idea. 

In my opinion, the camera isn't the weak link. The person pressing the shutter is.

My point was that people place too much emphasis on this or that spec on the sheet while not really even being interested in the mind side of things at all. They want the camera to do it all for them. All of it. When the camera doesn't deliver what their own brain can't figure out then the solution must be the next camera with a better spec sheet.

I've looked at many thousands and thousands of portrait and wedding photos to try and figure out how to light, pose, etc. For all the wailing about how there is nothing revolutionary about the cameras, I see far too many photos that look exactly like all the rest. There are very few artists out there and millions of copycats. No camera is a substitute for genius and creativity.

Can't compete with the pro gear you have? Try taking better pro level photos with some unique qualities. It isn't really the gear that makes one stand out. It is what is produced with the gear. If I were planning on getting married next year I could pretty much flip a coin as to which wedding photographer to pick in a given price range. They are all about the same. Same poses, same ideas, same locations, same lighting... nothing really different to give each their own creative edge. Nothing. It's like looking through the Sears Roebuck catalogue.

The real deal? The truly creative? They make the big bucks. The rest are left fighting over the same biscuit and wondering why their gear can't compete. TRUTH: It Isn't The Gear!

I'm reminded of a post I read on a guitar forum several years ago. Players were all up in arms saying that bar owners were stealing away their livelihoods with karaoke and open mic nights. They couldn't find work anymore. My thought was that if karaoke and open mic is stealing your work, then your work just isn't that good. The bar owners are trying to fill the bar to make money. If you ain't bringing in the crowds with your playing and singing... you ain't no got dang good! Especially when all you sing are somebody else's songs. It is obvious. Why should they pay you when the free stuff is more entertaining and sells more drinks?

When I hear how soccer moms giving away $35 sessions and doing weddings for $150 are a cancer on the industry, all I can say is, "You just ain't no good!" You are getting beaten by the very people you say don't know what they are doing. Why should people pay you when Jill and her 450D is just as good and does it for free? Because you happen to exist so they owe you?

Same thing in this Canon vs Sony vs Nikon crap. If a spec sheet is gonna make you so upset that you've got to jump ship because you'll just not be able to compete otherwise... then you probably just ain't no good to begin with. If your selling point is, "I have a better camera than so and so." Instead of, "Here's my portfolio and the reason why you should pick me." Then you have a dire problem. You just ain't no good! If what you are shooting with, rather than what your output is, is most important to your clients... then you have to educate them. They have no idea what you should be shooting with. Even when they ask for it. Show them your work. If that doesn't sell you, but the camera body does... Then you just ain't no good!

Most of us have far better gear than our capabilities deserve. I know I do.

If a person looks at his own work and says, "This isn't a me problem, it's a tech problem..." Then that person just ain't no got dang good! They should try cooking and quit lying to themselves.


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



jebrady03 said:


> *Typed on a phone



Wow! That's quite a lift to do on a phone.

- A


----------



## Talys (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



CanonFanBoy said:


> TRUTH: It Isn't The Gear!
> ...
> Most of us have far better gear than our capabilities deserve. I know I do.
> 
> If a person looks at his own work and says, "This isn't a me problem, it's a tech problem..." Then that person just ain't no got dang good! Try cooking and quit lying to yourself.



I couldn't agree more.

All I was driving at is that there's a market for people who aren't really interested in the work required to improve their capabilities, who want the best possible better-than-smartphone picture, or, worse, the best possible theoretical picture that they'll never take. 

It all reminds me of a Gizmodo article on the A7RII when it first came out. I remember the reviewer crowing about it, saying that the camera was like cheating, because every photo that came out of it was gorgeous no matter what he did. Then, looking at the sample gallery, I recall thinking, "Yes, every photo you've taken is a perfect example of how no amount of technology can fix a lame photograph."


----------



## Ozarker (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Talys said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > TRUTH: It Isn't The Gear!
> ...



I think we are on the same wavelength. I hope you didn't think I was directing anything at all towards you. I didn't mean to give that impression if I did.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Apr 1, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Talys said:


> Most of us have far better gear than our capabilities deserve.



Personally, I tend to upgrade cameras to either open new possibilities (like when I went from 40D to 5D2; the latter opened up 135-format), or when a new one will likely improve my user experience (like when I went from 5D2 to 5D3, and 5D3 to 1Dx).


----------



## reef58 (Apr 2, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

Gear is fun, but Arnold Newman's photographs remain unmatched for the most part with the tech being large format film.


----------



## Talys (Apr 2, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



CanonFanBoy said:


> Talys said:
> 
> 
> > CanonFanBoy said:
> ...



I believe that we have very similar philosophies where it comes to photography and I didn't read anything as being directed at me.


----------



## Woody (Apr 2, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Talys said:


> ... It's the same reason (some) people love TTL flashes, versus bouncing off some surface or reflector and manually adjusting exposure. _It's easier_.
> 
> ... For example, I've noticed that many professionals or serious enthusiasts who have tried Sony A7R3 say that one the features that they love most is focus magnification with manual focus, and I agree.



Why bother with manual focus when there's autofocus which makes the job easier? Yes, there are situations when manual focusing is needed, but that is not something the majority needs, unlike nailing the right exposure.

Also, all DSLRs can do live view these days... So nailing scenes with tricky exposure or making the manual focus job easier can both be accomplished by DSLRs too. At least, that's why I got myself the 77D. It offers an optical viewfinder which doesn't draw precious battery power... and I can activate live view when there's a need. The way I see it, we get the best of both worlds.


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 2, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Woody said:


> Why bother with manual focus when there's autofocus which makes the job easier? Yes, there are situations when manual focusing is needed, but that is not something the majority needs, unlike nailing the right exposure.
> 
> Also, all DSLRs can do live view these days... So nailing scenes with tricky exposure or making the manual focus job easier can both be accomplished by DSLRs too. At least, that's why I got myself the 77D. It offers an optical viewfinder which doesn't draw precious battery power... and I can activate live view when there's a need. The way I see it, we get the best of both worlds.



Why mirrorless intrigues me (though I still shoot everything on my 5D3):

Unless you own a 1-seres camera (or a 7D2, I think?), no latest model of Canon SLR offers manual focusing screens any more. So if I want to try some exciting Zeiss / Samyang / rando kickstarter company manual lens while shooting handheld, I'm SOL. An EVF and decently implemented peaking setup solves that for me. LiveView is a simple fail here as I'm referring to 50 primes, 85 primes, 135 primes, etc. shot at large apertures with little latitude for focusing error. I'm not going to try that with LiveView handheld -- no way.

So I've heard this 'best of both worlds' argument with SLRs before, and I think it's highly conditional. LiveView + handheld + 5x/10x focusing + large aperture shooting = a hot mess, IMHO. I overwhelmingly prefer to do all that through the viewfinder, but as Canon doesn't want to allow us to do that anymore in the 5D line, I will have to wait for FF mirrorless before I give those lenses a go.

