# I need some help my Canon friends!



## treyconnally (Oct 18, 2012)

Here's the deal okay...

I shoot weddings, senior portraits and street style photography. I have a 5D MKii and enjoy it thoroughly. I found a ridiculously amazing deal on a Canon 1vHS & love it. Using this EOS-1 Series body has spoiled me, and having more than 9 AF points is lovely. I HATE GRABBING MY 5D MKii...

I've got all the "Wedding Glass" with the exception of maybe the 135mm/f2 or 85mm/f1.2.... But that's not the problem...

I have recently become obsessed with film. However...

*Pros:*
Pictures look sexy.
Nostalgic.

*Cons:*
Film is expensive.

I've run across a wedding photography who shoots medium format (film) and his pictures are breathtaking... They are insane. But ITS FILM, and medium format at that! $$$$ 

So, I'm at this weird crossroads where everything is hitting me all at one time. I've got great gear, more than enough to make anyone happy. I've worked hard for my gear. And I think I'm just ready for a fresh start. I am familiar with Leica's and comfortable with manually focusing. I use to use Nikon equipment so I'm familiar with it. I've never shot medium format. I love the look of the Canon 1.2 primes...

It's truly a mid-camera crisis. Again, I'm not afraid of fresh starts. I'm just looking for some advice from the peeps here before I get in over my head.


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## sandymandy (Oct 18, 2012)

I suggest u give urself more time until u have calmed down and arent so excited about getting near gear. 
Ohh and do u really think film is so expensive? Sounds to me like u just wrote that only for that fact to have some contra. Cmon man for the price of a Leica u can buy gazillions of films 


p.s. can u gift me ur 5d mk2 ? im poor and cant afford it myself


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## vuilang (Oct 18, 2012)

are you exceeding the 5d2? what dont you like about 5d2? do you think the IQ from 1vhs (film) is better than 5d2?.. if you hate the body format of 5d2 and like 1d series. Why dont you buy a 1ds3 or 1dx or etc?
thinking shooting wedding with film, manual focus, developing & PP??. you're very brave.


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## Rat (Oct 18, 2012)

[edit] he got himself a 1VHS already *facepalm* [/edit]


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## Hillsilly (Oct 18, 2012)

Don't forget that it is widely accepted that film shooters are just plain sexier. Seriously, every cool character who is taking photos in a movie or an ad is carrying a hasselblad, Leica or other film camera. Only computer geeks shoot digital. Getting into film might lead to having your own darkroom - If you meet someone at a club, you can invite them back to your darkroom to see what develops. And if you want to be taken seriously as an artist, well... There are a lot of pros to shooting film.

But as a negative, you do know most medium format cameras have 0 AF points?

Anyway, not sure why you think medium format is so expensive. You can pick up a nice Mamiya kit for a few hundred dollars. It might cost $1 to $1.50 per photo, but the reality is you probably won't shoot as many as photos as you would with digital - With the manual focusing, manual film advancing, and the cost per shot, you think twice about each photo. This keeps the cost down a bit. And think of how superior you'll feel to those people using tiny, miniscule FF sensors.

Personally, I go through love/hate periods with 35mm film. Whereas I like the look of medium format and shoot it a lot, for the last couple of years I've preferred digital to 35mm and my trusty Canon film bodies have been gathering dust. But a 1v is a nice camera. Its probably the best film camera Canon will ever make. It uses your current lenses. Apart from still being a bit pricey, what's there to lose? If you get bored with it, just sell it.

BTW, a 1Ds3 is suggested above. A 1Ds2 won't break the bank, give good image quality and give you the 45 point AF and 1 series feel and build quality, but then a 5D3 will also do all of this and is also probably better.


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## Nishi Drew (Oct 18, 2012)

Wish I had all those kinds of gigs, and you're bothered by something really personal...
Well, you have the lenses so get something like an EOS3, eye controlled AF! I was thinking of getting one,
seems like a neat system to try out. If you're good with the 5D2 and you just want to shoot more film then EOS3 or what others suggest, if you're thinking of vintage bodies then that's all for looks really, you're not getting an advantage unless you're going for some real nice legacy lenses. Leica has nice stuff, but Leica is for people that don't need the job anyways, if you can afford a full system from them then why not let someone else shoot those weddings :


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## sanj (Oct 18, 2012)

Do it. Shoot film all your heart desires. How can it hurt????

I wish I had the balls and the know how to do it. 

Go for it.


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## 7enderbender (Oct 18, 2012)

Here are some thoughts:

First off I can understand the urge to add film to the mix. Is still have and use my Canon FD gear and have been tempted more than once to add either a 1V or a fully equipped F1n to the bag. Same goes gor any old Mamaya or Hasselblad medium format camera. Their just plain beautiful and produce stunning images.

