# Canon EOS 6D test data and further impressions on DPreview



## Freelancer (Jan 17, 2013)

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2013/01/17/Just-posted-extended-preview-with-full-test-data-and-analysis



> We've now spent enough time shooting with the EOS 6D to form a reasonable first impression, and as you'd expect it seems like a very competent camera indeed. It's solidly constructed yet lightweight for a full frame model, and feels great in your hand. Anyone coming from an APS-C SLR will particularly appreciate the large, bright and clear viewfinder that's a characteristic of all full frame models. Set to its 'silent' drive mode the 6D is also wonderfully quiet and discreet - great if you don't want to draw attention to yourself while shooting.
> 
> The 6D uses much the same control layout and user interface as other Canon SLRs, which has been refined over successive generation to the point where it works extremely well. Most of the key controls are within easy reach of your right forefinger or thumb, including an array of buttons that give direct access to key settings such as ISO, metering mode, and drive mode. In concert with Canon's well-implemented 'Q' menu, this means you can change a huge array of options without moving your hands from the shooting position.
> 
> ...


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## tortilla (Jan 18, 2013)

I don't want to sound like a canon fanboy, but IQ doesn't seem to be worse than that of the D600 at all. Even the low tone values in the shadows are on the same level with the nikon. So how did the D600 get the reputation of its high dynamic range?


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## ashmadux (Jan 18, 2013)

from the dxo mark data. they judge cameras solely on the sensor ability alone.

and dpreview is getting killed on this cameras still lack of a review- they are really in a tough spot with the latest review of all major photo sites- and they are supposed to be the big review boys. the forums over there, is not pretty.


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## David Hull (Jan 18, 2013)

tortilla said:


> I don't want to sound like a canon fanboy, but IQ doesn't seem to be worse than that of the D600 at all. Even the low tone values in the shadows are on the same level with the nikon. So how did the D600 get the reputation of its high dynamic range?



The term "IQ" is probably the most misused term on photography forums. The DR reputation comes from specific testing done to measure the DR of the camera by DxO (and others). The results are valid, the DR is indeed there but it does not always show up in actual photographs. If you want to see the effect of the DR in a real photograph, you will need a scenario specifically set up to demonstrate the DR differences. There are plenty of them out there and I am sure now that the question has been broached (again) the measurebator crowd will be more than happy to oblige with ample examples.

In a typical photo, of the type you will see in the DPR reviews, what you will see (or more correctly "measure" since it is difficult to see) is about 4 times the noise in the very deep shadows which may or may not be noticeable depending on the scene and what you are trying to do with it. The so-called DR “limitation” is significantly over hyped.


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## tortilla (Jan 18, 2013)

David Hull said:


> The DR reputation comes from specific testing done to measure the DR of the camera by DxO (and others). The results are valid, the DR is indeed there but it does not always show up in actual photographs. If you want to see the effect of the DR in a real photograph, you will need a scenario specifically set up to demonstrate the DR differences. There are plenty of them out there and I am sure now that the question has been broached (again) the measurebator crowd will be more than happy to oblige with ample examples.



I would be happy if someone would do so, because up to now I haven't seen test images that let me compare D600 and 6D regarding dynamic range _and _resolution at the same time (aside from the new dpreview images).

As for DxO: I'am convinced they indeed found that the D600 has less noise in lower tone levels - but what about resolution there? I'm afraid that the raw data might be denoised in camera just to get good sensor test results.


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## beansauce (Jan 18, 2013)

The 6D is the "almost, but not quite" camera... maybe, just maybe canon will get its act together and release an API for devs to improve in the area where Canon has failed so miserably at, and that's the iOS app that doesn't even scale to the iPhone screen. It sucks, and sucks terribly.

Shame on Canon for omitting an integrated intervalometer, full raw or jpeg transfer to iPad, and video control. Such features would give the 6D more appeal than the lackluster appeal it already struggles to get. Canon's marketing department clearly smashed the hands of the software team from including such useful features.... sad, so sad to see the hardware capabilities of the 6D limited to what it is. O, wait! maybe we'll see a "legendary" firmware update that Canon loves to pimp as a new feature!


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## David Hull (Jan 18, 2013)

tortilla said:


> David Hull said:
> 
> 
> > The DR reputation comes from specific testing done to measure the DR of the camera by DxO (and others). The results are valid, the DR is indeed there but it does not always show up in actual photographs. If you want to see the effect of the DR in a real photograph, you will need a scenario specifically set up to demonstrate the DR differences. There are plenty of them out there and I am sure now that the question has been broached (again) the measurebator crowd will be more than happy to oblige with ample examples.
> ...



