# An Update to the EOS 70D Coming Soon? [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Nov 14, 2015)

```
We’re told that Canon will have some kind of an update to the EOS 70D before we see an 80D. Perhaps an EOS 70Da?</p>
<p>While the source didn’t know the name of the new camera, they did give us the following info.</p>
<ul>
<li>Same AF system as 70D</li>
<li>24 megapixel sensor with dual-pixel AF</li>
<li>A bit larger buffer</li>
<li>DIGIC 6.</li>
</ul>
<p>We were not given an announcement date for the camera. If such a camera is coming soon, CES in January would be the likely announcement time. </p>
```


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## Chaitanya (Nov 14, 2015)

*Re: An Update to the EOS 70D Coming? [CR1]*

so a midlife upgrade to delay the successor? I thought Canon might actually provide a big firmware update like they did with 7D to keep camera releavent.


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## Orangutan (Nov 14, 2015)

*Re: An Update to the EOS 70D Coming? [CR1]*

 

A 70Da I would understand, but how does it make sense to offer a camera that's worth the R&D process, but is still not "enough" to be an 80D? Maybe they have some big new tech to drop in the 80D, but need a bridge solution. CR1, after all.

Another possibility is that someone saw a 70D in use as a test-bed for a new sensor. That would make some sense.


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## Plainsman (Nov 14, 2015)

*Re: An Update to the EOS 70D Coming? [CR1]*

... trying to catch up with the D7100....


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## ajfotofilmagem (Nov 14, 2015)

*Re: An Update to the EOS 70D Coming? [CR1]*



Orangutan said:


> A 70Da I would understand, but how does it make sense to offer a camera that's worth the R&D process, but is still not "enough" to be an 80D? Maybe they have some big new tech to drop in the 80D, but need a bridge solution. CR1, after all.
> 
> Another possibility is that someone saw a 70D in use as a test-bed for a new sensor. That would make some sense.


You read my mind. I agree with the possibility of a new 70Da, and on Canon 70D using a body to test a new sensor.


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## 9VIII (Nov 14, 2015)

*Re: An Update to the EOS 70D Coming? [CR1]*

This gives me hope that the 80D is full frame. I was thinking they would take that route until they started talking about resolutiuon so much, but if they just do a mid-cycle upgrade for the 70D then they could push both resolution and full frame.
This begs the question then, if they boost the 70D, how about the 7D?


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## 9VIII (Nov 14, 2015)

*Re: An Update to the EOS 70D Coming? [CR1]*



Plainsman said:


> ... trying to catch up with the D7100....



I hope not.

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/nikon-d7200/nikon-d7200A6.HTM


> Continuous H mode
> 14-bit Lossless RAW
> 
> 0.20 second (4.89 frames per second);


(Yes, that's the D7200, but we should be comparing with Nikon's latest and greatest.)


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 14, 2015)

*Re: An Update to the EOS 70D Coming? [CR1]*



9VIII said:


> This gives me hope that the 80D is full frame. I was thinking they would take that route until they started talking about resolutiuon so much, but if they just do a mid-cycle upgrade for the 70D then they could push both resolution and full frame.
> This begs the question then, if they boost the 70D, how about the 7D?




Forget about a 80D being full frame. XXD cameras are crop A 8D might be the FF equivalent


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## ScottyP (Nov 14, 2015)

*Re: An Update to the EOS 70D Coming? [CR1]*



ajfotofilmagem said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > A 70Da I would understand, but how does it make sense to offer a camera that's worth the R&D process, but is still not "enough" to be an 80D? Maybe they have some big new tech to drop in the 80D, but need a bridge solution. CR1, after all.
> ...



Is there a precedent for an "a" camera? I have seen an Astro version of the 60d, but that seems like a fairly small market already covered by the 60d version. That is not what you guys mean, is it?


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## ajfotofilmagem (Nov 14, 2015)

*Re: An Update to the EOS 70D Coming? [CR1]*



ScottyP said:


> ajfotofilmagem said:
> 
> 
> > Orangutan said:
> ...


Whereas Canon 60Da is no longer manufactured, it would be natural substitute a 70Da that leverages almost all already available parts, saving development cost.


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## Proscribo (Nov 14, 2015)

*Re: An Update to the EOS 70D Coming? [CR1]*



9VIII said:


> This gives me hope that the 80D is full frame. I was thinking they would take that route until they started talking about resolutiuon so much, but if they just do a mid-cycle upgrade for the 70D then they could push both resolution and full frame.
> This begs the question then, if they boost the 70D, how about the 7D?


What? Why on earth would XXD camera be FF. I think the closest camera is 5DIII or the possible 6DII, I'm personally 99,999999999% sure that 80D won't be FF, there's simply no point making it into one.



