# Another Canon EOS R series body mentioned [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 30, 2019)

> We don’t think the following information is related to the Canon EOS RP but could be information related to a third Canon EOS R camera body coming later in 2019.
> *New Canon EOS R body information?*
> 
> The camera is in “final” development, but production has not started.
> ...



Continue reading...


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## 6degrees (Jan 30, 2019)

IBIS, eye auto focus, 4K, dual card slots, etc., as long as matching Sony a7riii in term of functions and price, I will start buying Canon R and RF lenses, mainly due to RF 50mm F1.2L.

Canon should release a Sony a7riii equivalent body next, not an entry level body, to make Canon RF 50mm F1.2L and Canon RF 28-70 F2L meaningful. I used Sony a7rii before. Canon RF 50mm F1.2L, and potentially other large aperture prime lenses in the future, created attention for me to decide to switch to Canon R and RF lenses. But if Canon R body is not competeable with Sony a7riii, I can’t make a move.

Wait for a decent Canon R body. I think this is what majority of Canon customers plan to do.


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## BeenThere (Jan 30, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


Dual card slots and joystick puts this a notch above the R, so maybe this is the 5 series equivalent. Grasping at vague hints here.


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## padam (Jan 30, 2019)

I don't think it will have sensor stabilization but the CFast 2.0 slot will be there to enable 4k at 60fps.


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## wockawocka (Jan 30, 2019)

BeenThere said:


> Dual card slots and joystick puts this a notch above the R, so maybe this is the 5 series equivalent. Grasping at vague hints here.



TBH it's all the current R model needs to be pro


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## Pape (Jan 30, 2019)

later R will be R5R i guess .
P is mirrorless 1 serie but cause only best camera can be 1 it stays as dslr name


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## vjlex (Jan 30, 2019)

Sounds like it could be my next camera!


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## amorse (Jan 30, 2019)

[heavy breathing]


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## yungfat (Jan 30, 2019)

Finally a 5D equivalent R....


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## LDS (Jan 30, 2019)

padam said:


> CFast 2.0 slot will be there



Maybe time to switch to CFExpress already? Even if there are not many CFExpress card on the market, it could be made compatible with XQD ones while being ready for the future.


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## transpo1 (Jan 30, 2019)

Seems there are many R bodies in the works- Canon playing catchup. I look forward to seeing what they come out with.


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## Del Paso (Jan 30, 2019)

I definitely like my EOS R, but it feels so lonely...


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## Josh Leavitt (Jan 30, 2019)

This would make sense if it's referring to a high resolution EOS R camera. I anticipate the EOS R replacement for the 5DS will debut in Q4 of 2019. Meanwhile, the entry-level EOS RP (or whatever they call it) will hit the shelves shortly after CP+ in February. I'm almost certain the second card slot is going to be CF-Express. It's fully compatible with XQD which will serve as a stop-gap until CFX cards become more abundant in the market. And Canon will likely try to roll out a 1D X III prior to the 2020 games, which will almost certainly have CFX.


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## Kerry Canon (Jan 30, 2019)

hopefully, i have been waiting for this


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## cayenne (Jan 30, 2019)

BeenThere said:


> Dual card slots and joystick puts this a notch above the R, so maybe this is the 5 series equivalent. Grasping at vague hints here.



Yup...if this is the 5D4 replacement I'll be looking seriously at getting one. My 5D3 is still working, but I would like to upgrade and relegate it to the backup camera status.

C


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## Pape (Jan 30, 2019)

nope they need first cash with 5k top model RP
next year they release R again with missing parts for those who can afford 3k semipro 5d4 replacement.


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## JonSnow (Jan 30, 2019)

CR 0.2 or what?


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## bokehmon22 (Jan 30, 2019)

Off topic question: If one card is XQD/CFExpress and the other is UHS-1 card, does the camera write to XQD until it empty the it to UHS-1 card?


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## Adelino (Jan 30, 2019)

6degrees said:


> IBIS, eye auto focus, 4K, etc., as long as matching Sony a7riii in term of functions and price, I will start buying Canon R, including RF 50mm F1.2 L.
> 
> Just wait for a decent Canon R body. I think this is what majority of Canon customers plan to do.


Not "majority of Canon customers" but maybe majority of high end Canon customers. We lose sight on the bigger part of the camera market.


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## padam (Jan 30, 2019)

LDS said:


> Maybe time to switch to CFExpress already? Even if there are not many CFExpress card on the market, it could be made compatible with XQD ones while being ready for the future.


Canon favours CFast over XQD/CFexpress because it mainly belongs to the competition (Sony, Nikon) and it is good enough for the given use anyway, also supporting existing cards that were used in a 1DXII for instance.


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## Architect1776 (Jan 30, 2019)

padam said:


> I don't think it will have sensor stabilization but the CFast 2.0 slot will be there to enable 4k at 60fps.



I hope it is CF Express not C Fast as C Fast looks to be a dead end system.


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## Architect1776 (Jan 30, 2019)

padam said:


> Canon favours CFast over XQD/CFexpress because it mainly belongs to the competition (Sony, Nikon) and it is good enough for the given use anyway, also supporting existing cards that were used in a 1DXII for instance.



Are you sure about CF Express? I thought it was the CF Association doing it.


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## peterzuehlke (Jan 30, 2019)

6degrees said:


> IBIS, eye auto focus, 4K, etc., as long as matching Sony a7riii in term of functions and price, I will start buying Canon R, including RF 50mm F1.2 L.
> 
> Just wait for a decent Canon R body. I think this is what majority of Canon customers plan to do.


I don't need Canon to match the video specs of the Sony (or the Nikon Z) or have eye auto focus as good as the Sonys (OMG the a6400), just like them to be competitive and have IBIS for my stock of EF lenses. and btw have you seen the RF 50 in person, it's giant.


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## Adelino (Jan 30, 2019)

The picture is getting clearer, maybe the R is a mirrorless upgrade to 6D2, this camera would be upgrade from 5DIV and the lower priced entry level RP would be upgrade from APS-C. Maybe.


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## Hector1970 (Jan 30, 2019)

50 MP
12 FPS
No blackout on shutter
Flippy Screen
Eye Tracking
1000 shot battery life
Silent Shutter
Computational abilities to track BIF
4K Uncropped
Great news Canon have been listening to me at last

Maybe I'm reading too much into it the post


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## bokehmon22 (Jan 30, 2019)

6degrees said:


> IBIS, eye auto focus, 4K, etc., as long as matching Sony a7riii in term of functions and price, I will start buying Canon R, including RF 50mm F1.2 L.
> 
> Just wait for a decent Canon R body. I think this is what majority of Canon customers plan to do.



Absolutely agree but given 5D IV release and EOS R release, we should temper our expectation a bit.

IBIS, dual card slot, joystick, better eyeAF (won't match Sony), better AF (won't match Sony latest FW), better sensor than 5D IV but won't match Sony and 4K cropped less. It will be at least $300-500 more expensive than the competition


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## risto0 (Jan 30, 2019)

Hector1970 said:


> 50 MP
> 12 FPS
> No blackout on shutter
> Flippy Screen
> ...



what about global shutter? too much to be asked?


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## risto0 (Jan 30, 2019)

I'm quite happy with my 5D4 but would look for equivalent mirrorless from Canon, incl. good ergonomics. Main reason I would switch from current camera to mirrorless would be lack of the need to calibrate lenses. I still haven't manage to perfectly calibrate my main lens  at some combination (focal lenght x distance of subject) it still manages to misfocus. And if i manage to fix one combination, it seems another one gets broken.


