# A bit more about the rumored EOS R for video [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 22, 2020)

> Canon Watch has followed up on its story about a video focused Canon EOS R camera. They have called it the EOS R5c, which is likely a placeholder. I’ll just call it the ‘EOS Rc’ for now.
> It’s now being reported that the EOS Rc will have a full-frame sensor of “about 11.25mp”. For the record, the soon-to-be-launched 4K capable Sony a7S III is 12.1mp.
> To me, this looks like it could be the rumored Cinema EOS C50, which is expected to be announced sometime this year.  Though the EOS C50 will use the Super35 sensor from the Cinema EOS C200.
> I have not personally heard anything directly about an ‘EOS Rc’, so please take this information with a big grain of salt.



Continue reading...


----------



## StevenA (Sep 22, 2020)

The Sony a7S III, while being a very capable video camera, is a lackluster stills performer. Yet they want almost as much for it as the R5. I hope that any attempt by Canon to do a similarly capable video-centric camera comes in at around $2,500.


----------



## Rocksthaman (Sep 22, 2020)

StevenA said:


> The Sony a7S III, while being a very capable video camera, is a lackluster stills performer. Yet they want almost as much for it as the R5. I hope that any attempt by Canon to do a similarly capable video-centric camera comes in at around $2,500.


 
Where have you seen “lackluster” stills performance? I know it’s 12mp, but what has been lackluster in performance?


----------



## degos (Sep 22, 2020)

It does make sense to build a family around the R5 chassis, which makes the R6 even more of an oddity. How can it be efficient to have tooled-up a whole separate production line for that model?


----------



## LSXPhotog (Sep 22, 2020)

Canon Watch has seldomly predicted anything accurately that it didn't copy from this website. LOL


----------



## BroderLund (Sep 22, 2020)

Given the connection to the C50. It is not known if it is a FF or a S35 sensor?


----------



## docsmith (Sep 22, 2020)

As heat dissipation is the primary issue with the R5/6 in terms of video (or so it seems), something would have to be unique about the Rc to address that issue. The "better heat sink" helps, but only for a short period of time as the heat has to get out of the camera and dissipate (so a heat sink is more about heat relocation and not dissipation). 

Quick thoughts:

A fan or some other way to circulate air, within the camera.
A port or other adapter that allows the heat sink to be connected to something external that moves the heat out of the camera. I am thinking something like a battery grip with a conductive metal/metal contact point with the heat sink.
More efficient/optimized internals for video that simply generate less heat. 
Then as long as it could do something equivalent to 4K HQ, 4K120 (even 240?), and the same for 2K, wouldn't people be happy?

And, of course, the other limitation would be recording past 29'59" in all modes.


----------



## suteren (Sep 22, 2020)

Rocksthaman said:


> Where have you seen “lackluster” stills performance? I know it’s 12mp, but what has been lackluster in performance?


well, if you take photos only for instagram, i guess it's phenomenal. except for the colors, but instagram has pretty filters nowadays.


----------



## crazyrunner33 (Sep 22, 2020)

suteren said:


> well, if you take photos only for instagram, i guess it's phenomenal. except for the colors, but instagram has pretty filters nowadays.



For Instagram, 2 megapixels looks pretty good. I assume 12 megapixel looks fine printed up at 16x20. One of the 20x30s hanging in my house is from an 8 megapixel Canon from yesteryear.


----------



## mb66energy (Sep 22, 2020)

11.25 is 45 / 4 - so maybe the R5 sensor with videocentric read-out for 4k in HQ mode with much lower degree of heat dissipation? And some slow 45 MPix photography and DPAF for movie? Would be a great combo for me: 4k beast in terms of IQ and slow 45 MPix IQ beast in photography. Coming in at the same price as R5.
Maybe with some improved heat dissipation design ...


----------



## PureClassA (Sep 22, 2020)

Yeah, I'd say given the C50 news at $3200, I'd be skeptical of Canon dropping a (full frame?) R "Cinema" body around the same time with theoretically similar or better specs. I mean, I would LOVE to see that, but the R6 is basically that Camera already minus the 4k120 and the LOG 2 and 3 Gammas. 12MP would be wonderful but would Canon drop that at this point? Seems unlikely.


