# Canon EOS M Specs



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jul 22, 2012)

```
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<strong>Canon EOS M Specifications


</strong>The Canon EOS M that launches tomorrow will have the following specifications. Beyond the camera, the system will launch with 2 lenses, the EF-M 22 f/2 STM & EF-M 18-55 IS. It will also launch with a new flash, the EX 90 and an EF lens adaptor.</p>
<ul>
<li>18mp APS-C</li>
<li>DIGIC V</li>
<li>ISO 100-12800 (25,600 Expansion)</li>
<li>3″ Touchscreen 1.04million pixels</li>
<li>Phase & Contrast AF</li>
<li>Video Servo AF</li>
<li>1920×1080 Video 30p/25p/24p</li>
<li>1280×720 Video 60p/50p</li>
<li>MPEG-4, AVC/H.264</li>
<li>SD Card</li>
<li>Adaptor at launch for EF lenses</li>
</ul>
<div><strong>Additional specs from [<a href="http://digicame-info.com/2012/07/eos-m-1.html" target="_blank">DCI</a>]</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Hand-held Twilight mode, to help with long exposures in low light.</li>
<li>Multi-shot noise reduction function that helps reduce the noise by combining four images.</li>
<li>The usual creative filters</li>
<li>HDR mode to synthesize three different exposures</li>
<li>Camera size: 66.5mm (width) 108.6mm (height) x 32.3mm (depth)</li>
<li>The weight (body only) 262g, (including battery and memory card) 298g</li>
</ul>
</div>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


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## ro_n (Jul 22, 2012)

So it's really APS-C. Nice!


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## albron00 (Jul 22, 2012)

little bit more chili sauce.....
canon, you can do it


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## Haydn1971 (Jul 22, 2012)

Go on Canon... Loss leader pricing... £300 for body, £400 with 22mm prime ! You can do it !


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## Haydn1971 (Jul 22, 2012)

Who will be first to post a piccie of this hooked on the back of a 800mm prime ? Extra kudos for getting on the back of a 1200mm !


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## DzPhotography (Jul 22, 2012)

Seems like I want one 8)


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## mws (Jul 22, 2012)

Any word on pricing? Or the system "roadmap" Canon had mentioned?


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## Gothmoth (Jul 22, 2012)

Haydn1971 said:


> Who will be first to post a piccie of this hooked on the back of a 800mm prime ? Extra kudos for getting on the back of a 1200mm !




why not....


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## Gothmoth (Jul 22, 2012)

mws said:


> Any word on pricing? Or the system "roadmap" Canon had mentioned?



i guess they will tell us tomorrow. :

the price.. look at the specs.. i think it will be in the same league, a bit below, a 650D.


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## steliosk (Jul 22, 2012)

as expected
nothing revolutionary

They took 
- the same sensor from 7D 60D 600D 650D (same tech anyway) while others have upgraded to 24mpixels with fixed banding issues and dynamic range.
- same proccesor from 650D
- same touch screen from 650D
all combined together..

just another EXPENSIVE gadget toy
no need to buy unless you're a pocket-size maniac


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## Lee Jay (Jul 22, 2012)

So, it's a T4i that's been repackaged and had the following features removed:

EF lens mount
Viewfinder
Tilt-swivel LCD
Control wheel
Flash

A T4i body-only goes for $849. This thing should go for perhaps $300 less given the features that have been removed.


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## Lee Jay (Jul 22, 2012)

steliosk said:


> no need to buy unless you're a pocket-size maniac



If it were pocket-sized, then it would be interesting.


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## Chewy734 (Jul 22, 2012)

I think the system looks pretty intriguing... the main concern is the price. Seeing Canon's prices on new lenses and bodies lately, I wouldn't be surprised if it was pricier than the Nikon 1.


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## Gothmoth (Jul 22, 2012)

Chewy734 said:


> I think the system looks pretty intriguing... the main concern is the price. Seeing Canon's prices on new lenses and bodies lately, I wouldn't be surprised if it was pricier than the Nikon 1.



it´s sure cheaper to build then a rebel.
but that does not mean canon could not price it higher.

i only hope canon shows some common sense and does not want a premium for a smaller package.


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## FunPhotons (Jul 22, 2012)

Looks interesting. I wouldn't mind a backup APC-C body, and I don't want or need to shell out for a 7D. With this I get a trimmed down small camera that I can also use as a wildlife shooter with the focal length extending crop factor, assuming it can really handle the longer L lenses.


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 22, 2012)

FunPhotons said:


> ... I can also use as a wildlife shooter with the focal length extending crop factor, assuming it can really handle the longer L lenses.



I'm sure it can 'handle' them. I'm not at all sure it will focus fast enough to be a good wildlife camera.


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## simonxu11 (Jul 22, 2012)

Just hope the phase AF will be faster than the 650D. 
The biggest selling point is able to take ef lenses, nothing else better than others.


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## Gothmoth (Jul 22, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> I'm sure it can 'handle' them. I'm not at all sure it will focus fast enough to be a good wildlife camera.



don´t you think the AF will be as good as 5 year old cameras who do wildlife shots pretty well?

and for the handling.. i advice a tripod for longer lenses with a nice wimberley head.


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## caruser (Jul 22, 2012)

If it's reasonably cheap I can see myself getting one with the 22mm and the EF-adapter to fill the gap between phone and DSLR. Otherwise I'll just get the 40mm for the DSLR ;-)


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## SambalOelek (Jul 22, 2012)

Gothmoth said:


> don´t you think the AF will be as good as 5 year old cameras who do wildlife shots pretty well?



Are you referring to five year old cameras such as the 1D III or the 40D? If so, my answer would have to be a resounding "heck, no!"


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## baronng (Jul 22, 2012)

I want to know the AF performance of using EF lens via the adaptor~~~


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## FunPhotons (Jul 22, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> FunPhotons said:
> 
> 
> > ... I can also use as a wildlife shooter with the focal length extending crop factor, assuming it can really handle the longer L lenses.
> ...



Somebody mentioned battery life. In addition I can imagine other restrictions, such as will they work with extenders.

As for focus speed yes it will obviously/probably be a mediocre wildlife cam, but I don't want the expense and size of a real setup, just something I can use to have fun with and squeeze a few shots off.


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## bainsybike (Jul 22, 2012)

I'd like to know whether the new EF-M lenses will fit on a DSLR. The 22mm F2 would be great on a crop body.


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## lol (Jul 22, 2012)

I'm wondering if this would make a good astrophotography camera taking over the cheaper DSLR models. As long as they left a USB socket on the body and it can be fully controlled by EOS Utilities. No mirror slap to worry about, and less weight too.


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## c.d.embrey (Jul 22, 2012)

About the size and weight of a Sony NEX 5n.

Here's the specs:
Canon - 108.6mm x 66.5mm x 32.3mm, 298 grams with battery and memory card
Sony - 110.8mm x 58.8mm x 38.2mm, 269 grams with battery and memory card

The NEX 5n sells for $599.99 without lens and $699.99 with 18-55mm lens. We will find out Canon's prices tomorrow.

Either the EF 85mm f/1.8 (425 grams) or EF 100 f/2.0 (460 grams) would be a good combination with the EF M. Add the EM 22mm f/2.0 and I'd have all the lenses I'd need. YMMV


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## Gothmoth (Jul 22, 2012)

SambalOelek said:


> Gothmoth said:
> 
> 
> > don´t you think the AF will be as good as 5 year old cameras who do wildlife shots pretty well?
> ...



yeah i wonder too how they could make good images in the past.....

to be honest i have not touched the hybrid AF in the 650D yet.