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## JonSnow (Jan 30, 2019)

Yeah well speed is sub par on the EOS R. I doubt professionell sports or even wildlife shooter will be happy with it....

So saying a second card slot and joystick is all that is needed, is a bit subjective.


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## Hector1970 (Jan 30, 2019)

risto0 said:


> what about global shutter? too much to be asked?


You are pushing it there. This is Canon not Sony


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## jolyonralph (Jan 30, 2019)

padam said:


> I don't think it will have sensor stabilization but the CFast 2.0 slot will be there to enable 4k at 60fps.



Why would it go CFast 2.0? Isn't CFast at a dead end now? 

Everyone else is going for CFExpress and/or XQD (which are closely related) 

Unless they have a warehouse full of CFast 2 interfaces they're desperate to get rid of Canon would be utterly dumb to put a CFast 2 slot in any new camera.


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## Dantana (Jan 30, 2019)

Hector1970 said:


> 50 MP
> 12 FPS
> No blackout on shutter
> Flippy Screen
> ...


That would all great, but I don't think you will see 50 MP and 12 FPS in the same camera. I think those will be separate bodies.


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## padam (Jan 30, 2019)

jolyonralph said:


> Why would it go CFast 2.0? Isn't CFast at a dead end now?
> 
> Everyone else is going for CFExpress and/or XQD (which are closely related)
> 
> Unless they have a warehouse full of CFast 2 interfaces they're desperate to get rid of Canon would be utterly dumb to put a CFast 2 slot in any new camera.


Actually, the dumb thing for them would be to choose what the competition uses. I already explained it, just seemed to slip by somehow...

Even the C700 uses CFast cards that's what Canon chose and will continue to do so (and it is also backed up by CFA, Arri, and Blackmagic ) until they feel it's worth upgrading, so it's a moot point if it has no tangible advantages at this point in time, but costs more money.


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## Tom W (Jan 30, 2019)

Now this sounds interesting. 5D4 level body. Wonder what sensor will be under the hood...


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## KeithBreazeal (Jan 30, 2019)

Getting rid of the FUBAR, real 8+ fps, and IBIS is good for me. I have several specialty lenses without IS, so IBIS would be icing on the cake. I would have much more fun using my Celestron C5 with IBIS.


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## dba101 (Jan 30, 2019)

Surely the only people that think Canon have to compete with Sony on specs, are interested only in specs.


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## jaayres20 (Jan 30, 2019)

I have come to really enjoy the Touch Bar and wold be very disappointed if it were gone. It is a perfect interface to quickly dial in correct kelvin settings. I can't think of a reason why I would need a joystick.


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## sdz (Jan 30, 2019)

If the FF ILC market shrinks, like Canon believes it will, then having two camera lines which mostly replicate the capacities of the other makes no economic sense. So, bringing mirrorless cameras to market to replace mirrored cameras makes great sense. Replace and retire. Support the obsolete line, do not replace it with same kind technology.

Expect this trend to continue with the M- and R-lines replacing their respective mirrored counterparts. The replacement rate may be faster than first expected given the rate the market contracts.


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## memoriaphoto (Jan 30, 2019)

Del Paso said:


> I definitely like my EOS R, but it feels so lonely...


get another one...


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## memoriaphoto (Jan 30, 2019)

This is the pro model and Canon has more or less mentioned that it is in the making.


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## Hector1970 (Jan 30, 2019)

Dantana said:


> That would all great, but I don't think you will see 50 MP and 12 FPS in the same camera. I think those will be separate bodies.


I can dream - some day it will be true. Then I'll be complaining about all the 1TB memory cards I'll have to buy


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## Ozarker (Jan 30, 2019)

If it doesn't have fly eye focus for macro, it's DOA. Canon is *******.


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## Ozarker (Jan 30, 2019)

6degrees said:


> IBIS, eye auto focus, 4K, etc., as long as matching Sony a7riii in term of functions and price, I will start buying Canon R, including RF 50mm F1.2 L.
> 
> Just wait for a decent Canon R body. I think this is what majority of Canon customers plan to do.


The majority ain't buying full frame.


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## gbc (Jan 30, 2019)

wockawocka said:


> TBH it's all the current R model needs to be pro


Having used the R frequently for the past two months, I would concur. Well, that is if they put the joystick in the regular spot and not the Touch Bar spot. They need to move the back focus button back to that spot. Worst part of the R so far, by far.


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## gbc (Jan 30, 2019)

jaayres20 said:


> I have come to really enjoy the Touch Bar and wold be very disappointed if it were gone. It is a perfect interface to quickly dial in correct kelvin settings. I can't think of a reason why I would need a joystick.


I mean, it's great that you have found a good use for it, but I think the VAST majority of users would prefer a joystick. I had to turn off the function bar completely because I kept accidentally activating it. For any sort of action photography, or even trying to take photos of moving kids, is pretty touch without it.


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## jolyonralph (Jan 30, 2019)

padam said:


> Actually, the dumb thing for them would be to choose what the competition uses. I already explained it, just seemed to slip by somehow...
> 
> Even the C700 uses CFast cards that's what Canon chose and will continue to do so (and it is also backed up by CFA, Arri, and Blackmagic ) until they feel it's worth upgrading, so it's a moot point if it has no tangible advantages at this point in time, but costs more money.



We will have to wait and see. CFast slots are bigger, slower and not upgradeable. The format has reached the end of its life. Still, Canon put an old CF slot in the 5D Mark IV when that format was already way past its best before date so nothing would surprise me.


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## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (Jan 30, 2019)

wockawocka said:


> TBH it's all the current R model needs to be pro



The lack of joystick is no problem right now. But if they added the joystick and still enabled focus on the screen as is now, then two styles of shooters would be satisfied. The camera is so good right now, the dual card slot matter is probably the biggest log blocking a stream of buyers. I own the EOS R and even with one slot, if all it could work with was the RF 50mm 1.2 it would practically be worth it just for that. But it's crazy exceptional with the adapted EF lenses.


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## dominic_siu (Jan 31, 2019)

gbc said:


> Having used the R frequently for the past two months, I would concur. Well, that is if they put the joystick in the regular spot and not the Touch Bar spot. They need to move the back focus button back to that spot. Worst part of the R so far, by far.


Correct, I don’t like the place of the AF-On button on EOS R as I use it for AF (I disabled AF function of shutter release button). Touch Bar I don’t really like it.


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## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (Jan 31, 2019)

I suspect an EOS R more advanced than the one for sale now wouldn't take a huge amount of engineering right now for the button and controls layout. I don't design cameras, but it would amaze me if Canon hadn't designed a half dozen variations already including where double cards fit.


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## stochasticmotions (Jan 31, 2019)

Hector1970 said:


> 50 MP
> 12 FPS
> No blackout on shutter
> Flippy Screen
> ...


make that animal eye focus and add a buffer for 50-100 raw and that would be my dream camera (at least for now)


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## MrToes (Jan 31, 2019)

Joystick and familiar layout like iii and iv would be quite welcoming! Two card slots would also be a sigh of relief! 


Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


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## Talys (Jan 31, 2019)

If it isn't worse-specced than the R, a joystick instead of the touch bar would get me to buy one, as I have a friend who would happily take my R at a slight discount.


