# Do I need the 580?



## lexonio (Feb 21, 2012)

First of all I'd like to say that I'm a hobbyist, not a professional photographer, and only recently did I get into flash photography. My current setup is 550D + 24-105L, but I'm getting one of the 5Ds (ii or iii) when the latter is available. I'm mostly shooting general "walkaround" photography with some lean towards press photography (e.g. political meetings and etc.). I also shoot at weddings, family reunions, that kind of thing. So now I need a flash since many of these events tend to happen indoors, and I'm currently deciding between 430 and 580.

From the looks of it I'll have only one flash for the time being (I'm not a studio photographer, more of an action one), and 580 seems to be easier to operate. On the other hand it's much heavier than the 430 and costs more. Do you experience this additional weight problem, and do you feel that the price difference is justified in this case?


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## Marsu42 (Feb 21, 2012)

I recently got a 430ex2, and because of the high value to price relation, I am extremely happy with it. It "just works" which I consider to be a very important thing 

I did some research before the purchase and the only reasons for me to get the top-of-the-line model with the added premium $$$ would be fec bracketing and the possible external power supply for faster reload times on bounce flashes. The former selling argument for the 580 was the ability to control slave flashes - but I can do that with my 60D, too.

If you do tele action shots however, the stronger flash might be important - however, both flashes have the "high speed" setting.


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## smirkypants (Feb 21, 2012)

If I were to have just one, it would be the 580EX II. Though I hate on-camera flash, it's a necessary evil for weddings and if you start doing large groups with big bounces you may need it. Maybe not, but maybe so. It's also just generally more flexible and the weight difference really won't be an issue.


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## samthefish (Feb 21, 2012)

I started out with the 7D and two 480IIs. I eventually added a 580II and am very happy with it. Build quality is much better and the dial makes it much easier to change settings quickly. The extra power allows me to use bounce flash in rooms with much higher ceilings. My kids love the strobe function shots for something a little different. If I could have only one flash it would be 580II for sure.


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## Mendolera (Feb 21, 2012)

If money is not a big issue I would get the 580ex II. Ive used both and one of the cool features of the 580 is the strobe which can make for some cool shots against a dark background. 

You mentioned weddings; and some churches have higher ceilings can benefit that can benefit from a bounce at 1/2 or 1/4 and faster recycle times.

But by no means is the 430 a slouch and will be worlds different then the on-camera.


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 21, 2012)

lexonio said:


> First of all I'd like to say that I'm a hobbyist, not a professional photographer, and only recently did I get into flash photography. My current setup is 550D + 24-105L, but I'm getting one of the 5Ds (ii or iii) when the latter is available.



I have a pair of 430EX II's, and they're excellent. The 580EX II offers ~2/3-stop more light, which can make a difference especially if using large modifiers, but I haven't found my 430's to lack sufficient power. The other nice thing about the 430 is the faster recycle time - barring the use of an external battery pack with the 580, they're both running on 4 batteries, and the lower capacity of the 430EX II means it fills the capacitor faster. 

However, if you're considering the 5DIII, you might want to either hold off your decision or go with the 580EX II. The reason I say that (although I usually advise just buying what you need, today) is that if the rumor of the 5DIII/X using the 1D X's 61-point AF system (or even the 45-point AF of the previous 1-series) turns out to be true, it's probable that the 430EX II will not provide sufficient AF point coverage with the AF assist lamp (currently, a 580 is needed for full AF assist coverage with a 1-series, the 430 fully covers all AF systems except the 1-series).


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## tt (Feb 21, 2012)

If you're thinking about the 580 - how much more is it to start thinking about the Einstein?


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## Jamesy (Feb 21, 2012)

Although the 7D and 60D can control 430's or 580's, the use of a 580 on camera off camera via a cord can afford greater flexibility in placing the slaves as the 7D and 60D have a limited FOV in controlling slave flashes.

A buddy of mine who owns the 430EX II just bought a Yongnuo 565, which is a 580 EX II knock-off and he is very happy with it and it was only $150. As with all things eBay, YMMV.


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## Dylan777 (Feb 21, 2012)

I'm completely happy with 580 II. Great flash for inside the church and high ceiling. I got a used unit on craiglist - $310.

