# Comparing 6D with 5D3



## Sharper100 (Sep 23, 2012)

After comparing several key specifications between 6D and 5D3, below is my summary on how the two FF bodies compare (at least on paper):

MP: 20.3 vs. 22.3	= 5D3 is slightly better
FPS: 4.5 vs. 6.0	= 5D3 is 33% faster
Processor: Same Digic 5+	= Tie
Metering: Same 63-Zone	= Tie
ISO: Same Range	= Tie
AF Points: 11 vs. 61 = 5D3 is “a lot” better
AF Center Point:	-3 vs. –2 EV	= 6D is 33% more sensitive in low light
Max. Shutter Speed:1/4000 vs. 1/8000	= 5D3 is 1-stop faster
Max. Sync. Speed:	1/180 vs. 1/200	= 5D3 is slightly faster
Silent Shutter:	Same = Tie
Shutter Cycle:	100k vs. 150k	= 5D3 has 50% longer shutter life
View Finder:	97% vs. 100%	= 5D3 is slightly better
LCD: 3.0” vs. 3.2”	= 5D3 is slightly better
Exposure Comp:	Same +/- 5 EV	= Tie
AE Bracketing:	Same +/- 3	= Tie
Cards: 1 SD vs. SD+CF	= 5D3 is better
Custom Modes:	C1,C2 vs. C1,C2,C3	= 5D3 has 1 extra Dial Mode (C3)
AFMA: Same = Tie
HDR: Same with 3 Exp.	= Tie
Multiple Expos:	Same 9 max.	= Tie
Scene Intel. Auto:	Same = Tie
Built-in Wi-Fi:	Only in 6D	= 6D is better
Built-in GPS:	Only in 6D	= 6D is better
Size: 6D ~ ¼” Smaller	= 6D is slightly smaller
Weight: 27.2 vs. 33.5 oz	= 6D is 19% lighter 
Current Price($):	2,100 vs. 3,000	= 6D is $900 less

Obviously 6D is a “mini 5D3” with slightly less features that can be bought at $900 less than the current 5D3 price on eBay. The main difference between the two specs (at least to me) is the AF systems. 5D3 uses the 1DX Pro system, while 6D uses a simpler system that has a more sensitive center point, which is a huge improvement over the older 5D2.

Therefore, for me the decision is should I spend $900 more to have the Pro AF in 5D3, or save the money and get the smaller and lighter 6D which would be great using the Center Point focusing (lock focus and re-compose) ………It may be an easy decision for some, but I am still debating!! Of course, both prices may drop also, but the gap probably stays about the same.

What do others think?


----------



## wickidwombat (Sep 23, 2012)

You are not giving enough weight to important things the difference between a 97 % and 100% viewfinder is massive also it doesn't look to me like the 6d has the same awesome programs le dof button the FPS difference I s actually massive just use a 5d2 side by side with a mk 3 the 5d mk3 AF is simply awesome and blows the doors off anything that is not a 1dx yes the 5d3 is well worth the extra money IMO


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 23, 2012)

Sharper100 said:


> AF Center Point:	-3 vs. –2 EV	= 6D is 33% more sensitive in low light



EV, like stops, is log2. So, not 33% more sensitive, the 6D works in half as much light. 

But of the two, I'd still pick the 5DIII.


----------



## rocketdesigner (Sep 23, 2012)

Headphone Jack: 6D NO 5D3 YES = Buy the 5D3


----------



## Sharper100 (Sep 23, 2012)

Thanks for the response, wickidwombat.

I agree that comparison is not quite that simple; as some items do carry more weight than others, based on what is important on one's shooting needs. So, your points are well taken.

When I pull the trigger to upgrade from my crop sensor XSi to a FF, and spend the mega bucks, naturally I expect the new camera to be quite capable and useful for every situation. I do a lot of landscape, fair amount of indoors low-light, and some events photography (indoor concerts). Regarding the AF system, would you think 5D3's system is easy to understand and use, and would it be hugely advantageous over 6D's super-sensitive center point low-light AF?

Also, another question I have, which really applies to both cameras, is that since they don't have pop flash, how would you manage the highly back-lit subjects without a fill flash (that is if you don't have an external flash with you). I am a bit concerned with spot metering the main subject, which could wash-out the back ground (i.e. would lose the nice blue sky background on a sunny day).

Thanks again.


----------



## Sharper100 (Sep 23, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Sharper100 said:
> 
> 
> > AF Center Point:	-3 vs. –2 EV	= 6D is 33% more sensitive in low light
> ...



Thanks for that. This is a great forum, as I learn something new every day.


----------



## compupix (Sep 23, 2012)

The 6D sensor is just 35.8mm x 23.9mm. 
The 5D III's is 36mm x 24mm.
I don't know how significant that difference would be to you (or me.)


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 23, 2012)

The important thing, is can you take good photos with it. Many of the features in the 5D Mark III are for advanced users and would go unused on upgraders from P&S or Digital Rebels. 

The 6D has a MSRP almost $1500 less, and it will drop just as initial prices always drop after the initial crowd gets theirs. If I haden't snagged one of the $2750 5D Mark III's from Adorama, last week, I'd be interested. I really see little advantage to the 5D Mark III for my photography, but I do like to wait for hands on experience and not just buy on specification promises. I would be expecting that like my 7D, I could see the larger AF points in low light.


