# Gerald Undone completes exhaustive record time testing on the Canon EOS R5 and Canon EOS R6



## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 1, 2020)

> Gerald Undone, one of the premier camera tech YouTubers has completed an exhaustive record time test on the Canon EOS R5 and Canon EOS R6.
> He hopes to have the full video up on Monday or Tuesday for your viewing pleasure, but for now, he has provided us with a handy chart detailing his methodology, record times in all modes both internally and externally.
> All of these tests were done indoors in a climate-controlled environment.
> As for recovery time, Gerald has this to say:
> ...



Continue reading...


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## Chaitanya (Aug 1, 2020)

Depending on weather, that 4k120 can be really useful for recording behaviour of animals which lasts couple of seconds on another note living in India other than Dec-Jan dont see R5 being a useful tool in field for video above 4k30.


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## Starting out EOS R (Aug 1, 2020)

I'm getting a bit of information overload at the moment with all the vlogs, comments and reviews going on for the R5 & R6.

It's great that people like Gerald Undone do things like this and I'm sure people looking to decide to buy may find it useful. However, in the real world where most people don't use these camera's in temperature controlled environments, only your own experience matters.

I suppose the headline stats along with those provided by Canon give you an initial idea to base a decision on but when all said and done, only you and you alone know what kind of shooting you do, stills, video, stills and video, video at normal or 8k etc etc. so maybe it's time we stop hanging on everyone's review and make our own minds up??

That's certainly what I did and now I have the R5, I'll decide on my own experience.


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## mppix (Aug 1, 2020)

The observed cooldown periods suggest that the heat is not conducted effectively away from the internal hot spots. This can be either by design or due to out-of-spec thermal interfaces.
2h cooldown really seems excessive.... and can likely be improved..


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## sanj (Aug 1, 2020)

Unpleasant. Less than 25 mins indicates an inferior product. To me.


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## adigoks (Aug 1, 2020)

canon user should be thankful there is someone like gerald undone. he did such a worthy and full of information test.

this also conclude that canon is very conservative in term of their camera operation temparature .


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## padam (Aug 1, 2020)

These figures all seem fine to me (4K normal quality is probably good enough for many already), especially with the external recorder.
It is the cooldown period, which is the real problem, maybe they can make tweak that a little bit with software.

If that Tilta cooling kit or something like that actually works in practise (even though it looks quite ridiculous and probably quite loud when it works) they might sell quite a few of those.

We might not see another 8K camera with a great IBIS, etc. like this any time soon, it is a unique product, no matter how flawed it is being presumed, people expected it to cost a lot more initially (and I expected the rolling shutter to be much worse than it is, although curious to see the measurements).


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## mb66energy (Aug 1, 2020)

Would be helpful to see some data of other cameras with same frame rates, resolutions, data rates ...


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## sulla (Aug 1, 2020)

R5: no overheating in [email protected] (external recording) looks pretty damn good to me. 19 mins 8K in one take also seems not tooo bad to me.

I wonder if the camera lay flat on a table with no convection from underneath or if it was mounted "free" on a tripod. Also, Canon recommends an external fan during recording, that might also greatly improve cooling.


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## NiktoCan (Aug 1, 2020)

Just received my EOS R5 this morning - plan on doing extensive testing as well and will share any results that differ too much from these.


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## Viggo (Aug 1, 2020)

I own a FullHD tv from 2012, it was a $2500 top of the line 55” from Samsung.
I last night finished my binge watching the Netflix series “DARK”, which is amazing btw, and I sat there through 3 seasons completely amazed by how ridiculously sharp and detailed the video quality is. It’s not “pretty decent for an old tv” or “fine for 1080”, it’s amazingly detailed and sharp.

I always drop by the stores to see what’s new in 4K and 8K and the only amazing new thing is how detailed the 8K is at a viewing distance of 10 cm. I can’t see the need for 4K and 8K. Yes cropping bla bla, but output? I rather have superb 1080 than iPhone 4K.


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## Tom W (Aug 1, 2020)

Is it the sensor that heats up, or a processor that is doing it? The sensor, since it has movement to deal with IBIS, would be difficult to cool other than by the air around it. Mounting it solidly to the magnesium frame would cool it, but it would then be unable to move for stabilization. 

The processor, on the other hand, could use part of the magnesium housing as a heat sink if designed as such, even if the heat transfer is through a conductive heat sink type of thing. If the heat is adequately transferred to the back or bottom of the camera body, then some type of external cooling would be effective.


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## FS670ES (Aug 1, 2020)

Damn, I was ready to get R6 but I canceled my preorder. If it builds up heat even during stills shooting and recovery times are so high then sorry but I don't see it to work in hybrid shooting stills / video (50%/50%) in temperature of about 30 Celsius degrees. I am talking about amateur use, short periods of hybrid usage for 2-3 hour walks. It's a real pity as everything else in R6 is almost perfect.


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## sulla (Aug 1, 2020)

FS670ES said:


> If it builds up heat even during stills shooting


Why should it heat up in stills shooting?


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## FS670ES (Aug 1, 2020)

sulla said:


> Why should it heat up in stills shooting?


Already seen couple of reports. Even Gerald mentions that only setting up camera for shoot and then pressing record...the times where already lower.


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## KrisK (Aug 1, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> I'm getting a bit of information overload at the moment with all the vlogs, comments and reviews going on for the R5 & R6.
> 
> It's great that people like Gerald Undone do things like this and I'm sure people looking to decide to buy may find it useful. However, in the real world where most people don't use these camera's in temperature controlled environments, only your own experience matters.
> 
> ...



There's a difference between data and information. Gerald, etc., have a habit of tweeting realtime observations, thereby stimulating all sorts of speculation about what it may or may not mean. I guess that's how he makes money (?), but all this unprocessed data simply serves as noise around these releases.

Doesn't anyone wait until all the information is in, and THEN publish a comprehensive review?


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## LensFungus (Aug 1, 2020)

Viggo said:


> I own a FullHD tv from 2012, it was a $2500 top of the line 55” from Samsung.
> I last night finished my binge watching the Netflix series “DARK”, which is amazing btw, and I sat there through 3 seasons completely amazed by how ridiculously sharp and detailed the video quality is. It’s not “pretty decent for an old tv” or “fine for 1080”, it’s amazingly detailed and sharp.
> 
> I always drop by the stores to see what’s new in 4K and 8K and the only amazing new thing is how detailed the 8K is at a viewing distance of 10 cm. I can’t see the need for 4K and 8K. Yes cropping bla bla, but output? I rather have superb 1080 than iPhone 4K.


Dark: 
I don't wanna see Adam's skin in 8k.


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## Twinix (Aug 1, 2020)

The R6 will not work for me as a hybrid, as it seems to be to unreliable with how much I can record after shooting stills or video for 15mins, stills, video, then suddenly as a b cam for interviews (so 30mins for example). My non weatherproof camera has not failed yet even though it has rained on it several times, so weaker weather sealing is fine as heat problem gets fixed for me.


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## stevensteven (Aug 1, 2020)

Do these numbers represent shooting limits while the camera is rolling only, or does it also include idle time ? If its rolling only, perfectly fine for me...


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## privatebydesign (Aug 1, 2020)

One thing of context that I have only seen written once. Even when the camera stops recording in the limited modes, 8k, 4k120 etc,* it will still work as a stills and video camera for any other mode, instantly.* This is not the behavior all other hybrids exhibit, once they ‘overheat’ they are bricks. The Canon NEVER bricks even when it won’t record in the limited modes anymore.


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## SteveC (Aug 1, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> One thing of context that I have only seen written once. Even when the camera stops recording in the limited modes, 8k, 4k120 etc,* it will still work as a stills and video camera for any other mode, instantly.* This is not the behavior all other hybrids exhibit, once they ‘overheat’ they are bricks. The Canon NEVER bricks even when it won’t record in the limited modes anymore.



Yes that's what someone who had a very detailed test procedure noted. You can record (for instance) 1080p all day...even after the camera has 'overheated' shooting 8K.

(That suggests to me that the heat limits the camera follows are very conservative.)


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## marathonman (Aug 1, 2020)

KrisK said:


> Doesn't anyone wait until all the information is in, and THEN publish a comprehensive review?



This is a Wendys Sir.


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## sanj (Aug 1, 2020)

I have no jobs currently. But if I got a decent job, I would overcome this issue by getting two cameras. Not ideal, but it will help. Can always sell 2nd camera after filming completes. 
Or even 3 cameras depending upon the nature of the shoot.


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## dak3 (Aug 1, 2020)

So, I gather that Canon is going to realize that they made R&D mistakes with the R5 to meet their market deadlines and work to create the R4 for 2022 where the body (hopefully) has a better heat sink, chip design, and redesigned body ergonomics so that we can then spend another $4k on a non toy model? Something tells me that Nikon may come in for the steal with their Z8 and Z9 models. After all, in the mirrorless market, there is a competition against Sony now that Canon and Nikon are abandoning their DSLRs for EVF models.

Nikon's Z8/Z9 response to the Canon R5/R6:


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## Darrell Cadieux (Aug 1, 2020)

FS670ES said:


> Already seen couple of reports. Even Gerald mentions that only setting up camera for shoot and then pressing record...the times where already lower.


This is what worries me. I am a photographer and don't care about video. I've been a Canon shooter since 1969 and really wanted a Canon stills camera with face/eye AF, IBIS and high resolution. Was going to by an R5 as this would have answered my dreams...I shall now wait to see what comes out from actual documented testing from using it as a camera...not a video recorder.


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## Fast351 (Aug 1, 2020)

Viggo said:


> I own a FullHD tv from 2012, it was a $2500 top of the line 55” from Samsung.
> I last night finished my binge watching the Netflix series “DARK”, which is amazing btw, and I sat there through 3 seasons completely amazed by how ridiculously sharp and detailed the video quality is. It’s not “pretty decent for an old tv” or “fine for 1080”, it’s amazingly detailed and sharp.
> 
> I always drop by the stores to see what’s new in 4K and 8K and the only amazing new thing is how detailed the 8K is at a viewing distance of 10 cm. I can’t see the need for 4K and 8K. Yes cropping bla bla, but output? I rather have superb 1080 than iPhone 4K.



I always find this chart handy when people are "my 4K is so much better than full HD"

with a 55" you need to be closer than 6 feet. 65" closer than 8'. Historically most people watch TV at 10-12', regardless of screen size. You need an 80+" TV at those distances before 4K becomes a visible benefit. 

I think most people think their 4K TVs look better because the technology has improved, not necessarily the resolution.


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## Starting out EOS R (Aug 1, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> One thing of context that I have only seen written once. Even when the camera stops recording in the limited modes, 8k, 4k120 etc,* it will still work as a stills and video camera for any other mode, instantly.* This is not the behavior all other hybrids exhibit, once they ‘overheat’ they are bricks. The Canon NEVER bricks even when it won’t record in the limited modes anymore.


This is the confusing part of all this, if it has overheated then surely the internals including the cards, sensor etc etc will be dangerously hot, too hot to work at all?? This does make me wonder if the warnings and shut down are triggered by a timer and not an actual temperature sensor? As some reviews have said, the warning has come up but the card and battery are only warm, not hot. This wouldn't happen if the camera was actually overheating?


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## SteveC (Aug 1, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> This is the confusing part of all this, if it has overheated then surely the internals including the cards, sensor etc etc will be dangerously hot, too hot to work at all?? This does make me wonder if the warnings and shut down are triggered by a timer and not an actual temperature sensor? As some reviews have said, the warning has come up but the card and battery are only warm, not hot. This wouldn't happen if the camera was actually overheating?



It could be that the warning kicks in just before they become too hot. Switch to some activity/mode that generates heat less quickly than it bleeds off, and you're still fine. The camera, "realizing" it's going to cool off in that mode, won't complain about it; things are tolerable, and going to get better, rather than tolerable, and about to get worse-than-tolerable.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 1, 2020)

Fast351 said:


> I always find this chart handy when people are "my 4K is so much better than full HD"
> 
> with a 55" you need to be closer than 6 feet. 65" closer than 8'. Historically most people watch TV at 10-12', regardless of screen size. You need an 80+" TV at those distances before 4K becomes a visible benefit.
> 
> I think most people think their 4K TVs look better because the technology has improved, not necessarily the resolution.


I hate charts like that especially when they give no context. I personally have very poor acuity but well above average color definition in my eyesight, but depending on the scene being played I can absolutely tell the difference between 1080 and 4K well outside that bottom purple line. My main home screen is a 70” and I have two seating positions, one puts my viewing distance at 8’ which is marginal benefit over 1080 in your chart the other at 15’ puts me on the limits between 720 and 1080, which is farcical. From both positions it is easy to notice an improved picture in 4K over 1080. I regularly stream content at both resolutions from a home server, basically if it isn’t 1080 I won’t play it but I’d much rather find a 4K copy of anything I’d be inclined to watch more than once.

But this is the same argument we have regularly about reducing higher resolution files down to retain more detail, and this is proven, even currently look at the downsampled 8k to 4K from the R5 and you will see that compared to other high quality native 4K it retains more detail, your argument is this can’t be true, but it is, just look at the video! And that is when viewed over the internet at even lower resolutions!


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## YeTi73 (Aug 1, 2020)

Fast351 said:


> I always find this chart handy when people are "my 4K is so much better than full HD"
> 
> with a 55" you need to be closer than 6 feet. 65" closer than 8'. Historically most people watch TV at 10-12', regardless of screen size. You need an 80+" TV at those distances before 4K becomes a visible benefit.
> 
> I think most people think their 4K TVs look better because the technology has improved, not necessarily the resolution.


Thanks for the info.
Some people buy a new TV for console like Ps5/xbox or use it as a monitor. I agree, full HD is good enough for movies whereas if you chose 4K OLED there're still some gain, ie. pure black...modern TV also has an internal media player, which you can use to replay your 4K footage, that's handy. and energy efficiency...some sort of convincing myself, cause it will coming the day after tomorrow..


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## BakaBokeh (Aug 1, 2020)

Darrell Cadieux said:


> This is what worries me. I am a photographer and don't care about video. I've been a Canon shooter since 1969 and really wanted a Canon stills camera with face/eye AF, IBIS and high resolution. Was going to by an R5 as this would have answered my dreams...I shall now wait to see what comes out from actual documented testing from using it as a camera...not a video recorder.


For you I wouldn't worry. This seems to be the perfect mirrorless _stills _camera. As long as you have battery life and card space, it will still take photos. The overheat condition only throttles the camera in high quality/bitrate video modes.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 1, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> One thing of context that I have only seen written once. Even when the camera stops recording in the limited modes, 8k, 4k120 etc,* it will still work as a stills and video camera for any other mode, instantly.* This is not the behavior all other hybrids exhibit, once they ‘overheat’ they are bricks. The Canon NEVER bricks even when it won’t record in the limited modes anymore.


I wasn't aware of that. But, when a sensor is hot, the IQ drops. Maybe its not the sensor but the internal video processing electronics that gets hot in overdrive, probably its everything that gets hot.

The life for 8K seems to be 19 minutes more than my requirements, so I don't see a worry.


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## Stig Nygaard (Aug 1, 2020)

To me those numbers are pretty impressive. I mean, people didn't believe it was possible to do "real" 8K video in a consumer stills camera/body when first rumors emerged, saying it must be timelapse video, motion jpeg or upscaled video. And if it was really "true" 8K, it would overheat after 2 minuttes. The internet is just hysterical.


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## Fast351 (Aug 1, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> I hate charts like that especially when they give no context. I personally have very poor acuity but well above average color definition in my eyesight, but depending on the scene being played I can absolutely tell the difference between 1080 and 4K well outside that bottom purple line. My main home screen is a 70” and I have two seating positions, one puts my viewing distance at 8’ which is marginal benefit over 1080 in your chart the other at 15’ puts me on the limits between 720 and 1080, which is farcical. From both positions it is easy to notice an improved picture in 4K over 1080. I regularly stream content at both resolutions from a home server, basically if it isn’t 1080 I won’t play it but I’d much rather find a 4K copy of anything I’d be inclined to watch more than once.
> 
> But this is the same argument we have regularly about reducing higher resolution files down to retain more detail, and this is proven, even currently look at the downsampled 8k to 4K from the R5 and you will see that compared to other high quality native 4K it retains more detail, your argument is this can’t be true, but it is, just look at the video! And that is when viewed over the internet at even lower resolutions!



I realize this chart is a generalization, but please remember it's purely resolution only. Most 4K source material takes advantage of more than resolution. It might have an HDR signal, which will definitely look better far beyond the resolution cutoff. 10 bit vs 8 bit is another huge delta. 

That's why I added the caviat that 4K looks better because of the technology, not necessarily the resolution.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 1, 2020)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I wasn't aware of that. But, when a sensor is hot, the IQ drops. Maybe its not the sensor but the internal video processing electronics that gets hot in overdrive, probably its everything that gets hot.
> 
> The life for 8K seems to be 19 minutes more than my requirements, so I don't see a worry.


I think Canon have taken their normal conservative path and 1, are doing it with some internal sensor or counter to protect something deep inside, 2, they set these limits knowing them and expecting most user case use to be within those limits.

What they didn’t anticipate is the feeding frenzy the ‘influencers’ had with their atypical case use, I suspect the PR departments will look very carefully at where they pitch demo units in future, there are several photographers I am interested in hearing feedback from that so far have only been able to get test R6 units.

Further to the first point, I believe a comparatively simple firmware upgrade that changed the temperature/timer/sensor value to the overheat trigger would yield longer run times for the limited modes but who knows if Canon would be comfortable doing that. That will be a beancounter calculation for how many units will fail if they lengthen the time as most owners won’t use it anyway over short term PR cost....


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## privatebydesign (Aug 1, 2020)

Fast351 said:


> I realize this chart is a generalization, but please remember it's purely resolution only. Most 4K source material takes advantage of more than resolution. It might have an HDR signal, which will definitely look better far beyond the resolution cutoff. 10 bit vs 8 bit is another huge delta.
> 
> That's why I added the caviat that 4K looks better because of the technology, not necessarily the resolution.


I understand that, and my particular TV doesn’t have HDR, my point was if you put up a chart with lines on it people are going to draw conclusions from it that can be completely inaccurate.

Given your chart how can the 4K downsampled from 8k video from the R5 have more detail than the one to one readout from the α7S III? Yet it very clearly does. It simply is not as simple as that and presenting charts with a cutoff line is just disingenuous. Same with diffraction limits, charts tell us we will get no more detail from higher resolutions above x aperture value, but it turns out in practice we do, not much, but it isn’t a straight cutoff line.


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## BakaBokeh (Aug 1, 2020)

I understand, YouTube is a great platform to be heard, which is why the overheating and cooldown issue is having a spotlight shone on it. But how many in the real world market would pony up for a video oriented mirrorless camera ala the A7SIII?

How many of you would buy a Canon EOSR5*C*?

It would compromise weather sealing
Have vents and a silent fan
Full Size HDMI 2.1
Delete 29 min 59 second time limit for essentially unlimited recording in all codecs, framerates & bitrates
Same photo capabilities as R5
Probably cost $4399
Maybe it could add a few extras like Built in ND filters, Shutter Angle Priority, Better Audio Preamps, but will not include them for now since the above seems doable for Canon. If it gets all these video extras it's probably a $5K camera at that point.

Would you buy this camera?


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## Deleted member 378221 (Aug 1, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> Would you buy this camera?


In a heartbeat.


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## Bob Howland (Aug 1, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> I understand, YouTube is a great platform to be heard, which is why the overheating and cooldown issue is having a spotlight shone on it. But how many in the real world market would pony up for a video oriented mirrorless camera ala the A7SIII?
> 
> How many of you would buy a Canon EOSR5*C*?
> 
> ...


Yes, and I take very few videos but own a closet full of EF lenses.


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## Viggo (Aug 1, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> I understand, YouTube is a great platform to be heard, which is why the overheating and cooldown issue is having a spotlight shone on it. But how many in the real world market would pony up for a video oriented mirrorless camera ala the A7SIII?
> 
> How many of you would buy a Canon EOSR5*C*?
> 
> ...



It would sell in the same numbers the 1dc did to the 1dx, so no wonder they don’t bother..


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## privatebydesign (Aug 1, 2020)

Viggo said:


> It would sell in the same numbers the 1dc did to the 1dx, so no wonder they don’t bother..


I’m not sure, don’t forget the 1DC was $14,999 at launch! An R5C could be made for a fraction of that and there are a lot more video centric shooters out there now. Having said that there is no way Canon would make that camera as it would kill most of the C range.....


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## domo_p1000 (Aug 1, 2020)

This is an interesting comparison:


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## CJudge (Aug 1, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> One thing of context that I have only seen written once. Even when the camera stops recording in the limited modes, 8k, 4k120 etc,* it will still work as a stills and video camera for any other mode, instantly.* This is not the behavior all other hybrids exhibit, once they ‘overheat’ they are bricks. The Canon NEVER bricks even when it won’t record in the limited modes anymore.



This is possibly why the camera goes into "overheat" warning so quickly. It seems conservative, but it means that Canon is prioritising _always_ being able to function in stills and basic video modes.

Unfortunately, the flip side to this conservative heat management approach is that walking around shooting stills or lower resolution video actually eats into your record times for the other modes. So for all the people who feel that the overheating fears are overblown because no-one needs a 40 minute shot of 4K 120p... well by the time you flip into that high frame rate mode, your camera might already be too warm to even give you 2 minutes. And then you'll need to power off the camera for half an hour before you can shoot another 5 minutes.

