# Canon Announces the Canon EOS 6D DSLR



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 17, 2012)

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<p><strong>Canon Announces Its Smallest and Lightest Full-Frame Digital SLR Camera For Serious Photographers

</strong>The EOS 6D Digital SLR Camera Includes a New Full-Frame Sensor, Built-in Wireless and GPS</p>
<p>LAKE SUCCESS, N.Y., September 17, 2012 – Canon U.S.A., Inc., a leader in digital imaging solutions, today introduced the EOS 6D Digital SLR Camera, a versatile mid-range full-frame camera with the durability and performance professionals require and the creative imaging options serious photographers crave. Canon has coupled the incredible image quality of a newly designed 20.2-megapixel full-frame CMOS sensor and DIGIC 5+ Image Processor with the creative potential of built-in Wireless and GPS features. The camera also includes an 11-point AF array and 63-zone dual-layer iFCL metering sensor together with 1080p Full HD video capabilities, in an affordable camera body. Building upon the qualities that made the EOS 5D Mark II camera so successful, the EOS 6D bridges the gap for budget-minded photographers, videographers and cinematographers who are eager to step up into the world of full-frame imaging.</p>
<p>“The introduction of this camera completes a well-rounded ecosystem from input through output for Canon, allowing us to provide the right combination of features for every level of photographer. We believe the EOS 6D Digital SLR Camera along with our new PIXMA Pro printers will help unlock the creative vision of so many who aspire to capture and display their artistic abilities,” stated Yuichi Ishizuka, executive vice president and general manager, Imaging Technologies & Communications Group, Canon U.S.A.</p>
<p><!--more--></p>
<p>Designed for advanced amateurs and videographers making the move to a full-frame Digital SLR, the EOS 6D fits neatly into Canon’s professional imaging system with an advanced feature set including full manual options for creative control in addition to new and intuitive automatic settings to help even novice photographers capture great images. The camera’s construction helps meet the needs of professionals with a 100,000-cycle shutter durability and EOS Integrated Cleaning System for high-quality vibration-based dust removal. Among the many advancements in Canon’s new EOS 6D is the Company’s proprietary DIGIC 5+ Image Processor that powers the camera’s fast 14-bit analog-to-digital conversion for exceptionally smooth color tones and gradation. The camera offers a full-frame, 20.2-megapixel CMOS sensor and continuous shooting up to 4.5 frames per second (fps).</p>
<p>Thanks to the combination of its new CMOS image sensor and the powerful DIGIC 5+ image processor, the EOS 6D provides a wide ISO range from 100-25600 with a low setting, L: 50 and two high settings, H1: 51200 and H2: 102400. These outstanding low-light capabilities allow the EOS 6D to easily capture dimly lit scenes such as wedding ceremonies, indoor corporate events, or landscapes at dusk. To support the ample sensitivity of the new camera’s sensor, the EOS 6D camera’s Auto Focus (AF) system includes a newly-developed 11-point AF sensor featuring a high-precision center cross-type point with an exceptional EV -3 sensitivity rating for accurate focusing even in extremely low-light conditions.</p>
<p>The EOS 6D has a large 3.0-inch Clear View LCD monitor with 1,040,000 dot VGA resolution and 170 degree viewing angle, with high-transparency multicoating for maximum protection and clarity when viewing images or navigating menu screens. When used for Live View shooting, the camera’s bright high-performance LCD screen provides 100 percent coverage, for easy focusing and framing.</p>
<p><strong>Full-Frame 1080p Full HD Video

</strong>Videographers, student filmmakers, and creative independent spirits will appreciate the full-frame video capabilities of the EOS 6D in an affordable and compact body. Borrowing from the best of the EOS 5D-series, the EOS 6D provides full manual control over exposure and audio levels while recording video. The camera features NTSC and PAL video modes at multiple frame rates, recording 1080p at 30 (29.97), 24 (23.976) and 25 fps, 720p at 60 (59.94) and 50 fps and standard video at 30 (29.97) and 25 fps. The camera provides up to 29 minutes and 59 seconds of continuous recording (with 4GB automatic file partitioning) in selectable All i-framei or IPB compressions with embedded timecode. Especially when used with large aperture lenses, the EOS 6D camera’s full-frame sensor offers a tremendous degree of creative control over depth-of-field, helping users to achieve pro-quality cinematic effects in Full HD video recordings.</p>
<p><strong>Built-in Wireless and GPS

</strong>For the ultimate in DSLR connectivity and control, the EOS 6D features a built-in wireless transmitter which allows the camera to share images and video with the user’s choice of wireless devices such as select PowerShot cameras, smartphones, or tablets, as well as cloud-based destinations including social networking sites through the Canon iMAGE GATEWAYii iii. A very intuitive and useful wireless feature is the new, free Canon EOS Remote app available for iOS and Android systems which will allow a smartphone or wireless device such as a tablet to remotely connect, control and operate the connected EOS 6Div. This seamless connection and control will open new opportunities for professional photographers shooting weddings or remote wildlife, without the need for tethered operation or accessories.</p>
<p>For on-location shooters, landscape photographers or enthusiast photo travelers, the EOS 6D features a built-in GPS receiver to record longitude, latitude, elevation and Coordinated Universal Time (UTC) as EXIF data for seamless geo-tagging while shooting. The GPS coordinates are appended to each image and easily syncs with Canon software or mapping apps on social network sites to show image locations. Use of UTC data allows images to be chronologically mapped and trails plotted and recorded.v</p>
<p><strong>Boundless Creativity

</strong>To help photographers unlock their full creative potential and explore all the different avenues of digital photography, the EOS 6D includes several creative modes for image capture. First is the HDR (High Dynamic Range) mode allowing the camera to capture three separate exposures and combine them in-camera for a stunning image capturing both enhanced shadow detail and bright highlights. Next is the camera’s Multiple Exposure mode where users can combine up to nine individual images into a single composite image, with no need for later computer post-processing. Four different compositing methods are provided for maximum creative control, including Additive, Average, Bright and Dark. Compositing results can be viewed in real time on the camera’s LCD monitor, and there is a one-step Undo command that allows photographers to delete an image and try again if desired. The EOS 6D will even allow photographers to specify a previously captured RAW image as the starting point for a new Multiple Exposure composite image. In addition to HDR and Multiple Exposure modes are Canon’s standard Scene Intelligent Auto and special scene modes to capture great images with ease. The camera is compatible with SD, SDHC, and SDXC memory cards including the new Ultra High Speed (UHS-I) cards.</p>
<p><strong>Pricing and Availability

</strong>The EOS 6D Digital SLR Camera will be sold in a body-only configuration at an estimated retail price of $2,099.00 and it will additionally be offered in a kit version with Canon’s EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM zoom lens at an estimated retail price of $2,899.00. Both configurations are expected to be available in December 2012.</p>
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## nicku (Sep 17, 2012)

*Re: Canon Announced the Canon EOS 6D DSLR*

the specs list??? it have AFMA??????????????????????????????

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-6d/



looool shutter speed 1/4000 ((((((


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## Ricku (Sep 17, 2012)

*Re: Canon Announced the Canon EOS 6D DSLR*

*11 AF points and only ONE of them is cross-type??*

Meanwhile the D600 gets 39 points and 9 cross-types!

Even the "lowly" rebel T3i / 650D has 9 cross types!

What are you doing Canon?? Trying to breathe new life into the old focus & recompose technique?


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## Isurus (Sep 17, 2012)

Right now I'm trying to figure out why they didn't integrate wireless and GPS in their $3500 5D MIII. Kind of irritating as they would both be extremely useful.


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## simonxu11 (Sep 17, 2012)

Tell you a joke:
Canon 6D ;D ;D


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## Kmccarthy (Sep 17, 2012)

It's basically a crippled 5D II with wifi and gps. No microfocus, only 1/4000 shutter speed. They could have at least thrown in a built in flash to appeal to casual photographers. Thanks Canon, at least my 5DII won't lose it's value! It is still the best, low cost full frame Canon out there.

I'm glad I bought a 5D III from the Adorama eBay deal.


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## kode (Sep 17, 2012)

*Re: Canon Announced the Canon EOS 6D DSLR*



Ricku said:


> *11 AF points and only ONE of them is cross-type??*
> 
> Meanwhile the D600 gets 39 points and 9 cross-types!
> 
> ...



The wording might be an unlucky one. It might as well mean that the center point is a higher precision cross-type, and that there are more cross-types among the other 10 points.


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## Ricku (Sep 17, 2012)

*Re: Canon Announced the Canon EOS 6D DSLR*



kode said:


> The wording might be an unlucky one. It might as well mean that the center point is a higher precision cross-type, and that there are more cross-types among the other 10 points.


I really don't think it is just unlucky wording. Several sources have already confirmed that it has only 1 cross type point, and many Canon related web forums are in flames a.t.m.

Regarding 6D vs D600:

It looks like Nikon has put things where they count - AF, sensor, etc. - while Canon has none of that, but went for the 'ooh, shiny!' factor with WiFi, GPS and (?) touchscreen - advertising points that shop assistants can use to attract those who know little about cameras.

The D600 looks like a camera One could consider if they really didn't need need the 36MP or fully-fledged AF of the D800. The 6D looks like something almost designed to disappoint the buyer into splashing out for a 5D3 six months later...


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## dswatson83 (Sep 17, 2012)

This is ridiculous what Canon has done. I have been looking to update my 7D and was really disappointed at the price of the 5DIII. When I saw rumors of the 6D I thought my prayers would be answered and I would get a full frame 7D! This camera is ridiculous. It is a full frame 60D. Maybe this could be a backup camera or something but that is it. I doubt a ton of people want a full frame 60D and are willing to pay $2100 for it. 
I am so pissed at Canon right now for crippling this so much (and why include wifi & gps?). They could have priced this for $1800 without those or have put in a worthwhile focus system instead. And not even a dual SD card slot????? Ridiculous Canon. Also, i'm pissed at Canon's new extreme pricing, and for making almost no improvements in the last 4 years in video. Even their recent lenses were disappointing, not in performance, but in usability. Who wants a f/2.8 24mm & 28mm prime and why put IS in that and not in the 24-70 f/2.8? Its obvious Canon knew no one would buy the 24 & 28mm lenses if the 24-70 had IS at f/2.8, even if it was $2,500.

The 6D is not a worthy upgrade for 7D users for sure so now the decision is to save up for the 5DIII or switch to Nikon where the D800 & D600, while not perfect, have alot to offer. I could easily get away with the D600 as a main camera and be very happy where the Canon 6D would even be disappointing as a backup. My only full frame capable lens is the 70-200 f/2.8 II and that is probably easy to sell.


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## M.ST (Sep 17, 2012)

Very funny to hear that the 6D have only a SD-card-slot.

If you have a 7D or a 5D Mark II and you have invest in very expensive and fast CF-Cards you cannot switch to the 6D or you burn a lot of money.

Canon. You loose a lot of customers if you don´t change your product policy.


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## Chewngum (Sep 17, 2012)

dswatson83 said:


> This is ridiculous what Canon has done. I have been looking to update my 7D and was really disappointed at the price of the 5DIII. When I saw rumors of the 6D I thought my prayers would be answered and I would get a full frame 7D!



How much did you think a FF 7d would cost. it would be combining a 7D (about 2200 on release) and a 5D2 (about 3000 on release)...it costs about US3000/3600AUD and its name is a 5D3. The camera does 100,000 shots, so its not meant for pros, who would actually be able to use a FF7D to its potential. Stop you're whinging or start you're saving. I agree that Canon just got beat on paper by the D600, but lets see some samples before final judgements are delivered. The 7d in my opinion was the best break through Canon has made in recent times. The 5d2 was/is amazing and i do own one, but its video success was an accident. I happily shot with the benefits of FF on 5D classic for years and can make its autofocus work magic. A 7D with a better sensor DR and noise at all ISO(dont care about high ISO only) would sell easily. Even if everything else were the same, Canon has to address the crop camera market. So this camera isn't going to convince every 550D user to go to full frame, when it comes down in price it'll make a great 'My First Full Frame' for people looking for the IQ but dont yet need 5d3 features. d600 will likely be a better camera, but Canon (a for-profit company) will make millions on the 6d still.


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## dswatson83 (Sep 17, 2012)

M.ST said:


> Very funny to hear that the 6D have only a SD-card-slot.
> If you have a 7D or a 5D Mark II and you have invest in very expensive and fast CF-Cards you cannot switch to the 6D or you burn a lot of money.
> Canon. You loose a lot of customers if you don´t change your product policy.


Yep, this absolutely should have had 1CF & 1SD, dual SD, or at least 1 CF if they were only going to have 1 card slot. And without cards being 100% reliable, I try to use dual slots for any professional work. Guess i'll never use this camera as a main body.


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## simonxu11 (Sep 17, 2012)

*Re: Canon Announced the Canon EOS 6D DSLR*



Ricku said:


> kode said:
> 
> 
> > The wording might be an unlucky one. It might as well mean that the center point is a higher precision cross-type, and that there are more cross-types among the other 10 points.
> ...


No touchscreen


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## plam_1980 (Sep 17, 2012)

How does it compare to these 

http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d600/sample.htm


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## Ricku (Sep 17, 2012)

DP-Review are not happy about it. 