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Forget about a 80D being full frame. XXD cameras are crop A 8D might be the FF equivalent


Yes, 8D would probably be FF, however I'd think it would be pretty much a 6D specs-wise, maybe in even smaller body? It would actually make sense as 6D is in every way (I think?) worse than 7DII apart from the sensor.


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## 9VIII (Nov 14, 2015)

*Re: An Update to the EOS 70D Coming? [CR1]*



Proscribo said:


> 9VIII said:
> 
> 
> > This gives me hope that the 80D is full frame. I was thinking they would take that route until they started talking about resolutiuon so much, but if they just do a mid-cycle upgrade for the 70D then they could push both resolution and full frame.
> ...



The 6D is already the same price as the 7D2 (or less), and the 7D already breaks the idea of "single digit = FF". The 6D2 is "moving upmarket" which makes sense given that it's probably just going to be a wi-fi enabled 5D3.
With the 7D filling the "high end crop" space, and the 760D effectively taking the same space as the 70D, really there's no need to make another xxD body ever again.
Or they could use that space to launch their $1,000 full frame body.


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## Proscribo (Nov 14, 2015)

*Re: An Update to the EOS 70D Coming? [CR1]*



9VIII said:


> The 6D is already the same price as the 7D2 (or less), and the 7D already breaks the idea of "single digit = FF". The 6D2 is "moving upmarket" which makes sense given that it's probably just going to be a wi-fi enabled 5D3.
> With the 7D filling the "high end crop" space, and the 760D effectively taking the same space as the 70D, really there's no need to make another xxD body ever again.
> Or they could use that space to launch their $1,000 full frame body.


There's plenty of room between 70D and 7DII for one body (90D would possibly do the same as 70D did with 7D, as in it could be almost 7DII). 760D is a bit like 70D but then again.. it's not even close, pentamirror, crappy buffer and slow burst, just to mention a few. Also you couldn't really make that FF camera have worse specs than 70D, which means that it would possibly be even better spec'd than 6DII with at least 7fps, flippy screen, good buffer, semi-weathersealed, for example.

I suppose that 6DII is best candidate for being your "FF 80D", or even current 5DIII.


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## jolyonralph (Nov 14, 2015)

Unless it's specifically designed for astrophotography it won't be a 70Da

I would suspect if it's not an 80D (and why wouldn't it be? - we've had relatively minor increments in the past before, eg 600D to 650D and 10D to 20D) then a 75D might be more likely.


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## AvTvM (Nov 14, 2015)

if there will be a successor at all. Let's face it. All Rebels and xxD mirrorflippers could be replaced with really great APSC-C mirrorless cameras plus EF/EF-S adapter in the box any day. Time to move on.


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## Mitch.Conner (Nov 14, 2015)

Lots of misinformation about this one. Here are the facts:

- It will be full frame.
- It will have 12 fps continuous.
- It will be 60-70 MP.
- It will have 6k video.
- AF will be taken from the 5DIII.
- It will be $300-$400 MSRP initially, but the price will come down eventually to $20-$30.

Glad to be of help.


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## Proscribo (Nov 14, 2015)

Mitch.Conner said:


> ...
> - It will be 60-70 MP.
> ...


Actually this gave me an idea: it'll have variable resolution! Something like 8MP-70MP would do it, choose whatever you want! 8)


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## ashmadux (Nov 14, 2015)

Can only be a good thing.

70d is a beautiful camera with beautiful handling...and the only canon camera to use that 20mp sensor.

Im glad the one that i bought had completely busted AF, that's why i went ahead and bought my 5d3, which has GODLY AF.

It could be that they just want to move to one sensor so they dont have to produce that one anymore.


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## midluk (Nov 14, 2015)

*Re: An Update to the EOS 70D Coming? [CR1]*

Perhaps they are trying to delay running out of names for xxD cameras? They only have 80D and 90D left.


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## MintChocs (Nov 14, 2015)

ashmadux said:


> I think you hit the nail on the head. In an effort to reduce costs and keep profits up as they did with the 18mp sensor.


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## mrsfotografie (Nov 14, 2015)

MintChocs said:


> ashmadux said:
> 
> 
> > I think you hit the nail on the head. In an effort to reduce costs and keep profits up as they did with the 18mp sensor.



This could make sense, however it may be just about a firmware upgrade only. Something that will release extra features like the 7D firmware at the time.


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## 9VIII (Nov 15, 2015)

*Re: An Update to the EOS 70D Coming? [CR1]*



Proscribo said:


> 9VIII said:
> 
> 
> > The 6D is already the same price as the 7D2 (or less), and the 7D already breaks the idea of "single digit = FF". The 6D2 is "moving upmarket" which makes sense given that it's probably just going to be a wi-fi enabled 5D3.
> ...



