# POLL: Who will be first with 8K...



## expatinasia (Jun 13, 2015)

Just a few weeks ago people here and elsewhere were still discussing 4K, but in the past few days I have read more and more online reports about 8K videos appearing on YouTube!

Here is one such video:

https://youtu.be/RNdHaeBhT9Q

(note that in YT settings I can only go up to 4K (2160), I presume because my connection is not fast enough and my monitor is only 1920x1080.

Crazy stuff, but it's coming, albeit only if you have the right hardware and internet connection!

So which of the main manufacturers, Sony, Canon, Nikon, Panasonic, Samsung etc do you reckon will be first to add 8K to one of their new devices?!

It does not really matter whether we need this tech or not, it's here and coming - faster than we think.


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## DanThePhotoMan (Jul 20, 2015)

I personally don't think it will be any of the above. RED will absolutely be the first to make an 8k camera. They already put out 6k with their Dragon a year ago, so I say we'll be seeing 8k from them in the next two years. Being that their new Weapon is doing 6k, I'd say whatever their new upgrade is will be 8k.


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## crazyrunner33 (Jul 20, 2015)

In terms of mass production cameras, it'll be Sony or Samsung. The Samsung is capable of 6K output on the NX1, but I don't believe Samnsung is taking advantage of it. Sony's new A7R II already uses an 8K sensor to downsample a clean 4K image. It wouldn't surprise me if Sony enables 8K recording when the A7R III or IV comes out.


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## Proscribo (Jul 21, 2015)

Sooo computer monitors are mostly fullhd I presume and people start to think about 8K video? 
I hope you do realize that quadrupling resolution means A LOT more resolution, 4K means about 8MP, which is IMO really nice amount for video, and so 8K is ~32MP.. more than most still pics today... ???


Oh wait.. is it the megapixel race, again?


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## ajfotofilmagem (Jul 21, 2015)

I voted Sony, but with a caveat ...

If the company does not go bankrupt there.


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## crazyrunner33 (Jul 21, 2015)

Proscribo said:


> Sooo computer monitors are mostly fullhd I presume and people start to think about 8K video?
> I hope you do realize that quadrupling resolution means A LOT more resolution, 4K means about 8MP, which is IMO really nice amount for video, and so 8K is ~32MP.. more than most still pics today... ???
> 
> 
> Oh wait.. is it the megapixel race, again?



Considering 4K is becoming the standard for subsidized phones, yes. Consumers will love 8K for bragging rights and will serve no purpose for them, but content providers would benefit from 8K in order to downsample to a clean 4K image.


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## leGreve (Jul 21, 2015)

Sony already has 6k as well as Red......

Sony also have a prototype 8k camera that has been out for testing. Hopefully we wont see 8k any time soon. I was just getting used to 4k and to be honest the images we have now are more than fine.

They really should invest in delivery infrastructure instead or holographic tech


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## unfocused (Jul 21, 2015)

Serious question. What exactly is the purpose of 4K, 6K or 8K?

Most video is being delivered on smart phones and tablets. That is only going to increase in the coming years. I still watch television, but I'm old. (I go to movies too.) My kids and most people I know under 30 seldom turn on a TV. Everything they watch they stream on a phone, tablet or at best a laptop.

So, is the main purpose of 4K etc., to make it easier to crop and stabilize video? Is there any other reason for it?


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## Pinchers of Peril (Jul 21, 2015)

I've got my money on Polaroid, or maybe Kodak will make a raging come back


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## crazyrunner33 (Jul 21, 2015)

unfocused said:


> Serious question. What exactly is the purpose of 4K, 6K or 8K?
> 
> Most video is being delivered on smart phones and tablets. That is only going to increase in the coming years. I still watch television, but I'm old. (I go to movies too.) My kids and most people I know under 30 seldom turn on a TV. Everything they watch they stream on a phone, tablet or at best a laptop.
> 
> So, is the main purpose of 4K etc., to make it easier to crop and stabilize video? Is there any other reason for it?



