# T2i Replacement?



## ericax17 (Oct 17, 2010)

Hey everyone!

I'm looking into buying my first DSLR and was interested in the T2i. But it came out way back in February, and I was wondering if a replacement of it is going to come out anytime soon, because I would rather wait for it. 

Thanks,
Erica


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## Edwin Herdman (Oct 17, 2010)

You won't take any pictures without a camera - if you need one, you might as well just jump on the T2i. Right now, some websites are offering a large rebate if you buy a camera and a Pixma photo printer, too. The only features the T2i added over the old model were negligible increases in resolution and some improvement of high sensitivity modes. That's about it.

The T1i came out about 9 months before the T2i, but that was arguably a case of Canon wanting to replace the T1i with a consumer-oriented model with standard video, with 1080p @ 24 and 30 fps, and 720p at 50 and 60 FPS. From everything I've seen that's about it, honestly. Perhaps you're lucky to have missed out on the T1i, but there's no rush to replace the T2i. From DP Review's T2i review:


> Quite simply, taken as a whole, it is the best camera of its class that we've ever seen, and one of those rare cameras that won't look out of date in a couple of years' time.


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## unfocused (Oct 17, 2010)

Agreed.

The T2i won't be upgraded because there is nothing to upgrade on it right now. Its major features are almost the same as the newly-released 60D and they aren't that much different from the top of the line 7D. 

Until Canon releases the next generation of the 7D there won't be any room for upgrades on the T2i. 

You might see some upgrades on the less expensive Rebels, but they won't bring them up to the level of the T2i.


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## traveller (Oct 17, 2010)

An interesting question would be what will Canon add to future Rebel series cameras to update them? Come to mention it, what will a 1000D replacement look like?

The lower end of the Canon line-up is starting to look a little bit crowded with very similar models. With the 450D (XSi), Canon reached a feature peak, that with the exception of sensor resolution and HD video, it has yet to really excede. The 500D (T1i) is a 450D with HD video and the newer 15MP sensor; the 550D (T2i) is a 500D with better HD video and the new 18MP sensor. So what a future 600D (T3i) have? There's not really much further that they can take it with HD video (that a non-pro user would care about). Will Canon really start to push APS-C resolution above 20MP (don't answer that!)?!!! 

Similarly, what features can they knock off the feature list to make the 2000D superior to the 1000D and 500D, yet inferior to the 550D? 

My guess is that they will soon kill off the 1000D line (for a while at least) and drop the prices of the 500D and 550D a 'slot'. This will also allow the 60D to drop in price, which it needs to do as the Nikon D7000 is a much superior camera (I assume that Canon is making a better margin on the 60D than Nikon is on the D7000 -if not then they're in trouble). 

Quite what will happen in the longer term is unclear; would a simple sensor upgrade be enough to sell a 600D over the 550D? My guess is that they'll have to start thinking of something different and not just gimmicks like Sony's sweep panorama and in camera HDR (not that there's anything wrong with providing these, they're just not enough on their own).


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## oupoliscigrad (Oct 17, 2010)

I agree that a T2i replacement would start to move into 60D territory. And honestly it seems that the 60D was targeted more at consumers than even the 50D was, so it feels like the two are starting to mesh together a bit. At this point I think Canon needs to start simplifying their lineup in terms of pro-level features/controls and then put as much work as possible into improving the sensors, so they have fewer tiers to develop for.

For example, I don't see why the 1000D and 450D need to be separate cameras. I mean, the only difference between the two that I can tell is the body style and professional grips. I shoot with a 450D and can't imagine being satisfied shooting with something a step down. And the T1i and T2i seems, for lack of a better word, redundant. Then you've got the 60D, which seems like basically a T2i in a bigger body.

The 5D and 7D are obviously in a class of their own.

Personally I would like to see one Rebel body. I don't have access to all of Canon's market research, so I'm not going to presume to know better, but I can't imagine why having more than one (perhaps two) Rebel model at a time is good. It's more confusing for entry-level consumers. What makes more sense to me is to designate a single Rebel body as the entry-level consumer model DSLR and the 60D as the mid-range consumer DSLR, with the 7D and 5D being the high-end consumer/entry-level professional. Then price it all in increments of $500 (body only) with perhaps varying kit combinations to create more SKUs if that's what their goal is.


