# Fast firing units?



## TheJock (Jan 11, 2015)

I am just looking through my images from the 24 hour event at the weekend and I'm wondering if there is a flash unit that can keep up with the frame rate of a 70D?? 
Is the Nissin MG8000 a good choice? reason I'm asking is if it can fire on, lets say half power on high speed burst then my images should improve BIG time next year, any input is welcome and thanks in advance.


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## agierke (Jan 11, 2015)

Any flash you may get wont be able to keep up with your frame rate over an extended period of time. The best thing to do is to get an external battery pack to help maximize recycle rate of your flash. You run a big risk of overheating a flash though pushing it that hard for that long so beware.

For long events I bring 2-4 flashes and about 4 sets of 8 rechargeable batteries. This covers me in case I shoot heavy flash I can just swap out heads with fresh batteries and keep my recycle rate from lagging.

You could also try being more selective in shooting as to spare yourself running into a shortage of flash power. 

You didn't mention what you are shooting...indoor sports? Why the need for such intensive shooting? Just curious.


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## TheJock (Jan 11, 2015)

I'm just trying to think outside the box on how to achieve better shots from motorsports events at night, although I'd have the camera set for high speed, it would probably only be 4 or 5 shots at a time of certain cars that I know emit flames from their exhausts, I'm just finding it difficult to catch really decent shots, they're all the same, dark and the subject vehicles are a little blurry, I've added an example below, here's the data - f4, 1/60th, 10,000ISO, no flash. 
I'm not too bothered about noise, but if I could get better shots with the settings turned down for better IQ then I'd be delighted! That's why I'm thinking a fast firing flash unit!


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## privatebydesign (Jan 11, 2015)

What you are shooting, and in what environment, is key to helping you. No on camera flash powered by four AA batteries is going to keep up with regular 2 fps bursts.

But the Nissin MG8000, in my opinion, is a crazy overpriced third party option when, depending on your situation there are many other better options.


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## agierke (Jan 11, 2015)

Hmm, interesting. Never shot under those conditions but i imagine you need short bursts of fast recycle then you have a short break until the next racers are on the block?

What i would do is a single flash unit on a stand aimed at racers with wireless trigger. Dial the power down to match your ideal camera settings. If you get the power dialed down far enough (on say a 600ex rt) you may be able to get a decent recycle rate on batteries alone. If not attach an external power pack. Drag shutter for taste....

The only wrinkle i could potentially see is getting permission to fire a strobe in the direction of the racers. Participants in sporting events can be particular about conditions that may be distracting and flash is usually at the top of the list. 

Good luck.


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## privatebydesign (Jan 11, 2015)

I typed the last reply before you had posted your second Jock, so sorry for the overlap.

The Nissan is not the answer to your situation 

The Profoto B1 is the ultimate answer at this point. http://flashhavoc.com/profoto-b1-500-ttl-air-off-camera-flash/

Phottix have the Indra 500 http://flashhavoc.com/phottix-indra500-ttl-announced/, but that isn't an all in one unit as the battery is external. 

A budget all in one would be the newcomer RoveLight RL-600 http://flashhavoc.com/flashpoint-rovelight-rl-600-review/

If you absolutely have to go hotshoe mounted then the Godox Wistro's are probably the best rated at the moment http://flashhavoc.com/godox-witstro-ad180-ad360-review/

For a video demonstrating the B1's recycle rate take a look here. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uyfi_XBIJqI


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## Dylan777 (Jan 11, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> I typed the last reply before you had posted your second Jock, so sorry for the overlap.
> 
> The Nissan is not the answer to your situation
> 
> ...



Profoto B1 - I'm drooling


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## privatebydesign (Jan 11, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > I typed the last reply before you had posted your second Jock, so sorry for the overlap.
> ...



The B1 travel kit is almost certainly my next decent sized purchase, especially now they have the Canon HSS mostly fixed along with the ETTL, for me HSS is much more interesting than ETTL anyway. The trouble is the entire Profoto ecosystem has some pretty high prices, once you add in $400 for the trigger, $250 for an extra battery, $300 for a small softbox or reflector or beautydish, several hundred for grids etc etc, and servicing times and costs are crazy bad when compared to Canon or PCB. I also don't like that they haven't come out with a speedy softbox/octabox setup yet like the Paul C Buff Foldable series either, speedrings and rods are not a 'quick' solution and that is the real strength of the B1's.


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## Lawliet (Jan 11, 2015)

TheJock said:


> I'm just trying to think outside the box on how to achieve better shots from motorsports events at night,



A B4 gives you the most latitude, with the NBR and BDs or some cinefoil keeping light pollution at bay.
The Move1200L would be almost as fast but lighter.
Now making use of the strobes w/o killing the mood requires some thought - right after you found out what you're allowed to do and what would be a bad idea.


