# Profoto B1 vs. Phottix Indra



## V8Beast (Nov 21, 2014)

Does anyone here own a set of Profoto B1 lights? How do you like them? How well does the built-in diffuser work? How long does the battery last? I'm debating between the B1s and the Phottix Indras. The players:

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1009783-REG/profoto_901094_b1_500_airttl_monolight.html

http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1089949-REG/phottix_indra500_ttl_studio_light.html

I know there is a huge price difference between the two, but the convenience of having the battery packs, wireless triggers, and reflectors built into the heads on the Profoto lights is very appealing, especially for shoots that involve changing locations several times, which means setting up the lights several times. The Indras have a separate battery pack and reflectors, so that's more setup time and cords to trip over. One advantage of the Indras is that they have HSS, which the B1s do not, but I don't see that being too useful for my needs. 

My primary objective is trimming down on the amount of gear I have to lug around in the field, as well as cutting down on the setup time. I'm currently using three White Lightning heads triggered by a Phottix Odin/Strato combo. Between the lights, cords, battery packs, reflectors, and triggers I need a big ass Pelican case to fit it all in. In contrast, two B1 lights will fit in a small backpack. I can see myself using the B1s in situations and locations where I would have never bothered with the White Lightnings due to their size and the hassle of setting then up, choosing instead to limp around with Speedlites. Not having to attach the battery packs, power cords, reflectors, and triggers will save me 15 minutes in setup time and 15 minutes in pack-up time each and every time.


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## RLPhoto (Nov 21, 2014)

I've only seen some YouTube demos on the b1s and considering they do offer a lot of portability, they do have the light mods behind them. I couldn't find the info on what mods the phottix takes but it won't touch profotos mods. In the end, the mods are key and that's what takes up my space when I have to lug it around, not the lights so much.

Then again, if HSS isn't that important, the Einstein heads will cut your weight down, get rid of the pesky Odin system (plus remote power control and even light metering direct into your transmitter to adjust exposure with.) with cybersync and you already have the mods for it.

But... if you have the budget, get the b1s simply for the mods.


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## privatebydesign (Nov 21, 2014)

The RoveLight RL500 http://flashhavoc.com/flashpoint-rovelight-rl-600-review/ seems like a happy half step, and the price is very good, plus the battery is internal.

I don't see the advantage of the Indra over an Einstein and Mini Lithium, they both have external batteries, one cable and the head.

Profoto are supposed to be working on HSS and it will be able to be firmware upgraded to the current heads, but there is no knowing which cameras the upgrade will support.

I have been looking very closely at the Profoto set, I am just waiting to see how the development goes and waiting until I have a TTL supported camera. They are expensive but strike me as a buy once kind of deal, having said that service, batteries and spares cost the same as a new Einstein so they need to be durable to be worth the money, and the controller is daft money too! One payoff I noted with the kit, you get a backpack and car charger but only one mains charger. 

All in all I expect I will be looking to get a set late next year or early 2016, seems a long way off but until that 1DX MkII comes out and is supported I am in limbo.


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## V8Beast (Nov 21, 2014)

Thanks for the feedback, fellas. Although I don't need to lug around modifiers that often, I know the options are limitless for the Profoto system. Great point.

Those RoveLight RL500s are an intriguing option. I think the rather basic transmitters would drive me insane, but then again they're less than 1/3 the price of the Profoto B1s. I read that article several times, and couldn't figure out if you have to jerry rig something up to get the HSS to work? Either way, gotta love all the competition out there these days ;D Nice to know that Profoto is working on a HSS firmware upgrade as well. That would be awesome. 

I don't really want to spend the money on the Profotos, but after going through my books it's looking like I'm going to need a big tax write off to close out the year. I'd much rather upgrade my gear than send my money to Uncle Sam ;D


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## Subtas (Dec 24, 2014)

V8Beast, I'm in the same boat!

Did you decide anything by now?

