# Image effects with EOS 7D possible ?



## revup67 (Feb 11, 2012)

While on a heavily shaded dirt hiking path the other day, I loaded my 15-85mm on the 7D with a tripod and had approximately 60 feet of dirt trail in the view finder at 18mm. I was attempting to create a "blurred trailing effect" from a cyclist but failed. Much like a stream of car lights at night when you slow the shutter speed down. I was using a nine stop Hoya ND400 filter with the lens and had the lens open for about 3 seconds. The exposure was decent despite the heavy contrast however the cyclist didn't appear in the image as he rode the 60 feet of trail. It was as if the event never happened. I finally got another cyclist after shortening the shutter speed to about 1/10th (see attached image) but he was a short blur within the 70 feet and not the effect I was aiming for.

Perhaps this is not do able in shaded daylight but if anyone has any ideas that would be great. Perhaps my 580 EX II using multi flash would resolve this? Open to any thoughts, this is new ground for me.

Actual 1/10s image attached


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## jwong (Feb 11, 2012)

revup67 said:


> Perhaps this is not do able in shaded daylight but if anyone has any ideas that would be great. Perhaps my 580 EX II using multi flash would resolve this? Open to any thoughts, this is new ground for me.
> 
> Actual 1/10s image attached



That would be a nice effect. I think you're right -- you need a lot more flash power. The ND basically turns this into a night shot. At night a long exposure with a flash on the subject at the end would get the trail. The same should happen in daylight with the ND, but you need enough flash to overpower the ND400.


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## gryphonphoto (Feb 11, 2012)

I think you're fundamentally misunderstanding why this doesn't work.

In a light trail whatever is causing the trail (in your example car headlights) is multi stops brighter than ambient and therefore leaves a trail through the photo because you're exposing for the headlights, which are moving and therefore "painting" a trail across the sensor.

In your photo you're doing completely the opposite, you've set the exposure for the entire scene, so the cyclist has the same amount of light as the rest of the photo.....but spread over a much larger area so he becomes effectively invisible.

There is a way you could do this but it would require hella planning!!!

You'd have to somehow get your cyclist to be about 5 stops brighter than ambient by covering him in some sort of massively light emitting clothing (and presumably shoot at dusk) then scatter enough flashs around the scene to bring up the environment to LOOK as if it was daylight.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Feb 11, 2012)

There is a trick using flash and 2nd curtain synch, but you might have to have some powerful flashes to do it outdoors.

http://oreilly.com/pub/h/1771


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 11, 2012)

The effect you've 'discovered' is the main reason I have 10-stop ND filters - shooting architecture. Interesting architecture is often found in urban settings with lots of foot traffic, or the architecture itself is a tourist attraction with lots of bystanders. The long exposures with a 10-stop ND effectively blur out/eliminate pedestrians, passing cars, etc.


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## revup67 (Feb 11, 2012)

(Neuro - I just got the 82mm 10 stopper yesterday - thanks for that great suggestion just waiting to use it.)

The example I mention with the headlights at night was merely to define an example. Sorry if I didn't clearly state, I was looking to achieve a similar effect under a different set of circumstances and believe it is possible

Perhaps I can re-emphasize as I've realized in essence I (may) already be doing this. Let's take water flow during daylight we've all seen this before (example attached to be clear). We all know we can get that nice blur with an ND in eliminating daylight, I'm trying to achieve the same effect with a cyclist as in this example I have shot. Night vs. day doesn't seem to matter. It would seem a)speed of subject and b)length of subject would be key factors I believe. Open to additional thoughts or putting me back on the right track in case I am now off course


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## gryphonphoto (Feb 11, 2012)

You're still misunderstanding, it works for water because the shot doesn't feature one molecule of water flowing through the scene once does it? The river is constantly flowing and, in effect, injecting MORE water INTO the exposure, but because the water goes in different directions at different times it creates that 'dream-like' effect.

The only way the 2 scenarios are even vaguely similar is if you take a photo of a cycle RACE where 80 different cyclists go through the scene during the exposure.

The quote that sums it up for me is the "ND eliminating daylight" - that's not what the ND is doing in your example, it's enabling you to use a longer shutter speed than would otherwise be possible, on a bright day even using ISO100 and f/22 you might still be getting 1/4 for a correct exposure which wouldn't be enough to blur running water, by using the ND that enables you to use 1/2 (1 stop ND) 1sec (2 stop) 2sec (4 stop) and so on. This example is in no way whatsoever analagous to your example of a single cyclist going through a sceen, the CORRECT equivilency would be, as someone stated above, panning, using the ND to allow you to pan for 1 sec WITH the moving cyclist blurring the background but with a (relatively) static subject.


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## revup67 (Feb 11, 2012)

Gryphon, first thanks for all the assistance. Just to be clear my statement of the ND eliminating daylight was merely an abridged summary of


> it's enabling you to use a longer shutter speed than would otherwise be possible, on a bright day even using ISO100 and f/22 you might still be getting 1/4 for a correct exposure which wouldn't be enough to blur running water..



