# Canon Announces the EOS 5D Mark IV DSLR



## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 25, 2016)

```
<strong>MELVILLE, N.Y., August 25, 2016 </strong>– Canon U.S.A., Inc., a leader in digital imaging solutions, is proud to announce the EOS 5D Mark IV DSLR camera, the next generation of the popular and versatile 5D series of Canon professional DSLR cameras. Building on this legendary legacy, the EOS 5D Mark IV propels the series forward with a fusion of features and enhancements targeted to please even the most discerning creative eyes.  The camera’s 30.4 megapixel 35mm Full Frame Canon CMOS sensor offers stunning image quality while the DIGIC 6+ Image Processor delivers 4K 30P video and up to and seven frames per second (fps) continuous shooting.  To make video shooting even easier, the camera also features Canon’s propriety Dual Pixel CMOS AF, even when shooting 4K to help ensure sharp focus and subject tracking.</p>
<p><!--more--></p>
<p>“Canon’s EOS 5D series of DSLR cameras has a history of being at the forefront of still and video innovation. And today, we add to this family of cameras the EOS 5D Mark IV– the first in our 5D series to offer 4K video and built-in Wi-Fi and NFC connectivity,” said Yuichi Ishizuka, president and COO, Canon U.S.A., Inc. “In developing this new DSLR camera, we listened to the requests of current EOS users to create for them a modern, versatile camera designed to help them create and share beautiful still and video imagery.”</p>
<p>“Outdoor photographers will really appreciate the new EOS 5D Mark IV, as it offers more resolution, better detail in the shadows, and improved speeds in autofocus and frame rate,” reported acclaimed nature photographer and Canon Explorer of Light George Lepp. “With the fabulous resolution of 4K video and the ability to make beautiful prints from a frame of that video as an added bonus, this camera sets a new mid-range standard for nature photography.”</p>
<p>In addition, Canon is also introducing two new L-series EF lenses – the Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L III USM Ultra-Wide Zoom Lens and EF 24-105mm f/4L IS II USM  Standard Zoom Lens– offering fantastic edge-to-edge sharpness across the imaging plane, as well as improved durability and performance.</p>
<p><iframe src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/8Z9089048wk" width="728 height=" height="409" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen="allowfullscreen"></iframe></p>
<p><strong>EOS 5D Mark IV DSLR Camera Specifications:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>New 30.4 Megapixel full-frame CMOS sensor for versatile shooting in nearly any light, with ISO range 100–32,000; expandable up to 50–102,400.</li>
<li>4K Motion JPEG video (DCI cinema-type 4096 x 2160) at 30p or 24p; in-camera still frame grab* of 4K 8.8-Megapixel images; multiple video options include Full HD up to 60p, and HD up to 120p.</li>
<li>Superb Dual Pixel CMOS AF for responsive and smooth AF during video or Live View shooting; LCD monitor has full touch-screen interface, including selection of AF area.</li>
<li>Excellent performance — up to 7.0 fps** continuous shooting speed with high performance DIGIC 6+ Image Processor for improved speed and excellent image quality.</li>
<li>61 AF points with expanded vertical coverage with 41 cross-points, and AF possible at all 61 AF points with many lens + extender combinations effective at f/8.</li>
<li>150,000-pixel RGB+IR metering sensor helps provide precise exposure metering, helps detect flickering lights and allows for enhanced scene recognition and face detection capabilities.</li>
<li>Dual Pixel RAW***, in-camera Digital Lens Optimizer during JPEG shooting and Diffraction Correction technologies.</li>
<li>Built-in Wi-Fi®<sup>1</sup> and NFC<sup>2</sup> connectivity provide easy sharing to compatible smart devices, select social media sites and the Canon Connect Station CS100 device.</li>
<li>Built-in GPS<sup>3</sup> provides geotag information including auto time syncing with Universal Time Code (UTC) via satellites.</li>
</ul>
<p>“I have owned every camera in the 5D line, so the new EOS 5D Mark IV feels like an old friend in my hands, only better” exclaimed renowned wedding photographer and Canon Explorer of Light Clay Blackmore. “It has everything a professional photographer needs to create outstanding, quality images every time. Between its ability with still images and video capture, it is the complete package and—in my opinion—the best wedding camera on the planet.”</p>
<p>“When working with macro beauty photography, I need fast and precise autofocus. With each breath of the subject I need to be able to check the exact placement of focus, whether on the tips of the eyelashes, the pupils or other detail of her face. The EOS 5D Mark IV  gave me exactly the speed and precision required to capture the detail and stunning color that is a signature of my beauty work,” remarked celebrated fashion and beauty photographer and Canon Explorer of Light Lindsay Adler. “I’m always looking for ways to create visuals that help me stand out from the competition. Cinemagraphs, also known as ‘living images,’ allow me to combine still frames and video to create captivating images. Because of the EOS 5D Mark IV’s 4K and slow motion capabilities, I now have the ability to create high quality and visually compelling cinemagraphs without having to invest in an expensive cinema camera!”</p>
<p><strong>The Next Generation of EOS 5D Cameras</strong></p>
<p>In addition to the new Full Frame sensor, the new EOS 5D Mark IV includes a 61-point High-Density Reticular AF II system, similar to the one found in the flagship EOS-1D X Mark II, with all AF points selectable by the user (and up to 41 cross-type points depending on the lens in use). The AF system, improved over previous Canon 5D series models, includes expanded coverage across the frame that supports AF at maximum apertures up to f/8 with all 61 points for high-precision autofocus even when using EF super-telephoto lenses with an EF extender. Standard ISO range for the EOS 5D Mark IV is ISO 100-32,000 and is expandable to 50-102,400.</p>
<p>The EOS 5D Mark IV also introduces a new 150,000 pixel RGB+IR metering sensor with enhanced precision and performance compared to its predecessor, improving upon facial recognition and tracking as well as nature and sports scenes with fast-moving action. AF sensitivity in low light is EV-3 and EV-4 when in Live View mode. The EOS Scene Detection System can detect and compensate for flickering light sources that are often used in gymnasiums and swimming pools. When enabled, this anti-flicker system automatically adjusts shutter release timing to help reduce disparities in exposure and color especially during continuous burst shooting.</p>
<p>Following the groundbreaking video recording capabilities introduced in the EOS 5D Mark II and EOS 5D Mark III, the EOS 5D Mark IV takes the next leap forward offering DCI 4K video recording.  Adding to the versatility of capturing 4K video, is Canon’s Dual Pixel CMOS AF. This proven autofocus system allows for continuous focus tracking of subjects, and can be customized by the user for optimal performance. Dual Pixel CMOS AF technology not only enhances 4K video recording, but also helps create crisp focus for 4K Frame Grab extraction of 8.8 megapixel still JPEG images, all done in camera.</p>
<p><strong>Mobile Connectivity</strong></p>
<p>For the first time in an EOS 5D series DSLR camera, the EOS 5D Mark IV features built-in Wi-Fi®<sup>1</sup> and Near-Field Communication (NFC)™<sup> 1</sup> providing for the easy transfer of images and MP4 movies to compatible mobile devices, as well remote shooting when using the Canon Camera Connect App<sup>2</sup>. The EOS 5D Mark IV also includes a built-in GPS<sup>3</sup> receiver with compass for precise geo-tagged information of latitude, longitude, and elevation. This is especially valuable to wildlife photographers and photojournalists who need to track their locations, as well as providing sports and wedding photographers the ability to sync a multiple-camera setup with extreme accuracy and precision. The camera’s built-in GPS can also be used to sync the camera’s time to the atomic clock, an invaluable feature when multiple photographers are covering the same event.</p>
<p><strong>Pricing and Availability</strong></p>
<p>The Canon EOS 5D Mark IV DSLR is currently scheduled to be available in early September 2016 for an estimated retail price of $3,499.00 for the body only<sup>††</sup>. It will also be sold as part of body-and-lens kits with the EF24-70mm f/4L lens ($4,399.00, scheduled to be available early September)<sup> ††</sup> and the EF24-105mm f/4L IS II USM lens ($4599.00, scheduled to be available late October)<sup> ††</sup>.</p>
<p>For an exclusive, hands-on preview, the camera will be available at the customer support centers shown below.  Visitors can experience the camera firsthand while Canon technical experts demonstrate new product features, answer questions, and spotlight the benefits of Canon products and service.</p>
<ul>
<li>Canon Customer Care Center, Melville, NY –

Monday, August 29, 11am-2pm

<a href="https://www.regonline.com/CLLLI16_August29">https://www.regonline.com/CLLLI16_August29</a></li>
<li>Canon Experience Center, Costa Mesa, CA –

Tuesday, August 30, 7pm-9pm

<a href="https://www.regonline.com/CEC16_August30">https://www.regonline.com/CEC16_August30</a></li>
<li>Canon Professional Service & Support Center, Itasca, IL –

Friday, September 2, 11am-2pm

<a href="https://www.regonline.com/ItascaSeptember2016">https://www.regonline.com/ItascaSeptember2016</a></li>
</ul>
<p><strong>New Canon EF Lenses and EOS Accessories</strong></p>
<p>In addition to the new EOS 5D Mark IV DSLR, Canon is also introducing two EF-Series L-series lenses as well as a variety of EOS accessories. The new EF 16-35mm f/2.8L III USM Ultra-Wide Zoom Lens features a large diameter GMO dual surface aspherical lens and ground aspherical lens, f/2.8 aperture throughout the entire zoom range, fluorine coating, improved durability and is dust and water resistant. The new EF 24-105mm f/4L IS II USM Standard Zoom lens features an improved four-stop image stabilization as well as ghosting and flare reduction with air sphere coating. The Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L III USM Ultra-Wide Zoom Lens is scheduled to be available late in October for an estimated retail price of $2,199.00<sup>††</sup> and the EF 24-105mm f/4L IS II USM  Standard Zoom Lens is scheduled to be available in late October for an estimated retail price of $1,099.00<sup>††</sup>.</p>
<p>Additional EOS accessories include the Canon Battery Grip BG-E20, Canon Rain Cover ERC-E5S/E5M/E5L and Canon Protecting Cloth PC-E1.</p>
<p>For more information about all these products and accessories, please visit:<strong> <a href="https://www.usa.canon.com/5D4Legend">https://www.usa.canon.com/5D4Legend</a></strong></p>
<p><em>† Based on weekly patent counts issued by United States Patent and Trademark Office.</em></p>
<p><em><sup>1 </sup></em><em>Compatible with iOS<sup>®</sup> versions </em><em>7.1/8.4/9.0</em><em>, Android<sup>TM</sup> </em><em>smartphone and tablet versions</em> <em>4.0/4.1/4.2/4.3/4.4/5.0/5.1.</em><em>  Data charges may apply with the download of the free Canon Camera Connect app. This app helps enable you to upload images to social media services. Please note that image files may contain personally identifiable information that may implicate privacy laws. Canon disclaims and has no responsibility for your use of such images. Canon does not obtain, collect or use such images or any information included in such images through this app.</em></p>
<p><em><sup>2 </sup></em><em>Data charges may apply with the download of the free Canon Camera Connect app. This app helps enable you to upload images to social media services. Please note that image files may contain personally identifiable information that may implicate privacy laws. Canon disclaims and has no responsibility for your use of such images. Canon does not obtain, collect or use such images or any information included in such images through this app.</em></p>
<p><em><sup>3 </sup></em><em>In certain countries and regions, the use of GPS may be restricted. Therefore be sure to use GPS in accordance with the laws and regulations of your country or region. Be particularly careful when traveling outside your home country. As a signal is received from GPS satellites, take sufficient measures when using in locations where the use of electronics is regulated.</em><sup> </sup></p>
<p><em>* Saving a still image from a single movie frame does not result in the same image quality as a normal still image.</em></p>
<p><em>** Continuous shooting speed may vary depending on the shutter speed, the aperture, the lens being used, the battery charge and various camera settings.</em></p>
<p><em>*** When lens diaphragm setting is fully open, adjustment volume and compensation effect are emphasized. Sufficient adjustment volume and compensation effect may not be achieved, depending on lens in use and shooting conditions. Adjustment volume and compensation effect vary depending on camera position (landscape or portrait). Sufficient adjustment volume and compensation effect may not be achieved depending on the shooting conditions.</em></p>
<p><em><sup>††</sup></em><em>Availability, prices and specifications are subject to change without notice. Actual prices are set by individual dealers and may vary.</em></p>
<p>Preorder Links are below:</p>
<p><strong>Canon EOS 5D Mark IV Body

</strong><em>Shipping in early September, 2016</em></p>
<ul>
<li><strong>USA </strong><em>$3499</em><strong>:</strong> <a href="https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1274705-REG/canon_eos_5d_mark_iv.html/bi/2466/kbid/3296">B&H Photo</a> | <a href="http://amzn.to/2bk6MtW">Amazon</a> | <a href="http://www.adorama.com/ICA5DM4.html?KBID=64393">Adorama</a> | <a href="http://bit.ly/2bkM0ze">Canon Store</a> | <a href="http://mpex.com/canon-5d-mark-iv-dslr-camera-body-only.html?acc=3">Midwest Photo</a> **</li>
<li><strong>UK </strong><em>£3599</em><strong>:</strong> <a href="http://tidd.ly/aadf0b57">Park Cameras</a> | <strong>Germany </strong><em>€4065</em><strong>:</strong> <a href="https://ad.zanox.com/ppc/?39064896C77526565&ULP=[[https://www.calumetphoto.de/product/Canon-EOS-5D-Mark-IV-Gehause/CANEOS5DMIV]]">Calumet</a></li>
</ul>
<p><em>** Free 32gb SanDisk Extreme Pro SDHC Card from <a href="http://mpex.com/canon-5d-mark-iv-dslr-camera-body-only.html?acc=3">Midwest Photo</a> on body only preorders, you do not need to add the card to your cart, it will be shipped automatically.</em></p>
<p><strong>Canon EOS 5D Mark IV w/24-70mm f/4L IS

</strong><em>Shipping in early September, 2016</em><strong>

</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><strong>USA </strong><em>$4399</em><strong>:</strong> <a href="https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1274707-REG/canon_eos_5d_mark_iv.html/BI/2466/KBID/3296">B&H Photo</a> | <a href="http://amzn.to/2bGW3NA">Amazon</a> | <a href="http://www.adorama.com/ICA5DM4K1.html?KBID=64393">Adorama</a> | <a href="http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/eos-5d-mark-iv-ef-24-70-f4l-is-usm-lens-kit">Canon Store</a> | <a href="http://mpex.com/canon-5d-mark-iv-dslr-camera-with-24-70mm-f-4l-is-lens.html?acc=3">Midwest Photo</a></li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Canon EOS 5D Mark IV w/24-105mm f/4L IS II

</strong><em>Shipping in late October, 2016</em></p>
<ul>
<li><strong>USA </strong><em>$4599</em><strong>:</strong> <a href="https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1274706-REG/canon_eos_5d_mark_iv.html/BI/2466/KBID/3296">B&H Photo</a> | <a href="http://amzn.to/2byaGDh">Amazon</a> | <a href="http://www.adorama.com/ica5dm4k.html?utm_source=rflaid64393">Adorama</a> | <a href="http://bit.ly/2bJ0irD">Canon Store</a> | <a href="http://mpex.com/canon-5d-mark-iv-dslr-camera-with-24-105mm-f-4l-is-ii-lens.html?acc=3">Midwest Photo</a></li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Canon BG-E20 Battery Grip for EOS 5D Mark IV

</strong><em>Shipping in early September, 2016</em><strong>

</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><strong>USA </strong><em>$349</em><strong>:</strong> <a href="https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1276214-REG/canon_1485c001_bg_e20_battery_grip_for.html/bi/2466/kbid/3296">B&H Photo</a> | <a href="http://amzn.to/2bhTQFq">Amazon</a> | <a href="http://www.adorama.com/ICABGE20.html?KBID=64393">Adorama</a> | <a href="http://bit.ly/2bkK1eD">Canon Store</a> | <a href="http://mpex.com/canon-bg-e20-battery-grip.html?acc=3">Midwest Photo</a></li>
<li><strong>UK </strong><em>£329</em><strong>:</strong> <a href="http://tidd.ly/dcb65289">Park Cameras</a> | <strong>Germany:</strong> Calumet</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Canon EF 16-35mm f/2.8L III USM

</strong><em>Shipping in late October, 2016</em><strong>

</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><strong>USA </strong><em>$2199</em><strong>:</strong> <a href="https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1274708-REG/canon_ef_16_35mm_f_2_8l_iii.html/BI/2466/KBID/3296">B&H Photo</a> | <a href="http://amzn.to/2bPL0jq">Amazon</a> | <a href="http://www.adorama.com/CA16353.html?KBID=64393">Adorama</a> | <a href="http://bit.ly/2bkKGfQ">Canon Store</a> | <a href="http://mpex.com/canon-ef-16-35mm-f-2-8l-iii-lens.html?acc=3">Midwest Photo</a></li>
<li><strong>UK </strong><em>£2349</em><strong>:</strong> <a href="http://tidd.ly/97c26534">Park Cameras</a> | <strong>Germany:</strong> Calumet</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS II USM

</strong><em>Shipping in late October, 2016</em><strong>

</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><strong>USA </strong><em>$1099</em><strong>:</strong> <a href="https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1274709-REG/canon_ef_24_105mm_f_4l_is.html/BI/2466/KBID/3296">B&H Photo</a> | <a href="http://amzn.to/2bpjIRq">Amazon</a> | <a href="http://www.adorama.com/CA241052.html?KBID=64393">Adorama</a> | <a href="http://bit.ly/2bIZnYi">Canon Store</a> | <a href="http://mpex.com/canon-ef-24-105mm-f-4l-is-ii-lens.html?acc=3">Midwest Photo</a></li>
<li><strong>UK </strong><em>£1129</em><strong>:</strong> <a href="http://tidd.ly/c633e78d">Park Cameras</a> | <strong>Germany:</strong> Calumet</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Canon W-E1 Wifi Adaptor</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><strong>USA </strong><em>$39</em><strong>:</strong> <a href="https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1274710-REG/canon_w_e1_wi_fi_adapter.html/bi/2466/kbid/3296">B&H Photo</a> | Amazon | <a href="http://www.adorama.com/ICAWE1.html?KBID=64393">Adorama</a> | <a href="http://bit.ly/2bJ0A1H">Canon Store</a> | <a href="http://mpex.com/canon-w-e1-wi-fi-adapter.html?acc=3">Midwest Photo</a></li>
<li><strong>UK </strong><em>£39</em><strong>:</strong> <a href="http://tidd.ly/caec32c9">Park Cameras</a> | <strong>Germany:</strong> Calumet</li>
</ul>
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## Dave Del Real (Aug 25, 2016)

Wow....finally.


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## PureClassA (Aug 25, 2016)

Well that confirms pretty much everything. Kudos to CR again for getting it all out in advance.

Looks like a great camera. Off to buy a 1DX2 instead ;D


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## winfel (Aug 25, 2016)

It would be nice to know what is behind the stars, especially that one after the new RAW format. Could you post it... wherever you got the press release from. I can find it nowhere else.


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## PhotographerJim (Aug 25, 2016)

I'm really looking forward to this, especially that new 24–105, i'm glad to see they didn't raise the price much


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## rrcphoto (Aug 25, 2016)

well we know it's coming out tonight.

find out all those asterix's and what the heck Dual Pixel RAW is in 4.5 hours or so.


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## aceflibble (Aug 25, 2016)

Nice to have some vindication. 18 months ago I was telling the rumour sites that the 24-105 mk II would be coming with the 5D4, and every single one of 'em called me a liar.

Anyhoo. Yay, I guess. It's everything we all expected and knew it would be. Looks like the second hand prices for the 5D2 and 5D3 will be dropping very soon. (And probably the 6D, a little.)


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## Cochese (Aug 25, 2016)

Come on Canon! Release this camera so the 5DMIII price will drop and I can finally afford one. : D


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## Quackator (Aug 25, 2016)

What about Wifi "tethering" via EOS utility onto a computer?
Don't tell me it only tethers to smartphones.....

The connect station is a toy for computer illiterate grandparents.
It can't even be mapped as a network drive.


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## arbitrage (Aug 25, 2016)

Where is the rest of the announcement. I'd like to know what the asterisks are next to 7FPS and Dual-Pixel RAW.....


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 25, 2016)

arbitrage said:


> Where is the rest of the announcement. I'd like to know what the asterisks are next to 7FPS and Dual-Pixel RAW.....



Refresh


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## rrcphoto (Aug 25, 2016)

arbitrage said:


> Where is the rest of the announcement. I'd like to know what the asterisks are next to 7FPS and Dual-Pixel RAW.....



It's a leaked announcement. We're lucky to get this. Wait another 4 hours for the real announcement.


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## eoren1 (Aug 25, 2016)

For all the speculation about Dual Pixel RAW, this line just...sucks:

Dual Pixel RAW***, in-camera Digital Lens Optimizer during JPEG shooting and Diffraction Correction technologies.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 25, 2016)

eoren1 said:


> For all the speculation about Dual Pixel RAW, this line just...sucks:
> 
> Dual Pixel RAW***, in-camera Digital Lens Optimizer during JPEG shooting and Diffraction Correction technologies.



Lol why? It doesn't say anything really

This sounds weird though...
*** When lens diaphragm setting is fully open, adjustment volume and compensation effect are emphasized. Sufficient adjustment volume and compensation effect may not be achieved, depending on lens in use and shooting conditions. Adjustment volume and compensation effect vary depending on camera position (landscape or portrait). Sufficient adjustment volume and compensation effect may not be achieved depending on the shooting conditions.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

***Dual Pixel RAW may not be all it's cracked up to be. Caveat. Another caveat. Maybe one more caveat for good measure.


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## arbitrage (Aug 25, 2016)

Canon Rumors said:


> arbitrage said:
> 
> 
> > Where is the rest of the announcement. I'd like to know what the asterisks are next to 7FPS and Dual-Pixel RAW.....
> ...



Thanks


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## davidj (Aug 25, 2016)

Body only: $3,499
Body + 24-105 kit: $4599
24-105: $1,099

Why buy the kit? If my maths is right, it saves no money than buying separately (and actually costs a dollar more).


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## PureClassA (Aug 25, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> ***Dual Pixel RAW may not be all it's cracked up to be. Caveat. Another caveat. Maybe one more caveat for good measure.



Dual Pixel RAW***, in-camera Digital Lens Optimizer during JPEG shooting and Diffraction Correction technologies.

Read more: http://www.canonrumors.com#ixzz4IJ1eiYO0

*** When lens diaphragm setting is fully open, adjustment volume and compensation effect are emphasized. Sufficient adjustment volume and compensation effect may not be achieved, depending on lens in use and shooting conditions. Adjustment volume and compensation effect vary depending on camera position (landscape or portrait). Sufficient adjustment volume and compensation effect may not be achieved depending on the shooting conditions.

Read more: http://www.canonrumors.com#ixzz4IJ1WWeIp

I suspect we a full unveiling and demo of this DP RAW tomorrow


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## rrcphoto (Aug 25, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > ***Dual Pixel RAW may not be all it's cracked up to be. Caveat. Another caveat. Maybe one more caveat for good measure.
> ...



I'm sure dpreview will have it ridiculed by 1:15am


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## unfocused (Aug 25, 2016)

davidj said:


> Body only: $3,499
> Body + 24-105 kit: $4599
> 24-105: $1,099
> 
> Why buy the kit? If my maths is right, it saves no money than buying separately (and actually costs a dollar more).



I noticed this too. It's pretty much the same with the 24-70 as well. I don't recall if this is typical or not, but I don't think it is.


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## eoren1 (Aug 25, 2016)

I get the point about a comma after Dual Pixel RAW*** 

However, there is no point in adding 'DLO during JPEG shooting' as a prominent bullet when that has been present in the 5D previously. This may well be a much more advance form of DLO and diffraction correction but the concern is that it is limited to in-camera JPEGs


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## KiagiJ (Aug 25, 2016)

A word of advice, don't believe any of the canon affiliated YouTube videos about it, wait for Independant reviews. I love my 1dx2 but believed all the early video hype about it being a stop cleaner high iso than the 1dx, so, that was bs in hindsight, they flat out lie to u, including those fancy photographers, basically anyone that gets it before release is compromised


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## rrcphoto (Aug 25, 2016)

eoren1 said:


> I get the point about a comma after Dual Pixel RAW***
> 
> However, there is no point in adding 'DLO during JPEG shooting' as a prominent bullet when that has been present in the 5D previously. This may well be a much more advance form of DLO and diffraction correction but the concern is that it is limited to in-camera JPEGs


No it wasn't. DLO is only in the 1dx mark ii.


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## tron (Aug 25, 2016)

unfocused said:


> davidj said:
> 
> 
> > Body only: $3,499
> ...


Maybe this will change quickly. Also this situation may be different in Europe where prices are much higher...


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## Talley (Aug 25, 2016)

I read it as you may not get any dual pixel raw benefits if your taking landscapes but it's more for portrait... says results may vary type thing depending on the shooting situation.

I think without a doubt it will be a focus shift AND allow for greater and/or tighter DOF adjustment albiet small changes.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

eoren1 said:


> I get the point about a comma after Dual Pixel RAW***
> 
> However, there is no point in adding 'DLO during JPEG shooting' as a prominent bullet when that has been present in the 5D previously. This may well be a much more advance form of DLO and diffraction correction but the concern is that it is limited to in-camera JPEGs



_Dual Pixel RAW***, in-camera Digital Lens Optimizer during JPEG shooting and Diffraction Correction technologies._

They are listing three different image-correction features. DP-RAW writes out RAW files (twice the size of regular RAW files), not JPGs.


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## eoren1 (Aug 25, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> eoren1 said:
> 
> 
> > I get the point about a comma after Dual Pixel RAW***
> ...



I stand corrected, DLO could be set to ON in the 5DmkIII but required DPP in post
In the 5DmkIV, DLO can be done in-camera on JPEGs

For those who only shoot RAW, it barely deserves the bullet point let alone any glorification as Dual Pixel RAW. 

