# 5DIV price confirmed



## Eldar (Aug 24, 2016)

According to Cameratimes, the US price is confirmed at $3.499 and in Canada CAD4.299

http://cameratimes.org/confirmed-us-price-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-3499/


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## privatebydesign (Aug 24, 2016)

dilbert said:


> Going by shipping documents to India, $3499 is more than twice the value of the camera internally at Canon.



http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=30537.msg616526#msg616526


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## davidmurray (Aug 24, 2016)

Eldar said:


> According to Cameratimes, the US price is confirmed at $3.499 and in Canada CAD4.299
> 
> http://cameratimes.org/confirmed-us-price-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-3499/



Ouch!

That would mean the Canon Matket-manipulated price here would be closer to $7,000 if that USA price is to be believed. Retail prices here are almost always twice the USian price regardless of the exchange rate.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 24, 2016)

dilbert said:


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If by _"take a cut"_ you mean pay taxes, transportation companies, warehouse rents, insurance, advertising, CPS, warranties, certification and regulatory fees, licenses, permits, importers and dealers (and all the costs associated with running a dealership, wages, rent, electricity, taxes, accountants, websites blah blah blah), yep they all have to be paid for. How much do you think anything wholesales for in relation to retail? Do you think the camera industry is unique and the 5D MkIV pricing structure specifically designed to 'rip off' poor unsuspecting Canon purchasers?

There are three entities trying to specifically make money off the sale, Canon JPN, the importers (which are often wholly owned by Canon JPN) and the retailer. That is not a lot of _"middlemen"_.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 24, 2016)

dilbert said:


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How do you know that? Do you know if Canon India is owned by Canon JPN? Do you know how much profit Canon India makes either in general or on a 5D MkIV? No, you are just being silly.


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## Mikehit (Aug 24, 2016)

dilbert said:


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Country branches are often legal entities in their own right so accounts are separate and this is done for legal as well as financial reasons. Canon India will pay JPN for the products in exactly the same was as the shop pays Canon India. 
When it comes to things like warranty you may find Canon JPN underwrites any liabilities for product failure but that does not change the legal standing. Again, just like Canon India underwrites any quality issues under terms of the warranty for goods sold by the shop.


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## eml58 (Aug 24, 2016)

dilbert said:


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I know this is a mistake, I know, but...

It's called running a Business, and if the Business can be run at a profit, then that's actually preferred to the alternative, which is running a Business at a loss.

Running a Business at a Loss has one (maybe more than One), but one serious pitfall, it's generally called "Going Bankrupt", but it has other names as well, "Stupidity", "Mismanagement", "Failing to interpret the Market", "Not charging enough for inovation" (I know You'll Love that one), and so on ad infinitum.

It's always about the Bottom Line in Business, there is no other medium to judge wether you've done it right or not, but if you've never Ran your own Business, or had someone trust you enough to run theirs, this will all be Pie in the Sky I'm sure.

Canon, Nikon, Hasselblad, Sony, Ferrari, Apple et all, have the same Philosophy in General, Make a Profit or go Bust.

I may be winging it here, but I suspect Canon did a bit of Market research to determine the highest price they could charge for their latest Camera to Market, in there they would have considered who might not want to pay 3.5k for the Camera, the research would have come up with your name Dilbert, and considering Canon will loose one sale to Sony, I'm sure they'll still go forward and charge 3.5k for the Camera, not without hesitation I'm sure.

And Yes, there's a reasonable amount of Sarcasm in this Post (actually a lot I know), it's never nice, and I try so very hard not to use it, but you do seem to have this affect on me at times Dilbert.


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## Maiaibing (Aug 24, 2016)

Eldar said:


> According to Cameratimes, the US price is confirmed at $3.499 and in Canada CAD4.299
> 
> http://cameratimes.org/confirmed-us-price-canon-eos-5d-mark-iv-3499/


A little more than I hoped for (3.300$). Of course still a rumor. 

Thinking of getting the 24-105mm kit and selling the lens unused to shave off 150$. And will sell my 6D for around 850$ (my current back-up camera). So 2.500$ effective. 

2.500$ is actually still more than I payed for my 5DII's soon after its release(!).


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## N2itiv (Aug 24, 2016)

I don't do gray market but it will be fun to see how low those importers (into the US) will price. Won't be getting this immediately. CPW might save a couple hundred.


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## GuyF (Aug 24, 2016)

eml58 said:


> I know this is a mistake, I know, but...



Yup, I guess some people just don't understand capitalism.  Of course some businesses are set up deliberately to make a loss but let's not open that can of worms.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 24, 2016)

dilbert said:


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need a kleenix.

canon has MAP, so does NIkon and Sony..etc. etc.

it's because the larger channels get dealer discounts. if they are allowed to ADVERTISE the price it hurts the smaller dealers excessively.

So the companies enforce the lower bound to what you can advertise at


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## rrcphoto (Aug 24, 2016)

dilbert said:


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IMO .. you're being ridiculous.

Canon USA for instance has to pay out salaries, taxes, warranty repair, CPS, etc,etc out of it's own pockets and in local currency.

Also there's a certain % leeway there for retailer incentives and discounts and finally the retailers have to make money off this too.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 24, 2016)

dilbert said:


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MAP doesn't do anything other than enforce advertising. 

perhaps look up MAP and what it actually means before complaining about it.

Amazon and bh,etc get around this all the time .. you see this ALOT on sony products. you don't get the price until you put the item in the shopping cart.

Sony, Nikon, Apple, Canon, just about every large vendor does this. Otherwise, it put the smaller retailer at a huge disadvantage for advertising.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 24, 2016)

dilbert said:


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because without it, larger retailers can undercut with competitive advertising.

for instance if vendor A sells 10,000 units online and vender B sells 500 units in store. Vendor A can most likely profit form a lower margin even if their costs are the same. Vendor A could advertise then a much lower price than vendor B could ever do.

MAP attempts to keep it an even playing field as far as advertising and promotion and helps the smaller dealers.

Vendor A can sell for cheaper than vendor B, they simply can't advertise it.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 24, 2016)

dilbert said:


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wow .. latch on one thing as if it's the end of the world.

even ignoring CPS.

Canon USA has to pay for all the local employee salaries, benefits, insurance, buildings, USA federal and state taxes, warranty repair, local support, retailer support, local marketing, local legal and accounting services, and distribution.

on top of that retailers have to pay for employees, advertising, taxes,etc,etc.

did you think all that was no cost? it's free?


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## reef58 (Aug 24, 2016)

So are you suggesting Canon commit tax fraud so you can save a few bucks on your camera, or maybe they can just avoid paying them?


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## Dverb (Aug 24, 2016)

dilbert said:


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In the capitalist end - Canon is not running a not-for-profit and will try to maximize their profits. Unless Canon has enough pain in lost market share or revenue they won't make a change to their margins. If enough people join Dilbert and boycott the camera then and only then will Canon drop pricing. 

Even if Canon drops pricing in a year after the initial demand is met, Canon still benefited from higher margins in the first year. 

I have my popcorn and will be waiting and watching to see how pricing for this camera changes in the next year.


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## M_S (Aug 24, 2016)

3499$ vs 3700€ WTF? Taking into account the latest exchange rate 3499$ will make 3102 €. Whats up here? Milking the cow? Or is 3499$ before tax and 3700€ including tax?


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## weixing (Aug 24, 2016)

dilbert said:


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Hi,
Not sure what's the problem, Canon put a price tag on their products and if you think Canon product is overpriced, just don't buy. It's your money and no one is forcing you to buy Canon products.

Have a nice day.


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## Lesmen27 (Aug 24, 2016)

3499 dollar means today 3088 euro.
Why retail price 3700 euro for Europe???


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## weixing (Aug 24, 2016)

M_S said:


> 3500$ vs 3700€ WTF? Taking into account the latest exchange rate 3499$ will make 3102 €. Whats up here? Milking the cow?


Hi,
Hmm... if you live in UK or Europe, when you ask for servicing, you contact Canon USA service centre or your local Canon service centre... May be that's account for the price different.

Have a nice day.


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## M_S (Aug 24, 2016)

weixing said:


> M_S said:
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> > 3500$ vs 3700€ WTF? Taking into account the latest exchange rate 3499$ will make 3102 €. Whats up here? Milking the cow?
> ...



If you want to say that service costs a bit, ok. I pay gladly for that. But taking that logic leads us to believe that Canon USA service has a non existing or inferior service compared to the EU service because of the lower price of the product????? Or what was the point of that statement?


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## NadaMal (Aug 24, 2016)

According to dutytaxcalculator website there is 0% import duty on digital camera's when importing to the US, Canada and the UK. However, US has an average total sales tax of around 9% compared to UK VAT of 20%, so there should at least be an 11% discrepancy.

I understand that US prices are usually shown pre-tax, and UK are post-tax.

Doing a quick calculation based on todays exchange rates means that in the UK the camera will be: £3155. Now in the US it'll cost on average £2883 (£2645 + 9%), but adding an extra 20% to the US listed price after currency conversion (to compensate for the extra tax paid) would yield a cost of £3174, so taking VAT/sales tax into account the camera is on sale for nearly equal cost.

Now this is likely just due to the post-Brexit low pound, as normally the camera's are cheaper in the US, but at these prices importing one from the USA would be more expensive than buying locally.

I normally pre-order any new 5D series body, but for the Mark IV I think I'll wait and pick one up in Canada in October as I think their sales tax is around 5%?


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## pwp (Aug 24, 2016)

Most of the profit earned by local national Canon importers comes from business equipment, laser printers and so forth. Cameras form a relatively minor part of their business bottom line. Most of the criticism in this thread of Canon's business model is naive. 

We'd all like to get a 5D MkIV for the price of a 7D MkII, but live with the realities and either pay the asking price and get to work taking great photos or quit the reactive, uninformed chatter and keep shooting with your current camera. 

-pw


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## Mikehit (Aug 24, 2016)

Lesmen27 said:


> 3499 dollar means today 3088 euro.
> Why retail price 3700 euro for Europe???



Listed US prices do not include taxes (they are applied at point of sale according to local rates). In EU they have to include tax.


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## M_S (Aug 24, 2016)

Mikehit said:


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Then it makes a lot more sense. At least when it comes to the price difference.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 24, 2016)

eml58 said:


> I know this is a mistake, I know, but...



To you and others in this thread, I suggest finding a bowling ball and explaining economic concepts to it, there's a higher likelihood it will understand. Sarcasm is lost on those who lack the wit to comprehend it.


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## AnotherCanonUser (Aug 24, 2016)

Hello everyone!

Just curious if anyone has seen pricing information regarding the 5DIV release in Japan? I have asked Google and done some trawling, but I haven't found anything so far!

Thanks...


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## .jan (Aug 24, 2016)

Lesmen27 said:


> 3499 dollar means today 3088 euro.
> Why retail price 3700 euro for Europe???


Not sure how things are in the US or elsewhere, but here in Germany, and Europe in general as far as I know, the retail prices usually drop pretty quickly (except for the 1D series), the 80D for example sells for about 80% of its msrp today. If it really comes at 3700€ I'd expect the 5D IV to drop to ~3300€ including VAT before Christmas.


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## infared (Aug 24, 2016)

Interesting...Price is the same at launch or slightly less expensive than my 5DIII... I paid the release price last time for a very specific update on the 5DIII and choked, or should I say my bank account did and I paid the price. I have no dire need for this new body...it is actually over-kill for my needs, so I plan to wait until it drops to $1800 grey market. It will.
I also have decided to buy the new Olympus EM1 II and this will be available in the same time frame as the 5DMark IV. I use that system more and more as it is so small and light and getting better and better for my photo needs.
This looks like a great camera...but I just to not have the G.A.S. for it at that price....YAY!...I can wait for once...


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## GMCPhotographics (Aug 24, 2016)

pwp said:


> Most of the profit earned by local national Canon importers comes from business equipment, laser printers and so forth. Cameras form a relatively minor part of their business bottom line. Most of the criticism in this thread of Canon's business model is naive.
> 
> We'd all like to get a 5D MkIV for the price of a 7D MkII, but live with the realities and either pay the asking price and get to work taking great photos or quit the reactive, uninformed chatter and keep shooting with your current camera.
> 
> -pw



Yep, it's a sellers market. Canon will trickle a low amount of 5D4's across the UK market...and various camera geeks (who must have the latest gear to be taken seriously) will lap them up at what ever price is being charged for them. Once supply stabilises and overpriced / undersupply market have their cameras....then the price will start to descend. The 5D3 was selling for around £3100 UKP on launch. Now I can snap one up at nearly half that (Hdew cameras). So wait a year, and you'll pay a £1000 less. Or buy today, post a blog and have your website crash.


