# Canon Files a Patent for a Bunch of Lenses.



## Canon Rumors Guy (Dec 16, 2011)

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<strong>All at once!

</strong>Canon has filed patents for a bunch of fast aperture telephoto lenses.</p>
<p>Weâ€™ve heard a number of times that Canon will update a lot of current lenses in 2012 and beyond. I think the 50 f/1.4 is the one that is in the most dire need of an update. An 85 1.2L III with a faster AF would also be welcomed. I hope they donâ€™t update the 200 f/2L IS, I already love it and I would be forced to love the next one too at $6K+.</p>
<ul>
<li>50 f/1.4</li>
<li>85 f/1.8</li>
<li>85 f/1.2</li>
<li>100 f/2</li>
<li>135 f/2</li>
<li>200 f/2</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Patent literature, self-interpretation and summary</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Patent Publication No. 2011-253050</li>
<li>Published 2011.12.15</li>
<li>Filing date 2010.6.2</li>
</ul>
<table summary="Ã¥Â®Å¸Ã¦â€“Â½Ã¤Â¾â€¹" frame="box" rules="all">
<caption><span><span>Example</span></span></caption>
<thead>
<tr>
<th><span><span>Example</span></span></th>
<th><span><span>Focal length</span></span></th>
<th><span><span>Fno</span></span></th>
<th><span><span>Length Lens</span></span></th>
<th><span><span>BF</span></span></th>
<th><span><span>Lens Construction</span></span></th>
</tr>
</thead>
<tbody>
<tr>
<td><span><span>One</span></span></td>
<td><span><span>85.00</span></span></td>
<td><span><span>1.24</span></span></td>
<td><span><span>126.06</span></span></td>
<td><span><span>39.13</span></span></td>
<td><span><span>Nine elements in 7 groups</span></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><span><span>Two</span></span></td>
<td><span><span>85.00</span></span></td>
<td><span><span>1.80</span></span></td>
<td><span><span>113.00</span></span></td>
<td><span><span>42.34</span></span></td>
<td><span><span>Nine elements in 7 groups</span></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><span><span>Three</span></span></td>
<td><span><span>100.00</span></span></td>
<td><span><span>2.00</span></span></td>
<td><span><span>120.00</span></span></td>
<td><span><span>42.27</span></span></td>
<td><span><span>Nine elements in 7 groups</span></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><span><span>Four</span></span></td>
<td><span><span>133.30</span></span></td>
<td><span><span>2.06</span></span></td>
<td><span><span>158.90</span></span></td>
<td><span><span>51.86</span></span></td>
<td><span><span>10 sheets in 7 groups</span></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><span><span>Five</span></span></td>
<td><span><span>196.00</span></span></td>
<td><span><span>2.05</span></span></td>
<td><span><span>223.50</span></span></td>
<td><span><span>50.00</span></span></td>
<td><span><span>15 pieces in 10 groups</span></span></td>
</tr>
<tr>
<td><span><span>Six</span></span></td>
<td><span><span>51.70</span></span></td>
<td><span><span>1.41</span></span></td>
<td><span><span>89.92</span></span></td>
<td><span><span>39.00</span></span></td>
<td><span><span>Eight elements in 7 groups</span></span></td>
</tr>
</tbody>
</table>
<p><span><span>Both the image height is 21.64mm (full size)</span></span></p>
<p>Read More at <a href="http://photorumors.com/2011/12/15/canon-files-patents-for-50mm-f1-4-85mm-f1-2-85mm-f1-8-100mm-f2-135mm-f2-and-200mm-f2-lenses/">Egami</a>(Japanese)</p>
<p><strong>Source:</strong> [<a href="http://photorumors.com/2011/12/15/canon-files-patents-for-50mm-f1-4-85mm-f1-2-85mm-f1-8-100mm-f2-135mm-f2-and-200mm-f2-lenses/">PR</a>] via [<a href="http://egami.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2011-12-16">EG</a>]</p>
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## pj1974 (Dec 16, 2011)

If I'm reading this correctly, didn't Canon '*file*' the patents back in June 2010? (but they're just *published *now?)

