# Canon competition to D610+14-24 f/2.8



## David - Sydney (May 26, 2015)

Not clickbait... hear me out...

I have been a decades long user of Canon. Currently 7D/10-22mm, 24-105 f/4, 70-200mm f/2.8II
7D is wearing out and I am getting to its limits (IMHO). So... what to replace it with. 
Night/astro/landscape is where I mostly use my 10-22mm lens and publish. Looking for high ISO/low noise... full frame and wider aperture would be ideal. Something to last for a long time would be ideal ie not getting previous generation equipment.

I have finally considered all options now I think:
7DmkII has great AF/video but not as good noise as 6D and is $100 more
6D has the best noise for Canon but poor AF. At least another year before replacement
5DmkIII is a great all rounder but is much more expensive and noise is on par with 7DmkII as far as I know
A7x has better noise but poor AF and mostly need 3rd party lens
Nikon 610 has better noise, good AF, high frame rate, dual slots, etc

Canon 16-35mm f/4 is a great lens but f/2.8 would be better. Wider would be a bonus
Canon 16-35 f/2.8 II doesn't have the sharpness/coma/ etc as the f/4 version. Replacement end-2016?
Nikon 14-24mm f/2.8 is well known as a great lens. Used on A7xx/Canon users using adaptors (without AF)
Canon 11-24mm is awesome but still f/4 and crazy price

In Australia, I can get 
6D+16-35mm f/4 is ~USD2560 (USD2270 grey market) old body, new lens
6D+16-35mm f/2.8II is ~USD3030 (USD2730 grey market) old body, old lens
D610+14-24mm f/2.8 is ~USD3200 (USD2880 grey market). Body/lens stable in market (price, quality etc)

I'm open to suggestions.... I am being too fussy but it is a big step for me either way.
https://www.flickr.com/photos/davidmarriottsydney/


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## donn (May 26, 2015)

It seems you're not into action photography so I would suggest 6D and the 16-35 F4 IS. It sounds like the 16-35 might be slow at F4, but it has IS. Plus, the 6D performs good at high iso.


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## drjlo (May 26, 2015)

What subject do you plan to shoot? That would decide what would make most sense; however, seeing the wide angle lenses mentioned, I'm guessing landscapes and non-fast moving subjects at most. If so, I'm quite happy with A7r+Canon 16-35 F4 IS.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 26, 2015)

David - Sydney said:


> Not clickbait... hear me out...
> 
> I have been a decades long user of Canon. Currently 7D/10-22mm, 24-105 f/4, 70-200mm f/2.8II
> 7D is wearing out and I am getting to its limits (IMHO). So... what to replace it with.
> ...



Nikon seems to turn out a minor update to their FF bodies every Year., Check the price for their lenses as well. Then, they charge extra for things included with your Canon camera, and, if you use live view, Nikon is pretty awful.

The 5D MK III has far less noise than a 7D MK II, but a tad more than a 6D.

I'm not sure why you think the 6D has poor AF. It has less points, but for your stated use, autofocus is not a issue in any event.

Lenses are where you need to plan for long term use, bodies change relatively frequently and there is always another coming out.

You also need to consider service and support. 

Be very careful about evaluating cameras based on specifications, you can get bit.


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## NorbR (May 26, 2015)

Can't go wrong with the 6D and 16-35 f/4L IS combination. 
If astro/nightscape photography is important, consider the Tamron 15-30/2.8 VC instead.


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## lholmes549 (May 26, 2015)

Assuming from your post that your main uses will be night/astro/landscape:

I was in pretty much the exact same position a year ago as you are now. I had 7D, Sigma 10-20, 24-105 f/4L, 70-200 f/4L and wanted to make the jump to full frame for better high ISO and overall IQ as I had started focusing on land/sea/nightscapes.

A year on (almost exactly) I've ended up with Canon 6D, Samyang 14mm f/2.8, Canon 16-35mm f/4L IS and still have the 24-105 and 70-200.

I decided this set up was right for me because I rarely, if ever, require anything beyond standard AF performance and shoot in MF for all landscape work on a tripod. That said, the centre AF point is great on the 6D. Noise performance and IQ are great, I couldn't justify 5D3 no matter how much I wanted to. 

Instead I spent the money on 14mm for nightscapes and the 16-35mm more recently for general landscapes.
I pretty much always use the 16-35 at f/8 or above so the f/2.8 would be a waste for me; when I'm shooting the stars and need f/2.8 I'm using the 14mm for the FOV anyway. 

Bottom line is you just have to decide for yourself based on your uses. For me, Canons lens and body line up doesn't give me reason to switch to Nikon, even though a 14-24mm f/2.8 would be lovely. 

If you're shooting landscapes and looking to do so on a budget, 6D + 16-35 F/4 all the way, and I highly recommend the Samyang 14mm. 

Here's a recent shot of the Aurora from here in Ireland using 6D+14mm.


