# Entry-level video production



## Curmudgeon (Apr 14, 2012)

To the videographers on the forum:

My young nephew (like every other artistically inclined person under 35) has joined some fellow conspirators with the intention to perpetrate video production. They've gone so far as to hire an attorney and incorporate. They think they'll buy a T3i, a $400 zoom, a few accesories--spend maybe $1600 to $1800--and wow the world on the basis of their creativity. They have some horsepower as far as writing, on-screen talent, even marketing goes, but I don't think one of them knows an f-stop from a drive mode from a liquid head.

I'm the family photographer, and my nephew has approached me about how to best invest their limited budget. My sense is that the kindest thing I could do for these kids is to put a pin to their bubble, but I'm basically a stills photographer and I can't critique their game plan with the kind of authority and specificity that might get their attention before they make some costly mistakes. I shoot a 5D2 and I do know that it doesn't take $25000 worth of equipment to make an adequate corporate video. I also know that digital has made it relatively easy for anyone to take a decent picture and raised the technical standards for taking one that stands out. Since video is the big thing among the younger generation, I'm sure the same reality applies to a higher power.

I presume that serious video production requires at least a half-serious camera, a solid tripod, a decent liquid-damped head, a lamp (and a stand) or two for modeling the talent, maybe a basic shoulder mount , and surely off-camera audio recording capability--as well as a few other things that might not occur to a novice. But maybe not. I'd appreciate if a couple of forum members who do video full-time or part-time (say as an adjunct to a wedding business) would take 20 minutes to address a letter to my nephew--his name is Dave--about what a realistic entry-level video lash-up includes and what it costs. I'll refer him to this thread.

Thanks in advance,

Curmudgeon


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 14, 2012)

They might check out some of the many video blogs on the internet where successful video makers share the equipment and how-to with enthusiasts.

You have to start somewhere, and for utube videos, you can get by on a basic budget. The camera body is indeed the smallest part of a video budget, sound is 50%, lenses, of course, and lighting. Some things can be rented and some can be home made by clever people. 

A good way to start might be by working weddings, bar mitzvahs, and cranking any money earned back into equipment.

Here is a link to a article about Vinvent Laforet. He had the good fortune to have a father who was a well known photographer of movie stars and sets, but his father did not want him to be a photographer, rather a doctor or lawyer, so he started with nothing but a camera and worked up from there.

http://idesignyoureyes.com/2011/01/21/one-on-one-interview-with-vincent-laforet/


Rather than burst their bubble, encourage them to learn and be clever in the use of what they have to start with.


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## bp (Apr 14, 2012)

Already incorporated? They show admirable determination. Bursting that bubble might be fruitless

All this is just my uber-humble opinion - many may disagree. But yes - just a camera and a lens is just barely getting started. Unless they plan to do nothing but static shots, at the very least, they'll need a set of sticks with a fluid head - the Manfrotto 701HDV is a good low cost starter head (701 head and sticks can be had for around $300). They can get away with not having a shoulder rig. 

Audio is a whole other ball of wax. Nothing can cheapen a well-shot video like bad audio. Unless they're planning to do nothing but music videos and shoot without sound, they'll need something. Zoom H4n or an H1 in a pinch ($100 to $300). A decent shotgun mic to stick on the end of a home made boom pole might also be a good call. Omnidirectional / stereo mics on the zooms are great for environmental sound but don't do very well with dialogue

A T3i (even a used T2i) actually punches above it's pay grade, in terms of video quality, but that's also highly dependent on the glass. Just one "$400 zoom" sounds scary. Slow glass works OK if you've invested heavily in lighting - or available/home-made lighting works OK if you've invested heavily in fast glass. Combine slow/cheap glass and bad lighting, and they'll have a very short quick journey into bad video land. Instead of a cheap sliding aperture zoom (zooming is close to useless in anything but run-n-gun event video where every moment counts and you don't have time to compose your shots as carefully), they might look at picking up a couple cheap but decent primes, like a 35 f/2 ($300'ish) and an 85 f/1.8 ($400'ish). The 85 is especially good for it's price. If they go with a used T2i instead of the newer T3i, they might make their money go farther. Buying used in general could seriously save them some dough

There's also all the peripherals like memory cards, NLE editing software, etc...

If they really do have great writing ability and creativity... that will be the most valuable asset in their bag, and can overcome a slew of gear-related obstacles.

IMHO


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## scottkinfw (Apr 14, 2012)

Disclaimer: I am a stills photographer too.

I would look at Sekonic for cinematic light meters. They have some that measure colors etc. Lighting is a basic, yet advanced topic, but critical to master.

sek 



bp said:


> Already incorporated? They show admirable determination. Bursting that bubble might be fruitless
> 
> All this is just my uber-humble opinion - many may disagree. But yes - just a camera and a lens is just barely getting started. Unless they plan to do nothing but static shots, at the very least, they'll need a set of sticks with a fluid head - the Manfrotto 701HDV is a good low cost starter head (701 head and sticks can be had for around $300). They can get away with not having a shoulder rig.
> 
> ...


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## Policar (Apr 14, 2012)

Sounds like they have more business sense than photographic savvy, in which case they'll do fine. So long as they can deliver a consistent and marginally better product than their clients themselves would produce and seem professional along the way they will do okay and grow and improve. All the why-you-can't advice in the world will only dissuade, so just encourage and provide the basics. Paul McCartney never learned to read music and the Beatles did okay. Most producers and directors don't know their f stops or lenses when they start, either. With a dSLR you can expose fine by eye (and btw most cinematographers don't trust Sekonic meters, Spectra is the industry standard, but you don't need anything at all for videography) and if you're shrewd you can easily pick up lighting techniques and composition by watching the competition's reels--or hire someone with more experience until you can do it yourself.