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## Ozarker (Jan 31, 2019)

Talys said:


> If it isn't worse-specced than the R, a joystick instead of the touch bar would get me to buy one, as I have a friend who would happily take my R at a slight discount.


Talys, how has AF accuracy been with adapted EF lenses? I'm also hoping there will soon (made by somebody) be an M42 to RF mount adapter.


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## addola (Jan 31, 2019)

dba101 said:


> Surely the only people that think Canon have to compete with Sony on specs, are interested only in specs.



Exactly, but Sony also has to compete with Canon on specs, too. Canon has faster glass, and the EOS R has better AF detection range (down to -6 EV which is better than Sony A7S II). The usability you get from that doesn't usually transcribe into a spec sheet. With that being said, since Canon has fast heavy glass like RF 50 f/1.2 without image stabilization, an added IBIS would be very helpful.


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## Viggo (Jan 31, 2019)

gbc said:


> I mean, it's great that you have found a good use for it, but I think the VAST majority of users would prefer a joystick. I had to turn off the function bar completely because I kept accidentally activating it. For any sort of action photography, or even trying to take photos of moving kids, is pretty touch without it.


“Pretty touch without it”? What does that mean?

80% of my shooting is very activ kids, the R is great for that, and the Touch Bar doesn’t change that. If I wasn’t using BBF, the Touch Bar would have been a place to rest my thumb. But normally my thumb is on the AF-ON button..


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## Del Paso (Jan 31, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Talys, how has AF accuracy been with adapted EF lenses? I'm also hoping there will soon (made by somebody) be an M42 to RF mount adapter.


You can get your M42 adapter from Novoflex!


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## Ozarker (Jan 31, 2019)

Del Paso said:


> You can get your M42 adapter from Novoflex!


Ahhh... if I get an R, I will keep that in mind. Thanks! Have you adapted M42 to the R? If so, how is the focus peaking working for you?


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## wockawocka (Jan 31, 2019)

I just did a lookup on the speeds of Cfast and while it's an older system it still writes at 300mb/s vs XQD's 440mb/s.

Cards are cheaper too. With the current R topping out at 175mb/s write anyway I can't see a burning need for a faster card protocol, even the Current max CF cards write at 160mb/s

SD was always the bottleneck. While read speeds could always improve when copying files to the computer so long as one card (UHS-ii) is present I've never had a burning need for a faster card, or see a practical use for one. But that's just my option for my use case.

You'd have to be putting a heck of a lot of data through continuously. Maybe the EOS Cinema line but cameras that do video? Hmmm.


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## LDS (Jan 31, 2019)

Architect1776 said:


> Are you sure about CF Express? I thought it was the CF Association doing it.



You're right. In some ways CFExpress evolved out of XQD (which was already using the PCI Express bus), but it adopted, like CF and CFast cards before, the main storage access technology used on contemporary computing devices - it was PATA for CF, SATA for CFast, and now NVMe for CFExpress.

XQD used its own protocol, not a more standard and widely used one. Modern operating systems all support NVMe, so accessing cards won't need any special driver, ensuring better interoperability - and broader use.

Unlike the two previous standards that were designed for spinning disks, NVMe is optimized for solid-state disks (and cards) - and can reach far higher performance. If a camera needs to support faster storage access for more mpx, higher fps and hi-res. high-quality video, CFast will be soon enough a dead end.


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## Daner (Jan 31, 2019)

gbc said:


> I mean, it's great that you have found a good use for it, but I think the VAST majority of users would prefer a joystick. I had to turn off the function bar completely because I kept accidentally activating it. For any sort of action photography, or even trying to take photos of moving kids, is pretty touch without it.



Probably true that the vast majority of users who have grown accustomed to using a joystick don't like not having one, while the considerably larger population of users who have never used a joystick don't miss what they have never experienced.


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## koenkooi (Jan 31, 2019)

Daner said:


> Probably true that the vast majority of users who have grown accustomed to using a joystick don't like not having one, while the considerably larger population of users who have never used a joystick don't miss what they have never experienced.



Switching between my 7D and 100D was frustrating when I needed something else than the centre AF point. After selling the 100D and buying an M50 I'm a big fan of the touch-and-drag AF, set to top-right/absolute.
Having said that, I'm not sure how I would like that on the R, I've seen enough reports like "My thumb can't reach all the way, even in top-right mode" that I fear for my average sized hands.

If a new R model comes with a joystick I hope they add some form of acceleration and pressure sensitivity to make traversing those thousands of AF points nice and fast.


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## wockawocka (Jan 31, 2019)

Daner said:


> Probably true that the vast majority of users who have grown accustomed to using a joystick don't like not having one, while the considerably larger population of users who have never used a joystick don't miss what they have never experienced.



They'll probably miss it as soon as they try out another camera with one on and if they don't try one, they'll want to select af points quicker as they get used to the camera and they speed up in using it.

Nearly every present mirrorless camera manufacturer has a joystick present. Canon probably just wanted to seperate the models by taking something away.

They'll likely ask 4 large for their pro body so it has to be worth double the cost of the R. An already exceptionally capable camera. Dual card slots and a stick will do that. I think, don't quote me


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## Architect1776 (Jan 31, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> If it doesn't have fly eye focus for macro, it's DOA. Canon is *******.



LOL


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## Architect1776 (Jan 31, 2019)

stochasticmotions said:


> make that animal eye focus and add a buffer for 50-100 raw and that would be my dream camera (at least for now)



Why a buffer for 50-100 RAW?
It seems like there are many who shoot with the spray and pray concept even in sports and other action shots.
I cannot conceive of a situation for 100 consecutive shots unless one is just perhaps lazy in technique and just hoping the rapid acquisition of shots will make up for that laziness or perhaps lack of ability.
How did great sports photographers survive with 36 exposures at 3.5 FPS? And then special HS cameras at 10 FPS with 36 exposures?
Just wondering is as a whole there is a laziness and just hoping for a good shot by just holding the shutter down for long periods.


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## Architect1776 (Jan 31, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Talys, how has AF accuracy been with adapted EF lenses? I'm also hoping there will soon (made by somebody) be an M42 to RF mount adapter.



https://www.adorama.com/kalaeosrm42.html

And for those with FD lenses try this.
https://www.adorama.com/kalaeosrca.html


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## Pape (Jan 31, 2019)

Architect1776 said:


> Why a buffer for 50-100 RAW?
> It seems like there are many who shoot with the spray and pray concept even in sports and other action shots.
> I cannot conceive of a situation for 100 consecutive shots unless one is just perhaps lazy in technique and just hoping the rapid acquisition of shots will make up for that laziness or perhaps lack of ability.
> How did great sports photographers survive with 36 exposures at 3.5 FPS? And then special HS cameras at 10 FPS with 36 exposures?
> Just wondering is as a whole there is a laziness and just hoping for a good shot by just holding the shutter down for long periods.


They got 3 camera and nimble finger kid to change films


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## koenkooi (Jan 31, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> If it doesn't have fly eye focus for macro, it's DOA. Canon is *******.



It also must have a mode that picks the correct pair of eyes to focus on when shooting spiders!


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## Talys (Jan 31, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Talys, how has AF accuracy been with adapted EF lenses? I'm also hoping there will soon (made by somebody) be an M42 to RF mount adapter.



AF accuracy on EF lenses is bang on  Speed and performance in less-than-optimal light is good too, though it can't compare with a DSLR with a AF illuminator on a flash in poor AF conditions, like at fireplace/candlelight/dimmed light and a f/4 lens.


