# Double shutter sound on the R



## Koala (Oct 30, 2019)

Have someone encountered this? When I press the shutter sound, it clicks twice, but there's one picture.
There's no difference whether I choose shooting RAW or RAW+JPEG...


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## Jonathan Thill (Oct 31, 2019)

Go to Menu -> Camera settings page 6 and change the Silent LV Shoot from Disabled to Mode 1 and it will just make a single shutter sound.


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## Viggo (Oct 31, 2019)

Ramage said:


> Go to Menu -> Camera settings page 6 and change the Silent LV Shoot from Disabled to Mode 1 and it will just make a single shutter sound.


What’s worse though, destroying your shots or live with the sound?


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## Sharlin (Oct 31, 2019)

When the electronic first curtain shutter is disabled, the mechanical shutter must first close, then open to start the exposure, then close again to end the exposure, _then_ open once more to continue the EVF/Live View feed. When EFCS is enabled, the mechanical shutter only has to close at the end of exposure and open again.


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## Jonathan Thill (Oct 31, 2019)

Viggo said:


> What’s worse though, destroying your shots or live with the sound?


Viggo,

"Destroying your shots" please enlighten me.


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## Viggo (Oct 31, 2019)

Ramage said:


> Viggo,
> 
> "Destroying your shots" please enlighten me.


Horrible bokeh, less blur, weird things going on in the blured areas. I didn't know the R was default set to Mode 1 and it ruined my two first shoots.


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## Jonathan Thill (Oct 31, 2019)

Interesting I only shoot in this mode and have not had any issues. (that I am aware of) 

Just a quick example with the 15-35, I think the bokeh looks good. 

Will mess around with the LV Disabled 

Thanks


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## Koala (Oct 31, 2019)

So, just to understand, 2 shutter clicks is a normal behavior of the R?


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## Jonathan Thill (Oct 31, 2019)

Koala said:


> So, just to understand, 2 shutter clicks is a normal behavior of the R?


I think the default is a single click but may have a negative impact on your results. 

I run with the single click using








This mode will have the double click


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## SteveC (Oct 31, 2019)

If I understand what's going on here, in the two click mode, you're hearing the shutter close, then open, then again, so the sequence occurs twice.

Whereas in a single click mode on a DSLR NOT in live view, what you'd hear is the opposite (open, then close), and only once, right?

(I wonder if close-then-open sounds appreciably different from open-then-close?)


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## LesC (Nov 2, 2019)

I hear only one sound on short exposures ie 1/250th of a sec but notice that on longer exposures, say for example 1/4 of a second, when you press the shutter button it _appears_ as if there's a delay before you hear the shutter sound. I assume this is because on a dslr I'm used to hearing the mirror go up & shutter open then the shutter close whereas on the R all I hear is the shutter close?? Maybe .... I'm confused


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## LesC (Nov 2, 2019)

I think I know what's happening at least with the one click scenario ... with the R it is suggested to change lenses with camera switched off - as the shutter is closed. When you first switch on the camera, you hear a noise - this is the shutter opening. So when you take a picture, the one click you hear is the shutter closing at the end of the exposure and then immediately opening again ready for the next shot. That would explain why there seems appears to be a delay on longer exposures - the sound you hear is always the shutter close/open action but obviously with a longer exposure this happens a fraction later after pressing the shutter than with a very shot exposure. I'll have to try the 2 click setting to see if I prefer it...


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## Karlbug (Nov 3, 2019)

Viggo said:


> Horrible bokeh, less blur, weird things going on in the blured areas. I didn't know the R was default set to Mode 1 and it ruined my two first shoots.


What about shutter shock? EFCS is default on EOS R for a reason.


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## Viggo (Nov 3, 2019)

angrykarl said:


> What about shutter shock? EFCS is default on EOS R for a reason.


Has never been an issue, even with my DSLR’s. I think Canon set it to default because the camera seems much more snappy. My one gripe with the R is the shutter lag, wish it was instant like the 1-series.


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## Karlbug (Nov 4, 2019)

Viggo said:


> Has never been an issue, even with my DSLR’s. I think Canon set it to default because the camera seems much more snappy. My one gripe with the R is the shutter lag, wish it was instant like the 1-series.


It depends on what you shoot, but it's supposed to be a bigger problem with mirrorless than with DSLRs. For example Nikon Zs launched with default mechanical shutter and it was a problem, so they introduced a firmware update with Auto mode, that chooses shutter mode based on shutter speed. I wish Canon would do the same for EOS R.


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## koenkooi (Nov 4, 2019)

angrykarl said:


> What about shutter shock? EFCS is default on EOS R for a reason.



I've had one situation with an R where shutter shock was horrible: using an IS lens in the 1/160 - 1/200 range. I was using the R + 100mm L + flash to photograph butterflies and was getting motion blur. Turning IS off would fix it, as would switching back to EFCS.
I only had the R for a week, but I didn't see shuttershock in any other situation, nothing with the RF50 or RF85 indoors or after dark.

Shot from that series (without shuttershock):




20190709-IMG_0522.jpg by Koen Kooi, on Flickr


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## Karlbug (Nov 4, 2019)

koenkooi said:


> I've had one situation with an R where shutter shock was horrible: using an IS lens in the 1/160 - 1/200 range. I was using the R + 100mm L + flash to photograph butterflies and was getting motion blur. Turning IS off would fix it, as would switching back to EFCS.
> I only had the R for a week, but I didn't see shuttershock in any other situation, nothing with the RF50 or RF85 indoors or after dark.


