# Here are more images of the Canon EOS R3



## Canon Rumors Guy (May 27, 2021)

> Here are a couple of new images of the upcoming Canon EOS R3. There haven’t been any teasers from Canon yet, but an announcement is likely coming in the next couple of months. I have been told that availability will definitely be in 2021.
> As you can see from the images, we get a flippy screen! The rest of the ergonomics are what you’d expect from a Canon “pro” camera. If it’s not broken, there’s no point in fixing it.
> A couple of other things to point out is the massive viewfinder window, I imagine this is for the eye AF point selection. We also get the same AF ON button feature from the EOS-1D X Mark III.
> Canon EOS R3 Features:
> ...



Continue reading...


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## Chaitanya (May 27, 2021)

Wasnt expecting articulating screen so thats a pleasant surprise. 

Edit: great to see Canon bringing touch sensitive af on button back.


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## Doug7131 (May 27, 2021)

Looks like they have used the optical AF button from the 1dx.


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## padam (May 27, 2021)

That EVF with the eye-control looks massive.


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## tokyoshot (May 27, 2021)

Now, this is a classy, modern look.


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## fox40phil (May 27, 2021)

No backlight illuminated buttons? Is this already out?
Big ups for the flipping Screen!!
I can’t life without it!

and do I see there carbon?! Sexy^2!


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## neuroanatomist (May 27, 2021)

MP and cost, then shut up and take my money!


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## john1970 (May 27, 2021)

I am glad that they showed a picture of the back. Glad to see there is an articulating screen and the optical AF selector from the 1DX Mk3. I would still like to know the MP, dual card slots configuration, spot meter linked to AF point, and cost.


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## Viggo (May 27, 2021)

padam said:


> That EVF with the eye-control looks massive.


Yeah, saw that too, it looks enormous **


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## AE-1Burnham (May 27, 2021)

This is looking like a complete package! ...Just trying to imagine what the R1 is gonna be like or offer (must come down to internals..?) !?!


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## Rocksthaman (May 27, 2021)

Bank account looks at me disappointedly, as it knows what I must do


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## H. Jones (May 27, 2021)

Other big change here is the R5 style memory card door. Will be interested to see if the R1 keeps the 1D card door opening switch or not. 

New video/photo switch at the record button, so I guess we won't have to hit mode and then hit info anymore to change modes!


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## padam (May 27, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> New video/photo switch at the record button, so I guess we won't have to hit mode and then hit info anymore to change modes!


No need to do that on the R5 either. Depending on the setup, the M-Fn button works just fine (and you always see the mode on the top LCD)


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## goldenhusky (May 27, 2021)

Looks beautiful! The tilt and flip out screen is a welcome addition and glad to see the track button from the 1dx3. The price is most likely $6k USD. I was hoping for this to be a $5k camera.


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## goldenhusky (May 27, 2021)

From the looks the battery seems to be at least the same size as 1dx3. Anyone know if Canon mentioned it anywhere? If it is compatible with the old battery at least that will be helpful for some folks.


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## goldenhusky (May 27, 2021)

Usually the announcement will be with in 2 weeks after Nokishita leaks the pictures. Hopefully the announcement is not months away.


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## Chris.Chapterten (May 27, 2021)

It certainly looks pretty good ergonomically. Would no doubt be comfortable to hold and easy to use. Just has some very odd proportions and contours without a lens attached. But 1D style bodies have always been about function over form...


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## sulla (May 27, 2021)

I would appreciate a larger LCD, but hey, the R3 lookes good.


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## sulla (May 27, 2021)

that LAN-indicator light lookes good to me.


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## R1-7D (May 27, 2021)

Looks like it has a slide-open memory card door, unlike the 1DX series which have a lever and catch-type door.


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## DBounce (May 27, 2021)

padam said:


> That EVF with the eye-control looks massive.


The actual view screen is much smaller. Here is a look with the brightness and exposure lifted.


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## nemophoto (May 27, 2021)

This is what I've been wanting - a 1Dx-ish body in mirrorless. My R is OK. My R5 is a huge step up. But having owned almost every 1D-series camera since the beginning, I wanted the BUTTONS and other controls rather than being forced into the menu.


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## DBounce (May 27, 2021)

As interesting as this is, I’ll likely wait for the R1.


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## polaris8030 (May 27, 2021)

it looks like the larger EVF - might help with one of the issues I face shooting under bright overhead sunlight where I can't see the EVF so well. if more of my eye rests rests within the eyecup area, maybe that cuts out the ambient light - and is what is needed for the eye-AF to work ?


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## unfocused (May 27, 2021)

Looks very interesting. I do hope they adjust the sensitivity of that smart controller. Even when set to it's lowest sensitivity on the 1DXIII, it is still far too sensitive. 

I'm a little surprised they are including it at all, as it seems to me to be a feature best suited for DSLRs that don't have touch control focus point selection through the back screen. Selecting the point using your thumb on the back screen is much more intuitive and controllable in my experience. I suppose they figured they would include it, since they've already paid for the technology, but I doubt I would use it instead of the touch screen.


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## padam (May 27, 2021)

One disappointing aspect of this camera is that there are only four ways in which you can adjust the AF point

-Eye sensor
-Multi-controller (2x)
-Joystick (2x)
-Touch & Drag

For a Pro camera, this is simply not enough. Hopefully the R1 can do better than that.


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## polaris8030 (May 27, 2021)

it could be that the articulated lcd screen makes the R3 a notch 'less pro' than the R1 .. doesn't canon forgo this feature in it's 1 series ? but I have to agree with the other posters here, it looks very much like a 1 series. makes me wonder what the R1 is going to have (even better AF w/ deep learning, no SD cards, built like a tank, super fast charging - like 5 mins for 0->100% .. ?)


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## unfocused (May 27, 2021)

padam said:


> One disappointing aspect of this camera is that there are only four ways in which you can adjust the AF point
> 
> -Eye sensor
> -Multi-controller (2x)
> ...


How many way can you adjust the AF point on the 1DXIII?


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## unfocused (May 27, 2021)

Does anyone else think the "Q" button looks strange. Hard to make out on the low-resolution image, but it doesn't look like a "Q" to me.


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## slclick (May 27, 2021)

A thing of beauty, 2 joysticks! More Joy!


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## DBounce (May 27, 2021)

polaris8030 said:


> makes me wonder what the R1 is going to have (even better AF w/ deep learning, no SD cards, built like a tank, super fast charging - like 5 mins for 0->100% .. ?)


• Global shutter 
• QPAF (Quad Pixel AF)
• Pro price tag


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## zonoskar (May 27, 2021)

Doug7131 said:


> Looks like they have used the optical AF button from the 1dx.


It also appears there's a joystick on the back. Why have both?

/edit: the 1DXIII also has both. So maybe that's why?


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## privatebydesign (May 27, 2021)

I’m really liking the second top dial, like Nikons have had forever. I really like that ability to use a top thumb dial whenever I use a Nikon.

Not a huge fan of the tilt flip screen, not because of the oft over stated ‘durability’, if Olympus can put a flip screen on a cheap waterproof camera I’m pretty sure Canon can do it on a weatherproof pro camera, no my objection to flip screens is they are comparatively big and bulky and yet the screen is much smaller than it could be if it wasn’t a flip screen. But I know I am fighting an uphill battle on that one.


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## Skyscraperfan (May 27, 2021)

It could be a littler bigger and heavier if it really costs $6000. Next to somebody with a 1D X Mark III I would look much less professional, because the R3 is smaller.


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## padam (May 27, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> My objection to flip screens is they are comparatively big and bulky and yet the screen is much smaller than it could be if it wasn’t a flip screen. But I know I am fighting an uphill battle on that one.


It's just as big as on any other camera, 3.2-inch, just like the 1DX series.
And they can do bigger ones if they want to, like on the C70, although the hinge on that camera seems less stable.


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## macrunning (May 27, 2021)

padam said:


> One disappointing aspect of this camera is that there are only four ways in which you can adjust the AF point
> 
> -Eye sensor
> -Multi-controller (2x)
> ...


Well if you could just tell it where to focus, now that would be a big step up! lol


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## privatebydesign (May 27, 2021)

padam said:


> It's just as big as on any other camera, 3.2-inch, just like the 1DX series.
> And they can do bigger ones if they want to, like on the C70, although the hinge on that camera seems less stable.


If the screen is the same size then the complete mechanism is bigger and bulkier, if the mechanism is the same size the screen is smaller. What is difficult to understand or controversial about that?


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## AEWest (May 27, 2021)

macrunning said:


> Well if you could just tell it where to focus, now that would be a big step up! lol


LOL - Hey Google, focus on #26's eyes...


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## Dockland (May 27, 2021)

Does the vertical grip have room for two batteries, or is there a battery grip to this one as well?


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## privatebydesign (May 27, 2021)

Dockland said:


> Does the vertical grip have room for two batteries, or is there a battery grip to this one as well?


No it will almost certainly have one large 1 series style battery.


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## fisherman (May 27, 2021)

Wow, quite surprised by the flip-out screen.


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## gmon750 (May 27, 2021)

COVID put my R5 purchase on hold, and now I find myself eyeballing this R3. I'm tentatively excited about this camera as from a body-perspective, has what I'm looking for. Now waiting to see what Canon's official description of the internals and performance... and of course, I hope the price isn't stratospheric. If it's priced between the R5 and future R1, then I might be tempted.


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## HikeBike (May 27, 2021)

That's a damn fine looking machine.


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## [email protected] (May 27, 2021)

Not that I necessarily expected it, but I do see a lack of a GPS chip housing bump that Canon tends to use (different material to allow for better reception). 

Personally, I very much miss the GPS functionality I had with previous cameras to my R5. Pairing with phone is doable, but keeping it paired is ludicrously unreliable. 

This is one thing that I can see the 1DX III might have an advantage in.


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## noncho (May 27, 2021)

When are we going to see a bezel-less display, Canon? Not even in 6K camera?
My 3YO phone is using the screen space much better. You can put a bigger screen in the same space!


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## HikeBike (May 27, 2021)

[email protected] said:


> Not that I necessarily expected it, but I do see a lack of a GPS chip housing bump that Canon tends to use (different material to allow for better reception).
> 
> Personally, I very much miss the GPS functionality I had with previous cameras to my R5. Pairing with phone is doable, but keeping it paired is ludicrously unreliable.
> 
> This is one thing that I can see the 1DX III might have an advantage in.


Probably saving it for the R1.


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## timmy (May 27, 2021)

I've been with Nikon for 12 years. Switching over to Canon. Random question, with NPS you get priority with pre-order purchases. You jump ahead of every non-NPS member. Is it the same with Canon with their CPS membership? Thanks for your help!


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## mpeeps (May 27, 2021)

unfocused said:


> Does anyone else think the "Q" button looks strange. Hard to make out on the low-resolution image, but it doesn't look like a "Q" to me.


Perhaps Q has a huge negative connotation now and then need a different letter!


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## frjmacias (May 27, 2021)

polaris8030 said:


> it could be that the articulated lcd screen makes the R3 a notch 'less pro' than the R1 .. doesn't canon forgo this feature in it's 1 series ? but I have to agree with the other posters here, it looks very much like a 1 series. makes me wonder what the R1 is going to have (even better AF w/ deep learning, no SD cards, built like a tank, super fast charging - like 5 mins for 0->100% .. ?)


You know, now that you mention it, I am surprised I have not seen fast charging in a camera. I do not know much about if this would be possible with the internals, but charging batteries is one of the most tedious tasks for any photographer. If a camera like the R1 was able to implement this, it would be a blessing.


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## mb66energy (May 27, 2021)

padam said:


> One disappointing aspect of this camera is that there are only four ways in which you can adjust the AF point
> 
> -Eye sensor
> -Multi-controller (2x)
> ...


Maybe R1 talks to your Neuralink implant which is included in the 8k price tag including installation ...


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## Del Paso (May 27, 2021)

I'm a bit upset at the lack of an integrated selfie stick...the cripple - hammer is once again in action!


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## canonmike (May 27, 2021)

While not caring if the R3 has 8k video, do hope that larger size R3 body solves the R5 overheating and recording time limits when recording video. Now, Canon, pls give us the MPxl's and the price and tell us we can do unlimited video recording without overheating


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## H. Jones (May 27, 2021)

I sound like a broken record on this, since I said it during the R5 leaks, but I am really hopeful that the viewfinder eyecup comes off. It's far cheaper to replace a swappable eyecup and allows you to mount a rain cover eyepiece on the viewfinder. I get the impression that, since the eye-detection lens is no longer on the plastic eyecup like on the EOS R5, maybe they will finally allow you to take this one off?

It makes really no sense to me Canon randomly decided all R cameras had to have fixed-piece eyecups when every other comparable brand gives you replaceable ones.


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## Tom Raymond (May 27, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


Any mention of file capture size ? Also Canon is famous for changing data cards with every new model: compact flash > CFast > CF Express, etc. Hope they stay where they are. My desk is already cluttered with card readers !


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## H. Jones (May 27, 2021)

Looking at the shoulder, the two-button layout actually makes sense.



On the 1DX, the front button is "mode," second button is "drive-AF," third button is "flash exp comp and metering mode" with pressing both DRIVE-AF and Mode at the same time giving you exposure bracketing.

On the R3, the mode button is in the top control wheel, so they've simply removed the mode button from here and changed it so that you press both DRIVE-AF and the Flash Comp/Metering mode buttons together to get to exposure bracketing.

I'm glad to see that hasn't changed on the R3!

As for the right shoulder,



We see that this is a very similar layout to the EOS R5, however, the record button is on the rear plate now, and the lock button is in the mode-switch on the rear plate, like on the 1DX.

So we have two buttons by the top control wheel, what is clearly the LCD illuminator button on the right, and then a new button on the left, where the record button used to be. 

It looks to me as a solid-ish block icon, so I'm leaning towards this button being exposure compensation? On my 1DX I don't personally use any of the top buttons often, but ISO can now be controlled by the top wheel or the lens control ring, so I doubt it's ISO. The other option would be WB, but I suspect that if they had to get rid of a button, not way too many people change WB constantly, and there's many ways to change that now in the camera's Q button and viewfinder, so I don't expect it to be WB. Exposure compensation can be done by the control wheel, sure, but if you set it to ISO control you can't. Exposure compensation is also a button I suspect some pros need to hit many times a day, so I'd expect they'd leave it on for the pros who need it for muscle memory while shooting. 

At the very least, whatever it is, I kinda suspect it will end up a customizable button, which would be nice for those who don't use exposure compensation much.


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## degos (May 27, 2021)

noncho said:


> When are we going to see a bezel-less display, Canon? Not even in 6K camera?
> My 3YO phone is using the screen space much better. You can put a bigger screen in the same space!



Your phone screen is glued to the frame and doesn't flip out. A bezel helps maintain rigidity and also protects the screen edges.


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## Skyscraperfan (May 27, 2021)

Wouldn't an even larger display that some of you requested also need more battery power? On the other hand the display needs less power than the EVF, although the EVP is much smaller.

I am still shocked about the suggested price. In the past the second best camera by Canon did only cost about half as much as the 1D series cameras. Would people buy a second best camera, if it costs 80% or so of the best camera?


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## VegasCameraGuy (May 27, 2021)

The rear shot shows "LAN" at the bottom of the body. Does that mean that we're going to get a RJ45 network connection to hard wire the camera into a network? That would be sweet as transferring pictures would be so much faster.


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## Stig Nygaard (May 27, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> Would people buy a second best camera, if it costs 80% or so of the best camera?



Might not be same target group. Pros and cons with each depending on which type of photographer you are.


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## privatebydesign (May 27, 2021)

padam said:


> It's just as big as on any other camera, 3.2-inch, just like the 1DX series.


Not if you do an overlay of the R3 on the 1DX II and scale them to the same battery size. Then the actual screen, not the bezel, is a good bit smaller on the R3.


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## polaris8030 (May 27, 2021)

frjmacias said:


> You know, now that you mention it, I am surprised I have not seen fast charging in a camera. I do not know much about if this would be possible with the internals, but charging batteries is one of the most tedious tasks for any photographer. If a camera like the R1 was able to implement this, it would be a blessing.


the Canon battery and charging tech is quite a ways behind what is available on phones. the battery pack itself is not keeping up with the pace of technology available in the smartphone space.
this website shows what's inside the LP-E6 battery : https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Canon+LP-E6+battery+pack+Teardown/133243
these are 2 Panasonic batteries in series (~8.4V) .. digging around will reveal that the battery tech is from 2010
It's a 2Ah battery but the charger is rated at 1.2A (or < 1C as they say in the battery world). 

In-body fast charging is bound to create heat so I don't know what's an acceptable charging current, but I do want to see fast (> 1C ) charging brought to the adapters. Not a battery expert .. but If my smartphone can charge 0 to 80% for a 2Ah battery in about 10 minutes, I think it can be done for camera batteries. 
writing this - I wonder if such a fast charger is available on the market.


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## padam (May 27, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Not if you do an overlay of the R3 on the 1DX II and scale them to the same battery size. Then the actual screen is a good bit smaller on the R3.


You can scale all you want, but if it wasn't shot with the same focal length, it is useless.

It is probably exactly the same 3.2-inch, 2.1 million dot touch LCD on the 1DX III, R5 and R3 (the 1DX II has the same size as well, but with slightly less resolution)


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## privatebydesign (May 27, 2021)

VegasCameraGuy said:


> The rear shot shows "LAN" at the bottom of the body. Does that mean that we're going to get a RJ45 network connection to hard wire the camera into a network? That would be sweet as transferring pictures would be so much faster.


1 series cameras have had that for generations.


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## marathonman (May 27, 2021)

I'm excited by the amalgamation of the 1dx controls with R5 that we are seeing here on R3. The main difference / advantage I see vs 1 dx mkiii, is that with the RF mount, you get the extra dial on the adapter / lens to adjust aperture etc. And having the R5 mode dial, gives you that extra option for adjusting ISO easily etc.
I don't mind losing that silly small LCD screen below main screen on 1dx mkiii but I would dearly love to see GPS. I fear I will be disappointed there.
I also don't see a Direct Print button that @Canon Rumors Guy promised would be on this camera ;-) 
Good stuff.