There's no reason a full frame 80D needs to have amazing AF, people will still be comparing it with the 5D2 and 6D. That's basically the performance standard it needs to hit.


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## StudentOfLight (Nov 15, 2015)

mrsfotografie said:


> MintChocs said:
> 
> 
> > ashmadux said:
> ...


I don't have a 70D, so I'm wondering what kinds of firmware goodness could be unlocked?


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## kaptainkatsu (Nov 15, 2015)

*Re: An Update to the EOS 70D Coming? [CR1]*



midluk said:


> Perhaps they are trying to delay running out of names for xxD cameras? They only have 80D and 90D left.



Never fear, there are weird ways to get around running out of numbers. Look at Porsche for example and their 911 chassis codes. 911, 930, 964, 993, 996, 997, 991.

Canon could drop back down to 15D and continue on for the next 10 years, 15D, 25D, 35D, 45D... or go into the x000D series. Maybe make the x0D series into the x000D and since the x00D series is also running out of numbers, either make the global numbering system into xT[s/i] or x500D or vice versa.


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## 9VIII (Nov 15, 2015)

*Re: An Update to the EOS 70D Coming? [CR1]*



kaptainkatsu said:


> midluk said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps they are trying to delay running out of names for xxD cameras? They only have 80D and 90D left.
> ...



Maybe they can adopt the higher end naming and just make a 70DMkII?
Since the 7D is always going to be the 7D, maybe the "next model down" sports crop body can just always be called the 70D.
And then they could make a 50DMkII to be a high resolution landscape oriented crop body (or full frame?), and then a 10D that's just a 70D with an integrated grip.


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## crashpc (Nov 15, 2015)

While low end already has pathetic FPS, buffer depth, very inferior focusing system, less control, why not to do sub $1000 "black box" with sensor in eos M style? Is the plastic body where you break down? I don't nelleve so.

28 Mpx old tech sensor, simple box with basic controls, and a touch screen.
If they could do that with M10, why not alao breath fresh air into FF ground?

I mean nobody would wonder about pathetic 3.7FPS burst rate with buffer depth of 7 images. That's already normal with Canon.


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## mrsfotografie (Nov 15, 2015)

StudentOfLight said:


> mrsfotografie said:
> 
> 
> > MintChocs said:
> ...



I also don't have a 70D but Canon does limit some models' functionality through the firmware according their product placement strategy. 7D firmware 2.0 for instance included improved continuous-shooting buffer depth (to 25 Raws, up from the original 15), customizable Auto ISO, control of audio recording level for video and the ability to re-process Raws and rate images in-camera. The EOS-M got an update that significantly increased AF speed, etc.


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## AvTvM (Nov 15, 2015)

*Re: An Update to the EOS 70D Coming? [CR1]*



midluk said:


> Perhaps they are trying to delay running out of names for xxD cameras? They only have 80D and 90D left.



end of Canon camera naming scheme fits in very well with some ancient predictions ... regarding the end of the DSLR world ... also referred to as MIRRORSLAPPER ARMAGEDDON ... repent you optical-viewfinder sinners, the end is near ... I can see it coming ... the number of the beast ... is written on the wall ... EOS 99D and EOS Rebel 999D ... they shall be the last of their kind upon earth ... we shall gather out of our imaging kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; and shall cast them into a furnace of fire: there shall be wailing and gnashing of teeth [see Mt 13:41-42] ... as the new kingdom of mirrorless cameras cometh ... and we shall see the light unobstructed by smoke and mirrors in its path ... in astounding silence, free of thrashing mirrors ... no more vibrations spoiling our images of tranquil landscapes ... the terrible curse of micro-AF-adjustment that has plagued us for so long shall be revoked ... refracting glass prisms and humps before our eyes shall be taken away ... relieved of our daily burden ... no more heavy loads of imaging gear to carry to even the most remote places on earth ... eternal bliss shall be ours ... Amen! ;D


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## candc (Nov 15, 2015)

StudentOfLight said:


> mrsfotografie said:
> 
> 
> > MintChocs said:
> ...



the af point selection is limited to 3 modes now. spot and expansion modes could be unlocked. possibly improved auto iso functionality and an improvement to the buffer capacity?


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## Jet20 (Nov 15, 2015)

I agree with those that this is merely about consolidating sensor production processes - replacing a 20 MP sensor with crappy high ISO by an even crappier 24 MP sensor makes zero sense!

Will we ever get a crop camera with LESS megapixels and MORE sensitivity?


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## crashpc (Nov 15, 2015)

Jet20: It would be nice to have both. 12Mpx crop camera, and also 32Mpx crop camera.


