# The 5D Mark III Megapixel Count? [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 20, 2012)

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<strong>Less is more?

</strong>The new Canon mantra? A long while ago, we had heard the next version of the 5D Mark III would sport a 30+ megapixel file. We’ve heard recently that the <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2011/11/nikon-d800-outed/">Nikon D800</a> would be announced with a 36mp sensor.</p>
<p>The latest I’ve heard about the 5D Mark III’s sensor, and it comes from multiple places. Is we’re going to see it remain in the neighbourhood of 21mp. I’ve been told both 21mp or 22mp from various people.</p>
<p><strong>Announcement?

</strong>The most consistent mention is March for an announcement. I think they’ll announce a 5D mark III type camera after the February 7, 2012  <a href="http://nikonrumors.com/2012/01/13/the-next-nikon-product-announcement-will-be-on-february-7th-2012.aspx/">announcement of the Nikon D800</a>.</p>
<p><strong>4K EOS Camera

</strong>The <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2011/12/in-development-canon-cinema-eos-4k-dslr/">announced development of a 4K Canon EOS DSLR</a> could make some specs that come out hard to decipher. I believe a high megapixel EOS body is coming. The question is whether it would be the 5D3 or the new 4K DSLR.</p>
<p><a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/583953-REG/Canon_2764B003_EOS_5D_Mark_II.html/BI/2466/KBID/3296"><em>5D Mark II at B&H for $2169</em></a></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
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## D_Rochat (Jan 20, 2012)

I'm very curious to see high res images with the modest mp Canons coming out. 

Kind of off topic (but not), but I always get a kick out of people asking how many mp my dslr has. When I tell them 15mp, they give an unimpressed "oh" and comment about their point and shoot being the same or close to 15mp as well. I used to try and kindly explain that it's not all about mp, but I just smile and nod now.


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## Ricku (Jan 20, 2012)

Yes yes yes! Please let it be so! 

I am dreaming of a 20 - 25 MP dynamic range monster. Something that allows photographers to underexpose "like crazy", and still be able to bring all the shadowed areas back to light, without sacrificing too much IQ.

This is one of my favorite shooting styles. Works quite well on the 5D2, but the results could be better!


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## BlueMixWhite (Jan 20, 2012)

The 5Dmk3 news is getting hotter and hotter day by day.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jan 20, 2012)

Wow so let me get this straight it will have 5fps, not even as much as the 50D and not quite enough to really be even a decent low-end compromise for action, it won't even have as many AF points as the 7D and it might just be 5D2 AF with the outer points no x-type wow big change for nearing a decade and it won't even bump up the MP so no increase in reach or detail.

So why again am I not just sticking with my 5D2 or for finally for the first time ever truly seriously eying Nikon?

Yeah it should have better video but so should any upcoming 70D or 7D2.

So what we spend another nearly $3000 to upgrade to outer x-points and 1 extra fps and better video and a touch cleaner image and this is our FF body for the next four years?

When Nikon appears ready to offer 6fps with grip, top of the line pro AF, better video, and 36MP?

The sad thing is Canon has had the tech to blow away the Nikon offerings but they care so much about not hurting themselves internally they don't care if they give away the ship in the process.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jan 20, 2012)

Ricku said:


> Yes yes yes! Please let it be so!
> 
> I am dreaming of a 20 - 25 MP dynamic range monster. Something that allows photographers to underexpose "like crazy", and still be able to bring all the shadowed areas back to light, without sacrificing too much IQ.
> 
> This is one of my favorite shooting styles. Works quite well on the 5D2, but the results could be better!



That has little to do with the MP count. They could go to 8MP and still have ugly deep low ISO shadows if they can't fix up their ADC readout system.


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## Gcon (Jan 20, 2012)

I'm happy with 21MP. I'd be happy with 18MP. I can pano-stitch my landscapes in portrait-aspect chunks so long as there's little to no movement in the scene, and that gives many more MP. For single frame grabs like events - then 18MP stuff is plenty. The only reason I'd want more MP is for simulating reach with the crop. Maybe I just buy a longer lens instead?

That's my MP rant. For AF - I'd be more than happy if they had the same # of AP points but did two things - made them all X-type, and spread them a fair bit wider. So Canon - if you gimp the AF one more time in the 5D range, I'm afraid I'm probably out.

As for weather sealing, the 5D2 should be made to withstand heavy rain. Landscape shooters / hikers don't need a big-ass portrait grip to add bulk and weight. The 5D2 is a great size for hiking compared to the 1D line, so it should be sealed accordingly. How many out there have been burned by the poor sealing on the 5D2? I know quite a few.

If Canon can address these issues I'll buy two 5DIII. If there's more of the same, then well... the dark side awaits!


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## briansquibb (Jan 20, 2012)

Why not use the AF from the 1Ds3?


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## pakosouthpark (Jan 20, 2012)

we'll probably see a new 4k DSLR for the really high MP. i cant wait for the announcement for full specs! hopefully in march!


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## motorhead (Jan 20, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> Why not use the AF from the 1Ds3?



Brian,

As I see it the only problem is that Canon need to maintain a "quality" gap between the 1D/1Ds and their "lower" offerings. Its not so much a cost issue as a perceived difference in the ranges.

Personally I'd love to see the 5D3 with the Eos-3 45 Eye-controlled AF points.


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## stefsan (Jan 20, 2012)

Gcon said:


> I'm happy with 21MP. I'd be happy with 18MP. I can pano-stitch my landscapes in portrait-aspect chunks so long as there's little to no movement in the scene, and that gives many more MP. For single frame grabs like events - then 18MP stuff is plenty. The only reason I'd want more MP is for simulating reach with the crop. Maybe I just buy a longer lens instead?



I would not mind a few MP more but as long as the image quality is better with 18-21 MP I happily chose quality over MP/resolution. 

That's my MP rant. For AF - I'd be more than happy if they had the same # of AP points but did two things - made them all X-type, and spread them a fair bit wider. So Canon - if you gimp the AF one more time in the 5D range, I'm afraid I'm probably out.



Gcon said:


> As for weather sealing, the 5D2 should be made to withstand heavy rain. Landscape shooters / hikers don't need a big-ass portrait grip to add bulk and weight. The 5D2 is a great size for hiking compared to the 1D line, so it should be sealed accordingly. How many out there have been burned by the poor sealing on the 5D2? I know quite a few.



As a landscape shooter who takes his photos mostly on hikes and in changing weather conditions I couldn't agree more! Give the cam a decent weather sealing (at least 7D style) that can withstand rain and snow.



Gcon said:


> If Canon can address these issues I'll buy two 5DIII. If there's more of the same, then well... the dark side awaits!



Yeah, if they manage to put a decent AF system in (again, 7D style would be OK with me) I would be in the market for this camera.


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## briansquibb (Jan 20, 2012)

motorhead said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > Why not use the AF from the 1Ds3?
> ...



I understand what you mean - however the AF on the 1Ds3 is much the same as the 7D, with just a couple of extras - it would put a gap between the semi pro 5DIII and the consumer 7D without treading on the 1DX


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## Canon-F1 (Jan 20, 2012)

Ricku said:


> Yes yes yes! Please let it be so!
> 
> I am dreaming of a 20 - 25 MP dynamic range monster. Something that allows photographers to underexpose "like crazy", and still be able to bring all the shadowed areas back to light, without sacrificing too much IQ.
> 
> This is one of my favorite shooting styles. Works quite well on the 5D2, but the results could be better!



expose to the RIGHT is what you must do with digital cameras. 
otherwise you will always lose a good portion of the tonal range.

no sensor or crazy amount of DR will change that as long as the sensor (A/D) output is not linear.

http://www.luminous-landscape.com/tutorials/expose-right.shtml

you shooting style is just wasting a ton of information.


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## gmrza (Jan 20, 2012)

Canon Rumors said:


> The most consistent mention is March for an announcement.



I've said before - I believe Canon will announce something at the beginning of March to mark the 25th anniversary of the EOS system.

The 5DIII and the 4k DSLR would both be good candidates for a March announcement.

If Canon does stick with 21 to 22 MP, it will be necessary to find some other enhancements over the 5DII that make for a significant upgrade. - One or two more stops of high ISO performance alone will not be enough to convince most users. Canon will need a whole bag of improvements.


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## Canon-F1 (Jan 20, 2012)

gmrza said:


> The 5DIII and the 4k DSLR would both be good candidates for a March announcement.
> 
> If Canon does stick with 21 to 22 MP, it will be necessary to find some other enhancements over the 5DII that make for a significant upgrade. - One or two more stops of high ISO performance alone will not be enough to convince most users. Canon will need a whole bag of improvements.



and what enhancement would 10-15 MP more bring?
that diffraction limitation would raise it´s ugly head earlyer? 

im all for dynamic range enhancements, canon can stick to 21-24 MP if they ask me.


