# Canon EOS-1D X Mark II to Shoot 4K Video [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 6, 2015)

```
We’re told that the upcoming Canon EOS-1D X Mark II (if that’s the name) will indeed shoot 4K video, which sounds like good news. However, we’re told not to expect a very video orientated product, as the camera’s primary focus will be on the still photographer. We’re also told that this will be the only next generation DSLR in the lineup that will shoot 4K video at launch.</p>
<p>There will likely be another EF mount product some time in the next 18 months that will shoot 4K, but it won’t be a DSLR.</p>
<p>Not much else is being said about the next iteration of Canon’s flagship DSLR.</p>
```


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## Haydn1971 (Oct 6, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> There will likely be another EF mount product some time in the next 18 months that will shoot 4K, but it won’t be a DSLR.



Full frame mirrorless in a 5D style body with EVF ?

CR that one ;-) haha


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## PureClassA (Oct 6, 2015)

I wish we had a better idea of what Canon is seeing that makes them think they can't make a play in the $2500-$3500 DSLR Video market for 4K. At least that's what this rumor reads like if we assume it completely accurate for argument sake.

1DX2 with 4k is great, but if they don't plan on putting the video bells and whistles of the 1DC, then seems even more critical to create a 5ish body for cinema/video or something of that sort, with EF mount. A 5 body with the mirror removed perhaps? Wouldn't be a bad idea. Most people love the ergonomics of that body and it balances so well with L glass.

I'm trying to add video to my repertoire and I keep hoping Canon develops something competitive that isn't $7k or $15k. We are now well beyond the point of having those prices as a floor for 4K.


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## privatebydesign (Oct 6, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> We’re told that the upcoming Canon EOS-1D X Mark II (if that’s the name) will indeed shoot 4K video, which sounds like good news. However, we’re told not to expect a very video orientated product, as the camera’s primary focus will be on the still photographer. We’re also told that this will be the only next generation DSLR in the lineup that will shoot 4K video at launch.</p>
> <p>There will likely be another EF mount product some time in the next 18 months that will shoot 4K, but it won’t be a DSLR.</p>
> <p>Not much else is being said about the next iteration of Canon’s flagship DSLR.</p>



I said all that weeks ago in relation to the clamouring that the 5D MkIV _"must have 4K or it is DOA"_ bull.

The 1DX MkII will get at least the video capability of the 1DC, and the 5D MkIV will not have 4K, it will have very good 1080 or slightly larger.


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## rs (Oct 6, 2015)

This sounds like good news. This indicates the hardware supports high speed - sensor readout, processing, throughput and storage - all of which bode well for a high speed stills camera.


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## leGreve (Oct 6, 2015)

In other words.... hybrid people or slightly video heavy people will not care one bit about neither the 1D-X or the 5D4.... Canon are really playing their cards wrong.

At the same time you could get a shoot ready Ursa 4.6k camera for just a little more than what the 1Dx costs, and you would be able to framegrab stills if needed off that footage.

I really had high hopes for the 5D4, but not anymore.


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## midluk (Oct 6, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> We’re also told that this will be the only next generation DSLR in the lineup that will shoot 4K video *at launch*


Does that mean they plan to do some small upgrade (like 5D mark IV B) to enable 4K Video on one of the next generation DSLRs without launching a complete new product?


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## ahsanford (Oct 6, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> We’re also told that this will be the only next generation DSLR in the lineup that will shoot 4K video at launch.



Oof. If I have this right, this would mean:


If you are a 5D3/5DS/5DS R user and want 4K capable stills rig, Canon says: "Go buy a 1DX II. Say goodbye to a lot of money."


If you are a 1DX owner (or more likely, an old 1Ds3 owner) and want a 50 MP sensor, Canon says: "Go buy a 5DS/5DS R. Say goodbye to your integral grip and exclusive 1-series features."

Neither of those statements should warm our hearts.

It's possible the 'won't shoot 4K video at launch' comment gets to a theory myself and others have had before: perhaps 4k will work on the 5D4 natively but Canon won't let anyone know. It could be launched with a defeat in the firmware that blocks 4K recording -- we'd be none the wiser as the official specs and menus wouldn't have a 4K option listed. Canon would keep 4k relegated to the priciest rigs and then -- _if and only if 5D4 sales tank without 4K_ -- voila, a firmware change is pushed out that unlocks it for us. 

- A


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## ahsanford (Oct 6, 2015)

My 4K rambling notwithstanding, this is leading to a very odd segmentation of the FF SLR rigs:

1D-level:

Sports, wildlife, action --> 1DX / 1DX II
Events, videographers, reportage, etc. --> 1DC / 1DC II someday?
*Landscape, studio --> SOL (there is no high MP studio/tripod rig coming with the 5DS sensor that I've heard of)*

5D-level:

General all-around workhorse --> 5D4
*Videographers --> SOL (No 4K option -- use the 5D4, I guess?)*
Landscape, studio --> 5DS / 5DS R

Seems to me that there are two major missing pieces in the SLR pipeline -- high MP in a 1D body and 4K at the 5D level. I'm not arguing for 6 rigs for the two brand levels, but all the various segmentation calls they've already made (5DS, 1DC, etc.) are building expectations that there will be specialized bodies at each level.

- A


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## WeekendWarrior (Oct 6, 2015)

lol Canon is running dead last in a marathon while still choosing to stop and take water breaks.. 

IMO, they are is screwed if they decide not to put 4K in the 5D Mark 4..


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## rs (Oct 6, 2015)

leGreve said:


> At the same time you could get a shoot ready Ursa 4.6k camera for just a little more than what the 1Dx costs, and you would be able to framegrab stills if needed off that footage.



That's not in the same market. The 1D X replacement is rumoured to remain firmly a stills camera above anything else, and no-one who is planning on buying the ultimate fast stills camera would consider a video camera instead.

If you choose an Ursa, forget about fairly standard stills camera features such as AF, metering optimised for each frame, an OVF, and a full frame sensor. The existing 1D X has all of these features very near to perfection.


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## rs (Oct 6, 2015)

WeekendWarrior said:


> lol Canon is running dead last in a marathon while still choosing to stop and take water breaks..
> 
> IMO, they are is screwed if they decide not to put 4K in the 5D Mark 4..



Strange, I was under the impression that Canon were years ahead of the competition when it came to putting 4K video in a stills camera. 

Anyway, regarding Canon being screwed for not putting 4K in the 5D series, it depends upon which market you are talking about. If you're talking about the market of purchasers who prioritise high resolution video over everything else in a stills camera, then yes, they'll quite clearly Canon will be screwed as they will not retain that particular market with this one model.


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## ahsanford (Oct 6, 2015)

rs said:


> leGreve said:
> 
> 
> > At the same time you could get a shoot ready Ursa 4.6k camera for just a little more than what the 1Dx costs, and you would be able to framegrab stills if needed off that footage.
> ...



+1. 

We are so far off from the days of only shooting video and just pulling stills from video. The technology to capture stills from video is there and is happening right now, but not at the same quality, flexibility, speed, and control of taking stills on a stills rig. AF and using the whole (waaay bigger than 4K) sensor are the killer apps on the stills side, but yes, OVF, metering per frame, etc. all matter as well. All good points from rs.

So until that time comes, videographers should buy dedicated video rigs and stills folks who do occasional video work will buy 1D and 5D rigs. Those markets and their needs are still very different and require different products. 

- A


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## Nininini (Oct 6, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Canon are clearly ignoring where the market is going, likely to protect the Cinema EOS line.
> 
> Or to put it more simply, the 1DXII can have 4K because it is more expensive than the C100MarkII and because other DSLRs are cheaper than the C100II, they "forbidden" from having 4K.
> 
> If I wasn't pissed at Canon as a DSLR manufacturer before, I surely am now.



It's not that simple, canon explained it before and it has been asked many times.

"My smartphone X,Y,Z can shoot in 4k, why can't canon product X,Y,Z do the same??".

The problem is heat, anything APS-C and above shooting in 4k produces a massive amount of heat. Look at Sony, their cameras are actually shutting down to protect the internals from melting during 4k recording.

It's not the case that Canon wants to "protect their EOS line", they're entirely different markets, it's a technological problem.

It is far more complex than just a firmware update.


