# Canon EOS Rebel SL2 Coming in September [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (May 22, 2017)

```
<p>We <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-eos-rebel-sl2-confirmed-in-2017-cr3/">reported back in February</a> that we’ll be seeing an EOS Rebel SL2 some time in 2017. We’re now being told to expect the camera to come in September of this year.</p>
<p>The new king of small DSLRs will apparently be slightly smaller and a bit lighter than the EOS Rebel SL1, which at the time of its launch was the smallest DSLR in the world.</p>
<p>We’re also told to expect a specifications list that is relatively similar to the Canon EOS 77D.</p>
<p>The next DSLR to be announced by Canon will be the EOS 6D Mark II some time in July.</p>
<p><em>More to come…</em></p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## Woody (May 22, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> The new king of small DSLRs will apparently be slightly smaller and a bit lighter than the EOS Rebel SL1, which at the time of its launch was the smallest DSLR in the world.
> 
> We’re also told to expect a specifications list that is relatively similar to the Canon EOS 77D.



Very excited about this!!!


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## Hector1970 (May 22, 2017)

I liked the SL1. 
I thought they were onto something there size wise but they seemed to move to mirror less to get the smallest APS-C camera. Could they get a full frame sensor into a body that size?


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## rrcphoto (May 22, 2017)

Hector1970 said:


> I liked the SL1.
> I thought they were onto something there size wise but they seemed to move to mirror less to get the smallest APS-C camera. Could they get a full frame sensor into a body that size?



yes, but not a full frame penta mirror or penta prism. it would have to be mirrorless.


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## Sharlin (May 22, 2017)

Canon's lineup in that section of the product ladder starts getting awfully crowded. With major features almost identical, we have six bodies whose differences are mostly in ergonomics:


80D - biggest, most rugged build, best OVF
77D - smaller, lighter build, smaller viewfinder, some "prosumer" ergonomics 
800D/T7i - identical to the 77D except with more beginner-oriented design 
110D(?)/SL2 - maximally compact while still being SLR
M5 - compact, pretty good ergonomics (many dials!), EVF
M6 - maximally compact, same ergonomics as M5 sans EVF


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## rrcphoto (May 22, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> Canon's lineup in that section of the product ladder starts getting awfully crowded. With major features almost identical, we have six bodies whose differences are mostly in ergonomics



and size / weight.


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## Sharlin (May 22, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > Canon's lineup in that section of the product ladder starts getting awfully crowded. With major features almost identical, we have six bodies whose differences are mostly in ergonomics
> ...



Definitely! I was thinking of ergonomics as including size/weight considerations, not just things like the number of dials or the size of the viewfinder image.


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## LDS (May 22, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> Canon's lineup in that section of the product ladder starts getting awfully crowded. With major features almost identical, we have six bodies whose differences are mostly in ergonomics:



And price 

What's wrong? Some people choose a camera over another exactly for those reason. I'm going to buy an SL2 or M5, depending on what the SL2 actually offers - because my main need is a small, light ILC camera with an OVF/EVF, and they're within my acceptable price range. I'm not interested in the other models. But I guess they're appealing to many others.


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## rrcphoto (May 22, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > Sharlin said:
> ...



very true. I always figure that size and weight define the ergonomics, VF, and build quality of the camera at least in canon land - they are pretty logical about it really.


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## RandomRazr (May 22, 2017)

Is the 6D II, basically have dumb down features of the 5D IV?

Im not sure whether to wait or go for 5d IV.

my primary use is video with some photography on the side. going full frame as i want a nice built camera.

video wise is there much difference between 80d vs 5d IV asside from 4k?


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## Sharlin (May 22, 2017)

LDS said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > Canon's lineup in that section of the product ladder starts getting awfully crowded. With major features almost identical, we have six bodies whose differences are mostly in ergonomics:
> ...



Price, yes, but the six bodies in question are actually not that differently priced. The difference between the 80D and the 800D is notable, of course, and not many people would wonder which one to buy, but between them there's the four other models.

Too many similar models is not always a good thing. It may present potential customers with too much choise, leading to analysis paralysis, and may signal that the company has no good idea of what kind of a product it wants to sell and is hedging its bets by trying a lot of things and seeing what sticks. See the difference between the iPhone and the Android ecosystem, for instance.