*Quote:* "Overall, though, it's difficult to shake the feeling that the EOS 6D simply lacks the 'wow' factor of its main rival. Whereas Nikon seems to have taken the approach of taking away as little as possible from D800 when creating the D600, Canon appears almost to have gone the other way, removing as much as it thinks it can get away with at the price. The result is the kind of conservative, slightly unimaginative design that's become the company's hallmark."

Source: http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-6d/6


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## macrodust (Sep 17, 2012)

At least they had sense to put AFMA in it...


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## bradleyg5 (Sep 17, 2012)

I can't believe they had the gall to charge more than the Nikon D600. Canon's pricing is downright insulting lately.


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## dswatson83 (Sep 17, 2012)

Chewngum said:


> How much did you think a FF 7d would cost. it would be combining a 7D (about 2200 on release) and a 5D2 (about 3000 on release)...it costs about US3000/3600AUD and its name is a 5D3. The camera does 100,000 shots, so its not meant for pros, who would actually be able to use a FF7D to its potential. Stop you're whinging or start you're saving. I agree that Canon just got beat on paper by the D600, but lets see some samples before final judgements are delivered.


The 6D could have easily have had 2SD slots & a had a 7D style focus system for $2200 if they pulled out GPS & wifi. No one was asking for a miracle, just 9-19 cross type focus points so we could use something other than the center, and maybe a high precision dual cross type like the 7D for the center. No where near what the 5D III can do. Nikon managed this, and a flash, for under $2100. Plus, in sample images, that is where the Nikon sensor normally shines with better DR and low noise. The 5DIII vs the D800 proved that. I'd still take the 5DIII for a wedding camera any day over the D800 for the focus system, more manageable file sizes, and speed, but nothing beats a D800 image, especially at ISO 100-800.


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## hmmm (Sep 17, 2012)

zheesh and only a 3.0 inch LCD... and no headphone jack...

I was thinking that the scenario that would drive me to Nikon as I transition to FF would be Nikon producing a great intro FF camera, and Canon producing a dumbed down overpriced FF competitor. Well, that scenario has happened.

I haven't made a final decision, but now I'm definitely leaning to switching over. This from a Canonite since the Elan 7E! Oh well... time marches on...


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## nicku (Sep 17, 2012)

plam_1980 said:


> How does it compare to these
> 
> http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d600/sample.htm



The only way that canon can ''get away with it'' is to have better IQ than D600; not equal .... BETTER. Judging by those samples is very, very hard to believe.


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## brianleighty (Sep 17, 2012)

Kmccarthy said:


> It's basically a crippled 5D II with wifi and gps. No microfocus, only 1/4000 shutter speed. They could have at least thrown in a built in flash to appeal to casual photographers. Thanks Canon, at least my 5DII won't lose it's value! It is still the best, low cost full frame Canon out there.
> 
> I'm glad I bought a 5D III from the Adorama eBay deal.


Where did you see the no AFMA? Other than that I can deal with the other stuff.


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## traveller (Sep 17, 2012)

Ricku said:


> DP-Review are not happy about it.
> 
> *Quote:* "Overall, though, it's difficult to shake the feeling that the EOS 6D simply lacks the 'wow' factor of its main rival. Whereas Nikon seems to have taken the approach of taking away as little as possible from D800 when creating the D600, Canon appears almost to have gone the other way, removing as much as it thinks it can get away with at the price. The result is the kind of conservative, slightly unimaginative design that's become the company's hallmark."
> 
> Source: http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-6d/6



DPReview's summary is spot on. The fact is that Canon's probably right that the target audience won't need a fancy AF system, fast continuous burst rate, dual card slots or a 100% viewfinder... But, the main competition is offering these features for the same price and with APS-C upgrader needing to realign their lens collections, the temptation to switch is there. 

I can see the price of used 5D MkIIs staying high after this announcement, but perhaps there will be a glut of EF-S lenses on the market and a shortage of Nikkors! 

So far, this looks like a very weak offer from Canon -and why have they bothered developing a new 20.2MP sensor, when they already have 18MP and 22MP sensors that are less than a year old?


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## brianleighty (Sep 17, 2012)

hmmm said:


> zheesh and only a 3.0 inch LCD... and no headphone jack...
> 
> I was thinking that the scenario that would drive me to Nikon as I transition to FF would be Nikon producing a great intro FF camera, and Canon producing a dumbed down overpriced FF competitor. Well, that scenario has happened.
> 
> I haven't made a final decision, but now I'm definitely leaning to switching over. This from a Canonite since the Elan 7E! Oh well... time marches on...


You go right ahead and switch.


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## Ricku (Sep 17, 2012)

brianleighty said:


> hmmm said:
> 
> 
> > zheesh and only a 3.0 inch LCD... and no headphone jack...
> ...


+1

Everyone who can should make the switch.

It is a bit harder for the ones of us who owns a large collection of Canon-glass + accessories.


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## Gert Arijs (Sep 17, 2012)

I do not understand why most people here think it's bad? It does have AFMA (same AFMA as 5D3, with different MA for wide and tele with zooms). It'll be very good in high ISO's, and have better AF than 5D2. It's very light and a lot less expensive than 5D2 at the time of release. It's not meant as a replacement for a 5D3, it's meant as a modern alternative for a 5D2. The price will drop anyway. AF-points could have been more, but then they would end up with a bigger body and Canon chose not to.
I do not see much point in comparing this with the Nikon D600 as that's a Nikon . I don't change brands because something else can give me 'more' for the same money. In that case, everyone with a crop would buy the new Pentax K5-II, isn't it?
Gert


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## wockawocka (Sep 17, 2012)

If you want a nice camera, pay for it.

If you can't afford it, don't bitch about how Canon sold you short or how they should do something like a D600.

Another $1000 and you have a 5D3, get a job, earn some more, save some money and buy what you want rather than hope a manufacturer will give you something for nothing.


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## DB (Sep 17, 2012)

*Re: Canon Announced the Canon EOS 6D DSLR*



nicku said:


> the specs list??? it have AFMA??????????????????????????????
> 
> http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-6d/
> 
> ...



Why? You don't need 1/8000s for VIDEO work



dswatson83 said:


> M.ST said:
> 
> 
> > Very funny to hear that the 6D have only a SD-card-slot.
> ...



Why do you need a CF slot or more than 1 memory card slot? A 64Gb SDXC card costs a hundred bucks and is perfect for VIDEO. Anyway all existing REBEL owners already have SD memory cards.



bradleyg5 said:


> I can't believe they had the gall to charge more than the Nikon D600. Canon's pricing is downright insulting lately.



All VIDEO cameras cost more than straight photo ones, just look at 1Dc or C300 or C100??



Ricku said:


> DP-Review are not happy about it.
> 
> *Quote:* "Overall, though, it's difficult to shake the feeling that the EOS 6D simply lacks the 'wow' factor of its main rival. Whereas Nikon seems to have taken the approach of taking away as little as possible from D800 when creating the D600, Canon appears almost to have gone the other way, removing as much as it thinks it can get away with at the price. The result is the kind of conservative, slightly unimaginative design that's become the company's hallmark."
> 
> Source: http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-6d/6



I bet you any money that EOSHD will be very happy with the 6D, finally a DSLR to give the 'cracked-GH2' a run for its money!



dilbert said:


> Does Canon know how badly it has delivered with the 6D?
> 
> Will we have to wait 3 to 4 years for it to be replaced with something that might be worthwhile?
> 
> Or will Canon wake up and deliver a replacement in 12 to 18 months?



The EOS 6D will outsell the 7D...period. It will become one of Canon's biggest selling digital interchangeable lens cameras of all time




hmmm said:


> zheesh and only a 3.0 inch LCD... and no headphone jack...
> 
> I was thinking that the scenario that would drive me to Nikon as I transition to FF would be Nikon producing a great intro FF camera, and Canon producing a dumbed down overpriced FF competitor. Well, that scenario has happened.
> 
> I haven't made a final decision, but now I'm definitely leaning to switching over. This from a Canonite since the Elan 7E! Oh well... time marches on...



The external audio recorder that the 6D owner will be using already has a headphone jack (no videographer uses the internal mic other than to sync up audio with video in post)

The NIKON D600 will not produce VIDEO @ ISO 12800 anywhere near as good as the EOS 6D (look at the samples already on Canon USA site)


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## dstppy (Sep 17, 2012)

*Re: Canon Announced the Canon EOS 6D DSLR*

Oh thank goodness we got some Nikon posts on the first page. I guess that guy from SoHo was sleeping, but you guys got our back!

I'm gonna go sell all my gear and switch to Nikon now.

So has anyone CONFIRMED that there is no MFA or are we just playing chicken little?


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## Phenix205 (Sep 17, 2012)

Canon's priority is how not to let Canon A hurt the sale of Canon B or vice versa, so they ended up crippling both products. Nikon's priority is how to beat Canon hands down and that's where innovation comes in. We've seen RIM going down, and we've seen how Miscrosoft hasn't wowed the world for a long time. Arrogance plus lack of innovation. Really disappointed!


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## DzPhotography (Sep 17, 2012)

I don't know, I kinda like it. Pure and simple


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## pdirestajr (Sep 17, 2012)

A deal breaker for me is the lack of a proper thumb joystick in the upper back area- I like to change the focus point directly without taking my eye away from the viewfinder. The back looks like a 60D without the flippy screen!


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## DB (Sep 17, 2012)

bradleyg5 said:


> I can't believe they had the gall to charge more than the Nikon D600. Canon's pricing is downright insulting lately.



Canon's pricing policy is pure MARKETING GENIUS....

........any xxD or xxxD owner will aspire to owning a 6D.... the higher initial entry price for the 6D will ensure (listen to the voices on CR over the last 12 hours as proof) that those serious amateur enthusiasts (incl. 7D owners) will now pony up the extra for a 5D3.....

.... meanwhile lots of budding videographers (look at the Canon 6D Press Release - it mentions 3 categories of user: PHOTOGRAPHERS, VIDEOGRAPHERS & CINEMATOGRAPHERS - 2 out of 3 are video users) will happily pay 2 grand for a FF DSLR video cam with low-light capability as well as compatibility with the new STM lenses 


.... read the threads on this forum re. 6D, commentators have polarized into 2 distinct groups:

(1) those who have their credit cards out and cannot wait till October to get their hands on a 6D

&

(2) those who think its awful and the disappointment is enough to finally trigger their 5D3 purchase


As a 7D owner I wouldn't buy a 6D, but I'm glad that Canon has just protected the residual value of my 7D with their inane pricing strategy


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## matukas (Sep 17, 2012)

I saw one pro taking pictures in Bristol Night Race with this:
http://www.dpreview.com/search/?query=1d%20ma&product=canon_eos1dmkiin
Looked his pictures afterwards, no complaints.
Why complain about this camera you have not seen picture samples from real life?
Take pictures with what you already have and gain more experience taking great pictures.
If camera is too expensive for you, buy one you can afford with good lens(es) and start taking pictures.


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## SwampYankee (Sep 17, 2012)

Well the low rent autofocus system and a top shutter speed less than my current 50D have put my wallet right back in my pocket. I have $2,600 burning a hole in my pocket and I don't think this camera is worth what they are asking. It really looks like they took out as much stuff as possible and hope the "full frame" would sell it. Disappointment. In another 6 months I'll be able to afford a 5D3. I think that is the way to go


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## DB (Sep 17, 2012)

6D body compared to 7D (physically) @ Photokina today

Canon 6D hands on (vs 7D)


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## heron88 (Sep 17, 2012)

Lame. No innovations on either still or motion fronts. If canon continues at this rate they will lose huge market share. I never understand why the little guys are the ones left to do the innovating when the big guys are the ones with enough capital for some serious R&D work. Maybe they are happy selling millions of crappy point and shoots to teenage girls.


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## iso79 (Sep 17, 2012)

Either way it's going to sell like hotcakes.


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## RuneL (Sep 17, 2012)

heron88 said:


> Lame. No innovations on either still or motion fronts. If canon continues at this rate they will lose huge market share. I never understand why the little guys are the ones left to do the innovating when the big guys are the ones with enough capital for some serious R&D work. Maybe they are happy selling millions of crappy point and shoots to teenage girls.



What sort of innovations were you hoping for? Canon did change everything with the 5D and 5D II, give them a break. Or switch to something else, you are free to do so. It's a company, not make a wish foundation, they here to make money, not cater to all sorts of weird ass needs on less than a mid-range product. I'll probably get one, I think. I'd like a full frame camera, but not enough to get the 5D III.


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## dstppy (Sep 17, 2012)

Okay, so nonstop complaining aside, here's a thought:
Wouldn't it have made sense to release an "L" version of an STM lens with this?


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## Nishi Drew (Sep 17, 2012)

RuneL said:


> heron88 said:
> 
> 
> > Lame. No innovations on either still or motion fronts. If canon continues at this rate they will lose huge market share. I never understand why the little guys are the ones left to do the innovating when the big guys are the ones with enough capital for some serious R&D work. Maybe they are happy selling millions of crappy point and shoots to teenage girls.
> ...



Give them a break?? Giving them a break is saying "alright, you deserve a break, don't come to work tomorrow, and actually don't come back at all, we don't need someone who isn't innovative or can't provide people with their needs".

Yes, Canon did a lot with the DSLR world through the 5D and Mk2, so naturally there's the eager anticipation for something huge. Now, an "entry-leve FF" by Nikon provides high IQ uncompressed video and great features all around, and the overall is fantastic compared to the 6D, and that's with Nikon users complaining about what the D600 is lacking in...
Why are you defending a major corporation? Sure they're here to make money and they can do what they want, but that doesn't mean users can't express their dissatisfaction.

