# Let’s talk about those Canon EOS RS/R5 specifications



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 28, 2020)

> *Update* We’ve added new specifications for the Canon EOS R5, check them out here.
> The Canon EOS RS/R5 specifications that we posted yesterday certainly caused a stir on this site with lots of discussions here as well as on social media.
> I haven’t read the forums in regard to what we posted, nor have I checked in on Facebook, I didn’t want to overthink things, so I’ve just stuck with talking to some sources and friends about this rumored camera.
> 
> ...



Continue reading...


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## Chaitanya (Jan 28, 2020)

8K timelapse mode makes sense as processing 8K videos needs a lot of computational horsepower.


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## AccipiterQ (Jan 28, 2020)

Man bites dog, news at 11


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## richperson (Jan 28, 2020)

If Canon wants to get a lot more people on the R platform, I think an R5 gets you there much faster than an Rs. Even if some of the specs drop down a bit this would still be a camera for the masses.


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## Romain (Jan 28, 2020)

CR2 CR2 CR2 CR2...


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## edoorn (Jan 28, 2020)

I would buy two of these instantly


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## Focus (Jan 28, 2020)

Canon R5 would make since from “5D Mark IV”....From Mark IV (4) to New Mirrorless R5


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## ahsanford (Jan 28, 2020)

_"I’m pretty confident a lot of what we posted yesterday is accurate and would raise this set of specifications to a [CR2]."_



Wow. I'm not saying I'm where you are confidence/belief-wise, CR Guy, but that's quite a statement coming from you.

- A


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## djkraq (Jan 28, 2020)

What kinda unicorn bu.... Well, some of this is possible but I just don’t expect this out of Canon. The 1DX 3 doesn’t even do 4K 120 so why put that in this? Who’s been asking for 4K 120?


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## Gloads (Jan 28, 2020)

Why/How would an R body have (much) higher throughput than a 1 series release a month earlier...


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 28, 2020)

Gloads said:


> Why/How would an R body have (much) higher throughput than a 1 series release a month earlier...



How do you know what the DIGIC X processor is capable of?

These two products would be for two completely different customers.


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## Graphic.Artifacts (Jan 28, 2020)

8k time lapse and some version of 4k60p brings this rumor into a more believable envelope. Not buying any version of 4K120p but I would love to be wrong. I shoot a lot of 120p and if they have a trick up their sleeve that outperforms the current 1080p bring it on. Otherwise it all sounds pretty good to me.

edited.


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## Kit Lens Jockey (Jan 28, 2020)

Gloads said:


> Why/How would an R body have (much) higher throughput than a 1 series release a month earlier...


I agree this seems odd. The only way I could see that this would be a possibility is maybe doing all of the advanced things they are doing with the 1DX3's separate autofocus sensor is somehow more taxing on the processor than just having all of the image capturing and autofocusing happening right on the sensor as a mirrorless camera does? But then this doesn't really make sense, as I thought it's generally accepted that having that constant feed from the sensor to the EVF is generally more taxing on the processor than having an OVF. Maybe this new camera just uses a completely new/more advanced architecture that makes more efficient use of the processor's power compared to the 1DX which perhaps they kept using a somewhat older architecture just for the sake of reliability?

Not saying any of this is actually the case, and not saying I actually believe that the new mirrorless will arrive with specs that essentially trounce the IDX, but if it *did*, this is my wild, baseless speculation as to why.


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## nwardrip (Jan 28, 2020)

Now this is a camera to be excited about and what Canon should have had a couple years ago. I will certainly be in the preorder line for such a camera.

75MP is just too much for most people. 40MP is reasonable, but if we're talking 8K (even timelapse), then shouldn't the sensor be 8192 x 5460 = ~45MP or something close to that?


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## ahsanford (Jan 28, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> How do you know what the DIGIC X processor is capable of?
> 
> These two products would be for two completely different customers.




CR guy, I think what paints everyone's expectations is that any new FF camera -- if real -- is going to fall into a 1-series / 5-series / 6-series sort of slot in the lineup, with its relative prestige and asking price, etc. And the spec list we've seen (regardless of who it is aimed at in the market) is comically above/beyond what Canon's brand-spanking-new 1DX3* can do.

That -- above all else -- doesn't compute for many of us, myself included.

Tell us it's 45 x *10* and it's the next 5D5, it would be plausible.
Tell us it's a gripped 1-series mirrorless with IBIS and *24 *x 20, it would entirely be plausible.
Tell us it's as-the-rumor-specs-it and it will be a new series even more pricey/prestigious than the 1-series (a 0-series?!) and it becomes I guess vaguely more plausible. (Seems like a $10k body to me, though.)
But as spec'd. No. Still not buying this rumor.

- A

*I recognize a 1-series is much more than pure horsepower specs, and we've seen 5-series outdo 1-series on the odd spec or new feature in the past ...but this rumored list is simply ridiculous.


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## amorse (Jan 28, 2020)

8k time lapse I buy - that makes the rumour more palatable. Higher throughput than 1DXIII I can get behind also - the M6ii has to be close already. I do struggle to see them put up 14fps in a full frame body not because they can't - more likely that they don't want want to compete with the 1Dx series, unless this moves way up market. I guess we'll know soon!


