# Could the 7D-iii be closer than we might think???



## LoneRider (Apr 28, 2016)

Absolute speculation, but, with the 1DX-ii out, and considering it has the same MP and similar specs as a "fixed" 7D-ii. *IF* Canon architecture is up to the task, I think it is reasonable the 7D-iii *could* be out within 6 to 9 months.

So, they both have 20.2MP, and there is nothing wrong with the ID of the 7D-ii except for the lack of a touch screen. So if the Mechanical Engineers and Product Engineers can sneak in a touch screen and leave the bulk of the tooling alone, *AND* the IC guys can get an APS-C 20.2 MP chip with on-die ADC ready. All you would have to do if figure out the thermal issues, if any, and copy over the schematic capture from the 1DX-ii (including the DIGIC 6+), and you could have a 7D-iii with DPAF with touchscreen, 4K crop video, and a few other little features that are on the 80D but missing on the 7D-ii.

Big risk items, working on the new sensor getting in the way of the 5D-iv's sensor, and other development resources, and of course thermal considerations for doing 4K video in the enclosure.

Canon is already discounting the 7D-ii. So that could be a fast track to keeping their flagship APS-C camera shining bright without a lot of risk or development time. It would truly be a slightly slower 1DX-ii with a APS-C sensor.

Anyway, just to through some gas on the fire.


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## -1 (Apr 28, 2016)

They could put the 80D sensor in a 7D body and ad some memory and stuff to buff up the buffer and framerate...


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## RGF (Apr 28, 2016)

I would like to see a 1DX crop - similar build/features as 1Dx M2 with a 80D sensor


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## arcer (Apr 28, 2016)

My 7D3 expected specifications:

24.2MP DPAF sensor, improved version from the 80D (hopefully weaker AA filter)
65 AF (all cross type), 65 AF (25 cross type) at f/8, double cross at f/2.8 with -3.5EV sensitivity
Better RGB+IR metering sensor
Dual DIGIC 7
12fps liveview, 10fps with AF/AE
Native ISO of 100 - 25600
Higher resolution touchscreen 3.0" LCD
If 4K is really introduced, expects it to be DCI also
1080p 120fps (Heard somewhere that DIGIC 7 might have H.265 standard)
CFast and SD
WiFi and GPS
LP-E20 battery like recently rumored for 5D4
Release Date: Summer 2017 - Fall 2018

A lot of the current expectations derived from the latest release, 80D and 1DX2, and a bit on the "not-yet-reliable" rumor of 5D4.


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## pwp (Apr 28, 2016)

RGF said:


> I would like to see a 1DX crop - similar build/features as 1Dx M2 with a 80D sensor



Nah...APS-H. I'd love to retire my 1D MkIV (APS-H x1.3 crop)

-pw


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## AdamBotond (Apr 28, 2016)

I am pretty sure that development of 7D III is already on the way. It has to be. Not just because recently Canon has made some innovation stuff with DPAF and better sensor tech that current 7D II lacks, but also beacuse Nikons D500 is clearly the best APSC flagship right now. Canon has to give something that can compete, so I'm expecting them to release 7D III in first half of 2017. Certainly, it won't happen before releasing 5D IV and probably 6D II.

My 2 cents only.


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## RGF (Apr 28, 2016)

pwp said:


> RGF said:
> 
> 
> > I would like to see a 1DX crop - similar build/features as 1Dx M2 with a 80D sensor
> ...



As much as I would like to see the APS-H return to camera, I have given up all hope.


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## davidj (Apr 28, 2016)

I'd be happily surprised if it's out within the next 12 months. The 5D IV is due out later this year, and it will get it's time in the spotlight. The 6D II will probably be next, as it's certainly due for an update. However, there isn't currently so much competitive pressure from Nikon here. My best guess is that the 6D II will be out in February or so next year (edit: the latest 6D II rumour gives that date too).

I wouldn't normally think that the 7D III is close given it's age, but the 7D II isn't ideally positioned with the 80D being good and, more importantly, the D500. The 7D III could also be released sooner after the 5D IV than the 6D II, as the markets for the two cameras would overlap less. If I was forced to guess, I'd say May next year for the 7D III, and probably before the end of 2017.


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## Drum (Apr 28, 2016)

Canon don't seem to respond to the Nikon and Sony competition releases.... Just look at the countless discussions about DR!!! I wouldn't expect a 7D3 anytime soon.


