# Two Canon EOS R series bodies coming in 2019 [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 18, 2018)

> I think we all expect to see the new EOS R line of cameras and RF line of lenses to grow quickly. Canon has the R&D and manufacturing resources to make it happen.
> We’re told that two EOS R series bodies will be coming in 2019. One will be slotted below the Canon EOS R itself and will come first. The second body will be a “professional” series camera coming later in 2019. What “professional” means is unknown at this time. It could be a baby EOS-1D X Mark II built for speed and video, or it could be a high megapixel body meant for studio and landscape work. We probably won’t get clarity on this until into 2019.
> While we have heard that an EOS R series camera with an APS-C sensor is a possibility, this source noted that they’ve seen nothing to suggest one is coming in 2019, saying “We won’t be getting an EOS R version of the EOS 7D Mark II”.
> Canon will also be focused on DSLRs, as at least four new DSLR bodies are expected in 2019...



Continue reading...


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## Bob Howland (Oct 18, 2018)

There are Summer Olympics in 2020. I would be amazed if Nikon and Canon (and maybe Panasonic) didn't introduce high end sports oriented cameras before then.

Update: Or maybe two, one EOS R and one DSLR. And why not a 7D2 level body on the M series, that could still use EF/EFS lenses, at least from a technical standpoint since I doubt that they would sell many.


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## ethanz (Oct 18, 2018)

Wow, lots of cameras coming in 2019. 
How much lower than the EOS R can you make a full frame camera?


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## Maximilian (Oct 18, 2018)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> ... One will be slotted below the Canon EOS R itself and will come first ...


Really interesting move from Canon that I wasn't expecting.

In two ways:

I wasn't expecting any FF body below the EOS R at all.
I was expecting a "professional", more studio oriented body first.
Conclusion:
Canon wants to get this system into the marked really fast and with a high market share compared to Sony and Nikon, and Panasonic not to forget.
So they are aiming a lot at enthusiasts that are not so much willing to spend high amounts of money in short time.
Smart move IMO.


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## JonSnow (Oct 18, 2018)

ethanz said:


> Wow, lots of cameras coming in 2019.
> How much lower than the EOS R can you make a full frame camera?



yeah 
i guess canon thinks people are stupid enough to fall for FF no matter what.
looking at the features from the X-T3 ...

i rather have a great APS-C than a stripped down FF camera.
and what about lenses?
for a cheapish FF camera you need lenses to go with it.
who buys a 2000+ euro lens for a 1600-1700 euro camera?
and who buys EF lenses when he only has an RF mount camera?
i doubt canon only wants to sell this to old folks who already own a ton of canon glass?
2 new camera models are nice.. but canon needs to bring more lenses.
70-200, cheaper 50mm, wide primes, wideangle zooms etc. etc.

i would wish they bring a decent speced 40+ MP EOS R model sooner than later.
i am not interested in an even lower speced fullframe camera....


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## josephandrews222 (Oct 18, 2018)

Exciting (but not unexpected) news/rumors--I'm a bit surprised, though, about the possibility of a less-expensive R mount body...all of which points to Canon going all in on R. 

It seems to me that the demand for certain EF mount lenses will begin to diminish.


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## jschoonj (Oct 18, 2018)

I'm not buying the EOS R APSC camera stuff. EOS M is the APSC Mount.


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## nchoh (Oct 18, 2018)

JonSnow said:


> yeah
> 
> i guess canon thinks people are stupid enough to fall for FF no matter what.



Or maybe they just don't want to not loose market share?


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## Stuart (Oct 18, 2018)

I want FF because its better in low light and has better DOF opportunities. I'm happy with cheaper lenses, even EF adapted lenses. So YES PLEASE - a FF below the EOS R. 
I want Mirrorless for silent shooting and potentially faster fps and and wider/faster lenses.

And i can still desire the latest L lenses - e.g. 28-70 F2


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## Steve Balcombe (Oct 18, 2018)

Bob Howland said:


> And why not a 7D2 level body on the M series, that could still use EF/EFS lenses, at least from a technical standpoint since I doubt that they would sell many.


Because for anyone who actually uses the 7D class performance, smaller and fiddlier to operate is the last thing you need.


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## mensaf (Oct 18, 2018)

EOS M is their APSC line. The M5 mkii (and probably M6 mkii) is already going to have dpaf @4k next year. If they're releasing a less expensive EOS R, it's probably going to be the full frame equivalent of that, but use the RF mount.


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## criscokkat (Oct 18, 2018)

I wonder if we will see a true 6d level camera as the lower end one. Possibly slightly cheaper than the existing 6dII price point. As much as I want full frame, I don't know if I'd want anything slower than the R as I use my 80D to capture BMX racing photos. (As a hobby that my kids participate in, so I can't afford to get a 1dx like I crave, and a used 7dII isn't as good at lower light levels in the fall or during the indoor season in the winter).

The real question is if they will release an aps-c RF mount camera. Because I can't think of many things they could remove from the R to make it cheaper without making the existing R be considered a bad investment because a lot of the specs are not the best to begin with. (of course this could be on purpose too, to generate more excitement with improvements, not just another RF mount camera)


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## NetMage (Oct 18, 2018)

I hope the 7D3 comes out, but is more a throw back to the 7D - the best APS-C body for all photography, not just sports focused.


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## ecpu (Oct 18, 2018)

Lower spec than EOS R??? Wow. In other news, my A7III arrived last Friday. I still have my Canon setup and have been using both systems side by side. Message me if you're interested in further details.


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## Proscribo (Oct 18, 2018)

ethanz said:


> How much lower than the EOS R can you make a full frame camera?


No top lcd, no twin dials, no touch bar (not saying it should even be included ever again), lower-end EVF, smaller battery, less customization... for 999€. Needs f/3.5-5.6 kit zoom to go with it too.
Edit. wait did I just describe FF M50?


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## Adrianf (Oct 18, 2018)

The M50 was supposed to be a lower spec than the M5, but in many ways it beats it. Things are moving so fast that the next FF "lower than EOS R" may, in fact be a better camera, at least in some respects. It's great to know that Canon is putting a lot of effort into product development now after a few quiet years. Exciting times...


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## amorse (Oct 18, 2018)

That is an interesting rumour.

I guess I had it in my mind that they would gradually mirror their DSLR offerings in the mirrorless realm (pun intended). When the R was released at the 6D II price point but with a 5D IV sensor, I was really at a loss as to where it fit in the lineup, but eventually landed on I feeling that price was the best indicator of what Canon thought of the offering. If a camera is released below the R, then I just don't know where that would fit - that could be a new lowest price point for full frame in the Canon realm, unless it isn't full frame.

I wonder if that camera isn't below the R in the lineup but rather a low-resolution video-centric camera like the a7S series? That could make some sense.

Sure, releasing a model above the R makes sense - the market has shown that buyers are willing to pay more than $3k for a do-it-all body, or $6k for a sports camera. I'd be shocked if Canon decided to not go after those buyers. With that said, I am really curious about whether or not they'd try to make a 1Dxii comparable R series camera right away - it seems like a gamble with a potential opportunity/risk. If Canon pushes it out for the olympics that auto focus has got to be ready to handle that type of shooting.

Again, If they release a 5DS/SR equivalent mirrorless, I'd sure have a good hard look at it.

I guess we'll learn more soon!


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## CarlMillerPhoto (Oct 18, 2018)

A body lower than the R first?! The R didn't exactly sellout. Every place I looked had stock after filling preorders. Not sure the masses will get excited for a body with even less features, despite a lower price point. What we really need is a pro-level body. It's clear Canon wants pros in the R mount based on the lenses, but has been totally ambiguous about when we can expect a pro RF body to pair them with. Get a flagship RF out and get people excited about the system. All I have is excitement for lenses I'm still not able to use unless I downgrade my body.


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## mensaf (Oct 18, 2018)

criscokkat said:


> I wonder if we will see a true 6d level camera as the lower end one. Possibly slightly cheaper than the existing 6dII price point. As much as I want full frame, I don't know if I'd want anything slower than the R as I use my 80D to capture BMX racing photos. (As a hobby that my kids participate in, so I can't afford to get a 1dx like I crave, and a used 7dII isn't as good at lower light levels in the fall or during the indoor season in the winter).
> 
> The real question is if they will release an aps-c RF mount camera. Because I can't think of many things they could remove from the R to make it cheaper without making the existing R be considered a bad investment because a lot of the specs are not the best to begin with. (of course this could be on purpose too, to generate more excitement with improvements, not just another RF mount camera)


bud, you need to just pick up the viltrox speedbooster coming out next month and slap it on the m50. I'm in the same boat but got one of those custom ones. I'll be picking up a viltrox next month along with a second m50 and then the M5 mkii when it comes out. Image quality is pretty legit on it. I do mostly video but took photos this past weekend and I'll be all right with this setup for a while, just wish the M cameras had weather sealing.


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## jolyonralph (Oct 18, 2018)

If they do a lower than the R I'd expect them to release a non-L kit lens too. Maybe a 24-105 STM or possibly a slower 24-70 or 28-70.


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## koenkooi (Oct 18, 2018)

CarlMillerPhoto said:


> [..]The R didn't exactly sellout. Every place I looked had stock after filling preorders.[..]



That's a relative measure, not an absolute one. If, for example, Sony ships 100 A7IIIs to a store which has 120 preorders and Canon ships 200 Rs for 130 preorders, which company did better? Your metric implies that Sony would've done 'better', since they sold out and the Rs didn't.


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## LDS (Oct 18, 2018)

ethanz said:


> How much lower than the EOS R can you make a full frame camera?



A 200D class FF mirrorless camera would be interesting...


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## LDS (Oct 18, 2018)

JonSnow said:


> who buys a 2000+ euro lens for a 1600-1700 euro camera?



Why not? An L lens on an 80D will deliver better photos than a cheap lens on an 1DX most of the times.


