# Grand Canyon Lens suggestions



## fsu_dan17 (Feb 17, 2012)

I am going out to the Grand Canyon, Antelope Canyon, Monument Valley, and redrock in late May. I currently plan on using my 17-40 but have been reading comments about the image quality at 17mm on a FF camera(will be using either 5DII or III if it is out). I am debating on renting either the 14mm, 24mm, or 16-35mm. What do you guys think? Should I consider a good tele? 
If anyone has been to antelope canyon, I would love to know which tour you recommend for the best photography.


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## danski0224 (Feb 17, 2012)

I went and brought a 7D, 16-35 II, Tokina 11-16 and a 70-200.

I found the Tokina to be a little too wide and the 16-35 to not be wide enough. It doesn't make much sense writing it, but the pictures look different. Probably because the Tokina is made for a crop frame and the 16-35 is not.

I do not have a 14mm. 

There were times when the 200 was not enough on the 7D, but the 16-35 stayed on the camera the most.


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## smirkypants (Feb 17, 2012)

Maybe you should consider a long lens as well. You might spot something cool in the distance that you'd like to shoot... some wildlife, a cool rock formation that you'd like to frame just so, a perched bird. You might find yourself wishing you had brought a 70-300L.


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## fsu_dan17 (Feb 17, 2012)

I didn't think about the 70-300L I have the 70-200L f/4. I saw someone talk about putting taking several portait shots and combining in a cool panoramic shot. I thought about doing that. Is the 16-35 that much better than the 17-40 to justify renting it?


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## tt (Feb 17, 2012)

With the pixel peeper site you can filter Flickr shots via lens I think you could do a quick search of the various places to see what they might look at at various focal lengths


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## wickidwombat (Feb 17, 2012)

fsu_dan17 said:


> I didn't think about the 70-300L I have the 70-200L f/4. I saw someone talk about putting taking several portait shots and combining in a cool panoramic shot. I thought about doing that. Is the 16-35 that much better than the 17-40 to justify renting it?


I think it is (16-35)
and definately take a longer lens and consider portrait shot panorama. get a decent pano head though if you dont have already with a smooth rotating plate that you can lock 
maybe consider renting one of these
http://gigapan.org/cms/support/tech-specs
I have one and they are fun especially if you are driving and dont have to carry it around alot.


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## fsu_dan17 (Feb 17, 2012)

Will that fit on my MF tripod. I have the 322RC2 head on it now. I was thinking about buying another head anyway so this might work.


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## Tijn (Feb 17, 2012)

I read the 16-35 is much better than the 17-40 for superwide angle shots. On a FF camera that is, of course.


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## Caps18 (Feb 17, 2012)

I hiked with the 16-35mm down to the bottom.

I'm not sure how the 17mm TS-E would perform, but since the lens hood got a few dings on the hike down, I'm not sure if I would want it as the only lens I had. Yet, weight is important.

And I would recommend taking a panorama with a 50mm-85mm+.


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## DBCdp (Feb 17, 2012)

I know you're going to thoroughly enjoy your visit and be totally awestruck, just don't forget to actually take pictures!

I went to the mountains around Ruidoso NM last July and loved the views! I used the 17-40 on my 5D2 a lot, and the 24-105 on the 7D as well. The most spectacular shot I have, however, is a 3 level 14 shot wide vertical orientation panorama zoomed in to 105 on the 7D. I put each level (top, middle, bottom) together first, then stitched the 3 pano's together for a 4'x13' @ 300dpi view of Ski Apache and the mountains surrounding it that really takes me back there! Of course, I left the tripod in the truck an hour and a half hike behind me at 8500ft, the shot was taken from 9600' handheld and still worked out very very well.

If you only use the ultrawide for this type of shot, the details won't be as impressive and everything looks so far away. So I highly recommend you try this zoom method of Pano and be sure to take your tripod with you for the most accurate result!