As I'm not up with the latest patent processes - is this an international patent? (or specific to a certain country, eg Japan, UK, NL, Aus, US, Canada, etc?)

Of the lenses listed, the 50mm f1.4 is the most interesting to me.... I would love to see Canon release a Canon 50mm f1.4 true USM which has great optical quality (sharp, contrasty, good bokeh) wide open. I'd be in the market for one. 8)

Does this post mean that we might expect to see some of these lenses actually released soonish? (or not)?

Thanks CR for the heads up. 

Paul


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## smirkypants (Dec 16, 2011)

I'm pretty sure I first saw patent news on the 200-400 f4 1.4x in 2007....


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## Meh (Dec 16, 2011)

pj1974 said:


> If I'm reading this correctly, didn't Canon '*file*' the patents back in June 2010? (but they're just *published *now?)
> 
> As I'm not up with the latest patent processes - is this an international patent? (or specific to a certain country, eg Japan, UK, NL, Aus, US, Canada, etc?)
> 
> ...



There is a delay between filing and when patents are approved/granted/published and of course Canon would not reveal the details until they actually were granted the patent.

Technically, there is no such thing as an international patent. Many countries are party to the Patent Cooperation Treaty (PCT) under which the patent filer is granted time to file their patent claim in each country. Generally, companies only file patents in countries with large markets for their product or in strategic countries because it's costly and time consuming to file and maintain patents.


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## TexPhoto (Dec 16, 2011)

Coming to market soon? Anything but. There are probably 100 patents filed for every lens that makes it to market, because any new lens will most likely incorporate many of hem, and many other will never find their way to production.


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## KyleSTL (Dec 16, 2011)

For reference:

EF 85mm f/1.2L II USM
*Eight elements* in 7 groups

EF 85mm f/1.8 USM
Nine elements in 7 groups

EF 100mm f/2 USM
*Eight elements in 6 groups*

EF 135mm f/2L USM
*Ten elements in 8 groups*

EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM
*Nine elements* in 7 groups

EF 50mm f/1.4 USM
*Seven elements in 6 groups*


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 16, 2011)

Often a patent is announced just as a new product comes to market.

I'm suspecting that the new Canon EF video lenses use this patent. Canon has not published a lot of detail about the new lenses, I assumed that they were repackaging the existing EF lenses with a 11 blade aperture and geared focus ring, but now I think this is whats inside.

We'll probably see the upgrades this year, starting with the 50mm f/1.2, 85mm f/1.2 and 24mm f/1.4 just as the video lenses did.


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## willhuff.net (Dec 16, 2011)

I'm curious to see what changes in the 85L, but at the same time I dread it because that means I will probably want to sell mine and get the new one.

Is it possible these are for cine lenses?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 16, 2011)

willhuff.net said:


> I'm curious to see what changes in the 85L, but at the same time I dread it because that means I will probably want to sell mine and get the new one.
> 
> Is it possible these are for cine lenses?



It seems to be a upgrade for better control of abberations and CA. I'd sure expect that the new cine lenses are using the new formula, but I read the original patent, and the info available about the cine lenses, and there is just not enough data to determine it, at least that I could find, so its my guess based on the timing that it is in the cine lenses, and that all the primes will be upgraded in the next two years.


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## JR (Dec 16, 2011)

I am not sure we can conclude much with this. Filling patent is normal course of business for a company like Canon. And as someone said already, we have seen many patents in the past nad have yet to see a new associated lens for them.

It would make sense that Canon updates a lot of its lens as CR mentionned with a few new body intorduction in 2012, but not sure the 85 1.2II would be first on the list. A new 50 1.4 and a new 135 f2 would be nice though!


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## Blaze (Dec 16, 2011)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Often a patent is announced just as a new product comes to market.
> 
> I'm suspecting that the new Canon EF video lenses use this patent. Canon has not published a lot of detail about the new lenses, I assumed that they were repackaging the existing EF lenses with a 11 blade aperture and geared focus ring, but now I think this is whats inside.
> 
> We'll probably see the upgrades this year, starting with the 50mm f/1.2, 85mm f/1.2 and 24mm f/1.4 just as the video lenses did.



