# Friend's 17 TS dropped in the city canal



## niels123 (Dec 20, 2015)

Yesterday, one of my friend's accidently released his 17 TS and dropped it straight into the water. I have scuba license + full scuba gear, so I will go there to try to get it back. Would it still be repairable?


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## tpatana (Dec 20, 2015)

Not likely, but I'm sure it'd be interesting to see how much water is inside so please go get it.


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## niels123 (Dec 20, 2015)

tpatana said:


> Not likely, but I'm sure it'd be interesting to see how much water is inside so please go get it.



Took me half an hour with the visibility about the same as milk ;D

I got it ;D ;D ;D ;D It was at a depth of about 2.5 meters

Picturs will follow soon!


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## 9VIII (Dec 20, 2015)

Nice job!
Depending on the location I would expect it to just get lost in mud.

The biggest problem I can think of is just how dirty it's going to be. At the very least it's going to need a full disassembly to clean each element.


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## niels123 (Dec 20, 2015)

9VIII said:


> Nice job!
> Depending on the location I would expect it to just get lost in mud.
> 
> The biggest problem I can think of is just how dirty it's going to be. At the very least it's going to need a full disassembly to clean each element.



De rear element is missing, there is some cosmetic damage on the side en there is a tiny tiny crack in the barrel on the side

Second, it's complete flooded en full of dirt. The front element looks still shiny ;D


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## danski0224 (Dec 20, 2015)

Ouch, that was an expen$ive lesson.

The rear element isn't missing, it is recessed that far into the lens body. So, there is a little bit of good news. 

Repairable? Probably not an economically viable option. Canon would most likely refuse to repair it. The aperture assembly would certainly need to be replaced. At least the AF motor isn't trashed ;D

As an experiment with an already totaled lens, I'd get some distilled water and rinse it out thoroughly before the river water dries out inside and leaves deposits. Then maybe dunk it into lab grade rubbing alcohol. I wouldn't expect it to be salvageable.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 20, 2015)

Unfortunately, I highly doubt Canon would repair it.


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## privatebydesign (Dec 20, 2015)

Canon won't touch water damage as there is no way they will warranty any slow to become apparent side effects, like corrosion.

The only hope of repair is an independent repair place, they will be able to strip and clean it. The nice thing is it had no power to it so the aperture actuator could still be fixable, do not, under any circumstances, put it on a camera to see of it works as this would almost certainly kill the aperture mechanism at power on. 

I'd think there is a better than even chance of getting it fixed, but not by Canon.

It seems counter intuitive but put it in a container of clean water until you get it to the repiarers, this will slow any corrosion and stop the muck sticking to the insides.

P.S. I worked on dive boats for years and have a lot of experience of drowned cameras!


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## Orangutan (Dec 20, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> Canon won't touch water damage as there is no way they will warranty any slow to become apparent side effects, like corrosion.



I find that very surprising. I could understand for a non-L lens, but L-series should be built to accommodate repair. At worst, they could clean-up the optical components and remount them in a refurb-quality housing and call it a repair. Not cheap, but entirely feasible.

I hope niels123 will tell us what Canon says.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 20, 2015)

Canon, as do almost every camera and electronics manufacturer will not repair water damaged electronics, cameras, or lenses. Apple has gone so far as to place a indicator inside their iphone that turns color if it gets wet. 

A independent repair shop might consider repairing it, but in the condition you described, its likely going to cost more than the lens is worth. You can sell it for parts and someone will buy it and clean it up, repair it, and then resell it to some unsuspecting buyer on ebay. If it ever needs service(very likely), they may find that Canon won't touch it.

Your friend should contact his insurance company about a claim. He may have to send it to Canon to get a estimate or statement that it is not repairable. Drops and spills insurance can sometimes pay off.


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## Khufu (Dec 20, 2015)

"I've got this... friend who..."
Yeah, right 

Regarding the water damage indicators, this is a standard thing on phones, from Sony to Apple to all the unbranded, cheap things... It's a simple colour-change sticker that lets manufacturers and third party insurance/warranty seellers know if items are waterdamaged. If you have a phone that lets you, pop the battery out, I guarantee there's a teeny, white sticker on the battery!... and I dare you to sit a droplet of water on it for five minutes to see what happens


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## Orangutan (Dec 20, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Canon, as do almost every camera and electronics manufacturer will not repair water damaged electronics, cameras, or lenses.