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## Orangutan (Nov 15, 2015)

*Re: An Update to the EOS 70D Coming? [CR1]*



AvTvM said:


> repent you optical-viewfinder sinners, the end is near ...
> 
> ... eternal bliss shall be ours ... Amen! ;D



I'm willing to consider conversion to your faith as soon as someone resolves some very serious concerns in your Scriptural Books of _"Battery Life"_, "_EVF Lag_," and "_Tracking Focus,_" as well as multiple oddments in both books of "_Ergonomics._"


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## privatebydesign (Nov 15, 2015)

Jet20 said:


> Will we ever get a crop camera with LESS megapixels and MORE sensitivity?





crashpc said:


> Jet20: It would be nice to have both. 12Mpx crop camera, and also 32Mpx crop camera.





ajfotofilmagem said:


> We are a minority in Canon Rumors. :-\
> But I also want to have my choice an APS-C 12 megapixel camera with optimal performance in ISO3200, and another model 30 megapixel to printing on large size.





Just downsample, it has been demonstrated time and time again to be as close as makes no difference to the same thing when done with same generation sensors.

Look at the 5DS/R downsampled to 5D MkIII etc etc.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Nov 15, 2015)

crashpc said:


> Jet20: It would be nice to have both. 12Mpx crop camera, and also 32Mpx crop camera.


We are a minority in Canon Rumors. :-\
But I also want to have my choice an APS-C 12 megapixel camera with optimal performance in ISO3200, and another model 30 megapixel to printing on large size.


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## Orangutan (Nov 15, 2015)

Jet20 said:


> I agree with those that this is merely about consolidating sensor production processes - replacing a 20 MP sensor with crappy high ISO by an even crappier 24 MP sensor makes zero sense!
> 
> Will we ever get a crop camera with LESS megapixels and MORE sensitivity?



I have 70D and like it very much. Though I would like more high ISO, not at the expense of MP for cropping.

It's always puzzling how posters seem offended that Canon isn't giving them exactly the camera they want. You people need to realize that you are the minority. Canon does market research, they know what sells, as do Nikon. Sony has made a few people happy with their "S" mirrorless cameras, but it's a niche product (I think of them as paparazzi cameras). 

Low MP is basically dead, except for a few niche products. No big profits will be made from low MP sensors, and that tells the story.


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## ashmadux (Nov 15, 2015)

Jet20 said:


> replacing a 20 MP sensor with crappy high ISO by an even crappier 24 MP sensor makes zero sense!



Wait, wha?

Neither of the sensors are crappy by any means....well, unless you a re a sony fanboy


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## EOBeav (Nov 15, 2015)

ashmadux said:


> Neither of the sensors are crappy by any means....



I've been saying this for a long time: If you can't put a good lens in front of a currently produced Rebel and come out with a nice image, the problem isn't the equipment.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Nov 15, 2015)

EOBeav said:


> ashmadux said:
> 
> 
> > Neither of the sensors are crappy by any means....
> ...


In fact, I can not complain about the image quality of my 70D, up to ISO1600. Obviously, I'd like ISO6400 had less noise, but I know at this price point, 70D performs well.

For those who only use ISO100, underexpose 5 stops, and then lift the shadows, the problem is NOT the camera ... :


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## Plainsman (Nov 15, 2015)

Jet20 said:


> I agree with those that this is merely about consolidating sensor production processes - replacing a 20 MP sensor with crappy high ISO by an even crappier 24 MP sensor makes zero sense!
> 
> Will we ever get a crop camera with LESS megapixels and MORE sensitivity?




...plenty of 20Ds on the market ideal for you!


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## unfocused (Nov 15, 2015)

It seems like people are misreading this rumor. When Craig mentions a 70Da, I believe he is referencing a replacement for the 60Da (as in Astro) that was optimized for astro-photography.


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## Orangutan (Nov 15, 2015)

unfocused said:


> It seems like people are misreading this rumor.



Nope.




Canon Rumors said:


> <ul>
> <li>Same AF system as 70D</li>
> <li>*24 megapixel sensor with dual-pixel AF*</li>
> <li>*A bit larger buffer*</li>
> ...



A 70Da would probably not get an entirely new sensor, just one with modified filter in front of the sensor, and it certainly wouldn't require a larger buffer.


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## Bennymiata (Nov 15, 2015)

I hope they won't get rid of DPAF.
It's a lifesaver for video, which is what I mainly use it for.


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## Tom W (Nov 16, 2015)

I'm kind of envisioning a modest update to the 70D, with the newer sensor from the T6i body. Maybe some modest AF tweaks, etc., but I wouldn't expect a large amount of change. 

My thought would be that it would have to come out very soon to be beneficial for the holiday/Christmas season.