That being said: I struggle with the "nostalgia" aspect of it. If done right film doesn't look instagrammy or whatever. Especially medium format film still blows our 5ds out of the water. Close perhaps, but still.

To me this approach only makes sense if you set up your own dark room and print on real photo paper. The notion of scanning negatives and then do the usual stuff in photoshop or so doesn't make much sense to me. So that's one thing that has stopped me so far to pick up a medium format film camera. I don't have the time or extra space right now to set up everything you need to do it right. But I'm pretty sure it'll happen one day again.


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## paul13walnut5 (Oct 18, 2012)

You have a 1VHS, and 'all the lenses', so why go MF? MF is slow, expensive, difficult to scan, overkill and clumsy.

One school of thought would be to buy a second EOS film body, load one with XP2, load another with reala 100.

But if you want to use something different, then I would steer you away from Leica and towards a contax G2 kit.
Cheaper, arguably better - or at least comparable- optically, but with AF if you ever want it, with AE if you ever want it.

And they are probably at their nadir price wise, some nice complete kits out there for a fraction of new or even a used leica set up.

It does seem silly that you are loving the 1VHS and yet want to move away from all of that... why not get a used 3, also silly silly cheap. You may love ECF, and it handles and performs like 95% of the 1VHS, for about 30% of the price.


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## treyconnally (Oct 18, 2012)

sandymandy said:


> Ohh and do u really think film is so expensive? Cmon man for the price of a Leica u can buy gazillions of films


Well, when digitally i can get prints for .13 and film cost $6 per roll of film to get color corrected, developed, and printed; then I consider film more expensive. I totally admit this was a diva question, I just truly am ready for something new.



sandymandy said:


> p.s. can u gift me ur 5d mk2 ? im poor and cant afford it myself


If I had weddings booked for the rest of the year and once I got my new camera, I wouldn't mind doing that at all. But I'm gonna need to sell it to get something else.



vuilang said:


> What dont you like about 5d2? Do you think the IQ from 1vhs (film) is better than 5d2? If you hate the body format of 5d2 and like 1d series. Why dont you buy a 1ds3 or 1dx or etc?


I don't like how slow (compared to the 1v) the 5D MKii is. And if I'm going to have AF Points at all, then I want to have enough where they work without me having to grab for manual focus.



vuilang said:


> Thinking about shooting a wedding with film, manual focus, developing & PP??. You're very brave. Well, I shot a ceremony with Manual Focus only before with an old film camera as an assistant, and it wasn't all that tough. Sending out for development is where the pain in the neck would be. It is risky, but It has that natural film look.





Hillsilly said:


> But as a negative, you do know most medium format cameras have 0 AF points?


Oh yeah, I'm totally aware of that. And my only complaints about the AF Point is that if I have them at all, I want to only use them. I feel like I grab for manual focus on my 5D often.



Hillsilly said:


> Anyway, not sure why you think medium format is so expensive. You can pick up a nice Mamiya kit for a few hundred dollars. It might cost $1 to $1.50 per photo, but the reality is you probably won't shoot as many as photos as you would with digital - With the manual focusing, manual film advancing, and the cost per shot, you think twice about each photo. This keeps the cost down a bit. And think of how superior you'll feel to those people using tiny, miniscule FF sensors.


I truly had no idea that Medium Format could be that cheap. I only know of like Hasselblad 503c & Contax 645AF... Obviously, I need more research in this area.

I love my 1vHS. It's incredible. But a 1-series digital body is the way I am thinking everything will turn out...



Hillsilly said:


> A 1Ds2 won't break the bank, give good image quality and give you the 45 point AF and 1 series feel and build quality.


Is that better than my 5D MKii though?



sanj said:


> Do it. Shoot film all your heart desires. How can it hurt????
> 
> I wish I had the balls and the know how to do it.
> 
> Go for it.


I'm not sure it would hurt.


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## SJTstudios (Oct 18, 2012)

You've got some good gear. The 5d ii is a bit outdated, so you should get a 5d iii or 1ds iii. It also seems that you are dreaming of film, film is good, but is not something that will make you better. Go for a new body, and keep using digital. They make these things the best for a reason. The guy you probably met, has refused to move over. Your film slr is good, but not for buissiness, unless it's what you've trained on and you have the money. You could start doing film once you've purchased every prime, and short zoom. Good glass really makes you better. So get a new dslr, or get some more glass.


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## treyconnally (Oct 18, 2012)

Thanks for the feedback everyone!

