# Poll: Are 5D3 owners going to buy a 6D2?



## ahsanford (Jan 17, 2017)

I am only looking for _current 5D3 owners that skipped the 5D4_, please.

- A


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## Ryananthony (Jan 17, 2017)

No.

After using a 5D with the joystick, its hard to go back to the mushy pad for selecting AF points. Sounds silly I'm sure. 

I also can't afford the newest body every couple years, and would rather spend my money on more lenses at the moment. Regardless of what some people think, the 5D3 is just as capable now as it was when it was first released.


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## NorbR (Jan 17, 2017)

I went with "Yes. I will get a 6D2 because a tilty-flippy touchscreen is a huge need for me."
Doesn't mean I'm dead set on it yet, I do have other requirements, as I mentioned in the other post.

But in the end, if I decide to get it, it will be in large part for the tilty touchscreen (and I, for one, prefer tilty to fully articulated). I'd love to have this in at least one of my DSLRs.


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## ahsanford (Jan 17, 2017)

I'm in this camp so I'll speak to the question personally now.

I regularly hit the limits of what my old crop camera could do on numerous fronts -- I had effectively outgrown my rig. So in 2012, I got a 5D3 and blew those limitations out of the water. For four years, I've enjoyed using a pro tool to develop my photography skills, and it has been awesome.

My 5D3 is only 'holding me back' in some fairly gear-headed / petty ways:


I _really_ want spot metering at any AF point
I would like wider spread of AF points around the frame
WiFi onboard would be nice
I would not turn away more base ISO DR
I would not turn away more resolution if it didn't hurt my high ISO performance

...and the 5D4 only gets me a few of those things and I don't see them being worth $3500. I have the money but I'll invest in glass this cycle. Perhaps a new 50mm someday. 

- A


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## tarntyke (Jan 17, 2017)

I am very happy with my 5D3/5DSR combo. Canon are bringing out new cameras much too frequently and hiking their UK prices on cameras and lenses by ludicrous amounts. They won't get any more of my money in future. I will buy used for anything I really need.


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## docsmith (Jan 17, 2017)

I am in the "no idea" category, although I have a bit of an idea. I will eventually replace the 5DIII, but I am not in a rush. When I do replace it I will want AF points that are f/8, EV-3 or EV-4, and that have the best possible spread (quantity is less important than quality). I shoot stills, so video features mean very little to me. I consider the 5DIV to be 20% better is about 15 different ways to the 5DIII, which becomes a nice upgrade. Yet, I am very happy with the 5DIII and do not really consider it deficient. Of the upgrades, I do occasionally battle shadow noise/banding on the 5DIII, so the improved sensor and finer grain noise would be an upgrade. I would want extra fps, but 7 fps on the 5DIV isn't that much motivation compared to 6 fps on the 5DIII. I don't really feel the need for 30.4 MP, so if Canon backs off on the MP and gains in sensor performance, I am all for it.

So, I can see myself getting the 5DIV after the prices fall a bit, getting the 6DII if the sensor is great and it meets my AF point requirement, or deciding to save my money for classes, excursions, or something like a 500 f/4 II.

I have about 52,000 actuations on my 5DIII, so it should be good for years. In the mean time, my bank account grows.

If Canon were to make a camera just for me it would:

28 MP
30-60 high quality AF points covering 80% of the frame 
9 fps
Better shadow noise/DR/less banding than the 5DIII (newer sensors seem to be what I want)
Take whatever I can get at higher ISO
wi-fi
DPAF or something else that improved Liveview focus
Touch screen that allowed you to select AF points on the LCD while looking through the viewfinder (seems like a great feature on the M5)
Built in intervalometer, focus peaking, etc
Really not that far off of the 5DIV.


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## GammyKnee (Jan 17, 2017)

I actually had trouble picking an option in the poll. The option I really need is:

- I'm keeping my 5D3 for sure, but I am up for replacing my 5DII with something better. The 5DIV (while ticking ALL the boxes for me) is way too costly. So it could be a 6DII, or perhaps bizarrely, a 5DS.

Whichever body I end up getting, the only must-haves for me at this point are:

- Anti-flicker tech
- Cleaner shadows relative to 5D3
- Multiple, trustworthy AF points
- 1/8000 max shutter
- Battery compatibility with 5D3

Honestly I might end up taking the 5DS route not because I desperately need the resolution (though it would be handy) but because of the very familiar ergonomics, AF system etc. Not to mention the ability to share cards.

That said, I certainly wouldn't rule out the 6DII if the AF is good enough and the price is right.

Wait and see... wait and see...


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## ahsanford (Jan 17, 2017)

docsmith said:


> If Canon were to make a camera just for me it would:
> 
> 28 MP
> 30-60 high quality AF points covering 80% of the frame
> ...



I really think the 5D4 dropped the ball with only +1 fps over the the 5D3 and +2.5 fps over the 6D. _What happens when the 6D2 comes in at 6 fps -- only 1 fps lower than the 5D4 -- at only 60% of the price?_ There are a ton of things that differentiate models, but AF system, fps and MP count seem to be the biggest price differentiators.

I'm not even a burst shooter (I live in single shot / one shot AF) and I see that 'horsepower spec' of fps and start to justify a 5D4 purchase as a future-proofing move in my head. 7 fps isn't why I didn't get it, but 8-9 fps would have helped Canon's cause there with a lot of people I think.

- A


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## jeffa4444 (Jan 17, 2017)

ahsandford

The 5D MKIV is improved in many ways over the 5D MKIV, better weather sealing, better metering system, better mirror system, intervalometer, sensor, lighter, better ISO, are you seriously comparing it simply on AF & frame rate?


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## ahsanford (Jan 17, 2017)

jeffa4444 said:


> ahsandford
> 
> The *5D MKIV is improved in many ways over the 5D MKIV*, better weather sealing, better metering system, better mirror system, intervalometer, sensor, lighter, better ISO, are you seriously comparing it simply on AF & frame rate?



1) See my prior post on the 6D2 thread about quoting. It also applies to proofing your own posts. ;D

2) Answering your question: of course not. I'm just saying that there are *'punchier / more present' upgrades* (sensor, fps, AF system, tilty-flippy) and there are *'nice and thoughtful' upgrades* (anti-flicker, DP RAW, touchscreen, lighter weight). The former group brings users into the store (so to speak) to have a closer look at the product, while the latter does not -- at least not in the same numbers. 

