# Unable to AFMA 70-200mm 2.8 is II



## gjones5252 (Nov 28, 2012)

So i am so excited that i finally got this lens. Sad part is no matter what i do i cannot get it into focus. It always seems to be just a bit off. On closer inspection i noticed i had it at +20 the highest AFMA available and it cannot get accurate focus. It is just a slight bit front focused. I feel like for a 2500 lens I would want it to be acurate. As i am typing this i am wondering if its on when its at 70. The sample images are all cropped and shot at 200. Should i send it and the camera to canon? I have acquired what i consider to be a set of bodies and lenses i am content with(minus 5d mark iii) and i have heard you can send all you equipment to canon and have it all calibrated to each other. If so what does it cost? Or am i being to picky?


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## Don Haines (Nov 28, 2012)

Where do you think it was supposed to focus.... and what are all the focus settings? Could you repost with the settings and draw a circle around where you think it should have focused?

Also, one of my co-workers brought in his Rebel and complained that it would not focus..... turns out he had it set to spot focus and had selected the far left focus point, yet thought that the camera should focus in the center. it never hurts to verify the settings.....


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 28, 2012)

Don Haines said:


> Could you repost with the settings and draw a circle around where you think it should have focused?



Or better yet, open it in DPP, turn on the AF point display, and take a screenshot. 

One more test - compare live view AF with viewfinder AF - if the former is sharper, it's likely an AFMA issue, and if both are front-focused it's likely a lens quality issue.

Note that your test scene is not really ideal, either. If you have a few lenses, I really think Reikan FoCal is the way to go for doing AFMA.


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## PackLight (Nov 28, 2012)

Shooting at rocks on the ground isn't going to tell you how accurate it is. 

For a caveman style AF test I would do the following at a minimum.

At the very least you need a definite isolated subject that you know your camera focuses on. Next a yard stick or something similar laying next to your target so you can actualy see the DOF that you get.

Settings use single point AF in single shot mode with no surrounding points engaged. 

Take a few shots and review. If it looks close but not perfect go to the next step and set up a more scientific test. Or buy focal and give it a try.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 28, 2012)

PackLight said:


> At the very least you need a definite isolated subject that you know your camera focuses on. Next a yard stick or something similar laying next to your target so you can actualy see the DOF that you get.



Yep - that was part of my point. Here's what I recommend as a DIY setup, requires a cardboard box, a tape measure, a chopstick or pencil, and a printout of this focus target (use a tripod, but you could just set the camera on a book, as pictured).


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## dirtcastle (Nov 28, 2012)

Nice setup. 

I just bought FoCal. It seems to get good results. Hopefully they will improve support for the 5D2 and 5D3. Manual mode is tolerable, but I sometimes felt like fidgeting with the controls and keyboard was undermining the delicate nature of the testing. A few times it told me the target had moved. Um, well... yes, because I'm hitting effing buttons during the test. :


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## Don Haines (Nov 28, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Don't forget that the viewfinder has a diopter adjustment......


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## PackLight (Nov 28, 2012)

dirtcastle said:


> Nice setup.
> 
> I just bought FoCal. It seems to get good results. Hopefully they will improve support for the 5D2 and 5D3. Manual mode is tolerable, but I sometimes felt like fidgeting with the controls and keyboard was undermining the delicate nature of the testing. A few times it told me the target had moved. Um, well... yes, because I'm hitting effing buttons during the test. :



Try reading a book or watching TV while the Auto test is running. You might get better results.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 28, 2012)

Don Haines said:


> Don't forget that the viewfinder has a diopter adjustment......


The diopter adjustment has nothing to do with the camera AF. It does help you see the focus screen sharply, but it does not matter where it's set as far as camera AF is concerned.


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## dirtcastle (Nov 28, 2012)

PackLight said:


> dirtcastle said:
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> > Nice setup.
> ...



That would be nice!

Alas... my 5Ds only work in manual mode. But still, I'll take it; it's a lot easier than the setup Neuro diagrammed.