It looks like you guys think I should either:

Keep what I've got.

OR

Sell & get a 1D____ (Fill in the blank)​
If that's the case, what would you suggest I sell, and what would you suggest I NOT sell in order to upgrade to a 1D Series body? Thank again everyone!


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## ishdakuteb (Oct 18, 2012)

treyconnally said:


> Thanks for the feedback everyone!
> 
> It looks like you guys think I should either:
> 
> ...



oh... i am really good at this part... i pick the second one "sell & get a 1D__X__" since i am not aware of any newer version of 1D on market, but 1DX


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## sandymandy (Oct 18, 2012)

treyconnally said:


> sandymandy said:
> 
> 
> > p.s. can u gift me ur 5d mk2 ? im poor and cant afford it myself
> ...



Oh thats very kind of you! If u have anything else u can get rid of feel free to gift it to me. Hopefully we will have snow then i will take pics of me wearing only shorts and laying in the snow (or swimming?!) with the camera/lens u have for me  

oh and get *1D X* its really wesome from what ive seen an read.


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## CharlieB (Oct 19, 2012)

I still shoot the occasional wedding... lugging a 500c/m and 60mm lens, and softbox and pair of 283's that still work great. And film.

I may switch to the 5Dmk2. I've got to do a lot of testing. I have a local lab that still does creditable work, at ... increasingly higher, but still ok prices. Nobody wants to pay for it any more. Sad.


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## crasher8 (Oct 19, 2012)

Film is not dead and your passion is a testament to that. Keep it in the Canon family and all your lenses are swappable. Now that I'm shooting FF I have so many less issues with swapping back and forth from digital to analog. You don't have a problem you have an opportunity.


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## Hillsilly (Oct 19, 2012)

And in additon to higher prices, my local lab has gone from daily E6 processing to weekly processing. Not that that's a major inconvenience, but its all addded up to me becoming primarily a B & W photographer. 

But back on topic, have a look at the Mamiya RB67 and RZ67. People are practically giving these away. The Mamiya 645 is also a good option as it has some faster lenses and some models have built in light meters. Some even autofocus. If you're ever thinking of adding a digital medium format back, the 645AFD is probably the best option. But you can also fit digital backs on RZ67s, too (but with a crop factor). Personally I've switched from an RB67 to a Mamiya 6 as it is a lot lighter. But for any critical work, the RB67 and RZ67s are almost as good as they get as far as medium format system cameras go - Hasselblad being the obvious leader.

And black and white 120 film isn't that expensive or difficult to process yourself. Even printing is reasonably easy at a basic level. Darkroom equipment also sells very cheaply.


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## TAF (Oct 19, 2012)

If you want to add MF to the mix, my advice would be to add a Rollei TLR to your collection.

I would recommend the 2.8E model as they can be found for reasonable prices, and have spectacular optics. And look special to your average person. The F and G versions are still too expensive IMO.

I might also suggest upgrading the 5D2 to at least a 5D3 (or a 1DX if the wallet permits).

Film most definitely still has it's place, but I don't think I would dump all the digital stuff and go back.

I have a 5D3 (with a bunch of glass), a 2.8E, as well as a Super Ikonta 6x9. Different tasks require different tools.

P.S. - try out a Hassy before buying one (actually, that probably goes for anything different you might go for). Personally, I'd never own a Hassy, since for some reason I cannot see through the viewfinder properly. Whether it is my glasses or something else, they're the only camera I've ever tried that I literally couldn't use. I had no problem with the Rollei SL66 (essentially the same physical design), but something with the 500 CM just didn't work for me. Your experience will no doubt vary.


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## dr croubie (Oct 19, 2012)

I know some of what I'm going to say has probably been covered already, but here's what's happened to me recently.

Started with 7D. Saw the TS-E lenses, got intrigued, then saw the pricetags.
Then I started reading about Pentacon Six, and $100 tilt-adapters from P6-EOS. So i bought a few P6 lenses (and a few Kiev 88/Hassy 1000 lenses and a $20 adapter from them to P6-mount). A year or two later, and I've got pretty much the whole lens set, in Zeiss 50/80/120/180/300 and Soviet 30/65/80/90/250 (and a lot of double i've been meaning to sell, you want?).

After collecting all that glass and only using it on my 7D, it was at that point that the 5D mk3 got announced (with its pricetag). I calculated for the same price I could spend $200 on an EOS3, and take a least a few hundred rolls of film before I began to get anywhere near 5D3 price-territory, so an EOS3 i got.