----------



## Sharper100 (Sep 23, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> The important thing, is can you take good photos with it. Many of the features in the 5D Mark III are for advanced users and would go unused on upgraders from P&S or Digital Rebels.
> 
> The 6D has a MSRP almost $1500 less, and it will drop just as initial prices always drop after the initial crowd gets theirs. If I haden't snagged one of the $2750 5D Mark III's from Adorama, last week, I'd be interested. I really see little advantage to the 5D Mark III for my photography, but I do like to wait for hands on experience and not just buy on specification promises. I would be expecting that like my 7D, I could see the larger AF points in low light.



I am sure that I would be using most of the features that the new camera would offer, whether it is the 6D or 5D3. That is one of the reasons for me to upgrade at this time. What I am mainly debating is how much better (or more useful) is 5D3's 61-point AF system over 6D's simple one. Even though there are other spec differences between the two cameras (which are very important to others, such as the FPS and VF), to me the difference in the AF systems is where "most of" the price difference is at (i.e. about $900 gap). Am I the only one here who thinks that way?

So again, if all things were equal (at least for the sake of this question), would I miss 5D3's Pro AF system for many situations, if I went with the 6D and saved the $900? Saving money is always important, but when I upgrade and make this investment, I don't want to lose on an important/essential feature.

Thanks for your feedback.


----------



## RC (Sep 23, 2012)

Don't forget ergonomics and button layout. Myself coming from a 7D, it would be awkward going to the smaller joystick less 6D. Personally I like the larger body, even the 60D feels a bit small. 



Sharper100 said:


> ...Current Price($):	2,100 vs. 3,000	= 6D is $900 less



$3400 + for 5D3 at reputable Canon authorized dealers.


----------



## RC (Sep 23, 2012)

compupix said:


> The 6D sensor is just 35.8mm x 23.9mm.
> The 5D III's is 36mm x 24mm.
> I don't know how significant that difference would be to you (or me.)



I would sure like to understand the reason for the 6D's sensor size and what negatives if any it may have.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 23, 2012)

Sharper100 said:


> After comparing several key specifications between 6D and 5D3, below is my summary on how the two FF bodies compare (at least on paper):
> 
> FPS: 4.5 vs. 6.0	= 5D3 is 33% faster



this is actually a HUGE difference, if you shoot action you'll realize that the 1.5 extra fps can make a tremendous difference

i bet it has much better buffer performance too which might make a huge difference as well



> Custom Modes:	C1,C2 vs. C1,C2,C3	= 5D3 has 1 extra Dial Mode (C3)



quite useful

also I bet the 5D3 video is better, although who knows how they manage to use the 20MP sensor, amybe they use it like the 1DX does....

the 6D doesn't have the side buttons or joystick either

6D has worse sealing "drip proof" sounds worrisome even for light rain

6D probably has longer mirror black out

Myself, I'd go for 5D3 for 100% sure.


----------



## bbasiaga (Sep 23, 2012)

Well, I believe the spec for the 5DMKIII reads 'approximately' 36x24mm. But even if it doesn't the 6Ds sensor is still 99% of the area of the MKIIIs. That is not a whole lot to worry about. There is certainly no meaningful crop factor to worry about. 

I was researching an upgrade much as you are now. I had resolved myself to get the 6D as it was just what I needed/wanted for an upgrade to my 5Dc, UNLESS I could get the MKIII on one of those Ebay deals. Well, it happened so now I have the MKIII. 

Basically, the advanced AF in the MKIII really shines in AI Servo mode, tracking moving objects. I haven't even begun to understand all the servo modes and tweaks that can be done. It is amazing compared to how Servo mode works on my 5 and 3yr old cameras. For one-shot, the nice thing about it is that you don't HAVE to focus and recompose...there is likely a cross type point near what you want in focus when you have it framed the way you want. This is nice when using fast glass (say less than f2.8 at reasonable subject distances), because the DOF can be so thin that upon recomposing you shift the focal plane to a place you don't want it to be. 

The custom functions and extra buttons are certainly nice to have. Particularly if you constantly change a lot of modes and settings. I don't typically, so I still have to figure out how best to deploy those features. I'm sure in time I will use them. 

Only you can know what is best to do with your money, but for me, the MKIII at $2800 was a no brainer over the 6D at $2100. At $3200-3500...not so much. Now, that said, I already have all the glass I need. If you don't shoot where AI servo is very important to you, and you need or want more glass, I'd say save the money and get the 6D. You'll get stellar images (assuming it is as good as other Canon bodies in the field) and can have some cash for extra gear. 

-Brian


----------



## Haydn1971 (Sep 23, 2012)

I'm really warming to the 6D as a prosumer level full frame camera... As a casual user, yes, super duper AF would be nice, but ain't essential, better low light AF to me is useful as I'm no expert at photography and occasionally have trouble, especially as I were spectacles, practically blind in my left eye and never able to manually focus. Initial prices for a 6D & 24-105 kit is £2500, so could be down to £2200 by the new year, which is looking a good deal for me, especially if I keep my 450D, for use with my 10-22 & 70-300


----------



## elflord (Sep 23, 2012)

Sharper100 said:


> Thanks for the response, wickidwombat.
> 
> I agree that comparison is not quite that simple; as some items do carry more weight than others, based on what is important on one's shooting needs. So, your points are well taken.
> 
> ...



