# Does anybody think the 1dx price will come down for the holidays...why?



## Northstar (Nov 11, 2012)

Looking to buy a 1dx but wondering about a price drop for the holidays. Does anybody remember from past experience how long after release the 1 series bodies price declined?


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 11, 2012)

Unlikely. It's not exactly a consumer product. I asked my Zeiss rep about Christmas specials on confocal microscopes - he laughed.


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## Viggo (Nov 11, 2012)

If remember correctly the mk4 dropped quite å lot much sooner than the 1d X, from my knowledge the 1d X is still limited in stores and I don't really see a reason for it to drop in general. But now even more due to the global price increase from Canon from November..


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## nightbreath (Nov 11, 2012)

Just look at 1D IV price history:







Personally I don't see any reasons to wait. It's not about a thousand of dollars, it can be just 2-3 hundreds, but is that something you are going to wait for?


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## Standard (Nov 11, 2012)

> Looking to buy a 1dx but wondering about a price drop for the holidays. Does anybody remember from past experience how long after release the 1 series bodies price declined?



Seriously, if you're considering the 1D-X as a purchase then I don't think money should be an issue. It's a pro camera for a pro user. It should paid for itself within the first few gigs. And no. I don't think Canon's flagship camera will be dropping in price over the holidays anytime soon.


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## bdunbar79 (Nov 11, 2012)

I don't recall any of Canon's flagships going down in price simply for the holidays.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 11, 2012)

There are deals to save you a few hundred dollars.
http://www.canonpricewatch.com/product/03792/Canon-EOS-1D-X-price.html

Prices drop due to supply and demand. Canon may have a overstock built up, and, as the end of the fiscal Year approaches they need to drop excess stock and show better sales for the stockholders.
Its starting to happen already via ebay sales.


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## charlesa (Nov 11, 2012)

Do not expect any price drops any time soon!


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## jukka (Nov 11, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Unlikely. It's not exactly a consumer product. I asked my Zeiss rep about Christmas specials on confocal microscopes - he laughed.



you can ask for a Nikon or Leica confocal microscope, they maybe have christmas specials


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## Northstar (Nov 11, 2012)

nightbreath said:


> Just look at 1D IV price history:
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This 1d4 history chart that you show is partly why I have this concern....the price dropped about 4-6 months after release, just in time for the holidays. 

Saving $200-$300 is not my concern, it's a drop to $5999 within the next few months that concerns me. Before you say "not gonna happen", just remember that the 5d3 was available for $2999 from reputable dealers in the past few weeks. (and I believe will be available again at that price for the holidays) And that was a 15% drop ($3500 to $2999) A 15% drop in the 1dX put's it at roughly $5999. 

That's $800 and the reason for my concern. I know it's probably wishful thinking...but there's nothing wrong with that, right?


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## Northstar (Nov 11, 2012)

The thing about the Holidays and December(in the USA) is this....people are in the buying mood/mode for large ticket items. Canon (and retailers) know these well documented buying behaviors/attitudes. A price drop for the 1dx and 5d3 would totally make sense IMO. 

Also...December is that month where a business owner or manager might have a little extra money in the budget that can (or must) be spent before year end..."spend it or lose it" happens in business...very common.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 11, 2012)

Northstar said:


> The thing about the Holidays and December(in the USA) is this....people are in the buying mood/mode for large ticket items. Canon (and retailers) know these well documented buying behaviors/attitudes. A price drop for the 1dx and 5d3 would totally make sense IMO.
> 
> Also...December is that month where a business owner or manager might have a little extra money in the budget that can (or must) be spent before year end..."spend it or lose it" happens in business...very common.


You can sometimes negotiate by calling a large dealer (No e-mail, they will not put discounts in writing). Try calling a few who have them in stock.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 12, 2012)

jukka said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Unlikely. It's not exactly a consumer product. I asked my Zeiss rep about Christmas specials on confocal microscopes - he laughed.
> ...



Yeah, but no one has a 63x NA=1.4 Plan Apo objective as good as the one from Zeiss.


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## Northstar (Nov 13, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Northstar said:
> 
> 
> > The thing about the Holidays and December(in the USA) is this....people are in the buying mood/mode for large ticket items. Canon (and retailers) know these well documented buying behaviors/attitudes. A price drop for the 1dx and 5d3 would totally make sense IMO.
> ...



Mt Spokane...your advice was worth two Sandisk 90mbs 16 gb CF cards....thanks.


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## RustyTheGeek (Nov 14, 2012)

My Magic 8 Ball says: _Try Again Later_. Damn. Frickin' Ball! Always pussin' out when I need a straight answer!

Seriously, IMO you *might* save $200-$300 by negotiating or get some extras thrown in free because the dealer wants your business. Someone buying a 1DX is a potential "big fish". Plus it looks good to sell one of those suckers. (Wonder what the profit margin is?)

Northstar, what feature(s) of the 1DX are you looking at that makes you want to replace your 5D3 or add to your inventory of fine cameras? I'm just curious because I gave that same question a lot of thought before I bought my 5D3. Because I use my cameras outdoors a lot, I look at everything I buy as the next broken item due to drop or whatever can happen. Even the 5D3 is a lot of money, more than I really should be spending as a non-pro. Have you rented one? Do you know or discussed it with someone who already has one? What has you excited about it? 

What are the reasons/benefits to buy a 1DX? Well for sure durability, super badass speed and then the incremental differences about ergonomics, metering controls, etc. If you absolutely gotta get that shot of Michael Phelps diving in, 12fps would be nice insurance! However, if someone is paying out of pocket and unless the shots being taken are literally once in a lifetime, my ass is toast if I don't get them, why spend the money? (You can bet I would buy two 1DXs in a minute if my career/reputation was over without shots it could provide. But that rarely happens.) In most cases, I would rather have at most a 5D3 and then several nice L lenses.

Semi-unrelated thought about the definition of "Pros"
As for the comments about pros... I'm not a "pro" but I am a small business owner and I have known some pros over the years. All 'pro' means is someone charges money for their pictures. So I'll go out on a limb and say most pros in the camera ecosystem are small business owners. If you know pro photographers, most are not working with budgets handed down from accounting they have to use or lose. And they usually don't buy anything more than a box of paper clips without mapping out the purchase to fit within the accounting limits of the business. Esp if they have employees. Those pros that buy things on a whim are usually out of business and heavily in debt within a year or two after they've blown that small business loan seed money. Smart business owners are very conservative because it's a lot less stressful at bill paying time and frankly, they would rather eat and buy personal items than have big ticket business assets that might result in a cold house with hungry kids or wives.

Now with that said, there are myriad of other "pro" entities that are not small businesses, they are graphics production houses, ad agencies, publication companies with studios or photographer pools, etc, etc. IMO, those are the entities with large budgets that consider camera equipment as assets and a lot of money gets thrown around so things like a 1DX with 5 L lenses each (or 3, or 5, or 10 sets of them) isn't a camera or a lens, it's just a number on a balance sheet in another dept and a decision is made and the pro photographer (employee, not owner) comes in to work one day and there are 20 cases of goodies sitting in his office.

I assume that when many people on this forum say 'pro' with regard to buying, they automatically think of the latter scenario? (Or they think of the 1% of wealthy individuals that just like to buy expensive toys.) But when I think of 'pro', I think of the first scenario where if a $7000 purchase is made, it better be paid for within the year because baby needs a new pair of shoes!! I bet a lot of _those pros_ buy 5D2 or 5D3 bodies and keep the rest of the money in the bank. As long as their clients love their work, it makes zero diff how the image happened, it just looks lovely. Here are your pictures and my invoice. Thank you!


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## Northstar (Nov 14, 2012)

RustyTheGeek said:


> My Magic 8 Ball says: _Try Again Later_. Damn. Frickin' Ball! Always pussin' out when I need a straight answer!
> 
> Seriously, IMO you *might* save $200-$300 by negotiating or get some extras thrown in free because the dealer wants your business. Someone buying a 1DX is a potential "big fish". Plus it looks good to sell one of those suckers. (Wonder what the profit margin is?)
> 
> ...