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## Gcon (Jan 20, 2012)

The talk about the 5DIII keeping the MP the same is fantastic. That means there's an even greater chance that their upsell over the 5DII is going to be AF and weather sealing. One can only hope. GPS built into the body would be nice, but fat chance of that I reckon.


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## simonxu11 (Jan 20, 2012)

It's hard to believe Canon will release a 5d mark III with only small improvements, unless there's another body is waiting to be released, such as "3d". Canon did this before, they could put all the new features into the 60D, but they chose to release a new model, the 7D


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## Doodah (Jan 20, 2012)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> That has little to do with the MP count. They could go to 8MP and still have ugly deep low ISO shadows if they can't fix up their ADC readout system.



Canon better pull off some DRAMATIC improvements in dynamic range and high ISO performance if they plan to stay with 21 MP. It'll be quite a blow if the 36 MP D800 has better performance. I expect the D800 to achieve at least 14 eV dynamic range (on DXOMark test) going by what the D3X/D7000 can do currently. I can't imaging how the 1DX/5D3 is going to top that.


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## traveller (Jan 20, 2012)

I can't see the point of a 21MP sensor; it's not that different in resolution to the 18MP sensor fitted in the 1D X, but would mean that Canon would incur all the extra costs developing a new sensor and fabrication facility. Surely it would be more cost effective to stick to a single sensor unless there are big resolution (and hence marketing) advantages?


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## JR (Jan 20, 2012)

The more we get info on the new 5D mkIII the more I get puzzled as to how this new model will represent significant improvant over the current mkII or even compete with a D800. I guess we will need to see the full spec list, but if sensor size is about the same, AF is about the same, why change? Is the processor capable to deliver significant improvement using fairly the same hardware as mkII?

Quite an enigma the 5DmkIII is! ???


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## Maui5150 (Jan 20, 2012)

I am fine with what Canon is doing.

There are clearly two paths... There is high ISO performance / more studio / low light - This is the 5DmkX line and FF

There is then a speedier FPS, better suited to moving objects Crop body - which is the 7DMKx line

And if you want both? Go the 1DMKx line.

Not coincidentally the price of a 5DMK III and a 7D MKII combined will be close to... yes... Yes... You got it... The 1DMKX line.

The more I read these threads, the 7D folks want better IQ and the 5D folks want better fps / AF... The amalgamation of both really is a baby 1DMKX, but they pretty much want almost all the features and performance at half the price.

As a 5D MK II owner I would like a little more AF performance and spread, but over all it is fairly solid. If I spent more time shooting action, I would probably have gone more the 7D route, and potentially in the future, will try and pick up a 7D body used for around $1K. I have been very very tempted to sell off my T2i, batteries, grip, and the like for just such a move, but don't want to be caught with out a spare body at the moment. 

I do see Canon introducing a Baby 1DX, maybe the rumored 3D... I believe this will be higher MP, with less FPS and less A/F / ISO than the 1DX line and expect it to be $4k - $4.5K

So I expect the 7D MK II to be a $2K body, a little better IQ, same A/F maybe a little more ISO and some faster FPS but still a 18 MP body.

I expect the 5D MK III to be under 25 MP, still in the 21 - 22 MP range, same A/F points, but all cross points and a bit wider spread, a step up in ISO and around the same FPS. I don't expect the 5D MK II to be a sports camera and this body to be the entry FF and $3K to $3.2K

I expect the 3D line to be 30 MP, High ISO, little lesser A/F than the 1Dx, lesser FPS, and $4K - $4.5K so the differentiation between the 1Dx line will be the 3D has higher MP, but the 1Dx remains the king in ISO, A/F, and FPS. 

1Dx is the all around top
3D line is a little cheaper, little lesser, but still all around
5D line aimed at studio / FF
7D line aimed at sports / crop

1Dx line is aimed at top pros
3D line is aimed at best of both worlds for the next level (i.e. those who currently carry both a 5DMKII and 7D) and the the 5D and 7D lines are for those one a budget who do more of one style shooting than the other. 

Really makes sense to me


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 20, 2012)

It's likely they can promise a 2-stop improvement in ISO noise (jpg, of course) just based on gapless microlenses and Digic5. They'll have to do more than that, I think. My contention is that they will offer improvements, but still maintain differentiation from the 1D X (better than they did with 5DII/1DsIII). So, if it's a 21-24 MP camera, they can bump the AF up a bit (a bit under the 7D), and they'll keep the frame rate low. If it's 30+ MP, less of an AF bump (or none) and an even lower frame rate.


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## alipaulphotography (Jan 20, 2012)

So many people say that the only thing they have a gripe with about their 5d MKII is the autofocus.

I'm pretty sure that will get a fix and then hopefully everyone will be happy. I'd be happy with just 9 sensitive cross types.

Any other improvements would be a bonus.


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## NormanBates (Jan 20, 2012)

traveller said:


> I can't see the point of a 21MP sensor; it's not that different in resolution to the 18MP sensor fitted in the 1D X, but would mean that Canon would incur all the extra costs developing a new sensor and fabrication facility. Surely it would be more cost effective to stick to a single sensor unless there are big resolution (and hence marketing) advantages?



exactly

that's why I'd expect the 5D3 to either have more Mpix (at least 24mpix), or stay at 18mpix and share the sensor from the 1DX... which would be absolutely perfect for me: put that sensor in a 5D2-like body, with just about slightly improved AF and fps, and you should have an overly impressive camera, one which is a huge improvement over the previous model... except at what spec checkers will concentrate on: pixel count, AF point count, and fps

edit: oh, and BTW, for a 4K, a low-pixel-count sensor is what makes most sense; 4K is just about 8mpix, 11mpix if you want to stick to 3:2 sensor aspect ratio


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## BlueMixWhite (Jan 20, 2012)

The situation is current everyone is dead sure the D800 is a combination of 5D and 7D series. This time Nikon is coming back with a strong video capabilities, thus everyone is talking about jumping.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 20, 2012)

Why is everyone dead sure about a product (D800) that hasn't been announced yet?


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## BlueMixWhite (Jan 20, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Why is everyone dead sure about a product (D800) that hasn't been announced yet?



I'm not too sure, but this is what I gather from read in this forum. Maybe expectation from the current D700.


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## Maui5150 (Jan 20, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Why is everyone dead sure about a product (D800) that hasn't been announced yet?



Exactly. I also have not seen a price tag quoted on it either. I am all for letting it:

- Be announced
- Be released
- Actually SEEING the performance. 

- Specs and delivery can be two different things... Compare the Sigma 70-200 f/2.8 versus the Canon model.


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## pen43 (Jan 20, 2012)

I like the rumors of a D800 without AA filter, I want to 5D3 without AA filter.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 20, 2012)

BlueMixWhite said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Why is everyone dead sure about a product (D800) that hasn't been announced yet?
> ...



I'd argue that _nothing_ about the D700 or Nikon's past strategy would lead one to expect them to release a 36 MP FF camera.


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## BornNearDaBayou (Jan 20, 2012)

I can come up with a few of my own theories. I say the 5d III will be around 28MP, as the original rumors suggested. Remember there is SOMEONE out there shooting this prototype, and they have sent information along the way. I say AT LEAST 15 AF points, sticking with a similar diamond pattern, more cross-types, and spread over larger area. ;D

And then you have new metering system, along with new Digic 5 processor. It would be swell if the 5d III also used a Digic 4 just for AF, making the body incorporate two processors. VERY highly unlikely. I know they need to make this body very competitive to keep up with Nikon. Besides, it is their biggest seller and most popular camera. I, for one, still love my 5D II even with its apparent limitations. And these are low-light levels (shadow details, etc.). I do not care about AF so much. 9 AF pts do me just fine. 

My last theory is for the D800. No one really knows the MP count yet. I can promise you if it has 36 MP the ISO performance will SUCK!! Nikon is smarter than this. Besides, it would suck the life out of D3X--and even at $8,500 you better believe there is still a small market for this over-priced beast. Who would buy the D3X for way more money and way less MP? Anyone? I think the D800 will either be 16MP, or 18-21MP. This would leave the D3X as the MP king. Or, the D800 would inherit the sensor of the D3X and the D4X would be 36MP.


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## Orangutan (Jan 20, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> I'd argue that _nothing_ about the D700 or Nikon's past strategy would lead one to expect them to release a 36 MP FF camera.