The 24mm f/1.4? That got updated in 2008. The 35mm f/1.4 is what really needs a refresh.


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## Canon-F1 (Dec 16, 2011)

oh no...

6 more lenses where people can ask if they should buy the old ones or wait for the new ones.

prepare yourself...


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## sarangiman (Dec 16, 2011)

The 24/1.4 II should be a top priority for Canon b/c it has -3 stops of vignetting at the corners/edges. *3 stops*. That's like the edges of your image effectively being shot at ISO 6400 rather than ISO 800 by the time you've corrected for vignetting in software. In comparison, the Nikon 24/1.4 has only *1.5 stops* of vignetting at the corners/edges. Just look at the comparison btwn the two: 

http://the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Lens-Vignetting-Test-Results.aspx?FLI=0&API=0&FLIComp=0&APIComp=0&Lens=480&Camera=453&LensComp=690

Yeah a lot of the time for people photos I don't care about vignetting but the 24/1.4 has a specific use case: environmental portraits. And in such portraits where you want to separate the subject from the background (landscape), using 1.4 is beneficial. And in such cases (landscapes) one typically doesn't want vignetting.

The 35/1.4 needs an update? Why? Perhaps for weather sealing but I can't imagine any other possible reason... the lens is perfection minus my gripes about a 72mm filter ring & the lack of weather protection.

Rishi


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## sarangiman (Dec 16, 2011)

The 85mm f/1.2 II lens is in dire need of a 9-blade aperture. 

Sigma's 85/1.4 creates much more pleasing OOF highlights b/c its 9-blade aperture is much more circular than Canon's.


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## whatta (Dec 16, 2011)

Canon-F1 said:


> oh no...
> 
> 6 more lenses where people can ask if they should buy the old ones or wait for the new ones.
> 
> prepare yourself...



;D

new 50 1.4, gimmi


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## feureau (Dec 16, 2011)

>Both the image height is 21.64mm (full size)

Wait, are these,.. APS-C (EF-S) Lenses? Or cinema lens?


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## DJL329 (Dec 16, 2011)

dilbert said:


> Blaze said:
> 
> 
> > Mt Spokane Photography said:
> ...



Well, the only non-L EF prime that Canon has ever refreshed is the 50mm f/1.8 -- and they simply made it all plastic! 

I am really hoping these are EF lenses, as I want a 50mm f/1.4 II with Ring USM. A shorter MFD would be nice, too.


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## Edwin Herdman (Dec 16, 2011)

Hey, some good stuff in there. I don't have too much cash tied up in the 50mm f/1.4 and the 135mm f/2L so I'll just hold onto those - plus, the 135mm f/2L would likely cost me more than the proceeds from selling both the other lenses combined, and that's without considering any potential for a price drop from the introduction of a new lens or the likely fact of these lenses being available only a ways into the future, if ever.


Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Often a patent is announced just as a new product comes to market.


The last few patents announced at CR haven't turned into selling products yet.


KyleSTL said:


> EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM
> *Nine elements* in 7 groups


Handy list, but the patent example is for a 200mm f/2, not an f/2.8.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 17, 2011)

I'd like the 11 blade aperture like the cine lenses have, but its not part of the patent, and Canon has to throw in something for the $$$$ price of those lenses.


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## pj1974 (Dec 17, 2011)

Thanks to those who answered my questions about patents and possible timing of any new lens releases. "Applauds all round" 

Hopefully we'll see some good new Canon primes in 2012, particularly those for which photographers have been waiting for worthy updates!

After all, buying lenses will help the global economy, right! 8)

Regards

Paul


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## KyleSTL (Dec 17, 2011)

Edwin Herdman said:


> KyleSTL said:
> 
> 
> > EF 200mm f/2.8L II USM
> ...



