# Lots of EOS 5D Mark IV Talk, None of it Reliable



## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 10, 2016)

```
We’re getting a lot of comments about the upcoming EOS 5D Mark IV, none of which I’d consider reliable. There have been lots of suggestions that Canon will launch the camera before the Photography Show which runs from March 19, 2016 until March 22, 2016 in Birmingham, UK. I think most suggestions are based on the fact that this was the first show that the EOS  5D Mark III was showcased at, however it was launched via a massively marketed global campaign, and was not announced <em>FOR </em>the show.</p>
<p>The most reliable information I currently have about the announcement date is that it will come after the EOS-1D X Mark II begins shipping, no other reliable source has disagreed with this.</p>
<p>The specification lists I’ve seen out there are likely conjecture. There seems to be a ton of clickbait articles about the EOS  5D Mark IV being passed around, and this is the first time I’ve seen these sorts of things for a camera launch.</p>
<p>There will be lots of talk about the EOS 5D Mark IV leading up to NAB in April, and I expect some information to make its way out during that time.</p>
<p>We’ll be attending NAB this year and will once again team up with Planet5D for the multi-site live blog, that I hope to actually post to this time. :)</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## Chaitanya (Mar 10, 2016)

its going to be meh... and further help Sony in improving sales of their A7 series of cameras.


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## rrcphoto (Mar 10, 2016)

Since when has canon EVER launched a camera at NAB?

"The most reliable information I currently have about the announcement date is that it will come after the EOS-1D X Mark II begins shipping, no other reliable source has disagreed with this."

seems a little ridiculous considering they didn't care the last go around when the 5D Mark III shipped before the 1DX.

not to mention odds are the C500 Mark II is coming out and is canon's crowning jewel at NAB this year.


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## DrToast (Mar 10, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> seems a little ridiculous considering they didn't care the last go around when the 5D Mark III shipped before the 1DX.



They did care. It only happened that way because the 1DX was delayed.


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## tron (Mar 10, 2016)

dilbert said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Since when has canon EVER launched a camera at NAB?
> ...


Any reason you are referring to it as 5DX instead of 5D4? Do you really believe Canon will name it 5DX?


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## Mr Majestyk (Mar 10, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> Since when has canon EVER launched a camera at NAB?
> 
> "The most reliable information I currently have about the announcement date is that it will come after the EOS-1D X Mark II begins shipping, no other reliable source has disagreed with this."
> 
> seems a little ridiculous considering they didn't care the last go around when the 5D Mark III shipped before the 1DX.



1DX was announced much earlier in October 2011 and was supposed to ship April 2012 and then delayed for what ever reason until June 2012. Given 1DX II will be shipping in 3-5 weeks, why would Canon announce 5DX before then?


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## Mr Majestyk (Mar 10, 2016)

tron said:


> Any reason you are referring to it as 5DX instead of 5D4? Do you really believe Canon will name it 5DX?



Because that's what it is to be called. Already been told by Canon employee testing the new camera they are dropping the mk IV name for 5DX, and that's as much as they would say, not even a hint at what specs were coming.


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## mkabi (Mar 10, 2016)

tron said:


> Any reason you are referring to it as 5DX instead of 5D4? Do you really believe Canon will name it 5DX?



Why not? Any reason why they named their power shots G1X, G3X, G5X???
I think that canon likes the 'X' moniker and will give any model that 'X' when they think it's time???


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## privatebydesign (Mar 10, 2016)

Mr Majestyk said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Since when has canon EVER launched a camera at NAB?
> ...



Massive issues following on from the 2011 tsunami.........


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## KeithBreazeal (Mar 10, 2016)

My gut feeling is that Canon is moving the 5DX up the line with more and better technology. I "see" features of the 1D X II being incorporated that bring it to an affordable alternative to the top of the line. Besides the GPS, I think the FPS will be a bit higher and a touch screen added. If the DR doesn't improve, sales will suck. I'm willing to bet that it will come close to the 1D X II. As far as MP go, I think it will be about the same as the 5D III but dual pixel. Canon could use the same chip as the 1D X II, saving costs, but that might be one step too far and give the 1D X II too much competition. Maybe a detuned version of the same design.


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## Sabaki (Mar 10, 2016)

I doubt it will be called 5DX myself as the 1DX was the merging of two different lines.

Although for other reasons, the only other Canon camera I see getting that moniker may be the 7D series as they are the best of the APSC bodies.

