# Want to start shooting professionally aNy suggestions?



## KKCFamilyman (Sep 17, 2012)

I have a 5d3 24-105, 70-200 2.8 is ii, 50mm 1.4. I want to start a photography business shooting family portraits at family outings or where ever they want to shoot. I like Candids and would love to go and capture those moments for families like first days at schools, parties, holidays, etc. just not sure how to get started and if I should do some free work to gain experience, etc. Any suggestions would be helpful.


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## bdunbar79 (Sep 17, 2012)

KKCFamilyman said:


> I have a 5d3 24-105, 70-200 2.8 is ii, 50mm 1.4. I want to start a photography business shooting family portraits at family outings or where ever they want to shoot. I like Candids and would love to go and capture those moments for families like first days at schools, parties, holidays, etc. just not sure how to get started and if I should do some free work to gain experience, etc. Any suggestions would be helpful.



If you want to start a business, in the true sense, it's going to be a long tough way ahead. I'd keep your day job and give yourself about 2 years. Advertise, and be prepared to shoot for very little money at first. As you do more and more events, you can build yourself a photo gallery and porfolio and you must have a website. Then and only then will people become interested in your work. After that, you can buy more equipment and do senior pictures. It wouldn't hurt either to shoot weddings as backup. Ultimately though, if you want to make a living, you're going to have to do senior pictures and weddings. If you don't want to do those things, you'll have to keep a 9-5 job and do photography as a 2nd job. That's what I do.

Start small by advertising to those who do not want to pay for/cannot afford a full-time professional photographer. Make sure you have the bare minimum, but sufficient equipment to shoot the things you want to shoot. Someone may have you do senior pictures right away, especially someone who cannot afford a full pro package, and even be prepared to have offers for weddings. Again, be prepared to make very little money, but this is valuable experience for building a portfolio later on, down the road. These little jobs will have big gains later.


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## nightbreath (Sep 17, 2012)

You can practice by shooting your friends for free. But don't let them feel that you're always going to do this without carging people


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 17, 2012)

Its a business. Build a business plan, and run it by your accountant (He should be willing to help you and make sure you have enough reserve cash to keep going for the year it takes to get established.
Advertise!
Everyone and his brother is buying a DSLR and hanging out his sign with silly low prices on Craigslist. If you want to actually succeed, you need to approach it like a business, not a hobby.


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## KKCFamilyman (Sep 18, 2012)

I have no problem with that. I am just concerned about the ROI on my investment and if this is still a good time to be a photographer. I would like to start a business and eventually have people going out shooting for me. I do enjoy this but I am a good salesman and could really make it thrive. I was just looking to get started to see if my photography is good enough and people like it and would pay for it to start with.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 18, 2012)

KKCFamilyman said:


> I have no problem with that. I am just concerned about the ROI on my investment and if this is still a good time to be a photographer. I would like to start a business and eventually have people going out shooting for me. I do enjoy this but I am a good salesman and could really make it thrive. I was just looking to get started to see if my photography is good enough and people like it and would pay for it to start with.


Imho, being a good salesman and having a sound business plan is more important than creative talent when it comes to making a profit. Most photos follow a relatively fixed plan, certainly, creativity helps, but listening to the customer and sellling yourself as a serious photographer trump everything else.
Have a website, a few sample photobooks and prints showing your best work, and some references. Sign up with the BBB (USA) since many do check with them for complaints.
You will do fine as long as you do not undersell yourself by begging for customers or offering photography for under cost on Craigslist. I think I'd hire you already


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## Heavyweight67 (Sep 18, 2012)

There is always a danger of turning a hobby into a business, that one thing that you loved to do so much soon loses it's shine when it becomes a "have to" not "want to"...

That being said, like many starting out, you need to know your market or "if" there is a market...and if that market will provide the income you need to pay the bills and keep the family fed.

From my observations it seems that now "everyone" thinks they are "pro grade" photographers, so this is something to keep in mind, as many on this forum have stated in the past one of the biggest hurdles in the photography business is "Uncle Bob"...

