# EOS 5D Mark IV Registered with Indonesian Certification Authority



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jul 14, 2016)

```
It looks like the Canon EOS 5D Mark IV has been registered with the Indonesian Certification Authority, this generally happens a few months before the announcement of a product. We can confirm that the DS126601 is one of the internal names for the EOS 5D Mark IV.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/postel_201607_canon.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-full wp-image-26117" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/postel_201607_canon.jpg" alt="postel_201607_canon" width="500" height="106" /></a></p>
<p>Canon’s registration details</p>
<ul>
<li>Equipment: Digital camera</li>
<li>Model name: Canon DS126601</li>
<li>Manufacturing: Japan</li>
<li>Date: July 1, 2016</li>
</ul>
<p>The registered camera will have Wifi and GPS onboard, a long rumoured featureset of the EOS 5D Mark IV.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/ncc_canon_ds126601.jpg"><img class="aligncenter size-medium wp-image-26116" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/ncc_canon_ds126601-397x575.jpg" alt="ncc_canon_ds126601" width="397" height="575" srcset="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/ncc_canon_ds126601-397x575.jpg 397w, http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2016/07/ncc_canon_ds126601.jpg 500w" sizes="(max-width: 397px) 100vw, 397px" /></a></p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## kphoto99 (Jul 14, 2016)

Just 2.4, no 5Ghz band for WiFi, so no AC support.


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## monsieur_elegante (Jul 14, 2016)

Indonesian? That certificate is Taiwanese.

Edit: I assume the screenshot of the table is from the Indonesian authority(?) Certificate screenshot is definitely from 2015-12-11 of the Taiwanese authority approving the wireless module for use in DS126601


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## mnclayshooter (Jul 14, 2016)

monsieur_elegante said:


> Indonesian? That certificate is Taiwanese.
> 
> Edit: I assume the print screen of the table is from the Indonesian authority (?) Certificate screenshot is from 2015-12-11 of the Taiwanese authority approving the wireless module for use in DS126601



Regardless - any help on translation? My pan-Asian language skills are a bit rusty.


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## monsieur_elegante (Jul 14, 2016)

mnclayshooter said:


> monsieur_elegante said:
> 
> 
> > Indonesian? That certificate is Taiwanese.
> ...



Nothing particularly useful in the Taiwanese certificate. States some basic specs and that the wireless antenna is "fixed" (as in non-articulating), and lists some legal limitation of the certificate (such as that users would not be allowed to modify the wireless frequency or increase the antenna gain, etc). It says that this module is to be used in "Canon DS126601" but otherwise gives no info about the camera body.

I should also note that the Taiwanese certificate is not a registration of any kind for the 5DIV (or any camera body), just an approval/registration for the particular wireless module.


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## ahsanford (Jul 14, 2016)

Brand-name obsessives will still cling to their blankets that this does not out the 5D4. 

It's just a new camera, technically -- it could be anything, right?

- A


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## Maximilian (Jul 14, 2016)

*yawn*
nothing new
nothing important
nothing to stop and read
*moved on*

ps.: wow! seems a boring rumors time if such a story gets the headlines!


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## jebrady03 (Jul 14, 2016)

I'm curious to know what happened to the 5D X that so many people swore was coming


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## ahsanford (Jul 14, 2016)

Maximilian said:


> *yawn*
> nothing new
> nothing important
> nothing to stop and read
> ...



At this point, I wonder what reveal would truly _delight_ folks. 


Any MP count will be too high for the high ISO camp and too low for the detail-obsessives.
High fps burst would be loved by some, but others would fret about shutter counts racking up too fast.
People bicker all the time about new memory card types -- faster/better cards also drive the need to buy those new cards, new readers, etc.
4K drives stills-only shooters to cry about paying extra for a feature they'll never use, and to not offer 4K in late 2016 would seem to be madness.

Tilty-flippy would delight folks much more than it would wind people up, I think, but there's no hard read on whether we'll get that or not.

Backlit buttons would be awesome as well.

Spot-metering at any AF point would be nearly singlehandedly upgrade-worthy for 5D3 users. (Sorry, got carried away. )

- A


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## ahsanford (Jul 14, 2016)

jebrady03 said:


> I'm curious to know what happened to the 5D X that so many people swore was coming



Again -- this announcement does not confirm the name will be 5D4. I think it will be called 5D4, for the record, but this announcement did not confirm that unless I missed something.

- A


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## tron (Jul 14, 2016)

jebrady03 said:


> I'm curious to know what happened to the 5D X that so many people swore was coming


 ;D


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 14, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> At this point, I wonder what reveal would truly _delight_ folks.



The list is short.


A launch price tag lower than $2400.

It's not going to happen, but hey, you asked...


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## ahsanford (Jul 14, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > At this point, I wonder what reveal would truly _delight_ folks.
> ...



Oh in that case, I'd like respectful debate on political topics on FB, reasonable real estate prices in Los Angeles and a single grocery store that I can get everything my family needs. 

- A


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## gunship01 (Jul 14, 2016)

1) I do not care for any candidate and fear for the future.
2) No reasonable real estate in antiquated LA.
3) Costco.


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## Maximilian (Jul 14, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> Maximilian said:
> 
> 
> > *yawn*
> ...


Hi ahsanford! 

I am following CR now for the third iteration of the 5D (from II to IV). I started reading in 2008 and registered in 2013. 
I never saw such a type post/rumor before. Maybe I was blind but I don't think so. I don't expect much here but not such a waste of server memory. 
Of course it's difficult for Craig/CR to keep people following if Canon restrictions are such as today.
Of course you now can say "Wow! It really really has WiFi and GPS!" because this is a piece of evidence. 
But hey... 
Did you really expect the 5D4 to NOT have WiFi and GPS?

If you've recognized my posts about spec lists and expectations before you probalbly might have recognized me and my opinion as rational, realistic and not somnambulistic.

But now I'll turn around and go to bed (evening time in central Europe) because this is boring me too much.