I love shooting sports...the 1dx is the best tool for sports by far. I look at it like this, I'll sell the 1dx in 3-4 years (I take extremely good care of my equip) and probably get $4500-5000 for it. So I view the cost as $2000 (6800-4800) for 4 years of ownership.

In today's world of 0% interest on my bank savings account, there's very no "opportunity cost" for moving $6800 out of savings and over to "camera" on my balance sheet....the only cost is the $2000, and up until a year ago i was spending that amount monthly for my kids in daycare.

If I wasn't passionate about shooting sports, then the 5d3 would be plenty of camera for me...I love my 5d3 and will keep it.


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## Dylan777 (Nov 14, 2012)

Northstar said:


> nightbreath said:
> 
> 
> > Just look at 1D IV price history:
> ...



+1.....Count me in for that. I have over 10,000 reward points($500ish cash value) with Crutchfield, that will bring the 1D X down to $5500ish. If this is happen, I might believe in Santa Claus all over again


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## curtisnull (Nov 14, 2012)

Buy it with your American Express card. They will price protect you on it. That's what I did when my 300mm f/2.8L IS II dropped $50 at B&H and when my 5D3 dropped $505 at B&H.


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## RustyTheGeek (Nov 14, 2012)

Northstar said:


> RustyTheGeek said:
> 
> 
> > I assume that when many people on this forum say 'pro' with regard to buying, they automatically think of the latter scenario? (Or they think of the 1% of wealthy individuals that just like to buy expensive toys.) But when I think of 'pro', I think of the first scenario where if a $7000 purchase is made, it better be paid for within the year because baby needs a new pair of shoes!! I bet a lot of _those pros_ buy 5D2 or 5D3 bodies and keep the rest of the money in the bank. As long as their clients love their work, it makes zero diff how the image happened, it just looks lovely. Here are your pictures and my invoice. Thank you!
> ...



Northstar, I love your response. It sounds like you are looking at the really big picture and most folks don't stop to consider the money side. The way our economy is currently running and by its very design, we have to look at our dollars in a monetary system kind of way. Most people don't. It appears that you do. Just don't forget that your plans to sell in the future are still dependent on the camera not getting damaged, stolen or lost in a fire. Don't forget to cover those contingencies. (And I assume you have.) And if I shot sports, esp for a living, I would have a 7D for sure and quite possibly a 1DX eventually which I guess is the point you're at now. Can't wait to hear you got a great deal. Wish you were local, I'd buy you a beer. Have a good day.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 14, 2012)

RustyTheGeek said:


> Just don't forget that your plans to sell in the future are still dependent on the camera not getting damaged, stolen or lost in a fire. Don't forget to cover those contingencies.



That's what insurance is for...


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## RustyTheGeek (Nov 14, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> RustyTheGeek said:
> 
> 
> > Just don't forget that your plans to sell in the future are still dependent on the camera not getting damaged, stolen or lost in a fire. Don't forget to cover those contingencies.
> ...



Yeah, I knew that was probably coming. Insurance is a given and why I added 'And I assume you have' after that statement. It's all good. 

You would be amazed at how often I hear how something wasn't insured because either the insurance was too expensive and lapsed or the _policy wasn't reviewed often and it didn't actually cover the loss_ when the claim was made. Then there is the cost of the deductible. And finally, damage may not be covered at all unless there is a rider on the policy or it's a policy specifically written to cover damage. (Observe premium and deductible rising as I type.) In general, insurance is for large losses, not small ones. Most small repairs or losses are out of pocket because the deductible is too high and the claim will raise the premium anyway. Possible repair on the 1DX could be $400 or $4000. Either way, it will cost $400 - deductible. And that increases the $2000 projected cost at the end when Northstar sells it used. (I probably should have left 'fire' out of the list and then insurance isn't always the best option.)

I wasn't trying to negate his strategy, in fact I applaud his thinking it out that far. I do the same thing. I just wanted to say that that time period between purchase and resale is a big gray area full of risk and possible pitfalls to the outcome. Just like any investment. One must be careful to base a buying decision on the future resale value. I think buying cameras is a lot like buying cars, either new or used. You're buying it to use and eventually you will sell it. Almost like an extended lease or rental except you own the equity. And that is exactly what I think Northstar illustrated with his strategy. The big question is what happens along the way to affect that final cost number at the end. Obviously, it's a rough guess. Here's hoping it becomes a classic collectors' item by then and is worth more than was paid for it!! ;D


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## RustyTheGeek (Nov 14, 2012)

Northstar said:


> ....the only cost is the $2000, and up until a year ago i was spending that amount monthly for my kids in daycare.



BTW, been there, done that!! When it comes to the money side of things, I really envy all those folks with income and no kids. Wow. And that daycare must have been one of those upscale daycare spas I've heard so much about! 

Nah, kidding aside, decent daycare/preschool is really expensive. Which is why we would just put 'em in the back yard with chew toys and water. No wait, that wasn't the kids! Ooops. Sometimes I wonder if there's a difference. Oh yeah, I usually don't want to beat disown scream at the dog as much. Did I mention my kids are teenagers now?


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 14, 2012)

@RustyTheGeek - great points!



RustyTheGeek said:


> You would be amazed at how often I hear how something wasn't insured because either the insurance was too expensive and lapsed or the _policy wasn't reviewed often and it didn't actually cover the loss_ when the claim was made. Then there is the cost of the deductible. And finally, damage may not be covered at all unless there is a rider on the policy or it's a policy specifically written to cover damage.



Sadly, I would not be surprised. Many people think their homeowner's or renter's policy will cover their gear - and it will, to a point, and subject to a deductible.

But most insurers offer riders or supplemental policies (e.g. State Farm calls it a 'Personal Articles' policy, can cover camera gear, jewelry, fine art, etc.). *Always read the policy!* Mine applies worldwide, covers damage, theft, loss, etc., and has no deductible. I pay $7.60 per year per $1000 gear covered.

One other common omission is not notifying your insurer when you get new gear. Usually, a serial number of documentation of purchase is required. For me, I have 30 days from purchase as a 'grace period' when the new item is covered, by then I need to have notified them.



RustyTheGeek said:


> Most small repairs or losses are out of pocket because the deductible is too high and the claim will raise the premium anyway. Possible repair on the 1DX could be $400 or $4000. Either way, it will cost $400 - deductible. And that increases the $2000 projected cost at the end when Northstar sells it used. (I probably should have left 'fire' out of the list and then insurance isn't always the best option.)



As I said, no deductible for me, and in fact from what I've seen here and on other boards about multiple insurers (at least in the US), most such policies have no deductible, at least the personal ones (people who earn $ from photography are generally not eligible for such policies, and would need liability coverage, etc.).

I think the rise of premiums following a claim is a concern, but even more than that, many people don't realize that all such claims are reported to a centralized database (CLUE) that can affect eligibility for coverage in general. Too many camera gear claims, and you may lose your home insurance.


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## Northstar (Nov 14, 2012)

RustyTheGeek said:


> Northstar said:
> 
> 
> > ....the only cost is the $2000, and up until a year ago i was spending that amount monthly for my kids in daycare.
> ...



years of spending for daycare and other kids expenses loosened up my wallet quite a bit when it comes to my spending attitude....of course it also lessened my wallet quite a bit too. 

I'm pretty excited for Friday...I'm expecting the X and the new hero gopro 3 to both arrive that day. I have a feeling that the gopro is going to be whole ton of fun.

insurance is a must...thanks for reminding me to call my guy.


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## Northstar (Nov 14, 2012)

> +1.....Count me in for that. I have over 10,000 reward points($500ish cash value) with Crutchfield, that will bring the 1D X down to $5500ish. If this is happen, I might believe in Santa Claus all over again



dylan...$5500 would be a damn good price...good luck on that....as I said $5999 wouldn't surprise me.


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## Northstar (Nov 14, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> @RustyTheGeek - great points!
> 
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neuro...I also use State FArm and I agree...it's very affordable and makes tons of sense. no deductible.


