# What's Next?



## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 19, 2011)

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<p><strong>That was fun!

</strong>The EOS 1D X caught a lot of people off guard, and shows a dynamic shift in Canon’s EOS product line. There are surely some reallyÃ‚Â exciting and more than evolutionaryÃ‚Â products in the pipeline from Canon.</p>
<p><strong>November 3, 2011 (No Rating)

</strong>I’m still pretty convinced that the November 3, 2011 announcement in Hollywood will be in regards to a video camera or two. One of them will NOT be the 5D Mark III.</p>
<p>The basic breakdown of what I’ve been told so far.</p>
<ul>
<li>Possibly 2 cameras</li>
<li>EF & PL Mount</li>
<li>Super35mm Sensor</li>
<li>One could be EOS branded</li>
<li>A 30-300 lens.</li>
<li>Possibly 3 lenses in total.</li>
</ul>
<p>I’m told whatever launches may not be a 4K camera, but will become a 4K camera down the line.</p>
<p><!--more-->No CR rating on any of this stuff. Partially due to ignorance and new sources passing on information.</p>
<p><strong>October 26, 2011

</strong>The PDN show is in New York City next week, and there is an event scheduled for October 26, 2011.</p>
<p>One thing that will be possibly introduced is the Canon Pro-1 printer. A 12 colour A3+ printer.</p>
<p>I do not expect any other EOS camera to be announced. The 1D X deserves the spotlight it’s going to get next week.</p>
<p><strong>Lenses (No Rating)

</strong>The always difficult to predict lens announcements. I think (not know) we’ll be seeing a lens or two announced within the next month. Whether it’s next week or not I don’t know.</p>
<p>Only 2 lenses have been mentioned as being “announced” soon.</p>
<ul>
<li><a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2011/04/ef-24-70-f2-8l-ii-patent-published/">EF 24-70 f/2.8L II</a> (I hate even mentioning this lens)</li>
<li><a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2011/02/canon-ef-200-400-f4l-is-announced/">EF 200-400 f/4L IS 1.4X</a></li>
</ul>
<p><strong>5D Mark III

</strong>Canon may have amalgamated the 1D line, however I think a split of the 5D line is a possibility. I have been told that has been discussed and put into practice with prototypes. I don’t expect any announcement of such a camera(s) until well into 2012. That could obviously change.</p>
<p><strong>1Ds Mark III Studio Replacement?

</strong>We were told <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2010/09/canon-nikon-flagships-in-2011/">ages ago</a> that the 1Ds Mark III replacement would be a massive departure. The dates haven’t come to fruition, but the big megapixel Nikon has, as well as the 1Ds being eaten up by the 1D X.</p>
<p>I’ll do a breakdown of the new 1D X shortly. I hope to head to NYC next week to check it out in person.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


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## Gothmoth (Oct 19, 2011)

Canon Rumors said:


> The dates havenâ€™t come to fruition, but the big megapixel Nikon has,



what do you mean by that?

i thought the D800 36 MP nikon is just a rumor.
a rumor like the 36 MP 1Ds MK3 replacement.


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## EYEONE (Oct 19, 2011)

Canon Rumors said:


> One of them will NOT be the 5D Mark III.</p>



But the other one will be?


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## thepancakeman (Oct 19, 2011)

EYEONE said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > One of them will NOT be the 5D Mark III.</p>
> ...



Dang, you beat me to it! ;D


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## cbphoto (Oct 19, 2011)

I wish the lens announcements were for a new 45mm TS-E and 90mm TS-E. I've tried the Schneider 50mm TS and it blows the doors off Canon's 45mm.


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## Shnookums (Oct 19, 2011)

I don't think a high mega-pixel 1 series camera will come back. Canon decided they wanted to go with only one flagship model and they will probably stick to it for a little while. What I would have liked to see is this new flagship to be high mp at slow speed and lower mp at high speed. But, maybe Canon doesn't have the technology to to this yet.

For the future I don't see many change in the higher end cameras

- The 5DIII or 3D will be a high mp monster but don't expect speed. It might get the 45 point AF. Should be priced in the 4k range
- If the 3D happens, the 5DIII will remain at its current price and be the entry FF model. With the 7D AF. 2800$
- The 7DII will continue as is. APS-C, high speed, for wildlife and sport.