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## amorse (Jan 28, 2020)

ahsanford said:


> CR guy, I think what paints everyone's expectations is that any new FF camera -- if real -- is going to fall into a 1-series / 5-series / 6-series sort of slot in the lineup, with its relative prestige and asking price, etc. And the spec list we've seen (regardless of who it is aimed at in the market) is comically above/beyond what Canon's brand-spanking-new 1DX3* can do.
> 
> That -- above all else -- doesn't compute for many of us, myself included.
> 
> ...


Or maybe they're spiritually resurrecting the 1Ds series. I agree, releasing something like this is going to be expensive - and that's ok!


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## juststeve (Jan 28, 2020)

I believe a 5D Mark V camera in mirrorless form is a very high priority item for Canon and one will show up well before the Olympics. As much as I want the high pixel count camera if it does at least 5 FPS, a 36-40 MP camera capable of 10 FPS or a bit better should be a much higher priority for Canon. That is the sweet spot for most professional users and most serious amateur users I think.

The M6 ii at 32.5 MP and 14 FPS shows Canon already has the capability even without using Digic X and can do it without excessive heat build up--admittedly with a small sensor--and pretty good battery life even from a smaller battery than the current R.

I expect Canon wants to have that camera and a set of trinity lenses available for a sidearm for every 1DX iii they loan out at the Olympics. I suspect they will have many takers, especially if they can also have a 70 or 100-400 RF available and maybe even a few surprise 200-500or 600 compact RF lenses as an Olympic special treat. Think Sony is not going to have a lot of interest in its 200-600 on an A9 ii at the Olympics?


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## YuengLinger (Jan 28, 2020)

As the old joke goes, the pessimist gets a room full of gifts and says, "Is this all there is?" The optimist gets a room full of manure and says, "Well, there must be a pony for me here somewhere."

And, wow, CR Guy is really learning how to braid these threads!


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## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (Jan 28, 2020)

juststeve said:


> I believe a 5D Mark V camera in mirrorless form is a very high priority item for Canon and one will show up well before the Olympics. As much as I want the high pixel count camera if it does at least 5 FPS, a 36-40 MP camera capable of 10 FPS or a bit better should be a much higher priority for Canon. That is the sweet spot for most professional users and most serious amateur users I think.



I had scratched my head over the thought of a 5DS or 5DSR replacement with mirrorless coming first. If one did, it would actually still make a good 5D mk iv alternative, because the file size can be set lower.

But for landscape photography with a 5DSR, I don't think IBIS would matter, and a mirrorless replacement will still end up on a tripod and be shot one frame at a time. So I feel like the 5DSR has plenty of shelf life left.

Something above the EOS R and with two cards that's more 5D mk iv-like seems like a better niche to replace first.


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## richperson (Jan 28, 2020)

djkraq said:


> What kinda unicorn bu.... Well, some of this is possible but I just don’t expect this out of Canon. The 1DX 3 doesn’t even do 4K 120 so why put that in this? Who’s been asking for 4K 120?



I would expect the Digic X is repurposed in an R5, so that it has a smaller buffer from the unlimited 1DXiii buffer, but can handle larger images with a smaller buffer, which works for an R5, but would not be good with a 1DXiii.


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## IcyBergs (Jan 28, 2020)

More rumor-porn than I can handle in one week...make it stop


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## ahsanford (Jan 28, 2020)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> I had scratched my head over the thought of a 5DS or 5DSR replacement with mirrorless coming first. If one did, it would actually still make a good 5D mk iv alternative, because the file size can be set lower.
> 
> But for landscape photography with a 5DSR, I don't think IBIS would matter, and a mirrorless replacement will still end up on a tripod and be shot one frame at a time. So I feel like the 5DSR has plenty of shelf life left.
> 
> Something above the EOS R and with two cards that's more 5D mk iv-like seems like a better niche to replace first.




One might argue the 5DS needs more attention than the 5D# line, though.

Forget adding new stuff like IBIS -- the 5DS/5DSR presently lacks:

Newer sensor archtitecture with a greater lattiude at lower ISO --> one might consider that a really big deal for studio or tripod landscape work
A tilty-flippy --> which might come in handy for the landscapers out there.
DPAF + touchscreen for LiveView if not video.
What I can't tell is if a super high res camera (vs. market, vs. rest of the Canon portfolio) is a 5-series regular offering on a 4-ish year timeline... or if it's a 7-series 'we'll get to it when we get to it' sort of product line.

If it's the former, a 5DS2 and/or equivalent in mirrorless should come next.

If it's the latter, a 5D5 and/or mirrorless equivalent should come next.

- A


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## Trey T (Jan 28, 2020)

if they bring back the rear thumb wheel, seen on 5D/7d/1d, the EOS R and RP will have a status of rebel-equivalent


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## amorse (Jan 28, 2020)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> I had scratched my head over the thought of a 5DS or 5DSR replacement with mirrorless coming first. If one did, it would actually still make a good 5D mk iv alternative, because the file size can be set lower.
> 
> But for landscape photography with a 5DSR, I don't think IBIS would matter, and a mirrorless replacement will still end up on a tripod and be shot one frame at a time. So I feel like the 5DSR has plenty of shelf life left.
> 
> Something above the EOS R and with two cards that's more 5D mk iv-like seems like a better niche to replace first.


