# Canon EOS 7D Mark II Rumors Surface [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 8, 2012)

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<strong>A new EOS 7D Mark II mention


</strong>A new EOS 7D Mark II is rumored to be announced some time in January, 2013. The camera would take the place of the  7D and 60D.</p>
<p>Specs are minimal, as should be expected. However, it should have a 20+ megapixel sensor and the ability to shoot 10fps. The frame rate is a “targeted spec” for the camera.</p>
<p>I think we’ll see the APS-C market slow down a bit, now that the D600 and EOS 6D are changing the pricing structure for consumer camera bodies.</p>
<p>Source: [<a href="http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_7dmk2.html" target="_blank">NL</a>]</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


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## candyman (Oct 8, 2012)

O no, not a merge
I don't want a flip screen on my 7d successor
10 fps sounds good. What about noise reduction?


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## hmmm (Oct 8, 2012)

The performance of the new sensor: that is the key to whether or not I'll be interested. 

The technology that gets announced in the large-MP FF later this month may give us an idea of what to expect in the new 7D mkII sensor.


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## Don Haines (Oct 8, 2012)

candyman said:


> O no, not a merge
> I don't want a flip screen on my 7d successor
> 10 fps sounds good. What about noise reduction?



How about a tilt-swivel-touchscreen with a wireless interface?


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## x-vision (Oct 8, 2012)

hmmm said:


> The performance of the new sensor: that is the key to whether or not I'll be interested.



+1000

The only thing that would make the 7DII interesting for me would be a low-noise sensor.


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## KT (Oct 8, 2012)

From the sound of it, I'm afraid they put all their eggs in the MP/FPS numbers. I mean, after all the high ISO performance was never a selling point in the original 7D, it was always the 18 MP/8 FPS that sold the 7D for years. I don't think they are about to change that formula now. That means anyone interested in low noise should either consider a 5D Mark III or even the 6D but don't count on the 7D mark II to fill that void.


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## Drizzt321 (Oct 8, 2012)

KT said:


> From the sound of it, I'm afraid they put all their eggs in the MP/FPS numbers. I mean, after all the high ISO performance was never a selling point in the original 7D, it was always the 18 MP/8 FPS that sold the 7D for years. I don't think they are about to change that formula now. That means anyone interested in low noise should either consider a 5D Mark III or even the 6D but don't count on the 7D mark II to fill that void.



To my eyes, it seems they need some kind of 'pro' body that can replace APS-H to some extent for the photographers that need the extra 'reach' the APS-C/H can give while still having pretty good quality image and AF. I doubt it'll be 1D level of weather-sealing/body type, but 5d3 level of weather-sealing? I could see that. And even if they keep the IQ and ISO performance the same or maybe even slight better, these things will probably still fly off the shelves. Especially if they update the AF some.


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## nicku (Oct 8, 2012)

KT said:


> From the sound of it, I'm afraid they put all their eggs in the MP/FPS numbers. I mean, after all the high ISO performance was never a selling point in the original 7D, it was always the 18 MP/8 FPS that sold the 7D for years. I don't think they are about to change that formula now. That means anyone interested in low noise should either consider a 5D Mark III or even the 6D but don't count on the 7D mark II to fill that void.



Unfortunately I must agree with you ... :-\ :-\


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## AprilForever (Oct 8, 2012)

I this doesn't mean: Add 1 7D and a 60D. And a cup of failure, weaken the build, and add a pinch of useless consumer features. Shake well, and serve with a nice side of significant price increase.

What I hope it does mean is:
Improved weather sealing and build.
Improved noise levels.
The bonus fps is acceptable, but hopefully for good, and not for evil.
Improved AF

That would be a recipe I would pay I might for. Sadly, the might Canon is thinking of is likely more mighty than my might... :'( But, that is what God gave us credit cards for...


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## Sitting Elf (Oct 8, 2012)

Put a GPS on all new bodies. Would save a ton of time in LR4 dealing with GFX files.


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## FTb-n (Oct 8, 2012)

Increased MP and FPS means nothing without high ISO noise reduction that can compete with Nikon's best DX body. It would seem to be a marketing mistake if Canon doesn't leap frog over Nikon in IQ as well as feature set.


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## Canon-F1 (Oct 8, 2012)

oh great so the 7D Mk2 will have the 60D autofocus (all 11 cross type of course) a full plastic body, 3" touch and swivel screen, wifi for facebook uploads, GPS, 1/160s sync speed and a 93% viewfinder.

the 20.1 MP sensor will have the decreased DR and noise performance we know from the 650D.

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=9994.0

but it will have a slow hybrid AF.. yipeeehhh.



only one SD card slot, but a popup flash.

and for a mere 1799$ it is yours......


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## Bob Howland (Oct 8, 2012)

x-vision said:


> hmmm said:
> 
> 
> > The performance of the new sensor: that is the key to whether or not I'll be interested.
> ...



+1001


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## ThomasN (Oct 8, 2012)

If the 7D II will have the hybrid AF more or less like the 650D while taking video and better IQ under the ISO 12800 or better jet 25600 with not nesseccery more than 18mp sensor and wireless built-in it will sell like hot bread sonday morning and Canon should be happy. And we know that all that counts !
And if they (Canon) puts in good weather sealing, GPS, veri-angel touch screen and more, maybe the costumers also will be happy. ;D


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## pierceography (Oct 8, 2012)

KT said:


> From the sound of it, I'm afraid they put all their eggs in the MP/FPS numbers. I mean, after all the high ISO performance was never a selling point in the original 7D, it was always the 18 MP/8 FPS that sold the 7D for years. I don't think they are about to change that formula now. That means anyone interested in low noise should either consider a 5D Mark III or even the 6D but don't count on the 7D mark II to fill that void.



While I'd love to see better DR in a new 7D, I must agree with this sentiment as well.

I own both a 5dm3 and the 7D, and the cameras serve very different purposes for me.

And let's face it, given Canon's recent pricing strategy, if they announced a 7D with +2fps, +2MP, 5Dm3 style DR, and even the same AF system it has now, it would likely be upwards of the $1,700 it currently costs.

I'm hoping that if the 7Dm2 replaces the 60D, that will keep it's price point below $2,000. I'd love to see better DR, but if Canon gets too crazy in that regard they risk eroding the sales of the FF lineup.

But I still think this camera is a ways off. AF is still the second best in Canon's line (5Dm3 and 1DX at #1), and the FPS is also #2 (1DX). There's still not a ton of room for improvement that would warrant people such as myself to upgrade while keeping the price low.

My guess is announcement in third quarter of 2013... maybe even later.


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## DB (Oct 8, 2012)

The 10fps is as expected moving from Digic4 to Digic5 processors, that plus a modest bump in resolution and slightly better ISO/Noise/DR would be welcome, as long as we get 2 x memory card slots (1 x CF + 1 x SDXC) and GPS/WiFi as standard (the latter negates the need for an articulated screen). The current AF system is fine. If Canon do that and price it at $2k then I'll sell my 7D and buy a 7D2, in other words; I'd pay another 500 for those upgrades.


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## pierceography (Oct 8, 2012)

DB said:


> If Canon do that and price it at $2k then I'll sell my 7D and buy a 7D2, in other words; I'd pay another 500 for those upgrades.



Agreed. But if the camera is over the $2,000 mark, there had better be some REALLY nice features to justify the price to upgrade. And I'm not talking about GPS, articulating screen, or touch screen. In fact, I'd pay money NOT to have the last two "features" on a prosumer SLR.


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## DB (Oct 8, 2012)

the WFT-E5 for Canon 7D is €699 (that's almost $1,000) where I live, so I'll take WiFi included thanks. And then shoot wireless remote using my Manfrotto tripod + iPhone, with full LiveView and full ISO/Av/Tv control as well as image playback => all from a distance


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## marekjoz (Oct 8, 2012)

I'm afraid it will have a lot of more or less useful features but not much better IQ.
We should expect 2 digics, android & ios support, gps, radio remote flash, touchscreen, built-in flash, 3-6 MP more and 1/4 - 1/2 stop better ISO performance with the same DR. AF better than 5d3, maybe even better than 1dx. It could also be strong in video as 1dx. Looking at similarities between 1dx and 1dc, maybe this time the "C" brother of this new 7d2 could be some high fps video camera (1920p @60, 720p @120)?
Priced at 2499$-2999$ depending on video features.


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## sagittariansrock (Oct 8, 2012)

This is what will get my check book out:
1. Low noise at low ISO, high ISO capable sensor
2. Same or higher frame rate
3. Same or higher MP- but only if point 1 is satisfied
4. Two CF card slots
5. Same or better AF (5DIII level?)
6. Same or better build quality
This is not too much to ask, and given the rumors of a brand new sensor and the 46MP FF, I am guessing they are more than expected.
Besides, it is Canon's fault that I am asking for all this to upgrade- it is they who built the awesome 7D!
I am guessing Canon will also include Wi-fi, maybe even GPS, and some other doo-dads in order to lure unsure buyers, curb perpetual whiners (why didn't they add this if they have it in 6D), and increase the MSRP- but I don't care about those.


