# Poll: Are you going to be preordering the Canon EOS 90D or Canon EOS M6 Mark II?



## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 21, 2019)

> We are a week away from the official announcements for the Canon EOS 90D and Canon EOS M6 Mark II, two cameras that have pretty much leaked in full. Though there are some questions that still need to be answered, as the specification sheets did have some errors in them.
> That said, with what you know already are you ready to put down your hard-earned money for either of these pretty impressive cameras (on paper)?
> *Full specifications:* Canon EOS 90D // Canon EOS M6 Mark II



Continue reading...


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## cullen171 (Aug 21, 2019)

As having owned both the 7D and 7Dii I don’t see this as a replacement like it was possibly thought to be. More like just an update to the 80 D only. 
Hoping they do an updated 7D version for the R line.


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## LSXPhotog (Aug 21, 2019)

I'm still waiting for the official specs, but based on what I can see right now, I will be ordering the M6 Mark II and eventually the M5 Mark II. We'll see what the video settings end up being because one of these has to be my video camera in the long run. I am currently using the M50 for that role and the M5 for recreational photography and this could potentially replace that camera for me - we'll see.

When the M5 Mark II comes out I may regret the purchase, but I believe I'll sell the M5 and M50 to fund that purchase when the time comes.


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## Philrp (Aug 21, 2019)

APS-C sensor equipped EOS R is what I'm waiting for. Or a really beefy EOS M5 Mark II that is MIA


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## maxfactor9933 (Aug 21, 2019)

HELL NO


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## Drcampbellicu (Aug 21, 2019)

cullen171 said:


> As having owned both the 7D and 7Dii I don’t see this as a replacement like it was possibly thought to be. More like just an update to the 80 D only.
> Hoping they do an updated 7D version for the R line.



Completely agree
I just haven’t seen anything close to what I want. I am willing to go with the 5D or 1D replacement if it’s mirrorless and comes in the next year. 
Looking for improvements in tracking/focus and speed. I really don’t want 50 plus megapixels and don’t think the R line is a contender


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## maxfactor9933 (Aug 21, 2019)

I was waiting for a 32 MP, No AA filter with min 14 stop DR , Mag body with joystick, dual card, 12 FPS, uncropped 4k, with 1dxmk2 focus system for like 2500 USD APSC for bird shooting but I think it never gonna happen.


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## Viggo (Aug 21, 2019)

I voted no, but that’s because I have a camera and not ever in the marked for aps-c, so not because that camera itself doesn’t look great.


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## unfocused (Aug 21, 2019)

I never pre-order anything. I don't believe in paying the early adopter premium. So, I voted "no" to both, but that's not an indicator of my interest in the 90D, which I will definitely be buying to replace my wife's 80D. It just won't be right away.


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## JoeDavid (Aug 21, 2019)

I can’t figure out why anyone would buy an EOS M camera since Canon doesn’t provide a decent selection of lenses for the format. Adapting EF lenses to it results in a big lens with a very small camera attached; e.g. very poor ergonomics. The RF mount is clearly Canon’s future direction.


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## mb66energy (Aug 21, 2019)

No because I need mirrorless AND EVF AND flippy screen for my style of photgraphing.

One thing could have been very interesting: EVF-compatibility of 90D for e.g. video, bright contralight (to save eyes). The full flexibility and best of both worlds ...


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## masterpix (Aug 21, 2019)

cullen171 said:


> As having owned both the 7D and 7Dii I don’t see this as a replacement like it was possibly thought to be. More like just an update to the 80 D only.
> Hoping they do an updated 7D version for the R line.


Unfortunately, I have to agree, beside the sensor size, I don't see the upgrade to the 7DII, it does not have two card slot, and many features already in the 7DII. It does have WiFi built in, but I seldom used it. Sliding the SD Micro card (from the card atapor) into the memory of the cell phone, or with the adaptor to the PC were much fater.


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## i_SH (Aug 21, 2019)

Perhaps if zooms with aperture of 1.8-4 appear for these cameras.


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## Adelino (Aug 21, 2019)

No new cameras needed here. But they sound nice!


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## amorse (Aug 21, 2019)

I like to be able to see and touch things before I buy them, and I hardly every buy things online let alone pre-ordering anything. With that said, I could see myself picking up the M6II as a travel camera if the specs hold true and the price is right. 

A travel camera isn't my top photography purchase priority, but it is on the list. I highly doubt I'd be an early adopter, but an eventual buyer?... maybe!


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## blackcoffee17 (Aug 21, 2019)

JoeDavid said:


> I can’t figure out why anyone would buy an EOS M camera since Canon doesn’t provide a decent selection of lenses for the format. Adapting EF lenses to it results in a big lens with a very small camera attached; e.g. very poor ergonomics. The RF mount is clearly Canon’s future direction.



Not everyone needs 50 lenses. Some people are happy with 2 or 3. The M can be perfect for a light travel setup. Just some of the lenses:

22mm, 11-22, 32mm, Sigma 16mm 1.4, Samyang 12mm, Sigma 56mm, 100 or 60mm macro and maybe a 70-200 F4 adapted.
These are all the lenses i would need.

I agree tho that Sony is in better position by having 2 mounts perfectly compatible, just like Canon had with EF and EFs


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## OpaHardrock (Aug 21, 2019)

no GPS in the year 2019? - not funny!


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## jvillain (Aug 21, 2019)

The 70/80D was always a great camera for people stepping up from a Rebel/Kiss. The price wasn't crushing, you could use your existing lenses, has lots of features and it was a major step up from the Rebels. I think this will do well for people still looking for that in a DSLR. Having said that I am not sure there will be a lot of demand for the 90D from people that allready have a 80D/7D. Many are looking at mirrorless or won't see this as a large enough upgrade. 

Because of that I don't see this as being a preorder monster. But I think it will be in the line up for a long time and I think they will move a pretty good number of units over time, though not as many as the 80D. DSLRs just make more sense in some situations like when battery life is a factor or in action situations. Crop makes sense from a size, weight, reach, cost perspective. If my 80D fails I will pick one up even though I prefer mirrorless. I want to love the M series but I just don't. I am happy for people who do however.


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## jvillain (Aug 21, 2019)

OpaHardrock said:


> no GPS in the year 2019? - not funny!


Available as an ascesory.


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## Drcampbellicu (Aug 21, 2019)

maxfactor9933 said:


> I was waiting for a 32 MP, No AA filter with min 14 stop DR , Mag body with joystick, dual card, 12 FPS, uncropped 4k, with 1dxmk2 focus system for like 2500 USD APSC for bird shooting but I think it never gonna happen.



Love those specs
I would pay even more for it 

My current bodies are falling apart from all the outdoor trips and abuse and I’ve got to make a purchase soon


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## masterpix (Aug 21, 2019)

maxfactor9933 said:


> I was waiting for a 32 MP, No AA filter with min 14 stop DR , Mag body with joystick, dual card, 12 FPS, uncropped 4k, with 1dxmk2 focus system for like 2500 USD APSC for bird shooting but I think it never gonna happen.


you are describing the spec of the 7DIII... which, as it seems, will not be :-(


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## Dantana (Aug 21, 2019)

amorse said:


> I like to be able to see and touch things before I buy them, and I hardly every buy things online let alone pre-ordering anything. With that said, I could see myself picking up the M6II as a travel camera if the specs hold true and the price is right.
> 
> A travel camera isn't my top photography purchase priority, but it is on the list. I highly doubt I'd be an early adopter, but an eventual buyer?... maybe!


Exact same reaction from me. The M6II is intriguing, but if I buy a new body in the near future it will likely be of the R flavor. But who knows.


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## malarcky (Aug 21, 2019)

This will be just like the 6D MkII. Haters will abound, just like they did then. The camera will come out, and all will be resolved. This is propaganda 101. It will continue as an experiment into how far they can go to trash a product in the quest for dominance of the social media market. They failed to dog the 80D, or the 6D MkII.
It's already began, and watch how many detractors vs. unbiased observers chime in. I'm predicting 3 or 4 to 1. Mark my words.
I would like to continue to use my ES series lenses into the future, and the 90D may be the last of the camera's that will be using them as an option. The hate for this camera will trump all others, as that's where we are with social media now. Maybe the hate for this camera can drop the price quickly, like they did with the 6D MkII. Watch for an insignificant review to be pounced upon, like the ISO 100 fallacy of the 6D MkII's performance. Like the 6D MkII's performance, it will be a great seller.


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## Peter in Boulder (Aug 21, 2019)

When will we know pricing?


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## Sharlin (Aug 21, 2019)

I bought the 80D almost on day one, the only such purchase I've ever made. The 90D is pretty much what I expected and wished for, but the 80D functions perfectly well, so... maybe next year I might think about upgrading. To what body exactly, remains to be seen.


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## BroncosFan (Aug 21, 2019)

cullen171 said:


> As having owned both the 7D and 7Dii I don’t see this as a replacement like it was possibly thought to be. More like just an update to the 80 D only.
> Hoping they do an updated 7D version for the R line.



This aggravates the snot out of me! Been waiting for news of a 7Diii for quite a while. I’m not a mirrorless fan and if the replacement is a camera that barely matches other systems 3 year old cameras, what a slap in the face.


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## LesC (Aug 21, 2019)

Had an 80D and was never that impressed with the sensor; too much noise. Sold that & my 6D to get an EOS R which compliments my 6D MKII well. If I wanted an even smaller body, I go for the EOS RP over a cropped sensor mirrorless ...


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## bsbeamer (Aug 21, 2019)

Have there been any reports on 90D pricing?


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## Tom W (Aug 21, 2019)

Pre-order? No.
Might be interested in the M6 II, or an M5 if/when it comes out. 

Kind of holding out on the next RF mount body.


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## rikstir (Aug 21, 2019)

I have a 5DMK4 and would like a back up aps-c camera for a little more reach on the telephoto side but it really depends on the image quality for me. The jump to 32mp is quite a large one in an aps-c camera. If the high ISO noise isn’t as good as the 7DMK2 then probably will stay with full frame for a second camera. Either the 1DX replacement or the R equivalent.


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## navastronia (Aug 21, 2019)

No to both, waiting (and saving $$$$) for a mirrorless 1D equivalent.


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## YuengLinger (Aug 21, 2019)

When the time comes to replace the 80D, maybe the 90D. Count me as another new Rf holdout.

The results of this poll suggest this site continues to be mostly FF shooters?


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## Dphotos (Aug 21, 2019)

30 years with Canon and I have decided to sell all my Canon gear and move over to Sony. I gave Canon time to come up with a professional mirrorless camera and they have failed. These cameras coming out are not of professonal grade. To me these are travel cameras. A professional grade camera is one that is also weather sealed and a camera can take a beating of daily use. Two card slots and a camera and that shoot a great number of shots in the silent mode before the buffer kicks in and a camera is is able to use all my Canon lenses.


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## Scenes (Aug 21, 2019)

Yes. As a filmmaker that currently shoots with an 80D this is exactly what I wanted. I can swap it into my existing kit and start shooting 4K with minimum fuss and a decent ish file size for video. 

As a canon shooter my only option for 4K before was to move to the full frame 5D but with its 1.7 crop shooting 4K it would essentially be the same as the 90D just with 5x the file size for footage so this is perfect. 

Would I have loved 4K 60p with DPAF. Sure. But it’s not a deal breaker. I guess that’s for the 2022 100d? Actually what would they call the next one?


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## navastronia (Aug 21, 2019)

Dphotos said:


> 30 years with Canon and I have decided to sell all my Canon gear and move over to Sony. I gave Canon time to come up with a professional mirrorless camera and they have failed. These cameras coming out are not of professonal grade. To me these are travel cameras. A professional grade camera is one that is also weather sealed and a camera can take a beating of daily use. Two card slots and a camera and that shoot a great number of shots in the silent mode before the buffer kicks in and a camera is is able to use all my Canon lenses.



k


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## KT (Aug 21, 2019)

JoeDavid said:


> I can’t figure out why anyone would buy an EOS M camera since Canon doesn’t provide a decent selection of lenses for the format. Adapting EF lenses to it results in a big lens with a very small camera attached; e.g. very poor ergonomics. The RF mount is clearly Canon’s future direction.