4K is the new broadcast standard, ATSC 3.0 and it'll be a global standard, no more worry about PAL and weird frame rates. 4K is also slowly becoming the standard resolution for phones, tablets, TVs, laptops and computers. For consumers, the biggest benefit of 4K is reduced aliasing. However, a 6K and 8K screen would be overkill, that's better for the content creators.

6K and 8K will actually serve a purpose for theaters, IMAX, video production and still photography. For video production, it will serve well in order to downsample an 8K image from a CMOS sensor to a relatively clean 4K image for final delivery to a 4K screen. I personally would like to use 8K for some of my visual effects work, it would help a lot for tracking, rotoscoping and the green screen.


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## timmy_650 (Jul 21, 2015)

I don't think anyone on the list will do it first. I think it is either RED or Gopro. Gopro has loved being in the front of the resolution game/race. RED is red they can already process so much information with there cameras. I think Vision who make the Phantom flex could do it but I don't see them, see a market for it a 8K camera.


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## jcarapet (Jul 21, 2015)

echo the sentiments of RED or GoPro getting their first. They have the most to gain from it. Panasonic or Sony will come next, but they need better adoption before being a runaway hit.


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## Tinky (Jul 21, 2015)

Canon. In the 5D4. With 16 stops of DR. And Eye controlled focus.


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## LOALTD (Jul 21, 2015)

Red is already there:
http://www.engadget.com/2015/04/13/red-8k-weapon-camera/


As far as a *consumer* camera...I think these poll results are bang-on, either Sony or Panasonic.


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## Tinky (Jul 22, 2015)

crazyrunner33 said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Serious question. What exactly is the purpose of 4K, 6K or 8K?
> ...



Or no more worry about *N*ever *T*he *S*ame *C*olour and it's totally regular frame rate of 29.97, so regular and easy to work with that it requires a dropped frame once every 10 minutes.

Yes, plain old 25fps is so tricky to engineer for in comparison. But of course its the half of the world that uses PAL who is out of step, never the yanks. Here's a reminder... we invented the blooming telly.


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## Proscribo (Jul 22, 2015)

Tinky said:


> Or no more worry about *N*ever *T*he *S*ame *C*olour and it's totally regular frame rate of 29.97, so regular and easy to work with that it requires a dropped frame once every 10 minutes.
> 
> Yes, plain old 25fps is so tricky to engineer for in comparison. But of course its the half of the world that uses PAL who is out of step, never the yanks. Here's a reminder... we invented the blooming telly.


Oh, my thoughts. ;D Except I didn't now NTSC used 29,97fps  I suppose it can use exactly 30fps too?


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## Tinky (Jul 22, 2015)

Sadly not. But it can use 59.94 interlaced.

I mean no ill will, just in terms of wierdness, as a technical standard NTSC is way out there.


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## Tinky (Jul 24, 2015)

And your point?.... The Never The Same Colour bit was a jokey expansion on the acronym by BBC engineers. Sorry if the joke was lost. Maybe I should have put a smiley face at the end for context.


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## Don Haines (Jul 24, 2015)

Tinky said:


> And your point?.... The Never The Same Colour bit was a jokey expansion on the acronym by BBC engineers. Sorry if the joke was lost. Maybe I should have put a smiley face at the end for context.



We also called it Never The Same Color on the west side of the Atlantic...


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## Don Haines (Jul 24, 2015)

Tinky said:


> Sadly not. But it can use 59.94 interlaced.
> 
> I mean no ill will, just in terms of wierdness, as a technical standard NTSC is way out there.



and the 59.94 frame rate came about because some engineer did not know how to make a decent frequency multiplier/divider....


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## KrisK (Jul 25, 2015)

Tinky said:


> ...as a technical standard NTSC is way out there.



Look, if you shoot crystal-sync with a Nagra and a 60Hz Pilottone, and you're finishing your 16mm film on video, then you need to resolve your Nagra's audio using the external 59.94Hz Pilottone reference generator.

Try explaining that to a bunch of hoary-headed film instructors. I was practically stoned to death on multiple occasions.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 25, 2015)

From Wikipedia.