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## SwnSng (Oct 6, 2015)

It's funny to see all the folks that also want 4k for the 5dMkIV scream that the sky is falling if they don't get this feature. This is how I see it...if you are stills person who shoots video from time to time, you won't really care all that much about getting 4K other than the typical Gear Heads who wants all the bells and whistles but really never uses them. If you were really invested into Video and doing PAID work shelling out the extra dough for a 1DXMKII seems reasonable enough. All the people who shoot stills and think of video as an after thought which probably make the bulk of 5D sales won't be crying a river if 4k doesn't make it.


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## CarlMillerPhoto (Oct 6, 2015)

The super low-budget video market is not a money maker. Pure and simple. Canon isn't losing much money by not catering to that crowd. I use to cry outrage over Canon's seemingly dormant state compared to Sony and Panasonic in regards to video features. But the fact of the matter is they've been producing incredible pieces of video equipment all along, only at a much higher premium. I've shot with everything and would not trade my C100 for any of it while filming a wedding. My clients don't want 4k. Hell, they order more DVD's than blu-rays even. 

Everything's a compromise. Panasonic you get poor low light performance. Sony you get poor battery life, world's worst menu/software, and overheating issues. Canon you have a smaller bank account after.


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## gunship01 (Oct 6, 2015)

Don't want it to have video. Would rather have a $4,000 to $5,000 killer camera to shoot well in low light and write as fast as it can to the CF card. 24-30MB will work. Don't need GPS built-in. Keep whistles to minimum. 

I know it will not happen but hey, optimism reigns supreme.


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## ahsanford (Oct 6, 2015)

Nininini said:


> It's not that simple, canon explained it before and it has been asked many times.
> 
> "My smartphone X,Y,Z can shoot in 4k, why can't canon product X,Y,Z do the same??".
> 
> ...



I agree, but didn't they figure out FF 4K video with the 1D C*, _some three years ago?_ That rig wasn't packing a boatload of additional heat sinks or something -- wasn't it basically a stock 1DX internally?

(*I don't understand video recording onboard vs. with an external recorder and all that -- please explain it to me. I very well may be missing an obvious distinction at play here.)

Unless I've misunderstood the quality / compression / style of 4K people wish to record -- which is entirely possible as I am a stills guy -- it would seem reasonable to bring that feature set downmarket to the 5D line. 

- A


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## jeffa4444 (Oct 6, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> We’re told that the upcoming Canon EOS-1D X Mark II (if that’s the name) will indeed shoot 4K video, which sounds like good news. However, we’re told not to expect a very video orientated product, as the camera’s primary focus will be on the still photographer. We’re also told that this will be the only next generation DSLR in the lineup that will shoot 4K video at launch.</p>
> <p>There will likely be another EF mount product some time in the next 18 months that will shoot 4K, but it won’t be a DSLR.</p>
> <p>Not much else is being said about the next iteration of Canon’s flagship DSLR.</p>


Maybe its in the words "that will shoot 4K video at launch". Conceivably Canon could launch a 5D MKIV and retrospectively apply 4K in a firmware upgrade. Arri have steadily improved the Alexa from 2.8K to 3.6K since launch through hardware & software changes with the latest incarnation upresizing to UHD for instance. 36x24mm has a diagonal of 43.26mm which is Vistavision in cinema terms or twice the area of the Alexa sensor. Canon are developing the 8K cinema camera but thats 16x9 cinema i.e. half frame effectively and will charge arms & legs for it and the pictures will be oversampled to 4K long into the conceivable future. 
Not all 4K is equal just as not all 6K is equal or 8K for that matter for instance Red Weapon 8K camera is Vistavision yet Arri Alexa 65 6.5K actually has a sensor larger than 70mm big pixels vs smaller pixels, full frame stills lenses verses Hasselblad Fujinon lenses with totally different DOF. 
In TV and motion picture your virtually never see a DSLR any longer not with so many purpose built 4K, 6K and soon to be 8K video cameras DSLRs are a compromise just as video cameras dont make great stills cameras.


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## ahsanford (Oct 6, 2015)

jeffa4444 said:


> Maybe its in the words "that will shoot 4K video at launch". Conceivably Canon could launch a 5D MKIV and retrospectively apply 4K in a firmware upgrade. Arri have steadily improved the Alexa from 2.8K to 3.6K since launch through hardware & software changes with the latest incarnation upresizing to UHD for instance. 36x24mm has a diagonal of 43.26mm which is Vistavision in cinema terms or twice the area of the Alexa sensor. Canon are developing the 8K cinema camera but thats 16x9 cinema i.e. half frame effectively and will charge arms & legs for it and the pictures will be oversampled to 4K long into the conceivable future.
> Not all 4K is equal just as not all 6K is equal or 8K for that matter for instance Red Weapon 8K camera is Vistavision yet Arri Alexa 65 6.5K actually has a sensor larger than 70mm big pixels vs smaller pixels, full frame stills lenses verses Hasselblad Fujinon lenses with totally different DOF.
> In TV and motion picture your virtually never see a DSLR any longer not with so many purpose built 4K, 6K and soon to be 8K video cameras DSLRs are a compromise just as video cameras dont make great stills cameras.



Number of people on this thread that have implied that "at launch" means that Canon is holding out 4K on the 5D4 and might release it post-launch via firmware = 3.

We might be on to something here. :

- A


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## privatebydesign (Oct 6, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> Nininini said:
> 
> 
> > It's not that simple, canon explained it before and it has been asked many times.
> ...



No and no. The 1DC shoots 4K in a native pixel APS-H crop mode and it does have a rather large internal heat sink/pipe arrangement. The hardware also differs from the 1DX in the audio ports.


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## privatebydesign (Oct 6, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> jeffa4444 said:
> 
> 
> > Maybe its in the words "that will shoot 4K video at launch". Conceivably Canon could launch a 5D MKIV and retrospectively apply 4K in a firmware upgrade. Arri have steadily improved the Alexa from 2.8K to 3.6K since launch through hardware & software changes with the latest incarnation upresizing to UHD for instance. 36x24mm has a diagonal of 43.26mm which is Vistavision in cinema terms or twice the area of the Alexa sensor. Canon are developing the 8K cinema camera but thats 16x9 cinema i.e. half frame effectively and will charge arms & legs for it and the pictures will be oversampled to 4K long into the conceivable future.
> ...


I speculated that here months ago too........


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## ahsanford (Oct 6, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > I agree, but didn't they figure out FF 4K video with the 1D C*, _some three years ago?_ That rig wasn't packing a boatload of additional heat sinks or something -- wasn't it basically a stock 1DX internally?
> ...



I knew of the audio port difference but not the heat sink. Thank you for sharing -- I did not know that.

- A


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 6, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Canon are clearly ignoring where the market is going, likely to protect the Cinema EOS line.



What will be interesting to find out is whether the market is going that way, or whether manufacturers are merely adding the functionality hoping to create the market in the same way canon created the "HDSLR" market (inadvertently, form many reports) with the 5D2.


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## Mitch.Conner (Oct 6, 2015)

I'll be shocked if the 5D4 doesn't have 4k.


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## Etienne (Oct 7, 2015)

Mitch.Conner said:


> I'll be shocked if the 5D4 doesn't have 4k.



Me too. The 5D3 is the affordable do-everything camera. I expect the 5D4 will be the same, and today 4K is pretty much considered a standard in new cameras.


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## preppyak (Oct 7, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> My 4K rambling notwithstanding, this is leading to a very odd segmentation of the FF SLR rigs:
> 
> 1D-level:
> 
> ...


Seems pretty easy to explain, at least for the studio side. They likely think the 5Ds is plenty for a studio photog, and anyone demanding more is probably going medium format anyway. Same really could be said of landscape, though, I think there is a strong argument for the weather-sealing of a 1D body there.

Is there really competition for high MP at the 1D level anyway? Sony doesnt have it, and I dont know of a Nikon top-level body that shoots 50+MP either.



> 5D-level:
> 
> General all-around workhorse --> 5D4
> *Videographers --> SOL (No 4K option -- use the 5D4, I guess?)*
> Landscape, studio --> 5DS / 5DS R


This, on the other hand, seems to be a common Canon philosophy. They dont particularly care if the prosumer market wants their video cameras. They want the pro market. Which, is probably a good strategy. It allows them to target pricier cameras at the rental and studio models, while targeting cheaper cameras at production studios. And they can largely ignore all the R&D costs of making 4k work on a 5dIV body that might not fully support it.