Good call, guess I didn't read it closely enough. I can't imagine what can be improved with the 200mm f/2, the current lens is quite possibly the most optically perfect lens made, and has all the latest technologies that Canon offers (4-stop IS, Ring USM, Flourite, UD). Unless they improved the barrel design with new materials like the 300, 400, 500, and 600mm lenses to make them lighter, I can't imagine what could be made better (especially since the current one was released in 2008). The current 200mm f2 is heavier than the 300mm f2.8 IS II (5.56 lbs and 5.19 lbs, respectively), but slightly lighter than the 300mm f2.8 IS (5.63 lbs).


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 17, 2011)

feureau said:


> >Both the image height is 21.64mm (full size)
> 
> Wait, are these,.. APS-C (EF-S) Lenses? Or cinema lens?



They are EF lenses (for full frame). The 'image height' value is a radius, so 21.64 mm x 2 = 43.28 mm, the diameter of the FF image circle.


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## scottsdaleriots (Dec 17, 2011)

Canon-F1 said:


> oh no...
> 
> 6 more lenses where people can ask if they should buy the old ones or wait for the new ones.
> 
> prepare yourself...


Haha I was just about 100% certain that I would buy the 50mm 1.4 but now they've released the patent I'm not so sure now 

*Anyone know when they'll roughly release the 50mm 1.4 and the 85's? Like a rough estimate? Early next year or late 2012? I'm studying photography next year and will be doing A LOT of studio work (so far all I know it's going to be food photography and portraits [high key and low key] and my kit lens is limited when it comes to low light shooting situations and my 70-200 2.8 IS II is heavy as). I need an alternative*

Stop milking it Canon and hurry up and release the 5dmkIII and the updated primes already! Not fair


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## Arkarch (Dec 17, 2011)

I have not reviewed the patents or compared them to the existing lens, but,

I have to wonder if several of these recent patents are simply efforts to refresh patent IP coming up on 17-year expirations? Yeah, I checked and EF has been around since 1987; but I dont know the timeline on each lens or if the "new" inventions are actually new or just updates.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 17, 2011)

scottsdaleriots said:


> Anyone know when they'll roughly release the 50mm 1.4 and the 85's? Like a rough estimate? Early next year or late 2012?



These are patents, not products. Canon has close to 2500 patents published per year, so obviously, only a small percentage ever see the light of day as products (and many are not intended to, but rather to constrain the competition). 

The 85/1.2 II is relatively recent, and Canon hasn't updated _any_ non-L EF primes except the 50/1.8 II, and that was to make it cheaper to produce, and was before dSLRs were a consumer product. Today's 'typical' consumer wants zoom lenses and/or cheap lenses (<$250), and uses an APS-C camera. So, I honestly doubt there is much of a market-driven need to update the non-L EF primes (except perhaps a 50/1.8 III for even lower production costs of that very popular lens).


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## bycostello (Dec 17, 2011)

no 24-70 is L :-[


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## tt (Dec 17, 2011)

Presumably we'd know if they were PL mount lenses for the C300 by March/April? There's already been a 85mm PL mount shown


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## willrobb (Dec 17, 2011)

These are just patents, nothing to say they will ever see the light of day as products, but if they I would be interested to see what some of the suggested primes could do if they ever came into existence. Especially the 85L.


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## ecka (Dec 17, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> scottsdaleriots said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone know when they'll roughly release the 50mm 1.4 and the 85's? Like a rough estimate? Early next year or late 2012?
> ...


Well, 85L II is 5 years old by now, but we can still call it a recent update. Then how about 10+ years? The original EF 50/1.8 is from the first (non-L, non-USM) "wave" of EF lenses and it was updated in 1990 (3 years later) just before the second (non-L) "wave". Nikon had recently updated their cheap 50/1.8 and it seems to be a great deal for the price. For just $220 you are getting a decent glass with a silent AF motor, 7 (rounded) aperture blades + (wow  ) a lens hood and a pouch. Now, what lower production costs are we talking about? I don't think that we'll ever see the 50/1.8 III. What consumers really want/need is a fast normal prime for their crop bodies like EF-S 28mm (or 30mm), not another too long fifty. However, a new 50mm (?L) Macro would be nice.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 17, 2011)

I could certainly see a short EF-S prime as a normal lens for APS-C. As for the 50/1.8 II update, that's one of Canon three top-selling lenses. Check out the 'updates' to the other two of the top three - the EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS II and the EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS II. No optical changes, just marginally cheaper production costs (even a small savings means big profit for the number of units sold).

