# Help with choosing a soft box



## Slashp (Dec 6, 2012)

Hi all,

I want to go to the next step with portrait photography (indoor or outdoor) and I am about to buy my first lightning gear:

- Canon Speedlite 430 ExII
- ETTL trigger yn622c (http://flashhavoc.com/yn622c_review/)

The two additional things that I want are a light stand and a softbox (no umbrella) for the Speedlite. There are so many different models on internet that it is difficult to choose. Any experience with some good ones (not too expensive...) ?

The ones that look interesting so far:
- *Westcott Apollo 28"* http://www.adorama.com/WEARF.html?utm_term=Other&utm_medium=Affiliate&utm_campaign=Other&utm_source=rflaid63799
A bit too expensive for me

- *Fotodiox Pro 24x36" Umbrella Softbox * http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Umbrella-Softbox-Speedlite-600EX-RT/dp/B008CBCWIC/ref=sr_1_23?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1354681051&sr=1-23&keywords=softbox+speedlite+kit

- *CowboyStudio Pro 20-Inch x 20-Inch* http://www.amazon.com/CowboyStudio-20-Inch-Quick-Speedlite-Softbox/dp/B00ACR9X9U/ref=sr_1_61?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1354818910&sr=1-61&keywords=softbox+speedlite+kit

Any advice or any other suggestion would be greatly appreciated.
Thank you,
John


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## Ewinter (Dec 6, 2012)

Hi there! controlling the light is one of those aspects where photography really starts getting interesting. 
As someone once pointed out to me, a Hasselblad is no different to a point and shoot if you're in a pitch dark room. His advice was to get the light right, then the lens then the camera.

Anyway, as for softboxes, I see you've gone with umbrella types for the most part. They are SO much less hassle than conventional softboxes. what kind of portraits are you going to be doing?


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## Slashp (Dec 6, 2012)

I will do mostly my family and kids indoor (but will also use the flash as a fill light outdoors)

John


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## unfocused (Dec 6, 2012)

Check used items on eBay. Many people seem to buy softboxes, use them for awhile and then sell them.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 7, 2012)

unfocused said:


> Many people seem to buy softboxes, use them for awhile and then sell them.



Others buy some, use them for a while, and then buy more.


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## Cptn Rigo (Dec 7, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Many people seem to buy softboxes, use them for awhile and then sell them.
> ...


+ 2...

I currently have 3 softboxes

http://www.amazon.com/Fotodiox-Flash-2436-Ca-Diffuser-Speedring-Speedlite/dp/B005ODJF4U/ref=sr_1_5?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1354840770&sr=1-5&keywords=fotodiox+softbox+speedlight


This is the brand I bought, super easy to setup, fold and unfold, it uses a structure system like an umbrella, it has an inner diffuser and the cost is relatively low.

I have a 24x36, a 12x56 and a 36 octobox,


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## lucuias (Dec 7, 2012)

Kids indoor 1 430exII may be enough,but if whole family with consist of more than 7-8 people.I afraid you may need 2 flash light.
Besides,softbox at the size of 40x40cm does cut down the power of our flash light by around 1 stop.The larger the softbox the greater the light lost but it does improves the quality of light.


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## agierke (Dec 7, 2012)

westcott makes some really good products for the price points. they are my preferred light modifiers. yes...there are better out there (plumes) but you will pay an arm and a leg for them. i have found that other brands that are cheaper than westcott tend to suffer in quality and functionality. 

on a side note, its not quite a softbox but Photek's Softlighter series is just about the most versatile modifier out there and very affordable. they can break down with heavy use but they are so cheap for the versatility that they offer that its a must have for every photographer i know. i have all three sizes (36", 46", and 60") and plan on buying a second set soon.


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## ChilledXpress (Dec 7, 2012)

Lastolite rocks but the price of entry cause some to choke... they are choice though. After using them they put others to shame, are built to last and worht every penny.


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## TrumpetPower! (Dec 7, 2012)

Considering you're going to be going through the hassle of setting up softboxes on stands, I would strongly recommend that you should go with a studio flash setup instead of a hotshoe flash. You'll get a hell of a lot more bang for your buck.

