# Great white lens overkill for a graduation?



## chasinglight (Apr 7, 2015)

Hi, this is not your typical "what's the cheapest lens I should use for a graduation ceremony" thread. I have a family member graduating with their MBA in a few months. I looked and the graduation will be held in what appears to be a large gym or something similar. I recently joint canon cps so I have been thinking of excuses to evaluate lens and thought this would be a good reason. Based on the distance and lack of light I figured something like a 300 2.8 + tele if necessary or 400 2.8 would be the best fit, but do you think that would be overkill? I could just shoot high ISO with my 100-400 or shoot wider with my 70-200. There is no guarantee I could get a lens to evaluate for the event, but I figured if I request it early enough.. Is there another lens you would suggest? Obviously we will also get the photos from the photographer on the stage, but I do like to shoot what I can.

Oh and other background, I will be shooting a 5d3. So full frame usable high iso.

Thanks for your help and opinions!


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## YuengLinger (Apr 7, 2015)

Just pay for the school's photos. Be practical and stop stressing. 8)


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## chasinglight (Apr 7, 2015)

Already said I would pay for the photos. I just like to shoot my own as well. Not stressing about it, just planning.


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## takesome1 (Apr 7, 2015)

Three years ago the son graduated from HS. 1000 kids or so. Arena that seats 15000, from the walk at the top of the first level I shot with a 300mm f/2.8 with FF. Just the right length.

May be to dark for an extender, you may be shooting at F/2.8. I wouldn't even take one.

Every graduation I have been to, college or otherwise was open seating. If that's the case the best advice is to be the first in line and get to a seat fast.


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## Vivid Color (Apr 7, 2015)

Have you asked your family member who's graduating what they think of your idea? If he or she is for it, great, but if not, then just leave the big white at home.


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## dcm (Apr 7, 2015)

Vivid Color said:


> Have you asked your family member who's graduating what they think of your idea? If he or she is for it, great, but if not, then just leave the big white at home.



Best suggestion yet. You don't want to be THAT relative. I can't see much use for a great white to get one shot, even if I had one.

I've done a few graduations for my kids. High school and bachelors degrees were done indoors with a G series and small external flash. Family and friends photos were taken indoors and outdoors around the venue on campus. All I had at the time, but good enough.

Masters degree was outdoors in a football stadium with separate departmental award ceremonies in lecture halls. Thought it would be a great opportunity for my DSLR and a tele. Shot some with a 70-200+extender in the stadium, probably wasn't worth it, nobody was really interested in those shots. A longer lens wouldn't have helped. My 24-105 got the money shots - the sea of grads during procession and receiving diplomas as well as candids before/after with the graduate, classmates, faculty, and family. Those were the ones everyone wanted copies, primarily to post online. The university got the diploma shot just fine for the family and it wasn't worth the effort for a split second opportunity that you probably can't setup exactly the way you want. More power to you if you can. Next time I'd only take a DSLR with a single lens - mid range zoom (24-70 or 24-105) - and enjoy the ceremony.


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## bobby samat (Apr 7, 2015)

i got to use a 400mm 2.8 once about 5 years ago. i had a blast. it's an amazing lens.

i would go for it. even if you don't wind up using it for the ceremony, you can find lots of other excuses to use it. as long as you can deal with people staring at you, you'll be fine.


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## Hjalmarg1 (Apr 7, 2015)

chasinglight said:


> Already said I would pay for the photos. I just like to shoot my own as well. Not stressing about it, just planning.



Close up portrait photos are not the ones that normally are beloved and kept forever by family members. As others have said, and you also agree, pay for the photos and enjoy the ceremony. However, I'd take my bag with only two lenses: the 70-200mm f2.8 and one standard medium telephoto (e.g 24-xxxmm/f2.8-4) for the group photos and portraits you want to keep.
Hauling with a big white is not a good idea unless you are paid for doing so.


