# Panasonic Launches New LUMIX S Series Full-frame Mirrorless Cameras LUMIX S1R and LUMIX S1



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 1, 2019)

> *Newark, NJ (February 1, 2019) –* After the development announcement at Photokina 2018, Panasonic is now proud to introduce the full specifications of its long-awaited first full-frame Digital Single Lens Mirrorless cameras, the LUMIX S1R and S1, with a 35mm full-frame CMOS sensor. The new cameras are based on the L-Mount standard, which boasts a well-balanced, large inner diameter and compact dimensions for a flange focus to realize optimum size and performance as a mirrorless camera system.
> *Preorder the Panasonic S1 & Panasonic S1R*
> 
> The LUMIX S Series aims for unprecedented image quality with high resolution, rich gradation and superior color reproduction. A high-speed, high-precision AF system based on advanced control technology over the lens, the sensor, and the new Venus Engine enables the user to capture the target in sharp focus...



Continue reading...


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## bokehmon22 (Feb 1, 2019)

Come on Canon. Give us IBIS, dual card slot, 5.76 million dot EVF, great eyeAF. Just match the competition at least


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## Chaitanya (Feb 1, 2019)

Only thing these cameras lack is a DPAF sensor otherwise a good feature set- back illuminated buttons, usb C port with charging capability and dual memory card slots are a definite plus.


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## bsbeamer (Feb 1, 2019)

Lots of news coming out of Newark, NJ this morning...

All of these pro-level full frame mirrorless cameras (right now) have the same basic problem - they lack the native lenses I need. The Panasonic even more so since adapters are not available. At minimum, give me F2.8 with IS/OS/VC in lens for 15-30/35, 24-70/75, and 70-200/210 (or better). 

In body, would love IBIS so I can stop with the gimbal garbage for video. I tripod or support whenever possible, but let's face it - life and work does not always allow tripods. 

I'm hopeful to see a release from Canon with real, usable 4K @30fps and/or @60fps (and high frame rate at lower resolutions) without crop in the near future.

I really need 28MP+ for stills and truly would prefer even higher. 5DMk4 image quality is baseline, but even that gets into some grey territory when wanting to print large multi-piece canvas art. 

Would prefer high MP bodies with nearly all video features (cap at 30fps vs 60fps if necessary), but vastly different video specs (like Sony) make them completely different models. Let's end the confusion and call them different products/names.

Wait and see...


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## ethanz (Feb 1, 2019)

Sounds like a good spec sheet. Doesn't mention how long battery lasts though. There is a lot going on in that camera that requires juice. Not a bad price.


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## AaronT (Feb 1, 2019)

ethanz said:


> Sounds like a good spec sheet. Doesn't mention how long battery lasts though. There is a lot going on in that camera that requires juice. Not a bad price.


The S1R is rated at 380 shots, CIPA spec. In real life expected to be as much as 1000. The S1 is rated at 400.


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## Del Paso (Feb 1, 2019)

Quite heavy for a mirrorless.
But ergonomics seem to be far better than Sony's small- hands cameras, at least their size suggests so.
And, if $$$ don't matter, those Leica SL lenses...
Oh! I almost forgot the 24/105 MACRO!!!!!!!!


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## bhf3737 (Feb 1, 2019)

Good spec sheet. EVF and stabilization seem to be excellent. Only if it could focus well with its contrast based AF that has been the Achilles heel in Panasonic cameras for video. The extra features (e.g. log recording) still require paid licenses and it seems that shooting video in ALL-I mode is gone, too.


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## jd7 (Feb 1, 2019)

They do sound like interesting lcamera bodies, I have to admit. I am not interested in video and I am not too worried about whether or not a camera has IBIS, but they _look _like the ergonomics could be good and they make the EVF sound good (although I remain in the “I prefer OVF” camp at least at this point)  Bit surprised by weight though. Anyway, will be interesting to hear how they perform in real world shooting.


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## AlanF (Feb 1, 2019)

AaronT said:


> The S1R is rated at 380 shots, CIPA spec. In real life expected to be as much as 1000. The S1 is rated at 400.