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## PetriP (Aug 24, 2016)

Lesmen27 said:


> 3499 dollar means today 3088 euro.
> Why retail price 3700 euro for Europe???



Different taxation perhaps.


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## wockawocka (Aug 24, 2016)

And if you're VAT registered in the UK I get 20% of the list price back.

Which is nice.


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## douglaurent (Aug 24, 2016)

The high 5D4 Euro price would be okay if Canon would implement many of the nice features the Sony A7R2 for example has since 1.5 years for less money. 

With the limited amount of features the price is 20-30% too high, especially as this model will last for another 4 years and will be outdated and outperformed by many other cheaper models from other brands during that time and even very soon.

Canon knows that this DSLR will be the last camera with mirror many DSLR-users will buy forever, so of course they milk every last cent out of customers until they present their own mirrorless large sensor product variations.

When prices are set to the maximum like in this case, Canon should be aware that users will show less and less brand loyalty in the future. In the longterm the price policies will not pay off.


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## Deleted member 378221 (Aug 24, 2016)

Lesmen27 said:


> 3499 dollar means today 3088 euro.
> Why retail price 3700 euro for Europe???


US prices are usually listed without sales tax, while in Europe prices are listed including sales tax.
Google converts $3500 to approximately €3106. Sales tax in Germany (for example) is 19%, so €3106*1.19 = €3696.14, pretty much the €3700 price that's rumored. I'm still hoping for €3500 retail, but we'll see tomorrow.



.jan said:


> Not sure how things are in the US or elsewhere, but here in Germany, and Europe in general as far as I know, the retail prices usually drop pretty quickly (except for the 1D series), the 80D for example sells for about 80% of its msrp today. If it really comes at 3700€ I'd expect the 5D IV to drop to ~3300€ including VAT before Christmas.


Usually I'd say you are right, but that doesn't seem to hold true in the professional market. I know you already excluded the 1D series (which afaik is only sold by professional retailers, not much pricing competition there). But if you take a look at the price development history of the 5D3, 5Ds and 5DsR according to the price comparison page "geizhals.de" you'll also see only minor drops.

For the 5D Mark III Wikipedia lists a retail launch price of "$3,499 in the US [...] and €3569 in the Eurozone". Not sure if that's really true.
http://geizhals.de/?phist=744163
The page actually lists the earliest prices in March at ~€3300, with a drop to ~€2800 right before Christmas ( that's 9 months later). During the first 3 months it dropped "only" to €3000.

For the 5Ds / 5Ds R Wikipedia lists the retail price at $3700 and $3900 (no Euro retail price given). Anyway
http://geizhals.de/?phist=1227506
The page lists the 5Ds starting at €3500 in March with a drop to €3350 before Christmas
The page lists the 5Ds R starting at €3700 in March with a drop to €3500 before Christmas

I know with the 5D4 it could all be different, but I wouldn't assume a price drop of €400 within the first 3 months. However, if the Camera retails at €3500 (as I'm still hoping), then a price of €3300 by Christmas sounds perfectly reasonable, as we've seen €200-€300 pricedrops within the first 3 months with other professional Canon cameras.

Boy, that took longer to type than I expected.


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## Maiaibing (Aug 24, 2016)

M_S said:


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Its a large single market with a single currency and no transport barriers - Europe is (still) not.


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## leWrat (Aug 24, 2016)

I just hope that in 9 months time the price will have reduced by a noticeable amount.
Either that or I'll have to spend the next 9 months convincing myself that the money is secondary to the pleasure that I'll get.
I could spend £10/day for the next 9 months, puffing away at ciggies (@£10 per pack of 20 per day) worrying about whether I should buy the 5DIV or not. 
Hold on, I'm not a smoker, so by then I will have saved £2750 just by not being a smoker. Wow, that camera is cheap by comparison!
This "convincing myself" is easier than I thought it would be!


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## yeahright (Aug 24, 2016)

Maiaibing said:


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Fact is, the EU with over 500 million people is a larger single market than the USA with only about 322 million people; there are no transport barriers in the EU, it's a single market. Even the Eurozone, with the Euro as the common currency has around 337 million people, and is larger than the USA...


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 24, 2016)

douglaurent said:


> Canon knows that this DSLR will be the last camera with mirror many DSLR-users will buy forever, so of course they milk every last cent out of customers until they present their own mirrorless large sensor product variations.



Yeah, because that suggestion is backed up by so much empirical data, like the fact that Canon continues to gain market share with their mostly-dSLR lineup, and the fact that the global MILC market is not growing, and the fact that smaller sensor MILCs continue to far outsell their FF MILC counterparts. 

Of course, if by "many DSLR-users" you mean the tiny minority of Canon's 5-series user base who are Sony fanbois that hang out on the internet too much, then maybe you're right.


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## jeffa4444 (Aug 24, 2016)

In the UK the 5DS launched at £ 2,999, the 5DSr at £ 3199. Within six months the 5DS could be had for £ 2699 but the 5DSr remained at £ 3,199. Now they typically sell for 5DS £ 2699 and the 5DSr at £ 2899. Within that period sterling has dropped by 20% in value i.e. since June 2016. 

Canon will launch the 5D MKIV I would imagine at between £ 3100 / £ 3199, over time I see this going down to £ 2499 / £ 2599 keeping the premium on the larger MP cameras (they will be updated with the same housing as the IV over time). The 5D MKIII is at 2299.


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## tron (Aug 24, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> douglaurent said:
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Some of which may not even own a Sony camera. Or even a Canon... ;D


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## romanr74 (Aug 24, 2016)

dilbert said:


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It is save to believe that this is exactly what they do where it is useful to keep costs low. However, they would be completely insane if they gave the savings away via price reductions. Price is determined to be as high as economically useful depening on price sensitivity/elasticity (not a low as possible). You're confusing capitalism with the other concept, the red one...


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## tron (Aug 24, 2016)

OK, I know which Christmas (or post-Christmas) present I will buy to .. myself. 

5DIV + 24-105 II 

It will not be cheap but I will partially exchange my 5DIII + 24-105 


Hope this is enough time for a bug to appear and to be fixed .. ;D


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## Diko (Aug 24, 2016)

dilbert said:


> Going by shipping documents to India, $3499 is more than twice the value of the camera internally at Canon.


 Can you please explain?


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## jeffa4444 (Aug 24, 2016)

dilbert said:


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Your displaying a complete idiots guide to business. Canon regional offices are customers of Canon Japan, under GAAP they must operate to a degree at arms length. Canon Japan does not support your warranty, the region or country you bought it in does (think of a car dealer & you car warranty). Canon Europa for instance then deals with Canon UK, between them they set the UK price, this includes a % for the services Canon UK & Europa provide (sales & marketing, admin, training to dealers, warranty repairs & support for CPS etc.) without these functions you would not get a camera from your dealer like any other product you purchase (like a cooker, hairdryer etc). 
If you think for one minute Canon would run its business with inflated overheads you clearly have never been around a corporate run company. They charge a premium so they can deliver reliable products that if they do go wrong can be serviced quickly & cost affectively. 

In the end you have a choice if you don't like the price, don't buy.


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## jeanluc (Aug 24, 2016)

The sales tax in most parts of Canada is a LOT more than 5%.


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## Diko (Aug 24, 2016)

M_S said:


> 3499$ vs 3700€ WTF? Taking into account the latest exchange rate 3499$ will make 3102 €. Whats up here? Milking the cow? Or is 3499$ before tax and 3700€ including tax?


 Yep. I think we in Europe are obviously considered to be idiots that are willing to pay big money. And most perhaps are. 

Can anyone provide a link of the 5D3 price history. What was the situatuon with the mainstream greymarket ebay resellers? 

I might not buy so blindly after all ))))


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## smorgo (Aug 24, 2016)

Is anyone else bemused by the fact that this thread (and several of the others) seems to be half-filled with people with a sense of entitlement to own this new camera at whatever price they see fit?

I'm expecting it to retail for £3299 in the UK. That's a little more expensive than in the US, taking into account the effect of sales tax-vs-VAT, but that's the premium we pay for not having to be American. You get used to it.

£3299 is expensive, but a fair price, in my opinion. Fortunately, it coincides with being able to pay for one, for a change.


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## SteveM (Aug 24, 2016)

I see this coming in at £3499 in the UK....exchange rate in the UK has always seemed to be one I'm unaware of.


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## rpritch (Aug 24, 2016)

Although I am a bit disappointed with the USD price point, I have decided to preorder the Mark IV. I have never had a full-frame camera, but I believe now is a good time. I have three weddings booked this fall, and I feel that this will help a great deal. While I was considering the Mark III, I feel that the price difference is justifiable. I shoot a great deal of wildlife (using a 7d Mark II), and the increased resolution of the Mark IV should make cropping more feasible. Also, having just opened a studio, the tethering capabilities provided by wifi will be immensely helpful.


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## tron (Aug 24, 2016)

smorgo said:


> Is anyone else bemused by the fact that this thread (and several of the others) seems to be half-filled with people with a sense of entitlement to own this new camera at whatever price they see fit?
> 
> I'm expecting it to retail for £3299 in the UK. That's a little more expensive than in the US, taking into account the effect of sales tax-vs-VAT, but that's the premium we pay for not having to be American. You get used to it.
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> £3299 is expensive, but a fair price, in my opinion. Fortunately, it coincides with being able to pay for one, for a change.


There are some ways to pay less. 

1st We wait a few months. This has the added advantage that it will reveal any possible bugs.
2nd We part exchange our older equipment
3rd We buy grey

Plus some combinations of the above


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## CanoKnight (Aug 24, 2016)

dilbert said:


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Canon should get rid of Canon USA and sell direct from their factory in Oita ! In the rare event warranty work is required, Canon Jpn should have support centers in low cost third countries. Will be a slight in convenience for US buyers but potentially big cost savings. The 5d4 is a $ 2400 camera selling for 3500.


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## slclick (Aug 24, 2016)

Since this is what the Mk3 started at and anyone who hasn't been in a cave knows that prices fall post launch why is this starting point a surprise? Why all the discord? Buy or don't.


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## hne (Aug 24, 2016)

5DmkIII price history in the UK: http://pricespy.co.uk/product.php?pu=1155598
5DmkIII price history in Sweden: http://www.prisjakt.nu/produkt.php?pu=1155598
...New Zeeland: http://pricespy.co.nz/product.php?pu=1155598
...Germany: http://geizhals.de/?phist=744163
...Across the Euro area: http://geizhals.de/?phist=744163

These are lowest publicly advertised price per day. Excluding mail-in rebate schemes, campaign codes and similar. In short, the price a brick-and-mortar store might be expected to match if you ask politely.



Diko said:


> M_S said:
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> > 3499$ vs 3700€ WTF? Taking into account the latest exchange rate 3499$ will make 3102 €. Whats up here? Milking the cow? Or is 3499$ before tax and 3700€ including tax?
> ...


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## rrcphoto (Aug 24, 2016)

CanoKnight said:


> Canon should get rid of Canon USA and sell direct from their factory in Oita ! In the rare event warranty work is required, Canon Jpn should have support centers in low cost third countries. Will be a slight in convenience for US buyers but potentially big cost savings. The 5d4 is a $ 2400 camera selling for 3500.



I'm thinking my sarcasm meter is broken..


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## smorgo (Aug 24, 2016)

tron said:


> There are some ways to pay less.
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> 1st We wait a few months. This has the added advantage that it will may reveal any possible bugs.



Yes, there's some sense there. However, it doesn't take long before you reach the point where it might be better to wait for the next version. For the past two years, I've been on the verge of buying the Mark 3, but always knew I'd regret not waiting for the Mark 4, which was obviously 'just around the corner'. Turned out to be a bloody big corner, that one.



> 2nd We part exchange our older equipment



I'm still on my Mark 1, which is worth sod all, these days.



