# The latest mirrorless cameras - which one offers highest DR?



## Ricku (Aug 10, 2013)

I am thinking about picking up a mirrorless body for my off road landscape photography, because of their smaller size and weight. 

But which of the latest mirrorless camera systems offers the highest DR? I know that none of them are as good as the D800 when it comes to pushing shadows, but are there any mirrorless that is at least better than the 5D3?

Or should I keep waiting? It looks like Sony has a full frame NEX around the corner.


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## Eli (Aug 10, 2013)

You just want DR? No other factors?
Then Sony's rx1 is best mirrorless with highest DR, probably better than the 5d mkiii as well.


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## Ricku (Aug 10, 2013)

Eli said:


> You just want DR? No other factors?
> Then Sony's rx1 is best mirrorless with highest DR, probably better than the 5d mkiii as well.


Yes, only DR. I got the rest covered with my 5D3.
Improved DR at base ISO is the one important thing Canon has failed to deliver since 2008.

The RX1 is great, but it has a fixed lens that is too long for my work.


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## Hillsilly (Aug 10, 2013)

Sony are rumoured to be bringing out a FF NEX mirrorless camera in September. It should be pretty good.


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## elflord (Aug 10, 2013)

Ricku said:


> I am thinking about picking up a mirrorless body for my off road landscape photography, because of their smaller size and weight.
> 
> But which of the latest mirrorless camera systems offers the highest DR? I know that none of them are as good as the D800 when it comes to pushing shadows, but are there any mirrorless that is at least better than the 5D3?
> 
> Or should I keep waiting? It looks like Sony has a full frame NEX around the corner.



dxo mark -> cameras -> camera sensor ratings.

Click the "Dynamic range" tab. All the cameras on the list below (and several below them) beat the 5DIII on the dynamic range test. Anything that has a Sony sensor inside should perform pretty well here. 

The Sony models perform very well but if I were making this purchase I'd take the available lenses into account -- micro 4/3 models have a more mature lens system. The latest generation olympus cameras (EP5, EPL5, OM-D, E-PM2) and the Panasonic GH3 are candidates (that is, they do better than the 5DIII for dynamic range at base ISO)


Sony RX1
Nikon Coolpix A
Ricoh GR
Sony NEX 7
Sony NEX 5R
Sony NEX 6
Pentax K-01
Samsung NX20
Sony NEX 5N


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## Ricku (Aug 10, 2013)

Hillsilly said:


> Sony are rumoured to be bringing out a FF NEX mirrorless camera in September. It should be pretty good.


Yup! Thats what I've been told. I hope it is true. If it has the same exmor-sensor that the D800 has, or perhaps an improved version, it will be a very nice camera. I just hope they manage to make it at least as small as the Leica M.




elflord said:


> Ricku said:
> 
> 
> > I am thinking about picking up a mirrorless body for my off road landscape photography, because of their smaller size and weight.
> ...



Thanks man! That is exactly what I have been looking for.

I knew about DxO before, but kinda forgot about them.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 10, 2013)

Ricku said:


> It looks like Sony has a full frame NEX around the corner.



I'll take one with 14 or 16mm prime f2.8. I hope they could keep the body size as RX1 : : : 

I recently pickup RX100 II. IQ is quite amazing for 1" sensor. I can almost say it out perform EOS-M. Not to mention the size is very pocketable. Sony been kicking "As" with compact cameras lately.

The only reason I'm still shooting with 5D III is be able to track moving subject(my kids). Otherwise, I don't give a dam how good Canon lenses are. Zeiss lenses on Sony are just fine for an ave Joe's like me.

Just make it better, smaller and faster...I'm all in for that.


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## sdsr (Aug 10, 2013)

Ricku said:


> Eli said:
> 
> 
> > You just want DR? No other factors?
> ...



Since the RX1's lens is too long for your work, then no, you're not just interested in DR - you need a system with good wide lenses (unless you plan to attach your Canon lenses, which rather defeats the point of getting a small camera). The best there is M43, where the wide end includes the much-lauded Panasonic 7-14mm, Olympus 9-18 mm, Olympus 12mm and Panasonic 14mm (all x2 for FF equiv.)

The OM-D's Sony sensor has very good dynamic range; I've not compared it directly with my 5D or 5DIII, but I can say that it doesn't seem to have the 5DIII's banding problem (but then neither does the 6D). That said, Olympus is supposedly announcing an even higher end OM-D in September; perhaps its sensor will be even better than the current OM-D's (the EP5's may be too, for all I know). Olympus and Sony are collaborating in various ways - Sony is getting Olympus's remarkably IBIS system, and in exchange Olympus is getting improved Sony sensors, so there may be further improvements before too long.