Good luck,
Dylan


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## Neeneko (Feb 21, 2012)

Depending on your budget, a pair of 430s will get you a lot more flexibility then a single 580, and a single 430 will probalby be strong enough for most situations you will encounter (and the ones where it is not, again, a pair will often be better anyway since a single bright source has its own problems).

Then again, I have to admit, this is not my domain since I tend to prefer monolights.


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## Jamesy (Feb 21, 2012)

430's do not support strobscopic/multi mode if that is of interest to you.


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## Michael_pfh (Feb 21, 2012)

I am happy with my 430 II which I prefer over the 580 II due to its smaller dimensions and lower weight. However, it's not weather sealed but assuming that most of your family reunions/ weddings take place either indoors or when it's not raining that aspect should not really matter to you.


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## Penn Jennings (Feb 21, 2012)

lexonio said:


> First of all I'd like to say that I'm a hobbyist, not a professional photographer, and only recently did I get into flash photography. My current setup is 550D + 24-105L, but I'm getting one of the 5Ds (ii or iii) when the latter is available. I'm mostly shooting general "walkaround" photography with some lean towards press photography (e.g. political meetings and etc.). I also shoot at weddings, family reunions, that kind of thing. So now I need a flash since many of these events tend to happen indoors, and I'm currently deciding between 430 and 580.
> 
> From the looks of it I'll have only one flash for the time being (I'm not a studio photographer, more of an action one), and 580 seems to be easier to operate. On the other hand it's much heavier than the 430 and costs more. Do you experience this additional weight problem, and do you feel that the price difference is justified in this case?



I hate to count other peoples money BUT...... If you have L glass and you going to purchase a new 5D why on Gods green earth would you get cheap and try to save $200 on a flash? You will have invested over $4,000 on a body and lens, you will use this flash for many years and you really want to try and save $200 on a flash? A 580 EX II w/battery pack will blow a 430 EX II away, it won't even be close in overall performance. A battery pack will only be another $50 for a "knock off". You will get 2 second recycle time for hundreds of shots, even when you do a full dump. You can shoot up to 3 times faster and have longer range with the 580 vs the 430. You will get 2 or 3 times more shots before replacing the batteries. It might not sound like much but I would miss shots from time to time with the 430. I almost never miss shots with the 580 w/battery pack. 

Just my 2 cents. 

EDIT: I should note that you are only using the flashes in direct mode, in small rooms and for short duration events, the difference is not that big. If you are using any type light modifier, bouncing, outdoors, large areas or long duration events the difference between a 580 w/battery pack and 430 can be huge.


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## Marsu42 (Feb 21, 2012)

Jamesy said:


> Although the 7D and 60D can control 430's or 580's, the use of a 580 on camera off camera via a cord can afford greater flexibility in placing the slaves as the 7D and 60D have a limited FOV in controlling slave flashes.



... at least, this is what the manual says. In reality, I was completely surprised by the fov the 60d does actually achieve - the only time my 430ex2 does not fire is when I accidentally cover the ir sensor with my thumb or it is completely blocked somehow else. The ir control strength at least of the 60D seems to be so powerful that it reflects from surfaces near it and triggers even the flash behind the camera.


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## Jamesy (Feb 21, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> Jamesy said:
> 
> 
> > Although the 7D and 60D can control 430's or 580's, the use of a 580 on camera off camera via a cord can afford greater flexibility in placing the slaves as the 7D and 60D have a limited FOV in controlling slave flashes.
> ...



I get great results INSIDE with Canon wireless. Are you shooting inside or out when you get great results?


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## Marsu42 (Feb 21, 2012)

Jamesy said:


> I get great results INSIDE with Canon wireless. Are you shooting inside or out when you get great results?



I should have made this more explicit of course - ir is ok when shooting inside or macro shots near and towards the earth and thus there are surfaces that seem to reflect the beam. Even leafs of a tree seem to work for that purpose (usually, I am holding my flash in the left hand next to the camera and use the internal flash for fill). However, I'd trade in the Canon ir system for radio controlled flashes anytime.


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## samthefish (Feb 21, 2012)

I agree that if you're going to do outside shots w/ modifiers the extra punch of the 580ii is worth it. With the 480 I found myself frequently having to move the flash very close to the subjects to fill with sunlit background.


