# Patent: IBIS appears in EOS M and PowerShot cameras



## Canon Rumors Guy (Dec 31, 2019)

> Canon News has uncovered a patent that shows IBIS being developed for the EOS M system, as well as for PowerShots. This patent showcases IBIS and lens stabilization working in harmony on Canon’s smaller cameras.
> Canon News explains:
> What this patent actually is, is that with smaller cameras, the actual stabilization will cause vibration because the sensor and optical elements are moving, and that will then result in more shake, which then gets compensated, and basically you have a runaway system with the smaller and lighter cameras because of the sensor and optical element mass.  So what Canon is doing is finding a way to reduce the vibration caused by the IS units.
> The images in the patent seem to show what looks to be an EOS M style body, this may be just for illustration purposes as we have been told by folks at Canon themselves that a follow-up to the EOS M5 was not coming...



Continue reading...


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## Chaitanya (Dec 31, 2019)

Exciting times ahead.


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## Eagle Eye (Dec 31, 2019)

Canonrumors, you’ve mentioned a few times that “Canon” has told you twice that the M6 Mark II replaces the M5, but I’ve never seen an independent post with the details of those notifications. Who told you? When? What context? I have doubts that Canon would a) have conclusively made that decision, and b) communicated such a decision in this haphazard way. If some rep at Best Buy said that, I would give it zero credit. What seems clear to me is that Canon, instead of pretending like the M5 is still the flagship, has made clear that the M6II is the flagship at this point (it is the best M ever by a long shot and I’ve shot on everything except the M3 and M6). I expect an M5II or an equivalent fully integrated top end body (M1X?) by the end of 2020. The M6II has too many compromises that are unnecessary in the actual flagship M, given the unique mount, limited lens selection, and market orientation of the M system.


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## mustafa (Dec 31, 2019)

Eagle Eye said:


> Canonrumors, you’ve mentioned a few times that “Canon” has told you twice that the M6 Mark II replaces the M5, but I’ve never seen an independent post with the details of those notifications. Who told you? When? What context? I have doubts that Canon would a) have conclusively made that decision, and b) communicated such a decision in this haphazard way. If some rep at Best Buy said that, I would give it zero credit. What seems clear to me is that Canon, instead of pretending like the M5 is still the flagship, has made clear that the M6II is the flagship at this point (it is the best M ever by a long shot and I’ve shot on everything except the M3 and M6). I expect an M5II or an equivalent fully integrated top end body (M1X?) by the end of 2020. The M6II has too many compromises that are unnecessary in the actual flagship M, given the unique mount, limited lens selection, and market orientation of the M system.



Agreed. I'm still banking on a mkII replacement for my M5. M6II is no good to me as the wife would know I've bought a new camera.


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## Architect1776 (Dec 31, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...



I was somewhat hoping for an M5 MII. Just for a nice sized camera to carry. Now I have decided that it would be nice to see a very small RF mount APSC or FF (Think OM-1 was full frame and incredibly small and light.) with non-L, but great optically, small lenses with no IS but all in the body for size/price/complexity reduction. In other words an RF mount FF "Olympus OM-1 size" camera/lenses would be really incredible and would be a good seller I believe.


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## LensFungus (Dec 31, 2019)

Canon has gone crazy. Now they're putting IBIS in everything: DSLRs, mirrorless cameras, compact cameras, printers, camera straps, t-shirts, dogs.


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## IcyBergs (Dec 31, 2019)

Eagle Eye said:


> Canonrumors, you’ve mentioned a few times that “Canon” has told you twice that the M6 Mark II replaces the M5, but I’ve never seen an independent post with the details of those notifications. Who told you? When? What context? I have doubts that Canon would a) have conclusively made that decision, and b) communicated such a decision in this haphazard way. If some rep at Best Buy said that, I would give it zero credit. What seems clear to me is that Canon, instead of pretending like the M5 is still the flagship, has made clear that the M6II is the flagship at this point (it is the best M ever by a long shot and I’ve shot on everything except the M3 and M6). I expect an M5II or an equivalent fully integrated top end body (M1X?) by the end of 2020. The M6II has too many compromises that are unnecessary in the actual flagship M, given the unique mount, limited lens selection, and market orientation of the M system.