And weird needs?? In the digital world your "I want FF" is a weird need so what are you talking about?
Personally, I think GPS and Wifi are weird and unnecessary, I see the benefit users can have with them in workflow and connectivity, but think they're bells on an underperforming and overpriced device.


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## RuneL (Sep 17, 2012)

Nishi Drew said:


> RuneL said:
> 
> 
> > heron88 said:
> ...



You seem angry. 
A lot of people do want wifi and gps, a lot of people have been complaining about the lack of it. Personally I don't need it. And your needs. What the hell, there's competition, choose them instead. My point is, airing your dissatisfaction and being really upset about a product that doesn't give you what you want because you won't spend the money on the 5D III or 1Dx, I don't understand it doesn't actually change anything. And exactly, fire Canon, find a new employee. Crying about it doesn't help anyone.


----------



## spinworkxroy (Sep 17, 2012)

It looks exactly like a 60D..the button arrangement is identical! 
It's more like a FF 60D than a 5Dmk2 replacement.

I can't imagine them releasing a 70D in the future now…if the 60D has 9 cross type, i can't imaging them releasing a 70D with 11 cross type? 

However, if the price drops, i will still get the 6D as my 5D3 backup since my backup is the 60D…so it makes a good backup and upgrde to the 60D and with identical button arrangement, i'll be used to it..


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## Etienne (Sep 17, 2012)

The market place is way too competitive for Canon to be holding back so much.

In this round of new equipment, I will most likely buy the Panasonic GH3 and a couple of v.small lenses for a small and convenient video/photo kit. Waiting to see full reviews first though.


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## extremeinstability (Sep 17, 2012)

December....sigh. I'm with the other person that now has money burning a hole in their pocket, to go full frame. I was going to be content with a 5D II. This camera kinda sounds great to me, in that the price is similar to 5D II now, but has the better sensor closer to the 5D III. It now has me not wanting to buy a 5D II oddly enough and impatience is certainly not able to wait till December. Don't really have enough gear to be completely tied to Canon. Should just go Nikon D600 and pray the line isn't going to make it arriving happen in December anyway. Kinda hating new options right now lol. Should just suck it the hell up and buy a 5D II like was the plan before. Least I can still get the 24mm F1.4 that way and have fun with that. Or get the D600 and Nikon's 24mm F1.4. But hell then I have to take a grand hit selling and replacing my 100-400L....so may as well have used that towards the 5D III instead and still have the better 24mm F1.4 then and keep the 100-400L. 5D III at $2750 just becomes kinda perfect. Get it up and around or over $3000....then the damn Nikon D800 desires jump into play and one is all back at square one at a higher price point. A horrible time for an impatient person ready to go full frame.


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## Marsu42 (Sep 17, 2012)

spinworkxroy said:


> It looks exactly like a 60D..the button arrangement is identical!
> It's more like a FF 60D than a 5Dmk2 replacement.



Since I've got a 60d and am quite happy with it I'd buy the ff version this instant - but not for $2099 *and* a crippled af system @f2.8+, it's either $1099 or at least a full center (double)cross-sensor for me.



Ricku said:


> kode said:
> 
> 
> > The wording might be an unlucky one. It might as well mean that the center point is a higher precision cross-type, and that there are more cross-types among the other 10 points.
> ...



No, you're wrong: The 6d has *no* cross type point at all if you use a f2.8+ lens (if I understand the specs and diagrams correctly). Obviously that's how they managed to get that low-light sensitivity - but making it less precise!

Basically it's the anti-5d3 af for low-light landscape shooters with lenses of f4+ ... I find this ridiculous beyond belief, even I wouldn't have expected this downgrade in comparison to the 5d2 from Canon. It's the price for quiet shutter, ff sensor, gps and wifi to protect the 5d3.


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## Etienne (Sep 17, 2012)

extremeinstability said:


> December....sigh. I'm with the other person that now has money burning a hole in their pocket, to go full frame. I was going to be content with a 5D II. This camera kinda sounds great to me, in that the price is similar to 5D II now, but has the better sensor closer to the 5D III. It now has me not wanting to buy a 5D II oddly enough and impatience is certainly not able to wait till December. Don't really have enough gear to be completely tied to Canon. Should just go Nikon D600 and pray the line isn't going to make it arriving happen in December anyway. Kinda hating new options right now lol. Should just suck it the hell up and buy a 5D II like was the plan before. Least I can still get the 24mm F1.4 that way and have fun with that. Or get the D600 and Nikon's 24mm F1.4. But hell then I have to take a grand hit selling and replacing my 100-400L....so may as well have used that towards the 5D III instead and still have the better 24mm F1.4 then and keep the 100-400L. 5D III at $2750 just becomes kinda perfect. Get it up and around or over $3000....then the damn Nikon D800 desires jump into play and one is all back at square one at a higher price point. A horrible time for an impatient person ready to go full frame.



Buy a used 5DII and wait for reviews on the new gear, take your time


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## cinema-dslr (Sep 17, 2012)

how about uncompressed hdmi out? without overlays??? Nothing is mentioned about it!


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## friedmud (Sep 17, 2012)

wockawocka said:


> If you want a nice camera, pay for it.
> 
> If you can't afford it, don't bitch about how Canon sold you short or how they should do something like a D600.
> 
> Another $1000 and you have a 5D3, get a job, earn some more, save some money and buy what you want rather than hope a manufacturer will give you something for nothing.



Wow, what a condescending post! You sir, are an asshole. I have had nothing but great experiences on this board until this whole 6D thing... and for some reason it's brought out the assholes.

I have a job... a really great one where I make plenty of money (and work hard for it). Photography for me (and a lot of people including the main people the 6D and D600 are aimed at) is a HOBBY. As such there are other places in our lives where we put money other than camera gear... and an enthusiast is always smart to shop for the best deal they can get with their dollars. That's what allows them to continue their hobby while keeping a balance with the rest of their lives.

Could I buy a MKIII? Absolutely! Do I need a MKIII? No. If I am spending $2000 (which is a decent sum for a hobby) do I want the best camera I can get? Yes! Is that best camera a D600? That is looking likely.

This is nothing personal. I'm not advocating that everyone jumps to Nikon or anything like that. But Canon does need to understand that the hobbyist is willing to leave for a better ship. I don't take change like this lightly, but when the facts are staring you in the face and you have to decide where to put your money... You cannot deny that the D600 offers MUCH more for the same price.

I'm not going anywhere just yet. I'm going to wait for the real reviews and make an informed decision... but right now it's not looking good.

Please get off your high horse and try to understand why the rest of us are dissappointed n this announcement...


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## brianleighty (Sep 17, 2012)

pdirestajr said:


> A deal breaker for me is the lack of a proper thumb joystick in the upper back area- I like to change the focus point directly without taking my eye away from the viewfinder. The back looks like a 60D without the flippy screen!


Wow I didn't notice that until just now. Bummer. Hmm that does kind of stink.


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## plam_1980 (Sep 17, 2012)

friedmud said:


> wockawocka said:
> 
> 
> > If you want a nice camera, pay for it.
> ...



+1, well said


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## Marsu42 (Sep 17, 2012)

friedmud said:


> Photography for me (and a lot of people including the main people the 6D and D600 are aimed at) is a HOBBY.



... and many hobbyists that aren't ready to jump ship to Nikon will be content with the 6d as a "high iq tourist landscape" body for lenses with f4+ and an af systems that trades in precision for low light sensitivity. 

I'm sure Canon has done some market research, and while it is quite arrogant to set this against the d600 I'm sure a lot of people will still buy it for wifi & gps "out of the box" alone.


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## amarelux (Sep 17, 2012)

I’m overwhelmed and chomping at the bit to buy the 6D. Sarcasm intended.

Yuichi Ishizuka from Canon U.S.A claims “The introduction of this camera completes a well-rounded ecosystem from input through output for Canon, allowing us to provide the right combination of features for every level of photographer” I can draw only one conclusion from his remark – he and his colleagues at Canon product development have been living in caves the past few years.


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## Cannon Man (Sep 17, 2012)

*Re: Canon Announced the Canon EOS 6D DSLR*



kode said:


> Ricku said:
> 
> 
> > *11 AF points and only ONE of them is cross-type??*
> ...



The d600 does have 39af points but they seem to be just as wide spread as the 11 af points on 6D. Therefore the same old composing tecniques on both the cameras.


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## theyapici (Sep 17, 2012)

ehat about the touch screen? and 100.000 ?


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## brianleighty (Sep 17, 2012)

SwampYankee said:


> Well the low rent autofocus system and a top shutter speed less than my current 50D have put my wallet right back in my pocket. I have $2,600 burning a hole in my pocket and I don't think this camera is worth what they are asking. It really looks like they took out as much stuff as possible and hope the "full frame" would sell it. Disappointment. In another 6 months I'll be able to afford a 5D3. I think that is the way to go


Could of just about had one yesterday as they were selling the mark iii for $2750 on Adorama's ebay page.


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## iso79 (Sep 17, 2012)

dilbert said:


> iso79 said:
> 
> 
> > Either way it's going to sell like hotcakes.
> ...



n00bs, students, parents?


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## extremeinstability (Sep 17, 2012)

Etienne said:


> Buy a used 5DII and wait for reviews on the new gear, take your time



Yeah I think that is the most sensible route and no wait involved there either. I always forget one can later sell these things, if they don't mess them up too bad. I wish all I shot were daylight things with good lighting. I just shoot too many things that like higher ISOs, like say Auroras, Milky Way or moon-lit scenes, even night storm structure can be helped tremendously by ISO'ing up(given no real bright bolts obviously). I owned a 5D II for half a year or so and rented a 5D III and shot the Milky Way with it and whatnot. The noise pattern compared to the crops is just so much nicer and fine. I wish the review sites on their raw samples had the color noise removed for comparison. Hard to really tell what you have to work with when something so easily removed is left on those samples. But anyway, the 5D II and 5D III I found so so similar in noise, but with the 5D III trying to edge its way ahead up in the 5000+ stuff, which playing with the Milky Way or whatever can be fun. And just now I see the listed specs of the D600 don't even go to the 5D III or this D6, so it sorta makes me wonder if that slight edge up in real high ISO even happens with it anyway. I'm often far too willing to "split hairs" too much lol. It makes one kinda realize just how big a jump that 5D II sensor was and as much as it hangs out now in the high ISO noise arena(especially if you remove the color noise in the RAW converter and compare that way). It's just hard to ignore the better spec option now "out" in what for some is a used area. To hell with patience till December over it however. Will be a 5D II owner again tomorrow, go Canon lol.


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## fabpitou75 (Sep 17, 2012)

D600 center focus point sensitivity is -1EV
6D center focus point sensitivity is -3EV (-2EV for 5dmk3).
I think it does make sense to wait and see how the AF performs (in-depth reviews) before drawing any conclusions.


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## brianleighty (Sep 17, 2012)

iso79 said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > iso79 said:
> ...



Just because somebody buys doesn't mean they don't know what they're doing. A body is only one piece in a whole ecosystem. The GPS and Wifi might be nice to have integrated and you can complain all you want about the specs but it's not really that bad. There's a couple things that would of been nice to have but I'm sure this camera will take some great pictures.


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## wockawocka (Sep 17, 2012)

plam_1980 said:


> friedmud said:
> 
> 
> > wockawocka said:
> ...



You know in the mainstream all I see whenever a new body is realeased are people complaining about what it doesn't have. Like they're owed something by any one manufacturer, like anyone here actually cares about Canon as a company or that they actually care what the armchair commentators with no industry experience think.

People only care about them in hope that they will continue to support and deliver a decent product. If there was a clear advantage over any one system people would leave to go to that. There is no loyalty with consumers over a product. None whatsoever. I for one am sick and tired of people saying Canon had better sort themselves out or..or..or what exactly?

So what if it only has one cross type sensor. Who cares really? Why would anyone care other than they're invested in Canon glass and will lose money to switch. All completely selfish motives.

Peoples expectations are way too high. Canon doesn't care about you guys. They care about the bottom line. They want you to either upgrade from your crop sensor to full frame and your glass as a consequence (hey, they'd love you to have two bodies) but at the same time they don't want to piss off the pro's by giving you something too close to their pro product.

It isn't a pissing contest between two manufacturers. Canon really doesn't care about what Nikon does. If they did they would of delivered more. Nikon are the company eating their own young by confusing the marketplace and having lots of crossovers between bodies with cameras that don't even work properly, the D800 focus system and the exploding batteries for two.

Don't get me started on the light leak issue which showed up on the 5D3 when you took a shot of your lens cap. The Hoo Ha over that was unbelievable. Calls for Canon Executives to by burned at the stake when in reality it harmed no-ones photographic output at all.

Any of these cameras out today are mindblowingly good. The 5D2 and 1Ds3 still take amazing pictures, they can be had cheaper / same price as the 6D and readily available. The 6D 'might' be out in December. Christ people are complaining about the release date too!

10-14 years ago we had film. Canon have delivered time and time again from the Eos-1V to the 1DX. I wish people would stop complaining about little things and go out and take some damn pictures instead. Actually use the cameras.

If a new release doesn't have the features you want, expect to buy a different body which has them. Canon will never cannibalise the pro segment to satisfy the consumer level products. Nikon might, Canon won't.


