# D850 moons the 5D4 with its tilt-screen



## ahsanford (Jul 26, 2017)

Agree with Nikon on a design/feature decision (IMHO) the 5D4 got wrong -- a tilty/flippy screen.

Two links:

https://petapixel.com/2017/07/26/nikon-d850-photos-leaked-theres-tilt-screen-backlit-buttons/

https://photorumors.com/2017/07/26/first-nikon-d850-pictures-leaked-online/

Pop-up flash RIP as well. That's a nod to Canon's weathersealing position, one would think.

- A


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## Khalai (Jul 26, 2017)

I like that illumination of its buttons. Nice feature. Also big fan of tilting screen instead of fully swivelling ones - feels more secure and rigid. Overall, nice looking camera, hope it delivers and even more hope it brings back Nikon on their feet again...


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## ahsanford (Jul 26, 2017)

Khalai said:


> I like that illumination of its buttons. Nice feature. Also big fan of tilting screen instead of fully swivelling ones - feels more secure and rigid. Overall, nice looking camera, hope it delivers and even more hope it brings back Nikon on their feet again...



100% agree on illuminated buttons. That's how you address unmet needs. Simple and useful.

I'll take _any_ tilty-flippy on my 5D3 at this point, but getting in the weeds of tilt vs. tilt+swivel will yield a lot of different opinions. Vloggers, travel, and social media jockeys will likely hate tilt-only unless it can 180 to the front up top (180 rotation down low will meddle with tripod-thread-based gimbals/sticks/etc), and even then I think they may hate it.... but how many folks vlogging face-forward _with FF rigs + FF lenses?_ That's quite a heft! 

- A


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## arthurbikemad (Jul 26, 2017)

Illuminated buttons yeah ok, floppy screen NO WAY, I'd have not got a Mk4 if it had a flippy screen, keep it for the "other" models.


edit, mind you, does look nice that Nikon


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## Joules (Jul 26, 2017)

arthurbikemad said:


> floppy screen NO WAY, I'd have not got a Mk4 if it had a flippy screen, keep it for the "other" models.


Why though? We've seen that you can get away with ridicoulous screen flexibility and top notch wheater sealing fom the Pentax K-1. So what's worse about having more flexibility while composing and a more pleasant live view experience overall?


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## arthurbikemad (Jul 26, 2017)

Joules said:


> arthurbikemad said:
> 
> 
> > floppy screen NO WAY, I'd have not got a Mk4 if it had a flippy screen, keep it for the "other" models.
> ...



Good question, guess I'm just resisting change, fearing lack of build quality, a chink the the armour of reliablilty? But like I say the Nikon looks robust, and the spec looks awesome, I desire it, but in the past when I swapped systems for a day I just could not deal with the Nikon interface (and I love my Canon lenses), otherwise thumbs up. And yeah, if I had it I'd use it I'm sure, I'm still forgetting to use the touch screen on the 5D4, then when I swap to the 1DX2 I think, WTF is wrong with this touch screen, why Canon why, why give one and not to the other....


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## foo (Jul 26, 2017)

I much prefer the usual Canon articulating screen than the tilt-only ones. I keep thinking that the ones that only tilt one way to some angle and then stop could end up getting ripped off when you catch them on something. Nope, don't have one, so it's only a niggling feeling when I think about a camera with one.
While I find the articulating screen on one of my cameras vaguely useful, my experience has been that I either have it completely closed or folded all the way open. I don't seem to use it any other way for more than a small percentage of what I do, so it was never a problem not having it on my 5D4

As for illuminated buttons, Useful only as long as you can turn them off when necessary.. In certain circumstances the additional light pollution could be annoying. In a similar way, I'd really like an illuminated keyboard on my laptop - but only for certain uses.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 27, 2017)

Khalai said:


> I like that illumination of its buttons. Nice feature. Also big fan of tilting screen instead of fully swivelling ones - feels more secure and rigid. Overall, nice looking camera, hope it delivers and even more hope it brings back Nikon on their feet again...



I liked the Nikon Illuminated Buttons, and I keep trying to tilt the screen on my 5D MK IV. Unless Nikon has made some major changes, live view can be almost useless. I assume auto AFMA, if they improve it, it might be worthwhile. 

I hope its a nice camera, Nikon needs a big hit.


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## Bennymiata (Jul 27, 2017)

I prefer Canon's swing out screen myself.
I have it on my 70D and it works really well, better and more useful than the tilt screen on my M5.
I wish my 5d3 had a flippy screen. I'd upgrade if the 5d4 had one.

As for the lit buttons, I say bring it on, as long as you can turn them off when you want to.

Nikon really needs a camera that will sell in big numbers as their sales have been suffering.
If they can improve their colour science, I might even have a look at the new D850.