But, mere guess on my part. Who knows what Canon decides to call their wares?

We may see a Hello Kitty 5D for the ladies


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## Tangent (Mar 10, 2016)

Canon Rumors said:


> There seems to be a ton of clickbait articles about the EOS 5D Mark IV...



*cough * cough * 8)


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## plam_1980 (Mar 10, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> Since when has canon EVER launched a camera at NAB?
> 
> "The most reliable information I currently have about the announcement date is that it will come after the EOS-1D X Mark II begins shipping, no other reliable source has disagreed with this."
> 
> ...



To call it "ridiculous" is very self-confident. The last go around was the first time that they did this, if they have estimated that this has hurt the initial sales of 1DX or that this may be the case this go around, I think that it is very plausible. I suggested that someone should start a poll among those readers who have preordered 1DX2, what if any features of 5D IV would make them cancel their pre-orders. Seems interesting


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## Diltiazem (Mar 10, 2016)

Chaitanya said:


> its going to be meh... and further help Sony in improving sales of their A7 series of cameras.



Did you realize that more and more you started to sound like meh? 
If you didn't then get your Chaitanya elevated a bit. If you can't do it yourself, a professional might be of help.
Just a thought.


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## ExodistPhotography (Mar 10, 2016)

Mr Majestyk said:


> 1DX was announced much earlier in October 2011 and was supposed to ship April 2012 and then delayed for what ever reason until June 2012. Given 1DX II will be shipping in 3-5 weeks, why would Canon announce 5DX before then?



I agree, even if they have it for testing now. They are not going to release it and compete with their own products, the 1DX II in this case. 

I am personally not convinced the 5Dx will even come this year. While many were not pleased with the 5DS series, they are in fact still in the 5D line up. But even if they really cared about what their average consumer wants, it will be likely early to late fall before I expect the 5D to make an appearance. 

As far as new camera, the new 6D II is more likely to show up this year. As a entry level full frame, it would not compete with the 1DX customer base.


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## Fritz (Mar 10, 2016)

They might as well just announce/release it. Update is long long overdue & I bet Canon is losing body sales every day to the competition. Besides rumor mill is already strong enough that whoever still in the market for a 5D is going to wait for the 4/X. Also I don't think it'll steal any sales from the 1DX2, that's a whole other product segment..


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## plam_1980 (Mar 10, 2016)

Fritz said:


> They might as well just announce/release it. Update is long long overdue & I bet Canon is losing body sales every day to the competition. Besides rumor mill is already strong enough that whoever still in the market for a 5D is going to wait for the 4/X. Also I don't think it'll steal any sales from the 1DX2, that's a whole other product segment..



This "whole other product segment" mantra is funny to me, there are lots of people even here even today who are hesitating between 1DX and 5D III for lots of various reasons, why do you think it will be different with the new versions? Understand that not every photographer has just one definite segment where he takes pictures, and not every of the two cameras is specific to one segment and cannot be used in another. There are people who shoot sports with both cameras, there are people who shoot weddings with both cameras, there are journalists who use both cameras, yes one is more often used in each segment but that does not prohibit the use of the other.

And every loss of a client from 1dX2 to 5D IV will be a loss for Canon, why should they do it, when they can simply wait one more month to meet the pre-orders???


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## plam_1980 (Mar 10, 2016)

Fritz said:


> They might as well just announce/release it. Update is long long overdue & I bet Canon is losing body sales every day to the competition. Besides rumor mill is already strong enough that whoever still in the market for a 5D is going to wait for the 4/X. Also I don't think it'll steal any sales from the 1DX2, that's a whole other product segment..



What wager for the bet?


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## RGF (Mar 10, 2016)

It will be interesting to see how Canon differentiates the 5D4 from the 1DxM2.

Slowly FPS. Perhaps 5-8 vs 12/14. 
High resolution. Perhaps high 20's or low 30's
Sensory DR and high ISO. 1DX bested the 5DM3 at high ISO. Will that continue?

Other key metrics?

Then comes the question how does Canon defend against the Nikon D810 and Sony A7RII.

The 5DS/SR tops both in the MP war but lacks DR and high ISO capability (esp vs the A7RII).

