# Canon MP-E 65 f/2.8



## Sabaki (Aug 30, 2014)

So I'm an absolute macro nut and I'm very seriously considering ponying up for the MP-E 65. Thing is, I don't know much about it.

So a quick Google search says this lens was released in September, 1999. How does this lens hold up vs the 100L when it comes to sharpness, bokeh etc? I shoot handheld, with the MR-14EX ringlite in manual, for the record.

This lens is 15 years old, still brilliant or due for an upgrade? And if you feel it is due for a reboot, what would you change about it?

Thanks guys


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## Random Orbits (Aug 30, 2014)

The lens does not focus at infinity and the working distance is tight, so you'll definitely need flash a lot of the time (effective aperture drops with higher magnification). It is not a general purpose lens, it is a specialist lens, but it does what it does very well. It starts at where the 100L ends, 1:1 and goes to 5:1. DOF will get extremely thin at higher magnifications, so you'll probably start focus stacking a lot more. The 100L is much easier to use for subjects that you want closer to 1:1. The MP-E comes into its own for smaller targets.

At the pixel level, it is not the "sharpest" lens and it gets softer at higher magnifications, but it is sharp enough. You can use it handheld and rocking back and forth to get the images for blending, but it's much easier to use on a tripod with rails.


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## Ralph (Aug 30, 2014)

Random Orbits said:


> it is not the "sharpest" lens and it gets softer at higher magnifications, but it is sharp enough. You can use it handheld and rocking back and forth to get the images for blending, but it's much easier to use on a tripod with rails.



It is the sharpest lense at 1:1 on the market and e.g. used as the reference macro lense at traumflieger.de

http://www.traumflieger.de/objektivtest/open_test/referenz/makrovergleich/Makroreferenz.php#mpe65


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## keithcooper (Aug 30, 2014)

If you get one, pick up the oddly shaped lens hood (I got mine cheaply from eBay). You are that close to a subject that flare is a potential issue.

Use mine a lot with a 1Ds3 and 100D (higher effective magnification)
I have it mounted on a stackshot rail driven via Helicon Remote.

One other thing - I live in an old house with floorboards. I have to ask people to stop moving round when doing a stack at maximum magnification if not using flash (mt-24EX)

Here it is when I was taking photos of some very small chips (the observant amongst you may notice that the camera lead is not connected ;-)


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## candyman (Aug 30, 2014)

keithcooper said:


> If you get one, pick up the oddly shaped lens hood (I got mine cheaply from eBay). You are that close to a subject that flare is a potential issue.
> 
> Use mine a lot with a 1Ds3 and 100D (higher effective magnification)
> I have it mounted on a stackshot rail driven via Helicon Remote.
> ...




That's some setup! Can you show us the result? Thanks


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## Steve (Aug 30, 2014)

Sabaki said:


> I shoot handheld, with the MR-14EX ringlite in manual, for the record.



I don't think its what you want. The MP-E 65 is basically a high mag lens on the end of a bellows. You focus it by setting the magnification and then moving the camera so that the subject is in the plane of focus. At high mag, this is difficult to do handheld to say the least. Have you ever tried a reversing ring with an old prime? Its like that.


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## Sabaki (Aug 30, 2014)

Steve said:


> Sabaki said:
> 
> 
> > I shoot handheld, with the MR-14EX ringlite in manual, for the record.
> ...



So you wouldn't recommend shooting this lens handheld?

Keith Cooper! Now THAT'S how you shoot macro


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## keithcooper (Aug 30, 2014)

candyman said:


> keithcooper said:
> 
> 
> > ...Here it is when I was taking photos of some very small chips (the observant amongst you may notice that the camera lead is not connected ;-)
> ...



This is one of the shots - the coin is a UK 5p piece.

This was from when I first got the stackshot and was experimenting with different stacking/lighting ideas. 

I do include such work in our commercial photography, it's mainly electronic components, although last week I had to shoot a small pile of chia seeds and include all the detailed mottling patterns on them.

I enjoy it as something so very different from my architectural/commercial work - almost every job starts of with a "do you reckon you could make 'x' look interesting" ;-) 

I have used the lens hand-held on the 1Ds3 with the MT-24EX - some great shots of spiders, but everyone does insects, not so many of everyday stuff ;-)


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## Drainpipe (Aug 30, 2014)

Literally registered just to give you some working knowledge of the MPE instead of a lot of the speculation on here.

The MPE is the BEST macro lens, hands down, for both ease of use and features. Sure you can't focus to infinity, and you can't even get past 1:1, but the mere ability to go from 1:1 to 5:1 without flimsy bellows or extension tubes make this lens SO worth it. You can shoot with it handheld, and you can do a lot of great stuff stacking with it as well. The lens is perfect as it is, and I can't see Canon changing it because it literally was never broke to begin with. Nothing about it is frill, and it gets the job done. In my humble opinion, it should have a red stripe for the quality of build you get, as well as the quality of photos you get. There is nothing else on the market to compete with it, and Canon knows that. I'm a firm MPE fan if you can't tell 

I'll sample some of my photos just so you know I'm not pulling this out of my... well... you know:


Handheld stuff:






















Stacks:


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## xps (Aug 30, 2014)

As I see that many of you work with this lens, some questions please:
I own this lens for more than 13 years, and used it in the past very often. BUT: Changing from the 1V&3 to digital cameras, my - specially for this lens used - Novoflex flash system (Duo flash system mounted on the uniset folder and manually adjusted driven by an microadjustment-slider) does not work with newer digital cameras anymore. 
So I worked with the MR-EX14 in lower magnifications and added an 550EX and an Nissin DI866 MKII on the sides. But my problem is, that both side flashes are very strong and sometimes I can´t reduce the light to that strength I would like to. Adding an bouncer is sometimes not reducing the light enough or making the light to soft.
My question: 
- Is the MT-24 system worth buying, or should I buy 2 small flashes to mount on the Uniset to highlight the object when I rise the magnification? (I did not know that you can put the small flasheads off the ring and mount them on an other holding system). And which flashes?