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## bkorcel (Nov 14, 2012)

For a numbers of reasons I suspect (including just being Canon), I would expect the 1DX price to go up or hold steady. Not necessarily due to any internal Canon factors but simply due to currency exchange. If our dollar in the US continues to be devalued, it will take more of them to purchase imported products. the current political extension here should continue to dictate printing more money as a "solution" to ongoing financial crisis.

I would buy now and as one person pointed out, try to use a credit card with price protection. However be careful, any savings you might get from such protection may get lost in interest payments if you use a high interest rate credit card. You need to do the math for you particular situation, particularly if you do not intend to pay off the balance incurred before interest starts stacking up on you.

You can also use a rebate credit card and get some of that back. Even 1% might make up any online discount price offered to move inventory.


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## Northstar (Nov 14, 2012)

> Can't wait to hear you got a great deal. Wish you were local, I'd buy you a beer. Have a good day.



Rusty...

I haggled with three of them(online retailers) over the phone but the best deal I could get was a couple 16GB CF SNDisk Extreme pro's. 

I'd take you up on that beer...I'm a fellow geek.


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## RustyTheGeek (Nov 14, 2012)

Ditto, we have State Farm too!

That firehose of cash your kids require won't trickle for long, it will likely flow faster soon enough. And as they get older, you will progressively lose more and more of your personal time to them. That's why I shoot boy scouts, school swim meets, choir, church, etc. It's really just a way do enjoy my hobby while I spend time with them. (And hopefully provide others with meaningful pictures while I try to improve my photography with a lot of shooting material.)

Northstar, let me know how the GoPro works for you! Keep in mind it's strength is video, the stills will be only fair at best. I have the Canon D10 and D20 rugged cams and love them for hiking but have considered the GoPro at some point to mount somewhere and get some occasional video. As big and heavy as the 1DX is, just mount the GoPro to the hotshoe and use it to get companion video and sound to go along with your stills. Here's what that tackle sounded like when he broke his clavicle! Ouch! (Ha!)


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 14, 2012)

Northstar said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
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Did you check the link I posted??
Now there are 4 dealers that have dropped their price by a few hundred. Down to $6348 or $6445 from PMI, a authorized dealer. Did you call PMI??

http://www.canonpricewatch.com/product/03792/Canon-EOS-1D-X-price.html


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## RustyTheGeek (Nov 14, 2012)

Northstar said:


> > Can't wait to hear you got a great deal. Wish you were local, I'd buy you a beer. Have a good day.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That sounds pretty decent to me! 12 fps is going to have to go somewhere very quickly. Since your 5D3 seems to work well, let me know when you sell it. 

BTW, where does 'Northstar' come from? Because FSR I can't get Spaceballs' Bill Pullman out of my head every time I read it! Please tell me you resemble Bill Pullman! Ha, ha! ;D


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## Jay Khaos (Nov 14, 2012)

I think the price of the 5D mkiii was pushed down quicker than it might have been if the D800 did not exist for $500 less (originally anyway) and the high megapixel sensor. The 1dx does not have as clearcut of a rival from Nikon, so I think the price will stay for a while..


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## dolina (Nov 14, 2012)

The 1D4 never went below $5,000 on BH through the life of the product.


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## jcns (Nov 14, 2012)

Like asking if you can afford the monthly payments on Porsche 911.
or
if you have to ask, you can't afford it


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## Northstar (Nov 15, 2012)

RustyTheGeek said:


> Northstar said:
> 
> 
> > > Can't wait to hear you got a great deal. Wish you were local, I'd buy you a beer. Have a good day.
> ...



Rusty...."Northstar"...did you ever follow a NHL hockey?


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## RustyTheGeek (Nov 15, 2012)

Northstar said:


> jcns said:
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> 
> > Like asking if you can afford the monthly payments on Porsche 911.
> ...



I've read it. Now I see why we think alike. Make that two beers I'll buy you. But after that it's your turn!


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## Northstar (Nov 15, 2012)

RustyTheGeek said:


> Northstar said:
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> > jcns said:
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funny..when we get to six beers just send me a six pack ;D

i hope your next 5d3 performs as good as mine does. i've never sent anything back that i've bought online, how has that gone? do they wait to send the new one until after they receive the returned camera?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 15, 2012)

dolina said:


> The 1D4 never went below $5,000 on BH through the life of the product.


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## Northstar (Nov 15, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Northstar said:
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> > Mt Spokane Photography said:
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I only felt comfortable at this price level dealing with the most respected online retailers like Ad, BH..etc. I didn't check PMI.

I appreciate your post though because I wasn't aware of the canonpricewatch website...now i have it saved.


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## RustyTheGeek (Nov 15, 2012)

Northstar said:


> RustyTheGeek said:
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> > Northstar said:
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I got it through eBay on one of those steal deals from Beach Camera. I've never purchased from Beach before but when I called them directly, their phone rep was extremely helpful, no BS and sent a RMA and FedEx barcode to my email while we spoke. I sent it back that Monday, it arrived there today and he said he would try to get the replacement sent back out to me same day. I had the option of buying another on on Monday and getting a refund when they received the defective one on return but since I paid such a good price, he couldn't do the refund without me losing the difference. So it is just a straight exchange. So I'm halfway through this but so far, they have been as good with it as you could hope/expect. My fingers are still crossed.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Nov 15, 2012)

Northstar said:


> Looking to buy a 1dx but wondering about a price drop for the holidays. Does anybody remember from past experience how long after release the 1 series bodies price declined?



I doubt it. It's not exactly a stocking stuffer!

If it comes down at some point it will because they are under pressure and nothing to do with holidays.
A Rebel, perhaps holidays might come into play.


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## dolina (Nov 15, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> dolina said:
> 
> 
> > The 1D4 never went below $5,000 on BH through the life of the product.


The chart is suspect. It states the price is between 4600-4700 until today and yet shops like BH and Adorama do not have it on stock.

Either way the price of the 1D4 dipped nearing EOL. The 1D X started to ship in June this year. Give it 2 or so more years before Canon decides to slash the price by 7%.

Remember guys the 1-Series bodies has always made up around 1% of all EOS body manufactured monthly.


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## RustyTheGeek (Nov 15, 2012)

RustyTheGeek said:


> Northstar said:
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> > RustyTheGeek said:
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One more tick of hope: Tech rep from Beach called me personally to let me know the replacement 5D3 has been carefully packed and sent out via FedEx today (same day) so I should receive it by Mon or Tues. Top notch service if you ask me. Fingers still crossed!


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## dave (Nov 16, 2012)

Standard said:


> > Looking to buy a 1dx but wondering about a price drop for the holidays. Does anybody remember from past experience how long after release the 1 series bodies price declined?
> 
> 
> 
> Seriously, if you're considering the 1D-X as a purchase then I don't think money should be an issue. It's a pro camera for a pro user. It should paid for itself within the first few gigs. And no. I don't think Canon's flagship camera will be dropping in price over the holidays anytime soon.



Seriously, that is garbage. 

I don't make money off my photography but will buy a 1Dx when I holiday in the US (cheaper than Australia - oh the shame) because of the subjects I like to photograph and how good the camera is. However, simply paying whatever the asking price is without considering it...no, that is ludicrous.

Suppose you do actually have a budget:

Based on fairly commonly had prices...

5D3 at $2800
200 f/2 at 5999 

Total $8800

1Dx at 6700
70-200mm f/2,8 ii $2100

Total $8800

For $8800 the first combination would slaughter the second for certain uses and vice versa. You buy gear that meets your needs. I am sorry if I am not a pro, but I actually try to buy things that will help improve MY photos the most.


