# Canon Hong Kong confirms September 14, 2021 announcement date for the Canon EOS R3



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 7, 2021)

> It looks like September 14, 2021 (depending on geography) has been confirmed by Canon Hong Kong as the announcement date for the Canon EOS R3.
> I believe that first shipments of the Canon EOS R3 will be in November, but I haven’t confirmed that information as of yet, but we don’t have long to wait to find out for certain.
> Pricing for the Canon EOS R3 is not yet known, I have unfortunately received various pricing suggestions that don’t line up as of yet.
> Canon EOS R3 Specifications:
> ...



Continue reading...


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## bergstrom (Sep 7, 2021)

They can launch all the want, its all about price.


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## Chaitanya (Sep 7, 2021)

Its going too rich for me but will be renting it for fun.


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## 12Broncos (Sep 7, 2021)

It's finally being announced!


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## dboris (Sep 7, 2021)

All I want is 6K raw 60p


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## Lt Colonel (Sep 7, 2021)

Wonder why the confirmation came out of Hong Kong and not Tokyo? Just curious. I'm sure there is a logical reason like Canon's PR team is located there.


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## DBounce (Sep 7, 2021)

Nothing about overheating… or rather not overheating. Let’s hope the added size has done away with this issue.
No specs on frame rates for video either. 6K resolution seems to be in the cards, though not listed.


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## bbasiaga (Sep 7, 2021)

Pricing will be interesting. They keep saying it is NOT their flagship....but I think there is a chance it will be more expensive than the 1DXIII. The R1 I think has a chance to be $8k USD, which gives a lot of room between there and the R5 to slot this. Canon has been pushing pricing a lot (e.g. 20%, or sometimes more), so that is how you get a $6500 1DXIII up to an $8k R1. Could they then put the R3 at $6600? I think its at least possible. 

I hope its more like $4k, but I think that makes it too close to the R5. SO I'm guessing the floor for pricing will be $4500. In my purely speculative math here, that's a range of probability between $4500 and $6700USD. All too much for me. But I'm still waiting with excitement to see what the final answer is. 

Brian


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## docsmith (Sep 7, 2021)

It has clearly been in a number of reviewers hands, so looking forward to the onslaught of impression videos. I am probably most excited to see if there are any improvements from the BSI sensor that will eventually translate to other products and, second to that, to see if/how much the power power batteries help with AF over the R5/6.

But, other than MPs, this seems like a beast. If you want more MPs, this is not your camera.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Sep 7, 2021)

bbasiaga said:


> Pricing will be interesting. They keep saying it is NOT their flagship....but I think there is a chance it will be more expensive than the 1DXIII. The R1 I think has a chance to be $8k USD, which gives a lot of room between there and the R5 to slot this. Canon has been pushing pricing a lot (e.g. 20%, or sometimes more), so that is how you get a $6500 1DXIII up to an $8k R1. Could they then put the R3 at $6600? I think its at least possible.
> 
> I hope its more like $4k, but I think that makes it too close to the R5. SO I'm guessing the floor for pricing will be $4500. In my purely speculative math here, that's a range of probability between $4500 and $6700USD. All too much for me. But I'm still waiting with excitement to see what the final answer is.
> 
> Brian



Each chip in the R series is going up by as much as 20% with the silicon shortage affecting everyone. And excellent time to reposition your products into higher tiers.


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## unfocused (Sep 7, 2021)

Lt Colonel said:


> Wonder why the confirmation came out of Hong Kong and not Tokyo? Just curious. I'm sure there is a logical reason like Canon's PR team is located there.


If it is like past announcements, the Canon affiliate in each market (Canon USA for example) handles the publicity for each launch. Canon Japan sets a launch date, but that date is linked to local time, so, for example, the announcement might come at 10 a.m. Sept. 14, in London, while in the U.S. we will still be waiting. Good news is that once released in one market, we basically get all the details except pricing, which we have to wait for the local announcement to confirm. With a Hong Kong announcement on 9/14, we should have details in the U.S. sometime late 9/13.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 7, 2021)

bergstrom said:


> They can launch all the want, its all about price.


For me, it’s all about availability.


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## FrenchFry (Sep 7, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


Hooray ! We R Ready!!!!


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## FrenchFry (Sep 7, 2021)

bbasiaga said:


> Pricing will be interesting. They keep saying it is NOT their flagship....but I think there is a chance it will be more expensive than the 1DXIII. The R1 I think has a chance to be $8k USD, which gives a lot of room between there and the R5 to slot this. Canon has been pushing pricing a lot (e.g. 20%, or sometimes more), so that is how you get a $6500 1DXIII up to an $8k R1. Could they then put the R3 at $6600? I think its at least possible.
> 
> I hope its more like $4k, but I think that makes it too close to the R5. SO I'm guessing the floor for pricing will be $4500. In my purely speculative math here, that's a range of probability between $4500 and $6700USD. All too much for me. But I'm still waiting with excitement to see what the final answer is.
> 
> Brian


Hi,
There is a thread for price speculation here, in case it is of interest:





Place your bets! What do you think the R3 will cost?


You found a seller of the R3? Two shops list the camera. Preordering. Metioned it just for pricing - which is VERY high https://www.idealo.de/preisvergleich/OffersOfProduct/201213276_-eos-r3-body-canon.html




www.canonrumors.com


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## arbitrage (Sep 7, 2021)




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## FrenchFry (Sep 7, 2021)

arbitrage said:


>


Thanks for posting!

First time I have made plans at 3am since... well... probably the R5 announcement. 

I didn't see anything on the Canon Korea site or YouTube. Hopefully all coming soon!


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## John Wilde (Sep 7, 2021)

bergstrom said:


> They can launch all the want, its all about price.


Canon's press release stated that the R3 is "positioned squarely between the EOS R5 and EOS-1D X Mark III cameras", so it should be priced lower than the 1D X.


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## DBounce (Sep 7, 2021)

docsmith said:


> It has clearly been in a number of reviewers hands, so looking forward to the onslaught of impression videos. I am probably most excited to see if there are any improvements from the BSI sensor that will eventually translate to other products and, second to that, to see if/how much the power power batteries help with AF over the R5/6.
> 
> But, other than MPs, this seems like a beast. If you want more MPs, this is not your camera.


If this is free from any overheating issues and comes in at $4500, I’ll preorder. At $6600 I think this will be a hard pass. I’m actually not loving a larger body. Size/weight was one of the reasons I sold my 1DXMK2. Cameras that large are only carried deliberately… never casually; Many will try, but in the end they will start to leave it behind.

This camera needs to be priced attractively to be a winner.


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## JoeDavid (Sep 7, 2021)

Canon Europe’s email says 14/09/21 at 11:00AM BST.


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## justaCanonuser (Sep 7, 2021)

(R) 3 wishes... erm, you don't exactly have, as a customer (my first wish would be a decent R7 crop camera). But I may tune in to follow their big announcement of the R3 + some new lenses


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## justaCanonuser (Sep 7, 2021)

DBounce said:


> Nothing about overheating… or rather not overheating.


Well, it's supposed to be hot news by Canon...


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## dboris (Sep 7, 2021)

With the chip shortage and high demand, I think canon will haven't hesitated a second to set the pricing on the high tiers.


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## Tidy Media (Sep 7, 2021)

dboris said:


> All I want is 6K raw 60p


Will probs be just under 6K but they should be able to do it without overheating like the 1DX III. Fingers Crossed.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Sep 7, 2021)

dboris said:


> All I want is 6K raw 60p



The C line will surely get your video specs covered for the same coin?


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## Ozarker (Sep 7, 2021)

This will be a very nice camera. I only wish it were 30mp. Glad I have plenty of time and a complete lack of resources. Makes the wait easier.


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## Roland (Sep 7, 2021)

Suspect pricing around £5500 - £5900, given R5 in uk not changed since launch still £4300 (equivalent $5900) so can’t see a $4000 price as some hope.


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## DJPatte (Sep 7, 2021)

Phew - I haven't really seen another list of specifications since like 12 hours or so, glad we got that sorted out


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## Deleted member 381342 (Sep 7, 2021)

Roland said:


> Suspect pricing around £5500 - £5900, given R5 in uk not changed since launch still £4300 (equivalent $5900) so can’t see a $4000 price as some hope.



Its £3780 to £3950 just now


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## Roland (Sep 7, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> Its £3780 to £3950 just now


Where as Wex and Park Cameras still £4300?


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## neurorx (Sep 7, 2021)

FrenchFry said:


> Hi,
> There is a thread for price speculation here, in case it is of interest:
> 
> 
> ...


I think this will be a difficult one to predict. The Sony and Nikon flagships are rumored around 6500-7000USD. An R1 likely has to be competitive against these cameras. An R3 being much more like a Sony a9II with a battery grip (Sony a9III rumored to be on the way), 5000USD is likely about where the R3 would have to be priced at. I would be surprised at anything less and if it were it would tip me over the edge to getting it.


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## dba101 (Sep 7, 2021)

Roland said:


> Where as Wex and Park Cameras still £4300





CanonFanBoy said:


> This will be a very nice camera. I only wish it were 30mp. Glad I have plenty of time and a complete lack of resources. Makes the wait easier.


You can overheat all you want baby, 10 mins of anything from high-end Canon is like gold dust. fingers at the ready.


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## rbielefeld (Sep 7, 2021)

bbasiaga said:


> Pricing will be interesting. They keep saying it is NOT their flagship....but I think there is a chance it will be more expensive than the 1DXIII. The R1 I think has a chance to be $8k USD, which gives a lot of room between there and the R5 to slot this. Canon has been pushing pricing a lot (e.g. 20%, or sometimes more), so that is how you get a $6500 1DXIII up to an $8k R1. Could they then put the R3 at $6600? I think its at least possible.
> 
> I hope its more like $4k, but I think that makes it too close to the R5. SO I'm guessing the floor for pricing will be $4500. In my purely speculative math here, that's a range of probability between $4500 and $6700USD. All too much for me. But I'm still waiting with excitement to see what the final answer is.
> 
> Brian


To me this camera is very much in line with the Sony a9II and you can get a Sony a9II with battery grip for approx. $4500. So, if Canon at all thinks it needs to compete with Sony the price of the R3 should be about $5000 given it has some newer tech then the Sony (e.g., eye controlled AF). But, Canon may not care about Sony at all and price the R3 and $6000 or more. All I can say is, if the R3 is $6000 I will pass on this camera.


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## arbitrage (Sep 7, 2021)

Judging from these two screen grabs I took from Jared's R3 "unbox" and his R6 1yr in review videos it appears the R3 will be a little smaller (at least shorter) than a gripped R5/6. So that is good news to me. I'm thinking this thing must be 1DIV sized.


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## canonmike (Sep 7, 2021)

dboris said:


> With the chip shortage and high demand, I think canon will haven't hesitated a second to set the pricing on the high tiers.


I'd be leaning that way, as well. Close to $6k wouldn't surprise me, at all, especially after seeing lens prices raised recently. If priced too high, they can always come down if there is market resistance.


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## [email protected] (Sep 7, 2021)

bergstrom said:


> They can launch all the want, its all about price.


Nikon - this is how you do PR,,,, One way good for Canon to announce a fast pro built mid res 1D MK 3, generating good PR and buzz excellently executed by Canon - get sales and trounce on their competitors P1 - Sony, past Nikon few years ago.,

Come on Nikon step up - get Z9, Z8 out of the door along with more Z lenses, expand their line, improve your PR and marketing to expand / improve on your user base.

Can't wait to see Canon's R3 and also Nikon Z9 being released shortly.


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## rick2 (Sep 7, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> For me, it’s all about availability.


But it would need to have animal eye AF right?


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## canonmike (Sep 7, 2021)

rbielefeld said:


> To me this camera is very much in line with the Sony a9II and you can get a Sony a9II with battery grip for approx. $4500. So, if Canon at all thinks it needs to compete with Sony the price of the R3 should be about $5000 given it has some newer tech then the Sony (e.g., eye controlled AF). But, Canon may not care about Sony at all and price the R3 and $6000 or more. All I can say is, if the R3 is $6000 I will pass on this camera.