Good night *yawn*


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 14, 2016)

This module is used in the EOS D1300 (DS126621), and will also apply to a new camera model DS126601. Since CR Guy has confirmed that DS1266901 is a 5D MK IV, it looks like the Wi-Fi is identical to the rebel as far as hardware goes, firmware may be another story.

Its been in development for a long time, and already in use.

Getting Rebel class Wi-Fi is not what I'm looking for in a 5D MK IV.


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## Ozarker (Jul 14, 2016)

jebrady03 said:


> I'm curious to know what happened to the 5D X that so many people swore was coming



I still want to believe the 5D mark IV will be called the 5DX with a 10-12 FPS frame rate. Of course, I can "want" all I want.

I just think 5DX would be a very smart marketing move and a cool name for a high FPS 5D model. Maybe next time around. 5D Mark V just doesn't ring the bell for me. 5DX just has a cool factor.


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## jebrady03 (Jul 14, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> jebrady03 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm curious to know what happened to the 5D X that so many people swore was coming
> ...



The last 5DX rumor was posted on February 29th, 4.5 months ago, and even that rumor, CR said it wasn't going to be called the 5DX. I'd think it's pretty safe to assume it's not going to be called that. Then again, CR also said it wasn't going to be a 28 mp sensor... So who knows!? LOL


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## jebrady03 (Jul 14, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> jebrady03 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm curious to know what happened to the 5D X that so many people swore was coming
> ...



I think it's a cool sounding name too. But keep in mind that outside the Canon world "dx" refers to a crop sensor camera.


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## ahsanford (Jul 14, 2016)

jebrady03 said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > jebrady03 said:
> ...



I'm not voting for anything so much as pointing out the 'soup' of FF names is a little annoying:

1DX2
5DS/5DSR
5D3

In that light, an alternate universe future world of:

1DX2
1DS*
5DX
5DS

...would be a cleaner identity. X = high burst / high ISO, S = pixels pixels pixels. 

As it stands (today), the X vs. S vs. no letter at all (5D3/5D4) confounds things a bit, and of course *makes a future gripped high-res rig effectively unnameable given the prior 1Ds line, so heaven knows what Canon was thinking.

My money's still firmly on it being a 5D4 and a slightly confusing naming system sticking around.

- A


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## IglooEater (Jul 14, 2016)

I'm rooting for it being The 5D IV, because the next iteration after that could be the 5D V, and that sounds pretty cool to me ;P


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## IglooEater (Jul 14, 2016)

Canon Rumors said:


> It looks like the Canon EOS 5D Mark IV has been registered with the Indonesian Certification Authority, this generally happens a few months before the announcement of a product. We can confirm that the DS126601 is one of the internal names for the EOS 5D Mark IV.



No. Say it ain't so. :'(


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## ahsanford (Jul 14, 2016)

IglooEater said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > It looks like the Canon EOS 5D Mark IV has been registered with the Indonesian Certification Authority, this generally happens a few months before the announcement of a product. We can confirm that the DS126601 is one of the internal names for the EOS 5D Mark IV.
> ...



Apple and Samsung used to get 'outed' like this for new products because of domestic (US) FCC filings, which usually are a few months in advance of release. 

With cell phones, _what the communication tech is_ often is a major strategic tell (LTE, NFC, etc.), so Apple and others tend to announce their products around the time of FCC public disclosures unless something has changed recently that I missed.

But folks like Canon can let this small cat out of the bag as Wifi/GPS is just a sliver of what a camera offers. They can let this go and withhold announcing the new rig if they want to minimize the downtime between announcement and availability.

- A


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## lino (Jul 14, 2016)

I am happy If they could get all of those dots linked to spot metering .. rest all , I'm happy with the 5d3 :-\


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## wsmith96 (Jul 14, 2016)

kphoto99 said:


> Just 2.4, no 5Ghz band for WiFi, so no AC support.



Nope - looks like it's 802.11n which is a good choice for WLAN compatibility. I agree, ac would be nice, but g/n devices are really common now no matter where you are.

-w


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## IglooEater (Jul 15, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...



Very interesting. Thanks. I guess if this means availability could be quicker I guess that's a good thing. Just that, in my mind, a "few" is at least three or four, so a "few" months ahead puts the 5D IV in October or November. This is a somewhat subjective analysis at best obviously.


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## ahsanford (Jul 15, 2016)

IglooEater said:


> Very interesting. Thanks. I guess if this means availability could be quicker I guess that's a good thing. Just that, in my mind, a "few" is at least three or four, so a "few" months ahead puts the 5D IV in October or November. This is a somewhat subjective analysis at best obviously.



Understand I'm speculating based on what I've read over the years. I deal with the FDA and not the FCC in my day job, so I defer to anyone who actually develops communication products for a living -- they would know better.

- A


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## tron (Jul 15, 2016)

IglooEater said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > IglooEater said:
> ...


... plus the time needed to wait until a bug manifests itself: 

1D3: focusing issues (semi-solved by sending it back and/or firmwware upgrades)
1Dx: debris (solved with sending it back)
1DxII Sandisk issue (solved with firware 1.02)
5D2: spot problem (solved with firmware 1.07)
5D3: Light leak in metering (solved with putting tape inside camera)

That being said I am all for upgrading my two 5D3 cameras to two 5D4 ones  (or a 1DxII and a 5D4)


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## MrToes (Jul 15, 2016)

*I GUESS I'LL BE SELLING ANOTHER KIDNEY SOON. Clients always want discounts, maybe I'll get one from Canon from owning 20+ Canon body's and 40+ "L" lenses in the last 12 years? I'm guessing $3999 for this bad boy including the rebel based hardware!*


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## noms78 (Jul 15, 2016)

When do people think the 5D4 will be released? Is there a big chance it could come in early October?


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## quiquae (Jul 15, 2016)

kphoto99 said:


> Just 2.4, no 5Ghz band for WiFi, so no AC support.



It is nearly impossible to implement a 5GHz wifi base station that is legal everywhere in the world, especially outdoors.


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## tpatana (Jul 15, 2016)

tron said:


> 5D3: Light leak in metering (solved with putting tape inside camera)



Not sure if I'd call that a bug. More like moron-test.