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## unfocused (Feb 17, 2012)

My Grand Canyon experience:

The grand lodges, el Tovar and Thunderbird, are built along the best views. You might think you can get better views by hiking to less populated parts of the rim. You won't. They put the lodges there for a reason. 

Be prepared for crowds. Everyone else is trying to get that great sunrise or sunset picture, although most are using their iPhones. 

Most people shoot toward the sunrise or sunset, hoping to capture the Sun appearing or disappearing over the horizon. Unless the atmospheric conditions are just right, though, these aren't that great. Instead, look in the opposite direction, away from the sun and get shots of the light bouncing off the canyon walls, brilliant beautiful deep reds contrasting with black shadows.

Don't forget to turn around and look into the woods along the rim, you will almost certainly see mule deer grazing in the mornings and evenings. If you are interested in the deer, you'll need a telephoto.

The Grand Canyon is one of the few places in the country where you can see California Condors (if you are lucky). Ask the rangers about recent Condor sightings. Again, you'll need a telephoto to have any hope of catching one.


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## fsu_dan17 (Feb 17, 2012)

Just went and looked at the GigaPan Pro...it looks really cool but I am unsure if it is worth the money ($200 rental)...has anyone used it? I am a little confused on the final image...Do you have to use their software to finalize the picture or can this be done in PS5? When finished does it store like a normal file on your computer? Are there any other options that will turn out as good. I am really interested in getting pano shots of monument valley and GC.


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## SomeGuyInNewJersey (Feb 17, 2012)

fsu_dan17 said:


> I am going out to the Grand Canyon, Antelope Canyon, Monument Valley, and redrock in late May.



I'm planning on doing most those on a trip in the summer. I havent decided on the order etc yet. Would you like to share the order you are doing them in and how long your going to spend at each etc... If I'm not being to nosey


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## RC (Feb 17, 2012)

fsu_dan17 said:


> I am going out to the Grand Canyon, Antelope Canyon, Monument Valley, and redrock in late May. I currently plan on using my 17-40 but have been reading comments about the image quality at 17mm on a FF camera(will be using either 5DII or III if it is out). I am debating on renting either the 14mm, 24mm, or 16-35mm. What do you guys think? Should I consider a good tele?...



I was up there about 1 year ago with my 7D. I spent more time at Monument Valley than the Grand Canyon. At that time my widest lens was the 15-85. About 90% of my shots were at 15mm (24 for FF) and I didn't really t feel the need to go wider however a few less mm would have been nice. So for FF at MV, 24mm would be fine. I have not been to Antelope Canyon but from what I understand, you will want wide. Based on what you are debating, I'd rent the 16-35 which should be great for all parks. I now have it for my crop and I love it, should be perfect on FF. BTW, I only used my 70-200 a few times, might be more handy for FF shooters.

Time of day is essential for for these canyons. Morning, evening and midday light are like 3 different canyons. My favorite time for lighting at MV is late afternoon since it adds extra warmth and drama to all those red buttes. Lots of hard light and heavy contrast so be prepared. The GC has some many different looks based on time of the day. I prefer sunrise and very early AM. Personally I think MV is far more spectacular than the GC (unless you are going to hike to the bottom or visit the north rim). Speaking of the GC north rim, it is way more impressive (IMO) than the south rim. When at MV, don't just stop at the lookout point at the visitor's center, take the loop road (I think its 11 or 13 miles), you will be glad you did, trust me. 

About 100 miles to the SE from MV is Canyon de Chelly (pronounced canyon de shay [long "a" in shay]). If you got the time this canyon will blow you away. If you only do one thing there, drive the south rim out to Spider Rock overlook. Jeep tours in the bottom of the canyon are offered and give you a whole different look.

One final tip, lots of dust, so keep your gear protected. In May it still may be a bit windy, less so in the AM.

Enjoy your trip!


