# Happy ending...



## Dylan777 (Dec 14, 2014)

To make long story short, l had been using non-calibrated, non IPS, lower resolution(1920x1080 27") monitor as PP monitor. Everything looks great on the monitor. However when it comes to printing, well, I've always blamed on the local Walgreen for not using the best printer - my photos ALWAYS came out too yellow, orange, red too bright or too dark. So much frustration, it comes to the point that I wanted to quit printing.

Two weeks ago, my wife asked me to print some photos that I took at her company party. The photos will be used as Christmas cards. The original request came from her company VP. She picked out 10 photos and asked me to print them in 5x7. The due date for this project is Dec 16th. She clearly wanted these photos to look good. 

I'm glad to report that after spending nearly $3000 on new PC + higher resolution & pre-calibrated monitor + Canon Pro-100 printer(bought it new on CL for $100), I have completed the job before the due date. 

It's priceless to see the photos I edited in LR came out from the printer just like the way I wanted in the monitor - not 100% exact yet, I would say 95%plus. I almost cry when I saw the results. 

I thought I would share a happy story with everyone here.

For those who just started/new in photography, learn from my mistake. *CALIBRATE* your monitor before doing anything. It was day & night different for me. 

Dylan


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## danski0224 (Dec 14, 2014)

Yeah, I figured that out quickly after getting a printer and then the prints looked nothing like the monitor.

Even a calibrated 1920 x 1080 would be an improvement over not having a calibrated monitor.

I'm waiting for the 4k or 5k monitors to come down to an affordable price point, or at least <$2k and without tech glitches.


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## RLPhoto (Dec 14, 2014)

Cool. I thought you were a mac user? Maybe a mix up with someone else...


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## Valvebounce (Dec 14, 2014)

Hi Dylan. 
I have a Color Munki Display on my Christmas wish list, hopefully this will help with my photos. 

Cheers, Graham.


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## Marsu42 (Dec 14, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> To make long story short, l had been using non-calibrated, non IPS, lower resolution(1920x1080 27") monitor as PP monitor.



"Lower" resolution"?! Don't tell that to my 1366x768 and 1280x1024 work monitors :-o 



Dylan777 said:


> I'm glad to report that after spending nearly $3000 on new PC + higher resolution & pre-calibrated monitor + Canon Pro-100 printer(bought it new on CL for $100), I have completed the job before the due date.



When spending €50 on a calibration device, you don't need the very best monitor, they just provide more gammut and better viewing angles. But +1000 for calibrating your monitor (paying someone or diy), it's the most important thing next to buying a lens for your camera.


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## JonAustin (Dec 14, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> I'm glad to report that after spending nearly $3000 on new PC + higher resolution & pre-calibrated monitor + Canon Pro-100 printer(bought it new on CL for $100), I have completed the job before the due date.
> 
> It's priceless to see the photos I edited in LR came out from the printer just like the way I wanted in the monitor - not 100% exact yet, I would say 95%plus.



If you were to spend an incrementally small additional amount of your recent investment (~ 10% or less) on your own display calibration device, you might surpass your current 95%+ accuracy mark. (Does anyone _ever_ achieve 100%?) Not only that, but you should re-calibrate your display regularly (I do mine at least once a month), and anytime you're using it under substantially varying lighting conditions (i.e., daytime vs. nighttime, especially if your editing room is exposed to lots of daylight).

Since you're now printing at home (congratulations on your printer purchase, by the way), you might want to consider a device that can calibrate your printer as well as your display. I'm very satisfied with my ColorMunki Photo for both of these tasks. (Although, honestly, the Pro-100 is so good with quality papers and good ICC profiles, that the incremental improvements yielded by calibrating it will be quite small relative to a proper calibration of your display.)


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## Dylan777 (Dec 14, 2014)

danski0224 said:


> Yeah, I figured that out quickly after getting a printer and then the prints looked nothing like the monitor.
> 
> Even a calibrated 1920 x 1080 would be an improvement over not having a calibrated monitor.
> 
> I'm waiting for the 4k or 5k monitors to come down to an affordable price point, or at least <$2k and without tech glitches.


After playing with my 2560x1440 27" monitor, I now start believing in bigger and higher resolution ones. 4K 30" IPS could be my next purchase.