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## ELK (Oct 18, 2010)

ericax17 said:


> Hey everyone!
> 
> I'm looking into buying my first DSLR and was interested in the T2i. But it came out way back in February, and I was wondering if a replacement of it is going to come out anytime soon, because I would rather wait for it.
> 
> ...



Hi Erica

T2i is in my wishlist as a backup for my 40D. It's far superior in some features, although has worse ergonomics, and is light therefore I think I will carry T2i more and finally sell my 40d for 7D. For now I'm waiting T2i to drop in price a little bit more, say near $500 (it's comes now for example around $925at BH as a 18-55 IS and 55-250 IS kit, so when we subtact the lens prices, the body price makes about $600).


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## J (Oct 20, 2010)

Just as a thought exercise, the last few Rebels (450D & 500D) have spent a year as the top Rebel, which means that the T2i's year will be up early next year, if the schedule holds.

Seeing that the T2i already has the best APS sensor Canon has available, I'm thinking the Rebel schedule will slip next year. Or will Canon put a non-MP upgrade into the Rebel line for once? Or would they rather debut a new sensor?


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## Edwin Herdman (Oct 22, 2010)

ELK said:


> For now I'm waiting T2i to drop in price a little bit more, say near $500 (it's comes now for example around $925at BH as a 18-55 IS and 55-250 IS kit, so when we subtact the lens prices, the body price makes about $600).


B&H might be offering you a couple cheap lenses you will have to sell to make that price back (which is, honestly, what I've been considering doing with the Pixma photo printer rebate), but the actual body only price is still around $720 (Adorama; B&H prices always track when I compare them, usually right down to the penny, at least for new stuff).

It seems to me that whenever I've done the numbers on kits at Adorama or B&H I find out they're more expensive than I would have paid to get the items separately. (Disregarding all the silly filters, cleaning cloths, cheap holster bags, and other garbage I don't order from them anyway; maybe those are good deals, if only you're satisfied with those exact items, which I rarely find to be the case).



oupoliscigrad said:


> At this point I think Canon needs to start simplifying their lineup in terms of pro-level features/controls and then put as much work as possible into improving the sensors, so they have fewer tiers to develop for.


There are lots of people who will buy a DSLR for $300, but not for even $500. Or put another way, they will buy the $300 camera, always, but maybe have their mind set on a DSLR. Everybody has to target that price range with something - perhaps an older camera that's been priced down - because the competition will make the sale if they don't. You can't entirely dismiss the idea of budget DSLR users as people who should be going to compact cameras, because they might buy any type of lens for their DSLR. I have a TS-E for my own T1i which is going to seem like overkill to an extent, but if Canon had priced the camera out of my budget they wouldn't have made the lens sale.

What I will agree on is that Canon doesn't need tons of tiers of new product, but if you look at it carefully, they really don't. There are only two "amateur" DSLRs, with the 7D being marketed for the "advanced amateur" or "prosumer" or whatever segment (but really having a feature set more suited to a professional's second camera, or perhaps a cheaper 1D sports camera with yet more reach). The T2i is from early this year, and the 60D has some development time on that (not to mention more features).


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## unfocused (Oct 22, 2010)

> For now I'm waiting T2i to drop in price a little bit more, say near $500 (it's comes now for example around $925 at BH as a 18-55 IS and 55-250 IS kit, so when we subtract the lens prices, the body price makes about $600).



I think your pricing is a little aggressive. Looks like both Adorama and B&H are selling the kit for about $850 and the kit plus 55-250mm for about $1,000. That's with Canon's rebates included. You can do the math any way you want: Body sells for about $719, Kit lens (does anyone ever buy this alone?) for $170 and 55-250 mm for about $229. Total of about $1,118, so the real discount on the package is around $118. 

You'd have to assume that the whole discount is coming off the price of the camera body to get it to $600, which just isn't the case. 