I hope I'm wrong in my reading and that Canon truly has something useful to do with that new tech.


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## eoren1 (Aug 25, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> eoren1 said:
> 
> 
> > I get the point about a comma after Dual Pixel RAW***
> ...



Oxford comma would have been very helpful here


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## PureClassA (Aug 25, 2016)

Talley said:


> I read it as you may not get any dual pixel raw benefits if your taking landscapes but it's more for portrait... says results may vary type thing depending on the shooting situation.
> 
> I think without a doubt it will be a focus shift AND allow for greater and/or tighter DOF adjustment albiet small changes.



Sure it's going to vary. Your latitude to adjust peak focus is going to be a whole lot bigger if you shot at f8 on a 24mm lens, 20 feet from your target vs f2 on a 135mm at 3 feet. I'm sure it wont matter whether you shoot landscape or portrait. It's going to depend on focal length, distance to target, and aperture (DOF)


----------



## Pompo (Aug 25, 2016)

You are exactly right! All these "Explorers of Light" and ANYONE that gets anything from Canon or ANY brand in advance, are not to be trusted.



KiagiJ said:


> A word of advice, don't believe any of the canon affiliated YouTube videos about it, wait for Independant reviews. I love my 1dx2 but believed all the early video hype about it being a stop cleaner high iso than the 1dx, so, that was bs in hindsight, they flat out lie to u, including those fancy photographers, basically anyone that gets it before release is compromised


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 25, 2016)

Pompo said:


> You are exactly right! All these "Explorers of Light" and ANYONE that gets anything from Canon or ANY brand in advance, are not to be trusted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I shot with both. Maybe he was using his wrong. Or never used one...


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 25, 2016)

eoren1 said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > eoren1 said:
> ...


I have no idea how you are reading that.

Dlo in camera is a big thing. It does 18 different corrections for AA filter, aperture, diffraction, and lens abberations. And no you don't set it in camera in the 5d mark iii either. It's like having dxooptics pro in camera for jpeg only shooters.

Alot of people ARE jpeg shooters.

There is a comma there,so I have no idea why you think they are related


----------



## marvinhello (Aug 25, 2016)

eoren1 said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > eoren1 said:
> ...



On 5D III, peripheral illumination correction and chromatic abberation correction can be applied to JPEGs in camera (if the lens is compatible), it also applies in real time during video shooting as well. 

Since 7D II, 5DS/R and 1DX II, Canon added diffraction correction and distortion correction, these two new corrections cannot be used when shooting video.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 25, 2016)

marvinhello said:


> eoren1 said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



That's not DLO.

here's a description of DLO .. since there's obviously some confusion.

http://web.canon.jp/imaging/dlo/effect/index.html

Edit: the 7D Mark II does not have in camera diffraction correction and I don't think it's in the 5Ds either.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> I'm sure it wont matter whether you shoot landscape or portrait. It's going to depend on focal length, distance to target, and aperture (DOF)



But it will matter whether the camera is in landscape or portrait orientation, because of the directionality of the dual pixels.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 25, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sure it wont matter whether you shoot landscape or portrait. It's going to depend on focal length, distance to target, and aperture (DOF)
> ...



does make sense.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 25, 2016)

3 hours before dpreview puts the camera down as the fail of the year and does a shoutout to sony.. 8)


----------



## pwp (Aug 25, 2016)

There's no bragging from Canon about improved ISO performance. So no improvement?
Any mention of a return of red illuminated AF points? Hell I've missed those. 

Otherwise nice work CR over the past couple of weeks. 

-pw


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 25, 2016)

pwp said:


> There's no bragging from Canon about improved ISO performance. So no improvement?
> Any mention of a return of red illuminated AF points? Hell I've missed those.



that announcement was REALLY LIGHT on details.

heck the rumors gave more info


----------



## Refurb7 (Aug 25, 2016)

Pompo said:


> You are exactly right! All these "Explorers of Light" and ANYONE that gets anything from Canon or ANY brand in advance, are not to be trusted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Very true. And true for all brands. If you get the camera early, you are beholden to the company and probably get a nice discount too. Hard to be 100% honest when you have a financial tie and privilege. 

The Sony, Fuji and Olympus ambassadors are especially egregious because every one of them (that I've seen) uses the word "Review" in their product launch articles. This is to make readers (and Google) think those are bona fide independent reviews and not directly tied to a manufacturer's marketing launch. It effectively sucks up all the initial Google searches for actual reviews of the product. Some include a disclaimer about their affiliation at the top, but some sneakily put it at the bottom or on their bio page.

Product launch articles are *not* Reviews and should not be titled as such. Misleading. Misleading. Misleading. I sincerely hope the Canon ambassadors don't play this phony "Review" game.


----------



## KiagiJ (Aug 25, 2016)

'Since 7D II, 5DS/R and 1DX II, Canon added diffraction correction and distortion correction, these two new corrections cannot be used when shooting video'

It's annoying u can't have distortion correction during video, and doesn't make sense. I noticed on my 1dx2 there's a live feed of distortion correction in live view, so, why can't it just record that at the same time? ugh


----------



## Chaitanya (Aug 25, 2016)

Skipping it, waiting for 6D replacement as long as it comes with Dual SD slots(since its dumbass Canon) keeping expectations low.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 25, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> Well that confirms pretty much everything. Kudos to CR again for getting it all out in advance.
> 
> Looks like a great camera. Off to buy a 1DX2 instead ;D



I'm kinda leaning that way too (but I'll get a 1Dx). I'm not a fan of full sized, but i can get used to it, and am getting a 600/4 with which it will pair nicely.


----------



## ritholtz (Aug 25, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> 3 hours before dpreview puts the camera down as the fail of the year and does a shoutout to sony.. 8)


DPR dude is still recycling same articles written comparing 1dx2 with D5 during 1dx2 release. He even claimed video is not important for D5 target group when competing camera 1dx2 went big with video features. ;D ;D . Then complained about lack of some video features on 1dx2 compared to competition. After all the stuff he wrote about importance of low ISO DR, he declared D5 low ISO DR is not a problem except for hardcore landscape shooters. He even compared D5 DR with 6D for his satisfaction. ;D ;D


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 25, 2016)

ritholtz said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > 3 hours before dpreview puts the camera down as the fail of the year and does a shoutout to sony.. 8)
> ...



not to mention there was no mention really outside of the DR page of the D5's simply incredibly horrible banding.


----------



## nightscape123 (Aug 25, 2016)

Man I really want those MTF curves for the new lenses... come on canon hurry up!


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 25, 2016)

nightscape123 said:


> Man I really want those MTF curves for the new lenses... come on canon hurry up!



patience.. it's not even announced yet.


----------



## ritholtz (Aug 25, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> ritholtz said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...


Yah. He chooses the context to put Canon down. When it comes to Nikon, he goes with different context and brings target group into criteria if needed. They started saying how 80D specs are inferior compared to competition who are offering superior video specs. Then for D5, he says video is not important for that target group. I do not know why Canon bothered putting in so much effort into video on 1DX2 if it is not important.


----------



## ScottyP (Aug 25, 2016)

Do the AF points stay illuminated for shooting in low light?


----------



## sanj (Aug 25, 2016)

7 fps is let down. I was hoping for 8.

And any info on auto exposure linked with focus point?


----------



## KiagiJ (Aug 25, 2016)

ScottyP said:


> Do the AF points stay illuminated for shooting in low light?



You can choose that on the 1dx2, so, probably


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Aug 25, 2016)

It really depends upon the quality factors and usability factors.

For video, canon DIGIC 6 and non-oversampled video even match the old A7R II 4k for quality or will it be soft or waxy as usual? Did they even leave C-LOG out too? Did they once again leave out the most basic, low level usability features such as 100% live zoom box for focusing, focus peaking and zebras?

For stills will the sensor stand up to what Nikon gets out of Exmor?

Just going by 5D3, 1DC, 1DX2, 80D I unfortunately have doubts, but it would be awesome if they do deliver all the above and would be a hell of a camera.

Would also be about time they linked metering to AF point. If it does all of the above though I can forgive linked metering though. If it doesn't do all of the above then it seems a bit crippled for this late of an arrival (sensor performance still not a match for best of 4 years ago, video not as good as that from more than a year ago, still no metering to AF point, etc.).

If the fact you can set LCD color temp also implies it's fairly well calibrated that would be a very, very handy thing indeed. The apparent all points f/8 with extenders and tons more high precision AF sounds good. 7fps is OK, may quickly seem a touch weak for the class though, but if they actually do pull off all of the above, not the end of the world since if you got top quality and usable 4k video, an Exmor sensor quality and calibrated LCD and Canon UI and Canon lenses 7fps not being 8-9fps can easily be overlooked.


----------



## Chaitanya (Aug 25, 2016)

KiagiJ said:


> ScottyP said:
> 
> 
> > Do the AF points stay illuminated for shooting in low light?
> ...


Same dumb reason why no other Canon camera get AF linked spot metering.


----------



## pwp (Aug 25, 2016)

3kramd5 said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > Well that confirms pretty much everything. Kudos to CR again for getting it all out in advance.
> ...



Feeling a little that way myself. I haven't had a 1-Series since a 1D MkIV, retired it only last year. 
Just sitting tight for the full, complete, unabridged spec list on the 5D MkIV, but have to say that 1DX MkII is looking good.

-pw


----------



## adhocphotographer (Aug 25, 2016)

pwp said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > PureClassA said:
> ...



Same here, and to be honest I am not blown away by the specs. iso range from 100-3200 ... does this mean no improvements (or even worse) iso performance? If so, 1DXII here i come!


----------



## frodoboy (Aug 25, 2016)

"This sounds weird though...
*** When lens diaphragm setting is fully open, adjustment volume and compensation effect are emphasized. Sufficient adjustment volume and compensation effect may not be achieved, depending on lens in use and shooting conditions. Adjustment volume and compensation effect vary depending on camera position (landscape or portrait). Sufficient adjustment volume and compensation effect may not be achieved depending on the shooting conditions."

I agree. That one totally baffled me! lol


----------



## drs (Aug 25, 2016)

A lot went right with this camera. 
I'll certainly order one. Well done Canon.


----------



## pwp (Aug 25, 2016)

DP Review have just posted first impressions....
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-first-impressions-review

-pw


----------



## arbitrage (Aug 25, 2016)

From DPReview on Dual-Pixel RAW:

Dual Pixel Raw

For the first time, the 5D IV will be able to save double-size Raw files that store data from the left- and right-facing separately. This information can then be used in a variety of ways.

Micro Adjust

Because the left and right-facing pixels see a slightly different perspective of the scene, it's possible to take advantage of this slight separation. Just as Lytro's light field camera split light across multiple pixels to capture where the light had come from, the Canon gains a tiny bit of insight into the direction that the light has arrived from. And, like the Lytro, this then allows you to render the image as if focused on a slightly different point, but with a very different trade-off being struck between resolution and degree of refocusability.

This means you can render an image with a very slightly different point of focus, as you process in Canon's Digital Photo Professional software. With the Lytro, you gained greater refocusability when you shot close-up (just as you usually get shallower depth-of-field in conventional photography), so we believe the degree to which you can effectively correct focus to be commensurate with how shallow the depth of field is in your shot.

Even so, we expect the degree of correction to be very small, which would explain Canon's repeated concerns about comparisons to Lytro or suggestions that focus itself was being changed.

Bokeh shift

Another use of the two slightly different views is the ability to view the out-of-focus regions of the image from either perspective. You can shift the position of the bokeh slightly, from one position to the other. We're not entirely sure why, but you can.

Flare reduction

It's actually the least exciting sounding use of the Dual Pixel Raw that may be the most useful. Because flare tends to come from light coming in from one side of the lens, it means that it will only be seen by either the left or right-looking pixels. This means that information from the other half of the sensor can be used selectively to cancel-out the effect of this flare (on those occasions where it wasn't an intentional part of your capture.)


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 25, 2016)

And here we go


----------



## Roo (Aug 25, 2016)

$5699 rrp in Oz  now off my shopping list for now


----------



## AAPhotog (Aug 25, 2016)

I wonder why all of the videos are private. I want to see that "trip to the beach" 4k video on canon asia youtube page


----------



## PhotographyFirst (Aug 25, 2016)

Micro Adjust seems like it is for adjusting the sharpness in the image to select masked areas, using the data from the DP files to know exactly where is in focus and where is not. 

All the language seems to point to this being the function. NOT a micro focus adjustment in post. Still very useful for shooters doing gigs with thousands of shots to process. No longer need to mask, it's already to go. Also think of the possibilities for background replacement without green screens? Would it be better than a contrast detection style software solution?

The flare control thing is really cool though. I suppose it will increase noise by 1 stop in some areas of the image?


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 25, 2016)

looks like Neuro was right when he said the dual pixel micro-adjustment was a selective sharpness adjustment using depth information. That's useful, but has nothing to do with a focus adjustment that some imaginative but uninformed web sites have posted.


----------



## tpatana (Aug 25, 2016)

I thought we'd get some nice bundle if we signed up for preorder... no email yet for me.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 25, 2016)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> looks like Neuro was right when he said the dual pixel micro-adjustment was a selective sharpness adjustment using depth information. That's useful, but has nothing to do with a focus adjustment that some imaginative but uninformed web sites have posted.



Now I'm more anxious to see if we will have a firmware announcement for the 1DX2 tomorrow as well or at least during Photokina


----------



## tpatana (Aug 25, 2016)

The "Making of day at the beach" demo video, did they use cell phone as external screen?


----------



## FECHariot (Aug 25, 2016)

so two years after Nikon releases the D750, we get:

.5 more FPS
6mp more
10 more AF points
4K versus 1080 video 
Dual pixel AF

And it costs us $1500 more.

These are specs that I would have expected in a $2000 6D2


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 25, 2016)

tpatana said:


> The "Making of day at the beach" demo video, did they use cell phone as external screen?



No. That's a Small HD 502 monitor via HDMI that is mounted to the Ronin M3. It's actually built in an iPhone Body, so it's deceiving. Really great little monitor. Expensive suckers too


----------



## Maiaibing (Aug 25, 2016)

eoren1 said:



> For all the speculation about Dual Pixel RAW, this line just...sucks:
> 
> Dual Pixel RAW***, in-camera Digital Lens Optimizer during JPEG shooting and Diffraction Correction technologies.


Yeah, that was a joy-kill. No pre-order here until I know what this is supposed to be doing. Also, only works with a wide open lens (not a problem for me)


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 25, 2016)

Maiaibing said:


> eoren1 said:
> 
> 
> > For all the speculation about Dual Pixel RAW, this line just...sucks:
> ...



Video on Canon USA has nice demo of it, albeit brief demo


----------



## Maiaibing (Aug 25, 2016)

dilbert said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > davidj said:
> ...


Whatever, the kit package will start dropping more than the two separate packages together. Maybe Canon also hopes some people will go for the kit in the beginning because body-only is limited(??).


----------



## Flamingtree (Aug 25, 2016)

Roo said:


> $5699 rrp in Oz  now off my shopping list for now



Brutal isn't it.

I see on the Aussie site you can only get it with the 24-70 f2.8 in a bundle for pre order. 

I am no expert but they may have set the price a little high to drum up business down under. I guess time will tell what happens to the price. 

Like you, it's off my list for the foreseeable future.


----------



## KiagiJ (Aug 25, 2016)

YouTube videos already up

Nice example of dual pixel raw... https://youtu.be/HcQ9MSRRvn4

I hope they firmware upgrade that for the 1dx2!


----------



## justsomedude (Aug 25, 2016)

Preordered.

Now gimmeh.


----------



## blindcat (Aug 25, 2016)

First posted body price for germany 4065,- Euro
Hihi. Off the list for a while.


----------



## gmrza (Aug 25, 2016)

Roo said:


> $5699 rrp in Oz  now off my shopping list for now



Michaels is advertising it for $4999. They are generally not the cheapest, so expect street prices to drop below $5000. I would give it at least a year for prices to settle.
For most of those who have the 5DIII, there is hardly a desperate need to upgrade, unless you have really punished your 5DIII.


----------



## benperrin (Aug 25, 2016)

Changing the focus slightly looks to be an excellent feature. I'm interested to see more but for now this is out of my price range (expensive in Australia).


----------



## davidj (Aug 25, 2016)

gmrza said:


> Roo said:
> 
> 
> > $5699 rrp in Oz  now off my shopping list for now
> ...



I came here to say that. Canon's web store is $5699, JB is $5699, Teds is $5199, and Michaels is $4999. It's being offered as body only or with the 24-70 2.8. I'm guessing they'll start offering the kit with the new 24-105 a bit later on, which will mirror what they did in Australia with the 5D III with the premium kit (24-105) and the professional kit (24-70 2.8 ).

It's a lot of money, but AU$4999 is slightly less than the US price of US$3499 plus 10% GST.


----------



## Flamingtree (Aug 25, 2016)

davidj said:


> gmrza said:
> 
> 
> > Roo said:
> ...



That's some positive news. What's your feeling on kit price with the new 24-105 when it comes out?


----------



## wockawocka (Aug 25, 2016)

3599 gbp for the uk, Canon, you been smoking crack. £3000 I would of bought two, £3299 I would of bought one for a start but £3599 is enough for me to stick with my 5dsr's.

It's not like I can't afford it, I can get 20% of the tax back. Just a very toppy rrp.


----------



## Diko (Aug 25, 2016)

Here is the *B&H Product* *video*.


Here is another more sinful detailed commented *video from Jared Polin*.


----------



## davidj (Aug 25, 2016)

Flamingtree said:


> That's some positive news. What's your feeling on kit price with the new 24-105 when it comes out?



Some Canon web store prices (all AUD):

* 5D III: $3349
* 5D III + 24-105: $4299
* 5D III + 24-70: $5909
* 5D IV: $5699
* 5D IV + 24-70: $8399

Presumably a new 24-105 II kit will cost a few hundred more than the old one, so I'd expect it to be something like $6899 or $6999. I take comfort in the fact that Michaels prices are a lot cheaper ($4999 body, $7299 24-70 kit), so their 24-105 kit might be around $6299.


----------



## KeithBreazeal (Aug 25, 2016)

This might be interesting...
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/promotion/12088/canon-eos-5d-mark-iv.html?utm_medium=Email%201624262&utm_campaign=NewAnnouncement&utm_source=Canon%20160825&utm_content=Retail&utm_term=canon-live-panel-discussion


----------



## nickvera (Aug 25, 2016)

1.74x crop for 4k. MJPG files. LOL I'm out. I'll continue to use gorgeous canon lenses like my 85mm 1.2L II, but I'm switching to Sony bodies. That was a dumb and forceful mistake to go against the videographer market. That market doesn't care much for the C series. I would rather rent an Alexa Mini.


----------



## nickvera (Aug 25, 2016)

Here's what I'm talking about. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/news/canon-5d-mark-iv-arrives-two-updated-l-series-lenses?utm_medium=Email%201624262&utm_campaign=NewAnnouncement&utm_source=Canon%20160825&utm_content=Explora&utm_term=canon-5d-mark-iv-arrives


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 25, 2016)

nickvera said:


> 1.74x crop for 4k. MJPG files. LOL I'm out. I'll continue to use gorgeous canon lenses like my 85mm 1.2L II, but I'm switching to Sony bodies. That was a dumb and forceful mistake to go against the videographer market. That market doesn't care much for the C series. I would rather rent an Alexa Mini.



want some cheese with that excellent whine?


----------



## saveyourmoment (Aug 25, 2016)

The price here in germany is ridiculous!!!


----------



## Wesley (Aug 25, 2016)

Anti-alias filter?
UHS-II?
Touchscreen photo playback? 

Flash sync is 1/200?


----------



## Tangent (Aug 25, 2016)

Evolution of New Canon 5D cameras:
1) Drooling for the leaked rumors
2) Crabby whinging about how it has poor this n that, it's not FF mirrorless -- Nikon, Sony, Fuji and iPhones are better...
3) The people who buy one find it dependable, usable, well-thought-out; produces great results.
4) The whingers find something else to whinge about. Whinging is a way of life for some.
5) Repeat steps 1-4 for next upgrade cycle.

I love that Briticism verb whinge. It's like turbo-whining.


----------



## tpatana (Aug 25, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> nickvera said:
> 
> 
> > 1.74x crop for 4k. MJPG files. LOL I'm out. I'll continue to use gorgeous canon lenses like my 85mm 1.2L II, but I'm switching to Sony bodies. That was a dumb and forceful mistake to go against the videographer market. That market doesn't care much for the C series. I would rather rent an Alexa Mini.
> ...



Lol


----------



## tpatana (Aug 25, 2016)

It says external recorder does FullHD with 4:2:2. So something like Ninja2 would pair up with that good? Or is there something better (in reasonable price range)?


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 25, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> nickvera said:
> 
> 
> > 1.74x crop for 4k. MJPG files. LOL I'm out. I'll continue to use gorgeous canon lenses like my 85mm 1.2L II, but I'm switching to Sony bodies. That was a dumb and forceful mistake to go against the videographer market. That market doesn't care much for the C series. I would rather rent an Alexa Mini.
> ...



I'd rather have no pixel binning on 4k. The Sony A7s doesnt either. But this camera is 30mp. Of course there has to be a crop if you want 1:1 in 4k. The a7s is great because you get FF 4k but you also only get a 12MP stills camera. This is a Stills camera first foremost. Period. Have some cheese.


----------



## Refurb7 (Aug 25, 2016)

Tangent said:


> Evolution of New Canon 5D cameras:
> 1) Drooling for the leaked rumors
> 2) Crabby whinging about how it has poor this n that, it's not FF mirrorless -- Nikon, Sony, Fuji and iPhones are better...
> 3) The people who buy one find it dependable, usable, well-thought-out; produces great results.
> ...



Indeed, it sounds worse with the British spelling.


----------



## Wesley (Aug 25, 2016)

nickvera said:


> 1.74x crop for 4k. MJPG files. LOL I'm out. I'll continue to use gorgeous canon lenses like my 85mm 1.2L II, but I'm switching to Sony bodies. That was a dumb and forceful mistake to go against the videographer market. That market doesn't care much for the C series. I would rather rent an Alexa Mini.



As you can see, this thread got put in the "EOS Bodies - For Stills" section :


----------



## norb (Aug 25, 2016)

FECHariot said:


> so two years after Nikon releases the D750, we get:
> 
> .5 more FPS
> 6mp more
> ...



WELL said!! The 5DIV is really disappointing


----------



## Refurb7 (Aug 25, 2016)

nickvera said:


> 1.74x crop for 4k. MJPG files. LOL I'm out. I'll continue to use gorgeous canon lenses like my 85mm 1.2L II, but I'm switching to Sony bodies. That was a dumb and forceful mistake to go against the videographer market. That market doesn't care much for the C series. I would rather rent an Alexa Mini.



I don't know the video market, but at the last wedding I photographed, the videographers were using a pair of the C series and seemingly loving them much more than whichever 5D they formerly used. They still had their 5D2 or 5D3, but were using it as a 3rd or 4th camera.


----------



## Bennymiata (Aug 25, 2016)

What's the new knob next to the joystick?


----------



## adhocphotographer (Aug 25, 2016)

nickvera said:


> Here's what I'm talking about. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/news/canon-5d-mark-iv-arrives-two-updated-l-series-lenses?utm_medium=Email%201624262&utm_campaign=NewAnnouncement&utm_source=Canon%20160825&utm_content=Explora&utm_term=canon-5d-mark-iv-arrives



I started as a photographer, but have been doing a lot of film work over the last year (just finished a documentary on water research in an Indian tiger reserve... a lot of fun to film and make). I was waiting for the 5D IV, but to be honest, I am a bit underwhelmed. hmmmm I'll have to think, this is not a clear cut decision, and the 1.7 crop kills me... I pay for a FF camera, for that special look....


----------



## adhocphotographer (Aug 25, 2016)

Bennymiata said:


> What's the new knob next to the joystick?



From what i can tell, a customisable button... i.e., set it to ISO, and you can press it a use a dial to change ISO... I like that!


----------



## arthurbikemad (Aug 25, 2016)

Like the extra button.

21 points at F8?

Looking closer I do feel a little dissapointed, but then on the other hand... don't think I'd ever use the dual pixel raw tbh.

Kind of glad I stumped up the extra and got a 1DX2. And I may add it's a weapon.

Prob end up with a Mk4 in the end, but only seems right to bitch about it hahaha


----------



## mistaspeedy (Aug 25, 2016)

So.... now that Canon has released this camera, and it's dual pixel RAW files, we have proof that Canon was working on two various HUGELY INNOVATIVE features, during the last number of years.
The first was for video focusing - dual pixel AF for smooth and accurate video focus.... a total game changer and Canon exclusive.

Second, which we are seeing now, are the three features enabled by this dual pixel RAW.

Focus micro-adjustment available in post-production
Bokeh-shift available in post-production
Ghosting reduction available in post-production

All three are also total game-changers and Canon exclusive.
