# Configuring your 5D Mark III AF for fast action



## cervantes (Feb 6, 2014)

Hi,

a week ago I posted some of my pictures to the birds in flight thread and some people asked me how to configure the 5D3 AF to get these results. Since this is a complex topic I wasn't able to simply respond but I took the time to create an article at dpreview.com. If you own a 5D3 or 1Dx you maybe wanna take a look here:

http://www.dpreview.com/articles/9174241280/configuring-your-5d-mark-iii-af-for-fast-action

If you own a different camera there will maybe also be some useful tips for you. I would be be delighted if you took a look and maybe even left a comment here or over at dpreview.

Have a nice day!

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EDIT:
Dpreview did some weird thing to its article section but my original link seems still to be working. However I have recently launched my new website www.focrates.com and you can find an updated version of this article there under: http://www.focrates.com/articles/configuring_your_5d_mark_3_af_for_fast_action/configuring_your_5d_mark_3_af_for_fast_action.html

Hope to see you on my site!
Best Wishes!


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## Maximilian (Feb 6, 2014)

cervantes said:


> I would be be delighted if you took a look and maybe even left a comment here or over at dpreview.


Hi cervantes! 
First of all thank you very much for your effort and compliments for the really nice pictures.
I couldn't find the time to read concentrated through your article, but the link is already stored 
and if I find something to add or comment I will do so right here.

Thanks again.


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## Northstar (Feb 6, 2014)

Cervantes....well written article, very informative, thanks!


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## candyman (Feb 6, 2014)

Benjamin,


I very appreciate that you took the time to write this article. It is very helpful. Thank you!


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## TrabimanUK (Feb 6, 2014)

Cervantes, you're a total hero! Thanks so much for doing this


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## tomscott (Feb 6, 2014)

Brilliant Article thanks for taking the time.


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## DominoDude (Feb 6, 2014)

I don't shoot 5D, but I will most certainly take a very close look to see if there is anything I can make use of on my 7D as I shoot with it. (I bet there are.)

Many thanks for creating such a good article!


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## Rienzphotoz (Feb 6, 2014)

cervantes said:


> Hi,
> 
> a week ago I posted some of my pictures to the birds in flight thread and some people asked me how to configure the 5D3 AF to get these results. Since this is a complex topic I wasn't able to simply respond but I took the time to create an article at dpreview.com. If you own a 5D3 or 1Dx you maybe wanna take a look here:
> 
> ...


Man that is AWESOME! ... excellent and very useful info. Thanks for sharing. Is it possible for you to post it here instead of going through the link? I think a lot members in CR will benefit from it. Once again, a great job of taking the trouble to put it all together. 8)


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## cervantes (Feb 6, 2014)

Wow, thank you all for the positive response!

@DominoDude: I'm sure that there is some useful info for 7D users also. I would personally be interested if the 7D also supports my 2 zone back button / shutter button AF method. Let me please know when you find out!

@Rienzphotoz: I wrote the article over at dpreview because CR is kind of a pain when it comes to incorporating pictures with captions, a hierarchy for headlines etc. I think a link is the best solution.


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## East Wind Photography (Feb 6, 2014)

Great article, especially the undocumented features. I need to try this but theoretically if you enable orientation linked af point you should also be able to set independent af-on settings for portrait or landscape mode...that is have two selectable zone af points in portrait mode and zone af and 61pt in landscape mode.

Another recommendation is to leave af case mode 1-5 in their default state and use the last case mode 6 for your customized bif settings. 

And you can further customize your use modes by recording your ideal BIF fast action settings to custom mode 3 at the end of the mode dial. This will let you switch to this mode quickly without looking and will also save all of your customized settings....one may actually want to use different af and af-on settings for shooting a wedding or portraits or even bif with a different lens.

Pretty much the configurability has endless combinations and even more headspinning combos on the 1dx. Its important to use the settings that work for you and then save them to a custom mode or you may spend a lot of time reconfiguring every time you change shooting environments.


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## cervantes (Feb 6, 2014)

East Wind Photography said:


> Great article, especially the undocumented features. I need to try this but theoretically if you enable orientation linked af point you should also be able to set independent af-on settings for portrait or landscape mode...that is have two selectable zone af points in portrait mode and zone af and 61pt in landscape mode.



I tried and used orientation linked AF point but the thing is that sometimes you change AF mode setting (e.g. from Zone AF to 61pt AF) in landscape and these changes are then not in effect when you switch to portrait which becomes kind of frustrating and very complicated - so I stopped using it.



East Wind Photography said:


> And you can further customize your use modes by recording your ideal BIF fast action settings to custom mode 3 at the end of the mode dial. This will let you switch to this mode quickly without looking and will also save all of your customized settings....one may actually want to use different af and af-on settings for shooting a wedding or portraits or even bif with a different lens.



Yes, that's exactly what I do. C1 is my action mode. You also said to leave AF case 1-5 in their default state and use 6 for BIF settings - a good idea but not even necessary because when you save your settings to C1 *and then* overwrite AF case 2 _while inside C1 mode_, case 2 will only be overwritten in C1 mode and not in Av, Tv, M etc!

Thanks for your input!


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## westr70 (Feb 6, 2014)

Nicely done and greatly appreciated. A lot of food for thought and some insight into the interrelated features of the camera and lens.


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## tron (Feb 6, 2014)

Nice article. Thank you for letting us know.


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## climber (Feb 6, 2014)

@Cervantes: Did you ever try to shoot birds or any kind of sport with AF Expansion mode including 4 or 8 additional surrounding points? I never know which mode is better - Zone or AF Expansion. Can you tell why AF Expension mode would not be appropriate for birds or sports?

Otherwise, very good and informative article!


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## East Wind Photography (Feb 6, 2014)

The single most beneficial aspect of Zone AF is that it will focus on the closest part of the subject. Even in 61pt you have to get AF using the center point first. If that happens to be a tail on the far side then AF will track that point and not the head. There are tradoffs going either way.

Expansion will af on whatever the center is pointed at and the surrounding points will be used to assist AF if the center loses the subject. 

The main diff is that Zone will always try to focus on the closest thing in the zones range.



climber said:


> @Cervantes: Did you ever try to shoot birds or any kind of sport with AF Expansion mode including 4 or 8 additional surrounding points? I never know which mode is better - Zone or AF Expansion. Can you tell why AF Expension mode would not be appropriate for birds or sports?
> 
> Otherwise, very good and informative article!


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## climber (Feb 6, 2014)

Thus, if one is tracking a bird with AF Point Expansion in AI Servo mode, this would be quite similar to Zone AF. And try to have the main AF point near the eye, let's say. Or not?


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## mwh1964 (Feb 7, 2014)

Adjusted my camera accordingly on a custom function. Think it will come in handy in many situations. Will probably adjust settings to fit my shooting along the way. Thanks again


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## cervantes (Feb 7, 2014)

climber said:


> @Cervantes: Did you ever try to shoot birds or any kind of sport with AF Expansion mode including 4 or 8 additional surrounding points? I never know which mode is better - Zone or AF Expansion. Can you tell why AF Expension mode would not be appropriate for birds or sports?
> 
> Otherwise, very good and informative article!



