# Patent: More SuperTelephoto Patent Applications Appear



## Canon Rumors Guy (Dec 27, 2017)

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We’ve been told that Canon will announce at least 2 new “big white” lenses in 2018. This is a World Cup year and the event may be used for testing the final versions of the lenses.</p>
<p>The new patents seem to be geared towards further weight reduction of the big white lenses as well as a bunch of ways to reduce abberations.</p>
<p>None of of the following patents mention IS, but looking at the optical formula, you can see grouping of elements that points to IS being included.</p>
<p><strong>Japan Patent Application <a href="https://www.canonnews.com/a-flurry-of-super-telephoto-patent-applications-appear">2017-215495</a></strong></p>
<ul>
<li>400mm f/2.8</li>
<li>300mm f/2.8</li>
<li>500mm f/4.0</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Japan Patent Application <a href="https://www.canonnews.com/a-flurry-of-super-telephoto-patent-applications-appear">2017-215494</a></strong></p>


<ul>
<li>400mm f/2.8</li>
<li>500mm f/4.0</li>
<li>600mm f/4.0</li>
<li>800mm f/5.6</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Japan Patent Application <a href="https://www.canonnews.com/a-flurry-of-super-telephoto-patent-applications-appear">2017-215493</a></strong></p>
<ul>
<li>300mm f/2.8</li>
<li>400mm f/2.8</li>
<li>500mm f/4.0</li>
<li>600mm f/4.0</li>
<li>800mm f/5.6</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Japan Patent Application <a href="https://www.canonnews.com/a-flurry-of-super-telephoto-patent-applications-appear">2017-215492</a></strong></p>
<ul>
<li>300mm f/2.8</li>
<li>400mm f/2.8</li>
<li>500mm f/4.0</li>
<li>600mm f/4.0</li>
<li>800mm f/5.6</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Japan Patent Application <a href="https://www.canonnews.com/a-flurry-of-super-telephoto-patent-applications-appear">2017-215491</a></strong></p>
<ul>
<li>400mm f/2.8</li>
<li>800mm f/5.6</li>
<li>200mm f/2.0</li>
</ul>
<p>We had been told that it was possible Canon would return to the EF 200mm f/1.8L and add IS, however the latter patent seems to show it’ll remain EF 200mm f/2L IS and receive a version 2.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
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## TommyLee (Dec 28, 2017)

200mm f2 mkII
sure.... send it along...
I've been waiting patiently....
how about 5 stop I.S. 
and...25% weight loss....
and a closer min focus

I'm in for those features

sell the car... I'll use my moped...


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## RGF (Dec 28, 2017)

The 600mm focal length is nice and the 600 II is really sharp. It would be nice to see it a KG lighter and perhaps 10cm shorter. but then again that could be DO version (perhaps 1.5 to 2 KG) lighter


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 28, 2017)

I'd like to confirm that these are actually Canon Patents, the Japanese Patent System does not list a owner or author. 

The patents reference the anomalous Dispersion Material to a Nikon Patent, and the Term Vibration Control is used to describe Image Stabilization. Thats why no one can find a reference to IS.

Can anyone point to where it gives the patent author. Canon News provides no evidence thats its a Canon patent.

Update, Keith Cooper showed me how to confirm the patent owner. I try to read many of the patents or skim thru them. With my Engineering Background, I mostly understand the gist of them.


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## RGF (Dec 28, 2017)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I'd like to confirm that these are actually Canon Patents, the Japanese Patent System does not list a owner or author.
> 
> The patents reference the anomalous Dispersion Material to a Nikon Patent, and the Term Vibration Control is used to describe Image Stabilization. Thats why no one can find a reference to IS.
> 
> Can anyone point to where it gives the patent author. Canon News provides no evidence thats its a Canon patent.



The publishing source is Canon News. You are correct that the article does not say the patents were issues to Canon but since the source is Canon news ...


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## KiagiJ (Dec 28, 2017)

TommyLee said:


> 200mm f2 mkII
> sure.... send it along...
> I've been waiting patiently....
> how about 5 stop I.S.
> ...



Its already 5 stop IS. i heard at release they said it was 4 stops but then later updated it to 5 apparently

In any case i can shoot mine quite easily at 1/8th of a second handheld which is 5 stops! 

get it noooooow


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 28, 2017)

RGF said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > I'd like to confirm that these are actually Canon Patents, the Japanese Patent System does not list a owner or author.
> ...



Canon news made the claim that they were Canon patents, but are they? PAJ updated their system last week, they were down for a few days. Now, they don't show the patent author or details like they do for the older patents. Very strange, I don't think Canon would use a material listed in a Nikon Patent, but who knows?

I sent a email to Keith Cooper asking him how to determine who owns the patents.

Update, hanks Keith Cooper and Canon News for showing me how to find the information.BTW, I know its time consuming to search, read, and dig out the pertinent information, so thanks for your effort and have a Happy New Year!!


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## unfocused (Dec 28, 2017)

RGF said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > I'd like to confirm that these are actually Canon Patents, the Japanese Patent System does not list a owner or author.
> ...