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## Maximilian (Jul 15, 2016)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> ...
> it looks like the Wi-Fi is identical to the rebel as far as hardware goes, firmware may be another story.
> 
> ...
> ...


Do you know if and how much the Wi-Fi module in the 1DX2 differs from the one in the rebels? (I don't)
Could it be the same as well?


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## Berty Rampkin (Jul 15, 2016)

5D Mark iii doesn't have either, whereas 6D already has both WIFI and GPS. Makes sense to keep the 6D ii as the kind of full frame travel camera with the GPS and Wifi, limited focus points, 1/4000, slighter lower pixel count lighter (perhaps slightly better dynamic range and image quality , whereas the 5D iv to be a lot more versatile, better Focus, more AF points, 4k, higher mega pixel count but no the GPS and wifi

I have both 5D Mark iii and 6D - I bought the 6d specifically for my travels for the WIFI and GPS. Its not as dynamic as the 5D. My 5D offers safety of a second memory slot, and better ergonomics, tailored to the professional, so my guess is they would apply similar logic to the next inline models?

My thoughts are this isn't for the 5D IV - the 6D maybe


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## Chaitanya (Jul 15, 2016)

kphoto99 said:


> Just 2.4, no 5Ghz band for WiFi, so no AC support.



5Ghz band is not compulsory for 802.11ac standard, devices can use 2.4ghz spectrum as well. 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_802.11ac


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## RobPan (Jul 15, 2016)

monsieur_elegante said:


> Indonesian? That certificate is Taiwanese.
> 
> Edit: I assume the screenshot of the table is from the Indonesian authority(?) Certificate screenshot is definitely from 2015-12-11 of the Taiwanese authority approving the wireless module for use in DS126601



Datascrip is the Indonesian Canon distributor, based in Jakarta.


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## kphoto99 (Jul 15, 2016)

Chaitanya said:


> kphoto99 said:
> 
> 
> > Just 2.4, no 5Ghz band for WiFi, so no AC support.
> ...


Is it not mandatory, but how many WiFi chipsets implement AC without also implementing 5gHz?
2.4 is very crowded all high end equipment is moving to 5.


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## Lenscracker (Jul 15, 2016)

I use the 5D3, 5DSr, 7D2, and I have a good stable of lenses for them. As far as I am concerned Canon can take their good ol' time with the new 5D4. The reason is because I now use a new K1 that solves all my problems with using Canons for outdoor macros and close-ups. K1 has GPS, WiFi, switchable AA filter, and a good solid articulating rear LCD screen on a full frame, high res, pixel shift sensor. I am keeping my Canons, but it will be a long time before Canon offers an upgrade that surpasses Pentax K1 for my purposes.


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## grainier (Jul 15, 2016)

Canon Rumors said:


> will have Wifi



It's not like this "wifi" will do anything that might endanger WFT sales.


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## JonAustin (Jul 15, 2016)

MrToes said:


> *I GUESS I'LL BE SELLING ANOTHER KIDNEY SOON.*



How many do you have?


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## JonAustin (Jul 15, 2016)

dilbert said:


> Why do people have to keep making up reasons for "X"...
> 
> The only real thing that "X" represents is a lack of imagination of people in the naming department for digital cameras at all of the Japanese companies ...



... and automotive crossover manufacturers (Lincoln MKX, BMW X5, Chevrolet Equinox (subtle, that one), Subaru XV, Acura RDX, Acura MDX, Volvo XC90, Mazda CX-5 ...)


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## privatebydesign (Jul 15, 2016)

dilbert said:


> Again, for those that are "new" to digital cameras, the 1DX was the result of a merge between the 1D and 1Ds product lines due to confusion about products.
> 
> Obviously Canon couldn't call that camera a "1D" or "1Ds" so they chose the cool sounding (or in vogue) "X". Canon has gone back into the "confusion" territory by releasing the 5Ds (dumbest move ever.) I could totally believe the 5Ds being a single camera line and the new body line for 2017 becoming the new high res camera.



There was never any "confusion" over the 1D and 1Ds lines. The 1Ds was always aimed at the people that wanted the highest resolution, put like that (how it is) the naming of the 5Ds makes perfect sense.

If convention of precedent was followed the 5D line should go to 5DX when they drop the 5Ds Mk? and 5D Mk? and combine them, if previous behaviour is repeated it would be a lower pixel number than the then current 5Ds and a higher frame rate than the then current 5D model.


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## kevl (Jul 15, 2016)

Berty Rampkin said:


> 5D Mark iii doesn't have either, whereas 6D already has both WIFI and GPS. Makes sense to keep the 6D ii as the kind of full frame travel camera with the GPS and Wifi, limited focus points, 1/4000, slighter lower pixel count lighter (perhaps slightly better dynamic range and image quality , whereas the 5D iv to be a lot more versatile, better Focus, more AF points, 4k, higher mega pixel count but no the GPS and wifi
> 
> I have both 5D Mark iii and 6D - I bought the 6d specifically for my travels for the WIFI and GPS. Its not as dynamic as the 5D. My 5D offers safety of a second memory slot, and better ergonomics, tailored to the professional, so my guess is they would apply similar logic to the next inline models?
> 
> My thoughts are this isn't for the 5D IV - the 6D maybe



I hope you are right. I have zero interest in either feature and don't want to pay for them when I will never ever use them.


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## shutterfreek (Jul 15, 2016)

Dude! Wedding Season in the States will be winding down for us by the time this body releases. I need 4K. More importantly, I need 120fps HD. More importantly, I need the body to float on a Ronin M. More importantly, I need to shoot fine art stills with same camera that does all that, in challenged lighting situations. Final decision. Sony a7rII. I'll have to pick up the markIV next year.  Honestly, tired of hearing "very little" about it. It's the only reason I'm coming to the site these days and it's becoming more and more of a disappointment. See you in the fall!


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## RobPan (Jul 15, 2016)

JonAustin said:


> MrToes said:
> 
> 
> > *I GUESS I'LL BE SELLING ANOTHER KIDNEY SOON.*
> ...



Break open the door of his basement and count the prisoners.