Honestly, I'm half betting they come at the same time or nearly at the same time. The 5DsR series is 5 years old now without a refresh, which is longer than the typical refresh cycle for the 1D or 5D series, so it is due for an update. With that said, I can't imagine the 5Ds series could hold a candle in sales numbers to the 1D or 5D series, so it makes complete sense for this body to share as many parts as feasible with the 5D series RF camera coming - similar to the EOS R vs Ra: if all you're changing is the sensor, then your manufacturing costs will be more manageable. The replacement for the 5DIV must be close too - it hits the 4 years since announcement mark in August, and Canon has seemed to avoid refreshing on longer time scales than that over the last iterations of the 5D.

No doubt the masses are clamouring for a 5D equivalent mirrorless more than a 5DsR mirrorless, but if they're going to be largely the same camera and the 5DsR is longer in the tooth, I could see them updating both quickly. Also, Canon held off on dropping the price on the 5Ds and 5DsR until relatively recently - I see that as a sign something's coming soon, right or wrong. 

Based on the rumour, I'm on the fence as to what I'd choose - the rumoured 40-45MP body vs 65-85MP body with much lower performance in other areas. I can see a home for either of those niches in my bag.


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## neurorx (Jan 28, 2020)

Do we think the high MP R camera will come out later? These specifications seem more like a 5DM IV next step. If this camera has the focus system of the 1DX3, ISO performance/dynamic range at least at 5D IV level, it will be amazing. Crossing my fingers!


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## ahsanford (Jan 28, 2020)

Trey T said:


> if they bring back the rear thumb wheel, seen on 5D/7d/1d, the EOS R and RP will have a status of rebel-equivalent




That's a bit much. I see a pro control set with the thumb wheel as a way for Canon to argue for 'pro FF' $3k for a mirrorless 5D. 

That doesn't instantly devalue what the R and RP do today. They still are FF cameras that can do some impressive things.

- A


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## mpmark (Jan 28, 2020)

I think we need to look at this in a simple way, Canon needs to fill 3 major camera types with new replacement hardware as all these are due for updates and/or replacements as they are all 4+ years old.

7Dii - crop sensor, fast birding camera
5Div - all round full frame camera
5Ds - high MP camera for landscape/portrait

So it looks like they will be releasing this in the new R platform, which one of these fits the rumors best? So far the 5Div, which for me is great news. The 7Dii also needs to be replaced and of course the 5Ds line as well. I think all these HAVE to come this year, the current line is quite old and Canon is losing customers or patience of users that own these cameras slowly to other manufactures so they need to deliver solutions this year. As mentioned in a R line system.


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## addola (Jan 28, 2020)

8K timelapse video makes sense. We had seen 4K timelaps being introduced few years ago, so having 8K timelapse being introduced is plausible. 

4K/120fp with a 1:1 crop on a 40-45 MP sensor means a heavy factor of x2 to x2.15, and maybe they would only do it in IBP or maybe only produce a baked-in video file that is slowed down to 24 or 30fps


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## reefroamer (Jan 28, 2020)

ahsanford said:


> CR guy, I think what paints everyone's expectations is that any new FF camera -- if real -- is going to fall into a 1-series / 5-series / 6-series sort of slot in the lineup, with its relative prestige and asking price, etc. And the spec list we've seen (regardless of who it is aimed at in the market) is comically above/beyond what Canon's brand-spanking-new 1DX3* can do.
> 
> That -- above all else -- doesn't compute for many of us, myself included.
> 
> ...


Canon isn’t locked into their current product segmentation. It’s always a shifting target.


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## amorse (Jan 28, 2020)

Trey T said:


> if they bring back the rear thumb wheel, seen on 5D/7d/1d, the EOS R and RP will have a status of rebel-equivalent


It would certainly be a lot lower than the newly released bodies, but I think Rebel equivalent is a bit too low. I would bet the launch price of these new rumoured bodies will be well and above the launch price of the R and RP, likely much closer to the launch price of the 5D IV if not higher. 

Also, holding back a feature on a new body in order to preserve the position of older bodies sounds like a bad idea. Even if the new rumoured specs are real, a discounted R would be an awesome cheaper(ish) backup to any of these cameras.


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## Go Wild (Jan 28, 2020)

People still think that the new rumored EOS R can compete or make the 1dxIII lose sales. I disagree. Don´t forget that the 1dx is a segmented camera for some photographers, specially sports photographers or photojournalists. The news agencies and serious sports photographers will buy the 1dxIII with no second thoughts. They need the speed, and not only the frames speed. They need speed of communication. The video specs on the 1dx mkIII are a plus to the camera. They put it to make the best camera possible and to attract some videographers that like/need robust bodies with the best of the bests weather sealing. Most of this clients will never considerate a mirrorless camera like these ones that are coming. Are you thinking that a sports photographer will buy this new camera? No way! Also, I don´t think this new mirrorless to have the same AF sistem of the 1dxIII making this feature an exclusive of the 1D series. It can have great AF but not the same! Canon did the same with the 7D mkII.

