# Digitalrev speculates on D7100 vs. 7D2



## ahsanford (May 27, 2013)

No hard references that I can see, but here is an amusing look into the 7D2's possible future:

http://www.digitalrev.com/article/nikon-d7100-vs-canon-eos/ODkzMjU3Mzc_A

I still am firmly in the camp that the 7D2 is (a) absolutely going to be aimed at pros (for birders, sports guys, etc.) and (b) is absolutely going to cost more than the 6D. I also am strongly leaning towards (though not prepared to guarantee) that the great 1Dx/5D3 AF system is coming to the 7D2, and Digitalrev would seem to agree. Then again, my postings on this forum may be the basis of DR's 'rumors'. 

But it is all speculation at this point. Here's the latest dollop on our collective plates.

- A


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## adhocphotographer (May 27, 2013)

I would guess the 7D II would be priced close to the 6D.... so you have to choose between FF or features/speed. if you want both you need a 1DX, which is the pro camera.

Only time will tell... I'm just glad a got me a 5D mkiii and am not still waiting for this mythical beast!


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## Gino (May 27, 2013)

If the 7D MKII will have a crop sensor, I do not understand how the camera will have as good of high ISO performance as the full frame 5D MKIII. 

Does anyone think the speculation of the 7D MKII high ISO performance is based on the in camera jpeg processing, or are they actually talking about the RAW files?

Thanks


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## FTb-n (May 27, 2013)

I would expect high ISO raw files to be cleaner than the 7D, but not near 5D3 levels -- maybe cut the difference in half.

But, I would agree that the advertised high ISO improvement would bw with the JPEG processing. If they simply replaced the two DIGIC 4's with one or two DIGIC 5+ processors, we should see a full stop improvement in cleaner JPEG processing. 

Ultimately, I'm hoping the wait has been for a reason and will be worthwhile. Canon must know that 7D users want cleaner high ISO images more than a higher megapixel sensor or even faster FPS. So I'm optimistice that they have been spending this time developing a new sensor.

Still, I went for the 5D3 a few months ago and I'm waiting for another Canon refurb sale to pick up a second body (hopefully, this fall). Admittedly, I don't want the 7D2 to come close to matching the 5D3 high ISO IQ. If I invest in the second 5D3 body, I don't want to be tempted into investing in a 7D2 body next year. 

Which could be another reason why Canon is waiting until next year for the introduction. If the 7D2 is close to the 5D3 in IQ, give the 5D3 two years of sales, then temp 5D3 owners with a cheaper alternative to the 1Dx. I won't go back to crop unless the IQ improves significantly -- regardles of the FPS.


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## sanj (May 27, 2013)

Gino said:


> If the 7D MKII will have a crop sensor, I do not understand how the camera will have as good of high ISO performance as the full frame 5D MKIII.
> 
> Does anyone think the speculation of the 7D MKII high ISO performance is based on the in camera jpeg processing, or are they actually talking about the RAW files?
> 
> Thanks



+1. I doubt they talking about RAW.


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## viggen61 (May 27, 2013)

ahsanford said:


> I still am firmly in the camp that the 7D2 is (a) absolutely going to be aimed at pros (for birders, sports guys, etc.) and (b) is absolutely going to cost more than the 6D. I also am strongly leaning towards (though not prepared to guarantee) that the great 1Dx/5D3 AF system is coming to the 7D2, and Digitalrev would seem to agree. Then again, my postings on this forum may be the basis of DR's 'rumors'.
> 
> But it is all speculation at this point. Here's the latest dollop on our collective plates.
> 
> - A


I agree on a & b, and am very hopeful on the AF.

As for the high ISO/low light performance, I'm thinking/hoping Canon has something up their sleeve. 

Consider: 

Canon is rumored to be working on a "Big Megapixel" FF camera, that is presumed to be around 46 MP...
Canon couldn't/wouldn't release a FF camera that had "only" 7D high ISO/low light performance, "Big MP" or not...
The pixel density of an 18MP APS-C sensor works out to be almost exactly the pixel density needed to cram 46MP onto a FF sensor...