At $6k, I think you will find many that agree with you. At $5k, the R3 will be difficult to come by for some time, imo.


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## stevelee (Sep 7, 2021)

JoeDavid said:


> Canon Europe’s email says 14/09/21 at 11:00AM BST.


Which is noon, Central European Summer Time, is it not?


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## Roland (Sep 7, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> Its £3780 to £3950 just now


Not anywhere I can find, of course Grey imports cheaper but not what I’d buy. Can’t see R3 below £5500 though.


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## rbielefeld (Sep 7, 2021)

canonmike said:


> At $6k, I think you will find many that agree with you. At $5k, the R3 will be difficult to come by for some time, imo.


I agree. Heck, Canon may price it at $6000 hoping it will sell at a pace it can handle; knowing it will not be able to produce many of these bodies over the next year or so. Then, after a year, when supply chains are hopefully in better shape, drop the price to ramp up sales. I don't really believe this is any kind of strategy Canon would employ, but...


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## Atlasman (Sep 7, 2021)

DBounce said:


> If this is free from any overheating issues and comes in at $4500, I’ll preorder. At $6600 I think this will be a hard pass. I’m actually not loving a larger body. Size/weight was one of the reasons I sold my 1DXMK2. Cameras that large are only carried deliberately… never casually; Many will try, but in the end they will start to leave it behind.
> 
> This camera needs to be priced attractively to be a winner.


Especially if Sony releases an A9III—a battle of the form-factors!


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 7, 2021)

canonmike said:


> I'd be leaning that way, as well. Close to $6k wouldn't surprise me, at all, especially after seeing lens prices raised recently. If priced too high, they can always come down if there is market resistance.


My guess was (and remains) $6200-6400. I won't complain if it's cheaper, of course. But given that they just bumped RF lens prices, given the chip shortages (whether or not chips were sourced before that, it's a reason to charge more), and given the target market, a price close to that of the 1D X III will not surprise me (nor will it deter me).


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## muentzer (Sep 7, 2021)

bergstrom said:


> They can launch all the want, its all about price.





neuroanatomist said:


> For me, it’s all about availability.



So true. I ordered the 100-500 and preordered the 100 Macro and the 14-35. I am waiting for months now. I do not need any more announcements for gear that won't be available anytime soon.


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## HotPixels (Sep 7, 2021)

Atlasman said:


> Especially if Sony releases an A9III—a battle of the form-factors!


There's this false competition between brands that we also see debated in forums. 

Most invested in a brand will not switch. It's too expensive, too much hassle. And you lose the advantage of the experience you have acquired learning your current system.

This competition matters more to reviewers, who get to review all of the equipment from all brands, and so the competition narrative makes it more interesting for them and attracts more views/reads, etc, mostly from people who won't ever use the equipment and are kind of like spectators in a sports game.

But there is no Sony A9III and likely not to be for a while. Sony had to stop production on their popular A7SIII due to the chip shortage. I know one guy who would buy one if he could find one. They are still having problems meeting demand for their A1. Their next likely release is the A7 IV. They have no bandwidth for an a9III at this point and it wouldn't make much sense. Why compete against their higher priced A1, which they can't make enough of?

The a9III rumor was rated as a long shot even by SAR. So let's get rid of that notion.

If Canon says that the 1DXIII is still their flagship, then they almost have to price it lower than that model. Now how much lower we will see. But it won't make much sense for Canon to still proclaim that their 1DXIII is their flagship but have the R3 priced higher.


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## rbielefeld (Sep 7, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> My guess was (and remains) $6200-6400. I won't complain if it's cheaper, of course. But given that they just bumped RF lens prices, given the chip shortages (whether or not chips were sourced before that, it's a reason to charge more), and given the target market, a price close to that of the 1D X III will not surprise me (nor will it deter me).


Hmm, a Canon R3 at $6400 or a Sony a9II+battery grip+200-600mm for $6400? If I did not already own the Sony a9II and 200-600, and knowing how good a camera and lens combo it is, I would be hard pressed to pick the Canon R3. Now maybe the Canon R3 will have more mp then 24, and/or the AF is just so much better that is blows the a9II out of the water. We shall see given inflation, chip shortages, and supply line issues. But, to me, $6400 seems a bit out of line given the information currently on hand regarding the R3 and the offerings of competitors.


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## HotPixels (Sep 7, 2021)

rbielefeld said:


> Hmm, a Canon R3 at $6400 or a Sony a9II+battery grip+200-600mm for $6400? If I did not already own the Sony a9II and 200-600, and knowing how good a camera and lens combo it is, I would be hard pressed to pick the Canon R3. Now maybe the Canon R3 will have more mp then 24, and/or the AF is just so much better that is blows the a9II out of the water. We shall see given inflation, chip shortages, and supply line issues. But, to me, $6400 seems a bit out of line given the information currently on hand regarding the R3 and the offerings of competitors.


The Canon pro body is far more durable and reliable than a Sony. No contest. That counts for something, esp if one does a lot of shooting in challenging conditions. 

Plus many prefer the larger body style for ergonomics and handling, especially with longer lenses.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 7, 2021)

muentzer said:


> So true. I ordered the 100-500 and preordered the 100 Macro and the 14-35. I am waiting for months now. I do not need any more announcements for gear that won't be available anytime soon.


Timing is everything...well, retailer helps, too. I ordered my 100-500 on August 15th, had it in my hands on August 25th.


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## canonmike (Sep 7, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> My guess was (and remains) $6200-6400. I won't complain if it's cheaper, of course. But given that they just bumped RF lens prices, given the chip shortages (whether or not chips were sourced before that, it's a reason to charge more), and given the target market, a price close to that of the 1D X III will not surprise me (nor will it deter me).


Yes, neuroanatomist, we know you're committed to buying the R3, no matter the cost. You've made that quite clear in many of your posts. It's your money and that's your prerogative. You are a perfect Canon buyer and they, no doubt love you. Some of the rest of us however, have a ceiling, whatever that might be, once exceeded, that may cause us to just say no thanks. There are many people out there that are perfectly willing to pay over MSRP for a new car, just so they can be the first car enthusiast to own one and that's okay. I just don't happen to be one of them. There are many good arguments for both viewpoints. It's all in one's perspective, wants, needs, budgetary constraints, if any, etc. By gosh, if you want to buy the camera for me, I'll take it, no matter the cost. Since, however, that's not going to happen and I will have to take out my own bill fold to pay for it, I may just be a little more selective before pulling out the plastic from MY billfold. In any case, good luck with your new R3 purchase and I hope you don't have to wait long to get it, once announced and pre-orders become available from your merchant of choice. I've always had great respect for the first adopters that step up to the plate and break ground for the rest of us. Personally, I'm tired of all the dangling carrots. Just show me the baby, whatever the MP's, whatever the price, whatever the whatever.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 7, 2021)

HotPixels said:


> There's this false competition between brands that we also see debated in forums.
> 
> Most invested in a brand will not switch. It's too expensive, too much hassle. And you lose the advantage of the experience you have acquired learning your current system.


^^ This.

There are a (relative) few people who switch systems from time to time or run multiple systems. Sometimes agencies switch, but that's a financial decision with the change forced on photographers (and not welcomed by most, because really who likes change being forced on them?). 

Most people stay in-brand.


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## LSXPhotog (Sep 7, 2021)

This may be the most cryptic new product announcement for a Canon camera yet. I wonder why Canon still hasn’t confirmed the resolution. It makes me wonder what’s going on here, is there something clever going on they want to protect? Are they also quadrupling pixels for increased resolution like we saw on the Mavic Air 2, which was really a 12mp sensor that could fudge its way rather convincingly to 47mp? That tech was new then and has also been seen in phones, but never with a large sensor stacked BSI sensor - it could be very interesting. One of CR’s sources said the camera had a resolution trick up its sleeve, my mind immediately went to this. Or did we see stills from a crop mode? Perhaps an APS-H crop mode?

The fact of the matter is this: at 24mp, Canon cannot launch this camera against the high resolution Z9 and A1, which will be priced in the $6500 territory. At 24mp, it has to be priced competitively with the A9II, which is the $4500-5400 mark. I truly believe that if Canon puts the R3 up in price against the A1 and Z9 it will be a failure for them. And truth be told, I’m not keen on spending over $6000 on a 24mp sensor camera again after doing it for the 1DXII in 2016. The R5 easily replaced that camera for me in 2020. 

I guess we’ll know in 1 week if any of this is true. My prediction is honestly no super resolution ability and a price of $6000. In which case I will likely pass on this in favor of a second R5 body I’ll send out to be video modded.


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## unfocused (Sep 7, 2021)

HotPixels said:


> ...Most invested in a brand will not switch. It's too expensive, too much hassle. And you lose the advantage of the experience you have acquired learning your current system...


This. I never even look at other brands. I have too much invested in Canon and have no desire to change for what would no doubt be a few incremental differences with inevitable trade offs.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 7, 2021)

canonmike said:


> Yes, neuroanatomist, we know you're committed to buying the R3, no matter the cost. You've made that quite clear in many of your posts. It's your money and that's your prerogative. You are a perfect Canon buyer and they, no doubt love you. Some of the rest of us however, have a ceiling, whatever that might be, once exceeded, that may cause us to just say no thanks.


Of course! And not 'no matter the cost'. If the R3 comes in at >$8K, unlikely as that may be, I'd pass. More than $7K, I'd likely wait a while. Not about budget, but about value for cost.


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## degos (Sep 7, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> Most people stay in-brand.



Normally yes, but the RF system is essentially a new brand. Sure you can use your old EF lenses but they'll be out of support in seven or fewer years.


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## unfocused (Sep 7, 2021)

LSXPhotog said:


> This may be the most cryptic new product announcement for a Canon camera yet. I wonder why Canon still hasn’t confirmed the resolution....


I don't recall Canon ever confirming a resolution before release. I'd like to be proven wrong. Can you do that?


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 7, 2021)

LSXPhotog said:


> The fact of the matter is this: at 24mp, Canon cannot launch this camera against the high resolution Z9 and A1, which will be priced in the $6500 territory. At 24mp, it has to be priced competitively with the A9II, which is the $4500-5400 mark. I truly believe that if Canon puts the R3 up in price against the A1 and Z9 it will be a failure for them. And truth be told, I’m not keen on spending over $6000 on a 24mp sensor camera again after doing it for the 1DXII in 2016. The R5 easily replaced that camera for me in 2020.


Interesting that you say Canon has to compete with Nikon and Sony, but in the next sentence you say that if the R3 is priced too high, you'll just buy another R5. Canon will still get our money, albeit a bit less of it.

That illustrates 'the facts of the matter' rather clearly. Contrary to your statement, Canon isn't competing with Nikon and Sony. They are trying to attract current Canon users (who comprise the majority of ILC users) to buy the R3.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 7, 2021)

degos said:


> Normally yes, but the RF system is essentially a new brand. Sure you can use your old EF lenses but they'll be out of support in seven or fewer years.


Will my 7 Canon flashes become obsolete? Will the menu interface change? Will the zoom direction of the lenses change? 

No, it's not a new brand.


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## FrenchFry (Sep 7, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> Interesting that you say Canon has to compete with Nikon and Sony, but in the next sentence you say that if the R3 is priced too high, you'll just buy another R5. Canon will still get our money, albeit a bit less of it.
> 
> That illustrates 'the facts of the matter' rather clearly. Contrary to your statement, Canon isn't competing with Nikon and Sony. They are trying to attract current Canon users (who comprise the majority of ILC users) to buy the R3.


I agree that Canon is probably mostly targeting the existing Canon market with this body. I suspect that some of the people Canon is trying to attract the most with the R3 are Canon DSLR users who have not ventured into mirrorless yet. Think of the untapped RF lens sale potential from those users! 
With a high MP R1, Canon may try to win over Sony and Nikon customers. But for now, the A1/Z9 will outperform the R3 in some key specs, so it's unlikely to eat into the Sony/Nikon market share as much as something more unique and revolutionary.


