# Canon 5D MarkIII & 1Dx - 1080p/60fps???



## Archangel72 (Mar 29, 2012)

I want to share my thoughts & questions with all you people of Canon Rumors.
Who knows, maybe some of you knows the answer to my question.

I'm curious...

1x Digic IV is required for processing 1080p at /24/25/30fps (Canon 5DMark II)

1x Digic 5+ (aprox. 17x faster than Digic IV) is required for processing 1080p at /24/25/30fps (Canon 5DMark III)

2x Digic 5+ (on the side + 1 Digic 4 for mettering) is required for processing 1080p at /24/25/30fps (Canon 1Dx)

C'mon Canon... :

O.K. so you have improved video codec in 5dMarkIII/1Dx series, and that's great, but...
With improved codec, you delivered extreme processing speed, particularly in 1Dx (double power od 5dMarkIII which is already 17x faster than 5DMarkII).
I hope all that power is not implemented for shooting stills only?! 

So my question is how much raw processor power does 1080p/60fps video really needs? 

Archangel72


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## nentraC (Mar 29, 2012)

I think the MagicLantern guys could answer your question if they manage to Hack the DIGIC V+ procesor.

Or you culd make a timlapse of the milky way couse the answer could be writen in the stars. Meh ok i know.


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## K-amps (Mar 29, 2012)

It's in Canon's philosophy to cripple functionality as a basis for product differentiation. Many idosyncrasies like this can be explained off with this Philosophy.

The rest is just Dogmatic behaviour, like why not support higher than Class-10 speeds in SD or why not have USB 3 in a 2012 model...

Sometimes we just need to accept (and love) what we have.


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## nvsravank (Mar 30, 2012)

I do not think it is the processing power that is limiting the output. I think what would be limiting it is the storage speed.

I think the decision to not support faster speeds etc has more to do with crippling video so that they can "differentiate" their upcoming video camera.

My 2 cents


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## bchernicoff (Mar 30, 2012)

I doubt it is a storage issue, probably more of a chip read-out issue. To read 22mp worth of data 60 times a second requires some serious data buses from the sensor to the Digic chips. Canon did improve these, but maybe they still are not fast enough for 1080p60. For the 720p60 they might be using sensor line skipping to get the speed/size reduction they need, but at the expense of quality.


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## awinphoto (Mar 30, 2012)

Forgive me, it's still early in the morning here where i am, but you guys are griping that the 5d3, a 3500, doesn't have the same features that the much more expensive C300 or the rumors 4k camera will/may have? Really? I dont think the 5d series (after the mark 2) was ever intended to take over as a professional video recorder... It's a DSLR with video capabilities... There are people complaining that they even put video in the 5d series let alone advance it to where it is now... They cant win if they do, they cant win if they dont...


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## nightbreath (Mar 30, 2012)

awinphoto said:


> Forgive me, it's still early in the morning here where i am, but you guys are griping that the 5d3, a 3500, doesn't have the same features that the much more expensive C300 or the rumors 4k camera will/may have? Really? I dont think the 5d series (after the mark 2) was ever intended to take over as a professional video recorder... It's a DSLR with video capabilities... There are people complaining that they even put video in the 5d series let alone advance it to where it is now... They cant win if they do, they cant win if they dont...



So why Nikon do the same? They don't have the 1080p60 either. Or is this part of contract they have with Sony?


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## -zero- (Mar 30, 2012)

Part of the "extra" processing power goes to reduce moire and rolling shutter but the other reasons are definitely a possibility


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## awinphoto (Mar 30, 2012)

nightbreath said:


> awinphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Forgive me, it's still early in the morning here where i am, but you guys are griping that the 5d3, a 3500, doesn't have the same features that the much more expensive C300 or the rumors 4k camera will/may have? Really? I dont think the 5d series (after the mark 2) was ever intended to take over as a professional video recorder... It's a DSLR with video capabilities... There are people complaining that they even put video in the 5d series let alone advance it to where it is now... They cant win if they do, they cant win if they dont...
> ...