Hotshoe flashes are great for what they're designed to do, which is to be something that you can mount on top of the camera. But you pay a premium for that type of miniaturization, in terms of both performance and price.

A Paul C. Buff Alien Bees B800 costs about as much as that 430 EX II, and it puts out so much more light that it's not even funny. The Buff Einstein flash, their flagship model, is cheaper than the 580 EX II and is ludicrously far superior in every way except that you can't stick it on top of your camera.

Don't fret too much if you're going to be shooting at locations without power. There are battery packs for most studio flashes. Buff sells the Vagabond which is good for hundreds, if not thousands, of pops with the type of setup you're describing on a single charge.

I'll also note that softboxes only work their magic when they're so close to the subject that you're having trouble figuring out how to shoot around them. It's a geometry thing...a 2' softbox is going to have to be no more than 2' away from the subject to be truly effective, preferably less, and it's not going to light up more than the person's face. a 2' softbox at the photographer's position of a 10' working distance isn't going to be significantly different from on-camera flash. A 5' softbox 5' away from the subject is going to be as effective as a 2' softbox 2' away, but it'll light up the whole person...and you can put that 5' softbox 3' away and get some amazing soft and even light wrapping all the way 'round your subject.

Even better?

Buff sells parabolic reflectors...basically high-tech umbrellas. And they go from 4' across to over 7' across, and they make diffusers for them that make the light very similar to a softbox....

Cheers,

b&


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## pwp (Dec 7, 2012)

You might consider something with more get-up-and-go than a 430EX for what you're proposing. Punching a little 430 through a softbox or umbrella won't leave you with much useful output, especially outdoors. And your recycle times will be uncomfortably long. The 430 has an output of 30-40w/s, the 580 is around 60-65w/s. 

For outdoor portraits in sunlight I often need to crank up my PCB Einsteins http://www.paulcbuff.com/e640.php up close to their maximum output of 640w/s. Einsteins are great but if you have severe budget restrictions, the PCB Alien Bees might be worth a look http://www.paulcbuff.com/alienbees.php. Skip straight past the lower powered models and go straight to the B1600. For working on location, PCB has extraordinary value battery packs http://www.paulcbuff.com/vagabond.php For umbrella/softbox check out the PLM's http://www.paulcbuff.com/plm.php. 

The 430EX is a decent little flash but I think your expectations of what it is capable of are somewhat out of reality. If your are serious about the business you're starting up, do it properly and turn up to your shoots with equipment that will do the job. Even a 580EXII or 600 EX-RT will struggle in sunlight unless you are up very close to your subject...and that's without a modifier.

For portrait work it's important to get a flow going with your subject, and to have the capacity to shoot immediately without that mood-smashing wait while your flash recycles. Speedlight = slow. 

You'll need a speedlight, and should have one...but be 100% aware of its limitations.

-PW


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## M.ST (Dec 7, 2012)

For speedlites check out the lastolite stuff.


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## Slashp (Dec 7, 2012)

TrumpetPower! said:


> Considering you're going to be going through the hassle of setting up softboxes on stands, I would strongly recommend that you should go with a studio flash setup instead of a hotshoe flash. You'll get a hell of a lot more bang for your buck.
> 
> Hotshoe flashes are great for what they're designed to do, which is to be something that you can mount on top of the camera. But you pay a premium for that type of miniaturization, in terms of both performance and price.
> 
> ...





pwp said:


> You might consider something with more get-up-and-go than a 430EX for what you're proposing. Punching a little 430 through a softbox or umbrella won't leave you with much useful output, especially outdoors. And your recycle times will be uncomfortably long. The 430 has an output of 30-40w/s, the 580 is around 60-65w/s.
> 
> For outdoor portraits in sunlight I often need to crank up my PCB Einsteins http://www.paulcbuff.com/e640.php up close to their maximum output of 640w/s. Einsteins are great but if you have severe budget restrictions, the PCB Alien Bees might be worth a look http://www.paulcbuff.com/alienbees.php. Skip straight past the lower powered models and go straight to the B1600. For working on location, PCB has extraordinary value battery packs http://www.paulcbuff.com/vagabond.php For umbrella/softbox check out the PLM's http://www.paulcbuff.com/plm.php.
> 
> ...