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## PackLight (Nov 28, 2012)

dirtcastle said:


> PackLight said:
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Yes it easier than the old stick and stone methods.

I don't have the 5D III (I read it has to be done in manual) but my 5D II works in Auto fine, but mine is finicky. What I found is a couple of things, if it is not finishing the run it could be one of a few things. Distance to target, sometimes if it doesn't finish the cycle adjusting a bit forward or back seemed to help. If the camera isn't square to the target it will have problems. Lighting, if you get a lower EV sometimes it has problems. The only lens I had that I couldn't get to run in Auto was the 300mm f/2.8 but I was trying to do it at 20x focal length distance away.


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## dirtcastle (Nov 28, 2012)

PackLight said:


> dirtcastle said:
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I was confused when my 5D2 didn't work with auto mode. I'll give those tricks a try. Thanks!


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## scottkinfw (Nov 28, 2012)

You are not too picky.

I have similar problems with my 5D3 and my L lenses.

I sent my lenses, along with my 5d2, 5D3, and 50D to get calibrated. I got the equipment back from Canon, and was very disappointed. To make it worse, I did this prior to an African Safari, and got way more duds than keepers.

If you send them in, be very careful on checking out the gear before you take it out on an important shoot.

sek


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## scottkinfw (Nov 28, 2012)

Here are a couple of tips.

Be sure tripod is very stable. Lock all of the rotation points. I also use masking tape or Frog Tape to further secure against movement. This really helps.

sek



dirtcastle said:


> Nice setup.
> 
> I just bought FoCal. It seems to get good results. Hopefully they will improve support for the 5D2 and 5D3. Manual mode is tolerable, but I sometimes felt like fidgeting with the controls and keyboard was undermining the delicate nature of the testing. A few times it told me the target had moved. Um, well... yes, because I'm hitting effing buttons during the test. :


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## Don Haines (Nov 28, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > Don't forget that the viewfinder has a diopter adjustment......
> ...



Agreed, but I have run into people who do not know about it and wonder why the viewfinder is never sharp..... There are a bazillion settings on a camera and many people only know what a few of them do. Quite often, when things go wrong, it is a settings problem.... This focusing problem could be lens, could be body, or the camera could be set to auto select the focus point, it picks a point other than the center, yet the user mistakenly believes it is still set to focus on center point only..... That's why I asked what the settings were....


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## docholliday (Nov 28, 2012)

A few of those images also look like they have a bit of shake, even at the 1/125 shutter...


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## Dylan777 (Nov 28, 2012)

If your lens or camera still under Canon 1yr warranty, then send both body and lens to Canon. Canon will do it for FREE. Canon will ask for the original sale receipt from authorized dealer - no exception. Without receipt, they will charge about $200 US for this service.

They calibrated my 5D II + 24-105 for FREE, since my 5D II was under warranty at that time.


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## canon_convert (Nov 28, 2012)

Dylan777 said:


> If your lens or camera still under Canon 1yr warranty, then send both body and lens to Canon. Canon will do it for FREE. Canon will ask for the original sale receipt from authorized dealer - no exception. Without receipt, they will charge about $200 US for this service.
> 
> They calibrated my 5D II + 24-105 for FREE, since my 5D II was under warranty at that time.



Hi Dylan,

Would this work on refurbs purchased through Canon stores ... I did buy a 24-105L roughly one month back but, I find the focus to be bit off (on 5D3). Images come out pretty soft even under ideal lighting conditions (tried tripod/live view etc.). Tried focal that reported a +3 on Wide end but still not much improvement. 

Typically canon offers 90 day warranty on refurbs. I did register for CPS so how do I initiate this request to Canon .. Sorry for the n00b questions.

thank you


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## Dylan777 (Nov 28, 2012)

canon_convert said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > If your lens or camera still under Canon 1yr warranty, then send both body and lens to Canon. Canon will do it for FREE. Canon will ask for the original sale receipt from authorized dealer - no exception. Without receipt, they will charge about $200 US for this service.
> ...



