# Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Spec List [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jul 11, 2016)

```
The first spec list in a while from an unknown source has appeared for next months Canon EOS 5D Mark IV announcement. Most of it is probably a safe bet, though we don’t yet have confirmation on the resolution of the camera.</p>
<p><strong>Rumoured EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li class="p1"><span class="s1">28mp</span></li>
<li class="p1">DIGIC 7</li>
<li class="p1"><span class="s1">ISO 100-51200 (204,800)</span></li>
<li class="p1"><span class="s1">9fps</span></li>
<li class="p1">4K video</li>
<li class="p1"><span class="s1">Headphone jack</span></li>
<li class="p1"><span class="s1">Price: $3600</span></li>
<li class="p1"><span class="s1">Touchscreen</span></li>
<li class="p1"><span class="s1">CFast 2.0 & SD card slots</span></li>
<li class="p1"><span class="s1">Built-in WiFi & GPS</span></li>
<li class="p1"><span class="s1">61 autofocus points (41 cross type)</span></li>
<li class="p1"><span class="s1">Reduced weight</span></li>
<li class="p1"><span class="s1">New EF 24-105 f/4L IS II kit lens</span></li>
</ul>
<p>We hope to confirm the resolution and other pertinent specifications soon.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## jebrady03 (Jul 11, 2016)

You know how I now you're (partial 40 year old virgin reference) not someone who knows what they're talking about rumor sender? 9 FPS. 
Ain't happening. Not a chance.


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## GMCPhotographics (Jul 11, 2016)

Does it have interchangeable screens?


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Jul 11, 2016)

jebrady03 said:


> You know how I now you're (partial 40 year old virgin reference) not someone who knows what they're talking about rumor sender? 9 FPS.
> Ain't happening. Not a chance.



It could be a mirror-up feature....


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## Hector1970 (Jul 11, 2016)

I don't think myself it will be 9FPS, They'll probably put it at 8 FPS.
I wonder will they fix focus confirmation.
On the Mark III I find the lack of a red indicator confirming focusing a real shortfall on an almost perfect camera.
For the IV they have incrementally improved everything.
It's probably all the can do.
I'd like more dynamic range in the sensor if they can.
The one other thing I would like is flip out back screen, ideally one that can fold back in so the back is facing outward. It's incredibly useful. It's very hard to see the screen in bright sunlight. I live in a country that doesn't seem much sun so it's not an obtacle but recently I was in Italy with two weeks of bright sun and you couldn't see the screen.
It's one major advantage I've found with mirrorless (Fuji anyway) that you can view the picture through the viewfinder after you've taken it. 
Is that impossible with a mirror in the camera?


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Jul 11, 2016)

Hector1970 said:


> I don't think myself it will be 9FPS, They'll probably put it at 8 FPS.
> I wonder will they fix focus confirmation.
> On the Mark III I find the lack of a red indicator confirming focusing a real shortfall on an almost perfect camera.
> For the IV they have incrementally improved everything.
> ...



I have been told that we'll see the return of the red focus point.


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## davidj (Jul 11, 2016)

Canon Rumors said:


> 28mp



Great, now when it comes out at 24MP, high MP lovers are going to be complaining that it's even lower than what was rumoured.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Jul 11, 2016)

davidj said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > 28mp
> ...



I'm surprised I can't nail down this information with any sort of certainty yet.


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## mikekx102 (Jul 11, 2016)

Well I hope it has 9 FPS, I'll be very very happy if that's true. Lots of people here seem to be of the attitude that if you want more than 7 FPS, go get a 1DX, but I think its quite a valid wish to ask for 9 FPS in a 5D mark IV, and for me it would make it an even more versatile camera.

It astounds me when people come along and say they hope its lacking in this regard, or that regard (because they don't currently utillise those features)... And I'm not talking about anyone in this thread but just in general. Make it rain Canon!


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## NorbR (Jul 11, 2016)

jebrady03 said:


> You know how I now you're (partial 40 year old virgin reference) not someone who knows what they're talking about rumor sender? 9 FPS.
> Ain't happening. Not a chance.



May I ask why not? 

If I had to bet, I would probably bet on something a bit lower as well, but I don't see why 9 fps would be so shocking. 

Mechanically, if they can make a full-frame size mirror flip at 14fps in the 1DX, they can easily make it 9 in the 5D series. 
Specs wise, it's far enough from the 14fps that there is no real threat to the product line differentiation. 
It's close to the 10fps in the 7D, but Canon would be happy to sell anyone a 5D instead of a 7D, so no problem there. 
Don't know the precise specs of Digic 7, but I don't imagine there would be a major data throughput problem with 28MP @9fps (28*9 is roughly equal to 50*5, so if the 5Ds can ...)

It may be a wish rather than a prediction, but it's not a completely inaccessible wish - or am I missing something?


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## Morku (Jul 11, 2016)

I really would love to know, if 4K @ 30 or 60 fps.


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## UnholyRacket (Jul 11, 2016)

This would be almost perfect specs for me, although I share the general disbelief on the 9fps. I would actually be ok if they came in with a little less if the trade-off delivered a quieter silent mode. I love the 1DX Mk II's frame rate, but it sounds like a gattling gun (even in silent shooting, which should actually be labelled 'quieter than a tank running over a recycling truck full of tin cans, but only just'). I am sure wedding, music/arts, and even sports photographers (yes I could hear the 1DX Mk II users at Wimbledon over the radio!) would appreciate that option. Although sports togs will probably stay with the 1DX's.


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## tomscott (Jul 11, 2016)

Why 9fps and 41 cross type? No info about F8 focusing either


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## AlanF (Jul 11, 2016)

I hope it doesn't have the low-pass filter or there is a choice of two models.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Jul 11, 2016)

AlanF said:


> I hope it doesn't have the low-pass filter or there is a choice of two models.



There definitely won't be a split of models and I do expect we'll see a low pass filter.


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## kaihp (Jul 11, 2016)

Canon Rumors said:


> 28mp
> DIGIC 7
> 9fps



Hmmm. The 1D Mk II(N) and the 5D "classic" used the same DIGIC II. The 1D3 used a DIGIC III, while the 5D2 used a DIGIC 4, but there were a good 18 months between those two bodies. The 1DX and 5D3 has 4 months between them, and used the same DIGIC 5+ processors.
Now we're expecting 6-7 months between the 1DX2 and 5D4 announcements, and yet they'll use different DIGIC's according to this source.

28MP * 9fps = 252MP/s, which is significantly higher than the ~171MP/s extrapolated from the 1DX:5D3 ratio. Sounds unlikely to me, although it could explain the switch to a newer DIGIC.


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## davidmurray (Jul 11, 2016)

Canon Rumors said:


> The first spec list in a while from an unknown source has appeared for next months Canon EOS 5D Mark IV announcement. Most of it is probably a safe bet, though we don’t yet have confirmation on the resolution of the camera.</p>
> <p><strong>Rumoured EOS 5D Mark IV Specifications:</strong></p>
> <ul>
> <li class="p1"><span class="s1">28mp</span></li>
> ...



Touchscreen? How will they cope with noses hitting the touchscreen?


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## davidmurray (Jul 11, 2016)

Canon Rumors said:


> davidj said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...



They've probably used previous false rumours to figure out who was doing the leaking.


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## arthurbikemad (Jul 11, 2016)

I'm keen to know the spec, I have funds for a 1DX2 but am interested to know the spec of the 5D4 before I jump on it, then I can decide what to trim down my kit too, sell my 5D3 and 1DX and get the 1DX2 or get the 5D4 and keep the Mk1... I'd like to have just one body, Mk4 or 1DX2.... gone round and round on it for months...

Or buy a 1DX2 and get a 5DSR later on


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## Bernard (Jul 11, 2016)

GMCPhotographics said:


> Does it have interchangeable screens?



I hope so too. The Mark3 and DS use non-interchangeable screens that are as soft as butter. It's impossible to judge critical focus. 

I know about live view, but then why use a DSLR at all? Canon can do a lot better, the question is: will they spend the money it takes to give this camera the best FF DSLR finder on the market, or will they go cheap and hope it doesn't hurt them too bad in the long term?


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## Chaitanya (Jul 11, 2016)

As long as it doesn't cost more than 3200$, it looks like a good camera upgrade over 5D mark III. I would like to see the SD slot upgraded to UHS-II spec just to keep it up to speed with 4k video.


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## bjornjd (Jul 11, 2016)

davidmurray said:


> Touchscreen? How will they cope with noses hitting the touchscreen?



When you look through the viewfinder you probably have the screen turned off 
My old old Canon Digital Rebel had a sensor that told the camera if you were looking through the viewfinder.


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## IglooEater (Jul 11, 2016)

davidmurray said:


> Touchscreen? How will they cope with noses hitting the touchscreen?



Easy- proximity sensor in or around the viewfinder. The touchscreen would be deactivated when ones eye is at the VF


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## pierlux (Jul 11, 2016)

NorbR said:


> jebrady03 said:
> 
> 
> > You know how I now you're (partial 40 year old virgin reference) not someone who knows what they're talking about rumor sender? 9 FPS.