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## Ozarker (Jan 31, 2019)

Talys said:


> AF accuracy on EF lenses is bang on  Speed and performance in less-than-optimal light is good too, though it can't compare with a DSLR with a AF illuminator on a flash in poor AF conditions, like at fireplace/candlelight/dimmed light and a f/4 lens.


Thank you, Talys.


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## Ozarker (Jan 31, 2019)

koenkooi said:


> It also must have a mode that picks the correct pair of eyes to focus on when shooting spiders!


True. I hate when the camera can't do that for me.


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## jolyonralph (Jan 31, 2019)

Daner said:


> Probably true that the vast majority of users who have grown accustomed to using a joystick don't like not having one, while the considerably larger population of users who have never used a joystick don't miss what they have never experienced.



I like the joystick and use it a lot on my DSLRs, and I'm taking a while getting used to not having it on the R.

BUT, I'd trade a joystick in an instant for better in-camera eye/face/subject tracking and better artificial intelligence about where focus should be. Yes, I want to override that and do manually too, but I know a camera can be faster than me at making these decisions.


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## Dantana (Jan 31, 2019)

Hector1970 said:


> I can dream - some day it will be true. Then I'll be complaining about all the 1TB memory cards I'll have to buy


You can absolutely dream, but data throughput seems to be an issue, especially with with Canon's auto-focus implementation. Hence he cropped 4K video in the R. Maybe someday you will see all that in one body, but not until a really big technical leap is made in the way data is processed.

Just my opinion, but I think we will see, in addition to the R:

A slightly stripped down version (only because the rumors seem to point that way).
A high megapixel body (5DS replacement) to fill your 50 MP craving (but probably higher) with some pro additions like 2 card slots and maybe a joystick.
A general purpose pro 5D replacement more in the 30-35 MP range with an uncropped 4K implementation, along with the 2 cards and the joystick.
A high fps but lower megapixel body that also has uncropped 4K. It will be interesting to see the form factor for this one, if it's a full on 1D style body, or something slightly different.
All of these seem logical and and what the rumors are pointed towards.
For my personal use, the current R is probably just fine. I'm more curious about upcoming lenses.


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## Architect1776 (Jan 31, 2019)

Pape said:


> They got 3 camera and nimble finger kid to change films



Regardless, they could use one at a time. Still had to at a minimum change cameras.


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## Ozarker (Jan 31, 2019)

wockawocka said:


> I just did a lookup on the speeds of Cfast and while it's an older system it still writes at 300mb/s vs XQD's 440mb/s.
> 
> Cards are cheaper too. With the current R topping out at 175mb/s write anyway I can't see a burning need for a faster card protocol, even the Current max CF cards write at 160mb/s
> 
> ...


Seems I remember when the 5D mark IV was being speculated about... lots of people were begging for CFAST slots. Things change quickly, don't they?


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## rbielefeld (Jan 31, 2019)

Architect1776 said:


> I cannot conceive of a situation for 100 consecutive shots unless one is just perhaps lazy in technique and just hoping the rapid acquisition of shots will make up for that laziness or perhaps lack of ability.



There are situations where a large buffer, or a camera body with a fast enough buffer dump (Canon 1Dx II with Cfast, for example) to never hit the 'wall' with respect to slowing down frame rate, is very much a great thing to have. And, it has nothing to do with lazy technique, or hoping for a good shot by 'spraying and praying.' 

It does not take long to shoot 50+ frames when you are shooting at 14+ fps, and some great action sequences can last a long time relative to buffer size. For example, when you have a snail kite foraging in front of you and it decides to drop down and catch a snail right in front of you and then hover there for many seconds while it tries to open the snail and eat it. For me, this is a very rare opportunity, and I for one want as many shots of this action as possible. I want the max. number of images, not because I am hoping at least one of them will be in focus or in the frame due to my poor technique, but because the best composition showing the bird's eye, water drops, wing position, etc. is often a fleeing instance among all the action. A small buffer means hitting the fps wall very quickly, and this greatly reduces my chances of getting the best image of a rare bird. I want 14 fps for the whole action sequence, which in this case illustrated in the attached images lasted minutes, not seconds.

A large buffer and a very fast buffer dump rate is a wonderful thing to have when shooting wildlife action.


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## Michael Clark (Jan 31, 2019)

Architect1776 said:


> Why a buffer for 50-100 RAW?
> It seems like there are many who shoot with the spray and pray concept even in sports and other action shots.
> I cannot conceive of a situation for 100 consecutive shots unless one is just perhaps lazy in technique and just hoping the rapid acquisition of shots will make up for that laziness or perhaps lack of ability.
> How did great sports photographers survive with 36 exposures at 3.5 FPS? And then special HS cameras at 10 FPS with 36 exposures?
> Just wondering is as a whole there is a laziness and just hoping for a good shot by just holding the shutter down for long periods.



3.5 fps on a warm day with brand new batteries. If it was even moderately cold or your batteries were halfway between "new" and "won't drive the winder" you were lucky to get 2 fps.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jan 31, 2019)

Pape said:


> They got 3 camera and nimble finger kid to change films



I was one of those kids more than once.


----------



## Phynx2019 (Jan 31, 2019)

6degrees said:


> IBIS, eye auto focus, 4K, etc., as long as matching Sony a7riii in term of functions and price, I will start buying Canon R, including RF 50mm F1.2 L.
> 
> Just wait for a decent Canon R body. I think this is what majority of Canon customers plan to do.



In my opinion Canon produces a great product and dosn't need to match NO ONE. The only thing Canon should be doing is bringing to market an updated camera that performs better or provides better options than it's succesor.


----------



## gbc (Jan 31, 2019)

koenkooi said:


> Switching between my 7D and 100D was frustrating when I needed something else than the centre AF point. After selling the 100D and buying an M50 I'm a big fan of the touch-and-drag AF, set to top-right/absolute.
> Having said that, I'm not sure how I would like that on the R, I've seen enough reports like "My thumb can't reach all the way, even in top-right mode" that I fear for my average sized hands.
> 
> If a new R model comes with a joystick I hope they add some form of acceleration and pressure sensitivity to make traversing those thousands of AF points nice and fast.


I use bottom right for the touch and drag, which works fine, though not as good as the joystick. The problem is I have to shoot a lot in dark venues so I often have the LCD screen flipped closed, and it's impossible to use the directional pad buttons to move the AF point fast enough.


----------



## gbc (Jan 31, 2019)

Viggo said:


> “Pretty touch without it”? What does that mean?
> 
> 80% of my shooting is very activ kids, the R is great for that, and the Touch Bar doesn’t change that. If I wasn’t using BBF, the Touch Bar would have been a place to rest my thumb. But normally my thumb is on the AF-ON button..


Sorry, meant "pretty tough." Meaning that I've found it hard to move the AF point without a joystick (the original discussion being about removing the touch bar and adding a joystick). I also find the back focus button too awkwardly placed for my hand size. it's way too close to the edge and it becomes extremely uncomfortable after a few minuets.


----------



## Don Haines (Jan 31, 2019)

Pape said:


> They got 3 camera and nimble finger kid to change films


HA!

That was my job! Hauler of gear, loader of film, and making absolutely sure that the roll was loader properly and advanced. It was OK with the 35mm cameras, but the 8X10 was HEAVY!