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## koenkooi (Oct 18, 2018)

JonSnow said:


> [..]
> who buys a 2000+ euro lens for a 1600-1700 euro camera?
> and who buys EF lenses when he only has an RF mount camera?
> [..]



Well, my most used setup during summer is an EOS M1 + MP-E65mm + MT-24EX + GP-E2. The camera was about €200, the lens+flash+gps about ten times more. The 7D1 and sigma 150mm OS are a bit better matched price wise


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## tmc784 (Oct 18, 2018)

at least four new DSLR bodies are expected in 2019. 
Is that what they said ?


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## LesC (Oct 18, 2018)

An R version of the 6D MKII with built in GPS would suit me fine


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## Architect1776 (Oct 18, 2018)

ethanz said:


> Wow, lots of cameras coming in 2019.
> How much lower than the EOS R can you make a full frame camera?



Is the APSC format going to die as manufacturing improves? Or the M series will be the APSC cameras of the future and the R will have inexpensive full frame bodies.
Lots of ways to go, these are just some far out thoughts.


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## SaP34US (Oct 18, 2018)

Does this mean they may not also release a High spec R, M5 mark II, M6 mark II, two lower Rs one along the lines of being between the 6DMII(I) and 7DMII(l) apsc (7D which is not full frame) as well as apsc version of some the between soon to be 90D and 7DMII(I) and what ever DSLRs the bring out? Is the two Full Frame cameras or ASP-C?


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## crashpc (Oct 18, 2018)

Will that be last round for DSLRs? I would think so. Or at least for some lines...
EOS R with 6DII sensor? Well, more Sony gear "flowing" into my camera stash...


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## ethanz (Oct 18, 2018)

Regarding the four DSLRs, would they be
7D mark 3
5DSR mark 2
90D
T8i

Looking at the time lines that would be about right.


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## slclick (Oct 18, 2018)

JonSnow said:


> yeah
> i guess canon thinks people are stupid enough to fall for FF no matter what.
> looking at the features from the X-T3 ...
> 
> ...




OK, where do I start? Oh, with the "Who buys..." Well, if you have philosophy that your glass and body purchase prices must be congruent in pricing, you have issues building a system of more than a few lenses and very few focal lengths at that.


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## Famateur (Oct 18, 2018)

JonSnow said:


> who buys a 2000+ euro lens for a 1600-1700 euro camera?



Well, I did. Put L-series EF lenses on my 70D instead of EF-S, knowing that I would eventually upgrade the camera body in the future...



JonSnow said:


> and who buys EF lenses when he only has an RF mount camera?



Anyone who likes the idea of a polarizing or ND filter in the adapter. Example: EF 11-24MM L on an EOS R body. If that lens was also available in RF mount, you'd need to use a big clunky filter attachment to clear the bulbous front element. With EF lenses and filter adapter, you can go from lens to lens quickly without ever messing with the filter...


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## Famateur (Oct 18, 2018)

CarlMillerPhoto said:


> A body lower than the R first?! The R didn't exactly sellout. Every place I looked had stock after filling preorders.



Selling out only indicates the relationship of orders that were received versus units supplied. Nikon could ship 100 units and say it "sold out" while Canon could ship 10,000 units and not "sell out." Neither scenario provides insight into popularity. You need actual order numbers for that.

In other words, it's just as easy to interpret selling out as an indicator of inadequate production capacity or even artificially low shipments.


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## Famateur (Oct 18, 2018)

CarlMillerPhoto said:


> What we really need is a pro-level body.



Well, that might be what _you _need. Keep in mind that the Rebel series is what brings home the cash for Canon, allowing for development and production of the comparatively high-spec, low-volume professional sales. I doubt the majority of 1DXII shooters are wringing their hands for a mirrorless equivalent (sure, there are probably some).

It used to be that compact point-and-shoot cameras were the bread-and-butter for Canon, but smartphones have dried that up, for the most part. Powershot G series, EOS M and Rebel DSLRs have to fill that role now.

When low-spec, low-price cameras are released, instead of poo-pooing them, we should expect that Canon is working to maintain the revenue of its largest market segment so that Canon can create offerings for those who can afford higher-end gear...


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## JonSnow (Oct 18, 2018)

LDS said:


> Why not? An L lens on an 80D will deliver better photos than a cheap lens on an 1DX most of the times.



yeah well how many shooter will buy a 28-70 f2 for a 6D like camera?
is it not more likely that people who have the money and lust to buy such a lens buy a camera to match?
there are always exceptions.. but overall.

i started with a 550 euro camera and bought 1500 euro glass a year later.
i knew i will stick to photography as a hobby and lenses are more important than camera bodys.

today i own a 5D Mk4 but most lenses i own cost under 2000 euro.

but in these price regions with lenses like the 50mm f1.2 and 28-70mm f2 i think it is a bit different.
they are big, expensive... they don´t offer me enough "photographic value" to buy them. that might be different for a fulltime pro.
but i doubt such a pro will be happy with an EOS R(educed).



> Put L-series EF lenses on my 70D instead of EF-S,



i don´t see many 80D owner run around with an EF 50mm f1.2 or 85mm f1.4. 

maybe i am wrong but my guess is people who go for a cheap body (a reduced EOS R) will not be happy with 2000-3000 euro lens lineup...




> Anyone who likes the idea of a polarizing or ND filter in the adapter. Example: EF 11-24MM L on an EOS R body. If that lens was also available in RF mount, you'd need to use a big clunky filter attachment to clear the bulbous front element. With EF lenses and filter adapter, you can go from lens to lens quickly without every messing with the filter...



well in one of my first messages here i wrote that is one reason the RF mount looks interesting.
because of the filter adapter for my TS-E 17mm.... but i am not buying an EOS R or even lower speced camera just for that.
i am waiting for a higher end model.

there will be people who buy the EOS R because they want some of the features it offers (and they have no other choice except switching brands) but that does not mean they are entirely happy with the EOS R.

i would like a mirrorless 5D MK4 (or beter 5Ds R).. but the EOS R is not that.


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## navastronia (Oct 18, 2018)

Famateur said:


> Well, that might be what _you _need. Keep in mind that the Rebel series is what brings home the cash for Canon, allowing for development and production of the comparatively high-spec, low-volume professional sales. I doubt the majority of 1DXII shooters are wringing their hands for a mirrorless equivalent (sure, there are probably some).



Sure, and there have to be others (like me) who've been shooting on Rebel and 7D-class cameras for the last few years, patiently waiting to make the jump to a pro body. What's held me back from buying a pro DSLR, as well as finally shooting FF, is the prospect of a pro Canon mirrorless.

Will 2019 yield a true 5DIV successor? I hope so. I'm certainly already salivating.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Oct 18, 2018)

ethanz said:


> Wow, lots of cameras coming in 2019.
> How much lower than the EOS R can you make a full frame camera?




In my opinion, price could be a lot lower. Gone is the complex mirror, exposure, AF, pentaprism which cost $$$ to manufacture, to assemble, and to maintain. Its all done by the processor now, at little or no change in cost. Canon could make a $1200 or $1400 price point easily. They will want to hit competition hard, because there are a ton of buyers who buy from big box stores and decide based on brand name and price. For that matter, they could sell the R for a lot less but they match the competition price for now.


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## criscokkat (Oct 18, 2018)

ethanz said:


> Regarding the four DSLRs, would they be
> 7D mark 3
> 5DSR mark 2
> 90D
> ...



The 5DS Mark 2 would be an ideal camera as the more expensive RF mount body. You don't have to worry about fast throughput on most of the subjects you would should with a regular 5ds. 

I'd slot in an SL level camera as the 4th one if any. I wouldn't be surprised if no new Full Frame DSLR's came out. If one did, I'd guess it would just be a 5dV as the last mirror slapper in the line. The RF mount 1d would come out 2020, and possibly a 6dII equivalent with faster throughput to be an equivalent sports shooter to the 7dII.


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## tmroper (Oct 18, 2018)

JonSnow said:


> who buys a 2000+ euro lens for a 1600-1700 euro camera?



Sony A7III owners, for sure.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Oct 18, 2018)

A further pricing comment. Creating a affordable pro level mirrorless is a daunting challenge with current technology. Faster sensor readouts, faster processors, bigger batteries, more heat to dissipate, so many things need to be resolved to bring one to market and make a profit. I think that all these things now have solutions, the cost is the big issue, and Canon does not include a feature unless it pays for itself, they wring every penny out of a design. So I expect a $4,000 camera with pro level features that has a big profit margin as required to pay for the R&D. If a ton of them sell, price will drop once R&D is paid off, and the competition starts pulling sales away.


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## criscokkat (Oct 18, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> In my opinion, price could be a lot lower. Gone is the complex mirror, exposure, AF, pentaprism which cost $$$ to manufacture, to assemble, and to maintain. Its all done by the processor now, at little or no change in cost. Canon could make a $1200 or $1400 price point easily. They will want to hit competition hard, because there are a ton of buyers who buy from big box stores and decide based on brand name and price. For that matter, they could sell the R for a lot less but they match the competition price for now.


...except you added a very expensive viewfinder and more cpu/electronics/ram to do everything you need to do with no mirror. Prisms were not super cheap, but not nearly as much as the electronics can be. And now all of this has to be placed in a smaller body with tighter clearances.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Oct 18, 2018)

tmroper said:


> Sony A7III owners, for sure.


The old adage saying that a camera is just a box to hang lenses on is still true to some extent. A lens gives you the most bang for your dollar. A good lens can last thru a lifetime of camera bodies, and is what makes or breaks the IQ of a photo.

As far as the content and market value of a photo, the photographer is still 90+ % of the equation. Content is still king.


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## Famateur (Oct 18, 2018)

The big question, to me, is what the rumor source means by "professional."

Canon very strictly refers only to its 1-series bodies and L lenses as "professional". If Canon calls it professional, then it will most likely be a 1-series. If someone else is calling it professional -- but Canon isn't -- then it's probably 5D series (or similar) camera.