Don't expect the 5D4 to top the D810 (or perhaps d820 when that comes out) - Canon will sandwich the camera between the 5DS and 5DM4. Perhaps canon is expecting that D820 will have the same sensor as the A7RII - in which a low to mid 30 MP camera would be well positioned.


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## tron (Mar 10, 2016)

mkabi said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > Any reason you are referring to it as 5DX instead of 5D4? Do you really believe Canon will name it 5DX?
> ...


Any reason why they named their 1D 1DMkII, 1DMkIIn, 1DMkIII, 1DMkIV ?


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## wockawocka (Mar 10, 2016)

The 5DX moniker isn't that unrealistic.

We had 1D and 1Ds, then they combined the line and went 1DX.

But we have a split 5D line now. Maybe, just maybe Canon have a revolutionary design to replace both.
5Dx and 5Dxs


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## AWR (Mar 10, 2016)

1DX and 5D3 launch - wasn't there Canon 75th anniversary, or something similar going on also...

NAB, or just few days before it, is great time for C500 II.
No way 5DX, but why not before. It seems Canon launches between or very close to these events. Maybe photokina is different story.


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## pierlux (Mar 10, 2016)

Tangent said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > There seems to be a ton of clickbait articles about the EOS 5D Mark IV...
> ...



Nevertheless, we're here, pleasantly speculating and discussing about the next iteration of the 5D line... what's wrong with it? 

I'm in the camp of those who don't believe in the "X" moniker, but



wockawocka said:


> The 5DX moniker isn't that unrealistic.
> 
> We had 1D and 1Ds, then they combined the line and went 1DX.
> 
> ...



this is one possibility. Sure, the 5Ds/sr are relatively new, but who knows what the 6D2 is going to be like? What about it moving upmarket not only in specs, but also in build quality and the 5D becoming the only high MP camera? Not probable, but possible, though again I don't believe this scenario.


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## rrcphoto (Mar 10, 2016)

Fritz said:


> They might as well just announce/release it. Update is long long overdue & I bet Canon is losing body sales every day to the competition.



why is it long overdue? 

5D Mark II to 5D Mark III was 3.5 years.
5D to 5D Mark II was 3 years.

It's just sitting at 4 years now.

according to amazon.com - the 5d Mark III #2 as far as full frame cameras, just under the D750. (#7 versus #6 respectively).


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## jeffa4444 (Mar 10, 2016)

I realise this is a US site but you really should not under estimate the draw now of The Photography Show. The Canon 5D MKIII was launched before The Photography Show which was the first show it made a public appearance at. Canon has a larger stand this year and has been heavily promoting its presence there. Secondly The UK has more Photographic magazines than any other country many of which are sold in the US and these provide part of the publicity manufacturers need they will all be at The Photography Show. 
If Canon dont launch it at the show then for impact the next best place is Photokina not NAB where they wll almost certainly fully showcase their 8K camera which they will not want diluted by the 5D IV / X this is primarily a trade show not a public show. The 5D MKII was launched at Photokina and it really was the star of the show if Canon has transformative tech in the new 5D they may just hold out till then.


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 10, 2016)

jeffa4444 said:


> I realise this is a US site



You realize incorrectly.


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## Fritz (Mar 10, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> Fritz said:
> 
> 
> > They might as well just announce/release it. Update is long long overdue & I bet Canon is losing body sales every day to the competition.
> ...



Because it's 2016 and the competition has not only caught up but leapfrogged the 2012 Canon 5D3. It's still a popular camera but simply because there is currently no replacement and many Canon users have glass invested in the eco-system. But objectively, an update is long overdue. It's even more outdated in the video world (where 5D3 was once king). Hopefully the 5D 4/X will bring 4K and maybe even the 1DX2 Canon Log, that and with improved DR, the 5D can claim it's top dog status again (and people like me who've switched will hurry back). All we're waiting for is the announcement / specs...


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## rrcphoto (Mar 10, 2016)

jeffa4444 said:


> I realise this is a US site but you really should not under estimate the draw now of The Photography Show. The Canon 5D MKIII was launched before The Photography Show which was the first show it made a public appearance at. Canon has a larger stand this year and has been heavily promoting its presence there.



it would indeed seem odd to NOT announce it at this show, and then turn around and announce / launch at NAB where they will most likely announce C500 Mark II.

Also would seem odd considering as far as I know, they have never announced a DSLR at NAB.

if it's coming out for the UK show, we'll get the info from digicam-info in a few days time.