It would seem to me that, if Canon can make the "Big MP" FF camera work well in low light at high iSO, it's a no brainer to do the same thing for a 7DII by cropping the sensor & selling many more cameras. And by "work well in low light", I don't necessarily mean to the same level of a 1DX or 5DIII, but getting there...

Five or six years back, wouldn't it have been "impossible" for the 7D to offer the high ISO/low light performance that it does today? All we can be sure of is that the technology will keep getting better...


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## pierlux (May 27, 2013)

ahsanford said:


> I still am firmly in the camp that the 7D2 is (a) absolutely going to be aimed at pros (for birders, sports guys, etc.) and (b) is absolutely going to cost more than the 6D.



I'm in your same camp! 

But I don't understand why they name the Digic V, if the 7D2 is going to be a 2014 cam it'll have Digic VI for sure. And a crazy droolworthy 12-14 fps, hopefully , for merely $ 2.5K  , take it or leave it! Or, take the 70D...


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## Dylan777 (May 27, 2013)

Gino said:


> If the 7D MKII will have a crop sensor, I do not understand how the camera will have as good of high ISO performance as the full frame 5D MKIII.
> 
> Does anyone think the speculation of the 7D MKII high ISO performance is based on the in camera jpeg processing, or are they actually talking about the RAW files?
> 
> Thanks



That will never happen. WHY? - You can't hold 1 gallon of water in 1/2 gallon bucket.


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## Rienzphotoz (May 27, 2013)

Dylan777 said:


> Gino said:
> 
> 
> > If the 7D MKII will have a crop sensor, I do not understand how the camera will have as good of high ISO performance as the full frame 5D MKIII.
> ...


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## jrista (May 27, 2013)

ankorwatt said:


> sanj said:
> 
> 
> > Gino said:
> ...



Ankor, I have to ask. What, exactly, is your goal with the continual barrage of Canon hate and negativity about prospective Canon cameras? You've been here for over a year, originally as Mikael, now as Ankorwatt (I presume for as long as that account is not banned), and you are STILL spouting the same old bullhonkey. So I ask...*WHY?*

You _seem_ to be trying to prove to everyone here that, based on past technology, Canon is therefor INCAPABLE of producing a good camera. You _seem_ to be trying to prove to everyone here that, based on past technology, Canon will _never_ produce a comparable product to any other brand, ever again, period... 

Simple fact of the matter is, one, you'll never convince anyone; two, you are fundamentally incorrect that Canon (or any company, for that matter) cannot muster up their competitive spirit, resolve their technological inferiorities, and produce competitive or superior products *in the future*. 

Have you ever heard of the saying: *Prior performance is in no way a prediction of future performance?*

You *cannot* come in to a CANON forum dedicated to RUMORS and SPECULATION, continually dash everyone's HOPES and beat down their speculative fun and rumormongering, and expect to get even one MINUTE FRACTION OF AN OUNCE of respect in return. Your a loathsome freaking disease on these forums. You need to either SHUT UP about Canon inferiority, contribute positively to the topics at hand, or just plain LEAVE. There is no longer any reason to continue spouting your same old trollish CRAP all over the place. The horse is dead. It's not only dead, it's not only beaten to a pulp...*there is no longer even one cell left of the frackin horse to beat anymore!* It's one thing to correct basic facts when someone gets it wrong, it is another to _endlessly _parade your tired old tirade of the _same old canon hate_ in _every single thread_ that crops up! It's SO freaking OLD, really freaking ANNOYING, and not convincing ANYONE. *Please...go away!*


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## x-vision (May 27, 2013)

Gino said:


> If the 7D MKII will have a crop sensor, I do not understand how the camera will have as good of high ISO performance as the full frame 5D MKIII.



The 5DIII is made on Canon's current CMOS manufacturing process - which is quite ancient and is well overdue for replacement. 

