# Shallow DOF vs lighting



## steyr (Jun 24, 2014)

Hi all, my first post at canonrumours! 

For portraits where you have time to mess around a bit, if you had to pick between shallow DOF or off camera lighting, which would you choose? Which technique alone do you think makes better portraits?


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## RLPhoto (Jun 24, 2014)

Lighting is everything, irregardless of shallow or Deep DOF. Lighting can be anything from a flashlight to a reflector to a bank of broncolor strobes to shade under a tree but getting the proper light is what makes great portraiture. 

Now if I had to choose natural light or off camera flash, I'll shoot flash when I can use it and natural if I can find it. Either way I'll be manipulating the light somehow to make it better.


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## skoobey (Jun 26, 2014)

Ahahhahah. Funniest thing ever.

If you have to ask, your answer is DOF, and you know it.

Why, because there is a little thing called the sun, plus if you know what you're doing, you can make magic with reflector and single continuos light.



RLPhoto said:


> Lighting is everything, irregardless of shallow or Deep DOF. Lighting can be anything from a flashlight to a reflector to a bank of broncolor strobes to shade under a tree but getting the proper light is what makes great portraiture.
> 
> Now if I had to choose natural light or off camera flash, I'll shoot flash when I can use it and natural if I can find it. Either way I'll be manipulating the light somehow to make it better.



True, but there is simply no way to get shallow DOF in post production, while there is plenty of ways to light an image properly without an actual flash unit.


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## wickidwombat (Jun 26, 2014)

skoobey said:


> Ahahhahah. Funniest thing ever.
> 
> If you have to ask, your answer is DOF, and you know it.
> 
> ...


You are still effectively saying lighting is more important which it is regardless of how the lighting is achieved it is still much more important be it window light , studio strobes, speed lights or a simple reflector or scrim. Light is king . the end.


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## BL (Jun 26, 2014)

steyr said:


> Hi all, my first post at canonrumours!
> 
> For portraits where you have time to mess around a bit, if you had to pick between shallow DOF or off camera lighting, which would you choose? Which technique alone do you think makes better portraits?



I choose *both*!












why force yourself to choose between one or the other?


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## kbmelb (Jun 26, 2014)

Most of my work relies on artificial light but some of my favorite portraits have come shooting midday with a well place 86" shoot-thru umbrella diffusing the harsh sun. Then you can play with the DoF all you want. Although I usually the mood I'm trying to achieve dictate the DoF.

A fun thing to do is get a light that powers down to 2-2.5ws and put on an Octo/Soft box with internal baffle and shoot shallow with a strobe. 

A pricey fluorescent panel is an option too.


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## RLPhoto (Jun 26, 2014)

skoobey said:


> Ahahhahah. Funniest thing ever.
> 
> If you have to ask, your answer is DOF, and you know it.
> 
> ...


True but shallow DOF doesn't always make a good portrait while deep DOF with great lighting will always make a good portrait. Plus, it sucks having to depend on sunlight all the time for photos. 

Shallow DOF <<<<< Lighting


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## jrista (Jun 26, 2014)

BL said:


> steyr said:
> 
> 
> > Hi all, my first post at canonrumours!
> ...



I like this answer! I totally agree...if you have the option to control both, control both! Simple as that. Your photos are superbalicious, btw. LOVE that DOF, and the lighting is excellent!


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## steyr (Jun 26, 2014)

Thanks for all your responses! 

Having both is certainly ideal, but I find myself forcing to choose one or the other. Shooting on a 7D, when using a long lens for shallow DOF, I need to stand further away from the subject and the lightstand. In windy conditions, the lightstand gets blown over all the time :-\ Sure I could use a sandbag, but it's a lot of extra weight to carry. My wife already dislikes the idea of me carrying lots of gear when we go out.

So I like to put my foot on the lightstand, which needs to be relatively close to the subject. In that case, I'll need to use a wider angle lens -> reducing blur.

I guess the ultimate solution is to go full frame!


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## mackguyver (Jun 26, 2014)

steyr said:


> Hi all, my first post at canonrumours!
> 
> For portraits where you have time to mess around a bit, if you had to pick between shallow DOF or off camera lighting, which would you choose? Which technique alone do you think makes better portraits?


Welcome to CR and as the others have said, this isn't an either or question. The beauty of SLRs is that you can control all aspects of the shot. Aperture, shutter speed, and ISO control exposure, depth of field and more. If you would like to learn more about this, one of the better sites out there is this one: 
http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials.htm


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## skoobey (Jun 26, 2014)

Just use a bigger lighting modifier tho compensate for standing further away. Done.