They'll do fine. Their clients don't know what f-stops are either, and don't care. There are a million film students who know all the technical stuff and will work for nearly free, but artistic pretensions and technical stubbornness just get in the way (and business savvy people can hire these people dirt cheap anyway). His clients will care about a professional business approach, professional website, and reliability. That's what I'd reinforce. Sounds like a fine kit, btw. National ads are shot on the 7D regularly so it's not a matter of gear, either.


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## The_Arsonist (Apr 14, 2012)

I agree that audio quality is more important than video quality, especially these days. A quick and cheap way to get decent dialogue is to use a smartphone as a primary recording device.

Get a smartphone/ipod touch for each person who needs dialogue in a scene
Download a free app that supports mic in (I use Blue FiRe on iOS)
Get the appropriate adapter from this site http://www.kvconnection.com/product-p/km-iphone-mic.htm
Get a wired lavaliere with an 1/8"(3.5mm) male plug go into the KV adapter http://www.amazon.com/Audio-Technica-ATR-3350-Omnidirectional-Condenser-Microphone/dp/B002HJ9PTO/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1334437752&sr=8-1

With this setup, you can use the audio from the camera to sync each separate dialogue track in your NLE on the computer. This alone will get good enough audio to compete with most corporate video setups while spending only $50/person in a shot

But, if people are moving around a lot, as in a film, rather than stationary people talking, then this setup would not be ideal, as the mics make noise when moved against clothing. For that, a good boom mic, with an operator, is better. That means 

A Shotgun mic with XLR output ($280) http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/400812-REG/Rode_NTG_1_Condenser_Shotgun_Microphone.html
A boom pole and operator ($100)
A recording device or adapter to run into the cam with phantom power ($300) http://www.juicedlink.com/audio-preamps-mixers-etc-c-66/jl-cx231
A set of decent headphones ($100)


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## Policar (Apr 14, 2012)

And some lavs for sure. Clients love lavs because they make you look professional and they have great sound quality in difficult conditions. Sound is crucial. And furni pads are nice. LED lighting is all the rage now, also carry gels, diff, etc. and a nice tripod--super important.


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## Curmudgeon (Apr 15, 2012)

To all the folks who kindly took time to reply, thank you. It strikes me there's a wealth of practical information here. And maybe I misworded my initial entry. I earned my living for forty years as a free lance writer, and I would never discourage anyone from a life based on pursuing your true interests . Beats the hell out of punching a time card. But you do need to know what you're getting into. What I was hoping to get--and did get--was practical ideas about gear choices on a limited budget and some words of advice about the need to be informed, ingenious and hardworking.

As a stills guy, I can't comment about the info on audio, although the ingenuity and specificity (including weblinks) is appreciated. Arsonist's suggestion to use smart phones as lavs is intriguing. As for the video end, I do think Policar's suggestion to start with two basic primes, a medium wide-angle (35 mm) and a short telephoto (85mm), is spot on. (If I were shooting a T3i or other 1.6 crop, I'd consider a 100 mm for a long lens.)

What I think I'm hearing is that you could possibly break in--with luck--for $1500-1800, but for $2500-3000 you could hope to soon be competitive--if you made informed equipment buying choices and you had your other bases covered. In addition to the advice offered by other forum members, what I would say to Dave and his partners is this: if you plan to earn your living with a camera, you need one teammate (probably two) who is passionate about solving the technical and esthetic challenges of taking great pictures--whether still or video. If it's a matter of "who wants to be camera man this week?" you have a problem.

Thanks again to all who took the time to offer advice and suggestions. 

Curmudgeon


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## cayenne (Apr 17, 2012)

The_Arsonist said:


> I agree that audio quality is more important than video quality, especially these days. A quick and cheap way to get decent dialogue is to use a smartphone as a primary recording device.
> 
> Get a smartphone/ipod touch for each person who needs dialogue in a scene
> Download a free app that supports mic in (I use Blue FiRe on iOS)
> ...



Thank you for the great advice!!

I do have a question, about using the ipod/iphone....that adapter from kvconnection...looks like it would plug into the iPhone where the earphones go, I don't think that plug also adapts to a microphone..??

I was wondering if you meant to put some kind of link on there for a iPod/Iphone dock connector to mic adapter? Is there such a thing? I've not come across it yet with my searches.

I saw the Blue Fire app. and they appear to want you to pair it with their iPhone/iPod mic, which is just a normal style mike and I didn't see a lavalier option on the "mikey" they sell....

But these are great ideas and wondered if you had a little more info on that lavalier to iPhone/iPod adapter...which looks to require some type of dock to mic adapter...

Thank you,

cayenne


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## The_Arsonist (Apr 17, 2012)

cayenne said:


> Thank you for the great advice!!
> 
> I do have a question, about using the ipod/iphone....that adapter from kvconnection...looks like it would plug into the iPhone where the earphones go, I don't think that plug also adapts to a microphone..??
> 
> ...