Earlier this year, Canon hit a couple of sales milestones - 50 million EOS bodies and 70 million EF lenses (which includes EF-S). What does that mean? An average of 1.4 lenses per camera. Far and away, the most popular current lenses in addition to the 18-55 kit lens, are the EF-S 55-250 and the 50/1.8 II. To me, that suggests they probably sell relatively few non-L EF primes (50/1.8 notwithstanding). The 35/2 doesn't seem terribly popular, despite being 'normal' on APS-C. Since it's build and performance are similar to the 50/1.8 II, the far lower sales of the 35/2 are likely due to its higher price tag (cheap compared to most lenses, but still 3x the cost of the 50/1.8 II).

So, personally I think that if Canon does release an EF-S 28/30/35mm lens, it won't be the f/1.4 USM lens people who frequent this forum would probably prefer, but would likely cost well north of $400, perhaps $500-600. Instead, I think they'd telease an f/1.8 non-USM lens costing a bit over $200.


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## ecka (Dec 18, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> I could certainly see a short EF-S prime as a normal lens for APS-C. As for the 50/1.8 II update, that's one of Canon three top-selling lenses. Check out the 'updates' to the other two of the top three - the EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS II and the EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS II. No optical changes, just marginally cheaper production costs (even a small savings means big profit for the number of units sold).
> 
> Earlier this year, Canon hit a couple of sales milestones - 50 million EOS bodies and 70 million EF lenses (which includes EF-S). What does that mean? An average of 1.4 lenses per camera. Far and away, the most popular current lenses in addition to the 18-55 kit lens, are the EF-S 55-250 and the 50/1.8 II. To me, that suggests they probably sell relatively few non-L EF primes (50/1.8 notwithstanding). The 35/2 doesn't seem terribly popular, despite being 'normal' on APS-C. Since it's build and performance are similar to the 50/1.8 II, the far lower sales of the 35/2 are likely due to its higher price tag (cheap compared to most lenses, but still 3x the cost of the 50/1.8 II).
> 
> So, personally I think that if Canon does release an EF-S 28/30/35mm lens, it won't be the f/1.4 USM lens people who frequent this forum would probably prefer, but would likely cost well north of $400, perhaps $500-600. Instead, I think they'd telease an f/1.8 non-USM lens costing a bit over $200.



IMHO, if someone really thinks that a $100 lens isn't cheap enough, then perhaps he should buy a cheap P&S camera instead of DSLR . 50/1.8III doesn't make sense to me, at all. I hope the new one will have USM in it.
Hmm, EF-S 28/30/35mm f/1.8 non-USM, very unlikely. I think that non-USM primes are history. How many of those were released in the last 10 years? Zero?


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 18, 2011)

ecka said:


> IMHO, if someone really thinks that a $100 lens isn't cheap enough, then perhaps he should buy a cheap P&S camera instead of DSLR . 50/1.8III doesn't make sense to me, at all. I hope the new one will have USM in it.
> Hmm, EF-S 28/30/35mm f/1.8 non-USM, very unlikely. I think that non-USM primes are history. How many of those were released in the last 10 years? Zero?



Zero in the last 10 years. The number of non-L EF primes in the last 10 years with USM? Also zero. It's quite possible that non-L EF primes are history, with or without USM. Consider - since the introduction of the EF-S mount, Canon has released just two non-L EF lenses, the two 70-300mm zooms (a focal range where the EF-S format offers no real benefit), no primes. Everything else has been EF-S or L. When they were designed, the non-L EF lenses were for consumers - they also shot FF (film) and affordable lenses were necessary. That need is now fulfilled by EF-S lenses. 