The new camera (let´s call EOS Rs) can really make a difference in creative videographers that like/want smaller bodies and dont care so much having the best weather sealing. They can also make some wildlife photographers not to buy the 1dxIII and buy instead this one. But they are a small fragment of the 1dxIII buyers. This camera is more aimed to landscape, studio, weddings, and wildlife if you can live with smaller fps.
If this camera has some serious video specs like 1dxIII and serious still features it can make some people to choose this one.

Sooo, regarding to the camera....this looks promising! I can live quite well with a cropped [email protected]! 8k timelapse would be fantastic. And having 4k 10bit 4:2:2 would be quite perfect! To be honest less than this would make a lot of people (from video side) to lose interest in the camera...Hope Canon maintain the 1dxIII codec and give in this one the HEVC H265 (Woudn´t make any sense if not!)

From stills perspective, i expect a less capable AF camera comparing to 1dxIII but still with same great AF! Expect between 7 and 12 FPS and I expect also CFexpress. It just wouldn´t make any sense not to equip the camera with CFexpress after they public say that this sistem is the future!

Hope camera will have also HEIF! I would love also to see in the camera a back button focus like the 1dxIII it seems very promising feature!
In general, if the camera is something around this, Canon will have my money. Ohhh....I expect also some improvement in the EVF, that would be good.
Ohh boy....2020 is going to be painfull to my pockets!


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## Del Paso (Jan 28, 2020)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> I had scratched my head over the thought of a 5DS or 5DSR replacement with mirrorless coming first. If one did, it would actually still make a good 5D mk iv alternative, because the file size can be set lower.
> 
> But for landscape photography with a 5DSR, I don't think IBIS would matter, and a mirrorless replacement will still end up on a tripod and be shot one frame at a time. So I feel like the 5DSR has plenty of shelf life left.
> 
> Something above the EOS R and with two cards that's more 5D mk iv-like seems like a better niche to replace first.


Sorry to contradict you, but for me, IBIS would make a lot of sense.
I never carry a tripod up a mountain, so, especially in a twilight situation, or for handheld small -aperture macro shots, I'd really appreciate having in-body stabilization. Also, I'm using lots of vintage lenses. My first "real" camera was a Leica M, and a Leica M on a tripod is kind of a self-contradiction...that's how a habit develops. Even my TSE 24mm gets used hand-held.
So you see, 2 contradicting points of view, and both are valid, yours and (I hope), mine.


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## reefroamer (Jan 28, 2020)

mpmark said:


> I think we need to look at this in a simple way, Canon needs to fill 3 major camera types with new replacement hardware as all these are due for updates and/or replacements as they are all 4+ years old.
> 
> 7Dii - crop sensor, fast birding camera
> 5Div - all round full frame camera
> ...


You assume that Canon will replace and enhance its current products. I would say not necessarily. Product segmentation shifts with the market and changes constantly. Competition and technology change. Considers today’s demand for video in digital cameras. Anyway, it’s still very possible that they Continue in a straight line from today’s lineup.


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## amorse (Jan 28, 2020)

Go Wild said:


> People still think that the new rumored EOS R can compete or make the 1dxIII lose sales. I disagree. Don´t forget that the 1dx is a segmented camera for some photographers, specially sports photographers or photojournalists. The news agencies and serious sports photographers will buy the 1dxIII with no second thoughts. They need the speed, and not only the frames speed. They need speed of communication. The video specs on the 1dx mkIII are a plus to the camera. They put it to make the best camera possible and to attract some videographers that like/need robust bodies with the best of the bests weather sealing. Most of this clients will never considerate a mirrorless camera like these ones that are coming. Are you thinking that a sports photographer will buy this new camera? No way! Also, I don´t think this new mirrorless to have the same AF sistem of the 1dxIII making this feature an exclusive of the 1D series. It can have great AF but not the same! Canon did the same with the 7D mkII.


I don't think this camera would eliminate sales of the 1DXIII, nor do I think a whole lot of sports photographers would switch over, but I do think some users might. There will be no wholesale migration from the 1DX series. 

BUT, there are always people who have historically purchased more camera than they need because they're after one feature, i.e. burst rate. If we look at Canon's *full frame* offerings on the market right now, the fastest burst rate you can get without going to a 1DX series body is 7fps on a 5D IV. Now the 1DX III will get you up to 20 fps in live view, so there's a considerable gap in performance in the line at the moment. I would bet that there is a subset of 1DX users who wanted only a solid burst rate and reasonable low light sensitivity, and the rest of the features may be overkill for their need. I could see them moving down, but who knows how many people that would equate to.

In addition, there have been those expressing frustration that the 1DX III didn't move up in resolution. Getting 14 fps on a 40-45MP body would very likely be tempting for wildlife shooters who are going to be limited on how close they can get/what lens they happen to have ready to go. I mean, resolution has its place in wildlife photography as well - some users on this forum take incredible images of BIF using a 5Ds/sR series body despite the frame rate.


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## BillB (Jan 28, 2020)

ahsanford said:


> One might argue the 5DS needs more attention than the 5D# line, though.
> 
> Forget adding new stuff like IBIS -- the 5DS/5DSR presently lacks:
> 
> ...


With major sensor and processor upgrades, plus the need to refine EVF technology and firmware , I wonder whether Canon is paying much attention to historical update cycles. It may be more a question of how soon Canon can get a rock solid product out the door. In terms of market priorities, my guess is that the 5DV mirrorless market is a much bigger deal than the high res market. From a technical point of view the high res version may be less challenging than a mirrorless replacement for the 5DIV.