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## marekjoz (Jul 22, 2012)

It's interesting how many photos this toy can do on one battery. Assuming it's pocket size, the battery won't be big. It will run in live view mode for all the time and if you put bigger EF lens onto it, the same battery has to run AF and sometimes IS as well.


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## marekjoz (Jul 22, 2012)

Is it to be higher than weider? "Camera size: 66.5mm (width) 108.6mm (height) x 32.3mm (depth)" Those dimensions refer to the portrait mode?


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## Chewy734 (Jul 22, 2012)

So, what time tomorrow are we expecting the Canon press release?


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## itsnotmeyouknow (Jul 22, 2012)

marekjoz said:


> It's interesting how many photos this toy can do on one battery. Assuming it's pocket size, the battery won't be big. It will run in live view mode for all the time and if you put bigger EF lens onto it, the same battery has to run AF and sometimes IS as well.



Don't know how it compares to the size of the Pentax K-01, but the K-01 uses the same battery as the medium format Pentax 645D, so it's possible it might take the same battery as the 650d/T4i


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## marekjoz (Jul 22, 2012)

itsnotmeyouknow said:


> marekjoz said:
> 
> 
> > It's interesting how many photos this toy can do on one battery. Assuming it's pocket size, the battery won't be big. It will run in live view mode for all the time and if you put bigger EF lens onto it, the same battery has to run AF and sometimes IS as well.
> ...



"if i fits i sits"? ;D


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## pharp (Jul 22, 2012)

No optional EVF? I wonder when they'll have a version with integral EVF - there were rumored images of such a thing. That would be REAL tempting.


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## trulandphoto (Jul 22, 2012)

bainsybike said:


> I'd like to know whether the new EF-M lenses will fit on a DSLR. The 22mm F2 would be great on a crop body.



I would think not. The lens would have to be inside the lens mount on the camera due to the shorter mount to sensor distance. That's why the adapter for EF lenses.


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## noncho (Jul 22, 2012)

If it's OK with EF and EF-S adapter will be very nice and interesting...


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## c.d.embrey (Jul 22, 2012)

itsnotmeyouknow said:


> Don't know how it compares to the size of the Pentax K-01, but the K-01 uses the same battery as the medium format Pentax 645D, so it's possible it might take the same battery as the 650d/T4i



The EOS T4i uses a EP-E8 battery and the EOS-M uses a LP-E12 battery http://www.canonpricewatch.com/product/03943/Canon-LP-E12-for-EOS-M-price.html


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## marekjoz (Jul 22, 2012)

c.d.embrey said:


> itsnotmeyouknow said:
> 
> 
> > Don't know how it compares to the size of the Pentax K-01, but the K-01 uses the same battery as the medium format Pentax 645D, so it's possible it might take the same battery as the 650d/T4i
> ...



And it's weight, so the capacity will be a half smaller than the one in T4i.


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## samkatz (Jul 22, 2012)

no built in flash?? Rarely use it on the D series, but if the goal is convenience and compact form factor who wants to carry around an external?


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## Caps18 (Jul 22, 2012)

The big issue with me is how does this compare with the G1X or the next G camera? As a tourist who wants to take good photos, I like that I could use my existing lenses with this camera. But, I have been to quite a few events where non-professionals couldn't bring in cameras with detectable lenses. Would the extra quality of some photos, override the inability to bring in this camera to other events? I'm leaning towards no.

I will still bring my 5Dm2 on my travels anyways.


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## AvTvM (Jul 22, 2012)

marekjoz said:


> And it's weight, so the capacity will be a half smaller than the one in T4i.


not at all!

Rebel T4i/EOS 650D: LP-E8, 7.2V, 1120mAh = 8,1 Wh
EOS-M: LP-E12, 7.2V, 875mAh = 6.3 Wh 
= 78% of the LP-E8 

Even if the shutter mechanism and fps are identical between T4i and EOS-M, power consumption of the EOS-M will be lower as no mirror needs to be flipped all he time. This will be partially offset by the need to constantly use the LCD as viewfinder to compose images. Overall, I would expect a fairly similar number of shots per charge from both cameras.


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## heptagon (Jul 22, 2012)

dilbert said:


> bainsybike said:
> 
> 
> > I'd like to know whether the new EF-M lenses will fit on a DSLR. The 22mm F2 would be great on a crop body.
> ...



EF/EF-S lens to EF-M camera simply needs an increased distance to the camera a simple extension tube will suffice.

EF-M lens to EF camera needs a decrased distance to the image plane. This is only possible by introducing additional lenses like in the 1.4x or 2x Extenders. So it is kind of possible but there might be no EF-M lens which you would mount to an EF-camera.


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## Deeohuu (Jul 22, 2012)

marekjoz said:


> "if i fits i sits"? ;D



No viewfinder neverminder


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## Rodknee (Jul 22, 2012)

Given what has gone on with Canon pricing recently I think this will be quite an expensive package but I would love to be proved wrong. Just a cut down version of 650d so why bother 'cutting down'? Unless they get the price/spec balance right then there is too much competition out there for a smaller camera to take nice photos and nobody is currently 'wedded' to the lenses.


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## tomsop (Jul 22, 2012)

I skipped n the t4i because of the poor implementation of autofocus in video. Any chances this mirror less system may work better for video?

When should we expect sample images and video?


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## peederj (Jul 22, 2012)

This product exists simply to make the Rebel T4i look good. If these are $399 with the EF adapter included (dream on) then OK people will have them as backups. Otherwise they fall into the uncanony valley of not for pockets and not for pro's. A gewgaw best liquidated as raffle prizes in the hope of selling lenses.


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## unfocused (Jul 22, 2012)

sanj said:


> Its not for me. Thx.



Nor for me. 

But, then again, none of the mirror less interchangeable lens cameras are of interest to me. (Don't like holding a camera body out a foot from my face squinting in the sun and the whole interchangeable lens thing seems to defeat the purpose of having a smallish alternative to a DSLR.)

Still I know I'm in the minority and not the target market for this camera. The Nikon 1 system seems to be selling very well, and this is clearly superior. If they can outsell Nikon and their lesser competitors (which I believe they will) this will be a huge success for Canon.


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## CrimsonBlue (Jul 22, 2012)

I'm truly confused as to the market for the mirror less cameras that fall between the G1X series and an SLR.

1. With any lens, it is not pocketable.
2. Requires company to make an entirely new set of lenses on a new mount.

What kind of customer is best suited for this niche?


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## jouster (Jul 22, 2012)

No viewfinder = no thanks.


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## captainkanji (Jul 22, 2012)

I could see this as my second camera (I have a 7d). APS-C and EF adapter sounds great as long as it's not overpriced. I'm hearing that there's a lot of "Anti-DSLR" at venues and events where they see a 5d and say you can't bring it. This camera could fit the bill perfectly. Only thing I don't like so far (from what little info I've seen) is that there is no view finder.


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## ekstasis16 (Jul 22, 2012)

I have to say, I really don't understand the mirrorless DSLR concept. Who buys these things? 

Also - is there a reason why Canon does not offer 720 at 30p video on any of their cameras? I don't need 1080, but I don't want 60p for some shots. Plus I would think you can shoot more on a card at 720/30.


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## Merlin_AZ (Jul 22, 2012)

Those of you who say there isn't a market for something like this, I disagree.
I'm currently using an S95 when we go on family trips, which I love.
Personally, there is no way I'd ever carry a DSLR with me.
If I would, there wouldn't be an issue in my mind.
Something like this would be a huge step up.
I'd love an EVF--maybe the rumored Fall release.