----------



## suteren (Sep 22, 2020)

crazyrunner33 said:


> For Instagram, 2 megapixels looks pretty good. I assume 12 megapixel looks fine printed up at 16x20. One of the 20x30s hanging in my house is from an 8 megapixel Canon from yesteryear.


of course you can print with 12mp, i did not intend for my comment to be taken literally. however, for professional work, 12mp IS a bit lackluster. That doesn't mean that you cannot make it work, but you do have to make it work.


----------



## magarity (Sep 22, 2020)

docsmith said:


> A port or other adapter that allows the heat sink to be connected to something external that moves the heat out of the camera. I am thinking something like a battery grip with a conductive metal/metal contact point with the heat sink.


Recall the interview with the Canon executive not long ago. He made the point about low temperature burns. Holding something that is 46C/113F (no problem at all for a processor heatsink to reach) is not uncomfortable to do but will give you a second degree burn after two hours and just one degree more slashes that time to less than one hour. From Canon's point of view where does an external heat sink go that no customer will get a burn and sue, not to mention scream 'danger' all over social media?


----------



## PureClassA (Sep 22, 2020)

docsmith said:


> As heat dissipation is the primary issue with the R5/6 in terms of video (or so it seems), something would have to be unique about the Rc to address that issue. The "better heat sink" helps, but only for a short period of time as the heat has to get out of the camera and dissipate (so a heat sink is more about heat relocation and not dissipation).
> 
> Quick thoughts:
> 
> ...


Great points. If such a machine exists it probably wouldn't be sealed. Whether you'd have active cooling or not is another story, but some sort of heatsink and open ventilation would be likely.


----------



## iamjhil (Sep 22, 2020)

There's so many R's I'm gonna start losing track soon lol. Hopefully it doesn't take too long to release. I'd love to have this along with the C70


----------



## BeenThere (Sep 22, 2020)

iamjhil said:


> There's so many R's I'm gonna start losing track soon lol. Hopefully it doesn't take too long to release. I'd love to have this along with the C70


CR needs a simple score card of R variants.


----------



## Antono Refa (Sep 22, 2020)

suteren said:


> of course you can print with 12mp, i did not intend for my comment to be taken literally. *however, for professional work*, 12mp IS a bit lackluster. That doesn't mean that you cannot make it work, but you do have to make it work.



This is supposedly a video-centric camera. Do the stills requirements of said target audience really exceed 12MP? Why?


----------



## docsmith (Sep 22, 2020)

magarity said:


> Recall the interview with the Canon executive not long ago. He made the point about low temperature burns. Holding something that is 46C/113F (no problem at all for a processor heatsink to reach) is not uncomfortable to do but will give you a second degree burn after two hours and just one degree more slashes that time to less than one hour. From Canon's point of view where does an external heat sink go that no customer will get a burn and sue, not to mention scream 'danger' all over social media?


So, my thought wasn't necessarily a second heat sink. But rather, you could have the heat sink in the camera, contact the external heat sink with a sealed, metal to metal connection point, and then you would dissipate the heat from the external heat sink. That way, the camera is sealed, but the heat has a way to get out. 

This really isn't that different that the heat sinks on CPUs that either use fluid or sometimes just copper pipes to conduct heat away from the CPU to a fan a short distance away.

It is just a thought.


----------



## Rocksthaman (Sep 22, 2020)

suteren said:


> well, if you take photos only for instagram, i guess it's phenomenal. except for the colors, but instagram has pretty filters nowadays.



Right, but based on what lackluster performance? Not 12mp pictures but the camera ?


----------



## amorse (Sep 22, 2020)

magarity said:


> Recall the interview with the Canon executive not long ago. He made the point about low temperature burns. Holding something that is 46C/113F (no problem at all for a processor heatsink to reach) is not uncomfortable to do but will give you a second degree burn after two hours and just one degree more slashes that time to less than one hour. From Canon's point of view where does an external heat sink go that no customer will get a burn and sue, not to mention scream 'danger' all over social media?


Can you image those YouTube reviews? Maybe EOS HD would get their lawsuit after all from injuries caused by using that body.


----------



## Chaitanya (Sep 22, 2020)

Hopefully Canon will use dual format dual slots similar to Sony with CFexpress A and SD.


----------



## RayValdez360 (Sep 22, 2020)

kinda pointless or at least a waste of resources to have a c70 and this camera. might as well have a full frame eos cr95


----------



## Bert63 (Sep 22, 2020)

suteren said:


> of course you can print with 12mp, i did not intend for my comment to be taken literally. however, for professional work, 12mp IS a bit lackluster. That doesn't mean that you cannot make it work, but you do have to make it work.




