# Review: Sony A7R II by LensRentals.com



## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 5, 2015)

```
Joey Miller, a longtime employee of LensRentals.com has completed his brief review of the upcoming Sony A7R II. I have a lot of respect for Joey, he’s a great shooter and shoots a lot of different cameras and mediums. If you want the opinion of a working photographer, his is worthwhile.</p>
<p>From Joey:</p>
<blockquote><p>I really think Sony nailed it with this one. Maybe I wouldn’t shoot roller derby with it yet, but for pretty much everything else, I think this is going to be my go to camera, especially once the lens line up is filled out more. I absolutely love the Sony FE 28mm. The Sony FE 90mm macro is nice, but it’s slow. I had good luck with M mount lenses, though, with the Leica 90mm APO-Cron and Leica 21mm Lux really knocking it out of the park on this high res sensor. If you’ve been waiting for a better alternative to your big, bulky DSLR, this might finally fit the bill. I’ve been hesitant to say that for the a7S, a7R, and the a7 II, even though I love those cameras, but the a7R II, I think this is the one. Try it out ASAP! <a href="http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2015/08/sony-a7r-ii-a-brief-review" target="_blank">Read the full review</a></p></blockquote>
<p><strong>Sony A7R II Body $3198: <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1159878-REG/sony_a7r_mark_ii_digital.html/BI/2466/KBID/3296/DFF/d10-v21-t1-x647086" target="_blank">B&H Photo</a> | <a href="http://www.adorama.com/ISOA7R2.html?kbid=64393" target="_blank">Adorama</a> | <a href="http://amzn.to/1LhKh5l" target="_blank">Amazon</a></strong></p>
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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 5, 2015)

Once they arrive in stock here in Spokane, I'll probably go in and try one. I have big hands and have difficulty with small controls, so the only way is for me to try one.

It seems unlikely that I'd actually buy one though.


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## Maiaibing (Aug 5, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> Joey Miller, a longtime employee of LensRentals.com has completed his brief review of the upcoming Sony A7R II. I have a lot of respect for Joey, he’s a great shooter and shoots a lot of different cameras and mediums. If you want the opinion of a working photographer, his is worthwhile.</p>



Sounds like some of us are in for a treat! ;D

Now if only I did not have to wait so long for mine to fall into my hands... :'(


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## Perio (Aug 5, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Once they arrive in stock here in Spokane, I'll probably go in and try one. I have big hands and have difficulty with small controls, so the only way is for me to try one.
> 
> It seems unlikely that I'd actually buy one though.



For exactly the same reason I went to the B&H store in NYC last weekend. Even though my hands are not large at all (7-7.5 size gloves), all A7 series cameras felt very uncomfortable in the hands. I actually liked how Sony a99 fit into my hands, very nice ergonomics.


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## TeT (Aug 5, 2015)

getting there... (means there for a lot of us)

I have no reason to try one, but am pleased that capabilities are growing in the mirrorless arena...


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## siegsAR (Aug 6, 2015)

I hope A7s II would be as improved as A7R II is, it would be my first mirrorless camera.

A review of the A7R II against the 6D in terms focusing while shooting sports, now that would be fun! ;D


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## Dylan777 (Aug 6, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Once they arrive in stock here in Spokane, I'll probably go in and try one. I have big hands and have difficulty with small controls, so the only way is for me to try one.
> 
> It seems unlikely that I'd actually buy one though.



You mind if I ask, Why a7 series? A7II and A7rII has same body size. Yes, it's smaller than 6D. 

If you chasing after high MP, the 5DsR is really good, plus huge L lenses to chose.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 6, 2015)

siegsAR said:


> I hope A7s II would be as improved as A7R II is, it would be my first mirrorless camera.
> 
> A review of the A7R II against the 6D in terms focusing while shooting sports, now that would be fun! ;D



It's SR2 and I hope it dead wrong ;D
http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sr2-sony-a7sii-will-give-up-the-classic-a7-form-and-become-mroe-like-a-canon-cx10/


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## TeT (Aug 6, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> siegsAR said:
> 
> 
> > I hope A7s II would be as improved as A7R II is, it would be my first mirrorless camera.
> ...



oof, that would be an interesting development. If they did so, I would love to hear why...


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## siegsAR (Aug 6, 2015)

TeT said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > siegsAR said:
> ...



So Canon after all, must've done lots of things right w/ CX10?  A7s II also w/ 4 mil. ISO!

Seriously though, why? And if that happens I might as well grab the A7s. Should be a lot cheaper by then, no way I'm going to spend that much on the A7S II for my intended purpose.


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## xps (Aug 6, 2015)

The successor of the 7R will become the Camera of the year, of course. Colleagues who work for technical testing laboratories received their first models. And they did not deny that the 7R2 is superior to the Canon high MP model.
Their hinti s to use the Batis lenses on the 7R2... you receive an incredible (and payable) IQ.