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## slclick (Jul 15, 2016)

MrToes said:


> *I GUESS I'LL BE SELLING ANOTHER KIDNEY SOON. Clients always want discounts, maybe I'll get one from Canon from owning 20+ Canon body's and 40+ "L" lenses in the last 12 years? I'm guessing $3999 for this bad boy including the rebel based hardware!*



No. That is ricockulous. Mid $3's for early adopters, no 5 series will be at $4k


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## ahsanford (Jul 15, 2016)

slclick said:


> MrToes said:
> 
> 
> > *I GUESS I'LL BE SELLING ANOTHER KIDNEY SOON. Clients always want discounts, maybe I'll get one from Canon from owning 20+ Canon body's and 40+ "L" lenses in the last 12 years? I'm guessing $3999 for this bad boy including the rebel based hardware!*
> ...



It depends on Canon's perceived value of being the only FF interchangeable rig with 4K under $6k (other than Sony of course).

I see a $3499-ish body-only release like last time, but _if Nikon doesn't put 4K on its D810 follow up_, Canon might get greedy and up the price. But I seriously doubt Nikon won't offer 4K with that follow up -- I think it's a certainty with 4K currently sitting above (D5) and below (D500) the D810 in their portfolio today.

- A


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## JonAustin (Jul 15, 2016)

RobPan said:


> JonAustin said:
> 
> 
> > MrToes said:
> ...



Oh, that's just wrong.


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## Jopa (Jul 15, 2016)

JonAustin said:


> RobPan said:
> 
> 
> > JonAustin said:
> ...



No need to sell a kidney, if you always can sell a retina.


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## RobPan (Jul 15, 2016)

Jopa said:


> JonAustin said:
> 
> 
> > RobPan said:
> ...



And buy a replacement from Samyang?


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## tpatana (Jul 15, 2016)

RobPan said:


> Jopa said:
> 
> 
> > JonAustin said:
> ...



I thought it's Apple who sells them Retinas.


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## IglooEater (Jul 15, 2016)

RobPan said:


> JonAustin said:
> 
> 
> > MrToes said:
> ...


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## clarksbrother (Jul 16, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > Very interesting. Thanks. I guess if this means availability could be quicker I guess that's a good thing. Just that, in my mind, a "few" is at least three or four, so a "few" months ahead puts the 5D IV in October or November. This is a somewhat subjective analysis at best obviously.
> ...



Takes about 3 weeks (sometimes less) for the FCC to give their approval on a radio chipset. (i.e. not long at all). Usually we submit months in advance as you have to include all those certification numbers on item packaging/labeling/manuals/etc and manufacturing ramps up a few months ahead of a launch. That said, you can always manufacture ahead of time, get the approval later and then just slap the stickers on and manuals in last as the last part of localization before shipping the units. Even so - with a launch of this size, it'd be surprising if there was less than 2 months between approval and shipping. I'd expect 3 months minimum but I have no clue what the Canon supply chain looks like.


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## jedy (Jul 16, 2016)

kevl said:


> Berty Rampkin said:
> 
> 
> > 5D Mark iii doesn't have either, whereas 6D already has both WIFI and GPS. Makes sense to keep the 6D ii as the kind of full frame travel camera with the GPS and Wifi, limited focus points, 1/4000, slighter lower pixel count lighter (perhaps slightly better dynamic range and image quality , whereas the 5D iv to be a lot more versatile, better Focus, more AF points, 4k, higher mega pixel count but no the GPS and wifi
> ...


It's always the case that if certain features are added, people will complain they don't want to pay for features they'll never use (video is here to stay!). On the other hand if certain features aren't included, some people will be very unhappy and probably claim they are must have features. With this in mind I personally have learned to just accept a camera for what it is, otherwise I'd never be satisfied. Saying that, no fullscreen HDMI output on my 6D is annoying!


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## IglooEater (Jul 16, 2016)

kevl said:


> Berty Rampkin said:
> 
> 
> > 5D Mark iii doesn't have either, whereas 6D already has both WIFI and GPS. Makes sense to keep the 6D ii as the kind of full frame travel camera with the GPS and Wifi, limited focus points, 1/4000, slighter lower pixel count lighter (perhaps slightly better dynamic range and image quality , whereas the 5D iv to be a lot more versatile, better Focus, more AF points, 4k, higher mega pixel count but no the GPS and wifi
> ...




I don't want GPS or WIFI either, but I think we tend to have a flawed view of what we're paying for. We tend to think we're paying for a bunch of features, while in reality we're actually paying for the camera that has a bunch of features. Those features don't always cost anything at all to the end buyer. Sounds wrong? Imagine if Canon would scrap video completely on the 5D camera. I'd cheer. I don't need video. I don't want video. I don't like video. It would mean Canon wouldn't have to pay for developing a sensor with video readout, video controls on the camera, encoding, and what have you. However, it would kill a large segment of potential buyers, which means less sales. That could necessitate a higher cost/unit in the long run. So in reality, often features I don't want can actually make the camera *less* expensive. More minor features such as GPS and wifi would have similar, albeit smaller effect.
As to any ergonomic implications of having video, I would appreciate it if Canon could allow us to de-activate it and re-assign buttons. However, I'd be willing to live with some minor annoyances if it brings the price of the camera down.


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## fentiger (Jul 16, 2016)

GPS and Wi Fi are a bit like indicators and headlights on cars, they all have them but not everyone uses them :-(


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## slclick (Jul 16, 2016)

fentiger said:


> GPS and Wi Fi are a bit like indicators and headlights on cars, they all have them but not everyone uses them :-(



?

You're confusing safety with convenience in an analogy. That doesn't work for me.

All in all Igloo summed it up very well.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 16, 2016)

IglooEater said:


> Imagine if Canon would scrap video completely on the 5D camera. I'd cheer. I don't need video. I don't want video. I don't like video.



Great idea, because it would also put to rest the naming controversy. Bring on the Canon 5Df...

;D


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 16, 2016)

clarksbrother said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > IglooEater said:
> ...



This is not a chipset, its a complete module, and it has already been approved for use in a Canon Rebel and has been in production for some time. 

