# 5D3 AF illumination point issue ever fixed?



## Ruined (Mar 15, 2015)

Hi all,
With price of 5D3 dropping, might consider getting one if it goes really cheap when the 5D4 is announced.

Quick question though, I know there was a lot of disappointment when the 5D3 was released that the focus points were hard to see in dim light as they did not individually light in red. I assume this was deemed a hardware issue and never remedied via firmware, correct? This plus the lack of interchangeable focus screen would probably be a deal breaker for me. Thanks.


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 15, 2015)

Just to be clear, you're talking about the points lighting up in AI Servo? Because they do light up in One Shot with appropriate settings. I believe it's likeky a hardware limitation (no RGB metering sensor), but regardless there has been no change with a firmware update.


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## Ruined (Mar 15, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Just to be clear, you're talking about the points lighting up in AI Servo? Because they do light up in One Shot with appropriate settings. I believe it's likeky a hardware limitation (no RGB metering sensor), but regardless there has been no change with a firmware update.



Yes, the AI servo issue. Although I would probably use center point for dim light anyway, it does seem like an odd omission. I know the 1DX got a workable FW fix.


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## TommyLee (Mar 15, 2015)

no
not fixed...likely cant...and 1dx was fixed..

this is prolly the only really annoying issue for me on 5d3...
much of my shooting is servo in very low light in clubs...with fast lenses ...wide open
right where I need the issue fixed

I never quite got ..the difference with 1dx versus 5d3 ...why they could not fix it...
slightly different design

neuro likely knows/could explain....
I almost upgraded for that issue and slight noise improvement ...to 1dx....
but could not justify the cost for the issue improvements...
(last big body I owned was 1d3)

if 5d4 fixes that it will be worth it to me..if not.... maybe not
....
and...thanks Neuro if you are willing to explain....
a lot of your posts have helped me..

Tom


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 15, 2015)

The 'fix' on the 1D X is to flash the point illumination, but I also suspect the 1D X metering system can de-emphasize input from the red channel, whereas the 5DIII cannot.


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## Dylan777 (Mar 15, 2015)

Ruined said:


> Hi all,
> With price of 5D3 dropping, might consider getting one if it goes really cheap when the 5D4 is announced.
> 
> Quick question though, I know there was a lot of disappointment when the 5D3 was released that the focus points were hard to see in dim light as they did not individually light in red. I assume this was deemed a hardware issue and never remedied via firmware, correct? This plus the lack of interchangeable focus screen would probably be a deal breaker for me. Thanks.



Soon or later, I knew it... 

Soon you will forget about interchangeable focus screen, unless, you already have tons of MF lenses and Zeiss Otus.


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## TommyLee (Mar 16, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> The 'fix' on the 1D X is to flash the point illumination, but I also suspect the 1D X metering system can de-emphasize input from the red channel, whereas the 5DIII cannot.



yes ...thanks Neuro.... I remember now
I think that was it.... it was too disruptive to metering on 5d3...... after 1dx fix... they wouldnt do it on 5d3...'because of metering'


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 16, 2015)

With my 5D MK III, the selected AF points will not illuminate constantly as in the 1D MK IV and previous, so you cannot tell if the subject is under the focus point in low lighting, simply because the AF point can't be seen in the dark. Once you press the focus button, the AF point will flash, so you can briefly see where the AF point is, but if its not on the subject, its try again, or move the camera quickly and capture the image. Its trial and error, and if the subject is moving ... I find it to be a really poor feature for low light photography, I want to close the shutter at the exact moment the subject is making a gesture, or leaping in a sword fight, or just having their eyes open.

There is a work around, sort of, but its klutzy so I don't use it.

The 7D has the same issue, but with even more AF points, it might be harder yet to see. The 7D will probably not be used in as low of light as my 5D MK III, so it might be no worse.


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## Ruined (Mar 22, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> Ruined said:
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I am exploring my options as I sold one of my 6D bodies. Getting a 5D3 could be an option, and I would likely keep my current 6D if I did that. Either that or trade the 6D for a 7d2, not sure.

The interchangeable focus screens is still an important issue as I don't like the idea of not being able to see true DOF of my fast lenses in the VF, but if the price of a 5D3 falls under 2k, then I may pick one up as the value becomes a much better proposition despite the shortcoming. But not until I see 5D4 specs, which likely will fix the issues 5D3 has - but for how much more?


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## pwp (Mar 22, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> With my 5D MK III, the selected AF points will not illuminate constantly as in the 1D MK IV and previous, so you cannot tell if the subject is under the focus point in low lighting, simply because the AF point can't be seen in the dark......


Most of my work is done with 5DIII & 1D MkIV and this issue annoys the hell out of me. The always illuminated AF point on the MkIV (and just about all Canon SLR & DSLR bodies before it) is utterly and completely useful. While I have to accept the black AF point issue is a non-fixable hardware limitation, it doesn't reduce the almost daily irritation factor in what is an otherwise completely awesome body. I love just about everything else about the 5DIII. Grrr.