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## privatebydesign (May 27, 2021)

padam said:


> You can scale all you want, but if it wasn't shot with the same focal length, it is useless.
> 
> It is probably exactly the same 3.2-inch, 2.1 million dot touch LCD on the 1DX III, R5 and R3 (the 1DX II has the same size as well, but with slightly less resolution)


The focal length used is irrelevant, the distance from subject to sensor plane is relevant but not much in a two dimensional 'face on' picture of a basically flat surface.

And you are still ignoring my other point, whatever the size screen used if it wasn't a flip screen a bigger screen could be used in the same space.


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## padam (May 27, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> The focal length used is irrelevant, the distance from subject to sensor plane is relevant but not much in a two dimensional 'face on' picture of a basically flat surface.
> 
> And you are still ignoring my other point, whatever the size screen used if it wasn't a flip screen a bigger screen could be used in the same space.


It does not matter, it will *not *use an inferior LCD to the R5, most likely it will be the same, as the internal structure is probably based on the R5 but expanded, whilst the R1 may use a completely new body for maximum durability with a fixed screen.

And again, all the 1DX cameras use fixed LCDs but it is not any bigger at all in either of them, even though those cameras are bigger. So it wouldn't be bigger here either just by being a fixed one, only if they design everything differently from the ground-up, which may happen in the R1.


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## Joules (May 27, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> And you are still ignoring my other point, whatever the size screen used if it wasn't a flip screen a bigger screen could be used in the same space.


It could be, you are absolutely right about that. But it is Canon we're talking about, so it wouldn't be. Of they can share a part across models, they will do so.


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## privatebydesign (May 27, 2021)

padam said:


> It does not matter, it will *not *use an inferior LCD to the R5, most likely it will be the same, as the internal structure is probably based on the R5 but expanded, whilst the R1 may use a completely new body for maximum durability with a fixed screen.
> 
> And again, all the 1DX cameras use fixed LCDs but it is not any bigger at all in either of them, even though those cameras are bigger. So it wouldn't be bigger here either just by being a fixed one, only if they design everything differently from the ground-up, which may happen in the R1.


And again you ignore the point. Forget anything else, if a screen moves the hinge mechanism takes up space a larger screen could fit into if it didn't move.
That was my point.


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## padam (May 27, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> And again you ignore the point. Forget anything else, if a screen moves the hinge mechanism takes up space a larger screen could fit into if it didn't move.
> That was my point.


Again, you completely ignore how a 1DX is actually constructed. Here it is:



As you can see, the screen is mounted to its own 'fixed frame', increasing rigidity but it basically needs the same space.
That is how they are going to do it on the R1 as well.

So no, it does not require more space, it is just not as durable.


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## privatebydesign (May 27, 2021)

padam said:


> Again, you completely ignore how a 1DX is actually constructed. Here it is:
> View attachment 197893
> 
> 
> ...


You are now just being obtuse, clearly you aren’t stupid so you are doing it on purpose. Have at it....


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## navastronia (May 27, 2021)

In almost 3 years on this forum, I've never said this before about a camera, but the R3 looks absolutely gorgeous. What a dream!


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## paul (May 27, 2021)

padam said:


> One disappointing aspect of this camera is that there are only four ways in which you can adjust the AF point
> 
> -Eye sensor
> -Multi-controller (2x)
> ...


Should be mind controlled..


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## R1-7D (May 27, 2021)

I am still surprised that no one is commenting on the memory card door. It looks as if it's the same one used on the R5 - ie: slide-to-open. This is quite different than what's used on the 1D series - ie: release-catch with rubber sealing around the door.

Surely Canon must have some weather sealing around the door that's superior to the R5's to ensure the camera is as weather resistant as the 1DX Mark III.


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## David Hull (May 27, 2021)

john1970 said:


> I am glad that they showed a picture of the back. Glad to see there is an articulating screen and the optical AF selector from the 1DX Mk3. I would still like to know the MP, dual card slots configuration, spot meter linked to AF point, and cost.


Just out of curiosity, how does the optical AF button work? What does it bring to the game?


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## frjmacias (May 27, 2021)

polaris8030 said:


> the Canon battery and charging tech is quite a ways behind what is available on phones. the battery pack itself is not keeping up with the pace of technology available in the smartphone space.
> this website shows what's inside the LP-E6 battery : https://www.ifixit.com/Teardown/Canon+LP-E6+battery+pack+Teardown/133243
> these are 2 Panasonic batteries in series (~8.4V) .. digging around will reveal that the battery tech is from 2010
> It's a 2Ah battery but the charger is rated at 1.2A (or < 1C as they say in the battery world).
> ...


Thanks for the info, and I agree completely. I would love it if they made fast charging adapters. Would help tremendously.


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## slclick (May 27, 2021)

degos said:


> Your phone screen is glued to the frame and doesn't flip out. A bezel helps maintain rigidity and also protects the screen edges.


Complaining about bezels, is this what humanity has been reduced to?


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## djack41 (May 27, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


Would love to see it feature "Zebras" for still photography. Sony offers this feature and it is quicker and more accurate when setting image exposure.


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## padam (May 27, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> You are now just being obtuse, clearly you aren’t stupid so you are doing it on purpose. Have at it....


Your argument had no basis at all in the first place using scaling for pictures that have a different perspective.

To have any basis for your argument, you would have needed to provide real-world examples where the screen *actually got smaller* because of the change.

Let's compare the 6D and the 6D Mark II for instance: the same footprint, yet the LCD remained *exactly the same* despite being changed a swivel screen.
There is an even smaller camera with the same screen called the EOS RP. Clearly they could make an even small camera like this, without making the screen smaller.
If they do a fixed screen like on a 5D IV or a 1DX they do it because it makes the camera more rigid. But they need space for that, it still needs borders.
You don't just cram in an LCD without ignoring how it should be mounted on the chassis itself. That is just bad design. So if there is any difference, it is negligible, it might need a bit more thickness but again as I showed, if rigidity is important, they will lift it slightly towards the back.

So I tried to explain why it was wrong using common sense, but it is just a lost cause, and it was a waste of time in the first place,
I am sure you could design a camera so much better (at least in your head, ignoring everybody else who is of course can only be obtuse)


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## Tangent (May 27, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


Reaction on seeing the first image of the body: Great Scott! That is a gorgeous piece of industrial design!


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## privatebydesign (May 27, 2021)

padam said:


> Your argument had no basis at all in the first place using scaling for pictures that have a different perspective.
> 
> To have any basis for your argument, you would have needed to provide real-world examples where the screen *actually got smaller* because of the change.
> 
> ...


My point, not an argument because it is entirely factual, is that hinges take up space, as do the bezels and backing for a tilt swivel screen that are not needed at all , or at minimum not as bulky, as those required for a fixed screen. That is just a simple fact. Indeed the back of the swivel screen needs a cover as does the back of the camera, a non swivel screen requires neither of those. All Canon screen hinges so far, and the R3 looks no different, have not been particularly space conscious. 

Any way you try to reason your pointless argument the hinges and covers for a swivel screen exist in space, a non swivel screen could use that space for a larger screen and or thinner body. How is that a point of discussion when it is a simple statement of physical existence? 

All I was trying to say was that, personally, I'd take a larger screen over a tilt swivel screen any day. Not least of which because I am photo orientated and the Canon swivel screen is better orientated for video use. If I had to choose a moving screen it would be the FujiFilm style arrangement that is much better orientated for photography.


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## Byte (May 27, 2021)

__





Compare camera dimensions side by side







camerasize.com


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## polaris8030 (May 27, 2021)

noncho said:


> When are we going to see a bezel-less display, Canon? Not even in 6K camera?
> My 3YO phone is using the screen space much better. You can put a bigger screen in the same space!


do we see bezel-less displays in smartphones with LCD -- I thought it was an OLED screen for phones that allows for bezel-less


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## padam (May 27, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> My point, not an argument because it is entirely factual, is that hinges take up space, as do the bezels and backing for a tilt swivel screen that are not needed at all , or at minimum not as bulky, as those required for a fixed screen.


I try to sum it up in a single sentence, hoping that you understand it a little bit: on this particular body, (which was based on the R5 in the first place), there is no space for a bigger fixed screen properly mounted to the body, and if they do a different body they will use the same exact space to make the camera more durable, rather than stretching the screen as much as possible, whether you are able to take in that information or not.


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## privatebydesign (May 27, 2021)

padam said:


> I try to sum it up in a single sentence, hoping that you understand it a little bit: on this particular body, (which was based on the R5 in the first place), there is no space for a bigger fixed screen properly mounted to the body, whether you are able to take in that information or not.


You clearly aren't capable of absorbing the information that the R3 screen hinge could have been omitted and the same space used for a larger fixed screen.

These are to scale. The distance from the edge of the R3 to the actual screen edge is much larger than the distance from the edge of the 1DX II to the viewable screen edge.


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## [email protected] (May 27, 2021)

B


Chaitanya said:


> Wasnt expecting articulating screen so thats a pleasant surprise.
> 
> Edit: great to see Canon bringing touch sensitive af on button back.


Beautiful I like the body - likely to be able to slot in Canon 1D X MK 2-3 batteries along with a high capacity battery for this body.

Like the promise of subject tracking and deep learning - may trump Z9 and Sony's A9 / A1's.


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## sanj (May 27, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> MP and cost, then shut up and take my money!


Not so shut up then!


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## blackcoffee17 (May 27, 2021)

Would not be easier to just make a mechanism to rotate the sensor 90 degrees at a press of a button for portrait mode?
Instead of adding all these extra buttons, dials, grip space, etc? That way would not have to readjust your hand and deal with
the rotated LCD, etc. Or just add a square sensor and then readjust aspect ratio in a fraction of a second.

I know a grip can store a bigger battery but many only need it for portrait mode.


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## blackcoffee17 (May 27, 2021)

Btw, why is that big gap needed between the LCD's hinge and the active screen area itself?


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## pixel8foto (May 27, 2021)

Immediate annoyance: horizontal and vertical grip buttons and dials aren't consistently placed, relative to one another. With the R5+grip it's awful. This looks like it might be a bit better, but it should be perfect.


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## lexptr (May 27, 2021)

Years! Years, I've been hoping to see articulated screens on high level DSLRs! Now, finally, it seems to become a standard. Enjoying it on my R5. Finally I can get rid of the clumsy Angle Finder C and forget about it. The ergonomics and design of this R3 looks great! Sadly, I use two cameras and getting two R3s would be a little too much. So I'd better shut up and get another R5. I hope R3 will have some downsides, like lower MP or something. Lol.


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## tataylino (May 27, 2021)

And this is not yet the R1. I wonder what R1 will bring to the table.


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## Jethro (May 27, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> You clearly aren't capable of absorbing the information that the R3 screen hinge could have been omitted and the same space used for a larger fixed screen.
> 
> These are to scale. The distance from the edge of the R3 to the actual screen edge is much larger than the distance from the edge of the 1DX II to the viewable screen edge.
> 
> ...


For what it's worth, I think this shows that you're right re the 'argument' that the mounting plate for a fixed sreen takes up less landscape than a hinge for a similar-sized tilty-flippy. But (and here's me expressing a feature preference for a camera I can't afford and whose features I would use to the extent of about 10% if I bought it anyway!) I really really love tilty-flippies ...


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## AEWest (May 27, 2021)

tataylino said:


> And this is not yet the R1. I wonder what R1 will bring to the table.


I believe the R3 will be Canon's go to sports camera, and the R1 will be a high mp studio camera with global shutter.


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## privatebydesign (May 27, 2021)

AEWest said:


> I believe the R3 will be Canon's go to sports camera, and the R1 will be a high mp studio camera with global shutter.


I don’t believe that for a second.


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## David - Sydney (May 28, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> All I was trying to say was that, personally, I'd take a larger screen over a tilt swivel screen any day. Not least of which because I am photo orientated and the Canon swivel screen is better orientated for video use. If I had to choose a moving screen it would be the FujiFilm style arrangement that is much better orientated for photography.


I love my flippy screen on my R5 and wouldn't go back. Having a tilt only screen is good for street photography but useless for any shooting in portrait mode eg astro when craning your neck to see the screen is particularly difficult.
Interestingly, I was at a wedding (no covid restrictions at all at the time here) and the tog was very tall. He shot (with a 28-70/2 lens) the whole time with the screen out for lower and higher perspectives for both landscape and portrait orientations. Yes, a larger screen is better than a smaller screen but a flippy screen trumps size IMHO.
Another benefit for both photo (with <24mm focal length) and video is selfie orientation which is impossible with a tilt-only or fixed screen.
That said, I am particularly careful with opening/moving my flippy screen. It is clearly not as rugged as a fixed screen but also doesn't need a screen protector as you can turn it face-in for even better protection than a fixed screen.


----------



## privatebydesign (May 28, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> I love my flippy screen on my R5 and wouldn't go back. Having a tilt only screen is good for street photography but useless for any shooting in portrait mode eg astro when craning your neck to see the screen is particularly difficult.
> Interestingly, I was at a wedding (no covid restrictions at all at the time here) and the tog was very tall. He shot (with a 28-70/2 lens) the whole time with the screen out for lower and higher perspectives for both landscape and portrait orientations. Yes, a larger screen is better than a smaller screen but a flippy screen trumps size IMHO.
> Another benefit for both photo (with <24mm focal length) and video is selfie orientation which is impossible with a tilt-only or fixed screen.
> That said, I am particularly careful with opening/moving my flippy screen. It is clearly not as rugged as a fixed screen but also doesn't need a screen protector as you can turn it face-in for even better protection than a fixed screen.


That’s why I say my favorite screen is the FujiFilm type, much prefer it to the Canon swing out to the side to tilt.


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## David - Sydney (May 28, 2021)

unfocused said:


> I'm a little surprised they are including it at all, as it seems to me to be a feature best suited for DSLRs that don't have touch control focus point selection through the back screen. Selecting the point using your thumb on the back screen is much more intuitive and controllable in my experience. I suppose they figured they would include it, since they've already paid for the technology, but I doubt I would use it instead of the touch screen.


It will be interesting how the touch-drag focus point selection will work in portrait mode with either a separate grip for the R5/6 or the integrated grip in the R3. I use the right hand side of the R5 screen in landscape mode and it also works in portrait mode as your right thumb is still in the correct location to use the screen.
Anyone want to chime in for how touch-drag works with the R5/6 grip? I guess that the R3's optical af-on "button" would need to be used instead in portrait mode.


----------



## AEWest (May 28, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> I don’t believe that for a second.


The reason I believe that is the R3 is likely going to be a great sports camera with 45mp+ and 30fps meeting the needs of most sports photographers. 

Therefore, the R1 needs to offer a different purpose rather than an incremental upgrade (eg. Same as R3 but with global shutter) to justify a $7,500+ price that Canon would want for its flagship.


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## David - Sydney (May 28, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> That’s why I say my favorite screen is the FujiFilm type, much prefer it to the Canon swing out to the side to tilt.


Which Fuji model? The XT4 seems to have the same flippy as Canon. The XT3 looks to be tilt only but can tilt through 180 degrees for selfie mode
From B&H...
FUJIFILM​As mentioned earlier, the X-T3 had a dual-hinged tilt design and the X-T4 switched to a flip-out swivel. The X-Pro3, a gem for street shooting, has one of the more unique tilting designs with a single bottom hinge, with the LCD screen remaining hidden during general use; it can then be revealed for playback or waist-level shooting, but FUJIFILM intuits will want to stick to the viewfinder for this camera. As you go toward the more consumer-friendly mirrorless models, you’ll see that X-T30 has a tilt-screen design and the new (and gorgeous) X-T200 has a flip-out swivel design. Each of these cameras has its rear buttons and controls on the right side of the screen, so one could ask if FUJIFILM just hasn’t figured out what works best or is simply giving its customers welcomed options


----------



## privatebydesign (May 28, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> Which Fuji model? The XT4 seems to have the same flippy as Canon. The XT3 looks to be tilt only but can tilt through 180 degrees for selfie mode
> From B&H...
> FUJIFILM​As mentioned earlier, the X-T3 had a dual-hinged tilt design and the X-T4 switched to a flip-out swivel. The X-Pro3, a gem for street shooting, has one of the more unique tilting designs with a single bottom hinge, with the LCD screen remaining hidden during general use; it can then be revealed for playback or waist-level shooting, but FUJIFILM intuits will want to stick to the viewfinder for this camera. As you go toward the more consumer-friendly mirrorless models, you’ll see that X-T30 has a tilt-screen design and the new (and gorgeous) X-T200 has a flip-out swivel design. Each of these cameras has its rear buttons and controls on the right side of the screen, so one could ask if FUJIFILM just hasn’t figured out what works best or is simply giving its customers welcomed options


GFX 100 and GFX 100S


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## privatebydesign (May 28, 2021)

AEWest said:


> The reason I believe that is the R3 is likely going to be a great sports camera with 45mp+ and 30fps meeting the needs of most sports photographers.
> 
> Therefore, the R1 needs to offer a different purpose rather than an incremental upgrade (eg. Same as R3 but with global shutter) to justify a $7,500+ price that Canon would want for its flagship.


Don’t forget a global shutter is a $2,000 upgrade. I don’t see the R1 having 45mp either and it’s going to have a quad pixel sensor, so AF and anything else they can accomplish with it. There are plenty of differentiating goodies they can put in an R1. Besides, studio shooters spending $7,000+ can get medium format body with 100+ MP and 16 bit files for less than that.

Indeed a $7,999 R1 with a global shutter would be the cheapest video camera Canon make with the feature.