Cant speak for nikon, their technology or their relationship with sony. Maybe the technology is there for a DSLR to do it, maybe not... maybe it's a conspiracy to make you pay more for another camera, maybe not. As far as i'm aware and concerned, this whole video thing, to canon is a happy accident. Probably threw it in and got phenomenal response and so they refined it and perfected it (less moire/rolling shutter/cleaner files)... But it is what it is. Not speaking for them or giving excuses... But thinking the 5d is a camera first, camcorder second, i dont think they are trying to screw anyone in particular, it's just that, if they can get it so it packages well within a dslr and not redesign everything just to accommodate it the video system, great, we will see video and it's improvements in the 5d series... but if they have to redesign the chips. processors, busses, etc just for video, then you have to really weigh if it's worth it.


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## JR (Apr 21, 2012)

I think they could do it but they wont. Canon is doing it with the 1dc which has the same processor as the 1dx so they could do it for sure. However they feel we should pay 15k for such features! Not!

They are creaping their camera. I think this is only because we have two groups now deciding on design features: video and still. With all the models they have out, heck they need something to differentiate right...

:-[


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## akiskev (Apr 21, 2012)

Sony Nex can do 1080/60p at 28mbps but Canon 5D3 can't. Go figure...
I don't buy the crap about sensor readout or processor speed. It's a 2012 high end electronic product, it has to be able to do 1080/60p at a decent bitrate.

Canon says digiv5+ is 17x faster than digic4. I wanna see this 17x increase in calculations do something useful in real life.


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## JR (Apr 21, 2012)

akiskev said:


> Sony Nex can do 1080/60p at 28mbps but Canon 5D3 can't. Go figure...
> I don't buy the crap about sensor readout or processor speed. It's a 2012 high end electronic product, it has to be able to do 1080/60p at a decent bitrate.
> 
> Canon says digiv5+ is 17x faster than digic4. I wanna see this 17x increase in calculations do something useful in real life.



Exactly!


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## Archangel72 (Apr 21, 2012)

Is there any chance of support 60fps at 1920x1080p by firmware/software upgrade?
We have been waiting for 1Dx for too long, Canon could reward our patience. :


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## RunAndGun (Apr 21, 2012)

This is coming from a television photographer (and I'm probably gonna get blasted for this)...

I think people are forgetting that these are still cameras FIRST with video capabilities/features. I own two 5DMKII's and a 5DMKIII(plus probably $10k-$12k in Canon still glass) and i do not, have not and don't care about shooting video with them. Don't get me wrong, it's great that they can and do and I know A LOT of people using them professionally on the video side. And if requested to by a client, I would too. But these are still cameras and people are getting up in arms like Panasonic or Sony took a $40k-$50k HD camera and now only allow it to record miniDV instead of HDCAM or DVCProHD. It's not that bad guys. My two HD cameras total north of $90k(bodies only) and neither one does 1080/60p. Granted, I'm not shooting movies, but it's not hurting me either.


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## Musouka (Apr 22, 2012)

Chuck Westfall is touting 1080P60 and Clean HDMI as distinguishing features in the 1DC in this interview so I won't hold my breath for those.

NAB 2012: Chuck Westfall talks about the Canon C500 and EOS 1D C


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## stevenrrmanir (Apr 22, 2012)

For video, get the Panasonic HDC-TM900 for $800

it does 1080/60p at at 28 Mbps (an apperture of F 1.5)

why don't you people get a DEDICATED video camcorder for video if you want video quality?


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## pete vella (Apr 22, 2012)

I believe the sensor will overheat. 1dc has better sensor cooling.


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## tamahome5555 (Apr 22, 2012)

stevenrrmanir said:


> For video, get the Panasonic HDC-TM900 for $800
> 
> it does 1080/60p at at 28 Mbps (an apperture of F 1.5)
> *
> why don't you people get a DEDICATED video camcorder for video if you want video quality?*


Interchargable lenses.. + with stills shooting if you feel like it.