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## iso79 (Sep 17, 2012)

brianleighty said:


> iso79 said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



Exactly. Most gearheads bitching and whining about the specs don't know how to take good pictures let alone know how to shoot in manual.


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## RuneL (Sep 17, 2012)

wockawocka said:


> plam_1980 said:
> 
> 
> > friedmud said:
> ...



+ ∞
this, this so much. I love you.


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## brianleighty (Sep 17, 2012)

RuneL said:


> wockawocka said:
> 
> 
> > plam_1980 said:
> ...


+ infinity squared.


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## st3mpy (Sep 17, 2012)

I'm reading the complaints, and it seems that people are upset Canon actually relies on the user to create a photograph. 

"Trying to breathe new life into the old focus & recompose technique? "

Really? That's like being upset because you bought a car without auto-parking. "Trying to breathe new life into the old parallel parking technique".

I swear, some of you want focusing technique to go the way of exposure: and that is to take the technique completely out of the equation.


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## Meh (Sep 17, 2012)

iso79 said:


> brianleighty said:
> 
> 
> > iso79 said:
> ...



And just like that... boom, there it goes... people complain or criticize about product and someone just has to go to the personal attack with the same typical defensive response... "I think it's good and I'm awesome so anyone who disagrees must be a gearhead and doesn't know how to take a good picture anyway"...


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## Ryan_W (Sep 17, 2012)

st3mpy said:


> I'm reading the complaints, and it seems that people are upset Canon actually relies on the user to create a photograph.
> 
> "Trying to breathe new life into the old focus & recompose technique? "
> 
> ...



You mean you have to use your hands? That's like a baby's toy!
Wild Gunman scene in Back to the future II, 80s cafe


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## mystic_theory (Sep 17, 2012)

Kudos to Canon! (Assuming the sensor is really new and has better DR than the 5D MIII as it should to keep up with the competition.)

I have to admit that I thought all these specs floating around were just a stunt to avoid a collective depression in the Canon community.


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## bvukich (Sep 17, 2012)

fabpitou75 said:


> D600 center focus point sensitivity is -1EV
> 6D center focus point sensitivity is -3EV (-2EV for 5dmk3).
> I think it does make sense to wait and see how the AF performs (in-depth reviews) before drawing any conclusions.



That part caught my eye too. I'm really interested in seeing some trusted reviews. If this has some crazy next-gen AF sensor, something that can finally keep up with the crazy high ISOs modern sensors are pulling off, we may all be surprised at it's performance.

I would be astounded if the AF is worse than the 9 cross AF on the 60D, and it would be downright stupid of Canon to release something like that in a $2k camera. If it's at least as good as 60D, I'll probably buy one. If not, I'll raid the kids piggy banks and get the 5DIII.


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## daveheinzel (Sep 17, 2012)

I might be the only one who actually wants this camera. I currently have a 7D and 60D, shoot a mix of subjects (portraits, sports, landscape) for both paid work and for fun, and I take a lot of video with both cameras.

I use the 7D for football with my telephoto zoom and have my 10-22 on the 60D for crowd and close-range photos, which the 6D would be better for (I have the 17-40, which would work, although it's slow). I only use the center AF point, possibly a holdover from my early SLR days. But I'm not overly concerned with "only" 11 AF points.

I've never owned a full-frame (unless you count the EOS 3 film camera), and this seems like a logical step up. I could sell the 60D and 10-22 and be more than halfway to the cost of the 6D. The 5Diii would be ideal, but it's just out of my price range. And if I managed to save up that kind of money, I have a million other things in real life where I should put that money first.

So, yeah. This should be a no-brainer. But for some reason, I already have premature buyers' remorse. And the thing isn't even out yet. Good thing I am forced to sleep on it.


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## etg9 (Sep 17, 2012)

I own a 5D III and think it's really great. This, IMHO, is a horrible release. It looks video oriented but does really even pull that off. I'm not sure who they think is going to buy this as an entry level full frame (changing lenses anyway) over the D600.

B&H Prices right now:
Canon 6D + 24-70 II = $4400
Nikon D600 + 24-70 = $3985

is there anything the canon will do that is worth $415 to a normal consumer? from the samples so far the D600 has really excellent low light capabilities and the ISO handling looks quite nice. I don't understand what the appeal is for the 6D.

Specs should have been:
22MP (5D3)
45pt AF system (old 1 series) or the 7D system reworked for full frame
cropped 96-97% view finder
built in flash
4 fps
1 x CF card
lesser build quality than 5D3

It also starts shipping in 2 days as opposed to 2 months and knowing Canon's track record might miss Christmas. I told someone yesterday who is looking for a camera for this fall to go with a D600 as I feel it's just a step below my 5D3 while costing way less. As a consumer (I have no vested interest in Canon) I want to see these companies fight to put out the best cameras possible as we are the ones who really get the best out of it.


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## Caps18 (Sep 17, 2012)

I wish my 5Dm2 had built in GPS... That is the only feature that I would like. 

Other than that, it doesn't look that bad, and would probably be the camera I would buy if I had to replace my 5Dm2.


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## chadders (Sep 17, 2012)

brianleighty said:


> iso79 said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



And that's it in a nutshell!

As an impartial observer, I'm wondering just who are the people doing most of the complaining?
5D MkIII users, I don't really understand those users bitching. After all they are definitely not the target buyers for this camera? Maybe they are annoyed about the built in WiFi and GPS, not being on the MkIII?
Is it current 7D users, disappointed that this isn't the 7D2 they were hoping/expecting?
Is it current 5DMkII users who can't afford a MkIII? They may well have some legitimate cause to comment negatively.

Or are a large number Nikon "trolls", always happy to have a go at Canon?

The fact remains that the people likely to use this camera will neither be pros or semi-pros, and it ought to be accepted that this camera is not for them. They are are, of course, perfectly able to express an opinion re the shortcomings regarding Canon's pricing and design philosphy and the debate is all the more interesting for that.
However, to damn a camera on the basis of it's perceived lack of, or perceived poor features, is a bit premature since nobody has yet had their hands an one to write a review.


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## iso79 (Sep 17, 2012)

Meh said:


> iso79 said:
> 
> 
> > brianleighty said:
> ...



Well it's usually the case. I've run into too many gearheads who own all the latest gear, every single L lens, but when you ask them to shoot in manual and properly expose a photo, they scratch their heads. There's too much negativity on the Internet.


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## wockawocka (Sep 17, 2012)

I shoot 50 weddings a year and shoot them entirely in manual mode.

The only thing the 6D announcement did was make me wonder why my 1DX didn't get the wifi and GPS treatment, that would of been great for my high end shoots.

Then again, how good is the wifi, it could be really slow.


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## Meh (Sep 17, 2012)

To both camps on whether or not this is a good camera: Yes it is. No question about that.

To both camps on whether it should have more or better features: Hard to say, it has to find a happy middle ground between the bodies above and below it in the line up.

To both camps on whether Canon made a big mistake and will lose customers: Hard to say, if anyone doesn't like this body there are other bodies above and below it in the line. Canon is not betting the farm on this body.

The question to me is what market segment is this body targeted to given the specs and price. It's a great camera that provides a FF sensor to anyone who doesn't need/want better AF, speed, sealing, durability, etc. etc. But who are those people and how big is that market. It's certainly not targeted at pros and it might be too expensive as a step up for anyone looking at a Rebel.

If this body was priced at or below $1500 then the specs start to make sense... enough potential Rebel customers will be tempted by it. But honestly, the vast majority of average camera consumers who would normally be looking at Rebels don't know the differences between APS-C and FF... so how many of them are going to plunk down $2k for this body over a 60D for $900?


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## Eiremon (Sep 17, 2012)

I am an amateur photographer who started with Canon about 10 years ago. I have owned the 10D, 20D, 30D, 50D, 7D and now the 5D MkII. I have often upgraded over the years - some of the upgrades were less critical than others but I always felt I was getting some value in the upgrade. I did not purchase the MkII until I got it for under $2k new. I am very keen on the MkIII but can't justify it at this time. I would be more than ready to spend $2-$2.5k on a respectable 5D MkII upgrade which would give me a better AF system. I refuse to throw money at something like the 6D which is clearly dumbed down from what could have been offered. Especially considering what Nikon is offering. 

I like my Canon kit and can get really nice results with my current lens / body combo. Starting new I would most likely choose Nikon as I think they tend to hold back less than Canon and therefore offer better value.

My point - I would be willing to give Canon my $$$ on a respectable upgrade to the 5D MkII but I see not a reason to at this time. Their appear to be overthinking their product strategy while their competitors are giving users more for less. At this stage I will most likely end up with a used 5D MkIII - maybe bought from someone switching to Nikon - and Canon will have a) lost my upgrade money and b) lost a customer to Nikon. Not exactly what they are aiming for I assume...


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 17, 2012)

brianleighty said:


> Where did you see the no AFMA? Other than that I can deal with the other stuff.





dstppy said:


> So has anyone CONFIRMED that there is no MFA or are we just playing chicken little?



The 6D does have AFMA. From the Canon USA EOS 6D page, Features section, in the description of the 11-pt AF system:

"_For even more customization, adjustment levels for the wide-angle and telephoto ends of particular lenses can be entered and recorded into the camera’s memory._"

So...yes to AFMA, and yes to W and T adjustments for zooms, like the 5DIII and 1D X. 

But IMO, other than the -3 EV center point for low light shooting, there are really no redeeming characteristics of this AF system specification. Point spread no better than the 5DII, two more selectable points but four _fewer_ points in terms of Servo tracking (which wasn't the 5DII's strong point anyway). Sure, the -3 EV is nice, but not salvation by any means given the frequency most users shoot in light that low (my 5DII, spec'd to -0.5 EV, could AF in light that needed ISO 25600).

Only one cross-type sensor, and that one not even a dual cross. 

Now that the 60D's 9 cross-type AF with center f/2.8 dual cross has trickled down to the T4i/650D, IMO the Rebel line has a better AF system than the 6D.


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## Meh (Sep 17, 2012)

wockawocka said:


> I shoot 50 weddings a year and shoot them entirely in manual mode.
> 
> The only thing the 6D announcement did was make me wonder why my 1DX didn't get the wifi and GPS treatment, that would of been great for my high end shoots.
> 
> Then again, how good is the wifi, it could be really slow.



I've never used WiFi but the usual assessment is it's too slow if you shoot RAW to be of much practical use.

I'm not sure how well WiFi, GPS, or a build wireless flash transmitter (DarkNightNine suggested this in another thread) would work through the full magnesium frame of a 1DX.


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## Gothmoth (Sep 17, 2012)

iso79 said:


> Well it's usually the case. I've run into too many gearheads who own all the latest gear, every single L lens, but when you ask them to shoot in manual and properly expose a photo, they scratch their heads. There's too much negativity on the Internet.



yawn ... why you you come to a gear website then? :
there are a lot of photograhpy focused forums on the net!

this website is about GEAR TALK.... so what?

and yes, when longtime canon users see better deals from nikon... they tend to be upset and they complain.


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## brianleighty (Sep 17, 2012)

etg9 said:


> I own a 5D III and think it's really great. This, IMHO, is a horrible release. It looks video oriented but does really even pull that off. I'm not sure who they think is going to buy this as an entry level full frame (changing lenses anyway) over the D600.
> 
> B&H Prices right now:
> Canon 6D + 24-70 II = $4400
> Nikon D600 + 24-70 = $3985



Are you seriously comparing the Nikon and Canon 24-70s? Who will pay the $400 difference? Sign me up for one. Sheesh


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## meli (Sep 17, 2012)

DB said:


> bradleyg5 said:
> 
> 
> > I can't believe they had the gall to charge more than the Nikon D600. Canon's pricing is downright insulting lately.
> ...



I can see that you're out preaching incessantly about how this joke of a camera is somehow worth the investement, but seriously, your posts are choke full of assumptions and missinformation


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## pakosouthpark (Sep 17, 2012)

hands on video from engadget

http://www.engadget.com/2012/09/17/canon-eos-6d-hands-on/


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## brianleighty (Sep 17, 2012)

With all the negatives people have to say about this camera. One interesting positive is I believe the metering system is the same as the 5d mark iii correct? That could be a nice addition vs my 5d mark ii one.


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## dswatson83 (Sep 17, 2012)

It just feels like this camera was more of an attempt to hit a price point without trying to hit features of any other existing Canon camera rather than a model directed at a specific user base. 

They avoided competing with the 60D, t4i & 5D3 by lacking live AF from the t4i, no headphone jack like the 5d3 and no tilt screen of the 60D & 4ti, no clean hdmi out, and no dual card slots.

For photography it seems weak as it is lacking a decent AF system (even something like the 7D), no dual card slots, or at least a single pro CF slot if you can only have 1 (such as the 7D), only 3 bracket exposure vs 7 of the 5d3, way slower than the 5d3 or 7D, no flash, no 100% view finder, only 1/4000 max shutter speed, only 1/180 max flash sync, and usb 2.0.

Then it seems that since this resulted in a body to inexpensive, they added gps & wifi which few people need in a DSLR rather than adding back some of the specs they removed to not compete with the other cameras. 

