# Canon Mirrorless Information? [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (May 5, 2012)

```
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<strong>It’s been a while


</strong>Talk of a Canon mirrorless system has been pretty quiet the last few months, though there is a general assumption we’ll see one announced sometime in 2012.</p>
<p>The latest bits of information that has floated my way are below.</p>
<ul>
<li>Two Cameras</li>
<li>G1 X Sensor Size</li>
<li>APS-C a possibility in one camera</li>
<li>14 & 24 megapixels</li>
<li>EF compatibility, but not EF mount.</li>
<li>EVF on one camera</li>
<li>3-5 Lenses announced at launch.</li>
</ul>
<p>I suspect specifications for the new cameras have yet to be finalized and this sort of information will evolve over time.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


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## Astro (May 5, 2012)

> ■EF compatibility, but not EF mount.



i understand it the way that an adapter is needed?!


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## squarebox (May 5, 2012)

Astro said:


> > ■EF compatibility, but not EF mount.
> 
> 
> 
> i understand it the way that an adapter is needed?!



Like the nikon mirrorless system how it needs an adapter to attach nikor lenses maybe?


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## ontarian (May 5, 2012)

Come on Canon, go full frame or don't bother. One major camera company should help the serious amateur masses adapt to digital just about any vintage 35mm lens ever made in the native as designed 35mm capture format. We already have a sea of near beer EVIL mirrorless bodies that bring old lenses to digital but only in 1.5x and 2x crop formats. 

I know I won't get what I wish for, Canon will of course go for mass sales of mini-pretend DSLRs in a form factor closer to a point and shoot, department store buyers want to play the lens swap game.

Bitter. I'm going to have to reignite the efilm idea from the late 90's 

The actual real try at it in 1999 ( http://cultureandcommunication.org/deadmedia/index.php/Silicon_Film )
and the fake one that was an art/marketing project (http://re35.net/index.html)

EdMika Camera Company has a longer term goal now.


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## wickidwombat (May 5, 2012)

a 24MP APS-C mirrorless that has EF compatibility will be totally bad ass especially if its a compact body that could be nice to carry as a lightweight backup for travel and also for extending the range for long shots, that is if the AF is up to scratch
I wonder what AF system they are looking at putting in it


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## mb66energy (May 5, 2012)

I need a camera ...

- which shoots movies
- which is smaller than a DSLR but has similar image quality
- which accepts EF lenses and e.g. FD lenses

I want to try out video with a flexible system (focal lengths, macro, thin DOF, manual control) and think about buying a 600D but ... it just fulfills the first criterion.

I don't want to collect to much single purpose systems and much more I don't like to carry them around! Please, Canon, introduce some mirrorless with usable video capabilities soon!

Using an adaptor to couble EF lenses is o.k.: Makes the mirrorless cam flatter with dedicated lenses (I need only one: a compact 40mm equiv lens with close up capability!).


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## elflord (May 5, 2012)

Astro said:


> > EF compatibility, but not EF mount.
> 
> 
> 
> i understand it the way that an adapter is needed?!



Yes. There would be no point making an EF mount mirrorless, the whole point of going mirrorless is so that you can mount the lens closer to the sensor for a smaller package. This requires a new mount. An adapter would be needed. This would probably provide electrical coupling (so aperture control and AF would work) though it remains to be seen if AF would work well. 

For existing mirrorless, Sony mirrorless (E-mount) cameras can AF with Sony DSLR (A-mount) lenses, and the same is true for 4/3 lenses on micro 4/3 cameras, but AF with the adapted lens generally does not work nearly as well as on the DSLR (on mirrorless the lenses use contrast AF but the lenses are designed to work with phase detect AF)


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## dougkerr (May 5, 2012)

Hi, Ontarian,



ontarian said:


> Come on Canon, go full frame or don't bother.


I'm not sure I understand the premise that 24 mm x 36 mm is automatically the ideal format for a new genre of serious "general purpose" digital cameras.

In the late 1930's, we were introduced to the concept that cameras with a format size smaller than, for example, 2-1/4" x 3-1/4" could do serious photography. Thus we came to embrace (suspiciously at first) the 24 mm x 36 mm format. This created an entire world of "miniature" photography.