On the other hand, the 7T2 body is expensive (3500-3600€ in Germany) and all other accessory equipment too (powerful flash about 650€,...). And Sony has no prime >400mm that has an good optical quality. (Two members of our local fotoclub owned the 500mm Sony lens and they were not satisfied).

I personally will wait for the 5DIV and then decide, if my landscape equipment will become an 7R2 with Batis lenses and an 5DIV with 500 or 600mm Canon lenses.
Maybe Canon will decide to meet the Sony 7R2 and put the almost best (the best for the 1DX2) parts they have in the coming 5DIV.


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## Hector1970 (Aug 6, 2015)

Interesting to see a more thorough review of the camera. I like the size of it. While I like my 5D III and 7D II there are times where they are their lens are just too heavy and something smaller but high quality would be preferable.
I wish personally Canon would produce a smaller lighter camera with a good sensor.
I know alot of people like the chunkiness of the current bodies but I think in years to come they will be seen as being like old laptops or CRT TV's.
There is a strange pink tone in alot of the photos. There is also a photo half way down of an elderly man with a very strange hair-do. I don't know if it was a joke or whether he's always like that. The photos used to demonstrate the camera didn't really impress me to rush out to buy it.
I'm looking forward to seeing more creative and detailed photos. The high ISO performance seems to be good.
I'd like to have heard more of any weaknesses it had to see if I could live with them.
Is there any chance Canon will produce a smaller format high MP full frame camera?


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## ScottyP (Aug 6, 2015)

I don't get the appeal. 

Pros:
It is kind of smaller, it you like that. 

Cons:
It is too small to have the proven right ergonomics like 1dx or 5d3, etc. . 
It is not small enough with lenses attached to really help portability in a truly meaningful way. 
AF still inferior. 
Lens selection still inferior. Adapters do not helpthe AF problem. 


The small camera thing won't last. Remember how cell phones got tinier and tinier and everyone wanted one smaller than their friends'? But they got so small it was hard to use buttons or even to talk into. Now the iPhones are bigger and getting bigger still in a new race to have the biggest screen. Cameras too are handheld electronic devices that need to fit comfortably to hands and face and need to have easily manipulated controls.


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## Hector1970 (Aug 6, 2015)

It's interesting the different views on ergonomics.
I guess if you are bigger and stronger the weight is not an issue and the size is required or else the buttons are too fiddly.
As I get older I must be getting weaker as I am finding the weight an overkill.
It can't be ergonomically good for anyones neck to have that weight around it.
I moved to Sunsniper and Blackrapid to cope with that weight.
I think Canon need to offer that option of a smaller lighter format.
Sony are uncontested in that area at the moment.
For general purpose use like family occasions or street photography a 1DX or a 5DIII I think are overkill and inconvenient to carry around. Sony have focussed on this market and it seems to be doing well with that strategy.
Canon have all the technology to compete with them in that area but are choosing not too (except for the M series but they don't seem to be achieving alot there).


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## RGF (Aug 6, 2015)

In the review

_If you’ve ever tried using your Canon lenses with the previous generation bodies and the Metabones IV, you’ll see right away how much faster things are now. Do note that in AF-C with either the Metabones or the LAEA3 there is no lock-on tracking option, only wide, center, and flexible spot. To get the full advantage of the improved AF, you have to use native E mount lenses._

Note sure what this means. What is AF-C? what does lock-on tracking option, ... mean in real life?

Thanks


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## 3kramd5 (Aug 6, 2015)

dilbert said:


> - Sensor based stabilization (adds IS to all your lenses!)



Are we sure about that? Or does IBIS require communication between the lens and the body? I recall you don't get 5-axis IBIS if you aren't using recent native lenses because they don't communicate the info required for translation, just rotation. Do the roll/pitch/yaw components of IBIS work with dumb lenses?



dilbert said:


> To compare with the 5DsR...
> - $3899 vs $3199 (5DsR price is 22% higher)



Given that you mentioned "Works with all your Canon lenses" as a pro for the A7R2, you need to add an adapter, which runs you anywhere from 30-400 bucks depending on capabilities. My metabones IV cost me ~$399, which shrinks the gap a bit.


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## RLPhoto (Aug 6, 2015)

This is why I wait for Gen2 products. The A7RII is a beast.


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## 3kramd5 (Aug 6, 2015)

dilbert said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...







http://www.thephoblographer.com/2014/12/17/comparison-olympus-sonys-5-axis-stabilization-work/ said:


> But in that case, the camera can still only have the focal length input, and not the focal distance–which has to do with how far away from the sensor the lens is. From the focal length information, it can figure out the right amount of pitch and yaw to provide. However, roll compensation doesn’t require any information from the lens because it is always available. Roll compensation is all based on how the user moves the camera around as you can see in the graph above.
> 
> The behavior of the system is largely dependent on the lens. The lens bears a responsibility if it’s going to enjoy five axis stabilization. It needs to provide focal length and focal distance to the system. But we put in a provision for you to manually put in the focal length. But you cannot put in focus distance. We thought that would be pretty cumbersome.”



