# The Future Speedlites, Not Far Off Now? [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Dec 4, 2012)

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<strong>A new Speedlite or two


</strong>We’re told Canon could be announcing two new Speedlites in the first or early second quarter of 2013. Both of the suggested Speedlites could be to replace the current Speedlite 430 EX II. The guide number of the new flashes would be 45. One of them would be compatible with the ST-E3-RT radio transmitter and the other would be a standalone unit without radio capabilities. No mention of whether either would have the af assist light/video light like is found on the EX 320.</p>
<p>There would be no new features to the flash functionality that aren’t found on the Speedlite 600EX-RT. When questioned about the possibility of a Speedlite 600EX without the “RT”, I was told that it was possible, but not in the immediate plans.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
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## sheedoe (Dec 4, 2012)

I thought the 600EX without the RT is already available?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-Speedlite-600EX-Flash-Speed-Lite-Light-600-EX-NON-RT-VERSION-/350649902594?pt=Digital_Camera_Flashes&hash=item51a45ce602
http://www.ebay.com/itm/Canon-Speedlite-600EX-Shoe-Mount-Flash-/230785695681?pt=Digital_Camera_Flashes&hash=item35bbe63fc1


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## Marsu42 (Dec 4, 2012)

Canon Rumors said:


> We’re told Canon could be announcing two new Speedlites in the first or early second quarter of 2013.



Knowing Canon, that's probably end of June 2013... the transition to the rt tech is disappointing, still no remote 2nd curtain sync and obviously they wanted to sell as many expensive 600rt as possible before introducing "cheaper" (i.e. $400+ I guess) versions.

The one interesting information would be to know if there will be rt triggers for dumb (studio) flashes or at least for older speedlites...


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## Marsu42 (Dec 4, 2012)

privatebydesign said:


> Now, why don't they just bring in a flash control firmware upgrade for some of the pre 2012 bodies? Yes they want to sell gear, but Annie Leibowitz, amongst many high end pros, is still shooting the 1Ds MkIII because there is no better Canon body option yet, they could be selling so many more Speedlites if they would make the upgrade process more seamless.



Afaik the 600rt work on all pre-2012 bodies just fine (even at full hss speed over radio, this is confirmed for the 5d2, don't know about others) even if Canon says otherwise. The only things missing is rt control from the camera's gui (do it on the flash) and the group flash feature - the latter seems the purely-pro item Canon wants to sell with a camera body upgrade.

But as I wrote above, Canon's strategy appears to be strangely lagged for budget (430ex2 successor) flash sets or studio setups.


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## yitzy (Dec 4, 2012)

NON-RT 600EX:

http://www.canon-europe.com/For_Home/Product_Finder/Cameras/speedlite_flash/speedlite_600EX/

http://www.lightingrumours.com/canon-600ex-the-best-speedlite-money-cant-buy-2258


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## RLPhoto (Dec 4, 2012)

440 EX-RT!!!!! That would just destroy nikon flash!


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## Marsu42 (Dec 4, 2012)

privatebydesign said:


> I can confirm full power at 1/250 sync speed and complete HSS range up to 1/8000 on the 1Ds MkIII.



Looking at Canon's corporate policy during the last years, I dare to say that niceness is not on top of their priority list, it probably isn't even in the dictionary :-o ... but "professional support" surely is, so if seasoned photogs request ttl flash support or maybe even group flash it might, just might have a chance to be heard.

I guess Canon might introduce rt triggers for studio flashes sooner or later, but the question is when and I'm sure a trigger will be nearly as expensive as a full flash. Or maybe someone succeeds at reverse engineering the rt protocol and 3rd party alternatives will be offered...


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 4, 2012)

Sounds like a release analogous to the 600 - a 450EX-RT released in some markets, and a 450EX also release in certain markets due to restrictions around RF frequency usage. As was pointed out above (several times), the 600 flash exists in both an -RT and a non-radio version, although the latter is not available in all markets.


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## unfocused (Dec 4, 2012)

Ordinarily I am very forgiving of Canon. They have a business to run and their profits help create products that I want.

But, the abandonment of the 580EXII was very unprofessional in my opinion. This was a strobe marketed to and used by professionals (which I am not). To release the 600 EX and transmitter without releasing a backward compatible receiver was an unconscionable disservice to the many professionals who invested in multiple 580s. 

In addition, though, it was probably very bad business on their part as I am sure, even as I write this, Yongnuo and others are reverse engineering the strobe and transmitter and preparing a receiver for the 580EX (At least I hope they are doing that).


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## Daniel Flather (Dec 4, 2012)

The manuals that came with my 600RTs clearly states that a non-radio version model is in production.