I already have the Odin system with 3 speedlites, so adding an Indra will be the most safe and cheaper bet. I would have 4 lights! But in more challenging situations for speedlites, would I have really four lights?
I'm in the need of more powerful strobe and it crosses my mind about the investment in the profoto. But everything else would be more expensive!

There are a few things that the Indra is "ahead": mix TTL with Manual in different channels and Stroboscopic. I don't know if it's possible to turn off channels independently in B1, while in the Odin system, it is.
Profoto has other "aheads" of course.

And also will be released the Odin II and it looks promising!

I contacted my camera store and they said that Indra only in february we will know something about it. It is strange, because its release date was scheduled for October 2014. I'm curious about the delay. 
There are a few units out there, youtube videos by owners but the reviews are not much detailed.


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## privatebydesign (Dec 25, 2014)

Now Profoto have actually delivered on the HSS promise the B1's are looking a near certainty in my future plans. The one caveat is they seem to have locked the HSS into the top couple of power levels, which seems strange, but very workable.


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## adventureous (Dec 25, 2014)

Indra uses the Bowen's mount.

http://www.thephoblographer.com/2014/11/03/first-impressions-phottix-indra-500-ttl/


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## Subtas (Jan 5, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> Now Profoto have actually delivered on the HSS promise the B1's are looking a near certainty in my future plans. The one caveat is they seem to have locked the HSS into the top couple of power levels, which seems strange, but very workable.



Maybe it's not that strange.
If you think in speedites maybe the same happens: you turn on HSS, you are in 1/16 of power, you take a picture, the power it is not enough, you raise power to 1/2.
The B1 just takes you automatically to power from 7 to 10 (Canon system).

Maybe that is something like this.


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## CreationHeart (Jan 12, 2015)

Haven't used Phottix yet. But I recently bought a B1 and most recently added a second head because they are just darn cool! The ultimate fusion of power and portability (even better than speedlights IMO). Now you have some expensive heads so you need good (expensive) modifiers, stands and more batteries etc...So the only downside is you have to sandbag your light otherwise it's not very safe if there's wind, but that defeats the portability side right?

Do you shoot with assistants? I find myself worrying a bit when shooting with two lights by myself. I know they will fall if I put modifiers without tones of sandbags!


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## Ellahu Ben Avram (Jan 18, 2015)

Just starting to work with the Indra and I have used the b1 as well.

These are my quick notes on the Indra:

On the Indra the receiver is built in. TTL exposure with both is good. Also the Odin system lets you use the Indra and Speedlites (or Speedlights for Nikon shooters) all in TTL mode. Profoto USA and Sweden no plans to open up their radio system to use the b1 with Nikon, Canon, or Sony hotshoe mount flashes. 

With an Odin TCU set to HSS mode it syncs well all the way up to 1/8000, even with the 1D X. 


The external battery isn't really an issue for me. (If the light is up high on a stand or somewhere else that is not easily accessible an external battery is easier to switch out) Also it has a power feature the B1 lacks: an optional AC power supply.

Modeling light is okay butdim compared to a 150 or 250 watt quartz-halogen modeling light.

Best implementationof the Bowens-S mount I've seen yet and that includes Bowens.

The Profoto b1 (and D1) built-in relfector is really designed for usign the flash with umbrellas, once you want to use a soft-box the differences are nil. 

With narrow or wide angle angle reflectors the head design of the Indra is nominally better . I know Profoto makes an optional protrudign glass dome for the B1 butthe results are not the same as using a Profoto Pro or Acute head. 

Light quality: color and flash duration is a in the same small ballpark as the Einstein and B1.

Right now, regardless of cost I think the state of the art for an all manual monolight remains the Paul C Buff Einstein E640 but for TTL controlled monolights, the Indra's features put it overall in front of the B1. 

While I am still doing testing to both familiarize myself with it and to find its weaknesses before putting it into front line service, let me know if you want to see samples.