It's a camera that seems weak no matter what area of photography you are in:
For sports - too slow and bad focus system, no CF or dual card slots, No 100%VF, no joystick, limited controls
For Wedding/Event - No dual card slot for backup, poor focus system, slow flash sync, No 100%VF, no af joystick
For video - No live AF, no swivel screen, no headphone jack, no clean hdmi, no dual cards for backup or overflow, no silent operation like the 5D3 or D600
For studio/landscape - No 100%VF, No Backup card, only 20MP vs the D600 & D800, limited DR most likely
For Travel/consumer - No popup flash, no card backup, no swivel screen, no live af, no touch screen 

What/who is this camera for. This is clearly Canon's attempt to produce a camera without stepping on any other camera's toes. 

Instead, the best camera for each item never include the 6D:
For sports - Buy the 1Dx, 7D, or even 5D3 (don't buy a 6D for this ever)
For Wedding/Event - buy the 5D3, 1Dx, then maybe a 7D or 6D (both have some negatives)
For video - Sony A99, 1Dc, 5D3, 1Dx, 60D, t4i, then maybe a 6D 
For studio/landscape - 5D3 or go Nikon because they are the best for this with the D800 & D600
For Travel/consumer - Nikon D600 or 5D3, t4i, then maybe i'd get a 6D


----------



## wockawocka (Sep 17, 2012)

Meh said:


> wockawocka said:
> 
> 
> > I shoot 50 weddings a year and shoot them entirely in manual mode.
> ...



A very good point made which I hadn't thought of.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 17, 2012)

wockawocka said:


> Meh said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not sure how well WiFi, GPS, or a build wireless flash transmitter (DarkNightNine suggested this in another thread) would work through the full magnesium frame of a 1DX.
> ...



I've heard this argument, but really, it would be pretty simple for them to run a couple of 'ribbon' antennas outside the magnesium alloy chassis and under the rubberized material.


----------



## CTJohn (Sep 17, 2012)

As an amateur enthusiast, I moved from the T1i to a 7D over a year ago and love the 7D. The only reason I've been following this announcement is that I'd like better dynamic range and image quality (not that the 7D is bad.) This camera takes away the on camera flash, which I use to fire two remote 430EXII Speedlites, takes away what's been a great autofocus system on the 7D, and takes away FPS performance. It gives me GPS (which I never use on my S100) and WiFi, where I still don't understand the value when shooting in RAW. I don't know about the image quality at this point, but if it's not a major step up, Canon won't be getting my money. I have 3 L lenses, and the Speedlites, and tons of other Canon gear, so a switch to Nikon probably isn't in the works either. I hope competition gets Canon producing more complete solutions.

Just disappointed I guess.


----------



## SwampYankee (Sep 17, 2012)

brianleighty said:


> SwampYankee said:
> 
> 
> > Well the low rent autofocus system and a top shutter speed less than my current 50D have put my wallet right back in my pocket. I have $2,600 burning a hole in my pocket and I don't think this camera is worth what they are asking. It really looks like they took out as much stuff as possible and hope the "full frame" would sell it. Disappointment. In another 6 months I'll be able to afford a 5D3. I think that is the way to go
> ...


I've heard that in a number of places. I look at canon price watch daily and I did not see this . Does Adorama have a separate ebay page? Do you have a link? I would have jumped on this but I keep missing these. Thanks


----------



## ScottyP (Sep 17, 2012)

Does it have Micro Focus adjustment?


----------



## brianleighty (Sep 17, 2012)

SwampYankee said:


> brianleighty said:
> 
> 
> > SwampYankee said:
> ...


Slickdeals.net pretty much always has the deals up first. Setup an alert for Canon on there and whenever there's a post they'll email you right away. That's how I got my 5d mark ii and 24 105 for $2400.


----------



## Act444 (Sep 17, 2012)

So much negativity - and there hasn't even been a review or image gallery yet. 

To me, this could potentially be an interesting camera. But not at the current asking price. If this comes down a few hundred dollars over the next few months, it may actually be worth a look *IF* the image quality and high ISO performance match that of the 5D III. 

As someone who prefers the reach of a "crop" 1.6x camera, if the image quality of FF is truly a step up- it may be something to think about...whether I could potentially have both. But FF cameras are just too expensive...even the most basic ones as we see here today.


----------



## DB (Sep 17, 2012)

ScottyP said:


> Does it have Micro Focus adjustment?



Yes, the new 6D does have Auto Focus Micro Adjustment, same as the 7D and 5D etc.


----------



## htjunkie (Sep 17, 2012)

I was eagerly waiting for Canon's entry level FF camera after the uber-expensive 5D III was released. Then we heard about the D600, which got me really excited, and did NOT disappoint. Now, Canon has finally revealed their entry-level FF camera, and they DID disappoint, as well as clearly shown their intentions: continue milking their customers. They created that awful 6D to make sure that anybody serious about photography has no other choice than getting the 5D III. I am a 5D II owner, and the only upgrade path for me would be the 5D III at this point. I can't lose my joystick controller and my side buttons to that aberration of a 6D, right?

Well...screw you Canon. I will simply save up a little longer and get me a D600 with the 24-85mm kit lens, and keep my 5D II + Canon glass. This way I can get the best of both worlds. If Canon ever wakes up and start being competitive again, I can upgrade the 5D II with their new - decent - offering. But for now, will be joining the ranks of the satisfied Nikon shooters, and will be able to use the legendary 14-24mm for my landscapes.


----------



## DJD (Sep 17, 2012)

Children,
If you don't like it, don't buy it. 
Cheers,
DJD


----------



## Martin (Sep 17, 2012)

What the **** is this? A NEW camera.... funny

Maybe it is time to shut down the canon rumors as there is really nothing exciting about the new gear from Canon.


----------



## Helevitia (Sep 17, 2012)

Can someone tell me what this means: 63-zone Dual-Level Metering Sensor?

I'm assuming it's to read the amount of light that the camera sees, correct? Also, how does that play a role with AF since they are bunched together in the specs? Thanks!

Also, I think wifi and gps are a gimmick. After 3 months, nobody will use wifi and gps will be used by the minority, IMHO.


----------



## brianleighty (Sep 17, 2012)

Act444 said:


> So much negativity - and there hasn't even been a review or image gallery yet.
> 
> To me, this could potentially be an interesting camera. But not at the current asking price. If this comes down a few hundred dollars over the next few months, it may actually be worth a look *IF* the image quality and high ISO performance match that of the 5D III.
> 
> As someone who prefers the reach of a "crop" 1.6x camera, if the image quality of FF is truly a step up- it may be something to think about...whether I could potentially have both. But FF cameras are just too expensive...even the most basic ones as we see here today.


I agree with you there. At $2100 it's not worth it especially if you can get a deal like the other day on the 5D iii ($2750). For $650 more, it's a no brainer. But make it say $850 to $1000 more and then starts getting a little more tempting.


----------



## Bruce Photography (Sep 17, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> brianleighty said:
> 
> 
> > Where did you see the no AFMA? Other than that I can deal with the other stuff.
> ...



+1. Thank You for being detailed enough to find that Microadjust statement. I was just reading features on DPR and the announcement and I didn't see it. Thank you again. By the way, I do love my 60D and the tiltable screen. If they got rid of the left buttons why didn't they incorporate a tilt screen? It is a consumer feature like gps and wireless connect my our phones. If this is their answer to "way cool" why not the tilt screen?


----------



## borner (Sep 17, 2012)

htjunkie said:


> I was eagerly waiting for Canon's entry level FF camera after the uber-expensive 5D III was released. Then we heard about the D600, which got me really excited, and did NOT disappoint. Now, Canon has finally revealed their entry-level FF camera, and they DID disappoint, as well as clearly shown their intentions: continue milking their customers. They created that awful 6D to make sure that anybody serious about photography has no other choice than getting the 5D III. I am a 5D II owner, and the only upgrade path for me would be the 5D III at this point. I can't lose my joystick controller and my side buttons to that aberration of a 6D, right?
> 
> Well...screw you Canon. I will simply save up a little longer and get me a D600 with the 24-85mm kit lens, and keep my 5D II + Canon glass. This way I can get the best of both worlds. If Canon ever wakes up and start being competitive again, I can upgrade the 5D II with their new - decent - offering. But for now, will be joining the ranks of the satisfied Nikon shooters, and will be able to use the legendary 14-24mm for my landscapes.



I'm with you - 5DmkI, and 5dMkII owner. LOTS of L glass. The trend that last few years for Canon is sad. I'm seriously considering the D600 or D800 and getting into the Nikon camp. Right now they have much better value IMHO. Canon clearly has an inflated sense of brand. Many of the faithful will stay loyal, as they do with Apple. But many others will jump ship. And I don't think they'll attract the fence straddlers and newcomers w/o adjusting their market approach. Just my $.02.


----------



## Drizzt321 (Sep 17, 2012)

If this is supposed to be video oriented, it certainly needed to do [email protected], clean uncompressed HDMI output, and preferably a headphone jack. Plus make sure it has the timecode like the 5d3 does, and other bits and pieces for the video codec in the 5d3. Oh, and as others are saying, phase detect AF similar to the T4i (even though it isn't great, it's something) and a swivel like the 60d. Dual slot (even dual SDXC) would be nice, and definitely the auto-rollover to a new file as needed.

The think I'm pissed about is how they didn't put GPS into my 5d3 (and 1dX). Least they could have done, and maybe if they needed an antenna there would be a cheap way for that to get plugged in. The WiFi I probably wouldn't use, but I can see how it might be useful now and then and I'd have though they would do that for the 5d3/1dX as well. I mean really, the 2 flagship models don't have something like this?

Personally, having shot the 5d2, if I were considering an upgrade the only things that would attract me would be the additional high ISO settings, and if I did video the [email protected] That's it. I doubt I'd 'upgrade' to the 6d from the 5d2, especially since my CF cards wouldn't be compatible. Oh, and are the batteries compatible between 5d2/5d3 and the 6d? I love how they kept the same battery size between 5d2 and 5d3.


----------



## dswatson83 (Sep 17, 2012)

DJD said:


> Children,
> If you don't like it, don't buy it.
> Cheers,
> DJD


If this camera was a toy, then you would be right. But for many of us a camera is a tool for a business of some sort and as such, we have needs that must be met from our tools in order to get our job done. By looking at this spec sheet and the samples posted, I don't think this tool works for anyone. As a result, this means we either need to up our price point to get a very high priced 5d mark III (which can hurt in this economy), or switch brands which is not as easy as it sounds. A Nikon camera 'feels' different, the buttons are different, and it could take a while for it to be 2nd nature. Plus many of us are invested in lenses & flashes that do not work on the other system. We are upset because those of us with 4yo 7d's or 5dII's need to upgrade to meet consumer demands, but could live without some of the extreme advances (focus system/build) of the high end 5D3 or 1Dx. And, many of us have price restrictions that keep us from the 5D3 or 1Dx ($2,100 vs $3500 or $6,500 is a big difference). We depend on companies like Canon to produce great cameras at each price point to keep our business thriving and to keep customers excited about the quality of their photographs, even in demanding situations such as low light or with lots of fast movement. With the 6D, I would be limited to taking pictures where focus & composition are not critical. Plus, I wouldn't have the assurance of duplicate files on a separate card. A flash works for focus assist in low light photos also and slow sync speeds surly won't help with flash in daylight. Features such as wifi & gps offer no business benefit that I can think of (to me at least) but focus & card redundancy matters.


----------



## RuneL (Sep 17, 2012)

I've never used anything but the 1D-series for my work. I considered the 5D II but found the auto focus sub par. For me the 6D would be fine for portrait work, the size is less frightening than the 1D, easy to carry, I'd like it, as a professional. It would serve me well.


----------



## brianleighty (Sep 17, 2012)

Bruce Photography said:


> +1. Thank You for being detailed enough to find that Microadjust statement. I was just reading features on DPR and the announcement and I didn't see it. Thank you again. By the way, I do love my 60D and the tiltable screen. If they got rid of the left buttons why didn't they incorporate a tilt screen? It is a consumer feature like gps and wireless connect my our phones. If this is their answer to "way cool" why not the tilt screen?


I agree with you on the tilt screen. Especially with this being more pointed towards video, that would of been a great feature to have.


----------



## joemod (Sep 17, 2012)

A question about the focus points. According to specs:


> AF Points
> 11 points
> 
> Center: cross-type at f/5.6; vertical line-sensitive at f/2.8.
> ...


What does "sensitive" in this context mean? The center focus point will work both vertically and horizontally with a f5.6 lens but with a 2.8 lens it will work better vertically?

Generally do you think that it is a major upgrade on 7D?

Offtopic: Can we have the 2 threads on 6D merged?


----------



## limelight (Sep 17, 2012)

> Overall, though, it's difficult to shake the feeling that the EOS 6D simply lacks the 'wow' factor of its main rival. Whereas Nikon seems to have taken the approach of taking away as little as possible from D800 when creating the D600, Canon appears almost to have gone the other way, removing as much as it thinks it can get away with at the price. The result is the kind of conservative, slightly unimaginative design that's become the company's hallmark. It's still bound to be a very good camera, of course; just perhaps not quite as good as it could be. -http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-6d/6- DPReview



My FF upgrade will now be to a 5D2 - NOT the 6D! From my perspective the 6D is disappointing, DPReview summed it all up, "conservative, slightly unimaginative design that's become the company's hallmark." I have no plans to jump back to Nikon but Canon needs to watch their back. Technology moves ahead at warp speed and if Canon's stodgy approach continues, they may loose market share and eventually their dominance in the marketplace.