The hope is that the 7DII sensor will be manufactured on a new manufacturing process.

If that's the case, the 7DII sensor will likely perform the same (or even better) than the 5DIII sensor. 
Of course Canon will eventually make FF sensors on the new manufacturing process and FF will again pull ahead in performance.


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## wickidwombat (May 28, 2013)

if the specs are true i'd be interested if IQ was as good as a 1Dmk4

however I would prefer a CF and Sd card slot rather than 2 SD
also IQ from a 24MP 1.6 crop sensor is gonna be the key to this being good or not
there is a lot of improving to be done over the current 18MP line and with a 33% jump in pixels
not sure how they are gonna get on top of the noise issues.


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## RGF (May 28, 2013)

ankorwatt said:


> I thought we could discuss the pros and cons of our canon cameras.
> If a chart explains how the sensor development has been the past 10 years , is that not interesting to know?
> We have different views on what might be interesting or not and both are we using Canon.



If the chart the only factor that Canon develops to? Is DxO the absolute truth in IQ and what sells in the marketplace? Both Canon and Nikon make trade offs when developing a new camera (or camera line). They have their reasons, which us mare (spelling?) mortals will never know. If you great to part of their marketing team, but I don't foresee that in my future.


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## garyknrd (May 28, 2013)

IMO the 7DII will never make it to market.


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## Dylan777 (May 28, 2013)

x-vision said:


> Gino said:
> 
> 
> > If the 7D MKII will have a crop sensor, I do not understand how the camera will have as good of high ISO performance as the full frame 5D MKIII.
> ...



If that is the case, what do you think happen to current 5D III? You think Canon going to let that happen?


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## dlleno (May 28, 2013)

as long as we're speculating...

I expect 2014 will be all about moving the MP count. If Canon produces a superior sensor in 2014 I would expect them to figure out a way to hide its ISO and DR capabillties with the increased pixel density (or even other mfg things) so that the 2014 bodies will not steal any revenue from the 5D3 and 1DX. that means we're not likely to see a 7D2 with better IQ or AF than the 5D3 or with a fps approaching the 1DX. We will see high MP bodies that will see alot of tripod use: If Neuro is right one might be a 6D-like body. I'd expect the other to be a 1 series. But in any case I can't imagine 2014 will see any new FF sports or wedding/event bodies. 

When the 5D3 and 1DX have run their revenue course, Canon will introduce sensor tweeks and show another "completely new sensor" which will be an incremental improvement over the 2014 bodies. the 5D4 and 1DX mark II will then set new records for medium pixel count, speed, ISO, DR, AF performance etc in 2015 or 2016.


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## RLPhoto (May 28, 2013)

The 7DII is going to be an evolution of a near perfect camera.


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## zim (May 28, 2013)

24 MP/10fps/2x SD/SDHC/SDXC

That just doesn't sound quite right to me but if it is then it must surely signal the end of CF cards in all future EOS DSLRs?


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## ishdakuteb (May 28, 2013)

ankorwatt said:


> I thought we could discuss the pros and cons of our canon cameras.
> If a chart explains how the sensor development has been the past 10 years , is that not interesting to know?
> We have different views on what might be interesting or not and both are we using Canon.



well.. the chart explains whatever in the past 10 years, but comparing your photography techiques that you have earned for more than 30 years but shooting like CRAP... would i believe WHAT YOU HAVE BEEN SAYING IN HERE, THIS FORUM? NO... in addition, changing gears is not a good choice... improving techniques and skills are good choices...

your more than 30 years of techniques to me is nothing... to me... after 6 months of holding a camera, i am shooting much much better than you from composition to exposure...


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## dlleno (May 28, 2013)

RLPhoto said:


> The 7DII is going to be an evolution of a near perfect camera.



Yes, one that won't matter!


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## RLPhoto (May 28, 2013)

dlleno said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > The 7DII is going to be an evolution of a near perfect camera.
> ...