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## Viggo (Jun 26, 2014)

BL said:


> steyr said:
> 
> 
> > Hi all, my first post at canonrumours!
> ...



Superb shots!

And i agree , choose both, but ND filter or some serious HSS power is needed in sun light.


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## BL (Jun 26, 2014)

steyr said:


> Thanks for all your responses!
> 
> Having both is certainly ideal, but I find myself forcing to choose one or the other. Shooting on a 7D, when using a long lens for shallow DOF, I need to stand further away from the subject and the lightstand. In windy conditions, the lightstand gets blown over all the time :-\ Sure I could use a sandbag, but it's a lot of extra weight to carry. My wife already dislikes the idea of me carrying lots of gear when we go out.
> 
> ...



if you need to stand further away, just PP your stand out if it's in your shot. I do that all the time when I need an environmental portrait with a wide angle but want to light my subjects with strobes.

In regards to sandbags, I generally leave those at home unless I know I'll be "shooting from the car". My gear bags are heavy enough to play dual roles and generally keep stands in place when needed.

And I disagree about FF being the ultimate solution (for lighting). I actually prefer using my crop sensor M when I'm using speedlites in broad daylight since I don't need to stop down as far for DOF, giving me faster recycles and more headroom in regards to flash power.



jrista said:


> Your photos are superbalicious, btw. LOVE that DOF, and the lighting is excellent!


Thank you kindly!


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## Besisika (Jun 26, 2014)

steyr said:


> Hi all, my first post at canonrumours!
> 
> For portraits where you have time to mess around a bit, if you had to pick between shallow DOF or off camera lighting, which would you choose? Which technique alone do you think makes better portraits?


Since you have to choose, I suggest to use natural light and take advantage of proper compression using focal length between 135 - 200mm. Use a bear flash for rim and hair light, this way you won't need any modifier and thus a trouble with the wind. Choose your location and the direction of the sun (even under shade) wisely. Since you have time, experiment.


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## 3kramd5 (Jun 26, 2014)

steyr said:


> Hi all, my first post at canonrumours!
> 
> For portraits where you have time to mess around a bit, if you had to pick between shallow DOF or off camera lighting, which would you choose?




Don't choose; use high-speed sync or ND filters to allow wide apertures with off camera lighting.


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## awinphoto (Jun 26, 2014)

You know, sitting in our hospital room watching my newborn daughter struggle to live it really helps to put in perspective life and choices and finances as I can see a large chunk of my disposable income going towards medical expenses to my daughter born with defects. If you know photoshop it is incredibly easy to blur backgrounds with any novice understanding of layers, masks, and blur. Lenses are great, but let's be frank, you cannot fix bad lighting. You can try to remedy it but you cannot redirect light. You cannot soften raccoon lighting. And if you have sepia able income to say buy both, we have a donation page to help with medical expenses.


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## 3kramd5 (Jun 26, 2014)

awinphoto said:


> You know, sitting in our hospital room watching my newborn daughter struggle to live it really helps to put in perspective life...



heavy.

Congratulations on the birth of your daughter. I hope you'll find a way to help her.


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## BL (Jun 26, 2014)

Another tip, get a set of multicoated ND filters if you want to shoot with speedlites during the day. I stopped bothering with HSS since I found the power output to be really poor with anything but bare flash and my battery life really suffered as well.

I use a 3stop and a 6stop ND.

3stop ND for apertures from f/2 - f/5.6 @ 1/250 xsync in daylight
6stop ND for when I want to shoot wide open @ f/1.2 @ 1/250 xsync, or when I need to bump my ISO to 800-1600 for fast recycle times or more power.


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## sagittariansrock (Jun 26, 2014)

steyr said:


> Thanks for all your responses!
> 
> Having both is certainly ideal, but I find myself forcing to choose one or the other. Shooting on a 7D, when using a long lens for shallow DOF, I need to stand further away from the subject and the lightstand. In windy conditions, the lightstand gets blown over all the time :-\ Sure I could use a sandbag, but it's a lot of extra weight to carry. My wife already dislikes the idea of me carrying lots of gear when we go out.
> 
> ...



You can compromise on shallowness of DoF and still get excellent pictures.
I can't see how one can compromise on lighting and get even good pictures.
Camera bag is an excellent solution, but you can be resourceful otherwise and find something else to support your light stand. 
Or get a faster wide angle lens. I am guessing you don't shoot portraits wider than 35mm anyway and both the 35L and the 50L provide plenty shallow DoF with close subject distances. Even the 35/2 and 50/1.4 (@1.8) will work quite well.


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