Without changing the physical thermal management in the camera, I think Canon is stuck between a rock and a hard place. Either risk bricking the camera for all functions once heat builds up to a higher threshold, or keep things as they are now, with very limited record times for hybrid shooters.


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## davidhfe (Aug 1, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> I understand, YouTube is a great platform to be heard, which is why the overheating and cooldown issue is having a spotlight shone on it. But how many in the real world market would pony up for a video oriented mirrorless camera ala the A7SIII?
> 
> How many of you would buy a Canon EOSR5*C*?
> 
> ...



I am really, really curious what Canon's answer to the A7SIII is. In the past it's been "Buy a CX00" but I just don't think that's going to be a valid strategy over time. I think a more expensive R5c, actively cooled with a larger body, north of $4K would be really compelling. I wouldn't buy this camera, but I would absolutely rent it when needed. 

The problem is, I'm not sure that's the right approach. A really nice 20/24mp sensor could still get you a great oversampled image, the ability to do a 5/6K raw, and likely better quality HFR modes. 60 and 120 are just going to be a problem when you're reading twice the data and need to start line skipping. An ideal R5c might be more in that mp range, which makes the R6 a bit of a missed opportunity IMO.

I think Sony's approach to their lineup is just a little easier to wrap my head around. I would love to see what Canon's roadmap for Q4 2021 looks like. Right now it seems like they swung for "video focused mirrorless bodies are unnecessary" and missed.


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## CJudge (Aug 1, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> I am really, really curious what Canon's answer to the A7SIII is. In the past it's been "Buy a CX00" but I just don't think that's going to be a valid strategy over time. I think a more expensive R5c, actively cooled with a larger body, north of $4K would be really compelling. I wouldn't buy this camera, but I would absolutely rent it when needed.
> 
> The problem is, I'm not sure that's the right approach. A really nice 20/24mp sensor could still get you a great oversampled image, the ability to do a 5/6K raw, and likely better quality HFR modes. 60 and 120 are just going to be a problem when you're reading twice the data and need to start line skipping. An ideal R5c might be more in that mp range, which makes the R6 a bit of a missed opportunity IMO.
> 
> I think Sony's approach to their lineup is just a little easier to wrap my head around. I would love to see what Canon's roadmap for Q4 2021 looks like. Right now it seems like they swung for "video focused mirrorless bodies are unnecessary" and missed.



Yeah, the video footage out of the R5 handily beats the R6, which is... strange, to me. The lower resolution sensor seems like it should provide better dynamic range and much better low light, but that's apparently not the case. Canon could have positioned the R5 as the answer to the A7Riv, and the R6 as the answer to the eventual A7iv, keeping the usual answer of "buy our cinema line if you need better video". The A7Siii would keep its place as king of mirrorless video, but with the R6 performing so closely, Canon would be the first choice for any hybrid shooters.

As it stands, it seems like the R6 is more squarely considered to be the option for people who are budget restricted from buying the R5. Oh well. Every camera on the market right now is pretty phenomenal to be honest.


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## analoggrotto (Aug 1, 2020)

Canon should update the R5 with smaller microprocessor fab size for the Digic X, leave everything the same and all should be fine after that.


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## mb66energy (Aug 1, 2020)

Fast351 said:


> ...
> 
> I think most people think their 4K TVs look better because the technology has improved, not necessarily the resolution.
> 
> ...



I bought a 4k TV 6 years ago, a 40 inch smaller one and I never regretted it: You do not see any pixels from 2 or 3 m distance while all FullHD TVs do show them. I think that 4k gives a more natural representation just of smaller resolutions like FullHD or HD. Maybe that is some part of the improved "tech" - but I fully support that all the other aspects of tech have improved (except ergonomics, I want a remote with a volume knob and backlit buttons).
It is another thing with beamers who put the R, G and B channel data into ONE pixel (not three subpixels): Here each quantum of resolution helps ... if you not are too far away from the screen.


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## Shakey (Aug 1, 2020)

Personally my solution would be for Canon to build an R5 with ZERO video capabilities. I do not shoot video...again just my personal take on stills/video cameras. Each to their own.


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## genriquez (Aug 1, 2020)

I love Gerald Undone's work but he's not into photography. He pre-ordered 3 of Sony's new A7Siii which is an amazing 12MP video centric 4k camera that costs $3500. Canon should have just sent R5/R6 to hybrid or photography YouTubers. If the R5 was designed primarily for video they should have sent that to him.

He said that 12MP is fine for photography if you know what you are doing which is true but most photographers would never buy a $3500 camera with 12MP.

I hope his review of the R5 is compared to the A7RIV and not the A7Siii


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## Eclipsed (Aug 1, 2020)

dak3 said:


> So, I gather that Canon is going to realize that they made R&D mistakes with the R5 to meet their market deadlines and work to create the R4 for 2022 where the body (hopefully) has a better heat sink, chip design, and redesigned body ergonomics so that we can then spend another $4k on a non toy model? Something tells me that Nikon may come in for the steal with their Z8 and Z9 models. After all, in the mirrorless market, there is a competition against Sony now that Canon and Nikon are abandoning their DSLRs for EVF models.



I’m happy with the R5. I don’t want to add the bulk and weight of heat managementso others can shoot extended 8k. Different model makes sense.


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## LesC (Aug 1, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> One thing of context that I have only seen written once. Even when the camera stops recording in the limited modes, 8k, 4k120 etc,* it will still work as a stills and video camera for any other mode, instantly.* This is not the behavior all other hybrids exhibit, once they ‘overheat’ they are bricks. The Canon NEVER bricks even when it won’t record in the limited modes anymore.



That's good to know as I'm not really interested in the R5's video features. However, it does annoy me that I have to pay extra for video features I don't really need AND that don't appear to work satisfactorily.


----------



## reefroamer (Aug 1, 2020)

To folks who feel the video time (thermal) limitations of R5/R6 are a deal killer, I feel your pain. I’d have felt the same way to learn, for example, that 12fps shooting was limited to 25 shots without AF. But rather than rail against the Canon beast, I’d simply look elsewhere. Or wait for what I need to justify spending $4,000.

I think, and just my 2 cents here, that Canon clearly prioritized the R5 and R6 as stills cameras. The many stills shooters who worried the R5/R6 would sacrifice their needs for amazing video specs were wrong. Now, the video-centric crowd can see that, in fact, it was the exotic video specs that were compromised (time-limited) by Canon's engineering commitment to a small, powerful, weather-sealed stills-first body. 

I don’t consider time limits on video shooting to be defects. They are simply engineered limitations that may or may not work for some. The same applies to still specs. These decisions were all tossed around in Canon development meetings, you can be sure.

I'd also suggest that most of the nearly-unbelievable pre-intro hype for these new cameras did NOT appear to come from Canon, but from social media and rumors, and perhaps, insider leaks. Canon did tout the full-frame 8k capability to a convention of broadcasters a few months back, but I never read it was without limitations. In fact, there was much speculation on this site about probable 8k limitations and for most people it was generally expected In some form. 

In hindsight, Canon PR/marketing could have done a better job of pro-actively dealing with the video overheating limitations during the official launch activities. For example, proudly claiming the advancements but acknowledging limitations that, by design constraints, would not be acceptable in certain applications. Better to crap a little on your own parade rather than be covered by a giant dump from the interweb “Influencers.”

I think these will be superb cameras for many shooters (As will competitor's products). As always, our mileage will vary. I'm happy we have so many great choices for our various needs.


----------



## davidhfe (Aug 1, 2020)

genriquez said:


> I love Gerald Undone's work but he's not into photography. He pre-ordered 3 of Sony's new A7Siii which is an amazing 12MP video centric 4k camera that costs $3500. Canon should have just sent R5/R6 to hybrid or photography YouTubers. If the R5 was designed primarily for video they should have sent that to him.
> 
> He said that 12MP is fine for photography if you know what you are doing which is true but most photographers would never buy a $3500 camera with 12MP.
> 
> I hope his review of the R5 is compared to the A7RIV and not the A7Siii



His point was more like "need a few stills for a social post? The A7SIII is fine." To be honest, you could say the same thing about the R5 "need a quick 4K video while shooting stills? The R5 is fine"

I'm actually not sure I'd want to see his review of the camera as a stills cam. An awful lot of the YouTube reviewers do a quick test of somebody walking towards the camera with AF on, go take a picture of their friend looking out of the railing in a high DR situation, and call it a photography review. That's like me taking an R5 and recording a bunch of rustling leaves out of my window and giving a verdict on it as a video camera. It's sort of why I like Fro's videos—at least he takes them to an assignment, goes and shoots college sports, etc. I want to see adult soccer matches and concert photography. I want to see a food stylist use it tethered and the moire of a wedding dress. That's why I loved Armando's video of the R5 in a production environment. 

Even if that's not what the camera is designed for, he took his expertise (video production) and applied it to the unit. That's what I look for in reviews now that we're past the Northrups spending half an hour talking about electronic shutter banding (WE KNOW) and DPR's test charts.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 1, 2020)

LesC said:


> That's good to know as I'm not really interested in the R5's video features. However, it does annoy me that I have to pay extra for video features I don't really need AND that don't appear to work satisfactorily.


This has been argued to death but the short version is this, whilst the 'video' parts of the camera might add to the cost of the product because the market size is increased and sales volume along with it the amortization of those costs ends up as a net negative for stills shooters. That is, as stills shooters we end up paying less for the stills capable cameras we want because they can also sell that same camera to people with video and hybrid use in mind. Just look at the costly debacle the Nikon Df was to see stills only cameras cost more and don't sell.


----------



## H. Jones (Aug 1, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> This has been argued to death but the short version is this, whilst the 'video' parts of the camera might add to the cost of the product because the market size is increased and sales volume along with it the amortization of those costs ends up as a net negative for stills shooters. That is, as stills shooters we end up paying less for the stills capable cameras we want because they can also sell that same camera to people with video and hybrid use in mind. Just look at the costly debacle the Nikon Df was to see stills only cameras cost more and don't sell.



Totally agree, the DF was bizarre camera.

I'll add to this though and say I think we can at least partially thank the development costs of 8K raw video for the R5 being able to shoot 20 FPS, 45 megapixel images with full DPAF. I'm sure that would have been greatly more difficult for Canon to pull off and justify if they weren't also developing the processing power and autofocus system for that kind of video output.


----------



## davidhfe (Aug 1, 2020)

H. Jones said:


> Totally agree, the DF was bizarre camera.
> 
> I'll add to this though and say I think we can at least partially thank the development costs of 8K raw video for the R5 being able to shoot 20 FPS, 45 megapixel images with full DPAF. I'm sure that would have been greatly more difficult for Canon to pull off and justify if they weren't also developing the processing power and autofocus system for that kind of video output.



Heck, look at the Leica's. You can pay $8K for the and get both no video AND no Bayer filter. A real bargain


----------



## BeenThere (Aug 1, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> Heck, look at the Leica's. You can pay $8K for the and get both no video AND no Bayer filter. A real bargain


But you do get the name badge. Really, what more do you want?


----------



## dcm (Aug 1, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> Heck, look at the Leica's. You can pay $8K for the and get both no video AND no Bayer filter. A real bargain




Less is more!


----------



## mariosk1gr (Aug 1, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> This is the confusing part of all this, if it has overheated then surely the internals including the cards, sensor etc etc will be dangerously hot, too hot to work at all?? This does make me wonder if the warnings and shut down are triggered by a timer and not an actual temperature sensor? As some reviews have said, the warning has come up but the card and battery are only warm, not hot. This wouldn't happen if the camera was actually overheating?


My conclusion to this is simple. Reliability and Canon was for so many years just one thing.. and still is! Canon won't put in danger their camera at any cost... even what we are living since the launch about overheating issues! Canon's 1st Priority with these cameras is the photography world and 2nd the video. Their mistake was that they advertised more the video specs than the stills specs and the "crows" gathered all together to spit poison. Nevertheless R5 and R6 will be bestsellers!


----------



## AEWest (Aug 1, 2020)

Shakey said:


> Personally my solution would be for Canon to build an R5 with ZERO video capabilities. I do not shoot video...again just my personal take on stills/video cameras. Each to their own.


Unfortunately there are not enough stills only photographers left to warrant it. At least that's what Canon believes or they would offer one. 

Also, the resale value of such a camera would likely be low given the small market for it.


----------



## NorskHest (Aug 1, 2020)

sulla said:


> R5: no overheating in [email protected] (external recording) looks pretty damn good to me. 19 mins 8K in one take also seems not tooo bad to me.
> 
> I wonder if the camera lay flat on a table with no convection from underneath or if it was mounted "free" on a tripod. Also, Canon recommends an external fan during recording, that might also greatly improve cooling.


That’s 19 min from a cold body with no foreplay, you take a pic or two and fiddle in the menus that time begins to drop. I got to use an r5 today out at a Motocross event and well it turned off from only doing photos. This was using the ef to rf adapter and a 200mm f2. This was used for over a time period of 2.5-3 hrs and it was 86 degrees out. I’m glad that I didn’t buy it and needless to say my friend who did is pretty disappointed. I love 1d bodies


----------



## NorskHest (Aug 1, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> I understand, YouTube is a great platform to be heard, which is why the overheating and cooldown issue is having a spotlight shone on it. But how many in the real world market would pony up for a video oriented mirrorless camera ala the A7SIII?
> 
> How many of you would buy a Canon EOSR5*C*?
> 
> ...


Yes. Yes I would


----------



## blackcoffee17 (Aug 1, 2020)

AEWest said:


> Unfortunately there are not enough stills only photographers left to warrant it. At least that's what Canon believes or they would offer one.
> 
> Also, the resale value of such a camera would likely be low given the small market for it.



How is offering zero video capabilities better than some, even if not unlimited. That 8K is still useful for short clips or a few minutes, adverts, wildlife shots for frame grab. Same for the 4K120p. Extremely useful for anything where 5-10 minute shots are enough.

The R5 is an almost perfect stills camera, what else would anyone want? Except for smaller price.


----------



## chrisgibbs (Aug 1, 2020)

sulla said:


> Why should it heat up in stills shooting?



The Sony's do, the sensor is running 24/7 when it's turned ON. In fact, this was the first point we made to the DSLR crowd when they complained of MILC's overheating, it's a TINY over clocked video camera, one that simply grabs HQ stills too.


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 1, 2020)

LesC said:


> it does annoy me that I have to pay extra for video features I don't really need AND that don't appear to work satisfactorily.



How do you figure you’re paying extra? R5 barely costs more than 5D4 did at launch without any real video features.

$3499 in 2016 = $3760 in 2020. I paid $3700 for my R5 preorder. It’s a bargain.

Whether or not video works ‘satisfactorily’ depends on who you ask...

But what do I know?


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 1, 2020)

blackcoffee17 said:


> How is offering zero video capabilities better than some, even if not unlimited. That 8K is still useful for short clips or a few minutes, adverts, wildlife shots for frame grab. Same for the 4K120p. Extremely useful for anything where 5-10 minute shots are enough.
> 
> The R5 is an almost perfect stills camera, what else would anyone want? Except for smaller price.



I’ll say it again. This R5 costs little more than the 5D4 did at launch. Roughly $100 more for a camera that is better in every single way.


----------



## Max TT (Aug 2, 2020)

NorskHest said:


> That’s 19 min from a cold body with no foreplay, you take a pic or two and fiddle in the menus that time begins to drop. I got to use an r5 today out at a Motocross event and well it turned off from only doing photos. This was using the ef to rf adapter and a 200mm f2. This was used for over a time period of 2.5-3 hrs and it was 86 degrees out. I’m glad that I didn’t buy it and needless to say my friend who did is pretty disappointed. I love 1d bodies


Wait what? Let me just understand for a second... You didn't shoot any video? Only stills?


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Aug 2, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> How many of you would buy a Canon EOSR5*C*?
> .......
> Would you buy this camera?



No.


----------



## slclick (Aug 2, 2020)

And folx scoff when someone asks for a stills only body in 2020 from Canon


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## chrisgibbs (Aug 2, 2020)

Darrell Cadieux said:


> This is what worries me. I am a photographer and don't care about video. I've been a Canon shooter since 1969 and really wanted a Canon stills camera with face/eye AF, IBIS and high resolution. Was going to by an R5 as this would have answered my dreams...I shall now wait to see what comes out from actual documented testing from using it as a camera...not a video recorder.



Canon marketing screwed the pooch here, they have made some of the finest (sponsored) photojournalist adds on the planet, world class photographers using their kit. Where are these stories today? Canon aren't going to convince any experienced still shooters to drop their DSLR's based on the recommendations of a YouTube Vlogger. 

Sony have cornered the market with Social Media photographers. Why are Canon trying to re-invent that wheel, instead of talking to their VASTLY larger stills pro user base?

This was the last great Canon video advertorial I saw, selling the digital workflow to analogue shooters:


----------



## slclick (Aug 2, 2020)

chrisgibbs said:


> Canon marketing screwed the pooch here, they have made some of the finest (sponsored) photojournalist adds on the planet, world class photographers using their kit. Where are these stories today? Canon aren't going to convince any experienced still shooters to drop their DSLR's based on the recommendations of a YouTube Vlogger.
> 
> Sony have cornered the market with Social Media photographers. Why are Canon trying to re-invent that wheel, instead of talking to their VASTLY larger stills pro user base?
> 
> This was the last great Canon video advertorial I saw, selling the digital workflow to analogue shooters:



Vloggers as influencers is slowly losing traction. With TikTok being banned later today, it will be dying a quicker death.


----------



## chrisgibbs (Aug 2, 2020)

Shakey said:


> Personally my solution would be for Canon to build an R5 with ZERO video capabilities. I do not shoot video...again just my personal take on stills/video cameras. Each to their own.



It should've been marketed like the 5Dll was, emphasis on STILLS CAMERA-- "Meet the R5, your mirrorless 5D, it has IBIS, EyeAF, Animal Face Detect and more........ (it'll even shoot some pretty decent video, if needs must)." 

The 5Dll was a dogs bollock for video work, it was a nightmare. A whole cinematography ecosystem sprung up around it, Zacuto innovated their Z-Finders and all sorts of rigs for it. BUT EVERYONE was thrilled with the 5Dll, as it was never sold as the filmmakers be all end all.

It's all in the marketing approach, Canon under promised, and the camera over delivered with the 5Dll.

I think the CANON R5 is fine, just miss marketed. WHERE ARE THE STILL PHOTOGRAPHERS ACCOUNTS CANON. DOES THIS THING SHOOT FAST AND RESPONSIVELY IN STILLS MODE?

Wouldn't it have been a different story IF we'd have woken up to a barrage of YouTube adds featuring WORLD CLASS STILLS SHOOTERS all singing the R5's praises for being a MASSIVE upgrade over their technologically aging 5D's. "This thing's BRILLIANT, I can actually nail the eyes, EVERY TIME with the old EF 50/1.2, and that lens was a nightmare to focus off the ground glass accurately.............."

We could go on and on here.


----------



## nchoh (Aug 2, 2020)

sanj said:


> Unpleasant. Less than 25 mins indicates an inferior product. To me.



So in conclusion, R5 is a fantastic stills camera, but not so good for video unless you just want to use the it's 8K video for casual use. However, we might soon see an active cooling adapter for the camera that would make it an awesome stills and video camera unmatched by anything out there.


----------



## dtaylor (Aug 2, 2020)

mppix said:


> The observed cooldown periods suggest that the heat is not conducted effectively away from the internal hot spots. This can be either by design or due to out-of-spec thermal interfaces.
> 2h cooldown really seems excessive.... and can likely be improved..



This is *the* problem, along with stills shooting eating into record times. Both caused by insufficient conduction of heat away from hot spots. Those record times are respectable if you can get them (or 80-90% of them) after heavy stills shooting, and if you have more record time (not just 1 or 2m) after a short break.

A 2+ hour break, which for some environments still only restores a few minutes of record time, is unacceptable and a sign of a problem. Who knows if Canon can easily fix it or will. But it's such a let down because these two cameras are so well designed otherwise, and they have the FF 4k IQ that video guys have been begging for.


----------



## dtaylor (Aug 2, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> I understand, YouTube is a great platform to be heard, which is why the overheating and cooldown issue is having a spotlight shone on it. But how many in the real world market would pony up for a video oriented mirrorless camera ala the A7SIII?
> 
> How many of you would buy a Canon EOSR5*C*?
> 
> ...



It would sell like hot cakes (no pun intended).


----------



## dtaylor (Aug 2, 2020)

NorskHest said:


> That’s 19 min from a cold body with no foreplay, you take a pic or two and fiddle in the menus that time begins to drop. I got to use an r5 today out at a Motocross event and well it turned off from only doing photos. This was using the ef to rf adapter and a 200mm f2. This was used for over a time period of 2.5-3 hrs and it was 86 degrees out. I’m glad that I didn’t buy it and needless to say my friend who did is pretty disappointed. I love 1d bodies



*For real?*

This is the PR disaster I mentioned in the other thread in response to stills-only guys saying "I don't care because it doesn't overheat shooting stills." Looking at the fact that stills shooting severely eats into video record time I openly wondered what would happen with R5's in truly hot locations. EVF+DPAF is clearly heating up the camera and it would be foolish to assume that could never, ever be a problem with stills (or LQ 4k30). If people start to experience thermal shutdown shooting stills it will be a PR disaster. Canon will have to address the issue, with a recall and modified hardware if necessary. I've been shooting in so many situations with 90+F and even 100+F weather and my DSLRs have never skipped a beat. A camera which has any risk what-so-ever of thermal shutdown shooting stills is DOA for so many photographers.