The pinout on the iPhone headphone jack has an extra connection for the microphone; that is one of the reasons you need an adapter. That is why you see iPhone headsets that have a built in mic for talking on the phone with the earbuds in. The adapter from KVConnection uses only the microphone input on the headphone jack. They also make adapters that add a headphone jack, so you don't have to unplug the adapter to listen to the recording, as well as adapters with a standard professional microphone input (XLR)

http://www.kvconnection.com/product-p/km-iphone-43f35f.htm
http://www.kvconnection.com/product-p/km-iphone-xtrs.htm

There are options that use the dock connector, but they are generally more expensive and bulky, with most being in the $100-$200 range. I've never used any of them, but here is an example

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B005DNAB12/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_2?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B0064RMV9G&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=1JRCQQZT5TV1ZWMS5X4A

Blue fire works fine with any microphone. It can even use the built in microphone of the iPhone. There are other apps as well, but I found Blue FiRe to be the best free option.

I have made several videos using this method. It's especially useful when I make videos with my 50D, as that camera doesn't have any audio capabilities. I just grab the lav, my iPhone, and the adapter and I'm set.


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## bluegreenturtle (Apr 18, 2012)

I'm quite sick right now so don't have the stamina for a real reply. 

I will say that I did basically what they've been looking to do - started a video production company out of nothing, really (well, I had one client) and that supports me today. 

People have chimed in on the gear. It both matters and doesn't - at the end of the day it's about the ideas and story telling; the quality of the gear needs to be sufficient to not get in the way of that. You can go way beyond that but ultimately your clients will judge you on how engaging the storytelling is. The more experience I get the more I realize this is true - nobody worth working for gives a crap what you're shooting on - they care if their ideas are being expressed correctly and if you have good ideas of your own. I second the audio remarks - a crappy shot will be forgiven - a poorly recorded interview will not. 

Other advice - somebody on the team that has a very good grasp with after-effects or other similar software is invaluable. Editorial skills are invaluable, and required to do *any* work. Shooting is the easy part. Making meaning out of what you've shot is far harder. 

Expect to get screwed on a few jobs. Don't take on clients you don't trust. This is true in any business. 

Ultimately your own experience as a free lance writer should be informative about video production, because we're really talking the same language. Somebody with a fancy typewriter and a good grasp of sentence structure will get some jobs, but only some, and only for a while. It comes down to creativity, ability to work hard, and ability to interpret the desires of clients, and maintain relationships. 

I have no idea why they incorporated. Pointless at this juncture. A lot of people are more in love with the idea of starting a business than actually doing the work associated with the business. 

Margins can be good in video, but it depends on the area you're working in. I've been in the fortunate situation of having every single check get bigger over the years, even as I hire more and more subs, but at some point I'll plateau out, and I stress about every penny. I try to do 2 or 3 big jobs per year.


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## bluegreenturtle (Apr 18, 2012)

Looking over my post I think it's a little scattered and more positive than I meant it to be. 

I have a niche. If they want to succeed in video production they must find a niche. Very few people who don't have established relationships in niche markets will go anywhere. There's just too many people with a camera and a semblance of understanding how to use it, which is 1% of success. With due respect to still photographers (which is a rough and tumble business for sure) videography is an entirely different animal - it just happens that we use cameras too, but otherwise there's not a terrible lot that is in common between the two. Too many still photographers don't understand that, and seek to flesh out their business by joining the video biz. 

"What do you mean I don't get it? I've got a (insert camera here) which is the best you can get (in still photo budgets). I've got all these lenses which cost me a fortune. I learned how to frame and focus perfectly. I know color, I know angles, I know exactly how to capture a subject in a great moment. I even upgraded my little POS tripod that I rarely use to one o' them fancy heavy ones that you video guys use." 

When it comes to having an effective video CAREER all of those things, including the learning the hard way all of the skills (framing, color, space, DOF) that go into still photography are basically equivalent of wanting to become a writer and having 1) a pencil 2) a piece of paper 3) being able to read and write. You've got the tools, now you need to learn a whole lot more, some people will never effectively master the "whole lot more." You have to learn story, editing (and by that, I mean not just cutting something together, but how to turn 2 hours of people talking about a subject into 30 seconds that are effective) how to move the camera through space, how to move your subjects through space, music (and how it works with images) audio editing, recording, fixing, etc etc etc. It's a complex biz, just learning and keeping track of the basics. 

I tell my clients this: if you were starting a car magazine, who would you hire as Editor in Chief? Somebody who really knew how to write well, or somebody who knew cars inside and out and was passionate about them? It's the same with video - you can't just want to start a general video production business, or you're just another slob with a camera. You must have an area, an area that you are expert in or at least passionate about, or all you'll ever be doing is making pretty moving pictures.


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## PictoPete (Apr 19, 2012)

Recommend them several T2i or 60D bodies from the Canon Loyalty Program.

http://www.overclock.net/t/1088761/canon-loyalty-program-faqs-originally-from-potn

$384 for a refurb T2i?
$640 for a refurb 60D??

I recommend Magic Lantern for additional dSLR video features on the popular Canon cameras:
http://magiclantern.wikia.com/wiki/Unified
Check out what it has to offer.

I avoid the T3i because of the noisy preamps. However, if you use an external recorder and sync in post using PluralEyes plug-in, then that shouldn't be a problem. T3i doesn't allow headphone monitoring with ML either (but 60D and T2i do..) Bummer.

Amazing.
I realize people may sometimes shun refurb units for being "used" or potentially a ticking time bomb, but that's not how I see them. If anyone, I trust Canon to bring these back up to grade. Plus, Canon some of these cameras were only used a few times or not used at all.. and they replaced the batteries too and all that, so it's essentially "as new". Canon would no doubt sell these units as new units if the law allowed it.  I would honestly not worry one bit.