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## pwp (Jan 19, 2015)

Profoto B1 is definite rock & roll level hardware. Profoto is the go-to system for people in the flash hire/rental business. 

Yet after a decade and a half of almost evangelist level Profoto ownership, I sold off the lot a couple of years ago. The cost of ownership was high. High purchase prices and frequent trips to the repair shop took the shine off for me. So eight Compact 600 heads, two 2400 w/s floorpacks and all the modifiers and accessories were quickly (and easily) sold.

I now run with eight PCB Einsteins, VML's, and lots of staggeringly good value modifiers. They get shipped all over the place and have passed the tough-test. I like their very light weight, small size, power range from 2.5 w/s to 640 w/s, quick recycling and (so far) perfect reliability. An Einstein head is priced around the same as a Canon 600 EX-RT vs around $2k for a Profoto B1. PCB support is legendary.

Getting back on-topic, Profoto B1 vs. Phottix Indra is a fascinating comparison. Phottix are making some great stuff, no question. The Indra is probably perfectly fine, but I'd be looking closely at choice and range of quality modifiers, performance/reliability feedback and importantly, the standard of product support close to where you live. 
http://www.thephoblographer.com/2014/11/03/first-impressions-phottix-indra-500-ttl/#.VLxUSifOQZ0
https://fstoppers.com/gear/phottix-announces-indra500-ttl-500ws-strobe-ttl-and-hss-37521
http://www.lightingrumours.com/phottix-indra500-ttl-6267#.VLxbJCfOQZ0

We're absolutely spoiled for choice with flash gear now compared to just a few years ago. My best-buy for 2014 was a pair of 400 w/s Godox Witstro AD 360 flashes. Talk about great value. Godox and some of the other emerging brands may not have the street-cred of Profoto or Broncolor, but really, who cares? It's the credibility derived from the results you deliver to your client that counts.

pw


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## privatebydesign (Jan 19, 2015)

pwp said:


> Profoto B1 is definite rock & roll level hardware. Profoto is the go-to system for people in the flash hire/rental business.
> 
> Yet after a decade and a half of almost evangelist level Profoto ownership, I sold off the lot a couple of years ago. The cost of ownership was high. High purchase prices and frequent trips to the repair shop took the shine off for me. So eight Compact 600 heads, two 2400 w/s floorpacks and all the modifiers and accessories were quickly (and easily) sold.
> 
> ...



The Einstein, which I own, and the Profoto B1 are entirely different tools with vastly different functionality, the Einstein will never do ETTL or HSS. Compare the Einstein to the D1 500 for $1,219 and you are talking some sense.


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## Maui5150 (Jan 19, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> The Einstein, which I own, and the Profoto B1 are entirely different tools with vastly different functionality, the Einstein will never do ETTL or HSS. Compare the Einstein to the D1 500 for $1,219 and you are talking some sense.



The Einstein may never do ETTL, but it will do HSS... In fact almost any mono light or pack can. Just use anything like the Odins, Flex TT5, etc. I have shot both my Dynalite and Photogenic PL1250DR lights on Photogenic Ion battery pack and PocketWizard Flex TT1/TT5 set up at 1/2000 

And the Einstein to Profoto is not a bad comparison either. The Einstein's have one of the shortest flash duration out there.... I believe the Einsteins are even shorter than when I run a Dynalite M2000 pack with the 4080 Bi-Tube flashes, which has something like 1/3500 of a flash duration and the Einstein I think was closer to 1/4200 

It takes some tweaking, but with the PocketWizard Flex, not only can you fire studio strobes at shorter than 1/250, but you can also set it up so not only do you fire off your strobes, but also a second camera and have it all synched.


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## privatebydesign (Jan 19, 2015)

Maui5150 said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > The Einstein, which I own, and the Profoto B1 are entirely different tools with vastly different functionality, the Einstein will never do ETTL or HSS. Compare the Einstein to the D1 500 for $1,219 and you are talking some sense.
> ...