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## fsu_dan17 (Feb 17, 2012)

My plan is to arrive in Las Vegas early morning by plane and drive over to Grand Canyon. We are staying 2 nights there in park and then driving up to Monument Valley. 2 days there and then driving to Page, AZ to see Antelope Canyon and Horseshoe Bend. We are staying in page for 3 days then driving back to Vegas (through Utah with maybe a stop at Zion or Bryce Canyon. We are then stayiing in Vegas for 5 more days to have some fun and go to redrock. I probably have some time to stay longer in AZ but I had to book the hotels because they book up fast, especially the ones in GC park and the Monument Valley View Hotel (in park). Total time is about 2 weeks. Lots of driving but no more than 5 hours on any single leg. 
All of this is pending my safe return from Afghanistan...thank god for this site it is giving me something to do photography related.


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## fsu_dan17 (Feb 17, 2012)

One final tip, lots of dust, so keep your gear protected. In May it still may be a bit windy, less so in the AM.

[/quote]


do you have any recommendations on how to protect from dust other than the platic bag method? Any good rain covers that double as dust covers without breaking the bank?


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## Cardad (Feb 17, 2012)

I have been following the CR Forums for some time. This post finally prompted me to register. First, FSU_Dan, wishing you a safe and speedy return from Afghanistan! Second, I hope you do not mind piggybacking on your post. 

I am also planning a trip to the Grand Canyon, Monument Valley, Bryce Canyon, etc. in May. I will be shooting with a 7D and have an EF-S 15-85 and EF 70-300L. My only real expertise (a stretch) is motorsports (thus the 7D). I am wondering if I will be happy with the 15-85, or if I need wider (say the ef-s 10-22) or faster (a prime)? I would appreciate feedback from landscape and canyon shooters regarding lenses for the 7D on this trip.

Also, I have a good quality circular polarizer. While I hope to be able to shoot early and late, I do not plan to put the camera away mid-day. Will a neutral density filter be a must?


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## unfocused (Feb 17, 2012)

Cardad said:


> I have been following the CR Forums for some time. This post finally prompted me to register. First, FSU_Dan, wishing you a safe and speedy return from Afghanistan! Second, I hope you do not mind piggybacking on your post.
> 
> I am also planning a trip to the Grand Canyon, Monument Valley, Bryce Canyon, etc. in May. I will be shooting with a 7D and have an EF-S 15-85 and EF 70-300L. My only real expertise (a stretch) is motorsports (thus the 7D). I am wondering if I will be happy with the 15-85, or if I need wider (say the ef-s 10-22) or faster (a prime)? I would appreciate feedback from landscape and canyon shooters regarding lenses for the 7D on this trip.
> 
> Also, I have a good quality circular polarizer. While I hope to be able to shoot early and late, I do not plan to put the camera away mid-day. Will a neutral density filter be a must?



The 15-85mm will be fine for the Grand Canyon. I took along the Tokina 11-16, but I don't know if I even used it. I think I took more shots at the 85mm end than I did at the 15mm end. (Crop shots of the rising and setting sun playing against canyon walls and rocks that jut up from the bottom of the canyon).


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## DianeK (Feb 17, 2012)

Cardad said:


> Also, I have a good quality circular polarizer. While I hope to be able to shoot early and late, I do not plan to put the camera away mid-day. Will a neutral density filter be a must?



I'd be interested in the answer to this also, as I will be there in March.
Diane


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Feb 17, 2012)

My wife is going this spring with some friends, she is a point and shoot user. I was thinkiing of a G1X to replace her G11, but now I wonder if its wide enough. She will use my 7D, but does not like to and will not fool with settings.

I wonder if my 15mm FE would work on it for grand canyon? I'd likely just put on the 15-85 and let her use it on fully automatic. She really wants something small.

I guess I need to look at either a wide adapter, or a ultra wide lens on a mirrorless, if there is such a thing.


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## dryanparker (Feb 17, 2012)

I rented the 14/2.8L II as an ultra-wide option when shooting the Farmers Insurance Open at Torrey Pines in January. The perspective that lens offers is magical. Perhaps not the most versatile lens, but you'd be hard-pressed to beat it for what it does.

I've been to the Grand Canyon a few times, and last I remember, it's pretty WIDE. The 14L would be at the top of my list, personally.