Hi canon_convert,
I'm not 100% sure on refurbs item. My guess is you should be fine since your lens is till under their warranty.

Just tell them what you just told me - "you bought this lens through their site and it seems to be soft on your 5D III"

In my case, I brought my 5D II + 24-105 down to service center in Irvine, CA. I told them the lens is soft and asked if they can help. They did calibrated the lens to match with my 5D II. 

The lens did get little better after calibration, but no where near my current 5D III + 24-70 f2.8 II or 70-200 f2.8 IS II.

My 2cents: the 24-105L is not a sharp lens. I tried 2 copies, no luck.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 28, 2012)

dirtcastle said:


> Nice setup.
> 
> I just bought FoCal. It seems to get good results. Hopefully they will improve support for the 5D2 and 5D3. Manual mode is tolerable, but I sometimes felt like fidgeting with the controls and keyboard was undermining the delicate nature of the testing. A few times it told me the target had moved. Um, well... yes, because I'm hitting effing buttons during the test. :


Put the camera on a sturdy tripod, and, unless you have a concrete floor, do not move anything during the testing. There is no need to use the keyboard while the camera is taking the test images, and using it should not move the camera or target in any event. If the USB cable is jerking on the camera, perhaps you might consider a longer USB cable, 10 ft ones work well.
I mount my laptop to my tripod with no issues.
This is my indoor setup. The floor is shaky, so I do not dare move while the camera is taking the test photos, concrete is much better.


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## dirtcastle (Nov 28, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> dirtcastle said:
> 
> 
> > Nice setup.
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FoCal "manual mode" appears to require hitting the keyboard after each adjustment change of AFMA (during the test). Or did I miss something? 

I will test each lens multiple times with FoCal, each time under slightly different conditions (lighting and distance). That way, any flukes from a particular test will eventually be worked out. I'm also not assuming that FoCal will give me perfect results.

Ultimately, if I can't tell the difference in real world shooting... then it begs the larger question of using FoCal. I don't assume it will always be correct. I use it as another opinion, to confirm or dispute my own hunches.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 28, 2012)

dirtcastle said:


> Ultimately, if I can't tell the difference in real world shooting...



That's true, today. But in a few years, the entire world will be composed of QR Codes, and then FoCal results will be universally applicable to all pictures.


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## East Wind Photography (Nov 28, 2012)

It's also easier to evaluate if you shoot in RAW mode as well. That way the in-camera processing wont monkey with the sharpness and trick the brain into thinking something is sharp when it isnt. Also make sure IS is turned off because IS no matter how you have the camera mounted will shift the image possibly causing inconsistent image sharpness.



dirtcastle said:


> PackLight said:
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## PackLight (Nov 28, 2012)

dirtcastle said:


> Ultimately, if I can't tell the difference in real world shooting... then it begs the larger question of using FoCal. I don't assume it will always be correct. I use it as another opinion, to confirm or dispute my own hunches.



FoCal or any system you use to test are similar to a stoped clock which has the correct time twice a day. The tests are accurate with the set up you use and the conditions you perform the test in.

You can test with slightly brighter or darker lighting and get diffrent results. With some lenses you can move closer or farther away and the results will be diffrent. The targets we shoot in real life are seldom flat and positioned square to our camera. Changing the aperture on some lenses will move where your camera AF at.

What is best to know is how your AF system for a given lens is going to perform in diffrent conditions at diffrent distances. I find FoCal or LensAlign to be good tools to test the camera in diffrent situations so I know how the lens performs in diffrent situations and I can adjust accordingly.


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## gjones5252 (Nov 28, 2012)

So I kinda got tired of trying to do through using the box/ruler and caveman method. Sorry about the pics they were taken while I was at a ranch doing a shoot and couldn't understand what was wrong with my lens. Just haven't ha time to take better ones. 
I purchased focal plus today. All my lenses were originally at +14 on average for my 5d mark ii. 
So far with focal they are all under 8 + or - 
I am concerned though because while I am sure my methods are not accurate I didn't feel as though they would be off by such a massive amounts. I am waiting for the 70-200mm to complete as its been running for a very long time. 
As soon as they are done I am excited to test real world usage. 