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## rrcphoto (Mar 10, 2016)

Fritz said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
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> > Fritz said:
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only for those simply interested in specs. it's still obviously selling well.

the 5D3 was never the leader in video specs btw.

the earliest the 5DIV /X would come out would have been last March - summer time frame.


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## Big_Ant_TV_Media (Mar 10, 2016)

all these lack of leaks is a good thing yet bad thing 
i said months ago an april/june announcement window 
with the camera being in stores by at july/sept at least
hopefully aug


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## jeffa4444 (Mar 10, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> jeffa4444 said:
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> > I realise this is a US site
> ...


I stand corrected.


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## zim (Mar 10, 2016)

jeffa4444 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
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> > jeffa4444 said:
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US/Canada its all the same to us jolly foreigners


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## Wick (Mar 10, 2016)

Mr Majestyk said:


> tron said:
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> > Any reason you are referring to it as 5DX instead of 5D4? Do you really believe Canon will name it 5DX?
> ...



Four is an unlucky number in Japan. Buildings often skip the fourth floor and mode numbers often skip right over it.


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## scyrene (Mar 10, 2016)

Wick said:


> Mr Majestyk said:
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> > tron said:
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We've had this conversation several times in different threads. The counterexamples are enough (400D, 40D, 1D mark IV, D4), and apparently the superstition is not universal. I think the assumption should be it will be the 5D4 unless we have very good evidence to the contrary (and not just 'I was told').


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## Don Haines (Mar 10, 2016)

zim said:


> jeffa4444 said:
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> > neuroanatomist said:
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Canada is a far more civilized country than the US... We line up in the snow to eat beavertails....


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## tron (Mar 10, 2016)

BigAntTVProductions said:


> Mr Majestyk said:
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> > tron said:
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Good question! Plus, let's not forget the thread title: "Lots of EOS 5D Mark IV Talk, None of it Reliable"


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## mcconnell113 (Mar 10, 2016)

I honestly hope they wait as long as possible that way we don't have to cry when we see the specs.


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## mkabi (Mar 10, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> zim said:
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> > jeffa4444 said:
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Pssst... They are actually going to believe that we eat beaver tails.... Hahaha.... Leave it to the Toronto zoo to ruin our rep.


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 10, 2016)

Wick said:


> Mr Majestyk said:
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> > tron said:
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So _that's_ why Canon skipped the 1D Mark IV and Nikon didn't release a D4 or D4s. Oh, wait..... :


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## dash2k8 (Mar 11, 2016)

Whatever it's called, I hope it is _at least_ equal in low light and DR to my D750. I've had enough of my Nikon-only friends telling me to ditch my Canon gear because the D750 changed the game (they forget that the D750 also made Nikon people sell off their D810's). When I tell them I don't want to give up on my L lenses, they turn deaf and repeat the same lines: better DR and noise in low light and shadow pull. If the 5DX/4/IV/whatever can perform equal to or better than the D750, I will gladly pay twice the price to get one.


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## scyrene (Mar 11, 2016)

dash2k8 said:


> Whatever it's called, I hope it is _at least_ equal in low light and DR to my D750. I've had enough of my Nikon-only friends telling me to ditch my Canon gear because the D750 changed the game (they forget that the D750 also made Nikon people sell off their D810's). When I tell them I don't want to give up on my L lenses, they turn deaf and repeat the same lines: better DR and noise in low light and shadow pull. If the 5DX/4/IV/whatever can perform equal to or better than the D750, I will gladly pay twice the price to get one.



Or just get better friends


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## AshtonNekolah (Mar 11, 2016)

Mr Majestyk said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > Any reason you are referring to it as 5DX instead of 5D4? Do you really believe Canon will name it 5DX?
> ...



sounds like a plan.

35mm
6d1/6d2 - entry level
5dx/5dx2 - Pro level 
5ds/5dsr - Hig res dslr's
1dx/1dx2 -flag ship

looks more organized and leaner to me. its about time, lets see what happens, this guy makes sense!


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## AshtonNekolah (Mar 11, 2016)

Wick said:


> Mr Majestyk said:
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> > tron said:
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it always amazes me that the believers always make a big deal out of superstitions but the wealthy and powerful could care less of what your believes are, but yes we wined and moan over this already with the 40D crushing that myth.