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## rfdesigner (Dec 14, 2014)

I'm only using my laptop screen (dire horrid thing, 90% sRGB) but I've got accurate colours thanks to my Spyder4 and I balance screen brighness vs a sheet of white paper held up next to the screen, since doing this I no longer get over light or dark images.

I still want a decent monitor, but I need to sort out an outbuilding first, which will then clear my study giving me the space I need


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## Dylan777 (Dec 14, 2014)

Valvebounce said:


> Hi Dylan.
> I have a Color Munki Display on my Christmas wish list, hopefully this will help with my photos.
> 
> Cheers, Graham.



I heard positive things about Color Munki

I bought this LG: http://www.lg.com/us/commercial/lcd-computer-monitors/lg-27MB85Z-B

It came with calibration hardware + software. It also has 3 pre-calibrated presets from manufacture - Gamma 2, 2.2 and 2.4. I'm current using Gamma2.2 preset. I only adjust the brightness and reduce to 50 seem to be a magic number for me.


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## Dylan777 (Dec 14, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > To make long story short, l had been using non-calibrated, non IPS, lower resolution(1920x1080 27") monitor as PP monitor.
> ...



I never thought I would jump into higher resolution monitor world, until I see it in action 

There is no point for me to buy and use 2560x1440 monitor when my 3yrs old laptop can only support up to 1920x1080. So, it was a complete system upgrade for me. The new BEAST is so fast. I'm blazing through those RAW files in LR. Loving it.


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## privatebydesign (Dec 14, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
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> > Dylan777 said:
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I was trying to tell you that! 

It is good to see that you are growing in all the areas this wonderful endeavor photography takes us, having the best camera and lenses is a small part of the process, computers, monitors, printers (if you really get into the printing now you have the 100), software, education, etc. all have their place, a completely unbalanced 'system' where heavy investment in one area but letting that capability slip due to shortfalls in another area is a key point of frustration for so many.


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## Marsu42 (Dec 14, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> computers, monitors, printers (if you really get into the printing now you have the 100), software, education, etc. all have their place, a completely unbalanced 'system' where heavy investment in one area but letting that capability slip due to shortfalls in another area is a key point of frustration for so many.



I agree, but if you have to make a trade-off because of limited budget, the core photography gear imho is the side to buy into as this will deliver good source data.

Sure it's absolutely frustrating seeing my old computer gear's crawling speed when postprocessing, but I get there in the end. Of curse if you're a time-limited working pro with schedules to meet, you don't have that kind of flexibility.


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## Ryan85 (Dec 14, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> To make long story short, l had been using non-calibrated, non IPS, lower resolution(1920x1080 27") monitor as PP monitor. Everything looks great on the monitor. However when it comes to printing, well, I've always blamed on the local Walgreen for not using the best printer - my photos ALWAYS came out too yellow, orange, red too bright or too dark. So much frustration, it comes to the point that I wanted to quit printing.
> 
> Two weeks ago, my wife asked me to print some photos that I took at her company party. The photos will be used as Christmas cards. The original request came from her company VP. She picked out 10 photos and asked me to print them in 5x7. The due date for this project is Dec 16th. She clearly wanted these photos to look good.
> 
> ...



Thanks for sharing and the advice.


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## Dylan777 (Dec 14, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
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> > Marsu42 said:
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Yes, you did. 

I now slowly seeing what you mentioned in the past. Let's just hope this small printing task doesn't lead into more expensive printing gear ;D

I bought a bundle of Canon Pro Platium 4x6(50sheets) yesterday afternoon. I played with my new system last night. I'm now down to 20pcs left. Looks like Canon just gained another customer in printing department.

Again, it's priceless to hold good prints(correct colors, brightness etc) coming out from your own printer.


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## Vivid Color (Dec 14, 2014)

I have to confess, I am completely confused about calibrating monitors and printers. I should say, that I understand why one needs to do it, it's how to do it in practice that I don't understand. I also don't know what I should buy as there seems to be a number of systems out there. 