The next generation M50 (M60?) will be the camera the M5 fans are going to want. Will (hopefully) keep the built in EVF, keep the tilty-flippy screen, will have the new sensor, latest Digic chip, and maybe even the IBIS in this patent, but might not have all dials your old M5 did, and you won't be able to say you own the flagship M camera. I know that may initially be too much for some to compromise but I bet a after a few months and all the rave reviews the M5 loyalists will come around.


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## Architect1776 (Dec 31, 2019)

LensFungus said:


> Canon has gone crazy. Now they're putting IBIS in everything: DSLRs, mirrorless cameras, compact cameras, printers, camera straps, t-shirts, dogs.



It is called flexing their muscle.
Something they have not done definitively since the EF mount.


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## brad-man (Dec 31, 2019)

LensFungus said:


> Canon has gone crazy. Now they're putting IBIS in everything: DSLRs, mirrorless cameras, compact cameras, printers, camera straps, t-shirts, dogs.


Actually, Canon has IBIS only in software and on paper (prototypes notwithstanding).


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## padam (Dec 31, 2019)

Two downsides: with the same 32MP sensor + IBIS, it will be a bit more expensive than a 90D and those little batteries won't last long. And I don't think they will change those either, due to size and product segmentation. (Making it continuously powered from USB-C could solve the problem)


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## LDS (Dec 31, 2019)

IcyBergs said:


> but might not have all dials your old M5 did,



For some, this was exactly the reason to buy a M5 - especially since if you prefer a viewfinder you may like to change setting using controls with physical location and feedback.


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## Chris_Seattle (Dec 31, 2019)

I have an M50, because it’s the best M camera that still has an integrated viewfinder. I really wanted the M5Markii to come out, and Canon easily could have released it along side the M6Markii. They just won’t do it though. This is a deliberate choice. 

They are going to make that market segment jump to the Rp if they want a small mirrorless with all the integrated controls and features. Canon needs you to buy RF lenses.
I just wish they would release an RF version on an APS-C camera, and perhaps some “RF-S” lenses. Then Canon can finally get back on track to start merging the “schism” in the FF/APS-C mirrorless mounts.


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## Eagle Eye (Dec 31, 2019)

Chris_Seattle said:


> I have an M50, because it’s the best M camera that still has an integrated viewfinder. I really wanted the M5Markii to come out, and Canon easily could have released it along side the M6Markii. They just won’t do it though. This is a deliberate choice.
> 
> They are going to make that market segment jump to the Rp if they want a small mirrorless with all the integrated controls and features. Canon needs you to buy RF lenses.
> I just wish they would release an RF version on an APS-C camera, and perhaps some “RF-S” lenses. Then Canon can finally get back on track to start merging the “schism” in the FF/APS-C mirrorless mounts.


Pure speculation that I don’t think tracks with the market or Canon’s own statements. There’s no schism between M and R - they are simply distinct systems. Tight markets usually require more products to target various market segments and the M is specialized for that purpose. The RP is an inferior camera to the M6 Mark II in all respects except those associated directly with sensor size or lens mount.


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## IcyBergs (Dec 31, 2019)

LDS said:


> For some, this was exactly the reason to buy a M5 - especially since if you prefer a viewfinder you may like to change setting using controls with physical location and feedback.


True, and yet some of those same people you speak of may also prefer a screen that flips closed since they primarily use the EVF (yes I am aware that you can use the screen for dragging and selecting focus). I guess what I was trying to say is there is no perfect tool, a consumer with a budget always has to make compromises, and I think that if/when the next gen M50 is out (if it maintains the same or substantially similar form) it will win over a majority of the M5II hopefuls.


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## Don Haines (Dec 31, 2019)

LensFungus said:


> Canon has gone crazy. Now they're putting IBIS in everything: DSLRs, mirrorless cameras, compact cameras, printers, camera straps, t-shirts, dogs.



apparently, They have it working in a bird.....


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## Don Haines (Dec 31, 2019)

Eagle Eye said:


> Canonrumors, you’ve mentioned a few times that “Canon” has told you twice that the M6 Mark II replaces the M5, but I’ve never seen an independent post with the details of those notifications. Who told you? When? What context? I have doubts that Canon would a) have conclusively made that decision, and b) communicated such a decision in this haphazard way. If some rep at Best Buy said that, I would give it zero credit. What seems clear to me is that Canon, instead of pretending like the M5 is still the flagship, has made clear that the M6II is the flagship at this point (it is the best M ever by a long shot and I’ve shot on everything except the M3 and M6). I expect an M5II or an equivalent fully integrated top end body (M1X?) by the end of 2020. The M6II has too many compromises that are unnecessary in the actual flagship M, given the unique mount, limited lens selection, and market orientation of the M system.


