# Digital Photo Paper: Do you prefer Canon?



## George D. (Jan 16, 2016)

I'm taking digital pics to view them on screen monitor or project them. On occasion however I'd like to print some, monochrome, not larger than A3 size, a volume of not more than 200-300 pics, eyeing up to Prograph PRO-1. Do you prefer Canon pro photo paper when it comes to printing? Or is there any other maker that puts it far behind. Or maybe digital labs outperform inkjet by far in any case so not worth the investment?

Relevant small poll attached (concerns monochrome prints):
Use Canon Photo Paper/Use other brand/All about the same (Canon/other)/Rather go to Lab (they know better).
(7-day poll run)

Mind hi-end DSLR monochrome has multiple shades and high contrasts so need all the detail printed.


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## danski0224 (Jan 16, 2016)

George D. said:


> I'm taking digital pics to view them on screen monitor or project them. On occasion however I'd like to print some, monochrome, not larger than A3 size, a volume of not more than 200-300 pics, eyeing up to Prograph PRO-1. Do you prefer Canon pro photo paper when it comes to printing? Or is there any other maker that puts it far behind. Or maybe digital labs outperform inkjet by far in any case so not worth the investment?
> 
> Relevant small poll attached (concerns monochrome prints):
> Use Canon Photo Paper/Use other brand/All about the same (Canon/other)/Rather go to Lab (they know better).
> ...



Canon Pro-1000?

That printer has 12 ink tanks. At 60 bucks a pop, a refill is $720.00. Do you get "full" or "starter" cartridges with a new printer?

There are so many paper choices out there. The choices are mind boggling.

Canon has a solid range of papers from consumer grade to fine art grade. The cost can be considered "cheap" if you buy during one of the buy one, get 2/3/4 free sales.

The Canon printer will probably do just fine for the "average" monochrome print maker.

That said, if you have no desire to print color, then I'd look at the Piezography process. There are many, many nuances to monochrome printing and it can quickly become a rabbit hole.

You probably need to at least proof prints at home. For actual printing, it is not cost effective to print for yourself... but there is no other way to see what it looks like on paper


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## takesome1 (Jan 16, 2016)

I have the Pixma Pro' 9000 and 9500. 

Using other brands of paper I always had mediocre results. Canon paper is balanced to the printer and it gives great results. The cost of ink is so high it isn't worth experimenting. Go with the best Canon paper if you have the Canon printer.

Small prints are to expensive to print, use a lab. Large prints cost about the same as a labs to print. Having a printer is only a convenience not a cost saver.


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## danski0224 (Jan 16, 2016)

takesome1 said:


> I have the Pixma Pro' 9000 and 9500.
> 
> Using other brands of paper I always had mediocre results. Canon paper is balanced to the printer and it gives great results. The cost of ink is so high it isn't worth experimenting. Go with the best Canon paper if you have the Canon printer.
> 
> Small prints are to expensive to print, use a lab. Large prints cost about the same as a labs to print. Having a printer is only a convenience not a cost saver.



The Canon papers are profiled for Canon printers.

If you make your own profiles, you can use any paper on any printer. For general purposes, brand X glossy is probably "close enough" to brand Y glossy papers.

Some 3rd party suppliers like Red River paper offer free profiles for their paper on many different printers.

A monitor calibration tool and paper profiler is a few hundred bucks. 

Yes, the cost of ink and paper can be high for experimenting.


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## George D. (Jan 16, 2016)

Yes it's not for experimenting therefore your opinion matters. I have in mind ILFORD UK but I'm not sure what Canon is up to as compared.


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## LDS (Jan 16, 2016)

George D. said:


> Do you prefer Canon pro photo paper when it comes to printing? Or is there any other maker that puts it far behind. Or maybe digital labs outperform inkjet by far in any case so not worth the investment?



You need to find the paper(s) that best suits your photos, your printing technique and archival and display needs. There are several different types of papers with different "white" points, weight/thickness, different surfaces and textures, different materials.

As someone else said, Canon offers a limited range (although some are from renowned maker Hahnemühle).

