# X4 Circular Polarizer breakthroughphotography: My experience: BAD!!!



## scottkinfw (Jan 14, 2016)

Just a heads up guys.

I funded these guys on kickstarter and it was supposed to ship in December. In January I didn't receive mine. I contacted them several times by email. Tonight I got on their support chat and got a very rude, snotty girl who made me feel like a dumb s**t. Long story short, I get an email calling me a troll and I am fired as a customer.

Don't use these guys, even if the product is good, service is poor, they are rude, don't deliver on time, etc., etc.

sek


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## niels123 (Jan 14, 2016)

wow :-X
I hope you get a refund or don't loose too much money.

Thanx for letting us know 

Niels


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## streestandtheatres (Jan 14, 2016)

My experience was also not good.
It seems that I didn't select what 'reward' I wanted (because I didn't want a reward, just a filter...), and so I had a terse message saying 'You didn't select any rewards, so you're not getting any filters.' I tried the online chat and they suggested emailing to ask for it to go ahead, and never heard another thing.
I have 'Dr' in front of my name but it seems that kickstarter was too confusing, so I won't try the crowdsourced thing again.

Now happily shooting polarized photos with a Hoya Fusion C-PL. Photos look great. Sharpness, colours, all fab, and much easier to clean than my Hoya ND. My only criticism is that the filter thread on the C-PL isn't quite deep enough and the lens cap has come off a couple of times. But at least I'm out shooting photos.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jan 14, 2016)

That's the issue with Kick 
Starter. Complain directly to them, so that the outfit does not get more money. Also write nice but more complete letters to DP review written up so they sound more like a news release. Those who had issues will probably be joined by many more.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 14, 2016)

We haven't heard from  grahamclarkphoto on the Forums since November. I wonder if we will.....


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## grahamclarkphoto (Jan 19, 2016)

scottkinfw said:


> Just a heads up guys.
> 
> I funded these guys on kickstarter and it was supposed to ship in December. In January I didn't receive mine. I contacted them several times by email. Tonight I got on their support chat and got a very rude, snotty girl who made me feel like a dumb s**t. Long story short, I get an email calling me a troll and I am fired as a customer.
> 
> ...



Hello Scott,

You came onto our Live Chat and said "****** you" to one of our chat representatives, and then continued to be difficult to deal with because you couldn't complete the checkout process.

Then you sent me an email saying "but since you called me a troll, I'll troll you to some photo sites. I hope you go broke."

We're very selective with whom we do business, so don't take it personally if we refuse to do business with you.

Graham


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## grahamclarkphoto (Jan 19, 2016)

niels123 said:


> wow :-X
> I hope you get a refund or don't loose too much money.
> 
> Thanx for letting us know
> ...



Hello Niels,

We always refund photographers whom we refuse to do business with. Everyone wins 

Graham


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## grahamclarkphoto (Jan 19, 2016)

JP4DESIGNZ said:


> Wow, that's crazy. I'm still waiting on my copy and sent them an email a couple of days ago. No response yet.



We've shipped over 1,000, and we're about to ship 2,500 more in the next few days. 

Graham


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## grahamclarkphoto (Jan 19, 2016)

streestandtheatres said:


> My experience was also not good.
> It seems that I didn't select what 'reward' I wanted (because I didn't want a reward, just a filter...), and so I had a terse message saying 'You didn't select any rewards, so you're not getting any filters.' I tried the online chat and they suggested emailing to ask for it to go ahead, and never heard another thing.
> I have 'Dr' in front of my name but it seems that kickstarter was too confusing, so I won't try the crowdsourced thing again.
> 
> Now happily shooting polarized photos with a Hoya Fusion C-PL. Photos look great. Sharpness, colours, all fab, and much easier to clean than my Hoya ND. My only criticism is that the filter thread on the C-PL isn't quite deep enough and the lens cap has come off a couple of times. But at least I'm out shooting photos.



Hello,

You sent us an email saying:

"Dear Kathy,

It seems that I didn't select a reward correctly for a 67mm filter for $89, can you help me by creating a coupon?

Thanks!

Kickstarter is confusing, but frankly it's not our fault that you didn't understand the process 

We refunded you your money immediately, so what's the problem here aside from you (understandably so) not understanding how the Kickstarter reward levels work?