In was thinking along the same lines like you, then I came across the three Sigma primes (16, 30, 56mm) for the M line, granted they are all adapted from the M43 system but still, these are reasonably small fast (F1.4) primes priced within reach and they come from a well-reputable manufacturer. I can see myself getting one or two of these Sigmas to go with the M6 mark II.


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## EduPortas (Aug 21, 2019)

navastronia said:


> No to both, waiting (and saving $$$$) for a mirrorless 1D equivalent.



That's going to be a long wait, friend. No native mirrorless high-end lenses in either M or RF mounts.

EF and EF-S still hold a firm grip in CanonLand. Chances are either a new 1D or 7D will be a mirror flapper.


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## AJ (Aug 21, 2019)

I'm good for camera bodies right now. But If I was in the market I'd consider either or both.


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## amorse (Aug 21, 2019)

malarcky said:


> This will be just like the 6D MkII. Haters will abound, just like they did then. The camera will come out, and all will be resolved. This is propaganda 101. It will continue as an experiment into how far they can go to trash a product in the quest for dominance of the social media market. They failed to dog the 80D, or the 6D MkII.
> It's already began, and watch how many detractors vs. unbiased observers chime in. I'm predicting 3 or 4 to 1. Mark my words.
> I would like to continue to use my ES series lenses into the future, and the 90D may be the last of the camera's that will be using them as an option. The hate for this camera will trump all others, as that's where we are with social media now. Maybe the hate for this camera can drop the price quickly, like they did with the 6D MkII. Watch for an insignificant review to be pounced upon, like the ISO 100 fallacy of the 6D MkII's performance. Like the 6D MkII's performance, it will be a great seller.


Yea, I'll be curious to the reactions as well. I've been peeking at how how the rumours have been received on other sites, and it hasn't seemed as negative as past releases, but who knows to what issue or shortcoming people will gravitate. As it stands right now, the M6II and 90D, on paper, seem pretty competitive with just about everything else on the market. What's the natural competitor for a 90D or an M6? An a6400/a6500? D7500/D500? XT30/XT3?


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## KT (Aug 21, 2019)

Peter in Boulder said:


> When will we know pricing?


The 90D promo video ended with a price listing of 1399 but I'm not sure in what currency that was. Knowing this came from Canon Australia, maybe the US pricing will be in the $1200 range, or maybe it's all wishful thinking. Whatever it is, Black Friday is only around the corner and I'm sure there will be a price war between Canon and Sony over who claims the title of who is the real APS-C King !!!!


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## miketcool (Aug 21, 2019)

The M6 Mkii is pretty close to getting my attention on an APS-C sensor. If you're going to go small, go small! The lens quality for the offerings are good enough for carrying around something so small and compact. Right now my EOS R has been heavily favored over the 5Dmkiv. The weight savings means I get this out more and shoot more. The best camera you have is the one you use. Period. The abilities of this little M body may make it easier for me to piece together the video BTS of my photographic journeys.


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## navastronia (Aug 21, 2019)

EduPortas said:


> That's going to be a long wait, friend. No native mirrorless high-end lenses in either M or RF mounts.
> 
> EF and EF-S still hold a firm grip in CanonLand. Chances are either a new 1D or 7D will be a mirror flapper.



1) I don't mind the wait.
2) There is likely not going to be another 7D.

EDIT: "No native mirrorless high-end lenses?" Wut? 









Canon RF 85mm F1.2L USM review


Is this the lens that could make Canon portrait photographers switch to the mirrorless RF format?




www.digitalcameraworld.com


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## rosstcorbett (Aug 21, 2019)

I would absolutely buy the 90D if there were some great lenses to go with it such as a 10-18mm but of L series quality.


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## KeithBreazeal (Aug 21, 2019)

Nope! When I see something that can truly upscale my 5D Mark IV, I'm in. I still haven't replaced my 7D- it still works great. Meanwhile, I keep throwing money into my savings account.


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## Etienne (Aug 21, 2019)

JoeDavid said:


> I can’t figure out why anyone would buy an EOS M camera since Canon doesn’t provide a decent selection of lenses for the format. Adapting EF lenses to it results in a big lens with a very small camera attached; e.g. very poor ergonomics. The RF mount is clearly Canon’s future direction.


These lenses are the only thing that keeps me interested in Canon at all right now, and they are all excellent value in a small light package. In my opinion, they are the best little lenses available for any of the APS-C mirrorless systems:
EF-M 11-22 IS
EF-M 22 f/2
EF-M 32 f/1.4

The M6 mk II is not particularly spectacular looking to me. As usual, the devil is in what Canon withholds unnecessarily compared to competitors. I'll see what the M5 II looks like, which may lead to me selling my remaining Canon gear.


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## Jasonmc89 (Aug 21, 2019)

maxfactor9933 said:


> I was waiting for a 32 MP, No AA filter with min 14 stop DR , Mag body with joystick, dual card, 12 FPS, uncropped 4k, with 1dxmk2 focus system for like 2500 USD APSC for bird shooting but I think it never gonna happen.


That would be a beauty!


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## Quackator (Aug 21, 2019)

No viewfinder with flash transmitter in hot shoe -> no preorder. And I am too old for DSLRs, let alone APS-C DSLRs.

Give me a R series camera with the ergonomics of a 5D Mk IV.
Tool size, not toy size.


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## AlanF (Aug 21, 2019)

maxfactor9933 said:


> I was waiting for a 32 MP, No AA filter with min 14 stop DR , Mag body with joystick, dual card, 12 FPS, uncropped 4k, with 1dxmk2 focus system for like 2500 USD APSC for bird shooting but I think it never gonna happen.


I was hoping for the same for $500,


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## Don Haines (Aug 21, 2019)

Based on incomplete rumoured spec sheets and an unknown price and availability?


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## privatebydesign (Aug 21, 2019)

Dphotos said:


> 30 years with Canon and I have decided to sell all my Canon gear and move over to Sony. I gave Canon time to come up with a professional mirrorless camera and they have failed. These cameras coming out are not of professonal grade. To me these are travel cameras. A professional grade camera is one that is also weather sealed and a camera can take a beating of daily use. Two card slots and a camera and that shoot a great number of shots in the silent mode before the buffer kicks in and a camera is is able to use all my Canon lenses.


And who has brought out lenses the equal of the current RF lineup? Nobody, and Canon will only get better from here.


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## flip314 (Aug 21, 2019)

The 90D looks like a great camera, but to me it's not significantly better than the 80D I own. I am looking to add a second body in the next year, but it will be a FF mirrorless.


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## RayValdez360 (Aug 21, 2019)

HELL TO THE NO


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## TPatS (Aug 21, 2019)

Is pre ordering from canon a good idea? I'm worried about early units having potential quality issues or is canon pretty good in sorting out quality before a product hits production?


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## Don Haines (Aug 21, 2019)

JoeDavid said:


> I can’t figure out why anyone would buy an EOS M camera since Canon doesn’t provide a decent selection of lenses for the format. Adapting EF lenses to it results in a big lens with a very small camera attached; e.g. very poor ergonomics. The RF mount is clearly Canon’s future direction.


Because it is small and lower cost. 

Lenses: 22F2, 28F3.5 macro, 11-22F4-5.6, 32F1.4, 55-200F4-6.3, 18-150F3.5-6.3, 15-45F3.5-6.3. Not very many native lenses....yet....

Third party we have 6.5F2 fisheye, 7.5F2.8 fisheye, 8F3.5 fisheye, 10F2.8, 12F2.8, 16F2.0, 21F1.4, 25F1.8, 28F2.8, 35F0.95, 35F1.2, 35F1.4, 35F1.7, 40F0.85!, 50F1.2, 50F1.8, 50F2.0, 55F1.4, 60F2.8 macro, 85F1.8, 300F6.3, 6-11F3.5 fisheye, 18-200F3.5-6.3

And every one of those lenses is small and most are low cost.


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## AntlerstoPeaks (Aug 21, 2019)

TPatS said:


> Is pre ordering from canon a good idea? I'm worried about early units having potential quality issues or is canon pretty good in sorting out quality before a product hits production?



Nikon and Sony typically have lots of early issues, but never heard of a canon having a problem.


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## unfocused (Aug 21, 2019)

TPatS said:


> Is pre ordering from canon a good idea? I'm worried about early units having potential quality issues or is canon pretty good in sorting out quality before a product hits production?


Most people pre-order from a retailer, not directly from Canon. Every new release is going to have some problems, usually minor, that requires a firmware fix. 

The biggest reason not to pre-order is that you will end up paying the early adopter's price, whereas if you wait the price almost always falls. There are some exceptions: The 1D series seldom drops significantly for at least a year or two and the 5Ds R held steady until just recently. But models like the 90D usually see some discounts often beginning in the first six months or so after introduction. Canon starts offering rebates and bundles and retailers, anxious to move stock, offer discounts through the Canon Price Watch Street Price Program and other special deals.


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## MR. Linde (Aug 21, 2019)

Drcampbellicu said:


> Completely agree
> I just haven’t seen anything close to what I want. I am willing to go with the 5D or 1D replacement if it’s mirrorless and comes in the next year.
> Looking for improvements in tracking/focus and speed. I really don’t want 50 plus megapixels and don’t think the R line is a contender


In these days of mirrorless cameras and this maybe being the last Canon DSLR I was hoping for a 7D/80D on steroids which at least would match the Nikon D500. The 7DII´s AF is still better than this new 90D. Upgrading from the 80D for bird shooting seems pointless...guess I´ll go for the Nikon D500 then...will miss my EF 100-400mk.II though... If there is some mirrorless wonder in the making why even bother releasing this 90D??


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## CafeAvian (Aug 21, 2019)

If it was an m5 instead of m6, I would be considering it.


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## ronaldbyram (Aug 22, 2019)

cullen171 said:


> As having owned both the 7D and 7Dii I don’t see this as a replacement like it was possibly thought to be. More like just an update to the 80 D only.
> Hoping they do an updated 7D version for the R line.


I too am holding off. my 7d ii does have a issue that I have to send into canon for repair. I have a 70D and a 60D as backup. But I too hope for a sports camera.


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## GeminiConnect (Aug 22, 2019)

Sigh. Too little, too late Canon. I've already taken my business to Sony for compact, crop-sensor bodies. Still holding out on a 1DX-esque mirrorless camera.


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## Macoose (Aug 22, 2019)

I would love to buy a new 90D, but it's not the right time for me.
I'd like to have a flippy screen for those times when I have to shoot over a crowd (I'm short). I really don't care about Ibis or one card slot nor will I criticize those who do.
For now I'm happy with what I have. I hope both cameras sell well.


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## PeterT (Aug 22, 2019)

I do not consider these cameras.
And it is not only because I am not an early adopter.

About 16 months ago I upgraded from a "very old" Rebel - 450D to 80D. I did it after long period of waiting. I did not want the huge body of 80D (yes, for me it is huge and heavy even if many CR members will disagree), but I wanted either a Canon body with a newer APS-C sensor and AF micro adjustments or a mirrorless APS-C body (any brand) with IBIS. After the release of 77D (crippled, without AF MA) I was considering all reasonable options (actually only three) and ended up with a second hand 80D. 
I like all its functions, especially the sensor (much better, of course, than my old 450D) and AF micro adjustments (helped me to use my 85 1.8 and 100 2.0 with more confidence), I can make excellent family/travel shots with it. But, as I feared, it is too big for me, so I tend to leave it at home more frequently. And I am still missing stabilization for many of my lenses.

So a new Canon DSLR body would interest me if it either had IBIS or was smaller/lighter than 80D and had AF MA, but preferably both these features. An M body with IBIS and fully articulated screen would attract my interest too.
Unfortunately, 90D and M6 II tick none of these boxes...
(Maybe Fuji X-T40 will have IBIS...?)


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## kreb's cyclist (Aug 22, 2019)

No. I use the 80D. I love the flippy screen, comes in handy for macro, a fact that everybody seems to overlook. I wish other manufacturers would have it. Fuji kind of has it in the XT3 now. Have no interest in video. I was hoping for NO AA filter, IBIS would be nice, better DR, eye tracking focus, built in focus stacking (which they might have). As a macro shooter I'm going for great detail and Canon's insistence of keeping the AA filter (excepts on the 5ds R) is maddening. Might switch to Nikon or Sony. Canon just can't keep up. It's downright puzzling. Will probably go mirrorless if I make the switch.