Yes, but there is absolutely no reason that the would not be working on a new member of the M family that would put the M6II to shame...., just not called an M5.

look at the top end Oly and Panasonic micro 4/3 cameras. Surely Canon is going to compete?


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## geffy (Dec 31, 2019)

Don Haines said:


> apparently, They have it working in a bird.....


quite a few wives have vibration control too


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## Tangent (Dec 31, 2019)

I take 'no M5 replacement' to mean none _for now_. Eventually something along these lines will emerge.

I'm waiting with acute interest...


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## Chris_Seattle (Dec 31, 2019)

So why do you think Canon didn’t release an M5Markii or any new m-mount lenses recently?



Eagle Eye said:


> Pure speculation that I don’t think tracks with the market or Canon’s own statements. There’s no schism between M and R - they are simply distinct systems. Tight markets usually require more products to target various market segments and the M is specialized for that purpose. The RP is an inferior camera to the M6 Mark II in all respects except those associated directly with sensor size or lens mount.


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## Jethro (Dec 31, 2019)

LensFungus said:


> Canon has gone crazy. Now they're putting IBIS in everything: DSLRs, mirrorless cameras, compact cameras, printers, camera straps, t-shirts, *dogs*.


Might help my pathetic efforts at Dogs In Motion shots ...


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## Tangent (Dec 31, 2019)

The Nikon Z50 is interesting along these lines as well. Z50: no IBIS. Uses full size Z mount, but manages to be rather small -- surprisingly, the body size is pretty close to the M5. The APS-c lenses specifically for it are good, but a bit clunky in form factor. Still, folks seem to like it.

If the next gen top-tier M could have a full size R mount with a little ring adapter to mount existing ef-m lenses it would be a great combo of versatility and compactness. The Z50 shows it is possible to have a full size mirrorless mount and also have a respectably small body size. The ability to use compact ef-m glass via adapter, as well as R lenses (and thus also the extant EF to R adapter) would afford great versatility. Of course, the usual APS-C 1.6 mulitplier would apply. With the R to M adapter in place, the M to Ef (and Ef-s) adapter could be used. If that thin R to M ring is technically feasible it would be a kind of Rosetta stone for lenses!

With M lens mountability it is the best of both worlds: use the M family of lenses optimized for compact performance, and be able to use R lenses as well. A very reasonable compactness to versatility trade-off. The lower level M cameras such as the M6 mkII would still have a standard M mount for maximum overall compactness. Add IBIS per this thread and the 22 and 32 primes (and hopefully more tba) would become even more effective in low-light situations.

I gather this mount topic has been DTD already in other threads; anyway, I could go for such a camera! And IBIS would be a very nice bonus.

Addendum: If this is indeed what Canon is working on then it makes sense that it would not be called an M5 mkII. Sounds more like an M1 to me.


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## canonnews (Jan 1, 2020)

Chris_Seattle said:


> So why do you think Canon didn’t release an M5Markii or any new m-mount lenses recently?



the same reason why they haven't done any EF lens updates, even with the 1DX Mark III coming out - they are simply flatlined freaking up to their eyeballs in getting the R ecosystem done.

it's all the same resources. The EF-M is mature enough really for what it's supposed to do.


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## brad-man (Jan 1, 2020)

canonnews said:


> the same reason why they haven't done any EF lens updates, even with the 1DX Mark III coming out - they are simply flatlined freaking up to their eyeballs in getting the R ecosystem done.
> 
> it's all the same resources. *The EF-M is mature enough really for what it's supposed to do.*


Liked your post except for that last line. Are you referring to the lenses, the body or the entire system? One could make the same argument about the EF-S and the EF lines. Other than releasing faster/sharper lenses at a glacial rate, Canon seems to be all in...


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## 12Broncos (Jan 1, 2020)

Ok, it's 2020, where are the announcements? If only it worked that way. Happy New Year everyone!!


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## canonnews (Jan 1, 2020)

brad-man said:


> Liked your post except for that last line. Are you referring to the lenses, the body or the entire system? One could make the same argument about the EF-S and the EF lines. Other than releasing faster/sharper lenses at a glacial rate, Canon seems to be all in...