----------



## polaris8030 (May 28, 2021)

DBounce said:


> • Global shutter
> • QPAF (Quad Pixel AF)
> • Pro price tag


good points .. I forgot about the global shutter and QPAF 

I'm going to add one more and I have a question: a 5G mm wave port (sports event pros can transfer those files really fast to a central 5G hub) could be seen in the R1 as we will see wider adoption of 5G by R1's release. I also think 5G ports will start appearing in other cameras - allowing super fast transfer from camera to phone/tablet
and this got me thinking about what's the upper limitation for the fps with a global shutter. is it mechanical (lens aperture opening and closing) or the transfer speed between processor and storage with on-board memory acting as buffer, is it thermals (I think so, the R5 CF express slot heats up real fast) ?
CF express write speed is 1480 MB/s .. if files are 20MB each then its a cool 70+ fps
just thinking a bit out of the box .. but interested in knowing if anyone feels that there is need for > 30 fps


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## AEWest (May 28, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Don’t forget a global shutter is a $2,000 upgrade. I don’t see the R1 having 45mp either and it’s going to have a quad pixel sensor, so AF and anything else they can accomplish with it. There are plenty of differentiating goodies they can put in an R1. Besides, studio shooters spending $7,000+ can get medium format body with 100+ MP and 16 bit files for less than that.
> 
> Indeed a $7,999 R1 with a global shutter would be the cheapest video camera Canon make with the feature.


There is talk of an ultra high MP Canon coming within a year and many assume it will be an R5 based camera. But to me it makes more sense to have it as a $7,500 R1 rather than a $4,000 R5. 

Leave the R3 as Canon's sports camera.


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## canonmike (May 28, 2021)

My first Canon camera was an A2e, so I have been a long time Canon user. That being said, I have never considered any of the many Canon bodies I have owned, particularly attractive. That's been ok because they just work. That looks to change if the R3 body looks as good as the photos of it. The carbon fiber appearance and sleek design look spectacular and make you want to just hold it in your hands, get a feel for it, attach an L lens to it, then go shoot it until your arms get tired. What a great looking camera. Bring it on Canon.


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## neuroanatomist (May 28, 2021)

AEWest said:


> There is talk of an ultra high MP Canon coming within a year and many assume it will be an R5 based camera. But to me it makes more sense to have it as a $7,500 R1 rather than a $4,000 R5.
> 
> Leave the R3 as Canon's sports camera.


It may make more sense to you, but it would be entirely inconsistent with Canon’s positioning of the 1-series for the past decade.


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## DBounce (May 28, 2021)

polaris8030 said:


> and this got me thinking about what's the upper limitation for the fps with a global shutter. is it mechanical (lens aperture opening and closing) or the transfer speed between processor and storage with on-board memory acting as buffer, is it thermals (I think so, the R5 CF express slot heats up real fast) ?
> CF express write speed is 1480 MB/s .. if files are 20MB each then its a cool 70+ fps
> just thinking a bit out of the box .. but interested in knowing if anyone feels that there is need for > 30 fps


Don’t think canon will have a mechanical shutter on a camera that is global shutter. It seems redundant.


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## jam05 (May 28, 2021)

For those who said that a pro body had to have a fixed display because of weather sealing. This body clearly dispells that theory. Canon has clearly incorporated the moveable and most likely full touch display into a professional body.


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## Mr Majestyk (May 28, 2021)

Damn nice looking camera and as long as it's not a gimpy 20MP sensor resoluion and sticks to the 45-50MP range I'll be all over this. What I'm also waiting foir is the actual specs for the next gen 500 f/4 and 300 f/2.8 or is it a 100/120-300 f/2.8 zoom first.


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## privatebydesign (May 28, 2021)

jam05 said:


> For those who said that a pro body had to have a fixed display because of weather sealing. This body clearly dispells that theory. Canon has clearly incorporated the moveable and most likely full touch display into a professional body.


That was always a a fallacious argument. The Olympus TG-850 P&S had a waterproof (to 10m) tilting screen for $445 7 years ago.


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## [email protected] (May 28, 2021)

Mr Majestyk said:


> Damn nice looking camera and as long as it's not a gimpy 20MP sensor resolution and sticks to the 45-50MP range I'll be all over this. What I'm also waiting for is the actual specs for the next gen 500 f/4 and 300 f/2.8 or is it a 100/120-300 f/2.8 zoom first.


Unfortunately, it looks like the first big whites to come to the RF mount will be the old big whites with adapters pasted on. It is true that the 500 and 300 didn't get Mark III treatments back in the EF days, so perhaps there will be some actual new design to those when they finally surface. A 500mm f/4 III would have been a treat with 20 percent less weight. 

The long-yearned-for 600mm DO is the new unicorn, ever since a mock-up was shown in NYC years ago. That on an R3 would be deadly for run-and-gun wildlife. But don't go getting giddy over that sort of thing just yet. Canon is going to have us chew through some Mark III inventory stuck to adapters first.


----------



## AEWest (May 28, 2021)

jam05 said:


> For those who said that a pro body had to have a fixed display because of weather sealing. This body clearly dispells that theory. Canon has clearly incorporated the moveable and most likely full touch display into a professional body.


I believe that no future MILC will have a fixed display. The reason? Video. All mirrorless cameras need to have reasonable video chops, and a fixed screen is not conducive for video.


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## AEWest (May 28, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> It may make more sense to you, but it would be entirely inconsistent with Canon’s positioning of the 1-series for the past decade.


Canon has already upset the apple cart in terms of positioning with the announcement of the R3 - they haven't had a 3 series camera since film camera days (at least 25 lbs ago).

So things do change over time and now may be that time.


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## Chig (May 28, 2021)

sulla said:


> I would appreciate a larger LCD, but hey, the R3 lookes good.


The flippy screen means you get a tiny screen


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## Chig (May 28, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> I’m really liking the second top dial, like Nikons have had forever. I really like that ability to use a top thumb dial whenever I use a Nikon.
> 
> Not a huge fan of the tilt flip screen, not because of the oft over stated ‘durability’, if Olympus can put a flip screen on a cheap waterproof camera I’m pretty sure Canon can do it on a weatherproof pro camera, no my objection to flip screens is they are comparatively big and bulky and yet the screen is much smaller than it could be if it wasn’t a flip screen. But I know I am fighting an uphill battle on that one.


I agree , I'd much rather have a large fixed screen with a tilting evf (maybe 2 tilting viewfinders) or at least the option to replace the standard eyecup with a Hoodman one and also attach an angle viewfinder as I don't think any R series cameras have removable eyecups


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## Chig (May 28, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> I sound like a broken record on this, since I said it during the R5 leaks, but I am really hopeful that the viewfinder eyecup comes off. It's far cheaper to replace a swappable eyecup and allows you to mount a rain cover eyepiece on the viewfinder. I get the impression that, since the eye-detection lens is no longer on the plastic eyecup like on the EOS R5, maybe they will finally allow you to take this one off?
> 
> It makes really no sense to me Canon randomly decided all R cameras had to have fixed-piece eyecups when every other comparable brand gives you replaceable ones.


I hope so too , I have an eos 30V with the eye controlled focus and fitting a large Hoodman eyecup makes the eye control much more consistent as it holds you eye in a fixed position .
I also use a Canon angle viewfinder B for shooting at ground level with a skimmer and gimbol which means I can kneel in the mud rather than lie down in it.


----------



## Mr Majestyk (May 28, 2021)

[email protected] said:


> Unfortunately, it looks like the first big whites to come to the RF mount will be the old big whites with adapters pasted on. It is true that the 500 and 300 didn't get Mark III treatments back in the EF days, so perhaps there will be some actual new design to those when they finally surface. A 500mm f/4 III would have been a treat with 20 percent less weight.
> 
> The long-yearned-for 600mm DO is the new unicorn, ever since a mock-up was shown in NYC years ago. That on an R3 would be deadly for run-and-gun wildlife. But don't go getting giddy over that sort of thing just yet. Canon is going to have us chew through some Mark III inventory stuck to adapters first.



Hang on the RF 400 and 600 arer already out, and I was referring to Canon Rumours own post that next year we get 500 f/4 and that the first 300 f/2.8 we might get is a zoom. It also mentioned the 500 f/4 would be much smaller and lighter. Only way I can see that happening is with DO. These shouldn't be lazy efforts like the 400 and 600 that basically just welded on the EF-RF adapter ala Sigma for Sony. They should be designed for RF natively.


----------



## maulanawale (May 28, 2021)

jam05 said:


> For those who said that a pro body had to have a fixed display because of weather sealing. This body clearly dispells that theory. Canon has clearly incorporated the moveable and most likely full touch display into a professional body.



First message here so I'll take the chance to say Hi!

I know they compete in different categories but the Olympus EM1X, although not regarded as a pro camera by many/most, is basically waterproof and has a tilt flip screen that works a treat. I own it and have put the camera under the tap to clean off mud. That is a 3 year old camera that sells for 1600£ now, so surely all the big brands could implement it if they wanted to. FWIW, to me a flippy-tilty screen makes using the camera that much easier and in fact, there are countless photos I would have struggled to take had I not had it.

I just hope the R3 resolution makes sense for wildlife and it's priced right, cause it sure looks like a proper tool for the job


----------



## Chig (May 28, 2021)

blackcoffee17 said:


> Would not be easier to just make a mechanism to rotate the sensor 90 degrees at a press of a button for portrait mode?
> Instead of adding all these extra buttons, dials, grip space, etc? That way would not have to readjust your hand and deal with
> the rotated LCD, etc. Or just add a square sensor and then readjust aspect ratio in a fraction of a second.
> 
> I know a grip can store a bigger battery but many only need it for portrait mode.


Unfortunately Canon have made the mount interface so that it would obscure the sensor if it was rotated .
An aps-c sensor which is either round (27mm diameter) or rotating would work though


----------



## Cyborx (May 28, 2021)

goldenhusky said:


> From the looks the battery seems to be at least the same size as 1dx3. Anyone know if Canon mentioned it anywhere? If it is compatible with the old battery at least that will be helpful for some folks.


Of course not..


----------



## Ozarker (May 28, 2021)

maulanawale said:


> First message here so I'll take the chance to say Hi!
> 
> I know they compete in different categories but the Olympus EM1X, although not regarded as a pro camera by many/most, is basically waterproof and has a tilt flip screen that works a treat. I own it and have put the camera under the tap to clean off mud. That is a 3 year old camera that sells for 1600£ now, so surely all the big brands could implement it if they wanted to. FWIW, to me a flippy-tilty screen makes using the camera that much easier and in fact, there are countless photos I would have struggled to take had I not had it.
> 
> I just hope the R3 resolution makes sense for wildlife and it's priced right, cause it sure looks like a proper tool for the job


Welcome to Canon Rumors. I'm an old man with bad knees and back. The articulated screens are a joy to me.


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## .jan (May 28, 2021)

absolutely love that Canon embrace the 3-dial control layout!


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## Chig (May 28, 2021)

pixel8foto said:


> Immediate annoyance: horizontal and vertical grip buttons and dials aren't consistently placed, relative to one another. With the R5+grip it's awful. This looks like it might be a bit better, but it should be perfect.


I agree , my 7D ii grip is great ergonomically but it doesn't quite match the main body and an integrated grip should be exactly the same


----------



## sulla (May 28, 2021)

Chig said:


> The flippy screen means you get a tiny screen


I never missed a flippy screen on my several 5D mark-somethings, but once working with a 60D with flippy screen made me instantaneously miss it on the 5D-series.

So: flippy screen trumps large screen.


----------



## peters (May 28, 2021)

Cyborx said:


> Of course not..


I think its very likely that it works. They sticked with the LP-E6 for the Canon R5, and since this looks like the same old 1D battery, I guess it will be an updated version but with downward compatibility =)


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## blackcoffee17 (May 28, 2021)

Mr Majestyk said:


> Hang on the RF 400 and 600 arer already out, and I was referring to Canon Rumours own post that next year we get 500 f/4 and that the first 300 f/2.8 we might get is a zoom. It also mentioned the 500 f/4 would be much smaller and lighter. Only way I can see that happening is with DO. These shouldn't be lazy efforts like the 400 and 600 that basically just welded on the EF-RF adapter ala Sigma for Sony. They should be designed for RF natively.



I still don't understand why Canon did not bother at least to "weld" a control ring adapter instead of just a basic one. These are $12K lenses and even the ultra cheap 50mm 1.8 has a control ring.


----------



## Bahrd (May 28, 2021)

sulla said:


> I never missed a flippy screen on my several 5D mark-somethings, but once working with a 60D with flippy screen made me instantaneously miss it on the 5D-series.
> 
> So: flippy screen trumps large screen.


I have a privilege of using 70D, 6D and 1D Mk III (without X). It looks like R3 has all their advantages (FF, DP AF, flipped screen and grip) integrated (plus Eye-Control AF).
Now, I just only hope R3 won't be cheap enough to tempt me...


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## slclick (May 28, 2021)

I love my gimpy 20 mp and flippy tiny bezeled to hell screen on the R6. Can you imagine the whining if some of these folks had to live with cameras from 10-40 years ago? Oh that's right, it would all seem miraculous. Spoiled brats.


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## Exploreshootshare (May 28, 2021)

slclick said:


> Can you imagine the whining if some of these folks had to live with cameras from 10-40 years ago? Oh that's right, it would all seem miraculous. Spoiled brats.


And now imagine how those people, who lived and worked with cameras 10-40 years ago, would complain if they had to work with cameras which were created 40-80 years ago? Comparing generations to each almost never works for me because mostly people just single out one factor...

Today, in order to stand out and make a living of ones images, photographers have to make incredible pictures and - among other things such as skills - in order to do so, they need the best tools available. 50 years ago, fewer people had cameras, but print media was sold in large numbers, so it was actually possible to make a living with "mediocre imagines" and therefore - maybe - less complaining...If you went to India and got a shot of tiger, you were able to sell it even it was blurry. Not today... it needs to pinpoint sharp... 

I, of course, did the same here and singled only one point. I did that in order to make a point_ comparing generation usually never works without looking at the great picture... therefore, I wouldn't call anybody who wants a floppy screen a spoiled brat...

using outdated old tech would be a reason for whining in EVERY generation...


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## vjlex (May 28, 2021)

Such a beautiful camera. Maybe I can afford it in a few years... when they're getting ready to release the R3 Mark II.


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## neuroanatomist (May 28, 2021)

sulla said:


> I never missed a flippy screen on my several 5D mark-somethings, but once working with a 60D with flippy screen made me instantaneously miss it on the 5D-series.
> 
> So: flippy screen trumps large screen.


I agree. Not counting the M6 (which has tilt but not full articulation), I had only fixed screens until the EOS R. I used an Angle Finder C with my 1D X occasionally. First serious use of the EOS R was on a trip to Whistler, BC where I snowshoed up to partially-frozen waterfalls, and because at some spots I was standing on several meters of powder and wanted long exposures, the only place to set up my tripod was on the snowshoes I was wearing. That necessitated a reduced leg spread that put the camera at my waist, but the articulated display allowed me to get the shots.


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## LSXPhotog (May 28, 2021)

This is shaping up to be an ergonomic masterpiece. Can't wait! I imagine the sensor will be the last thing we hear details about.


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## canonmike (May 28, 2021)

jam05 said:


> For those who said that a pro body had to have a fixed display because of weather sealing. This body clearly dispells that theory. Canon has clearly incorporated the moveable and most likely full touch display into a professional body.


Concur jam05, however we don't have any track record yet, showing the swivel screen will not be it's inclement weather weak point over time. We're all excited to see what the R3 can do and how it will hold up to professional use and abuse. Perhaps, the upcoming Japan Olympics will shed some light on both.


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## canonmike (May 28, 2021)

blackcoffee17 said:


> I still don't understand why Canon did not bother at least to "weld" a control ring adapter instead of just a basic one. These are $12K lenses and even the ultra cheap 50mm 1.8 has a control ring.


Aye, mate, that is the question, indeed, to which no one has given a valid answer. I was surprised at the omission, as well.


----------



## canonmike (May 28, 2021)

maulanawale said:


> First message here so I'll take the chance to say Hi!
> 
> I know they compete in different categories but the Olympus EM1X, although not regarded as a pro camera by many/most, is basically waterproof and has a tilt flip screen that works a treat. I own it and have put the camera under the tap to clean off mud. That is a 3 year old camera that sells for 1600£ now, so surely all the big brands could implement it if they wanted to. FWIW, to me a flippy-tilty screen makes using the camera that much easier and in fact, there are countless photos I would have struggled to take had I not had it.
> 
> I just hope the R3 resolution makes sense for wildlife and it's priced right, cause it sure looks like a proper tool for the job


I have always been surprised that Olympus does not sell many more cameras than what they do. They make some great products and have a cult like following.


----------



## cfibanez (May 28, 2021)

Here waiting for the Canon R1...


----------



## reef58 (May 28, 2021)

sulla said:


> I never missed a flippy screen on my several 5D mark-somethings, but once working with a 60D with flippy screen made me instantaneously miss it on the 5D-series.
> 
> So: flippy screen trumps large screen.


I love flippy screens but unfortunately I love L brackets. It is a tough life I live.


----------



## danfaz (May 28, 2021)

SwissFrank said:


> I find the entire series from EOS-1 on to be fantastic: 1, 1N, 1V, 1D's and 1Ds's.


Me, too. Might get some chuckles here, but I always thought the top portion of the 1D series looked like a Samurai warrior in full battle gear.


----------



## Ozarker (May 28, 2021)

canonmike said:


> I have always been surprised that Olympus does not sell many more cameras than what they do. They make some great products and have a cult like following.


I have an Olympus. I love the way it looks. For me, that's where the attraction ends. Menus? OMG!!!!


----------



## freejay (May 28, 2021)

I have this idea that the R3 will be able to track a specific subject, e.g. a dedicated person ('s face) like the bride on a wedding. This (from Canon USA) sounds a bit like it (last sentence):


```
The EOS R5 and R6 were only the beginning.
Using Deep Learning technology,
the upcoming EOS R3 will offer enhanced AF performance
and tracking capabilities, with even better face-, eye-,
head- and body-detection.
And, the EOS R3 will add a new type of subject recognition, for its AF system.
```


----------



## neuroanatomist (May 28, 2021)

reef58 said:


> I love flippy screens but unfortunately I love L brackets. It is a tough life I live.