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## raptor3x (Jul 22, 2012)

Am I the only who thinks the most exciting aspect of this is phase detect autofocus in a mirrorless system?


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## hoodlum (Jul 22, 2012)

tomsop said:


> I skipped n the t4i because of the poor implementation of autofocus in video. Any chances this mirror less system may work better for video?
> 
> When should we expect sample images and video?



Should be the same as the t4i as they have the same sensor and it is also using STM lenses.


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## marekjoz (Jul 22, 2012)

AvTvM said:


> marekjoz said:
> 
> 
> > And it's weight, so the capacity will be a half smaller than the one in T4i.
> ...



+1 You are right!


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## hoodlum (Jul 22, 2012)

raptor3x said:


> Am I the only who thinks the most exciting aspect of this is phase detect autofocus in a mirrorless system?



It sound exciting but the results from the T4i/650D (same sensor as EOS M) in live view with STM lens show something else.

Canon 650D T4i and EF 40mm f/2.8 STM auto focus performance test example


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## c.d.embrey (Jul 22, 2012)

CrimsonBlue said:


> I'm truly confused as to the market for the mirror less cameras that fall between the G1X series and an SLR.
> 
> 1. With any lens, it is not pocketable.



If you want "pocketable" get a smart-phone 



> 2. Requires company to make an entirely new set of lenses on a new mount.



Part of Canon's business is manufacturing and selling lenses. That's one of the ways they make money - Duh 



> What kind of customer is best suited for this niche?



Someone who wants a small/light camera and mainly uses primes between 22mm and 100mm. Beside the EF-M 22mm/f2.0 there are the EF 28mm f/2.8 IS USM, EF 40mm f/2.8 STM, EF 50mm f/1.8 II, EF 85mm f/1.8 USM and the EF 100mm f/2.0 USM.


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## swrightgfx (Jul 22, 2012)

If they were to front up with a decent, discreet EVF and a small triplet like the Perar below, I'd actually, surprising to myself, consider this.


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## Sonny (Jul 22, 2012)

How long does it usually take Canon cameras to come to market after they've been officially announced.


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## Sproutey (Jul 22, 2012)

That's a sore point after the 1D-X fiasco.


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## distant.star (Jul 22, 2012)

.
I have zero interest in this particular product, but I'm enthusiastically interested in what Canon will say about it.

What they say about this whole new technology path they're taking may indicate a lot about the future. Tomorrow may be one of the more interesting days of this interesting year.


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## gn100 (Jul 22, 2012)

Sonny said:


> How long does it usually take Canon cameras to come to market after they've been officially announced.



With consumer grade equipment, normally very soon after announcement, pro stuff is a different matter ...... I'd expect this to be available very soon


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## gn100 (Jul 22, 2012)

CrimsonBlue said:


> I'm truly confused as to the market for the mirror less cameras that fall between the G1X series and an SLR.
> 
> 1. With any lens, it is not pocketable.
> 2. Requires company to make an entirely new set of lenses on a new mount.
> ...



I to some extent agree with your sentiment, but note that mirrorless interchangeable lens cameras are selling well ........... those moving up from a P&S are one category, another is enthusiast/pro who wants a small backup, and those that want something smaller, but are just not happy with the quality of the P&S offerings (though I admit the premium P&S offerings are much better now, than a year ago), so are willing to compromise on pocketability.

I don't expect Canon to have a large range of lenses available in the short term - couple of zooms and a couple of pancake type primes. They will probably push the EF lens adapter to show the wide range of EF and EF-S lenses as a point of difference

I'll be interested to see how far off the "premium" model is, with EVF.

I'm surprised Canon opted for APS-C format instead of the G1X size sensor, which could have allowed for a noticeably smaller package (lenses in particular)


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## emag (Jul 22, 2012)

lol said:


> I'm wondering if this would make a good astrophotography camera......



My first thought also


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## Sonny (Jul 22, 2012)

Sproutey said:


> That's a sore point after the 1D-X fiasco.



Ok, after a quick read up on that situation, 'fiasco' sounds about right!



gn100 said:


> Sonny said:
> 
> 
> > How long does it usually take Canon cameras to come to market after they've been officially announced.
> ...



Great thank you, will look forward to seeing what tomorrow brings.


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## c.d.embrey (Jul 22, 2012)

gn100 said:


> I'm surprised Canon opted for APS-C format instead of the G1X size sensor, which could have allowed for a noticeably smaller package (lenses in particular)



Why are you surprised ??? I think that Canon sees Sony as a bigger competitor (threat to Canon dominance) than either Panasonic or Olympus. Sony already makes the highly regarded NEX cameras, with APS-C sensors, that are owned by many Canon owners (including me).

Sony will also introduce a Full Frame SLT (EVF viewfinder) camera at Photokine (if rumors are to be believed). A threat to Canon in the Full Frame market.


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## pharp (Jul 22, 2012)

CrimsonBlue said:


> I'm truly confused as to the market for the mirror less cameras that fall between the G1X series and an SLR.
> 
> 1. With any lens, it is not pocketable.
> 2. Requires company to make an entirely new set of lenses on a new mount.
> ...



The same people who buy 4/3 systems [many sold], Sony NEX [especially those who shelled out almost $400 for the still sold out Conrus/Metabones EF lens to NEX adapter http://www.metabones.com/sony/buy-eos-nex-adapter], Fuji X Pro 1, Nikon 1, Pentax Q, Samsung NX ..... 

OK, so maybe this isn't for you, but if this has reasonable IQ and a competitive price, I think it will sell quite well. It makes no sense for Canon to *NOT* get into, what is evidently a fast growing segment of the market. Not a "niche" by any stretch.


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## Nassen0f (Jul 22, 2012)

Sweet, then i wont be tempted to get a NEX anymore, aslong as the price is right.
Perfect as a carryaround, if i dont want to bring my 5d2 

As to who buys mirrorless cameras, its people that dont do too much research, but have money, and dont want a DSLR..
Ive been asked 5 times the last three months about people wanting a good camera that is NOT huge, and NOT too complicated. If this is not overpriced, i will start suggesting this instead of the NEX, GF3.

Cant wait to see results of this pocketrocket on the badboy 85 1.2 8)


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## raptor3x (Jul 22, 2012)

hoodlum said:


> raptor3x said:
> 
> 
> > Am I the only who thinks the most exciting aspect of this is phase detect autofocus in a mirrorless system?
> ...



After you posted this, I went out to try a demo model and thought that the live view focusing was pretty good for stills but not that great for video. Is there a way to make it behave like one shot focus in video rather than have it try to do something like servo mode?


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## gn100 (Jul 22, 2012)

c.d.embrey said:


> gn100 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm surprised Canon opted for APS-C format instead of the G1X size sensor, which could have allowed for a noticeably smaller package (lenses in particular)
> ...



Agree with your point re Sony being a bigger threat to canon's business than Olympus or Panasonic, but when Canon went ot the effort of introducing a new sensor size, I thought they would deploy it to more camera's than the G1X......... it's made me wonder whether they used the G1X to "test the water" with regard to sensor size, before introducing their mirrorless offering. I think both sensor sizes have their merits. I tried the G1X and agree that it has a pretty large body for the size of the sensor - will be interested to see this new offering side by side with the G1X.

I need to replace my old compact (Canon S70), and now see plenty of good options ..... just a case of the physical size vs image quality compromise from Canon S100 to Sony RX100 to Panasonic GX1+20mm to Canon EOS-M?


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## AdamJ (Jul 22, 2012)

Please could someone clarify for me how this camera does phase detect AF. Is there some kind of technical white paper I could read to help me understand it? Thanks.


