# Why does Canon USA not honor consumer product warranties?



## skitron (Aug 19, 2013)

Mother-in-law bought a SX150, which 3 months later now has what appears to be a logic chip malfunction. Upon booting up it does everything as expected and then zooms to the long end upon where the user can no longer control it. Live view is still working but that's it.

Canon USA told her she dropped the camera and it isn't covered. Problem is (1) it wasn't dropped or knocked around, (2) there is no physical evidence it has been dropped or knocked around - it's mint cosmetically, and (3) the symptoms of the camera are not consistent with Canon USA's claim that it was dropped. 

In this case the husband and the son-in-law of the unfortunate SX150 owner are currently 5D3 owners with a smattering of low to mid-priced L glass (i.e. 24-105, 100L, 70-200 IS II, etc) and up to now had an appetite to add substantially to the respective L collections.

But this incident has left a very foul taste in our mouths. First Canon USA implicitly calls her a liar, then they don't honor their stated warranty, and now she's the proud owner of a mint-looking brick...

Got news for Canon, they can forget ever getting another dime out of me. As for mom in law, she already switched to Nikon. As for me, I'll switch too when it's time to move the 5D3 body. Already moving out non essential lenses in the collection. I simply will not do business with Canon USA or any other company that pulls this sort of BS.


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## jdramirez (Aug 19, 2013)

there is a gyroscope in some cameras which will determine which orientation the picture should be viewed. 

if there is a sensor to determine impact force, then they may have a very accurate method to to deny warranty.

also, is she the only one who ever touches the camera? if someone was planning with it, like a grandkid, they might try to cover up dropping it. they also could have dropped it while it was in the bag so there aren't any scuffs sings or scratches.

she may not be a liar, but it is hard to know unless she locks it in a safe.


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## Meh (Aug 19, 2013)

skitron said:


> Got news for Canon, they can forget ever getting another dime out of me. As for mom in law, she already switched to Nikon. As for me, I'll switch too when it's time to move the 5D3 body. Already moving out non essential lenses in the collection. I simply will not do business with Canon USA or any other company that pulls this sort of BS.



Hmmmmm, seems like quite a rash response. You must somehow think that Nikon or any other consumer product company would never deny a warranty claim. Any company will deny a warranty claim on the slightest evidence of operator error... if not, they constantly be replacing cameras/phones/etc. because ppl drop them all the time even on to carpeted floors where there would be no visible damage.


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## jdramirez (Aug 19, 2013)

some phones have a sticker inside that will tell the manufacturer if the phone was dropped in water.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 19, 2013)

[quote author=Canon]
We are sorry for your loss. Through the Canon Loyalty Program, we'd be pleased to offer you a 20% discount off the price of a refurbished camera of your choice, subject to availability. Thank you for choosing Canon.
[/quote]

:-X


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## michi (Aug 19, 2013)

Gosh, if I changed companies every time a claim for any of my stuff was denied.......


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## jdramirez (Aug 19, 2013)

michi said:


> Gosh, if I changed companies every time a claim for any of my stuff was denied.......



In his defense... about 10 years ago I had a crappy 1.3 megapixel Olympus that I maybe paid $100 for. Probably less... but still. And at one point the camera's usb port konks out and I contact Olympus for warranty work. I explain that I purchased it within a year and I registered it online. They said that they need the original warranty otherwise they can't do anything for me. That was the last Olympus product I ever bought and if they actually were good and made cutting edge gear right now, I wouldn't touch it. 

Having said that, now that things are purchased online, it makes it so much easier to keep the receipt.


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## GmwDarkroom (Aug 19, 2013)

skitron said:


> Canon USA told her she dropped the camera and it isn't covered. Problem is (1) it wasn't dropped or knocked around, (2) there is no physical evidence it has been dropped or knocked around - it's mint cosmetically, and (3) the symptoms of the camera are not consistent with Canon USA's claim that it was dropped.


Did Canon supply an explanation of how or did you ask how they concluded that the camera was dropped?

Seems like a denial of a claim, especially with an assertion of misuse, should come with an explanation of the process of conclusion.