Real life? My usual score is about 25% of CIPA spec shots for all the mirrorless I have ever had.


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## AlanF (Feb 1, 2019)

Del Paso said:


> Quite heavy for a mirrorless.
> But ergonomics seem to be far better than Sony's small- hands cameras, at least their size suggests so.
> And, if $$$ don't matter, those Leica SL lenses...
> Oh! I almost forgot the 24/105 MACRO!!!!!!!!


They are just Leica certified, ie designed and made (or contracted) by Panasonic and rubber stamped by Leica.


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## Woody (Feb 2, 2019)

It's funny that the S-mount doesn't appear to be backward compatible with micro four-third lenses, and no one complains about it.


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## drob (Feb 2, 2019)

I wonder if Sigma can change their lenses with E mount to L mount...or if Sigma is waiting to introduce their L mount lenses along side their L mount camera.


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## Del Paso (Feb 2, 2019)

AlanF said:


> They are just Leica certified, ie designed and made (or contracted) by Panasonic and rubber stamped by Leica.


Sorry, but you misunderstood me: I meant the Leica lenses for the Leica SL (Summicron, Summilux etc...).
Misery seeking company: I too get only about 25% of C_IPA shots with my Leica M 240._


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## Viggo (Feb 2, 2019)

AlanF said:


> Real life? My usual score is about 25% of CIPA spec shots for all the mirrorless I have ever had.


Seriously? I average around 600 shots in the cold with the R, and that is spread across two weeks. I tried it a lot when I first got it and got loads of reviewing, menu searching, videos and 730 shots. I full expect 750-850 shots in a day in the summer.


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## AlanF (Feb 2, 2019)

Viggo said:


> Seriously? I average around 600 shots in the cold with the R, and that is spread across two weeks. I tried it a lot when I first got it and got loads of reviewing, menu searching, videos and 730 shots. I full expect 750-850 shots in a day in the summer.


I know I am at the bottom end of the spectrum and others do better. Never tried the EOS R, but I would do badly because of the the drain from IS on my 100-400 being used as a spotting scope between shots. The M5 gives me only 100 or so in normal use, the G3X II, similarly so (both sent back for testing) - I know many do really well with these, but not me, and I don't dispute that some people get a 1000 shots per charge. The SonyRX10IV does give 300-400 shots. I don't do well with the 5DIV either.


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## jd7 (Feb 2, 2019)

Anyone know why Leica L mount was chosen for the new system rather than M mount? I really don't know much at all about Leica gear, but I'm assuming L mount must be the one offering the best IQ? I ask because the L mount lenses seem to be big and heavy, but I understand the M mount lenses are relatively small and light but still have good IQ, so I'm wondering why they chose the mount which seems to be associated with bigger and heavier lenses.


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## Viggo (Feb 2, 2019)

jd7 said:


> Anyone know why Leica L mount was chosen for the new system rather than M mount? I really don't know much at all about Leica gear, but I'm assuming L mount must be the one offering the best IQ? I ask because the L mount lenses seem to be big and heavy, but I understand the M mount lenses are relatively small and light but still have good IQ, so I'm wondering why they chose the mount which seems to be associated with bigger and heavier lenses.


M mount is MF only, maybe thats a reason? I’m just guessing ..


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## dak723 (Feb 2, 2019)

jd7 said:


> Anyone know why Leica L mount was chosen for the new system rather than M mount? I really don't know much at all about Leica gear, but I'm assuming L mount must be the one offering the best IQ? I ask because the L mount lenses seem to be big and heavy, but I understand the M mount lenses are relatively small and light but still have good IQ, so I'm wondering why they chose the mount which seems to be associated with bigger and heavier lenses.



Perhaps I am misunderstanding your question, but the M mount is Canon's mount for their M series APS-C crop cameras, which has nothing to do with Panasonic and Leica cameras. Panasonic, which was until now making micro 4/3rds cameras, has created a partnership with Leica in making a FF camera, thus they are using the L- mount that Leica already has established for their FF cameras. Lenses for FF cameras are normally wider and heavier as they need to project a wider image circle and are faster (larger apertures) than lower level consumer lenses made for the crop sensor M system. The L mount has no advantage that I know of offer better IQ. In fact, it can be argued that Canon's and Nikon's (new mirrorless) mount, will have the advantage (albeit small) when it comes to designing lenses with high IQ at a reasonable price.


