# 6D Mark II



## duydaniel (Sep 19, 2013)

Since Nikon is releasing a D610
I bet Canon will release a 6D2 ;D

Any thoughts?


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## Janbo Makimbo (Sep 19, 2013)

Not for a while..... The 6D is still selling heaps..... Perhaps. New firmware could address a lot of issues, just like the one for the 7D did!!


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## Marsu42 (Sep 19, 2013)

duydaniel said:


> I bet Canon will release a 6D2 ;D Any thoughts?



The 6d is designed to make money for Canon, not to inspire awe and excitement. As everything about the 6d is budget they will keep lowering the price until their break/even point is reached, and only then replace it, and only after the 5d4 is here.

Imho the 6d has 2-3 years of life in it, it was never meant to outgun the Nikon d600 but offer a budget ff for people who want to or have to stay with Canon.

Btw the Nikon d610 is only an embarrasing bugfix for the d600's sensor problems, so actually that's one brownie point for Canon who for the lack of enthusiasm updated the 5d2 into a mature 6d product.


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## Janbo Makimbo (Sep 19, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> duydaniel said:
> 
> 
> > I bet Canon will release a 6D2 ;D Any thoughts?
> ...



I agree but lets not forget the slew of awards it has won in categories where the Nikon would have been considered!


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## Marsu42 (Sep 19, 2013)

Janbo Makimbo said:


> New firmware could address a lot of issues, just like the one for the 7D did!!



I Forgot to mention this: I don't expect any firmware feature updates for the 6d, actually I'd be surprised about any bugfixes at all since in the past they only graced their premium models (7d = premium crop, 5d2 = only ff then, 5d3 = premium ff now). People should not buy the 6d in the hope that something will be fixed, it is what it is.


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## Lichtgestalt (Sep 19, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> I Forgot to mention this: I don't expect any firmware feature updates for the 6d, actually I'd be surprised about any bugfixes at all since in the past they only graced their premium models (7d = premium crop, 5d2 = only ff then, 5d3 = premium ff now). People should not buy the 6d in the hope that something will be fixed, it is what it is.



what exactly needs to be "fixed"?


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## BrettS (Sep 19, 2013)

Lichtgestalt said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > I Forgot to mention this: I don't expect any firmware feature updates for the 6d, actually I'd be surprised about any bugfixes at all since in the past they only graced their premium models (7d = premium crop, 5d2 = only ff then, 5d3 = premium ff now). People should not buy the 6d in the hope that something will be fixed, it is what it is.
> ...



Gaining centre point f/8 AF would be fantastic. However, I tend to agree with Marsu42 that it probably won't be done.


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## Marsu42 (Sep 19, 2013)

Lichtgestalt said:


> what exactly needs to be "fixed"?



This comes to mind (ask me again when my 6d arrives )


Multipoint af servo not properly handing over focus from one point to the others, esp. not selecting the center point (CarlTN keeps mentioning this)
Braindead crippling that hdr source files cannot be saved
Crippled min. shutter in av (1/250s is the fastest? Canon, you gotta be joking! Hail to ML!)
Crippled feature -> button allocation vs. 5d3
GPS off on power down, auto-enable on power up


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## wsheldon (Sep 19, 2013)

Lichtgestalt said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > I Forgot to mention this: I don't expect any firmware feature updates for the 6d, actually I'd be surprised about any bugfixes at all since in the past they only graced their premium models (7d = premium crop, 5d2 = only ff then, 5d3 = premium ff now). People should not buy the 6d in the hope that something will be fixed, it is what it is.
> ...



A few refinements to the novel features for a start:
1. GPS auto-off (duh)
2. Wifi settings (still too fiddly to pair it to a device)

I'd also like a little more control of auto-iso when in Manual mode to support exposure comp, and 5-shot AEB for some HDR applications.

Nothing earth-shattering. It's been a great little camera for me in a wide variety of settings so far, and no hiccups to report.


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## ishdakuteb (Sep 20, 2013)

this is kinda funny chat (got it from nikon site)...


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## Marsu42 (Sep 20, 2013)

Janbo Makimbo said:


> what a silly response.......



I think this is uncalled for, if you don't mind me saying so...



Janbo Makimbo said:


> EOS M has had fixes as have many other 'non premium' models...



Yes, but only because the af was practically broken on delivery - I was talking of feature upgrades to stable products or fixes of smaller issues



Janbo Makimbo said:


> I think you will find that the 5D mkiii is not their premium FF either!!



It is for most people, the 1d line is another league alltogether



Janbo Makimbo said:


> There was a firmware update scheduled for June for the 6D which has been delayed.



Yeah, right, and pigs can fly :->


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## Janbo Makimbo (Sep 20, 2013)

http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/03/canon-eos-6d-firmware-by-june-cr1/


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## Marsu42 (Sep 20, 2013)

Janbo Makimbo said:


> http://www.canonrumors.com/2013/03/canon-eos-6d-firmware-by-june-cr1/



You seem to be new around here, a [CR1] is a wild guess - and the 6d receiving the af servo indicator even though the 5d3 hasn't gotten it? Now, now ....


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## Janbo Makimbo (Sep 20, 2013)

I may be new around here but i know the 5d Mkiii is not Canon's premium FF!!! its for 1DX wannabees!!!