I meant the lenses really. I'm going by the assumption that since Canon pass the reigns over to the powershot group for the EOS-M development it was never going to be a serious system taking up / consuming significant Canon technical resources.


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## BrightTiger (Jan 1, 2020)

Eagle Eye said:


> Canonrumors, you’ve mentioned a few times that “Canon” has told you twice that the M6 Mark II replaces the M5, but I’ve never seen an independent post with the details of those notifications.


This has been addressed and covered by DPReview when they reviewed the 90D and M6II in Atlanta at the Canon release event. Canon told DPReview the M6II is the replacement to the M5 and M6. Done and done.
As I correctly surmised when the 90D specs began leaking, the M5II (circa 2019) simply had nowhere to go. Producing it would have cannibalized the 90D and RP simultaneously at a time Canon could not afford to let go of existing 70x and 7Dx crowd or the struggling RP line. They needed to force as many of the M5 and 7(0)xD users onto the RP preferentially or the 90D. Or as many in my case: give up in frustration and migrate to other platforms (way to go Canon)l. 
Does this mean the M5II is dead?A 2018-9 version, yes. The door is open for a 2020-2 release if Canon wants to continue to slim down the product offerings (badly needed) and commit to the M line as the non-FF mirrorless option.


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## heart+eyes (Jan 1, 2020)

Agreed: both R and RP cameras are not much better, aside from mount and sensor size. That's one probable reason Canon hasn't release a flagship M5 MarkII (yet). if the M5 MarkII had been released with the M6 MarkII, why would price-sensitive consumers and enthusiasts choose R/RP? Holiday pricing in the US reduced the RP to $999. Canon management has a serious problem attracting R/RP sales beyond early adopters. On the other hand, the M50 was the best-selling mirrorless in Japan...and probably other countries.
*
To all who have been patiently hoping for M5 MarkII*, expect to wait until after the next generation of R/RP cameras are released (mid-2020?). Canon clearly knows that an integrated viewfinder and adjustable LCD is a winning combination (M50, R, RP). Given Canon's profit crunch with the R/RP, they need a high margin, flagship product (M5 MarkII) but knew that would cannibalize sales from R/RP. Consider the M6 MarkII as just a "teaser" camera to remind the EF-M faithful that Canon hadn't forgotten us.



Eagle Eye said:


> The RP is an inferior camera to the M6 Mark II in all respects except those associated directly with sensor size or lens mount.


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## heart+eyes (Jan 1, 2020)

BrightTiger said:


> This has been addressed and covered by DPReview when they reviewed the 90D and M6II in Atlanta at the Canon release event. Canon told DPReview the M6II is the replacement to the M5 and M6. Done and done.



Correct me if I'm mistaken. I believe DPreview reported that M6II is the new "flagship" camera for the M line. Indeed the M6II does currently "replace" both M5 and M6--but that doesn't mean there isn't a M5II in the pipeline.

Do you have a reference (or link) from Canon that says there's "no M5II" in the future?


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## Sergio Smorovoz (Jan 1, 2020)

What will change the IBIS in your work?


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## YuengLinger (Jan 1, 2020)

I Believe In Santa!


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## Tremotino (Jan 1, 2020)

heart+eyes said:


> Correct me if I'm mistaken. I believe DPreview reported that M6II is the new "flagship" camera for the M line. Indeed the M6II does currently "replace" both M5 and M6--but that doesn't mean there isn't a M5II in the pipeline.
> 
> Do you have a reference (or link) from Canon that says there's "no M5II" in the future?


Oh... I thought it is the flagship for the R and M system? Am I wrong?


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## brad-man (Jan 1, 2020)

Tremotino said:


> Oh... I thought it is the flagship for the R and M system? Am I wrong?


The M6ll is an "M" camera. It has the EF-M mount. It is Canon's latest APS-C line of cameras.
The EOS R is Canon's latest Full Frame camera mount. The 2 mounts are distinct and are not interchangeable.


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## Sporgon (Jan 1, 2020)

Architect1776 said:


> I was somewhat hoping for an M5 MII. Just for a nice sized camera to carry. Now I have decided that it would be nice to see a very small RF mount APSC or FF (Think OM-1 was full frame and incredibly small and light.) with non-L, but great optically, small lenses with no IS but all in the body for size/price/complexity reduction. In other words an RF mount FF "Olympus OM-1 size" camera/lenses would be really incredible and would be a good seller I believe.