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## Mikehit (Apr 28, 2016)

AdamBotond said:


> I am pretty sure that development of 7D III is already on the way. It has to be. Not just because recently Canon has made some innovation stuff with DPAF and better sensor tech that current 7D II lacks, but also beacuse Nikons D500 is clearly the best APSC flagship right now. Canon has to give something that can compete, so I'm expecting them to release 7D III in first half of 2017. Certainly, it won't happen before releasing 5D IV and probably 6D II.
> 
> My 2 cents only.



I don't think Nikon is a driver for Canon at all. Look how long it took for the MkII to come out despite advances with Nikon sensors - I think that with the 7D2 Canon saw the had a niche position with the 7D being the best APS-C for action shots and they did not release the 7D2 until they knew they had a camera that was a genuine advance instead of an incremental one.
Given that the 7D2 was targeted at sports/action I have not seen any real-world reviews that suggest that the D500 is "the best APSC flagship right now" in that arena.


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## scyrene (Apr 28, 2016)

LoneRider said:


> Absolute speculation, but, with the 1DX-ii out, and considering it has the same MP and similar specs as a "fixed" 7D-ii. *IF* Canon architecture is up to the task, I think it is reasonable the 7D-iii *could* be out within 6 to 9 months.



Sorry to post a boring reply, but it boils down to sales, pretty much entirely imho. If the 7DII sales dip, for whatever reason, perhaps they will rush the replacement. But that's it.



pwp said:


> RGF said:
> 
> 
> > I would like to see a 1DX crop - similar build/features as 1Dx M2 with a 80D sensor
> ...



Can APS-H use EF-S lenses? I thought not. If not, then that would piss off a lot of people. More people use EF-S lenses than know or care about APS-H, I would contend.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Apr 28, 2016)

I believe 7D Mark iii will only come at the end of 2017. But sales 7D Mark II (if down) can anticipate a few months.


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## [email protected] (Apr 28, 2016)

A couple speculations:

1- A company that has its own sensor fab is going to be very, very attentive to maximizing its utilization. The costs are so great in this that it is just about as important as sales figures. Putting out the new, better chips will be maxing capacity, I'd suppose, for the launches of the 1d and 5d releases. When those cameras start stacking up in warehouses unsold, that'll be a good time for Canon to start turning to the production of new cameras. Perhaps the fab that turns to the 7Diii run will be the one (also APSC) that is currently putting out the 80D cameras right now. That fab will likely be busy between now and the third quarter putting out sensors for the christmas rush on 80Ds.

It seems reasonable to me it might be an auspicious time to create sensors for a 6d2 and a 7d3 toward the end of 2016. This doesn't mean at all that you'd see a camera then. This would lead to an announcement around the turn of the year at the earliest.

2 - I think that, having worked for Japanese companies a couple times, their sense of the market is going to be disproportionately established by their own local market. Some of the lack of responsiveness to major perceived issues in the U.S. may be because they didn't think it was a really big deal elsewhere. DR comes to mind. Canon USA doesn't call the shots in terms of product direction; they just buy the stuff that the mother ship puts out. 


All of this is to say that it seems like the logical target for Canon (who hasn't historically reacted quickly to competition) for these launches would be spring 2017 as a target. And we all know how well Canon meets targets. The summer/fall estimates sound more reasonable to me.


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## NancyP (Apr 28, 2016)

APS-H can't use EF-S lenses due to mount design and electronics, but may be able to use a few third party APS-C lenses if those lenses have a big image circle and don't have elements protruding into the camera past the lens mount (and interfering with mirror).

My guess is that the sales for the 7D2 will remain high enough for another year to prevent Canon from making a move to put its on-chip-ADC sensor tech and DIGIC7 x 2 into a "7D3".


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## slclick (Apr 28, 2016)

7D3 needs to get in line behind a couple big brothers


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## Don Haines (Apr 28, 2016)

slclick said:


> 7D3 needs to get in line behind a couple big brothers


+1

I am sure that the 7D3 is well into the prototype stage and early testing, but it is a safe bet that the 5D4 and 6D2 are even further along and we will not see a 7D3 until those two cameras are out on store shelves.....


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## Sabaki (Apr 28, 2016)

I think the 7Diii will have many of the generational updates we expect. Better base ISO, better DR, banding management, ergonomics etc etc

There is however, one MAJOR change I'd like to see in the 7Diii. The dedicated chipset for ITR like we see in the 1DX and 1DXii.

In my opinion, saying the autofocus system is identical to the 1DX is a major reach without this bit of tech


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## K-amps (Apr 28, 2016)

Apart from history... there is little reason to delay the 7d3 after the 6d2. They are quite different offerings, serving very different purposes.