The two are not incompatible. I have an RRS L-bracket on my EOS R. It constrains the movement a bit, but not excessively.

I do hope the RRS bracket for the R3 is modular like the one for my 1DX, the bracket for the EOS R is a single piece.


----------



## SereneSpeed (May 28, 2021)

blackcoffee17 said:


> I still don't understand why Canon did not bother at least to "weld" a control ring adapter instead of just a basic one. These are $12K lenses and even the ultra cheap 50mm 1.8 has a control ring.


Ergonomics? Those are long lenses. I can’t see wanting my left hand to come all the way back towards the body to adjust the control ring, while using lenses that long. The new bodies have enough controls to adjust the exposure triangle with your right hand. Even with the much shorter 100-400ii, it feels uncomfortable to adjust the control ring. For me at least.


----------



## Deleted member 381342 (May 28, 2021)

I was hoping for a fixed screen or a flip out. Articulating screens are a bunch of extra steps to get a low shot.


----------



## privatebydesign (May 28, 2021)

freejay said:


> I have this idea that the R3 will be able to track a specific subject, e.g. a dedicated person ('s face) like the bride on a wedding. This (from Canon USA) sounds a bit like it (last sentence):
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


I think we are years from that kind of scenario in retail cameras, maybe high end security cameras but not regular cameras.

I think you are reading too much into Canon's statements, the R5 and R6 do not 'learn', they were taught/programmed with a large number of possible scenarios, they never learn more nor refine their processes as they get more experience. That is not 'learning' and it is not Ai, it is marketing bull...


----------



## Adelino (May 28, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> I think we are years from that kind of scenario in retail cameras, maybe high end security cameras but not regular cameras.
> 
> I think you are reading too much into Canon's statements, the R5 and R6 do not 'learn', they were taught/programmed with a large number of possible scenarios, they never learn more nor refine their processes as they get more experience. That is not 'learning' and it is not Ai, it is marketing bull...


They can be "taught" with updates though? Is that something that happens?


----------



## dcm (May 28, 2021)

SereneSpeed said:


> Ergonomics? Those are long lenses. I can’t see wanting my left hand to come all the way back towards the body to adjust the control ring, while using lenses that long. The new bodies have enough controls to adjust the exposure triangle with your right hand. Even with the much shorter 100-400ii, it feels uncomfortable to adjust the control ring. For me at least.



The control ring on the RF800 is just beyond the focus ring where you would want it, not next to the body. This might require major modifications to the existing EF lenses. 




I attached 2" ARCA plate to the tripod mount, extending forward under the focus ring so the lens weight is not on the rings when handheld. The plate rests in the palm of my hand, with easy access to both the focus ring (ring finger, pinkie) and control ring (index finger, middle finger). I do find the control ring quite helpful for exposure compensation when shooting birds. With eye-AF, I don't seem to use the focus ring that often.


----------



## gregster (May 28, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> I think we are years from that kind of scenario in retail cameras, maybe high end security cameras but not regular cameras.
> 
> I think you are reading too much into Canon's statements, the R5 and R6 do not 'learn', they were taught/programmed with a large number of possible scenarios, they never learn more nor refine their processes as they get more experience. That is not 'learning' and it is not Ai, it is marketing bull...



I don't think it's that far fetched. The way it's described sounds similar to Sony's real-time tracking mode, where objects are tracked without requiring eye/head detection.


----------



## SteveC (May 28, 2021)

Adelino said:


> They can be "taught" with updates though? Is that something that happens?


Even if it did, it'd be a far cry from a camera that learned from its own experience, which would be useful in that it could eventually figure out how you yourself want to handle a situation (though it would be maddening if you are more unpredictable or are yourself learning, because it would think the thing you did six months ago is what you want to do now and you'd constantly have to undo that).

And it can only be 'taught' what Canon is aware it needs to know.


----------



## privatebydesign (May 28, 2021)

Adelino said:


> They can be "taught" with updates though? Is that something that happens?


Well it depends on your definition of taught. If you mean it can have more random scenarios programmed in then yes, but I don't think that is most peoples idea of learning. That would be closer to gaining unique insight due to specific individual use and changing the actions based on the results of those new experiences. How could a camera do that if the results of its actions are never graded, it doesn't 'know' when it did better so it can't 'learn'.


----------



## privatebydesign (May 28, 2021)

gregster said:


> I don't think it's that far fetched. The way it's described sounds similar to Sony's real-time tracking mode, where objects are tracked without requiring eye/head detection.


That is 'an object' not a self determined specific subject. What was proposed is a scenario where, for instance, a bride and father were walking down an aisle and the camera 'knew' the bride from the father. Nothing in the regular camera scene can do that yet, so far the camera knows there are two subjects walking towards it but it prioritizes those two subjects due to pre determined and dumb criteria. Normally the closest subject gets priority.

I think we are years away from a point where regular cameras can face detect, that is, you could take a scan of the bride while getting dressed and then for the rest of the day the camera will scan any face in the frame and prioritize AF to her. I can see it happening it time, but we are years away from it being commercially available or affordable.

When it does happen it will happen in phones first because they can already recognize individual faces.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (May 28, 2021)

polaris8030 said:


> it could be that the articulated lcd screen makes the R3 a notch 'less pro' than the R1


I can imagine a pro-level articulating screen but the hinge would need to be more rugged.
A fixed screen seems almost pointless on a DSLM since photographers would mostly use the EVF and videographers prefer flip screens.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (May 28, 2021)

degos said:


> Your phone screen is glued to the frame and doesn't flip out. A bezel helps maintain rigidity and also protects the screen edges.


Maybe, but none of that excuses the enormous size of the camera bump when compared to my phone.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (May 28, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> You clearly aren't capable of absorbing the information that the R3 screen hinge could have been omitted and the same space used for a larger fixed screen.
> 
> These are to scale. The distance from the edge of the R3 to the actual screen edge is much larger than the distance from the edge of the 1DX II to the viewable screen edge.
> 
> ...


You are kind of both right but pointlessly arguing.
The reason that the R3 screen could be bigger is that it needs its own bezels for durability.
If it had no bezels then the space taken up the hinge would be negligible.
An R1 would be expected to be even more durable so it would require an even bigger hinge and even bigger bezels.
On the other hand, a flip-screen adds extra durability when flipped closed.


----------



## dcm (May 28, 2021)

Adelino said:


> They can be "taught" with updates though? Is that something that happens?



This article is a nice introduction to Artificial Intelligence and Machine Learning in cameras.

TL;DR
The jist of the article is that the learning is done in the lab using a collection of sample images to determine the configuration of the neural network. The finished neural newtork is loaded into cameras. The camera doesn't have the processing power to learn, but it can use a network that has already been learned.

Each sensor and digic combination will likely require a different neural network. Sensors will have different characteristics and digics will have different processing capabilities. We see this in newer processors like the Apple M1 which includes a neural engine on the chip. Incremental mprovements to the neural network could come from training with additional images and downloaded via firmware. Large improvements will come from new system/digic combinations.

If you want more detail, there is a recent paper in the IEEE Transactions on Computational Imaging entitled Deep Learning for Camera Autofocus.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (May 28, 2021)

DBounce said:


> Don’t think canon will have a mechanical shutter on a camera that is global shutter. It seems redundant.


A mechanical shutter consumes less energy and protects the sensor from dust.
On the other hand, thanks to Kolari we know there is room for internal ND and IBIS together in the RF mount.








Kolari R Magnetic Clip-In Filter for Canon RF Mount


We’re excited to introduce our new R mount clip filters as well! Compatible with the R adapter, or native RF lenses, these can be used to add rear filtering to RF lenses, or two layers of filtering when paired with the R filter adapter. The clip filter can be used to quickly change the effective...




kolarivision.com




It is possible that removing the mechanical shutter would leave room for stacking two.
The best would be mechanical shutter + internal ND + IBIS.


----------



## privatebydesign (May 28, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> You are kind of both right but pointlessly arguing.
> The reason that the R3 screen could be bigger is that it needs its own bezels for durability.
> If it had no bezels then the space taken up the hinge would be negligible.
> An R1 would be expected to be even more durable so it would require an even bigger hinge and even bigger bezels.
> On the other hand, a flip-screen adds extra durability when flipped closed.


Er, no. Either hinges exist in space or they don't. If they do exist then that means something else can't exist in that space, if they don't exist then it means something else can occupy that space. There is no "both right" to that.

My two images perfectly illustrate the concept and practical use of... hinges.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (May 28, 2021)

Adelino said:


> They can be "taught" with updates though? Is that something that happens?


That only works if there is some sort of feedback like Tesla has with Autopilot.
The car itself does not learn but it records its mistakes.
Tesla compiles all the mistakes from each car.
Then when common solutions are found they push them out to all of the cars.
The only feedback Canon has is when we report errors.


----------



## dcm (May 28, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> That is 'an object' not a self determined specific subject. What was proposed is a scenario where, for instance, a bride and father were walking down an aisle and the camera 'knew' the bride from the father. Nothing in the regular camera scene can do that yet, so far the camera knows there are two subjects walking towards it but it prioritizes those two subjects due to pre determined and dumb criteria. Normally the closest subject gets priority.
> 
> I think we are years away from a point where regular cameras can face detect, that is, you could take a scan of the bride while getting dressed and then for the rest of the day the camera will scan any face in the frame and prioritize AF to her. I can see it happening it time, but we are years away from it being commercially available or affordable.
> 
> When it does happen it will happen in phones first because they can already recognize individual faces.


Object identification has improved a lot as we see with the people/animal and eye tracking options. The camera may already detect mutiple objects like the smartphones, but only shows you the one selected for AF based on its current rules. What's missing is a method to let you select which object(s) you would like to maintain in focus when multiple objects exist. A joystick approach may work for this. Paired with eye-controlled focus on the M3 to select an object, this might be kind of interesting. Instead of moving from focus zone to focus zone, the AF would simply move object to object - the objects become the AF zones. And this might make the R3 much more interesting.


----------



## maulanawale (May 28, 2021)

canonmike said:


> I have always been surprised that Olympus does not sell many more cameras than what they do. They make some great products and have a cult like following.


To be honest, I think their main problem has always been their disastrous marketing strategy. Granted the system has shortcomings, but it still perfectly capable and in some use cases, more convenient than FF set ups. Having both is the ultimate kit for me.


CanonFanBoy said:


> I have an Olympus. I love the way it looks. For me, that's where the attraction ends. Menus? OMG!!!!



lol yep, but after using Sony, even Olympus is a breath of fresh air in terms of menus. I’m very partial to the EM1X anyway mainly because I enjoy using it like a kid with a new toy.
Sorry for the off topic, I came here to geek out on the R3


----------



## Chig (May 28, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> I was hoping for a fixed screen or a flip out. Articulating screens are a bunch of extra steps to get a low shot.


A fixed screen and a tilting viewfinder or a second fixed one on top would be better for me


----------



## privatebydesign (May 28, 2021)

dcm said:


> Object identification has improved a lot as we see with the people/animal and eye tracking options. The camera may already detect mutiple objects like the smartphones, but only shows you the one selected for AF based on its current rules. What's missing is a method to let you select which object(s) you would like to maintain in focus when multiple objects exist. A joystick approach may work for this. Paired with eye-controlled focus on the M3 to select an object, this might be kind of interesting. Instead of moving from focus zone to focus zone, the AF would simply move object to object - the objects become the AF zones. And this might make the R3 much more interesting.


We weren't talking about 'objects' we were talking about specific people in the context of the camera not only knowing how many people are in a frame but using AF to track a pre specified individual that it recognizes automatically from the various people within that frame. 

If people freak out about being tracked by GPS that is turned off and doesn't transmit anyway goodness only knows what they will make of AF that recognizes and tracks specific individuals automatically.


----------



## SteveC (May 28, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> We weren't talking about 'objects' we were talking about specific people in the context of the camera not only knowing how many people are in a frame but using AF to track a pre specified individual that it recognizes automatically from the various people within that frame.
> 
> If people freak out about being tracked by GPS that is turned off and doesn't transmit anyway goodness only knows what they will make of AF that recognizes and tracks specific individuals automatically.


We already know that; facial recognition technology for security cams, etc., has been freaked out about already.


----------



## AEWest (May 28, 2021)

Chig said:


> A fixed screen and a tilting viewfinder or a second fixed one on top would be better for me


Doubt we will ever see a fixed screen again.


----------



## dcm (May 28, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> We weren't talking about 'objects' we were talking about specific people in the context of the camera not only knowing how many people are in a frame but using AF to track a pre specified individual that it recognizes automatically from the various people within that frame.
> 
> If people freak out about being tracked by GPS that is turned off and doesn't transmit anyway goodness only knows what they will make of AF that recognizes and tracks specific individuals automatically.



I understood that. In camera training is still a ways off. 

I was just offering the half step that should be more reachable from current technology. Facial recognition requires a bit more processing, unless you have a limited set of faces to recognise. Then it comes down to training, possibly not in the camera, and downloading the trained elements to the camera. If you have it trained to multiple faces, you would still need a selection method. It would also require enough pixels on the face to do the recognition in camera - more pixels, higher confidence.


----------



## pedroesteban (May 28, 2021)

dcm said:


> Object identification has improved a lot as we see with the people/animal and eye tracking options. The camera may already detect mutiple objects like the smartphones, but only shows you the one selected for AF based on its current rules. What's missing is a method to let you select which object(s) you would like to maintain in focus when multiple objects exist. A joystick approach may work for this. Paired with eye-controlled focus on the M3 to select an object, this might be kind of interesting. Instead of moving from focus zone to focus zone, the AF would simply move object to object - the objects become the AF zones. And this might make the R3 much more interesting.


The R5 already does that. If the camera detects both eyes, for instance, it chooses one to focus and shows an arrow next to the focus box to let you know that you can change eyes by tapping the joystick.


----------



## polaris8030 (May 29, 2021)

freejay said:


> I have this idea that the R3 will be able to track a specific subject, e.g. a dedicated person ('s face) like the bride on a wedding. This (from Canon USA) sounds a bit like it (last sentence):
> 
> 
> ```
> ...


the deep learning label has been applied to so many things from low cost surveillance cameras that track faces to self driving cars - I feel Canon's DNN will do as they claim above -- tracking not just eye and face (front) but body (back) - but I do hope they build it with a hardware that can continue to 'learn' in the field. new type of subject recognition ?? -- no clue, maybe distinguishing between children faces versus adult face ??


----------



## usern4cr (May 29, 2021)

DBounce said:


> Don’t think canon will have a mechanical shutter on a camera that is global shutter. It seems redundant.


When they come out with a global shutter R... body, I doubt they'd also need a mechanical shutter as well. But they still might want to protect the sensor when the lens is removed. They could do this by having a pop down neutral density filter. That would be a nice user controlled option for photo use as well as an auto pop-down when the lens is removed.


----------



## Chig (May 29, 2021)

I'm a bit disappointed with the controls on the vertical grip being in different positions particularly the 3rd control dial being slightly proud of the body in normal position and then set about 1 cm lower on the vertical grip.
I would prefer a square screen too so that it's the same in either horizontal or vertical even if it's a bit smaller


----------



## EOS 4 Life (May 29, 2021)

polaris8030 said:


> the deep learning label has been applied to so many things from low cost surveillance cameras that track faces to self driving cars - I feel Canon's DNN will do as they claim above -- tracking not just eye and face (front) but body (back) - but I do hope they build it with a hardware that can continue to 'learn' in the field. new type of subject recognition ?? -- no clue, maybe distinguishing between children faces versus adult face ??


Are we now pretending that cameras detecting eyes in real-time is not amazing?


----------



## SereneSpeed (May 29, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> That is 'an object' not a self determined specific subject. What was proposed is a scenario where, for instance, a bride and father were walking down an aisle and the camera 'knew' the bride from the father. Nothing in the regular camera scene can do that yet, so far the camera knows there are two subjects walking towards it but it prioritizes those two subjects due to pre determined and dumb criteria. Normally the closest subject gets priority.
> 
> I think we are years away from a point where regular cameras can face detect, that is, you could take a scan of the bride while getting dressed and then for the rest of the day the camera will scan any face in the frame and prioritize AF to her. I can see it happening it time, but we are years away from it being commercially available or affordable.
> 
> When it does happen it will happen in phones first because they can already recognize individual faces.


I've read what you've written twice and to me, you are describing Face Registration. A feature Sony has had available for years... Is this not what you are referring to: 




You 'scan' the brides face and then give it a priority, above the other faces you've registered. Then, throughout the day, the camera prioritizes her. That's what you're saying isn't available, right?


----------



## privatebydesign (May 29, 2021)

SereneSpeed said:


> I've read what you've written twice and to me, you are describing Face Registration. A feature Sony has had available for years... Is this not what you are referring to:
> 
> You 'scan' the brides face and then give it a priority, above the other faces you've registered. Then, throughout the day, the camera prioritizes her. That's what you're saying isn't available, right?


Indeed it is! I thought I was pretty familiar with most developments but that is new to me. Two questions, one, why isn’t it talked about more, and two, why haven’t they refined it to need a scan of a face? From the demos I have just watched it uses a straight on single image not a ‘face id’ style 3D scan and because of this relative simplicity it seems to lose priority when the head is turned a relatively small amount.


----------



## H. Jones (May 29, 2021)

I do wish we would have had a better look at the port-side of the R3. 

My best guess:




It's barely legible but I do believe looking at the side that Canon will have chosen to put the Mic and Headphone jacks in the same format as on the R5, to prevent them from being hit by the flip screen when in use. That would also explain why the 3-pin intervalometer was forced onto the front of the camera.

After that, it's all a toss-up. I don't really see space for the WFT, but the very large rear port cover looks like it could fit the WFT, HDMI, and USB-C ports in one space, since we know from the 1DX3 that USB-c saves a lot of room in the port areas over the older USB ports. 

