# One Samsung Camera to Rule Them All



## Jon_D (Nov 2, 2014)

> Samsung is making a statement with the recently announced NX1, and that statement is, “pros, we’re ready for you.” Up till now, any pros who wanted to use Samsung gear — and there are some that do — have had to settle for prosumer bodies designed more for the first time buyer than the seasoned pro.
> 
> With the introduction of the NX1, that status quo is no more, and a little bit of time with this incredibly powerful new body drives that point home splendidly.
> 
> We only had about 25 to 30 minutes to play around with the camera during our meeting with Samsung at PhotoPlus, but you don’t need more than a few minutes to realize that this camera is Samsung’s crown jewel.




more:

http://petapixel.com/2014/11/01/hands-samsungs-nx1-one-samsung-camera-rule/


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## danski0224 (Nov 2, 2014)

Is the support there for professional use, like Canon CPS or the Nikon equal?

I have some familiarity with their consumer appliances, and reliability and service could use some improvement.

I have a Samsung phone, and while it works, it certainly feels cheap and plastiky.

Competition is good, but I suspect that not too many professionals earning a living with Canon or Nikon gear will be jumping ship anytime soon.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 2, 2014)

Interesting that you allude to Middle Earth – the home of trolls – in your title. :


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## expatinasia (Nov 3, 2014)

> And though we didn’t dive far into the video features, it’s safe to say filmmakers will be drooling over this camera with as much gusto as the rest of us.





The (very poor) article is just search engine fodder, but despite that, I have to say that in my eyes Samsung has a *lot* of work to do if it wants to attract any of my business. When I pass camera shops and glance in, I instantly dismiss anything with Samsung written on it.

I like their phones, TVs, fridges and other stuff, but the only camera manufacturer I am really keeping my eye on apart from Canon (and Nikon to some extent), is Sony, and even then the chance of me replacing my lenses and main bodies for Sony is very, very small.


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## risc32 (Nov 3, 2014)

i stopped visiting petapixel about a year ago. to many articles written by the clueless for the clueless. 
i'm going to be watching the ravens-steelers game in a few minutes. i'll be on the lookout for sideline photogs running samsung. i won't be holding my breath.


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## bgosselin (Nov 3, 2014)

risc32 said:


> i stopped visiting petapixel about a year ago. to many articles written by the clueless for the clueless.



I like reading Petapixel. Should I feel insulted? Please tell me. I have no clue.


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## expatinasia (Nov 3, 2014)

bgosselin said:


> risc32 said:
> 
> 
> > i stopped visiting petapixel about a year ago. to many articles written by the clueless for the clueless.
> ...



I would not feel insulted, I am sure that that is not what risc32 meant. And anyway, life is too short.

You have to admit though that that article is very poorly written with very little meat. It is just search engine fodder.


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## jrista (Nov 3, 2014)

GraFax said:


> Had a chance to play with one for a bit at PhotoPlus. As you would expect from a Samsung, the displays are really outstanding. If I was ready to move away from an OVF I might consider it. Folks I know who have been working with Samsung pre-launch seem to feel like Samsung is going be a serious player. I'm a DSLR guy so not for me at this point but if I was just getting started I can see how this would be an attractive option.
> 
> Samsung, like Canon, has very deep pockets and knows how to carve out a market for themselves. I think Sony should be more concerned about Samsung's push into this space than Canon. A7's seemed kludgey after demoing the Samsung. Of course IMHO all of the mirrorless cameras are a bit kludgey so its relative. Not saying the NX1 hasn't been hyped well beyond it's actual utility. Just saying that if you look past that you can see where Samsung might be a realistic option going forward.




Interesting about your feelings about the Samsung vs. A7 series. I tried an A7s, and didn't really like the ergos, size, etc. I'm even more interested in the NX1 now, given its specs. I agree that about the mirror and OVF...I really, really love having an optical viewfinder. That said, how did the Samsung EVF compare to the A7 EVF? I felt as though (at least by default) the A7r was constantly throwing too much information at me, and the EVF stuttered more than I would like (which, really, is zero stutter period. )


I would never jump ship, however I would seriously consider adding an NX1 if it panned out as a good camera. I'm also extremely intrigued to see how well the ISOCELL BSI APS-C sensor performs. I'm hoping it is a solid competitor to Sony and Toshiba sensors, with the added edge that it gets effectively 100% fill factor.