So, I presume you'll roll compensation with any lens, roll/pitch/yaw for lenses if FL is supplied, and roll/pitch/yaw/x/y only for lenses which transmit focal distance data.



dilbert said:


> Cons:
> ...



Another is the loss of precision (to 12-bit linear) when either bulb mode or the fully electronic shutter are enabled. If you want very long exposures with zero camera shake, you lose DR and gain noise. I rarely shoot longer than 30 seconds, and would probably stack multiple exposures rather than go to bulb mode as a workaround, but there is no way to work around the electronic shutter limitation.


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## PhotographyFirst (Aug 6, 2015)

Some users of the new camera are already noticing that the AF is fast but not very accurate. DPR had pitched a huge trouser tent over how the eye tracking AF was going to change the world. Seems from early reports that it doesn't really work very well when considering actual accuracy in focusing on eyes. 

I have a feeling it will be a great camera, but it got super-duper overly hyped like all mirrorless cameras so far.


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## crazyrunner33 (Aug 6, 2015)

So far it's the best hybrid camera. I'll probably use the 5D Mark III as my main still camera, but the A7RII would be my go to video camera for freelance work.


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## Sony (Aug 6, 2015)

To dilbert: I've read many of what you posted and my feeling is that either you get paid from Sony or you have a lot of Sony's stocks.


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## expatinasia (Aug 7, 2015)

Sony said:


> To dilbert: I've read many of what you posted and my feeling is that either you get paid from Sony or you have a lot of Sony's stocks.



Says the person whose username is "Sony".

Do you work for Sony?

If not, I think your username is very misleading.


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## roguewave (Aug 7, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Sony said:
> 
> 
> > To dilbert: I've read many of what you posted and my feeling is that either you get paid from Sony or you have a lot of Sony's stocks.
> ...



How about Fuji, Olympus, Leica, Pentax... ?


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## arthurbikemad (Aug 7, 2015)

I loose interest when the, not with this and can't with that starts... :'( Did I read that right, no AI servo with EF glass.. that's me out then.


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## arthurbikemad (Aug 7, 2015)

I'd not mind a loaner


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## KrisK (Aug 7, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Pros:
> - 4K Video Camera
> - 42MP Full Frame images
> - Works with all your Canon lenses through Metabones adapter
> ...




Cons:
-Severe rolling shutter in 4K Crop (the highest quality mode)
-Reports of overheating when recording 4K internally

Internal 4K was a headline feature for this camera.
I'm surprised they released the thing before sorting out the heat dissipation.


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## fragilesi (Aug 8, 2015)

dilbert said:


> - Sony don't hold back on features to prevent them eating their own lunch



Sounds like you can use this thing to cook you own lunch while you're taking 4k video at the same time. Maybe Canon hold back features for other reasons than the strange conspiracy theories that so many seem to subscribe to so readily.


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## KrisK (Aug 8, 2015)

dilbert said:


> KrisK said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Rolling shutter is common to motion picture cameras, as well.

The problem isn't that it exists, but how severe it is.


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## fragilesi (Aug 8, 2015)

dilbert said:


> fragilesi said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



Well Sony clearly have a better approach, release a camera that doubles as a microwave. What could possibly go wrong with releasing features without being sure that they will work well?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 8, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > Once they arrive in stock here in Spokane, I'll probably go in and try one. I have big hands and have difficulty with small controls, so the only way is for me to try one.
> ...



Dylan


I could not try a A7II since they were out of stock, but did try a A7s, they have a ton of those that won't sell. However, that was just a few days after the A7RII was announced, and there were no ergonomic comparisons. The A7s would actually work for me as far as being physically usable.

I'm not after 42 mp, but would like to eliminate the flapping mirror and improve AF accuracy. I think that the A7R II comes a long way towards what I'd like, but I really would prefer higher ISO and 20-26 mp. As long as I can reduce the output to a lower MP and get good high ISO, that is a work-around. 12 MP is not enough to let me crop as much as I'd like. 

The reason to buy a high mp camera for me, would to be able to crop severely, but the per pixel noise gets pretty high.


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## RGF (Aug 8, 2015)

dilbert said:


> KrisK said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



I know very limit about video.

What is rolling shutter and what is global shutter.

Thanks


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## raptor3x (Aug 8, 2015)

dilbert said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



Assuming it works the same as on the A7II, the IBIS will still function with non-native lenses but the effectiveness is significantly reduced because the camera has no information about focus distance.


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## Dylan777 (Aug 9, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > Mt Spokane Photography said:
> ...



42MP is not small. Since the day I upgrade my PC, handling larger MP raw files became much more friendly.