14-day return policy; 90-day warranty. If the 1-year warranty matters to them, then buy all means buy new from an ESTABLISHED, authorized retailer. If they intend to buy used anyway, redirect them to the CLP. Win-win in any case!

Squeeze every penny. Tascam, Zoom, and Sony make some great audio recorders. Zoom and Tascam have high end portable recorders that have XLR built-in if that matters for up to about $300.. otherwise, you can get by between $70-$200 for their other recorders which record audio in just as great quality.

I had a friend recommend this fluid head. You can't use a standard photo tripod for video if you intend to do any kind of panning.. Gotta have that fluid head.
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003HNJ5HQ/ref=ox_sc_act_title_1?ie=UTF8&m=ATVPDKIKX0DER

If they're doing "run and gun" work, then I suggest a mid-range zoom lens like the Sigma 17-50mm/f2.8 OS or Canon 17-55mm/f2.8 IS. Otherwise, you can make do with several primes.. the 35+50+85 set seems to be popular. If they really wanna crunch some dollars, then they can purchase some adapters for older non-EF mount lenses and essentially get "every lens you need" under the sun for a few hundred dollars. You lose AF and have to take into consideration some other sacrifices that I don't know firsthand having not used them..

Any other questions? I'm just throwing in my two cents.

EDIT: There's a high-quality $50 follow-focus going around?? Anyone have experience with it?
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/2120229387/50-dollar-follow-focus


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## cayenne (Apr 19, 2012)

bluegreenturtle said:


> <snip>
> 
> I have no idea why they incorporated. Pointless at this juncture. A lot of people are more in love with the idea of starting a business than actually doing the work associated with the business.
> 
> <snip>


Actually, if you're at all serious about doing any kind of business....I think one of the *smartest* things you can do, it incorporate.

I formed my corporation (is cheap to do on your own, not that much more if you want to get a lawyer to do it for you).....and opted for the subchapter "S" corporation. I do contracting work through this..single owner, single employee.

This has MANY advantages. First off, they (if they do the S corp) can start writing off all kinds of stuff, especially the equipment. Even if they don't bring in a cent the first year...they can show good losses/expenses and will reap the benefits on their taxes. Write off mileage (keep a log book in the car). Also with this type of corp...you only get taxes once on the funds that come through...they all fall through to personal taxes at EOY....

Another VERY nice benefit to this set up is, you can save a great deal on self employment taxes (FICA, Medicare/Medicade). You only have to pay yourself a 'reasonable' salary...read up on it and having a CPA isn't a bad idea either (you can write them off too)...but for hypothetical example.

Say you bill and bring in $100K. Without taking into any account deductions.....
Let's say you pay yourself a 'reasonable' salary of about $60K. You pay state, local, federal, SE taxes on that $60K.

At EOY, the remaining $40K falls through to you...and you pay state/fed/local taxes on that too...however, you don't have to pay employment taxes on that (SS, Medicare...etc).

If you don't incorporate, or just go normal LLC and the like...you would have to play employment taxes on the whole $100K.

See the savings there?

But also, incorporating...if nothing else, gives you limited liability...if you get sued, the company loses, but you can't get sued out of your house and savings...it is just good legal shelter to have in today's litigious society.

And again...it is also about the last way a person can keep more of their hard earned $$ from the tax man.

HTH,

cayenne 8)


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## bluegreenturtle (Apr 19, 2012)

I've formed many corporations. The only benefit to the S corp structure if you don't have employees is the owner draw benefit you mention, although that falls away after $106,000 of income anyway. The rest can be utilized by LLC's and sole proprietors just fine. If you have employees the S corp is helpful because you'll be doing payroll anyway. 

I'm just saying it's pointless for people that this juncture to do this - it sounds like they don't have a clue. There's only 2 rules in partnerships: 1)all partnerships end 2)see rule one. I wouldn't get legally entangled with a bunch of people, especially very young people, in a corporation before they even started working. 80% chance after the first year some of the people don't want to be involved anymore with each other, 90% chance that after a year of doing video production some of them never want to touch a camera again.


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## muncisorul (May 21, 2012)

Indeed a interesting topic, and the field is full of producers but only a handful are really great producers and create masterpieces.A friend of mine is working at a video production New York firm and he agrees that most movies today are such low quality compared to the old classics.


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## cayenne (May 21, 2012)

muncisorul said:


> Indeed a interesting topic, and the field is full of producers but only a handful are really great producers and create masterpieces.A friend of mine is working at a video production New York firm and he agrees that most movies today are such low quality compared to the old classics.



Well, first you need to start with a good quality story....then.....

;D


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## DB (May 21, 2012)

They should look at buying a couple of Rebel T2i's with 50mm f1.8 mkII lens (total cost < $1,000). Remember the 9-second rule in video - never have the camera on one location/person for more than 9 secs (no matter what they're doing), use multi-cam to increase number of straight-cuts, plus looks infinitely more professional.

A Zoom H4n (<$300) 4Ch audio recorder is a necessity (or something similar), then pick up some used shotgun mics and some XLR extension cables (<$10 each).

Forget lighting for now, just too expensive for their budget, use 'daylight' its free!

