# More Photokina Chatter [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 7, 2012)

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<p><strong>PowerShot and EOS

</strong>I received a few tidbits of information of coming products for Photokina.</p>
<p><strong>PowerShot

</strong>S100 Replacement with Wifi</p>
<p>G12 Replacement that isn’t much different than the current one. Same sensor size as the G12.</p>
<p>A new SX big zoom PowerShot is coming.</p>
<p><strong>EOS

</strong>A full frame EOS between the 7D and 5D Mark III with touchscreen and 20mp (most mentions have been 22mp)</p>
<p><strong>CRs Take

</strong>I’m not 100% sure about a new EOS camera, though there are press events all over the planet next week. Announcing EOS with Pixma and PowerShot has happened before, and Canon could use a splash at Photokina if Nikon does indeed announce their inexpensive fullframe D600.</p>
<p>Stock levels of the 5D Mark II seem to be depleting in various places around the globe as well.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


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## Gman (Sep 7, 2012)

Surely if the new 'G12' is not going to be much different to the old G12 then if the 'improvements' dont warrant the higher price then it might be worth buying an original G12 at the presently discounted price?

I wonder what the chatter means by 'not much different'? Same size sensor but CMOS? Digic 5 processor instead of 4? Wider lighter lens say 24mm to 180mm ƒ2 to ƒ4? 

Of course the final question will be will it be just an announcement or available and in the shops before the Nikon P7700 which is almost a clone of the G12 but without a viewfinder? Love to see comparisons between the two.


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## Bob Howland (Sep 7, 2012)

I'm most interested in the S100 replacement. Oh yes, and the 200-400, which isn't mentioned.


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## Dave92F1 (Sep 7, 2012)

I have no inside info - just guessing based on technology and Canon's other products.

Recall that the G12 was introduced together with the S95 (the predecessor to the S100). So the G12 is now 2 generations old.

I think the body size, lens, and ergonomics of the G12 are already pretty good - I can see why Canon doesn't see a need to change them.

But I think we'll see the G12 replacement (G14, at a guess) has the CMOS 1/1.7" sensor from the S100 (or slightly newer), DIGIC 5, improved movie mode (1080p/60 would be great), and the high-speed movie capture from the S100 (200 and 400 frames/sec).

I hope it'll also have GPS (again like the S100) for geotagging.

And maybe, maybe, if we are very lucky, it'll have hybrid phase detect/contrast detect focusing (like the latest Rebel). That would mean a huge (and much-needed) improvement in focus speed.

If it has even 2/3 of those, I'll buy one the first day it's on the market to replace my G11. I've been waiting a long time, and the G1X isn't what I'm looking for.

If I'm right, externally the new camera won't look much different - same body, lens, controls. But inside a lot of changes that matter.


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## Etienne (Sep 7, 2012)

G12 replacement? I like the form factor, the S100 is too small and finicky for my taste. I hope it has:

manual video control, 1080p, manual audio, AF during video, zooming during video
RAW+jpg mode and wifi, to allow immediate sharing of small jpg, plus RAW for later use.
Good low light performance

other goodies welcomed


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## kennephoto (Sep 7, 2012)

Stop teasing me with a new eos full frame. When would they start announceing products?


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## powershot2012 (Sep 7, 2012)

Yes, sees all you have to do is look to the S series for the upcoming changes in the G series. There use to be a time when the G series was "cutting edge" but now the focus seems to be on the S series and the G series eventually catches up later, but always lags.



Dave92F1 said:


> I have no inside info - just guessing based on technology and Canon's other products.
> 
> Recall that the G12 was introduced together with the S95 (the predecessor to the S100). So the G12 is now 2 generations old.
> 
> ...


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## Dave92F1 (Sep 7, 2012)

Etienne said:


> I hope it has:
> 
> manual video control, 1080p, manual audio, AF during video, zooming during video
> RAW+jpg mode and wifi, to allow immediate sharing of small jpg, plus RAW for later use.
> Good low light performance



Agreed. Manual video control (esp. shutter speed!) is really important.