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## ew20 (Feb 17, 2012)

If you can swing it, a great option is the 21mm Zeiss. Fantastic at landscapes and sharp corner to corner. It's rendering style really suits it for the colors and contrast in the rocks and sky. I sold mine and went to the 35mm, which is a solid option as well. The 35 is fantastic, so I wouldn't say I completely regret it, but IMO the Zeiss 21 is the only landscape lens I've used that surpasses the 24-TSE.


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## unfocused (Feb 17, 2012)

I don't usually post pictures, but I can't resist this one. 

Notice everyone shooting into the sun and then notice the absolutely beautiful light striking the canyon walls _behind_ them. That's what I meant when I said you don't necessarily want to just look in the direction of the light. And, BTW, the view toward the sunrise was quite ordinary, almost bland.


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## RC (Feb 17, 2012)

fsu_dan17 said:


> One final tip, lots of dust, so keep your gear protected. In May it still may be a bit windy, less so in the AM.





> do you have any recommendations on how to protect from dust other than the platic bag method? Any good rain covers that double as dust covers without breaking the bank?



Nothing too special other than avoid those clouds of dust when cars pass by on gravel roads, swap lens in your car or with the wind to your back. Might be a good idea to have a plastic bag in your pocket in case you are out a ways from your car and a wind picks up or a bunch of bikers come passing thru. May is typically a very dry month so you shouldn't have to worry about rain but be prepared just in case. The summer monsoon for the southwest doesn't begin until early July.

Stay safe, welcome home, and thank you!


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## RC (Feb 17, 2012)

Cardad said:


> I have been following the CR Forums for some time. This post finally prompted me to register. First, FSU_Dan, wishing you a safe and speedy return from Afghanistan! Second, I hope you do not mind piggybacking on your post.
> 
> I am also planning a trip to the Grand Canyon, Monument Valley, Bryce Canyon, etc. in May. I will be shooting with a 7D and have an EF-S 15-85 and EF 70-300L. My only real expertise (a stretch) is motorsports (thus the 7D). I am wondering if I will be happy with the 15-85, or if I need wider (say the ef-s 10-22) or faster (a prime)? I would appreciate feedback from landscape and canyon shooters regarding lenses for the 7D on this trip.
> 
> Also, I have a good quality circular polarizer. While I hope to be able to shoot early and late, I do not plan to put the camera away mid-day. Will a neutral density filter be a must?



I've been up there a couple of times with my 7D and 15-85. I never had a shot I could not get with 15 but like I mentioned on an earlier post, a little wider for some shots would have been nice. If it is convenient and affordable, I'd rent and bring a 10-22. 

A polarizer will be extremely useful, I don't see the need for ND filter unless you have a very fast lens you need to shoot wide open with in full sun--your 15-85 even at 3.5 will be just fine.


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## RC (Feb 17, 2012)

DianeK said:


> Cardad said:
> 
> 
> > Also, I have a good quality circular polarizer. While I hope to be able to shoot early and late, I do not plan to put the camera away mid-day. Will a neutral density filter be a must?
> ...



In case you miss my previous post:

"_A polarizer will be extremely useful, I don't see the need for ND filter unless you have a very fast lens you need to shoot wide open with in full sun--your 15-85 even at 3.5 will be just fine._"


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## keithfullermusic (Feb 17, 2012)

You might want an ND if you have a river in the pic, or if you want the sky to look smooth around sunset. I always bring one just in case.

You definitely want a grad ND. Get a square one, and you can just hold it until you get a filter holder.


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## pp77 (Feb 17, 2012)

fsu_dan17 said:


> My plan is to arrive in Las Vegas early morning by plane and drive over to Grand Canyon. We are staying 2 nights there in park and then driving up to Monument Valley. 2 days there and then driving to Page, AZ to see Antelope Canyon and Horseshoe Bend. We are staying in page for 3 days then driving back to Vegas (through Utah with maybe a stop at Zion or Bryce Canyon. We are then stayiing in Vegas for 5 more days to have some fun and go to redrock. I probably have some time to stay longer in AZ but I had to book the hotels because they book up fast, especially the ones in GC park and the Monument Valley View Hotel (in park). Total time is about 2 weeks. Lots of driving but no more than 5 hours on any single leg.
> All of this is pending my safe return from Afghanistan...thank god for this site it is giving me something to do photography related.