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## pharp (Jul 22, 2012)

c.d.embrey said:


> Sony will also introduce a Full Frame SLT (EVF viewfinder) camera at Photokine (if rumors are to be believed). A threat to Canon in the Full Frame market.



and if they can develop a phase contrast AF system, like Canon - they could dispense with the stop gap translucent mirror altogether - a true mirrorless prosumer camera. If the EVF is any good and has a fast fps shooting rate - can it be long before we see a mirrorless 5D? Wouldn't even need to change the mount [flange distance]. Add to that, the Olympus OM-D EVF magnification and brighten/darken function - oh boy! Sony purportedly has no plans for future OVF SLR style cameras.


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## te4o (Jul 22, 2012)

I am curious to see the IQ of this M against the Sony RX100!


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## DzPhotography (Jul 22, 2012)

te4o said:


> I am curious to see the IQ of this M against the Sony RX100!


 ??? Why? Two different type of products.


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## kdsand (Jul 22, 2012)

I'm very glad to see canon release this. I doubt I'll will purchase this 1st model but its hard to tell with out real world in the field data. I would like some sort of viewfinded even a modular one.

I have no idea what the price will be - Canon's been fairly high lately though. I would like it if the price is competitive but would not be surprised if its released at over a grand u.s.d. (including glass).


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## Richard8971 (Jul 22, 2012)

Ah... another APS-C 18MP sensor from Canon. Is it just me or did Canon get a ship-load of these at some bargan center and now they have to find some way to unload them all??? 

j/k

D


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## Richard8971 (Jul 22, 2012)

kdsand said:


> I have no idea what the price will be - Canon's been fairly high lately though. I would like it if the price is competitive but would not be surprised if its released at over a grand u.s.d. (including glass).



Uh, I can't imagine that it would cost more than the T4i. I would imagine that it would be priced above the T3 and somewhere below the G1 X.


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## c.d.embrey (Jul 22, 2012)

gn100 said:


> I need to replace my old compact (Canon S70), and now see plenty of good options ..... just a case of the physical size vs image quality compromise from Canon S100 to Sony RX100 to Panasonic GX1+20mm to Canon EOS-M?



The Canon S100 and Sony RX100 are the only two that will actually fit in the front pocket of a pair of 501s (my Yashica T3 FFFilm P&S just barely fits) If you wear baggies, than either the Gx1 + 20mm or the Canon EF-M + 22mm will fit, 'cause the NEX 5n + 16mm does 

Hard decision.


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## hmmm (Jul 22, 2012)

Canon deserves a lot of credit for releasing its mirrorless as APS-C. Even if one doesn't go for the initial offering, the sensor is large enough to support future models that may be more compelling.

But it all comes down to price. Canon released the G1X with a nice size sensor -- a model I'd been waiting for as the next evolution of the G series -- at about $200 too high. Pass.

Canon released a new 24 2.8 ef lens at last -- an upgrade I'd been waiting for for years -- priced about $300 too high. Pass.

Now Canon is releasing this system and it could be useful and a bit of fun. But if the price is too high: Pass.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 22, 2012)

AdamJ said:


> Please could someone clarify for me how this camera does phase detect AF. Is there some kind of technical white paper I could read to help me understand it? Thanks.


There is no white paper for a camera that is not yet officially announced.
Right now, the assumption is that the technology used in the T4i is also used in this camera, but its merely a guess. It does seem likely that it uses the same sensor and Hybrid AF. This means slow AF with EF and EF-s lenses, and faster AF with STM lenses. Likely about the same as a typical P&S.
Here is one of the better descriptions, but there is no white paper. 
http://www.dpreview.com/previews/canon-eos-650d-rebel-t4i/3/#Hybrid


----------



## distant.star (Jul 22, 2012)

.
While not addressing this camera specifically, here are two suggestions:

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/07/autofocus-reality-part-1-center-point-single-shot-accuracy

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/07/autofocus-reality-part-ii-1-vs-2-and-old-vs-new

I find them helpful.




AdamJ said:


> Please could someone clarify for me how this camera does phase detect AF. Is there some kind of technical white paper I could read to help me understand it? Thanks.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 22, 2012)

ekstasis16 said:


> I have to say, I really don't understand the mirrorless DSLR concept. Who buys these things?
> 
> Also - is there a reason why Canon does not offer 720 at 30p video on any of their cameras? I don't need 1080, but I don't want 60p for some shots. Plus I would think you can shoot more on a card at 720/30.


The concept is simple, its a middle camera between point and shoot and DSLR with some good points of both, and a few not so good ones like poor or no viewfinders.
So far this year (Thru May), $42.9 million U.S. dollars worth of mirrorless have been shipped. ( http://www.cipa.jp/english/data/dizital.html )
So its a step up for P&S users. DSLR sales are rising dramatically this year, while P&S sales numbers are falling slightly. This likely means that many users are going for mirrorless rather than a P&S.


----------



## arcanej (Jul 22, 2012)

Mt Spokane, I believe the units are in 1,000 yen. So ¥42.9 billion would Be about $547 million at ¥78.46 to the dollar.


----------



## preppyak (Jul 22, 2012)

CrimsonBlue said:


> 1. With any lens, it is not pocketable.
> 2. Requires company to make an entirely new set of lenses on a new mount.
> 
> What kind of customer is best suited for this niche?


The same one who is suited for a G1x or the entry DSLR really..its smart for companies because its still a small form factor that makes it convenient to travel, but you can milk customers for money on lenses in a way you can't with the G1x.

Maybe in 5 years Canon will actually have the mirrorless thing figured out and I'll be interested, but, with all the likely problems of a first time system on top of the usual problems for early adopters, I think it'll be best to wait and see how it turns out.


----------



## arcanej (Jul 22, 2012)

I for one am very interested. My wife and I love the 5DIII and have thought about buying a second body so she could have one to herself. However, she finds the form factor a little large for her to carry around all day. The idea that we could buy a point-and-shoot sized second camera with an APS-C sensor that can utilize our existing lens has its appeal.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jul 22, 2012)

AdamJ said:


> Please could someone clarify for me how this camera does phase detect AF. Is there some kind of technical white paper I could read to help me understand it? Thanks.



Presumably, the same way the T4i/650D does PDAF during video (when the mirror is up). There are several clusters of photosites on the CMOS image sensor that are dedicated to phase AF (and not used for imaging).


----------



## thejoyofsobe (Jul 22, 2012)

I'm curious as to what kind of fps and buffer size for shooting RAW we're talking about here. it needs to be better than the G1X.


----------



## unfocused (Jul 22, 2012)

For those who don't get this camera, let me suggest that we may not understand the generational and cultural differences. 

For old American guys like me, a viewfinder is non-negotiable. But for many people, especially the young, who shoot mostly with smartphones, the idea of sticking your eye up against the back of the camera is equally foreign and unnatural. 

Over the last couple of years, I've often scratched my head at some of Canon's product announcements. But, I've also learned that they seldom get the market wrong. I expect this one to be a big winner.


----------



## max (Jul 22, 2012)

Maybe they will release something like the EVF that sony has

http://www.amazon.com/Sony-FDA-EV1S-Electronic-Viewfinder-Digital/dp/B005K8AUOI/ref=sr_1_6?ie=UTF8&qid=1342994887&sr=8-6&keywords=nex+5n


----------



## c.d.embrey (Jul 22, 2012)

unfocused said:


> For those who don't get this camera, let me suggest that we may not understand the generational and cultural differences.
> 
> For old American guys like me, a viewfinder is non-negotiable. But for many people, especially the young, who shoot mostly with smartphones, the idea of sticking your eye up against the back of the camera is equally foreign and unnatural.