Among the brands often photographers use you can find Hahnemühle, Canson, Innova, Moab, Ilford, Museo, each with an extensive product line to suit different types of images and printing needs. Usually they offer basic paper profiles for many professional printers (including the Canon Pixma Pro and ImageProGraph lines) - of course to achieve the best results you may need custom made profiles (or even professional made profiles, creating a good profile require some skills too). Some of these papers may be (very) expensive, usually they also offer a "sample packs" with different papers so you can test which one you prefer.

A good digital pro lab can use some top of the line printers (or print to chemical paper), have skilled personnel, and deliver excellent results - but pro-level prints may be expensive as well. More "consumer" labs may still yield good results (and be cheaper), yet you may have less options and less control over the print.

A good source about printing, especially in B/W, is Keith Cooper's site at http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/articles.php


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## takesome1 (Jan 16, 2016)

danski0224 said:


> takesome1 said:
> 
> 
> > I have the Pixma Pro' 9000 and 9500.
> ...



Even if you have the right profile for third party it doesn't guarantee you would be happy with the results. You could still spend hundreds in ink researching.

For someone who may have just got a printer for free or discounted as part of one of the package deals from Canon I almost certainly would recommend sticking with Canon paper. If you can not afford to experiment it is the cheapest bet.

There is no such thing as a Free Dog, or Free Printers. One eats expensive dog food and one eats ink.


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## LDS (Jan 16, 2016)

takesome1 said:


> Even if you have the right profile for third party it doesn't guarantee you would be happy with the results. You could still spend hundreds in ink researching.



Even if you use Canon printers with Canon papers you may not be happy with the results either. Learning to print requires some learning and experiments. Anyone who believes that just selecting the correct paper type and an ICC profile will lead to the desired result is going to be disappointed.

Canon does make its profiles like everybody else. Papers are not made from Canon, but by some paper mill which makes also papers for other brands and usually its own. Sure, Canon can have its paper specs - but still what it delivers are "generic" profiles made on a reference printer for a given batch of paper, just like the third party ones. The quality of the profiles is up to the skills and professionalism of those who made them.

Canon, anyway, does know many photographers are going to use its printers, especially the professional ones, with non-Canon papers, and has really no reason not to ensure its printers work very well with third party papers as well - not doing so will just make its printer less appealing.

That not to say Canon papers should be avoided. Its best ones are made by reputable paper mills, and they are probably the simplest and easy way to start with (and probably less expensive also) - and if they fit your needs, why not?

Anyway, to ensure top quality profiles you should profile the exact printer/inks/paper combination you're using. Today you can often assume inks and papers specs vary little among batches, so once you calibrated a combination you may not have to repeat it often.


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## George D. (Jan 16, 2016)

Thanks for Keith Cooper's link.



LDS said:


> Among the brands often photographers use you can find Hahnemühle, Canson, Innova, Moab, Ilford, Museo, each with an extensive product line to suit different types of images and printing needs.



I believe contrary to film where paper is part of the developing process the (inkjet) printer here does the main job and to simplify, the top layer of paper acts as ink "fixer". Of course there is a paper choice like gloss, semi-gloss, luster, etc.. I'd rather not go thinking Canon is better than "x" in gloss but "x" is better in matte than Canon. I'm considering say gloss, monochrome. 

Also the DSLR is a computer related tool (GUIs/Adobe RGB, etc.), perhaps not all shades can be printed on (inkjet) paper so we're probably talking about a compromise anyway.


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## LDS (Jan 17, 2016)

George D. said:


> I believe contrary to film where paper is part of the developing process the (inkjet) printer here does the main job and to simplify, the top layer of paper acts as ink "fixer".



Even chemical paper acts mostly as an host for silver halides. Yet, different papers give different feelings. Especially since nor silver, nor most printers, actually deliver "white" - it's the paper itself that does that, and thereby different "whites" matters when you print, both for purer "whites", and dithering patterns to generate other colours. Some papers use OBAs (optical brightening agents), others do not, different materials, surfaces and textures can reflect light in a subtle different way (maybe at different angles), and so on. And of course each paper may act a little different when a drop of ink is sprayed upon it. How much does it matters? Depends on your aims, and your audience.

There is also the issue of how a paper ages, especially when put on display.