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## ahsanford (Apr 28, 2016)

I just don't see the market leader (from a sales perspective) give a rat's ass about what Nikon is up to until they start losing market share. As well spec'd as the D500 is, I'm not convinced it's going to steal sales as dramatically as the various forum's denizens predict. I think Nikon's birders rejoiced and bought a bunch of D500s, but the hard slog is soon to be upon them -- we'll see how well a spec-based hard sell works in flipping Canon users or upcharging the Rebel/D5500 crowd in search of their next rig. Canon's really good at holding its customers through other means -- lens portfolio, service, reliability, 3rd party accessory ecosystem, etc.

So I think Canon will stick with its 'slow' 4-ish year refresh cycles on the major lines (1D, 5D, 7D, etc.). The rollout of those three brands -- and let's throw in the 6D and make it a fourth -- takes up about 18-24 months of 'air time' between the announcements, promotional materials, pre-orders, initial reviews and launch. The remainder of that 4-ish year cycle is a chance for Canon to course-correct / fill specific gaps (5DS line), update other product lines (Cinema, 80D, EOS-M, etc.), and most importantly, innovate with new product lines (XC10, perhaps dedicated drone rigs, FF mirrorless, etc.).

I think Canon is as predictable as the mailman's route through your neighborhood, but _it is working for them_, and they won't change things dramatically unless they start losing market share.

- A


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## Don Haines (Apr 28, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> I just don't see the market leader (from a sales perspective) give a rat's ass about what Nikon is up to until they start losing market share. As well spec'd as the D500 is, I'm not convinced it's going to steal sales as dramatically as the various forum's denizens predict. I think Nikon's birders rejoiced and bought a bunch of D500s, but the hard slog is soon to be upon them -- we'll see how well a spec-based hard sell works in flipping Canon users or upcharging the Rebel/D5500 crowd in search of their next rig. Canon's really good at holding its customers through other means -- lens portfolio, service, reliability, 3rd party accessory ecosystem, etc.
> 
> So I think Canon will stick with its 'slow' 4-ish year refresh cycles on the major lines (1D, 5D, 7D, etc.). The rollout of those three brands -- and let's throw in the 6D and make it a fourth -- takes up about 18-24 months of 'air time' between the announcements, promotional materials, pre-orders, initial reviews and launch. The remainder of that 4-ish year cycle is a chance for Canon to course-correct / fill specific gaps (5DS line), update other product lines (Cinema, 80D, EOS-M, etc.), and most importantly, innovate with new product lines (XC10, perhaps dedicated drone rigs, FF mirrorless, etc.).
> 
> ...


I think the big thing Nikon has done is the 200-500 F5.6 lens..... I see a LOT! of them out there..... far more than the Canon 100-400.... I can see Canon dealing with that problem before they replace the 7D2, a camera which is apparently still selling well.... but who knows, perhaps they will come out with a 7D3 and 200-600 F5.6 in time to deplete out wallets for Christmas....

But I do agree with Ahsanford, "they won't change things dramatically unless they start losing market share".


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## ahsanford (Apr 28, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> I think the big thing Nikon has done is the 200-500 F5.6 lens..... I see a LOT! of them out there..... far more than the Canon 100-400.... I can see Canon dealing with that problem before they replace the 7D2, a camera which is apparently still selling well.... but who knows, perhaps they will come out with a 7D3 and 200-600 F5.6 in time to deplete out wallets for Christmas....
> 
> But I do agree with Ahsanford, "they won't change things dramatically unless they start losing market share".



Agree that lens is a nontrivial threat to Canon business. The D500 + that $1,400 200-500 f/5.6 _might_ have made a dent in Canon's sales if the 7D2 and 100-400 II didn't hit the market immediately ahead of them. by the time Nikon delivered those things, the reach-obsessed had already emptied their wallets on the 7D2 and the White Unicorn.

- A


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## unfocused (Apr 29, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > I think the big thing Nikon has done is the 200-500 F5.6 lens..... I see a LOT! of them out there..... far more than the Canon 100-400.... I can see Canon dealing with that problem before they replace the 7D2, a camera which is apparently still selling well.... but who knows, perhaps they will come out with a 7D3 and 200-600 F5.6 in time to deplete out wallets for Christmas....
> ...



I believe that's the main reason why Canon is adding multiple f8 autofocus points to their cameras. The quality of the 100-400 "L" with the 1.4 converter is better and slightly longer and while the 1 stop difference is not insignificant, it is not insurmountable either.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 29, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> slclick said:
> 
> 
> > 7D3 needs to get in line behind a couple big brothers
> ...



