# learning bike shoot



## bearbooth (Aug 19, 2012)

Hi again. I am planning to go malaysian Motogp in Oct so I figure I would go out and practise first on my 24-105 before I dive in and buy a 70-200 f4.

BUT, most of my shots came out blur AGAIN.
I was trying to 'pan' a little. exif should be available

any and all comments and suggestions welcome


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## Ryan708 (Aug 19, 2012)

What focus mode were you using? If using single-shot AF with an object moving that fast toward you by the time you hit the shutter he will be out of your focal plane. There is no motion blur on the front wheel's spokes, SO the shutter speed should be enough at 250. Could try bumping the iso to 800 and knocking the f-stop down a stop, see if the increased DOF helps. Hope you figure it out!


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## risc32 (Aug 19, 2012)

i'm not at my "real" computer so i don't even know how to look at exif data with this thing. Are you using the servo focusing mode? what camera body was this shot with? mostly the thing that i see is that nothing is really in great focus. perhaps from your panning? looking at the shot i wouldn't have thought that there was much panning needed. he's not really moving across the frame or anything. i don't have a 24-105f4IS, does it normally handle panning okay? i bet it does, just wondering.
also, can you take me with you to the race. one of the last with Rossi on the lame duck


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## bearbooth (Aug 19, 2012)

AI Servo with multiple shots on 5d3, 
24-105 f4, TV mode. I selected 1/250 speed at ISO 400, and aperture defaulted to f4.5. 

my panning was probably crap


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## robbymack (Aug 19, 2012)

that looks like a pretty low speed tight corner the rider is heading into. 1/250 was probably too fast. Focus also looks off, but that could have been your attempt to pan.


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## Quasimodo (Aug 19, 2012)

I have shot a lot of bikes this summer. I am by no means an expert, but I normally shoot in AV, AI Servo, and use the AF-ON to track and the shutter button to take the picture. I use Shutter priority when I am attempting to get real panning blur, but this is hard as they are passing me in more than 200 km/h. This picture was taken on Thursday using a borrowed 1DX and the Canon 24-70 F2.8L II. 

If you have the chance (and get permission from the ones running the track, try to get a good spot on the track, in a curve where you both have them leaning over with the knee down, also where you can catch them speeding away.


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## Menace (Aug 19, 2012)

Quasimodo said:


> I have shot a lot of bikes this summer. I am by no means an expert, but I normally shoot in AV, AI Servo, and use the AF-ON to track and the shutter button to take the picture. I use Shutter priority when I am attempting to get real panning blur, but this is hard as they are passing me in more than 200 km/h. This picture was taken on Thursday using a borrowed 1DX and the Canon 24-70 F2.8L II.
> 
> If you have the chance (and get permission from the ones running the track, try to get a good spot on the track, in a curve where you both have them leaning over with the knee down, also where you can catch them speeding away.



Love the sparks, well done.


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## Quasimodo (Aug 19, 2012)

Menace said:


> Quasimodo said:
> 
> 
> > I have shot a lot of bikes this summer. I am by no means an expert, but I normally shoot in AV, AI Servo, and use the AF-ON to track and the shutter button to take the picture. I use Shutter priority when I am attempting to get real panning blur, but this is hard as they are passing me in more than 200 km/h. This picture was taken on Thursday using a borrowed 1DX and the Canon 24-70 F2.8L II.
> ...



Thank you  I think they use titanium cups on their knees to acheive the effect


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## risc32 (Aug 19, 2012)

now that i'm on my usual computer i can see things a bit better. I don't have any exp with that lens, is that level of IQ normal at the long end of that zoom? it's just that it really would seem to me that 1/250 should be enough to freeze the action, yet nothing looks all that great. isn't not quite apples to apples but from my past exp with panning shots i had to get the shutter speed well below 1/250(dirt bikes at a much slower clip, but at a MUCH closer range) more like 1/50 or slower usually to get a good bit of movement. but there are many variables.


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## bearbooth (Aug 21, 2012)

70-200 F4 IS vs 70-200 F2.8 non-IS?

prices in Hong Kong is about similar, what would you guys suggest?


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## Quasimodo (Aug 21, 2012)

bearbooth said:


> 70-200 F4 IS vs 70-200 F2.8 non-IS?
> 
> prices in Hong Kong is about similar, what would you guys suggest?



I have honestly to say that I don't know from personal experience, since I have the F2.8L IS II, but the reviews of the 70-200 F4.0 is getting an excellent review at photozone.de and the the-digital-picture.com


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## KingMotorpsort (Aug 21, 2012)

Hi
I shoot a lot of motorcycles (and race cars) I primarily shoot with 7D and a 7-200 f4 with a 1.2x converter. 

I shoot continuous focus with my a focus point selected to that it will line up with the front of the bike (or car). 

I mostly in Tv because it is more important to control shutter speed than aperture value. The key to getting a great panning shot is slowing the shutter speed as slow as possible. This is dependent upon how stable you are when panning. At first you are going to need a faster shutter speed say 125th but with practice you can get down to a 60th. This is obviously dependent on how fast the motorcycle is going. The faster the bike the faster the shutter speed. 

The second key is to use high speed continuous shutter trigger. This way when you fire of a burst of four or five shots you will get one in focus. When you get good at panning so the bike stays in the same relative position in the view finder, you will be able to pick off a single shot. 

I have way too many examples of panning shots so I will just give you the link to my site and you can see as many examples as you like. The EXIF data should be visible on most photos.

www.KingMotorsportPhotography.com

Let me know if you have specific questions.

JK


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## bearbooth (Aug 22, 2012)

most of you guys handhold to pan or take sports shots or do u use monopod for more stability?