In the R5, Canon also chose to isolate the PC sync from headphones/mics so I wouldn't be surprised if that was in the same place. There's another, isolated, large port to the rear of that one that appears to have a pretty square look to it, and I think that would likely be the ethernet port.

Another option, which I really hadn't thought about, is, what if Canon integrates the WFT into the camera? The WFT-R10 was a battery grip with full wi-fi features, perhaps Canon could just include top-of-the-line WIFI connectivity within the battery grip area? I could imagine they could make a "window" of plastic under the rubber grips within the metal shell of the battery grip to give it better range/connection. Total speculation, though, and I doubt Canon would want to lose the sales of the $600 WFT adapters.


----------



## Bahrd (May 29, 2021)

dcm said:


> If you want more detail, there is a recent paper in the IEEE Transactions on Computational Imaging entitled Deep Learning for Camera Autofocus.


An interesting paper. Are you working in this field?


----------



## dcm (May 29, 2021)

Bahrd said:


> An interesting paper. Are you working in this field?


Machine Learning research yes. Camera Autofocus no.


----------



## Cyborx (May 29, 2021)

It’s gonna cost a fortune, like all Canon gear this will also be heavily overpriced. Whilst Sony is playing A-game in the mirrorless segment, Canon finally has developed a mirrorless pro body, after how many years? Good lord, they must have been sleeping for the past 10 years. Just updating the 1DX with more pixels and a few more fps. I think Canon should make this R3 around 4000 euro’s. Just to make a statement, we care about you clients. We don’t want you to go bankrupt on gear. This cam is for everyone. And you know what, I am pretty sure the profit for Canon will be higher in the end too!
But don’t worry, it is always short term income an Canon... they will make it expensive... trust me.


----------



## Bahrd (May 29, 2021)

dcm said:


> Machine Learning research yes. Camera Autofocus no.


I work on the latter but appreciate the former too...


----------



## ildyria (May 29, 2021)

Chig said:


> I'm a bit disappointed with the controls on the vertical grip being in different positions particularly the 3rd control dial being slightly proud of the body in normal position and then set about 1 cm lower on the vertical grip.
> I would prefer a square screen too so that it's the same in either horizontal or vertical even if it's a bit smaller


Actually it is NOT that bad. Using the Battery Grip with the R5 is way more unusable in that regard as distance between the joystick to move the focus point and the AF-button is just terrible and require a change of the hand placement.

Here is it pretty manageable and very similar.



I superposed the rotation, matching the _*star*_ & _*focus point*_ buttons. You see that the upper wheel is very slightly differently placed, and likewise for the "1Dx III af button" and joystick, but the difference is not that significant. So for me, this is a big thumbs up.


----------



## Bengt Nyman (May 29, 2021)

Just hope they did not forget to bring back a touch of slow and accurate contrast focus for the situations where fast AI contrast detect AF gets confused and does not know what to do.


----------



## Chig (May 29, 2021)

Cyborx said:


> It’s gonna cost a fortune, like all Canon gear this will also be heavily overpriced. Whilst Sony is playing A-game in the mirrorless segment, Canon finally has developed a mirrorless pro body, after how many years? Good lord, they must have been sleeping for the past 10 years. Just updating the 1DX with more pixels and a few more fps. I think Canon should make this R3 around 4000 euro’s. Just to make a statement, we care about you clients. We don’t want you to go bankrupt on gear. This cam is for everyone. And you know what, I am pretty sure the profit for Canon will be higher in the end too!
> But don’t worry, it is always short term income an Canon... they will make it expensive... trust me.


So you don't think Sony's Alpha 1 is overpriced when it's specs are pretty much identical to the much cheaper R5 ?
Canon must be doing something right I guess when they sell more cameras than Sony and Nikon combined.
Sony has very expensive lenses too.
All decent camera gear will continue to get more and more expensive as the budget market has disappeared with smartphones so the only market left for camera companies is high end gear for professionals and enthusiasts so with the short production runs and huge R&D costs these companies need to make high margins on their gear.
Every photographer would like these miraculous new cameras to be cheaper but it's not realistic and we'll be lucky if the companies other than Sony and Canon survive and compete


----------



## Chig (May 29, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> I do wish we would have had a better look at the port-side of the R3.
> 
> My best guess:
> 
> ...


I'd imagine the magnesium body acts as a Faraday cage blocking WiFi signals , even with a plastic window as this would only let the signal out in one direction so an external WFT would be more reliable.


----------



## freejay (May 29, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> ...
> I think we are years away from a point where regular cameras can face detect...


Lightroom can find similar faces. Why shouldn't a camera be able to do that?


----------



## privatebydesign (May 29, 2021)

freejay said:


> Lightroom can find similar faces. Why shouldn't a camera be able to do that?


I was wrong, turns out Sony have had that capability for years...


----------



## Bahrd (May 29, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> I was wrong, turns out Sony have had that capability for years...


Microsoft offers a celebrity detection service. I believe it can be re-trained an used for non-celebs' face re-identification.


----------



## canonmike (May 29, 2021)

Cyborx said:


> It’s gonna cost a fortune, like all Canon gear this will also be heavily overpriced. Whilst Sony is playing A-game in the mirrorless segment, Canon finally has developed a mirrorless pro body, after how many years? Good lord, they must have been sleeping for the past 10 years. Just updating the 1DX with more pixels and a few more fps. I think Canon should make this R3 around 4000 euro’s. Just to make a statement, we care about you clients. We don’t want you to go bankrupt on gear. This cam is for everyone. And you know what, I am pretty sure the profit for Canon will be higher in the end too!
> But don’t worry, it is always short term income an Canon... they will make it expensive... trust me.


Canon does care about clients but not at the expense of profitability. Without it, there would be very limited new product coming down the Canon pipeline. They could, however, offer the R3 at a very slim profit margin, knowing they will sell a ton of RF glass with healthy profit margins built in, to make up for it. $4000 or euro's isn't going to happen but $5-5500.00 could, IMHO. At $6k, I believe there will be some buyer reluctance, in the absence of adequate performance info, albeit I know that some of you reading this will buy two of them, no matter the price. I know it's only $500.00 difference but at $5500 I'll probably take the plunge but at $6000, I'll probably wait a bit. Still, I surprise myself, having never owned a "NEW" 1D series body, that this old man would even consider spending $5k + on a camera body. On the other hand, what have I worked and saved all my life for, if I can't have a new big boys' toy to play with, especially knowing that I can just pay for it. Ok, B&H, just give me a pre-order price and an order button to punch. I'm waiting..........


----------



## Bahrd (May 29, 2021)

I have just realized the set of buttons on the grip lacks the video/still switch. 
Fans of vertical clips will surely be disappointed!


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## GoldWing (May 29, 2021)

Articulating LCD. Not for a professional sports camera.... Break, Break and Break again.... What are they thinking? Eye AF, why so you can't setup your next shot in your lens? No one who shoots pro sports had much of a voice here. 30fps!!! for what? The R3 is more gimmick and marketing heavy than most will admit.... So we wait for the R1 and hope it will be "serious"


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## EOS 4 Life (May 29, 2021)

Bahrd said:


> Microsoft offers a celebrity detection service. I believe it can be re-trained an used for non-celebs' face re-identification.


From my experience it was pretty bad


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## EOS 4 Life (May 29, 2021)

canonmike said:


> Canon does care about clients but not at the expense of profitability. Without it, there would be very limited new product coming down the Canon pipeline. They could, however, offer the R3 at a very slim profit margin, knowing they will sell a ton of RF glass with healthy profit margins built in, to make up for it. $4000 or euro's isn't going to happen but $5-5500.00 could, IMHO. At $6k, I believe there will be some buyer reluctance, in the absence of adequate performance info, albeit I know that some of you reading this will buy two of them, no matter the price. I know it's only $500.00 difference but at $5500 I'll probably take the plunge but at $6000, I'll probably wait a bit. Still, I surprise myself, having never owned a "NEW" 1D series body, that this old man would even consider spending $5k + on a camera body. On the other hand, what have I worked and saved all my life for, if I can't have a new big boys' toy to play with, especially knowing that I can just pay for it. Ok, B&H, just give me a pre-order price and an order button to punch. I'm waiting..........


R5 and R6 are selling like crazy.
Canon has little reason to compete on margin.
It is always easier to charge a higher price and then lower it later but setting the price too high could make them look greedy.


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## AEWest (May 29, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> Articulating LCD. Not for a professional sports camera.... Break, Break and Break again.... What are they thinking? Eye AF, why so you can't setup your next shot in your lens? No one who shoots pro sports had much of a voice here. 30fps!!! for what? The R3 is more gimmick and marketing heavy than most will admit.... So we wait for the R1 and hope it will be "serious"


Best solution for you may be to wait until R3 is introduced and then pick up several 1Dx3's that will likey get a price cut.

Articulating LCDs are here to stay, even for the R1 in my view. Perhaps the R1 could have a screen that can be locked closed with a good latch for improved durability when articulation is not needed.

Hopefully there will be various shooting modes in the R3 that can select max shooting speed of 10, 20 or 30 fps. We shall see.


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## privatebydesign (May 29, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> Articulating LCD. Not for a professional sports camera.... Break, Break and Break again.... What are they thinking? Eye AF, why so you can't setup your next shot in your lens? No one who shoots pro sports had much of a voice here. 30fps!!! for what? The R3 is more gimmick and marketing heavy than most will admit.... So we wait for the R1 and hope it will be "serious"


The thing about articulating screens breaking is vastly over played. Having said that we shouldn’t forget that it is only more vulnerable to breakage if it is articulated, so just tape it closed if you are that worried about durability.


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## jam05 (May 29, 2021)

DBounce said:


> The actual view screen is much smaller. Here is a look with the brightness and exposure lifted.
> 
> View attachment 197890


It's a micro OLED


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## jam05 (May 29, 2021)

AEWest said:


> Best solution for you may be to wait until R3 is introduced and then pick up several 1Dx3's that will likey get a price cut.
> 
> Articulating LCDs are here to stay, even for the R1 in my view. Perhaps the R1 could have a screen that can be locked closed with a good latch for improved durability when articulation is not needed.
> 
> Hopefully there will be various shooting modes in the R3 that can select max shooting speed of 10, 20 or 30 fps. We shall see.





GoldWing said:


> Articulating LCD. Not for a professional sports camera.... Break, Break and Break again.... What are they thinking? Eye AF, why so you can't setup your next shot in your lens? No one who shoots pro sports had much of a voice here. 30fps!!! for what? The R3 is more gimmick and marketing heavy than most will admit.... So we wait for the R1 and hope it will be "serious"


Wake yourself up. You're writing crazy stuff and not giving any thought whatsoever. In sporting venues all over the planet there have been nothing but articulating LCDs being used all the time for decades. Being someone that's been around for awhile, I can tell you that they existed many decades before the 1DX, And quite durable. Lasting longer than other functions on the device. Maybe before you were born if you're in your 30s. What do you think are on those Broadcast cameras, handycams, camcorders, etc,? Duh, articulating LCDs. Even pro Cinema cameras have articulating LCDs. Been there for many decades and used by professionals. Very few broadcast cameras have fixed LCDs. Why? Because they are most often shoulder mounted. So the notion that LCDs that swing out are not "Professional" is sorta immature or uninformed at best. Cine cameras have articulated or swing out LCDs for many reasons, one being so that a second person can pull focus. Yeah, most often professionals. Articulating LCDs are used in aerospace, military applications on the battle field, and countless other applications including law enforcement. "We wait for the R1"...... speak for yourself. The R1 will have an articulating LCD also. Journalist and photogs in stadiums would have leaped for joy for having an articulated LCD while holding that 1Dx above their heads while truely "spraying and praying" during after event interviews and sessions. Countless have attested to it. You don't want to use it, don't bother with it then.


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## jeanluc (May 29, 2021)

I wouldn’t buy ANY camera body these days without an articulated screen. Especially a $6K one. If you are worried about breakage, just leave it folded in.


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## canonmike (May 29, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> R5 and R6 are selling like crazy.
> Canon has little reason to compete on margin.
> It is always easier to charge a higher price and then lower it later but setting the price too high could make them look greedy.


Both of which are valid arguments. Expanding on your greed comment, the question then, for me, is what price would determine whether Canon was being greedy, at which point, I could very easily say, No, No, hell no Canon. However, it would be hard for me to determine greed on their part because I don't know how much it costs to design and manufacture the R3. I don't think either of us or any of us, for that matter, believe that there will be any R3 bargains for some time but many of us are at least hoping for a price that doesn't shock our budgets. There are still NO bargains on R5/6 bodies and inventory for sale on same is often , "Out Of Stock or Backordered."


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## Ozarker (May 29, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> Articulating LCD. Not for a professional sports camera.... Break, Break and Break again.... What are they thinking? Eye AF, why so you can't setup your next shot in your lens? No one who shoots pro sports had much of a voice here. 30fps!!! for what? The R3 is more gimmick and marketing heavy than most will admit.... So we wait for the R1 and hope it will be "serious"


1. Eye-AF... Turn it off! It is a selectable feature. The more you say, the more "in the dark" you seem to be.
2. "No one who shoots pro sports had much of a voice here." Ran that through Google Translate. It means, "I had no voice in the design." While continuously saying how important you, and your 24 man crew are to Canon, and that Canon pays attention to you (in this very thread).
3. Hubris. Entitlement. I lived in Orange County for many years. I know the type.


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## Skyscraperfan (May 29, 2021)

I hope the flippy screen at least gives me the option to rotate it 180 degrees and therefore protect it from scratched while I do not use it. Most of the time I will use the EVF anyway, even if it consumes more power. An EVF gives me a little of that old DLSR feeling and in sunlight the flippy screen might to work very well anyway.

Any idea why it is an LCD screen instead of an OLED screen? Does that have to to with the higher refresh rate of LCD screens at least at the moment? An OLED could save some power.


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## Bahrd (May 29, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> I hope the flippy screen at least gives me the option to rotate it 180 degrees and therefore protect it from scratched while I do not use it.


The cover could still serve as a touchpad, I think.


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## londonxt (May 29, 2021)

padam said:


> One disappointing aspect of this camera is that there are only four ways in which you can adjust the AF point
> 
> -Eye sensor
> -Multi-controller (2x)
> ...


If I had the camera I would implement my own version: tongue control, not sure if it will work though.


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## 01Spino94 (May 29, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> Wouldn't an even larger display that some of you requested also need more battery power? On the other hand the display needs less power than the EVF, although the EVP is much smaller.
> 
> I am still shocked about the suggested price. In the past the second best camera by Canon did only cost about half as much as the 1D series cameras. Would people buy a second best camera, if it costs 80% or so of the best camera?


I suspect this is not a “second best” camera in the sense of the 5D series, or the A2/A2E/EOS-5 series in the film days. This is lining up to be a “tweener” body, like the EOS-3, the T90, and the A-1. Both of those cameras were really more like technology testbeds than main line cameras. I’m wondering if the R3 is going to be like the EOS-3 in that it will launch new technologies and then never be replaced.


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## EOS 4 Life (May 29, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> The thing about articulating screens breaking is vastly over played. Having said that we shouldn’t forget that it is only more vulnerable to breakage if it is articulated, so just tape it closed if you are that worried about durability.


Canon could always lock the screen in place by default and make it so it needs to be unscrewed to be unlocked.


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## EOS 4 Life (May 29, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> I hope the flippy screen at least gives me the option to rotate it 180 degrees and therefore protect it from scratched while I do not use it. Most of the time I will use the EVF anyway, even if it consumes more power. An EVF gives me a little of that old DLSR feeling and in sunlight the flippy screen might to work very well anyway.
> 
> Any idea why it is an LCD screen instead of an OLED screen? Does that have to to with the higher refresh rate of LCD screens at least at the moment? An OLED could save some power.


To me, OLED makes the most sense for the flip-screen and a 120 FPS LCD EVF.


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## Ozarker (May 29, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Canon could always lock the screen in place by default and make it so it needs to be unscrewed to be unlocked.


Or he could secure it with Liquid Nails.


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## privatebydesign (May 29, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Canon could always lock the screen in place by default and make it so it needs to be unscrewed to be unlocked.


They could always provide a 1 series style card door lock style switch/lever. Indeed thinking about it that would be a very smart thing to do for the R1 to shut up those people who discredit the swivel screen without using it but include the functionality we all know they will use when they think we aren’t watching!


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## canonmike (May 29, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> Articulating LCD. Not for a professional sports camera.... Break, Break and Break again.... What are they thinking? Eye AF, why so you can't setup your next shot in your lens? No one who shoots pro sports had much of a voice here. 30fps!!! for what? The R3 is more gimmick and marketing heavy than most will admit.... So we wait for the R1 and hope it will be "serious"


Ja, Ja, Ja, geeeee, GoldWing, from what I've seen from your recent posts, I'm just not sure Canon will be able to make anything you like, no matter how good it is. I just hope your constant criticisms don't interfere with everyone else's perfectly good experience with same. Sounds to me like a defection to Sony may be in order before you and your Canon gear have a melt down. Now, let me go check and see if you have ever made a positive comment about your Canon gear. If so, it has somehow escaped me as I continue to wonder why you are still using Canon.


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## Busted Knuckles (May 29, 2021)

padam said:


> That EVF with the eye-control looks massive.


Might integrate the eye sensor(s) might not have that large an EVF?


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## neuroanatomist (May 29, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> They could always provide a 1 series style card door lock style switch/lever. Indeed thinking about it that would be a very smart thing to do for the R1 to shut up those people who discredit the swivel screen without using it but include the functionality we all know they will use when they think we aren’t watching!


Too much engineering. Since goldmember is such an important Canon customer, they’ll just include a tube of superglue with each of the dozens of R1 bodies he’ll certainly be buying.