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## RLPhoto (Sep 7, 2012)

7DII or a 6D Budget FF or whatever its going to be called.

If either of these are announced, my 7D is going on Evil bay / Craigslist.


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## schmidtfilme (Sep 7, 2012)

If Canon releases a 6D now they have my money. I even wait until end of October, but then if nothing happens and I won't wait forever I go with the new Nikon D600...just saying - not that anyone would care.


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## Gman (Sep 7, 2012)

Dave92F1 said:


> I have no inside info - just guessing based on technology and Canon's other products.
> 
> I think the body size, lens, and ergonomics of the G12 are already pretty good - I can see why Canon doesn't see a need to change them.
> 
> ...



I agree totally with that last paragraph, problem will be when they will hit the market, I am in the market for a new camera to replace my G11 now but I suspect we might only see an announcement which might leave us hanging for a while


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## flangad (Sep 7, 2012)

Dave92F1 said:


> I have no inside info - just guessing based on technology and Canon's other products.
> Recall that the G12 was introduced together with the S95 (the predecessor to the S100). So the G12 is now 2 generations old.
> I think the body size, lens, and ergonomics of the G12 are already pretty good - I can see why Canon doesn't see a need to change them.
> But I think we'll see the G12 replacement (G14, at a guess) has the CMOS 1/1.7" sensor from the S100 (or slightly newer), DIGIC 5, improved movie mode (1080p/60 would be great), and the high-speed movie capture from the S100 (200 and 400 frames/sec).
> ...



I agree with you, but about the lens: the quality is there, but the G12 lense specifications are quite outdated: 28-140 f/2,8-f/4,5 are ridiculous compared with new Nikon P7700 28-200 f/2-f/4
I hope Canon will bring a new lense. as written above, a 24-180 f2/f/4 (or 24-140 f2-f/3,5) would be perfect

But that make sense to keep the sensor size unchanged
the Canon range is good:
- expert compact with "small" sensor and versatile lense: G12, G14... Gnn
- expert compact with large sersor (but bigger body and of course, unfortunaltely, less versatile lense, but good for bokeh) : G1X, G2X.... GnX


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## Gman (Sep 7, 2012)

Dave92F1 said:


> I have no inside info - just guessing based on technology and Canon's other products.
> 
> I think the body size, lens, and ergonomics of the G12 are already pretty good - I can see why Canon doesn't see a need to change them.
> 
> ...



I agree totally with that last paragraph, problem will be when they will hit the market, I am in the market for a new camera to replace my G11 now but I suspect we might only see an announcement which might leave us hanging for a while 

ps
touch sensitve screen?


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## hmmm (Sep 7, 2012)

schmidtfilme said:


> If Canon releases a 6D now they have my money. I even wait until end of October, but then if nothing happens and I won't wait forever I go with the new Nikon D600...just saying - not that anyone would care.



Well I care ... because I'm thinking along the same lines myself. 8)


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## pakosouthpark (Sep 7, 2012)

Canon Rumors said:


> A full frame EOS between the 7D and 5D Mark III with touchscreen and 20mp (most mentions have been 22mp)



that is what i wanted to hEAR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yeah bring it on!! and for october release please!!!


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## witeken (Sep 7, 2012)

I want the SX50!!


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## pakosouthpark (Sep 7, 2012)

schmidtfilme said:


> If Canon releases a 6D now they have my money. I even wait until end of October, but then if nothing happens and I won't wait forever I go with the new Nikon D600...just saying - not that anyone would care.



+1 been waiting for this camera


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## distant.star (Sep 7, 2012)

.
So, now I'll be an old fart using an S95!

Oh, how the children will laugh.


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## Dave92F1 (Sep 7, 2012)

flangad said:


> I agree with you, but about the lens: the quality is there, but the G12 lense specifications are quite outdated: 28-140 f/2,8-f/4,5 are ridiculous compared with new Nikon P7700 28-200 f/2-f/4
> I hope Canon will bring a new lense. as written above, a 24-180 f2/f/4 (or 24-140 f2-f/3,5) would be perfect



Unfortunately lens technology doesn't change very fast. I don't think the G12 lens is "outdated", it's just the result of a different tradeoff.