----------



## Aussie shooter (Jan 31, 2019)

gbc said:


> Sorry, meant "pretty tough." Meaning that I've found it hard to move the AF point without a joystick (the original discussion being about removing the touch bar and adding a joystick). I also find the back focus button too awkwardly placed for my hand size. it's way too close to the edge and it becomes extremely uncomfortable after a few minuets.


That is one of my biggest worries about the mirrorless system. Real estate. Even though Canon has clearly beaten the rest for ergonomics in relation to body size it is still that bit too small to fit everything comfortably with a bit of resting space in between. Will be interesting to see how they deal with the issue in future iterations of the R series


----------



## Viggo (Jan 31, 2019)

gbc said:


> Sorry, meant "pretty tough." Meaning that I've found it hard to move the AF point without a joystick (the original discussion being about removing the touch bar and adding a joystick). I also find the back focus button too awkwardly placed for my hand size. it's way too close to the edge and it becomes extremely uncomfortable after a few minuets.


Ah, thanks for clearing that up for me, I should’ve know that’s what you meant ..

Canon should have added AF-ON on the Touch Bar perhaps also.. I’m not gonna say the AF-ON button is as nice and nicely placed as the 1dx2 for example. In fact, it’s placement nearly was a deal breaker for me since I struggle with joints etc, but my hands aren’t too large so it works for me, fully understand not everybody feels the same about it. They could’ve placed on the rubber directly center underneath the mode dial also


----------



## stochasticmotions (Feb 1, 2019)

Architect1776 said:


> Why a buffer for 50-100 RAW?
> It seems like there are many who shoot with the spray and pray concept even in sports and other action shots.
> I cannot conceive of a situation for 100 consecutive shots unless one is just perhaps lazy in technique and just hoping the rapid acquisition of shots will make up for that laziness or perhaps lack of ability.
> How did great sports photographers survive with 36 exposures at 3.5 FPS? And then special HS cameras at 10 FPS with 36 exposures?
> Just wondering is as a whole there is a laziness and just hoping for a good shot by just holding the shutter down for long periods.


I almost never (actually I have never) shoot 50 shots in a row, but there are situations when the action starts happening that you need to shoot bursts of four or five shots numerous times until the action has stopped. Maybe two animals fighting can last several minutes. I would prefer to have more buffer than I need, especially since I have run through this buffer on both the 5DIII and 5DS a number of times in those types of situations. Just because people didn't have it in the past doesn't make it useful to some people.


----------



## gbc (Feb 1, 2019)

Viggo said:


> Ah, thanks for clearing that up for me, I should’ve know that’s what you meant ..
> 
> Canon should have added AF-ON on the Touch Bar perhaps also.. I’m not gonna say the AF-ON button is as nice and nicely placed as the 1dx2 for example. In fact, it’s placement nearly was a deal breaker for me since I struggle with joints etc, but my hands aren’t too large so it works for me, fully understand not everybody feels the same about it. They could’ve placed on the rubber directly center underneath the mode dial also


 
I'm REALLY, REALLY hoping that the firmware update adds AF-ON functionality to the entire touch bar. That would basically solve my biggest (or second biggest) problem with the camera.


----------



## analoggrotto (Feb 2, 2019)

So its rumored to cost 1600$. Will they dig out the undesirable 6D2 sensor to drive this bargain? In an era where Sony delivers its very best at every try and risks self cannibalization to stay competitive; isn't this crap getting a bit old? C'mon Canon.... don't leave us out in the cold again :'(


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## dak723 (Feb 3, 2019)

analoggrotto said:


> So its rumored to cost 1600$. Will they dig out the undesirable 6D2 sensor to drive this bargain? In an era where Sony delivers its very best at every try and risks self cannibalization to stay competitive; isn't this crap getting a bit old? C'mon Canon.... don't leave us out in the cold again :'(



Another newbie joins to repeat the same Sony fanboy baloney. Welcome to the club!

Sony delivers its very best? You mean after 3 generations they still can't give us a camera that is not ergonomically awful? While the average photographer can't design a sensor, create software, or design a lens, give anyone a clump of clay and they can come up with a design for a more comfortable camera to hold. And while other cameras seem to have done an excellent job with sensor dust removal systems, many Sony users continually are plagued with sensor dust issues. Isn't that crap getting a bit old?


----------



## bokehmon22 (Feb 3, 2019)

analoggrotto said:


> So its rumored to cost 1600$. Will they dig out the undesirable 6D2 sensor to drive this bargain? In an era where Sony delivers its very best at every try and risks self cannibalization to stay competitive; isn't this crap getting a bit old? C'mon Canon.... don't leave us out in the cold again :'(



I agree. Most Canon user would defend the move as it's good for business. Sony is also rumored to reduce $200 for their A7III to $1800. They also have trade in as well.

$1800 camera for IBIS, better eyeAF, dual card slot although worst EVF and LCD screen.

Canon has a history of trailing behind the competitions in features. Their camera release is pretty disappointing in many ways like 6D II that had a MSRP of $2000 to $1200-1300.

I bought 5D IV and EOS R (return it). They are both good, but nothing amazing. EOS R do a lot of things better than Sony (EVF, ergonomic, control ring adapter, fully touch screen articulating screen LCD), but some of the thing worst while being more expensive than A7III (eyeAF, dual card slot, no joystick, IBIS).

I'm really tempted to by Panasonic S1 - dual card slot, dual IS, ergonomic, Sony sensor, good color, good video options, eyeAF with deep AI tracking, and Sigma will release 14 L lens with EF-L adapter this year.

I'm in the market for my first FF mirrorless this year. I'm holding on the hope that Canon will offer at least IBIS, newer sensor, better continuous eyeAF, and dual card slot, but I set my expectations accordingly.


----------



## analoggrotto (Feb 3, 2019)

dak723 said:


> Another newbie joins to repeat the same Sony fanboy baloney. Welcome to the club!
> 
> Sony delivers its very best? You mean after 3 generations they still can't give us a camera that is not ergonomically awful? While the average photographer can't design a sensor, create software, or design a lens, give anyone a clump of clay and they can come up with a design for a more comfortable camera to hold. And while other cameras seem to have done an excellent job with sensor dust removal systems, many Sony users continually are plagued with sensor dust issues. Isn't that crap getting a bit old?



Newbie here with a good amount of high speed L glass hoping to have something as good as a D850 or A7R3 to strap it to. We pay the same money is that asking too much? 

Stockholm syndrome much? 

Ergonomics? That touch bar on the EOS R is goofery.


----------



## analoggrotto (Feb 3, 2019)

bokehmon22 said:


> I'm really tempted to by Panasonic S1 - dual card slot, dual IS, ergonomic, Sony sensor, good color, good video options, eyeAF with deep AI tracking, and Sigma will release 14 L lens with EF-L adapter this year.
> 
> I'm in the market for my first FF mirrorless this year. I'm holding on the hope that Canon will offer at least IBIS, newer sensor, better continuous eyeAF, and dual card slot, but I set my expectations accordingly.



I'm not asking for much; AF competitive with Nikon's D850, stacked sensor for the almighty DR, and IBIS not because I bathe in taurine but have the option for some sensor shift goodness. DP-RAW is great, imagine DP-RAWx4.

Patent after patent after bloody patent and they hack the 6D2 lemon up and serve it for 4 figures?


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## analoggrotto (Feb 3, 2019)

Triple post. The EOS R is a good 1800$ camera. Probably an excellent one with this new vaporware firmware.