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## Dylan777 (Apr 7, 2015)

Few years back, my 6yrs was in ballet. The theater was always filled with parents from front to back rows, except last 4-5 always empty. Some families even arrived 1.5hrs to 2hrs before the dance trying to get the front center rows.

I did the opposite. I picked the very last row and center seat, which has the highest view. I took 5D3 + 70-200 f2.8 IS II and another 5D3 + 400mm f2.8 IS II, couldn't miss a shot. Many ended up 70mmish on wide views and some with close-up at 400mm @ wide open.

My suggestions. Ignore the people who might think you over pack or too much gear. Be focus on how you going to get "The Shots" and select the best locations. BTW...the 400mm f2.8 IS II doesn't look that big if you remove the hood. Use Black Rapid dual strap.


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## expatinasia (Apr 7, 2015)

The 400 f/2.8 ii is a very big lens which should really be used with a monopod to get the best results. I can only think that such a lens is totally over the top for a graduation where there might also be lots of people around that you could inconvenience by using it.


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## KitsVancouver (Apr 7, 2015)

Depends a bit on the school. There are a lot of "hoaky" MBA schools nowadays. If it's at a top tier school then by nature, the families will have a little more money and not be "impressed" by anything. 

The attention is another thing because 100%, people will stare at you regardless of the school. I used to take my 200-400 to my kids' skating lessons but my wife made me stop bringing it because it was drawing too much attention. 

The advice above about asking your subject is really appropriate because you might embarrass that person.


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## scotia (Apr 7, 2015)

I would like to put in a plea for all the other families who have relatives graduating on the day - whatever you do, don't interfere with their enjoyment. I sit on the stage at graduations and get to see quite a lot of what goes on in the audience. I am sometimes appalled by the behavior of relatives/friends who wave around big cameras and lenses, leap up at crucial moments, and generally get in the way of people around them also wanting to enjoy the moment for the person they have come to support. I know that at least one university now politely requests relatives to save the photographs for after the main event - an outright ban was considered, but they decided to try a polite request to see if that would improve behavior. 

Why not enjoy the moment of the graduation and then take photographs of your relative in regalia where you can choose the background and generally control the environment? I don't recollect anyone taking photographs during my graduation (I graduated in the days of film), but frankly they would be of little value to me: the photographs I treasure were taken with my friends after the event.


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## NancyP (Apr 7, 2015)

THe photos I treasured were the ones after the ceremony, informal poses in cap and gown with friends and relatives.


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## mackguyver (Apr 7, 2015)

This probably won't be a popular response, but here's my take:

I would pay for the professional shots and enjoy the ceremony. Looking back at graduations and other events, I have _missed_ many of them because I was too caught up trying to get a perfect photo. I can't get those memories back and my photos never turned out as well as I would have hoped. The shots I or others paid for were more than adequate and better than any I took, plus you're helping out a fellow photographer.

Also, as NancyP says, take out the camera after the graduation - that's when the most memorable photos will be taken!


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## dak723 (Apr 7, 2015)

mackguyver said:


> This probably won't be a popular response, but here's my take:
> 
> I would pay for the professional shots and enjoy the ceremony. Looking back at graduations and other events, I have _missed_ many of them because I was too caught up trying to get a perfect photo. I can't get those memories back and my photos never turned out as well as I would have hoped. The shots I or others paid for were more than adequate and better than any I took, plus you're helping out a fellow photographer.
> 
> Also, as NancyP says, take out the camera after the graduation - that's when the most memorable photos will be taken!



Agree completely.


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## YuengLinger (Apr 7, 2015)

mackguyver said:


> This probably won't be a popular response, but here's my take:
> 
> I would pay for the professional shots and enjoy the ceremony. Looking back at graduations and other events, I have _missed_ many of them because I was too caught up trying to get a perfect photo. I can't get those memories back and my photos never turned out as well as I would have hoped. The shots I or others paid for were more than adequate and better than any I took, plus you're helping out a fellow photographer.
> 
> Also, as NancyP says, take out the camera after the graduation - that's when the most memorable photos will be taken!