I'd say the biggest discounts are coming off the kit lens and the 55-250mm zoom. Still a good deal and the 55-250mm zoom is one of the best bargains available even at full price â€“ second only to the 50mm f1.8

But, to the point, I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for the T2i to drop to $500 (or even $600) body only, especially while it still boasts the top of the line crop sensor.


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## lightsabre (Oct 22, 2010)

Based on Canon's product schedules over the past few years, T3i should be announced some time in March 2011. However, product schedules are know to change...

In my opinion T3i is a challenge for Canon. Digital cameras have moved into the territory of electronics gadgets from mere photographic tools in the past. The appearance of mirrorless cameras with dSLR sensors will just hasten the pace of this change.

Therefore, Canon's strategy for T3i may change in accordance to this changing market conditions. Canon will need to:

1) Defend against traditional dSLRs from Nikon, Olympus and Pentax - All these time, Rebels have been Canon's stronghold and cash-cow. There is for Canon a need to defend this position. So I would think there will not be a a radical change in the design on the new Rebel. However, even to defend the Rebel's position will require a little more effort nowadays. I expect some changes such as:
- Swivel Screen - This seems to be the trend nowadays.
- Sensor Improvements - This has been consistent and Canon has continued to make sensor development to be their main focus. With the 120mpx and 20" sensor sample they were showing earlier, it is not impossible for Canon to be releasing a new sensor soon.
- Electronic Leveling - This is already in the G12. I am not surprised if it is included in the Rebel.
- HDR
- Filter effects - Miniaturization, etc...
- AF - I was hoping for Canon to improve on the no. of AF Points but I think it is unlikely now since the 60D only has 9. I think the theory on the AF points being linked to the AF assist flash frequency may be true. So it is either 7,9,19 or 45 points.
- Viewfinder - I was hoping the Viewfinder will improve as well but if Canon were to reduce the size of the camera, this may be difficult

2) Defend against the onslaught of mirrorless interchangeable cameras by:
- Reducing the overall SIZE - The only advantage of the mirrorless is size of the body. The lenses are not even that small
- Improving the performance of Contrast Detect AF - This is useful during live-view and video recording. Mirrorless and Pelix cameras from Sony boasts of faster CDAF
- Improving the chic factor of Rebels - Entry level dSLR users may care about sexy looks
- Maybe Reducing Flange Distance - Most mirrorless cameras have very short flange distance. This means that adapters are available to mount lenses such as Zeiss, Leica and others can be easily mounted. Unfortunately this would mean that a new mount standards would be required. I am highly doubtful Canon will launch a new lens mount for the Rebel series.

One strategy that Canon could adopt may be to position the 2000D to compete with the entry level mirrorless cameras while maintaining the T3i as the entry level dSLR to compete in that space. I speculate that they may even try to merge the Powershot G series with the 2000D eventually.


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## ericax17 (Oct 22, 2010)

Thanks for your input everyone. I decided to buy the T2i. I just got it today and I'm in love with it. Best Buy had the T2i kit, an extra lens (EF 75-300mm) and a Canon bag to hold all of it for $999.97. ;D


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## Macadameane (Oct 22, 2010)

Not too shabby, I would have expected Best Buy to rip you off more than that


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## scalesusa (Oct 26, 2010)

There may be a new model, but it would likely have a few relatively minor improvements. You should be able to count on using a model for about 4-5 years before there are enough improvements to consider replacing it. The T2i seems to have most things people want.


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## epsiloneri (Oct 27, 2010)

ericax17 said:


> But it came out way back in February, and I was wondering if a replacement of it is going to come out anytime soon, because I would rather wait for it.



Waaaay back in February? Not even 10 months old and already worried about its replacement? Ah, kids today...


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## Braith7 (Nov 5, 2010)

Hi Guys, Im in the exact same position as Erica was and have been wondering the same thing... with a twist.

As you all pointed out there isnt much more available that Canon could put into a T3i to make one worth releasing but they need to keep releasing new products...

Is there any danger that they start replacing the more entry level DSLRs with a new technology to take on the 4/3, interchangable, mirrorless etc etc models that lightsabre refers to. I can see this happening - smaller, faster, cheaper at the enthusiast end of the (traditionally) DSLR market.