I'm arguing it's far far easier to differentiate Model X from Model X Mark II (and therefore justify its higher price) with nontrivial bumps in the punchier specs. Or, the corollary, in _absence of improvement_ of those specs, it will be harder to justify a high price.

Applying this idea: compared to the 5D4, a 6D2 with a 28 MP same-gen sensor, 6 fps and (say) 45 AF points is a threat to the 5D4 price. Canon needs to spike the punch a bit with the 6D2 to keep the 5D4 as being '$1500 better' than the 6D2. I contend it would have been easier to make that '$1500 better' value proposition with a 5D4 if it sat at 8-9 fps over the 6D2's 6 fps, that's all. 

- A


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## slclick (Jan 17, 2017)

Not a replacement but as a 2nd body, primarily for macro if they keep the focus screen


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## H. Jones (Jan 17, 2017)

As a 1DX2 owner with a secondary 5D3, the rumored specs and price of the 6D2 really did catch my eye. I primarily shoot news with my 1DX2 and 5D3, but I'm an avid fan of shooting landscapes in my downtime. I'd love to have a lightweight, high DR, 28 mp 6D2 to shoot landscapes with, which could serve as an additional back-up to the 5D3, if it was low enough in price.

Though, like was previously mentioned, I don't think I could go back to using the little touch-pad multicontroller while shooting news instead of a joystick. I previously shot with a 60D and couldn't stand that little thing, especially when it finally broke on me. For landscapes and portraits--totally fine, but for any of my serious work, it puts me off. Added onto that is the lower build quality and less weather sealing, but I'm still OK with that in regards to landscapes. 

All that said, I'd probably benefit more in my serious work by moving the 5D3 to a 5D mark IV or getting a back-up 1DX.


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## sunnyVan (Jan 17, 2017)

You will not have to use joystick. You can change focus point using touchscreen. 



Ryananthony said:


> No.
> 
> After using a 5D with the joystick, its hard to go back to the mushy pad for selecting AF points. Sounds silly I'm sure.
> 
> I also can't afford the newest body every couple years, and would rather spend my money on more lenses at the moment. Regardless of what some people think, the 5D3 is just as capable now as it was when it was first released.


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## Ryananthony (Jan 18, 2017)

sunnyVan said:


> You will not have to use joystick. You can check focus point using touchscreen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Possibly, and I'm not going to turn down that idea completely until I try it. But, I am a left eye shooter, and pinching my fingers in between my face and the screen seems a little worse off then the joystick. Willing to stand corrected though.


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## rrcphoto (Jan 18, 2017)

sunnyVan said:


> You will not have to use joystick. You can change focus point using touchscreen.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



you're not assuming it will have touch and drag AF like the M5 are you?


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## sunnyVan (Jan 18, 2017)

I'm almost 100% sure that I will pick up a 6dmk2 instead of a 5dmk4. I absolutely love the build quality of the 5d series but I really want a full frame that is smaller and lighter. It seems to me that 5dmk4 is superior only in terms of build quality and slightly more megapixels and may be slightly speedier. I'm not willing to pay over $1000 more just for these things. I will very likely keep my 5dmk3 as backup.


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## sunnyVan (Jan 18, 2017)

No. I am assuming it works like an 80d. 



rrcphoto said:


> sunnyVan said:
> 
> 
> > You will not have to use joystick. You can change focus point using touchscreen.
> ...


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## YellowJersey (Jan 18, 2017)

I went with "Yes, because sensor" even though I'm still a little bit on the fence. My 5D3 is actually a bit overkill for me. I wish I'd waited and got the 6D instead of the 5D3, to be honest. I shoot mostly landscapes, so I don't need a super spiffy autofocus, and DPAF in liveview would be handy for anywhere the autofocus points couldn't reach. And the 5D4 is also more than I need. Plus, I don't shoot video, so those features are kind of wasted on me. Plus plus, I can sell my 5D3 and recoup at least half of what a 6D2 is going to run me. 

That said, I'm still keen on seeing what Sony has up its sleeve with the A7 III.


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## Bob Howland (Jan 18, 2017)

No. I'll wait for the 5D5 to come out. Maybe it'll be mirrorless and weigh half as much.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jan 18, 2017)

I never make a purchase decision based on rumored specifications, or on specifications at all. 

There are too many things not covered in the PR that can make or break a camera. Fortunately, Canon is pretty consistent with providing a solid set of features, but I want some concrete reviews first.


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## monkey44 (Jan 18, 2017)

I've been contemplating a second 5DM3 for backup, and to carry two lenses ... saves changing in the field, and cleaner with no switching in dust and wind and dirt areas. 

Depending on the specs and reviews on the 6D2, I may do that instead. If it brings more to the table than another 5DM3 (which serves me just fine, and I own the 7D2 as well) -- and the price might make a difference between one or the other. It's not a replacement for the 5DM3, just additional support for my field work. 

The 5DM4 - in my opinion - does not improve enough over the 5DM3 to warrant $3K-$4K price tag for what I shoot ... 

So, I'm more curious than "waiting for it" ... and will see what it brings first, then decide.


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## ahsanford (Jan 18, 2017)

sunnyVan said:


> I'm almost 100% sure that I will pick up a 6dmk2 instead of a 5dmk4. I absolutely love the build quality of the 5d series but I really want a full frame that is smaller and lighter. It seems to me that 5dmk4 is superior only in terms of build quality and slightly more megapixels and may be slightly speedier. I'm not willing to pay over $1000 more just for these things. I will very likely keep my 5dmk3 as backup.



I keep hearing smaller/lighter with the 6D, and though it is, it's not that much better:

6D 755g
1 battery 80g 
24-105 L II 819g (in-use weight with hood per TDP)
Total 1,654g

5D4 800g
1 battery 80g
24-105 L II 819g
Total 1,699g

And the corresponding size is attached. I appreciate the 5D4 went on a diet from the 5D3 (about 150g) and the 6D2 may follow suit, but that would be a tiny difference in the stack above. So for me, in use, these cameras are equivalently large and heavy. 

I do not anticipate a SL1-ification of the 6D design into something super tiny/light -- does anyone else?