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## gmrza (Feb 21, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> I have a pair of 430EX II's, and they're excellent. The 580EX II offers ~2/3-stop more light, which can make a difference especially if using large modifiers, but I haven't found my 430's to lack sufficient power. The other nice thing about the 430 is the faster recycle time - barring the use of an external battery pack with the 580, they're both running on 4 batteries, and the lower capacity of the 430EX II means it fills the capacitor faster.



Probably the biggest issue I have with the 430EX is the more limited head rotation, which is limiting when doing bounce flash. You cannot bounce a 430 above and behind you in portrait orientation, which to me has become a major issue.


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## pwp (Feb 21, 2012)

Canon speedlights are famously reliable and robust. I'd have absolutely no hesitation going for pre-owned if you are budget sensitive.
Yes, the 430ex is an excellent, surprisingly compact unit and definitely the right choice for a lot of people.

But I'd urge you to choose the 580ex or 580exII for a number of reasons... 

It has more power. You may not call on the full output every time you use it, but it's extra grunt will deliver at times when you're bouncing, which you should do when ever possible. And there's gmrza's observation that the 430EX has more limited head rotation. Irritating. 
The Yongnuo YN565 someone mentioned as a cheap alternative also loses Master mode, high speed sync as well as the ability to rotate the flash head 180 degrees in both directions. Dealbreaker.

If you use fill flash in high-noon conditions, you'll often need every atom of output you can lay your hands on. HSS chews through a lot more power than standard flash. 580 wins, especially with external power.

The 580 has the not to be overlooked option of adding an external power source. You'll need this if you like shooting fast or can't tolerate the long recycle times when doing full-power dumps when bouncing, using modifiers such as Gary Fong attachments, umbrellas, softboxes etc, or in full-sun fill flash situations. 

For external power, the options begin with aftermarket knockoffs of the Canon battery pack which takes 8 AA cells; readily available on eBay. The knock-offs are almost certain to disappoint. At the other end of the scale is the unbelievably durable, justifiably expensive Quantum Turbo series of batteries. This is what I have used for years. 

Link to flash output comparo: http://speedlights.net/speedlights-power-index/

As a great mentor of mine once told me, why not travel first class? Go with the 580. Use L glass. Shine your shoes. Give flowers.

Paul Wright


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## briansquibb (Feb 22, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> I have a pair of 430EX II's, and they're excellent. The 580EX II offers ~2/3-stop more light, which can make a difference especially if using large modifiers, but I haven't found my 430's to lack sufficient power. The other nice thing about the 430 is the faster recycle time - barring the use of an external battery pack with the 580, they're both running on 4 batteries, and the lower capacity of the 430EX II means it fills the capacitor faster.



In a same exposure comparison you will find that the 430 EXII at max will take at least as long to recycle as the 580EXII due to less % power being used by the 580EXII


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## wickidwombat (Feb 22, 2012)

pwp said:


> For external power, the options begin with aftermarket knockoffs of the Canon battery pack which takes 8 AA cells; readily available on eBay. The knock-offs are almost certain to disappoint. At the other end of the scale is the unbelievably durable, justifiably expensive Quantum Turbo series of batteries. This is what I have used for years.


I disagree about the knock off external battery packs
I have 4 yongnuo external battery packs at $46 each they are great filled with eneloops the flashes are good to shoot all day with no battery change and fast recycle time. they are a great matchup with the 580exii


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## Penn Jennings (Feb 22, 2012)

pwp said:


> For external power, the options begin with aftermarket knockoffs of the Canon battery pack which takes 8 AA cells; readily available on eBay. The knock-offs are almost certain to disappoint. At the other end of the scale is the unbelievably durable, justifiably expensive Quantum Turbo series of batteries. This is what I have used for years.
> 
> Link to flash output comparo: http://speedlights.net/speedlights-power-index/
> 
> ...



I have a knock off battery pack that I got for $50 and I have to say that it has performed as well as I could possibly hope for with my 580 EX II.

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0049JO71G/ref=oh_o03_s00_i00_details


With any knockoff Canon gear, you need to do some research. At a minimum read buyer reviews. EBay doesn't really support product reviews and often there is no product return. I'd recommend a site like Amazon where you can see objective user reviews. You will also have a 30 money return window. eBay is usually much more risk for slightly more savings in my opinion.


