# Thoughts on 430EX



## unfocused (Jan 25, 2011)

I'd like to get the opinion/advice of others on the forum. 

I have a 580 EXII which I really love. I'm thinking of adding another flash to use as a slave/fill. Leaning toward the 430EX II. Since I can use the 580 or my 7D as the remote trigger and won't need as high of a guide number for the second strobe, I'd rather save the $170 difference between the 430 and 580.

Can someone give me a good reason why a second 580 EXII would be a better choice, especially given that I can almost buy two 430s for the same price?


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## kubelik (Jan 25, 2011)

it just comes down to if you need the additional output that the 580 EXII gives you. personally, I do exactly what you noted; I have a 580 EXII to serve as the master and run three 430 EXII's. 

for the price difference between a 580 EX II, you can almost buy two 430 EX II's, which gives you a lot more flexibility in lighting setups. you can also put both of them on one umbrella to get more output than a single 580 EXII as well.


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## pgabor (Jan 25, 2011)

I shot over 15000 pics with my 430exII, and i never felt that i need more firepower or faster recycle time. (but i used it mainly on parties, where was ceiling and relatively small distances, so i never needed the bouncer nor weather sealing) My brother has a 580exII, so i know what it its like. The only thing you may miss is the built in bouncer, but if you will use it as a off camera flash, then i think you wont have any problem with it.


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## bvukich (Jan 25, 2011)

Since you already have a 580, and the added bonus of the 7d being able to trigger, I would absolutely go with the 430 (or two). With good batteries (I use Powerex, and love them), the 430EXII will cycle pretty fast.

A $ per Ws comparison greatly favors the 430, and gives you the flexibility of having more individual strobes (if that's a benefit to your lighting style). Most of the feature advantages of the 580 are negated by the fact that A. you have one already, and B. you can master with the 7d.


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## bvukich (Jan 25, 2011)

These are what I use:

http://www.batteriesplus.com/product_search/36025-PowerEx-Rechargeable-NiMH-Battery-AA-4--Pack-2700-mAh-DASH--DASH-PowerEx-MHRAA4.aspx

Disclaimer: I work in the B+ corporate office. My posts here do not represent them. Etc, etc, so on and so forth.


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## unfocused (Jan 26, 2011)

Thanks everyone. I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something and this confirms that.


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## gmrza (Jan 27, 2011)

unfocused said:


> Thanks everyone. I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something and this confirms that.



I would consider the following:
- Is build quality an issue to you? The 430 feels decidedly flimsy compared to the 580. Also, is weather sealing an issue to you?
- Is strobe flash a requirement for you?
- Do you need your flashes to be able to put out exactly the same amount of light? - If so, stick to 580EXIIs
- The point about how much light output you need has already been mentioned
- The 7D can't trigger a flash that is behind the camera
- Will you work a lot in bright daylight - i.e. overpowering the sun - if so get every bit of power you can
- Do you use light modifiers on your speedlites? They will eat up a lot of flash output.
- Do you need a PC sync socket on all your flashes - if so, the 580EXII is the only choice for you.

FWIW, the speedlites I have access to are a 580EXII, a 430EX and a 430EZ (yes!). I make do with those out of necessity at the moment, and most of the off-camera flash work I do is manual (using RF triggers and optical slaves).
What will probably be the trigger to buy another 580EXII is for my wife's work to be able to do decent off-camera TTL flash work, where the power of the 580EXII is a factor - especially using a light modifier (probably a brolly) and balancing flash with ambient light.


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## simplexityphoto (Mar 9, 2011)

gmrza said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks everyone. I wanted to make sure I wasn't missing something and this confirms that.
> ...



Want to bet on that??? it actually depends on the situation. I have often times use both my 430 and 580 from behind my on me 7d as remote flashes. if you are working with a bright surface in front of you (one major reason to use off camera flashes) then the reflective proporties of the surface will allow you to trigger the remote flashes


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## mogud (Mar 9, 2011)

I was ready to buy the 430EX but decided on the 580EX I (used) and added the 580EX II subsequently. I'm glad I did go this route. The differences for me that made me decide on the 580 are the guide number/power of the 580EX's and using them with umbrellas, no white bounce card in the 430EX, AF assist for the 430EX is 9 pt and 45 pt for the 580EX and recycle time is much faster with the 580EX. I would consider a used 580EX I rather than the 430EX II. The weight of the 580EX I is similar to the weight of the 430EX II.


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## bvukich (Mar 9, 2011)

mogud said:


> I was ready to buy the 430EX but decided on the 580EX I (used) and added the 580EX II subsequently. I'm glad I did go this route. The differences for me that made me decide on the 580 are the guide number/power of the 580EX's and using them with umbrellas, no white bounce card in the 430EX, AF assist for the 430EX is 9 pt and 45 pt for the 580EX and recycle time is much faster with the 580EX. I would consider a used 580EX I rather than the 430EX II. The weight of the 580EX I is similar to the weight of the 430EX II.