To many people.


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## wickidwombat (May 29, 2013)

oh boy alot of hopes and dreams riding on the 7D2
better stock up on tissues people cause there will be plenty of tears...


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## AG (May 29, 2013)

Im still of the opinion that they should just take the 1DX and stick a crop sensor in there instead of a Full Frame and then sell that as a 7D2. 

Then what will they complain about? it's too big?

It can be the pinnacle of Crop cameras and at the same time could mean the xxD range actually could get some relevance again, its currently a small jump from Rebel/SL1 to xxD and then a large jump to the current 7D in terms of specs, even given its age.

Hopefully Canon go all out this time.


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## garyknrd (May 29, 2013)

dlleno said:


> as long as we're speculating...
> 
> I expect 2014 will be all about moving the MP count. If Canon produces a superior sensor in 2014 I would expect them to figure out a way to hide its ISO and DR capabillties with the increased pixel density (or even other mfg things) so that the 2014 bodies will not steal any revenue from the 5D3 and 1DX. that means we're not likely to see a 7D2 with better IQ or AF than the 5D3 or with a fps approaching the 1DX. We will see high MP bodies that will see alot of tripod use: If Neuro is right one might be a 6D-like body. I'd expect the other to be a 1 series. But in any case I can't imagine 2014 will see any new FF sports or wedding/event bodies.
> 
> When the 5D3 and 1DX have run their revenue course, Canon will introduce sensor tweeks and show another "completely new sensor" which will be an incremental improvement over the 2014 bodies. the 5D4 and 1DX mark II will then set new records for medium pixel count, speed, ISO, DR, AF performance etc in 2015 or 2016.



+1, that is pretty much how I see things also. Actually I am putting money back for the 1DX II right now. Was going to get the 1DX, when the next model was announced but think the 1DX II will be a good birding camera for me. I personally do not see a serious threat to the Mark IV that I have now ( as a birder only ). And do not want a 1DX. But the new 2015-2016 1D series FF will probably be to my liking with higher MP count. Wait and see now. And enjoy shooting with what I have.
For me only! There is nothing out there Canon makes I want ( for birding ). So I am in a holding pattern.


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## Don Haines (May 29, 2013)

Dylan777 said:


> x-vision said:
> 
> 
> > Gino said:
> ...



A new technology has to be introduced somewhere. Since sales of lower end cameras far exceed that of higher end cameras, it would make sense that a new technology gets introduced into the lower end cameras first.... like the 6D which has GPS, touchscreen, and a lower light central focus point than the 5D3...

It is almost certain that this new technology will outperform the old process.... by how much remains to be seen... perhaps even approaching the sensitivity of the 5D3. It is also almost certain that this new camera will outperform the 5D3 live-view focus.... 

What does this mean for the 5D3? Nothing! People who want FF are not going to trade in a 5D3 for a crop camera, just like those who wish a crop camera are not going to go FF.... there is a market for both. What it does mean is that a 5D4 will probably use this new technology and you can expect the 5D4 to be better than the 5D3 like a 7D2 outperforms a 7D.


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## dlleno (May 29, 2013)

wickidwombat said:


> oh boy alot of hopes and dreams riding on the 7D2
> better stock up on tissues people cause there will be plenty of tears...



maybe so. it looks like we can expect a nice feature list, but as for the sensor and native IQ I personally expect only a stop or so of improvement, in native ISO performance. As for fps, I personally don't think Canon would allow the 7D2 to match the 1DX in fps, but 10 is plausible, to be sure. 

oh, and for those speculating on the price, Canon did say (if memory serves) that it would be a mid-range body or some similar expression. do the math: half way between rebel and 1DX comes in above the 6D... So it does look like Canon will be pushing the crop envelope. 