Now, 75 years later, with a wholly different paradigm of imaging, and an enormous history of development and a repertoire of powerful technical tools at our disposal, this very same format size is somehow still held to be "the real thing".

I myself would like to see the power of our tools deployed to make the next generation of "general purpose serious digital cameras" (body and lenses) a bit smaller and lighter than dictated by arbitrary adherence to the 24 mm x 36 mm format.

Best regards,

Doug


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## Leadfingers (May 5, 2012)

elflord said:


> Astro said:
> 
> 
> > > EF compatibility, but not EF mount.
> ...



I disagree entirely.

To me, the whole point of going mirrorless is to begin to transistion away from some of the physical limitations and liabilities the the current cameras have. Current cameras still operate too much old film cameras in my opinion...


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## ontarian (May 5, 2012)

I'm purely looking at it from the perspective of being able to take advantage of the short flange focal distance to adapt any vintage lenses work in digital using the original capture area.



dougkerr said:


> Hi, Ontarian,
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## elflord (May 5, 2012)

mb66energy said:


> I need a camera ...
> 
> - which shoots movies
> - which is smaller than a DSLR but has similar image quality
> ...



Have you looked into Micro 4/3 (for example, Panasonic G3 or GH2) with the 20mm f/1.7 ? It will adapt just about any lens, including your EF lenses. They also work very well with FD lenses. The 20mm f/1.7 has a 20cm minimum focus distance -- not a true macro but pretty close for a non macro.

The problem with waiting around for Canon is that not only does no-one know when they will deliver, no-one really knows what they will deliver either. For example, what kind of native lenses will their new mount have ? The systems with better lineups still had some gaping holes (Fuji, Micro 4/3), others simply had awful lineups to begin with (Nikon, Sony).


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## elflord (May 5, 2012)

Leadfingers said:


> I disagree entirely.
> 
> To me, the whole point of going mirrorless is to begin to transistion away from some of the physical limitations and liabilities the the current cameras have. Current cameras still operate too much old film cameras in my opinion...



In live view mode, modern DSLRs function as a mirrorless camera. The DSLR may come with extra "baggage", but it does have all the functionality of a mirrorless system. 

So the transition from DSLR to mirrorless is all about removing baggage, and part of that baggage is lens mount systems that leave space between the mount and the sensor for a mirror.


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## Abraxx (May 5, 2012)

I hope the AF is better than on the G1 X (which sucks...), I didn't like it.

I would use such a Cam for extended reach and quick moving subjects.
An EF & EF-S adapter would certainly be a must for a successful, late introduction to the developed market.

It has to compete against a Nikon 1 (horrible grip & control, but rest is great) and the rocketing market of 4/3 (...OM-D E-M5 is promising...), 
Canon is last to the mirror-less market, so it better be reeeeally good, otherwise... ???

My expectations are higher, higher even than for the Canon "53" :


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## moreorless (May 5, 2012)

Canon Rumors said:


> <div name="googleone_share_1" style="position:relative;z-index:5;float: right; /*margin: 70px 0 0 0;*/ top:70px; right:120px; width:0;"><glusone size="tall" count="1" href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/05/canon-mirrorless-information-cr1/"></glusone></div><div id="fb_share_1" style="float: right; margin: 0 0px 0 10px;"><a name="fb_share" type="box_count" share_url="http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/05/canon-mirrorless-information-cr1/" href="http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php">Share</a></div><div><script src="http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/connect.php/js/FB.Share" type="text/javascript"></script></div><div class="tweetmeme_button" style="float: right; margin-left: 10px; margin-bottom: 70px;"><a class="tm_button" rel="&style=normal&b=2" href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/05/canon-mirrorless-information-cr1/"></a></div>
> <strong>It’s been a while
> 
> 
> ...



This does seem to tie in pretty well with what we know or have seen rumoured already to me. The G1X sensor being reused on a lower end body and then the rumoured new 24 MP sensor in a higher end body with EVF.


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## Woody (May 5, 2012)

Canon won't be able to arouse any of my interest in their products until they fix their low ISO dynamic range.