I expect all of these camera to get better weather resistance, especially the 7DII since it would be used outside by sport, wildlife or birder...

There you have it for the XD familly. 3 or 4 cameras, but only one flagship, the 1Dx


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## dstppy (Oct 19, 2011)

thepancakeman said:


> EYEONE said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...



Sick minds think alike . . . I was going there too :

Hrm, the price of the EF 24-70 f/2.8L has been steadily climbing over the years, I wonder what a II would go for if released . . . I'm still hoping for a new kit lens on the 5DmkIII. 

I personally hope they hold off announcing the 5D until they can stock it within a month . . . these long drawn out releases are worse than not knowing.


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## Justin (Oct 19, 2011)

Indeed, what does this mean?



Gothmoth said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > The dates havenâ€™t come to fruition, but the big megapixel Nikon has,
> ...


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## Justin (Oct 19, 2011)

Shnookums said:


> For the future I don't see many change in the higher end cameras
> 
> - The 5DIII or 3D will be a high mp monster but don't expect speed. It might get the 45 point AF. Should be priced in the 4k range
> - If the 3D happens, the 5DIII will remain at its current price and be the entry FF model. With the 7D AF. 2800$
> - The 7DII will continue as is. APS-C, high speed, for wildlife and sport.



Where is it written, or even intimated in the tea leaves that the 5D successor has to be a mega pixel monster? If anything the rejiggered flagship points to Canon possibly reusing the same sesnor in a 5D successor? 

As for lenses: I wish he hadn't said 24-70 either. Mostly becasue the rumors of late have hinted at no IS implementation which is a stinking shame for video use and improving the hand-holdability of the lens in low light. I guess that's what the 2-stop improvement in high iso nose of the 1Dx is for, but what about the rest of us who won't be using that cam?


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## Justin (Oct 19, 2011)

Canon Rumors said:


> We were toldages ago that the 1Ds Mark III replacement would be a massive departure. The dates havenâ€™t come to fruition, but the big megapixel Nikon has, as well as the 1Ds being eaten up by the 1D X.



The 1Dx could easily be construed as a massive departure from the 1Ds3 line when you consider everyone expected a commensurate MP increase, i.e. 1Ds2->1Ds3. What's with the speculation of another 1Ds3 replacement? It was announced yesterday, no?


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## briansquibb (Oct 19, 2011)

Perhaps they will make the 5DIII with the same sensor, 1 cpu and 18mp as a cutdown 1DX (like 1DS to 5DII).

Howabout the long rumoured 3D with 36MP as an upgraded 5DIII? 5fps, small (5D sized) body, 1DX AF etc.

Canon have to take the market off Nikon - so that is:

D300S -> 7DII with the 1DX AF and shutter
D700 -> 5DIII
D3 -> 1DX
D3X -) 3D


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## Shnookums (Oct 19, 2011)

Justin said:


> Shnookums said:
> 
> 
> > For the future I don't see many change in the higher end cameras
> ...



Because there is still need for a high mega pixel camera. Canon decided most pro body owner did not need high mega pixel in the 1 series body format but people using 5Ds in studios need resolution and not speed. So my guess is that we will see higher resolution cameras but not in the 1D format.

Still... I expect the 1DxII to be 24+ mp...


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## gene_can_sing (Oct 19, 2011)

Regarding November 3rd, I'm really keeping my fingers crossed for some type of EOS Full Frame video / still hybrid camera, like a better 5D2, probably with lower megapixels.

The 1DX was a bit disappointing from a video perspective as it was pretty incremental. But then again the 1DX belongs to the Photogs. All it needed was a better codec and 1080p 60fps, which even point and shoot cameras can now do, and I would have been satisfied.

The 5D2 shows that's there's a serious market for a full frame video camera. Just have it do 4:2:2 and have 60fps 1080p. You can leave the high speed overcranking for the dedicated video cameras.

A hybrid would be nice because I could use it for video as well as photo time-lapses which is obviously much better on a DSLR than a video camera.