If you move to a lens like the Nikon P7700 (28-200 f/2-f/4), you have to give else something up - it'll be bigger, heavier, less sharp, or more expensive. Or some combination of those.

I'm pretty happy with the existing G12 lens - it's really sharp and f/2.8 is enough for me. And it focuses really close, which I use a lot (the G1X fails here). Wider would be nice, but it's OK.


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## Basti187 (Sep 7, 2012)

pakosouthpark said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > A full frame EOS between the 7D and 5D Mark III with touchscreen and 20mp (most mentions have been 22mp)
> ...



yes please!


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## Lawless (Sep 7, 2012)

pakosouthpark said:


> schmidtfilme said:
> 
> 
> > If Canon releases a 6D now they have my money. I even wait until end of October, but then if nothing happens and I won't wait forever I go with the new Nikon D600...just saying - not that anyone would care.
> ...



+ me too. Although I am going to wait for Black Friday and hope there are bundles again since I know I want a lens as well. 

I am going to let some of the dust settle but based on which way the product lines go I am going to revisit my position on Canon vs. Nikon before buying some good glass ...


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## SwampYankee (Sep 7, 2012)

hmmm said:


> schmidtfilme said:
> 
> 
> > If Canon releases a 6D now they have my money. I even wait until end of October, but then if nothing happens and I won't wait forever I go with the new Nikon D600...just saying - not that anyone would care.
> ...



I care to, and I am thinking along the same lines. I am waiting to replace my 50D and have a budget of $2,500 . I can continue to drive towards a 5d (getting close) , hope Canon wants to take my money for a lower priced ful frame, or jump ship. Right now it looks like Nikon is in the technical lead here. The only thing keeping me on Canon is my 70-200 f4L and my 24-105L . Canon's new (every body pays MSRP for the new 5DIII really pissed me off. They are about to drive a bunch of advance amateurs out the door. a 3 year old 7D is not going to do it for me. Show me something new or I'll start looking


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## SwampYankee (Sep 7, 2012)

distant.star said:


> .
> So, now I'll be an old fart using an S95!
> 
> Oh, how the children will laugh.



Seems that the 295 was the sweet spot. The s 100 came out, had a bunch of initial problems, just getting that sorted out, and now a replacement shows up. Sometimes you just get some of those short lived models. I know, I'm on a 50d. I also have an s95 and it's still a sweet camera. That small, with quality RAW? good camera


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## garyploski (Sep 7, 2012)

Basti187 said:


> pakosouthpark said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...


And here I almost took advantage of the deals on the 60D/T4i because of the rumor news earlier this week. Glad I waited a bit longer. #phew


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## RC (Sep 7, 2012)

Canon Rumors said:


> A full frame EOS between the 7D and 5D Mark III with touchscreen and 20mp (most mentions have been 22mp)



Losing my optimism for a FF pro body (7D/5D build, layout). I sure hope touch screen doesn't mean flip screen too.


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## Marsu42 (Sep 7, 2012)

RC said:


> Losing my optimism for a FF pro body (7D/5D build, layout). I sure hope touch screen doesn't mean flip screen too.



There's really nothing wrong with a flip screen, it doesn't have any drawbacks except having the amateur image. 

But the problem w/ touchscreen, a flip screen, a new 20mp sensor (I guess w/ video af like on the 650d) is that Canon will make sure to cripple the camera so much that enthusiasts or professionals are only left with the 5d3 to buy. Canon releasing a cheaper ff is not because they're throwing money away on purpose, but because they cannot produce a better crop sensor than the current 18mp and this sensor is in so cheap camera bodies by now that the pressure from below has gotten too high by internal and external competition, i.e. the Nikon d600.

And for the same reason they gave the 7d the hyped firmware upgrade - there's more air left in the ff sensors, but on crop Canon might be stuck with video af and the like until they develop or buy new sensor tech raising iso capability and dynamic range.


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## RC (Sep 7, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> RC said:
> 
> 
> > Losing my optimism for a FF pro body (7D/5D build, layout). I sure hope touch screen doesn't mean flip screen too.
> ...