----------



## Ryan_W (Sep 17, 2012)

Meh said:


> wockawocka said:
> 
> 
> > I shoot 50 weddings a year and shoot them entirely in manual mode.
> ...



An antenna the size of a filament might not even work through the polycarbonate coating. You need a decently high gain antenna to get GPS to work through anything, let alone magnesium. But you'd have to be outside for it to work reliably anyway. I hope the GPS has a kill switch so as not to drain the battery searching. 

I also noted that the WiFi in-body has a range of 30 meters as opposed to 150 meters with the attachment Canon offers separately. I didn't see the specs on the WiFi - if it's the new draft protocol AC (which I highly doubt) It would have great bandwidth. It's almost certainly the B/G/N which maxes at like... 20 MB/s I think? What has me drooling (as a freelance photojournalist) is the potential to find my 1 'keeper' shot and upload it wirelessly to an editor via e-mail or FTP. It would also be pretty great if the camera could push via WiFi to android or iOS and convert for sharing similarly. Can't tell you how great it would be to update virtually live from the scene without instagram or Cell phone pics. Would be a game-changer for indy journalists everywhere, even if it did take some 2 minutes to transfer and upload.


----------



## Marsu42 (Sep 17, 2012)

Drizzt321 said:


> The think I'm pissed about is how they didn't put GPS into my 5d3 (and 1dX).



They couldn't because else you'd be p* about them not making the 5d3/1dx full metal.

What potential 6d buyers should be p* reall about is Canon obviously not putting a rf flash controller for 600rt-type flashes into the 6d - would certainly have been possible since the top is only plastic to transmit wifi/gps!


----------



## simonxu11 (Sep 17, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> Drizzt321 said:
> 
> 
> > The think I'm pissed about is how they didn't put GPS into my 5d3 (and 1dX).
> ...


Are you serious? 
If they put a rf flash controller in 6d, how can they release 6d mark II with this as their major selling point ;D


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 17, 2012)

Helevitia said:


> Can someone tell me what this means: 63-zone Dual-Level Metering Sensor?
> 
> I'm assuming it's to read the amount of light that the camera sees, correct? Also, how does that play a role with AF since they are bunched together in the specs? Thanks!



It's the same metering sensor in the 7D, 5DIII, 60D, etc. the metering sensor determines the amount of light in various portions of the scene, and uses that for the camera to make its exposure decision on what is "correct". Dual layer means it is somewhat sensitive to color information as well. That helps out with the AF in some situations, for example under fluorescent lights, which can alter the accuracy of the AF.


----------



## Helevitia (Sep 17, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Helevitia said:
> 
> 
> > Can someone tell me what this means: 63-zone Dual-Level Metering Sensor?
> ...



Thanks!


----------



## djurma11 (Sep 17, 2012)

limelight said:


> > Overall, though, it's difficult to shake the feeling that the EOS 6D simply lacks the 'wow' factor of its main rival. Whereas Nikon seems to have taken the approach of taking away as little as possible from D800 when creating the D600, Canon appears almost to have gone the other way, removing as much as it thinks it can get away with at the price. The result is the kind of conservative, slightly unimaginative design that's become the company's hallmark. It's still bound to be a very good camera, of course; just perhaps not quite as good as it could be. -http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-6d/6- DPReview
> 
> 
> 
> My FF upgrade will now be to a 5D2 - NOT the 6D! From my perspective the 6D is disappointing, DPReview summed it all up, "conservative, slightly unimaginative design that's become the company's hallmark." I have no plans to jump back to Nikon but Canon needs to watch their back. Technology moves ahead at warp speed and if Canon's stodgy approach continues, they may loose market share and eventually their dominance in the marketplace.



I feel like I am in the same boat. The 6D has some upgrades like:
-better focusing system (can't be worse than 5D2, and despite the lack of wider focus points, it covers same area as 5D2)
-slightly faster frame rate
-slightly better battery life

The DOWNGRADES, however, seem to far outweigh the positives:
-NO CF!!! or at least multiple card slots. SD cards are considerably slower and less durable. I have also invested a good amount of money in getting fast, reliable CF cards



I think the major determining factor will be how much better the 6D sensor preforms when compared with the 5D2 (if it even is better). 
Hopefully by the time we get those figures, the 5d2 will be further discounted thus making my choice easier.


----------



## bvukich (Sep 17, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Helevitia said:
> 
> 
> > Can someone tell me what this means: 63-zone Dual-Level Metering Sensor?
> ...



sed 's/AF/AE/g'

Edit: Since only maybe two people will get that... Neuro meant AE not AF...


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 17, 2012)

bvukich said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Helevitia said:
> ...



Actually, I did mean AF, but AE is also true. From Canon:

"_Since the metering sensor has a color measurement function, exposure errors *and focus errors* caused by different light sources are minimized..._"


----------



## Etienne (Sep 17, 2012)

DJD said:


> Children,
> If you don't like it, don't buy it.
> Cheers,
> DJD



This remark is ignorant and condescending.

You buy into an "eco-system" when you buy a DSLR. The lenses, flashes and other accessories are often many times the cost of the new bodies, whenever they are released.

I bought into the Canon system many years ago, mostly because their commitment to autofocus motors in the lens was a smart way to go. 

Up until recently I have had 100% confidence in my choice to go with Canon. I have invested quite a lot in L lenses because I had total confidence that Canon would do everything in their power to beat the competition. I trusted them to deliver the best product that they could, and they do deliver great products. 

But lately it appears that they are holding back and trying to finesse the market place. But the competition today is fierce. 

Nikon, Sony, Panasonic, and even Samsung are throwing down the gauntlets and putting out their best crack at top products for consumers. We should expect Canon to do the same.

I don't feel comfortable owning a small fortune of Canon lenses and accessories only to see the competition deliver better value.


----------



## Etienne (Sep 17, 2012)

Meh said:


> iso79 said:
> 
> 
> > brianleighty said:
> ...



+1 ..aces


----------



## distant.star (Sep 17, 2012)

.
Is this their first digital SLR that doesn't use a prime number?


----------



## Marsu42 (Sep 17, 2012)

distant.star said:


> Is this their first digital SLR that doesn't use a prime number?



Your're correct - if there's nothing positive to say about a Canon release, let's resort to trivia :->



Etienne said:


> But lately it appears that they are holding back and trying to finesse the market place.



+1 ... here's what they did:

Canon did a market research and asked if people would buy a theoretical 6d over the 5d3. If anybody replied "yes" then they cut the 6d specs back. And since many people said "I'd buy the 6d if it would be better in some areas than the 5d2 but had no regressions" Canon marketing told their engineers to disable the one cross point with lenses with f2.8+ ... operation "protect 5d3" successful, patient "6d" dead.


----------



## brianleighty (Sep 17, 2012)

Ryan_W said:


> What has me drooling (as a freelance photojournalist) is the potential to find my 1 'keeper' shot and upload it wirelessly to an editor via e-mail or FTP. It would also be pretty great if the camera could push via WiFi to android or iOS and convert for sharing similarly. Can't tell you how great it would be to update virtually live from the scene without instagram or Cell phone pics. Would be a game-changer for indy journalists everywhere, even if it did take some 2 minutes to transfer and upload.


That's exactly the feature I think if they did it right could be the thing that really sets this apart and even gets some of the pros that might complain about the specs to get one.


----------



## distant.star (Sep 17, 2012)

.
A question is neither correct nor incorrect. It is a question. You seem to suggest in a flippant response that you believe the answer to be yes.

And this is perhaps the first time I've seen someone refer to prime numbers as "trivia."



Marsu42 said:


> distant.star said:
> 
> 
> > Is this their first digital SLR that doesn't use a prime number?
> ...


----------



## Don Haines (Sep 17, 2012)

So you are a rebel shooter looking to upgrade.....

The 6D has more megapixels than a rebel. We can debate until the cows come home if that is a good thing or not, but the fact remains that more megapixels sell. Look at all the higher end users champing at the bit waiting for Canon to put out a 40+ Megapixel camera..... kind of proves the point.

GPS. Some regard it as useless, some as nice to have.... fact is that the "toy" point and shoots have it, and if you are trying to entice them up to a bigger and better camera, features like that help.

ISO range. The ISO range beats the c**P out of anything in the rebel line. It will be interesting to see what the image quality is, but with a lower pixel density than APS-C and using the latest technology, one would expect to see image quality almost as good as a 5D III.

Focusing. This is aimed at people upgrading from a rebel.... one would expect that the focusing would be better than a rebel. Canon certainly isn't going to make it worse. The low light sensitivity is the best of any DSLR out there.... period! Rather than focus on how many points and what type they are, wait until the camera is reviewed by independant sources..... anything said now is speculation. All that can be safely said is that it SHOULD be better than a rebel and SHOULD be worse than a 5D III. And they have included AFMA that is lens serial number specific and at both ends of a zoom, yet another feature rebel shooters do not have.

The viewfinder.... OK, it's not 100%, but it is way better than on a rebel.

The camera has HDR and multiple exposure modes.... sorry rebel....
63 zone metering... sorry rebel....

I would have liked to have seen the articulated touchscreen of the T4i, but the addition of WiFi brings up the potential for a phone or even Ipad to become the touchscreen and who cares about articulated when you have removable? WiFi is so much more than downloading images. This is a function that has the potential to change the way a lot of people interact with thier cameras. Time will tell how it is implemented, but there is a lot of promise here... and by the way, it is yet another feature to entice rebel shoters to upgrade.

Movie modes....I would have liked to have seen 1920 at 60 hz, but I can understand why it would be left off.

Is it better than a 5D III? Of course not. Is it better than a rebel? Of course so. And it's priced in the middle....

If I were shooting with a rebel and wanted to move up to something better, this is a good place to go.


----------



## Marsu42 (Sep 17, 2012)

Don Haines said:


> Focusing. This is aimed at people upgrading from a rebel.... one would expect that the focusing would be better than a rebel. Canon certainly isn't going to make it worse. The low light sensitivity is the best of any DSLR out there.... period! Rather than focus on how many points and what type they are, wait until the camera is reviewed by independant sources..... anything said now is speculation. All that can be safely said is that it SHOULD be better than a rebel and SHOULD be worse than a 5D III.



No, it should be worse than the 5d3 AND rebels with 9 cross points - and it should even be worse than the 5d2 because on the 6d there is *no* cross point at all if you attach a lens with f2.8+ (i.e. fast zooms, most primes). It's no speculation to say that a cross point will provide more reliable af than only horizontal/vertical, no matter what magic you put in the firmware and how dark it can be.


----------



## daniemare (Sep 18, 2012)

So I wished for a FF Rebel and I guess I just about got it. (I even thought they will call it a 70D)

Am I disappointed about the lack of a Pop-up flash and 7D like AF, yes very much so. Would I have liked a little more fps, yes, but again it is 1fps faster than my current camera (T1i)

Do I care about the view finder (97%), fixed screen and no-touch screen, not at all because it is better than/I do not have it on my current Rebel. Hell from what I understand just being a pentaprism instead of a pentamirror is all the upgrade I need.

Is the GPS and WiFi an unexpected bonus, for sure. And I do not even have to buy new memory cards.

Does the D600 look better on paper, yes. Can I switch??? My 28 F1.8, 50 F1.4 100 F2.8L macro and 70-200 F4 and 430EXII says no. Does this dissapoint me, no. All my lenses were bought used (exept for the 50mm), Canon is far more popular were I live and this make it much easier for me to keep getting what I need at far lower than MSRP through kijiji and craigslist.

This camera is not for those wanting a cheap 5DIII, nor those upgrading at every release. Its for hobbyists like me who can't extract the capabilities of the 6D to its fullest, let alone the incremental difference to the D600.

I am excited and will get one - as soon the first price drops come along.


----------



## Don Haines (Sep 18, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > Focusing. This is aimed at people upgrading from a rebel.... one would expect that the focusing would be better than a rebel. Canon certainly isn't going to make it worse. The low light sensitivity is the best of any DSLR out there.... period! Rather than focus on how many points and what type they are, wait until the camera is reviewed by independant sources..... anything said now is speculation. All that can be safely said is that it SHOULD be better than a rebel and SHOULD be worse than a 5D III.
> ...



They have changed the pattern, they have changed the number of focus points, and they have changed the type and levels of focus points. It sounds better than the T3i and the 60D, the T4i sounds better....... but how all the changes work together, coupled with how the target market shoots, remains to be seen. Perhaps the new pattern will work better with the habits of entry level photographers... I suspect that for most pictures taken the focus point is right in the middle, and that seems to be where this sensor is "aimed". Pun intended.

And by the way, I didn't comment that it WILL be worse than the 5D III and WILL be better than the rebels, I commented that it SHOULD be..... not so much for technical reasons as for marketing reasons.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 18, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> ... on the 6d there is *no* cross point at all if you attach a lens with f2.8+ (i.e. fast zooms, most primes). It's no speculation to say that a cross point will provide more reliable af than only horizontal/vertical, no matter what magic you put in the firmware and how dark it can be.



Not quite true. The f/2.8 line is superimposed on an f/5.6 '+' (technically, the f/2.8 line pair is outside the f/5.6 lines). They act in concert. If the f/2.8 line cannot achieve focus, the f/5.6 line is used. Also, the f/5.6 lines are better with substantial defocus, so often with a hybrid AF point, a 'coarse focus' is achieved with the f/5.6 line(s), and that's refined by the f/2.8 line(s).