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## canonmike (Sep 7, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> Of course! And not 'no matter the cost'. If the R3 comes in at >$8K, unlikely as that may be, I'd pass. More than $7K, I'd likely wait a while. Not about budget, but about value for cost.


Good clarification. In my case, waiting a few days doesn't really matter. I need to see the pre-order price and the official specs, first, so I can make an informed decision. I so hope that I am amazed at the mind blowing specs, no sarcasm intended and the unbelievable low price. Ok, Canon, you've thrown all this hype out there. We're waiting with pockets bulging, mouths drooling, hungry beyond belief for real reviews. Throw out those damn NDA's, bring it on. Let your ambassadors show it to us, so your naysayers can pick it apart. We want to see it. We're waiting......


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## melgross (Sep 7, 2021)

September 14th isn’t going to be the best day for an announcement if they want significant news coverage. That’s the day Apple has announced for their phone and watch (plus whatever else) presentation.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Sep 7, 2021)

Roland said:


> Not anywhere I can find, of course Grey imports cheaper but not what I’d buy. Can’t see R3 below £5500 though.



I would not quote a grey import.


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## LSXPhotog (Sep 7, 2021)

unfocused said:


> I don't recall Canon ever confirming a resolution before release. I'd like to be proven wrong. Can you do that?


Sorry, I have better things to do. haha I'm more referencing the way Canon's way of marketing since the R5/R6 announcement is dangling carrots in front of us. When the EOS R launched, that was it...it launched. When the 90D/M6II launched, the 1DXIII, that was it....no fuss. But with the R5 and even more so, I believe, with the R3, they announce the camera in small pieces and small details.


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## Atlasman (Sep 7, 2021)

HotPixels said:


> There's this false competition between brands that we also see debated in forums.
> 
> Most invested in a brand will not switch. It's too expensive, too much hassle. And you lose the advantage of the experience you have acquired learning your current system.
> 
> ...


This competiton matters more to the consumer. The R3 points directly at the A9 series—and that's why there should be an A9III.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 7, 2021)

LSXPhotog said:


> Sorry, I have better things to do. haha I'm more referencing the way Canon's way of marketing since the R5/R6 announcement is dangling carrots in front of us. When the EOS R launched, that was it...it launched. When the 90D/M6II launched, the 1DXIII, that was it....no fuss. But with the R5 and even more so, I believe, with the R3, they announce the camera in small pieces and small details.


Get your memory checked. Haha.

As an easy-to-find example, here's the preview of the 1D X III, a couple of months before the launch.






Canon announces the faster, more powerful 1D X Mark III flagship DSLR (UPDATED)


UPDATE, Jan. 08, 2020: Canon has officially announced the 1D X Mark III, and we've now published our detailed First Impressions Preview. Click here to read our Canon EOS 1D X Mark III Preview. • • • Surprise,…



www.imaging-resource.com





No mention of the sensor MP in that preview, but they talk about AF performance, frame rate, buffer depth, controls and connectivity. Sounds a lot like the 'dangling carrots' provided for the R3.


----------



## rbielefeld (Sep 7, 2021)

HotPixels said:


> The Canon pro body is far more durable and reliable than a Sony. No contest. That counts for something, esp if one does a lot of shooting in challenging conditions.
> 
> Plus many prefer the larger body style for ergonomics and handling, especially with longer lenses.


I do a lot of shooting in some pretty demanding conditions and have been doing it for years (I lead wildlife photography tours around the world and you go out even if the conditions are not great). I have shot in the hot, wet, mud, dust, sand, cold, ice, extreme humidity, etc., and I have not had my a9II or a7rIV give me any more troubles then my 1DxII or my two R5s. I am an N of 1, so I won't state anything beyond my personal experience, but I will not hesitate to take any of my cameras where and when I need to go including my Sonys.


HotPixels said:


> The Canon pro body is far more durable and reliable than a Sony. No contest. That counts for something, esp if one does a lot of shooting in challenging conditions.
> 
> Plus many prefer the larger body style for ergonomics and handling, especially with longer lenses.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 7, 2021)

Atlasman said:


> This competiton matters more to the consumer. The R3 points directly at the A9 series—and that's why there should be an A9III.


'Consumer' competition is the M50 II vs. the a6400.


----------



## LSXPhotog (Sep 7, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> Interesting that you say Canon has to compete with Nikon and Sony, but in the next sentence you say that if the R3 is priced too high, you'll just buy another R5. Canon will still get our money, albeit a bit less of it.
> 
> That illustrates 'the facts of the matter' rather clearly. Contrary to your statement, Canon isn't competing with Nikon and Sony. They are trying to attract current Canon users (who comprise the majority of ILC users) to buy the R3.


That's a very narrow perspective of how you think the largest camera company in the world operates. LOL As if Canon's historic global competition with a declining brand and a quickly emerging competitor doesn't drive their company's strategy...right. Canon doesn't have to worry about Canon owners because, as you assume, we'll buy anything with a Canon badge - so why even try? No, Canon absolutely understands how this camera looks against its rivals is extremely important. My apologies for trying to have some fun and speculate features and predict where this camera might be priced...why are you even on this forum if you don't want to take part in the entire existence for this forum? Holy smokes. LOL


----------



## uof96 (Sep 7, 2021)

9+14+21=44.... MP perhaps? Coincidence? Probably not... but wouldn't that be nice.


----------



## Atlasman (Sep 7, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> 'Consumer' competition is the M50 II vs. the a6400.


Consumer is all of us!


----------



## Michael T (Sep 7, 2021)

My guess is $6,000. I am interested in other predictions on price.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 7, 2021)

LSXPhotog said:


> That's a very narrow perspective of how you think the largest camera company in the world operates. LOL As if Canon's historic global competition with a declining brand and a quickly emerging competitor doesn't drive their company's strategy...right. Canon doesn't have to worry about Canon owners because, as you assume, we'll buy anything with a Canon badge - so why even try? No, Canon absolutely understands how this camera looks against its rivals is extremely important. My apologies for trying to have some fun and speculate features and predict where this camera might be priced...why are you even on this forum if you don't want to take part in the entire existence for this forum? Holy smokes. LOL


Speculation and fun are fine, if properly informed. Your post on the 'dangling carrots' being new shows that the information you bring to the table is not very reliable. 

As for competition, of course Canon is aware of it and it contributes to strategy, but if brand switching was common, market share would shift much more rapidly than it does. There's a reason they've been the market leader for nearly two decades. Most of that is down to attracting entry-level customers and keeping them in-system.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 7, 2021)

Atlasman said:


> Consumer is all of us!


90% of ILCs being sold are APS-C.


----------



## blackcoffee17 (Sep 7, 2021)

DBounce said:


> Nothing about overheating… or rather not overheating. Let’s hope the added size has done away with this issue.
> No specs on frame rates for video either. 6K resolution seems to be in the cards, though not listed.



Canon is never going to say "this camera won't overheat". That is like admitting the R5/R6 were "faulty" in some way.


----------



## masterpix (Sep 7, 2021)

I wonder about the 24MP sensor, it does not fit with in the "R3 will be between the R5 and the R1". The R5 is 45MP, the R1 will be 20-24MP so the R3 should be about 28-32MP camera to "fit between" it also fit the data transfere rate vs number of frames. 45MP at 20FPS, and then 30FPS should be about 30MP sensor.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 7, 2021)

masterpix said:


> I wonder about the 24MP sensor, it does not fit with in the "R3 will be between the R5 and the R1". The R5 is 45MP, the R1 will be 20-24MP so the R3 should be about 28-32MP camera to "fit between" it also fit the data transfere rate vs number of frames. 45MP at 20FPS, and then 30FPS should be about 30MP sensor.


Canon stated between the R5 and the 1D X III, not between the R5 and the R1. 24 MP is between 45 and 20 MP. Data transfer rate matters to camera designers and forum dwellers.


----------



## FrenchFry (Sep 7, 2021)

Michael T said:


> My guess is $6,000. I am interested in other predictions on price.


This thread is dedicated to predicting the price of the R3.


----------



## FrenchFry (Sep 7, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> Canon stated between the R5 and the 1D X III, not between the R5 and the R1. 24 MP is between 45 and 20 MP. Data transfer rate matters to camera designers and forum dwellers.


24MP is between 20MP and 45MP, but not "squarely between"

Of course, we don't know what exactly Canon meant in the quote. Did they mean the price? MP count? AF capabilities? speed? It would be hard to be exactly squarely between on all of the above. 

"The Canon EOS R3 will join the current lineup of EOS R full-frame mirrorless series cameras. This camera will usher in a new category to the EOS R system, positioned *squarely between* the EOS R5 and EOS-1D X Mark III cameras."








Canon Announces That The Powerful Professional Full-Frame EOS R3 Mirrorless Camera Is On Its Way


MELVILLE, NY, April 14, 2021– Canon U.S.A. Inc., a leader in digital imaging solutions, today announced that its parent company, Canon Inc., is developing a



www.canonrumors.com


----------



## Hector1970 (Sep 7, 2021)

$6500 and 30MP is my guess.
I’ll be annoyed if it’s $7000 and 24MP.
Surely Canon would like to wow with a 30MP sensor after beating down expectations to 24MP.
It feels like a Keyser Sose moment, the greatest trick Canon ever pulled was convincing the world the R3 was 24MP.
(A bit of wishful thinking never hurt anyone).


----------



## DBounce (Sep 7, 2021)

blackcoffee17 said:


> Canon is never going to say "this camera won't overheat". That is like admitting the R5/R6 were "faulty" in some way.


Canon already admitted that the R5 and R6 will overheat. I think it would be a mistake for them not to clearly state that the overheating concerns are addressed in this camera, if indeed they are.
For many, overheating is the elephant in the room.


----------



## Mikehit (Sep 7, 2021)

LSXPhotog said:


> That's a very narrow perspective of how you think the largest camera company in the world operates. LOL As if Canon's historic global competition with a declining brand and a quickly emerging competitor doesn't drive their company's strategy...right. Canon doesn't have to worry about Canon owners because, as you assume, we'll buy anything with a Canon badge - so why even try? No, Canon absolutely understands how this camera looks against its rivals is extremely important. My apologies for trying to have some fun and speculate features and predict where this camera might be priced...why are you even on this forum if you don't want to take part in the entire existence for this forum? Holy smokes. LOL


What is this 'quickly emerging competitor' of which you speak? Could be Sony, the company who held about 17% of the ILC market in 2012 and with all their technological superiority has boosted their 'quickly emerging' status to....oh.....less than 20% of the ILC market? Canon clearly have a lot to worry about.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 7, 2021)

Mikehit said:


> What is this 'quickly emerging competitor' of which you speak? Could be Sony, the company who held about 17% of the ILC market in 2012 and with all their technological superiority has boosted their 'quickly emerging' status to....oh.....less than 20% of the ILC market? Canon clearly have a lot to worry about.


Now, now...Sony sold more ILCs than any other manufacturer. In South Korea. In April of 2018.


----------



## tron (Sep 7, 2021)

Hmm squarely between: Let's do some "creative" wishful thinking:

45**2 = 20**2 + x**2.

It we solve for x its SQRT (45**2-20**2) = SQRT (2025-400) = SQRT (1625) ~ 40.3

Hey Canon where is our 40.3MPixel R3?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 7, 2021)

tron said:


> Hmm squarely between: Let's do some "creative" wishful thinking:
> 
> 45**2 = 20**2 + x**2.
> 
> ...


Perhaps you failed to notice that there were more instructions on the back of the headpiece: "Take back 1D Mark IV worth of megapixels to honor the Goddess Eos, whose Camera this is."


----------



## unfocused (Sep 7, 2021)

masterpix said:


> ...the R1 will be 20-24MP...