Sucks as an end user, but, truth is the market for 4k video has ditched Canon already. If you need 4k, then you moved to Panasonic or Sony already. And if you cant afford to make that move, then you are kind of proving Canon's point....the disposable income isnt there in that market.


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## kendog (Oct 7, 2015)

I think 4k now is not a deal buster as most people right now aren't setup for it and universal compliance are just coming into play. I rather see better DR and a new mechanism for the shutter. In high speed it's just to noisy even in their quiet mode. And of course improve focusing especial in low light.


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## expatinasia (Oct 7, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> However, we’re told not to expect a very video orientated product, as the camera’s primary focus will be on the still photographer.



For me this just means, don't expect them to add a headphone jack, and other fancy ??? video related things like that.

It's still only a CR2, but I would be *very* happy if the 1D X Mark II does have 4K video. I shoot a lot of stills, but I also shoot an enormous amount of video and am very happy with the quality of video that the 1D X produces. If it can do 4K, then even better.


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## davidmurray (Oct 7, 2015)

dilbert said:


> If the 5DIV arrives in 2016 without 4K then it will 2019, maybe 2020, before the equivalent DSLR from Canon has 4K.



I don't have a problem with that because I prefer to use an actual video camera to record video, and a stills camera to take photographs.


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## kevl (Oct 7, 2015)

News like the OP makes it very unlikely I'll invest in more Canon glass at this time. If the 5D4 won't have 4K then it seems like Canon doesn't think they need to release a high end product for the $4K they'll ask for it. Other companies are willing to earn my $. 

So frustrating.


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## ajay (Oct 7, 2015)

I have been a Canon shooter for 20 years +. I always felt Canon produced the best lenses and cameras on the market. Since the 5D Mark II, they have been falling behind the pack.

I once owned the 1DX but preferred the 5D Mark III due to the weight of the camera and lack of silent shooting (at least at multiple frames per second).

However, I now also own a Panasonic GH4 that I use almost exclusively for 4k video.

I have a hard time seeing myself plunk down at least 5k on a 1DX II for 4k video...and then we don't know what kind of features it will have. Things like focus peaking are a must.

If the 5D Mark IV doesn't have 4k, I guarantee you my next camera will not be Canon since nowadays I do just as much filming as photography.

For the past few years I have really grown to be disappointed in Canon's product line.

Their market share will continue to erode unless they come out with cameras that beat the competition.

AJ


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 7, 2015)

Wow, unbelievable. What tools. The very revolution they created they have no given up on. Well, go ahead, protect your precious internal product segmentation. I'm now moving to SOny, forget Canon. Too slow, too much into milking old stuff and expecting the fanboys to cheer (they probably will, so Canon will probably get away with it (for stills, they area already done for in the DSLR video market), which will probably mean good stuff will be yet still another another generation away, done waiting).


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 7, 2015)

as much as I hate it since I love the Canon UI compared to Nikon and love the Canon lenses, maybe it's time even to just forget Canon and not even bother with the half-way solution of adding Sony to Canon and just go Nikon all the way, if the D820 is the A7R II but with DSLR AF, 6fps FF, 7fps APS-C crop mode, yeah bye Canon.

They jsut don't care, all they care is to deliver as little as they as slowly as they can and get away with it. Maybe that works for them, but it sure don't work for me. I can't shoot video or take shots with a short term stock report (and eventually, at some point, it's gotta eventually hurt them long term, even if it may still be some time out). But their whole attitude is nothing like the old Canon I used to know.

I have serious doubts the 5D4 will even get better DR and the on chip ADC. Maybe the 5D5. But who wants to wait? Many here in this particular rather rah-rah whatever they do forum maybe, but not me.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 7, 2015)

A7RII and adapter ordered. Eagerly awaiting to see D820 specs late next year.


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## CanoKnight (Oct 7, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> this will be the only next generation DSLR in the lineup that will shoot 4K video at launch.</p>



The 7d2 will be my last Canon SLR.


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## CanoKnight (Oct 7, 2015)

The 5d4 will be a rehash of the 5d3 which was a rehash of the 5d2. Canon might throw in the double pixel focus or whatever it is from the 7d2, there will be more noise smearing at high ISOs which Canon will call better high ISO performance, shutter will be tested anywhere from 500k to 1M, pixel count will be bumped to 30MP, there will be a few more added buttons and levers that will activate functionality you had never thought of (because you never needed it), menu will have more multicolored windows ... and whatever else you can imagine that you don't need. The two things it will *not* have are 2 stops more dynamic range and 4k video.


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## Silvertt7 (Oct 7, 2015)

Wow Canon... serious fumble here. 5D4 not to get 4K.. THE dslr that pretty much started the whole video-in-dslr movement will lag behind smart PHONES, Nikon, Sony.


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## nehemiah (Oct 7, 2015)

I have a 5D3 and am ordering the 5D4 when available. I do think that many here underestimate the number of photographers who do not care much about video.


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## gsealy (Oct 7, 2015)

I suspect that the 'non DSLR' 4K camera of which they speak will be an upgrade to the C500 so that it competes with the more expensive competitors such as the Arri and Red. They might even go 8K or 16K. It seems that the 1DXII will be the 'cross over' vehicle and merge the current 1Dx and the 1Dc products. Just guessing, of course.


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## DanThePhotoMan (Oct 7, 2015)

I'm just going to go out on a limb and say that 90% of the people who are complaining about the 5Dmk4 won't have any use, what so ever, for 4k video. This past weekend I shot a promo video for a local Crossfit, and guess what? I edited in a 720p timeline to punch in a little since we only had a 1 camera interview setup. Guess what? No one noticed. No one complained. I pitched it to a few of my video film buddies and they said they couldn't tell the difference. 

Too many people want a camera that doesn't exist. You wanna know what would be nice? A 5D style body with A7s low light capabilities, 10fps photos, wifi, 4k video, 2 XLR inputs, dual pixel autofocus, focus peaking, wave forms, histograms, swivel screen, ability to load LUTs in camera, and a stabilized sensor. But guess what? Not gonna happen. 

As the saying goes, get the right tool for the job. If you need a stills camera, buy a stills camera. Need cameras for stills and video but don't want to buy two bodies and want to complain a company isn't making your perfect camera? Get over it and get out of the business. It's an investment. Deal with it. If you don't make enough to afford both, that's not the companies fault. Up your game.

Now, I'm not trying to stick up for Canon. I have happily moved from Canon to Sony for video and it has been wonderful, but I happily shoot stills on my 5Dmk3 as well. 

Canon did not mean to invent a video revolution. They stumbled into it, and they are under no obligation to anyone to continue advancing faster than any other company.


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## unfocused (Oct 7, 2015)

All this whining over a CR2 rumor that's not even on the 5DIV, which won't even be announced for at least six months or more. 

Unless there are technological reasons why it can't be done well (and Canon is a conservative company that does not release half-baked products) the 5D IV will have 4K video.

Wouldn't it be amusing if Canon pulled a "7D I" and announced a major firmware upgrade to the 5D III that incorporated 4K video? (That wouldn't be "at launch" now would it?)

Seriously, this does raise a point I've made in the past – I believe Canon will continue to develop and market hybrid stills/video cameras that offer the best of both worlds *as long as it is technologically possible to do so.*

It may very well be that we are reaching the point where the market is going to diverge again because the sophistication of video and stills is so great that a camera can't be developed that does both things exceptionally well.


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 7, 2015)

DanThePhotoMan said:


> This past weekend I shot a promo video for a local Crossfit, and guess what? I edited in a 720p timeline to punch in a little since we only had a 1 camera interview setup. Guess what? No one noticed. No one complained. I pitched it to a few of my video film buddies and they said they couldn't tell the difference.



They couldn't tell the difference between your 720p video and what? The 4K video you didn't show them?

I can't tell the difference between my a7r2 frames and the same frames taken with the prototype 120MP canon. Just saying.


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## tvexecutive (Oct 7, 2015)

I'm a sports photographer. I use the 1DX to shoot sports. If we need or use a video camera to shoot sports it is NOTHING like a 1DX. 