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## Ricku (May 5, 2012)

Damnit Canon, you better give us the full frame mirrorless we are all craving for.

I'm so not interested in the lackluster DOF and ISO capabilities of the APS-C sensors.


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## c.d.embrey (May 5, 2012)

elflord said:


> For existing mirrorless, Sony mirrorless (E-mount) cameras can AF with Sony DSLR (A-mount) lenses ...



Sony makes two adapters. One is just a mechanical adapter and uses the camera's autofocus. The second one has a built-in SLT autofocus system and the focus is as fast as their DSLR.

Nikon has the phase detect sensors built into the chip, so it can focus as fast as a DSLR.

Hopefully Canon can do something like the Nikon solution, for fast auto focus with either EF or the native mirrorless lenses.


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## Daniel Flather (May 5, 2012)

ontarian said:


> Come on Canon, go full frame or don't bother.



+24.36


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 5, 2012)

Canon patented a adapter for EF to a new mount small lens last year. It includes autofocus capability. I'd expect to see a adapter using that patent.

http://www.canonrumors.com/2011/03/first-canon-mirrorless-related-patent/

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=734.0


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## c.d.embrey (May 5, 2012)

Canon's 3 to 5 lenses will include 18-55mm, 18-85mm, 18-200mm, 18-400mm and 18-600mm variable aperture zoomz    And No Primes Ever   

BTW this is *SARCASM*. But I fear it is close to the truth when it come to primes.


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## Caps18 (May 5, 2012)

It means nothing to me if I can't use my EF lenses.

I can see where going smaller would be better, but if I am carrying my big lenses around, I'm not going to see much benefit over my 5Dm2. It's not like I would take this mirrorless camera over the 5Dm2 traveling or anything.

I would rather have a G1x as a backup camera to get into events and such that restrict DSLRs is the only reason.


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## Hesbehindyou (May 5, 2012)

Woody said:


> Canon won't be able to arouse any of my interest in their products until they fix their low ISO dynamic range.



Yet you've posted 126 times in this forum. I'd say you're already interested!

To those asking for FF, it's a niche product due to the cost of the sensor (and possibly also the cost of making the lenses compared to those for smaller cameras). It'll likely happen, but perhaps when the product and technology have been proved such that they can make a profit on what will be a high cost, relatively low volume model.


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## Nostrada (May 5, 2012)

Woody said:


> Canon won't be able to arouse any of my interest in their products until they fix their low ISO dynamic range.



Yes, because that was always such a big issue and no-one ever bought any Canon camera due to their low ISO dynamic range being completely inadequate. I mean, rumor has it that once, in Tibet (or was it San Francisco?), there was a philosopher who preached that it was all about the man taking the photo, not the equipment, and also devised a system for exposing a photo based on a 10EV system that would work for pretty much everything but, while the man achieved a relative degree of success, his theories were dismissed and proved to be inaccurate by the highly-trained interned trolls. 

Last but not least, from what I heard, Nikon can't get any customers for the D800 since medium format cameras, costing only 20 times as much, have greater DR at the same low ISO - and everybody knows that you only need to shoot at low ISO's, and no one ever complained that the image quality at higher ISO is inadequate, since no one ever shoots at higher ISOs. 

In conclusion, I whole-heartedly agree with your perspective.


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## ecka (May 5, 2012)

I still want it to be FF, good size (not pocketable) + good grip (with a BIG battery in it) + all the necessary wheels and buttons + vari-angle LCD. Am I crazy? :-\
Perhaps there is a better chance to see something like that from Sony ... NEX-9 ?


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## ontarian (May 5, 2012)

ecka said:


> I still want it to be FF, good size (not pocketable) + good grip (with a BIG battery in it) + all the necessary wheels and buttons + vari-angle LCD. Am I crazy? :-\
> Perhaps there is a better chance to see something like that from Sony ... NEX-9 ?



A full frame NEX-9 would have my dollar the minute it started shipping.


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## ecka (May 5, 2012)

ontarian said:


> ecka said:
> 
> 
> > I still want it to be FF, good size (not pocketable) + good grip (with a BIG battery in it) + all the necessary wheels and buttons + vari-angle LCD. Am I crazy? :-\
> ...