When did Canon announce the sensor resolution of the R1? I missed that.


----------



## twoheadedboy (Sep 7, 2021)

DBounce said:


> If this is free from any overheating issues and comes in at $4500, I’ll preorder. At $6600 I think this will be a hard pass. I’m actually not loving a larger body. Size/weight was one of the reasons I sold my 1DXMK2. Cameras that large are only carried deliberately… never casually; Many will try, but in the end they will start to leave it behind.
> 
> This camera needs to be priced attractively to be a winner.


To be fair, it's not the same size as a 1DX or an R5 with a grip, it's smaller than that, based on the Fro Knows video from the other day.


----------



## Emyr Evans (Sep 7, 2021)

Apple event also 14th September.

Clearly both companies have teamed up. 

Get ready for a iR3 Pro Max next week.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 7, 2021)

DBounce said:


> If this is free from any overheating issues and comes in at $4500, I’ll preorder. At $6600 I think this will be a hard pass. I’m actually not loving a larger body. Size/weight was one of the reasons I sold my 1DXMK2. Cameras that large are only carried deliberately… never casually; Many will try, but in the end they will start to leave it behind.


IMO, there's little difference between a non-gripped FF MILC and a 1-series – both are big and heavy once you include a standard zoom (granted, a Sigma fp with a pancake prime is pretty small). The next level down is an APS-C MILC like the EOS M system, and those are similar in size to a G-series. Then there are smartphones. Everyone will draw that line somewhere, but for many people anything bigger than the smartphone they're already carrying is something brought along deliberately.


----------



## slclick (Sep 7, 2021)

I look forward to Bryan C.'s review of the 100-400. If it passes his muster test, I'll snatch one up. The R6 is more than enough camera for me, so not looking at the R3.


----------



## blackcoffee17 (Sep 7, 2021)

DBounce said:


> Canon already admitted that the R5 and R6 will overheat. I think it would be a mistake for them not to clearly state that the overheating concerns are addressed in this camera, if indeed they are.
> For many, overheating is the elephant in the room.



Sure, they admitted it in the manual or maybe some interviews. But not in announcements or marketing materials.


----------



## DBounce (Sep 7, 2021)

twoheadedboy said:


> To be fair, it's not the same size as a 1DX or an R5 with a grip, it's smaller than that, based on the Fro Knows video from the other day.


Well being equally fair, the Sony A1 is smaller, matches the R3s’ 30fps, packs a 50MP sensor and shoots 8K… all without overheating! If Canon cannot tackle overheating in a camera with half the resolution and double the size, then the battle is already lost.


----------



## blackcoffee17 (Sep 7, 2021)

DBounce said:


> Well being equally fair, the Sony A1 is smaller, matches the R3s’ 30fps, packs a 50MP sensor and shoots 8K… all without overheating! If Canon cannot tackle overheating in a camera with half the resolution and double the size, then the battle is already lost.



Canon simply did a bad job with the R5's cooling. They probably rushed it to the market and underestimated the negative press. Of course, still sold a truckload of R5 bodies, so not a big problem.


----------



## Chig (Sep 7, 2021)

arbitrage said:


> Judging from these two screen grabs I took from Jared's R3 "unbox" and his R6 1yr in review videos it appears the R3 will be a little smaller (at least shorter) than a gripped R5/6. So that is good news to me. I'm thinking this thing must be 1DIV sized.
> 
> View attachment 200050
> 
> View attachment 200051


Jarod said it felt much lighter too!


----------



## DBounce (Sep 7, 2021)

Maybe the R3 is not being announced?

Given that Canon have made it clear that the R3 will not be the flagship, it’s interesting that they have named the event
​*BORN TO RULE*​
If it’s ruling, it must be a flagship. R1 anyone?


----------



## Cyborx (Sep 7, 2021)

Don’t worry, IT WILL BE EXPENSIVE! 
Canon knows best when it comes to overpricing gear. The R3 will be 6000 euro’s.


----------



## Cyborx (Sep 7, 2021)

I am still crying over the 24 megapixels…


----------



## Chig (Sep 7, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> 90% of ILCs being sold are APS-C.


Yes , which is why Canon shouldn't ignore the aps-c market with the RF mount . They have their excellent M mount cameras and EF aps-c but I think it would make sense to make a line of aps-c RF cameras and the simplest and cheapest way would be to adapt existing FF bodies such as:

R6 body and internals fitted with new aps-c sensor (preferably BSI stacked) to make an R7 and price it about 10-20% below the R6
RP body with same sensor for a compact model
This also means economies of scale for manufacturing with much longer production runs than the FF bodies on their own.
Canon needs to compete with the aps-c cameras from Sony,Nikon and Fujifilm
Fujifilm are rumoured to have a new high performance BSI stacked aps-c sensor coming soon too.


----------



## Chig (Sep 7, 2021)

Cyborx said:


> I am still crying over the 24 megapixels…


You're crying over an unconfirmed rumour ?


----------



## Cyborx (Sep 7, 2021)

Chig said:


> You're crying over an unconfirmed rumour ?


Yes! And I am unstoppable


----------



## rick2 (Sep 7, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> My guess was (and remains) $6200-6400. I won't complain if it's cheaper, of course. But given that they just bumped RF lens prices, given the chip shortages (whether or not chips were sourced before that, it's a reason to charge more), and given the target market, a price close to that of the 1D X III will not surprise me (nor will it deter me).


But what if it doesn't have animal eye AF?


----------



## [email protected] (Sep 7, 2021)

To those who were talking about switching systems being too much of a hassle and expense... that is true for people who don't shoot Canon EF mount. If you do shoot Canon EF, then there isn't another system that won't let you use all your lenses. I shot Sony and Panasonic for a combined 1.5-2 years using my Canon lenses. Moved to the S1R when Canon wouldn't give me the resolution I wanted. Moved to Sony when their bonkers tracking system came out and they fixed some things. Now the R5 has Canon running circles around them again, so I'm back. Had I started with any other lens mount, none of that would have been able to happen. The adapters got to be quite good (thanks to Sigma). 

For RF mount shooters, the resale value of the RF glass is about 90 percent of new, probably due to the fact that supply of new lenses is slow. 

I grant that not a lot of people take the plunge, but there is relatively little cost for taking your Canon EF lenses to another company's body.

All that said, I don't think the R3 will cause much switching. Not everyone's cup of tea, but there is quite little that the other brands are offering that Canon lacks.


----------



## twoheadedboy (Sep 7, 2021)

DBounce said:


> Well being equally fair, the Sony A1 is smaller, matches the R3s’ 30fps, packs a 50MP sensor and shoots 8K… all without overheating! If Canon cannot tackle overheating in a camera with half the resolution and double the size, then the battle is already lost.


I wasn't addressing the overheating concern or the price, which we don't know. We do know it is a smaller form factor, and we'll see on the rest.

However, Sony does not shoot 8K w/o overheating. As compared to a stock R5, it goes longer before needing a break, and cools faster, but it does overheat. The R5 at this point is more limited by the 30 min hard stop; you can avoid both that and overheating with a Ninja V+ attached to the R5, but it does not support the Sony A1.


----------



## jam05 (Sep 7, 2021)

Absolutely no reason to order from a large vendor unless there's no store in your area. They won't get shipments any sooner than small local ones, and the waiting list will be longer.


----------



## twoheadedboy (Sep 7, 2021)

blackcoffee17 said:


> Sure, they admitted it in the manual or maybe some interviews. But not in announcements or marketing materials.


Did Sony admit the A1 overheats at 8k in their announcements/marketing materials?


----------



## rick2 (Sep 7, 2021)

DBounce said:


> Well being equally fair, the Sony A1 is smaller, matches the R3s’ 30fps, packs a 50MP sensor and shoots 8K… all without overheating! If Canon cannot tackle overheating in a camera with half the resolution and double the size, then the battle is already lost.


I do agree the A1 beats the R3, but I've read lots of reports about the A1 overheating.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 7, 2021)

Chig said:


> Yes , which is why Canon shouldn't ignore the aps-c market with the RF mount . They have their excellent M mount cameras and EF aps-c but I think it would make sense to make a line of aps-c RF cameras…


Perhaps it does make sense. As I’ve said repeatedly, Canon has the data to know if it does, whereas we can only speculate and observe that it hasn’t made sense to Canon yet, else they’d have released an APS-C RF-mount camera in the three years since the EOS R line was introduced.



Chig said:


> Canon needs to compete with the aps-c cameras from Sony,Nikon and Fujifilm
> Fujifilm are rumoured to have a new high performance BSI stacked aps-c sensor coming soon too.


Maybe ‘needs to compete with’ means something different to you. Canon’s APS-C ILCs already outsell the other brands in Japan, and based on global numbers that is likely true everywhere.


----------



## slclick (Sep 7, 2021)

Cyborx said:


> I am still crying over the 24 megapixels…


because of valid reasons or because you drank the MP kool aid? The R6 and many 1D's and their fantastic images (in capable hands) would beg to differ.


----------



## slclick (Sep 7, 2021)

Cyborx said:


> Yes! And I am unstoppable


You can cry for hours?


----------



## slclick (Sep 7, 2021)

rick2 said:


> I do agree the A1 beats the R3, but I've read lots of reports about the A1 overheating.


Hardly apples to apples. Flagship vs 2nd tier, not to mention unreleased vs out. Not a very good comparison.


----------



## rick2 (Sep 7, 2021)

slclick said:


> Hardly apples to apples. Flagship vs 2nd tier, not to mention unreleased vs out. Not a very good comparison.


Yes but if the R3 comes in at the same price as the A1 it is a very good comparison. It is the perfect comparison actually. If not the a1 I'm not sure what you would compare the R3 to, a $3800 a9ii vs a $6000 R3?


----------



## FrenchFry (Sep 7, 2021)

DBounce said:


> Maybe the R3 is not being announced?
> View attachment 200068
> Given that Canon have made it clear that the R3 will not be the flagship, it interesting that they have named the event
> ​*BORN TO RULE*​
> If it’s ruling, it must be a flagship. R1 anyone?



I was getting some Tolkien vibes. Then I realized their marketing department was recycling old material. Apparently every camera is born to rule, so, not a huge endorsement.


----------



## FrenchFry (Sep 7, 2021)

I'm pleased to see that the Canon Asia event will feature a "veteran wildlife photographer" (his focus is birds). Hopefully this hints at improved animal eye-AF and (since I'm wishful thinking anyway) some new fast supertelephoto primes designed specifically for RF.


Some of his work can be seen here:








Nature Takes Flight: Discover with Bird Photography


Find great deals on the latest Canon products at Canon Singapore Online Store! Buy genuine Canon printers, camcorders, DSLR/mirrorless cameras, compact camera, lens and accessories. Seamless shopping, exclusive promos and free delivery.




shop.sg.canon




and here:




__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=520547429032406


----------



## unfocused (Sep 7, 2021)

rick2 said:


> I do agree the A1 beats the R3, but I've read lots of reports about the A1 overheating.


Amazing that you know that since I’m guessing you’ve never used the R3. You must be psychic.


----------



## unfocused (Sep 7, 2021)

FrenchFry said:


> I'm pleased to see that the Canon Asia event will feature a veteran wildlife photographer. Hopefully this hints at improved animal eye-AF and (since I'm wishful thinking anyway) some new fast supertelephoto primes designed specifically for RF.
> View attachment 200071


Yes the 400 and 600, plus the 100-500 zoom and maybe the 800 f11.


----------



## DBounce (Sep 7, 2021)

twoheadedboy said:


> I wasn't addressing the overheating concern or the price, which we don't know. We do know it is a smaller form factor, and we'll see on the rest.
> 
> However, Sony does not shoot 8K w/o overheating. As compared to a stock R5, it goes longer before needing a break, and cools faster, but it does overheat. The R5 at this point is more limited by the 30 min hard stop; you can avoid both that and overheating with a Ninja V+ attached to the R5, but it does not support the Sony A1.