Hypersync is not HSS, Paul C Buff has said he is not interested in making the firmware to enable Einsteins to do HSS, and with their IGBT circuitry they should be very capable of doing. Your Dynalite and Photogenic are not doing HSS, they are just flashing before the first curtain starts to travel and relying on the flash pulse taking long enough to cover the full travel of the second curtain, that is just timing and you are getting an uneven exposure, it is impossible not to, how noticable that is in any particular shot can be questioned and will vary with shutter speed, flash power, and aperture, but HSS is very different from the PocketWizard fakie, Hypersync.

Sure the Einstein and Profoto can both do the same things, flash, until you want or need HSS and/or ETTL.

If you are going to compare monoblocs, as I said, the D1 is the Profoto to compare the Einstein to. You need to plug them both in and neither does HSS or ETTL.


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## CreationHeart (Jan 20, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> Maui5150 said:
> 
> 
> > privatebydesign said:
> ...


I think HSS is way more demanding on strobe in terms of durability and consistency. Some said Einstein was not suitable for HyperSync as it has too a short flash duration. It would create banding. I guess same goes to it's HSS applications.


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## privatebydesign (Jan 20, 2015)

CreationHeart said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > Maui5150 said:
> ...



Maybe, but at lower powers it would just have to pulse more often than a strobe with a longer duration flash, but they are very capable of doing low power high repetitive flashes all day long. I could see issues with people doing repeated high output HSS flashes, but that could be limited in a firmware anyway.

I really like my Einsteins, and they do their job very well, but as I have matured I have come to view lighting equipment with the same use examples we define lenses, sure some people are very happy with one lens and that is it, other people have two or three and cover their needs with that, I find lighting the same, some people are quite happy with no lighting equipment or just a simple on camera flash, others shoot a variety of subjects and styles that demand not just different modifiers but different lights that give them additional functionality and have different capabilities.

When I do end up getting B1's they will supplement the 600-EX-RT's and the Einsteins, they won't replace them. They are all different tools that can do completely different jobs. Just like a 16-35 and a 70-200.


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## Subtas (Jan 21, 2015)

Ellahu Ben Avram said:


> ... the Indra's features put it overall in front of the B1.



Phottix Indra is very appealing but lately their support it is not very reliable. There are many users having problems with Mitros+ and have no response by the support team.
How long will last a Phottix Indra? My Odin receivers are not in good shape after 2 years: plastic support for hotshoe is broken and another was almost split in half when tilted with a flash. And they were not used in tough conditions.
These things should be taken in consideration, in my opinion.

And about modifiers? Phottix modifiers are OK but not that special in terms of light quality. If you want to use another brand you have to get speedrings, increasing the overall price.

let's wait for the reviews.


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## borner (Jan 24, 2015)

I'm following this with great interest as I'm also looking into the Profoto B1's.

I currently have 4 einsteins and a variety of PCB modifiers and 2 Vagabond battery packs. I also have the PCB commander wireless and Pocket wizard flex/TT1s and the PW receivers for the Einsteins. I also have 4 Canon 600 Ex-Rts and corresponding ST transmitter.

My 2 cents:

* The PCB Einsteins and modifiers are great values in the studio. Portability is ok but not great in my experience. I find the Einsteins to be heavy, clunky, and fragile enough to be left at home most of time.

* Einstein reliability hasn't been as good for me as others. I had to send one back because after about 4 months of use, it blew out. The bulb and diffuser bulb cover is highly exposed making it easy to break while putting on modifiers (which I've done twice).

* The PCB modifier speedring mechanical connection is a terrible design, and just plain doesn't work with a big octabox without extra help. In semi-windy conditions outside, even medium sized sofboxes blow off the speedring.

* PCB customer service, however, is awesome. They are really really fantastic. Unfortunately, I know this because I've had to work with them more than I'd like.