Thank you both for your feedback. Just to refine a bit, all this is not about opening a business at all but just getting a foot into lighting (which is new for me) to take better pictures of my 2 kids. I wanted to start with a 430 Ex because it is quite cheap and I know that if I move further into lighting, it will always be useful to have a portable flash for rim or as a background light.

Alien bees look great but I won't be able to use them outdoors since I already carry all the baby gear when I go out (stroller, diapers, ...  ). Moving forward when I master a single flash, I may add more lights but it's always a tradeoff between buying more lenses, lights, ND filter,...

John


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## pwp (Dec 7, 2012)

Slashp said:


> Thank you both for your feedback. Just to refine a bit, all this is not about opening a business at all but just getting a foot into lighting (which is new for me) to take better pictures of my 2 kids. I wanted to start with a 430 Ex because it is quite cheap and I know that if I move further into lighting, it will always be useful to have a portable flash for rim or as a background light.
> John


OK I get the picture... Just get the 430 or a pre-owned 580 and an on-camera modifier like the Demb FlipIt http://www.dembflashproducts.com/ Skillfully used fill-flash can have great effect, but not at all obvious as a flash shot. There are good numbers of 580EXII flashes on the used market as people upgrade to 600 EX-RT. I recently got an as-new 580EXII for _way _less than a new 430. Drill into the Speedlights CR threads and learn a lot. http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?board=58.0 Then shoot a lot. There's no better teacher than experience.

-PW


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## angox (Dec 7, 2012)

I am using Lastolite Ezybox 24 inch, and so far it's been a satisfactory experience with it. I bought it as a kit - the softbox comes with a bracket to attach your flash, stand (manfrotto), swivel head (I think it's also Manfrotto, not sure though), and an extension handle (thought this is rather too short IMO).


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 7, 2012)

M.ST said:


> For speedlites check out the lastolite stuff.



+1. I've got a couple of the Lastolite 24" Ezyboxes and one of the 'on-camera' Ezybox Speedlite softboxes. Robust construction, easy to set up, but not cheap relative to eBay, etc. offerings.


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## KitsVancouver (Dec 7, 2012)

TrumpetPower! said:


> Considering you're going to be going through the hassle of setting up softboxes on stands, I would strongly recommend that you should go with a studio flash setup instead of a hotshoe flash. You'll get a hell of a lot more bang for your buck.
> 
> Hotshoe flashes are great for what they're designed to do, which is to be something that you can mount on top of the camera. But you pay a premium for that type of miniaturization, in terms of both performance and price.
> 
> ...


Excellent information from you and the poster below. These forums are so valuable when there is experienced feedback such as above.

I own 5 600EX-RTs and was planning on using 2/3 bundled into a 4 foot softbox. From the research I've done, I've realized that the flashes won't likely put out enough power for the softbox. 

I'm wondering if anyone has had experience using the Einstein with Speedlights. I'm thinking I will either need to use a PC sync cord for the Einstein and RF wireless for the Speedlights. I'd love a shoot-through wireless solution which I can mount on my camera which controls the Einstein and then have the 600EX or ST-E3 mounted on top. Has anyone attempted that?


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## ocabj (Dec 7, 2012)

KitsVancouver said:


> I'm wondering if anyone has had experience using the Einstein with Speedlights. I'm thinking I will either need to use a PC sync cord for the Einstein and RF wireless for the Speedlights. I'd love a shoot-through wireless solution which I can mount on my camera which controls the Einstein and then have the 600EX or ST-E3 mounted on top. Has anyone attempted that?



If you're working indoors, you can just toggle the optical slave sensor on the Einstein so it triggers on the 600 EX (E-TTL pre-flash turned off, of course). When I'm at home and I need to take a quick product shot, I often just throw a 580 EX II on my camera instead of breaking out PocketWizards or the 12 foot pc-sync cord.