If you ok with a7s body size, I think you going to like the a7rII/a7II body. The new bigger grip on a7ii helps balance out with native 70-200. The needs for longer native lenses, 135mm f2 and 200mm f2.8, is high for Sony A7 shooters. Bigger grip will help up coming FE lenses. Which bring me back to square one, if the mirrorless body is big as DSLR(6D) then I don't see the point buying mirrorless 

I brought a7s + FE28mm + FE55mm + rented FE16-35mm and of course my fav. 1Dx + 100-400 to Hawaii recently. Believe it or not, the 1Dx combo never left the bag. All photos were shots with just Sony.

We about to take a small trip to LEGOLAND. I'm going take new a7rii + FE28mm + FE55mm ONLY.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 9, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Sony said:
> 
> 
> > To dilbert: I've read many of what you posted and my feeling is that either you get paid from Sony or you have a lot of Sony's stocks.
> ...



I've also been accused of being paid off :

I should be so lucky.

Go ahead, camera companies, send me samples of your latest and greatest cameras and lenses, I'll be happy to test and review them. Wine and dine me, fly me to the factory in Japan or Sweden or, in the case of Nikon, Thailand.


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## sdsr (Aug 9, 2015)

raptor3x said:


> Assuming it works the same as on the A7II, the IBIS will still function with non-native lenses but the effectiveness is significantly reduced because the camera has no information about focus distance.



Maybe this is a dumb question, but why does focus distance, as oppose to the focal length of the lens (which you tell the camera manually), matter in IBIS?


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## sdsr (Aug 9, 2015)

dilbert said:


> - Works with all your Canon lenses through Metabones adapter



The a7rII may be much faster than its predecessors, but is there any reason to suppose that it allows AF with more lenses than the a7/a7II/a7r/a7s? With those, only a minority of Canon lenses get AF. So the extent to which it "works with all" of them may be rather limited, to the extent that AF matters. If it doesn't, this particular advantage suddenly becomes huge - via adapters you can attach just about any lens, regardless of who made it.

A couple more advantages - EVF and, because it's mirrorless, not having to deal with AFMA.

(Of course, these advantages aren't unique to Sony mirrorless.)


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## duffer5 (Aug 9, 2015)

Hector1970 said:


> Interesting to see a more thorough review of the camera. I like the size of it. While I like my 5D III and 7D II there are times where they are their lens are just too heavy and something smaller but high quality would be preferable.
> I wish personally Canon would produce a smaller lighter camera with a good sensor.
> I know alot of people like the chunkiness of the current bodies but I think in years to come they will be seen as being like old laptops or CRT TV's.
> There is a strange pink tone in alot of the photos. There is also a photo half way down of an elderly man with a very strange hair-do. I don't know if it was a joke or whether he's always like that. The photos used to demonstrate the camera didn't really impress me to rush out to buy it.
> ...



+1 I have the same lineup in my gear, and I reflect your sentiments regarding the size of those camera bodies. Size does matter, especially when travelling or hiking.


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## 3kramd5 (Aug 9, 2015)

sdsr said:


> raptor3x said:
> 
> 
> > Assuming it works the same as on the A7II, the IBIS will still function with non-native lenses but the effectiveness is significantly reduced because the camera has no information about focus distance.
> ...



Focal length is required for pitch and yaw rotation stabilization, and focal distance is required for x and y translation stabilization. 

See:



3kramd5 said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > 3kramd5 said:
> ...


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## bwana (Aug 10, 2015)

RGF said:


> I know very limit about video.
> 
> What is rolling shutter and what is global shutter.
> 
> Thanks



Think of it this way:

- A global shutter reads the sensor information all at once. Each frame of video is essentially a still picture.

- A rolling shutter reads the sensor information line by line. If the camera is panning or something is moving in the frame, it will get skewed.

Global shutters are preferred; however, it takes a very fast processor to capture full frames instantaneously and the larger the sensor the harder the problem.

Rolling shutters are the most common video approach and the best fix for the skewing is, of course, to have the absolutely fastest sensor readout possible! Sony claims the A7R II sensor readout is about 3-3.5x faster than the A7R; still a rolling shutter but should have less skewing...

bwa


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## fragilesi (Aug 10, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Does that mean my camera can cook breakfast/lunch/dinner for me when I'm out on a shoot?



Only with 4k video apparently. Sony obviously crippled this camera by not enabling this feature for other shooting modes ;D


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Aug 11, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> If you chasing after high MP, the 5DsR is really good, plus huge L lenses to chose.



For me because the 5Ds (personally I wouldn't go for the R version if I were to get one of these) has the high MP but not the high DR and since they crippled the RAW crop mode it can't really be used to replace, say a 5D3, as even a poor man's upper mid-level action camera and it lacks the DR of the Sony and it far and away lacks of the video abilities of the Sony. So basically it would be many thousands of dollars and the only checkmark I'd be able to tick is high MP for FF. But I'd still need to keep my 5D3 AND still add something else for video on top of all of that! So it would be insane amounts of money to spend in total and lugging and swapping around 3 bodies often.