It seems that anyone that can afford a half decent camera is now opening a business, I think this is where it becomes difficult to get your foot in the door (the salesman in you has to step in at this point), good portfolio, good website.

i.e...just recently a friend of mine got married (low cost) she posted a link on FB of the wedding photographers website, I have to say I was shocked at the poor quality of the photo's this person had used to promote their business...even though they were cheap $1000 for the Premium Package, I would expect better quality (photo's & PP)

You mentioned that you would eventually like to "sub-contract" work to others, maybe this is a place you could start...Find a similar business and see if they will take you on as a "subbie"...

This way you get experience, you get the companies contacts and knowledge, you can probably pick and choose your jobs or hours... If you find that it's what you want to do, in the future you can go out on your own (maybe don't sign too many contracts that may prevent you from moving out on your own).

Photography is a rapidly changing business, those 8x10 that once were framed and hung proudly are now Instagram on FB.


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## KKCFamilyman (Sep 19, 2012)

Heavyweight67 said:


> There is always a danger of turning a hobby into a business, that one thing that you loved to do so much soon loses it's shine when it becomes a "have to" not "want to"...
> 
> That being said, like many starting out, you need to know your market or "if" there is a market...and if that market will provide the income you need to pay the bills and keep the family fed.
> 
> ...



See that last comment is my concern. I am trying to devise ways of being different. One idea was an iPad photo album package spinning off iPad photo frames. Really it's a nice digital picture frame and you could offer photo shoots to bring current photos to update their albums. Anyway just a thought.


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## M.ST (Oct 16, 2012)

If you want start a business you have to ask yourself:

What professional photographers are in my area, how good they are and are a few of them well know for family photos or events?

Compare your photos with the photos taken by the professional photographers in your area. If they can make outstanding photos and the photographers are better than you forget your dream and shoot photos only as a second job.

Have I all the skills (professional lightning setup and image development included) to run the business?

Can I assure possible clients, that I am the photographer for family photos they need?

What I have to invest to run the business?

Can I live from famliy photos?

If you think you had a chance you need a business plan:
Add you private costs and business cost (equipment, investments, insurance, advertising etc.) together and compare it with the possible (realistic) income as a photographer.

Only a few photographers in the world can live very well from photography. For me it´s a business, but also a lot of fun. For the most professional photographers it´s a daily battle to earn the money and get some new clients. 

Remember: A professional camera and some professional lenses don´t make a professional photographer.


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## paul13walnut5 (Oct 16, 2012)

Find a local working photographer, ask about the possibility of doing B camera. Candid rolls etc.

Can you direct people?

Can you compose a scene?

Can you control the light?

Can you mix ambient light with additional light?

What if the church minister says in no uncertain terms that flashes are not allowed in his church? 

You have a 5D3, whats your B camera? 

You have professional indemnity insurance?

You have public liability insurance?

You have theft or damage kit insurance?

Even volunteering for a couple of shoots, are you prepared to make a contribution to the church for their consent to shoot? 

You'll have done some training or similar? You'll know your top shutter synch speed? You'll know at which apertures your lenses are soft and at which they are sharp?

I turned video from a hobby into a job. I can have really rewarding days at work, where I come home bouyed by a happy forward thinking client who loves my work, I can also come home shattered, creatively drained by a conservative or pernickity client, who has wandered off brief and is also angling for a discount, or doesn't want to pay for the 7th re-edit which was pretty much the same as the first.

I'm lucky in that I'm a staffer, topping up with the odd repeat freelance work. My staffer bit gives me holiday pay, sick pay, no books to do. The freelance work gives me a little paperwork now and again, if I was a full time freelancer I would be needing to think about chasing the work, invoicing every bit of work, doing full tax audits, not to mention actually doing the work.

I think everybody so far has been very pragmatic. Nobody is saying 'don't do it', more 'know what you are getting into'. It is a different kind of experience shooting for pleasure and shooting on somebody elses time and budget.


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## PeterJ (Oct 16, 2012)

You have some great gear and often others on forums will try to put you off using obscure terms like "composition" and "controlling light". Those things are not really that important so go forth and prosper and I wish you luck in your new career ;D.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 16, 2012)

paul13walnut5 said:


> I can also come home shattered, creatively drained by a conservative or *pernickity* client...