Then I finally bit the bullet, and thought about getting a Pentacon Six to go with all that lovely glass, so I did. Plus a Kiev Prism (better than the pentacon prism), new bright fresnel/split-prism focussing screen, and prism mount-adapter. Probably came in at $200 including the shipping (would have been a lot less buying one with all the stuff together, rather than in bits and bobs).

Then I found a good bulk-deal on ebay. It was $400 for a Zeiss MC Sonnar 180/2.8 and MC Flektogon 50/4. Or at least, that's a good price for those two by themselves. So it effectively came with a free Zodiak 30mm fisheye, 90mm MC Volna, Kiev 60 (with bright screen), and Prism. (not a bad deal, all up, I reckon I could sell just the fisheye for $150, I already had one so it's a double).

And just recently (although I didn't mean to, wifey, honest), I 'accidentally' put in a bid on a Mamiya 645AF for just less than $400 shipped and won. $100 later for an extra film back, and a $20 P6-M645 adapter, and it works great, got my first roll of velvia in it now.
And the best part is that i don't need any glass for it, although the option's there (especially for the 35mm and 80mm f/1.9, no P6-equivalents of those). M645 also takes Pentax 67 lenses via adapter, in case a 45mm Takumar comes up cheap one day.



So what's the lessons for you?
Firstly, decide on a format Now. Square 6x6, or 6x45, (or 6x7)? Either way, Pentacon Six-Mount Zeiss glass is good, it can be used on P6, M645, Contax 645, and Pentax 645 by adapter. Pentax 67 can be used on all x645, but not P6 (although i'm working on my own adapter). Hasselblad glass is just as good (mostly the same Zeiss designs anyway), but you pay more for the Hassy mount and the Leaf shutter (which is useless unless you have a Hassy body anyway).

In P6, lenses to look out for are the Flektogon 50mm f/4 (the 65mm isn't that good, apparently), Biometar 80/2.8 and 120/2.8, Sonnar 180/2.8 and 300/4.0. MC is better for flare, of course (some people think that the earlier 'zebra' versions are best because later on the East Germans had trouble getting good glass. I've got some of either type, I don't believe it). As always with 2nd-hand 20-60 year-old glass, how well it's been treated recently affects IQ more than how it left the factory last century.

If you then go the Square route, you can get a P6 or Kiev 60 (actually, the Kiev 60 is better built imho, like a Soviet Tank, although it weighs as much as one too, much heftier than the P6), or Kiev 88CM ('hasselbladski', because it's a cube-camera, if you prefer that look). Or a real hasselblad, but then bodies are more expensive and so is the glass.

There's also the Exakta 66, like a P6 but with aperture-coupled prism and Schneider glass. Probably costs more than a Hassy by the time you're done, $600 body and $700 kit-lens. (The lenses and bodies between P6 and E66 are almost always changeable to the other type though, so if you get a good deal on one you can buy the cheaper other)


And between the three main 6x45 versions:

- Mamiya is current and still in production (some co-branded as Phase One).
Any Sekor C or Sekor N lens dating back to the M645 can be used on any M645 camera, 1960 to today.
Any M645 AF lens can only be used on AF, AFD, DF etc cameras (or wide-open only on older versions).
Digital backs can only be used on AFD and DF cameras (ie, not the M645AF which i've got).
On the older side, the last 3 Manual Focus bodies are the Super, Pro, and ProTL, these are the better ones to get, fully interchangeable waist-level-finders and mid-roll-changeable film backs. There are some older versions that had cut-back features.
On the new side, the AF etc versions you can't change to a waist-level finder, finder is fixed. The 645AF I've got has one AF point, but i've got no AF lenses anyway (still, it's nice to have the option).
An MF body with metered prism and back might set you back $300-400.
An AF body might be $400-500.
An AFD or later body and you're at $700+

- Contax 645 is discontinued (but leaf/phase one still make Digital backs for them).
But the glass is to cream yourself over. Distagon 35mm and Planar 80mm f/2.0, baby. The 35mm Distagon is almost exactly the same as the ZE 21mm distagon, just bigger. Read any review of the 21mm and you'll see what I mean.
They also had a 'vacuum back' to hold the film flatter. Again: the price.
but yep, they're damned expensive, and rarer. A second-hand C645 body can still cost as much as a 7D. The AF is a '100k pixel sensor', sounds like Contrast-detect to me. So possible more accurate, probably still shit-slow.

- Pentax 645 I didn't investigate much, mostly because you can't change the back mid-roll to swap to a different film. But then I didn't realise that getting a film-back for an M645 would cost over $100 anyway, so i've only got 1 back anyway. They still make lenses, I don't know about second-hand film-body prices though.