I got so excited with this release. I wasn't ready to pre-order but I figured I would add an R5 by year's end. Now? Now I think I should order another 5Ds on eBay before new stock runs out, just to have a spare FF body. Stick with DSLRs for a few more years and if my video itch grows beyond my current gear just add an X-T3 with EF adapter. I don't know how Canon engineering let this one slip by.


----------



## mppix (Aug 2, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> I understand, YouTube is a great platform to be heard, which is why the overheating and cooldown issue is having a spotlight shone on it. But how many in the real world market would pony up for a video oriented mirrorless camera ala the A7SIII?
> 
> How many of you would buy a Canon EOSR5*C*?
> 
> ...



If they could have resolved the overheating/cooldown issues they should have. Such a camera would have remained permanently above S1H prices ($4k). As is, it will have to drop to A7riii/Z7(s) prices in not to distant future (~$3k). Just my 2 cents.


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## Chris.Chapterten (Aug 2, 2020)

Good to see someone has covered the crop modes. Unlimited 4k 24p crop, should have quite good image quality if you can put up with the crop factor


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## jam05 (Aug 2, 2020)

For any extended recording I will simply install a removable Fujipoly thermal pad (0.5mm) with 5v 40m x 40m low profile (10mm) fansink. Either a Radian or Enzotech CPU cooler (5v). The Tiltan kit will be available at the end of the month. I think I can get better numbers with my own external fansink. Thermal pads are removable. Since my recordings will be short I shouldn't need the Peltier device that often.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 2, 2020)

jam05 said:


> For any extended recording I will simply install a removable Fujipoly thermal pad (0.5mm) with 5v 40m x 40m low profile (10mm) fansink. Either a Radian or Enzotech CPU cooler (5v). The Tiltan kit will be available at the end of the month. I think I can get better numbers with my own external fansink. Thermal pads are removable. Since my recordings will be short I shouldn't need the Peltier device that often.


The problem is that you know what you are doing.


----------



## sanj (Aug 2, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> I understand, YouTube is a great platform to be heard, which is why the overheating and cooldown issue is having a spotlight shone on it. But how many in the real world market would pony up for a video oriented mirrorless camera ala the A7SIII?
> 
> How many of you would buy a Canon EOSR5*C*?
> 
> ...


In a heat-beat


----------



## Aregal (Aug 2, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> I'm getting a bit of information overload at the moment with all the vlogs, comments and reviews going on for the R5 & R6.
> 
> It's great that people like Gerald Undone do things like this and I'm sure people looking to decide to buy may find it useful. However, in the real world where most people don't use these camera's in temperature controlled environments, only your own experience matters.
> 
> ...


I agree with you. I got my R5 on Thursday and so far it's been great; no overheating.


----------



## NorskHest (Aug 2, 2020)

Max C said:


> Wait what? Let me just understand for a second... You didn't shoot any video? Only stills?


Yup. Only stills. I think we use two or three batteries.Full disclosure I leaned on the shutter a lot I fired off a few thousand rounds and which by the way I must say that tracking is pretty incredible. Auto shut off was at 1 min. Yes I know it was warm out but doing photos then looking at them and doing photos and looking at them you wouldn’t think that a camera would get so warm that it would shut off from stills.


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 2, 2020)

NorskHest said:


> That’s 19 min from a cold body with no foreplay, you take a pic or two and fiddle in the menus that time begins to drop. I got to use an r5 today out at a Motocross event and well *it turned off from only doing photos. This was using the ef to rf adapter and a 200mm f2. This was used for over a time period of 2.5-3 hrs and it was 86 degrees out.* I’m glad that I didn’t buy it and needless to say my friend who did is pretty disappointed. I love 1d bodies


Whaaaat.... Houston, we have a problem..


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Aug 2, 2020)

NorskHest said:


> Yup. Only stills. I think we use two or three batteries.Full disclosure I leaned on the shutter a lot I fired off a few thousand rounds and which by the way I must say that tracking is pretty incredible. Auto shut off was at 1 min. Yes I know it was warm out but still doing photos looking at them and doing photos and looking at them you wouldn’t think that a camera would get so warm that it would shut off from stills.


Sure..


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 2, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> No what he is saying is he shot lots of still frames for 3 hrs in 86º temp and when he went to use video it gave him 60 seconds of record time in one of the special modes (8K, 4K120, 4K resampled from 8K) before stopping video. If he had wanted to he could have kept shooting lower quality 4K and or stills indefinitely. The lockout only affects the highest resolution video NOT stills or lower resolution video.


Pheeew... all good then... back to BBQ for me..


----------



## David - Sydney (Aug 2, 2020)

Can you externally record the higher videos speeds using the Ethernet grip?


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 2, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Can you externally record the higher videos speeds using the Ethernet grip?


I very much doubt it, the speeds aren't there in regular 1 Gbps Ethernet, and the USB-C 3.1 Gen2 tops out at 10Gbps potential. Meanwhile the HDMI 2.0 is good for 18Gbps.


----------



## NorskHest (Aug 2, 2020)

Max C said:


> Wait what? Let me just understand for a second... You didn't shoot any video? Only stills?


Yup. Only stills. 


dtaylor said:


> *For real?*
> 
> This is the PR disaster I mentioned in the other thread in response to stills-only guys saying "I don't care because it doesn't overheat shooting stills." Looking at the fact that stills shooting severely eats into video record time I openly wondered what would happen with R5's in truly hot locations. EVF+DPAF is clearly heating up the camera and it would be foolish to assume that could never, ever be a problem with stills (or LQ 4k30). If people start to experience thermal shutdown shooting stills it will be a PR disaster. Canon will have to address the issue, with a recall and modified hardware if necessary. I've been shooting in so many situations with 90+F and even 100+F weather and my DSLRs have never skipped a beat. A camera which has any risk what-so-ever of thermal shutdown shooting stills is DOA for so many photographers.
> 
> I got so excited with this release. I wasn't ready to pre-order but I figured I would add an R5 by year's end. Now? Now I think I should order another 5Ds on eBay before new stock runs out, just to have a spare FF body. Stick with DSLRs for a few more years and if my video itch grows beyond my current gear just add an X-T3 with EF adapter. I don't know how Canon engineering let this one slip by.


For real! So after using this R5 I ordered a 1dxmkiii, I’m not sure if I’ll keep it but I am excited to try it out against my 1 dc and 1dxii. Sony is crushing the mirrorless game but canon is not. I hope this changes and I will probably get a a7siii as well. The r5 is pretty rad. Although i like how the 5d and 1d series feels in my hand compared to the new bodies.


----------



## NorskHest (Aug 2, 2020)

Ramage said:


> Sure..


?


----------



## Osama (Aug 2, 2020)




----------



## vjlex (Aug 2, 2020)

NorskHest said:


> I leaned on the shutter a lot I fired off a few thousand rounds


That's pretty pertinent context to leave out in the original post, don't you think?



NorskHest said:


> I know it was warm out but doing photos then looking at them and doing photos and looking at them you wouldn’t think that a camera would get so warm that it would shut off from stills.


Yes. Yes I would think that.


----------



## vjlex (Aug 2, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> How do you figure you’re paying extra? R5 barely costs more than 5D4 did at launch without any real video features.
> 
> $3499 in 2016 = $3760 in 2020. I paid $3700 for my R5 preorder. It’s a bargain.
> 
> ...


Very curious if you don't mind sharing how you're getting a $3700 price. I can't find that price anywhere.


----------



## slclick (Aug 2, 2020)

You would think video shooters have more TMJ, migraines and divorce what with all the pain, anxiety, needs not being met and suffering you go through.


----------



## Max TT (Aug 2, 2020)

NorskHest said:


> Yup. Only stills. I think we use two or three batteries.Full disclosure I leaned on the shutter a lot I fired off a few thousand rounds and which by the way I must say that tracking is pretty incredible. Auto shut off was at 1 min. Yes I know it was warm out but doing photos then looking at them and doing photos and looking at them you wouldn’t think that a camera would get so warm that it would shut off from stills.



Damn... That's bad, it's what some people have feared. I would imagine its because of the temperatures you shot in, but still a camera should be able to continually perform in those conditions. I hope this was just a defective model, I am sure if this is a systemic issue more photographers will come forward in the coming months.



NorskHest said:


> Auto shut off was at 1 min.



Also to clarify, because I think someone else is interpreting this wrongly. And putting words in your mouth.

What did you mean by "auto shut off"
I interpreted that as you had the camera set to go to sleep after 1 minute of inactivity.


----------



## NorskHest (Aug 2, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> No what he is saying is he shot lots of still frames for 3 hrs in 86º temp and when he went to use video it gave him 60 seconds of record time in one of the special modes (8K, 4K120, 4K resampled from 8K) before stopping video. If he had wanted to he could have kept shooting lower quality 4K and or stills indefinitely. The lockout only affects the highest resolution video NOT stills or lower resolution video.


Meaning I don’t power cameras off I set them to shot off at 1 min of being idle. My friend and I only shot still. We didn’t attempt video.


----------



## Max TT (Aug 2, 2020)

slclick said:


> You would think video shooters have more TMJ, migraines and divorce what with all the pain, anxiety, needs not being met and suffering you go through.



Can I sell you a rear derailleur that only works on flat roads? Haha sorry couldn't resist.


----------



## Max TT (Aug 2, 2020)

NorskHest said:


> Meaning I don’t power cameras off I set them to shot off at 1 min of being idle. My friend and I only shot still. We didn’t attempt video.



Ok, that's what I thought. Thanks for clarifying and sharing.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 2, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> Pheeew... all good then... back to BBQ for me..


No looks like I was wrong and misunderstood what was being said.

This is the first and only report I have heard of with the camera shutting down from stills use only and I find it very hard to believe.


----------



## vjlex (Aug 2, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> No looks like I was wrong and misunderstood what was being said.
> 
> This is the first and only report I have heard of with the camera shutting down from stills use only and I find it very hard to believe.


I heard it from another user on the FM forums. He was using a battery from his 90D.
It's early days. I expect to hear these things pop up and am kind of glad for them. The quicker and more detailed and fully-disclosed information we get , the better I would say. The beta tests have begun!


----------



## adigoks (Aug 2, 2020)

NorskHest said:


> Meaning I don’t power cameras off I set them to shot off at 1 min of being idle. My friend and I only shot still. We didn’t attempt video.



how about other settings you use? . like EVF refresh rate or burst mode you use?

maybe you can make a thread in forum and share with us in detail.


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 2, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> No looks like I was wrong and misunderstood what was being said.
> 
> This is the first and only report I have heard of with the camera shutting down from stills use only and I find it very hard to believe.


well.. that's a worry then.. let's see what Canon response would be short to mid term.. .. if any..


----------



## NorskHest (Aug 2, 2020)

Max C said:


> Ok, that's what I thought. Thanks for clarifying and sharing.


I really do hope all this stuff gets sorted cause I think it is a pretty rad product but for professional use in its current state it is not reliable. With the heat today while shooting the heat index was 94 with humidity and the camera was always in hand and the sun was very direct. Now I have never had this with any of my 1d’s or 5 ‘s so it was a real surprise. I know people will call what I experienced bullshit or something but I am a canon fan, I own 2 1dc’s a 1dxii a 5div a c200 a 600 f4 , 400 2.8 and the list goes on. Cameras are tools for my work and I have always purchased canon for reliability and the R5 is not reliable currently


----------



## vjlex (Aug 2, 2020)

NorskHest said:


> I really do hope all this stuff gets sorted cause I think it is a pretty rad product but for professional use in its current state it is not reliable. With the heat today while shooting the heat index was 94 with humidity and the camera was always in hand and the sun was very direct. Now I have never had this with any of my 1d’s or 5 ‘s so it was a real surprise. I know people will call what I experienced bullshit or something but I am a canon fan, I own 2 1dc’s a 1dxii a 5div a c200 a 600 f4 , 400 2.8 and the list goes on. Cameras are tools for my work and I have always purchased canon for reliability and the R5 is not reliable currently


I appreciate your firsthand, on-the-ground insights. And I wish it didn't have to come to people proving their love or fealty to Canon to give us their unfiltered experience. I think we all benefit from real world user feedback like yours. I just think the more details about settings, environment, and usage, the better informed we can be about how this camera really performs.


----------



## NorskHest (Aug 2, 2020)

domo_p1000 said:


> This is an interesting comparison:


With all these people getting different results these tests it does show us that Variables are real and if you shoot in cooler temps you might be fine but if not don’t buy a Sony a7siii or an r5 for video and maybe not even stills


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## NorskHest (Aug 2, 2020)

vjlex said:


> That's pretty pertinent context to leave out in the original post, don't you think?
> 
> Is it though? I get you all want this camera to be your savior or something but getting annoyed at what people have experienced because it challenges what you want to believe and hope for your dream camera is pretty ridiculous. Last weekend it was 97 degrees at a motocross I was doing photos at. I shot for 7 hours and did 5700 photos on my 1dc on one battery did i lean on the shutter to much? Did it overheat? Nope. The world is not perfect and neither is any camera. You life will still be good if the r5 is a bit of a let down currently


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 2, 2020)

Taking around 2500 frames in a matter of 1.5 - 2 hours is absolutely normal indoors or outdoors. hot or cold, humid or dry.. no questions there..


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## vjlex (Aug 2, 2020)

NorskHest said:


> Is it though?


Are you saying it's not?



NorskHest said:


> I get you all want this camera to be your savior or something but getting annoyed at what people have experienced because it challenges what you want to believe and hope for your dream camera is pretty ridiculous. Last weekend it was 97 degrees at a motocross I was doing photos at. I shot for 7 hours and did 5700 photos on my 1dc on one battery did i lean on the shutter to much? Did it overheat? Nope. The world is not perfect and neither is any camera. You life will still be good if the r5 is a bit of a let down currently



Nope, just want good, reliable, well-detailed information with which to assess this camera.


----------



## NorskHest (Aug 2, 2020)

vjlex said:


> I appreciate your firsthand, on-the-ground insights. And I wish it didn't have to come to people proving their love or fealty to Canon to give us their unfiltered experience. I think we all benefit from real world user feedback like yours. I just think the more details about settings, environment, and usage, the better informed we can be about how this camera really performs.


We did dual cars recording using a prograde 256gb uhs2 sd card and a SanDisk 256 cfexpress. It had a peak designs camera strap on the grip. I have big hands and my pinky was on the bottom of the camera most of the time, shutter speeds were mostly around 3200-8000 while shooting wide open at f2. I’m a left eye shooter so my face is alllllll over the back of the camera, while shooting I had the tilty flippy screen was towards the camera unless we were looking at the images.


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## vjlex (Aug 2, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> Taking around 2500 frames in a matter of 1.5 - 2 hours is absolutely normal indoors or outdoors. hot or cold, humid or dry.. no questions there..


I don't really know what normal is with 45 MP RAW files, 12-20FPS, or CFExpress.


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## Max TT (Aug 2, 2020)

NorskHest said:


> With all these people getting different results these tests it does show us that Variables are real and if you shoot in cooler temps you might be fine but if not don’t buy a Sony a7siii or an r5 for video and maybe not even stills



Yup, something is definitely not ok, lets wait and see what the coming months unearth. I really do hope Canon finds a solution for both R6 and R5.

At least I am forced to wait, because I am stuck in a country where the borders are closed due to Covid-19, and aero shipping a camera and lens doesn't workout well for the budget with their 35% import tax and duty on digital cameras.

It doesn't look like restrictions will be lifted any time soon, but as soon as it is, I am on my way to NYC. I am overhauling my APS-C lineup and going FF mirrorless. I am tired of renting the 5dmIV for important jobs. I will have close to $7000 to overhaul by September, so I really do need this R5 and R6 problem to be solved, or I may have to look at other options when the time comes. 

I am not brand loyal at this point, but would rather go with Canon, because the vast majority of the guys I work it shoot Canon as well, so if we are working together its easier to swap and borrow lenses etc in a pinch. Its a big step for me, and a big investment for my career. So this issue has been worrisome.


----------



## drama (Aug 2, 2020)

Good lord I hate the internet sometimes. The R5 is a stills camera that does video in parts. If you need a video camera, buy one or hire one? The entire premise this camera is being judged and found guilty on is flawed - that it needs to be a professional cinema camera and powerful stills camera. If you need a video camera in the shape of a stills camera, I hear Sony make a good one...


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## cornieleous (Aug 2, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> I understand, YouTube is a great platform to be heard, which is why the overheating and cooldown issue is having a spotlight shone on it. But how many in the real world market would pony up for a video oriented mirrorless camera ala the A7SIII?
> 
> How many of you would buy a Canon EOSR5*C*?
> 
> ...




Nope. Not for me. The existing R5 meets my hybrid needs better. I shoot in all weather, and most of my video needs are done in short bursts if it is high frame rate. I already have dedicated video cameras. I want a non-compromised stills camera with video capabilities as the ideal hybrid, and Canon have already provided that. For many of us, we will not be trying to shoot beyond what it was designed to do.

Canon does need to lose the stupid 29:59 limit though, particularly for 1080 and 4K30. That is just dumb to maintain.

You never said what your expectation is for shooting times with all that compromise. Do you think a fan is going to make 4K60/120 and 8K unlimited in hot environments? These MILC bodies are too small for the heat generated and I doubt a proper heat sink and fan can fit anywhere.

You know for just a couple grand more, you could get a cinema camera right? Or just buy a video camera. I feel this constant wish for a compromised hybrid to serve videographers who refuse to buy purpose built equipment silly personally, but to each their own. It is also seems to me the people so emotional about what the camera cannot do, do not have equipment that does any of this today, but they think they _need_ long shooting time of 4K60/120 or 8K. It is almost as if people are just complaining because they are told there are limits, and we all know many people today think they are owed everything for less with no limits. It is a far different mentality than years ago sadly, where people accepted what a camera was designed to do and picked the best tool for their needs instead of all this endless drama and call for change when the only thing really wrong is people are perpetually upset for no rational reason. Canon told us what this camera can do before it could be purchased, and it does it. It's working for me so far.

I might be interested in an updated R5 with longer video times and full size HDMI IF it was in a real body- like the 5D4 size. Mirrorless body size is not as comfortable in the hand. However, by the time I will care about that, the power and thermal profiles of all this technology will be better in a couple years allowing this all in a MILC body again without the fans.


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## NorskHest (Aug 2, 2020)

Max C said:


> Yup, something is definitely not ok, lets wait and see what the coming months unearth. I really do hope Canon finds a solution for both R6 and R5.
> 
> At least I am forced to wait, because I am stuck in a country where the borders are closed due to Covid-19, and aero shipping a camera and lens doesn't workout well for the budget with their 35% import tax and duty on digital cameras.
> 
> ...


I have used the a9ii quite a bit and it works really well with canon glass the a7iv is also good so you could that route, i can send some pics to you tomorrow that i did with a a9ii and my 600 with a 2x converter if you like


----------



## cornieleous (Aug 2, 2020)

drama said:


> Good lord I hate the internet sometimes. The R5 is a stills camera that does video in parts. If you need a video camera, buy one or hire one? The entire premise this camera is being judged and found guilty on is flawed - that it needs to be a professional cinema camera and powerful stills camera. If you need a video camera in the shape of a stills camera, I hear Sony make a good one...



Well said. They will never stop though. People are caught up in emotion and hype. The average person seems incapable of their own nuanced and logical thought process, which is why they give so much time to paid talking heads on youtube. I'm guessing this bashing and trying to change the R5 probably gives them a place to exert force and control in an out of control world these days.

It is pretty clear that the camera performs very well for what it was designed for. I've done my own overheat test and exceeded the record times Canon specified in direct sun and hot ambient air. It will more than cover my needs, and its design point: stills with limited very high quality video, and competent 4k30 and 1080 that you can use to your hearts desire.

I notice that most of the people with the largest issues don't seem to have equipment that can do this today, and their opinions are coming from 100% others reports, not experience. They hate what the cutting edge of hybrids is capable of and blame Canon that their innovation is not enough. They won't just go buy the Sony dedicated video camera either, even though somehow that camera (basically useless for stills) overheats in not much more time and lacks the resolution of the Canon.

Hybrid tools always compromise, which is why there are so many great purpose built tools on the market. We are living at a time when there is unbelievable tool sets for creativity- so many great offerings from so many brands. For anyone who is unhappy with these amazing cameras, I don't think it is the cameras that are broken... maybe it is time to look at who is behind the camera. Find a tool that will work for you and move on.

EDIT: the reports of thermal shutdown after taking fast bursts over and over may mean it is not as good at coolng as a 1DX3, meant for sports and in a giant body, but it also has a high MP sensor and must read out more data per shot. If you just lean on the shutter and go full rate, that buffer is going to run for a long, long time, which is the same as running high frame rate video, especially dual card writing. So no, I am not surprised. Does that make the camera unreliable? Not to me for my uses, I would never shoot thousands of shots in just a couple hours in high rate bursts. It is fair to say it might be unreliable as a dedicated sports camera, just like it is not a dedicated video camera. I think the real problem here is, Canon gave this too much power from the video and sports capable cameras, and now everyone thinks it should do all features as perfectly as purpose built tools for those jobs.