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## NorbR (May 22, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> Too many similar models is not always a good thing. It may present potential customers with too much choise, leading to analysis paralysis, and may signal that the company has no good idea of what kind of a product it wants to sell and is hedging its bets by trying a lot of things and seeing what sticks. See the difference between the iPhone and the Android ecosystem, for instance.



True. But on the other hand it also means that a lot of customers will end up hesitating between a Canon and a Canon. (And possibly a Canon.) I'm thinking Canon wouldn't mind that.


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## LonelyBoy (May 22, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> Canon's lineup in that section of the product ladder starts getting awfully crowded. With major features almost identical, we have six bodies whose differences are mostly in ergonomics:
> 
> 
> 80D - biggest, most rugged build, best OVF
> ...



Of those it's really the 77D/T7i that seem redundant. The SL2 is (or will be; SL1 is) a great little travel/ in-the-car/ whatever body, while the 80D brings most of the prosumer features. The other two seem to be almost conjoined twins, and I'd have rather streamlined the SKUs there.

The M5 and M6 are wholly different to the SLRs, even if they share a sensor (or very similar sensor).


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## Chaitanya (May 22, 2017)

Maybe Canon will finally implement their hybrid EVF/OVF patent with this camera. It wont be much of risk for them with camera of this segment to test water.


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## rrcphoto (May 22, 2017)

Chaitanya said:


> Maybe Canon will finally implement their hybrid EVF/OVF patent with this camera. It wont be much of risk for them with camera of this segment to test water.



nope, for starters that uses a pentaprism and a secondary prism as well. no way that's going into an SL2 sized camera.


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## rrcphoto (May 22, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> LDS said:
> 
> 
> > Sharlin said:
> ...



canon's been doing this for a ton of years I'm sure they have an idea what they are doing.

you're also forgetting that some cameras are more suited for some markets over others as well.

Look at it from the global perspective and it changes.


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## rrcphoto (May 22, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> Canon's lineup in that section of the product ladder starts getting awfully crowded. With major features almost identical, we have six bodies whose differences are mostly in ergonomics:
> 
> 
> 80D - biggest, most rugged build, best OVF
> ...



you actually forgot one which is the T6

it really goes:

Mirrorless:
M10
M6
M5

SLR APS-C

SL2
1300D / T6
800D / T7i
77D
80D
7D Mark II

Full frame consumer / prosumer:

6D Mark II
5D Mark IV
5Ds / 5DsR

1DX Mark II

Alot of cameras, but canon sells globally. Sl2 / T6 sell huge to different markets as an example. Canon discounts the T6 down to around 250 bucks at times. SL2 sells better into Asia than it does with NA.

M10 the same, doesn't sell to NA, but sells and ships a batshi ton into Asia.

Can't look at these from a naval gazing perspective, because canon has to sell to all markets globally and each one has it's own quirks.

It's always amusing to me why people bemoan that canon can't do x, y, z. the problem is that they are being to all customers, globally - versus certainly the mirrorless companies that are just making products for a smaller segment of the market.

it's why canon's at nearly 50% of the ILC business, and the others are distant 2nd and 3rd choices.


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## kiwiengr (May 22, 2017)

Back in February the rumour was a CR3 level, now only CR2? Good to see less certainty as time goes by.... ;D


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## BillB (May 22, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> Canon's lineup in that section of the product ladder starts getting awfully crowded. With major features almost identical, we have six bodies whose differences are mostly in ergonomics:
> 
> 
> 80D - biggest, most rugged build, best OVF
> ...



And they all seem to have the same sensor, AF and chip. Doesn't really fit with notion that Canon cripples the cheapies to force buyers upmarket. Really hoping that Canon follows the same strategy with the 6DII, although the 5DIV AF is out of the question. But the 30mp sensor?? Seems pretty certain it will have the DIGIC 7 chip.

APS-C is ls the place that most people buy into the ES lens system, so that's where it all starts out for most of us. I don't how many dollars my EF lenses represents for me, and I don't want to add it up to find out, but it has been over a lot of years, so it likely would look better on a per year basis.


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## KeithBreazeal (May 22, 2017)

I bought a SL1 to use for a pole cam and was surprised with it's IQ. The only negative I could find with the design was the mirror noise level. At least you know if the camera fired.
My wife borrowed mine for a trip and wound up buying her own. Light weight is the selling feature.


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## neuroanatomist (May 22, 2017)

BillB said:


> I don't how many dollars my EF lenses represents for me, and I don't want to add it up to find out, but it has been over a lot of years, so it likely would look better on a per year basis.