I far prefer the term persnickety over pernickity. Not that I'm either. 

Seriously, great feedback and tips!


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## PackLight (Oct 16, 2012)

KKCFamilyman said:


> I have a 5d3 24-105, 70-200 2.8 is ii, 50mm 1.4. I want to start a photography business shooting family portraits at family outings or where ever they want to shoot. I like Candids and would love to go and capture those moments for families like first days at schools, parties, holidays, etc. just not sure how to get started and if I should do some free work to gain experience, etc. Any suggestions would be helpful.



Keep your day job


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## joshmurrah (Oct 16, 2012)

I'm in pretty much at the same stage as the OP.

My thought on the matter is that I should be a subbie or second/intern for a year or two, and see if it's appetizing at all... and after that year or two, either jump in, or go back to firm hobby status.

I will say I was pretty horrified at the overhead of just running the business, for something that's guaranteed not to make any money for the first year or two typically... just a business license was ~$200, that didn't include the excise tax addition.


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## strikerwy (Oct 16, 2012)

Seven years ago, I found myself asking the same questions. I loved photography, especially landscape work, and had a decent film based portfolio for someone my age (at the time). Folks started translating good landscape work into requests for weddings and family portraits, of which the first few were terrible as I didn't understand good portrait composition and didn't have the right lighting equipment for indoor work.

I persevered and continued reinvesting my meager photo income in equipment until my imagery began really popping compared to many other local photographers. Additionally, and this is the biggest tip I could offer any aspring photographer, because I am a school teacher, I started shooting all of the local school district team photos. Complimentery coach images and providing photos for school flyers and yearbooks at no charge is a guaranteed call back. Before I knew it, I was shooting every team in the district, and there are huge dollars in what parents will buy--if your work is good. What I began noticing, though, is that once I had my foot in the door with the school district, the trickle up effect began. Pretty soon many of the athletes and parents were calling me to do senior portraits, family portraits, and even weddings. I built my business from the bottom up, and today I NEVER advertise and have more work than I could ever deal with. I just finished my 13th wedding since June 1st, my 23rd senior portrait session in the same window and am now photographing many of the local rec district sports programs as well. Good work, competitive pricing, unrivaled customer service and some sort of connection with local schools will grow a photography business better and faster then one might imagine.

www.timdoolinphotography.com


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## paul13walnut5 (Oct 16, 2012)

@PeterJ


> obscure terms like "composition" and "controlling light"



That's really very funny. You won't realise it. But it is.


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## Dylan777 (Oct 16, 2012)

It's fun to do take photography as hobby. But when you switch a hobby into professional....this no longer fun.

I have 4 friends(Wedding Pro for 15yrs), they have their own studio(s) and most of their camera gear is always up to date. To cover the entile wedding, they always go out as a pair. Each carry 2 FF bodies and decent L lenses.

I talked to them quite often about photograhpy business - after all expenses, they take home around $50K - $65K a year(in Califonia, this considered as min income). Their work hours are not 9-5, they spend ave 10 to 12hrs per day in studio for PP, edit, printing etc (monday to friday). Their weekend is mostly at wedding events....

If your current income is $100K or above, I suggest you keep photography as a hobby.


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## PhotoBadger (Oct 16, 2012)

You could do a lot worse than spend some time reading Keith Cooper's stuff over at Northlight:
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/stuff2/?cat=14

Lots of good stuff about turning pro and running a photography business.

Personally it just confirmed that I'll be a lot happier as a hobbyist!