I doubt that the 7D MK III is more than just a listing of goals for features and performance at this stage. A prototype would imply that they have all that stuff ironed out. I'd expect a new sensor, not a 80D sensor. Sensors do take a long time to develop. Canon may be considering Sony sensors, but may be shy of them if Sony Fabs are all in earthquake prone areas. 

As sales of cameras wind down, more and more parts sharing between manufacturers is going to happen. There is a lot now, but we may see more. I keep expecting Samsung sensors to start making them for Canon. You can bet that its been discussed.


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## ahsanford (Apr 29, 2016)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > slclick said:
> ...



I have seen so many threads on "Put the 80D sensor in the next 7D or EOS-M!" / "Make a 6D2 a FF version of the 80D!"

Canon hasn't repurposed sensors so flagrantly (even if it's a great sensor) since the Rebel days. Expect different sensors in new rigs, but we should expect whatever it is to perform well. The 80D is simply the first on-chip ADC we've seen from Canon in an SLR, correct? Surely others will follow. 

Or, to put it in 7D3 terms: ask the 7D2 camp if they want 24 MP x 10 fps or 20 MP x 12 fps. They'll take +2 fps every day of the week, and Canon knows that. That translates to the 7D3 getting a new sensor.

- A


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## unfocused (Apr 29, 2016)

ahsanford said:


> ...to put it in 7D3 terms: ask the 7D2 camp if they want 24 MP x 10 fps or 20 MP x 12 fps. They'll take +2 fps every day of the week, and Canon knows that. That translates to the 7D3 getting a new sensor.



I vote 20 mp even if it stays at 10 fps. I want every bit of high ISO performance that comes with bigger pixels. In addition, the longer it takes, the better the camera will be, so I'd rather they not rush things.


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## ahsanford (Apr 29, 2016)

unfocused said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > ...to put it in 7D3 terms: ask the 7D2 camp if they want 24 MP x 10 fps or 20 MP x 12 fps. They'll take +2 fps every day of the week, and Canon knows that. That translates to the 7D3 getting a new sensor.
> ...



Of course. Some folks just don't get that, and much like a push for the 5D4 to have a jillion MP 'because it's a higher-end / pricier rig', people want the 7D2 to have the best of _everything_ in a crop sensor which isn't possible, especially on a 5 year refresh cycle. I see the XXD line carrying the higher MP torch for crop while the 7D line focuses on higher ISO, higher framerates, etc.

- A


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## 3kramd5 (Apr 29, 2016)

LoneRider said:


> Could the 7D-iii be closer than we might think???



Yes, it COULD be closer than we MIGHT think.

Double subjective language makes for an easy bar ;P


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## LoneRider (Apr 29, 2016)

To answer a bunch of the comments about time frames and market conditions.

My speculation is completely centred around the notion that upgrading a product, in this case 7D-iii, means creating a business case. And that business case would be centered around how much money spent versus incremental revenue over the projected lifespan.

So, the fact they are already providing noticeable discounts on the 7D-ii suggests sales are slowing down, so, it would make sense there is an incremental revenue to be had! But is it worth spending the money now on an newer revision of the product.

If you stick with 20.2MP, and a significant chunk of the enclosure, and bulk of the changes to the firmware of the 1DX-ii, you have a significant chunk of the product development done. 

So what is left, do you migrate to a better AF, or is the existing 7D-ii good enough? Add on-die ADC, new PCB boards, and touchscreen and maybe CFast slot.

If all of my thoughts are true, and, in fact, the 7D-ii industrial design is good enough, and I've yet to hear of any complaints about the buttons and such, there really, in the grand scheme of things, is very little in coming out with a 7D-iii.

The only real risk, is pushing out the schedule of the 5D-iv and DPAF EOS-M cameras. I think there is going to be enough time between the 5D-iv and the 6D-ii that there is no risk in the 6D-ii release date.

Just as Ford has the Ford GT and F150 Raptor as _flagship_ vehicles, Canon needs the 1DX and 7D cameras to be perceived as _flagships_. Right now, the 7D-ii is failing Canon. And as the market is getting more competitive, Canon needs to ensure their position as a leader is secure.

Further, they've had some long runs without upgrades. They got the technology (DPAF, and on-die ADC) working well, on both APS-C and FF, they need to secure their new found prowess, and show Canon is willing to move fast when conditions allow. Thus allowing the 7D-ii to lounge around does not do that. Even if they don't think they are going to get a lot of 7D-ii to 7D-iii converts, they will at least be able to restore the price of the 7D-iii. IMNSHO they need to get on-die ADC and a solid 4K-60fps on their flagship APS-C camera ASAP. And they have all of the building blocks at hand to do so, and to do so with very little R&D.