- A


----------



## Talys (Apr 2, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Woody said:


> Talys said:
> 
> 
> > ... It's the same reason (some) people love TTL flashes, versus bouncing off some surface or reflector and manually adjusting exposure. _It's easier_.
> ...



Don't knock magnified manual focus until you've tried it. When I was using the A7R3, I programmed the button on the lens barrel to manual focus while pressed, and the body to automatically go into 6.3x zoom during MF. I would use back button (only) continuous autofocus. 

So what I'd do is autofocus on my subject, then immediately press the lens barrel button. The focus point then goes into 6.3x maginfication, and I could use the manual focus ring to slightly adjust it. As soon as I released, it would bounce back into 1x magnification.

The issue isn't really, "Is autofocus accurate", but more so, often, the camera is autofocusing on slightly the wrong feature, especially on wide open, large aperture lenses like 70-200/2.8, but even sometimes on apertures up to 5.6. To take the simplest example, if I'm photographing a duck that's facing me, there could be a huge difference between focusing on the head of the duck and the duck's body.

To flip it around, though, on a Canon, using Spot AF, I can actually get the duck's head at least 3/4 of the time. Using an A7R3, God only knows what I'll get, because the smallest spot focus is quite large; and the super fine tune autofocus only uses Contrast Detect AF and is so slow that the duck is long gone. So, it's a more valuable tool on the Sony because the spot AF has less precision. But still, it is a great feature.

When I'm taking bird portraits on a tripod with a Canon, I will almost always flip it to live view, magnify, and make sure that I'm focusing on the right part of the bird (or just to take AF out of the equation). There's no point in getting all setup just to have soft eyes. But realistically, live view mangify handheld with even the 100-400LII is pretty hard to do. In both cases, it's a lost cause on moving objects.

Don't get me wrong, though. I'm a huge fan of the optical viewfinder, and I wouldn't trade my pentaprism for an EVF, even with focus magnification. The (HUGE) battery power draw that you cite is one factor, the quality of the viewfinder in dim light is another. A third is the "blackout" -- it isn't powered when it's not against your eye, which means that as you draw your camera close, the viewfinder isn't showing anything until you're pressed right up to it. 

Related, the PDAF autofocus from the Canon or Nikon is also much quicker to acquire focus than Sony's Hybrid AF. I don't know exactly why that is, since Sony uses PDAF too, so it may not have anything to do with EVF/OVF.




ahsanford said:


> Why mirrorless intrigues me (though I still shoot everything on my 5D3):
> 
> Unless you own a 1-seres camera (or a 7D2, I think?), no latest model of Canon SLR offers manual focusing screens any more. So if I want to try some exciting Zeiss / Samyang / rando kickstarter company manual lens while shooting handheld, I'm SOL. An EVF and decently implemented peaking setup solves that for me. LiveView is a simple fail here as I'm referring to 50 primes, 85 primes, 135 primes, etc. shot at large apertures with little latitude for focusing error. I'm not going to try that with LiveView handheld -- no way.



Exactly that. Shallow depth of field makes focus very important, and now that we don't have MF screens, getting MF right can be hard. It can look perfect in the VF at 1x; it might even look good in preview on the LCD. Then, in post, you find out, it's slightly soft because the AF point was just off.

It's very nice in macro, too.


----------



## crashpc (Apr 2, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

Wow, Neuro knows how to be bitter from time to time....

Anyway, to lighten up, I bring you some fun.
This is what happens when Canon enters the MILC market with their FF:


----------



## Chilts (Apr 2, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

There is a lot of discussion about which lenses will be used for this camera, but every photograph I've seen shows it with an EF L series lens. Isn't this a clue?


----------



## crashpc (Apr 2, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

I didn´t see any photograph of the new M MILC prototype. Am I missing something?


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## canonnews (Apr 2, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Chilts said:


> There is a lot of discussion about which lenses will be used for this camera, but every photograph I've seen shows it with an EF L series lens. Isn't this a clue?



it's a photoshop mockup from years past, we use it because it's well, tradition


----------



## alienman (Apr 2, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

Thank you Canon! This is what I've been wanting to see!


----------



## bwud (Apr 2, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Talys said:


> Don't knock magnified manual focus until you've tried it. When I was using the A7R3, I programmed the button on the lens barrel to manual focus while pressed, and the body to automatically go into 6.3x zoom during MF. I would use back button (only) continuous autofocus.
> 
> So what I'd do is autofocus on my subject, then immediately press the lens barrel button. The focus point then goes into 6.3x maginfication, and I could use the manual focus ring to slightly adjust it. As soon as I released, it would bounce back into 1x magnification.



Did you find this worked better than DMF mode (which I think willl do the same without the button press)? Maybe it doesn’t operate with AF removed from the shutter release (that isn’t clear from the help guide).

Personally I use the AEL button for Eye-AF, I center press the joystick for AF ON (nice because I don’t have to move my thumb to another location), and I just have C2 mapped to toggle MF, and C1 mapped to focus magnify. I didn’t like the automatic focus magnify. The lens button is an interesting idea for MF toggle. I have been mostly avoiding that button for muscle memory purposes since not all the lenses I use have it, but the ones which do not (e.g. canon 16-35 f/4) are mechanical so don’t need to be toggled, so there’s little harm.



Talys said:


> To flip it around, though, on a Canon, using Spot AF, I can actually get the duck's head at least 3/4 of the time. Using an A7R3, God only knows what I'll get, because the smallest spot focus is quite large



Is there something which describes the size of the AF spots on the a7? Maybe a description of the CFA from which to glean info? I don’t think they’re using half-masked pixels anymore, but there should be some way to know.

I’ve seen photos of the PDAF unit for my 5Diii, and those sensors are quite large (especially relative to the boxes used to select them), but I have no idea how big the pixel groups used for AF are in my a7riii.


----------



## ethanz (Apr 2, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



crashpc said:


> Wow, Neuro knows how to be bitter from time to time....
> 
> Anyway, to lighten up, I bring you some fun.
> This is what happens when Canon enters the MILC market with their FF:



Nice picture.


----------



## Talys (Apr 2, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



bwud said:


> Did you find this worked better than DMF mode (which I think willl do the same without the button press)? Maybe it doesn’t operate with AF removed from the shutter release (that isn’t clear from the help guide).



I find that DMF is a cruel joke, like many features that Sony builds. "Direct Manual Focus" sounds fantastic. 

It sounds like the only downside is that it's one-shot mode (AF-S), but the problem is.... AF-S is Contrast Detect Autofocus, at least on the native 70-200/2.8, 85/1.4 and 85/1.8. Every single time you focus, it will do a back-and-forth hunt wobble (just google it... I did, because I was going out of my mind thinking I had gone crazy). The native 100-400 doesn't seem to suffer from the wobble; I don't know if it's actually running in CDAF or PDAF in AF-S.