When I visited the Grand Canyon last time I used a crop-camera with a 24-105 and a 18-55 kit lens. It was nice to have the 24-105, to get some details like trees at the rim border or of hikers, but for the most impressive images I was using the kit lens at 18 mm and these 18 mm were enough for me.
I would recommend the south rim before the north side, you then have the sun from behind all day, which is probably better for most places there. As suggested earlier, bring a telephoto lens for the condors, often they are pretty close to the Grand Canyon Village, sometimes they even sit at the rim just a few yards away from the trail.
Bring a wide angle lens to the horseshoe bend, the wider the better! 18 mm on a crop camera is not enough to get both sides of the canyon and the river without falling down from the rocks.
For Antelope Canyon you might want to book a tour for photographers. If it is a very busy day you will not find the time to take the pictures you want because they will shoo you through the canyon and you will always have people walking around in your photos. Last time I visited the Lower Antelope Canyon I was very lucky. You always have to take a guided tour, but not many tourists visited on this day, and they gave me all the time I wanted. Visit both Antelope canyons if you can, they are different. Entrance fee it is not cheap, but worth the money.
I agree with a previous post, take the road down into the Monument valley if you have a SUV or a Jeep. The road down to the valley bottom is full of really deep potholes, but it is much better down on the bottom round tour. The perspective from down there is so different of the one from the big parking lot at the visiter center.
If I had to choose between Zion and Bryce I definitely would take Bryce Canyon. IMO it offers much more and better possibilities for photography and it really is a very beautiful place. In Bryce you are at the rim of the canyon and can take your photos from up there, while in Bryce you have to climb up to places like Angels Landing to get the best shots. Zion is nice so see, Bryce is spectacular, IMO.
Have fun and enjoy your trip!


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## ashe (Feb 17, 2012)

This is funny but I am in the process of planning the same trip except with LV and Cali included. This info is great!



fsu_dan17 said:


> I am going out to the Grand Canyon, Antelope Canyon, Monument Valley, and redrock in late May. I currently plan on using my 17-40 but have been reading comments about the image quality at 17mm on a FF camera(will be using either 5DII or III if it is out). I am debating on renting either the 14mm, 24mm, or 16-35mm. What do you guys think? Should I consider a good tele?
> If anyone has been to antelope canyon, I would love to know which tour you recommend for the best photography.


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## wickidwombat (Feb 18, 2012)

fsu_dan17 said:


> Will that fit on my MF tripod. I have the 322RC2 head on it now. I was thinking about buying another head anyway so this might work.


yeah It should the unit isn't too heavy in itself I just put it onto my benro travel angel CF tripod no problems
I also should have mentioned my favourite lens for tele panoramas is the 100 f2.8L macro
it's light , its super sharp, 100mm gives a nice detail boost to make big panoramas but not insane that you will spend 10 years processing it. also 100mm is more forgiving of slight movement than say 300mm also you can get macro shots of interesting things with the lens and it makes a wonderful portrait lens


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## Adam Schallau (Feb 18, 2012)

FSU_Dan,

To answer your original question regarding the 17-40/4L on a full-frame camera...I've owned 3 copies of the 17-40/4L, 3 copies of the 16-35/2.8L II, and also the Nikon 14-24/2.8G adapted to the Canon EF mount. I currently have, and use, the 16-35/2.8L II and the Nikon 14-24/2.8G. From a landscape shooters perspective, I found the 17-40 to be very usable at f/8 and higher, even on a full-frame body. It's performance was very similar to the 16-35 at those apertures, but I have experienced a slight improvement in corner sharpness with the 16-35. The reason I've been through so many copies of each lens was in the hopes of finding one that would still deliver acceptable results at apertures faster than f/8, which is important to me when shooting assignments, and travel stock.