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## Hector1970 (May 29, 2021)

It looks an potentially exciting camera.
I've learned to appreciate swivel screens over time. I'm surprised its in the R3 but I think its a good move.
I'm certainly ready for EVF. My near in eyesight has gone poor in the last two years and I can't tell from the screen anymore whether the image is sharp. I need to put on glasses which are annoying when taking images. 
What will decide it for me on the R3 is what progress has been made on focusing. If it can intelligently track a moving object like a bird I'm sold.
I had eye tracking in a film camera in the Canon EOS 5 but I never liked it. I'll certainly be interested in whether it works well. 
The 1DXIII focusing is better than all my other cameras but far from perfect. Big objects its very good, small objects it can still get confused in cluttered backgrounds. I am hoping the R3 will surpass it by quite a bit. Silent shutter would also be of great interest to me.
The 1DXIII is not the most silent of cameras.
I think they will price it either very close to the 1DXIII or slightly more expensive. 
I'm still not sure how Canon will create a clear separation to the R1. Probably quad pixel and maybe being able to do 5G without an adapter - somehow escaping the magnesium alloy body issue. Maybe better video specs. I think it will be so expensive it will be prohibitive even for agencies.


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## Ozarker (May 29, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> I hope the flippy screen at least gives me the option to rotate it 180 degrees and therefore protect it from scratched while I do not use it. Most of the time I will use the EVF anyway, even if it consumes more power. An EVF gives me a little of that old DLSR feeling and in sunlight the flippy screen might to work very well anyway.
> 
> Any idea why it is an LCD screen instead of an OLED screen? Does that have to to with the higher refresh rate of LCD screens at least at the moment? An OLED could save some power.


That's exactly how all the others Canon has produced work.


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## Skux (May 29, 2021)

Yeah it looks nice but where's the mode dial?


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## Finn (May 30, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> Articulating LCD. Not for a professional sports camera.... Break, Break and Break again.... What are they thinking? Eye AF, why so you can't setup your next shot in your lens? No one who shoots pro sports had much of a voice here. 30fps!!! for what? The R3 is more gimmick and marketing heavy than most will admit.... So we wait for the R1 and hope it will be "serious"


LOL are you serious? Flip the screen around and leave it...you now have your "fixed" screen. Eye AF will be able to be disabled. Complaining about more frames per second...now that is a first! Now take a breath and say: "change is not always bad" 3 times.


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## Chig (May 30, 2021)

londonxt said:


> If I had the camera I would implement my own version: tongue control, not sure if it will work though.


Got that AF licked now !


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## djack41 (May 30, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> Articulating LCD. Not for a professional sports camera.... Break, Break and Break again.... What are they thinking? Eye AF, why so you can't setup your next shot in your lens? No one who shoots pro sports had much of a voice here. 30fps!!! for what? The R3 is more gimmick and marketing heavy than most will admit.... So we wait for the R1 and hope it will be "serious"


So don't articulate the screen and try to break it. Hard to do. 30 fps is fantastic. Your joking, right?


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## privatebydesign (May 30, 2021)

Exploreshootshare said:


> And now imagine how those people, who lived and worked with cameras 10-40 years ago, would complain if they had to work with cameras which were created 40-80 years ago? Comparing generations to each almost never works for me because mostly people just single out one factor...
> 
> Today, in order to stand out and make a living of ones images, photographers have to make incredible pictures and - among other things such as skills - in order to do so, they need the best tools available. 50 years ago, fewer people had cameras, but print media was sold in large numbers, so it was actually possible to make a living with "mediocre imagines" and therefore - maybe - less complaining...If you went to India and got a shot of tiger, you were able to sell it even it was blurry. Not today... it needs to pinpoint sharp...
> 
> ...


That is almost entirely fallacious. A professional photographer needs to be a business person above all else, you can easily get by with mediocre images and very modest equipment and ‘or skills if you are good at business. You do not “need the best tools available” indeed here on this forum there are several pros and few of them own the latest or greatest.

The numbers of images used by people and businesses now vastly outstrips everything before it and in general it isn’t quality that sells but relevance and timeliness. I shot images last weekend that have a shelf life of three weeks, by then they are worthless, the weekend before that the images had a shelf life of five days. My core business imagery has a shelf life of three to four years in general, but the counterpoint to that is I get to shoot the same thing again in three to four years....


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## FrenchFry (May 30, 2021)

As a wildlife shooter, I really appreciate being able to use all 45 MP of the R5. It enables me to shoot with prime lenses that are a bit shorter and then crop in post, when needed (typically for birds). I shoot a lot with the 400 mm DO with and without the TC. I could never bring a much longer and heavier big white with me so this setup is great for hiking into nature and shooting handheld.
I love shooting with the R5, and I would be excited to purchase an even more capable R3 if the autofocus and tracking are better. Personally, I would really hesitate to buy a body with fewer than 30 MP because of the loss in cropping ability. To me, the value of the MP is greater than the value of jumping frim 20 FPS to 30 FPS.
If Canon decides to make this a 20 MP body, it would not be very appealing to me for wildlife. It would still be a great sprts body, just not the right tool for me as a wildlife shooter who shoots handheld.
Can't wait to learn more about this exciting body and hopefully native RF telephoto lenses in the near future.


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## 10-8-244 (May 30, 2021)

canonmike said:


> Both of which are valid arguments. Expanding on your greed comment, the question then, for me, is what price would determine whether Canon was being greedy, at which point, I could very easily say, No, No, hell no Canon. However, it would be hard for me to determine greed on their part because I don't know how much it costs to design and manufacture the R3. I don't think either of us or any of us, for that matter, believe that there will be any R3 bargains for some time but many of us are at least hoping for a price that doesn't shock our budgets. There are still NO bargains on R5/6 bodies and inventory for sale on same is often , "Out Of Stock or Backordered."


Well... I found a bargain on the R5 two weeks ago through CPW "Street Prices". R5 from a B and a H for $3699.00 USD no tax and free shipping! However, the deal expired last week.


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## GoldWing (May 30, 2021)

djack41 said:


> So don't articulate the screen and try to break it. Hard to do. 30 fps is fantastic. Your joking, right?


No its just not practicle if it sacrifices resolution. And this has been the case in the past. If the camera is supposed to be for professionals, we dont use anything like this to shoot video. One of our lenses could cost $250,000. What we want is simple for still sports photography and its beyond many who have not worked in the business for 20+ years to understand. Canon is motivated by enthusiasts for the bottom line, it does not mean we have to be silent or happy with what affects us.

All we asked for in the last focus group with Canon was enhanced resolution, dual same media, greater sealing, 15 fps RAW, auto MA, end user firmwear capabililites on our big whites. Four of us asked for "sealed" external hard drive capabilities in the 2-4TB range for "harsh" shooting conditions with "buffering" in line with CFExpress.


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## GoldWing (May 30, 2021)

canonmike said:


> Ja, Ja, Ja, geeeee, GoldWing, from what I've seen from your recent posts, I'm just not sure Canon will be able to make anything you like, no matter how good it is. I just hope your constant criticisms don't interfere with everyone else's perfectly good experience with same. Sounds to me like a defection to Sony may be in order before you and your Canon gear have a melt down. Now, let me go check and see if you have ever made a positive comment about your Canon gear. If so, it has somehow escaped me as I continue to wonder why you are still using Canon.


Canon is still the best in the business. And at events they are there to support us. Us voicing our preferences at forums, in private and in public will not be shut down by those who disagree with us. Most who disagree with us are not professional sports photographers who offer global Olympic, pro and extreme coverage for top tier clients with the quality and reliability we provide.


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## neuroanatomist (May 30, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> Us voicing our preferences at forums, in private and in public will not be shut down by those who disagree with us.


No one is trying to shut you down. You can babble on this forum until hell freezes over, for all the good it will do. We care about your opinion just as much as Canon does…i.e., not at all.


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## polaris8030 (May 30, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> To me, OLED makes the most sense for the flip-screen and a 120 FPS LCD EVF.


I think it has to do with the power consumption and screen burn-in drawback of an OLED screen powered to max brightness so that you can see it in bright sunlight. OLED is 'emissive' technology - which means that the light coming out of the OLED diodes has to fight against sunlight. OLED sunlight readability was quite poor when it first appeared in smartphones but these days I find them quite acceptable and on par with LCD phone screens - but I still find LCD screens to be better in direct sunlight compared to OLED. Again, this could just be Canon not adopting the latest tech right away but keeping with older generation (and quite possibly more reliable) LCD screens with backlight. 
The EVF is not high power, needs a high resolution and I guess could be either OLED or LCD (both sport fast 120 or 144fps these days). Interestingly I am seeing VR headsets move towards LCD.


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## WilliamJ (May 30, 2021)

The return of the photo/video switch got me thinking (and I do wonder if I’ve stumbled upon a solution to saving battery that perhaps hasn’t been thought of yet), something I’ve been craving in mirrorless cameras that doesn’t seem to exist yet is a ‘DSLR like’ mode where the button in the middle of the photo/video switch (traditionally named ‘Start/Stop’) could allow you to switch off the back screen and have it so the camera only enables the EVF when the proximity sensor is detected, press the button again to go back to the current default of one of the screens always being on.

Another bug bear of mine is that during phone-wifi connection the screen is always on and even if I programme a ‘screen off’ button, it doesn’t switch it off. If I’m downloading a series of RAW images to my phone from a casual shoot, keeping the screen active during the connection is an unnecessary battery drain. 

I hope these battery saving ideas could be added eventually, maybe even in the R3!


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## canonmike (May 30, 2021)

10-8-244 said:


> Well... I found a bargain on the R5 two weeks ago through CPW "Street Prices". R5 from a B and a H for $3699.00 USD no tax and free shipping! However, the deal expired last week.


That price was, given current market conditions, a great deal......


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## usern4cr (May 30, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> The thing about articulating screens breaking is vastly over played. Having said that we shouldn’t forget that it is only more vulnerable to breakage if it is articulated, so just tape it closed if you are that worried about durability.


For those that don't like the fully articulating screen, just leave it closed with the screen in view. It clicks in place tight enough so that it won't open up by itself and will behave as if it is a non-movable screen. Now I will agree that the space used for hinging and edge openings would not be needed if it was a fixed screen, but it's not that much and you can live with it. Also for bouncy travel (airplane or backpack) you have the option to turn the screen around so it is better protected than always being exposed.


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## slclick (May 30, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> No one is trying to shut you down. You can babble on this forum until hell freezes over, for all the good it will do. We care about your opinion just as much as Canon does…i.e., not at all.





canonmike said:


> That price was, given current market conditions, a great deal......


Gordon is a great guy and everyone should look to his site for deals and support.


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## MoonMadness (May 30, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> Articulating LCD. Not for a professional sports camera.... Break, Break and Break again.... What are they thinking? Eye AF, why so you can't setup your next shot in your lens? No one who shoots pro sports had much of a voice here. 30fps!!! for what? The R3 is more gimmick and marketing heavy than most will admit.... So we wait for the R1 and hope it will be "serious"


Just put a description with specs of your "perfect camera" in your signature so we and Canon will always know what kind of "serious" camera you're looking for. Otherwise it seems like you just want to complain just to complain.


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## CanonGrunt (May 30, 2021)

I feel like I won’t be able to decide until the R1 comes out to figure out which one is really for me. But I like this so far. 




DBounce said:


> As interesting as this is, I’ll likely wait for the R1.


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## canonmike (May 30, 2021)

FrenchFry said:


> As a wildlife shooter, I really appreciate being able to use all 45 MP of the R5. It enables me to shoot with prime lenses that are a bit shorter and then crop in post, when needed (typically for birds). I shoot a lot with the 400 mm DO with and without the TC. I could never bring a much longer and heavier big white with me so this setup is great for hiking into nature and shooting handheld.
> I love shooting with the R5, and I would be excited to purchase an even more capable R3 if the autofocus and tracking are better. Personally, I would really hesitate to buy a body with fewer than 30 MP because of the loss in cropping ability. To me, the value of the MP is greater than the value of jumping frim 20 FPS to 30 FPS.
> If Canon decides to make this a 20 MP body, it would not be very appealing to me for wildlife. It would still be a great sprts body, just not the right tool for me as a wildlife shooter who shoots handheld.
> Can't wait to learn more about this exciting body and hopefully native RF telephoto lenses in the near future.


Agree with much of what you say here and hoping for R3 to have at least 30mpxl, as well. This morn, I watched Tony Northrup's latest YT commentary and he pretty much feels it will come out with only 20 mp. and be priced at around $6k. I do hope he is wrong on both counts. Why would we need this body to have only 20 mp, when the R6 already covers that range. If he is right, that may dampen my enthusiasm for same, causing me to rethink whether I really need it or not.


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## privatebydesign (May 30, 2021)

canonmike said:


> Agree with much of what you say here and hoping for R3 to have at least 30mpxl, as well. This morn, I watched Tony Northrup's latest YT commentary and he pretty much feels it will come out with only 20 mp. and be priced at around $6k. I do hope he is wrong on both counts. Why would we need this body to have only 20 mp, when the R6 already covers that range. If he is right, that may dampen my enthusiasm for same, causing me to rethink whether I really need it or not.


I’d happily buy an R3 with 20mp but I wouldn’t be interested in an R6. Having said that I don’t think the R3 will have 20mp, or close to it, I believe the R1 will.


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## Skyscraperfan (May 30, 2021)

The R6 does not align with its battery grip at all. So I would be willing to pay a premium for the R3, even if it was just a R6 with a better looking body and less overheating. Of course that premium should not be $3400.


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## Jack Douglas (May 30, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> I’d happily buy an R3 with 20mp but I wouldn’t be interested in an R6. Having said that I don’t think the R3 will have 20mp, or close to it, I believe the R1 will.


I'd happily not buy an R3 with 20 mp and given that processor and memory speed are not bottlenecks anymore Canon would be nuts to be down anywhere near that level. Those who can't handle more than 20 mp should just stick with the old tech and a fixed screen. I think Canon has seen the light and demonstrated that with the R5 so I'm with you - it will not be 20mp... but how much more? 

Jack


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## Hector1970 (May 30, 2021)

canonmike said:


> Agree with much of what you say here and hoping for R3 to have at least 30mpxl, as well. This morn, I watched Tony Northrup's latest YT commentary and he pretty much feels it will come out with only 20 mp. and be priced at around $6k. I do hope he is wrong on both counts. Why would we need this body to have only 20 mp, when the R6 already covers that range. If he is right, that may dampen my enthusiasm for same, causing me to rethink whether I really need it or not.


Interesting. If its 20 MP I won't be interested in it. If it is somewhere between 30 and 50MP then I'm sold. 
I think 20MP is far too few MP when Canon is on the verge of selling 100 MP cameras. It limits the flexiblity of use for the camera. It makes it hard to justify the price tag. II'd personally be surprised if its less than 50MP but I've no insight into what Canon will do. It depends on what personal use is but for birding MP matters.


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## canonmike (May 30, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> I’d happily buy an R3 with 20mp but I wouldn’t be interested in an R6. Having said that I don’t think the R3 will have 20mp, or close to it, I believe the R1 will.


At $3K I'd be happy with 20MP but at $6K, not so sure. I do more nature and bird photography now than sports, so 20mp doesn't really get me too excited. So, there are at least two of us that doesn't think the R3 will have only 20mp, as we anxiously wait for it's spec sheet.


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## privatebydesign (May 30, 2021)

Jack Douglas said:


> I'd happily not buy an R3 with 20 mp and given that processor and memory speed are not bottlenecks anymore Canon would be nuts to be down anywhere near that level. Those who can't handle more than 20 mp should just stick with the old tech and a fixed screen. I think Canon has seen the light and demonstrated that with the R5 so I'm with you - it will not be 20mp... but how much more?
> 
> Jack


Dont get me wrong, I’d happily buy an R3 if it was 45mp. MP really aren’t the defining spec for me for an R3. But I am not in that small niche, that is disproportionately represented here, of being focal length limited so I don’t find MP to be a limiting factor.


----------



## privatebydesign (May 30, 2021)

canonmike said:


> At $3K I'd be happy with 20MP but at $6K, not so sure. I do more nature and bird photography now than sports, so 20mp doesn't really get me too excited. So, there are at least two of us that doesn't think the R3 will have only 20mp, as we anxiously wait for it's spec sheet.


Again, I don’t think the R3 will have 20mp, I was just replying to a commenter that said they would find that a no go spec, I wouldn’t.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (May 30, 2021)

polaris8030 said:


> I think it has to do with the power consumption and screen burn-in drawback of an OLED screen powered to max brightness so that you can see it in bright sunlight. OLED is 'emissive' technology - which means that the light coming out of the OLED diodes has to fight against sunlight.


You are right.
I did not really think about that.
OLED screens are popular for lower power consumption but that comes at lower NITS of brightness.
A lot of camera screens are already not bright enough and OLED only makes that worse.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (May 30, 2021)

canonmike said:


> That price was, given current market conditions, a great deal......


I bought a grey market R5 at that price but since those are not covered by the Canon warranty I had to buy one which made it cost basically the same.
I do not mind because it was nearly impossible to get an R5 at the time.
The only bad part is that Canon will not let me register it.


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## john1970 (May 30, 2021)

A while ago, photowebexpo.ru posted an interview with Canon regarding the R3 and one questioned asked was "What cameras does the EOS R3 compete with on the market?" I have copied the English translation below. Based on this information I believe the EOS R3 will be >=45 MP and have 8K video. If it does not have 8K video how does it compete with Nikon Z9 which has 8K video? Canon states that the Nikon Z9 is the closest competing model. 









Canon EOS R3 – это еще не флагман | PHOTOWEBEXPO


Во время московской выставки «Фотофорум-2021» нам удалось взять интервью у представителя компании Canon. На вопросы ответил Андрей Тищенко, руководитель отдела ...




photowebexpo.ru





What cameras will the Canon EOS R3 compete with on the market?​Of course, the closest competing model will be the Nikon Z9 , which we do not know much about yet, as the camera has just been announced and has not yet been officially unveiled. What this model will be in reality, only time and reviews will show. Canon's culture is built on respect for other manufacturers, and we always maintain a competitive marketplace that drives the advancement and emergence of new technologies for photographers. But when the Nikon D6 came out, in my opinion, it turned out to be very close to the Nikon D5. So I expect the Nikon Z9 to be a really strong and innovative camera for Nikon.
And of course, Sony a1because there are cool technologies there: fast shooting, no blackout. However, she just came out, so there is not much real filming and combat experience on her. And for cameras of this level, it will be important to evaluate the operating experience after some time. In other words, our camera will be in the segment of those cameras that are currently announced by competitors as top-end.