> ...



You're probably missing one Digic chip. 1D and 7D series, as well as 5Ds/r are dual Digic, whereas 5D, 5DMk2 and 5DMk3 are single Digic so, most probably, the 5DMk4 will be single Digic, too. In addition, there might be reasons other than processing power for limiting the burst speed to approx 7 fps.

The previous rumor indicating 24MP and 7-8 fps appears more realistic.


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## Ian_of_glos (Jul 11, 2016)

So does that mean CF cards are confined to history or will it be offered as an option, like on the Nikon D5?


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## Jemlnlx (Jul 11, 2016)

dilbert said:


> Only 1 problem: the price.



Especially after seeing the 1Dx II price drop to $5999, down from the $6799 original.

Was thinking more $3000-3300ish?! I guess we will have to wait and see in the next month or so.


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## wockawocka (Jul 11, 2016)

In an ideal world I'd love to say, post announcement, that Canon have created a camera that should last another 4 year cycle easily and that the buffer, write speed, FPS and resolution are enough.

But it's a big ask. I can believe 9fps because of the D500, I can believe 28mp as it's the momma bears porridge of the current resolutions, I can believe red AF points and the same AF setup as the 1DX.

I really, really hope that they do not screw us dual card writers with standard UHS-1 SD though.


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## bsbeamer (Jul 11, 2016)

Morku said:


> I really would love to know, if 4K @ 30 or 60 fps.



4K or UHD @ 60fps would make a LOT of people forget about those Metabones adapters on Sony camera bodies...


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## bsbeamer (Jul 11, 2016)

bjornjd said:


> davidmurray said:
> 
> 
> > Touchscreen? How will they cope with noses hitting the touchscreen?
> ...





IglooEater said:


> davidmurray said:
> 
> 
> > Touchscreen? How will they cope with noses hitting the touchscreen?
> ...



Canon has been putting out touchscreen DSLRs for many years now and possibly one of the most responsive and easy to use. This will function just like all of the others with a sensor near the eye viewfinder that will turn off/deactivate the touchscreen. There is also a way to do this same thing with ambient light sensors inside the viewfinder, but those are not nearly as accurate in dark conditions.


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## KarstenReis (Jul 11, 2016)

Canon Rumors said:


> 61 autofocus points (41 cross type)



Hoping for all autofocus points at f/8 like the 1DX2.


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## kaihp (Jul 11, 2016)

dilbert said:


> kaihp said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Actually, it's DIGIC 6+ to DIGIC7. Add to that, that Canon already have a "DIGIC 7" out there in the PowerShot G7 X Mark II  

So yeah, all bets are off. Including that the rumor is actually correct or not 



KarstenReis said:


> Hoping for all autofocus points at f/8 like the 1DX2.


Yeah, me too. With the 16/41pt AF module spec, it seems that Canon is doing the same as in 1DX/5D3: putting the same AF module (but not processor) in there, so an all-f/8 would be likely.


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## jebrady03 (Jul 11, 2016)

It blows my mind that there's so much misinformation/misunderstanding out there about Canon's touchscreen implementation. Here's a post I wrote back in November of last year, which honestly was about 2 years after the last time any such post should ever have been written on the subject...



jebrady03 said:


> I'm sure this has been beaten to death by this point... But I have a stick handy and some time to kill...
> 
> This is what the screen of the 70D looks like when you're shooting with it (on the left) vs the screen on the 6D when you're shooting with it (on the right)
> 
> ...


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## FramerMCB (Jul 11, 2016)

tomscott said:


> Why 9fps and 41 cross type? No info about F8 focusing either



Take a look at the spec sheet for the 80D, in particular, it's autofocusing "moxie". You can better believe, the 5D Mk IV will outpace it in the autofocusing department, perhaps not by leaps and bounds, but certainly better. Also, read about the sensor performance in the 80D...real world reviews like those by Dustin Abbott (Dustinabbott.net) and Brian Carnathan ("TDP": the-digital-picture.com). These guys have great things to say about the 80D. Rest assured, the new 5D Mk IV will knock our socks off. Very similar to the upgrade between the 5D Mk II vs. Mk III. (And not the smaller improvements seen between the Mk I vs. Mk II.)


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## j-nord (Jul 11, 2016)

28mpix @ 9 fps  

That would definitely get my attention but I don't believe either number. 28mpix maybe, 9 fps (without mirror lock up) I seriously doubt.


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## jebrady03 (Jul 11, 2016)

dilbert said:


> jebrady03 said:
> 
> 
> > It blows my mind that there's so much misinformation/misunderstanding out there about Canon's touchscreen implementation. Here's a post I wrote back in November of last year, which honestly was about 2 years after the last time any such post should ever have been written on the subject...
> ...



No. It will never be accessible by using your nose.


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## kevl (Jul 11, 2016)

j-nord said:


> 28mpix @ 9 fps
> 
> That would definitely get my attention but I don't believe either number. 28mpix maybe, 9 fps (without mirror lock up) I seriously doubt.



There is zero chance the 5DIV shoots faster than 7FPS. There is no need for it to. The D500 will need to be answered as it is a brilliant camera, but that is for the 7DIII to do. I own a 5D3 and a 7D2. The 7D2 is an awesome camera. The APS-C sensor doesn't stand up to the 5D's in low light, but if you expose it properly it is excellent. Had to purchase it for a second body for the wedding season when it became clear the 5D4 wouldn't be launched in the Spring. Had intended on selling it when the 5D4 came out. I'lll be keeping it and selling the 5D3. 

24-28MP seems reasonable. I'll be satisfied with 24, but will be ecstatic with 28. I don't want any higher than that.


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## ahsanford (Jul 11, 2016)

kaihp said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > 28mp
> ...



...which is efffectively the same as the 50 MP x 5 fps of the 5DS rigs. Two chips = 100% possible to move that kind of data. 

I think most people's disbelief with 9 fps is more 1DX2 cannibalization threat than a technical matter. The higher the fps gets on the 5D4, the more likely the cheaper 5D4 might steal 1DX2 business. Yes yes yes, there is far more to the 1DX2 than framerate, but some cannibalization will occur if the 5D4 framerate gets above a certain number.

- A


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## ahsanford (Jul 11, 2016)

Chaitanya said:


> As long as it doesn't cost more than 3200$, it looks like a good camera upgrade over 5D mark III. I would like to see the SD slot upgraded to UHS-II spec just to keep it up to speed with 4k video.



The 5D3 was $3499 at launch and retained its asking price far far better over the years than other Canon rigs. I would expect a similar price for the next variant: 4K, on-chip ADC, interchangeable focusing screens (we presume), some variant of the 1DX2 AF system, red servo points, etc. will have many photographers pulling out their credit cards on day one.

- A


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 11, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> I think most people's disbelief with 9 fps is more 1DX2 cannibalization threat than a technical matter. The higher the fps gets on the 5D4, the more likely the cheaper 5D4 might steal 1DX2 business. Yes yes yes, there is far more to the 1DX2 than framerate, but some cannibalization will occur if the 5D4 framerate gets above a certain number.



Canon doesn't care if the 5DIV cannabalizes some 1D X II sales, per se. They care about overall revenue and profit. If their marketing research determines that a 5DIV at 9 fps vs. 7 fps will allow them to sell it for an extra $100, that will yield far more revenue and profit than what would be lost in 1D X II sales because of that higher frame rate.


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## gsealy (Jul 11, 2016)

bsbeamer said:


> Morku said:
> 
> 
> > I really would love to know, if 4K @ 30 or 60 fps.
> ...



My guess is that it has the same architecture as the 1DxII for internal 4K storage, which uses 8 bit Motion JPG. It minimizes camera processing, but it is not good for post video work. I am hoping that it supports 4K external recording with a better codec, the same that the current 5DIII does.


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## x-vision (Jul 11, 2016)

Canon Rumors said:


> davidj said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...



28mp is a very believable spec. Here is why:

The 4K implementation on the 1DXII uses a cropped area of the sensor for 1:1 pixel mapping for 4K frames.
The crop ratio of this area is ~1.3x - or APS-H standard format.

It is (very) reasonable to assume that the 5DIV will have the same 4K implementation as the 1DXII.
With 28mp, the crop area for 4K will have a ~1.5x crop factor - or the same size as the Super35 standard format.

With more than 28mp, the 4K crop area will have to be smaller than Super35 in size - which videographers will frown upon.
And will less than 28mp (say 24mp), the 4K crop area will have a non-standard size between Super35 and APS-H.

My bet is that Canon will be going for a standard 4K (crop) size - and will thus use a 28mp sensor in the 5DIV.

Going forward, the interesting thing is whether the 6DII will use the same sensor as the 5DIV.
To me, it's good common sense to have the same sensor in both the 6DII and 5DIV.
If that's the case, though, Canon would have to get creative in differentiating the two models, as the 6DII will need to be priced at around $2,200 ($2,500 max).


