# Canon EOS 5D Mark IV to Come Before NAB [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 30, 2015)

```
<p>We’re told that the Canon EOS 5D Mark IV will be announced before NAB 2016 in April. How far in advance of the show, we’re not sure. We do note that WPPI is at the beginning of March 2016, while products are rarely announced for that show, WPPI (wedding photographers) is a big target market for the EOS 5D Mark IV.</p>
<p>We’re expecting a new Cinema EOS camera for NAB in April, so I don’t think a stills DSLR will get announced specifically for that show either.</p>
<p>While the EOS-1D X successor is expected first, we haven’t been told when that will be unleashed on the masses.</p>
<p>No specifications were given for the EOS 5D Mark IV at this time.</p>
```


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## dolina (Sep 30, 2015)

Before the Olympics at Rio for both the 5D Mark III and 1D X replacements.

Based on how frequently the 5D Mark III is being put on "sale" its replacement may come out first.

Start saving up, I expect prices to be almost at par with the 5Ds.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 30, 2015)

Its pretty far off to predict a announcement, but next Spring sounds reasonable.

I doubt if the price reductions of the 5D MK II Gray market cameras are anything more than a reflection of currency exchange rates coupled with typical end of the year inventory clearances. A look at the price history for most products shows the reductions every fall.

Even the Sony A7R II is on sale now.


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## Chaitanya (Sep 30, 2015)

Excited to see what Canon brings to table: 4K, DPAF, and a better sensor are a must at this point.


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## keriboi (Sep 30, 2015)

Make the 5div but also make one with a 12mp sensor for low light. Have two


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## gsealy (Sep 30, 2015)

Chaitanya said:


> Excited to see what Canon brings to table: 4K, DPAF, and a better sensor are a must at this point.



I would think so given that there are competitor cameras in that price ranges with 4K and that this announcement is next year. Even the i6 has 4K. But you never know.


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## PureClassA (Sep 30, 2015)

We will get a single 24-28MP variety. Being that this DSLR body is still widely used for video, I just can't imagine not putting in 4k. That said, IF Canon surprises us with two models (24-28mp for stills with 1080p plus a second "C" version with a lower MP count for 4k to avoid binning and built more for video) then everyone's happy.

Canon really needs to get itself into the 4k game in the $2k -3.5k range. The market there is already well established, particularly for EF mount.


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## TeT (Sep 30, 2015)

dolina said:


> ....Start saving up, I expect prices to be almost at par with the 5Ds.



5Ds starting to look pretty reasonable as we get closer to the end of the year!


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## Perio (Sep 30, 2015)

I could never understand why Canon releases 5d series in March... why not to do that before Christmas or New Year? I did hope the new camera would be available before New Year, but it looks like I need to pick up either 5ds or something else as a gift.


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## Ulric Wolf (Sep 30, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> IF Canon surprises us with two models (24-28mp for stills with 1080p plus a second "C" version with a lower MP count for 4k to avoid binning and built more for video) then everyone's happy.



I'm just changing to Sony then and a lot of people will - there is no point to buy two (or even then 4 if we are counting a backup) cameras if I am pro photographer, but I shoot video too - it's almost 50/50 for me. And I'm not alone like that. It is critical to have 4k and 28mp - it shouldn't be a low light monster, mut be compiting with 5D3 or 6D at least. If canon will go Sony way (making a7R2 and a7S2 - both shooting 4k, but S is low light monster) than it's ok. But it is MUST to have good quality photos + 4k.


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## EOBeav (Sep 30, 2015)

That means you should be able to expect a ~$2kUSD 5DmkIII by this Christmas.


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## vscd (Sep 30, 2015)

Ulric Wolf said:


> I'm just changing to Sony then and a lot of people will [...]But it is MUST to have good quality photos + 4k.



I don't need 4k and I don't want it on my cam. So, what now? Please switch to Sony. Really. Although there seems to be something which keeps you from doing it until now... don't know what it is. 4k is in the A7R2, along with sooooooooo much Dynamic Range, more Resolution and everything will be better afterwards.

For me it's more important to keep the bodyprice reasonable, maybe below $2500. And it has to be a good photo-cam, not a pimped videorecorder.


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## brad-man (Sep 30, 2015)

EOBeav said:


> That means you should be able to expect a ~$2kUSD 5DmkIII by this Christmas.





http://www.ebay.com/itm/141783416357?item=141783416357&lgeo=1&vectorid=229466&rmvSB=true


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## Big_Ant_TV_Media (Sep 30, 2015)

well i said this months ago 
they announce it by feb-march and it be released april-may or even late june
just like others i will be saving as well 
i dnt have a need for 4K video but a 22-25 maybe even 30 megapixels would be great with 8-10fps for action
and even better low light and less noise across all the high ISOs with some wfi/nfc along being able too use EFS lenses
also bring on DPAF


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## EOBeav (Sep 30, 2015)

brad-man said:


> http://www.ebay.com/itm/141783416357?item=141783416357&lgeo=1&vectorid=229466&rmvSB=true



I'll amend my comment. You should expect a ~$2kUSD 5DmkIII by this Christmas_ from a reputable dealer_.


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## TeT (Sep 30, 2015)

EOBeav said:


> brad-man said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.ebay.com/itm/141783416357?item=141783416357&lgeo=1&vectorid=229466&rmvSB=true
> ...



This is a reputable dealer. Just no warranty so if there is anything wrong you need to get it squared immediately.
I expect to buy a new 5DIII for less than $1700.00 by years end... Grey market, eBay...


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## Mars1954 (Sep 30, 2015)

Perio said:


> I could never understand why Canon releases 5d series in March... why not to do that before Christmas or New Year? I did hope the new camera would be available before New Year, but it looks like I need to pick up either 5ds or something else as a gift.


 The original 5D, 5D Mk 2 and 5 D Mk 3 have always been desirable for wedding photographers a March announcement makes a lot of sense because the unofficial wedding season runs from about April to October for a a lot of pro wedding photogrpahers.


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## unfocused (Sep 30, 2015)

TeT said:


> EOBeav said:
> 
> 
> > brad-man said:
> ...



Well maybe there is a warranty.

[quote author=Canon Price Watch]

http://www.canonpricewatch.com/blog/authorized-unauthorized-dealers-and-grey-market-explained/

Warranty: By the book, you only get warranty in the region your item was originally destined for. If you have a Canon Japan camera, technically you’d have to send your camera back to them for warranty service. In practice though, Canon USA is extremely lenient with its warranty service, especially if you bought the body in the USA. We’ve never had a reader tell us their US-bought camera was rejected for warranty service. Note, the above statement doesn’t apply to clearly imported versions (i.e. different camera name (650D vs. T4i), tampered serial number, etc).

Canon USA repair centers have stated they can’t figure out what’s import vs not based on serial number. We’ve had a few readers tell us that sending a non-US version body for warranty repair was successful, but not enough overwhelming evidence for us to loudly announce it. At this time we recommend trying to send items in for warranty repair, even if they’re import version; Canon seems to stand behind their products and that’s a good thing! Contrast this with Nikon: Nikon USA repair centers won’t touch a grey market item, even if you’re paying for the repair!

Note, in this situation, warranty is at the discretion of Canon and they can unilaterally change their policies at any time.


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## jeffa4444 (Sep 30, 2015)

The Canon 5D MKIII first public showing was at The Photography Show in Birmingham, England in 2012 the dates for the show next year are March 19th - 22nd. This year the show was packed so I think it a strong chance Canon would show its replacement there if its ready.


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## douglaurent (Sep 30, 2015)

Canon should focus on developing lenses and stop releasing DLSR's. Mirrorless is the future. Not too long after a 5D4 comes out there will be an A7R3, which probably solves all the few left specs that have still been in favor of Canon. Because of their long product cycles and to save their pro Camera division, Canon will be more and more behind each year, and with a mirror their Cameras will never be able to compete again in certain points with Sony full frame and other coming mirrorless concepts. Sony is clever enough to let the A-Mount die and focus on a Mount with lenses that can support nearly any lens system on this planet (I even used MFT lenses on that).


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## hotforphotog (Oct 1, 2015)

EOBeav said:


> brad-man said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.ebay.com/itm/141783416357?item=141783416357&lgeo=1&vectorid=229466&rmvSB=true
> ...



After rebates and selling the bundled printer, I got my 5dIII from B&H for just about $2k about 6 months ago. Couldn't pass on that deal.


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## Machaon (Oct 1, 2015)

Mars1954 said:


> The original 5D, 5D Mk 2 and 5 D Mk 3 have always been desirable for wedding photographers a March announcement makes a lot of sense because the unofficial wedding season runs from about April to October for a a lot of pro wedding photogrpahers.



There is a big difference between announcing and shipping in numbers to supply the market.

A March announcement would be too late for shipping during much of that season.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 1, 2015)

Perio said:


> I could never understand why Canon releases 5d series in March... why not to do that before Christmas or New Year? I did hope the new camera would be available before New Year, but it looks like I need to pick up either 5ds or something else as a gift.



I never got why they announced the 5D2 and some others in late Nov! These things are kinda specialized and pricey as stocking stuffers, plus in many major population centers of the world where these sell well, releasing on your schedule means they come out just after wedding seasons ends, after fall foliage shooting is over, after all the major summer and fall sports seasons are over, summer vacation and trip photography is over, spring and summer macro insect shooting is over, etc. etc.

It makes 10000x more sense to these spring releases!
Plus with the spring release people are more desperate to pay original list price instead of say putting it off for next spring once price comes down since they may want it for the spring weddings, a big summer trip, etc. etc.