All Canon did was tell the FCC that it will be used in a second model, and that it was retested in the new camera and passed, so its a non event. There is nothing new.

Its the link of the model number to a 5D MK IV that is the interesting bit.


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## Diko (Jul 16, 2016)

shutterfreek said:


> ... I need 120fps HD. More importantly, I need the body to float on a Ronin M. More importantly, I need to shoot fine art stills with same camera that does all that, in challenged lighting situations. ....



Amin to that. Better would be 240 fps HD.Come one Canon every new phone comes with that! I need it with L class glass and true optical zoom. Why a Pro DSLR needs so much time to implement something like that????

Additionally challenged lighting situations and wi-fi for general purposed pro body is a must for two years already.


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## privatebydesign (Jul 16, 2016)

Diko said:


> shutterfreek said:
> 
> 
> > ... I need 120fps HD. More importantly, I need the body to float on a Ronin M. More importantly, I need to shoot fine art stills with same camera that does all that, in challenged lighting situations. ....
> ...



I don't want any of that shit, or the associated costs of R&D, heat mitigation development and irrelevant sensor and processing refinements on a still based camera.

The advent of video in DSLR's grew out of the Live View feature, so 'cost' added to the stills camera was marginal and of benefit to the core users. Now unless you do video 2/3rds of model upgrades are entirely useless. I don't give a darn about codecs, video frame rates, headphone sockets, AF in video, dual pixel blah blah blah. Give me stills orientated stills cameras.


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## arthurbikemad (Jul 16, 2016)

Same here, have NO need for video in any way at all! Means nothing to me and tbh I wish canon would keep its video clutter to video specific models, but I guess they have to keep up trends, all I want is a great still camera.


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## IglooEater (Jul 16, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > Imagine if Canon would scrap video completely on the 5D camera. I'd cheer. I don't need video. I don't want video. I don't like video.
> ...



It _would_ solve a number of problems now, wouldn't it..


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## IglooEater (Jul 16, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> I don't want any of that S___, or the associated costs of R&D, heat mitigation development and irrelevant sensor and processing refinements on a still based camera.
> 
> The advent of video in DSLR's grew out of the Live View feature, so 'cost' added to the stills camera was marginal and of benefit to the core users. Now unless you do video 2/3rds of model upgrades are entirely useless. I don't give a darn about codecs, video frame rates, headphone sockets, AF in video, dual pixel blah blah blah. Give me stills orientated stills cameras.



I hear a lot of macro people saying they love the dual pixel, mind you. I'd love to have it just for those times I use live view either because I'm shooting in a tight spot where my head won't physically fit behind the viewfinder, or when I'm being a wuss and don't feel like lying on my belly in a 0° icy river at -30°. At those times a faster live view autofocus could be cool.  Oh, and a flippy screen, since I'm already being controversial here.


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## iowapipe (Jul 16, 2016)

Chaitanya said:


> kphoto99 said:
> 
> 
> > Just 2.4, no 5Ghz band for WiFi, so no AC support.
> ...



from the wiki you linked: " 802.11ac only specifies operation in the 5 GHz band. Operation in the 2.4 GHz band is specified by 802.11n."

802.11ax may include it in the spec when finalized. (2019?)


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## deleteme (Jul 17, 2016)

Jopa said:


> JonAustin said:
> 
> 
> > RobPan said:
> ...



Thought I would sell a cataract...I mean a Cadillac.


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## JP (Jul 18, 2016)

Gosh... I'd like to see a 1/250ths top sync speed... and continuing to see a PC socket... in addition to having a shutter release lag time worthy of a camera that costs upwards of 3,500.00 Plus the red AF dot that matches the performance of the red AF dot in the 5D Mark II 

4K is ok... but over-kill and it takes up so much memory on my hard drives.. it isn't worth shooting in... that and editing 4K...... man... I'll need a 10K computer upgrade.. because my new iMac just isn't cutting it for the drone footage I shoot in 4K.. Besides... none of my clients want 4K.. or even need it.. they are running videos on Vimeo.. or YouTube.. and their customers are watching them on their smart phones or iPads.. 4K is just a nice spec to me.. and not a useful tool.. I'd be very happy with a full stop of cleaner high iso... and a low iso setting of 25, with decent contrast.. Oh... and one feature that I would love to see... is a flip-screen... a FF body with a flip screen... oh.....the possibilities... 

I doubt I'll ever see the day when all of this stuff will be on a camera platform that doesn't have to have a vertical grip built into the body.. Until then, I'll keep plugging away with my still very capable 5D 3 bodies..


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## Khufu (Jul 18, 2016)

Not read all the thread: tired, being lazy... but here's a thing that came up when I Googled that internal product number and had Google translate for me. Apparently it's the same WiFi jazz as the 80D, and this has been floating around the foreign internets for over a month...
(I've never attached things on this forum before. I don't know if this is going to work, fail or break the internets but I'm going to hit 'post' and pass out. Let's see what happens!)


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## AvTvM (Jul 18, 2016)

thanks khufu, your posting worked just fine.

the bottom entry in the table gets my interest: PC2258 with wireless module WM500 ... could this be my next Canon body? "EOS M4 Pro" mirrorless body ... custom-built to my specs (small body, big sensor, fast AF, great EVF, bad-ass battery)?

ps: i don't care at all for 5D4. my 5D3 is the last mirrorslapper i ever bought. along with assorted EF/L glass it is sitting in the dark closet 99% of the time and only got 6800 shutter clicks or so. meanwhile my tiny, featherlight EOS M (1) system has accompanief me on cointless trips and excursions and got 35.000+ clicks ... and counting. i will not bother with fat heavy mirrorslappers in the future. make it small, light and mirrorfree for me!


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## serenaur (Jul 18, 2016)

JP said:


> 4K is ok... but over-kill and it takes up so much memory on my hard drives.. it isn't worth shooting in... that and editing 4K...... man... I'll need a 10K computer upgrade.. because my new iMac just isn't cutting it for the drone footage I shoot in 4K.. Besides... none of my clients want 4K.. or even need it.. they are running videos on Vimeo.. or YouTube.. and their customers are watching them on their smart phones or iPads.. 4K is just a nice spec to me.. and not a useful tool..