Even a cheap consumer Sony PXW-Z100 is better suited for video. If you shoot pro-sports and need serious equipment then a Sony PMW-F55 CineAlta is a beautiful piece of equipment as it shoot over 200fps for stunning slow-mo

We've know for years that the 1DX could be hacked to shoot video but that's not what "I" need as a sports shooter. I have to believe at 4K Canon's 1DX MKII would be for a VERY small user group. Why??? Why??? When there are so many better video options

Canon is on the cusp of real product reliability issues with my fellow sports shooters who use 1DX bodies. We ALL travel with 3 bodies now because of oil and debris issues with 1DX's we have to get the shot. Shooting stills for the Olympics in 2016 we want and improved 1DX not a video camera. We need a 1DX THAT DOES NOT SPEW OIL, freeze, stop focusing or blow a PCB. 

Canon better get back to serving pro-users so we're 2-3 steps in front and not playing catch up. I don't need a video TOY. We pay $10,000 to $12,000 for our lenses to take amazing stills. A NEW 1DX that will NOT spew oil will be fine. Please not a another BOMB with service recalls, service advisories and units that BRICK. How about a camera without "issues" that allows pros to work without FEAR so we don't have to lug all these back-up bodies around. 

Get back to BASICS CANON. You're going to lose a market that you'll NEVER get back


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## expatinasia (Oct 7, 2015)

tvexecutive said:


> I'm a sports photographer. I use the 1DX to shoot sports. If we need or use a video camera to shoot sports it is NOTHING like a 1DX.
> 
> Even a cheap consumer Sony PXW-Z100 is better suited for video. If you shoot pro-sports and need serious equipment then a Sony PMW-F55 CineAlta is a beautiful piece of equipment as it shoot over 200fps for stunning slow-mo
> 
> ...



I also shoot sports, a lot of international events, and for stills the 1D X is the best there is.

But I also shoot a lot of video, and for the type of video I do the 1D X is terrific. 

I can shoot sports and do the type of video I need to do all on one machine. How great is that! Especially because international travel is concerned so weight is an issue I need to watch.

If you are also a sport shooter then I doubt you will leave Canon because the 1D X II also does 4K. Same as you did not leave Canon as the 1D X can shoot video too. That's just too funny.


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## ahsanford (Oct 7, 2015)

nehemiah said:


> I have a 5D3 and am ordering the 5D4 when available. I do think that many here underestimate the number of photographers who do not care much about video.



I hear you, I am not a video guy at all, but unless the 5D4 runs circles around my 5D3 or Canon uncharacteristically drops spot metering at any AF point into it, I won't upgrade. I'm sure the 5D4 will be a fine camera, but _will it be $3500-4000 better than the one I have? _ I doubt that very much.

- A


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## DanThePhotoMan (Oct 7, 2015)

3kramd5 said:


> DanThePhotoMan said:
> 
> 
> > This past weekend I shot a promo video for a local Crossfit, and guess what? I edited in a 720p timeline to punch in a little since we only had a 1 camera interview setup. Guess what? No one noticed. No one complained. I pitched it to a few of my video film buddies and they said they couldn't tell the difference.
> ...




720p and any other 1080p video I've showed them beforehand. The point being that 1080p is more than sufficient for just about anything, especially when 720p is still fine. 

Go ahead and look at the 4k video that is coming from your A7r2. Ask almost any videographer and guess what? They prefer the look of the 1080p from the A7s. More resolution does not make a better image.


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## emko (Oct 7, 2015)

Nininini said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > Canon are clearly ignoring where the market is going, likely to protect the Cinema EOS line.
> ...



nope not true i have hit the 30min record limit multiple times no shut downs what so ever, whats funny is a T2i/550d i had multiple times stop working because it got to hot but my 5d3 does not and those shot only 1080p.


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## M_S (Oct 7, 2015)

jeffa4444 said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > We’re told that the upcoming Canon EOS-1D X Mark II (if that’s the name) will indeed shoot 4K video, which sounds like good news. However, we’re told not to expect a very video orientated product, as the camera’s primary focus will be on the still photographer. We’re also told that this will be the only next generation DSLR in the lineup that will shoot 4K video at launch.</p>
> ...



I don't buy a camera that might or might not receive an update in the future that brings a feature I want in that camera from the start. If 4K is not in the 5D IV from the get go with some descent features (Log curves, zebras, focus peaking etc) then this will be a miss and I won't purchase that camera to replace my 5d III. Easy as that. No features I want, no money from me. There are other great cameras out there which take stills and shoot great video and take my lenses.


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## Tugela (Oct 7, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> We’re told that the upcoming Canon EOS-1D X Mark II (if that’s the name) will indeed shoot 4K video, which sounds like good news. However, we’re told not to expect a very video orientated product, as the camera’s primary focus will be on the still photographer. We’re also told that this will be the only next generation DSLR in the lineup that will shoot 4K video at launch.</p>
> <p>There will likely be another EF mount product some time in the next 18 months that will shoot 4K, but it won’t be a DSLR.</p>
> <p>Not much else is being said about the next iteration of Canon’s flagship DSLR.</p>



If this rumor is correct then it means that the 5D4 will not have 4K, contrary to all the other rumors out there. One or the other must be false.


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## Tugela (Oct 7, 2015)

rs said:


> WeekendWarrior said:
> 
> 
> > lol Canon is running dead last in a marathon while still choosing to stop and take water breaks..
> ...



Almost all GH4, NX1 and various recent versions of the a7 sold represent sales Canon would have made if they had been on the ball, but didn't. That represents a very significant chunk of the high end consumer market that they have basically pissed away by being so conservative.

If they had put real video features in their cameras starting from circa 70D then all those other cameras would not have happened.

That is what happens when a geriatric company does not have the foresight to see where the market is going.

And the worst part is that they STILL don't get it! 8(


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## Tugela (Oct 7, 2015)

CarlMillerPhoto said:


> The super low-budget video market is not a money maker. Pure and simple. Canon isn't losing much money by not catering to that crowd. I use to cry outrage over Canon's seemingly dormant state compared to Sony and Panasonic in regards to video features. But the fact of the matter is they've been producing incredible pieces of video equipment all along, only at a much higher premium. I've shot with everything and would not trade my C100 for any of it while filming a wedding. My clients don't want 4k. Hell, they order more DVD's than blu-rays even.
> 
> Everything's a compromise. Panasonic you get poor low light performance. Sony you get poor battery life, world's worst menu/software, and overheating issues. Canon you have a smaller bank account after.



Maybe professionals shoot SD because their clients want it, but that doesn't mean that the people who shoot video for personal use on prosumer equipment want it as well. Those folk by and large DEMAND 4k because most of them have 4K TVs to watch their personal footage. SD looks complete crap on a large 4K panel, as does most HD shot by "professionals". You can immediately see when something has been shot on a small sensor camcorder style camera because it invariably has massive purple fringing on highlights as a result of light scattering on the beyer filter. As soon as you see that it screams low pixel density small sensor typical of old equipment, TV channels are full of programming containing footage like that. But "professionals" think that is ok, that viewers are stupid and will accept whatever dreck is thrown their way.


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## Machaon (Oct 7, 2015)

So specifications have started leaking out.

Looks as though the 1DX II will be launched within the next six weeks...


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## GMCPhotographics (Oct 7, 2015)

ahsanford said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > We’re also told that this will be the only next generation DSLR in the lineup that will shoot 4K video at launch.
> ...



Actually, there is an issue with European law concerning a tax on video equipment. Canon would have to pay an expensive tariff for each camera sold with full video ability. To get around this, the 30 minute recording length was instituted. So it makes sense for Canon to sell a camera with 4K physical ability but not to have any supporting firmware. I also think it's quite logical for Canon to offer a paid firmware upgrade to release this code to our cameras with full video ability (removing the 30 min max recording time). Canon would only have to pay the tax for the cameras who choose the upgrade and wish to pay for it. I see this possibility as a good thing.


