# Patent: Canon 50mm f/3.5 IS Macro for Full Frame Mirrorless



## Canon Rumors Guy (Dec 4, 2015)

```
A patent for a 50mm f/3.5 IS Macro lens for a full frame mirrorless camera has appeared.</p>
<p>Patent Publication No. 2015-215494 (Google Translated)</p>
<ul>
<li>Published 2015.12.3</li>
<li>Filing date 2014.5.12</li>
<li>Focal length 48.58</li>
<li>F-number 3.50</li>
<li>Half angle (in degrees) 24.01</li>
<li>Image height 21.64</li>
<li>Overall length of the lens 85.71</li>
<li>BF 27.79</li>
</ul>
<p>The machine translation shows EF mount, but I’m not sure if that’s an accurate translation. If anyone can translated this better than Google can, <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/contact-form/">please drop us a line</a>.</p>
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## mkabi (Dec 4, 2015)

Huh???

We all know that all patents don't go to production.

So... I'm thinking with the rumor that Nikon's Samsung NX Tech.
Acquisition, Canon marketing put this out there to bring/keep customers.


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## Random Orbits (Dec 4, 2015)

mkabi said:


> Huh???
> 
> We all know that all patents don't go to production.
> 
> ...



Except it was filed 1.5 years ago...


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## douglaurent (Dec 4, 2015)

If Canon was clever, they keep the form factor of their DSLRs and the EF mount, and come up with mirrorless concepts. Nobody needs new mounts and smaller sensors.


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## tyger11 (Dec 4, 2015)

douglaurent said:


> If Canon was clever, they keep the form factor of their DSLRs and the EF mount, and come up with mirrorless concepts. Nobody needs new mounts and smaller sensors.



There's always the idea of making a mirrorless camera that has a built-in focal reducer, thus keeping compatability with all their lenses, and making them all wider/faster at the same time.


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## eosuser1234 (Dec 4, 2015)

Does not mention anything about the EF mount by Canon. The original post in Japanese just was speculating if it will be an EF mount, with the thought that it would as Canon EF mount continues to go on strong within the cinema line.


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## privatebydesign (Dec 4, 2015)

eosuser1234 said:


> Does not mention anything about the EF mount by Canon. The original post in Japanese just was speculating if it will be an EF mount, with the thought that it would as Canon EF mount continues to go on strong within the cinema line.



It cannot be an EF or EF-S mount lens with a BF of 27.79mm. It could be EF-M, BF is normally measured from the rearmost lens of the design not the mount flange, so anything 16 ish mm and over (EF-M flange distance is 18mm) will be EF-M. EF requires a minimum of 42 ish mm on the 44mm flange distance.


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## 9VIII (Dec 4, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> eosuser1234 said:
> 
> 
> > Does not mention anything about the EF mount by Canon. The original post in Japanese just was speculating if it will be an EF mount, with the thought that it would as Canon EF mount continues to go on strong within the cinema line.
> ...



Without the mirror mechanism there's plenty of space inside the mount for recessed lens elements.
Canon does have the largest full frame mount by a wide margin.

They "might" want to move the electronic contacts, but full native EF compatibility would be the ideal for me, and I assume millions of other existing Canon users.


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## Maximilian (Dec 4, 2015)

Interesting! 

BF 27.79 is pointing towards mirrorless, so could be an EF-M macro as mentioned here http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=28243.msg556966#msg556966

Image height of 21.64 is delivering an image circle for FF.

Maybe the first hint, that Canon is already seriously pursuing mirrorless FF since the filing date is also one and a half year ago (2014.5.12, hope that I didn't get month and day wrong), whatever mount it'll get.
Maybe just a dead end patent... :-\


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## Antono Refa (Dec 4, 2015)

Canon is working on a FF mirrorless camera, and the first lens design ready to go out to the patent office is a 50mm f/3.5 macro lens?!


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## ajfotofilmagem (Dec 4, 2015)

It could be a compact camera design with integrated lens.

Something like the Sony RX1, but that truly fits in your pocket.


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## Wizardly (Dec 4, 2015)

https://goo.gl/DCXxJ7

There are 3 examples to this patent. None of them have an image height larger than 24mm. Example 3 is only 21.6 mm

On the other hand, example 1 is much more plausible. This looks more like an attempt at a 30mm lens for EF-M OR a lens to fit on a 1.5-inch type sensor. Back focus of 18.44 (EF-M is 18 mm). Focal length is 31mm (30 mm nominal). f/3.5 aperture. Image height is 13.66 mm (APS-C on Canon is 14.9 mm, G1X sensor is 14mm). Length is 55mm.


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## privatebydesign (Dec 4, 2015)

9VIII said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > eosuser1234 said:
> ...



That wasn't the point, the point was it can't be EF, the BF distance precludes it. I was pointing that fact out.


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## mdomask (Dec 4, 2015)

Random Orbits said:


> Except it was filed 1.5 years ago...



This is standard for patents. The date on which you file the patent application is often long before the patenting authority publishes the filed application.


