# Worth picking up a 5DsR, or waiting?



## kirispupis (Sep 26, 2016)

Currently my main camera is a 1Dx2. I also own a 5d3 but I will be selling it soon as there's really no reason to use it over the 1Dx2 except as an occasional backup camera. For similar reasons I will not be buying a 5D4. The extra 10MP doesn't really justify it.

I really like the 1Dx2 and in particular I've found the extra dynamic range to be very useful. Sure, I've always been in the camp of getting the lighting right, but now that I do have the extra DR I've found it does help provide an extra 'pop' to photos.

I have no desire to replace my 1Dx2, but I would like to pair it with a body with more MP. The possibilities I've thought of include.
- a7r2. I've already ruled this out because when I need a backup camera, it's for wildlife. I need a camera that works well with my 200-400/1.4x. I also need a camera that works with my MP-E 65.
- Fuji MF. Thought I'd mention it in case someone brings it up. I find this intriguing, but I have no desire to carry yet another system of heavy lenses. 
- 5DsR. This hits all the buttons and I liked the crop mode - where I can basically use the camera as a lower fps 7d2.
- 5DsR II - basically wait for this to come out. My assumption is it will be a lot like the current camera, but with their latest sensor tech. Anything else they do to it is gravy. While I wait, for cases where I absolutely need a backup camera, I'll just rent something.

I'm stuck between the last two. While the 5DsR is intriguing, I do worry about the DR - especially on such a high MP body. Note that I am not worried about high ISO at all. I've owned a 7d2 in the past so I'm aware what its capabilities are. However, this camera will only live on a tripod. It will be only intended for specialist cases when I have some grand landscape scene that I may potentially print large. For any time the camera is off the tripod I will use the 1Dx2.

If a 5DsR existed with the latest Canon sensor technologies, I would buy it instantly. However I'm really stuck in deciding whether the current body is worth it.


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## Mikehit (Sep 26, 2016)

kirispupis said:


> Currently my main camera is a 1Dx2. I also own a 5d3 but I will be selling it soon as there's really no reason to use it over the 1Dx2 except as an occasional backup camera. For similar reasons I will not be buying a 5D4. The extra 10MP doesn't really justify it.
> 
> I really like the 1Dx2 and in particular I've found the extra dynamic range to be very useful. Sure, I've always been in the camp of getting the lighting right, but now that I do have the extra DR I've found it does help provide an extra 'pop' to photos.
> 
> ...



The two in bold seem to contradict each other.
What is it you are hoping to get from this second body?


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## kirispupis (Sep 26, 2016)

Mikehit said:


> kirispupis said:
> 
> 
> > Currently my main camera is a 1Dx2. I also own a 5d3 but I will be selling it soon as there's really no reason to use it over the 1Dx2 except as an occasional backup camera. For similar reasons I will not be buying a 5D4. The extra 10MP doesn't really justify it.
> ...



I have two uses for this body.
1) Serve as a high MP camera for landscapes. This is the most common case.
2) Serve as a backup camera when I need one. This is typically for wildlife - for example a safari, where I don't have the time to switch lenses. Another case is aerial photography. For wildlife I'll have a 200-400/1.4x on the 1Dx2, and a 70-200/2.8 II on the backup. For aerial I'll have the 70-200/2.8 II on my primary body and a 24-70/2.8 II on the backup.


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## Random Orbits (Sep 26, 2016)

How often are you going to end up in a situation where the 1-2 stops of low ISO DR will make or break a landscape shot when you can't bracket the shot?

Right now, the 5DS/R are less expensive than the 5D4, but if the 5DS/R II comes out, then those will be priced higher than the 5D4. Is it worth buying a backup camera at a higher price?

I've read many times to "Own the bodies and rent the lenses." and after renting bodies, I agree with that sentiment. It takes less time to configure/AFMA a rented lens on a couple bodies than on the many lenses you may use on a rented body. Plus all your custom functions will have already been set up, and that saves time too. Having a backup body available at all times is worth something. Having a high MP camera for your landscape work is worth something. Not having to switch lenses for wildlife and aerial photography is worth something. I'm figuring that all those "somethings" are worth the depreciation that the 5DS/R would undergo while you own and use it. Having 1-2 stops of low ISO DR might be significant in a few instances, but the images of the 5DS/R are still better than the 5D3. Would you still use the 5D3 for landscapes with its DR limitations if it was 50MP over the 1DXII with its lower MP count and superior DR? I'm guessing yes, so I suggest buying the 5DS/R now.


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## Danzig (Sep 26, 2016)

kirispupis said:


> Currently my main camera is a 1Dx2. I also own a 5d3 but I will be selling it soon as there's really no reason to use it over the 1Dx2 except as an occasional backup camera. For similar reasons I will not be buying a 5D4. The extra 10MP doesn't really justify it.
> 
> I really like the 1Dx2 and in particular I've found the extra dynamic range to be very useful. Sure, I've always been in the camp of getting the lighting right, but now that I do have the extra DR I've found it does help provide an extra 'pop' to photos.
> 
> ...