I'd love to see Canon improve things if they can for the R5/6, but I maintain that as the mirrorless 5DV with fast bursts and video supported but not dedicated, this is a great camera for many. I also appreciate all the normal customer reports and non hyped reviews, good or bad experiences, so we can all get the info we need to decide if the camera is for our needs. (Well, I already own it, but for everyone else sake)


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## landon (Aug 2, 2020)

Please Canon. After you've done sorting/reducing the heat issue with:
A) Quick firmware now. So photographers can shoot short HQ burst without excessive cooling time.
B) Battery grip cooling later on, to enable proper HQ4k and 8k?
C) More firmware.
Basically, let the photographers get their hands on them now. 

***Add in 1080 - 120 and 240fps. Even if in crop mode.
***Get rid of time limit for hd, regular 4k and crop 4k. (You need some good will now. This announcement will do that.)


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## SecureGSM (Aug 2, 2020)

vjlex said:


> I don't really know what normal is with 45 MP RAW files, 12-20FPS, or CFExpress.


it's normal for events, concerts, theatre, dance competitions, ballet, sports (indoors / outdoors), as in frames per hour rates..


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## Max TT (Aug 2, 2020)

NorskHest said:


> I have used the a9ii quite a bit and it works really well with canon glass the a7iv is also good so you could that route, i can send some pics to you tomorrow that i did with a a9ii and my 600 with a 2x converter if you like



Did you use the Metabones or MC 11 adapter?
I have been considering the Sony as an alternative, but I do prefer Canon glass. What I heard was that the EF to E mount adapters can be a bit bothersome. 

The guy I rent the 5DmIV from has A7RII, A7III and MC 11 adapters for rent as well. Will have to rent it and give it go with some EF lenses.


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## cornieleous (Aug 2, 2020)

analoggrotto said:


> Canon should update the R5 with smaller microprocessor fab size for the Digic X, leave everything the same and all should be fine after that.



Is this sarcasm?

Fab reduction is likely to reduce power consumption but may put that power in a more dense area. Second, it costs tens of millions minimum to change a foundry for a new fab size. There is also a huge cost to redesign the ASIC.


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## NorskHest (Aug 2, 2020)

Max C said:


> Did you use the Metabones or MC 11 adapter?
> I have been considering the Sony as an alternative, but I do prefer Canon glass. What I heard was that the EF to E mount adapters can be a bit bothersome.
> 
> The guy I rent the 5DmIV from has A7RII, A7III and MC 11 adapters for rent as well. Will have to rent it and give it go with some EF lenses.


MC11 it was impressive,


----------



## landon (Aug 2, 2020)

Also please Canon. R6.
***All-i
***1080 - 240fps (even with heavy crop)
***Option for 4.2.0 or even 8 bit. With UNLIMITED recording in hd and 4k30, even with crop. Let us choose if possible! 
(YOU NEED GOODWILL. MAKE THE ANNOUNCEMENTS NOW, Don't let people wonder)


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## dtaylor (Aug 2, 2020)

NorskHest said:


> For real! So after using this R5 I ordered a 1dxmkiii, I’m not sure if I’ll keep it but I am excited to try it out against my 1 dc and 1dxii. Sony is crushing the mirrorless game but canon is not. I hope this changes and I will probably get a a7siii as well. The r5 is pretty rad. Although i like how the 5d and 1d series feels in my hand compared to the new bodies.



Thank you for the report. Canon is so close to "crushing it" in mirrorless. Look at their glass and imagine the R5 with no thermal issues. We can only hope that a fix is coming.


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## dtaylor (Aug 2, 2020)

vjlex said:


> Yes. Yes I would think that.



I have filled memory cards shooting in sunlight, 90-100F, with Canon DSLRs ranging from the 10D (first) to the 5Ds (current main) with zero thermal issues. I would not think stills shooting would overheat a professional camera, nor would I accept such a situation as normal.

If this is what EVFs bring to the table throw the electronics in a 5D4 body and give me a flappy mirror along with a much larger/denser heat sink. Even video record/recovery times would probably be acceptable then.


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## dtaylor (Aug 2, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> Fab reduction is likely to reduce power consumption but may put that power in a more dense area. Second, it costs tens of millions minimum to change a foundry for a new fab size. There is also a huge cost to redesign the ASIC.



For all those reasons I don't think a die shrink is in the immediate future or a solution. I would love to see the a Lens Rentals tear down though. Is there any kind of heat sink on the DIGIC X? Is there room for one to pipe heat to the body? People complaining that the camera is overheated yet the body feels cool indicates a big thermal management issue. Hopefully one they can solve.


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## Stu_bert (Aug 2, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> I have filled memory cards shooting in sunlight, 90-100F, with Canon DSLRs ranging from the 10D (first) to the 5Ds (current main) with zero thermal issues. I would not think stills shooting would overheat a professional camera, nor would I accept such a situation as normal.
> 
> If this is what EVFs bring to the table throw the electronics in a 5D4 body and give me a flappy mirror along with a much larger/denser heat sink. Even video record/recovery times would probably be acceptable then.


Ah, you perhaps never experienced the 1ds mark iii AF issue in sunlight/heat. I wonder if that made Canon change their body design to withstand the heat better even though it was just the AF impacted. I don’t think they ever truly fixed it in that body - improved it a lot with firmware fixes. I guess it waited for the next generation before it was fully resolved.


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## vjlex (Aug 2, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> I have filled memory cards shooting in sunlight, 90-100F, with Canon DSLRs ranging from the 10D (first) to the 5Ds (current main) with zero thermal issues. I would not think stills shooting would overheat a professional camera, nor would I accept such a situation as normal.
> 
> If this is what EVFs bring to the table throw the electronics in a 5D4 body and give me a flappy mirror along with a much larger/denser heat sink. Even video record/recovery times would probably be acceptable then.


I don't have much experience shooting in burst modes extensively. But 45-60mb files multiplied by 12 to 20 FPS in short order for hours, we're talking between 500mb to 1.2gb A SECOND! That's a lot of data to write. And that isn't even taking into consideration DPRAW or writing dual files to dual cards.I don't know what this camera is fully capable of, but 'a few thousand bursts'- (we're talking hundreds of gigs), no, I'm not surprised that it would overheat doing that in any environment.


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 2, 2020)

vjlex said:


> I don't have much experience shooting in burst modes extensively. But 45-50mb files multiplied by 12 to 20 FPS in short order for hours, we're talking between 500mb to 1gb A SECOND! That's a lot of data to write. And that isn't even taking into consideration DPRAW or writing dual files to dual cards.I don't know what this camera is fully capable of, but 'a few thousand bursts'- (we're talking hundreds of gigs), no, I'm not surprised that it would overheat doing that in any environment.


1. who shoots for hours at 12FPS? typically you would go with shorter bursts of 1-2, max 3 at a time..
2. DPRAW - is not your standard option.. not what you use for every single shot.
3. writing to dual cards - is not an issue. and never have been.
4. 45MB large files is not something extraordinary or new for Canon. : 5Ds, 5dsR, Sony : A7R3, A7R4


+++ no, I'm not surprised that it would overheat doing that in any environment.

A.M.: Understandable.. because of this: "... I don't have much experience shooting in burst modes extensively...."

in reality, though, this is a requirement for indoor / outdoor sports and many other applications.

You cannot afford having a cam shutting down on you in a professional setting.. I hope that overheating of R5 while taking still frames was an isolated occurrence rather than a trend.


----------



## adigoks (Aug 2, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> I have filled memory cards shooting in sunlight, 90-100F, with Canon DSLRs ranging from the 10D (first) to the 5Ds (current main) with zero thermal issues. I would not think stills shooting would overheat a professional camera, nor would I accept such a situation as normal.
> 
> If this is what EVFs bring to the table throw the electronics in a 5D4 body and give me a flappy mirror along with a much larger/denser heat sink. Even video record/recovery times would probably be acceptable then.



yes. i think EVF is one of the major culprit here. mirrorless is all time in live view mode . the camera keep doing image processing, displaying in EVF/monitor, calculating focus,exposure, etc. meanwhile DSLR only calculating focus & exposure while shooting through ovf.
.
R5 is the real test for canon jumping into mirrorlesss world


----------



## drama (Aug 2, 2020)

LOL at all these people stamping their feet at Canon demanding changes to the cameras in the comments on a rumor site. I’m sure they’ll get right on with your wish list once they’ve cleared the seemingly massive preorder backlog for the cameras from people who don’t think like video game fans.


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## landon (Aug 2, 2020)

drama said:


> LOL at all these people stamping their feet at Canon demanding changes to the cameras in the comments on a rumor site. I’m sure they’ll get right on with your wish list once they’ve cleared the seemingly massive preorder backlog for the cameras from people who don’t think like video game fans.


I'm assuming you're responding to me.
A7siii now has flip screen, better menu. Is better in video options. A7iv coming will beat the r6 with flip screen, better menu. What's the reason for enticing ex-Canon users to come back then? Or for people to choose Canon, when Sony offer the same with greater lens choice. None! That's why you need to stem the flow now, in this sleepy pandemic when most people are bored with nothing to do. 
What's the harm in providing more options to anxious users now from switching. Longer recording times for wedding and interview usage. I'm telling you, if Canon wait longer for the R1 to come out to address these issues, when the a7iv comes out, it'll be too late. Why choose/stay with Canon when Sony has a vast lens choice?


----------



## vjlex (Aug 2, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> 1. who shoots for hours at 12FPS? typically you would go with shorter bursts of 1-2, max 3 at a time..


Maybe I misinterpreted what the poster who I replied to meant when he said:


NorskHest said:


> I got to use an r5 today out at a Motocross event and well it turned off from only doing photos. ... *This was used for over a time period of 2.5-3 hrs *and it was 86 degrees out.





NorskHest said:


> I think we use two or three batteries.Full disclosure* I leaned on the shutter a lot I fired off a few thousand rounds*




As for your point 3 and 4:


SecureGSM said:


> 3. writing to dual cards - is not an issue. and never have been.
> 4. 45MB large files is not something extraordinary or new for Canon. : 5Ds, 5dsR, Sony : A7R3, A7R4


I'm not sure if you're being ingenuous or not, but this isn't like any Canon camera that has come before I don't think. Is there another Canon camera that writes 1200mb/sec bursts of data? 5Ds & 5DsR were 5FPS. That's not even close to the same thing.

Look, don't get me wrong here. I'm not trying to say I know what this camera should or shouldn't be capable of. I'm trying to say that _I don't know_. But when people are only giving half the story but a full-throated opinion, that kinda makes it difficult to know exactly what's happening.


----------



## drama (Aug 2, 2020)

landon said:


> I'm assuming you're responding to me.
> A7siii now has flip screen, better menu. Is better in video options. A7iv coming will beat the r6 with flip screen, better menu. What's the reason for enticing ex-Canon users to come back then? Or for people to choose Canon, when Sony offer the same with greater lens choice. None! That's why you need to stem the flow now, in this sleepy pandemic when most people are bored with nothing to do.
> What's the harm in providing more options to anxious users now from switching. Longer recording times for wedding and interview usage. I'm telling you, if Canon wait longer for the R1 to come out to address these issues, when the a7iv comes out, it'll be too late. Why choose/stay with Canon when Sony has a vast lens choice?



...buy a Sony then? Return your new R6 that you didn’t buy, or cancel the preorder you didn’t make, and obsess about that camera instead.


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## degos (Aug 2, 2020)

drama said:


> LOL at all these people stamping their feet at Canon demanding changes to the cameras in the comments on a rumor site. I’m sure they’ll get right on with your wish list once they’ve cleared the seemingly massive preorder backlog for the cameras from people who don’t think like video game fans.



Canon *will* have to start listening if people keep their wallets shut whilst waiting for long-term reviews to emerge. 

Rich amateurs might be rushing to throw their money at the camera, but pros will be waiting for a while due to the technical uncertainty, price and general state of the photography market.


----------



## stevensteven (Aug 2, 2020)

Why is no one talking about the overheat control setting ? It seems to me that it will be a great solution for most of us. 
I plan to shoot most in 4k24HQ. In theory, 30 minutes seems plenty for my personal use. What had me worried was Armando' video showing that the camera overheats even when its not rolling. 
But If I understand correctly, the overheat control will switch your camera to a lower res as soon as you stop rolling, and put it back to high res as soon as you start rolling again ? If that's the case, it should slow down a lot the build up of heat ? 
Another way to get the same effect might be to keep the camera in stills mode, and press record when you're ready to roll, which will switch your camera to the C3 settings... 
Maybe im completely wrong, but it gives me a bit of hope.


----------



## AdmiralFwiffo (Aug 2, 2020)

So wait, what is this "overheat control" in that chart? It reduces display quality? Which display? Seems like it makes a huge difference.

Also, why does 4k crop have shorter times? I was thinking that mode would be interesting with an EF-to-RF speed booster.


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## Chris.Chapterten (Aug 2, 2020)

AdmiralFwiffo said:


> So wait, what is this "overheat control" in that chart? It reduces display quality? Which display? Seems like it makes a huge difference.
> 
> Also, why does 4k crop have shorter times? I was thinking that mode would be interesting with an EF-to-RF speed booster.


Only 4k60 in crop mode has a shorter time because it is oversampled 5.1k. You can use 4k30 crop (oversampled) with no heat limits


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## stevensteven (Aug 2, 2020)

landon said:


> I'm assuming you're responding to me.
> A7siii now has flip screen, better menu. Is better in video options. A7iv coming will beat the r6 with flip screen, better menu. What's the reason for enticing ex-Canon users to come back then? Or for people to choose Canon, when Sony offer the same with greater lens choice. None! That's why you need to stem the flow now, in this sleepy pandemic when most people are bored with nothing to do.
> What's the harm in providing more options to anxious users now from switching. Longer recording times for wedding and interview usage. I'm telling you, if Canon wait longer for the R1 to come out to address these issues, when the a7iv comes out, it'll be too late. Why choose/stay with Canon when Sony has a vast lens choice?


 Greater lens choice ? Highly debatable...


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## stevensteven (Aug 2, 2020)

AdmiralFwiffo said:


> So wait, what is this "overheat control" in that chart? It reduces display quality? Which display? Seems like it makes a huge difference.
> 
> Also, why does 4k crop have shorter times? I was thinking that mode would be interesting with an EF-to-RF speed booster.


 Can anyone tell us more about the overheat control setting and the impact it has during real world use ? Thanks


----------



## landon (Aug 2, 2020)

degos said:


> Canon *will* have to start listening if people keep their wallets shut whilst waiting for long-term reviews to emerge.
> 
> Rich amateurs might be rushing to throw their money at the camera, but pros will be waiting for a while due to the technical uncertainty, price and general state of the photography market.


My point exactly. What's wrong with chasing rich amateurs money as well as pros? Rich amateurs aint gonna wait months when the competition is now. Why not offer unlimited recording in lower modes? Wait until all the wedding videographers and long form amateur recording using Sony, by then?


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## landon (Aug 2, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> Greater lens choice ? Highly debatable...


More affordable options. Although their colors always make people look ill/teal.


----------



## wockawocka (Aug 2, 2020)

padam said:


> These figures all seem fine to me (4K normal quality is probably good enough for many already), especially with the external recorder.
> It is the cooldown period, which is the real problem, maybe they can make tweak that a little bit with software.
> 
> If that Tilta cooling kit or something like that actually works in practise (even though it looks quite ridiculous and probably quite loud when it works) they might sell quite a few of those.
> ...



The boys at DPR claim the R6 is better at 4k than the R5


----------



## YuengLinger (Aug 2, 2020)

This is one of the best threads in ages. Very insightful generally. 

Has anybody looked at the heating effects of IBIS? Does turning it off buy any time? And I wonder how it affects battery life.


----------



## stevensteven (Aug 2, 2020)

For the past five years, I've been shooting with Sony and Canon exclusively. 
My main cameras are the 1DxmkII, and the A7iii/A7riv. Today, I find myself at a crossroad. I want to get rid of one system to be able to commit long term to the other one. 

I shoot 50% video and 50% photos. 
For photos, its either street style and family stuff, or high resolution travel composites. 
For videos, on a daily basis I shoot little short films of my family, short travel videos, and about once year, I shoot a narrative short film (small crew). 
I only use prime lenses. 24mm 1.4 , 35mm 1.8 (90% of the time on my camera for both photo and video) , 85mm 1.4/1.2 , and for macro stuff I use the 100mm 2.8 on canon, and the 90mm 2.8 on Sony. This lens choice will never change for me. They are the four lenses I plan to use for the rest of my life. To be honest, they are great on Sony, and great on Canon, so my doubts concern more the bodies than the lenses at this point. 

When I first heard the specs of the R5, I thought it was going to be the body that does it all for me. As of today, it doesn't seem like it anymore. 
I will work for all my photo work, it will work for the family videos perfectly, it will work for the travel videos even better, but it might fall short to shoot my yearly short film. 

The ASiii on the other hand will be perfect for all of my video work, but it will not be ok for most of my photo needs, except the family portraits. 

When I ask myself what are my needs, and if I try to be objective and reasonable, here is what I come up with: 
- At least 24MP for photos + Great autofocus
- 4K 10 bit 422 for the family and travel videos
- Unlimited 4K 10 bit 422 AND/OR RAW recording for the short films. 
One thing I know for sure is that I want a compact system, that I own and master. So the idea of getting an R5 and rent out a cine cam for the short film doesn't suit my style/needs. 
Another thing I know is that I have a little more affection and trust for Canon than Sony as a brand, but I could get past that if needed. 

So here are the two solutions I can imagine for the future, to make myself happy and satisfied: 

1. Say goodbye to Sony forever. Invest in RF glass. Use the Canon R5 for my daily use and it will be more than perfect. When the time comes to shoot my yearly short film, either hope that Canon fixed some of the limitations via firmware update, or buy a second body to double my shooting time on set and give more time for the camera to cool off when needed. 

2. Say goodbye to Canon forever. Invest in FE glass. Own the A7Siii for my short film and a Ninja V for RAW recording, and patiently wait for the A7iv which should at least offer me a 24MP sensor, great autofocus, and 4K 10 bit 422. 

Well, sorry I just told you about my life, I know it didn't bring anything constructive to this debate, but I needed to write things down to figure out myself what I really wanted. I guessed I used you guys as my shrink, to let it all out. 

If you're curious about my work though, you can always check me out on Insta. My username is *stev *
All you see there has been shot either on the 1DXmkii or on the a7iii/A7riv... 
Except for the last two posts which I shot on my latest purchase. The Leica M10P.... which is actually becoming my favourite camera of all times, but I'll keep that story for another day or you might think I'm bipolar.... 

Cheers
Stev


----------



## stevensteven (Aug 2, 2020)

YuengLinger said:


> This is one of the best threads in ages. Very insightful generally.
> 
> Has anybody looked at the heating effects of IBIS? Does turning it off buy any time? And I wonder how it affects battery life.



Armando says in his video he has both IBIS and AF turned off, and the camera still overheats before he even has the time to roll. Although in my opinion he's trying to use the R5 like an Alexa, and that's really not what it was intended for...


----------



## CJudge (Aug 2, 2020)

genriquez said:


> I love Gerald Undone's work but he's not into photography. He pre-ordered 3 of Sony's new A7Siii which is an amazing 12MP video centric 4k camera that costs $3500. Canon should have just sent R5/R6 to hybrid or photography YouTubers. If the R5 was designed primarily for video they should have sent that to him.
> 
> He said that 12MP is fine for photography if you know what you are doing which is true but most photographers would never buy a $3500 camera with 12MP.
> 
> I hope his review of the R5 is compared to the A7RIV and not the A7Siii



Interestingly, in his live-stream he commented that the A7Riv beats the R5 when it comes to stills. It was only a passing comment while discussing other things, he didn't go into detail, but I'm keen to hear what informed that opinion.

AF - seems to be the same
Resolution - higher on the Sony
Battery - better on the Sony
IBIS - better on the Canon
FPS - higher on the Canon
LCD - better (and articulating) on the Canon
Low light Autofocus - better on the Canon

There could of course be other factors I'm missing, and it's always possible that Gerald simply finds the Sony's ergonomics and workflow to suit his needs better. But if he's basing it primarily on sensor resolution... that would be an odd rationality after noting how the A7Siii's 12MP sensor still provides enough resolution for most situations.


----------



## landon (Aug 2, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> For the past five years, I've been shooting with Sony and Canon exclusively.
> My main cameras are the 1DxmkII, and the A7iii/A7riv. Today, I find myself at a crossroad. I want to get rid of one system to be able to commit long term to the other one.
> 
> I shoot 50% video and 50% photos.
> ...


People will make a VERY EXPENSIVE choice to invest in these ecosystems. Which combination will they choose?

Canon: R5 (flagship) and R6 - Both have 30mins record limit.
Sony: A7siii - video centric, has unlimited recording, 1080-240fps. A7iv will be at least 20mp, 4K 10 bit 422, unlimited recording. (or A7riv)

When the pandemic is over and people get back to normality, and celebrations begin. Which of the two combination will wedding videographers and people like yourself choose?

I'm sure Canon got a video centric "R" in the works and can compete with the A7siii, but during this time when people are switching to the A7siii, they need to ANNOUNCE "Unlimited recording in low modes, 240p (crop) firmware for the R5/R6 COMING SOON to let fence sitters believe the Canon Flagship (the expensive R5 and EXPENSIVE RF glasses) is worth the investment. Let people have that option now when everyone is in lock down, so they can get used to the gear. Waiting for the "R1-pro" in a few years when the A7siii is available now is not wise. 