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## Viggo (Feb 2, 2019)

dak723 said:


> Perhaps I am misunderstanding your question, but the M mount is Canon's mount for their M series APS-C crop cameras, which has nothing to do with Panasonic and Leica cameras. Panasonic, which was until now making micro 4/3rds cameras, has created a partnership with Leica in making a FF camera, thus they are using the L- mount that Leica already has established for their FF cameras. Lenses for FF cameras are normally wider and heavier as they need to project a wider image circle and are faster (larger apertures) than lower level consumer lenses made for the crop sensor M system. The L mount has no advantage that I know of offer better IQ. In fact, it can be argued that Canon's and Nikon's (new mirrorless) mount, will have the advantage (albeit small) when it comes to designing lenses with high IQ at a reasonable price.


You misunderstand, Leica has an M mount also, which is used for almost all full frame bodies like the M9 and onwards.


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## BeenThere (Feb 2, 2019)

jd7 said:


> Anyone know why Leica L mount was chosen for the new system rather than M mount? I really don't know much at all about Leica gear, but I'm assuming L mount must be the one offering the best IQ? I ask because the L mount lenses seem to be big and heavy, but I understand the M mount lenses are relatively small and light but still have good IQ, so I'm wondering why they chose the mount which seems to be associated with bigger and heavier lenses.


Also, the idea was to have a common mount across several manufactures to increase lens commonality over a larger user base. Sigma is also on the L mount bandwagon. If you make a single lens that works across several brands then there are some cost savings that makes your equipment more appealing to buyers.


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## tmc784 (Feb 2, 2019)

I am very happy with my current 5DIV, I can wait for Canon the next new model. When I spend $3000+. I buy Canon camera which is made in Japan.


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## jd7 (Feb 2, 2019)

Viggo said:


> M mount is MF only, maybe thats a reason? I’m just guessing ..


I think you may be on to something! Now you say it I do remember reading the Leica M gear is manual focus but I'd forgotten about that.


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## jd7 (Feb 2, 2019)

dak723 said:


> Perhaps I am misunderstanding your question, but the M mount is Canon's mount for their M series APS-C crop cameras, which has nothing to do with Panasonic and Leica cameras. Panasonic, which was until now making micro 4/3rds cameras, has created a partnership with Leica in making a FF camera, thus they are using the L- mount that Leica already has established for their FF cameras. Lenses for FF cameras are normally wider and heavier as they need to project a wider image circle and are faster (larger apertures) than lower level consumer lenses made for the crop sensor M system. The L mount has no advantage that I know of offer better IQ. In fact, it can be argued that Canon's and Nikon's (new mirrorless) mount, will have the advantage (albeit small) when it comes to designing lenses with high IQ at a reasonable price.


As Viggo has already said, I was talking about Leica's M mount, not Canon's EF-M mount. And I think Viggo has explained why the new Leica/Panasonic/Sigma system uses L mount rather than M mount.
As you say, it seems possible Canon's RF mount and Nikon's Z mount have an advantage over L mount in terms of allowing smaller and lighter lenses with great IQ. Which is really why I was wondering why the new system uses L mount. But I can see why they might have wanted to use an existing mount so there are lenses already available, and M mount doesn't have AF, so I guess that explains the choice of L mount.


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## Don Haines (Feb 2, 2019)

BeenThere said:


> Also, the idea was to have a common mount across several manufactures to increase lens commonality over a larger user base. Sigma is also on the L mount bandwagon. If you make a single lens that works across several brands then there are some cost savings that makes your equipment more appealing to buyers.


Also, note how well this worked with micro 4/3 lenses.


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## dak723 (Feb 3, 2019)

Viggo said:


> You misunderstand, Leica has an M mount also, which is used for almost all full frame bodies like the M9 and onwards.



Thanks, Did not know. Too many mounts to keep track of!