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## TheJock (Jan 12, 2015)

Thanks very much for all the input folks, your all superstars 
I have a lot to consider now, and that B1 is immense but pricey for my needs, but that Godox looks like a great alternative to a standard hotshoe flash unit, thanks again!!


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## TexPhoto (Jan 12, 2015)

A couple things My 580EXII is happy to fire at 10fps, you just have to turn the power down manually. Any flash that you can control works this way. Now you can't shoot full power but 1/4 or 1/8 works fine. Of course full power would be better, but 1/8 is whole lot better than 0 when you need to add some light.

But flash will generally get you warned or kicked out of professional sporting events. And 6, 8, or 10fps flash is just a strobe light that will make that happen much faster. I would think an auto race would be the same. If not you'd see pro photographers flashing away. Maybe you can, but I'd check first. 

Can you get to a location on the track that has steady artificial light?


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## Pookie (Jan 12, 2015)

I've used the Profoto B1 for about a month and they are choice but you're only goona get about 200 pop at full power with a fast recycle. I own the Elinchroms Ranger A and S heads and they are good too... you get about 140-160 full pops per charge. The batteries for both are very expensive. The Elinchroms Quadra's I own also in both A and S heads... no where near as fast a recycle but a good lightweight choice. The A heads of both have a ridiculous T.1 and T.5 times. perfect for action stopping durations. Both the Ranger's and the Quadra's I fire in HSS with Pocket wizards. 

You will run into issues with actually using any of these at a motor event as they can be quite distracting. At most event I need a permit and usually very select areas are only allowed.


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## TheJock (Jan 12, 2015)

The Dubai Autodrome is not that strict, the marshals will stop photog's from firing "head on" with the vehicles, we expect photog's to know this anyway, you can fire a flash as long as it's side on, generally at the end of your panning motion. I have seen some with remote units set at a 45/50 degree angle facing the rear of the cars, I would like to be able to fire at full FPS to catch that moment of pre-detonation (flame) from the exhausts while also illuminating the subject to allow me to drop those ridiculously high settings that I'm currently using as it's pitch black.
Thanks again for all the valuable input 8)


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## TexPhoto (Jan 12, 2015)

OK, well how about a studio flash like and alien bees running from a battery? Turn the power down and you can keep up with the frame rate and you'll be pushing much more power than a flash running off 4 AAs at full power.


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## Pookie (Jan 12, 2015)

TheJock said:


> The Dubai Autodrome is not that strict, the marshals will stop photog's from firing "head on" with the vehicles, we expect photog's to know this anyway, you can fire a flash as long as it's side on, generally at the end of your panning motion. I have seen some with remote units set at a 45/50 degree angle facing the rear of the cars, I would like to be able to fire at full FPS to catch that moment of pre-detonation (flame) from the exhausts while also illuminating the subject to allow me to drop those ridiculously high settings that I'm currently using as it's pitch black.
> Thanks again for all the valuable input 8)



Your lucky then, I shoot at Laguna Seca and Sears Point... that would never fly here.


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## lourenco (Jan 12, 2015)

I know the flashes like the Profoto B1 will allow for fast FPS flash firing at lower flash outputs. The concern I have about the lower flash output is most of the flashes will have very short flash duration. 

I would be at 1/200 to 1/250 sync speed with iso at 1,600. The camera would show several stops under exposed from the ambient light. The camera would not see much at all if any of the ambient exposure. The main exposure being the flash only.

The problem I ran into is the flash duration at the lower power output to allow for quick FPS burst will freeze the vehicle way too much. The flash duration being that camera sees. The Flash power being 1/16 could have flash duration of 1/6500 depending on the flash head. http://speedlights.net/2011/04/18/canon-speedlite-580ex-ii-flash-review/ . 

I have canon 580EX II flash and Einstein E640 Flash Unit. Both have rather quick flash duration at low power output. 

I had to shoot closer to full power to be able to show motion blur on the tires, which only allowed me for one shot every 1-2 seconds. I was rather unhappy about that. 

I do not mind completely freezing the action for other sports. I mainly shoot drag racing. I tried oval track, but I was not happy with the results. 

If you can find a flash head with a long flash duration at a lower power level for quick FPS, please let me know. I am interested in trying to find one myself.


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## TheJock (Jan 13, 2015)

I'm feeling your pain Lourenco having just spent 16 hours at the track, perhaps the solution is to "floodlight" the area (rear facing of course) with an LED light panel


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