Sorry for my rant. People were patient with Canon on the R, because it's their first foray into FF mirrorless. 
The expensive flagship is here (R5). They won't take any more excuse when the A7siii is here and now.


----------



## padam (Aug 2, 2020)

wockawocka said:


> The boys at DPR claim the R6 is better at 4k than the R5


That is only true for one mode, which is the 4k60p FF (1.07x crop on the R6 to be precise) vs line-skipped mode on the R5

Flick the R5 to the APS-C crop mode, and it is comparable quality (it will be compatible with a Speed Booster which Metabones provides, with Canon developing its own version as well)
It also has 4k120p, which is a huge difference.
It has full sensor width Cinema 4K aspect ratio
It has ALL-I codecs, and of course the 8K RAW option
It may receive Canon Log 3 with even better dynamic range while the R6 will stay with Canon Log

It has way more options than the R6, also with way less rolling shutter because of the newer generation, faster readout sensor, this is something people overlook on the R6, it doesn't seem to be the greatest in that aspect (just like the 1DX III in FF 24p mode), but we'll need to see measurements.

The R5 seems like a way better video camera for most things, we just need to see just how bad is this overheating - but again there are lots of recording options and it isn't a problem in all of them, it has lots of options to be point of being overwhelming.


----------



## scyrene (Aug 2, 2020)

landon said:


> I'm assuming you're responding to me.
> A7siii now has flip screen, better menu. Is better in video options. A7iv coming will beat the r6 with flip screen, better menu. What's the reason for enticing ex-Canon users to come back then? Or for people to choose Canon, when Sony offer the same with greater lens choice. None! That's why you need to stem the flow now, in this sleepy pandemic when most people are bored with nothing to do.
> What's the harm in providing more options to anxious users now from switching. Longer recording times for wedding and interview usage. I'm telling you, if Canon wait longer for the R1 to come out to address these issues, when the a7iv comes out, it'll be too late. Why choose/stay with Canon when Sony has a vast lens choice?



People have been coming to these forums for YEARS saying "Canon must match/exceed Sony or they're *******" - so much that it's a tired meme here. And every time I ask, why is it different now? Each company releases new cameras, the relative sales figures don't change all that much over the long term.

Incidentally, I guess you meant "greater _native_ lens choice" given you can mount EF and EF-S lenses on RF bodies.


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## landon (Aug 2, 2020)

scyrene said:


> People have been coming to these forums for YEARS saying "Canon must match/exceed Sony or they're *******" - so much that it's a tired meme here. And every time I ask, why is it different now? Each company releases new cameras, the relative sales figures don't change all that much over the long term.
> 
> Incidentally, I guess you meant "greater _native_ lens choice" given you can mount EF and EF-S lenses on RF bodies.


I'll quote what I said in my reply to stevenson. 
People were patient with the R, Canon's first FF mirrorless. 
The flagship is here (R5), and what has it got compared to the competition? People are wondering is the VERY EXPENSIVE RF glasses that I have, or I'll need to replace, or need to buy for the RF ecosystem worth it? When everybody's got at least one good camera that they don't need to replace.


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 2, 2020)

vjlex said:


> Maybe I misinterpreted what the poster who I replied to meant when he said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Writing short bursts into buffer Isn’t an issue. think of it. : yes you write 2500 shots in 2 hours. That’s average of 2500/7200 images per second. or 45 x 2500/7200 MB/s Not much at all. 
it is well understood that you “don’t know.“ That’s fine. Please accept the following: shooting 2500 frames with a pro level body in 2 hours is normal. even at 85F and above average humidity.


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## BeenThere (Aug 2, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> For the past five years, I've been shooting with Sony and Canon exclusively.
> My main cameras are the 1DxmkII, and the A7iii/A7riv. Today, I find myself at a crossroad. I want to get rid of one system to be able to commit long term to the other one.
> 
> I shoot 50% video and 50% photos.
> ...


From the chart on page 1 from the OP, it looks like the R5 + Ninja 5 gets you done. Any limitations would be pretty easy to work around.


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## SecureGSM (Aug 2, 2020)

landon said:


> More affordable options. Although *their colors always make people look ill/teal.*


Who cares about colours these days. Oh, wait. ..


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## landon (Aug 2, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> Who cares about colours these days. Oh, wait. ..


It's like they misplaced the R in the RGB spectrum


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## scyrene (Aug 2, 2020)

landon said:


> I'll quote what I said in my reply to stevenson.
> People were patient with the R, Canon's first FF mirrorless.
> The flagship is here (R5), and what has it got compared to the competition? People are wondering is the VERY EXPENSIVE RF glasses that I have, or I'll need to replace, or need to buy for the RF ecosystem worth it? When everybody's got at least one good camera that they don't need to replace.



"People"? Do you have some polling on that, or are we projecting our own beliefs/anecdotal observations onto the population at large?

To answer your question, the R5 has got quite a lot compared to the competition. Not that spec lists should be how we judge cameras, but almost every feature of this camera is improved compared to the R, and many of them exceed (on paper at least) competitors' bodies in the same segment.


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## vjlex (Aug 2, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> Writing short bursts into buffer Isn’t an issue. think of it. : yes you write 2500 shots in 2 hours. That’s average of 2500/7200 images per second. or 45 x 2500/7200 MB/s Not much at all.
> it is well understood that you “don’t know.“ That’s fine. Please accept the following: shooting 2500 frames with a pro level body in 2 hours is normal. even at 85F and above average humidity.


You're misrepresenting what I'm saying. I did not claim writing short bursts into the buffer is an issue. Nor did I say that shooting 2500 frames in 2 hours is abnormal. You're making assumptions that I myself am not willing to make.


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## landon (Aug 2, 2020)

scyrene said:


> "People"? Do you have some polling on that, or are we projecting our own beliefs/anecdotal observations onto the population at large?
> 
> To answer your question, the R5 has got quite a lot compared to the competition. Not that spec lists should be how we judge cameras, but almost every feature of this camera is improved compared to the R, and many of them exceed (on paper at least) competitors' bodies in the same segment.


Read what poster stevensteven said his dilema is. People with money and can invest in expensive FF camera/glass can make a choice to go with the ecosystem they feel best fit their needs. 
With the release of the A7siii and soon A7iv or current A7riv. Soon with flip screen and better menu. What reason for a person with no EF or RF glasses to go with Canon? Or stay with Canon, when they don't have any RF glass yet?
Many people are cancelling their R5/R6 pre-order (on Youtube) because the A7siii offer better *video specs*. And when they do migrate to the Sony system, the soon a7iv (hybrid) and current a7riv (photo) will do similar job of the R5 and 5Div. 
The GAS bois are willing to fork out $1000 more to get the A7siii over the R6, due to the better video specs, and they'll keep that camera and ecosystem. Canon/Pana/BMP4k/6k won't get them back. Now you might think they are a minority and most pro aren't on social media, but the market is shrinking, and these are the people willing to spend big on hobbies and wannabe filmmakers start up package.


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## Nilo (Aug 2, 2020)

I am a nature photographer. I work mainly in Africa, generally with hot weather.
Can someone clarify for me if I only shoot photos and don't use video mode, Canon EOS R5 might stop working due to overheating?
I'm confused.
Thank you.


----------



## peters (Aug 2, 2020)

Tom W said:


> Is it the sensor that heats up, or a processor that is doing it? The sensor, since it has movement to deal with IBIS, would be difficult to cool other than by the air around it. Mounting it solidly to the magnesium frame would cool it, but it would then be unable to move for stabilization.
> 
> The processor, on the other hand, could use part of the magnesium housing as a heat sink if designed as such, even if the heat transfer is through a conductive heat sink type of thing. If the heat is adequately transferred to the back or bottom of the camera body, then some type of external cooling would be effective.


I think it shouldnt be a problem to build a heatpipe on a moving thing like the sensor. They could use a flexible material which conducts heat very well. Some kind of gel maybe or just thinner metal bands. A watercooled PC also got flexible pipes, so I guess it should be possible.


----------



## Kit. (Aug 2, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> How many of you would buy a Canon EOSR5*C*?
> 
> It would compromise weather sealing
> ...
> Would you buy this camera?


No.


----------



## genriquez (Aug 2, 2020)

CJudge said:


> Interestingly, in his live-stream he commented that the A7Riv beats the R5 when it comes to stills. It was only a passing comment while discussing other things, he didn't go into detail, but I'm keen to hear what informed that opinion.
> 
> AF - seems to be the same
> Resolution - higher on the Sony
> ...



He definitely does camera reviews well but mostly video centric. His reviews of the EOS R highlighted focus peaking and DPAF for smooth video transitions. I think he was also a fan of the m50. But he hasn't reviewed (in my hastily done search) cameras like the m6 or 1dx. So I expect his review if the R5/R6 to also be video centric. Again I just hope he compares the R5 to the Sony A7RIV. Other reviewers (DPReview, Tony/Chelsea) have said that the quality of the 4kHQ are better than Sony but because they can't record indefinitely then it's a problem.


----------



## freejay (Aug 2, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> One thing of context that I have only seen written once. Even when the camera stops recording in the limited modes, 8k, 4k120 etc,* it will still work as a stills and video camera for any other mode, instantly.* This is not the behavior all other hybrids exhibit, once they ‘overheat’ they are bricks. The Canon NEVER bricks even when it won’t record in the limited modes anymore.


I can confirm this: I recorded in 4k HQ mode (30p) until the camera shut down after about 27 minutes due to heat. After some minutes (max 5, I didn't look at my watch) I restarted the R5 - overheat warning was still there. Then I changed to non HQ 4k 30p: The overheat icon disappeared and I was able to record more than an hour instantly. I stopped after about 70 minutes - there was no overheat warning or anything. So from my point of view: The R5 works within the official specifications.


----------



## freejay (Aug 2, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> I understand, YouTube is a great platform to be heard, which is why the overheating and cooldown issue is having a spotlight shone on it. But how many in the real world market would pony up for a video oriented mirrorless camera ala the A7SIII?
> 
> How many of you would buy a Canon EOSR5*C*?
> 
> ...


If all current available recording modes would then record unlimited? Everybody! It would be the best video camera under 10.000$ I guess.


----------



## bernie_king (Aug 2, 2020)

NorskHest said:


> I really do hope all this stuff gets sorted cause I think it is a pretty rad product but for professional use in its current state it is not reliable. With the heat today while shooting the heat index was 94 with humidity and the camera was always in hand and the sun was very direct. Now I have never had this with any of my 1d’s or 5 ‘s so it was a real surprise. I know people will call what I experienced bullshit or something but I am a canon fan, I own 2 1dc’s a 1dxii a 5div a c200 a 600 f4 , 400 2.8 and the list goes on. Cameras are tools for my work and I have always purchased canon for reliability and the R5 is not reliable currently


Another quick clarification... did both bodies overheat, or just yours? Also, did you get the battery overheat warning (flame) or the thermal overheat warning? If battery, were you using the new battery or one from your 90D?


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## genriquez (Aug 2, 2020)

freejay said:


> If all current available recording modes would then record unlimited? Everybody! It would be the best video camera under 10.000$ I guess.



Unfortunately a lot of people on the internet are reading the "4kHQ and 8K aren't available" as "no video is possible at all".


----------



## Max TT (Aug 2, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> Armando says in his video he has both IBIS and AF turned off, and the camera still overheats before he even has the time to roll. Although in my opinion he's trying to use the R5 like an Alexa, and that's really not what it was intended for...


Stev awesome IG gallery dude!


----------



## slclick (Aug 2, 2020)

Max C said:


> Can I sell you a rear derailleur that only works on flat roads? Haha sorry couldn't resist.


Yeah, it was tame. Esp what with the old two speed kickback hubs and fixies for stills only analogies which you could have gone for, but I'll give you a point for trying to use my other passion for making me look absurd. Seriously though, I am so entrenched in playing/recording music & cycling (new builds), photography and all the insanity over the R5/6 is passing me by and I could not be happier. Canon still, no pun intended hasn't built an R body that tempts me.


----------



## Axilrod (Aug 2, 2020)

Max C said:


> Stev awesome IG gallery dude!


Yeah I second that, really amazing work


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## Axilrod (Aug 2, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> For the past five years, I've been shooting with Sony and Canon exclusively.
> My main cameras are the 1DxmkII, and the A7iii/A7riv. Today, I find myself at a crossroad. I want to get rid of one system to be able to commit long term to the other one.
> 
> I shoot 50% video and 50% photos.
> ...



I'm in a very similar boat to you. My initial thought was that I could buy the R5 and sell my A7S2/A7III/Sony lenses and be back to all Canon. I shot Canon video until 2015 and I couldn't ignore how much better Sony video was and moved over. I preordered the R5 but ended up cancelling it because the A7S3 just made more sense for me since I shoot like 90% video. But I love shooting Canon stills, I just never liked shooting photos on Sony mirrorless for some reason. Also love my Canon glass so it looks like I'm going to continue using both systems for the forseeable future.


----------



## Zee44 (Aug 2, 2020)

sanj said:


> Unpleasant. Less than 25 mins indicates an inferior product. To me.


Which product does 8k at this price for over 25 mins?


----------



## genriquez (Aug 2, 2020)

Zee44 said:


> Which product does 8k at this price for over 25 mins?



Also 25min of 8k is somewhere around 200GB. That's a $400 CFexpress 256GB card.

Edit: I was wrong. With canon's bitrate 25 min of 8k is 488GB. That's a $600 card for 512GB


----------



## Zee44 (Aug 2, 2020)

Darrell Cadieux said:


> This is what worries me. I am a photographer and don't care about video. I've been a Canon shooter since 1969 and really wanted a Canon stills camera with face/eye AF, IBIS and high resolution. Was going to by an R5 as this would have answered my dreams...I shall now wait to see what comes out from actual documented testing from using it as a camera...not a video recorder.


If you only shoot stills, you will love the R5. In my opinion no mirrorless come close if you combine it with RF glass and up 8 stops stabilisation.


----------



## cornieleous (Aug 2, 2020)

vjlex said:


> I don't have much experience shooting in burst modes extensively. But 45-60mb files multiplied by 12 to 20 FPS in short order for hours, we're talking between 500mb to 1.2gb A SECOND! That's a lot of data to write. And that isn't even taking into consideration DPRAW or writing dual files to dual cards.I don't know what this camera is fully capable of, but 'a few thousand bursts'- (we're talking hundreds of gigs), no, I'm not surprised that it would overheat doing that in any environment.



People are saying it is normal to shoot several thousand images in a couple hours, but what is the comparison? A giant DSLR with smaller MP sensor that will heat less with each burst and cool more easily? Even in short bursts of dozens to hundreds of images, a camera is running full-out for a few minutes writing the buffers and to two cards- this is near max processing just like HQ video, especially with tracking and IBIS running. This will heat the camera each burst, and if the body is small and compact, heat dissipation to the outside will not be as effective as a large body. Over time, and with the sun, the camera is going to get really hot inside. The R5 is a tiny MILC body. The comparisons to a 1DX3 is senseless. The 1DX series is huge compared to this camera. People are calling this heat issue a problem because they expect a dedicated video camera or dedicated sports camera. If I start to hear reports or have my own experience with more normal forms of stills shooting, I will become concerned, but so far all reports of 'problems' come from people pushing the camera hard as a specialty sports or video camera when it is a hybrid.

The major mistake I think Canon made is giving this camera capabilities of their higher end video cameras and sports cameras in a tiny body that cannot do those duties indefinitely in all environments. They were not clear enough about this being a 5D5 stills camera replacement in a mirrorless body. No one expects the 5D4 to do anything but basic video and pretty good stills reliably, and the same should be true of what is essentially a mirrorless 5D5. Maybe if they didn't choose such a tiny body, the thermal situation would be better, but then vloggers and wedding photographers would be crying about it.

Without being spoon fed the obvious, many customers are just not that educated about technology and have no idea what to expect or how to pick a camera properly- this is why they turn to all the dumb youtube reviewers, most of whom unfortunately make their living on being talking heads who hype everything.

The real failing of the R5 release is not one of engineering, but of marketing. It may have been smarter of Canon to not offer the high fps or 4kHQ or 8k, but if they did, you know how loud people would be crying about 'the cripple hammer'. I would hate to work in consumer electronics right now. People who don't have a clue how their gadgets work are just the most demanding, pissy, egotistical lot. The more uninformed they are, the louder they seem to be, parroting the opinions of anyone who they think sounds informed. They always want more for less, and just once I wish any of them had the brains to be on the engineering side and see just how hard it is, just how amazing the R5 actually is in this tiny body.

I'll be right here complaining with everyone if this camera fails me for reasonable use (excellent stills in all environments plus light duty high quality video). I'll compare it to the 5D4, the market segment it belongs. So far in my reasonable torture test in direct sunlight the camera meets and exceeds what Canon said it could do, and meets my needs. People trying to use it as all time HQ video camera, cinema camera or sports camera, and those deliberately just 'leaning on the shutter' etc. are perhaps not considering the purpose it was designed to and are expecting hybrid to perform as a specialist. Just silly.

If firmware improvement or a manufacturing fix can make things better, great. Otherwise I expect that if the camera performs to reasonable limits it will serve many of us well. Time will tell.


----------



## Max TT (Aug 2, 2020)

slclick said:


> Yeah, it was tame. Esp what with the old two speed kickback hubs and fixies for stills only analogies which you could have gone for, but I'll give you a point for trying to use my other passion for making me look absurd. Seriously though, I am so entrenched in playing/recording music & cycling (new builds), photography and all the insanity over the R5/6 is passing me by and I could not be happier. Canon still, no pun intended hasn't built an R body that tempts me.



I retired two years ago from the sport, no racing anymore, only recreational now and some coaching. Best decision ever! If I can just sell some of these bikes in the stable, affording an army of R5's should not be a problem haha whenever one overheats grab another lol

With Covid they have banned group rides, so I am Zwifting this morning indoors


----------



## cornieleous (Aug 2, 2020)

landon said:


> I'm assuming you're responding to me.
> A7siii now has flip screen, better menu. Is better in video options. A7iv coming will beat the r6 with flip screen, better menu. What's the reason for enticing ex-Canon users to come back then? Or for people to choose Canon, when Sony offer the same with greater lens choice. None! That's why you need to stem the flow now, in this sleepy pandemic when most people are bored with nothing to do.
> What's the harm in providing more options to anxious users now from switching. Longer recording times for wedding and interview usage. I'm telling you, if Canon wait longer for the R1 to come out to address these issues, when the a7iv comes out, it'll be too late. Why choose/stay with Canon when Sony has a vast lens choice?



You probably think this song is about you. Enjoy your Sony.


----------



## Cryhavoc (Aug 2, 2020)

NorskHest said:


> That’s 19 min from a cold body with no foreplay, you take a pic or two and fiddle in the menus that time begins to drop. I got to use an r5 today out at a Motocross event and well it turned off from only doing photos. This was using the ef to rf adapter and a 200mm f2. This was used for over a time period of 2.5-3 hrs and it was 86 degrees out. I’m glad that I didn’t buy it and needless to say my friend who did is pretty disappointed. I love 1d bodies



Turned off due to a dead battery since it was used over 2.5 to 3 hours?


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## slclick (Aug 2, 2020)

My R5 is on preorder so please Canon send some firmware to 'fix' it before I ever use it. The Category


Zee44 said:


> If you only shoot stills, you will love the R5. In my opinion no mirrorless come close if you combine it with RF glass and up 8 stops stabilisation.


I appreciate this sentiment and perhaps it will be part of my way of thinking for a new body but is this from personal experience in your hands or specs? Asking seriously. I have yet to see any early adopter accounts of stills shooting examples or reviews. I am interested in these! Thanks


----------



## slclick (Aug 2, 2020)

Max C said:


> I retired two years ago from the sport, no racing anymore, only recreational now and some coaching. Best decision ever! If I can just sell some of these bikes in the stable, affording an army of R5's should not be a problem haha whenever one overheats grab another lol
> 
> With Covid they have banned group rides, so I am Zwifting this morning indoors
> View attachment 191786


I've put in about 3,000 solo miles outdoors this year and it's been wonderful. Peaceful and zen like at times. Group rides, whatever, they can return when they do and when it's safe. I ride for myself.


----------



## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (Aug 2, 2020)

sanj said:


> Unpleasant. Less than 25 mins indicates an inferior product. To me.



Matter of opinion. Lack of 8K altogether in other cameras could indicate an inferior product. How about lack of MP above 12 MP? Maybe that's an inferior product. 

Basically, the EOS R5 is what it is. Buy it, or don't.


----------



## TheSalvatore (Aug 2, 2020)

I'm facing an issue with both my R5. I tried recording 4K 120fps onto my Wise 256GB card (R:1700mbps , W: 1550mbps) but less than 20 secs it keeps showing "movie recording stopped. Slow card write speed". I don't get it... I thought the Wise 256GB is fast enough? Anyone encounter the same problem?


----------



## stevensteven (Aug 2, 2020)

Max C said:


> Stev awesome IG gallery dude!