The stand-out change in the 5DIII is the improvement to the AF system. Also you get the faster frame rate. As a 5DII owner who doesn't shoot action, I passed.

While the 6D doesn't have the 5DIII's AF, and isn't a sports camera by any stretch, it is quite usable. The 5DII with its "unusable" AF was the camera of choice for many wedding photographers before the 5DIII came along and there were options from competing vendors and Canon (1D series, 7D) with vastly more advanced AF.

Given what you shoot, I don't see a compelling advantage to the 5DIII.


----------



## DzPhotography (Sep 23, 2012)

I shot with the 6D on Photokina. I liked it. I like the 5DIII more and the 1Dx even better, but still, I liked it...


----------



## Musouka (Sep 23, 2012)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> the 6D doesn't have the side buttons or joystick either



Some of the side buttons were relocated to the right, but some are gone which is a bummer. The joystick is now embedded in the wheel, which is an implementation I prefer as it can free up space for more physical buttons. The removal of the side buttons is puzzling, however. It's like Canon designed the layout for an articulating screen but decided not to include it at the last minute.

5D3 owners are still left with the extremely expensive option of the WiFi grip which adds unnecessary bulk and doesn't double up as a battery grip. Canon should just discontinue that and just sell a WiFi dongle instead but I doubt that would happen.


----------



## pz-photography (Sep 23, 2012)

Sry, its a bit off topic but WHY THE HELL does it say "AE Bracketing +/- 3 EV) in almost every report I read? You can bracket up to 7 shots +/- over 8 EV, thats a lot! I was confused when I read that the 5D III had only +/-3 beacuse I thought its not better vor HDR than my 7D, but +/- 8 stops is a lot. Although I had the 6D in my handy on tuesday, I didn't check if its the same with the 6D. But it's not ok to write "AE Bracketing +/- 3EV", because it would mean its the same as for example the 7D where you can only take 3 shots up to +/- 3EV, thats it. With the 5D III its the same if you want to take 3 shots, but you shouldn't leave out that you can get a whole more EV range when you push up the shots. Whats your opinion on that?


----------



## Phenix205 (Sep 23, 2012)

5D3 is no doubt a more capable camera. It seems to me that 6D will give you the best bang of buck for now. The real question is what feature matters most to you. If the extra sensitivity of the center focus point is more important given your shooting conditions, then go with 6D.


----------



## DzPhotography (Sep 23, 2012)

Phenix205 said:


> 5D3 is no doubt a more capable camera. It seems to me that 6D will give you the best bang of buck for now. The real question is what feature matters most to you. If the extra sensitivity of the center focus point is more important given your shooting conditions, then go with 6D.


I really want to try that out for concerts...


----------



## Meh (Sep 23, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> You are not giving enough weight to important things the difference between a 97 % and 100% viewfinder is massive also it doesn't look to me like the 6d has the same awesome programs le dof button the FPS difference I s actually massive just use a 5d2 side by side with a mk 3 the 5d mk3 AF is simply awesome and blows the doors off anything that is not a 1dx yes the 5d3 is well worth the extra money IMO



Totally agree. It doesn't sound like much when you think of it as 3% difference but that difference is is seeing the edge of the frame or not seeing it at all.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 24, 2012)

One thing no one has mentioned so far, but might be relevant for some users. The 5DIII does not have a user-replaceable focus screen, but the 6D does - and it's compatible with the Eg-S super precision screen (whereas even the 1D X is not metering compatible with the corresponding Ec-S).


----------



## Marsu42 (Sep 24, 2012)

Phenix205 said:


> 5D3 is no doubt a more capable camera. It seems to me that 6D will give you the best bang of buck for now



The relative "bang for the buck" in Canon-land is getting better for the 6d since the 5d3 price is rising, many disillusioned Canon users seem to bit the bullet and pay more than €3000 in Germany. If this trend persists this tells the whole story of how the 6d announcement is received.


----------



## Sharper100 (Sep 24, 2012)

*Re: Comparing 6D with 5D*

Many interesting comments so far. Thank you, all. It may be worth the wait to see how the 6D will actually perform, when it comes out in stores in quantities........around Christmas?

It may turn out to be an excellent FF camera, with a simple yet useful AF system, which would make it a big hit, as it finally replaces the 5D2. However, that may affect the sales for the 5D3. But then again, Canon may announce the 46MP 5D X around that same time, just to change the moods, and please the Pro's in another way...


----------



## rocketdesigner (Sep 24, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> The relative "bang for the buck" in Canon-land is getting better for the 6d since the 5d3 price is rising,...



"The 5D3 price is rising"? 

Gee, I wonder then how I bought one from Adorama for $750 off the list price a little over a week ago....?

The 5D3 will go nowhere but down in price - due to market competition, better value/more functionality in lower priced cameras, too high of a release price etc. etc. --- market factors we have already seen.


----------



## Botts (Sep 25, 2012)

It's going to be an interesting comparison.

I already lined up my rental of a 6D in January to try out.

Coming from a Digital Rebel, the 6D would be a great camera. However, for people like me coming from the 7D, it's going to be a tougher decision.

Us 7D users are used to 8fps, which is still better than the 5DIII and way ahead of the 6D. We are also used to 19 point auto-focus, and side buttons with joystick.