> 3rd We buy grey



I bought grey when the 20D came out. I won't again. In the UK at least, you only save significant coin buying grey if you can avoid the VAT. If you declare it, and pay the VAT, you've not saved a significant amount, but you've got no dealer support and no warranty. If you don't declare it and Customs take an interest (they can tell the originating market from the serial number), they don't bill you for the unpaid VAT; they confiscate the goods. So while the probability of being caught is low, the exposure if you're caught is high. Each time you enter the country, you run the risk of being caught. But if you never take your camera abroad, the odds are excellent. Too risky for me, but suits many.

Personally, I've waited too long and can't wait any longer. The limited utility of my Mark 1 outside the studio (which I no longer have) is stopping me take pictures. I need to find my mojo again and, being someone who got into photography through a love of the technology, I think I'm all but there, this time.


----------



## CanoKnight (Aug 24, 2016)

tron said:


> smorgo said:
> 
> 
> > Is anyone else bemused by the fact that this thread (and several of the others) seems to be half-filled with people with a sense of entitlement to own this new camera at whatever price they see fit?
> ...



Absolutely buy gray. I stopped buying new usa products from retailers years ago and never had a problem. My 5d3 cost me 1899 brand new and it's working wonderfully. The 5d4 should be down to the upper 20s in a year or so.


----------



## wockawocka (Aug 24, 2016)

smorgo said:


> Is anyone else bemused by the fact that this thread (and several of the others) seems to be half-filled with people with a sense of entitlement to own this new camera at whatever price they see fit?
> 
> I'm expecting it to retail for £3299 in the UK. That's a little more expensive than in the US, taking into account the effect of sales tax-vs-VAT, but that's the premium we pay for not having to be American. You get used to it.
> 
> £3299 is expensive, but a fair price, in my opinion. Fortunately, it coincides with being able to pay for one, for a change.



3k though and I'll be carding 2 of them


----------



## symmar22 (Aug 24, 2016)

CanoKnight said:


> Canon should get rid of Canon USA and sell direct from their factory in Oita ! In the rare event warranty work is required, Canon Jpn should have support centers in low cost third countries. Will be a slight in convenience for US buyers but potentially big cost savings. The 5d4 is a $ 2400 camera selling for 3500.



Not sure I should answer this one, but as a pro, CPS is one of the very main reasons for buying Canon. I can't afford to have repairs done in India with a 6 weeks turnover.

Maybe one should replace YOUR job with one in a low cost country, it wouldn't be a huge inconvenience for me....


----------



## unfocused (Aug 24, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> CanoKnight said:
> 
> 
> > Canon should get rid of Canon USA and sell direct from their factory in Oita ! In the rare event warranty work is required, Canon Jpn should have support centers in low cost third countries. Will be a slight in convenience for US buyers but potentially big cost savings. The 5d4 is a $ 2400 camera selling for 3500.
> ...



Same here. I presume this was sarcastic, because no one could be crazy enough to believe this – it's even beyond our cubicle dwelling cartoon character.


----------



## Etienne (Aug 24, 2016)

This launch price is expected. There will be Christmas sales, and a price reduction at most large retailers within 6 - 12 months.

If I remember right, the 5D3 came out at US$3300. 
I bought it about 6 months after launch at US$2750 from B&H.


----------



## unfocused (Aug 24, 2016)

This thread proves to me that people on the internet will always find something to complain about.

This camera is being introduced at the same price the previous model was introduced at. Yet, it is a significantly better camera in all respects. Although inflation has been low for the past several years, it's pretty hard to find any product that is significantly improved and yet introduced at the same price as a predecessor.

Plus, it's not as though the laws of economics have suddenly been repealed. Eventually, the market will set the price and if you don't want to pay the manufacturer's suggested price, wait six months or so for the market to set the price. 

All this discussion by people who think they know what the price should be is based on ignorance, misinformation and over inflated egos. The market always wins and by that, I mean, the market always sets the price.


----------



## .jan (Aug 24, 2016)

Diko said:


> M_S said:
> 
> 
> > 3499$ vs 3700€ WTF? Taking into account the latest exchange rate 3499$ will make 3102 €. Whats up here? Milking the cow? Or is 3499$ before tax and 3700€ including tax?
> ...


The mentioned 3102€ plus VAT (19% here in Germany) would add up to 3691€. I don't see us pay more money. More taxes perhaps, but that's it.


----------



## sdsr (Aug 24, 2016)

slclick said:


> Since this is what the Mk3 started at and anyone who hasn't been in a cave knows that prices fall post launch why is this starting point a surprise? Why all the discord? Buy or don't.



Well, yes, but that's a sensible reaction.... If anything, one should perhaps be pleasantly surprised that a superior (I assume it is, at least) successor costs the same in absolute terms as, and less in real terms than, a new 5DIII did. 

(Compare the difference in price between a Sony a7r and a7rII - I bought the latter anyway, didn't have to, love it and don't regret buying it, wish it hadn't cost so much more but didn't go online and whine about it, making bizarre claims about how capitalism works and how Sony should run its business in the process....)


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 24, 2016)

I started reading and then realized this thread was infected by the Dilbert virus, so I'm out of here. I should have run scan and clean first. 

Jack


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 24, 2016)

M_S said:


> 3499$ vs 3700€ WTF? Taking into account the latest exchange rate 3499$ will make 3102 €. Whats up here? Milking the cow? Or is 3499$ before tax and 3700€ including tax?



does the EU pricing have to be stickied in every thread to reduce these kind of posts?

everyone in the EU should know advertised prices include VAT.


----------



## GMCPhotographics (Aug 24, 2016)

tron said:


> OK, I know which Christmas (or post-Christmas) present I will buy to .. myself.
> 
> 5DIV + 24-105 II
> 
> ...



You never know...Adobe might get a raw converter working for it by then in Lightroom and Photoshop.


----------



## K (Aug 24, 2016)

$3,500 is too high.

$3,200 would have been a more reasonable release price.


I never buy a camera right when it comes out. 

I'm going to let all the suckers preorder it and pay Canon retail. They can also beta-test it, figure out all the bugs or issues if any - which will lead to an early firmware update which is common for many cameras. By that time, there will be hundreds of reviews and RAW files out there for sampling the actual performance of the camera. And....most software will be updated to be able to read said RAW files. Although, software updates will come very quick - well before any price drop.

By Christmas, it ought to be down to the more reasonable $3,200, at least via a sale or with some rebate. If not, then surely in the January/February sales doldrums.

That said, after determining the real-world performance and deciding if it is a worthy upgrade, I'll be purchasing at a slightly lower price, with the kinks ironed out and full software support.


The 5DSR was even more expensive on release, and there were tons of preorders. However, it quickly dropped in price. Most of the preorders are electronics enthusiasts who have to have the latest and greatest first, and all of the bloggers and vloggers who make a living off of Youtube putting up reviews. Once these nuts are out of the way and real end users become the market, the price will decrease as real end users are not in any hurry because they know the 5D4 isn't some solution to a problem. It's merely an evolutionary step up. I don't think any genuine photographer is going to lose a single penny by not instantly upgrading to the 5D4. Youtuber's do lose money. First reviews, most watches, most clicks --


----------



## calotype (Aug 24, 2016)

I forgot the first price of 5D mk 3 ( that i never bought), but what I see is:

-I bought my MK II from the 5D line right at it's launch : 2300 € taxes included !!!
-The "upgrade" MK III was around +1000€ so 3100 € ( with almost nothing really more than the MKII , a better AF ? electronic leveler, 100% viewfinder from 98%, and some other minor stuff I forget) which was an upDATE not an upGRADE. An upDATE doen't justify a drop price base.
- Came up the 5DS/DSR with actually is around 3790/3990€ 
- Now is coming MKIV at 3700 € ???????? what ?

To me the upGRADE with more things like touch screen+WIFI+GPS+VIDEOoptions etc ( which are cool ) is an real upGRADE that justify a drop price, but from the 5Dmk II not from the MKIII which never justify the previous and insane drop price which now is sadly a " price in mind reference" for 5D line whereas is should not !

All this because of the 6D ...
To me 3700€ for the 5D line with all those built-in upgrades should be a new line like a " 3DmkI"

Really hope the price will go down quickly !


----------



## Maiaibing (Aug 24, 2016)

yeahright said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > Its a large single market with a single currency and no transport barriers - Europe is (still) not.
> ...



Unfortunately the fact is that the European transportation market is highly regulated and for example the restrictions on cabotage is why almost every second cross-border truck transport you see on the road is empty(!). Anyone sending a package from one EU country to another will know its not like dropping by the UPS store in the US. Fact is the cost i multiple times the comparable cost in the US. In the US you need 1 language brochure. You have to make a special xx language brochure for the EU "single" market. The currencies are several - even if the euro has removed some of the extra costs from this its certainly far from a zero cost. I could go on. No need for that. The single market is a project in development. Its made great advances. But its not a reality that can be compared to the US.

Apart from that its a bad joke for US consumers, that they are not told what the real price is when they buy their stuff in shops or look at shopping windows. But that's another matter.


----------



## scyrene (Aug 24, 2016)

douglaurent said:


> The high 5D4 Euro price would be okay if Canon would implement many of the nice features the Sony A7R2 for example has since 1.5 years for less money.
> 
> With the limited amount of features the price is 20-30% too high, especially as this model will last for another 4 years and will be outdated and outperformed by many other cheaper models from other brands during that time and even very soon.
> 
> ...



Yawn.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 24, 2016)

calotype said:


> I forgot the first price of 5D mk 3 ( that i never bought), but what I see is:
> 
> -I bought my MK II from the 5D line right at it's launch : 2300 € taxes included !!!
> -The "upgrade" MK III was around +1000€ so 3100 € ( with almost nothing really more than the MKII , a better AF ? electronic leveler, 100% viewfinder from 98%, and some other minor stuff I forget) which was an upDATE not an upGRADE. An upDATE doen't justify a drop price base.
> ...



the original MSRP of the 5D Mark III was announced as $3499 / €3299 / £2999.99.

why the price for Europe is higher now, is anyone's guess really. especially 400 euros.


----------



## Maiaibing (Aug 24, 2016)

K said:


> I'm going to let all the suckers preorder it and pay Canon retail. (...) Once these nuts are out of the way and real end users become the market, the price will decrease as real end users are not in any hurry because they know the 5D4 isn't some solution to a problem. It's merely an evolutionary step up. I don't think any genuine photographer is going to lose a single penny by not instantly upgrading to the 5D4. Youtuber's do lose money. First reviews, most watches, most clicks --


People have different needs and wants that may not align with your narrow world view. 

I jumped the 5DIII and stuck with my 5DII's - now I'm getting a 5DIV early. Money wise that seems like a great thing to me. And its certainly far more than an evolutionary step up.

Yes, some people live for their internet followers and collect them like happy-coins. What's it to you if they are willing to invest 300$ early to get another 50.000 views or whatever? Some people spend 300$ on a special lunch at some fancy restaurant. I'm sure they could get a burger meal cheaper - but will it make them happier?


----------



## scyrene (Aug 24, 2016)

unfocused said:


> This thread proves to me that people on the internet *Dilbert* will always find something *everything Canon does* to *worth* complain*ing* about.


----------



## scyrene (Aug 24, 2016)

smorgo said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > There are some ways to pay less.
> ...



Well, the best general advice is, buy the product that best fits your budget and best suits your needs. Waiting for a possible new replacement that hasn't been announced is a mug's game.



smorgo said:


> > 3rd We buy grey
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I bought most of my Canon equipment from the grey market, and saved tonnes. There are retailers in the UK who sort all the paperwork for you - it's legal, I assume they buy the gear from Asia and make a profit by adding a small markup. I dunno what the warranty situation is, but probably that's one of the downsides.

Are you saying that when you take your camera on holiday, the airport staff check your serial numbers? Really??


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 24, 2016)

scyrene said:


> smorgo said:
> 
> 
> > tron said:
> ...



actually I know in canada, you are technically supposed to register any expensive stuff with customs before you leave the country, so when you come back into Canada. you have proof that you had it with you when you left.

otherwise, they could say.. you owe taxes, without any proof on you.


----------



## GuyF (Aug 24, 2016)

Face facts, kids. If you've decided the mk4 is what you need/want and already have 3000 £/$/€ waiting, if it turns out to be 3299 you can probably stretch to that too.
Once you've justified it to yourself and can afford it, ignore those who want to rain on the parade. If you don't like capitalism, I'm sure there's a commune somewhere waiting for you to join in and weave placards out of muesli, demanding equal rights for all pixels.