This seems to be a good Tier Full frame product level

1) 6D or whatever it's called. 12 mp photo/video hybrid. Entry level with better video 4:2:2 1080 / 60. Leave the serious overcranking and 4:4:4 for the video cameras. That way no toes are stepped on.
2) 1DX. The high performance camera at 18 mp
3) 5D3 with higher mp for those who need it. Not as high performing as the 1Dx, but with more mp.

None of those cameras really step on each others toes and serve a different purpose, which will still cause people to buy multiple cameras.


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## Haydn1971 (Oct 19, 2011)

I'm now expecting there to be three full frame body's, the 1Dx has brought us the 18mpx sensor, which will go into another lower priced body, which to my mind will be a entry level full frame in a 7D/5D sized body, with a low framerate and mid range AF, perhaps with a dynamic range approaching the 1Dx and priced at just above 7D level, which would point to a 6D line. This leaves space for the 5DIII to intro a high MPx sensor in the 35-40MPx range, again with mid range AF, great dynamic range but poor frame rates.

Its clear the 1Dx is here for a good reason, that's the sports in 2012, with Euro 2012 in June/July and the Summer Olymipics in July/August. The lenses that have been launched in the last couple of years have led to these sporting events. Where does that leave the 5DIII ? Well currently nowhere, there isn't a rush to get it out, but there is a lovely new 18MPx sensor all ready to pop into a new model, that model could well be out sooner than the 1Dx, so my feeling is a 6D in the winter season is a great possibility, to get the sensor in the field early, iron out any early fab issues and make sure that Canon doesn't get high end event egg on its face. That's what I'd be doing at least ;-)


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## traveller (Oct 19, 2011)

Stop me if I'm sounding really cynical here, but Canon have stated that the new 1DX replaces both the 1D Mk4 and 1Ds Mk3. Well it basically does, the resolution differences are negligable and every other specification appears to be an upgrade, so no more need for seperate 1-series bodies... Except there still seems to be demand for a full size high resolution DSLR; how much extra R&D costs would it take to put a (for example) 36MP sensor in a 1DX body and call it a 1DY (with perhaps 6fps). That way you've suckered a whole load of people into buying the 1DX as a 1Ds Mk3 replacement and can also sell them a 1DY next year; voila, double the sales. If they complain that the 1DX was meant to replace both the 1D and 1Ds series, Canon simply states "oh, but it did; this is an entirely new camera series". 

Like I said, stop me if I'm sounding too cynical...


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## Picsfor (Oct 19, 2011)

let me explain to you then - pop on over to Nikon Rumours - quite a fun site which shows Nikon owners do have a sense of humour.

In much the same way the 1Dx was prophecised to every ones mirth and disgust, a 36mp Nikon (thought to be the D800)is due for release in the next week or two.

It is this camera that is expected to take the 5D2's crown for best big mp camera at a mid range price. The thing is - no one can get any info on it, except it will be released - what CR guy would assign a CR3 status.

But from what i'm hearing off Nikon people - they do not want such a heavily loaded mp sensor. I think most are happy with the 18-20 that Canon's are currently operating at, preferring to have better noise & DR, focusing and frame rate... :-\


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## Justin (Oct 19, 2011)

Shnookums said:


> Justin said:
> 
> 
> > Shnookums said:
> ...


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## Gothmoth (Oct 19, 2011)

is the factory that will produce the D800 affected by the flood?
i read the D800 will maybe delayed 1-2 month.

sorry for OT. 
but im not sure how/if that could affect canons strategy of announcements.


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## Justin (Oct 19, 2011)

Picsfor said:


> let me explain to you then - pop on over to Nikon Rumours - quite a fun site which shows Nikon owners do have a sense of humour.
> 
> In much the same way the 1Dx was prophecised to every ones mirth and disgust, a 36mp Nikon (thought to be the D800)is due for release in the next week or two.
> 
> ...



The whole thing is pure comedy, becasue as I've been saying Nikon and Canon are switching. All the Nikon shooters are used to low MP sensors. All the Canon users are used to high MP sensors. And the two companies are going in opposite directions.