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## marekjoz (Oct 8, 2012)

sagittariansrock said:


> This is what will get my check book out:
> 1. Low noise at low ISO, high ISO capable sensor



It will be still a low-pro sport/wild camera where shutter speed fights against noise at high iso setting with rather not too fast lens on it. Low noise low iso is not so important as high iso capable sensor.



sagittariansrock said:


> 2. Same or higher frame rate
> 3. Same or higher MP- but only if point 1 is satisfied



OK



sagittariansrock said:


> 4. Two CF card slots



Not neccesserely.



sagittariansrock said:


> 5. Same or better AF (5DIII level?)
> 6. Same or better build quality



Agree.



sagittariansrock said:


> This is not too much to ask, and given the rumors of a brand new sensor and the 46MP FF, I am guessing they are more than expected.
> Besides, it is Canon's fault that I am asking for all this to upgrade- it is they who built the awesome 7D!
> I am guessing Canon will also include Wi-fi, maybe even GPS, and some other doo-dads in order to lure unsure buyers, curb perpetual whiners (why didn't they add this if they have it in 6D), and increase the MSRP- but I don't care about those.



... and even more not so important stuff included.

I also think it will have the new AF system making benefit from new lenses and even newer ones like 300 f/4 L IS Mk2 and hopefuly other new not expensive teles.


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## distant.star (Oct 8, 2012)

Canon Rumors said:


> I think we’ll see the APS-C market slow down a bit, now that the D600 and EOS 6D are changing the pricing structure for consumer camera bodies.



This is a puzzling thought. It suggests a consumer who wants to try a DSLR first buys into a Rebel under $1K, and then when he wants to be better, he has two choices:

1. Get a 7D2 at over $2K. There is nothing (xxD) in between, and the 7D2 may be all wrong for him given its intended purposes. 

2. Go FF with a 6D at over $2K.

I suppose a third option is a 7D2 AND a FF camera. 

Seems to me that leaves a HUGE soft spot between $1K and $2K.

Surely something else is going on.


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## pwp (Oct 8, 2012)

What I'm reading here is either total speculation or wish-list mutterings. The reality is we have virtually no idea what Canon is likely to dish up, save that it will be an improvement over the 7D.

So I'll delve into the wish-list zone too with a hope that the 7DII ships with features that recognise the hole left by the discontinued APS-H 1D4. Action shooters appreciate the extra reach be it x1.3 or x1.6, and in a FF world may be faced with the expensive proposition of new, longer lenses to compensate. It shouldn't be too hard to deliver 1D4 levels of iso performance from an 18Mp sensor. 

Despite what ignorant pictures of doom and negativity the chronic knockers and trolls try to paint here at CR, what I see is Canon releasing and developing some pretty extraordinary cameras and lenses, right through from P&S to DSLR to the newer Cinema range. I'm loving it.

-PW


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## AG (Oct 8, 2012)

Canon-F1 said:


> oh great so the 7D Mk2 will have the 60D autofocus (all 11 cross type of course) a full plastic body, 3" touch and swivel screen, wifi for facebook uploads, GPS, 1/160s sync speed and a 93% viewfinder.
> 
> the 20.1 MP sensor will have the decreased DR and noise performance we know from the 650D.
> 
> ...



Either that or they will just stick a crop sensor into the 6D body.


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## verysimplejason (Oct 9, 2012)

candyman said:


> O no, not a merge
> I don't want a flip screen on my 7d successor
> 10 fps sounds good. What about noise reduction?



Flip screen would be nice if they can make the setup all weather-proof. NR would be nice but DR would be nicer.


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## verysimplejason (Oct 9, 2012)

pierceography said:


> DB said:
> 
> 
> > If Canon do that and price it at $2k then I'll sell my 7D and buy a 7D2, in other words; I'd pay another 500 for those upgrades.
> ...



Why do you hate an articulating screen? That's one thing I can't understand. The articulating screen increases your creativity if you know how to use it. As long as canon can maintain the durability and weather proofing of the camera, articulating screen is great. At least it's there when you need it.


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## DB (Oct 9, 2012)

verysimplejason said:


> pierceography said:
> 
> 
> > DB said:
> ...



Whatever about an articulated screen enabling more creativity, wireless liveview remote will be even more creative - you can place the DSLR on the ground (in long grass) where the tilty-swively-flippy screen is useless, have the lens protrude (e.g. bird or wildlife shots) and still have full control + instant playback of images + not be near the camera to scare off subjects.

Whatever you can do with a vari-angle screen you can do more with a portable screen that fits in your pocket. Articulated screens were a fad - a short-lived fad at that too (just a couple of rebels + 60D)


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## DB (Oct 9, 2012)

marekjoz said:


> I'm afraid it will have a lot of more or less useful features but not much better IQ.
> We should expect 2 digics, android & ios support, gps, radio remote flash, touchscreen, built-in flash, 3-6 MP more and 1/4 - 1/2 stop better ISO performance with the same DR. AF better than 5d3, maybe even better than 1dx. It could also be strong in video as 1dx. Looking at similarities between 1dx and 1dc, maybe this time the "C" brother of this new 7d2 could be some high fps video camera (1920p @60, 720p @120)?
> Priced at 2499$-2999$ depending on video features.



If the above existed for $2,500, it would sell. No question about it, as a 2nd body for Pro/Enthusiasts and as a video DSLR for those who want 1920x1080x60 with All-I


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## ag25 (Oct 9, 2012)

I've been waiting to upgrade from my T1i, and was hoping to wait for a 60D successor. I found the T1i simply too small, especially after acquiring my telephoto lens.

This should be interesting, because if they merge the two in the upwards direction there will be a sizeable gap between the T4i-series models.

Hopefully the new sensor beings some improvements.


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## that1guyy (Oct 9, 2012)

ag25 said:


> I've been waiting to upgrade from my T1i, and was hoping to wait for a 60D successor. I found the T1i simply too small, especially after acquiring my telephoto lens.
> 
> This should be interesting, because if they merge the two in the upwards direction there will be a sizeable gap between the T4i-series models.
> 
> Hopefully the new sensor beings some improvements.



Hah. Exactly like me. I am seriously wanting to upgrade my T1i and a 70D would definitely hit the spot. 6fps,
better iso performance, better dynamic range, and better video features (1080p 60p, higher bit rate, All-I, etc??) would go a long way. 

Also, to the guy saying a tilt screen was a fad. Well, for video users that is a must. I would not buy a DSLR without it. Please be aware of uses other than your own before posting next time.


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## FTb-n (Oct 9, 2012)

I'm holding out hope for better IQ. 

There's no point in introducing a 7DII unless Canon expects it to continue to be the entry-level pro sports/wildlife body of choice for a few years to come. It makes no sense to up the MP and frame rate without first improving IQ and high ISO performance.

Higher MP and FPS sound great as a marketing tool. Sure, a frame rate of 10 fps has some benefits. But for most sporting events, shotgun shooting in bursts is no substitute for timing that first shot.

The 7D is marketed as a sports body for those not ready for the 1D-X and the necessarily longer glass required to achieve the same field of view. Both bodies share the same 18 megapixels. I don't think the target audience for the 7DII will be wowed by higher MP and FPS alone – as exemplified in this thread.

Further, the 7D is one way to get serious amateurs and would-be pros hooked on Canon and invested in more L-glass. Their next path upward is the 5DIII or 1D-X. I would think Canon wants to continue this progression path.

In short, Canon must top the Nikon D7000 in every aspect – especially IQ and ISO performance. Why let Nikon continue to own the best high ISO performance APS-C body? As budding low-light sports photographers look to the D7000, Canon loses out on their progression strategy to sell more 5D's and 1D's.

For me, I'd be happy if the 7DII only had two improvements:

1. Best in class high ISO noise reduction
2. Locking mode dial (I hate it when I bump out of M to Bulb)

(As an owner of the 60D and a 7D, I would enjoy the addition of an articulated screen on a 7DII. I have been hooked on one ever since my G3. A don't think the articulated screen is a fad as suggested, but I do doubt that a body aimed at pros or semi-pros will have one simply do to the risk of breaking the thing when shooting under pressure.)


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## al2 (Oct 9, 2012)

verysimplejason said:


> pierceography said:
> 
> 
> > DB said:
> ...