I have a Canon 6D and several L lenses and recently bought the Canon PIXMA pro 100 printer. I use a 21 inch iMac for most of my post processing. And while I've gotten some pretty good print results without calibrating my monitor, I'm sure I would have a much easier time of getting the colors I wanted--and waste less paper -– if I learned more about monitor and printer calibration and profiles--I really don't understand profiles. I really enjoy printing my own photos -- and it's something that I would like to pursue, especially the large 13" x 19" prints. I also may in the near future upgrade to a 27 inch iMac – although I haven't yet decided between getting the retina and non-retina version. I should also note that my computer is located in a room with a lot of north facing windows (and one west facing window) and so the light changes throughout the day. From what I've read, this is probably one of the worst locations to put a monitor, but moving the computer to another room is not an option and room darkening shades aren't an option either. 

I would greatly appreciate it, if any of you could make some suggestions regarding which color calibration system for monitors and printers to get and also for any articles or videos that might explain more about all of this. And finally, what are the pros and cons of the retina iMac for color calibration. As I said, any suggestions or tips will be greatly appreciated. 

Best regards,
Vivid


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## Dylan777 (Dec 14, 2014)

Vivid Color said:


> I have to confess, I am completely confused about calibrating monitors and printers. I should say, that I understand why one needs to do it, it's how to do it in practice that I don't understand. I also don't know what I should buy as there seems to be a number of systems out there.
> 
> I have a Canon 6D and several L lenses and recently bought the Canon PIXMA pro 100 printer. I use a 21 inch iMac for most of my post processing. And while I've gotten some pretty good print results without calibrating my monitor, I'm sure I would have a much easier time of getting the colors I wanted--and waste less paper -– if I learned more about monitor and printer calibration and profiles--I really don't understand profiles. I really enjoy printing my own photos -- and it's something that I would like to pursue, especially the large 13" x 19" prints. I also may in the near future upgrade to a 27 inch iMac – although I haven't yet decided between getting the retina and non-retina version. I should also note that my computer is located in a room with a lot of north facing windows (and one west facing window) and so the light changes throughout the day. From what I've read, this is probably one of the worst locations to put a monitor, but moving the computer to another room is not an option and room darkening shades aren't an option either.
> 
> ...


I did little research on Gamma. I found this very helpful: http://www.cambridgeincolour.com/tutorials/gamma-correction.htm

Like I said, I'm using Gamma 2.2 that came from LG pre-calibrated preset. In addition to that, I used printer ICC profile + paper type in LR Print module. I got extremely good results. I would say 95%plus what I see on the monitor is what I'm getting in my recent prints.


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## Vivid Color (Dec 14, 2014)

Thank you for sharing the link, Dylan777!


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## Marsu42 (Dec 14, 2014)

Vivid Color said:


> I have to confess, I am completely confused about calibrating monitors and printers. I should say, that I understand why one needs to do it, it's how to do it in practice that I don't understand. I also don't know what I should buy as there seems to be a number of systems out there.



If you've got the $$$, get the stuff from x-rite. There's ...
* the color checker passport to calibrate the scene and lens: shoot it and then run the software on the img to create a custom dng profile (doesn't work for outdoor scenes, only constant light and studio.
* the monitor spider to calibrate your monitor to let you do proper post-processing: hang it onto your montor, click through the software and get an icc profile
* the printer checker so you can calibrate your prints to the chain before (this one is a bit more expensive)


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## Vivid Color (Dec 14, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> Vivid Color said:
> 
> 
> > I have to confess, I am completely confused about calibrating monitors and printers. I should say, that I understand why one needs to do it, it's how to do it in practice that I don't understand. I also don't know what I should buy as there seems to be a number of systems out there.
> ...



Thank you, Marsu42! How easy/difficult is all of this to use?


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## JonAustin (Dec 14, 2014)

Vivid Color said:


> I have to confess, I am completely confused about calibrating monitors and printers. I should say, that I understand why one needs to do it, it's how to do it in practice that I don't understand. I also don't know what I should buy as there seems to be a number of systems out there.
> 
> ... I should also note that my computer is located in a room with a lot of north facing windows (and one west facing window) and so the light changes throughout the day. From what I've read, this is probably one of the worst locations to put a monitor, but moving the computer to another room is not an option and room darkening shades aren't an option either.
> 
> ...