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## dolina (Oct 1, 2015)

The 5D Mark III replacement would need to keep up with A7S II and A7R II have 4K resolution video.

It would be laughable it it doesnt.


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## Orangutan (Oct 1, 2015)

dolina said:


> It would be laughable it it doesnt.



Maybe, but the real question is whether it would be profitable. As long as people choose Canon cameras, with whatever deficits people see, there is no market pressure to change product strategy.

To be clear, I'd love Canon products to have all of those competitive features as well; however, in the end, it need only be competitive in profit for it to be a good business decision for Canon.


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## jrista (Oct 1, 2015)

Really hoping we'll get some darn spec leaks soon. 

I need at least 8fps, as the 6fps of the 5D III is frustrating for BIF and even general bird photography and wildlife it doesn't give me the best frames.

I would also like an AF system that doesn't have an intrinsic inter-frame jitter. The 5D III isn't nearly as bad as the 7D was, but I still get slightly out of focus shots and I can feel focus shifting ever so slightly back and forth each frame. Hoping Canon's iTR system would take care of that.

I'm quite eager to retire my 5D III.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Oct 1, 2015)

dilbert said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > Perio said:
> ...



true but for a long time, somehow they seemed to time everything for just when everything was over and to treat stuff that really wasn't stocking stuffers as stocking stuffers.


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## meywd (Oct 1, 2015)

jrista said:


> Really hoping we'll get some darn spec leaks soon.
> 
> I need at least 8fps, as the 6fps of the 5D III is frustrating for BIF and even general bird photography and wildlife it doesn't give me the best frames.
> 
> ...



+1, but why not get a grey market 1D X, then again I guess you want the sensor upgrades that will come with the 5D IV


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## tvexecutive (Oct 1, 2015)

The new 1DX MK II will not be out until the cows come home..... 



Canon Rumors said:


> We’re told that the Canon EOS 5D Mark IV will be announced before NAB 2016 in April. How far in advance of the show, we’re not sure. We do note that WPPI is at the beginning of March 2016, while products are rarely announced for that show, WPPI (wedding photographers) is a big target market for the EOS 5D Mark IV.</p>
> <p>We’re expecting a new Cinema EOS camera for NAB in April, so I don’t think a stills DSLR will get announced specifically for that show either.</p>
> <p>While the EOS-1D X successor is expected first, we haven’t been told when that will be unleashed on the masses.</p>
> <p>No specifications were given for the EOS 5D Mark IV at this time.</p>


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## jrista (Oct 1, 2015)

meywd said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > Really hoping we'll get some darn spec leaks soon.
> ...



I definitely want the IQ improvements. The 1D X is the noisiest sensor Canon has. Compared to the noise levels I'm used to working with these days, it's INSANELY noisy. I also want much better resolution than that as well, as with birds, you often have to crop a decent amount (even with a 600mm lens). I also do not want the big body. I am very comfortable with the 5D III body size and ergonomics. It balances my 600mm f/4 very nicely at just the right point...when I add the battery grip, I have to shift the lens forward far enough that the dovetail that clips into my Joby Pro 2 ends up hitting the bottom of the gimbal, scratching it up. 

For my action photography, the 5D line is ideal for me. And I cannot go backwards on the IQ front. I would also much rather have better IQ than the 5D IV is likely to have...I seriously doubt it is getting a DR upgrade. However I am kind of locked into the system after having spent so much money on lenses (and mainly, THE lens). Finally, I have other astrophotography needs that dwarf my terrestrial photography needs. I need over $20,000 in astro equipment that I would like to get within the next year. A 5D IV may not even find its way into my hands until some time 2017 in the face of all that...


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## RobPan (Oct 1, 2015)

Too late for me. I will need a camera to replace my stolen 5D3 before January, when I will leave for Indonesia. I'm afraid it will be a Sony a7Rii for me this time. Bye, Canon! I will have been waiting for almost a year but in vain.


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## Ozarker (Oct 1, 2015)

EOBeav said:


> That means you should be able to expect a ~$2kUSD 5DmkIII by this Christmas.



Heck, after instant savings, rebates ($350), a free year of Adobe Lightroom/Photoshop ($119.88 value to me because my subscription just ran out) and a free year of Kelby One training ($239.40 value to me because I need it), I just picked one up at B&H for a net cost of $1,789.00 no sales tax and free shipping... plus I got to keep the Canon Pro-100 printer and other goodies. 

I'm happy ;D That is from B&H... a very reputable dealer. That's $2,028.40 if you don't care about Kelby One.

With a release price of $3,499 back in 2012 I am happily behind the technological curve. It is an amazing camera that will take me forever to outgrow. 

Thank you Canon.


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## M_S (Oct 1, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> We will get a single 24-28MP variety. Being that this DSLR body is still widely used for video, I just can't imagine not putting in 4k. That said, IF Canon surprises us with two models (24-28mp for stills with 1080p plus a second "C" version with a lower MP count for 4k to avoid binning and built more for video) then everyone's happy.
> 
> Canon really needs to get itself into the 4k game in the $2k -3.5k range. The market there is already well established, particularly for EF mount.



It would be a totally WRONG approach to leave out 4K out of this camera. Even the A7RII has it and more will come. To stay ahead of the game they should really think hard to add it to the features and put som 60fps on it, along with some nice log-curves and video-assist features (zebras, focus pinching etc.) for crying out loud. If this is not in a Canon pro-camera of 2016, I don't see Canon realising what time it is now.


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## Hector1970 (Oct 1, 2015)

It's been a great camera (the 5D III). Mine is looking a little worn out these days. There is plenty of metal visible on the outside of the camera (I hope version IV has a more hard wearing coat - part of this is my fault, slings cause more body wear). 
I'm looking forward to seeing the actual specs of version IV.
I'd like a fast frame rate.
Better indicator of focus lock.
Better dynamic range
Better ISO performance
I'd like a higher MP (somewhere around 30MP).
More choice on settings for exposure length (eg I could choose how many seconds or minutes)
In view finder level
Lighting up of focus points
I'd prefer dual SD size cards
I'm not terribly interested in 4K video but I'd love 960FPS at 720 or 1080 (a wish) and more than two seconds worth.


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## alexanderferdinand (Oct 1, 2015)

The Mk III was (already sold it) kind of a hatelove for me.
Superb IQ, IF I exposed correct. Was not easy with the constant underexposure in situations with low contrast, trying to avoid blown out lights, having a too dark RAW, and the recovering of shadows was not a strenght of this sensor.

AF was top notch, although bit too much centered.

The Mk IV can have same resolution, much better DR please, and a metering system based on 18% gray (and not 12%).
Yes- faster, 8fps would be fine.
4k: I dont care but I see it as a dealbraker for many of us.


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## romanr74 (Oct 1, 2015)

Ulric Wolf said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > IF Canon surprises us with two models (24-28mp for stills with 1080p plus a second "C" version with a lower MP count for 4k to avoid binning and built more for video) then everyone's happy.
> ...



how do you know what a lot of people will do?


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## romanr74 (Oct 1, 2015)

douglaurent said:


> Canon should focus on developing lenses and stop releasing DLSR's. Mirrorless is the future. Not too long after a 5D4 comes out there will be an A7R3, which probably solves all the few left specs that have still been in favor of Canon. Because of their long product cycles and to save their pro Camera division, Canon will be more and more behind each year, and with a mirror their Cameras will never be able to compete again in certain points with Sony full frame and other coming mirrorless concepts. Sony is clever enough to let the A-Mount die and focus on a Mount with lenses that can support nearly any lens system on this planet (I even used MFT lenses on that).



i beg you pardon...


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## daniela (Oct 1, 2015)

My friends in Japan told me, that there are just a few rumors around. And nobody knows if they are true. Most of them about the 1DX II and 5DIV. It is said, Canon managers are astonished, how good the Sony 7R MK2 is wellcomed by the press. There is still an in-house discussion about an increase of the planned built in features of the MK IV. They will watch the sales of the competitors and the 5DS(r) and then decide if they want to compete Sony and the coming Nikon successors.
What seems to be plausible: availability before olympic games, maybe just in America (south and north). Other say, it will be available in June (soccer EM in France). But let us see, what comes true.


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## Tugela (Oct 1, 2015)

PureClassA said:


> We will get a single 24-28MP variety. Being that this DSLR body is still widely used for video, I just can't imagine not putting in 4k. That said, IF Canon surprises us with two models (24-28mp for stills with 1080p plus a second "C" version with a lower MP count for 4k to avoid binning and built more for video) then everyone's happy.
> 
> Canon really needs to get itself into the 4k game in the $2k -3.5k range. The market there is already well established, particularly for EF mount.



To be competitive in that market they need to get rid of the mirror. The logical path forward into the 4K hybrid market is to make an upmarket EOS-M, and that likely won't happen until they can produce an improved processor. A Digic 7 will be able to shoot 4K (it will be the stills version of the DV5), but it may lack the power efficiency to be practical in an EOS-M body. In that case you may have to wait for the Digic 8, and by then everyone else would have moved on to the next step in performance. 

I am afraid that Canon are well and truly on the back foot and at the back of the pack when it comes to hybrid 4K, and they are probably going to stay that way for the foreseeable future.


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## wockawocka (Oct 1, 2015)

Tilt screen is important for me in the 5D4, no tilt screen will mean I'll carry on shooting my dual 5DSr's unless there is a massive boost in ISO performance and (clean) shadow push.

Right now I'm not sure if I'd buy one. Cameras are so good at the moment anyway it's hard to screw up an image.


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## DavidAutumns (Oct 1, 2015)

Morning what happened to the potential announcement at the PhotoPlus Expo 21-24 Oct?