For me the articulated screen presents two major problems. First, a Canon style articulated screen means that many of the buttons on the left side of the screen will have to disappear. The articulated screen uses a lot of area on the back of the camera. The second is the compromised weatherproofing. Currently, the the pop-up flash is the main weatherproofing weakness. I can work around that by sealing the flash with electricans tape when I'm going out
in the weather. Yes, Canon can try to seal moving parts, but how long will they stay sealed?


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## DB (Oct 9, 2012)

that1guyy said:


> ag25 said:
> 
> 
> > I've been waiting to upgrade from my T1i, and was hoping to wait for a 60D successor. I found the T1i simply too small, especially after acquiring my telephoto lens.
> ...



I shoot a lot of video - typically 2 x dslr multicam with zoom h4n + lavalier mics etc. and you have either a micro-USB slot (for laptop tethering) or a mini-hdmi out to ext AV screen -> clearly you don't know what those flaps on the side of your camera are for.

Proof of the pudding is in the eating -> last canon DSLR to have a tilt screen was the 650D, the 5D3/1DX/6D did not get them, nor will a 7D2 as swivel screen are for hobbyists with Rebel bodies, and are less useful than an external wireless monitor (thanks to the intro of WiFi).

Canon have both segments covered - serious videographer will have HDMI-out, the amateur will have their smartphone, iPad or MP4 player which is way more flexible than an articulated screen.

Tech has moved on (WiFi is the new anywhere screen), so should you. Time will tell, and I'm betting that I'll be proved right and you will be proved wrong....and I will remind you that day that the 7D2 is eventually announced


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## Wrathwilde (Oct 9, 2012)

Ok, I'll play. Here are the features/specs I'd be willing to bet on.

Single Processor, Digic 5+ (dual chip is just an added expense, a single 5+ is more than capable)
Single CF card slot (2nd slot = added expense, and pros that use the 7D as a 2nd camera will want compatible cards)

That's it, the two specs I'm willing to bet on. 

What I'd like in a 7D Mark II...

New sensor tech, still @ 18mp, better ISO performance (low and high)
The same AF sensor and metering as the 5D3
No pop up flash, but a built in lowlight autofocus assist, and built in radio trigger and control for new Canon Flashes.
Locking Dial.

That's it, that's what would get me to upgrade from a 7D to a 7D2. An AF sensor that covers almost the entire frame when used with Canon EF lenses would be huge, when the camera senses an EF-S lens it could disable the outer points. 

I don't want GPS. WiFi, I can take or leave. I really don't care about video, I absolutely don't want a swivel or touch screen.


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## Drizzt321 (Oct 9, 2012)

that1guyy said:


> ag25 said:
> 
> 
> > I've been waiting to upgrade from my T1i, and was hoping to wait for a 60D successor. I found the T1i simply too small, especially after acquiring my telephoto lens.
> ...



Agreed, even if it's still $1700 there's something of a gap in the $1000-1200 range for an XXD body. 

As for the articulated screen...this is going to sound a bit snarky, but many (most?) of us use DSLR's as STILLS cameras. Not video cameras. I understand how a articulated screen would be great for video use, but I'd think you'd really want to get one of those external LCD's you which offer a bigger view of what you're shooting.


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## DB (Oct 9, 2012)

al2 said:


> verysimplejason said:
> 
> 
> > pierceography said:
> ...



+1 Canon will not degrade the 7D model with a tilt screen that compromises quality (weather-sealing) and results in loss of external buttons, especially when you can have any screen you like in your hand that is no longer physically attached to the camera body thanks to WiFi.


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## pierceography (Oct 9, 2012)

al2 said:


> verysimplejason said:
> 
> 
> > pierceography said:
> ...



Definitely agree with those two points. And there's a third: build quality. Right now, the 7D is on par with the build quality of a pro level camera. If you add an articulating screen, you're basically running the life span of the camera into the ground. Even if you're incredibly careful with your equipment, your chances of damaging the camera increase exponentially when you start messing with retractable elements. The popup flash on my 7D already fails to pop up 3/4 of the time. So no thanks to moveable LCD.

And as for the screen increasing your creativity, well... I guess you'll just have to get dirty. I've come back from plenty of shoots where my clothes were completely filthy from being on my stomach getting a shot. If you're not willing to get dirty to get a shot, then it must not have been that good to begin with.


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## rotaholic (Oct 9, 2012)

So does this mean no 70D? I have the money here burning a hole in my pocket, guess I will just go and get the 650d then. I had my heart set on a 70D :'(


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## FTb-n (Oct 9, 2012)

Gotta keep the two processors. It's the secret to the focusing performance and may be the key to increased high ISO performance.

As for the articulating screen, I don't understand the "it's for hobbyist" attack. Even the old Canon F-1 offered additional viewfinders for alternative viewing angles. It has function and value.

However, the articulating screen does decrease the durability of the body. Fast action shooting, maybe with multiple bodies, increases the risk of damage to the screen when it's out. I doubt that any "pro-level" Canon body will have the articulating screen for fear that they will see more of them returned for service and deflate the durability reputation. Still, I'd welcome the articulating screen on the 7DII.


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## SDPhotopro (Oct 9, 2012)

I have a 5DMkIII but can't beat my 7D for night sports and action. Many friends I know like me would jump at a 7D MkII with better noise control at high ISO. The 1.6 factor makes our 70-200 a f2.8 112-320 super zoom and Sigma 120-300 a powerful and fast f2.8 192-480 . Dark high school stadiums, gyms, theaters, and other outdoor action benefit from crop for fast zoom, high iso. Quiet mode from 5DmkIII is great, hope that they include it in the 7DMkII and keep the CF card.


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## rpt (Oct 9, 2012)

x-vision said:


> hmmm said:
> 
> 
> > The performance of the new sensor: that is the key to whether or not I'll be interested.
> ...


+1000
That is the reason I got the 5D3 and not the 7D...


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 9, 2012)

FTb-n said:


> Gotta keep the two processors. It's the secret to the focusing performance...


Really? How do the dual Digic 4 processors in the 7D contribute to focusing performance? Or is the secret that Canon is lying when they state, "_The EOS 7D has a 19-point autofocus system, all of which are cross-type points, that includes a *separate AF processor* to help to provide fast, reliable and accurate autofocus for photographers in all shooting situations._"


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## RC (Oct 9, 2012)

Canon Rumors said:


> ...The camera would take the place of the 7D and 60D....



Hmmm, blending the 7D with the 60D, I might just be glad I kept my 7D. We'll see.

Canon, can I upgrade the sensor in my 7D please?


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## Richard8971 (Oct 9, 2012)

Canon Rumors said:


> The camera would take the place of the 7D and 60D



Hmmm, isn't that what I have been saying all along? Hard to believe that so many would think that the two lines would NOT have been joined. Just about everything that Canon has been doing over the past couple of years, (I.E. The downgrade of the 60D and the upgrade of the Rebel T4i...) has been leading up to this. 

I see the mirrorless EOS taking the place of the XXXXD line.

...the Rebel will take the place of the XXD line (in a way)

...and the 7D2 will replace both the XXD line and XD line...

I bet Canon will push more FF sensor bodies over the crop sensors, it's a logical step forward, but what do I know?

Oh well, this IS just a rumor, right? 

D


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## Chosenbydestiny (Oct 9, 2012)

"taking the place of" I can believe, as they have obviously bumped the rebel line up a bit with better AF (although someday I'd like to see custom white balance through K) but "blending", is not even suggested in the rumor. The 7D has its target audience like all the cameras in the lineup, but not by any means limited to what anyone can actually afford. Some people need crop bodies to decrease the distance between them and their subject without physically having to. Even if they can afford better. As for people who gripe about the flippy screens, grow up. It's nit picking, seriously. The sensor should be our biggest concern now, especially with the old 7D sensor digging it's own grave next to fossils at the mercy of Nikon's shovel. This is a Canon forum, we should be rooting for Canon to win with a new sensor in the next generation of bodies, not this petty flippy screen crap.


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## FTb-n (Oct 9, 2012)

Neuro, it took me a while to figure out your point of contention. I have always understood that "separate AF processor" to be the second Digic 4. This view was reinforced by the fact that the 1D-X has dual Digic 5+ processors plus "An all-new, 61-Point High-Density Reticular AF and 100,000-pixel RGB Metering Sensor that uses a dedicated DIGIC 4 Image Processor". With respect to the 7D, that dedicated AF processor is never named, so it seemed logical that it was the second Digic 4.

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_1d_x

But, I stand corrected. It does appear that the 7D has a third processor (in addition to the two Digic 4's) dedicated to auto-focus. (I now understand it has a fourth for A/D conversion.)

