# 400 f/2.8L II IS on sunny days and white jerseys



## bdunbar79 (Sep 24, 2014)

Has anyone noticed a decrease in AF accuracy on bright sunny days where your team is wearing white jerseys. I am often disappointed in the keeper rate in these situations where the camera/lens seems to focus nowhere in particular even though it says you've locked on the player. I noticed it seems to be worse with the 400 than with the 300 I used to own. Does the bright white fool the AF system? Just wondering if anyone else had some of these troubles over time. Sunday the soccer game was at 1pm and it was particularly bad. I post an example: 1st frame shows the blurry jersey and face, 2nd is better. 3rd frame I can't figure out but the "brightness" made the AF jumpy I recall. I didn't keep any of these for submission obviously.

Thanks!


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## Dylan777 (Sep 25, 2014)

I don't recall running into this issue yet. Have you call Canon yet?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 25, 2014)

If you are focusing on a white jersey, and have spot AF set on the body, the lack of contrast will make AF struggle. A 300mm might be seeing more of the subject and give more detail to work with.


I might be way off here, since you provided little info about the settings or focus points.


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## TexPhoto (Sep 25, 2014)

I am guessing you are shooting with a 1DX, and I think that might be more the issue. It is certainly possible the AF sensor is just blown out and can't see the contrast. I shoot 1D4 and a 400 f2.8 IS I, but I have never had a chance to shoot in bright sunlight. 

Maybe run some tests with an ND filter? Crumpled white T-shirt in the back yard.


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## bdunbar79 (Sep 25, 2014)

Thanks guys. I was using single point AF and wasn't using spot point. I noticed this doesn't happen at night games or lower light games. Only when it's bright and sunny like from 11am to 4pm. Thanks for the ideas.


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## mackguyver (Sep 25, 2014)

I have noticed that somewhat on the 5DIII or 1D X, and I generally use all AF points with a pre-selected point in AI Servo for those kinds of shots. I have noticed that the AF has a bit more trouble locking on white, and staying locked on white (see missed focus (front focused) sample below during a tracking shot - this is frame 5 or 6 I think). It looks like there's very little contrast in the white shirt which might be throwing it off as the others said. Also, I wonder if the iTR color tracking is thrown off by the lack of color. 

My solution has been to try to focus lock on the face and track from there. Orientation-linked spot metering works very well in combination with a lock on the face, too.


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## bdunbar79 (Oct 19, 2014)

Quick example. Here's another game that started at 1pm. I had the AF point locked on her face; this is frame 3. Notice the ref's face on the far right, so this front-focused.


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## bdunbar79 (Oct 19, 2014)

And then it just got worse.


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## Skulker (Oct 19, 2014)

I've not had this problem, I don't tend to shoot sports, but I often use the expanded AF selection. Would this help maybe? It might just help if the problem is to little contrast on the white. Maybe a polarizing filter would help.


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## bdunbar79 (Oct 19, 2014)

Skulker said:


> I've not had this problem, I don't tend to shoot sports, but I often use the expanded AF selection. Would this help maybe? It might just help if the problem is to little contrast on the white. Maybe a polarizing filter would help.



Yeah I'm not sure. Before when I was shooting sports I was using a 300 f/2.8L I IS and so therefore I was closer to the subject. This is worse as the distance from me to subject increases as well so it could just be the 300 had more contrast to detect. Either way, I missed a lot of shots and I'm at least going to have Canon check it out as I'm sending it in tomorrow. 

We'll see. Thanks.


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## instaimage (Oct 20, 2014)

Yes! It's amazing the timeliness of your post! My shoot yesterday was a mess... 1DX & 400 2.8 II... white jerseys... I also have a local friend that's been complaining about the same thing. She sent her X into Canon, as always they are insanely vague as to what they've done and/or are doing and then send it back with more vagueness... 

We tend to be having more of an issue with bursts not having all four or five images sharp. I have the newer 400, she has the older, we're both feeling like we're not getting good consistent focus. The team I shoot the most of is predominantly white at home for soccer but for football they wear royal and I don't seem to have as much issue at night under the crappy lights... yesterday during the day (11 am and 1 pm games) I had fits with the AF tracking and locking for an entire burst....

I'm planning on calling CPS but I'm gathering they're just going to tell me to adjust the 1st Image Priority and the 2nd Image Priority to focus instead of release... which is just "corporating up" to me... slow my camera down so it can keep up... that's not why I have as many X's as I do...

I've been shooting on the 4 additional assist points, I move the Cases around generally between 1 and 4 but have even tried 2 and 6 to try to get it to work "better"... it's very frustrating!



bdunbar79 said:


> Has anyone noticed a decrease in AF accuracy on bright sunny days where your team is wearing white jerseys. I am often disappointed in the keeper rate in these situations where the camera/lens seems to focus nowhere in particular even though it says you've locked on the player. I noticed it seems to be worse with the 400 than with the 300 I used to own. Does the bright white fool the AF system? Just wondering if anyone else had some of these troubles over time. Sunday the soccer game was at 1pm and it was particularly bad. I post an example: 1st frame shows the blurry jersey and face, 2nd is better. 3rd frame I can't figure out but the "brightness" made the AF jumpy I recall. I didn't keep any of these for submission obviously.
> 
> Thanks!


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## instaimage (Oct 20, 2014)

Please post back here with what Canon comes up with.