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## TrumpetPower! (Dec 7, 2012)

KitsVancouver said:


> I'm wondering if anyone has had experience using the Einstein with Speedlights. I'm thinking I will either need to use a PC sync cord for the Einstein and RF wireless for the Speedlights. I'd love a shoot-through wireless solution which I can mount on my camera which controls the Einstein and then have the 600EX or ST-E3 mounted on top. Has anyone attempted that?



In the attached shot, I used three lights.

The main light on the artist was an Einstein with a 7" reflector and a honeycomb grid, probably 20°.

I had a SoLux halogen task lamp aimed at his hands and used a slow enough shutter to get a bit of blur in the saw.

And I had a 580 EX II with a red gel lighting the saw blade from behind to (almost) stop its motion.

The Einstein was triggered with its plug-in radio receiver.

The 580 EX II was triggered with one of the same CyberSync receivers that you would use for an Alien Bees light, except (of course) I used the PC connection rather than the phone jack.

Cheers,

b&


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## Slashp (Dec 8, 2012)

Thank you all for your inputs 

It is tough to decide between one Alien bee and a strobe


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## jonathan7007 (Dec 8, 2012)

To TrumpetPower:

Love the shot. The reference to "red 580EXii" implies that the shot was originally intended to be seen in color, right? So, looking closely at the saw body and blade I have to guess: the 580 was attached to the motor body of the saw but set so that the light angled back at the bottom of the blade. A grid or snoot might have been attached. Without the color cue it's hard to know how much red light was cast forward toward the viewer.

Client? Self-assigned? Tell us about the idea you were asked [asked yourself] to create.

I love doing setups like this!

jonathan7007


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## Ewinter (Dec 8, 2012)

i'd like to say in the UK that an alien bee or einstein could be an alternative to the speedlights...


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## TrumpetPower! (Dec 9, 2012)

jonathan7007 said:


> To TrumpetPower:
> 
> Love the shot. The reference to "red 580EXii" implies that the shot was originally intended to be seen in color, right? So, looking closely at the saw body and blade I have to guess: the 580 was attached to the motor body of the saw but set so that the light angled back at the bottom of the blade. A grid or snoot might have been attached. Without the color cue it's hard to know how much red light was cast forward toward the viewer.
> 
> ...



Thanks, Jonathan.

The artist is Dad, Gary Goren, and the portrait is at least a publicity shot and will likely also make an appearance in a coffee table book of his art that I'm working on. I'll attach a shot of one of his works, the first one that's actually going to go in the book, that I finally was able to get this past week.

The hotshoe flash was mounted to a light stand and positioned just on the other side of (and hidden by) the saw's swivel post on the left side of the frame. No grid or snoot; just a piece of red gel taped over the head.

I had a vague thought of using the red as a bit of mood lighting in addition to its ability to freeze the motion of the saw blade, but it was much more useful to be able to selectively adjust the exposure of that part of the scene in post using the channel mixer in Adobe Camera Raw.

Cheers,

b&


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## jonathan7007 (Dec 14, 2012)

TrumpetPower,
A wonderful way to honor his skills. Wonderful to do this together with him. 

I attach a shot I did among other portraits of craftspeople featured in a brochure about fine printing papers from Monadnock, a New England specialty papermaking company.

To the OP: several softboxes used, with Norman packs. 120 Plus-X film, Hasselblad with the 80mm. There were three, because the light had some small amout of fill toward the back of the scene. Two pointed at the subject. 

At that time Chimera was the undisputed leader. The ring system attached to the metal head casing was always the strongest arrangement and allowed better tilt control. Some of my current units are a little more dodgy about holding their angle chosen adjustment when pointing down. We didn't have to get inside the box after finishing the setup because power was changed at the power pack. In this dark workshop modeling lights are a godsend. No auto focus!

We went to the workshops of a flutemaker, canoe builder, too. Great assignment. A grandfather clock and a canoe came back to the studio for beauty shots. The futemaker said "No way" (gold) and we shot that gold instrument in his basement. More softbox use!

jonathan7007

yikes-edited to get rid of some of the dust on the scan. Sorry, everyone. gotta re-do that...


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