If the image quality is similar to the 5D3 and the AF accurate. I might sacrifice on ergo's and speed to save the money, seeing as I'll have to replace my 17-55 with a 24-70 as well.

I can't wait to try the 6D and see if it's my next camera, but the 7D still seems more capable, other than sensor size.


----------



## RC (Sep 25, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> One thing no one has mentioned so far, but might be relevant for some users. The 5DIII does not have a user-replaceable focus screen, but the 6D does - and it's compatible with the Eg-S super precision screen (whereas even the 1D X is not metering compatible with the corresponding Ec-S).



I noticed this yesterday while putting together my own comparison list. On the surface user-replaceable focus screens seem like a benefit but what is the advantage of Canon's fixed screen? I recall something a few years ago when I was comparing the 5D2 (with) and the 7D (without) but I can't recall what it was. I certainly enjoyed user-replaceable back in the film days.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 25, 2012)

RC said:


> ... what is the advantage of Canon's fixed screen? I recall something a few years ago when I was comparing the 5D2 (with) and the 7D (without) but I can't recall what it was. I certainly enjoyed user-replaceable back in the film days.



The fixed screen confers no real advantage, it's the same as the stock removeable screen. I suppose you could list cost as an advantage (possibly, and sort of). The 7D and 5DIII have fixed screens, and they also have the transmissive LCD, which allows complex AF point displays, grid lines and a 2-axis level on-demand, etc. The transmissive LCD and user-replaceable focus screens aren't mutually exclusive - the 1D X offers both...for a price.


----------



## Helevitia (Sep 25, 2012)

RC said:


> Don't forget ergonomics and button layout. Myself coming from a 7D, it would be awkward going to the smaller joystick less 6D. Personally I like the larger body, even the 60D feels a bit small.



Personally I think the joystick is a con. The setup on the 6D is just like the 60D and I loved it. Once I went to my 7D, I was disappointed. You have to constantly switch back and forth between the pad and joystick.


----------



## swrightgfx (Sep 25, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> One thing no one has mentioned so far, but might be relevant for some users. The 5DIII does not have a user-replaceable focus screen, but the 6D does - and it's compatible with the Eg-S super precision screen (whereas even the 1D X is not metering compatible with the corresponding Ec-S).



This is not true. Adapted screens can be fitted to the 5D Mark III by simply removing two small screws. There are a limited number of suppliers for the screens that, while not as easy to replace as in the 1Dx, or in fact the consumer APS-C devices, take no more than ten minutes to swap.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 25, 2012)

swrightgfx said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > One thing no one has mentioned so far, but might be relevant for some users. The 5DIII does not have a user-replaceable focus screen, but the 6D does - and it's compatible with the Eg-S super precision screen (whereas even the 1D X is not metering compatible with the corresponding Ec-S).
> ...



Perhaps I should have been more clear. I'm sure there are users out there who can field strip a 1D IV down to it's component parts and put it back together in perfect working order with all sealing intact. Canon considers the focus screen on the 5DIII to be not user replaceable. User replaceable screens are designed to seat properly when inserted into the slot (granted, they don't always), whereas if you swap a non-replaceable screen yourself, you may need to shim it, etc. Not saying it can't be done, just that it may not be so easy for the casual user. On the 5DII, I could swap in the Eg-S in little more time than it took to mount the 85L II, and swap back in the Eg-A stock screen when I switched to the 100-400mm. Two screws and '10 minutes' would be a bigger inertial barier to using the appropriate screen.


----------



## Act444 (Sep 25, 2012)

Played around with a 5D3 at the store yesterday for a few minutes. Probably shouldn't have done that- couldn't put the thing down! :

Coming from a 60D, this just seems like a whole new world of camera. But I was most impressed with the FF IQ. Notably cleaner at high ISOs...and seems like the FF sensor tends to be better than 1.6x at capturing minute details?

Makes me more intrigued by the 6D, if the quality can hold up...then again, probably wouldn't be a TRUE upgrade from a 60D besides the sensor (and still spending nearly 2K, come on). 60D will probably stick around in that case. 

If 5D3 price falls into high $2000s/good deals arise, perhaps the temptation to go "all out" will be there...only thing that sucks would be having to give up the 17-55 (for a 24-70 + lose IS), great lens...


----------



## Botts (Sep 25, 2012)

I've been trying to research the difference between a 97% and 100% viewfinder.

Could someone point me to a diagram of a viewfinder and the differences between each? The 7D has a 100% viewfinder.

What would I be losing going to a 97% coverage?


----------



## architect (Sep 25, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Sharper100 said:
> 
> 
> > AF Center Point:	-3 vs. –2 EV	= 6D is 33% more sensitive in low light
> ...



Am I reading it wrong? The 6D performs better in half the light of MKIII is able to do??? What does that mean exactly? Focusing in low light?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 25, 2012)

architect said:


> Am I reading it wrong? The 6D performs better in half the light of MKIII is able to do??? What does that mean exactly? Focusing in low light?



Yes, AF (with the center point and an f/2.8 or faster lens) is possible in half as much light with the 6D as with the 5DIII/1D X. In theory, based on specs - whether that holds true in practice remains to be seen.


----------



## RLPhoto (Sep 25, 2012)

The Real comparison should be if the 6D is worth the $$$ over the MK2. :-X


----------



## architect (Sep 25, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> architect said:
> 
> 
> > Am I reading it wrong? The 6D performs better in half the light of MKIII is able to do??? What does that mean exactly? Focusing in low light?
> ...