It's curious that the 1D-X uses two Digic 5+ and one Digic 4 to achieve it's phenomenal performance. It's also curious that the 5DIII has a single Digic 5+. I can't find documentation suggesting an additional processor in the 5DIII dedicated to focus. Given that the 5DIII doesn't offer the burst capability of the 7D and, according some users on this forum, the 5DIII also doesn't match the 7D for sports shooting*, it would seem that a single Digic 5+ won't be enough for the 7DII to top the 7D in IQ, burst mode, and focus tracking. Hence, my guess is that two processors will be needed. Maybe not dual Digic 5+, maybe a single Digic 5+ and the same, unnamed processor that the 7D uses for focusing. Or, maybe a Digic 5+ and a Digic 4 for focusing like with the 1D-X.

Hey, if Canon can improve on the 7D in all areas with a single powerhouse chip, then I'm wrong. But, I don't expect them to do so. My guess is that Canon will continue to dedicate a chip (maybe not a Digic) to focusing. Parallel processing is easier with multiple chips.

*I understand "sports shooting" to mean focus tracking, since this is often more valuable than burst mode. But, I concede, that "complaints" about the 5DIII for sports could be limited to its slower FPS.


----------



## candyman (Oct 9, 2012)

distant.star said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > I think we’ll see the APS-C market slow down a bit, now that the D600 and EOS 6D are changing the pricing structure for consumer camera bodies.
> ...


 
For now, the rumors states a merge between 60D and 7D -> 7D MK II. And, it well may be $2K or over $2K
But Canon may release in a later stadium a 9D positioned below the 7D MKII (and above the xxxD). We had a surprise with 6D as well filling a gap
It looks like Canon is doing a shuffle on their Camera-line namingconvention/models

I just hope the 7D MK II will be a real improvement over the 7D. I like to stick to it next to my 5D MK III


----------



## M.ST (Oct 9, 2012)

Message to the Canon development. BUT A CF-CARD-SLOT IN IT.


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## candyman (Oct 9, 2012)

M.ST said:


> Message to the Canon development. BUT A CF-CARD-SLOT IN IT.


 
I hope your new prototype is not a 7D MK II with only a SD slot


----------



## maxxevv (Oct 9, 2012)

So what should we be expecting here then ? 

A ~28Mp camera with an APS-H sensor (with crop mode compatibility ? ) ? Or are we expecting more of the same with an APS-C sensor ?


----------



## candyman (Oct 9, 2012)

maxxevv said:


> So what should we be expecting here then ?
> 
> A ~28Mp camera with an APS-H sensor (with crop mode compatibility ? ) ? Or are we expecting more of the same with an APS-C sensor ?


 
Well, Canon could surprise us. Merge 60D and 7D to a 7D MKII APS-H
And, later release a 9D as top of the APS-C (but in now way competition to the 7D MKII)
Looks to me that with rumors, anything is possible.


----------



## sagittariansrock (Oct 9, 2012)

FTb-n said:


> Neuro, it took me a while to figure out your point of contention. I have always understood that "separate AF processor" to be the second Digic 4. This view was reinforced by the fact that the 1D-X has dual Digic 5+ processors plus "An all-new, 61-Point High-Density Reticular AF and 100,000-pixel RGB Metering Sensor that uses a dedicated DIGIC 4 Image Processor". With respect to the 7D, that dedicated AF processor is never named, so it seemed logical that it was the second Digic 4.
> 
> http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_1d_x
> 
> ...



AFAIK, the two Digic 4 processors were necessary to convert 18MP data @ 8fps. However, if you consider the fact that the 1DsIII needed 2 Digic IIIs for 21.1MP @ 5fps but the 5DMIII needs only 1 Digic 5+ for 22.3MP @ 6 fps that shows how a more advanced processor may eschew the need for 2 chips. 
Since both the MP count and fps of the potential 7DII is up in the air, it is impossible to predict if one 5+ will be sufficient or not, and then again there might well be a Digic 6 by that time.


----------



## AG (Oct 9, 2012)

candyman said:


> maxxevv said:
> 
> 
> > So what should we be expecting here then ?
> ...



APS-H is dead let it go 

If anything they will release the 7D2 and a slightly modified (weaker) version with a flip out screen and call it the 70D both with ASP-C sensors. 
I cant see an 8D, 9D, 4D or 3D coming out any time soon. But a 2D maybe (Double the MP? , probably not though) and the 1D-S like rumoured.


----------



## Ellen Schmidtee (Oct 9, 2012)

KT said:


> From the sound of it, I'm afraid they put all their eggs in the MP/FPS numbers. I mean, after all the high ISO performance was never a selling point in the original 7D, it was always the 18 MP/8 FPS that sold the 7D for years. I don't think they are about to change that formula now. That means anyone interested in low noise should either consider a 5D Mark III or even the 6D but don't count on the 7D mark II to fill that void.



7D customers are willing to trade ISO for MP & FPS, but customers who buy Rebels get the same ISO performance, lower FPS, and aren't as impressed by MP anymore.

Canon may, of course, make another sensor for the rebels. I guess it makes economic sense to manufacture less types of sensors, and put older sensors in bottom line cameras until it's replaced, but I also think Canon should start investing in sensors that have better DR, color reproduction, etc, rather than more MP.

I'm sure customers who bought 1100D print >A4 a lot, crop like crazy to squeeze the most of their super telephotos, and are holding their breath for that 18MP sensor to trickle down into the xxxxD series. NOT.


----------



## jondave (Oct 9, 2012)

sagittariansrock said:


> This is what will get my check book out:
> 1. Low noise at low ISO, high ISO capable sensor
> 2. Same or higher frame rate
> 3. Same or higher MP- but only if point 1 is satisfied
> ...



Buy a 5D3 then.

I don't understand why a lot of people here think Canon owes us to sell a body that has all these wonderful features and would cost us peanuts.

I can't begin to imagine if people like these were running Canon's product development and marketing, Canon would only be selling 2 DSLR bodies - 1 costing ~$5k, the other ~$1.8k. These will have killer features nobody else can match for the price and sell like pancakes for a year. After which Canon goes bankrupt.


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## DB (Oct 9, 2012)

rotaholic said:


> So does this mean no 70D? I have the money here burning a hole in my pocket, guess I will just go and get the 650d then. I had my heart set on a 70D :'(



Every year Canon launches a new Rebel body, so 2013 we can expect a 700D. Could Canon conceivably launch a 70D + a 700D at the same time or even in the same year? Maybe they could, but I sincerely doubt it. It would be like BMW launching a new 5-series as well as a new model the 50-series in the same year! Even the marketers are not that dumb 

edit: it would be like Coca-Cola changing Coke Zero, and then launching Coke Hero (a new product) around the same time


----------



## eddiemrg (Oct 9, 2012)

any rumors about bundle lenses?
thanks!


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## marekjoz (Oct 9, 2012)

DB said:


> *Every year* Canon launches a *new Rebel body*, so 2013 we can expect a 700D. Could Canon conceivably launch a *70D + a 700D* at the same time or *even in the same year*? Maybe they could, but *I sincerely doubt it*. It would be like BMW launching a new 5-series as well as a new model the 50-series in the same year! *Even the marketers are not that dumb *
> 
> edit: it would be like Coca-Cola changing Coke Zero, and then launching Coke Hero (a new product) around the same time



You seem to disagree with yourself.

If Canon launches new Rebel every year
AND
sometimes (but not every year) Canon launches a higher level body 
THEN
in the year when the higher body is launched there is also launched a new Rebel
SO 
it's in contradiction to your doubt
THAT
they shouldn't be launched in the same year

SO
not Rebel every year
OR
no higher level body at all
OR
there must be some years (higher body launches), when they are launched in the same year

Prooved


----------



## Marine03 (Oct 9, 2012)

I say bring on dual SD slots, sure top speed may not be "as Fast" but I can but 100 gig worth of cars for half the price of 1 64 gig CF.... and they take up less space, which mean Canon can use that space for processors or what ever they heck they want to make the camera lighter or what ever..

Hearing people complaining about lack of CF is almost as bad as people complaining that the ancient 30pin connect went bye bye on the Iphone.


----------



## wookiee2cu (Oct 9, 2012)

sagittariansrock said:


> This is what will get my check book out:
> 1. Low noise at low ISO, high ISO capable sensor
> 2. Same or higher frame rate
> 3. Same or higher MP- but only if point 1 is satisfied
> ...



It's not going to get the same or better AF than the 5DMIII, that AF system is reserved for the 5D line and the 1DX (1DX has AF features the 5D MIII doesn't). The AF is what is separating the segments and Canon isn't going to shoot themselves in the foot by putting that AF in the 7D MII. The 6D entry full frame is only getting 11 AF pts, I could see the 7D MII getting more than that because the 7D MII will be marketed for its action shooting where the 6D is marketed for full frame... no way it's getting the 61 AF pts though.


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## sagittariansrock (Oct 9, 2012)

jondave said:


> sagittariansrock said:
> 
> 
> > This is what will get my check book out:
> ...