Yes, there is a huge generational disconnect. Many older photographers scoff at smartphone photography. But PJs are winning World Press awards, and being published in the pages of the NYTimes, using an iPhone/Hipstmatic. Sports Illustrated is publishing iPhone/Instagram photos. Neither of theses publications are what you'd call "bleeding edge."

I'm older-than-dirt, so I don't hold my NEX 5n at arms length. I've adopted to holding the camera just inches from my eyes (elbows braced against my chest), no-big-deal. I don't think I'll have a problem with the EF-M. YMMV


----------



## SpareImp (Jul 22, 2012)

I used to have a 550D/T2i, and if this is equal in image quality (and naturally if the lenses for this system performs great), then I don’t see why I wouldn’t choose this over a point and shoot or m4/3. I already have a Fuji X10, but the EF-compatibility of this camera would make it a better choice in my case.

The only thing I miss is a viewfinder. The other mirrorless manufacturers does have several models with different features (but often the same sensor), so that might just happen at a later point in time. I’m looking forward to it and tomorrow.


----------



## Otara (Jul 22, 2012)

No body IS.

I guess it was a given, but doesnt pretty much every other mirrorless out there have it?

Maybe saving it for the more expensive body, like Olympus did with the 410 and 510.

I know Im dreaming. To me its just one of the obvious advantages of an electronic screen - you can see the effects of the IS working with body stabilisation.

Otara


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jul 22, 2012)

unfocused said:


> For those who don't get this camera, let me suggest that we may not understand the generational and cultural differences.



Hey - who you callin' old?!?


----------



## wickidwombat (Jul 23, 2012)

c.d.embrey said:


> gn100 said:
> 
> 
> > I'm surprised Canon opted for APS-C format instead of the G1X size sensor, which could have allowed for a noticeably smaller package (lenses in particular)
> ...



at risk of going a little OT which nex do you have? do you have an EF lens adaptor for it? if so how well does the EF adaptor work and is it a sony or 3rd party beast?

I find it difficult to get excited about another 18MP APS-C canon sensor


----------



## elflord (Jul 23, 2012)

CrimsonBlue said:


> I'm truly confused as to the market for the mirror less cameras that fall between the G1X series and an SLR.
> 
> 1. With any lens, it is not pocketable.



I have a panasonic GF series (similar size to the new Canon). With a pancake prime, it is jacket pocketable (it will fit in a pants pocket but it makes quite a bulge)

"Pocketable" is not the one true gold standard for compactness. Female camera buyers typically carry handbags, and the small mirrorless cameras will fit into a handbag quite easily. A DSLR with a standard zoom doesn't work nearly as well.

The physical size of a usable kit is much smaller. For example, my gf2 + 20mm pancake + 45mm will fit in my wife's purse. The 5DII + Sigma 85mm + 35L will not. 



> 2. Requires company to make an entirely new set of lenses on a new mount.



That's inconvenient for the manufacturer perhaps, but it doesn't in itself make the camera less desirable for the buyer (the implied wait before the lens lineup matures might be however) 



> What kind of customer is best suited for this niche?



DSLR users who want a less imposing companion to their big full frame but aren't willing to settle for point and shoot. 

Users who want a good quality camera but want it to be smaller than a DSLR. It might take a sophisticated user to appreciate all the features offered by a 1DX or even a Rebel. It doesn't take a very sophisticated user to get annoyed with the time it takes for the AF system to lock on, the blurry images that result from slow shutter speed (due to the slow lens and ISO limitations of a small sensor camera), or red eye, ugly lighting and slow recharge from a P&S flash. This camera seems to be aimed at such users. 

In the case of some of the high end mirrorless, some enthusiasts enjoy the ability to adapt lenses.


----------



## jpk (Jul 23, 2012)

Is it just me or is this just a non event?


----------



## hiplnsdrftr (Jul 23, 2012)

This camera is pointless without a built in flash.

Once you attach an accessory flash it is no longer compact, totally defeats the purpose.

Will be sticking with the GF1.


----------



## assessora (Jul 23, 2012)

Otara said:


> No body IS.
> 
> I guess it was a given, but doesnt pretty much every other mirrorless out there have it?



I think Sony and Samsung mirrorless cameras don't have IS in the body.


----------



## gmrza (Jul 23, 2012)

c.d.embrey said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > For those who don't get this camera, let me suggest that we may not understand the generational and cultural differences.
> ...



Living in a "tourist city" (Melbourne) I cannot tell you how many DSLR users I see using only liveview to shoot. For me, I want to be able to brace the camera properly, and an eye-level viewfinder is pretty critical for that. That said, I never use the VF on a G-series, because it is a piece of [email protected]


----------



## EOBeav (Jul 23, 2012)

I guess I'll jump into the waters in this thread. Is this camera for people who want--but can't afford--a pricey rangefinder, a la Leica?


----------



## marekjoz (Jul 23, 2012)

hiplnsdrftr said:


> This camera is pointless without a built in flash.
> 
> Once you attach an accessory flash it is no longer compact, totally defeats the purpose.
> 
> Will be sticking with the GF1.



Is the built in flash useful in your GF1?


----------



## marekjoz (Jul 23, 2012)

EOBeav said:


> I guess I'll jump into the waters in this thread. Is this camera for people who want--but can't afford--a pricey rangefinder, a la Leica?



Who'd ever care about M9 as there's no-built in flash at all?


----------



## hiplnsdrftr (Jul 23, 2012)

marekjoz said:


> hiplnsdrftr said:
> 
> 
> > This camera is pointless without a built in flash.
> ...



The built in flash was used constantly on my Contax T3, my Canon S70, G9, S95 and used nearly every night on my GF1. Really can't live with out it.

I'm fine with my "flashless" 1Ds3 and 5D2... but neither are intended to be pocketable. Popping on the 580EX2 just makes an already massive camera a little bigger, I'm fine with that.


----------



## c.d.embrey (Jul 23, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> at risk of going a little OT which nex do you have? do you have an EF lens adaptor for it? if so how well does the EF adaptor work and is it a sony or 3rd party beast?



I have a NEX 5n. Great sensor! Same 16 MP sensor as the Nikon D7000 and the Pentax K-5. Great video as well. I'm very happy with the camera. The two problems are the lack of a hot-shoe (can't use PocketWizards) and no 85mm prime. If I get an EF-M I'll use it for stills (with my EF 85mm f/1.8) and use the 5n for video (I prefer Sony video).

I do not have the Metabones http://www.metabones.com/sony/buy-eos-nex-adapter?virtuemart_product_id=4&virtuemart_category_id=13 EF to E-mount smart adapter. Sony does not make an adapter.

If I were going to use non-Sony lenses, for video, I'd use the small/light high IQ Nikon AIS manual focus lenses. Their aperture ring can easily be de-clicked. See Duclos CineMod http://www.ducloslenses.com/pages/cine-mod

Hope this helps.


----------



## EOBeav (Jul 23, 2012)

marekjoz said:


> EOBeav said:
> 
> 
> > I guess I'll jump into the waters in this thread. Is this camera for people who want--but can't afford--a pricey rangefinder, a la Leica?
> ...



Lots. Built in (on camera) flash is considered an entry level feature for many people.


----------



## marekjoz (Jul 23, 2012)

EOBeav said:


> marekjoz said:
> 
> 
> > EOBeav said:
> ...



ok, I'll edit my post:

<sarcasm>
Who'd ever care about M9 as there's no-built in flash at all? 
