# Canon continues to outsell everyone in the full frame segment according to BCN



## Canon Rumors Guy (Dec 5, 2018)

> BCN has released their sales numbers for the last 12 months in Japan for the full frame camera segment, and it looks like Canon continues to be #1 in market share.
> We noticed a couple of stories last week claiming that Sony had taken over the crown as the best selling full frame camera manufacturer based on BCNs numbers, but that’s not the case whatsoever.
> Canon News brown down the numbers for the rolling year, the total market share in full frame for the big 3 over the last 12 months is:
> 
> ...



Continue reading...


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## LSXPhotog (Dec 5, 2018)

I love this.

If I go onto any camera website or YouTube channel, I would assume Sony has conquered the world and everyone has switched. But, unlike those journalists, I actually make my living as a photographer traveling the world to take photos...and I only see Sony cameras every now and then. Everyone I'm working with is shooting Canon/Nikon and Canon is the clear favorite. I have one friend shooting Sony, but I have several friends that switched to Sony and then switched back. LOL

Granted, this is primarily motorsports and editorial photography and they seem like the last group of shooters to switch. But the video guys for Discovery Channel and the production companies I'm working with are using C100s and our staff video guy just switched _to_ Canon (thanks in part to me) and he's rocking a C200 and a pair of M50s and a slew of Canon camcorders.

As our Commander in Chief so famously coined, "fake news". I have seen a vocal minority loudly switching to Sony. But the silent majority has remained with the brand they use to make their living...because familiarity and history are more important for most people. I don't for a second believe Canon makes the best cameras on the market. But they have the best Professional Services and lenses...and all cameras today are overall incredible.


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## wickedac (Dec 5, 2018)

LSXPhotog said:


> But they have the best Professional Services and lenses...and all cameras today are overall incredible.



Couldn't have said it better. So much measure-bating on youtube and forums, you'd think my 5DIV's were note capable of amazing photos but somehow I still keep wow'ing clients and making money. I don't care that base ISO only has 14 stops of DR while Sony has 16 (or whatever the heck the numbers are, who cares). Cameras today are INSANELY good! Just because the Nikon sensor has a slight edge in the DPreview lab or what have you means nothing to me. 99.8 % perfect vs 99.7 percent perfect. Whatever. Certainly not a reason to just sell all my lenses and start over with a new ecosystem and learn a whole new camera interface instead of the one I've been using for over a decade.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 5, 2018)

I believe that in Japan, FF mirrorless numbers have exceeded FF DSLR sales, and Sony leads in that very small segment. However, when you look at all Interchangable lens camera sales, Canon is a clear leader.

In the October CIPA report, for japan, there were 90,163 cameras shipped and over half, 50,611 were mirrorless, but of those, a small number were full frame. Canon sells more DSLR's and more Mirrorless than Sony in Japan, the figures we see were for FF mirrorless markets which Canon and Nikon have just entered, so we need several months to see what the trend is. However, I doubt that Sony will lead in any of the categories, they are 3rd overall as of now, and they predict lower sales as Canon and Nikon sales ramp up. They will be 4th in mirrorless sales by early next year.


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## Talys (Dec 5, 2018)

LSXPhotog said:


> I love this.
> 
> If I go onto any camera website or YouTube channel, I would assume Sony has conquered the world and everyone has switched. But, unlike those journalists, I actually make my living as a photographer traveling the world to take photos...and I only see Sony cameras every now and then. Everyone I'm working with is shooting Canon/Nikon and Canon is the clear favorite. I have one friend shooting Sony, but I have several friends that switched to Sony and then switched back. LOL
> 
> Granted, this is primarily motorsports and editorial photography and they seem like the last group of shooters to switch. But the video guys for Discovery Channel and the production companies I'm working with are using C100s and our staff video guy just switched _to_ Canon (thanks in part to me) and he's rocking a C200 and a pair of M50s and a slew of Canon camcorders.