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 20, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> Janbo Makimbo said:
> 
> 
> > EOS M has had fixes as have many other 'non premium' models...
> ...



The PowerShot S100 got a firmware update to fix minor issues. Just sayin'...


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## Marsu42 (Sep 20, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> The PowerShot S100 got a firmware update to fix minor issues. Just sayin'...



Ok, I wouldn't know about that - so I'll modify my statement to only include feature upgrades or fixes that could be counted as feature upgrades (like other min. shutter speeds for the 6d) :-o


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## Lichtgestalt (Sep 20, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> Lichtgestalt said:
> 
> 
> > what exactly needs to be "fixed"?
> ...



a lot of that are not fixes in my eyes. 
you could complain about missing features all day but that´s not the same as errors that need to be "fixed". 



> •Crippled feature -> button allocation vs. 5d3



how do you think canon can fix the button layout with firmware? lol




> Crippled min. shutter in av (1/250s is the fastest? Canon, you gotta be joking! Hail to ML!)[/



care to explain what you mean with that?

don´t say you believe, that when you shot in AV the 6D will not go to, lets say, 1/1000s if it needs to. then you believe a bad 1. april joke or some nikon troll.
but you are sure not that silly?!

anyway i really don´t understand what you mean with that and you may mean something entirely different?

but i can assure you the 6D shoots (like my 5D MK3) much faster and much slower then 1/250s in AV mode.


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## Janbo Makimbo (Sep 20, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > Janbo Makimbo said:
> ...



I dont think that was to fix focus like the 5d mkiii..... !!


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 20, 2013)

The D600 has come to have a bad reputation, and sales are reportedly very slow. When this happens, a manufacturer often releases a minor update, perhaps with fixes for the issues. Since the specifications are reportedly identical, it seems to be a cosmetic change, maybe even some internal redesign to make it cheaper to produce. Canon certainly does that on occasion.

The new model can thus accomplish several things.
1, Cheaper to build
2. It gets buyers that must have the latest model.
3. If the issues are fixed, it will have a good reputation.
4. It avoids having to issue a recall or service bulletin to fix the old model. (the official story is that the new one is improved rather than it fixes problems and is cheaper to build)


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 20, 2013)

Lichtgestalt said:


> > Crippled min. shutter in av (1/250s is the fastest? Canon, you gotta be joking! Hail to ML!)[/
> 
> 
> 
> ...



1/1000 s would be a _higher_ shutter speed than 1/250 s, which is the other direction from _minimum_. 

The scenario is you're shooting action in Av mode (yes, I know, why would anyone do that, but don't ask, mmmmkay?), and you don't want the camera to drop below a certain shutter speed needed to freeze that action. The 'Min shutter speed in Av' is quite useful for shooting people - in Av mode with Auto ISO, the default behavior is to drop the shutter speed to 1/FL (1/1.6xFL on APS-C), then start raising the ISO. With a wide lens, that means you might get 1/25 s shutter speeds and even 'still' people showing motion blur. 

But I think Canon's idea for the setting is shooting people (not action/sports), where 1/250 s is more than sufficient to freeze motion. Faster, you should be in Tv, or if you want to control DoF too, use M. Note that I'm saying that's Canon's idea, not mine. I do sometimes use the shutter speed restriction (different setting than min shutter in Av) on the 1D X to get a 1/500 s min shutter in Av mode. However, that's in a very specific scenario - shooting perched birds in dim light with the 600 II -/+ 1.4xIII, where I want the little bit lower ISO, and the IS means camera shake isn't an issue. But in general, I think 1/250 s is reasonable as a highest min shutter speed. 

OTOH, I do think there's a problem with the feature, in that it's either-or. Say you set a min shutter of 1/60 s, which is often enough to freeze typical random motions of people. Great for your 24-70, no blurry people. But if you put on a 200mm lens, it'll still drop the shutter to 1/60 s, and if your lens doesn't have IS, you'll get blur from camera shake instead. I think an implementation where it uses the min shutter setting or 1/FL, whichever is faster, would be better.


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## duydaniel (Sep 20, 2013)

6D2 with:
+ Dual sd slots
+ dual sensors like the 70D to focus live view
+ AA filter removed (optional)


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## x-vision (Sep 20, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> ... and only after the 5d4 is here.



+1

Canon cannot update the 6D in a meaningful way without stepping on the 5DIII's toes.
So, next in line for an update is definitely the 5DIII.

The 5DIV might get announced as early as next year, IMO.
Possibly in September before the Photokina show (??).
After that, the 5DIII and 5DIV will sell side by side for a while. 
And only after that the 6D will get updated. 
In the summer of 2015 the earliest, IMO.


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## ishdakuteb (Sep 20, 2013)

duydaniel said:


> 6D2 with:
> + dual sensors like the 70D to focus live view



umm.... did not know that 70d has dual sensors? it is kinda cheap with the current price if it does ;D just kidding, i think you are talking about dual pixel right? and i guess the answer is yes, canon will more likely put that new tech. into any dslr coming after 70d...


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## duydaniel (Sep 20, 2013)

ishdakuteb said:


> duydaniel said:
> 
> 
> > 6D2 with:
> ...



yep lol


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## batotman (Sep 20, 2013)

Would not expect it until 2016. But then we will plunge into 1000 years of darkness. Or Chuck Norris will die, one or the other.