Keeping a 5D3 and adding a Sony would seem to make a lot more sense for me.

Of course had Canon actually updated their sensor fab and been able to put a Sony chip in the 5Ds and given it the DR and been able to get top video out of a high MP sensor (and not crippled the video either and not crippled the RAW crop mode and at least gave it some buffer performance and another fps or two in crop mode) then sure I'd be wayyyy better sticking with Canon. That would save a lot of money and no need to drag second body around at times and everything would just work right in all scenarios (the Sony certainly has lots of gotchas in this and that scenario so I'd still really need something like a 5D3 in addition).


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Aug 11, 2015)

ScottyP said:


> I don't get the appeal.
> 
> Pros:
> It is kind of smaller, it you like that.
> ...



The appeal is that if you say add it to a 5D3 you get high MP count WITH high DR at low ISO and also get top quality video and it takes Canon lenses.

If you say add a 5Ds to a 5D3 (and since they crippled the RAW crop mode on the 5Ds many wouldn't be OK with the 5Ds alone and would still need to keep the 5D3 anyway; even things like RAW HD video from ML, who knows if the 5Ds ever gets that) you basically get a high MP count and that is it. You are still lacking the high DR at low ISO if that matters to you and you are still lacking high quality 4k video and basic video usability features. So that is a lot of money to spend to just get one thing ticked off on your potential wants list.

The Sony here ticks off a lot more boxes and sure it has this and that issue that would be tricky for some types of shooting so you need to waste money and still hang onto a 5D3 or something anyway but the way Canon mde the 5Ds many would still need to hang onto a 5D3 anyway! so it's not ideal in the SOny case, but the Canon 5Ds case doesn't solve that problem anyway so....

Now if Canon had something like the A7R II sensor in the 5Ds and didn;t hold back on the video specs and had given it a Nikon-like RAW crop mode where you get an extra fps or two and get a very nice buffer then sure Canon 5Ds all the way and don't even think to look at Sony or Nikon or whatever, but they didn't so you take your compromises and the SOny addition compromise seems to add a LOT more for your buck than adding a 5Ds as it was made does.

Of course for some shooters many things might not matter, they might be very restricted shooters, not do video or not do it where the image quality of it matters that much to the finest details and maybe they never shoot in challenging conditions of light at low ISO and just stick with whatever basic stuff you could manage to get away with in the old slide film days, but it hardly seems a stretch to imagine there might be at least some number of people for who that is not true and to imagine how this Sony could make sense.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Aug 11, 2015)

fragilesi said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > fragilesi said:
> ...



At least they have a modern sensor than can provide 4k in a less than 1DX body that could at least manage it non-stop for like 25 minutes. Plenty of people shoot scenics video, where 4k and top image quality really might matter, and often than might be shot in just a minute here, 5 minutes there, 30 seconds there, 3 minutes there, 15 minutes there, etc. and it seems like the A7R II should be fine for that.

With the 500nm sensors it sounds like you'd be stuck at like 1 minute length of shooting or something.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Aug 11, 2015)

3kramd5 said:


> Focal length is required for pitch and yaw rotation stabilization, and focal distance is required for x and y translation stabilization.



I could be wrong, but doesn't the x/y stuff matter a lot more for macro range shooting? (although I guess if you shot near MFD on a long lens that had a short MFD might benefit from xy a lot too)

I could be embarrassingly wrong here but I thought only a very few Canon IS lenses even do that (x/y), one being the 100L IS macro.


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## 3kramd5 (Aug 11, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > Focal length is required for pitch and yaw rotation stabilization, and focal distance is required for x and y translation stabilization.
> ...



I tend to agree. Macro would benefit from X/Y. Maybe tilted TS-E as well. I'd rather have Z than X/Y 

In any case, I was just questioning Dilbert's assertion that it "adds IS to all your lenses", and in particular what it adds.

Will they get all of IBIS, some of IBIS, or none of IBIS?

Currently, with the metabones adapter and IS lenses, the camera comes back and says "enable it on the lens," so I don't think it adds anything to lenses which already have some form of IS.
Additionally, I haven't gotten it to work _as far as I can tell_ (I tried the roll trick suggested above and didn't see anything that looked like IS) with any of my non-IS lenses.

So I think I'm getting none of IBIS with any adapted lens I've tried (16-35 f/4LIS, 35 f/1.4L, 24-70 f/2.8L, 70-200 f/2.8LIS II, 100 2.8 macro), although in theory the non-IS lenses should get some of IBIS.


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## fragilesi (Aug 12, 2015)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> fragilesi said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



Sorry, didn't mean to upset you guys in the Sony marketing department .


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## Stu_bert (Aug 12, 2015)

I got this link from SonyAlphaRumors site about a Canon shooter wanting to move to the A7rII

http://joshanon.com/blog/2015/08/09/from_canon_to_sony_almost

interesting viewpoint...


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## Valvebounce (Aug 13, 2015)

Hi Stu. 