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## beegee (Aug 22, 2019)

I am not buying anything until I see the roadmap. The R mount lenses are too enticing to invest in a body that cannot use the R-mount. 90D is not really a replacement for my 7D MkII yet. Need to see how it performs with my use cases primarily geared to wildlife. I will not depart from Canon based on what they are doing with the glass. I love what I have and used and will keep using Canon glass as long as they are not overrun by what Sony offers. I had been an early adopter for the NEX-5/7, love my Fuji X100T and X-T3, but my Canon glasses is my key investment and I will stick to it until I see no end in sight from what Canon has to offer. Olympics 2020 is my horizon to make a decision.


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## flip314 (Aug 22, 2019)

PeterT said:


> About 16 months ago I upgraded from a "very old" Rebel - 450D to 80D. I did it after long period of waiting. I did not want the huge body of 80D (yes, for me it is huge and heavy even if many CR members will disagree), but I wanted either a Canon body with a newer APS-C sensor and AF micro adjustments or a mirrorless APS-C body (any brand) with IBIS. After the release of 77D (crippled, without AF MA) I was considering all reasonable options (actually only three) and ended up with a second hand 80D.



I'm curious about your description of "crippled" when the 77D is clearly a lower market camera. Was your 450D "crippled" because it didn't have the same features as the 40D, or the 5D?


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## Cryhavoc (Aug 22, 2019)

I picked up a sweet gently used 80D a couple months ago so I am all set, but I am interested in the new M mount body to have a smaller camera than my Eos R.

Currently I have the Eos R, the 80D and a nearly new 1D MK IV, so I'm due for a smaller body Canon


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## venusFivePhotoStudio (Aug 22, 2019)

Dphotos said:


> 30 years with Canon and I have decided to sell all my Canon gear and move over to Sony. I gave Canon time to come up with a professional mirrorless camera and they have failed. These cameras coming out are not of professonal grade. To me these are travel cameras. A professional grade camera is one that is also weather sealed and a camera can take a beating of daily use. Two card slots and a camera and that shoot a great number of shots in the silent mode before the buffer kicks in and a camera is is able to use all my Canon lenses.


Who said these cameras are professional cameras? Besides you... )


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## Cryhavoc (Aug 22, 2019)

Dphotos said:


> 30 years with Canon and I have decided to sell all my Canon gear and move over to Sony. I gave Canon time to come up with a professional mirrorless camera and they have failed. These cameras coming out are not of professonal grade. To me these are travel cameras. A professional grade camera is one that is also weather sealed and a camera can take a beating of daily use. Two card slots and a camera and that shoot a great number of shots in the silent mode before the buffer kicks in and a camera is is able to use all my Canon lenses.



be sure to link to your items for sale so that other Canon users can pick up great hardware on the cheap!
Good luck with Sony. Hope your hands are small and you don't have any sort of arthritis, oh and watch out for knuckle skin issues when using the A7 line with large lenses.


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## stevelee (Aug 22, 2019)

I just bought a mirrorless camera with a popup EVF, so I’m not in the market for something else. The 1” sensor will be adequate for anything I shoot unless I want to use my FF.


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## Mr Majestyk (Aug 22, 2019)

I would never pre-order any camera sight unseen and I'd take the M5 II over the M6 II anyday. But Canon really has to deliver this time, so until we see DR, full video specs, EVF resolution and refresh, lag, etc there is no chance. Also I'm not really wanting to go down the EF-M route, I wish we were reading about APS-C RF mount cameras instead.


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## PeterT (Aug 22, 2019)

flip314 said:


> I'm curious about your description of "crippled" when the 77D is clearly a lower market camera. Was your 450D "crippled" because it didn't have the same features as the 40D, or the 5D?



I hoped, based on the rumors preceding the release of 77D, that it would not be "lower market" (also because it was an XXD, not XXXD). I.e. that Canon finally understood that there are people waiting for a camera as capable as 80D, but in a smaller and lighter body that still takes EF/EF-S lenses without the hassle of adaptors. And that those customers are willing to pay the same price, or even more (if they managed to put really all the functionality to the smaller/lighter body). Or in other words, I hoped that Canon has found enough customers like me, who wait for years (literally, for years) to get a small enough camera that has all those features of 80D which do not demand the huge (for me) and heavy body.

Of course I understand that the smaller/lighter body puts some technical limitations that cannot be overcome. So with smaller/lighter body it is ok to have it all plastic, which probably implies less weather sealing, pentamirror instead of pentaprism and smaller battery and therefore slower maximum FPS. But that should be all the difference. It should be the same level of capabilities.

But when they left out AF MA from 77D (and maybe also a few other things that were not that important to me), I understood that they did not understand (or their market research did not indicate enough customers like me). They still go on with the (for me totally incorrect) idea that all the customers that want more functionality also automatically want a bigger/heavier/sturdier camera body.
So after several years, I stopped waiting and bought the suboptimal (for me, but actually only in size/weight and lack of IBIS) 80D. So that while waiting for a better fit to my needs I have at least a decently capable camera to take pictures with.


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## armd (Aug 22, 2019)

maxfactor9933 said:


> I was waiting for a 32 MP, No AA filter with min 14 stop DR , Mag body with joystick, dual card, 12 FPS, uncropped 4k, with 1dxmk2 focus system for like 2500 USD APSC for bird shooting but I think it never gonna happen.


Unfortunately, we don’t know the specs of the af system apart from 45 cross type af points. If this is simply an 80d af system, it’s no deal.


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## bichex (Aug 22, 2019)

Apparently it is a good and logical evolution of the 80D, but it is not a replacement for the 7D II, and it is logical, it is only a 90D. I have both 7D II and 80D cameras, and 80D is of little use for what I do. An uncertain future for 7D shooters, but hopefully Canon will cover that niche with some good camera, I hope they won't take forever. I will not buy this 90D, I have quite disappointed the 80D and I know that Canon is a leader in sales and makes cameras that think they will sell better than others, it is simply not for me in this case


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## Tangent (Aug 22, 2019)

Not an early adopter, in general. More interested in a M5 mkII to move up from my current M6. But, I can't help wondering, where are the sensors that seemed to be forthcoming based on the patents we saw here a few weeks ago? That's what I'd like to see. Maybe that's why the M5 mkII is delayed? uhh...yeah.


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## mpb001 (Aug 22, 2019)

jvillain said:


> Available as an ascesory.


What other cameras have built in GPS? My 5DIV does, what else? Even a Nikon D850 has no GPS.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 22, 2019)

mpb001 said:


> What other cameras have built in GPS? My 5DIV does, what else? Even a Nikon D850 has no GPS.


My 1DX MkII's do.


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## Danglin52 (Aug 22, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


I think you should have added ‘waiting for the M5 II


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## Cryhavoc (Aug 22, 2019)

Do people actually use the gps? I mean regularly rely on gps exif info?


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## Quarkcharmed (Aug 22, 2019)

Looks I'm late to this feast. 4 pages of thoughts about preordering of unannounced cameras!

Anyway, probably nobody cares, but I'm not preordering any of those cameras. Not interested in 90D but may be interested in M6II as a secondary landscape camera, to use with an EF adapter. I don't care about the viewfinder for landscapes and I don't care about ergonomics. It'll be on a tripod anyway.

Weight is important for hiking, 32Mp for a crop sensor sounds very cool, but most important thing for me is the dynamic range of the sensor. 
With A7RIV, Sony was showing off its 15-stop DR from the beginning. Canon keeps silent. Well they haven't announced it yet but there's nothing about the sensor qualities and DR in the leaked promo videos. So I'll be waiting for the reviews and DR measurements from DxO and photonstophotos, to compare with 5DIV.


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## Quarkcharmed (Aug 22, 2019)

Cryhavoc said:


> Do people actually use the gps? I mean regularly rely on gps exif info?



I use it in 5DIV and I like it. btw, apart from the location data, it seems to be synchronising the clock in the camera.


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## mpb001 (Aug 22, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> My 1DX MkII's do.


Ok, two high end Canon DSLRs do. Maybe a 6D? No other high end or lower cameras have GPS, so why would it be expected in a 90D or 6DII? So the comment about no GPS because its 2019 just doesn’t apply to Canon. It seems like Canon has actually done more than other manufacturers regarding inclusion of GPS at least in some models.


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## Danglin52 (Aug 22, 2019)

blackcoffee17 said:


> Not everyone needs 50 lenses. Some people are happy with 2 or 3. The M can be perfect for a light travel setup. Just some of the lenses:
> 
> 22mm, 11-22, 32mm, Sigma 16mm 1.4, Samyang 12mm, Sigma 56mm, 100 or 60mm macro and maybe a 70-200 F4 adapted.
> These are all the lenses i would need.
> ...


I agree when you look at options with M, EF, EF-S from Canon & Sigma. The EF 70-200 f4 L IS II is actually pretty nice on the current M5. Great images and surprisingly good balance. I would shoot handheld and not use the tripod collar to reduce weight. I have had zero issues with adapted Canon lenses on an M5. I just sold my M5 and plan to buy the M5 II if similar or better spec than rumored M6 II (this is still a rumor)


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## Danglin52 (Aug 22, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> I use it in 5DIV and I like it. btw, apart from the location data, it seems to be synchronising the clock in the camera.


GPS is a battery drain on DSLR and it would make the already poor shot count on mirrorless worse.


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## Quarkcharmed (Aug 22, 2019)

Danglin52 said:


> GPS is a battery drain on DSLR and it would make the already poor shot count on mirrorless worse.



Again to me it's a very good feature. I don't have issues with the battery life, althogh sometimes GPS can drain the battery if you forget to switch the whole camera off. Those who don't want it may disable it. I hope Canon will include it in their rumoured high-res R camera.


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## trounds (Aug 22, 2019)

Such negativity, I'm sure both of these cameras will be successful just like past models. Maybe they are not for everyone, but is still looks to me as a very nice package (both). I have a 7Dmk2 and a M6 and still plan on purchasing both of these cameras. It will be exciting to put both to the test and see how they do. 
However, I still will be looking for a real 7Dkm2 replacement even if it is mirrorless.


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## EduPortas (Aug 22, 2019)

navastronia said:


> EDIT: "No native mirrorless high-end lenses?" Wut?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Other than some recently announced RF lenses the current catalog just ain't there (28-70mm, 50, 85, 24-105).

Still a long ways to go for a comparable sports/action selection like the one already in existence for EF/EF-S cameras.

How about the M mount? No way in hell a current 7D owner is changing his current EF gear for a mirrorless version
of the camera with that "soccer dad" selection of lenses.


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## -pekr- (Aug 22, 2019)

Tangent said:


> Not an early adopter, in general. More interested in a M5 mkII to move up from my current M6. But, I can't help wondering, where are the sensors that seemed to be forthcoming based on the patents we saw here a few weeks ago? That's what I'd like to see. Maybe that's why the M5 mkII is delayed? uhh...yeah.



No chance to get M5 over M6, unless Canon removes aspects of its visual ugliness. It is probably the ugliest camera I have ever seen. It looks so weird, that having it at home, I would not sleep well, keeping my eye on the m5 fearing it is watching me and will chase me around the house. But maybe I just should stop watching the horror movies 

Anyway - I have expected the IBIS being already there. Would piss me off, if m5 II would have one, but m6 II would not. It seems IBIS's not ready for the prime time yet. Wonder what camera is going to be first accomodating one.


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## navastronia (Aug 22, 2019)

EduPortas said:


> Other than some recently announced RF lenses the current catalog just ain't there (28-70mm, 50, 85, 24-105).
> 
> Still a long ways to go for a comparable sports/action selection like the one already in existence for EF/EF-S cameras.
> 
> ...