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## tron (Oct 18, 2018)

amorse said:


> That is an interesting rumour.
> 
> I guess I had it in my mind that they would gradually mirror their DSLR offerings in the mirrorless realm (pun intended). When the R was released at the 6D II price point but with a 5D IV sensor, I was really at a loss as to where it fit in the lineup, but eventually landed on I feeling that price was the best indicator of what Canon thought of the offering. If a camera is released below the R, then I just don't know where that would fit - that could be a new lowest price point for full frame in the Canon realm, unless it isn't full frame.
> 
> ...


Except EOS R does not have a 5DMkIV sensor but a worse one:

https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?threads/so-the-banding-is-back.35892/


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## Famateur (Oct 18, 2018)

navastronia said:


> Sure, and there have to be others (like me) who've been shooting on Rebel and 7D-class cameras for the last few years, patiently waiting to make the jump to a pro body. What's held me back from buying a pro DSLR, as well as finally shooting FF, is the prospect of a pro Canon mirrorless.
> 
> Will 2019 yield a true 5DIV successor? I hope so. I'm certainly already salivating.



And _that _is something we have in common! 

I've been waiting for a full-frame body with articulating screen and at least 5DIV/80D generation sensor with equivalent FPS as my 70D.

We're just not as big a market segment as all the Rebel shooters who are happy as clams with their kit lenses...


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## Sharlin (Oct 18, 2018)

tron said:


> Except EOS R does not have a 5DMkIV sensor but a worse one:
> 
> https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?threads/so-the-banding-is-back.35892/



That's more likely either an artifact of the readout electronics which have to be somewhat different in a camera with 100% time live view, or caused by the sensor running hotter than in a DSLR due to that same 100% live view.


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## jolyonralph (Oct 18, 2018)

tron said:


> Except EOS R does not have a 5DMkIV sensor but a worse one:
> 
> https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?threads/so-the-banding-is-back.35892/



It's possibly just do to poor raw conversion.


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## Sharlin (Oct 18, 2018)

Seeing that the R somewhat straddles the traditional 5D and 6D lines, I wouldn't be entirely surprised if it remains a technology testbed like the original non-numbered M, and future R bodies include a "6R" and "5R" (or R6 and R5?) that correspond pretty well with the DSLR lines. I really don't see a Rebel-level full-frame R at this point, but I might be wrong. Anyway, if I had to guess, the lower-end R is likely to have:

A bit smaller, lighter, polycarbonate body
A single DIGIC
Crop 4K?
Somewhat reduced controls and customization
And the higher-end one:

The magnesium body of the R
Improved, 5D-level weather sealing
Dual processors
Full FPS with Servo AF
Full or slightly cropped 4K?
Perhaps reduced resolution to improve readout?
Return of a traditional joystick?
Several of the higher-end bulletpoints depend on Canon improving readout speeds quite a bit. 

At least one of the bodies will likely have a builtin GPS.


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## MartinF. (Oct 18, 2018)

[QUOTE=".... i rather have a great APS-C than a stripped down FF camera.
and what about lenses?
for a cheapish FF camera you need lenses to go with it.
who buys a 2000+ euro lens for a 1600-1700 euro camera?......[/QUOTE]

Actually I think that FF will be next race. APS-C is great when size of body and lenses matters. 
Being the happy owner of a 6D - an upgrade from a 400D, I almost got no better camera features, except for better ergonomics.
But damn - growing up with 35mm film SLR, and 35mm film compact cameras it was so great to be back with 35mm/FF sensor.
So I think there is a great marked for a entry level FF in a more compact body than a 6DmkII. An the term "less (features) is more" - could very well be a new trend as well.
But the of course we need some more (non-L) RF prime lenses to go with it, a 50mm f/1.8 or 1.4 and a 35mm f/2.0 for a start.

I would also guess that the High-End model will be a sports camera - but time will show.


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## BillB (Oct 18, 2018)

MartinF. said:


> [QUOTE=".... i rather have a great APS-C than a stripped down FF camera.
> and what about lenses?
> for a cheapish FF camera you need lenses to go with it.
> who buys a 2000+ euro lens for a 1600-1700 euro camera?......



Actually I think that FF will be next race. APS-C is great when size of body and lenses matters.
Being the happy owner of a 6D - an upgrade from a 400D, I almost got no better camera features, except for better ergonomics.
But damn - growing up with 35mm film SLR, and 35mm film compact cameras it was so great to be back with 35mm/FF sensor.
So I think there is a great marked for a entry level FF in a more compact body than a 6DmkII. An the term "less (features) is more" - could very well be a new trend as well.
But the of course we need some more (non-L) RF prime lenses to go with it, a 50mm f/1.8 or 1.4 and a 35mm f/2.0 for a start.

I would also guess that the High-End model will be a sports camera - but time will show.[/QUOTE]
How about an RF 35mm f1.8 IS with an adapter to handle an EF 50mm f1.8? You can get that now, or in a few weeks when the RF 35mm hits the shelves.


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## tron (Oct 18, 2018)

jolyonralph said:


> It's possibly just do to poor raw conversion.


It's not! The interesting this is that this is the case for the new Nikon Z mirrorless cameras. The Z7 sensor is behind the D850's sensor the same way! (DPReview)


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## snappy604 (Oct 18, 2018)

I'd love to own a higher end R... the existing one is close, but so far a miss for me. ... sadly I don't think my pocketbook could go beyond the R's cost at this time :-/ .. really hoping their 'firmware' update improves some things, but sadly I think some of the bottlenecks are in hardware.

While it doesn't interest me as much a lower end R probably would appeal to people getting into exchangable lens cameras for the first time.


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## HarrieR (Oct 18, 2018)

Please Lord, won't you make me a mirrorless lightweight ProASPC, to replace my heavy 7Dii's.


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## Romz26 (Oct 18, 2018)

what if the lower end one is to test out new tech? Canon doesnt put untested tech in their upper end cameras.

lower end will probably be 24mpx with something new added, either bsi or ibus. that way by the time it makes it to the more expensive models it will be gen 2 of what ever new comes into the lower end


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 18, 2018)

ethanz said:


> Wow, lots of cameras coming in 2019.
> How much lower than the EOS R can you make a full frame camera?



Lower in terms of cost?

Depends on how aggressive you are. They could price it like the first gen Sony A7 which are still sold new for less than 900 bucks, and take a bath as a loss leader. Likely? No.


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## Aussie shooter (Oct 18, 2018)

Actually. This makes a LOT of sense from a marketing standpoint IF there is no upgrade path from apsc to FF as there currently in with the line of DSLR's(ie the ability to buy a lower priced body, spend a few years putting the high quality lens collection together and then upgrading to FF. A cheaper EOSR would be set at a low enough price to attract the new hobbyist who wants a 'real' camera and who will then likely continue spending money down the line with Canon. I could see a 24mp sensor but lacking things like the eye AF, less AF points, no top LCD, only 1080p video, maybe a slightly smaller body with less buttons, maybe slightly less weather sealed etc. 1500bucks to get into FF would be very tempting for many.


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## djack41 (Oct 18, 2018)

Canon needs 2 bodies to match or exceed the A9 and A7R3, soon. With Canon, it is always next year. Meanwhile, the competition is raising the bar.


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## jolyonralph (Oct 18, 2018)

With the A7III being priced so aggressively I think what Canon will have to do is have a camera *and lens* bundle for around the same price.


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## Aussie shooter (Oct 18, 2018)

djack41 said:


> Canon needs 2 bodies to match or exceed the A9 and A7R3, soon. With Canon, it is always next year. Meanwhile, the competition is raising the bar.


That's what everyone always says but it simply isn't true. Few serious photographers would ever buy an A9 over a 1dx or d5. So canon will i troduce their 'flagship' model when it suits them. They have already outdone sony with the eos r for anyone that understands what they are getting. The mount alone makes a Sony second rate let alone the glass that canon has and will produce for the new system. I shouldn't need to mention ergonomics but obviously sonys are s#@t and canons are great. The other details make little difference unless you spend all you time watching youtube videos instead of taking photos.the only camera they are not currently matching is the A7r3 and that wont be far away.


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## Kit. (Oct 18, 2018)

ethanz said:


> How much lower than the EOS R can you make a full frame camera?


During the film era, Rebel was a full frame camera.


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## justinB (Oct 19, 2018)

I was planning on buying the current model for my headshot photography but was hesitant since this essentially a mirrorless 6D. If they're already going to put out a better, "professional" version I might as well keep shooting with my mkiii.


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## privatebydesign (Oct 19, 2018)

But it is true, I personally know several pro photographers who have sold Canon and Nikon kits and bought Sony, one internationally renowned tennis and golf pro just sold her 1DX MkII and 1DX and 5DSr for two A9's and an A7III. A very small sample size but it does happen.



Aussie shooter said:


> That's what everyone always says but it simply isn't true. Few serious photographers would ever buy an A9 over a 1dx or d5. So canon will i troduce their 'flagship' model when it suits them. They have already outdone sony with the eos r for anyone that understands what they are getting. The mount alone makes a Sony second rate let alone the glass that canon has and will produce for the new system. I shouldn't need to mention ergonomics but obviously sonys are s#@t and canons are great. The other details make little difference unless you spend all you time watching youtube videos instead of taking photos.the only camera they are not currently matching is the A7r3 and that wont be far away.


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## Aussie shooter (Oct 19, 2018)

privatebydesign said:


> But it is true, I personally know several pro photographers who have sold Canon and Nikon kits and bought Sony, one internationally renowned tennis and golf pro just sold her 1DX MkII and 1DX and 5DSr for two A9's and an A7III. A very small sample size but it does happen.


Yes it does happen. But i did say 'few'. And i stand by that. I can understand some women especially doing so due to the lighter weight and for small hands, somewhat better handling but for most that isn't the case. And giving up the reliability and pro support is not something most would be willing to do.