Didn't NikonRumors claim to have an image from a D800 that was 36MP? Sure, could have been faked.

http://nikonrumors.com/2011/12/17/cropped-nikon-d800-samples-at-high-iso.aspx/


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## Maui5150 (Jan 20, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> BlueMixWhite said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Clearly you are missing the point. The D700 is a 12MP camera. It perfectly goes to reason that the D800 would be a 36MP FF camera. 

Try and keep up Neuro... Shesh. Don't you remember??? When the D300 was out the D500 was rumored to be the 16MP replacement. So why is it so hard to see that the jump from D300 to D700 was... Oh wait... The D700 lost .2 MP...

Still... You are missing the point... What indicates that the D800, will not be a 36MP camera, other than history. Does it not go to reason that if the D4 is 16MP, the D800 will be 36MP.... try and keep up Neuro.


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## EYEONE (Jan 20, 2012)

It would be strange for the D800 to be such a high MP camera. That's what the D4x will be for. There certainly is a place for high MP'ers out there but that is not a void that will be filled by the D800. 

From Nikon, we'll see a D4x and Canon might release a new line. Canon has said from the start "We're combining the 1D and 1Ds". But I don't think I ever really believed that. Combine one line if you like Canon but your just going to have to start another line to make up for it. The 1Dx is a little lopsided and more fills the role of 1D replacement than 1Ds replacement.

For a while I thought the 5D3 was going to be the MP monster but now I'm not so sure. It's coming though.


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## awinphoto (Jan 20, 2012)

Maui5150 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > BlueMixWhite said:
> ...



HAHA +1 It's good to see someone has their sense of humor this morning... =) Everything is just speculation until something is announced, and even then things can still change up til the release date.... Perhaps we should all cool our jets until we get something concrete... 

On the other hand I have credible info tomorrow's going to snow... lets debate about that haha


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## Picsfor (Jan 20, 2012)

and yet i asked just the question on the original CR1 thread about the 5D2 - 
what if they released a 5D3 with 24-28mp, improved iso to 12800 working and H1 & H2 to 51k - with 9 full cross af points? Would any one buy it?

I'll add in that if they're keeping the mp rating around the low 20mp, it will have dual CF slots and improved weather sealing. These are minor things that can be added for relatively small cost - but huge marketing returns. If it also has built in gps - then you'll know it's a back packers camera and will have people jumping for their cheque books and credit cards. Those features, along with an improved AF will see many happy people rushing to pre-order.

I'm hoping to see one at Focus


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## m3tek44 (Jan 20, 2012)

I always thought Canon was leading edge company yet why do they wait until Nikon D800 announcement? This is disappointing to me......


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## awinphoto (Jan 20, 2012)

m3tek44 said:


> I always thought Canon was leading edge company yet why do they wait until Nikon D800 announcement? This is disappointing to me......



It's kinda been Canon's mantra for the last few camera cycles with the exception of the 7D which made nikon run to catch up with the D300s


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## EYEONE (Jan 20, 2012)

Picsfor said:


> and yet i asked just the question on the original CR1 thread about the 5D2 -
> what if they released a 5D3 with 24-28mp, improved iso to 12800 working and H1 & H2 to 51k - with 9 full cross af points? Would any one buy it?
> 
> I'll add in that if they're keeping the mp rating around the low 20mp, it will have dual CF slots and improved weather sealing. These are minor things that can be added for relatively small cost - but huge marketing returns. If it also has built in gps - then you'll know it's a back packers camera and will have people jumping for their cheque books and credit cards. Those features, along with an improved AF will see many happy people rushing to pre-order.
> ...



If the 9 points were a lot more spread out than the current model then yes I would buy it. I would prefer 19 or 25 with at least 9 crosses but I probably would only use the crosses anyway. I'd take a stop better noise performance also.

So 9 cross type sensors with better spread, stop better noise performance and I don't really care how many MPs it has and yeah, I'd buy it.


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## awinphoto (Jan 20, 2012)

Picsfor said:


> and yet i asked just the question on the original CR1 thread about the 5D2 -
> what if they released a 5D3 with 24-28mp, improved iso to 12800 working and H1 & H2 to 51k - with 9 full cross af points? Would any one buy it?
> 
> I'll add in that if they're keeping the mp rating around the low 20mp, it will have dual CF slots and improved weather sealing. These are minor things that can be added for relatively small cost - but huge marketing returns. If it also has built in gps - then you'll know it's a back packers camera and will have people jumping for their cheque books and credit cards. Those features, along with an improved AF will see many happy people rushing to pre-order.
> ...



Would I buy it? hmmmm... perhaps... The key features I'm really looking for is at least all cross point AF sensors, levels, flash commander (popup flash or IR), and programmable mfn button. If it has those features I would but it in a heartbeat... Gravy would be dual CF, 7d weathersealing, better ISO, cleaner video... MP i'm not bothered in as long as it doesn't drop, it could remain the same for all I care. AF would be nice to see an improvement, and at least add zones like the 7d like block of 4, 1+4 surrounding, etc... It wouldn't be as functional as the 7d but it could make it more friendly and predictable than either 1 or all which it currently is at. Plus if they integrate the lock on the mode dial as standard, that would be a big plus as well.


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## dswatson83 (Jan 20, 2012)

I really hope Canon does not go high MP on this camera. This camera has typically been the great on the go shooter camera because it is lighter weight and less expensive price than the 1D series and has been embraced by the wedding/event shooters. We do not need 30MP...18-24 is MORE than enough. What we need is clean images at higher ISO. I hope canon treats this as the camera it is and keeps the quality features of the 1DX and looses the features that non studio photographers typically don't need/use like 61 Autofocus points, Ethernet out, 12fps shooting, 400,000 cycle shutter, and that advanced of exposure metering to save $$$. 

I'd love to see the same 18mp sensor as the 1DX and iso range minus some of the ports with 5-7fps, 21 point auto focus w/9 cross type and the center diagonal/cross type (like the 1DX has). I don't need the most advanced metering (not a studio camera) but I would like a headphone out instead of the Ethernet port. 1080P video is fine though 1080p @60fps would be awesome. They should be able to intro that in the $3000 range.


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## unfocused (Jan 20, 2012)

Differentiation is the hardest thing for me to get my head around.

Each new model must differentiate itself from the previous model. Hence the 5DIII has to be better than the 5DII.

At the same time, each new model must differentiate itself from other new models. Hence the 5DIII must be inferior to the 1DX. 

Complicating factor: the DSLR customer base has matured and is not likely to expand rapidly. That means, manufacturers have to lean more heavily on current owners to upgrade, rather than simply hope they can expand the base by attracting new buyers. 

Finally, there is the convergence and advancement of technology. The clearly definable differences between the top of the line and the bottom on the line keep getting compressed. You need to make sure your $500 DSLR takes pretty great pictures, but somehow, it has to be about $6,000 *less *great than your top of the line model. And, you've got to slot a whole range of models in between those two, when the reality is that you simply don't have enough differences in features to go around.

So what is Canon to do? 

They only have about nine things to play with:

Sensor Size
Sensor Resolution
ISO Speed
Dynamic Range
Autofocus
Frame Rate
Weathersealing
Bell and Whistles (GPS/Infrared Trigger/Radio Trigger etc.)
Video

For the 5DIII vs. the 1DX they can't play with sensor size, leaving only the other eight.

My guess: 
Leave the resolution a little above the 1Dx, but not too much (21-24 mp);
Leave the ISO Speed a little below the 1Dx (might need to be two stops less in order to add sufficient differentiation);
Some improvement in dynamic range/image quality but this can be relatively subjective and, since the current model is already really good, improvements here aren't going to be a big return on investment;
Autofocus. This is the weakest feature of the 5DII. I think it's a no-brainer that this will get better. Maybe it will get the 7D autofocus;
Frame rate. Not likely to go up much. They need to keep this low to avoid cannibalizing 1Dx sales;
Weathersealing. Same as frame rate. Some improvement possible, but probably only minimal. May not see any change at all;
Bells and Whistles. Some things could be added here that aren't that important to 1Dx owners. At the least, it is likely to be compatible with the 1Dx add ons.
Video. This is the $64,000 question in my mind. I think Canon was caught completely off-guard by the incredible popularity of the 5DII for video. 1Dx buyers are not video buyers and never will be, so Canon has the most flexibility here. I would not be surprised to see a number of improvements designed to make the 5DIII more appealing for low-budget video. This is the only segment of the market that has the chance for significant growth, and they are dominating that market. They won't want to give it up. 

That's my two cents worth.


----------



## Canon-F1 (Jan 20, 2012)

one thing that always makes me laugh are people who write they will switch brands when company "XY" does not include feature "ZX" into a new product.

nobody will notice it in the end results and you immediately notice these people are more gearheads then photographer. 

and really who cares if joe from utah decides to switch to nikon because he thinks he needs 36 MP to make good pictures? NOBODY! 8)

i am with neuro.... i don´t think the 36 MP for the nikon are written in stone.