No, I never use AF Expansion mode for the following reasons:

AF expansion is basically single point AF where the camera uses the surrounding points only if the center point can't achieve AF (this is basically what East Wind Photography said).
AF expansion covers an area that is too small for my taste - In fact I would love it if I could select an AF mode that uses all 20 points on the left / right side of the frame. Or even better if I could define my own zones via a custom function!
When you move the expanded AF point the movement happens point by point (ten clicks from the leftmost AF point to the rightmost AF point) - thus very slowly. Zone immediately switches to the next zone (two clicks from the leftmost Zone to the rightmost Zone).
There is an option in the AF menu where you can turn all the modes off that you don't need. For my action setting C1 I turned off everything except Zone AF, 61pt AF and single point AF (which can't be turned off unfortunately - otherwise I would). It is much faster to select what you need when you don't have to scroll through everything.



climber said:


> Thus, if one is tracking a bird with AF Point Expansion in AI Servo mode, this would be quite similar to Zone AF. And try to have the main AF point near the eye, let's say. Or not?



Probably true. But keeping in mind all the disadvantages above - why don't you simply use Zone AF which will get the job done for sure?

Thanks for the input by the way!


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## climber (Feb 7, 2014)

cervantes said:


> climber said:
> 
> 
> > @Cervantes: Did you ever try to shoot birds or any kind of sport with AF Expansion mode including 4 or 8 additional surrounding points? I never know which mode is better - Zone or AF Expansion. Can you tell why AF Expension mode would not be appropriate for birds or sports?
> ...



Thanks for your explanation. Now I understand.


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## justaCanonuser (Feb 12, 2014)

Cervantes, your really great article on dpreview and the discussion here convinced me that canonrumors is not only a forum for stealthy Canon bashers but still can be a good source for Canon users.

I'd just like to add a little warning for those few readers who still use a vintage EF 500mm F/4.5 like me: do NOT try to set "Lens drive when AF impossible: OFF". First, your 5D3 won't let you do that with this lens attached. But if you switched your camera off and then on again, strangely the camera accepts this setting but the lens' AF/MF drive is completely dead. Fortunately if this happens the 5D3 accepts resetting "Lens drive when AF impossible: ON". I think the reason for this strange behavior is the vintage full drive-by-wire focusing system of this lens.

Any other settings described in your article work perfectly, Cervantes, I found about the same settings to be most useful e.g. for birding.


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## FallsGuy (Feb 12, 2014)

Great Article. Thank you. I read it last week on Thursday and set CF1 up with the multiple button zone af control. On Friday, I happened to be at a good place during a good time. I captured a sequence that included this shot thanks to your recommendations. I just received my 5D III through CLP last Tuesday.


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## cervantes (Feb 12, 2014)

FallsGuy said:


> Great Article. Thank you. I read it last week on Thursday and set CF1 up with the multiple button zone af control. On Friday, I happened to be at a good place during a good time. I captured a sequence that included this shot thanks to your recommendations. I just received my 5D III through CLP last Tuesday.



Wow - somebody telling me that he was able to get a shot because of my recommendations is probably the biggest compliment I ever got! Thank you!

Perfectly focused image by the way - but the very 'colorful' wing shows me that you didn't get the exposure quite right. Maybe I should write another article titled 'How to correctly expose your action shots'.


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## Rienzphotoz (Feb 12, 2014)

FallsGuy said:


> Great Article. Thank you. I read it last week on Thursday and set CF1 up with the multiple button zone af control. On Friday, I happened to be at a good place during a good time. I captured a sequence that included this shot thanks to your recommendations. I just received my 5D III through CLP last Tuesday.


That's a superbly timed shot ... AWESOME work FallsGuy ... but your online ID is not awesome, it sounds like "false guy" ;D


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## FallsGuy (Feb 12, 2014)

Thank you for your kind comments and recommendations. I did need to ETTR on the shot. Anyway, the 5D III AF is remarkable and I could not be happier with the purchase. This image was taken from the same sequence. 
I will consider changing my online ID. You have a good point.


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## KMD (Feb 12, 2014)

cervantes said:


> Wow - somebody telling me that he was able to get a shot because of my recommendations is probably the biggest compliment I ever got! Thank you!
> 
> Perfectly focused image by the way - but the very 'colorful' wing shows me that you didn't get the exposure quite right. Maybe I should write another article titled 'How to correctly expose your action shots'.



I don't understand what you're telling him here, about how the 'colorful' wing shows you that he didn't get the exposure quite right.

Yes, I would love to hear what you have to say about getting the exposure right.

Thanks.


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## justaCanonuser (Feb 13, 2014)

cervantes said:


> Perfectly focused image by the way - but the very 'colorful' wing shows me that you didn't get the exposure quite right. Maybe I should write another article titled 'How to correctly expose your action shots'.



This reminds me of one of the few weaknesses of my 5D3: spot and partial metering work much less reliable as on my 7D. This is an issue if one - like me - prefers M mode + Auto ISO, because then one can't compensate exposure with the thumbwheel. So, in critical situations I have to switch to a selected ISO number to be able to get e.g. a bird in the sky correctly exposed, but then I lose the wonderful flexibility of Auto ISO, which is in particular great when shooting wildlife in quickly changing light conditions. If someone has a good tip for me, I'd appreciate sharing it .

Manual exposure compensation + Auto ISO would be really a great new feature. This is one of my few wishes for a future firmware update (should be fixable with software).


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## cervantes (Feb 13, 2014)

FallsGuy said:


> Thank you for your kind comments and recommendations. I did need to ETTR on the shot. Anyway, the 5D III AF is remarkable and I could not be happier with the purchase. This image was taken from the same sequence.
> I will consider changing my online ID. You have a good point.



I like this shot even better than the first one. Interesting situation and perfectly exposed.



KMD said:


> I don't understand what you're telling him here, about how the 'colorful' wing shows you that he didn't get the exposure quite right.
> 
> Yes, I would love to hear what you have to say about getting the exposure right.
> 
> Thanks.



What I meant was that if you look at the amount of color noise on the underside of the wing in FallsGuys first image it's clear that it was quite strongly lightened in post. As we know shadow noise performance of the 5D3 is not as good as we'd like it to be. ETTR is usually the way to go - but not easy when shooting action due to the fact that it is not possible to set exposure compensation in M mode.



justaCanonuser said:


> This reminds me of one of the few weaknesses of my 5D3: spot and partial metering work much less reliable as on my 7D. This is an issue if one - like me - prefers M mode + Auto ISO, because then one can't compensate exposure with the thumbwheel. So, in critical situations I have to switch to a selected ISO number to be able to get e.g. a bird in the sky correctly exposed, but then I lose the wonderful flexibility of Auto ISO, which is in particular great when shooting wildlife in quickly changing light conditions. If someone has a good tip for me, I'd appreciate sharing it .
> 
> Manual exposure compensation + Auto ISO would be really a great new feature. This is one of my few wishes for a future firmware update (should be fixable with software).