Graham 

_<edited by mod to remove inappropriate posting of customer's personal email>_


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## grahamclarkphoto (Jan 19, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> We haven't heard from  grahamclarkphoto on the Forums since November. I wonder if we will.....



Sorry, I've been designing lots of new products, it's a lot of work and don't have as much time for the forum as I used to, unfortunately...

Graham


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## grahamclarkphoto (Jan 19, 2016)

We've built our company on customer service, click here to see what I mean: http://breakthrough.photography/customer-service-reviews/

In dealing with thousands of photographers I can tell you that far less than 1% are hateful, racist, other otherwise completely unreasonable.

But there is still that very small percentage that still exists and we have chosen to have a zero-tolerance policy for those ones, so that we can (as a very small manufacturing company) focus all our energy on the 99.99% of the photographers that demand our attention.

Graham


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## grahamclarkphoto (Jan 19, 2016)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> That's the issue with Kick
> Starter. Complain directly to them, so that the outfit does not get more money. Also write nice but more complete letters to DP review written up so they sound more like a news release. Those who had issues will probably be joined by many more.



In my experience having done a couple Kickstarter projects, part of what happens is that during a Kickstarter project thousands of new customers appear. 

99% of all new customers are incredibly nice, thoughtful and supportive people. 1% or less are having a bad day, or otherwise are naturally negative and want to make your life miserable. In retail environments this figure is actually much higher than 1%.

Our Kickstarter project got 2,000 new customers, so by that math that's around 20 bad ones or so? What if a Kickstarter project gets 40,000 new customers, as they often do? That's 400 bad ones to deal with.

About 5-10% of Kickstarter supporters are confused about how to actually use Kickstarter, because the website itself has horrible user experience and design, so there's a big percentage of "problems" that can come up for no reason other than the middleman (Kickstarter) confuses the hell out of people.

Graham


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## grahamclarkphoto (Jan 19, 2016)

JP4DESIGNZ said:


> grahamclarkphoto said:
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Yes of course, once it ships our system will send you an automated email with tracking.

We finished manufacturing 2,500 X4 CPLs 3 weeks ago, since that time we've been assembling all 2,500 in our Seattle facility, they're currently en route to our Austin warehouse for shipping.

They should arrive to Austin on Thursday or Friday, at which point we'll begin shipping them.

Graham


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## sunnyVan (Jan 19, 2016)

I got two x3 Breakthrough ND filters through B+H. I needed that peace of mind buying from a reputable store.


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## grahamclarkphoto (Jan 19, 2016)

sunnyVan said:


> I got two x3 Breakthrough ND filters through B+H. I needed that peace of mind buying from a reputable store.



How are they working?

Graham


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## Standard (Jan 19, 2016)

Received my X4 CPL a week or so ago. Haven't got a chance to use it yet but I am looking forward to the opportunity. My experience with Kickstarter has always been positive including this one. Kathy was very courteous and replied to my inquiry about shipping promptly.


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## sunnyVan (Jan 19, 2016)

grahamclarkphoto said:


> sunnyVan said:
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> > I got two x3 Breakthrough ND filters through B+H. I needed that peace of mind buying from a reputable store.
> ...



I'm quite pleased. 

I see that you sell aluminum step up ring. I'd suggest that you also make brass rings. There's surprisingly not many options out there. Hope you also find time to update your blog. I do enjoy reading it.


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## grahamclarkphoto (Jan 19, 2016)

sunnyVan said:


> grahamclarkphoto said:
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Actually good news, we just finished a X3 Step-Up ring, same construction and build quality as your X3 ND. It's by far the best step-up ring ever made 

They will be up on the site on Thursday or Friday, just now finishing product shots. 

Graham


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## sunnyVan (Jan 19, 2016)

grahamclarkphoto said:


> sunnyVan said:
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That's really cool. May get one if priced reasonably


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## wsmith96 (Jan 19, 2016)

Thanks for the manufacturing update. I have not received mine yet, but Kathy was courteous in her response to me on Christmas about your progress and to expect shipment sometime in January. That is right, I said Christmas - she was answering emails on Christmas day. Very impressive  I'm looking forward to trying out your products.