Professionals?

Wildlife hobbyists and semi-pros won't even look at 12MP unless it comes with a 600mm and 1.4XIII...


----------



## Bert63 (Sep 22, 2020)

amorse said:


> Can you image those YouTube reviews? Maybe EOS HD would get their lawsuit after all from injuries caused by using that body.




Is EOS HD still a thing?


----------



## twoheadedboy (Sep 22, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> Professionals?
> 
> Wildlife hobbyists and semi-pros won't even look at 12MP unless it comes with a 600mm and 1.4XIII...



Neither of the things you mention is "professional" (hobbyist, semi-pro). Photojournalism would definitely find 12 MP sufficient, as they switched to DSLR long before 12 MP was even available. Of course, I don't know why such a person would want this camera over a 1DX III, and not even because it shoots at 20 MP (though it doesn't hurt). I guess if they were doing a lot of on-the-spot interviews without a crew and still wanted to shoot photos and wanted to do it with 1-body 1-lens so they could chase down their targets more effectively lol.


----------



## StevenA (Sep 22, 2020)

Rocksthaman said:


> Where have you seen “lackluster” stills performance? I know it’s 12mp, but what has been lackluster in performance?


12mp is pretty lackluster for $3,500


----------



## padam (Sep 22, 2020)

Chaitanya said:


> Hopefully Canon will use dual format dual slots similar to Sony with CFexpress A and SD.


Looks like everyone have made their call already.
Sony will use Type A cards
While Canon, Nikon and Panasonic will use Type B cards, which are bigger, but faster and more common and backwards compatible with XQD.


----------



## usern4cr (Sep 22, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> Great points. If such a machine exists it probably wouldn't be sealed. Whether you'd have active cooling or not is another story, but some sort of heatsink and open ventilation would be likely.


You can have "heat dissapation" and "sealing" at the same time. If you have a thin separate portion of one or more sides or back screen, you can have an area that does the cooling *and* is designed to be just fine getting wet from the outside, with a metal (or other, possibly liquid) conduit to transfer the heat from the sealed camera to the seal-removed cooler. The cooler would have slow air flow through it powered by designed gravity assist (preferably) or by a micro fan.


----------



## DBounce (Sep 22, 2020)

StevenA said:


> 12mp is pretty lackluster for $3,500



Well the Canon C300 Mkiii is only 8.9MP for $11k. So there’s that.


----------



## Juangrande (Sep 22, 2020)

Rocksthaman said:


> Where have you seen “lackluster” stills performance? I know it’s 12mp, but what has been lackluster in performance?


12mp.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Sep 22, 2020)

degos said:


> It does make sense to build a family around the R5 chassis, which makes the R6 even more of an oddity. How can it be efficient to have tooled-up a whole separate production line for that model?


I agree.
A video focused R6 should be 4K or 5K RAW.
A video focused R5 should be 8K RAW.


----------



## Rocksthaman (Sep 22, 2020)

Juangrande said:


> 12mp.



So 20 is great as the 1dx 
And 45 is great as the R5

But 12 is somehow lackluster with no backing with evidence or examples. Crazy thought process.

Love my R and my R6’s but have also delivered cropped a7iii @ 10mp and have heard nothing about lacklusterness. Colors may be a pain, white balance may be off but had never heard a complaint on IQ. 

Weird how no one goes, “how many megapixels is that?”


----------



## nchoh (Sep 22, 2020)

docsmith said:


> So, my thought wasn't necessarily a second heat sink. But rather, you could have the heat sink in the camera, contact the external heat sink with a sealed, metal to metal connection point, and then you would dissipate the heat from the external heat sink. That way, the camera is sealed, but the heat has a way to get out.
> 
> This really isn't that different that the heat sinks on CPUs that either use fluid or sometimes just copper pipes to conduct heat away from the CPU to a fan a short distance away.
> 
> It is just a thought.



As per the Canon patented adaptor that was on CR weeks ago?


----------



## nchoh (Sep 22, 2020)

RayValdez360 said:


> kinda pointless or at least a waste of resources to have a c70 and this camera. might as well have a full frame eos cr95



Releasing this camera will hopefully stop the whining.