This is some low energy trolling bruh


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## TrubadorPhotography (Aug 22, 2019)

jvillain said:


> The 70/80D was always a great camera for people stepping up from a Rebel/Kiss. The price wasn't crushing, you could use your existing lenses, has lots of features and it was a major step up from the Rebels. I think this will do well for people still looking for that in a DSLR...
> 
> Because of that I don't see this as being a preorder monster. But I think it will be in the line up for a long time and I think they will move a pretty good number of units over time, though not as many as the 80D. DSLRs just make more sense in some situations like when battery life is a factor or in action situations. Crop makes sense from a size, weight, reach, cost perspective. If my 80D fails I will pick one up even though I prefer mirrorless. I want to love the M series but I just don't. I am happy for people who do however.


You just described me in that first paragraph. I’ve had the T3i for the last 5-1/2 years, and this (the 90D) will be my step-up camera. A top-end crop sensor DSLR with great auto focus, FPS, flip LCD with touch, EF and EF-S lens compatible, mid-level cost, new sensor, with added 4K video capabilities. Been waiting a year for this. Can’t wait to get one in my hands.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 22, 2019)

mpb001 said:


> Ok, two high end Canon DSLRs do. Maybe a 6D? No other high end or lower cameras have GPS, so why would it be expected in a 90D or 6DII? So the comment about no GPS because its 2019 just doesn’t apply to Canon. It seems like Canon has actually done more than other manufacturers regarding inclusion of GPS at least in some models.


6D
6D MkII
5D MkIV
7D MkII
1DX MkII


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## stevelee (Aug 22, 2019)

Cryhavoc said:


> Do people actually use the gps? I mean regularly rely on gps exif info?


I don't *rely* on it on my 6D2. But I do enable it. As suggested above, it sets the internal clock. I don't use it as my travel camera, so I don't think I've had it more than 50 miles from home. Still it is handy sometimes to know quite where I was when certain shots were taken. Birds and woods are often photographed from my deck, so GPS info is not a huge revelation.

For traveling, I use the G7X Mark II (now replaced by the G5X II for my next trips). It lacks GPS, but will get the data from my cell phone if the Cannon Connect app is running and I've paired it with the camera. Most of the time I don't bother with it. If Hadrian's Wall is visible in the shot, I have a good enough idea where it was taken. If I think I will want more location accuracy than that on a series of shots, I'll get out my phone and take a picture. Subject matter and, more importantly, the time data, will let me know where the shots were taken. Every now and then, the cell phone shot turns out to be a good picture in its own right.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 22, 2019)

Cryhavoc said:


> Do people actually use the gps? I mean regularly rely on gps exif info?


I do, but only because Lightroom makes it so darn easy! I thought it was a gimmick at first but after using it I really like it as a search criteria.


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## SecureGSM (Aug 22, 2019)

I may end up buying one for travelling. I won’t be preordering though. I never do. 
As many others I am interested to see how m5 II, when released compares to m6 II from a usability perspective being for me mainly around viewfinder, form factor, menus, etc.


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## SecureGSM (Aug 22, 2019)

-pekr- said:


> No chance to get M5 over M6, unless Canon removes aspects of its visual ugliness. It is probably the ugliest camera I have ever seen. It looks so weird, that having it at home, I would not sleep well, keeping my eye on the m5 fearing it is watching me and will chase me around the house. But maybe I just should stop watching the horror movies
> 
> Anyway - I have expected the IBIS being already there. Would piss me off, if m5 II would have one, but m6 II would not. It seems IBIS's not ready for the prime time yet. Wonder what camera is going to be first accomodating one.


Yup, as you suggested. Probably a good idea is to cut down on that stuff. It is bad for you. Rather. Get out and shoot more and get the most out your excellent Canon gear. It really is.


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## degos (Aug 22, 2019)

JoeDavid said:


> I can’t figure out why anyone would buy an EOS M camera since Canon doesn’t provide a decent selection of lenses for the format. Adapting EF lenses to it results in a big lens with a very small camera attached; e.g. very poor ergonomics. The RF mount is clearly Canon’s future direction.



I'm actually tempted by the M6 Mark II to be mounted to big whites on a tripod, simpy for the pixel density and vibration-free FPS.

But it seems I'd be better waiting for the M5 Mark II assuming that it has a built-in viewfinder. I just find laying-on to a target easier through a viewfinder than on a screen, since my eyeline is guaranteed to be on the same axis as the lens.


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## deltoo (Aug 22, 2019)

There is no way that I ever would preorder something worth more than 40€/$/£.
We have no final specs, logically no tests or anything.
But most important for me, it‘s Not an Upgrade from my 7DII


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## wanako (Aug 22, 2019)

No in my case because I have a 6D Mark II that does what I need and I don't give two shits about video. And for the M6II, while it looks like a fantastic little camera, Fuji has me completely covered there. You'll have to rip my Fujis out of my cold, dead hands.


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## Valvebounce (Aug 22, 2019)

Hi mpb. 
GPS?
Expected in a 90D if it really is supposed to be a replacement for the 7DII as the 7DII has one of the most featured gps by including the compass so that not only do you know where you took a photo, but which way you were looking to get that view! Yes used it quite a bit, just annoyed with the either on or off (no sleep) power modes! 
And nope, never never going to preorder a camera or lens, not paying the early adopter fee to be disappointed by the actual feature set that arrives in my hands! 

Cheers, Graham. 



mpb001 said:


> Ok, two high end Canon DSLRs do. Maybe a 6D? No other high end or lower cameras have GPS, so why would it be expected in a 90D or 6DII? So the comment about no GPS because its 2019 just doesn’t apply to Canon. It seems like Canon has actually done more than other manufacturers regarding inclusion of GPS at least in some models.


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## ChrisCwmbran (Aug 22, 2019)

As with a number of other people who have already responded, I'm looking to replace my 7D Mk 2 but the 90D does not count as a replacement in my eyes.


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## canonmike (Aug 22, 2019)

unfocused said:


> I never pre-order anything. I don't believe in paying the early adopter premium. So, I voted "no" to both, but that's not an indicator of my interest in the 90D, which I will definitely be buying to replace my wife's 80D. It just won't be right away.


I think your strategy is a good one.


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## Architect1776 (Aug 22, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...



I was looking for the M5 MII with IBIS. I want a built in viewfinder.
Other camera will be an RF mount when they get IBIS.
Until then my 7D and 10D are doing just fine.


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## Scenes (Aug 22, 2019)

As I understand it the merging of the 7D with this camera line was only a rumour. And everyone is so mad that the camera announced doesn’t live up to the imagined version in their heads. That doesn’t seem fair to Canon when love it or hate it it seems like a decent upgrade to the XXD line.


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## koenkooi (Aug 22, 2019)

mpb001 said:


> Ok, two high end Canon DSLRs do. Maybe a 6D? No other high end or lower cameras have GPS, so why would it be expected in a 90D or 6DII? So the comment about no GPS because its 2019 just doesn’t apply to Canon. It seems like Canon has actually done more than other manufacturers regarding inclusion of GPS at least in some models.



It looks like all new models support GPS using a bluetooth LE connection to your phone running the Camera Connect app. It works OK with my M50 and RP, but iOS keeps closing the app at random intervals, so I have to check if it's running every few minutes. It's only when I forget to check that it stops :/

There's a big downgrade when compared to using a built-in GPS or the GP-E2: it will only sync the time if you connect over wifi and tell it to sync. The "automatically sync time when connected over wifi" option keeps disabling itself. I try to connect all the cameras to my computer at least once a month to keep the clocks in sync in case I forget to connect-disconnect wifi dance.
The big plus is that the app supports multiple cameras, so having it open enables GPS on the RP and M50.

Another downgrade is that on the R and RP the camera won't read the digital compass from the GP-E2, so it would store the direction you were facing. The original M *does* support all that. The M50 doesn't support the GP-E2 at all.


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## McRphoto (Aug 22, 2019)

Waiting for the M5 MKII. Hope it will have the M50 flip screen and RP viewfinder. Why not IBIS also .


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## mustafa (Aug 22, 2019)

The day the M5 mkII is available I shall trade-in my MkI for it (body only if poss).


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## ohm (Aug 22, 2019)

I’m a happy 80D owner. I love most things about it but stills AF, which is a huge step back and the 90D appears to do little to change that. If the video is improved I might purchase it in a year or so but as of now, the M6ii might make for an interesting update for video recording to the 80D.


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## sid.safari (Aug 22, 2019)

Neither camera has the specs I need. I do however like the direction Canon is going and it has got me excited for the successor of the 1dx mark ii which I am interested in...hopefully they go all out on that because the competition from the Nikons and Sony counterparts will be stiff.


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## colorblinded (Aug 22, 2019)

I'm more interested in an M5 Mark II... then I can convert my M5 to IR. I'm pretty happy with my M kit as it is, although if Canon continues to invest in it I will continue to keep it alive as my smaller/travel kit.


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## PureClassA (Aug 22, 2019)

I was a “No to both” but not because I don’t like these cameras. I think they look great based on we know so far. Of course the official announcement with ALL confirmed specs may alter that opinion.

That said I dont need a crop sensor except perhaps as a compliment to my EOS R for video, and I’d prefer to have an RF mount apsc for that which doesnt exist yet.

And i bought the EOS R primarily for video, but it’s become my travel camera and my 5d3 replacement and is about as compact as I’d like to get. I used to bring my 1DX2 with me on trips.


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## Alastair Norcross (Aug 22, 2019)

EduPortas said:


> Other than some recently announced RF lenses the current catalog just ain't there (28-70mm, 50, 85, 24-105).
> 
> Still a long ways to go for a comparable sports/action selection like the one already in existence for EF/EF-S cameras.
> 
> ...


You do know the M cameras can take all the same lenses as the 7D, and more, right? I've been shooting with the M and M6, and 7D and 7DII for years now. The 70-200 F2.8L IS II is most often on my 7DII. It also works perfectly well on the M6. The adapter adds a tiny amount of weight and length, but since the camera body is so much smaller than the 7DII, the whole combo is still smaller. If and when the sports AF in an M body matches or exceed the 7DII, I will gladly use that M with my 70-200 instead of the 7DII. I already prefer the AF in the M6 over that in the 7DII for everything except sports (and it does OK for sports).


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## Ian_of_glos (Aug 22, 2019)

Please would one of you camera gurus provide me with some advice.
At the moment my main camera is a 5D mk4, and I also have a 5D mk3 that I kept as a spare body when I bought the mk4. In practice I hardly ever use my 5D mk3 as the mk4 is always my first choice for studio work and all other serious projects. However, my 5D mk4 is not a good choice for sports and I have been thinking about trading it in for the 90D for its faster burst rate and the additional reach that the crop sensor would give me with my telephoto lenses. The only thing that is holding me back is a worry that the APS-C sensor might not give me the quality I am used to with my 5D mk3. Also it feels like a downgrade going from a professional body to a camera that is more of a consumer product.
Does anyone have any experience of moving from a full frame camera to a good quality APSC camera such as a 7D mk 2 or an 80D? If so, is it something you would recommend or would I be better off staying with what I have?


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## Quarkcharmed (Aug 22, 2019)

Ian_of_glos said:


> Please would one of you camera gurus provide me with some advice.
> At the moment my main camera is a 5D mk4, and I also have a 5D mk3 that I kept as a spare body when I bought the mk4. In practice I hardly ever use my 5D mk3 as the mk4 is always my first choice for studio work and all other serious projects. However, my 5D mk4 is not a good choice for sports and I have been thinking about trading it in for the 90D for its faster burst rate and the additional reach that the crop sensor would give me with my telephoto lenses. The only thing that is holding me back is a worry that the APS-C sensor might not give me the quality I am used to with my 5D mk3. Also it feels like a downgrade going from a professional body to a camera that is more of a consumer product.



I'd wait for the reviews on the sensor's quality. Presumably it's the new Canon's sensor so there's hope it's better than 5DIV or at least the same.
However, why trade 5DIV for 90D? Trade your 5DIII for 90D. I guess 5DIV and 90D will be a great combo.


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## michi (Aug 22, 2019)

I don't know enough about these cameras to pre-order. I might be interested in the M if it is finally faster in real life operations. If not, I'm not interested in either...


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## TPatS (Aug 22, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> I'd wait for the reviews on the sensor's quality. Presumably it's the new Canon's sensor so there's hope it's better than 5DIV or at least the same.
> However, why trade 5DIV for 90D? Trade your 5DIII for 90D. I guess 5DIV and 90D will be a great combo.