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## eml58 (Nov 3, 2014)

I think this may well be an interesting Camera, certainly if I was considering an apsc sensor body (Nikon D7100/Canon 7D II), I would have a serious look at what Samsung have done here. And this review may give a little more info than the one listed earlier in the post.

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/samsung-nx1

Having just looked at the 7DMK II, it's hard not to shake my head in frustration at just what Samsung seem to have been able to include into the NX1 and what Canon seem to have simply left out. Understood a list of specs isn't everything in a Camera Body, but it's a pretty good start in my view.

If Samsung can bring this to Market with a reasonable range of Lenses, they may well have a serious alternative to the Nikon/Canon variants, the 15fps & 28MP sensor plus what looks to be a pretty decent EVF & built in WiFi all go to being a pretty serious Camera.

It would not be a contender for myself as I'm simply happy with the 1Dx and the hope that Canon will produce a higher MP Body some time this Century, But I'll certainly look at replacing my Sons 6D with the NX1 once I've actually seen some Images from that 28MP sensor.


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## bgosselin (Nov 3, 2014)

expatinasia said:


> I would not feel insulted, I am sure that that is not what risc32 meant. And anyway, life is too short.
> 
> You have to admit though that that article is very poorly written with very little meat. It is just search engine fodder.



I was just joking. I don't feel insulted. Not that easily.

I do beleive that in a neer futur sport camera will be mirroless.

Faster fps, possibility of using focal reducer on crop sensor to increase light. 

Just need better EVF. It's getting there fast.

Canon and Nikon are just slow getting there. They will when they feel enought pressure. Good thing they have lens.


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## djrocks66 (Nov 3, 2014)

I played with the NX1 at Photoplus yesterday and I have to say it felt like a toy compared to the Canon and Nikon cameras. I really was hoping to like it but it was just not there yet in my opinion. I know the specs are awesome and the innovation is ahead of the current Canons but as a camera and tool I would rather use a little outdated tech and a better tool. I hope they keep making better cameras though... Maybe the big guys will start to innovate more.


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## drmikeinpdx (Nov 3, 2014)

Going by my experience with my Samsung Galaxy 4, I bet their new camera has wi-fi capability. I would also guess that you won't be able to keep Samsung from doing forced downloads of profitable bloatware. I can just imagine myself photographing a hot model and having an ad for a some new ride sharing service take over my LCD screen!


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## jrista (Nov 3, 2014)

I'm very, very curious to see how the Samsung NX1 turns out once this hits the streets:


http://petapixel.com/2014/11/01/sneak-peek-samsung-300mm-f2-8-hasnt-officially-announced-yet/


If Samsung can make competitive high-grade superteles for the NX1, they could become a viable alternative to Canon and Nikon for sports cameras. Their EVF will REALLY have to PERFORM, and I'm rather skeptical that it will perform at a high enough level (low enough lag and no stutter)...but still. Very interesting. I can't wait till I can rent one of these...and the 300mm lens once it's released.


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## Jon_D (Nov 3, 2014)

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2014/10/31/exclusive-samsung-nx1-hands-on-and-samples-with-production-quality-firmware




> But I have to say how great it is to have a camera that lets you attempt -- and succeed -- at shots you simply couldn't get with lesser equipment. I've only had a few hours with the Samsung NX1 as I write this, but for me, it delivered that experience. The ultimate comparative evaluation will depend on how it does in our exhaustive tests in a controlled, laboratory environment, but out in the real world, I was so pleased with so many of the shots it let me capture that I'd buy one on the strength of that experience alone. (For me, the measure of a successful photo is whether it makes me smile when I look at it again later. I'm smiling a lot this afternoon, going back through my shots from last night and this morning.