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## grahamclarkphoto (Jan 19, 2016)

sunnyVan said:


> grahamclarkphoto said:
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> > sunnyVan said:
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Unfortunately they're around $34 - very expensive to manufacture, but built to last forever.

Graham


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## grahamclarkphoto (Jan 19, 2016)

wsmith96 said:


> Thanks for the manufacturing update. I have not received mine yet, but Kathy was courteous in her response to me on Christmas about your progress and to expect shipment sometime in January. That is right, I said Christmas - she was answering emails on Christmas day. Very impressive  I'm looking forward to trying out your products.



No downtime during the holidays this year, unfortunately.

Graham


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## d (Jan 19, 2016)

I've noted my experiences with Breakthrough Photography's products elsewhere on CR, but just as a quick recap; purchased an 82mm X3 ND10 filter from them directly which turned out to have inconsistencies in the coating, this was returned and a second filter supplied which also had coating problems (couple of pinholes that allowed light through - not what you want on an ND10); this too was returned and a third filter supplied, along with a refund from Graham Clark for the total cost of the filter + shipping.

Unfortunately, the third filter suffered from the same problem as the first, with streaks in the coating, seemingly from the manufacturing process and resulting in a couple of strips visibly lighter than the rest of the filter, rendering it unsuitable for my intended applications.

While Graham was initially helpful in dealing with my concerns, he became a little hostile when I suggested Breakthrough's QC process needed attention (three out of three products I received from his company all had similar manufacturing defects; they were supplied over the course of several months so I would assume were not all produced in the same batch); and I was very surprised to learn that despite issues with the first two returned filters; no one bothered to inspect the third filter I was supplied with prior to it being sent to me; nor had Graham inspected the first two returned filters in the months following them being returned to his company.

While the full cost of the product was refunded to me, it seems Graham never got around to refunding me the cost of the return postage for the first two faulty filters as he said he would, and I never received a satisfactory explanation as to how I could be shipped three faulty products like that.

My advice to anyone purchasing from Breakthrough is to closely inspect the coating of your filters, as it seems no one at Breakthrough actually does.


d.


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## grahamclarkphoto (Jan 19, 2016)

d said:



> I've noted my experiences with Breakthrough Photography's products elsewhere on CR, but just as a quick recap; purchased an 82mm X3 ND10 filter from them directly which turned out to have inconsistencies in the coating, this was returned and a second filter supplied which also had coating problems (couple of pinholes that allowed light through - not what you want on an ND10); this too was returned and a third filter supplied, along with a refund from Graham Clark for the total cost of the filter + shipping.
> 
> Unfortunately, the third filter suffered from the same problem as the first, with streaks in the coating, seemingly from the manufacturing process and resulting in a couple of strips visibly lighter than the rest of the filter, rendering it unsuitable for my intended applications.
> 
> ...



Yes, we had a problem with a small number of X3 NDs in a very small manufacturing batch, but that was nearly a year ago. Before we had one QA process, now we have three QA processes, last one being at our assembly facility in Seattle. No problems like that since.

Don't appreciate you throwing us under the bus on our first few manufacturing runs. Thanks for that. 

Graham


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## pj1974 (Jan 21, 2016)

I have read through this thread with great interest. A few weeks ago I ordered a 82mm Breakthrough X3 ND 1000 filter via B&H. I might have gone through Breakthrough directly – however I saw the filter on B&H, and I have deal with them It has just arrived here in Australia (opposite end of the world from shipping). I also was not aware that grahamclark from this forum was involved (till after I ordered from B&H). 

For almost a decade, I have worked as a manager in the largest Government agency here. Part of my team deals with customer complaints and customer aggression incidents. Between 25 and 20 years ago, I worked in private enterprise as a business and marketing consultant – so I also am familiar with customer service and dealing with the whole spectrum of customers. I concur there are both:
a) a very small proportion of customers who are extremely difficult to serve / please and
b) problems with products and services an organisation needs to carefully rectify / apologise for.