I haven't seen anyone post this sort of thing yet for the 6D/D600 pair but the results will not differ substantially from the 5DIII/D800 in the DR department. One of the better summaries in this regard was this one (it has been kicked around a lot – I would be surprised if you haven’t seen it before): 

http://www.fredmiranda.com/5DIII-D800/index.html

You will have to formulate your own opinion as to whether the use case described in the “controlled test ” section has any bearing on the sorts of things you want to do or not. Part one demonstrates that the 5DIII is more than capable of producing a compelling image even in conditions with pretty demanding DR. My point is that he took these things to Yosemite (well-known as a very demanding photographic environment) and was not able to break the camera from a DR perspective – he had to concoct a special test to do that. However, you can break it if you take the time to set up a very demanding scenario.


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## serendipidy (Jan 19, 2013)

Who cares about DR...we now have HDR ;D


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## Sporgon (Jan 19, 2013)

Mikael Risedal said:


> tortilla said:
> 
> 
> > I don't want to sound like a canon fanboy, but IQ doesn't seem to be worse than that of the D600 at all. Even the low tone values in the shadows are on the same level with the nikon. So how did the D600 get the reputation of its high dynamic range?
> ...



Yes but this is DxO mark data is it not ? DPR use Stouffer step I believe and have never shown the vast difference between the Sony chip and Canon that DxO report. 

I've never had a problem with DR on the 5D Mk 1 and 2 but I do find that the default contrast is way too high on Canon, and unless set right back in picture style starts you off with harsh contrast in RAW. Something that DPR pointed out in their original review of the mk1 in 2005. 

I certainly find DPR's results much closer to reality than DxO. 

I see that there are quite a few D800s coming on the second hand market now as users find the 36mp sensor with no reduction facility in RAW is a pain in the a***. I think I'll pick one up cheap, use one of my old Nikkor manual lenses on it, and test this DR for myself.


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## tortilla (Jan 19, 2013)

David Hull said:


> I haven't seen anyone post this sort of thing yet for the 6D/D600 pair but the results will not differ substantially from the 5DIII/D800 in the DR department. One of the better summaries in this regard was this one (it has been kicked around a lot – I would be surprised if you haven’t seen it before):
> 
> http://www.fredmiranda.com/5DIII-D800/index.html


Thanks, seems like that the D800 has a way better sensor (for my needs), even though the differences will propably not be that huge after post processing. Still, I have again this feeling that Nikon might denoise the raw dara in camera. If this was true, it would mean that the D800 could be even better, if it would allow more noise in raw and leave the denoising to me in post processing.

Anyway, regarding the D600 vs 6d it's still an open race for me, since the D600 doen't have this huge resolution advantage like the D800.


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## oscaroo (Jan 19, 2013)

I don't know why people keep bashing the 6d with "stupid" comments such as: "Wifi and GPS is useless", and "one AF point sucks arse".

Really, people, stop comparing the size of your ... spec sheet.
The horizontal and vertical only AF points really only matter to things such as architecture, or where there are clearly defined lines. They'll still AF on someone's face, or clothes, maybe a bit slower.

GPS is super useful when going bushwalking, exploring with the family, or on an epic overseas journey. It doesn't suck heaps of battery, maybe 1% an hour. It geotags pics and keeps a log on the camera that you can view later.

Wifi is super useful! Today I did a studio shoot of some family photos, their first question after a photo is taken, "Can I see the photo?" ... My answer: Why yes! Yes you can! Here's a monitor plugged to my laptop that is using my phone as a hotspot so I can remotely download pics to my laptop and for you to preview! Tadaa! take a pic, and voila! on monitor. Each time!

Wifi is super useful, group photo on new years eve with friends, set camera on tripod, aim roughly, check on phone everyone's okay and press the shoot button while the phone is behind my back. Easy! I've been wanting this feature for almost a decade. 

Sure! The phone app is a bit slow at times, and the features are limited. But seriously guys! You're photographers! Throw your camera on M and the phone app has all the basic things. If you need more fancy features then just use a laptop.

For those iApple people, get a real computer. You can't expect to use a "Consumer" device such as an iShit (i'm really anti Apple, sorry) or a android tablet (also a crappy thingo) to be used for anything other than viewing lolcats. If you use your tablet/phone for tethered shooting, say byebye to battery life on your phone.