Ay mate, thanks so much for stopping by


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## stevensteven (Aug 2, 2020)

Axilrod said:


> Yeah I second that, really amazing work



Thank you thank you brother, appreciate it... much love


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## NorskHest (Aug 2, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> People are saying it is normal to shoot several thousand images in a couple hours, but what is the comparison? A giant DSLR with smaller MP sensor that will heat less with each burst and cool more easily? Even in short bursts of dozens to hundreds of images, a camera is running full-out for a few minutes writing the buffers and to two cards- this is near max processing just like HQ video, especially with tracking and IBIS running. This will heat the camera each burst, and if the body is small and compact, heat dissipation to the outside will not be as effective as a large body. Over time, and with the sun, the camera is going to get really hot inside. The R5 is a tiny MILC body. The comparisons to a 1DX3 is senseless. The 1DX series is huge compared to this camera. People are calling this heat issue a problem because they expect a dedicated video camera or dedicated sports camera. If I start to hear reports or have my own experience with more normal forms of stills shooting, I will become concerned, but so far all reports of 'problems' come from people pushing the camera hard as a specialty sports or video camera when it is a hybrid.
> 
> The major mistake I think Canon made is giving this camera capabilities of their higher end video cameras and sports cameras in a tiny body that cannot do those duties indefinitely in all environments. They were not clear enough about this being a 5D5 stills camera replacement in a mirrorless body. No one expects the 5D4 to do anything but basic video and pretty good stills reliably, and the same should be true of what is essentially a mirrorless 5D5. Maybe if they didn't choose such a tiny body, the thermal situation would be better, but then vloggers and wedding photographers would be crying about it.
> 
> ...


So when I go shoot with my 5d in the same conditions as I do with the R5 I used or my 1d and shoot a few thousand out in the heat and lean on it because that’s part of the way it goes with high speed Motorsport photography I must be doing it wrong and it must not be the camera that shoots 12 FPS and pretty much has no buffer and is touted as being your one stop shop. People shoot 5ds and a7s at the events I also work at. You all need to take a step back and check your tribalism. Your god failed you life will go on .


----------



## stevensteven (Aug 2, 2020)

Axilrod said:


> I'm in a very similar boat to you. My initial thought was that I could buy the R5 and sell my A7S2/A7III/Sony lenses and be back to all Canon. I shot Canon video until 2015 and I couldn't ignore how much better Sony video was and moved over. I preordered the R5 but ended up cancelling it because the A7S3 just made more sense for me since I shoot like 90% video. But I love shooting Canon stills, I just never liked shooting photos on Sony mirrorless for some reason. Also love my Canon glass so it looks like I'm going to continue using both systems for the forseeable future.



I feel exactly the same about taking photos on Sony. The A7RIV is a brilliant piece of art, I have nothing wrong to say about this camera (except maybe the lack of option to switch to smaller file sizes)... 
But there's something about it that I never enjoyed, and that always sent me back to my Leica M10P for photos, which on the specs sheet is inferior in every single way. At first I thought it might be my lenses, but my lenses were perfectly fine on video. 
Then I started comparing extensively the raw files with my 1dxmkii, and they were SO SO SO similar I couldn't have said which one is which in a blind test. 

And then I realised what the issue was for me: the jpeg preview that popped up on the screen after reviewing the photos was always ugly to my eyes. On the canon or the Leica, the photos I see on the screen are always so pleasing to watch. You might ask, who cares since the raw files are almost identical?

Well, that's the point I want to make. I CARE. Because I care about the experience. I don't want to simply shot with a computer in my hands that does all the work. I want to shoot with something I enjoy shooting with.... and sometimes, cameras with much more limitations can make you way happier about your work, as long as they have more "soul". 
Not sure if that makes sense to you, but that's exactly how I feel with my Leica M10P. No autofocus, obsolete sensor, no IBIS, etc... but god it has so much soul. And because I love shooting with it, I love all my photos that come out of it....


----------



## stevensteven (Aug 2, 2020)

TheSalvatore said:


> I'm facing an issue with both my R5. I tried recording 4K 120fps onto my Wise 256GB card (R:1700mbps , W: 1550mbps) but less than 20 secs it keeps showing "movie recording stopped. Slow card write speed". I don't get it... I thought the Wise 256GB is fast enough? Anyone encounter the same problem?



I read somewhere that only 3 brands are compatible with 120 4K and 8K raw for now. Sandisk, Sony tough, and a third one I forgot. I was going to buy an angel bird that's better priced at my go to shop, but the salesperson said it wasn't supported...


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## NorskHest (Aug 2, 2020)

bernie_king said:


> Another quick clarification... did both bodies overheat, or just yours? Also, did you get the battery overheat warning (flame) or the thermal overheat warning? If battery, were you using the new battery or one from your 90D?


It was my friends camera, we used the new lp batts. I had just got done shooting a burst and looked at the photos that were captured and the red thermometer was flashing and I proceeded to shoot more then the camera stopped. It took somewhere between 10-15 min to start working again. After this tho I quit using it


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## TheSalvatore (Aug 2, 2020)

I tried using the same card (Wise) in the shop to test their R5 8K raw and got no issue. 
I have issue using my both R5 shooting 8K Raw and 4K 120FPS with Clog. 4K120fps without Clog is fine... This is really weird...


----------



## scyrene (Aug 2, 2020)

landon said:


> Read what poster stevensteven said his dilema is. People with money and can invest in expensive FF camera/glass can make a choice to go with the ecosystem they feel best fit their needs.



Absolutely. Everyone should buy what best suits their needs and budget. But then what you go on to say suggests you think everyone should choose the camera(s) _you_ think are best. Which is it?



landon said:


> With the release of the A7siii and soon A7iv or current A7riv. Soon with flip screen and better menu.



The A7S3 is not a direct competitor of the R5, and only partially of the R6. You're comparing apples with oranges. "Flip screen and better menu" - wow. Is that it? Clearly they improved in the previous version but honestly, talk about incremental. The R5 is light years ahead of the original R.



landon said:


> What reason for a person with no EF or RF glasses to go with Canon? Or stay with Canon, when they don't have any RF glass yet?



Once again you're ignoring your own advice above. If I were starting out, with the aims and desires I have (wildlife shooting, macro, flower and insect portraits, low light interior shots, etc), why would I choose the new Sony? 12MP isn't enough for me, and the new Canon IBIS and AF are said to be better (we don't know for sure until it's all rigorously tested). The A7R3 is better (on paper) in a few key areas that appeal to vidographers. Newsflash: the R5 and R6 are _hybrid cameras aimed at photographers_.



landon said:


> Many people are cancelling their R5/R6 pre-order (on Youtube) because the A7siii offer better *video specs*. And when they do migrate to the Sony system, the soon a7iv (hybrid) and current a7riv (photo) will do similar job of the R5 and 5Div.
> The GAS bois are willing to fork out $1000 more to get the A7siii over the R6, due to the better video specs, and they'll keep that camera and ecosystem. Canon/Pana/BMP4k/6k won't get them back. Now you might think they are a minority and most pro aren't on social media, but the market is shrinking, and these are the people willing to spend big on hobbies and wannabe filmmakers start up package.



Many? How many? You have sales/preorder figures? No, once again you're taking a few anecdotes and spinning them into a narrative. We have no idea how many bodies were preordered, how many preorders were cancelled, nor how either of those figures compares to what Canon was expecting or previous releases. Stop speaking for everyone (which once again goes against your "everyone should buy what best fits their needs" comment above).


----------



## BeenThere (Aug 2, 2020)

NorskHest said:


> So when I go shoot with my 5d in the same conditions as I do with the R5 I used or my 1d and shoot a few thousand out in the heat and lean on it because that’s part of the way it goes with high speed Motorsport photography I must be doing it wrong and it must not be the camera that shoots 12 FPS and pretty much has no buffer and is touted as being your one stop shop. People shoot 5ds and a7s at the events I also work at. You all need to take a step back and check your tribalism. Your god failed you life will go on .


If you shoot in a niche where camera A does not perform, and a camera B does, then by all means, use camera B. Is there any camera that works in all scenarios? I look at all features before deciding for myself. I won’t be driving a mustang on a formula 1 track. Many choices are available.


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 2, 2020)

TheSalvatore said:


> I'm facing an issue with both my R5. I tried recording 4K 120fps onto my Wise 256GB card (R:1700mbps , W: 1550mbps) but less than 20 secs it keeps showing "movie recording stopped. Slow card write speed". I don't get it... I thought the Wise 256GB is fast enough? Anyone encounter the same problem?


Check out my reply to the other gear thread. 8k raw needs cards capable of 325MBps. If you card doesn’t tell you the sustained rate then it is likely to be telling you the max or burst rate. Canon has a list of compatible cards. 120fps is 225 to 235MBps.


----------



## mpeeps (Aug 2, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> Well said. They will never stop though. People are caught up in emotion and hype. The average person seems incapable of their own nuanced and logical thought process, which is why they give so much time to paid talking heads on youtube. I'm guessing this bashing and trying to change the R5 probably gives them a place to exert force and control in an out of control world these days.
> 
> It is pretty clear that the camera performs very well for what it was designed for. I've done my own overheat test and exceeded the record times Canon specified in direct sun and hot ambient air. It will more than cover my needs, and its design point: stills with limited very high quality video, and competent 4k30 and 1080 that you can use to your hearts desire.
> 
> ...


Yes, well said. This is the best post on this site. I'm not a pro, but love stills photography and love reading what pros have to say about all things Canon and photography. I have preordered the R5 and will be thrilled to carry on with what I have accomplished and learned so far with the 7D, 6D, 5DS-R, and R.


----------



## TheSalvatore (Aug 2, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> Check out my reply to the other gear thread. 8k raw needs cards capable of 325MBps. If you card doesn’t tell you the sustained rate then it is likely to be telling you the max or burst rate. Canon has a list of compatible cards. 120fps is 225 to 235MBps.



The weird thing is that I tried the same card in the shop with their display set (R5), it works fine on 8k Raw though...As for 4K120fps I didnt try on their R5. It's even weirder when I turned off Clog, I dont have any issue. But once I turned it back on, the problem came back.


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## Stu_bert (Aug 2, 2020)

TheSalvatore said:


> I tried using the same card (Wise) in the shop to test their R5 8K raw and got no issue.
> I have issue using my both R5 shooting 8K Raw and 4K 120FPS with Clog. 4K120fps without Clog is fine... This is really weird...


Oh.. yes strange if one worked ok. See if you can contact the manufacturer for sustained write speeds which may confirm a faulty card


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## TheSalvatore (Aug 2, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> Oh.. yes strange if one worked ok. See if you can contact the manufacturer for sustained write speeds which may confirm a faulty card


I have 2 wise cards and both giving me the same problem... And tried on both my R5 same issue too :/ Sigh


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## TheSalvatore (Aug 2, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> Oh.. yes strange if one worked ok. See if you can contact the manufacturer for sustained write speeds which may confirm a faulty card


Also, I found this online: https://www.newsshooter.com/2020/01/27/wise-cfexpress-card-review/ 
This person tested the same card I'm currently using. Seems like no issue


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## adigoks (Aug 2, 2020)

freejay said:


> If all current available recording modes would then record unlimited? Everybody! It would be the best video camera under 10.000$ I guess.


that would not be good for company tho. it literally kill all their under 10000$ cinema camera


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 2, 2020)

vjlex said:


> You're misrepresenting what I'm saying. I did not claim writing short bursts into the buffer is an issue. Nor did I say that shooting 2500 frames in 2 hours is abnormal. You're making assumptions that I myself am not willing to make.


What are you on about? All I am saying is that shooting 2500 frames in 2 hours has never been an issue. You can do that even with 5DsR. It doesn‘t require 12FPS or 1200mbit/s write to card speed.
it is a reasonable expectation for a pro level body to keep up with such a task without overheating.


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## adigoks (Aug 2, 2020)

wockawocka said:


> The boys at DPR claim the R6 is better at 4k than the R5


better in quality, but not in usability cause its overheat.
in usability , R5 is better.


----------



## davidhfe (Aug 2, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> For all those reasons I don't think a die shrink is in the immediate future or a solution. I would love to see the a Lens Rentals tear down though. Is there any kind of heat sink on the DIGIC X? Is there room for one to pipe heat to the body? People complaining that the camera is overheated yet the body feels cool indicates a big thermal management issue. Hopefully one they can solve.



Yeah, this die shrink talk is comical. We have no idea what node Digic X is. I’m not sure if we even know if Canon fabs it themselves. Could be on TSMCs 7nm for all we know!

Anyways, I’d caution some serious expectation setting for folks who aren’t happy with the current state of the camera. Again, remember the 5D4 firmware update lots of us got super excited for?


----------



## Bdbtoys (Aug 2, 2020)

TheSalvatore said:


> I'm facing an issue with both my R5. I tried recording 4K 120fps onto my Wise 256GB card (R:1700mbps , W: 1550mbps) but less than 20 secs it keeps showing "movie recording stopped. Slow card write speed". I don't get it... I thought the Wise 256GB is fast enough? Anyone encounter the same problem?



I was curious about the brand so I did a quick check on their site. Note the 1550mbs is max, not sustained. All you need to do is dip below sustained to overflow the buffer and then you get an error. I couldn't find anything about the sustained speed, but did find this which leads me to believe the 1550 overstated. There are a couple of different ways to read into that note, but guessing it's a lot like the SanDisk 512GB cards being faster than the 64/128/256 counterparts.

Per their documentation at http://www.wise-advanced.com.tw/sup/pdf/Compatibility Guide-20200706.pdf






Note been seeing this on a lot of brands... where looking at just the max write is misleading. You have to dig what the minimum is.


----------



## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (Aug 2, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> *For real?*
> 
> This is the PR disaster I mentioned in the other thread



What a bunch of vague ... lol !!

PR disaster? Anonymous comments, lacking lots of relevant information. Could be the battery grip loose or other, for as vague as the comment was.

Meanwhile, Youtube is racking up a good number of real-face photographers the past couple days, reporting actual use with more details and information. Hours to full day shooting, and decent battery life too. I prefer the real people examples where they can be seen speaking, or at least profiles tracing to real names with websites and contact info.


----------



## DrToast (Aug 2, 2020)

If Canon released this camera with 4k 24p model only, it would be in the running for camera of the year. But because they decided to add additional recording options, it gets shit on.

It's a still camera that can do some video. 

I'll bet they can make a A7s competitor if they wanted to.


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## Shakey (Aug 2, 2020)

AEWest said:


> Unfortunately there are not enough stills only photographers left to warrant it. At least that's what Canon believes or they would offer one.
> 
> Also, the resale value of such a camera would likely be low given the small market for it.


Maybe. In the small group of photographers that I know only one person has shot video. CR did a survey a couple of years ago and only a very small percentage, less than 10% I believe shot video. Not saying video is not a valued market but is it bigger than stills shooting. It would be interesting to find out


----------



## chrisgibbs (Aug 2, 2020)

slclick said:


> My R5 is on preorder so please Canon send some firmware to 'fix' it before I ever use it. The Category
> 
> I appreciate this sentiment and perhaps it will be part of my way of thinking for a new body but is this from personal experience in your hands or specs? Asking seriously. I have yet to see any early adopter accounts of stills shooting examples or reviews. I am interested in these! Thanks





I'd have thought at least one serious stills photog would've been brought into the testing roster.

-------------------------------

I wanted to see this thing being dragged around a few recent US riots by a wire service staffer.

See it swinging from someones shoulder as they got pushed around by an unruly crowd.

See it getting drenched from the water jet of a riot control cannon.

See it getting bounced off police riot shields.

Seeing it functioning flawlessly in 90 plus degree heat, under those conditions............... PRICELESS.

--------------------------------

Seeing the R5 on someones porch (or in some old guys basement) with a stopwatch and digital thermometer on it tells a photographer nothing-- shame on you Canon Marketing!


----------



## mpeeps (Aug 2, 2020)

CJudge said:


> Interestingly, in his live-stream he commented that the A7Riv beats the R5 when it comes to stills. It was only a passing comment while discussing other things, he didn't go into detail, but I'm keen to hear what informed that opinion.
> 
> AF - seems to be the same
> Resolution - higher on the Sony
> ...


I've never heard anyone anywhere says that Sony's color rendition is better than Canon's until I watched his livestream.


----------



## Shakey (Aug 2, 2020)

chrisgibbs said:


> It should've been marketed like the 5Dll was, emphasis on STILLS CAMERA-- "Meet the R5, your mirrorless 5D, it has IBIS, EyeAF, Animal Face Detect and more........ (it'll even shoot some pretty decent video, if needs must)."
> 
> The 5Dll was a dogs bollock for video work, it was a nightmare. A whole cinematography ecosystem sprung up around it, Zacuto innovated their Z-Finders and all sorts of rigs for it. BUT EVERYONE was thrilled with the 5Dll, as it was never sold as the filmmakers be all end all.
> 
> ...


It is an endless question. I guess for me all of the video features, while nice, just add to the cost and complexity of the camera. It is not the hard cost that keeps the price high but I would think the R&D costs are pretty expensive. Even saying this I would but the R5 in a heartbeat if I had the funds


----------



## SteveC (Aug 2, 2020)

TheSalvatore said:


> I'm facing an issue with both my R5. I tried recording 4K 120fps onto my Wise 256GB card (R:1700mbps , W: 1550mbps) but less than 20 secs it keeps showing "movie recording stopped. Slow card write speed". I don't get it... I thought the Wise 256GB is fast enough? Anyone encounter the same problem?



I haven't specifically seen this (I don't have a CFexpress card yet, because I haven't figured out yet which one to buy), but cards in general start out writing at their max speed, but quickly drop to a minimum write speed. If the Wise card's minimum speed is too slow, no matter what it started out as, you'll quickly find that the camera complains the card is too slow.

Unfortunately, it can be hard to determine the minimum write speed for some cards.


----------



## mpeeps (Aug 2, 2020)

Zee44 said:


> If you only shoot stills, you will love the R5. In my opinion no mirrorless come close if you combine it with RF glass and up 8 stops stabilisation.


I can't wait to try the RF50 and EF24T/S on the R5.


----------



## chrisgibbs (Aug 2, 2020)

mpeeps said:


> I've never heard anyone anywhere says that Sony's color rendition is better than Canon's until I watched his livestream.



A lot of the SONY *supposed* colour issues stem from Lightroom users. The early A7's did have a pretty ugly video look though, it took a little more experience to draw out a nice grade. 

The A7Slll has inherited a few tricks (new color science) from SONY's high end cinema cameras-- apparently its a huge improvement.

On a side note, try Capture One with Sony and Fuji RAW files. 

If you compare *all around output* of the A7Rlll to the A7RlV it gets interesting, I came away thinking the A7Rlll may be a little better at base ISO and below. So much so to say, I passed on the A7RlV, even though it had better ergonomics, unrestricted video recording time and a fully digital audio pipeline through the MI shoe. 

I'd bet, no one will be able to distinguish between the R5 and A7R's going forward, they're all *that good.*


----------



## CJudge (Aug 2, 2020)

mpeeps said:


> I've never heard anyone anywhere says that Sony's color rendition is better than Canon's until I watched his livestream.



In fairness to Sony, they've made massive improvements in the past two generations. But yes, it's clear that Gerald likes to have full control of his colour grading. For a lot of people, Canon's punchy, contrasty image with rich reds is good enough that they don't even want to grade it. But to each their own.


----------



## chrisgibbs (Aug 2, 2020)

Shakey said:


> It is an endless question. I guess for me all of the video features, while nice, just add to the cost and complexity of the camera. It is not the hard cost that keeps the price high but I would think the R&D costs are pretty expensive. Even saying this I would but the R5 in a heartbeat if I had the funds



Take a look at Sony's A9ll. Practically no *modern* video functionally, but comes in $1K higher than the A7Slll. That A9 video though, its surprisingly good, organic looking. It's kinda like the old Canon 5Dll.


----------



## ryphoto (Aug 2, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> Do these numbers represent shooting limits while the camera is rolling only, or does it also include idle time ? If its rolling only, perfectly fine for me...



Reportedly the heat builds anytime the camera is on, even in idle (i.e. framing shots, etc.) it has been pointed out however that you can frame your shot, turn the camera off, and then you lose your focus after you turn it back on. Hopefully that can be fixed.

What's not being reported is everything else you get with the camera system. Amazing lenses, color, photos, etc. Like many people have pointed out its up to our experience to see if it works for us. Many of us dont have the funds to just buy a camera for thousands of dollars without some idea of how it will perform. Thats why people like Gerald are great, but he would be the first to say that it's your experience that matters.

There is absolutely nothing wrong with these cameras, if anything I think marketing dropped the ball a bit. From the pre-production announcements it was the video that was being marketed, which I think may have been a mistake. These are amazing photo cameras, with the ability to do amazing video as a hybrid, and also video pushed to the limit by professionals who have the experience and desire to do it. 

I can't imagine anyone that would be disappointed with either of these cameras, they are going to be amazing tools.


----------



## 1D4 (Aug 2, 2020)

vjlex said:


> I heard it from another user on the FM forums. He was using a battery from his 90D.
> It's early days. I expect to hear these things pop up and am kind of glad for them. The quicker and more detailed and fully-disclosed information we get , the better I would say. The beta tests have begun!


It turns out the FM user only got a heat warning icon, and his camera turned off due to the battery dying. He said he put in a new battery and was shooting stills again (warning went away, too).


----------



## PGSanta (Aug 2, 2020)

NorskHest said:


> It was my friends camera, we used the new lp batts. I had just got done shooting a burst and looked at the photos that were captured and the red thermometer was flashing and I proceeded to shoot more then the camera stopped. It took somewhere between 10-15 min to start working again. After this tho I quit using it



How many people actually believe this guy?


----------



## dtaylor (Aug 2, 2020)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> PR disaster? Anonymous comments, lacking lots of relevant information. Could be the battery grip loose or other, for as vague as the comment was.