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## Gothmoth (Oct 19, 2011)

Justin said:


> The whole thing is pure comedy, becasue as I've been saying Nikon and Canon are switching. All the Nikon shooters are used to low MP sensors. All the Canon users are used to high MP sensors. And the two companies are going in opposite directions.




maybe an amalgamation of user experience?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Oct 19, 2011)

Gothmoth said:


> is the factory that will produce the D800 affected by the flood?
> i read the D800 will maybe delayed 1-2 month.
> 
> sorry for OT.
> but im not sure how/if that could affect canons strategy of announcements.



Rumored announcement for D800 may be postphoned.

http://nikonrumors.com/2011/10/17/chasseur-dimages-two-big-major-nikon-announcements-expected-in-the-coming-weeks-have-been-postponed.aspx/

The D700 was made in Japan, but components likely come from Thailand, so the flood there is going to be a show stopper. Nikon made all the super precision lens mounting rings in Japan, but added offshore production when the earthquake shut down production in Japan and thus caused Thailand to run out of one critical part. Now, it could be the other way around.

Many camera components are machined, ground, or molded to tolerances so tight that they are very difficult to even measure, and manufacturers don't want the headaches expense of multiple sources. Sometimes that bites you.


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## Meh (Oct 19, 2011)

Justin said:


> The whole thing is pure comedy, becasue as I've been saying Nikon and Canon are switching. All the Nikon shooters are used to low MP sensors. All the Canon users are used to high MP sensors. And the two companies are going in opposite directions.



Unless both Canon and Nikon have each realized that there is a need, and more importantly a market, for both high resolution sensors and lower resolution sensors (along with the inherent trade offs of each) and will now try to have both types in their respective lineups?

It would be interesting to know what conversations happened in the engineering and marketing departments at each of Canon and Nikon as recently as 5-6 years ago. You can almost imagine both companies with a concept of an ideal digital sensor (high res, low-noise, high DR, etc.) that technology couldn't deliver and laying out a road map of what properties to focus on first with the intent of improving over time towards the ideal. Canon went with working on increasing resolution and Nikon went the other way. Each marketed their choice as "better" and "more important" but knowing it's really just a matter of how an image would be used that defined what mattered most.


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## HurtinMinorKey (Oct 19, 2011)

gene_can_sing said:


> Regarding November 3rd, I'm really keeping my fingers crossed for some type of EOS Full Frame video / still hybrid camera, like a better 5D2, probably with lower megapixels.
> 
> The 1DX was a bit disappointing from a video perspective as it was pretty incremental. But then again the 1DX belongs to the Photogs. All it needed was a better codec and 1080p 60fps, which even point and shoot cameras can now do, and I would have been satisfied.
> 
> ...



I think we'll see two video cams on nov third. The lower end one will prob be [email protected] 60fps 4:2:2, compatible with all the EF lenses.


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## shenshaw (Oct 19, 2011)

I have been waiting to transition into DSLR filmmaking. My holding out for the 5DmkIII is over... I will get the 7D and some better glass while I wait for mkIII. Then sell back the 7D.


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## Canon 14-24 (Oct 19, 2011)

Common 14-24 lens!


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## Edwin Herdman (Oct 19, 2011)

Aside from Craig's observation that if you release two cameras, one will not be a 5D Mark III, I also agree that the collapsing of the 1D / 1Ds lines into one doesn't mean that there won't be a high megapixel camera for studio use in a cheaper line, possibly with a smaller body. This is a conclusion I had come to earlier and I think that despite the apparent move by Canon into the "let's push small pixels" camp, we've only seen it for one camera.

I think this may be a good move on Canon's part. While many people will look askance at any 1D camera that has fewer megapixels than a 5D series body, the call for 1D series bodies with high megapixel counts (above 18) seems to be somewhat less than many expected, especially since there isn't really much of a gap between 18 and 21 (which is about where the 1Ds Mark III sits). The sort of situations the 1D X seems best suited for - sports and photojournalism - don't require more than 18 megapixels, really; at least not for most photographers. There's enough other features in the 1D X to differentiate it from other camera lines - and hopefully the 61-point AF sensor means that we can expect better AF sensors to start appearing in other lines, as well. And even if that weren't the case, if they could point to IQ advantages in the 1D X over another full-frame camera with more megapixels (though I expect that sheer shooting speed will be the primary advantage), that's another area where the camera lines will be naturally differentiated.

