# Leaked photo of 5DIII/X to be 38MP ?



## Mr.Magic (Feb 17, 2012)

Someone on the dpreview forum did some calculations and I just wanted to share this:

http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1032&thread=40642634

Based on the size of the LCD screen, the size of the zoom area on the back of the camera it might be 38MP...

For me personnaly, I hope this isn't true!


----------



## wickidwombat (Feb 17, 2012)

hehe thats the best rumor i've read all day
but i think he forgot to factor in the proximity of the moon to the earth and the effect that will have on the pixels.... 

i'm still hoping the surrent 22mp 61 pt AF etc rumor is on the money

i wouldnt mind having a look at a high mp camera but i feel the 22mp rumor speced one will deliver a solid workhorse in any situation


----------



## Tijn (Feb 17, 2012)

Nice post he made there... I don't quite get it though. On my 60D, when I zoom all the way in on an image, the size of the crop indication is basically identical to that of the 5D-? photo as he recovered it. Obviously, the 60D is 18Mpx. And its screen is the 3-inch 720 x 480 LCD that he's using for his calculations.

See included great quality webcam image of my 60D lcd screen when fully zoomed in on an image, and compare... (The horizontal lines are just the curtain-type things I took a picture of to make this comparison)





(reference)


----------



## pakosouthpark (Feb 17, 2012)

ahah that is way too deep! too much time in his hands..


----------



## nightbreath (Feb 17, 2012)

If the calculations are right the camera on the photo might be not the 5D Mk II successor.

5D is one of the most popular cameras in the world for professionals and enthusiasts and being not more than 28 MPx makes it great all-around camera capable to deliver good image quality in different situations.

I don't think many people will like the idea of 5D Mk III using a 38 MPx sensor, because it makes the camera too "narrow" for everyone and leaves an empty gap in product line.

The fact that 5D is so popular makes sense to improve the current one instead of replacing it.


----------



## marekjoz (Feb 17, 2012)

People in Canon must have a lot of fun with it.


----------



## torger (Feb 17, 2012)

That calculation does not work, the navigation window is not scale-correct, at least not if I compare my 7D and 5Dmk2.


----------



## maciej.urbanski (Feb 17, 2012)

Interesting fact:
I've just looked at proportions of zoom indicator on my 550D @ maximum zoom. Seem very similar...

I keep on dreaming of 1DX sensor in new 5D, then.


----------



## Ricku (Feb 17, 2012)

Lets hope he is wrong.


----------



## SomeGuyInNewJersey (Feb 17, 2012)

And I thought I was getting obsessed.

At this stage I dont care whether its 22mp, 45mp or 346mp... Higher mp is good for me and not great iso is bad for me too (for different types of pics), so higher iso performance and lower mp also good for me for certain circumstances.

At this stage I just want them to release one (or preferably both) of the new 5d type models so I can just buy one.

I want to upgrade to full frame and I want it to be one of the new ones not the 5d2... so for me at this stage I'll probably get whichever they release first. Either one would be great for me with pros and cons for both.

Ooops I only meant to type first line of this, guess the fact I kept going shows I AM obsessed.

By the way for those ready to pounce and slap me down with comments about the physics of 346mp due them being so super and me being so stupid... 346mp was a joke...

Of course if you want to call me stupid for other reasons... go right ahead


----------



## marekjoz (Feb 17, 2012)

SomeGuyInNewJersey said:


> Of course if you want to call me stupid for other reasons... go right ahead



And you feel like being stupid for other reasons?


----------



## awinphoto (Feb 17, 2012)

pakosouthpark said:


> ahah that is way too deep! too much time in his hands..



I was thinking the same thing... while I welcome more MP, i also cant see when I'd ever print that big on a regular occasion, but I suppose there could be time when it's nice to have.


----------



## awinphoto (Feb 17, 2012)

torger said:


> That calculation does not work, the navigation window is not scale-correct, at least not if I compare my 7D and 5Dmk2.



His math is working on the basis of assumption and a hypothesis. It may not be 100% scale correct, more of a guideline, but i'm sure whatever they do to this camera will make it a worthy successor and competitor to the D800. Also, 30MP to 38MP is not as big as a jump, perspective wise, as 6MP to 12MP, so even if it's 30MP, that may only be an inch and a half off when compared to full OOC resolution.