It isn't too bad with the lens barrel button to engage manual focus while depressed, because on the lenses I wanted to use it for, the button was situated just behind the focus ring (and on some models, you get 3 identical buttons). 




bwud said:


> Personally I use the AEL button for Eye-AF, I center press the joystick for AF ON (nice because I don’t have to move my thumb to another location), and I just have C2 mapped to toggle MF, and C1 mapped to focus magnify. I didn’t like the automatic focus magnify. The lens button is an interesting idea for MF toggle. I have been mostly avoiding that button for muscle memory purposes since not all the lenses I use have it, but the ones which do not (e.g. canon 16-35 f/4) are mechanical so don’t need to be toggled, so there’s little harm.



I experimented with this a whole bunch, and I originally didn't like automatic focus magnify, too. For some time, I programmed it to the AEL button (since Eye AF doesn't work on birds anyways ). I kind of changed my mind after using it some, although partly, it was because I found that the MF ring takes too large a rotation on the 100-400 focus by wire lens to be very useful except to fine-tune anyhow.

A nice feature of the Sony is that the auto focus magnify is saved with each custom mode, so you can have C1 auto focus magnify, and C2 not.


----------



## bwud (Apr 2, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

Re: cruel joke  ;D . I just looked at it as pointless for how I typically shoot, but if the implementation sucks, it’s even worse than useless.


That distinction on c1 and c2 is not a bad idea!


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## ahsanford (Apr 2, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Talys said:


> It sounds like the only downside is that it's one-shot mode (AF-S), but the problem is.... AF-S is Contrast Detect Autofocus, at least on the native 70-200/2.8, 85/1.4 and 85/1.8. Every single time you focus, it will do a back-and-forth hunt wobble (just google it... I did, because I was going out of my mind thinking I had gone crazy). The native 100-400 doesn't seem to suffer from the wobble; I don't know if it's actually running in CDAF or PDAF in AF-S.



How much of this new AF landscape (PDAF, CDAF, different modes with weird little wrinkles like this, variable AF experience as a function of lens, etc.) will we be burdened with as Canon users? 

Is this more a culmination of bad decisions Sony made for the sake of time-to-market or expanded older lens compatibility, or are Canonites going to be wading into the same soup of 'it's technical', YMMV as a function of use cases and lenses, etc.?

Or has Canon _always_ been 'it's technical' but they've just better implemented it such that we don't think about it?

- A


----------



## 3kramd5 (Apr 2, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



ahsanford said:


> Talys said:
> 
> 
> > It sounds like the only downside is that it's one-shot mode (AF-S), but the problem is.... AF-S is Contrast Detect Autofocus, at least on the native 70-200/2.8, 85/1.4 and 85/1.8. Every single time you focus, it will do a back-and-forth hunt wobble (just google it... I did, because I was going out of my mind thinking I had gone crazy). The native 100-400 doesn't seem to suffer from the wobble; I don't know if it's actually running in CDAF or PDAF in AF-S.
> ...



I don’t have any DPAF cameras, but how they operate in live view is likely a good indicator of how a mirrorless camera will. Is it a mix of PDAF for initial acquisition plus CDAF for fine tuning?


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 2, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



3kramd5 said:


> I don’t have any DPAF cameras, but how they operate in live view is likely a good indicator of how a mirrorless camera will. Is it a mix of PDAF for initial acquisition plus CDAF for fine tuning?



It just occurred to me that I could use my shiny new CPS membership to try out gear other than lenses. (Rent bodies? _What?!_ Who'd have thunk it?)

I would give the M5 a go to get a taste for what the FF EVF/DPAF future will be like with my L lenses... but the M5 isn't on the eval list. :-[

- A


----------



## neuroanatomist (Apr 2, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



ahsanford said:


> How much of this new AF landscape (PDAF, CDAF, different modes with weird little wrinkles like this, *variable AF experience as a function of lens*, etc.) will we be burdened with as Canon users?



We're not already burdened?

[quote author=Canon]The number of usable AF points on 61-point AF System will differ depending on the lens. The lenses are classified into 9 groups from A to I. Check below link for which group your lens belongs to. (When using a lens from Group F to H, fewer AF points will be usable)
http://www.canon.com.hk/en/product/catalog/getProductTag.do?tagID=4672[/quote]


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 2, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



neuroanatomist said:


> We're not already burdened?



Was waiting for that from you.  (Quote from Canon, cute.)

I'm an overwhelmingly latter day design lens user + one shot AF + single shot (no burst) user.

So my AF world is super simple: how wide is my spread of AF points, how do I set my zones / clusters, how accurate/consistent/reliable is it, how fast does this lens get the job done... and where is the menu option to smash this STM lens with a hammer because it missed the shot and is the soulless husk of what I want?

- A


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## Uneternal (Apr 2, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

If you know Canon from the past, you know that there is no way that this information is correct.

This is a wish list of somebody. I am 1000% sure this is not going to happen.
Here are my predicted specs:

- Definitely no articulating screen (cause they save this for the next model)
- C-Log hahaha nice but no way, same goes for dual slots
- Same sensor like 5D4 - maybe but with 24-26 megapixels instead of 30
- 1/4000 max. shutter - 1/200 xsync
- 4K 30p / FHD 60p
- Frame rate: 6 fps


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## 3kramd5 (Apr 2, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Uneternal said:


> If you know Canon from the past, you know that there is no way that this information is correct.
> 
> This is a wish list of somebody. I am 1000% sure this is not going to happen.
> Here are my predicted specs:
> ...



Except canon does market analysis and if their analysis convinces then they will be more profitable with a spec sheet warrior, that’s where they’ll go.

^ not a prediction


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## j-nord (Apr 2, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

It doesn't matter what Canon does with this camera, I know it won't be compelling enough to upgrade/downgrade from a 5DSR. I am also happy to let all the first movers beta test the first gen for me ;D


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## scyrene (Apr 2, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



ahsanford said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > We're not already burdened?
> ...



Out of interest, why don't you use burst? If nailing fine focus is an issue, it adds a lot of extra shots, of which one might be perfect. I take two or three shots minimum of absolutely any subject (and a lot more of a tricky or special subject), partly to account for slight variation and imperfection in the position of the focal plane.


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## ahsanford (Apr 2, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



scyrene said:


> Out of interest, why don't you use burst? If nailing fine focus is an issue, it adds a lot of extra shots, of which one might be perfect. I take two or three shots minimum of absolutely any subject (and a lot more of a tricky or special subject), partly to account for slight variation and imperfection in the position of the focal plane.



I wanted to say something smart about being a purist, not needing lots of frames to do the job, the spirit of photography and what not.

...but the truth is that I just don't like wading through all the files. 

Also, for what I shoot -- largely my life, family, travels, etc. I personally find that bursting is a move that ruffles my subjects a bit. Unless I'm on a tripod shooting landscapes those precious few times a year, my mantra is to stick and move, and burst / chimping / etc. goes against that grain.

(Nothing wrong with bursting, I just don't need it like others here do.)

- A


----------



## 3kramd5 (Apr 2, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



scyrene said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



I can’t think of a time when my shots from the middle or end of a burst were in better focus than the one at the beginning. Composition, sure. Focus? No. Also, many (most) cameras lock focus in burst mode.


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## stevelee (Apr 2, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



ahsanford said:


> ...but the truth is that I just don't like wading through all the files.
> . . .
> (Nothing wrong with bursting, I just don't need it like others here do.)