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## Northstar (Nov 16, 2012)

need some help from some of you more experienced camera and lens buyers. I rcvd my 1dx today, and the actual 1dx box has several scratches and marks all over it, and a slightly crushed in corner. (not the shipping box, the 1dx box inside has the scratches/marks)

for $6700, i expected the box to look like it's hardly been touched, this box looks like it's been touched quite a bit....I'm anal this way, because I know I'll sell it in 3-4 years and I want the box to look new.

also...the 1dx box came inside a plastic bag. This plastic bag was clearly opened and then taped shut. I'm wondering if the 1dx normally ships with the plastic bag unopened so the customer knows that it indeed is brand new and unopened. I would've felt much better about the box being a little dinged up if this internal plastic bag had been unopened...but with it open, it makes me think that the body has been in and out of the box a few times, or the real concern - it's been bought and returned from some previous buyer. i do not want this body if someone else had it and returned it....not at this price.

the camera itself looks perfect (I haven't used it yet) but the other question I have is how can I tell if it's been used? Is there an actuations counter in the camera?

again...i know i'm being a bit anal on this, but for $6700, i don't want to settle, and I want the full value for my money....and I don't want to have any lingering reservations.

I'd really appreciate your candid thoughts on this....am I making too big a deal about this?

neuro...especially appreciate your thoughts on this.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 16, 2012)

Northstar said:


> need some help from some of you more experienced camera and lens buyers. I rcvd my 1dx today, and the actual 1dx box has several scratches and marks all over it, and a slightly crushed in corner. (not the shipping box, the 1dx box inside has the scratches/marks)
> 
> for $6700, i expected the box to look like it's hardly been touched, this box looks like it's been touched quite a bit....I'm anal this way, because I know I'll sell it in 3-4 years and I want the box to look new.
> 
> ...



My box was pristine. The camera itself was in a form-fitting white anti-static bag, which was in turn inside a bubble-wrap bag that was neatly folded-over (I don't recall any tape, but I might be wrong - I did save a long piece of orange-ish tape, but I don't recall that that was on the camera bag, it's 1" wide and 6" long). The double-bagged body was inside a separate cardboard box inside the main box (bad iPhone pic attached).

There is an actuation counter, but it's in units of 1000, so it will just say <1000 unless it's over that mark. 

If the box was dinged up and everything was not wrapped neatly inside, I'd be concerned that I got a unit someone else bought and returned. I've had something similar happen with an Amazon purchase (not camera gear) and I returned it. I've never received an obvious returned item from B&H or Adorama.


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## Northstar (Nov 16, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Northstar said:
> 
> 
> > need some help from some of you more experienced camera and lens buyers. I rcvd my 1dx today, and the actual 1dx box has several scratches and marks all over it, and a slightly crushed in corner. (not the shipping box, the 1dx box inside has the scratches/marks)
> ...



neuro...it was from adoram. the box is definitely "marked up" with one crushed corner. everything inside the box looks perfect...BUT...the 1dx box itself came inside a clear plastic bag that looked like it was sealed at one time, sealed in a way that a buyer would know that the box itself was never touched or opened because of the sealed clear bag. in my case, the bag was opened...do you remember such a bag?


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 16, 2012)

No, I don't. Was there the white dust sack? I've bought 4 Canon bodies, all of them were in such a bag. Out from that white bag was the bubble wrap bag then the cardboard inner box. I don't recall a larger plastic bag, and there's not one in the packaging that I saved (cords, strap, and manuals were in sealed plastic bags - still are, actually).


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## bkorcel (Nov 16, 2012)

Adorama usually packs their equipment in a plastic bag to make sure it is protected somewhat against water damage. You would freak out if you saw how these get shipped to distributors from Canon. I would think the 1DX being in limited distribution probably is not shipped in a case carton. They pack them with other canon stuff in a brown box and send it on it's way.

If you really wanted a pristine box, I bet you could call Canon and arrange to have one shipped to you. I don't believe there are any proprietary secrets there.



Northstar said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Northstar said:
> ...


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## Northstar (Nov 16, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> No, I don't. Was there the white dust sack? I've bought 4 Canon bodies, all of them were in such a bag. Out from that white bag was the bubble wrap bag then the cardboard inner box. I don't recall a larger plastic bag, and there's not one in the packaging that I saved (cords, strap, and manuals were in sealed plastic bags - still are, actually).



yes...what you describe is there (bubble wrap and white dust sack) thanks for your quick response and help.


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## Northstar (Nov 16, 2012)

bkorcel said:


> Adorama usually packs their equipment in a plastic bag to make sure it is protected somewhat against water damage. You would freak out if you saw how these get shipped to distributors from Canon. I would think the 1DX being in limited distribution probably is not shipped in a case carton. They pack them with other canon stuff in a brown box and send it on it's way.
> 
> If you really wanted a pristine box, I bet you could call Canon and arrange to have one shipped to you. I don't believe there are any proprietary secrets there.
> 
> ...



bkor....case carton...please explain


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 16, 2012)

Northstar said:


> the 1dx box itself came inside a clear plastic bag that looked like it was sealed at one time, sealed in a way that a buyer would know that the box itself was never touched or opened because of the sealed clear bag. in my case, the bag was opened...do you remember such a bag?



Sorry, I misunderstood. You're saying that the large, main carton (black with the 1D X logo on it) was in a larger plastic bag? No, mine definitely was not (ordered from B&H). None of my bodies have been (from Amazon or B&H). Sounds like an Adorama thing, as bkorcel suggests. 

It's not a bad idea - if it's actually raining, when UPS delivers to my home they'll usually put the shipping box in a plastic bag when they leave, but if it's not raining, they won't - and maybe it'll start raining later. (Note - I always have my camera gear delivered to work, where there's an indoor loading dock and always someone to sign.)


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 16, 2012)

I put boxes like that inside a bag during cold and rainy weather. you never know if a package will get wet. However, Canon does not ship them in a bag, they are sent in cases of about 6.


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## Northstar (Nov 16, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I put boxes like that inside a bag during cold and rainy weather. you never know if a package will get wet. However, Canon does not ship them in a bag, they are sent in cases of about 6.



It's good to know about the bag. That's one less thing to worry about. 

Mt, sounds like you're in the business of selling cameras? If so, what are your thoughts on a marked up and scratched box with one crushed in corner as I described above?

Again, my main concern is just that the condition of the box makes it appear that it's been handled quite a bit, which makes me believe the camera could have been used and returned. Adorama has a no questions asked return policy so I'm sure they get plenty of cameras returned...and I'm assuming they just sell them again as "new", as long as everything has been carefully placed back in the box to make it appear new.

Also, after google searching, it doesn't appear that there's any way to accurately determine the shutter count of the camera ....anybody know?


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 16, 2012)

Northstar said:


> Also, after google searching, it doesn't appear that there's any way to accurately determine the shutter count of the camera ....anybody know?



I highly recommend Reikan FoCal for doing AFMA. But as a side benefit, it shows the shutter count.


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## Northstar (Nov 16, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Northstar said:
> 
> 
> > Also, after google searching, it doesn't appear that there's any way to accurately determine the shutter count of the camera ....anybody know?
> ...



Thanks Neuro...good to know.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 16, 2012)

Northstar said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > I put boxes like that inside a bag during cold and rainy weather. you never know if a package will get wet. However, Canon does not ship them in a bag, they are sent in cases of about 6.
> ...


I have a online store, and ship lots of electronics, but I only sell my own used cameras. I put things in plastic bags whenever water is a danger.
Boxes get marked, scratched, and crushed in shipping. Their job is to protect the camera inside. I would not worry about that, it happens.
B&H asks you to return all the parts and pieces in their original box. They do not ask you to make it look unused, since it goes back to canon to be refurbished. Federal law prohibits selling a used camera as new.
A 1DX can display the actual shutter count. See pg 385 of your manual.
System Status Display Function Provides Critical Information
For optimal camera maintenance, The EOS-1D X's new System Status Display Function offers pertinent information about the camera's use and condition. In addition to displaying the camera's serial number and firmware version, the System Status Monitor also displays the total number of shutter release cycles (in thousands), a camera error log, which lists errors that may warrant service


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 16, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> A 1DX can display the actual shutter count. See pg 385 of your manual.
> System Status Display Function Provides Critical Information
> For optimal camera maintenance, The EOS-1D X's new System Status Display Function offers pertinent information about the camera's use and condition. In addition to displaying the camera's serial number and firmware version, the System Status Monitor also displays the total number of shutter release cycles (*in thousands*), a camera error log, which lists errors that may warrant service



Since the display is in thousands, that will only help the OP if the camera was previously used to take 1000 shots or more. If it's taken zero shots or 999 shots, it will display ≤1000. Right now, mine says ≤ 10000. It's not very granular, but then, given the expected life of 400K release cycles, it probably doesn't need to be very granular.