The RP is already almost exactly the same size and weight as the OM-1


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## Chris_Seattle (Jan 1, 2020)

Bingo.

When Canon:

1: Could easily technically release the M5Markii.

2: Knows that people would want to buy it.

3: Still chooses not to release it.

It means that they don’t want you to buy it. They don’t want to make something that will be “good enough” to dissuade folks from the RF line. Same reasoning applies to why they don’t have a 7DMarkiii.

It’s all about the lens ecosystem. Not the bodies.




heart+eyes said:


> *To all who have been patiently hoping for M5 MarkII*, expect to wait until after the next generation of R/RP cameras are released (mid-2020?). Canon clearly knows that an integrated viewfinder and adjustable LCD is a winning combination (M50, R, RP). Given Canon's profit crunch with the R/RP, they need a high margin, flagship product (M5 MarkII) but knew that would cannibalize sales from R/RP. Consider the M6 MarkII as just a "teaser" camera to remind the EF-M faithful that Canon hadn't forgotten us.


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## Ozarker (Jan 1, 2020)

Chris_Seattle said:


> It’s all about the lens ecosystem. Not the bodies.


Yup. Lenses are to bodies what ink is to printers.








Wary of mobile camera threat, Canon has its focus on high-end photography


With its all-new EOS R system, Canon is optimistic about maintaining leadership in the combined DSLR and mirrorless market.




www.financialexpress.com


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## Deleted member 378664 (Jan 1, 2020)

heart+eyes said:


> *To all who have been patiently hoping for M5 MarkII*, expect to wait until after the next generation of R/RP cameras are released (mid-2020?). Canon clearly knows that an integrated viewfinder and adjustable LCD is a winning combination (M50, R, RP). Given Canon's profit crunch with the R/RP, they need a high margin, flagship product (M5 MarkII) but knew that would cannibalize sales from R/RP. Consider the M6 MarkII as just a "teaser" camera to remind the EF-M faithful that Canon hadn't forgotten us.


I can easily live with your suggestion of a mid-2020 release. I could also live with a mid-2021 release as I normally tend to skip at least one generation. For me the newer generation needs more than only small increments that I can justify the newer model. The sensor tech from the M6II with regard to the predecessor could indicate enough increment for me. But I'm not at all in a hurry. So Canon won't get me into buying the M6II nor buying into the R/RP instead in a desperate move. I like the M5 exactly for what it is. Integrated EVF amount of dials and still reasonable small and light package together with the EF-M lenses. Don't like the idea of the M6 line with the removable EVF. And for FF I do have a 6DMII. No need for me to have two Full Frame bodies.

Frank


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## 20Dave (Jan 2, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Yup. Lenses are to bodies what ink is to printers.


Actually, it's the other way around for me. My lenses far outlast my bodies, and my lens mount (EF) pretty much limits which camera I will buy when my current one dies. I am an amateur, so I'm not changing my whole system for a few new features.


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## PRK (Jan 2, 2020)

If this happens, I'll have an M50 for sale


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## Ozarker (Jan 2, 2020)

20Dave said:


> Actually, it's the other way around for me. My lenses far outlast my bodies, and my lens mount (EF) pretty much limits which camera I will buy when my current one dies. I am an amateur, so I'm not changing my whole system for a few new features.


Canon will make far more money selling a collection of lenses to guys *like me* rather than just a body with the kit lens. Canon doesn't exactly give bodies away, but they almost give away printers. Sometimes Canon does give printers away. Ink is another story.

I had probably 8-10 regular EF/EF-s lenses before getting my first L lens which amounted to 6 at one point. So that's 14-16 lenses and a total of 4 bodies in EF or EF-s. (XSi = 4 years, T5i = 2 weeks, 70D= 3years, 5D Mark III = 5 years)

Now I have sold all my EF gear and have the R. I will probably end up with 6 RF lenses and maybe one more body. When I go out to shoot I typically shoot no more than 30 photos. I only shot about 4,700 photos in 2019. Of those, maybe 200 photos were worth keeping. 50 worth printing. Bodies and lenses last me a long time. I am, like you, an amateur. 