It's not anonymous, it's a forum member with a history here. It could be a defective unit or a bad battery connection, yes. But given the fact that stills can cut HQ video capture time to zero, we know that *stills alone can heat the camera up to the point of having to go into thermal protection, and can do so in the 80-90F range.*

It's not unreasonable to expect that higher temperatures or heavier use could push it over the edge just shooting stills. There's not enough data to conclude one way or the other yet. But while you hand wave his report you better prepare yourself for the possibility that reports of stills overheating are going to come in as more people get R5s and take them to Nevada, Arizona, Utah...heck, even a southern California beach.



> I prefer the real people examples where they can be seen speaking, or at least profiles tracing to real names with websites and contact info.



Does that include the people who say it's useless for video due to overheating? Because when it's those real names with websites the posts are "I prefer people in the forums, not talking heads" and "they probably work for Sony."

The level of COPE over this is amazing. Canon stumbled on what should have been an amazing, market dominating release. I think Andrew Reid at eoshd.com is rather angry and biased, yet I'm starting to agree with his conclusion. If Canon can fix this with a recall (i.e. if there's room for some type of heat sink/pipe), then freeze the line and fix it. That means a recall for R5/R6 bodies shipped but there aren't many of those so now is the time.


----------



## dtaylor (Aug 2, 2020)

PGSanta said:


> How many people actually believe this guy?



In isolation I would assume a defective unit or trolling. The problem is his report is not in isolation. Again, we know for a fact that stills shooting can put the camera into a thermal protection mode (HQ video features disabled), and that this can happen in 80-90F. Is it really hard to believe that you could get the camera to shut off with heavy shooting? Or get it to shut off in the 90-100F or 100-110F ranges?

I hope I'm wrong, I hope his unit was defective, I hope there are no thermal issues shooting stills even at 110F. But only a fool would hand wave the possibility given what we know about the camera.


----------



## PGSanta (Aug 2, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> It's not anonymous, it's a forum member with a history here.



That means nothing. Like it's difficult to sign up for any forum.



> But given the fact that stills can cut HQ video capture time to zero, we know that stills alone can heat the camera up to the point of having to go into thermal protection, and can do so in the 80-90F range.



Incorrect. The camera is not bricking, literally nobody has gotten it hot enough (even filming) that it can't be switched into 4K30, or into stills. 

The body is preventing HQ, 120, and 8k modes, but it is not "shutting down". 



> I think Andrew Reid at eoshd.com is rather angry and biased, yet I'm starting to agree with his conclusion.



Andrew Reid ... LOL.


----------



## PGSanta (Aug 2, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> In isolation I would assume a defective unit or trolling. The problem is his report is not in isolation.



It literally is.



> Again, we know for a fact that stills shooting can put the camera into a thermal protection mode (HQ video features disabled), and that this can happen in 80-90F. Is it really hard to believe that you could get the camera to shut off with heavy shooting? Or get it to shut off in the 90-100F or 100-110F ranges?



Yes. Since literally nobody has gotten it to brick yet. Nobody. Which is what it would take for stills to be shut down. 




> I hope I'm wrong...



I'm sure you do, and you're in luck.


----------



## PGSanta (Aug 2, 2020)

NorskHest said:


> I did not comment on my time spent with the camera as a a way of trolling or spreading disinformation, I am a canon shooter and i think it is insane how crazy people get with their group think. I told my experience as a something to be helpful to all those looking at purchasing this camera. If you all want to buy this thing then buy it, I thought i was going this community a solid by telling you all what went on. Most of you on this forum spend more time dreaming and bitching than shooting or living



How about providing some evidence? That'd go a long way to being received better. There is a ton of examination on the R5 going on around the web, and your information would be the first example of a new problem, and the reception to it would be much different here. 

Without any sort of evidence, your experience runs completely against everything that is available out there (and there is a lot out there), so I can't imagine why you'd be surprised at it being received with a whole lot of doubt.


----------



## Max TT (Aug 2, 2020)

PGSanta said:


> How many people actually believe this guy?





PGSanta said:


> That means nothing. Like it's difficult to sign up for any forum.



So the guy you are questioning signed up for this forum about 2 and a half years ago, he would have interacted positively several times on the forum during that time. Just to place himself here at this exact moment to lie to us about this particular issue? Lolol

Also, the member in question is no amateur, I have seen his work.

I think time will tell with this R5 and R6 debate. I think I am done with this, enjoy your units. I just hope if real widespread problems are unearthed you are just as vocal and rabid. 

Enjoy your units.


----------



## dtaylor (Aug 3, 2020)

NorskHest said:


> I did not comment on my time spent with the camera as a a way of trolling or spreading disinformation, I am a canon shooter and i think it is insane how crazy people get with their group think. I told my experience as a something to be helpful to all those looking at purchasing this camera. If you all want to buy this thing then buy it, I thought i was going this community a solid by telling you all what went on. Most of you on this forum spend more time dreaming and bitching than shooting or living



Please don't take my "trolling" comment offensively. I was merely speaking to hypotheticals. *If* there was *only one* random report of overheating then I would assume a defective R5 or *possibly* a trolling attempt. You have a history at this forum so naturally the assumption would be a defective unit and not trolling. But clearly your report is not in isolation.

I apologize for not making that more clear, and I (for one) value your report.


----------



## dtaylor (Aug 3, 2020)

PGSanta said:


> There is a ton of examination on the R5 going on around the web, and your information would be the first example of a new problem, and the reception to it would be much different here.
> 
> Without any sort of evidence, your experience runs completely against everything that is available out there (and there is a lot out there), so I can't imagine why you'd be surprised at it being received with a whole lot of doubt.



His report is not the first example of a new problem, but rather another example of a known problem. And his experience is in line with what's available out there. Stills shooting can drive HQ video record times to zero in 80-90F weather. It would be foolish to assume that stills alone could never drive the chipset to thermal shutdown, especially in hotter weather.


----------



## PGSanta (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> His report is not the first example of a new problem, but rather another example of a known problem. And his experience is in line with what's available out there. Stills shooting can drive HQ video record times to zero in 80-90F weather. It would be foolish to assume that stills alone could never drive the chipset to thermal shutdown, especially in hotter weather.



We aren't talking about HQ recording times. Stills can definitely be stud down... I mean we can place the body in an oven at 400° and that should do it.

The point is that there isn't a single piece of real evidence floating around anywhere through respected channels that the stills option is locked out after the video heat lock out. Not one.

There is also not a single piece of real evidence out there that shows that the body can shut itself out of using stills through shooting stills. Not one.

Please share with us a link to some solid piece of evidence that shows one of these, that isn't just a post on a forum, or a speculative rant from a web page owner that doesn't even have access to the camera. Just one. And I'll say I was wrong. I'm not though... so it's all good. 

We know you'll just repeat your line that the camera can't shoot 8K and HQ after extensive stills use. I'll save you some time, that doesn't support your claim.


----------



## dtaylor (Aug 3, 2020)

PGSanta said:


> The point is that there isn't a single piece of real evidence...



I love it. If Chelsea Northrup says she couldn't shoot videos after shooting stills, she's a YouTube talking head and forum reports are "real evidence." If a forum member says the camera overheated just shooting stills, he's just some dude in a forum and we need YouTube reviewers for "real evidence."

I've conceded it may be a defective unit. But pretending there's no chance it's another angle on a real problem is just massive levels of cope.



> ...floating around anywhere through respected channels that the stills option is locked out after the video heat lock out.



You would have to be clueless about basic thermodynamics to believe that stills/video shooting in 80-90F can drive the camera into thermal protection but stills alone would never, ever drive it all the way to shutdown. Maybe not. Maybe stills just don't produce enough heat to push it out of that yellow zone. But to be this mentally closed off to the possibility?



> There is also not a single piece of real evidence out there that shows that the body can shut itself out of using stills through shooting stills. Not one.



You're right, there's not one. There's actually two. I imagine this would be harder to trigger and YouTube reviewers aren't going to investigate it until one of them hits it in the field. But from what we know right now I'm expecting it won't be long until some "real evidence" reviewer hits it. 

Maybe I'm wrong. Maybe we're just talking about a couple defective units. Maybe the camera can hold the line at overheating with stills even at 100-110F. But only a fool would discount the possibility entirely given what we know.


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## PGSanta (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> I love it. If Chelsea Northrup says she couldn't shoot videos after shooting stills, she's a YouTube talking head and forum reports are "real evidence." If a forum member says the camera overheated just shooting stills, he's just some dude in a forum and we need YouTube reviewers for "real evidence."
> 
> I've conceded it may be a defective unit. But pretending there's no chance it's another angle on a real problem is just massive levels of cope.
> 
> ...




That's what I thought. Keep repeating yourself, we all know you're full of ... something... when you can't post even a single link.


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## NorskHest (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Please don't take my "trolling" comment offensively. I was merely speaking to hypotheticals. *If* there was *only one* random report of overheating then I would assume a defective R5 or *possibly* a trolling attempt. You have a history at this forum so naturally the assumption would be a defective unit and not trolling. But clearly your report is not in isolation.
> 
> I apologize for not making that more clear, and I (for one) value your report.


you can call me a troll thats fine, im not butt hurt, i just finding it incredible when youre doing something to be nice that people think youre talking shit to just talk shit or being a troll from a sony forum. i just dont want people to waste money in this covid world when life is stressed and money is tight. hope all is rad


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## vjlex (Aug 3, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> What are you on about? All I am saying is that shooting 2500 frames in 2 hours has never been an issue. You can do that even with 5DsR. It doesn‘t require 12FPS or 1200mbit/s write to card speed.
> 
> it is a reasonable expectation for a pro level body to keep up with such a task without overheating.



So you're one of those people who tries to win imaginary internet arguments by non sequiturs and strawmen.
There's no need to quote me if you're not directly addressing something I actually said.
If you don't understand the claim that someone is making, either ask for clarification or ignore it; don't proceed to make things up and argue against that.

Taking 2,500 photos in 2 hours is not at issue here. Taking '_a few thousand rounds_' of photos while '_leaning on the shutter_' to the point that a red thermometer warning light comes on, and then proceeding to lean on the shutter more and then feign surprise that the warning wasn't a bluff is the issue. Taking an excessive amount of high speed shots while moving enormous amounts of data in a compressed amount of time for extended periods is the issue. You're the one assuming that these were _'shorter bursts of 1-2, max 3_'; not me. And nowhere did the poster I was replying to state that. If you can't understand the difference between what I'm saying and what you're claiming I said, then there is nothing further to discuss.


----------



## vjlex (Aug 3, 2020)

1D4 said:


> It turns out the FM user only got a heat warning icon, and his camera turned off due to the battery dying. He said he put in a new battery and was shooting stills again (warning went away, too).


Thanks for the update. I didn't get around to following up on that thread yet. That's the kind of details that people who make these original claims are leaving out, then crying that they're being attacked by Canon worshipers when people are only trying to get the facts to make an accurate assessment of the situation.


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## dtaylor (Aug 3, 2020)

PGSanta said:


> That's what I thought. Keep repeating yourself, we all know you're full of ... something... when you can't post even a single link.



Honest question: if you're wrong and more data comes in regarding overheating with stills, how will you cope?


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 3, 2020)

vjlex said:


> So you're one of those people who tries to win imaginary internet arguments by non sequiturs and strawmen.
> There's no need to quote me if you're not directly addressing something I actually said.
> If you don't understand the claim that someone is making, either ask for clarification or ignore it; don't proceed to make things up and argue against that.
> 
> Taking 2,500 photos in 2 hours is not at issue here. Taking '_a few thousand rounds_' of photos while '_leaning on the shutter_' to the point that a red thermometer warning light comes on, and then proceeding to lean on the shutter more and then feign surprise that the warning wasn't a bluff is the issue. Taking an excessive amount of high speed shots while moving enormous amounts of data in a compressed amount of time for extended periods is the issue. You're the one assuming that these were _'shorter bursts of 1-2, max 3_'; not me. And nowhere did the poster I was replying to state that. If you can't understand the difference between what I'm saying and what you're claiming I said, then there is nothing further to discuss.


Oh, please. The poster though stated: a few thousand round were taken in a matter of few hours. shooting motorsports. Did you ever shot motorsports? I thought so...you mentioned that you have no experience shooting in bursts. Then stop pretending that you understand what you are talking about. Your argument RE DPRAW and 45Mb file size is weak..
you are obviously out of your depth here so why would we not wrap This meaningless argument up and part our ways?
nobody is arguing that R5 overheats taking still. There is an occurrence that has been reported and If true, is not something acceptable for a 5 series level body.


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## Stu_bert (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Honest question: if you're wrong and more data comes in regarding overheating with stills, how will you cope?


Take it back to Canon and tell them it is faulty according to their specification.....

The current video issues *appear* to stem from reading most of the sensor (8k) as even the HQ modes are sampling the full 8K. That's a significant amount of data which it needs to compress into a h265 format. I don't know how this compares to Canon RAW or their newer CRaw, and whether Digic assists in that like h265 or not. I just hope it (high fps stills) is not taxing it (Digic) as much as constant video, and that the overheating is primarily caused by the higher data rates and their compression (sure the rest of the system is contributing to the heat, but it's only the 8K reading which seems to push things over)...

I can see for some sports, if you're watching a race from various positions and with numerous competitors then you're going to fire off a lot of shots - if you're panning and blurring the background then that is the technique, no? When I have been lucky enough to go on Safari, there have been times where for a couple of hours, it has been teeming with wildlife and the interaction has been incredible. I am sure I have rattled off many shots trying to capture the "action".

With the R5, I doubt many people have had their cameras long enough to do such events, in the coming days and weeks we will find out if this is an unusual occurrence or indeed if there is a threshold for stills. We now know that there could be the potential, and when people's R5 arrives if that user-case is a possibility for them, then they need to try it out and see, or at least be mindful of the fact and take some precaution... On that basis alone, the information is useful (thanks *NorskHest). *I'm sure his friend is now checking out their R5 further and will decide for them if they need to seek Canon's assistance or not.

For me, when mine arrives, if it couldn't do the shooting I want to do in reasonable conditions (predominantly stills) without hampering me then I think I would go back to Canon and ask them to fix or refund. I've not seen any caveats from Canon on stills shooting (I don't recall there ever being such a warning on any body I've owned from them). I agree that the R5 is pushing more data around the system but it's these capabilities which has attracted me to it. Whether my opinion would change if I found out I had to lower it to 10fps vs 12fps constant use I don't know. It would just make me nervous on the occasions where I use it that it would be possible to push it into shutdown.... Having said that, I did have the infamous 1Ds MK III (second hand) and lived with the limitations...

At the end of the day, as many people have said, it's a personal choice. Does the R5 work or not work for what you want it to do. People can beg to differ, sure, but ultimately you're the one paying so you get to chose. And no offence to anyone here, but it doesnt matter how much I might get berated for any decision I may make in future, it's not saying anything about any decision you make. It would be great if people could just respect each other's decisions.


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## CvH (Aug 3, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> Oh, please. The poster though stated: a few thousand round were taken in a matter of few hours. shooting motorsports. Did you ever shot motorsports? I thought so...you mentioned that you have no experience shooting in bursts. Then stop pretending that you understand what you are talking about. Your argument RE DPRAW and 45Mb file size is weak..
> you are obviously out of your depth here so why would we not wrap This meaningless argument up and part our ways?
> nobody is arguing that R5 overheats taking still. There is an occurrence that has been reported and If true, is not something acceptable for a 5 series level body.



Agree. The R5 is the top of the line mirrorless from Canon. It targets the pros and serious amateurs. It ought to able to perform at its specifications (12/20fps) all day in extreme conditions.


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## vjlex (Aug 3, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> why would we not wrap This meaningless argument up and part our ways?


The only true, meaningful, or logical thing you've said. I agree. See ya!


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## HarryFilm (Aug 3, 2020)

padam said:


> These figures all seem fine to me (4K normal quality is probably good enough for many already), especially with the external recorder.
> It is the cooldown period, which is the real problem, maybe they can make tweak that a little bit with software.
> 
> If that Tilta cooling kit or something like that actually works in practise (even though it looks quite ridiculous and probably quite loud when it works) they might sell quite a few of those.
> ...




I am quite sure based upon what I've done with the Sony A7s2, that instead of the Tilta, I would rather use a finely bladed multi-finned computer-CPU-oriented COPPER heat sink with a fan attached to where the flip-out live-view monitor normally goes on the Canon R5.

The Tilta sounds good on paper, but it looks faaaaar too plasticky to me for it to make any major difference in heat removal. For that, you need the ACTUAL MASS of a solid or well-finned thermal-transfer efficient block of METAL like solid copper or aluminum!

For less than $50 I am pretty sure the copper block CPU heat sink will perform much better. If you REALLY want to get fancy, I can also suggest putting a higher-end $150 water block cooler as an insert and I will bet you there will be NO OVERHEATING ISSUES on the Canon R5! You just put the water block re-condensation and/or radiator unit on the left side of a Camera Cage to keep it out of the way of the R5 camera controls. Another way is to use an EXTERNAL BATTERY (i.e. a long-battery-life external Anton Bauer battery system) and blow COOL AIR into the empty R5 battery compartment from a cooling fan to remove heat that way!

SOMEONE will soon enough figure out the BEST WAY to keep the R5 cool! Again, those multiple flexible blue-gel-based cooling pads bought from your local Dollar Store that have been kept in an ice cooler for a few hours and applied/wrapped about the bottom and back of the R5 camera within a thin cloth sack SHOULD ALSO do the trick. Just swap the cooling gel pads out with newly cold ones when they start getting excessively warm. That's the cheapest solution at about $25 US for multiple gel-based cooling pads!

V


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## SteveC (Aug 3, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> I am quite sure based upon what I've done with the Sony A7s2, that instead of the Tilta, I would rather use a finely bladed multi-finned computer-CPU-oriented COPPER heat sink with a fan attached to where the flip-out live-view monitor normally goes on the Canon R5.
> 
> The Tilta sounds good on paper, but it looks faaaaar too plasticky to me for it to make any major difference in heat removal. For that, you need the ACTUAL MASS of a solid or well-finned thermal-transfer efficient block of METAL like solid copper or aluminum!
> 
> ...



Apparently the heat doesn't even get from the inside of the camera, to its surface, except very slowly. So putting a bunch of cooling on the surface won't do any good. Something needs to be done inside the camera to get the heat to the surface of the camera (apparently the bottom plate is the most likely place).


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## HarryFilm (Aug 3, 2020)

SteveC said:


> Apparently the heat doesn't even get from the inside of the camera, to its surface, except very slowly. So putting a bunch of cooling on the surface won't do any good. Something needs to be done inside the camera to get the heat to the surface of the camera (apparently the bottom plate is the most likely place).



The battery compartment should work best then! Somebody can always put in a radiator unit inside of a DUMMY BATTERY and wick away heat through the magnesium interior body compartment. All you need is a 5 to 10 degrees Celcius temperature differential ANYWHERE on the camera body to start wicking away heat at enough of a rate that even with that outer grippy covering, the heat will MOVE FAST ENOUGH that overheating may no longer be an issue.

It SOUNDS LIKE THEN, someone could install a tiny fan and copper heat sink INSIDE the battery compartment (i.e. and NOT short the battery leads!) using the insides of a dummy battery assembly to wick away heat. Maybe even use a tiny water block assembly inside of a dummy battery to move heat OUT of the battery compartment by forced capillary action! Again, so long there's at AT LEAST five to 10 degrees celcius difference, the heat will start moving QUICKLY through the camera to the coolest parts!

ANOTHER OPTION is for Canon or SIGMA to make a CUSTOM Battery Grip that already has a full built-in radiator fan/liquid cooling/cappilary action cooling system assembly built-in! If the temperature difference is increased to around 15 degrees celcius within the battery grip, then the laws of thermodynamics applies and heat WILL ABSOLUTELY MOVE from the camera to the grip no matter what!

V


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## SteveC (Aug 3, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> The battery compartment should work best then! Somebody can always put in a radiator unit inside of a DUMMY BATTERY and wick away heat through the magnesium interior body compartment. All you need is a 5 to 10 degrees Celcius temperature differential ANYWHERE on the camera body to start wicking away heat at enough of a rate that even with that outer grippy covering, the heat will MOVE FAST ENOUGH that overheating may no longer be an issue.
> 
> It SOUNDS LIKE THEN, someone could install a tiny fan and copper heat sink INSIDE the battery compartment (i.e. and NOT short the battery leads!) using the insides of a dummy battery assembly to wick away heat. Maybe even use a tiny water block assembly inside of a dummy battery to move heat OUT of the battery compartment by forced capillary action! Again, so long there's at AT LEAST five to 10 degrees celcius difference, the heat will start moving QUICKLY through the camera to the coolest parts!
> 
> ...



I did read a description of an anecdote that someone got it to cool much faster by removing the battery and card, and leaving the door open. Supposedly two minutes of cooling returned one minute of heating-affected video time. Whether that will actually turn out to be true in general is yet to be seen.


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## SecureGSM (Aug 3, 2020)

SteveC said:


> Apparently the heat doesn't even get from the inside of the camera, to its surface, except very slowly. So putting a bunch of cooling on the surface won't do any good. Something needs to be done inside the camera to get the heat to the surface of the camera (apparently the bottom plate is the most likely place).


i read that it took 2 hours for camera to cool down.. that is insane.. a large pot of boiling water takes faster to cool down to room temperatures than that. ...
not very probable..
I wonder if somehow temperature sensing algorithm is skewed or temperature sensor is not returning true values..? it just does not make any sense ..