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## agierke (Oct 16, 2012)

some good advice being bandied about here. i think you will find that in photography there is no single formula for success as each successful photographer will have a unique story as to the path they took. 

my own path started with assisting (something i highly recommend) which led to second shooting which led to main shooting. i have been working solely in the field of photography for over 10 years now and it has only been in the last 2 years that my business has started to transition into me taking a more leading role rather than providing support for other photographers. patience will be an enormously important attribute.

there will be no comprehensive answer to the question you posed (too much stuff to cover not enough time) but i'll contribute a few thoughts.

assisting 

this is where a big part of the patience comes in but where an great deal of knowledge can be gained that you wont find online or in books. assisting multiple established photographers will give you an opportunity to learn several things including different techniques with different gear, different philosophical approaches in terms of style, and maybe most importantly different business practices. if you are successful at assisting it will also offer you something that i have found invaluable...a network of working professionals that can provide you with back up for gear and shooters as well as access to jobs when they can't shoot something or don't want to shoot something. i still assist for others to gain access to new types of shooting and to maintain those relationships so that when they refer a job they can't do they call me first. this has been the number one most important thing that has fueled my success transitioning into a main shooter.

the pitfall here is that you have to be completely supportive of whoever you are assisting and NEVER promote yourself under any circumstance. i have seen countless people try to assist but were too eager to be the Man and it showed on other peoples jobs. they faded fast and lost access to that professional network that could have kept them afloat. additionally, i have seen many people try to forgo assisting in favor of running their own business immediately and ultimately they fade away as well (typically in under a year) because they are under prepared and arent aware of the numerous mistakes you can make that will ruin a business faster than you can say bankrupt.

2nd Shooting

i approach this with the mind of an assistant (complete support of the main shooter) but it provides the environment to safely refine your craft as you dont have that direct pressure of having to deliver for a paying client on deadline. 2nd shooting has taught me how to see light better, how to introduce light appropriately into available light, and the full capabilities of my lenses and cameras in a variety of situations. after a couple of years your decision making/problem solving becomes lighting quick. an important asset if you want to be a main shooter.

Advertising 

this one is tricky for me as i have never in my 10+ years advertised myself....not even on facebook. every opportunity i have had has come through word of mouth. that is not to say i dont think advertising isnt important, i am gearing up to do my first run of advertising this off season.

i guess my feeling on this can be summed up by the question What and Who are you advertising? if you are just starting out then it is more than likely that you dont truly know who you are as a photographer and don't really know what kind of photography you are capable of providing in a professional manner. you may say that you want to do family portraits but when you actually get out there and do it you might discover you arent that good at it. if you advertise for that and it turns out not to be your strength then the word-of-mouth machine will work against you pretty quickly. 

again, with a little patience, you can take some time to develop your techniques and style, do jobs in a safe environment, develop a portfolio that is professional that showcases work that YOU KNOW you can deliver competently and THEN advertise who you are and what you do.

there are thousands of other considerations that go into starting a successful business but i will end on this thought. be careful what you wish for. lol. running your own business (successfully) typically means you need to be available 7 days a week at 12+ hours a day....if things go well. running your own business can also mean lengthy dry spells, whether that means not having work for a few weeks to a month or doing jobs that clients are on a 30 to 60 day payment schedule (or worse 90+). because of this unpredictability, i have found it beneficial to remain diversified. i currently assist 4-6 photographers regularly, teach at a university, 2nd shoot for 3 different photographers, and shoot for myself (Weddings, Corporate/Collegiate Events, Architecture/Real estate, and Studio/Location Portraiture). i have in the past also worked at a lab, taught at a 2nd College, been a studio manager, and handled post production for several photographers.

all that being said....i have a really cool freaking job and i feel blessed that i get to do what i do. if you feel that you have this same passion then you will be fine and figure out your own path for success.

good luck!


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## BruinBear (Oct 16, 2012)

PhotoBadger said:


> You could do a lot worse than spend some time reading Keith Cooper's stuff over at Northlight:
> http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/stuff2/?cat=14
> 
> Lots of good stuff about turning pro and running a photography business.
> ...



+1 to this, definitely enjoy photography more as a hobbyist after doing weddings and events


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## RLPhoto (Oct 16, 2012)

KKCFamilyman said:


> I have a 5d3 24-105, 70-200 2.8 is ii, 50mm 1.4. I want to start a photography business shooting family portraits at family outings or where ever they want to shoot. I like Candids and would love to go and capture those moments for families like first days at schools, parties, holidays, etc. just not sure how to get started and if I should do some free work to gain experience, etc. Any suggestions would be helpful.