Has this rumour had cold water poured on it?

Dave


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## dolina (Oct 1, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> dolina said:
> 
> 
> > It would be laughable it it doesnt.
> ...


Any top end smartphone starting from $500 has 4k resolution video. They can even do 720p at 240fps.

Sony was genius in deciding to focus as an image sensor OEM for any device rather than directly but heads with canon and now they are benefiting from it.


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## whothafunk (Oct 1, 2015)

dolina said:


> Any top end smartphone starting from $500 has 4k resolution video.


does it really matter? 4k resolution =/= 4k quality. from my experience, downscalled 4k gopro video is somewhat in the range of DSLR 1080p quality, and even that is open for a debate. same goes for phones, those small sensors arent worth much in my eyes. just a gimmick


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## StudentOfLight (Oct 1, 2015)

dilbert said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > We will get a single 24-28MP variety. Being that this DSLR body is still widely used for video, I just can't imagine not putting in 4k. That said, IF Canon surprises us with two models (24-28mp for stills with 1080p plus a second "C" version with a lower MP count for 4k to avoid binning and built more for video) then everyone's happy.
> ...


Is the the C100 Mark-II a full frame DSLR or a crop sensor mirrorless camera?


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## dolina (Oct 1, 2015)

whothafunk said:


> dolina said:
> 
> 
> > Any top end smartphone starting from $500 has 4k resolution video.
> ...


Having video in an SLR is a gimmick!


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## GMCPhotographics (Oct 1, 2015)

dolina said:


> whothafunk said:
> 
> 
> > dolina said:
> ...



Actually...it's not. I regularly see news film crews on the streets of London with hand cam 5DIII rigs. Just because you don't don't have a need or use...doesn't means that other's shouldn't. But 4K....I don't really see the market. Unless there are hoards of skint indie film makers who want to make movies on the cheap. 

4K video through an iphone lens....hmmm....I'm sure the quality will be great :


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## Etienne (Oct 1, 2015)

dolina said:


> whothafunk said:
> 
> 
> > dolina said:
> ...



An awful lot of Pros and even Hollywood films love to use the 'gimmick' that the armchair hacks love to deride.


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## raptor3x (Oct 1, 2015)

jrista said:


> I definitely want the IQ improvements. The 1D X is the noisiest sensor Canon has. Compared to the noise levels I'm used to working with these days, it's INSANELY noisy.



Just curious where you're getting this from. I've owned pretty much every Canon FF body at this point and this has been the exact opposite of my experience. DxO and Sensorgen seem to disagree with you as well.


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## dolina (Oct 1, 2015)

GMCPhotographics said:


> Actually...it's not. I regularly see news film crews on the streets of London with hand cam 5DIII rigs. Just because you don't don't have a need or use...doesn't means that other's shouldn't. But 4K....I don't really see the market. Unless there are hoards of skint indie film makers who want to make movies on the cheap.
> 
> 4K video through an iphone lens....hmmm....I'm sure the quality will be great :


Same thing were said about SLRs with video in 2008. 

4K is just 8MP at 30fps so if people are happy with 8MP stills then why not at 30 frames in a second?

Same goes with built-in WiFi. It should be included already... it'll be 2016 when it gets into people's hands.


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## DLD (Oct 1, 2015)

Hi I'm new here.

I recently switched back to Canon from Nikon and currently use a 6D. I chose the 6D because I felt it had a bit better dynamic range over the 5d Mark III. I hope the new Mark IV has greatly improved dynamic range without ugly binding. My Nikon D610 was simply amazing in that regard and had very smooth looking images even at high iso with great dynamic range. However I didn't like the ergonomics and was missing shots while fiddling with all the buttons which are everywhere on the camera... So I came back to Canon in hopes the new models will at least be as good. Then I'd be very happy indeed... 

Thanks...


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## Ulric Wolf (Oct 1, 2015)

vscd said:


> Ulric Wolf said:
> 
> 
> > I'm just changing to Sony then and a lot of people will [...]But it is MUST to have good quality photos + 4k.
> ...



You are talking bulls*it - if You need just a photo - You have plenty of options already - buy a 6D, 7D2, for god sake 5D3. There is Noikon D610, D750, D810, there is coming 6DII. What else do You need? 5D was always universal camera, 5D2 was camera that made DSLR video industry. So stop talking bulls*it, 5D4 must have to be universal for anything.


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## PureClassA (Oct 1, 2015)

I don't believe they need to go mirrorless to do it. Loads of video/cinema guys use the 5D3 and 5D2 currently (many with ML). So I don't see the body form being in the way whatsoever. I think a solid built DSLR 4k machine would be a very welcome issue, particularly when so many are already ergonomically used to it



Tugela said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > We will get a single 24-28MP variety. Being that this DSLR body is still widely used for video, I just can't imagine not putting in 4k. That said, IF Canon surprises us with two models (24-28mp for stills with 1080p plus a second "C" version with a lower MP count for 4k to avoid binning and built more for video) then everyone's happy.
> ...


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## fragilesi (Oct 1, 2015)

Ulric Wolf said:


> You are talking bulls*it - if You need just a photo - You have plenty of options already - buy a 6D, 7D2, for god sake 5D3. There is Noikon D610, D750, D810, there is coming 6DII. What else do You need? 5D was always universal camera, 5D2 was camera that made DSLR video industry. So stop talking bulls*it, 5D4 must have to be universal for anything.



Strange post.

Many of us buy DSLRs to take stills with no, or just occasional video. 4k would be of mild interest but for me just a curio for a dull moment. If the 5D IV is better at taking photos plenty of people will want it regardless of video capability.


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## bdunbar79 (Oct 1, 2015)

jrista said:


> meywd said:
> 
> 
> > jrista said:
> ...



The 1Dx is the noisiest sensor Canon has? Come on man, you know that's not true at all.


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## scyrene (Oct 1, 2015)

alexanderferdinand said:


> The Mk III was (already sold it) kind of a hatelove for me.
> Superb IQ, IF I exposed correct. Was not easy with the constant underexposure in situations with low contrast, trying to avoid blown out lights, having a too dark RAW, and the recovering of shadows was not a strenght of this sensor.
> 
> AF was top notch, although bit too much centered.
> ...



I don't understand... can you elaborate the cause of your exposure problems? I don't have that, but maybe I'm so used to the camera I've forgotten.


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## scyrene (Oct 1, 2015)

Tugela said:


> PureClassA said:
> 
> 
> > We will get a single 24-28MP variety. Being that this DSLR body is still widely used for video, I just can't imagine not putting in 4k. That said, IF Canon surprises us with two models (24-28mp for stills with 1080p plus a second "C" version with a lower MP count for 4k to avoid binning and built more for video) then everyone's happy.
> ...



Ironically - whether or not any of this is true - a larger body should be better at dissipating heat, so you'd think a DSLR would have the edge in 4K in that regard at least.


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## Ulric Wolf (Oct 1, 2015)

fragilesi said:


> Ulric Wolf said:
> 
> 
> > You are talking bulls*it - if You need just a photo - You have plenty of options already - buy a 6D, 7D2, for god sake 5D3. There is Noikon D610, D750, D810, there is coming 6DII. What else do You need? 5D was always universal camera, 5D2 was camera that made DSLR video industry. So stop talking bulls*it, 5D4 must have to be universal for anything.
> ...



No, it's not strange at all - Your post is strange. Canon already have a lot of great stills cameras. Newest one - 5Ds. Use it. Canon was one who introducet video in DSLR's so they made this market. And there are working millions of people in it now because of Canon. Canon just can't afford to lose big part of it it and it will lose them if they wont introduce 4k in their next pro camera. You are thinking very in the box, only about yourself. If I would take only photos - I would buy 5Ds without questions - it's great camera for stills.


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## scyrene (Oct 1, 2015)

whothafunk said:


> dolina said:
> 
> 
> > Any top end smartphone starting from $500 has 4k resolution video.
> ...



Also, phones do other things that we wouldn't ask cameras to do, like make phone calls. The basic argument 'a phone does X, therefore a DSLR should' is invalid.

Is it, as I imagine, easier to do 4K from a smaller sensor? I assume that explains in part why so many phones do it already, whereas most dedicated cameras don't yet?


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## scyrene (Oct 1, 2015)

dolina said:


> GMCPhotographics said:
> 
> 
> > Actually...it's not. I regularly see news film crews on the streets of London with hand cam 5DIII rigs. Just because you don't don't have a need or use...doesn't means that other's shouldn't. But 4K....I don't really see the market. Unless there are hoards of skint indie film makers who want to make movies on the cheap.
> ...



Of course, burst shooting rarely lasts more than a second or two. 4K is 8MP at 24+fps for minutes on end.


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## scyrene (Oct 1, 2015)

Ulric Wolf said:


> vscd said:
> 
> 
> > Ulric Wolf said:
> ...



Great way to introduce yourself to the forum.


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## privatebydesign (Oct 1, 2015)

Ulric Wolf said:


> fragilesi said:
> 
> 
> > Ulric Wolf said:
> ...



Given that good quality 1080 upressed retains higher IQ than poor native 4K I can easily see Canon putting enhanced 1DC capabilities into the 1DX MkII and leaving 4K out of the 5D MkIV, but making the 1080 (or slightly bigger) really good. 

If this happens then as usual people on forums and early review sites will moan and laugh and say it is DOA, then people will buy it and use it and the IQ will trump the doubters who won't care because their next page hit will come from the Sony spec sheet, they will talk Sony up to be an unassailable world beater, the Canon will comfortably out sell it and then we start again with the MkV speculation.