Your post sums up the problem quite nicely. A firmware update for the 1Dx was recently released which enables it to use exposure compensation in M mode with auto ISO. I really hope that they will release a similar update for the 5D3!!!
Until then there are those (sub-optimal) ways to set exposure in action situations:

Use M with manual ISO to force overexposure and try to adapt to changing conditions manually - just like you described.
Use Tv with a fast shutter speed and exposure compensation which will force the camera to shoot wide open (if your lens' wide open performance is up to it of course).


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## climber (Feb 13, 2014)

But there is an option to set ISO to auto in M mode. Did you mean you couldn't set ISO to one fix value (with fixed shutter time and f-stop) and then to "over exposed" for let say 1EV?


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## cervantes (Feb 13, 2014)

climber said:


> But there is an option to set ISO to auto in M mode. Did you mean you couldn't set ISO to one fix value (with fixed shutter time and f-stop) and then to "over exposed" for let say 1EV?



No, what I meant was that when you use auto ISO in M mode you can't set exposure compensation. Since we usually want to overexpose (ETTR) and then darken the image in post processing for better shadow noise performance, it would be nice if we could tell the camera to always use 2/3 or 1 stop higher ISO than it wants to but all within auto ISO mode.
If you set ISO to a fixed value you can deliberately choose a value that will produce a slightly overexposed shot but when conditions change - and they sometimes change just by pointing your camera in a slightly different direction - you always have to manually adapt. If you forget doing so you'll probably end up with a completely over- or underexposed shot.

There is no obvious reason that the camera doesn't allow exposure compensation in M mode with auto ISO. The 1Dx can do it since a couple of days and I hope Canon will add this very important feature also to the 5D3.


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## FallsGuy (Feb 13, 2014)

I totally agree. It would be a wonderful firmware fix. 
The two pictures btw, were shot from the same sequence.
The second shot was actually taken before the fist shot (you can tell from the pic numbers). It was a semi-overcast day with constantly changing conditions. Overall, the camera did a good job. it nailed focus on both and exposure was very good on one and good on half of the other one.


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## miah (Feb 13, 2014)

*cervantes*, you are The Man. I've been searching for a succinct explanation of the 5D3's celebrated AF system with regards to BIF ever since I purchased the body a little over a year ago. Even the Canon tutorials on youtube are far less valuable than your advice. Thank you very, very much. I'm sure this took a fair amount of your time and those of us here on the forum appreciate it.

Your specific advice for AF settings was excellent, but I'd also like to hear your take on some other settings. As I work my way into shooting BIF, alone and without benefit of workshops or books, I've concluded that keeping the shutter speed high enough and aperture wide enough can only be accomplished in *Manual* mode. *Av* invariably gives me an unacceptably slow shutter speed (motion blur) while *Tv* often fails to select an appropriate aperture. That means *Auto ISO* must jump in there to make sure my defined shutter speed and desired aperture results in a proper exposure. 

As previously mentioned by yourself and others, we need Canon to give us a firmware update that allows *Exposure Compensation* when shooting in *M* mode and *Auto ISO*, especially with birds due to the overwhelming brightness of the sky. But given this handicap, would you still advise shooting *M* and using *Auto ISO*? And if so, what ISO limits do you like? If not, how else do you approach the speed/aperture/exposure/noise conundrum when it comes to shooting feathered rockets?

ONE MORE QUESTION
I have my C3 parked with the following settings for BIF (in addition to making changes to my *AF* and *AF-ON* per your excellent instructions), please review and offer suggestions as this is the fast-dial place from which I start: Manual mode, 1/1000, f/5.6, Auto ISO, AWB, AI Servo, Evaluative metering, High-Speed shutter, 1000X 32GB CF only (SD card removed to improve buffer dump), RAW

Note that I'm typically outfitted with a 5D3 body and a 400 f/5.6 L prime lens or sometimes my 70-300 L zoom, with or without a Kenko 1.4X teleconverter, on and off tripod. I'm saving for a 600mm, but alas, that may be a long wait...

Thanks again for offering your advice and for the helpful members who've chimed in with their 2 cents.


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## justaCanonuser (Feb 13, 2014)

cervantes said:


> justaCanonuser said:
> 
> 
> > This reminds me of one of the few weaknesses of my 5D3: spot and partial metering work much less reliable as on my 7D. This is an issue if one - like me - prefers M mode + Auto ISO, because then one can't compensate exposure with the thumbwheel. So, in critical situations I have to switch to a selected ISO number to be able to get e.g. a bird in the sky correctly exposed, but then I lose the wonderful flexibility of Auto ISO, which is in particular great when shooting wildlife in quickly changing light conditions. If someone has a good tip for me, I'd appreciate sharing it .
> ...



Cervantes, I didn't know that this exactly was included in a recent 1-DX firmware update, so we 5D3 users can really hope that Canon does the same service to us. Would be great!

I use both options you listed - depending on the situation. When light is changing fast (and unpredictable) I prefer Tv, otherwise M with fixed ISO to compensate exposure. My EF 500/4.5 gets wide open a little bit soft depending on the object's distance (still on a decent sharpness level for such old glass), so I often prefer to close it to f=5.0...

Look much forward to your next posts, Cervantes, you do a really great job for us forum readers! I wish you many more such brilliant shots you've shown here as examples.


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## cervantes (Feb 14, 2014)

miah said:


> *cervantes*, you are The Man. I've been searching for a succinct explanation of the 5D3's celebrated AF system with regards to BIF ever since I purchased the body a little over a year ago. Even the Canon tutorials on youtube are far less valuable than your advice. Thank you very, very much. I'm sure this took a fair amount of your time and those of us here on the forum appreciate it.



Hi miah, thank you very much for your very kind words! I'm so glad that I was able to help some people out - my biggest fear while writing my aricle was that nobody would be interested in what I had to say.



miah said:


> Your specific advice for AF settings was excellent, but I'd also like to hear your take on some other settings. As I work my way into shooting BIF, alone and without benefit of workshops or books...



Congratulations then. In my experience, books and workshops usually focus on beginners since the market of people that are really serious about wildlife photography is so small. I am also 'on my own' and I like to make my own experiences and develop my own style. Practice, find new ways of acheiving your goals and be your own critical judge about your technique and your results and you won't be needing outside help.



miah said:


> ..., I've concluded that keeping the shutter speed high enough and aperture wide enough can only be accomplished in *Manual* mode. *Av* invariably gives me an unacceptably slow shutter speed (motion blur) while *Tv* often fails to select an appropriate aperture. That means *Auto ISO* must jump in there to make sure my defined shutter speed and desired aperture results in a proper exposure.



I do not agree completely. While M will be the method of choice most of the time there are situations where Tv is better suited to the task. Take a look at the image I attached to this post. The picture was taken with these settings: 500mm, f4, 1/6400, ISO320

In this situation I was dealing with a backlit subject surrounded by a quite bright background due to the reflected sunlight of the water surface. The camera will try to set the exposure to achieve a brightness that corresponds an 18% grey value - to counteract it is desireable to compensate 2/3 to 1 stop to the right.