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## Zv (Nov 16, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> Jet20 said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with those that this is merely about consolidating sensor production processes - replacing a 20 MP sensor with crappy high ISO by an even crappier 24 MP sensor makes zero sense!
> ...



Yup, sensors now are really good even at high ISO, regardless of how many MP there are. It doesn't seem to hinder high ISO that much. Plus the extra resolution is necessary these days with 4K screens and possibly higher res coming soon. And then the ability to crop the image and still get decent res out of it is beneficial to a lot to folk. 18 - 24MP seems standard anything less seems backwards. A few more wouldn't hurt at all.


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## Don Haines (Nov 16, 2015)

If there is a new sensor them it will be a new model number, not an update....

An update is a firmware update.....

An update will be replacing background components for better performance (larger buffer, faster processor, etc)

Drastically changing primary specs (megapixels) means new manuals, software, advertising materials..... pretty well all the work that would be required of a new model release, yet they would take none of the advantages. There is no way the marketing people are not going to take advantage of that and let a new model release slip past without taking advantage of it....


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## dufflover (Nov 16, 2015)

I really like my 70D, not sure what they would be willing to improve on in that model - knowing what the other products are around I mean. Sure, deeper buffer would be handy, maybe some of the 7D2 AF smarts even with fewer points, and the ever going DR/sensor debate (I'm all for more DR regardless ofcourse) but otherwise my view is kinda limited.
As for DPAF, yep definitely a fan, but if they replace it for another type of Live View AF that's on a different sensor like a 24MP then I don't really mind. As long as it's better/comparable they can call it whatever they want lol


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## scyrene (Nov 16, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> Jet20 said:
> 
> 
> > Will we ever get a crop camera with LESS megapixels and MORE sensitivity?
> ...



Thank you for saying this!


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## mkabi (Nov 16, 2015)

> I will add that a known source has suggested that the EOS 7D Mark II will be the last of the “pro” APS-C cameras from Canon, take that for what its worth.
> 
> Read more: http://www.canonrumors.com#ixzz3remSG4ao



I will tell you this... its a sad day... when it comes down to this...
I was really hoping to see a 7DIII with some of the 1DXII's rumored specs, especially in the video department.


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## whothafunk (Nov 16, 2015)

i dont believe that about the 7D2 being the last of its kind. it's too early to know something like that, besides it's a rumor and rumors usually miss than hit a target. the rumors of the upcoming 7D2 were all but wrong (1D body, 24MP, 1DX AF, etc etc) until last minute when it was like less than a month before announcement.


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## tcmatthews (Nov 16, 2015)

I do not know how much stock I put in an update coming soon. Probably next year. But I hope it does not turnout to be a 7D II in a 70D body. That would suck because I just ordered a refurbished 7D II from Canon for $999 +tax. 

I would prefer a 70D body.


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## scyrene (Nov 16, 2015)

mkabi said:


> > I will add that a known source has suggested that the EOS 7D Mark II will be the last of the “pro” APS-C cameras from Canon, take that for what its worth.
> >
> > Read more: http://www.canonrumors.com#ixzz3remSG4ao
> 
> ...



Lol a rumour of a rumour? I'd expect any future camera to be more capable in most ways than current ones. But to be disappointed that a theoretical model that's years away might not have the capabilities of a model we still don't know anything for sure about seems a bit... defeatist. Stay positive!


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## Proscribo (Nov 16, 2015)

tcmatthews said:


> I do not know how much stock I put in an update coming soon. Probably next year. But I hope it does not turnout to be a 7D II in a 70D body. That would suck because I just ordered a refurbished 7D II from Canon for $999 +tax.
> 
> I would prefer a 70D body.


Don't worry, it's the 90D that's going to be 7DII in 70D-style body. 

I've got 70D atm and kinda wish I had the money to buy 7DII instead of this last year. Not like 70D is a bad cam but hey, if there's something better of course you'd want to buy the better one! Especially 7D's AF system and speeed could prove useful for me.


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## Luds34 (Nov 16, 2015)

tcmatthews said:


> I do not know how much stock I put in an update coming soon. Probably next year. But I hope it does not turnout to be a 7D II in a 70D body. That would suck because I just ordered a refurbished 7D II from Canon for $999 +tax.
> 
> I would prefer a 70D body.



Haha, I don't think you need to worry. I think Canon has settled into 2 levels of ergonomics. The "pro" level you find on the 5D/7D with the joystick, the 3 buttons (sharing 2 uses) in front of the LCD on top, stronger, beefier, weather sealed body, etc. Then you have their enthusiast style body you see with the 60D/70D/6D. I'd expect a 70D successor to carry on that body style.

Of course I hope they stick with DPAF, I'm a fan.