Whilst some are waiting for the price to drop by 10%, you'll be taking shots with your lovely new camera. Points will be awarded for the first unboxing video. 

(apologies to those who knit their own muesli, no offence.)


----------



## nightscape123 (Aug 24, 2016)

Meh, this seems to be canons new strategy. A stupidly absurd price for early adopters then dropping it quickly to the price they actually intend to sell it for. The 7D II and 5DSr both dropped significantly in price the first year. The 5Ds dropped even more. I would be surprised if you couldn't get the 5d4 for $2999 by Christmas.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 24, 2016)

privatebydesign said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > privatebydesign said:
> ...




If you read the Canon Global Home Page, it lists the Canon subsidies and affiliates. You can click on each to find out more. Subsidies are part of and owned by Canon. Its pretty simple to figure out.

http://global.canon/en/corporate/

For example, Canon India:

"Canon India Pvt. Ltd. is a 100% subsidiary of Canon Singapore Pte. Ltd. This world leader in imaging technologies was incorporated in India in the year 1997. Today Canon has offices spread across 14 cities in India and an employee strength of over a 1000 people. The company offers a comprehensive range of over 200 sophisticated and contemporary digital imaging products in the country, that includes digital cameras , digital SLR’s , lenses , accessories , digital copiers, multi-functional peripherals, fax-machines, inkjet and laser printers, projectors, scanners, All-in-ones, digital cameras, dye sub photo printers and semiconductors, card printers and cable ID printers."


----------



## unfocused (Aug 24, 2016)

scyrene said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > This thread proves to me that people on the internet *Dilbert* will always find something *everything Canon does* to *worth* complain*ing* about.



Ah, if it were only just Dilbert. Unfortunately it's not.


----------



## Mikehit (Aug 24, 2016)

nightscape123 said:


> Meh, this seems to be canons new strategy. A stupidly absurd price for early adopters then dropping it quickly to the price they actually intend to sell it for. The 7D II and 5DSr both dropped significantly in price the first year. The 5Ds dropped even more. I would be surprised if you couldn't get the 5d4 for $2999 by Christmas.



What 'new strategy'?
If this is 'new' to you then you are not very aware of the world around you.


----------



## davidhfe (Aug 24, 2016)

smorgo said:


> Is anyone else bemused by the fact that this thread (and several of the others) seems to be half-filled with people with a sense of entitlement to own this new camera at whatever price they see fit?



Sure, there are a few folks who think it should be a $1999 camera. But that's not most of the people commenting on price. And it's not "entitlement" to look at the competitive landscape, feature set, and price drop of of the 1 series and wish that Canon launched closer to $3k.


----------



## Ozarker (Aug 24, 2016)

dilbert said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > ....
> ...



Why must a person with no children pay property taxes to support public schools or city services they don't use?

Why must car purchasers pay built in costs for warranties they may never use?

Volumn sales are the way profits are made.


----------



## KeithBreazeal (Aug 24, 2016)

I'm at a crossroad here. I still have my old 7D and use it only for the extra reach. The 5D IV's 30 MP sensor should be a fair crop match- or close enough. My 5D MIII is great but not extreme cropping is out. I bought the 5DS and I'm very pleased with the quality and it goes without saying that you can crop the hell out of it.
FPS is fairly important for 50% of my work, so I was a bit disappointed that the 5D IV isn't a bit faster- 10 fps would have overjoyed me. 
I bought Canon gear starting with the 40D and joined CPS a few years later. I've never had a camera totally fail. I sent a 50D in for a new shutter before it died. I broke a 10-22mm into several pieces.($59 repair!)
For me, it's all about quality and customer service. My 100-400's lock ring started sticking- $234 repair estimate. They wound up having to replace the entire inner barrel, resulting in a 11 day repair. They stuck with the initial estimate. The lens came back looking factory new and performed perfectly. That's why I like Canon.
I'll probably wait a few months and read all about the 5D IV's performance on the forum. If it performs to my highest expectations, I'll probably cleanup the old 7D and find it a new home. 
I hate to sell my children, but life goes on.


----------



## romangeber (Aug 24, 2016)

Ah yes, now I see why it's called the American dream (unless you're Canadian), and the European nightmare.


----------



## KeithBreazeal (Aug 24, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



Don't forget R & D costs. Those can be one of the highest corporate costs if you want to stay the world's leader.


----------



## nightscape123 (Aug 24, 2016)

Mikehit said:


> nightscape123 said:
> 
> 
> > Meh, this seems to be canons new strategy. A stupidly absurd price for early adopters then dropping it quickly to the price they actually intend to sell it for. The 7D II and 5DSr both dropped significantly in price the first year. The 5Ds dropped even more. I would be surprised if you couldn't get the 5d4 for $2999 by Christmas.
> ...



More like canon was not very aware. For instance the 5d III launched at $3500 and stayed at that price from 2012 until the beginning of 2015, barring 2-3 2 month rebate programs. it wasn't until the second half of 2015 that it saw a decrease to $3000 and then to $2500 a few months after that. Obviously i'm not counting illegal sales or used items which sold for less.

Newer cameras like the 5Ds launched at $3700 and dropped within 6 months to $3300 where it currently sits and $3100 for non-MAP prices. 

Or the 7DII which launched at $1800 and was reduced to $1400 just a few months later.

Obviously all prices drop eventually, it is just happening a lot faster than it used to. Canon bodies used to hold value better. This is similar to manufacturers like Sony who also launch sky high then bring the prices down rapidly.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 24, 2016)

Well based on the top half of this page, I won't be bothering to go back and catch up from the start. Yikes. It's a 5D Mark IV, folks. Some people just have unrealistic expectations about pricing. And it's not Canon's fault some of your native currencies have weakened competitively to the Yen to since the 5D3 came out. We may not like it, but it is what it is.

Further, Even if it cost Canon $200 in parts and labor to build a single camera unit, why sell it for $600 if a huge market share is more than willing to happily pay $1500? It's a business. They are in the money making business by way of producing imaging equipment that the majority of their target wants wants (clearly evidenced by sales volume and market share, no one else is close). If the market decides $3500 for a 5D4 is too high, lower than projected sales will reflect that and Canon will be forced to decide whether to keep it rolling at that level or reduce the price to increase sales whereby they can achieve the total profit margin they want.


----------



## scyrene (Aug 24, 2016)

unfocused said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...



Sadly true...


----------



## CanonGuy (Aug 24, 2016)

Kinda disappointed with the pricing. Sorry.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 24, 2016)

nightscape123 said:


> Obviously all prices drop eventually, it is just happening a lot faster than it used to. Canon bodies used to hold value better. This is similar to manufacturers like Sony who also launch sky high then bring the prices down rapidly.



Well yes, but the fall of the Yen against the dollar was mostly responsible. It has been rising back since then. AT the time the 5D3 came out, it was about 80 Yen : 1 USD. It fell as far as about 125 Yen : 1 USD. Huge drop. After it hung down there long enough for Canon to feel comfortable, the US prices started getting cut hard. Yen is back up around 100:1 now, so the prices of NEW releases are going to reflect it. If it was still 120 Yen and the outlook was steady or falling, the 5D4 would have most likely been released at a lower USD price point.


----------



## scyrene (Aug 24, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > Are you saying that when you take your camera on holiday, the airport staff check your serial numbers? Really??
> ...



That's interesting. But they're not checking where you bought it before you left, right?

I've not travelled abroad with my gear. I bought it legally within the UK from a British company, so I'm not concerned, but I am intrigued what others' experiences/the rules are.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 24, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> actually I know in canada, you are technically supposed to register any expensive stuff with customs before you leave the country, so when you come back into Canada. you have proof that you had it with you when you left.



In the US as well, filling out US CBP Form 4457 is recommended if you're taking new (<6 months old) gear abroad. I did it once before a trip to China, was something of a PITA to do beforehand (need to have the form signed off by customs before you leave) and wasn't needed upon our return.


----------



## smorgo (Aug 24, 2016)

scyrene said:


> Well, the best general advice is, buy the product that best fits your budget and best suits your needs. Waiting for a possible new replacement that hasn't been announced is a mug's game.



I specifically wanted WiFi and AF on a par with the MkIII, so there was nothing that truly suited my needs at the time. I'm glad I waited to be honest, even if it was a long wait.



> I bought most of my Canon equipment from the grey market, and saved tonnes. There are retailers in the UK who sort all the paperwork for you - it's legal, I assume they buy the gear from Asia and make a profit by adding a small markup. I dunno what the warranty situation is, but probably that's one of the downsides.



I have a colleague who bought a grey-market Macbook Pro from Singapore, saving a decent amount of money. The screen has just failed and he's footing the bill out of his own pocket. Total cost is significantly more than if he's bought it in the UK.

I have a 3 1/2 year old iMac and the screen failed recently. Thanks to the Sales of Goods Act in the UK, I'm covered for up to 6 years from the original purchase date. Apple replaced it FOC; a repair that took 3 days. Without the protection of UK consumer law, I'd have been looking at a bill of about £950. 

Even if a grey import is legal (as in, all duties and taxes paid), it doesn't mean it's a good investment.



> Are you saying that when you take your camera on holiday, the airport staff check your serial numbers? Really??



No, not personally. But when I worked for them, it was certainly presented as a possibility. It only has to happen once and you've lost your goods. We use a common formula for risk assessment: Risk = Probability * Exposure. Probability is low (but increases every time you cross the border), but Exposure is very high. For me, the overall risk is unacceptable. 

But that's just me and my priorities. I don't claim to represent anyone else.


----------



## K (Aug 24, 2016)

Maiaibing said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > I'm going to let all the suckers preorder it and pay Canon retail. (...) Once these nuts are out of the way and real end users become the market, the price will decrease as real end users are not in any hurry because they know the 5D4 isn't some solution to a problem. It's merely an evolutionary step up. I don't think any genuine photographer is going to lose a single penny by not instantly upgrading to the 5D4. Youtuber's do lose money. First reviews, most watches, most clicks --
> ...




I didn't bash the Youtubers. They will actually make money and justify paying the premium price. I'm sure some will get promos or loaners to do their reviews too.

The suckers are those who just buy to have latest and greatest. Just like computer gear, the latest always comes at a high premium, then quickly drops. But to each their own. I don't care how they choose to empty their wallets. More power to them. It doesn't change the fact that I can call them suckers.

You skipped a generation, you're a perfect buyer of this camera. Big leap for you. However, are you losing any money with the 5D2? I doubt it. Its output is still commercially viable for some time to come. What is bad about the 5D2 is that single card slot that could take a dump and ruin an event (if you shoot events) and piss off a client. A client with access to social media ready to share their horror story with other potential clients. Not a matter of if, but of when.


***********


I think Canon knows they have to offer a price drop a few months out. Therefore, in order to sell at the price they want which is $3,200 or maybe $3,300 ....they have to set the price at $3,500 to collect from the must-haves and to leave a buffer for price drop. Had they set the price to $3,200...they'd would just leave it at that for a full year and people would bash Canon saying "Canon doesn't drop the price even a dollar after a whole year" ...


Look at the 5DSR, from authorized retailers, it is still $3,700. The 5D4 is coming in at less than that, and it is a far, far more capable camera with the exception of ultra high resolution work.

Canon is really making people pay for those 50MP. Why, is subject to debate. Some will say there's less volume in sales for 50MP sensor and thus higher price. I doubt it, as it is still a FF sized sensor. I would say it has more to do with how Canon prices capabilities, not necessarily the cost of the hardware. You want a poor man's medium format? Bust out $3,700. The 5DSR is able to produce very serious results in the commercial photography business. It is a money making tool, and Canon charges for that. Real pros who can use such a camera to its max potential are charging big bucks for their work. That is why it is priced that way, and why these pros don't mind paying for it either.

The 5D4 is not going to be anyone's choice for product photography or certain commercial applications. The 5DSR has that covered. 5D4 is clearly an all-around, or general-purpose type setup that will be the go-to for non-sports events. AKA, weddings and the such. Who in that realm is losing money or customers because they have a 5D2 or 5D3? Nobody. It's nice to have, but not necessity. A product photographer does lose business if they can't produce industry standard results. Why so many run medium format setups. 5DSR offers entry into that realm.