- A


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## Maximilian (Jan 18, 2017)

I don't see any reason to change. 
The improvements are too low in relation to the price rise (5D4 in Germany).
And I don't see enough advantages in the 6D2, referring to the rumored specs.
For me a 5D5 will be the next body I'll take a closer look on to decide.


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## Maximilian (Jan 18, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> ...
> I really think the 5D4 dropped the ball with only +1 fps over the the 5D3 and +2.5 fps over the 6D.
> ...


I do not have the need for more fps than the 5D3 or 4 can deliver. But I agree with you especially if you compare that improvement not only within the Canon portfolio but also others (e.g. Sony alpha99 II @ 12 fps in about the same price segment) it looks a little bit misplaced.


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## Ian_of_glos (Jan 18, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> docsmith said:
> 
> 
> > If Canon were to make a camera just for me it would:
> ...



You are absolutely right. 9fps would have been a compelling reason for me to upgrade to the 5D mk4 now, but 7fps just isn't enough of an increase on the 6fps I have with my 5D mk3 today. Rather than buying a 5D mk 4 I have been looking at second hand 1DX mk1. For me, this is a more attractive option than the 5D mk4 and it is £1,000 less expensive.


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## NorbR (Jan 18, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> I keep hearing smaller/lighter with the 6D, and though it is, it's not that much better:
> 
> 6D 755g
> 1 battery 80g
> ...



Interesting ... I didn't realize that the 5D4 had shed so much weight compared to the 5D3. 
The difference between 6D and 5D3 is certainly noticeable, but given those numbers I agree that the difference with the 5D4 is likely less significant. 
I really should get my hands on a 5D4 some day, just to try it out ...

Edit: OK I did a bit more digging, and while it's not always easy to know which weight exactly is quoted depending on where you look, I think Canon USA gives a reliable answer. So comparing apples to apples:

*Body only weight:*

5D4: 800g
5D3: 860g
6D: 680g

*CIPA weight* (incl. battery etc.)

5D4: 890g
5D3: 950g
6D: 755g

So yes the 5D4 is somewhat lighter than the 5D3, but the 6D remains significantly lighter imho.


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## ahsanford (Jan 18, 2017)

Maximilian said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Agree Canon could go higher, but not that high. 

Sony, as usual, is glossing over realities with marketing on the A99 II. Depending on the lenses you use (older lenses, f/4 lenses, etc.), jumping to the 12 fps mode locks the AF after the first exposure and/or drops to a lossy compression format. Check the manual out on that. (It can do 12 fps with AF, but make sure you own the right lenses to do that.)

- A


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## StudentOfLight (Jan 18, 2017)

I've already dropped the 5D-III with the introduction of the 5D-IV as I wanted to maximize on resale value before lots of 5D-IIIs hit the 2nd hand market. I already have a 6D and 1Ds-III (and can rent a 5Ds/R if required) to cover my full frame requirements, so not missing out on having full frame coverage when I need it.

Anyway, I listed the benefits of the 5D-IV to me:
1) Improved DR (especially useful at low ISO)
2) Tighter pixel pitch - gives more pixels on target in reach-limited scenarios
3) 7fps - slight boost is useful for sports/action/wildlife
4) Slightly wider AF coverage
5) UHS-1 support
6) DPAF - excellent servo AF in video
(The 4K implementation on the 5D-IV was so ridiculous that I would never use it so it didn't make it onto my list of useful features.)

When I looked at that list I realized that Canon already made a camera that had all those benefits but was better and less expensive - the 80D. 

With it's 1.6x crop it provides 100% more pixels on target than the 5D-IV in reach limited situations. So where I'd need to use a 1.4xTC on the 5D-IV I could use the bare lens on the 80D. It also had a fully-articulating touch LCD which I find beneficial for run & gun situations (e.g. video, overhead and ground level shots, freehand macro) So the 80D provides all the useful-to-me benefits of the 5D-IV (and more) at a faction of the price. 

Sadly, I see the 5D-IV as a Benjamin Button camera - it was born old and will probably be rejuvenated with firmware updates and Magic Lantern tweaks. Depending on how those go, and the final 6D-II specification, I might be a late adopter of 5D-IV or an early adopter of the 6D-II. It really made no sense for me to be an early adopter of the 5D-IV.


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## ahsanford (Jan 18, 2017)

NorbR said:


> Edit: OK I did a bit more digging, and while it's not always easy to know which weight exactly is quoted depending on where you look, I think Canon USA gives a reliable answer. So comparing apples to apples:
> 
> (truncated)
> 
> So yes the 5D4 is somewhat lighter than the 5D3, but the 6D remains significantly lighter imho.



I was using TDP's data, which I believe is the CIPA data. But citing only the body + battery is not unlike people comparing FF mirrorless vs. FF SLR size of the just body -- it's misleading. In reality, _we need lenses_, and they tend to diminish the size/weight savings of that tinier body.

See below. One pic has you believe one will be smaller to use, and the other just punishes your hands for chasing that idea. Only the tear-down (non-lens) packing size is better, which is not a consideration for a single body shooter like I am.

So I think some form of my first calculation is more like the reality of owning a 6D. Knock 150g off the math for the 6D2, but it's still going to be within 15-20% of the 5D4 setup for a standard zoom. So unless you only shoot with pancakes, the weight savings is not much to write home about.

I'm not opposed to weight reduction -- any bit helps -- but I'll take a tougher build over a very modest weight savings every time.

- A


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## mnclayshooter (Jan 18, 2017)

I'm in a slightly different camp. 6D - is there a reason to upgrade to the 6D2? 


tilty-flippy is attractive to me for macro or other similar odd-angled shots
sensor- meh... unless it gives me a TON better low-light performance - the 6D is pretty good all around in that regard
Higher MP count? meh - I print mostly at 16x20 or occasionally 24x36 at the largest... resolution of the 6D is fine for that so far. 

The bigger question - will the hopefully more versatile AF system be "Good enough" to warrant spending additional money, but not so much additional money that the 5D4 doesn't make better sense? 

In a round about sort of way, I'm re-hashing the debate of what is the right price point for the 6D2 to not undermine the 5D4 but still provide enough features to entice people to upgrade from _______ body.


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## ahsanford (Jan 18, 2017)

mnclayshooter said:


> I'm in a slightly different camp. 6D - is there a reason to upgrade to the 6D2?