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## Don Haines (Apr 29, 2016)

I have no interest in upgrading from a 7d2 to a 7D3 unless they really make it worthwhile....

A megapixel or two won't cut it.... another stop of ISO won't cut it..... another FPS won't cut it..... 

I hope they are ready to really shake up the market.... Take a 7D2 sized body and solidity of build, slap on the WiFi and touchscreen they should have put on the 7D2, and go mirrorless with a vengeance.... 60FPS burst rate into a large buffer, sensor-shift, 4K video, and a 200-600F6.3 to go with it and make those Nikon people regret getting their 200-500 lens.....


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## j-nord (Apr 29, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> I have no interest in upgrading from a 7d2 to a 7D3 unless they really make it worthwhile....
> 
> A megapixel or two won't cut it.... another stop of ISO won't cut it..... another FPS won't cut it.....
> 
> I hope they are ready to really shake up the market.... Take a 7D2 sized body and solidity of build, slap on the WiFi and touchscreen they should have put on the 7D2, and go mirrorless with a vengeance.... 60FPS burst rate into a large buffer, sensor-shift, 4K video, and a 200-600F6.3 to go with it and make those Nikon people regret getting their 200-500 lens.....



200-600 f6.3 is extremely unlikely. Canon doesn't make DSLR lenses slower than 5.6. 

80D level DR and ISO performance + 24 m-pix and I'd definitely pick up a 7Diii. I've held off on the 7Dii because I know the sensor won't satisfy me for a body that will likely only be used in the ISO 800-3200 range.


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## Don Haines (Apr 29, 2016)

j-nord said:


> 200-600 f6.3 is extremely unlikely. Canon doesn't make DSLR lenses slower than 5.6.



It is unlikely, yet it isn't..... The new cameras seem to handle F8 and there is no reason why the lens can not "stretch the truth" when it talks to the camera body, just like Tamron and Sigma do when you put one of those 150-600mm lenses onto your camera...


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## LoneRider (Apr 29, 2016)

j-nord said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > I have no interest in upgrading from a 7d2 to a 7D3 unless they really make it worthwhile....
> ...



I agree, what I am suggesting would not get a lot of 7D-ii converts, but would get 7D owners to pull out their bank cards. 20.2MP is fine by me, and if they can get a at least a couple of stops of DR out of the 20.2MP over the 7D-ii, then at 10FPS it would be great for sports. And I might be tempted to get a 6D-ii for landscapes 

And yeah, getting WIFI under the hood of the 7D-iii would also be cool.


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## slclick (Apr 29, 2016)

LoneRider said:


> j-nord said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



Which is somewhat parallel to the commonly held thought of more 6D users upgrading to the 5D4 and not many 5D3 users.


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## ahsanford (Apr 29, 2016)

slclick said:


> Which is somewhat parallel to the commonly held thought of more 6D users upgrading to the 5D4 and not many 5D3 users.



Based on the specs we've seen, I 100% agree. It looks like a nice [pick a small number, say 10-20%] improvement across the board over my 5D3, but I don't need a jillion f/8 teleconverter points, 4K video, or a +2 fps, so I'd likely pass on it.

But I'd expect long time 5D2 holdouts and 6D folks stepping up to a nicer rig would come running for it. We'll see.

- A


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## Don Haines (Apr 29, 2016)

slclick said:


> Which is somewhat parallel to the commonly held thought of more 6D users upgrading to the 5D4 and not many 5D3 users.


agreed!
If you are going to upgrade, make it worthwhile... go several steps newer in your product line or jump up to the next (or more) line....


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## AlanF (Apr 30, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > I just don't see the market leader (from a sales perspective) give a rat's ass about what Nikon is up to until they start losing market share. As well spec'd as the D500 is, I'm not convinced it's going to steal sales as dramatically as the various forum's denizens predict. I think Nikon's birders rejoiced and bought a bunch of D500s, but the hard slog is soon to be upon them -- we'll see how well a spec-based hard sell works in flipping Canon users or upcharging the Rebel/D5500 crowd in search of their next rig. Canon's really good at holding its customers through other means -- lens portfolio, service, reliability, 3rd party accessory ecosystem, etc.
> ...



I now see many 100-400mm IIs, but very few Nikon 200-500mm in the UK. There are also problems with the 200-500mms. A testing website tried 5 of them and two were duds. Earlier this month on Fraser's Hill in Malaysia, I met a bird guide with one who said his was soft above 350mm and he was regretting selling his 80-400mm and would be having to buy one again.