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## privatebydesign (Oct 19, 2018)

Aussie shooter said:


> Yes it does happen. But i did say 'few'. And i stand by that. I can understand some women especially doing so due to the lighter weight and for small hands, somewhat better handling but for most that isn't the case. And giving up the reliability and pro support is not something most would be willing to do.


It wasn’t for the size or weight, she loved her 1 series and used them for years. It was the 20 FPS and true silent shooting, two features very important for her work that Canon can’t come close to in a pro sports camera.


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## dak723 (Oct 19, 2018)

privatebydesign said:


> But it is true, I personally know several pro photographers who have sold Canon and Nikon kits and bought Sony, one internationally renowned tennis and golf pro just sold her 1DX MkII and 1DX and 5DSr for two A9's and an A7III. A very small sample size but it does happen.



The question for me - which I have asked many times on forums - is why do forum dwellers care if people switch brands, or which brand is the top seller? Doesn't everyone buy the camera (and system) that best suits their needs? Why would anyone care if Sony sells twice as many cameras as Canon - as long as Canon continues to do well enough to offer us new cameras and lenses? 

People have different wants and needs - something many forum dwellers seem to be unable to recognize. And each brand has their own strengths and weaknesses, so every time someone says something like, "Canon can't match Sony..." it just shows their own personal bias and little or nothing about the different camera brands. For me, color is the most important factor. So I would never consider a Sony. For others, FPS or AF speed is crucial. Shooting mostly landscapes, those specs are totally of no consequence to me. Some shoot high-end 4K video, others, like me, are perfectly happy with HD. So some folks, if they can afford it, will change brands. Who cares?


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## Chris_BC (Oct 19, 2018)

criscokkat said:


> The 5DS Mark 2 would be an ideal camera as the more expensive RF mount body. You don't have to worry about fast throughput on most of the subjects you would should with a regular 5ds.
> 
> I'd slot in an SL level camera as the 4th one if any. I wouldn't be surprised if no new Full Frame DSLR's came out. If one did, I'd guess it would just be a 5dV as the last mirror slapper in the line. The RF mount 1d would come out 2020, and possibly a 6dII equivalent with faster throughput to be an equivalent sports shooter to the 7dII.



NO, moving the 5DsR II to the gimmick/trend of mirrorless would NOT be ideal. As I said in the other thread, this would be a horrible idea, and would only benefit people with dainty hands and/or weak arms. You lose OVF, battery life, and a properly sized body for balanced use with large L series lenses.

As someone else noted, yes mirrorless can be made at a lower cost. Ultimately, the mirrorless trend/fad is about making cameras cheaper, and to a large extent smaller as a reaction to sales lost to smartphones. The former is a very bad sign for where future cameras may be headed quality wise, and the latter is an exercise in futility. 

Canon would be wise to continue both 1D and 5D cameras (all models) with mirrors, and to also continue with at least 2 APS-C cameras with mirrors. The 6D would be the best FF candidate to be discontinued, as it was already a compromise FF for people with smaller wallets. As such the lower pricing that should happen with lower level mirrorless will be appealing to many of them.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Oct 19, 2018)

tron said:


> Except EOS R does not have a 5DMkIV sensor but a worse one:
> 
> https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?threads/so-the-banding-is-back.35892/



I find the sensor to be equal or even better. You can force banding by using the silent shutter under pulsating light, or you can underexpose 5-1/2 stops and claim sensor issue when any photographer underexposing 5-1/2 stops has a big problem.


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## Chris_BC (Oct 19, 2018)

privatebydesign said:


> But it is true, I personally know several pro photographers who have sold Canon and Nikon kits and bought Sony, one internationally renowned tennis and golf pro just sold her 1DX MkII and 1DX and 5DSr for two A9's and an A7III. A very small sample size but it does happen.



You personally know several pros who switched?? Really??? And just how are these pros dealing with Sony's horrid reliability issues, and lack of service anywhere near what Canon provides?? Do they have a half dozen of them on hand for when they break?

You mention one of them being a woman, and women or very small men with dainty hands are the only people I could see using one of the Sonys. I handled one once and it was like a toy camera. The Sonys may be capable of taking decent pictures, but they're a joke handling wise and other wise. I could just see carrying around my 11-24 L using only the camera grip in my right hand (no strap for me) like I do with my 5DsR for landscape pictures. 

I've followed various Sony products over the past 40 plus years (and owned a couple), and it's pretty much always the same story. An interesting (or simply gimmick) feature or two, a higher price than similar products from other companies, often some sort of limiting factor to offset the novel feature(s), and in general very poor reliability.


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## Pooshoes (Oct 19, 2018)

justinB said:


> I was planning on buying the current model for my headshot photography but was hesitant since this essentially a mirrorless 6D. If they're already going to put out a better, "professional" version I might as well keep shooting with my mkiii.


It’s more like a Mirrorless 5d Mark IV without dual card slots. I own both the 5D IV and the eos R. Keeping the Eos R.


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## Talys (Oct 19, 2018)

For the lower end version I would like a no 4k (no video would be fine too) version for $500 less 

But to be fair, and to further differentiate the product, Canon can take out the high tech whiz bang touch bar too  

For a higher end model, a subflagship 7-8fps model would be great in continuous autofocus, but without subject tracking. I would love a joystick instead of a touch bar, and an extra programmable dial on the back would rock. As great as low Ev dpaf sounds, please please make a way for AF illuminators to work. I would happily pay $3000 USD for that. 

And then, of course, a flagship model, but frankly, I probably won't be in the market for it.


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## navastronia (Oct 19, 2018)

privatebydesign said:


> It wasn’t for the size or weight, she loved her 1 series and used them for years. It was the 20 FPS and true silent shooting, two features very important for her work that Canon can’t come close to in a pro sports camera.



I would kill for a Canon that shot silently as fast (20 fps) and with as quick a CMOS readout (1/160) as the a9


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## Aussie shooter (Oct 19, 2018)

privatebydesign said:


> It wasn’t for the size or weight, she loved her 1 series and used them for years. It was the 20 FPS and true silent shooting, two features very important for her work that Canon can’t come close to in a pro sports camera.



Fair enough. If you want to dig through that many photos to retrieve a tiny percentage more keepers than a 1dx by all means. And the true silent still has rolling shutter etc does it not? Also if she is shooting tennis she is less likely to have to worry about weather sealing. Like i said. Few photographers would change due to the cons being more substantial than the pros but for those few i hope it works for them.


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## Aussie shooter (Oct 19, 2018)

navastronia said:


> I would kill for a Canon that shot silently as fast (20 fps) and with as quick a CMOS readout (1/160) as the a9


I would hate it. It's bad enough having to sort through 1000 shots taken a 10fps. I wouldn't want to go through 2000 to pick the 5 or 10 that i would use. Obviously for a working pro it is a different matter but i wouldn't use 20fps even if my camera had it. 15 max.


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## koenkooi (Oct 19, 2018)

Aussie shooter said:


> [..]And the true silent still has rolling shutter etc does it not? [..]


 The a9 specifically tries to minimize rolling shutting with the fast sensor readout. Imaging resource has a technical write up on it.
.


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## Ozarker (Oct 19, 2018)

LDS said:


> Why not? An L lens on an 80D will deliver better photos than a cheap lens on an 1DX most of the times.


Yup. I had 3 L lenses when I was shooting with my 70D. Why? IQ and speed. I'd like to see EF-s or non-L EF lenses in similar focal lengths that can match the 135 f/2L, 24-70 f/2.8L II, or the 70-200 f/2.8L IS II. So, I think there might be a few people who consider the glass more important than the body. I had a bunch of EF-S and non-L EF lenses. They were just too slow for what I wanted to do. It's no fun trying to shoot a football game at night when f/5.6 is the best the lens will do at 250mm. Not to mention the f stop changing every time the focal length changes.


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## degos (Oct 19, 2018)

Chris_BC said:


> NO, moving the 5DsR II to the gimmick/trend of mirrorless would NOT be ideal. As I said in the other thread, this would be a horrible idea, and would only benefit people with dainty hands and/or weak arms.



Why would an RF 5DS2 be any smaller than the mirror-slapper model?



> Ultimately, the mirrorless trend/fad is about making cameras cheaper, and to a large extent smaller as a reaction to sales lost to smartphones.



No, it's about moving away from delicate, failure-prone and vibration-inducing mechanical components. That may have the advantage of allowing retail price or size to be reduced where that is relevant, but primarily it's about improving MTBF and reducing development, production and warranty costs.


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## tron (Oct 19, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I find the sensor to be equal or even better. You can force banding by using the silent shutter under pulsating light, or you can underexpose 5-1/2 stops and claim sensor issue when any photographer underexposing 5-1/2 stops has a big problem.


Tests show it a little worse. But this is not the point. I like my 5DIV sensor very much (so obviously I do not underexpose - at least not that much) but the mirrorless lovers are also the SONY lovers who were accusing Canon not having enough DR. How can now like EOS R and forget their ideology ?


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## scyrene (Oct 19, 2018)

Chris_BC said:


> You mention one of them being a woman, and women or very small men with dainty hands are the only people I could see using one of the Sonys.



Can we stop with this, please? "You must be weak if you want smaller cameras" is puerile and "women are more likely to want mirrorless cameras because they're weak/have smaller hands" is outright sexist. Women are quite capable of handling and using cameras of any size just as well as men, and someone with smaller hands can use bigger cameras with no trouble. The size differences between cameras are exaggerated in these discussions anyway. You don't like these cameras, fine! Stop making crass and irrelevant insinuations about people who do.


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## scyrene (Oct 19, 2018)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> In my opinion, price could be a lot lower. Gone is the complex mirror [and] pentaprism which cost $$$ to manufacture, to assemble, and to maintain..





degos said:


> No, it's about moving away from delicate, failure-prone and vibration-inducing mechanical components. That may have the advantage of allowing retail price or size to be reduced where that is relevant, but primarily it's about improving MTBF and reducing development, production and warranty costs.