If you are a 6D owner, the upgrade value proposition is a lot clearer. You'll get (we presume):


AF system overhaul -- a major upgrade (even if Canon doesn't go all the way up to the 61/65 points of the big boys)
Tilty-flippy touchscreen
4-8 MP bump in resolution (I think it might actually be 24 MP and not 28 MP)
DPAF
Clever recent stuff: NFC, anti-flicker, intervalometer, customizable menus, possibly even DP RAW functionality or touchscreen AF point selection
A higher quality sensor, perhaps 1-1.5 stops of base ISO DR due to on-chip ADC
A second memory card slot
A small weight reduction
+1 to +1.5 fps (total guess, to be fair)

Now take a step back and think about that list and how it applies to different camps of photographers:


Landscapers get a little more detail, a little more DR, and an intervalometer.
Wedding folks get the trust/reliability of a second memory slot and strong video AF.
Lower budget / more casual videographers (who haven't bought a GH4/GH5) don't need to bolt-on monitors and LCD loupes anymore now that there's a tilty-flippy and strong video AF
The hockey mom or soccer dad can shoot indoor sports more reliably with anti-flicker and better AF
Folks who want to dabble at wildlife get a few f/8 AF points and better AF in general
Journalists and vloggers get a tilty-flippy for self-reporting and NFC to share things more quickly

You have to give Canon some credit here -- that's a roundly attractive value proposition to a host of different camps of users. Not every 6D1 owner will upgrade, but I expect more 6D1 folks to get a 6D2 than a 5D4.

- A


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## docsmith (Jan 18, 2017)

Ian_of_glos said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > docsmith said:
> ...



The bottom line is that pragmatic people ask them selves basic questions before spending $3,500. You know...such as, why am I doing this? Or specific questions like "what does this camera do that can't be done with my current camera?" 

It isn't just about horsepower (although I get the analogy). 8-9 fps would make a camera so much more reasonable for sports, BIF, and a number of other things. THAT is a reason to upgrade. But 1 fps....not a reason to upgrade.

The 5DIV is a very solid if not great camera. It is a little better than the 5DIII in a number of ways, which is great. But, at least for me, it has lacked that compelling reason to make me want to spend the money on it.

My quick guess, I'll pick up an early refurbished model (CPW alert is already set) in about a year. Get the price down to $2,500-$2,750. I'll sell my 5DIII and have to add in $1,000-$1,500. Ok. For a new camera and a number of features that begins to make sense. But $2,000-$2,500 investment after selling my 5DIII hasn't made much sense yet. 

But, as I have money in the bank, I'll continue to evaluate cameras until I decide to pull the trigger. So here is room for the 6DII to come in an impress me. Until then, I'll happily continue to use the 5DIII.


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## Don Haines (Jan 18, 2017)

You need another option in the poll: darned if I know!

Don't know the features....
Don't know the price.....
Don't know the release date.....
Don't know how well it will perform.....

How could one know if they are going to buy?


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## soldrinero (Jan 19, 2017)

I'm a bit unusual, because I picked up my 5D3 just last February on a good "open box" deal. I am rather cash-constrained, so I waited until the end of the life-cycle for the mark 3 to become affordable.

If I hadn't just gotten the 5D3, I'd be a great candidate for a 6D2. I had been shooting a Rebel for years, mostly of social dancing (https://flic.kr/s/aHskDhL6jM). My two requirements for an upgrade were significantly better low-light performance and better AF. Lots of APS-C cameras could have improved the AF, but the high-ISO performance always seemed too incremental. I actually rented a 6D as a test drive; I loved the sensor but the AF seemed worse than my T1i! (It probably wasn't in an absolute sense, but the shallower depth of field made it relatively worse.) If the 6D2 has 80D-level AF, it would be the perfect camera for someone like me - a dedicated hobbyist without the cash for high-end pro gear.

As it stands, I don't need improved low-ISO DR (because I almost never shoot there), and there's almost no chance the 6D2 matches the 5D3's AF (I'm still improving with it, but my keeper rate has climbed considerably). I'm happy staying with last year's excellent gear!


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## Maximilian (Jan 19, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Agree Canon could go higher, but not that high.
> 
> Sony, as usual, is glossing over realities with marketing on the A99 II. Depending on the lenses you use (older lenses, f/4 lenses, etc.), jumping to the 12 fps mode locks the AF after the first exposure and/or drops to a lossy compression format. Check the manual out on that. (It can do 12 fps with AF, but make sure you own the right lenses to do that.)
> 
> - A


*lol* I didn't recognize that. Thank you for pointing that out, ahsanford.
I only cast an eye at them to stay up to date.
As I will never buy anything with the "Sony" brand on it again, it doesn't matter to me.
I had several issues with them on mutlimedia items since the Walkman time. 
I swore to me "Never again!"


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## LDS (Jan 19, 2017)

My next camera will be probably an M5 - I need a smaller/lighter one to expand my photo occasions. Personally, I see little reasons to get a 6DII over my 5D3, nor the 5D4 justified the upgrade price (for the photos I take). Got a TS lens instead, which again expands my images to new territories. Sensor performance and fps are not everything 

I'll wait for the 5DV, or later, until my 5DIII becomes really too old.


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## sanj (Jan 19, 2017)

I would consider it for family travel because of light weight/size.


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## Ozarker (Jan 19, 2017)

Holding out for a 5D Mark V if there will be one.


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## romanr74 (Jan 19, 2017)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Holding out for a 5D Mark V if there will be one.



On the same page here... (this being the first time I skip a release...)


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## rpiotr01 (Jan 19, 2017)

Have had a 5D3 since 2012 but since starting to shoot almost exclusively with MF lenses it feels like some overkill. Can't say for sure since specs are not out but a 6DII in theory seems like a nice upgrade for my purposes. Trading some AF performance for better noise, newer sensor tech, less weight and hopefully replaceable focus screens is a good deal for me.


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## Chuck Alaimo (Jan 19, 2017)

there was no real option on the poll that fits me.The 5d4 is so early still in it's life cycle and I know that I'm probably not the only one with my mindset - the release time sucked for wedding shooters, or, it wasn't great for being an early adopter. For folks like me, the 5d4 came out right when income starts to dry up, and, wedding season in the northeast isn't exactly bumpin in the winter months. I'll happily purchase it this spring/early summer when funds are a bit more liquid and there are actual weddings to shoot. I've been renting it when needed but.