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## ahsanford (Jul 11, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > I think most people's disbelief with 9 fps is more 1DX2 cannibalization threat than a technical matter. The higher the fps gets on the 5D4, the more likely the cheaper 5D4 might steal 1DX2 business. Yes yes yes, there is far more to the 1DX2 than framerate, but some cannibalization will occur if the 5D4 framerate gets above a certain number.
> ...



Sure, their business case will run scenarios of total profitability vs. a given feature. 

What I'm arguing is that there must be an 'FPS inflection point' where the wheels come off the bus financially on FPS. i.e. At X fps, the 5D4 will steal sufficient numbers of 1DX2 sales that the necessary 5D4 price increase to cover that loss of revenue effectively puts the 5D4 out of reasonable asking price for the 5D brand. No one would buy $4k+ 5D4, would they?

I'd speculate that inflection point is somewhere in the vicinity of 9-10 fps, but that's a total guess.

- A


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## jebrady03 (Jul 11, 2016)

x-vision said:


> 28mp is a very believable spec. Here is why:
> 
> The 4K implementation on the 1DXII uses a cropped area of the sensor for 1:1 pixel mapping for 4K frames.
> The crop ratio of this area is ~1.3x - or APS-H standard format.
> ...



Great points and solid theory! Will be interesting to see what happens!


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## jebrady03 (Jul 11, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



Hey, it's definitely possible. The majority of people who NEED (or have convinced themselves they NEED) 10+ FPS in a FF camera have already purchased or will still purchase a 1DX Mark II. For those whom 7-9 is enough AND haven't already purchased, maybe that's a small enough group that the loss of sale of 1DX Mark II is worth it for the resulting premium in cost for a 9 FPS 5D Mark IV vs a 7 FPS 5D Mark IV.

Maybe.

And actually, I just found out something I didn't know (literally, just now, after typing the word "maybe" above)... I didn't realize the 5D Mark II only shot at 3.9 FPS whereas the 5D Mark III shoots at 6 (slightly over 50% more FPS). So heck, maybe the 5D Mark IV WILL shoot at 9 FPS (50% more than the 5D Mark III). For some reason, I was thinking the 5D Mark II shot at 5 FPS.

So now my shoulders are next to my ears as I shrug "I dunno"...


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 11, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



I do think 9 fps is reasonable, and I think we'll see at least 8 fps in a 5DIV. At the xD level in the lineup (unlike the xxxD level), 'competition' is less about being better than your brand competitors and more about getting current owners to upgrade. In many cases, I expect that upgrade is not 5DIII → 5DIV but rather 7DII → 5DIV. I suspect _that's_ the inflection point that Canon cares most about, what fps would be a solid inducement for 7DII owners to shell out for a 5DIV where they're not giving up much in terms of frame rate, but giving a lot more money to Canon.

I suspect that unit sales of the 5D series so far outstrip the 1D series, and that the markets are different enough, that Canon really doesn't need to worry about a 5DIV 'stealing sufficient numbers of 1DX2 sales'.


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## Deleted member 68328 (Jul 11, 2016)

The specs are fine, but the real question for me is: will there be new sensor and AF tech as rumored in Canon DSLR for a while?


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## tron (Jul 11, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...


I do hope you are correct fpswise. Although I would rather get a 5DIV at 24Mp to approximate 1DxII quality in high iso. We will see...


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## ahsanford (Jul 11, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> I do think 9 fps is reasonable, and I think we'll see at least 8 fps in a 5DIV. At the xD level in the lineup (unlike the xxxD level), 'competition' is less about being better than your brand competitors and more about getting current owners to upgrade. In many cases, I expect that upgrade is not 5DIII → 5DIV but rather 7DII → 5DIV. I suspect _that's_ the inflection point that Canon cares most about, what fps would be a solid inducement for 7DII owners to shell out for a 5DIV where they're not giving up much in terms of frame rate, but giving a lot more money to Canon.
> 
> I suspect that unit sales of the 5D series so far outstrip the 1D series, and that the markets are different enough, that Canon really doesn't need to worry about a 5DIV 'stealing sufficient numbers of 1DX2 sales'.



That's an interesting point on who their target 'upcharge/upgrade' camp might be, Neuro -- a lot of 5D3 users (like myself) are not upgrading this cycle because it will be more of an incremental bump for us. Also, your 7D2 argument is a solid one: my last rig before my 5D3 was T1i, believe it or not.

Also, I echo that the FPS will get a bump -- I've had 8 fps as my guess. After all, it's much easier for Canon to give us +2-3 fps than it is to give us a massive boost in DR. :

- A


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## gsealy (Jul 11, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



I agree the market is different. The guys that use the 1Dx's beat the crap out of them, taking perhaps thousands of pictures in a day and maybe in all kinds of weather. The camera has to handle a huge workload. The photographer will get paid when he delivers, so the camera has to deliver for him. I have seen these guys work and talked to them when they had a few moments, which are very few. They are not buying a 5DIV. Conversely, why spend an extra $2500 or so when the high workload is not there? Or when a super high frame rate is not needed? Or when weather is not big factor?


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## ahsanford (Jul 11, 2016)

gsealy said:


> I agree the market is different. The guys that use the 1Dx's beat the crap out of them, taking perhaps thousands of pictures in a day and maybe in all kinds of weather. The camera has to handle a huge workload. The photographer will get paid when he delivers, so the camera has to deliver for him. I have seen these guys work and talked to them when they had a few moments, which are very few. They are not buying a 5DIV. Conversely, why spend an extra $2500 or so when the high workload is not there? Or when a super high frame rate is not needed? Or when weather is not big factor?



...because the 1D line has a boatload of exclusive features that have nothing to do with FPS, build quality or sealing. 

I hear your point and 100% agree that the two camps have different needs and (correspondingly) different Canon options to select for those needs. 

I'm just saying that the price differential between the 5D line and the 1D line is far more nuanced that folks might believe based on top-line spec sheet metrics like MP, FPS, AF system, etc. This is why a lot of old 1Ds shooters are butt-hurt that Canon doesn't give them a high MP sensor option in a 1D feature-set body.

- A


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## gunship01 (Jul 11, 2016)

28 MP and 9 FPS? If true, I'm in!


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## GMCPhotographics (Jul 11, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> kaihp said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...



I have never thought of a 5 Series to be in the same market. Both are pro cameras and the 5D3 and 1Dx were developed alongside each other. For weddings, I would choose a 5D3/4 over a 1Dx 1/2 any day. It's lighter, cheaper, easier to handle...and it's got that amazing silent shutter mode. In wedding work, anything over 5fps is a bonus but not a game changer. The 5D3 is really well built and a very versatile camera. As a pro, I would always buy a pair of cams. So a pair of 5D3/4 is a LOT cheaper than a pair of 1DX cameras and they will both last about the same. 
I think the real reason the 5D4 is rumoured to have 9fps is because the processor can handle the data throughput...and Canon doesn't want it to rob sales of the 5D3S/R. So 28mp is a lot less than the 50+ of the 5D3S/R and there's easy to see distinction between the two cameras. I don't think the 1Dx competes with the 5D3/4 at all...although due to the versatility of both cameras, there's a lot of over lap with their capabilities. 

I've shot Irish sea birds for many years with a 5DIII, while many of my colleagues used 1DX units...sure they took a lot more photos. But I had as many if not more keepers and had less to choose from.


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## vlad (Jul 11, 2016)

Bernard said:


> GMCPhotographics said:
> 
> 
> > Does it have interchangeable screens?
> ...



I've had a 3rd party focusing screen (fucusingscreen.com) on my 5D3 since it first came out. Works great, no AF or metering issues.


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## ahsanford (Jul 11, 2016)

GMCPhotographics said:


> I have never thought of a 5 Series to be in the same market. Both are pro cameras and the 5D3 and 1Dx were developed alongside each other. For weddings, I would choose a 5D3/4 over a 1Dx 1/2 any day. It's lighter, cheaper, easier to handle...and it's got that amazing silent shutter mode. In wedding work, anything over 5fps is a bonus but not a game changer. The 5D3 is really well built and a very versatile camera. As a pro, I would always buy a pair of cams. So a pair of 5D3/4 is a LOT cheaper than a pair of 1DX cameras and they will both last about the same.



Good points.

The 1DX2 has silent shutter, anti-flicker, faster flash sync and spot metering at any AF point... any chance we'll start seeing 1DX2 break up the dominance of the 5D3 at weddings?

- A


----------



## kaihp (Jul 11, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > I think most people's disbelief with 9 fps is more 1DX2 cannibalization threat than a technical matter. The higher the fps gets on the 5D4, the more likely the cheaper 5D4 might steal 1DX2 business. Yes yes yes, there is far more to the 1DX2 than framerate, but some cannibalization will occur if the 5D4 framerate gets above a certain number.
> ...



Are you sure of that? - I've seen companies being so focused on hitting certain COGS and margin numbers that they created negative incentives for sales of certain products, because the COGS was "too high" and it would erode the margins overall margins.

In short, they left revenue and profit on the table, because a 36% profit margin on $100 looked better than 34% of $110.