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## scotthillphoto (Feb 22, 2012)

What it really comes down to is do you need HSS (high speed sync) and using the flash as a master
On amazon you can get a Yongnuo 565 for 149
http://www.amazon.com/Yongnuo-YN-565EX-Speedlite-Flash-Canon/dp/B005HYMUX4/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1329877122&sr=8-1

and all that it is lacking is the two things I listed above. Its 469 to get ONE 580 EXII so you can buy two or three of the off brand flashes (just in case one dies or something) and you will still come out on top. I have a Yongnuo and it works great and I have off brand battery packs as well that work great with it. I do also have a 430EXII and with my past jobs I have used the 580EXII. To me it comes down to the HSS I need that at times but if you don't its a great alternative.


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## RC (Feb 22, 2012)

I too am a hobbyist with a 7D which can act as a master trigger. Without repeating others' comments too much, get a 580EX II for all the reasons already mentioned but mostly because it can act as a master where the 430s cannot. 

Trust me, if you think you are going to get into flash photography, you will want a second and possibly a 3rd flash. Get the 580 EX II first. I have 1 - 580 EXII and 2 - 430 EXIIs. I often use a 3 flash setup and most of the time I use the 580 as the master trigger (via an extra long ETTL cord, see link below).

Yes my 7D can fire all 3 of my Speedlights but I often don't use he master function on my 7D because I often place my slaves outside of the 7D's FOV. Also, as mention in the thread, the 430 head rotation is only 270 degrees, sometimes I wish one of my 430s was a 580 just for that reason. I love my 430s, but I love my 580 a little more.


A must have, get the 33 footer:
http://ocfgear.com/cords-for-canon-ettl/ettl-cord-extra-long/


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## wickidwombat (Feb 22, 2012)

Penn Jennings said:


> pwp said:
> 
> 
> > For external power, the options begin with aftermarket knockoffs of the Canon battery pack which takes 8 AA cells; readily available on eBay. The knock-offs are almost certain to disappoint. At the other end of the scale is the unbelievably durable, justifiably expensive Quantum Turbo series of batteries. This is what I have used for years.
> ...



most of the big hong kong based sellers have excellent service and accept returns and will replace faulty gear never had a problem with any of them


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## elflord (Feb 22, 2012)

Mendolera said:


> But by no means is the 430 a slouch and will be worlds different then the on-camera.


especially if he has a 5D


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## elflord (Feb 22, 2012)

lexonio said:


> First of all I'd like to say that I'm a hobbyist, not a professional photographer, and only recently did I get into flash photography. My current setup is 550D + 24-105L, but I'm getting one of the 5Ds (ii or iii) when the latter is available. I'm mostly shooting general "walkaround" photography with some lean towards press photography (e.g. political meetings and etc.). I also shoot at weddings,



Are you shooting the weddings as the official paid photographer, or are you a guest with a camera ? One thing to keep in mind is that it's a _faux pas_ to shoot with a flash when the official photographer is shooting the same scene, especially at critical moments (like the ceremony, the first dance, etc). 

In addition to a flash, you might want to add to your lens lineup with some faster glass (e.g. 50mm f/1.4, 85mm f/1.8)


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## pwp (Feb 22, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> pwp said:
> 
> 
> > For external power, the options begin with aftermarket knockoffs of the Canon battery pack which takes 8 AA cells; readily available on eBay. The knock-offs are almost certain to disappoint. At the other end of the scale is the unbelievably durable, justifiably expensive Quantum Turbo series of batteries. This is what I have used for years.
> ...



That's great. I'm glad someone has had success with the aftermarket battery packs. After a run of 3 DOA packs from different sources, I understandably gave up on them. 

But keeping on topic with the OP, my point was that 580ex has the useful advantage over the 430ex of accepting external power.

Paul Wright


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## wickidwombat (Feb 22, 2012)

pwp said:


> wickidwombat said:
> 
> 
> > pwp said:
> ...