----------



## Mooose (Feb 17, 2012)

Not sure where this clown came up with his 38MP number but I did a similar analysis of the lcd screen bird picture several weeks ago and came up with 100MP+ as I stated on another thread here:



Mooose said:


> I've ascertained from the picture of the LCD display of the bird that this prototype camera has at least 100MP! This is based on the following assumptions:
> 
> 1. the LCD has at least a pixel count of the 7D (921,600 pixels) and has approximate dimensions of 1174 x 785 pixels (3:2)
> 2. the professional Canon photographer is not a pixel peeper (he's not viewing at over 1:1)
> ...


----------



## RedEye (Feb 17, 2012)

3 Cheers for 38MP! - Actually, nice job for subject originator, a fun way to investigate an otherwise unrevealing 'leak' photo. 

I think as the end of the day, no body really cares how many pixels the new camera has. We are guaranteed that it will have more than the 5Dii and that no matter how many it has, it'll have a better image quality, ISO, ect. Hopefully they'll nix the AA filter as an option the way nikon did. Eitherway, fun for all.


----------



## jm345 (Feb 17, 2012)

The LCD screen on that camera looks similar to the "Wide" LCD on some of Canon's point and shoots like the SX 230 that is sized more to accomodate HD video than 3:2 stills.

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/digital_cameras/powershot_sx230_hs


----------



## WildBill (Feb 17, 2012)

Tijn said:


> Nice post he made there... I don't quite get it though. On my 60D, when I zoom all the way in on an image, the size of the crop indication is basically identical to that of the 5D-? photo as he recovered it. Obviously, the 60D is 18Mpx. And its screen is the 3-inch 720 x 480 LCD that he's using for his calculations.



You need to remember to take into account a full size sensor versus a crop sensor. The same size minimum zoom indicator box (for lack of a better term) implies 1.6^2 or 2.56 times as many pixels for a FF camera vs. a crop. If the box was truly the same size as the 60D, that would imply the camera to be about 46Mpixels.


----------



## Lyra Video Productions (Feb 17, 2012)

lol, "enhance" 
Harrison Ford in Blade Runner: Voice Command Interface


----------



## marekjoz (Feb 17, 2012)

Lyra Video Productions said:


> lol, "enhance"



Blade Runner was intented to be in the future and it's nothing compared to what CSI achieves NOW


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Feb 17, 2012)

There have been people trying to analyze the camera since it came out, this is old news. Depending on the assumptions they made, the numbers are all over the map, you can make it any number you want.


----------



## SomeGuyInNewJersey (Feb 17, 2012)

With how blurred the little square is that he used to calculate the portion of the zoom screen I think the error margin that measurement is pretty high, so even if it is to scale he could be out a wide margin when he bases his calculations on it.


----------



## Mooose (Feb 17, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> you can make it any number you want.



Even 12 gigapixels?!?


----------



## marekjoz (Feb 17, 2012)

Mooose said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > you can make it any number you want.
> ...



Why not? There are more particles on the surface, so why not?


----------



## Mooose (Feb 17, 2012)

Tijn said:


> Nice post he made there... I don't quite get it though. On my 60D, when I zoom all the way in on an image, the size of the crop indication is basically identical to that of the 5D-? photo as he recovered it. Obviously, the 60D is 18Mpx. And its screen is the 3-inch 720 x 480 LCD that he's using for his calculations.
> 
> See included great quality webcam image of my 60D lcd screen when fully zoomed in on an image, and compare... (The horizontal lines are just the curtain-type things I took a picture of to make this comparison)



On my 7d you can zoom in past 100% crop. Also, I believe my 7d has much higher resolution than 720x480 (they claim 900,000+ pixels in the specs). The new 5d may even have an even higher resolution than the 7d.


----------



## Tijn (Feb 17, 2012)

WildBill said:


> You need to remember to take into account a full size sensor versus a crop sensor. The same size minimum zoom indicator box (for lack of a better term) implies 1.6^2 or 2.56 times as many pixels for a FF camera vs. a crop. If the box was truly the same size as the 60D, that would imply the camera to be about 46Mpixels.


Comparing a FF 18MP image and a crop frame 18MP image, the both images are exactly the same size. Their previews will be exactly the same size, and the crop indicator box on the image preview will be exactly the same size. I do not see your point.


----------



## Tijn (Feb 17, 2012)

Mooose said:


> On my 7d you can zoom in past 100% crop.


Really?
I wasn't aware. Anyhow, if that's the case, it might as well be the case for my 60D and also for the 5d mark 42. It would still invalidate this guy's 38MP conclusion.



> Also, I believe my 7d has much higher resolution than 720x480 (they claim 900,000+ pixels in the specs). The new 5d may even have an even higher resolution than the 7d.