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## stevenrrmanir (Apr 22, 2012)

I am a photographer, not a videographer... for video, I get my videobag - what is another 1kg of weight?

get the Canon HF10 if you want to add you Canon lenses to it!


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## sach100 (Apr 22, 2012)

I think the issue is it seems like 5d3 has got the hardware to do 1080p @60fps but for some reason i.e. intentional or otherwise canon chose not to implement it. I don't see how having additional video features would harm a stills photographer. 
The only justification i could see is if adding 1080p/60fps is gonna significantly cost more then that will definitely hurt sales of 5d3 particularly those guys who are interested in stills only may not upgrade. Alternatively, Canon is obviously protecting it's other lines of products.


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## april (Apr 22, 2012)

K-amps said:


> It's in Canon's philosophy to cripple functionality as a basis for product differentiation. Many idosyncrasies like this can be explained off with this Philosophy.
> 
> The rest is just Dogmatic behaviour, like why not support higher than Class-10 speeds in SD or why not have USB 3 in a 2012 model...
> 
> Sometimes we just need to accept (and love) what we have.



we are the customers in here we should be the one mandating them what they need to do to please us and not them limiting us to what we deserve.


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## Musouka (Apr 22, 2012)

As the buyer has a bargaining power so does the seller. If the seller can get away with not including features and still manage to sell truckloads, why bother? I'm not saying I like it but this is the reality. They are businesses and want the best bang for their buck (just like we do) and hence the price-feature conflict.

All sellers want to maximize profits by doing the least they could get away with. Just look at the iPhone 4S and the new iPad. They are incremental updates but still managed to sell very well. If the seller is happy with their market position and think that they are going to maintain it, they will do less. With a few exceptions, they will only become more aggressive when they are trying to increase/regain their market share so they will see this as a long-term investment. Unfortunately, being at the top tends to instill a sense of pride and overconfidence.


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## Archangel72 (Apr 22, 2012)

I think that it's very unfortunate for piece of hardware that cost aprox. 3500$ for 5DMarkIII, and 6800$ for Canon flagship camera 1Dx, that those new models can't produce 1080/60p, while Panasonic HDC-TM900 as mentioned before here in this post by user "stevenrrmanir" can provide that feature for $800.

Now, why Canon thinks that 1080/60p is dedicated only to very expensive cams, while Panasonic and Sony can include that feature in their cams, even at low entry models.
It's old news for them, but it's not even a fresh news for Canon???
Sorry videographers, amateurs and professionals, Canon thinks that you don't need to have feature in your newest Canon DSLR for"only" 6.800,00$, no, no... it's very, very expensive feature, you know? :
Do we have to wait another 3-4 years for Canon SLRs that will get that feature, while other manufacturers will probably offer 4k, or 8k at 120fps?
1080p/60 is really that irrelevant for all Canon users?
Really?
If so, than why did Canon started that game of implementation video features into DSLR still cams in the first place?
They started the "game", but now they don't have enough "steam" to keep up with Panasonic and Sony?
I really, really hope, that Canon users will find the "light at the end of the tunnel" with release of future firmware/software update...
C'mon Canon, you can do it, just close your eyes and JUMP !!!
Do it already... :

Don't get me wrong here, I now it sounds harsh, but it's for users sake, old, and new ones (myself included) that will walk "that way" choosing Canon as their "weapon of mass destruction" in the world of stills and video.


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## Musouka (Apr 22, 2012)

Canon's flagship camcorder (the $1350 VIXIA HF G10) can't produce 1080P60 either. It seems the company thinks that should be reserved for the very high end. That's why I bought a TM900 for $799 last October for my trip to Japan. The HF G10 is the king of low-light in the camcorder category but the the Panasonic quality was more than adequate for my needs. I spent the difference to partially fund the kickass Tokina 11-16 for my 7D ;D

That said, the TM900 won't give you the DOF of a 35mm sensor like the 5D2 or Mark III, you can't change the lens and because of microphone mount location (on the side) and the wide-angle lens, the Rode Dead Cat will be visible in the video. I wish they had the the cold shoe in the same location as the HS900.