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## Peerke (Jan 20, 2012)

unfocused said:


> So what is Canon to do?



Just release an updated 5d and let people decide wether to buy and enjoy it or not.

If Canon would make the camera wished for by the gearheads, it will take only one day to make the gearheads comlain again.

I have a 40D and a 7D. The 7D because my wife started to like photography too and I liked the crop factor because sometimes I like to shoot small birds. I have my 10-22 for landscapes if I want and don't print large or sell copies of my pictures. I'm happy with what both camera's offer to me at this moment. Just a happy amature.


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## DavidD (Jan 20, 2012)

*Another vote for NO "AA" filter. Re: The 5D Mark III Megapixel Count? [CR2]*



pen43 said:


> I like the rumors of a D800 without AA filter, I want a 5D3 without AA filter.



*I'll second the motion to get a 5D3 without an AA filter.

I'm not happy that we all have intentional blurriness 
in our RAW images caused by AA filters.

Professional RAW software can now eliminate the moire that 
an Anti-Alias Filter is supposed to reduce. (and Desktop 
computers have a lot more computing power than a camera)

And Yes, I do hope the 5d3 has at least 32 mp.

If it adds 2 or more stops in Dynamic range, 
I'll buy it even if it only has 28 megapixels.*


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## CarebbianTraveler (Jan 20, 2012)

*Re: Another vote for NO "AA" filter. Re: The 5D Mark III Megapixel Count? [CR2]*



DavidD said:


> pen43 said:
> 
> 
> > I like the rumors of a D800 without AA filter, I want a 5D3 without AA filter.
> ...



The lenses definitely have the resolution for that, as the 18MP sensors for APC-C are showing. The same pixel size would equal to 46MP on a full frame sensor. I would even like the idea of having a >100MP sensor that can out-resolv every lens. No need for a AA-filter anymore. The dynamic range of such a sensor wouldn't be bad at lower ISOs, but one trade-off would be high-ISO.

To be honest, I still love the pictures the 5d2 produces. It's still one of the best cameras out there.
And one thing that bothers me more than the sensor is the leak of weather sealing. I think, for this price segment it's absolutely mandatory.
So please Canon, add a weather sealing to the 5d3!


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## zim (Jan 20, 2012)

_leak of weather sealing_

;D ;D ;D ;D

sorry

;D


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## jonathan7007 (Jan 20, 2012)

The analysis in "unfocused" post -- one page back -- is excellent. 

I am a 5DMK2 user. It's very good. Could be better. I also liked the idea posed by another post that updating my aging 30D as a backup into a 7D as that backup (I shoot professionally) would give me, in combination, most of what the highest-end machinery offers. At events I'd have a body for the more frantic moments. In the studio, for real estate, architecture, etc., I continue with the 5DMK2. Tripody stuff.

So that's a danger for Canon in hoping we'll be upgraders to shake new cash out of our wallets. I'm off to look at the prices for used 7D bodies.

Excellent ideas tossed back and forth here. I will enjoy seeing how the story comes out when we reach March, April, whatever. I am somewhat impatient but the extra drama we all make adds to the fun. <grin>

jonathan7007


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## CarebbianTraveler (Jan 20, 2012)

zim said:


> _leak of weather sealing_
> 
> ;D ;D ;D ;D
> 
> ...



oops... wanted to write lack. thanks


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## zim (Jan 20, 2012)

CarebbianTraveler said:


> zim said:
> 
> 
> > _leak of weather sealing_
> ...




no no +1 to you, thank you, just had a wee drinky and gave me a right good giggle I'll never describe weather proofing any other way now cheers! ;D


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## Axilrod (Jan 21, 2012)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Wow so let me get this straight it will have 5fps, not even as much as the 50D and not quite enough to really be even a decent low-end compromise for action, it won't even have as many AF points as the 7D and it might just be 5D2 AF with the outer points no x-type wow big change for nearing a decade and it won't even bump up the MP so no increase in reach or detail.
> 
> So why again am I not just sticking with my 5D2 or for finally for the first time ever truly seriously eying Nikon?
> 
> ...



This is a rumor, not an announcement. And do you really think Canon would spend 3 years on the successor of one of their most celebrated cameras of all time for those few upgrades? Come on now, they're smarter than that.


----------



## 2likru (Jan 21, 2012)

Well here goes. This is my first post to this site but I have been a regular rumor reader for about a year now. I have some of my own ideals about Canon’s plans that I hope will maybe bring new life to the near dead 5dmklll rumor horse. 

First I think that canon has no intentions of weather sealing the 5dmklll. 

I also don't see it having 30+ mega pixels (nor the d800 for that matter).

No eye following auto focus but just maybe the 7d's amount of focus points and viewfinder LCD will make it. In fact I'm almost sure they will despite rumors saying otherwise. 

5fps sounds about right to me and probably some improved video capability but I don't know enough about dslr video to even know what they could improve other than having a dedicated switch to change between video and stills.

I can't see Canon putting weather sealing in a full frame camera that needs to be as "cheap" as the 5d needs to be unless Nikon does it and they won't either, so your only hope for a low priced, full frame, and weather sealed camera is Sony (they have the sensor and no pro-body market to cannibalize). As far as the auto focus, I think the new 1d's system is probably far beyond the 7d's which frees the 7d system for use in the 5d. I know allot of current 5dll owners an even 5d owners who never upgraded will buy a 5dlll if it gets that auto focus and viewfinder LCD. I also know that people waiting for the 5dlll to be announced so they can get a used 5dll cheap will splurge on the new body instead for that auto focus, especially, if they currently own a 7d (you know a luxury once sampled bla bla bla) and Canon has to know this also.

If Canon does make a normal bodied, full frame, and weather sealed camera for photographers who want the durability of a 1d with the size and weight of the 5d, it will be a new line without the baggage of an existing market to alienate with the resulting high price tag. That mythical beast would get the updated eye follow focus and probably a price tag only slightly below the 1d cameras if not equal in price. It would probably take a hit in battery power as it would use a weaker battery to fit in the smaller body. It may be a reincarnation of the EOS 3 called 3d (but they might call it 1d lite or something stupid like that). I'm going off on a tangent but I think you get the point.


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## Meh (Jan 21, 2012)

dilbert said:


> *If 1080p requires an 8.3MP sensor*, then 4K video requires a 33.2MP sensor.



It does?


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## bvukich (Jan 21, 2012)

dilbert said:


> If 1080p requires an 8.3MP sensor, then 4K video requires a 33.2MP sensor.



1080P only requires a 2MP sensor.


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## Blaze (Jan 21, 2012)

dilbert said:


> 4K video has 4 times as much video data as 1080p (4K is approximately twice the width and height of 1080p).
> 
> If 1080p requires an 8.3MP sensor, then 4K video requires a 33.2MP sensor.



What?

1080p is 1920 x 1080 (~2.1 MP)

Full Aperture 4K is 4096 × 3112 (~12.7 MP).
QFHD is 3840 x 2160 (~8.3 MP).

Where are your numbers coming from?


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jan 21, 2012)

motorhead said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > Why not use the AF from the 1Ds3?
> ...



If their new 1DX AF can't fend off even the old 1D3 AF then they are really, really in serious trouble. THey over protect their 1 series to an absurd degree.

Give the 5D3 6.3 fps already, no serious sports pro will want less than 8 anyway but at least let it be usable generalist. Give it 1D2n, 1D3, 1D4 AF something. Come on already. Their attitude absolutely stinks the last 5 years compared to Nikon's.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jan 21, 2012)

gmrza said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > The most consistent mention is March for an announcement.
> ...



Exactly.

If the rumors so far about the 5D3 have any bearing, it's be a joke of a 25th celebration for the EOS line. What as one of the most innovative and push it forward lines ever turned into a crippled mess led by a paranoid marketing team with the engineers cowering in the corner.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jan 21, 2012)

Canon-F1 said:


> gmrza said:
> 
> 
> > The 5DIII and the 4k DSLR would both be good candidates for a March announcement.
> ...



As I said the MP count has precious little to do with fixing up DR, simply reducing the count won't do anything if they don't fix up the ADC system. All it will mean is less effective reach when you are distance limited and less detail in general (also less HD space eaten up too, granted).


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jan 21, 2012)

Gcon said:


> The talk about the 5DIII keeping the MP the same is fantastic. That means there's an even greater chance that their upsell over the 5DII is going to be AF and weather sealing. One can only hope. GPS built into the body would be nice, but fat chance of that I reckon.