Yes, but I must warn you, it may be 36mp, just like D800.  Is there mRAW/sRAW feature in NEX cameras?


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## ontarian (May 5, 2012)

ecka said:


> ontarian said:
> 
> 
> > ecka said:
> ...



Not that I'm aware of, I'm happy to shoot jpg most of the time though, I'm a quantity shooter.


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## Woody (May 5, 2012)

Nostrada said:


> Last but not least, from what I heard, Nikon can't get any customers for the D800 since medium format cameras, costing only 20 times as much, have greater DR at the same low ISO - and everybody knows that you only need to shoot at low ISO's, and no one ever complained that the image quality at higher ISO is inadequate, since no one ever shoots at higher ISOs.



Except the D800 captures greater low ISO dynamic range AND offers much better high ISO performance than medium format cameras. ;D

The D7000 also leaves any Canon APS-C camera in the dust as far as sensor performance is concerned.


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## Neeneko (May 6, 2012)

Hesbehindyou said:


> To those asking for FF, it's a niche product due to the cost of the sensor (and possibly also the cost of making the lenses compared to those for smaller cameras). It'll likely happen, but perhaps when the product and technology have been proved such that they can make a profit on what will be a high cost, relatively low volume model.



This is why, ideally, they would produce a range of mirrorless cameras all at the same time, showing that they can support a new system from the low end up through high end.

Sure FF is a niche, but it is a growing one, and it is one that the mirrorless cameras have not really touched yet. Canon could really make themselves stand out and get a head start on what will probably be a significant niche long term.


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## dr croubie (May 6, 2012)

ontarian said:


> Come on Canon, go full frame or don't bother. One major camera company should help the serious amateur masses adapt to digital just about any vintage 35mm lens ever made in the native as designed 35mm capture format. We already have a sea of near beer EVIL mirrorless bodies that bring old lenses to digital but only in 1.5x and 2x crop formats.



But if canon bring out a shorter-flange Mirrorless FF (or even APS-C) body, won't that just kill your business for the FD-EF adapters? Sure, you could probably make FD - EF-m (i'm calling the mirrorless mount EF-m btw) adapters, maybe sheaper than the official canon adapters, but the tolerances won't need to be so tight so eventually you'll just get undercut by $5 chinese ones.

Don't get me wrong, i'd love a mirrorless FF, i'd be second in the queue behind you for a FF nex-9 (or a Leica M10 if it gets live-view). But it's bad enough competing with NEX and m4/3 owners for FL/FD lenses, bringing in a FF mirrorless is going to make those lenses even more expensive.

Seeing as FF mirrorless is still probably inevitable within 3 years (hopefully sooner), i'm off to ebay to stock up...


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## dr croubie (May 6, 2012)

Caps18 said:


> I can see where going smaller would be better, but if I am carrying my big lenses around, I'm not going to see much benefit over my 5Dm2. It's not like I would take this mirrorless camera over the 5Dm2 traveling or anything.



I'd take the mirrorless travelling, and have the SLR for more specialised shots.
But depends how you travel, if you're taking a 600mm f/4 IS II, the camera on the end won't make much difference if it's NEX-sized or a 1DX.


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## Leadfingers (May 6, 2012)

I'm still struggling with "EF compatibility, but not EF mount." If you can't mount it, it's not compatible....by definition.

...Unless they're talking about an adapter, but that's far from clear.

Anyway, if Canon releases a mirrorless camera that doesn't support EF-(S) lenses, that will be a huge failure (in my opinion). I can't think of a reason that rings true that would compel them to contrive a new form factor.

/shrug


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## dr croubie (May 6, 2012)

Leadfingers said:


> I'm still struggling with "EF compatibility, but not EF mount." If you can't mount it, it's not compatible....by definition.



I presume they're talking about a short-flange mount (like 10-25mm), and an electronic adapter 20mm or so thick to a real EF mount, so you can use any EF mount lens with full autofocus and IS.
Ergo, electronically compatible with regards to AF and IS signals, but not EF mount because it's shorter.