Ouchies! wow 3! were they all yongnuo? or another brand. hope they gave you refunds


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## bycostello (Feb 22, 2012)

430 is a great flash that i use a lot... but lacks the power of the 580... my normal set up is 580 main light and 430 as key.... if i just had 1 flash it'd be a 580 (or Nissin 866)


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## lexonio (Feb 22, 2012)

Thanks everyone, I'll be getting the 580 it seems. I've been mostly concerned about the size and weight differences but as I see now it's negligible. HSS is a good thing to have, as I have told I'm a hobbyist and new to flash photography, but on paper this feature seems interesting, even if it's only useful when shooting at tele ranges. What's better is it being more powerful and having a master mode - I'm getting there, but maybe in the end I'll be using 2+ flashes. Thank you once again people, you've been very very helpful. I can't name everyone in this thread, but each and every post here has been helpful and influenced my decision. I'm happy to know that a community as awesome as this one exists


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## pwp (Feb 22, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> Ouchies! wow 3! were they all yongnuo? or another brand. hope they gave you refunds



No Yongnuos in the mix. They sound fine. I got one dud from DPP in Sydney, two from eBay sellers. Can't remember the brands. 
Refund was a simple matter from DPP. eBay sellers were not worth the time & trouble to follow up.

Now it's 100% Quantum Turbo. One SC and one T3. 100% dependable. Stunningly long life. Stunningly high price. Sigh...

Paul Wright


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## kdw75 (Feb 22, 2012)

Get the 580. I bought the 430ex II a while back and absolutely love it. So why would I suggest you get the 580? A couple of weekends ago I was doing some shooting at a friends wedding and quickly realized that in a larger room you need the extra power of the 580. I have also found it is very helpful in houses with high ceilings when you want to bounce your flash.


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## Dylan777 (Feb 22, 2012)

lexonio said:


> Thanks everyone, I'll be getting the 580 it seems. I've been mostly concerned about the size and weight differences but as I see now it's negligible. HSS is a good thing to have, as I have told I'm a hobbyist and new to flash photography, but on paper this feature seems interesting, even if it's only useful when shooting at tele ranges. What's better is it being more powerful and having a master mode - I'm getting there, but maybe in the end I'll be using 2+ flashes. Thank you once again people, you've been very very helpful. I can't name everyone in this thread, *but each and every post here has been helpful and influenced my decision. I'm happy to know that a community as awesome as this one exists *



+1. I love this site - I learned so much by reading the posts, especially from neuroanatomist  

Have fun with the 580EX II


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 22, 2012)

tt said:


> If you're thinking about the 580 - how much more is it to start thinking about the Einstein?



Perhaps double, once you include the stronger stand, larger modifiers, and a Vagabond Mini-Li battery pack if portability is important. 

But then...how much is good light - and enough of it - worth?


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## Jamesy (Feb 22, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> tt said:
> 
> 
> > If you're thinking about the 580 - how much more is it to start thinking about the Einstein?
> ...



Einsteins (or other PC Buff lights) vs Speedlites are two totally different animals. For a first flash I would always recommend a TTL capable Speedlite and then move onto studio strobes if that is where your photography takes you. The Speedlite is very portable and you will use it in situations you would never consider bringing an Einstein.


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## briansquibb (Feb 22, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> tt said:
> 
> 
> > If you're thinking about the 580 - how much more is it to start thinking about the Einstein?
> ...



Two 580EX on camera anyone?


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## Jamesy (Feb 22, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> Two 580EX on camera anyone?



Awesome!!!

Is that part of your wedding portrait kit?


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## briansquibb (Feb 22, 2012)

Jamesy said:


> Is that part of your wedding portrait kit?



That is my event kit - the two 580 each fire off at low power so recycle time is almost instantaneous


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## Jamesy (Feb 22, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> Jamesy said:
> 
> 
> > Is that part of your wedding portrait kit?
> ...


Right because twice the light sources equals, half the power on each strobe and therefore half the recycle time - nice solution.

Do the events you shoot have tall doorways? ;D


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 22, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> Two 580EX on camera anyone?



Nope. That seems to be an _off-camera_ cord, there, right? So, that's two 580EX off-camera. Not very far off camera, true, but nevertheless, off. :


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## briansquibb (Feb 22, 2012)

Jamesy said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > Jamesy said:
> ...



The umbrella folds  

The looks I get from the iPhone snappers is VERY amusing - and yes it lights up the stage nicely 

I am usually an acredited tog for the events and for some reason the officials have got to know me - must be my pretty face


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## briansquibb (Feb 22, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > Two 580EX on camera anyone?
> ...