I am eager to try out the Breakthrough X3 ND 1000 filter on my camera. I am awaiting a shipment of a set of step-up rings (58mm-82mm, 67mm-82mm and 72-82mm) to use the filter with all my lenses. I actually do not own any lenses that are 77mm or 82mm. I decided to get the largest filter – and use step up rings, which also assures me of using this filter if I ever get any lenses which have 77mm (with another step-up ring) or 82mm filter size/s.

Based on my usage of the filter, I will provide some of my thoughts and experiences. I was impressed at the high level of positive feedback via the B&H website… that probably ‘sold’ it for me.. (I currently have ND4 and ND8 mid-level Hoya filters). 

Regards, 

Paul 8)


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## Pookie (Jan 21, 2016)

grahamclarkphoto said:


> d said:
> 
> 
> > I've noted my experiences with Breakthrough Photography's products elsewhere on CR, but just as a quick recap; purchased an 82mm X3 ND10 filter from them directly which turned out to have inconsistencies in the coating, this was returned and a second filter supplied which also had coating problems (couple of pinholes that allowed light through - not what you want on an ND10); this too was returned and a third filter supplied, along with a refund from Graham Clark for the total cost of the filter + shipping.
> ...



Reading this thread I can see that a few customers were obviously pretty pissed for whatever reason be it on your end or theirs. What is a concern when dealing with a professional at the company they are representing is this statement, "Don't appreciate you throwing us under the bus on our first few manufacturing runs. Thanks for that." It's not throwing someone under the bus if it is a fact as you verified... own it and move on. That little statement at the very end lends some credence to the comments of "rude" remarks from you and your company. I am considering buying a 82mm CPL and had been looking at your offerings but this type of interaction is little unnerving coming from a company representative. It gives me pause and that's all it takes to make many choose another tried and true company.


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## grahamclarkphoto (Jan 21, 2016)

Pookie said:


> grahamclarkphoto said:
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> > d said:
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We're not a "tride and true" corporation like the other filter giants, we're photographers and engineers, and we make the worlds sharpest and most color neutral circular polarizer, which means the tried-and-true companies don't. 

We're in this to make the best products, not to appease every photographer or go back and forth about semantics on forums. 

Graham


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## grahamclarkphoto (Jan 21, 2016)

pj1974 said:


> I have read through this thread with great interest. A few weeks ago I ordered a 82mm Breakthrough X3 ND 1000 filter via B&H. I might have gone through Breakthrough directly – however I saw the filter on B&H, and I have deal with them It has just arrived here in Australia (opposite end of the world from shipping). I also was not aware that grahamclark from this forum was involved (till after I ordered from B&H).
> 
> For almost a decade, I have worked as a manager in the largest Government agency here. Part of my team deals with customer complaints and customer aggression incidents. Between 25 and 20 years ago, I worked in private enterprise as a business and marketing consultant – so I also am familiar with customer service and dealing with the whole spectrum of customers. I concur there are both:
> a) a very small proportion of customers who are extremely difficult to serve / please and
> ...



Hey Paul,

Looking forward to hearing what you think after you've had a chance to put it to the test. 

Graham


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## Maximilian (Jan 21, 2016)

Hi Scott!
Hi Graham! 
And hi to all others! 

I wanted to share my experience here as well and I can feel sorry for those having bad experiences. 

My only bad experience with "Breakthrough Photography", Graham and Kathy (the one I received E-Mails from) is that the shipping of the products is still delayed. 
I was hoping for them before Christmas and now expect them for the begin of February. 
I asked several times in a friendly and calm way and always received a fast and friendly response. 
I got the information I needed and am willing to wait a little bit more.
I've read some have been waiting much longer for a "Lee BIG Stopper" than that  and nobody said that the X4 CPL was on stock.

I have full understanding, that a startup (or call it small company) like Breakthrough Photography have logistic problems with delivering a new (!) product for such a crowd after the kickstarter success, knowing that quality complains could be the biggest problem, much bigger than delays in delivery. 

Maybe the communication policy could have been a little bit better. But then you'll have to ask: "Better communication or faster delivery." 

So I am still hoping for a delivery soon and a hopefully great product. 
And I can tell you, I can get angry, too ...