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## Studio1930 (Aug 22, 2012)

bearbooth said:


> most of you guys handhold to pan or take sports shots or do u use monopod for more stability?



I use a monopod with sports shots. I pan with a high shutter speed so as to not blur the background since my clients want to see it for dog sports but I use a very narrow 200 f/2.0 lens to knock it out of focus. For motor sports I would slow the shutter down to allow the panning to blur it when desired.

1DX with 200 f/2.0 - straight out of camera - no editing - shot jpg (just stamped):


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## Mr Simpleton (Aug 22, 2012)

Darrin, 
nice agility shots.... when you use the 200/2 and monopod do you still have the IS enabled??

I find the startup time for the gyros can cause blurry pictures if I try to shoot to quickly...


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## pwalderh (Aug 22, 2012)

Panning is all about practice try to shoot passing cars or go to a racetrack just to practice - select AI servo and TV and start at 1/250 and work your way down. This shot done with a 300mm handheld at 1/40 - Good luck


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## Studio1930 (Aug 22, 2012)

Mr Simpleton said:


> Darrin,
> nice agility shots.... when you use the 200/2 and monopod do you still have the IS enabled??
> 
> I find the startup time for the gyros can cause blurry pictures if I try to shoot to quickly...



Thanks. I am testing between using IS mode 2 and no IS. So far I see no difference so I think I'll leave it on. With my 1D4 I have to make sure I track early but with the new 1DX I have been able to shoot quick, instant, stab at the trigger shots and get perfectly sharp images. The 1DX really has changed things. The 200 f/2 must be stabilizing quickly since I have not noticed any issues although I really do try to track early (2 seconds early) before shooting to allow the camera and lens to get their act together.


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## atosk930 (Aug 22, 2012)

did no one notice that he said "24-70 F2.8 II"...

I didn't think these were available to the public yet?



Quasimodo said:


> I have shot a lot of bikes this summer. I am by no means an expert, but I normally shoot in AV, AI Servo, and use the AF-ON to track and the shutter button to take the picture. I use Shutter priority when I am attempting to get real panning blur, but this is hard as they are passing me in more than 200 km/h. This picture was taken on Thursday using a borrowed 1DX and the Canon 24-70 F2.8L II.
> 
> If you have the chance (and get permission from the ones running the track, try to get a good spot on the track, in a curve where you both have them leaning over with the knee down, also where you can catch them speeding away.


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## Quasimodo (Aug 22, 2012)

atosk930 said:


> did no one notice that he said "24-70 F2.8 II"...
> 
> I didn't think these were available to the public yet?
> 
> ...



Lets just say that it is awsome. Feels great in the hand and gives great pictures. I opened a thread with some shots from that lens, and I had 87 views and no comments, so I took it that people were not interested. 

I was lucky enough to borrow it for 24 hours 6 days ago.


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## Ewinter (Aug 22, 2012)

Could be the 24-105 IS fighting you, if it was on. Has it got IS mode 2? if not, then it might be the IS fighting your panning causing the blur. I don't have experience with this lens, so I can't be sure


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## Kernuak (Aug 22, 2012)

Ewinter said:


> Could be the 24-105 IS fighting you, if it was on. Has it got IS mode 2? if not, then it might be the IS fighting your panning causing the blur. I don't have experience with this lens, so I can't be sure


No the 24-105 only has a single IS mode.


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## Ewinter (Aug 23, 2012)

Kernuak said:


> Ewinter said:
> 
> 
> > Could be the 24-105 IS fighting you, if it was on. Has it got IS mode 2? if not, then it might be the IS fighting your panning causing the blur. I don't have experience with this lens, so I can't be sure
> ...


I believe panning with normal IS then can cause a degradation in the IQ. I'd wonder what would happen if the OP just turned it off for a few shots next time


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## Bosman (Aug 25, 2012)

Using a monopod is a must for smooth panning and yes like ^ turn on is. The Canon whites often have 2 options for IS. The 2nd one is specially for panning, when most the time you use the 1 selection for is on canon whites.


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## gngan (Oct 15, 2012)

bearbooth said:


> Hi again. I am planning to go malaysian Motogp in Oct so I figure I would go out and practise first on my 24-105 before I dive in and buy a 70-200 f4.
> 
> BUT, most of my shots came out blur AGAIN.
> I was trying to 'pan' a little. exif should be available
> ...



Hi Bearbooth, I am also from HK and a biker as well. The rider is going a bit slow on that corner that's why your setting is off. Tell me when you will go to TMS and i can meet up with you.


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## V8Beast (Oct 15, 2012)

bearbooth said:


> Hi again. I am planning to go malaysian Motogp in Oct so I figure I would go out and practise first on my 24-105 before I dive in and buy a 70-200 f4.



Since the 24-105 does not have the option to pick between Mode 1 and Mode 2 IS, make sure to turn the stabilizer off. It's always extremely difficult to pull off a pan blur at the angle the bike is approaching you in the shot you posted. That's because the bike is heading toward you, and the focal plane is constantly changing. Consequently, the angle at which the bike is traveling and the angle at which you're panning is only synchronized for a very brief moment in time. You would have much better luck by changing the camera angle so that you're shooting more of a side profile instead of front. The shot pwalderh posted is a great example.

A few more thoughts:

- The greater the focal length, the more motion blur you will achieve for a given shutter speed.
- xxD bodies, the 5DC, and 5D2 tend to lock focus on the center of the subject, so you have to manipulate your composition accordingly to make sure the front of the bike is sharp. IMHO, getting the headlights of a bike or car sharp is as important as getting the eyes of a model sharp in a portrait. Even if the rest of the bike is sharp, if the headlights are soft, it will look like junk.


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