</sarcasm>


----------



## marekjoz (Jul 23, 2012)

hiplnsdrftr said:


> marekjoz said:
> 
> 
> > hiplnsdrftr said:
> ...



Jizzz, you lucky night wild animal  
But seriously speaking I think it really depends on one's needs. I - for instance - not too often make pictures in the night, except the moon, sometimes. In such a case even 580ex2 nor even one paired with 430ex2 won't help a lot (or I just didn't notice it) 
Seriously again, that's obvious, that it's always better to have even a led flash than nothing, but just for me it wouldn't be so crucial.


----------



## EOBeav (Jul 23, 2012)

marekjoz said:


> EOBeav said:
> 
> 
> > marekjoz said:
> ...



+1 8)


----------



## maxxevv (Jul 23, 2012)

unfocused said:


> For those who don't get this camera, let me suggest that we may not understand the generational and cultural differences.
> 
> For old American guys like me, a viewfinder is non-negotiable. But for many people, especially the young, who shoot mostly with smartphones, the idea of sticking your eye up against the back of the camera is equally foreign and unnatural.
> 
> Over the last couple of years, I've often scratched my head at some of Canon's product announcements. But, I've also learned that they seldom get the market wrong. I expect this one to be a big winner.



That sums up very nicely what seems to be happening indeed. 

Canon has proven time and again that they are masters of the 'long game'. And they probably have a road map for things 3~5 years down the line for this too.


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## gtog (Jul 23, 2012)

I find all this about the EOS M very intriguing even if I am not likely to get one right away.

Seems this type of camera may eventually replace the T3/1100D cameras.

G


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## Woody (Jul 23, 2012)

Glad to see an APS-C sensor for this camera. I won't get one now but once Canon has fixed their low ISO dynamic range problems, I shall gladly replace my ancient 450D with this tiny package (complete with the tiny 22 f/2 lens).


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## Woody (Jul 23, 2012)

maxxevv said:


> That sums up very nicely what seems to be happening indeed.
> 
> Canon has proven time and again that they are masters of the 'long game'. And they probably have a road map for things 3~5 years down the line for this too.



You are right. They have proven the web-based self-appointed smart-Alex camera critics wrong over and over and over again. Digital Rebel cameras too small to be handheld? The 5D and 5D2 cameras will be major failures? 18 MP APS-C sensors too densely packed? Pfffft... what do web based self-appointed critics know? ;D


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## Daniel Flather (Jul 23, 2012)

marekjoz said:


> It's interesting how many photos this toy can do on one battery. Assuming it's pocket size, the battery won't be big. It will run in live view mode for all the time and if you put bigger EF lens onto it, the same battery has to run AF and sometimes IS as well.



Yes, with the battery and SD card the camera's weight increases by 36 grams. 

If the price is right with the 22mm, this would be a great camera for family events where a DSLR is too bulky, e.g., day trip to the beach, family events, ect.


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## funkboy (Jul 23, 2012)

Let's hope it's priced more like the new 40mm pancake than the 24/28 IS...


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## elflord (Jul 23, 2012)

gmrza said:


> Living in a "tourist city" (Melbourne) I cannot tell you how many DSLR users I see using only liveview to shoot. For me, I want to be able to brace the camera properly, and an eye-level viewfinder is pretty critical for that. That said, I never use the VF on a G-series, because it is a piece of [email protected]



I have a cheap P&S that I let my two year old daughter play with. She's used to see me with either a Rebel or 5DMkII, so she "uses" the P&S by turning it back to front and putting her eye to the lens. For some reason your post reminded me of this.


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## swrightgfx (Jul 23, 2012)

EOBeav said:


> I guess I'll jump into the waters in this thread. Is this camera for people who want--but can't afford--a pricey rangefinder, a la Leica?


I'd say no, as it neither has a rangefinder or the looks. If a pro version of this had a rangefinder, however, I'd be right on it, as I like focussing in that way moreso than with a reflex mirror.


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## bdunbar79 (Jul 23, 2012)

Anybody going to get one to try out? It's fairly cheap, $799.


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## swrightgfx (Jul 23, 2012)

Gizmodo have a small write-up: http://gizmodo.com/5928129/canon-eos-m-finally-a-tiny-camera-designed-to-slurp-hd-video-that-slays


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## gtog (Jul 23, 2012)

An FD adapter might be interesting too, though at these price points I'd want it to be fully functional controlling apertures.

G


----------



## Sonny (Jul 23, 2012)

Amazon...

http://www.amazon.com/gp/feature.html/ref=amb_link_364217242_3?ie=UTF8&docId=1000819211&me=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_s=auto-sparkle&pf_rd_r=610531579242400C8011&pf_rd_t=301&pf_rd_p=1385643002&pf_rd_i=Canon%20EOS%20M

Dpreview...

http://www.dpreview.com/news/2012/07/23/Canon-announces-EF-M-22mm-F2-0-STM-and-EF-M-18-55mm-F3-5-5-6-IS


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## unadog (Jul 23, 2012)

bdunbar79 said:


> Anybody going to get one to try out? It's fairly cheap, $799.



Ordered!

I have a Canon T4i. This is a perfect second camera, especially for video.

I am in the process of paring my 14+ Canon lenses down to 5 or 6. 

I am going to go with the 22 2.0, 40 2.8, and 85 1.8 for primes. (From: 24 2.8, 45 TS-E, 50 1.8, 85 1.2, 90 TS-E, Contax 28 mm)

For zooms, I am going with the 18-135 STM for video, along with the 24-70 2.8 II (for absolute highest quality on zoom, I use that lens 80% of teh time), and the 70-200 4.0 (sold the 70-200 2.8 II because it is so heavy.)

I am very happy with the T4i. It has basically the same image that my $8,000 Canon 1DsII had in 2004.

Yes, the Exmor has a bit more DR at lower ISO's. But if you are posting in sRGB mode you are never going to see it. Even with prints you are compressing the DR beyond what the Canon captures, much less the Sony.

I am perfectly happy with the Canon sensors. I have been a pro photog for 30+ years, retired now so downsizing to prosumer level.

Great tools we have today! Now we just need a few video firmware tweaks this fall, either from Canon, or Magic Lantern. 

Have fun!
Michael


----------



## RGomezPhotos (Jul 23, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> ekstasis16 said:
> 
> 
> > I have to say, I really don't understand the mirrorless DSLR concept. Who buys these things?
> ...



I'd been trying to figure it an explanation to mirrorless and this does it. Kinda. I haven't seen mirrorless cameras that offer picture quality or size-savings that would justify the price difference. But camera decisions are based so much on personal vibes. So if it works for you. Cool. Me, I'd rather just use a great P&S like the G12 or Lumix before whipping out the DSLR. Mirrorless just doesn't offer enough for me for the price and size increase.


----------



## peederj (Jul 23, 2012)

It's more expensive to get one of these (with the 22mm pancake and the EF adapter...$1000) than the superior Rebel T4i (with its kit) at $930 if you want EF lens support.

What does this buy you over the Rebel, sizewise? Nothing. The Rebel has an articulated screen, a viewfinder for sunny days, 9 cross-type AF points, better balance weight and grip for bigger EF lenses, no need for a lens mount adpater, and not much harder to place in a camera bag (as the EOS M will need since it does not fit into a pocket).

I think this is Canon simply responding to trends, some not very bright people want an even smaller Rebel just for the sake of it, it doesn't change the game in terms of pocketability or quality. If they sell these, it's to not particularly perceptive individuals, who deserve to be separated from their money.

One hopes the premium Canon collects will go into the improvements the knowledgable all want.