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## jdramirez (Aug 19, 2013)

GmwDarkroom said:


> skitron said:
> 
> 
> > Canon USA told her she dropped the camera and it isn't covered. Problem is (1) it wasn't dropped or knocked around, (2) there is no physical evidence it has been dropped or knocked around - it's mint cosmetically, and (3) the symptoms of the camera are not consistent with Canon USA's claim that it was dropped.
> ...



Was the mother ever on Tosh.O dropping the camera? Did she get a redemption involving super glue?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 19, 2013)

I sell electronic scales, and its quite easy to tell if they are abused. Customers often claim that they did not abuse one, but my scales have a detector in them that tells me what level of overload it experienced during operation (not shipping), and how many times it happened.

In the case of a camera, someone could have knocked it off a table and picked it back up without her knowing.
When internal parts like a lens are jammed together, for example, the only explanation is shock, since the lens motors are not powerful enough to do it.

I've also received beatup items that were shipped to me in a mailing envelope, and the customer wonders why its not covered.

In any event, they should have taken care of it.


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## tpatana (Aug 19, 2013)

The water-detector is typical in cell phones. Every smart phone also has 3-axis accelerometer, but it's up to the software to determine if they measure 24/7, and record it in case of drop/hit. If I was manufacturer, then yes because they don't consume next to nothing on current, and it's great way to indicate abuse.

As for cameras, I have no idea if they have similar feature. It'd be nice if they told how they came to that conclusion.

Long time ago the product my company sold, got returned from the field with a note "it just broke down, send new unit".

The units ran hot always, and they had peltier cooling elements on them. At the time the peltier element was possible to wire wrong way, so it'd heat the device instead of cooling. Unknown to the customer, the inside thermometer was logged, and as I connected to the device with my PC, I read max temperature somewhere around ~90°C (~200F), when it usually ran under 60C (<150F) at max. I emailed the customer if the "it just broke" -unit they had accidentally connected the peltier the wrong way. First they said no, but when I told that we actually read that the unit overheating way beyond what it should be able to do by itself, they confessed that "for short period of time" the peltier was connected wrong.

So no warranty for them.

As for OP, there's chance a kid knocked the camera down from table or something, and it can break even without any visible damage. Without knowing all the facts, it's difficult to judge who's right. For low-end cameras, I wonder if they get lot of spoof warranty attempts, so they might be more strict on those.


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## Valvebounce (Aug 19, 2013)

Hi 
Sorry to hear of your predicament, I feel sure they will have sufficient proof of impact that if legal proceedings were undertaken they would not be found to be wrong for rejecting the warranty claim, and if that is the case EVERY other manufacturer would reject the warranty claim too! 
Ask them for proof of impact damage. Threaten legal action if they cannot prove impact! 

Did you mention to Canon your intention for the family to migrate, not that this will have much sway with a large corporation sadly! 

One other question, has it been in a bag when either a taxi driver has thrown it in the trunk, or airport baggage handlers have played footie with it? 

I have no experience with claiming from Canon, though from what I have heard they are among the more cooperative regarding warranty issues so is jumping ship wise? 

Cheers Graham



skitron said:


> But this incident has left a very foul taste in our mouths. First Canon USA implicitly calls her a liar, then they don't honor their stated warranty, and now she's the proud owner of a mint-looking brick...
> 
> Got news for Canon, they can forget ever getting another dime out of me. As for mom in law, she already switched to Nikon. As for me, I'll switch too when it's time to move the 5D3 body. Already moving out non essential lenses in the collection. I simply will not do business with Canon USA or any other company that pulls this sort of BS.


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## michi (Aug 19, 2013)

jdramirez said:


> michi said:
> 
> 
> > Gosh, if I changed companies every time a claim for any of my stuff was denied.......
> ...



Agree with what you said, but if I already have a system like Canon which I know how to use as a tool, and a claim for a point and shoot gets denied, I'm not going to change my whole system around because of that. If he only had one other Canon, I can see that, but not a whole system. And like others said, it's not his camera, so he can't be sure it wasn't accidentally banged around and damaged. It would have been nice of Canon to say how they found out the camera was damaged, but again, to switch systems because of someone else's point and shoot, nah...