Finally, they need to seriously consider what editing software they're going to use, after all, Adobe Production Premium CS6 would blow 100% of their budget, not to mention having really powerful PC/Mac to edit (need a serious graphics card either NVidia or AMD with at least 1 Gig of Video RAM to process HD video files). I spent 1.5 times their total budget on a custom-built PC that runs Adobe Premiere Pro with GPU-acceleration (utilising fully the Mercury Playback Engine). My other computer a 3Gig dual-core 64-bit Windows Professional laptop will not even playback full HD video in real-time (and it has a 17" 1600x1024 screen).

Seriously, they need to consider computer hardware + software too (unless they already have them) and I would advise doubling or trebling that budget. No point capturing great 1080p video if you cannot process or edit it.


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## westr70 (May 21, 2012)

DB said:


> Finally, they need to seriously consider what editing software they're going to use, after all, Adobe Production Premium CS6 would blow 100% of their budget, not to mention having really powerful PC/Mac to edit (need a serious graphics card either NVidia or AMD with at least 1 Gig of Video RAM to process HD video files). I spent 1.5 times their total budget on a custom-built PC that runs Adobe Premiere Pro with GPU-acceleration (utilising fully the Mercury Playback Engine). My other computer a 3Gig dual-core 64-bit Windows Professional laptop will not even playback full HD video in real-time (and it has a 17" 1600x1024 screen).
> 
> Seriously, they need to consider computer hardware + software too (unless they already have them) and I would advise doubling or trebling that budget. No point capturing great 1080p video if you cannot process or edit it.



I second DB's recommendations. I would also recommend using lynda.com monthly subscription to learn Premiere Pro if you don't already know it. I spend a weekend with it and got the basics down with no sweat. Now of course I have to go back over it again and again (the tutorials) until I really get it! It's worth the extra money to have a no nonsense tutorial you can access day or night (assumes internet connection). You can even "rent" premiere pro from adobe if you don't want or need it full time. Good luck and have fun.


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## cayenne (May 21, 2012)

westr70 said:


> DB said:
> 
> 
> > Finally, they need to seriously consider what editing software they're going to use, after all, Adobe Production Premium CS6 would blow 100% of their budget, not to mention having really powerful PC/Mac to edit (need a serious graphics card either NVidia or AMD with at least 1 Gig of Video RAM to process HD video files). I spent 1.5 times their total budget on a custom-built PC that runs Adobe Premiere Pro with GPU-acceleration (utilising fully the Mercury Playback Engine). My other computer a 3Gig dual-core 64-bit Windows Professional laptop will not even playback full HD video in real-time (and it has a 17" 1600x1024 screen).
> ...



Can someone point out the primary differences that Adobe Premier has over Final Cut Pro X, that warrants the huge pricing difference?

Thanks,

C


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## bp (May 21, 2012)

You might want to turn to Google for FCPX vs Premiere comparisons

The nutshell version of it is Apple totally revamped FCPX to cater to the amateur Uncle Bob crowd, lowering the price and leaving out a lot of pro-level features and alienating droves of professionals who've jumped ship to either Premiere or Avid.


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## cayenne (May 22, 2012)

bp said:


> You might want to turn to Google for FCPX vs Premiere comparisons
> 
> The nutshell version of it is Apple totally revamped FCPX to cater to the amateur Uncle Bob crowd, lowering the price and leaving out a lot of pro-level features and alienating droves of professionals who've jumped ship to either Premiere or Avid.



Well, from what I have read so far in researching this....it seemed to me that FCPX has of now..added in all the things that the pros were mad about being left out at the time of FCPX's debut.

About the only thing I can see people complaining about...was that the format of the application itself (layout, magnetic timeline) was a new paradigm in how to interact with the GUI itself.....people b!tching about having to have an old dog learn new tricks so to speak.

Since I'm new.....learning one or the other is no big deal to me.

But I was wondering if there is a serious lack of functionality that FCPX has that Adobe Premier does have...and from what I've read, it doesn't......but hoping someone with Adobe/FCPX hands on experience could tell me what else FCPX is missing in functionalty....after the updates subsequent to the debut (multi-cams, etc).

Thanks!

C


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## The_Arsonist (May 22, 2012)

bp said:


> You might want to turn to Google for FCPX vs Premiere comparisons
> 
> The nutshell version of it is Apple totally revamped FCPX to cater to the amateur Uncle Bob crowd, lowering the price and leaving out a lot of pro-level features and alienating droves of professionals who've jumped ship to either Premiere or Avid.



There is nothing missing from FCPX that anyone with a budget of under $20k would miss. Most of the features of FC7 are there, they have just either been tweaked, moved, or vastly improved. The multi cam, audio sync, and little interface tweaks make me wonder how I ever survived in 7.

I can't speak to the differences between FCPX and Premiere, as the last time I used Premiere was 8 years ago. Rather than focus on the differences, maybe the question is, can I get professional results from FCPX/Premiere? I would say yes to both. It's kind of like the differences between Nikon and Canon


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## cayenne (May 22, 2012)

The_Arsonist said:


> bp said:
> 
> 
> > You might want to turn to Google for FCPX vs Premiere comparisons
> ...



Cool!!

Well, I think I'm gonna try the FCPX for the 30 day trial, and then likely drop the $300 on it.
From the tutorials I've been watching, it appears to be more than enough for me to get a solid start with.....and concepts like color correction, audio dub/sync, green screens...etc...etc....are common to either platform, and seems to be mostly a manner of learning where each one places the buttons to do what you want.