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## unfocused (Nov 16, 2015)

Ever since the first 7D came out, there have been rumors that the model would be dropped. Didn't happen. Instead Canon gave owners an essentially new model for free with the mid-life 7D firmware upgrade. When the 7DII came out it exceeded everyone's expectations. So now, once again we have the rumors that there won't be a 7DIII. 

The funny thing is that even Canon has not decided the fate of the 7DIII at this point in the life of the 7DII. I take those kinds of statements simply as evidence that the person floating such a rumor doesn't really have any actual knowledge.


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## bcflood (Nov 16, 2015)

There have been rumors that Nikon will announce a D400 along with their D5 announcement. I'd take that with a huge grain of salt, but if there is a little merit to it, I could see Canon trying to keep up in the crop specs. Canon could announce an 80D along side the 1DX Mk2. If the 80D has some increases in its buffer and low-light/AF performance, I'll be in line with my wallet ;D


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## whothafunk (Nov 16, 2015)

Even if the above statement happens (D400 appears), it will probably be on par with the 7D2, let alone 70D. Canon won't make a 80D to be a direct competitor to the so called D400, because that would mean it has to roll out a better 7D2 DSLR which means 7D3. A 80D? Don't kid yourself.


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## ahsanford (Nov 16, 2015)

My question on a 70D refresh rumor: leaving out the niche SL1 product, _do we still need 4 price points in APS-C SLRs?_


The budget folks buy Rebels without 'i's, like the T5 / 1200D. A bare bones SLR. These don't get refreshed every year, but I believe this is a good seller overseas.
The value folks buy the bread and butter nicer Rebels Canon makes all its money on, like the 750D/760D. Better video, flippy screens, more features, etc.
The enthusiast folks buy the 70D for the good stuff -- chunkier grip, top LCD, AFMA, DPAF, etc.
The long reach folks buy the 7D2 for workhorse sports/wildlife/birding assignments. That said, the camera is a fine all-purpose rig as well.

But, given that the Rebels seem to be snatching some of the nicer features (more AF points, top LCD, etc.) and given that the 7D2-level brand is not refreshed often and is not maintaining price terribly well, a future 80D has to thread a very difficult needle: be clearly better than any Rebel, but not so nice as to threaten 7D2 sales.

One could imagine a future where this 'middle-plus' APS-C offering goes away.

- A


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## unfocused (Nov 16, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> ...a future 80D has to thread a very difficult needle: be clearly better than any Rebel, but not so nice as to threaten 7D2 sales.



Alternatively, it could continue the path that the 70D began: a video-centric DSLR at an affordable price, for those who shoot more video than stills, but not exclusively video, and will never be in the market for a cinema line camera.

Keep the flip screen, keep the touch screen, DPAF, add headphone jack, 4K, higher frame rate for slow motion, but no CFast card (SD only), etc.

The 7D line remains the sports/wildlife shooters' camera and the XXD series diverges into a more video oriented model.


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## Famateur (Nov 16, 2015)

Interesting discussion so far.

I'm inclined to believe that if there's some sort of update to the 70D, it would be either a firmware update or a 70Da (for astrophotography, like the 60Da) -- in that order.

I'd hope it would be the former and that the firmware update would include exposure compensation for auto-ISO in manual mode.

In situations where light changes rapidly, I like to use auto-ISO with it limited to 1600. The downside is that it almost always over-exposes in outdoor situations. Because it's using ISO for the over-exposure, I get the double whammy of burned highlights and higher noise. If I could force it to dial back the exposure by a stop, that would really make life easier.


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## gsealy (Nov 17, 2015)

Famateur said:


> Interesting discussion so far.
> 
> I'm inclined to believe that if there's some sort of update to the 70D, it would be either a firmware update or a 70Da (for astrophotography, like the 60Da) -- in that order.
> 
> ...



This is an interesting post. I don't think a lot of people use auto-ISO. I use a Fuji X100T for street photography with auto-ISO as the light conditions change rapidly and I don't want to fiddle with settings and miss a shot. I have it set to max ISO at 3200, min shutter speed of 125 and aperture priority usually set to f4.0 (sharpest for the lens). If the camera can't get good exposure at those settings, then it lowers the shutter speed until the exposure is correct. I have not had a problem with overexposure although it does have an exposure compensation setting or I will stop it down. 

I am a huge Canon guy except for this camera, just so that is clear. And I am not bragging on the X100T. The thing I wanted to mention is that the auto-ISO is a nice feature for certain conditions. How the camera chooses to get it's settings, that is the algorithm, makes a difference. Basically I want it to pick the lowest ISO consistent with a minimum shutter speed of 125. It seems to do that.


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## Luds34 (Nov 17, 2015)

gsealy said:


> Famateur said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting discussion so far.
> ...