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## tron (Jan 28, 2020)

ahsanford said:


> That's a bit much. I see a pro control set with the thumb wheel as a way for Canon to argue for 'pro FF' $3k for a mirrorless 5D.
> 
> That doesn't instantly devalue what the R and RP do today. They still are FF cameras that can do some impressive things.
> 
> - A


Plus, they have a different form of back wheel. It is just positioned differently. For example we can still control shutter and aperture separately using one finger for each.


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## Graphic.Artifacts (Jan 28, 2020)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> I had scratched my head over the thought of a 5DS or 5DSR replacement with mirrorless coming first. If one did, it would actually still make a good 5D mk iv alternative, because the file size can be set lower.
> 
> But for landscape photography with a 5DSR, I don't think IBIS would matter, and a mirrorless replacement will still end up on a tripod and be shot one frame at a time. So I feel like the 5DSR has plenty of shelf life left.
> 
> Something above the EOS R and with two cards that's more 5D mk iv-like seems like a better niche to replace first.


I suspect a modern 45 MP sensor with DPAF and possibly IBIS based multisampling will compare very favorably with the 5DSR. Then, after Canon sells a bunch of those, they can bring out the enhanced high MP version. Canon knows how to sell cameras.

Edit. Before Digic X it didn’t seem like the processing was there for a high speed camera hence the acceptance of the slow FR high MP rumor. Canon might have been doing their homework.

Edit 2. It’s also possible that canon looked at the ultra high MP sensor and decided it wasn’t achieving any significant additional benefit. Sony and Panasonic/Tower Jazz both settled on the mid forties for their high Rez offerings. Maybe that is the sweet spot. I have no reason to believe they couldn’t have gone higher if they wanted to.


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## docsmith (Jan 28, 2020)

My biggest question mark with this new camera is going to be about how good is the autofocus. How fast? How accurate? I am impressed with what I've seen about the latest R firmware. I am hearing good things. I have been testing the M6II for some BIF. It is pretty good, but I still am preferring my 5DIV. 

But, assuming the specs mean something in the vicinity of:

 40-45 MP
~12 fps max burst rate
Slight (~1/3 to 1/2 stop) sensor improvement (eg similar to M6II vs M6)
Good weathersealing/ergonomics
If that camera has good AF, that is a real show stopper. After some recent shoots, I have been reminding myself how good the 5DIV really is and thinking I may stay DSLR for awhile. But, 40-45 MP at ~12 fps would be such an exceptional camera, especially for something like wildlife.....If the AF is worthy.

As for video, if that makes others happy, great. I shoot FHD, 30 fps. So, you know, I was set in 2012.


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## dwarven (Jan 28, 2020)

Where's the RF lens news


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## mpmark (Jan 28, 2020)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> I suspect a modern 45 MP sensor with DPAF and possibly IBIS based multisampling will compare very favorably with the 5DSR. Then, after Canon sells a bunch of those, they can bring out the enhanced high MP version. Canon knows how to sell cameras.
> 
> Edit. Before Digic X it didn’t seem like the processing was there for a high speed camera hence the acceptance of the slow FR high MP rumor. Canon might have been doing their homework.



the 5Div is still a fantastic camera, I have owned all the 5Dline cameras to date, for me the only problem I have is the miss rate of using a 35ii 1.4 and 85L1.4 on it as it uses PDAF, I find the new way of autofocusing on the mirrorless to be quite and advantage and thats what drives me to get one, I'm just wiating as the current R is not much of an upgrade. But we know things are happening soon with new releases so its a bit frustrating but good times ahead I believe.


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## Kit Lens Jockey (Jan 28, 2020)

juststeve said:


> I expect Canon wants to have that camera and a set of trinity lenses available for a sidearm for every 1DX iii they loan out at the Olympics


I seriously doubt this, based on this look at what Canon had available at the 2018 winter Olympics. I see nothing but 1DXs in these photos. Seems to me that when it comes to something as action-heavy as the Olympics, it's a 1D level camera or nothing as far as Canon is concerned. If anyone will have a "sidearm" at the Olympics for their 1DX MkIII, it will be another 1DX MkIII.

And the IDX MkII was many years old already back in 2018, and it still completely dominated what Canon had on hand at the Olympics. You really think they will release a brand-spanking new IDX just ahead of these Olympics and have anything *but* that camera there? No way, it will be IDX MkIII as far as the eye can see. They did not put all that effort into the new IDX just to have it share the stage with some other camera at the biggest sporting event of the year.

The RF lenses and the R cameras are something Canon recognizes they need to do for the sake of their business in the future, so they're doing that. But when push comes to shove at a professional sports level, those lenses and cameras are still completely irrelevant, at least for now. That's why we just got a new IDX. Now, five years from now maybe things will be different.






A look at Canon’s impressive support operation at the Winter Olympics


It's pretty much expected to see huge support from camera companies when it comes to global sporting events. If you've followed camera news for a while, you've probably seen the photos: Huge rooms filled to the brim…



www.imaging-resource.com


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## dwarven (Jan 28, 2020)

docsmith said:


> My biggest question mark with this new camera is going to be about how good is the autofocus. How fast? How accurate?