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## dolina (Oct 1, 2015)

scyrene said:


> Of course, burst shooting rarely lasts more than a second or two. 4K is 8MP at 24+fps for minutes on end.


Canon has to present features that are compelling enough to get current owners and new users to buy into the replacement bodies.

These are 2 features a lot of us would want to have or else we'll just skip this again and Canon can enjoy another decline in sales again.


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## privatebydesign (Oct 1, 2015)

dolina said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > Of course, burst shooting rarely lasts more than a second or two. 4K is 8MP at 24+fps for minutes on end.
> ...



Not necessarily, many amateur users are now shooting tens of thousands, and even hundreds of thousands of images in the four years it takes for a new body to come out. What are they going to buy? Many pro users cycle their bodies for reliability and tax advantages, what are they going to buy? Another one fo what they have or a new version that has some minor changes? It isn't the minor changes that makes them change, it is the product cycle.


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## privatebydesign (Oct 1, 2015)

kraats said:


> If they don't implement a Sony sensor like Nikon did they are done with DSLR' s.



Interesting you say that, Canon sell more DSLR's than anybody else yet you can confidently say that if they don't change one aspect of those cameras they are _"done"_? I think you are deluded.


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 1, 2015)

kraats said:


> If they don't implement a Sony sensor like Nikon did they are done with DSLR' s.



What if they utilize a Toshiba sensor like Nikon did?


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## scyrene (Oct 2, 2015)

dolina said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > Of course, burst shooting rarely lasts more than a second or two. 4K is 8MP at 24+fps for minutes on end.
> ...



Maybe. I think sales declines are generally related to a saturated market, etc. Personally, they came out with the most important feature I wanted, which was higher resolution. I just haven't saved up for the 5DS yet


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## dolina (Oct 2, 2015)

scyrene said:


> Maybe. I think sales declines are generally related to a saturated market, etc. Personally, they came out with the most important feature I wanted, which was higher resolution. I just haven't saved up for the 5DS yet


That's what I said. 

If they want a saturated market (current owners) to buy into new gear they need more compelling features than just MP, ISO, fps and AA filter cancelation.

I would not have bought the 5Ds R if I had a 5D Mark III.

I see 4K resolution video and wifi as compelling enough new features.

If Canon could do a macro where in they can resize on the fly for sharing on the Internet then that would be cool too!.

Despite the bandwagon of friends moving to mirrorless I am still sticking to the SLR standard or I'd rather buy into a new smartphone like the Xperia Z5 Premium, Nexus 6P or iPhone 6S Plus.


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## YuengLinger (Oct 2, 2015)

It would be very hip if a new 50mm 1.2L were announced to go with it! 8)   ;D


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## jrista (Oct 2, 2015)

raptor3x said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > I definitely want the IQ improvements. The 1D X is the noisiest sensor Canon has. Compared to the noise levels I'm used to working with these days, it's INSANELY noisy.
> ...



To quote sensorgen:



> "Model	EOS-1DX	100	80	38.5	90101	11.2"



Find me a camera this generation or later with base read noise that high anywhere else. 38.5e-! That is insane!

I use my 5D III occasionally for landscapes, but I can't stand it's read noise either. It's 33e-. Still insanely high. High ISO is certainly a different story, but I can get low read noise (4e- or less) at high ISO with just about any camera on the market, I don't need a 1D X for that. 

I also intend to use any future Canon DSLR I get for astro as well. Buying a full frame CCD camera is a minimum of $10k, and a better large sensor CCD is as much as $45,000. The best way to get a full frame field with astro is with full frame DSLRs. I use the 5D III as low as ISO 400, but the poor low ISO DR stops me there. The 5D III has so little DR at ISO 400 and up that I never get away with unclipped stars. Even 12 stops of DR on a 5D IV would be huge for my astro work.


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## Perio (Oct 2, 2015)

jrista said:


> raptor3x said:
> 
> 
> > jrista said:
> ...



I don't do astrophotography, but why you do not consider Pentax 645D if you need a CCD sensor? It can be bought for relatively inexpensive prices these days.


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## mclaren777 (Oct 2, 2015)

EOBeav said:


> I'll amend my comment. You should expect a ~$2kUSD 5DmkIII by this Christmas_ from a reputable dealer_.


It's been right around $2200 for months.

http://shop.usa.canon.com/shop/en/catalog/eos-5d-mark-iii-body-refurbished


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## fragilesi (Oct 2, 2015)

Ulric Wolf said:


> fragilesi said:
> 
> 
> > Ulric Wolf said:
> ...



No your post was genuinely strange, quite why you replied so rudely to the previous poster I don't know. You now say I am only thinking of myself. Well of course, I'm telling you that I don't care about 4k in the slightest. What I'm not doing is trying to make out that if Canon don't do what *I* want then they are wrong . . .


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## alexanderferdinand (Oct 2, 2015)

scyrene said:


> alexanderferdinand said:
> 
> 
> > The Mk III was (already sold it) kind of a hatelove for me.
> ...



Especially for you the short version: irregular underexposed


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## arthurbikemad (Oct 2, 2015)

I don't care about video at all, I'd not avoid a 5D4 if it had NO video, I just want a DSLR thats fast 10FPS? Has great DR, built in Radio Trigger maybe? Great AF etc etc, Oh, and takes the same batteries as my Mk3


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## scyrene (Oct 2, 2015)

alexanderferdinand said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > alexanderferdinand said:
> ...



Um, ok. Just sounds like maybe a fault, rather than the way the camera is meant to act.


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## raptor3x (Oct 2, 2015)

jrista said:


> raptor3x said:
> 
> 
> > jrista said:
> ...



That number shouldn't be surprising at all, read noise scales linearly with pixel area. If we used the exact same technology as the 5D3 to make the 1DX we'd expect something like 33e * (22.3/18.0) ~ 40.6e read noise on a pixel basis. You can't just look at the read noise of a pixel in isolation though, that doesn't really tell you much about how "noisy" the picture will be. You have to look at the ratio between the read noise and mid-tone signal or maximum signal. That's what really tells you something about the quality of the sensor.


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## privatebydesign (Oct 2, 2015)

alexanderferdinand said:


> The Mk III was (already sold it) kind of a hatelove for me.
> Superb IQ, IF I exposed correct. Was not easy with the constant underexposure in situations with low contrast, trying to avoid blown out lights, having a too dark RAW, and the recovering of shadows was not a strenght of this sensor.
> 
> AF was top notch, although bit too much centered.
> ...



All digital cameras meter to 12% because that is what the ANSI standard is. If you want to meter to 18% just put in +1/2 exposure compensation.

http://www.bythom.com/graycards.htm


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 2, 2015)

raptor3x said:


> That number shouldn't be surprising at all, read noise scales linearly with pixel area.



Shouldn't the A7S have a higher RN than the 1Dx, then?

```
ISO 	Measured ISO    Read Noise (e-)       Pixel size
Model 	EOS-1DX 	 100 	80 	               38.5            6.9 micron
Model 	A7S 	         100  	80 	               21.9            8.3 micron
```

That being said, if someone was offering, I'd take the 1Dx


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## raptor3x (Oct 2, 2015)

3kramd5 said:


> raptor3x said:
> 
> 
> > That number shouldn't be surprising at all, read noise scales linearly with pixel area.
> ...



Sony's using superior technology that gives lower read noise so you can't really compare them directly. A better comparison would be a Nikon D600 with a D800.

Model	D800	100	74	4.6	48818	13.4
Model	D600	100	79	7.4	76444	13.3

Read noise ratio is (7.4/4.6) ~ 1.6 and pixel area ratio (rough estimate since I'm not accounting for fill factor differences)is (5.9/4.7)^2 ~ 1.57.


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## jrista (Oct 2, 2015)

Perio said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > raptor3x said:
> ...



A proper CCD camera is purpose-built for what we as astrophotographers do. For one, they are monochrome, thus delivering a 100% fill factor (vs. the 50% green and 25% red/blue fill factors with a bayer CFA matrix.) CCD cameras usually have extremely high quantum efficiency these days, 78% EQE for modern Sony ICX sensors. Even a high IQE CMOS sensor has at most 40% EQE in any given color channel, and often as little as 30% or less. They use multi-stage peltier (TEC) cooling, and the cameras I am interested in can regulate temperature to within 0.1°C at -45dT from ambient. That means throughout the year, I can maintain sub-freezing sensor temperatures, which is a critical factor for minimizing noise from dark current. A proper CCD camera is either compatible with, or in the case of the cameras I am interested in, has built in, a filter wheel that can hold LRGB and narrow band filters. With filters, you get that 100% high sensitivity fill factor for every color channel. With narrow band, you can image under heavily light polluted skies for specific emission bands like hydrogen alpha, hydrogen beta, oxygen III, sulfur II, nitrogen II, and others if your interested (although they get significantly more difficult to pick up for other emission bands). CCD cameras are also usually built with much cleaner readout noise. For a brand like QSI or FLI, there is no banding, no pattern...just pure, random read noise that follows an ideal gaussian distribution. 

Having purely random noise is key to getting the most out of the stacking process, where multiple individual sub frames are combined to produce a single high signal strength/low noise "integration". Random noise averages out and is suppressed by the stacking process. Non-random noise, such as hot pixels, banding, etc. will CORRELATE through the stacking process, and only become reinforced, like any other signal.

