# Profoto b1 2 light kit vs elinchrom elb400 2 light kit



## gjones5252 (Aug 21, 2015)

I am looking at these two units. I am really interested in acquiring nice flash heads that are going to last for a while and be useful in many settings. 
I do weddings, events, in the middle of no where photo shoots. 
Nothing in the studio. 
Does anyone own or have any input?


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## pwp (Aug 23, 2015)

Both nice kits, but have a look at PCB Einstein. Having owned and mercilessly punished both Elincrom and Profoto systems, I'd take the Einsteins over either of them any day. My Profotos were at the repair shop more often than I would have liked. As you're primarily working on on location, you need to consider weight. The Einsteins are very light, and mine have passed the three year tough-test flawlessly. I have six Einsteins, VML's, mods etc

http://paulcbuff.com/vagabond.php batteries
http://paulcbuff.com/e640.php Einstein

Not that I have needed it, PCB support is legendary.

-pw


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## CreationHeart (Aug 24, 2015)

gjones5252 said:


> I am looking at these two units. I am really interested in acquiring nice flash heads that are going to last for a while and be useful in many settings.
> I do weddings, events, in the middle of no where photo shoots.
> Nothing in the studio.
> Does anyone own or have any input?


B1 location kit is the best (in many ways) location strobes ever made.


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## gjones5252 (Aug 25, 2015)

AHHH 
I have just got on board after looking at the Einsteins. And i get back on here and see a recommendation for the B1!
haha
Well my biggest concern with the Einsteins is the sole use of Manual mode. However i must admit i hate using Ettl in my 600ex. I feel like i am the odd man out when it come to knowing what is going on. I never get the exposure i want and i find it actually faster(if its not rapidly unfolding series of events) to shoot manual. 

The Einsteins-Stopping power, Power, price, price of modifiers. and i can get a large battery. 
I do think the B1 are good but they are small specific batteries and i have made it a point of buying things that can be used for more than one activity. Vagabond batteries while large are able to carry so many more charges and recycle faster. 
@pwp Can you give me recommendations on some modifiers to purchase as a basic starter kit?
here is what i am looking at so far. OMNI 18-inch Reflector is the one i am thinking of to start. Seems it makes a decent beauty dish and i could use it for sports( i really want to get into that!) I have very basic 42inch umbrellas i can use for now until i exhaust the option i have(aka more $). 


E640	Einstein E640 Studio Flash Unit	$499.95	ea.	2	$999.90	
Submit change qty
then click
VLX/BAG-G*	Vagabond Lithium Extreme Cool Grey w/Free VLXBAG	$399.95	ea.	2	$799.90	
Submit change qty
then click
CC	Cyber Commander	$179.95	ea.	1	$179.95	
Submit change qty
then click
CST	CyberSync Trigger Transmitter	$59.95	ea.	1	$59.95	
Submit change qty
then click
CSXCV	CyberSync Transceiver Module	$29.95	ea.	2	$59.90	
Submit change qty
then click
MAXFT12MMUV	Einstein 12MM Flashtube, UV	$34.95	ea.	1	$34.95	
Submit change qty
then click
OMNI18R	OMNI 18-inch Reflector	$79.95	ea.	2	$159.90	
Submit change qty
then click
PCBBAG	Einstein/Alienbee Single Light Carrying Bag	$12.95	ea.	2	$25.90


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## BeenThere (Aug 25, 2015)

gjones5252 said:


> AHHH
> I have just got on board after looking at the Einsteins. And i get back on here and see a recommendation for the B1!
> haha
> Well my biggest concern with the Einsteins is the sole use of Manual mode. However i must admit i hate using Ettl in my 600ex. I feel like i am the odd man out when it come to knowing what is going on. I never get the exposure i want and i find it actually faster(if its not rapidly unfolding series of events) to shoot manual.
> ...


Looks like your use is primarily outdoor, no studio portraits, is that correct? What about light stands?