There's other versions, like the 645 Hasselblads H1-H3 that can take film. Again, too expensive (although the glass is damn nice). H4 doesn't take film.
Rollei SL66 is a wonderful machine, with perfect Zeiss glass same as the Hassies and P6. But they're more collectors' pieces these days so prices are high. Lenses can't be adapted because they have no focussing helicoid (focussing was in the body, same as Mamiya RB&RZ.
Rollei 6008-series also good, also more expensive (although it's the only MF body that can meter with a waist-level finder), and glass-prices to match.
Zenza Bronica I know nothing about, although glass is apparently good.



tl;dr. Pentacon Six / Kiev 60 bodies and/or lenses. Or Mamiya 645 bodies and P6 lenses.
That's your best start on a budget.


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## dr croubie (Oct 19, 2012)

ps, all of that advice was written presuming you already know you want an MF body.
Because I know you want one, and you know you want it too.
(and who says you can't shoot film in the dark? I've shot Ilford Delta P3200 at iso4000 on MF, by the time it's scanned and scaled to the same size, the grain looks better than the same shot on my 7D with all the noise.)

pps, for really fine-grained B+W, look for Efke KB 25. I'm shooting a roll in my K60 tomorrow at a mate's wedding (i'm not official photog). Damned fine grain. This guy seems to like it.

ppps, I have too much equipment. I think i have a problem. Please help.


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## sandymandy (Oct 19, 2012)

I will take some off of you for free. I wont sell it!


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## RLPhoto (Oct 19, 2012)

treyconnally said:


> Here's the deal okay...
> 
> I shoot weddings, senior portraits and street style photography. I have a 5D MKii and enjoy it thoroughly. I found a ridiculously amazing deal on a Canon 1vHS & love it. Using this EOS-1 Series body has spoiled me, and having more than 9 AF points is lovely. I HATE GRABBING MY 5D MKii...
> 
> ...



While MF is a different beast, I believe that you should stick to your canon gear and Invest into a film hasselblad with the standard contax-zeiss 80mm f/2.8. See how you like it and then move on from there.


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## bdunbar79 (Oct 19, 2012)

Get a 1DX. Seriously. I print all of my photos in sports to 8 x 10 or better and the quality will make your heart melt. The detail is stunning despite 18mp vs. 22mp on the 5D3. I like the prints from the 1DX much better than any camera I've ever owned. You won't be disappointed.


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## treyconnally (Oct 19, 2012)

bdunbar79 said:


> Get a 1DX. Seriously. I print all of my photos in sports to 8 x 10 or better and the quality will make your heart melt. The detail is stunning despite 18mp vs. 22mp on the 5D3. I like the prints from the 1DX much better than any camera I've ever owned. You won't be disappointed.



And after I sell EVERYTHING to get the 1Dx what lens would I use? I'm beginning to lean to the 5D MKiii based off of price, and selling my current 5D and 70-200mm


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## drjlo (Oct 19, 2012)

treyconnally said:


> bdunbar79 said:
> 
> 
> > Get a 1DX. Seriously. I print all of my photos in sports to 8 x 10 or better and the quality will make your heart melt. The detail is stunning despite 18mp vs. 22mp on the 5D3. I like the prints from the 1DX much better than any camera I've ever owned. You won't be disappointed.
> ...



First time I got my EOS-1vHS, the wow factor was tremendous with that sexy body and the shutter that just went OFF like a roadrunner. After a long while, now I use 5D III, which may not have as much wow factor, but after trying a grip, I actually prefer the 5D III body without the grip for the less weight and more portability. And if I really think sanely, 5D III does everything I need it to do. The small body/sensor differences among 5D III, 1DX, even Nikon D800, etc are simply not that earth-shattering when lighting/strobist and lenses make so much more impact. I'd rather spend the money on better lighting setups, triggers, and lenses..


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## vargyropoulos (Oct 19, 2012)

to the OP:

personally I use my film camera to help me break "bad habits" or otherwise using the "auto" features of the DSLR as a crutch and I must say it has helped me improve my skill set and continues to do so. However once you're in a professional setting where you have client deliverables, you need to use the tools that you're most comfortable with and this may or may not be the "cool new toy" that you recently got (or will get).

my only complaint against film is that there is no instant feedback (unless you do polaroid tests or stuff like that)... more than once I've picked up prints from the lab only to drop my jaw and say why did I miss that. with digital, you do have the risk of "chimping" every other shot, but then you can alter settings on the spot to help ensure you get the keepers.


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## skullyspice (Oct 20, 2012)

The 1VHS is the greatest achievement in 35mm film photography period. no other 35mm camera even comes close.


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