CCD cameras often have higher read noise than DSLRs/Mirrorless. The common KAF sensors have around 7e- RN, and the Sony ICX sensors have ~5e-. In practice, sometimes they are slightly less. CMOS sensors in DSLRs often have as low as 2-3e- read noise at higher ISO. Another BIG difference between CCD and CMOS sensors, though, is the dynamic range. A CCD camera will usually be 16-bit, and will use a gain value that is specifically chosen to maximize the potential use of the full potential well. Dynamic range of a CCD camera can be significantly higher than a CMOS camera at high ISO. This gap in dynamic range becomes even more true when you account for the additional dark current noise that a DSLR has, vs. the minimal dark current that a temperature regulated CCD has. The additional noise from dark current reduced dynamic range of the DSLRs even further. 

As an example, my 5D III during the summer has as much as 3-5e- dark current PER SECOND per pixel. For a 300 second sub exposure length, that is as much as SQRT(5*300) additional noise, or 38.7e-! Combined with read noise at say ISO 800 (one of my commonly used ISO settings, with a rather high read noise level of 6.1e-!), it would be SQRT((5*300) + 6.1^2), or a total of 39.2e- noise. Dark current can and will utterly decimate dynamic range in a camera like that. In contrast, a Sony Exmor may have around 0.8e-/s/px dark current at the same temperature, and 3e- read noise. That leaves us with SQRT(0.8*300 + 3^2), or 15.7e- noise. However a CCD is still significanly better than either of those. A KAF-8300 sensor (very popular sensor) has about 0.02e-/s/px dark current at a regulated temperature of -15C. For a 300s exposure, dark current is a mere 6e-, and read noise is 7e-. That gives us SQRT(6+7^2) or 7.4e- total noise. A Sony ICX sensor has as little as 0.003e-/s/px dark current at only -10C, and 4.5e- read noise, so SQRT(3 + 4.5^2) or 4.8e- total noise. The Sony cameras have around 20ke- FWC and the KAF has 25.5ke- FWC. That gives us dynamic ranges of 11.8 and 12.1 stops each. Compared to my 5D III DR at ISO 800 of 7.9 stops and say a D800 at ISO 800 of 8.8 stops.

Canon cameras have the highest pattern noise, particularly banding, of any camera I've ever used. By a SIGNIFICANT margin. CCD cameras are effectively devoid of banding and have low pattern (i.e. hot pixel, stuck pixel, dead pixel) noise. Anything that uses a Sony Exmor has almost ideal gaussian read noise characteristics, although usually not quite as good as a proper CCD. However all DSLR and mirrorless cameras except maybe one of the Leica lines are bayer CFA. The use of a color filter array decimates overall sensitivity, and the quality of the filters embedded into each pixel is low compared to the quality of say a set of Astrodon LRGB filters.

Noise is everything when it comes to astrophotography. We often gather as little as 0.12 photons per _*minute *_per pixel for faint targets, so our final signal strengths are utterly minuscule, even after sub exposure lengths as long as an hour or so. Noise is EVERYTHING to us astrophotographers.  That's probably why I am so obsessed with it.


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## jrista (Oct 2, 2015)

raptor3x said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > raptor3x said:
> ...



There isn't necessarily a scaling of read noise with pixel size. On one level, bigger pixels can accumulate more electrons in their photodiodes, so there is more to be read out, and that could, assuming everything else is identical, result in higher noise. It just takes longer to move that charge around the system, meaning there is more opportunity for noise to be introduced by the myriad of things that can introduce noise. 

However, there are also a multitude of factors that play a role in where noise is introduced and how much. Lower readout frequency will usually introduce less noise, regardless. That is usually where improvements in read noise come from. For example, the parallelization of ADC units allows each unit to be reduced in frequency, without losing overall frame readout frequency. Moving from a single ADC to a handful of parallel ADC units allowed Canon, once upon a time, to reduce their read noise a bit. As they have continued to jack up frame rate, those previous gains have been erased in some recent cameras (i.e. the 1D X). Moving to column-parallel ADC allowed Sony to greatly reduce the operating frequency of their ADC units, and paired with some other technological improvements (including fabrication process and materials), they made significant gains in lowering read noise. There are patents for future sensors with per-pixel ADC units, or the true hyper-parallelization of ADC, which allows them to operate at even lower frequency with even further reduced noise. 

There are other ways of reducing noise as well. Converting to digital at the earliest opportunity (i.e. CP-ADC or PP-ADC) allows digital transmission, and better error-corrected digital transmission, to be used, thus reducing any further potential for noise to practically nothing (it can still happen, but it's a lot more difficult for a digital signal to become corrupted when you use error-corrected transmission.) 

These kinds of improvements can be applied to pixels of any size, so there is not guaranteed to be an increase in read noise with pixel area.


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 2, 2015)

raptor3x said:


> Sony's using superior technology that gives lower read noise so you can't really compare them directly.



You can if you're a buyer in the market and aren't holding yourself to one particular generation from one particular vendor.

The concern at hand wasn't the 1DX versus another camera with the same technology using smaller pixels, it was the 1DX versus a camera with up to current technology. 



> "Find me a camera this generation or later with base read noise that high anywhere else."





> That number shouldn't be surprising at all, read noise scales linearly with pixel area.



He doesn't want it because it has high RN at base ISO. You suggested that was due to pixel area. Clearly, there's more at play than pixel area, and hence his concern with RN is valid.


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## raptor3x (Oct 2, 2015)

3kramd5 said:


> raptor3x said:
> 
> 
> > Sony's using superior technology that gives lower read noise so you can't really compare them directly.
> ...



I'm not sure what you're getting at, Jrista said that the 1DX was the noisiest Canon camera and used the 5D3 as an example. I pointed out that the 1DX is slightly less noisy than the 5D3 when you normalize for pixel size. You said "Shouldn't the A7S have a higher RN than the 1Dx, then?". But as I noted, and Jrista highlighted, pixel area isn't the only aspect that controls read noise, just one. If you look at cameras using similar technology, you'll see that the read noise scales reasonably closely with pixel area.


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## jrista (Oct 2, 2015)

raptor3x said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > raptor3x said:
> ...



+1 

With similar technology, you should see some scaling. It may not always be linear, but with the same general technology, you should see reasonably correlated scaling. Just because bigger pixels hold more charge, and it takes more to move that charge around. To move it around in the same time, you usually need to operate at a higher frequency, which will usually add more read noise.


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 2, 2015)

raptor3x said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > raptor3x said:
> ...



What I'm getting at is that he quoted the RN for the 1Dx, and immediately after said "Find me a camera this generation or later with base read noise that high anywhere else." It didn't say find me a canon camera. It was any camera, open-ended. I read everything that followed accordingly, and interpreted your post as suggesting pixel size was the dominant factor.

"It's noisy."
"Of course it's noisy, the pixels are big."

My mistake.


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## jrista (Oct 2, 2015)

3kramd5 said:


> raptor3x said:
> 
> 
> > 3kramd5 said:
> ...



Yes. The A7s is a great example of how improved technology can dramatically lower read noise. It's got huge 8.3 micron pixels, and operates at a relatively high frequency for 4k video, and still has lower read noise than the 1D X. The technological improvements are what help there. The technological improvements are what break the otherwise expected scaling of read noise with pixels size.


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## raptor3x (Oct 2, 2015)

3kramd5 said:


> "It's noisy."
> "Of course it's noisy, the pixels are big."



"It's the noisiest Canon camera"
"It's actually slightly better than the 5D3 when you account for pixel size"

I never said anything about other brand cameras in the original post. I only addressed the claim that the 1DX was the noisiest Canon camera.


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 2, 2015)

raptor3x said:


> 3kramd5 said:
> 
> 
> > "It's noisy."
> ...



Fair enough, I was just misreading (or, rather, misinterpreting).


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## JMZawodny (Oct 2, 2015)

raptor3x said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > raptor3x said:
> ...



Read noise does not scale with pixel area, dark current does. I do agree that you need to look at all of the sources of noise before making claims about "how noisy" a sensor is.


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## unfocused (Oct 2, 2015)

kraats said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > kraats said:
> ...



What utter baloney. 

Canon is "behind" in one tiny aspect of sensor technology. And, in that one area, the differences are only relevant under very limited circumstances and only at lower ISOs. They are decidedly not behind in many other aspects of sensor technology (DPAF, Extreme Low Light sensitivity, Extreme high resolution). 

Your comments aren't common sense, they are delusional.


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## privatebydesign (Oct 2, 2015)

kraats said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > kraats said:
> ...



You can't promise anything. Canon are not in _"the tech business"_ as you are implying, they are in retail, and just like VHS beating out the superior tech of Betamax, for the vast majority of buyers any camera tech available today is plenty good enough. In general, as has been proven by the sales records for many years, Canon know what they are doing and the desires of their customers far better than a vocal minority of a minuscule subsample of users found on forums like this.

People have said _"they really have to come with something good"_ with every iteration of the 5, M, and 1 series, every single time people have laughed and derided and decried the spec sheets on release, and every single time the cameras have sold well and been well liked by the vast majority of their owners.

As for competitiveness, how competitive are Nikon and Sony in the lens market? They pale by comparison; how about the flash market? Canon wipe the floor with both with the 600-EX-RT and 430EX-III RT system.

Grow up, take some pictures, there are far more limitations placed on your creative capabilities by not having the lenses and the lights than having a couple of stops less low iso DR! Now that is a fact.


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## jrista (Oct 3, 2015)

meywd said:


> +1, but why not get a grey market 1D X, then again I guess you want the sensor upgrades that will come with the 5D IV



I priced out the full kit for the QSI 683WSG-8 CCD camera I am going to get, with the filters and various upgrades I need to use it with all of my telescopes and lenses:







Even if I did want a 1D X (and I really truly don't! ), I would WAY rather spend the money on all the goodies above.


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## meywd (Oct 3, 2015)

jrista said:


> meywd said:
> 
> 
> > +1, but why not get a grey market 1D X, then again I guess you want the sensor upgrades that will come with the 5D IV
> ...