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## Pookie (Aug 25, 2015)

I own both... Profoto B1's and the Eli Quadra set before the renaming. I also own 2 Rangers. I use them on location for weddings, onsite corporate work and family portrait sessions. I use the Rangers in studio and occasionally use the Profoto in studio too. Not sure about the others above but I have abused the hell out of my Elis and now putting the B1 to the test of this current wedding season, so far no issues. I've had the Rangers about 6 years, Quadras about 3 and the B1 about 8 months. I really do torture test my gear... on site, beach, desert, California Redwoods, etc... Not sure about what PWP is talking about up there as the B1 are still quite new? My B1's are pretty solid and I like the battery because it is usually high off the ground on a boom or stand so it stays nice and dry. I never use ETTL so that wasn't a big draw for me but YMMV.

Of all of them, I still think the Eli Quadras are the best on site for size and utility. I like Profoto modifiers the best, Elis are good but not as beefy as Profoto. I have modified all my brackets to take the weight off the Eli's though. 

I've used the Buff's and although nice... not a big fan of the color inconsistency between flashes. Also feel like the mods they have are cheaply made and replaced quite a few umbrellas before giving up on them.

Eli Quadras




Profoto B1




Eli mod...


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## gjones5252 (Aug 26, 2015)

BeenThere said:


> Looks like your use is primarily outdoor, no studio portraits, is that correct? What about light stands?



I would like to do more with studio. I have 600ex that work well. But they arent enough light without grouping them together.
I have far to many light stands for not having high quality lights. I bought good ones when i started buying 600ex, even though they were overkill they will now work perfect for this.


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## Halfrack (Aug 26, 2015)

My biggest complaint on the Einsteins is the lack of any handles - as in there is nothing to grab a hold of when adjusting, and I've had a large octobox take a bite out of me because of it.

The HSS of the B1/B2 adds more options if you're looking to balance against the sun, even in manual mode.

Are 2 lights enough, or are you going to want/need to mix in rental stuff later on? If so, the Profoto stuff is just about everywhere.

How many of the 600's do you have? I'd really look at the Phottix Odin + Indra stuff, if for no other reason the ability to leverage your existing speedlights with the studio lights. They're getting into bed with Elinchrom so it'll be fun to see what comes out.


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## pwp (Aug 26, 2015)

gjones5252 said:


> @pwp Can you give me recommendations on some modifiers to purchase as a basic starter kit?
> 
> E640	Einstein E640 Studio Flash Unit	$499.95	ea.	2	$999.90
> Submit change qty
> ...



That's a nice looking cart. The mods you choose will be guided by the sort of locations you work in. FWIW I have two each 86 & 64 inch PLM's with the front diffuser, but they're unlikely to be practical for fast moving location work. They're large and slower to set up. If you're working outdoors, be conscious of the fact that the bigger the mod, the bigger area there is for the wind to catch and send your light towards a smash! I chose light stands that have as wide a footprint as possible for stability. The PCB softboxes can have built on speedrings making them bulky for transport, though quick to set up. I often try to light things so they don't look like they've been lit, and find that a high percentage of indoor locations are suitable for bounce flash. No problem with RAW and complete color control. If your location work is fast moving (eg weddings) there's nothing wrong with umbrellas. Shoot-through, white and silver 45 inch or 60 inch umbrellas are light, instant to assemble, small when packed and inexpensive.

You'll want to add two standard dishes to your list. Go for the 8 inch ones. the PCB grids fit these. The PCB barndoors only fit the 7 inch dishes. _Doh_! So I have both, but day to day, grids are generally more useful.

I bought the Cyber Commander but find I mostly use it in four or six light technical setups. The GUI is one of the worst I have ever seen, but once you get your head around it you'll be fine. It's probably the least important item on your list. I'd leave it off and maybe pick it up at some future date if you see a burning need for it. Good call on the bigger batteries vs the VML's that I have. Spare flash-tube? Yeah why not. Again FWIW in a career spanning decades the only tubes I've ever replaced were on an Elincrom EL500 that I pumped too long and too hard on full-power on a fashion shoot and it blew it's brains out, capacitors and tube. Bang! The other was a Profoto Compact 600 mono which I dropped. Plus a few tubes in 580ex and 580exII pumping them too hard on full power with a gutsy external battery (Quantum Turbo). My own fault in all cases. Newer flashes have heat cutouts to prevent this happening.