----------



## Treyarnon (Sep 22, 2020)

Another video focused R camera.
Its great and all to see Canon lavishing so many new camera's at the video guys, but it would be nice if someone could remind Canon that some of us are still shooting stills...

Sour grapes aside, it does make absoulte sense to take the R5 body and create specalised versions of it for specific user groups. JUST MORE OF THIS SORT OF THING PLEASE .


----------



## jam05 (Sep 22, 2020)

Not buying it. Canon Watch hasnt been credible the entire summer.


----------



## jam05 (Sep 22, 2020)

Just waiting for the 24th. All this other stuff is just simply noise. Not many people are ordering these latest offerings as indicated by the drop in demand.


----------



## jam05 (Sep 22, 2020)

Treyarnon said:


> Another video focused R camera.
> Its great and all to see Canon lavishing so many new camera's at the video guys, but it would be nice if someone could remind Canon that some of us are still shooting stills...
> 
> Sour grapes aside, it does make absoulte sense to take the R5 body and create specalised versions of it for specific user groups. JUST MORE OF THIS SORT OF THING PLEASE .


They are simply migrating the DSLR equivalent to mirrorless. Nothing more. camera sales are down.


----------



## jam05 (Sep 22, 2020)

As if something has changed and all of a sudden the world is suddenly buying cameras.


----------



## David - Sydney (Sep 23, 2020)

nchoh said:


> As per the Canon patented adaptor that was on CR weeks ago?


This would only work with EF lenses though.


----------



## David - Sydney (Sep 23, 2020)

padam said:


> Looks like everyone have made their call already.
> Sony will use Type A cards
> While Canon, Nikon and Panasonic will use Type B cards, which are bigger, but faster and more common and backwards compatible with XQD.


CFe type A are smaller than type B but only have 1 PCIe lane so the max speed is 1GB/s. Certainly fast enough for 12mp video recording modes. Type A spec was only released in Q12019 so very recent/bleeding edge. I hope that owners of the A7Siii have been able to get cards and are happy to pay the early adopter pricing.

Given Canon's reluctance to approve some type B cards with lower speeds, it seems unlikely that type A cards could be used for 8k raw - for internal recording at least. So if Sony want to have a R5 competitor then they will need to move to type B cards.


----------



## Bert63 (Sep 23, 2020)

Rocksthaman said:


> So 20 is great as the 1dx
> And 45 is great as the R5
> 
> But 12 is somehow lackluster with no backing with evidence or examples. Crazy thought process.
> ...



That’s because they can’t see the original image that you may have cropped from to get the final result.

If you’re working in an easy environment where your subject just sits there and you have bottomless opportunity to reposition and reshoot then maybe 12MP is okay for you.

If you’re working with moving targets and only get one chance at getting a decent image - such as BIF - then the ability to crop becomes more important. Good luck cropping action shots from 12MP If your workflow is 4K.

It’s also nice to be able to crop extra “reach” into your wildlife photos if you can’t afford the extra long fast glass wildlife guys all lust after.


----------



## StevenA (Sep 23, 2020)

DBounce said:


> Well the Canon C300 Mkiii is only 8.9MP for $11k. So there’s that.



Apples and oranges. We're talking about a hybrid camera not a pure cinema camera.


----------



## StevenA (Sep 23, 2020)

Rocksthaman said:


> So 20 is great as the 1dx
> And 45 is great as the R5
> 
> But 12 is somehow lackluster with no backing with evidence or examples. Crazy thought process.
> ...



LACKLUSTER

_adjective_

lacking in vitality, force, or conviction; uninspired or *uninspiring.*

I'm backing up my lackluster comment with the definition. 12mp on a $3,500 hybrid camera IS uninspiring/lackluster. Especially when you consider the R5 does almost as good 4k video, offers 8k, AND is currently the worlds best stills camera WITH 45mp for only $400 more. Yes, I believe the a7sIII is a lackluster stills camera.


----------



## RayValdez360 (Sep 23, 2020)

Treyarnon said:


> Another video focused R camera.
> Its great and all to see Canon lavishing so many new camera's at the video guys, but it would be nice if someone could remind Canon that some of us are still shooting stills...
> 
> Sour grapes aside, it does make absoulte sense to take the R5 body and create specalised versions of it for specific user groups. JUST MORE OF THIS SORT OF THING PLEASE .


the eos r5 is damn near the best you can get for stills. the only thing better out there are sensors and most likely just medium format sensors and maybe a few slightly better sony FFs


----------



## Stanly (Sep 23, 2020)

@Canon Rumors Guy "About 11.25MP" is a 3:2 sensor with DCI 4K pixel width.