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## Marsu42 (Sep 20, 2013)

Lichtgestalt said:


> > •Crippled feature -> button allocation vs. 5d3
> 
> 
> how do you think canon can fix the button layout with firmware? lol



rotfl  ... it's about *allocation* of functions to buttons like set or dof preview which leaves out some very obvious and potentially useful options for no apparent reason. 

As for *min* shutter speed please refer to neuro's explanation - yes, it might be designed for portraits and x-sync, but it further nails down the 6d as a non-action shooting camera because here you often need higher min (<- note this part ) speeds like 1/500 or 1/1000 ... I set these on my 60d with Magic Lantern.

Last not least, the difference between "broken by design" that can be "fixed" and just a missing feature certainly is subjective, I consider the firmware/software issued I mentioned as at least changeable with no big work on Canon's part.



x-vision said:


> And only after that the 6D will get updated. In the summer of 2015 the earliest, IMO.



... and then it might again start being hideously overpriced and you have to wait 3/4 of a year for a reasonable price just like the 6d now seems to have settled @1500€ with the 70 €1200€ ... so now is a good time to get a 6d, that's why I did it.


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## duydaniel (Sep 20, 2013)

Canon can fix buttons allocation by mass recall 5D3.
you have problem with that? :


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## Janbo Makimbo (Sep 20, 2013)

duydaniel said:


> ishdakuteb said:
> 
> 
> > duydaniel said:
> ...


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## learncanon (Sep 20, 2013)

This is my interpretation:

Since 6D is built close to 5Dm2 spec and 70D is built close to 7D spec except for a few minor differences, the 6Dmk2 would be built close to 5D3 while retaining its small size and multi-directional dial (whatever you call it). 5D4 would come first.


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## Janbo Makimbo (Sep 20, 2013)

learncanon said:


> This is my interpretation:
> 
> Since 6D is built close to 5Dm2 spec and 70D is built close to 7D spec except for a few minor differences, the 6Dmk2 would be built close to 5D3 while retaining its small size and multi-directional dial (whatever you call it). 5D4 would come first.


+1


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## Marsu42 (Sep 20, 2013)

learncanon said:


> the 6Dmk2 would be built close to 5D3 while retaining its small size and multi-directional dial (whatever you call it).



This sounds like Canon, and would make the 6d2 an excellent camera, just like the 70d (and unlike the 6d1...). 

But this is another reason why the 6d2 will take some time to arrive - with a 5d3-type camera you can do just about everything, so either Canon has to cripple the 6d2 (like video with extra moire, 20mb/s sd-card write speed, 1/2000s shutter, 50k shutter cycles :->) or raise the price or less people will get interested in the 5d4.


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## pedro (Sep 20, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> learncanon said:
> 
> 
> > the 6Dmk2 would be built close to 5D3 while retaining its small size and multi-directional dial (whatever you call it).
> ...



Canon may hardly dare to raise the price of the 5DIV. I guess the raise in price of the 5D3 was due to what was to follow: the 6D. In case of my 5D3 I am really looking forward to the 5D4. I won't be in the game for a purchase, but I am eager to see what will happen with ISO 25k and beyond high ISO IQ. Maybe some incremental improvements like 1/2 stop but this might give me us an ISO 25kish ISO 51k on the 5D5 in RAW... 8)


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## Lichtgestalt (Sep 20, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> Lichtgestalt said:
> 
> 
> > > Crippled min. shutter in av (1/250s is the fastest? Canon, you gotta be joking! Hail to ML!)[/
> ...



anyway, from his post i got the impression he means AV mode is per se not going _faster_ then 1/250s. 
my bad..

and i guess because i never used that option (what option is it?) i still don´t get it. 
what do i have to do exacly to see this limitation?
i shoot all day in AV and my shutterspeeds usually go from 0.8 seconds to 1/4000s.

i tested Auto ISO (what i normally never use) but even with that my shutterspeds are going slower then 1/250.... 1/80s or 1/25s... and they are goings faster 1/2000s etc.

edit: ok forget it i found it.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 20, 2013)

Lichtgestalt said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Lichtgestalt said:
> ...



Yes, 1/250 s is the *fastest setting* available for the Min shutter spd setting, which ranges from 1 s up to 1/250 s in full-stop increments. Regardless, it seems you now know he was referring to the 'Minimum shutter speed for Auto ISO' setting. 

On 1-series bodies, you can actually restrict the shutter speed to not go faster than 1/250 s, or any other speed up to 1/4000 s, if you choose; you can restrict aperture in the same way (useful to maintain a minimum DoF in Tv mode).


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## Lichtgestalt (Sep 20, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> Lichtgestalt said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



i found that option and now it makes sense, seeing it in action.
never used it before.

as i already guessed he meant something entirely different then i thought. 

normaly i have to fight the other direction.
that my shutterspeed goes not faster then the x-sync.

i can honestly say i never used Auto ISO since i have gone digital.


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## Marsu42 (Sep 20, 2013)

Lichtgestalt said:


> i can honestly say i never used Auto ISO since i have gone digital.



Opinions are divided on this, but imho auto iso is one of the primary advancements of the digital age, with today's cameras a couple of stops don't show (much) and you can either use m (though Canon lacks ec on m) or Av for changing lighting conditions - but for the latter you either need a 5d3/6d/1dx or Magic Lantern to set the min. shutter speed, or the Canon algorithm will go to low to shoot anything moving.