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## d (Jan 21, 2016)

grahamclarkphoto said:


> d said:
> 
> 
> > I've noted my experiences with Breakthrough Photography's products elsewhere on CR, but just as a quick recap; purchased an 82mm X3 ND10 filter from them directly which turned out to have inconsistencies in the coating, this was returned and a second filter supplied which also had coating problems (couple of pinholes that allowed light through - not what you want on an ND10); this too was returned and a third filter supplied, along with a refund from Graham Clark for the total cost of the filter + shipping.
> ...



Throwing you under a bus? Hardly a fair characterisation.

You shipped me three defective products on three different occasions. I politely made you aware on the first two occasions, shipping both units back to you; upon receiving the *third* defective filter, I started a thread on here to see if anyone else were experiencing similar issues with their X3 ND10 filter from you.

I think it only fair to caution other photographers on here purchasing your filters to closely inspect them for any manufacturing hiccups like the ones I encountered, particularly when dealing with a new company as is the case with yours. I'm sure others appreciate being able to make an informed purchase decision, and as evidenced by this thread, I'm not the only one who has encountered difficulties with Breakthrough Photography as a supplier.

You mentioned in one of your posts on the first page of this thread that "We've built our company on customer service..."; in the spirit of that, do you think you might finally refund me the return postage costs for the two filters I returned to you?

As a reminder, that's what you said you'd do in your email to me 22/6/15 - "Send me a copy of the shipping receipt and I can refund you for S&H as well." I emailed you copies of the receipts 1/7/15, but never saw the refund come through, and you or your team are yet to reply to my most recent email enquiring on the matter, sent back in October...

d.


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## LDS (Jan 21, 2016)

​


grahamclarkphoto said:


> You sent us an email saying:



Ehm, you published an email address of a customer of yours here, and you should have not. You should edit your post and remove it. It may be public or maybe not, you can't know.


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## Maui5150 (Jan 21, 2016)

grahamclarkphoto said:


> Don't appreciate you throwing us under the bus on our first few manufacturing runs. Thanks for that.



Man. Am I glad I did not fund this project. Came close a couple of times, but frankly seeing Graham's views and comments, by personal opinion is the company should be renames "Broke Down Photography"

A few bad manufacturer runs? My biggest question is where is the QC process and how on Earth can THREE bad filters be shipped out. Something like a filter is fairly simple to test and inspect, especially compared to things like soft focus on a camera etc. Fool me once... and all that jazz.

Customer Service is key. I have had a ton of interaction from both small and large organizations, some where I have been quite terse, and some where I have been extremely cordial... A fine organization will understand the stress a bad product and poor communication can have. When I see comments like Graham, I look back to lessons I learned from the Japanese model, which is when you receive poor company service, you basically walk away... Forever. 

There is also a TIME VALUE component to money. Especially with something like Kickstarter, where patrons can help fund things up front. Kickstarter is also not confusing, but rather a poorly designed campaign is confusing. Every campaign I have dealt with had nice clearly specified rewards / support levels. 

When I see a claim like : "WORLD’S SHARPEST & MOST COLOR NEUTRAL CPL FILTER. GUARANTEED."

4 copies to get one that does not have a defect? As well... How much time was wasted waiting on the replacements? 

Frankly, especially for a small company, I look for do they stand behind their product. When I see the quote above, I see a complete lack of that, and 3 bad versions frankly unacceptable. 

Then there is the BS line "We're in this to make the best products, not to appease every photographer or go back and forth about semantics on forums. "

Best product? Seems like that statement is self-evident as being false. 

My guess is that there are TONS of poor quality filters that have been distributed, just most consumers have not tested or vetted the filters. I know some photographers who when they get a new body, look it over take some shots, and are pretty much happy. Some I know spend a couple of hours testing the focus, and digging into the features to makes sure they are happy. 

When I see the statement "We've built our company on customer service..." and then see the comments made by one of the founders / principals in this thread, again, more hyperbole and BS. 

While I can't verify it, but seeing consumers saying their return shipping was not covered for defective products, especially when there are multiple occurrences - Shesh - talk about a lack of customer service.

And example. I bought a product Christmas eve. There were some delays shipping, and normally it ships a day or two after order. I emailed beginning of the year, noted I had not seen a tracking number yet. They apologized, and even refunded me the shipping. Noted a few days later still had not shipped. Followed up, I was a little distressed because I needed it. They said they were backlogged, valued be as a customer and added a $25 credit to my account. 