I've never tried burst mode. It has never occurred to me to use it when I'm shooting. That is unless you count the automatic exposure bracketing, where three shots are fired.

I can imagine that it could be useful where action is happening too fast to choose the optimum time to push the shutter button, sports and BIF, which I don't do. (My annual sports videos are of after-hours pick-up basketball games at camp in the summers, but rarely any stills.) And I figure that with my luck, the optimum time would be in the 1/12 sec. after one of the shots. (I do know a guy who does great sports photography for a variety of colleges in the region. I have asked him a time or two about how he gets such great color in less than optimum settings, but it has never occurred to me to ask him about his use of burst mode.)

So those of you who regularly use burst mode for other reasons, are there situations that you think it might be useful for me to try burst mode other than just to see if the camera is working?


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 2, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



stevelee said:


> So those of you who regularly use burst mode for other reasons, are there situations that you think it might be useful for me to try burst mode other than just to see if the camera is working?



Sure, there's a bunch of reasons:

1) If you are shooting indoors on a body that doesn't have anti-flicker, I'd guessing you'd be able to brute force through the problem with redundant frames that are unaffected.

2) Canon's flagship 50 prime's AF is a finicky diva that you can't trust wider than f/2. Also possibly the Sigma 50 Art for the same reason, but I've never tried it.

3) Children/pets and that whole 'they tend to move' thing.

4) When you really want to nail a very specific moment and you aren't sure when the moment is going to be (doesn't have to be sports/action, it could be a reaction to something, a surprise, etc.).

(Again, I rarely use burst, but I'm sure this forum can conjure up a boatload of other uses.)

- A


----------



## archiea (Apr 2, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

Could this be a post for april fools?

I got taken with the fuji x-t3 april fools. This came out a day before.... Just saying... 

"Trust No One"


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 2, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



archiea said:


> Could this be a post for april fools?
> 
> I got taken with the fuji x-t3 april fools. This came out a day before.... Just saying...
> 
> "Trust No One"



Sure, but why go halfway with an iffy/unbelievable spec list when the rest of the world's photographic pranksters are offering so much more?

- A


----------



## stevelee (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



ahsanford said:


> Sure, there's a bunch of reasons:



Thanks. Many of those sound like situations in which I'd trust my decades of practice in anticipating the peak of the action over some random sample. But I'll try to keep an open mind and at least learn how to turn on burst mode in case I ever am in a situation where I want to try it.

I think my 6D2 has an anti-flicker option, but I don't know if that kicks in automatically by default. There again, something I should look up in case it is a problem.


----------



## Don Haines (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



stevelee said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Sure, there's a bunch of reasons:
> ...


The 6D2 has anti flicker.... every Canon DSLR (except rebels, I am not sure there) since the 7D2 has it. You have to turn it on.


----------



## Talys (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Don Haines said:


> stevelee said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



The anti flicker on Canon is actually really good, too. The anti flicker on Sony, not so much. But few people make a camera buying decision on anti flicker.


----------



## Talys (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



ahsanford said:


> How much of this new AF landscape (PDAF, CDAF, different modes with weird little wrinkles like this, variable AF experience as a function of lens, etc.) will we be burdened with as Canon users?
> 
> Is this more a culmination of bad decisions Sony made for the sake of time-to-market or expanded older lens compatibility, or are Canonites going to be wading into the same soup of 'it's technical', YMMV as a function of use cases and lenses, etc.?
> 
> ...



This is purely speculation, but in other markets like gaming consoles and cell phones, Sony and their competitors are richly rewarded for pushing out products as quickly as technology permits, even at the hazard of core functionality being very unstable, with some nebulous fix to fix it in the future. The product live cycles are very short, and typically, a new successor or iteration comes out before the original is even a fully stable product.

Is this the future of camera bodies? I sure hope not -- if I jumped on the Sony FF mirrorless wagon on Day 1, I'd have purchased an A7R, and listening to all the reviewers, I would have jumped on to an A7RII, because heck anyone who likes the A7R will love the II. Then with A7R3, I'd have pounced on that for the same reason.

Then, what, 6 years later, I'd have spent $9,000 to have what _still_ contains a lot of features that feel incomplete. For that I could have purchased a 1DXII, and gotten way more mileage out of it.

I _like_ that there are very few features on Canon cameras that feel haphazardly bolted on, awkward to use, or seemingly unfinished. I mean, the very first iteration of DPAF was knock your socks off awesome. On the other hand, I do feel the pain of sometimes having to wait _years_ to get some features into pro bodies. 5D, I am still waiting for a display that moves before I buy one, LOL.



3kramd5 said:


> I don’t have any DPAF cameras, but how they operate in live view is likely a good indicator of how a mirrorless camera will. Is it a mix of PDAF for initial acquisition plus CDAF for fine tuning?



I think that live view and EVF shooting on Canon cameras is 100% Dual Pixel Autofocus. There is no PDAF and I don't think Canon uses contrast detect on DPAF bodies. One reason that I think this is that the Sigma 150-600 on its current firmware + Canon 1.4TC III will crash PDAF (and by crash, I mean camera error code forcing power down). However, it will work flawlessly on any Dual Pixel setup, whether live view or M5.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Talys said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > I don’t have any DPAF cameras, but how they operate in live view is likely a good indicator of how a mirrorless camera will. Is it a mix of PDAF for initial acquisition plus CDAF for fine tuning?
> ...



Of course there is PDAF, that’s what DPAF is doing.

What I meant is: does is rely entirely on phase detection from the DPAF system, or is there some refinement, or a backup for when phase fails? The sigma functionality may be revealing, but it could also just be buggy firmware.


----------



## stevelee (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Don Haines said:


> The 6D2 has anti flicker.... every Canon DSLR (except rebels, I am not sure there) since the 7D2 has it. You have to turn it on.



Thanks. Are there common light sources that I'm liable to encounter for which this is a problem other than fluorescents?


----------



## Talys (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



3kramd5 said:


> What I meant is: does is rely entirely on phase detection from the DPAF system, or is there some refinement, or a backup for when phase fails? The sigma functionality may be revealing, but it could also just be buggy firmware.



Yes, I'm sorry. I am conflating three different PDAF implementations -

1. The dedicated autofocus sensor below the mirror on Canon/Nikon DSLRs, that's very fast and accurate.

2. Dual Pixel autofocus, which uses every pixel from the main CMOS sensor for phase detection for the purpose of autofocus. 

3. On-sensor PDAF (like Sony's), which, I think, picks the brightest area of the selected AF zone and uses some phase detection technology to autofocus.


Now, when I think about it, I think you're right about Canon dual pixel AF: PDAF is used in conjunction with contrast detection for precise autofocus. I could be mistaken, though. It's been a really long time since I read about DPAF, and it's a step more nerd in the engineering details than I'm usually interested in retaining 




stevelee said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > The 6D2 has anti flicker.... every Canon DSLR (except rebels, I am not sure there) since the 7D2 has it. You have to turn it on.
> ...