If you are shooting in M mode with auto ISO you simply have to accept the exposure chosen by the camera and hope that the seagull will not turn out too dark and will not show too much noise when lightened in post.

If you're trying to use M mode with manual ISO you have to change ISO value continuously since the brightness of the reflection is very high when you point the lens into the direction of the sun but rapidly decreases when you point just a few degrees away from it. This of course is not feasible since you can't adapt ISO value while following and focusing you subject in the frame.

The best possible solution in this situation in my opinion would be to use Tv with auto ISO with a very short shutter speed and dial in +1 exposure compensation. The camera will rightfully always open up the aperture before raising ISO so it is going to shoot wide open which is what I'd choose as aperture setting anyways. (If truth be told my 5D3/500LII combo tends to use f4.5 while still in the lower ISO regions - I don't really know why but due to the slightly thicker DOF which makes focusing easier I usually don't mind.) This is of course only desirable when you like your lens' wide open performance - with your 400 f5.6L you should be perfectly fine I guess.

Choosing M or Tv for action photography is always depending on the situation. As a rule of thumb I'd say:

If there is a big brightness difference between the subject and the background or the scene is particularly bright Tv is preferable since exposure compensation is more important than using an exact aperture value.
Otherwise M is preferable since you can directly choose the amount of motion blur and DOF.



miah said:


> As previously mentioned by yourself and others, we need Canon to give us a firmware update that allows *Exposure Compensation* when shooting in *M* mode and *Auto ISO*, especially with birds due to the overwhelming brightness of the sky. But given this handicap, would you still advise shooting *M* and using *Auto ISO*? And if so, what ISO limits do you like? If not, how else do you approach the speed/aperture/exposure/noise conundrum when it comes to shooting feathered rockets?



Yes this possibility would make action shooting a lot easier and all my aforementioned exposure techniques would be quite obsolete.
Regarding ISO limits I'm really strict. I get a bad feeling when I have to go above ISO1000 and usually avoid it. The reason for this is that my intention is always to create the best possible IQ - I'm not shooting for scientific purposes - I'm not trying to find out whether bird xyz is still breeding in the area of abc and desperately need a 'usable' shot to prove it. Either I can acheive a great quality shot or I get no shot. I prefer having one good image above 100 mediocre images anytime.

This however is only my attitude and should not mean that you shouldn't go above ISO1000. If you're not planning to print big everything up to ISO6400 is pretty good I suppose - it really depends on the IQ _you_ would like to acheive.



miah said:


> ONE MORE QUESTION
> I have my C3 parked with the following settings for BIF (in addition to making changes to my *AF* and *AF-ON* per your excellent instructions), please review and offer suggestions as this is the fast-dial place from which I start: Manual mode, 1/1000, f/5.6, Auto ISO, AWB, AI Servo, Evaluative metering, High-Speed shutter, 1000X 32GB CF only (SD card removed to improve buffer dump), RAW



I have found 1/1600 to be the longest desirable shutter speed for stopping action when birding. Normally I use 1/2000 or faster - whatever the light level allows. Otherwise I use the same settings you stated. 



miah said:


> Note that I'm typically outfitted with a 5D3 body and a 400 f/5.6 L prime lens or sometimes my 70-300 L zoom, with or without a Kenko 1.4X teleconverter, on and off tripod. I'm saving for a 600mm, but alas, that may be a long wait...
> 
> Thanks again for offering your advice and for the helpful members who've chimed in with their 2 cents.



The 600 would definately be a total game changer for you and clearly the best choice for static subjects - for BIF however I like to believe the 500 is better because it is lighter and suitable for handheld use. Whatever super telephoto lens you prefer if photography is your passion I'd say go for it - the results will be worth it.


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## cervantes (Feb 14, 2014)

justaCanonuser said:


> Cervantes, I didn't know that this exactly was included in a recent 1-DX firmware update, so we 5D3 users can really hope that Canon does the same service to us. Would be great!
> 
> I use both options you listed - depending on the situation. When light is changing fast (and unpredictable) I prefer Tv, otherwise M with fixed ISO to compensate exposure. My EF 500/4.5 gets wide open a little bit soft depending on the object's distance (still on a decent sharpness level for such old glass), so I often prefer to close it to f=5.0...
> 
> Look much forward to your next posts, Cervantes, you do a really great job for us forum readers! I wish you many more such brilliant shots you've shown here as examples.



I have unfortunately never had the opportunity to try the EF 500/4.5 but I'm pretty sure that it is a great lens. It's particularly nice to see that such 'old' glass is still working nicely with modern cameras (apart from the lens drive when AF impossible problem you mentioned), it makes me confident that I'll be using my 500LII for many years to come.
I'd like to see some of your images if you can provide a link. Thank you for your input!


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## apersson850 (Feb 14, 2014)

As stated above, the 1DX can since firmware 2.0 do exposure compensation in M mode with auto ISO.
It can also set the longest allowed exposure time in Av or P mode with auto ISO anywhere from 1 s to 1/8000 s.

When using a selected AF point and a registered AF point, my preference is to assign one to AF-ON and the other to the * button, so I can remove AF from the trigger button completely. But I much more often shoot action on the ground, not in the air, so I have much more problems with obstructions fooling the AF system to focus on irrelevant things than you bird photographers run into, as long as your birds are in the sky. It's more like when they are flying around the bushes.
If you have one point to the left and one to the right, it makes good sense to use the AF-ON button for the left point and the * button for the right one.
The 7D supports this configuration too.

In many cases Tv works very well for action. Basically, you have two scenarios:
[list type=decimal]
[*]You want to freeze the action. This requires such a short exposure time that the aperture will usually become the largest available on the lens, and that's often what you select in M mode anyway.
[*]You want to pan the action. This requires such a long exposure time that you frequently have to stop down anyway, but it doesn't really matter, since the whole point is that the background will be blurred by motion rather than lack of depth of field, and then the aperture actually used is less important.
[/list]

Don't forget to take a look at what your camera offers when it comes to modifying AF setups on the fly, by just holding a specific button. The 7D can do some of this. The 1DX allows extensive modifications to the AF setup, either linked to a focus button like AF-ON, or by holding another button simultaneously.


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## climber (Feb 14, 2014)

I found quite usefull when switching between left and right AF Zone with AF-ON and shutter button also to have an option of using center zone. It's the same approach as cervantes described, I only add function in custom controls menu that pressing multi-contoller switches between right and center Zone (point). Thus, while pressing AF-ON button the left Zone is used, while pressing shutter butten the right or center Zone is used. Switching between those two is achieved with single press on multi-controller button. This approach works with using Zone AF, AF point expansion or single AF point.