Do you have a Sony A1? Virtually all the reviews I’ve seen say it’s pretty much good to record indefinitely with the battery and memory cards being the limiting factor. And that’s all in camera at 8K resolution.


----------



## DBounce (Sep 7, 2021)

FrenchFry said:


> I was getting some Tolkien vibes. Then I realized their marketing department was recycling old material. Apparently every camera is born to rule, so, not a huge endorsement.
> 
> 
> View attachment 200072


I don’t know, I’d rather the slogan be:

*BORN TO SERVE*

In any case, I’m excited to see this camera.


----------



## unfocused (Sep 8, 2021)

[email protected] said:


> To those who were talking about switching systems being too much of a hassle and expense... that is true for people who don't shoot Canon EF mount. If you do shoot Canon EF, then there isn't another system that won't let you use all your lenses. I shot Sony and Panasonic for a combined 1.5-2 years using my Canon lenses. Moved to the S1R when Canon wouldn't give me the resolution I wanted. Moved to Sony when their bonkers tracking system came out and they fixed some things. Now the R5 has Canon running circles around them again, so I'm back. Had I started with any other lens mount, none of that would have been able to happen. The adapters got to be quite good (thanks to Sigma).
> 
> For RF mount shooters, the resale value of the RF glass is about 90 percent of new, probably due to the fact that supply of new lenses is slow.
> 
> ...


There is more to switching systems than compatibility. I know what to expect with Canon. I have no interest in learning about another brand and I know that switching systems isn’t going to make me a better photographer.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 8, 2021)

[email protected] said:


> To those who were talking about switching systems being too much of a hassle and expense... that is true for people who don't shoot Canon EF mount. If you do shoot Canon EF, then there isn't another system that won't let you use all your lenses.


Will my 7 Canon flashes work on other systems? Do Sony or Panasonic even have something with the functionality of my MT-24 EX macro twin flash, which is pretty much a necessity with the MP-E 65 (regardless of what body it’s on)?


----------



## David - Sydney (Sep 8, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> ^^ This.
> 
> There are a (relative) few people who switch systems from time to time or run multiple systems. Sometimes agencies switch, but that's a financial decision with the change forced on photographers (and not welcomed by most, because really who likes change being forced on them?).
> 
> Most people stay in-brand.


That is true - especially for the majority of participants in this forum - including me. That said, the switch to RF is similar to when Sony first introduced their alpha series supporting adapted EF lenses. There will always be a personal tipping point for when to switch and a large number of users did switch to Sony full frame years ago.

I personally know of many landscapers who were amazed at the sensor DR and was willing to put up with adapter issues and sell their Canon bodies. Those togs are still with Sony and haven't gone back to Canon/R5 as they - over time - invested in native Sony glass and now the cost to switch for them back to Canon isn't over their tipping point. Many of them are now Sony ambassadors.

For me, the switch to R5/RF lens was a year long process buying/selling with a lot of investment. I stayed with Canon due to weather resistance, ergonomics, native EF glass and innovative RF glass. Include a new underwater housing system then the tipping point to switch would have been lower. A Nauticam R5 housing is USD4k plus ports/dome/arms/strobes etc. Ikelite is only USD1700


----------



## HotPixels (Sep 8, 2021)

Atlasman said:


> This competiton matters more to the consumer. The R3 points directly at the A9 series—and that's why there should be an A9III.


As near points out, this is hardly a standard consumer camera. Most who will buy it are pro's or dedicated enthusiasts, probably heavily invested in one system.

But there is no A9III...and there likely won't be for a while. That's a really far out rumor; probably someone started it to just mess with Canon and give some people these fantasies of what could be coming...maybe to even keep a few Sony users from switching.

In reality we have the a9III...it's called the A1. That's the logical successor. Sony calls it the A1 as a marketing tactic, and to allow for a big price jump.

We don't even know if Sony will continue the a9 series. Maybe they just continue with the A1 series.


twoheadedboy said:


> Did Sony admit the A1 overheats at 8k in their announcements/marketing materials?


The Sony A1 does overheat in some video use cases...

"I noticed the A1 gets warm basic shooting and video in about 10 minutes of use.

To test further, a simple indoor side to side test on 4K HS 24p 100mbps 4:2:2 10bit against A7s III. After about 22 minutes, the A1 was very warm almost hot (no warning yet but I stopped the recording). The A7s III was cool with no issues."

Read the thread: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4578842

BTW the A1 also gets less battery life than other Sony's for obvious reasons. And there are a lot of caveats as to its 30 fps...it only works on certain lenses.

The Sony A1 is not some perfect camera. It's been hyped that way from Sony marketing and they've been effective. And the Sony trolls have been working hard at convincing everyone that MP is the sole determinant of a camera's quality.

My guess is that the R3 will outperform the A1 on all factors with the possible exception of the top line resolution.


----------



## Chig (Sep 8, 2021)

rick2 said:


> I do agree the A1 beats the R3, but I've read lots of reports about the A1 overheating.


What makes you say the A1 beats the R3 ?
We still don't know all the specs including resolution and no one has reviewed it let alone compared it to the A1


----------



## dolina (Sep 8, 2021)

On the same day as the iPhone/Watch event.

I'm sure those who want an R3 will get an R3


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 8, 2021)

dolina said:


> On the same day as the iPhone/Watch event.
> 
> I'm sure those who want an R3 will get an R3


Works for me! We’re an Apple household (7 Macs, 5 iPads, 4 iPhones, 2 Apple Watches) but I’m not an Apple early adopter.


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## canonmike (Sep 8, 2021)

unfocused said:


> There is more to switching systems than compatibility. I know what to expect with Canon. I have no interest in learning about another brand and I know that switching systems isn’t going to make me a better photographer.


I so agree with the last statement. Personally, I would only change systems if I knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that such a system change would absolutely make me a better photographer and help me to overwhelmingly make better photos. It doesn't really matter to me whether most find the Canon or the Sony system to be better. I only care whether my Canon gear works for me, which it has since the early 90's, at which time I changed from Minolta, after twenty yrs in their camp. Is Sony gear sometimes better or more capable than my personal Canon gear? Quite possibly but that doesn't change how much I have enjoyed shooting Canon all these years. I have no problem with people who love their Sony gear. Good for you. If we follow many of the posts here on CR, it's very obvious that a few of them have a presence in both systems, with great results. I have no need to brag about my Canon gear being superior, nor do I have any compulsion to point out the faults thereof or dismiss Sony's offerings, which are obviously quite capable. While my Canon gear may not be perfect, it's perfect for me, works for me and I just don't want to have to learn or invest in a new system, again. If we are honest with ourselves, one will have to admit that Sony's constant improvement with their mirrorless offerings, their successful cameras and ever increasing sales of same, directly caused Canon to re-evaluate their business model, IMHO and is arguably why we are able to now buy R5/6's and more. I am so glad to be the recipient of all this great tech being produced by all Mfgs. I just love it.


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## DBounce (Sep 8, 2021)

dolina said:


> On the same day as the iPhone/Watch event.
> 
> I'm sure those who want an R3 will get an R3


Yes, awesome way to make certain no one hears about your new camera launch. A case of tragic timing.


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## HotPixels (Sep 8, 2021)

Chig said:


> What makes you say the A1 beats the R3 ?
> We still don't know all the specs including resolution and no one has reviewed it let alone compared it to the A1


Well I would say that the R3 will last far longer than an A1, especially if one uses it in tough environmental conditions. If you want something to hold up, choose the Canon. 

And if you've ever used a Sony, the menu's are a nightmare, even the new menus. They just don't get usability. 

Here's an example. Let's say you want to use the feature to have the shutter cover the sensor when you turn the camera off and change lenses. On the Canon you simply turn the feature on. On the Sony, you can't just do that. You have to take it out of electronic shutter mode, and back into mechanical shutter mode, and then turn the feature on. Keep in mind this is a camera pretty much designed to be used in e shutter. And there's nothing in the menu to alert you to that. It's a minor point, but when you amplify that by many tiny unfriendly design decisions, then it matters.


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## unfocused (Sep 8, 2021)

DBounce said:


> Yes, awesome way to make certain no one hears about your new camera launch. A case of tragic timing.


Huh? Does anybody care about iPhone/Watches anymore? Certainly not anyone in the market for an R3.


----------



## HotPixels (Sep 8, 2021)

DBounce said:


> Yes, awesome way to make certain no one hears about your new camera launch. A case of tragic timing.


Why? These are two very different products and markets. It's absurd to think one subtracts from the other. 

I want to watch both events online and I will. It's not like our brains can't handle two announcements in one day.

I actually think the two launches on one day makes both announcements more exciting.


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## GoldWing (Sep 8, 2021)

Another 20 something MP camera..... guess they didn't hear about the Z9


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 8, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> Another 20 something MP camera..... guess they didn't hear about the Z9


Guess you’ve never heard of competitive intelligence. I’m sure a small number of key folks at Canon knew the pertinent details about the Z9 before many people within Nikon.

Nikon’s market share has been dropping substantially. So more likely, Canon isn’t really worried about competition from the Z9.


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## reef58 (Sep 8, 2021)

canonmike said:


> Yes, neuroanatomist, we know you're committed to buying the R3, no matter the cost. You've made that quite clear in many of your posts. It's your money and that's your prerogative. You are a perfect Canon buyer and they, no doubt love you. Some of the rest of us however, have a ceiling, whatever that might be, once exceeded, that may cause us to just say no thanks. There are many people out there that are perfectly willing to pay over MSRP for a new car, just so they can be the first car enthusiast to own one and that's okay. I just don't happen to be one of them. There are many good arguments for both viewpoints. It's all in one's perspective, wants, needs, budgetary constraints, if any, etc. By gosh, if you want to buy the camera for me, I'll take it, no matter the cost. Since, however, that's not going to happen and I will have to take out my own bill fold to pay for it, I may just be a little more selective before pulling out the plastic from MY billfold. In any case, good luck with your new R3 purchase and I hope you don't have to wait long to get it, once announced and pre-orders become available from your merchant of choice. I've always had great respect for the first adopters that step up to the plate and break ground for the rest of us. Personally, I'm tired of all the dangling carrots. Just show me the baby, whatever the MP's, whatever the price, whatever the whatever.


That is why they make many models of cameras from $1000 to almost $7000. A model to suit every budget.


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## DBounce (Sep 8, 2021)

unfocused said:


> Huh? Does anybody care about iPhone/Watches anymore? Certainly not anyone in the market for an R3.


So you think no potential R3 owners have iPhones or Apple watches?


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## HotPixels (Sep 8, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> Another 20 something MP camera..... guess they didn't hear about the Z9





neuroanatomist said:


> Guess you’ve never heard of competitive intelligence. I’m sure a small number of key folks at Canon knew the pertinent details about the Z9 before many people within Nikon.
> 
> Nikon’s market share has been dropping substantially. So more likely, Canon isn’t really worried about competition from the Z9.


And Nikon's drop in market share almost perfectly matches the gains by Sony. So Nikon needs to be more concerned with Sony than any other competitor. 

I do agree that the Z9 is likely to be better than the Sony A1.


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## unfocused (Sep 8, 2021)

DBounce said:


> So you think no potential R3 owners have iPhones or Apple watches?


No, I think most people, whether they are potential R3 owners or not, don't care about the miniscule differences that a new iPhone or Apple watch will have over the previous 10 versions.


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## HenryL (Sep 8, 2021)

DBounce said:


> Yes, awesome way to make certain no one hears about your new camera launch. A case of tragic timing.


Yes, tragic. Or...you can watch both since Canon's event starts 5 hours before Apple's.


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## HotPixels (Sep 8, 2021)

DBounce said:


> So you think no potential R3 owners have iPhones or Apple watches?


I would expect that many potential R3 owners use Apple products since they appreciate quality brands! 

And good news...one can watch both events...or read about both...our brains are pretty big and can do that sort of wizardry!


