# Negative copying, FD Bellows and kit. Need help from those familiar with this gear please.



## Valvebounce (Nov 25, 2020)

Hi Folks.
I am about to start copying a load of my negatives, I have the Canon FD copier setup



but not the roll film stage,





Will the roll film stage help with commercially developed (cut) strips of 4 frames, I have done a couple of tests and found that the strips want to tilt, the support pins are unable to support the end frames. 
Does anyone know, will the roll stage help with that or not?

Thanks in anticipation for any help.

Cheers, Graham.


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## YuengLinger (Nov 28, 2020)

Thank you for reminding me that I really need to digitize some 20 year old film from a time and place far, far away.


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## Valvebounce (Nov 29, 2020)

Hi YuengLinger. 
You are welcome, I still don’t know if the Roll Film Stage will support the negative strips, but I soon will as I ended up buying the one I found!
I was watching it on eBay and the seller made me an offer! Should arrive Wednesday.

Cheers, Graham. 



YuengLinger said:


> Thank you for reminding me that I really need to digitize some 20 year old film from a time and place far, far away.


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## Valvebounce (Dec 1, 2020)

Hi Folks. 
I can now answer my own question. 
Yes the Roll Film Stage does support the short negative strip correctly, however it is still slightly awkward as you have to curl the ends round and then they fight back trying to push the strip through the holder. 
All in all a worthwhile addition if you don’t have one with your copier.

Cheers, Graham. 



Valvebounce said:


> Hi YuengLinger.
> You are welcome, I still don’t know if the Roll Film Stage will support the negative strips, but I soon will as I ended up buying the one I found!
> I was watching it on eBay and the seller made me an offer! Should arrive Wednesday.
> 
> Cheers, Graham.


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## Rocky (Dec 16, 2020)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi Folks.
> I can now answer my own question.
> Yes the Roll Film Stage does support the short negative strip correctly, however it is still slightly awkward as you have to curl the ends round and then they fight back trying to push the strip through the holder.
> All in all a worthwhile addition if you don’t have one with your copier.
> ...


If your goal is to copy and digitize your negetives, you might be better off spend $250 and get an Epson V600 photo scanner. I have one and I highly recommend it. It wil do negetives (up to 6cmX6cm), 35mm slides and photo ( up t0 8 1/2 " X 11 1/2 ")


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## privatebydesign (Dec 16, 2020)

Hi Graham,

I’m sorry I missed this thread as I have the exact setup and could have told you, but glad you found out anyway. I recently picked up a mint in box macro stage for it all too. They sure did make stuff properly back in the FD days!


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## Valvebounce (Dec 19, 2020)

Hi PBD.
No worries, I was already deep in to learning the hard way, first thing I discovered is that a 1D series won’t fit, next I discovered that doing the math for the lens for a crop camera doesn’t work, then that taking 4 or 6 or 9 shots of each slide or negative with a crop camera is reeaaallll time consuming! Solved that with a real cheap (legitimate from a dealer boxed etc) 5DII with only 9000 shutter count in absolute mint condition, I have added another 4000 in a couple of months just shooting slides! 
Then I learned just how hard it is to get the exposure correct on a negative! When the positive is over exposed, you have to turn the flash power up!  Obvious when you work it out, but I spent waaay too long going the wrong way! 
I love this setup, but as I mentioned in another thread, dad took way too many “ISO 100 sunny day 250th @ f5.6 rule of thumb“ (I remember him telling me something but don’t remember the numbers!) type shots! Fortunately he did use a light meter for many / most of them, then he got the AE1 P with onboard metering!
I am having to adjust almost every shot individually in pp.
I was thinking of a macro stage if I find one for a reasonable price, and you are not wrong, what a lovely piece of kit! 

Cheers, Graham.



privatebydesign said:


> Hi Graham,
> 
> I’m sorry I missed this thread as I have the exact setup and could have told you, but glad you found out anyway. I recently picked up a mint in box macro stage for it all too. They sure did make stuff properly back in the FD days!


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## Valvebounce (Dec 19, 2020)

Hi Rocky.
Thanks for the advice, I have had scanners with slide / negative capability in the past. I never got on well with them and to cap it all the drivers would always go out of date rendering the scanner obsolete, this method uses things which I’m going to have other uses for, and will never be made obsolete by software! 

Cheers, Graham. 