Nice and thanks for sharing, now make sure you update your website when you get them, need a reference to return to when I decide to dive in ;D, are there any high res photos taken with this camera - processed - to compare shots.


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## scyrene (Oct 3, 2015)

kraats said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > kraats said:
> ...



You're ignoring PBD's valid point. You said Canon would be "done", i.e. *******, if they didn't implement certain technologies. The reply was, sales are not based on technology, with Betamax/VHS a classic example (but not the only one). "Taking pictures is about images" has nothing to do with that argument. Most people buy cameras for reasons other than a hard-headed analysis of the technology within.

Sadly all too few armchair critics seem to know the basics of sales and marketing. Being a successful large business is about selling to lots of people, and making a profit doing so. Producing the best* possible product is not necessary (I take no pleasure in that, but it's demonstrably the case).

*even assuming 'best' could be objectively and universally defined, which is generally impossible.


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## Maiaibing (Oct 3, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> We’re told that the Canon EOS 5D Mark IV will be announced before NAB 2016 in April. How far in advance of the show, we’re not sure.



A year late for sure. The 5DIV starts to sound like vapour-ware (even if Canon has promised its on the way...). Canon should bring out a very convincing upgrade from the 5DIII after all those years. Will be a huge disappointment if Canon goes "light" with their 5Dx upgrade again...

Meanwhile enjoying my 5DSR - its a good warm-up with its improved AF and customization options which I'm sure will be available on the 5DIV.


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## jrista (Oct 3, 2015)

meywd said:


> Nice and thanks for sharing, now make sure you update your website when you get them, need a reference to return to when I decide to dive in ;D, are there any high res photos taken with this camera - processed - to compare shots.



You can try here:

http://www.astrobin.com/search/?q=qsi683&search_type=0&solar_system_main_subject=&telescope_type=22&telescope_type=21&telescope_type=20&telescope_type=19&telescope_type=18&telescope_type=17&telescope_type=16&telescope_type=15&telescope_type=14&telescope_type=13&telescope_type=12&telescope_type=11&telescope_type=10&telescope_type=9&telescope_type=8&telescope_type=7&telescope_type=6&telescope_type=5&telescope_type=4&telescope_type=3&telescope_type=2&telescope_type=1&telescope_type=0&telescope_type=any&camera_type=0&aperture_min=&aperture_max=&pixel_size_min=&pixel_size_max=&start_date=&end_date=&integration_min=&integration_max=&moon_phase_min=&moon_phase_max=&license=0&license=1&license=2&license=3&license=4&license=5&license=6

Not everyone has the same processing skill, so the processed results vary rather widely. However, for the well processed ones, you can see the quality. The resolution is higher than you can get with a comparable APS-C sized CMOS sensor, exposures are usually much deeper, etc.


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## meywd (Oct 3, 2015)

jrista said:


> meywd said:
> 
> 
> > Nice and thanks for sharing, now make sure you update your website when you get them, need a reference to return to when I decide to dive in ;D, are there any high res photos taken with this camera - processed - to compare shots.
> ...



wow great results, but of course it needs the lens/telescope to go with it


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## dak723 (Oct 4, 2015)

kraats said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > kraats said:
> ...



Please let us know if you have actually tried the competitors (presumably Sony or Nikon with the Exmor). And tell us exactly how the sensor has made your pics so much better in image quality. I have tried (twice) to replace my Canon 6D with the Sony A7 and then the Sony A7II. I took the same pics with each camera to compare. The Sonys were returned. In my opinion - and to my eye - the Canon's pics were better or there was no discernible difference. Oh, by the way, I shot only landscapes to compare. So I am curious as to what you find is so much better. 

Or are you just basing your opinion on what you have read on the internet?


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## MagnumJoe (Oct 4, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> kraats said:
> 
> 
> > privatebydesign said:
> ...



For me this statement says it all. 

As for competitiveness, how competitive are Nikon and Sony in the lens market? They pale by comparison; how about the flash market? Canon wipe the floor with both with the 600-EX-RT and 430EX-III RT system.

Right on privatebydesign.


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## Don Haines (Oct 4, 2015)

kraats said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > kraats said:
> ...


Everyone has their opinion.....

Mine is that the autofocus system is the most important aspect of a modern DSLR, followed by the lenses.

Nobody cares what the colour depth or dynamic range is on an out of focus picture....


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## midluk (Oct 4, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> As for competitiveness, how competitive are Nikon and Sony in the lens market? They pale by comparison; how about the flash market? Canon wipe the floor with both with the 600-EX-RT and 430EX-III RT system.


You are talking about the flashes that everybody agrees are in urgent need of an improved metering system when Canon writes they are working on E-TTL III?


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## unfocused (Oct 4, 2015)

midluk said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > As for competitiveness, how competitive are Nikon and Sony in the lens market? They pale by comparison; how about the flash market? Canon wipe the floor with both with the 600-EX-RT and 430EX-III RT system.
> ...



Not everybody. I use E-TTL a lot and find it nothing short of brilliant.


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## Ulric Wolf (Oct 4, 2015)

scyrene said:


> Ulric Wolf said:
> 
> 
> > vscd said:
> ...



Well, I'm sorry, but it just happened that one smart individual started to talk about himself and not think about others. World is pretty big and it's very egoistic to talk things like "i don't need this feature and so that camera don't need that". Stupid.


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## privatebydesign (Oct 4, 2015)

kraats said:


> For me this statement says it all.
> 
> As for competitiveness, how competitive are Nikon and Sony in the lens market? They pale by comparison; how about the flash market? Canon wipe the floor with both with the 600-EX-RT and 430EX-III RT system.
> 
> Right on privatebydesign.


They are not but that is a total different market. For now Canon as a system is still a very good system but like i said before they have got to come up with a sensor that is close or matches the competition. When you are in a tech business you need to be on top constantly or you loose in the long run. The way it is now I have a strong feeling Canonis not competitive anymore in the sensor market.
[/quote]


You can turn that around just as easily. The Nikon and Sony lens selection and flash system are 'good enough' for the vast majority of users so they don't need to do anything in that area to remain at their sales positions.

You don't have the slightest idea of the tech Canon is capable of, not a clue. What we do know is the tech they bring to market at the price point they set, and they remain market leaders at that even though they choose to use a lower tech (and cost) sensor. Seems Canon knows exactly what it is doing!

But all talk of tech aside, I might not be the average buyer but those of us with a level of knowledge above a complete beginner don't buy a sensor, or camera, in isolation, we buy into a system, and in many areas of a camera system Canon utterly obliterates any offering by any other manufacturer, and in many areas they have no actual competition. 

Obviously the lens selection is a very personal thing, everybody makes a generalist foundation tool 24-70 f2.8, apart from Sony! But when you get a touch more esoteric, things like the TS-E24 MkII which is widely regarded as one of the best landscape and architectural lenses ever made, well Nikon have their PC-E24 but it doesn't offer independent shift and tilt and the IQ is woeful by comparison.

So if I want to shoot a generalists foundation 24-70 f2.8 with decent AF, the Sony tech is out. If I want to shoot landscapes, the Nikon 14-24 is bested very easily by the Canon 11-24 and the PC-E 24 has embarrassing performance compared to the TS-E 24 II. 

See where I am going? You choose one specific metric of one component of a system and say Canon has to change it or die, I point out many metrics where other manufacturers trail behind Canon or don't even make a comparative tool, you say _"that is different"_. So, show me a picture you have taken with just a sensor, and I will give you the time of day, or show me a picture you took with a Canon where you made an optimal exposure and the sensor let you down.


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## unfocused (Oct 4, 2015)

kraats said:


> MagnumJoe said:
> 
> 
> > For me this statement says it all.
> ...


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## privatebydesign (Oct 4, 2015)

unfocused said:


> As I said before



I know we are saying the exact same thing. The hope is that said in a different way kratts might get the point, he can't take a picture with just a sensor ;D


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## unfocused (Oct 4, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > As I said before
> ...



Agreed. I would only add that I refuse to concede that Canon is "behind" in sensor technology, when those that make that claim selectively cherry pick the facts and ignore all the areas where Canon is actually way ahead of their competitors in sensor technology.


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## jrista (Oct 5, 2015)

Don Haines said:


> Everyone has their opinion.....
> 
> Mine is that the autofocus system is the most important aspect of a modern DSLR, followed by the lenses.
> 
> *Nobody cares what the colour depth or dynamic range is on an out of focus picture....*



True. HOWEVER...very, very, very, very, VERY FEW cameras on the market are incapable of acquiring focus on a consistent basis. There are misses...but there are misses with Canon equipment as well. I miss far more than I would prefer to with my 5D III and BIF or moving wildlife shots. The problem was even more severe on the 7D. It's not a high percentage, but high enough that I miss many of the "perfect" shots because they are just enough out of focus that I cannot use them...at least, not for anything larger than about a 4x6 size in print or on screen.

I find arguments specifically like this, about AF, to be rather odd. It makes the insinuation that any brand other than Canon cannot acquire focus half the time, which is patently false. Brands have been leapfrogging each other for a few years now with AF capabilities and performance. For a while it was the Canon 1D IV which was nailing it, then the D3 and D4 came along and did slightly better, then the 1D X did slightly better again, then the 7D II got similar AF capabilities to the 1D X, then the Sony A6000 brought a professional grade AF system to an $800 pocket sized camera with 11fps, and the A7r II is capable of rather high performance AF with just about any lens that can be properly adapted to it. The 5D IV will undoubtedly get Canon's iTR technology and join the ranks of the 1D X and 7D II in the Canon world. The next Nikon body will undoubtedly get further improved AF technology...