Canon news does not appear to be affiliated with Canon. Just because some random person puts Canon in the name of their website doesn’t mean they have any special access to Canon news.


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## dolina (Dec 28, 2017)

Only way to survive a declining market is to out innovate...


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## keithcooper (Dec 28, 2017)

*Yes -US versions posted here on 7th Dec*

I'm pretty certain that some of these are Japanese versions of the US ones I found on the 7th Dec

Look at http://pdfaiw.uspto.gov/.aiw?PageNum=0&docid=20170351058

Note the Foreign Application Priority Data field, where you'll find the original Japanese registration numbers, which if checked correspond to the ones listed at CN. Note how this refers to 'Application Number' as opposed to the 'Unexamined publication number'

See here for CR post

http://www.canonrumors.com/patent-lots-of-big-white-lens-patent-applications-surface/

from

http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/canon-ef-lenses-rumours-and-news/#dec7th


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## TommyLee (Dec 28, 2017)

KiagiJ said:


> TommyLee said:
> 
> 
> > 200mm f2 mkII
> ...



it is perfect for clubs in the dark where you have to stay back...
....
I see Brian at TDP says 4 stops quoted from canon and... says its about right
[ if you saw someone get 5 stops in testing - please tell me where]
for me the latest I.S. will do..

that min focus dist is what will swing it for me
I've rented it ....it is pretty nice..
weight reduction will help make the deal

also lets see what they do with the 135 f2 I.S. that's coming soon...
that one takes a 1.4 TC .....which with a short focus may be better/more flexible...
even having the 85L f1.5 I will likely get this maybe even replace the 85 1.4 L ....
...orig 135 is so small/flex(TC) and light that it is going to be hard to beat it...


I know I shouldn't, but I like to use it with out the GIANT hood 
or use a smaller 3rd party if there is one..

once the hood size is less clumsy it doesnt weigh too much to carry for a bit...

if oil prices spike again ..my Prius will bring a little better price...


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## tron (Dec 28, 2017)

RGF said:


> The 600mm focal length is nice and the 600 II is really sharp. It would be nice to see it a KG lighter and perhaps 10cm shorter. but then again that could be DO version (perhaps 1.5 to 2 KG) lighter


Don't expect it that lighter! The latest 400 4 DO II weighs 2.1Kg and the 600 DO 4 prototype 3.2 Kg
So the difference at best (Keep in mind they have to add electronics, diaphragm, stabilizer system) would be at most 0.7kg.


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## canonnews (Dec 28, 2017)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I'd like to confirm that these are actually Canon Patents, the Japanese Patent System does not list a owner or author.
> 
> The patents reference the anomalous Dispersion Material to a Nikon Patent, and the Term Vibration Control is used to describe Image Stabilization. Thats why no one can find a reference to IS.
> 
> Can anyone point to where it gives the patent author. Canon News provides no evidence thats its a Canon patent.



I have another search engine that filters through the patent applications before they are directly searchable via PAJ. The reason being is I can only search through and up to the end of September in PAJ. This other engine allows me to see patent applications up to Dec 15th. However they are translated on the fly from Japanese.

The patents listed in this post are listed and identified as the applicant being Canon, Inc.

Here's a snippet of one of them.

Also these are translated from Japanese, and also patent language doesn't usually match up with trademarked terms such as IS versus VR.

And no, I have no affiliation with Canon.


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## PRINZMETAL (Dec 28, 2017)

Makes great business sense. Selling into ones base when the base is large, but the market is not growing is a great strategy. Further, Canon's large lens differentiate Canon positively from its competition.

Bp


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## canonnews (Dec 28, 2017)

tron said:


> RGF said:
> 
> 
> > The 600mm focal length is nice and the 600 II is really sharp. It would be nice to see it a KG lighter and perhaps 10cm shorter. but then again that could be DO version (perhaps 1.5 to 2 KG) lighter
> ...



DO doesn't make a lens that much lighter because the aperture defines the weight more than the length. Consider that a DO lens has the same diameter of elements, and usually at least similar quantities, it's simply squished because DO elements allow the lens to be shorter.


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## canonnews (Dec 28, 2017)

*Re: Yes -US versions posted here on 7th Dec*



keithcooper said:


> I'm pretty certain that some of these are Japanese versions of the US ones I found on the 7th Dec



there may be some overlap, but I looked at the element diagrams against yours a little carefully. Also on your US patents, the referring Japan Patent application Number was different. If they are the same, apologies, it certainly wasn't intentional.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 28, 2017)

Thanks Canon News, Keith Cooper also confirmed that they were Canon patents, so the term Vibration Control in the patents is just another confusing translation. Patents do reference patents from other companies, of course.

So all the patents contain a paragraph saying that its possible to use certain lens groups to perform vibration control without changing the optical formula.


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## keithcooper (Dec 28, 2017)

*Re: Yes -US versions posted here on 7th Dec*



canonnews said:


> keithcooper said:
> 
> 
> > I'm pretty certain that some of these are Japanese versions of the US ones I found on the 7th Dec
> ...