Rocky said:


> If your goal is to copy and digitize your negetives, you might be better off spend $250 and get an Epson V600 photo scanner. I have one and I highly recommend it. It wil do negetives (up to 6cmX6cm), 35mm slides and photo ( up t0 8 1/2 " X 11 1/2 ")


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## Rocky (Dec 19, 2020)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi Rocky.
> Thanks for the advice, I have had scanners with slide / negative capability in the past. I never got on well with them and to cap it all the drivers would always go out of date rendering the scanner obsolete, this method uses things which I’m going to have other uses for, and will never be made obsolete by software!
> 
> Cheers, Graham.


You can down load the software from Epson for the V600 ( 10 years old product??) that works perfect with windows 10. That is exactly what I have done. I got my V600 early this year. It have been ding an excellent Job automatically without my intervention. May be you should log onto the website of your scanner and see if there is any update for your scanner. If I remember it right, windows 10 can actually run legacy old software automatically. I have once run a 20 year old software out of my windows 10 system


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## stevelee (Dec 20, 2020)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi Rocky.
> Thanks for the advice, I have had scanners with slide / negative capability in the past. I never got on well with them and to cap it all the drivers would always go out of date rendering the scanner obsolete, this method uses things which I’m going to have other uses for, and will never be made obsolete by software!
> 
> Cheers, Graham.



VueScan works with lots and lots of old scanners and supports many more options than you could ever get with the original software. It is updated frequently for free if you get the pro license. I have an old Minolta Dimage Dual Scan III for 35mm slides and negatives. I've scanned in a lot of slides this year, and did a photo book of pictures from my trip 20 years ago. I have some negatives I want to scan as my next scanning project, but I have mislaid the strip film carrier. It is around here somewhere, because I saw it when I was getting the slide carrier out. I put it somewhere out of my way. 

For grins I have tried using my 100mm macro to shoot slides, using the iPad as a light box. Results weren't bad, but it was more trouble than using the scanner.

The biggest problem with scanning slides I think is that it is too easy to get too much contrast.


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## Rocky (Dec 20, 2020)

stevelee said:


> The biggest problem with scanning slides I think is that it is too easy to get too much contrast.


I do not have excess contrast either with slide, negative or photo with the Epson V600. The real problem of scanning slide and negative is how to keep the original free of dust. The attached picture is from a slide that is over 30 years old.


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## privatebydesign (Dec 20, 2020)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi PBD.
> No worries, I was already deep in to learning the hard way, first thing I discovered is that a 1D series won’t fit, next I discovered that doing the math for the lens for a crop camera doesn’t work, then that taking 4 or 6 or 9 shots of each slide or negative with a crop camera is reeaaallll time consuming! Solved that with a real cheap (legitimate from a dealer boxed etc) 5DII with only 9000 shutter count in absolute mint condition, I have added another 4000 in a couple of months just shooting slides!
> Then I learned just how hard it is to get the exposure correct on a negative! When the positive is over exposed, you have to turn the flash power up!  Obvious when you work it out, but I spent waaay too long going the wrong way!
> I love this setup, but as I mentioned in another thread, dad took way too many “ISO 100 sunny day 250th @ f5.6 rule of thumb“ (I remember him telling me something but don’t remember the numbers!) type shots! Fortunately he did use a light meter for many / most of them, then he got the AE1 P with onboard metering!
> ...


I'm so sorry because I could definitely have saved you some of that learning curve! I knew the 1 series bodies don't fit, and that the added extension of the FD-EOS adapter limits the focus range, those are a couple of the reasons I am waiting for an R5 to do mine and the thousands of family ones I have committed to doing.... But also, as you point out, negative film has close to the DR of the digital sensors so if you get the exposure off slightly you can have issues, obviously no problem when using slide film as the DR is much smaller. I know DR is a touchy subject but I am hoping the R5 will give me a bit more latitude than the zero latitude the 1Ds III gave in testing.

I was really lucky with the Macro Stage, I found a new old stock copy in the box for $50 in an online camera store. I was keen to get one because a lot of the old family slides I have to copy have notations on them and I was keen to get the entire slide with notations which is why I am borderline magnification with the EOS setup and will need to use the RF to get less magnification.





Like you I did try going the scanner route, I had a Pacific Image scanner years ago but the truth was it was so much hassle and the software never played nicely even when I went to third party drivers.

For those working with dust from scans a little known Photoshop filter, dust & scratches, is a scaning game changer. Here it is in the menu and a link to one of my favorite YouTube Photoshop educators on the filter.