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## miah (Feb 14, 2014)

*apersson850* thanks for your input. On the *Tv* subject, I'll throw this point into our discussion. While I certainly agree that shutter speed is more important than aperture for BIF, *Tv* may ask for a wider aperture than your lens can deliver, resulting in inadequate exposure. Let's say you set *Tv* to 1/2000 and you're sure from previous experience that this is adequately fast to stop the subject. *Tv* asks the camera for its widest aperture, but f/5.6 just isn't good enough. You preview the resulting shots and they're all horribly underexposed because at that speed and that aperture the available light was just too low. *Auto ISO* gives the camera an out. It automatically pumps up the ISO (within your predetermined limits) if the first two factors are inadequate to deliver sufficient light.

Like *cervantes* said, at least *Tv* allows us to use Exposure Compensation, so sometimes it's a must, though we can continue asking Canon to provide this feature in future firmware. But I would argue that even when using *Tv* mode over *M* mode, at least in my limited experience, *Auto ISO* is the only automatic feature standing between me and a typically underexposed shot. Why underexposed? Because like *cervantes* I prefer a low ISO and typically set it too low for rapidly changing conditions when I do so manually.

Now, something else came to mind as I read over your advice for using the * button for right-zone focus instead of *cervantes* shutter button, and then *climber* chimed in with a way to quickly jump to the center zone. And perhaps this question is best answered by *cervantes*: *apersson850's* solution makes more sense to me--and I like climber's addition--because won't actuating the shutter to actually take a picture (after choosing to focus on the left or center zones using the AF-ON or multi-controller, respectively) ALWAYS jump focus back to the right zone? After all, the only way to trip the shutter is to squeeze past the half-way point on the shutter button, the same half-way point that asks the AF to use the right zone. Am I missing something here? If not, *apersson850's* idea to use the * button for the right zone and *climber's* suggestion to use the multi-controller for the center zone would allow us to use the shutter button for the one thing it's best at: snapping the photo.

I look forward to your comments!


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## KMD (Feb 14, 2014)

cervantes said:


> What I meant was that if you look at the amount of color noise on the underside of the wing in FallsGuys first image it's clear that it was quite strongly lightened in post. As we know shadow noise performance of the 5D3 is not as good as we'd like it to be. ETTR is usually the way to go - but not easy when shooting action due to the fact that it is not possible to set exposure compensation in M mode.



Thanks for the reply, That's what I thought you meant.

For things like BIF I just shoot in manual mode with no auto ISO, so I don't have to worry about the background behind the bird. I setup one custom mode like that for full sunlight, and another custom mode for if a cloud passes over when a bird shows.


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## eml58 (Feb 14, 2014)

Possibly the most informative article I've had the pleasure to read on CR, very much appreciated.

I can see how your set up suggestions will/should help well in my Wildlife Photography, again, Thank You Cervantes.


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## climber (Feb 14, 2014)

My settings are all the same as one that Cervantes described in his article below "The easy ones". I add only this:

Custom Controls (C.Fn2isp./Operation) --> Multi-controller --> AF point direct selection
And then by pressing "info" button I choose --> Switch to center AF point

Now, by pressing AF-ON button the camera is focusing on the left side (where HP-home point is set). You shoot with full press on shutter button.

If you released AF-ON button, the focus (or Zone) point move either to the center or right position. Depends where it was before pressing on AF-ON button. Now, you can switch between center and right Zone (or point) just with one click on multi-controller by thumb. In both, center and right Zone you are focusing and then shoot with shutter button.

If want to go back to left Zone and start focusing there, just keep pressing AF-ON button, no matter where you were - in center or right Zone.

No big deal


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## miah (Feb 14, 2014)

OK, *climber*, thanks. I think I have it set up right, now. I didn't realize that as you press and then continue to hold the AF-ON button down it's focusing overrides the ability of the shutter button to initiate focus; the shutter button only initiates metering and the shutter. Cool!


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## Northstar (Feb 15, 2014)

wow....lot's of good info here!!


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## tapanit (Feb 15, 2014)

cervantes said:


> I'm sure that there is some useful info for 7D users also. I would personally be interested if the 7D also supports my 2 zone back button / shutter button AF method. Let me please know when you find out!


Yes, the same method works with 7D as well. The other trick, switching between zone and all-points focusing does not, however, as far as I can tell.


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## justaCanonuser (Feb 15, 2014)

cervantes said:


> I have unfortunately never had the opportunity to try the EF 500/4.5 but I'm pretty sure that it is a great lens. It's particularly nice to see that such 'old' glass is still working nicely with modern cameras (apart from the lens drive when AF impossible problem you mentioned), it makes me confident that I'll be using my 500LII for many years to come.
> I'd like to see some of your images if you can provide a link. Thank you for your input!



Currently I do not show much on the web (I should do more, my job eats lots of time). But here is a little selection of images I shot with my vintage EF 500/4.5 (made in 1995). Hope you enjoy it. Fortunately I am quite used to non-IS lenses so I am able to shoot it frequently hand-held. Such vintage glass works quite nicely with modern DSLRs, I enjoy in particular using it with my 5D3 (only 2x TC doesn't allow AF).


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## justaCanonuser (Feb 15, 2014)

Cervantes: here a few more BIFs for you I shot with my old EF 500/4.5. Atlantic puffins are hard to catch, they are small, appear quite suddenly and dart with about 80 km/h. I am often really impressed how well my 5D3 manages to focus this lens - even its 1st generation USM drive isn't as fast as modern USM drives.


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## Northstar (Feb 15, 2014)

justaCanonuser said:


> cervantes said:
> 
> 
> > I have unfortunately never had the opportunity to try the EF 500/4.5 but I'm pretty sure that it is a great lens. It's particularly nice to see that such 'old' glass is still working nicely with modern cameras (apart from the lens drive when AF impossible problem you mentioned), it makes me confident that I'll be using my 500LII for many years to come.
> ...



wow...great shots justacanonuser! especially like #2 in your first post. keep'm coming


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## justaCanonuser (Feb 15, 2014)

Northstar said:


> wow...great shots justacanonuser! especially like #2 in your first post. keep'm coming



Thx, Northstar


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## cervantes (Feb 17, 2014)

apersson850 said:


> When using a selected AF point and a registered AF point, my preference is to assign one to AF-ON and the other to the * button, so I can remove AF from the trigger button completely.



I wasn't aware that this was possible. *Maybe this should be called the 'dual back button AF' technique from now on!* 8)
Tried it on the weekend but returned to focusing by shutter button again since I'm used to that, but I'm sure this is going to be useful for some people, especially those who usually only use back button AF!

Thanks for your input!


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## cervantes (Feb 17, 2014)

eml58 said:


> Possibly the most informative article I've had the pleasure to read on CR, very much appreciated.
> 
> I can see how your set up suggestions will/should help well in my Wildlife Photography, again, Thank You Cervantes.



Thank you very much for your kind words, I'm glad I could help.


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## cervantes (Feb 17, 2014)

justaCanonuser said:


> Currently I do not show much on the web (I should do more, my job eats lots of time). But here is a little selection of images I shot with my vintage EF 500/4.5 (made in 1995). Hope you enjoy it. Fortunately I am quite used to non-IS lenses so I am able to shoot it frequently hand-held. Such vintage glass works quite nicely with modern DSLRs, I enjoy in particular using it with my 5D3 (only 2x TC doesn't allow AF).





justaCanonuser said:


> Cervantes: here a few more BIFs for you I shot with my old EF 500/4.5. Atlantic puffins are hard to catch, they are small, appear quite suddenly and dart with about 80 km/h. I am often really impressed how well my 5D3 manages to focus this lens - even its 1st generation USM drive isn't as fast as modern USM drives.