Mackguyver, you knew how to say, diplomatically, what I was trying to say.

Plus the part about supporting pro photography is very important. Not exactly the same, but sort of like the uncle who brings all his gear to a big wedding that already has a photographer.

Make it about the graduate, not the photography.


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## AcutancePhotography (Apr 7, 2015)

I often wonder how much photographers miss while trying to catch everything?

Is there really value in recording an experience that you did not really experience because you were busy trying to record the experience?


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## mackguyver (Apr 7, 2015)

AcutancePhotography said:


> I often wonder how much photographers miss while trying to catch everything?
> 
> Is there really value in recording an experience that you did not really experience because you were busy trying to record the experience?


Unfortunately, this only seems to be something that you can learn from experience. Photography is exciting and fun and we want to show our loved ones how much we care by getting that special photo of their special moment. That seems reasonable, right? Unfortunately it's not really the case and looking back over the years, I'd trade a lot of photos for the experience of seeing it without a viewfinder stuck in between. 

I'm sad to say that it hit me when my wife came off stage from a very special performance and asked me what I thought. All I could talk about was how much trouble it was to take the photo or what worked and didn't work. She wasn't angry with me, but I could see that she could care less about the photos, but was sad I didn't have much to say about her performance. It occurred to me that I barely remembered anything I had seen through the viewfinder and my photos didn't even turn out too well. I essentially missed the whole thing, which makes me quite sad in retrospect.


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## MikeT (Apr 7, 2015)

My 2¢, for what it's worth (probably 2¢)... About a year ago I had just gotten my 6D and 70-300mm lens, and was itching to try them out. The grandson of a friend was graduating, and I went to photograph the event as a good opportunity to try out the new gear. To answer the op, the graduation was in a high school gym, and most of the pics I took were at 300mm, and were well framed. Yes, the family bought the photographer's photos, but ended up framing the one I took. Not that I'm a better photographer, but I had the better angle. I sat to the side, slightly in front of the stage.

While I agree with Mackguyver (as I usually do) if this is a close family member, it seems that we are making that assumption - the op did not state whether it is close family or not. If this is a distant relative, then the op may see the photo opportunity as his main motivation for attending. In which case, my experience would say to go for the 300mm...


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## alben (Apr 7, 2015)

My daughters masters degree in chemistry takes place in Bath Abbey early July, I will surely take my 70-200 mk2 f2.8 and hope to get a few decent shots, done this before at my sons graduation in a lecture hall. Will of course buy the pro shots, also are hiring the gown for a extra week (not very expensive) so I can take pics after the event and again at home in near studio environment.

Alan


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## takesome1 (Apr 7, 2015)

I took my camera to two of my sons HS graduations. I do not regret shooting the graduation. I have shots that the event pro would never take. I treasure those pictures. My kids tolerate it because I am Dad, and I am who I am. Hopefully soon at least one will have a degree so I can shoot their College graduation.

Here is my take. The graduation of a son or daughter is a big day for them, and for you. You spent hopefully no more than 18 years getting the kid ready for a HS graduation, and even more years for college graduation. It is your day as well, enjoy to. You spent massive amounts of cash, grown old and have grey hair getting the child to this point. You have earned the right to enjoy it how you see fit. As they cross the stage and are handed a degree that you have spent thousands on your picture will be well worth it. If you want to spend that day sitting and watching, that is your choice, you have earned that as well.

Now a shot I recommend that no event pro will provide you. I had both of my sons as they stood on the floor with everyone else at the end, turn and face me in the stands and hold their diploma up in victory. The narrow DOF of your child standing in a crowd that fades OOF around them is priceless.


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## dhr90 (Apr 7, 2015)

I thoroughly agree with those who have suggested asking the graduate what they want or mind you doing. 