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## AEWest (May 31, 2021)

I doubt it will less than 45 mp. You likely don't need a stacked sensor to pump out 20 mp images at 30 fps given that the R5 can pump out 45 mp at 20 fps.

The era of 20mp professional cameras may be coming to an end.


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## Maru (May 31, 2021)

R6 R5 R3...looks like Canon doest not want to produce sub $2000 mirrorless any more...


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## peters (May 31, 2021)

AEWest said:


> I doubt it will less than 45 mp. You likely don't need a stacked sensor to pump out 20 mp images at 30 fps given that the R5 can pump out 45 mp at 20 fps.
> 
> The era of 20mp professional cameras may be coming to an end.


I think so too (and I hope so). 
The R5 allready got 20fps with 45mp. Thats not so far behind from 30 fps - given that the R3 got more space for better heat management and a higher price for a faster processor. Sony did it as well. I think its completely possible. Also canon made sure to say they are early on the 8k front - so I doubt they wouldnt include 8k in this body.

Also, it would be pretty laughable, if this was only 20-30mp. It will likely be availble no earlier than 2022 - likeley a year after Sonys A1 - and that camera allready got 45mp at 30fps today... 

Also, I realy hope Canon speeds things up a little. The quite disapointing video drawbacks (overheats gets in the way quite some time) in the R5 are not that great. The A1 apperas more and more like way advanced camera (which even offers 8k external recording without any overheat!!!). And Sonys lense selection for E mount is quite impressive by now. RF is still behind. Though thats not as bad, since I can use all my EF lenses.


----------



## slclick (May 31, 2021)

Maru said:


> R6 R5 R3...looks like Canon doest not want to produce sub $2000 mirrorless any more...


There are 3 FF models to choose from. You are on an R3 thread, remember the money gets higher as the model number gets smaller. The sub $2k model CR Forum topics might start with a 7 or an 8. Look for those posts.


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## neuroanatomist (May 31, 2021)

Maru said:


> R6 R5 R3...looks like Canon doest not want to produce sub $2000 mirrorless any more...


EOS M models are a few hundred dollars.


----------



## mpeeps (May 31, 2021)

canonmike said:


> Canon does care about clients but not at the expense of profitability. Without it, there would be very limited new product coming down the Canon pipeline. They could, however, offer the R3 at a very slim profit margin, knowing they will sell a ton of RF glass with healthy profit margins built in, to make up for it. $4000 or euro's isn't going to happen but $5-5500.00 could, IMHO. At $6k, I believe there will be some buyer reluctance, in the absence of adequate performance info, albeit I know that some of you reading this will buy two of them, no matter the price. I know it's only $500.00 difference but at $5500 I'll probably take the plunge but at $6000, I'll probably wait a bit. Still, I surprise myself, having never owned a "NEW" 1D series body, that this old man would even consider spending $5k + on a camera body. On the other hand, what have I worked and saved all my life for, if I can't have a new big boys' toy to play with, especially knowing that I can just pay for it. Ok, B&H, just give me a pre-order price and an order button to punch. I'm waiting..........


Pure validation. Thanks from this old retired teacher.


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## navastronia (May 31, 2021)

Maru said:


> R6 R5 R3...looks like Canon doest not want to produce sub $2000 mirrorless any more...



They R and RP are still rolling off assembly lines as I type this.


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## EOS 4 Life (May 31, 2021)

Maru said:


> R6 R5 R3...looks like Canon doest not want to produce sub $2000 mirrorless any more...


I think Canon needs to respond to the Sony ZV-E10.
It is a huge threat to the EF-M mount cameras.
It will not dethrone the M50 since it will cost so much less but it is rumored to cost the same as the M6 Mark II.
As much as I would like to see a new EOS M camera, Canon can respond by simply lowering the price of the existing M6 Mark II.
Although, all Canon would have to do is make an M6 Mark II with a screen that flips out to the side.
They would only have to make an announcement and that would steal much of the thunder from Sony.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (May 31, 2021)

navastronia said:


> They R and RP are still rolling off assembly lines as I type this.


There are also rumors of the next RP.


----------



## GoldWing (May 31, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


This R3 camera is a door stop a paperweight, a brick. 

Stop the tease and bring on the R1.


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## Jack Douglas (May 31, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> This R3 camera is a door stop a paperweight, a brick.
> 
> Stop the tease and bring on the R1.


I think that what Canon has in mind for the R1 is not there yet and the R3 will be pushing the boundary as it is and perhaps a stop-gap but I suspect it'll be filling a neglected niche. The idea of a flagship camera being the one and only, the best at everything is antiquated unless you can make it adaptable to various scenarios. For example, if it could function in two modes - higher MP lower speed and lower MP higher speed without any compromises. 

Jack


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 1, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> This R3 camera is a door stop a paperweight, a brick.


Interesting that you list objects that have weight, as opposed to your opinion, which has none.


----------



## AEWest (Jun 1, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> This R3 camera is a door stop a paperweight, a brick.
> 
> Stop the tease and bring on the R1.


If the R3 is a brick, what is the 1DX3? Based on info so far, the R3 bests the 1DX3 in every area we know of. And I'm sure it will have more than 20mp. Most importantly it has the RF mount.


----------



## Ozarker (Jun 1, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> Interesting that you list objects that have weight, as opposed to your opinion, which has none.


----------



## dcm (Jun 1, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> More redbud photos
> (R5 & RF 800 f11)
> 
> 
> ...


Wrong thread?


----------



## usern4cr (Jun 1, 2021)

dcm said:


> Wrong thread?


Doh! Thanks, I'll move it to where it belongs.


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## GoldWing (Jun 1, 2021)

Jack Douglas said:


> I think that what Canon has in mind for the R1 is not there yet and the R3 will be pushing the boundary as it is and perhaps a stop-gap but I suspect it'll be filling a neglected niche. The idea of a flagship camera being the one and only, the best at everything is antiquated unless you can make it adaptable to various scenarios. For example, if it could function in two modes - higher MP lower speed and lower MP higher speed without any compromises.
> 
> Jack


I agree. And many think the R1 will be just as you stated. Filling a broad gap.


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## GoldWing (Jun 1, 2021)

AEWest said:


> If the R3 is a brick, what is the 1DX3? Based on info so far, the R3 bests the 1DX3 in every area we know of. And I'm sure it will have more than 20mp. Most importantly it has the RF mount.


The R3 has an EVF. Big disadvantage for sports. But tell us what you know that "The R3" beats a 1DXMKIII. We all would like to know


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 1, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> The R3 has an EVF. Big disadvantage for sports. But tell us what you know that "The R3" beats a 1DXMKIII. We all would like to know


So _that's_ why you're so excited for the R1...because you believe it won't have an EVF. Lol.


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## privatebydesign (Jun 1, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> The R3 has an EVF. Big disadvantage for sports. But tell us what you know that "The R3" beats a 1DXMKIII. We all would like to know


I’m sorry but that just isn’t necessarily true. EVF’s up to now have suffered somewhat from lag especially when panning with fast moving subjects, but anybody that suggests it is easy to pan with a high performance DSLR is being disingenuous, the mirror blackout at 12 and 14 fps is considerable, it’s just the devil many high fps fast panning shooters know.

As far as I can see they are both flawed systems, many of us are just more used to the DSLR flaws, so just pay your money and take your choice. But in ten years there won’t be a DSLR on the sidelines of a high end sports event, screen lag will get less and DSLR development has finished.

King Canute was smarter than people that stand and shout about DSLR’s (and I love DSLR’s).


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## AEWest (Jun 1, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> The R3 has an EVF. Big disadvantage for sports. But tell us what you know that "The R3" beats a 1DXMKIII. We all would like to know


RF mount. 30fps, new sensor, better autofocus. Just for starters.


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## Chig (Jun 1, 2021)

Maru said:


> R6 R5 R3...looks like Canon doest not want to produce sub $2000 mirrorless any more...


RP costs $1000 and I'm sure there will be more new R models at similar prices


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## Mikehit (Jun 1, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> The R3 has an EVF. Big disadvantage for sports. But tell us what you know that "The R3" beats a 1DXMKIII. We all would like to know


But....haven't you been telling us how Sony is decimating Sony's market share, what with their EVFs an' all.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jun 1, 2021)

AEWest said:


> If the R3 is a brick, what is the 1DX3?


A cinder block


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## Aaron D (Jun 1, 2021)

OK yeah, I want one of these.


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## Ekpil (Jun 1, 2021)

Fake for comparison R3 R5 and 1DX lll
You see 2 of my real Cameras and the R3 as good as possible squeezed in !

This for me but I do share


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## AEWest (Jun 1, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> The R3 has an EVF. Big disadvantage for sports. But tell us what you know that "The R3" beats a 1DXMKIII. We all would like to know


Maybe Pentax in your future?


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## SteveC (Jun 1, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> So we wait for the R1 and hope it will be "serious"



Well, you'll hate it too.


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## GoldWing (Jun 1, 2021)

Mikehit said:


> But....haven't you been telling us how Sony is decimating Sony's market share, what with their EVFs an' all.


As of "now" there is no EVF in the world that offers all the advantages of an OVF for sports in bright light. Bloom, Lag, Color, Noise

"Rumors" are that the R1 will address this. Everyone including Nikon and SONY are waiting to see if this is true. Canon is not tipping their hand nor are their patents to research which leads many to think the EVF is a "joint-venture".

The R3 will buy Canon time.... But if the R1 is not "at least" double the resolution of the 1DXMKIII it will not sell as expected. That means that 40MP will not work... As most of you know,,, 40MP is NOT double the resolution. User determined file size from 85MP down to accommodate buffer to a sweet spot of 15fps RAW. Sports photographers know how to change files size...... 

Telling us "all you need is 20MP" is an insulting and condescending "script" in 2021.... as it was in 2020.

Some would go so far as to say.... remove the video from the IDXMKIII... Utilize the new focus system, double resolution and keep the OVF. A specialized "Stripped Down" camera for sports professionals.

Improve sealing, put in dual same media CFExpress, limit the camera to 15fps RAW. For kicks add auto MA for our big whites and the ability to update lens firmware with the camera tethered.

Cross-points across the entire VF. I would pay $8,000 per copy for this stripped down camera


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## GoldWing (Jun 1, 2021)

Jack Douglas said:


> I think that what Canon has in mind for the R1 is not there yet and the R3 will be pushing the boundary as it is and perhaps a stop-gap but I suspect it'll be filling a neglected niche. The idea of a flagship camera being the one and only, the best at everything is antiquated unless you can make it adaptable to various scenarios. For example, if it could function in two modes - higher MP lower speed and lower MP higher speed without any compromises.
> 
> Jack


higher MP lower speed and lower MP higher speed without any compromises. *BINGO*


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## AEWest (Jun 1, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> As of "now" there is no EVF in the world that offers all the advantages of an OVF for sports in bright light. Bloom, Lag, Color, Noise
> 
> "Rumors" are that the R1 will address this. Everyone including Nikon and SONY are waiting to see if this is true. Canon is not tipping their hand nor are their patents to research which leads many to think the EVF is a "joint-venture".
> 
> ...


It's not possible to keep an OVF with RF mount - no room for a mirror.


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## privatebydesign (Jun 1, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> As of "now" there is no EVF in the world that offers all the advantages of an OVF for sports in bright light. Bloom, Lag, Color, Noise
> 
> "Rumors" are that the R1 will address this. Everyone including Nikon and SONY are waiting to see if this is true. Canon is not tipping their hand nor are their patents to research which leads many to think the EVF is a "joint-venture".
> 
> ...


Why would you need auto MA on a MILC?


----------



## djack41 (Jun 1, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> No its just not practicle if it sacrifices resolution. And this has been the case in the past. If the camera is supposed to be for professionals, we dont use anything like this to shoot video. One of our lenses could cost $250,000. What we want is simple for still sports photography and its beyond many who have not worked in the business for 20+ years to understand. Canon is motivated by enthusiasts for the bottom line, it does not mean we have to be silent or happy with what affects us.
> 
> All we asked for in the last focus group with Canon was enhanced resolution, dual same media, greater sealing, 15 fps RAW, auto MA, end user firmwear capabililites on our big whites. Four of us asked for "sealed" external hard drive capabilities in the 2-4TB range for "harsh" shooting conditions with "buffering" in line with CFExpress.





GoldWing said:


> No its just not practicle if it sacrifices resolution. And this has been the case in the past. If the camera is supposed to be for professionals, we dont use anything like this to shoot video. One of our lenses could cost $250,000. What we want is simple for still sports photography and its beyond many who have not worked in the business for 20+ years to understand. Canon is motivated by enthusiasts for the bottom line, it does not mean we have to be silent or happy with what affects us.
> 
> All we asked for in the last focus group with Canon was enhanced resolution, dual same media, greater sealing, 15 fps RAW, auto MA, end user firmwear capabililites on our big whites. Four of us asked for "sealed" external hard drive capabilities in the 2-4TB range for "harsh" shooting conditions with "buffering" in line with CFExpress.


Generally, professional sports and wildlife photographers love 30 fps. It can make the difference getting the perfect shot. An articulating screen is a wonderful advancement for getting correct perspective.


----------



## GoldWing (Jun 1, 2021)

djack41 said:


> Generally, professional sports and wildlife photographers love 30 fps. It can make the difference getting the perfect shot. An articulating screen is a wonderful advancement for getting correct perspective.


On the sidelines or from the press box 99.99% of the time we don't use or need an articulating screen. With 2.8/300 and 400mm we are hand holding most of the time on the field or for Olympic and Extreme sports the* OVF is key* here and again no articulating screen.

For 800mm 600mm 200-400mm 99.99% we are on a *tripod/ mono-pod, with and without gimbal.* Again.... we are *not* using articulating screens.

*They break! This has been our experience and they are another pathway for moisture and dirt aside from braking *for the "hard knocks" our equipment takes.

Running on the field to get shots *after the game/event* are the key use for these screens when it's an important event and you're surrounded by 4-6 layers of people. A inexpensive 90D with a 16-35 held overhead at 10fps is perfect. If the camera breaks you don't care.


----------



## AEWest (Jun 1, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> On the sidelines or from the press box 99.99% of the time we don't use or need an articulating screen. With 2.8/300 and 400mm we are hand holding most of the time on the field or for Olympic and Extreme sports the* OVF is key* here and again no articulating screen.
> 
> For 800mm 600mm 200-400mm 99.99% we are on a *tripod/ mono-pod, with and without gimbal.* Again.... we are *not* using articulating screens.
> 
> ...


Its tough to make a specialty camera for one specific use. The manufacturer has to try to balance various user groups' needs with tech innovation, cost of production and estimated market size, as well as selling price.

Thus, every camera going forward will have video capability, not having it would be marketing suicide. And to have video you need some type of articulating screen.

Nikon Z only have tilt screens and are heavily criticized by many for it.


----------



## Maru (Jun 1, 2021)

Chig said:


> RP costs $1000 and I'm sure there will be more new R models at similar prices


Agreed Chig...but RP is very old {compared to current cameras/features} ...we are sadly missing a upgrade between $1000 - $2000 segment


----------



## Maru (Jun 1, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> I think Canon needs to respond to the Sony ZV-E10.
> It is a huge threat to the EF-M mount cameras.
> It will not dethrone the M50 since it will cost so much less but it is rumored to cost the same as the M6 Mark II.
> As much as I would like to see a new EOS M camera, Canon can respond by simply lowering the price of the existing M6 Mark II.
> ...


yeah i feel we are letting go the junior/mid market {not beginner or senior} ... R6 is never for mid market range


----------



## Maru (Jun 1, 2021)

navastronia said:


> They R and RP are still rolling off assembly lines as I type this.


Yeah but upgrade is required on those two.. specially R


----------



## navastronia (Jun 1, 2021)

Maru said:


> Yeah but upgrade is required on those two.. specially R



I think once every 3-4 years is plenty for any camera line. I expect there will be an upgraded R and/or RP out in 2022.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jun 1, 2021)

AEWest said:


> Maybe Pentax in your future?


I hope not but if Canon and Nikon abandon DSLRs then it will be.
I would rather stick with Canon but that is up to Canon.
I enjoy using DLSRs and find them useful.
Owning several mirrorless cameras as well does not change that.

PS: I also drive a car with a manual transmission.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jun 1, 2021)

AEWest said:


> It's not possible to keep an OVF with RF mount - no room for a mirror.


That is true with current technology but who knows what the future will bring.


----------



## GoldWing (Jun 1, 2021)

AEWest said:


> It's not possible to keep an OVF with RF mount - no room for a mirror.


Exactly.... As I said. There is no EVF in the world equal to and OVF.... which is vital to sports.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jun 2, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> Exactly.... As I said. There is no EVF in the world equal to and OVF.... which is vital to sports.


I’m seeing more and more pro sports shooters using EVF’s, so it clearly isn’t “vital to sports”.


----------



## GoldWing (Jun 2, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> I’m seeing more and more pro sports shooters using EVF’s, so it clearly isn’t “vital to sports”.


More and More? Not one! As in zero. Not at our "agency" or those we compete with. As for "Press"... we see kids and adults sent from locals that show up with cell phones, P&S and assorted low-budget kits and their work product reflects their exp and equipment. You get what you pay for on both sides of the lens.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jun 2, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> More and More? Not one! As in zero. Not at our "agency" or those we compete with. As for "Press"... we see kids and adults sent from locals that show up with cell phones, P&S and assorted low-budget kits and their work product reflects their exp and equipment. You get what you pay for on both sides of the lens.


And yet some situations clearly favor MILC’s, golf backswings and tennis are two I personally know where true silent shutters that MILC’s enable shots DSLR users cannot get.