I really hope Canon has stepped up their high iso noise performance on this sensor. They're severely lagging behind the likes of the D7500.


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## michi (Aug 22, 2019)

Ian_of_glos said:


> Please would one of you camera gurus provide me with some advice.
> At the moment my main camera is a 5D mk4, and I also have a 5D mk3 that I kept as a spare body when I bought the mk4. In practice I hardly ever use my 5D mk3 as the mk4 is always my first choice for studio work and all other serious projects. However, my 5D mk4 is not a good choice for sports and I have been thinking about trading it in for the 90D for its faster burst rate and the additional reach that the crop sensor would give me with my telephoto lenses. The only thing that is holding me back is a worry that the APS-C sensor might not give me the quality I am used to with my 5D mk3. Also it feels like a downgrade going from a professional body to a camera that is more of a consumer product.
> Does anyone have any experience of moving from a full frame camera to a good quality APSC camera such as a 7D mk 2 or an 80D? If so, is it something you would recommend or would I be better off staying with what I have?



Agree with the other person. Keep the 5DIV and sell your 5DIII which sees basically no use and get the 90D.


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## slclick (Aug 22, 2019)

Waiting for the M52.


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## Jonathan Rickard (Aug 22, 2019)

I have really been hoping for 5DmkIV level autofocus, especially at f8.

I do fair amount of motorsports photography, but because I am an enthusiastic amateur not a pro I'm ineligible for a media pass putting me farther away from the cars and needing to use longer lenses (often with teleconverters). I currently carry an 80D as a secondary camera to my 5DmkIV, not only for the flexibility of having a second body setup, but also because I sometimes need more reach than my 5DmkIV can provide. I have found that at f8 the 80D hunts a lot, even on in bright sunlight and on still objects; I had hoped for some significant improvement. I've tried both the M5 and M50 but in both cases I found the EVF lag (which is far worse when the autofocus is being taxed) is unacceptable, and I have regularly found both camera crash (for lack of a better description) requiring the camera to be turned off and on to fix.

Due to the issues I've had with both the M5 and M50 I am suspect of using any of the M series (and to a lesser extent an R series) camera, and had hoped that the 90D would be a solution while canon figures out how to get their mirrorless cameras up to their task of sports photography. 

The number and spread of the autofocus points leads me to worry this will be the same autofocus system as in the 80D. I'll need to wait for a bunch or reviews to see if it is the same autofocus or just looks that way.


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## alainb (Aug 22, 2019)

blackcoffee17 said:


> Not everyone needs 50 lenses. Some people are happy with 2 or 3. The M can be perfect for a light travel setup. Just some of the lenses:
> 
> 22mm, 11-22, 32mm, Sigma 16mm 1.4, Samyang 12mm, Sigma 56mm, 100 or 60mm macro and maybe a 70-200 F4 adapted.
> These are all the lenses i would need.
> ...



I agree.
The M Line is a nice setup. 
The 11-22 is an amazing lense. Very light, Sharp with good contrast.
The 22f2 is light, small, sharp with super contrast. Yes is little slow.. but...
The 32 is also an amazing lense. light, Sharp with good contrast and bokeh.
My 50f1.4 and 70-200 f4 is L is top with the adapter.
The M50 is a very good setup to travel for landscape or city and the quality of the picture is good.


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## JoeDavid (Aug 22, 2019)

blackcoffee17 said:


> Not everyone needs 50 lenses. Some people are happy with 2 or 3. The M can be perfect for a light travel setup. Just some of the lenses:
> 
> 22mm, 11-22, 32mm, Sigma 16mm 1.4, Samyang 12mm, Sigma 56mm, 100 or 60mm macro and maybe a 70-200 F4 adapted.
> These are all the lenses i would need.
> ...



I’m not sure why you’d buy Canon if you aren’t buying into the system. Based on Amazon’s reviews (I mean DPReview’s reviews), why would you buy anything but a Sony?


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## Deleted member 378664 (Aug 22, 2019)

I'm waiting for a M5MII. And even when this cam will be available I won't preorder it. I made that mistake with my M5 and paid the early adopter premium. Today I could purchase this cam for less than 50% of that what I paid. Also a M5Mii should convince me on the stills side, I couldn't care less for any video specs to be improved.
A full articulating LCD and more UI responsiveness would be very welcomed.

Frank


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## ashmadux (Aug 22, 2019)

Not a chance.

The main thing for canon cameras now it to *see what's missing first.*

No 24p? Might affect you. No EFCS? Will affect many(raises hand). No IBIS? Argh.

etc. etc. etc.


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## ashmadux (Aug 22, 2019)

JoeDavid said:


> I can’t figure out why anyone would buy an EOS M camera since Canon doesn’t provide a decent selection of lenses for the format. Adapting EF lenses to it results in a big lens with a very small camera attached; e.g. very poor ergonomics. The RF mount is clearly Canon’s future direction.




Let's just chalk it up to you just don't get it 

I'm still using the M1. It's already mirrorless, fwiw.

The 22/f2 is supremely useful in maaaanny situations. + There is no EF/ R mount equivalent.

The arguments about adapters (not enough lenses!) is utter nonsense. My most used lenses on it are the 10-22 EFS, and the 35f2 IS.

The arguments about tiny mirrorless cameras ...is useless. Look at the market...it's not happening. It was a dream and that is dead for lenses and bodies alike.

Lastly, the larger lenses adds needed weight because of something called shutter shock. With no IBIS, you will end up with OOF shots everywhere. The fate of my M50 will be set in the next month or so...even with the 35IS attached, blurry pics everywhere, and it's annoying as all hell.


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## ashmadux (Aug 22, 2019)

rikstir said:


> I have a 5DMK4 and would like a back up aps-c camera for a little more reach on the telephoto side but it really depends on the image quality for me. The jump to 32mp is quite a large one in an aps-c camera. If the high ISO noise isn’t as good as the 7DMK2 then probably will stay with full frame for a second camera. Either the 1DX replacement or the R equivalent.



so far, M50 noise is not awesome, and that's only 25mp.... high iso is okay because you expect a certain amount of noise, however even at iso 400, its immediately noticeable in shadows.


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## Memirsbrunnr (Aug 22, 2019)

I never pre order anything of any product.. I wait at least 3 months after several evaluating reviews and wait for any firmware or driver updates for any electronic equipment i buy.. Might buy a 90D in half a year or maybe when a M5 mark II shows its colours


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## magarity (Aug 22, 2019)

PeterT said:


> After the release of 77D (crippled, without AF MA) I was considering all reasonable options (actually only three) and ended up with a second hand 80D.
> ... But, as I feared, it is too big for me, so I tend to leave it at home more frequently.


It's only about $40 to get a repair center to permanently adjust a lens that needs some adjustment. You should have got a 77D and used it instead of an 80D that has AFMA that you leave at home 
I get than an on-the-run pro may need to buy a lens retail in a hurry and not have a repair center to adjust a lens on the way to a shoot but I just don't get everyone else endlessly complaining about lack of AFMA as a reason to avoid the 77D.


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## sfeinsmith (Aug 22, 2019)

The Canon Rumor's poll showed 60% not favor for mirrorless and non-DSLR camera system with 3779 voted included me. The problem with Canon for failure to continue with DSLR need for professional photographers. The R series system had been total failures with a lot of trouble-prone incidents for both camera and lenses. The 90D is good for moderate knowledge users but not for the professional level. The fact that Canon screwed up everything for the second times. The first time was in 1986 as they stopped with 42mm flange distance length to 44mm caused incompatible issues when they started with the EOS system. This incident caused enormous numbers of professional photographers left Canon for other brands. Now, tremendous numbers of professional photographers included me left Canon for other brands like the first incident. Canon must restore with professional-level DSLR system with improved EF lenses to keep continue with the business. Canon released two financial quarter report was a shocking loss. The third financial quarter report will not surprise with tremendous loss may lead to close the business. Nikon switched to the mirrorless camera with Z systems had the same incident with loss. Now, Nikon is in deep trouble with the financial situation may possibly close the business.


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## PureClassA (Aug 22, 2019)

sfeinsmith said:


> The Canon Rumor's poll showed 60% not favor for mirrorless and non-DSLR camera system with 3779 voted included me. The problem with Canon for failure to continue with DSLR need for professional photographers. The R series system had been total failures with a lot of trouble-prone incidents for both camera and lenses. The 90D is good for moderate knowledge users but not for the professional level. The fact that Canon screwed up everything for the second times. The first time was in 1986 as they stopped with 42mm flange distance length to 44mm caused incompatible issues when they started with the EOS system. This incident caused enormous numbers of professional photographers left Canon for other brands. Now, tremendous numbers of professional photographers included me left Canon for other brands like the first incident. Canon must restore with professional-level DSLR system with improved EF lenses to keep continue with the business. Canon released two financial quarter report was a shocking loss. The third financial quarter report will not surprise with tremendous loss may lead to close Canon. Nikon switched to the mirrorless camera with Z systems had the same incident with loss.



What exactly has been the “total failure” with the EOS R ?


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## mrfig (Aug 22, 2019)

I don't get why one would buy an M series camera!? Clearly Canon is going all in on the EOS R series cameras and RF mount lenses. I think it will just be a matter of time before support for the M series will dry up as Canon continues to build out the RF lens lineup.


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## TracerHD (Aug 22, 2019)

The things are getting interesting now. For a person who own a rebel camera (700D, 750D,...) the 90D will be a huge update. On the other hand: the 80D with 7fps came 2016 and the 5D IV too (7fps in 2016), so maybe we get a 10fps 5D V more or less soon? Would be a 1400$ Crop camera woth when you could get an mybe 4000$ 5D V in one year?


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## Memirsbrunnr (Aug 22, 2019)

Architect1776 said:


> I was looking for the M5 MII with IBIS. I want a built in viewfinder.
> Other camera will be an RF mount when they get IBIS.
> Until then my 7D and 10D are doing just fine.


yup that is why the M6 is a no go for me, no builtin viewfinder


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## espressino (Aug 22, 2019)

koenkooi said:


> It looks like all new models support GPS using a bluetooth LE connection to your phone running the Camera Connect app. It works OK with my M50 and RP, but iOS keeps closing the app at random intervals, so I have to check if it's running every few minutes. It's only when I forget to check that it stops :/
> 
> There's a big downgrade when compared to using a built-in GPS or the GP-E2: it will only sync the time if you connect over wifi and tell it to sync. The "automatically sync time when connected over wifi" option keeps disabling itself. I try to connect all the cameras to my computer at least once a month to keep the clocks in sync in case I forget to connect-disconnect wifi dance.
> The big plus is that the app supports multiple cameras, so having it open enables GPS on the RP and M50.
> ...



I was considering getting the GP-E2 but then I passed because it doesn't fully support my camera (i.e. digital compass doesn't work). The camera connect app in turn doesn't support GPS on my DSLR, but on the G7 X II. This inconsistency is a little maddening.


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## espressino (Aug 22, 2019)

magarity said:


> It's only about $40 to get a repair center to permanently adjust a lens that needs some adjustment. You should have got a 77D and used it instead of an 80D that has AFMA that you leave at home
> I get than an on-the-run pro may need to buy a lens retail in a hurry and not have a repair center to adjust a lens on the way to a shoot but I just don't get everyone else endlessly complaining about lack of AFMA as a reason to avoid the 77D.


Exactly. And if it turns out on the road that a lens is seriously out of step with the camera then one can always still use live view, which doesn't need AFMA, and then one can send the camera in to have it fixed permanently.


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## JoeDavid (Aug 22, 2019)

ashmadux said:


> Let's just chalk it up to you just don't get it



No argument there. I don’t get it. I currently shoot with the Canon EOS R and 5DM4. I also shoot with a Fuji GFX 50s. I’m no stranger to 25-30 lbs camera backpacks. Light for me is the EOS R with the RF 24-105 for less demanding work.  I do have an interest in these cameras though because the sensors should be the first of Canon’s next generation. I really want to see some RAW files from then at different ISOs. The Fuji 50s is good for what it is but I have much more flexibility with my Canon system. I’m one of those people waiting for Canon’s next high megapixel body.