That makes a huge difference. I don't shoot sports but lots of candid in-motion people. I'm just use to using center point focus on everything I do in low light situations. Now I wonder if I really need all the extra AF points for from the MKIII if the 6D center point is actually that much better and what I'm use to. I never had good enough AF on any of my previous cameras so I just learned to only use center.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 25, 2012)

architect said:


> That makes a huge difference. I don't shoot sports but lots of candid in-motion people. I'm just use to using center point focus on everything I do in low light situations. Now I wonder if I really need all the extra AF points for from the MKIII if the 6D center point is actually that much better and what I'm use to. I never had good enough AF on any of my previous cameras so I just learned to only use center.



I suppose it depends on what you're used to. The 5DII center point AF is spec'd to -0.5 EV (2.5-stops brighter than the -3 EV of the 6D), and with my 5DII, I was able to AF with an f/5.6 lens with netered exposure of 1/80 s at ISO 25,600...so, I'm not sure where I'd need the extra 2.5 stops...


----------



## Marsu42 (Sep 25, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> so, I'm not sure where I'd need the extra 2.5 stops...



I remember shooting in Egyptian tombs where no flash is allowed to be mounted, and thus you cannot even use the af focus pattern :-> ... but really, the -3ev seems to be more of an excuse to tell people why the af system has to be so much dumbed down in comparison to the 5d3/d600.

Generally I'd say don't look a gift horse in the mouth, but only @$2099 it's not really a gift.


----------



## architect (Sep 25, 2012)

Sounds like I should get buy a MK II  

The MKII still floats around 1600~ used here in Toronto, Canada. Harder decision.


----------



## bdunbar79 (Sep 25, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> architect said:
> 
> 
> > That makes a huge difference. I don't shoot sports but lots of candid in-motion people. I'm just use to using center point focus on everything I do in low light situations. Now I wonder if I really need all the extra AF points for from the MKIII if the 6D center point is actually that much better and what I'm use to. I never had good enough AF on any of my previous cameras so I just learned to only use center.
> ...



At night when you're taking pictures inside your....................VAN DOWN BY THE RIVER!


----------



## CatfishSoupFTW (Sep 25, 2012)

id stick with the mrk3. Im hopefully making such a purchase soon, and the 6D is kinda cool spec wise, but I dunno, for me, the better build, the feel, the AF, 100 percent viewfinder and weather sealing is real nice. oh and dual cards is real nice. I would imagine that the video could be better. the extra fps would be real nice too. an extra added punch. as nice as the 6D would be especially from your xsi upgrade (im on a 40D still) then either would initially feel amazing, but id go mrk3. especially because its older brother, mrk2 had such a history.


----------



## RC (Sep 25, 2012)

Helevitia said:


> RC said:
> 
> 
> > Don't forget ergonomics and button layout. Myself coming from a 7D, it would be awkward going to the smaller joystick less 6D. Personally I like the larger body, even the 60D feels a bit small.
> ...


I guess it's whatever you are use to. I was playing with a 60D in a shop trying to simulate what a 6D might feel like. I found the inner Multi-controller inside the Quick Control Dial extremely awkward, but that is because I'm use to the 7D's joystick. It was hard for me to navigate without pressing the Set button. I'm sure with practice and time, either can be efficient although my bias prefers the joystick by a long shot.


----------



## Marsu42 (Sep 26, 2012)

RC said:


> It was hard for me to navigate without pressing the Set button. I'm sure with practice and time, either can be efficient although my bias prefers the joystick by a long shot.



Given the mediocre af system of the 60d/6d there's really no pressing need for a joystick to select af points, and to zoom around the preview imho the multicontroller is ok. So that wouldn't be the reason no to buy the 6d for me, it's simply "too little (features) for too much (money)".


----------



## Nishi Drew (Sep 26, 2012)

One thing that isn't talked of so much is how much life one can expect from the shutter of a 6D. I expect a cheap build, and the 1/180 sync is telling of a cheaper shutter, so how durable it is will determine the 6D as pro worthy or just an FF rebel.


----------



## Canon-F1 (Sep 26, 2012)

Nishi Drew said:


> One thing that isn't talked of so much is how much life one can expect from the shutter of a 6D. I expect a cheap build, and the 1/180 sync is telling of a cheaper shutter, so how durable it is will determine the 6D as pro worthy or just an FF rebel.



100000 vs. 150000 shutter accusations in the 5D MK2.

but then... replacing a shutter is not such a big deal.


----------



## tomscott (Sep 26, 2012)

I would like to see how people actually use the AF in their systems.

Having infinite points is great... but is it needed? or even that useful in terms of accuracy? Recently gone from a 9 point 40D to the 19 point 7D.

Always used single, centre point AF. I decided to have a go with the different zones on the 7D to be open minded and not be stuck in my ways with centre point. Using full auto it focuses on the closest item. I find this very hit and miss, same with all the other modes.

Now tracking subjects the zone modes are very useable but everything else I still use single centre point. Very accurate I get what I want in focus and the centre is more sensitive anyway.

So why is everyone complaining about the 6D. From what I read nearly everyone uses centre point. So why the outcry? I think using full auto isnt suitable it misses most of the time, the zones are specific and single point and recomposing is how most of us have been doing it for years!??