A few people have brought up the issues of cost here. But once again a lot of unproven assumptions are being made. Do we know that EVFs cost less than the mirror/pentaprism? Do we know that mechanical parts fail more than electronic ones? Do we know mirrorless cameras cost less to produce overall than DSLRs? I've seen no evidence but a lot of assertions.


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## memoriaphoto (Oct 19, 2018)

Proscribo said:


> No top lcd, no twin dials, no touch bar (not saying it should even be included ever again), lower-end EVF, smaller battery, less customization... for 999€. Needs f/3.5-5.6 kit zoom to go with it too.
> Edit. wait did I just describe FF M50?



And no card slot at all. Transfer to smartphone only


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## dak723 (Oct 19, 2018)

scyrene said:


> Can we stop with this, please? "You must be weak if you want smaller cameras" is puerile and "women are more likely to want mirrorless cameras because they're weak/have smaller hands" is outright sexist. Women are quite capable of handling and using cameras of any size just as well as men, and someone with smaller hands can use bigger cameras with no trouble. The size differences between cameras are exaggerated in these discussions anyway. You don't like these cameras, fine! Stop making crass and irrelevant insinuations about people who do.



Thank you!

And not to mention that the "R" is neither small or light. But people believe what they want to support their argument. 
I owned the 6D and the EF 24-105 L = 1425 grams combined.
The new R with RF 24-105 L = 1360 grams.

R is slightly smaller and very slightly lighter. Probably not enough to even notice the difference.

Both mirrorless and DSLRs have different strengths and weaknesses. They do not compete with one another - they are just two slightly different types of cameras.


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## thom_sch (Oct 19, 2018)

For the lower end "R" I wish a different (better) sensor as the 6DII ... But it seems not to come true -> K433 
https://www.canonrumors.com/breaking-down-the-latest-canon-gear-to-appear-for-certification/


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## BillB (Oct 19, 2018)

scyrene said:


> A few people have brought up the issues of cost here. But once again a lot of unproven assumptions are being made. Do we know that EVFs cost less than the mirror/pentaprism? Do we know that mechanical parts fail more than electronic ones? Do we know mirrorless cameras cost less to produce overall than DSLRs? I've seen no evidence but a lot of assertions.


Anyway, at this point in the development of Canon mirrorless, covering front end development costs is a far bigger factor than any differences in per camera production costs and that will be true for quite a while.


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## BillB (Oct 19, 2018)

thom_sch said:


> For the lower end "R" I wish a different (better) sensor as the 6DII ... But it seems not to come true -> K433
> https://www.canonrumors.com/breaking-down-the-latest-canon-gear-to-appear-for-certification/


Not sure how you get a 6DII sensor out of the source you posted. Source says that it doesn't think there will be a mirrorless with a 6DII sensor.


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## Avenger 2.0 (Oct 19, 2018)

memoriaphoto said:


> And no card slot at all. Transfer to smartphone only


And no LCD, viewfinder or any buttons, only view and trigger from smartphone


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## BeenThere (Oct 19, 2018)

tmc784 said:


> at least four new DSLR bodies are expected in 2019.
> Is that what they said ?


Sounds unusual, but if true 

Rebel type
90D
7D3
5Dsr2


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## BeenThere (Oct 19, 2018)

dak723 said:


> The question for me - which I have asked many times on forums - is why do forum dwellers care if people switch brands, or which brand is the top seller? Doesn't everyone buy the camera (and system) that best suits their needs? Why would anyone care if Sony sells twice as many cameras as Canon - as long as Canon continues to do well enough to offer us new cameras and lenses?
> 
> People have different wants and needs - something many forum dwellers seem to be unable to recognize. And each brand has their own strengths and weaknesses, so every time someone says something like, "Canon can't match Sony..." it just shows their own personal bias and little or nothing about the different camera brands. For me, color is the most important factor. So I would never consider a Sony. For others, FPS or AF speed is crucial. Shooting mostly landscapes, those specs are totally of no consequence to me. Some shoot high-end 4K video, others, like me, are perfectly happy with HD. So some folks, if they can afford it, will change brands. Who cares?


Mine is better than yours syndrome.


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## snoke (Oct 19, 2018)

privatebydesign said:


> It wasn’t for the size or weight, she loved her 1 series and used them for years. It was the 20 FPS and true silent shooting, two features very important for her work that Canon can’t come close to in a pro sports camera.



You forget no mirror blackout.


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## criscokkat (Oct 19, 2018)

snoke said:


> You forget no mirror blackout.



Not that I'll be able to afford a setup like this anytime soon, but this is the type of article that makes me drool about the future of mirrorless:

I am hoping for a Full Frame 7d like camera around 10fps with good autofocus in the next few years, when I am ready to make the step up with my next body purchase. The specs on the top end eventually do trickle down to the prosumer. The a7III has been mighty tempting to someone in my position.If some disaster struck my equipment (fire/flood/robbery/etc) and I had to start over again I'd be in the Sony camp.


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## KrisK (Oct 19, 2018)

JonSnow said:


> yeah
> i guess canon thinks people are stupid enough to fall for FF no matter what.
> looking at the features from the X-T3 ...
> ....



If Fuji would update their older, faster primes, I'd consider buying back into the system. (That's the only reason I left.)

Even then, I'd be stuck with Fuji's closed ecosystem of very expensive lenses...all the moreso when you toss in those wide apertures, which in FF are cheap and frequently not too much larger.


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## Chris_BC (Oct 19, 2018)

scyrene said:


> Can we stop with this, please? "You must be weak if you want smaller cameras" is puerile and "women are more likely to want mirrorless cameras because they're weak/have smaller hands" is outright sexist. Women are quite capable of handling and using cameras of any size just as well as men, and someone with smaller hands can use bigger cameras with no trouble. The size differences between cameras are exaggerated in these discussions anyway. You don't like these cameras, fine! Stop making crass and irrelevant insinuations about people who do.



1. Actually, it is 100% factually accurate that men have larger hands and stronger upper bodies than women. There are exceptions of course, and there is a reason an episode of Seinfeld featured a woman with "man hands". If your definition of "not sexist" means pretending men and women are the same, I can't help you. I can tell you that any claims of "ist" this or that are signs of a weak argument.

2. I did not use the phrase "You must be weak if...".

3. The Sony I looked at, an A7R model, was tiny. Period. The new Canon R is larger and thus makes more sense for use with larger lenses, but still does not offer the handling of Canon's 5D or 1D models when using L lenses. There is nothing crass or irrelevant in pointing out how the size of a tool impacts the use of that tool, and whether a subset of users of that tool may choose a less than optimum form factor due to their physical limitations.


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## navastronia (Oct 19, 2018)

Chris_BC said:


> 1. Actually, it is 100% factually accurate that men have larger hands and stronger upper bodies than women. There are exceptions of course, and there is a reason an episode of Seinfeld featured a woman with "man hands". If your definition of "not sexist" means pretending men and women are the same, I can't help you. I can tell you that any claims of "ist" this or that are signs of a weak argument.
> 
> 2. I did not use the phrase "You must be weak if...".
> 
> 3. The Sony I looked at, an A7R model, was tiny. Period. The new Canon R is larger and thus makes more sense for use with larger lenses, but still does not offer the handling of Canon's 5D or 1D models when using L lenses. There is nothing crass or irrelevant in pointing out how the size of a tool impacts the use of that tool, and whether a subset of users of that tool may choose a less than optimum form factor due to their physical limitations.





Chris_BC said:


> NO, moving the 5DsR II to the gimmick/trend of mirrorless would NOT be ideal. As I said in the other thread, this would be a horrible idea, and would only benefit people with dainty hands and/or weak arms.



Bruh, read what you wrote. You came into this thread like a freight train - are you surprised that people are asking you to tone it down? Sure, on average, women have less upper body strength than men, but it's really not relevant to the subject, nor is telling people that mirrorless is a "gimmick," or that mirrorless only benefits people with "dainty hands." If you want people to take what you're saying seriously, consider writing more moderately. I think most of us are here to nerd out over this new speculation and less for the spicy posts


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## Chris_BC (Oct 19, 2018)

degos said:


> Why would an RF 5DS2 be any smaller than the mirror-slapper model?
> 
> 
> 
> No, it's about moving away from delicate, failure-prone and vibration-inducing mechanical components. That may have the advantage of allowing retail price or size to be reduced where that is relevant, but primarily it's about improving MTBF and reducing development, production and warranty costs.




What size is the EOS R compared to the current 5D models? The Sonys are even smaller. Do you expect a mirrorless 5D replacement to keep the same size? Based on the R, I doubt it. If the same size is kept, then my comments about size would not apply.

I've had at least 6 different Canon models over the past 15 years and have never had an issue with the shutter. Of course if I were using them for many years without upgrading or using them more frequently this could be an issue. Do you have data suggesting that the live view display is more reliable over time and with heavy use? Which is more costly to repair?

Has the mirror induced vibration been quantified with the 5DsR, for example? I do take a tripod with me frequently and I use the mirror lockup when I do (So no vibration problem there.), but I also shoot the 5DsR hand held and get very sharp shots. I would suggest that the mirror/no mirror vibration difference is more than overcome by other factors when hand holding, and when on a tripod it can be removed entirely. (Of course you can also use the mirror lockup when hand holding if you doubt this, and the 5DsR has several different delay settings up to 2 seconds.)