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## Ian_of_glos (Aug 22, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> I'd wait for the reviews on the sensor's quality. Presumably it's the new Canon's sensor so there's hope it's better than 5DIV or at least the same.
> However, why trade 5DIV for 90D? Trade your 5DIII for 90D. I guess 5DIV and 90D will be a great combo.


Sorry, what I meant was I was thinking about trading in my 5D mk3 for the 90D. There is no way that I would ever want to sell my 5D mk4


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## Ian_of_glos (Aug 22, 2019)

michi said:


> Agree with the other person. Keep the 5DIV and sell your 5DIII which sees basically no use and get the 90D.


Thank you. That is what I will do, but do you think I will miss anything because it is not is full frame sensor?


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## Ian_of_glos (Aug 22, 2019)

TracerHD said:


> The things are getting interesting now. For a person who own a rebel camera (700D, 750D,...) the 90D will be a huge update. On the other hand: the 80D with 7fps came 2016 and the 5D IV too (7fps in 2016), so maybe we get a 10fps 5D V more or less soon? Would be a 1400$ Crop camera woth when you could get an mybe 4000$ 5D V in one year?


That is a really good point - but what if the 5D mk5 never arrives? Or if there is a 5D mk 5 but it is only 8fps?


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## Stereodude (Aug 22, 2019)

There's not a chance I would pre-order any Canon camera. Further, the M6 II and 90D don't check the right boxes.


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## flip314 (Aug 22, 2019)

TracerHD said:


> The things are getting interesting now. For a person who own a rebel camera (700D, 750D,...) the 90D will be a huge update. On the other hand: the 80D with 7fps came 2016 and the 5D IV too (7fps in 2016), so maybe we get a 10fps 5D V more or less soon? Would be a 1400$ Crop camera woth when you could get an mybe 4000$ 5D V in one year?



The 90D will be an amazing camera, and will totally be worth it if your budget is $1400. There are plenty of people who only want to spend that much, and if they are upgrading from a rebel it will be a huge step up (as you say). If your budget is $4000, you should probably be looking at other cameras or waiting for the next 5D-like camera from Canon.

I don't see the 90D competing directly with the 5D series, but then again it's not really meant to.


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## EduPortas (Aug 22, 2019)

I'm well aware of this. But using an adapter is not ideal. It adds another
possible failure point to your setup and a bit more weight, in this case.

It's a substandard experience. I expect to attach a lens a shoot hassle free.


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## EduPortas (Aug 22, 2019)

navastronia said:


> This is some low energy trolling bruh



How so? Are you averse to facts?


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## PeterT (Aug 22, 2019)

magarity said:


> It's only about $40 to get a repair center to permanently adjust a lens that needs some adjustment. You should have got a 77D and used it instead of an 80D that has AFMA that you leave at home


Maybe that works in your country and your repair center...
Of course, I tried it back in about 2008 when I bought my 85 1.8 and 100 2.0. I supplied picture showing the problem. And they sent it back to me saying that it is "within the standards". So no luck with the proposed solution.
From that moment I wanted to have a camera with AF MA so that I can do it myself not relying on the good or bad mood (or good/bad skill) of a technician to which I even cannot directly speak to.


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## amorse (Aug 22, 2019)

sfeinsmith said:


> The Canon Rumor's poll showed 60% not favor for mirrorless and non-DSLR camera system with 3779 voted included me. The problem with Canon for failure to continue with DSLR need for professional photographers. The R series system had been total failures with a lot of trouble-prone incidents for both camera and lenses. The 90D is good for moderate knowledge users but not for the professional level. The fact that Canon screwed up everything for the second times. The first time was in 1986 as they stopped with 42mm flange distance length to 44mm caused incompatible issues when they started with the EOS system. This incident caused enormous numbers of professional photographers left Canon for other brands. Now, tremendous numbers of professional photographers included me left Canon for other brands like the first incident. Canon must restore with professional-level DSLR system with improved EF lenses to keep continue with the business. Canon released two financial quarter report was a shocking loss. The third financial quarter report will not surprise with tremendous loss may lead to close the business. Nikon switched to the mirrorless camera with Z systems had the same incident with loss. Now, Nikon is in deep trouble with the financial situation may possibly close the business.


Canon's imaging business accounts for less than 25% of sales. Even if Canon's imaging business completely flopped I don't think you'd see closure of the company - you'd see restructuring. As photographers it's easy to forget that these companies dabble in a lot of industries and the performance of one product rarely dictates the future of a whole company.


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## MEAllred (Aug 22, 2019)

maxfactor9933 said:


> I was waiting for a 32 MP, No AA filter with min 14 stop DR , Mag body with joystick, dual card, 12 FPS, uncropped 4k, with 1dxmk2 focus system for like 2500 USD APSC for bird shooting but I think it never gonna happen.


You're right.


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## Alastair Norcross (Aug 22, 2019)

EduPortas said:


> I'm well aware of this. But using an adapter is not ideal. It adds another
> possible failure point to your setup and a bit more weight, in this case.
> 
> It's a substandard experience. I expect to attach a lens a shoot hassle free.


I have never heard of or experienced the Canon adapter failing. I have an adapter permanently attached to my 50 F1.8STM. The total size and weight is about the same as the 18-55 EF-M. It's a completely hassle free experience to attach the lens and shoot. Not at all substandard. It sounds like you are wildly guessing, without actually knowing what you are talking about. Not unusual for internet forums, I know.


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## dtaylor (Aug 22, 2019)

Dphotos said:


> 30 years with Canon and I have decided to sell all my Canon gear and move over to Sony.



AND



> A professional grade camera is one that is also weather sealed and a camera can take a beating of daily use.



Sony? Weather sealed? This is how I know you're trolling.


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## Otara (Aug 22, 2019)

Alastair Norcross said:


> I have never heard of or experienced the Canon adapter failing. I have an adapter permanently attached to my 50 F1.8STM. The total size and weight is about the same as the 18-55 EF-M. It's a completely hassle free experience to attach the lens and shoot. Not at all substandard. It sounds like you are wildly guessing, without actually knowing what you are talking about. Not unusual for internet forums, I know.



They are very sturdy, but they inherently arent ideal in that I end up swapping around more than I like between the 35mm and my EF lenses, ie take off adapter, put on other EF lens, remove 35mm, put on lens. And have left it on the wrong lens after I left home. I ended up buying another of them.


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## dtaylor (Aug 22, 2019)

TPatS said:


> I really hope Canon has stepped up their high iso noise performance on this sensor. They're severely lagging behind the likes of the D7500.



Are they now? 

Canon is not lagging on high ISO. And you're not going to see dramatic high ISO gains within a format from anyone. That said, I can understand the desire for Canon to remove AA filters even though personally I prefer a weak AA filter (weak > none > strong). If you were to sharpen the 80D to match (about 50% / 1.5px) then the noise would be a bit worse.


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## slclick (Aug 22, 2019)

Ian_of_glos said:


> That is a really good point - but what if the 5D mk5 never arrives? Or if there is a 5D mk 5 but it is only 8fps?


The 5D series has never been fps champ, why start now? Other bodies fill that need.


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## Alastair Norcross (Aug 22, 2019)

Otara said:


> They are very sturdy, but they inherently arent ideal in that I end up swapping around more than I like between the 35mm and my EF lenses, ie take off adapter, put on other EF lens, remove 35mm, put on lens. And have left it on the wrong lens after I left home. I ended up buying another of them.


That's the trick. If there's an EF lens you use a lot on an M, just leave an adapter on it permanently. I was lucky to get an adapter bundled in with my original M purchase, and another with my M6 purchase, so I have two of them. The only EF lens I use a lot on my M6 is the 50 STM, so I keep one adapter on that (I don't use it on my 7DII), and the other one for the very occasional uses of other EF lenses. For the most part, I'm happy with EF-M lenses. I took a three week trip to Europe (Sweden, Denmark, England) this summer, and took my M6 with 22, 32, 18-150, and 11-22 in a pretty small case. They covered everything I needed, and I came back with a ton of great pictures. My 7DII is now reserved for sports, and the annual conference I organize in Colorado in August. I'm very interested in the M6II. Pretty much the only thing I wanted from the M5 on my M6 is touch and drag AF, and the M6II seems to have that. I love being able to shoot with or without the EVF, as I like it. With touch and drag AF added, I can't see any advantage to an M5 over an M6 (of course the M5II might have all kinds of extra bells and whistles when it comes).


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## ivan11 (Aug 22, 2019)

I'm waiting....still waiting for de RF trinity to buy the EOS R, and hopping for new R bodies next year!


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## bf (Aug 23, 2019)

I'm a M6 owner and still happy with my camera. I may consider m6-ii later or add a full-frame to my kit.


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## EduPortas (Aug 23, 2019)

Alastair Norcross said:


> I have never heard of or experienced the Canon adapter failing. I have an adapter permanently attached to my 50 F1.8STM. The total size and weight is about the same as the 18-55 EF-M. It's a completely hassle free experience to attach the lens and shoot. Not at all substandard. It sounds like you are wildly guessing, without actually knowing what you are talking about. Not unusual for internet forums, I know.



Congratulations on that. 

I'll keep my EF/EF-S system until Canon forces me to give it up _à la_ the great FD to EF schism. 

Don't like to waste my time with adapters. But hey, if you're happy with your setup then all the better for ya.


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## Drcampbellicu (Aug 23, 2019)

I don’t fully understand what canon is doing with its camera bodies right now
I will wait another year since I have a lot of L glass

I must admit I have an emotional attachment to the 7d line so i might be a bit hard to please 


QUOTE="MR. Linde, post: 788999, member: 383607"]
In these days of mirrorless cameras and this maybe being the last Canon DSLR I was hoping for a 7D/80D on steroids which at least would match the Nikon D500. The 7DII´s AF is still better than this new 90D. Upgrading from the 80D for bird shooting seems pointless...guess I´ll go for the Nikon D500 then...will miss my EF 100-400mk.II though... If there is some mirrorless wonder in the making why even bother releasing this 90D??
[/QUOTE]


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## Drcampbellicu (Aug 23, 2019)

Scenes said:


> As I understand it the merging of the 7D with this camera line was only a rumour. And everyone is so mad that the camera announced doesn’t live up to the imagined version in their heads. That doesn’t seem fair to Canon when love it or hate it it seems like a decent upgrade to the XXD line.



Umm
Canon is a multi billion dollar company
They can release a roadmap and do things to set expectations to help their loyal customers 

That’s what big companies do
So no I don’t feel sorry for them if some people are disappointed or confused

They seem to be in transition but aren’t being clear for whatever reason


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## TPatS (Aug 23, 2019)

dtaylor said:


> Are they now?


They are defs behind when it comes to high iso noise especially when it comes to low light colour noise. Take this example.


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## Danglin52 (Aug 23, 2019)

Drcampbellicu said:


> Umm
> Canon is a multi billion dollar company
> They can release a roadmap and do things to set expectations to help their loyal customers
> 
> ...



I was around tech most of my career and I can tell you companies seldom release road maps. Apple is much larger than Canon - can you please send me the copy of their roadmap? Not speculation, industry expectations, rumors, etc. A true, company published roadmap for their core product lines. Where are the roadmaps for Sony, Nikon, etc.? 

Sorry, just a little tired of unrealistic expectations. According to the poll, it looks like 41% of the 4700 people have responded would buy the M6 II, 80d or both. These numbers do not include those who 1)would prefer the M5 II. 2) Happy with their current gear, 3) wouldn't buy a pre-order product, 4) waiting for the official spec sheet, 5) Waiting for the price to drop after introduction, etc. I think Canon would be pretty happy with this response when they add in new buyers, marketing campaigns, etc.


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## dtaylor (Aug 23, 2019)

TPatS said:


> They are defs behind when it comes to high iso noise especially when it comes to low light colour noise. Take this example.



Where did you get that example? It looks nothing like the following from this page: https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-80d-review/11

The exposure and the file sizes are clearly different. Did you grab a heavily pushed sample from one of the exposure latitude or ISO invariance pages? That was my first thought except the drop down menus are from the Image Quality page. And clicking over to those pages, I can't see a sample that looks like yours for either camera.