The 6d2 doesn't interest me much as something to purchase. Now with that aid, I do own a 6d. It's been my second body now for 2 years. I'd consider the 6d2 if it weren't for a few things, non of which has to do with the IQ, or in camera specs really -

Reason 1 and everything falls in this category, body size/button layout. I know my 5d3 like the back of my hand. I rarely have to stop to look and consider what I'm pushing. When i shoot with the 6d and 5d3, it's a game of stumbling around. having the image playback buttons on the opposite side, I know its there but i always stumble when i have to do it. Same with ISO, not in the same place. Those 2 things are really annoying enough to sway me away from considering the 6d2.

IQ wise the original 6d is great, i have a very hard time telling the difference between the 6d and the 5d3. The AF is limited, and I could deal with that if not for the body size/button layout. 

I'm sure the 6d2 will be a fine camera. But for what I'm doing, unless they made the body larger (only way to get that row of buttons on the left side back, and have the top controls mirror the 5d3/5d4) its a no sale.


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## ahsanford (Jan 19, 2017)

I also wonder if moving from a 5D3 to a 6D2 would seem like a prestige/feel downgrade to some.

I recognize even the 6D1 had a thing or two over the 5D3, but the 5D3 feels like a professional instrument, the ergonomics and feel are impeccable, etc. Moving to a 6D product after that would feel... _less_, I guess.

I don't say that as a brand-level snob or anything. I just think there's more to a rig than its specs or sensor.

- A


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## sunnyVan (Jan 19, 2017)

That's almost for sure. You will absolutely miss the robust feeling of the 5d. That's how I felt when I had the 80d in my hand. In comparison the 80d felt plasticky, easily scratchable. Well, we can't have it all, can we? 



ahsanford said:


> I also wonder if moving from a 5D3 to a 6D2 would seem like a prestige/feel downgrade to some.
> 
> I recognize even the 6D1 had a thing or two over the 5D3, but the 5D3 feels like a professional instrument, the ergonomics and feel are impeccable, etc. Moving to a 6D product after that would feel... _less_, I guess.
> 
> ...


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## YellowJersey (Jan 20, 2017)

To the "never buy a camera based on specs" argument: you're absolutely right, _but_ I think in the case of this thread, most of us are (hopefully) posting "yes" with an unwritten caveat of "provided the reviews and such are good and nothing emerges that is a dealbreaker for me." 

I'd like to think that most people wouldn't commit 100% to a camera due to specs alone, must less rumoured specs.


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## rrcphoto (Jan 20, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> I am only looking for _current 5D3 owners that skipped the 5D4_, please.
> 
> - A



way too soon to determine if someone "skipped the 5D4" and we have no idea on the ergonomics of the new 6D body.


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## ahsanford (Jan 20, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > I am only looking for _current 5D3 owners that skipped the 5D4_, please.
> ...



Come now, I clearly meant people who skipped the 5D4 _so far_. If the price plummets or the 6D2 ends up lacking a critical feature, it would tip the 5D4 fence-sitters dramatically.

I generally am seeing the 5D3 camp -- _those that use it as their principal rig_ -- doing one of four things this cycle:


They became early adopters of 5D4 -- they got one within the first 60 days of release
They are presently waiting to choose between the 5D4 and 6D2
They will get a 6D2 for either size/weight or value reasons
They will hold out and not buy either the 6D2 or the 5D4 this cycle or wait a long period of time for their chosen next camera to come down in price. Either way, this camp is in no hurry to retire their 5D3.

This very informal poll would imply that:

1) A majority of this group (a shade over 2/3 at present) will keep shooting their 5D3 and not get a 5D4 or 6D2 ...at present pricing or expectation of pricing.

2) A small number (1/6 at present) of folks are going to replace their 5D3 with a 6D2.

3) Most peoples' minds are somehow already made up on this. Only 10/66 responses are in the 'Mind not made up' / 'Might revisit 5D4 based on 6D2 specs'
_
(rrc, #3 above gets to your "way too soon" comment. I agree that a gamechanging 6D2 spec list or design might rock this poll a bit, but only 10/66 in the uncertain bucket might imply that the vast majority sufficiently believe the rumored specs/prices to have made up their mind.)_

I find everyone's thought processes fascinating with this.

- A


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## YellowJersey (Jan 22, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



It's not over until fat lady sings. Or, in this case, until the camera's been released and on the market for at least a few months. It'd be interesting if Canon had a poll on purchase of a 6D2 asking what your previous camera was, if any. But as for before the camera's even announced, always best to take answers with a grain of salt. People on both sides may change their minds. I know a company that gets a LOT of requests to do a certain type of product, but whenever the company makes the requested product, few actually buy it. There's a big difference between what people say they will do and what they will actually do.


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## deadwrong (Jan 22, 2017)

I think Canon has put itself it a tight corner with the 5D4 and soon to be 6dii. LEts face it, the 5D4 is not a camera that is revolutionary. How can you release a 6dii in the next 4-5 months that has less features than the 5d4? 

If Canon makes that 6dii substantially weaker than the 5D4, your 6dii will have outdated features as compared to competitor and within price range. 

The 5D4 within 2 years will look VERY overpriced when Nikon, Sony etc.

I think either way you will get a camera that is not future proof. If i had a 5d3, i would keep that.......


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## unfocused (Jan 22, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> I generally am seeing the 5D3 camp -- _those that use it as their principal rig_ -- doing one of four things this cycle:
> 
> 
> They became early adopters of 5D4 -- they got one within the first 60 days of release
> ...



Well, first of all you've missed one of the largest groups: 5DIII owners who have or are considering upgrading to the 1D series. Without including that group, the poll is flawed from the beginning. People are much more likely to upgrade to a higher level camera than downgrade to a lower. This would include people who are considering the 1DX II as well as people who find the 1DX and 1DC more attractive as the prices drop. This group is very likely larger than those considering the 6D II.

Secondly, you are making some artificial distinctions for those in the wait-and-see camp. You are assuming they fall into neat categories, when more likely the majority are quite fluid in the their decision making. Owners of the 5DIII who are not early adopters (which would account for the majority of owners) may eventually go for a 5DIV, or they may sit it out this cycle, or they may end up getting a 1DX or they may downgrade to a 6DII, but none of that can be known now, because they don't know yet. It will depend on where prices settle in, what bargains they may come across (such as the recent price slash of the 1D C), their own finances, reviews and recommendations from early adopters, etc. etc.