* Wireless: PCB commander is reliable, works pretty well, but I find the commander display tedious to work with and hard to read. Pocket wizard flex and recievers with the Einsteins are totally unreliable w.r.t. triggering. I bought the commander gear because of this. The pocket wizard recievers for the Einsteins are on recally/don't use because they apparently can overheat (I don't use the anymore so I don't have any experience with this).

Net: I really like the price / performance of the Einsteins, and really like doing biz with PCB. But for wireless and portable shooting, they probably aren't the best option.


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## TowcesterNews (Jan 24, 2015)

I have a couple of Profoto B1s, with the little rucksack. I also have four Elemental trinity 600ws Bowens fit mono blocs and three Canon 600 Ex.

For studio, I use the Trinity - they plug in and work all day.

On location - the Profoto B1s deploy and set up very quickly. You do need sandbags if you don't have an assistant with a monopod.

There is still plenty of jobs - press etc, where Speedlites earn their keep.

My experience with the B1, is that they are game changing, with TTL, quick snap, and you are there, you can shift straight to manual from the Air remote, and make one tenth adjustments to up to three groups. I have also used the remote 100 metres from the strobe, could still control modelling light and adjust head.

Yes they cost more, but they just do what it says on the tin. 

For some jobs you can just put one on the floor, aimed at the ceiling - does not really matter how high its, there is plenty of power.

In Freeze mode at low power you can get 19,000 of a second flash duration.


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## Zak (Nov 5, 2015)

Hi. I'm split between B1 and Indra500. With one word without much explanation...Which one has more value for the money invested? Thanks!


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## Zak (Nov 6, 2015)

Another rival !!!

*INTERFIT S1*

http://www.interfitphotographic.com/news/the-new-s1.html#.Vjv_Q6Km2BR

http://flashhavoc.com/interfit-s1-ttl-hss-strobe-announced



500Ws – GN48.7m (160’) – ISO 100, 1/125s

Flash Modes – ETTL / I-TTL / Manual
HSS to 1/8000th (in Manual Mode)
FEC – 1/3rd Increments (±3 Stops)
Manual Power – 2.0 – 8.0 (1/10th Increments), 7 Stop Range

Interfit 2.4GHz Radio System Built In
ETTL & ITTL Radio Slave Modes
Range – 100m+
3 Groups – A / B / C
Multiple Channels

Basic Optic Slave Mode

4500mAh Li-Ion Battery Pack
350 Full Power Flashes
3 Second Recycle Time at Full Power (AC Powered S1a 2 Seconds)
AC Power adapter (Multi Voltage: 100V – 240V)

IGBT Technology
Flash Duration – 1/1000 – 1/9000 (Max-Min Power)
Color Temperature – 5700k +/- 100k

Large LCD Display
10W LED Modeling Light
Fan Cooled
Auto Dump
Temperature Regulation

Bowens S-Type Mount
Strong Aluminium Body
Frosted Glass Diffser Dome (Protects Flash Tube)

USB Port for Firmware Upgrades
3.5mm Sync Port


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## arthurbikemad (Nov 6, 2015)

I just got the ELB400 with Action and HS heads, loving it!!! Best for me is super small and light heads, Tail end sync (HS, Hypersync, equivalent of IGBT flashes HSS) works brilliantly on my 5D3 and batt life is great! Power pack is easy to move around, keeps heavy heads off the stands and integrates well with my speedlights in optical trigger, the trigger is ultra sensitive! 

I wanted the B1's but after trying HSS the power drop off was unusable in bright light at any distance, the tail end sync of the ELB is much better for my use, also the B1's (two heads) is a fair package to lug around all day in a backpack.


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## Pookie (Nov 6, 2015)

I own 3 B1's currently (for just about a year I think), in addition to Elinchrom Rangers and Quadra's. At first I thought I would use HSS more often but I tend to do everything manual/old school. At this point I've used HSS or ETTL about 5 times in a year and only to test it out. It does work flawlessly and the only issue I have is ETTL seems to be a little inconsistent with shot to shot exposure. 