As can be read in the discussion from the original topic, the 720x480 is for tricolor pixels. Each consisting of three subpixels. You have 920K subpixels, the 60D has 1.04 mil subpixels. (Which, coïncidentially, is 720x480x3 = 1036800)


----------



## Mooose (Feb 17, 2012)

> Also, I believe my 7d has much higher resolution than 720x480 (they claim 900,000+ pixels in the specs). The new 5d may even have an even higher resolution than the 7d.


As can be read in the discussion from the original topic, the 720x480 is for tricolor pixels. Each consisting of three subpixels. You have 920K subpixels, the 60D has 1.04 mil subpixels. (Which, coïncidentially, is 720x480x3 = 1036800)
[/quote]

Ah. Didn't know that. Then maybe also you can't zoom in past 100% crop on the 7d.

Thanks.


----------



## Mooose (Feb 17, 2012)

As Tijn pointed out I think the OP's analysis is wrong (as was mine because I had the LCD size wrong). The mystery camera is zoomed into about 1/7th - 1/8th of the horizontal size. If the screen is 720*480 and he is fully zoomed in then the dimensions would be (assuming 1/8th) - 5760 x 3840 or 22MP (!).

The screen could have a higher resolution than 720*480 and the tester may not be fully zoomed in.

Edit: OOPS! Fixing my calcs again I get between 38MP - 50MP.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Feb 17, 2012)

Mr.Magic said:


> Someone on the dpreview forum did some calculations and I just wanted to share this:
> 
> http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1032&thread=40642634
> 
> ...



This was done a long time ago on FM and the easiest figure to come up with by far was 30MP (with a 23-39P range of by far the most likelihood). That said that are plenty of potential gotchas, of course. Nobody bother to replicate the method using a 5D2 yet to see what number they would come up.

Anyway going but this, one would expect a 30MP or so 5D3, with about 6fps and souped up 7D AF.
In many ways that sounds more believable to me than the 22MP, 7fps, 1DX AF but so far every single rumor on this site says 22MP so I guess it depends who you trust more.


----------



## Viggo (Feb 17, 2012)

If the 5dX/III gets "1d x af" or even 61 points with less sensitivty, and 22mp and 7 fps, why would anyone buy a 1d X? And I am completely aware of how a 5d2 and a 1d mk4 compares, and although I used every single functon of the 1d4, the center point of the 5d is is still better in many ways, MUCH cleaner low iso files, the only thing the 5d lacks is the specs that seem to indicate what the 5dX would look like, but then the benefits of the 1d X will be washed away, and for half the price, I think a lot of people who HAD to buy a 1d for certain areas of use, like me, are more than willing to sacrifice AF- tracking sensitivty and live with one or three dual-cross points compared to 5...

To me, the 5d specs looks waaaaaay off, considering what the 1d X brings to the table. 22mp at 7 fps with 61 point AF, no way.... If the 1d X hadn't been released yet, then yeah, but after seeing that, how can they make the 5d THAT close, they have learned that the VEERY hard way from destroying the 1ds3 sales with the 5d2....


----------



## awinphoto (Feb 17, 2012)

Viggo said:


> If the 5dX/III gets "1d x af" or even 61 points with less sensitivty, and 22mp and 7 fps, why would anyone buy a 1d X? And I am completely aware of how a 5d2 and a 1d mk4 compares, and although I used every single functon of the 1d4, the center point of the 5d is is still better in many ways, MUCH cleaner low iso files, the only thing the 5d lacks is the specs that seem to indicate what the 5dX would look like, but then the benefits of the 1d X will be washed away, and for half the price, I think a lot of people who HAD to buy a 1d for certain areas of use, like me, are more than willing to sacrifice AF- tracking sensitivty and live with one or three dual-cross points compared to 5...
> 
> To me, the 5d specs looks waaaaaay off, considering what the 1d X brings to the table. 22mp at 7 fps with 61 point AF, no way.... If the 1d X hadn't been released yet, then yeah, but after seeing that, how can they make the 5d THAT close, they have learned that the VEERY hard way from destroying the 1ds3 sales with the 5d2....



Point taken but the same could have been said about the D700 and D800 and nikons flagships... To the point, there are those who will want and need the size/build/etc of the 1d series and will never look to the 5d series... and visa versa... there will be 1d shooters needing a quality baby brother they can take with them that's less conspicuous vs the 1d seires but be able to shoot with it without missing a beat. Plus Canon knows the market share of photographers, even pro's who can afford or will shoot with 1dx's are far smaller, even a fraction of those who shoots 5d series and with the gantlet of the D800 being thrown and most definitely sony will throw out their version, so canon needs to do something to keep 5d shooters 5d shooters.