----------



## Woody (Jul 23, 2012)

peederj said:


> It's more expensive to get one of these (with the 22mm pancake and the EF adapter...$1000) than the superior Rebel T4i (with its kit) at $930 if you want EF lens support.
> 
> What does this buy you over the Rebel, sizewise? Nothing. The Rebel has an articulated screen, a viewfinder for sunny days, 9 cross-type AF points, better balance weight and grip for bigger EF lenses, no need for a lens mount adpater, and not much harder to place in a camera bag (as the EOS M will need since it does not fit into a pocket).
> 
> ...



Interesting viewpoint. I like it.


----------



## caruser (Jul 23, 2012)

bdunbar79 said:


> Anybody going to get one to try out? It's fairly cheap, $799.



You forgot the $199 for the EF adapter that most people on this forum would probably want to include!


----------



## ssrdd (Jul 23, 2012)

same tech specs since 2009.
another canon flop show.


----------



## mb66energy (Jul 23, 2012)

peederj said:


> It's more expensive to get one of these (with the 22mm pancake and the EF adapter...$1000) than the superior Rebel T4i (with its kit) at $930 if you want EF lens support.
> 
> What does this buy you over the Rebel, sizewise? Nothing. The Rebel has an articulated screen, a viewfinder for sunny days, 9 cross-type AF points, better balance weight and grip for bigger EF lenses, no need for a lens mount adpater, and not much harder to place in a camera bag (as the EOS M will need since it does not fit into a pocket).[...]



Good point - I wanted to have a compact mirrorless which is compatible with my EF(-S) lenses including the shorty 40. The most important dimension to stow away a camera is camera THICKNESS - so the 22mm lens is essential. The most important reason to buy a mirrorless is to have a 2nd or 3rd camera attached to my EF(-S) lenses. So I have to buy the bulky adaptor with tripod mount. That's the 1000$/EUR - a T4i costs 750-800EUR in germany and is available.

Thickness of the EOS M + Adaptor + shorty forty: roughly 80mm
Thickness of the 650D (or EOS40D) + shorty forty: roughly 85mm

After viewing a video about the use of the EOS M via the touch screen:
Direct controls are really really more ergonomic than fumbling with
symbols on a screen which should also act as viewfinder.

Conclusion:
- EOS M is not substantially flatter with EF lenses than a 650D (or 40D, or 5Dxyz)
- direct controls are preferred
- built in flash in 650D is a welcome feature if it is used as all-day-with-me camera
- flexible screen is welcome for video - the main reason for me to ad a new camera to my
two 40Ds

Hopefully the next mirrorless has an EF mount and a cube shaped design like the rolleiflex
cameras with two displays (on top and on the back) which can be swapped to act
as finder and control panel ... that would be a clean solution and make it compact enough
to stow it in a lens bag  ... the camera shurely with FF sensor


----------



## mb66energy (Jul 23, 2012)

ssrdd said:


> same tech specs since 2009.
> another canon flop show.



Not exactly - the dimensions of a camera are part of the tech specs. And in terms
of compactness (if used with the 22mm lens) and the sensor size it is an advance
for those who just want to use that package. I think there is some progress
and if it's a flop - the buyers will decide.

As stated in my post above I am more interested in the 650D to acquire the
option of video with EF(-S) lenses - this camera (the EOS M) isn't the right upgrade
for ME because it is to limited and for that it's to expensive.


----------



## rafaelsynths (Jul 23, 2012)

unadog said:


> bdunbar79 said:
> 
> 
> > Anybody going to get one to try out? It's fairly cheap, $799.
> ...



I really don't understand why anyone in the right mind would pay $800 for a crappy camera like this or why on earth you would even buy the T4i. Very Pro of you. *sarcasm*


----------



## funkboy (Jul 23, 2012)

A few things occurred to me when musing about the lack of built-in flash.







A built-in flash would have a pretty bad lens shadowing problem with just about anything except the 22mm pancake. It just can't get high enough like a built-in on a DSLR body can (Panasonic has been pretty good at solving this problem though). Even in a reasonably-sized adapted setup like this one:






the lens shadow would be pretty big.

Also, a large part of the reason for this camera's existence is video, which doesn't need built-in flash (& probably doesn't justify some kind of built-in video light in this class of camera).

I think it's an interesting prospect for existing EOS users as a tiny second body that shoots good video.


----------



## caruser (Jul 23, 2012)

Good point about the flash!



funkboy said:


> I think it's an interesting prospect for existing EOS users as a tiny second body that shoots good video.



The price is a bit high though, in particular the 200 for a mechanical adapter. With such a camera I would also like to get an FD adapter and go raiding local camera shops for cheap lenses ;-)


----------



## funkboy (Jul 23, 2012)

caruser said:


> With such a camera I would also like to get an FD adapter and go raiding local camera shops for cheap lenses ;-)



Absolutely. I certainly won't get one of these cameras until I can natively mount all my Contax glass on it. Focus peaking would help; hopefully Canon will read the reviews & add it in future firmware...


----------



## marekjoz (Jul 23, 2012)

funkboy said:


> A few things occurred to me when musing about the lack of built-in flash.
> 
> A built-in flash would have a pretty bad lens shadowing problem with just about anything except the 22mm pancake. It just can't get high enough like a built-in on a DSLR body can (Panasonic has been pretty good at solving this problem though). Even in a reasonably-sized adapted setup like this one:
> 
> ...



It could be such a popup like this and lens would not cast such a shadow (sorry for quality - 5mins in gimp)

*THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE HOW IT COULD BE. DON'T THINK THERE IS SUCH A VERSION OF EOS-M!*


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## Woody (Jul 23, 2012)

mb66energy said:


> Thickness of the EOS M + Adaptor + shorty forty: roughly 80mm
> Thickness of the 650D (or EOS40D) + shorty forty: roughly 85mm



Thanks for that info. I looked into the weight difference:

Weight of 650D + battery = 575 g
Weight of EOS M + battery + card + adapter = 348 g

Approximately 200 g savings in weight with the EOS M + adapter.


----------



## elflord (Jul 23, 2012)

RGomezPhotos said:


> I'd been trying to figure it an explanation to mirrorless and this does it. Kinda. I haven't seen mirrorless cameras that offer picture quality or size-savings that would justify the price difference.



Take a look at the Panasonic GF series, for example. They are pretty closely matched in size to a point and shoot (especially if you're comparing with larger models like a G12), and the earlier models are relatively cheap now. 

Lower end bodies tend to fall off in price very quickly, so if you don't have to have the newest shiniest toy, they are pretty cheap. 

BTW, I've always felt the G series started to show its age once similar sized cameras with much larger sensors started appearing on the market -- it's what pushed Canon to up the ante and build a fixed lens replacement with a larger sensor.


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## swrightgfx (Jul 23, 2012)

marekjoz said:


> *THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE HOW IT COULD BE. DON'T THINK THERE IS SUCH A VERSION OF EOS-M!*



Um, if they were to release an EVF, I'm not sure a pop-up in that position would work. They could have a side-mounted one, though. Preferably one that swivels so that you can bounce it or some white card or a reflector at close range.


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## marekjoz (Jul 23, 2012)

swrightgfx said:


> marekjoz said:
> 
> 
> > *THIS IS JUST AN EXAMPLE HOW IT COULD BE. DON'T THINK THERE IS SUCH A VERSION OF EOS-M!*
> ...



Sure, I've spent just 5 minutes to show, that it could be a high popping up buil-in flash to avoid a shadow casting by lens. Sure you're right, but this camera has no VF and no flash yet. I hope in next one we'll see a VF.