4K is a very useful tool, even if delivering in 1080p. I basically shoot everything in 4K at work as it allows me to crop in to a scene and have "two shots in one", automate pans with the extra resolution, downscale 4K to 1080p for a cleaner image etc etc. The PC I'm editing on is nothing to write home about either, probably around €1k, and it's fine. Granted it's a bit slow when the effects are piled on in Premiere but rendering previews helps a lot.

I agree that the other stuff you mentioned would be good though. A flippy screen would be amazing and who doesn't want better low light capabilities! I'm on a 5D2 for my personal camera (shooting with an A7S2 at work) and I'm seriously considering the 5D4 depending on it's specs as it could be the perfect all-in-one camera solution for me.


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## Khufu (Jul 18, 2016)

AvTvM, I'm having fun poking around the internet now with these product codes! I had no idea of v the significance of the letters on my cameras; my 5D3 says "Canon DS126321" on the bottom whilst my M2 tells me it is a "DS126471" and also says "Contains FCC ID: AZD221", which is the wireless module!

The " WM500" is also known by FCC ID "AZD500", akin to the M2's AZD221, however, nosing through online info for both I see that the 221 was, I think, made in Japan, whereas the 500 clearly has " Made in China" plastered across it. Would/can Canon mix & match? Would this necessitate a move to "Assembled in..." branding like others rather than "Made in Japan", or could Canon be producing more EOS products outside of Japan?! (I actually don't know details of M3/M10 production, maybe they have already moved some?) Is badging something as "Contains XX" enough to claim Japanese production when containing Chinese parts? 

I'm enjoying being a bit of a detective here, ha! This is definitely top secret though, the sites I'm finding have documentation listed as restricted until November, I think... might just be a new WiFi Ixus or Powershot that's hitting the market in time for Christmas  BUT it's 100% a Digital Camera Only module, one of the cover letters stated so.

I'll probably keep digging for a bit, this is fun, and I'll probably answer lots of my own questions... I'll chime in again when I next get confused or find something curious


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## slclick (Jul 18, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> thanks khufu, your posting worked just fine.
> 
> the bottom entry in the table gets my interest: PC2258 with wireless module WM500 ... could this be my next Canon body? "EOS M4 Pro" mirrorless body ... custom-built to my specs (small body, big sensor, fast AF, great EVF, bad-ass battery)?
> 
> ps: i don't care at all for 5D4. my 5D3 is the last mirrorslapper i ever bought. along with assorted EF/L glass it is sitting in the dark closet 99% of the time and only got 6800 shutter clicks or so. meanwhile my tiny, featherlight EOS M (1) system has accompanief me on cointless trips and excursions and got 35.000+ clicks ... and counting. i will not bother with fat heavy mirrorslappers in the future. make it small, light and mirrorfree for me!



Yeah we know, you made your point in your last 800 posts. I truly hope someone makes the camera for you someday, soon.


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## zim (Jul 18, 2016)

slclick said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > thanks khufu, your posting worked just fine.
> ...



that's the point though it's just never ever ever going to happen no one will ever make *that* camera which is why this whole "mirror slapper" put down stuff is so infantile.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 18, 2016)

zim said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



Yes, quite the apt description.


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## AvTvM (Jul 18, 2016)

luckily i do not care in the least about Canon fanboi opinions. You can call me anything you want (I will report all inadequate labels though). 

Whether you like to hear it or not, infantile or not: all I want stupid Canon to do is to build a non-stupid mirrorless camera ... for me and the millions of others who will buy it. 

The rest of you can happily continue to buy every new iteration of marginally "improved" - or rather "highly innovative" Canon mirrorslappers. Suit yourself.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 19, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> luckily i do not care in the least about Canon fanboi opinions...
> 
> Whether you like to hear it or not, infantile or not: all I want stupid Canon to do is to build a non-stupid mirrorless camera ... for me and the millions of others who will buy it.



Only slightly more than 3 million MILCs were made last year – by all brands combined – and so far it looks like even fewer will be made in 2016. So you're suggesting that if Canon makes a 'non-stupid' MILC then more people will buy that one model than buy any other brand of MILC?!? I guess you don't care in the least about your own opinion, because you're sure sounding like the ultimate Canon fanboi!!

Funny how Canon doesn't know about those millions of people who'd buy such a camera. Or maybe...just maybe...they're not stupid ones, except in this fantasy scenario you've concocted in your head.


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## AvTvM (Jul 19, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Only slightly more than 3 million MILCs were made last year – by all brands combined – and so far it looks like even fewer will be made in 2016. So you're suggesting that if Canon makes a 'non-stupid' MILC then more people will buy that one model than buy any other brand of MILC?!?



yes i do. 

IF Canon were to produce a fully worthy competitor to Sony A7 II and A7R II ... priced like the Sonys ... plus smart range of native lenses priced lower than Sony lenses (like they currently do) ... and IF it happened BEFORE Nikon does an FF MILC system ... YES, Canon would sell millions of those MILC bodies.

Even a kick-ass EOS M4 (APS-C) fully competitive with Sony A6300 and priced like a Rebel would sell in the millions. Not many more Rebels though ...


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## unfocused (Jul 19, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Only slightly more than 3 million MILCs were made last year – by all brands combined – and so far it looks like even fewer will be made in 2016. So you're suggesting that if Canon makes a 'non-stupid' MILC then more people will buy that one model than buy any other brand of MILC?!?
> ...



There is a very simple way to get what you want. Place $1,000 in an escrow account as a deposit on your dream mirrorless camera. Since there are "millions" of others who want exactly what you want, get at least 500,000 of them to also put $1,000 in the escrow account. When you hit 500,000 participants, notify Canon and send them the money you've collected. Faced with that cash and a guaranteed sale of 500,000 I'm quite certain they will gladly develop your dream camera.


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## Orangutan (Jul 19, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> Not many more Rebels though ...



This is a testable hypothesis: you're asserting that the next expected iteration of Rebel will not sell well. We'll see how you react if the next Rebel sells as well as the previous models.


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## AvTvM (Jul 19, 2016)

Orangutan said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > Not many more Rebels though ...