*Edit:* never mind, you switched to the "low lighting" view. I'll address this in another post.


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## dtaylor (Aug 23, 2019)

TPatS said:


> They are defs behind when it comes to high iso noise especially when it comes to low light colour noise. Take this example.



I've downloaded both RAWs. It's frustrating but I can't reproduce what dpreview shows in your screenshot. Either both images are worse (all NR off) or both are much better (25 LNR and CNR), and as I move the sliders around I can't get an exact match. This is probably due to different versions of ACR.

With all NR off the Nikon file does look much better in terms of color noise even though it has more color noise than in your screen shot. However, if I put both at 25 CNR then neither file has any color noise, and a setting of 25 is well below the point of any degradation to the file.

The Nikon file also has less luminance noise but the difference isn't as dramatic. If the Nikon file is at 25 LNR then the Canon file needs to be at 35 or 40 to match. Hard to match exactly because the exposure and contrast are not identical, and neither are the dimensions, but I'm looking at 200% views on a 4k monitor. At any regular print size the differences would be invisible.

In low key areas I'll give you that the one year newer D7500 sensor does a bit better. But Canon is not "severely" behind because the difference wouldn't amount to more than 0.3 or 0.5 of a stop. It's also a difference which is unlikely to survive post processing.


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## flip314 (Aug 23, 2019)

dtaylor said:


> In low key areas I'll give you that the one year newer D7500 sensor does a bit better. But Canon is not "severely" behind because the difference wouldn't amount to more than 0.3 or 0.5 of a stop. It's also a difference which is unlikely to survive post processing.



But muh shadows! /s


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## Keepitdark (Aug 23, 2019)

A really wanted to upgrade my Canon 70D but the lack of IBIS, 4K in 60fps In 2019 it’s a deal breaker for me.
I think that I will finely going to buy the Lumix G9 From Panasonic, I own the Gx80 from Panasonic as a backup Camera so I think i will sell the canon lenses and say goodbye to the Canon.


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## Scenes (Aug 23, 2019)

Just watching Tony Northrup’s preview on YouTube in which he reads our all the info from canon rumours but theorised that the 4K *through image processing* means the sensor will record at a lower resolution and scale up to 4K.

Obviously we have to wait for the actual reveal but if that’s true it just killed my interest.


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## nvettese (Aug 23, 2019)

Personally, I would stay away from anything bu the "R" line, as I believe that's the future of Canon's lineup. The 90D has been in R&D for sometime, and they need to recoup the costs for those who worked on the camera. For me, the next camera I will be getting is an "R" camera, probably the generation after the next that comes out. Being an owner of a 7D MkII, I am happy with the camera, but I don't think I want to spend my money on a dying line, which is again, my personal feelings.


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## crazyrunner33 (Aug 23, 2019)

Scenes said:


> Just watching Tony Northrup’s preview on YouTube in which he reads our all the info from canon rumours but theorised that the 4K *through image processing* means the sensor will record at a lower resolution and scale up to 4K.
> 
> Obviously we have to wait for the actual reveal but if that’s true it just killed my interest.



That's how the older Canon cameras created "1080p"

However, image processing doesn't necessarily mean it's recording from lower resolution. A lot of cameras use image processing to oversample a much greater resolution and process an image to fit the final output. I'd wait until there's sample files to download to determine if this is a good 4K camera. 

If the camera is sampling from line skipping to create 4K, it's easy to tell because the image will have some moire pattern and have issues in low light. If it's oversampling and doing a good job at it, it'll have a great looking image and awesome low light capability. If you want to see an example between the two, look at the A7R3 vs the A73 or the Z7 vs the Z6. The A73 and Z6 both outperform their counterpart that's using line skipping(by a long shot).


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## Scenes (Aug 23, 2019)

crazyrunner33 said:


> That's how the older Canon cameras created "1080p"
> 
> However, image processing doesn't necessarily mean it's recording from lower resolution. A lot of cameras use image processing to oversample a much greater resolution and process an image to fit the final output. I'd wait until there's sample files to download to determine if this is a good 4K camera.
> 
> If the camera is sampling from line skipping to create 4K, it's easy to tell because the image will have some moire pattern and have issues in low light. If it's oversampling and doing a good job at it, it'll have a great looking image and awesome low light capability. If you want to see an example between the two, look at the A7R3 vs the A73 or the Z7 vs the Z6. The A73 and Z6 both outperform their counterpart that's using line skipping(by a long shot).



Interesting, thanks. To be honest after I posted that comment I remembered comparisons online between the 80D and other cameras saying it was soft and wondered if that worked in a similar way. The 80D got a lot of stick from ‘serious’ video aficionados on launch but it’s served me well. Ok, I’m interested again. Lol


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## Eersel (Aug 23, 2019)

The no to both is because most everyone is waiting for the A7III/A7RIII killer.

If Canon can do that and with the new RF lenses current/roadmap... Sony is in severe trouble.


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## unfocused (Aug 23, 2019)

Eersel said:


> The no to both is because most everyone is waiting for the A7III/A7RIII killer...



Right. People are not buying an APS-C DSLR or Mirrorless because they are waiting for a full frame high megapixel R?


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## Drcampbellicu (Aug 23, 2019)

I disagree
Apple releases a new iPhone/Iwatch with updates on a regular cadence. 
No roadmap is needed 
Everyone knows that it’s coming
I do admit that some of their other products do not have a regular cadence like the MacBook Pro. But their customers have come to expect that this specific product line is variable in terms of updates

I personally view Nikon as a small struggling company and don’t know how they communicate with their users. I suspect that products come out when they’re ready and their fans are used to it.

Sony seems to have a cadence for their updates but I don’t know for sure

Canon has a general timeframe for their updates. Certain bodies get updated after a number of years. The cheap ones can be annually and the big dogs much later

We are in a period of great uncertainty, change and financial pressure now. As a result I sense more confusion than normal for canon customers. This isn’t normal and I wouldn’t trivialize it







Danglin52 said:


> I was around tech most of my career and I can tell you companies seldom release road maps. Apple is much larger than Canon - can you please send me the copy of their roadmap? Not speculation, industry expectations, rumors, etc. A true, company published roadmap for their core product lines. Where are the roadmaps for Sony, Nikon, etc.?
> 
> Sorry, just a little tired of unrealistic expectations. According to the poll, it looks like 41% of the 4700 people have responded would buy the M6 II, 80d or both. These numbers do not include those who 1)would prefer the M5 II. 2) Happy with their current gear, 3) wouldn't buy a pre-order product, 4) waiting for the official spec sheet, 5) Waiting for the price to drop after introduction, etc. I think Canon would be pretty happy with this response when they add in new buyers, marketing campaigns, etc.


----------



## mpmark (Aug 23, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...



I wont be purchasing either of these cameras not for their specs but because I am not in the market for an prosumer entry level camera. What this gives me is a road map to the next 5d or 1d type camera and when we see the perfomance of this 90D it will tell me what we can atleast expect when the higher end cameras are released.


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## Skywise (Aug 23, 2019)

No. My next camera will be an R series. (actually at this rate it may be a new iPhone if their new cameras are as good as they're claiming)


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## Quirkz (Aug 23, 2019)

Not pre ordering, but I’m likely to buy later once the price drops a bit


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## Scenes (Aug 23, 2019)

Do we know what the rumoured price is? I’ve seen everything from $1100 to $1400 mentioned.


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## Danglin52 (Aug 23, 2019)

So we have transitioned from a "roadmap" to a "cadence" because you can't support your position. You are so full of it! The "cadence" occurs until Apple and Sony decide it is not going to occur. A roadmap typically lays out a defined path for product evolution with at least some high level capabilities. Does the "cadence" tell me whether I will see a 5g iPhone from Apple this year or a new Sony A9 II with at least 2 of the major features? A roadmap to me says it is defined strategy that includes the product evolution with at least some clarity on the general capabilities, otherwise a "roadmap" is nothing more than a worthless marketing slide. Even if a company did a general roadmap, they would not disclose any proprietary or innovative features that would give competition a chance to react and release competing product. 

A roadmap would be a published document by a company about it's future product direction - not a "cadence". Your "because they have done..." it is not a corporate statement of direction. Because there has always been a bridge on a road you drive do you close your eyes and assume the bridge is there? If the company did provide a roadmap you would be whining over any deviation even it made absolute sense for the customer and company.


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## Dragon (Aug 23, 2019)

The 90D looks like a great replacement for my 70D. It will very interesting to see the reviews on the sensor. 32.5MP is a pretty significant resolution jump, so Canon must feel that they have made real strides in sensor performance. Would like to have seen 4k/60, but probably too much to ask at the likely price point. As to the M6 II, I have an M3 and an M5. I like the built in EVF, so will likely wait for the M5 II. The M lenses are sharp enough to see some real advantage from the 32 MP sensor so that should make a really good portable. Also waiting for the 5DSR upgrade. I suspect it will come in R form and 32.5 x 2.56 + 83 MP so it should be a pretty interesting upgrade. That will likely be my first venture into the R line. I am also intrigued with the G5X II. It looks like a very capable ultra-portable.


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## unfocused (Aug 23, 2019)

If I'm understanding this correctly, this poll has a pretty serious glitch. It looks like you have to vote each time you want to see the results. Which means there are probably hundreds, maybe even thousands, of duplicate votes.


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## Drcampbellicu (Aug 23, 2019)

I don’t want to get dragged into a fight here
To clear the air and move on I have reposted what I said

They can release a roadmap and do things to set expectations to help their loyal customers

I stand by my original statement and understand that you feel differently.
Take care



Danglin52 said:


> So we have transitioned from a "roadmap" to a "cadence" because you can't support your position. You are so full of it! The "cadence" occurs until Apple and Sony decide it is not going to occur. A roadmap typically lays out a defined path for product evolution with at least some high level capabilities. Does the "cadence" tell me whether I will see a 5g iPhone from Apple this year or a new Sony A9 II with at least 2 of the major features? A roadmap to me says it is defined strategy that includes the product evolution with at least some clarity on the general capabilities, otherwise a "roadmap" is nothing more than a worthless marketing slide. Even if a company did a general roadmap, they would not disclose any proprietary or innovative features that would give competition a chance to react and release competing product.
> 
> A roadmap would be a published document by a company about it's future product direction - not a "cadence". Your "because they have done..." it is not a corporate statement of direction. Because there has always been a bridge on a road you drive do you close your eyes and assume the bridge is there? If the company did provide a roadmap you would be whining over any deviation even it made absolute sense for the customer and company.


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## RayValdez360 (Aug 23, 2019)

Eersel said:


> The no to both is because most everyone is waiting for the A7III/A7RIII killer.
> 
> If Canon can do that and with the new RF lenses current/roadmap... Sony is in severe trouble.


wishful thinking. there is barely anything wrong with sony cameras now.


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## vjlex (Aug 24, 2019)

The only thing that has me rethinking the M6 Mark II is that I prefer a fully articulated screen to a tilt-screen. The ribbon cable on the back is exposed and the one on my M3 became loose somehow. I had to get it repaired for more money than I would've liked. I'm wondering if it wouldn't be better for me to hold out for the M50 successor.


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## AlanF (Aug 24, 2019)

Scenes said:


> Just watching Tony Northrup’s preview on YouTube in which he reads our all the info from canon rumours but theorised that the 4K *through image processing* means the sensor will record at a lower resolution and scale up to 4K.
> 
> Obviously we have to wait for the actual reveal but if that’s true it just killed my interest.


TN has very little credibility on CR.


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## AlanF (Aug 24, 2019)

magarity said:


> It's only about $40 to get a repair center to permanently adjust a lens that needs some adjustment. You should have got a 77D and used it instead of an 80D that has AFMA that you leave at home
> I get than an on-the-run pro may need to buy a lens retail in a hurry and not have a repair center to adjust a lens on the way to a shoot but I just don't get everyone else endlessly complaining about lack of AFMA as a reason to avoid the 77D.


Firstly, I can do AFMA with more care and patience to optimise than does a repair centre and at the distances I use my lenses at; secondly $40 is the price for one lens, and what is it going to cost if you have several lenses and also use them with 1.4 and 2xTCs and need AFMA at telephoto and wide angle for zooms?; thirdly "permanently" adjust - AFMA can change with handling a camera and the rough and of use and so AFMA has to be repeated over a period of time. I passed over a 77D for its lack of AFMA.