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## snoke (Jul 27, 2017)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Khalai said:
> 
> 
> > I like that illumination of its buttons. Nice feature. Also big fan of tilting screen instead of fully swivelling ones - feels more secure and rigid. Overall, nice looking camera, hope it delivers and even more hope it brings back Nikon on their feet again...
> ...



It Nikon camera. Recall soon after launch for something.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 27, 2017)

One other Nikon feature I used was the ability to format flash cards using a combination button push. Now that the 5D IV has a touch screen, its very easy to format cards. I find myself using the touch screen 90% of the time. I have little feeling in my fingers and can't feel the buttons, but I can operate the touch screen. I also like the ergonomics of the 5D IV shutter button, much easier to use than my 5D III.


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## snoke (Jul 28, 2017)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Now that the 5D IV has a touch screen, its very easy to format cards.



What you use My Menu for?


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## rfdesigner (Jul 28, 2017)

foo said:


> As for illuminated buttons, Useful only as long as you can turn them off when necessary.. In certain circumstances the additional light pollution could be annoying. In a similar way, I'd really like an illuminated keyboard on my laptop - but only for certain uses.



it all comes down to being able to set the brighness as low as you ant (i.e. about 1/1000th of full brighness). Laptops and many other screens are horrendous for only have a 10:1 brightness range.. why? I have no idea as you can dim LEDs to any brightness you choose, so it's down to some really poor thinking on the part of developers/manufacturers.


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## LonelyBoy (Jul 28, 2017)

rfdesigner said:


> foo said:
> 
> 
> > As for illuminated buttons, Useful only as long as you can turn them off when necessary.. In certain circumstances the additional light pollution could be annoying. In a similar way, I'd really like an illuminated keyboard on my laptop - but only for certain uses.
> ...



Yeah... there are times I'd like to watch Netflix to go to sleep, and I want the screen damn near dark (not glowing even in near-total blackness), but most screens won't allow control that fine.


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## Sharlin (Jul 28, 2017)

rfdesigner said:


> it all comes down to being able to set the brighness as low as you ant (i.e. about 1/1000th of full brighness). Laptops and many other screens are horrendous for only have a 10:1 brightness range.. why? I have no idea as you can dim LEDs to any brightness you choose, so it's down to some really poor thinking on the part of developers/manufacturers.



Can you? I mean, IIUC many cheaper LCD displays resort to pulsing the backlight at low brightnesses (PWM, pulse width modulation) exactly because fully analog dimming is not feasible even within the narrow range the brightness can typically be adjusted. Both LED and older fluorescent backlights.


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## rfdesigner (Jul 28, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> rfdesigner said:
> 
> 
> > it all comes down to being able to set the brighness as low as you ant (i.e. about 1/1000th of full brighness). Laptops and many other screens are horrendous for only have a 10:1 brightness range.. why? I have no idea as you can dim LEDs to any brightness you choose, so it's down to some really poor thinking on the part of developers/manufacturers.
> ...



LEDs can be dimmed all the way to nothing (OLED screens anyone?)

You could change mode and use a resistive feed for the lowest power settings.

Pulsing can be fairly trivially controlled to a 100ns pulse every 1millisecond.. and no one is ever going to see that.. that's only a 10MHz bandwidth.... DC-DC converters can switch at those sorts of speeds.. I've designed a built some like that.

You could split the LED backlighting to have high and low power devices, then have slightly blotchy look on MUCH lower power, imperfect but preferable to being blinded.

I've seriously concidered pulling the backlight wires on my Laptop and putting in a purely manual.. possibly purely analogue.. supply.

Above all I'd also cull the way laptops change their screen brightness setting when the power lead falls out.. what twonk came up with that genius "let's blind the user" idea.

anyway.. I'd hope the illuminated buttons on the D850 could be dimmed.. it would be a bit of an oversight if they couldn't be.


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## Mancubus (Aug 5, 2017)

I bet this D850 will absolutely destroy the 5D4 in specs. Seems like Nikon is nothing holding back and I wish Canon would do the same on their next camera (but I'm sure they won't).

These are some of the things I'm jealous about (rumors, but very possible):
- sd card slot supports uhs II
- 4k uncropped, and I bet a much better codec than some 90s nonsense
- no AA filter, it's not confirmed but I doubt they will want to make the images soft
- high fps, maybe 9 or 10
- improved low and high ISO, I bet it will blow the 5d4
- 120fps full hd video

I'm also expecting a new record for DR or at least a similar number to the D810.

Canon has other advantages, most related to glass, but imagine how awesome it would be if Canon actually wanted to make a camera to match the competitors.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 5, 2017)

Mancubus said:


> I bet this D850 will absolutely destroy the 5D4 in specs. Seems like Nikon is nothing holding back and I wish Canon would do the same on their next camera (but I'm sure they won't).
> 
> These are some of the things I'm jealous about (rumors, but very possible):
> - sd card slot supports uhs II
> ...