C


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## The_Arsonist (May 22, 2012)

Yes, I highly recommend walking through everything with tutorials. My usual approach of figuring it out on my own frustrated me to the point of writing it off when it was released. Now that I've read up and watched videos, I appreciate it much more


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## The_Arsonist (May 22, 2012)

Also, not sure if Premiere still has the demo, but you can try out a month of Creative Cloud for $50 and test drive the whole CS6 suite


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## DB (May 23, 2012)

The_Arsonist said:


> Also, not sure if Premiere still has the demo, but you can try out a month of Creative Cloud for $50 and test drive the whole CS6 suite



FYI, if you're a student (even part-time) or a teacher, you can purchase a complete copy of Adobe Production Premium CS6 (with After Effects/Premiere Pro/Photoshop/Illustrator etc.) for less than $350 (or perhaps someone in the family is in full-time college education, that way you get a fully licensed copy at a sensible price).


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## XSHINERX (Jun 11, 2012)

As a video producer, I would say that if you shoot the crap out of everything,make sure its in focus and exposed well enough, make sure your audio is clean,then you can work miracles in post. As far as final cut 10 and adobe premiere, go with final cut x, learn how to edit, if you outgrow FC, skip premiere and learn Avid, thats what grown ups use, to edit!


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## HurtinMinorKey (Jun 12, 2012)

XSHINERX said:


> skip premiere and learn Avid, thats what grown ups use, to edit!



What can Avid do that Premiere CS6 can't do?


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## Policar (Jul 2, 2012)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> XSHINERX said:
> 
> 
> > skip premiere and learn Avid, thats what grown ups use, to edit!
> ...



It's much better suited for a larger production with more editors working on the same project and with other media sourced out to other programs.

In terms of simple cutting, anything that can output an EDL will do.

It also depends who you consider to be "grown ups." A LOT of tv, even really huge budget stuff, is edited in FCP7 and finished in Smoke, but most large films are still cut in Avid. If you're looking to work as a movie editor, knowing Avid might be more helpful to you... For an independent production company, Premiere Pro might be the best choice--it's very fast, integrates well with the Creative Suite, and for editing Red footage it's unparalleled--so long as you don't try to bring any non-Adobe software into the mix.


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## wickidwombat (Jul 3, 2012)

hello video people i'm a complete video novice but want to do a little dabelling in video too
probably my biggest issue is holding the camera still enough so i'm looking for a cheap stabiliser rig
what is everyones opinion on something like this?

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DSLR-Video-Camera-Shoulder-Mount-Film-Production-Cage-Rig-/251098196888?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item3a769e6b98

also looking for a not too expensive mic and external audio recorder but soooo many to choose from its mind boggling


what is the difference between the rode NTG-1 and the NTG-2

is a tascam DR-40 a good recorder?


hows this combo
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Tascam-DR-40-4-Track-Recorder-w-Rode-NTG-1-Shotgun-Microphone-/360395822178?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53e943d462


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## thundermonkey (Jul 3, 2012)

If you are doing run and gun work you might prefer to get this: http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/737980-REG/Manfrotto_561BHDV_1_Fluid_Video_Monopod_W_Head.html


Tascam is supposed to be good, but I personally went the H4N route.

As for mic, I go with the Rode VMP. It has a +20 DB switch allowing you to keep the recording volume on the camera low, meaning you won't get that hiss from the preamp, meaning in a pinch you could use the audio from the camera direct no problem.

Ah, the things I wish I didn't have to learn on my own. :


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## paul13walnut5 (Jul 3, 2012)

I prefered the Rode NTG-2 fr my DSLR (behaves very like the Sennheiser K6/ME66 I also use) has a balanced cable run with XLRs into your zoom/tascam/beachtek.

The VMP might be ok on camera (urggggh, on camera - breathing noises, handling noises, focus noises, iris noises, crap perspective) but I would save the money and get rycote micro windjammer for your front mic, and put the cash saved towards a good set of headphones. The cable run from the VMP is not balanced, if you used it off camera as close perspective mic (that is the correct way to mic) you would be able to pick up mobile phone calls on the extension cable. Not really. But almost. The VMP is a toy. On camera micing is fine for ambient. 

Re: Supports. Video monopod is good shout, I also have a fig rig. Camera cages... not my thing. And decent ones aren't cheap. Kind of defeat one of the key advantages of DSLR shooting - low cost and small form.

A lot of these rigs are so pimped out their users need to get tramp stamps, fedora hats and mink coats just to fit in.


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## wickidwombat (Jul 3, 2012)

cool thanks for the info, I'm not quite sure I understand the running the mic into the camera and then into the recorder why would you not be able to do this with the Rode NTG-1? the reason i like that combo is it seems like a decent deal

I dont want to spend too much on video stuff since i shoot still but wanted to dabble with some video and have a play around with it since the 5Ds are supposed to be so good for video. but by the same token I know the thing i'm going to have to control is wobbly footage

I have a solid tripod with the novoflex magicball head already so i'll have a go with that first and see how it goes before I look at a video head 

but as far as some sort of should mounted rig its just downright bewildering


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## paul13walnut5 (Jul 4, 2012)

Ntg-1 is phantom powered only: you would need a suitable power source, tascams and zooms with xlrs will also provide phantom power, just take back up batteries.

Ntg-2 can take phantom, or be powered by internal AA.

From what you've written I'm not sure if you are proposing to daisy chain devices...

What body are you using? Is it one with a headphone output?

I personally would seek to record via a device with headphone socket, so you can monitor the audio.

A zoom has this and the 5d3, 1dx and 1dc have this, so theres nothing stopping you recording directly into the body so long as your cable run is short.