Back on-topic: If the 5D4 continues the 'trend' of having a single DIGIC processor, I would be very surprised if it will do in excess of 250MP/s; if the 5D4 gets two DIGIC's, there's no reason it can't do 9fps.
FWIW, the DIGIC7 of the G7 X Mk II does up to 8fps @ 20.1MP, but I'm doubtful whether it's the same DIGIC as we'll see in a 5D4.


----------



## Chuck Alaimo (Jul 11, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



Just tossing this out there, but, doesn't buffer size play a huge roll in this? If the buffer on the 5d4 is weaker then yes you get that high frame rate but it won't be as usable because your spending tons of time waiting on the buffer to clear.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 11, 2016)

I have always pre-ordered new 5D models, but I may sit this one out. The camera is pretty much what I expected, but the new features do not justify upgrading. New CFast cards, Card Readers, etc.

The one feature that might change my mind is if wi-fi is 802.11AC with gigabit capability. Then a card reader will not be needed.


----------



## Chuck Alaimo (Jul 11, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> GMCPhotographics said:
> 
> 
> > I have never thought of a 5 Series to be in the same market. Both are pro cameras and the 5D3 and 1Dx were developed alongside each other. For weddings, I would choose a 5D3/4 over a 1Dx 1/2 any day. It's lighter, cheaper, easier to handle...and it's got that amazing silent shutter mode. In wedding work, anything over 5fps is a bonus but not a game changer. The 5D3 is really well built and a very versatile camera. As a pro, I would always buy a pair of cams. So a pair of 5D3/4 is a LOT cheaper than a pair of 1DX cameras and they will both last about the same.
> ...



Not at the 1D series price point. Unless your in the luxury category and needling 6k+ at minimum per wedding. I only know one wedding shooter in my area that uses a 1dx, and he has it probably more because he shoots his sons hockey games rather than business needs. 

There really isn't much at a wedding that requires more than 5fps. I personally keep my 5d3 on silent mode, and normal burst, sometimes even single shot mode. I also use lots of off camera light, and there 9s no flash system that can keep up with 14 fps. So, unless you're bride is an Olympic sprinter, and plans to race down the Isle while leaping hurdles and polite vaulting, 14 fps is totally 100% unneeded. 10 fps is unneeded...


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## ahsanford (Jul 11, 2016)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> Just tossing this out there, but, doesn't buffer size play a huge roll in this? If the buffer on the 5d4 is weaker then yes you get that high frame rate but it won't be as usable because your spending tons of time waiting on the buffer to clear.



Mo throughput, mo problems. ;D

What you say is correct, but Nikon's latest D5/D500 rigs -- love them or not -- effectively ended the buffer size debate. Canon could do the same and put colossal buffers on their cameras if they were so inclined.

The question is this: is high framerate and a large buffer a major matter for the 5D brand, or is it just the cherry on top that helps justify (say) a $3499 asking price for an otherwise incrementally improved offering?

For 5D3 people, it's a nice to have but not a must -- after all, we've gotten by with 6 fps and a relative modest buffer for some time now. So offering a 9 FPS rig helps bolster price to those skeptical about how little the rig may have improved elsewhere.

But to Neuro's point, if Canon was trying to sell more superwhites or FF bodies by pulling in current crop users, they might spike the FPS/buffer to pull 7D2 users over the cliff into the FF world. _Those_ folks needs FPS as a high priority.

- A


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## TWI by Dustin Abbott (Jul 11, 2016)

I personally would be pretty delighted by those specs. 28MP is plenty. I'd also be happy even if the FPS comes in at 8FPS. So long as the camera produces as clean or cleaner files as the 6D and perhaps with a touch more dynamic range it sounds like the camera I want.


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## zim (Jul 11, 2016)

TWI by Dustin Abbott said:


> I personally would be pretty delighted by those specs. 28MP is plenty. I'd also be happy even if the FPS comes in at 8FPS. So long as the camera produces as clean or cleaner files as the 6D and perhaps with a touch more dynamic range it sounds like the camera I want.



+100! Perfecto


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## LSXPhotog (Jul 11, 2016)

The 9fps seems like wishful thinking there...but if that's with mirror up and using Dual Pixel in Live View, I'll be OK with it since I'd seldom use 9fps on the camera. However...if it's 9fps with mirror Down using the AF module, my plans to buy a 1DX2 have been lost...so Canon will likely NOT be doing this. (What kind of buffer will we be seeing and will the SD slot be useful instead of trash like the current 5D3's?)


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## Frage (Jul 11, 2016)

That price tag... :'(


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## tpatana (Jul 11, 2016)

Morku said:


> I really would love to know, if 4K @ 30 or 60 fps.



And I wish to know if FHD @120 or 240.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 11, 2016)

LSXPhotog said:


> ...if it's 9fps with mirror Down using the AF module, *my plans* to buy a 1DX2 have been lost...so *Canon will* likely NOT be doing this.



Becuase...you're Canon's CEO? Because...you're their one and only customer? Because...you are representative of the global market for the 1D X II? Or was there some other reason that I missed?


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## AdamBotond (Jul 11, 2016)

zim said:


> TWI by Dustin Abbott said:
> 
> 
> > I personally would be pretty delighted by those specs. 28MP is plenty. I'd also be happy even if the FPS comes in at 8FPS. So long as the camera produces as clean or cleaner files as the 6D and perhaps with a touch more dynamic range it sounds like the camera I want.
> ...


I'm in, as well. I still doubt that those specs, especially 28 mp and 9 fps are going to happen, but if they turn out to be true, its more that I could wish for. It would be the most popular FF Canon rig ever.


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## Larsskv (Jul 11, 2016)

My first thought was also that 9FPS seemed too much. However, I do see some more or less good reasons why Canon would give it 9 FPS. For one, it would separate the 5DIV from the Sony A7 series, and outdo Nikons mid level FF bodies on specs. Canon has been challenged a lot spec wise the last few years. Secondly, Sony will probably release a high FPS full frame soon, the A9? Canon wouldn't want to be outdone by that too soon. Last, it might get people buying 5DIV in stead of used 1DX-cameras, increasing sales of new bodies...


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## tpatana (Jul 11, 2016)

My selfish hopes/wishes:

-Awesome ISO100
-Plenty Mpix
-Great AF during video, and FHD-video at least 120fps, 240 preferred

I don't care:

-still fps


If 5D4 doesn't seem to deliver these, fallback could be 5DsR + G40.


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## shutterfreek (Jul 11, 2016)

120 fps 1080p?


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## Ozarker (Jul 11, 2016)

jebrady03 said:


> You know how I now you're (partial 40 year old virgin reference) not someone who knows what they're talking about rumor sender? 9 FPS.
> Ain't happening. Not a chance.



9 FPS? Why not?


----------



## Ozarker (Jul 11, 2016)

9 FPS would be fantastic!


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## Ozarker (Jul 11, 2016)

NorbR said:


> jebrady03 said:
> 
> 
> > You know how I now you're (partial 40 year old virgin reference) not someone who knows what they're talking about rumor sender? 9 FPS.
> ...



I agree, except for the "happy to sell anyone a 5D instead of a 7D" because that would depend upon sales volume of each and profit margin of each. Higher price doesn't necessarily make the 5D more profitable.

I think sales price, which lenses the buyer has, and whether the buyer prefers crop over FF would make the biggest difference in the decision. There is enough difference in sales price and and arguments both ways for intended use.

9 FPS would be very nice wouldn't it? I'm still betting 10 FPS. If not, then 8 FPS.


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## ahsanford (Jul 11, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> I agree, except for the "happy to sell anyone a 5D instead of a 7D" because that would depend upon sales volume of each and profit margin of each. Higher price doesn't necessarily make the 5D more profitable.



Sure, but also consider that a great number of crop folks migrating to their first FF rig will suddenly need an EF standard zoom and a speedlite, which one would think tilts the margins argument decisively over to the FF side.

- A


----------



## Bernard (Jul 11, 2016)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > any chance we'll start seeing 1DX2 break up the dominance of the 5D3 at weddings?
> ...



One of the wedding shooters I second for uses a 1DX. Great camera, batteries last forever, tough as nails, great in low light, good viewfinder (unlike the 5d series), no problem using them in the rain, or snow, or scorching heat. Never a worry, and they last for years. If I was doing this full-time, I would probably run one too.


----------



## GMCPhotographics (Jul 12, 2016)

Bernard said:


> Chuck Alaimo said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



I have also used a 5DIII in the rain, snow and scorching heat. My 5DIII's have been to Brazil and Madrid in the heat of their sumemrs...Sri Lanka in the monsoon season...I've done Slovenian mountains in the snow...there is no problem with the 5DIII's build quality. It's very close to the 1DX. My 5DIII's are still going strong and i bought them th week thy were launched. The view finder is 100% and just as good as the 1Dx. Low light? Yes the 5DIII is just as good. I think you are running some kind of prejudice against the 5DIII. It was built for uk weddings....go ask Jeff Ascough.


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## Ozarker (Jul 12, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > I agree, except for the "happy to sell anyone a 5D instead of a 7D" because that would depend upon sales volume of each and profit margin of each. Higher price doesn't necessarily make the 5D more profitable.