(I can't speak to the Macintosh world at all, at least with respect to the best Mac displays / hardware for photo processing.)

Any calibration hardware you buy will be bundled with a software application that walks you through the calibration process. Basically, the "puck" (colorimeter or spectrophotometer) rests against the display screen, and has a light sensor on the screen side. The software app displays a series of colors at known (reference) intensities, while the light sensor measures the displayed values. Then the output of the video card is automatically adjusted to match the display's output to the reference values. Some calibrators also measure the ambient light, and factors this into the display adjustments.

For printer calibration, one or more test targets are printed out, and the puck is used to measure the printed color samples against reference values. The software then builds an ICC profile which you can then select in your printer preferences to yield the truest colors in the final print. (Note that such custom ICC profiles are usually specific to a particular paper type (i.e., brand, finish, etc., such as Canon Pro Platinum N, Photo Paper Plus Glossy II, Pro Lustre, et al).


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## Valvebounce (Dec 14, 2014)

Hi Dylan. 
That monitor looks real nice. I think I will have a lot to learn, no idea about gammas or anything else. It is enlightening that you have such an improvement in your images. 

Cheers, Graham. 



Dylan777 said:


> Valvebounce said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Dylan.
> ...


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## Marsu42 (Dec 14, 2014)

Vivid Color said:


> Thank you, Marsu42! How easy/difficult is all of this to use?



Absolutely foolproof, the gear simply generates dng(lens), icc(monitor) softproofing(printer) profiles you install in your software. After that, you'll never need to think of it again, it "just works".

The only pitfall is that for proper color viewing, you need a "darkroom" dim ambient light and set the monitor to a low light level. Otherwise when working in a bright room with open windows it's very difficult to figure out how bright "bright" is and what contrast/gamma looks best.


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## tolusina (Dec 14, 2014)

TLDR version, 
Calibrate a wide gamut monitor, profile each printer/ink/paper combination to be used, soft proof in software such as Lightroom, you WILL smile at the results.
- - -


At the risk of being full of nonsense, here's my take on colors and printing.
- -
With my previous Monitor/PC/Printer set ups, all I ever got when printing was frustrated and poorer due to the expense of wasted paper and ink.
So I built a new Monitor/PC/Printer set up specifically with as near to total control of color as I could learn to do.

My conception of current high resolution displays is that they excel at pixel peeping tasks, unless they also display wide color gamut, high res by itself is not all we need, seek or wish for.
So, #1 monitor spec to seek should be wide gamut, there are a number of currently available displays from several vendors capable of 99%+ aRGB.


Then we want to add color calibration capability to/for that aRGB color space. 
We also need to consider ambient light while viewing our calibrated aRGB monitor.
Shop x-rite
http://www.xrite.com/
and 
datacolor
http://www.datacolor.com/

A self quote from a previous post in another thread, Custom ICC Printer Profiles
..........


tolusina said:


> http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/838847-REG/Datacolor_S4SR100_Spyder4_Print_SR.html
> 
> I'm liking it a lot. It's the last link in the color managed workflow chain.
> 
> ...


 
The monitor I chose is an NEC PA242W-BK-SV 
http://www.necdisplay.com/p/desktop-monitors/pa242w-bk-sv
It's got an extensive list of specs and features (much of it beyond me), its included and model/type specific x-rite/Spectraview II color calibration solution means that when the PC tells the monitor to display #000000, I'm assured that the red I see is really red and, um, it is really really red, so red it literally hurts to look at for long periods.
- -
This particular NEC also has the capability to use icc printer profiles, negating the need to soft proof in software such as Lightroom.
In practice, the procedure of switching from the calibrated monitor LUT to an icc profile modified view is tedious, time consuming and frustrating, snappy A<>B comparisons are just not possible.
Further, in NEC's own words, 


“_About ICC Profile Emulation_
_MultiProfiler uses industry standard ICC (International_
_Color Consortium) color profiles to emulate the output of_
_a particular device. ICC profiles contain data representing_
_the color characteristics of a device, such as a printer, film,_
_or display. MultiProfiler uses this information to create an_
_internal 3D LUT to emulate the selected device, and this_
_is saved to a preset in the display. While this preset is not_
_quite as accurate as a soft proof in professional photo or_
_video editing software, it does provide quick access to an_
_emulation of the ICC profile.”_


So, I suggest an emphatic *NO* to using MultiProfiler for softproofing, softproofing in Lightroom is far preferable.
- - -
I spent rather large both in expense and research time assembling my current Monitor/PC/Printer set up plus switching away from my worn out Nikon crop gear to 6D kit + 40mm pancake + 2X 600EX-RTs + ST-E3-RT + Pro-100 plus a raft of associated what nots, I can barely describe my delight when my very first print came out exactly as I desired, no waste, no tweaks, no disatisfaction.