As for the sensor, lets assume "new process". The 7D2 implimentation will be at the bleeding edge, i.e. technology at its infancy. Sure, a stop of improvement is plausible, over the 7D, perhaps even with an increase in pixel count, but it will still be demonstrably inferior to the 5D3 and 1DX in terms of ISO and noise. Where is the evidence to the contrary? It will be due to mfg or imposed limitations because Canon isn't going to let a crop body outrun a current FF body in the area of DR, noise, and ISO. just an opinion of course. They have 1DX and 5D3 revenue to protect, after all and I don't think these bodies will get refreshed until 2015 at the soonest. I mean I hope a 5D4 comes next year, but that really seems unlikely, as in ridiculously implausible. 

So on the "good" side I'd say we can expect the 7D2 to produce slightly better IQ in distance limited situations, compared to a cropped 5D3, due to "more pixels on the duck". This will restore the credibility of the crop body for budget birders and for the 2nd body. It will have an awesome jpg engine. On the "tears" side I think those expecting the 7D2 IQ/Noise/ISO performace to rival that of the 5D3 will be shedding the most tears. initially, the press release will make it sound that good, but when folks discover that the improvement lies in the jpg engine and not native RAW performance, they will be dissapointed. 

on edit: what isn't included in the avove is market pressure to lead in the crop space. I don't know how that will influence the 7D2, but it will be really fascinating to see if we have a show much like the 5D3/D800


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## Don Haines (May 29, 2013)

RGF said:


> ankorwatt said:
> 
> 
> > I thought we could discuss the pros and cons of our canon cameras.
> ...



Plus, there is a lot more to a camera than just a sensor. There is the glass, the user interface and controls layout, the AF system, etc etc etc. It is very misleading to focus on just one aspect when it is the interactions of complex systems and differing needs that makes a camera good or bad for each user.


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## Dylan777 (May 29, 2013)

Don Haines said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > x-vision said:
> ...



Keep in mind 7D was designed for speed, not so much high ISO. I can see 7D II might have 61pts AF like 5D III and an increase in frame rate(maybe 10-fps). BUT NOT IN HIGH ISO or LOW LIGHT like 5D III, regardless what the new sensor might be. 

Canon will not put 7D II in near 5D III in term of high ISO/LOW LIGHT. 5D III is only 1yr old plus, it still have another 3-4yrs more before we seeing any rumors 5D 4.

Keep in mind, the original debate was high ISO - not DR or others features etc....


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## x-vision (May 29, 2013)

Don Haines said:


> What does this mean for the 5D3? Nothing! People who want FF are not going to trade in a 5D3 for a crop camera ....



Exactly. 

Also, despite some of the rumors here, I don't think the 7DII will get the 61-point AF system of the 5D3/1DX.
So, the AF system will be another differentiation from the 5DIII.

Btw, for the 7DII AF system I'm expecting either a beefed-up version of the current 19-point AF (e.g. with better sensitivity to low light) or a maybe new AF system, which would still be a step below Canon's pro AF system.

But we are definitely not getting Canon's pro AF system in a $2K camera. That's for sure. 
You know Canon 8).


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## x-vision (May 29, 2013)

Dylan777 said:


> Keep in mind 7D was designed for speed, not so much high ISO. I can see 7D II might have 61pts AF like 5D III and an increase in frame rate(maybe 10-fps). BUT NOT IN HIGH ISO or LOW LIGHT like 5D III, regardless what the new sensor might be.



Just the opposite, IMO. 
It's much more likely that we'll see a big step up in image quality than a big step in features.
See my previous post.



> Canon will not put 7D II in near 5D III in term of high ISO/LOW LIGHT. 5D III is only 1yr old plus, it still have another 3-4yrs more before we seeing any rumors 5D 4.



I disagree. 

The 5DIII needs to differentiate itself much better from both the 6D and the 7DII.
And the only way it can do that is by getting a high-quality ~30MP sensor.

So, I'm actually expecting that the 5DIII will get a replacement sooner than many expect.
Maybe as early as the spring of 2015.