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## Ivar (May 6, 2012)

Also, a better DR than the 5D3 would be nice. 



Daniel Flather said:


> ontarian said:
> 
> 
> > Come on Canon, go full frame or don't bother.
> ...


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## tmrgrs (May 6, 2012)

Canon has already missed the boat for many potential mirrorless buyers and it's probably too late now except for brand conscious Canon enthusiasts. They'll sell at the big retailers to walk-in dummies no doubt but just like the Nikon mirrorless, but not so much to the many many tech-savvy enthusiasts who have already bought in to this technology with m4/3 or the NEX.

I've just recently sold off my 5D2 and all of my EOS fast primes after being a Canon DSLR user for nearly a decade and now have the E-M5 & E-PL3 along with couple of fast primes and a couple of zooms. There are more fast primes and constant aperture fast zooms coming later this year for m4/3 and there's no looking back now regardless of what Canon introduces for me. Adios Canon!


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## moreorless (May 6, 2012)

*Re: 14 and 24MP?*



dilbert said:


> I wonder who will be supplying the sensors for those...
> 
> If they're both Canon and 24MP is APS-C, does that mean we should also expect to see 24MP APS-C DSLRs from Canon later in the year too?



There were rumours of a Canon 24MP sensor in one or both of the 650D and 70D.

As far as mirrorless primes go I don't think you can nesserally take Canon's lack of EF-S primes as a sign. There are plenty of smaller EF primes to fill that market where as with mirrorless the expectaion is obviously for something smaller.

To me the real key to the higher end mirrorless market seems like it may well be who can get out a quality zoom first. Olympus's 12-50 seems to have disapointed many but something with either than 24mm equivilent or a constant 2.8 and good IQ would I'd say have a bigger factor in desiding who comes out ontop that differences in bodies.


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## ecka (May 6, 2012)

tmrgrs said:


> Canon has already missed the boat for many potential mirrorless buyers and it's probably too late now except for brand conscious Canon enthusiasts. They'll sell at the big retailers to walk-in dummies no doubt but just like the Nikon mirrorless, but not so much to the many many tech-savvy enthusiasts who have already bought in to this technology with m4/3 or the NEX.
> 
> I've just recently sold off my 5D2 and all of my EOS fast primes after being a Canon DSLR user for nearly a decade and now have the E-M5 & E-PL3 along with couple of fast primes and a couple of zooms. There are more fast primes and constant aperture fast zooms coming later this year for m4/3 and there's no looking back now regardless of what Canon introduces for me. Adios Canon!



If the size and style of your camera system is more important than the actual images it produces (or it's just good enough), then there is nothing wrong with choosing m/43 or NEX. It may be the right choice if you don't care about the involved compromises. Looking at the m4/3 results I'm not convinced that it is much better than a premium P&S (like G1 X), while NEX APS-C sensor being more attractive which still cannot compete with Full Frame beauty.


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## c.d.embrey (May 6, 2012)

ecka said:


> If the size and style of your camera system is more important than the actual images it produces (or it's just good enough), then there is nothing wrong with choosing m/43 or NEX. It may be the right choice if you don't care about the involved compromises. Looking at the m4/3 results I'm not convinced that it is much better than a premium P&S (like G1 X), while NEX APS-C sensor being more attractive which still cannot compete with Full Frame beauty.



It all depends on what you are doing. I shoot advertising with a Canon APS-C. I know of some ads that were shot with M4/3 and even one cover shot with M4/3.

Always use the right tool for the job. And sometimes M4/3 is the right tool.

When the Canon mirrorless and it's lenses arrive, I'll take a look. If they are the right tools I'll buy into the system. If not I'll look elsewhere.


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## seta666 (May 7, 2012)

As a macro photographer I would like a small APS-C camera to back up my EOS 5D; but as some other said either canon fixes their low DR at base ISO (which sucks) or this camera will be a NEX (together with the 400$ NEX-EF adapter so I can use the MP-E). 
And please, with cable release and flash socket!!!