We don't have an AF problem. It doesn't matter which brand you pick, the same general AF capabilities exist in all of them. They all work quite well, and every single brand, in every single model, is going to have it's misses. As a long time Canon user, I can attest to the fact that Canon is hardly "missfocus free" here. I can attest to that fact and also claim I've verified the issue with one of Canon's most expensive lenses as well, as I own the EF 600mm f/4 L II. 

So...when everything else works out. When metering gets the exposure right. When AF locks the subject properly. The thing that actually determines your IQ is the sensor. Canon sensors are good. They aren't top of the line in the greater market, but they are good. For those who need more, don't think that Canon has something particularly special in the AF department. They have some GREAT technology there for sure, but it isn't particularly more advanced or cutting edge than their top two competitors. Their competitors also have some GREAT technology there. You can focus fine with any one of these brands...but you can get better IQ if you need it, under certain circumstances for certain kinds of photography, with the other two when you cannot with Canon. 

The one area where Canon excels in particular is their customer service. It definitely seems better with Canon than Nikon. I haven't had to deal with Sony customer service, so I cannot comment on it, however in every other aspect, Sony's photography division seems to be very customer focused. I hope I don't have to figure out what their customer service is like, and that the products will just keep on working.

When it comes to lenses, Sony MTFs are comparable to Canon's in most cases. Especially the white lenses. I was just checking out Sony's 70-200 f/4, and it's very comparable to Canon's. It's as good as Canon's 70-200 f/2.8 L II even. The FE lens lineup is also expanding rapidly, with eight new lenses on the way. I still prefer Canon class, I like their use of Fluorite in the superteles, and I am intrigued by their DO lenses...but Sony lenses, at least the higher grade ones, are certainly no slouches either.


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## romanr74 (Oct 5, 2015)

fragilesi said:


> Ulric Wolf said:
> 
> 
> > You are talking bulls*it - if You need just a photo - You have plenty of options already - buy a 6D, 7D2, for god sake 5D3. There is Noikon D610, D750, D810, there is coming 6DII. What else do You need? 5D was always universal camera, 5D2 was camera that made DSLR video industry. So stop talking bulls*it, 5D4 must have to be universal for anything.
> ...



I don't think I really care about 4k video in my 5DIV


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## romanr74 (Oct 5, 2015)

Ulric Wolf said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > Ulric Wolf said:
> ...



Well, I'm sorry too, but in this case there were at least two smart individuals. Or was it not you who knew so well what other people will do, thus implying your opinion is kinda universal? Hellooo!!??


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## jeffa4444 (Oct 5, 2015)

Canon pricing on the 5Ds & 5Ds R I think shines a light onto what to expect from the 5D MKIV. My guess would be it will be identical in price to the 5Ds at launch with essentially the same AF, metering, anti-flicker, shutter etc. but higher frame rate, different sensor (between 28-36MP) and 4K video. 
That means when the 6D MKII arrives it will have and new sensor, maybe 24MP, expanded AF points, the newer metering but retain GPS & Wi-Fi and likely be priced at the current 5D MKIII price. That then begs the question will an entry level full-frame camera slot in below and will that be a full frame version of the 80D?


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## K (Oct 5, 2015)

jeffa4444 said:


> Canon pricing on the 5Ds & 5Ds R I think shines a light onto what to expect from the 5D MKIV. My guess would be it will be identical in price to the 5Ds at launch with essentially the same AF, metering, anti-flicker, shutter etc. but higher frame rate, different sensor (between 28-36MP) and 4K video.



I think you're right on these specs. I doubt we'll see any Earth shattering improvements in AF. The AF of the 5D3 is already very good and one can only think of incremental improvements at this point.

For the 5D4 to have some kind of leap in AF would require the 1DX2 to come out first and have some massive leap in AF.

4K should be a given. I could care less for it, but it is a market driven thing. No 4K would be a humiliation for Canon.

Shutter, FPS and all that along with the anti-flicker, menus, new view finder is probably the same or close to the 5DS.

It will all come down to sensor. Sensor, sensor, sensor. With the rest being small incremental improvements - there will be big expectations on the sensor. With the two big areas of importance being ISO and DR, in that order. Megapixels ain't where it's at. Especially since the 5DS is there for the pixel-peepers.

If Canon doesn't deliver big on ISO and DR, 5D4 is going to be pointless upgrade for anyone with a 5D3. Those still shooting a 5D2 or a 6D would probably be better candidates for upgrade.




> That means when the 6D MKII arrives it will have and new sensor, maybe 24MP, expanded AF points, the newer metering but retain GPS & Wi-Fi and likely be priced at the current 5D MKIII price. That then begs the question will an entry level full-frame camera slot in below and will that be a full frame version of the 80D?



I doubt it. It appears thus far that Canon has no interest at all in expanding into the FF-entry arena past the 6D. I think that is a shame, since Nikon does well there. I've beaten this horse many times, but it's the truth. From the perspective of a low-budget photographer who wants FF quality and needs a camera with other features - Nikon is much more appealing. Example, the D750. That camera is really jam packed with features and quality. It punches way above its weight for sure.

Canon seems perfectly happy trying to keep feeding the market place high end APS-C like the 7D2. The 70D has its place and I like that camera. It is a more appropriately featured and priced crop. It beats out the Nikon crops in every single way except sensor and slots (D7200), But the 7D2? Seriously, if the 7D2 did NOT have 10fps to make it a poor-man's flagship for action -- would it be worth it? No way. That sole feature is the identity of that camera. Because for a little bit more money, again you can go FF with comparable AF in the D750.


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## jeffa4444 (Oct 5, 2015)

Not so sure I think we may see an entry level 8D the full frame version of the 80D.


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## unfocused (Oct 5, 2015)

Truncating this to save space:



K said:


> jeffa4444 said:
> 
> 
> > ...essentially the same AF, metering, anti-flicker, shutter etc. but higher frame rate, different sensor (between 28-36MP) and 4K video.
> ...



While I generally agree with many of your points, there are a few I would dispute or at least expand on.

I would not be surprised to see the 5DIV held to about 24-26 MP and let the 6D II go up to 28-30 MP. This is a logical move for Canon. With the 5Ds now available, there is no pressure for the 5DIV to have much if any more resolution than it now carries. I could very well see Canon holding down the MP count on the 5DIV to improve high ISO performance and then let the 6DII leapfrog it on resolution. This would keep the 6D II as a compromise camera, which is what it was designed to be.

I doubt if Canon worries all that much about having a better or equal autofocus system in the 5DIV as in the 1Dx. Despite what some on internet forums claim, Canon doesn't seem all that concerned about the latest model competing with an older higher priced model. (Note how they essentially made the 70D a better camera than the 7DI, long before the 7D II came out.) Whenever the 1Dx II comes out, it will still be superior.

Canon has invested heavily in refining and perfecting autofocus. I expect they will continue to offer new improvements until they reach the point of diminishing returns. 

I don't necessarily agree that the 5DIV is "all about the sensor." At best any improvement in ISO performance and dynamic range will be incremental. But then, the supposed miracle Sony sensors aren't really much better either. Still, having seen the impressive improvement made with the 7DII sensor and reading the enthusiastic reviews of those using the 5Ds, I expect there will be some impressive sensor improvements.

I strongly disagree with your assessment of the 7DII. While the 10 frames/second is a major selling point, it is hardly the sole reason for the camera. I believe (and apparently Canon does as well) that there is a market for a APS-C mini 1Dx. Now, having said that, if the 5DIV comes out with 9 frames/second and improved autofocus, my 7DII is likely to see a lot less use.


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## K (Oct 5, 2015)

unfocused said:


> I don't necessarily agree that the 5DIV is "all about the sensor." At best any improvement in ISO performance and dynamic range will be incremental. But then, the supposed miracle Sony sensors aren't really much better either. Still, having seen the impressive improvement made with the 7DII sensor and reading the enthusiastic reviews of those using the 5Ds, I expect there will be some impressive sensor improvements.



Well, let me put it this way...

Judging by Canon's past...

If other than the sensor itself, the 5D4 is essentially a 5DS - what then will be the main attraction?

There will be more expectations of the sensor and how it performs is my speculation. That and 4K.

Because if Canon is basically offering up a 5DS with more FPS and a new sensor - people are not going to be impressed unless the ISO and DR is improved by a stop. A stop would be fair. Anything less and there will be criticisms.



> I strongly disagree with your assessment of the 7DII. While the 10 frames/second is a major selling point, it is hardly the sole reason for the camera. I believe (and apparently Canon does as well) that there is a market for a APS-C mini 1Dx. Now, having said that, if the 5DIV comes out with 9 frames/second and improved autofocus, my 7DII is likely to see a lot less use.



Well...if you take away the 10fps, what are we left with?

*It is a semi-pro build quality, dual slot 70D with better AF and no articulating touch screen.* Is the semi-pro build quality of any use in that grade of camera? Not in my opinion without the FPS. Dual slots is great, but for a crop camera, 2 SD is better. Lose the CF and save the space. The AF is nice though, I'll give it that.

70D already has DPAF. Same megapixels. Ok, so the 7D2 has ever so slightly better IQ due to ISO improvement. You have to pixel peep quite a bit to see the difference. It is almost the same minuscule difference between the 5D3 and 6D. Not worth talking about. 70D also has touch screen that articulates. Huge right there, making the DPAF a practical feature and it a real video camera. To me the DPAF is wasted on the 7D2. 

7D2, better ergos...ok. Viewfinder, anti-flicker...nice features, but not deal winners.