Rifle mics hear differently from our ears. Youneed to monitor.

As with most mics you want to be as close as possible to the source- best levels, least environmental noise and best chance of aiming the mic properly (rifle mics ate very directional)


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## wickidwombat (Jul 4, 2012)

paul13walnut5 said:


> Ntg-1 is phantom powered only: you would need a suitable power source, tascams and zooms with xlrs will also provide phantom power, just take back up batteries.
> 
> Ntg-2 can take phantom, or be powered by internal AA.
> 
> ...



What is phantom power? :-[

I have 2 5Dmk2 and a 5Dmk3 and a 1Dmk3 which i'll shoot time lapse stills with

i was planning on sticking the rode mic on a pole with the external recorder, does this mean i would need a seperate power supply?

maybe better off spending the bit extra on the NTG-2 then to be able to use AA

I like that that deal is only $400 for both the mic and recorder 

I got those lavalier mics and the blue fire for iphone recommended on page 1 
they arrived yesterday and I had a bit of a play with them yesterday sound is not bad, better than just trying to record from the camera but obviously if people are moving around they wont be any good


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## paul13walnut5 (Jul 4, 2012)

> What is phantom power? :-[



Power supplied to condenser mics from a device from which the microphone is plugged into. Most professional broadcast cameras supply phantom power, and most decent condenser mics are able to accept phantom power.



> I have 2 5Dmk2 and a 5Dmk3 and a 1Dmk3 which i'll shoot time lapse stills with



5Dmk3 has headphone socket. It's imperitive to monitor audio, so this is the camera I would use where audio is critical.



> i was planning on sticking the rode mic on a pole with the external recorder, does this mean i would need a seperate power supply?



The external recorder may supply phantom power, but it will also probably zap the battery by doing so.
It makes no sense to have the recorder at a boompoles length.

:This makes it difficult to see the recorders controls, specifically audio level (which should be manual) and record status, battery life.

:Makes it difficult to run headphones so you can hear what is being recorded (you need to hear what the mic hears. If it's close it may pick up breathing, or fabric rustle or jewellery jangle etc) and the mic pick up pattern is very very different to what we hear.



> maybe better off spending the bit extra on the NTG-2 then to be able to use AA



I would say so.



> I like that that deal is only $400 for both the mic and recorder



The video mic is adequate for camera top run and gunning ambient sound. It isn't designed for anything more specialist. 



> I got those lavalier mics and the blue fire for iphone recommended on page 1
> they arrived yesterday and I had a bit of a play with them yesterday sound is not bad, better than just trying to record from the camera but obviously if people are moving around they wont be any good



I don't know the product so cannot comment. I use Sony ECM-77's for cabled lavalier, and Sennheiser EW112's for wireless lavalier. They are expensive, but in your situation I would sell one of the 5D2s and buy some decent sound gear.


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## wickidwombat (Jul 5, 2012)

thanks for all the help Paul

I'm mostly a still shooter so no selling a 5Dmk2 yet
just going to be playing around with learning video and doing a few things for friends
however I like to do things properly which i why i want to get some decent stuff

from looking atr demos i quite like that tascam unit and its well priced it has headphone jacks
(I wasnt going to hang that up the pole with the mic i was going to get an XLR cable)
thanks for clearing up the phantom power

So the main differences between the rode NTG1 and 2 is that using the 1 will drain the battery on the tascam sooner however they are equivalent as far as audio quality goes?

will a monopod be enough for hand held mic boom? or do i need to get a dedicated one? I've seen ones with XLR cables internal which look like they might be more convenient to use

also a dead cat on the mic is a good idea? especially for out doors i guess

so currrently I am planning to use the 5Dmk3 for run and gun video, 5Dmk2 for stuff off tripod, 1Dmk3 for timelapse off tripod
external mic on pole and external recorder
this means 2 sets of headphones are needed 1 for the 5Dmk3 and 1 for the external recorder 
what would you recomend for decent quality and not silly expensive headphones? I know audio stuff can go to insane crazy expensive prices 

I also need some kind of support to keep the 5Dmk3 steady during shooting a shoulder rig of somesort i guess
there seem to be billions of different ones on ebay

thanks again for all the advice 

oh I also have access to a 600D which i notice will run magic lantern 2.2 I tried an earlier version of ML on my 5D2 but was not impressed with it the new version looks much slicker its just not out for the 5Dmk2 yet


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## paul13walnut5 (Jul 5, 2012)

> So the main differences between the rode NTG1 and 2 is that using the 1 will drain the battery on the tascam sooner however they are equivalent as far as audio quality goes?



Yep.



> will a monopod be enough for hand held mic boom? or do i need to get a dedicated one? I've seen ones with XLR cables internal which look like they might be more convenient to use



Are you shooting drama? If not I wouldn't bother booming. It's really another person to boom. You can't do it all.

Monopods are too short. You are as well with a mic stand with boom arm. Place the weight over one leg and thats it. One less body. Decent off camera sound.



> also a dead cat on the mic is a good idea? especially for out doors i guess



Yep, the NTG's come with a foam cover, which should be removed indoors, the foam is ok outside in good conditions, the dead cat is what you want for windy conditions. I use a rycote softee and suspension grip, rode do their own equivalents, which I haven't used. I can vouch that the rycote works brilliantly in severe conditions. Which we have a lot in Scotland.