Yeah, hopefully the other rumors are fake (the ones where the best scenario is 5 fps and typical is 3-4fps and the best AF scenario is slightly crippled 7D AF and the worst is well let us not speak of it. If they souped up the rest of the specs to a sizable degree I'd live with the 18-21MP even if I'd ideally prefer more.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jan 21, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> It's likely they can promise a 2-stop improvement in ISO noise (jpg, of course) just based on gapless microlenses and Digic5. They'll have to do more than that, I think. My contention is that they will offer improvements, but still maintain differentiation from the 1D X (better than they did with 5DII/1DsIII). So, if it's a 21-24 MP camera, they can bump the AF up a bit (a bit under the 7D), and they'll keep the frame rate low. If it's 30+ MP, less of an AF bump (or none) and an even lower frame rate.



They appear to be heading that way, but I have to say I won't bite. And I think it'll create quite an uproar in the forums.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jan 21, 2012)

Canon-F1 said:


> one thing that always makes me laugh are people who write they will switch brands when company "XY" does not include feature "ZX" into a new product.
> 
> nobody will notice it in the end results and you immediately notice these people are more gearheads then photographer.
> 
> ...



Funny that people always say it's just gear heads who never shoot or do anything. I've shot national sporting events and all over the US and the world as have many others who I've seen slammed as gear head pixel peepers. Maybe some people actually have real reasons for wanting ZX.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jan 21, 2012)

bvukich said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > If 1080p requires an 8.3MP sensor, then 4K video requires a 33.2MP sensor.
> ...



Everyone saying this is forgetting that these are Bayer sensors. If you read the white paper canon released on the C300 it explains what they are doing with the 8MP sensor to deliver 1080p.


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## Rank_90 (Jan 23, 2012)

Just seen this on North Light Images:

Jan 23rd We're told that Canon won't be going for a high MP FF DSLR until that 4k 'concept' camera is a reality (with a 30+MP sensor to get 'cleaner' 4k video)

We're also getting slightly more detailed suggestions for the 5D2 replacement, with several pointing to 22MP (or virtually the same as in the 5D2), and one adding 61 Focus points (41 Cross) same as 1D X, 100-25600 Basic ISO, 6 fps - Suggested date was March 7th. Sounds a bit close to the 1D X which still won't have shipped by then)... but I'm still getting MP estimates from 18 to 40. Nothing solid yet from any known sources, so extra pinches of salt to be taken ;-)


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## Picsfor (Jan 23, 2012)

Rank_90 said:


> Just seen this on North Light Images:
> 
> Jan 23rd We're told that Canon won't be going for a high MP FF DSLR until that 4k 'concept' camera is a reality (with a 30+MP sensor to get 'cleaner' 4k video)
> 
> We're also getting slightly more detailed suggestions for the 5D2 replacement, with several pointing to 22MP (or virtually the same as in the 5D2), and one adding 61 Focus points (41 Cross) same as 1D X, 100-25600 Basic ISO, 6 fps - Suggested date was March 7th. Sounds a bit close to the 1D X which still won't have shipped by then)... but I'm still getting MP estimates from 18 to 40. Nothing solid yet from any known sources, so extra pinches of salt to be taken ;-)



I could go with 22mp, 6fps and 25600 working ISO. But 1DX focusing - not a hope. First off it would require that the 5D3 is equipped with 2 processors (Digic 5 & Digic 4 for AF), and this would create exactly the same issues has occured with the 5D2 and 1Ds3. Also - it would eliminate the need for a 7D!

That said, if Canon were going to merge those 2 lines, then maybe i could see it happening, but it wouldn't have a large buffer like the 1 series, deferring to the new high speed CF for data storage like the D4. Also, do not think it would have the Ethernet port or any improved video functionality.

And of course, it would be called a 5DX


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## Rank_90 (Jan 23, 2012)

What I'm looking for from the 5D Mrk III and the most important things for me are:

5D Mk II Focus issue resolved
Can crop without being worried about loss of quality so good MP's 22 will do me.
Decent fps more than or equal to the 7D.
The 24-70 f/2.8L II would be the kit lense. 
And the price wouldnt be so high that I have to sell my Mrs kidney on ebay to pay for it.


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## K-amps (Jan 23, 2012)

Picsfor said:


> ....I could go with 22mp, 6fps and 25600 working ISO. But 1DX focusing - not a hope. First off it would require that the 5D3 is equipped with 2 processors (Digic 5 & Digic 4 for AF), and this would create exactly the same issues has occured with the 5D2 and 1Ds3.* Also - it would eliminate the need for a 7D!*...



Is that really a problem for Canon? They could be better off selling us FF bodies, and thus have us spend multiples more in EF lenses. Whoever needs crop would get crop anyway... so unless Canon kills the 7D, partial cannibalizing to a higher end product should be good for them. 

I agree with you on the AF... it won't be as good as the 1dx or even close, but it needs to be much better than the current set-up. Canon has pride.... it won't make the same mistake that got one of it's better known models a bad AF rep.


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## traveller (Jan 23, 2012)

I don't buy this argument that an improved 5D MkII replacement would obviate the need for the 7D. The market for the 7D should be purchasing this camera either for what it offers in terms of 'more pixels on target', or for its lower price. If potential 5D series owners are buying a 7D because they are put off by the 5D's poorer AF and slow speed, then surely Canon are losing potential profits? 

If the 5D MkII replacement is to stay low(er) megapixel, Canon will need to do something to sell it over buying a second hand 5D MkII and I don't think that an extra stop or so of ISO will cut the mustard. It would make sense to me to ramp up the AF specs and continuous burst rate, as there are many other ways to 'hobble' the camera for pros. Even having the 1D X's AF system would not guarantee 1D X levels of performance, especially if the '5D MkIII' didn't have the same processing power. They could also make the buffer smaller than the 1D X (like Nikon did with the D7000), which would also put off serious sports shooters. Next, they could remove dual memory card and ethernet support, further discouraging professionals. 

Professionals who make their living from their photographs are generally quite conservative, they rely on their camera behaving exactly as they expect it to in order to get their shots. If they've owned a number of 1-series cameras it is unlikely that they would easily be persuaded to 'trade down'. Whilst most of us are feeling the squeeze economically, a new camera body every four years is not exactly the largest business expense for those that truly make their living from photography.


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## K-amps (Jan 23, 2012)

Rank_90 said:


> And the price wouldnt be so high that I have to sell my Mrs kidney on ebay to pay for it.



+1 ;D


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## K-amps (Jan 23, 2012)

BCN best selling cameras for Dec 2011 is in: Canon has top 3 slots. No wonder they are putting their feet up on their desks instead of announcing the 5diii... Canon are you listening?

http://bcnranking.jp/category/subcategory_0008.html

(Site is in Japanese)


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 23, 2012)

Rank_90 said:


> 5D Mk II Focus issue resolved
> Can crop without being worried about loss of quality so good MP's 22 will do me.
> Decent fps more than or equal to the 7D.
> The 24-70 f/2.8L II would be the kit lense.
> And the price wouldnt be so high that I have to sell my Mrs kidney on ebay to pay for it.



Let's see...a FF camera with pro-level AF and 8 or more fps, more MP than the 1D X, and selling for 1/3 the price of the 1D X? And a partridge in a pear tree.


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## K-amps (Jan 23, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Let's see...a FF camera with pro-level AF and 8 or more fps, more MP than the 1D X, and selling for 1/3 the price of the 1D X? And a partridge in a pear tree.



;D ;D ;D


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## Rank_90 (Jan 23, 2012)

Just cant wait to see what they unveil. Dont let me down Canon I dont like the Nikon logo. Red Rules, Yellow = yuck.


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## awinphoto (Jan 23, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Rank_90 said:
> 
> 
> > 5D Mk II Focus issue resolved
> ...



haha +1... I could see the AF improvement, whether its as good as the 50D or as good as the 7D, who knows... Cropping... nice but not a deal breaker... FPS more equal to the 7D, no shot in hell... 24-70... Well it's snowing in nevada, so I guess hell's frozen over... price... ehhh I would call your surgeon so he's on retainer just in case =)


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## mathino (Jan 23, 2012)

> Let's see...a FF camera with pro-level AF and 8 or more fps, more MP than the 1D X, and selling for 1/3 the price of the 1D X? And a partridge in a pear tree.



Exactly, that's not gonna happen.

I can see 5D Mk III like this:

1.) FPS: 5-6 fps max
2.) ISO: 100-25600 (even a native 12800 would work for me, expandable to 51 200)
3.) AF: at least 9 cross type points with center with higer sensitivity and ofc wider spread of them (really would prefer 7D style AF, but let's be serious, that's not gonna happen)
4.) Mpx count: Mpx of current is fine for me, no need for more
5.) Video: make it possible to shoot 1080p at 60fps

...and a useful thing would be if it wold be compatible with: *WFT-E6A Wireless File Transmitter* and *GP-E1 GPS Receiver*.