I also find the more points the more time it takes to choose and focus? Therefore more likely to miss the shot?

Thoughts?


----------



## Canon-F1 (Sep 26, 2012)

tomscott said:


> So why is everyone complaining about the 6D. From what I read nearly everyone uses centre point. So why the outcry? I think using full auto isnt suitable it misses most of the time, the zones are specific and single point and recomposing is how most of us have been doing it for years!??



i don´t know where you have that info from.

but i agree that if your a rebel user it makes not much sense choosing another AF point then the central one. 

egg or hen?

with a f1.2 the recomposing is prone to errors.
but then i guess not many rebel owners have such fast glass.


----------



## CanonLITA (Sep 26, 2012)

Sharper100 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Sharper100 said:
> ...



Great forum indeed, and Neuro makes it greater


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 26, 2012)

tomscott said:


> I would like to see how people actually use the AF in their systems.
> 
> Having infinite points is great... but is it needed? or even that useful in terms of accuracy? Recently gone from a 9 point 40D to the 19 point 7D.
> 
> ...



Who's this mythical 'everyone', and does it include anyone besides you?  I suppose the 'everyone' would include those users who just shoot every photo with their main subject smack in the middle of the frame. To heck with pleasing composition...

For tracking moving subjects, the more points the better - better tracking data drives better motion prediction, more densely spaced points means smoother handoffs from one point to the next.

Zone AF and full Auto have their uses, but yes, you need to be aware of their limitation - they select the closest subject under an AF point in the active group. Personally, I don't use automatic AF point selection (although I do use the 61-pt auto mode with the 1D X in AI Servo, since you manually select the starting point, then the camera face-tracks the subject all the way through the frame using all available points).

As Canon-F1 correctly points out, using the center point and recomposing is fine if you're shooting with a slow lens (f/4 or f/5.6) and/or with a distant subject, because in those cases the deep DoF will mask the focus error. But focus-recompose with a fast prime shot wide open results in back focus - that's geometry, plain and simple. The closer you can get an AF point to your subject, the better. That's one reason why the AF point spread on the 5D/5DII was unliked (it didn't help that the outer points weren't very accurate, either). 

Note that bodies with _lots_ of AF points (not the 7D, but 1-series bodies and the 5DIII) allow you to limit the number of user selectable points, which speeds up the process of moving the AF point around.


----------



## blaow (Sep 27, 2012)

I'm interested in picking a 5dmkiii or a 6D for astrophotography. Out of the two, which one points to have a higher signal to noise ratio?


----------



## RC (Sep 28, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> RC said:
> 
> 
> > It was hard for me to navigate without pressing the Set button. I'm sure with practice and time, either can be efficient although my bias prefers the joystick by a long shot.
> ...



That's true, but I do like to use the joystick with the Q menu settings. As someone else pointed out in an earlier post, the rear button layout seems to be arranged as if there was going to be a flip screen.

For me its just one more negative of the 6D. Going back and forth between my 7D and a 6D would be more awkward than between a 7D and 5D


----------



## Sharper100 (Sep 28, 2012)

pz-photography said:


> Sry, its a bit off topic but WHY THE HELL does it say "AE Bracketing +/- 3 EV) in almost every report I read? You can bracket up to 7 shots +/- over 8 EV, thats a lot! I was confused when I read that the 5D III had only +/-3 beacuse I thought its not better vor HDR than my 7D, but +/- 8 stops is a lot. Although I had the 6D in my handy on tuesday, I didn't check if its the same with the 6D. But it's not ok to write "AE Bracketing +/- 3EV", because it would mean its the same as for example the 7D where you can only take 3 shots up to +/- 3EV, thats it. With the 5D III its the same if you want to take 3 shots, but you shouldn't leave out that you can get a whole more EV range when you push up the shots. Whats your opinion on that?



According to the 5D3 manual (page 170), the camera brackets the exposure up to +3 stops. This can be done with 2, 3, 5, or 7 shots. So, regardless of the number of shots, the AEB is still within +3 stops. 

It then says you can set Exposure Compensation (which is another + or -5 stops) in combination with the AEB. I am not sure if the Exposure Compensation can be bracketed (on the + and -) similar to AEB, or is it set only in one direction (darker or brighter). Perhaps those who have tried it can verify this.

In either case, the specs for 6D and 5D3 seem to be similar on this feature.

Despite all the other differences (minor or major as noted by others); for me, the biggest question is how 6D's new AF system will perform. For this, I will wait until 6D is released, tested, and reviewed....Unless 5D3 price gets closer to my budget :-\


----------



## pz-photography (Sep 28, 2012)

Sharper100 said:


> pz-photography said:
> 
> 
> > Sry, its a bit off topic but WHY THE HELL does it say "AE Bracketing +/- 3 EV) in almost every report I read? You can bracket up to 7 shots +/- over 8 EV, thats a lot! I was confused when I read that the 5D III had only +/-3 beacuse I thought its not better for HDR than my 7D, but +/- 8 stops is a lot. Although I had the 6D in my handy on tuesday, I didn't check if its the same with the 6D. But it's not ok to write "AE Bracketing +/- 3EV", because it would mean its the same as for example the 7D where you can only take 3 shots up to +/- 3EV, thats it. With the 5D III its the same if you want to take 3 shots, but you shouldn't leave out that you can get a whole more EV range when you push up the shots. Whats your opinion on that?
> ...