1. Start a Website, and Show your best work.

2. Hit free social networking sites and expand.

3. Make sure your keyworded for search engines.

4. Call previous clients and inform them about your new business.

5. Get out and exhibit your work locally.

6. Get into stock photography if possible. It brings me steady monthly income.

7. Never shoot for free, but shoot to cover gas at minimum.

These are just basic stuff but much more details can be researched.


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## awinphoto (Oct 16, 2012)

Most everything already has been covered so I'm not going to bother to regurgitate everything everyone else is saying... instead let me say this... have people critique your work.. DO NOT have friends critique, DO NOT critique your own work... have honest people who dont know you critique... other photographers both pro and novice... You will find photographers are far more critical of photography than the general public is, but if there is a glaring problem that you may or may not be seeing, they will be able to find it... Dont forget your shooting not for yourself but for other people... The buyer of said photographs has to love the photo in order for them to buy. Some pro's even have a shot list and shoot just to that shot list... they know what sells, they know what doesn't... that artsy fartsy photo you love may not be loved by the client... Shoot the shots that sell first, then if you have time, do the creative stuff that may or may not sell well and go from there... Lastly, treat it as a business, because frankly, it is. 1 happy customer may tell 1 person how much they loved you... 1 upset customer may tell 10 people how they didn't like you.


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## wickidwombat (Oct 16, 2012)

KKCFamilyman said:


> I have a 5d3 24-105, 70-200 2.8 is ii, 50mm 1.4. I want to start a photography business shooting family portraits at family outings or where ever they want to shoot. I like Candids and would love to go and capture those moments for families like first days at schools, parties, holidays, etc. just not sure how to get started and if I should do some free work to gain experience, etc. Any suggestions would be helpful.



look at risk of sounding like a an ass and dont take this the wrong way, but based on many of your questions on this forum you seem to be a long way from proffessional shooting. 

Think of mastering the camera as merely the very very basics, beyond that there is the ability to direct people this is particularly difficult with non models, there are lots of techniques that can be used to elicit the "look" you are chasing. proffessional models are much easier to deal with as they know how to work the camera. 

Basically its not about the gear but about much more than that.

Definatley see if you can find a local photographer that is interested in a free assistant and while you are assisting pay special attention to how he directs the model and also how they react to certain directions.
being able to direct people the right way is not something everyone can do.

you might be able to second shoot a bit too but use this opportunity to see how they move and interact, the trouble is not many photographers are keen on training their future competition so its a bit catch 22

Remember if you want to shoot people its all about the people how they move what makes the insecure and stiffen up, what makes them relax and let their guard down without breaking down some barriers first you will just get a bunch of mug shots or snap shots. I would also strongly recommend reading everything from joe mcnally and looking at his work.

Good luck dont try jump in boots and all too deep because it might do more damage to your confidence than working up to it slowly.


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## KKCFamilyman (Oct 17, 2012)

Thanks everyone. I was going to do a joint partnership with a more experienced photographer friend. I think for now I am going to look at trying to get an assistant gig. That sounds like a good idea. I have a busy career so not sure when this will be my calling but just want to be heading in the right direction.


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## PeterJ (Oct 17, 2012)

paul13walnut5 said:


> @PeterJ
> 
> 
> > obscure terms like "composition" and "controlling light"
> ...


Thanks, sometimes people don't get my dry humour .


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## paul13walnut5 (Oct 18, 2012)

@PeterJ

Guilty as charged, now *that* is funny!

I guess I read so much stuff like that, that I don't even question it anymore.


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## dirtcastle (Oct 18, 2012)

KKCFamilyman said:


> I have a 5d3 24-105, 70-200 2.8 is ii, 50mm 1.4. I want to start a photography business shooting family portraits at family outings or where ever they want to shoot. I like Candids and would love to go and capture those moments for families like first days at schools, parties, holidays, etc. just not sure how to get started and if I should do some free work to gain experience, etc. Any suggestions would be helpful.



If you're passionate, talented, and entrepreneurial, you'll find a way to make it work.

Otherwise, you'll join the graveyard with the other 99% of photographers who wanted to be a pro photographer (but for whom it didn't work out).


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