They might be fluorescents of some kind, but lots of sports arenas have lights of some sort that are a problem. Some older, non-LED outdoor street lamps, too. Don't know what the technology of lighting is, but it's fixed by turning on anti-flicker.


----------



## Ozarker (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Talys said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > stevelee said:
> ...



If Canon didn't have anti-flicker... 300 people on this forum would drown themselves swimming to Sony Island.  Well, they wouldn't actually jump. They'd just tell us over and over again that they are going to jump.


----------



## AvTvM (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



neuroanatomist said:


> We're not already burdened?
> [quote author=Canon]The number of usable AF points on 61-point AF System will differ depending on the lens. The lenses are classified into 9 groups from A to I. Check below link for which group your lens belongs to. (When using a lens from Group F to H, fewer AF points will be usable)
> http://www.canon.com.hk/en/product/catalog/getProductTag.do?tagID=4672


[/quote]


1. ALL EF lenses in existence today will be LEGACY the very day Canon FF MILC appear. 
2. Irrespective of the lens mount on those Canon MILCs ... even if it were a "traditional" EF mount. 
3. Legacy EF glass will perform on Canon MILCs as it does on mirrorslappers in LiveView mode. At best. 
4. Only possible exceptions MAY be EF glass a) with STM AF drive b) with Nano-USM c) very recent EF glass that MAY have chip/firmware in them to allow upgrading to MILC AF systems and other lens-mount-protocol subtleties

No issue for me nor for Canon ... new EF-X lens sales galore. For many years to come.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



AvTvM said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > We're not already burdened?
> ...




1. ALL EF lenses in existence today will be LEGACY the very day Canon FF MILC appear. 
2. Irrespective of the lens mount on those Canon MILCs ... even if it were a "traditional" EF mount. 
3. Legacy EF glass will perform on Canon MILCs as it does on mirrorslappers in LiveView mode. At best. 
4. Only possible exceptions MAY be EF glass a) with STM AF drive b) with Nano-USM c) very recent EF glass that MAY have chip/firmware in them to allow upgrading to MILC AF systems and other lens-mount-protocol subtleties

No issue for me nor for Canon ... new EF-X lens sales galore. For many years to come. 
[/quote]

dSLRs using dedicated PDAF sensors still focus faster than MILCs. The 'legacy' lenses aren't the bottleneck. That dubious honor goes to the MILCs. 

Some people don't like sacrificing performance (whereas you'd sacrifice performance along with a dozen baby goats and your grandmother for a miniature Canon FF MILC with a new mount for tiny, slow lenses).


----------



## scyrene (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



ahsanford said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > Out of interest, why don't you use burst? If nailing fine focus is an issue, it adds a lot of extra shots, of which one might be perfect. I take two or three shots minimum of absolutely any subject (and a lot more of a tricky or special subject), partly to account for slight variation and imperfection in the position of the focal plane.
> ...



Thanks for the answer!


----------



## scyrene (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



3kramd5 said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > Out of interest, why don't you use burst? If nailing fine focus is an issue, it adds a lot of extra shots, of which one might be perfect. I take two or three shots minimum of absolutely any subject (and a lot more of a tricky or special subject), partly to account for slight variation and imperfection in the position of the focal plane.
> ...



Well my experience is that, in each burst, different shots can vary subtly by focus. Whether it's the AF itself, or that as I almost always shoot handheld, my own position is varying slightly, I don't know. But whatever the reason, I find burst shooting helps mitigate this. And I actually rather enjoy going through all the shots


----------



## chrysoberyl (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



scyrene said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > scyrene said:
> ...



When shooting in burst mode with my 80D + Sigma 135 ART, I find a lot of focus variation.


----------



## stevelee (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Talys said:


> stevelee said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



My annual sports video project is in an arena. The color is always a problem because they don’t turn on the TV lights. There is plenty of light, but the light is not a good approximation of white and not much subject to correction in editing. (Missing frequencies I assume.) I use whatever is my newest camera, in part to learn how to use it and practice with it, especially when I’ve just got it and plan to travel with it soon. So over the years, I’ve shot these summer after-hours pick-up basketball games with S95, T3i, S120, 4K on iPhone 6S, and last year the G7X II. I’ve not recognized any flicker effect with any of them. I’m assuming that I won’t need to use antiflicker when I try this June with the 6D2 and the STM kit lens. I do plan to try shooting a piece of paper or a gray card under the lights to make a custom white balance. I might play around with the autofocus. In the past, I’ve just relied on the hyperfocal distance to cover it.


----------



## AvTvM (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



neuroanatomist said:


> Some people don't like sacrificing performance (whereas you'd sacrifice performance along with a dozen baby goats and your grandmother for a miniature Canon FF MILC with a new mount for tiny, slow lenses).



actually yes i would. Just make that 2 dozen baby goats, since both my grandmothers are already "traded-in". ;D

And yes, for a Sony RX1R -II sized MILC + matching lenses I would happily give up a lot of the "performance" so important to some around here. My needs and wants are much more humble. Don't do BIF, dont do sports, dont do astro, rarely do any "long tele stuff". So I'll be perfectly fine with 
* 4-6 fps and an AF system to handle that ... "really right" 
* 24-30 MP on FF sensor with excellent base IQ / DR and really clean RAWs all the way to ISO 6400 
* a few small, decent IQ (!) f/2.8 primes and f/4 zooms are fast enough for me 
* video capture capability not needed, much less 4k or 8k or zebras 
* manual focusing capability not needed [provided AF system is "really right"]
* monofunctional control points, top-LCD or retro looks also not needed (bye bye Fuji!) 
* battery life 500 shots would be nice ... but can get by on 200 + 2 spare batteries when needed as well ... e.g. EOS M Mk. I ;D

However, i'd love to have it totally silent and 100% vibration free. Plus absolutely "best in class" EVF ["Retina" or 4k welcome] and camera to be really responsive/snappy .. always hate lags and waits.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



3kramd5 said:


> I can’t think of a time when my shots from the middle or end of a burst were in better focus than the one at the beginning. Composition, sure. Focus? No. Also, many (most) cameras lock focus in burst mode.



I'm not sure your last statement is true. My 1D X refocuses between frames of a burst. So did my 7D. I think that most _mirrorless_ cameras do lock focus at the first frame of a burst. 




scyrene said:


> Well my experience is that, in each burst, different shots can vary subtly by focus. Whether it's the AF itself, or that as I almost always shoot handheld, my own position is varying slightly, I don't know. But whatever the reason, I find burst shooting helps mitigate this. And I actually rather enjoy going through all the shots



+1

I'll add two observations – one is that I have a suspicion (admittedly based on anecdotal observations and not much empirical evidence) that the AF system alternates/switches the sensor line(s) used to determine the phase difference between shots of a burst, when similar phase differences are detected with multiple lines. As I've stated before, the actual phase AF point is larger than the box representation in the viewfinder, and it's not infrequent that an area under the AF point has more than one properly oriented feature. An old example is shown below, two successive shots out of a burst witht he 7D and 135/2L at f/2. I superimposed part of the AF array and a reduced version of the AF sensor's central cluster (it's really several AF points, not one, I just used it to suggest the orientations and larger-than-the-box concept). Out of that burst of ~10 shots, the focus alternated between slightly forward and slightly back, reproducibly F-B-F-B-etc for the whole burst. That seems non-random, but it might just be stochastic.

