# Any way to extend a failing shutter's life time?



## Marsu42 (Sep 6, 2014)

My old 60d's shutter shows some hiccups then and again, usually the first frame after the camera hasn't been used for a while (like the attached picture) or after a lot of fast brackets the camera crashes with err80. I'd like to keep the crop camera around for a while for macro work though, so:

Question: Is there anything I can do to make a complete shutter failure less likely? Like probably...
* don't shoot at high shutter speeds (like what? no 1/8000? or even no 1/1000?) 
* don't shoot at max x-sync speed which needs the most precise shutter sync (60d: 1/250s)
* don't shoot in hot or cold conditions (like what?)
* talk to the camera in a calm voice

Edit: This 60d's shutter now has 160k cycles (it's rated for only 100k).

Thanks for any hints (even if I learn there's nothing I can do)!


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## ULFULFSEN (Sep 6, 2014)

> Question: Is there anything I can do to make a complete shutter failure less likely? Like probably...
> * don't shoot at high shutter speeds (like what? no 1/8000? or even no 1/1000?)
> * don't shoot at max x-sync speed which needs the most precise shutter sync (60d: 1/250s)
> * don't shoot in hot or cold conditions (like what?)
> * talk to the camera in a calm voice



* Don´t shoot

When it´s broken send it in and have it replaced.

I would never go out shooting with such a camera when i know it can break down every second.


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## rs (Sep 6, 2014)

The speed the shutter curtains move at is the same at any shutter speed. It's just the timing between the opening and closing which alters. X sync is when the 2nd curtain starts to close when the 1st curtain has just finished opening.

Having said that, at very high shutter speeds, the physical gap between the two curtains is so small it's just a narrow slit which scrolls across the sensor. If any mechanical issues occur there, they're more likely to contact. I have no idea what sort of speeds would be more likely to cause an issue. 

Low temperatures are more likely to cause sticking issues.

But why not just get the shutter serviced/replaced?


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## Marsu42 (Sep 6, 2014)

rs said:


> The speed the shutter curtains move at is the same at any shutter speed. It's just the timing between the opening and closing which alters. X sync is when the 2nd curtain starts to close when the 1st curtain has just finished opening.



My thinking was that a camera with a worn shutter would have more difficulty to time the 1st/2nd curtain sync - for example the broken shot above was taken with the 60d's max. x-sync.



rs said:


> But why not just get the shutter serviced/replaced?



I didn't ask for the price yet, but in Germany service costs are very high due to the qualified personal wanting to get paid. In conjunction with the state my "outdoor" 60d is in, I'd rather wait some and buy a replacement 18mp Rebel with 2y warranty or a cheap one from ebay that was only used to shoot grandma's birthday. For most macro work, usability doesn't matter at all, it just has to run Magic Lantern.

The shots I do with it are far in between and of course not mission critical, I also don't use it as a reliable backup camera.


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## ULFULFSEN (Sep 6, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> I didn't ask for the price yet, but in Germany service costs are very high due to the qualified personal wanting to get paid.



You think Canon India for example has unqualified personal? ;D


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## RLPhoto (Sep 6, 2014)

Well you got your money's worth of life out of it. That 60D should have died much earlier. The best option I've personally used before is if your camera is broken, you can send it in to canon for an exchange rate on a newer camera like a 70D. I used that to jump from my broken XSI---->7D.

If you don't mind keeping the camera for the next three years, replace the shutter but don't keep shooting to be frustrated when it dies when you need it the most.

otherwise don't use it, and sell for what you can get for it.


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## Marsu42 (Sep 6, 2014)

ULFULFSEN said:


> You think Canon India for example has unqualified personal? ;D



As your ;p indicates you know I didn't want to imply that. I was just trying to rationalize why local Canon service charges about €80 just for picking up the screwdriver.

German qualified personal fees are very high, that's why moonlighting is on the rise and I recently read the society is drifting into a "do it yourself" mentality since a good part of the people cannot pay for qualified labor. That's one of the reasons why pro photogs have such a hard time btw.



RLPhoto said:


> otherwise don't use it, and sell for what you can get for it.



Good thinking, but the thing looks so worn down it won't be worth much even though it's still working. Somehow. On the other hand I just saw they're trying to sell *defective* 60d with broken shutter or mirror for 100€+ on ebay. Strange world.

My 60d is still working ok, maybe it will go on shooting the way it does for a long time - or is this behavior a sign of certain doom in the near future?


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## ajfotofilmagem (Sep 6, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> ULFULFSEN said:
> 
> 
> > You think Canon India for example has unqualified personal? ;D
> ...


It seems to me that can break at any time. If you're lucky, can last several months, avoiding "see" the defect with slow shutter speeds. The market value of 60D is disheartening to spend hundreds of Euros to fix this.


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## mrsfotografie (Sep 6, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> Edit: This 60d's shutter now has 160k cycles (it's rated for only 100k).



Obviously your 60D is end of life. It has served you well, and even performed way beyond expectation. Now let it go...


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## surapon (Sep 6, 2014)

mrsfotografie said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > Edit: This 60d's shutter now has 160k cycles (it's rated for only 100k).
> ...



+ 100 for me too
My dear 1DS after 300,000+ shots, I replace the Shutter system( + Tune-UP and Claening the system/ Camera.), By CPS/ Canon / Newport News, VA. 23606= $ 450 US Dollars, And Now = 150,000 + for the second life of Shutter.