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## Northstar (Nov 16, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > A 1DX can display the actual shutter count. See pg 385 of your manual.
> ...



Ultimately, my main concern is that somebody else used it a little while and then returned it. I suppose i could take 50 actuations at a time up to 1000 and watch the <1000 counter and hope it doesnt change until i get to 1000.

If i do this then ill know for sure its never been used. Mtspokane, its good to know about the fed law....and also your perspective on boxes etc. Thx


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## Dwight (Nov 17, 2012)

Hello everyone! Been lurking on this wonderful forum for several months now. I should say I've learned so many things from a lot of the members...especially the senior (don't mean the age  ) members.

I realize the topic of this thread and I apologize in advance to the OP and to everyone for jumping in on this thread. Didn't wanna create another thread. The discussion veered off from any possible discounts on the 1D X for the holidays to the OP getting his/her camera that to his/her eyes "looks perfect" but have "lingering reservations" due to the condition of the 1D X box.

To the OP, you and I ordered almost the same time. Ordered from B&H Wed. night and got my new toy today. Cutting to the chase, first, the shipping box (brown box that B&H packed my 1D X in) was undamaged and bone dry (been raining intermittently in SoCal). Next, my black 1D X box, like the OP observed on his, had a few scratches and marks all around it and a slightly dented outer bottom corner. Personally, I wasn't really concerned with all this, although just like any other adult buying an expensive new toy, believe me, I'm anal about the packaging as well. The thing that I'm most concerned about (I know, I finally get to the cusp of my dilemma huh ;D ) is that the plastic packaging of the manuals [i.e. Instruction Manual (English/Spanish), LAN Instruction Manual (English/Spanish), Pocket Guides) was open. Mind you, it was not ripped...it was neatly cut open on one of its long side (the plastic packaging is rectangular looking from the top). Everything else in the box, including the box/compartment for the camera was neat and intact and as far as I could tell the camera and its accessories were all untouched. Knowing that actuation counter couldn't give a more precise number, here's what I thought. I thought maybe Canon or B&H opened the box and cut the Instruction Manuals' packaging open to replace the manuals with the updated manual (CPH-E011-002) after the 1.1.1 firmware update. Sadly, I have the old manual (CPH-E011-001). Had I received the new manual, my dilemma would have been put to rest right there and then. Now, may I ask everyone's opinion on this and how you personally would deal with this situation...if this had happened to your camera, would you exchange it? Would you take it to Canon (Irvine's a 45 min. drive from my place) to have them get the exact actuation count on my camera (if this is even possible)? Or are you just gonna live with it thinking that the plastic packaging might have been "ripped" in transit through the supply chain?

I apologize again for a very long-winded first post. If you have read this far, I truly appreciate your time and patience. Thank you in advance for your thoughts on this.


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## Northstar (Nov 17, 2012)

> Dwight said:
> 
> 
> > Hello everyone! Been lurking on this wonderful forum for several months now. I should say I've learned so many things from a lot of the members...especially the senior (don't mean the age  ) members.
> ...



dwight...as you've read, I know exactly how you feel. with a lens of this price, the box should come sealed in a high strength plastic bag that has some sort of "canon seal" on the bag that indicates that it was factory wrapped and sealed....so guys like us (and I'm sure there are many others) would know that they are getting a factory sealed and wrapped 1DX that has never played "played with" by a store employee or another customer.  For their "pro line flagship" camera at this price, this is just the way it should be.

I'm going to continue with my check the actuations count strategy every 50 shots up to the <1000 counter on the 1DX ....and I'm keeping my fingers crossed that when I get to 800, 900, and especially 999, that it still says less <1000. 

For your plastic bag situation.. I share your concern. I guess I would inspect the camera very carefully under bright lights to look for anything suspicious....and then maybe follow a similar strategy as me. it's either that or return it...and like I said, I wouldn't blame you for returning it.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 17, 2012)

Northstar said:


> ...with a lens of this price, the box should come sealed in a high strength plastic bag that has some sort of "canon seal" on the bag that indicates that it was factory wrapped and sealed....



You just have to spend more...my 600 II came in factory-sealed packaging.


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## Dwight (Nov 18, 2012)

Northstar said:


> > Dwight said:
> >
> >
> > > Hello everyone! Been lurking on this wonderful forum for several months now. I should say I've learned so many things from a lot of the members...especially the senior (don't mean the age  ) members.
> ...



Thanks for your reply and insight, Northstar. Were you witholding information from us?  Did you leave out the part where you bought a new flaghip lens with your flagship body? 

Totally agree...on a flagship body, the box should be stretch wrapped. Having said that, none of my DSLR bodies' boxes (the 1D X is my first 1-Series body) have ever been sealed nor wrapped . The only ones that are sealed (not by Canon, but by the retailer), IIRC, were PnS cams bought from Fry's and Best Buy (no idea if they're still doing this).

I think your actuations count strategy is a good plan. In my case, I can't do that without going over B&H exchange policy of 200 actuations. For me, like I've said, Canon Irvine is about a 45min. drive away. I'm gonna give them a call on Monday and see if they can get help me get the exact actuation count. Anyone have previous experiences with this type of service from Canon Irvine, feel free to chime in.

I did inspect everything. I started to get very curious once I saw the open plastic packaging on the manuals. The anal side of me kicked in. In my case, when I opened the lid on the 1D X black box, the first item was the reg. card, then the CDs, then the manuals...all in the top compartment. Once I popped those and the cardboard out, there was the camera box and to my right was a space/slot for the neckstrap (in its own bag), eyepiece and cable protector (in their own bag). I guess I should've done an unboxing vid. Though I know you all are gonna be so thrilled about it! ;D Everything from there on out was pristine. No fingerprints. No dust on the LCDs and eyepiece. No unraveled cables. Not even a misaligned anti-static bag flap nor a bubble wrap flap...did I tell you I was anal?!  Once I took out the 1D X compartment, I got to the A/V cables, battery, and charger. Everything was totally in check yet again. I would appreciate it if others would chime in on their experiences and thoughts on this.

Just to add something to what Neuro had said, in regards to the 1" x 6" yellow tape, on mine, it was on the battery charger (to hold the battery slot covers in place). Also, adding to what a couple of people have already mentioned in regards to the plastic bag used to protect against water and moisture, I can confirm that Adorama does this. Those bags are never sealed...they're just regular commercial-grade plastics bags. I do not recall having received any products from B&H in the past that had this plastic bag. Hope that helps.


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## Northstar (Nov 18, 2012)

Dwight said:


> Northstar said:
> 
> 
> > > Dwight said:
> ...




Dwight...your description of how it was packaged was exactly the same as mine


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## Dwight (Nov 18, 2012)

Northstar said:


> Dwight said:
> 
> 
> > Northstar said:
> ...



Northstar, that's great! Good to know! I'm really trying to be conservative with my actuations (it's killing me) so I don't go over B&H's exchange/return policy of "less than 200 exposures". Won't be able to report my "issue" to B&H till Mon. Love the camera! Now I totally grasp what a 1D body is all about. I'm still torn whether or not this "issue" is something to lose sleep over and do all the tedious legwork (consequently missing out on the chance to put it through its paces in the interim) or to get past the "issue" and just enjoy this great piece of engineering for what it is and for what it has to offer everyone who has had the privilege to shoot with a 1D X.

Notwithstanding your "issue", how are you liking yours so far, Northstar? Perhaps it's now a good time to start a separate thread for those that just got theirs?