Nitpicker ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D


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## Mappy (Feb 22, 2012)

I own the 430exII and love it for the pictures (mostly bouncing a ceiling).
Though next time I'd rather buy something else, because:
- doesn't rotate more than 90 degrees to the right, so you have to rotate left and flip
- changing settings takes too much time (slow buttons)
- no battery indicator


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## Caps18 (Feb 22, 2012)

I have the 580ex II and I haven't found the battery level indicator on it yet. I ran out of juice on Saturday and took a bunch of pictures trying to figure out why the flash wasn't working... :

I'm sure it works great, I just need to practice and learn a lot more about using the flash.


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 22, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> Nitpicker ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D



+1. you know me a little too well, methinks...


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## 7enderbender (Feb 22, 2012)

lexonio said:


> First of all I'd like to say that I'm a hobbyist, not a professional photographer, and only recently did I get into flash photography. My current setup is 550D + 24-105L, but I'm getting one of the 5Ds (ii or iii) when the latter is available. I'm mostly shooting general "walkaround" photography with some lean towards press photography (e.g. political meetings and etc.). I also shoot at weddings, family reunions, that kind of thing. So now I need a flash since many of these events tend to happen indoors, and I'm currently deciding between 430 and 580.
> 
> From the looks of it I'll have only one flash for the time being (I'm not a studio photographer, more of an action one), and 580 seems to be easier to operate. On the other hand it's much heavier than the 430 and costs more. Do you experience this additional weight problem, and do you feel that the price difference is justified in this case?




I can relate to that. I've been shooting quite a few political events lately ('tis the season...). I have a 580EXII, 430EXII and an old Metz 45. Camera is a gripped 5DII.

The nicest outcomes I get with the old Metz (obviously all manual). And it's actually quite comfortable with the old-style handle - at least for horizontal shots. The fastest and easiest, however, is the 580EXII. So that's been the weapon of choice lately.

The 430EXII is nice in that it is a bit smaller and lighter and under certain circumstances a bit more consistent (there have been plenty of controversial discussions around that so I'm not going into the details). BUT: the 580EXII has the extra power reserve should you need it and the buttons and the little wheel are just way better.

So, if this is truly a weight question I wouldn't bother and go for the 580. If this is a budget concern: the 430 is a very good flash. You could also consider the Metz 58 AF-2 which is usually cheaper as the 580 and offers pretty much the same features (has nothing to do with my Metz 45 mentioned above).

Those are pretty much the alternatives I guess. Or wait and see what a new 590EX (or so) may have to offer it's really released within the next few days. May also be a good time then to snag up a used 580EXII. Also: there's nothing wrong with the old 580EX predecessor I guess. Some folks actually prefer those.


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## lexonio (Feb 22, 2012)

By the way, I just ordered it and think of cancelling the order - don't you think it's feasible to wait for the next top-in-line flash to get it work during videos for additional light?


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## Jamesy (Feb 22, 2012)

lexonio said:


> By the way, I just ordered it and think of cancelling the order - don't you think it's feasible to wait for the next top-in-line flash to get it work during videos for additional light?


If the new one is announced then expect to see lots of 580's pop up on used sites, so it might be best to wait if you can. It is intriguing that the new 590 rumour makes mention of wireless but we have not heard much of that in recent camera rumours. If the new 5D3 has wireless flash support I will sell you my two 580 EX II 's for a good price


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## briansquibb (Feb 22, 2012)

7enderbender said:


> May also be a good time then to snag up a used 580EXII. Also: there's nothing wrong with the old 580EX predecessor I guess. Some folks actually prefer those.



I have one 580EXII and 4 580EX which I buy for the same price as a new 430EXII - the used 580EX has a switch Master/Slave/Off which I prefer to the dial up on the 580EXII

Whenever I see another 580EX at a good price I will buy it.

Brian

PS I also have a 430EX2 which I somtimes use as a backlight in manual mode or more often stick it on the G12


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## Jamesy (Feb 22, 2012)

Brian,

Can you control a 580classic from the camera the same as the newer 580ex2 allows you to?


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## pwp (Feb 22, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> 7enderbender said:
> 
> 
> > May also be a good time then to snag up a used 580EXII. Also: there's nothing wrong with the old 580EX predecessor I guess. Some folks actually prefer those.
> ...



I have 580ex and 580exII. I have to say I do have a strong preference for the 580ex Classic. It's simpler to operate and mine delivers more consistent exposures than the 580exII. On the plus side, the 580exII is more power efficient than the original and also recycles a little faster.