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## suburbia (Oct 7, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> as much as I hate it since I love the Canon UI compared to Nikon and love the Canon lenses, maybe it's time even to just forget Canon and not even bother with the half-way solution of adding Sony to Canon and just go Nikon all the way, if the D820 is the A7R II but with DSLR AF, 6fps FF, 7fps APS-C crop mode, yeah bye Canon.
> 
> They jsut don't care, all they care is to deliver as little as they as slowly as they can and get away with it. Maybe that works for them, but it sure don't work for me. I can't shoot video or take shots with a short term stock report (and eventually, at some point, it's gotta eventually hurt them long term, even if it may still be some time out). But their whole attitude is nothing like the old Canon I used to know.
> 
> I have serious doubts the 5D4 will even get better DR and the on chip ADC. Maybe the 5D5. But who wants to wait? Many here in this particular rather rah-rah whatever they do forum maybe, but not me.



God do you always have to be so shrill! It actually gives me a headache! No products have been released yet and I, as I suspect most people too, couldn't give 2 figs with what you decide to spend your money on!


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## Etienne (Oct 7, 2015)

expatinasia said:


> tvexecutive said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a sports photographer. I use the 1DX to shoot sports. If we need or use a video camera to shoot sports it is NOTHING like a 1DX.
> ...



+1 ... "international travel is concerned so weight"

Not just international, any air travel, weight and size of gear is really important! I travel with a Sony PXW-X70 and a Canon 5D3 with lenses, audio gear, tripods, and small lights. All the delicate stuff fits in my Pelican carry-on. I can do good photography as well as two Camera interviews or leave the Sony recording a speaker at a podium while I capture stills or do short interviews outside the main room with the 5D3 while not missing any of the main event. 
The 5D3 with good video brings a lot of flexibility, and I want a 5D4 with great video, video to match or better an equivalent level of video camera


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 7, 2015)

DanThePhotoMan said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > DanThePhotoMan said:
> ...




Being sufficient and being unable to tell a difference are not the same. I have DVD and BluRay copies of many movies. I'm happy watching DVD - it's sufficient. I can certainly tell the difference watching BluRay.



DanThePhotoMan said:


> Go ahead and look at the 4k video that is coming from your A7r2. Ask almost any videographer and guess what? They prefer the look of the 1080p from the A7s. More resolution does not make a better image.



I don't even have compatible memory cards to record 4k on it; I don't shoot video.

Obviously more resolution doesn't necessarily* make a better image (and note I never used the word better). My point is: you can not tell the *difference* between *two things* when only *one thing* is presented. 


*depending on the final medium, it may.


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## scyrene (Oct 7, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> A7RII and adapter ordered. Eagerly awaiting to see D820 specs late next year.



Bye then.


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## scyrene (Oct 7, 2015)

ajay said:


> I have been a Canon shooter for 20 years +. I always felt Canon produced the best lenses and cameras on the market. Since the 5D Mark II, they have been falling behind the pack.
> 
> I once owned the 1DX but preferred the 5D Mark III due to the weight of the camera and lack of silent shooting (at least at multiple frames per second).
> 
> ...



Here we go again... Is their market share eroding? Hint: your personal experience is an anecdote, not data. Where's Neuro when you need him?


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## sanj (Oct 7, 2015)

dilbert said:


> > We’re told that the upcoming Canon EOS-1D X Mark II (if that’s the name) will indeed shoot 4K video, which sounds like good news. However, we’re told not to expect a very video orientated product, as the camera’s primary focus will be on the still photographer. *We’re also told that this will be the only next generation DSLR in the lineup that will shoot 4K video at launch.*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sounds like fair business to me! You must pay more to get more. What is the problem here?


----------



## Etienne (Oct 7, 2015)

3kramd5 said:


> DanThePhotoMan said:
> 
> 
> > 3kramd5 said:
> ...



Why is it that every time a new technology is produced, there's a small army of "experts" asserting that it has no value, and we don't need it?

This has been played out a thousand times. Some blind users can't see the value in being able to crop a 4K image to 1080p, achieving zoom or pan effects in post? Just to mention a couple of glaringly obvious advantages. 

I guess we have to ignore those who have absolutely no imagination and no inclination to improve their game ... again ... with the 4K revolution.


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## ahsanford (Oct 7, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Sometimes I wonder whether the leaking of rumors is part of Canon's marketing strategy, both in terms of preparing people for products but also to see how people will react to certain feature sets.



Agree. Online forums with large Canon userbases are certainly mined for input, though how much weight (say) a Canon Rumors or Digicame or DPReview forum has may be quite limited compared to their retail partners -- B&H, Adorama, DigitalRev, etc. employ very knowledgeable people that likely are advising Canon what their customers want the most. Any solid corporation's marketing department listens to all channels and has a means to aggregate that information, tie specific wants to specific demographics, etc.

But keep in mind that Canon _isn't _on the bleeding edge of consumer tech. They don't have a massive counter-leak department spreading intentionally/specifically false specs to nail the employees or subcontractors who leak things. So I'd imagine that legitimate leaks likely happen from Canon at a much higher rate than from the companies with mic-dropping CEOs at annual meetings.

And of course, it's entirely possible that Canon _doesn't need to author any leaks_ because the rumor mongers could already probably guess with 80% accuracy what we're getting next. Canon may just log in and listen. 

- A


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## romanr74 (Oct 7, 2015)

scyrene said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > A7RII and adapter ordered. Eagerly awaiting to see D820 specs late next year.
> ...



Lol


----------



## romanr74 (Oct 7, 2015)

Etienne said:


> I guess we have to ignore those who have absolutely no imagination and no inclination to improve their game ... again ... with the 4K revolution.



Feel free, but I have the strong feeling that Canon does not ignore the ignorant but significant portion of potential buyers that do not crop a 4k image to 180p, achieving zoom or pan effects in post...


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## tvexecutive (Oct 7, 2015)

expatinasia said:


> tvexecutive said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a sports photographer. I use the 1DX to shoot sports. If we need or use a video camera to shoot sports it is NOTHING like a 1DX.
> ...



I'm more concerned with quality. I'm not shooting video for a major sports production that requires exceptional features "devoted" to video and slow-mo with a Canon 1DX. We're using a camera that starts at $22K before you even put on a lens or an advanced ENG pack to the truck to the dish. The REASON I use this example is the 1DX is at the TOP of it's game "for now" for shooting sports stills. That is WHY I use it. I'm not shooting in field remote fast action sports for the Olympics with a 1DX. THAT WOULD BE A JOKE. The 1DX is "THE" sports still camera. This is INSANE... The 1DX is not for equivalent Hi-END VIDEO for professional SPORTS where you need a DEVOTED PLATFORM for VIDEO optimized for SPORTS.


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## scyrene (Oct 7, 2015)

Etienne said:


> Why is it that every time a new technology is produced, there's a small army of "experts" asserting that it has no value, and we don't need it?
> 
> This has been played out a thousand times. Some blind users can't see the value in being able to crop a 4K image to 1080p, achieving zoom or pan effects in post? Just to mention a couple of glaringly obvious advantages.
> 
> I guess we have to ignore those who have absolutely no imagination and no inclination to improve their game ... again ... with the 4K revolution.



It works both ways. Every time a new technology is introduced, there's a small army of "experts" who say any new product without it is dead on arrival, awful, useless, etc.


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## ahsanford (Oct 7, 2015)

scyrene said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > Why is it that every time a new technology is produced, there's a small army of "experts" asserting that it has no value, and we don't need it?
> ...



I think it all depends on your needs. Some folks absolutely have a technical need or business necessity to have 50 MP stills, 4K video, etc. Others do not. Then we consider all of this through two painful 'discussion adulterators':


Capital purchase anxiety -- folks always triple clutch before pulling the trigger on a bigger ticket item (camera, car, major appliance, TV, etc.) for fear of not having as-future-proofed-as-possible an item as they could.


The internet has a _spectacular_ ability to get people to club other people with their sensibilities/priorities/etc. like they are the only possible viewpoint anyone could have.


So it should be no surprise that a dream spec-list for one person is so wretched to another that they'll go nuclear and leave their current brand.

- A


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## Tugela (Oct 7, 2015)

scyrene said:


> ajay said:
> 
> 
> > I have been a Canon shooter for 20 years +. I always felt Canon produced the best lenses and cameras on the market. Since the 5D Mark II, they have been falling behind the pack.
> ...