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## AlanF (Apr 30, 2016)

Now I have gone over to a camera without a low-pass filter, the 5DS R, I am never going back to a 7D or other APS-C with a filter as it softens the image, and Moiré is very rare problem.


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## AlanF (Apr 30, 2016)

dilbert said:


> AlanF said:
> 
> 
> > Now I have gone over to a camera without a low-pass filter, the 5DS R, I am never going back to a 7D or other APS-C with a filter as it softens the image, and Moiré is very rare problem.
> ...



My experience of CR is that its members listen to comments from those who do not have the reputation of BSing.


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## TeT (Apr 30, 2016)

no chance on quick 7DIII...

Only thing they do quick upgrades on is the TXi series, T7i/T7s should be due out any day now...


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## tomscott (Apr 30, 2016)

Am i the only one that think the 7DMKII is an awesome camera? Makes my 5DMKIII feel really quite old...

There are still a few features the 7DMKII is better than the 80D AF being one of them. IMO it barely ever misses and with a firmware upgrade is it possible for a few more F8 AF points? Cant see why they wouldn't? 

Every review I've read of the 80D vs the 7DMKII the 7DMKII is much better for tracking and the F8 focus is slower than the 7DMKII too... for a little bit of DR... The 7DMKII is still a beast IMO.

I spent 2 months across Africa and 2 months across south east asia with the 7DMKII shooting 20,000 images with just this body not including my 5DMKIII on the search for wildlife. Really difficult environments like Bwindi rainforest in Uganda following the mountain gorillas and Bukit Lawang on the trail of the Orangutans (to name a few) shooting mostly 6400 ISO with the 100-400mm MKII 

These images are from Facebook so are compressed unfortunately but still look fantastic imo.















































If you don't think the 7DMKII is capable you need to get out and shoot with one, a camera is more than its spec sheet. I love mine its extremely dependable when you need it.


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## zim (Apr 30, 2016)

Your correct Tom those pictures are fantastic!


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## Don Haines (Apr 30, 2016)

tomscott said:


> Am i the only one that think the 7DMKII is an awesome camera? Makes my 5DMKIII feel really quite old...
> 
> <cut>
> 
> If you don't think the 7DMKII is capable you need to get out and shoot with one, a camera is more than its spec sheet. I love mine its extremely dependable when you need it.



Agreed! It is a fantastic camera and tough enough to survive shooting in the Canadian winter and on a hot steamy summer day.... That's why, for me, a 7D mark III would have to be a massive upgrade for it to tempt me.... A bit better isn't enough incentive. Comparisons to the 80D shows it to be superior at high ISO, and that's where this beast sees a lot of action.....


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## mehaue (Apr 30, 2016)

Very true, de 7D MKII is an amazing camera and very realiable. Also you can get a lot out of pictures in post-production when the conditions are not that great. Shot with a Canon 100-400mm MKII at ISO 1600 and 1/1000 shutterspeed


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## Kwwund (Apr 30, 2016)

Thank you tomscott and MartinH! Best perspective in the thread! You've inspired me to change plans today, grab my camera (only a T3i but good enough for me) and shoot some pictures.


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## jeffa4444 (Apr 30, 2016)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > slclick said:
> ...


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## scyrene (Apr 30, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> j-nord said:
> 
> 
> > 200-600 f6.3 is extremely unlikely. Canon doesn't make DSLR lenses slower than 5.6.
> ...



This has been debated as nauseam elsewhere on these forums, as you probably know. Anything's possible, but remember those third party lenses aren't even 600mm f/6.3, they're shorter and narrower at the long end - the only way they can be so relatively small and light. I think a (Xmm-)500mm f/5.6 is more reasonable.


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## ahsanford (Apr 30, 2016)

scyrene said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > j-nord said:
> ...



The question is not whether Canon will offer a 200-(some large number) 'slower' zoom. They will.

The question is *how slow is slow*, *how big is 'some large number'* and *how much will it cost*? A very good Nikon 200-500 f/5.6 IS for $1400 is an impossibly good value proposition -- first party AF, 1.4x T/C possible on the long end, strong IQ, etc. 

Canon only going to 500mm makes little sense with such a strong 100-400L II already on the market. So most think this will be a 200-600 zoom.

Canon reaching to 600mm @ f/5.6 will not be cheap. You're well over 100mm on the entrance pupil at that point (as many have pointed out on other threads here), which will drive weight and cost considerably.