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## Lichtgestalt (Sep 20, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> Opinions are divided on this, but imho auto iso is one of the primary advancements of the digital age, with today's cameras a couple of stops don't show (much)



i do see the usefullness for some.

it´s just that i don´t need it.
in the studio i have plenty of light and i may be oldschool but i always try to take as much control as possible. 

i shoot mostly M in the studio but AV is nice too.

will give it a try for casual/snapshots.


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## x-vision (Sep 20, 2013)

learncanon said:


> the 6Dmk2 would be built close to 5D3 while retaining its small size and multi-directional dial (whatever you call it).



The problem with the 6D is that it was apparently conceived when the 5DIII specs were frozen.
So, not much breathing room for Canon to give it proper specs.

Going forward, I'm not sure that the 6DII will be build close to the 5DIII.
I do expect, though, that the 6DII will be properly differentiated from the 5DIV - without having to be crippled.

We'll see what happens. 
Body size (form factor in general) will surely remain a key differentiator between the two.


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## iaind (Sep 20, 2013)

Specs are always going to be less than current 5d series.

CPS membership lists it as a silver body ie non professional .


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## mackguyver (Sep 20, 2013)

For those of us who waited, and waited, and waited, (and mostly gave up waiting and bought a 5DII), on the 5DIII, I think you're in for a _*very *_long wait on the 6DII. FFs don't evolve as quickly and with the economic climate, a firmware update (like the 7D) is more likely in the next 2-3 years before you see a 6DII.


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## mkabi (Sep 24, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> Lichtgestalt said:
> 
> 
> > i can honestly say i never used Auto ISO since i have gone digital.
> ...



I have to agree with Lichtgestalt.

I think Auto ISO is for the lazy people or people that don't know anything about photography or video. Even with "today's" cameras... how do you let a camera's logic decide how much noise is acceptable in your pictures or video?

In my humble opinion, its like auto-white balance, you know you're a novice if you're still using auto-white balance.


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## sdsr (Sep 24, 2013)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> The D600 has come to have a bad reputation, and sales are reportedly very slow. When this happens, a manufacturer often releases a minor update, perhaps with fixes for the issues. Since the specifications are reportedly identical, it seems to be a cosmetic change, maybe even some internal redesign to make it cheaper to produce. Canon certainly does that on occasion.



I hope it's more than cosmetic and instead fixes the oil/dirt splatter problem which affects the sensors of so many D600s, even refurbished ones. If they fixed that, even if they didn't remove the drab green tint from the viewfinder (it would be unrealistic to expect them to ditch its typical Nikon ergonomics...) it would be a very appealing camera.


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## DRR (Sep 24, 2013)

mkabi said:


> In my humble opinion, its like auto-white balance, you know you're a novice if you're still using auto-white balance.



I don't use Auto ISO but I can't disagree more about Auto white balance. Many styles of shooting do not allow you the additional time it requires to set white balance. Similarly, the same types of shooting may have differing lighting conditions and temperatures. Shooting RAW enables you to have a great variance in white balance after the fact. So much so that it's practically unnecessary to set WB ahead of time.

Now I am not disparaging those who do - if you have the time and the inclination, please do so - but for me, the time I take to set WB makes absolutely no difference to the quality of the photograph because it's a fully reversible setting (unlike ISO.)


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## rs (Sep 24, 2013)

mkabi said:


> I think Auto ISO is for the lazy people or people that don't know anything about photography or video. Even with "today's" cameras... how do you let a camera's logic decide how much noise is acceptable in your pictures or video?
> 
> In my humble opinion, its like auto-white balance, you know you're a novice if you're still using auto-white balance.


If you shoot raw, setting the white balance during capture time is nothing more than a guide for the raw processor. No second guessing during the decisive moment can produce results as close to your desired look as PP with raw - ignore the WB setting at capture and setting it accurately using a calibrated monitor in controlled conditions.

I don't have meaningful auto ISO on any of my cameras, but I'd love to be able to have that option. The ability to directly control depth of field, have the shutter speed hang around the pre-programmed range I need to stop action, and let the camera control the ISO with me still having exposure compensation would transform my sports event shooting. Its a real pain to use Tv to control shutter speed, and continually move the ISO around to gain indirect DoF control.

As you implied using auto settings is a sign of being a novice, I presume you're not shooting jpeg - so why care about controlling WB in camera when you have _full_ control after the event?


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## unfocused (Sep 24, 2013)

mackguyver said:


> For those of us who waited, and waited, and waited, (and mostly gave up waiting and bought a 5DII), on the 5DIII, I think you're in for a _*very *_long wait on the 6DII. FFs don't evolve as quickly and with the economic climate, a firmware update (like the 7D) is more likely in the next 2-3 years before you see a 6DII.



Not sure I agree with that. The 6D is basically a full frame version of a 60/70D and Canon tends to have shorter refresh cycles at the lower end. Of course, since the 6D is the first in the series, no one knows for sure, but I can certainly see Canon deciding to refresh it before they refresh the 5DIII. There is a sufficiently large gap in features between the 5DIII and 6D to allow for small improvements without significantly affecting sales of the 5DIII. Add the 70D's on-sensor focusing, add a few more autofocus points, maybe improve the weather-sealing slightly, GPS or other bells and whistles and call it good. 



mkabi said:


> In my humble opinion, its like auto-white balance, you know you're a novice if you're still using auto-white balance.