For Your 60D, Please throw away and by the New Canon Camera.
Good Luck.
Surapon


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## Busted Knuckles (Sep 6, 2014)

At somewhere around assuming you bought in the 1st day $1000.00/160000 = $0.006 per click. and even if $450 for new shutter assembly (great big why??? would you do this). Invest the $450 etc etc into a new(er) body i.e. another 60d on ebay w/ low shutter count on e-bay U.S. they seem to be going $300 - $350 ish. If you can pull another 100,000 clicks the cost per click would be .003.

You could gamble (again a great big why) on a parts only and see if you could replace the shutter mechanism etc and save $100.

I am of the thought that the lightly used 60d would be the overall best option.

My $.002 (or 4 clicks worth)


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## lo lite (Sep 6, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> Edit: This 60d's shutter now has 160k cycles (it's rated for only 100k).



Congratulations! The 60D has been announced on August 26th 2010. This was 1472 days ago. If you got your camera right then you have an average of at least 108 actuations per day. What the hell did you do with this camera?


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## Marsu42 (Sep 6, 2014)

mrsfotografie said:


> Obviously your 60D is end of life. It has served you well, and even performed way beyond expectation. Now let it go...



Well, you're probably right, and it's good to have all these replies - it's just very hard because it was my very first dslr that accompanied me through the years :-o. But I know I'm too sentimental about memorabilia, I should write "only the pictures count" on my mirror :->



lo lite said:


> What the hell did you do with this camera?



Try focus stacking in combination with bracketing (1 resulting picture = 100 shutter cycles) or shooting wildlife (i.e. when in doubt take the shot because in a split second it's impossible to evaluate the whole scene). Also don't forget each time you engage live view for ML's focus peaking or auto-ettr it's a shutter cycle, too.


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## horshack (Sep 6, 2014)

I don't have any ideas on how to extend the life of a failing shutter but if yours is failing in a way where the two curtains are losing relative sync because of the first curtain being out of spec then shooting in Live View will help give you accurate exposures since the camera will use the electronic first curtain shutter rather than the mechanical one. The first mechanical curtain will still cycle after each photo in LV but its failing timing wont affect your exposure.


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## DominoDude (Sep 6, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> My old 60d's shutter shows some hiccups then and again, usually the first frame after the camera hasn't been used for a while (like the attached picture) or after a lot of fast brackets the camera crashes with err80. I'd like to keep the crop camera around for a while for macro work though, so:
> 
> Question: Is there anything I can do to make a complete shutter failure less likely? Like probably...
> * don't shoot at high shutter speeds (like what? no 1/8000? or even no 1/1000?)
> ...



I don't think I have much of encouragement or smart advice (as usual), but one should never underestimate talking to whacked up devices. I used to lean down over servers and with a calm and threatening tone whisper (while holding a hammer or screwdriver in my hand): If you don't reboot nicely now, I will reuse your CPU in a dishwasher! ;D

Perhaps you can try a *Halt die Klappe!*, and see if that works?

Honestly, I feel your pain, and I think that the camera has reached it's end of life after doing a long and faithful service to you. You might be able to trade it with Canon to use as a museum piece showing how worn a 60D looks when it finally dies after 60% more clicks than it's rated to.


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## lo lite (Sep 6, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> lo lite said:
> 
> 
> > What the hell did you do with this camera?
> ...



Never thought about focus stacking but then again 100 shutter cycles for one picture isn't that a bit extensive? Do you shoot wildlife in continuous shooting? Doesn't that machine gun sound shy away the wildlife? Are your images available online somewhere? Jetzt bin ich neugierig!


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## Valvebounce (Sep 7, 2014)

Hi Marsu. 
I'm sorry but I don't think it is about talking nicely to it now, it is actually about having said bad things about it in the past when it could hear you! Gadgets have very acute hearing and are very sensitive to unkind remarks, also they have no understanding of human humour so don't even joke about dropping it down the stairs to get a repair on the insurance, it will take offence! 
(I hope my iPad is not reading this as I type!)

Seriously I think you may, just may have had value for your money?

Cheers, Graham.


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## JPAZ (Sep 7, 2014)

IF you want to keep a 60D and IF it will cost $450 to fix the one you have, Canon has a refurb for sale listed at $575. Maybe get this with a "loyalty" discount or the next sale?

Just sayin'


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## Marsu42 (Sep 7, 2014)

horshack said:


> then shooting in Live View will help give you accurate exposures since the camera will use the electronic first curtain shutter rather than the mechanical one. *The first mechanical curtain will still cycle after each photo in LV but its failing timing wont affect your exposure*.



Great advice, I didn't know that, thanks!!! This means I might keep using it for focus stacking! Btw Magic Lantern now even has full res "silent pix" without moving the shutter, but it's limited to very slow shutter speeds of max 1/30s.



DominoDude said:


> You might be able to trade it with Canon to use as a museum piece showing how worn a 60D looks when it finally dies after 60% more clicks than it's rated to.



I admit I never became friends with the idea that a *digital* (= electronic, lossless) camera is still limited by a moving part and the service cost is so high you essentially are better off buying a new one. 160k is not *that* unusual, see http://www.olegkikin.com/shutterlife/canon_eos40d.htm



lo lite said:


> Do you shoot wildlife in continuous shooting? Doesn't that machine gun sound shy away the wildlife?



I never do that but use flash most of the time which excludes the machine gun setting - that's why I'm fine with only 4.5fps of my 6d. But for what I shoot, getting the animal's eyes exactly in focus is difficult, so I usually take at least one safety shot = essentially half shutter life. Plus focus stacking, bracketing and panorama as written above.



lo lite said:


> Never thought about focus stacking but then again 100 shutter cycles for one picture isn't that a bit extensive?



Most shots are ~20-30frames, but for shots in natural light including bright and shadows you need bracketing. If you want a larger object to be 100% sharp start to finish in 100% magnification, that's how it's done.


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