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## ecka (May 7, 2012)

c.d.embrey said:


> ecka said:
> 
> 
> > If the size and style of your camera system is more important than the actual images it produces (or it's just good enough), then there is nothing wrong with choosing m/43 or NEX. It may be the right choice if you don't care about the involved compromises. Looking at the m4/3 results I'm not convinced that it is much better than a premium P&S (like G1 X), while NEX APS-C sensor being more attractive which still cannot compete with Full Frame beauty.
> ...



Yes, like I said, if it's good enough, then why not ?... I've seen some advertising and covers shot with Canon PowerShot G10 and it's fine when used with good lighting setup (and it is possible to add some fake shallow DoF in post-processing).


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## jouster (May 7, 2012)

Nostrada said:


> Woody said:
> 
> 
> > Canon won't be able to arouse any of my interest in their products until they fix their low ISO dynamic range.
> ...



+ 10EV for "interned trolls"...



dilbert said:


> I wonder who will be supplying the sensors for those...
> 
> If they're both Canon and 24MP is APS-C, does that mean we should also expect to see 24MP APS-C DSLRs from Canon later in the year too?



Hmmmm....I hope so, and can't think of any reason we wouldn't. A high-resolution APS-C (or a *much* denser full frame sensor, of course, but that seems a ways away) is desirable to me for astro-imaging. 



dr croubie said:


> Caps18 said:
> 
> 
> > I can see where going smaller would be better, but if I am carrying my big lenses around, I'm not going to see much benefit over my 5Dm2. It's not like I would take this mirrorless camera over the 5Dm2 traveling or anything.
> ...



What specialized shots would those be? Just curious. I take my SLR when traveling because (a) I want the full functionality it offers; and (b) it really ain't that big. With a couple of primes - say 85mm and something wider - it fits easily in my briefcase.


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## dr croubie (May 7, 2012)

jouster said:


> dr croubie said:
> 
> 
> > I'd take the mirrorless travelling, and have the SLR for more specialised shots.
> ...



I'm not sure really, tbh. For now, at least, dslrs offer much faster and better phase-detect AF, so the 7D stays for sports.
In really low light, I trust my own eyes (and my katzeye) better than waiting for live-view to update, the back screen can be a bit jelly sometimes (which I hear is a real problem with Sonys, of course having never used one myself).
And I've just been taking pics of the 'supermoon' tonight, maybe it's a problem with the 7D, but taking a wide-angle shot and trying to MF on 10x live-view is impossible, the screen amped up the gain because most of the scene was black, it blew-out the moon, impossible to focus on a bright white blob. So I had to use my katz-eye viewfinder again for that. (but then after a while I though about focussing on a dimmer star instead).

For most other purposes IFF the lenses were of the same quality (hopefully smaller size), iff the battery lasted just as long, iff I could get all the other things I like about dslrs (accessories, TC80, RC6, speedlites, flash-sync plug, +/- EV bracketing, (at least) 3 custom modes, IS), iff (and when) the AF gets fast enough to rival a 7D, iff it was in a body size/shape I could carry around all day (frankly, my 7D and 70-300L is a very easy combo to hike with), and iff it did all this for a reasonable price with at least an aps-c or bigger sensor, then i'd certainly love a mirrorless.


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## JoeDavid (May 7, 2012)

I don't think there's any way that Canon will release a mirrorless that is FF. If they did they would charge way too much for it... If I had my wishes I'd like to see one with the APS-C or, better yet, APS-H sensor size. That 4/3 proportioned (but larger than 4/3 standard format) sensor in the G1 X is just about the craziest thing they have ever done. I know there was a lot of hype about the G1 X and that the image quality was quite good but I found it interesting that Best Buy listed it for a couple of months before it was release and then deleted it from their site once it actually started shipping. Sort of makes you wonder about the mass market appeal of the thing. My guess is that Canon is lining up another oddity to not cannibalize their DSLR market...


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## Neeneko (May 7, 2012)

JoeDavid said:


> My guess is that Canon is lining up another oddity to not cannibalize their DSLR market...



This seems likely.
When companies are more concerned about not cannibalizing their own departments then with the overall health of the company, they are getting ready to have a decline. At the moment it feels like the bulk of Canon's new offerings are designed to not impact the sales of other departments, which has produced a loop of lackluster products that are pretty much designed to not be competitive.

