# Just had a long play with a 80D in store



## pj1974 (Apr 1, 2016)

Hi everyone...! 

I went to a local camera store here in Adelaide, South Australia – and a had a long time of playing with the new Canon 80D. They’ve had a few 80Ds on the shelves this week, with a number already being sold to folk who pre-ordered. They had a 80D with the new 18-135mm nano-USM lens kit for me to try / play with.

As a 7D user (and a 350D before that… but let’s not go there) here are some observations from using the camera in store (but not actually taking any images to view on a large monitor):
a)	It felt comfortable in my hand (I have average size hands for an adult male). Notably smaller and lighter than my 7D, but also somewhat (slightly) less rigid (the metal frame in the 7D is notable). Not that I was trying to ‘flex’ the body- it felt ‘solid’ – but not as ‘immovably rigid’ as my 7D.
b)	Optical AF was incredibly fast on this new “kit lens” – notably faster than any STM lens, and significantly faster than other non-STM kit lenses I have used. Racks from macro to 5 metres in less than half a second. And back the same way.
c)	Optical AF speed of the central AF point seemed to AF a smidgeon faster than other points.
-	If pushed, I would say if anything the central point faster is slightly than my 7D with 15-85mm USM, whereas the other points about the same as my 7D points. That’s probably the -3 EV capability helping in a fairly low-light shop (no natural light streaming into this store, and I was in a somewhat darker lit part of the store... just low level lighting).
d)	The overall AF points layout is very, very nice. I really like those 45 points, particularly for off central composition and focusing. Gonna be hard going home to ‘only’ 19 on my 7D
e)	The 80D’s wheel/D pad is not as intuitive / tactile as the “joystick and larger wheel combination” of my 7D… though I already started to get used to using the 80D’s multi-controller wheel /D-pad at the end of my time in store.
f)	Most of the controls felt fairly intuitive and familiar after a few minutes (though I probably do ‘learn’ camera layouts fairly quickly). The AF back-button felt very comfortable to me. I read someone writing it was not comfortable for them… but this was not the case for me. Shutter button and front wheel feel comfortable / natural.
g)	The 18-135mm nano-USM’s focus ring does not appear to have FTM like the USM on my 15-85mm or 70-300mm L, etc. It seemed to not be engaged to the focus mechanism all the time (perhaps it is fly by wire / STM style?) I didn’t spend long checking this out, as it is not of much concern for me on that type of lens. I noted the lens does not have a focus window (which for some reason I expected it had!)
h)	The 18-135mm feels very well balanced on the 80D DSLR body. The 18-135mm does extend notably during zooming.
i)	The 80D viewfinder probably felt quite similar, if anything perhaps a little smaller than my 7D’s. However it could be perception. I didn’t adjust the eye dioptre… so that could have something to do with it (I typically need to adjust it a fair bit, as I’m quite nearsighted and wear glasses)
j)	Live View AF was incredible! Both in photo mode and in video, the speed and surety of obtaining initial focus, and tracking a moving subject/object e.g. a staff member walking by, was very good. It felt only slightly slower than say the optical AF speed of a STM lens. With the new lens, it’s definitely not as quick as optical AF view, but not much off it. It feels 5 to 10 times quicker (in the relatively dim light) than my 7D’s Live View AF.
k)	I managed to get Live View AF to ‘mis-hunt’ and eventually not lock focus when I zoomed right in on a black bag with little contrast / no bright features (in dim light). However for all other “scenes” – Live View acquired focus confidently (just once or twice it hunted / hesitated for a split second with little contrast, e.g. the bench surface, which was almost pure white). But most other “scenes” (e.g. lenses on the shelf, the bank/ credit-card-reader) it got accurate AF almost instantly. My 7D would have struggled and not been able to obtain AF in many of these cases (it was in my hand, and hand shake, even with IS on, does not assist the older/ slower non-DPAF).
l)	The ‘beep’ sounded softer than on my 7D (but I have it turned off on my 7D). Or am I going deafer? Lol
m)	Shutter sound is softer than the 7D. I appreciate this… particularly if photographing in quiet environments (e.g. church), or not wanting to scare animals away.
n)	Articulated screen was bright and easy to use (though I didn’t take it outside). I did not move the articulated screen out… but may do that on a subsequent visit…
o)	I explored a bit of the menu system… I found I didn’t use the touchscreen (as I am not used to touchscreen on cameras… yet). But if I get an 80D that could change!
p)	Some Q functions are laid out a bit differently after the Q button press. But easy to work out after a second looking at the screen.
q)	I could easily have played with it for longer… but I needed to get back to work.  