George D. said:


> Also the DSLR is a computer related tool (GUIs/Adobe RGB, etc.), perhaps not all shades can be printed on (inkjet) paper so we're probably talking about a compromise anyway.



That depends on the original image, camera, file format and color space, printer/inks used, paper, technique. Printing B/W is somewhat different than printing colours, and specific profiles can be created. There is also the option to use specific sets of B/W inks, although with improvements in latest printers it became less common.

Glossy paper usually can deliver deeper blacks than matte ones, but as Cooper says, each image has its own needs. In his printer reviews he usually checks how good the printer is for B/W printing, and has also a LinkedIn group on the subject, you may want to check them as a starting point.

IMHO, any print is always a compromise - you have to reach the one that fits best your needs.


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## Zeidora (Jan 18, 2016)

There are also other printer manufacturers like Epson, which I happen to use (4880).
- What sort of image do you want to create? Photorealism, high gloss, arty-matt, structured paper, canvass/giclée?
- Where do you intend to view them? Indoors incandescent/fluorescent, natural light, outdoors, direct sun light?
- How long are they out, how long should they look the same? 1 day, 1 year, decade, century?

2-300 in what time frame? per year? Think about cartridge size the printer can take. It can be more cost effective to purchase a larger printer even if you only bring 4x6" photos, but in larger numbers.

For high-gloss realism papers, I would stick with paper from printer manufacturer. I use epson premium papers on my Epson printer to print scanning electron micrographs, which are by nature B&W and are intended for scientific hyper-realism. Once you go into structured, paper-based papers, then there are better options from third-party vendors (Hahnemühle etc.). The latter will take a lot of experimentation to find out how to achieve the look you want. Nobody here can tell you what you will like.

Maybe read up on paper in general: fiber types, fillers, brighteners, coatings etc. I like Turner's Book of Fine Paper.
http://www.amazon.com/The-Book-Fine-Paper-Contemporary/dp/0500018715. Don't think it covers inkjet papers, but has a lot of good general paper info in it.

I would possibly start off with getting display calibration, printer profiling, soft-proofing, and printer settings nailed down with a glossy paper. Once your print looks like your proof on your calibrated display, then you can move on to trying different papers. If you jump into structured papers without mastering glossy, you are in for a world of hurt.

If you think you don't have the financial resources to learn the process, it may be cheaper to outsource it.


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## Hector1970 (Jan 18, 2016)

I find the range of Canon paper very limited. 
It's seems to be just glossy paper.
I buy Permajet, Canson and Hahnemuele paper for printing as there are a wide variety of types and they impact the look of the paper.
It means downloading or getting paper profiles but that works really well.


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## takesome1 (Jan 18, 2016)

Hector1970 said:


> I find the range of Canon paper very limited.
> *It's seems to be just glossy paper.*



Canon makes Photo Rag, Semi Gloss, Matt and Fine Art paper.
What is limited is your knowledge of the paper Canon has available.


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## Hector1970 (Jan 18, 2016)

takesome1 said:


> Hector1970 said:
> 
> 
> > I find the range of Canon paper very limited.
> ...



Available is probably the key word.
When I am you don't find Canon Photo Rag, Semi Gloss, Matt and Fine Art Paper.
You find Canon Glossy and Platinum.
Thanks for your smart comment anyway.


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## takesome1 (Jan 18, 2016)

Hector1970 said:


> takesome1 said:
> 
> 
> > Hector1970 said:
> ...



You are welcome, always nice to enlighten people.

I am not sure where you are at, maybe in the sticks.
But here is what Canon's Website lists for the Pixma Pro 9500II.
Perhaps you live somewhere that Canon doesn't service their product, other than the US.