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## bokehmon22 (Feb 3, 2019)

analoggrotto said:


> I'm not asking for much; AF competitive with Nikon's D850, stacked sensor for the almighty DR, and IBIS not because I bathe in taurine but have the option for some sensor shift goodness. DP-RAW is great, imagine DP-RAWx4.
> 
> Patent after patent after bloody patent and they hack the 6D2 lemon up and serve it for 4 figures?



I don't think Canon will ever give us D850 camera which is arguably one of the best DSLR ever made and it has been released more than a year ago.

Canon has a patent of BSI illuminated sensor and I haven't seen any stacked sensor patents let alone implementing it . They are behind when it come sensor not just Sony but Nikon as well. Panasonic is still unknown.

Canon did come out and say the industry is contracting. "Additionally, we will also promote change in the distribution of internal resources, *from development* to production as well as sales & marketing." I think this mean they are shy away from spending more R&D for less profitable higher end market but aim to release a lot of lower end model EOS R model. They will follow the money which isn't wrong but they aren't the camera manufacturer for me.

They will slice and dice EOS R and using recycle sensor instead of investing R&D into things you and me may prefer - sensor, IBIS, continuous eyeAF. I don't do video so DPAF so it's meaningless to me. They will always be protecting their camera from their cinema line and DSLR until they have no choice to cannibalize DSLR. That's why they are the last company to have IBIS, uncropped 4K, and no card slot (same with Nikon).


----------



## analoggrotto (Feb 3, 2019)

Its a sad reality, the D850 really is just too good for any money. I'm holding position this year, my canon gear continues to do quite well but if they decide that the 6D2 sensor belongs in this new EOS R, my goose will be cooked. Canon has mad lens game these days, why not have the body to match? Do they want Sony to just eventually run away with their pro market too? After all Canon has done to have the most recognizable camera system in sports and competition... SMH.


----------



## SecureGSM (Feb 3, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> You are in the market for your first *mirrorless* FF camera this year? You do know the 5D IV (Your sig says you still have), 6D, and the R you returned were all FF, right? So you already have a FF camera. What gives, dude? Your Sigma 12-24 is an Art lens? Do you really own any of that? Or are are a troll from Sony?
> "Oh, what a tangled web we weave
> When first we practise to deceive!" -- Walter Scott



OP was referring to FF mirrorless specifically: "... I'm in the market for my first FF mirrorless this year..." I recon, apologies are in order.

I am in the market for my first FF _mirrorless_ 5D level body this or next year depending on availability of the pro level body from Canon. no, not changing the system anytime soon.


----------



## Ozarker (Feb 3, 2019)

SecureGSM said:


> OP was referring to FF mirrorless specifically: "... I'm in the market for my first FF mirrorless this year..." I recon, apologies are in order.
> 
> I am in the market for my first FF _mirrorless_ 5D level body this or next year depending on availability of the pro level body from Canon. no, not changing the system anytime soon.


You are correct! My apologies to Bokehmon22.


----------



## Viggo (Feb 3, 2019)

I’m so sick and tired of all the negative bullish!t from trolls around this forum lately... it used to be fun here.... and every time someone slams the eos r for example I wish I could take them out for a day and REALLY show them what that camera is about, I would change their mind in 20 minutes and convince most of them to get one by the end of the day.


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## bokehmon22 (Feb 3, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> You are correct! My apologies to Bokehmon22.


No worry I do own all my cameras and equipments. I can promise you that I'm not trolling just frustrated long time Canon user who is looking for professional FF mirrorless that has never switch and been waiting for Canon to come out with 5DIV equivalent model for a looong time. They don't want my money. 

I did buy EOS R and decided to return it. It's a great back up body to 5DIV but it's a side grade only. With so many FF mirrorless competitions, I figure 2019 is a better year to buy a new model. Maybe A7SIII/A9II, Panasonic S1, or EOS R Pro. I have around $3500 to spend on a new camera.


----------



## Michael Clark (Feb 3, 2019)

analoggrotto said:


> I'm not asking for much; AF competitive with Nikon's D850, stacked sensor for the almighty DR, and IBIS not because I bathe in taurine but have the option for some sensor shift goodness. DP-RAW is great, imagine DP-RAWx4.
> 
> Patent after patent after bloody patent and they hack the 6D2 lemon up and serve it for 4 figures?



DPAF and DP-RAW are two totally different implementations using the "split" pixel wells on some Canon sensors. Only a very few top tier EOS cameras (5D IV, EOS R, and additional cameras to be named later) do DP-RAW. DPAF deals with AF while shooting video or stills, DP-RAW deals with two slightly different versions of the raw files for still images that can be adjusted after the fact.

Anyone who calls the 6D2 a "lemon" with an "undesirable" sensor has obviously never actually used one and is just parroting what the spec-sheet worshipping YouTubers say to get clicks.


----------



## Hector1970 (Feb 3, 2019)

Viggo said:


> I’m so sick and tired of all the negative bullish!t from trolls around this forum lately... it used to be fun here.... and every time someone slams the eos r for example I wish I could take them out for a day and REALLY show them what that camera is about, I would change their mind in 20 minutes and convince most of them to get one by the end of the day.


I'm not so sure. Rose tinted glasses about the past I think. I don't think its any more negative than its ever been. People are always complaining. Canon users have been annoyed for years. It's always been a cross between die-hard Canon disciples, Trolls, Doom and Gloom Merchants and those who get disappointed with Canon from time to time. This mis-mash is the fun of the forum. If everyone was happy with the EOS-R it would be very boring.


----------



## analoggrotto (Feb 3, 2019)

Michael Clark said:


> DPAF and DP-RAW are two totally different implementations using the "split" pixel wells on some Canon sensors. Only a very few top tier EOS cameras (5D IV, EOS R, and additional cameras to be named later) do DP-RAW. DPAF deals with AF while shooting video or stills, DP-RAW deals with two slightly different versions of the raw files for still images that can be adjusted after the fact.
> 
> Anyone who calls the 6D2 a "lemon" with an "undesirable" sensor has obviously never actually used one and is just parroting what the spec-sheet worshipping YouTubers say to get clicks.



We have DP RAW as it is a co-product of the DPAF sensor design and I hope it sees further development and adoption in the future. The 6DII is a lemon, RAW files from my 5DIV are substantially better than those from my old 5dIII to which the 6DII's sensor shares some charactaristics (off board ADC, low DR). The 5DIII is no lemon because it was released in 2012 but to selling that same technology in 2017 and today is just appalling.


----------



## analoggrotto (Feb 3, 2019)

Viggo said:


> I’m so sick and tired of all the negative bullish!t from trolls around this forum lately... it used to be fun here.... and every time someone slams the eos r for example I wish I could take them out for a day and REALLY show them what that camera is about, I would change their mind in 20 minutes and convince most of them to get one by the end of the day.


But thats the rub; my 5D4 was released in 2016 and your EOS R was released 2 years later and the pictures would only be different because of the improved RF glass. Why not a body and brain befitting of the genitals?


----------



## Viggo (Feb 3, 2019)

analoggrotto said:


> But thats the rub; my 5D4 was released in 2016 and your EOS R was released 2 years later and the pictures would only be different because of the improved RF glass. Why not a body and brain befitting of the genitals?