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## pierlux (Mar 11, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Wick said:
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> > Mr Majestyk said:
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Too bad your avatar is a sagittal NMR. You should have chosen a coronal section crossing the eyeballs instead. By now, you could have sued a lot of CR members, providing evidence to the court of the damage they have caused to your eyes by simply repeating a scan.  ;D

What about Canon leaving the number 5 exclusive to their high-MP line and introducing the 4D as the 5D3 replacement instead?   

Seriously now. We're in the second decade of the 21st century, it's about time to drop out of the world all kind of superstition. I cannot even imagine Canon, nor any other eminent company, letting their marketing strategy being driven by medieval beliefs.

5D Mark IV. So be it. Listen Canon, don't let CR guy's mockup having been photoshopped in vain!


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## ironfreak (Mar 11, 2016)

I have weird thought that Canon will surprise everyone by announcing 6D Mark II during March or April, before 5DIV/X to compete with D750 and bring next 5D sometime later this year to compete with D810.. :


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## unfocused (Mar 11, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> zim said:
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> > jeffa4444 said:
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Is that picture from July or August?


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## Untitled (Mar 11, 2016)

plam_1980 said:


> Fritz said:
> 
> 
> > They might as well just announce/release it. Update is long long overdue & I bet Canon is losing body sales every day to the competition. Besides rumor mill is already strong enough that whoever still in the market for a 5D is going to wait for the 4/X. Also I don't think it'll steal any sales from the 1DX2, that's a whole other product segment..
> ...



How could every sale of a 5D IV be a loss for Canon? or the sale of any other Canon camera model for that matter...People choose one camera over another for all sorts of reasons all the time, the trick is to have a wide range of cameras for sale.

What is actually holding money back from Canon right now, in my case, is all the speculation over a putative new 5D range camera. I am ready to buy a new full frame Canon, with a budget of around 3k already put aside. - Comparisons between the 5D 3 and it's competitors, do put me off it a bit and I can't for the life of me understand the 5DS, 5DSr duo. Which of those would you buy? Why two cameras? Surely an on/off switch for the AA filter on one camera would be sensible. - I like the resolution of the Nikon, Sony and Pentax K1, (hence my rejection of 5D III), but this division of DS/DSr, Well, I don't want to make an expensive mistake. If Canon do have a new 5D in the offing, they might as well announce it, for my part, removing the uncertainty would mean either a pre-order or an immediate purchase of either a 5DS/r. 

Wish list while I'm at it:

1_Resolution in the high twenties or low thirties. 

2_Since my camera spends a lot of time on a tripod, I'd like to be able to control it wirelessly, using an App on my tablet.


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## Mr Majestyk (Mar 11, 2016)

scyrene said:


> We've had this conversation several times in different threads. The counterexamples are enough (400D, 40D, 1D mark IV, D4), and apparently the superstition is not universal. I think the assumption should be it will be the 5D4 unless we have very good evidence to the contrary (and not just 'I was told').



Why on earth do you think they are dropping the 4 because it's bad luck. In the same way in the 1DX the X signified a breakthrough product, a new beginning, the same logic will be applied to the 5DX, meaning we will see something more than just a upgrade of the 5DIII in the usual sense.


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## George D. (Mar 11, 2016)

I suggest new moniker 5D "year", e.g. 5D 2016. This way we'll get rid of the marks; not sustainable. 8)


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 11, 2016)

George D. said:


> I suggest new moniker 5D "year", e.g. 5D 2016. This way we'll get rid of the marks; not sustainable. 8)



I'm guessing you don't work in marketing...


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## unfocused (Mar 11, 2016)

Mr Majestyk said:


> In the same way in the 1DX the X signified a breakthrough product, a new beginning, the same logic will be applied to the 5DX, meaning we will see something more than just a upgrade of the 5DIII in the usual sense.



Huh? Please explain what "breakthrough" you think there is room for between the 5D III and the 1Dx II. The one thing we know about the next 5D is that it won't be as good as the 1Dx II. That's just a given. 

I'm not saying Canon won't stick an 'X' on it, but if you are expecting some big magical breakthrough you will be disappointed.


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## scyrene (Mar 11, 2016)

unfocused said:


> Mr Majestyk said:
> 
> 
> > In the same way in the 1DX the X signified a breakthrough product, a new beginning, the same logic will be applied to the 5DX, meaning we will see something more than just a upgrade of the 5DIII in the usual sense.