Fine Art Museum Etching Paper 13x19 - 200 Sheets
This superb, heavyweight fine art paper has a warm, natural white textured surface finish producing gorgeous, saturated colors and deep blacks- a top choice for printing etchings, lithography, drawings, and for creating museum-quality art and proto prints.
OUT OF STOCK

Fine Art Museum Etching Paper LTR - 200 Sheets
This superb, heavyweight fine art paper has a warm, natural white textured surface finish producing gorgeous, saturated colors and deep blacks- a top choice for printing etchings, lithography, drawings, and for creating museum-quality art and proto prints.
OUT OF STOCK

Fine Art Paper Photo Pro Rag FA-PR1 13x19 - 200 Sheets
This Hahnlemuhle brand fine art paper is a versatile, soft white paper made from 100% acid-free cotton rag- a surface expressly created to pick up every detail in your image, creating the most accurate representations of photography, fine art, or digital art equally.
OUT OF STOCK

Fine Art Paper Photo Rag FA-PR1 LTR - 300 Sheets
This Hahnlemuhle brand fine art paper is a versatile, soft white paper made from 100% acid-free cotton rag- a surface expressly created to pick up every detail in your image, creating the most accurate representations of photography, fine art, or digital art equally.
OUT OF STOCK

Fine Art Paper Premium Matte FA-PM1 13x19 - 200 Sheets
OUT OF STOCK

LU-101 13X19
Beautiful luster finish provides an elegant surface that resists fingerprints and virtually eliminates glare. Great for portrait and wedding and fine art photography prints.
IN STOCK
MSRP: $99.99
Canon Store $99.99
ADD TO CART

LU-101 LTR50
Beautiful luster finish provides an elegant surface that resists fingerprints and virtually eliminates glare. Great for portrait and wedding and fine art photography prints.
OUT OF STOCK

MP-101 Matte Photo Paper - 4 x 6 - 120 sheets
For superior photo results, here's a matte-finish, heavy-weight paper that's ideal: this bright-white paper will infuse your images with remarkably vibrant color every time.
IN STOCK
MSRP: $12.99
Canon Store $12.99
ADD TO CART

MP-101 Matte Photo Paper - 8.5 x 11 - 50 sheets
For superior photo results, here's a matte finish, heavy-weight paper that's ideal: this bright white paper will infuse your images with remarkably vibrant color every time. Package includes 50 sheets.
IN STOCK
MSRP: $9.99
Canon Store $9.99
ADD TO CART

MP-101 Matte Photo Paper 13 x 19 - 20 sheets
For superior photo results, here's a matte finish, heavy-weight paper that's ideal: this bright white paper will infuse your images with remarkably vibrant color every time.
IN STOCK
MSRP: $19.95
Canon Store $19.95
ADD TO CART

PP-101 Photo Paper Plus Glossy - 4 x 6 - 50 sheets
Want to turn your photos into works of art? This paper yields a glossy finish and exceptionally right color, giving your images the look and feel of a traditional photograph. Package includes 50 sheets.
OUT OF STOCK

PP-101 Photo Paper Plus Glossy - 5 x 7 - 20 sheets
Want to turn your photos into works of art? This paper yields a glossy finish and exceptionally right color, giving your images the look and feel of a traditional photograph. Package includes 20 sheets.
OUT OF STOCK

PP-101 Photo Paper Plus Glossy - 8.5 x 11 - 20 sheets
Want to turn your photos into works of art? This paper yields a glossy finish and exceptionally right color, giving your images the look and feel of a traditional photograph. Package includes 20 sheets.
MSRP: $6.50

PP-201 13 x 19 - Photo Paper Plus Glossy II - 20 sheets
Photo Paper Plus Glossy II yields a glossy finish and exceptionally rich colors, giving your images the look and feel of a traditional photograph.Learn about the technology behind the paper. Learn More
IN STOCK
MSRP:
Canon Store $36.99
ADD TO CART

PP-201 4 x 6 - Photo Paper Plus Glossy II - 100 sheets
Photo Paper Plus Glossy II yields a glossy finish and exceptionally rich colors, giving your images the look and feel of a traditional photograph. Learn about the technology behind the paper.
IN STOCK
MSRP:
Canon Store $18.99
ADD TO CART

PP-201 4 x 6 - Photo Paper Plus Glossy II - 400 sheets
Photo Paper Plus Glossy II yields a glossy finish and exceptionally rich colors, giving your images the look and feel of a traditional photograph. Learn about the technology behind the paper.
IN STOCK
MSRP:
Canon Store $39.99
ADD TO CART