In a conversation I had at our local CPS I learned that red carpet photographers have a preference for the Classic. Not only are exposures more consistent, they are a good deal stronger than the 580exII, an important factor in the sometimes aggressive crush at some red carpet events. And missed shots means less income.

The 580exII has a deliberate, carefully calibrated break point where it attaches to the hotshoe. A bit like crumple and collapse zones in modern cars. The idea is that under extreme pressure the easily and cheaply fixed break point will snap instead of holding on, leading to potentially very expensive damage to the prism casing. My 580exII has broken twice, fixed cheaply the first time and then for free by CPS the second time. In my experience, this break point is much too weak. I hope the 590ex is stronger. 

Paul Wright


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## Rocky (Feb 22, 2012)

If Size, Weight and Budget are no problem, you should get the 580EX II. You want to have the most powerful flash you can get if you ever want to use diffuser or light box. You can make the 580EX II recycles very fast by using rechargeable battery and set it at 1/2 power when you do not need the power.


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## RC (Feb 23, 2012)

Jamesy said:


> lexonio said:
> 
> 
> > By the way, I just ordered it and think of cancelling the order - don't you think it's feasible to wait for the next top-in-line flash to get it work during videos for additional light?
> ...



...or the price of the 580 EXII might go up if the EOL rumor becomes true and the new 590 is significantly more money. If it were I, I'd grab a 580 now, learn it, use it, and enjoy it. You can always sell it or I'm sure it can be used as secondary flash with radio setup.

Too many unknowns with the next gen of Speedlights.


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## briansquibb (Feb 23, 2012)

Jamesy said:


> Brian,
> 
> Can you control a 580classic from the camera the same as the newer 580ex2 allows you to?


As a user of eTTL the answer is yes - but then I am not into twiddling all the options. I am not interested in the options - just how to get the picture I want. 

As I am into shooting fast the last thing I want to do is to have to fiddle while the shots pass me buy.

I treat my camera as a big P&S - I set the mode to M and the appropriate iso, shutter speed and aperture. With the 580EXII on top of a PW TT1 (gives auto HSS) I only have to adjust the flash exposure to get perfect pictures all the time.


When using multiflash if I need to be quick then I use single zone and move the flash stands in and out for fine tuning of the light levels with the key light being fixed as close as possible to the subject. My default key light is a 580EX on a stand with a 5ft shoot through umbrella. - use PW mini and flex to fire them nowadays alsthough when I was just doing mostly weddings I was using the Canon IR without too much problem. The Canon system is fine for basic usage but has its limitations.


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## Jamesy (Feb 23, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> Jamesy said:
> 
> 
> > Brian,
> ...


Thanks for the reply.

What I meant by control the flash from the camera is; on certain camera's starting with the 40D and 5D2 for instance, you can change flash settings on the camera LCD rather than having to change the settings on the flash. Is a 580c capable of receiving commands from the camera the same as 580ex2's are?


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## justsomedude (Feb 23, 2012)

I'd stay far away from the 580exII due to the arcing issue they have. I've fried my pair of 580's twice now due to this issue, and they are currently on another trip back to Canon service for repair.

Wait for the 590 which, should hopefully resolve this issue, since it was allegedly fixed in the 430EXII design.


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## ronderick (Feb 24, 2012)

I've learned a lesson after buying the 320 as a temp replacement for my stolen 580...

You can always tune down the power of the flash if you don't require so much light, but you cannot make it stronger even in times of DESPERATE need. :'(


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## lexonio (Feb 24, 2012)

Thanks justsomedude, I cancelled my 580 order, we'll see what 590 brings us. It's more logical since I'm planning to go for 5dmkiii, and I believe it will have radio flash control built in.

Thanks to you too ronderick, I've learned that more power is always better than less power


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## briansquibb (Feb 24, 2012)

It would be interesting to see the ratio of 580EX/EXII's that have this problem

We start with 2 - failed
My EXII, 4 EX - no failure

So far 

2 failed
5 no failure


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## Jamesy (Feb 24, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> It would be interesting to see the ratio of 580EX/EXII's that have this problem
> 
> We start with 2 - failed
> My EXII, 4 EX - no failure
> ...


Not sure if you mean this has turned into an impromptu poll but I'll bite:

My two 580EXII's are both fine and I bought them in 2008.
In my little Strobist community here in Toronto I have not heard of any failures related to Canon flash either.


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