You clearly misread, misinterpreted or misunderstood. I am perfectly happy with my 7D and that is why only if there is a marked improvement in ISO capabilities would I consider upgrading. Also, it is important that they don't mess up things that are already very good in the 7D, like the AF, fps, MP and build quality. Besides, there was no comment about price. The 7DII will obviously be more expensive that the 7D. Only companies like Apple who already overprice their stuff can afford to bring out upgrades with the same price.
You should not make ignorant comments about buying a 5DIII either. You should look at the specs of the 5DIII and ask yourself if all the above points are met by that camera. If I wanted it, I wouldn't be waiting for your advice.
I understand that there is lot of angry people in the forum against Canon and their marketing policies, but I am not one of them, and I won't take it if someone makes personal comments knowing little and understanding even less.

@wookiee2cu: When I say "same or better AF", I mean I am happy with the current level of AF in the 7D, although I won't be sad if they decide to make it even better. 5DIII was just a reference for "better". But you might know more about Canon's policies about AF technology than I do...


----------



## jondave (Oct 9, 2012)

sagittariansrock said:


> You clearly misread, misinterpreted or misunderstood.



Except for the faster fps, what you wanted looked like a 5D3. (And dual CF on a prosumer body? No way.) Happy for you to prove me wrong - so what specs and price do you want the 7D2 to have?


----------



## c.d.embrey (Oct 9, 2012)

If 18.1MP is enough for the $6,799.00 EOS 1D X, why would a 7D2 need more megapixels then it has now (18.0MP) ???

The $5,999.95 Nikon D4 is 16.2MP. Today, it looks like 16-18 megapixel is the "sweet spot" for pro cameras.

If they made a 70D, that was more like a 40D than a 60D, I'd be interested  A $2,000.00 plus 7D2 wouldn't interest me at all  YMMV.


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## Famateur (Oct 10, 2012)

As an amateur/hobbyist/enthusiast, I'm disappointed with this rumor. I've been waiting, saving and hoping for a 70D to be announced that would fit my needs and fill the price gap between T4i and 7D.

If the rumor is true, then here's my best guess at what Canon is up to:


Mirrorless takes the role of entry-level crop sensor body.
Rebel becomes the new mid-level/enthusiast crop sensor body.
7D (and 7DII) remains the flagship crop sensor body with pro features and build quality.

If this is the case, I guess I either settle for the T4i (meh) or buy the 60D (3-years old!). The 7DI(I) is just too far beyond my tight budget.

All I really would like is a 60D with an improved sensor that will be relevant for another three years, particularly high-ISO noise performance. Faster, more advanced auto-focus would be a plus, especially if it could be fast in live view.

Okay...

I know the subject of the articulating screen has been beaten to death in this thread. Allow me to beat on it a little more, postmortem. For me, it's a must-have (the second reason, behind budget, that I'm not saving up for the 7D). Here's why:

I understand the reason a pro would be concerned about durability and weather sealing. That's probably why it's not in the 7D, 5DIII or 1DX. For someone who mostly takes pictures of kids and pets, however, it's indispensable. Getting down to their level is often the difference between a nice snapshot and a good photograph.

For those who think the shot must not be important if you're not willing to get dirty to take it, okay -- maybe in a literal sense, but it's often impractical. For someone like me, why would I want to get dirty (or wet, or snowy) all the time if I can just tilt the screen and hold the camera low? If I'm at a family wedding, I'd rather do that than lay down on the floor/ground/wet-beach-sand in my tux/suit to get a good photo.

When it comes to kids, they move around far too much for it to be practical to be constantly getting up and down to get a shot as they play or ride by on their bikes. This is where an articulating screen shines. I've enjoyed it on my A80, G12 and would like it on my next DSLR.

If WiFi is the solution, I'm having a hard time understanding how holding a smartphone or external screen in one hand and a camera in the other is anything but awkward and clumsy. I can just see it now: 

A priceless moment is unexpectedly unfolding, and I want to get a low-angle shot. Quick! Get my smartphone, unlock it, choose the right app, turn on the camera, make sure it connects to the phone, choose the right camera settings, aim the phone toward my face with one hand and the camera toward my subject in the other, compose and take the picture....if have my phone close by...and charged...and no one calls during the shot...and I don't need my other hand to zoom...the moment hasn't passed...forever. 

OR

Turn on the camera, choose my settings, flip/swivel the screen, compose and shoot. 

Maybe I'm missing something...

Anyway, bummer. I was really hoping for a 70D. I guess I should have seen it coming: 50D loses some class and becomes 60D; T3i gains some whistles and bells to become the T4i, closer to 60D (and closer in price); 60D disappears and is replaced by T5i?

So what fills the price gap between the T4i and 7D? Does the xxxD series continue to get boosts in quality/features/price so that it shifts into that middle tier, and mirrorless covers the price slots below?

As a loyal Canon fan, I'm starting to feel like I'm dangling. Maybe if there were enough people like me to make enough of a market...

Alas, it's starting to look unlikely.


----------



## sagittariansrock (Oct 10, 2012)

@jondave:

Bottom line is I am not at all itching for a 7DII. The only complaint I have with the 7D is the graininess above ISO 1600. You'd notice for all the rest, I say "same or better"- meaning the current version is fine with me as long as they don't backpedal (Recall the body style change from 50D to 60D).
You might be right about the dual CF cards being a Pro-body thing. I'd still buy the 7DII if it has just one card- given the ISO capabilities are better. The "brand new sensor technology" sort of promises that.


----------



## mucher (Oct 10, 2012)

What Canon really need to do is put out a 4x3 APS-C 7D with 24mp, utilizing 1DX grade accuracy focus system and 1DX grade image quality. The current 7D's 3 x 2 image ratio is a really pain in the axx to use sometimes.


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## hmmm (Oct 10, 2012)

No 70D? Who knows? don't lose heart yet -- it's just a CR1.


----------



## that1guyy (Oct 10, 2012)

DB said:


> that1guyy said:
> 
> 
> > ag25 said:
> ...



You seemed to have taken my comment a bit personally. Take a deep breath and calm the hell down. It's a camera. 

Secondly, obviously if I was shooting something I was getting paid for, I would use an external monitor something like the Zacuto Z-finder pro for better color reproduction and accurate focusing; I know what hdmi inputs are. Don't insult my intelligence. 

But not everything people shoot is a paid project. I like going out and shooting random experimental videos for fun. A tilt screen would be awesome. I like recording myself. A tilt screen again would work. You understand camcorders have those as well? It's not a gimmick. It's a feature. Yes, built in wifi would be awesome. I could even use a smartphone as a monitor. Who knows, maybe that will happen. 


All the Sony DSLRs and recently the GH3 has a tilt screen. Those cameras, while being excellent for stills, realize the video market exists and is growing and cater to them as well. Canon has made no changes to their video features in the past three years. I'd say that is Canon being ignorant as usual. If Canon introduces another camera with a tilt screen, I'll be the one laughing. If they don't, Canon is continues to be ignorant.


----------



## AG (Oct 10, 2012)

DB said:


> Canon have both segments covered - serious videographer will have HDMI-out, the amateur will have their smartphone, iPad or MP4 player which is way more flexible than an articulated screen.



Actually the Professional will have HD-SDI 3G, the Semi Pro will have HDMI and the Amateur will use the standard screen on camera.

Hate to burst your bubble but a DSLR is not a "Pro Grade" video camera. 
If it was it would have inputs and outputs like those on a C300 for example.

Thats why we pay big money for Professional Cameras.


----------



## Famateur (Oct 10, 2012)

hmmm said:


> No 70D? Who knows? don't lose heart yet -- it's just a CR1.



Thanks -- I needed to hear that!!


----------



## jondave (Oct 10, 2012)

mucher said:


> What Canon really need to do is put out a 4x3 APS-C 7D with 24mp, utilizing 1DX grade accuracy focus system and 1DX grade image quality. The current 7D's 3 x 2 image ratio is a really pain in the axx to use sometimes.



And how much do you intend paying for that? ~$2k? Good luck.


----------



## jondave (Oct 10, 2012)

that1guyy said:


> All the Sony DSLRs and recently the GH3 has a tilt screen. Those cameras, while being excellent for stills, realize the video market exists and is growing and cater to them as well. Canon has made no changes to their video features in the past three years. I'd say that is Canon being ignorant as usual. If Canon introduces another camera with a tilt screen, I'll be the one laughing. If they don't, Canon is continues to be ignorant.



And so what if Sony has it? It doesn't mean Canon should have it. Not now at least, 'cause I haven't heard any Canon users migrating to Sony because of this feature. Canon being ignorant? Of course not. Do you really think you know something Canon doesn't? They won't give it to you because you wouldn't switch anyway. And when the time comes that Canon introduces another camera with a tilt screen, they'll be the one laughing - not you - because you'll be buying that camera.