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## kathelegend (Aug 3, 2020)

Chaitanya said:


> Depending on weather, that 4k120 can be really useful for recording behaviour of animals which lasts couple of seconds on another note living in India other than Dec-Jan dont see R5 being a useful tool in field for video above 4k30.


Totally Agree!!!. It might be impossible to shoot in summer with temperatures reading 45 degrees


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## Viggo (Aug 3, 2020)

Are there more than one report about it shutting down or even warns about heat when shooting stills? I’m not really into video, but I’m often using my camera in pretty extreme warm or cold temperatures. I don’t want to keep bringing up the issue, but I think most will agree that overheating while shooting stills is unacceptable.


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## koenkooi (Aug 3, 2020)

Viggo said:


> Are there more than one report about it shutting down or even warns about heat when shooting stills? I’m not really into video, but I’m often using my camera in pretty extreme warm or cold temperatures. I don’t want to keep bringing up the issue, but I think most will agree that overheating while shooting stills is unacceptable.



I've seen one report here from @NorskHest and one on fredmiranda. The fredmiranda one was about an 'old' LP-E6N (non-H) getting really hot and triggering the overheating warning. I'm leaning towards 'bad battery' on that one.
We're less than a week in from first delivery, so I don't think we can say anything either way yet, but 10000000000000000:2 ratio of video:stills overheating reports seems to be promising.


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## arbitrage (Aug 3, 2020)

I certainly don't discount the overheating in stills report here nor the one on FM. But I wish more details would be given to both of them. I had to press the guy on FM a lot just to try to get a straight story if the camera actually shut down and wouldn't allow stills shooting or if the battery had just died. Even then, his answer was confusing and I still don't understand if he was immediately able to replace the maybe dead? battery (which was super hot) and keep shooting or not? The report in this thread is also confusing if he was able to keep going right after or not? I'm also confused with the FM report of what icon he got? On this report it was the red, rounded-corner rectangle with the thermometer that we've seen on all the 8K overheating videos. But on the FM thread he mentions "a flame" so was that just a battery warning because the battery was getting so hot (which tends to point more towards a bad battery)?? 

What I find strange, and what leads me to believe that neither of these reports are going to be regular occurrences, is that even though we know that shooting stills can bring the camera to overheat warning and stop you from shooting 8K, 4K120 and 4KHQ, even then the camera can switch back to 4K or 1080 and shoot forever. So I just don't see how the camera would stop shooting stills even if stills shooting brought it to the heat level of shutting down 8K. We know just leaving the camera on and doing nothing can drop the 8K limit to zero, but people are still able to shoot stills and lower quality 4K etc. When the overheating icon comes on and the counter goes to zero, the camera puts up that black screen with message about shutting down. But as we've seen in Gerald's 3hr livestream, the camera doesn't lock you out of the menus. He was able to go over and enter the menus and switch down the video quality and continue on. And even though he didn't test it, I'm fairly certain he could have started shooting stills also at that point.

I'd be interested to hear from both the guy on this thread and Andrew at FM if they got that same black screen message and if they were still able to go into the menus? If they could still access the menus then could they not just keep firing some stills? All seems very odd to me and again I think must be an uncommon (possible defect in camera or battery) issue and shouldn't be a normal issue R5 owners are going to have to worry about.


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## Nathan Phillips (Aug 3, 2020)

I love canon products, but this is an issue.

Scenario 1:
Conducted a wedding (video) and only had maybe 4 points throughout the day where I was fortunate enough to get a few minutes of 4K120 and 4K60. The weather was not hot at all either. Roughly 70-75 all day. I also shot probably 95% of the footage in 1080 24/60 throughout the day.

Scenario 2:
2 hour photoshoot with roughly 150 RAW photos shot and a max of 1 minute of 4k120 which was within the first 30 minutes of the shoot. Towards the end I was not able to get anymore 4K60 or 120. Camera was overheated from the shoot. The weather was also no more than 73F degrees.

This is an issue...


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## TomR (Aug 3, 2020)

Nathan Phillips said:


> I love canon products, but this is an issue.
> 
> Scenario 1:
> Conducted a wedding (video) and only had maybe 4 points throughout the day where I was fortunate enough to get a few minutes of 4K120 and 4K60. The weather was not hot at all either. Roughly 70-75 all day. I also shot probably 95% of the footage in 1080 24/60 throughout the day.
> ...



Some people on this forum will tell you your testing is not scientific and therefore invalid. 

the people who actually do this for a living will stay away from this camera until these issues are fixed.

thank you for posting these real world scenarios.


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## dtaylor (Aug 3, 2020)

arbitrage said:


> What I find strange, and what leads me to believe that neither of these reports are going to be regular occurrences, is that even though we know that shooting stills can bring the camera to overheat warning and stop you from shooting 8K, 4K120 and 4KHQ, even then the camera can switch back to 4K or 1080 and shoot forever. So I just don't see how the camera would stop shooting stills even if stills shooting brought it to the heat level of shutting down 8K.



It all depends on how much heat is being generated shooting stills and how fast that heat can be shed to the environment. Those will vary with shooting rate and ambient temperature. To be clear: *there may not be any problem with stills.* The FM report may be a bad battery, the report here may be an off spec unit. I just think it's ridiculous that people hand wave the very possibility given what we know.


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## PGSanta (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> It all depends on how much heat is being generated shooting stills and how fast that heat can be shed to the environment. Those will vary with shooting rate and ambient temperature. To be clear: *there may not be any problem with stills.* The FM report may be a bad battery, the report here may be an off spec unit. I just think it's ridiculous that people hand wave the very possibility given what we know.


They wave them off because not all information is equal. The second someone gives more data than “I read on a forum that stills causes a shut down”, more credence should be given. Until then, rational people will continue to acknowledge the cameras real limitations and problems without constantly posting about how we all should accept what’s “possible”.


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## Nathan Phillips (Aug 3, 2020)

TomR said:


> Some people on this forum will tell you your testing is not scientific and therefore invalid.
> 
> the people who actually do this for a living will stay away from this camera until these issues are fixed.
> 
> thank you for posting these real world scenarios.


Absolutely and thank you for the response. I’m a bit of a camera junkie. This was a tough lesson to learn. My second body arrives today, but I still don’t think it will make a huge difference. Maybe for the private shoots that are no longer than a few hours, but for weddings (video) definitely an issue. And a lot of other jobs are very similar to the workflow of weddings. Record record record....


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## PGSanta (Aug 3, 2020)

Nathan Phillips said:


> I love canon products, but this is an issue.
> 
> Scenario 1:
> Conducted a wedding (video) and only had maybe 4 points throughout the day where I was fortunate enough to get a few minutes of 4K120 and 4K60. The weather was not hot at all either. Roughly 70-75 all day. I also shot probably 95% of the footage in 1080 24/60 throughout the day.
> ...


It is. Neither of these bodies is shaping up to be a good 50/50 camera.


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## PGSanta (Aug 3, 2020)

TomR said:


> Some people on this forum will tell you your testing is not scientific and therefore invalid.
> 
> the people who actually do this for a living will stay away from this camera until these issues are fixed.
> 
> thank you for posting these real world scenarios.


If the camera doesn’t work for your workflow, it doesn’t work for your workflow. Scientific method adhered to or not.


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## Nathan Phillips (Aug 3, 2020)

PGSanta said:


> It is. Neither of these bodies is shaping up to be a good 50/50 camera.


The photo side is amazing honestly. Video is the only concern. I did come across one issue though. Same issue the EOS R had when shooting with strobes. I had to be in mechanical shutter to avoid the white line at the bottom or top of the frame. I can’t remember if this is just how it is, or if it’s just a simple firmware fix on syncing the shutter to the strobe properly. 


PGSanta said:


> It is. Neither of these bodies is shaping up to be a good 50/50 camera.


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## Nathan Phillips (Aug 3, 2020)

PGSanta said:


> If the camera doesn’t work for your workflow, it doesn’t work for your workflow. Scientific method adhered to or not.


i don’t see it working for a lot of video related workflows. Have you shot with it?


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## PGSanta (Aug 3, 2020)

Nathan Phillips said:


> i don’t see it working for a lot of video related workflows. Have you shot with it?


I have briefly, but I’m also not a wedding photographer, nor am I much of a hybrid shooter. I’m one of those 99.9% stills guys, and for my use, it’s a great body. In playing with the video settings, I can see how it simply might not meet the needs of someone that needs more flexibility.


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## dtaylor (Aug 4, 2020)

PGSanta said:


> They wave them off because not all information is equal. The second someone gives more data than “I read on a forum that stills causes a shut down”, more credence should be given.



NorskHest gave plenty of information in this thread. And he was responsive to questions, at least until people wanted to insult him to get him to be quite because God forbid he challenge a narrative.


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## vjlex (Aug 4, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> NorskHest gave plenty of information in this thread. And he was responsive to questions, at least until people wanted to insult him to get him to be quite because God forbid he challenge a narrative.


Yes, that's exactly what happened: people tried to get _less_ information out of him. 

I think most people genuinely interested in this camera can acknowledge that there _may_ be some problems. But some people are more willing to jump to that conclusion based on incomplete or ambiguous reports. I don't think anyone is asking for less information or reporting, just more reporting of *facts* and not conjecture and hyperbole.


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## chrisgibbs (Aug 4, 2020)

From Hugh Brownstone's YouTube Page reference he and Dan Watson's overheating A7Rlll's. Thought it may be of interest re the R5. Note the top comment about how he and Dan using an older, less efficient codec. *Then note the engineers reply.*

My take, for what its worth, the thermal shutdown limiter in the R5 (like the older Sony A7Rll) is probably set too conservatively, and the R5 is fighting with a relatively *inefficient* (from the processors perspective) Codec.

There's hope both issues can be resolved in firmware, just as Sony have done with some of their older 4K MILC's.



ree Blind Men and An Elephant Productions
Three Blind Men and An Elephant Productions
3 hours ago
NEW NOTE: "Guy With Camera" says he noticed that only Dan Watson and I shot using the older XAVC-S codec. Thoughts welcome, though forgive me if I no longer respond directly. I can't keep up! 


REPLY





Thomas Breithaupt1 day ago (edited)
Hugh: I am an Electrical Engineer of 30+ years designing electronics for the automotive world which must maintain operation (NO shutdown) to 85C (185F) and without permanent damage over 100C (212F). The trunk of any car in Phoenix, Houston, or Florida (where I live) will easily exceed 140F for 6 months of the year. I contacted Dan and expressed my concerns with some test errors he made, his interpretations regarding heating/damaging of electronics in general, plus other variables reviewers continue to miss. It looks like you are trying to make some honest assessments here but there are a multitude of variables here that you (and others) are still missing. I don’t think Dan took my suggestions well so I will try you. As you noted, and I pointed out to Dan, internal heat generation (radiation) is outbound as well as thermal absorption (inbound). There are actually THREE thermal tests that must be made to determine if the camera is a net “source” or a “sink”; (1) standard room temp of 23C (73F), (2) outdoor/hi-temp under “sun-load”, but also CRITICAL is (3) which is simply outdoor/hi-temp in the shade! This shade reference is CRITICAL since this test will tell you if the thermal failure is absorption (inbound) vs. radiation (outbound) induced. You MUST do this third test or you cannot make ANY conclusions on thermal propagation of the camera. No reviewer is understanding this point since they are not Engineers. I get that but then they extrapolate conclusions which are simply wrong – some favoring Sony and Canon and some against both brands. Until you have a FLIR type camera showing thermal mapping of the body (AND the body/lens SYSTEM), you really don’t have any idea where the heat source/problem area is located. It is simply assumed to be worst on the back side since this is what Photographers look at all the time. It may be on the bottom or on the sides – no one knows until you look for it at least with some JK type thermocouples. There are also other possible heating variables at work here. Is the IBIS turned on? There are tiny servos running all the time, even at still, and this takes power for the processor and creates heat in the circuits and battery, small but real – they all accumulate. Next, I see all kinds of lenses used in tests. Do they have stabilization? Some do, some don’t, but this is another possible drain and thus heat. Next are the lenses plastic or metal cased? A metal lens might be a net sink wicking away heat from the body, but might be a source in the sun – no one knows. Until you know the primary heat propagation source and direction (there’s that shade test again!) you don’t know if the lens is helping or hurting. Now…black is not always a bad color for heat.. but …hold that thought (LOL) … black is better color if you know you are in a ‘sink’ condition where you want the device to radiate away heat but is usually bad if you are often in a sunny condition (the white lens story helps here). That is why heatsinks on the back of electronics out of sight are normally black. But, Dan placed his cameras on a black trampoline which was TERRIBLE since this type of surface was likely 15-20F hotter than ambient air temp due to UV absorption. Try setting a white and black T-shirt in the sun and you will see 20+ hotter on a black shirt. He set the cameras on mini-tripods but STILL sat them on top of a black surface maybe 6 inches above a black, heat generating (black) “baking” surface – WRONG! As for damaging levels of heat, virtually any IC made today can handle a case junction temperature over 100-125C. As you move away from the chip things cool off but in general, as long as they hold below 85C, ZERO permanent damage should occur! Until you get inside the camera case with some thermocouple probes, no one really knows if damage is happening. I doubt anything is happening to the electronics but MUCH more likely to tiny, PLASTIC parts that use ABS plastics with limited nylon injection which tend to warp over time above 85C if under strain. Also, the sensitive lubrication oils probably start to break down if the internal camera case temps push much past about 60C. And finally, humidity has NO influence on thermal heating, inbound or outbound for electronics. People assume this since human bodies are sense increased discomfort from at high Dew Points – ‘humidity’ is simply a mathematically derived term. In summary, until a DETAILED Engineer-grade, comparative test addressing sun loads, shade loads, lens variables, and operating variables, the array of tests I have seen so far mean very little, positive or negative for any brand.


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## VictraBarca (Aug 5, 2020)

Nathan Phillips said:


> I love canon products, but this is an issue.
> 
> Scenario 1:
> Conducted a wedding (video) and only had maybe 4 points throughout the day where I was fortunate enough to get a few minutes of 4K120 and 4K60. The weather was not hot at all either. Roughly 70-75 all day. I also shot probably 95% of the footage in 1080 24/60 throughout the day.
> ...



Thank you. Honestly thank you. I'm sick of this asinine defending. I don't know why stories like this keep getting buried beneath, "The camera won't be bricked for stills" or "If you need shoot an entire wedding in 4K or 8K then this isn't the camera for you." I don't shoot weddings, but this is similar to my use case. If this camera isn't for someone like you then who is it for? To people cheering it as a stills camera, it isn't. The R6 does all of the stills that the R5 does. $1500 gets you the high end video and MP count. You can't ignore the video. The 5D series stands for something and means something. Stop brushing aside the issues. Yes, Canon gave limits. BUT if shooting stills eats into record time like this that is the problem. Nobody is talking about your 8K strawman argument.


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## BeenThere (Aug 5, 2020)

VictraBarca said:


> Thank you. Honestly thank you. I'm sick of this asinine defending. I don't know why stories like this keep getting buried beneath, "The camera won't be bricked for stills" or "If you need shoot an entire wedding in 4K or 8K then this isn't the camera for you." I don't shoot weddings, but this is similar to my use case. If this camera isn't for someone like you then who is it for? To people cheering it as a stills camera, it isn't. The R6 does all of the stills that the R5 does. $1500 gets you the high end video and MP count. You can't ignore the video. The 5D series stands for something and means something. Stop brushing aside the issues. Yes, Canon gave limits. BUT if shooting stills eats into record time like this that is the problem. Nobody is talking about your 8K strawman argument.


i see you found an outlet for your moral outrage.


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## VictraBarca (Aug 5, 2020)

BeenThere said:


> i see you found an outlet for your moral outrage.


What is moral about it? I don't get your comment.


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## Nathan Phillips (Aug 5, 2020)

VictraBarca said:


> Thank you. Honestly thank you. I'm sick of this asinine defending. I don't know why stories like this keep getting buried beneath, "The camera won't be bricked for stills" or "If you need shoot an entire wedding in 4K or 8K then this isn't the camera for you." I don't shoot weddings, but this is similar to my use case. If this camera isn't for someone like you then who is it for? To people cheering it as a stills camera, it isn't. The R6 does all of the stills that the R5 does. $1500 gets you the high end video and MP count. You can't ignore the video. The 5D series stands for something and means something. Stop brushing aside the issues. Yes, Canon gave limits. BUT if shooting stills eats into record time like this that is the problem. Nobody is talking about your 8K strawman argument.


Absolutely  it’s hard to accurately test this camera or less you’re doing a real world project. Unfortunately that’s dangerous, but then again you can always resort to 1080/60 and 24. I did a test with my 1DX II and a 24-70 f/2.8 II at 4K/60 and my EOS R with my RF 28-70 f/2 at 1080/60... the 1080 was better.

I did a few more tests myself along with what Gerald Undone did with the Atomos on the R5. I was fortunate enough to get the same results via the atomos. Thank god...

Using the Atomos at 4K60 seemed to go a significant amount longer externally only. I was able to get over an hour of continuous recording. I actually just turned it off myself due to the 1TB SSD filling up first. My heat timer in the camera went down very very slowly, although it was still hot, but not as hot recording internally. R5 was at a big fat red zero on the heat indicator for over 10 minutes while the atomos was recording strong still. So there is a work around for weddings videographers. Especially since I won’t be shooting all day in 4K60.

My average shooting for a wedding is:
4K24 - 70% (Hoping for HQ mode)
4K60 - 20%
4K120 - 8%
8K24 - 2%

I have two bodies, so this should be possible now.


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## Chris.Chapterten (Aug 5, 2020)

Nathan Phillips said:


> Absolutely  it’s hard to accurately test this camera or less you’re doing a real world project. Unfortunately that’s dangerous, but then again you can always resort to 1080/60 and 24. I did a test with my 1DX II and a 24-70 f/2.8 II at 4K/60 and my EOS R with my RF 28-70 f/2 at 1080/60... the 1080 was better.
> 
> I did a few more tests myself along with what Gerald Undone did with the Atomos on the R5. I was fortunate enough to get the same results via the atomos. Thank god...
> 
> ...


Glad to hear it should hopefully work out for you!


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## SecureGSM (Aug 5, 2020)

Nathan Phillips said:


> The photo side is amazing honestly. Video is the only concern. I did come across one issue though. *Same issue the EOS R had when shooting with strobes. I had to be in mechanical shutter to avoid the white line at the bottom or top of the frame.* I can’t remember if this is just how it is, or if it’s just a simple firmware fix on syncing the shutter to the strobe properly.


yup, that is normal. as described in the R5 user manual. electronic shutter is not suitable for flash photography.


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## arthurbikemad (Aug 5, 2020)

The R5 has certainly caused a stir. I questioned a guy about over heating in stills mode, I chat to CPS often, they have assured me that canon have tested the R5 to death for stills, quote "it DOES NOT overheat", he went on to say "IF the camera was to shut down in stills shooting from heat its faulty and those users should seek a replacement", given that the guy I spoke to was unable to tell me what kind of battery he was using I call BS on his claims, to a point I think he just wants to cause confusion online, some people thrive on it, sad but true.

Cant wait to get my pre order.

Edit, I get the video heat issue, I mean if your a pro video tog how do you trust such a device, how do you plan to shoot those risky modes as part of a workflow, in the light of that I question why did they include them, I guess if you want to use such modes you accept the limitations and shoot around them, not a situation I'd enjoy.


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## Nathan Phillips (Aug 5, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> yup, that is normal. as described in the R5 user manual. electronic shutter is not suitable for flash photography.


 might have to break that brick of a manual out and read it. Lol


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## Nathan Phillips (Aug 5, 2020)

arthurbikemad said:


> The R5 has certainly caused a stir. I questioned a guy about over heating in stills mode, I chat to CPS often, they have assured me that canon have tested the R5 to death for stills, quote "it DOES NOT overheat", he went on to say "IF the camera was to shut down in stills shooting from heat its faulty and those users should seek a replacement", given that the guy I spoke to was unable to tell me what kind of battery he was using I call BS on his claims, to a point I think he just wants to cause confusion online, some people thrive on it, sad but true.
> 
> Cant wait to get my pre order.


Still mode does not overheat, but definitely contributes to overheating when entering video for 4KHQ, 4K high frame rates and all the way up to 8K. I shot a photoshoot for 2 hours (stills) and when I did 4K120, 30 minutes into the shoot, I was only given 5 minutes. Towards the end of the shoot I went back to 4K120 and it was at zero.


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## BeenThere (Aug 5, 2020)

VictraBarca said:


> What is moral about it? I don't get your comment.


First time posting with a comment like yours smacks of trolling.


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## SteveC (Aug 5, 2020)

Nathan Phillips said:


> might have to break that brick of a manual out and read it. Lol



I wouldn't expect the brick of a dead tree manual to be of any use. Mine is still in the wrapper. Two thirds of it is languages you likely don't read (and even if you did, they'd be redundant), the other third is greatly cut down and is missing a lot of stuff. I'd download and read the PDF. (I would like to see Canon print the whole manual in ONE language; it probably wouldn't be much bulkier.)

Whoever made the dead tree manual for one of my cameras (I don't recall which one) chopped out half of the instructions for setting up a custom white balance, and that wasn't obvious. I only found out about the missing steps when I read the PDF version.


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