I do know, becuase it shows up anually on my insurance bill. Even on a per-year basis, it's not a small number...


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## BillB (May 22, 2017)

kiwiengr said:


> Back in February the rumour was a CR3 level, now only CR2? Good to see less certainty as time goes by.... ;D



Maybe it is the September date that is the CR2?


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## PHOTOPROROCKIES (May 22, 2017)

RandomRazr said:


> Is the 6D II, basically have dumb down features of the 5D IV?
> 
> Im not sure whether to wait or go for 5d IV.
> 
> ...



At this point its still a guessing game. I'm sure the 6D mk II camera will be great, unless Canon does what they are notorious for but we'll see. If video is all your doing it might be a better option to check out the Sony A7sii, big down side with that one is the battery life. The Fuji x-t2 is pretty good with video but for serious video features you need the battey grip. The Panasonic GH5 is also an amazing camera for video. Lot of other options out there that are better suited for video than the Canon 5D mk IV.


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## Maximilian (May 22, 2017)

Woody said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > The new king of small DSLRs will apparently be slightly smaller and a bit lighter than the EOS Rebel SL1, which at the time of its launch was the smallest DSLR in the world.
> ...


Same here! 

Better specification is very welcome, esp. better AF and sensor. 
Smaller and lighter is nice to have but not needed.

I hope they can keep/improve ergonomics though.

If price is fair, this will replace my 100D/SL1.

Edit: right now I still believe in specs closer to - rather below the 800D - than closer to the 77D. 
But maybe this is the strategy to get a higher price from the market. Street prices in Germany:
750D is somewhere below 600 €.
800D is below 800 €
77D is a little bit above 800 €
110D/SL2 with a (street) price between 600 and 700 € at decent specs would be interesting.
Maybe below 600€ after a few months ???


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## slclick (May 22, 2017)

RandomRazr said:


> Is the 6D II, basically have dumb down features of the 5D IV?
> 
> Im not sure whether to wait or go for 5d IV.
> 
> ...



I'm hoping the SL2 will answer these questions and more.


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## Jan (May 22, 2017)

Some specs would be nice... ;-)


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## Sharlin (May 22, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> canon's been doing this for a ton of years I'm sure they have an idea what they are doing.
> 
> you're also forgetting that some cameras are more suited for some markets over others as well.
> 
> Look at it from the global perspective and it changes.



Yeah, I'm not usually one to doubt Canon knows what they're doing. But this recent-ish proliferation of SKUs with fairly minor differences does not seem entirely Canon-like. 



> you actually forgot one which is the T6



No, I left it out because it's clearly separate from the six I mentioned. Its basic hardware (sensor, AF, metering) is almost ten years old now, in stark contrast to the sextet which shares a lot of Canon's bleeding-edge tech, in particular the excellent 24Mpix sensor and the latest-gen DPAF (assuming the SL2 has the rumored specs). Similarly the 7D2 stands out from the rest of the APS-C offering as a special-purpose tool.


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## RandomRazr (May 23, 2017)

PHOTOPROROCKIES said:


> RandomRazr said:
> 
> 
> > Is the 6D II, basically have dumb down features of the 5D IV?
> ...



thanks for the reply man! 

the only reason why im sticking with canon is i blew 2 grand on the 24-70mm 2.8 II L lens from them. its a sexy lens and i figured my as well continue ot make use with it. i sold my 70D so im ready for an upgrade.

in general , would one expect the 6D II to have lesser features then the 5D Iv tho? im really attracted by the possible tilt screen on the 6d II but again, as u say its all rumours

ugh i have a wedding coming up soon in a few weeks . im not the photographer or anything but would like to get some nice pictures. but again my primary use is video tho with the camera.


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## pwp (May 23, 2017)

As a ridiculously small and light travel camera, my old SL1 was just fantastic on a couple of trips into Vietnam, Laos & Thailand. Loved it. In the end it was the limitation of the nine focus points that sent it out the door. If the SL2 has a meaningful spread of focus points there's a good chance I'll come back for another try. 

On most jobs I'll work with two bodies, but occasionally a third body is useful. A chance to lose some bulk from the current 5DIV, 1DX & 7DII is tempting. Let's wait for the final specs...

-pw


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## Jopa (May 23, 2017)

I really hope it will have AFMA or it should be dead accurate with al my lenses.