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## ddashti (Dec 4, 2012)

I wonder what the 600EX without the RT would do to the price of the current 580EX IIs on the market.
The 600EX-RT and 580EX II are only $10-20 apart at the moment.


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## unfocused (Dec 4, 2012)

privatebydesign said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > ...the abandonment of the 580EXII was very unprofessional in my opinion...To release the 600 EX and transmitter without releasing a backward compatible receiver was an unconscionable disservice to the many professionals who invested in multiple 580s...
> ...



If you are going to flame someone, at least have the decency to read their post. I clearly stated that Canon has not produced a RECEIVER that is backwards compatible for the 580EXII.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 4, 2012)

I think the point is that the 580EX II can already receive from (and transmit to) a 600EX-RT, using optical triggering. I see your point regarding the ST-E3-RT, but not the 600EX-RT. With the new flash, Canon offered good backward compatibility, not abandonment.


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## Alex (Dec 5, 2012)

I wish instead of bringing out new flashguns they would bring out a receiver unit for the ST-E3-RT to make the 580's compatible...


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## unfocused (Dec 5, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> I think the point is that the 580EX II can already receive from (and transmit to) a 600EX-RT, using optical triggering. I see your point regarding the ST-E3-RT, but not the 600EX-RT. With the new flash, Canon offered good backward compatibility, not abandonment.



Yes, I have no problem with the 600EX-RT. My complaint is that Canon elected to produce a transmitter, but has yet to produce a receiver and does not appear inclined to do so. 

Given that we are talking about customers who invested in the flagship strobe at the time (and often invested in multiple units), it is unprofessional of Canon to treat their top customers in this way. Keep in mind too, that a receiver is hardly a difficult product to produce, as many third-party manufacturers have shown. 



Alex said:


> I wish instead of bringing out new flashguns they would bring out a receiver unit for the ST-E3-RT to make the 580's compatible...



Exactly.


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## SJTstudios (Dec 5, 2012)

Canon Rumors said:


> When questioned about the possibility of a Speedlite 600EX without the “RT”, I was told that it was possible, but not in the immediate plans.</p>


I do believe in some countries, the Rt feature is not approved, and is not included in the models sold there.


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## Bob Howland (Dec 5, 2012)

privatebydesign said:


> Alex said:
> 
> 
> > I wish instead of bringing out new flashguns they would bring out a receiver unit for the ST-E3-RT to make the 580's compatible...
> ...



You don't understand the dissatisfaction?? We just want Canon to introduce something comparable to the Phottix Odin. They've already introduced the transmitter half but seem intent on forcing us to buy new flashes instead of introducing the dedicated receiver. For your information, the ST-E2 signalling doesn't work very well in bright light and is very restricted in range. Now do you understand our dissatisfaction??


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 5, 2012)

privatebydesign said:


> No, I still don't understand your dissatisfaction, Canon won't make the receiver you covet, there is no reason for them too as if they did it would cannibalise sales of any new lower powered units, like the rumoured 450EX-RT.



I disagree - I understand the dissatisfaction just fine. People are also dissatisfied that the 5DIII is too expensive, that the 24-70/2.8L II doesn't have IS, and that leprechauns don't bring them pots of gold and supertele lenses. 

The reality is that Canon is a business, and their obligation is to deliver value to their shareholders. It's absolutely correct that if Canon released such an RF receiver, it would drastically cut into sales of the new flash units - clearly, that's not in their financial interests. They want people to invest in their new systems, it means more revenue for them. My personal hypothesis is that such a receiver is already designed and ready to go, and Canon will produce/release it at some future time, when sales of the 600EX-RT and new 450EX-RT have slowed significantly. But maybe not... Personally, I'd like such a receiver - that would enable me to trigger a monolight/speedlite combo setup w/o resorrting to PWs. But I understand why Canon hasn't made one for me. While they're at it, an MT-24EX-RT would be great, too.


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## starship (Dec 5, 2012)

*just buy yourself some Yongnuo YN-622C ettl-triggers*

just buy yourself some Yongnuo YN-622C ettl-triggers

the YN-622Cs are available for about 45$ a piece and convert all your "old" canon ex-II-flashes into "RT"-style light-poppers. and 2nd curtain is no problem (canons rt flahes can´t do that).

canon is not only pretty late in the radio-ttl-manual-remote-flash-business. they are trying to sell us cheap technology with an absurd "premium". well, i don´t buy that anymore.

try some Yongnuo YN-622C or Phottix Odin stuff instead. both systems are very reliable.


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## Bob Howland (Dec 5, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> The reality is that Canon is a business, and their obligation is to deliver value to their shareholders.



And any buyer-seller relationship is essentially adversarial and the person you're dealing with is your mortal enemy, to be exploited to the maximum extent they will accept.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 5, 2012)

I don't know about 'mortal enemies' - dead customers don't buy much.  But the rest of it is pretty much correct.