The other observation has nothing to do with AF, per se. I have had some friends state that they shoot bursts because the first shot or two are usually out of focus, but then the focus system 'settles down'. I ask if they're using IS/VR/VC lenses and the answer in those cases has always been yes, so I explain that it's not the AF system that needs to settle, but rather the IS system that needs up to 1/2 s to become fully effective (and during IS startup, it can actually add more blur than just handholding would produce).


----------



## 3kramd5 (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



neuroanatomist said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > I can’t think of a time when my shots from the middle or end of a burst were in better focus than the one at the beginning. Composition, sure. Focus? No. Also, many (most) cameras lock focus in burst mode.
> ...



It indeed might not be correct.

I guess there is some nuance to “burst.” I was considering max framerate. My 1Dx locks the mirror up in that situation, and I recall issues getting max framerate with my 5Diii with continuous AF.

I strike the (most) from the post.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



3kramd5 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > 3kramd5 said:
> ...



At the super high-speed 14 fps, there is no AF between frames, along with a host of other restrictions (the mirror is locked up, shots are saved in jpg only, caveats around ISO and aperture settings etc.). Personally, I've never bothered with 14 fps. But at the regular max burst of 12 fps, the 1D X focuses between each frame of the burst. 

https://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2013/eos1dx_high_speed_shooting.htmlp

Even the Rebel/xxxD cameras focus between frames in AI Servo AF. Nikon dSLRs focus between frames in AF-C. The EOS M mirrorless cameras also focus between frames of a burst (although the earlier ones only did so with EF-M lenses). So I'd say strike both (most) _and_ 'many' from your post, and go with 'some' (at best) or 'a few'. Or just eliminate the phrase, it's not really helping your case.


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



neuroanatomist said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > I can’t think of a time when my shots from the middle or end of a burst were in better focus than the one at the beginning. Composition, sure. Focus? No. Also, many (most) cameras lock focus in burst mode.
> ...



This varies depending on the age of the body: 

A7 first gen = 100% as you put it. 

A7 second gen, they started to get into continuous AF but if memory serves it was laden with all sorts of strings and conditions depending on the lens's max aperture and if you wanted RAW files, etc. Reading the manuals on this felt like reading the instructions to a complicated board game.

3rd gen feels more like proper continuous AF as far as fine print goes (i.e. it's less fine-print-y and continuous AF as we know it will function), but I'm sure as Talys has outlined in other posts that that it's full of odd conditions and terms you need to navigate (CDAF vs. PDAF, various modes, etc.).

So Sony is trending in the right direction on continuous AF. Good thing they asked their users to underwrite three generations of body offerings to work out all the kinks to get there. ;D

- A


----------



## 3kramd5 (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



neuroanatomist said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Except i don’t rally have a case, and there are a whole hell of a lot of cameras out there which aren’t nikon or canon SLRs or MILCs. I just tried it on my iPhone and it didn’t appear to refocus between frames


----------



## Talys (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



neuroanatomist said:


> The other observation has nothing to do with AF, per se. I have had some friends state that they shoot bursts because the first shot or two are usually out of focus, but then the focus system 'settles down'. I ask if they're using IS/VR/VC lenses and the answer in those cases has always been yes, so I explain that it's not the AF system that needs to settle, but rather the IS system that needs up to 1/2 s to become fully effective (and during IS startup, it can actually add more blur than just handholding would produce).



It could be that when they depress the on-body shutter button, they're torqueing the body a little. If you roll your fingers across the shutter (instead of jab at it), this minimizes the impact, but for sure, it is still there. a couple of frames into it, and that wont' be the case anymore.

Incidentally, this is a design deficiency in the Sony bodies, in my opinion. The shutter button has a ridge around it for the power switch that is raised very sharply, and makes it impossible to gently roll the finger across the button. Nikon has a similar design, but because of the gently sloping ring, it's not a big deal. I think that the clean Canon shutter button design is the best.

On a side note, I have never understood the point of the power switch by the shutter, cluttering the most valuable real estate on the body. When I'm engaged in photography, I turn on the camera, and leave it on for hours.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Talys said:


> On a side note, I have never understood the point of the power switch by the shutter, cluttering the most valuable real estate on the body. When I'm engaged in photography, *I turn on the camera, and leave it on for hours*.



Don't try that with your mirrorless. Maybe that's why they put the power switch there, to remind you to turn the camera off after every shot, to conserve the limited battery power.


----------



## old-pr-pix (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



ahsanford said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > 3kramd5 said:
> ...


Similar evolution for Olympus although Oly clearly states multiple burst rates depending on mechanical vs. electronic shutter, continuous AF vs. first frame locked focus. Example spec. for latest body (all shooting full RAW or RAW+jpg): electronic shutter 60 fps (S-AF) and 18 fps (C-AF), mechanical shutter hits 15 fps (S-AF) - i.e. similar to the 1DX. Panasonic's new G9 is equal or better for electronic shutter, slightly slower for mechanical shutter.

So, current MILC's don't have to lock focus on the first frame of a burst while besting many, if not most, dSLR's. (Is there a dSLR that hits 18 fps with continuous AF?)


----------



## Talys (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



neuroanatomist said:


> Talys said:
> 
> 
> > On a side note, I have never understood the point of the power switch by the shutter, cluttering the most valuable real estate on the body. When I'm engaged in photography, *I turn on the camera, and leave it on for hours*.
> ...



hahahaha

+1


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



old-pr-pix said:


> Similar evolution for Olympus although Oly clearly states multiple burst rates depending on mechanical vs. electronic shutter, continuous AF vs. first frame locked focus. Example spec. for latest body (all shooting full RAW or RAW+jpg): electronic shutter 60 fps (S-AF) and 18 fps (C-AF), mechanical shutter hits 15 fps (S-AF) - i.e. similar to the 1DX. Panasonic's new G9 is equal or better for electronic shutter, slightly slower for mechanical shutter.
> 
> So, current MILC's don't have to lock focus on the first frame of a burst while besting many, if not most, dSLR's. (Is there a dSLR that hits 18 fps with continuous AF?)



With e-shutter vs. mechanical Sony got a little burned with the A9 (20 fps e-shutter with some interesting stadium lighting problems and yet only a 5 fps max mechanical shutter to fall back on), the so new III models for the A7 have 10 fps mechanical shutters now I believe -- please correct me if I am mistaken. Curious to see how/when they'll go big on a high fps electronic shutter again.

- A


----------



## Talys (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



ahsanford said:


> old-pr-pix said:
> 
> 
> > Similar evolution for Olympus although Oly clearly states multiple burst rates depending on mechanical vs. electronic shutter, continuous AF vs. first frame locked focus. Example spec. for latest body (all shooting full RAW or RAW+jpg): electronic shutter 60 fps (S-AF) and 18 fps (C-AF), mechanical shutter hits 15 fps (S-AF) - i.e. similar to the 1DX. Panasonic's new G9 is equal or better for electronic shutter, slightly slower for mechanical shutter.
> ...