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## Chris_BC (Oct 19, 2018)

navastronia said:


> Bruh, read what you wrote. You came into this thread like a freight train - are you surprised that people are asking you to tone it down? Sure, on average, women have less upper body strength than men, but it's really not relevant to the subject, nor is telling people that mirrorless is a "gimmick," or that mirrorless only benefits people with "dainty hands." If you want people to take what you're saying seriously, consider writing more moderately. I think most of us are here to nerd out over this new speculation and less for the spicy posts



Actually, I'm not surprised at all. Canon Rumors threads can be contentious, and I'm fully aware of my very blunt communication style. I'm merely refuting the over the top reply. 

It's interesting that "scyrene", who took issue with my other comments, points out that the assumed cost and reliability benefits of mirrorless are unproven. Here I agree with him/her. If those benefits are not there, all the more reason to label mirrorless as a gimmick.


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## tmroper (Oct 19, 2018)

Chris_BC said:


> As I said in the other thread, this would be a horrible idea, and would only benefit people with dainty hands and/or weak arms.



Phones today are too small and people go around dropping them all the time because they're too hard to hold onto. A good old Motorola DynaTac 8000X would be much better (like the very manly Gordon Gekko used in "Wall Street"). But it's just not what people want. Seems like cameras are following the same human desire for smaller and lighter.


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## tron (Oct 19, 2018)

tmroper said:


> Phones today are too small and people go around dropping them all the time because they're too hard to hold onto. A good old Motorola DynaTac 8000X would be much better (like the very manly Gordon Gekko used in "Wall Street"). But it's just not what people want. Seems like cameras are following the same human desire for smaller and lighter.


Actually the phones are bigger to much bigger than what they used to be in the previous decade. And way heavier! Two of my phones were the Nokia 6100 and the Nokia E52. Small and very light. Maybe the mentioning of the phones was not a good example.


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## tron (Oct 19, 2018)

Closer to the topic: I use the silent mode when using handheld the EOS 5DsR. I do not know if it helps or not but I have not observed mirror issues. There were cases where I had put the speed to 1/160 when using the 400mm DO IS II lens to shoot a still bird in a dark area and the result was very sharp. Of course IS helped a lot but if there were mirror shake issues the photo would be ruined.


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## mirage (Oct 19, 2018)

i really hope Canon drops a mirrorfree 6D-class entry-level "EOS R-ebel" model as "first ever digital camera with FF sensor priced at USD/€ 999 ... and nukes Sony and Nikon with it. plus a compact, decent IQ, inexpensive RF 24-85/3.5-5.6 IS STM as kit zoom.

they'd sell a lot of them. 

to save cost and achieve the desired marketing differentiation (nerfing), they could make it with useless 4k video, no mics, no headphone jack, no IBIS, only single card slot. ooops, stop - that would be too close to EOS R specs. nerf some more!


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 19, 2018)

mirage said:


> i really hope Canon [sells] a mirrorfree 6D-class entry-level "EOS R-ebel" model as "first ever digital camera with FF sensor priced at USD/€ 999



Do I hear $897?


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## RGF (Oct 20, 2018)

Wonder what Canon is planning for the high-end. Go with 1Dx M3 and R version 2019? Rumor is Nikon will introduce D6 next year. Could mirrorless versions be far behind? 

Also for the 7DM3 and 5DS - will Canon go route (lots of extra work) or go mirrorless only?


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## RGF (Oct 20, 2018)

3kramd5 said:


> Do I hear $897?



how about $495?


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## mirage (Oct 20, 2018)

my guess is:
* 1DX-III as DSLR (Cano cant get fps+AF tracking done in mirrorfree yet) and it is for an especially conservative user niche
* EOS "R5" hi-rez model with 50+ MP, no 5DS/R II DSLRs
* EOS "R6" as entry model, no 6D III 
* 7D III as DSLR; conservative birder/wildlife user group and Canon not likely to bring crop-sensored EOS R models any time soon. no more 7D IV though. 

now let's see what we get


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## mirage (Oct 20, 2018)

999 MSRP price @launch, not street price for 2 generations outdated and outclassed model.


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## sfeinsmith (Oct 20, 2018)

In speaking the truth, I know Canon very well based their past history. 
Canon will phase out all EF lenses because they want to start with RF lenses to make a real windfall profitable. They did in 1989 when Canon phased out FD/FDn lenses very quickly and forced photographers to use EF lenses with higher prices. Now, RF lenses are more expensive. It is a good time to protest against Canon for their unprofessional and greedy behavior. Do not buy Canon R series and any RF lenses then they will clean up their business behavior by customers.


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## dak723 (Oct 20, 2018)

sfeinsmith said:


> In speaking the truth, I know Canon very well based their past history.
> Canon will phase out all EF lenses because they want to start with RF lenses to make a real windfall profitable. They did in 1989 when Canon phased out FD/FDn lenses very quickly and forced photographers to use EF lenses with higher prices. Now, RF lenses are more expensive. It is a good time to protest against Canon for their unprofessional and greedy behavior. Do not buy Canon R series and any RF lenses then they will clean up their business behavior by customers.



The change from FD to EF was a major change going from manual focus to AF. This time around, not only is Canon continuing to make EF lenses, but they work perfectly with the new R cameras. Not only that, but Canon has made 3 (not just one) adapter so that your EF lenses actually GAIN in usability. 3 of 4 lenses released for the "R" series are top of the line professional lenses that are not particularly high priced based on their level of performance.

If you don't like Canon, fine - don't buy their products. But don't make up false and unsubstantiated claims against them.


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## dak723 (Oct 20, 2018)

3kramd5 said:


> Do I hear $897?



You get what you pay for!


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## BeenThere (Oct 20, 2018)

dak723 said:


> You get what you pay for!


Getting what you pay for is the best you can hope for.


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 20, 2018)

dak723 said:


> You get what you pay for!



In this case you get a not nearly world class camera, but one which meets the criteria of fullframe sensor and mirror free, and costs less than the threshold price, in a diminutive package no less


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## kaptainkatsu (Oct 20, 2018)

Aussie shooter said:


> That's what everyone always says but it simply isn't true. Few serious photographers would ever buy an A9 over a 1dx or d5. So canon will i troduce their 'flagship' model when it suits them. They have already outdone sony with the eos r for anyone that understands what they are getting. The mount alone makes a Sony second rate let alone the glass that canon has and will produce for the new system. I shouldn't need to mention ergonomics but obviously sonys are s#@t and canons are great. The other details make little difference unless you spend all you time watching youtube videos instead of taking photos.the only camera they are not currently matching is the A7r3 and that wont be far away.



THIS. Me being a 1DX2 owner, I would hesitate to buy a first gen R-DX (or whatever they're gonna call it). the 1DX2 is a HUGE body but when you have the big whites on it or even just a 70-200, it feels right. I wouldn't really want a smaller body.


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## kaptainkatsu (Oct 20, 2018)

Aussie shooter said:


> I would hate it. It's bad enough having to sort through 1000 shots taken a 10fps. I wouldn't want to go through 2000 to pick the 5 or 10 that i would use. Obviously for a working pro it is a different matter but i wouldn't use 20fps even if my camera had it. 15 max.


I actually slow down my max FPS on my 1DX2 depending on what I'm shooting. at 14fps, you blow through a lot of frames which just become a pain to sort


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## RGF (Oct 20, 2018)

mirage said:


> my guess is:
> * 1DX-III as DSLR (Cano cant get fps+AF tracking done in mirrorfree yet) and it is for an especially conservative user niche
> * EOS "R5" hi-rez model with 50+ MP, no 5DS/R II DSLRs
> * EOS "R6" as entry model, no 6D III
> ...



The 1Dx M2 has live view which I believes will AF/Track at 16 FPS. Though agree that 1Dx M group will be cautious. especially since the body will be over $6,000. Though Canon may be introduce a something between 5D and 1Dx to test the waters and get people use to ML.


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## RGF (Oct 20, 2018)

dak723 said:


> The change from FD to EF was a major change going from manual focus to AF. This time around, not only is Canon continuing to make EF lenses, but they work perfectly with the new R cameras. Not only that, but Canon has made 3 (not just one) adapter so that your EF lenses actually GAIN in usability. 3 of 4 lenses released for the "R" series are top of the line professional lenses that are not particularly high priced based on their level of performance.
> 
> If you don't like Canon, fine - don't buy their products. But don't make up false and unsubstantiated claims against them.



DAK723 - you are a bit harsh but agree with you. The changed from FD to EF was a complete change that was required for AF. I think the change to ML will be slower and less dramatic.


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## Talys (Oct 20, 2018)

3kramd5 said:


> In this case you get a not nearly world class camera, but one which meets the criteria of fullframe sensor and mirror free, and costs less than the threshold price, in a diminutive package no less


Actually... In this case you get a camera a few generations old that never sold  which, I suppose, is getting what you paid for hehe


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## TAF (Oct 20, 2018)

FF gives you better low light capability. So an even cheaper FF R series would be salable for use in fixed point surveillance, such as automated speed cameras and traffic light cameras. That is a fairly large market worldwide, with respectably high replacement rate (both the environment and the 'victims' are tough on the hardware).

Let us also not forget high end hobbiest drones. The R is lighter than a comparable SLR.

There are other uses for this stuff beyond conventional photography/videography.

And it all makes Canon money.

Which is a good thing for us.


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## mirage (Oct 21, 2018)

3kramd5 said:


> In this case you get a not nearly world class camera, but one which meets the criteria of fullframe sensor and mirror free, and costs less than the threshold price, in a diminutive package no less



yes, Sony Alpha 7 (1st gen) is a good demonstration that FF goodness does not necessarily require large cameras.

With current tech/functionality and some critical improvements - especially better power pack (twice the charge at only 20% more bulk is possible), really good UI - it is a very desirable size for many potential buyers, especially all those who never will use it with huge lenses. Actually i'd prefer a form factor without hump on top, but rather a pop-up EVF (as implemented on a few Sony models, eg RX1R II). i am after FF with max. portability/ minimal bulk during transport.


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## Mancubus (Oct 21, 2018)

Give me a R 5D whatever with no AA filter and 2 card slots under $3500 while keeping the same advantages of the first R and I'll be happy.