Of course, if you're very patient, the results of this development - assuming they ever show up - will make even the D800 look obsolete:

http://www.extremetech.com/electronics/158209-organic-photo-sensor-dumps-silicon-promises-to-shatter-cmos-imaging-limits

With luck such a sensor will end up in Panasonic M43 bodies....


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## drjlo (Aug 10, 2013)

Hillsilly said:


> Sony are rumoured to be bringing out a FF NEX mirrorless camera in September. It should be pretty good.



Unfortunately it's rumored to be $3K body-only, with lens $1.5K range, so we're looking at a $4500 camera. Oh well, at least Sony appears to be innovating, something sorely missing from CaNikon


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## Aglet (Aug 10, 2013)

Pentax K-01 or any of the recent Fuji X series will kick butt for low ISO DR.


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## Eli (Aug 10, 2013)

sdsr said:


> Ricku said:
> 
> 
> > Eli said:
> ...



Exactly, you just contradicted yourself Ricku. It may help if you listed what else you were looking for in the camera, eg a wider angle lens.


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## Ricku (Aug 10, 2013)

Eli said:


> sdsr said:
> 
> 
> > Ricku said:
> ...


Well not really. When I said that I was looking for a mirrorless with good DR, I meant a camera with interchangable lens system. I thought that was kinda obvious.  I mean, theres probably zero landscape shooters who would be satisfied with a fixed lens.

But back to topic.


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## Eli (Aug 11, 2013)

Ricku said:


> Eli said:
> 
> 
> > sdsr said:
> ...



"But which of the latest mirrorless camera systems offers the highest DR?"
- "You just want DR? No other factors?"
"Yes, only DR."

Mirrorless doesn't always mean interchangeable lenses.

And who knows, maybe you could've been a 35mm fov landscape photographer, that's why I asked if there were any other factors you were after.
Sort've like when people say "HAI GAIZ what's the BEST camera I can get".. without stating what they shoot, what features they're after, their budget, etc.


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## NormanBates (Aug 11, 2013)

If you want DR on a small and light package with wide FoV and a sharp image, and care about price too, then you're probably looking for a NEX7 or NEX-5R with the sigma 19mm f/2.8. Surprisingly powerful little combo.


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## rumorzmonger (Aug 11, 2013)

Eli said:


> Mirrorless doesn't always mean interchangeable lenses.



It does to most people, certainly in this context.

"Mirrorless" was a description coined for interchangeable-lens digital cameras that used an electronic viewfinder instead of a traditional reflex-type viewfinder. 

If not, then we've had "mirrorless" cameras since Fox-Talbot...


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## Dylan777 (Aug 11, 2013)

drjlo said:


> Unfortunately it's rumored to be $3K body-only, with lens $1.5K range, so we're looking at a $4500 camera. Oh well, at least Sony appears to be innovating, something sorely missing from CaNikon



There is no dif in Canon world. 

Mark my words. If Sony releases FF mirrorless(with same or near body size as RX1) that allow shooter to swap lenses, I will pre-order with 14mm or 16mm lens.


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## Eli (Aug 11, 2013)

rumorzmonger said:


> Eli said:
> 
> 
> > Mirrorless doesn't always mean interchangeable lenses.
> ...



There are both mirrorless system cameras and mirrorless _interchangeable _lens system cameras.
The RX1 is considered a mirrorless system camera, the Fuji X100/s is considered a mirrorless system camera.
And in the "context" of the original post, it wasn't stated that he wanted an *interchangeable *system.


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## Hillsilly (Aug 11, 2013)

drjlo said:


> Unfortunately it's rumored to be $3K body-only, with lens $1.5K range, so we're looking at a $4500 camera. Oh well, at least Sony appears to be innovating, something sorely missing from CaNikon



Yeah, that's the one thing I don't quite get with mirrorless cameras. Compared with DSLRs, they are generally less feature packed, have slower performance and are easier to construct with fewer components. You would expect that the bodies would be priced accordingly. A FF NEX should be priced similar to a 6D. But unfortunately, the bodies are priced at how much people are prepared to pay. Even at $3k, there will be huge interest in this one.

$1500 for a good lens doesn't seem too bad. Some of the Sony and Zeiss lenses are (almost!) as good as comparable "L" lenses and priced accordingly.

And just to weigh in on the debate above, when someone asks about a mirrorless "body", I think it is reasonable to conclude they are referring to an interchangeable lens camera. Not that it really matters that much. A lot of landscape photographers do well with a fixed lens camera.


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## brad-man (Aug 11, 2013)

I'd be interested to know how Sony's licensing agreements for their sensors (particularly exmor) are structured. Do they simply sell their sensors to other companies to do with as they wish? Or does Sony have control over what "types" of cameras their sensors are used in by other manufacturers. If the latter, then Sony could dominate the FF mirrorless market for some time to come. The only competition being a $6000 Leica shouldn't be much of a problem.


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