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## Ryan_W (Dec 6, 2012)

Well it's about time. I'm just getting into speedlites and am not interested in:

1.) Spending $1,200+ for a two light kit, or 
2.) Buying a bunch of optical-only flashes and being restricted to line of sight.

A 4XX RT flash, if miracles exist, will be priced at or below $399 and I'll be able to afford two for the price of one 600RT.


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## Lawliet (Dec 6, 2012)

*Re: just buy yourself some Yongnuo YN-622C ettl-triggers*



starship said:


> they are trying to sell us cheap technology with an absurd "premium". well, i don´t buy that anymore.
> 
> try some Yongnuo YN-622C or Phottix Odin stuff instead. both systems are very reliable.



Well, here the price difference between a 580EX2 last year and a 600EX-RT today is less then the price of an Odin rec. (The 430EX2 didn't change in price, just to rule out economical fluctuations). Also Canons solution offers Autoflash and five independent groups - w/o taking additional space or having more parts to take care of. The "ready"-confirmation on the transmitter is nice too.
Sure, 2nd curtain would be nice, as well as retaining the groupless slave mode or triggering studio strobes w/o having to rely on the sync port - but I tend to miss the RT-system when using the Nikons...


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## unfocused (Dec 6, 2012)

Ryan_W said:


> Well it's about time. I'm just getting into speedlites and am not interested in:
> 
> 1.) Spending $1,200+ for a two light kit, or
> 2.) Buying a bunch of optical-only flashes and being restricted to line of sight.
> ...



The 4XX RT flash, when it is released, will almost certainly not have a transmitter. Add in another $300 for that.


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## tmensonides (Dec 6, 2012)

Hey,

This might not be the right thread but I didn't see one that was way better. I'm still on the "optical" only system and was looking at moving to radio. My question (that I can't find an answer on by Googling) is can two photographer radio sync with the same flash units? I.e. with optical, during a wedding reception you could "four corner the room" and have all the flashes "usually" fire no matter which on of two or three people was shooting. With the radio system, can you do the same setup? Two-way sync to multiple masters?


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## unfocused (Dec 6, 2012)

tmensonides said:


> Hey,
> 
> This might not be the right thread but I didn't see one that was way better. I'm still on the "optical" only system and was looking at moving to radio. My question (that I can't find an answer on by Googling) is can two photographer radio sync with the same flash units? I.e. with optical, during a wedding reception you could "four corner the room" and have all the flashes "usually" fire no matter which on of two or three people was shooting. With the radio system, can you do the same setup? Two-way sync to multiple masters?



I would think that would work if both of you set your transmitter to the same channel.


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## tmensonides (Dec 6, 2012)

unfocused said:


> tmensonides said:
> 
> 
> > Hey,
> ...



I know it works with pocket wizards but the way Canon describes the link between the camera and flash with a camera specific pin code etc I wwas wondering if maybe it would either freeze the system or make it unreliable....

Anyone here have the gear to test?


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## tmensonides (Dec 6, 2012)

privatebydesign said:


> tmensonides said:
> 
> 
> > I know it works with pocket wizards but the way Canon describes the link between the camera and flash with a camera specific pin code etc I wwas wondering if maybe it would either freeze the system or make it unreliable....
> ...



Thanks!


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## SJTstudios (Dec 6, 2012)

privatebydesign said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > I disagree - I understand the dissatisfaction just fine. People are also dissatisfied that the 5DIII is too expensive, that the 24-70/2.8L II doesn't have IS, and that leprechauns don't bring them pots of gold and supertele lenses.
> ...



I'm going to side with him, because I want this.

But I side more so with you because I understand canons marketing. +1 to you


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## Alex (Dec 6, 2012)

privatebydesign said:


> Alex said:
> 
> 
> > I wish instead of bringing out new flashguns they would bring out a receiver unit for the ST-E3-RT to make the 580's compatible...
> ...



Yes that's all and great but canon are/have fazed out the ST-E2 with its replacement the grand ST-E3-RT which is meant to be an upgrade?? What im saying is instead of upgrading flashguns that already work fine why not make a ST-E3-RT with optical as well then it will be back compatible.. The new 600EX-RT flashguns are great im buying two with the ST-E3-RT, but it just makes my 580II's ( which aren't 6 months old ) a little redundant.. Vent over


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## Ryan_W (Dec 7, 2012)

unfocused said:


> Ryan_W said:
> 
> 
> > Well it's about time. I'm just getting into speedlites and am not interested in:
> ...



Right, but neither would the 600's - I can't avoid that cost, which is why I'm happy to save some money for a lesser flash. Valid point though - you have to include the transmitter with the kit and it's way, way too expensive.


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