Others have also stated that Canon doesn't deploy anything slower than f/5.6 with the EF mount (I believe someone said that it was part of some Canon authored EF standard).

- A


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## scyrene (Apr 30, 2016)

dilbert said:


> AlanF said:
> 
> 
> > Now I have gone over to a camera without a low-pass filter, the 5DS R, I am never going back to a 7D or other APS-C with a filter as it softens the image, and Moiré is very rare problem.
> ...



I've no strong feelings either way on the topic. However, it does seem like one of those things a marketing department thought up - after all, were lots of people calling for the removal of the filter before? Moiré exists - it is a rare problem for most shooters, from what I've read. But it exists. And those sounding a note of caution say - moiré cannot be as easily remedied as the slight softening of an AA filter. Anti-AA evangelists don't have much to say about that.

Ultimately though, the idea one should pay a premium for the lack of a feature (strictly a feature that is disabled in the case of the 5DsR) is what stops me from considering that camera. I am glad to hear it's not showing up much in bird shots, as I expect in a few years AA filters will be much rarer - a victory for marketing.


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## Don Haines (Apr 30, 2016)

scyrene said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > j-nord said:
> ...


agreed, but everyone rounds up or down to make the numbers sound better..... 560mm at F6.5 gets rounded to 600mm at F6.3..... everyone cheats and embellishes their numbers.... even Canon and Nikon.....


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## Mikehit (May 2, 2016)

scyrene said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > AlanF said:
> ...



Apparently moire is also dependent on pixel density and the higher MP models today mean a AA filter is much less effective.


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## scyrene (May 2, 2016)

Mikehit said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



I guess it's just the ability to resolve more detail that helps. Similar to how if you downsize an image with close parallel lines or certain patterns, moiré can appear (because the resolution has decreased).


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## IglooEater (May 2, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



Yup, canon is so good at cheating that the 100mm f/2.8L IS is actually f/3.5 at minimum focus distance, but the camera will still display f/2.8 and compensate in ISO or shutter speed. Rather backwards for a macro to perform least well at minimum focus distance, but oh well.


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## ajfotofilmagem (May 2, 2016)

IglooEater said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > scyrene said:
> ...


This is an optical phenomenon that affects ALL Macro lenses when focusing on the closest distance. It is not something only Canon, but Tokina, Sigma, Nikon, etc.


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## j-nord (May 2, 2016)

Back to the OP's discussion, I think the absolute earliest we could see a 7Diii is end of 2017 and I think that is very unlikely. The 7Dii is only about 1.5 years old with no significant competitive deficiencies. Unless Canon starts employing a 'tick/tock' type upgrade cycle and puts out a minor 'S/R' upgrade, we are probably looking at 2018.


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## scyrene (May 2, 2016)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



Yes indeed, it is a well known phenomenon and not a cheat at all. Indeed the manual for the 100L macro and MP-E lenses explain it in detail.


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## whothafunk (May 5, 2016)

Sabaki said:


> In my opinion, saying the autofocus system is identical to the 1DX is a major reach without this bit of tech


It's not nowhere near identical. It's similar. 7D2 has all the 6 cases and more cross type points, but 1Dx has 5 dual cross points, more f4 sensitive, and by god, it focuses a lot better than the 7D2.


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## K (May 5, 2016)

Canon should dispense with these 5 year upgrade cycles and bring out the 7D Mark III soon after the 5D4. 

Keep the camera basically the same, but just update to the newer on-chip ADC sensor. That should give a worthwhile boost to IQ. The 80D is looking pretty good.


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## Don Haines (May 5, 2016)

K said:


> Canon should dispense with these 5 year upgrade cycles and bring out the 7D Mark III soon after the 5D4.
> 
> Keep the camera basically the same, but just update to the newer on-chip ADC sensor. That should give a worthwhile boost to IQ. The 80D is looking pretty good.


Actually, the 7D2 has much better IQ at high ISO.

There is a very real possibility that off-sensor A/D is superior at high ISO and that on chip is superior at low ISO. Only time will tell, but right now it looks like it is making a compromise.....


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## K (May 14, 2016)

Early examples and tests show that the D500 IQ is noticeably better than the 7D2. That is saying something, given that Canon glass is better. That indicates to me that Nikon's sensor is better, and is making up for it quite a bit. Much like how the 5D3 was holding even with the D810 because of superior L glass, despite the significant megapixel disadvantage. 

The lack of AA filter isn't the only factor. The D7200 previously held the best IQ in APS-C, and was already better than the 7D2. But this isn't an apples to apples comparison. The 7D2 is a flagship, robust, 10fps so on and so forth.