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## Lawliet (Nov 3, 2014)

jrista said:


> Their EVF will REALLY have to PERFORM, and I'm rather skeptical that it will perform at a high enough level (low enough lag and no stutter)



5ms lag according to the specs, fits well with being able to process 240fps.
With a little detail for the low light shooters: system lag is the sum of lag in camera and the reponse time of the cone cells in the retina. The latter depends on the light intensity. Chances are that you end up with actually less lag then via OVF.


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## jrista (Nov 3, 2014)

Lawliet said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > Their EVF will REALLY have to PERFORM, and I'm rather skeptical that it will perform at a high enough level (low enough lag and no stutter)
> ...




I don't think you can have less lag than OVF...the lag in OVF is the response time of light itself moving through space. There is no digital processing involved at all...it's literally "real time". There is no lag imposed by the camera itself when using an OVF. 


The average response time may be 5ms, but my concern with EVFs is when the image processing pipeline that renders to the EVF screen gets bogged down. The A7r has one of the best EVFs on the market, and at it's best, it's response time is great. But it's still a limited system, and at worst, the A7r EVF stutters and tears like mad. 


For me, EVFs have to achieve a _worst case_ performance of say 5ms response before I think they could really be used for action photography.


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## msm (Nov 3, 2014)

jrista said:


> I don't think you can have less lag than OVF...the lag in OVF is the response time of light itself moving through space. There is no digital processing involved at all...it's literally "real time". There is no lag imposed by the camera itself when using an OVF.
> 
> 
> The average response time may be 5ms, but my concern with EVFs is when the image processing pipeline that renders to the EVF screen gets bogged down. The A7r has one of the best EVFs on the market, and at it's best, it's response time is great. But it's still a limited system, and at worst, the A7r EVF stutters and tears like mad.
> ...



EVF will always be more laggy than OVF. But is that really so important? More important than the 35-55ms minimum shutter lag (1DX numbers) in a DSLR because the mirror needs to move away before you can take pictures? With electronic shutters mirrorless cameras can totally beat that. I hope that we'll see mirrorless with electronic global shutter soon. But if it is true that the Samsung can do a full readout 240 times a second on the NX1 like they claim then they should already be able to make an electronic rolling shutter as fast as most mechanical FP shutters.

With electronic shutter there would be no mechanical parts limiting the frame rate either, so the readout speed is the limit, that means shooting at 30fps or faster should be no problem.


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## Lawliet (Nov 3, 2014)

jrista said:


> I don't think you can have less lag than OVF...the lag in OVF is the response time of light itself moving through space. There is no digital processing involved at all...it's literally "real time". There is no lag imposed by the camera itself when using an OVF.



There is the Pulfrich-effect - the same variable delay in your visual system thats behind this also affects you while using an OVF. The light hits your retina with a bit of delay, but the nerve impulse caused by it arrives earlier at your brain if the EVF provides you with a stronger stimulus then the OVF. When you have higher ISOs or dark lenses then the OVF takes the second place in that race.


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## rs (Nov 3, 2014)

msm said:


> EVF will always be more laggy than OVF. But is that really so important? More important than the 35-55ms minimum shutter lag (1DX numbers) in a DSLR because the mirror needs to move away before you can take pictures? With electronic shutters mirrorless cameras can totally beat that.


If you have a DSLR with zero lag in the viewfinder and small shutter lag vs a mythical mirrorless with small viewfinder lag and (somehow) zero shutter lag, that viewfinder lag has a two pronged effect: firstly, you're viewing everything _after_ it happened, so no matter how fast the shutter, the camera induced delay between observing the decisive moment and the shutter firing is still there. And secondly, the viewfinder delay also negatively impacts tracking.


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## jrista (Nov 3, 2014)

Lawliet said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think you can have less lag than OVF...the lag in OVF is the response time of light itself moving through space. There is no digital processing involved at all...it's literally "real time". There is no lag imposed by the camera itself when using an OVF.
> ...