That said...don't get too hung up on feeling like you have to capture the full width of the canyon in one shot. It's tempting to shoot it with an ultra-wide lens, and I've done my share of those shots, but an ultra-wide has the effect of exaggerating the distance to the opposite rim, which is already quite far away. This can also have an adverse impact on the perceived depth of the canyon. All I'm really saying is, keep your composition options open, and be willing to experiment with other lenses besides the ultra-wides.

I'd like to add that there are plenty of opportunities to use a telephoto at the Grand Canyon beyond wildlife shots. Some of my favorite shots have been created using 70-200mm lens (both the f/4 IS and f/2.8 IS II), and now the 70-300mm f/4-5.6L IS lens. I really like to use this focal length range to isolate interesting light, and also when conditions support telephoto stacking.

My Grand Canyon lens setup typically consists of the Nikon 14-24/2.8G, Canon 24-105/4L IS, and the Canon 70-300mm f/4-5.6L IS lens. When the light is changing fast, and I don't have a particular shot in mind, The 24-105 is left on the camera, and the 70-300 is easy to get to in the bag. In addition to these lenses I will typically carry with me a TS-E 24mm f/3.5L II Tilt Shift.

A brief word about polarizers and grand landscape compositions...if you are shooting with a wide-angle, or ultra-wide, be careful about using the polarizer as it may lead to an uneven sky. I prefer to leave it off the lens when including lots of sky.

Here's to your safe return from Afghanistan! 8)


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## Caps18 (Feb 18, 2012)

You will also want to wake up early to catch the early morning light. Use f/16+, focus 1/3 of the way into the image, and take HDR or panoramic photos using the 40mm in portrait if you want something easy.

I have a grad ND filter (.75), but I only use it when the clouds are too bright and would wash out.

In Antelope Canyon, you have to time it just right and be at the right place at the right time with no people around...


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## archangelrichard (Feb 19, 2012)

You have a lot of advice here, my 2 cents:

Some are good at pointing out their lens advice is based on crop sensor cameras - you said you had a FF and take in the difference

Understand, ZOOM lenses are best at the middle focal lengths and a compromise beyond that - and the wider they are the more difference per "mm" rating. That is why the 17 - 40mm is rated less at 17, all these zooms will be; so for maximum sharpness (if that is your goal) try the 14mm; however if flexibility is your goal try renting a 16 - 35mm before you go and see if it seems worth the difference (in cost, weight, bulk)

Yes you want a tele (and possibly rent a Teleconverter as well) and again zooms give you a lot of choice but remember the best focus is at the middle focal lengths (and zooms on a TC - not good) so possibly a 70 - 200, and a 400 or so (with TC)

The Gigapan is a great idea; it will not take the weight of all lens combinations so check their site and understand: 21 MP times say 3 rows of 5 shots = 315 MP so you need to have say windows 7 plus adobe PS5 plus 315 plus 315 (the "edited" version) plus 315 (current changeable where the edited version may be "UN"changed - to reverse a change) -- in other words about 8 GB ram would be good; if you have less than that you may have to reduce the size of the file to work on it or get more ram or maybe a new computer?

You just can't do things with a 21 MP file you can do with the added sharpness of a 315 MP file (oe larger) so there's a cost; but remember that 315 is 3 times 5 times a three times larger lens (say 3 x 28mm or 85mm - much closer and sharper on the details! and wider at 5 X)

Do realize, that means you are driving not walking to most times you will use it - or make yourself some kind of "cart" to carry it; it is bulky (putting together a two wheeled cart with a camera backpack stored in the middle works well)

Used to live in AZ and would suggest looking further south rather than going north: some of the lesser known attractions include Casa Grande where native tribes built three story (well, short stories) buildings to view the stars and "soccer" type fields, Tuzigoot where the natives found a valley with natural "choke" points for entry so they created dams that they could breach and flood the valley if enemies were seen, Montezuma Historic canyon with the cliff dwellings, and the beauty of Red Rock country (Sedona) near Flagstaff (Yes there are trees in AZ and SNOW covered peaks)