It's just silly how a lot of people here just look at the small picture and say something in the likes of "I want a 7D2 with 1Dx + C300 features for ~$2k". C'mon, Canon is selling a million different cameras and each one needs to have its own feature set and not cannibalize sales from each other. 

You want a body with all the bells and whistles? There's one out there, but you probably can't afford it. Otherwise you wouldn't be complaining here. Or you would've switched already.

Fact is, most people complaining here about Canon wouldn't switch anyway, because there's no better alternative. And Canon knows that. They won't give you all the features you want, but just the ones enough to make you spend more money upgrading and stop you from switching.

Canon ignorant? It's the opposite actually. It's why they keep making money.


----------



## AG (Oct 10, 2012)

jondave said:


> You want a body with all the bells and whistles? There's one out there, but you probably can't afford it. Otherwise you wouldn't be complaining here. Or you would've switched already.



Well said.


----------



## Don Haines (Oct 10, 2012)

Just a couple of comments to make here....

To those who think that the natural progression is from APS-C to full frame, not everyone wishes to go full frame. Some of us like the extra reach of APS-C. Talk to birders, astronomers, and wildlife photographers about that... Please don't assume that full frame is the way for everyone to go, because for some it is not.

To those lamenting the inclusion of video on cameras.... For some of us it is a great feature. Take your 60D, mount it to your telescope, (try getting a T-mount for a camcorder), put it into the 640x400 60FPS cropped mode, and you have a 60 frame per second video of a select block of 640x400 pixels (not the entire sensor downsampled but just a portion of the sensor). Let the telescope mount track for a few minutes, and you have several thousand frames of your target that you can run through an image stacker and come up with a picture that is WAY!!! better than any individual frame. This is how we get those nice pictures of Saturn and Jupiter. You can even use the video functions to shoot video of Fluffy the cat 

To those lamenting tilt-swivel screens. I do not like lying in the wet grass or snow when my camera is hanging off the bottom of my telescope. I don't like lying in the swamp when I am trying to get low angle pictures of some amphibian... get the picture? I did because the tilt swivel screen let me stay where I could be comfortable enough to wait for the shot.

To those saying that there is no need for tilt-swivel screens because an external monitor or an iphone-like device will replace them..... Come along on a canoe trip with me. You carry the monitor and batteries for a few weeks and see what you think of them then. You carry them up the side of a mountain on a 6 day hike and tell me how convenient they are. You try balancing yourself, a camera, and a monitor while in a canoe going down a rapid... They may be great in a studio but most of life happens outside.......

Personally, I welcome the addition of tilt-swivel and wireless... it allows me to expand my creativity.... but they are just tools. Sometimes they are usefull and sometimes not. The mix depends on who you are and what you are doing.... just because you don't like something does not mean that everyone else shouldn't.

All this is speculation over a rumour. It is meaningless. We know that sensors are getting better and the ISO range is expanding. We know that changes are being made to focus systems. We know that processors are getting better. We know that new technologies are emerging. All that can be safely said is that the trend will be towards better cameras and higher cost and that at some time new cameras will be introduced.


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## Sitting Elf (Oct 10, 2012)

+1 on Don's post.

I fully intend on keeping my 7D handy. I have three FF's now, but there are definitely times when I want to reach out further. I also use my 7D for those instances where I might need a quick pop-up flash, without having to go through the setup of an E-TTL Flash.

My only wish is that my 7D (as well as the others) had onboard GPS, and WI-FI. I have workarounds, but it would just be simpler if Canon included them in-camera.

I will ALWAYS have an APS-C camera somewhere in my kit.


----------



## chadders (Oct 10, 2012)

Just back from two weeks vacation and catching up with all the rumours.

It's comforting to see that nothing changes much here. Yet more complaints, moans and hysteria about another camera that hasn't seen the light of day yet (if it ever does). There isn't even a credible spec yet and already we have the usual suspects complaining that it's under-specified, or it's not exactly what they want.

You guys must all have crystal balls. Why don't you take a day off from griping and go take some photographs?


----------



## Sameer Thawani (Oct 10, 2012)

I just hope Canon keeps the 7D aka upper end crop sensor body alive. As other posters on this thread have indicated, there's plenty of a market for that, amongst both hobbyists and paid professionals.


----------



## distant.star (Oct 11, 2012)

chadders said:


> Just back from two weeks vacation and catching up with all the rumours.
> 
> It's comforting to see that nothing changes much here. Yet more complaints, moans and hysteria about another camera that hasn't seen the light of day yet (if it ever does). There isn't even a credible spec yet and already we have the usual suspects complaining that it's under-specified, or it's not exactly what they want.
> 
> You guys must all have crystal balls. Why don't you take a day off from griping and go take some photographs?



That's funny!

Welcome home.


----------



## that1guyy (Oct 11, 2012)

Sitting Elf said:


> +1 on Don's post.
> 
> I fully intend on keeping my 7D handy. I have three FF's now, but there are definitely times when I want to reach out further. I also use my 7D for those instances where I might need a quick pop-up flash, without having to go through the setup of an E-TTL Flash.
> 
> ...



What if Canon introduces a crop mode on a full frame so you can use it as an APS-C when you need the extra range. I assume Canon will start putting wi-fi on all their cameras soon so maybe you won't need that 7D soon?


----------



## Sitting Elf (Oct 11, 2012)

that1guyy said:


> Sitting Elf said:
> 
> 
> > +1 on Don's post.
> ...



I already have three FF's; two of which are latest models (5D3 and 1DX)
The 7D is still of value for the original reasons mentioned. (APS-C, FPS, and Pop-up Flash). 
I wouldn't want to use a FF as an APS-C. Technically, I can do that now. Doesn't make any sense to me.

When I'm out shooting, I carry both the 1DX and 7D. Each have their place. My 5D's are for my Studio. I "might" use the 5D3 on the road occasionally, but don't really see any additional benefit unless I really, really, really need the extra 4 megapixels of the 5D.


----------



## AlanF (Oct 11, 2012)

You don't get extra range by cropping a full frame sensor: all you do is to narrow the field of view without increasing the resolution or effective focal length. The reason why the 7D has an apparent better effective focal length is because its APSC sensor has a higher density of pixels that are smaller and closer together than the same number of megapixels on a full frame. The rumoured high pixel FF would be roughly equivalent to the 7D.


----------



## AprilForever (Oct 11, 2012)

AlanF said:


> You don't get extra range by cropping a full frame sensor: all you do is to narrow the field of view without increasing the resolution or effective focal length. The reason why the 7D has an apparent better effective focal length is because its APSC sensor has a higher density of pixels that are smaller and closer together than the same number of megapixels on a full frame. The rumoured high pixel FF would be roughly equivalent to the 7D.



How about lighter weight and way better image corners? APS-C is not just the lame man's version of FF. They are tow different tools. If Canon wanted, they caould really make the 7D mk II killer. THis may come with a killer price tag, though...


----------



## chadders (Oct 11, 2012)

distant.star said:


> chadders said:
> 
> 
> > Just back from two weeks vacation and catching up with all the rumours.
> ...



Thanks ;D


----------



## coreyhkh (Oct 11, 2012)

I hope canon makes the next version good, because there is not many option right now for sport or wildlife guys that need extra reach. The 1dmk4 is good but old and outdated and the 1DX is overpriced and has the wrong sensor.


----------



## marekjoz (Oct 11, 2012)

coreyhkh said:


> I hope canon makes the next version good, because there is not many option right now for sport or wildlife guys that need extra reach. The 1dmk4 is good but old and outdated and the 1DX is overpriced and has the wrong sensor.



Have you tried Celestron?


----------



## verysimplejason (Oct 12, 2012)

distant.star said:


> chadders said:
> 
> 
> > Just back from two weeks vacation and catching up with all the rumours.
> ...


----------



## Ellen Schmidtee (Oct 14, 2012)

AprilForever said:


> AlanF said:
> 
> 
> > You don't get extra range by cropping a full frame sensor: all you do is to narrow the field of view without increasing the resolution or effective focal length. The reason why the 7D has an apparent better effective focal length is because its APSC sensor has a higher density of pixels that are smaller and closer together than the same number of megapixels on a full frame. The rumoured high pixel FF would be roughly equivalent to the 7D.
> ...



You'd get better image corner by cropping an FF photo. Look at the reviews of the 24mm f/1.4 USM L at photozone - it has less vignetting on APS-C (1.1 stops vs 3.3 when wide open) because the corners (where the worst of the vignetting occurs) are cropped.

Then again, EF-S lenses with focal length X might have less vignetting at 26.8mm (= half the 7D sensor's diagonal) from the sensor's center than EF lenses with focal length X/1.6, but I've never heard of such testing being done.