Your talking about the behavior of the human eye. That is external to the camera, and has nothing to do with ADDITIONAL lag imposed by the device. I'm talking about lag imposed by the camera itself...which is stacked on top of any other lag. Personally, when I use an EVF, I can FEEL the lag, every EVF I've tried so far is no where even remotely close to as responsive as an OVF. It isn't just lag, either...it's the way information on EVFs tend to render...there are pixel artifacts, column overlap (the same information gets written to neighboring columns during panning), etc. All of this creates a very displeasing effect and response when photographing action.


I also strongly dispute the notion that OVFs are poor for high ISO usage. I do astrophotography. Giving my eyes time to adjust, I can see and frame stars with the OVF extremely well. EVF? Live View? I'm lucky if I can see even one star because the noise levels of the screen are dictated by the sensor capabilities. I can see a lot of stars with my bare eyes and an OVF when framing for astro. Same goes for using an OVF in darker scenes...ZERO noise in the OVF. If you are shooting sports indoors, for example, it would be a simple matter of slapping on a pair of glasses, and lifting them up when looking through the viewfinder...your eyes would always be adjusted for the lower levels of light coming through the OVF. Same trick could be done for nighttime street photography, or any other low light photography (I've done that for shooting wildlife in the hour after sunset.) An EVF in these circumstances? Noise central!




msm said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > I don't think you can have less lag than OVF...the lag in OVF is the response time of light itself moving through space. There is no digital processing involved at all...it's literally "real time". There is no lag imposed by the camera itself when using an OVF.
> ...




I'm not concerned about shutter lag. My biggest concern is when tracking in on a moving subject...say a bird or running deer....BEFORE starting my sequence of shots. The performance of the EVF in that lead time...and the follow up time after a burst and before the next...is where things usually fall apart. Any additional lag over and above the zero lag of an OVF can be at least "felt", if not seen. I could feel the lag with the A7s every single time I put my eye to the viewfinder. With lots of action, the processing pipeline that fed information to the EVF would start dropping data or get bogged down, resulting in stutter or tearing...both of which utterly decimate the whole entire experience. 


There were some benefits...say real-time DOF preview, and maybe some focus assist features. But, in the end, I would happily give up any extra features just to have a viewfinder that responds instantaneously. My brain takes care of all the other biological effects Lawliet is trying to inject into the equation...those are completely beyond out control, and they are not apparent in my personal experiences with EVFs. It's the added layer of lag that an EVF imposes above and beyond the instantaneous response of an OVF, coupled with the rendering artifacts and other problems like stutter and tear that currently put my off of EVFs. They may someday solve all of these problems...and maybe the Samsung EVF is better than Sony's A7 line EVFs...but until I see some significant improvement overall, it's just a headache (literally...all those issues literally caused me a headach when I was using the A7r).


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## Lawliet (Nov 3, 2014)

jrista said:


> Your talking about the behavior of the human eye. That is external to the camera, and has nothing to do with ADDITIONAL lag imposed by the device.



Thats a misconception! While external its also influenced by the camera.
The behavior of you eyes changes with the luminous flux - once the EVF puts significantly more photons on your retina the lag caused by your eyes decreases compared to the OVF. For the lag between the world and your brain you need the sum of both viewfinder- and your own lag. 

What you experience happens when the camera can't raise the sensitivity to a degree that allows for a proper exposure while retaining high frame rates an thus chooses to expose longer. But you couldn't shoot action under such circumstances anyway, at least w/o relying completely on flash.


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## slclick (Nov 3, 2014)

All I could think after reading this was 'One Emerson radio to rule them All'


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## gadgeteer (Nov 3, 2014)

I used to own the Sony A55 & A77. I have to say that I really do love the EVF. It's a feature I still really miss. I love having the 'idiot proof' exposure view. So if I forget to change my ISO when I step out of the church then I can see instantly I'm WAY off. And vice versa.

I also loved being able to see the shot I took inside the viewfinder which helped immensely on sunny days and also people stay stood still when you have your camera to your eye. Once you move it away, people start moving around. So for group shots an EVF is a great help.

That said if I was a sports shooter I wouldn't be so happy with it. The lag was noticeable.

But the NX-1 does look like a very compelling camera. Samsung could be on to something here.


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