Question is, will they get their act together before another company steals significant share from them? Will they go the Nikon route and stay relevent but smaller, eventually improving again.. or Kodak's route of... well.. Kodak is a complex story....


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## ecka (May 7, 2012)

JoeDavid said:


> I don't think there's any way that Canon will release a mirrorless that is FF. If they did they would charge way too much for it... If I had my wishes I'd like to see one with the APS-C or, better yet, APS-H sensor size. That 4/3 proportioned (but larger than 4/3 standard format) sensor in the G1 X is just about the craziest thing they have ever done. I know there was a lot of hype about the G1 X and that the image quality was quite good but I found it interesting that Best Buy listed it for a couple of months before it was release and then deleted it from their site once it actually started shipping. Sort of makes you wonder about the mass market appeal of the thing. My guess is that Canon is lining up another oddity to not cannibalize their DSLR market...



And how is APS-H any better? I always felt like it was the worst choice for wide-normal FLs (the ones you would normally use on a mirrorless camera). There is no decent non-L fast-50 Canon equivalent for APS-H (IMHO 35/2 is pretty bad). I guess that 28/1.8USM is a decent 35 on 1.3 crop, but that's all... It may be acceptable if they produce some nice APS-H format primes (like 12mm, 28mm, 40mm, 75mm), but then again it would fail at adapting EF/EF-S lenses (in term of vignetting, black edges and awkward FLs) and that's a deal-breaker for someone like me.


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## ecka (May 7, 2012)

Neeneko said:


> JoeDavid said:
> 
> 
> > My guess is that Canon is lining up another oddity to not cannibalize their DSLR market...
> ...



10 years from now we'll have threads like "What is Kodak? "
;D


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## moreorless (May 7, 2012)

Neeneko said:


> When companies are more concerned about not cannibalizing their own departments then with the overall health of the company, they are getting ready to have a decline. At the moment it feels like the bulk of Canon's new offerings are designed to not impact the sales of other departments, which has produced a loop of lackluster products that are pretty much designed to not be competitive.
> 
> Question is, will they get their act together before another company steals significant share from them? Will they go the Nikon route and stay relevent but smaller, eventually improving again.. or Kodak's route of... well.. Kodak is a complex story....



Theres a difference between this and people on the net becoming upset because the reality didnt live up to their personal hype of a product that delivered everything they desire at a knockdown price.

If anything I'd say just the reverse is true of the 1DX and 5D mk3, there actually cameras that do step on each others toes far more than had been expected with the latters improved AF and FPS. The disapointement for many has been that we havent thus far seen a FF DSLR that offers greater resolution.


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## Neeneko (May 7, 2012)

moreorless said:


> Theres a difference between this and people on the net becoming upset because the reality didnt live up to their personal hype of a product that delivered everything they desire at a knockdown price.



Within the current context I was more referring to how Canon will likely approach the mirrorless market given their past statements. Though for the 5D3 and 1DX it could be argued that they are going through some hoops to not step on their various video offerings. On the other hand their various video lines seem to be eating each other......


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## c.d.embrey (May 7, 2012)

JoeDavid said:


> My guess is that Canon is lining up another oddity to not cannibalize their DSLR market...



One of Steve Jobs's *business rules* was to never be afraid of cannibalizing yourself. *"If you don't cannibalize yourself, someone else will," * http://yastrow.com/nlarchive/2011/cannibalize-yourself-12-20-11.html

The DSLR market is flat, but growth is occurring in the in the mirrorless market -- so canon needs to go there. But not with their *typical "no-cannibalizing-allowed" attitude*. Lets hope they get it right, 'cause if they don't someone will eat their lunch.


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## moreorless (May 7, 2012)

dilbert said:


> moreorless said:
> 
> 
> > If anything I'd say just the reverse is true of the 1DX and 5D mk3, there actually cameras that do step on each others toes far more than had been expected with the latters improved AF and FPS. The disapointement for many has been that we havent thus far seen a FF DSLR that offers greater resolution.
> ...