While it might not be fair to compare this camera to older cameras on the market including those from Nikon, the fact still remains that many of these are very capable for shooting events and competing with this camera directly for much less money, despite being 1-3 years old.


----------



## smorgo (Aug 24, 2016)

scyrene said:


> That's interesting. But they're not checking where you bought it before you left, right?
> 
> I've not travelled abroad with my gear. I bought it legally within the UK from a British company, so I'm not concerned, but I am intrigued what others' experiences/the rules are.



To be on the safe side, I scan all of the receipts for my gear and keep them online. That way, if ever challenged, or if I need them for insurance purposes, they're readily to hand, wherever in the world I am.


----------



## doog (Aug 24, 2016)

smorgo said:


> that's the premium we pay for not having to be American. You get used to it.


----------



## scyrene (Aug 24, 2016)

smorgo said:


> I have a 3 1/2 year old iMac and the screen failed recently. Thanks to the Sales of Goods Act in the UK, I'm covered for up to 6 years from the original purchase date. Apple replaced it FOC; a repair that took 3 days. Without the protection of UK consumer law, I'd have been looking at a bill of about £950.
> 
> Even if a grey import is legal (as in, all duties and taxes paid), it doesn't mean it's a good investment.
> 
> ...



That's interesting. Six years is it?? I don't expect a laptop to last that long. Maybe I just have a more disposable attitude towards stuff... As in, I tend to sell stuff on and get newer things long before they break. Or else I'd get it sorted on my own insurance (I'd certainly never expect a manufacturer to fix something years later though - well done you for getting them to).

How do you prove the camera or whatever is yours, and not bought abroad? Are you meant to carry a receipt with you?


----------



## scyrene (Aug 24, 2016)

smorgo said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > That's interesting. But they're not checking where you bought it before you left, right?
> ...



I see. Well my receipts are all in email form anyway, I think, so I guess that's works out the same.


----------



## smorgo (Aug 24, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Why must a person with no children pay property taxes to support public schools or city services they don't use?



Precisely how is that an analogy for buying a camera? Who on earth is legally obliged to buy a 5D Mark IV?


----------



## docsmith (Aug 24, 2016)

KeithBreazeal said:


> I'm at a crossroad here. I still have my old 7D and use it only for the extra reach. The 5D IV's 30 MP sensor should be a fair crop match- or close enough. My 5D MIII is great but not extreme cropping is out. I bought the 5DS and I'm very pleased with the quality and it goes without saying that you can crop the hell out of it.
> FPS is fairly important for 50% of my work, so I was a bit disappointed that the 5D IV isn't a bit faster- 10 fps would have overjoyed me.



This is actually a very interesting question. In theory, the 5DIV will only give ~1.17 (6720/5760) more linear resolving power compared to the 5DIII. This is not much compared to the 1.6x crop factor. However, I have seen several people do actual side by side comparisons of their own or analyze online data and determine that the actual benefit of crop is much closer to 1.2x more true resolution.

Then, you have lensrentals evaluation comparing the 5DIII, 5Ds and 5DsR with different lenses. As I recall the average of the lens centers showed the 5DsR ~1.4 more resolving power than the 5DIII and the 5Ds was ~1.25 more resolving power (on average of the lenses). In theory, there should be 1.5x more resolving power.

https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2015/06/canon-5ds-and-5ds-r-initial-resolution-tests/

So true resolving power is not always ideal. But the 5DIV might be resolving similar detail to some of the latest crop sensor cameras. I would be reasonably confident the 5DIV will provide better detail than the 7D, despite it having more "pixels on target."


----------



## smorgo (Aug 24, 2016)

scyrene said:


> That's interesting. Six years is it?? I don't expect a laptop to last that long. Maybe I just have a more disposable attitude towards stuff...



The Sale of Goods Act is rather vague in this regard, 'up to' 6 years, which can work in your favour or not. It's the case that Apple's 'premium pricing' works in our favour, here. The wording in the act is that the goods should last for a 'reasonable length of time', taking into account the nature of the goods and their price. Apple's policy is to do the decent thing, without making a fuss. My local Apple service centre has had only one such claim rejected. Ever.

Not all vendors will be as supportive, but the point about the Act is that you can take your claim to court. Given the complaints about Canon's pricing, you could reasonably argue that it was a premium-priced product and also unreasonable for it to break down in a given period.

None of this is available to you if you buy from outside the EU, though.

Actually, in addition, did you know that under EU law, manufacturer warranties must now be two years, not one? Of course, us Brits are likely to lose that useful bit of protection before long...

So, just to be clear; the provision under the Sales of Goods Act is a right to claim for the cost of remedy (or a proportion). That's different to your warranty.


----------



## LoneRider (Aug 24, 2016)

Calling people who buy something when it first comes out "stupid", well, it's stupid. 

As far as the immediate price drop, well, according to camelcamelceml http://camelcamelcamel.com/Canon-Frame-Full-HD-Digital-Camera/product/B007FGYZFI?context=browse the 5Diii took close around 10 months before a big price drop in the US (more than $200).

And I believe there is A LOT of pentup demand for the 5Div, so unless Canon has significant production capability to overcome this demand, it is going to be a year before the price drops more than $200.

I still think these people are trying to sandbag us all not to pre-order so they can get theirs more quickly by getting us to wait


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 24, 2016)

scyrene said:


> That's interesting. Six years is it?? I don't expect a laptop to last that long.



Depends on the laptop. My 17" MacBook Pro is from 2011, so it's getting close...and performance is still more than good enough to meet my needs (with the switch from a 500 GB HDD to a 1 TB SSD). Actually, my previous 17" MacBook Pro is from 2006, and it still works just fine, and my kids use it when they need something bigger than an iPad (although in fairness, the 100 GB HDD did fail at one point...and now you know what happened to the 500 GB HDD that I pulled from the 2011 MBP  ).


----------



## athan (Aug 24, 2016)

I may have missed this, but everywhere it says 25:th of August the announcement will come. However, have we got confirmation on time (and what time zone)?


----------



## Buck (Aug 24, 2016)

if you believe the numbers, a 100% mark up between the manufacturer and the final retailer is not out of line for a consumer product. 
if you want to find out the real value of the product is wait until six months after the release and see if the price holds, look at what a six month old used camera is going for at Canon.com and on ebay.


----------



## Dave Del Real (Aug 24, 2016)

athan said:


> I may have missed this, but everywhere it says 25:th of August the announcement will come. However, have we got confirmation on time (and what time zone)?



Wondering the same thing. It's the 25th in Japan...


----------



## veryfelina (Aug 24, 2016)

You assume wrong. It already was bad enough to pay in euros the same amount as in USD but now this?! 3500 USD equals to 3100 euros and we'll have to pay 3700 euros?! I'm pissed as hell!


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 24, 2016)

athan said:


> I may have missed this, but everywhere it says 25:th of August the announcement will come. However, have we got confirmation on time (and what time zone)?



it's usualy 8-9am Amsterdam time.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 24, 2016)

Dave Del Real said:


> athan said:
> 
> 
> > I may have missed this, but everywhere it says 25:th of August the announcement will come. However, have we got confirmation on time (and what time zone)?
> ...



Yeah, 4 o'clock in the morning on the 25th in Japan...

I've typically seen Canon USA announcements and Canon UK/Europe announcements hit concurrently, just before the start of business in the EU so in the middle of the night on the East Coast.


----------



## Dave Del Real (Aug 24, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> athan said:
> 
> 
> > I may have missed this, but everywhere it says 25:th of August the announcement will come. However, have we got confirmation on time (and what time zone)?
> ...



Wow, that's still 11-12 hours away. Would be the 26th in Japan.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 24, 2016)

Dave Del Real said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > athan said:
> ...



actually would be 2pm or so Japan time.

the time works for 2/3's of their market. next to impossible to get one time that works for everyone.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 24, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> actually would be 2pm or so Japan time.
> 
> the time works for 2/3's of their market. next to impossible to get one time that works for everyone.



Yeah...I once led a team with members in Seattle, Boston, Rome, and Tokyo. Made VCs a bit of a challenge... OTOH, you can look at it from the glass half full viewpoint – as Jimmy Buffett sang, it's 5 o'clock somewhere.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 24, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > actually would be 2pm or so Japan time.
> ...



ouch .. lol .. some did without sleep.


----------



## Dave Del Real (Aug 24, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> Dave Del Real said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



My world clock says it's 9:18 am in Amsterdam and 4:18 am in Japan right now. So that would make it 4pm on the 26th in Japan according to your statement.


----------



## Famateur (Aug 24, 2016)

Just saw the price confirmation update. Speaking only in terms of US dollars, it seems like a good price to me. Inflation adjusted, it's cheaper than the Mark III several years ago. Better camera, better price, Papa J---- I mean, uh, seems like a winner.

Of course, we'd all love to see a _great _price. 

Business is business, though, and considering how well the Mark III sold, despite the moaning over the huge leap in price from the Mark II, I can't see much reason to complain about the Mark IV price (again, speaking in terms of US dollars).

Still, it's out of my budget for a while. Now, if there was a Canon full-frame equivalent of the 80D for around $2,500...


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 24, 2016)

Dave Del Real said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Dave Del Real said:
> ...



i was off an hour.. 

8:00 AM Wednesday, in Amsterdam, Netherlands is 3:00 PM Wednesday, in Tokyo, Japan

Good lord.. it still isn't "Wow, that's still 11-12 hours away. Would be the 26th in Japan."


----------



## Dave Del Real (Aug 24, 2016)

It would be 3pm Thursday (26th) in Japan and that seems late in the day for an announcement.


----------



## sdsr (Aug 24, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> Further, Even if it cost Canon $200 in parts and labor to build a single camera unit, why sell it for $600 if a huge market share is more than willing to happily pay $1500?



This has is separate from your basic point, and you probably don't mean to suggest that "parts and labor" of assembly represent full extent of the cost of making a camera, but some complaints about the price of cameras around here (and elsewhere) remind me of complaints people often used to make about CDs: "Why do I have to pay $15 for a CD when the cost of manufacturing a CD is 30c?" The cost of hiring (say) the Berlin Philharmonic, conductor, soloists, recording venue, recording engineers and editors, etc., never seemed to be considered.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 24, 2016)

Dave Del Real said:


> My world clock says it's 9:18 am in Amsterdam and 4:18 am in Japan right now. So that would make it 4pm on the 26th in Japan according to your statement.



Then you have a broken world clock, or a correctly functioning world clock that you don't know how to read. Because at 12:18p PDT or 3:18p EDT (which was the time stamp on your post), it was 9:18 *PM* in Amsterdam.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 24, 2016)

Dave Del Real said:


> It would be 3pm Thursday (26th) in Japan and that seems late in the day for an announcement.



thursday is the 25th.

and that's the way they've always done it from my recollection.


----------



## Dave Del Real (Aug 24, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> Dave Del Real said:
> 
> 
> > It would be 3pm Thursday (26th) in Japan and that seems late in the day for an announcement.
> ...



Right but it would be Friday the 26th in Japan.


----------



## nightscape123 (Aug 24, 2016)

I'm surprised there is no leaked announcement... We usually get it at least a day ahead. Guess canon has really locked up tight for this one. 

Well not too much longer now anyway, should be an exciting day tomorrow. I hope we get the MTF's for the lenses too.


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 24, 2016)

nightscape123 said:


> I'm surprised there is no leaked announcement... We usually get it at least a day ahead. Guess canon has really locked up tight for this one.
> 
> Well not too much longer now anyway, should be an exciting day tomorrow. I hope we get the MTF's for the lenses too.



Yeah nothing. Except for the entire leaked specs, leaked images, leaked announcement and release dates, and leaked pricing info, we haven't heard jack Sh!t :


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 24, 2016)

sdsr said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > Further, Even if it cost Canon $200 in parts and labor to build a single camera unit, why sell it for $600 if a huge market share is more than willing to happily pay $1500?
> ...



I was just trying to over simplify the per unit actual costs, not the sunk costs of other associated R&D etc.. I was also simply trying to make a point that what it costs a company to make a product is not some unit of standard measure to determine what the profit margin is. If it costs Canon $10 to mass produce each 1DX2 and they can sell them all day long for $6000, it does NOT matter. Someone may think it "Not Fair" or whatever... but as long as they are selling the units they want to sell, they don't really care about anyone's moaning and whining about it, nor should they.