Let us know how you go.

-pw


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## DaveNewton (Aug 28, 2015)

I made the decision in the beginning of the summer to go with the B1. It is very expensive but it is so worth the investment. I am a portrait photographer the specializes in high school seniors. I can bring this light with me and shoot in virtually any location and compete with the sun. The Canon transmitter and TTL (including HSS) work beautifully. I often will set-up a pose and fire a shot in TTL with the subject's face filling the frame to establish a base exposure. I then press one little button on the transmitter to go into manual flash mode and lock the last used setting. I can then pull back and include the outdoor scene in the frame with perfect flash exposure on the face. I can do this all in a matter of seconds. No metering or guess work. It makes it possible to work quickly, even when I am by myself with just the senior and a parent. I will also sometimes have mom or dad hold the B1 by the great handle on the back and leave the light stand and sandbag in the car. The weight is not objectionable to most folks and with no cables I know that no one will be tripping over anything. I have made some of my best outdoor portraits ever this past month and my sales reflect that with two wall portraits (20"x30") ordered just last evening; both were lit images and not something that I could have done with a speedlite or Quantum flash I had used in previous years. I have also used the B1 in the studio along side my Speedotrons and Alien Bees. The LED modeling light works great and is completely usable BTW. I have shot entire sessions and only depleted the battery to 50% or so after two hours of use with the modeling lamp on 80% of the time set to proportional output. Outdoors I have yet to use the modeling light. 

The investment is substantial; I purchased the One Light Kit which is a single B1 head, battery and charger in a very nice bag (no shoulder strap though); a Canon Air Remote and a 3ft RFI Softbox Octa with a softgrid and a ProFoto speedring. The whole order was about $3K. Again, think portability, speed and ROI. I am making money with this equipment that would not have been made without it. If you are wondering about compatibility with bodies... I have used the Canon TTL with my 1DMkIV, 1DsMkIII and 5DMkII. 

I should mention that I also have a Lithium Extreme Cool Grey for my AB's. It has yet to leave the studio. I can't imagine porting AB's again (I have done it in the past and with the original Vagabond Battery) The B1 just makes life so much easier! Buff also sells a speedring adapter that allows attachment of ProFoto heads to Buff Collapsable Softboxes. For about $20 I was able to convert a strip box and my giant rectangular softbox for use with the B1. It worked just great on both. 

There is my two cents. I seriously considered the Elinchrom units but decided that the B1 offered more. No regrets. I seldom use two lights outdoors so the one light setup works for me just great. If I really want a second light I can grab the trusty Q-Flash or a AB and VLX but so far I have not done that. Good luck on whatever you decide.

Dave


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## DaveNewton (Aug 28, 2015)

Here is one of the images I produced with the B1 and 3ft Octa. Parents and senior love it!


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## Ozarker (Sep 14, 2015)

Pookie said:


> I own both... Profoto B1's and the Eli Quadra set before the renaming. I also own 2 Rangers. I use them on location for weddings, onsite corporate work and family portrait sessions. I use the Rangers in studio and occasionally use the Profoto in studio too. Not sure about the others above but I have abused the hell out of my Elis and now putting the B1 to the test of this current wedding season, so far no issues. I've had the Rangers about 6 years, Quadras about 3 and the B1 about 8 months. I really do torture test my gear... on site, beach, desert, California Redwoods, etc... Not sure about what PWP is talking about up there as the B1 are still quite new? My B1's are pretty solid and I like the battery because it is usually high off the ground on a boom or stand so it stays nice and dry. I never use ETTL so that wasn't a big draw for me but YMMV.
> 
> Of all of them, I still think the Eli Quadras are the best on site for size and utility. I like Profoto modifiers the best, Elis are good but not as beefy as Profoto. I have modified all my brackets to take the weight off the Eli's though.
> 
> ...



Always great advice!


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## krautland (Sep 21, 2015)

I have the B1 location kit (two strobes). The only downside is that I now want a third. Other than that, the units are rock solid. The batteries last long and charge quickly, nothing wiggles or seems otherwise cheap and 500W is plenty powerful for me. I love the 1/8000th max shutter speed, which I used to shoot bike racers blasting by. Recycle times are good. The only issue with profoto you should know about is that if you want hard light their beauty dishes suck. I am the kind of guy who would never put a sock on a dish and I sometimes find myself putting tinfoil inside the dishes to get that Broncolor dish look. 