Thanks for sharing, a very informative article, seemingly without prejudice or bias, just the facts as he found them. 

Cheers, Graham. 



Stu_bert said:


> I got this link from SonyAlphaRumors site about a Canon shooter wanting to move to the A7rII
> 
> http://joshanon.com/blog/2015/08/09/from_canon_to_sony_almost
> 
> interesting viewpoint...


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## fragilesi (Aug 13, 2015)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi Stu.
> Thanks for sharing, a very informative article, seemingly without prejudice or bias, just the facts as he found them.
> 
> Cheers, Graham.
> ...



Definitely. And one user doesn't make or break a camera but we need more people like this to be adding informed commentary to the debate. From what he says it doesn't sound like something I could or would use but it has its strong points.


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## Stu_bert (Aug 13, 2015)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi Stu.
> Thanks for sharing, a very informative article, seemingly without prejudice or bias, just the facts as he found them.
> 
> Cheers, Graham.



Welcome 

I was surprised to find it on SonyAlpharumors, but impressed that they did (cynical me would just say there's no such thing as "bad traffic" generated for a rumors site). I also listened to the B&H cast (link from same site) and unfortunately it was completely biased. 

Josh wanted to migrate to Sony, so interesting that he found the AF with Canon lenses not quite what others are claiming. But there's also a video review on the same site from a guy using the 7r II with a 600mm f/4 and 70-200 f/2.8 shooting a tennis player. He seems to get good shots, but what you don't know is whether he was doing single shot or tracking. He did say the lag with the EVF means you have to predict when to shoot a little bit more than a dSLR, which I found interesting.

I think the challenge for many people is cutting through the hype and BS to get to a position where they might want to hire the body for a day to really assess it's Pro's & Con's. Ultimately it is rare once someone has bought something to admit it has not lived up to expectations. Renting it I think is better, but I'm guessing it will be a few months till that option is prevalent worldwide...


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## sdsr (Aug 13, 2015)

Stu_bert said:


> I was surprised to find it on SonyAlpharumors, but impressed that they did (cynical me would just say there's no such thing as "bad traffic" generated for a rumors site). [....]
> 
> Josh wanted to migrate to Sony, so interesting that he found the AF with Canon lenses not quite what others are claiming. [....]



sonyalpharumors has been quite good about posting negative user reviews and doesn't seem to moderate forum comments, lots of which are negative (often disgustingly so) regardless of topic. If there are ever discussions there that are as good as those here, I'm looking in the wrong place....

As for AF with Canon lenses, I've found the sweeping (positive) claims baffling. Metabones have never claimed that their adapters provide AF for all Canon AF lenses (the list of supported lenses is rather short, in fact - it omits some that they do, in fact support), so it would be odd (or so it seems to me) if all of a sudden they supported all Canon AF lenses when attached to an a7rII. I'll be receiving mine later today, apparently (B&H replenished its stock far faster than I expected; I ordered mine a week ago) and will be interested to see (a) to what extent my Metabones adapter on the a7rII provides faster AF for Canon lenses it supported on other a7 bodies I own/have owned and (b) whether it provides AF on the a7rII for Canon lenses that were denied it on other a7 bodies. I'm fairly optimistic about (a) but not about (b), though a pleasant surprise would be nice. (There are other adapters that provide AF for Canon lenses, but I don't think I've seen any reports about how well they perform. Has anyone reading this used any of them?)

Fortunately this isn't a big issue for me as I almost always prefer MF (albeit with lenses designed for MF rather than AF).


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## sdsr (Aug 13, 2015)

I've not had more than an hour or so to play with my a7rII that arrived today, my experiments have been indoors in not very bright lighting, and I've only been able to try a few of my Canon lenses. Plus, I'm using Metabones III, not IV. Anyway, so far I'm not overwhelmed. Two zooms worked impressively: via phase-detection, the 24-105L focused almost as fast as it does on a Canon body, perhaps as fast, while the EF-S 10-18mm aps-c focused at least as fast as it does on a Canon body (it was so fast I thought at first that it hadn't done anything). So that was nice. The 100L and 135L wouldn't focus via phase detection, but would via contrast detection, but at least in indoors light did so in much the same tedious slow manner as AF is on the older a7 bodies - it has no advantage over MF. On the other hand, neither worked with AF at all on older a7 bodies. AF on the 85mm 1.8 works the same as it did on older a7 bodies - slow, clunky and more-or-less pointless; no AF at all with phase-detection. The 50mm 1.4 wasn't recognized at all, so I couldn't select phase or contrast AF; so no AF, the same as on older a7 bodies.

Of course, it could be that the results would be better if I had a Metabones IV adapter and I may be missing something with the settings I've chosen, a situation I may well fix later. For now, though....