I had my BSc graduation a few years ago, and I didn't mind my dad using his 300 f4 from the audience, but I would have objected to him bringing a 300 f2.8, whilst we are both photographers, I would have been embarrassed about it. His shot was decidedly average and he missed the moment of me on stage shaking the Dean's hand. We got the professional photos which were much better given the lighting and positioning.

But the shots I really value and go back to look at with real fondness are the before and after with family and friends, both staged formal ones with whatever nice background we could find and just the ones where we are laughing and having fun before bidding each other farewell. Those were all taken with a Nikon 15-85 or something like that.


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## Andyx01 (Apr 7, 2015)

You may want to avoid using a prime and go for a more flexible fast zoom like the Sigma 200-500mm f/2.8


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## TexPhoto (Apr 7, 2015)

400mm f2.8 would take awesome photos! 
if you are in the right location. 
Ad is so big and heavy it will overshadow your presence at the event 
The people you are with will want to be with you a whole lot less :'(

Sounds like something I would do….


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## Ozarker (Apr 7, 2015)

KitsVancouver said:


> Depends a bit on the school. If it's at a top tier school then by nature, the families will have a little more money and not be "impressed" by anything.
> 
> The attention is another thing because 100%, people will stare at you regardless of the school. I used to take my 200-400 to my kids' skating lessons but my wife made me stop bringing it because it was drawing too much attention.



I read a lot about the "attention" people get when carrying a big white lens. Frankly, I don't get it. I just don't. I am not knocking what you say, just that I don't get it. If I buy a lens, it is for a specific purpose. I wish I had the money for good camera gear when my daughter was in the High School band many years ago or when she was a semi-pro mountain bike racer, etc. I wish! Leaving the lens at home because it was drawing "too much attention?" I just don't get that. What kind of attention? People watching you take photos? You were going to get mugged and robbed at the skating rink? It embarrassed the wife that you were taking photos? And what is with this "impressed" stuff? The average person on the street has no idea what the gear costs or even what it is.

Heck: To the OP... Life is short and if you want to take photos with a great lens and don't bother anyone else---> Go for it and have a blast! It's your camera and you will be the one borrowing the lens. I wouldn't worry what anyone else thinks, whether or not they are "impressed", what school it is, or whether carrying it around draws attention. Have fun and enjoy life. I wish you the best of luck and happy shooting.


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## Ozarker (Apr 7, 2015)

Andyx01 said:


> You may want to avoid using a prime and go for a more flexible fast zoom like the Sigma 200-500mm f/2.8



A fast zoom would be more practical.


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## applecider (Apr 7, 2015)

You might check with the venue if they allow or forbid any specific photo equipment. The few chances that I had to attend events like you are describing I got stopped at the door by security because of a 70-200 small big white. I had the riot act read to me about being in the stands with it. 

Any how worth a check it's a pain to wait in a line only to be scolded or turned away because of a rule that is surely not prominent on the ticket.


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## No Mayo (Apr 7, 2015)

My choice as a photoDad at 3 graduations was to leave my 400 2.8 at home because I felt that it would be too large to lug around while following my grad before and after the ceremony. I instead took my 200/2 (still pretty large) and 35 1.4. The 200/2 fits nicely in a small backpack while I was shooting the before and after stuff mainly at 35 focal length. The 3rd grad was out of town and I took the 70-200 2.8II, 35 1.4, and 14 2.8. This turned out to be a great decision as this was a very tight and crowded arena. My knees were just behind the persons head in front of me and I had to be very careful not to obscure anyone else's view by sitting back in my seat and keeping the camera close to my face and torso. I made friends with the person that was the most affected by my presence and emailed them shots of their son. This is my main point. If you are penalizing any strangers with your photo girth, ask politely for their understanding and offer to shoot for them as well. The man sitting next to me was thrilled to get the files that I emailed to him and he felt like he won by being seated next to me. So whatever you take, just be considerate of those around you and make sure that you aren't hobbled too much with your lens choices.