Personally, I've felt that 20 megapixels is something of a psychological hurdle, somewhat like 100 of an item seems like more than 99 of an item.


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## EYEONE (Oct 19, 2011)

Canon 14-24 said:


> Common 14-24 lens!



+1. I think we're the biggest fans of this idea.


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## Blaze (Oct 19, 2011)

EYEONE said:


> Canon 14-24 said:
> 
> 
> > Common 14-24 lens!
> ...



I must be missing something. The 14-24 is a common lens?
Nikon makes one, but does anyone else?


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## gene_can_sing (Oct 19, 2011)

shenshaw said:


> I have been waiting to transition into DSLR filmmaking. My holding out for the 5DmkIII is over... I will get the 7D and some better glass while I wait for mkIII. Then sell back the 7D.



At least wait until Nov 3rd. It's only 2 weeks away. Trust me as someone who has shot a lot of DSLR video the last few years. The moire and alias and soft video image can drive you crazy. It was good when it came out 3 years ago, but now compared to Sony and Panasonic, it's very dated.

Just give it 2 weeks before you buy. I think something good will come.


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## Meh (Oct 19, 2011)

Blaze said:


> EYEONE said:
> 
> 
> > Canon 14-24 said:
> ...



I think it was mean to say "come on 14-24 lens" ?


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## Meh (Oct 19, 2011)

gene_can_sing said:


> shenshaw said:
> 
> 
> > I have been waiting to transition into DSLR filmmaking. My holding out for the 5DmkIII is over... I will get the 7D and some better glass while I wait for mkIII. Then sell back the 7D.
> ...



It may not change your mind about DSLR film making, since the alternatives are prohibitively expensive, but check out the 3-part series "The Great Camera Shootout 2011" at www.zacuto.com

The third in the series shows the motion artifacts that DSLRs are prone to due to the rolling shutter of CMOS sensors. It will be interesting to see if what Canon announces on Nov 3rd will address this issue and if they announce something affordable for indie film makers or only cameras to compete with RED.


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## intown (Oct 19, 2011)

> Hrm, the price of the EF 24-70 f/2.8L has been steadily climbing over the years, I wonder what a II would go for if released .



I have been considering this lens and also noticed that the price has been rising. What is the reason for this?

What would be the advantage to leaving IS (image stabilization) off?


The ideal announcements for me in the next couple of weeks would be new entry level full frame camera that has nice video features and the announcement of the EF 24-70 f/2.8....

Anticipation -- Better than the deed or the afterthought.


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## unfocused (Oct 19, 2011)

Shnookums said:


> For the future I don't see many change in the higher end cameras
> 
> - The 5DIII or 3D will be a high mp monster but don't expect speed. It might get the 45 point AF. Should be priced in the 4k range
> - If the 3D happens, the 5DIII will remain at its current price and be the entry FF model. With the 7D AF. 2800$
> ...



Not a bad series of predictions. I also expect that the 5D successor will have a different, higher mp sensor. It seems as though the sensor is the real differentiating factor in the 1DX and I don't see Canon devaluing the line by using the sensor in other bodies â€“ at least not in the near term. 

Makes more sense to me to offer a model with a high mp sensor for those who need the resolution. 

I do think we will see a 7D or similar moving up the scale into the pro-level with weathersealing, etc. Perhaps even a one-piece model with a built in battery pack like the 1D series. They may end up splitting the 7D into two lines, an enthusiast model and a pro model for sports and wildlife photographers who want the extra reach they are losing with the end of the APS-H sensor. I really hope that the next generation 7D sensor also follows the philosophy of maintaining similar megapixel count and concentrates on improving dynamic range and ISO sensitivity (I can dream can't I?)

Contrary to what many on this forum wish for, I don't think we will see an under $2,000 full frame model. I'm not even sure it's possible to produce a full frame body at that price point. 