It's funny how people's priorities are so different. Of your points:-
- SD card, hate them and every camera with multiple slots should use the same type of card and the same specs.
- Don't give a hoot about video.
- Agree in that I'd like no AA filter.
- In a high mp body I don't care about fps.
- Of course.
- Still don't give a hoot about video.

What I, personally, would like is a 5DSR II with on chip ADC low ISO noise levels, I don't care about high ISO in a high mp camera, tilt touch screen, illuminated buttons, one CFast slot (a thunderbolt card reader workflow is an eye opener!), true silent shutter, 50MP is fine, built in intervalometer, built in GPS, and built in WiFI. Probably a few other bits but all stills orientated.


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## Jopa (Aug 5, 2017)

privatebydesign said:


> What I, personally, would like is a 5DSR II with on chip ADC low ISO noise levels



Lots of people want this ^
Tilt (but not necessary touch) screen actually would be nice for such a fine camera.
Low power camera's Wifi isn't really usable for transfering 60MB+ files, maybe for remote control only?


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## privatebydesign (Aug 5, 2017)

Jopa said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > What I, personally, would like is a 5DSR II with on chip ADC low ISO noise levels
> ...



Yes my main interest in WiFi is remote control, I've found shooting raw and small jpeg and only sending the jpeg very effective with the CamRanger.


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## pwp (Aug 5, 2017)

snoke said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > Now that the 5D IV has a touch screen, its very easy to format cards.
> ...



The first thing I do with any new body is set up "My Menu". It a fantastic feature, often overlooked. The first item I program at the top of the list is Format. 

-pw


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## foo (Aug 5, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> Can you? I mean, IIUC many cheaper LCD displays resort to pulsing the backlight at low brightnesses (PWM, pulse width modulation) exactly because fully analog dimming is not feasible even within the narrow range the brightness can typically be adjusted. Both LED and older fluorescent backlights.



Cheaper displays are likely still using flourescent backlights. Those typically can't be adjusted to the same degree as LED and require a high voltage inverter anyway.
Using PWM for LEDs is simply an efficiency thing, the LED is simply fully on, or fully off. You're not having to dissipate power elsewhere. Using a PWM controlled buck regulator to get an analogue voltage for the LED still means additional components and a less than 100% efficiency, getting these things to be equally efficient over a wide range isn't necessarily simple or cheap. Direct PWM control of the LEDs is much easier.


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## foo (Aug 5, 2017)

rfdesigner said:


> Pulsing can be fairly trivially controlled to a 100ns pulse every 1millisecond.. and no one is ever going to see that.. that's only a 10MHz bandwidth.... DC-DC converters can switch at those sorts of speeds.. I've designed a built some like that.



There'll be some EMI related concerns that will have them limiting the range. Laptops are always difficult to get through EMI testing.



> anyway.. I'd hope the illuminated buttons on the D850 could be dimmed.. it would be a bit of an oversight if they couldn't be.


I'd hope they're fully adjustable from all the way on to all the way off. At least that caters for everyones personal preferences.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 5, 2017)

pwp said:


> snoke said:
> 
> 
> > Mt Spokane Photography said:
> ...



Agreed!


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## RayValdez360 (Aug 16, 2017)

Jopa said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > What I, personally, would like is a 5DSR II with on chip ADC low ISO noise levels
> ...


 it's what everyone wants.


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## Chuck Alaimo (Aug 17, 2017)

Mancubus said:


> I bet this D850 will absolutely destroy the 5D4 in specs. Seems like Nikon is nothing holding back and I wish Canon would do the same on their next camera (but I'm sure they won't).
> 
> These are some of the things I'm jealous about (rumors, but very possible):
> - sd card slot supports uhs II
> ...




Another person did this so I will too 

- sd card slot supports uhs II (I prefer CF cards so this means little to me --- have fun over paying on those xqd cards too!!!)

- 4k uncropped, and I bet a much better codec than some 90s nonsense (whats video nd why am i using it ever at all????????)

- no AA filter, it's not confirmed but I doubt they will want to make the images soft (sure, this one wouldn't be too bad, but with the MP count on the mk4 it's not really an issue ---that's more a 5ds/R issue)

- high fps, maybe 9 or 10 (I really really really don't need more fps --- 99% of the time I'm on silent mode anyway. If i shot sports more then sure, but, for the low amount of sports I shoot the fps on the mk4 is fine)

- improved low and high ISO, I bet it will blow the 5d4 (I don't buy this one, we're hitting the edge of how far these sensors can go. My guess is the d850 will see improvement but it would be more incremental - not a giant leap.)

- 120fps full hd video (see above - I never use video so this means zero to me)

I'm also expecting a new record for DR or at least a similar number to the D810. (see above, i think the giant leaps forward on DR are done, it's little steps now)

Canon has other advantages, most related to glass, but imagine how awesome it would be if Canon actually wanted to make a camera to match the competitors. 

(I guess it depends on what your looking for, what you shoot and how you shoot. Most of these differences aren't things a client will even consider noticing.)


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