> ...



wrong. you did not read/understand what i wrote ... that not many Rebels would be sold (any longer) ... IF and as soon as Canon launches a kick-ass, Rebel-priced EOS M4 (mirrorless, APS-C).


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## Orangutan (Jul 19, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



I stand corrected.


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## slclick (Jul 19, 2016)

and we continue to bother


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 19, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Only slightly more than 3 million MILCs were made last year – by all brands combined – and so far it looks like even fewer will be made in 2016. So you're suggesting that if Canon makes a 'non-stupid' MILC then more people will buy that one model than buy any other brand of MILC?!?
> ...



A Canon *full frame* MILC camera would sell millions of units?!? There have been some colossally stupid assertions made on this forum, that one definitely ranks among the most egregiously asinine. If you honestly believe that, I feel sorry for you.


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## AvTvM (Jul 19, 2016)

certainly canon has sold millions of 5D, 5D2, 6D, 5D3 mirrorslappers with FF sensor ... not necessarily in one year, but over a number of years. that is exactly what i expect for canon FF mirrorless canera. actually i would and do expect millions of units for the first generation of canon ff milc bodies (eg. 5X and 5Xs akin to A7 & A7R ). sony has likely sold way more than 100.000 units of A7/S/R ... i do expect canon to sell at 10x sony volumes. just consider the nimber of mirroslappers that many people like myself are eager to replace with smaller, lighter and more fun functional tools. 

so yes: millions of units with FF sensor. many more millions with smaller sensor (APS-C) at lower prices ... mirrorless "mRebel/mKiss".


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## arthurbikemad (Jul 19, 2016)

Personally I have no wish for mirrorless, poor battery life, hate EVF's with a passion and so on.

I am a SLAPPER LOVER!


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 19, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> certainly canon has sold millions of 5D, 5D2, 6D, 5D3 mirrorslappers with FF sensor ... not necessarily in one year, but over a number of years. that is exactly what i expect for canon FF mirrorless canera. *actually i would and do expect millions of units for the first generation of canon ff milc bodies *(eg. 5X and 5Xs akin to A7 & A7R ). sony has likely sold way more than 100.000 units of A7/S/R ... i do expect canon to sell at 10x sony volumes. just consider the nimber of mirroslappers that many people like myself are eager to replace with smaller, lighter and more fun functional tools.
> 
> so yes: millions of units with FF sensor. many more millions with smaller sensor (APS-C) at lower prices ... mirrorless "mRebel/mKiss".



Well, the highlighted statement above is just ludicrous, but regardless, your previous statement (and others like it) about 'you and millions of others' who would buy a Canon FF mirrorless implies a pent-up demand that simply doesn't exist. Moving the goalposts doesn't help your case – the way the market stands, no matter how many FF MILCs you think Canon would sell, they'd sell _more_ FF dSLRs...which is why there isn't a Canon FF MILC...yet. 

Yes, Canon _might_ sell millions of FF MILCs...over time..._eventually_. But that will only happen after MILCs are dominant in the ILC market. The way the market has been trending since the introduction of modern MILCs (dSLR sales dropping relatively slowly, MILC sales not increasing), that's _many_ years away, unless a paradigm shift occurs in the market to change the status quo. You might try and argue that Canon launching a FF MILC could be that paradigm shift, but only because you seem unable to grasp that changing the status quo is not in Canon's interest, since they have been and remain the leader of the ILC market.


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## Orangutan (Jul 19, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> certainly canon has sold millions of 5D, 5D2, 6D, 5D3 mirrorslappers with FF sensor ... not necessarily in one year, but over a number of years. that is exactly what i expect for canon FF mirrorless canera. actually i would and do expect millions of units for the first generation of canon ff milc bodies (eg. 5X and 5Xs akin to A7 & A7R ). sony has likely sold way more than 100.000 units of A7/S/R ... i do expect canon to sell at 10x sony volumes. just consider the nimber of mirroslappers that many people like myself are eager to replace with smaller, lighter and more fun functional tools.
> 
> so yes: millions of units with FF sensor. many more millions with smaller sensor (APS-C) at lower prices ... mirrorless "mRebel/mKiss".



If I understand correctly, you're asserting that you believe the following: at the same time Canon releases the 5D4, if they also release a mirrorless camera that is functionally nearly-identical to it (sensor, AF, features, EVF, battery life) , but a smaller, full-frame mirrorless, then the mirrorless sales would equal or exceed the "mirrorslapper" 5D4 sales.


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## AvTvM (Jul 19, 2016)

Orangutan said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > certainly canon has sold millions of 5D, 5D2, 6D, 5D3 mirrorslappers with FF sensor ... not necessarily in one year, but over a number of years. that is exactly what i expect for canon FF mirrorless canera. actually i would and do expect millions of units for the first generation of canon ff milc bodies (eg. 5X and 5Xs akin to A7 & A7R ). sony has likely sold way more than 100.000 units of A7/S/R ... i do expect canon to sell at 10x sony volumes. just consider the nimber of mirroslappers that many people like myself are eager to replace with smaller, lighter and more fun functional tools.
> ...



Yes, exactly! 

Imagine 5D IV functionality in a mirrorless cam the size of Sony A7R II. Good Well-shaped handgrip, just large enough to hold standard Canon battery size (LP-E6, ideally a version with improved capacity, say 15+ Whrs). Global electronic shutter. No mech compeonents in camera body. Zero vibration. Zero noise. 1/8000s X-sync. DP-AF module that finally delivers the goods: class leading AF system, including tracking moving objetcs. And best in class "Retina" EVF. USD/€ 3500. What's not to like?

Plus a wisely chosen initial range of new *COMPACT* lenses with new native mirrorless mount ("EF-X"), of course fully compatible with EF glass via simple EF-adapter, available at very reasonable cost ... just like EF/EF-M adapter (=less than 100 €/USD). Or make it an "instant rebate" item ... 

Business opportunity for Canon is huge ... to sell not only MILC bodies but *millions* of new lenses in "consumer/regular/L" varieties.

... my opinion only, of course


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 19, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> ... my opinion only, of course



If it was your opinion that the Earth is flat or the moon is made of green cheese...those would be more credible. :


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## AvTvM (Jul 19, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > ... my opinion only, of course
> ...