----------



## xps (Aug 24, 2016)

Received an untrustworthy offer from an retailercompany. It is possible to hold this brand new cam 7 days after starting shipment in my hands. There are "millions" of reservations worldwide. So the body will be sold out for month. See Sony.... The price for this body will be 3900€ :

BTW: DPreview will tell us their opinion about the Mk IV immediatly after the announcement. I am curious how heavy the criticism will be. Which fly in the ointment they will find, despite to less DR. (Yes, its no Sony. I know).


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 24, 2016)

Dave Del Real said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Dave Del Real said:
> ...



Sorry, but you seem temporally challenged. 

Thu 8/25 12:00a San Francisco (that's midnight, in case you didn't know)
Thu 8/25 03:00a Boston
Thu 8/25 09:00a Amsterdam
Thu 8/25 04:00p Tokyo

BTW, there's this thing called the Internet where you can look all this stuff up!


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 24, 2016)

Dave Del Real said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Dave Del Real said:
> ...



good grief.

August 25, 8am netherlands is August 25, 3pm Japan time.


----------



## jayphotoworks (Aug 24, 2016)

Looks like I won't be in line for one at launch, so I guess that's one less person to fight for the pre-orders. I'll wait until Photokina is completely done before deciding which bits of my kit to upgrade this year or next. I usually never jump the gun on a Photokina cycle year and I recommend others do the same!


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 24, 2016)

nightscape123 said:


> I'm surprised there is no leaked announcement... We usually get it at least a day ahead. Guess canon has really locked up tight for this one.
> 
> Well not too much longer now anyway, should be an exciting day tomorrow. I hope we get the MTF's for the lenses too.



I'm pretty sure we usually see it hours in advance not day(s).


----------



## scyrene (Aug 24, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > That's interesting. Six years is it?? I don't expect a laptop to last that long.
> ...



Point taken  I tend to batter mine. I use them for several hours every day, and they get a bit knocked about. Actually my first one still worked after six years, but it didn't have the capabilties I needed by then. And I've upgraded the internal bits of MacBooks, that can lengthen their lives. I suppose what I mean is, I expect them to fall behind in processing power until I get a new one, maybe after 3-4 years. For instance, getting the 5Ds, suddenly this one is struggling a bit, and I'll probably get something newer before it properly dies...


----------



## nightscape123 (Aug 24, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> nightscape123 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm surprised there is no leaked announcement... We usually get it at least a day ahead. Guess canon has really locked up tight for this one.
> ...



Those are less leaked and more controlled releases imo. Slowly released over a few days, spread apart, high quality release photos not cell phone snaps. Those "leaks" are just hype generation done by canon. Usually right around now the news release will actually leak since they have to give it to news stations before hand generally. Though I guess there is still time for that to happen. But at <24 hours it really doesn't matter a whole lot.


----------



## Dave Del Real (Aug 24, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> Dave Del Real said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...




Oops. My bad people, my bad. I guess I just got lost in the excitement. Forgive my lapse.


----------



## Dave Del Real (Aug 24, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Dave Del Real said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



Yep, see apology above.


----------



## johnhenry (Aug 24, 2016)

So for paying an extra $1.4 K, I get a camera with 4K video but lower resolution than a 5 DSr.

Somehow I think the 5D IV is a bit outdated even before coming out. Like they are trying to keep people from jumping brands while they slowly milk money out of us for buggy/poor featured cameras, so we can plunk down another 3K every 3 years.

No thanks, Canon.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 24, 2016)

Not sure if this surfaced prior but at today's CAD exchange the US price is high by a couple hundred bucks so maybe some cross border shopping will yield bargains. Happy to see our price isn't too bad.

Jack


----------



## smorgo (Aug 24, 2016)

veryfelina said:


> You assume wrong. It already was bad enough to pay in euros the same amount as in USD but now this?! 3500 USD equals to 3100 euros and we'll have to pay 3700 euros?! I'm pissed as hell!



Oh good grief, how many times?

US prices are quoted excluding sales tax, which varies from state-to-state.

EU prices include VAT, which is around 19-20%. 3100 EUR + VAT is (roughly) 3700 EUR.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 24, 2016)

johnhenry said:


> So for paying an extra $1.4 K, I get a camera with 4K video but lower resolution than a 5 DSr.
> 
> Somehow I think the 5D IV is a bit outdated even before coming out. Like they are trying to keep people from jumping brands while they slowly milk money out of us for buggy/poor featured cameras, so we can plunk down another 3K every 3 years.
> 
> No thanks, Canon.



well, bhphotovideo is selling the 5ds at actually more than the 5D Mark IV will come out at. (200 usd)

same with henry's in canada... 400 CAD more for the 5Ds.

the 5ds in europe is 3300 versus 3700 for the 5D IV (the biggest discrepancy)

not sure where 1.4K is coming from?

where are you?

keep in mind the "confirmed" price right now only seems to be US and Canada. the Euro price was from another rumor.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 24, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> johnhenry said:
> 
> 
> > So for paying an extra $1.4 K, I get a camera with 4K video but lower resolution than a 5 DSr.
> ...



I assume $1.4 K more relative to the 5DIII.


----------



## rrcphoto (Aug 24, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > johnhenry said:
> ...



oh maybe.

so one of "those" that compare EOL pricing versus MSRP announcement pricing...


----------



## Dave Del Real (Aug 24, 2016)

I wonder if there will be a price drop to the 5DS/R series?


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 24, 2016)

johnhenry said:


> Somehow I think the 5D IV is a bit outdated even before coming out. Like they are trying to keep people from jumping brands while they slowly milk money out of us for buggy/poor featured cameras, so we can plunk down another 3K every 3 years.
> No thanks, Canon.



No one is forcing you or anyone else to, so don't. But the biggest segment by far of professional users, use Canon and will likely continue and find the 5D4 to be an excellent upgrade, because they understand specs on paper don't mean a damn thing for them. 

And "buggy" ? Seriously? 5 Body is one of the most reliable and durable units out there. Did you have persistent problems? What do you own?


----------



## Famateur (Aug 24, 2016)

Anyone else just excited that the official announcement of a Canon 5D Mark IV is imminent? 

Been following threads on this forum for years, and it's fun when thousands of posts of speculation, arguing and hypothesizing finally give way to the real deal -- in the flesh, as it were.

Fun times.


----------



## frankchn (Aug 24, 2016)

kraats said:


> Lol, the camera is 700 euros more expensive in Europe when compared to the US. Why is that?



Sales tax included in EUR pricing but not for USD pricing. USD 3500 => 3107 EUR. Add the 19% VAT for Germany and you get 3697 EUR, right in line with the 3700 EUR rumors.


----------



## Dave Del Real (Aug 24, 2016)

Has there been any mention of clean HDMI out?


----------



## Dave Del Real (Aug 24, 2016)

Famateur said:


> Anyone else just excited that the official announcement of a Canon 5D Mark IV is imminent?



Yes, so much so that I lost my head for a minute on time zones...


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 24, 2016)

frankchn said:


> kraats said:
> 
> 
> > Lol, the camera is 700 euros more expensive in Europe when compared to the US. Why is that?
> ...



And here in Louisiana (in my town), we now have a 10% sales tax (obscene). Which would make a $3500 purchase actual cost of $3850. Or I just buy it on Amazon or BHPhoto and pay no sales tax, which is the wiser option.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 24, 2016)

kraats said:


> Lol, the camera is 700 euros more expensive in Europe when compared to the US. Why is that?



Well, it's either because Canon hates Europeans and wants them to suffer, or for the far more logical explanation that has already been stated about a dozen times in this thread. You pick.


----------



## wockawocka (Aug 24, 2016)

I don't know about your guys but yeah, I'm excited. If that refocusing tech is really all that it'll change my couple shots completely.

Shot couple shots at 1.6, create two planes of focus across two exported tiff files then recombine them in photoshop. Everything fairly soft except for the eyes.

It'll make the 50L usable again too ;D


----------



## Famateur (Aug 24, 2016)

Dave Del Real said:


> Famateur said:
> 
> 
> > Anyone else just excited that the official announcement of a Canon 5D Mark IV is imminent?
> ...



LOL...saw that. We're all human. 

Except maybe Surapon. He's super-human...


----------



## CanoKnight (Aug 25, 2016)

kraats said:


> Lol, the camera is 700 euros more expensive in Europe when compared to the US. Why is that?



Gotta feed those refugees.


----------



## LoneRider (Aug 25, 2016)

CanoKnight said:


> kraats said:
> 
> 
> > Lol, the camera is 700 euros more expensive in Europe when compared to the US. Why is that?
> ...



Low blow, but bloody funny at the same time.

So what are we talking about again??


----------



## deorum (Aug 25, 2016)

25/8 today is the day?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

deorum said:


> 25/8 today is the day?



Well, that all depends on your time zone. ;D

(sorry, Dave, couldn't resist!)


----------



## Dave Del Real (Aug 25, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> deorum said:
> 
> 
> > 25/8 today is the day?
> ...



LOL...all good. ;D


----------



## squarebox (Aug 25, 2016)

Price in Japan was confirmed at $4200 USD (420,000 JPY)... so again I'll be buying my 5d from the states and shipping it over.


----------



## canon1dxman (Aug 25, 2016)

£3599 in UK......$3499 US. 

Thanks Brexit. No chance for the time being. £1500 or so more gets you a 1DXII


----------



## Sharlin (Aug 25, 2016)

Now available for preorder in Finnish stores... for the cheap, cheap price of €4239  That's $4780 or so. Obviously including taxes (24% VAT ftw) but still there's a markup of a couple hundred euros.


----------



## Mikehit (Aug 25, 2016)

From past experience the 'pre-order' price is sometimes hoiked to make sure that the actual price when it comes in is lower, and if it is lower the person pre-ordering gets it at the actual price.


----------



## aa_angus (Aug 25, 2016)

How long does it typically take until the first price drop? I bought my mark 3 very soon to it's release date, it was already $800 AUD cheaper than it was for those who pre ordered.


----------



## smorgo (Aug 25, 2016)

I seem to be a few grand poorer after my walk into town this morning.

:


----------



## Mikehit (Aug 25, 2016)

aa_angus said:


> How long does it typically take until the first price drop? I bought my mark 3 very soon to it's release date, it was already $800 AUD cheaper than it was for those who pre ordered.




Until recently the price on the shelf would be about 10% less than the announcement price but thing seem to have changed recently. 

IIRC the 1DX2 was announced at 5,999 and it still is. And I guess it partly depends on the competition and stock levels vs sales. I guess the 5DIV is in a higher competition segment of the market so we could see price drops quicker.


----------



## Dick (Aug 25, 2016)

Sharlin said:


> Now available for preorder in Finnish stores... for the cheap, cheap price of €4239  That's $4780 or so. Obviously including taxes (24% VAT ftw) but still there's a markup of a couple hundred euros.



That's beyond ridiculous. I want the body, but definitely not that much. That is over 1000€ more than what my 5D3 cost when I bought it pretty much straight after its release in Finland.


----------



## aa_angus (Aug 25, 2016)

smorgo said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > Why must a person with no children pay property taxes to support public schools or city services they don't use?
> ...



Who on Earth is legally obligated to have children?


----------



## candyman (Aug 25, 2016)

Sharlin said:


> Now available for preorder in Finnish stores... for the cheap, cheap price of €4239  That's $4780 or so. Obviously including taxes (24% VAT ftw) but still there's a markup of a couple hundred euros.




Not has high as in Finland, but the Netherlands you can place a pre-order for €4129 (includes 21% VAT)
According to the dealer it will be in the shop on September 8th


EDIT: Oh, I bought my 5D MKIII 6 months after its release for about €550 less than launchprice. If this will have the same route, than even after 6 months the 5D MK IV will be north of €3500. That is not a price I would buy it for.


I believe that the launchprice €4129 for the 5D MK IV is a strong indicator of a higher price for the 6D MKII


----------



## midluk (Aug 25, 2016)

candyman said:


> I believe that the launchprice €4129 for the 5D MK IV is a strong indicator of a higher price for the 6D MKII



Not only that. It is also an indicator that the price for second hand 5D3 will not drop as much as everybody hopes.


----------



## Memdroid (Aug 25, 2016)

I am almost positive that the price is this steep to get rid of the *large* 5D3 stock first at a premium. 
When the the 5D3 stock is low or diminished the prices will come down eventually.