Canon is highly innovative, and has implemented these new, Canon exclusive technologies in their products.
Forget the Lytro for any serious and professional photo system.

Yet I bet people will still whine and cry that Canon isn't being innovative.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 25, 2016)

adhocphotographer said:


> nickvera said:
> 
> 
> > Here's what I'm talking about. http://www.bhphotovideo.com/explora/photography/news/canon-5d-mark-iv-arrives-two-updated-l-series-lenses?utm_medium=Email%201624262&utm_campaign=NewAnnouncement&utm_source=Canon%20160825&utm_content=Explora&utm_term=canon-5d-mark-iv-arrives
> ...



4k Crop factor on 1DX2 is substantially less because it's 20mp instead of 30mp. Or get the 12mp Sony a7s if you want zero cropping on FF... But then you dont have a very good resolution stills camera.


----------



## Sporgon (Aug 25, 2016)

Good to see the CR influence in the DPR hands on review: Rishi is now referring to AI Servo ! ( but says its still not that good  )


----------



## Maximilian (Aug 25, 2016)

davidj said:


> Body only: $3,499
> Body + 24-105 kit: $4599
> 24-105: $1,099
> 
> Why buy the kit? If my maths is right, it saves no money than buying separately (and actually costs a dollar more).


That's just a ridiculous price policy : : :

Even more ridiculous:
4.065,- € @ Calumet in Germany, body only.
If that's the MRSP and not a first adopter premium we'll have a 27 % price rise over the Mark III (MRSP 3.199,-).
But I don't see any 27 % rise in functionality (don't come with 36 % more MP : ).

So if I'll spend my money in Canon products in the near future it'll be for lenses, if any.


----------



## Refurb7 (Aug 25, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> 3 hours before dpreview puts the camera down as the fail of the year and does a shoutout to sony.. 8)



It seems that every time he blows a wedding photo, it is the camera's fault. It's never his fault. Always the camera that did something wrong or had some deficiency that a Sony would (in theory) have addressed.


----------



## tpatana (Aug 25, 2016)

Refurb7 said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > 3 hours before dpreview puts the camera down as the fail of the year and does a shoutout to sony.. 8)
> ...



Wasn't all the pictures on the "conclusions" page taken with 5D3??


----------



## Sporgon (Aug 25, 2016)

tpatana said:


> Refurb7 said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



Yes. Just noticed the same thing ???


----------



## tpatana (Aug 25, 2016)

Sporgon said:


> tpatana said:
> 
> 
> > Refurb7 said:
> ...



"And we conclude that the pictures look exactly same as with 5D3, and you shouldn't buy 5D4. Buy Sony instead. Or Nikon."


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 25, 2016)

Sporgon said:


> Good to see the CR influence in the DPR hands on review: Rishi is now referring to AI Servo ! ( but says its still not that good  )



Wouldn't you say there is quite a tonal change in this review. I think we have gotten through to Rishi to some extent. Overall a reasonable early review, I'd say.

Jack


----------



## nickvera (Aug 25, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> nickvera said:
> 
> 
> > 1.74x crop for 4k. MJPG files. LOL I'm out. I'll continue to use gorgeous canon lenses like my 85mm 1.2L II, but I'm switching to Sony bodies. That was a dumb and forceful mistake to go against the videographer market. That market doesn't care much for the C series. I would rather rent an Alexa Mini.
> ...



only if there are pieces of truffles! I don't like to settle ;D


----------



## nickvera (Aug 25, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> adhocphotographer said:
> 
> 
> > nickvera said:
> ...



Agreed. Though I still mostly shoot on the 1V and Pentax 67II


----------



## 9VIII (Aug 25, 2016)

Dual Pixel Raw could either be incredibly exciting or incredibly disappointing, unfortunately we won't know which until actual reviews hit.


----------



## .jan (Aug 25, 2016)

saveyourmoment said:


> The price here in germany is ridiculous!!!


+1

Hope the price will drop substantially early next year though, a 4200€ kit would be nice to have next spring and I could definitely see myself going for it.


----------



## d (Aug 25, 2016)

Roo said:


> $5699 rrp in Oz  now off my shopping list for now



+1

About $1000 more than I'm willing to pay.


----------



## davidj (Aug 25, 2016)

Dual pixel raw won't allow vast changes to focus, but should be useful.

From https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcQ9MSRRvn4

Edit: This shows the difference between the default focus and a maximum focus shift in one direction, so it's effectively half the range that is provided.


----------



## h1234 (Aug 25, 2016)

Maximilian said:


> That's just a ridiculous price policy : : :
> 
> Even more ridiculous:
> 4.065,- € @ Calumet in Germany, body only.


My first reaction to this was "Die wollen mich wohl verarschen?"
Even if you add 19% German sales tax you end up mathematically at 3,695 €.
What the heck is that additional ~365€ justified by? Translation of camera menu and manual to German, yeah sure...


----------



## bitm2007 (Aug 25, 2016)

> The price here in germany is ridiculous!!!



Same in the UK, £3599 ($4750) that's £600 ($792) more than a 5DS. I wasn't expecting it to be that high even after Brexit.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 25, 2016)

Seems I don't get my permanently illuminated focus points.

Jack


----------



## pwp (Aug 25, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> nickvera said:
> 
> 
> > 1.74x crop for 4k. MJPG files. LOL I'm out. I'll continue to use gorgeous canon lenses like my 85mm 1.2L II, but I'm switching to Sony bodies. That was a dumb and forceful mistake to go against the videographer market. That market doesn't care much for the C series. I would rather rent an Alexa Mini.
> ...



Ha ha!! Make it dry... +1

-pw


----------



## Famateur (Aug 25, 2016)

Disclaimers notwithstanding, the Dual Pixel RAW teaser and brief demo videos have me just a wee bit giddy. Now I'm thinking about the portraits over the years that I couldn't print large because focus was just slightly off* on the eyes. This feature might have saved a few of those...

_* I don't care how good one's technique is -- human subjects move! At large apertures, even skilled photographers are bound to have some shots with focus just in front of or behind the eye. With my luck, it happens on the shot with the beautifully natural smile, perfect expression, great composition, etc, where the only flaw is the missed focus... (face-palm)._


----------



## pwp (Aug 25, 2016)

Jack Douglas said:


> Seems I don't get my permanently illuminated focus points.
> 
> Jack


I'm with you there Jack. Darn, that 1DXII is looking better by the minute.

-pw


----------



## M_S (Aug 25, 2016)

Pompo said:


> You are exactly right! All these "Explorers of Light" and ANYONE that gets anything from Canon or ANY brand in advance, are not to be trusted.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That goes for everybody out there who gets stuff for free. I don't give a s*** about their opinions on stuff they didn't get themselfes but was given to them for free and to keep.


----------



## Pebbles (Aug 25, 2016)

So basically, a slight improvement in stills, but not enough to catch the competition and a video mode that will be completely crippled unless Magic Lantern work some serious voodoo.


----------



## M_S (Aug 25, 2016)

Still some things unclear to me: 
* Does it have a clean HDMI output, even in 4K?
* Spot metering linked to AF ?
* Real world reviews?
* Menu system of the WiFi and GPs. Is it fiddely or workable?


----------



## niels123 (Aug 25, 2016)

The price in NL is ridiculous!

"only 4129 euros!" (which is 4660 USD...)


----------



## fotografnunta (Aug 25, 2016)

It's kinda expensive, but still I want it and I'll have it


----------



## wockawocka (Aug 25, 2016)

Screw it I just ordered two.

£3599 = £2999 after VAT is removed. Sell my 5DSr's for around 2k and that's a 1k per body upgrade.

The maths is sound on that front for cleaner shadows, higher FPS and cameras that aren't two years old.


----------



## sanj (Aug 25, 2016)

wockawocka said:


> Screw it I just ordered two.
> 
> £3599 = £2999 after VAT is removed. Sell my 5DSr's for around 2k and that's a 1k per body upgrade.
> 
> The maths is sound on that front for cleaner shadows, higher FPS and cameras that aren't two years old.



Why do you prefer this over the 5dsr pls?


----------



## hne (Aug 25, 2016)

bitm2007 said:


> > The price here in germany is ridiculous!!!
> 
> 
> 
> Same in the UK, £3599 ($4750) that's £600 ($792) more than a 5DS. I wasn't expecting it to be that high even after Brexit.



That price difference could totally justify the cost of a return trip to Portland, Oregon. Just checked: return flight plus a nice hotel thu-sun is about $950 the weekend after availability which would mean $300 to spare on food and drinks (since Oregon has no sales tax). Though... it probably won't be available over the counter just yet for another few weeks.


----------



## wockawocka (Aug 25, 2016)

sanj said:


> wockawocka said:
> 
> 
> > Screw it I just ordered two.
> ...



I have three 5DSr's, so won't give up on the high mp completely. But, I shoot weddings, the camera will be faster, fire off more FPS, will have more sensor latitude, will have a newer and more advanced AF system and big bump in ISO.

The rest of the features for me are filler. There are some serious shortcomings with the 5D4 body for me (no tilt screen being one) but overall the upgrade price is well worth it.

I do feel as well that 50mp is overkill for weddings and 30 is enough of a jump from 22.

It's worth bearing in mind I shoot 50 weddings a year so for me the amount of money involved isn't something to get over as much compared to someone who does maybe 20 weddings ayear, has another job and isn't VAT registered. If I was like that I wouldn't buy it.

It's a business expense for me and the body is the most integral mechanical part of my business, other than the computer and lenses. I just really hope Canon start treating this as their flagship camera along with the 1DX because they seriously cripple the custom functions vs the 1DX.


----------



## E (Aug 25, 2016)

The specs are out, now hope is dead, and all these years I waited for nothing.

And for all you video bashers out there, read this: "Canon's commitment to imaging excellence is the soul of the EOS 5D Mark IV. Wedding and portrait photographers, nature and landscape shooters, as well as creative *videographers will appreciate* the brilliance and power that the EOS 5D Mark IV delivers."

Why not 120fps 1080p? Canon left this out on purpose.


----------



## blackcat (Aug 25, 2016)

Just seen the Australian price for the body only - a whopping $5699!!! This is a lot more than I paid for my 5DSR. My 5D3 only cost me A$3000. I had expected the new 5DIV to be no more than A$4000. I now think the !DXII is looking all the more attractive.


----------



## nicksotgiu (Aug 25, 2016)

I really don't want to sound bitter, but the only thing I'm excited for right now is that 16-35mm f2.8  :'(


----------



## arthurbikemad (Aug 25, 2016)

Just don't look at the price of the 16-35!


----------



## wockawocka (Aug 25, 2016)

I really want to know what the shot buffer is....it's the only thing missing.

No user manual yet?


----------



## davidj (Aug 25, 2016)

blackcat said:


> Just seen the Australian price for the body only - a whopping $5699!!! This is a lot more than I paid for my 5DSR. My 5D3 only cost me A$3000. I had expected the new 5DIV to be no more than A$4000. I now think the !DXII is looking all the more attractive.



Michaels is selling it for $4999, which is a bit less than the US price + 10% GST. It's expensive, but it always was going to be at launch. Anyway, I'm sure Canon won't mind if you get a 1D X II instead.


----------



## vscd (Aug 25, 2016)

h1234 said:


> Maximilian said:
> 
> 
> > That's just a ridiculous price policy : : :
> ...



Maybe because you have 2 years of warranty in germany, instead of 1.


----------



## Mikehit (Aug 25, 2016)

E said:


> Why not 120fps 1080p? Canon left this out on purpose.



If by 'on purpose' you mean 'perfectly sound engineering reasons' then probably yes.


----------



## miz (Aug 25, 2016)

4K crop
LOOOOOOL

Why should I buy this camera rather than twice cheaper D750? Can anyone explain?


----------



## bitm2007 (Aug 25, 2016)

hne said:


> bitm2007 said:
> 
> 
> > > The price here in germany is ridiculous!!!
> ...



$3499
£3599 ($4750)

I trip to the states is one of the options i'm considering, i've also noticed that B&H ship to the UK for £2693.57, I assume that VAT (20%) and Import Duty @ 2.5% would be applicable, total price £3313. The trip to the states does sound tempting however.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 25, 2016)

miz said:


> 4K crop
> LOOOOOOL
> 
> Why should I buy this camera rather than twice cheaper D750? Can anyone explain?



Clearly you should by the D750, it's a winner and you'll be happy as a lark and have money for other things, it's really that simple. Just buy it!

Jack


----------



## 9VIII (Aug 25, 2016)

miz said:


> 4K crop
> LOOOOOOL
> 
> Why should I buy this camera rather than twice cheaper D750? Can anyone explain?



At this point the D750 is wholly inferior.
Maybe that's not inferior by as wide a margin as the price difference, but these are premium products, and this is the launch price of the 5D4, E-bay will knock nearly a grand off that total.

But really this is comparing different classes of products, just wait for the 6DMkII.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 25, 2016)

bitm2007 said:


> hne said:
> 
> 
> > bitm2007 said:
> ...



If my sleepy eyed conversion is right, it's actually cheaper in Canada.

Jack


----------



## davidj (Aug 25, 2016)

wockawocka said:


> I really want to know what the shot buffer is....it's the only thing missing.
> 
> No user manual yet?



Google Translate of: http://cweb.canon.jp/eos/lineup/5dmk4/spec.html

"RAW: about 17 sheets (about 21 pieces)"

I'm not sure what the sheets/pieces difference is, but for the 5D III it says "RAW: about 13 sheets (about 18 sheets)", and I think that camera was meant to be able to shoot 18 shots before the buffer ran out.


----------



## msatter (Aug 25, 2016)

“I have owned every camera in the 5D line, so the new EOS 5D Mark IV feels like an old friend in my hands, only better” ....and a lot more expensieve. Better not take that friend to bar because you can't pay the drinks at the end of the evening.


----------



## Deleted member 378221 (Aug 25, 2016)

E said:


> The specs are out, now hope is dead, and all these years I waited for nothing.
> [...]
> Why not 120fps 1080p? Canon left this out on purpose.


Well, everything they left out they probably left out on purpose. It's not like some engineer sitting at Canon is reading the release right now and thinking "sh!t, we forgot to add 120fps, hold the presses!".

It's about market segmentation. Canon decided "pro video" is more valuable than stills photography and decided to milk it by pushing people to the 1DX2 oder whatever 1DC there might be. You can hate the desicion, but you can't demand Canon put in all kinds of video features that would cannibalize their own proper video line. Budget for Professional Videographers is different than for stills, I also doubt many people using these cams professionally would fret much over 1K here or there, keeping in mind how much revenue you can genereate from these cameras.
After the DSLR Video revolution people expect that they get everything that makes up a "pro capable" camera in those very affordable models. I would love that, but it's not how the world works.

I also don't mind the 1.64 Crop in 4K, it should even be possible to throw on an Sigma 18-35/1.8 for APS-C since it doesnt protrude into the body. Image circle should be fine and it's wide-angle enough. Would I love for it to have a mode available without crop? Sure. But that would eat battery like crazy and require more heat dissipation.
Canon took the very easy way out by just using native pixels and using a low compression codec. I bet otherwise we wouldn't have seen 4K in the current generation at all.

Yes, Focus peaking and Zebras would be nice, but I'm counting on the Magic Lantern guys to have their way into this cam after about a year from now. There's going to be lots of interest and demand fpr this cam.

Would I prefer more features and even better hardware at a lower price? you bet. But this camera will be bought in droves by people depending on their camera daily or at least multiple times a week. Maybe some videographers have to look elsewhere or wait a year for Magic Lantern, as you had to do on the 5D3 anyways.


----------



## M_S (Aug 25, 2016)

nicksotgiu said:


> I really don't want to sound bitter, but the only thing I'm excited for right now is that 16-35mm f2.8  :'(



 My thoughts as well. Thought about buying the Mark IV on release but now I wait. Price is way to high and my Mark III does a good job. I hoped for more resolution (that the new body delivers), und big jump in video (videospecs on the Mark iV is a big let down so far, other camp offers more in that area).


----------



## arthurbikemad (Aug 25, 2016)

davidj said:


> wockawocka said:
> 
> 
> > I really want to know what the shot buffer is....it's the only thing missing.
> ...



Wonder how may DP-RAW's, I guessed 6 some time back. To SD or CF?


----------



## mikekx102 (Aug 25, 2016)

CF slot and UHS-I limited SD card slot HAS to be because they don't want Magic Lantern hacking the camera and producing amazing 4K raw that pulls people from their Cine line. There's no other reason. UHS-I transfer limit is like 45MB/s, as opposed to the latest UHS-II SD Cards that have extended write speeds of 250MB/s. You can also use UHS-I cards in a UHS-II device. Canon have limited the card speeds of this camera to 2011.

I think I get why they did it, but it is annoying and is responsible for the small buffer in photo mode.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 25, 2016)

Full specs:

https://downloads.canon.com/nw/camera/products/eos/5d-mark-iv/specifications/eos-5d-mark-iv-specifications-chart.pdf


----------



## KiagiJ (Aug 25, 2016)

wockawocka said:


> I really want to know what the shot buffer is....it's the only thing missing.
> 
> No user manual yet?



Jared Polin talks details on how bad it is here... https://youtu.be/j0ou39qKoWM


----------



## wockawocka (Aug 25, 2016)

21 shots full raw, so the reality will be more like 26 as the buffer unloads.

Which isn't bad.


----------



## wockawocka (Aug 25, 2016)

wockawocka said:


> 21 shots full raw, so the reality will be more like 26 as the buffer unloads.
> 
> Which isn't bad.



I got shot to all hell expecting Cfast.....

Anyhoo, weddings don't truly need 7fps (although it's nice to have), so I guess you could easily extend the continuous shooting by limiting the FPS to 5 shots and possibly go up to 30+ frames continuous.


----------



## M_S (Aug 25, 2016)

KiagiJ said:


> wockawocka said:
> 
> 
> > I really want to know what the shot buffer is....it's the only thing missing.
> ...



Ok one thing answered:
no 4K out over HDMI.....WTF.....

Adding to that the old card tech (UHS I ????? )....
Then the buffer size? Really?
I was running into problems the other day when shooting on both cards on my Mark 3. So this will be the same on the Mark 4???
Oh man.....I am really on the edge of trying out a Sony now....


----------



## Drum (Aug 25, 2016)

Just been quoted €4299, by Conns Cameras in Ireland which I'm sorry but this feels like a complete CON. I was going to pre order but this just put a pause on that. I had the €4000 saved but I feel this is just "extracting the urine" compared to U.S. price of $3499 plus sales tax.


----------



## wockawocka (Aug 25, 2016)

M_S said:


> KiagiJ said:
> 
> 
> > wockawocka said:
> ...



If it's anything like the 5DSr no it won't be the same as the 5D3 - The SD slot was a lot slower on the 3, the Sr though is about the same write speed for both cards.


----------



## wockawocka (Aug 25, 2016)

Drum said:


> Just been quoted €4299, by Conns Cameras in Ireland which I'm sorry but this feels like a complete CON. I was going to pre order but this just put a pause on that. I had the €4000 saved but I feel this is just "extracting the urine" compared to U.S. price of $3499 plus sales tax.



$3499 + 9% sales tax = 3377 Euros
E4299 - 11% sales tax difference = 3826 Euros

So a 450 Euro difference which mirrors the £300 extra markup in the UK too.

I guess they can justify it by saying the USA is a bigger market vs several smaller countries each with their own specific amount of administation costs to deal with.


----------



## wildwalker (Aug 25, 2016)

What a rip off. $3500 usd or £3600 gbp, what exchange rate are they using? $3500 usd is only about £2700!!!!

Won't be buying one now.


----------



## jeffa4444 (Aug 25, 2016)

At £ 3599 body only I'm out. It maybe a great camera but is it really worth £ 700 more than a 5DSr? 
This also means the 6D MKII will get a serious hike, Canon will be in danger of pricing themselves out of the market.


----------



## pedro (Aug 25, 2016)

wildwalker said:


> What a rip off. $3500 usd or £3600 gbp, what exchange rate are they using? $3500 usd is only about £2700!!!!
> 
> Won't be buying one now.



That's annoying. But hey, I am a hobbyist photographer, and the 6D is way enough camera for me.
I expect the 6DII in the USD 2500 price range and maybe € 2900 in Europe according to this rip off.

Well, forget it. Next up I could fall for an oldish Sony A7sII once its new itiration is out. 12 MP and good lowlight specs for my nightscape stuff.


----------



## YuengLinger (Aug 25, 2016)

WTH would have been so hard about boosting the flash sync speed to 1/250th?


----------



## procentje20 (Aug 25, 2016)

It looks like a nice evolutionary upgrade to me. I don't fully understand all the new features. But once some of you have received yours. I'm sure I'll read all about it.

I clicked trough the product page on usa.canon.com and noticed the "whats in the box" page list a "Cable Protector" is that the weird plastic thing in the picture?

Why would I want that? is that a studio gizmo?


----------



## Drum (Aug 25, 2016)

At €3700 or even 3800 I would have pre ordered this when it gets to €4299 it has just made me stop and think.
the shop told me they source them through the UK and the RRP is €4799 like they are doing me a favour at 4299!!
We are planning a trip to New York next year I think if I buy one I will be waiting till then. Do retailers not realise that people can see the prices in other countries via the internet?


----------



## AlanF (Aug 25, 2016)

dilbert said:


> miz said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Why should we ignore this post? Because it has the name "Dilbert" on it.


----------



## rfdesigner (Aug 25, 2016)

GPS:

"Positioning Modes


Mode 1: Camera continues to receive GPS signals at regular intervals when power is switched off

Mode 2: GPS is switched off when power is switched off"

How off is off?.. switched off or auto-powered-down?.. I'd still want GPS to be able to be turned off when the power switch is on but it's auto-powered-down between uses.

(On my 6D I want GPS on/off included in the custom shooting modes. in my "landscape" mode I want it on, in my "people" mode which is where it usually lives, I want it off.)


----------



## YuengLinger (Aug 25, 2016)

rfdesigner said:


> GPS:
> 
> "Positioning Modes
> 
> ...



Canon has an absolute right to know where you are using their product at all times. After all, you don't OWN any of the technology in the camera, you are just paying for the license to use it.


----------



## wockawocka (Aug 25, 2016)

GPS can be used for setting the clock across several bodies too right?


----------



## sigh (Aug 25, 2016)

wockawocka said:


> GPS can be used for setting the clock across several bodies too right?



No, that's a feature reserved to the 1 series line.


----------



## AlanF (Aug 25, 2016)

wildwalker said:


> What a rip off. $3500 usd or £3600 gbp, what exchange rate are they using? $3500 usd is only about £2700!!!!
> 
> Won't be buying one now.



There is 20% VAT on importing cameras so that $3500 equates to 1.2*£2700 = £3240. US citizens have to pay sales tax in their own state, which brings up the price further. The Americans can correct me on this but I was led to believe that they should declare out-of-state purchases on their tax returns and pay then?


----------



## fox40phil (Aug 25, 2016)

I thought 3700€ was high...for the rumored price. But now its 4065€ in Germany.... what the ******. Have to stay with my 5DII & 7D for 2 years again I think :'(


----------



## xps (Aug 25, 2016)

Maximilian said:


> davidj said:
> 
> 
> > Body only: $3,499
> ...


Yesterday, I thought an retailer advertisement of 3900€ is untrustworthy. :'( :'( :'( Now, the early adopters-rebate is over....

What the hell is Canon thinking, bis this big Price gap. You are right, for this nearly 30% Price increase, I´d like to get a little bit more for my money.


----------



## xps (Aug 25, 2016)

pedro said:


> wildwalker said:
> 
> 
> > What a rip off. $3500 usd or £3600 gbp, what exchange rate are they using? $3500 usd is only about £2700!!!!
> ...



6DII: 2500$ means 3250€!! (Correct the factor to 1.3x)
Maybe we should wait for the 7RIII .... Use this cam with an converter. 
Same Price as 5DIV, more Resolution, more DR... (and maybe an better AF-Function)

(I´m sorry, but I´ve never thought that I could be able to think about buying an Sony pro cam. But this Canon pricing....)


----------



## Diko (Aug 25, 2016)

M_S said:


> Pompo said:
> 
> 
> > You are exactly right! All these "Explorers of Light" and ANYONE that gets anything from Canon or ANY brand in advance, are not to be trusted.
> ...


 I really DO hope that CANON are reading this thread. 

And this early adopters price coming close the price of an old flagship body..!?!

What bothers me is that 5D3 was released April 2012, no? Back then one could hope to get good cut in price for *Black Friday 2012*.

I wonder now with *Black Friday 2016* so close would there be substantial cut in price?

And what about if I order the camera from US grey market and deliver it to LONDON? I thought UK is freed from VAT and import taxes from US and China?


----------



## GuyF (Aug 25, 2016)

procentje20 said:


> Why would I want that? is that a studio gizmo?