PP-201 4 x 6 - Photo Paper Plus Glossy II - 50 sheets
Photo Paper Plus Glossy II yields a glossy finish and exceptionally rich colors, giving your images the look and feel of a traditional photograph. Learn about the technology behind the paper.
IN STOCK
MSRP:
Canon Store $12.99
ADD TO CART

PP-201 5 x 7 - Photo Paper Plus Glossy II - 20 sheets
Photo Paper Plus Glossy II yields a glossy finish and exceptionally rich colors, giving your images the look and feel of a traditional photograph. Learn about the technology behind the paper.
IN STOCK
MSRP:
Canon Store $8.49
ADD TO CART

PP-201 8 x 10 - Photo Paper Plus Glossy II - 20 sheets
Photo Paper Plus Glossy II yields a glossy finish and exceptionally rich colors, giving your images the look and feel of a traditional photograph. Learn about the technology behind the paper.
OUT OF STOCK

PP-201 8.5 x 11 - Photo Paper Plus Glossy II - 20 sheets
Photo Paper Plus Glossy II yields a glossy finish and exceptionally rich colors, giving your images the look and feel of a traditional photograph. Learn about the technology behind the paper.
IN STOCK
MSRP:
Canon Store $13.99
ADD TO CART

PT-101 Photo Paper Pro Platinum 13" x 19" - 10 Sheets
When ChromaLife100+ inks and Photo Paper Pro Platinum are used together your photos can achieve over a 200 year life in an album.
IN STOCK
MSRP: $34.99
Canon Store $34.99
ADD TO CART

PT-101 Photo Paper Pro Platinum 4" x 6" - 100 Sheets
When ChromaLife100+ inks and Photo Paper Pro Platinum are used together your photos can achieve over a 200 year life in an album.
MSRP: $39.99

PT-101 Photo Paper Pro Platinum 4" x 6" - 50 Sheets
When ChromaLife100+ inks and Photo Paper Pro Platinum are used together your photos can achieve over a 200 year life in an album.
IN STOCK
MSRP: $24.99
Canon Store $24.99
ADD TO CART

PT-101 Photo Paper Pro Platinum 8" x 10" - 20 Sheets
When ChromaLife100+ inks and Photo Paper Pro Platinum are used together your photos can achieve over a 200 year life in an album.
MSRP: $24.99

PT-101 Photo Paper Pro Platinum 8.5" x 11" - 20 Sheets
When ChromaLife100+ inks and Photo Paper Pro Platinum are used together your photos can achieve over a 200 year life in an album.
IN STOCK
MSRP: $24.99
Canon Store $24.99
ADD TO CART

Photo Album 3 x 3 Pocket Size Case- 12 Albums
OUT OF STOCK

Photo Paper Plus Semi-Gloss SG-201 13x19 - 200 Sheets
OUT OF STOCK

Photo Paper Plus Semi-Gloss SG-201 LTR - 400 Sheets
OUT OF STOCK

Photo Paper Pro Platinum 13x19 - 100 Sheets
OUT OF STOCK

Photo Paper Pro Platinum 8x10 - 200 Sheets
OUT OF STOCK

SG-201 - Photo Paper Plus Semi-Gloss - 13 x 19 - 20 sheets
The velvety texture of this semi-gloss paper gives you an amaingly rich quality. Photo Paper Plus Semi-Gloss produces vibrant images with low glare and a soft glossy finish for photo lab quality prints right at home.
MSRP:

SG-201 13X19 Photo Paper Plus Semi-Gloss 50 Sheets
OUT OF STOCK

SG-201 5X7 Photo Paper Plus Semi-Gloss 20 Sheets
The velvety texture of this semi-gloss paper give your photos an amazingly rich quality. Photo Paper Plus Semi-Gloss produces vibrant images with low glare and a soft glossy finish for photo lab quality prints right at home.
IN STOCK
MSRP: $9.99
Canon Store $9.99
ADD TO CART

SG-201 8X10 Photo Paper Plus Semi-Gloss 50 Sheets
The velvety texture of this semi-gloss paper give your photos an amazingly rich quality. Photo Paper Plus Semi-Gloss produces vibrant images with low glare and a soft glossy finish for photo lab quality prints right at home.
IN STOCK
MSRP: $34.99
Canon Store $34.99
ADD TO CART