I bought an expensive Camcorder last year because I couldnt afford a 5D or any other DSLR that had good video, about six months later the 550D (T2i) came out and made me weep. But as Edwin points out, if I had waited I wouldnt have any video of the first six months of my daughters life.

I accept that if I buy a 550D (T2i) tomorrow, a better version wont come out the next day - But will I be buying in during the last days of Rome, just before non-full frame DSLRs are forever more seen as being from that strange period before "X" technology? Are the days of the entry level DSLR numbered?

Thanks for your help.


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## Rocky (Nov 5, 2010)

Braith7 said:


> Are the days of the entry level DSLR numbered?



Entry level DSLR will be around for quite a while. Not that many people will spend upward of $1600 for a camera body. Just look at the number of EF-S that Canon have introduced in the last couple years, you can be assured that APS-C sensor will be around for awhile also. One of the major advantage of any DSLR is the shutter lag time. They are down to about 1/6 of a second or less. The mirrorless large sensor camera are having shutter lag of at least twice as that. This could mean that you can miss the"Kodak Moment" easily.


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## unfocused (Nov 5, 2010)

> Are the days of the entry level DSLR numbered?



As I was writing this, Rocky beat me to it with his post. At the risk of being redundant: No one can give a definitive answer, but here are a few things to consider. 

Entry level DSLR's are a huge profit center for camera manufacturers. They not only provide the core revenues that allow manufacturers to invest in the research, tooling and manufacturing of higher-end models, but they also provide an upgrade path that allows companies like Canon to attract customers with an initial, low-cost offering and then eventually up-sell those same customers with higher-end models. 

As the quantity and quality of crop-sensor lenses increase, it becomes less and less likely that manufacturers will ever abandon the APS-C market. There are just too many bodies and lenses already out there to walk away from this market anytime soon. With the introduction last year of the 7D, Canon began offering a professional-grade APS-C sensor camera. Canon and Nikon both now have a continuum of crop-sensor models designed to take their customers from beginner through semi-pro. They are not going to abandon this strategy anytime soon.

Does that mean that eventually technology won't make Single Lens Reflex cameras obsolete? Not necessarily. Everything changes and the pace of change keeps accelerating. Just like your home VCR or your Walkman, the technology will inevitably change and SLRs may become obsolete some day (after all, we are talking about a technology that actually predates photography). But, it isn't going to happen overnight and it certainly isn't going to happen before all the current DSLR models have been replaced many times over.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 5, 2010)

unfocused said:


> There are just too many bodies and lenses already out there to walk away from this market anytime soon.



Remember when Apple released the iMac with no internal floppy drive? Everyone said that was a terrible idea that would fail in the marketplace. Apple was just ahead of the curve - try to find any PC sold today that with an internal floppy drive...

I'm sure similar statements were made in 1987, when Canon abandoned the FD lens mount which had been the standard on Canon bodies and lenses for 16 years. 

Nikon, on the other hand, has used the F mount for over 50 years now (resulting in lots of confusion, IMO, about which lens features are compatible with which bodies, even though all the lenses physically mount to all the bodies).

My point is that Canon has expressed a willingness to make some radical shifts in the past, despite the impact on consumers. I agree that i's unlikely the APS-C format will go away soon, but never say never...


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## Justin (Nov 5, 2010)

The promise for APS-C is in a much smaller format camera with a mirrorless solution. This would require a different mount to effectively diminish the size of the system. I see the full frame sensor getting a new body soon. And then down the road a medium format sensor would make sense with a third main category of lenses to mount.

My guess on what 10 years from now looks like:

APS-C = mirrorless (all new lens lineup, with an adapter can use legacy EF-S lenses)
Fullframe - dslr legacy (uses all ef mount current and 2010 near future "legacy" lenses, no new lenses are made)
Medium format - dslr studio, landscape, architecture, and general purpose (new lens mount, most of the optics manufacturing money goes here now). The system would be modular like the current medium systems, but it would be much smaller

Will any of this happen? You got me. But the mirrorless coat-pocketable interchangeable-lens camera market is exploding. 






neuroanatomist said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > There are just too many bodies and lenses already out there to walk away from this market anytime soon.
> ...


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