----------



## AEWest (Jun 2, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> Exactly.... As I said. There is no EVF in the world equal to and OVF.... which is vital to sports.


The R1 won't have an OVF either. EVFs are getting better and better every year, and do have some advantages over OVF such as viewing in near darkness, etc.


----------



## AEWest (Jun 2, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> More and More? Not one! As in zero. Not at our "agency" or those we compete with. As for "Press"... we see kids and adults sent from locals that show up with cell phones, P&S and assorted low-budget kits and their work product reflects their exp and equipment. You get what you pay for on both sides of the lens.


That is primarily due to no pro level MILCs available until this year. Once the R3 and Z9 come out, I suspect you will see many of them on the sidelines before too long.


----------



## GoldWing (Jun 2, 2021)

AEWest said:


> The R1 won't have an OVF either. EVFs are getting better and better every year, and do have some advantages over OVF such as viewing in near darkness, etc.


When they get better than an OVF, you let us know. 

As for shooting in near darkness, which pro sport is that?

Have you seen the noise in an EVF in low light and with no practical reason as the stadiums we shoot in can be seen from space


----------



## GoldWing (Jun 2, 2021)

AEWest said:


> That is primarily due to no pro level MILCs available until this year. Once the R3 and Z9 come out, I suspect you will see many of them on the sidelines before too long.


If it helps Canon refine thr R1, Im all for it


----------



## AEWest (Jun 2, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> When they get better than an OVF, you let us know.
> 
> As for shooting in near darkness, which pro sport is that?
> 
> Have you seen the noise in an EVF in low light and with no practical reason as the stadiums we shoot in can bee seen from space


24 hours of Le Mans, other endurance racing.


----------



## GoldWing (Jun 2, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> And yet some situations clearly favor MILC’s, golf backswings and tennis are two I personally know where true silent shutters that MILC’s enable shots DSLR users cannot get.


For Tennis we are positioned next to the CBS suite and on the opposite side. You can't hear our cameras on court.

As for golf we get every Augusta shot and the reason the shots are so beautiful and crushed is we're using 400mm 600 200-400 and even 800's. As of last year, drones. We have prime shooting locations and again.... you can't hear our cameras from those distances


----------



## privatebydesign (Jun 2, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> For Tennis we are positioned next to the CBS suite and on the opposite side. You can't hear our cameras on court.
> 
> As for golf we get every Augusta shot and the reason the shots are so beautiful and crushed is we're using 400mm 600 200-400 and even 800's. As of last year, drones. We have prime shooting locations and again.... you can't hear our cameras from those distances


That’s the point, with modern cameras you don’t need to use a 400 or an 800 to keep far enough away from the action to not disturb it. Some pros are getting shots you can’t because your gear is too noisy unless you are using a dumb blimp and if you are your not using an OVF anyway!


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 2, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> Some would go so far as to say.... remove the video from the IDXMKIII... Utilize the new focus system, double resolution and keep the OVF. A specialized "Stripped Down" camera for sports professionals.
> 
> I would pay $8,000 per copy for this stripped down camera


What would you pay for a flying purple unicorn that farts rainbows? Because Canon will start selling those about 6 months before they launch your "Stripped Down" camera.


----------



## GoldWing (Jun 2, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> That’s the point, with modern cameras you don’t need to use a 400 or an 800 to keep far enough away from the action to not disturb it. Some pros are getting shots you can’t because your gear is too noisy unless you are using a dumb blimp and if you are your not using an OVF anyway!


What are you talking about? These are the best shooting locations. We are with the Networks, Magazines and Newspapers. Were ALL using big whites. It has nothing to do with noise.


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## PBguy (Jun 2, 2021)

In the new teaser Canon mentions a couple of interesting things:

Uses the LP-E19 battery - same as the 1DX Mark III
4K video and 4K oversampled video. No mention of 8k 
Vehicle and motorcycle AF detection and improved face, eye, head and body detection among other AF subject detection and tracking improvements. 






Canon U.S.A., Inc. | EOS R3







www.usa.canon.com


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## Chris.Chapterten (Jun 2, 2021)

PBguy said:


> In the new teaser Canon mentions a couple of interesting things:
> 
> Uses the LP-E19 battery - same as the 1DX Mark III
> 4K video and 4K oversampled video. No mention of 8k
> ...


Thanks for the link. I’m sure they would have mentioned 8k if it had it. I was actually hoping it would have similar resolution as the R5, but suspect it will be quite a bit less...


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## leviathan18 (Jun 2, 2021)

my bet is 24mp


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## padam (Jun 2, 2021)

Canon Reveals EOS R3 Mirrorless Camera in Development


Topping its full-frame mirrorless lineup, Canon has just announced the development of the forthcoming EOS R3 mirrorless camera. Canon describes this camera as holding a new position within the EOS R ecosystem, “squarely between the EOS R5 and EOS-1D X Mark III cameras.” More specifically, Canon...




bhpho.to





Additional details on the R3


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## tomislavmoze (Jun 2, 2021)

some new official informations





Canon U.S.A., Inc. | EOS R3







www.usa.canon.com





it seams 4k is the max for the video so I guess less mpx than the r5.


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## R1-7D (Jun 2, 2021)

tomislavmoze said:


> some new official informations
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Not necessarily. Canon is saying 4K HQ. We don’t know what res it’s over sampling from. It’s also possible that Canon is promoting 4K HQ RAW recording currently, which is a feature the R5 does not have.


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## tomislavmoze (Jun 2, 2021)

R1-7D said:


> Not necessarily. Canon is saying 4K HQ. We don’t know what res it’s over sampling from. It’s also possible that Canon is promoting 4K HQ RAW recording currently, which is a feature the R5 does not have.


Considering it will be raw and raw has never been less than the native resolution except when there is a crop I'm sceptical. I hope you are right, but that would also mean that they will introduce some new raw compressions for video.


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## maulanawale (Jun 2, 2021)

I don't think I've seen anyone mention it here, but don't you think the hit of losing the AP deal to Sony must have played a part in the design of their new Pro line of cameras?
If the EVF and ergonomics of the A9 are good enough for the biggest news agency in the US surely that must bear some weight.


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## padam (Jun 2, 2021)

R1-7D said:


> Not necessarily. Canon is saying 4K HQ. We don’t know what res it’s over sampling from. It’s also possible that Canon is promoting 4K HQ RAW recording currently, which is a feature the R5 does not have.


No, it was clearly mentioned separately. 4K HQ or RAW recording modes, which is the full resolution of the sensor. Same codecs they use in the R5 and 1DX III.

My guess is that the megapixel count is somewhere between the R5 and the R6 as the latter is rated for -6.5EV over the -6EV on the R5, suggesting less megapixels being better for low-light AF.


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## tomislavmoze (Jun 2, 2021)

maulanawale said:


> I don't think I've seen anyone mention it here, but don't you think the hit of losing the AP deal to Sony must have played a part in the design of their new Pro line of cameras?
> If the EVF and ergonomics of the A9 are good enough for the biggest news agency in the US surely that must bear some weight.


In that sort of deals it is not only important how good the camera is, but what Sony offered to the agency as a deal. It could mean that its not the best camera but it was probably the best deal.


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## RayValdez360 (Jun 2, 2021)

padam said:


> Canon Reveals EOS R3 Mirrorless Camera in Development
> 
> 
> Topping its full-frame mirrorless lineup, Canon has just announced the development of the forthcoming EOS R3 mirrorless camera. Canon describes this camera as holding a new position within the EOS R ecosystem, “squarely between the EOS R5 and EOS-1D X Mark III cameras.” More specifically, Canon...
> ...


its either 6k or a stacked version of the 1dxiii sensor.


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## maulanawale (Jun 2, 2021)

tomislavmoze said:


> In that sort of deals it is not only important how good the camera is, but what Sony offered to the agency as a deal. It could mean that its not the best camera but it was probably the best deal.



Yes that makes sense. I guess a company the size of Sony can take on making less profit short term but bet on the long run benefit that that kind of marketing would imply. But still, it is a drastic change from DSLR's to mirrorless to impose to all of their staff, so even if the A9's are not the best camera (I sold my Sony gear cause I don't like Sony's ergonomics at all), they still have to be good enough and better than most. More so, it means a paradigm shift in terms of the journalism industry so the fight is now in the mirrorless territory and DSLR's are probably to never return.


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## RayValdez360 (Jun 2, 2021)

RayValdez360 said:


> its either 6k or a stacked version of the 1dxiii sensor.





padam said:


> No, it was clearly mentioned separately. 4K HQ or RAW recording modes, which is the full resolution of the sensor. Same codecs they use in the R5 and 1DX III.
> 
> My guess is that the megapixel count is somewhere between the R5 and the R6 as the latter is rated for -6.5EV over the -6EV on the R5, suggesting less megapixels being better for low-light AF.


might be true but remember this sensor is probably way newer than the r5 so it should benefit from the latest advancement.


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## padam (Jun 2, 2021)

RayValdez360 said:


> might be true but remember this sensor is probably way newer than the r5 so it should benefit from the latest advancement.


But they don't mention 8K. So unless they are trolling, it is probably under the R5.


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## H. Jones (Jun 2, 2021)

Honestly, not a real knock against the camera, but if this ends up being lower resolution than the R5, I'll seriously consider getting a second R5 with a battery grip to replace my 1dx2. 

There's still a lot to be revealed, so I'm not making any decisions yet, and they could easily sell me on the R3 still, but this is more of a statement as to how good the R5 is. No camera upgrade in my life has been more noticeable to me than getting 45 megapixels at 20 fps with a high-speed viewfinder.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jun 2, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> Honestly, not a real knock against the camera, but if this ends up being lower resolution than the R5, I'll seriously consider getting a second R5 with a battery grip to replace my 1dx2.
> 
> There's still a lot to be revealed, so I'm not making any decisions yet, and they could easily sell me on the R3 still, but this is more of a statement as to how good the R5 is. No camera upgrade in my life has been more noticeable to me than getting 45 megapixels at 20 fps with a high-speed viewfinder.


I am pretty sure it will be less than 8K since Canon only lists downsampled 4K and internal RAW.
I am sure it will have external ProRes RAW like the R5 too.
Now the rumors are starting to make a lot more sense.

R3 < 45 MP
R5c = 45 MP
R1 > 45 MP






AF tracking for racing cars and motorbikes – more details of Canon’s EOS R3 revealed – a high-speed, high-performance mirrorless - Canon Press Centre - Canon UK







www.canon.co.uk


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## EOS 4 Life (Jun 2, 2021)

Here is a preview video by Gordon Laing with the camera from practically all angles.


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## maulanawale (Jun 2, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Here is a preview video by Gordon Laing with the camera from practically all angles.


You beat me to it 

Regardless of specs, Canon big bodied cameras sure are the best looking piece of (modern) gear.


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## john1970 (Jun 2, 2021)

Interesting updates. Gordon's review also mentions a mix of SD and CFExpress cards. I would have been thrilled to see a higher MP body with quad pixel AF and dual CFExpress type B slots, but it now definitely appears that those features are being reserved for a 1D Series camera to be released in the future. 

At this stage, I am losing interest in the R3 and might likely wait for the R1. The R3 is basically looking like a lower resolution R5 with higher electronic fps, an integrated vertical grip, and motorsports subject detection. If I do purchase a R3 it would be a complement rather than an upgrade for my R5. 

Frankly, I was hoping for more and my predictions were incorrect. 

Best,

John


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## john1970 (Jun 2, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> Honestly, not a real knock against the camera, but if this ends up being lower resolution than the R5, I'll seriously consider getting a second R5 with a battery grip to replace my 1dx2.
> 
> There's still a lot to be revealed, so I'm not making any decisions yet, and they could easily sell me on the R3 still, but this is more of a statement as to how good the R5 is. No camera upgrade in my life has been more noticeable to me than getting 45 megapixels at 20 fps with a high-speed viewfinder.



Your last sentence "No camera upgrade in my life has been more noticeable to me than getting 45 megapixels at 20 fps with a high-speed viewfinder." very eloquently describes why I enjoy using the R5 so much for wildlife photography. Even with the 12 fps mechanical I find the R5 with 45 MP an amazing camera.


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## lethiferous (Jun 2, 2021)

I figured it wouldn't be high mp since it was a r3 and there's more $ left on the table for a R1. I got an a1 on launch that I've sold off since, but recently grabbed one at 5k flat. Not liking that Canon still wants to segment something like dual cf express cards when the body is going to be 5-6k.


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## john1970 (Jun 2, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> I am pretty sure it will be less than 8K since Canon only lists downsampled 4K and internal RAW.
> I am sure it will have external ProRes RAW like the R5 too.
> Now the rumors are starting to make a lot more sense.
> 
> ...


I am not convinced that Canon will make the R1 a high resolution body either. The R3 appears to be a stacked BSI sensor, with mixed card slots and enhanced DPAF. The R1 could feature 1) a global shutter, 2) identical card slots, and 3) quad pixel AF. Both of these cameras could be lower resolution (i.e. lower than the R5's 45 MP sensor). I am thinking that Canon will make a R5s than will be a high resolution body. Time will tell....


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## fox40phil (Jun 2, 2021)

Why do they not inform us about the MP count?!

I hope its 30MP. But why they shouldn' say it? Or its tooo less? <20?! To be "shame".... thats why they don't tell us?!


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## privatebydesign (Jun 2, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> What are you talking about? These are the best shooting locations. We are with the Networks, Magazines and Newspapers. Were ALL using big whites. It has nothing to do with noise.


So AP don’t shoot sports? They moved to Sony so how are their photographers managing? Do they sneak in DSLR’s for their sports coverage?


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## chasingrealness (Jun 2, 2021)

Oversampled 4K is now called out on the Canon R3 teaser homepage (looks updated) - I suppose that would be possible with a 20mp sensor but I’m hoping they go bigger. Also says now that the R3 is going to use the 1dx battery.


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## privatebydesign (Jun 2, 2021)

I think it is becoming pretty clear that the R3 is to the R1 what the R6 is to the R5. Most of the people in this thread have been hoping the R3 is what the R1 will actually be, yet the R5 basically already does for them.


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## mkamelg (Jun 2, 2021)




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## justaCanonuser (Jun 2, 2021)

padam said:


> That EVF with the eye-control looks massive.


it must be able to look massively into your eye  But indeed it seems to be even bigger than the viewfinder of my old EOS 3.


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## justaCanonuser (Jun 2, 2021)

goldenhusky said:


> Looks beautiful! The tilt and flip out screen is a welcome addition and glad to see the track button from the 1dx3. The price is most likely $6k USD. I was hoping for this to be a $5k camera.


it has definitely a $6k look...


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## justaCanonuser (Jun 2, 2021)

Rocksthaman said:


> Bank account looks at me disappointedly, as it knows what I must do


... that's selling one of your kidneys? On the other hand, a well working kidney is a much more future-oriented investment than a relatively short-lived digital camera


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## justaCanonuser (Jun 2, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> That’s the point, with modern cameras you don’t need to use a 400 or an 800 to keep far enough away from the action to not disturb it. Some pros are getting shots you can’t because your gear is too noisy unless you are using a dumb blimp and if you are your not using an OVF anyway!


Yepp, but if you try to get frame-filling shots with a 35mm lens on a silent EVF camera you may interfere a bit too much with sports action in the field - won't you?  (caution: this is a joke)


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## privatebydesign (Jun 2, 2021)

justaCanonuser said:


> Yepp, but if you try to get frame-filling shots with a 35mm lens on a silent EVF camera you may interfere a bit too much with sports action in the field - won't you?  (caution: this is a joke)


But it isn’t. I know a pro sports shooter who is using a mini tripod and a silent Sony very close to golf pros with remote release very successfully. Goldmember is sounding more and more like dear Harry with his rants, meanwhile others are already doing what he says can’t be done...


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## Maru (Jun 2, 2021)

navastronia said:


> I think once every 3-4 years is plenty for any camera line. I expect there will be an upgraded R and/or RP out in 2022.


Hope so... we need something between $1000 - $2000 and there is nothing on canon now except 6dmkii/eosR...we need an upgrade


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## SteveC (Jun 2, 2021)

justaCanonuser said:


> ... that's selling one of your kidneys? On the other hand, a well working kidney is a much more future-oriented investment than a relatively short-lived digital camera



No, he's looking to sell one of _your_ kidneys. That has no impact on his future.


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## Mikehit (Jun 2, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> As of "now" there is no EVF in the world that offers all the advantages of an OVF for sports in bright light. Bloom, Lag, Color, Noise



Exactly - and yet you pointed out that Sony is stealing Canon's market share even with an EVF. So how important is a OVF in the general scheme of things?




> But if the R1 is not "at least" double the resolution of the 1DXMKIII it will not sell as expected.
> 
> That means that 40MP will not work... As most of you know,,, 40MP is NOT double the resolution. User determined file size from 85MP down to accommodate buffer to a sweet spot of 15fps RAW. Sports photographers know how to change files size......



Well you had better tell all those photographers who bought the 1Dx3 over the 5DIV they were wasting their money, then.



> Telling us "all you need is 20MP" is an insulting and condescending "script" in 2021.... as it was in 2020.


Canon never said that. When the 1Dx3 came out they said that photographers they spoke to found 20MP to be sufficient considering the pro need for rapid transmission of files which meant reduced file size. Personally I think they used that as a fudge - instead of admitting they did not have the technology to bring out a 50MP sensor they knew that 20MP was (and still is) enough for a working pro in a vast majority of circumstances and used that to cover their butts. It is amateurs like me who rely heavily on cropping to get a good composition.




> Some would go so far as to say.... remove the video from the IDXMKIII... Utilize the new focus system, double resolution and keep the OVF. A specialized "Stripped Down" camera for sports professionals.



Right... so given the flak Canon had for the video quality of the 5DIII and 5DIV, and how internet opprobrium (or lack of it) has become a vital part of marketing, they are no going to bring out a top-of-the-range camera with no video at all. I am so glad you are not head of Canon's design team or marketing team. 
Besides, how much do you think video adds to the cost of a camera?




> Improve sealing,


Why? How?


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