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## simonxu11 (Apr 22, 2012)

Canon put the metering system from T3/1100d into 5D3, what do expect from them?? It's Canon!!
And loyal Canon users always respond "there's nothing wrong with it, it just works" or "if you want such feature buy the 1D series", that's what Canon love to hear!


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## JurijTurnsek (Apr 22, 2012)

canon is really lagging behind in the 1080p60 game... even their professional line of camcorders hasn't got it, what gives?


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## psolberg (Apr 22, 2012)

I'd settle for decent 30p that is closer to true 1080p than what the 5DIII delivers than 60fps of mush.


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## preppyak (Apr 22, 2012)

Archangel72 said:


> I think that it's very unfortunate for piece of hardware that cost aprox. 3500$ for 5DMarkIII, and 6800$ for Canon flagship camera 1Dx, that those new models can't produce 1080/60p, while Panasonic HDC-TM900 as mentioned before here in this post by user "stevenrrmanir" can provide that feature for $800


Can your TM900 take stills at 5000x3000? Can it take them at 6fps or 10fps? Can it produce a depth of field even equivalent to f/3.5? Can it handle shooting in the near dark and produce a relatively clean image? Can it's footage be used immediately out of the camera? Does it allow me to customize color profiles that make it easier to grade in post? 

I own one, I know the answer is no to all of those questions. It's not an apples to apples comparison. More like apples to concrete. Canon already has some minor issues with camera's overheating on longer shots, 1080/60 would probably magnify that. Not to mention it could cause recording to drop if the buffer rate isn't up to par. So, if they can't implement in cleanly, they wouldn't do it at all. Check the reviews for Sony's DSLR's (well, DSLT's), they all have big issues with overheating when recording video due to the 1080/60. The A55 was notorious for that. 1080/60 doesn't do you any good if you can't even get the shot

It's why the new Canon cine cameras have completely different internals. To be able to record and process 1080/60 or 4k, you can't have so many pieces so close all overheating. A firmware upgrade probably isn't enough without it causing issues.


Musouka said:


> Canon's flagship camcorder (the $1350 VIXIA HF G10) can't produce 1080P60 either.


Nor does the XA-10, or any of the XF cameras as far as I know. And since I use those frequently for work, I can tell you that I don't miss the 60fps ever. It's really only something you need in action shooting, and then, you want the tiniest camera you can get so its portable. That's where the TM700/900 win out. But, I'm able to carry my 60D with a lens or two AND my TM700 with me wherever I go. My 60D will never match the convenience of the TM, my TM will never match the look of the 60D. I ultimately need both


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## chrysek (Apr 22, 2012)

Canon said that even its the same body they had to solve over heating issues, so I think thats one of the reason why 1Dx will not have 1080p at 60fps  or 4k video. (((

Probably another is the price tag, if they can collect 15k and get away with it why would they include this in 7k camera or 3,5k camera for that matter? Its pure economics for them, if no one will be willing to spend 15k for 1Dc they will lower the price hopefully.

Strange, 5d mark ii was so popular because it offered something that was not there in other cameras at that performance, quality and price range. Now they did raise the bar at least on financial scale so low budget/free projects will not be able to jump on this unfortunately. I think canon is aiming at different markets at this moment.

I did use my 5d mark ii to make a documentary, I got paid nothing, I certainly will not be able to get 1Dc at that price point to do the same, and so many video enthustiasts will be in the same boat, and unfortunately shelling 7k for 1Dx will not even help.

Oh well. In my opinion canon raised the bar to high for folks like myself. I did preorder 1Dx, waiting for it patiently but just getting agrevated how long canon is desceving us with releasing it. They anounced all other cameras, whats the point if they cant deliver squad?


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## Musouka (Apr 22, 2012)

preppyak said:


> Musouka said:
> 
> 
> > Canon's flagship camcorder (the $1350 VIXIA HF G10) can't produce 1080P60 either.
> ...