----------



## DB (Oct 14, 2012)

marekjoz said:


> DB said:
> 
> 
> > *Every year* Canon launches a *new Rebel body*, so 2013 we can expect a 700D. Could Canon conceivably launch a *70D + a 700D* at the same time or *even in the same year*? Maybe they could, but *I sincerely doubt it*. It would be like BMW launching a new 5-series as well as a new model the 50-series in the same year! *Even the marketers are not that dumb *
> ...



As someone who is not a native English speaker (I understand you're Polish), you did not understand my simple logic, so I'll make it even plainer:

(1) Each year Canon typically launches a new Rebel body - so in 2013 we may expect a new 700D (T5i)

(2) Canon DO NOT typically launch a 40D, 50D, 60D......70D (xxD model) each & every year - so once cannot say for sure that one is definitely expected in 2013

(3) It just so happens that 2013 is a year that a replacement for the 60D would normally occur, but to call it a 70D and simultaneously launch a 700D would be too confusing (coincidence that model numbers may conflict)


What I said, in clear concise English was it would be a marketing disaster to attempt to launch 2 new products the same year with nearly identical (except for one zero) model numbers.

...btw P-R-O-V-E-D is how you spell 'proved'...and you actually proved nothing other than trying to be clever...and you did not do a good job at that.

This is a forum for Canon aficionados who are seriously interested in what new products are coming down the line and what the model designation that Canon deem fit to call them e.g. the new 6D is a good example. The 7D is also a model that is due for an upgrade (7D will be 4 years old in 2013) and there are rumours that the 7D2 and a 70D might be merged to create a new King of the Crop Sensors -> this further validates my argument that Canon may be cautious about releasing a new product called the '70D' for the reasons mentioned above. What really matters is what additional features this new flagship crop body will have.


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## marekjoz (Oct 14, 2012)

DB said:


> As someone who is not a native English speaker (I understand you're Polish), you did not understand my simple logic, so I'll make it even plainer:
> 
> (1) Each year Canon typically launches a new Rebel body - so in 2013 we may expect a new 700D (T5i)
> 
> ...



Ok, If this is what you meant, then of course you're right, but it was not clear for me - maybe because I'm not native. I agree, that from this point of view it would be a disaster to launch 7d2, 70d and 700d at the same time. 

Proved (by you)


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## Bosman (Oct 14, 2012)

The next 7D whatever it is named will be in my opinion what the 5DM3 was to the 5DM2 is. The 5DM3 setttled all the complaints of its previous 2 versions of the 5d, namely focus system. In the case of the next 7d or whatever it is called, i believe the improvement will definitely be the sensor and the noise as overall the 7d has no competition in its form factor, again my opinion. Another way to say it is the 7d is almost perfect for what it is. I am not totally certain i will buy one since i recently dropped my 1DM3 leaving a good scuff on it meaning i won't be able to sell it without giving it away. My 1DM3 is still very powerful and no slouch and for weddings it is very capable but then again I'd like a little more flexibility when shooting sports in early spring and in the fall since mornings are much darker. The 5DM3 has been my go to for my sports this year yet it laggs just a little more than ideal for sports. I have used the 5DM3 successfully this whole season but a great lowlight sports camera before going nuts on a 1Dx purchase like a new 7D would really fill in that gap. Sad to say i will have a 5D and a 1DM3 probably collecting dust but the value they are to me are beyond what their current and future street values will be. In addition i would get a lot of value out of a 7D2 for weddings but it would affect the use of my 24LII more than i may like since the 1DM3 has it glued on when i shoot weddings and it only increases the focal length by 1.3 making it 31mm. I shoot the 5dm3 with the 50L on most the time too so 31mm and 50mm for most of my wedding work and the 70-200L II when it is needed. The 7D2 would force me to use two very similar focal lengths and the 6D is kinda iffy since the focus system is a joke. I have a lot to weigh my mind on. I don't want to buy two cameras but a better low light sports camera and an additional FF for weddings would be ideal but the budget is tight for a 2 camera purchase. This is what marketers and designers of products count on, the force you to choose one or the other or both based on their specs. How many have pined over which mac to get or camera that had to give up something to buy one or the other? Its constant. Nikon does a better job of giving you most everything you could need for any kind of photography prior to the D800 since they dont skimp on metering or focus systems. When it comes down to it FPS and Focus systems are the two dominant factors for me, next up is hi-iso performance. Buffer used to be one of the top problems but thankfully CF card speeds have surpassed cameras until the D800. Keep things around 20mp and you have no buffer issues. The new Cf standard CFast 2 or whatever will again resolve the high mp buffer issues. Wow, i didnt know i had so much to share but these factors and thoughts are what churn in my brain.


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## sanj (Oct 14, 2012)

DB said:


> marekjoz said:
> 
> 
> > DB said:
> ...



Well said!


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## DB (Oct 14, 2012)

@ Bosman, you sir are an optimist amongst sceptics : I fully agree with you that the current 7D has filled an important niche in the market, particularly as a 2nd-body DSLR, but I (anyway) atrribute that to the way in which Canon developed the 7D by asking professional photographers (the infamous 5,000 questionnaires) what it was they wanted in a crop-sensor camera, resulting in a 'poor man's 1DIV' (apologies for such a drab analogy), yet your optimism foresees a kind and benevolent Canon Inc. making a new 7D2 the 'poor man's 1DX'. I just hope that you are indeed correct and that Canon produce a 7D2 with unique AF + Speed, whilst improving DR + Noise, with the added constraint of possibly even smaller pixels. 

Apparently Sony have improved the tech in their new Alpha-99, which uses the same 24.3MP Exmor sensor as the latest Nikon offerings, but their 'shallower' pixel wells allow more light to hit the photo receptors which are also a bit larger ( I think of this improvement in micro architecture design as something akin to what Intel achieved with the Sandybridge & Ivybridge chips i.e. 32nm and 22nm chip thickness as opposed to older 45nm+ chips). Anyway, if Canon can produce a 7D2 that shoots 10fps and improves ISO by at least 1 stop, and has an AF system at least as good as the classic 7D, then I'm sure it will sell in large quantities.


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## Richard8971 (Nov 5, 2012)

The 7D is one of Canon's best selling cameras and for good reason. I love my 7D and (for now) I cannot imagine another camera filling my needs (for the price). 

It is fast and responsive. The images are super, even at higher ISO's. I don't try and compare it to full frame as they have a huge advantage over crop sensors for image quality and color processing. However for "brute" speed and great image quality, you cannot beat the 7D. I took these images yesterday at ISO 640/800 respectively. 'Target on' AF and "right now" shutter response! Yes the 5D3 is a great camera but at 2 grand more over the 7D? You can keep it.

BIF (birds in flight) can test the limits of ANY camera. The 7D? It passes with "flying" colors, no pun intended! 

I love the 7D and I can only imagine that Canon is planning one hell of a replacement body for it!

D

P.S. CR limts me to 700 pixels wide (max) for uploads.  Don't let the image size limitations sway you, the full size photos are aweome!


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## Jamie Douglas (Nov 5, 2012)

Canon 7D has enjoyed one of the longest shelve lifes in the DLSR age and I am sooo glad I waitied out the 50D and bought my 7D in January 2009. 

The AF is super quick and if you handle the exposure well then high ISOs are a breeze.

Check out what the AF can manage...

Mid air Puffin - http://jamiedouglasphotography.com/p646954356/h12715cc9#h12715cc9

Incoming Puffin - http://jamiedouglasphotography.com/p646954356/ha3897d3#ha3897d3

Black Bear Cub ISO1250 - http://jamiedouglasphotography.com/p646954356/hac981db#hac981db

I recently upgraded to a Canon 1D Mark IV but kept a firm hold of my 7D which is the perfect backup body.


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## pakosouthpark (Nov 8, 2012)

canon should have an option so you could choose some specs for your camera! like a swivel screen, video capabilities, wifi, GPS.. like a computer you can upgrade some features or leave it as it is..


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## Bosman (Nov 8, 2012)

DB lol an optimist skeptic. Canon has been solving the puzzle pretty good for a while now. The 7D just happens to be the first legit poor mans sports camera. They made a poor mans 1dsm3 in the 5D. Now the 5DM3 is kinda the poor mans 1dx but it doesn't legitimately fill the sports action category so It really is up to another camera to do that right. On the other hand the 1dx isn't really the 5dm3 big brother in my opinion. We still need a studio version 1d something of the 5dm3 and a small version of the 1dx unless Canon is changing its lineup process. These are thoughts on the matter, i claim no superior knowledge. In fact I a dumb sometimes lol.