The 500 4.5 seems to be every bit as spectacular as I imagined it to be. The images have the same look as from my 500LII - and I't is even a bit lighter than mine.
Fantastic shots by the way! Where did you shoot the puffins? Puffins are on my to-do list but I don't know where to find any as close to central europe as possible.


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## justaCanonuser (Feb 17, 2014)

cervantes said:


> The 500 4.5 seems to be every bit as spectacular as I imagined it to be. The images have the same look as from my 500LII - and I't is even a bit lighter than mine.
> Fantastic shots by the way! Where did you shoot the puffins? Puffins are on my to-do list but I don't know where to find any as close to central europe as possible.


Canon made impressively good tele lenses already decades ago. Btw there is one lens with about the same specs on the market, the Sigma 500/4.5 (http://www.sigmaphoto.com/product/500mm-f45-ex-dg-apo-hsm). My wife has bought one for her Nikon gear after she read two of those rare supertele lab reviews in two German photozines which showed that the current Nikkor 500/4 VR optically underperformes this Sigma lens (and Canon's 500/4 Mark I) in resolution wide open. She wanted best possible IQ for Nikon available in the 500mm prime league, so she decided to forget about the comfort of image stabilization and save a lot of money with the optically superior Sigma. We shoot a lot together, so it is interesting to see how her and my lens perform side by side. The Sigma's modern HSM drive is a bit faster, it is sharper in the close-up range plus offers 4 m closest distance (the old Canon: 5 m). Besides those differences both lenses have very similar IQ, sharp with a nice bokeh (in most situations).

Pretty sure that you will enjoy your EF 500/4 II for many years, this is a dream lens according to what I've seen and read on the web. And if you once really would decide to sell it, another good news is that the prices of used Canon superteles are extremely stable so you won't have to face much losses. I've got my 500/4.5 some years ago for 2.8 k€, and just recently I've seen a rare copy offered for about the same fixed price on e-bay.

Re puffins I try to send you a direct message.


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## JorritJ (Feb 17, 2014)

Many thanks to the author of the article, I have definitely learned some new tricks with my 5Dm3. Completely coincidentally I started practising with bird shots a few days ago (with my zoom lenses though), as pretty much by accident I captured a couple of really nice BIF shots last year, and thought I might be time to train that as a skill.

As others in this thread, I am also thoroughly annoyed by the Spot AF metering of the 5Dm3. It just doesn't really work all that well, especially compared to other cameras. A dark bird against an overcast sky will always result in a dark bird with a grey sky (instead of a properly exposed bird against a bright sky), regardless of any setting I can find. I've noticed the problem dozens of times when city shooting as well. For comparison, both the older 50D and the newer 70D do a much better job selecting the right exposure in similar circumstances. You just can't trust the Spot AF metering on the 5Dm3. If anyone has a working solution or process for this that doesn't involve having the manually adjust settings repeatedly through the shooting session, I'd be happy to hear it.

As for auto ISO, this is quite likely my biggest gripe with the 5Dm3. It is fantastic to be able to limit the ISO to 100-800, but the fastest shutter speed limit configurable is 1/250. With a tele attached for normal shooting I'd already prefer a shutter of 1/500 at ISO 200 vs 1/250 at 100. For action shots, 1/1000 or 1/1600 is needed. You can emulate that a little by raising the minimum ISO to 400 (if the light circumstances are correct), but that is not always ideal (and 400 is the highest minimum value you can set).

Almost every time I use the 5Dm3, I hit one or both of these issues, and at least the latter is easily fixable with a software update - I guess Canon expects me to buy the 1D X for that basic feature. Luckily neither has caused me to miss the money shot so far, but that's a question of when, not if. Canon being the EA of electronics though, I don't expect either issue to be fixed without buying their newest (also artificially limited) camera model for the price of several small cars.


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## East Wind Photography (Feb 17, 2014)

JorritJ said:


> Many thanks to the author of the article, I have definitely learned some new tricks with my 5Dm3. Completely coincidentally I started practising with bird shots a few days ago (with my zoom lenses though), as pretty much by accident I captured a couple of really nice BIF shots last year, and thought I might be time to train that as a skill.
> 
> As others in this thread, I am also thoroughly annoyed by the Spot AF metering of the 5Dm3. It just doesn't really work all that well, especially compared to other cameras. A dark bird against an overcast sky will always result in a dark bird with a grey sky (instead of a properly exposed bird against a bright sky), regardless of any setting I can find. I've noticed the problem dozens of times when city shooting as well. For comparison, both the older 50D and the newer 70D do a much better job selecting the right exposure in similar circumstances. You just can't trust the Spot AF metering on the 5Dm3. If anyone has a working solution or process for this that doesn't involve having the manually adjust settings repeatedly through the shooting session, I'd be happy to hear it.
> 
> ...




Interesting you have an issue with spot metering. I have issues on the exact opposite end of the spectrum...spot metering often overexposes too much or results in a slower shutter speed...too slow for the BIF shots. Perhaps the issue you are having is due to the object not beig large enough in the fov. Spot is not an exact spot but does tape away from the center. Unless the subject is large enough it will meter on the background. Also note that the 5d3 spot meter does not follow the af point. It is always on the center. The 1dx will follow the af point.

Regarding auto iso... I find this mostly useless for all practical shots except for photos of the family. It could be a viable option on the 1dx for those shooting sports. I prefer to control the iq of the image based on what i am shooting. Fix the iso for the type of shot i am using and use Av mostly. I use the dial on the back to quickly compensate for backlighting or to expose to the right using the histogram. 

I generally dont use spot metering except for portraits or where subjects are at least 50% of the frame.


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## tron (Feb 17, 2014)

Fastest shutter speed limit 1/250 with no exposure compensation for auto iso is simply a joke. So in my 5D3, I use Av with/without exp compensation and I choose ISO in advance.

However, I will give the Tv auto iso trick a test. Not perfect but interesting none the less....


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## JorritJ (Feb 17, 2014)

East Wind Photography said:


> Interesting you have an issue with spot metering. I have issues on the exact opposite end of the spectrum...spot metering often overexposes too much or results in a slower shutter speed...too slow for the BIF shots. Perhaps the issue you are having is due to the object not beig large enough in the fov. Spot is not an exact spot but does tape away from the center. Unless the subject is large enough it will meter on the background. Also note that the 5d3 spot meter does not follow the af point. It is always on the center. The 1dx will follow the af point.



Usually when I have an issue with spot it underexposes, but I've seen it overexpose as well. The point is, in my experience spot metering is plain less reliable on the 5Dm3 than it is on the other cameras I own, regardless of the purpose of the shot (family, birding, city trip, ...)