Agreed. I carry my camcorder in the top compartment of my Tarmac 5788 bag. I guess Canon not putting 1080P60 in their camcorders is also related to overheating issues. Panasonic received some criticism for putting a fan in the TM700. Some complained of the fan noise in quiet environments. The company said they improved the design with the TM900 to make it quieter (I don't know if there are any design improvement in the newer X900M). Editing 60P footage might be a bit of a headache depending on the software you use.


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## chrysek (Apr 22, 2012)

pete vella said:


> I believe the sensor will overheat. 1dc has better sensor cooling.



It will but I think because of 4k video and not 60fps 1080p  could be wrong on this


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## jlev23 (Apr 22, 2012)

seriously id settle for 48p, why has 60p become such fascination?
coming from shooting film, we would normally use frame rates like 36fps, 40fps and 48fps.
if we wanted real slow motion we would bring in a special mos camera and shoot 96 or 120fps.
60fps was never a go to frame rate...
im sure our 5d's are capable of 40-48fps.


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## Rofflesaurrr (Apr 22, 2012)

There is absolutely no reason the Canon 5D MkIII should not be able to record 1080p @ 60fps. The Digic V has sufficient processing power. 1080/60p would most likely have to be limited to IPB compression though, as ALL-I would require a sustained write speed of about 23MB/sec. 

Has anyone taken a look at the Sony a77?

It's a $1400 body with a 24.3MP sensor.
It records 1080/60p/60i/30p/24p and does so with an inferior processor to the 5D3.

It's simply a limitation of firmware. Canon purposely crippled the camera to protect their higher end models (which most considering the 5D3 can't afford anyway). It's not like people in the professional market would stop buying C300s, C500s, and 1DCs if the 5D had more advanced video features. The pros are still going to buy the dedicated cinema cameras for the expandability, advanced manual controls, and I/O features (HD-SDI, XLR, Genlock, Timecode).

And yes, I realize the 5D3 is a photo camera first, but 1080/60p is not something that would handicap, or take away from its photo abilities. It wouldn't even cost extra!


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## marvinhello (Apr 22, 2012)

Rofflesaurrr said:


> There is absolutely no reason the Canon 5D MkIII should not be able to record 1080p @ 60fps. The Digic V has sufficient processing power. 1080/60p would most likely have to be limited to IPB compression though, as ALL-I would require a sustained write speed of about 23MB/sec.
> 
> Has anyone taken a look at the Sony a77?
> 
> ...



Datarate wise, I believe 5D3 can handle 1080/60p without any problem, 1D C records 1080/60p at 180Mbit ALL-I, same can be achieved in 5D3, the only issue would be sensor overheat, a friend from Japan told me that 1D C internal was redesigned completely to cope with the immense heat and dataflow of 4K recording.


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## JurijTurnsek (Apr 22, 2012)

jlev23 said:


> seriously id settle for 48p, why has 60p become such fascination?
> coming from shooting film, we would normally use frame rates like 36fps, 40fps and 48fps.
> if we wanted real slow motion we would bring in a special mos camera and shoot 96 or 120fps.
> 60fps was never a go to frame rate...
> im sure our 5d's are capable of 40-48fps.



not a lot of people "come from shooting film". and not a lot of people go out filming slo-mos with special cameras...


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## K-amps (Apr 23, 2012)

Canon is getting lazy and greedy. First signs of an empire on decline. They should have woken up when the D7000 came... but they were too drunk on the sales of the 7D/5dii. Those cams were game changers and ahead of their times.... the 5diii was a very small improvement (leaving AF aside) over the 5dii, I don't shoot video, but giving people RAW out/ 1080p @ 60 would have kept in track with how far ahead the 5d2 was in it's time. Sadly they got greedy, priced it too high and crippled it... the Market will teach them soon. 

I hope ML can come up with a "fix" for the 5d3 like they fixed the 5d2... For the sake of all those that were loyal to Canon.