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## Dylan777 (May 29, 2013)

x-vision said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > Keep in mind 7D was designed for speed, not so much high ISO. I can see 7D II might have 61pts AF like 5D III and an increase in frame rate(maybe 10-fps). BUT NOT IN HIGH ISO or LOW LIGHT like 5D III, regardless what the new sensor might be.
> ...



I'll put my 25cents on the line that 7D II will not out perform 5D III in high ISO/low light.

Even Fuji & Sony are not capable to have their crop sensor out performs 5D III FF sensor yet.


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## x-vision (May 29, 2013)

Dylan777 said:


> I'll put my 25cents on the line that 7D II will not out perform 5D III in high ISO/low light.



OK, outperforming might be a stretch. But being quite close is not unrealistic ... at all.

If you compare Nikon's D7100 with the 5D*II* (not III) on DxO, you will see that they are very close in every measurement.
The 7DII needs to be only slightly better than the D7100 and it will be in 5DII territory wrt image quality - which in turn is quite close to the 5DIII.

And honestly, if the 7DII is not at least slightly better than the D7100 in image quality, Canon shouldn't bother with an update, thank you very much 8).


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## ishdakuteb (May 29, 2013)

x-vision said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > I'll put my 25cents on the line that 7D II will not out perform 5D III in high ISO/low light.
> ...



according to what i have known, iso improvement only about a stop or less on every single time new canon release a new model (i am talking about raw file, not jpeg file)


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## dlleno (May 29, 2013)

ishdakuteb said:


> x-vision said:
> 
> 
> > Dylan777 said:
> ...



yes; but past peformance is no guarentee of future results  as they say. I think the reason folks are hoping for more than one stop is due to the Allure of Canon's "new mfg process" and the assumption that this will pace or even eclipse the competition in sensor technology. This leads to a fair amount of salivating that the 7D2 will be so good that it will approach or even outrun the 5D3 IQ, leading to further salivating that the 5D4 will come soon after the 7D2


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## neuroanatomist (May 29, 2013)

ankorwatt said:


> If Canon shall compete they must increase the QE up to Sony ,Toshibas level and bring down the read out noise, nothing you do easily with Canon current sensor architecture.



Must they? If you mean, compete in terms of _sensor_ performance, certainly. But as has been stated many times, Canon and Nikon sell *cameras*, not naked sensors. The D7000 has a better sensor than the 7D, but the 7D sold rings around the D7000. I don't expect the D7100 vs. 7DII story to be any different.


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## neuroanatomist (May 29, 2013)

ankorwatt said:


> aha , you are talking sales, and Im talking about QE , be in front of research, colors, DR, noise, etc , you have all parameters at DXO sensor ranking. If you are tourist shooting you can buy a good compact camera, why bother about a SLR at all ?.
> Toyota sales most cars in the world, Im not driving a Toyota but many are.I think there are better cars
> How about you?



No, I'm talking *cameras*. Shutter lag, AF performance, frame rate...things that help make sure the image you want the sensor to capture is the one the sensor actually captures. A shot with less noise and more DR that's slightly OOF and a fraction of a second after the peak of action is a throwaway. It still baffles me that people fail to understand that there's more to capturing a moment than the sensor inside the camera.


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## 3kramd5 (May 29, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> A shot with less noise and more DR that's slightly OOF and a fraction of a second after the peak of action is a throwaway [compared to one with more noise, less DR, proper focus and timed correctly]



Absolutely.

When I take multiple images of the same subject with more-or-less the same framing (these days most often my son), I look first to focus and exposure. If all of them are equal, I'd then look to noise. With my moving target, I'd rather shoot ISO320 1/400 than ISO160 1/200, that's for sure.


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## sanj (May 29, 2013)

Dylan777 said:


> x-vision said:
> 
> 
> > Dylan777 said:
> ...



Absolutely. Obviously. Size matters!


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## K-amps (May 29, 2013)

Dylan777 said:


> Gino said:
> 
> 
> > If the 7D MKII will have a crop sensor, I do not understand how the camera will have as good of high ISO performance as the full frame 5D MKIII.
> ...