> Regarding auto iso... I find this mostly useless for all practical shots except for photos of the family. It could be a viable option on the 1dx for those shooting sports. I prefer to control the iq of the image based on what i am shooting. Fix the iso for the type of shot i am using and use Av mostly. I use the dial on the back to quickly compensate for backlighting or to expose to the right using the histogram.



Imagine a camera where you could program an exact range for aperture, shutterspeed, and ISO, with individual and directional priorities, and one of them on 'breakout' incase your selection cannot be satisfied.

So you could set:

First Priority: Aperture: 8.0-11.0, prefer <
Second Priority: Shutterspeed: 1500-2000, prefer >, breakout
Last Priority: ISO: 100-400, prefer <

So it would try to get f/8 1/2000 ISO 100, ideally.

If there is not enough light to satisfy f/8 1/1500 ISO 400, only then would it go for a slower shutterspeed than 1/1500. If there would be too much light (unlikely in this example), it'll go up to f/11 1/2000 ISO 100 before selecting a faster shutterspeed.

Heck, you could configure steps, so if (in this example) a breakout is necessary, if the shutterspeed goes slower than 1/500, then another ISO step up might be warranted. 

This should be fairly easily possible in firmware (for Canon), it's not that far beyond the current AE mode + auto ISO/shutterspeed settings if you get down to the nitty gritty. Or maybe my mind just wondered off ...


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## eyeland (Feb 18, 2014)

Nice thread and thanks alot for the nice article Cervantes!
- as for the Dual backbutton zone technique + thumbcontroller switch, I am mindblown  
+1 to the prayer for EC in M mode, such a badly needed feature...
I wonder if this kind of setting falls within the Magic lantern realm?


EDIT!!: Turns out that EC-AutoISO-M DOES fall within the ML realm to some extend
http://www.magiclantern.fm/forum/index.php?topic=8688.0


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## apersson850 (Feb 22, 2014)

tapanit said:


> Yes, the same method works with 7D as well. The other trick, switching between zone and all-points focusing does not, however, as far as I can tell.


The 7D supports programming the depth of field preview button to switch from one AF setup to another. Thus you can use Zone AF and then immediately go to all points active by just holding that button.
When using a super telephoto, holding a button near the bayonet may not be physically possible, but then you may have an AF stop button on the lens, and that can also be programmed to perform this task.

Regarding the trick:
I tried it on the 1DX, and it works there too. Saving an AF point as a registered point while in all 61 points mode will recall that whole mode, if you set AF-ON or * to focus using the registered point. It works if you save the point in 61 point mode while being in One Shot AF too, even in spite of the fact that there's no actual point specified in that case. But also in One Shot AF will focusing with AF-ON and a registered point bring back 61 point mode, and that's regardless of which of the other AF point selection modes you start from (from spot to zone).

I don't see why auto ISO would be a bad thing? Sure it affects image quality, but shooting action with the wrong shutter speed affects the image much more. You can also combine that with another emergency exit, and set the camera to automatically take actions you'd have to do manually anyway.

Say for example that you are shooting some action on a sunny day. You want 1/1000 s for the motion blur (or lack of) you like and f/5.6 to get a reasonable depth of field at the focal length you are using. Let's also assume that your lens has a maximum aperture of f/2.8, which you consider using, if light is vanishing.
Now to use 1/1000 s and f/5.6 in sunshine requires ISO 100, but you can accept ISO up to 6400, should you need it.

So set the camera to Tv with 1/1000 s, set auto ISO range to 100-6400 and set safety shift to Tv/Av.
The camera will now use 1/1000 s with ISO 100 and vary the aperture as needed, as long as it's bright enough for at least f/2.8. If it gets darker, the camera will as the next action increase ISO up to 6400. If that's not enough either, it will start making the exposure time longer than 1/1000 s.
It's your choice how you want to prioritize higher ISO vs. slower shutter speed.

The first implementation of orientation linked AF points (came on the 7D) does indeed store both the point and the AF point selection mode for each orientation. Thus if you store AF points differently for the different orientation, all with single point AF, that's what you get. But if you then go to single point assisted in horizontal orientation, you'll still have the single point in vertical. As of today, only the 1DX allows you to select a mode where only the AF point location will be orientation dependent, but changing the AF point selection mode in one orientation will immediately copy that to the other two orientations as well.


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## justaCanonuser (Feb 24, 2014)

JorritJ said:


> As for auto ISO, this is quite likely my biggest gripe with the 5Dm3. It is fantastic to be able to limit the ISO to 100-800, but the fastest shutter speed limit configurable is 1/250. With a tele attached for normal shooting I'd already prefer a shutter of 1/500 at ISO 200 vs 1/250 at 100. For action shots, 1/1000 or 1/1600 is needed. You can emulate that a little by raising the minimum ISO to 400 (if the light circumstances are correct), but that is not always ideal (and 400 is the highest minimum value you can set).



I cannot confirm this, I do use ISO limit settings in Auto ISO, too. The only explanation is that your ISO 800 limit didn't allow for more than 1/250 s because it was just too dark or something is wrong with the communication between your camera and your lens. Btw a 5D3 doesn't really require an ISO 800 limit, up to ISO 3200 it produces very good quality. ISO 800 is a critical limit when using a quite noisy 7D.


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## apersson850 (Mar 1, 2014)

You're talking about something else. The reference was to the maximum exposure time setting, where the settable range on all cameras supporting this function is 1 s to 1/250 s, except for the 1DX, where the latter limit is 1/8000 s. The lower ISO setting can be set to pretty much anything on a 1DX, except the very highest value. Isn't it the same on the 5D Mark III, really?


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## climber (Apr 4, 2014)

Hi.

Tomorrow I'll shoot some action and I'd like to ask for some advice. Not BIF, but kayak competition (slalom). I suppose you imagine how does it look like.

I'd like to ask, if you recommend to shoot in single shot or continious mode? if the latter, then in which mode - high burst (6 fps) or low burst (3 fps). BTW, I'm using 5D mkIII.

And what should be an appropriate shutter time to freeze the motion? OK, it depends if subject goes toward me or pass me. I think, I'll shoot them coming toward me. But OK, I can experiment and check what time is necessary to freeze it.

I'm more interested about burst mode. I don't want to have million pictures and half of them soft, because AF wasn't able to refocus between each shot in 6 fps mode.

Thanks


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## tron (Apr 5, 2014)

Keep in mind that a piece of advise from the article didn't work for me. At least at some non real shooting conditions.

More specifically: I have tried my 1.4XIII on my 500mm 4L IS II.

Nothing happened apart from the noise of a failed attempt to start focusing.
Something like a click and a very slight move of the focusing mechanism and then nothing.
Focusing distance was close and withing range (inside my house).

I turned "Lens drive when AF impossible" to ON and IT WORKED!

But to tell the truth I haven't tested the lens without a teleconverter and/or at the outside during day.
So I will repeat the test under more realistic conditions.


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## cervantes (Apr 9, 2014)

climber said:


> Hi.
> 
> Tomorrow I'll shoot some action and I'd like to ask for some advice. Not BIF, but kayak competition (slalom). I suppose you imagine how does it look like.
> 
> ...