> ...



True.


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## Ozarker (Jul 12, 2016)

davidmurray said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > The first spec list in a while from an unknown source has appeared for next months Canon EOS 5D Mark IV announcement. Most of it is probably a safe bet, though we don’t yet have confirmation on the resolution of the camera.</p>
> ...



Is that sarcasm?


----------



## Ozarker (Jul 12, 2016)

dilbert said:


> Only 1 problem: the price.



"Let them eat cake."


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## chemliu (Jul 12, 2016)

Do you guys think this camera will have dual pixel AF function? I really love that feature.


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## Drum (Jul 12, 2016)

I was putting a lot of thought into either paying up for a 1DXii (which I cannot justify to myself) a used 1DX (I really hate second hand gear) or even changing brand to Nikon..... I want a higher FPS for amateur sports and I'm starting off birding. I'm not too concerned if the buffer isn't the size of the 1DXii even a third of that would be 50 or so frames- Perfect!! (the 7d2 is what 31raw?) 
28mp is a decent bump from the 5d3 too without having to worry about the pixel blur that some people are reporting from the 5DS(r). As for the price point if it is too high at launch people will just have to wait till it drops.
As for me, IF these were the specs, I would be happy to upgrade, and also do it fairly soon too!!


----------



## Ozarker (Jul 12, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



I sure would at 9-10 FPS and would still be totally not in the market for a 1DX Mark II because of price. If a person like me were to buy a 5D Mark IV with 10 FPS it wouldn't cannibalize 1DX Mark II sales at all, and there are a whole lot of "me" out there.

The 5D Mark III was released 3 or 4 years ago. $4k is the new $3.5k 

Besides, the assumed "bump" in price to offset 1DX II cannibalized sales still assumes that the market for the 1Dx II is more profitable than the 5D IV market. I don't know, but I'd guess the 5D market volume is vastly more profitable than the 1DX Mark II's.

I think having to increase the 5D mark IV price by $500 to offset the "sales cannibalization" caused by a still 6 or 7 FPS difference between the two is way off base. Firing off a 5D mark IV (@9 FPS and a 5D mark III (@6FPS) at the same time as a 1DX mark II at the same subject would still leave the 1DX Mark II winning. It beats the two 5D models put together. There's a yuge difference between the two cameras.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Jul 12, 2016)

chemliu said:


> Do you guys think this camera will have dual pixel AF function? I really love that feature.


The possibility is 99%.


----------



## unfocused (Jul 12, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> GMCPhotographics said:
> 
> 
> > ...For weddings, I would choose a 5D3/4 over a 1Dx 1/2 any day. It's lighter, cheaper, easier to handle...and it's got that amazing silent shutter mode...
> ...



Just to be clear. Silent shutter on the 1D X II is a bit of a joke. Nothing like the 5D or the 7D. I expect that Canon may possibly need to hold down the frame rate in the Mark IV in order to preserve the silent shutter in the 5D. The 1D X II "silent" shutter is not going to please many wedding photographers.


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## transpo1 (Jul 12, 2016)

As someone who's waiting to see what Canon does with the 5DIV video features, I'll have a hard time justifying $3600 (assuming that's body only) when I can buy an A7RII or A7SII for less and with probably better dynamic range. I love the 5DIII, but sorry, tired of Canon trying to gouge video users. And no, not a troll. Include the new 24-105 for $3600 and I'm yours.


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## arbitrage (Jul 12, 2016)

Here are the 5DIV specs....

24MP
7FPS
4K 30
1DX2 all f/8 focusing with red points
ISO 25600
Low Iso DR improvements similar to 1DX2 and 80D
Addition of all the little features that have been brought out with the 7D2 and 5DSR like EC with auto ISO, anti-flicker, intervalometer, etc...

That is all you will be getting....pipe dreams of 30MP and 9FPS are just that.....


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## K (Jul 12, 2016)

arbitrage said:


> Here are the 5DIV specs....
> 
> 24MP
> 7FPS
> ...




I agree with the above. These will be the most likely specs.


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## Ryananthony (Jul 12, 2016)

although it won't happen, I would love a custom function button in the same place as the depth of field preview button on the battery grip for when shooting vertically. I use the depth of field preview button for IS and its a reach with when vertical. I would also accept the button to be moved a little bit lower on the body.


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## -1 (Jul 12, 2016)

bsbeamer said:


> bjornjd said:
> 
> 
> > davidmurray said:
> ...


If your nose is reasonably sized, like my fathers it will hit the screen way before the eye eclips the finder... 
Touch screens are designed and introduced to put a limited lifespan on the camera. Further, I live a winterland and do not wanna depend on special gloves to operate a camera.


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## bjornjd (Jul 12, 2016)

-1 said:


> If your nose is reasonably sized, like my fathers it will hit the screen way before the eye eclips the finder...
> Touch screens are designed and introduced to put a limited lifespan on the camera. Further, I live a winterland and do not wanna depend on special gloves to operate a camera.



A touch screen will NOT be in the way of the photographer on the 5DIV, just as it is not in the way in the 1DXII, or 80D.

It is not like the touch screen removes functionality. If the touch part would stop to work, you would still be able to operate the camera.

touch to focus together with dual pixel AF is amazingly good and I do hope we get it in the 5DIV.


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## winfel (Jul 12, 2016)

-1 said:


> If your nose is reasonably sized, like my fathers it will hit the screen way before the eye eclips the finder...
> Touch screens are designed and introduced to put a limited lifespan on the camera. Further, I live a winterland and do not wanna depend on special gloves to operate a camera.



You've never had a Canon with a touch screen, have you?

The sensor does not just turn it of when the viewfinder is touched but even a few centimeters before
Even if it would not you would not accidently do anything because you would have to activate touch functionality by clicking on the Q in the corner of the screen first
If you should not like it you could turn it off alltogether
Keep your gloves and use it like before

Even with touch screen cameras you do not have to use the touch funcionality. I have a 100D with a touchscreen but as my 6D and my 7D do not have one, I tend to forget about it and use it just like the other cameras without a problem.


----------



## Mr Majestyk (Jul 12, 2016)

arbitrage said:


> Here are the 5DIV specs....
> 
> 24MP
> 7FPS
> ...



Highly doubtful and you think 5DIV will have same ISO or less than 5D3.

Digic 7 will be ~ 100-120% faster throughput than digic 5 (based on each generational change seeing ~ 50-60% improvement), so even at 28MP easily able to support 9fps, which is still miles behind 1DXII fps and will not step on its toes. 5D3 showed 54% fps increase over 5DII, so 50% over 5D3 with two generations newer digic is plausible. ISO will run 100 - 51200 native and expansion will go to 204K, 1 stop less than 1DXII. 4K video will at least match 1DXII, they will not gimp this product. This will be seen as the better choice and fit for high end video tool. digic 7 will allow more advanced processing than digic 6 in hardware.


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## Viper28 (Jul 12, 2016)

Give or take a frame the 5D's frame rate has always been about 50% of the equivalent era 1D(s/x) body in normal operating mode so my money is on a 7-fps 5D4, bit slower than I'd like but I'd live with it. 
28mpx will do very nicely for me ditto the AF system
The rest is just sugar on the cake really


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## Dutchdavid (Jul 12, 2016)

Although I somehow doubt that the 5DIV will have some touch-screen functionality, it always makes me laugh when this issue comes up and people start screaming against it.
To me, it is always very obvious that the people who are so adamantly against touch-screen functionality have never used it, and do not how it actually works.

So let me clear up some misunderstandings:

first: Fear of (mechanical) weaknesses:
Touch screen is not necessarily linked to a „flippy screen" - as the new 1DxII clearly shows
So, from a mechanical point of view, nothing to worry about.

second: there is no reason that a non-movable („not-Flippy“) touch-screen should have more repair-issues that a conventional screen.
If replacement should be needed, it might be a little more expensive than a conventional screen - but the price-difference won’t be very much.

So, from a technical point of view… stop worrying.

third: Fear of losing button-functionality:
All camera-settings can still be reached and easily set using the regular buttons, if you like.
You might find however, that once you’re used to the touch-screen, it is very convenient.
So, for camera settings, you’ll have no disadvantages whatsoever - on the contrary.

fourth: fear of accidentally changing settings:
when you actually take your photographs, the touch-screen is automatically switched off when you half-press the shutter-release button.
As you have to actively press the „Q" or the „Menu" button the activate the touch screen, there is no danger that you will change anything by accident with you nose - or any other parts of your face.
As a side-note to this: Please realize that there are millions of cameras in users hands (from all different brands), that use touch-screen functionality, and have proven that there is nothing to worry about!

fifth: in replay / viewing mode: you still have all options available with the regular buttons - you do not lose anything here.
What you gain however, is the additional possibility to view your images as on a smartphone, with swipe and pinch etc.

So, from a usability-point of view… again… stop worrying.

So, to all of you who like to pound against touch screens: If you have personal negative experiences with touch screens… let us know! If not… what is all the fuss about?