-pw


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## zim (Mar 22, 2015)

Ruined said:


> But not until I see 5D4 specs, which likely will fix the issues 5D3 has - but for how much more?



Seems its fixed on the SR but not on the S so it will depend on which one the 5D4 takes after


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## Ruined (Mar 22, 2015)

zim said:


> Ruined said:
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> > But not until I see 5D4 specs, which likely will fix the issues 5D3 has - but for how much more?
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It is fixed on the 7D2 also correct?

I am thinking maybe I will do 6D + 7D2 for a while. Then when price on 5D4 goes settles a bit pick up one of those to replace the 6D. This AF illumination issue does not sound like one I want to deal with, plus the 5D4 I hope will allow focus screen change like the 1DX/7D2 and I am sure will have ISO performance as good as the 6D or better, plus the 5D4 will likely have the -3 EV AF sensitivity unlike the 5D3.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 22, 2015)

Ruined said:


> zim said:
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I do not consider the 7D MK II to have the issue fixed, and its unlikely that any new camera will be any different. It does flash like the 1DX in AI-Servo, but that's klutzy too.

For 7D MK II;

Viewfinder illumination 
Information on the focus screen can be set to illuminate briefly in certain conditions for better viewing in low light. This is actually set in the EOS 7D Mark II’s AF menu: 5th AF menu screen > VF display illumination: 
Auto 
Red illumination of AF points, Grid Lines, or any other viewfinder info on the focus screen when the camera detects low-light conditions (there’s no way to change the factory-set cut-off point for illuminating vs. not illuminating).
• Enable (ON) 
Red illumination is always active, regardless of ambient light level. *Illumination is limited to when AF is actually being activated; it does not simply constantly illuminate.*
• Off 
No illumination of viewfinder info that’s over the focus screen, regardless of ambient light level.
An important aspect of viewfinder illumination in the EOS 7D Mark II is that if active, it’ll appear differently in One-Shot AF vs. AI Servo AF. In One-Shot AF, when you press whichever button activates AF, it’ll flash briefly upon completion of AF, so you can visually confirm which point(s) are active and where they fall in the scene. In AI Servo AF, it behaves like the EOS-1D X with version 2.0 or higher firmware installed — during continuous AI Servo focus-tracking, the red illumination flashes on every second or so, briefly, then goes off. Again, there’s no way to have it simply illuminate constantly, regardless of the light level.
What about if you’re using Manual focus? If you’ve got the lens set to MF and press actively on whichever button would have been your AF activation button, you’ll get focus confirmation in the viewfinder when you do achieve sharp focus and the red illumination will flash briefly (as in One-Shot AF) when that happens. But again, it won’t illuminate continuously, even if the menu for illumination is set to ON.


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## Gino (Mar 22, 2015)

I agree, the lack of easy to see illuminated autofocus points in servo mode on the 5D MKIII is a fairly big issue in my opinion. Even the 1DX autofocus points aren't the greatest to view in lowlight conditions. 

I sure hope Canon addressed this issue in the Canon 5D MKIV and 1DX MKII....basically I'd like the new Canon cameras to have the same easy to see red translucent autofocus points as offered in the Nikon D4.


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## Ruined (Mar 23, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Ruined said:
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How about the 70D? That has no issues with AF point illumination like the 7d Mark I right? But of course no joystick on the 70D. Argh.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 23, 2015)

Ruined said:


> How about the 70D? That has no issues with AF point illumination like the 7d Mark I right? But of course no joystick on the 70D. Argh.



The 70D AF point only lights in single shot when focus is achieved. It has less function, not more.


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## weixing (Mar 26, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Ruined said:
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Hi,
Why you want the AF point to illuminate continuously?? It'll be drain a lot of battery power. Also, when the "viewfinder display illumination during AI servo AF" is set on, the viewfinder display will flash red when metering start. So with this in mind, this is what I do and work for me:
I setup the Shutter button to metering only, AF-ON button to "Metering and AF Start" with "AI Servo AF", * button to "Metering and AF Start" with "One Shot AF" and set my AF operation mode to "AI Servo". 

With this setup, I can use both "AI Servo" AF and "One Shot" AF at the same time even my AF operation mode is set to "AI Servo". 

When I need the viewfinder to flash red to see the AF points, I turn on the "viewfinder display illumination during AI servo AF" option and the viewfinder will flash red when metering start... Want to see the AF points? Just half-press the shutter to start the metering and the viewfinder will flash red for awhile... this save battery and will allow you to see the AF points in dim light when required which IMHO, a better solution.