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## skitron (Aug 19, 2013)

GmwDarkroom said:


> skitron said:
> 
> 
> > Canon USA told her she dropped the camera and it isn't covered. Problem is (1) it wasn't dropped or knocked around, (2) there is no physical evidence it has been dropped or knocked around - it's mint cosmetically, and (3) the symptoms of the camera are not consistent with Canon USA's claim that it was dropped.
> ...



*No technical explanation whatsoever.* Which is precisely why I 'm not going to do business with them anymore. For me to do business with a company they have to back up their claims with verifiable proof when they refuse to honor what was paid for. Canon USA didn't, so I'm not doing business with them any more and neither are two other people. 

I'm sure Canon USA couldn't care less, and that's their choice, but it's a rather odd business model since honoring their warranty costs them maybe $100 in this case and by not honoring it, they miss out on a bare minimum of at least 2 full frames two APS-C, probably half a dozen L sales as the next upgrade cycles unfold.


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## skitron (Aug 19, 2013)

michi said:


> jdramirez said:
> 
> 
> > michi said:
> ...



Everyone has their own take on things and for me, I'm constantly rotating my gear in and out to minimize cost of ownership. Meaning I buy when price is right, use it a while, sell before an upgrade cycle and price-of-current plummet. Since the bodies are on a staggered introduction cycle it works out pretty good. It also makes it pretty easy to switch back and forth between systems. And since I'm not a fan-boy of either system, I don't really care which system I shoot with from an operator perspective.

And to be clear, I'm not bailing because of somebody else's point-n-shoot, I'm bailing because Canon USA has demonstrated for a second time they are not the kind of company I'm willing to do business with. The first was for a 3 months out of warranty repair on one of my L lenses that I paid for, sent back twice, and still have the original problem, and Canon USA says "too bad".

LOL, I suppose the pragmatic lesson here is if you want to use Canon gear, you should go ahead and buy grey market or from non-authorized resellers, and save the $ because it doesn't make sense to pay for a warranty they won't honor.


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## jdramirez (Aug 19, 2013)

do you really suspect that Nikon is going to be that much better to deal with? Maybe sigma or tamron because they can't afford to alienate their customer base, but I doubt they are giving away free service either. 

having said all that, I have heard of times where someone sends in something for service to Canon and they do the work for free even though it is it of warranty. so they aren't all bad.


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## skitron (Aug 19, 2013)

jdramirez said:


> do you really suspect that Nikon is going to be that much better to deal with? Maybe sigma or tamron because they can't afford to alienate their customer base, but I doubt they are giving away free service either.
> 
> having said all that, I have heard of times where someone sends in something for service to Canon and they do the work for free even though it is it of warranty. so they aren't all bad.



I have no idea whether Nikon is better, worse, the same, whatever. But for me anyway, continuing to do business with Canon USA is not going to happen due to two poor experiences - one my own and another a family member. 

In my case an L lens only 3 months out of warranty (which they adamantly stated would not be covered) so for me, I can rule out that Canon USA covers expensive items just recently going out of warranty. Which is fair enough, I agreed to pay for repairs, the problem is repairs to fix the actual problem were not performed and Canon USA was not helpful to resolve the issue, yet still has my repair payment. 

In mother in law's case, I can rule out that Canon USA covers items that are in warranty, and fails to provide any explanation that is meaningful as to why they refuse to perform their obligation.

So that's my experiences and why I won't do business with them anymore. Others may have direct first hand experiences that are better.

And again, the pragmatic lesson is just buy gray market or non-authorized reseller if you want to shoot Canon and don't waste money on warranties, either first party or third party. And as for me, I'll just rotate this gear out when the time is right and migrate to another vendor.


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## sagittariansrock (Aug 19, 2013)

My experience with Canon repair has been very good, and I am not even a CPS member or a high-volume customer. They even replaced a T3i AFTER the warranty was over. I would just call them and ask for explanations. They seemed to be very common-sense oriented people and not rule-oriented over there. 
Did they receive the camera and then email or mail you their decision? Or did you actually speak to someone?
Finally, if opting out of Canon hurts oneself more then that might not be the best decision, especially considering this is pretty likely with Nikon as well.
In any case, this post just doesn't jive with my experience with Canon...