If its that way in the manual (I didn't check myself yet) then its wrong. The bracketing range depends on the number of shots. At least on my 5D III, if you change the "Number of bracketed shots" in C.Fn1 e.g. to "7", go to "Q" then to "Exp. com/AEB setting" and then turn die upper dial clockwise I can take 7 pictures with the 1st to be over 8 stops under and the last one over 8 stops overexposed. I really don't know why this shouldn't be in the manual and why nobody cares....


----------



## Marsu42 (Sep 28, 2012)

pz-photography said:


> With the 5D III its the same if you want to take 3 shots, but you shouldn't leave out that you can get a whole more EV range when you push up the shots. Whats your opinion on that?



Canon expects you to use Magic Lantern which features unlimited and automatic(!) bracketing :so they don't bother with their own firmware anymore :->


----------



## Philco (Sep 28, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> I think the mythical 'everyone' are people like me who used to make a living with a pair of the original 5D's, where center point was the only point worth using, and that method of working carried over to the 5DmkII, partly out of habit, but mostly out of necessity still. Having used the 85L+35L for 90% of my portrait work in that time, I've always able to nail focus where I want it in more than enough shots to get what I needed by focusing and recomposing. Granted, I am talking about portrait and wedding work, mostly. It only takes a little practice and finesse to figure out what works, but it's not like I ever have a bunch of back-focused shots in any given take, and it's not a problem to finding pleasing compositions at wide apertures.
> 
> Now that we are onto the 5DIII, I find myself actually changing focus points all the time, and it's been it's own small learning curve, and I focus and recompose less. That being said, my keeper rate is higher overall, regardless of focusing technique, with the 5DIII because it really is just so much better overall and I'm learning to actually trust my camera, which says a lot. (finally canon, thanks).


----------



## emag (Sep 28, 2012)

blaow said:


> I'm interested in picking a 5dmkiii or a 6D for astrophotography. Out of the two, which one points to have a higher signal to noise ratio?



Astro is one of my prime interests also; I've gone film-300D-40D(modded)-60D and was interested in the high ISO capabilities of both the 6D and 5D3. One thing I'd miss with both of those would be the EOS Clip filters I use. I think if you're considering plunking down the bucks for either one, it might be worth renting each one first before locking yourself in. I would at least wait until others (with deeper pockets than mine) have put both cameras through their astrophotography paces and posted reviews/results. Just when you decide......the 7DMkII will come along.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 28, 2012)

Helevitia said:


> RC said:
> 
> 
> > Don't forget ergonomics and button layout. Myself coming from a 7D, it would be awkward going to the smaller joystick less 6D. Personally I like the larger body, even the 60D feels a bit small.
> ...



The wheel sounds like it would be very awkward to quickly change focus points around precisely.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 28, 2012)

swrightgfx said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > One thing no one has mentioned so far, but might be relevant for some users. The 5DIII does not have a user-replaceable focus screen, but the 6D does - and it's compatible with the Eg-S super precision screen (whereas even the 1D X is not metering compatible with the corresponding Ec-S).
> ...



Yeah but the metering gets messed up then and there is no menu item to compensate.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 28, 2012)

architect said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > architect said:
> ...



Hard to say, also just because it can focus in lower light doesn't mean that it will focus as precisely or quickly when there is enough light for either camera to handle. Maybe under bright light it will even get a bit blinded. Who knows. Nothing below 5D2/7D has been much reliable for one shot AF from Canon and even those two, especially the 7D, miss often enough. The pro 1 series and especially new 5D3/1DX are better.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 28, 2012)

dilbert said:


> compupix said:
> 
> 
> > The 6D sensor is just 35.8mm x 23.9mm.
> ...



So the 6D is definitely going to be the better cam when you are reach limited.

;D


----------



## K-amps (Sep 28, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > so, I'm not sure where I'd need the extra 2.5 stops...
> ...



I always keep a miniature LED (230 lumen) flashlight with me for emergencies...


----------



## danski0224 (Sep 29, 2012)

Sharper100 said:


> After comparing several key specifications between 6D and 5D3, below is my summary on how the two FF bodies compare (at least on paper):
> 
> AF Center Point:	-3 vs. –2 EV	= 6D is 33% more sensitive in low light
> 
> What do others think?



If I have the specs right, the 1DX center point sensitivity is also -2 EV, so this 6D can AF in 1/2 the light of the 1DX... Does the 6D have F8 support? 

The 5D II is at -0.5 EV.

I think this 6D could be a worthwhile upgrade from a 5D II. The smaller body is a negative for me, but the 1DX is not within reach.

Interchangeable focus screens and I'll assume no black AF points too. Double bonus.


----------



## RLPhoto (Sep 29, 2012)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> Helevitia said:
> 
> 
> > RC said:
> ...



The wheel indeed is very annoying to change AF points.


----------



## blaow (Sep 29, 2012)

emag said:


> blaow said:
> 
> 
> > I'm interested in picking a 5dmkiii or a 6D for astrophotography. Out of the two, which one points to have a higher signal to noise ratio?
> ...



Im eagerly waiting for those reviews, a simple signal to noise ratio test of both will be sufficient for me to decide, time will tell.