Few video cameras have the capability to film in 8K, with NHK being one of the only companies to have created a small broadcasting camera with an 8K image sensor.[5] Sony and Red Digital Cinema Camera Company are both working to bring larger 8K sensors in more of their cameras in the coming years.[5] Although it is unlikely that 8K will become a mainstream resolution anytime soon, a major reason filmmakers are pushing for 8K cameras is to get better 4K footage. Through a process called downsampling, using a higher resolution 8K image downsampled to 4K could create a sharper picture with richer colors than a 4K camera would be able to achieve on its own with a lower resolution sensor.[5]


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## deleteme (Jul 25, 2015)

crazyrunner33 said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Serious question. What exactly is the purpose of 4K, 6K or 8K?
> ...



If I understand correctly most digital projection systems in theaters today are 2K with some 4K installs. Most all cinematic releases are captured in 2K Alexas or scanned in 2K from film. Even at those "modest" resolutions many film makers complain of excessive sharpness and detail. 
While I understand that more is better for the flexibility it may afford, it seems that there are only fractional visual improvements to be made at a great cost in bandwidth requirements.


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## deleteme (Jul 25, 2015)

Tinky said:


> Here's a reminder... we invented the blooming telly.



And a special place in hell awaits you.


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## Tinky (Jul 26, 2015)

Normalnorm said:


> Tinky said:
> 
> 
> > Here's a reminder... we invented the blooming telly.
> ...



We already have ongoing purgatory in the form of the great highland midge.

If you can imagine tiny flying vipers in swarms... And they only come out the one week we don't get rain.


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## Tinky (Jul 26, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > Tinky said:
> ...



Yes thanks.

But as a comparison to the relatively straightforward PAL standard.... 

As a light hearted riposte to 'no more worry PAL and weird frame rates' in the broad theme of people in glass houses shouldn't play darts indoors kind of thing...

Again, I apologise that you missed the joke.


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## pwp (Jul 26, 2015)

Red...

-pw


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## emko (Jul 26, 2015)

Normalnorm said:


> crazyrunner33 said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...



Sorry but 2k or 4k for theaters IS NOT GOOD enough compared to film projection, since they started doing this i don't bother going anymore i can see the damn pixels and feels very digital cant explain it. The last thing i was going for was the IMAX FILM projection then IMAX went digital yet still call them self's IMAX sure sure a 15 perforation 70mm film is NOT 4K its more like 18K but they still advertise it as the IMAX experience if you seen really IMAX film you would know how bad this crap looks compared.

35mm film is around 4k resolution but projected smoothly not via pixels.

So yes 8K and + will be good BUT only for theaters i think, for TV's etc i really don't know i am sure we will get tvs that will do it but wont do much compared to 4k etc it will just be a spec.


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## jeffa4444 (Jul 31, 2015)

NHK are indeed the first ones to have the first 8K camera and they have used it and its previous prototype at major sporting events. The Arri Alexa 65 is 6K and is currently out shooting on a number of movies, Red has just started delivering 6K Dragon / Weapon cameras without currently a fixed date for the 8K Weapon. 

No one is expecting 8K broadcast anytime soon if ever the viewing distance is insanely close to the screen, cinemas in standard size multiplexes showing 4K only really provide this in the front three rows anything back from that and your seeing 2K. As stated elsewhere the theory behind 8K is oversampling to provide a wider color gamut and to aid visual effects for 4K viewing. Lenses as in the case of the Panavision Primo 70 lenses are required to get the most out of the system if its pure resolution your after and full implimentation of REC2020 and H.265 both of which mean more real time processing and much larger files. 

Most people in the high end of the professional movie / TV market dont see 8K as a practical delivery, 4K is still posing many problems including available bandwidth although they are utilizing a new compression codec called "Perseus" at NHK for 8K developed by V-Nova a London based company they claim to half the bandwidth required for a given format i.e. 4K fitting into 1080P (2K).


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## psolberg (Aug 5, 2015)

Why are you only listing tier 2 companies in video? If you said "consumer" 8K then maybe those names make sense.


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