Thats my 2 cents.


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## SomeGuyInNewJersey (Jan 23, 2012)

Talk of a 5d mkiii with an AF system as good as the 7d making the 7d redundant leads me to ask the question...

Where do people see the 7d in the Canon range... Is the DSLR range to be viewed as a linear heirarchy? Or do people see the 5d and 7d on a step below the 1d series on a pyramid? Isnt the 5d mkiii being higher up the range (so to speak) meant to be better than the 7d?

I dont see the 7d being made unnessessary by a 5d with good AF. The 7d is cheaper and non full frame. Cheaper than the 5d mkiii will obviously help keep it selling and so will the extra reach given by it not being full frame. Okay so it may make people less likely to feel the need to buy a 7d to go with their 5d as the 7d but how much of a market is that?

It seems to me that people are focusing a lot of keeping Canons DSLR all in order and nicely separated in terms of features and specs but I hope Canon are paying as much attention to the competition as they do balancing their own range. 

The point of Canon not wanting to damage sales of the more expensive 1dx by making the 5d mkiii in any way close to it seems a bit strange. Surely a lot more money is spent on glass than bodies? Especially amongst wildlife and sports shooters. 

We speculate about what Canon and Nikon are going to do and to how they will react to announcements by each other, I am thinking mainly here of the D800 affecting the 5d Mkiii, but do you think that Canon and Nikon have a more reliable idea of what is going on in each other camp than we on the outside do? 

I have decided to wait rather than buy a 5d Mkii but that could change any moment  the more the suggestions come that the 5d mkiii will not be a huge stretch from the 5d mkii in any particular area makes me think that I'll end up taking an option that wasnt even a thought for me before... I may just wait untilt he 5d mkiii is announced and then buy a 5d mkii instead. 

One thing I find a little puzzling though is that if the 5d mkiii is going to make 22mp then its going to be a completely new sensor... Okay so it may have an increased iso range and dynamic range. It seems an awful lot of cost and logistical effort to develop and manufacture 2 new sensors with only a 4mp difference between them.

And a final though...

Ive heard say on these forums how we are all like kids on Christmas Eve speculating about our presents... well the problem there is that with Christmas Eve at least you know that the goodies are coming the next day. At least Christmas has a fixed date... 

Perhaps a better analogy is that we are kids in the backseat and Canon is daddy driving... "Are we there yet?" says we... "No just shut up and stop asking" says Daddy


----------



## Meh (Jan 23, 2012)

traveller said:


> Professionals who make their living from their photographs are generally quite conservative, they rely on their camera behaving exactly as they expect it to in order to get their shots. *If they've owned a number of 1-series cameras it is unlikely that they would easily be persuaded to 'trade down'. * Whilst most of us are feeling the squeeze economically, a new camera body every four years is not exactly the largest business expense for those that truly make their living from photography.



Isn't it generally accepted that this is exactly what happened with the 5D2 taking out the 1Ds3?


----------



## awinphoto (Jan 23, 2012)

Meh said:


> traveller said:
> 
> 
> > Professionals who make their living from their photographs are generally quite conservative, they rely on their camera behaving exactly as they expect it to in order to get their shots. *If they've owned a number of 1-series cameras it is unlikely that they would easily be persuaded to 'trade down'. * Whilst most of us are feeling the squeeze economically, a new camera body every four years is not exactly the largest business expense for those that truly make their living from photography.
> ...



I dont know if persay it was the 5d2 that took out the 1ds3... but as a professional, its all about having the right tool for the job... such as having the right lens for the shoot, right lighting... and for once, the 5d2 had something the 1ds3 didn't have... that is video... Whether it was a pet project other professionals wanted, or even a set up camera (most professionals on big shoots have a second camera (or third) just to take pictures of the set they are in with measuring tapes and other recordable info JUST INCASE something goes wrong, they can quickly reset up, go by the setup shots, and know EXACTLY how to do things again... Professional photography is in part all about repeatable outcomes... That's why some portrait studios dont tear down their studios at night... they had an outcome they liked and they keep it for the next shoot so they can repeat the shot with a new client. There's many reasons to have such a camera whether it's a primary camera or a backup. Any maybe some photographers got the new camera and fell in love with it's form factor... Nevertheless I'm waiting anxiously to see what the new generation of cameras will bring us... Any speculators wish to guess what will come out first? The 70D or the new 5d3? =)


----------



## mathino (Jan 23, 2012)

> I dont know if persay it was the 5d2 that took out the 1ds3... but as a professional, its all about having the right tool for the job... such as having the right lens for the shoot, right lighting... and for once, the 5d2 had something the 1ds3 didn't have... that is video... Whether it was a pet project other professionals wanted, or even a set up camera (most professionals on big shoots have a second camera (or third) just to take pictures of the set they are in with measuring tapes and other recordable info JUST INCASE something goes wrong, they can quickly reset up, go by the setup shots, and know EXACTLY how to do things again... Professional photography is in part all about repeatable outcomes... That's why some portrait studios dont tear down their studios at night... they had an outcome they liked and they keep it for the next shoot so they can repeat the shot with a new client. There's many reasons to have such a camera whether it's a primary camera or a backup. Any maybe some photographers got the new camera and fell in love with it's form factor... Nevertheless I'm waiting anxiously to see what the new generation of cameras will bring us... Any speculators wish to guess what will come out first? The 70D or the new 5d3? =)



Good point ! If somebody is a professional photographer then the camera is just a tool for him/her. And prices of studio stuff (lights/strobes etc) and lenses are higher then camera (especially if you shoot with L primes). And cameras are released/updated more frequenlty then lenses.

As for your question, I would bet on 5D Mk III to be released earlier


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## briansquibb (Jan 23, 2012)

If the 7D is $1500 and the 5DIII is $3000 then there will be immediate market differentiation and very little bleeding of 7D sales to the 5DIII particularly when you consider the difference in lens costs


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## awinphoto (Jan 23, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> If the 7D is $1500 and the 5DIII is $3000 then there will be immediate market differentiation and very little bleeding of 7D sales to the 5DIII particularly when you consider the difference in lens costs



Heck one would forget how easy $800-1000 difference makes in sales differentiation. Why do you guys think so many 7D shooters waited until recently to jump to the 5d2... because the price difference only dropped to a few hundred. Granted, for me, I refused to pay $2600 for a camera will as little "upgrades" to the 7d, but when It dropped, i was willing to plunk the money down.


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## Meh (Jan 23, 2012)

@awinphoto fair point about the 5D2 having a feature that the 1Ds3 didn't have. But I think the point remains that too many of those that would have bought the 1Ds3 for stills decided to go with the 5D2. The specs and image quality were close enough to the 1Ds3 that the higher cost was not justified to too many photographers and therefore the 5D2 ate too much of the 1Ds3 market. I'm really just asking the question here, I've never used a 1Ds3 and am not a pro.

Ultimately, the reality is that the performance/feature difference between products has to justify the price difference.


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## awinphoto (Jan 23, 2012)

K-amps said:


> mathino said:
> 
> 
> > > Let's see...a FF camera with pro-level AF and 8 or more fps, more MP than the 1D X, and selling for 1/3 the price of the 1D X? And a partridge in a pear tree.
> ...



ummm... you DO know this is all speculation until the actual camera is announced... NO ONE knows what it will be except the top people within Canon and the R&D dept plus maybe a handful of select pro's and reps but they are on a non disclose relationship and wouldn't release anything if their lives depended on it... So lets just calm down a tad until we get something more definitive. =)


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 23, 2012)

awinphoto said:


> you DO know this is all speculation until the actual camera is announced...



Wait, wait...all of a sudden I _shouldn't_ make buying decisions based on rumors and hearsay? When did that change?


----------



## mathino (Jan 23, 2012)

> ummm... you DO know this is all speculation until the actual camera is announced... NO ONE knows what it will be except the top people within Canon and the R&D dept plus maybe a handful of select pro's and reps but they are on a non disclose relationship and wouldn't release anything if their lives depended on it... So lets just calm down a tad until we get something more definitive. =)



Those specs that I mentioned was specs that will work for me just fine - nothing real 

And sure, all these specs are just speculations (we are at rumors site ;-) ) and ofc only a few people know what 5D Mk III would be. Let's just wait and see. Oh, and we can speculate on specs in th meantime


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## awinphoto (Jan 23, 2012)

Meh said:


> @awinphoto fair point about the 5D2 having a feature that the 1Ds3 didn't have. But I think the point remains that too many of those that would have bought the 1Ds3 for stills decided to go with the 5D2. The specs and image quality were close enough to the 1Ds3 that the higher cost was not justified to too many photographers and therefore the 5D2 ate too much of the 1Ds3 market. I'm really just asking the question here, I've never used a 1Ds3 and am not a pro.
> 
> Ultimately, the reality is that the performance/feature difference between products has to justify the price difference.



