# Why no high-fps?



## tpatana (Jul 3, 2015)

For couple years now I've been hoping any decent price camera to have high fps. All new video cameras seem to go for 4k, while I'd be happy for even 720p240. Is it really that no-one (but me) wants high speed, and thus manufacturers don't care about it? I'd kill for 1080p480.

The best options are few Panasonic models which do 1080p120 or 1080i240, or iphone which does 240fps but it's not the greatest video camera. Some P&S also goes up to 1000fps, but resolution was something like 105x72, or so. GoPro is also good alternative.

So why none of the ~$500-$2000 cameras have nothing to offer there?

Am I only one to hope for higher fps even when taking (reasonable) hit on the resolution?


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## mistaspeedy (Jul 3, 2015)

The sensors simply aren't designed to go that fast (as well as accompanying hardware), and relatively few people really need this. For those who really really need this, there are professional options on the market.
The amount of data that needs to be transferred and processed for something like 1080p480 is massive.
Many cameras still only do 1080p30 with some doing 1080p60... simple math shows that 480/30 = 16 times more data needs to be processed than 1080p30.
The best you can hope for anytime soon is getting 1080p120 (which is the same amount of data as 4K @ 30fps).


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## tpatana (Jul 3, 2015)

mistaspeedy said:


> The best you can hope for anytime soon is getting 1080p120 (which is the same amount of data as 4K @ 30fps).



Or if they let me choose, I'd take 720p240 (which would be ~10% less).

Of course, the best would be if they let you freely choose the resolution and frame rate, and it'd work as long as the data speed stays below given limits. So one person could use 4k30, next one 1080p120, and someone could use 480p960 (which is close to same amount using simple math, of course it's not that easy but for example it's close enough).


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## 1982chris911 (Jul 3, 2015)

tpatana said:


> For couple years now I've been hoping any decent price camera to have high fps. All new video cameras seem to go for 4k, while I'd be happy for even 720p240. Is it really that no-one (but me) wants high speed, and thus manufacturers don't care about it? I'd kill for 1080p480.
> 
> The best options are few Panasonic models which do 1080p120 or 1080i240, or iphone which does 240fps but it's not the greatest video camera. Some P&S also goes up to 1000fps, but resolution was something like 105x72, or so. GoPro is also good alternative.
> 
> ...



Future RED Weapon Woven customer ? 2k 300fps ... but a bit more than your target price: http://www.red.com/store/products/weapon-woven-cf-brain-deposit


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## candc (Jul 3, 2015)

The new Sony Rx's do 1920x1080p @1000fps


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## tpatana (Jul 4, 2015)

candc said:


> The new Sony Rx's do 1920x1080p @1000fps



Wow, you almost had me there, especially when I saw the prices. But,... here's what they claim:

240fps NTSC/250fps PAL (1,824×1,026)
480fps NTSC/500fps PAL (1,676×566)
960fps NTSC/1000fps PAL (1,136×384)

And to make it even worse, it can record only 2 or 4 seconds at a time (depending on quality settings).

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/digital-cameras/1403420/super-slow-motion-hands-on-with-the-1000fps-sony-rx100-iv-rx10-ii


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## 1982chris911 (Jul 4, 2015)

See? YOU WANT THAT RED ...  anyway I guess what you want is not yet possible without getting into serious pro gear ... for longer filming at that fps rates the amount of data moved is far beyond what prosumer cams could handle


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## tpatana (Jul 4, 2015)

1982chris911 said:


> See? YOU WANT THAT RED ...



Yup. Have to decide between RED and kidneys. Difficult decision.


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## mkabi (Jul 4, 2015)

@OP

I'm in the same boat as you.
In fact, I'd be happy with 1080/120, as long as its ILC.
If you want cheap... You can use the gopro4.
If you can afford a bit more.... But need to compromise in terms of time and slight resolution then use the Sony rx cameras.

There is one last solution, but you are really investing in something that isn't a sure thing and that's the fps1000
http://www.eoshd.com/2015/04/kickstarter-fps1000-high-speed-camera-update-options-include-4k-sony-a7s-like-sensitivity-4000fps-hd/


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## tpatana (Jul 4, 2015)

Yea, I've been eyeing the fps1000. Interesting project for sure, but I'd like to see real reviews first.


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## syder (Jul 14, 2015)

Or just use Twixtor...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--ZwS0bihHQ
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLMoJ7jl4sw

Not the greatest examples but took 5 secs to find. 2nd one is shot on a 7D


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## tpatana (Jul 14, 2015)

syder said:


> Or just use Twixtor...
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=--ZwS0bihHQ
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLMoJ7jl4sw
> ...



I tried, doesn't work for the sports I shoot. Shooting at 60fps, there's too much movement between each frame, and Twixtor can't guess what happens in between.


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## syder (Jul 15, 2015)

tpatana said:


> syder said:
> 
> 
> > Or just use Twixtor...
> ...



So it's fine for diving, ski-jumps, mountain biking, fire breathing...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tsLJY89K5Z8
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F3uJmF0uTM0

What sports are you filming that's so much faster than those things? 

Are you sure you had your camera settings right when you tried? If you have motion blur then Twixtor struggles.


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## tpatana (Jul 15, 2015)

syder said:


> Are you sure you had your camera settings right when you tried? If you have motion blur then Twixtor struggles.



I'm using my camcorder, and on that I cannot control aperture or shutter speed. It's shooting at 1080p60, and it has plenty of motion blur. The sports is Japanese sword fight (kendo), and on stills 1/500 doesn't have too much motion blur most of the time, but to really stop you need at least 1/1000.


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## tpatana (Jul 15, 2015)

tpatana said:


> syder said:
> 
> 
> > Are you sure you had your camera settings right when you tried? If you have motion blur then Twixtor struggles.
> ...



Here's one example, I think I shot this at 1/500:

https://www.facebook.com/KendoPhotography/photos/a.428134560686921.1073741829.403157586517952/475427979290912/?type=1&theater

The stick for the other guy has plenty motion blur.


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## syder (Jul 15, 2015)

tpatana said:


> syder said:
> 
> 
> > Are you sure you had your camera settings right when you tried? If you have motion blur then Twixtor struggles.
> ...



Thanks for posting the example, that helps clarify things a lot. If you had video with that much motion blur I'd think Twixtor would probably struggle. It really needs sharp lines to interpolate the intermediate frames.

So theoretically any DSLR or camcorder where you have a manual shutter control will allow you to do what you want. Just set your shutter to 1/1000 or 1/2000 (i'd err on being faster than needed rather than slower). The issue isn't that you can't get a camera to do what you want, it's that you can't control your shutter speed with your camcorder.

Although, you'll probably want something that's got pretty good clean high ISO performance to shoot at 1/2000 (unless that hall is really, really brightly lit).


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## tpatana (Jul 15, 2015)

syder said:


> Although, you'll probably want something that's got pretty good clean high ISO performance to shoot at 1/2000 (unless that hall is really, really brightly lit).



Yes, there's the next problem I'm having. Typical gym where we have matches, I shoot at 1/500 F2.8 ISO6400.


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