So if the rumor is true, it's a *4096 × 2730 px sensor with 3:2 aspect ratio typical for photo*, not 4096 × 2160 px sensor with 17:9 ratio from video camera like C200.

I find this might be great news, may be Canon will finally release a full frame camera with IBIS and AF that can take full advantage of those RF lenses for video capture. If it will also have ND instead of shutter (like upcoming C70) – it will jump ahead of the a7S III.

P.S.: 11.25MP is quite a compromise for photo, but not as bad as a randomly completely non-functioning video features for a hybrid shooter.


----------



## padam (Sep 23, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Given Canon's reluctance to approve some type B cards with lower speeds, it seems unlikely that type A cards could be used for 8k raw - for internal recording at least. So if Sony want to have a R5 competitor then they will need to move to type B cards.


Cinema RAW Light codec is coming to more Canon cameras, Sony can also develop something similar or they might just make internal Prores RAW possible in a few years' time, so Type A won't be much of a problem, although their Cinema cameras are sticking to Type B, which is a bit annoying.


----------



## jolyonralph (Sep 23, 2020)

This looks like someone has simply assumed Canon is going to mimic everything Sony does and made up a rumor accordingly.

In my mind what's far more likely is an EOS R5c with slightly reduced weathersealing and a heat exhaust port etc capable of effectively non-stop 8K recording - quite likely in a slightly larger body (perhaps 1DX size?) and for $1k more than the R5


----------



## tomislavmoze (Sep 23, 2020)

I would be happy just with R6 cinema version with no overheating (although for now my R6 is really usable in 50fps, and has a better cooldown time than my R5) and would like it to have a ND filters. So I really hope this camera would be c50 with a ff sensor.


----------



## DBounce (Sep 23, 2020)

No updates on the C70 with the release scheduled for tomorrow? I thought a picture of the rear would have leaked by now.


----------



## nchoh (Sep 23, 2020)

StevenA said:


> Apples and oranges. We're talking about a hybrid camera not a pure cinema camera.



Yes apples cost $3,500. oranges cost $11,000.


----------



## nchoh (Sep 23, 2020)

jolyonralph said:


> This looks like someone has simply assumed Canon is going to mimic everything Sony does and made up a rumor accordingly.
> 
> In my mind what's far more likely is an EOS R5c with slightly reduced weathersealing and a heat exhaust port etc capable of effectively non-stop 8K recording - quite likely in a slightly larger body (perhaps 1DX size?) and for $1k more than the R5



All else being equal, a larger body with a heat exhaust would most likely not be an effective solution. The heat exhaust would still burn your hands if the video is used non stop. The solution to giving non-stop 8K is to reduced the amount of processing. It is not just a matter of reducing the number of MP but reducing it to a 1:1 operation so that the no (or minimal) aggregation operations needs to be done, thus reducing the heat generated.


----------



## jam05 (Sep 23, 2020)

This is pure clic bait started by Canon watch


----------



## David - Sydney (Sep 23, 2020)

padam said:


> Cinema RAW Light codec is coming to more Canon cameras, Sony can also develop something similar or they might just make internal Prores RAW possible in a few years' time, so Type A won't be much of a problem, although their Cinema cameras are sticking to Type B, which is a bit annoying.


It will be interesting to see Canon's next firmware release for R5/R6. Lower bit rates could mean internal dual recording to both SD and CFe B cards and potentially could improve record times eg if only the SD card is used. External recording should also be possible for 8K cinema raw and 4k120 with longer record times. The size difference between type A vs type B isn't a major issue (IMHO) but type A are limited to 1 PCIe lane and it could end up being an orphan format and hence stay expensive eg memory stick.


----------



## David - Sydney (Sep 23, 2020)

nchoh said:


> All else being equal, a larger body with a heat exhaust would most likely not be an effective solution. The heat exhaust would still burn your hands if the video is used non stop. The solution to giving non-stop 8K is to reduced the amount of processing. It is not just a matter of reducing the number of MP but reducing it to a 1:1 operation so that the no (or minimal) aggregation operations needs to be done, thus reducing the heat generated.