Yeah you don't..... 

but you can process the first 1/2 and re-fill another half for one whole gallon.

HINT: Cats eyes... ;D


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## RMC33 (May 29, 2013)

Pro body style 7D, 12 volt battery (faster lens drive), 50-55 point AF, ISO on par with 5d3/1Dx (1 stop less would be good on par and Ill buy one the day it comes out), C-FN similar to the 1Dx, weather sealing similar to the 1Dx and dual CF. Start the price at $3500-4000 and it will sell. If you can't afford it or think "Oh thats too expensive" then don't buy it and wait, as we have seen over the last few generations of cameras the price drops quickly. 

I know pro sports shooters who still use the 7D and 1DIV over the 1Dx due to the crop factor. Honestly comparing the 7D to the 6D is apples and oranges, one is intended for action while the other is geared more towards wedding photographers and people getting into studio or making the jump from APS-C to FF.

And to answer the question, how do you fit a gallon into a half gallon bucket? Pressurize it.


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## marceloshak (May 29, 2013)

If the 70D can compete with D7100, I guess will never see a 7D II


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## Mick (May 29, 2013)

Im not bothered what Nikon does. I invested in Canon, love their products, think the new lens's are mind blowing so im staying put. As for the 7D, its still an excellent camera. I sold mine recently as i do sports and wildlife to stay with the 1D4 whilst prices stay up. Perhaps the new 7D and from a marketing perspective and there will be a new 7D, is pretty easy to see where it will be and what its specs will be. An autofocus as good as a 5D3 if not a touch faster, no pop up screen, a build same as the last one, functions pretty much the same, frame rate 8 to a possible 10 in essance a faster crop sensored 5D3. As for sensor performance, Canons latest are excellent and that tech will trickle down to the 7D. Low to mid 20 million ish pixels , better noise performance maybe a stop or two. That would bring it closer to a 1D4 performance not 5D3 as its to slow and doesnt have the reach I need. Im getting one when it breaks cover so i have aps-c-h and FF. All bases covered. As for performance, i shot a recent demo with a full frame, aps-h and aps-c. same time same place same lens. All are excellent but as the sensor size grows, you do see the quality increase but thats what id expect.


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## AdamJ (May 29, 2013)

RMC33 said:


> And to answer the question, how do you fit a gallon into a half gallon bucket? Pressurize it.



I think nuclear fusion would occur before your attempt succeeded.


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## Don Haines (May 29, 2013)

ankorwatt said:


> aha , you are talking sales, and Im talking about QE , be in front of research, colors, DR, noise, etc , you have all parameters at DXO sensor ranking. If you are tourist shooting you can buy a good compact camera, why bother about a SLR at all ?.
> Toyota sales most cars in the world, Im not driving a Toyota but many are.I think there are better cars
> How about you?


There is a Toyota in my driveway..... have you ever tried to carry two canoes on a roof-rack on the top of a Lamborghini?


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## Don Haines (May 29, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> ankorwatt said:
> 
> 
> > aha , you are talking sales, and Im talking about QE , be in front of research, colors, DR, noise, etc , you have all parameters at DXO sensor ranking. If you are tourist shooting you can buy a good compact camera, why bother about a SLR at all ?.
> ...



Exactly! Look at the image below.... it is a pileated woodpecker hoping along a fence. It is the timing that makes it an interesting picture.... a mid-air capture that is in focus... not dynamic range or iso performance. 


fohtohz said:


>


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## 3kramd5 (May 29, 2013)

Don Haines said:


> Exactly! Look at the image below.... it is a pileated woodpecker hoping along a fence. It is the timing that makes it an interesting picture.... a mid-air capture that is in focus... not dynamic range or iso performance.
> 
> 
> fohtohz said:
> ...



I do find myself wishing there was more detail inside the crack directly below the bird. DR is severely lacking.

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