The 10 fps mechanical shutter on the III's have limitations. You need to set it to 8 fps for most things because at 10fps, the EVF has delayed updates. I don't know the AF situation at 10fps; didn't test it before I returned the camera, since effectively shooting blind was a deal-killer for me. The use case of 10fps is, for instance, to take a string of photographs of someone jumping off a diving board where you want to grab as many frames as possible, while the camera is in a fixed position.

The electronic (silent) shutter has distortion that's unreal if there is motion.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Talys said:


> The use case of 10fps is, for instance, to take a string of photographs of someone jumping off a diving board where you want to grab as many frames as possible, while the camera is in a fixed position.
> 
> The electronic (silent) shutter has distortion that's unreal if there is motion.



Sony will fix it through innovation. The a7RIV will have a button that suspends gravity and stops time, which will eliminate the distortion caused by their silent shutter.


----------



## ahsanford (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



neuroanatomist said:


> Sony will fix it through innovation. The a7RIV will have a button that suspends gravity and stops time, which will eliminate the distortion caused by their silent shutter.



And a handle with built-in acupuncture to numb your hand pain. But that'll be a while -- it's a definitively different type of sealing design. 

- A


----------



## Tugela (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



neuroanatomist said:


> Talys said:
> 
> 
> > On a side note, I have never understood the point of the power switch by the shutter, cluttering the most valuable real estate on the body. When I'm engaged in photography, *I turn on the camera, and leave it on for hours*.
> ...



What the hell are you talking about? I leave my camera on for hours and don't have an issue with battery life. Batteries on my old DSLRs lasted as long as the batteries on my current MILC. In fact, you DON'T want to switch your camera off while using it, otherwise you run into warmup issues on restarting.

What uses battery life for the most part is leaving CAF on since driving the lens motors sucks up a lot of power. That is an issue with DSLRs as well.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Tugela said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Talys said:
> ...



I love the whooshing sound that occurs when humor sails right over someone's head.


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## Ozarker (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Tugela said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Talys said:
> ...



^Issues^ Hmmm... another chink in Sony's mythical armour. No problem with battery life, but you'd better not turn it off. Warm up issues. 

I turn my DSLR off and on with no issues at all. Don't see how a Sony battery lasts as long if "... you don't want to turn it off. " Sounds like a warning to me.


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## Shopbywoot (Apr 3, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

Great, thanks!
https://www.ufa88.in


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## old-pr-pix (Apr 4, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



neuroanatomist said:


> Tugela said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...


+1 on the whoosh!

What warm-up issues? My gear comes up just fine - both dSLR and MILC. I do tend to turn off the mirrorless bodies much more frequently for just the reasons mentioned.


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## Talys (Apr 4, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



CanonFanBoy said:


> Tugela said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



+1 to the whoosh ;D

But Tugela _actually brought up a good point_. You turn a 5D off, and you turn it on, and you take a picture. Hell, you can do that with a Rebel. You turn an A7R3 off, and you turn it on, and there is a brief startup time that can feel like a long time if you want to snap a picture in the moment and the viewfinder is showing black. Likewise with wake from sleep.

There is another "pause" that's annoyingly long -- if you switch C modes (C1, C2, C3) there is a dumb pause of about a second where your subject disappears and you're forced to stare at a full screen of all your custom mode settings through the viewfinder.


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## Viggo (Apr 4, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

Startup time??

That sure brings me back to the compacts from 2002 ;D


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 4, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Viggo said:


> Startup time??
> That sure brings me back to the compacts from 2002 ;D



Yeah, but that's because those old P&S cameras lacked innovative technology. Sony's cameras are packed with so much innovative technology, they have to be booted up like a Win7 PC.


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## padam (Apr 4, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

By the way, how the Canon mirrorless cameras work in that regard? Turning it off, then on and take a picture, is there a lag?

And is it true that they have effectively no standby mode?
https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4135715


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## AvTvM (Apr 4, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



padam said:


> By the way, how the Canon mirrorless cameras work in that regard? Turning it off, then on and take a picture, is there a lag?
> And is it true that they have effectively no standby mode?
> https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4135715





> I found that the M5 viewfinder will never turn off if something is in the proximity sensor.



Camera will quite *correctly* not enter standby, while proximity sensor indicates that operator's eye is looking thru viewfinder ... and any normal person would shut the camera off before stowing it away in a bag/backpack and not just throw it in the bag and complain later that battery is sucked empty. 

On my (original model) EOS M i don't observe noteworthy lags ... despite being a rather impatient person.


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## padam (Apr 4, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

I see. Just for the record, measured startup times according to Imaging Resource:

5D Classic 0.1 sec
D850 0.2 sec
5DII 0.4 sec
5DIII / 5DIV / 6D / 6DII 0.5 sec
D750 0.5 sec
EOS M5 1.2 sec
A9 1.2 sec
A7RII 1.5 sec
A7RIII 1.7 sec
A7S 2.0 sec (I find this accurate)
EOS M 2.7 sec (Maybe faster with the last firmware, but they claim it with that)

If you put on a fresh battery on the Sony, it is way slower, and there is also a bit of a delay when waking up from standby.


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## unfocused (Apr 4, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



AvTvM said:


> ...any normal person would shut the camera off before stowing it away in a bag/backpack and not just throw it in the bag and complain later that battery is sucked empty...



Clearly I'm not a normal person, as I frequently put my camera back in the bag after an assignment and forget to turn it off. I don't worry about it, because it will shut down within a few minutes anyway.


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## 3kramd5 (Apr 4, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



unfocused said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > ...any normal person would shut the camera off before stowing it away in a bag/backpack and not just throw it in the bag and complain later that battery is sucked empty...
> ...



I almost never turn my cameras off...


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 4, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



unfocused said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > ...any normal person would shut the camera off before stowing it away in a bag/backpack and not just throw it in the bag and complain later that battery is sucked empty...
> ...



Funny how some people think their behavior and personal opnioins define 'normal' for everyone. Well, funny isn't really the right word. Asinine would be closer, but the most accurate descriptor is probably bigoted (not the first time that's come up as a reference). 

Personally, I do generally turn my cameras off before storing them, but I don't obsess over it. I did have one experience where I put my 1D X + 24-70/2.8 wrapped in a neoprene sleeve (LensCoat BodyBag) into a regular backpack with some other items, and later when I set the backpack down, I heard the distinctive 'machinegun' sound of the shutter button being held down.


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## unfocused (Apr 4, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



neuroanatomist said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



I'm thinking that the reason Canon allows you to select the length of time before automatic shutdown is because there are a lot of abnormal people like me.


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## Talys (Apr 4, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

Holy smokes. Now _leaving your camera on_ is controversial, hahahaha. 8)

I do it all the time when shooting out and about. Not on purpose; just, I'm done shooting, put it in the backpack, and forgot to switch it off. It happens!