I think it happened to me once when shooting evening landscape with RF 24-105, but maybe it was just motion blur. Since then I have EFCS as default unless shooting portraits.

Nice macro pic, btw.


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## YuengLinger (Nov 4, 2019)

Is there a consensus here in this thread? Is Mode 1 better or worse for IQ than Disabled???


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## koenkooi (Nov 4, 2019)

YuengLinger said:


> Is there a consensus here in this thread? Is Mode 1 better or worse for IQ than Disabled???



"It depends"  If you have large aperture lenses like the f/1.2 ones, with fast shutter speeds you get less bokeh with EFCS. I haven't heard of other downsides to it.


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## Jonathan Thill (Nov 4, 2019)

YuengLinger said:


> Is there a consensus here in this thread? Is Mode 1 better or worse for IQ than Disabled???



I did some shooting on the weekend and I was not able to tell the difference with Mode 1 disabled or enabled.

Used the following:

Rf 15-35mm
100-400mm MKI
Rf 35mm
RF 24-105mm
I do not own any of the fast primes. _(Have not been able to get the expense approved through the appropriations committee (my wife). YET!)_

For me if there is a chance that Mode 1 is degrading my shots I will simply disable it. That said I have not seen any evidence in my photos this is true, but thanks to this thread I now understand what the camera is doing with the "double" shutter sound. When I first ran into the the double shutter I thought something was wrong and had to figure out how to disable it cause it was not "normal".


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## YuengLinger (Nov 4, 2019)

Viggo said:


> Horrible bokeh, less blur, weird things going on in the blured areas. I didn't know the R was default set to Mode 1 and it ruined my two first shoots.


I'm not seeing it with the rf 50mm f/1.2L. But I haven't compared what am getting (and loving) to "Disabled."
Are you sure this was the issue and no other factor?


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## Viggo (Nov 5, 2019)

YuengLinger said:


> I'm not seeing it with the rf 50mm f/1.2L. But I haven't compared what am getting (and loving) to "Disabled."
> Are you sure this was the issue and no other factor?


Absolutely sure. Shoot something at 1/4000s f1.2 and with a slightly busy background with Mode 1 and Disable, it looks like you’ve stopped down and it looks gritty with mode 1.
From the manual :


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## Jonathan Thill (Nov 5, 2019)

Viggo said:


> Absolutely sure. Shoot something at 1/4000s f1.2 and with a slightly busy background with Mode 1 and Disable, it looks like you’ve stopped down and it looks gritty with mode 1.
> From the manual :


So it is slightly situational but why risk it. I am going to get used to the double shutter sound. 

Thanks Viggo


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## highdesertmesa (Nov 16, 2019)

This thread is all over the map.

Default shutter on R is EFCS or electronic front curtain shutter (Silent LV shoot – enabled).

EFCS avoids shutter shock similar to using mirror lockup on a DSLR. The front curtain on a mirrorless camera carries most of the vibration, so EFCS gives you the best of both worlds by using electronic front curtain with a mechanical rear curtain (thereby avoiding the possible rolling shutter with full electronic/silent).

Where EFCS is problematic is when shooting wide aperture at shutter speeds over 1/500 of a second. In such cases, you may see bokeh artifacts (sharp edges to blur areas), reduced bokeh (f/1.2 blur may appear as f/1.4 blur), or partial reduction in bokeh (ex: half of frame appears normal at f/1.2 but other half has reduced bokeh).

Full mechanical shutter (Silent LV shoot – disabled) should be used over 1/500 sec if you're shooting at wide apertures in bright light. Otherwise, keep it on EFCS. This is the mode where you will hear what sounds like two exposures being taken – both front and rear curtains are moving. The slower the shutter speed the more pronounced this auditory effect will be. At fast shutter speeds it sounds close to EFCS.

Canon should not have named these things so cryptically they way they would on a consumer-oriented Rebel. Call them what they are, Canon. I suspect they may change the labeling with the coming high-res and 1D-class R bodies.

Canon also could help us out by doing what Fujifilm already does – giving the option for "extended" modes where you can automatically switch from EFCS to mechanical shutter over 1/600 sec. with the additional option to move to full electronic/silent shutter once the exposure requires a faster shutter speed than the mechanical shutter can reach (either 1/4000 or 1/8000 sec. depending on the model.). This full extended mode automatically moves from EFCS to mechanical to electronic allowing the photographer to avoid EFCS bokeh artifacts or blow the exposure when exceeding 1/4000 or 1/8000 second in bright light.


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## highdesertmesa (Nov 16, 2019)

Ramage said:


> So it is slightly situational but why risk it. I am going to get used to the double shutter sound.
> 
> Thanks Viggo



Even on a tripod the full mechanical shutter can cause micro-blur from vibration inside the camera, especially with longer shutter speeds. If you're shooting at 1/125 and higher, you'll probably never see the shutter shock, but be aware you may run into sharpness issues at 1:1 viewing/large prints if not in EFCS mode.


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## Jonathan Thill (Nov 16, 2019)

highdesertmesa said:


> This thread is all over the map.
> 
> Default shutter on R is EFCS or electronic front curtain shutter (Silent LV shoot – enabled).
> 
> ...



Thank you for that very detailed explanation!!!

I have to agree, the terminology that Canon is using does not help clarify the modes in any meaningful way.


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## StoicalEtcher (Nov 17, 2019)

Ramage said:


> Thank you for that very detailed explanation!!!
> 
> .....


I second that - very interesting thanks highdesertmesa (No R here myself, but watching with interest, so I've been keeping an eye on this thread).

Stoical.


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