And! For all the above features, you save a wad of cash! Yay!

I agree that for sports, or motion stuff then 1(1) AF point sucks, and the more the merrier, but for just static photos of peoples, buildings, etc, then 1(1) AF point is great.

For the guy having a cry about not having an intervalometer ... dude .. just get magic lantern.

I would rather buy a Canon 1100D with Magic Lantern than any other DSLR out there w/o magic lantern.
I can't wait till magic lantern comes out on the 6d. They've already started porting! If you don't know what magic lantern is, go find out. It's totes worth it.

As for the resolution thingos? Come on guys, how many of us have ACTUALLY printed stuff at A2? 5 Megapixels is all I generally give my customers/friends. I'll take a 20MP raw and stash it somewhere just in case.

I would love to see the day people stop complaining and wishing they had more, when really, if you want more, just throw more money and upgrade. And if the more that you want isn't available, be creative and play with the tools you have. 

Sorry, for the rant, but I'm sick of people saying bad stuff about the 6d when really, it's features kickarse and are unique.


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## oscaroo (Jan 19, 2013)

oscaroo said:


> it's



Dang! I meant "its"


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## David Hull (Jan 20, 2013)

tortilla said:


> David Hull said:
> 
> 
> > I haven't seen anyone post this sort of thing yet for the 6D/D600 pair but the results will not differ substantially from the 5DIII/D800 in the DR department. One of the better summaries in this regard was this one (it has been kicked around a lot – I would be surprised if you haven’t seen it before):
> ...



The DR difference gets a lot of hype way, way, more than is justified considering the relatively narrow range of image cases that it really brings benefit to. For all that is said, the biggest benefit is obtained with an ISO setting of 100 -- as you move off of that, the benefit diminishes. For typical photography (when shot at ISO=100) there will be about 4 times as much random noise (as a similar Sony based camera) in the deep shadows. For the same shot taken at ISO=200 there will be twice as much noise (again only in the deep shadows). The biggest issue, though, is the nonrandom or patterned noise but this has been significantly reduced in the 6D (even better than the 5DIII supposedly although not nearly as good as the Nikon). Once again, the place you will see this is in the deepest shadows. This is why the so-called “dramatically better DR” is not usually seen in your typical review photograph. If it were as bad as all the hype would like you to believe, nobody would buy the equipment.


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## Marsu42 (Jan 20, 2013)

oscaroo said:


> The horizontal and vertical only AF points really only matter to things such as architecture, or where there are clearly defined lines.



I don't think so, it also matters on low-contrast surfaces - and often non-architectural scenes also have clearly defined lines, I know because I've shot for a long time with the non-crosstype sensors in the analog days.



oscaroo said:


> GPS is super useful when going bushwalking, exploring with the family, or on an epic overseas journey.



... but a dedicated tracker uses much less battery esp. at faster update intervals than 5min, is most probably more precise and keeps on logging in your breast pocket even if the camera is safely buried in the case.



oscaroo said:


> Wifi is super useful!



Wifi is useful for remote control as you wrote as well for shooting shy animals, but for picture viewing I never found it too inconvenient to put the sd card into my computer 



oscaroo said:


> And! For all the above features, you save a wad of cash! Yay!



There's a famous saying of the former mayor of my hometown Berlin (Germany, that is): "_You cannot save by not spending money you don't have"_ (rough translation).

The 6d is a ~2000€ camera body, I'd not expect some nice features from it but top performance - and here Canon unfortunately disappoints. Which won't hinder me from buying one if the price drops further, but I'm not going to sugarcoat it.


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## bigmag13 (Jan 20, 2013)

oscaroo said:


> Wifi is super useful! Today I did a studio shoot of some family photos, their first question after a photo is taken, "Can I see the photo?" ... My answer: Why yes! Yes you can! Here's a monitor plugged to my laptop that is using my phone as a hotspot so I can remotely download pics to my laptop and for you to preview! Tadaa! take a pic, and voila! on monitor. Each time!
> 
> Wifi is super useful, group photo on new years eve with friends, set camera on tripod, aim roughly, check on phone everyone's okay and press the shoot button while the phone is behind my back. Easy! I've been wanting this feature for almost a decade.
> 
> Sure! The phone app is a bit slow at times, and the features are limited. But seriously guys! You're photographers! Throw your camera on M and the phone app has all the basic things. If you need more fancy features then just use a laptop.