Erosion is one grain at a time. Grains that go downstream rarely go back upstream again, so a grain lost is a grain lost for good. Every time someone buys a GH4 or an NX1 or a A7RM2 instead of a Canon, that is a customer gone and a customer that isn't coming back until Canon produces a camera like those. In other words, every year they fail to produce a competitive hybrid is another year they are losing more market share to the competition who is.

These things don't happen overnight, you won't see Canon suddenly swept away, but be absolutely sure, the erosion is there. ILC sales are down, but mirrorless are constant and even increasing in some cases. That means the loss is primarily from DSLRs, and who makes DSLRs? Canon and Nikon, that's who. Those are the companies losing market share and they are losing it because they are not moving with the times. Dinosaurs might be the biggest badest critters around, but eventually they go extinct if they don't evolve with everyone else.


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 7, 2015)

Tugela said:


> ILC sales are down, but mirrorless are constant and even increasing in some cases. That means the loss is primarily from DSLRs...



Only if the people buying mirrorless would otherwise have bought DSLRs. Maybe the DSLR market has reached saturation. Compare a visit to your local zoo today to the same zoo 10 years ago. Vastly more people have SLRs. 

The sale of a mirrorless camera does not necessarily equate to the loss of a sale of a DSLR camera.


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## canonic (Oct 7, 2015)

suburbia said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > as much as I hate it since I love the Canon UI compared to Nikon and love the Canon lenses, maybe it's time even to just forget Canon and not even bother with the half-way solution of adding Sony to Canon and just go Nikon all the way, if the D820 is the A7R II but with DSLR AF, 6fps FF, 7fps APS-C crop mode, yeah bye Canon.
> ...



I am interested. I am glad that so many people are leaving canon. If a customer is gone, it is not only a camera less but a whole system (lens, flashes, etc. ...). Sure, canon is gettind the idea (see interview with Maeda), but canon dont really understand.
*The Canon (5D4 or 6D2 or ...) position dont have to be relative to Canon (1DX or 1DC or ...), but rather to Nikon and Sony!*


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## canonic (Oct 7, 2015)

scyrene said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > A7RII and adapter ordered. Eagerly awaiting to see D820 specs late next year.
> ...



sorry? ... happy? ... or just "S***, another one with more courage than i"?


----------



## scyrene (Oct 7, 2015)

canonic said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > LetTheRightLensIn said:
> ...



Courage? To buy the product that best meets your needs? Everyone should do that - it's not courage, just sense. Actually, I was hoping that those who flood this forum with negativity do what's best for them and leave.


----------



## scyrene (Oct 7, 2015)

Tugela said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > ajay said:
> ...



Well sure. Although are you assuming that every Canon customer who jumps ship will never return? Your gravity analogy suggests it (even ignoring that fact that eventually those grains will be thrust back up as mountains during future orogenies). Why should they not jump back if and when a product takes their fancy?

The figures - that's the point though. ARE the figures saying Canon's customer base is eroding due to people leaving for other brands? I'd love to see the evidence, instead of biased anecdotes. I don't deny it could be happening, but I need evidence to believe in things.


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## scyrene (Oct 7, 2015)

dilbert said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > Etienne said:
> ...



Why would anyone *fear* new features in a consumer tech product? And camera bodies lose value pretty fast regardless, unlike lenses.

Here's an idea: maybe it's not just negative. Maybe some people focus on other things. Incremental improvements to existing features, say.


----------



## canonic (Oct 7, 2015)

scyrene said:


> canonic said:
> 
> 
> > scyrene said:
> ...



Yeah, and the world will be a better place if "i" hope so ... dont hope too much; its better for your healthiness.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Oct 7, 2015)

dilbert said:


> But are there more or less people with them than 1 year ago and how many now have other cameras with long focal lengths?



There are probably fewer because people use phones and compact cameras. Again, that doesn't necessarily equate to the loss of a DSLR sale, as the person may already have a DSLR and want something fundamentally different. "I bought this, but not in place of a DSLR, because it was buy this or buy nothing at all."

Is there a way to quantify people buying mirrorless instead of DSLR? That's market loss, but I don't know if the data is out there in any accessible way.


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## emko (Oct 7, 2015)

scyrene said:


> Tugela said:
> 
> 
> > scyrene said:
> ...



Look even the official White House photographer is now using a A7RII instead of his 5D3, how can you not see the constant flow of pros switching from Canon to Sony?

https://www.flickr.com/photos/whitehouse/21511378622/


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## expatinasia (Oct 7, 2015)

tvexecutive said:


> expatinasia said:
> 
> 
> > tvexecutive said:
> ...



I do not understand at all, what you are getting at.

The 1D X is the best sports camera for stills currently available. You seem to agree on that.

The 1D X II will be an even better sports camera, retaining the title of best sports camera for stills available.

The fact that Mark I shoots HD video does not seemed to have affected your shooting of stills, in just the same way that if the Mark II can shoot 4K video it won't affect your shooting of stills either.

So where is the problem?!

Nobody, and I mean nobody, is suggesting that the 1D X II is going to compete with the C300 or any other dedicated video/broadcast camera. That frankly is crazy.

If your primary concern is video, then get a video camera. If your primary concern is stills then get a stills camera. But don't get upset when the manufacturer tells you that they have built in a few other useful features for you. From memory the C-line can even take stills!

BTW your caps lock seems to be broken. :


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## scyrene (Oct 7, 2015)

emko said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > Tugela said:
> ...



Darling, that's another ANECDOTE.

I just wish people would either present their opinions as such, or give empirical evidence to back up generalisations. "This guy I know" is not the latter, no matter how high up he is.

Maybe people are fleeing Canon. I just wish people making that assertion would use evidence to support it. EMPIRICAL evidence. Is that too much to ask?


----------



## tvexecutive (Oct 7, 2015)

Thanks for making MY point. I want a camera devoted to stills. It's what I do for a living in the sports industry. The 4K video means NOTHING to me. As a matter of fact it's just ANOTHER thing to go wrong.

If I want to fry an egg... I'll use a frying pan not a FF sensor in a 1DX shooting 4K video.

I've got 3 working copies of 1DX's now that took forever to get right with repairs. Sure they SPEW oil, but with 3 copies I'm safe shooting 10,000 frames per day and only once have I had to dig into the 3rd because the first two were so BAD you could not shoot. This happened on a tropical shoot in very warm weather and the viscosity of the oil in the mirror box of the 1DX was just a mess. Bricked the first 1DX.. no focus at all... The second got so dirty and the lag showed me it was about to freeze next.... The third body got me through the day. The issue was the tropical heat and humidity. 

I'd rather Canon FIX my issues, forget the VIDEO and allow me to buy (2) two 1DX MKII's vs. having to lug 3 around with my 2.8 70-200; 2.8 300mm and f/4 200-400. In the studio we use $200,000 lenses. In the field for sports video it's a $22,000 body & also expensive lenses. MY POINT is that a 1DX serves NO purpose at ALL to "me" with video. I will NEVER use it. I wish Canon would devote their efforts for the 1DX to stills and forget the video. Let the people shoot with the C300's it's not a 240 or 260 fps SONY but it's a platform devoted to "good quality" video. FIX the 1DX... Redesign the mirror box.... Improve the color... Add across the frame cross focus points... Add radio control for flashes and strobes with on camera IR for low light focus... Add "multipoint" AUTO AWB .... Add bracketing of light metering modes.... Add more DR... My batteries last ALL day please don't screw with them... Refine the 6 focus cases... Allow me to wirelessly dump to a 2-3TB portable HD... Adopt a Canon Workflow Solutions Team to work on Production through Post centered on the 1DX platform to include adoption of ADOBE tools that correctly work with the Camera Standard with all of Canon's "A" lenses..... I could go on but won't.... So I'll leave my post saying I don't want or need 4K video on MY 1DX. I just wan the BEST sports camera in the WORLD and I'll pay whatever the price is to have (2) working bodies at all times. 



expatinasia said:


> tvexecutive said:
> 
> 
> > expatinasia said:
> ...