I constantly every day get pictures I couldn’t get with the 1dx2. These cameras are very different. A lot thanks to the DPAF and EVF. If there is no AF point where I want it, there is no af point there. If the VF is optical it isn’t electronic. If the camera is lighter it isn’t heavier . I don’t understand why people in the market for a 5d4 complains about the R at all. I was in the market for a superb 50mm, somehow I manage to not constantly complain about a 24-105mm...


----------



## analoggrotto (Feb 3, 2019)

Im just hoping Canon RF is a worthy system before Sony takes the market and never lets it go again. If the system isnt competitive, the money disappears and we wont get updates or RF versions of those lenses and features that put Canon ahead all of these past years. 

What did Canon do to overtake Nikon? Are they ever willing to do it again?


----------



## Viggo (Feb 3, 2019)

analoggrotto said:


> Im just hoping Canon RF is a worthy system before Sony takes the market and never lets it go again. If the system isnt competitive, the money disappears and we wont get updates or RF versions of those lenses and features that put Canon ahead all of these past years.
> 
> What did Canon do to overtake Nikon? Are they ever willing to do it again?


Sony is loosing market shares to Canon every month....


----------



## Don Haines (Feb 3, 2019)

analoggrotto said:


> What did Canon do to overtake Nikon? Are they ever willing to do it again?



They are doing it now.


----------



## analoggrotto (Feb 3, 2019)

Viggo said:


> Sony is loosing market shares to Canon every month....



https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sma...ny-ff-mirrorless-share-increased-in-december/

So close to the EOS R release, this is a bad sign.

I'm holding out hope, keeping the faith that canon delivers on it's library of sensor patents soon.


----------



## analoggrotto (Feb 3, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> They are doing it now.


 The emperor does not share your optimistic appraisal of the situation.


----------



## Viggo (Feb 3, 2019)

analoggrotto said:


> https://www.sonyalpharumors.com/sma...ny-ff-mirrorless-share-increased-in-december/
> 
> So close to the EOS R release, this is a bad sign.
> 
> I'm holding out hope, keeping the faith that canon delivers on it's library of sensor patents soon.


Pfff, 

https://www.diyphotography.net/cano...of-the-japanese-full-frame-mirrorless-market/


----------



## AlanF (Feb 3, 2019)

Viggo said:


> Pfff,
> 
> https://www.diyphotography.net/cano...of-the-japanese-full-frame-mirrorless-market/


It quotes: "
That being said, Canon Rumors believes that Canon’s sales will go from strength to strength as their mirrorless line fleshes out. They predict that Canon may take a 50% share of the Japanese full frame mirrorless market by this time next year. Although they will obviously face some competition in the coming months."
Such is rumour.


----------



## analoggrotto (Feb 3, 2019)

Stiff competition? Ya don't say.... Recycling technology that would have been modern in 2013 isn't how one goes up against "stiff competition". 

The seldom seen 1500$ kid in the full frame space, the Nikon D610, already has more DR than this presumed lemon-lime. And what year was it released? 

We pay D850/A7R3 money for less of everything? Why?


----------



## Jack Douglas (Feb 5, 2019)

Bla, bla, bla.


----------



## Viggo (Feb 5, 2019)

analoggrotto said:


> Stiff competition? Ya don't say.... Recycling technology that would have been modern in 2013 isn't how one goes up against "stiff competition".
> 
> The seldom seen 1500$ kid in the full frame space, the Nikon D610, already has more DR than this presumed lemon-lime. And what year was it released?
> 
> We pay D850/A7R3 money for less of everything? Why?


Why? Because your ridiculous clame isn’t facts, that’s why...


----------



## jayphotoworks (Feb 6, 2019)

Viggo said:


> Pfff,
> 
> https://www.diyphotography.net/cano...of-the-japanese-full-frame-mirrorless-market/



Doesn't that show Canon's FF mirrorless marketshare drop from 22% to 17% from October to December? By December, Sony and Nikon both show an upward trend. Btw, both of these reports originate from "bcnretail" data in Japan. Sony also shows 4% growth in their IP&S segment within their recent Q3 reports, so it doesn't appear they are doing too badly since market share doesn't translate directly into sales. Sony's FY2017 forecast showed a pretty flat projection, but it looks like their FY2018 will show modest growth overall. We'll have to wait and see what happens this year.


----------



## analoggrotto (Feb 6, 2019)

Viggo said:


> Why? Because your ridiculous clame isn’t facts, that’s why...



I claIm :

Autofocus - Nikon D850 D500 do it better
Dynamic Range - Nikon, Sony do it better 
IBIS for Dual IS - Sony, and Olympus have it
Video stuff - Everyone does it better

Lens Selection - Canon has got it and seems to want to keep it

Want to keep this up? Is wanting better such a sin ? 5d4 sensor is one thing but the 6d2 sensor has no business in the next generation of Canon cameras.


----------



## analoggrotto (Feb 6, 2019)

Jack Douglas said:


> Bla, bla, bla.


 Anyway, those red poll shots are incredible. cheers !


----------



## Jack Douglas (Feb 6, 2019)

Many of us don't care about necessarily having the best gear because if we obsessed about it we'd never take a photo. If other gear is best that means you can take advantage of that and produce better photos and that's a win for you. Myself, I've never been the best at anything I can recall and anytime I thought getting more expensive gear would make me better it didn't work i.e. a $2500 guitar.

Jack


----------



## Viggo (Feb 6, 2019)

analoggrotto said:


> I claIm :
> 
> Autofocus - Nikon D850 D500 do it better
> Dynamic Range - Nikon, Sony do it better
> ...


The D850 costs over 2000 USD more than the R here. I buy video gear for video, besides, the R has gotten rightful credit for being some of the bes FHD video there is. It’s all this talking down about the R that just shows me you haven’t used it, it’s just repeating wrong info. About IS, there is enough info about why Canon has kept it, for now, in the lenses. I don’t need IBIS, and I’m really glad Canon spent money where it matters in the R. And I’m not alone this, otherwise they wouldn’t have sold any.

Dynamic Range is more than enough in the R, the claimed banding is just when using flash and IRL this hasn’t been even a slight issue because I control exposure of both subject and background. I enjoy the insanely accurate AF I can place anywhere and the superb screen and EVF that neither Sony or Nikon has. The lenses are the best there is. And that’s where Canon spent money and the sensor was already fantastic. 

People always fail to se WHY something is more expensive than some other stuff.

I was recently shopping for a new vacuum cleaner, they all cost between 100 and 1000 USD, all the specs looked nearly identical and the seller didn’t know the difference either, I found tests, but they contradicted the user reviews. So tell me again how specs is the difference between cameras...


----------



## Viggo (Feb 6, 2019)

Animal EYE-AF might be needed in other cameras, but in the R it just finds the eyes and misses the nose and forehead with normal tracking and I can place the AF point far enough to the side to not crop at the tail etc. I then get very sharp results at f1.2, neither Sony, Olympus or Nikon can actually do this shot in the same way. A simple snap... this is just raw to jpeg in camera to iPhone.


----------



## analoggrotto (Feb 6, 2019)

Jack Douglas said:


> Many of us don't care about necessarily having the best gear because if we obsessed about it we'd never take a photo. If other gear is best that means you can take advantage of that and produce better photos and that's a win for you. Myself, I've never been the best at anything I can recall and anytime I thought getting more expensive gear would make me better it didn't work i.e. a $2500 guitar.
> 
> Jack


Quite true. I remember attending a Vincent Versace talk as part of some photoclub that I never bothered joining where everyone dogged the guy out to find out what his gear was. It was the one time that the notepads came out. In the elevator down, I told a lady that the gear doesent matter and she was quite appalled in disbelief of it. They all do the same thing; I have 10x more speeding tickets from my white pickup truck than my bright orange sports car.