Back to the upcoming 5DIV: This camera is definitely on my wish list, with or without touch-screen. But I think touch screen would be nice!


----------



## Bernard (Jul 12, 2016)

GMCPhotographics said:


> Bernard said:
> 
> 
> > One of the wedding shooters I second for uses a 1DX. Great camera
> ...



Did I hit a raw nerve?
The question was "are any wedding pros using the 1DX?" and I answered that one of the pros I shoot for does and loves it.
How you went from that simple information into a raging rant is beyond me!
Do you feel so insecure that you need to disparage other working professionals' equipment choices?

It's not about you, never was. Someone wanted to know if the 1DX is used in that application, and the answer is yes. Nobody ever implied that other cameras can't be used, or that your own choice of equipment isn't working for you.


----------



## Larsskv (Jul 12, 2016)

Bernard said:


> GMCPhotographics said:
> 
> 
> > Bernard said:
> ...



I took a note with regards to the viewfinder. Yes, both are 100%, but the 1DX has a significantly larger viewfinder, and I much prefer it over the one in my 5Ds.


----------



## -1 (Jul 12, 2016)

winfel said:


> -1 said:
> 
> 
> > If your nose is reasonably sized, like my fathers it will hit the screen way before the eye eclips the finder...
> ...



I just checked: I can operate my "M" with the nose but not with hand in glove... Whitout the gloves the fingers gets numb in winter weather... The "M" is a tad hard to operate without the tuchscreen... This camera will be memorebilia when the digitizer fails... 

Sure: The 5 series could have hardware controls for while... But for how long? It is a semiprofessional bridgecamera...


----------



## Dutchdavid (Jul 12, 2016)

Hi -1!
Since when is a 5D a semi-professional bridge camera? It is a full professional full-frame camera! Have you ever used it?


----------



## tron (Jul 12, 2016)

K said:


> arbitrage said:
> 
> 
> > Here are the 5DIV specs....
> ...


Me too. On the positive side if it's 24Mp it will probably have high iso capability closer to 1DxII than if it were 28Mp.


----------



## Chuck Alaimo (Jul 12, 2016)

Bernard said:


> GMCPhotographics said:
> 
> 
> > Bernard said:
> ...



The question wasn't, do wedding shooters use 1dx's - the question was will the 1dx2 become a dominate camera in the wedding field. I don't think the reply there was that off base. 5D series bodies are the go to for weddings because of the combo of build quality, features and yes - price. Are the 1D features nice, of course they are. But unless your banking 6k+ per wedding, the cost of a 1D series body is too high (unless you go with a previous generation version).


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## kaihp (Jul 12, 2016)

Dutchdavid said:


> Hi -1!
> Since when is a 5D a semi-professional bridge camera? It is a full professional full-frame camera! Have you ever used it?



In the US, the 5D3 is marketed as a semi-pro camera, whereas it is marketed as a pro camera in the EU.


----------



## ahsanford (Jul 12, 2016)

kaihp said:


> Dutchdavid said:
> 
> 
> > Hi -1!
> ...



I bristle at the notion that there's anything 'semi' serious about the 5D3, but it's amazing to see the spread of perspectives on what market 'buckets' to put this in:

Every wedding I go to, professionals are lugging two around their necks.

Wikipedia says it is semi-professional.

DXO (famously) calls it semi-professional.

The original product announcement in 2012 from Canon does not specify.

At Canon USA the word professional is nowhere in the spec list, main product write-up, or manual.

At B&H, Adorama, etc. it's a total mixed bag as they want to tout its "professional build" or "professional viewfinder" but don't want to hype themselves out of the enthusiast market.

It's a fascinating market identity trade-off, IMHO. Canon apparently doesn't want this thing thought of as a staple pro tool to maximize it's appeal to other segments.

- A


----------



## arthurbikemad (Jul 12, 2016)

Wiki...lol

Canon seems to think the 5D is pro  (well as you say, in the UK (( EU is dead  ))

http://www.canon.co.uk/for_home/product_finder/cameras/digital_slr/professional/


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## s2kdriver80 (Jul 12, 2016)

Speedlite RF master capability would be nice. Sure, would be tougher for the signal to propagate through metal but a limited short range would still be very useful.


----------



## GMCPhotographics (Jul 12, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> kaihp said:
> 
> 
> > Dutchdavid said:
> ...



So using your logic....does that mean a photographer is only a professional if he / she buys a 1Dx? 
No I don't think so....there are far more professional photographers (who make a living out of selling photos and their talent) who use a pair of 5D3's than 1Dx cameras. A camera does not define the photographer...the photographer does that.


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## ahsanford (Jul 12, 2016)

GMCPhotographics said:


> So using your logic....does that mean a photographer is only a professional if he / she buys a 1Dx?
> No I don't think so....there are far more professional photographers (who make a living out of selling photos and their talent) who use a pair of 5D3's than 1Dx cameras. A camera does not define the photographer...the photographer does that.



Climb off the philosophical high horse -- I agree with you. I'm talking about what the _market_ calls the product, not what we roles we use the cameras for.

What I'm saying is that _Canon itself_ appears to be fueling this market identity ambiguity. They must have some data that tells them that calling it 'professional' in certain markets will cost them business somehow.

- A


----------



## Ozarker (Jul 12, 2016)

dilbert said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



That could be said of any camera, including the 1DX Mark II. Professional grade camera is far from having a professional camera. 

There's no such thing as a professional camera. Cameras are cameras. They come in at different grades just like beef. 

It is the photographer that earns the living with the tool. It is the photographer that is the professional or not.

Don't care how good the gear is. If a man doesn't make his primary living as a photographer... he's no professional. Maybe he takes professional grade photos, but he himself is no professional.


----------



## Ozarker (Jul 12, 2016)

-1 said:


> bsbeamer said:
> 
> 
> > bjornjd said:
> ...



A man can have Pinocchio's nose and it won't cause a problem. 

The camera can still be operated without using the touch screen... fully operational. If it is that cold where you live and you have to wear snow gloves, you've got to take the gloves off anyway to operate the buttons (or have little holes in the finger tips).

"Touch screens designed to limit the life of the camera." Complete hogwash.


----------



## AdamWCohenVisuals (Jul 12, 2016)

The 5Dmk3 is an amazing tool. I love it. Mostly shooting portraits and weddings. It feels like the ideal Canon tool for weddings. It's versatility really comes in handy. More than enough pixels, more than enough fps, and some frankly miraculous AF performance in low-light conditions. 

If Canon could find a way to add spot metering linked to all cross-type AF points I'd be psyched. The technique used to achieve this in the absence of the feature isn't too cumbersome, but it would actually be helpful and I'd consider it a major upgrade to the 5D shooting experience. 

If Canon has improved low ISO noise performance, that would be great, but I don't see this as really problematic (never had a client notice or complain about it). I'm not talking about noise in deep shadows or noise from dirty sensors. I'm talking about a perfectly exposed shot at ISO 320 where the light shadows under a face or slightly darker out-of-focus backgrounds contain detectable noise. It would be better if the noise weren't there. 

I'm probably going to have a difficult time justifying the 5DmkIV on a "need" basis. When a video project comes up, I'm shooting with the C100 or C300, not a DSLR. The added cost for CFast cards that I don't need is lame. I'd have to incur this slightly higher cost because I need both memory slots filled when I'm shooting a wedding. Definitely not a deal breaker, but I would gain nothing from it. Zilch benefit for stills shooting. 

When the 5D mk4 comes out and there are price drops on brand new 5D mkIIIs, I think I may pick up one (or two) as back-ups.


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## Ozarker (Jul 12, 2016)

winfel said:


> -1 said:
> 
> 
> > If your nose is reasonably sized, like my fathers it will hit the screen way before the eye eclips the finder...
> ...



These out of touch know nothings worried about noses changing their settings pop-up every time a touch screen is mentioned on a new camera. They are either trolls or have never read a single thread speaking to this non-issue. Like cockroaches, they never go away. Even when it is explained to them they refuse to believe the truth.

I would, though, like to know where to get a set of those special touchscreen gloves.


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## Ozarker (Jul 12, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> LSXPhotog said:
> 
> 
> > ...if it's 9fps with mirror Down using the AF module, *my plans* to buy a 1DX2 have been lost...so *Canon will* likely NOT be doing this.
> ...



You totally beat me to it.  Canon design team says, " Kevin will never buy this camera in that configuration. Change the design. Dang it!"


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## Ozarker (Jul 12, 2016)

Why buy a 1DX Mark II at 16 FPS when one can buy a 7D mark III at 10 FPS and get extra reach?

Doesn't Canon realize how bad the 7D mark II is cannibalizing 1DX mark II sales? :


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 12, 2016)

Larsskv said:


> Bernard said:
> 
> 
> > GMCPhotographics said:
> ...



+1. The featherweight champ is just as good as the heavyweight champ, except, you know...one is bigger. : The 5DIII vs. 1D X viewfinder is like that. 