----------



## Eldar (Aug 25, 2016)

I suggest all of us Europeans boycott this European over pricing, by holding our orders. 

In Norway it is priced at NOK40.599,-, which is about $4.933 (incl. 25% VAT). That gives a 1.4x multiplication factor to the US price. Comparably, 5DSR is priced at NOK32.595,-, which gives a 1,1x multiplication factor. 

If I want it I can afford it, but I hate being ripped off. So Canon; I'll pass!


----------



## smorgo (Aug 25, 2016)

Eldar said:


> I suggest all of us Europeans boycott this European over pricing, by holding our orders.



Aw, damn it! I'm too late, sorry. There's nothing I like more than cutting off my nose to spite my face.


----------



## tron (Aug 25, 2016)

Eldar said:


> I suggest all of us Europeans boycott this European over pricing, by holding our orders.
> 
> In Norway it is priced at NOK40.599,-, which is about $4.933 (incl. 25% VAT). That gives a 1.4x multiplication factor to the US price. Comparably, 5DSR is priced at NOK32.595,-, which gives a 1,1x multiplication factor.
> 
> If I want it I can afford it, but I hate being ripped off. So Canon; I'll pass!


+1 Anyway the delay can be used for any possible bug to appear and be corrected


----------



## Maiaibing (Aug 25, 2016)

Eldar said:


> I suggest all of us Europeans boycott this European over pricing, by holding our orders.
> 
> In Norway it is priced at NOK40.599,-, which is about $4.933 (incl. 25% VAT). That gives a 1.4x multiplication factor to the US price. Comparably, 5DSR is priced at NOK32.595,-, which gives a 1,1x multiplication factor.
> 
> If I want it I can afford it, but I hate being ripped off. So Canon; I'll pass!


Checked the price in Denmark: 3.860 USD (*without *tax).

Somewhat more than the US price. Fortunately, I don't live there so can "enjoy" the US pricing. Still, I'm on the fence with buying a 5DIV now or later (after prices begin to drop).


----------



## kaihp (Aug 25, 2016)

Maiaibing said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > I suggest all of us Europeans boycott this European over pricing, by holding our orders.
> ...



Please keep in mind that you have to pay the VAT up-front and either get reimbursed through GlobalBlue (which takes a very healthy cut on your VAT saving) _or_ show the invoice + goods + proof that you're exporting it out of the EU to the tax officers in the airport and then mail the stamped invoice back to the shop to get your VAT back.
Trust me on this. I did it several times when I lived in China 

Eldar: you can save a whopping ~900NOK by buying the 5D4 in Denmark. Almost enough to pay for the boat trip to Copenhagen ;D


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## Maiaibing (Aug 25, 2016)

kaihp said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > Eldar said:
> ...


You can actually avoid Global Blue etc. and get 100% refund directly from the shops just check with the shops before you buy - I travel globally and do it all the time. Can make buying stuff in Europe cheaper than the US. That's in fact how I landed a "cheap" 5DS/R (+also a good discount).


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## Eldar (Aug 25, 2016)

kaihp said:


> Eldar: you can save a whopping ~900NOK by buying the 5D4 in Denmark. Almost enough to pay for the boat trip to Copenhagen ;D


I travel to the US often enough, so I can buy it there, but that is not the issue. I can afford to buy it in Norway. The issue is that Canon is segregating their market and charge Europeans and especially Norwegians, a lot more than Americans. And I hate being ripped off. When I can order the camera from B&H, have them ship it to Norway, pay for freight and all taxes and still save +$600, something is totally wrong!


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

Eldar said:


> The issue is that Canon is segregating their market and charge Europeans and especially Norwegians, a lot more than Americans.



Maybe someone at Canon HQ was looking at a certain wikipedia page.


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## Eldar (Aug 25, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > The issue is that Canon is segregating their market and charge Europeans and especially Norwegians, a lot more than Americans.
> ...


Of course they do. However, the US is as black as Norway on that map. I'm sure they will sell loads of 5DIVs, but not to me, that's all.


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## paxfoto (Aug 25, 2016)

Eldar said:


> I suggest all of us Europeans boycott this European over pricing, by holding our orders.
> 
> In Norway it is priced at NOK40.599,-, which is about $4.933 (incl. 25% VAT). That gives a 1.4x multiplication factor to the US price. Comparably, 5DSR is priced at NOK32.595,-, which gives a 1,1x multiplication factor.
> 
> If I want it I can afford it, but I hate being ripped off. So Canon; I'll pass!



+1 I saw this today and said "not for me" . I can get VAT refunded, but it is still to expensive. I will wait for 6D II or Sony A7III


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 25, 2016)

Eldar said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Eldar said:
> ...



Yeah, but the PC-GDP is close to $Int 13K higher in Norway...so Canon figures you can take the NOK. Ba dum bum rimshot.


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## Eldar (Aug 25, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...


Well, the UK is not that high on the PC-GDP list, but they are still charged the equivalent of $4750 ...


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## kaihp (Aug 25, 2016)

dilbert said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


I've done this multiple times with Photografica in Copenhagen, when I lived in China. Like I wrote above (and Maiaibing cut away), you need to get your invoice stamping by the customs and send it back to the shop. They can then refund the full amount to your credit card or bank account.

Talk to Eric (the owner).


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## kaihp (Aug 25, 2016)

Eldar said:


> kaihp said:
> 
> 
> > Eldar: you can save a whopping ~900NOK by buying the 5D4 in Denmark. Almost enough to pay for the boat trip to Copenhagen ;D
> ...


Apologies for not putting the /sarcasm tag in there, Eldar.
I'm totally with you on hating getting ripped off.


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## Maiaibing (Aug 25, 2016)

dilbert said:


> Maiaibing said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


Almost all Danish and Swedish web shops. Just drop them a mail first and ask before you place your order. Goecker.dk is one (rarely the cheapest). They need a custom's stamp on your invoice from the customs office at the airport. Invoice should have your passport number and address outside of the EU on it - but you can write that yourself.


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## Diko (Aug 25, 2016)

Sorry will ask here as well? 

1/ Do you onow a decent european grey market reseller?
Or
2/ Is it truth I can purchase from ttbe states and ask to deliver to London and not paying VAT (Subject to some agreenment)?


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## Eldar (Aug 26, 2016)

kaihp said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > kaihp said:
> ...


My fault, I should have read your post better 

However, to import instead of buying locally is not a bad idea. If I order it from the US, B&H or any of the others, pay for shipment and all taxes, I will save NOK5.000/$600 ... It is as if Canon has missed the fact that web shopping is international ...


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## Mikehit (Aug 26, 2016)

Diko said:


> Sorry will ask here as well?
> 
> 1/ Do you onow a decent european grey market reseller?
> Or
> 2/ Is it truth I can purchase from ttbe states and ask to deliver to London and not paying VAT (Subject to some agreenment)?



I have bought from HDEW - they do not sell the full range but the ones the do sell are significantly cheaper. HEW are by all accounts UK based and totally legit regards importation and ship from within UK. And their 3-year warranty is arranged with the same company that Canon use. HDEW at totally up front about this and will provide a VAT invoice if you ask for one.
I don't know how quickly they get hold of new models, though.

There are some operations that are based overseas (often Hong Kong/China) and any UK address is simply a drop box for show. They send the camera without paying the VAT and if customs spot it the seller pays it on your behalf. Other wise they rely on enough getting through to maintain their profit margins. If you ask for a VAT invoice you often get a woolly reply that sidesteps the issue.

Regards buying from US, whenever I have done so I have got a bill for import duty and VAT. IIRC the VAT is payable by the importer and whenever I have done it the courier will not release from customs until it is paid.
Commercial goods and services can be subject to a 'reverse charge' agreement where tax is not payable to the seller (based in this case in the US) but I don't think is relevant. Unless you get solid advice to the contrary I would work on the assumption that customs will invoice you.


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## Diko (Aug 26, 2016)

Mikehit said:


> Diko said:
> 
> 
> > Sorry will ask here as well?
> ...


 One big Thanks for the complete answer!


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## Viggo (Aug 26, 2016)

If I wanted the 5d4 and the 16-35 III, it's 8100 USD here in Norway. That's harsh


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## Diko (Aug 26, 2016)

Mikehit said:


> I have bought from HDEW - they do not sell the full range but the ones the do sell are significantly cheaper. HEW are by all accounts UK based and totally legit regards importation and ship from within UK. And their 3-year warranty is arranged with the same company that Canon use. HDEW at totally up front about this and will provide a VAT invoice if you ask for one.


 Do you happened to know if they have some *Black Friday* additional off the prices? 

Should I wait or order right away?


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## Bennymiata (Aug 26, 2016)

In Australia, the 5d4 is being offered for A$4988.00 (US $3807.80) at a chain brick and mortar retailer which includes a 10% tax, so it's not so bad compared to the US.
High taxes and high labour rates in Europe do make their cost base higher than it is in other places, but then again, Europeans get free medical whereas Americans pay dearly for the sort of health cover that Europeans and Australians take for granted.


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## Ian_of_glos (Aug 26, 2016)

Bennymiata said:


> In Australia, the 5d4 is being offered for A$4988.00 (US $3807.80) at a chain brick and mortar retailer which includes a 10% tax, so it's not so bad compared to the US.
> High taxes and high labour rates in Europe do make their cost base higher than it is in other places, but then again, Europeans get free medical whereas Americans pay dearly for the sort of health cover that Europeans and Australians take for granted.


The price difference cannot be explained just by the addition of VAT.
In the UK the rate of VAT is 20% - so based on the US price of $3,499 for the 5D mk4 the price with VAT should be around $4,200 US Dollars.
In the UK we are being charged £3,599 for the camera, which is equivalent to around $4,755 US dollars. So why the additional $555 on top of the price that is charged in the USA?
I seem to remember the same thing happened when the 200-400 F4 was announced. The price in the US was $11,000 and the price in the UK was £11,000. However it reduced after a few months.
So my advice to anyone living in the UK or Europe who wants to buy a 5D mk4 is to wait and see. I am optimistic that the price will drop to a more reasonable level before long.


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## Flamingtree (Aug 26, 2016)

Bennymiata said:


> In Australia, the 5d4 is being offered for A$4988.00 (US $3807.80) at a chain brick and mortar retailer which includes a 10% tax, so it's not so bad compared to the US.
> High taxes and high labour rates in Europe do make their cost base higher than it is in other places, but then again, Europeans get free medical whereas Americans pay dearly for the sort of health cover that Europeans and Australians take for granted.



Which shop is that?


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## GMCPhotographics (Aug 26, 2016)

In the UK, all the retailers will sell at the RRP. Canon usually hikes up the RRP in the UK, assuming the retailers will discount from that price. But the retailers will initially sell at full RRP because of the low initial supply from Canon. I think the logic goes something like this...I have 10 buyers for a 1D4, but Canon will only supply one per week. The 10 buyers will go to who ever has stock...so why discount. Having stock is a certain sale at RRP anyhow. As soon as every shop has copies on their shelves and the initial commotion is over, then the retailers have to start to discount to attract buyers. Ie...the shop down the road is selling one for 5% less...can you price match or do better? So the real price doesn't stabilise until the retailers have stock sitting on their shelves for a few weeks. I think that'll be around January / February time.


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## LukasS (Aug 26, 2016)

In Poland big retailers have the item on preorder for 4600 USD (incl. 23% VAT). It seems Polish are wealthier than most.


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## Mikehit (Aug 26, 2016)

Diko said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > I have bought from HDEW - they do not sell the full range but the ones the do sell are significantly cheaper. HEW are by all accounts UK based and totally legit regards importation and ship from within UK. And their 3-year warranty is arranged with the same company that Canon use. HDEW at totally up front about this and will provide a VAT invoice if you ask for one.
> ...



I've never seen a Black Friday sale on their site but that does not mean they don't have them. 

The staff are very helpful so it may be worth asking them when they expect to get the 5D4.


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## tron (Aug 26, 2016)

Mikehit said:


> Diko said:
> 
> 
> > Mikehit said:
> ...


I have bought some from them in the past. But now I see that for 5DsR they increase the price all the time. It went from 2299 to 2399 to 2449. Plus the price of pound has been steadied/increased a little. On the other hand other products do not increase in price. So I refuse to take part in this rally. But yes they are trustworthy.