----------



## almograve (Feb 17, 2012)

I believe we have to keep in mind who bought the 5DMKII. I don't have numbers obviously but I have the feeling that the majority of the sales where made to 

1.Wealthy enthusiasts that are mostly amateurs with money.
2. Sales in the video industry and video amateurs
3. PRO as a secondary or third camera for the "dirty" work.

If they want to maintain the success with the 5dMKIII they have to focus mainly on the first 2 groups and also please a new group of people: owner of the mkII that want to renew.


The first one, doesn't care about high MPs, they don't want to deal with the heavy size of the files generated by a 40MP camera.
Owners of the mkII could care less about MPs, they know they have enough. They have been waiting to upgrade, and they want high ISO, shoot fast in low light. However, Canon needs to be appealing enough and avoid the "good enough" effect.

Second group is a all different word, I have very little knowledge of video but clearly high MP is not a must. They want low noise, high ISO I believe.

Third group, they can probably pay for the 1Dx and they'll get the hight MP to go with the 1Dx and they won't care about a camera too close from what they already have. But only Canon knows what % they are in overall sales. So yes, I guess they would want the high MPs and they will by for sure the 1Dx if they get this high ISO with the mkIII.

This brings use back to a 22MP high ISO camera, with slower images per second than the 1DX and even software slowed down, autofocus needs to be as sharp as the 7D but not more.

To me, the problem will come if they release a high MP in the range of the Nikon D800. This will be a mess. I won't know what to buy cause I don't want high MP because it's useless for the group 1 where I stand (besides saying to your "point and shoot" friends that you have a 40MP camera and they will be a lot more impressed than the guy having a 1Dx) . And I won't buy a 4 year old camera (MKII) even though it's a great camera. I'm not buying something that will disappear from the market a few month later even if they keep it at first.

Or Canon could please us all by release 2 cameras, 5DMKIII with hight MP and a 5Dx with low noise high ISO!

I just don't understand why they are waiting so much. I hate it. They are really lucky that Nikon went the high MP way.


----------



## Viggo (Feb 17, 2012)

awinphoto said:


> Viggo said:
> 
> 
> > If the 5dX/III gets "1d x af" or even 61 points with less sensitivty, and 22mp and 7 fps, why would anyone buy a 1d X? And I am completely aware of how a 5d2 and a 1d mk4 compares, and although I used every single functon of the 1d4, the center point of the 5d is is still better in many ways, MUCH cleaner low iso files, the only thing the 5d lacks is the specs that seem to indicate what the 5dX would look like, but then the benefits of the 1d X will be washed away, and for half the price, I think a lot of people who HAD to buy a 1d for certain areas of use, like me, are more than willing to sacrifice AF- tracking sensitivty and live with one or three dual-cross points compared to 5...
> ...



So you are willing to buy the 1-series for double the price to double the size and weight of your camera?

Nikon separated the D4 and the D800 with resolution/low light quality, that is a very good call. I need mp's, get the d800 for your studio, I need to able to shoot in the dark and fast action, I'll get the D4.

If the 5d and the 1d X have basically the same res, same AF, same sensor overall, I can't see how they could defend the 1d X for potential customers. I mean, although the 1-series are better weathersealed, the 5d is still weathersealed, and I have used it in grim conditions without a hitch.

I'm arguing this way to get some valid points, because I am a 1-series shooter for a reason, but if the 5d gets THOSE specs, then my needs are very much filled, and for double the price, hmmm, well..... 

How hard do you throw your camera in to waterpuddle to defend double the price?


I for one, hope that when trying them side by side, the answer will become VERY clear, otherwise I'm downgrading, and I think a lot of people like me will......


----------



## awinphoto (Feb 17, 2012)

Viggo said:


> awinphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Viggo said:
> ...



Well while I cannot speak for others, I would suppose the difference between those two are similar to those between the 60D and the T3i, except, the are the exact same AF, exact same sensor, ISO, etc... but the 60D you get the ergonomics, FPS, robust body (kinda compared between the two), etc.. If i made my living with the 1d series, you betcha i'd be getting the 1d series replacement. I dont know you or your photography business/model/clientele, assuming you are professional to begin with. I shoot professionally and have a rough idea of who buys what cameras, and leaving aside the rich enthusiasts amateurs who get the best gear just because they can, the professional market who get such cameras ($2000+) are the general base of professional photographers and depend on those cameras. Those who get the 1d series either needs those bodies to perform a function that "lesser" cameras cannot do, which was AF, ISO, integrated batt grip, weather sealing, dedicated buttons, no mode dial, dual cards, insane shutter durability, voice dictation, status, etc... 