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## 3kramd5 (Aug 13, 2015)

sdsr said:


> I've not had more than an hour or so to play with my a7rII that arrived today, my experiments have been indoors in not very bright lighting, and I've only been able to try a few of my Canon lenses. Plus, I'm using Metabones III, not IV. Anyway, so far I'm not overwhelmed. Two zooms worked impressively: via phase-detection, the 24-105L focused almost as fast as it does on a Canon body, perhaps as fast, while the EF-S 10-18mm aps-c focused at least as fast as it does on a Canon body (it was so fast I thought at first that it hadn't done anything). So that was nice. The 100L and 135L wouldn't focus via phase detection, but would via contrast detection, but at least in indoors light did so in much the same tedious slow manner as AF is on the older a7 bodies - it has no advantage over MF. On the other hand, neither worked with AF at all on older a7 bodies. AF on the 85mm 1.8 works the same as it did on older a7 bodies - slow, clunky and more-or-less pointless; no AF at all with phase-detection. The 50mm 1.4 wasn't recognized at all, so I couldn't select phase or contrast AF; so no AF, the same as on older a7 bodies.
> 
> Of course, it could be that the results would be better if I had a Metabones IV adapter and I may be missing something with the settings I've chosen, a situation I may well fix later. For now, though....



Have you tried flexible spot (the rough equivalent to single AF points) off center? My lenses which work at all work fairly well (though they struggle more in low-contrast situations than my SLRs) at the center, but much off center they tend to hunt.


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## sdsr (Aug 13, 2015)

3kramd5 said:


> sdsr said:
> 
> 
> > [....]
> ...



All I've tried so far is flexible spot (the only AF mode I've used on a7 bodies), but only at/near the center. I'll try off-center later, but probably won't be able to do so in daylight until tomorrow (work - photography is "just" a hobby - keeps getting in the way, unfortunately). I'll report back later....


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## sdsr (Aug 14, 2015)

3kramd5 said:


> Currently, with the metabones adapter and IS lenses, the camera comes back and says "enable it on the lens," so I don't think it adds anything to lenses which already have some form of IS.
> Additionally, I haven't gotten it to work _as far as I can tell_ (I tried the roll trick suggested above and didn't see anything that looked like IS) with any of my non-IS lenses.
> 
> So I think I'm getting none of IBIS with any adapted lens I've tried (16-35 f/4LIS, 35 f/1.4L, 24-70 f/2.8L, 70-200 f/2.8LIS II, 100 2.8 macro), although in theory the non-IS lenses should get some of IBIS.



Do you mean that you aren't seeing the benefits of IBIS in photos when using your non-IS Canon lenses on the a7rII? I've not tried that yet with IS-free Canon lenses, but along with my a7r II I received in the mail today from Japan a mf-only lens, a "Bokina" (Tokina 90mm 2.5 macro). I tried it on the a7rII this evening in rather dim interior light hand-held, in A mode, wide open, prompting the camera to choose the usual Sony default of 1/60. Had I used my a7r instead at 1/60 I may have achieved very sharp images in a few instances, but most of them probably would have shown at least some signs of camera shake. But with the a7II every shot I took showed not a hint of camera shake, not even on fine cat fur (what else?), which leads me to infer that the IBIS is working, at least to some extent (later I guess I'll try slower shutter speeds and see what happens). But I would never have known while taking the photos that the IBIS was doing anything - if it made any sound it was drowned out by what little ambient noise there is in our rather quiet apt.) and I didn't feel anything either (by contrast, my Olympus OM-D makes a quiet sound and my recollection of using my Pentax k5 a few years ago before I switched to Canon a few years ago is that I would feel the IBIS kick in and perhaps hear it too). 

Presumably a reliable reviewer will reveal all before too long....


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## 3kramd5 (Aug 14, 2015)

I'm saying if it's active I don't recognize it. I'll try tonight with my 24-70 at like 1/5 or 1/3 second.

Edit: never mind, it works. Pretty well too. Got a decently still image at 2 seconds akwardly hand-held.


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## sanj (Aug 14, 2015)

3kramd5 said:


> I'm saying if it's active I don't recognize it. I'll try tonight with my 24-70 at like 1/5 or 1/3 second.
> 
> Edit: never mind, it works. Pretty well too. Got a decently still image at 2 seconds akwardly hand-held.



Wow. Do post the picture! 2 seconds is very very 'handy'!


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## Stu_bert (Aug 14, 2015)

sdsr said:


> <snip>
> 
> Of course, it could be that the results would be better if I had a Metabones IV adapter and I may be missing something with the settings I've chosen, a situation I may well fix later. For now, though....



Tony Northrup has done testing - they've previously used a $100 adapter and moved across to the Metabones IV - search for "Sony A7rII review" but grab part 2 as it covers 90% of what was in part 1 as they retest.

My current research bar 1 (mentioned above), seems to indicate that lenses with a focal length <=200mm and newer than 2006 (though the newer the better), seem to fair ok with single shot.

Continuous tracking is a different matter as per the review link, and Northrup seems to agree. But I have seen others take shots of dogs jumping etc (you just don't know how many frames it took), and the video review has a 600mm shooting a tennis player (again, I don't think he mentions success rate)...