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## Adelino (Oct 21, 2018)

I'm one of the very very few people here, who would be happy with an entry level camera, for multiple reasons. However, I do wonder how it would be lower end? Build quality yeah, Rebel class I suppose. But the FPS and other things I would certainly not want lower than the R... so I wonder what it would go.


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## Talys (Oct 21, 2018)

Adelino said:


> I'm one of the very very few people here, who would be happy with an entry level camera, for multiple reasons. However, I do wonder how it would be lower end? Build quality yeah, Rebel class I suppose. But the FPS and other things I would certainly not want lower than the R... so I wonder what it would go.


They could M50 the R... no DPAF 4k 

The R does have a bunch of AF features that aren't available on lower end cameras, and that aren't must-haves for general-type photography so that could go, too. And, it could be a little lower megapixel. Basically, a true 6DII conversion to R, with lip service to 4k video. I think for $500 less, it could be a winner.


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## mirage (Oct 21, 2018)

Talys said:


> Basically, a true 6DII conversion to R, with lip service to 4k video. I think for $500 less, it could be a wi



that's exactly what i expect. EOS "R6", 24MP standard DP-AF sensor, nerfed-down pseudo-4k, USD/€ 1500.

if it comes in a smaller form factor than EOS R, but without sacrificing LP-E6N power pack, I am interested. 

and if it comes at € 999 i'll pre-order.


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## mirage (Oct 22, 2018)

Proscribo said:


> No top lcd, no twin dials, no touch bar (not saying it should even be included ever again), lower-end EVF, smaller battery, less customization... for 999€. Needs f/3.5-5.6 kit zoom to go with it too.
> Edit. wait did I just describe FF M50?



Exactly. I'd pre-order a FF-sensored "R50". Ideally with no video capture at all. i never use top-LCd (what for on camera ms with EVF and fully articulated main display?). i would not miss the really-wrong M-fn slider bar. 

and i'd love to get a small, decent IQ, non-L, inexpensive RF 24-85/4.0 IS STM kit lens.


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## tron (Oct 22, 2018)

mirage said:


> nipplegate @CR ... oO
> 
> spam problem seems to get worse during last few weeks.


Maybe that guy read so much BS in the EOS R related threads that he though one more post can't do any harm


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## BillB (Oct 22, 2018)

mirage said:


> that's exactly what i expect. EOS "R6", 24MP standard DP-AF sensor, nerfed-down pseudo-4k, USD/€ 1500.
> 
> if it comes in a smaller form factor than EOS R, but without sacrificing LP-E6N power pack, I am interested.
> 
> and if it comes at € 999 i'll pre-order.


If they really want to cheap out, they could get rid of the articulated screen too. They would have to keep at least some of the touch screen capability because it is a key part of the control system.


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## mirage (Oct 22, 2018)

nope, fully articulated screen is a prerequisite. Otherwise I won't buy.


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## tron (Oct 22, 2018)

There are more things to get rid of: Like the EVF! OK this is not a good idea but they could get rid of the sensor ... oh wait they can't 

Sorry I could not stop myself for saying the above 

P.S.Maybe the RF mount? 
P.S2 Sorry again!


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## Rocky (Oct 25, 2018)

Put a R mount and a FF sensor in the M50. You have your entry level R


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## Michael Clark (Oct 25, 2018)

Stuart said:


> I want FF because its better in low light and has better DOF opportunities. I'm happy with cheaper lenses, even EF adapted lenses. So YES PLEASE - a FF below the EOS R.
> I want Mirrorless for silent shooting and potentially faster fps and and wider/faster lenses.
> 
> And i can still desire the latest L lenses - e.g. 28-70 F2



Unless you are happy with no change in focus between frames, you're not going to get frame rates faster than the 7D Mark II anytime soon in an R body, certainly not a low end one.


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## Michael Clark (Oct 25, 2018)

RGF said:


> The 1Dx M2 has live view which I believes will AF/Track at 16 FPS. Though agree that 1Dx M group will be cautious. especially since the body will be over $6,000. Though Canon may be introduce a something between 5D and 1Dx to test the waters and get people use to ML.



The 1D X Mark II does not track subjects at 16 fps. The initial focus distance of the first frame is maintained for the entire burst. If you want to track the subject, you must use the viewfinder and max out at 14 fps.

The big issue with tracking moving subjects at even 14 fps with an ML camera is that the sensor has to do dual duty: take the picture *and* track the subject. With a mirror slapper, you have dedicated sensors for each, which takes the pressure off the slower readout capability of Canon's sensors.


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## Refurb7 (Oct 25, 2018)

A new EOS R camera slotted below the R makes a lot of sense. Remove a few features from the current R and price it like a 6D or 6DII. It would be a new lower cost full frame, providing easier access to the new system, as well as access to the whole EF system.


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## Refurb7 (Oct 25, 2018)

jolyonralph said:


> If they do a lower than the R I'd expect them to release a non-L kit lens too. Maybe a 24-105 STM or possibly a slower 24-70 or 28-70.


Yes, or maybe a 24-85 or a 28-105 like they used to make for the EOS system. Those were good starter lenses.


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## Refurb7 (Oct 25, 2018)

sfeinsmith said:


> In speaking the truth, I know Canon very well based their past history.
> Canon will phase out all EF lenses because they want to start with RF lenses to make a real windfall profitable. They did in 1989 when Canon phased out FD/FDn lenses very quickly and forced photographers to use EF lenses with higher prices. Now, RF lenses are more expensive. It is a good time to protest against Canon for their unprofessional and greedy behavior. Do not buy Canon R series and any RF lenses then they will clean up their business behavior by customers.


What are you talking about? Professionals make money. Making more money by way of new and improved products is highly professional. They are in a competitive marketplace where you make money or you disappear. Greed has nothing to do with it.


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## RGF (Oct 25, 2018)

Michael Clark said:


> The 1D X Mark II does not track subjects at 16 fps. The initial focus distance of the first frame is maintained for the entire burst. If you want to track the subject, you must use the viewfinder and max out at 14 fps.
> 
> The big issue with tracking moving subjects at even 14 fps with an ML camera is that the sensor has to do dual duty: take the picture *and* track the subject. With a mirror slapper, you have dedicated sensors for each, which takes the pressure off the slower readout capability of Canon's sensors.



I have noticed that tracking at high FPS is difficult. Perhaps the camera of the future needs two sensors - one to capture the image and the other track the subject. Not sure how it would work - just a wild idea


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## Hector1970 (Oct 26, 2018)

I think in general having a cheap crappy model drives users to spending extra and buying the mid range one which is the most profitable version.
You also tend to have a really expensive model that's hard to justify buying to make the mid range one look like the best bang for your buck.
Canon anyway will be trying to drive EOS-R lens.
There will be alot of news ones in the future covering the existing EF ranges like 70-200, 100mm macro, 300/400/500/600 etc
I'd expect they'll be similar quality lens adjusted for EOS-R with better coatings and maybe with a bit of weight shaved off.

Besides the odd unicorn I'd don't think we'll see much new innovative EF lens (unless they are already far down the track).
EF will go the way of FD but it will take a while ( I think they will remain desirable especially if they drop in price second hand as they work easily with EOS-R and the quality of some of them will not ever be surpassed by much)


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## BillB (Oct 26, 2018)

Hector1970 said:


> I think in general having a cheap crappy model drives users to spending extra and buying the mid range one which is the most profitable version.
> You also tend to have a really expensive model that's hard to justify buying to make the mid range one look like the best bang for your buck.
> Canon anyway will be trying to drive EOS-R lens.
> There will be alot of news ones in the future covering the existing EF ranges like 70-200, 100mm macro, 300/400/500/600 etc
> ...


You can use an EF lens on an R camera, but you can't use an R lens on an EF camera. The market for EF lenses will be people with EF cameras and people with R cameras who think that a specific EF lens is a better bang for the buck than the equivalent RF lens or because there is no equivalent RF lens.


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## dak723 (Oct 27, 2018)

BillB said:


> You can use an EF lens on an R camera, but you can't use an R lens on an EF camera. The market for EF lenses will be people with EF cameras and people with R cameras who think that a specific EF lens is a better bang for the buck than the equivalent RF lens or because there is no equivalent RF lens.



I am looking forward to buying an R camera - either the one just released or perhaps the rumored slightly lower end model. At the moment - and perhaps for years to come - the R lenses are, and will be, way too expensive for me. I have already bought a used EF 24-105 non-L lens in anticipation of getting the R. I will be looking closely at other non-L EF lenses. So, long live EF!


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## bokehmon22 (Oct 27, 2018)

What is coming first in Feb 2019? Higher end or lower end model?


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## djack41 (Oct 28, 2018)

Aussie shooter said:


> That's what everyone always says but it simply isn't true. Few serious photographers would ever buy an A9 over a 1dx or d5. So canon will i troduce their 'flagship' model when it suits them. They have already outdone sony with the eos r for anyone that understands what they are getting. The mount alone makes a Sony second rate let alone the glass that canon has and will produce for the new system. I shouldn't need to mention ergonomics but obviously sonys are s#@t and canons are great. The other details make little difference unless you spend all you time watching youtube videos instead of taking photos.the only camera they are not currently matching is the A7r3 and that wont be far away.


Sony now has the largest market share in the full frame market.....not just mirrorless but also DSLRs. But surely "no serious " photographers are making the switch to Sony. Canon needs to move quickly.


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## c.d.embrey (Oct 29, 2018)

I'd like to see a *NO-Frills FF-R*, Something minimalist using Leica M10 design principles. I don't need/want IBIS, Auto Focus, Video or High Frame Rate. A built-in flash, for fill, would be good. A Canon adapter to use LTM lenses from Canon/Leica rangefinder cameras would be great. While I'm dreaming, how about a choice of either a 28mm f/2.0 or 43mm f/2.0 non-IS Kit Prime.