I'll trust your experience on this, but I still find it bizarre: supposedly, the bulk of the money is in grinding the glass precisely, and the remainder should be a replaceable shell. The shape of the glass will not be affected even by full immersion, so long as it's dealt with promptly. If it's not true that glass is the most expensive part of the finished product, then high-quality lenses are seriously overpriced.


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## niels123 (Dec 20, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > Canon won't touch water damage as there is no way they will warranty any slow to become apparent side effects, like corrosion.
> ...



I will post updates here


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## RGF (Dec 20, 2015)

Sorry for you friend.

Tough lesson - does he have all risk insurance? May be worth it in the future. Costs me roughly $1.50/100 p.a. Cost to insure the 17 TS would be around $15 a year.


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## danski0224 (Dec 20, 2015)

Khufu said:


> Regarding the water damage indicators, this is a standard thing on phones, from Sony to Apple to all the unbranded, cheap things... It's a simple colour-change sticker that lets manufacturers and third party insurance/warranty seellers know if items are waterdamaged. If you have a phone that lets you, pop the battery out, I guarantee there's a teeny, white sticker on the battery!... and I dare you to sit a droplet of water on it for five minutes to see what happens



Sometimes, you don't even need an actual drop of water. Simply putting the phone in your pocket could be enough to change the color if you sweat enough.


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## tpatana (Dec 20, 2015)

niels123 said:


> tpatana said:
> 
> 
> > Not likely, but I'm sure it'd be interesting to see how much water is inside so please go get it.
> ...



Luckily it wasn't deeper than that. I remember my dive cert, the vis was <2 meters. No fun, you easily lost your partner if you blinked.


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## niels123 (Dec 20, 2015)

tpatana said:


> niels123 said:
> 
> 
> > tpatana said:
> ...



There is a freshwater lake nearby which is said to be 30 meters deep. The interesting part is in the top 2 meters, but just for fun we wanted to see how deep we could get. At about 8 meters there is a halocline (a freshwater layer on top of more dense salty water). *All* the dirt collects where the two layers meet. I have never ever seen such bad visibility. My partner and me were constantly holding hands and trying to get any deeper because even spotting the bottom or even seeing your meters was a complete nightmare. We gave up, but managed to get to 11 meters.

There is plenty of lakes in which I am quite happy with two (!) meters of visibility. Average visibility for the above lake is about 50 cm and it can be truly nice to do shallow dives there and spot all the life (mostly eels and lobsters).


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## rfdesigner (Dec 20, 2015)

niels123 said:


> Yesterday, one of my friend's accidently released his 17 TS and dropped it straight into the water. I have scuba license + full scuba gear, so I will go there to try to get it back. Would it still be repairable?



A thought...

Electronics usually die because currents and voltages appear where they shouldn't. i.e. a linear regulator stops regulating and puts out raw battery volts due to water shorting it's sense circuit, so everything downstream is fried, or you walk up to an unprotected circuit in your rubber soled trainers and pick up the board.. sending umpteen kV into the delicate electronics. .

As the lens wasn't powered (not attached to a camera) I'd be willing to bet a thorough clean out could recover the electronics side of things... but contamination on any part of it, including absorbed water in the PCB materials could now kill it if powered up, getting that water out would require cooking the electronics at say 105C for an extended period (It's what they do to chips before soldering if their vaccum sealed bag turns out to have failed).. the only thing to watch is things like connectors that might not like such a temperature, alternatively a vacuum chamber could be a good approach. I successfully (it survived) put my 28mmf1.8 through one to get rid of slight fogging.


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## TeT (Dec 20, 2015)

+1

Would be very curious to see results of the attempt...


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## retroreflection (Dec 20, 2015)

Manufacturers refuse to repair wet electronics because tons of experience shows that they keep failing afterwards, regardless of the care taken during the repair. Customers then become very angry, and might even start a miserably eternal thread on a website or two. It's like shadow boxing rattlesnakes, guaranteed to bite you. Auto insurance totals a submerged car without a technician ever looking at it, and does their best to get it shredded because of the safety implications of electronics failure in modern cars. The cost of the electronics relative to the glass has nothing to do with it. A lens that can't change aperture is just as worthless as one with a busted lens.
The minimal electronics in TSE's would tempt you to hope for an exception from Canon. Policies are policies, though. An independent repair facility that trusts you to accept no warranty might get it running. Be kind and let them know that you understand the risks.
Were those gouges made before this fall? It looks to me that it hit a rock on the way down. Might be more than just mud that needs fixing.
I do wonder though, why do rifle scope makers guarantee against internal fogging, and pass submerged torture tests, and camera lenses dont? They have external knobs adjusting internal components. Usually no electronics, though. The resistance on adjustments is much higher than in camera lenses. There might not be enough power to overcome the seal resistance during autofocus. Could be some opportunity in a fly by wire & all internal adjustment design. Does nothing for the body.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 21, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > Canon, as do almost every camera and electronics manufacturer will not repair water damaged electronics, cameras, or lenses.
> ...