I have to disappoint you. Where I live, earth is neither round nor flat, but mountaineous.  ;D


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 19, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



Ahhh, but earth ≠ the Earth. Those mountains comprising your personal viewpoint are tiny in comparison to the totality of Earth...much like those who would buy a FF MILC are only a very tiny part of the totality of the ILC market. Once again, your personal perspective is irrelevant and not at all representative when considering the global state of affairs.   8)


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## AvTvM (Jul 19, 2016)

dilbert said:


> the problem is that "a good well-shaped handgrip" and putting an LP-E6 battery in an A7RII would likely make it at least Rebel sized. asking for a 15+Whrs battery (and leaving Sony to work out how to fit it into a small body) is enough



A7R II IS rebel sized ... but with FF sensor. Handgrip is deeper than on Rebels.


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## slclick (Jul 19, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



These mountains? https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/


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## AvTvM (Jul 20, 2016)

slclick said:


> These mountains? https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/



Interesting! Not from me though. See this Flickr account for the first time.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 20, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > These mountains? https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/
> ...



Interesting, indeed! I really enjoy my visits to Switzerland. In that photoset, I did notice how plain the Kapellbrüke looks without the flower boxes. 

AvTvM's alter ego, taken in April, 2013:






Me, taken in June, 2015 (from a couple of meters closer to the bridge along the bank of the Reuss):


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## Orangutan (Jul 20, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



That's the problem: we have to imagine it, because the tech is not yet mature. Battery life, AF and EVF still need a fair bit of work to equal what's in the 5D3. Sure, if there a choice between a mirrorless 5D4m and a reflex 5D4 (at around the same price), both having identical performance in AF, battery and EVF, I'd probably prefer the mirrorless. It just doesn't exist, and it won't until Canon and Nikon think they can make it as rock-solid as their SLR lines because they don't want to deal with recalls, tech support calls, returns, etc.


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## Khufu (Jul 20, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> thanks khufu, your posting worked just fine.
> 
> the bottom entry in the table gets my interest: PC2258 with wireless module WM500 ... could this be my next Canon body? "EOS M4 Pro" mirrorless body ... custom-built to my specs (small body, big sensor, fast AF, great EVF, bad-ass battery)?
> 
> ps: i don't care at all for 5D4. my 5D3 is the last mirrorslapper i ever bought. along with assorted EF/L glass it is sitting in the dark closet 99% of the time and only got 6800 shutter clicks or so. meanwhile my tiny, featherlight EOS M (1) system has accompanief me on cointless trips and excursions and got 35.000+ clicks ... and counting. i will not bother with fat heavy mirrorslappers in the future. make it small, light and mirrorfree for me!




Regarding the PC2258:

It's an "IXUS" (ELAN?)/Powershot of sorts... I think; with a flippy-floppy screen!

Documents for both the AZD237 and AZD500 (aka WM500) Wireless modules state they were installed and tested in the PC2258. One document describes the camera in testing conditions as having the screen open and closed. One document refers to battery powering only whilst the other references the ca-dc10 (powershot/IXUS power supply). I guess there's a chance they could use it in labs to test an EOS M...

Took me ages to find the product code and WiFi module code for the EOS M3, had to download the manual! I see it's now a PCXXXXXX, and not a DSXXXXXX product like the M and M2. Looks a little like the M platform's being dismissed from EOS land, woudn't surprise me if the line lost the 'EOS' designation since losing it's firmware and DS product codes... 

There's also some mystery WiFi grip (potentially) coming (I don't know what for, it's similar to the 7D WiFi grip) that is carrying a DS5XXXXX model number. I think that uses the AZD238 or something, if anyone's curious and googling? I'm not sure, I've been poking around lots on that fccid site again but it's time to stop!


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## Khufu (Jul 20, 2016)

Size of platform: 150.7 mm (width)  116.4 mm (height)  75.9 mm (depth)

The 5D4 prototype appears to have lost 2mm in width from the 5D3 (!!!) and hasn't gotten any taller, give or take fractions of a millimetre, despite expectations of a wee 7D/1DX stylee bump... Goodness, I'm blowing some minds here, right?!


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## AvTvM (Jul 20, 2016)

thanks Khufu! interesting findings and speculation!

Downgrading EOS M product line from "EOS" to "Powershot/Ixus/Elph" is one of many "business decisions" and "marketing differentiaton measures" that prompt me to exclaim: STUPID Canon!

@Neuro: indeed, Kapellbrücke with flowers does look better. unfortunately the swiss have not yet created genetically modified geraniums that can withstand Swiss winters outside ...


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 20, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> @Neuro: indeed, Kapellbrücke with flowers does look better. unfortunately the swiss have not yet created genetically modified geraniums that can withstand Swiss winters outside ...



True...but that was April – spring, not winter. I haven't been to Luzern in April, but in Zürich at that time of year there are flowerpots on the streets, and the Universität Basel botanical gardens are blooming! 

Regardless, Syngenta should get going on those GMO geraniums right away!


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## AvTvM (Jul 20, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > @Neuro: indeed, Kapellbrücke with flowers does look better. unfortunately the swiss have not yet created genetically modified geraniums that can withstand Swiss winters outside ...
> ...



until then and/or until further progression of gloabl warming into Switzerland will Lucerne's city gardeners start putting flowers onto the bridge in early May. 
lots of additional Info to be found here: http://www.stadtluzern.ch/dl.php/de/4b069dc2dfab4/kapellbruecke_blumen_010507.pdf
can't find a more recent document on the quick.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 20, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



Thanks much for the info!

Here are some Basel blooms in a shot my older daughter took near Petersplatz in mid-April, with her PowerShot S100.


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## mnclayshooter (Jul 20, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > slclick said:
> ...



I was there over the Easter holiday week in about 1998. The town/city of Lucerne is vastly different in general appearance, mood, noise, ambience other times of the year than during that period of quiet. We as a group of tourists were cautioned by the police to respect the quiet, when literally 100 feet or less away, a party blaring disco music from a 2nd or 3rd story window could easily be heard.


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