In fairness you are talking two (slightly) different things. On your X-T1 you are speaking of using exposure compensation in "Av" mode. You set a min shutter but let the camera pick. The 70D can do that. It's when you kick it to full manual, locking in an aperture and a shutter speed, but leaving Auto ISO on, that the camera does not allow one to adjust exposure compensation. It's kind of a weakness of nearly the entire Canon line. It has long bothered me why they left that out. My understanding is one can do it on a 1Dx (and 5D3?).


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## kaptainkatsu (Nov 17, 2015)

7d mark ii will let you exposure compensate auto iso


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## Muttonhead (Nov 17, 2015)

"I will add that a known source has suggested that the EOS 7D Mark II will be the last of the “pro” APS-C cameras from Canon, take that for what its worth."

Yes I will take it for what it's worth. I own both a 7DMKII and a 5DMKIII. The cropped sensor camera still has a purpose next to a FF. My first DSLR was actually a FF 5D, a 50D actually came after. I initially poo pooed the idea of a cropped camera, but came to my senses. 

I was at the Conowingo Dam today taking pics of Bald Eagles, along with probably another 100 photographers, no exaggeration. 1DX and the 7DMKII were the most popular camera. I was really surprised to see so many of them. I can definitely see a 7DMKIII down the road.


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## kaptainkatsu (Nov 17, 2015)

I really hope canon doesn't get rid of the 7D series. I just got one and it blows the 70D out of the water in a sports shooting sense (which is what I primarily do.) I do prefer the 70D w/ML for video. The flip touch screen is really useful which the 7Dm2 omits (I understand the reasoning but a fixed touch screen would have been nice.) The 7D really has no competition and it would be a shame if it went away. But we are still 4ish years away from a refresh according to history.


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## ahsanford (Nov 17, 2015)

kaptainkatsu said:


> I really hope canon doesn't get rid of the 7D series. I just got one and it blows the 70D out of the water in a sports shooting sense (which is what I primarily do.) I do prefer the 70D w/ML for video. The flip touch screen is really useful which the 7Dm2 omits (I understand the reasoning but a fixed touch screen would have been nice.) The 7D really has no competition and it would be a shame if it went away. But we are still 4ish years away from a refresh according to history.



It's also a strategic advantage for Canon to hang on to wildlife folks -- Nikon does not offer a similar high fps 'pro APS-C' rig.

- A


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## Don Haines (Nov 17, 2015)

kaptainkatsu said:


> I really hope canon doesn't get rid of the 7D series. I just got one and it blows the 70D out of the water in a sports shooting sense (which is what I primarily do.) I do prefer the 70D w/ML for video. The flip touch screen is really useful which the 7Dm2 omits (I understand the reasoning but a fixed touch screen would have been nice.) The 7D really has no competition and it would be a shame if it went away. But we are still 4ish years away from a refresh according to history.


I hope that by the time the 7D3 comes out, the camera will have an articulated touchscreen interface and a decent WiFi ap that will allow you to mimic the screen from a phone (or tablet). Articulated screens are nice, but something not even attached to the camera gives even more freedom.....


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## Toni (Nov 18, 2015)

At present, the DSLR technology is now obsolete due to the mirrorless cameras.
What people are expecting is that Canon and Nikon take out decent mirrorless cameras. M3 without a viewfinder or J1 with ridiculous sensor size sensor are not decent cameras.
New 80D, 5DS... are things of the past. It's like to try to sell film cameras where there are digital cameras. It's a nonsense.


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## Orangutan (Nov 18, 2015)

Toni said:


> At present, the DSLR technology is now obsolete due to the mirrorless cameras.


Except for battery life, fast/tracking autofocus and low-light focusing.




> *What people are expecting *is that Canon and Nikon take out decent mirrorless cameras.


Which people? Please cite your sources. (hint: your mirror doesn't count).


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## scyrene (Nov 18, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> Toni said:
> 
> 
> > At present, the DSLR technology is now obsolete due to the mirrorless cameras.
> ...



And ergonomics for some applications. You're being generous responding like that - if this newcomer isn't a genuine troll, their views are so ridiculous and partial, and put forward in such unrealistic terms, they're indistinguishable from one.


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## Orangutan (Nov 18, 2015)

scyrene said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > Toni said:
> ...



Yeah, I saw that it was first post, possibly a sock-puppet. I typically give potential trolls one free post before calling them out, in case it was a newbie error rather than true trolling.


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## Toni (Nov 18, 2015)

Mirrorless is about no mirror. Mirrorless is not about small, not ergonomic... This is the first thing to understand.
And as digital was the future for the film, mirrorless is the (near) future of DSLR. That's easy to see.


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## ahsanford (Nov 18, 2015)

Toni said:


> Mirrorless is about no mirror. Mirrorless is not about small, not ergonomic... This is the first thing to understand.
> And as digital was the future for the film, mirrorless is the (near) future of DSLR. That's easy to see.