Wedding and sports photographers probably consume far more bodies than lenses. I have found that as I improve (mostly portraits of a toddler grandson), I take less shots. My hunch is that the vast majority of cameras gather dust, with the kit lens, in most purchaser's closets and have never been out of full auto mode. So my comment concerned a specific atypical group of buyers: guys that frequent this forum and buy a lot of glass vs bodies.


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## Architect1776 (Jan 2, 2020)

Sporgon said:


> The RP is already almost exactly the same size and weight as the OM-1



I noted body and lenses combined.
Put a 50mm f1.4 on the RP.
I would like to see a reduction in lens size to correspond to the body as Olympus did.


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## criscokkat (Jan 2, 2020)

I'm actually wondering if by fall we won't see an RP II as well. Keep the same roughly 1/3 less pixels than whatever the R II has, but improve the FPS to something in the 7-10 fps with full tracking, and maybe a burst mode like the M6II at a slightly smaller crop.

That would sell quite a bit to the price conscious enthusiast, and maybe a few bodies as backups to pros as well. That would get the train rolling on the RF mount to start selling all the non-L lenses coming this year. This body would pair well with the rumored 18-something + something-300 lens consumer lens kit. The kit could be priced msrp about 1700 total and would more than likely have some sort of 'sale' before xmas in all the big box stores to get it at 1499 or so for the kit.

That same sensor could then be used in an even cheaper/smaller z50 type camera if they want, without a viewfinder, with the option to add the viewfinder from the M6II to it. I don't think there's an option to make the M lenses work on RF without some expensive funky mechanics which would make the price too much.


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## Ozarker (Jan 2, 2020)

Architect1776 said:


> I noted body and lenses combined.
> Put a 50mm f1.4 on the RP.
> I would like to see a reduction in lens size to correspond to the body as Olympus did.


In fairness, the Olympus is M4/3: with a very small image circle and much smaller flange. Fast FF lenses are naturally going to be larger.


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## magarity (Jan 2, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Yup. Lenses are to bodies what ink is to printers.


Great excuse to take more pictures. "If I don't go out with the camera the lens will dry up and I'll have to buy a new one"


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## Architect1776 (Jan 2, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> In fairness, the Olympus is M4/3: with a very small image circle and much smaller flange. Fast FF lenses are naturally going to be larger.



Yes, but I am speaking a FF OM-1 being small, small lenses and use the RF mount on a new camera.
It just seems there is a contest to make huge lenses now? That small FF OM 50mm f1.4 was very sharp. Does AF need to add such huge bulk? I do see IS needing bulk. But AF should technically be able to be added with minimal extra bulk. Think 40mm STM looks pretty small yes f2.8 but surely there is a way to shrink a 50mm f1.4 to be far less than the current monsters.


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## Ozarker (Jan 2, 2020)

Architect1776 said:


> Yes, but I am speaking a FF OM-1 being small, small lenses and use the RF mount on a new camera.
> It just seems there is a contest to make huge lenses now? That small FF OM 50mm f1.4 was very sharp. Does AF need to add such huge bulk? I do see IS needing bulk. But AF should technically be able to be added with minimal extra bulk. Think 40mm STM looks pretty small yes f2.8 but surely there is a way to shrink a 50mm f1.4 to be far less than the current monsters.


OM-1 as in classic film Camera? I have several 50mm film era lenses that are f/1.4 and the lenses from the film era are much smaller. They also did not have AF (until Canon's EF mount) and they are not too great for resolution on a 30mp camera. Distortion and CA also sucks. The whole design must be different as far as what is required to build them, I think. Of course, you could always adapt those old lenses to your DSLR or mirrorless camera. That's what I do.


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## kaleff (Jan 2, 2020)

Don Haines said:


> Yes, but there is absolutely no reason that the would not be working on a new member of the M family that would put the M6II to shame...., just not called an M5.
> 
> look at the top end Oly and Panasonic micro 4/3 cameras. Surely Canon is going to compete?



I think you're right Don. And if we follow the logic I think the next flagship will be called M7.


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## kaleff (Jan 2, 2020)

How about we forget about M5 mark II and just call the new flagship Canon EOS M7. It follows the logic and makes total sense to me


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## Don Haines (Jan 2, 2020)

kaleff said:


> How about we forget about M5 mark II and just call the new flagship Canon EOS M7. It follows the logic and makes total sense to me


It would be a wonderful thing to see! I would hope that it would have the capabilities of the top level Oly or Panasonic crop cameras. Perhaps it could be the 7D2 replacement!