> ...



Absolutely. Besides, to the original poster, the marketing narrative as to why it was called 'X' is hazy, with several ideas floated. And indeed, do you believe that all the Powershot cameras with an X represent breakthroughs? But anyhow, Canon would like us to believe every new product is a breakthrough. They can't use X for all of them!

Once again: it might be 5DX. But we have no reason to believe it is without evidence. The more likely option is 5D4 ceteris paribus.


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## zim (Mar 11, 2016)

unfocused said:


> Don Haines said:
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> 
> > zim said:
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OK my apologies for going waaayy OT here but what the hell is a 'beaver tail' ?

In the sense of.....

I know what 'Dynamic' means
I know what 'Range' means
but I don't know what 'Dynamic Range' really means

I know what a 'Beaver' is
I know what a 'Tail' is
but I don't know what a 'Beaver Tail' really is 

 ;D


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## jeffa4444 (Mar 11, 2016)

Untitled said:


> plam_1980 said:
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> > Fritz said:
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The 5DS purchase I made was purely because I wanted to be able to crop more and retain good detail over my 6D. I didnt go for the 5DSr because of moire concerns. The 5DS on a tripod, with low ISO provides stunning images with improvements in colour imagery over previous cameras. Its not a great low light camera as I experianced in South Africa on game drives in fact anything above 800ISO shows deteriation. With controlled lighting & well lit landscapes its in a world of its own as far as DSLRs for everything else the 5D MKIII is way better or indeed the 6D which Ive been using with a smart phone or tablet since early 2013. 

Canon actually has room to add another full frame camera. Entry 6D, Nikon 750 competitor, 5D & 1D series. The price points are wide between the 6D & 5D so they have wriggle room.


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## scyrene (Mar 11, 2016)

jeffa4444 said:


> Canon actually has room to add another full frame camera. Entry 6D, Nikon 750 competitor, 5D & 1D series. The price points are wide between the 6D & 5D so they have wriggle room.



I don't know the Nikon lineup so well. Can you explain what the D750 has compared to the 6D and 5D3? Just intermediate in all aspects? There is a big price gap between those two models, as you say.


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## George D. (Mar 11, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> George D. said:
> 
> 
> > I suggest new moniker 5D "year", e.g. 5D 2016. This way we'll get rid of the marks; not sustainable. 8)
> ...



No. Fancy food mode on the 5D Mk.IV?


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## LoneRider (Mar 11, 2016)

As far as the 6D-ii coming out before the 5DX, nope, IMNSHO not going to happen. One of the common themes is the 1DX-ii and 5DX markets. Yeah, the 5DX may steel some from the 1DX-ii, but the 1DX-ii is going to be a _holly grail_ camera for the sidelines. 14fps and amazing autofocus. 'nuff said. Sport journalists and the like are going to be all in I would guess. Get that perfect picture of the goal and so on.

But, the 6D-ii will definitely compete hugely against the 5DX. So, they need to make as much money as they can on the 5DX. I don't know if it is going to be called the 5DX, but I think the 5DX is going to be a holly grail, it is going to fill in a *massive* market demand they created, the announcement of the 1DX-ii with DPAF and all F8 stoked our imagination on what the 5DX could be.

Yup, the _holly grail_ FF camera with DPAF and 7D-ii besting AF. Add in on chip ADC and 7+ FPS, maybe GPS, NFC and WIFI, and a few other expected goodies. And you have a $3500 _holly grail_ FF camera that is going to cause Nikon product managers to lay awake at night. I add 7+FPS, if the 80D has 7FPS, it would imply better cameras should be equal or better.

So no, they are not going to announce a 6D-ii with DPAF until they've convinced all the price sensitive FF converts to just go with the $3500 5DX

And with the release of the 1DX-ii they have shown they have all the technology ready for market at hand.

As far as the name, as it maybe the _holly grail_ FF camera. The next jump, well that deserves a name jump that calling it a 5D-iv just does not convey. And honestly, a strike price anywhere under $3995 will probably work if it has everything I describe.

If they go external GPS, man, that will just piss me off. That is $400-$600 accessory is an insult to our intelligence considering the GPS part and antenna are certainly less than $20 in raw materials.

As far as timing, I am sure, as soon as they feel they can deliver a reliable product, they will release. I do not believe there is anything holding them back, other than picking the right show. But honestly, if it is the _holly grail_ FF camera, they need the headlines and be able to have 1000's of them in hand to sell at the release date.