@meh, fair enough... I've been a working pro for the last decade more or less... I dont own but have shot with the 1d series and the 1ds series... as well as nokin and MF and LF... In the end, for professionals, we invest a lot of money into our training/gear/etc.. For me, i'd die for a 1ds3 or 1dx but in the end, I know I can get by with my 5d2 and 7d... and for a long time I just shot with the 7d with my clients without any complaints on the clients behalf on IQ... I know other pro's that have shot for the Olympic teams that shot with 20D's and such... In the end we all have to sit down and justify why we need the gear we have... not everyone, even the pro's, can plunk down on the latest and greatest for the hell of it without having that must have feature that is worth the price and then some... I cannot speak for those who chose the 5d2 over the 1ds... There are those who are dedicated to the 1d series because of their offerings, sealing, body, etc... It's about choosing the right tool to accomplish the task at hand.


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## awinphoto (Jan 23, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> awinphoto said:
> 
> 
> > you DO know this is all speculation until the actual camera is announced...
> ...



Haha... I just dont see the point getting too hot and bothered about rumors and speculations when there may be no need for it in the first place. =) Perhaps this is why people are getting high blood pressure so frequently now... They spend too much time on rumor sites, haha.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 23, 2012)

awinphoto said:


> Perhaps this is why people are getting high blood pressure so frequently now... They spend too much time on rumor sites, haha.



At least there are good drugs to treat that. I don't know of any pharma company developing medicines to treat L-disease...


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## awinphoto (Jan 23, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> awinphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps this is why people are getting high blood pressure so frequently now... They spend too much time on rumor sites, haha.
> ...



Hahaha at least if you spend the money on those good drugs, we will be broke and not afford the money for the L-disease... hahaha ;D


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## rocketdesigner (Jan 23, 2012)

mathino said:


> > Let's see...a FF camera with pro-level AF and 8 or more fps, more MP than the 1D X, and selling for 1/3 the price of the 1D X? And a partridge in a pear tree.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



"5.) Video: make it possible to shoot 1080p at 60fps"

Why would the 5D mkIII include a much sought after function - which the 1Dx does not have?

This is starting to get like the occaisional "lets trade Joe Blow for Albert Pujols" posts on sports sites ... it makes absolutely no sense.


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## Peerke (Jan 23, 2012)

awinphoto said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > awinphoto said:
> ...



Great fun over here ;D


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## awinphoto (Jan 23, 2012)

dilbert said:


> So the 1DX is doing 12fps at 18MP.
> That's 216MP/second, with dual DIGIC V.
> 
> If the 5D3 is only a single DIGIC V (just as the current 5D2 is only single chip, then that's 108MP/second.
> ...



Thats also assuming the camera doesn't chew up extra chip speed for intermittent AF in burst modes and metering (the 7d and 1dx had a separate chip just for AF)... So we could then be back down to 4fps


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## Meh (Jan 23, 2012)

awinphoto said:


> Meh said:
> 
> 
> > @awinphoto fair point about the 5D2 having a feature that the 1Ds3 didn't have. But I think the point remains that too many of those that would have bought the 1Ds3 for stills decided to go with the 5D2. The specs and image quality were close enough to the 1Ds3 that the higher cost was not justified to too many photographers and therefore the 5D2 ate too much of the 1Ds3 market. I'm really just asking the question here, I've never used a 1Ds3 and am not a pro.
> ...



In a way, you did choose the 5D2 over the 1Ds3... as a working pro making a living meeting your client's needs you chose the 5D2 and 7D. If there was a compelling reason you would have paid the extra for a 1 series body. In the end, that's the issue that Canon faced... the weather sealing and AF of the 1Ds3 (etc.) was only worth the extra price to a small segment of the market and 1Ds3 sales dropped like stone after the 5D2 was released. If the 5D3 is too good, the market for the 1DX will be small but maybe that's ok, Canon essentially dropped the 1Ds series for now, the 1DX is more a replacement for the 1D4 anyway.


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## awinphoto (Jan 23, 2012)

Meh said:


> awinphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Meh said:
> ...



Well those were my reasonings for not owning those cameras... They are excellent tools and perhaps IF my main client was lets say Sports illustrated, or out in the wild shooting for national geo where i need the AF, Sealing, Robust Body... If i lived and died by the AF... If I needed everything the 1d series had to offer... If I could justify it as any OTHER REASON than a splurge, for me, how I shoot, and what I need it to do, then I would get it. But until that day, then I will soldier on with what I got.


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## drmikeinpdx (Jan 23, 2012)

My 7D is back at Canon service for the third time, hopefully being cured of Canon autofocus disease, but I am not optimistic. I'm not too upset, because my 5D classic, which I prefer for the image quality, is currently focusing very well for me. I am keeping my fingers crossed that this will continue.

I am very anxious to find out what the 5D III will offer me. I have money to spend and nothing exciting to spend it on right now.

I care nothing about video and I don't need a very high frame rate. My 5D is basically a studio and outdoor portrait camera. I'd like to see the Mark III write faster to the memory card, and it would be nice to have that new micro-adjust feature that allows you to set adjustment points for different focal lengths of a particular zoom lens.

What would really be nice is to have an autofocus system that compensates automatically for incorrect calibration of the lens or body. I'm so sick of wasting time and dollars trying to find lenses that will work with a particular body. Unfortunately, I see no sign of such a system in the near future.

Mike


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## briansquibb (Jan 23, 2012)

awinphoto said:


> I cannot speak for those who chose the 5d2 over the 1ds... There are those who are dedicated to the 1d series because of their offerings, sealing, body, etc... It's about choosing the right tool to accomplish the task at hand.



Shooting back to back with the 5DII and 1Ds3 my conclusions are

- 5DII is the best all round, best at low light, best at high IQ (1Ds3 only goes to 1600)
- give the 1Ds3 good light and lower iso it gives best IQ

For a wedding I would still choose the 5DII due to the likelyhood of higher iso needed


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## wickidwombat (Jan 23, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> awinphoto said:
> 
> 
> > I cannot speak for those who chose the 5d2 over the 1ds... There are those who are dedicated to the 1d series because of their offerings, sealing, body, etc... It's about choosing the right tool to accomplish the task at hand.
> ...



Add in the 5D is smaller and less bulky which IMO is another big benfit for weddings
I need a another 5D for weddings I just wish they would hurry up and get the mk3 out i dont want to get another mk2 and considered a used mk 1 to tide me over but no AF micro adjust is a deal breaker at the used prices they go for, perhaps if I could get a mk 1 for 500 buck i'd get it. And with the 7D 2 on the horizon it rules out a 7D and 17-55 f2.8. While i like the 24-205 f4 it is great during the day and before dark, but once night hits its just too slow. I find at receptions you have to be shooting 3200iso and f2.8 or 1600 iso and f2


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## briansquibb (Jan 24, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> Add in the 5D is smaller and less bulky which IMO is another big benfit for weddings
> I need a another 5D for weddings I just wish they would hurry up and get the mk3 out i dont want to get another mk2 and considered a used mk 1 to tide me over but no AF micro adjust is a deal breaker at the used prices they go for, perhaps if I could get a mk 1 for 500 buck i'd get it. And with the 7D 2 on the horizon it rules out a 7D and 17-55 f2.8. While i like the 24-205 f4 it is great during the day and before dark, but once night hits its just too slow. I find at receptions you have to be shooting 3200iso and f2.8 or 1600 iso and f2



I find that the 50 and 85 are best for receptions with the 135 as backup. I am often allowed to walk around with a light stand and umbrella - in which case the 24-105 comes out and I shoot at f5.6, 1/50, iso800. 

I like the ability to turn the body to portrait, and there little difference in the bulk between a 1Ds3 or 5DII+grip


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## ThomasN (Jan 24, 2012)

With the risc for beeing called a gearhead or whatever, I will soon change to Nikon despite I have 580EX, 70-200 1:2,8L WFT and a 40D (I know it will cost a lot).
I have sold my 20D two years ago to buy a new Canon semi-pro camera which must be able to use autofocus while taking video. Sony, Panasonic and Nikon can do it . . . . Come ON Canon, get a hold of your self. 