Finally, I found Canon's comments about up-sampling very interesting. Is this just hype to rationalize the reduction in resolution or have they really done something that will make up-sampling a realistic alternative? We'll have to wait and see, but it's entirely possible that their software engineers (or possibly in conjunction with Adobe) are working on or have developed new algorithms to make up-sampling a more viable alternative.

I know next to nothing about software, but it sure seems to me that features like "content aware fill" and focus sharpening (as teased at Adobe Max) are a lot more complex and difficult than up-sampling an image.


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## Rocky (Oct 19, 2011)

unfocused said:


> Contrary to what many on this forum wish for, I don't think we will see an under $2,000 full frame model. I'm not even sure it's possible to produce a full frame body at that price point.



Canon can do a $2000 FF DSLR if they want to. Just look at the price of 7D. The difference in FF sensor and APS-C is about $200. Throw in another $200 for larger body, penta prism etc. You have your $2000 FF. If you start with 60D, you can have a $1500 FF easily. However, Canon will do neither one of the above hyperthetical model. Canon wants to Keep FF as a more expensive model (read it as higher profit).


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## Justin (Oct 19, 2011)

intown said:


> > Hrm, the price of the EF 24-70 f/2.8L has been steadily climbing over the years, I wonder what a II would go for if released .
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The price of nearly all the current EF and EF-S lenses has been rising, excpet for a few more recently released lenses. Retailers tend to release at full msrp then back down a good 10%. Give them a few years though, becasue they start to creep rigth back up, especially when Canon raises their MSRPs, which them seem to do almost once a year.


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## Gene (Oct 19, 2011)

Rocky said:


> Canon can do a $2000 FF DSLR if they want to. Just look at the price of 7D. The difference in FF sensor and APS-C is about $200. Throw in another $200 for larger body, penta prism etc. You have your $2000 FF. If you start with 60D, you can have a $1500 FF easily. However, Canon will do neither one of the above hyperthetical model. Canon wants to Keep FF as a more expensive model (read it as higher profit).



If anything that's an argument for why it can't be done. The problem is you're forgetting about margins; even if Canon were willing to accept a lower margin % than the 7D on a higher-end camera (not likely, but for the sake of argument,) the retailers would not. You really have to multiply the component price delta by at least 2 and more like 3 or 4 to get the final retail price impact.


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## gene_can_sing (Oct 19, 2011)

If they came out with the hypothetical 6D as a lower MP video oriented DSLR, I would pay a premium for that if it had 4:2:2 and 1080p 60. I would gladly fork out $3 to $3.5 K for something like that without hesitation.

It would be nice to have a sub $2K full frame, but I would gladly pay much more for useful, worthwhile upgrades.


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## ianhar (Oct 19, 2011)

I see the 200-400 is quite possible since the olympic is nxt year. With the 1.4 extender it should cover more than asph could cover


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## macfly (Oct 19, 2011)

1Ds Mark III Studio Replacement?

Checked back in to see if there was any Canon news, and seeing that is seriously music to my ears as I've just discovered that the factory in Thailand that makes the Sony/Nikon chips has been flooded out, and production of the upcoming 36MP cameras has been indefinately postponed!

I just sent all my lenses and body off to CPS for a full service and overhaul as it looks like I'm stuck with my trusty Mklll for a while longer, but I cancelled my long standing order for what turned out to be the 1Dx, a camera that was obviously not made with me in mind. If Canon can really get a high MP 100iso high quality monster out before Sony/Nikon recover from this second disaster then I'll be happy to stay with Canon, but either way I know my current gear will easily last another year.


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## wopbv4 (Oct 19, 2011)

Hi,

I thought that the 200-400 1.4X was a reality?

see

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-200-400mm-f-4-L-IS-USM-Extender-1.4x-Lens-Review.aspx

I am saving for the $$$$$ that it will cost

Hope this helps

Ben


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## unfocused (Oct 20, 2011)

Rocky said:


> Canon can do a $2000 FF DSLR if they want to. Just look at the price of 7D. The difference in FF sensor and APS-C is about $200.



That's the first time I've seen that figure. Can you document it?


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## x-vision (Oct 20, 2011)

unfocused said:


> I also expect that the 5D successor will have a different, higher mp sensor. It seems as though the sensor is the real differentiating factor in the 1DX and I don't see Canon devaluing the line by using the sensor in other bodies â€“ at least not in the near term.