If anyone has specific questions about the handling of the camera (or other ‘first impressions’ that I may be able to share)… please ask me.
I cannot answer about the camera’s image quality, etc – as I do not have any photos from that in-store camera to look at.

Cheers… looking forward to your replies, and others use and impressions of this quite impressive new Canon DSLR. 

Paul 8)


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## midluk (Apr 1, 2016)

pj1974 said:


> g)	The 18-135mm nano-USM’s focus ring does not appear to have FTM like the USM on my 15-85mm or 70-300mm L, etc. It seemed to not be engaged to the focus mechanism all the time (perhaps it is fly by wire / STM style?) I didn’t spend long checking this out, as it is not of much concern for me on that type of lens. I noted the lens does not have a focus window (which for some reason I expected it had!)


Wasn't that already obvious from Canon's video presentations? Nano USM is not a faster Ring USM but a faster STM. No focus window and only focus by wire. Which in term means no tactive feedback when you reach the end of the focus range and you have to half-press the shutter button for the lens to be powered to make the "manual" focus work.


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## JohanCruyff (Apr 1, 2016)

pj1974 said:


> b) Optical AF was incredibly fast on this new “kit lens” – notably faster than any STM lens, and significantly faster than other non-STM kit lenses I have used. Racks from macro to 5 metres in less than half a second. And back the same way.
> c) Optical AF speed of the central AF point seemed to AF a smidgeon faster than other points.
> - If pushed, I would say if anything the central point faster is slightly than my 7D with 15-85mm USM, whereas the other points about the same as my 7D points. That’s probably the -3 EV capability helping in a fairly low-light shop (no natural light streaming into this store, and I was in a somewhat darker lit part of the store... just low level lighting).


 
Interesting... & thanks for sharing!


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## pj1974 (Apr 1, 2016)

midluk said:


> pj1974 said:
> 
> 
> > g)	The 18-135mm nano-USM’s focus ring does not appear to have FTM like the USM on my 15-85mm or 70-300mm L, etc. It seemed to not be engaged to the focus mechanism all the time (perhaps it is fly by wire / STM style?) I didn’t spend long checking this out, as it is not of much concern for me on that type of lens. I noted the lens does not have a focus window (which for some reason I expected it had!)
> ...



It may have been obvious from one or some of Canon's video presentations. 
However that bit of information was not retained in my memory. Perhaps also because the AF system is labelled nano 'USM' (rather than nano 'STM') - I expected it to behave more like an USM lens. 

I expect at least some other readers, like me, did not realise or remember this, hence I wrote about it. 

Regards

Paul 8)


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## pj1974 (Apr 1, 2016)

JohanCruyff said:


> pj1974 said:
> 
> 
> > b) Optical AF was incredibly fast on this new “kit lens” – notably faster than any STM lens, and significantly faster than other non-STM kit lenses I have used. Racks from macro to 5 metres in less than half a second. And back the same way.
> ...



Glad you found it interesting, JohanCruyff!
With pleasure... and wishing you a great weekend (it's already Friday evening here in Australia)

Regards

Paul 8)


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## overniven (Apr 3, 2016)

Is the 80D's direction pad on the dial as mushy and hard to use as the one on the 70D was? It didn't always register button presses when I intended to.


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## pj1974 (Apr 3, 2016)

overniven said:


> Is the 80D's direction pad on the dial as mushy and hard to use as the one on the 70D was? It didn't always register button presses when I intended to.



Hi overniven

From memory, the 80D's direction pad felt very similar to what I have (briefly) used on the 70D.

I have a 7D (and 350D) - so I can't compare with extensive experience on a 70D, however I will say that the D pad is not as intuitive as other D pads I have used, but also not as bad as some others.

The 80D's D-pad lacks some tactile feel. However, having said that, I did find I got used to it after some more time in my hand. I initially found the 7D's joystick a bit 'fiddly' - but now am very accustomed to it.