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## slclick (May 23, 2017)

Had the SL1, have the Pen-F. For light weight and portability with current tech, I couldn't be happier but with that said I'll lug my arca armored 5D3 with a giant L lens if I'm truly seeking the best quality I can get. Reality, it's what's for dinner.


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## c.d.embrey (May 23, 2017)

How about a EF-S 17mm f/4 prime lens (= 27mm FOV)? With the good high ISO performance of the new APS-C sensor, f/4 or even f/5.6 is not a problem.

The EF-S 24mm f/2.8 (= 38mm FOV) Is a lot longer than I want/need. The EF-S 10-18mm IS STM, sorta negates the idea of a compact camera.

The EF-S 10-22mm f/3.5-4.5 that I own, at 13.5 oz./383, is not much lighter than a SL1 (14.2 oz./403g with battery and card.) If the SL2 is actually smaller/lighter than a SL1, the EF-S 10-22 f/3.5-4.5 could out-weight the camera


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## Woody (May 23, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> It's always amusing to me why people bemoan that canon can't do x, y, z. the problem is that they are being to all customers, globally - versus certainly the mirrorless companies that are just making products for a smaller segment of the market.
> 
> it's why canon's at nearly 50% of the ILC business, and the others are distant 2nd and 3rd choices.



Well said.


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## [email protected] (May 23, 2017)

One of the great things about the SL1 is that it has been very cheap. It was discounted pretty quickly, and you can now find deals for as low as $250 refurbished occasionally. I've used them for intervalometer cameras that I can leave in the woods. They're tough and the battery - albeit small - lasts longer than my 7 and 5 series cameras. I'm drooling at the prospect of picking up mark 1s for even less just to salt away for future projects. 

I should also mention that the three I've had have been severely abused and just shrug off all attempts at damage. One was hit by a thrown log from 8 feet away. The lens (Tokina 11-16) was unmounted forcibly and had to be reconstructed with a screw driver, gaffer tape and some judicious use of glue. It's still tack sharp. And, yes, there were extra screws left over at the end.


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## Maximilian (May 23, 2017)

Jopa said:


> I really hope it will have AFMA or it should be dead accurate with al my lenses.


Although I'd like to see this feature in all DSLRs I don't believe it will come to any EOS other than xxD or xD. 
And I can't believe and wouldn't want the 110D/SL2 to move that far upmarket. 
Otherwise it would be difficult for me to justify a purchase


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## LDS (May 23, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> Price, yes, but the six bodies in question are actually not that differently priced.



You don't see the same huge difference in prices among the upper lever models, but they're still there, and in this market segment those differences still matter. You also need to see them in a matrix - price vs. features vs. UI/ergonomics, not just in a linear fashion.



Sharlin said:


> Too many similar models is not always a good thing. It may present potential customers with too much choise, leading to analysis paralysis,



Actually, they may instead offer what different market segments look for. Some may want an ILC camera that works more like the P&S they may have been used too (or, today, phones). Other may want a camera with more direct controls (dials) because they got more seriously into photography (or just feel it). Again, you won't see this fragmentation in the upper level cameras where it doesn't make sense.

You see it in many different sectors - the higher you go you'll find less different choices or models - because the buyers are less, products offer more, and there's a more general consensus about them. While you observer a far fiercer competition, a larger consumer base, and far more different needs to address within a given price range.

And many customers in this market segments suffer far less from "analysis paralysis" than the GAS addicted people in forums like this (me included - still paralyzed between the M5 and the upcoming SL2 )  Many of them will follow relatives/friends/teachers/sellers advice, looking also at price and availability.


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## Sporgon (May 23, 2017)

I've sold my M3 kit for a variety of reasons, but principally because having briefly had an A7 too I completely fail to see how the implementation of current mirror-less technology can be regarded as superior to current dslrs. For myself the few potential benefits that an EVF can offer do not make up for the sluggish, power draining disadvantages over even a mediocre OVF. I can understand the tangible slimness of the camera bodies having an appeal, but that's about it. 

So this SL2 could be very tempting. I really wish that Canon would forsake a few grams of lightness and give it a decent pentaprism finder, and not build and feature it towards a "beginner's camera", but I guess if it is indeed lighter than the old one this won't happen.