----------



## Marsu42 (Sep 29, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > The wheel sounds like it would be very awkward to quickly change focus points around precisely.
> ...



Imho it's really about habits, given the few af points at least on the 60d rotating the selection w/ the wheel or selecting them with the direction keys works ok me - esp. since I hope Magic Lantern will port "focus patterns" I use to the 6d, too, so you have more alternatives than "one or all" selected. For more than the 60d/6d af points a joystick surely would make more sense.


----------



## Kiboko (Oct 2, 2012)

Can anyone state with any certainty just WHICH camera actually replaces the 5D MKII? Initially I thought it was the 5D MKIII, but now people are saying, no, it's the 6D. I won't be replacing my 5D MKII for reasons of cost at present, (never had any focusing problems with it whatsoever by the way, although I admit I use it only for portrait/landscape work), - but for someone wanting their first F/F camera, the fact that the MKII is likely to be discontinued shortly doesn't make it any less a camera, and is it not cheaper in real terms than either of the other two, now that the price has dramatically dropped?


----------



## shinjuku-thief (Oct 3, 2012)

I thought it was pretty obvious that the 5DMk3 replaces the 5dMk2. The 6D is a new addition to the product line. For a short while it will overlap price-wise with the 4 year-old 5DMk2, however, just until new stock of the latter is finally sold off. That's how I see it.


----------



## Marsu42 (Oct 3, 2012)

shinjuku-thief said:


> I thought it was pretty obvious that the 5DMk3 replaces the 5dMk2. The 6D is a new addition to the product line.



No, it's the other way around: From the completely different price tag to the 1dx-derived features the 5d3 is a whole new product line, while the 6d is the real successor as an updated 5d2 - newer manufacturing process, some gimmicks added, some features removed. The 5d2 was a bumped up 40d, as the 6d is a 60d with ff sensor.

That's why so many people are disappointed with the 6d, just like the 50d->7d/60d split there is no feature-complete ff like the Nikon d600 unless you want to pay €3000+.


----------



## LostArk (Oct 3, 2012)

5D3 focusing screen = fixed
6D focusing screen = interchangeable

While I'm sure I'm in the minority, lack of an interchangeable focusing screen is a dealbreaker for me, which is why if I had to choose between the 5D3 and the 6D I'd pick the latter, assuming it has comparable IQ. With an Eg-S focusing screen or split focusing screen and some Zeiss glass, the 6D can moonlight as a ghetto Leica; a feature the 5D3 lacks.


----------



## sivesind (Oct 3, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> shinjuku-thief said:
> 
> 
> > I thought it was pretty obvious that the 5DMk3 replaces the 5dMk2. The 6D is a new addition to the product line.
> ...



But now, you forget the original pricetag of the 5D.2. All the three 5D cameras have been $3000,- cameras when released. The 5D.3 is slightly more expensive, but then prices in general have gone up as well. The 6D is an entire new product line, which should be obvious by the name it has been given. It is also obvious by the physics of the camera. Check out these side by side pictures of the 5D.3 and 5D.2, to see how similar they are: http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-5d-mark-iii/6. Although I haven't seen similar comparisons with the 6D, the specs indicate it is between 5 and 7mm smaller in all three dimensions, which is significantly smaller. it is also significantly lighter (770g vs. 950g with batteries). The 5D.2 is specified to weigh 810g without battery, so both 5Ds are much more solidly built.

To me, all these facts indicate that Canon considers the 5D.3, the successor to the 5D.2, while the 6D is a new product line.


----------



## xtaski (Oct 3, 2012)

The one I'm still trying to compare is the 6D vs the D600 from Nikon... I was pretty much ready to start putting my Canon gear up on eBay and switch to Nikon but now I have to rethink the plan... I still haven't seen any actual reviews/tests of the 6D and considering its release date it may be a while yet... perhaps the Nikon price will go down... I'm not rushing towards either as my T3i is just fine - the lure of FF is tugging at me though...


----------



## Marsu42 (Oct 3, 2012)

xtaski said:


> I still haven't seen any actual reviews/tests of the 6D and considering its release date it may be a while yet...



Canon seems to want to make sure that 5d2 and 6d won't be sold alongside each other, thus the clearance sales and the December release date of the 6d. So it's unfortunate we won't know how the 6d really performs until it is too late to get a new 5d2 w/o "the last boxes" premium.



sivesind said:


> But now, you forget the original pricetag of the 5D.2. All the three 5D cameras have been $3000,- cameras when released.



No, I didn't forget it, I consciously ignored the fact - and for a reason: With tech evolution, the price of consumer dslr categories is falling, and the 6d price should have reflected that (and the Nikon competition). Would you buy an automobile that has the same (inflation included) starting price as 1900 when only very few, select rich could afford it? Would you buy a 60d dslr that for the same starting $1500 price as the 20d in 2004? No, probably not.


----------



## Sharper100 (Oct 17, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Sharper100 said:
> 
> 
> > AF Center Point: -3 vs. –2 EV = 6D is 33% more sensitive in low light
> ...



I finally pulled the trigger and got the 5DIII. The AF system is truly amazing, and capable. I am glad that I made that choice. I must admit that Neuro's comment had an impact, as I find his knowledgable comments very informative.

The price was a bit above my original budget, but I feel that I got my money's worth. It is an amazing camera......


----------