And if you go really south Tucson has "Old Tucson" with the old spanish mission buildings (and out in the desert is where they store old p-lanes for sale - no humidity means very little weather damage)

One of the problems you get from going to the same regular tourist places is all you are doing is taking the same pictures someone else took, (post card pics - so why not just buy a postcard?); go to the lesser known places and take pictures no one has taken


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## DianeK (Feb 19, 2012)

archangelrichard said:


> Used to live in AZ and would suggest looking further south rather than going north: some of the lesser known attractions include Casa Grande where native tribes built three story (well, short stories) buildings to view the stars and "soccer" type fields, Tuzigoot where the natives found a valley with natural "choke" points for entry so they created dams that they could breach and flood the valley if enemies were seen, Montezuma Historic canyon with the cliff dwellings, and the beauty of Red Rock country (Sedona) near Flagstaff (Yes there are trees in AZ and SNOW covered peaks)



Going there myself in March. Curious about Montezuma Historic Canyon. Is this the same as Montezuma Castle National Monument?? That's the only "Montezuma" I can find on my map. Sorry I know I have strayed off the original lens topic.
Diane


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## RC (Feb 19, 2012)

Lots of tourist coming to AZ, we like the revenue 

A few more suggestions for those in the Grand Canyon vicinity:

- Walnut Canyon National Monument - cliff dwellings in side of mountain and steep canyon, cool easy all paved hike, few miles east of Flagstaff
- Wupatki National Monument - high desert Indian dwellings, about 25 miles N of Flagstaff
- Sunset Crater National Monument - Ancient volcanic activity, a few miles N of Flagstaff (you can do Wupatki and Sunset together in the same driving loop)
- Sedona and Oak Creek Canyon - just south of Flagstaff, my favorite route is to take old highway 89 down into the canyon from Flagstaff
- From Sedona, head south west to Jerome an old mining town. Jerome is the most vertical town in the country. Main street zig zags up a mountain.

Don't want to come across as a tourism promotion but, lots of wonderful photography opportunities.

PS, might be cheapest to buy annual NP pass to cover all parks and monuments.


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## Grizzly (Feb 19, 2012)

Hi,

I've been twice to Antelope Canyon and both times I saw many people being rushed through the canyon by heir guides. The first time I ended up with Carrol Big Thump (just by incidence) and we few photographers had all the time we wanted. In fact we were the last ones to leave he canyon. The second time was similar. Maybe I had just luck, or her tours are really that relaxed. Regarding lenses, I mostly used my 16-35 LII for Antelope Canyon as well the Grand Canyon, but I had a crop Camera. 16 mm is just fine for Grand Canyon, for Antelope Canyon it was easy wide enough, I even used the 35 mm range every now and then. The first time in AC was in spring and it was extremely dusty, don't even thik of changing a lens in there. The second time was in late August and it wasn't particularly dusty (of course, it is still desert and all sand around...). The biggest problem in AC are however he crowds that don't have any time at all to wait until you finished a shot.

- Chris


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## Deeohuu (Mar 3, 2012)

Slightly off topic but closely related, the web sites for many of these locations mention that a permit is required for photography that will be or may be used in any commercial way. They include fine art photography in that category. Antelope makes some sense since it is a very specific location but I can't figure out if places like Monument Valley only refer to specific areas within the First Nation jurisdiction or the entire park or if there is a difference. Trying to get more information via email or phone was a nightmare. I just got off the phone with someone from Monumental Valley who seemed to be saying a permit even for personal use was $50!

Does anyone have any insights into these permits? It would be very appreciated.