----------



## libertyranger (Sep 18, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > ... on the 6d there is *no* cross point at all if you attach a lens with f2.8+ (i.e. fast zooms, most primes). It's no speculation to say that a cross point will provide more reliable af than only horizontal/vertical, no matter what magic you put in the firmware and how dark it can be.
> ...



So the 6D does have a f/5.6 center cross type! And if you use a f/2.8 lens, it becomes a more accurate cross type?


----------



## libertyranger (Sep 18, 2012)

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Photography-Tips/Canon-EOS-DSLR-Autofocus-Explained.aspx

Read this article today. Guessing it's you neuro? My understanding from it is that f/2.8 cross-types are more accurate (yet slower) than f/5.6. Thus, in the case of the 6D, it has the ability to be more accurate if you have a f/2.8 lens, but also act as a cross-type lens if you have a f/5.6 lens.


----------



## Kmccarthy (Sep 18, 2012)

Don Haines said:


> So you are a rebel shooter looking to upgrade.....
> 
> The 6D has more megapixels than a rebel. We can debate until the cows come home if that is a good thing or not, but the fact remains that more megapixels sell. Look at all the higher end users champing at the bit waiting for Canon to put out a 40+ Megapixel camera..... kind of proves the point.
> 
> ...



The problem is that the 6D does not seem much better than the 4 year old 5D II, yet it costs more. On the other hand, the Nikon D600 beats it in every way and would probably give the 5DIII a run for its money for $1500 less. It has built-in flash, better AF, higher megapixels, MFA, headphone jack, and dual SD slots. I'm sure the 6D will be a fine camera and will take great pictures. Unfortunately, it just doesn't make much sense from a strategic perspective in a competitive market environment. But hey, thats life. The same thing happened to Nikon when Canon released the 5DII. It caught them completely by surprise and catapulted Canon to the lead. Now it's Nikons turn!


----------



## Hillsilly (Sep 18, 2012)

Kmccarthy said:


> ...On the other hand, the Nikon D600 beats it in every way ...



Your points are valid, but apart from the better AF (and it remains to be seen if the 6D is actually "bad"), a wide range of people wouldn't care too much about the rest. Many people prefer external flash units, the MP difference is negligible, and the dual card slots, while handy, isn't a deal breaker for a lot of people.

And the 6D has a lot of positive features that are lacking on the D600 which will appeal to a wide range of people. Personally, I like the idea of the faster max shutter speed, higher ISOs, better low light AF capabilities, built in WiFi and GPS. For someone like myself who takes a lot of photos late in the day, or night time sports, it might be ideal. I'm certainly starting to warm to it and can't wait to read some proper reviews.


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## Daniel Flather (Sep 18, 2012)

It's odd that it does not use CF cards. My 50D used CF cards. For a pro that point is hard to overlook.


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## Stephen Melvin (Sep 18, 2012)

I've finally seen a direct head-to-head comparison between the D600 and the 6D, and it's not as cut-and-dry as some people seem to think it is. In three areas that are very important to me, the 6D actually wins:

1. ISO range. The 6D has two full stops more high ISO settings at the top of the range. Based on my experience with Canon cameras, I expect this difference to show up in real world performance. This is an extremely important feature to me.

2. AF sensitivity. Yes, the 6D has a very disappointing 11 point AF system. It's irritating that Canon clings to these basic AF units. On the other hand, the AF is one stop more sensitive in low light than the state-of-the-art unit in the 1Dx and 5D Mk III, and two stops more sensitive than the AF in the D600. I love to shoot in ridiculously low levels of light, and coupled with the superior high ISO sensitivity, the 6D would seem to have the advantage in low light situations.

For my style of shooting, this is much more important than dynamic range, and Nikon's sensors lose that advantage at high ISO's.

3. Weight. I've been dying for a smaller, lighter FF camera from Canon. The 6D is a full 80 grams lighter than the D600 with the battery installed. This sounds like an awesome walk-around and backup camera. I intend to buy one to back up my 5D Mk III, as its specs are superior to the Mk II's in ways that are very important to me.


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## Stephen Melvin (Sep 18, 2012)

Daniel Flather said:


> It's odd that it does not use CF cards. My 50D used CF cards. For a pro that point is hard to overlook.




CF is obsolete.


----------



## Marine03 (Sep 18, 2012)

I guess I'm one I the few saps who like this camera. Sure I'd like 45 pt AF but for the last 3 years I've been center point only in my 450D. And the high/low iso performance will blow it away. 4.5 fps hmmm could be 5d2 slow but it's not. And. SD cards. Thank you that there will save me 100 or more dollars in new cards. Everyone bent on CF needs go get a life. Plastic body sounds good to me saves weight and plastics are used in guns etc. might take me about a year to save the money but this will be my next body


----------



## rjhigh (Sep 18, 2012)

distant.star said:


> .
> Is this their first digital SLR that doesn't use a prime number?



No. 30d, 40d, 50d, 60d, t2i, t4i. Also rebels in some countries are 500d, 550d, etc...


----------



## Don Haines (Sep 18, 2012)

And the Battery in the 6D is the same battery as:
60D
5D II
5D III
7D

That's pretty good for keeping the same battery usable in different models.


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## Ew (Sep 18, 2012)

Like it or not, this body probably will gain acceptance in the market. 

This is now the top teir consume camera. 

7D 5D 1D line will now be the clear "pro" cameras. 

It not be a surprise if non-photo specific chain stores (eg BestBuy) will cap off their on the shelf line with the 6D. If you know that you need more, you obviously "know more than our sales reps working the floor", and will go elsewhere to actually make the purchase. Why deal with the inventory and customer confusion??


----------



## DonHorne (Sep 18, 2012)

Stephen Melvin said:


> Daniel Flather said:
> 
> 
> > It's odd that it does not use CF cards. My 50D used CF cards. For a pro that point is hard to overlook.
> ...



I hope your wrong otherwise I'll be forced to by large cards. A few years back I tried to change SD cards while wearing gloves and ended up dropping cards in the snow. I'll gladly stick with obsolete CF cards.


----------



## libertyranger (Sep 18, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > ... on the 6d there is *no* cross point at all if you attach a lens with f2.8+ (i.e. fast zooms, most primes). It's no speculation to say that a cross point will provide more reliable af than only horizontal/vertical, no matter what magic you put in the firmware and how dark it can be.
> ...



Okay, I've spent some time researching this tonight, but I'm still not too sure. So how is this cross type AF point on the 6D different from the cross type AF point on the 5DII or T3i?


----------



## Marsu42 (Sep 18, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > ... on the 6d there is *no* cross point at all if you attach a lens with f2.8+ (i.e. fast zooms, most primes). It's no speculation to say that a cross point will provide more reliable af than only horizontal/vertical, no matter what magic you put in the firmware and how dark it can be.
> ...



Ah, thx for the explanation, the Canon spec does not only seem to be a mystery to me - are you sure it is this hybrid af? So does this mean, do you expect the center point af on the 6d to be "better" overall than on the 5d2, or does the hybrid construction (first f2.8, then f5.6 line) slow it down? This really will be the decisive point when people want either a 6d and the added gimmicks or a new/used 5d2.


----------



## libertyranger (Sep 18, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Marsu42 said:
> ...



This is what I'm trying to figure out too. I know with certain EOS bodies (T4i, 7D), when you use a f/2.8 lens you get a dual cross-type point. One of them is an f/5.6 cross point and the other is a diagonal f/2.8 cross type. For the 6D, you don't get the dual, but rather an superimposed high precision f/2.8 vertical sensitive point. I can't seem to find any info. on the net as to whether or not the 5DII had this or if it had both horizontal and vertical lines at f/2.8 when using the appropriate lens.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 18, 2012)

libertyranger said:


> Okay, I've spent some time researching this tonight, but I'm still not too sure. So how is this cross type AF point on the 6D different from the cross type AF point on the 5DII or T3i?



The 5DII and T3i have a center point with one horizontal f/2.8 line and one vertical f/5.6 line - that makes the cross. The f/2.8 line is more accurate, but only works with vertically-oriented features. Worth noting is that all of the 39 cross-type points on the 1DIV are this type, too. for this type point, it's a cross only with an f/2.8 or faster lens (and only half f/2.8-accurate), with an f/4 or slower lens, it's just a single vertical line (although there are f/4 exceptions on the 1-series). 

The 1D X, 5DIII, 7D, 40-60D, and T4i have a dual cross center point - an f/5.6 cross in a '+' shape with and f/2.8 cross in an 'x' superimposed. This point type is fully cross type with any lens down to f/5.6. 

The 6D center point has an f/5.6 cross in a '+' shape with a single f/2.8 horizontal line '-' superimposed. It behaves like the first type (5DII etc.) with an f/2.8 or faster lens, but is better in that it remains cross type down to f/5.6. 

Hope that clarifies.


----------



## Marsu42 (Sep 18, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> The 6D center point has an f/5.6 cross in a '+' shape with a single f/2.8 horizontal line '-' superimposed. It behaves like the first type (5DII etc.) with an f/2.8 or faster lens, but is better in that it remains cross type down to f/5.6.



Thx for the explanation - so at least it's no regression in comparison to the 5d2 after all. Why do you think Canon did this and didn't add a dual cross type sensor - any possible tech reasons like the -3ev sensitivity, except protecting the more expensive 5d3?


----------



## sandymandy (Sep 18, 2012)

The 6D is gonna replace the 7D money-wise in the future. But its a full frame! Big plus! Probably my first fullframe im getting.


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## samirachiko (Sep 18, 2012)

No CF= -10 points
No articulated screen= -15 points
New sensor(???)= -10 points
No built in flash= -5 points
No built in time lapse= -7points
Touchscreen= -20 points 
AF= -30 points
Price= -30 points

Canon 6D final score= -127 points.... 

This reflex is VERY VERY VERY VERY SAAAAAAAD

Canon if you don't know we are in the 2012...
Please see the Nikon D600...... 

I have wasted My time to wait for this (toy) reflex...
You have lost a customer...


----------



## Noink Fanb0i (Sep 18, 2012)

Stephen Melvin said:


> Daniel Flather said:
> 
> 
> > It's odd that it does not use CF cards. My 50D used CF cards. For a pro that point is hard to overlook.
> ...



I keep reading this misinformation. "SD cards are cheap, if you can afford to get the body, surely you can buy a few new memory cards." The problem with that is you lose the interoperability with your existing cards. CF cards would always be faster and have more capacity than SD cards due to the bigger real estate and built-in memory controller. Any advances in memory density that manufacturers can apply to SD cards can also be made to CF cards, the physically bigger area would ensure that it would always have bigger maximum capacity than SD cards. And people keep talking as if most potential upgraders to the 6D were using cameras with SD slots. The Rebel 300D, 350D and 400D all use CF cards. At the very least Canon should have made dual CF & SD slots for a $2000 camera. :


----------



## psolberg (Sep 18, 2012)

Stephen Melvin said:


> I've finally seen a direct head-to-head comparison between the D600 and the 6D, and it's not as cut-and-dry as some people seem to think it is. In three areas that are very important to me, the 6D actually wins:
> 
> 1. ISO range. The 6D has two full stops more high ISO settings at the top of the range. Based on my experience with Canon cameras, I expect this difference to show up in real world performance. This is an extremely important feature to me.
> 
> ...



I'm glad some find it good. I suspect the extra ISO stops to be useless for any practical purpose as they often are when the boundaries are pushed just so they can print it on a marketing ad. More likely both cameras will be identical and unless canon resolved its banding noise issues at low ISO, image quality will be practically a non differentiator. As others have said, the one point being extra sensitive remains to be seen how good it actually is but overall the AF system is likely inferior as 1 point won't offset the loss of every cross point besides it. It also can't focus with f/8 minimum aperture lenses so the TC story for this camera is as bad as the new ones.

ultimately there is one definitive thing canon can do to make it better and that is to make it cheaper since it is unlikely to capitalize enough in the few areas that it can as far as specifications go.

price it at 1500 dollars and I'll get one no matter how bad it is.


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## PerfectSavage (Sep 18, 2012)

dswatson83 said:


> This is ridiculous what Canon has done. I have been looking to update my 7D and was really disappointed at the price of the 5DIII. When I saw rumors of the 6D I thought my prayers would be answered and I would get a full frame 7D! This camera is ridiculous. It is a full frame 60D. Maybe this could be a backup camera or something but that is it. I doubt a ton of people want a full frame 60D and are willing to pay $2100 for it.
> I am so pissed at Canon right now for crippling this so much (and why include wifi & gps?). They could have priced this for $1800 without those or have put in a worthwhile focus system instead. And not even a dual SD card slot????? Ridiculous Canon. Also, i'm pissed at Canon's new extreme pricing, and for making almost no improvements in the last 4 years in video. Even their recent lenses were disappointing, not in performance, but in usability. Who wants a f/2.8 24mm & 28mm prime and why put IS in that and not in the 24-70 f/2.8? Its obvious Canon knew no one would buy the 24 & 28mm lenses if the 24-70 had IS at f/2.8, even if it was $2,500.
> 
> The 6D is not a worthy upgrade for 7D users for sure so now the decision is to save up for the 5DIII or switch to Nikon where the D800 & D600, while not perfect, have alot to offer. I could easily get away with the D600 as a main camera and be very happy where the Canon 6D would even be disappointing as a backup. My only full frame capable lens is the 70-200 f/2.8 II and that is probably easy to sell.