So that's what makes someone a novice? I would think that more novices shoot in JPG and need to adjust the white balance than those who shoot in RAW and generally don't need to worry about the white balance selected by the camera. (Sorry for basically duplicating the comments of others. I see several replies came in while I was typing).


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## bereninga (Sep 24, 2013)

mkabi said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > Lichtgestalt said:
> ...



This is seriously just a troll post. Only a novice in digital thinks that you have to set your white balance. Shoot RAW and you don't even have to think about it until PP.

And Auto-ISO is helpful when the light conditions change drastically in a short amount of time and you don't want to miss some good opportunities for good shots.

As a 6D owner, I think the AF points is the only thing that I would change. One cross-type is pretty ridiculous. Even the T4i, announced in June 2012, had 9 cross-type AF points! There's no way the 6DII would omit a new AF system. But I agree it will be 2-3 years until it shows up. It has the IQ of the 5DIII and you save a lot more money. IQ is a top priority.


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## Janbo Makimbo (Sep 24, 2013)

They wont replace it while it is outselling its bigger brothers!!


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## Botts (Sep 24, 2013)

mkabi said:


> I have to agree with Lichtgestalt.
> 
> I think Auto ISO is for the lazy people or people that don't know anything about photography or video. Even with "today's" cameras... how do you let a camera's logic decide how much noise is acceptable in your pictures or video?
> 
> In my humble opinion, its like auto-white balance, you know you're a novice if you're still using auto-white balance.



Really? I don't think I've turned off AWB since I got my 6D!

If you shoot RAW, I don't see the value of taking the time to set AWB. Just do it as a batch in post!


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## duydaniel (Sep 24, 2013)

D610 is coming very soon with probably the new expeed 4 chip.
Canon should respond


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## Marsu42 (Sep 24, 2013)

duydaniel said:


> D610 is coming very soon with probably the new expeed 4 chip. Canon should respond



Nah, Nikon will probably find another bug in the d610 and release the d620 soon, Canon should wait for that


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## Botts (Sep 24, 2013)

I think the assumption that a 6D poaching 5D3 sales is a bad thing may be misplaced.

To make this assumption, you'd have to know the profit margin of each, and total adoption rates.

If the 6D was for all intents and purposes a 5D3 for example, and retailed for $1,500, you may sell 3-4x as many as you would with a crippled 6D and 5D3. This would likely make up for the difference in profit margin.

This may not be in the Canon culture, but everyone thought that about Apple as well with the iPad mini. Now the iPad mini way outsells the iPad, and likely increased total revenue and profits for Apple. Maybe Canon should do the same.

I think Canon could also have the entire video community adopt their cameras if they simply stole what MagicLantern has working and built it in to factory firmware.


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## Janbo Makimbo (Sep 25, 2013)

Botts said:


> I think the assumption that a 6D poaching 5D3 sales is a bad thing may be misplaced.
> 
> To make this assumption, you'd have to know the profit margin of each, and total adoption rates.
> 
> ...


Of course you would want to sell 3 or 4 times more 6Ds as you will then sell 3 or 4 times more lens !!


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## mkabi (Sep 25, 2013)

bereninga said:


> mkabi said:
> 
> 
> > Marsu42 said:
> ...



Why is it that someone is a troll the minute that one person does not have the same thought as the next. I think you're a troll cause you don't agree with me (yeah.... it sounds as stupid as it sounds to me too).

So lightroom has the ability to correct your mistakes, but don't you want to correct your mistake before making the mistake? 

Now, we all make mistakes.... but, rhetorically... How about setting the white balance and even if it is good for one shot, but not good for another shot, then using lightroom? Come on... go outside your comfort zone.


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## madmailman (Sep 25, 2013)

mkabi said:


> Why is it that someone is a troll the minute that one person does not have the same thought as the next. I think you're a troll cause you don't agree with me (yeah.... it sounds as stupid as it sounds to me too).
> 
> So lightroom has the ability to correct your mistakes, but don't you want to correct your mistake before making the mistake?
> 
> Now, we all make mistakes.... but, rhetorically... How about setting the white balance and even if it is good for one shot, but not good for another shot, then using lightroom? Come on... go outside your comfort zone.



I think what the other guys are saying is just use AWB and shoot in RAW and then there is no "mistake" you are just waiting until PP to actual make your choice of WB. Auto WB just means you'll make your choice later and at trigger time you can worry about things that can't be changed later. No trolling.


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## Marsu42 (Sep 25, 2013)

madmailman said:


> I think what the other guys are saying is just use AWB and shoot in RAW and then there is no "mistake" you are just waiting until PP to actual make your choice of WB. Auto WB just means you'll make your choice later and at trigger time you can worry about things that can't be changed later.



My thinking exactly - though it really doesn't hurt to know about color temperature and to be *able* to set wb manually if quick jpeg results or previews are required - but it's not necessary to apply every knowledge in every situation. I'm a big fan of my camera taking tasks off my hand I can do later, but I know there's the "real photogs never crop & shoot in m flash, m camera, m wb, m focus" crowd, I wonder why they use a digital eos at all 

If you've got time on your hands though doing things before postprocessing might be a good idea, it really depends where the time or work pressure is.