No part of this particular color management system hands any part of color management to the PC's operating system. The display is handled by NEC's Spectraview II and hardware LUTs, icc error files are used for softproofing in Lightroom. For me, it all now just works.


I feel I'm now at the point I can step up to a large format roll printer and a MF Pentax 645Z and confidently expect gratifying results. 
Now to convince my budget.......
- -


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## jdramirez (Dec 14, 2014)

I calibrated my monitor and it is too damn bright for me. But i need to do some prints and see if I'm under or overexposing based on its current settings. 

But I'm glad to hear that the setup is working well for you.


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## tphillips63 (Dec 15, 2014)

I use the ColorMunki Photo. It has an option to do ambient calibration so as your lights change you can have it change to reflect that so it helps with the too bright display for me.

Several web sites have a lot of information on printing. Northlight, Ronmartblog, Luminous Landscape amongst a few. Basically getting a calibration device is number one, before the printer is best.

I would read them all and perhaps that elusive 5% issue will be solved.


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## Dylan777 (Dec 15, 2014)

jdramirez said:


> I calibrated my monitor and it is too damn bright for me. But i need to do some prints and see if I'm under or overexposing based on its current settings.
> 
> But I'm glad to hear that the setup is working well for you.



Can't believe I'm saying this...I'm printing x-mas photo cards for family members. Loving it ;D


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## ishdakuteb (Dec 15, 2014)

next time, try moab paper... you probably more pleased with this brand...

note: they do sell sample pack, two of each...

http://www.moabpaper.com


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## jdramirez (Dec 16, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> jdramirez said:
> 
> 
> > I calibrated my monitor and it is too damn bright for me. But i need to do some prints and see if I'm under or overexposing based on its current settings.
> ...



I took the pro-100 downstairs... So that's step 1... then unboxing... then installing the software... So I'm thinking by June I should by fully operational. Just in time for Christmas in July.

Speaking of Christmas... this is the photo I went with. I'm happy with it... but I didn't want to go any shallower than f/2.8/85mm because then one of the girls would be in focus and the other not...


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## Dylan777 (Dec 16, 2014)

jdramirez said:


> Dylan777 said:
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> > jdramirez said:
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The kids look adorable JD. Will be great for x-mas cards


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## Vivid Color (Dec 17, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> Vivid Color said:
> 
> 
> > I have to confess, I am completely confused about calibrating monitors and printers. I should say, that I understand why one needs to do it, it's how to do it in practice that I don't understand. I also don't know what I should buy as there seems to be a number of systems out there.
> ...



Hi Marsu42 and all others that posted in response to my inquiry:

I saw on CanonPriceWatch that B&H had a special on one of the x-rite monitor calibrators so I ordered it. 

http://www.canonpricewatch.com/blog/2014/12/hot-bh-dealzone-x-rite-i1display-pro-for-129-ar-one-day-only/

At an effective, after rebate, price of $129, it is less expensive than the company's other device. Wish me luck in setting it up when I get it! 

Thank you again for all of your assistance!

Vivid


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## jdramirez (Dec 17, 2014)

Vivid Color said:


> Marsu42 said:
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> > Vivid Color said:
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I have that one... And it does make a difference... but I haven't printed anything recently to confirm what I see on the screen is what is on the page.


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## dcm (Dec 17, 2014)

Guess I should have waited. I picked up the ColorMunki recently. Did a nice, quick job of calibration on my displays that support ADC. Sit back for 5 minutes and its done. It will be interesting to see how well the automatic adjustment for ambient light works.

Calibration for me is problematic since I am color deficient (protanopia - red weakness). I consult family members for a final check sometimes.


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