Isn't 8k raw already a 1:1 operation? There is no processing (or minimal) of the data. The only issue at the moment is that the HDMI port can't handle that bandwidth so internal CFe recording is the only option. Lower bit rate will mean processing the data but could mean less heat generation if only recording to the SD card (not the CFe card) or externally with no cards.


----------



## nchoh (Sep 23, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Isn't 8k raw already a 1:1 operation? There is no processing (or minimal) of the data. The only issue at the moment is that the HDMI port can't handle that bandwidth so internal CFe recording is the only option. Lower bit rate will mean processing the data but could mean less heat generation if only recording to the SD card (not the CFe card) or externally with no cards.



Raw means that there is no processing to JPEG, so yes, RAW is less processing.

But, as I understand it, no. By 1:1 I mean 1 sensor pixel to 1 output pixel.


----------



## David - Sydney (Sep 24, 2020)

nchoh said:


> Raw means that there is no processing to JPEG, so yes, RAW is less processing.
> 
> But, as I understand it, no. By 1:1 I mean 1 sensor pixel to 1 output pixel.


8k/30 raw is for video but you mention jpeg. jpeg are for stills (or 33mp frame grabs from 8k raw video)
8k raw video is full sensor width (but not height ie not 3:2 aspect ratio). 
45mp still raw is also full sensor width but in 3:2
Both video and still raw mean minimal processing required compared to 4k60 HQ or jpeg stills.
Future R5 firmware promised by Canon with 8K cinema will be raw video compressed (via processor) to lower bit rates. Hopefully not a lossy compression so still technically raw video.


----------



## nchoh (Sep 24, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> 8k/30 raw is for video but you mention jpeg. jpeg are for stills (or 33mp frame grabs from 8k raw video)
> 8k raw video is full sensor width (but not height ie not 3:2 aspect ratio).
> 45mp still raw is also full sensor width but in 3:2
> Both video and still raw mean minimal processing required compared to 4k60 HQ or jpeg stills.
> Future R5 firmware promised by Canon with 8K cinema will be raw video compressed (via processor) to lower bit rates. Hopefully not a lossy compression so still technically raw video.



Sorry, my bad. Frankly, I don't do video so I don't know anything about RAW video. I guess that RAW video is analogous to RAW stills?

But regardless, 1:1 for 8K basically means no need to aggregate multiple sensor pixels into 1 output pixel. That is the reason Sony and Canon are going for the 12+ MP.


----------



## jolyonralph (Sep 24, 2020)

nchoh said:


> Sorry, my bad. Frankly, I don't do video so I don't know anything about RAW video. I guess that RAW video is analogous to RAW stills?
> 
> But regardless, 1:1 for 8K basically means no need to aggregate multiple sensor pixels into 1 output pixel. That is the reason Sony and Canon are going for the 12+ MP.



I don't really understand how raw video works but:

If raw video is truly raw video (as in the raw output of the sensor) then it's always going to be 1:1 because it's the sensor output without processing. 

If it actually means 'uncompressed video, but processed to an RGB (or whatever colour format) stream then it still has to aggregate multiple sensor pixels into one output pixel because of the bayer colour filter. 

and 12MP isn't going to give you 8K video, only 4K of course.


The processing required to downsample (for example) an 8K screen to a 4K image is tiny compared to the processing power required to do H.265 video compression on an image. 

I suspect the heat is not so much caused by the resampling of the image, but simply the moving around of such large amounts of data from sensor -> cpu -> card. So where you lose out with extra processing for the H.265 compression you gain in the much reduced throughput from CPU to card. Of course all these aspects add up in the end. 

I have no idea how to make a camera do all this and keep cool. Seems I'm not alone


----------



## nchoh (Sep 24, 2020)

jolyonralph said:


> I don't really understand how raw video works but:
> 
> If raw video is truly raw video (as in the raw output of the sensor) then it's always going to be 1:1 because it's the sensor output without processing.
> 
> ...



Correct, hence, the teardowns have reported that shooting RAW video does not overheat the camera.

But if you are selling a camera to folk who do not want to take the raw file and process it on their PC, then having a camera that can produce processed video without overheating is what you need. For that to happen, 12 MP or whatever 1:1 requires.