I hear you, and I agree. Flip screen will likely mean a plastic body more like the 60D. I want a mag body with button layout like the 7D and 5D. It would probably be a deal breaker for me.


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## Chuck Alaimo (Sep 7, 2012)

hopeful on the 7d2/6d/entry level FF myself. My poor little 7d is struggling to stay useful next to my mk3, and the 5d2 just doesn't seem worth it for my needs (I want something close to as clean at ISO 6400 as the mk3, not expecting the entry level to produce lean usable images above that, but I do want something that can produe files that line up nice with the mk3 files for weddings)...

If canon doesn't, my money will go to the used market --- a 1dmk4 perhaps.... hmmmmm (or, a second mk3)

also, come on with it canon ----- bring us a 14-24mm 2.8 that can rival nikons !!!!!!


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## tiger82 (Sep 7, 2012)

I think a new EOS body release warrants multiple press events. There is nothing earthshaking about a new printer or point and shoot.


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## preppyak (Sep 7, 2012)

RC said:


> Losing my optimism for a FF pro body (7D/5D build, layout). I sure hope touch screen doesn't mean flip screen too.


I actually would prefer the flip screen, as I'm pretty sure we aren't gonna see 7D level build quality or weather sealing, sadly. So, in that case, I'd rather get the more useful screen.



Marsu42 said:


> But the problem w/ touchscreen, a flip screen, a new 20mp sensor (I guess w/ video af like on the 650d) is that Canon will make sure to cripple the camera so much that enthusiasts or professionals are only left with the 5d3 to buy.


Actually, if you check the rumor again, he says that the sensor is most often cited as 22mp. I really can't imagine them doing the R&D for a whole new sensor for a cheaper camera. I can see them taking the 5dIII, crippling key features (weaker AF, slower frame rate, weaker build) and also tweaking the filters so that the video isn't as good. All of which I'm fine with, as they'd generally be upgrades over the 5DII, and they'd keep the price closer to $2k

The only thing I absolutely won't accept is them removing AFMA, I think that would kill the camera on release for most people


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 7, 2012)

preppyak said:


> The only thing I absolutely won't accept is them removing AFMA, I think that would kill the camera on release for most people



Sheesh, don't even suggest that - Canon might think it's a good idea to drive 5DIII sales. 

Actually, while it would kill the camera for most people here, I'm not sure that many of the rank-and-file consumers who would be the target market would notice...


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## preppyak (Sep 7, 2012)

Nah, I think there are enough base users who would demand AFMA for primes on full-frames. They don't like risk, and its a little too risky to rely on a strategy that assumes their are enough schmoes who will drop $2k+ on something they have no idea about.


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## Etienne (Sep 7, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> RC said:
> 
> 
> > Losing my optimism for a FF pro body (7D/5D build, layout). I sure hope touch screen doesn't mean flip screen too.
> ...



I would love a flip screen on a pro body. I am not as flexible as I once was, bending down to look is a pain, not to mention often a mess in dirt and mud or snow. There's absolutely no disadvantage in a flip screen for me. Also you can flip it to protect it when not in use.


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## Gman (Sep 7, 2012)

If


> (the) G12 Replacement that isn’t much different than the current one. Same sensor size as the G12.



Then I wonder what we can expect?
Same size sensor but CMOS
digic 5 processor
better lens?

and it will be called the G12A ?


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## Marsu42 (Sep 7, 2012)

preppyak said:


> Actually, if you check the rumor again, he says that the sensor is most often cited as 22mp. I really can't imagine them doing the R&D for a whole new sensor for a cheaper camera.



Me neither - but I can imagine them tweaking the existing sensor a bit so that the nominal mp count is somewhat lower than 22mp for the tech data sheets. They did the reverse strategy for the 21mp 5d2->5d3, and that's no sensor redesign either.

Or maybe they really added live view like on the 650d, that might eat up some pixels that wouldn't count for still shots? Quite possible, because that's a tech where Canon has an edge unlike Nikon in iso/dr.


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