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## Valvebounce (Dec 20, 2020)

Hi PBD.
Don’t fret it, you are sharing knowledge voluntarily, I have actually kind of enjoyed the learning curve. I have bracketed a lot of the exposures over 3 or 4 stops to get the best out of them, sometimes picking one shot, others blending a couple or 3 using hdr software.
That stage looks mint, I can’t even see one for sale in the UK at the moment! Not that I’m desperate to spend more money right at this time!
Does the stage have any limitations that spring to mind, would I be just as well sorted to use the tripod to position the rack vertically over a subject, bearing in mind at the moment I’m probably not needing to backlight things (yet)! 
Just a thought, I have a shot of a factory fire close to my parents home, I tried to blend a shot to get the best detail from the flames and shadows, all I got was a blown out mess in hdr. I guess I need to go low dynamic range or something, any thoughts on getting what I’m trying to achieve please?
Thanks for sharing the tip on the dust and scratches filter, but I’m not using lightroom / photoshop, I do have Affinity Photo so will have a look see if that has a similar filter, I found a batch of shots with a hair on, once I noticed it a quick puff of air and it was gone from the diffuser! 

Cheers, Graham.



privatebydesign said:


> I'm so sorry because I could definitely have saved you some of that learning curve! I knew the 1 series bodies don't fit, and that the added extension of the FD-EOS adapter limits the focus range, those are a couple of the reasons I am waiting for an R5 to do mine and the thousands of family ones I have committed to doing.... But also, as you point out, negative film has close to the DR of the digital sensors so if you get the exposure off slightly you can have issues, obviously no problem when using slide film as the DR is much smaller. I know DR is a touchy subject but I am hoping the R5 will give me a bit more latitude than the zero latitude the 1Ds III gave in testing.
> 
> I was really lucky with the Macro Stage, I found a new old stock copy in the box for $50 in an online camera store. I was keen to get one because a lot of the old family slides I have to copy have notations on them and I was keen to get the entire slide with notations which is why I am borderline magnification with the EOS setup and will need to use the RF to get less magnification.
> 
> ...


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## privatebydesign (Dec 21, 2020)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi PBD.
> Don’t fret it, you are sharing knowledge voluntarily, I have actually kind of enjoyed the learning curve. I have bracketed a lot of the exposures over 3 or 4 stops to get the best out of them, sometimes picking one shot, others blending a couple or 3 using hdr software.
> That stage looks mint, I can’t even see one for sale in the UK at the moment! Not that I’m desperate to spend more money right at this time!
> Does the stage have any limitations that spring to mind, would I be just as well sorted to use the tripod to position the rack vertically over a subject, bearing in mind at the moment I’m probably not needing to backlight things (yet)!
> ...


The stage is pretty limited and really is designed for the two dedicated Canon macro lenses, the 20mm and the 35mm. http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/canon/fdresources/fdlenses/fdmacro/2035macro.htm
I used to have the 35mm but sold it a few years ago.

But the stage has a pretty small footprint so it really doesn't work well as a stand in copy stand, and a tripod whilst utilizing the bellows mount rail is the most effective way of achieving the magnification and focus needed for multiple tasks.

As for difficult negatives with detail across the DR that get too close to the cameras DR, I'd try bracketed shots and luminosity masks as I find them far more realistic looking than HDR even though technically they are very similar.

If you wanted to send me a link to two RAW files with the normal and highlight exposures I'll do a blend for you to see what results I could get for you to compare.


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## Valvebounce (Dec 21, 2020)

Hi PBD.
Thank you for the offer, it is very kind of you. I did get a result for the fire that I find acceptable and I’m trying to just move through the masses of shots.
As for the masks, I have tried in ACDsee and Affinity Photo, I just don’t seem to be able to grasp it, I’ve watched the tutorials for both and they both seem comparable, but I always seem to end up in a mess!   It might be the old dog new tricks thing!

Thank you for the info on the macro stage, perhaps I will give that a miss for now, it seems like the tripod positioning is the way to go. If one comes up cheap I might take a punt! 

Cheers, Graham. 



privatebydesign said:


> The stage is pretty limited and really is designed for the two dedicated Canon macro lenses, the 20mm and the 35mm. http://www.mir.com.my/rb/photography/companies/canon/fdresources/fdlenses/fdmacro/2035macro.htm
> I used to have the 35mm but sold it a few years ago.
> 
> But the stage has a pretty small footprint so it really doesn't work well as a stand in copy stand and a tripod whilst utilizing the bellows mount rail is the most effective way of achieving the magnification and focus needed for multiple tasks.
> ...