Have a nice day.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 26, 2015)

weixing said:


> Hi,
> Why you want the AF point to illuminate continuously?? It'll be drain a lot of battery power. Also, when the "viewfinder display illumination during AI servo AF" is set on, the viewfinder display will flash red when metering start. So with this in mind, this is what I do and work for me:
> I setup the Shutter button to metering only, AF-ON button to "Metering and AF Start" with "AI Servo AF", * button to "Metering and AF Start" with "One Shot AF" and set my AF operation mode to "AI Servo".
> 
> ...



First, I use single shot, not AI Servo, and its in a dark theater dark. All of the Canon 1D cameras, and the Nikon high end bodies allow the user to illuminate the active autofocus points continuously with no issue for battery power, its Canons insertion of a LCD panel that caused the issue with the continuously illuminated points, so they turned the feature off. After a outcry from many professional users, they turned on the flashing points in AI Servo for the 1DX, but not the 5D MK III.

As I noted, there are klutzy workarounds that are difficult to do in the dark. I'd go back to my 1D MK IV, but I have a problem with my hands that stops me from carrying the additional weight.

I'm doubting that there will be a good fix on any future cameras, Canon is stuck on their LCD in the viewfinder as being more useful than being to focus on a specific subject.


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## weixing (Mar 26, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> weixing said:
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Hi,
Although the AF mode is set to "AI Servo", you still can use "One Shot" AF... in my example, the "*" button is configure as "One Shot" AF button, so I can still use "One Shot" AF by pressing "*" button.

Have a nice day.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 26, 2015)

weixing said:


> Hi,
> Although the AF mode is set to "AI Servo", you still can use "One Shot" AF... in my example, the "*" button is configure as "One Shot" AF button, so I can still use "One Shot" AF by pressing "*" button.
> 
> Have a nice day.



Why would I bother? The points on my 5D MK III don't flash in AI Servo in any event, so a klutzy change that results in no AF point lighting even when AF is reached?


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## zlatko (Mar 26, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I'm doubting that there will be a good fix on any future cameras, Canon is stuck on their LCD in the viewfinder as being more useful than being to focus on a specific subject.



In One Shot, the active AF point lights up when focus is achieved. If I'm in a dark setting and I forget which AF point is active, I just focus on anything and the active AF point lights up. Or I press the AF point selection button and the active AF point lights up for 6 seconds. So, although there's no option to have it on continuously, either of those options works and isn't too onerous.


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## weixing (Mar 26, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> weixing said:
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 I'm replying to the section you mention about 7D2.

Anyway, since can be done on 7D2... so I think if there is no alternate solution, a similar method might be implement in 5D4. Anyway, we'll know soon as 5Ds is coming out and it should have some indication on how Canon going to solve this issue.

Have a nice day.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 27, 2015)

weixing said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
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I was referring to the topic 5D MK III, sometimes the discussion gets off track, and then its confusing.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 27, 2015)

zlatko said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
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> > I'm doubting that there will be a good fix on any future cameras, Canon is stuck on their LCD in the viewfinder as being more useful than being to focus on a specific subject.
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Its quite onerous if the subject is moving, you end up focusing to a empty portion of the stage or on the wrong person. As I noted, capturing moving subjects, such as a leap or a event that happens in a fraction of a second just doesn't work fiddling around trying to get the point to light up.

Fortunately, I have at least two chances, because I am able to photograph two rehearsals.

This was in dim light, and the dancer was sick the 2nd night, so there was only one chance. I cut the top off and would have zoomed out the 2nd night.


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## zlatko (Mar 27, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> zlatko said:
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In a situation like that you can use a wider focus area, like the combination of 9 AF points, to increase your AF success rate. As long as you remember where they are within the viewfinder, you're unlikely to miss when the subject leaps.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 27, 2015)

zlatko said:


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Really? That is a severe crop, their were other dancers on the stage and I wanted just that one.


Its really great to have advice, but it is not always practical.


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## zlatko (Mar 28, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> zlatko said:
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I'm talking about using either 8-point expansion (which creates a cluster of 9 points) or perhaps zone AF, instead of a single point —
http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2012/5d3_multiple_af_points.shtml
For moving subjects, those methods have worked better for me than using a single point.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 28, 2015)

zlatko said:


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I'm glad you like the black AF points. The AF point was on the dancer, but on her knee since she jumped higher than I expected. Having the surrounding points on would make little difference.


I do not find it easy to quickly switch AF point options while a play in underway, so I generally use single point, but when the situation calls for it, I may use one of the other options.


I'm not naive or inexperience using cameras, having done it for 60 years now.


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## TommyLee (Mar 29, 2015)

spokane.....
in day lighting...servo... i pick point....move it around.... compose and shoot... lovely
then
i shoot musicians in dark clubs.... agree with all you say
need red active point in servo... bad design...
flat out... no effective work around....
end of story... 

those who dont need this missing function... dont understand....

tom


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