It's a cable strain-relief tool. You screw it into the side of the camera and feed the cables through it into the sockets, this helps ensure the cables aren't pulled out by their own weight.


----------



## Ladislav (Aug 25, 2016)

Stop complaining about price in EU/UK. The same happens with every product but with more expensive products, difference is more visible. You can't just use conversion from dollar to euro / pound and expect to have the final price in your country. That is not how it works. VAT and duty are obvious additions but the biggest jump is caused by local regulations, customer protection and warranty. That is why we pay more (I live in UK). If you don't like it, wait for grey market. 

Anyway it is very expensive - I'm bit afraid how much will 6DII cost because that is more in my area of interest.


----------



## M_S (Aug 25, 2016)

Ladislav said:


> Stop complaining about price in EU/UK.


Simply no. If one has been looking forward to this release and is then let down by features and, above all, the high price point, that one has all the right to complain about it. This is no praise all Canon forum, its a forum of multiple opinions.


----------



## Sindre Ellingsen (Aug 25, 2016)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLa0T5qHtw-14P2rzVLL5CXJ1PPmwDW8LD&v=sa9OVcKdpsE

Here is a live show, where a Swedish photographer is talking about his experience with 5d4


----------



## wockawocka (Aug 25, 2016)

Eagerly awaiting the user manual being online with delivery so near.....

Interested to see what the 17 custom functions are and how much control we've been given.


----------



## Mikehit (Aug 25, 2016)

M_S said:


> Ladislav said:
> 
> 
> > Stop complaining about price in EU/UK.
> ...



If you are let down by features, then surely price is irrelevant.

And if you are going to complain about price, why not ask why it is more than 2,500?


----------



## tron (Aug 25, 2016)

Ladislav said:


> Stop complaining about price in EU/UK. The same happens with every product but with more expensive products, difference is more visible. You can't just use conversion from dollar to euro / pound and expect to have the final price in your country. That is not how it works. VAT and duty are obvious additions but the biggest jump is caused by local regulations, customer protection and warranty. That is why we pay more (I live in UK). If you don't like it, wait for grey market.
> 
> Anyway it is very expensive - I'm bit afraid how much will 6DII cost because that is more in my area of interest.


You ask us to stop complaining about price. At the same time you admit it is very expensive. Isn't that a complaint?


----------



## Mikehit (Aug 25, 2016)

tron said:


> Ladislav said:
> 
> 
> > Stop complaining about price in EU/UK. The same happens with every product but with more expensive products, difference is more visible. You can't just use conversion from dollar to euro / pound and expect to have the final price in your country. That is not how it works. VAT and duty are obvious additions but the biggest jump is caused by local regulations, customer protection and warranty. That is why we pay more (I live in UK). If you don't like it, wait for grey market.
> ...



I'm not sure if people are complaining about the price as such or their assumed price differential between EU/UK and US.


----------



## xps (Aug 25, 2016)

M_S said:


> Ladislav said:
> 
> 
> > Stop complaining about price in EU/UK.
> ...


+1
Vat& Taxes -> 20% difference. But the Delta is up to 30%


----------



## M_S (Aug 25, 2016)

Dual pixel raw explained:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcQ9MSRRvn4

Seems to me, that the area you can adjust is very very tiny.


----------



## George D. (Aug 25, 2016)

Euro 4,000+ body only. I see. Canon have experts in finance maybe they have in mind Euro will collapse and equivalence will fall under the USD. I'm converting my savings to USD! :

As for the 5D Mk. IV, maybe on a business trip to US... 

I think the grey market is celebrating with the Mk. IV announcement.


----------



## Mikehit (Aug 25, 2016)

M_S said:


> Dual pixel raw explained:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcQ9MSRRvn4
> 
> Seems to me, that the area you can adjust is very very tiny.



I didn't expect anything else


----------



## davidj (Aug 25, 2016)

Mikehit said:


> M_S said:
> 
> 
> > Dual pixel raw explained:
> ...



Exactly. I'm more enthusiastic about it now than I was when we were discussing the rumour. It's not Lytro, but it will fix those shots where the eyelashes are in focus and the eye isn't, and that's good enough for me.


----------



## E (Aug 25, 2016)

Mikehit said:


> E said:
> 
> 
> > Why not 120fps 1080p? Canon left this out on purpose.
> ...



No, I mean that they crippled it on purpose. Are you enjoying bashing people who also use the video function?



Loibisch said:


> E said:
> 
> 
> > The specs are out, now hope is dead, and all these years I waited for nothing.
> ...



But 1D X Mark II is missing out on things 1D C could do, for example C-log. And test sites say the 1080p is not as good in X Mark II as it was in 1D C.

I love Canon photo quality. I want a stills camera that can shoot video as good as 1 DC, but with slow motion. I like the less weight/less price of the 5D series, and what I ask for would have been possible. An 1D C Mark II could have been a heavier and costlier, but OK option - if it were available.

And I have not complained about anything else than that Mark IV lacks 100/120fps.


----------



## George D. (Aug 25, 2016)

Price aside, I find this "dual pixel Raw" a workflow nightmare. You have to decide whether "Left-side" bokeh is better than "Right-side" ? That's politics. Bokeh is an abstract anyway.


----------



## Deleted member 378221 (Aug 25, 2016)

E said:


> But 1D X Mark II is missing out on things 1D C could do, for example C-log. And test sites say the 1080p is not as good in X Mark II as it was in 1D C.
> [...]
> And I have not complained about anything else than that Mark IV lacks 100/120fps.


Ah yes, you might have done so in your original post. but as with all video shooters they (understandably) complain about missing video-centric features. Now you start mourning the missing c-log. I get it, really do. But the 5D Mark IV ist foremost not a video camera for professionals. The only reason DSLRs are even in that "video mess" is the look that can be achieved through readily available lenses. That lead to many "pros" to start shooting on DSLRs instead of "professional equipment". Now everyone demands the highest video quality on every new body, and while this certainly would be nice, this is not the market situation we live in. Or at least Canon decided this would be two different markets with two different pricepoints. Yes, the 1DX2 lacks c-log, it is still only a video camera second to stills.
Yes, I would have loved to have the perfect video package alongside perfect stills. But no, this is apparently not possible without some compromise.



> I love Canon photo quality. I want a stills camera that can shoot video as good as 1 DC, but with slow motion. I like the less weight/less price of the 5D series, and what I ask for would have been possible. An 1D C Mark II could have been a heavier and costlier, but OK option - if it were available.


I'm sure there will be something video-centric around soon. It's just not this camera. But then again, I never expected it to have all those video features previously only provided by Magic Lantern. We ARE talking about canon here.


----------



## bitm2007 (Aug 25, 2016)

Ladislav said:


> Stop complaining about price in EU/UK. The same happens with every product but with more expensive products, difference is more visible. You can't just use conversion from dollar to euro / pound and expect to have the final price in your country. That is not how it works. VAT and duty are obvious additions but the biggest jump is caused by local regulations, customer protection and warranty. That is why we pay more (I live in UK). If you don't like it, wait for grey market.
> 
> Anyway it is very expensive - I'm bit afraid how much will 6DII cost because that is more in my area of interest.



The pounds is much weaker now than prior to the Brexit Vote, 1.58 £ to the yen on 23rd June, 1.33 now. That's almost a £600 difference on a product that retails at £3599 today.


----------



## pdirestajr (Aug 25, 2016)

Preordered!........ That wifi thing for my 7D mkII


----------



## Deleted member 378221 (Aug 25, 2016)

George D. said:


> Price aside, I find this "dual pixel Raw" a workflow nightmare. You have to decide whether "Left-side" bokeh is better than "Right-side" ? That's politics. Bokeh is an abstract anyway.


Then don't. 
I almost never shoots brackets, but it's still nice the option exists for the few times I need it.

If it turns out Dual Pixel RAW can save my focus so that in very demanding situations I only have to shoot 5 instead of 20 frames to get a keeper, I don't mind the additional workload for the occasional pic. I'm not looking to tweak bokeh, though some people will. I'm not looking for deghosting, though it might prove valuable with some nightscape city shots.

Point is: nobody loses a thing, and I suppose the technology is here to stay. I only wish for third party converters to pick this up so I don't have to break workflow. But in the meantime if I must, so be it. I can always keep on working without except for the few most critical shots.


----------



## Mikehit (Aug 25, 2016)

E said:


> No, I mean that they crippled it on purpose. Are you enjoying bashing people who also use the video function?



Not at all.
The 1Dx2 has video but not as good as you want it. The 1DC has a better video functionality than the 1Dx but is even more expensive
It is just that people seem to be complaining that they have not got an improved a stills camera with as good video as the 1DC in a package for half the price. 

Its the age old business formula: cost-functions-quality. Pick 2 from 3.


----------



## douglaurent (Aug 25, 2016)

1.74x crop factor in 4K mode and the 5D4 still does not allow to use Canon APS-C crop lenses?

Aside from the Dualpixel option, for filmmakers this camera is a spec nightmare and outperformed in many ways already: pretty disappointing, Canon!

Filmmakers will have more fun buying THREE GH4 plus Canon Speedboosters.


----------



## H. Jones (Aug 25, 2016)

Really nit-picky, but as a photojournalist that just bought a 1DX mark II and is loving it..

Canon really had to go and put IPTC metadata in the 5D IV and not the 1DX mark II? Like, they couldn't put that in their $6,000 news camera? 

I have my own workflow and don't particularly need to change it, but it would have been nice to be able to embed more data in-camera. I really hope they put this in a firmware update to the 1DX mark II.


----------



## Tripod (Aug 25, 2016)

Thanks Canon UK, for screwing us Irish Photographers one more time!

5D4 price
Ireland €4899 https://store.canon.ie/canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-body/1483C026/
UK £3629 = €4111.72 https://store.canon.co.uk/canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-body/1483C026/
Germany €4065 https://store.canon.de/canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-gehaeuse/1483C026/

You must think we're bloody stupid!


----------



## suburbia (Aug 25, 2016)

don't quite get the price complaints its the same price as the MkIII was when it was first released. The price dropped after 6 months.


----------



## K (Aug 25, 2016)

Chaitanya said:


> Skipping it, waiting for 6D replacement as long as it comes with Dual SD slots(since its dumbass Canon) keeping expectations low.




A 24 or 28MP 6D2 is going to be fantastic. But I'm 100% agreed with you, unless it has dual SD, I'm not interested.

Knowing Canon, it will be a single slot to deter anyone from having any thoughts of using it for money-making purposes. Very short-sighted, as there are many out there who value data protection outside of business purposes.

But anyway, this is the 5D4 thread, we'll discuss the 6D2 in new threads which will be coming soon....


----------



## E (Aug 25, 2016)

Loibisch said:


> E said:
> 
> 
> > But 1D X Mark II is missing out on things 1D C could do, for example C-log. And test sites say the 1080p is not as good in X Mark II as it was in 1D C.
> ...



I'm only responding to you referring me to the 1D X Mark II instead of the 5D Mark IV. It's not really comfortable buying an even more expensive and heavy camera, that is crippled (on purpose) in comparison to Canon's 2012 model.

1D C and 1D X were announced the same quarter 2012, and Canons film consultant did seem to think that the 1D X Mark II replaced them both in a good way, in Canons introduction video for the 1D X Mark II.

I don't really get why so many here does not think it is legit to complain, when Canon deliberately cripples its products? The word "video" seems to be really provocative. A Canon camera can do both, in a beautiful stills camera body. Canon has the technology, and the most beautiful color space.

I only wanted 100/120fps in Mark IV. I wasn't demanding the most perfect camera in every aspect ever made, suited to make Hollywood blockbusters. I work with film, and am most familiar with the difference between pixel count and quality.


----------



## Maiaibing (Aug 25, 2016)

"Canon tells us the chief requests of 5D owners were more dynamic range and resolution, as well as better AF accuracy and speed."

Wow - Canon reacted to actual user complaints about AF, DR and MPIX! 

Cannot wait for the deluge of hate and attacks Canon will get at this forum for pointing to those three areas of key improvement from the 5DIII. 

Let the floodgates open!!
:-X


----------



## bitm2007 (Aug 25, 2016)

dilbert said:


> AlanF said:
> 
> 
> > wildwalker said:
> ...



Post Brexit exchange rates don't helps us in the UK either, current rate 1.33 £ to the yen compared to 1.58 on June 23rd.


----------



## K (Aug 25, 2016)

Tripod said:


> Thanks Canon UK, for screwing us Irish Photographers one more time!
> 
> 5D4 price
> Ireland €4899 https://store.canon.ie/canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-body/1483C026/
> ...




If it is true that your national laws require manufacturers to warranty their products for 6 years, then that is simply Canon building a full shutter repair / main board replacement cost into each and every camera sold. 

Expect Canon to eat those costs?

Nothing is free.

Thank the government.


----------



## GuyF (Aug 25, 2016)

suburbia said:


> don't quite get the price complaints its the same price as the MkIII was when it was first released. The price dropped after 6 months.



Not exactly. In the UK it's the same price as the 5D3 kit was i.e. _including_ the 24-105mm.


----------



## E (Aug 25, 2016)

Mikehit said:


> E said:
> 
> 
> > No, I mean that they crippled it on purpose. Are you enjoying bashing people who also use the video function?
> ...



Then why should I be happy with 2 out of 3, when Canon cripples their products on purpose?

1D C lacks slow motion. I would have purchased a Mark II with slow motion, if there were one.


----------



## gbaboukos (Aug 25, 2016)

Does anyone know about the FTP feature?is it possible to send ftp directly from the camera if i have wifi connection?


----------



## K (Aug 25, 2016)

Maiaibing said:


> "Canon tells us the chief requests of 5D owners were more dynamic range and resolution, as well as better AF accuracy and speed."
> 
> Wow - Canon reacted to actual user complaints about AF, DR and MPIX!
> 
> ...




Resolution - check.

AF - check (from the specs, it has to be better)

Dynamic Range - yet to be determined. Although, being a 4 years newer sensor - it will surely be better. The question is, is it competitive with the industry?


I think Canon did a fine job of upgrades for the 5D4.


----------



## Deleted member 378221 (Aug 25, 2016)

E said:


> I'm only responding to you referring me to the 1D X Mark II instead of the 5D Mark IV. It's not really comfortable buying an even more expensive and heavy camera, that is crippled (on purpose) in comparison to Canon's 2012 model.


Ah, but that is exactly what the video market looks like. To "get it all" on a professional level you have to buy a professional video camera, and canon makes sure you'll have to do that. Yes, nobody likes it and a lot of people thought the next wave of DSLRs would do away with the need for a dedicated video camera altogether. Alas, you "only" want 120 fps, someone else "only" wants c-log and a third person "only" wants 4K HDMI out. Well, if you try to make everyone happy then gues what, you have a full-fledged video camera and suddenly a lot less people see the need to buy a dedicated video camera anymore.
I'm not saying what Canon did here was great for the consumer, I'm only saing I never expected this camera to be the holy video cow.



> I don't really get why so many here does not think it is legit to complain, when Canon deliberately cripples its products? The word "video" seems to be really provocative.


Every manufacturer "deliberately" cripples their products. It's called setting a price point. Not sayin Canon couldn't have thrown the one or other bone here (how about a non-crop 4K mode with slightly lower quality due to pixel binning, probably too hardware intensive though). But I think people have to get used to the idea that DSLRs will not replace video-ventric cameras for a while, if only because manufacturers say so.
The first manufacturer to really break away from the group and "do it all" for a low pricepoint will be celebrated and will change the market forever. However, there is still no perfect, affordable alternative. And until there is you will see no such endeavor from Canon.


----------



## Eldar (Aug 25, 2016)

In the US it is $100 cheaper than a 5DSR. In Norway it is $1.000 more expensive. The camera looks OK, but the pricing is a f****** provocation. I'll pass!


----------



## sanj (Aug 25, 2016)

Not buying.


----------



## sanj (Aug 25, 2016)

Just ordered the 1dx2.


----------



## bitm2007 (Aug 25, 2016)

GuyF said:


> suburbia said:
> 
> 
> > don't quite get the price complaints its the same price as the MkIII was when it was first released. The price dropped after 6 months.
> ...



5D3 had a release price of £2999, 5D4 is £3599, a difference of £600, this isn't surprising as the post Brexit £ to yens exchange rates (1.58 on June 23, 1.33 now) almost accounts for this alone.


----------



## justaCanonuser (Aug 25, 2016)

douglaurent said:


> 1.74x crop factor in 4K mode and the 5D4 still does not allow to use Canon APS-C crop lenses?



Strange idea, why should anyone use EF-S lenses on a 5D4 in that single special case?! You'd need to carry more lenses or would have to stick all the time with the crop mode...

Overall I like the specs of the 5D4, in particular I appreciate WiFi and near field communication - why not in the 7D2, Canon? But I personally wouldn't need 30 MP often, and I am no videographer desperately crying for 8k video or other fat tyres to show off. Trained by many years of shooting slide film that needs proper exposure I can work around the 5D3's lack of base ISO DR and limited capability in lifting shadows. Too much contrast is nearly always a proof of bad light anyway. So I think I'll stick a while with my old 5D3 as long as it does well (125 k shutter actuations so far).


----------



## BeenThere (Aug 25, 2016)

I'm a still photographer with a Mkiii. I don't see a compelling reason to rush for the Mkiv.


----------



## GuyF (Aug 25, 2016)

bitm2007 said:


> 5D3 had a release price of £2999, 5D4 is £3599, a difference of £600, this isn't surprising as the post Brexit £ to yens exchange rates (1.58 on June 23, 1.33 now) almost accounts for this alone.



I'm aware of that but Suburbia didn't appear to be - they suggested the the price was the same. It isn't.


----------



## K (Aug 25, 2016)

*21 shot RAW buffer?*


Awful.


Should have been 28 at a minimum....


----------



## GuyF (Aug 25, 2016)

If I were a teenager I'd say, "OMG! OMG! Unboxing video!!!!! etc.", but I'm not, _cough, cough_

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=34iMO8I-4JY#t=21.891383


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

BeenThere said:


> I'm a still photographer with a Mkiii. I don't see a compelling reason to rush for the Mkiv.



Makes sense. Many people assume that the Canon's target market for any new model is owners of the immediately previous model it replaces...but that's an unwarranted assumption.


----------



## davidj (Aug 25, 2016)

justaCanonuser said:


> douglaurent said:
> 
> 
> > 1.74x crop factor in 4K mode and the 5D4 still does not allow to use Canon APS-C crop lenses?
> ...



A quite important factor in the 5D IV not supporting EF-S lenses is that EF-S lenses have extra glass that goes deeper inside the camera that the mirror of an EF camera can hit. At least, that's what I've read here before.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 25, 2016)

sanj said:


> Not buying.



Oh no I'm sure Canon will live to regret not being able to satisfy you.....................



sanj said:


> Just ordered the 1dx2.



And a home run for the 5D MkIV for Canon yet again.

They know us better than we know ourselves............


----------



## E (Aug 25, 2016)

Loibisch said:


> E said:
> 
> 
> > I'm only responding to you referring me to the 1D X Mark II instead of the 5D Mark IV. It's not really comfortable buying an even more expensive and heavy camera, that is crippled (on purpose) in comparison to Canon's 2012 model.
> ...



I don't seem to get through to you, and you seem to be answering a straw man.

You cut out this from my last answer:

"I wasn't demanding the most perfect camera in every aspect ever made, suited to make Hollywood blockbusters."

Still that is the opinion that you are defending Canon against here.

I wanted 100/120fps in Mark IV.

I would have been OK with a 1D C Mark II (or a non-crippled version of 1D X Mark II, obviously)

Canon could have done that, without destroying the market. 1 DC existed 2012. 1 DX Mark II exists (regarding slow motion), but Canon has (apparently) crippled the video quality in that one.

There is absolutely no reason to why Canon could not give us a reasonably capable camera with things they already have available in the market, other than the fact that this forum seems to hate people who use the video function that Canon added, and in the quotation I supplied earlier are _proud_ of.


----------



## IglooEater (Aug 25, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> BeenThere said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a still photographer with a Mkiii. I don't see a compelling reason to rush for the Mkiv.
> ...



Correct. That's a big assumption. For anyone coming from anything other than a 5D iii, 1DX, or 1DX II, it should be quite a decent upgrade.

I would rush to upgrade if I had the $. As it is I'm watching my local used 5D iii market like a hawk.


----------



## .jan (Aug 25, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> BeenThere said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a still photographer with a Mkiii. I don't see a compelling reason to rush for the Mkiv.
> ...


Exactly, especially with enthusiasts like myself won't jump on every new camera. That being said, my good old 7D will be retiring soon. And so will my Nikon full frame gear (awful ergonomics, really). 

I'm quite happy with what I'm looking at, spec wise. 8 fps would have been nicer, but that's about it with my complaints. Pricing may be a little odd, but that's gonna get a lot more reasonable soon. The 5Ds mrsp in Germany is 4065€, too, and you can get it for about 3400-3500€ now. The price dropped to this level within the first months after introduction. I expect the 5D IV to be around 3500€ early next year, which is exactly when I'm going to order mine.


----------



## George D. (Aug 25, 2016)

Loibisch said:


> George D. said:
> 
> 
> > Price aside, I find this "dual pixel Raw" a workflow nightmare. You have to decide whether "Left-side" bokeh is better than "Right-side" ? That's politics. Bokeh is an abstract anyway.
> ...



We'll see about this in practice. The notion you might have a better result drives you checking so. Particularly if you're using fast L glass where bokeh goes hand-in-hand.

Regardless, the 5D Mk. IV generally looks more of a success than a failure.


----------



## Deleted member 378221 (Aug 25, 2016)

E said:


> You cut out this from my last answer:
> "I wasn't demanding the most perfect camera in every aspect ever made, suited to make Hollywood blockbusters."
> 
> Still that is the opinion that you are defending Canon against here.


Yes, because if everyone keeps complaining about "just this one feature" you end up with a profesisonal video camera. Maybe not in your case, but the overall consensus seems to be just that. Probably was just unlucky that I quoted your post, I didn't mean to say that you personally requested all those features. But the overall majority of complainers do.

This is pretty much everything you read on forums. Complaining about Canon, with some people having very unrealistic expectations. Maybe not in your case, but my original post was not only referring to your post. Maybe should have made that clear.


----------



## rfdesigner (Aug 25, 2016)

K said:


> Tripod said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks Canon UK, for screwing us Irish Photographers one more time!
> ...



not true.. durable goods must be designed such that they could resonably be expected to last 6 years (my wording), it's not a warranty. You'd have to have some kind of proof that the goods were not built properly.

So if Canon put a shutter in only capable of lasting 3 years of normal use then the argument would be whether camera bodies are durable or disposable.

Thankfully we now (as of this year) have "class action" available to us.

EU rules state 2 year warranty, no idea how that will change after article 50 is invoked.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 25, 2016)

It is NOT Canon's fault that YOUR country's government that YOU voted for imposes so much additional cost and tax to bring that product in. 

Maybe people should investigate further everything that factors into why the native Canon entity in their country (like Canon USA for us here) prices the units the way they do before they go popping off at Canon on here.


----------



## Deleted member 378221 (Aug 25, 2016)

George D. said:


> We'll see about this in practice. The notion you might have a better result drives you checking so. Particularly if you're using fast L glass where bokeh goes hand-in-hand.


Well, mostly for refocusing. Once I figure out how "bad" a shot can be and still be saved I'll throw that into my shooting habits. Can I get the critical shot with DPR in 5 shots or under, great. Let's go for that because a couple minutes saved on location is worth the minute or two it takes to tweak in post.
Doesn't work consistently enough? Well, I can always shoot more to get focus right on location, which is more time spent shooting and less editing.
As long as the net result is negative it's worth giving it a try. Either way nothing is lost.
And if there's some really important once-in-a-lifetime shot I'd rather have DPR activated than not.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

E said:


> I wanted 100/120fps in Mark IV.



Fine. You didn't get it. Cry a little, move on. Buy a 5DIV, don't buy a 5DIV. Canon doesn't care.


----------



## smorgo (Aug 25, 2016)

rfdesigner said:


> not true.. durable goods must be designed such that they could resonably be expected to last 6 years (my wording), it's not a warranty. You'd have to have some kind of proof that the goods were not built properly.



...ish

The goods have to last a reasonable amount of time, up to 6 years. The actual duration will vary according to the nature of the goods and their cost. It's all very much a grey area, but a decent supplier won't want to challenge the cost of repair in court. Apple is our poster child, here. They won't volunteer the information, but they'll repair for free within the period for most faults, with most of their goods, if you tell them you want to claim under the Sales of Goods Act. Strictly speaking, the onus is on you to prove that the fault was there from new. In practice, it doesn't seem to be necessary. Thank goodness for over-priced electronics!


----------



## Ian K (Aug 25, 2016)

Order placed for this and the EF 24-105 f4L II.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

George D. said:


> You have to decide whether "Left-side" bokeh is better than "Right-side" ? That's politics. Bokeh is an abstract anyway.