You can also use an external battery pack on the 580, which reduces cycle times, and increases battery life. You can get generic versions from your favorite Chinese dropship site (I've had good luck with dealextreme) for less than the cost of the batteries you put in them.


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## awinphoto (Mar 9, 2011)

for my 2 cents, I also have a 7D and went the 2 430's route. I had a metz 58 flash which matched the output of the canon 580, however I NEVER in practice ever needed all that power. Keep 2 things in mind. You can get 2 430's for almost the price of the 580, and secondly, with the flash off camera, if you need more power, you can always move the flash closer to the subject (provided it is not in the frame unless you like kinda thing). There is a 1 stop difference between the two for the most part however unless you're shooting a lot of modified light set-up such as softboxes/umbrellas/reflectors, the 430 can usually keep up the pace with it's big brother. 

Anyone who have used metz's would think the 430 was built like a tank. It may not be as physically impressive as the 580, but dont overlook this little puppy also. PS regarding not being able to trigger the flash behind your 7D, they must never have shot in a studio or even a small studio. You can trigger them behind the camera as long as there is enough bounce of the flash off the walls. What it cant do is trigger 100% in bright sun far away from the flash. The flash needs to be able to see the flash in that situation. Then again anyone in that situation hopefully would know to use another triggering device i.e. pocket wizards.


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## awinphoto (Mar 9, 2011)

Secondly, I recall earlier in this thread someone brought up strobe... I'm not sure if your talking strobe as in high powered studio flash (i.e. white lightning, alien bee's, etc) or if you mean stroboscopic mode where you have a pulse style flash within a single exposure. If you are talking about the former, the 7D has a mode in it's flash to either have the on camera flash do the strobo mode OR you can set it up to have the 430 do it triggered by the 7D. It may not be as intuitive to set up as the 580 and you have to set it up completely within the 7D flash menu's but that was one function I was on the fence about with the flashes but when I saw I could use the 430's with that and use multiple flashes doing the same thing... That's what sold me on them.


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 14, 2011)

awinphoto said:


> ...stroboscopic mode where you have a pulse style flash within a single exposure. If you are talking about the former, the 7D has a mode in it's flash to either have the on camera flash do the strobo mode OR you can set it up to have the 430 do it triggered by the 7D.



Good find! It's called Multi Mode for those who want more info. Check p.116 of the 7D manual. The 5DII does not have this feature. I wonder if the newer bodies that also have wireless flash control (60D, T3i) also do a stroboscopic flash?


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## dougkerr (Mar 14, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> The 5DII does not have this feature.


Are you sure that multi mode (a feature of the flash unit, not of the camera) cannot be invoked from the 5DII?

The manual for the 5DII shows (p. 105, item 3) the ability to set the *flash mode* on a 430EX (multi mode is one of those). Unlike the 7D manual, it doesn't mention what all the choices are at all. But I would have no reason that the choices are somehow more limited when being set from the 5DII than from the 7D.

Best regards,

Doug


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## dougkerr (Mar 14, 2011)

Well, I see I may have been barking up the wrong tree. The manual for the 430EX flash unit makes no mention of its having a multi-flash mode.

So I guess now my question becomes, "using the 430EX with the EOS 7D, can a multi-flash mode be invoked (from the Camera)? On a 5DII?"

Again, the mention of that mode in the 7D manual does not mean that it is available on any flash unit (even all those that generally can be controlled from a modern EOS body). The manual cautions that the available modes vary with the flash unit.

I should actually not have poked my nose into this at all, having neither a 430EX, an EOS 5D Mark II, nor an EOS 7D!

Carry on.

Best regards,

Doug


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 14, 2011)

dougkerr said:


> I should actually not have poked my nose into this at all, having neither a 430EX, an EOS 5D Mark II, nor an EOS 7D!



I have all three, but in fact, I probably should not have poked my nose in until I actually tried it out, as opposed to simply checking the manuals. I'll find some time in the next day or two to give it a real-world test.


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## awinphoto (Mar 14, 2011)

I know it sounds crazy, especially since it isn't an advertised feature, however when controlled by a 580 that is set on multiflash/stroboscopic, the 430 takes on the same characteristics... if you look at http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/ and scroll down to the multi flash area, it shows the 420 and 430 as supported flashes. I played with it just long enough to see that it worked, however I will play with it with my flash tonight. I got my 7d at my office but no 430 with me at my office to test right now. I will let you know either way tonight/tomorrow. 



dougkerr said:


> Well, I see I may have been barking up the wrong tree. The manual for the 430EX flash unit makes no mention of its having a multi-flash mode.
> 
> So I guess now my question becomes, "using the 430EX with the EOS 7D, can a multi-flash mode be invoked (from the Camera)? On a 5DII?"
> 
> ...