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## SonicStudios (Sep 8, 2021)

With all the electronic shortages, wonder how long it will take for the R3 to go to partner distribution. Most of the RF lens seem like their in a year long cycle of coming soon or on back order


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## rick2 (Sep 8, 2021)

jam05 said:


> Absolutely no reason to order from a large vendor unless there's no store in your area. They won't get shipments any sooner than small local ones, and the waiting list will be longer.


There absolutely is. When you use the B&H payboo card and order from B&H you don't pay tax. That's almost a $500 savings on a $6500 camera.


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## DBounce (Sep 8, 2021)

HotPixels said:


> I would expect that many potential R3 owners use Apple products since they appreciate quality brands!
> 
> And good news...one can watch both events...or read about both...our brains are pretty big and can do that sort of wizardry!


While I like Canon cameras, they are not a luxury brand like Apple. I think the equivalent to Apple in the camera world would be Leica.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 8, 2021)

DBounce said:


> While I like Canon cameras, they are not a luxury brand like Apple. I think the equivalent to Apple in the camera world would be Leica.


I find that when spec’ing out a Lenovo that’s equivalent to a Mac, the price is about the same. The difference is that you can’t get a Mac that’s bulky, slow and cheap.


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## masterpix (Sep 8, 2021)

unfocused said:


> When did Canon announce the sensor resolution of the R1? I missed that.


They did not, but since the DX1 were about 20MP and for the task they are build for it is the reasonable MP size, the R3 can not be in that range, it has, commercially, and since it was not declared to be 'flagship", somewhat higher. Physical aspects of data transfer rates gussets the upper limit of the sensor. It is as accurate as the "leaked" image size (which was done on purpose if you ask me)


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## David - Sydney (Sep 8, 2021)

HotPixels said:


> The Sony A1 does overheat in some video use cases...
> "I noticed the A1 gets warm basic shooting and video in about 10 minutes of use.
> To test further, a simple indoor side to side test on 4K HS 24p 100mbps 4:2:2 10bit against A7s III. After about 22 minutes, the A1 was very warm almost hot (no warning yet but I stopped the recording). The A7s III was cool with no issues."
> Read the thread: https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4578842


A fascinating thread!
"After about 22 minutes, the A1 was very warm almost hot (no warning yet"
"If it's anything like other Sony cameras, you can reduce the temperature warning sensitivity in the menu and film for much longer. *Sony is very conservative*."
"I soon noticed the heat after moderately heavy use (30fps stills). The LCD got so warm once, it was uncomfortable to hold my nose against it while using the EVF (left eye)"
"Notes when [Auto Pwr OFF Temp.] is set to [High]
- Do not shoot while holding the camera in your hand. Use a tripod.
-Using the camera while holding it in your hand for a long period of time may cause low-temperature burns"
"The machine shut off after 13 minutes recording 4K 60P 100M 10bit 422 with Auto Power OFF Temp sets to Standard"
"10 minutes in 4k in Standard temp shutdown and 30 minutes 4k High temp shutdown. According to the official guide from Sony above"
"I just got my A1 this week. When shooting only photos, no video at all, the body gets extremely hot. It's objectively very hot. I'm shooting on low mode, so no 30 FPS buffer-filling bursts. It shouldn't get that hot in just a half hour of shooting... indoors, maybe 75 degrees max, shooting theatre."

But perhaps it has improved...
"I am happy to report that the new firmware 1.10 has made a huge improvement in the heating issue."


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## Chig (Sep 8, 2021)

masterpix said:


> They did not, but since the DX1 were about 20MP and for the task they are build for it is the reasonable MP size, the R3 can not be in that range, it has, commercially, and since it was not declared to be 'flagship", somewhat higher. Physical aspects of data transfer rates gussets the upper limit of the sensor. It is as accurate as the "leaked" image size (which was done on purpose if you ask me)


Strange thinking , why does it follow that the R1 would be any different resolution to the R3 ?
Both bodies are likely to be high speed action cameras like the 1DX line.
The R3 is definitely a sports / action camera and is _rumoured to be 24mp_ . Just because Canon doesn't consider the R3 to be their flagship model that doesn't imply that the R1 will be higher resolution.
Canon always has sports/action cameras as their flagships .

You seem to be using wishful thinking because you're obsessed with the idea of Canon making another high resolution camera .

We'll know about the _R3's actual resolution_ next week and we'll have to wait until the R1 is announced to see what Canon chooses for it's specs , I predict in about 3 years time in Paris.


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## unfocused (Sep 8, 2021)

masterpix said:


> They did not, but since the DX1 were about 20MP and for the task they are build for it is the reasonable MP size, the R3 can not be in that range, it has, commercially, and since it was not declared to be 'flagship", somewhat higher. Physical aspects of data transfer rates gussets the upper limit of the sensor. It is as accurate as the "leaked" image size (which was done on purpose if you ask me)


Assuming that the sensor size of an R1 has to be similar to the sensor size of the 1Dx series seems risky to me. The R3 is slotted in the same niche (sports/action) as the 1 series DSLRs. Duplicating that same niche in the R1 would require that the niche is large enough to require two different bodies that accomplish essentially the same thing. 

If we are into predictions, a safer bet might be to look to the Nikon Z9. Canon and Nikon consistently mirror one another in their flagship cameras. Since the Nikon flagship mirrorless Z9 is expected to be a 45mp stacked sensor, we might guess that Canon will match or exceed the Z9's resolution.


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## Cyborx (Sep 8, 2021)

slclick said:


> You can cry for hours?


For months apparently… and if Canon does not deliver a 45 mpix pro body with inbuilt battery grip very soon, I might need a tear-donor ASAP.


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## Cyborx (Sep 8, 2021)

HotPixels said:


> As near points out, this is hardly a standard consumer camera. Most who will buy it are pro's or dedicated enthusiasts, probably heavily invested in one system.
> 
> But there is no A9III...and there likely won't be for a while. That's a really far out rumor; probably someone started it to just mess with Canon and give some people these fantasies of what could be coming...maybe to even keep a few Sony users from switching.
> 
> ...


Just another day at the office for this Canon rep. Dude, the R3 is HALF the resolution of the A1…. You are making a complete fool of yourself here. Making a flagship camera with only 24mpix in 2021 is a mistake. And sales will tell.


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## blackcoffee17 (Sep 8, 2021)

twoheadedboy said:


> Did Sony admit the A1 overheats at 8k in their announcements/marketing materials?



I have not heard any problems with overheating on the A1, Seen tests comparing the 8K shooting to R5 and the A1 could record for 1.5 hours continuously and only shut down because the battery ran out or the memory card was full. The R5 could not record more than 25-30 minutes.


----------



## koenkooi (Sep 8, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> Will my 7 Canon flashes work on other systems? Do Sony or Panasonic even have something with the functionality of my MT-24 EX macro twin flash, which is pretty much a necessity with the MP-E 65 (regardless of what body it’s on)?


Meike and Yongnuo have twin light flashes for multiple systems. I've been keeping an eye on this since my MT-24EX was bought about 10 years ago, used. The MT-26EX looks like a nice improvement, but it's like 3-4x of what I paid for the MT-24EX :/


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## Kit Chan (Sep 8, 2021)

Inb4 all they announce is a replacement for the EOS Ra.


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## Skux (Sep 8, 2021)

This is the R1 in all but name. Prepare your wallets for another $6500+ juggernaut.


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## David_D (Sep 8, 2021)

On the 14th, or soon after, I will be [pre-]ordering either an R3 or R5 (depending what is announced) so I wondered if there is any news on: 
Canon instant rebates coming to EOS R cameras and lenses in September​








Canon instant rebates coming to EOS R cameras and lenses in September #EOSR5 #EOSR6


I have been told to expect an instant rebate program on EOS R and RF glass starting in September in both Canada and the United States. I do not know what other



www.canonrumors.com




Would be good to save a little money


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## kaihp (Sep 8, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> Perhaps it does make sense. As I’ve said repeatedly, Canon has the data to know if it does, whereas we can only speculate and observe that it hasn’t made sense to Canon yet, else they’d have released an APS-C RF-mount camera in the three years since the EOS R line was introduced.



It is not uncommon to attack a (new) market from the top down, where you get the most gross margin for your products, and then move "down" to the higher volume and lower margin products. Bottom-up is another stalwart strategy, used by e.g. Honda and others when they entered the US market for motorcycles and cars.

My speculation would be then that Canon could be deliberately following this strategy. As I see it, the whole RF system is designed to lift the quality and value over the EF system, so a "top-down" strategy would make sense.



DBounce said:


> Yes, awesome way to make certain no one hears about your new camera launch. A case of tragic timing.


Apple had a 15% market share of smartphones in Q2. So still a majority would be not distrated by fruits.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 8, 2021)

kaihp said:


> It is not uncommon to attack a (new) market from the top down, where you get the most gross margin for your products, and then move "down" to the higher volume and lower margin products. Bottom-up is another stalwart strategy, used by e.g. Honda and others when they entered the US market for motorcycles and cars.
> 
> My speculation would be then that Canon could be deliberately following this strategy. As I see it, the whole RF system is designed to lift the quality and value over the EF system, so a "top-down" strategy would make sense.


The EOS M was a ‘bottom up’ strategy that started back in 2012.


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## kaihp (Sep 8, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> The EOS M was a ‘bottom up’ strategy that started back in 2012.


Absolutely. But that was an APS-C sensor design (read: low cost) so a bottom-up strategy makes sense to me.


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## DBounce (Sep 8, 2021)

kaihp said:


> It is not uncommon to attack a (new) market from the top down, where you get the most gross margin for your products, and then move "down" to the higher volume and lower margin products. Bottom-up is another stalwart strategy, used by e.g. Honda and others when they entered the US market for motorcycles and cars.
> 
> My speculation would be then that Canon could be deliberately following this strategy. As I see it, the whole RF system is designed to lift the quality and value over the EF system, so a "top-down" strategy would make sense.
> 
> ...


In Europe Apple holds 30% of the smartphone market. In the USA Apple accounts for 53% of smartphone sales. Whereas, that number increases to 66% in Japan… where Canon is based. Generally, you do not want any big news breaking on the day you are officially launching a new product. You want a slow news day to get maximum coverage.

Worst still, people with iPhones tend to earn more money than those with Android phones, because there are some very affordable Android devices… Not so much the case for Apple. This means there’s a good chance that a nice portion of high end camera buyers likely also own an iPhone. As you may know, some people follow Apple like it’s a cult.


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## reef58 (Sep 8, 2021)

koenkooi said:


> Meike and Yongnuo have twin light flashes for multiple systems. I've been keeping an eye on this since my MT-24EX was bought about 10 years ago, used. The MT-26EX looks like a nice improvement, but it's like 3-4x of what I paid for the MT-24EX :/


I tired the Yongnuo it was not reliable. It was about 3 or 4 years ago, so maybe they have gotten better. I would not do a wedding with one myself. I would be scared of a failure. At times it would just refuse to fire while the 580 and 600 Canon went on without a miss.


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## twoheadedboy (Sep 8, 2021)

blackcoffee17 said:


> I have not heard any problems with overheating on the A1, Seen tests comparing the 8K shooting to R5 and the A1 could record for 1.5 hours continuously and only shut down because the battery ran out or the memory card was full. The R5 could not record more than 25-30 minutes.


Not what dpreview said.









Sony a1 review


The Sony Alpha 1 is Sony's flagship mirrorless camera for, well, just about anything. With a 50MP sensor, it gives you tons of resolution, but it also lets you fire off burst images at 30 fps for fast action sports. Add in 8K video capture and you have a really impressive package.




www.dpreview.com





"The basic gist regarding overheating is that, at least in room temperature, there's not much to worry about. The camera easily recorded over an hour of 8K/24p video before overheating, and after a 15-minute cooldown, did it again. If you want slow motion capture, Jordan tested almost 30 minutes of recording at 4K/120p, and after a 15-minute cooldown, got 25 minutes of recording."