Let's just say after being spoiled with the current R's autofocus, I won't be going back to a DSLR.


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## Dragon (Jan 28, 2020)

nwardrip said:


> Now this is a camera to be excited about and what Canon should have had a couple years ago. I will certainly be in the preorder line for such a camera.
> 
> 75MP is just too much for most people. 40MP is reasonable, but if we're talking 8K (even timelapse), then shouldn't the sensor be 8192 x 5460 = ~45MP or something close to that?


For 8k 17:9, 45 MP. For 8k TV (16:9), 40 MP. Hence the uncertainty regarding the resolution. The source probably doesn't know whether the camera does Cine aspect ratio or 16:9, but just knows that it does "8k" and no crop.


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## tron (Jan 28, 2020)

After all these rumors and talks I expect a 5DMkV/R5 with 32 mpixels, 8 fps, 4K30 FF video and 4K60 cropped.
That's all folks! 

PS: With No IBIS of course!
PS2: Maybe with a nice print button!
P.S3 But don't worry it will support video at 24fps


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## mpmark (Jan 28, 2020)

Kit Lens Jockey said:


> I seriously doubt this, based on this look at what Canon had available at the 2018 winter Olympics. I see nothing but 1DXs in these photos. Seems to me that when it comes to something as action-heavy as the Olympics, it's a 1D level camera or nothing as far as Canon is concerned. If anyone will have a "sidearm" at the Olympics for their 1DX MkIII, it will be another 1DX MkIII.
> 
> And the IDX MkII was many years old already back in 2018, and it still completely dominated what Canon had on hand at the Olympics. You really think they will release a brand-spanking new IDX just ahead of these Olympics and have anything *but* that camera there? No way, it will be IDX MkIII as far as the eye can see. They did not put all that effort into the new IDX just to have it share the stage with some other camera at the biggest sporting event of the year.
> 
> ...



exactly!


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## Dragon (Jan 28, 2020)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> I suspect a modern 45 MP sensor with DPAF and possibly IBIS based multisampling will compare very favorably with the 5DSR. Then, after Canon sells a bunch of those, they can bring out the enhanced high MP version. Canon knows how to sell cameras.
> 
> Edit. Before Digic X it didn’t seem like the processing was there for a high speed camera hence the acceptance of the slow FR high MP rumor. Canon might have been doing their homework.
> 
> Edit 2. It’s also possible that canon looked at the ultra high MP sensor and decided it wasn’t achieving any significant additional benefit. Sony and Panasonic/Tower Jazz both settled on the mid forties for their high Rez offerings. Maybe that is the sweet spot. I have no reason to believe they couldn’t have gone higher if they wanted to.


Sony went to 61 MP 6 months ago. Canon will have a camera to top that. I think the 40 MP and 75/80 MP bodies will be announced simultaneously or very nearly.


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## Gloads (Jan 28, 2020)

Kit Lens Jockey said:


> I agree this seems odd. The only way I could see that this would be a possibility is maybe doing all of the advanced things they are doing with the 1DX3's separate autofocus sensor is somehow more taxing on the processor than just having all of the image capturing and autofocusing happening right on the sensor as a mirrorless camera does? But then this doesn't really make sense, as I thought it's generally accepted that having that constant feed from the sensor to the EVF is generally more taxing on the processor than having an OVF. Maybe this new camera just uses a completely new/more advanced architecture that makes more efficient use of the processor's power compared to the 1DX which perhaps they kept using a somewhat older architecture just for the sake of reliability?
> 
> Not saying any of this is actually the case, and not saying I actually believe that the new mirrorless will arrive with specs that essentially trounce the IDX, but if it *did*, this is my wild, baseless speculation as to why.


It could be that the 1DX3 has some limit on FPS other than throughput, and so 20 FPS is max, regardless of resolution. CF Express / PCIe 3.0 certainly could handle it. I would hope that any other output (EVF, AF, Etc...) was parallel on inline use of the same sensor read.


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## ahsanford (Jan 28, 2020)

reefroamer said:


> Canon isn’t locked into their current product segmentation. It’s always a shifting target.




Sure, but their ability to shift things is somewhat limited. Major shifts in value/features bring some risk as well as opportunity. For instance, they have a ton of existing product inventory they'd rather not set on fire with a highly disruptive value proposition.

I'm not saying Canon can't give more per dollar, but if they give too much more per dollar it will hurt them in other ways.

Do I want them to make this camera? Hell yes.

Do I think they will make this camera? Hell no.

- A


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## juststeve (Jan 28, 2020)

Kit Lens Jockey said:


> I seriously doubt this, based on this look at what Canon had available at the 2018 winter Olympics. I see nothing but 1DXs in these photos. Seems to me that when it comes to something as action-heavy as the Olympics, it's a 1D level camera or nothing as far as Canon is concerned. If anyone will have a "sidearm" at the Olympics for their 1DX MkIII, it will be another 1DX MkIII.


I seriously doubt Canon won't make available and have hundreds of them ready for loan if the new mirrorless comes in at 10+ FPS and 36+ MP and dual-pixel AF even better than what we now have with the R and the M6 ii. Past usage does not mean much right now. Times they are a changing far too fast.