The water example I provided was at F32, ISO 100 and 1/3s not far off from what was deemed as not enough to blur running water

In either case, it seems it all boils down to the contrast of ambient light and/or injection of a constant flow of new subjects into he same scene.


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## bigblue1ca (Feb 11, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:
 

> The effect you've 'discovered' is the main reason I have 10-stop ND filters - shooting architecture. Interesting architecture is often found in urban settings with lots of foot traffic, or the architecture itself is a tourist attraction with lots of bystanders. The long exposures with a 10-stop ND effectively blur out/eliminate pedestrians, passing cars, etc.



Neuro care to elaborate on your collection, brands/models? Never thought of doing this, but makes perfect sense.


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## DavidRiesenberg (Feb 11, 2012)

Another way to put it is that the cyclist occupies a given area of the frame for only say 1/20th of a second. The rest of the exposure (2.95 seconds) is filled by only the background. And since both the background and the cyclist are illuminated by the same light and nothing more, the background wins.


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## tt (Feb 11, 2012)

Your ratio of biker brightness to background brightness has to be improved - either freezing the biker in place with an angled flash so it's angled/flagged/snooted to just hit the biker, or similar with a bright torchlight

Take the example of a light trail. You're shooting at the same position and the cyclist has a headlamp on and some bike lights. 
For a 1/10th second image there will be a black background, and short light trails
For a 5 second image there would be a black background with long bike light trails across the whole shot. 

Would the cyclists clothes create a light trail in the midnight dark shot? No. The clothes are as bright as the ambient background. 
Change it to daytime - set the background to be properly exposed for a 1/10th second exposure. The clothes aren't giving out or reflecting any more light, so at best you might see a slight blur. 

You're trying to fight against the stronger ambient light. What you could do is wait till dusk, then use a strong flashlight and do a strobed image of the cylist in different parts of the shot, or have a constantly on flashlight directed at the cyclist as he goes along the path, to create the brigher biker blur, and maybe add flashes of strobe to freeze in place.


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## revup67 (Feb 12, 2012)

> Another way to put it is that the cyclist occupies a given area of the frame for only say 1/20th of a second. The rest of the exposure (2.95 seconds) is filled by only the background. And since both the background and the cyclist are illuminated by the same light and nothing more, the background wins.



David that was very well stated. I did a 3 second exposure (not posted) but the cyclist was nowhere to be found (as Neuro suggests) it was as if I taken a photo with no one in it. Indeed "the background wins". Seems this whole project is hindering on a much brighter light source against a darker background to create such a trail or as Gryphon mentioned an injection of bikers for the whole 3 seconds or reverting to a panning scenario.

tt - when you reference strobe I believe you are suggesting using the multi flash feature? that's actually a cool idea with the flash light..never thought of that one.

neuro -


> The effect you've 'discovered' is the main reason I have 10-stop ND filters - shooting architecture. Interesting architecture is often found in urban settings with lots of foot traffic, or the architecture itself is a tourist attraction with lots of bystanders. The long exposures with a 10-stop ND effectively blur out/eliminate pedestrians, passing cars, etc.


 - yes indeed I bumped into this effect by accident and a great idea for different uses of the 10 stopper.


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## Z (Feb 12, 2012)

If I were trying to create the effect you're going for, without flash, I would keep my camera on a tripod and take a burst sequence of shots, then combine them in photoshop. If you don't have photoshop or an equivalent PP software package, I guess this is a no go.

In my opinion this would look better than your proposed (and technically very difficult) single cyclist 'trail'.


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 12, 2012)

bigblue1ca said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > The effect you've 'discovered' is the main reason I have 10-stop ND filters - shooting architecture. Interesting architecture is often found in urban settings with lots of foot traffic, or the architecture itself is a tourist attraction with lots of bystanders. The long exposures with a 10-stop ND effectively blur out/eliminate pedestrians, passing cars, etc.
> ...



For 10-stop NDs, I have a B+W 77mm and a Schneider Optics 82mm. The former is readily available, the latter is the only 82mm 10-stop screw-in filter I know of (Schneider is the parent company of B+W), and is only available from 2filter.com.


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## dstppy (Feb 12, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> For 10-stop NDs, I have a B+W 77mm and a Schneider Optics 82mm. The former is readily available, the latter is the only 82mm 10-stop screw-in filter I know of (Schneider is the parent company of B+W), and is only available from 2filter.com.



Wow. Innavigable just got redefined. That site have an index?


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 12, 2012)

Pretty bad site, I know. For the 82mm 10-stop, just search for "68-043082" on this page.


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## bigblue1ca (Feb 12, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> For 10-stop NDs, I have a B+W 77mm and a Schneider Optics 82mm. The former is readily available, the latter is the only 82mm 10-stop screw-in filter I know of (Schneider is the parent company of B+W), and is only available from 2filter.com.



Thanks!


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## revup67 (Feb 12, 2012)

> Wow. Innavigable just got redefined. That site have an index?



That site needs a bit of help. I research elsewhere then call their 800 to see if they have it. Excellent top notch service however.


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