Pakosouthpark swivel screens aren't upgrades for the heavy shooters they compromise weather proofing and increase repair needs as more things can break. I personally don't care about wifi or GPS but believe it should be in all cameras however the 6d has it because the body is plastic. Magnesium alloy has been the body chassis for the better canon bodies for quite some time now and i can vouch for its durability on my 1d series camera hitting concrete and not missing a beat. I do believe we have had specialized plastics for some time that rival and surpass metal, it only a matter of time before we see some manufacturer switching out their foundries for plastics and making them fully plastic. Lenses are being made now that are plastic like the 100 F2.8 macro for example. You could drop it and you wouldn't have a permanent dent rendering a locked focus, it potentially could be able to take a drop with a bounce instead. Maybe the 6D is the beginning of a new frontier of body making processes because it is bordering on pro more than any xxd or xxxd camera yet. Maybe carbon fiber is an option for internals to make the 1d series much lighter. I believe a camera body design revolution needs to happen in the near future but it may take a company like Sony to push that envelope of innovation to get Canon off its comfortable A**. Lightness of a pro product has yet to be dealt with. Each 1D they have claimed how they are lighter than the previous but that was more thanks to their battery technology and size. They have yet to really solve that. It will have to really be sold as more durable to the 1 series owners for it to launch out into the wild. 
Ok, i got on a tanget a bit there.


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## ZoeEnPhos (Nov 8, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> FTb-n said:
> 
> 
> > Gotta keep the two processors. It's the secret to the focusing performance...
> ...



Hello again Neuroanatomist!

Big *THANK* for your excellent specs/facts about the 7D!
Appreciated much!
Wishing you a very good day sir!
/C


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## RLPhoto (Nov 8, 2012)

-10fps

-20MP

-Useable ISO 100-6400- Push 12,800

-Magnesium Body

-1,799$ ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ? ?


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## jrista (Nov 8, 2012)

DB said:


> @ Bosman, you sir are an optimist amongst sceptics : I fully agree with you that the current 7D has filled an important niche in the market, particularly as a 2nd-body DSLR, but I (anyway) atrribute that to the way in which Canon developed the 7D by asking professional photographers (the infamous 5,000 questionnaires) what it was they wanted in a crop-sensor camera, resulting in a 'poor man's 1DIV' (apologies for such a drab analogy), yet your optimism foresees a kind and benevolent Canon Inc. making a new 7D2 the 'poor man's 1DX'. I just hope that you are indeed correct and that Canon produce a 7D2 with unique AF + Speed, whilst improving DR + Noise, with the added constraint of possibly even smaller pixels.



Canon sensors have yet to push past the 50% Q.E. barrier, on any sensor. Sony sensors, and a few Nikon sensors, have pushed past the 50% Q.E. barrier, and Exmor is pushing 60%. Improvements to Q.E. can improve photon noise, even with a smaller pixel.



DB said:


> Apparently Sony have improved the tech in their new Alpha-99, which uses the same 24.3MP Exmor sensor as the latest Nikon offerings, but their 'shallower' pixel wells allow more light to hit the photo receptors which are also a bit larger ( I think of this improvement in micro architecture design as something akin to what Intel achieved with the Sandybridge & Ivybridge chips i.e. 32nm and 22nm chip thickness as opposed to older 45nm+ chips). Anyway, if Canon can produce a 7D2 that shoots 10fps and improves ISO by at least 1 stop, and has an AF system at least as good as the classic 7D, then I'm sure it will sell in large quantities.



Same thing here...your talking about Q.E., or quantum efficiency. There is a certain amount of light lost at each pixel, due to a variety of things. Some light is lost when it reflects off of the filter stack just above the sensor. I wouldn't say the IR cut/low pass filter stack is a significant source of light loss, but is a key factor. The color filter at each pixel absorbs a fairly significant amount of light...you lose at least 15-20% here, if not more...depends on how strong the filter is. Photons that strike parts of the sensor die that are not the photodiode may reflect out of the pixel well, or convert to heat. Not every photon actually converts to an electron. By minimizing these losses, you improve the quantum efficiency of your sensor.

Assuming you had a FF camera with 30% Q.E., and an APS-C camera with half the pixel area and 60% Q.E., there is no reason the APS-C camera couldn't perform just as well as the FF camera from a noise standpoint. Technically speaking, you could capture the same number of photons per pixel despite the fact that one pixel is 1.4x smaller. Canon sensors have around 45% Q.E. today, so unless they can improve Q.E. to around 90% for the next 7D, it wouldn't necessarily perform as well as a 1D X...but neither would it perform 2x as bad. An APS-C sensor with 60-65% Q.E. could perform VERY well on the noise front. As for DR, that is a whole other beast, as it is limited on the shadow end by electronic noise in the sensor (i.e. noise caused by dark current and differences in response from pixel to pixel, etc.) Canon would need to implement some fairly radical fabrication improvements (which I believe they are indeed capable of), and possibly a shift to some kind of CP-ADC with digital noise reduction (vs. analog noise reduction).


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## wickidwombat (Nov 8, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> -10fps
> 
> -20MP
> 
> ...



if its ISO Level was similar to the 5Dmk2 from ISO 100 to 6400 without the horrid low iso noise and had improved quality of the noise as in the 5Dmk3 so it could handle noise reduction better
then that would be a pretty sweet camera

or even better still 22MP APS-H  (relax guys i'm just teasing even though i do want them to make this)


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## ScottyP (Nov 9, 2012)

I just don't think Canon has the capability of making a better low-noise-at-high-ISO crop sensor right now. 

After all, the original 7D shared a sensor with T2i, T3i and 60D. And they just released the T4i with a brand new sensor which does not have any better noise handling (maybe slightly worse?). 

Hope I'm wrong though. Better IQ at high ISO would win me over.


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## moreorless (Nov 9, 2012)

distant.star said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > I think we’ll see the APS-C market slow down a bit, now that the D600 and EOS 6D are changing the pricing structure for consumer camera bodies.
> ...



There is a gap but I wonder whether the tradisional xxD is still best suited to filling it.

I look at Nikon's recent pricing with the D3200 and D5200 both effectively shifting up a class and I wonder whether the latter isnt better suited to this market, that is a body the size of the xxxD but with a more advanced AF system.

As DSLR's look to expand beyond tradisional users(its cliched but how often do you see non pro women with something larger than an xxxD?) and come into competision with mirrorless cameras I think size will become more of an issue and build quality less of one.


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## Scott_7D (Nov 9, 2012)

Not to be a stickler, but the 7D was announced in Setptember 2009 and available in October...




Jamie Douglas said:


> Canon 7D has enjoyed one of the longest shelve lifes in the DLSR age and I am sooo glad I waitied out the 50D and bought my 7D in January 2009.
> 
> The AF is super quick and if you handle the exposure well then high ISOs are a breeze.
> 
> ...


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## x-vision (Nov 9, 2012)

distant.star said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > I think we’ll see the APS-C market slow down a bit, now that the D600 and EOS 6D are changing the pricing structure for consumer camera bodies.
> ...



The gap between $1K and $2K is shaping up as a dead zone for the time being. 
Nikon has it too, btw.

The reason seems to be that consumers do not want to spend more than ~$1K on a camera.
And pros and enthusiasts seem to demand higher specs & performance, which manufacturers cannot meet cost-effectively with sub-$2K models.

At the end, cameras in the $1K-$2K range end up being unattractive to all groups of buyers - expensive for consumers and yet not good enough for pros and many enthusiasts. 

Looking forward, it seems likely to me that Canon will raise the price of the 7DII to around $2K, while keeping the 70D price at around $1K.
For these prices to work, though, Canon needs to put a high-performance (crop) sensor in the 7DII. 

Otherwise, the 7DII image quality will be perceived as substandard and the 7DII will fall into the dead zone, where the it’s unattractive to most buyers.


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## Sameer Thawani (Nov 12, 2012)

Canon Rumors said:


> <div name=\"googleone_share_1\" style=\"position:relative;z-index:5;float: right; /*margin: 70px 0 0 0;*/ top:70px; right:120px; width:0;\"><glusone size=\"tall\" count=\"1\" href=\"http://www.canonrumors.com/?p=11573\"></glusone></div><div style=\"float: right; margin:0 0 70px 70px;\"><a href=\"https://twitter.com/share\" class=\"twitter-share-button\" data-count=\"vertical\" data-url=\"http://www.canonrumors.com/?p=11573\">Tweet</a></div>
> <strong>A new EOS 7D Mark II mention
> 
> 
> ...



Potentially yes. But also we must bear in mind that the D600 is at the same price point as the D700 (never mind that the specs are a combination of inferior/superior to the D700) and the 6D sits at the original price point of the 5DMKII. When both of these were around, we still had the D300s & 7D. But I agree with you, I think they are pushing the full frame lines first - probably because the full frame lenses were are compelled to buy bring in a higher sales number.


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