But yeah, bottom line: I love the B1 and the backpack it came in. zero issues. Had them for about eight months, so the B2 obviously came out after I made my choice but 250W is not what I desire anyway. 

Question for all the other Canon/Profoto shooters in here: is it possible to trigger the B1 via hotshoe and a 580ex II at the same time via IR?


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## Halfrack (Sep 21, 2015)

krautland said:


> Question for all the other Canon/Profoto shooters in here: is it possible to trigger the B1 via hotshoe and a 580ex II at the same time via IR?



So the 580ex doesn't have an optical slave, but adding one is cheap 
http://flashzebra.com/opticalslaves/index.shtml

If you want TTL or HSS, you're better off adding that 3rd B1, as the Air system doesn't integrate with speedlights.


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## Pookie (Sep 21, 2015)

Halfrack said:


> krautland said:
> 
> 
> > Question for all the other Canon/Profoto shooters in here: is it possible to trigger the B1 via hotshoe and a 580ex II at the same time via IR?
> ...



In manual... I do this all the time with optical triggers. Cheap and with either Eli's or Profoto I can put speedlites in the mix quite easily. Again, I don't use ETTL or HSS that often, If I do I can hookup PW to trigger.


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## krautland (Sep 22, 2015)

Halfrack said:


> krautland said:
> 
> 
> > Question for all the other Canon/Profoto shooters in here: is it possible to trigger the B1 via hotshoe and a 580ex II at the same time via IR?
> ...



intriguing, thank you. the three-light setups I am thinking about would all be shot in manual without TTL or HSS, so that's not a problem. really the reason I ask is that the 580ex II and two B1's are here and ready to go whereas a third B1 would have to be bought.


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## CreationHeart (Sep 30, 2015)

krautland said:


> Halfrack said:
> 
> 
> > krautland said:
> ...



the B1 location kit is really nice. I bought the 1 light only then added a second one and the backpack! Agree I also want a 3rd and 4th one but hope Profoto will come out with different solution other than the low power B2. Problem with the 3rd B1 is its more difficult to transport it since the backpack only fits two. haha.


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## krautland (Nov 1, 2015)

CreationHeart said:


> Problem with the 3rd B1 is its more difficult to transport it since the backpack only fits two. haha.



I can help you there: the logistics manager and production manager rolling suitcases from think tank are very nice for this: 

https://www.thinktankphoto.com/collections/manager-series/products/production-manager-40
https://www.thinktankphoto.com/collections/manager-series/products/logistics-manager-30


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## arthurbikemad (Nov 3, 2015)

Got a ELB400 action kit, very impressed, super light weight for two head system, lots of power, quality of light is supurb, wanted to go profoto but too hard to lug two around in a backpack for me, plus the other gear.


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## CSD (Nov 3, 2015)

One other aspect about Elinchrom with the new HS trigger and head (and some older heads) you can get Hi-Sync speeds up to 1/8000th. It's just been released in the last few weeks. A great feature of this trigger is that you can now see the power ratio's of the newer Skyport lights (Gen 2 or newer) which saves a lot of guesswork as to what each pack or studio light (ELC lights only) is at.

I heavily use the Elinchrom Quadra's; I have a Gen 2 and a Quadra Hybrid for fashion and lifestyle photography and has survived the Scottish weather despite not being water sealed. I also like the modifiers such as the Deep Octa which can give a close look to a beauty dish and is also fast to set up and tear down. I've rarely ever had to change out the batteries on location, even the older one has about 150 shots at full power but I rarely use the A channel so can get far more than that.

When it comes down to Profoto Vs Elinchrom you have to weigh up what modifiers you want to use, what subjects/photography you want to cover and so on. It's always about the eco-system, and if you want to use studio lights rather than packs Elinchrom has the ELC series now.