In a more general way, for some applications sure, the 5DIII is just as good as the 1D X, or substantially better (e.g. silent shooting). However, low light isn't one of them, since the 1D X has higher SNR and close to a full stop more DR at higher ISOs. 'Good enough for Jeff Ascough' doesn't mean 'just as good.' I think you are running some kind of prejudice in favor of the 5DIII...


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 12, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> kaihp said:
> 
> 
> > Dutchdavid said:
> ...



Canon USA makes no distinction of pro vs. semi-pro vs. entry level. Canon EU clealy includes both the 1-series and the 5-series in the 'professional' category. Canon Austraulia includes only the 1-series as professional the 5-series are grouped with the 6D, 7DII and xxD cameras as 'enthusiast' bodies. 

So, overall perhaps 'semi-professional' is a reasonable compromise. On a practical level, it's all irrelevant anyway - a professional earns a living doing whatever it is they're doing, any duffer can buy top of the line Taylor Made clubs, it doesn't put them on the PGA tour, much less make them Jason Day.


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## Don Haines (Jul 12, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Why buy a 1DX Mark II at 16 FPS when one can buy a 7D mark III at 10 FPS and get extra reach?
> 
> Doesn't Canon realize how bad the 7D mark II is cannibalizing 1DX mark II sales? :



Yes, but the 80D is cannibalizing 7D2 sales......

and the T6i is cannibalizing 80D sales......

and the iPhone is cannibalizing T61 sales.....

Therefore, rather than get a !DX2, get an .....


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## arthurbikemad (Jul 12, 2016)

I offered a neighbour some free portrait shots only this weekend, had my 5D3 in my bag with 200mm f2.0 and thought it would be nice to snap her girls all dressed up leaving for the school prom, was told no thanks we have done the shots on our iPhone... that shut me up!


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## -1 (Jul 12, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> winfel said:
> 
> 
> > -1 said:
> ...



Here ya go: http://www.spintoband.com/s-touch-screen-gloves

I've already responded to your other reservations... ヅ


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## kaihp (Jul 12, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> kaihp said:
> 
> 
> > In the US, the 5D3 is marketed as a semi-pro camera, whereas it is marketed as a pro camera in the EU.
> ...



Oops, my bad. I mixed AUS with US in this case.

Just so it's clear: I'm not endorsing Canon's labeling of the 5D one way or the other; I was merely reporting it for the discussion.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 12, 2016)

-1 said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > I would, though, like to know where to get a set of those special touchscreen gloves.
> ...



They're not that special any more. My wife and I have several pair in different styles that I got from REI. Heck, even my young kids' fleece gloves (North Face and REI-branded) have touchscreen capability. 

During the winter, I sometimes spend many hours in subzero temperatures shooting eagles and snowy owls. Thin, knitted gloves like those on the first page of the linked site would be woefully inadequate for those conditions. Personally, I use REI all-season tech gloves with REI Thermo glove/mittens worn over the thinner tech gloves. That allows me to have everything but the tips of my right thumb and index finger with two layers of coverage, while still enabling me to operate all the relevant camera controls and use my iPhone.


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## ahsanford (Jul 12, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> -1 said:
> 
> 
> > CanonFanBoy said:
> ...



+1. If you want your tech to coexist well with the outdoors, it's shocking how much stuff REI has to help with that. I wouldn't buy any camera bags or packs from them, but touchscreen gloves, desiccant, tiny carabiners (to build quick releases on your hiking pack shoulder straps), etc. -- they are far more tech-friendly than the earthy-crunchy 'put your screens away' vibe that they put out.

- A


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## Ozarker (Jul 13, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > Why buy a 1DX Mark II at 16 FPS when one can buy a 7D mark III at 10 FPS and get extra reach?
> ...



"While there are many good reason to own a Kodak Instamatic Camera, one good reason, is for the fun of it!"


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## Ozarker (Jul 13, 2016)

Bernard said:


> GMCPhotographics said:
> 
> 
> > Bernard said:
> ...



You ain't been 'round here long iffin you thank that wuz a ragin' rant stranger. Might be a dude like you would feel more safer in the city.


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## Ozarker (Jul 13, 2016)

-1 said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > winfel said:
> ...



Did you get the pink ones?


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## unfocused (Jul 13, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Personally, I use REI all-season tech gloves with REI Thermo glove/mittens worn over the thinner tech gloves.



I don't care about the touch-screen feature on the gloves. Are they warm? I have a real problem in the winter (I believe my fingertips were probably frostbitten at some point in the past). I have a pair of heavy, fleece mittens with a flip top (similar to those you reference) that work great (I got them at a hunting supply store). But, I have yet to find something sufficiently warm, yet flexible, that I can wear underneath them that keeps my fingertips from going numb, while also allowing me to access my camera controls. What's your honest opinion of the gloves (not the mittens)?


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 13, 2016)

unfocused said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Personally, I use REI all-season tech gloves with REI Thermo glove/mittens worn over the thinner tech gloves.
> ...



They're reasonably warm, but they're certainly not puffy snow gloves. I've kept gloved fingertips outside the mittens for an hour at ~25 °F, they get chilly but no worse. I should point out that I have an older version of the gloves I linked, mine have the conductive fibers but don't have those silver tips on the thumb/index finger – those are the fingertips I have out, and I don't know if the silver material is equivalent in terms of insulation. I think a pair of silk liners (thin) under the tech gloves might be something to consider.


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## -1 (Jul 13, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> -1 said:
> 
> 
> > CanonFanBoy said:
> ...


For the "M"? No... those won't do in subzero Celsius like -15C. I put the little bugger on auto and hope for the best! Exp -1 if it's sunny.


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## -1 (Jul 13, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Snow gloves looks kinda funny in an urban environment...


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## Ozarker (Jul 13, 2016)

arthurbikemad said:


> I offered a neighbour some free portrait shots only this weekend, had my 5D3 in my bag with 200mm f2.0 and thought it would be nice to snap her girls all dressed up leaving for the school prom, was told no thanks we have done the shots on our iPhone... that shut me up!



Don't feel bad. I had a running ad in the local paper and local facebook page for free portraits just so I could get some practice. 2 people took me up on it in 3 months. I've had "models" on ModelMayhem that had zero experience that I could tell, except for selfies posted, who asked for my resume before they would even consider talking to me: None of them will ever be paid models. MM is like watching the pre-competition tryouts for American Idol for the most part.

I'm thinking of making up a fake iPhone University Photography degree to send back to these self made diva's when they ask me for a resume. ("Model: Very experienced. Now look at my 30 iPhone selfie portfolio and send me your resume so I know you are not just some guy with a camera.")

I did shoot 1 unpaid girl from MM who was ecstatic about her photos. She posted them all over the place. Then we scheduled another shoot. She stood me up for another free photographer. 

I asked her how the shoot with the other guy went and she said the photos were horrible. Then she asked if I would edit the other guy's photos because he doesn't have Photoshop. My answer was no. I'm not going to fool around with another man's work, and that's not ethical. Oh, she wanted this for free too. 

Then she asked if I would photograph her again for free. My answer: "No. The next shoot will cost you $500 up front plus expenses for 4 hours." I'm not getting jacked around like that for free. Especially since it costs me money to scout locations etc. Essentially I was telling her I wasn't ever going to photograph her again after standing me up.

I have paid 1 model on MM who was a joy to work with. That's the last time I pay though.

I guess everybody is a model just like everybody is a photographer.

The lady two doors down asked me to take photos of her kids. We set up a morning shoot. I got up at 6 am, had my umbrellas, flash, test shots (using me and the self timer), everything ready to go. This was a free shoot, but I was really happy to get the experience. That's all I do. She and her children never came outside. The appointment was 8am, I stupidly waited around until 9:30.

When I saw her later in the afternoon she says: "My sister came to town and we were up drinking until 4:00am. I just couldn't get up this morning. Can we do it tomorrow morning?" No. Not tomorrow. Not ever. Don't even ask me. Not even if you pay me.

I've had better luck meeting pretty women in the Walmart who want free photos.

You guys who have young wives that like their photos taken are lucky.

As far as free shoots for neighbors, etc. I'm going to start asking for a $100 non-refundable sitting fee payable when we talk about when to shoot and have a contract with a $50 penalty for no shows. Then maybe they will not take things for granted and be so rude.. 

Yup, there are photographers all over town (High School girls and Soccer moms) doing complete shoots for $35 including editing, then handing over a CD to print themselves. I'm not going to allow myself to end up in that class of work.

_*I'm learning that free gets you absolutely no respect at all. No good will. Nothing! Free = Putz.*_ 

I can now shoot well enough to charge something up front, if nothing else to make sure the model shows up. Not as a business, but just to cover equipment upkeep or additions, and at least have the subject respect my time.

Totally off topic, sorry.