It confused me in that the Japanese number referenced in the US patent is the original patent application number, which is different to the "A: Publication of patent application" number.

There are differences, but I believe both are referring to the same general collection of patents (obviously US and Japanese patent offices need different stuff in the patents)


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## canonnews (Dec 28, 2017)

*Re: Yes -US versions posted here on 7th Dec*



keithcooper said:


> canonnews said:
> 
> 
> > keithcooper said:
> ...



there may be overlap, but I do stress, it's unintentional.

I am looking at japan sources for the patents which list applications as of December 21st today, so a week off the publication process, not really the US sources.

I do attempt to verify that I haven't seen the patent anywhere else before posting, however with different sources it can be difficult.

Another good example of confusion is the stacked sensor patent you mention. I had mentioned a similar stacked sensor patent a month ago, however with a later japan application number however published on the same day as yours on the american patent office. the contents seem entirely different even though the gist is the same.

Fun fact: Masashi Kimura is the leading canon patent application writer this year. he has written 56 patent applications. You know the writing that goes into these patents, diagrams,etc can you imaging writing one every 4 days? ugh.


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## tron (Dec 29, 2017)

canonnews said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > RGF said:
> ...


I agree! I do own a 400 DO II and I find it extremelly handholdable even for long walks. And its short length helps me handholding it because I keep my left hand close to body. Similar shooting with the 500mm 4 IS II (even for 1.5hour of intermitent use) caused my left hand fatigue for 2 months afterwards!


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## matheusphoto (Dec 30, 2017)

I have been planning to buy EF200 F2.0 IS.
I talked to the manager of a local camera store and he told me that the lens is discounted by $500 as canon wants to clear stock. He was very careful, he did not mention that there would be a replacement. I asked if I should wait for a new version and he just smiled ...
Please treat this as CR0


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## KiagiJ (Dec 30, 2017)

TommyLee said:


> KiagiJ said:
> 
> 
> > TommyLee said:
> ...



Canon's own manual for the 200mm says 5 stops IS here... http://gdlp01.c-wss.com/gds/0/0300003440/02/ef200f2lisusm-im3-eng.pdf

Like i said they updated it, either physically or just the written material, that review mightve been based on old documentation

Its heavy and hurts after a while with a 1dx2 hehe even if an update takes a pound off itll still be heavy and hurt 1 minute delay later perhaps hehe 

The hood barely adds any weight, its light, not metal. i sometimes dont use it for candids as its intimidating pointing it at people so interefers with their natural emotion, becauase they see a bigass black hole pointed at them, just the lens is less intimidating i think. for portraits, hood all the way


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## KiagiJ (Dec 30, 2017)

ps. i just added an extension tube for closer focus, rarely used anyway


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## Mr Majestyk (Dec 31, 2017)

*Re: Yes -US versions posted here on 7th Dec*



canonnews said:


> Fun fact: Masashi Kimura is the leading canon patent application writer this year. he has written 56 patent applications. You know the writing that goes into these patents, diagrams,etc can you imaging writing one every 4 days? ugh.



Yes and do you actually believe he has time for research and actually writing this many patents a year. He has a large group of people and as senior person will get his name on any patent from the group. Working for Canon the most prolific patent writers I knew managed 3 or 4 a year.


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## Mr Majestyk (Dec 31, 2017)

canonnews said:


> DO doesn't make a lens that much lighter because the aperture defines the weight more than the length. Consider that a DO lens has the same diameter of elements, and usually at least similar quantities, it's simply squished because DO elements allow the lens to be shorter.



The main element is 100mm, but the thing that makes the DO lens special is that it effectively has a much higher refractive index than a normal refractive glass lens. Glass has a RI of ~ 1.5, and this limits how short you can make a lens in large part. A DO lens can have an effective RI even greater than diamond which is ~ 2.5. This allows to come to focus much shorter distance than a normal lens of the same radius of curvature. The rest of the optical formula will also be much different to a standard refractive lens. 

So you are right that a DO can be much shorter but the weight saving will be limited by how much weight the lens barrel weight can be reduced for the most part. 

Interestingly when DO was first shown with the original 400 f/4, Canon claimed a real refractive 400 f/4 would weigh 3kg, so ~ 50% than the DO version. However I believe that was a worst case scenario and if Canon made a 400 f/4L now with current tech, it would be close to the 300 f/2.8L IS II in weight, but of course longer, maybe 2.5-2.6kg.

IMO a 600 f/4 DO in the future could weigh maybe 3kg so maybe 20% lighter than the current lens. Also note that Canon stated the next gen mk III superteleles will be even lighter based on advanced materials for the body, so we may see a 600 f/4L III come in at under 3.5kg, if the DO lens gets the same treatment it might also be a bit lighter, say 2.8kg.

Anyway all fascinating and if they can deliver a 600 f/4 at close to 3kg, I'll sell my 500 in a heartbeat.


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