What if "Top-side" or "Bottom-side" bokeh would be better? As I said previously, DP-RAW isn't a magic bullet.


----------



## Jesse (Aug 25, 2016)

"Correct. That's a big assumption. For anyone coming from anything other than a 5D iii, 1DX, or 1DX II, it should be quite a decent upgrade."

Oh? I have a 5Ds and don't see it as a decent upgrade


----------



## Eldar (Aug 25, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> It is NOT Canon's fault that YOUR country's government that YOU voted for imposes so much additional cost and tax to bring that product in.


RUBBISH! 
A 5DSR is priced at NOK32.495,-, incl. taxes, against a US price of $3.699, which is a multiplication factor of 8.8. 5DIV, being $200 cheaper than a 5DSR in the US, is priced at NOK40.599,-, which is a multiplication factor of 11,6. The tax system has not changed, only Canon's pricing!


----------



## Jesse (Aug 25, 2016)

Now tell me about the goddamn DR please. Can we compete with Nikon yet or what?


----------



## Mikehit (Aug 25, 2016)

E said:


> Canon could have done that, without destroying the market. 1 DC existed 2012. 1 DX Mark II exists (regarding slow motion), but Canon has (apparently) crippled the video quality in that one.



I was really pee'd off that Nissan crippled my Qashqai by not including a 3litre v8. After all, it is possible
I was also more than a little miffed that Epson crippled my printer by limiting it to 6 colours instead of 8, even though 8 is perfectly feasible. The miserably twonks
As for my £400 Dell computer...don't get me started. Crippled by only having 6GB RAM instead of 32GB. And a measly i5 processor as well. You would have thought they could have built a better machine for another £50, eh. 

Fancy them selling me products that have been designed for a specific audience within a specific price band. Who'da thunk it?


----------



## transpo1 (Aug 25, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> E said:
> 
> 
> > I wanted 100/120fps in Mark IV.
> ...



It's good to keep in mind, the whole point of having this forum so that people can voice their opinion, positively / negatively, and hopefully offer some constructive criticism to Canon about what they want in future models. Best case scenario is someone from Canon marketing reads the opinions and says, "hey, we're not addressing this feature set for this user / market" and adds it. I would love a full frame 4K video mode and Canon Log in the 5DIV, but I'm not going to get it and may move to Sony instead. If Canon doesn't see my target as big enough to address, that's fine, but a lot of us on here own Canon glass, love past Canon products, and would like it to go the extra mile in value for our particular need. Nothing wrong with that


----------



## JoeDavid (Aug 25, 2016)

Did anyone see a definitive answer to the 4K video capture area? I've looked at the US and UK information and can't find anything stating that it is a central crop from the sensor like the 1DXm2. I've also not found anything stating that it uses the full width of the sensor either.


----------



## sigh (Aug 25, 2016)

For all those hoping Canon will release a firmware update down the line to add external 4K, this isn't going to happen. Apparently the Mark IV, like the 1DXII, only comes with HDMI 1.3 and 4K is only supported by HDMI 1.4 and up. That also means that Magic Lantern have no hope getting 4K out either.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 25, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> George D. said:
> 
> 
> > You have to decide whether "Left-side" bokeh is better than "Right-side" ? That's politics. Bokeh is an abstract anyway.
> ...



That's what rotating the camera 90° is for.


----------



## rfdesigner (Aug 25, 2016)

smorgo said:


> rfdesigner said:
> 
> 
> > not true.. durable goods must be designed such that they could resonably be expected to last 6 years (my wording), it's not a warranty. You'd have to have some kind of proof that the goods were not built properly.
> ...



thanks.. always hard to recall with total accuracy, worth knowing Apple stand by their products to that extent.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

3kramd5 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > George D. said:
> ...



Well, sure...I mean, the directionality of a tiny amount of 'bokeh shift' should always trump one of the biggest factors affecting image composition.


----------



## xps (Aug 25, 2016)

This is what one competitive rumor site thinks:

"The most popular Full Frame camera series of the world just got a new entry: Canon announced their EOS 5D Mark IV and full specs and pricing can be found at BHphoto, Adorama and Amazon. On paper this camera is a “*conservative” evolution of the predecessor*. Still I believe Canon will sell tons of that camera in DSLR countries like USA. Probably 4-5 times more than a Sony A7 camera. That’s why I think Sony should target that kind of customer by offering a Sony A7 camera that can match or even beat the autofocus system as I think that’s one of the main strong point of the Canon" 
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/competition-news-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-got-announced-narrows-gap-shadow-recoverability-canon-sony-sensors/

 A7RIII or A9 on Canon 600mm II 4 LIS& 1.4x extender....


----------



## Maiaibing (Aug 25, 2016)

K said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > "Canon tells us the chief requests of 5D owners were more dynamic range and resolution, as well as better AF accuracy and speed."
> ...


Absolutely.

However, the dominating claim here was almost exactly the opposite: 5DIII users did not want more MPIX, did not care much about DR and that the 5DIII AF was the best thing since sliced bread.

Nice to have Canon's insight on what users where actually telling them and what were the three key areas for Canon to improve as they developed the 5DIV.


----------



## Maiaibing (Aug 25, 2016)

YuengLinger said:


> WTH would have been so hard about boosting the flash sync speed to 1/250th?


Gave up on this. Same for the 5DS/R. Invested in some LED lights and dropped the $$$ Canon original flash as long as their cameras cannot deliver decent sync speeds.


----------



## 3kramd5 (Aug 25, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



I forgot my sarcasm header.


----------



## M_S (Aug 25, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> sanj said:
> 
> 
> > Not buying.
> ...



An ironic and at the same time quite idiotic response. I guess its of no concern to Canon that this person doesn't buy the camera they just released. In the great sales that wont mean anything. But I guess, that the person felt the need to post it here. So whats wrong with that?


----------



## Maiaibing (Aug 25, 2016)

George D. said:


> Price aside, I find this "dual pixel Raw" a workflow nightmare. You have to decide whether "Left-side" bokeh is better than "Right-side" ? That's politics. Bokeh is an abstract anyway.


Easy if you shoot portrait mode. Then you only have to choose between "upside" and "downside". 8)


----------



## M_S (Aug 25, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> E said:
> 
> 
> > I wanted 100/120fps in Mark IV.
> ...



How about just closing down this forum? Seems to fit those "stop talking about this", "get over it", "Canon won't hear you" bashers quite well I believe...
It isn't the camera some have expected it to be. So they can't even write this in a forum? How worlds have changed....


----------



## douglaurent (Aug 25, 2016)

dilbert said:


> hehe it isn't winning any critical acclaim from prior Canon champions...


Well done Philip!


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

M_S said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > E said:
> ...



Just as anyone has the right to write what they want (even if it's just saying the same thing 14-times over), anyone else has the right to respond. Or do you disagree? If so, you have the right to say so...or just stop reading and posting.


----------



## bitm2007 (Aug 25, 2016)

The store on Canon's UK website has the 5D IV listed at £3629 (not £3599) with an estimated release date of 08/09/16. That's only 2 weeks away, that's quick for Canon.


----------



## Deleted member 378221 (Aug 25, 2016)

M_S said:


> How about just closing down this forum? Seems to fit those "stop talking about this", "get over it", "Canon won't hear you" bashers quite well I believe...
> It isn't the camera some have expected it to be. So they can't even write this in a forum? How worlds have changed....


I think people are fed up with all the whiners (not saying you are one of them). The new camera was just announced and already people are slamming it because it does not have their dream feature. In some cases it's a minor thing (focus peaking, if ML can do it why not Canon?), in some cases it's entirely unreasonable (i.e. expected it to have 10fps).
People expect different things, I"m disappointed they didn't include metering at the AF point. But I'm not saying the camera is garbage because of it. Yet some people here do (again, not saying you did). So that's probably where all the hostility is coming from.

Photograhpers online can be a really negative and unpleasant kind of people.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 25, 2016)

M_S said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > sanj said:
> ...



DipS___. Quote the whole post next time. He bought a 1DX MkII instead, so how did Canon, or him, miss out?





privatebydesign said:


> sanj said:
> 
> 
> > Not buying.
> ...


----------



## tron (Aug 25, 2016)

dilbert said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


It was very nice that Canon improved all of these. All these features/improvements are welcome. The issue (for me) is the EU price difference not the price in US. Plus - although I do know I compare apples to oranges - suddenly pricewise a grey import 1DxII seems almost attractive (minus the bulk size...) compared to a new 5D4...


----------



## Maximilian (Aug 25, 2016)

vscd said:


> h1234 said:
> 
> 
> > Maximilian said:
> ...


Maybe you should think before you argue. 
Because we have had these two years already years before. 
So no reason and no argument for such a steep price rise. 
And if you look at others complaining about the high prices outside the EU it seems some Canon strategy to milk certain markets more than others. 
Because you cannot put everything on exchange rates.


----------



## LukasS (Aug 25, 2016)

bitm2007 said:


> The store on Canon's UK website has the 5D IV listed at £3629 (not £3599) with an estimated release date of 08/09/16. That's only 2 weeks away, that's quick for Canon.


in Poland retailers priced the body at 4600 USD (incl. tax)


----------



## E (Aug 25, 2016)

Loibisch said:


> E said:
> 
> 
> > You cut out this from my last answer:
> ...



Yes, not in my case, and my demands are very reasonable.

And I'm not out to bash Canon in general. I want a Canon DSLR, because I believe Canon is best, but I don't want a DSLR with deliberately crippled video functions. I would have payed for a 1D C Mark II, if that was what it would take.


----------



## AlanF (Aug 25, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Please leave Trump out of this. It's bad enough he has recruited Farage to his campaign, Did you know that trump in North of England means fart?


----------



## E (Aug 25, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> E said:
> 
> 
> > I wanted 100/120fps in Mark IV.
> ...





Mikehit said:


> E said:
> 
> 
> > Canon could have done that, without destroying the market. 1 DC existed 2012. 1 DX Mark II exists (regarding slow motion), but Canon has (apparently) crippled the video quality in that one.
> ...



Are you people feeling well? :-\

You're not reading what I'm posting, and you are really rude.


----------



## ritholtz (Aug 25, 2016)

Jesse said:


> Now tell me about the goddamn DR please. Can we compete with Nikon yet or what?


Compared to their flagship D5 camera, 5D4 DR is going to be significantly better than Nikon. According to DPR, Nikon D5 DR is enough for everyone except for hardcorde landscpare shooters.


----------



## Etienne (Aug 25, 2016)

JoeDavid said:


> Did anyone see a definitive answer to the 4K video capture area? I've looked at the US and UK information and can't find anything stating that it is a central crop from the sensor like the 1DXm2. I've also not found anything stating that it uses the full width of the sensor either.



4K is only available with 1.74 crop of center portion. But the biggest issue is the codec: 500 mbps, no h.264 (or h.265), huge file sizes and problems editing without transcoding the footage. 
Excellent Preview here by Dan Chung: http://www.newsshooter.com/2016/08/25/hands-on-preview-canon-5d-mkiv-has-4k-internal-recording-with-a-1-74x-crop/

This does not look like a camera for someone who wants to shoot 4K with convenience. Chung calls it a camera for photographers with a video add-on option. In other words, look elsewhere if you want to do a lot of video.


----------



## rfdesigner (Aug 25, 2016)

AlanF said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > 3kramd5 said:
> ...



Today I learnt something! (southern England.. NOT planet london)


----------



## Mikehit (Aug 25, 2016)

E said:


> Are you people feeling well? :-\
> 
> You're not reading what I'm posting, and you are really rude.



I am reading what you are writing. 
Canon has not put high-end video functionality in the 5D4 
I call it manufacturing to a price point
You see it as them deliberately crippling the product
My comment was highlighting that every manufacturer compromises to meet marketing aims. You don't like those compromises so you can either go with it or buy something else. 

Simple fact is they are NOT going to make the 5D4 a high end video option. If you want high end video option buy a high end video camera. 
If you were saying 'I would like to have seen...' then that is understandable. Complaining that they have deliberately crippled a product is refusing to accept reality of what they have chosen to produce.


How much would you have been willing to pay for a 5D4 with the video you would like to see?


----------



## FramerMCB (Aug 25, 2016)

davidj said:


> Body only: $3,499
> Body + 24-105 kit: $4599
> 24-105: $1,099
> 
> Why buy the kit? If my maths is right, it saves no money than buying separately (and actually costs a dollar more).



I know...the kit pricing w/the new 24-105mm f4.0L makes no sense. None! (At least, as a consumer) I mean, not even a $100USD discount, nada, nothing, zip, [email protected]#$%???? Really. Wow. 

The added benefit of buying separately is that you then have complete packaging, etc, for the lens if you decide to sell it in the future.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

AlanF said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > 3kramd5 said:
> ...



Do they play bridge in the North of England? If so, it must be very impolite...


----------



## sanj (Aug 25, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> M_S said:
> 
> 
> > privatebydesign said:
> ...



Your point exactly?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

FramerMCB said:


> davidj said:
> 
> 
> > Body only: $3,499
> ...



It's actually $1 _more_ to buy the kit than to buy the camera and lens separately. 

Evidently Canon's way of killing 'white box' versions on the market. I can see it for the new 24-105 II, but they're taking the same approach with the 24-70/4L IS kit with the 5DIV, whereas with the 5DIII the same lens was $150 less in the kit.


----------



## jthomson (Aug 25, 2016)

5D4 looks decent, but I think I'll stick with my 5D3. Nothing really compelling me to upgrade. 
Can we now start rumours about what we'd like to see in the 5D5?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

jthomson said:


> Can we now start rumours about what we'd like to see in the 5D5?



That ship has sailed...

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=30588.0


----------



## AlanF (Aug 25, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> AlanF said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



They open with 1 No Trump and steer towards 7 No Trumps as a ringing endorsement.


----------



## jthomson (Aug 25, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> FramerMCB said:
> 
> 
> > davidj said:
> ...



And they were almost giving away the 24-70/4L IS with the 7D2 kit.


----------



## rfdesigner (Aug 25, 2016)

What I don't understand is why they haven't made more of the pop out holographic menus.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

rfdesigner said:


> What I don't understand is why they haven't made more of the pop out holographic menus.



Yet another Canon fail, the far more innovative Sony and Nikon have had them for years.


----------



## Astaroth (Aug 25, 2016)

E said:


> I don't really get why so many here does not think it is legit to complain, when Canon deliberately cripples its products?



It is the concept that every product must including every feature a company can possibly make that isnt legitimate. No company does this and in most cases consumers are happy about this. If VW group had to include the engine from the Bugatti Veyron in every car it makes the VW Up would certainly not cost close to the £9,000 it currently does and would be at least 50 times that. Most people dont want to be paying £0.5m for their next city car.

Companies make products to a price, they consider their other products to ensure they dont canibalise sales, they consider their competitors products/prices (that doesnt mean match), they consider the future path of the product (Canon didnt start working on the 5D Mk4 last month!). 

Sometimes you are lucky and something is the ideal sweet spot for you, if absolutely everyone is in that boat then the product designers probably arent doing their jobs too well as they should be trying to get you to look up a model, buying multiple items etc

This is all before we get into topics like planned obscellence etc 





rfdesigner said:


> durable goods must be designed such that they could resonably be expected to last 6 years (my wording), it's not a warranty. You'd have to have some kind of proof that the goods were not built properly.
> 
> So if Canon put a shutter in only capable of lasting 3 years of normal use then the argument would be whether camera bodies are durable or disposable.
> 
> ...



The Sale of Goods Act dictates that there must be a "reasonable" life on goods sold. It doesnt define reasonable nor states how it should be worked out.

The Law of Limitations, in England, Wales and NI, is 6 years (its 5 years in Scotland) and so whilst you may reasonably expect that some things may last longer than 6 years you are statute barred from taking action against the retailor for selling you defective goods after that. Hence the often slightly inaccurate statement that the SoGA gives you up to 6 years cover.

There is no legal requirements for goods to be designed to last a minimum of 6 years (nor that they can design inferior products for Scotland with its 5 year limit). It must simply be reasonable and it is reasonable that some items will last less than that (eg budget or bleeding edge items). How reasonable is depends on a host of factors, marketing materials, level of technology etc. 

If a new consumer camera clearly stated the shutter lasted 100,000 actuations and yours dies after 3 years and 150,000 actuations then its unlikely you will win any case despite it only be 3 years old.

The other challenge is that after 6 months the onus of proof moves from the retailer to the consumer. Your camera fails after 5 years, you are the one that has to prove that there was an intrinsic fault when the item was sold to you/ that a reasonable life is greater than this rather than the retailer disprove it unlike under the 2 year guarantee of EU law where the onus is always on the retailer to show it was user negligence.

As to Article 50, the SoGA is from 1979, the EU Directive that was passed to enforce a 2 year guarantee was passed in 2011 and was not implemented in the UK because of the fact the SoGA was considered to already give greater protection. Given SoGA is a home gown act why do you think it would change?

As to the 5D Mk4 - agree the upgrades arent as good as they could have been but then I am coming from a 40D and so will be a big enough jump for me but will wait for prices to call and/or a trip to the USA before I take the plunge.


----------



## jayphotoworks (Aug 25, 2016)

Mikehit said:


> E said:
> 
> 
> > Are you people feeling well? :-\
> ...



I wouldn't call many of these misses "high end" video options. As times change, trends and technology changes including how people perceive them.

For example, are LED lights, motorized trunk-lids and rear-view cameras considered high end options on a car? 5-10 years ago you would only find them on German luxury cars and that answer would be yes. Nowadays, you can find them on $10,000 cars.

I now consider autonomous driving, autonomous parking, heads-up displays, heated armrests and massage seats high end options. 

I currently shoot a lot of video work on Blackmagic equipment. I plan on adding or replacing it with a Red Raven in 2017. One of the headlining specs is 120fps 4.5K RAW (Although at 15:1 compression). I consider that a "high end" video option along with 4K RAW and SDI ouput.


----------



## RayValdez360 (Aug 25, 2016)

The problem for the video is that it isnt even and option forr 4k video shooting. THey need to stop using that weird outdated codec. No one is trying to get still from video that badly. to the point where they are filling up memory cards like crazy. Just put c log 1 on these cameras so people can match it with their c100s and c300s to have this as an easy to use B camera.


----------



## weixing (Aug 25, 2016)

Hi,
If "Dual Pixel RAW" can really adjust focus in post and work well as advertised, it might become one of the "No one think they need it, but can't live without it afterward" feature. 

Will be great if Canon can also include it in 7D2 via a firmware update... I'll gladly trade 10fps for the ability to adjust focus in post...

Have a nice day.


----------



## Tangent (Aug 25, 2016)

*Astrophotography and 5DmkIV DPRaw*

Just a twinge to the focus sounds like a perfect scenario for fine tuning focus in astrophotography. Even at 10x liveview sometimes there is still a little guesswork to nailing the focus.

OK I want one.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

Astaroth said:


> E said:
> 
> 
> > I don't really get why so many here does not think it is legit to complain, when Canon deliberately cripples its products?
> ...



No, no, NO! As 'E' has tried so hard to explain, he's not asking for _every_ possible feature...only the one feature that he personally cares about. Try to undertand, it doesn't matter that everyone is different and has different needs, so everyone would obviously want that one feature to be a different feature than everyone else, and in the aggregate that would mean including every possible feature. Who cares? 'E' just wants that one thing, and Canon is clearly screwing him but not giving it to him. </sarcasm>


----------



## pvalpha (Aug 25, 2016)

Looking at the specs its a nice camera. Just not the camera for my tastes. I have a 7D2 and that's serving me very well at the moment. I was hoping for more out of the 5D4 but I was actually expecting less. Truth is Canon is hyper-conservative. The camera had about as much chance of having C-log as it had of shooting 12fps. 

Sensor performance will be the big thing, seeing what Canon's pulled off on the sensor end. The DPAF RAW looks like it might be a killer feature, although probably only for a few people. More importantly I'd wager they have the ADC's on sensor, which should improve DR performance a bit. It would be better if they had BSI, they'd gain a few square nanometers of space per pixel, and that could have really helped push the 30.4mpx sensor with less dependency on improving digic processing for DR and low light. 

Other than that, though, there is no burning reason to swap cameras. Maybe in about 1-2 years I might pick up one when Canon has a sale. I'm expecting the 7D3 sometime in 2020-2022, if Canon keeps to form, although I'd still love to see one in 2018 (or preferably next year) 

The one lens I'm hoping for is a 24-70 f2.8L IS. As useless as that would be to everyone else, probably.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 25, 2016)

AlanF said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > miz said:
> ...



Even Neuro hasn't figured out how to clean the D virus. 

Jack


----------



## rfdesigner (Aug 25, 2016)

Astaroth said:


> The Sale of Goods Act dictates that there must be a "reasonable" life on goods sold. It doesnt define reasonable nor states how it should be worked out.
> 
> The Law of Limitations, in England, Wales and NI, is 6 years (its 5 years in Scotland) and so whilst you may reasonably expect that some things may last longer than 6 years you are statute barred from taking action against the retailor for selling you defective goods after that. Hence the often slightly inaccurate statement that the SoGA gives you up to 6 years cover.
> 
> ...



SoGA has been superceded.. but doesn't change much on this argument.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-34410782


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 25, 2016)

rfdesigner said:


> AlanF said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



And we thought AlanF had no sense of humor, that was a good one. 

Jack


----------



## scyrene (Aug 25, 2016)

Astaroth said:


> E said:
> 
> 
> > I don't really get why so many here does not think it is legit to complain, when Canon deliberately cripples its products?
> ...



A refreshingly detailed and (from what I can tell!) balanced post from a new forum member. Welcome!


----------



## scyrene (Aug 25, 2016)

Maximilian said:


> davidj said:
> 
> 
> > Body only: $3,499
> ...



Ever heard of inflation? Ever heard of currency fluctuation? It's not as simple as the price of the older model versus the newer one reflecting improvements in the product. Imagine saying 'I pay 50% more for spaghetti now compared to ten years ago, but it's not 50% more nutritious or delicious!' : Anyway RRP/release price is always higher than most people want. Be patient.


----------



## scyrene (Aug 25, 2016)

procentje20 said:


> It looks like a nice evolutionary upgrade to me. I don't fully understand all the new features. But once some of you have received yours. I'm sure I'll read all about it.
> 
> I clicked trough the product page on usa.canon.com and noticed the "whats in the box" page list a "Cable Protector" is that the weird plastic thing in the picture?
> 
> Why would I want that? is that a studio gizmo?



My 5Ds came with one. You can screw it onto where the USB cable plugs into the camera, I guess to prevent damage or accidentally detaching it - a bit like old fashioned monitor leads, that had a screw on either side... and didn't printer cables used to have that too? Anyway, it comes off the lead if you don't want to use it.


----------



## scyrene (Aug 25, 2016)

Jesse said:


> Now tell me about the goddamn DR please. Can we compete with Nikon yet or what?



Depends what you mean by 'compete'. The older Canon sensors could compete fine in the sense they produced excellent images under most circumstances, when used correctly. They couldn't compete in shadow lifting. The newer ones are a bit better at shadow lifting, if that's your thing.


----------



## scyrene (Aug 25, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> AlanF said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



It gives a whole new meaning to a game of Top Trumps, I can tell you.


----------



## scyrene (Aug 25, 2016)

Oh and as it's not been mentioned here as far as I can tell - perhaps the somewhat higher price than many seem to have hoped for is an indication, as has been suggested around here in the past few months, that the 6D is moving upmarket with its next iteration? They're making space for it to move into. And then a really budget FF option? (I've no idea about this last bit).


----------



## scyrene (Aug 25, 2016)

Am I the only person who likes a video crop? I mean, it would be good to have the option of both of course. But 4k 1.74x crop (or whatever it is) would be great for fairly distant wildlife, especially in low light - less need to attach a teleconverter.

Incidentally, I don't care about RRPs. I've never paid RRP for a camera. Just wait a little. You don't have to get one right now. Just treat this as a pre-announcement, imagine the release is in six months' time, and you're fine.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

scyrene said:


> Just wait a little. You don't have to get one right now. Just treat this as a pre-announcement, imagine the release is in six months' time, and you're fine.



But it's new and I wants it, Precious. I wants it to be mine, my own, my Precious.


----------



## E (Aug 25, 2016)

Mikehit said:


> E said:
> 
> 
> > Are you people feeling well? :-\
> ...



But you are just proving to me *again* that you're not reading what I'm posting.

*I have NOT asked for high-end video functionality in the 5D4.*

And I have also written time and time again that I don't want to buy a video camera. But that I'm OK with paying for a non-crippled 1D C Mark II, if there were one.

So how come this is impossible for you to take in? I'm accused of writing the same thing over and over, but that's obviously because you're not reading and understanding it. My demands on Canon are fully reasonable.


----------



## E (Aug 25, 2016)

Astaroth said:


> E said:
> 
> 
> > I don't really get why so many here does not think it is legit to complain, when Canon deliberately cripples its products?
> ...



So you just registered a new user, to show me that you haven't read anything I have posted either?