The one thing I'm really not starting to like about Profoto? Their customer service... quite possibly one of the worst companies out there for any service. I had always thought Elinchrom would be the problem but I've gotten parts and service painlessly.


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## arthurbikemad (Nov 6, 2015)

Elinchrom have been great with me this week, I was a little off with them as one of the tiny tabs (VERY minor but OCD and the price kicked in) that holds the spare fuse on the battery pack had snapped off, Wex (UK) replaced it and all was sorted, even though my tone may have been lost through the lack of     's they still kept up the comm's on twitter etc, all my Q's were answered pretty much within the hour! I'd say I am very happy with Elinchrom and Wex.

I was sooo close to buying the B1 kit but a couple of things put me off, heavy heads (or more so than the ELB's) and the battery packs, you have a few options with the Elinchrom, i.e cheaper lead gel and Li etc etc, some convert the older packs to Li for a cheaper option.

As for TTL its handy at times, I use my 308s to meter my lights if I need or just shoot and adjust, you soon get a feel for the scene plus blinkies help  TTL and me have a mixed relation ship, I just feel that IF I use it it will blow the one shot I want haha

Profoto do lead the game with TTL imo, the one thing they have that I have missed on any other TTL system is the ability to see what was used when it metered the shot, or as they say to switch to manual (lock down) from TTL and tweak the settings it used last shot, NICE! If my 600exrt's did that I would be over the moon!


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## pwp (Nov 15, 2015)

borner said:


> My 2 cents:
> 
> * The PCB Einsteins and modifiers are great values in the studio. Portability is ok but not great in my experience. I find the Einsteins to be heavy, clunky, and fragile enough to be left at home most of time.


I bought Einsteins precisely _FOR _their almost unrivaled light weight (for the 640ws output), my six have passed the three year "tough-test" almost entirely on location. By comparison, previous Elincrom and Profoto kits both spent far too much time at the repair shop. So far so good with the Einsteins.



borner said:


> * Einstein reliability hasn't been as good for me as others. I had to send one back because after about 4 months of use, it blew out. The bulb and diffuser bulb cover is highly exposed making it easy to break while putting on modifiers (which I've done twice).


Agree the front glass dome is exposed somewhat, but never had a breakage, changing mods all the time including a heavy, adapted 30 inch beauty dish 30 inch and a couple of the 86 inch PLM's.



borner said:


> * The PCB modifier speedring mechanical connection is a terrible design, and just plain doesn't work with a big octabox without extra help. In semi-windy conditions outside, even medium sized sofboxes blow off the speedring.


Yes this is a weak link but they're kind of locked in with this design. Later Einsteins function far better in this respect than the very earliest ones.



borner said:


> * PCB customer service, however, is awesome. They are really really fantastic. Unfortunately, I know this because I've had to work with them more than I'd like.


The service reputation is close to being unrivaled. You hear stories all the time praising the legendary PCB service. Fortunately this is still an experience that may or may not occur at some time in the future. 


borner said:


> * Wireless: PCB commander is reliable, works pretty well, but I find the commander display tedious to work with and hard to read. Pocket wizard flex and recievers with the Einsteins are totally unreliable w.r.t. triggering. I bought the commander gear because of this. The pocket wizard recievers for the Einsteins are on recally/don't use because they apparently can overheat (I don't use the anymore so I don't have any experience with this).


The Cyber Commander is handy but has close to the worst GUI I've ever worked with. Apple's Jonny Ive would be appalled. I've got the PCB Cyber Sync setup with a receiver for each Einstein and never had a moment's trouble. The battery in the trigger seems to last for ages, and lets you know it's low with weird multiple firing. I can get HSS on full power (longest flash duration) using the Phottix Odin triggers. Don't have a lot of call for HSS but it's handy for those odd occasions. I'll be rolling this function out for a project later this week.

-pw


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