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 19, 2013)

skitron said:


> jdramirez said:
> 
> 
> > do you really suspect that Nikon is going to be that much better to deal with? Maybe sigma or tamron because they can't afford to alienate their customer base, but I doubt they are giving away free service either.
> ...



According to Lensrentals' data, you can expect to wait nearly 5 times as long for Nikon to fix what's broken, whether you have to pay for it or not. Oh, and if you do have to pay for it, you'll pay more.


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## skitron (Aug 19, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> skitron said:
> 
> 
> > jdramirez said:
> ...



Yup, there may be better choices than Nikon too. I'm certainly not married to that idea...


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## awinphoto (Aug 19, 2013)

I've never had issue with Canon Repairs, but I am a CPS member. When it comes down to everything, i've had things fixed/repaired even out of warranty. As far as camera droppings, keep in mind that like a minor car crash, even if you dont have cosmetic damage in a low impact fender bender, there sometimes is damage under the hood or frame or... How many times have you heard of a car that looks great but a mechanic opening the hood can see where repairs or bent frame from a prior accident. Also little things, especially when a lower quality construction camera can have more damage from less impacts than lets say my 5d mark 3 with mag alloy construction. Ever drive on bumpy roads, pot holes, off roading, leave camera in the trunk, floorboards, etc? Ever drop the camera even a few inches from a table or if its in a purse, drop the purse a foot to the floor? You may not need to drop it from 4-5 feet to break a camera... sometimes it could be a lot less.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 19, 2013)

awinphoto said:


> You may not need to drop it from 4-5 feet to break a camera... sometimes it could be a lot less.



Or just the right (or wrong, in this case) angle. I've dropped my iPhone many times from waist height onto wood, tile and pavement, with no damage. But one such drop from a lower height (getting out of a car) broke the rear glass. Fortunately only a $30 fix.


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## ECRoyce (Aug 19, 2013)

I think it's a rather harsh reflex decision for not fully knowing what may or may not have happened to someone else's ~$100+ point-and-shoot camera to write off a company's product line entirely. I'll assume you ARE either the aforementioned son-in-law, or more likely the husband of this person, not just another party familiar with these people to feel so personally injured in this particular case. 

Working with electronics in my 9-5, I see so many things get broken due to misuse or lack of basic care, (in my personal life also with family, friends, etc) and the person rarely admits to what really happened, just out of a normal human tendency to not want to look foolish. You see enough of it however, and you know better, but you ask anyway, half out of seeing if they will actually fess up to it, and half out of a way to entertain yourself. I'm sure you may have a little bias of wanting to believe this person's side of the story, but like others have said, if it hasn't been in her possession 100% of the time, there is no way to be absolutely certain someone else may not have bumped it and damaged it and covered that fact up without her knowing. 

I have personally dropped my Sony P&S onto a hard concrete floor, which when it happened I was almost sure it was going to be an end-of-life event, but after reattaching the doors, batteries, etc, it came right back on. I would think Canon would have similar build in their P&Ss and to cause functional damage would have to be pretty hard as well. Unless absolutely cheaply built, things really don't spontaneously destroy themselves anymore without a good reason.

I don't think that if I had spent enough money on a brand new higher end phone (ie. equiv to a 5D3, 70-200 lens, etc) from a company like Motorola, then had a support problem with a small accessory like a charger (ie. relative spending equiv to a SX150), that I would be talking about liquidating the phone, or never spending another penny, as a response.

Can you update this post when you plan on putting your gear on eBay?
5D3, 70-200 f/2.8L IS II, 200L II f/2.8, 100L, 24-105L, Sigma 50/1.4, Rokinon 35/1.4, Canon TC 1.4x III

No offense implied, and when you calm down, I think you'll come to your senses.


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## Don Haines (Aug 19, 2013)

jdramirez said:


> michi said:
> 
> 
> > Gosh, if I changed companies every time a claim for any of my stuff was denied.......
> ...


I had an Olympus E-510 that died the day after the warranty ran out.... how's that for timing! They fixed it for free.


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## Don Haines (Aug 19, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> According to Lensrentals' data, you can expect to wait nearly 5 times as long for Nikon to fix what's broken, whether you have to pay for it or not. Oh, and if you do have to pay for it, you'll pay more.