I consistently get that level of service from them. I also place a lot of orders, and maybe spend $8 - $12K with them over the course of a year. Mistakes happen. Issues happen. They have consistently provided service which is why I am still a customer, as well as why I will never be one of Breakdown Photography.

Perhaps you should stick to photography - because as a founder, you suck.

You may be happy to not have me as a customer. That is fine

A reputation is hard to earn, and easily lost. Good luck find yours. You may occasionally have a decent product, but your lack of service, honor, and integrity is far more distasteful in my eyes, nor would I even want to risk having to ever deal with a return or issue with such a childish company


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## d (Jan 21, 2016)

Hi Maui,

Just to clarify, the product I had issues with wasn't this X4 CPL, but a neutral density filter (the X3 ND10). Also, I didn't purchase through the Kickstarted campaign - I ordered directly from the Breakthrough website, in June last year, and encountered these issues across June and July.

The 3rd copy I received was the last one I tried (I didn't try to obtain a 4th). Graham from Breakthrough fully refunded the purchase price after I received the 2nd faulty filter, and then shipped me the 3rd filter free of charge, which unfortunately also turned out to be defective. He also offered to refund the return shipping for the faulty filters (not tiny, since I was returning them from Australia back to the USA) once I sent through copies of the receipts.

So in that sense, I do believe he's trying to stand behind the quality of his products and _wants_ to deliver a good experience to customers.

Unfortunately, Graham seemed to take offence at my original post here on CR - http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=26986 - seeking other photographers who might have encountered similar issues with the same product, and I never received the postage refund nor a reply from Graham to my last email. 

Perhaps I've now been grouped by him into that 1% of hateful, racist, or otherwise completely unreasonable customers whom he refuses to deal with - what a luxury it must be for a startup company to be able to be picky about new business!


d.


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## Pookie (Jan 21, 2016)

grahamclarkphoto said:


> Pookie said:
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It's quite obvious that your company is neither tried nor true. I was actually still planning on making a purchase from your site but I can see that there is some validity to the rude/snide remarks pointed out by others. I was not against your company just pointing out that when working with customers as a new company you should be careful with your interactions in public. *Why spend money on a newer, hypothetically better product when this is what is to be expected?* Instead you got defensive and up the snide comments. If you don't like customers you're in the wrong line of business. Perhaps you should start looking for a CS rep that is a little more professional when dealing with customers. A petulant "cactus needle" is a poor choice to front a company.


I have purchased quite a few times from Kickstarter. I buy Peak Design products that are NEW and untested. It is a gamble but it is also great when they perform as stated. They also know they have to earn their customers respect because they know they are fighting for your money. 

And on that note... nope. I'll spend my money elsewhere. I hope your current business strategy pans out but not with a cent of my money.


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## sunnyVan (Jan 21, 2016)

d said:


> Hi Maui,
> 
> Just to clarify, the product I had issues with wasn't this X4 CPL, but a neutral density filter (the X3 ND10). Also, I didn't purchase through the Kickstarted campaign - I ordered directly from the Breakthrough website, in June last year, and encountered these issues across June and July.
> 
> ...



Actually i should thank you because it's after reading your post that i decided to buy from b&h instead of buying directly from breakthrough website. I also listened to your comments about checking the filters thoroughly. I was very happy with x3 6 stop nd that i decided to get a 10 stop as well. Very decent product indeed. 

I have to agree with everyone who said that Graham needs to work on his customer service skill. Dealing with real customers is time consuming and requires patience. Perhaps he should focus on product development and let the big guys (amazon, b+h) handle customer service. 

Will i buy another Breakthrough product? It was a resounding yes before but I'm a little hesitant now. Won't buy directly for sure. It's wrong to think that just because you have a decent product you can ignore customer service. Graham, if you're reading this, i want your company to succeed. I want to buy a good product. Get a marketing professional to see how to proceed. It's unwise to be getting bad press on an enthusiast forum. An average person doesn't buy expensive filters. Only professionals and enthusiasts do. You don't want to create negative impressions here. Once you create bad impressions, down the road it's hard and expensive to fix. Perception is more important than reality. Remember that.