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## JonAustin (Apr 8, 2015)

YuengLinger said:


> ... sort of like the uncle who brings all his gear to a big wedding that already has a photographer.



Hey, wait a minute, I'm that uncle!! Well, sort of. I don't bring _all_ my gear! 

I am the more-or-less official family photographer, probably by default, since I have the most gear and am also the most shameless (least bashful?) about using it. That said, while I do carry, I don't shoot if no one else in the audience is doing so, or if it would be inappropriate / cause a scene. I "let the spirit move me." While not always discreet, I do make a concerted effort to be appropriate to the venue and occasion.

My sister's youngest is graduating from high school next month, and I've photographed each of his older siblings' HS grad ceremonies, so it might be perceived as a snub if I skipped his. My sister is very appreciative of the photographs, even if the kids aren't. I just try to get one or two shots of the processional, one of them walking across the platform to receive their diplomas, and one or two during the recessional. Then I switch to a "normal range" zoom, and shoot all the post-ceremony shots they request with their friends and family.

I used to use a 70-200/2.8 + 1.4x TC, but the school has a new campus and larger auditorium, and so I'm eager to put the 100-400 II through its paces. (I have used flash in the past, and will be doing so this time, as well, unless there's been a policy change.)

I may have the biggest, whitest lens in the audience, but I'm far outnumbered by the sheer volume of cam-phones and P&S wielders who flash away non-stop.

To the OP: Go for the 200-400!


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## JonAustin (Apr 8, 2015)

No Mayo said:


> I made friends with the person that was the most affected by my presence and emailed them shots of their son. This is my main point. If you are penalizing any strangers with your photo girth, ask politely for their understanding and offer to shoot for them as well. The man sitting next to me was thrilled to get the files that I emailed to him and he felt like he won by being seated next to me.



Awesome!


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## Al Chemist (Apr 8, 2015)

My 2 cents...I tend to try to keep a low profile in my Grandkid events so I use my 6D with the 135L f2. The pictures are highly appreciated by my daughter! On the other hand, I would go with whatever equipment you are comfortable with...these are once in a lifetime events!

Alan, congratulations to your daughter on the MS in Chemistry. Old chemistry professor here...she should get a laugh out of my login name. 

Richard


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## Chisox2335 (Apr 8, 2015)

Andyx01 said:


> You may want to avoid using a prime and go for a more flexible fast zoom like the Sigma 200-500mm f/2.8



I seriously hope this is sarcasm not transferring over the Internet well.


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## AcutancePhotography (Apr 8, 2015)

Chisox2335 said:


> Andyx01 said:
> 
> 
> > You may want to avoid using a prime and go for a more flexible fast zoom like the Sigma 200-500mm f/2.8
> ...



Why? Depending on the environment, the Sigma 200-500 may be just the range desired.


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## scyrene (Apr 8, 2015)

Maybe I'm weird, but I'm glad of the times I took a camera to events - but then I don't go to many. I love looking back at photos that capture things I couldn't possibly remember, and actually regret not doing it more. Of course, you're not living in the moment as much. If it's something you want to enjoy totally, I wouldn't take a camera at all (except a phone). Otherwise it can be a valuable record - but then I'm prone to nostalgia


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## Act444 (Apr 8, 2015)

I have to agree. There are times where I just said "screw it" and went all out...and then there have been many other times where I compromised and took either a smaller camera or no camera at all...

Personally, I would be a bit hesitant in an environment like that, but then again, I am the type that typically doesn't LIKE to draw attention to myself...it just so happens that it's occasionally a side effect of the camera setup necessary to get the level of shots I want. Groan... 

I find that the attention isn't necessarily bad or negative, at least in the vast majority of cases. It does get old though explaining again and again that I am not an official shooter, part of a media outfit, etc.


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