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## Renato (Apr 24, 2012)

K-amps said:


> Canon is getting lazy and greedy. First signs of an empire on decline. They should have woken up when the D7000 came... but they were too drunk on the sales of the 7D/5dii. Those cams were game changers and ahead of their times.... the 5diii was a very small improvement (leaving AF aside) over the 5dii, I don't shoot video, but giving people RAW out/ 1080p @ 60 would have kept in track with how far ahead the 5d2 was in it's time. Sadly they got greedy, priced it too high and crippled it... the Market will teach them soon.
> 
> I hope ML can come up with a "fix" for the 5d3 like they fixed the 5d2... For the sake of all those that were loyal to Canon.




It is all marketing, or you can can call it greedy. I would call it st*!!.. 
CANON CAN DOIT! They did it for 7D three years ago, ok it is only 18MP at 50 and 60 fps at 1280 x 720.


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## Musouka (Apr 26, 2012)

jlev23 said:


> seriously id settle for 48p, why has 60p become such fascination?
> coming from shooting film, we would normally use frame rates like 36fps, 40fps and 48fps.
> if we wanted real slow motion we would bring in a special mos camera and shoot 96 or 120fps.
> 60fps was never a go to frame rate...
> im sure our 5d's are capable of 40-48fps.



Careful what you wish for 

Advance press screenings of 48fps The Hobbit ‘disappoint’ (EOSHD)


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## ramon123 (Apr 26, 2012)

Can't Canon release a firmware that can give the 5D Mark III 1080p 60fps?


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## K-amps (Apr 26, 2012)

ramon123 said:


> Can't Canon release a firmware that can give the 5D Mark III 1080p 60fps?



Ofcourse they can... but then what will Magic lantern guys do after that, sit on their rears and do nothing?


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## agwynn4787 (Apr 12, 2014)

I have been considering buying the 5d MarkIII, but the only thing holding me back is the lack of 1080p/60fps. I have a 5d mkii and canon glass and equipment. I'm thinking about just buying a d3300 with a 50mm lens to get the 1080p/60fps, or maybe the new Sony A7s which will probably be less than the 5dmkiii and have 4k capability with all the full hd frame rates. It's also a full frame camera.
I really like Canon, but I can't justify paying over 3000 for a camera that does not have something it definitely should. Hope they upgrade the firmware to include 60fps before I buy something else.


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## 3kramd5 (Apr 14, 2014)

K-amps said:


> the 5diii was a very small improvement (leaving AF aside) over the 5dii.



Sorry, i find that exceedingly funny. Leaving aside the paramount major upgrade, it's a small improvement. That's like complaining that setting aside the hybrid engine, the hybrid version of a car is a minor upgrade over the gas one.


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## StudentOfLight (Apr 23, 2014)

agwynn4787 said:


> I have been considering buying the 5d MarkIII, but the only thing holding me back is the lack of 1080p/60fps. I have a 5d mkii and canon glass and equipment. I'm thinking about just buying a d3300 with a 50mm lens to get the 1080p/60fps, or maybe the new Sony A7s which will probably be less than the 5dmkiii and have 4k capability with all the full hd frame rates. It's also a full frame camera.
> I really like Canon, but I can't justify paying over 3000 for a camera that does not have something it definitely should. Hope they upgrade the firmware to include 60fps before I buy something else.



You are free to buy whatever you want. There's no need to stick with Canon's offerings if you think you've found a product made by another manufacturer that better meets your requirements.


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## Tugela (Apr 24, 2014)

Rofflesaurrr said:


> There is absolutely no reason the Canon 5D MkIII should not be able to record 1080p @ 60fps. The Digic V has sufficient processing power. 1080/60p would most likely have to be limited to IPB compression though, as ALL-I would require a sustained write speed of about 23MB/sec.
> 
> Has anyone taken a look at the Sony a77?
> 
> ...



There is a reason. The 5D is designed to use the hardware encoder in the DIGIC 5 chip, and that encoder does not do H.264 60p. If you want hardware encoding at 60p you need the DIGIC 6 or DIGIC DV 4 chips, which the 5D3 does not have.


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