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## Northstar (Nov 18, 2012)

> I did inspect everything. I started to get very curious once I saw the open plastic packaging on the manuals. The anal side of me kicked in. In my case, when I opened the lid on the 1D X black box, the first item was the reg. card, then the CDs, then the manuals...all in the top compartment. Once I popped those and the cardboard out, there was the camera box and to my right was a space/slot for the neckstrap (in its own bag), eyepiece and cable protector (in their own bag). I guess I should've done an unboxing vid. Though I know you all are gonna be so thrilled about it! ;D Everything from there on out was pristine. No fingerprints. No dust on the LCDs and eyepiece. No unraveled cables. Not even a misaligned anti-static bag flap nor a bubble wrap flap...did I tell you I was anal?!  Once I took out the 1D X compartment, I got to the A/V cables, battery, and charger. Everything was totally in check yet again. I would appreciate it if others would chime in on their experiences and thoughts on this.
> 
> Just to add something to what Neuro had said, in regards to the 1" x 6" yellow tape, on mine, it was on the battery charger (to hold the battery slot covers in place). Also, adding to what a couple of people have already mentioned in regards to the plastic bag used to protect against water and moisture, I can confirm that Adorama does this. Those bags are never sealed...they're just regular commercial-grade plastics bags. I do not recall having received any products from B&H in the past that had this plastic bag. Hope that helps.


[/quote]


Dwight...the way you described your 1DX packaging is the same as mine...to the letter. only difference is that my manuals were in a sealed bag. 

If it comforts you at all, I hit the 1000 shutter count today when I went to shoot some basketball and hockey. I carefully watched the <1000 shutter count the entire time....it changed exactly at 1001. (the camera menu actually reads less than or equal to 1000) So, my 1DX was untouched and never shot. whew!

I'm pretty happy at this point because this camera is INCREDIBLE! WOW. Again, for sports, the 1DX's speed and quick AF are just incredible. For almost all other types of still shooting, the 5D3 is just as good from what I'm seeing....maybe wedding receptions the 1DX would be better too.


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## Dwight (Nov 18, 2012)

Northstar said:


> > I did inspect everything. I started to get very curious once I saw the open plastic packaging on the manuals. The anal side of me kicked in. In my case, when I opened the lid on the 1D X black box, the first item was the reg. card, then the CDs, then the manuals...all in the top compartment. Once I popped those and the cardboard out, there was the camera box and to my right was a space/slot for the neckstrap (in its own bag), eyepiece and cable protector (in their own bag). I guess I should've done an unboxing vid. Though I know you all are gonna be so thrilled about it! ;D Everything from there on out was pristine. No fingerprints. No dust on the LCDs and eyepiece. No unraveled cables. Not even a misaligned anti-static bag flap nor a bubble wrap flap...did I tell you I was anal?!  Once I took out the 1D X compartment, I got to the A/V cables, battery, and charger. Everything was totally in check yet again. I would appreciate it if others would chime in on their experiences and thoughts on this.
> >
> > Just to add something to what Neuro had said, in regards to the 1" x 6" yellow tape, on mine, it was on the battery charger (to hold the battery slot covers in place). Also, adding to what a couple of people have already mentioned in regards to the plastic bag used to protect against water and moisture, I can confirm that Adorama does this. Those bags are never sealed...they're just regular commercial-grade plastics bags. I do not recall having received any products from B&H in the past that had this plastic bag. Hope that helps.




Dwight...the way you described your 1DX packaging is the same as mine...to the letter. only difference is that my manuals were in a sealed bag. 

If it comforts you at all, I hit the 1000 shutter count today when I went to shoot some basketball and hockey. I carefully watched the <1000 shutter count the entire time....it changed exactly at 1001. (the camera menu actually reads less than or equal to 1000) So, my 1DX was untouched and never shot. whew!

I'm pretty happy at this point because this camera is INCREDIBLE! WOW. Again, for sports, the 1DX's speed and quick AF are just incredible. For almost all other types of still shooting, the 5D3 is just as good from what I'm seeing....maybe wedding receptions the 1DX would be better too.
[/quote]

Yup, not really losing sleep over the open bag. Though I feel agitated, the look and feel of the 1D X are alleviating all that at the moment...and the images are, as you've said, incredible too! ;D Having shot less than a hundred, in lowlight, I can honestly (not stretching the truth nor fooling myself) say its got a 2/3-stop advantage over my 5DMk3. No doubt, I'm happy in that regard. I'm not gonna make a big stink out of this. Maybe the bag ripped inside the box during shipping? Who knows?! I didn't think the plastic bag was very sturdy...I haphazardly ripped the other long side of the said plastic bag trying to get to the 'LAN Instruction Manual' and 'Pocket Guide' which, as you know, is at the bottom of the pile (if you were looking at the plastic bag from the cover page of the 'Instruction Manual'). Though that might've been just me being a total klutz! Inspecting each and every manual/guide, absolutely none of them had any creases on their spine. I can't imagine a situation where someone would just cut the plastic bag open [remember, mine looked like it was neatly cut (with a scissor or cutter)...as opposed to being ripped willy-nilly], and then all of a sudden have a change of heart (without even checking out the rest of the goods in the box) and decide to return the 1D X...it's a 1D X...for crying out loud...it ain't an impulse-buy gizmo! 8)

On another note, I'm totally digging the max/min setting for aperture and shutter. Those are totally invaluable for my needs...in addition to spot metering on any AF point and combo of AF points. I now realize why photographers, who had been shooting with 1D-series body/bodies, swear by them and would not be caught red-handed with anything less! 

Thanks for your insights, Northstar!


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## Dwight (Nov 18, 2012)

BTW, Northstar, you should update your sig now. As for me, haven't gotten around to try and figure out how to put up a sig...will soon.


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## Northstar (Nov 18, 2012)

Dwight said:


> BTW, Northstar, you should update your sig now. As for me, haven't gotten around to try and figure out how to put up a sig...will soon.



Done, thanks D!


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## Northstar (Nov 18, 2012)

For the record....Adorama took my concern seriously (I sent several close up pics) and I was contacted by a rep. They offered me the opportunity to send it back free of charge.

So I would have to give Adorama credit for how they handled my concern, and I'll continue to buy from them.


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## RustyTheGeek (Nov 18, 2012)

Northstar said:


> For the record....Adorama took my concern seriously (I sent several close up pics) and I was contacted by a rep. They offered me the opportunity to send it back free of charge.
> 
> So I would have to give Adorama credit for how they handled my concern, and I'll continue to buy from them.



So does that mean you are going to return it, get a new box or just forget it assuming they assured you it was indeed new? (Just curious.)


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## Dwight (Nov 19, 2012)

Northstar said:


> For the record....Adorama took my concern seriously (I sent several close up pics) and I was contacted by a rep. They offered me the opportunity to send it back free of charge.
> 
> So I would have to give Adorama credit for how they handled my concern, and I'll continue to buy from them.



I'm glad to know Adorama is taking care of you. They're great. So is B&H. Really haven't had any serious issues dealing with either of them in the past.

As for me, I'm waiting till tomorrow to give B&H a call and see how to move forward on this. If I get some downtime this week, might also swing by Canon Irvine. I'll keep you posted, Northstar. Do keep me posted as well. Thanks.


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## Dwight (Nov 19, 2012)

RustyTheGeek said:


> Northstar said:
> 
> 
> > For the record....Adorama took my concern seriously (I sent several close up pics) and I was contacted by a rep. They offered me the opportunity to send it back free of charge.
> ...



They haven't assured me anything just yet. Haven't corresponded with them...will wait till tom. I'm torn right now, to be honest...happy with the camera...not quite with the open plastic bag.


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## bycostello (Nov 19, 2012)

day after maybe... but no way bofore


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## Dwight (Nov 19, 2012)

bycostello said:


> day after maybe... but no way bofore



Wait, bycostello, were you saying B&H is closed tomorrow?


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## Dwight (Nov 19, 2012)

Dwight said:


> Northstar said:
> 
> 
> > For the record....Adorama took my concern seriously (I sent several close up pics) and I was contacted by a rep. They offered me the opportunity to send it back free of charge.
> ...