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## m8547 (May 23, 2017)

I'd probably buy one. I love my SL1 for a lightweight hiking camera. Paired with the 24mm f/2.8 pancake lens it's lightweight enough to hike all day with, and the image quality is incredible. I also use it as a second body to my 6D. I typically have my 24-70 f/4 IS on the 6D and my 100-400 II on the SL1. The 100-400 II and SL1 is a silly combination, but it works great! If I'm carrying a heavy lens, I might as well use the lightest possible camera with it.


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## Chaitanya (May 23, 2017)

BillB said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > Canon's lineup in that section of the product ladder starts getting awfully crowded. With major features almost identical, we have six bodies whose differences are mostly in ergonomics:
> ...


Digital imaging sensor is the single most expensive component of any camera so sharing same sensor across multiple models in any generation is smart way of saving money on production. Sharing sensor has nothing to do with crippling which happens with functionality of camera(memory card slots, video features, customisation options, etc...) which according to Canon hampers sales or more "expensive" cameras. As the sensor gets bigger, so does the production cost and ratio of faulty sensors to usable sensors coming out of fab. Hence the reason why larger FF cameras dont seem to share sensors across multiple models.


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## LonelyBoy (May 23, 2017)

Chaitanya said:


> Digital imaging sensor is the single most expensive component of any camera so sharing same sensor across multiple models in any generation is smart way of saving money on production. Sharing sensor has nothing to do with crippling which happens with functionality of camera(memory card slots, video features, customisation options, etc...) which according to Canon hampers sales or more "expensive" cameras. As the sensor gets bigger, so does the production cost and ratio of faulty sensors to usable sensors coming out of fab. Hence the reason why larger FF cameras dont seem to share sensors across multiple models.



I'm just sick of hearing the people whine about "crippling" on every damn camera.


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## privatebydesign (May 23, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> Chaitanya said:
> 
> 
> > Digital imaging sensor is the single most expensive component of any camera so sharing same sensor across multiple models in any generation is smart way of saving money on production. Sharing sensor has nothing to do with crippling which happens with functionality of camera(memory card slots, video features, customisation options, etc...) which according to Canon hampers sales or more "expensive" cameras. As the sensor gets bigger, so does the production cost and ratio of faulty sensors to usable sensors coming out of fab. Hence the reason why larger FF cameras dont seem to share sensors across multiple models.
> ...




The 1DX MkII is crippled by not having the custom options nor touch screen functionality or the C-Log found on the 5D MkIV.

While they are at fixing them in a firmware update they could open up the HDMI out to 4K recording....

Absolutely crippled!


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## rrcphoto (May 23, 2017)

Chaitanya said:


> BillB said:
> 
> 
> > Sharlin said:
> ...



canon doens't do that. under most cases, each camera has it's own sensor.


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## rrcphoto (May 23, 2017)

BillB said:


> And they all seem to have the same sensor



not really. the t7i and 80D sensor are different than each other. I suspect the 800D, 77D and M5/6 share the same sensor, however, that may turn out to be an inaccurate guess.


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## djack41 (May 23, 2017)

Zzzzzzzzz..........


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## hbr (May 23, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> I'm just sick of hearing the people whine about "crippling" on every damn camera.



Me too!


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## c.d.embrey (May 24, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> I'm just sick of hearing the people whine about "crippling" on every damn camera.



I've always wondered how you _knee-cap_ a camera ??? It doesn't have legs  Also you can't infect a camera with the polio virus. So how exactly do you cripple a camera ???

Cripple is the wrong word. Cripple = lame.


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## BillB (May 24, 2017)

Chaitanya said:


> Digital imaging sensor is the single most expensive component of any camera so sharing same sensor across multiple models in any generation is smart way of saving money on production. Sharing sensor has nothing to do with crippling which happens with functionality of camera(memory card slots, video features, customisation options, etc...) which according to Canon hampers sales or more "expensive" cameras. As the sensor gets bigger, so does the production cost and ratio of faulty sensors to usable sensors coming out of fab. Hence the reason why larger FF cameras dont seem to share sensors across multiple models.



I am wondering whether the current situation is a little different than it has been in the past, because Canon seems to be in the middle of upgrading all of its cameras to dual pixel technology with on chip ADC, and doing so rather quickly. If the 6DII is announced in July and the SL2 in September, that would only leave the 5Ds(r) and the 7dII (and maybe some M's) with the older sensor technology. The past pattern of not sharing sensors may have reflected a more gradual rate of technology introduction, with longer periods between the introduction of the new cameras. If they are upgrading everything as quickly as possible, why not share sensors?