If Canon want to keep being the leading manufactor of cameras in the world, Canon should make a camera with the following specs (will be between 1Dx and 7D (5D mrk II):

Vari-angle monitor 3" OLED or LCD 1.1 mil. pixels display (good in the sun)(protects the oled glas)
Perhaps FF 18MP from 1Dx
*ISO 100-51200*
The necessary numbers of DIGIC 5+ 
Video 1080p mode with 60fps
Build-in Stereo mic
Head phone out
*Autofocus at Video * and Live View
Facedetection during both Video and still
Interchangeable Focusing Screen, Rule of Thirds known as the Golden Mean or Golden Ratio.
*Continuous shooting 8fps*
Magnisium alloy body
Water resistant (Weathersealing)
19 AF points with 9 cross over
Both CF and SD slots
Build-in WiFi per-to-per directly to laptop 
GPS

No matter the cost, I would buy IT !!! (better than change to Nikon, that would also cost).


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## wayward (Jan 24, 2012)

5d Mk3 will be sporting a 23mb sensor and released 9th February.


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## briansquibb (Jan 24, 2012)

Ardea said:


> Perhaps, the 5DIII will be aspc.



More likely that the 7D wont be apsc ??? ??? ???


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## marinien (Jan 24, 2012)

ThomasN said:


> With the risc for beeing called a gearhead or whatever, I will soon change to Nikon despite I have 580EX, 70-200 1:2,8L WFT and a 40D (I know it will cost a lot).
> I have sold my 20D two years ago to buy a new Canon semi-pro camera which must be able to use autofocus while taking video. Sony, Panasonic and Nikon can do it . . . . Come ON Canon, get a hold of your self.
> 
> If Canon want to keep being the leading manufactor of cameras in the world, Canon should make a camera with the following specs (will be between 1Dx and 7D (5D mrk II):
> ...



If the specs are between the 1D X and the 7D and you'll buy it no matter the cost, why don't you just buy the 1D X :?


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## RedEye (Jan 24, 2012)

All said, I'll be disappointed if the next advance in technology does not take us over 30MP. About a year ago I flirted with the notion of going medium format, and I decided against as I wanted to see if a competitor to the Lecia S2 appeared. So far the market is still theirs. The quality of the CMOS and CCD plates appears to be merging so hopefully we'll see some of that in the new releases in 2012. While I may be the last one standing, my vote goes for a large frame, very high MP camera with fewer gismos attached for aesthetic simplicity and quality results.


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## 00Q (Jan 24, 2012)

RedEye said:


> All said, I'll be disappointed if the next advance in technology does not take us over 30MP. About a year ago I flirted with the notion of going medium format, and I decided against as I wanted to see if a competitor to the Lecia S2 appeared. So far the market is still theirs. The quality of the CMOS and CCD plates appears to be merging so hopefully we'll see some of that in the new releases in 2012. While I may be the last one standing, my vote goes for a large frame, very high MP camera with fewer gismos attached for aesthetic simplicity and quality results.



+1

Too many people out there wants more techonolgy and more features. At the end of the day, a camera is a camera. It takes photos. Lets hope the buttons will be reduced, more focus on photography and less on techonolgy geeks.


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## Maui5150 (Jan 24, 2012)

I am fine in the 20s are far as MP size goes. Anywhere from 22 - 24 would be nice. Pixel Peepers may disagree


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## ThomasN (Jan 24, 2012)

> marinien
> If the specs are between the 1D X and the 7D and you'll buy it no matter the cost, why don't you just buy the 1D X ?



I don't like to have at 1Dx with 70-200 1:2,8L around my neck skiing for at hole day. It is too big and too havy. The 40D and 70-200 1:2,8L is havy enough. And taking pictures of skiiers and snowboaders is one of my passions.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 24, 2012)

ThomasN said:


> I don't like to have at 1Dx with 70-200 1:2,8L *around my neck* skiing for at hole day. It is too big and too havy. The 40D and 70-200 1:2,8L is havy enough. And taking pictures of skiiers and snowboaders is one of my passions.



I wouldn't want a Rebel and 18-55mm kit lens hanging from my neck all day. You might want to consider a Blackrapid strap, Cotton Carrier, Lowepro chest harness, or some other solution that takes the weight off your neck.


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## Axilrod (Jan 24, 2012)

ThomasN said:


> With the risc for beeing called a gearhead or whatever, I will soon change to Nikon despite I have 580EX, 70-200 1:2,8L WFT and a 40D (I know it will cost a lot).
> I have sold my 20D two years ago to buy a new Canon semi-pro camera which must be able to use autofocus while taking video. Sony, Panasonic and Nikon can do it . . . . Come ON Canon, get a hold of your self.
> 
> If Canon want to keep being the leading manufactor of cameras in the world, Canon should make a camera with the following specs (will be between 1Dx and 7D (5D mrk II):
> ...



Great to see some reasonable people here, I swear if I saw one more post with crazy specs and "all for $2500" at the bottom I was gonna scream. It's like people expect Canon to make them an awesome camera and want it for a ridiculously low price just so it fits their own personal price range. 

I'd like a Ferrari for $20k, but it's not, so I'd look for cars in my price range...not demand that they sell it to me for that. Just because something isn't in your price range doesn't mean it's a ripoff, it doesn't mean the company is trying to scam you, it just means that you really like something you can't afford and you should look for the next best thing.


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## AprilForever (Jan 25, 2012)

I I were getting a 5D III, it would be have to a serious upgrade over a 5DII. Else, I am just going to get a 5D II when the 5D III comes out. If I get a 5D II. Which probably I will... Though maybe, I'll hunt a 7D mk II instead. Maybe the dream 1D ASP-C body will come out. Sure now, and it would be around 4500 buckaroos, but a little debt never hurt anyone... :


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## Daniel Flather (Jan 25, 2012)

gmrza said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > The most consistent mention is March for an announcement.
> ...



Two stops would be huge, that's no small feat!


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## vuilang (Jan 25, 2012)

marinien said:


> *Autofocus at Video and Live View*
> If the specs are between the 1D X and the 7D and you'll buy it no matter the cost, why don't you just buy the 1D X :?


cuz there is still no word on AF @videomode compared to the Nikon D4.


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## JR (Jan 25, 2012)

vuilang said:


> marinien said:
> 
> 
> > *Autofocus at Video and Live View*
> ...



Unfortunately I dont believe we will see this feature anytime soon on Canon camera. While I would love to get AF for video mode, first my understanding is most people using video professionally prefers manual focus for video. 

More importantly (and maybe someone could confirm this), I am almost positive the AF capability you refer to in the Nikon D4 is related to a patent Nikon has and therefore Canon cannot implement it the same. Maybe they have not found a way to circonvent this patent or find it is not important enought...

I have tried the AF in video mode on a Nikon camera in a store once, and not sure it works as well as some believe. It was not focusing where I wanted it to focus - it can be limiting to some degree. I hope someone comes up with a solution for us mortal wishing to have some kind of help with AF in Live View mode while shooting occasionial videos...


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## ThomasN (Jan 25, 2012)

> Unfortunately I dont believe we will see this feature anytime soon on Canon camera. While I would love to get AF for video mode, first my understanding is most *people using video professionally prefers manual focus * for video.



Yes JR, you are completely right about that. But it is very very sad that Canon has grown so big that they don't care about thier semi-pros and amateur customers! ! We are many that would like Autofocus while shooting video.


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## JR (Jan 25, 2012)

ThomasN said:


> > Unfortunately I dont believe we will see this feature anytime soon on Canon camera. While I would love to get AF for video mode, first my understanding is most *people using video professionally prefers manual focus * for video.
> 
> 
> 
> Yes JR, you are completely right about that. But it is very very sad that Canon has grown so big that they don't care about thier semi-pros and amateur customers! ! We are many that would like Autofocus while shooting video.



I know...I am one of them too who would love AF in video mode! Sad indeed...


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jan 25, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> awinphoto said:
> 
> 
> > I cannot speak for those who chose the 5d2 over the 1ds... There are those who are dedicated to the 1d series because of their offerings, sealing, body, etc... It's about choosing the right tool to accomplish the task at hand.
> ...



I also had both and loved them and came to the same conclusion. If you do not need the 1D features, the 5D produces better images.

I finally sold off my 1D MK III for twice the price of the 7D I bought as a backup. The 7D is nowhere nearly as good as the 1D MK III, but it works fine as a backup and for sports in good light. The only place where it struggles is in very low light, but then, the sensor is smaller and I did not expect the 7D to be a low light body.


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## vuilang (Jan 25, 2012)

If Canon cant implement AF in Videomode, they're losing the battle in video to the Nikon. And most definitely i'll need to switch.


JR said:


> vuilang said:
> 
> 
> > marinien said:
> ...


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