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## mangobutter (May 26, 2015)

I'd go 6D/Tamron 15-30 2.8 VC. If you must have Canon and 2.8, then the 16-35 is obvious. I've owned the 16-35 2.8 Canon (Version II) before and it is extremely sharp wide open (center and midframe)! Of course its corners are nothing to write home about but all the online reviewer hype is blown out of proportion. In real world use its not a deal breaker. I own the 16-35 F4 IS now. It's a great lens of course but you seem to need/want 2.8. I sometimes think about trading my 16-35 F4 IS for a Tamron 15-30... but the downside is size, weight, and bulbous front element. For wide 2.8 purposes, I have my Samyang 14.


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## Sporgon (May 26, 2015)

Some lovely work there; I think you'll find a decent jump forward with any FF for landscape type work. I don't see you putting much strain on the AF system, or f/2.8 for that matter.

So you'd be saving $800 with the 6D + remarkable 16-35 IS, but in the end it's down to personal preference, nothing more.


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## neuroanatomist (May 26, 2015)

+1 for the 6D + Samyang/Rokinon 14/2.8.


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## tron (May 26, 2015)

My favourite astro equipment is 5DMkIII + Canon EF14mm 2.8L II.

During a walk I saw a used Canon EF14mm 2.8L II in a shop window.

I asked for a possibility of a part exchange and I got a positive answer.

So finally it cost me around 700 euros. I took it and enjoy it since then.


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## phuangk (May 27, 2015)

+1 to Canon 6D + Samyang/Rokinon/Bower 14mm F/2.8 UMC
I use my Samyang 14mm F/2.8 for Aurora/Milkyway shooting and use 16-35mm F/4L for other landscape shooting.


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## tron (May 27, 2015)

@phuangk: Nice photos and nice place! Where exactly did you take these pictures?


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## Nelu (May 27, 2015)

David - Sydney said:


> 5DmkIII is a great all rounder but is much more expensive and noise is on par with 7DmkII as far as I know



Well, I`m afraid you are wrong here. The 5D Mark III is in a different league than the 7D Mark II. 
Yes, it is more expansive but you get what you pay for.

Nelu


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## phuangk (May 27, 2015)

tron said:


> @phuangk: Nice photos and nice place! Where exactly did you take these pictures?



Took those photos @ Yellowknife, NWT, Canada.


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## Hjalmarg1 (May 27, 2015)

donn said:


> It seems you're not into action photography so I would suggest 6D and the 16-35 F4 IS. It sounds like the 16-35 might be slow at F4, but it has IS. Plus, the 6D performs good at high iso.


+1, I actually second this opinion


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## Hjalmarg1 (May 27, 2015)

NorbR said:


> Can't go wrong with the 6D and 16-35 f/4L IS combination.
> If astro/nightscape photography is important, consider the Tamron 15-30/2.8 VC instead.


Yeah, Tamron 15-30/2.8 VC is a great option for astrophotography as per some reviews and a a little wider than Canon ones.


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## tron (May 27, 2015)

Hjalmarg1 said:


> NorbR said:
> 
> 
> > Can't go wrong with the 6D and 16-35 f/4L IS combination.
> ...


Well, not wider than 14 2.8L II. As for being wider than the 16-35 sure. But its front element is more like the 14mm 2.8. It is a bulbous one which is a flare magnet that cannot be protected by hood (from side lights, an annoyance to astrophotography). But, I agree that it is a general purpose wide angle zoom that can be used in astrophotography too.


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## David - Sydney (May 28, 2015)

Hi Guys. Appreciate your comments and thoughts.

To answer some questions.. I don't publish my sports/karate/indoor event shots but do share them with my friends etc via drop box. The AF is important from that perspective but the 7D/70-200mm (sometimes with 1.4x) would still manage this using my 7D until the shutter starts to cark it.

Looks like the consensus (and the right approach) is for 
=> 6D + 16-35mm f/4 for general landscape where I use f/9-11 normally. 
Benefit is also 77mm filters mean that i can keep my current set of filters

People swear by the 14mm f/2.8 Samyang and yet I see a lot of discussion about quality and calibration eg. returning it to be fixed and/or manually calibrating it yourself especially for infinity focusing. Then again, for the price and for astro it makes sense to just get it. 2 lens then but still cheaper than switching OEM.

If I used the Samyang/14-24mm Nikon + adpator/Tamron 15-30/11-24mm Canon for general landscape with high DR I will need to invest in a new set of filters (Fotodiox/Lee/Cokin/etc) due to their shape. This could be another step in the future but 6D low noise should help with pushing in post in the meantime.


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## lholmes549 (May 29, 2015)

David - Sydney said:


> If I used the Samyang/14-24mm Nikon + adpator/Tamron 15-30/11-24mm Canon for general landscape with high DR I will need to invest in a new set of filters (Fotodiox/Lee/Cokin/etc) due to their shape. This could be another step in the future but 6D low noise should help with pushing in post in the meantime.



I don't think you're likely to need filters for the 14mm if you have a good filter kit for the 16-35. When I got my 16-35 f/4 I invested in the Lee System and some of the Formatt-Hitech Firecrest filters, and I haven't yet felt like I was missing anything with the 16-35 and filters that I could have got better with the 14mm and filters. 