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## masterpix (Sep 8, 2021)

Chig said:


> Strange thinking , why does it follow that the R1 would be any different resolution to the R3 ?
> Both bodies are likely to be high speed action cameras like the 1DX line.
> The R3 is definitely a sports / action camera and is _rumoured to be 24mp_ . Just because Canon doesn't consider the R3 to be their flagship model that doesn't imply that the R1 will be higher resolution.
> Canon always has sports/action cameras as their flagships .
> ...


Why strange, if the R3 and and R1 have the same sensor, the sales of one of the cameras will drop and no one will buy it. Just think about it, you have two product, doing about the same thing, one in 6000$ and one is 5000$ who will buy the 6000$ one? To sell both you have to make a difference between them, a difference "big enough" to make someone prefer one over the other. 

Thanks for your educated observation about my "obsession" but you are quite mistaken in your observation. My wishful thinking is about a camera that can maintain focus on fast objects that change their motion vectors often, such as birds and insects. Give me an excellent focus on a honey bird hovering in 10MP rather than a 50MP blurred image.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 8, 2021)

kaihp said:


> Absolutely. But that was an APS-C sensor design (read: low cost) so a bottom-up strategy makes sense to me.


Canon’s FF MILC path started with the EOS R at $2300, then 5 months later the RP which is the low-cost entry at $1299, then over a year later the R5/R6. That doesn’t seem ‘top down’.


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## Toglife_Anthony (Sep 8, 2021)

My random thoughts for the day...

1) Folks are putting too much credence on Canon's words of the R3 not being a flagship. They also said the R5 wasn't a replacement to the 5D4 yet there's been zero chatter about a 5D5, and likely won't be one. Canon still has 1DX3's to sell, they're not stupid, and they don't know the success (or failure) of the R3. I'll say it here, if the R3 is a huge success amongst the 1DX community, an R1 will not be rushed out in any sort of hurry whatsoever.

2) Canon's batting average is not 1.000. Just because Canon makes a decision on something doesn't mean they're going to knock it out the park. This notion that because a decision was made means there's data to back up it's success is foolish. Data helps make a calculated decision but there's no way to know if something will achieve maximum success until...well...until the product hits the market and actual sales metrics can be analyzed.

3) Canon, to some degree, is swayed by the market and what the likes of Sony are doing. We likely wouldn't have seen the EOS R when we did if Sony (and the mirrorless market) wasn't taking a meaningful chunk of the marketshare. Yes, Canon doesn't immediately respond to the market and customer the way Sony does, but let's not pretend Canon is in their own world doing what they deem appropriate regardless of what's going on around them.

4) Speaking of Sony, people need to understand that Canon can't afford to take the risks that Sony does. Canon is a brand known for it's reliability, durability, and function. Sony, until recently, wasn't a camera-world juggernaut (market share clearly tells this story); they're in a much better position to constantly change their products, try new things, and give their loudest customers what they're asking for because if a product fails, it won't be a major PR loss for them. Imagine Canon being experimental with a 1DX3 and it falling on its face at the Olympics, that would be devastating for a company like Canon.

Ahhh, I feel better now. Back to work :-D

P.S. It's fine if you don't agree, these are just my thoughts anyway. ;-)


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## kaihp (Sep 8, 2021)

DBounce said:


> As you may know, some people follow Apple like it’s a cult.


Fixed that for you


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## unfocused (Sep 8, 2021)

Toglife_Anthony said:


> My random thoughts for the day...
> 
> 1) Folks are putting too much credence on Canon's words of the R3 not being a flagship. They also said the R5 wasn't a replacement to the 5D4 yet there's been zero chatter about a 5D5, and likely won't be one. Canon still has 1DX3's to sell, they're not stupid, and they don't know the success (or failure) of the R3. I'll say it here, if the R3 is a huge success amongst the 1DX community, an R1 will not be rushed out in any sort of hurry whatsoever.


I agree with all your points. On the R1, I also believe that Canon is in no rush. In fact, other than dual CFExpress card slots, I'm not even sure what Canon might add to an R1 to distinguish it from the R3 and justify a higher price. It seems that with the 1DxIII and the R3 (if it delivers as promised) Canon has the sports and photojournalism market very well covered. 

For me, that raises the question of what niche would an R1 target. An R1 might be compared to a Leica. Built to professional standards, but actually marketed to enthusiasts who are willing to spend top dollar to have the best camera Canon makes. To further argue this, I look at the traditional market for the 1series bodies and there is no doubt that the professional market is shrinking fast and those that remain are being squeezed financially, making a lower cost R3 more appealing. 

That means we can throw out all the old assumptions about the 1 series and possibly see specifications that will appeal to high income buyers more than professionals (such as a 45+ mp sensor). 

It's also possible that with the R3 and 1Dx III available, Canon would like to get back on the four-year schedule for the 1 series, pushing a development announcement out to 2023 and actual release early in 2024. This would also give them time to perfect any new technologies that could separate the R1 from the R3. That might mean that the R3 will be a one and done series. 

Canon does seem to be on an aggressive development cycle for the R series, building out their lens selection by replacing EF lenses with RF counterparts and adding new RF lenses at a rapid pace. They already offer more R bodies than they ever had in full frame DSLRs, with more rumored to be on the way. I'm guessing that the other rumored R bodies (low cost or high megapixel) offer greater return on investment than an R1.


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## twoheadedboy (Sep 8, 2021)

unfocused said:


> I agree with all your points. On the R1, I also believe that Canon is in no rush. In fact, other than dual CFExpress card slots, I'm not even sure what Canon might add to an R1 to distinguish it from the R3 and justify a higher price. It seems that with the 1DxIII and the R3 (if it delivers as promised) Canon has the sports and photojournalism market very well covered.
> 
> For me, that raises the question of what niche would an R1 target. An R1 might be compared to a Leica. Built to professional standards, but actually marketed to enthusiasts who are willing to spend top dollar to have the best camera Canon makes. To further argue this, I look at the traditional market for the 1series bodies and there is no doubt that the professional market is shrinking fast and those that remain are being squeezed financially, making a lower cost R3 more appealing.
> 
> ...


An R1 which is the form factor of the 1DX would get more shots per charge, to start. Global shutter would be a differentiator. Quad pixel AF another. If the R3 is getting effectively the same IBIS as the R5, Canon's v.2 IBIS. R3's eye control v.2. Increased processing power for crunching through high-res video, as well as photo processing to make the cache effectively limitless. There's a lot an R1 could have.


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## FrenchFry (Sep 8, 2021)

Curious is anyone has seen anything about the September 14th announcement from Canon USA yet? Possibly something not taking place at 3am?


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## Hector1970 (Sep 8, 2021)

Toglife_Anthony said:


> My random thoughts for the day...
> 
> 1) Folks are putting too much credence on Canon's words of the R3 not being a flagship. They also said the R5 wasn't a replacement to the 5D4 yet there's been zero chatter about a 5D5, and likely won't be one. Canon still has 1DX3's to sell, they're not stupid, and they don't know the success (or failure) of the R3. I'll say it here, if the R3 is a huge success amongst the 1DX community, an R1 will not be rushed out in any sort of hurry whatsoever.
> 
> ...


A well written piece Anthony. I'd agree with most of what you say but I personally do find the R3 an odd move by Canon.
I can't see Canon rushing out an R1 soon and find it odd in the sense that at least in my opinion the Sony A1 is the best full frame camera (mirrored or mirrorless). It appears both reliable and durable and users and reviewers are extremely happy with it.s performance and focusing abilities. It's unusual for Canon to surrender that position and it could be a long time before they regain it. The R1 may not exceed it and Sony may up the ante too. It wasn't a strategy that Canon adopted up to the 1DXIII. It maybe Canon were caught off guard by the progress Sony made and how far Sony were going to push the A1. Hence probably the naming, they wanted to avoid comparison the A1. Did they spend years developing to make the second best camera in the full frame department? A number of prominent press agencies have switched to Sony. I would have thought that would be a very expensive switch and a big decision to move brands on that scale. It's a competitive area, I'm sure the agencies play one off the other. I hope the R3 is impressive in the field, escpecially in terms of focusing and tracking.


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## bernie_king (Sep 9, 2021)

Hector1970 said:


> A well written piece Anthony. I'd agree with most of what you say but I personally do find the R3 an odd move by Canon.
> I can't see Canon rushing out an R1 soon and find it odd in the sense that at least in my opinion the Sony A1 is the best full frame camera (mirrored or mirrorless). It appears both reliable and durable and users and reviewers are extremely happy with it.s performance and focusing abilities. It's unusual for Canon to surrender that position and it could be a long time before they regain it. The R1 may not exceed it and Sony may up the ante too. It wasn't a strategy that Canon adopted up to the 1DXIII. It maybe Canon were caught off guard by the progress Sony made and how far Sony were going to push the A1. Hence probably the naming, they wanted to avoid comparison the A1. Did they spend years developing to make the second best camera in the full frame department? A number of prominent press agencies have switched to Sony. I would have thought that would be a very expensive switch and a big decision to move brands on that scale. It's a competitive area, I'm sure the agencies play one off the other. I hope the R3 is impressive in the field, escpecially in terms of focusing and tracking.


I agree that the R3 is an odd move, but at the same time it may be a move to shore up the lower end of the professional market. We're talking wedding photographers, entry level sports shooters, freelance photojournalists, etc... that might not be able to justify the 7k that they're getting ready to charge for the R1, but could afford the jump to the R3. I feel like it's been a hole in the Canon lineup for some time. For most part that range was (poorly) served with the 5D IV or used 1 Series cameras from the previous generation. 

As far as the agencies undergoing high costs to move to Sony, I would say it's unlikely. Sony likely either gave them severely discounted equipment or even paid them to make the change. In the end, it would be cheap marketing. I believe that those large agencies that switched did it for purely economic reasons more than any technical advantage the A1 may have had. The bean counters don't have to use the cameras, just manage their budgets.


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## SonicStudios (Sep 9, 2021)

Ah this just got interesting, Canon to acquire chip manufacture, Redlen out of Canada.


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## kaihp (Sep 9, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> Canon’s FF MILC path started with the EOS R at $2300, then 5 months later the RP which is the low-cost entry at $1299, then over a year later the R5/R6. That doesn’t seem ‘top down’.


Right. I forgot about razed the R & RP from my mind the moment I tried them in a shop. So bottom-up with RP/R -> R6/R5 -> R3 -> R1(?). Conservative as ever.


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## Cyborx (Sep 9, 2021)

Skux said:


> This is the R1 in all but name. Prepare your wallets for another $6500+ juggernaut.



Exactly. They named it R3 after Sony launched the A1 because the R3 fell (extremely) short on mpix.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 9, 2021)

Cyborx said:


> Exactly. They named it R3 after Sony launched the A1 because the R3 fell (extremely) short on mpix.


Right, because if you repeat something a few times it becomes true. Lol.


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## Cyborx (Sep 9, 2021)

You know what? I am going to drop a little bomb here..
I think that Canon actually might consider competitive pricing on the R3.

R6 costs 2500 euro's, R5 costs 4500 euro's .. I seriously think Canon will make the R3 around 4900 euro's.
Why? Because of the enormous fuss and negative vibe around the 24 mpix. This competitive pricing is an insurance that people will actually buy this camera.
And marketing wise also a good idea, because once you've got the camera, you're eventually going buy the (RF)lenses. 

So... Two scenarios:

1. Canon listens to the market (=people like us*) and applies a reasonable price somewere between 4000 - 4999,- euro's.
2. Canon won't listen to anyone, says **** them and puts on a Canon pricetag ... 5999,- euro's or even more.

This 1000-2000 euro's will make a huge difference, I might even consider buying one or two if the price is ok.
Makes me feel less sick if I have to sell these camera's after a year or two, when the real 'flagship' comes out. 


Canon has made it difficult for themselves now, if the price is high, as we know from Canon, they might risk a massive hate-campaign.
First the 24 mpix debate, now the pricing gone (stays) crazy.. what to like about Canon anymore?