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## Jack Douglas (Mar 10, 2022)

I'm late to this thread but thought I'd ask here because my problem must have been experienced by all of you.

When the Pacific Image Prime Film XAs went on sale at B&H my weeks of humming and hawing ended. I simply don't have time to rig something up like is discussed here. It seems like it's going to do a nice job but...

I pulled a negative strip out of my binder from the wax divider sheet and slipped it into the scanner and wow, there must be a thousand very little fuzzies. And to make matters worse my room simply will never be all that clean (we have a parrot). What is a good way to clean a negative strip before insertion?

Jack


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## Rocky (Mar 17, 2022)

Jack Douglas said:


> I'm late to this thread but thought I'd ask here because my problem must have been experienced by all of you.
> 
> When the Pacific Image Prime Film XAs went on sale at B&H my weeks of humming and hawing ended. I simply don't have time to rig something up like is discussed here. It seems like it's going to do a nice job but...
> 
> ...


For dust, a good, oversized, new cosmetic brush will do a very good job. That is what I used for my negatives that has been stored in the plastic sleeves. If it is wax, then I got no idea what to do. Wax do tend to stick to something else.


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## dcm (Mar 17, 2022)

Jack Douglas said:


> I'm late to this thread but thought I'd ask here because my problem must have been experienced by all of you.
> 
> When the Pacific Image Prime Film XAs went on sale at B&H my weeks of humming and hawing ended. I simply don't have time to rig something up like is discussed here. It seems like it's going to do a nice job but...
> 
> ...



Do not use canned air since there is usually some form of propellant that will leave a residue. 

I used a rocket blower to get the loose stuff off first. I found that I could not remove everything so I experimented with the infrared scan settings on my scanner in VueScan to find a setting that removed the rest. I was able to process most slides/negatives with the same infrared settings. Some older slides that had been handled a lot required a bit more infrared clean than the pristine negatives that had been in an archival sleeve. 

The XAs seems to have an infrared scan so you might experiment with those settings in the SilverFast software after various degrees of cleaning to see what gets you the best results. From the web site appears SilverFast has an automatic and manual modes. I used VueScan so I'm not familiar with SilverFast. I tried it once and gave up.


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## Jack Douglas (Mar 17, 2022)

Rocky said:


> For dust, a good, oversized, new cosmetic brush will do a very good job. That is what I used for my negatives that has been stored in the plastic sleeves. If it is wax, then I got no idea what to do. Wax do tend to stick to something else.


Thanks, that is bound to help a little. There did seem to be some funny appearance that might relate to wax but as I finally got better acquainted with the scanner and started to use the Infrared mask feature it seems to do an excellent job but only on colour film. Here is a sample from a dusty negative.

I am having a challenge totally removing the colour cast that seems to remain with auto settings

Jack


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## Jack Douglas (Mar 17, 2022)

dcm said:


> Do not use canned air since there is usually some form of propellant that will leave a residue.
> 
> I used a rocket blower to get the loose stuff off first. I found that I could not remove everything so I experimented with the infrared scan settings on my scanner in VueScan to find a setting that removed the rest. I was able to process most slides/negatives with the same infrared settings. Some older slides that had been handled a lot required a bit more infrared clean than the pristine negatives that had been in an archival sleeve.
> 
> The XAs seems to have an infrared scan so you might experiment with those settings in the SilverFast software after various degrees of cleaning to see what gets you the best results. From the web site appears SilverFast has an automatic and manual modes. I used VueScan so I'm not familiar with SilverFast. I tried it once and gave up.


Thanks, since Silverfast came free that's what I'm learning and it was very trying until I was told to update firmware and now I'm getting zeroed in I think. The dust mask really does work - it's cool to see the actual dust in the mask. I had one day where all the negative reviews I had read on the B&H site were floating in my head. None of the printed instructions that came with the unit worked! 

Jack


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## Rocky (Mar 17, 2022)

Photo Shop will do a good job on correct color over cast and skin tone. I have the following experience with the Epson V600, It may or may not apply to your scanner: 1. Color restoration does a very good job. It may still need color correction with Photo Shop. 2. The dust removal function may threat the eyes as dust ( if the eye is relatively small ).
Also do not be over sold by the high dpi of the scanner. even st 4800 dpi, it is already beyond the reolution of the 35mm color negatives.


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