It's a smart transition offering by Sony and clearly their relationship with Nikon prevented them from doing the same. I think for static stuff, landscapes, portraiture, architecture, some urban, stills etc it would be fine, and depending on your lenses, then you might fill the gap picking up a couple of Zeiss lenses when you need tracking.

At the moment, the things that still worry me are: Heat, Long Exposure (but some think this is a bug with dark frame creation), lossy compressed raw (dpreview show an easy to reproduce example), and a few weird limitations (e.g. silent shooting drops bit encoding from 14 to 12). That and I want to see how the C300 II tech in the 1DX mk II comes out like.

What still interests me in the Sony is the lack of noise in the shadows. I shoot well past the golden hour, into the blue hour and sometimes later. I get the feeling however that the 1DX II will not fix that as it is present at low ISO...


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## 3kramd5 (Aug 14, 2015)

sanj said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm saying if it's active I don't recognize it. I'll try tonight with my 24-70 at like 1/5 or 1/3 second.
> ...



Don't get me wrong, it's not something I'd try to put in a museum, more a test to make sure it's active with non-IS lenses.

It was steadier when I did it at 24mm, for obvious reasons. I tried with a 50/1.4 thinking I'd hold it more steadily due to balance issues (the 24-70/2.8 is akward), but twice the focal length caused quite a bit more blur.

ISOs are different because camera was on auto-ISO.


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## sdsr (Aug 14, 2015)

3kramd5 said:


> Have you tried flexible spot (the rough equivalent to single AF points) off center? My lenses which work at all work fairly well (though they struggle more in low-contrast situations than my SLRs) at the center, but much off center they tend to hunt.



I just took a few shots outdoors on a sunny afternoon, albeit in a square with lots of tree-shade, with my 24-105 using flexible spot in the smallest size in the farthest corners of the phase-detection focus area. No hunting at all. Accuracy is another matter, though (and this seems true no matter where the focus point was) - where there was nothing between me and the subject, no problem, but if there was something near the subject (not over it - I'm not talking about shooting a bird on a branch through leaves) it would sometimes focus on that other thing instead (I had the problem all the time with a mirrorless Fuji I briefly owned). But it focused accurately on the most difficult subject I aimed at - fingers on an extended arm on a black statue which had, behind the hand, a black lamp post, all in dappled shade. Go figure.... (I've never found AF even on Canon to be 100% reliable, but Canon body + Canon lenses is probably better than this overall.) Maybe larger focus points would be more reliable, at least where the subject isn't tiny?

By contrast, indoors, in low light, the outer focus points hunted so long I gave up; useless. 

If I had bought this camera so I could use Canon AF lenses with the same performance as they provide on a Canon body, I would send it back. (I would rather use MF lenses any day.) As that was only a small part of my decision to buy it, I'll keep playing with it. If its main advantage is providing IBIS for lenses that don't have it, I may consider the a7II instead. The additional resolution is fun, I suppose, but it's not all that different from the a7r in that regard, and I don't think the image quality is significantly different either (if at all - not that the a7r needs improving in *that* regard).


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## 3kramd5 (Aug 15, 2015)

sdsr said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > Have you tried flexible spot (the rough equivalent to single AF points) off center? My lenses which work at all work fairly well (though they struggle more in low-contrast situations than my SLRs) at the center, but much off center they tend to hunt.
> ...



I bought the 2 because I hoped it could satisfy all my gripes with the A7R. On paper it does, in my hand it still feels like a toy. I feel like I'm going to crush the memory card door. I perhaps naively hoped it would AF as well with canon glass as the hype suggested. Is it better than the A7R? Yes. But it's certainly no champ.

I have some native lenses coming soon. Wanted the batis 25 but can't find it anywhere. If my user experience with the native lenses (55 and 90macro) don't impress me significantly, they're all going back and I'll restore my 5DSR order.


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## sanj (Aug 15, 2015)

Thank you!


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## 9VIII (Aug 16, 2015)

Funny, the stabilized 2 second exposure is more readable than the stabilized 1 second exposure.
I think the 1 second shot was an outlier.


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## 3kramd5 (Aug 16, 2015)

9VIII said:


> Funny, the stabilized 2 second exposure is more readable than the stabilized 1 second exposure.
> I think the 1 second shot was an outlier.



Yah, I noticed that, even double checked. I agree it's probably a poor example.


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## sdsr (Aug 17, 2015)

I've not done any extreme IBIS testing with my a7r. For now, I'm pleased to be able to take hand-held shots with my Rokinon 135mm at 1/60 (the Sony default low speed) that look sharp enough to me, at least. Here's a crop of a fine-textured subject via that lens wide open, 1/60, ISO 500 (most of it's not in focus, of course, thanks to the very shallow depth of focus; the original photo isn't the colors it appears to have on the upload here, either, but that's another matter....):


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## Stu_bert (Aug 17, 2015)

To the A7rII users if you haven't seen this post on FM about ways to avoid 12 bit mode

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/1379163

may be of use...


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