An example of what I did with the Deep Octa and the Quadra pack:

https://www.flickr.com/photos/csd_images/6093307880/


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## arthurbikemad (Nov 3, 2015)

I am loving the HS (tail end etc etc etc) it works perfectly on my 5D, no need to tweak at all, right up to 8000/s all is good 

Like you say its very quick to setup and in my case easy for me to carry around the pack and a single head, that and my tripod (to mount camera or head if I wish) I am good for a wander around with a single 400ws OCF setup, the heads are very light and simple grid and reflector gives me some flex on a walk round  Very happy with mine, weather wise I did note some electronics can be seen on the PCB of the batteries (Li) so some care would be advised that those don't get wet, I suspect they are part of the charging circuit so perhaps mostly inactive but as all would know water won't do it any good. But yeah as you say the pack is robust.

Oh and btw @CSD those images are brilliant!!!


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## CSD (Nov 3, 2015)

arthurbikemad said:


> Oh and btw @CSD those images are brilliant!!!



Thanks, don't really do much personal work at the moment so it's not being actively updated. I also tend to only update 'experimental' images to Flickr and how I lit it for future reference.


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## arthurbikemad (Nov 3, 2015)

@CSD Well if I need any advice you're sure the person to ask! As I said, your flickr pics are amazing, I don't see how it gets any better!!


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## Pookie (Jan 21, 2016)

Well after almost 2 years with the Profotos and many years with the Elinchroms... I'm selling my 3 light Profoto B1 kit. I've found them to be a little unreliable in the ETTL department, there are some odd quirks with powering set-up and odd inconsistency with lighting at low power. They are nice looking and in a very pretty package but not robust for everyday use in the field. The batteries are pathetically short lived when working at mid-to-high power. Additional batteries are very expensive and you'll need a few if working on site. The other problems I'm having is with customer service, it is atrocious. Any item that need to be replaced or looked at requires the entire unit to be packed up and sent to their customer service in NJ... even if it's just a broken knob. 

I love Profoto mods but same goes for any issues with those units needing a spare part. I've had two 5' Octa where the rods lose their aluminum end pieces. Essentially requiring a new rod only to be told the entire unit need to be sent for fault evaluation and possible replacement. It's a real head scratcher as their units are quite pricey and you would think they would be a little more customer service oriented. 

The biggest reason for selling though is related to my work. I am a working photographer specializing in on-site portraiture (corporate, family, wedding and events). Monobloc lighting is a difficult proposition when on site. The entire unit is heavy and on a light stand or a boom this presents an especially unique problem compared to head/pack units. Any monoblock with a battery attached is a top heavy disaster waiting to happen. You'll need more sand bags and careful assistants just to watch over everything/hold them down. When working with clients there is the additional concern of having these units topple onto your subject. 

Even if you're not interested in Elinchrom I'd go with pack and head. You can use the pack as weight and hang them low on any stand to avoid the top heavy scenarios. I do like the Quadra set as the light is very clean and consistent also. Their new HS trigger is great, not perfect but damn near everything I asked for when I was using PW to trigger my Quadras/Rangers before this new system was available. 

The last straw for me was when I asked my employee's to pack a unit for a shoot... they always choose the Quadras. Why I asked? Well, on a painter pole boom or during set up they all said they were easier to hold/use after a few hours on location. 

So when it was all baked down the decision was easy, real world use trumped all in the end. YMMV but for me this was final outcome. Hope this helps with any decision making if you're considering either of these units.


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## StudentOfLight (Jan 21, 2016)

Pookie said:


> Well after almost 2 years with the Profotos and many years with the Elinchroms... I'm selling my 3 light Profoto B1 kit. I've found them to be a little unreliable in the ETTL department, there are some odd quirks with powering set-up and odd inconsistency with lighting at low power. They are nice looking and in a very pretty package but not robust for everyday use in the field. The batteries are pathetically short lived when working at mid-to-high power. Additional batteries are very expensive and you'll need a few if working on site. The other problems I'm having is with customer service, it is atrocious. Any item that need to be replaced or looked at requires the entire unit to be packed up and sent to their customer service in NJ... even if it's just a broken knob.
> 
> I love Profoto mods but same goes for any issues with those units needing a spare part. I've had two 5' Octa where the rods lose their aluminum end pieces. Essentially requiring a new rod only to be told the entire unit need to be sent for fault evaluation and possible replacement. It's a real head scratcher as their units are quite pricey and you would think they would be a little more customer service oriented.
> 
> ...