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## tmroper (Feb 3, 2019)

If mirroless is the future of cameras, these Panasonics show the future of mirrorless. They may not be perfect yet, but with all the AI and ergonomics and hardware, they look like true "pro" mirrorless cameras. I know the contrast based AF has its limitations, but it seems software keeps improving it, and for single shot, it's the best.


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## CandySpan (Feb 3, 2019)

Del Paso said:


> Sorry, but you misunderstood me: I meant the Leica lenses for the Leica SL (Summicron, Summilux etc...).
> Misery seeking company: I too get only about 25% of C_IPA shots with my Leica M 240._



How on earth are you shooting your m240? Have you installed the firmware? Mine literally acts like a film camera. I can leave it on all day, wake it up to shoot, and it goes back to sleep. I’m always surprised at how much battery power I have left. Last night I shot a fashion editorial with remote flash, about 1000 images, still at 80% battery. Something may be wrong with yours to be eating up so much battery power.


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## AlanF (Feb 3, 2019)

It's both interesting and encouraging that Panasonic has gone for a full DSLR-sized body. There are so many reports of the Sony bodies being uncomfortable after a few hours shooting with larger lenses and fingers being cramped. It's good to have another serious rival on the block to stir up progress.


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## Del Paso (Feb 3, 2019)

jd7 said:


> As Viggo has already said, I was talking about Leica's M mount, not Canon's EF-M mount. And I think Viggo has explained why the new Leica/Panasonic/Sigma system uses L mount rather than M mount.
> As you say, it seems possible Canon's RF mount and Nikon's Z mount have an advantage over L mount in terms of allowing smaller and lighter lenses with great IQ. Which is really why I was wondering why the new system uses L mount. But I can see why they might have wanted to use an existing mount so there are lenses already available, and M mount doesn't have AF, so I guess that explains the choice of L mount.



There could be another reason why L mount was chosen: access to Leica lenses, and, for Leica and its SL, a wider choice of lenses (Panasonic, Sigma).
Cost for developing native Leica lenses for the SL must be horrendous, due to the SL's sales figures.
I could also imagine the next Leica SL being based on a Panasonic chassis, like, in the past, the Leicas R 3 -4-5-6-7 on a Minolta basis.


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## dak723 (Feb 3, 2019)

I know many folks don't like Tony Northrup, but you might want to take a look at his video, which goes over the myth versus reality of all those great advertised Panasonic specs. As is usually the case, the specs are not always what they claim to be.






Of course, not saying it's all true, and you might want to watch more reviews as they come in.


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## AlanF (Feb 3, 2019)

Well, that's a real dampener!


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## BeenThere (Feb 3, 2019)

Very little positive in TN review. Tells you something about just believing spec sheets.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Feb 4, 2019)

The situation with Panasonic and Full frame is that they felt forced to either come out with something, or be totally out of the market. A lot of people will believe the spec sheets without understanding exactly what the specs mean. They will probably be very happy with the cameras as well. I'd certainly wait to see multiple professional reviews of production cameras once some fast pro level lenses become available. Its tougher to autofocus fast lenses than slow lenses, so AF with a F4 lens does not guarantee accurate AF with a f/2.8.

Panasonic is known for video as is Sony, I hope buyers research the limitations of contrast detect for autofocusing during video, its not pretty.


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## bsbeamer (Feb 4, 2019)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Panasonic is known for video as is Sony, I hope buyers research the limitations of contrast detect for autofocusing during video, its not pretty.



Every single broadcast ENG camera from Panasonic or Sony that I was using in the 90's/2000's was fitted with either a Canon or Fuji/Fujinon lens. They were great at the recorder and sensor portion of the camera, but their lenses were lackluster (if even really available for purchase). There's still a lack of interoperability with 3rd party (non-native mount) lenses from both Sony and Panasonic to an extent. Lenses from a wide range of manufacturers will "work" but many of the selling features will not work appropriately when using with an adapter. It's better than it was, but it's still not quite right. 

I love DPAF from Canon and if they continue to improve, combined with their color science they'll be headed in the right direction. Still unsure where this RF mount and R series mirrorless is really heading and at what prices with what features (or lack of features). Those that haven't jumped ship at least have a reason to stick around a little longer to see what's available.


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