Your obviously slumming it with a 1d mkii2 and a 5dmkiii, just buy the 5dsr that you obviously want. Maybe you'll have to cut your latest safari a day short, but gawd damn...that's the price you gotta pay sometimes.


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## Mikehit (Sep 26, 2016)

Random Orbits said:


> How often are you going to end up in a situation where the 1-2 stops of low ISO DR will make or break a landscape shot when you can't bracket the shot?
> 
> Right now, the 5DS/R are less expensive than the 5D4, but if the 5DS/R II comes out, then those will be priced higher than the 5D4. Is it worth buying a backup camera at a higher price?
> 
> I've read many times to "Own the bodies and rent the lenses." and after renting bodies, I agree with that sentiment. It takes less time to configure/AFMA a rented lens on a couple bodies than on the many lenses you may use on a rented body. Plus all your custom functions will have already been set up, and that saves time too. Having a backup body available at all times is worth something. Having a high MP camera for your landscape work is worth something. Not having to switch lenses for wildlife and aerial photography is worth something. I'm figuring that all those "somethings" are worth the depreciation that the 5DS/R would undergo while you own and use it. Having 1-2 stops of low ISO DR might be significant in a few instances, but the images of the 5DS/R are still better than the 5D3. Would you still use the 5D3 for landscapes with its DR limitations if it was 50MP over the 1DXII with its lower MP count and superior DR? I'm guessing yes, so I suggest buying the 5DS/R now.



+1 with all of that.
The 5DSR will hold its price well - the Mkii will be significantly more expensive than the current version if the 5DIV is anything to go by and it will take time for the price of the second hand cameras to be impacted by the new model. So I say buy it now - you may decide the MkII (if it ever appears) it is not needed which means save a heap when the MkII comes out. And if you do decide to change look on the money you lose as a cheap rental (it undoubtedly will be).


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## unfocused (Sep 27, 2016)

If you've owned a 7DII, then you have a pretty good idea what the sensor is like in the 5DsR. Not quite the same, as the 5Ds series are not dual-pixel, but they are of the same generation in sensor technology. As Random Orbits said, the main advantage of the latest sensors is in base ISO dynamic range. If you are using a 1Dx II, then you are aware of the difference in dynamic range. Can you live with slightly less dynamic range at lower ISOs on a backup camera? 

I don't agree that the next generation of 5Ds series will be significantly more expensive. The 5D IV is no more expensive than the 5D III was at introduction. I would say it is likely that the 5Ds II will also be about the same price as the original upon introduction.

If living in the U.S. you can get a 5DsR for $3,000 refurbished. Waiting for a Canon refurbished sale may save you a little more. As it gets closer to being replaced, the price will likely drop some more, but I don't think you should count on the 5DsR being replaced before late 2017 or early 2018 at the earliest. Can you wait that long?

For wildlife, if you are distance limited and will have to crop, your 7DII might be a better bet (with better autofocus and faster frame rate and essentially the same resolution if cropping) than the 5DsR.

If you want extreme resolution and wall-sized prints of landscapes, then the 5DsR would be better. 

Ultimately, you have to decide.


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## RayValdez360 (Sep 27, 2016)

I like the images from my 5dsr more than my 5d mark IV. The images are crazy sharp and crisp and have have a more solid look than my mark iv so far.


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## Zeidora (Sep 27, 2016)

For landscapes and in a pinch all around camera, the 5DsR is a good way to go. I would not hold my breath for the 5DsR II. It is very similar to the 5D3, so transition will be quite fast, unlike to any of the other systems. If you shoot on tripod, you can easily use ND grads, and/or shoot exposure series and then do HDR. 

If you have 1Dx2 and think 5DsR, then a 5D4 will be a poor compromise.


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## kirispupis (Sep 27, 2016)

Thanks for the replies. I think if I was strictly looking at a backup camera, I would choose the 5d4. However, I'm more interested in the 5DsR for its high res capabilities. The camera needs to only be acceptable as a backup camera - that won't be its primary use.

Originally I was set to buy a 5DsR, but while on vacation recently I took a lot of photos on a flight to a remote part of Australia. My primary camera was the 1Dx2 with a 70-200/2.8 II, but I also had my 5D3 with a 24-70/2.8 II. When I got home I noticed that certain images from the flight were trickier to process than others. The lighting was fairly even, but there were shadows in the trees and detail in clouds that I was pulling. In some respect the differences were subtle, but they had an impact on the end image. I had to be far more careful with some images than others. Soon I realized that the few images I had troubles with were from the 5D3.

A lot of people dismiss DR as something that can be fixed with bracketing, but that isn't always the case. Aerial and action photography are two prime examples. I also find it extremely difficult to bracket with water scenes while still preserving the water the way I want it. Yes, I do bracket - even with the 1Dx2, but there are times when I cannot do it.