You might want to read what some other people wrote about the D-pad i.e. DPReview's authors and readers, here http://www.dpreview.com/news/9204499001/canon-eos-80d-shooting-experience 

Best wishes

Paul 8)


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 4, 2016)

pj1974 said:


> JohanCruyff said:
> 
> 
> > pj1974 said:
> ...



I was also interested in your post.

I was interested in the 70D until I went to the store and tried one, I suppose it will be the same story with the 80D. If it was as solid and large as the 40D, and had the joystick, that might be a lot more interesting. I'm sure that its a fine camera, but I found the 70D to just have a cheap feel.


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## pj1974 (Apr 5, 2016)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> pj1974 said:
> 
> 
> > JohanCruyff said:
> ...



Thanks for writing, Mt Spokane Photography. I am glad that you were also interested in my post about the 80D. And I appreciate a lot of your posts here on CR. 

Indeed, I realise the later versions of the XXD line (e.g. 80D) of Canon camera’s do not have ergonomics that are as pleasing to some (most!) as earlier versions (e.g. 40D). The D-pad/rear wheel combination does not seem to be as user friendly as a dedicated mini-joystick and larger wheel. However it still ‘functions’ for most.

Compared to higher end cameras, such as the 7D/7DmkII or 5DmkIII/5DS – to me the 80D feels about “70%” as solid / professional. Compared to 1D cameras, an 80D may even indeed feel ‘toy-like’ to some. I have recently used a few 1D bodies, and found them to be too large and uncomfortable for my shooting style. People have different sized hands and preferences.

The 80D, compared to my old 350D (Rebel XT) feels closer in build quality to my 7D. I would rate the 350D to be 30% as solid / professional as my 7D. So yes, the 80D feels closer to my 7D that it does to the 350D.

One extra thing I will mention here (which I did not write above), was that later I tried out another brand new 80D in another camera store. They had just arrived in store (about an hour before), and they had no kit versions (the few kit versions they had were despatched to customers who had pre-ordered. So the customer assistant unpacked the 80D body for me, put the battery in and attached a 35mm f/1.4 (v1) lens to it.
The 35mm f/1.4 lens did not seem to auto-focus as quickly on that body, as the 18-135mm nano USM did on another 80D camera I had tried earlier. Both in optical AF as well as Live View. Initially, I put this down to a new battery on low charge (as I only had about 10 to 15 minutes with the camera before the battery level got down to 2%). But I would be interested to see whether there is something Canon has done in the new body/lens combination, because I was seriously impressed with the AF speed for a relatively ‘slow’ lens!

Roger at LensRentals published some information from tests undertook between July and Sept 2012 about newer vs older lenses, and DSLR bodies. It’s very interesting reading. Google “lensrentals af accuracy” and you’ll get the various pages (5) of his blog about this issue. I have a theory that what was discussed there, impacts what we are seeing today- with both optical AF as well as (to some degree) on-sensor AF (such as PDAF).

Again, thanks Mt Spokane.

Regards

Paul 8)


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 5, 2016)

pj1974 said:


> I was also interested in your post.
> 
> I was interested in the 70D until I went to the store and tried one, I suppose it will be the same story with the 80D. If it was as solid and large as the 40D, and had the joystick, that might be a lot more interesting. I'm sure that its a fine camera, but I found the 70D to just have a cheap feel.



Thanks for writing, Mt Spokane Photography. I am glad that you were also interested in my post about the 80D. And I appreciate a lot of your posts here on CR. 

Indeed, I realise the later versions of the XXD line (e.g. 80D) of Canon camera’s do not have ergonomics that are as pleasing to some (most!) as earlier versions (e.g. 40D). The D-pad/rear wheel combination does not seem to be as user friendly as a dedicated mini-joystick and larger wheel. However it still ‘functions’ for most.

Compared to higher end cameras, such as the 7D/7DmkII or 5DmkIII/5DS – to me the 80D feels about “70%” as solid / professional. Compared to 1D cameras, an 80D may even indeed feel ‘toy-like’ to some. I have recently used a few 1D bodies, and found them to be too large and uncomfortable for my shooting style. People have different sized hands and preferences.

The 80D, compared to my old 350D (Rebel XT) feels closer in build quality to my 7D. I would rate the 350D to be 30% as solid / professional as my 7D. So yes, the 80D feels closer to my 7D that it does to the 350D.