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## grahamclarkphoto (Jan 21, 2016)

d said:


> grahamclarkphoto said:
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> > d said:
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As I said in the email, I apologize for this isolated incident, it's definitely not normal. Meaning it's not indicative of the product. 

The X3 ND is years ahead of the competitors in terms of performance, and it took a lot of research and engineering to get us to that point, and you were one of the first adopters, a time in which point we were experiencing a few manufacturing difficulties. 

As for throwing us under the bus, I was referring to you jumping on this thread which is completely unrelated to your problem. Completely off-topic for a customer to say to one of our chat representatives "****** you" for me to respond to that situation and then for you to jump in the middle with your isolated problem, in my opinion. 

Graham


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## ND (Jan 21, 2016)

I got to say if i'd just read the OP's post I would have kept it in the back of my mind and maybe placed an order anyway - but with the owner chiming in with such a negative tone on such a visible forum, I'm totally put off of any of their products. 
Who the heck wants to help that person to be successful?
Kill them with kindness. 
Not even a shade of owning the issues.


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## grahamclarkphoto (Jan 21, 2016)

Maui5150 said:


> grahamclarkphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Don't appreciate you throwing us under the bus on our first few manufacturing runs. Thanks for that.
> ...



I agree with you, that's why I don't do customer service. 

But from what I understand you're essentially asking us to keep the 1% of bad customers, and we can do that. 

We have a customer service team and they do incredible work every day, and we have thousands of happy customers, but read what I said before about the 1% or less, and you'll understand that we just don't have the time and energy for that. But they are quite the exception so I don't really think it's a problem. 

Graham


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## grahamclarkphoto (Jan 21, 2016)

sunnyVan said:


> d said:
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> > Hi Maui,
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I agree with you, but remember a customer who said to one of our chat representatives "****** you" "i'm going to troll you in the forums I hope you go broke" is the kind of customer that I'm dealing with here.

Everyone is on the side of this guy who was for all intents and purposes unreasonable and just simply wanting to stab us in the back when we did our best to help them. 

Again, less than 1% is like that and by no means should you take that as indicative of our customer service, Kathy and the customer service team does great work. 

Graham


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## grahamclarkphoto (Jan 21, 2016)

ND said:


> I got to say if i'd just read the OP's post I would have kept it in the back of my mind and maybe placed an order anyway - but with the owner chiming in with such a negative tone on such a visible forum, I'm totally put off of any of their products.
> Who the heck wants to help that person to be successful?
> Kill them with kindness.
> Not even a shade of owning the issues.



I'm doing my best to respond to a guy who said he wants to troll us in the forum, as he did, what issue am I not owning? 

Graham


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## Famateur (Jan 21, 2016)

Graham,

First, I'll say that I appreciate your presence on the site to address some members' concerns. I also appreciate that you're a photographer endeavoring to create a superior product, and from a technical perspective, seem to be succeeding. I also appreciate both the challenges of sudden growth and the heartburn that impatient and unreasonably aggressive customers can produce. I also recognize that dealing with angry people starts to wear one down and anyone can have a bad day and sound a little put-off because of it.

That said, I hope you'll take my comments about "bedside manner" in a constructive way. You have no obligation to read them and it's no skin off my nose if you ignore them. 8)

You are a photographer...who chose to become a business man. Like it or not, that means elevating the cordiality and patience in any and all communication -- even with those that are behaving unreasonably. That elevation doesn't require assumption of blame or acquiescence to every angry demand, but it does mean removing emotion from the communication. It means taking the high road _every _time.

As an operations manager with management of customer care within the scope of my duties, I would be very concerned if a representative of my company, at any level, used sarcasm in a response to a customer on a public forum. Seeing it from a founding member of a company is unsettling. 

You might consider the difference between the following responses:

A) "Don't appreciate you throwing us under the bus on our first few manufacturing runs. Thanks for that."

B) "There were certainly challenges in the first few manufacturing runs, and I can understand your concerns. Thanks for your patience and feedback! In the last year, we've implemented three levels of quality control and are confident that the products we're shipping will meet expectations in both quality and performance."