Fourty days for Olympus! And the sad thing is, it's an improvement....


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## wsheldon (Aug 19, 2013)

Don Haines said:


> Fourty days for Olympus! And the sad thing is, it's an improvement....



Gotta say, though, Olympus in Hoboken, NJ, fixed my E-PL2 mirrorless in <2 weeks, including transit time. Spring-loaded flash pop-up button broke under warranty, so that required body disassembly and swapping parts. And that was <1 month after Hurricane Sandy flooded that area.

Not doubting Roger's data, but I guess YMMV.


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## barracuda (Aug 19, 2013)

I'm sorry to hear about your bad experiences with Canon USA. I, on the other hand, have had nothing but good experiences.

I'm a CPS member, so I routinely send in my equipment as part of their free "Clean and Check" program. I once sent in my 70-200 and asked if there was something they could do about the auto-focus and IS switches on the lens because I felt they were too easily switched out of position. When I got the lens back they had replaced the switch panel with a new one free of charge even though it was beyond the scope of the program. By the way, I sent in the lens on a Monday and got it back on Friday of the same week, which has been a typical turnaround time.

Perhaps the pragmatic lesson is to become a CPS member if you own enough equipment to qualify. I cannot speak about warranty service as a non-CPS member, but I find that the CPS program (Gold member) pays for itself with the 2 free clean and checks, 30% off repairs, free return shipping, and most importantly, excellent customer service.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 19, 2013)

skitron said:


> Yup, there may be better choices than Nikon too. I'm certainly not married to that idea...


 
Maybe Sony?

http://www.photozone.de/

Tests delayed due to defects and miserable service ... (yes, we are buying many lenses just for testing):

Defective LensProblemService CenterLast StatusNow waiting for ...Sony E 35mm f/1.8 OSSCentering DefectSony AustraliaDoneit took ... 74 days 
 
well, maybe not


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## LSV (Aug 19, 2013)

I'm sorry for your bad experience. My suggestion is to write a letter to Canon, calmly and clearly explaining your situation before selling off your great gears. Many years ago I had to send my Canon G3 for repair and it was a couple of weeks after the warranty has expired. I included a letter with the camera explaining that I had not used the camera for a few months and the LCD had died while it was still under warranty, but I did not find out until after the warranty has expired. All of this was absolutely true and I was hoping they would believe me and honor the warranty, although I understood and would have accepted their denial. Happily, they fixed it for free under warranty and the G3 still works to this day. I've bought quite a few Canon DSLRs and lenses since then and very satisfied with Canon over the years.


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## distant.star (Aug 19, 2013)

.
"Hope for the best. Expect the worst."

Lower your expectations. Probably psychologically healthier to go around pleasantly surprised than belligerently disappointed.


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## Meh (Aug 19, 2013)

skitron said:


> and fails to provide any explanation that is meaningful as to why they refuse to perform their obligation.



Except that they did provide an explanation, they inspected and determined that the camera had been damaged by the user. I'm not saying that they are right or wrong in their assessment, but they did tell you why they are denying the warranty claim.

If they took anyone at their word that a product wasn't dropped or otherwise damaged by the owner, it wouldn't be just $100 as you stated, it would be millions because everyone who dropped their camera would send it back and claim "it just suddenly stopped working".


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## Jay Khaos (Aug 19, 2013)

You have to keep in mind when you call support, their minimum wage people dont give a shit about you—and probably dont care about Canon beyond receiving their paycheck. Of course there might be some outliers, but in general if you go in from this POV you'll get better results.

I would have called back mentioning that their must have been a mistake and that you need help. Acting frustrated, making threats, asking for managers, pointing fingers and name dropping how much gear or how long you've been a customer isn't going to get you far. It's just pointless, and they hear it all day. (I assume you must have mentioned all your L glass, like you did in this post) At that point, you've only guaranteed that they will refuse to do anything for you that they dont absolutely have to do. Instead, act concerned about the issue and come at it from the POV that you are relieved to be in contact with the rep and be thankful whenever they do say anything helpful (because everyone likes feel accomplished—especially phone reps, since its a break from the 95% of angry callers). You might even get them offering up solutions you didnt know were possible if you play your cards well enough.