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## verysimplejason (Sep 25, 2013)

madmailman said:


> mkabi said:
> 
> 
> > Why is it that someone is a troll the minute that one person does not have the same thought as the next. I think you're a troll cause you don't agree with me (yeah.... it sounds as stupid as it sounds to me too).
> ...



+1. Unless you're shooting JPEGS, AWB (or sunny WB depending on your preference) is the best way to go. That way, you worry more on your composition rather some extra technicalities. Well, it's a kind of choice really. For me, I almost always adjust the white balance anyway in PP. Sometimes I want it warmer, sometimes colder, sometimes I want it as accurate as possible depending on what fits the scene (very subjective). For video, of course, you have to set your white balance properly as soon as possible unless you're shooting in video raw.


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## Max ☢ (Sep 25, 2013)

Just an hypothesis: what if the AWB setting is actually the white balance mode which works best at providing the exact desired color rendition in a given situation? Does this still makes the photographer a noob? should he care about someone's else opinion on this matter? ... I did not think so.

This situation actually happened to me recently when taking street photos at dusk in an environment illuminated with color-corrected high-pressure mercury vapor lamps, sometimes in combination with several sodium vapor lamps. The strong 546 nm line of the mercury source is known to give photos a too strong green hue, which the "fluorescent" mode partly corrects for (in digital cameras that is). 

Setting the white balance to this "fluorescent" mode worked great on all my previous APS-C bodies, but not properly on my 6D! I still got way too greenish end-results. I went through all the different WB modes, even the CCT adjustable one, and guess what? the AWB mode is the one which actually gave the most faithful rendering. I don't care if someone believes that only noobs use AWB, I know better and I'll use this mode under mercury light from now on...


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## CarlTN (Sep 25, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> learncanon said:
> 
> 
> > the 6Dmk2 would be built close to 5D3 while retaining its small size and multi-directional dial (whatever you call it).
> ...



This has been a quasi-interesting thread, although there's not been any meaningful rumors of a replacement to the 6D. So this thread is kind of baseless. I think this is a case where Nikon is doing something that Canon does not have to do in the slightest... 

Certainly there will be a 5D4, perhaps a year before a "6D2". Seems to me a 5D4 announcement would occur sometime in 2014, perhaps Q2 or Q3...??

The solution to giving a 6D replacement more features from the 5D3, is to give the 5D4 even more of the features the 1DX has...and charge _even more_ for it (this strategy of hiking pricepoints of their product lines while also giving them added features and performance, seems to be working for Canon). So I see the initial price for a 5D4 at around $3999 US, body only, and it will never sell below $3300 or so, even from the "big discount ebay" retailers (where the 5D3 has been advertised at around $2500 at these places briefly). A "6D2" would have its initial price in the $2.5k to $2.8k range, body only (not coincidentally the range the 5D2 sold for during almost all of its 5 years)...with the "6D2" having a few more useful features, yet still a bit crippled compared to the current 5D3. Dual card slots seem like a feature they will especially break down and give it...at least one of them being a CF or similar high speed card.

I have a feeling the AF of a "6D2" will still get plenty of mocking jeers from the usual suspects, because Canon has decided their entry level FF camera apparently sells well enough without a high performance AF sensor/processor. I could be wrong, time will tell.

One thing I know for sure. For myself and my photography, I don't feel I am missing all that much having not chosen the 5D3. I do have a feeling the 5D4 will be harder to pass up. Just seems like feature set and image quality will converge on it in a more compelling way. The price of admission will be higher, but it just might be a more full featured show.


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## Chris Jankowski (Sep 25, 2013)

I think that Canon may introduce a sub $1,000 FF DSLR body to their range before upgrading 6D. It would be positioned below 6D. 8D or SL6 anyone?

And why not - sensors are getting cheaper and electronics is getting smaller, cheaper and draws less power. This can be packaged in a small body and manufactured cheaply. There will be market for a small, simple FF DSLR for travel or as a backup. 

Do you remember how small were the last models of bottom of the range 35mm film SLRs e.g. Minolta Dynax 3L just 310g?

I, for one would buy a body like that for travel and as a backup. I only have EF lenses, no EF-S lenses, so having another body withe same viewing angle is a bonus for me.


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## verysimplejason (Sep 25, 2013)

I just want the 6D Mark II to have the same AF with all double cross-points and sensitivity up to -3 EV. 11 is more than enough. That would set it apart from 5D3/4 AF. Also, a dual SD card would be good. The other specs are good enough for me though a new and improved sensor wouldn't hurt.


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## CarlTN (Sep 25, 2013)

verysimplejason said:


> I just want the 6D Mark II to have the same AF with all double cross-points and sensitivity up to -3 EV. 11 is more than enough. That would set it apart from 5D3/4 AF. Also, a dual SD card would be good. The other specs are good enough for me though a new and improved sensor wouldn't hurt.



True, and the 6D1's AF sensor should have been similar to what you describe, obviously they didn't want it to cut into 5D3 sales. No doubt the sensor will be new and improved, but the one it has now is very hard to beat.