You'd think Canon and Nikon were bankrupt if YouTube was your primary news source.

I think that at some point, people who just throw money at cameras will realize that whether they own a Sony or a Nikon or a Canon, no piece of equipment can make a boring photograph spectacular, and that buying the next product that reviewers ramble on about doesn't make anyone a better photographer, unless you really enjoy shooting test patterns mounted on a wall.

I've given each of the big 3 systems -- and Olympus MFT -- a fair shake, and at the end of the day, I just enjoy shooting with Canon more, plus, they have a better mix of tools for the stuff I like to shoot.


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## timmy_650 (Dec 5, 2018)

I am impressed with sony from a business stand point. They put the A7 model out in 2014ish and now it 2018 and they are viable option. That is hard to do granted they are a huge corporation with a well known name. I am really happy they are out and come such a far way. I think they (same with Nikon) will push canon to make better products for me, so I happy they are doing well.


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## Sharlin (Dec 5, 2018)

timmy_650 said:


> I am impressed with sony from a business stand point. They put the A7 model out in 2014ish and now it 2018 and they are viable option. That is hard to do granted they are a huge corporation with a well known name.



Well, they have been in the digital camera business since 1996 and the system camera business since 2006 (when they bought what was left of Minolta). Granted, professional FF camera market is a league of its own.


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## jebrady03 (Dec 5, 2018)

You are referencing BCN numbers which only surveys around 40% of sales in Japan (at most, according to their website). The other data you are referring to is with respect to worldwide sales.
So, while you are not comparing apples and oranges, you have managed to pluck a single apple from the apple tree and come to a sweeping conclusion.
I hope this provides a little clarity into what is apparently a very murky, and for some reason, emotional issue.


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## Adelino (Dec 5, 2018)

timmy_650 said:


> I am impressed with sony from a business stand point. They put the A7 model out in 2014ish and now it 2018 and they are viable option. That is hard to do granted they are a huge corporation with a well known name. I am really happy they are out and come such a far way. I think they (same with Nikon) will push canon to make better products for me, so I happy they are doing well.


But Minolta has been in business with cameras for 90 years, Sony took them over and has done very well, for sure.


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## tmroper (Dec 5, 2018)

timmy_650 said:


> I am impressed with sony from a business stand point. They put the A7 model out in 2014ish and now it 2018 and they are viable option. That is hard to do granted they are a huge corporation with a well known name. I am really happy they are out and come such a far way. I think they (same with Nikon) will push canon to make better products for me, so I happy they are doing well.



They've also been making cameras for around 30 years now, so it's not like Sony started from scratch with the Alphas.


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## raptor3x (Dec 5, 2018)

The funny part is that SonyRumors posted this exact same graph a few days ago trying to claim it shows that "Sony is crushing Canon and Nikon".


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## timmy_650 (Dec 5, 2018)

tmroper said:


> They've also been making cameras for around 30 years now, so it's not like Sony started from scratch with the Alphas.


 
They have made a lot of camera in there years, they had their AXX0, which a some of them had ok spec but I never knew anyone who used them. Then there was the A77 or A99 ish camera what looked really on paper but did people use them? I don't know. It wasn't until the NEX that I started seeing people use them, I felt like there were pretty popular as second camera (small kits) or didn't want the weight of DSLR. Then they seem to get better and better with the A3500 model and so on. So that is 2006 to 2013 that they didn't gain much in they way of market share. But from 2014-2018 they grew a lot in term of market share and people using their camera.


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## Woody (Dec 5, 2018)

jebrady03 said:


> You are referencing BCN numbers which only surveys around 40% of sales in Japan (at most, according to their website). The other data you are referring to is with respect to worldwide sales.
> So, while you are not comparing apples and oranges, you have managed to pluck a single apple from the apple tree and come to a sweeping conclusion.
> I hope this provides a little clarity into what is apparently a very murky, and for some reason, emotional issue.