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## Kernow (Aug 24, 2019)

This will be a big upgrade for me coming from a 450D to the 90D , i have a keen eye and the older rebel still got me good shots but i was in the end limited, so cant wait for this to be honest. anyone going from a rebel or even a 60/70D..etc this i am sure will not disappoint.


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## cnc (Aug 24, 2019)

I will never pre-order anything again before real test of camera, lesson learn with 6d Markii


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## SUNDOG04 (Aug 25, 2019)

AlanF said:


> TN has very little credibility on CR.


I’ve been watching TN and his wife on YouTube video. The more I do, I feel it is entertainment and I am just wasting my time.


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## SUNDOG04 (Aug 25, 2019)

cnc said:


> I will never pre-order anything again before real test of camera, lesson learn with 6d Markii


May I ask why? If my 6D craps out I am not sure what I would get. Reading up on 6DII has been confusing and unsure the sensor is even better. Like my 6D except dumbed down focusing and. 5D is overkill in size, weight, and complexity. Thanks!


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## stevelee (Aug 25, 2019)

SUNDOG04 said:


> May I ask why? If my 6D craps out I am not sure what I would get. Reading up on 6DII has been confusing and unsure the sensor is even better. Like my 6D except dumbed down focusing and. 5D is overkill in size, weight, and complexity. Thanks!


I did not preorder the 6D2, but bought it shortly after I could hold one in my hands. I had already read and watched many of the pearl-clutching online comments and videos. I decided to get the STM kit lens instead of the L, so I did have to wait for that version to come in to the store. So far I have found no reason to regret getting that camera or that lens. I did ask here for someone to explain to me how I might demonstrate the dynamic range problems that people were obsessing about, and was basically told to forget about it. Autoexposure on the camera is good enough that I haven't had to try ridiculous adjustments. I always shoot Raw, which may help with that a lot. It probably helps, too, in that I wasn't expecting the camera to be an upgrade to the 5D IV.

My first excursion with the camera was to a Chinese lantern exhibit at some gardens. It was daylight when we arrived, and dark when we left. Since I was learning and getting used to the camera, I left everything in auto settings, and I think it did well. No shots were out of focus, either. I didn't try to make the twilight or night pictures look like midday. That would have brought up dynamic range issues with any camera. Pictures from that excursion are at http://www.stevelee.name/lanterns/


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## SUNDOG04 (Aug 25, 2019)

stevelee said:


> I did not preorder the 6D2, but bought it shortly after I could hold one in my hands. I had already read and watched many of the pearl-clutching online comments and videos. I decided to get the STM kit lens instead of the L, so I did have to wait for that version to come in to the store. So far I have found no reason to regret getting that camera or that lens. I did ask here for someone to explain to me how I might demonstrate the dynamic range problems that people were obsessing about, and was basically told to forget about it. Autoexposure on the camera is good enough that I haven't had to try ridiculous adjustments. I always shoot Raw, which may help with that a lot. It probably helps, too, in that I wasn't expecting the camera to be an upgrade to the 5D IV.
> 
> My first excursion with the camera was to a Chinese lantern exhibit at some gardens. It was daylight when we arrived, and dark when we left. Since I was learning and getting used to the camera, I left everything in auto settings, and I think it did well. No shots were out of focus, either. I didn't try to make the twilight or night pictures look like midday. That would have brought up dynamic range issues with any camera. Pictures from that excursion are at http://www.stevelee.name/lanterns/


Thanks much for your response. I shoot RAW also, find the dynamic range just fine. Focusing accuracy with the center point as amazingly accurate. Works fine, so just thinking about the future should I need another body. Thanks again!


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## dtaylor (Aug 25, 2019)

stevelee said:


> I did ask here for someone to explain to me how I might demonstrate the dynamic range problems that people were obsessing about, and was basically told to forget about it.



That's easy.

1) Set a black cat on top of a black blanket in the corner of your room

2) Underexpose said cat by 6 stops.

3) Load the file in your RAW converter and push it 6 stops to reveal the cat.

4) Take a screenshot of the result.

5) Now go find a Canon forum where you can confidently declare that the 6D2 is unusable for black cat photographers who routinely underexpose by 6 stops, that you're switching to Sony so that you don't miss any -6ev black cat shots, and that *CANON. IS. *******.*


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## Don Haines (Aug 25, 2019)

cnc said:


> I will never pre-order anything again before real test of camera, lesson learn with 6d Markii


Out of curiosity, what went wrong for you?


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## Phil Gower (Aug 26, 2019)

I will definitely pre-order the 90D.

So much negatively toward the 90D specs in the comments...for me this camera could be a game changer for my speciality: bird photography. Currently use the 5DSR and supported by the 7D II with EF600 and EF100-400. The detail provided by the 50MP full-frame sensor is already unbeatable...heaven knows what the 32.5 MP crop sensor will mean for me in terms of cropability and with 10 FPS I’m so excited by the prospect.

Canon all the way!


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## cnc (Aug 26, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> Out of curiosity, what went wrong for you?


Well, is good camera. I don't like focusing points they are to close to each other, no joystick but you can get around that with touch screen, dynamic range is not the best. After bad review's camera price drop $1000.00 in couple month's. And this is a reason i will never pre-order again. Overall i am happy with the camera.


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## Don Haines (Aug 26, 2019)

cnc said:


> Well, is good camera. I don't like focusing points they are to close to each other, no joystick but you can get around that with touch screen, dynamic range is not the best. After bad review's camera price drop $1000.00 in couple month's. And this is a reason i will never pre-order again. Overall i am happy with the camera.


It's always best to explain. If you just say that you will never pre-order again, the rest of us will not learn.

I have that camera, and I like it.

As to your points, yes the price really dropped a few months after introduction. That seems to be a common occurrence. We buyers should learn from that. If you want it NOW! you have to pay that new adopter's premium. 

As to the focusing points: They cover less area than the other Canon FF cameras, but not a huge amount smaller. The internet hype makes it sound like it is night and day, but really the difference is not huge. That said, because of the smaller sensor size and having the same amount of space for the AF sensor, the crop cameras like the 80D and the 7D2 have much better coverage than any of the FF cameras.

No Joystick! Once you use a camera with a joystick, there is no going back. You get used to the camera and you can operate by feel without taking your eye from the viewfinder. Once it is away from your eye, I find that the touchscreen interface (at least for me) is superior to the buttons and joystick. Canon got that one right!

DR? It's good, but it is not a 5D camera. If you come from crop, it is great, but if you come from a higher FF camera, it is lacking a bit.


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## stevelee (Aug 26, 2019)

I can't think of a time that the autofocus spread has ever been an issue for me with the 6D2. If I ever did want something in the corner of the picture to be the main thing in focus, I would instinctively point the camera at it and lock the focus and then recompose, I'm pretty sure. In a complex situation, I am likely to switch to manual focus anyway.


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## stevelee (Aug 26, 2019)

As for the price drop, it was worth it to me to have the camera when I did. Maybe I could have rented one until the price came down, but I don't regret doing something clever like that. And I have memorable pictures from the first week or so that I got the camera.

A more dubious case was my recent purchase of the G5X II. My G7X II is perfectly good, and I would have been fine with it on my fall trip. Sometimes I just want something when I want it. Luckily, I haven't seen a car that I like enough better than my 8-year-old car to want to buy it. I will need to buy some tires in the the next couple of months. (Maybe I should have thought of that when I bought the camera.) I'm hoping that I don't suddenly discover a car I want after I spring for the tires.


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## Whopper (Aug 26, 2019)

LSXPhotog said:


> I'm still waiting for the official specs, ....


So do I. Especially for what the 4k-specs can do and how the new Sensor is performing. If it's ok, I'll wait for a price at ~900,-€.


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## flip314 (Aug 26, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> As to the focusing points: They cover less area than the other Canon FF cameras, but not a huge amount smaller. The internet hype makes it sound like it is night and day, but really the difference is not huge. That said, because of the smaller sensor size and having the same amount of space for the AF sensor, the crop cameras like the 80D and the 7D2 have much better coverage than any of the FF cameras.



I think that last point is the biggest issue. Anyone who gets used to the 80D and then upgrades to the 6D II is suddenly going to feel like all the focusing points are in the same spot, but it's just because they were spoiled by the 80Ds excellent coverage. Even on my 80D it would be nice if they could be spread wider, one of the things I'm looking forward to when I eventually upgrade to mirrorless is the much better coverage...


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## malarcky (Aug 30, 2019)

I wrote this post on page 2, and it was spot on.
"This will be just like the 6D MkII. Haters will abound, just like they did then. The camera will come out, and all will be resolved. This is propaganda 101. It will continue as an experiment into how far they can go to trash a product in the quest for dominance of the social media market. They failed to dog the 80D, or the 6D MkII.
It's already began, and watch how many detractors vs. unbiased observers chime in. I'm predicting 3 or 4 to 1. Mark my words.
I would like to continue to use my ES series lenses into the future, and the 90D may be the last of the camera's that will be using them as an option. The hate for this camera will trump all others, as that's where we are with social media now. Maybe the hate for this camera can drop the price quickly, like they did with the 6D MkII. Watch for an insignificant review to be pounced upon, like the ISO 100 fallacy of the 6D MkII's performance. Like the 6D MkII's performance, it will be a great seller."

If you look through these posts, there is almost a stunning amount of frivolity and just plain "Canon hate" going on here. It's almost nauseating, but predictable. ;-)


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## Don Haines (Aug 30, 2019)

malarcky said:


> I wrote this post on page 2, and it was spot on.
> "This will be just like the 6D MkII. Haters will abound, just like they did then. The camera will come out, and all will be resolved. This is propaganda 101. It will continue as an experiment into how far they can go to trash a product in the quest for dominance of the social media market. They failed to dog the 80D, or the 6D MkII.
> It's already began, and watch how many detractors vs. unbiased observers chime in. I'm predicting 3 or 4 to 1. Mark my words.
> I would like to continue to use my ES series lenses into the future, and the 90D may be the last of the camera's that will be using them as an option. The hate for this camera will trump all others, as that's where we are with social media now. Maybe the hate for this camera can drop the price quickly, like they did with the 6D MkII. Watch for an insignificant review to be pounced upon, like the ISO 100 fallacy of the 6D MkII's performance. Like the 6D MkII's performance, it will be a great seller."
> ...


Sometimes it seems like the more people on the forum complain, the better the camera sells......


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## dcm (Aug 31, 2019)

I preordered based on what I've already learned about the camera. As an M3/M5 user, the M6 II/EVF will be a solid upgrade to my M3/EVF. The M5 is still a great camera and I can wait to see what the future holds for the M series. I'll leave the M3 at my office for occasional use, and pass the M along to my 7yo granddaughter to upgrade her P&S.

Primarily a stills shooter, the M's are my goto cameras for day to day use and hiking in the Colorado mountains. I pull out the 1DX2 and L's when I'm into serious photography.


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## OneSnark (Sep 6, 2019)

I debated preordering the 10D when it came out. In those days, dSLRs were in short supply when released.
Turns out I was able to secure one the day-before-release from my local shop. Lucky me 

In 2019, I see ZERO need to preorder any camera gear.

Two thoughts: 

ONE: I think social media has completely corrupted the concept of "user reviews". The bias you see in these reviews is simply breath-taking. I saw one review where the 90D was being panned because of the OVF. . . .one minute later, same video, rave talk about the M6 EVF. Seriously? The other videos I love are the Canon G7 III comparisons to the Sony RX100 VII. One camera is $750. The other is $1200. Yeah - - fair comparison.

TWO: I am intrigued about the Hype around mirrorless. But Canon has now gone to separate mounts for APS-C mirrorless, DSLR, and FF mirrorless. Mirrorless with adapters. . .is not my thing. The EF-M zooms are too slow to consider. The R lenses are simply too darn expensive. and physically too big. So - - - yeah - - - i buy neither.

If I could fit my EF lenses onto a M6 without an adapter. . .I probably would just spring for one. (it's notably cheaper than a Sony RX100 VII - - > How crazy is that?)


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