A considerable majority of the photographers credentialed for the Olympics are going to be people at the very top in talent and skill, and not stupid. A lot of them are going to be a little gray about the edges. Sure that 1DXiii is going to be bolted to the 200-400s, 400/2.8s and 600/4s but they are likely to be covering 2-3 maybe 4 events in a day, working 16 hour days. A camera little heavier than an R, hardly any larger and able to bolt to that RF 70-200/2.8 is going to look very attractive for the second body. Perhaps not to all, but to many. 

Most of these people are going to be able to figure out very quickly how to maximize the features and advantages of a top-flight mirrorless. Like I said earlier, these are not stupid people and they will choose the best tool for the job. Likely that will be the 1DX iii for the most intense part of competitions but for human interest, scene setting, injury drama a lighter, more compact, higher pixel count camera could well be the best tool, especially with those super fine RF lenses.

A key tell whether this is an aim for Canon is whether the 5D v type mirrorless can take the external wifi unit for the 1DXiii.


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## Kit Lens Jockey (Jan 29, 2020)

juststeve said:


> I seriously doubt Canon won't make available and have hundreds of them ready for loan if the new mirrorless comes in at 10+ FPS and 36+ MP and dual-pixel AF even better than what we now have with the R and the M6 ii. Past usage does not mean much right now. Times they are a changing far too fast.
> 
> A considerable majority of the photographers credentialed for the Olympics are going to be people at the very top in talent and skill, and not stupid. A lot of them are going to be a little gray about the edges. Sure that 1DXiii is going to be bolted to the 200-400s, 400/2.8s and 600/4s but they are likely to be covering 2-3 maybe 4 events in a day, working 16 hour days. A camera little heavier than an R, hardly any larger and able to bolt to that RF 70-200/2.8 is going to look very attractive for the second body. Perhaps not to all, but to many.
> 
> ...


Possibly, but there's also a lot to be said for not having to fool around trying to adapt back and forth between two completely different cameras. The whole experience of using a DSLR and a mirrorless couldn't be more different, and that's before you even get into the differences in the controls and handling between the two of them. I think in such a fast paced environment when there's no time to think, most photographers would just grab one and stick with it, most likely the 1DX.


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## tpatana (Jan 29, 2020)

djkraq said:


> What kinda unicorn bu.... Well, some of this is possible but I just don’t expect this out of Canon. The 1DX 3 doesn’t even do 4K 120 so why put that in this? Who’s been asking for 4K 120?



I don't know but I've been asking for 1080p240 (or 480 would be ok too).

4k120 would be ok compromise

Don't think I trust this rumor though.


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## reefroamer (Jan 29, 2020)

ahsanford said:


> Sure, but their ability to shift things is somewhat limited. Major shifts in value/features bring some risk as well as opportunity. For instance, they have a ton of existing product inventory they'd rather not set on fire with a highly disruptive value proposition.
> 
> I'm not saying Canon can't give more per dollar, but if they give too much more per dollar it will hurt them in other ways.
> 
> ...


What you describe is business as usual. But Canon could become the disruptor. It’s very possible their DSLR inventories have been dwindling as they've shift resources and production capacity to mirrorless. We mortals don’t know. And the company could be willing to leave money on the table now as the price to achieve a longer term strategy. That's not the usual Canon way, for sure. But it’s not an unprecedented in business. just one example: In the early 1980s when stodgy IBM suddenly took on upstart Apple in the early PC days, Fortune magazine headlined a story, “The Elephant Learns to Dance.” Maybe Canon's ready dance. Hope so.


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## Cochese (Jan 29, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> How do you know what the DIGIC X processor is capable of?
> 
> These two products would be for two completely different customers.


Not to mention this could be something added to the 1DX via firmware update. It would make sense and it would also make sense that it's not being announced since the 1DX MIII isn't out yet, and the "R5" isn't even announced at all.


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## Cochese (Jan 29, 2020)

ahsanford said:


> Sure, but their ability to shift things is somewhat limited. Major shifts in value/features bring some risk as well as opportunity. For instance, they have a ton of existing product inventory they'd rather not set on fire with a highly disruptive value proposition.
> 
> I'm not saying Canon can't give more per dollar, but if they give too much more per dollar it will hurt them in other ways.
> 
> ...


That's a bad argument, really. People, especially beginners and those on a budget, will lap up cheap DSLRs. If Canon were sitting on a ton of unsold inventory and wanted them gone, they'd just do a firesale/ clearance sale. Slash the price on all of the bottom tier cameras and accompanying lenses. The way the market works, you'll get a few thousand people buying them for their closet so they can tell everybody about their nice "high end camera" they have, but never use. And then you'll have another few thousand sold to student news papers and whatnot at various schools and colleges. And then toss in all of the rest of the spectrum of people who will either get one for Christmas or give one for christmas/ birthdays. That'd be a big portion of inventory gone. 

You'd think it'd interfere with the mirrorless camera sales, but it won't. The higher price of the system would put it above those people's range anyway. I do not assume Canon has millions or even tens of thousands of each camera in inventory. They've been on the same pattern for decades. I'm positive, at this point, they know exactly how many of their cameras are going to sell and only produce a little more a head of time. So massive pools of leftover inventory likely doesn't exist.