BCNRanking data is probably highly indicative of the overall sales figures within Japan. 40% is nothing to snort at.

I am sure if BCNRanking results had shown Sony in the lead by a wide margin, you'll be singing a different tune. Pffffft...


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## tmroper (Dec 5, 2018)

timmy_650 said:


> They have made a lot of camera in there years, they had their AXX0, which a some of them had ok spec but I never knew anyone who used them. Then there was the A77 or A99 ish camera what looked really on paper but did people use them? I don't know. It wasn't until the NEX that I started seeing people use them, I felt like there were pretty popular as second camera (small kits) or didn't want the weight of DSLR. Then they seem to get better and better with the A3500 model and so on. So that is 2006 to 2013 that they didn't gain much in they way of market share. But from 2014-2018 they grew a lot in term of market share and people using their camera.



I was also referring to their video cameras (both high-end professional and consumer), which are of course mirrorless, making them somewhat similar to the Alphas. And if you check out a site like B&H, you'll be amazed at how many different models Sony still sells. They've been churning out products with sensors and lenses for a long time, and know what they're doing.


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## jebrady03 (Dec 6, 2018)

Woody said:


> BCNRanking data is probably highly indicative of the overall sales figures within Japan. 40% is nothing to snort at.
> 
> I am sure if BCNRanking results had shown Sony in the lead by a wide margin, you'll be singing a different tune. Pffffft...


Agreed that it's a relevant sample. But only for Japan. It's irrelevant when it comes to the global market.


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## hamoser (Dec 6, 2018)

jebrady03 said:


> Agreed that it's a relevant sample. But only for Japan. It's irrelevant when it comes to the global market.


As jebrady03 said, it's most likely a fairly representative sample of the Japanese market, but that market has never been representative of global sales.


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## Woody (Dec 6, 2018)

For global sales, Nikon's market share will be more significant than Sony's.


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## snoke (Dec 6, 2018)

This how stock market person edit graph.


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## YuengLinger (Dec 6, 2018)

Canon is sensible and methodical when releasing new products, as can be seen with their first FF mirrorless. 

But is this also the case with their marketing? Are they avoiding edgy, splashy social media campaigns? 

No matter, they keep marching ahead despite the fireworks and clowns.


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## bhf3737 (Dec 6, 2018)

snoke said:


> This how stock market person edit graph.


If one invests in stocks based on the strategy you propose, she/he will be bankrupt very soon!
Averaging over a year or longer window and analyzing the trend there would be a sensible choice, I guess.


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## Kit. (Dec 6, 2018)

Sony: "since the start of the year".
Canon: "over the last 12 months".
Both fit their own narrative.

But it's good that Canon eventually got some competition.


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## Kharan (Dec 7, 2018)

raptor3x said:


> The funny part is that SonyRumors posted this exact same graph a few days ago trying to claim it shows that "Sony is crushing Canon and Nikon".



Well, if you only look at the last 5 months, it certainly looks that way - it's, surprisingly, less misleading than CR's own spin, "Canon continues to outsell everyone in the FF segment" when that was patently false for a couple of months back. In fact, 2018 might be the first year since the introduction of 35mm sensors that Canon will be demoted to the #2 position in that particular market.


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## Berowne (Dec 7, 2018)

Kharan said:


> Well, if you only look at the last 5 months, it certainly looks that way - it's, surprisingly, less misleading than CR's own spin, "Canon continues to outsell everyone in the FF segment" when that was patently false for a couple of months back. In fact, 2018 might be the first year since the introduction of 35mm sensors that Canon will be demoted to the #2 position in that particular market.



This is exactly, what the graph is showing: Sony outnumbers Canon and Nikon during about four Month in the end of the current year.