Hi,

I'm sorry I didn't check canonrumors for a couple of days so I'm too late now for your question but maybe you still want some info for next time.

I'm not quite sure how a kayak competition looks like but it sounds to be quite slow action. Burst will likely work fine but I wouldn't recommend the settings I described in my article because they are for very fast moving / erratic subjects.

The way I always do action photography is setting my drive mode to high burst (6fps) but then I always shoot single frames by briefly pressing the shutter. If a situation arises where the distance between me and the subject doesn't change much but something interesting is happening I always have the option to make shots in quick succession.

Shutter speed is quite easy to determine: Start at 1/1000 and look how it turns out. Use the fastest possible speed that lets you shoot at ISO 100-800 (the lower the better of course). To freeze the water droplets something shorter than 1/2000 would be desirable.


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## cervantes (Apr 9, 2014)

tron said:


> Keep in mind that a piece of advise from the article didn't work for me. At least at some non real shooting conditions.
> 
> More specifically: I have tried my 1.4XIII on my 500mm 4L IS II.
> 
> ...



Are you sure you understand what "Lens drive when AF impossible" means? If the subject was vastly out of focus the AF is supposed to not do anything so that it doesn't throw off focus even further. You should at least be able to easily recognize the subject in the frame before you start attempting to focus (this is more or less also the cameras criterion for starting to focus - when it can immediately determine in which direction and how much it has to adjust focus). Also when you tested inside in dim light with a converter I'm not surprised that it did not work.

Yes, please repeat the test under sufficent light and be sure to pay attention to my remark above - I'm sure it will work just fine.


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## climber (Apr 9, 2014)

Cervantes, thank you for your reply. Here you can see three of my shots that day - http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=20239.0 At the bottom.

It's not so slow movemnet, actually is quite fast. I shot this with 6 fps (of course not like a machine gun, maybe only 3-4 shots)

The setings were: f/2.8, 1/2500 s and ISO 160-250


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## cervantes (Apr 10, 2014)

climber said:


> Cervantes, thank you for your reply. Here you can see three of my shots that day - http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=20239.0 At the bottom.
> 
> It's not so slow movemnet, actually is quite fast. I shot this with 6 fps (of course not like a machine gun, maybe only 3-4 shots)
> 
> The setings were: f/2.8, 1/2500 s and ISO 160-250



Congrats, they turned out great!



> I shot this with 6 fps (of course not like a machine gun, maybe only 3-4 shots)



That's what I would do in this situation. 1/2500 was perfect to freeze the motion of the water.


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## Sandrac (Jan 26, 2016)

Great read..Could these settings be used for high school basketball? I'm using a 5d mark lll with a 135mm f2 with no luck.
Any help would be appreciated
Sandra


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## cervantes (Feb 2, 2016)

Sandrac said:


> Great read..Could these settings be used for high school basketball? I'm using a 5d mark lll with a 135mm f2 with no luck.
> Any help would be appreciated
> Sandra



Yes, but be sure to set the "Tracking sensitivity" value to -2.

Greetings!


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## tron (Feb 4, 2016)

The suggestion about the way AF-ON gives us the capability to switch quickly to 61 point AF is FANTASTIC.

By the way I have checked it not only on my 5D3 but on my 7D2 as well. In fact it can be even more parameterized on 7D2.

It memorizes AF start position (HP, AI Servo case, AF operation and AF area selection). So by pressing AF-ON it can even switch you from AF ONE SHOT say to AI SERVO Case 2. 

I wish I had tested that specific part one week ago.... Never mind. Next time.


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## cervantes (Feb 10, 2016)

tron said:


> The suggestion about the way AF-ON gives us the capability to switch quickly to 61 point AF is FANTASTIC.
> 
> By the way I have checked it not only on my 5D3 but on my 7D2 as well. In fact it can be even more parameterized on 7D2.
> 
> ...



Quickly switching from SERVO to ONE SHOT is also possible on the 5D3. All you have to do is change the setting of the depth-of-field preview button. There is one option that will set the AF mode to ONE SHOT as long as you keep the button pressed. It's my standard setting for my action mode.


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## East Wind Photography (Feb 11, 2016)

tron said:


> The suggestion about the way AF-ON gives us the capability to switch quickly to 61 point AF is FANTASTIC.
> 
> By the way I have checked it not only on my 5D3 but on my 7D2 as well. In fact it can be even more parameterized on 7D2.
> 
> ...



On the 7d2 you can also program the ae lock button as well for af type. You could set your default to 61 pt, af-on to center af point and ae lock to spot focus. However if you use back button focus exclusively you will only be able to use two modes.


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## cervantes (Feb 11, 2016)

East Wind Photography said:


> On the 7d2 you can also program the ae lock button as well for af type. You could set your default to 61 pt, af-on to center af point and ae lock to spot focus. However if you use back button focus exclusively you will only be able to use two modes.



Yes, the fact that you can program both back buttons independently for focusing on different AF points / areas was already established in this thread.

It doesn't really work for me though, since it overcomplicates things a little...


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## kaihp (Feb 26, 2016)

Yesterday, I attended a Canon Demo day in Copenhagen and a fellow 5D3 photographer pointed out an issue to a Canon rep (and myself):

If you use:
* Back-Button Focus,
* AI Servo mode, 
* Set the 'AI Servo 2nd image priority' to 'Focus', and
* _Release_ the Back-button focus button for shooting,
The shooting speed will drop to ~3fps.

If the AI Servo 2nd image priority is set to 'Equal priority' or 'Shooting speed priority', the camera will "correctly" shoot at the full 6fps.

I put the correctly in quotes, because it is arguable whether this is the drop in fps is the expected/correct behavior or not. From a user perspective, we argued that since you've released the focus button, the camera should just shoot at the highest fps.


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## privatebydesign (Feb 26, 2016)

kaihp said:


> Yesterday, I attended a Canon Demo day in Copenhagen and a fellow 5D3 photographer pointed out an issue to a Canon rep (and myself):
> 
> If you use:
> * Back-Button Focus,
> ...



So what your fellow did was set the camera to shoot when focused (on second shot), refused to focus (by releasing the back button) and then wondered why the camera slowed down! It is doing exactly what it is being told to do, giving priority to focus rather than fps, I am amazed it defaults to 3 fps in this situation.


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## kaihp (Feb 26, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> kaihp said:
> 
> 
> > Yesterday, I attended a Canon Demo day in Copenhagen and a fellow 5D3 photographer pointed out an issue to a Canon rep (and myself):
> ...



I politely disagree. He told it to "don't bother focusing - just shoot". If I set the lens to manual, it will shoot 6fps in that situation. Are you saying it should refuse to release the shutter in MF mode if set to 'Focus priority'?

But regardless of which side of the argument you are, I posted this as a heads up for people.


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## privatebydesign (Feb 26, 2016)

kaihp said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > kaihp said:
> ...



Yes, so the second shutter release will not occur until focus is achieved, meanwhile he doesn't press the focus button, when would you expect the second image to be triggered?


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