My thinking exactly.



> They may end up splitting the 7D into two lines, an enthusiast model and a pro model for sports and wildlife photographers who want the extra reach they are losing with the end of the APS-H sensor.



Canon already split the former xxD line into the 7D and the 60D. Will they further split the 7D?
It seems to me that the 60D successor will need to be "re-imagined" again to be more competitive. 
Can't tell how this will affect the 7DII. 



> Contrary to what many on this forum wish for, I don't think we will see an under $2,000 full frame model. I'm not even sure it's possible to produce a full frame body at that price point.



Agree again. That would only devalue FF as a premium offering. 
The 5DII is "affordable" enough already and I'm hoping that the 5DIII will stay at the same price point.


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## Doodah (Oct 20, 2011)

wopbv4 said:


> I thought that the 200-400 1.4X was a reality?



Yes, I am confused too. It's a lens that was announced some time ago, just that the release date is delayed (much like what happened with the 8-15 fisheye).

What I want to see: 24-70 f/2.8L with better optics and 14-24 f/2.8L

What I personally wish to have: FF with pentamirror or mirrorless. Just want to have a cheap, low weight Rebel type FF camera.  That's just me.


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## Cetalis (Oct 20, 2011)

Don't wanna be too pessimistic, but a high res FF probably isn't happening for a while, if any at all; the 1DX is their flagship and their marketing constantly tells us that the lower MP is better. I highly doubt they'd contradict themselves that fast. Also, maintaining the infrastructure to make different sensors seems to be quite a pain if they insist on having 4 APS-Cs use the same sensor. My guess is that the 5Dmk3 will borrow the 1DX sensor and come out after the sensor production stabilizes, and late enough to not cannibalize 1DX sales.

The 7Dmk2 is also overdue and so far they've thrown out a new xxxD every year, and the current APS-C lineup doesnt match their new low MP strategy; this will drive their marketing department crazy. I'd expect a new APS-C coming out before any other FF so they don't cut out of each others' sales, while making it seem like they're refreshing everything.

I'm guessing that new lenses will be coming out first since they just announced a camera, but it's just a guess.


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## Meh (Oct 20, 2011)

Doodah said:


> wopbv4 said:
> 
> 
> > I thought that the 200-400 1.4X was a reality?
> ...



I believe the 200-400 was announced to be "in development" and as yet not an officially announced product.


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## Rocky (Oct 20, 2011)

unfocused said:


> Rocky said:
> 
> 
> > Canon can do a $2000 FF DSLR if they want to. Just look at the price of 7D. The difference in FF sensor and APS-C is about $200.
> ...


 I read couple articles in the web. I was trying to find it for you. Unfortunately, I cannot find them. I am going to explain why I agree with their number based on my knowlege from wafer fab and cost of CMOS wafer. For 8 in wafer, the cost of a processed wafer is about $1000, throw in the micro lenses and AA fiter for extra $300 (my guestimate) So each wafer is $1300. My estimate is that there may be only 75 sites for the 8 inch wafer for APS-C sensor. Let us assume the yield for APS-C is 75 %, then we will have 56 sensor per wafer, $1300 per wafer, that will be $23 per sensor. There are 24 FF sensor site for 8 in wafer. Assuming the yield for FF is 25% (1/3 of the yield of APS-C, being pressimistic ). then each wafer will yield 6 FF sensor. that will be $210 per sensor.
So the difference between FF and APS-C is $193. I said about $200 is just a rough number in case my guestimate on the micro lens and AA filter is wrong. IF Canon have moved the sensor production to 12 in (300mm) wafer, the difference is even smaller. However, Canon white paper mention that there are 200 site of APS-C sensor in a 8 in wafer. That is totally wrong. Anybody can prove it by drawing it out on a peice of paper.


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## scokar (Oct 20, 2011)

Rocky said:


> Canon can do a $2000 FF DSLR if they want to
> [....]



Canon is already SELLING a sub-$2000 FF DSLR. The 5D Mark II is available NEW for CAD$1999:

http://www.photoprice.ca/product/02699/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-II-price.html


Future Shop sold a few @ 1850, I do not recall the details, check red flag deals forums for scanned invoices.