----------



## wallstreetoneil (Oct 8, 2015)

As a wedding pro that shoots a variety of Canons (5DSR, 5D3, 7D2) and now also a Sony A7R2, it was a very informative read to here all the oil issues with the 1Dx and bricking the camera. By the sounds of it, you sports guys are all needing a mirrorless camera more than anyone. In terms of 4k, let me be another pro to say, who gives a fvck. Give me more higher ISO, maybe 1 more FPS, and better more shadow recovery. If you shoot video, please buy a proper video camera. I own a C100, and while the 7D2 has great dual pixel autofocus, no in camera ND filters, no XLR sound, seriously - get a proper video camera. I have looked many times at getting a used or now new 1Dx but that camera is not built for weddings - way too loud - for sports, I wouldn't have anything else. Now that I have played with mirrorless, all I can say is that in 5 years, everything is going to be mirrorless - oil in a camera - that is just crazy.


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## brianftpc (Oct 8, 2015)

The a7r 2 sounded great in theory but not so well in practice. If mirrorless cameras want to replace the top of the line from canon and nikon they are going to have to at least be on par with how well they focus. All those other specs and features mean nothing if it cant focus on a professional level. 

The 1Dx is bigger than the a7r2 and 5D line. It has more room to cool itself for 4k. Hell they could even put a removable rubber piece that exposes a vent for when you shoot 4k so it can actually get airflow. Just dont use it in the rain or near sand.

If you are only using your cameras for stills then you are only making half your money with your camera. Even if the 1Dx came with the same 1080P from the previous generation the camera would still be sitting in its same price point so whats the issue with having a swiss army knife with a few extra features. 4k shouldnt effect your camera while you take stills. All i really care about is higher quality and better liw light 1080P with continuous autofocus that actually works for video. As for stills give me better low light and better autofocus. Higher MP would be nice but if i want that i can just get a 5Ds thats gonna be under 3,000 cone black friday.


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## Oneand0 (Oct 8, 2015)

First of all this is a rumor and lets just treat it as if it were a fact. Because that's what I a have seen so far from most of the replies. That's fine, it stirs the pot and makes everyone think, defend, reason, or become angry.

So Canon decides to put out 4K in one of their cameras that most (not all) enthusiasts would never even think about buying. Right!? Who dishes out more money overall to their company when buying their products, pros or enthusiasts? This is simple and I know I might get one or two defenders to challenge it, but come on, there's just more people having a good time making pictures and videos with their camera, than making a living.

How on earth does Canon expect the enthusiasts to stay put when they can't even come up with a half ass answer (so far) to what is driving people over to Sony, or other companies who are making cameras that have technology they want and will use? So that being said "Scyrene" you can keep shoveling all that Canon sand that keeps falling out of the Canon sand box, as people leave to switch over to the other products currently available with options Canon does not have. Someone has to do it!

For those people who replied to this post, and I read their frustration, it's up to you to stay frustrated and wait. Don't buy something because you don't have it, buy it because you need it. At the end of the day it's just a tool, and if you are currently working hard at what you love, you're probably putting out nice work that you enjoy and others enjoy. If Canon is not making something you need for your creativity, go out and buy it if you can afford it. 

I enjoy the work my Canon equipment has let me make and have nothing bad to say about their product. I can't even say anything bad about them not listening to the rants about not having certain technology in their cameras, it's their company. Their company that people have invested a lot of their hard earned money in for a hobby, or a profession. It's up to them if they want to keep loosing people. It's up to us personally to realize when it's time to leave.


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## expatinasia (Oct 8, 2015)

tvexecutive said:


> Thanks for making MY point. I want a camera devoted to stills. It's what I do for a living in the sports industry. The 4K video means NOTHING to me. As a matter of fact it's just ANOTHER thing to go wrong.
> 
> If I want to fry an egg... I'll use a frying pan not a FF sensor in a 1DX shooting 4K video.
> 
> ...



With the problems you have, or have had, you may want to get a fourth!

Have the innovations Canon introduced into the 1D X (over the 1D Mark IV) with regards to video hampered your stills work? Of course they haven't. They just made the stills side of it even better, just as they will do with the 1D X Mark II.

I live and work in South East Asia, some of the hottest and most tropical climates on earth are found here, and I have never had a problem with the 1D X. Only once did I see the heat icon inside the viewfinder and that was when I was shooting video outdoors in 50+ degree heat. I have never seen it shooting stills in such heat. I think we can forgive Canon for that.

My cameras have never "spewed" oil, as you seem to love repeating happens to yours. No matter what the climate or temperature, they work flawlessly. I give up before they do.

I just do not see why you are getting so worked up about them adding a feature, which many may well find useful. The main focus of the 1D X will remain stills, so don't worry.


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## Peer (Oct 8, 2015)

rs said:


> The 1D X replacement is rumoured to remain firmly a stills camera above anything else, and no-one who is planning on buying the ultimate fast stills camera would consider a video camera instead.



If Canon were smart, they'd bump the frame-rate to 24p and advertise it as a 6K burst video camera. 

-- peer


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## romanr74 (Oct 8, 2015)

dilbert said:


> romanr74 said:
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> > Etienne said:
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Hear that Etienne, people don't crop 4K to 1080p, they down-sample and get increased IQ as a result!?


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## romanr74 (Oct 8, 2015)

*Re: Canon EOS*



dilbert said:


> scyrene said:
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Makes perfect sense: I'll no longer walk through my flat in the dark when my dslr features 4k. I'll be full of fear it's going to attack me from behind and chew me up... shiver...


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## M_S (Oct 8, 2015)

scyrene said:


> canonic said:
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This is just another form of saying "shut up and go". Really the best way to answer that? Just because he made a point in a forum....where the whole function is to discuss things or making points? I don't think so. Reading between the lines: he just expressed that he is not satisfied with the way canon products are beeing released so he is looking elsewhere. Thats a totally valid point. A cool and valid question would have been: "Why are you leaving?" But I guess it is easier to say "shut up and go".....


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## romanr74 (Oct 8, 2015)

M_S said:


> scyrene said:
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> > canonic said:
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Yeah, maybe. But some of the comment just completely and immedately discredit Canon (or others) and I am not sure this is always fair and factual. Yes, the D800 spec list was more impressive than the 5DIII speclist. But for me the 5DIII is a fantastic work-horse. Yes, I would sometimes like more FPS or better shadow recovery, but then when I look at picutres some other people post done with a 5DIII (or a D8xx) I realise the most limiting factor is probably the individual holding the camera, much more than the camera or the camera manufacturer. I cannot help having the feeling that the people bashing most, deal with the frustration about themselfes much more than anything else.


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## scyrene (Oct 8, 2015)

M_S said:


> scyrene said:
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Maybe you've not been around here long enough. Some people have written hundreds or even thousands of posts saying how awful/backward/unimaginative/greedy/lacking in innovation/terrible Canon is. We sometimes ask them, why not just switch to another brand that better suits your needs, and stop moaning? It seems that has happened here, and I replied commensurately.


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## jeffa4444 (Oct 8, 2015)

dilbert said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > A7RII and adapter ordered. Eagerly awaiting to see D820 specs late next year.
> ...


Thats as much in the hands on Sony lets not forget Nikon doesnt build sensors.


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## jeffa4444 (Oct 8, 2015)

In terms of sales the Nikon Df has likely been a poor performer likely because of the retro looks / layout and price. But equally because it doesnt have any form of video. Personally Ive never used my former 7D, my 6D and will never use my 5DS for video thats not what I bought them for for others it maybe different. 
To me DSLRs are a compromise too far for video Im used to high end video cameras from the Canon C300 up to the Alexa SXT and the layouts, functionality and ease of use are entirely different. Im not suggesting the Canon 5DMKIV is a natural competitor to these products, its not. However as Ive stated elswhere not all 4K is equal and the term alone is VERY misleading.


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## unfocused (Oct 8, 2015)

scyrene said:


> Maybe you've not been around here long enough. Some people have written hundreds or even thousands of posts saying how awful/backward/unimaginative/greedy/lacking in innovation/terrible Canon is. We sometimes ask them, why not just switch to another brand that better suits your needs, and stop moaning? It seems that has happened here, and I replied commensurately.



I agree. The "Glass-is-half-empty-and-it's-all-Canon's-fault" folks seem to take great joy in seeing everything through the most negative lens possible. Generally, I think the "Glass-is-half-full" crowd (which is by far the majority of people on this forum) are usually polite, if firm, in their rebuttals. But, after awhile it gets a bit tiresome, especially when the same handful of people incessantly repeat the same talking points over and over again on thread after thread.