They themselves stated the R3 is NOT ... I repeat: THE R3 IS NOT THE FLAGSHIP CAMERA.
So that means the pricing will not be flagship either. We'll see...

3999 euro's is a good price for a non flagship.
If they do this, I will buy two and trade all my EF lenses for RF.
And I will definitely not be the only one.

.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 9, 2021)

Cyborx said:


> Why? Because of the enormous fuss and negative vibe around the 24 mpix.


Remember the enormous fuss and negative vibe around Canon's 'poor DR'? Didn't affect Canon's sales. Internet forums ≠ reality.


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## Cyborx (Sep 9, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> Remember the enormous fuss and negative vibe around Canon's 'poor DR'? Didn't affect Canon's sales. Internet forums ≠ reality.



You post too Much on here!!


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## dboris (Sep 9, 2021)

If it's 4000$, I guess no one will be able to buy it for the next 12 months.
So it would be dumb of they, since they can milk out 2000$ more of profit.
They don't have unlimited inventory.
Like apple, canon must raise the prices to match it's production capabilities, with actual lower supply of components, and consummer demand .


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## bernie_king (Sep 9, 2021)

Cyborx said:


> You know what? I am going to drop a little bomb here..
> I think that Canon actually might consider competitive pricing on the R3.
> 
> R6 costs 2500 euro's, R5 costs 4500 euro's .. I seriously think Canon will make the R3 around 4900 euro's.
> ...


The pricing will be competitive for a camera with the capabilities of the R3. $4000/4000 Euros is too cheap. It won't happen. Do you really expect the price difference to an R5 to be only a couple of hundred? 24mp isn't that big of a disability if this camera does everything else massively better. People are way too hung up on the possible 24mp resolution of this camera. It will be at least 1000 more than the R5. I don't expect it to be over 5500, but it will definitely be a more capable camera than the R5 in every way except perhaps resolution. For that, get an R5 as a 2nd body.


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## Atlasman (Sep 9, 2021)

bernie_king said:


> The pricing will be competitive for a camera with the capabilities of the R3. $4000/4000 Euros is too cheap. It won't happen. Do you really expect the price difference to an R5 to be only a couple of hundred? 24mp isn't that big of a disability if this camera does everything else massively better. People are way too hung up on the possible 24mp resolution of this camera. It will be at least 1000 more than the R5. I don't expect it to be over 5500, but it will definitely be a more capable camera than the R5 in every way except perhaps resolution. For that, get an R5 as a 2nd body.


All you have to do is look at the price of the A9II and it should be a good indicator of pricing for the R3.


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## RayValdez360 (Sep 9, 2021)

Cyborx said:


> You post too Much on here!!


 I wish I could see sales numbers vs stock on the 1D series to know if it is too much to charge over $5000. I would think that canon doesnt make as many copies of flagships due to a lack of consumer demand of a high priced camera these days.


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## Aussie shooter (Sep 9, 2021)

unfocused said:


> I agree with all your points. On the R1, I also believe that Canon is in no rush. In fact, other than dual CFExpress card slots, I'm not even sure what Canon might add to an R1 to distinguish it from the R3 and justify a higher price. It seems that with the 1DxIII and the R3 (if it delivers as promised) Canon has the sports and photojournalism market very well covered.
> 
> For me, that raises the question of what niche would an R1 target. An R1 might be compared to a Leica. Built to professional standards, but actually marketed to enthusiasts who are willing to spend top dollar to have the best camera Canon makes. To further argue this, I look at the traditional market for the 1series bodies and there is no doubt that the professional market is shrinking fast and those that remain are being squeezed financially, making a lower cost R3 more appealing.
> 
> ...


I am starting to think that the R1 will be the 'everything' camera rather than a 'pro' flagship or a 'landscape' camera etc. I think they will pack absolutely everything they have that is the biggest and best of the available features. Megapickles, speed, battery life, EVF. EVERYTHING. I don't think a single feature it has will be topped by any other Canon Camera and it will be priced accordingly.


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## dba101 (Sep 9, 2021)

its going to drop at £5500


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## dba101 (Sep 9, 2021)

When Canon have you by the scruff of the neck, you know it’s for a good reason.


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## Jethro (Sep 9, 2021)

Cyborx said:


> You post too Much on here!!


Well that may be one thing you guys have in common ...


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## entoman (Sep 10, 2021)

bbasiaga said:


> Pricing will be interesting. They keep saying it is NOT their flagship....but I think there is a chance it will be more expensive than the 1DXIII. The R1 I think has a chance to be $8k USD, which gives a lot of room between there and the R5 to slot this. Canon has been pushing pricing a lot (e.g. 20%, or sometimes more), so that is how you get a $6500 1DXIII up to an $8k R1. Could they then put the R3 at $6600? I think its at least possible.
> 
> I hope its more like $4k, but I think that makes it too close to the R5. SO I'm guessing the floor for pricing will be $4500. In my purely speculative math here, that's a range of probability between $4500 and $6700USD. All too much for me. But I'm still waiting with excitement to see what the final answer is.
> 
> Brian


I think the R5 launched at about $4500, so my guess is that the R3 will be about $5500-6000, i.e about halfway between the R5 and 1Dxiii. Canon should be able to sell thousands at that price. Heaven only knows how much the R1 will cost - I think we can safely assume that Canon will wait to see what Nikon charge for the Z9, and then add at least another $1000...

Way too expensive for me, I'll stick with my R5 and add a battery grip and a couple more lenses instead.


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## entoman (Sep 10, 2021)

Roland said:


> Where as Wex and Park Cameras still £4300?


Just £3110 from Panamoz, and that includes the EF adaptor and a 3 year warranty. I've been buying all my bodies and lenses from them for years, and saved a fortune. I have no connection with them apart from being a very satisfied customer.


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## FrenchFry (Sep 10, 2021)

entoman said:


> I think the R5 launched at about $4500, so my guess is that the R3 will be about $5500-6000, i.e about halfway between the R5 and 1Dxiii. Canon should be able to sell thousands at that price. Heaven only knows how much the R1 will cost - I think we can safely assume that Canon will wait to see what Nikon charge for the Z9, and then add at least another $1000...
> 
> Way too expensive for me, I'll stick with my R5 and add a battery grip and a couple more lenses instead.


In the United States, the R5 launched at $3899, and is still that price now.


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## entoman (Sep 10, 2021)

FrenchFry said:


> In the United States, the R5 launched at $3899, and is still that price now.


But did that include taxes?

I paid GBP 3280 for mine back in March, direct from Hong Kong. The same retailer is now selling it for GBP 3110, including EF adaptor and 3 year warranty. Some people feel "safer" buying through the "official" importer, but over a period of about 10 years I've bought 5 Canon bodies and 6 Canon lenses from the same HK company, saving myself thousands, and I've never had the tiniest problem.


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## Czardoom (Sep 10, 2021)

Chip prices have gone up 10-20% in the last month or so. Prices for electronics of all sorts are shooting up. Alas, whatever your guesses are, if you aren't taking that into account, you will be way off. The price will be high. People on forums will scream and yell because they don't understand basic economics, and Canon will probably sell a lot of R3s. Comparing this camera to any Sony is foolish in my opinion. This will be a pro body in every way, built like a tank with integrated grip. No Sony is in that category.


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## FrenchFry (Sep 10, 2021)

entoman said:


> But did that include taxes?
> 
> I paid GBP 3280 for mine back in March, direct from Hong Kong. The same retailer is now selling it for GBP 3110, including EF adaptor and 3 year warranty. Some people feel "safer" buying through the "official" importer, but over a period of about 10 years I've bought 5 Canon bodies and 6 Canon lenses from the same HK company, saving myself thousands, and I've never had the tiniest problem.


No, US advertized prices do not include taxes, which range from 0-10%. Taxes vary by city and state.


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## canonmike (Sep 10, 2021)

Cyborx said:


> You know what? I am going to drop a little bomb here..
> I think that Canon actually might consider competitive pricing on the R3.
> 
> R6 costs 2500 euro's, R5 costs 4500 euro's .. I seriously think Canon will make the R3 around 4900 euro's.
> ...


Interesting viewpoint. I might caution you, however, if R3 priced at 3999 euro's, most buyers probably won't be able to find one for over a year. I don't believe you are in much danger of finding that price point but hope I eat those words, come Tues., Sep 14.


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## Cyborx (Sep 10, 2021)

dboris said:


> If it's 4000$, I guess no one will be able to buy it for the next 12 months.
> So it would be dumb of they, since they can milk out 2000$ more of profit.
> They don't have unlimited inventory.
> Like apple, canon must raise the prices to match it's production capabilities, with actual lower supply of components, and consummer demand .


Fair enough.. That’s a good point…
Too cheap will cause a run on the product.
Under normal circumstances a problem, in these times a disaster… ok, I’ll stick to 4999-5999,- euros.


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## arbitrage (Sep 10, 2021)

FWIW.
Yesterday Nokishita confirmed that it is 24.1MP. Following Nokishita for many years now they have a 100% track record. Their information is sourced from servers usually unpublished articles being prepared for once the NDA lift, not random rumors.


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## justaCanonuser (Sep 10, 2021)

arbitrage said:


> FWIW.
> Yesterday Nokishita confirmed that it is 24.1MP. Following Nokishita for many years now they have a 100% track record. Their information is sourced from servers usually unpublished articles being prepared for once the NDA lift, not random rumors.


sounds reasonable, 24 MP would be a sweet spot for such a camera made for action


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## justaCanonuser (Sep 10, 2021)

Czardoom said:


> Chip prices have gone up 10-20% in the last month or so. Prices for electronics of all sorts are shooting up. Alas, whatever your guesses are, if you aren't taking that into account, you will be way off. The price will be high.


I agree. This year e.g. went quite well for German premium car makers so far, despite chip shortages. They successfully turned less cars sold into solid profits by upping their prices and/or cutting rebates. Obviously, enough people were willing to pay more for those products.


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## justaCanonuser (Sep 10, 2021)

FrenchFry said:


> In the United States, the R5 launched at $3899, and is still that price now.


Shows that Canon can sell this camera still well, despite the overheating "issue" blown up on photog sites. Here in Germany, my local seller offers a rebate of 100 Euros currently, which is not much compared with partly huge rebates they offer for other cameras, the R e.g. dropped now from originally more than 2400 to less then 1600 Euros now.


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## Mechanical_EYE (Sep 10, 2021)

6099 euros

according to nikoshita


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 10, 2021)

Mechanical_EYE said:


> 6099 euros
> 
> according to nikoshita


So perhaps $5999 US, since the lens prices listed in the tweet are higher than the US dollar prices shown briefly on amazon.com. A bit cheaper than I thought, which is nice.


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## Mechanical_EYE (Sep 10, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> So perhaps $5999 US, since the lens prices listed in the tweet are higher than the US dollar prices shown briefly on amazon.com. A bit cheaper than I thought, which is nice.


Yea, I can now say I am interested... anything from 5000 to 6500 US and I think I am in.


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## FrenchFry (Sep 10, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> So perhaps $5999 US, since the lens prices listed in the tweet are higher than the US dollar prices shown briefly on amazon.com. A bit cheaper than I thought, which is nice.


The Nokishita price includes VAT, so the US pre-tax price could be a lot lower...
Since we don't know the country, we don't know the VAT percentage.

Here are some potential figures:
VAT of 10%: 5489 euros
VAT of 15%: 5184 euros
VAT of 20%: 4879 euros
VAT of 25%: 4574 euros

But, "the page is still being edited" so prices could shoot up!




Edit: a subsequent tweet puts the VAT at around 20%, which is 4879 euros.


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## dboris (Sep 11, 2021)

Cyborx said:


> Fair enough.. That’s a good point…
> Too cheap will cause a run on the product.
> Under normal circumstances a problem, in these times a disaster… ok, I’ll stick to 4999-5999,- euros.


Even without pandemy, nothing is unlimited, even for apple.


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