Is that a product of Canon crippling a product to protect the market of another though? the 5D mk3 offers a better combination of AF and FPS than any other FF DSLR in the same price/size range has done. The 1D line on the other hand has remained competitive by moving to FF and upping its FPS to 12 rather than depending on lower level bodies being crippled.

Canon's problem seems to be that Nikon/Sony are targeting the high resolution market and they have so far not released a rival product.


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## JoeDavid (May 8, 2012)

ecka said:


> And how is APS-H any better? I always felt like it was the worst choice for wide-normal FLs (the ones you would normally use on a mirrorless camera). There is no decent non-L fast-50 Canon equivalent for APS-H (IMHO 35/2 is pretty bad). I guess that 28/1.8USM is a decent 35 on 1.3 crop, but that's all... It may be acceptable if they produce some nice APS-H format primes (like 12mm, 28mm, 40mm, 75mm), but then again it would fail at adapting EF/EF-S lenses (in term of vignetting, black edges and awkward FLs) and that's a deal-breaker for someone like me.



I shoot FF most of the time but I still enjoy shooting with my 1DM4 which is, of course, APS-H. In a mirrorless body I'll take the largest sensor Canon is willing to put into it and, yes, I do shoot with L glass most of the time. I'd be quite happy with a 1.3x sensor mirrorless body to use with the 14/2.8L, 24/1.4L, 35/1.4L, 50/1.2L... you get the idea. Don't get me wrong, I'll take a mirrorless that is FF but I don't think Canon will produce one. I don't really think they'll use APS-H either, so it will end up being something that I may buy as a backup for traveling light but not as my primary camera...


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## ecka (May 8, 2012)

JoeDavid said:


> ecka said:
> 
> 
> > And how is APS-H any better? I always felt like it was the worst choice for wide-normal FLs (the ones you would normally use on a mirrorless camera). There is no decent non-L fast-50 Canon equivalent for APS-H (IMHO 35/2 is pretty bad). I guess that 28/1.8USM is a decent 35 on 1.3 crop, but that's all... It may be acceptable if they produce some nice APS-H format primes (like 12mm, 28mm, 40mm, 75mm), but then again it would fail at adapting EF/EF-S lenses (in term of vignetting, black edges and awkward FLs) and that's a deal-breaker for someone like me.
> ...



Nice L-prime collection . However, those are pretty big and heavy lenses (expensive too) and I think that 5D3 is a better match considering the whole system size. That's why I would like to use non-L and manual primes on FF mirrorless. I just hope that it would cost less than $2000 ($1999?  )


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## Dylan777 (May 8, 2012)

Canon Rumors said:


> <div name="googleone_share_1" style="position:relative;z-index:5;float: right; /*margin: 70px 0 0 0;*/ top:70px; right:120px; width:0;"><glusone size="tall" count="1" href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/05/canon-mirrorless-information-cr1/"></glusone></div><div id="fb_share_1" style="float: right; margin: 0 0px 0 10px;"><a name="fb_share" type="box_count" share_url="http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/05/canon-mirrorless-information-cr1/" href="http://www.facebook.com/sharer.php">Share</a></div><div><script src="http://static.ak.fbcdn.net/connect.php/js/FB.Share" type="text/javascript"></script></div><div class="tweetmeme_button" style="float: right; margin-left: 10px; margin-bottom: 70px;"><a class="tm_button" rel="&style=normal&b=2" href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2012/05/canon-mirrorless-information-cr1/"></a></div>
> <strong>It’s been a while
> 
> 
> ...



I'll take one with APS-C sensor size.


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## Rocky (May 10, 2012)

Until Canon can solve theslow AF problem, The format of the sensor will be a mute point. In order to keep the size small APS-H sensor is a good compromise. Canon will come up a set of new lens. Therefore wide angle lens should be readily available,


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## Rocky (May 11, 2012)

dilbert said:


> Rocky said:
> 
> 
> > Until Canon can solve theslow AF problem, The format of the sensor will be a mute point. In order to keep the size small APS-H sensor is a good compromise. Canon will come up a set of new lens. Therefore wide angle lens should be readily available,
> ...


Nikon have it does not meanCanon can use it. Nikon may not let anyone use it. It is their trump card for mirrorless.


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