I fully understand that part of the problem is that cameras generally have improved to the point where there isn't a nickel's worth of difference between one brand or model and another. This leaves an ever-shrinking territory for debate and as usually happens, there is a clear inverse relationship between the insignificance of the topic and the intensity of the debate. 

Today we are left with debates over fractions of an f-stop and other, equally insignificant, matters and people must take a microscope to the differences in order to justify their opinion.


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## gsealy (Oct 8, 2015)

dilbert said:


> romanr74 said:
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> > Etienne said:
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I think he meant that a 4K original video can be reframed to a 2K video, thus achieving HD quality. I would say this is one of the reasons to shoot 4K now. If you are doing documentary work, where it is a one shot opportunity, then the 4K original framing can be off a bit and then adjusted to a better frame in 2K.


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## unfocused (Oct 8, 2015)

gsealy said:


> dilbert said:
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As is frequently the case, our friend Dilbert is relying only on what he reads on the internet and not on any real world experience. In fact, cropping is one of the best uses for 4K.

Gsealy, you are correct: re-framing is one use. 

Another key one would be post-production stabilization. To stabilize in post Premiere must crop the image to remove the shaky, inconsistent edges and reframe the sequence. Starting with a 4K image would preserve the quality. 

I'm not sure what romanr74's exact point was supposed to be, but certainly taking a 4K frame and creating a move that simulates panning or a slider shot by cropping to HD would also be useful.


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## East Wind Photography (Oct 9, 2015)

I think 4K would be a nice addition as long as I could also fail back to full HD (very likely). I shoot mostly sports and wildlife, carry two cameras so I dont have to switch lenses as often and serves as a backup. I am also a CPS member and have had Canon repair lenses, cameras, flashes both in warranty and out and in the RARE occasions where something just goes, Canon has repaired ALWAYS within 3 days. So the Canon bashing is unfounded...especially when you have Sony's that lock up, overheat, brick after shooting in 4K.

All of them have issues. Lets face it when it comes to cameras the grass is never greener on the other side of the fence...the best solution is the right tool for your trade and a good company to stand behind it's products. 

For 4K I would like the option. I shoot very little video and when I do it's a special request. I dont need a pro level video camera. If I did I would buy a Pro Video rig. The extent that I've gone has been to use a seperate audio recorder, 4 channels, and used the internal audio just to sync the audio back into the footage. I like the idea of basic 4K in the 1DXII as it will also keep the price down a bit.


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 9, 2015)

jeffa4444 said:


> In terms of sales the Nikon Df has likely been a poor performer likely because of the retro looks / layout and price. But equally because it doesnt have any form of video.



How are you quantifying that bit?


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 9, 2015)

romanr74 said:


> when I look at picutres some other people post done with a 5DIII (or a D8xx) I realise the most limiting factor is probably the individual holding the camera, much more than the camera or the camera manufacturer.



I think it's overwhelmingly what's in front of the camera, not who's behind it or what's inside it 

Even many meticulous photographers often can't be bothered to go when the light is best. They just shoot when they happen to be somewhere and hope for some miracle of technology to replace long, low light. It doesn't work that way.


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## ktatty (Oct 9, 2015)

I just want to be in the hunt with nikon/sony sensors- i shoot video with my iPhone.


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## romanr74 (Oct 9, 2015)

dilbert said:


> gsealy said:
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> > dilbert said:
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The knowledge and smartness of some people out there is just plain infinite, respect!


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## unfocused (Oct 9, 2015)

dilbert said:


> gsealy said:
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I'll remember your sage advice the next time I'm shooting a Star Wars sequel with a DSLR.

Seriously, Dilbert your response is a total non-sequitur. Did you fail reading comprehension? No one was talking about Hollywood film production. Gsealy was talking about the not uncommon need to do some reframing or cropping in post when shooting documentary footage on the fly. If you actually had any real life experience you would know that it's not always possible to have perfect framing when shooting run and gun footage. Having a little headroom for cropping (reframing), post-production stabilization, pan shots in post production, zooming in post production, etc., is a very helpful thing.


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## Nitroman (Oct 9, 2015)

Lets hope it has moe than 18mp this time - as the last one was pathetic for a 1Ds 3 replacement, pro spec, top of the range dslr !


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## ahsanford (Oct 9, 2015)

Nitroman said:


> Lets hope it has moe than 18mp this time - as the last one was pathetic for a 1Ds 3 replacement, pro spec, top of the range dslr !



Where have you been, sir? I've been alleging that the 1Ds3 camp has wanted a high MP 1D body for ages and all I get are cricket noises. 

Why can't there be a low FPS 1D body with that 5DS sensor in it? Some dude will pay $7k for that -- for the added toughness/sealing, for the 1D goodies like better metering, spot meter at any AF point, etc.

- A


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 9, 2015)

dilbert said:


> unfocused said:
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As usual, dilbert is totally correct concerning the way things work in dilbertland...a place that seems to diverge ever further from reality as time passes.


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## jeffa4444 (Oct 10, 2015)

dilbert said:


> gsealy said:
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> > dilbert said:
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I've been in the movie camera rental business for 35 years in the film days people shot open gate and re-framed in post regularly whether movies, commercials or TV. The closest to open gate is the full-frame Arri Alexa and guess what productions, editors etc. Reframe from open gate. You've less Lee way with 16x9 but it's still done particularly the more resolution you have so I'm afraid Dilbert even in Hollywood your totally wrong.


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## sanj (Oct 10, 2015)

I have been a mainstream DP in features, commercials etc. Although I understand the benefit of reframing possibilities in post, I must say that this option is left only for shots which for some reason did not get framed properly while shooting and retake is not possible. 

Generally speaking we frame perfectly whenever can and leave as little as possible for post. Dilbert has a very valid point. 

All are shooting 4k to master HD video but they know that if need to there is a possibility of reframing. 
But this reframing thing is over rated - when zoomed in the picture does look a little 'off'. I noticed this many times when I grade on a large screen.


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## sanj (Oct 10, 2015)

unfocused said:


> gsealy said:
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> > dilbert said:
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In my experience this is all theoretical. As soon as we start zooming in various flaws of the shot (focus, noise) start showing up and when edited together with un-cropped footage it feels wrong. We techs notice it immediately and know the reason, the producers and general audiences feel it subconsciously. If you do not agree then try it and watch on a large area. Yes, a 'bit' here and there is fine.


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## sanj (Oct 11, 2015)

expatinasia said:


> tvexecutive said:
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> > expatinasia said:
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You tell him Expentesia. And yes, the caps lock needs fixing.


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 23, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Leica's latest entry into the camera market, the "SL", is capable of shooting 4k video (although more expensive.) The Sony A7RII also shoots 4K video and many would expect it to be close to the price of the 5DIV.
> 
> If the 5DIV doesn't do 4K at launch then Canon is going to get laughed at.
> 
> ...



Isn't this thread about the 1D?

Regardless, I don't think Canon or Nikon measure themselves based on humor. What matters is: will a 5D4 without 4k sell? And I think the answer is: if it's a good camera, yes.


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## privatebydesign (Oct 23, 2015)

I am in the target market for the 1DX MkII, I don't care if it has 4k or not and it will not be a determining factor in my purchase decision, though I expect it will have it. 

I doubt the 5D MkIV will have native 4k at launch and I expect the 1DC is the only DSLR C line camera we will ever see.


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## ahsanford (Oct 23, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> I am in the target market for the 1DX MkII, I don't care if it has 4k or not and it will not be a determining factor in my purchase decision, though I expect it will have it.
> 
> I doubt the 5D MkIV will have native 4k at launch and I expect the 1DC is the only DSLR C line camera we will ever see.



4K being a must vs. not being a must for an SLR goes on the same list as:


To UV filter vs. to not UV filter a lens
Wanting IS vs. wanting a faster lens without IS
Cropping in-camera vs. cropping in post
Pushing a shot 5 stops being useful for sensor reviews vs. a 5 stop push is utter nonsense
Gun control, abortion, the designated hitter in baseball, instant replay in soccer, etc.
_
Just walk away from all of the above, people._ Opinions will never change on these topics.

- A


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