As for the 50/1.8 II, I'm not suggesting that Canon would decrease production costs with a MkIII and then pass the savings on to customers. Like the 18-55 IS II and 55-250 II, the prices for the new lenses would stay the same or increase slightly (they can tout 'improved AF algorithms' which are basically free from Canon's perspective). The only point of reducing production costs would be increased profit per unit.


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## ecka (Dec 18, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> ecka said:
> 
> 
> > IMHO, if someone really thinks that a $100 lens isn't cheap enough, then perhaps he should buy a cheap P&S camera instead of DSLR . 50/1.8III doesn't make sense to me, at all. I hope the new one will have USM in it.
> ...


Actually, most of them were released in the last 10 years (all except EF 100mm f/2 USM in 1991) 
EF 50mm f/1.4 USM - 1993 (not a ring type, but still  )
EF 20mm f/2.8 USM - 1992
EF 28mm f/1.8 USM - 1995
EF 85mm f/1.8 USM - 1992
EF 100mm f/2.8 USM Macro - 2000
However, I agree with you, there may be no future for non-L EF primes. Only L and EF-S will remain, but there is no future for non-USM EF-S primes as well. Canon yet have to make some cheap (affordable) EF-S primes, the market is starving for those. Current EF 28mm f/1.8 USM isn't any good for the price, Sigma 30/1.4 or Nikon 35/1.8 are much more attractive. IMHO Canon should discontinue all 5 non-L EF wide primes (EF 20mm f/2.8 USM, EF 24mm f/2.8, EF 28mm f/2.8, EF 35mm f/2, EF 28mm f/1.8 USM) and release some new EF-S USM primes instead. Like EF-S 20mm f/1.8 USM, EF-S 30mm f/1.8 USM and maybe an UWA - EF-S 8mm f/(something) USM.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 18, 2011)

ecka said:


> Actually, most of them were released in the last 10 years (all except EF 100mm f/2 USM in 1991)
> EF 50mm f/1.4 USM - 1993 (not a ring type, but still  )
> EF 20mm f/2.8 USM - 1992
> EF 28mm f/1.8 USM - 1995
> ...



Ummmm...are you currently worried about the dreaded Y2K bug?  I'm not sure which time zone or alternate reality you're living in, but where _I_ am (and I suspect, the rest of the world as well), it's currently 2011. Counting backward from this year (it's a good thing I have 10 fingers!) shows that 'the last 10 years' comprise 2001-2010. Your list of lenses is entirely pre-2001.

+1 on the need for a set of wide-to-normal EF-S primes!


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## ecka (Dec 18, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> ecka said:
> 
> 
> > Actually, most of them were released in the last 10 years (all except EF 100mm f/2 USM in 1991)
> ...


I'm sorry, you are right. I must be too tired right now and 10 or 20 years doesn't make any difference to me . Let's make it 20 .


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## hutjeflut (Dec 18, 2011)

still waiting and hoping for a 50mm 1.8 with much better focus then the current 1.8 

i love it opticly but the focus is just rubbish...


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## Justin (Dec 18, 2011)

Interesting discussion about market share and profitability. I think most of it is right. We won't see any more non L EF primes. EF-S? Sure. 

Canon really can do no wrong with it's latest rounds of L lenses, say since 2008. Thing is most of them are super teles and out of reach for mere mortals. Where Canon should innovate on the current prime lens lineup is in corner sharpness wide open, chromatic aberrations, and vignetting. I'd pay more and carry heavier primes if Canon could make these lenses mightier and even add IS. 

I would love to be able to add a few primes to my bag including:

35 1.4 IS, better corner sharpness, lower CA, faster AF
85 1.4 IS, faster focus than 85 1.2, better corner sharpness wide open, lower CA

I'd pay $2k each for these lenses.


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## JR (Dec 18, 2011)

Justin said:


> I'd pay more and carry heavier primes if Canon could make these lenses mightier and even add IS.
> 
> I would love to be able to add a few primes to my bag including:
> 
> ...



I would buy them too (at least the 35mm) but I dont think we will see IS on any L prime from Canon below the 100mm mark. I certainly would like that to some degree because it could be useful for taking video handheld, but I dont think it will happen.


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