This is a 70D update thread. A future 80D or 70Da will have a mirrror. 

I respect your view, but please try to stay on topic. There are tons of mirrorless threads elsewhere on this forum.

- A


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## Camerasheik (Nov 18, 2015)

I would think that there s plenty of latent ability within the 7Dmk2. All of that processing power really doesn't appear to be getting used.

I wonder (really hope so, I've got one) if the 7DMk2 will get a firmware update to improve it's performance. At the moment the 7D has just enough of a gap between it and the 5DMk3 to make the 5D still a viable choice. If the 7DMK2 had 1/2 a stop better noise / iso performance metering on any focus point, the 5DMK3 would be hard to justify except for the FF DOF benefit.

If the 5DMK4 has a useful performance gain over the MK3, that would give room to improve the 7DMK2 (keeping it competitive with Nikon in terms of noise) and in turn giving room to improve the 70D without it eating into 7DMK2 sales.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Nov 18, 2015)

Camerasheik said:


> I would think that there s plenty of latent ability within the 7Dmk2. All of that processing power really doesn't appear to be getting used.
> 
> I wonder (really hope so, I've got one) if the 7DMk2 will get a firmware update to improve it's performance. At the moment the 7D has just enough of a gap between it and the 5DMk3 to make the 5D still a viable choice. If the 7DMK2 had 1/2 a stop better noise / iso performance metering on any focus point, the 5DMK3 would be hard to justify except for the FF DOF benefit.
> 
> If the 5DMK4 has a useful performance gain over the MK3, that would give room to improve the 7DMK2 (keeping it competitive with Nikon in terms of noise) and in turn giving room to improve the 70D without it eating into 7DMK2 sales.


The idle processing capacity would not make any difference in noise at high ISO when shooting in RAW, but it could help only in JPEG. The current Canon cameras already have better noise performance at high ISO, and second only to Nikon at low ISO, due to reading noise that can not be solved only with image processing.

Could be added some features that are not limited by the existing hardware. For example, increasing the frame rate per second, or video 1080 / 60P.

In case 70D, this feature could gain anti fliker, for example.

I believe 5D Mark VI will have a performance increase to 7 or 8 frames per second, and do not think 7D Mark II will cannibalize sales.


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## Don Haines (Nov 18, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> Toni said:
> 
> 
> > Mirrorless is about no mirror. Mirrorless is not about small, not ergonomic... This is the first thing to understand.
> ...


It would be a very easy mod to make a 70D mirrorless.....

Take a set of pliers, grab mirror, break mirror off, use camera in live-view mode........


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## ahsanford (Nov 18, 2015)

Camerasheik said:


> I would think that there s plenty of latent ability within the 7Dmk2. All of that processing power really doesn't appear to be getting used.
> 
> I wonder (really hope so, I've got one) if the 7DMk2 will get a firmware update to improve it's performance. At the moment the 7D has just enough of a gap between it and the 5DMk3 to make the 5D still a viable choice. If the 7DMK2 had 1/2 a stop better noise / iso performance metering on any focus point, the 5DMK3 would be hard to justify except for the FF DOF benefit.
> 
> If the 5DMK4 has a useful performance gain over the MK3, that would give room to improve the 7DMK2 (keeping it competitive with Nikon in terms of noise) and in turn giving room to improve the 70D without it eating into 7DMK2 sales.



I appreciate the 7D2 might have a little more to give under the hood horsepower-wise, but I see the 7D2 and 5D3 being sold to _very_ different customers.

I am not saying a 5D3 can't shoot wildlife, and I am not saying a 7D2 can't shoot a wedding. There is certainly overlap in what they can do, but IMHO those cameras are aimed at different people. 

- A


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## scyrene (Nov 19, 2015)

Toni said:


> Mirrorless is about no mirror. Mirrorless is not about small, not ergonomic... This is the first thing to understand.
> And as digital was the future for the film, mirrorless is the (near) future of DSLR. That's easy to see.



The future of cameras is not ergonomic? Um :


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## hmatthes (Nov 19, 2015)

I would be thrilled to see a 70D firmware update to overcome the ISO compensation complaints -- but even *more important would be slightly better algorithms for noise reduction and dynamic range.*
The 70D, as is, is my perfect APS-c camera except that I would lust for *three "C" modes *on the selector & fewer "auto gizmo" modes. Can't do that with firmware (unless they include a new knob! hint... hint... hint)
I don't think that I would buy a new 70D replacement when my 70D will absolutely compliment the 5D-whatever which will be my next purchase.
Mr. Canon: Take the best of the 70D & 7DII and put them into the 5D-IV and I'll order it on day one!


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