I've also sent an email to a Canon fella I met at a Canon Workshop, I'm hoping he might be able to shed some light on things...



bdunbar79 said:


> Skulker said:
> 
> 
> > I've not had this problem, I don't tend to shoot sports, but I often use the expanded AF selection. Would this help maybe? It might just help if the problem is to little contrast on the white. Maybe a polarizing filter would help.
> ...


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## bdunbar79 (Oct 20, 2014)

I will let you know what happens!

Frustrated? Yes. It seems it front focuses but not that deep. I went from f/3.2 to f/5 and it was much less noticeable. My guess is the wide aperture and iTR metering of the 1Dx are both contributing because this is not a problem at night.


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## risc32 (Oct 20, 2014)

I would think the first couple shots have plenty of contrast for the AF. I can only guess the size of the AF point in those shots, but the girl in white has dark lettering, so that should be good, and if you had the AF sensor a little left it would see the white jersey against that black jersey and that could hardly get any better. those should have hit. The others are purple or that goalie shot, and i would think the camera sees those as very different than a the first two. You said that it's front focusing. maybe i've cocked up my terms but from my wife's laptop it looks like that ref is in focus and that he is further away than the girl in purple, so wouldn't that be back focusing? either way there isn't anyone anywhere near close enough to confuse the AF, and that looks like a problem. It would be interesting to see if a ND filter improved the situation. not that you should have to do something like that with the awesome gear you have. I hope someone is able to nail this down for you.
And most importantly, just drove past ODU this morning.


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## old-pr-pix (Oct 20, 2014)

I always check the grass in such shots and use it as reference. First shots you posted seem front focused - grass in front of the ball and subject is in sharpest focus. In the examples w/ref on right side it seems they are back focused - grass behind the ball and subject is in sharpest focus. Right foot of ref is just about in plane with sharpest focus, his face is enough behind that plane that it is starting to get soft. Razor thin DOF isn't helping at all. Good luck getting resolution... let us know what you find out.


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## bdunbar79 (Oct 20, 2014)

Yes thank you, combo of front and back focusing.


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## bdunbar79 (Oct 20, 2014)

Thank you guys.

I called CPS and they want to see the lens only. I mentioned maybe it's a camera/lens combo and he seemed to only want to see the lens. So I'm sending that out today at noon and I am curious to see what they say. 

I will keep you posted.


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## risc32 (Oct 20, 2014)

when i got my 300mm2.8 i used it with my 40d and 5d. I wasn't really that pleased with it. It never really seemed to be in focus, except under one condition. If i was using my 5d and shooting right up close to the minimum focusing distance even at 2.8 it was very good. I have no explanation for how that could be, i would think that would be very tough for the AF, but somehow it did very well. i took many photos of my kids this way and depending on the lighting i can see my reflection in their pupils. anyway, I sent it to canon for a checkup along with a cd with images as per their request. i got my lens back with a vague description of what they did and an invoice for something like 200$. If it was better i couldn't tell. fast forward to when i got my 5dmk3. that fixed it. 
good luck man!


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## bdunbar79 (Oct 20, 2014)

Agreed on f-stop, but my shutter speed was 1/3200 to 1/4000.


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## awinphoto (Oct 20, 2014)

You know what? While i hate to see equipment struggle like this it's hard to determine the issue on a forum. If you would mail me your lens for a few weeks, i would be glad to test it out and give you a detailed report afterwards. =)


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## instaimage (Oct 20, 2014)

Jackson_Bill said:


> As someone else mentioned - that's a thin line of focus, too. On a sunny day you should be able to get away with a higher f-stop.



The point of owning and shooting a 400 2.8 is to shoot it at 2.8... yes, you CAN get away with a greater depth of field in daylight... but that's defeating the purpose of shooting sports with long fast glass. There's good reason to have shallow depth of field shooting sports (and a whole heap of other things as well...).

Keep us posted what Canon offers in the way of info.


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## bdunbar79 (Oct 25, 2014)

Received the lens from Canon today and..........................

The paperwork states the following:

Your product has been examined and it was found that the adjustment of the AF assembly was incorrect causing inaccurate focus. Electrical adjustments were carried out on the AF assembly. Product functions were confirmed.

???


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## Dylan777 (Oct 26, 2014)

bdunbar79 said:


> Received the lens from Canon today and..........................
> 
> The paperwork states the following:
> 
> ...



let us know how it turns out after Canon service


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## Northstar (Dec 10, 2014)

What happened Bdun? Is the lens good now?


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## Methodical (Dec 24, 2014)

Ahh man. I read all of this and the OP did not provide any feedback on whether or not the lens has been fixed. OP 4k+ viewers are interested in the results. ;D


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## bdunbar79 (Jan 3, 2015)

Well, to be honest with you guys, I'm not sure. I haven't had any events where I've needed it yet :-[

On the other hand I have a later development. I noticed with the SAME camera my 70-200 f/2.8L II IS lens has been front-focusing in basketball. Could be a problem with the camera and that is on its way to Canon.

I shot some night soccer with the 400 lens after I got it back and it worked fine; had no focus errors but that wasn't in bright sunny light where I had had trouble. 

Now though, it could have been the camera all along. We'll see, the story continues.

By the way, I have a 2nd 1Dx where I keep the other lens but upon trying both cameras, the front-focusing problems have all been on the one particular camera.


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