Also, I'm not sure what you are trying to find out. It's generally acknowledged that the majority of camera buyers don't upgrade every cycle, but usually skip a cycle. Many of those who do upgrade early in the cycle are moving up the line: 70D users buying 6Ds, 6D users buying 5Ds and 5D users buying 1Ds etc.


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## slclick (Jan 22, 2017)

And besides the replacement crowd, there is the 2nd body group. That's a poll for another day I guess.


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## Chuck Alaimo (Jan 22, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



Still feeling like there are missing categories here. What about people in the, will be buying the 5d4, just not early adopting? If I buy one even even as late as September it's still within first year of release.

Said it in another reply, There are lots of wedding shooters who will be buying this come May/June/July, when cash flow is more liquid and there's actually weddings to shoot.

So I'd add to this:

I generally am seeing the 5D3 camp -- those that use it as their principal rig -- doing one of four things this cycle:

They became early adopters of 5D4 -- they got one within the first 60 days of release
They purchase a 5d4 in spring/summer of 2017
They are presently waiting to choose between the 5D4 and 6D2
They will get a 6D2 for either size/weight or value reasons
They will hold out and not buy either the 6D2 or the 5D4 this cycle or wait a long period of time for their chosen next camera to come down in price. Either way, this camp is in no hurry to retire their 5D3.


I don't see the waiting to choose being the option for those using a 5d3 as main rig. I 6d2 would be more of a second body for those in that camp


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## ahsanford (Jan 23, 2017)

unfocused said:


> Well, first of all you've missed one of the largest groups: 5DIII owners who have or are considering upgrading to the 1D series. Without including that group, the poll is flawed from the beginning. People are much more likely to upgrade to a higher level camera than downgrade to a lower. This would include people who are considering the 1DX II as well as people who find the 1DX and 1DC more attractive as the prices drop. This group is very likely larger than those considering the 6D II.



Fair point, that is a miss. These sort of snap polls are imperfect animals that way -- we don't put our heads together before posting them.



unfocused said:


> Also, I'm not sure what you are trying to find out. It's generally acknowledged that the majority of camera buyers don't upgrade every cycle, but usually skip a cycle. Many of those who do upgrade early in the cycle are moving up the line: 70D users buying 6Ds, 6D users buying 5Ds and 5D users buying 1Ds etc.



That blue bit above might be off-target for this wonderful forum of gearheads -- recall that I wasn't asking the market and I was asking the _forum_. At CR, many people here get new bodies at an alarming rate.

And I'm not convinced that people only move up. Consider my (not that unique) case. Recall that when the 5D3 was first offered, the 6D did not exist and many folks like me making the climb to FF from crop had a choice of opting in for a very late cycle 5D2 with iffy AF or going all-in for the 5D3. I ending up buying a 5D3, but I never needed video and all the 5D level goodies. 

So as much as I still love my 5D3, a 'downgrade' to the 6D2 could be a very cost-effective way for a non-action stills guys to get in on some sweet on-chip ADC sensor goodness and a tilty-flippy for a whale less money than a 5D4.

But I appreciate the feedback -- the 1D upgrade path is a miss. Thx.

- A


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## jdramirez (Jan 23, 2017)

I used my mkiii this weekend to shoot basketball and personally... I think I rocked it... So maybe the mkv if they come out with one... But I'm really quite pleased with my current setup.


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## slclick (Jan 23, 2017)

I totally get the downgrade thing. The 5D3 is too much camera for many people and like said above, there was no other Canon FF option except an older or more expensive model. If you don't use Servo or video selling your Mark 3 and getting a 6 Series sounds reasonable.


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## YellowJersey (Jan 23, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Well, first of all you've missed one of the largest groups: 5DIII owners who have or are considering upgrading to the 1D series. Without including that group, the poll is flawed from the beginning. People are much more likely to upgrade to a higher level camera than downgrade to a lower. This would include people who are considering the 1DX II as well as people who find the 1DX and 1DC more attractive as the prices drop. This group is very likely larger than those considering the 6D II.
> ...



I'm pretty much in the same boat and faced the same dilemma when the 5D3 came out.

But at the end of the day, I keep coming back to price. As much as a 5D4 or A7rII would be nice, they're both really expensive. Plus, I find it really hard to justify that price when no small amount of that money is going to buy features I will never use. So the 6D2 (probably) provides a camera with all the things I want without all the extra stuff I don't care about. Plus, every time I find myself eying the 5D4 or A7rII, I remind myself that the same amount of money could buy a 6D2 plus a lens or two. 

I think "downgrading" makes a lot of sense if you're moving to something that suits your needs better, and the lower cost is a nice bonus. Case in point, I have a friend who shot with the 5D2 for years, but he was using it for wildlife and was frustrated with the autofocus and the expense of the big white lenses. I suggested a 7D2 and he actually ended up going with the 80D. He couldn't be happier.


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## Alex_M (Jan 23, 2017)

* quality degradfation.*

1/4000 maximum shutter speed of 6D could be another limiting factor for environmental portraiture when shooting at F1.2/1.4 outdoors. I try avoiding ND filters if possible due to introduced colour cast and other IQ related issue.


slclick said:


> I totally get the downgrade thing. The 5D3 is too much camera for many people and like said above, there was no other Canon FF option except an older or more expensive model. If you don't use Servo or video selling your Mark 3 and getting a 6 Series sounds reasonable.


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## slclick (Jan 23, 2017)

*Re: quality degradfation.*



Alex_M said:


> 1/4000 maximum shutter speed of 6D could be another limiting factor for environmental portraiture when shooting at F1.2/1.4 outdoors. I try avoiding ND filters if possible due to introduced colour cast and other IQ related issue.
> 
> 
> slclick said:
> ...



I get that and found that I just needed to spend more $ and get better ND filters!