I just plug an old router into the wall when I use my laptop and it makes my eye-fi card way faster than any phone could as a hotspot. this is a good alt if when shooting your plunged into the wall anyways.

this wortks for me "the iphone user" lol


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## tortilla (Jan 20, 2013)

David Hull said:


> The DR difference gets a lot of hype way, way, more than is justified considering the relatively narrow range of image cases that it really brings benefit to.



Sure, if I would only do studio work with controlled lighting I wouldn't care. But when doing architecure and landscape I quite often loose details in the shadows or even have to overexposure (even at ISO 100).

If DR is a hype than resolution and sensor size are overhyped too. Maybe they really are - but I'm a pixelpeeper and love details in larger prints.


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## Sporgon (Jan 20, 2013)

The whole 6D vs D600 / 5D vs D800 debate seems to _mainly_ centre around dynamic range. 

Perhaps someone can explain the following to me:

Before the introduction of the 5D mk3 in UK, you could not find a second hand 5D mk2 for love nor money. If there was one it quickly sold for the new price less tax.

Similarly second hand D700 were scarce untill introduction of D800, and again sold for new price less tax. 

Now I see the second hand market is littered with D800s, but try and find a used 5D mk3. If the DR of the Sony chip is so obviously superior why is the market showing discarded D800s ?


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## Woody (Jan 20, 2013)

Mikael Risedal said:


> DR is not a hype it is a fact and it needs skills to use it , no one will have less DR or a lens with lower resolution
> Hello, can I have a 300/2.8 MK3 IS with lower resolution- please



While I will also like to see marked improvements in low ISO DR from Canon, Panasonic and Samsung sensors, I do not harp on it like it's the only thing that matters in life.

I seriously what's gonna happen to you when the above manufacturers finally match the low ISO DR of Sony sensors? Will you lose your purpose in life?


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## Kernuak (Jan 20, 2013)

Freelancer said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > Now I see the second hand market is littered with D800s, but try and find a used 5D mk3. If the DR of the Sony chip is so obviously superior why is the market showing discarded D800s ?
> ...


Before jumping to conclusions, you might want to check a poster's location . There are actually no 5D MkIIIs available on eBay in the UK, compared to 7 D800s.


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## Sporgon (Jan 20, 2013)

Kernuak said:


> Freelancer said:
> 
> 
> > Sporgon said:
> ...



@Kernuak, thanks for the support with that one 

I _could_ have responded by stating that the last thing I pulled out of my nose strongly resembled the perpetrator of such an insult, but as the vast majority of CR posters have much more decorum than this I shall resist.


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## Kernuak (Jan 20, 2013)

Freelancer said:


> Kernuak said:
> 
> 
> > Freelancer said:
> ...


I didn't say he/she didn't jump to conclusions, the difference was the insult, which quite frankly was unnecessary. That's the thing with the internet, it's far too easy to insult someone without the risk of a broken nose .
As for the kit, it didn't come up in my search. While it could be argued it is described as new, other, one of the 7 D800s I found was described the same way.
The point is though, that going by a single market and/or selling portal doesn't always give a true reflection of relative numbers. My impression (without any real facts), is that the 5D MkIII has outsold the D800 in the UK, but that would appear not to be the case in other countries. One reason for the impression, is the number of 5D MkIIs and 7Ds that have come on the used market (not necessarily eBay).


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## David Hull (Jan 20, 2013)

Mikael Risedal said:


> DR is not a hype it is a fact and it needs skills to use it , no one will have less DR or a lens with lower resolution
> Hello, can I have a 300/2.8 MK3 IS with lower resolution- please



The DR itself is not hype; I never said that it was (read my post again). However, much of the discussion surrounding it definitely involves a lot of hype and tends to raise a lot of unnecessary FUD. What is a fact is this: With a few cameras, you will get two additional stops of noise performance in the deep shadows when you dial the gain in the camera to ISO=100. If noise is really your concern, you will always do better with a multi-shot approach, in cases where you can do so.

DR should be looked at as a feature, just like a 100% VF, In-body IS, Tilt screen, 61 point AF or any other of those things that you may be considering. You need to figure out where it benefits you and where it does not and then determine how much it is worth in any decision you may be making. It doesn't affect the general IQ of the camera (this is where the hype generally creeps in), just a small set of corner cases that may or may not be important to any given photographer.


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