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## dougkerr (Mar 14, 2011)

awinphoto said:


> if you look at http://photonotes.org/articles/eos-flash/ and scroll down to the multi flash area, it shows the 420 and 430 as supported flashes.


I don't find anything on the page that link goes to regarding the multi-burst (stroboscopic) mode.

There is some information about using the units in a multiple-unit situation.

What am I missing here?

Best regards,

Doug


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## awinphoto (Mar 14, 2011)

If you scroll down on the links to part III there is a link for stroboscopic and setting stroboscopic flash. As I said before I will test this again at home with my flashes. I know 100% the oncamera flash does it and that the 430 is capable of it, however it could have been on the camera hot shoe and not wireless... let me play with it and I will let you know my results.


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## Cornershot (Mar 15, 2011)

I have a 430 and a 580 and am glad to have both. The 430 is pretty full featured and a consistent shooter. Very good as a slave. It's also smaller and lighter so an easy flash to carry when you don't need to blast at full power--which is more times than you think. I'd say the main negative for me is not being able to use external power. Sometimes I need fast recycle for work. I need fast more often than that extra stop of light. So I just end up taking the 580 instead. It's nice to have the option of either or both.


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## dougkerr (Mar 15, 2011)

Regarding the matter of multi-flash operation of the Speedlite 430EX, I posted an inquiry on another forum directed to the attention of Chuck Westfall of Canon USA, their Technical Advisor.

**********

From Doug

The Canon Speedlite 430EX is not shown by its manual as providing a multi-flash (so-called "stroboscopic") mode on a "local" basis. However, the manual (p. 27) indicates that this mode may in fact be utilized when using the flash unit as a slave in a Canon wireless flash network with all "Type A" bodies and most "Type B" ("TTL") bodies.

Is this in fact true?

From Chuck:

Yes. It requires a master unit that supports MULTI flash, such as the 580EX II, 580EX, 550EX, or the EOS 7D's built-in flash. (PS: The 60D and T3i built-in flash units can be used as master units, but they do not support MULTI flash.)

From Doug:

In another forum it was commented by one correspondent that the multi-flash ("stroboscopic") mode could be invoked (via the camera flash control menu) when the 430EX was used on an EOS 7D body, but not when used on an EOS 5D Mark II.

Is there in fact ever the opportunity to invoke multi-flash operation of the 430EX (other than perhaps as a slave unit in wireless flash network operation)? If so, in connection with which EOS bodies?

From Chuck:

The only way to achieve multi-flash operation with a 430EX or 430EX II is through use as a slave unit in a wireless flash configuration controlled by one of the eligible master units listed above.

**********

Best regards,

Doug


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 16, 2011)

Thanks, Doug!


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## dougkerr (Mar 25, 2011)

Chuck Westfall of Canon USA has recently advised of a correction to his original summary of the circumstances in which the Speedlite 430EX (and 430EX II) flash units may operate in the multi-flash ("stroboscopic") mode.

He had originally said that the units could operate in that mode only when operating as a slave and the master is a Speedlite 550EX, 580EX, or 580EX II or the onboard flash unit of an EOS 7D.

He now advises that he has determined that in fact the multi-flash mode cannot be utilized by way of the onboard flash unit of an EOS 7D as a master. When that facility is set to the multi-flash mode, its operation as a master is disabled.

Thus, the Speedlite 430EX (or 430EX II) can only operate in the multi-flash mode when operating as a slave and the master is a Speedlite 550EX, 580EX, or 580EX II.

Again, to avert any misunderstanding, the 430EX (or 430EX II) apparently cannot provide the multi-flash mode when being directly operated from any camera, whether or not that camera provides for setting the associated flash.

Chuck's recent notice is here:

http://www.prophotohome.com/forum/canon-1-series-digital-slr-eos-5d/96337-speedlite-430ex-multi-flash-mode-chuck-2.html#post488749

Best regards,

Doug


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## bvukich (Mar 25, 2011)

Doug,

Thanks for dropping all this knowledge on us. You are a true asset to the CR forum community.


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## dougkerr (Mar 25, 2011)

bvukich said:


> Thanks for dropping all this knowledge on us. You are a true asset to the CR forum community.


Thank you so much. I find this forum very useful to my own interests.

Best regards,

Doug


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## K3nt (Mar 31, 2011)

Just wanted to add a little of my own un-worthiness. I have a 430EX II that I use with my 7D. I love it. I really haven't tried the 580 so I can't say how much better that is, but 430 flimsy? I don't find anything flimsy about it. Could the one who stated that please elaborate? 
My guess is that the 580 must be built like a tank to improve in build quality over the 430... ;D


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