For product shot cameras in the studio on a tripod, I neglect to shut them off all the time. They'll just go into sleep mode anyways, and so what -- a battery will still last weeks.



unfocused said:


> I'm thinking that the reason Canon allows you to select the length of time before automatic shutdown is because there are a lot of abnormal people like me.



You're not abnormal. You're supernormal! ;D

Mine is set to 30 min, the longest other than "Never". The power draw even when it's on is tiny, as long as it's not in live view, and it has to be a _really_ long shooting day for me to use up a full LPE6.


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## Mikehit (Apr 4, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



AvTvM said:


> padam said:
> 
> 
> > By the way, how the Canon mirrorless cameras work in that regard? Turning it off, then on and take a picture, is there a lag?
> ...



I dont find stowing in a bag is a problem. What kills battery on my PanOly cameras is slinging over my shoulder and the movement of my arm keeps tripping the eye proximity sensor and keeping EVF or LCD active. A real PITA.


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## Talys (Apr 4, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

I do not really like how the Sony camera switches to the viewfinder and turns off the LCD when something obstructs the VF sensor. For example, if the camera is on a tripod, and I adjust or remove a flash transmitter, the LCD flickers on and off. It's made worse because the Sony Mi flash connector is a curse from hell, that's both delicate (there is a row of tiny, fragile pins at the end) and is very tight to remove.

It would be nice on EVF cameras if you could put on "high performance mode" and constantly power the viewfinder and/or LCD (with the option of just having basic information on the LCD, like exposure settings), and leave them on -- battery be damned. I like the LCD always on simply because there's no top display, and I want to be able to check what my exposure settings are.

On another topic, a minor preference I have with the Canon system is in Auto ISO display. With Canon, it shows the last metered auto ISO (in the VF, top display, etc.). On the Sony, it shows the current ISO if you have shutter at half-press, or it just says AUTO when you release the shutter button (or dedicated AE button) .


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## scyrene (Apr 4, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

Fwiw in general if I put mine in a bag, I try to turn it off (in the past I've occasionally had them take bursts of shots inside the bag if not), altough it's certainly no big deal to forget; when my cameras are slung over my shoulder, or lying around at home, which is most of the time nowadays, I almost never turn them off - and the batteries last for days at least (and maybe weeks) if they're not being used.


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## Ozarker (Apr 5, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

You are all missing the point. With a Sony it isn't so much the user turning the camera on, but the Sony turning the user on. That's innovation. Once the Metabones is attached all rational connection with reality is over until the battery is spent... which takes about two minutes in burst mode. Yes, sometimes there are startup issues, but that happens to everyone at some point.

Yeah, stupid comment. You all already know that's who I am, so no surprise.


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## Isaacheus (Apr 5, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Talys said:


> I do not really like how the Sony camera switches to the viewfinder and turns off the LCD when something obstructs the VF sensor. For example, if the camera is on a tripod, and I adjust or remove a flash transmitter, the LCD flickers on and off. It's made worse because the Sony Mi flash connector is a curse from hell, that's both delicate (there is a row of tiny, fragile pins at the end) and is very tight to remove.
> 
> It would be nice on EVF cameras if you could put on "high performance mode" and constantly power the viewfinder and/or LCD (with the option of just having basic information on the LCD, like exposure settings), and leave them on -- battery be damned. I like the LCD always on simply because there's no top display, and I want to be able to check what my exposure settings are.
> 
> On another topic, a minor preference I have with the Canon system is in Auto ISO display. With Canon, it shows the last metered auto ISO (in the VF, top display, etc.). On the Sony, it shows the current ISO if you have shutter at half-press, or it just says AUTO when you release the shutter button (or dedicated AE button) .



A kinda solution to this is to tilt the screen out slightly, in the latest ones this turns the evf off and it just keeps on the lcd. 

It would be nice to have a true switch for them though yes


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## padam (Apr 5, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Talys said:


> I do not really like how the Sony camera switches to the viewfinder and turns off the LCD when something obstructs the VF sensor. For example, if the camera is on a tripod, and I adjust or remove a flash transmitter, the LCD flickers on and off. It's made worse because the Sony Mi flash connector is a curse from hell, that's both delicate (there is a row of tiny, fragile pins at the end) and is very tight to remove.



That's actually a very easy fix, I've applied some LightDims to part of the eye-sensor, and now it only switches on if I lift my eye to the viewfinder, no need to adjust anything else, no more annoyances, problem solved.
And on the newest cameras it should be disabled when the LCD is tilted anyway, but this fix works perfectly for any of them.
I use a Godox TT350S, yes the hotshoe is better on the Canon, but I don't find it too hard to remove, just have to be turned the right amount (not too much and not too little).


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## bwud (Apr 5, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Isaacheus said:


> Talys said:
> 
> 
> > I do not really like how the Sony camera switches to the viewfinder and turns off the LCD when something obstructs the VF sensor. For example, if the camera is on a tripod, and I adjust or remove a flash transmitter, the LCD flickers on and off. It's made worse because the Sony Mi flash connector is a curse from hell, that's both delicate (there is a row of tiny, fragile pins at the end) and is very tight to remove.
> ...



You could map the Monitor(manual) command, which disables the EVF, somewhere convenient.


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## Isaacheus (Apr 5, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



bwud said:


> Isaacheus said:
> 
> 
> > Talys said:
> ...



Even better, wasn't aware of that option. Thanks!


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## bwud (Apr 5, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*

Here is the relevant documentation


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## Talys (Apr 5, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



bwud said:


> Here is the relevant documentation



This is a horrible setting (at least, for me).

If you set it to Viewfinder, it's always ONLY on viewfinder, and there is never anything on the back screen, which means you can't check your exposure setting unless you look into the viewfinder (since there's no top LCD).

If you set it on Monitor, the viewfinder NEVER works. And who wants that?

What I really want is Viewfinder + Monitor so that you can force both to be powered at the same time, and never powered off unless it goes into sleep. It is ok for the monitor to have the basic exposure settings only. Frankly, I don't want most of the do-dads on the back display that Sony shows, like the electronic level and all that. Just mode (M/A/S/P,C1/etc.), aperture, shutter, ISO, drive mode, focus area, flash/hss, EV+/-, and shots left.

Also, some high performance, battery-eating, viewfinder mode where it never shuts off unless I turn the camera off, because in wildlife photography, the fraction of a second between black viewfinder and seeing something is precious time lost. I can always feed the camera another battery.


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## bwud (Apr 6, 2018)

*Re: Here Are Some Claimed Specifications For One of the Prototype Canon Full Frame Mirrorless Camera*



Talys said:


> bwud said:
> 
> 
> > Here is the relevant documentation
> ...



Yah I don’t use it, but if it’s mapped somewhere I could see it being useful. When I used an A7Rii I mapped C4 to turn everything off. With the bigger battery it hasn’t been a problem. My only issue is that sometimes when I go from a bring area into shade it goes to the EVF, so I’m assuming it’s a brightness sensor not proximity.


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