One extra thing I will mention here (which I did not write above), was that later I tried out another brand new 80D in another camera store. They had just arrived in store (about an hour before), and they had no kit versions (the few kit versions they had were despatched to customers who had pre-ordered. So the customer assistant unpacked the 80D body for me, put the battery in and attached a 35mm f/1.4 (v1) lens to it.
The 35mm f/1.4 lens did not seem to auto-focus as quickly on that body, as the 18-135mm nano USM did on another 80D camera I had tried earlier. Both in optical AF as well as Live View. Initially, I put this down to a new battery on low charge (as I only had about 10 to 15 minutes with the camera before the battery level got down to 2%). But I would be interested to see whether there is something Canon has done in the new body/lens combination, because I was seriously impressed with the AF speed for a relatively ‘slow’ lens!

Roger at LensRentals published some information from tests undertook between July and Sept 2012 about newer vs older lenses, and DSLR bodies. It’s very interesting reading. Google “lensrentals af accuracy” and you’ll get the various pages (5) of his blog about this issue. I have a theory that what was discussed there, impacts what we are seeing today- with both optical AF as well as (to some degree) on-sensor AF (such as PDAF).

Again, thanks Mt Spokane.

Regards

Paul 8)
[/quote]

I have two issues that make it difficult for me.

1. I have carpal tunnel, and after surgery on both hands, the nerve damage makes my fingers numb.

2. My large fingers do not work well or at all on the D pads, my finger covers the whole thing, and with no feeling, its a mess. I can feel and control a joystick. I have glued a raised shutter button on my camera so I can sort of feel it.

Computer keyboards are a issue as well, I have found the clackity mechanical keyboards to work best, but I still have lots of misspelling.


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## pj1974 (Apr 6, 2016)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I have two issues that make it difficult for me.
> 
> 1. I have carpal tunnel, and after surgery on both hands, the nerve damage makes my fingers numb.
> 
> ...



Hi Mt Spokane

Thanks for writing (again). 

1.	Ah, yes… carpal tunnel surgery that has left your fingers numb would mean that you place a higher importance on camera ergonomics. It would also mean certain genres of photography suits you more than others.
My father has carpal tunnel, and has had surgery some years back. He is a (long retired) carpenter… he manages to still do most things with his hands, but he has never had the most sensitive / feeling hands!

2.	Indeed, if you have large fingers, I can imagine D-pads do not work so well. I have average sized fingers. Thankfully over the years, I have found I always get accustomed to any camera body after a while. However I do not deny that the 7D ergonomics work very well for me… and joystick / larger scroll wheel are better than the D pad/scroll wheel combination.

I can imagine that keyboards are an issue too. I actually prefer the ‘semi-soft’ (but still ‘clackity’) mechanical keyboards. I type at (and sometimes over) 90 words per minute… yes, I can type fairly fast and was professionally trained to touch type in the 80’s.

Best wishes

Paul 8)


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## overniven (Apr 11, 2016)

I got to try the 80D today and it appears that for my purposes, the d-pad is better than the 70D.
The build itself feels a tiny bit less solid than the 70D I have.

The WiFi setup seems at first glance to be at least a little bit more sensible to set up.

It all feels pretty snappy, but I've been using the M3 lately so I'm fairly certain it's not much different than the 70D.

It has a FD (fine detail) that is new, along with a number of new settings inside the Canon presets.

I might take the plunge on this one as a trade up from the 70D. 

I can't help but think that this same camera as a 6D mark II FF would sell a ton.


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## chrysoberyl (Apr 11, 2016)

My 80D focuses quite rapidly with my Canon 70-200 II and my Sigma 35mm ART. The 80D + 70-200 II IQ seems close to that of my 6D + 70-200 II, certainly as good as 6D + 1.4X extender + 70-200 II.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 11, 2016)

I stopped in at our local camera store today and checked one out. It was sitting right next to a 70D. It felt pretty good in my hands, so I tried the 70D. They look identical, but there is a batter feel for me on the 80D. I tried the * button, my big thump presses all three at once.

Then I tried autofocus with the 18-135 kit lens. It did a fair job in the store, which could be considered as marginal lighting. Then I played with live AF. It was very slow, not as fast as I've been led to believe. About 3-5 seconds for a near to far AF.

With gray market 7D MK II's going for around $1200 and a 80D now discounted to $1170, I think the 7D would be my pick.


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