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## unfocused (Jan 23, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> ...recall that I wasn't asking the market and I was asking the _forum_. At CR, many people here get new bodies at an alarming rate.
> 
> And I'm not convinced that people only move up. Consider my (not that unique) case. Recall that when the 5D3 was first offered, the 6D did not exist and many folks like me making the climb to FF from crop had a choice of opting in for a very late cycle 5D2 with iffy AF or going all-in for the 5D3. I ending up buying a 5D3, but I never needed video and all the 5D level goodies.
> 
> So as much as I still love my 5D3, a 'downgrade' to the 6D2 could be a very cost-effective way for a non-action stills guys to get in on some sweet on-chip ADC sensor goodness and a tilty-flippy for a whale less money than a 5D4.



Good points. I guess I was a little confused about the purpose behind this poll. I think it is valid to identify if there are any forum readers considering downgrading from the 5DIII to the 6DII. 

My path has been a bit different. When I decided to move to full-frame the 6D was already available, but after a lot of thought I decided that the 5DIII was better suited for my purposes. One of the main deciding factors may seem insignificant to others, but I had been using a 7D and just did not like the idea of giving up features like the joystick.

Generally, I try to be thrifty (not sure my wife would agree), but I knew that if I got the 6D, I would always be wishing I had gone for the 5DIII. 

My circumstances have changed since buying the 5DIII and I now shoot a lot of sports. I was not happy with the 5DIII for sports and picked up a 7DII at a bargain price. I fell in love with the improved autofocus and higher frame rate, so when the 1DX II came out, I became one of those that moved from the 5DIII to the 1D X II. 

I do think Canon faces a bit of a dilemma with the next 6DII, and will need to carefully target the feature set so that it remains appealing, but does not undermine the 5DIV too badly. Notice that I did not and won't use the term "crippled," which in my view is a ludicrous term to use for product differentiation. 

The obvious areas for differentiation I believe will be in frame rate, autofocus, weathersealing and ergonomics (joystick). People expecting the 6DII to have the 5DIII autofocus are likely to be disappointed. But, a 7D I or 70D autofocus (which there is nothing wrong with) would be a big improvement over the original 6D and still maintain product differentiation.


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## rrcphoto (Jan 23, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> (rrc, #3 above gets to your "way too soon" comment. I agree that a gamechanging 6D2 spec list or design might rock this poll a bit, but only 10/66 in the uncertain bucket might imply that the vast majority sufficiently believe the rumored specs/prices to have made up their mind.)[/i]
> 
> I find everyone's thought processes fascinating with this.
> 
> - A



doesn't have to be game changing. the inclusion of an AF joystick would change the poll dramatically I would imagine.


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## ahsanford (Jan 23, 2017)

unfocused said:


> I do think Canon faces a bit of a dilemma with the next 6DII, and will need to carefully target the feature set so that it remains appealing, but does not undermine the 5DIV too badly. Notice that I did not and won't use the term "crippled," which in my view is a ludicrous term to use for product differentiation.



This is the $64,000 question: _What gets nerfed with the 6D2?_

There's a brew of perhaps five major drivers for this (guesses in parens):


What do enthusiasts obsess about and might pay more for / might keep the price near the initial asking for a longer period of time? (Sensor performance sensor performance sensor performance, tilty-flippy screen come to mind)


What to pros insist on having on a rig their livelihood depends on? (Two card slots, flash sync speed, AF joystick, high shutter lifespan, 1/8000 shutter, etc.)


What does the market always use to differentiate models and set pricing with? (Resolution, FPS, 4K, etc.)


What can Canon reasonably deliver at their internal production cost targets? (1DX2 metering = no, Touchscreen = yes, NFC = yes, etc.)


What has Canon already released or plan to release that might be cannibalized / undercut by the proposed new offering? (Surely the 5D4, possibly FF mirrorless, also possibly a stripped-down budget FF SLR)


And from those drivers they make the tough calls. 

- A


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## unfocused (Jan 23, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> 1/8000 shutter



On a side note, this one perplexes me. I've read some comments here where people say they want this. I can't imagine. Are they shooting on top of an iceberg at noon on a sunny day?


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## slclick (Jan 23, 2017)

unfocused said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > 1/8000 shutter
> ...



I think it's perfectly fine for 'some' folks to want to use a 1.2 lens for sunny portraiture


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## unfocused (Jan 23, 2017)

slclick said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



I'm not suggesting there is anything wrong with it. I'm just having a hard time envisioning that very many people encounter the kind of situation where this is needed. Even with a f1.2 lens, 1/8000 of a second at ISO 100 is one heck of a lot of light. I'm thinking white sand beach at noon on a summer's day and wondering if the subject could even keep their eyes open. Is this really a big "want" for an entry-level full frame camera?


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## ahsanford (Jan 23, 2017)

unfocused said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > 1/8000 shutter
> ...



Portraiture on a sunny day + a fast lens is the concern here. Wedding photogs in bright afternoon conditions don't want to have to crack out an ND filter or stop down.

But yes, for your garden variety enthusiast fooling around with their cameras, this rarely comes up. It happened a few times on a recent 50L rental (kids in the snow), and though I had an ND with me, I just stopped down instead. _Were my livelihood dependent on the shot_, however, I may have screwed on the ND to keep shooting wide.

- A


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## ahsanford (Jan 23, 2017)

unfocused said:


> I'm not suggesting there is anything wrong with it. I'm just having a hard time envisioning that very many people encounter the kind of situation where this is needed. Even with a f1.2 lens, 1/8000 of a second at ISO 100 is one heck of a lot of light. I'm thinking white sand beach at noon on a summer's day and wondering if the subject could even keep their eyes open. Is this really a big "want" for an entry-level full frame camera?



I imagine a lot of less-well-off wedding photogs don't want to pony up $3500+ for either a 50 MP rig or a 5D4 with video features they may never use.

In that light, I see the 6D2 as a 'budget professional's tool' / enthusiast's tool than an entry-level tool. If it's got a solid FF sensor, two card slots, an EF mount and competent but not mindblowing AF, I could see professionals choose a 6D2 and invest the difference in 5D4 price for an RF transmitter, a lens or two, etc.

- A


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## SaabStory (Jan 23, 2017)

My first digital camera was the Canon G1, which had an amazingly useful "flippy" screen.
I switched to a DSLR in 2001 starting with the D30, and eventually moving on to the full-frame 5D series. Of course my 5D3 is massively better than that old G1, but I've always missed that articulated "flippy" screen"

I've often wondered why there is so much animosity in the 5D community toward articulated screens? I mean, if someone prefers not to use it, then they can just keep it closed. What's the big deal? Personally, I found to to be very useful.