SG-201 Letter Photo Paper Plus Semi-Gloss 50 Sheets
The velvety texture of this semi-gloss paper give your photos an amazingly rich quality. Photo Paper Plus Semi-Gloss produces vibrant images with low glare and a soft glossy finish for photo lab quality prints right at home.
IN STOCK
MSRP: $34.99
Canon Store $34.99
ADD TO CART

SG-201 Photo Paper Plus Semi-Gloss - 4 x 6 - 50 sheets
The velvety texture of this semi-gloss paper give your photos an amazingly rich quality. Photo Paper Plus Semi-Gloss produces vibrant images with low glare and a soft glossy finish for photo lab quality prints right at home.
IN STOCK
MSRP: $12.49
Canon Store $12.49
ADD TO CART

SG-201 Photo Paper Plus Semi-Gloss - 8 x 10 - 20 sheets
The velvety texture of this semi-gloss paper give your photos an amazingly rich quality. Photo Paper Plus Semi-Gloss produces vibrant images with low glare and a soft glossy finish for photo lab quality prints right at home.


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## Eldar (Jan 18, 2016)

I have tried lots and I have come to the conclusion that, especially due to my limited skills in getting the most from all options, I have settled for one (1) type. I use Canson Baryta 310g in A4, A3 and A3+. Fantastic paper, especially for B&W.


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## LDS (Jan 18, 2016)

takesome1 said:


> Canon makes Photo Rag, Semi Gloss, Matt and Fine Art paper.
> What is limited is your knowledge of the paper Canon has available.



It looks Canon paper availability depends on the region you are. Here in Italy, among the pro papers, you can find the glossy PT-101, the luster (semi-gloss, textured) LU-101, and matte PM-101, plus the Museum Etching FA-ME1. No Photo Rag here. Maybe Canon may have different distribution agreements with the paper manufacturer depending on the region.

Looking for papers on the Canon site is also not the best options, because what you find in the store and among the printer consumables not always match - right now I can't find the PM-101 in the local Canon store (although it can be find from Amazon or the like). Epson looks to believe a little more in its paper business 

But Canon Europe site does show also many Hahnemuhle, Canson and others as "Canon approved papers", and has profiles to download and specific settings to apply (see http://www.canon-europe.com/printers/inkjet/pro-photo-printers/)

In my area, it's difficult to find Canon (and often Epson too) papers in most photo/arts shops, while the paper-specific brands are easier to find - probably being not tied to a printer brand helps to sell better, regardless of the printer brand of the buyer (unless the shop itself is branded)


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## takesome1 (Jan 18, 2016)

LDS said:


> Looking for papers on the Canon site is also not the best options, because what you find in the store and among the printer consumables not always match - right now I can't find the PM-101 in the local Canon store (although it can be find from Amazon or the like). Epson looks to believe a little more in its paper business



I looked at B&H before I went to Canon's website, Canon's site was easier to cut and paste . 
B&H had just about everything listed on Canon's site.
I did notice the photo rag was not packaged the same way as it used to be. Also B&H didn't even have the 13 x 19. It has been over a year since I have bought paper. I still have a huge supply sitting next to my printer and packaging seems to have changed.


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## Hector1970 (Jan 18, 2016)

takesome1 said:


> Hector1970 said:
> 
> 
> > takesome1 said:
> ...



Most of which seems to be out of stock


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## takesome1 (Jan 19, 2016)

Hector1970 said:


> Most of which seems to be out of stock



Imagine that, it is popular enough that people are actually buying it out.


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## Valvebounce (Jan 19, 2016)

Hi takesome1. 
I have no idea which papers were out of stock, I did note the high number of out of stock listings. 
So conversely it could be that some are such poor sellers that they have run down their stock and haven't yet removed them from their site! ;D 
They may be waiting for a minimum quantity pre order before purchasing low turnover stock which is almost equal to discontinued if there is an alternative that people in a hurry for a print can use. 

Cheers, Graham. 



takesome1 said:


> Hector1970 said:
> 
> 
> > Most of which seems to be out of stock
> ...


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