I also think there is no reason to go above 22-28MP. They have the 5DS with the huge MP count. And frankly it makes sense to keep them differentiated. And honestly, I can see the 5DS getting an upgraded sensor *without* DPAF. Making it the go to camera for high MP picture quality. So what if the Sony's of the world sit in between the 5DX and the 5DS. The 5DX and 5DS will have 2 distinct markets. 5DX for people like me with moderate portrait, video, landscape and sport, kinda the _jack of all_. Where the 5DS will be *go to* camera for landscapes and portrait work. And you will get people who will have a 5DX and a 5DS.

That is my take from all of the great comments in all of the threads on this. Hope I am not blowing smoke. We will see.


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## SwnSng (Mar 11, 2016)

All I know is they better HURRY before all my TAX money is spent .

This is my hope:

28mp
7fps+
AF - 1DXII
4k 
WIFI


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## unfocused (Mar 11, 2016)

zim said:


> OK my apologies for going waaayy OT here but what the hell is a 'beaver tail' ?



While the prospect of both beaver and tail interests me, I think this is something similar to what is sold around these parts as "elephant ears" -- batter drizzled in hot oil and deep fried then sprinkled with powdered sugar.

Am I close?


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## J.R. (Mar 11, 2016)

unfocused said:


> zim said:
> 
> 
> > OK my apologies for going waaayy OT here but what the hell is a 'beaver tail' ?
> ...



Yes sir ... Close enough.


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## canonographer (Mar 11, 2016)

I'm guessing before the end of 2017 the FF lineup will be as follows:

- FF EOS M(irrorless) to compete w/ the Sony A7II and the Nikon 610
- 6D II moved up market w/ new styling to appeal to the enthusiast and compete w/ the Nikon D750
- 5DX with low 30s resolution, 4K, and great video features to compete with Nikon D810, Sony A7RII, and Sony A7SII
- 5DS and 5DSR - Hi Res landscape camera to not only compete w/ the Nikon and Sony alternatives, but also to discourage use of medium format
- 1DXII - Sports and elite action photography


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## extide (Mar 11, 2016)

Why do so many think the 6D should be aligned with the D750, it clearly is aligned with the D600 series.

6D -- D6xx
5D -- D7xx
5Ds -- D8xx


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## canonographer (Mar 11, 2016)

extide said:


> Why do so many think the 6D should be aligned with the D750, it clearly is aligned with the D600 series.



I didn't say I think they SHOULD align it w/ the D750, but they do need an answer for it. The 5D3 is seen as the workhorse for a lot of people who make a living with their cameras, and it competes directly with the D810.

The current 6D is aligned w/ the D610, as an entry level FF. Unfortunately for Canon, they don't have anything in their range that can compete with the D750 for the price. The new 5D(x) should be back at parity with the D810, both in terms of features and price. Why would they undercut themselves by selling the new 5D(x) at an intermediate price point and try to compete w/ the D750?

Nikon is selling a lot of the D750s. If I were looking to get into or switch systems, and I am, the D750 looks like a really good option for the price. The 6D doesn't compare to the the D750. I'm just an enthusiast, and don't have a need for the 5D(x) range of camers, but I'm also looking for more than what the 6D or D610 have to offer.


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## LoneRider (Mar 11, 2016)

As a hack here. I don't know if Canon has to go toe to tow with Nikon or Sony. 

With DPAF and it's F8 AF system, Canon has some amazing features to distinguish them to Nikon.

That said, they also have to distinguish between the 6D-ii and 5DX. Looking at the specs, and assuming the on-chip ADC graces both the 6D-ii and 5DX and improves DR into the same class as Nikon and Sony.

It would seem to me, as not a Nikon follower, the 6D-ii will compete handily against the D750, is most categories except possibly FPS. And the 5DX, given the 1DX-ii AF, it will stomp the D810 in everything except for the MP count. I am still thinking less than 30MP on the 5DX, I can't see pushing the Dual Pixel on the die for a number that is not needed. Keep the MP in the mid 20's, keep image quality very high. Allow the 5DS[r] to take the MP crown (without DPAF)

Not sure how they will differentiate the 6D-ii and the 5DX. I am guessing FPS, 1K vs 4K, 60Hz @1K vs. 120Hz @ 4K video, 6D-ii might not get F8 except for center, and of course fewer AF points. GPS, more likely on the 5Dx. NFC/WIFI is a must on both I think, same with DPAF. C-Fast? Modes? Better bracketing options on the 5DX. Flash transmitter??