No one other than those with the whims expressed on these message boards ever claimed it was an upgrade, let alone "replacement" for a 7D. The 7D2 will be the upgrade to the 7D and it will not be FF, it will probably be a new APS-C sensor with better ISO/IQ like the 6D's sensor is a new FF one and also have some improved AF around speed/sports etc. In fact, Canon's global Japan site places the 6D *BEHIND* the 7D in it's pecking order...check it out...1D series, 5D, 7D and THEN 6D....then 60D. *http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd-e.html*

The 6D is an "enthusiast" camera as Canon has clearly stated repeatedly in every announcement and marketing piece globally...a FF 60D basically with much better ISO/IQ. Haven't had my hands on one obviously but the specs look like the build quality is inferior to the 7D/5D as well, no real mention of weather sealing levels and it is not a 100% magnesium alloy body, mostly aluminum to decrease weight. It's not a pro camera, never intended to be one. Everyone seemed to want a "FF 7D" well, they have one already, it came out this past spring and it's called the 5D Mark III. 

The 6D is an enthusiast camera to provide an option for those looking to move up from the x0D series or even Rebel that want a FF option but don't want to spend $4K nor need all the pro capabilities. It is an EXCELLENT option to the 7D for those shooting landscape, portraiture etc that don't have kids or photography sports and action. It is also a great option as a B or C cam for event photographers etc. that want to park a portrait prime on it. Why pay for a 5D3 for a B/C cam when you can buy a great piece of glass (or even two lenses) with the difference? For event photographers shooting a 1D series or 5D II/III as primary body, they would prefer the 6D and the new 24-70 L II (or other new glass) to a 5D III and no new glass as their B or C camera option, I assure you.

The 6D will sell...*a LOT*. It's just like when the 7D was launched to give those moving up from a Rebel to the x0D series another option in 2009... "7D or 50D?? Hmmm...if I buy the 50D will I wish I'd bought the 7D in six months?" Now those looking to move up from an x0D have another option other than a $4K camera in the 5D3 or even a choice of whether a 6D is better for their uses than a 7D...and those multi-body shooters have a much easier path to that second, third or fifth body they've been needing but have done without due to budget.

The 5D3 will be closer to $3K by end of year...watch. My guess is the LIST price (forget the recent Adorama mistake or one-off drama on eBay) of the 5D3 will be $2,999 by the holidays...maybe cheaper if they drop the 6D down to $1,999 etc.


----------



## emag (Sep 18, 2012)

No MFA? Not a killer, but......


----------



## preppyak (Sep 18, 2012)

emag said:


> No MFA? Not a killer, but......


It has AFMA, the same set-up as the 5dIII. Its adjustable on both the wide and tele end of a zoom


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## libertyranger (Sep 18, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> libertyranger said:
> 
> 
> > Okay, I've spent some time researching this tonight, but I'm still not too sure. So how is this cross type AF point on the 6D different from the cross type AF point on the 5DII or T3i?
> ...



Thank you! This clarifies it perfectly!


----------



## NormanBates (Sep 18, 2012)

emag said:


> No MFA? Not a killer, but......



dpreview says: "The EOS 6D does, however offer the same AF microadjust as the 5D Mark III. Adjustments can be made separately for the wide and telephoto ends of zoom lenses, and can also be made per serial-numbered lens (should you have two copies of the same lens that require differing amounts of adjustment)."

http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-6d/3


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## samirachiko (Sep 18, 2012)

PerfectSavage said:


> The 6D will sell...*a LOT*. It's just like when the 7D was launched to give those moving up from a Rebel to the x0D series another option in 2009... "7D or 50D?? Hmmm...if I buy the 50D will I wish I'd bought the 7D in six months?"



The 6D Will sell a lot????? HAHAHAHA............ At the same Price you can have something very very very BETTER: Nikon D600! I always loved Canon.... In the 2012 a product like that with that features and with that price is VERY VERY RIDICULOUS. See what the D600 have more for the same price! 



You can't compare what happen with 7D: it's ridicolous!!.....


----------



## RLPhoto (Sep 18, 2012)

The biggest disaapointment is the Ergos on this camera.

WHY CANON!? WHY DID YOU GO BACK TO THE 60D LAYOUT! Why!.......

No Mulit selector, Funny thumb dial with d-pad. ERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!

I see a second 5D2 or 5D3 in my future.


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## crasher8 (Sep 18, 2012)

Great time to buy the switchers Canon glass on KEH, Ebay and Craigslist.


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## Marsu42 (Sep 18, 2012)

PerfectSavage said:


> In fact, Canon's global Japan site places the 6D *BEHIND* the 7D in it's pecking order...check it out...1D series, 5D, 7D and THEN 6D....then 60D. *http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd-e.html*



This probably means that you will get less cps points (US) or only cps silver (Europe) for the 6d as its not "professional". But this is mostly marketing and doesn't necessarily mean the 6d is worse than 7d/5d2.


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## bk-productions (Sep 19, 2012)

Not the best specs for photography, but it could be a great backup for my 5Dmk3 for filming


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## emag (Sep 19, 2012)

NormanBates said:


> emag said:
> 
> 
> > No MFA? Not a killer, but......
> ...



I sit corrected and hanging my head like a doofus for reacting prior to having read everything. Good news!


----------



## JBL (Sep 19, 2012)

SwampYankee said:


> brianleighty said:
> 
> 
> > SwampYankee said:
> ...



It was certainly there, that's how I got mine. Try signing up for e-mail notification. I got emailed it 11:02 am, and when I went to the ebay page only 1 was sold. It was linked off the usual 5D3 page.


----------



## PerfectSavage (Sep 20, 2012)

samirachiko said:


> PerfectSavage said:
> 
> 
> > The 6D will sell...*a LOT*. It's just like when the 7D was launched to give those moving up from a Rebel to the x0D series another option in 2009... "7D or 50D?? Hmmm...if I buy the 50D will I wish I'd bought the 7D in six months?"
> ...



How old are you? 15? Event shooters with multiple Canon bodies don't even look at Nikon and vice versa. What is so "very very very BETTER" about the D600 grasshopper? It is still a Nikon after all, no? 

...and it's exactly like the 7D launch, 60D launch and even 1Dc launch... in that it's another option to choose from... having more choices is always "very very very BETTER".


----------



## PerfectSavage (Sep 20, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> PerfectSavage said:
> 
> 
> > In fact, Canon's global Japan site places the 6D *BEHIND* the 7D in it's pecking order...check it out...1D series, 5D, 7D and THEN 6D....then 60D. *http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd-e.html*
> ...



I'm not familiar with CPS specifics, but I agree, there is no "better/worse"...I think it's just organized by intended market, build quality...the 6D is only a partial alloy body, mostly aluminum and exterior is plastic and rubber like the 60D but a bit more ergonomic by the hands-ons I've read. Canon calls it an "enthusiast" camera and the 7D a "prosumer" (even though clearly it's a pro APS-C camera, build is better than 5D2).


----------



## Marsu42 (Sep 20, 2012)

... just came across a picture that instantly condensed my thoughts about the 6d


----------



## Danielle (Sep 20, 2012)

I can see some uses for it however. For starters, table top stuff in studio's where multi cross type sensors won't give a lot of benefit anyway, or for just the casual weekend enthusiast who wants particularly decent IQ.

However for myself and obviously many many others, this is just... well... *insert expletives* Looks like Canon don't mind if Nikon kicks them in the guts this time around. Can't believe it only has one cross type focus point. Wow. Yes, this should have been under $2k to be more viable.

I guess those who are interested in the 5D2 should snap them fast in case they are very soon discontinued. Save a few dollars perhaps too.

Why didn't they call it an 8D? Weird.


----------



## NormanBates (Sep 20, 2012)

Danielle said:


> Why didn't they call it an 8D?


Indeed. Unless they plan it to sit on top of the 7D2 (that is, unless they plan the 7D2 to suck even more than this).

edit: forget it, now I'm just being mean; sorry


----------



## albron00 (Sep 20, 2012)

Well, two years later we're gonna have 6Dm2 with multi-cross focus points.


----------



## caruser (Sep 20, 2012)

albron00 said:


> Well, two years later we're gonna have 6Dm2 with multi-cross focus points.



Am I not the only who would prefer a DSLR with e.g. 7 dual-cross type AF-points over one with 1 dual-cross and 42 or so f/5.6 lines?


----------



## brianleighty (Sep 20, 2012)

psolberg said:


> I'm glad some find it good. I suspect the extra ISO stops to be useless for any practical purpose as they often are when the boundaries are pushed just so they can print it on a marketing ad. More likely both cameras will be identical and unless canon resolved its banding noise issues at low ISO, image quality will be practically a non differentiator. As others have said, the one point being extra sensitive remains to be seen how good it actually is but overall the AF system is likely inferior as 1 point won't offset the loss of every cross point besides it. It also can't focus with f/8 minimum aperture lenses so the TC story for this camera is as bad as the new ones.
> 
> ultimately there is one definitive thing canon can do to make it better and that is to make it cheaper since it is unlikely to capitalize enough in the few areas that it can as far as specifications go.
> 
> price it at 1500 dollars and I'll get one no matter how bad it is.



If the example video Canon has up for Deep Green or whatever it's called is any example, then it should have pretty good ISO as they had several shots at 12800 that looked very good.


----------



## meli (Sep 20, 2012)

PerfectSavage said:


> samirachiko said:
> 
> 
> > PerfectSavage said:
> ...



first signs in are not that positive though, according to amazon list 6D is currently @ #14 below 60d, a bunch of rebels & dxxxxs, both body & kit D600s and D800. Not very promising for an entry level enthusiast camera...


----------



## meli (Sep 20, 2012)

albron00 said:


> Well, two years later we're gonna have 6Dm2 with multi-cross focus points.



Yes but with the same sensor, cause Canon heard the people and the people only wanted a new AF ;D


----------



## dswatson83 (Sep 20, 2012)

caruser said:


> Am I not the only who would prefer a DSLR with e.g. 7 dual-cross type AF-points over one with 1 dual-cross and 42 or so f/5.6 lines?


Nope, on my 5D3, I only turn on cross type. Don't even bother with non cross type points. Maybe for tracking a subject moving across the frame if you don't care about the composition you would want more, but I always follow my subject with the camera to keep the composition the same. And please keep the points further apart. I know the 6D only has 1 cross type, but with the Nikon D600, all the cross type points are located so close together, I don't know that it helps having 9


----------



## PerfectSavage (Sep 25, 2012)

meli said:


> PerfectSavage said:
> 
> 
> > samirachiko said:
> ...



well, perhaps we should wait until it is actually in stores and available...or production versions have been tested and those tests published... not too many enthusiasts or pros are going to pre-order a 2K camera unseen and untested....not that Amazon is the right litmus test anyway. The 7D took about six months to gain traction after it's announcement.


----------



## xps (Sep 25, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> ... just came across a picture that instantly condensed my thoughts about the 6d


+++1000


----------



## xps (Sep 25, 2012)

dilbert said:


> crasher8 said:
> 
> 
> > Great time to buy the switchers Canon glass on KEH, Ebay and Craigslist.
> ...



Good idea! But which zoom up to 400mm with IS for the D600 or D800?


----------



## verysimplejason (Feb 15, 2013)

I was looking at some old reactions for 6D. I was surprised that some of the people bashing 6D are the same ones praising it or at least giving it some credibility nowadays.  ;D


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## Marsu42 (Feb 15, 2013)

verysimplejason said:


> I was looking at some old reactions for 6D. I was surprised that some of the people bashing 6D are the same ones praising it or at least giving it some credibility nowadays.  ;D



Even if repeating myself: Imho it all depends on the price, because with the 6d you're basically buying good iq (well, and wlan/wifi if you need it). So "just" good iq for €2100: no, but "budget" good iq for @1500: yes.


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## Hobby Shooter (Feb 15, 2013)

verysimplejason said:


> I was looking at some old reactions for 6D. I was surprised that some of the people bashing 6D are the same ones praising it or at least giving it some credibility nowadays.  ;D


And some are still persistent in their dislike about it.


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## bholliman (Feb 15, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> Even if repeating myself: Imho it all depends on the price, because with the 6d you're basically buying good iq (well, and wlan/wifi if you need it). So "just" good iq for €2100: no, but "budget" good iq for @1500: yes.


6D IQ = 5D3 IQ. Both have better than "good" IQ in my opinion.
With the 6D you settle for a less robust AF system, no second memory card, etc. to save roughly $1,000. For me and many others that's a good trade off.


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## Marsu42 (Feb 16, 2013)

bholliman said:


> With the 6D you settle for a less robust AF system, no second memory card, etc. to save roughly $1,000. For me and many others that's a good trade off.



Fyi: I'll buy a 6d, too, so it's not like I'm opposed to it. It's just that I don't expect to be able to take very different shot swith the 6d vs. my current 60d, actually I'm loosing af flexibility and reach but am gaining high iso iq.

With the 5d3 af, I'd be able take completely other shots where my 60d af simply fails - so the 5d3 doesn't have a more "robust" af system, but a really different level. I think it's currently wiser to invest the 6d/5d3 difference into filters, lighting gear and other accessories that won't loose value.


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## eninja (Feb 21, 2013)

I also got a 6D. I am an amateur.
I only like good IQ and depth of field only full frame can give.

With Canon, I get these bonuses: good low light, lighter, and I like the body lay out more.
What could I ask more.


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