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## davidmurray (Aug 26, 2016)

romanr74 said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > rrcphoto said:
> ...



I wasn't aware that "concepts" were based on colour.

Please do tell us what this red "concept" is, without foaming or otherwise dragging this down into the political sewer. (which is banned here)

I accept that Canon is acting to protect higher prices in the market by restricting who can advertise the price of Canon products.

We know the public thinks those prices are too high by the mere fact that most retailers selling Canon cameras don't stock full frame cameras. Only certain outlets do that.

Just try getting a full frame Canon or Nikon camera from JB HIFI or Noel Learning or Bond and Bond. They sell plenty of cameras, but do not stock 5D, 6D, or 1D variants.

Those are the shops that most consumers are likely to first go to when looking to buy consumer electronics (which is what all these cameras are).

If the retail price here doesn't come down to a realistic price for a camera body then I'll most likely buy from a grey market importer. I mean, the likelihood of the camera failing within the warranty period is low, and I don't NEED to replace my low mileage 5D3.

The price differential is significant, and I cannot justify the additional cost just to get a local Canon warranty when the Consumer Guarantees Act requires that the goods be fit for purpose and I'll be within my rights to take it back to the grey market shop I bought it from.


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## Teknon (Aug 27, 2016)

I got an email from canon Australia with the following local prices:

EOS 5D Mark IV, body only, AUD$5,699.00 = *US$4,310.52*
Body with EF 24-70 f2.8L II USM lens, AUD$8,399.00 = *US$6,352.72*

They are marking up the price of the body by *US$800* over the USA price. 

I am disgusted, and not surprised they have a grey import problem.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 27, 2016)

dilbert said:


> From a consumer perspective, if Canon can find ways to save money and lower costs then I expect that to be reflected in lower prices of their goods.



Having that expectation is your prerogative. However, Canon's expecations about what should be done with any savings from lower costs likely differ from yours, and since Canon sets the prices for their products, your personal expectations are totally meaningless to anyone but you.


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## deadwrong (Aug 27, 2016)

4600$ in Canada. 

3200 for 5dmark3 - hmmm....

Guess i will be watching the 6dii speculation thread.


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## Eldar (Aug 27, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > From a consumer perspective, if Canon can find ways to save money and lower costs then I expect that to be reflected in lower prices of their goods.
> ...


Since we´re not following the "red" model, where the price of a product is a direct reflection of the cost to produce, we have to live in a market driven model. When Apple launch a new iPhone, what happens to the price? The previous model drops and the new is introduced at a much higher price. Does that have anything to do with Apple´s cost of producing and distributing? Of course not. The base logic in Canon´s case is no different.

However, Apple is pricing their products pretty equally around the globe. In Norway, the difference to a US price (ex tax) is the VAT, +/- a currency fluctuation buffer. The problem with Canon is that they are using massive price differences around the globe, which I do not accept. But all I can do is to be loud and clear about my discontent and not buy. If enough people did that, especially the "not buy" thing, Canon may listen and do something about it. I am not very optimistic though.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 27, 2016)

Eldar said:


> The problem with Canon is that they are using massive price differences around the globe, which I do not accept. But all I can do is to be loud and clear about my discontent and not buy. If enough people did that, especially the "not buy" thing, Canon may listen and do something about it. I am not very optimistic though.



You certainly don't have to accept it, but it's Canon's prerogative to charge what they want, where they want. But because they can, it doesn't follow that they should. Since I've previously designated BS as a term applied to DxO's Scores, perhaps we can label Canon's global differential pricing extortion policy a pile of dung. 

I do sort of wonder, though, if Canon Global/HQ is at the root of it. How much autonomy do country-level subsidiaries have? Canon USA decided not to sell or service the M2, and initially did not sell or service some of the EF-M lenses, for example. So is the problem in your case Canon, or specifically Canon Norway? Not that it matters in the end, I suppose – but voting with your wallet is the best way to send a message.


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## Eldar (Aug 27, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > The problem with Canon is that they are using massive price differences around the globe, which I do not accept. But all I can do is to be loud and clear about my discontent and not buy. If enough people did that, especially the "not buy" thing, Canon may listen and do something about it. I am not very optimistic though.
> ...


I am confident that these decisions are made in HQ or maybe at the nest regional level, in our case Europe (even the CFast-card deal for the 1DX-II was controlled and (hopelessly) administered from the European HQ). If you subtract the various VATs around, you´ll see that the European prices are pretty conform. In Norway we have longer warranties and a stronger customer protection, which adds a little to our price and there are a few others with the same. But I have seen the prices for Poland, Finland, UK, Germany, Switzerland, Norway, Sweden and Denmark (at least) and they are pretty much same same.

But to be fair, having made a couple of comparisons to Nikon and Sony, they are no better. A D810 is $2.796,95 at B&H and is priced at $3.840 here. A Sony A7R-II is $3.198 at B&H and $4.207 here. So from that perspective, Canon is just doing what the others are doing. However, when launching the 5DIII, 1DX, 7DII, 5DS/R and 1DX-II, we saw a multiplication factor of about 10x from the USD price to the NOK price, which is reasonable. For the 5DIV, that has turned to 12x.


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## Diko (Aug 27, 2016)

Eldar said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Eldar said:
> ...



What is hidden under ghe abbreviation of NOK?


Canon is the bigest "of them all". That means it's normal for them to have grey market issues. I wonder how are the things in the NIKON camp. 

However I will vote with my vote NOT by not buying, but instead by byuing from the grey market. 

As for the autonomy thing I will take the liberty to speculate that generally speaking the the biggest possible autonomy is on continental level. However the world advertising (please note I refrain from using "Marketing") is mainly coming from the US.


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## Eldar (Aug 27, 2016)

Diko said:


> What is hidden under ghe abbreviation of NOK?


NOrwegian Kroner = 8,2NOK/1USD (at closing on Friday)


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## Bennymiata (Aug 27, 2016)

Flamingtree said:


> Bennymiata said:
> 
> 
> > In Australia, the 5d4 is being offered for A$4988.00 (US $3807.80) at a chain brick and mortar retailer which includes a 10% tax, so it's not so bad compared to the US.
> ...



Sorry for the late reply.
It's Digi Direct.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 27, 2016)

Diko said:


> As for the autonomy thing I will take the liberty to speculate that generally speaking the the biggest possible autonomy is on continental level.



When I could not buy an EF-M 11-22mm in the US, I ordered it from a Canadian retailer. Interestingly, the warranty card was the standard one, applicable in the US and Canada. I wonder what would have happened if I had needed the lens serviced while Canon USA wasn't selling it?


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## kaihp (Aug 27, 2016)

Eldar said:


> Diko said:
> 
> 
> > What is hidden under ghe abbreviation of NOK?
> ...



For those that wonder: There are Norwegian Kroner, Danish Kroner and Swedish Kronor. Appreviated NOK, DKK, and SEK.
There used to be Czech Kroner as well, but they gave it up for the Euro.


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## Laktibrada (Aug 27, 2016)

czech crowns are still a thing  it's the slovaks who gave up theirs for the evil EUR


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## Flamingtree (Aug 28, 2016)

Bennymiata said:


> Flamingtree said:
> 
> 
> > Bennymiata said:
> ...



That's ok, thanks for that. They have just opened a shop here in Perth, I will have to check it out.


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## yeahright (Aug 28, 2016)

kaihp said:


> Eldar said:
> 
> 
> > Diko said:
> ...


The Czech have not introduced the Euro yet. It is the Slovak Crown that was replaced by the Euro in 2009.


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## StudentOfLight (Aug 28, 2016)

I wonder if there is insufficient supply to cater to both Europe and US markets and so Canon want to prioritize US sales. Perhaps the US market is more risky to lose.


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## Mikehit (Aug 28, 2016)

Eldar said:



> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Eldar said:
> ...



My guess is that Canon USA (like any subsidiary) is given a target profitability for the financial year. The subsidiary then looks at the sales of all the different products along with patterns of profitability and looks at the prices of the competition, makes a judgement on what the local market can afford and prices each product such that they can hit their overall profitability target. They also have to try and predict broad currency fluctuations so they are covered without continually changing their prices.
Canon Japan is happy because they have got their money from the sale to the wholesalers and the subsidiary then has to make HQ happy. 

So in that respect, I see HQ has having a say but a lot of the finer detail is local.


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## GuyF (Aug 28, 2016)

StudentOfLight said:


> I wonder if there is insufficient supply to cater to both Europe and US markets and so Canon want to prioritize US sales. Perhaps the US market is more risky to lose.



Maybe, but you'd think with Europe having a larger population that sales would be higher here. Anyone got sales figures comparing EU & US markets?


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## Maiaibing (Aug 28, 2016)

GuyF said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder if there is insufficient supply to cater to both Europe and US markets and so Canon want to prioritize US sales. Perhaps the US market is more risky to lose.
> ...


Europe is Canon's largest market. Check out their investor's relations reports.


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## smorgo (Aug 28, 2016)

It's my belief that in part, the price reflects Canon's expectations or fears over further currency fluctuations in Europe through the further impact of Brexit.

The movements to date have easily accounted for a 10% increase in cost. If they're expecting more of the same, I can see why they may have taken a cautious view when setting the retail price.

There's a general issue that gets little attention while we're debating the issues we're facing. Working for a large Japanese company, I've seen time and time again that you can't apply Western expectations to the way Japanese companies operate. Whatever we may see as common sense or good business, when it comes to product development, markets or prices, Japanese companies have a completely different way of doing things. Culturally, they're so different to the way that Western companies operate that the same values just don't apply. We'll always be struggling to fathom why particular decisions are made in companies like Canon or Nikon (though I get the impression that Sony are more Westernised in their outlook).


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## eml58 (Aug 29, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> eml58 said:
> 
> 
> > I know this is a mistake, I know, but...
> ...



Your right of course.

reminds of the Tom Hanks movie Castaway and him talking to "Wilson", I'm pretty sure "Wilson" didn't get it either.


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## kaihp (Aug 29, 2016)

yeahright said:


> The Czech have not introduced the Euro yet. It is the Slovak Crown that was replaced by the Euro in 2009.



Oops, sorry about mixing that up.


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## aa_angus (Aug 29, 2016)

Bicker about the pricing all you want. Whenever I buy camera gear, I just take a wad of cash into JB HIFI, tell them I'm paying gray market price, and they almost always accept. In Australia, the 5DIV is meant to be $5,200 body only. I will report how much I actually pay for it, whilst retaining my full local warranty. Since it's a brand new item, JB may not be so flexible on the price, but I guarantee you I will be walking out of there with more than just the body if this is the case. "You're damn right you'll through in the vertical grip and those top range cf cards". This is what I love about JB Hifi. One time it worked when I literally didn't even have any money whatsoever...they gave me a bargain (24-702.8L II & 70-2002.8IS II for CHEAPER than gray market prices), on a 15 month interest free payment plan.


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## Diko (Aug 29, 2016)

aa_angus said:



> Bicker about the pricing all you want. Whenever I buy camera gear, I just take a wad of cash into JB HIFI, tell them I'm paying gray market price, and they almost always accept.


 That would explain why I couldn't get onto the website (I've forgot the *US* *proxy **on*. Now let's hope I'll not forget to turn *off *the Australian one)    


Good luck


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## GuyF (Aug 29, 2016)

aa_angus said:


> ...I will report how much I actually pay for it...



Yup, like we'll believe you : - http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=30603.msg617812#msg617812

Just remind us how that thread ended for you.


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## aa_angus (Aug 30, 2016)

GuyF said:


> aa_angus said:
> 
> 
> > ...I will report how much I actually pay for it...
> ...



LOL the camera still isn't for sale, anyone who bought into that, or even replied isn't quite the full six pack


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## Maiaibing (Aug 31, 2016)

smorgo said:


> Working for a large Japanese company, I've seen time and time again that you can't apply Western expectations to the way Japanese companies operate. Whatever we may see as common sense or good business, when it comes to product development, markets or prices, Japanese companies have a completely different way of doing things.


Having worked with Canon in Japan I can ascribe to this. 

Must be the only country in the world where you have to find out first if the CEO actually runs the company and if the CFO actually has any control over the money(!).


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## GMCPhotographics (Aug 31, 2016)

Euros....wow...that's so last Brexit.


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