Thanks for a very insightful post


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## Pookie (Jan 21, 2016)

StudentOfLight said:


> Thanks for a very insightful post



Thank you... are you planning on purchasing any of these units?


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## Viggo (Jan 22, 2016)

I have had the older Quadra, and never liked them. I'm a hobbyist and don't have assistants and bring my light where my kids play. No hss, the cable/battery pack and flimsy mount just adds up to it staying at home. Oh, and I had to bring the manual to adjust anything as the display is absolutely useless.

I'm in the process of buying a B1, and the fact that it's one simple tube nothing else is just perfect. I already have two ProFoto modifiers that are brilliant! The radio system is also in a different league.

Top heavy, well, I live in a windy place and the battery of the Quadra did not offer the weight needed. I bring and empty bag or a can and fill with sand or water on location and pour it out when I leave, a lot less weight to drag around the woods and slippery rocks along the sea.

Can't decide for you of course, but that's my experience.


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## Pookie (Feb 4, 2016)

Viggo said:


> I have had the older Quadra, and never liked them. I'm a hobbyist and don't have assistants and bring my light where my kids play. No hss, the cable/battery pack and flimsy mount just adds up to it staying at home. Oh, and I had to bring the manual to adjust anything as the display is absolutely useless.
> 
> I'm in the process of buying a B1, and the fact that it's one simple tube nothing else is just perfect. I already have two ProFoto modifiers that are brilliant! The radio system is also in a different league.
> 
> ...



You must have had them quite a while ago as PW made them capable of syncing up to 1/4000 and the new trigger is hands down better than Profoto's current offering. It's HS and goes to 1/8000 easily. As for needing a manual for doing anything, that's probably more of a personal issue than anything else.

Best of luck with the B1's though.


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## Viggo (Feb 4, 2016)

Pookie said:


> Viggo said:
> 
> 
> > I have had the older Quadra, and never liked them. I'm a hobbyist and don't have assistants and bring my light where my kids play. No hss, the cable/battery pack and flimsy mount just adds up to it staying at home. Oh, and I had to bring the manual to adjust anything as the display is absolutely useless.
> ...



Yeah it was a while ago, but many of things I pointed out are still valid though. Before the new transmitter came out, did you mean the Flex system that synced? I have had those and I would rather walk back and forth than ever touching the Flex system again.

What is better with the Elinchrom trigger than the ProFoto? It's an honest question as I haven't followed Elimchrom since I sold mine.

I have the B1 now, and my god it's beautiful to work with, do not regret buying it! Hss is flawless also.


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## winglet (Feb 11, 2016)

Yep, I've had no issues with HSS or ETTL with the B1/B2's. Nor with Profoto mods, although it does seem quality control is slipping a bit over all brands. But that's more about globalization than which name is on the product.

The argument for pack and head has been pretty much negated for me with the B2's. And I love the integration of the whole system. Sometimes a monobloc makes sense, sometimes a separate head. I have both and haven't had any problems. The B2's are the weight of a speedlite and plenty of power for the types of situation where an assistant might be whining about carrying them.

But to each their own, Elinchrom makes some great lights, I've just had exemplary experiences with the B1 and 2's, perhaps the other guy just had bad luck. Happens.


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## dv9161 (Feb 19, 2016)

It wont let me create a new topic for some reason "only reply" so here it goes...

I own a Canon 5D Mk 3 and my go to lens is a Canon 24-70mm L f/4.
I am looking for a ring light like the one below for continuous lighting to fit around my lens but most sellers won't know if it will fit or not. I believe the depth # is 77 I am not sure. I have a budget of $200 to spend and I'm trying to find out which ones will fit. Thanks.

Ring light example image:


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## gjones5252 (Feb 23, 2016)

Thank you to everyone who helped me decide what to purchase after 6 months or so I am ready to share some of what i have done so far. 
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=29177.0
here is the pictures and some of my thoughts. This page started going a different way and i also wanted it to be easier for others doing research to find my results.


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