----------



## scyrene (Aug 25, 2016)

E said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > E said:
> ...



Let's put this as clearly as possible: YOU have asked for certain features. OTHERS have asked for other features. If Canon put in all the features YOU AND OTHERS asked for, then it would be closer to a professional video camera. Unless you believe your personal desires are either more natural or somehow more important to Canon, then there's no way for the company to decide between your wishes and those of others. Does this make sense? Nobody is saying YOU want a pro video model. But one person's wishes cannot define a market. Capiche?


----------



## Act444 (Aug 25, 2016)

Official explanation of the Dual Pixel Raw technology. 

http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2016/eos-5d-markiv/eos5d-markiv-dual-pixel-raw.shtml


Key points, some may be surprising to a few folks:

- DPP is needed (at least initially) for the DPR adjustment, and Canon (in typical corporate speak) makes no promises about 3rd party compatibility, says it is up to other companies to reverse-engineer the procedures to be able to add it in. 

- The DPR editing functions are in a separate window (not baked into the main editing interface, for those familiar with DPP)

- you can only make 1(!) of the 3 adjustments per image, for "technical reasons"

- Frame rate and buffer capacity take a hit (expected), and file size increases to 65MB

- For Bokeh Shift, it works left-right in horizontal images and up/down in vertical ones

- Image micro-adjustment isn't going to save an OOF shot, but may enhance/save images that are just that TINY bit off (eyelash in focus instead of pupil)

- Image micro-adjustment will work best on images shot close-up and/or wide-open, at narrow apertures

- Noise may be more visible in the image is a result, they caution

Hmm, has potential, but I think it will be a niche function for most folks.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

scyrene said:


> E said:
> 
> 
> > Mikehit said:
> ...



Let's put this as clearly as possible. If you actually read what 'E' wrote, you'd see that's _exactly_ what he's saying. I want it so everyone wants it. It's not a high end feature. It's important to me so it's important to everyone. It's so easy to do. So logical. Canon should have done it, because I wanted them to. Or else. Or else what? Exactly. 

Capiche?


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 25, 2016)

A refreshingly detailed and (from what I can tell!) balanced post from a new forum member. Welcome!
[/quote]

You got that right!

Jack


----------



## E (Aug 25, 2016)

scyrene said:


> E said:
> 
> 
> > Mikehit said:
> ...



I have asked for a non-crippled camera, with the quality Canon delivered already in 2012, paired with slow motion. That is not a very unique request, that I don't share with anybody else.

I was dissappointed with 5D Mark IV, but I was ready to get a more expensive model instead. But, as Canon cripples their cameras, that model does not exist.

And no, there are plenty of users here who keep repeating that I should get a video camera. There is even one in the quoted post that I answered. If you care to read it.


----------



## testthewest (Aug 25, 2016)

scyrene said:


> Maximilian said:
> 
> 
> > davidj said:
> ...



You are right: Things are not so easy. Inflation is a record lows, the euro is more expensive in yen then before and some even say technology advances and make the same produce cheaper every year. A gain in productivity. The computer buissness doubled their processor performance every 2 year for a long time, with prices staying the same.
On the other hand: A company should charge whatever it can get away with. This sum is in a way dependant on the money people have to spend. German consumers certainly haven't had an increase in spending power by the margin Canon upped the price.

Complains and sales figures is the best way to show Canon that this is too much. So it is perfectly reasonable to complain. On the other hand, finding apologies for a multinational companies hiking up price makes no sense. Do you own Canon shares, or why do you defend the pricing?
Complaining gets the price down faster than waiting silently.


----------



## YuengLinger (Aug 25, 2016)

So, what, only dinosaurs care that Canon could not have given us 1/250th second flash sync?

I'm sure all the other stuff is great for stills, beyond adequate for the typical 10 second video sequences sprinkled into presentations and digital albums.

I'm so happy our Euro friends are squawking about prices there. Just hold on, the US will be in the same pickle soon enough.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

E said:


> I have asked for a non-crippled camera



Well, it's good that you have these forums on which to vent your frustration. While you're at it, you should really stick it to Canon by not buying their crippled camera. That'll show 'em who's boss!


----------



## E (Aug 25, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> E said:
> 
> 
> > I have asked for a non-crippled camera
> ...



You are beyond help, and sarcasm is only fun when it hits the mark.


----------



## scyrene (Aug 25, 2016)

E said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > E said:
> ...



From what I can tell 'crippled' means 'has the things I want'. You said you were being reasonable, but now you're using hyperbole, which kind of undermines that assertion.

The 2012 model is the 1DC, right? Remind me what its release price was...?


----------



## davidhfe (Aug 25, 2016)

scyrene said:


> E said:
> 
> 
> > Mikehit said:
> ...



How about defining it differently: I had hoped to see Canon include more of the features available at this price point (and below) from other manufacturers. This would increase my confidence that I am continuing to invest in a system that will meet my needs for the next 4+ years.

(For the record, I am still shooting on a 60D so a big part of my hesitancy about this camera is that I have never imagined being in a place where I could drop $3,500 on a body)


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

davidhfe said:


> How about defining it differently: I had hoped to see Canon include more of the features available at this price point (and below) from other manufacturers. This would increase my confidence that I am continuing to invest in a system that will meet my needs for the next 4+ years.



Yes, that makes perfect sense...if you think sounding reasonable and logical is appropriate. I guess some people prefer to sound irrational and cranky. :-X


----------



## scyrene (Aug 25, 2016)

testthewest said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > Maximilian said:
> ...



Haha, I don't own any shares at all. Nice hint of conspiracy theory there. I'm not defending the price, I'm saying there might be more to it than measuring the performance of the mark III and mark IV and determining the RRP on that basis alone.

Inflation is low but not negligable. The Bank of England's own calculator tells me that £2999 in 2012 is now £3194.

Some technology gets cheaper as time passes, but some things don't. A camera is not a purely technological product. But in any case, almost all aspects of this model are improvements on what came before. Maybe not *enough* for some, but that's a matter of expectations rather than reality.

Complaining can get things done. Complain away! I'm just responding to complaints with a dose of realism.


----------



## bchernicoff (Aug 25, 2016)

After staying away from this forum for over a year I decided to pop back by to see what people thought of the Mk IV release. I have to say this is one of the worst forums I've ever seen. Do you all ever stop and think about the amount of time and energy you pour into arguing with each other on here about things that are completely inconsequential?

Put the keyboard down, go outside and take some damn pictures!


----------



## Etienne (Aug 25, 2016)

scyrene said:


> Am I the only person who likes a video crop? I mean, it would be good to have the option of both of course. But 4k 1.74x crop (or whatever it is) would be great for fairly distant wildlife, especially in low light - less need to attach a teleconverter.
> 
> Incidentally, I don't care about RRPs. I've never paid RRP for a camera. Just wait a little. You don't have to get one right now. Just treat this as a pre-announcement, imagine the release is in six months' time, and you're fine.



The crop can be fine, but a one hour video using the 4K codec will require a 256GB CF card. To do a reasonable amount of video you'd need to carry around 1 - 2 TB of CF cards. Then you'd need to manage the data. A 3 day shoot might use up upwards of 8 TB of data. The codec does not play well with Adobe Premiere, so you'd have to transcode it all in order to edit it efficiently.

This would be ok if you don't need fast turn-around and you only need a small amount of 4K footage.

There are other really appealing video features: 

DPAF is the only truly useable AF for video from any manufacturer, and with Canon this has truly come of age.
The HDR video option for 1080p might turn out to be a truly unique and valuable feature.
1080p may be really really sharp and colors may be awesome.
Full Frame low light performance and shallow DOF.
The 4K codec will be amazing for pulling 8MP stills from the footage.

And of course, amazing still shots.


----------



## Silvertt7 (Aug 25, 2016)

This is a colossal disappointment. No mention of DR (probably nothing worth mentioning?), the video crop, the HDMI out, the CARDS, the buffer, no spot AF. All the Canon sympathizers I want to remind you that the year is 2016. I am a Canon user by the way. How can one be happy with this news? The Dual pixel thing is all it takes to sway people? It sounds purely like a gimmick/limited use feature. 

Sony and Nikon never looked better. Eagerly waiting on A9, A7RIII, and Nikon news.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

Silvertt7 said:


> Sony and Nikon never looked better. Eagerly waiting on A9, A7RIII, and Nikon news.



Yaaa, man...bring on the bloated uncompressed RAW files, the oil spots, and the uber expensive but lower quality native lenses.


----------



## davidhfe (Aug 25, 2016)

Silvertt7 said:


> This is a colossal disappointment. No mention of DR (probably nothing worth mentioning?)



Canon has proven with the 1DXII and 80D that they're now competitive in DR. They're not class leading, and so they're unlikely to make a big noise about it ("We're almost as good as the competition!"). If DR is a concern (It's one of mine) wait for retail review samples.


----------



## RayValdez360 (Aug 25, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> E said:
> 
> 
> > I have asked for a non-crippled camera
> ...


That's actually what some people are doing. The cameras are more than crippled. It's like they cut the limbs off. When another company adds a useful feature it should set a standard that other companies should follow later on. Canon tends to ignore modern advancements and standards set from other brands to bring the consumers only what Canon wants to give. Such as the 5DS should have had wifi for the price point when other brands offer it. 60p 4k on the c300 II when a camera near half the price offers it and does it well. A camera I would get but I feel isn't future proof enough. It's cute that Canon has so much money but that doesn't make my job easier or help me make more money than I could if they offered more features that others offer for cheaper.


----------



## RayValdez360 (Aug 25, 2016)

Why is it so hard to offer a nice codec for 4k like h.265. Didn't samsung do that years ago.


----------



## CanonGrunt (Aug 25, 2016)

I was ok with them not putting cFast cards in this thing if they were going to at least support UHS-II SD cards. We got neither. Just two older card versions.


----------



## Meatcurry (Aug 25, 2016)

H. Jones said:


> Really nit-picky, but as a photojournalist that just bought a 1DX mark II and is loving it..
> 
> Canon really had to go and put IPTC metadata in the 5D IV and not the 1DX mark II? Like, they couldn't put that in their $6,000 news camera?
> 
> I have my own workflow and don't particularly need to change it, but it would have been nice to be able to embed more data in-camera. I really hope they put this in a firmware update to the 1DX mark II.


Looks like,you got your wish!


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

Meatcurry said:


> H. Jones said:
> 
> 
> > Really nit-picky, but as a photojournalist that just bought a 1DX mark II and is loving it..
> ...



Really surprising, though...I thought we all knew that Canon doesn't listen to it's customers.


----------



## JRPhotos (Aug 25, 2016)

Does this use CFFast cards?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

JRPhotos said:


> Does this use CFFast cards?



No CFast. CF and SD.


----------



## Meatcurry (Aug 25, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Meatcurry said:
> 
> 
> > H. Jones said:
> ...


Kudos to Canon for the quick turnaround, looks like Canon aren't ******* after all!


----------



## GuyF (Aug 25, 2016)

AlanF said:


> ...It's bad enough he has recruited Farage to his campaign...



Either it's the best place for him and he'll blend right in or Yanks'll think we're all like that. Not sure what's worse.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

RayValdez360 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > E said:
> ...



No doubt. Please keep in mind that Canon doesn't give a damn about your job being easier or you making money, per se. They care about themselves making money. 

When the 5DIII came out, these forums were all atwitter with people bitching about how they weren't going to buy a 5DIII for whatever personal pet peeve that Canon rubbed the wrong way by including or not including features. The 5DIII sold like gangbusters. So yeah, those CR forum folks really showed Canon. :


----------



## Ozarker (Aug 25, 2016)

E said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > E said:
> ...



Here come all the "crippled camera" guys out of the woodwork. Well, I have the perfect solution for you and all you had to do is look for it. It is simple to use, has every feature every camera of it's type has, and extremely easy to repair yourself if there is ever an problem... which is highly unlikely. AND you can get it for next to nothing, just like all you "crippled camera" guys would like. BEHOLD:
https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/151567-REG/Santa_Barbara_SWA2B_4_x_5_Pinhole.html


----------



## doog (Aug 25, 2016)

sigh said:


> wockawocka said:
> 
> 
> > GPS can be used for setting the clock across several bodies too right?
> ...



Yes, GPS is used to synchronize the clock on multiple bodies (and phones and cell towers and high-speed trading and everything else your next breath relies on). Read the f**king press release.


----------



## Pookie (Aug 25, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> E said:
> 
> 
> > scyrene said:
> ...



You see Charles, this is where the madness begins and why I left this forum in 2012... this banter is beyond ridiculous. Take a break for a bit and comeback when this has all died down. Go take pics if you can, forums are for bitching and whining, tech specs and has little to do with actual photography. Look how the CR forum jocks are eating it up, they love it because it gives them sense of usefulness... a million more posts and endless tit-for-tat.

Next up are the threads of madness "I got mine", "When will it ship?", "My 5D3 is now trash" and "Oh how Canon screwed me !!!" Followed by BS reviews and unboxing pics. 

BTW... hope you're on the mend after the surgery, cheers. David...


----------



## Sporgon (Aug 25, 2016)

Pookie said:


> next up are the threads of madness "I got mine", "When will it ship?", "My 5D3 is trash" and "Oh how Canon screwed me !!!"



No, next up will be "my 5DIV is producing soft images compared with my 5DIII"


----------



## ajm (Aug 25, 2016)

I think I will wait for a new 1DC Mark II...All I'm interested in is video.


----------



## Pookie (Aug 25, 2016)

Sporgon said:


> Pookie said:
> 
> 
> > next up are the threads of madness "I got mine", "When will it ship?", "My 5D3 is trash" and "Oh how Canon screwed me !!!"
> ...



Yea, forgot that... also the I was taking pictures in my closet with the lens cap on and look at this Fatal FLAW....


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

Sporgon said:


> Pookie said:
> 
> 
> > next up are the threads of madness "I got mine", "When will it ship?", "My 5D3 is trash" and "Oh how Canon screwed me !!!"
> ...



Followed immediately by I AM WILL BE NIKON (or Sony, or Fuji, or whatever).


----------



## ashmadux (Aug 25, 2016)

Holey Moley..

350 for the battery grip!!!!!!!

Mieke- get on this, stat!

Canon can seriously KMA for that. Pure insanity.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 25, 2016)

Not sure if this is already out there. Maybe we should have a new thread for reviews and photos that are starting to appear? I'm pretty impressed and can't see myself going the 1DX II route now. For me 30 MP is important.

http://www.photographyblog.com/previews/canon_eos_5d_mark_iv_photos/

Jack


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 25, 2016)

Regarding the insanity, it's primarily caused by folk with lower posting numbers that that fly in and fly out, generally with little positive to offer. Otherwise CR is a pretty decent place to frequent, especially outside the gear threads. Of course there are exceptions. And then there is our beloved Dilbert.

Jack


----------



## M_S (Aug 25, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > E said:
> ...



Useless crap. Most of the time picking on somebody. Hope you have fun that way.


----------



## scyrene (Aug 25, 2016)

RayValdez360 said:


> The cameras are more than crippled. It's like they cut the limbs off.



Oh definitely. You can't take pictures at all with this new model... :


----------



## Jopa (Aug 25, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> Well that confirms pretty much everything. Kudos to CR again for getting it all out in advance.
> 
> Looks like a great camera. Off to buy a 1DX2 instead ;D



1dx2 indeed. No AF spot linked metering in a pro FF camera is a bummer.


----------



## scyrene (Aug 25, 2016)

M_S said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > scyrene said:
> ...



Picking on? Hmm.


----------



## M_S (Aug 25, 2016)

Jack Douglas said:


> Regarding the insanity, it's primarily caused by folk with lower posting numbers that that fly in and fly out, generally with little positive to offer. Otherwise CR is a pretty decent place to frequent, especially outside the gear threads. Of course there are exceptions. And then there is our beloved Dilbert.
> 
> Jack


You know, that comes with the tone here. It is "shut up" and "cry if you can, nobody cares", if you have a different opinion or follow a different line. Some guys simply say what they expected and get bashed down for being ignorant and selfish. Having read a lot in the forum in the last half year, I can clearly say, that that neuro guy is one of the worst pickers here. So in all due respect: if thats not pissing people off, i don't know. Open minded people will react in another way and argue differently than writing crap under the hood of irony and sarcasm.


----------



## M_S (Aug 25, 2016)

My thoughts on the matter.
Concerning the actual facts that have come out and comparing that to my Mark III.

Pros:
* Resolution is a welcome upgrade. I expected more in the region of 32-36 MP, but I am fine with that.
* AF system: very good indeed
* face tracking looked incredible good in the videos
* touchscreen all the time: looks very good, although I guess I would use it only for pinching in and using the Q-Menu, as these fields a bigger and easier to push as the unaltered old menu system. And with the adjustments I made to the button layout I am satisfied with the speed I get in changing settings already.
* WIFI
* GPS
* USB 3 (although USB C would have been nice too)

Cons:
* Starting price here in Germany. Way to high for me, making an instant buy impossible and other options more attractive
* no 50/60fps in 4K. Would have been nice
* no 100/120fps in 1080. This is a bit disappointing.
* no 4k over HDMI (one thing even ML can't fix, as this seems to be a hardware limitation of the interface v.1.3). And this is really a big bummer as you are very restricted then. For me the biggest con.
* 4K video codec will fill up your card very fast. With no way of getting the data out of the camera to an external recording device with better codec. Very big bummer.
* UHS I on the SD side is a huge letdown and what Canon thought of that is beyond me
* buffer size in conjunction with the slower card-interface will possibly cause some problems in certain situations, but that has to be seen 

Unsure:
* sensor performance.

I had planned to upgrade from my Mark III, but looking at that list I have to sleep over it. For sure I will wait for Photokina and see whats planned elsewhere and descide from there.


----------



## Refurb7 (Aug 25, 2016)

Refurb7 said:


> Pompo said:
> 
> 
> > You are exactly right! All these "Explorers of Light" and ANYONE that gets anything from Canon or ANY brand in advance, are not to be trusted.
> ...



Just wondering, has anyone seen a flood of 5D Mark IV "Reviews" by Canon Ambassadors/Explorers? The is now standard when a new Fuji camera comes out — a bunch of Fuji Ambassadors publish their self-titled "Reviews" as if they are reviewers.


----------



## AdamWCohenVisuals (Aug 25, 2016)

It looks like a very decent upgrade from every perspective, but in the end the only way to really evaluate this camera isn't by its specs but by its operation and execution. I'll be at Melville, NY on Monday with some of my favorite lenses (35Lmk2, 85mk2, 100Lmacro, 70-200 f2.8Lmk2), a pair of 600exrts, a tripod and my 5D3 so I can take some side-by-side shots and check out things like AF performance, low-iso noise, buffer, the touch screen, low-light AF captures, et cetera. I hope I can give it a workout. I'm looking forward to feeling its weight difference (it's a little lighter). 

Of course it will be better than the 5D3. How much better in use and IQ, I wonder? The 5D3 price will fall now so the Big Q for me is about which Priceerformance ratio is going to be more compelling. I have a pair of 5D3s, but this might be an ideal time to pick up another and keep enjoying this camera for another couple of years. The 5D4 isn't going to get me more work, but if I feel like my hit rate will be better or if the IQ really stands out to me, I may jump on this new thang.


----------



## Axilrod (Aug 25, 2016)

Anyone complaining about the video please buy a Sony A7SII. I shot video on the 5D2 and 5D3 for years and still do sometimes, but I don't regret switching to Sony for video one bit. It's light years ahead of the Canon in terms of video quality, DR and low-light capabilities. I still love my Canon's for shooting stills and love my Canon glass, but for video I've moved on.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

M_S said:


> My thoughts on the matter.
> Concerning the actual facts that have come out and comparing that to my Mark III.
> 
> Pros:
> ...






RayValdez360 said:


> The cameras are more than crippled. It's like they cut the limbs off...




Thoughtful, well-reasoned comment vs. asinine, hyperbolic rant. I trust you can appreciate the difference. Hopefully you don't feel picked-on.


----------



## Guillaume GLEIZE (Aug 25, 2016)

Axilrod said:


> Anyone complaining about the video please buy a Sony A7SII. I shot video on the 5D2 and 5D3 for years and still do sometimes, but I don't regret switching to Sony for video one bit. It's light years ahead of the Canon in terms of video quality, DR and low-light capabilities. I still love my Canon's for shooting stills and love my Canon glass, but for video I've moved on.



----> YESSSS! +1 TY so much!


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 25, 2016)

M_S said:


> Jack Douglas said:
> 
> 
> > Regarding the insanity, it's primarily caused by folk with lower posting numbers that that fly in and fly out, generally with little positive to offer. Otherwise CR is a pretty decent place to frequent, especially outside the gear threads. Of course there are exceptions. And then there is our beloved Dilbert.
> ...



If you live by the sword you die by the sword. Respect begats respect. It seems you haven't been around CR posting long enough to understand that while we get sick of the massive, often unjustified pointless inane bashing, we are generally fair, respectful and open minded. And as much as you don't like it I'm guessing you will be fly in fly out. If not, stick around and you'll see things settle down and more enjoyable and informative exchanges will be the norm.

Jack


----------



## gsealy (Aug 25, 2016)

Guillaume GLEIZE said:


> Axilrod said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone complaining about the video please buy a Sony A7SII. I shot video on the 5D2 and 5D3 for years and still do sometimes, but I don't regret switching to Sony for video one bit. It's light years ahead of the Canon in terms of video quality, DR and low-light capabilities. I still love my Canon's for shooting stills and love my Canon glass, but for video I've moved on.
> ...



There are lots of rumors circulating about the next Sony A7's too. We'll see. I won't be buying this 5DIV. I was hoping it would be better than it is.


----------



## scyrene (Aug 25, 2016)

AdamWCohenVisuals said:


> It looks like a very decent upgrade from every perspective, but in the end the only way to really evaluate this camera isn't by its specs but by its operation and execution. I'll be at Melville, NY on Monday with some of my favorite lenses (35Lmk2, 85mk2, 100Lmacro, 70-200 f2.8Lmk2), a pair of 600exrts, a tripod and my 5D3 so I can take some side-by-side shots and check out things like AF performance, low-iso noise, buffer, the touch screen, low-light AF captures, et cetera. I hope I can give it a workout. I'm looking forward to feeling its weight difference (it's a little lighter).
> 
> Of course it will be better than the 5D3. How much better in use and IQ, I wonder? The 5D3 price will fall now so the Big Q for me is about which Priceerformance ratio is going to be more compelling. I have a pair of 5D3s, but this might be an ideal time to pick up another and keep enjoying this camera for another couple of years. The 5D4 isn't going to get me more work, but if I feel like my hit rate will be better or if the IQ really stands out to me, I may jump on this new thang.



Absolutely.

For others: this is the kind of newbie that gets appreciation round here. Not Canon praise, but a bit of perspective and ability to see different viewpoints. Those moaning about being picked on: the people who've posted most here have been around the forum a long time, and have seen countless accounts set up just to moan, or propose a boring and generally untrue line (take your pick: Canon is *******/screwing us/incapable of competing with Sony are the main themes). If you create a new account and immediately launch into an unhinged tirade, expect people to challenge you. That's not bullying, it's a reasonable response.


----------



## monsieurgaudy (Aug 25, 2016)

I don't understand why it's all about video, 4K, etc... If you want to do videos buy a real pro. camera. I'm a photographer and once again I'm disapointed to see that this camera is very videographer oriented.


----------



## Maiaibing (Aug 25, 2016)

Silvertt7 said:


> This is a colossal disappointment. No mention of DR (probably nothing worth mentioning?), ... no spot AF.


You should be hopeful: "Canon tells us the chief requests of 5D owners were more dynamic range and resolution, as well as better AF accuracy and speed."


----------



## kingrobertii (Aug 25, 2016)

Pre ordered mine today. Can't wait 'til it gets here.


----------



## bmwzimmer (Aug 25, 2016)

If the AF is similar to the 1DX mk1 with slightly better vertical coverage, it's a winner.


----------



## msatter (Aug 25, 2016)

It is a pity that this camera is still using the the old USB 3 connector and not the more versatile USB-C which can used as an USB, HDMI and network connection and that all at the same time/concurrent. Probably Canon is not yet on speed which the Canon 5D MKIV to offer current technology.

Only one connector for all is the future that is already present.


----------



## Diko (Aug 25, 2016)

Anyone knowing a reliable european grey market reseller? 

And as I asked before: is it true that US goods purchased in UK are not subject to VAT?


----------



## KeithBreazeal (Aug 25, 2016)

msatter said:


> It is a pity that this camera is still using the the old USB 3 connector and not the more versatile USB-C which can used as an USB, HDMI and network connection and that all at the same time/concurrent. Probably Canon is not yet on speed which the Canon 5D MKIV to offer current technology.
> 
> Only one connector for all is the future that is already present.



Not really the "future". The future technology will be fiber optic.


----------



## blackcat (Aug 25, 2016)

It does seem that some retailers are selling it cheaper than Canon's recommended retail price on their website. I just saw Camera Pro's advert - A$4988. Still expensive.