My temptation right now is to wait for the holiday sales and see if there's a good deal to be had on the 5DsR. I do think that with careful consideration it could be a useful tool. It would have to stay on a tripod and I would not use it for cases where DR could be a problem.


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## Cthulhu (Sep 28, 2016)

kirispupis said:


> Thanks for the replies. I think if I was strictly looking at a backup camera, I would choose the 5d4. However, I'm more interested in the 5DsR for its high res capabilities. The camera needs to only be acceptable as a backup camera - that won't be its primary use.
> 
> Originally I was set to buy a 5DsR, but while on vacation recently I took a lot of photos on a flight to a remote part of Australia. My primary camera was the 1Dx2 with a 70-200/2.8 II, but I also had my 5D3 with a 24-70/2.8 II. When I got home I noticed that certain images from the flight were trickier to process than others. The lighting was fairly even, but there were shadows in the trees and detail in clouds that I was pulling. In some respect the differences were subtle, but they had an impact on the end image. I had to be far more careful with some images than others. Soon I realized that the few images I had troubles with were from the 5D3.
> 
> ...



If you have trouble with shadows on the 5d3 you're going to have trouble with shadows on the 5dsr, the improvement is modest. The 5dsr isn't a great camera for moving subjects, but it'll work if you're very good at timing your shots. The insane mp count is what it really offers and is a feature I often miss. I loved it when I shot a 1dx, not so much now that I use a 1dx mk2. That said if I had the same wish list you have, the 5d mk IV ticks all the boxes and a 50% increase in detail from the 1dx mk2 is very noticeable while keeping the DR you're accustomed to.


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## Zeidora (Sep 28, 2016)

Re shadows, have you looked at different post-processing options? As far as I understand, not all noise reduction is done the same. I just pre-ordered Aurora HDR 2017 (to be released on the 29th), mainly as an HDR upgrade from Nik HDR pro, but will also be interested in seeing whether it makes a difference with single shot tone mapping. Just a thought ...


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## kirispupis (Sep 28, 2016)

So after going back and forth on this a bit, I wound up biting on a used 5DsR. KEH had a like-new one available for $2700 (with sale promo) and at that price if I hate the camera I can get rid of it at no loss.


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## Mikehit (Sep 28, 2016)

Congratulations. Let us know how it meets up with your expectations.


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## sanj (Oct 2, 2016)

Why do you need more megapixels for landscape? I do not understand that concept.

If I were in your shoes I would get another 1dx2 as second camera.


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## kirispupis (Oct 8, 2016)

In terms of the reason for more MP, I often print very large. A recent print of mine on acrylic was 60" x 40" and I have printed larger in the past. Therefore the extra detail is worth it.

I received my 5DsR and have had some time to play with it. I haven't had the opportunity yet to take a very serious photo - or one that I would actually print, but the following are my opinions so far. I will be keeping the camera.

- The extra MP of course are noticeable. Note that I intend to mostly use the camera on a tripod at ISO 100. The 5DsR captures a LOT more detail than the 1Dx2.
- Raising shadows and dynamic range suck as expected. Images on the 1Dx2 are far easier to play with. I can easily raise shadows by a few stops without harm, while images from the 5DsR quickly become yuck.
- The colors look richer out of the camera on the 5DsR. This isn't a huge deal since I typically do a lot of processing, but is interesting.
- Noise is noticeable. Even at ISO 100 I can see noise in some spots on images from the 5DsR. This is certainly not the case with the 1Dx2.
- I like the shutter release options on the 5DsR.
- I like that Canon made the camera very similar to the 5D3. The L-bracket works without issues and I was able to change all of the settings without reading the manual.
- Frustration that Canon decided to remove access to the shutter count. I used to be able to read counts with my Mac, but now you have to send the camera into service. I'm not sure what their motivation is, though I guess it helps me in the long wrong. I typically put a lot of shots on my cameras but I keep them in great condition.

Keep in mind this isn't an either/or comparison. I believe both cameras complement each other very well.


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## j-nord (Oct 19, 2016)

sanj said:


> Why do you need more megapixels for landscape? I do not understand that concept.
> 
> If I were in your shoes I would get another 1dx2 as second camera.


I don't understand how you don't understand the need for high m-pix for large prints. Is your argument going to be stitching? Stitching doesn't work well with fast changing light which is frequently the case for ideal landscape conditions (sunrise, sunset and/or storms/clouds/weather).


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## kirispupis (Nov 16, 2016)

In terms of more MP, it's simply a matter of printing with more details. A 60" x 40" image from a 50 MP camera will print at a higher DPI than one from a 20 MP camera.

That being said, I'm putting the 5DsR up for sale today. I'm just seeing too much noise from pushing images - even though I'm shooting everything on a tripod at ISO 100. Because this is not a problem on the 1Dx2, I'm seeing that images from that camera are coming out much cleaner and nicer.


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