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## Marsu42 (Sep 25, 2013)

verysimplejason said:


> I just want the 6D Mark II to have the same AF with all double cross-points and sensitivity up to -3 EV.



This probably won't work with all lenses, look at the 5d3 specs - but simple cross point should be doable, and this is one of the points Canon really screwed up at. Not that the current 6d af doesn't work, but the non-cross points are noticeable to me.



verysimplejason said:


> 11 is more than enough.



It's not about the number, but what you can do with them - af point expansion is a great feature, but requires dense af points.



verysimplejason said:


> Also, a dual SD card would be good.



Won't happen since seems to be reserved for the premium cameras - but how about one *good* sd slot that isn't crippled to 40mb/s like just now? The current 6d is not able to shoot 1080p/raw for this reason.


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## DRR (Sep 25, 2013)

mkabi said:


> Why is it that someone is a troll the minute that one person does not have the same thought as the next. I think you're a troll cause you don't agree with me (yeah.... it sounds as stupid as it sounds to me too).
> 
> So lightroom has the ability to correct your mistakes, but don't you want to correct your mistake before making the mistake?
> 
> Now, we all make mistakes.... but, rhetorically... How about setting the white balance and even if it is good for one shot, but not good for another shot, then using lightroom? Come on... go outside your comfort zone.



Here's the part that people, including me, are disagreeing with - it's not a mistake. Unlike Auto ISO, which introduces noise which is not correctable, AWB is fully adjustable after the fact. What's the point in taking time away from shooting, in order to set a setting that is fully adjustable with no difference or loss of quality?

That's a rhetorical question, because there is none.

Now, you would be correct if you're shooting JPEG, in that case, you do want your white balance to be as close as possible because you don't have the same flexibility to correct after the fact. Or, if you're shooting a landscape or tabletop, and you want to draw on your knowledge and ability of white balance in order to have complete control over the shot when you hit shutter release. By all means, set it if you want to - but for those who shoot RAW there is very little compelling reason to set it because it does not affect exposure, does not introduce noise, etc.


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## Marsu42 (Sep 25, 2013)

DRR said:


> Unlike Auto ISO, which introduces noise which is not correctable



Um, noise, what noise? On my 6d, I don't see any noise between 100 and 800, hardly up to 1600 - so if the scene isn't dr-limited I don't care about the iso setting. I do agree that on crop auto-iso is less useful because the sane iso range is smaller, but never the less there it is.

I usually use auto-iso with flash, shutter set to max. x-sync, select the dof I want and let the camera select the iso ... there's no other way to do this unless you want to end up with flash hss.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Sep 25, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> DRR said:
> 
> 
> > Unlike Auto ISO, which introduces noise which is not correctable
> ...


Glad you are pleased with your 6D, and can not see any noise between ISO 100 and 800.  Remember: What the eyes do not see, the heart does not feel.  Cheers, brother.


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## unfocused (Sep 25, 2013)

mkabi said:


> In my humble opinion, its like auto-white balance, you know you're a novice if you're still using auto-white balance.






mkabi said:


> Why is it that someone is a troll the minute that one person does not have the same thought as the next.



It's not the disagreement that leads people to consider someone a troll. It's using a broad-brush, insulting statement that anyone who doesn't do it your way is a novice.

I get so tired of people making outlandish statements and then acting offended when they get called on it. Why can't people just admit they engaged keyboard before engaging brain? Everyone does it occasionally. Trolls just don't admit it.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 25, 2013)

unfocused said:


> mkabi said:
> 
> 
> > In my humble opinion, its like auto-white balance, you know you're a novice if you're still using auto-white balance.
> ...



+1

Or, we could as easily say mkabi must be a novice because s/he's apparently concerned about the in-camera WB setting, given that it doesn't matter when one is shooting RAW.


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## privatebydesign (Sep 26, 2013)

It is one thing to say _"I use this setting because the results work for me and my style of shooting"_ it is quite another to state _"anybody that doesn't use this technique or setting is a novice"_.

Joe Buissink, who is a truly world class wedding photographer and charges >$10,000 per wedding, oh and is a Canon Explorer of Light (I doubt if mkabi is) uses AWB and P mode virtually 100% of the time. He is not a novice. It works for him.


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## Janbo Makimbo (Sep 26, 2013)

privatebydesign said:


> It is one thing to say _"I use this setting because the results work for me and my style of shooting"_ it is quite another to state _"anybody that doesn't use this technique or setting is a novice"_.
> 
> Joe Buissink, who is a truly world class wedding photographer and charges >$10,000 per wedding, oh and is a Canon Explorer of Light (I doubt if mkabi is) uses AWB and P mode virtually 100% of the time. He is not a novice. It works for him.


Yes, but it made his hair fall out!!


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## verysimplejason (Sep 26, 2013)

Janbo Makimbo said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > It is one thing to say _"I use this setting because the results work for me and my style of shooting"_ it is quite another to state _"anybody that doesn't use this technique or setting is a novice"_.
> ...



At least he's earning 10K+ per wedding. How much those so-called pros earn from photography? :


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## Zv (Sep 26, 2013)

I find this AWB and Auto ISO debate interesting so I'm gonna jump right in and offer my two pennies worth. 

Everyone has a their own shooting style and preferences and if AWB works for one guy and not for another then so be it. Neither one would be considered a novice as long as they KNEW WHY they were using that particular setting. 