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## Don Haines (May 24, 2017)

BillB said:


> Chaitanya said:
> 
> 
> > Digital imaging sensor is the single most expensive component of any camera so sharing same sensor across multiple models in any generation is smart way of saving money on production. Sharing sensor has nothing to do with crippling which happens with functionality of camera(memory card slots, video features, customisation options, etc...) which according to Canon hampers sales or more "expensive" cameras. As the sensor gets bigger, so does the production cost and ratio of faulty sensors to usable sensors coming out of fab. Hence the reason why larger FF cameras dont seem to share sensors across multiple models.
> ...



Some of us have speculated that Canon is in the process of phasing out the old fabrication line, and as a result, everything is being redesigned to fit the newer (finer) lithography.... It is a cost cutting measure, but one which positively affects the camera buying public.


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## LonelyBoy (May 24, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> BillB said:
> 
> 
> > Chaitanya said:
> ...



Yup, it does seem that way. Which makes me think the 7D3 may come sooner than some think. Not sure what the sales rate is on the 5DS/R, but that's the one I'd least expect an earlier remake of.


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## unfocused (May 24, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> ...Which makes me think the 7D3 may come sooner than some think. Not sure what the sales rate is on the 5DS/R, but that's the one I'd least expect an earlier remake of.



Except that one could argue that the 5DS/R would most benefit from the newer sensors, because it is at lower ISOs that the new sensors have the most benefit and one might assume that the 5DS/R would more likely be used at base ISO, as opposed to a sports/birding/wildlife camera like the 7DIII. 

Still, I would tend to agree that the 7DIII is likely to come first. But, that may have more to do with competitive pressure than technology. The 7D has a strong competitor in the Nikon D500, while the 5DS/R really doesn't have a competitor.


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## BillB (May 24, 2017)

unfocused said:


> LonelyBoy said:
> 
> 
> > ...Which makes me think the 7D3 may come sooner than some think. Not sure what the sales rate is on the 5DS/R, but that's the one I'd least expect an earlier remake of.
> ...



Last time around the 7DII and the 5DS/R had the same pixel size, and they did the smaller sensor first, then upscaled the APS-C sensor to FF. Maybe they will do it the same way again.


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## Sharlin (May 24, 2017)

c.d.embrey said:


> I've always wondered how you _knee-cap_ a camera ??? It doesn't have legs  Also you can't infect a camera with the polio virus. So how exactly do you cripple a camera ???
> 
> Cripple is the wrong word. Cripple = lame.



I've always wondered how some people don't seem to grok that words can be used figuratively  :


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## Sharlin (May 24, 2017)

Canon used to milk the 18Mpix APS-C sensor for every last drop they could (and it's _still_ being used in the poor little T6/1300D!) Versions of it, with only minor differences,have been in use since 2009, in the 7D, 60D, 550D, 600D, 650D, 700D, 100D, M, M2, M10, 1200D, and the 1300D as mentioned.

Then there was the 20Mpix DPAF sensor used in the 70D and the 7D2, and the 24Mpix Hybrid AF used in the M3 and the 750/760D.

Those sensors were clearly just intermediate steps leading to the current 24Mpix DPAF sensor which, perhaps with some evolutionary improvements, is probably going to be manufactured for a good while.


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## Frodo (May 24, 2017)

c.d.embrey said:


> LonelyBoy said:
> 
> 
> > I'm just sick of hearing the people whine about "crippling" on every damn camera.
> ...



I had a 300D, which was a crippled 10D. "Crippled" was an appropriate term because there were inbuilt functions that Canon deliberately disabled to reduce competition with the 10D. A Russian hack that I used in my 300D allowed many, but not all, of the 10D functions to be regained. 
Magic Lantern provides for many additional functions, but this is different as many of those functions are not available in other cameras available at the time.


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## LonelyBoy (May 24, 2017)

unfocused said:


> The 7D has a strong competitor in the Nikon D500, while the 5DS/R really doesn't have a competitor.



That's exactly what I was thinking. The 7D line has to sell in higher volume than the 5DS/R, and the larger sensors at that resolution are harder to produce at acceptable yield.


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## LonelyBoy (May 24, 2017)

Frodo said:


> I had a 300D, which was a crippled 10D. "Crippled" was an appropriate term because there were inbuilt functions that Canon deliberately disabled to reduce competition with the 10D. A Russian hack that I used in my 300D allowed many, but not all, of the 10D functions to be regained.