Now lets be practical here... IF the new camera is "only" a 22MP or such sensor, the 5d wont have the FPS speed, wont have the 204KISO capabilities, i'd be supprised but grateful for 51K ISO to be honest... weatersealing, not as much... AF, maybe a dumbed down 61 or maybe an older 45 pt AF from previous cameras... no insane shutter durability, voice dictation, batt grip integrated, dual cards (or if it does, it may be a crippled cf + sd such as the D800...) There is enough features to keep agencies, newspapers, magazines, freelancers to get this camera without thinking twice. 

Now lets jump off the deep end and pretend the camera comes with a 30+ MP camera... drop the ISO capabilities down to 25k and FPS to 4. There are trade off's everywhere and professionals such as you (presumably) and me will have to weigh what matters most to us and what direction we want to go towards.


----------



## briansquibb (Feb 17, 2012)

Viggo said:


> they have learned that the VEERY hard way from destroying the 1ds3 sales with the 5d2....



The 1Ds3 is a very nice camera - I am pleased they got it wrong - a used 1Ds3 is selling for about the same as a new 5DII - the image IQ is so good from the 1Ds3

I have been surprised how much bigger the jpg is from the 1Ds3 when compared with the 5DII


----------



## wickidwombat (Feb 18, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> Viggo said:
> 
> 
> > they have learned that the VEERY hard way from destroying the 1ds3 sales with the 5d2....
> ...


seriously over here they are still few and far between and expensive as hell I have the chance to buy a used 1Ds3 for $4500 before the1Dx was announced but decided to get 2 5D mk2 instead how much are used 1D4 going for over there?


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Feb 18, 2012)

Viggo said:


> To me, the 5d specs looks waaaaaay off, considering what the 1d X brings to the table. 22mp at 7 fps with 61 point AF, no way.... If the 1d X hadn't been released yet, then yeah, but after seeing that, how can they make the 5d THAT close, they have learned that the VEERY hard way from destroying the 1ds3 sales with the 5d2....



Although if it actually does turn out to be 22MP and not something higher then I think it would not be unreasonable to expect 7fps and 1DX AF, I mean why not? The Nikon will have 6fps in DX mode with grip, 4fps 36MP, Nikon's best AF. If the new 5D3 is 22MP, 4-5fps, 7D AF, not so good, especially when you consider it needs to look good not just now nut 2-3 years from now. That would leak pretty sad IMO. SOme might just hold on to their 5D2s.


----------



## briansquibb (Feb 18, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > Viggo said:
> ...




My 1D4 cost 2700 ukp, 1Ds3 was 1900 ukp

Not many 1Ds3 here - and even less of a market for them. I was lucky in that mine was a studio spare with about 40k actuations. So even at 500 a week (about what I take on average) it will last a long time - especially when the 1D4 is popping some of those (1D4 was about 20k actuations)

The real benefit over the 5D is the pro AF plus 5fps makes it a good walkabout camera - especially with the 70-300L on the front. The bonus is the better IQ


----------



## psolberg (Feb 19, 2012)

awinphoto said:


> Point taken but the same could have been said about the D700 and D800 and nikons flagships... To the point, there are those who will want and need the size/build/etc of the 1d series and will never look to the 5d series... and visa versa... there will be 1d shooters needing a quality baby brother they can take with them that's less conspicuous vs the 1d seires but be able to shoot with it without missing a beat. Plus Canon knows the market share of photographers, even pro's who can afford or will shoot with 1dx's are far smaller, even a fraction of those who shoots 5d series and with the gantlet of the D800 being thrown and most definitely sony will throw out their version, so canon needs to do something to keep 5d shooters 5d shooters.



The nikon D4 runs circles around the D800 and D700. Not sure what you mean.


----------



## avian (Feb 19, 2012)

psolberg said:


> awinphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Point taken but the same could have been said about the D700 and D800 and nikons flagships... To the point, there are those who will want and need the size/build/etc of the 1d series and will never look to the 5d series... and visa versa... there will be 1d shooters needing a quality baby brother they can take with them that's less conspicuous vs the 1d seires but be able to shoot with it without missing a beat. Plus Canon knows the market share of photographers, even pro's who can afford or will shoot with 1dx's are far smaller, even a fraction of those who shoots 5d series and with the gantlet of the D800 being thrown and most definitely sony will throw out their version, so canon needs to do something to keep 5d shooters 5d shooters.
> ...



I rather have a camera that is able to walk in a straight line that would make dolyshots that much easier


----------