----------



## Jopa (Aug 25, 2016)

msatter said:


> It is a pity that this camera is still using the the old USB 3 connector and not the more versatile USB-C which can used as an USB, HDMI and network connection and that all at the same time/concurrent. Probably Canon is not yet on speed which the Canon 5D MKIV to offer current technology.
> 
> Only one connector for all is the future that is already present.


LOL
USB-C is the past, Thunderbolt 3 / 4 / 5 etc... is the future. I would prefer a direct connection to my brain although.


----------



## AlanF (Aug 25, 2016)

Diko said:


> Anyone knowing a reliable european grey market reseller?
> 
> And as I asked before: is it true that US goods purchased in UK are not subject to VAT?


US goods purchased in the UK are subject to 20% VAT. There is no import duty on digital cameras.


----------



## M_S (Aug 25, 2016)

Jopa said:


> msatter said:
> 
> 
> > It is a pity that this camera is still using the the old USB 3 connector and not the more versatile USB-C which can used as an USB, HDMI and network connection and that all at the same time/concurrent. Probably Canon is not yet on speed which the Canon 5D MKIV to offer current technology.
> ...



Thunderbolt 3 uses USB-C as a physical connector. So it's not that out of context.


----------



## d (Aug 25, 2016)

blackcat said:


> It does seem that some retailers are selling it cheaper than Canon's recommended retail price on their website. I just saw Camera Pro's advert - A$4988. Still expensive.



Digidirect have it at $4988 in the emails they've been sending me.


----------



## Azathoth (Aug 26, 2016)

Very expensive. Waiting for the 6D mk2 with a tilty LCD screen and a nicier price.


----------



## benperrin (Aug 26, 2016)

Has anyone thought about what the dual pixel raw feature could mean? Focus stacking could be possible at lower ISO's with zero to little focus breathing and in the same frame which is great if you have something moving through the frame. This means you could shoot at the optimal aperture of your lens (f8 or so) and get more depth of field without the degradation (diffraction) that comes into play by shooting at f16 or whatever. I'm re-thinking. I may buy this camera but I'll wait till we have more information.


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## Ozarker (Aug 26, 2016)

Pookie said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > E said:
> ...



Thanks David  Almost out of the boot. The thread is hilarious to me because it is so crazy. To be honest, I might just get that pinhole camera for my trip into large format.Probably lots of fun and I could develop for myself. I've seen some cool photos over at flicker. Hope you are having a great day and that wedding season is giving you a breather.


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## Ozarker (Aug 26, 2016)

M_S said:


> Jack Douglas said:
> 
> 
> > Regarding the insanity, it's primarily caused by folk with lower posting numbers that that fly in and fly out, generally with little positive to offer. Otherwise CR is a pretty decent place to frequent, especially outside the gear threads. Of course there are exceptions. And then there is our beloved Dilbert.
> ...



Personally, I think Neuro is one of the fumiest people on the forum if you read him right.

I swear, listening to some of the butthurt whiners around here is like listening to Devo's version of "I Can't Get No Satisfaction" (emasculated undertones and all) over and over again.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 26, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> M_S said:
> 
> 
> > Jack Douglas said:
> ...



I get lots of laughs from lots of the interactions and disputes. It's this childish demanding by people who think the world revolves around them that irritates me. Never the less we've survived another onslaught.

This is a Canon forum. Wouldn't one expect a lot of happy Canon shooters producing great results with the generally great Canon cameras that we have. Or is this some kind of contest with other manufacturers? I'm thrilled with my photos from the last 3 years with my lowly 6D, why would I want to moan and groan. Now it's my time to step up one level.

Jack


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## 9VIII (Aug 26, 2016)

M_S said:


> Dual pixel raw explained:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HcQ9MSRRvn4
> 
> Seems to me, that the area you can adjust is very very tiny.



Looks legit to me.

For Macro shooting this has got to be the most significant feature implemented in a camera since Image Stabilization, sometimes I have to take a dozen pictures just to try and get just the right slice of focus.

Even if I use a different body for other things, this feature is an absolute must have for Macro. Hopefully we get DPAF in the Rebel line (or on an EOS-M) sooner rather than later.


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## unfocused (Aug 26, 2016)

Jack Douglas said:


> M_S said:
> 
> 
> > Jack Douglas said:
> ...



I've frequented this forum for far too long – going back to the pre-7D I days. In fact, I even remember when Neuro owned a 7D. But I digress. 

I think most of the people on this forum just enjoy anticipating and following technological advancements in cameras in general and Canon in particular. Many are very good photographers and this is just something of a mindless release coupled with some entertaining debates. 

The longer you are on this forum, the more you learn the individual traits of different contributors. Most are reasonable and rational. They have their pet interests and tend to push those, but generally they keep it in perspective. 

But there is also a core group of people who are just never happy with anything Canon does. They have an ax to grind and, honestly, if Canon were to announce a plan that guaranteed world peace and prosperity, they would still complain.

Even the complaining is generally tolerated, until it reaches the point where it's clear they don't know or understand facts. 

I edited this exchange down to a couple of illustrative quotes:* "Some guys simply say what they expected and get bashed down for being ignorant and selfish."*

That only occurs when what they expected is ignorant and selfish (or more precisely, self-centered.)

*"It's this childish demanding by people who think the world revolves around them that irritates me."*

This is the key counterpoint. Saying what you expected or even wanted is fine, but too many people make the leap from "this is what I wanted" to "I'm being denied what I wanted because Canon is stupid/selfish/evil/old/unimaginative/greedy/*******." That attitude is certain to generate criticism and disdain from others. If the person expressing the negative viewpoint also demonstrates total disregard for facts, capitalism, and technology, it is generally not very well received on the forum. I don't have any problem with that.


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## dlee13 (Aug 26, 2016)

davidj said:


> gmrza said:
> 
> 
> > Roo said:
> ...



Digidirect has it for $4988 so they win for the best price so far.


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## tpatana (Aug 26, 2016)

I wonder if you can do automatic focus stack with the DPRAW, or if you need to take 2-3 out from same picture and then combine on PS.


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## PureClassA (Aug 26, 2016)

"It's this childish demanding by people who think the world revolves around them that irritates me."

Precisely. 

This is where some people go off the rails from honest debate to Troll territory. And there are more than a few of these I've seen launch their CR Forum tenure this way with Post #1 and then pop in only to complain more. Makes you wonder what on Earth is so wrong in their lives that they make the time to register for a blog about a product they clearly dont like and make additional time and pointed effort to pop off on it every chance they have. 

Meanwhile, some of us can look at this product and say "Well it looks like a great camera, but it's not the right one for me because of (x)". I have a 5D3 and will NOT be upgrading to a 5D4 for several reasons. (I bought another light capturing toy tonight instead) But none of the reasons are because "the camera sucks" "its overpriced crap" "SoNikon is better and Canon is doooooooomed" or any of the other tripe I read here.


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## Ozarker (Aug 26, 2016)

Jack Douglas said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > M_S said:
> ...



I wouldn't be ashamed of that 6D. Great camera! Congrats on stepping up.


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## Stephen Melvin (Aug 26, 2016)

Haven't read all 26 pages of this thread, but I've read about half. Nobody seems to be talking about the bizarre swapping of the positions of the buttons on the top deck. Push the rightmost button, and the functions are in the opposite order. So adjusting ISO is now the rear dial instead of the top dial.

Gonna be fun for those of us using a Mk III and Mk IV at the same time.

Frankly, I think that's the only possible reason they did it: to frustrate users enough to get two identical bodies. They keep fiddling with those top deck controls when they aren't broken.


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## AviatorAddis (Aug 26, 2016)

Considering this crazy crop factor for 4K, is it possible to put an APS-C EFS lens like the Tamron SP 17-50MM F/2.8 Di II VC or better on this body? If it fits, I don't know what the equivalent would work out as.


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## pwp (Aug 26, 2016)

Here's a bit more...Tony Northrups 30 minute preview:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quwAvqcbLRw

The video mob are roundly underwhelmed. Nice stills camera though.

-pw


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## Eldar (Aug 26, 2016)

I have just spent the last half hour reading through the majority of posts I had not seen and have a feeling we're in a loop. I am continually surprised to see all the noise around its video performance. To me it looks like a very capable camera, considering it is a stills camera with (fairly advanced) video capability. In another forum, a guy posted a “Stanley Kubrick has reshot the 2001 A Space Odyssey in stunning 1.74x crop format … he’s not happy with the result!!!” link. I did not bother to read the link, since video is of no interest, but if people expected that kind of capabilities from a stills camera? … :

To me, this camera looks fine on paper. I probably don’t get my interchangeable focusing screens on this one either, which is disappointing, but something I could have lived with. I did expect to see metering locked to AF point, but I could live with that too.

The one thing we know nothing of, which is by far the most important thing for me, is what we’ll be getting from the sensor. I have only seen some processed jpeg images, so, other than having confirmed that this camera shoot stills, I know nothing. I have seen no mention of improved DR or noise performance, which I would have expected, if something significant had happened. We’ll have to wait for the reviews.

The only thing I know is that they have priced themselves off the playground I am on. As many will know, I do spend lots of money on this hobby, but I don’t accept being ripped off. So Canon; Be reasonable and I will get both the camera and the two new lenses. If not, you’ll have to sell to all the others .. (it is only 30% cheaper than a 1DX-II and it is $1.000 more expensive than a 5DSR ).


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## davidj (Aug 26, 2016)

AviatorAddis said:


> Considering this crazy crop factor for 4K, is it possible to put an APS-C EFS lens like the Tamron SP 17-50MM F/2.8 Di II VC or better on this body? If it fits, I don't know what the equivalent would work out as.



I've read here before that non-Canon EF-S lenses actually use the EF mount because of patents or something, but they have focal lengths and image circles appropriate for crop sensor bodies. Actual EF-S lenses can go deeper into the camera body, which might cause the mirror to hit the lens. Assuming this is all correct, this means that the Tamron 17-50 or the Sigma 8-16 should work for 4K video on the 5D IV, but the Canon 17-55 won't.


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## pwp (Aug 26, 2016)

Stephen Melvin said:


> Haven't read all 26 pages of this thread, but I've read about half. Nobody seems to be talking about the bizarre swapping of the positions of the buttons on the top deck. Push the rightmost button, and the functions are in the opposite order. So adjusting ISO is now the rear dial instead of the top dial.
> 
> Gonna be fun for those of us using a Mk III and Mk IV at the same time.
> 
> Frankly, I think that's the only possible reason they did it: to frustrate users enough to get two identical bodies. They keep fiddling with those top deck controls when they aren't broken.



It was an odd move, but in working reality, it's really of very little consequence, barely noticeable. 
FWIW I have always assigned ISO to the Set button. Give it a try.

I'm gobsmacked that the headline feature, Dual Pixel RAW can only be processed in Canon's software. Do you know a single professional who works with even modest volumes who uses Canon's lame software? Canon can't do software. Who's going to give up a highly evolved Lightroom or Capture One workflow to process their Dual Pixel RAW files in DPP? Take it from me...for the most part it ain't going to happen.

There are lots of other far more inexplicable design/feature decisions or exclusions that make the 5D MkIV a huge disappointment. It could have so easily been revolutionary. 

-pw


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## AlanF (Aug 26, 2016)

pwp said:


> Stephen Melvin said:
> 
> 
> > Haven't read all 26 pages of this thread, but I've read about half. Nobody seems to be talking about the bizarre swapping of the positions of the buttons on the top deck. Push the rightmost button, and the functions are in the opposite order. So adjusting ISO is now the rear dial instead of the top dial.
> ...



Why are you gobsmacked? If you introduce a totally novel feature then it is likely that existing third party software won't work. So, what do you, not innovate? We have to see now what output formats can be produced from the next generation of DPP.


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## Diko (Aug 26, 2016)

AlanF said:


> Diko said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone knowing a reliable european grey market reseller?
> ...


 Thanks!


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## Mikehit (Aug 26, 2016)

davidhfe said:


> How about defining it differently: I had hoped to see Canon include more of the features available at this price point (and below) from other manufacturers. This would increase my confidence that I am continuing to invest in a system that will meet my needs for the next 4+ years.
> 
> (For the record, I am still shooting on a 60D so a big part of my hesitancy about this camera is that I have never imagined being in a place where I could drop $3,500 on a body)



That's a fair enough comment. But I would then ask: given that other manufacturers have features that (in theory) Canon could put in their camera, how many thing do Canon have that other manufacturers don't? And if you want to combine _all_ of those features in a single body then the price is going to be much more than the current 3.7k that people are already complaining about!"


All companies have a fixed R&D budget it is feasible to say that with their large lens line-up they are prioritising that money on AF ergonomics. That's Ok for me.


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## Ozarker (Aug 26, 2016)

AviatorAddis said:


> Considering this crazy crop factor for 4K, is it possible to put an APS-C EFS lens like the Tamron SP 17-50MM F/2.8 Di II VC or better on this body? If it fits, I don't know what the equivalent would work out as.



Absolutely not.


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## Maiaibing (Aug 26, 2016)

pwp said:


> Here's a bit more...Tony Northrups 30 minute preview:
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=quwAvqcbLRw
> 
> The video mob are roundly underwhelmed. Nice stills camera though.
> ...


Sounds right to me. Will sure keep the 5DS/R as my prime camera. 

However, current backup is 6D which could make it worth while to go for a 5DIV.


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## bitm2007 (Aug 26, 2016)

Diko said:


> AlanF said:
> 
> 
> > Diko said:
> ...



Isn't customs duty also applicable on items over £135 ?

https://www.gov.uk/goods-sent-from-abroad/tax-and-duty


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 26, 2016)

As Eldar has said, we really need to see the performance of this camera evaluated before jumping for it. i will wait until early spring to finalize my decision to get it over the 1DX II since I'm going to substitute the rush of a 400 DO in place of the my initial Sept. 1, 1DX II purchase. For me, as a single camera, I want/need the 30 MP. I can visualize me being a happy hiker with that pair.

I'm not ashamed of my 6D at all. It is what it is and has served me exceptionally well ... and the price well   I've had to learn some techniques to help with its shortcomings and that's always good. Isn't that a positive statement in contrast to what we've been enduring lately!

Looks like the thread is already back to normalcy. 

Jack


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## arthurbikemad (Aug 26, 2016)

Nice pair the 5D4 (ungripped) and the 400DO.

Id rather that than my 1DX2+500 all day long!


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## msatter (Aug 26, 2016)

M_S said:


> Jopa said:
> 
> 
> > msatter said:
> ...



Correct and I have 2 USB-C on my computer which goes up to 40 Gb/s and it does Thunderbolt 3. It should be manditory to use USB-C on devices because it can be used as a real universal way of communicating with other devices and most of the legancy devices.

It sad that Canon could not implement in this top price range camera. :


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## tron (Aug 26, 2016)

Jack Douglas said:


> As Eldar has said, we really need to see the performance of this camera evaluated before jumping for it. i will wait until early spring to finalize my decision to get it over the 1DX II since I'm going to substitute the rush of a 400 DO in place of the my initial Sept. 1, 1DX II purchase. For me, as a single camera, I want/need the 30 MP. I can visualize me being a happy hiker with that pair.
> 
> I'm not ashamed of my 6D at all. It is what it is and has served me exceptionally well ... and the price well   I've had to learn some techniques to help with its shortcomings and that's always good. Isn't that a positive statement in contrast to what we've been enduring lately!
> 
> ...


Jack please let us know when you get the lens (400DOII). I am sure you will enjoy it alot.


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## GuyF (Aug 26, 2016)

arthurbikemad said:


> Nice pair the 5D4 (ungripped) and the 400DO.
> 
> Id rather that than my 1DX2+500 all day long!



Hope that isn't buyer's remorse creeping in!


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 26, 2016)

tron, I'd be hard pressed to be keeping it a secret. The order process has been initiated. 

It truly is going to be nice dropping a little mass while gaining 100mm and with more MP, this will certainly be nice for hiking given I already was happy with the 300 and 6D. Maybe the 5D4 and 400 will weigh about the same.

Back up 3 years and I would have pronounced this kind of gas driven purchasing as insanity!

Jack


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 26, 2016)

GuyF said:


> arthurbikemad said:
> 
> 
> > Nice pair the 5D4 (ungripped) and the 400DO.
> ...



That combo has a _lot_ of positives it just isn't that light. I'm sad that I won't have a 1 series but .... What some of us wanted was 24-28 MP in the 1DX II since there is no 1DXs, so it becomes the rock and a hard place choice. No need for buyers remorse, just different +,- scenario. For me hiking is a high priority.

Jack


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## tron (Aug 26, 2016)

Jack Douglas said:


> GuyF said:
> 
> 
> > arthurbikemad said:
> ...


Jack how about 5DsR? More .. duck for the buck ;D ;D ;D


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## E (Aug 26, 2016)

scyrene said:


> E said:
> 
> 
> > scyrene said:
> ...



Crippled means just what it says. Canon has full quality 4K in the new camera (1D X II), but has crippled the quality of the 1080p.

And you are still not paying any attention at all, as I'm constantly writing that I *would* pay for it. You are attacking straw men, again and again. Read. Understand. Don't answer unless you can process information.


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## E (Aug 26, 2016)

M_S said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > scyrene said:
> ...



Yes, this is about the most aggressive forum I have ever visited. Unbelievable.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 26, 2016)

E said:


> Yes, this is about the most aggressive forum I have ever visited. Unbelievable.



Well, you reap what you sow. Regardless, there's a simple solution.


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## scyrene (Aug 26, 2016)

E said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > From what I can tell 'crippled' means 'has the things I want'. You said you were being reasonable, but now you're using hyperbole, which kind of undermines that assertion.
> ...



I suppose my point is, given the 1DC was £10k on release, and that brought a lot of criticism, AND for that money you could buy a pro video camera, a) why do you think that the 5D4 or 1DxII being that kind of price would be a sound business decision and b) why don't you just buy a proper video camera?

No straw men here. You keep saying the 5D4 is bad for not having what you personally want, and saying you personally would happily pay for it. Is that incorrect? Is it also incorrect to say that Canon cannot include every feature desired by each person, and cannot set the price higher than what they believe the market (i.e. the consumers as a whole) will bear? Look how much moaning there's been about the price already. Imagine if it was double that!

PS if you think I'm being aggressive, I don't think you know what that word means. I'm stating facts, gently and politely pointing where you might be incorrect or missing the point. That's not aggression.


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## Mikehit (Aug 26, 2016)

E said:


> And you are still not paying any attention at all, as I'm constantly writing that I *would* pay for it. You are attacking straw men, again and again. Read. Understand. Don't answer unless you can process information.



And that is the nub of the problem.

Look at the number of people who are saying that the 5DIV is too expensive for them as it is. You are proposing additions that you admit would increase the price further and make it attractive only to a small sector of the market.
In other words you are saying that you think Canon should move the 5D4 into a price bracket that would make it a commercial failure. 

I think it is a very sensible decision that Canon ignore you !


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## reef58 (Aug 26, 2016)

Just to make you mad I suspect. You will be missed E


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## kingrobertii (Aug 26, 2016)

I feel that a lot of the time, Canon is the underdog on paper, but in real-world practice it turns out to be a stellar camera. Either way, I am excited for mine to get here and see all of it's goodies. 

P.S. I am upgrading from a 5D II....


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 27, 2016)

kingrobertii said:


> I feel that a lot of the time, Canon is the underdog on paper, but in real-world practice it turns out to be a stellar camera. Either way, I am excited for mine to get here and see all of it's goodies.
> 
> P.S. I am upgrading from a 5D II....



It'd be nice if everyone could fire the questions at Canon and get their honest answers back. We can only guess or if we could find a fly to sit on the board room wall and pass information back, that would work too. I suspect there is a lot of disagreement on the various decisions that ultimately materialize. One thing for sure, human nature is to pump up expectations, often unrealistically, and then be disappointed.

Jack.


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## mikekx102 (Aug 27, 2016)

Not meaning to be a troll, but has anyone seen this yet:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJYXrilGk_8

I found it funny


----------



## msatter (Aug 27, 2016)

mikekx102 said:


> Not meaning to be a troll, but has anyone seen this yet:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJYXrilGk_8
> 
> I found it funny



It is a bit difficult when you also speak German to follow the subtitles so for me without sound and this Hitler is difficult to understand because of the tremble in the voice.

Then what I see the content is correct and it is a long long time ago that Canon did produce a camera that is not crippled by design.


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## Click (Aug 27, 2016)

mikekx102 said:


> Not meaning to be a troll, but has anyone seen this yet:
> 
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FJYXrilGk_8
> 
> I found it funny



;D Very funny, thanks for the chuckle.


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## Alefoto (Aug 27, 2016)

The 4K video of this new 5D IV is simply ridiculous and looks also to have been voluntary crippled: no HDMI 4K output, 1,7 crop factor, massive huge files to deal with, no log or one of the nice codec Canon has, high price point of the camera, high cost and weight of wide angle lens to be used in order to have a wide field of view when recording 4k (canon 11-24 f4, canon 14mm 2.8 are massive, heavy and above 2000 euro). Basically if you want to record a wide angle 4k video with this camera you have to count on spending about 5000 euro and have a huge and heavy setup to use. Not to mention then the massive files and time (and pc) needed to process them. 3500 euro???? nooo way!  

For way less money and bulk you can buy a Fuji XT2 with a wide angle lens like the fuji 14mm or the even wider Voigtlander 12 or 15 or Zeiss Touit 12mm. 

Not to mention the Panasonic Gh4 which can be found used for about 800 euro, wich has a way way better 4k video with almost the same crop factor. And use then the Voigtlander 10,5mm﻿. And still, for less than the 5D IV cost, you can add into the GH4 setup the panasonic YAGH interface unit which will give you powerful audio option.

It's funny that Canon advertized the 4k option in such a camera, it is barely usable and definitely behind cheaper competition options. Even a used Canon C100 for 1500 euro gives you better video!


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## msatter (Aug 27, 2016)

The only way Canon is going to listen to its customers is by not buying or buying other brands that meet your needs.

So if you are happy still with you current camera postpone buying the Mark IV and the advantage you will get it cheaper than now the prices with a mark-up on it because it is new. You never know if Magic Lantern has managed, by then to overcome the firmware left outs by Canon.


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## scyrene (Aug 27, 2016)

Alefoto said:


> Not to mention the Panasonic Gh4 which can be found used for about 800 euro, wich has a way way better 4k video with almost the same crop factor. And use then the Voigtlander 10,5mm﻿. And still, for less than the 5D IV cost, you can add into the GH4 setup the panasonic YAGH interface unit which will give you powerful audio option.



People should not be buying this camera if their primary interest is video. It is a STILLS camera. It still produces video, which may be adequate for many users.



Alefoto said:


> It's funny that Canon advertized the 4k option in such a camera, it is barely usable and definitely behind cheaper competition options. Even a used Canon C100 for 1500 euro gives you better video!



1) All the video people moaned that 4K was essential for newer Canon cameras to not be DOA. They added 4K. Now it's not the right kind :
2) Again, the 5D4 is a STILLS camera that happens to do video. The C100 is a VIDEO camera. How good are its stills? Probably not very good, because it's a VIDEO camera. Get it?


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## promocop (Aug 27, 2016)

So, does anyone want to speculate on WHY no CFfast card slot? And faster SD slot?


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## ibleedblue244 (Aug 27, 2016)

I've read all of the comments on this thread so thank you "mikekx102", I needed a good laugh and the above video you mentioned delivered!


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## tron (Aug 27, 2016)

promocop said:


> So, does anyone want to speculate on WHY no CFfast card slot? And faster SD slot?


They didn't need more speed with the mentioned specifications plus they maintain compatibility with previous models as well as keeping the cost of buying cards lower. But they could utilize a faster (UHS-II) SD slot...


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## tpatana (Aug 27, 2016)

tron said:


> promocop said:
> 
> 
> > So, does anyone want to speculate on WHY no CFfast card slot? And faster SD slot?
> ...



Yup. I don't know if the UHS-II license would have cost more, that might be the reason. 90+% of people who shoot sports or such at 7fps, will be using CF anyway. So the I vs II is not huge deal. For parents taking family pictures at vacation it does nothing.


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 27, 2016)

Firstly I am no video expert, in fact expert in almost nothing. However, I do have maturity and common sense. Some CR comments are lacking even in that, full of bitterness and anger. 

I, as a satisfied Canon customer do understand that there is disappointment over missing features and all the other various complaints that are valid, yes valid. As stated the 5D4 video is so so. When I shoot video it is short clips of beautiful birds, so I'll be thrilled if I get the 5D4 and its 4k.

So, what I don't understand is the excessive whining, whining when we live in a free country and can buy whatever is best for our needs. It's all available, and if you work hard and save you can have virtually anything you choose, short of the most expensive gear. If you save all your life then like me you can have some amazing lenses and a good camera when you're completely free to enjoy it.

What's more, the gear that you can presently afford exceeds what professionals had only a short time ago. Instead of being thrilled with the photographic opportunities and turning out work equal to the pros of a few years ago (you have equal equipment, after all) some of you would rather just moan and groan. If you work in the industry you may have some competitive pressure to upgrade and that's a little different.

Do you really want to live your life being negative when you have all the choices in the world and are free to exercise these choices. By all means don't buy Canon! Governments become tired and old and we boot them out. Companies that show similar signs need to be rewarded similarly by not buying their equipment. If the criticism is really accurate/deserved then those companies will reap the reward and go under or they'll respond and survive. 