----------



## Pooshoes (Oct 18, 2020)

StevenA said:


> The Sony a7S III, while being a very capable video camera, is a lackluster stills performer. Yet they want almost as much for it as the R5. I hope that any attempt by Canon to do a similarly capable video-centric camera comes in at around $2,500.


I have an a7sIII and despite the obvious resolution limitations, it is a fantastic stills camera.


----------



## Michael Clark (Oct 19, 2020)

twoheadedboy said:


> Neither of the things you mention is "professional" (hobbyist, semi-pro). Photojournalism would definitely find 12 MP sufficient, as they switched to DSLR long before 12 MP was even available. Of course, I don't know why such a person would want this camera over a 1DX III, and not even because it shoots at 20 MP (though it doesn't hurt). I guess if they were doing a lot of on-the-spot interviews without a crew and still wanted to shoot photos and wanted to do it with 1-body 1-lens so they could chase down their targets more effectively lol.



When PJs switched to digital, newsprint was still their primary medium. That is no longer the case. And while web distributed images do not need massive file sizes, 12MP is a tad lower than what many would prefer in order to be able to frame "loose" and leave the cropping/aspect ratio up to the layout editor.


----------



## Michael Clark (Oct 19, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> You can have "heat dissapation" and "sealing" at the same time. If you have a thin separate portion of one or more sides or back screen, you can have an area that does the cooling *and* is designed to be just fine getting wet from the outside, with a metal (or other, possibly liquid) conduit to transfer the heat from the sealed camera to the seal-removed cooler. The cooler would have slow air flow through it powered by designed gravity assist (preferably) or by a micro fan.



You can have sealed heat exchangers. Otherwise dirty water nuclear reactors would not be possible. Nor would heat pumps, AC/refrigeration, water cooled internal combustion engines, etc.


----------



## usern4cr (Oct 19, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> You can have sealed heat exchangers. Otherwise dirty water nuclear reactors would not be possible. Nor would heat pumps, AC/refrigeration, water cooled internal combustion engines, etc.


Yes, you can seal everything, including your heat exchangers. But what is going to get the heat out of the exchanger, particularly if there is no fan? That's why I mention the heat exchanger being very unsealed so there can be a flow of heated air up through it as the air rises naturally. It won't hurt it at all to get wet (and in all probability it would cool off faster if rained on, which is even better). The only thing that must be sealed is the camera portion.


----------



## Michael Clark (Oct 19, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> Yes, you can seal everything, including your heat exchangers. But what is going to get the heat out of the exchanger, particularly if there is no fan? That's why I mention the heat exchanger being very unsealed so there can be a flow of heated air up through it as the air rises naturally. It won't hurt it at all to get wet (and in all probability it would cool off faster if rained on, which is even better). The only thing that must be sealed is the camera portion.



You realize that the heat in the dirty water of a nuclear reactor is exchanged to the clean water side which is then cooled in non-sealed cooling towers? That the heat in refrigerant is exchanged into open air without releasing any freon into the air? Just because one side of the heat exchanger is sealed does not mean the other side must be sealed. The point is heat can be exchanged from one side of a sealed system to the outside of that sealed system.


----------



## usern4cr (Oct 20, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> You realize that the heat in the dirty water of a nuclear reactor is exchanged to the clean water side which is then cooled in non-sealed cooling towers? That the heat in refrigerant is exchanged into open air without releasing any freon into the air? Just because one side of the heat exchanger is sealed does not mean the other side must be sealed. The point is heat can be exchanged from one side of a sealed system to the outside of that sealed system.


I agree that "heat can be exchanged from one side of a sealed system to the outside of that sealed system". That's what I said needed to be done. I'm also saying that a conduit of metal or circulating liquid could transfer heat from that sealed system (the camera innards) to a non-sealed cooling portion of the camera body with air flowing up through it to better dissipate the heat without using electricity.

As far as a nuclear reactor goes, I'll take your word for it as I don't think Canon will be adding one of those to their bodies just yet.


----------



## SteveC (Oct 20, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> As far as a nuclear reactor goes, I'll take your word for it as I don't think Canon will be adding one of those to their bodies just yet.



I got the sense that the two of you were actually saying the same thing, and Michael didn't realize it.

Just wait until the 16K sensor @240 fps, with the downsampled 8K mode added on as an extra. LP-U235N battery (which won't need recharging for fifty years) and the body will have one of those white cooling towers, to boot.


----------