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## PerKr (Dec 7, 2018)

timmy_650 said:


> They have made a lot of camera in there years, they had their AXX0, which a some of them had ok spec but I never knew anyone who used them. Then there was the A77 or A99 ish camera what looked really on paper but did people use them? I don't know. It wasn't until the NEX that I started seeing people use them, I felt like there were pretty popular as second camera (small kits) or didn't want the weight of DSLR. Then they seem to get better and better with the A3500 model and so on. So that is 2006 to 2013 that they didn't gain much in they way of market share. But from 2014-2018 they grew a lot in term of market share and people using their camera.



The A77 and A99 were good cameras (ok, I'm biased as I'm an A77/A77ii user) but it's hard to regain peoples trust after messing up like Sony did by releasing only entry-level models for a long time before stepping up to the plate with the A700 (which wasn't outstanding but competitive in its class) and the A900 (which seemed great but they missed the video train there, still a good camera), then acting weird again (A900/A850 gone and no replacement for way too long). People weren't convinced A-mount would be around and many switched brands when time came to update their equipment. And then came the mirrorless models and Sony seemingly decided they shouldn't even try convincing people to buy A-mount cameras.

In 2014-ish they released the A7 and their marketing there has been very good. First off, the A7 was released at a really low price compared to the competition, then they made use of influencers to spread the word and play the "small size", "low price" and "adapt vintage lenses" cards effectively. I mean, people still argue that Sony FF is smaller and cheaper even when they're proven wrong. And of course the FF hype helped them.


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## justaCanonuser (Dec 7, 2018)

wickedac said:


> Couldn't have said it better. So much measure-bating on youtube and forums, you'd think my 5DIV's were note capable of amazing photos but somehow I still keep wow'ing clients and making money. I don't care that base ISO only has 14 stops of DR while Sony has 16 (or whatever the heck the numbers are, who cares). Cameras today are INSANELY good! Just because the Nikon sensor has a slight edge in the DPreview lab or what have you means nothing to me. 99.8 % perfect vs 99.7 percent perfect. Whatever. Certainly not a reason to just sell all my lenses and start over with a new ecosystem and learn a whole new camera interface instead of the one I've been using for over a decade.



Remember this Huawei smartphone gate about two years ago? They claimed that a widely regarded image with a backlit woman was shot with a P9 phone. But then the exif data revealed that it was shot with an EOS 5D3...

https://www.digitalrev.com/article/huawei-claims-5d-mark-iii-photo-was-taken-on-its-p9-smartphone


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## justaCanonuser (Dec 7, 2018)

raptor3x said:


> The funny part is that SonyRumors posted this exact same graph a few days ago trying to claim it shows that "Sony is crushing Canon and Nikon".


Well, 10 yrs ago only Canon and Nikon would have shared this market nearly completely. So, Sony did an impressive job chasing the old dinosaurs a bit. As a user I really appreciate such a strong competition, despite I gonna stick with Canon, as a stills shooter.


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## Ozarker (Dec 7, 2018)

Talys said:


> You'd think Canon and Nikon were bankrupt if YouTube was your primary news source.
> 
> I think that at some point, people who just throw money at cameras will realize that whether they own a Sony or a Nikon or a Canon, no piece of equipment can make a boring photograph spectacular, and that buying the next product that reviewers ramble on about doesn't make anyone a better photographer, unless you really enjoy shooting test patterns mounted on a wall.



^^^^^^^^^
This!!!!!!!


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## justaCanonuser (Dec 8, 2018)

Talys said:


> .... buying the next product that reviewers ramble on about doesn't make anyone a better photographer, unless you really enjoy shooting test patterns mounted on a wall.


Don't say that so rude. Shooting test patterns is the Mount Olympus of abstract photography! In particular if you use Olympus gear...


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## Del Paso (Dec 8, 2018)

justaCanonuser said:


> Don't say that so rude. Shooting test patterns is the Mount Olympus of abstract photography! In particular if you use Olympus gear...


I have never shot anything else than test patterns.
And spend hours and hours analysing every single pixel on my huge monitor, if I don't listen to the youtube experts' opinion.


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