I'm not saying dont be mad—I would be too. But when you show it you get no where (I can speak from experience there lol).


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## skitron (Aug 19, 2013)

Meh said:


> skitron said:
> 
> 
> > and fails to provide any explanation that is meaningful as to why they refuse to perform their obligation.
> ...



Telling the user they are a liar is not a *meaningful* explanation.

A *meaningful* explanation would be something like "the reason it zooms to the long end by itself and then you can't control it is because the ____ is broken (or malfunctioning). This typically happens because ____."

At a minimum, a *meaningful* explanation acknowledges the symptons, identifies a tangible cause, and postulates a reason why it would happen. 

No?

When I hear "you dropped it" as the only explanation as to why a cosmetically mint camera that hasn't been dropped isn't going to be covered, the most likely explanation for that is that they probably didn't bother to even inspect it beyond maybe turning it on and seeing that its malfunctioning.


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## skitron (Aug 19, 2013)

Jay Khaos said:


> (I assume you must have mentioned all your L glass, like you did in this post) At that point, you've only guaranteed that they will refuse to do anything for you that they dont absolutely have to do



I've not been involved except to hear the story, As for any sort of threats or rudeness, the user didn't go down that road.

I shared my part here because to me that is the value of boards like this, to share experiences about what is good and what is not so good. I have a couple of bad experiences, others are pleased as punch, airing all of it here gives whoever wants to read a little more info to work with for themselves.


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## zim (Aug 19, 2013)

In your first post you say

“First Canon USA implicitly [implied] calls her a liar”

In your post #32 you say

“Telling the user they are a liar”

If whoever she was talking to explicitly said she was lying (hopefully you have name) I would write a letter of complaint specifically on that issue and send it recorded.


As for the camera, in the UK anyway we have something called Citizens Advice I don’t know if you have anything similar, anyway without resorting to a lawyer or small claims court they will (neutrally) help with disputes like this, I had a situation a while a go where they wrote a letter confirming the issue I had with a retailer and reminding them of their responsibilities under trading law. The matter was resolved very very quickly. I believe the letter head alone was enough for them to adjust their position.
Hopefully you could do something like this.

Good luck and don’t let the red mist get in the way!


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## sagittariansrock (Aug 20, 2013)

If I was in the OP's place, I'd call Canon Service back and ask them on what basis they determined it was an impact damage. It is a fair question to ask. In fact, I'd write to them so I have a record of their response. 
I can understand being frustrated by poor customer support and wanting to vent, but this is what I'd have done before (and in addition to) expressing myself on this forum. My 2 cents.



barracuda said:


> Perhaps the pragmatic lesson is to become a CPS member if you own enough equipment to qualify.



I have enough equipment, and believe that $ 100 to be well spent, but unfortunately I don't make any money from photography to qualify.


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## jdramirez (Aug 20, 2013)

Do you watch myth busters? they use very simple tools to determine shock trauma. it wouldn't surprise me if there wasn't something even in the cheap cameras that provided this feedback loop.

so if you did go to small claims court or an arbitrator... and Canon provides scientific evidence that there was trauma outside of normal operating conditions, would you then concede and say your mother in law was either lieing or ignorant to the damage caused by another. 

which raises the question, how much information is the consumer entitled to. I don't think they should be required to provide all of that information.


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## jdramirez (Aug 20, 2013)

sagittariansrock said:


> If I was in the OP's place, I'd call Canon Service back and ask them on what basis they determined it was an impact damage. It is a fair question to ask. In fact, I'd write to them so I have a record of their response.
> I can understand being frustrated by poor customer support and wanting to vent, but this is what I'd have done before (and in addition to) expressing myself on this forum. My 2 cents.
> 
> 
> ...



sell some boudoir photos of your neighbor to your wife. done.


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## sagittariansrock (Aug 20, 2013)

jdramirez said:


> sagittariansrock said:
> 
> 
> > If I was in the OP's place, I'd call Canon Service back and ask them on what basis they determined it was an impact damage. It is a fair question to ask. In fact, I'd write to them so I have a record of their response.
> ...



Good one, but USCIS would be on my ass ;D (I am on work visa)


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