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## dak723 (Oct 30, 2018)

djack41 said:


> Sony now has the largest market share in the full frame market.....not just mirrorless but also DSLRs. But surely "no serious " photographers are making the switch to Sony. Canon needs to move quickly.



Canon needs to move quickly...or what?

Does the fact that Sony sells more FF cameras impact you in any way?

Just wondering....


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## ffxx (Oct 30, 2018)

BillB said:


> You can use an EF lens on an R camera, but you can't use an R lens on an EF camera. The market for EF lenses will be people with EF cameras and people with R cameras who think that a specific EF lens is a better bang for the buck than the equivalent RF lens or because there is no equivalent RF lens.



Actually a lot of other cameras use EF mount and this will make it alive for a while at least. RED, EVA1, UMP, JVC, etc


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## Joules (Oct 30, 2018)

RGF said:


> I have noticed that tracking at high FPS is difficult. Perhaps the camera of the future needs two sensors - one to capture the image and the other track the subject. Not sure how it would work - just a wild idea


We already have two sensors just as you describe - An imagaing sensor and autofocus sensor, and a mirror to switch between them. The system of the future


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## RGF (Oct 30, 2018)

Joules said:


> We already have two sensors just as you describe - An imagaing sensor and autofocus sensor, and a mirror to switch between them. The system of the future



Back to the future


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## dak723 (Oct 31, 2018)

Joules said:


> We already have two sensors just as you describe - An imagaing sensor and autofocus sensor, and a mirror to switch between them. The system of the future



Which is why the DSLR is not dead, nor even dying.


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## Jimworld (Nov 9, 2018)

Anyone thinking Canon will be releasing a full frame mirror-less camera below the new R is delusional. Canon has spent a lot of money on R&D on their new lenses and they only work on a prosumer camera. These new lenses range from $1100.00 to $3K. No one is buying them to put on their Rebel. Canon will be releasing two hi-end FF mirror-less camera early 2019. There is a good chance those announcement will come out at WPPI in Las Vegas.


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## padam (Nov 9, 2018)

bokehmon22 said:


> What is coming first in Feb 2019? Higher end or lower end model?


This was the last rumour about it:
https://www.canonrumors.com/two-canon-eos-r-series-bodies-coming-in-2019-cr2/

Probably the 26MP lower end, since the 'Pro' one hasn't appeared yet in upcoming model names and it will probably use a different body, while the entry-level one will use the same body (but probably lower-res screen and EVF).


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## padam (Nov 9, 2018)

Jimworld said:


> Anyone thinking Canon will be releasing a full frame mirror-less camera below the new R is delusional. Canon has spent a lot of money on R&D on their new lenses and they only work on a prosumer camera. These new lenses range from $1100.00 to $3K. No one is buying them to put on their Rebel. Canon will be releasing two hi-end FF mirror-less camera early 2019. There is a good chance those announcement will come out at WPPI in Las Vegas.


I think that there are plenty of people putting L glass on a 6D Mark II (which they can still do here, using EF adapters will be common in the first years), so the argument is not valid. The D600/6D class has been very important ever since it has been established, and it's coming a bit lower down still.


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## 3kramd5 (Nov 9, 2018)

Jimworld said:


> Anyone thinking Canon will be releasing a full frame mirror-less camera below the new R is delusional. Canon has spent a lot of money on R&D on their new lenses and they only work on a prosumer camera. These new lenses range from $1100.00 to $3K. No one is buying them to put on their Rebel. Canon will be releasing two hi-end FF mirror-less camera early 2019. There is a good chance those announcement will come out at WPPI in Las Vegas.



A common mantra in photography is to spend money on lenses, not bodies. Maybe the “tech” industry has shifted that a bit, but I don’t buy your notion that no one will put an expensive lens on an inexpensive body.

Also, what do you mean by “they only work on a prosumer camera”?


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## ethanz (Nov 9, 2018)

3kramd5 said:


> A common mantra in photography is to spend money on lenses, not bodies. Maybe the “tech” industry has shifted that a bit, but I don’t buy your notion that no one will put an expensive lens on an inexpensive body.



I had my 24-70L f/2.8 II and 70-200L f/2.8 IS II on my old Rebel T2i.


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## 3kramd5 (Nov 10, 2018)

ethanz said:


> I had my 24-70L f/2.8 II and 70-200L f/2.8 IS II on my old Rebel T2i.


I used to use a 300/2.8L on a 350D


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## Rocky (Nov 18, 2018)

WE need more new RF lens than new R body. As it is now, we only have 35mm, 50mm, 24-105 mm in RF.


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## Aussie shooter (Nov 18, 2018)

Rocky said:


> WE need more new RF lens than new R body. As it is now, we only have 35mm, 50mm, 24-105 mm in RF.



Don't forget the 28-70. But don't fret. Canon will have blown away the competitors in a few short years when it comes to the lens selection for FF mirrorless.


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## edoorn (Nov 18, 2018)

as rumoured, 2.8 zoom lenses will come in 2019. If they add some light 1.8 primes along the 35 as well we have a good start.

I've worked with the R for a full week of wildlife shooting and am convinced of the strength of the system, but also realised the weak points (mainly speed of readout/fps and some interface choices that need to be made). Would be very interested in a high end pro version.


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## Chadowe (Jan 17, 2019)

Jimworld said:


> Anyone thinking Canon will be releasing a full frame mirror-less camera below the new R is delusional. Canon has spent a lot of money on R&D on their new lenses and they only work on a prosumer camera. These new lenses range from $1100.00 to $3K. No one is buying them to put on their Rebel. Canon will be releasing two hi-end FF mirror-less camera early 2019. There is a good chance those announcement will come out at WPPI in Las Vegas.



Canon doesn't show as an exhibitor for WPPI 2019


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## Jimworld (Jan 17, 2019)

Chadowe said:


> Canon doesn't show as an exhibitor for WPPI 2019


That's pretty funny. they were there last year along with Nikon, Sony & Fuji. and this year booth 121, the exact same booth they were in last year, is marked as reserved. gee, I wonder who is going to exhibit in the largest 50x90 booth at the show. Canon shows up to all of these shows.


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## Jimworld (Jan 17, 2019)

3kramd5 said:


> A common mantra in photography is to spend money on lenses, not bodies. Maybe the “tech” industry has shifted that a bit, but I don’t buy your notion that no one will put an expensive lens on an inexpensive body.
> 
> Also, what do you mean by “they only work on a prosumer camera”?


Yes, that is true, but the new lenses do not work on any of the older bodies. you can use your old lenses on the new R bodies via an adapter, but not the other way around. So yes, Canon is going to be pushing out some high end cameras and they will be out soon along with more R mount lenses


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## Jimworld (Jan 17, 2019)

padam said:


> I think that there are plenty of people putting L glass on a 6D Mark II (which they can still do here, using EF adapters will be common in the first years), so the argument is not valid. The D600/6D class has been very important ever since it has been established, and it's coming a bit lower down still.


Yes, but there are no adapters to mount R lenses on EF mount cameras.


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## jschoonj (Jan 18, 2019)

Jimworld said:


> Anyone thinking Canon will be releasing a full frame mirror-less camera below the new R is delusional. Canon has spent a lot of money on R&D on their new lenses and they only work on a prosumer camera. These new lenses range from $1100.00 to $3K. No one is buying them to put on their Rebel. Canon will be releasing two hi-end FF mirror-less camera early 2019. There is a good chance those announcement will come out at WPPI in Las Vegas.



This is straight from the Imaging Resource interview with the head of products from Canon:

"On the other hand, we recognized that a lot of amateur customers are very interested in stepping up to full-frame through customer feedback. This was a pleasant surprise.

We are developing multiple EOS R cameras now but due to varying levels of preferred features we are likely to launch an amateur model next to let a large group of customers step up and enjoy full-frame image quality. Have no doubt that a professional model is coming, but perhaps it may not be the next model we introduce."

source: https://www.imaging-resource.com/ne...anon-going-with-the-eos-r-do-they-have-a-plan

That sounds like they're working on a model below the R to me.


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## nonac (Jan 20, 2019)

I know that I won't be upgrading any bodies or lenses for the next year or two until I have a clear vision of where Canon is headed.


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## YuengLinger (Jan 21, 2019)

nonac said:


> I know that I won't be upgrading any bodies or lenses for the next year or two until I have a clear vision of where Canon is headed.


My sarcasm detector is still not working.


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## Ozarker (Jan 21, 2019)

Jimworld said:


> Yes, but there are no adapters to mount R lenses on EF mount cameras.


That isn't his point. His point is that Canon might well release an inexpensive R body one day and people will buy expensive RF or L glass for it. I bought L glass when I had a T5i and 70D. Glass is where the magic is. If somebody wants to scrimp anywhere, the body is where it should begin. BTW: There will never be RF to EF adapters.


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## slclick (Jan 22, 2019)

I scrimp by shooting with what I have!


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## Jethro (Jan 22, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> That isn't his point. His point is that Canon might well release an inexpensive R body one day and people will buy expensive RF or L glass for it. I bought L glass when I had a T5i and 70D. Glass is where the magic is. If somebody wants to scrimp anywhere, the body is where it should begin. BTW: There will never be RF to EF adapters.


Or just as likely they will release multiple non-L RF glass with the new 'amateur' EOS R. There will have to be at least an entry level kit zoom, and I'd expect one or two more at the same time.


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## Ozarker (Jan 22, 2019)

Jethro said:


> Or just as likely they will release multiple non-L RF glass with the new 'amateur' EOS R. There will have to be at least an entry level kit zoom, and I'd expect one or two more at the same time.


I agree.


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## M_S (Feb 7, 2019)

Stumbled upon this article: https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2013/09/there-is-no-free-lunch-episode-763-lens-adapters/

This doesn't seem good for adapted L glass on R body when it comes to picture quality... Makes me worried a bit...


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