I had planned to buy a 5D4 by now, but funds are tight, and I'm not feeling an immense need to spend money on that model. However, if the 6D2 becomes available with most of the same features at a lower cost, AND an articulated screen, I will be very excited by that option.


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## LDS (Jan 24, 2017)

SaabStory said:


> What's the big deal?



I still use sometimes a G11. But I wouldn't like a "flippy" screen on my 5DIII because:

1) It may be hard to seal it
2) It's more fragile.
3) The screen needs to be smaller to allow for the frame.
4) It can get in the way in some situations.
5) Some camera buttons may need to be put in less comfortable positions (or eliminated) to allow room for the screen movements.

Is is useful? Sure. Is it indispensable? For many, no. For my style of shooting, I always prefer tethering - and now you can do it wirelessly too.


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## Act444 (Jan 24, 2017)

SaabStory said:


> My first digital camera was the Canon G1, which had an amazingly useful "flippy" screen.
> I switched to a DSLR in 2001 starting with the D30, and eventually moving on to the full-frame 5D series. Of course my 5D3 is massively better than that old G1, but I've always missed that articulated "flippy" screen"
> 
> I've often wondered why there is so much animosity in the 5D community toward articulated screens? I mean, if someone prefers not to use it, then they can just keep it closed. What's the big deal? Personally, I found to to be very useful.
> ...



The G1 was my first digicam as well  and I remember the flip screen. Oddly enough, I don't remember taking advantage of it a whole lot. I kept it for 5 years then decided it was time for an upgrade... I was contemplating a DSLR...actually took a shot at a grey-market Nikon D70S but that fell through for reasons I will not get into...long story short, I changed my mind and went for the compact Elph series. I think it was the SD550, and then later the 950. Then after being let down BIG time by shots I took at an important event, it was time for a DSLR, no way around it. Got a T2i and worked my way up the Canon system. Looking back, crazy how close I was to being a Nikon shooter instead...

Of the DSLRs I've had, only the 60D had a flip screen. My M10 has one but it doesn't swivel or tilt down, so doesn't really count...To be honest though, as often as it came in handy (shooting over crowds), it got in the way as well (extra time to "get the camera ready"). While it would be nice to have sometimes, I can't say I miss having one. Not yet anyway.


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## rrcphoto (Jan 24, 2017)

slclick said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



it's perfectly fine for canon to say.. pony up for the 5D Mark IV then.


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## reef58 (Jan 24, 2017)

unfocused said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > 1/8000 shutter
> ...



Ran into the issue just yesterday actually. Shooting f1.4. I am not sure if the extra stop would have helped but the 1/4000 limit on my 6d definitely crippled my shot.


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## ahsanford (Jan 24, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...



And that's exactly what Canon and Nikon did with the 6D and D600/610/750 respectively.

But now the 80D -- the 6D2's crop doppleganger, one would think -- has been given the 1/8000 shutter. The 6D2 _might_ get this feature.

- A


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## SaabStory (Jan 24, 2017)

Act444 said:


> To be honest though, as often as it came in handy (shooting over crowds), it got in the way as well (extra time to "get the camera ready"). While it would be nice to have sometimes, I can't say I miss having one. Not yet anyway.



I'm curious what you mean when you say that the articulated screen took extra time to get the camera ready? Do you mean that it took some fumbling to close it after having used it open? 

I found the screen useful for two very different reasons, one of which I never hear anyone talk about:

1) I was shooting a lot of concerts and flowers, so shooting over heads and also down at worm's eye level were capabilities that I appreciated.

2) I found it easier to get people to relax and interact with me naturally when I was shooting them without the camera pressed up to me eye. I could hold my camera at chest level and maintain eye contact with my subject, while occasionally stealing glances at my screen. I thought this was fantastic. I never hear anyone mention this.


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## ahsanford (Jan 24, 2017)

SaabStory said:


> I found the screen useful for two very different reasons, one of which I never hear anyone talk about:
> 
> 1) I was shooting a lot of concerts and flowers, so shooting over heads and also down at worm's eye level were capabilities that I appreciated.
> 
> 2) I found it easier to get people to relax and interact with me naturally when I was shooting them without the camera pressed up to me eye. I could hold my camera at chest level and maintain eye contact with my subject, while occasionally stealing glances at my screen. I thought this was fantastic. I never hear anyone mention this.



Tilty-flippy is also a 'broad daylight' street photography move for possibly-less-than-happy subjects that know you are there and are looking at you:

1) Take a throwaway shot of something other than your subject, but do it through the VF in a clearly deliberate 'I am taking a picture of that shop window' sort of manner.

2) Immediately lower the camera to your waist and flip the screen up. It looks like you are chimping the shot you just took, but in actuality you are in LiveView and taking a shot of your subject.

I don't shoot much street, but I have seen this done before.

- A


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## SaabStory (Jan 24, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Tilty-flippy is also a 'broad daylight' street photography move for possibly-less-than-happy subjects that know you are there and are looking at you:
> 
> 1) Take a throwaway shot of something other than your subject, but do it through the VF in a clearly deliberate 'I am taking a picture of that shop window' sort of manner.
> 
> ...



Ha! That sounds like a pretty good maneuver. I don't think I every used it quite that deceptively, but I did enjoy the ability to place the camera on a table in a restaurant or pub, and take a surreptitious shot of the surrounding room without freaking out the other patrons by raising the camera to my eye.


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## Luds34 (Jan 25, 2017)

*Re: quality degradfation.*



slclick said:


> Alex_M said:
> 
> 
> > 1/4000 maximum shutter speed of 6D could be another limiting factor for environmental portraiture when shooting at F1.2/1.4 outdoors. I try avoiding ND filters if possible due to introduced colour cast and other IQ related issue.
> ...



Amen, especially when we're talking the 3 stop filters. Which incidentally, A good CPL can do the job too. I've found at max mine drop about 2 stops of light, which if you're shooting in harsh, bright sunlight, there is a good chance you already want to use a CPL. I love to shoot fast glass, but have never really found the 1/4000 to be a limiting factor. Heck, as long as one doesn't completely destroy the highlights, you can over expose and bring it down in post.


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## Ozarker (Feb 4, 2017)

YellowJersey said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



Canon could always use warrantee registrations to get the previous camera data. Probably why they hope to get online registration of all products.


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