Contact Canon and voice your concerns and don't buy Canon. Correspond and delineate exactly how you feel Canon has fallen short of the mark. In this way the masses of discontented former Canon users will make an impact. Intelligently express similar points in CR, which is partly why it exists, in case Canon observes. I'm encouraging you guys to do this. But don't be a loser.

I can't presently complain because I'm happy with my Canon gear and I've just ordered more.   That must really burn some people up - good. 

Jack


----------



## jnx_r (Aug 27, 2016)

E said:


> M_S said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



No, not true. It just happens to harbor some hardcore Canon Fanboys. These "neuroanatomist" & "scyrene" guys are some of them. Don't you go and value their post counts or their opinions. Most of them are either about "defending mother Canon"or about "dilbert" & "dilbertland". I for one think they shouldn't pick on people who were hoping for certain features in their next camera upgrade and come here to share their opinions. If they believe that Canon cameras are the BESTEST in the world, then its their bussiness. But they need not shove negativity down the throats of anyone who feels underwhelmed by one. It is truly distasteful. They keep regurgitating along these lines: "Canon doesn't care, they won't be bothered by the losing you as a customer, they will still sell millions of units, so STFU." In truth, you can say what you want about the recent releases, just don't pay any attention to any of their posts. There are others like me who come here to read opinions as well.

---------------------------------------------------------------------

I am considering the 5D Mark IV as well. I may end up getting it or on second thought, maybe not. I do have to say though, that I am indeed disappointed by the video specifications and the card formats. But it is interesting to note the path Canon has chosen to take with their recent releases. They usually have this nasty habit of protecting their product lines by crippling lower tier products, as in disabling silly features which could have easily made it into their products with negligible cost.

Firstly let me start of by saying that the 5D series of cameras have always been legendary cameras.

Let us rewind back to 2005, Canon released the 5D, which is the first small body full frame camera at an easily accessible price compared to the 1D type of bodies. There was nothing to compete against it for almost 4 years.

Then in 2008, Canon released the 5D Mark II with 1080p video capture. The immensely positive response by the film making crowd was unprecedented. They realized that they had captured a significant portion of the professional video market as well. They realized that they could get more money out of the people who were into professional video, since there was little competition in the $5000-$20000 market.

4 years later in 2012, the 5D Mark III was released and it is one of the most popular full frame cameras among pros world over. It had decent video functionality at that time, nothing ground braking. But along side it, you see that the 1DC, C100, C300 & C500 were released, which had serious video features built in them, but at much higher price points. This is when they began to ditch the type of crowd who bought the 5D Mark II, and started pushing them towards their fully video oriented products, and raised the entry point to pro video.
*[anyone remember the time they threatened to sue Magic Lantern in case they messed around with the 1DX firmware in order to protect the 1DC? Bravo Canon! You certainly prevented a lot of guys from getting more out of their 1DX]

This is when Panasonic, Samsung and Sony took note and released mirrorless products which could be used for serious video under $3500 price point which are now very popular among the video crowd. But they did nothing to dethrone the 5D Mark III which still managed to garner enormous support among the photo crowd. So in summary, they lost some of the low end market, some guys had ditched their Canon systems.

Fast forward 4 years, and you see a lot of Canon customers, and loyalists, who didn't ditch Canon when Sony and Panasonic offered them a safe heaven were eagerly awaiting the 5D Mark IV. They believed that the 5D Mark IV would be the answer to all of their worries, and that their patience with Canon would mean something.

And then when day before yesterday, then Canon dropped the bomb on the 5D Mark IV, you could see that a lot of people were hugely disappointed. Mainly the budget oriented video crowd.

The photo crowd on one hand have a lot to cheer about. DP Raw, 4fps DPAF tracking, new focus & metering sensors.

The video crowd on the other hand...

I'm one of them who shoots stills as much as I shoot videos. So it would have been really awesome if they had put a few more usable features. The crop in 4k video though enormous, was possible to swallow. But MJPEG? Seriously? Does it really take too much processing power to do x264 in 2016? This has only been done to gimp the video functionality. Well I could live with that as well, if they offered HDMI out in 4K.

Wait what?? It doesn't have 4k HDMI out? Why Canon?
They did the same thing with the 5D Mark III and disabled uncompressed 1080p out through HDMI, and they added it later via a software update only after people started considering it as a drawback against Nikon's D800 which was found to have the feature.

Do they seriously intend to ditch the video crowd? Well I'm beginning to think that that they do. While it may not be of much consequence to them whether they lose the video crowd customer base to other competing brands or not, it still does not change the fact that this mentality of theirs is starting to mess up things for everyone. I am pretty certain no one here will appreciate the use of Motion JPEG codec or the exclusion of 4K HDMI out or the huge crop factor for video.

------------------

Now as far a photography is concerned, I question the use of the older card formats for this next generation camera. Both the CF card, and the SD card are older spec. WHY? I know the cards are expensive now, but it would have gotten cheaper with time, like in a year or two. The UHS II SD cards are already cheap. Why they included older card formats in a $3500 camera in 2016 is beyond me. The Nikon D500, is able to use newer formats, while it being $1500 cheaper. Why? Couldn't they have like increased the price by a hundred bucks or so just to include the faster cards?

I get it that its not a sports camera. But now I have no other option other than spending over $6000 for the 1DX II to have decent write times. They probably want to protect the sales of the 1DX II line. But couldn't they have considered the time frame in between upgrades? Its not like they upgrade their cameras every 2 years or so like Nikon. The wait was over 4 years this time. Shouldn't it have made sense to them to at least not compromise on card formats?

I hope rival manufacturers don't have such reservations. CF is dead, CFast is the way forwards. I certainly don't intend to spend any more money on older CF cards, or slower speed SD cards which are meant to become obsolete in the near future.

------------------

Well, I for one am glad Photokina is around the corner. I am pretty sure that I'm not the only one who is going to be looking for alternatives in the list of new cameras which will be announced this year. If I find a good alternative, then I may go elsewhere, or else I will have to settle for the 5D Mark IV if I don't find anything else worthwhile. Or on second thought, I may get the 80D for the DPAF during video, and go to the dark side. Don't know for sure what's going to happen in the next few months, but I'm certainly on the fence on this one.


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 27, 2016)

jnx_r, I don't believe anyone here including neuro would say anything about your reasonably presented commentary. Your commentary and advice is pretty solid. 

If you and others are in fact willing to act then it will impact Canon and Canon will be forced to respond. This will only happen if there are significant numbers and by being free to express such things in this thread you will have some impact, but as neuro might say, perhaps not as much as you think. Still, never underestimate the impact of a growing crowd of discontented customers. In this regard I fully support your efforts because it will have a positive impact (if successful) in two ways. It will help the underdog companies financially and it will force Canon to do better, which will help me, since I'm not 100% satisfied either.

Never the less, you won't presently be able to recruit me since I may have different needs and views from yours and Canon presently fills them (I moved from Nikon). I'm just dying to get the 400DO II that Canon has upgraded so amazingly well, for example.

Jack


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## arthurbikemad (Aug 27, 2016)

Great post, and I agree fully, I am still confused by the mk4. Perhaps Canon have some other model they plan to release? I say that as Canon keep saying the mk4 is mainly a stills camera, they put emphasis on that fact, makes me wonder why they have steered away from video as they have? As I say, I am somewhat confused by the mixed bag of features.... It's all very strange!


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## Alefoto (Aug 27, 2016)

scyrene said:


> Alefoto said:
> 
> 
> > Not to mention the Panasonic Gh4 which can be found used for about 800 euro, wich has a way way better 4k video with almost the same crop factor. And use then the Voigtlander 10,5mm﻿. And still, for less than the 5D IV cost, you can add into the GH4 setup the panasonic YAGH interface unit which will give you powerful audio option.
> ...



I just checked the price here in Italy. It's 4150 euro... For this camera? Waaaay toooo overpriced. It would be an interesting 2016 camera for about 2000 euro, but more than twice as much? Sorry Canon but for that amount of money there are several better options in the market, for stills and definitely for video. Even older Canon cameras (C100 or a used C300 for example) give you better video options. Regarding stills, there are also some things which are implemented in cheaper cameras and lacking here: no AA filter (why did they left it??), better memory cards, better buffer, tropicalization. For stills there is always the much cheaper 5DS!




scyrene said:


> Alefoto said:
> 
> 
> > It's funny that Canon advertized the 4k option in such a camera, it is barely usable and definitely behind cheaper competition options. Even a used Canon C100 for 1500 euro gives you better video!
> ...


I understand this new 5D IV is a still camera and that so many people want so many things. Canon launched the DSRL video stuff and many people appreciated it. Actually there are many people using a single camera for both video and still images and many people use both in their workflow. The 5DIV's supposed video capabilities are adversized on Canon's website as "cinematographic 4k video". No way with those specs and at that price: with 4000 euro, now in 2016, you can get an advanced video system of camera, basic audio gear and a few lenses or a professional video camera body only (the Ursa for example). Considering the lifespan of this new camera (up to 2020 maybe?) and its current specs compared to the 2016 competition (which is about to introduce or has introduced features like pixel shift, no aa filter now being the norm, 6k video, much faster memory cards, etc) it's already a normal camera by nowdays standards. Would it be an investment for the future?
I don't understand the purpose of this camera. For people entering the Canon system? Way too overpriced and behind competition at that price. For people upgrading their canon camera? Not for people doing video for sure. Even for still images there are cheaper and better options within Canon cameras.


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 27, 2016)

"Even for still images there are cheaper and better options within Canon cameras."

We're all different and have different needs. I have the 6D and it's not quite what I want/need now, so given that I don't care about being cheaper, and given that I have good Canon glass that I love (won't say it's the best, just that I love it) and given that I much prefer Canon ergonomics over Nikon and do nature photography with 300 2.8 II X2 III and given that I find 4.5 fps a little too slow for my liking, Alefoto, what would you suggest?

Jack


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## Alefoto (Aug 27, 2016)

Jack Douglas said:


> "Even for still images there are cheaper and better options within Canon cameras."
> 
> We're all different and have different needs. I have the 6D and it's not quite what I want/need now, so given that I don't care about being cheaper, and given that I have good Canon glass that I love (won't say it's the best, just that I love it) and given that I much prefer Canon ergonomics over Nikon and do nature photography with 300 2.8 II X2 III and given that I find 4.5 fps a little too slow for my liking, Alefoto, what would you suggest?
> 
> Jack



Maybe I was complaining too much about the video features since I was interested mainly in those specs and the price of course (as I said before, it would be a nice 2016 camera for 2000 euro, but not for sure for more than 4000 euro). I am one of those interested in both video and stills and so I was looking at the video features as a deal breaker on this new camera. The 5D III gives you nice still images, this new 5D IV will also for sure, no question on this.
I gave a glimpse at the still specs. I am sure it will produce nice images but there are some things which leave me a little confused: the presence of the aa filter (I mean, why? everybody is moving away from this), the small buffer, the cards used, the dual pixel raw is nice but why only with canon software (it's a nice feaure for sure, but most people have already a postproduction workflow settled and very few I guess are based on the canon software).

Regarding your question, I also enjoy nature photography and also do some hard core trekking (the kind of stuff my friends will usually say "no, you can go alone, it's not for me"). Considering alternative options, well, for much less you can have:
- Canon 5DS for resolution 
- a used Canon 1DX Mark I for speed, AF, buffer, ergonomics
- you can even buy a combo of 5DS plus 7D Mark II for having resolution + speed and still have some cash left


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## jnx_r (Aug 27, 2016)

Jack Douglas said:


> jnx_r, I don't believe anyone here including neuro would say anything about your reasonably presented commentary. Your commentary and advice is pretty solid.
> 
> If you and others are in fact willing to act then it will impact Canon and Canon will be forced to respond. This will only happen if there are significant numbers and by being free to express such things in this thread you will have some impact, but as neuro might say, perhaps not as much as you think. Still, never underestimate the impact of a growing crowd of discontented customers. In this regard I fully support your efforts because it will have a positive impact (if successful) in two ways. It will help the underdog companies financially and it will force Canon to do better, which will help me, since I'm not 100% satisfied either.
> 
> ...



I am truly happy for you Jack, and I wish my needs were limited to photography and occasional video. Then I would be happy in the Canon camp even now. The beautiful combination of photo and video technologies in a single package was what made me consider Canon a while back. The lack of the same makes me reconsider Canon today.

I think I'll wait until Photokina is over before I make any decisions.


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## msatter (Aug 27, 2016)

I noticed that the battery door locking mechanism is not made of metal any-more and is now made of plastic. This will improve the performance of a Wifi SD memory card.

So not all bad that Canon did. ;-)


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## JoeDavid (Aug 27, 2016)

I generally sell off the old camera bodies and move to the newer bodies for the updated features and sensor improvements. From now shooting with the 7DM2, 5DM3, 5DS, and 1DXM2, this body rolls the best of the updated features of those bodies into the 5D series (minus CFast). It will be my go to camera. So much so that I'll probably end up with two of them and sell the 7DM2 and the 5DM3. I'll keep the 5DS for those limited times where 50MP actually makes a difference for what I shoot, primarily certain types of landscape and large group photography. The 1DXM2 is mainly sports for me. For the Travel and Event photography that I do, I need the "jack of all trades" 5D series body. The Mark IV certainly fill that requirement. 

If I was going to complain about the Mark IV it would be in the area of the memory cards but not what you think. I'm OK with sticking with the CF and SD combo if they are sufficient for the data rates required by the still and video shooting. Unfortunately the SD media is the weak link. This is about the best SD card that you can get right now:

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1082349-REG/sandisk_sdsdxp_128g_a46_128gb_extreme_pro_uhs_i.html

That SanDisk line goes all the way up to 512GB in size! It sounds great with specs like "Max. Read Speed: 95 MB/s; Max. Write Speed: 90 MB/s". The problem is this spec: "Min. Write Speed: 30 MB/s". I can live with that for stills since the camera buffer typically covers most of the burst shots I do but I've started taking video "you are there" clips when doing the travel photography. I anticipate the Mark IV being the camera that I move up to using 4K for recording them as well as some Event video. 

Now to covert the complain into a feature request from Canon. They need to add another card writing option to allow you to automatically route video to one card and stills to the other card so that I don't have to remember to switch back and forth to prevent filling up the CF card with stills if the camera requires it for the 4K video option to record without dropping frames. I don't think that is an unreasonable request since it's just a firmware addition/change.


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## scyrene (Aug 27, 2016)

jnx_r said:


> No, not true. It just happens to harbor some hardcore Canon Fanboys. These "neuroanatomist" & "scyrene" guys are some of them.



: : :

I can only speak for myself, but I don't think fanboy means what you think. I think my posts speak for themselves, and any objective observer can make up their minds. I do not think you are one such.

...

Perhaps I can be a little more laid back because I only got the 5Ds at the beginning of summer, so the 5D4 was never likely to be my next body. Or maybe I don't bitch and whine about companies not giving me what I want, or about a device designed to do one job not doing others. I've considered many devices over the years, bought some, and it's not the brand name that matters, it's what the device can do, how much it costs, and to an extent, what the reputation it has for reliability etc. I'd recommend that attitude to everyone, but some people prefer to make a fuss...


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 27, 2016)

Guys I understand that your situation is not mine and you or I may need to reconsider. When we have good dialog we may still stick to our views but generally it broadens our horizons and we come to appreciate why our needs are not necessarily other's needs and that Canon has to look at the diverse customer base and try to please everyone. That of course is impossible.

For me in particular, a used 1DX if it was cheap enough would be an option. However, I've been waiting for about 2 years considering that it would be updated by the Mark II and I would buy that. I would/might still but 20 MP doesn't thrill me given my cropping. Stupid Canon should have given it 24 or 28 MP - forget those photo jounalists and sports fanatics that don't want that, I want it, right. I'd love all the other features. 

This would be my last camera probably since I'm getting up in years. I've previously bought and sold a used 1D4 and loved it except it was short on pixels given I have the 6D - nope 16 MP is not enough since I'm always cropping; also the higher ISO performance was not great.

A 5DSr is a possibility but already I know from the 6D that I want more than 5 fps. A 7D was an option but I don't want a crop camera, so actually the 5D4 really doesn't seem too bad. In fact I think I could be pretty happy with it.

And I'm not anyone else so I don't expect anyone else to feel like me but I'm generally satisfied with Canon. Provided I don't allow myself to get too wound up about a few missing features. I think 30 MPs will just about be perfect for me.

So that's why I don't join in the chorus cursing Canon. And that's why I respect other peoples needs and opinions. And that's why I get tired of whiners!  Actually that's probably more because I'm old. 

Jack


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 27, 2016)

Incidentally, if you shoot waxwings you'll notice they are prime candidates for moire, with a filter, so I expect they could be bad without but I don't honestly know.

Jack


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## scyrene (Aug 27, 2016)

Alefoto said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > Alefoto said:
> ...



Fwiw I agree the price is high, and more than I'd be prepared to pay. I don't know to what extent that is Canon's fault, and how much the relative currency values, and local issues (like warranties, taxes, distribution) matter. I've never bought anything on release, it's a good idea to wait and see how much the price drops. Judging by other recent examples, it'll be a few hundred cheaper within a year (especially if you consider grey market imports).

I say again, the C100 is not a fair comparison because it's a video camera (incidentally, it doesn't shoot 4K). The other questions, I can only guess at. People disagree on whether an AA filter is a net benefit or drawback - I can't comment, but I don't think it's a big deal either way (is the 5DsR appreciably sharper? Is it not just a few % different at most?). And memory cards... well again, we've seen both sides argue their case in these forums. Some prefer backwards compatibility and cheapness, others want the best at any price. That's up to you to decide.



Alefoto said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > Alefoto said:
> ...



The Canon website will of course portray this as the best thing at everything ever - such is the nature of marketing materials. Take it with a large pinch of salt. I don't see rival manufacturers producing products *in this category* that do the things you ask, however. The D5 and D500 have just come out, and they have only just introduced 4K.

A lot of what you say has some merit, but I just think it boils down to, who is this camera for? It is an all-rounder. It does a lot of things quite well, but a multipurpose tool is unlikely to better a specialist product in any given area. Higher res? 5Ds/R. Higher speed? 1Dx(II)/7DII. Best low light? 1Dx(II)/D5. Better video? Cinema cameras/other brands.


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## scyrene (Aug 27, 2016)

Jack Douglas said:


> Guys I understand that your situation is not mine and you or I may need to reconsider. When we have good dialog we may still stick to our views but generally it broadens our horizons and we come to appreciate why our needs are not necessarily other's needs and that Canon has to look at the diverse customer base and try to please everyone. That of course is impossible.
> 
> For me in particular, a used 1DX if it was cheap enough would be an option. However, I've been waiting for about 2 years considering that it would be updated by the Mark II and I would buy that. I would/might still but 20 MP doesn't thrill me given my cropping. Stupid Canon should have given it 24 or 28 MP - forget those photo jounalists and sports fanatics that don't want that, I want it, right. I'd love all the other features.
> 
> ...



Haha, it's true that if only there was one machine that could do everything really well, it would save a lot of head scratching. Actually, if the 5Ds had a higher fps option with smaller output size/sensor crop, it would be pretty close.


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## bricat (Aug 28, 2016)

I read most of the posts but still came to th3 conclusion that an upgrade from the 7d to the 5d4 is my next step I have the latest glass, 100-400, 70-200 etc so any change other than body would be expensive. Canon are making products for the consumer but at the same time are protecting their investment in R&D. I have no problems with that I get a great piece of gear and they make money. QED....


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## arthurbikemad (Aug 28, 2016)

If the Mk4 has the same hit rate as the 1DX2 people will be happy, plus at 30mp the images should be good, cropping with the 1DX2 has been a big surprise for me, extreem crops still give good res, given the hut rate is up, FPS is up, DR and IQ is up the keeper rate rises big time in my case, I will upgrade my mk3 and use the mk4 as backup or all rounder, I'd like to get 50mp body but feel it will narrow my options with a second body, once the price drops on the mk4 it would be hard for me not to chop in the mk3, it's also nice to have an option of a grip less body that works with medium sized whites for walking etc. Video wise...we'll it's not my bag but I understand why people are upset, I do and use to shot a lot of video and edit etc way back just not so much now, not sure what the reasons are for canon to chop so much out, I do feel they have done so for market reasons, a brave move that could cost them, unless they bring out a surprise body soon. In the mean time video shooters have many options, however I will say a lot of people I know that make mini films don't really know what they shoot with, as film makers they only care for the content.


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## GuyF (Aug 28, 2016)

arthurbikemad said:


> If the Mk4 has the same hit rate as the 1DX2 people will be happy...



It'll all depend on the scenario. Taking action shots as an example, the larger battery in the 1DX2 will drive big lenses a bit better and the huge fps will allow you to choose the best shot from a far greater selection. The 50% more pixels on the 5D4 (over the 1DX2) may well mean you have to increase the shutter speed compared to the 1DX2 to ensure you minimise motion blur due to the subject crossing more pixels in the same amount of time (unless you have great panning skills). Certainly a number of users have intimated that faster shutter speeds are required but looking at Keith Breazeal's shots over on the military aircraft thread suggest you can get brilliant shots of fast action with 50mp.

How's your panning?


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## scyrene (Aug 28, 2016)

GuyF said:


> arthurbikemad said:
> 
> 
> > If the Mk4 has the same hit rate as the 1DX2 people will be happy...
> ...



I don't think higher pixel counts make much difference to action shots - I'd have thought those were mostly taken at high shutter speeds anyway? We're not talking about 1 pixel blur versus 2 pixel blur, right? Where a higher shutter speed may well be needed is to mitigate camera motion, for subjects where there wouldn't be as much movement to begin with (and always with the caveat that it's viewing at 100% where it becomes apparent).


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## arthurbikemad (Aug 28, 2016)

My panning is ok...ish...lol I am waiting to see some real comparison from current bodies to the Mk4 (1DX, 1DX2, 5D3, 5DS etc etc). Yesterday after some time with the 1DX2 I was back on my 5D3, it's shocking how such a GREAT camera can seem sooooo s l o w after the 1 series. I know there are many factors at play and the comparison is highly unfair so take my comment as "just saying", also it was with a 200/2 on the 5D3 and a 500/4 on the 1DX2 but back to back you'd never believe how much difference in focus speed, acquisition and so on would be. The 200/2 on the 5D3 use to seem quick! I have high hopes for the Mk4.


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 29, 2016)

arthurbikemad said:


> My panning is ok...ish...lol I am waiting to see some real comparison from current bodies to the Mk4 (1DX, 1DX2, 5D3, 5DS etc etc). Yesterday after some time with the 1DX2 I was back on my 5D3, it's shocking how such a GREAT camera can seem sooooo s l o w after the 1 series. I know there are many factors at play and the comparison is highly unfair so take my comment as "just saying", also it was with a 200/2 on the 5D3 and a 500/4 on the 1DX2 but back to back you'd never believe how much difference in focus speed, acquisition and so on would be. The 200/2 on the 5D3 use to seem quick! I have high hopes for the Mk4.



Well isn't that the sad reality of life in general. I liked my 6D more before I had a few months with the 1D4, but at least in that case the 6D had better IQ in non-action circumstances. Better not to test drive the $500K car if you're only buying a $30K one ... unless you have a very easy to please disposition! 

Jack


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## vjlex (Aug 29, 2016)

pwp said:


> It was an odd move, but in working reality, it's really of very little consequence, barely noticeable.
> FWIW I have always assigned ISO to the Set button. Give it a try.
> 
> I'm gobsmacked that the headline feature, Dual Pixel RAW can only be processed in Canon's software. Do you know a single professional who works with even modest volumes who uses Canon's lame software? Canon can't do software. Who's going to give up a highly evolved Lightroom or Capture One workflow to process their Dual Pixel RAW files in DPP? Take it from me...for the most part it ain't going to happen.
> ...



Wow, is that how people feel about DPP? For me I generally prefer it over 3rd party software, especially when it comes to curve adjustments and light retouching. I prefer sticking to the CR2 files as opposed to taking up more space converting to another format. I do on occasion use Photoshop (haven't really gotten into Lightroom), but generally only when the image needs more than just basic retouching. Can I ask what's so bad about DPP?

I do think though that eventually, if not right away, Dual Pixel RAW will be able to be edited in PS/LR, unless it's been stated otherwise. I can't really imagine Canon expecting people to exclusively use their software for this already camera-exclusive feature. After all, it's not like they're making money off DPP.


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## fentiger (Aug 29, 2016)

i don't have issues with dpp, except that I'm unable to add watermarks with it


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## Mikehit (Aug 29, 2016)

pwp said:


> Do you know a single professional who works with even modest volumes who uses Canon's lame software?



Art Morris.
Arash Hazhegi (OK, not a pro but a damned good amateur)


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## glness (Aug 30, 2016)

Please tell me they are going to release a version of this camera without the AA filter so I can by the "R" version. Unless, of course, this is camera intended mostly for wedding photographers. What were they thinking?


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## scyrene (Aug 30, 2016)

glness said:


> Please tell me they are going to release a version of this camera without the AA filter so I can by the "R" version. Unless, of course, this is camera intended mostly for wedding photographers. What were they thinking?



Maybe they were thinking that everyone has managed perfectly well with AA filters for fifteen years, and although a small number of people are now anti-AA evangelists, the vast majority of customers won't know or care, and it may on balance be a net benefit to keep it?

(I've still not decided whether or not I think AA filters are on balance good or bad; I just don't think there's enough solid evidence out there to be so certain, as I've said on another thread).


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## Mikehit (Aug 30, 2016)

And moire becomes less of a problem with higher density sensors.

I think it has becomes one of those 'it can't improve resolution so I would rather not have it just in case' issues.


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## LovePhotography (Aug 31, 2016)

Well, from my totally unscientific observations, it appears as though used 5DSr prices on eBay have jumped about $150 in the last 5 days!


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