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## adhocphotographer (Oct 20, 2011)

Cetalis said:


> The 7Dmk2 is also overdue and so far they've thrown out a new xxxD every year, and the current APS-C lineup doesnt match their new low MP strategy; this will drive their marketing department crazy. I'd expect a new APS-C coming out before any other FF so they don't cut out of each others' sales, while making it seem like they're refreshing everything.



I agree... with all the cropped bodies having the same sensor, it seems crazy to me for them to announce a xxxD (as seems to be the annual trend, although that might change), before a 70D or 7Dmkii. I would guess a lot of new bodies to stabalise the whole lineup in the next 12-18 months!


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## Woody (Oct 20, 2011)

I feel it is conceivable for Canon to announce an xxxD body before the 70D and 7D2. For certain technologies, Canon is sometimes willing to implement them in a lower end body first: e.g., electronic axis in 7D/60D, transmissive LCD in 7D viewfinder, Digic V in compact cameras etc.

But we'll know in a few months time. Can't wait... this is an exciting time in Canon... wonder how Canon will respond (if they bother) to mirrorless cameras...


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## necator (Oct 20, 2011)

Why should the 7D be overdue? 
The xD-Lines normally have a updatecycle of about 3 years.
The 7D is out --- hmm, about 2 years? So, my wild guess would be: wait at least one more year. 

Yes, the lower lines will overtake the 7D sensor-wise. But that happens all the time. The xxD line is constantly overtaken by the xxxD line, still the useability of the xxD line is better than that of the xxxD.


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## Isaac (Oct 20, 2011)

*I don't think the 5D3 will be split into two different models. *

Splitting it up *increases the risk* of both models where consumers may not be satisfied with both and even if they are satisfied with one of the models, there can be a big loss financially on the second if it doesn't satisfy the market. It also *creates confusion in market*, which model would be suitable. Eg. Someone who primarily wants photo use but also needs good video usage, which one would they buy if the 5D series is split up.

Canon make their money on a model that repeatedly gets purchased time and time again over its life span. Eg. 5D2 has been one of the best selling cameras of all time. Canon have had this camera on the production line time and time again.

I think *Canon should make their necessary changes* such as *MP increase, ST-E2 transmitter, AF focus points, Digic **5+, 3.2" clear view II screen, increased weather sealing etc. *

*With these changes, the 5D3 will sell itself.*


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## canonononon (Oct 24, 2011)

hey all, new to the forum. wrong place for intros but hello!

i am pretty sure that there is going to be a 5d or 3d announced pretty soon.

might not be one of those exactly but i would be very, very surprised it if was not an EOS camera

either way will be interesting!!


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## moreorless (Oct 24, 2011)

Isaac said:


> *I don't think the 5D3 will be split into two different models. *
> 
> Splitting it up *increases the risk* of both models where consumers may not be satisfied with both and even if they are satisfied with one of the models, there can be a big loss financially on the second if it doesn't satisfy the market. It also *creates confusion in market*, which model would be suitable. Eg. Someone who primarily wants photo use but also needs good video usage, which one would they buy if the 5D series is split up.
> 
> ...



The problem is though your potentially looking at a much more expensive camera with those changes, ok for the higher end of the market such as former 1Ds users but it wouldnt cater to the market the 5D mk2 selling at around $2000 has tapped into.

Spilting lines based on features might not be ideal but if Canon have say a high MP 3D with those specs in the $3500 range and a lower end 5D mk3 with say the 18 MP sensor and maybe improved AF for around $2000 then they potentially tap into both those markets. They could also open up a market for users upgrading though the lines which I'd guess at the moment is largely confined to people buying used 5D mk1's first.



> I agree... with all the cropped bodies having the same sensor, it seems crazy to me for them to announce a xxxD (as seems to be the annual trend, although that might change), before a 70D or 7Dmkii. I would guess a lot of new bodies to stabalise the whole lineup in the next 12-18 months!



One possible direction they could take is introducing the new processor into the D650 next spring while keeping everything else the same then market it on high FPS.


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