For the record; I'm going to get an EOS R when either 1/ they offer a pancake lens 2/ it becomes a useful functional upgrade to my much loved 5d4.

If you don't mind my asking; how does one get so close to these feisty little birds? Are you using some sort of hunting shelter?


----------



## Jack Douglas (Feb 6, 2019)

analoggrotto said:


> Quite true. I remember attending a Vincent Versace talk as part of some photoclub that I never bothered joining where everyone dogged the guy out to find out what his gear was. It was the one time that the notepads came out. In the elevator down, I told a lady that the gear doesent matter and she was quite appalled in disbelief of it. They all do the same thing; I have 10x more speeding tickets from my white pickup truck than my bright orange sports car.
> 
> For the record; I'm going to get an EOS R when either 1/ they offer a pancake lens 2/ it becomes a useful functional upgrade to my much loved 5d4.
> 
> If you don't mind my asking; how does one get so close to these feisty little birds? Are you using some sort of hunting shelter?



A few years ago I made the effort to chop out a part of the roof of a small barn attic and add a turret of sorts that upon stepping on a stool puts me at eye level to a rigidly mounted gimbal that the (then) 300 lens was suspended from. I made sure there was always food around and over a period of time many visitors would come. There is a nice group of trees there and and the lighting is appropriate. I have, way back, posted shots of this very tedious project that has worked exceedingly well. There is a heater, and an easy chair to read in while watching a monitor that displays the view up where the camera resides. The photo is the only one I could find of the unfinished job. This chickadee shot is one out of maybe 3 or 4 hundred that was acceptable - no AF is capable of this, it takes time and planning, that was shot from there. The nuthatch was shot from there too. BTW - shot with the terrible, much maligned 6D.

So, for your best close shots some sort of hidden shooting is the way to go but one can luck out anywhere, anytime, as demonstrated by the fox, provided you have your gear ready like grandpa used to have his gun ready, loaded, standing in the back entrance until grandma blew her top.

I need decent gear but not the best to get very acceptable photos,




provided I put in the effort. It's my wife who's always pushing me to spend more to upgrade!

Wonder why we don't see more photos in these threads? Specs are easier to brow beat with and impress some folk more.

Jack


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## analoggrotto (Feb 7, 2019)

Jack Douglas said:


> So, for your best close shots some sort of hidden shooting is the way to go but one can luck out anywhere, anytime, as demonstrated by the fox, provided you have your gear ready like grandpa used to have his gun ready, loaded, standing in the back entrance until grandma blew her top.



This is great stuff, your gear is your barn setup! I don't hunt, but always wondered if hunting techniques would be helpful for this application. See, the issue I have it that my back yard is canopied by tall trees which the birds truly love but also block good light for much of the day especially in the summer time. But I get a few from time to time. The attached pine warbler was taken with my further dismal 5d3 and the first version of the non IS 300/2.8 and a 2x extender while hiding behind an Air Conditioning unit in my pajamas. The robin was one of the first taken with my 5d4 with the same lenses and a 600RT from behind a tall prickly shrub. I think i can park my truck beside a creep myrtle , bait it with food and just quietly sit in the driver's seat with the windows down waiting. 

That chickadee shot is just awesome, those things are fast and always needling each other (survival training?), I truthfully couldnt begin to understand how you pulled that off. Thanks for posting the nuthatch, thats one of my all time favorite birds - very admirable in their family structures. 



cheers!


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## Jack Douglas (Feb 7, 2019)

analoggrotto said:


> This is great stuff, your gear is your barn setup! I don't hunt, but always wondered if hunting techniques would be helpful for this application. See, the issue I have it that my back yard is canopied by tall trees which the birds truly love but also block good light for much of the day especially in the summer time. But I get a few from time to time. The attached pine warbler was taken with my further dismal 5d3 and the first version of the non IS 300/2.8 and a 2x extender while hiding behind an Air Conditioning unit in my pajamas. The robin was one of the first taken with my 5d4 with the same lenses and a 600RT from behind a tall prickly shrub. I think i can park my truck beside a creep myrtle , bait it with food and just quietly sit in the driver's seat with the windows down waiting.
> 
> That chickadee shot is just awesome, those things are fast and always needling each other (survival training?), I truthfully couldnt begin to understand how you pulled that off. Thanks for posting the nuthatch, thats one of my all time favorite birds - very admirable in their family structures.
> 
> ...



So all I can say is if you have/had a 5D3 and 300 2.8 (hopefully X2) then you're set for a high percentage of what is required for bird photography. Shooting from a vehicle works well for sure. A portable blind is good too and here is the killer that many don't realize; just _sitting still_ in a lawn chair in the bush gets me many shots and a peaceful moment to reflect or even read a book while waiting. A fair amount of wildlife are frightened by movement and/or a person standing.

I understand the desire for features but for my shooting the only feature that has really helped me so far is FPS relative to catching a more desirable pose of a creature in movement. More culling though. Now, FPS + more MPs + great high ISO, that would be awesome but the these tend to work against one another.

Jack


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## analoggrotto (Feb 7, 2019)

Jack Douglas said:


> Wonder why we don't see more photos in these threads? Specs are easier to brow beat with and impress some folk more.
> 
> Jack


We can go have a post somwhere else then


Jack Douglas said:


> So all I can say is if you have/had a 5D3 and 300 2.8 (hopefully X2) then you're set for a high percentage of what is required for bird photography. Shooting from a vehicle works well for sure. A portable blind is good too and here is the killer that many don't realize; just _sitting still_ in a lawn chair in the bush gets me many shots and a peaceful moment to reflect or even read a book while waiting. A fair amount of wildlife are frightened by movement and/or a person standing.
> 
> 
> Jack



Good idea. I used to mess with rocks and stuff on some tables against the house less than 10 ft away from the feeders just to turn around and realize the birds had all returned to eating and had completely ignored me. Of course I hadn't a camera with me. They may be attuned to the appearance of a camera, a hummingbird once chased me down from across the yard to get a better look at the 300/2.8. That lens has a minimum focus distance of around 3m (the new one is 2m I think) which has definitely cost a few good shots. I also think a gimble is needed, full hand holding gets to be cumbersome. Whatever the shot is, its achievable with this 5D4.


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## Pape (Feb 10, 2019)

Later R camera could be also R mark ii ,with ibis and pixel shift . sounds too big leap from 50 to 100mpixel.
I dont know if they yet need move all dslr camera lines to mirrorless , lowpixel 5 line and consumer 6 line sounds enough atm?


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## Jack Douglas (Feb 10, 2019)

Pape said:


> Later R camera could be also R mark ii ,with ibis and pixel shift . sounds too big leap from 50 to 100mpixel.
> I dont know if they yet need move all dslr camera lines to mirrorless , lowpixel 5 line and consumer 6 line sounds enough atm?



Lots of questions presently without answers. You could be right. I'm convinced the next R after RP, will be along the lines of the 5DSR but can't believe the MPs will double.

Jack


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## Pape (Feb 10, 2019)

to follow latest fashion it could be re-used 5ds sensor with pixel shift too .
When they bring new sensor generation ,i would think they use first it with 1Dx3


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