> Magic Lantern provides for many additional functions, but this is different as many of those functions are not available in other cameras available at the time.



If it weren't for those functions being disabled, Canon just wouldn't have entered that price point. Don't like price point segregation? Pay up, Johnny Lunchpail. You're not going to get a top-end camera for a bargain basement price with just one meaningless feature gone.

Whine, whine, whine.


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## neuroanatomist (May 24, 2017)

Frodo said:


> A Russian hack that I used in my 300D



So there's a long history of Russian hacking. Interesting...


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## rrcphoto (May 24, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> BillB said:
> 
> 
> > Chaitanya said:
> ...



canon started that with the 70D there's no way in hell that a DPAF sensor was using 500nm design rules.


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## rrcphoto (May 24, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> Canon used to milk the 18Mpix APS-C sensor for every last drop they could (and it's _still_ being used in the poor little T6/1300D!) Versions of it, with only minor differences,have been in use since 2009, in the 7D, 60D, 550D, 600D, 650D, 700D, 100D, M, M2, M10, 1200D, and the 1300D as mentioned.



actually there was more than minor differences, alot of them had entirely different hybrid AF in the sensor. they were entirely different.


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## rrcphoto (May 24, 2017)

BillB said:


> Chaitanya said:
> 
> 
> > Digital imaging sensor is the single most expensive component of any camera so sharing same sensor across multiple models in any generation is smart way of saving money on production. Sharing sensor has nothing to do with crippling which happens with functionality of camera(memory card slots, video features, customisation options, etc...) which according to Canon hampers sales or more "expensive" cameras. As the sensor gets bigger, so does the production cost and ratio of faulty sensors to usable sensors coming out of fab. Hence the reason why larger FF cameras dont seem to share sensors across multiple models.
> ...



the sensors need different readout lane numbers because of fps performance. a dual DIGIC chip is different than a single DIGIC chip reading out the channels as an example.

canon really has never shared the exact same sensor across too many cameras. they always tweak it for specific cameras and there is always ongoing changes to the sensors as governed by what patents clear globally that canon can leverage.


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## LonelyBoy (May 24, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> BillB said:
> 
> 
> > Chaitanya said:
> ...



It does also depend on what you call the "same" sensor.

My wife worked for Intel and AMD (actually helped work on the chip in the XB1 and PS4). Chips of all sorts are constantly receiving tweaks, minor and major, to improve one or more of yield, reliability, power, or a host of other things. These chips show up as the exact same SKU, with the exact same name, and are only differentiated by a faint etching on the heatspreader (or in the old days, on the surface of the die itself). Back when I had more time and less money, and overclocked my CPUs, certain steppings were considered much more desirable because of having more overhead. I can almost guarantee that the last FF 22mpx sensor built for the last-assembled 5D3 is greatly different from the first, when examined closely enough. Is that difference lesser or greater than the difference between the 18mpx crop sensors that went into all the various Canon bodies that had 18mpx crop sensors? I don't know, nor do I know how much difference is allowable to be considered "the same". Just consider that if you pick up two identical Core i7s from the shelf, one could very easily be "different" from the other.


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## BillB (May 24, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> BillB said:
> 
> 
> > I am wondering whether the current situation is a little different than it has been in the past, because Canon seems to be in the middle of upgrading all of its cameras to dual pixel technology with on chip ADC, and doing so rather quickly. If the 6DII is announced in July and the SL2 in September, that would only leave the 5Ds(r) and the 7dII (and maybe some M's) with the older sensor technology. The past pattern of not sharing sensors may have reflected a more gradual rate of technology introduction, with longer periods between the introduction of the new cameras. If they are upgrading everything as quickly as possible, why not share sensors?
> ...



So, my phrase "sharing sensors" is not right. Would it be fair to say that the same basic sensor design could be adapted for use in more than one camera model? (Granting that Canon doesn't tell us very much about its sensor designs.)


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## Don Haines (May 24, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > BillB said:
> ...



And then we have the cases where two chips with the same part number come from two different plants......


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## rrcphoto (May 25, 2017)

BillB said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > BillB said:
> ...



fundamentally.. sure.

then again, fundamentally most sensors share the same basic design regardless.

a good example is that the physical SIZE is different between the 80D sensor and the 77D sensor.


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