# Yet another crop vs full frame thread



## Nelu (Dec 4, 2014)

I`ve spent more time than I wish to admit trying to find a satisfactory answer to this dilemma: crop sensor camera or a cropped photo from a full frame camera for bird or wildlife photography?
Since I own both the 7D (not Mark II, but the original one) and the 5D Mark III I performed a _*NON-SCIENTIFIC*_ test using my Canon 300mm f2.8 EF USM II lens, on a bright, sunny winter day.
The result is attached so you can see the difference for yourself.
The screenshot is taken in Lightroom. I selected both shots, hit the "C" key for compare and zoomed in to 100%.
Of course, the distance to the subject (mail boxes) is exactly the same.
I`ll let you decide which image has the most detail, the one on the right or on the left. Of course, it`s easy to figure out which one is from the 7D and which from the 5D Mark III


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## AcutancePhotography (Dec 4, 2014)

That's an easy dilemma to answer. 

Answer: Whichever, you as the photographer, prefer. 
And I am only being 1% snarky. There is no "best" way. If you as the photographer are happy with the results of using a crop camera for one particular type of photography, that's what you should use. If, on the other hand, you are happy with the results of a FF camera cropped... you get the idea. 

As the photographer you are the artist. You decide. If you are a professional, then it depends on what your client prefers, since they are paying for it.  

But since the "value" of a photograph is subjective, so is the answer to your question.


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## Maximilian (Dec 5, 2014)

Sorry, but I think this has been discussed to death in other threads.

IMHO the left photo needs AFMA. And did you compensate the different DOF with different apertures? Etc.
So your comparison is off. Sorry to say that it's not done by just taking two fast shots and compare.
Everything else can be read in the other threads.

And I second the statement of AcutancePhotography.


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## Nelu (Dec 8, 2014)

Maximilian said:


> Sorry to say that it's not done by just taking two fast shots and compare.



Well, that`s exactly what you do when you take bird photos. You don`t have time for pixel-peeping, all you have to do is to take the shot.
The question was a simple one: which photo has more detail?
To me the answer is obvious, no matter the DOF or the aperture. In this particular situation the crop sensor camera provides more detail. Period!
Yes, if you take into consideration many cases when a high ISO is required, the extra detail provided by the noisier crop sensor might vanish. In bright daylight though it`s a no-brainer: even the 7D is a better choice for bird photography than a full frame camera.
I have them both and I can say that this is the only case when I choose the 7D over the 5D Mark III.
"Scientific tests" performed by taking shots of charts hanging on a wall in "controlled" light...useless, that`s not what happens out in the field...


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## Marsu42 (Dec 8, 2014)

Nelu said:


> "Scientific tests" performed by taking shots of charts hanging on a wall in "controlled" light...useless, that`s not what happens out in the field...



... exactly, so you have to fix some issues in post. That's when ff sensors are noticeably better than crop, they provide more leverage and working with gradient, colors and detail leaves often might leave you with better results. Again, *after* post-processing, not sooc.


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## AlanF (Dec 8, 2014)

I have tested my 7D and then 70D exhaustively against my 5DIII, using the 300mm f/2.8 II, ± TCs, 100-400mm L, Tamron 150-600 etc. First, I have never had such a rubbishy image as from the OP's 5DIII with the 300 - something is really wrong. Secondly, you need a lens as sharp as the 300/2.8 to get the best out of the crop. As soon as you use a softer lens, the crop goes to pot. the 100-400 on the crop was always disappointing but was pretty good on the 5DIII. The 150-600 on the 5DIII is pretty good, but at 600 on the 70d, disappointing. Just look at the DxO charts on the lenses on the 7/70D vs 5DIII. The 300/2.8 loses little on going from ff to crop, but the 150-600 falls apart.


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## sdsr (Dec 8, 2014)

Nelu said:


> Maximilian said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry to say that it's not done by just taking two fast shots and compare.
> ...



Yes, but it's not clear why - as others have noted, the 5DIII image looks worse than it should, for whatever reason. And if you're going to make such a comparison, you should crop the FF image so that it matches the APS-C one. Your response to Maximilian misses the point - to test whether FF cropped or APS-C uncropped is better, taking casual photos isn't the way to do it; you make a careful comparison in circumstances that allow it and then apply the results in the field.


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## Joe J (Dec 8, 2014)

Nelu said:


> Maximilian said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry to say that it's not done by just taking two fast shots and compare.
> ...



LOL. Simple answers from simple-brained people? Please don't insult your own intelligence in front of many readers here who understand the basics of FF vs. crop; you are just opening a can of worms, and will get berated by many, many people.  You shoot photos of birds... you like the reach of a crop sensor... crop sensor works best for you... that is your opinion... end of story. No need to make a thread about that. Wrong time period... it's not 2006 buddy.


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## Nelu (Dec 8, 2014)

Joe J said:


> Nelu said:
> 
> 
> > Maximilian said:
> ...



Buddy, you should start by actually learning to read 
I said that for bird photography, in bright daylight the 7D provided more detail than the 5D Mark III from the same distance. Do you need me to draw something for you so that even you can understand it?


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## Maximilian (Dec 9, 2014)

Nelu said:


> Maximilian said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry to say that it's not done by just taking two fast shots and compare.
> ...


What do you mean? 
To use high performant equipment (either 5D3 or 7D), use it uncalibrated (AFMA) and therefore OOF and shoot with aperture wide open to get a maximum difference in DOF, call this a test shot and take the wrong conclusions out of it because of the wrong testing methods?
Not me. I try to use equipment I understand, configured and calibrated for the purpose I want to use it for.
But only if I want to get good pictures.



> The question was a simple one: which photo has more detail?
> To me the answer is obvious, no matter the DOF or the aperture. In this particular situation the crop sensor camera provides more detail. Period!


"Period!" is always a great argument when you ask others about their opinion. Thank you.
So then be happy and live with your opinion. I didn't want to persuade or convince you to anything other 
but one thing:
You didn't use any kind of test methodics and you didn't even tell us anything about your settings. 
And this is not a matter of 


> "Scientific tests" performed by taking shots of charts hanging on a wall in "controlled" light...useless, that`s not what happens out in the field...


but in understanding and using optical equipment properly - also "out in the field".

* So therefore you don't get any kind of result worth while to discuss in detail. *

And I only wanted to tell you this.


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