One carries an attitude of "don't let the door hit you on the way out of our store" while the other fosters confidence that your product is backed by people who stand by their customers as much as they stand by their product. With D's post, you had an opportunity to restore good will and even build loyalty (some of our most loyal customers are those who initially had a concern and were impressed by how it was resolved).

I understand that the majority of your customers are highly satisfied. However, there is a subtle but significant difference between overall satisfaction rate and customer service experience. People are easily satisfied when nothing goes wrong. That speaks more to the process than the service, though. Good customer service is defined by how the hiccups and concerns are handled -- even when dealing with the occasional rotten apple -- irrespective of the proportion those issues might represent in the overall satisfaction rate.

Okay...I've blathered on enough. I hope there is something helpful to you in this feedback. Good luck with your product and company.

Captain Preachy-Soapbox signing out...


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 21, 2016)

grahamclarkphoto said:


> As for throwing us under the bus, I was referring to you jumping on this thread which is completely unrelated to your problem. Completely off-topic for a customer to say to one of our chat representatives "****** you" for me to respond to that situation and then for you to jump in the middle with your isolated problem, in my opinion.



It appears to me that poster *d* had multiple problems, including the _unresolved_ problems of not receiving a refund of postage as promised and having subsequent attempts to resolve the issue ignored by your company. Both of those are quite clearly failures in customer service, and reducing those issues to early manufacturing problems is deflecting the issue. 

Posting about 'old' but still unresolved problems with poor customer service in a recent thread about poor customer service is quite germane, because it highlights the fact that the issues are long standing. 

Having read posts from *scottkinfw* over the course of many years, he seems like a reasonable and level-headed individual. Such people don't generally initiate a conversation with foul language, so perhaps you should investigate the interaction which led to that, and the role of your CS rep in that escalation. What I've read in this thread suggests that problems with customer service at your company are not so isolated as you seem to believe. Your responses on this forum really aren't helping your case.


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## grahamclarkphoto (Jan 21, 2016)

Famateur said:


> Graham,
> 
> First, I'll say that I appreciate your presence on the site to address some members' concerns. I also appreciate that you're a photographer endeavoring to create a superior product, and from a technical perspective, seem to be succeeding. I also appreciate both the challenges of sudden growth and the heartburn that impatient and unreasonably aggressive customers can produce. I also recognize that dealing with angry people starts to wear one down and anyone can have a bad day and sound a little put-off because of it.
> 
> ...





neuroanatomist said:


> grahamclarkphoto said:
> 
> 
> > As for throwing us under the bus, I was referring to you jumping on this thread which is completely unrelated to your problem. Completely off-topic for a customer to say to one of our chat representatives "****** you" for me to respond to that situation and then for you to jump in the middle with your isolated problem, in my opinion.
> ...



Thanks for your thoughtful response. I agree with you, and it's something I need to work on. 

Graham


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## tolusina (Jan 21, 2016)

grahamclarkphoto said:


> something I need



You posted all I need to know.......


grahamclarkphoto said:


> We're very selective with whom we do business, so don't take it personally if we refuse to do business with you.


I'm quite happy with B&W from B&H, thank you.


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## Famateur (Jan 21, 2016)

grahamclarkphoto said:


> Thanks for your thoughtful response. I agree with you, and it's something I need to work on.
> 
> Graham



You're most welcome, Graham, and I appreciate the gracious reception. Best of luck to you!


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## Jack Douglas (Jan 21, 2016)

"Thanks for your thoughtful response. I agree with you, and it's something I need to work on.

Graham"

Seems to me this sums it up - it finally sunk in. Good luck Graham, we all make mistakes.

Jack


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 21, 2016)

I'm a big supporter of Graham and Breakthrough Photography. The process of making and selling products is never going to be a perfect experience for every person that participates, especially when you throw crowdfunding into the mix.

Breakthrough Photography is the ONLY Kickstarter campaign I have ever promoted, because I trusted Graham was going to be able to deliver (which is still not the majority of KS campaigns) and he has and will continue to do so. I get requests weekly from people wanting me to promote their campaign on Kickstarter.

However, be reasonable as a customer and you're more often than not going to get reasonable treatment in return.

I've decided to lock this up, but it will remain on the forum.


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