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## StudentOfLight (Dec 4, 2015)

Wizardly said:


> https://goo.gl/DCXxJ7
> 
> There are 3 examples to this patent. None of them have an image height larger than 24mm. Example 3 is only 21.6 mm
> 
> On the other hand, example 1 is much more plausible. This looks more like an attempt at a 30mm lens for EF-M OR a lens to fit on a 1.5-inch type sensor. Back focus of 18.44 (EF-M is 18 mm). Focal length is 31mm (30 mm nominal). f/3.5 aperture. Image height is 13.66 mm (APS-C on Canon is 14.9 mm, G1X sensor is 14mm). Length is 55mm.


I'm not sure I follow. 21.6mm is full frame.


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## Mitch.Conner (Dec 4, 2015)

mdomask said:


> Random Orbits said:
> 
> 
> > Except it was filed 1.5 years ago...
> ...



Wait... you mean to tell me that you can't file a patent application, have it assigned to an art unit and patent examiner, have it reviewed, communicate between the patent drafter and the examiner, and eventually/hopefully have it published ALL IN THE SAME DAY!?!?

What has this world come to?


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## Proscribo (Dec 4, 2015)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> It could be a compact camera design with integrated lens.
> 
> Something like the Sony RX1, but that truly fits in your pocket.


Why the obsession with FF sensors, you'd get pretty much same performace out of MFT with 25mm/1.7 lens than what you'll get with FF and 50mm/3.5 lens for example.

E: for MILC a really small 50mm could maybe make sense.


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## ccapan (Dec 4, 2015)

It is of course the new 30 MP sensor for the 5Dm 8)


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## privatebydesign (Dec 4, 2015)

StudentOfLight said:


> Wizardly said:
> 
> 
> > https://goo.gl/DCXxJ7
> ...



No it isn't, 24mm is. 135 format is 36mm x 24mm.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 4, 2015)

mdomask said:


> Random Orbits said:
> 
> 
> > mkabi said:
> ...



Of course. The point was in response to the suggestion that this patent publication represents a response of some sort to the recent news of Nikon buying Samsung tech, which clearly it does not (or maybe Canon has some really prescient soothsayers, who knows?).


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 4, 2015)

The patent has three working examples. It is not tied to a particular lens type or design, the formulas can apply to any Canon lens type, be it video, FF, APS-C, or P&S.

The numbers in the example may not reveal the actual intended usage.




Example 1

Focal distance 31.01 
F number 3.50 
a half field angle (degree) -- 23.77 
Image height 13.66 
Whole length of the lens 54.98 
BF 18.44 


Example 2

Focal distance 21.77 
F number 3.50 
a half field angle (degree) -- 20.04 
Image height 7.94 
Whole length of the lens 39.45 
BF 14.25 


Example 3

Focal distance 48.58 
F number 3.50 
a half field angle (degree) -- 24.01 
Image height 21.64 
Whole length of the lens 85.71 
BF 27.79


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## that1guyy (Dec 5, 2015)

so yet another mount from canon? and they said sony had a lot of mounts.


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## TeT (Dec 5, 2015)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> It could be a compact camera design with integrated lens....



Shouldn't we be moving towards a compact lens with integrated camera by now...


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## Antono Refa (Dec 5, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> StudentOfLight said:
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> > Wizardly said:
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Image height, in this context, is the distance between the center of the sensor to it's corner.

sqrt(36^2+24^2)/2 = 21.633, therefore this is an FF lens.


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## privatebydesign (Dec 5, 2015)

Antono Refa said:


> privatebydesign said:
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> > StudentOfLight said:
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My apologies, I knew that once but lost it in the mists of time! But I believe I am correct in the BF comments, it can't be an EF lens, possibly EF-M, but not EF or EF-S.


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## Antono Refa (Dec 5, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> My apologies, I knew that once but lost it in the mists of time! But I believe I am correct in the BF comments, it can't be an EF lens, possibly EF-M, but not EF or EF-S.



Well, that's what the title of the thread says - FF lens with a flange distance typical of mirrorless cameras, e.g. EOS-M


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## privatebydesign (Dec 5, 2015)

Antono Refa said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > My apologies, I knew that once but lost it in the mists of time! But I believe I am correct in the BF comments, it can't be an EF lens, possibly EF-M, but not EF or EF-S.
> ...



And titles here have never been wrong inaccurate or misleading here, ever...............


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## Antono Refa (Dec 5, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> Antono Refa said:
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> > privatebydesign said:
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Nobody's perfect.


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## Wizardly (Dec 5, 2015)

Antono Refa said:


> privatebydesign said:
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> > StudentOfLight said:
> ...



Good catch. However, I'm still more convinced that example 1 is the most plausible. 13.41mm is the half-diagonal for the EOS M3 APS-C sensor, consistent with the 13.66 half-diagonal stated in that example for the flange distance that exists on the EF-M mount. Example 2 seems to be intended towards the 1-inch sensor size (not the 1.5 inch I had thought earlier). Example 3 could work on a 135 format (FE-mount) body with the rear element recessed into the lens by 1 cm.

Really these are just results to match half-diagonal (image heights) in existence. That a solution exists for the 135-format doesn't mean it will result in a new mount. Besides, a 135-format DSLM body could easily show up with an adaptor to existing lenses long before any lenses emerge (just like EF to FE rigs exist already).


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