> external mic on pole and external recorder
> this means 2 sets of headphones are needed 1 for the 5Dmk3 and 1 for the external recorder
> what would you recomend for decent quality and not silly expensive headphones? I know audio stuff can go to insane crazy expensive prices



The go to headphones for location video are sennheiser HD-25-II's. There is a cheaper SP version, and some folk like the marginally cheaper Beyer Dynamic DT-100s.

If these are well beyond budget then the AKG-K450's are actually pretty good, closed back and comfortable.
If you go much cheaper then they will be rubbish. Avoid in ear (uncomfortable after a while) and fashion headphones.



> I also need some kind of support to keep the 5Dmk3 steady during shooting a shoulder rig of somesort i guess
> there seem to be billions of different ones on ebay



Fig rig or video monopod. I personally don't like rigs.


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## wickidwombat (Jul 5, 2012)

awesome thanks for all the help!
those AKG headphones look good only $50 each on ebay from china!
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/160730885661?ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1423.l2649

I have an external battery pack I made for driving studio strobes in the field (1000W inverter and 2 SLA golf buggy batteries) which would be easily enought to power the tascam and mic with an AC adaptor if it were stationary, I can probably use a light C stand to mount the mic and just velcro tie an XLR cable to it
still portable enough to be able to relocate from location to location as the battery pack is all stored in a lowepro nova 200AW bag, quite heavy though but portable. I also have tons of AA eneloops for flashes

decent price on the tascam DR40
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/New-Tascam-DR-40-Handheld-4-Track-Recorder-/271010197591?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f19777057

plus rode NTG-2 including shock absorber
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Rode-NTG-2-Shotgun-Mic-XLR-3-5mm-Adapter-Shockmount-/360462356176?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item53ed3b0ed0

only 50 bucks more than that other combo


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## paul13walnut5 (Jul 5, 2012)

I'm maybe overstating the phantom power battery drain, Tascam do their own extended battery pack (takes 6 AA's rather than the standard 3) called the BP-6AA.

Try it with 3AA's on a test record and see how long you'll get. The less kit to carry and go wrong the better.


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## The_Arsonist (Jul 5, 2012)

The Sony MDR is a pretty standard monitoring headphone for $80
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-MDR-V6-Monitor-Headphones-Voice/dp/B00001WRSJ/ref=sr_1_1?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1341465270&sr=1-1&keywords=sony+mdr-v6


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## mcasey (Mar 1, 2013)

I am planning to start my video production company. Can some body please tell me how costly this affair will be? Thanks in advance.
____________________
video production miami


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## cayenne (Mar 1, 2013)

mcasey said:


> I am planning to start my video production company. Can some body please tell me how costly this affair will be? Thanks in advance.
> ____________________
> video production miami




Hmm...well, can you tell us what you have hardware-wise to start with at this point?

If starting from "0"....you've got a few $$'s your gonna have to throw in early.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 1, 2013)

It might be better to start a new topic, this one is a year old.


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## neosec (May 19, 2013)

_The Blair Witch Project_ comes to mind. Talent can take one a lot farther than equipment. Best of luck to them.


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## thompsonhall (Aug 20, 2013)

Video production is really very successful and it has been proved by many businesses.


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## mkabi (Aug 20, 2013)

In terms of cost, my advice... especially if you're on a limited budget. 
Figure out how much it cost to rent equipment and add that into your prices.

In terms of owning equipment of your own, buy quality stuff from the beginning. Like if you have enough money to buy a 5D Mark III or 7D, then get it.

Its either that or save money so you can get get quality stuff...
Because you don't want to buy equipment like a t2i, and then a year or 2 later you want to upgrade... then you're selling the t2i for half the price you bought it for (losing half the budget that you used to purchase it)...

Till then, rent!


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## mkabi (Aug 20, 2013)

mkabi said:


> In terms of cost, my advice... especially if you're on a limited budget.
> Figure out how much it cost to rent equipment and add that into your prices.
> 
> In terms of owning equipment of your own, buy quality stuff from the beginning. Like if you have enough money to buy a 5D Mark III or 7D, then get it.
> ...



I forgot to say... more than just camera equipment.... look into getting good post-production equipment. 
Cause you have to know... especially with video production, most of the time you'll be spending it in front of a computer.


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## cayenne (Aug 21, 2013)

mkabi said:


> mkabi said:
> 
> 
> > In terms of cost, my advice... especially if you're on a limited budget.
> ...



I'll second that heartily!!

I started out my editing with FCPX, which works pretty well on the mac and is dead cheap compared to other alternatives.

And if you're not used to editing in the more traditional track based editors (Premier, Avid, FCP7), then the learning curve is quite low.

I've recently gotten a deal (I applied for admission to a local university, just to get a .edu email and picture student ID, to use to get educational versions of Adobe products, but not planning to enroll in any classes), and just got Adobe Production Pro Suite (CS6)...(I'm not going CC, don't want to rent software just yet). 

Anyway, I've been trying to learn Premier and After Effects.....very powerful stuff. A bit more of a learning curve, but wow..neat stuff you can do with those.

Also, once you get going, you might want to play a bit more with color grading, to give your videos a "look". There is a very powerful, free program called Davinci Resolve Lite. Very cool tool.

You need some horsepower in your editing computer...so, do a bit of research which ever platform you go with (mac or pc)...

The new mac pro, when it comes out, is likely to be a VERY nice editing tool.

HTH,

cayenne


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 21, 2013)

Wow, advice for a one year old post. If he hasn't figured it out by now, he never will.


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