Northstar, sorry but I just need to ask you a quick q. When you said, "They offered me the opportunity to send it back free of charge.", did you mean Adorama is going to cover shipping both ways of your 1D X replacement (if you decide to take that route) *in addition to* the shipping charges you had paid for your current 1D X will be credited back as well? I ask because I opted for overnight shipping on mine and that costed a pretty penny (NY to CA). I will definitely choose overnight shipping on my replacement (if I decide to take that route). I'm wondering if I should try and ask to recoup that. I'm not a hard customer to deal with and don't want to push the envelope in regards to what kind of concessions B&H can, would, and should offer me as remuneration for my "issue". Thanks in advance, Northstar.


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## Northstar (Nov 19, 2012)

RustyTheGeek said:


> Northstar said:
> 
> 
> > For the record....Adorama took my concern seriously (I sent several close up pics) and I was contacted by a rep. They offered me the opportunity to send it back free of charge.
> ...




Rusty...a few posts back I described how I worked the <1000 shutter count strategy to find out my 1dx had never been used. So for now, I'm happy and it appears everything is fine.(other than having a beat up box for resale someday)


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## Northstar (Nov 19, 2012)

Dwight said:


> Dwight said:
> 
> 
> > Northstar said:
> ...



Dwight....it appears that it's ground shipping both ways free....I honestly haven't thought about it too much though because the camera seems just fine and I'm keeping it.


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## Dwight (Nov 19, 2012)

Northstar said:


> Dwight said:
> 
> 
> > Dwight said:
> ...



Thanks for sharing your experience with Adorama. I shall see where my fate takes me in terms of dealing with B&H later. My gut tells me to just look past the plastic bag and look through the lens more! Man, this whole shutter-counting and deliberately being conservative with actuations is absolutely killing me! Keep having fun and keep shooting, Northstar!


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## Northstar (Nov 19, 2012)

Dwight said:


> Northstar said:
> 
> 
> > Dwight said:
> ...



As Mt Spokane wrote, it's against federal law to resell a used camera as new....this put my mind at ease a little more. Also, with BH's good reputation and the law, I would doubt that its been used....but understand your concern. 

I know they have a 200 actuation count policy, but if you do what I did and check the <1000 shutter count every 50 shots up to 990, and then one at a time until 1000, you'll probably find that it changes at 1001 like mine did. 

If it changes before 1000, lets say 850, then you know it's been shot 150 times...your file count will show the 850 but the actuations will change to <2000. If this happens, you have strong evidence on your side to support your position.


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## Dwight (Nov 20, 2012)

Northstar said:


> Dwight said:
> 
> 
> > Northstar said:
> ...



Update:

Talked to this very courteous and helpful gentleman (who shall remain unnamed at the moment) from B&H. Told him about the bag. He noted the issue on my account. Asked him if he could ask a supervisor/manager if B&H had prior experiences with this issue. He said, "None". Asked about the Fed law, he confirmed that there is indeed a law. Told me that he made a note that B&H will waive the "less than 200 actuations" policy. Told me I could/should keep shooting with my camera and if I find any defects and decide to exchange it, B&H will honor the exchange within 30 days. Told him about how anal I am with packaging, the lingering voice in my head, and that no one should receive a brand new product with an open bag inside. Asked him if I could still do the exchange even if I don't see/experience any defects just for the fact that a bag inside a brand new DSLR was open (it shouldn't have been). He said, "yes". Asked about B&H covering overnight shipping (shipping method I had paid for) both ways (return and shipping of replacement). He said, "Yes, B&H will cover overnight shipping both ways". Asked gentleman to send me an email of everything so I would have a transcript of our conversation. He said he can't do that from his workstation because he was a "phone only" CSR. I asked him if he could ask a manager to send the email instead. Manager will email me tomorrow. Will wait and see if I do get an email tomorrow. No muss, no fuss conversation. I'm appeased in the meantime.


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## Dwight (Nov 20, 2012)

> As Mt Spokane wrote, it's against federal law to resell a used camera as new....



Mt. Spokane, if you don't mind, would you please link an article to the aforementioned law. I tried searching for it, but came up blank. Thanks in advance.


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## Dwight (Nov 20, 2012)

> I know they have a 200 actuation count policy, but if you do what I did and check the <1000 shutter count every 50 shots up to 990, and then one at a time until 1000, you'll probably find that it changes at 1001 like mine did.




Northstar, I understand your solution and like I've said, it was a good idea for your situation/issue. In my case, I just wanted to cover all my bases before I talked to B&H. I didn't want them to hit me with some technicality later on if I keep shooting and find out that before I reach 1000 actuations (per my count), the shutter count on my camera would say ≥1000. If that happens, eventually, B&H will not go by my word, but what the camera "says". I do not want them to tell me something like, "Well, you should've contacted us about the issue before you started ramping up your actuations.". I needed a confirmation from B&H that they would honor an exchange over 200 actuations. I did get that confirmation so I'm good for now. Thanks again for the suggestion.

On another note, wasn't able to swing by Canon Irvine today...will do so tomorrow. Outside of having them check and possibly be able to give me an exact actuation count, I need to go there anyways to have a different issue with another camera addressed.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 20, 2012)

Dwight said:


> > As Mt Spokane wrote, it's against federal law to resell a used camera as new....
> 
> 
> 
> Mt. Spokane, if you don't mind, would you please link an article to the aforementioned law. I tried searching for it, but came up blank. Thanks in advance.


http://www.ehow.com/list_6910926_consumer-laws-refurbished-goods.html
Sony wants to sell used items as new though.
http://www.lawpublish.com/new-products.html


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## Dwight (Nov 20, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Dwight said:
> 
> 
> > > As Mt Spokane wrote, it's against federal law to resell a used camera as new....
> ...





> *Deceptive Labelling*
> The Federal Trade Commission bans deceptive labeling in the sale of any product. This means that returned items cannot be sold as new, and retailers who sell rebuilt or otherwise remanufactured items must label them as such and not sell them as new items. If an item has merely been re-shelved without being used by another consumer, retailers should indicate that.



The quote above is where the gray area is for consumers. What if the product; in this case, the 1D X (not the packaging of the manuals that came with the product) does not look like it was obviously used (i.e. in pristine condition) and the retailer deems this item can be passed off as new and the consumer really does not have any proof (apart from the open bag) that the product was used? Who then has the burden of proof; the retailer or the consumer?


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## Northstar (Nov 20, 2012)

Dwight said:


> > I know they have a 200 actuation count policy, but if you do what I did and check the <1000 shutter count every 50 shots up to 990, and then one at a time until 1000, you'll probably find that it changes at 1001 like mine did.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You have a good plan....I notice I was being a bit redundant, my apologies.

You're smart to get an email from B&H to cover yourself. As I said before, canon should just factory wrap and seal these 1dx's considering their cost. Retailers digging around in the boxes is unacceptable. With your "cut open manual package" situation, I think the steps you're taking are prudent. 

On another note, with regard to our similar move from 5d3 to 1dx, what changes in settings seem important and/or "newly beneficial" to you? Are you using the INtelligent Subject Analysis? I ask because i seem to remember that it was not the default..I could be wrong though. This is one feature I will be comparing to the 5d3 when I have time.

Also...did your 1dx come with or without the firmware update?


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## Dwight (Nov 20, 2012)

Northstar said:


> Dwight said:
> 
> 
> > > I know they have a 200 actuation count policy, but if you do what I did and check the <1000 shutter count every 50 shots up to 990, and then one at a time until 1000, you'll probably find that it changes at 1001 like mine did.
> ...



Northstar, please, don't apologize.

In regards to factory wrapping (stretch-wrapping) and sealing these DSLR boxes, I unequivocally agree with you. I would go as far as suggesting for Canon to do it on all their DSLRs, lest they get inundated with complaints/defections from/by our Canon-shooting brethren.  If added cost was/is Canon's issue for not doing this, I would gladly give up all the manuals (I wouldn't have had an "issue" had they done this...see what I did there?  ), just to get a stretch-wrapped and sealed box. No reason for anyone (outside of the last person in Canon's packing line and the photographer/owner) in the supply chain to be tampering with these boxes!