As far as the mirrorless FF, I forgot about that, what lens mount for it?


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## canonographer (Mar 11, 2016)

LoneRider said:


> As far as the mirrorless FF, I forgot about that, what lens mount for it?



I'm guessing they will need to create a new version of the M mount. This will give them two versions of mirroless lenses, similar to the EF and EF-S lenses. Trying to rely on EF lenses as a go forward solution for mirrorless just doesn't make sense. Adding a free adapter to the kit would be nice though.

The only way I could see them using the EF mount on a mirrorless FF would be if they figured out a novel way to increase the length of the light path internally, instead of adding the DSLR like flange distance outside of the camera. Even if they did that though, it would still seem like a band aid solution that they wouldn't want to lock themselves into for the long haul.

So, I gotta go with a new EF-M FF mount, if I'm Canon. You don't need to add a lot of lenses quickly if you throw in an adapter.


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## unfocused (Mar 11, 2016)

LoneRider said:


> As far as the mirrorless FF, I forgot about that, what lens mount for it?



It will be mounted on the unicorn that delivers it to your doorstep.


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## canonographer (Mar 11, 2016)

unfocused said:


> LoneRider said:
> 
> 
> > As far as the mirrorless FF, I forgot about that, what lens mount for it?
> ...



+1


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## LoneRider (Mar 11, 2016)

unfocused said:


> LoneRider said:
> 
> 
> > As far as the mirrorless FF, I forgot about that, what lens mount for it?
> ...



Ohhh harsh 

I must admit, it would be cool to see a Canon M camera with DPAF in the wild, even if it is based off of the 80D or 7D-ii sensor. But the 1DX-ii and 5DX would have to be job #1. I would love to think a DPAF mirrorless Canon is in the works though.


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## unfocused (Mar 11, 2016)

LoneRider said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > LoneRider said:
> ...



Sorry, not trying to be mean. Just injecting a bit of reality into the speculation here.


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## LoneRider (Mar 11, 2016)

unfocused said:


> Sorry, not trying to be mean. Just injecting a bit of reality into the speculation here.



Heck, no worries. I laughed when I read your comment. This thread is mostly wishful thinking with a splash of reality. I just hope I am correct in my guesses, otherwise I am going to wind up crying.


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## zim (Mar 12, 2016)

unfocused said:


> zim said:
> 
> 
> > OK my apologies for going waaayy OT here but what the hell is a 'beaver tail' ?
> ...



Ah, we have something similar, that but with a Mars bar in the middle of it


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## Don Haines (Mar 15, 2016)

unfocused said:


> zim said:
> 
> 
> > OK my apologies for going waaayy OT here but what the hell is a 'beaver tail' ?
> ...


same thing.... very unhealthy, that's why they taste so good.


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## jeffa4444 (Mar 16, 2016)

Whilst a crude instrument if you look at the highest sales months in 2015 for inter-changeable lens cameras globally from CIPA numbers they go like this:- 

April 1,218,760
June 1,218,174
July 1,299,086
October 1,299,966
November 1,245,809

Not really a surprise as April through July mirrors the run-in to summer vacations and October, November Christmas Present purchases. 
If your going to launch new cameras and want to maximise peak purchasing then launch ahead of these dates to maximise publicity. The EOS 80D fits this (as does the G7 X MKII), however the 1D X MKII is a pro tool and will be a "steady seller", the 5D MKIV could fall between two stalls being both a professional tool and enthusiast so Canon may need to launch in April or failing that September and in both cases go on sale almost immediately to maximise peak periods.


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## unfocused (Mar 18, 2016)

dilbert said:


> jeffa4444 said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



I'm always surprised at how much some people spend on Christmas gifts. On the other hand, I think a lot of times the special offers available around Black Friday/Christmas serve as a "push" to get people to buy cameras they have been thinking about anyway.


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## J.R. (Mar 18, 2016)

unfocused said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > jeffa4444 said:
> ...



I've seen a number of people actually delay their purchasing decisions to Black Friday / Christmas in the hope of getting a killer deal. To my understanding, this would explain in part, the slow sales prior to Christmas.


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