The 70-200mm is finished it ended up at -2.... 
Ill update on real world test..


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## PackLight (Nov 28, 2012)

gjones5252 said:


> So I kinda got tired of trying to do through using the box/ruler and caveman method. Sorry about the pics they were taken while I was at a ranch doing a shoot and couldn't understand what was wrong with my lens. Just haven't ha time to take better ones.
> I purchased focal plus today. All my lenses were originally at +14 on average for my 5d mark ii.
> So far with focal they are all under 8 + or -
> I am concerned though because while I am sure my methods are not accurate I didn't feel as though they would be off by such a massive amounts. I am waiting for the 70-200mm to complete as its been running for a very long time.
> ...



The test is all about repeatablity and consistancy. If you run the test four or five times and get the same results, set it up the next day and get the same results then it is probably doing what it should. 
But here is a note my 70-200mm on my 5D II is like -1 at 70mm and -2 at 200mm. On my 1D IV it has a widwer span, so you need to check at wide, long and some in the middle to see what the lens is doing overall.


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## East Wind Photography (Nov 28, 2012)

YOu need to test the zooms at both ends of the zoom range and preferably at a few places in between. The AFMA could be different at 70 than it is at 200....and in between. However your DOF will be shallowest at 200 and where it really counts the most.

It's also important to note that using the caveman method is not very accurate. It's difficult to determine what is sharpest on the ruler. Most will look at where softness starts on either side of focus and split the difference. That is usually wrong. Lenses tend to have more DOF away from the ideal focus point than in front. If you are evaluating focus using lenscal, ruler, or other cave man method you need to evaluate the sharpest point on the scale and not guess by splitting the OOF range.

If you cant tell then it either doesn't matter much or you should use a more accurate eval tool such as Focal. Some lenses are just soft wide open and so you cant really tell where the sharpest point is. Focal will work the entire range and mathematically model the AFMA points and calculate the best setting based on the model.



gjones5252 said:


> So I kinda got tired of trying to do through using the box/ruler and caveman method. Sorry about the pics they were taken while I was at a ranch doing a shoot and couldn't understand what was wrong with my lens. Just haven't ha time to take better ones.
> I purchased focal plus today. All my lenses were originally at +14 on average for my 5d mark ii.
> So far with focal they are all under 8 + or -
> I am concerned though because while I am sure my methods are not accurate I didn't feel as though they would be off by such a massive amounts. I am waiting for the 70-200mm to complete as its been running for a very long time.
> ...


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## PackLight (Nov 28, 2012)

East Wind Photography said:


> Some lenses are just soft wide open and so you cant really tell where the sharpest point is.



Not the lens he is testing. At 200mm at f/2.8 should be very sharp.
When I did the apeture sharpness test that FoCal Pro provides the only aperture sharper than f/2.8 is f/3.2


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## canon_convert (Nov 28, 2012)

> Hi canon_convert,
> I'm not 100% sure on refurbs item. My guess is you should be fine since your lens is till under their warranty.
> 
> Just tell them what you just told me - "you bought this lens through their site and it seems to be soft on your 5D III"
> ...



Hey thanks for getting back to me... I'll know for sure about my 24-105 once I get my 70-200 II later this week...Managed to score one from Canon refurb sale


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## gjones5252 (Nov 29, 2012)

Yeah tested all my newly calibrated lenses. They are all sharp and very clear under good light. So the method is super crucial. 
On a side note the reason all this afma started was because I was not happy with the quality of pictures on my 24-105mm. Even after focal adjustment this is not really what I would be expecting out of such a highly regarded L lens. I want to go use it some more since it is often mentioned as good quality I would expect this is another case of user error


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