Also I find Auto ISO very useful. If you must keep two factors constant (shutter speed and aperture in this case) then the exposure triangle dictates that ISO is the only variable. So in changing light it would be a lot more convenient to choose (notice I said CHOOSE) to use Auto ISO. 

The difference is knowing. 

Personally I shoot almost 100% in daylight WB now so I know what am dealing with and can adjust it later. And sometimes I find myself changing ISO way too often wondering later why I didn't just stick with AUTO. These days high ISO noise isn't too much of an issue.


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## Ruined (Sep 26, 2013)

I would like to see a 6D2 with more AF points and an articulating touchscreen.


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## Marsu42 (Sep 28, 2013)

troutmouth said:


> they need to, seeing as their cheaper 70d beats it in many respects e.g. autofocus.



That's how they *want* it, the image quality of the 6d at medium-high iso blows the 70d out of the water, so there has to be some product differentiation... and people with deep pockets who wand good af *and* iq are meant to buy the 5d3.


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## RGF (Sep 28, 2013)

duydaniel said:


> Since Nikon is releasing a D610
> I bet Canon will release a 6D2 ;D
> 
> Any thoughts?



Most likely the 6D will be replaced - not sure it will be called a 6D M2, and will be awhile


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## thgmuffin (Sep 29, 2013)

troutmouth said:


> they definitely need to. shame on Canon for charging so much for a camera with dodgy auto-focus. otherwise a good body.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


The AF isn't dodgy, it just isn't the best at certain things. However at everything else it is the best performance/value you can possibly get on the market.


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## Marsu42 (Sep 29, 2013)

thgmuffin said:


> The AF isn't dodgy, it just isn't the best at certain things.



This really depends on a) what you expect (I compare the 6D to my 60D) and b) what you shoot. Today I repeated some handheld macros - and the 6d af again and again failed to af on dragonfly eyes with the f2.8 line, and the fallback f5.6 cross af was all over the place given the thin macro dof... the 60d center double-cross manages to af better.

So as a proud 6d owner I hereby announce: Yes, if someone labels the af as "dodgy" I at least cannot deny it, I really wish it'd be otherwise.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Sep 29, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> thgmuffin said:
> 
> 
> > The AF isn't dodgy, it just isn't the best at certain things.
> ...


You concluded that the central focus point of 6D is worse than 60D in good light? :-[ Is that a side effect of the increased sensitivity of the central point for low light? ???


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## Marsu42 (Sep 29, 2013)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> You concluded that the central focus point of 6D is worse than 60D in good light? :-[



Absolutely, that's why a lot of people (including me) are so unimpressed with the 6d af - the 7d/60d/650d/700d, ... central point is *double* cross, meaning it's cross f2.8 sensitive and overlay cross f5.6 sensitive. The 6d is non-cross @f2.8, so with a fast lens you'll have no precise enough cross point at all.

The 6d af is more precise as in *consistent*, meaning it's "better" than 60d if it locks on ... *if* :-\



ajfotofilmagem said:


> Is that a side effect of the increased sensitivity of the central point for low light? ???



It might be or not, only Canon knows. Most likely it's just Canon being cheap, they took the existing 15pt 5d2 af system design, reducted it to 11 points and put it in the 6d... just enhancing the low-light sensitivity of the center point.


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## CarlTN (Oct 1, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> ajfotofilmagem said:
> 
> 
> > You concluded that the central focus point of 6D is worse than 60D in good light? :-[
> ...



I mostly agree.

The more interesting question is, what will the 5D4 be like? Will it be close to, or over 30 MP (and thus be an even worse camera for low light than the 5D3 is)? Or will they go for speed, say 8fps, and stick with a sensor similar to the 5D3's existing one? How much more will it cost? $4000? Or will the 5D4 be a "do it all camera" that gets close to 1DX speed, because the new (slow) studio camera will be medium format, or an otherwise very pricey ($10k+) 1 series "full frame" with a lot of pixels?


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## Marsu42 (Oct 1, 2013)

CarlTN said:


> Or will the 5D4 be a "do it all camera" that gets close to 1DX speed, because the new (slow) studio camera will be medium format, or an otherwise very pricey ($10k+) 1 series "full frame" with a lot of pixels?



Imho the 5d will never be a 1dx "do it all" due to product differentiation, there will be a pro-sports camera on top. Canon has a lot of options to separate cameras, hardware or software, and they'll use them. But the 5d4 has to make a serious splash because the current 5d3 is a very competent and complete all-around camera.

It's different with the 6d and the 5d2-style af system though... it seems Canon put it here to have something to upgrade on the 6d2, just like they removed afma from 50d->60d and now have it there again in the 70d as a great new feature


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## jepabst (Oct 9, 2014)

Honestly, I love the 6D, I shoot all of my wedding photography on that camera. I have no problem focusing (I only use center point) and recompose. If I had one complaint, at that price point, like Nikon, I'd like to have dual card slots, just for peace of mind/backup. Cards are not too expensive, and an extra 150 bucks would cover a wedding in card space. I don't find 1/4000 to be limiting; I suppose a higher flash sync speed would be nice, but I can work around that as well. I'm really just wanting Canon to keep up with Nikon so I don't have to start selling lenses I saved money for years to buy.


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