Thanks


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## Drainpipe (Aug 30, 2014)

xps said:


> As I see that many of you work with this lens, some questions please:
> I own this lens for more than 13 years, and used it in the past very often. BUT: Changing from the 1V&3 to digital cameras, my - specially for this lens used - Novoflex flash system (Duo flash system mounted on the uniset folder and manually adjusted driven by an microadjustment-slider) does not work with newer digital cameras anymore.
> So I worked with the MR-EX14 in lower magnifications and added an 550EX and an Nissin DI866 MKII on the sides. But my problem is, that both side flashes are very strong and sometimes I can´t reduce the light to that strength I would like to. Adding an bouncer is sometimes not reducing the light enough or making the light to soft.
> My question:
> ...



In my opinion, yes. If you're going to be handheld shooting with it, the MT-24EX is the easiest solution by far. It moves with the system whereas other solutions do not. At one point I had some Pixel Kings attached to two 270EXIIs on a Manfrotto 330B. While mimicking the MT-24EX, it really wasn't a viable solution.

Recently I have moved to the 580EXII for stacking. It's just easier to have the flash off camera for stacking IMO.


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## drjlo (Aug 30, 2014)

MP-E 65 is a beast of a lens. Having no focus ring and having to move the camera back and forth to focus takes some getting used to, not to mention the extreme stability needed at high magnification. 

Frankly, I find my Canon 100L like 10x easier to use, so I end up using the 100L with an extension tube to boost the magnification beyond 1:1 a bit. Still, if one loves a challenge..



IMG_8805 by drjlo1, on Flickr

Salt grains



Salt 5x by drjlo1, on Flickr


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## keithcooper (Aug 30, 2014)

The MT24 units are very easy to use detached, but I do have to be careful with those springy cables - setting up stuff too small to easily see and then jogging it with a cable is annoying to put it mildly ;-)

It's almost like setting up a mini studio - note the business card for a backdrop in the photo earlier.

For non stacked shots, such as the match head, it's great to fit the heads to the ring. I do prefer to fit diffusers, but any photography at this scale is helped by assorted bits of card/cloth/silver foil etc.


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## keithcooper (Aug 30, 2014)

One other image I took of a ballpoint pen and (very dead) hard disk drive shows the reflection of a business card backdrop - this was with the mt-24 attached to the front of the lens. All the standard tricks of studio product photography apply, just much smaller ;-)


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 31, 2014)

More samples, and some technique/lighting ideas, here:

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=17362.0


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## Canon1 (Aug 31, 2014)

If you want to go closer than 1:1 or 2:1 this is really THE lens to do it. The downside, as others have mentioned, is that it does not focus to infinity, and the min magnification is 1:1, so you won't be able to use this thing for anything other than macro.

I have used it handheld many times, and with practice it is a very hand-holdable lens. You definitely would want to us a macro flash.

Personally, I ended up selling it and purchasing a Sigma 150mm Macro. While the MP-E 65 is a spectacular lens, it was just too specialized for me. Before buying it, I highly recommend renting one. The rental cost will be well worth the test to make sure you really want this specialty lens.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 31, 2014)

Canon1 said:


> Personally, I ended up selling it ... While the MP-E 65 is a spectacular lens, it was just too specialized for me.



I expect you're not alone, and for the OP, that may be something to consider. I bought my MP-E 65 used in like-new condition...and I paid $500 for it.


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## mpphoto (Aug 31, 2014)

I recommend renting before buying to figure out if the lens is one you need and will enjoy using. I rented, then bought a like-new used copy a few months later. I suspect it is pretty easy to find these in like-new condition because people buy them and either find the lens isn't for them, or they simply don't use it often enough to keep around.

I haven't had much luck using this lens handheld; for me a focusing rail is a must. You are working so close to your subject that you need to make sure you have good lighting. The lens can cause a shadow. I use a remote shutter so I don't have to worry about any incidental camera movement when pressing the shutter button. As others have mentioned, unless your floor is real sturdy, you can't have anyone walking around while you shoot because the magnification of this lens will amplify the vibrations. Admittedly my tripod isn't the most robust, but this is something to keep in mind.

With these caveats out of the way, the MP-E 65mm enables you to create some pretty neat photos. It gives you a perspective you won't get with any other lens. It is not like the more traditional lenses that you just pop on the camera and start using. It takes some skill and practice, but you can be rewarded with some great shots.


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## keithcooper (Aug 31, 2014)

Yup, mine was 2nd hand too...

I've quite a few bits of kit that seem to have been purchased by someone else on a whim and then sold on after they 'didn't work' ;-)


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