Everyone will value the remaining features differently. But I can't help but think that without the 10fps, what is this camera? I feel the main attraction here is having a machine-gun on the cheap. Pressing the shutter on that thing is like pressing the accelerator on a fine sports car. But like a sports car, they are really only good at a couple of things. I've used the 7D2. Blazing FPS. Beyond that...it's a dressed up crop camera.


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## Don Haines (Oct 5, 2015)

jrista said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > Everyone has their opinion.....
> ...


All true!

Quite frankly, I think that the market is moving towards convergence and just like in the good old days of manual film cameras, there really won't be much of a difference between brands...... and it is a safe bet that others will be using DO technology before too much longer. The days of the new camera being twice as good as the two year old model it replaces are over, Now we get excited over a half stop. We are getting close to the point where we can count each photon that hits the sensor and that leaves very little room for improvement. Many of the new lenses have MTF curves that look more like a cluster of straight lines at the top of the chart, so there is not much room for improvement there either.

AF is the laggard. Yes, they are all good, but they can be better. Tracking of moving objects is phenomenal now, and we are on the verge of tracking a specific individual or a BIF as it flies among the trees. Many P/S cameras already do facial recognition.... I really like the combo of touchscreen and AF on the mirrorless cameras and was quite surprised when it was not on the 7D2....

These are great times to be pushing the shutter!


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## jrista (Oct 5, 2015)

Don Haines said:


> Quite frankly, I think that the market is moving towards convergence and just like in the good old days of manual film cameras, there really won't be much of a difference between brands...... and it is a safe bet that others will be using DO technology before too much longer. The days of the new camera being twice as good as the two year old model it replaces are over, Now we get excited over a half stop. We are getting close to the point where we can count each photon that hits the sensor and that leaves very little room for improvement. Many of the new lenses have MTF curves that look more like a cluster of straight lines at the top of the chart, so there is not much room for improvement there either.



Aye, we have already converged quite a bit. It's tough to go wrong with any of the top three brands these days, and there are some great benefits to some of the close runner ups as well. 

Lenses have indeed gotten excellent, across the board, from most manufacturers. Even the third party makers are creating some pretty killer lenses, often besting brand name ones in a few cases. That is pretty incredible, but I guess it also had to happen as the megapixel wars have ceased to even slow down, let alone stop.



Don Haines said:


> AF is the laggard. Yes, they are all good, but they can be better. Tracking of moving objects is phenomenal now, and we are on the verge of tracking a specific individual or a BIF as it flies among the trees. Many P/S cameras already do facial recognition.... I really like the combo of touchscreen and AF on the mirrorless cameras and was quite surprised when it was not on the 7D2....



Yeah. I have to say, I was originally quite happy with the 61pt AF system from Canon, but after a year and more using it, it still has the inter-frame jitter problem that the 7D had, just slightly milder (which may just be due to the fact that the frame rate is slower). I still lose a good deal of those perfect moments because the darn AF system won't remain locked. This is an area where I think the A6000 actually does better, but I need more time with it to know for sure. 

I have played with a wildlife and bird photographer's 7D II. The AF there for tracking BIF definitely seems better. Maybe that is just the iTR, maybe it is also the higher resolution metering sensor and increased point count. Not sure, but it seemed better. If the 5D IV does NOT get the iTR technology, I'll be writing a very carefully worded letter to Canon about it, because that would just be a travesty.

I am looking forward to getting a chance to try the A7r II, however the weather has been so bad this year, and my sleep issues have gotten really bad again, so I've hardly been out, and haven't bothered trying to rent one yet. I really should try soon, as all the mountain passes will be closing within weeks here. :\

Anyway. I'm quite impressed with the AF capabilities of the most recent generation of cameras. Nikon's have had some great capabilities for some time, but their AF points seem to be rather tightly clustered. The Sony and Canon cameras spread them out a bit more, and both (at least based on my experience with the 7D II and A6000) seem to nail focus more often than my 5D III. 



Don Haines said:


> These are great times to be pushing the shutter!



Indeed! I love the freedom to choose a variety of brands, and the freedom to adapt lenses with new mirrorless cameras. Certainly opens up the options.


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## privatebydesign (Oct 5, 2015)

jrista said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > These are great times to be pushing the shutter!
> ...



I have yet to see anything compelling that actually illustrates this capability. My experiences, which are admittedly small, and many of the videos I have seen, show that this just isn't a realistic option yet if AF is any kind of priority.

Sure you can fit Canon lenses on Sony sensors, but the AF gets much worse from what I have seen and experienced, they are certainly well short of a pro feature from a reliability and ease of use stand point. 

For sure where AF is not a priority the choices are broader than ever, and a welcome change, but I think you are gilding the lily to far to great an extent at this point.


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## ksgal (Oct 5, 2015)

K said:


> Well...if you take away the 10fps, what are we left with?
> 
> *It is a semi-pro build quality, dual slot 70D with better AF and no articulating touch screen.* Is the semi-pro build quality of any use in that grade of camera? Not in my opinion without the FPS. Dual slots is great, but for a crop camera, 2 SD is better. Lose the CF and save the space. The AF is nice though, I'll give it that.
> 
> ...



Weather sealing. AF points spread better throughout the frame. I'd rather have 2 CF cards, myself. Anti flicker is a deal winner if you shoot under outdoor or indoor terrible lighting situations, particularly for sports. Those three are important to a ton of photographers. 

And lets really put a big plus in the built like a tank column.. because this thing is Built. 

Horses for courses. Don't need the features, don't buy the camera, but please, for those of us who want or need those features, we are not dumb for buying the camera. I didn't buy the camera for the frame rate, but it was a factor to tip the scales in it's favor. 

I think the camera does many things well, depending on who is operating the controls, but that is true for any camera. I know they forgot to add the portrait and mountain icons to the camera, doesn't matter a bit to me, I still photograph both with it, and I'm pretty sure you couldn't tell it what camera it was.


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## Don Haines (Oct 5, 2015)

K said:


> 7D2, better ergos...ok. Viewfinder, anti-flicker...nice features, but not deal winners.


Anti-flicker is FANTASTIC!!!!!

I shoot musicians in old venues, Anti-flicker caused me to go from 1 in 3 shots exposed properly to every shot exposed properly. It came out on the 7D2 and is on the 5Ds and the 5Dr. It is a safe bet that this feature will be in the 5D4, the 1DX2, etc

This is a function that (if you need it) is a game changer. For those who don't, just turn it off....


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## jrista (Oct 7, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



It is not just about fitting Canon lenses to Sony sensors. It is about fitting almost ANY lens to Sony sensors. The A7r II significantly upped the AF performance game. I don't know if it is action ready yet...I am hoping to get a chance to rent an A7r II soon and pair it with my 600mm lens, and see how it works for birds and wildlife. It isn't an ubiquitous capability yet, but I don't think it will be long before that changes. The A6100 should get much improved AF, and paired with a high frame rate, I think that may replace my 5D III (or 5D IV, which I do plan to get) on many occasions. I also figure I'll get a Canon mounted Sigma 150-600mm to pair with both cameras as well, for cases when hauling out the big 600mm is not an option and I still want the reach.

You think I'm "gliding the lily too far", I think you are just as narrow minded as ever.  To each his own, I guess.


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## RGF (Oct 7, 2015)

jrista said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > jrista said:
> ...



This may be the wrong forum to raise this question, but I just purchased a A7R II and metabones adapter

I would like to use "Live view" (I know, a Canon term) and magnify the image to determine if I have critical focus.

Some of my lens do not AF w the Metabones adapter but that is okay since I will be working very slowly.

How do I do this?


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 7, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> For sure where AF is not a priority the choices are broader than ever, and a welcome change



Very much so. I LOVE using MF on the A7R2. Love. It suffers in low-light, but it's workable.


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 7, 2015)

RGF said:


> This may be the wrong forum to raise this question, but I just purchased a A7R II and metabones adapter
> 
> I would like to use "Live view" (I know, a Canon term) and magnify the image to determine if I have critical focus.
> 
> ...



The function is called focus magnifier. Unfortunately, it is disabled if AF is enabled. So, when you adapt an AF lens which the camera won't drive, you have to disable autofocus (by default with the toggle up, hit the small button). Then you can press the center button (I believe that's the default) to zoom.

I have it up on C1 because I use the center button for AF-on.



jrista said:


> It is not just about fitting Canon lenses to Sony sensors.



Yep. I picked up a dumb f to e adapter for a hundreds bucks so I can use my friend's FF f-mount sigma art lenses. It's nice.


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## vscd (Oct 10, 2015)

[quote author=ulric wolf]
Well, I'm sorry, but it just happened that one smart individual started to talk about himself and not think about others. World is pretty big and it's very egoistic to talk things like "i don't need this feature and so that camera don't need that". Stupid. 
[/quote]

Mr. Wolf, I think about others and my comment was only a reaction to another one. And if *my* very own opinion is that I don't need 4k on my (still-)cam than this is something you have to obey to. You're free to have your own opinion on this but don't call me stupid. I think in real world you wouldn't dare to. Now grow up.


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## martti (Oct 24, 2015)

It will be interesting to see how they improve on the 5DIII so that people can justify the price of the upgrade.
Of course, there are people to whom money is no issue. And those who want to have the Sony sensor, nothing else will do. People have their motives and their hang-ups.

Selling the 5DIII might bring some 1500-1800 dollars and then you'd have to pay about the same amount from your pocket to get the new 5D IV. Since I already have as much photographic stuff that I can carry and my 5D III serves me just fine, I'd probably use my money for a trip to one of the places that they show pictures of in National Geographic and Geo. Patagonia, for instance. 

This is from here:


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