Just to clarify, I'm not really "moving" from the 5DM3 to the 1D X...I'm keeping them both. I do have a 5DM2 that I'm selling. I presumed you'd be keeping your 5DM3 as well. *Settings that are important to me (All under "Orange tab - CFn"): 'Spot meter. linked to AF pt' (this, IMHO, is invaluable), 'Restrict shooting modes' (don't use 'P' and 'Bulb'), 'Restrict metering modes' (never use 'Partial metering'), 'Metering used in manual exp' (shoot Manual exposure a lot), 'Set shutter speed range', 'Set aperture range'. To a lesser extent, 'Restrict drive modes' (will never shoot 14fps...not a sports shooter)*.

INtelligent Subject Analysis? Were you referring to 'Auto AF pt sel.:EOS iTR AF' on "Magenta tab - AF"? If you were, that was one of the first things I turned on; even before I broke out the manual...was just toying around with the menu. Default setting was off. I don't really know if that would do anything for me personally, as I've mentioned, I don't shoot sports, but turned it on anyways. If there's anything counter-productive with that setting turned on in regards to my shooting-style, I would not hesitate to turn it off. Reading the "sportshooter" article (thanks to you) you linked to last night, Peter Read Miller and his friend Jerry Ward seem to think it isn't a bad idea to turn it on...so I'll leave it on for now. Still haven't read what the manual has to say about it though.

Firmware that came with mine was 1.0.6. I believe this was the first firmware released by Canon after the camera was available mainstream...immediate predecessor to 1.1.1 which I've already upgraded to.

As an aside, the truly tangible advantage of the 1D X over the 5DM3 is the build quality. The buttons and dials feel so much different (way better IMHO)...the "AF-ON" button is perfect/precise/exactly where it needs to be (sorry, just had to drive my point) location for my thumb! Less smudges on the main LCD due to the deeper eye-relief. The lock mechanism that engages the CF cards door is a desirable function. When you hold the 1D X in your hand, it just feels more solid all-around. I could go on and on, but I refuse to exaggerate. I still love the 5DM3 for what it is...a remarkable camera in that segment. For me, cameras are tools...no more, no less.

Sorry for the long-winded reply, everyone. Just trying my best to be of help to everyone in general and Northstar in particular. Hope this helps, Northstar...enjoy tinkering and shooting with your cameras!


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## Northstar (Nov 20, 2012)

> Northstar, please, don't apologize.
> 
> In regards to factory wrapping (stretch-wrapping) and sealing these DSLR boxes, I unequivocally agree with you. I would go as far as suggesting for Canon to do it on all their DSLRs, lest they get inundated with complaints/defections from/by our Canon-shooting brethren.  If added cost was/is Canon's issue for not doing this, I would gladly give up all the manuals (I wouldn't have had an "issue" had they done this...see what I did there?  ), just to get a stretch-wrapped and sealed box. No reason for anyone (outside of the last person in Canon's packing line and the photographer/owner) in the supply chain to be tampering with these boxes!
> 
> ...


[/quote]

Dwight...thanks for the info on your settings, I don't know that I would've tinkered around with the restrict settings, but now I think I'll have to check that out.

Yes, intelligent subject analysis (I read that somewhere) was what I was referring to. I seem to recall reading that spot meter linked to AF point doesn't work if you select the EOS ITR AF....maybe that is why it is not the default setting? I could be wrong though...but you might want to check that out.

I found this nice article on the canon Europe site regarding the 1DX. I like the explanations/descriptions of the settings/features that are provided. 

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/technical/eos_1d_x_explained.do

I'm keeping my 5d3 as well...I can't see myself lugging around a 1dx to kids events, family gatherings...etc. Also, for field sports it makes good sense to have two bodies to more quickly cover various focal lengths.

I'll be curious to hear the news on your 1dx when you make it to Canon Irvine


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## Dwight (Nov 22, 2012)

Northstar said:


> > Northstar, please, don't apologize.
> >
> > In regards to factory wrapping (stretch-wrapping) and sealing these DSLR boxes, I unequivocally agree with you. I would go as far as suggesting for Canon to do it on all their DSLRs, lest they get inundated with complaints/defections from/by our Canon-shooting brethren.  If added cost was/is Canon's issue for not doing this, I would gladly give up all the manuals (I wouldn't have had an "issue" had they done this...see what I did there?  ), just to get a stretch-wrapped and sealed box. No reason for anyone (outside of the last person in Canon's packing line and the photographer/owner) in the supply chain to be tampering with these boxes!
> >
> > ...



Dwight...thanks for the info on your settings, I don't know that I would've tinkered around with the restrict settings, but now I think I'll have to check that out.

Yes, intelligent subject analysis (I read that somewhere) was what I was referring to. I seem to recall reading that spot meter linked to AF point doesn't work if you select the EOS ITR AF....maybe that is why it is not the default setting? I could be wrong though...but you might want to check that out.

I found this nice article on the canon Europe site regarding the 1DX. I like the explanations/descriptions of the settings/features that are provided. 

http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/education/technical/eos_1d_x_explained.do

I'm keeping my 5d3 as well...I can't see myself lugging around a 1dx to kids events, family gatherings...etc. Also, for field sports it makes good sense to have two bodies to more quickly cover various focal lengths.

I'll be curious to hear the news on your 1dx when you make it to Canon Irvine
[/quote]

Northstar...in regards to 'Restrict shooting modes', 'Restrict metering modes', and 'Restrict drive modes', these settings just make for a faster on-cam workflow IMHO.

I'll look into 'Auto AF pt sel.:EOS iTR AF' further and see if it affects Spot metering linked to AF. If indeed this is the case, I'll turn the setting off. Spot metering on linked AF is far more important for me.

Thanks for the link.

In regards to my use, there's not much difference in size and weight between my 5DM3 with a semi-permanently attached (with Loctite on the tripod screw and an L-bracket) BG-E11 and my 1D X. Truth is, the 1D X feels better in my hand and the weight-factor is a non-issue to me. I never shoot without a battery grip anyways. Having said that, I will definitely take my 1D X with me on our next family gathering...if only to show off and show up to my buddy who just got a D800E. 

Still haven't had the chance to go to Canon Irvine...sorry. I did give them a call and the rep I talked to said the factory service center can give me the exact number of actuations. I'll keep everyone posted.


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## Dwight (Nov 22, 2012)

Dwight said:


> Northstar said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Update 2:
Got the email from B&H. Essentially states that I will be allowed to exchange my 1D X within 30 days even if it has over 200 actuations. Also states that B&H will cover shipping both ways via overnight delivery. Thank you to the phone rep I spoke to...Adrian x.4616 and to James F. for sorting out this "issue". Color me happy. Now I can finally shoot in peace!


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## Northstar (Nov 22, 2012)

> Update 2:
> Got the email from B&H. Essentially states that I will be allowed to exchange my 1D X within 30 days even if it has over 200 actuations. Also states that B&H will cover shipping both ways via overnight delivery. Thank you to the phone rep I spoke to...Adrian x.4616 and to James F. for sorting out this "issue". Color me happy. Now I can finally shoot in peace!


[/quote]

That's great news! Put that baby to work!


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## Dwight (Nov 22, 2012)

Northstar said:


> > Update 2:
> > Got the email from B&H. Essentially states that I will be allowed to exchange my 1D X within 30 days even if it has over 200 actuations. Also states that B&H will cover shipping both ways via overnight delivery. Thank you to the phone rep I spoke to...Adrian x.4616 and to James F. for sorting out this "issue". Color me happy. Now I can finally shoot in peace!



That's great news! Put that baby to work!
[/quote]

Thanks, Northstar! I have no doubts that you're enjoying and working yours! Although, obviously, you're way ahead of me now, despite getting our cameras almost at the same time!


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