But the D500 is an apples to apples comparison. So some of the 7D2 apologists say there's a big price difference. Not really...the 7D2 released at $1,800 if I remember correctly. So $200 difference in initial price isn't that significant.

The only thing you can give the 7D2 is that it's older. That is true. 2 years older tech.


Canon would be wise to update the 7D2 using their new sensor technology. Better DR, better ISO and consider losing the AA filter. Maybe a few tweaks here and there - nothing major needed as the rest of the camera is top-notch. That would be worthy update and keep the 7D relevant.

Touch screen would be an upgrade. Doesn't have to be articulating, but a larger screen that is touch would be great. DPAF works best with that, and it would make sense to pair the two. OR...go the other way, dump the DPAF and go for all-out stills quality, maybe go to 22mp or 24 with better DR, ISO and no AA while keeping the speed.

I can't speak for anyone else, but I think DPAF is a waste without touch screen. I'm not really sure why they even added it to the 7D2. I've run the 7D2 side by side with the 70D - for video, the 70D dominates, not because of quality - the 7D2 has it beat on quality easily - but on ease of use and the ability to shoot video with.

People tend to get hung up on specs, and forget how important the usability is. You can have the world's best video recording quality, it is all lost if you cannot effectively and smoothly focus. You end up with very sharp video of blurry transitions.

For me, the 7D3 needs to dump the DPAF (if it doesn't have touch), and go for all out stills quality. The 80D is fine for amateur video. Anyone more serious than that is skipping APS-C and moving to FF anyway. 

It has the AF, it has the speed, the build quality and all the bells and whistles already. But it will get beatup on IQ in all comparisons going forward...and well, being that cameras are imaging products, image quality is the most important factor.

Waiting another 3 years to make this update will prove Canon to be archaic in their approach, and that they aren't changing their ways on DSLR development and release cycles. In 3 years, the IQ of the 7D2 will be further behind than the 7DI was of current tech before the release of the 7D2.


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## Alejandro (May 14, 2016)

March 2018 would be a reasonable date for the 7D3.

They still have to launch the 5D4, 6D2, T7i/T7s, 5D s/r 2.


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## ahsanford (May 16, 2016)

Alejandro said:


> March 2018 would be a reasonable date for the 7D3.
> 
> They still have to launch the 5D4, 6D2, T7i/T7s, 5D s/r 2.



I'd drop Rebels from that list as they -- like EOS-M -- do not poach business from the major lines. I see Rebels and EOS-M just sort of 'happening' at regular intervals alongside the big boys.

But I'd also throw in a *new* camera line altogether as potential monkey wrench for those wanting a 7D3 faster. The 6D and 5DS lines are recent phenomena, and Canon is known to drop in a surprise from time to time, like the SL1, the astro rigs, the 1D C, etc.

In the next few years, it's not unreasonable to say that a FF mirrorless (or a very high end APS-C offering), FF SLR for astro, or a high MP 1D gripped studio rig might be announced. Those would certainly shuffle the deck timing wise for the next 7D.

- A


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## moreorless (May 18, 2016)

K said:


> Early examples and tests show that the D500 IQ is noticeably better than the 7D2. That is saying something, given that Canon glass is better. That indicates to me that Nikon's sensor is better, and is making up for it quite a bit. Much like how the 5D3 was holding even with the D810 because of superior L glass, despite the significant megapixel disadvantage.



I don't see much evidence of this supposed great advantage in Canon lenses personally, I'm sure there are some examples there their superior but also likely some where their inferior.

I could potentially see a faster update to the 7D line now though I'd agree. I think the 7D2 and the D500 are really fundamentally different cameras to the 7D and the D300, more specialist action photography tools and as such keeping them at the forefront of performance is probably more important.


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## jeffa4444 (May 18, 2016)

We often take stills lenses and remount them for specialist cinematography use (sometimes adding or replacing certain elements). Both Nikon & Canon have lenses that are very good and consistant and others that whilst they wear a L red ring are not so good on the Canon side. Often lenses of the same type vary and we return those that dont cut it to the manufacturers or dealers. 
The 7D MKII had the market pretty much to itself as did the MK1 before it. The Nikon D500 will change the game and with it Canon will need to revise quicker. 

Some say that Canon has too many cameras in its range but Sony are maintaining their first three R series cameras along side the three new ones an in the UK and are running ads showing all six full frame cameras together. Ive long held the view Canon can add a camera to either sit above the 6D or sit below it if they move the 6D MKII to compete with Nikon D750 and still maintain the 5D MKIV sales niche models are all the rage these days.


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