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## RC (Mar 4, 2012)

Deeohuu said:


> Slightly off topic but closely related, the web sites for many of these locations mention that a permit is required for photography that will be or may be used in any commercial way. They include fine art photography in that category. Antelope makes some sense since it is a very specific location but I can't figure out if places like Monument Valley only refer to specific areas within the First Nation jurisdiction or the entire park or if there is a difference. Trying to get more information via email or phone was a nightmare. I just got off the phone with someone from Monumental Valley who seemed to be saying a permit even for personal use was $50!
> 
> Does anyone have any insights into these permits? It would be very appreciated.



No specific info on permits for Monument Valley. However I was there for 2 days (less than a year ago) taking pictures everywhere. The only fee I paid was a few buck (maybe 10) to drive the loop road. Out on the loop road was about a hundred people (over the course of the loop) also taking photos. Of course all my photos were for personal use and not commercial.

In general there are fees required on Indian land for hiking, camping, and general access. I have taken lots of photos (for personal use) on Indian land and have never heard anything about permits.

Bottom line, I'm confident you will not have any issues taking pictures. If you are doing commercial work, then of course you will need to conform to their policies.


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## Cali_PH (Mar 9, 2012)

Hey, I'll be heading out there around the same time, hitting GC, Antelope Canyon, Monument Valley and some other places. 

Never been to GC before, but have been to Antelope, MV and that area before. I would recommend a tele in general. I found myself using one in Monument Valley a few times actually, because of the restrictions of staying on the roads and how far the mesas sometimes are from where you're shooting from.  I'd also find myself pulling over on the road at times and shooting at something in the distance.

I used Carol Bigthumb's group for Upper Antelope, couldn't have been happier:
http://www.navajoantelopecanyon.com/index.html

If you didn't know, there's Upper and Lower Antelope. Upper is more crowded and is easy to walk through, Lower has some tight areas and ladders/stairs, and because of that is generally less crowded.

I liked Carol's group because my guide was terrific (friendly, joking, offering photographic advice), and he and the other guides I saw from their company made a big effort to get other tourists out of our shots, unlike guides from other groups, many of which seemed bored to just want to get through. I got lucky and my group merged with another group led by Carol's son inside the canyon, so my guide actually took myself and one other 'serious' photographer aside at times and just showed the two of use specific locations and angles to shoot from that the bigger group skipped.

Also, at the time (last November) Carol said if I went to Lower (you just drive up, don't hire a company) and keep my receipt, then took it to Carol's (lot is near Upper Antelope parking lot) and show them the receipt same day, they'd give me a discount on the Upper Antelope tour. I think it was $20. I didn't get to test that , since I went to Upper and Lower on separate days due to circumstances.

Side note: At Lower Antelope, definitely go for the Photography tour. Navajo site says there's a restriction of two hours, so they gave me a badge with a time written on it that was 2 hours away (actually since I was going in at 30 minutes past, the guy gave me 2 1/2 hours). But if you go past that, they just charge you an extra $20 or something per hour, and your on your own without a guide. You'll just get other guides walking past and glancing at your badge. No one commented on mine when I went past the time limit. But, that was the off season, things may be different in May when it's more crowded.

I used my 10-22mm almost exclusively in both canyons (cropped body). I did switch to my 24-105L once, but that was risky with the fine dust floating around in there. This time I'm taking two bodies, so I won't have to switch lenses. Of course, bring a tripod if you can, cable release etc. Bring something for the dust you may get on your lenses, and bring everything with you (water, spare memory cards, batteries etc), you won't be able to go back to your car. Well, in Lower you probably can, but that's valuable time you'll pay for. 

I could ramble on more with advice/recommendations, but I'm getting OT (unless you specifically want more, haha).


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## DianeK (Mar 17, 2012)

Just thought I would add to lens inquiries having just come home from Sedona/Flagstaff/Grand Canyon trip. I have a 60D and found I used my EFS 10-22 way more than my EFS 15-85. And the 70-300L only came out for birds. I thought that my 15-85 would be the most used but it sat in my bag more than the other two. Even with the 10-22, I found I did several portrait-orientation panoramas using anywhere from 5-10 photos for the stitching. Just my $.02.
Diane


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