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## arthurbikemad (Jul 13, 2016)

lol, thanks FanBoy! Well I don't claim to be anything much, but now and then I get a good portrait lol, I'd hope the old Canon snaps a better image than a smartphone **, not saying the camera does the work but a good one will help if you want some nice prints, talking of prints I'd have run a few off for her also free-ish on my old 3880 and some nice A3+ hot press bright, but hey what do I know up against moonpig and smartphones haha

My photography is mostly about my love of life, looking at the world though some nice glass lets me see how lucky I am to be alive and well-ish, just nice sometimes to try and give someone something, but at times no matter how nice you try to be humanity just doesn't want friendship, it would rather flip nice people the bird and leave you stood wondering why you bothered lol

** smartphone photography, some people have a skill, best camera is the one you have with you at the time, check the iPhone awards http://www.ippawards.com/


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## Ozarker (Jul 13, 2016)

arthurbikemad said:


> lol, thanks FanBoy! Well I don't claim to be anything much, but now and then I get a good portrait lol, I'd hope the old Canon snaps a better image than a smartphone **, not saying the camera does the work but a good one will help if you want some nice prints, talking of prints I'd have run a few off for her also free-ish on my old 3880 and some nice A3+ hot press bright, but hey what do I know up against moonpig and smartphones haha
> 
> My photography is mostly about my love of life, looking at the world though some nice glass lets me see how lucky I am to be alive and well-ish, just nice sometimes to try and give someone something, but at times no matter how nice you try to be humanity just doesn't want friendship, it would rather flip nice people the bird and leave you stood wondering why you bothered lol
> 
> ** smartphone photography, some people have a skill, best camera is the one you have with you at the time, check the iPhone awards http://www.ippawards.com/



It is a strange world we live in. My niece, Delani, is a cheerleader for the San Diego Chargers. Maybe I can beg a free shoot with her... for MY benefit. She sure doesn't need me. :'(


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## Mr. Milo (Jul 13, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> arthurbikemad said:
> 
> 
> > I offered a neighbour some free portrait shots only this weekend, had my 5D3 in my bag with 200mm f2.0 and thought it would be nice to snap her girls all dressed up leaving for the school prom, was told no thanks we have done the shots on our iPhone... that shut me up!
> ...



Please share more stories. This is very interesting and helpful. I'm a Videographer and I worked for free for a long time learning the tricks of filming and editing. And that's when I was unemployed! LOL. I got it down though. The days of working for free are over, but that got me into a couple of spots that I would not have gotten if I did not work for free. It paid off. I have to see where it gets me in the future.

I recently had a client approach me. I gave them my rate for 2 days of filming and editing. The client stopped responding. It sucks, but I know I built up quality work and some equipment to get that rate. I hope the client responds back. 

I learned, after working for free (and ripped off, disrespected, humiliated, etc.) for a few years, to not wait and not care. I suppose that's the difference between me back in 2010 and me now.

Is there another thread for this? Just wondering.


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## j-nord (Jul 13, 2016)

I love stories like these, I don't know why I find them so entertaining, maybe start a thread to share them??? Portraiture has never interested me, mostly because it requires the BS of dealing with other people.


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## PeterAlex7 (Jul 14, 2016)

Is that price tag including the new 24-105 II ?


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## ahsanford (Jul 14, 2016)

PeterAlex7 said:


> Is that price tag including the new 24-105 II ?



Good lord, no. Expect the 5D4 + new L zoom kit to be $4k+.

- A


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## Berty Rampkin (Jul 15, 2016)

Very much doubt the wifi and GPS - might thoughts are they will be reserved for the lighter weight travel full frame...the 6d Mark ii


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## Ozarker (Jul 18, 2016)

dilbert said:


> If it wasn't for 4K video, the 5DIV would have very little reason to cost > $3000 and the argument for that comes in the form of the Pentax K1 that is selling for $1800 and giving 36MP on a FF sensor.
> 
> The market for FF cameras is interesting (excluding the pro cameras) ... at release ...
> 
> ...



The Pentax K1 is very enticing even on the lens front:

"Native mount lenses
Existing lenses designed for Pentax APS-C sensor size can of course be used on the Pentax K1, certainly in APS-C crop mode. Some of these even fill the full frame, or nearly so, at least over some portion of the range, so the full frame sensor can be mostly, perhaps even fully utilized (though with likely quality limitations)." **From diglloyd.com**   :

At least the sharp angles give me the impression it has a "stealth" mode for street photography.

The do make good medium format cams though. Probably with native lenses too.


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## kanehi (Jul 20, 2016)

Seems like good specs but forgot a couple of things such as an articulating screen and mirrorless.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 20, 2016)

kanehi said:


> Seems like good specs but forgot a couple of things such as an articulating screen *and mirrorless*.



Yeah, that one must have just slipped their minds.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jul 21, 2016)

davidmurray said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > davidj said:
> ...



I was just gonna say if there is any truth to this rumor at all,something like 9fps could be a trick to get leakers (with the real spec being 8fs or 10fps). But who knows.


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## aa_angus (Jul 24, 2016)

I'm hoping for above 28MP 
More cropping power, plus who doesn't love the satisfaction of 100% pixel peeping a beautifully sharp image?

Also, I'm surprised that some people seem to be concerned about the price. Photography is expensive. The latest high-end, fully spec'd body from one of the world's most established manufacturers is going to be expensive. It will also be worth it. I bought my 5DIII shortly after they were released in Australia. It has never let me down (has shot way over 300,000 exposures), and has given me access to an amazing piece of wonderful technology, which has stood the test of time remarkably. I consider it one of the best purchases I've ever made. You get what you pay for.


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## StudentOfLight (Jul 24, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> kanehi said:
> 
> 
> > Seems like good specs but forgot a couple of things such as an articulating screen *and mirrorless*.
> ...


Oh no, Canon decided to remove live view and permanently lock the mirror down like a SLT camera.


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## GMCPhotographics (Jul 24, 2016)

aa_angus said:


> I'm hoping for above 28MP
> More cropping power, plus who doesn't love the satisfaction of 100% pixel peeping a beautifully sharp image?
> 
> Also, I'm surprised that some people seem to be concerned about the price. Photography is expensive. The latest high-end, fully spec'd body from one of the world's most established manufacturers is going to be expensive. It will also be worth it. I bought my 5DIII shortly after they were released in Australia. It has never let me down (has shot way over 300,000 exposures), and has given me access to an amazing piece of wonderful technology, which has stood the test of time remarkably. I consider it one of the best purchases I've ever made. You get what you pay for.



The 5D3SR is 50mp @ 5fps, so I doubt that Canon will want to rob sales from that camera. So i think it's more likely the 5D4 will be 28mp at around 8.5 fps. This will bring the 5D4 into the same speed bracket as the 7DII and keep the differentiation between it and the 5D3SR. The 1DXII is pretty much in a class of its own and even at 8.5 fps, the 5D4 isn't in the same market (although it's arguably a more versatile camera). 28mp is a lot of resolution and shouldn't be underestimated. It wasn't all that long ago when 6mp was considered excessive.


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## tron (Jul 24, 2016)

Canon Rumors said:


> davidj said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...


Any news on fps at least? Just to keep us on edge 8) (I mean > CR1)


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## tron (Jul 24, 2016)

StudentOfLight said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > kanehi said:
> ...


it would be a world first indeed. A mirrorless with mirror ;D ;D ;D


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 24, 2016)

tron said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Was that what his comment meant? I couldn't figure out his point... ???


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## Michael Clark (Jul 25, 2016)

K said:


> arbitrage said:
> 
> 
> > Here are the 5DIV specs....
> ...



They'll probably push the frame rate to 7.51 fps so they can round it up to 8fps in the marketing materials. Of course that will only be at base ISO with wide open aperture, manual focus, and manual shutter speed faster than 1/2000.


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## tron (Jul 25, 2016)

Michael Clark said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > arbitrage said:
> ...


As long as its IQ comes close to 1DxII IQ I am OK with that.


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## StudentOfLight (Jul 25, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > StudentOfLight said:
> ...


I can put any of my current Canon DSLRs into liveview and operate them mirrorlessly. However, with this new camera, I'm led to believe that Canon glued the mirror down permamently so no one could ever use it mirrorlessly.


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## tron (Jul 25, 2016)

StudentOfLight said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > tron said:
> ...


You remind me of my EOS RT  But that was losing 2/3 of a stop due to the semitransparent mirror. Not good for high iso shooters...


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 25, 2016)

StudentOfLight said:


> I can put any of my current Canon DSLRs into liveview and operate them mirrorlessly.



*-less* \ˈles\ _adjective_: an adjective suffix meaning “without” (childless; peerless). 

I'm led to believe that you reach in with some pliers and yank out the mirror from your Canon dSLRs to 'operate them mirrorlessly'.


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## StudentOfLight (Jul 25, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > I can put any of my current Canon DSLRs into liveview and operate them mirrorlessly.
> ...


Not another camera accessory. Will 3rd-party pliers suffice or would you recommend I get the expensive made-in-Japan ones?


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## Sporgon (Jul 25, 2016)

My Canon 5D (mk I ) once turned itself into a FF mirrorless. It didn't work as well.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 26, 2016)

StudentOfLight said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > StudentOfLight said:
> ...



I'd say 3rd party is ok, as long as they have the same red accent found Canon L-series lenses...


----------