All of the electronics, and any metal parts screws, motors, aperture, shell, etc are subject to corrosion. Obviously, some parts will not be damaged, and the glass will not likely be damaged. However. there will be dirt a sludge in the aperture and in every glass element, and taking those apart, replacing the electronics, aperture, and motor, will run up the bill. It costs a lot more to replace most of the parts in a lens and spend hours cleaning lens elements than a lens is worth. Customers also expect that the lens will be reliable and not fail after the repair. Unfortunately, failure is much more likely after water damage.

The factory has production line processes that do this efficiently, but not so for repair shops.

The lens may sell for a fair price just for the parts, but a reputable camera repair shop won't buy if the water damage is mentioned.


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## Perio (Dec 21, 2015)

I think I'd be a good idea if Canon could implement a security mechanism to prevent accidental releases... every time I was using my 85 1.2ii, I was hoping not to press the release button.


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## privatebydesign (Dec 21, 2015)

Perio said:


> I think I'd be a good idea if Canon could implement a security mechanism to prevent accidental releases... every time I was using my 85 1.2ii, I was hoping not to press the release button.



They have, it is called the lens release button!


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## TexPhoto (Dec 21, 2015)

Dry it, mount it, shoot. You have the worlds most expensive and exclusive dreamy soft focus lens and your'e thinking of a repair?


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## niels123 (Dec 21, 2015)

The local repaircenter said it is likely not repairable, but they will have a look at it first before they make hard conclusions.


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## kaihp (Dec 21, 2015)

niels123 said:


> There is a freshwater lake nearby which is said to be 30 meters deep.


That should be Furesøen, right?



niels123 said:


> The local repaircenter said it is likely not repairable, but they will have a look at it first before they make hard conclusions.



Sorry to hear this


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## niels123 (Dec 21, 2015)

kaihp said:


> niels123 said:
> 
> 
> > There is a freshwater lake nearby which is said to be 30 meters deep.
> ...



No, it's this lake: https://www.google.nl/maps/place/Piccardthofplas,+9728+Groningen/@53.18801,6.5372176,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x47c832eac40a60b5:0x2d9327dcc1e8fe0c?hl=en


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## kaihp (Dec 21, 2015)

niels123 said:


> No, it's this lake: https://www.google.nl/maps/place/Piccardthofplas,+9728+Groningen/@53.18801,6.5372176,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x47c832eac40a60b5:0x2d9327dcc1e8fe0c?hl=en



Oops, sorry. I thought you were in Denmark, not the Netherlands. My bad!


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## niels123 (Dec 21, 2015)

kaihp said:


> niels123 said:
> 
> 
> > No, it's this lake: https://www.google.nl/maps/place/Piccardthofplas,+9728+Groningen/@53.18801,6.5372176,17z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m2!3m1!1s0x47c832eac40a60b5:0x2d9327dcc1e8fe0c?hl=en
> ...



are you in Denmark?


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## NancyP (Dec 21, 2015)

The bad part about Canon lenses is that they don't have aperture rings. So if your lens electronics goes south, you can't just shrug and tape over the contacts and use the lens manual focus/ manual aperture. 

SK Grimes does a lot of lens repair for old and new large format and medium format lenses.


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## kaihp (Dec 21, 2015)

niels123 said:


> kaihp said:
> 
> 
> > Oops, sorry. I thought you were in Denmark, not the Netherlands. My bad!
> ...



Yup, just outside Copenhagen


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## niels123 (Dec 23, 2015)

The repairshop declared the lens total loss :'(


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 24, 2015)

niels123 said:


> The repairshop declared the lens total loss :'(



Even though its not practical to repair, there are lots of good parts on and in it that make it valuable. Have him sell it on eBay.


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## johnhenry (Jan 5, 2016)

Someone WOULD buy it for parts however.


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## AcutancePhotography (Jan 5, 2016)

What a sad story. 

Since the lens is a write off, you can always try disassembling it yourself at least you will learn what goes into that lens.


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## tcphoto (Jan 10, 2016)

Sorry to hear about the loss. At less than $400 a year, it just makes sense when you have nice gear and doing business.


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