The reality is that investing in a filter set up to accommodate the 14mm is going to get pretty expensive, so it's up to you to balance if it's worth it. Of course if you have a Nikon 14-24 then it makes sense to get a filter set up that works with it, but accommodating filter set ups for both 14mm samyang and the 16-35 could get pricey.

I bought the samyang filter holder for the 14mm and one ND8 grad, but I have yet to use it as it's so large it's extra hassle to carry. Much more convenient using the Lee system on the 16-35.


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## jeffa4444 (Jun 4, 2015)

I have the Canon 6D with the EF 16-35mm f4L IS. Ive always been happy predominately with the 6D performance I mainly shoot landscape but I do shoot airshows and had no issues with the 6D that would change the decision again today. The EF 16-35mm f4L well what else is their to say about it the lens is outstanding and Im more than happy with its performance on the 6D.


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## jeffa4444 (Jun 4, 2015)

Forgot to add the Nikon 14-24mm f2.8G also requires larger filters like those used in the Lee Filters SW150 system which is much more expensive than the standard 100mm system


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## K (Jun 4, 2015)

David - Sydney said:


> Not clickbait... hear me out...
> 
> I have been a decades long user of Canon. Currently 7D/10-22mm, 24-105 f/4, 70-200mm f/2.8II
> 7D is wearing out and I am getting to its limits (IMHO). So... what to replace it with.
> ...




You mentioned the 5D3 which is going for around $2K gray market. If that is an option pricewise, then you ought to also consider the Nikon D750.

In the US, it is running just under $2K. 

This gives you the lowest noise. Very good ISO performance. A little more resolution than the Canon choices. And dual card slots (since you mentioned it as a desirable trait of the D610). It's the best sensor in a DSLR currently.

It also falls in line with your concern about not purchasing previous generation equipment. While the 6D is current, it is nearing the end of the road. D750 is new.

Currently, nothing from Canon is going to give you a wide angle zoom as sharp or as good as Nikon's with 2.8. 

I would have recommended the Canon14mm 2.8 L, but it costs as much or more than Nikon's zoom. That is unfortunate. 


You should have put "astro" in your thread title. There are some Exmor sensor fanatics that visit here that would surely chime in and explain the advantages of this sensor (what is in the Nikon FF cameras) for night, astro and landscape photography.


Based on what you've said in your post - you are an ideal candidate for getting into the Nikon system.


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## JohnBran (Jun 4, 2015)

jeffa4444 said:


> Forgot to add the Nikon 14-24mm f2.8G also requires larger filters like those used in the Lee Filters SW150 system which is much more expensive than the standard 100mm system


I think person buying Nikon 14-24mm f2.8G is not worried about the cost of filters.


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## ksgal (Jun 4, 2015)

I would read up on this guy:

http://clarkvision.com/reviews/evaluation-canon-7dii/index.html

http://clarkvision.com/reviews/evaluation-canon-6d/index.html

You may find you can do both sports and astrophotography with the 7DII - but will need to study up on the techniques this guy uses for processing to get the best out of the camera.


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## StudentOfLight (Jun 4, 2015)

dilbert said:


> David - Sydney said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


If you have a foreground subject then do you shoot two images and composite? An aperture of f/2.8 might not give enough depth of field depending on the distance to the foreground subject and the focal length.


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## AcutancePhotography (Jun 4, 2015)

I would not say that the 6D has poor AF. The AF may not be as good as other models, but that does not mean that it is bad AF. You want to avoid that way of thinking when looking at alternatives. 

Good luck with your decision.

Honestly, I don't see how you can go wrong with either the Canon or the Nikon. Both make good bodies and good lenses. Go with the system you personally prefer and never take pictures of grass on the other sides of fences. The color never comes out accurate. ;D


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## John.Andersen95 (Jun 4, 2015)

David - Sydney said:


> Not clickbait... hear me out...
> 
> I have been a decades long user of Canon. Currently 7D/10-22mm, 24-105 f/4, 70-200mm f/2.8II
> 7D is wearing out and I am getting to its limits (IMHO). So... what to replace it with.
> ...



I have a 6D and Rokinon 14mm, Canon 16-35f2.8 mk2, 24-70 f2.8mk2, and I just picked up the Tamron 15-30 VC f2.8 for night photography the 6D is the best choice right now. Photo is using the 14mm Rokinon f 2.8 14mm


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## weixing (Jun 4, 2015)

dilbert said:


> David - Sydney said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


Hi,
I think in Astrophotography, F4 is consider fast... if you want to avoid star trail, a better option is to use a tracking mount. The disadvantage will be if your image contain terrestrial object, it'll not be that sharp, but will not be as obvious as star trail.

Have a nice day.


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## Click (Jun 4, 2015)

John.Andersen95 said:


> I have a 6D and Rokinon 14mm, Canon 16-35f2.8 mk2, 24-70 f2.8mk2, and I just picked up the Tamron 15-30 VC f2.8 for night photography the 6D is the best choice right now. Photo is using the 14mm Rokinon f 2.8 14mm



Very nice shot, John....And welcome to CR.


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