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## Gman (Jul 23, 2012)

*Canon EOS M size*

No good to me.. The body is a decent size however once you begin adding lenses, a flash and adapters it's no longer got any advantage over my G11 which I can easily pop into my bum bag. If this isn't coming out until October anyway and there's no hint at a G12 successor I guess if I am going to get something slightly better than my G11 it will have to be the G12 at least that's half the price of the EOS-M. I'd go for the new Sony except I'd miss the swivel screen and at least I wont have to learn a new menu system.


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## psolberg (Jul 23, 2012)

I like it. But as other have said, the choice of ergonomics is a killer. menu driven photography sucks. But it is a great step forward. However I'm still not seeing a good enough compeling argument to own one over competing alternatives specially given the size of the mount adapter and the price/weight of EF lenses. If it had come out with a bunch of fast primes, I may consider it. For now mounting old-age EF lenses is just not going to cut it.


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## psolberg (Jul 23, 2012)

Deeohuu said:


> marekjoz said:
> 
> 
> > "if i fits i sits"? ;D
> ...



oh crap. then it is totally a no-go. That is one thing I was hoping it had because LCDs are utter fail in bright sunny conditions.


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## Freeze_XJ (Jul 23, 2012)

Ergonomics will always be tricky with small cameras like these. However, if Canon wants to have a 'budget'-line that is appealing to Joe Average, they will have to reduce size somewhere, to make the camera more pocketable. 

With this camera, they may well have shown what the 700D or 750D will look like, reducing the complex mirror setup, and forcing the OVF user to 1-up to the X0D. 
As for flash, it's technically very hard (I won't say impossible) to put one in, because if I measure just a 40D, the flash is roughly 10 centimeters above the optical axis, and even that gives shadows pretty fast. With a total height of 66 mm, this camera would have to make its flash pop an extra 6 centimeters above the body to achieve the same effect, which would make it fragile at best. The option of swright might be good, to put a flash in the sides, which would put it on top for portrait mode (where it matters most), giving you an extra inch or so to play with. 
Still, the pocketable flash you can buy to it is an OK option in my book. You can save weight/money if you want, or take it with you when you think you might need it. It may also be a nice backup-flash for your big rig, since most of the buyers of this camera will already have invested a lot of money in lenses, and other gear.


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## ssrdd (Jul 23, 2012)

mb66energy said:


> ssrdd said:
> 
> 
> > same tech specs since 2009.
> ...



'' dimensions '' 
you r the funny guy.


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## swrightgfx (Jul 23, 2012)

*Re: Canon EOS M size*



Gman said:


> If this isn't coming out until October anyway and there's no hint at a G12 successor I guess if I am going to get something slightly better than my G11 it will have to be the G12 at least that's half the price of the EOS-M.


G1X? I'd say the price will come down a fair bit with this latest release...


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## ssrdd (Jul 23, 2012)

if i really wanted a compact and solid powerful camera.
i would go to OM-D from olympus. Not for an old sensor wrapped in new shell.


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## marekjoz (Jul 23, 2012)

ssrdd said:


> if i really wanted a compact and solid powerful camera.
> i would go to OM-D from olympus. Not for an old sensor wrapped in new shell.



Most power comes here from the lens selection, which BTW makes it no pocketable anymore.


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## Woody (Jul 23, 2012)

ssrdd said:


> if i really wanted a compact and solid powerful camera.
> i would go to OM-D from olympus. Not for an old sensor wrapped in new shell.



Olympus OM-D is certainly an attractive camera except for its forbidding price. Guess Olympus must have paid Sony a large sum of money to design and produce the OM-D sensor.


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## Freeze_XJ (Jul 23, 2012)

marekjoz said:


> Most power comes here from the lens selection, which BTW makes it no pocketable anymore.


Current selection of pocketable lenses is indeed limited (just the 22 f/2), but I expect Canon to expand that over time... With adapter perhaps the new 40 f/2.8 also becomes pocketable, but I'm not sure yet.


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## akiskev (Jul 23, 2012)

marekjoz said:


> ssrdd said:
> 
> 
> > if i really wanted a compact and solid powerful camera.
> ...


This can be said for any Canon camera, no matter how crappy it is...


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## marekjoz (Jul 23, 2012)

akiskev said:


> marekjoz said:
> 
> 
> > ssrdd said:
> ...



But not all others are meant to be pocketable


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## swrightgfx (Jul 23, 2012)

marekjoz said:


> ssrdd said:
> 
> 
> > if i really wanted a compact and solid powerful camera.
> ...



Let me re-quote myself:



swrightgfx said:


> If they were to front up with a decent, discreet EVF and a small triplet like the Perar below, I'd actually, surprising to myself, consider this.



If we had a couple of really simple lens designs, even if only manual focus, I think this could still be considered pocketable. The OM-D body is much larger (if it was full-frame, I'd forgive them).

I personally don't mind carrying around large cameras, as I still use medium format film, but it would be a handy addition if everything was "right."


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## jarv (Jul 23, 2012)

Not sure if this has been posted yet, but here is a link for sample phtotos/vids that Canon has posted.
http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eosm/


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## marekjoz (Jul 23, 2012)

jarv said:


> Not sure if this has been posted yet, but here is a link for sample phtotos/vids that Canon has posted.
> http://web.canon.jp/imaging/eosd/samples/eosm/



Thanks, I haven't seen it. In my opinion not bad at all as with these lenses. I think it's not easy to auto focus using a touchscreen and relatively fast lens. Second photo seems to be a little frontfocused to me. But how to autofocus it properly with the fast lens without a viewfinder and confirmation, that we're really focusing what we intended to?


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## AvTvM (Jul 23, 2012)

swrightgfx said:


> Let me re-quote myself:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



+100!


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## 6950rpm (Jul 23, 2012)

Haydn1971 said:


> Who will be first to post a piccie of this hooked on the back of a 800mm prime ? Extra kudos for getting on the back of a 1200mm !



Found one!






Taken from http://blog.wexphotographic.com/the-canon-eos-m-mirrorless-camera-hands-on-review/

8)


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## elflord (Jul 24, 2012)

marekjoz said:


> Most power comes here from the lens selection, which BTW makes it no pocketable anymore.



A camera this size is jacket pocketable with a pancake. One could even put an additional lens in another jacket pocket. 

It's true that there are some lenses that when mounted make the camera non-pocketable. There are also lenses that when mounted on a canon DSLR, the camera is not hand holdable -- but it doesn't follow that a Canon DSLR is not hand holdable.


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## marekjoz (Jul 24, 2012)

elflord said:


> marekjoz said:
> 
> 
> > Most power comes here from the lens selection, which BTW makes it no pocketable anymore.
> ...



Of course, I agree. But there are more lenses making EOS M not pocketable, than lenses making a DSLR not hand holdable  You can wear dungarees of course...


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## ssrdd (Jul 24, 2012)

swrightgfx said:


> marekjoz said:
> 
> 
> > ssrdd said:
> ...



And u think Eos-m is pocketable with all the adaptors. 
who care if some body wanted shitty old sensor which fairly poor low light quality.

go ahed fan boy, buy two or more. At least canon might compensate the losses from 5d3.


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## marekjoz (Jul 24, 2012)

ssrdd said:


> swrightgfx said:
> 
> 
> > marekjoz said:
> ...



Why are you so offensive?


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## swrightgfx (Jul 24, 2012)

ssrdd said:


> swrightgfx said:
> 
> 
> > marekjoz said:
> ...


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