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## canonnews (Jan 29, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...



Actually 8K 30 fps is one thing that made sense from a processing capability.

1DX Mark III does 5.5K RAW at 60 fps which isn't that far off from 8K30p.


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## gouldopfl (Jan 29, 2020)

ahsanford said:


> CR guy, I think what paints everyone's expectations is that any new FF camera -- if real -- is going to fall into a 1-series / 5-series / 6-series sort of slot in the lineup, with its relative prestige and asking price, etc. And the spec list we've seen (regardless of who it is aimed at in the market) is comically above/beyond what Canon's brand-spanking-new 1DX3* can do.
> 
> That -- above all else -- doesn't compute for many of us, myself included.
> 
> ...


If Canon wants to out do Sony they have to come out with something spectacular which will be in the price range of Sony. Canon has developed a family of lenses RF which are the best in the market although pricey. I have only purchased one RF lens and use the adapter for my EF lenses which appear to work better than on my 5D Mark IV.


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## Michael Clark (Feb 2, 2020)

Trey T said:


> if they bring back the rear thumb wheel, seen on 5D/7d/1d, the EOS R and RP will have a status of rebel-equivalent



The R and RP have the second wheel, it's just up at the top of the camera back and horizontal instead of vertical (Nikon D7xx0 style). The Rebels don't have a second wheel anywhere.


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## Michael Clark (Feb 2, 2020)

Kit Lens Jockey said:


> I seriously doubt this, based on this look at what Canon had available at the 2018 winter Olympics. I see nothing but 1DXs in these photos. Seems to me that when it comes to something as action-heavy as the Olympics, it's a 1D level camera or nothing as far as Canon is concerned. If anyone will have a "sidearm" at the Olympics for their 1DX MkIII, it will be another 1DX MkIII.
> 
> And the IDX MkII was many years old already back in 2018, and it still completely dominated what Canon had on hand at the Olympics. You really think they will release a brand-spanking new IDX just ahead of these Olympics and have anything *but* that camera there? No way, it will be IDX MkIII as far as the eye can see. They did not put all that effort into the new IDX just to have it share the stage with some other camera at the biggest sporting event of the year.
> 
> ...



The 1D X Mark II first shipped in April 2016 a few months before the 2016 Summer Olympiad. It was less than two years old in early 2018 during the 2018 Winter Games. That's not exactly "many years old."


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## Michael Clark (Feb 2, 2020)

dwarven said:


> Let's just say after being spoiled with the current R's autofocus, I won't be going back to a DSLR.



Considering the fact that the OVF AF sensor in the 1D X Mark III is essentially another CMOS sensor (a first for Canon, or anyone else for that matter), rather than a line sensor as all OVF based PDAF sensors in the past, you might be surprised by its performance.


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## Michael Clark (Feb 2, 2020)

ahsanford said:


> CR guy, I think what paints everyone's expectations is that any new FF camera -- if real -- is going to fall into a 1-series / 5-series / 6-series sort of slot in the lineup, with its relative prestige and asking price, etc. And the spec list we've seen (regardless of who it is aimed at in the market) is comically above/beyond what Canon's brand-spanking-new 1DX3* can do.
> 
> That -- above all else -- doesn't compute for many of us, myself included.
> 
> ...




As far as stills via the OVF goes, thinks about this. The new OVF based AF sensor for the 1D X Mark III is essentially another CMOS sensor, rather than a PDAF line sensor as every DSLR in existence from any company thus far has used. That has to have a higher processing overhead than the older line type sensors. The 1D X Mark III is processing the information from the (dual pixel monochrome?) CMOS AF sensor, the CMOS RGB+IR metering sensor, and then integrating all of that data together, and comparing the results with what is likely the most extensive library of different scenarios ever included in a camera's internal database - in addition to processing the images coming off the 20MP imaging sensor.


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## hne (Feb 2, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> As far as stills via the OVF goes, thinks about this. The new OVF based AF sensor for the 1D X Mark III is essentially another CMOS sensor, rather than a PDAF line sensor as every DSLR in existence from any company thus far has used. That has to have a higher processing overhead than the older line type sensors. The 1D X Mark III is processing the information from the (dual pixel monochrome?) CMOS AF sensor, the CMOS RGB+IR metering sensor, and then integrating all of that data together, and comparing the results with what is likely the most extensive library of different scenarios ever included in a camera's internal database - in addition to processing the images coming off the 20MP imaging sensor.



The AE sensor data usable for subject recognition is only about 800x500 pixels, or according to Canon "approximately 400'000 pixels". The new AF sensor has 100x more pixels than the 61-point sensors previously used (which have ~70 line sensors). So... another 1Mpx. In total, the amount of data processed is roughly the same as a 1080p video stream. Smartphones have been able to run that kind of data through deep learning neural networks in realtime on general-purpose CPUs for years. But in the last few years we've also seen the appearance of TPUs. I believe there is a TPU core stuck in the DIGIC X chip, because of some mentions of handover to that chip for "AF Priority (people)" in cases where face detection fails.

Deep learning is computationally expensive only in the learning phase. The use of the trained network for classification is definitely something that can be done in embedded systems like a DSLR. There is no database needed in the camera. It has already been reduced to weights:


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