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## canonnews (Jan 2, 2020)

Chris_Seattle said:


> Bingo.
> 
> When Canon:
> 
> ...



we don't know 1 or 2 and thus don't know 3.

it entirely depends if they decided to make the gap between the M6 and M5 more than just the viewfinder and a few features like they did the original cameras. Elements such as IBIS would invalidate 1 and 2 quickly since Canon hasn't realized IBIS in any form.


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## kaleff (Jan 3, 2020)

Don Haines said:


> It would be a wonderful thing to see! I would hope that it would have the capabilities of the top level Oly or Panasonic crop cameras. Perhaps it could be the 7D2 replacement!


My thoughts exactly


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## Architect1776 (Jan 3, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> OM-1 as in classic film Camera? I have several 50mm film era lenses that are f/1.4 and the lenses from the film era are much smaller. They also did not have AF (until Canon's EF mount) and they are not too great for resolution on a 30mp camera. Distortion and CA also sucks. The whole design must be different as far as what is required to build them, I think. Of course, you could always adapt those old lenses to your DSLR or mirrorless camera. That's what I do.



Once Canon gets IBIS on the RF system I will get it and use all my old R, FL, FD and Nikkor F lenses on it. That is what I am waiting for. I am spoiled by it.


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## Ozarker (Jan 3, 2020)

Architect1776 said:


> Once Canon gets IBIS on the RF system I will get it and use all my old R, FL, FD and Nikkor F lenses on it. That is what I am waiting for. I am spoiled by it.


My problem is being quick enough to manual focus a moving target. That is a real skill. Of course, a toddler is probably tougher than birds. I have a 400mm Mamiya/Sekor: I have not had time to use it much on wildlife. Sounds like you have a lot of old lenses.


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## Architect1776 (Jan 3, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> My problem is being quick enough to manual focus a moving target. That is a real skill. Of course, a toddler is probably tougher than birds. I have a 400mm Mamiya/Sekor: I have not had time to use it much on wildlife. Sounds like you have a lot of old lenses.



I do not do a lot of action shots and when I do that is what the incredible Canon, second to none, AF lenses are for. The old lenses are for landscapes, buildings, and other less active shots like at an airshow the static displays or a car show etc. I do have a lot of old Canon lenses and the RF mount is a God send to reactivating them.


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## gouldopfl (Jan 4, 2020)

Architect1776 said:


> I was somewhat hoping for an M5 MII. Just for a nice sized camera to carry. Now I have decided that it would be nice to see a very small RF mount APSC or FF (Think OM-1 was full frame and incredibly small and light.) with non-L, but great optically, small lenses with no IS but all in the body for size/price/complexity reduction. In other words an RF mount FF "Olympus OM-1 size" camera/lenses would be really incredible and would be a good seller I believe.


While RF glass is fantastic it has all been pretty much professional glass. I have one lens I paid 2200.00 for and it's great. That being said, I have mostly Tamron SP G2 lenses which I use on both my 5ds and eos R with the adapter. If you read the reviews, they are fantastic lenses. I am waiting for the new EOS R and will probably use EF lenses until Tamron starts their RF lenses. I don't see Canons consumer RF lenses being any better than their consumer grade EF lenses but at a few hundred dollars more


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## brad-man (Jan 4, 2020)

gouldopfl said:


> While RF glass is fantastic it has all been pretty much professional glass. I have one lens I paid 2200.00 for and it's great. That being said, I have mostly Tamron SP G2 lenses which I use on both my 5ds and eos R with the adapter. If you read the reviews, they are fantastic lenses. I am waiting for the new EOS R and will probably use EF lenses until Tamron starts their RF lenses. * I don't see Canons consumer RF lenses being any better than their consumer grade EF lenses but at a few hundred dollars more*


Has Canon released a new RF lens?. The only comparable RF/EF "consumer" lenses I know of would be the RF 35mm f/1.8 IS and the EF 35mm f/2 IS. Please tell us where you bought your RF 35 so that we will know not to shop there...


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## mb66energy (Jan 4, 2020)

Architect1776 said:


> I do not do a lot of action shots and when I do that is what the incredible Canon, second to none, AF lenses are for. The old lenses are for landscapes, buildings, and other less active shots like at an airshow the static displays or a car show etc. I do have a lot of old Canon lenses and the RF mount is a God send to reactivating them.



Same here - bought the RP + adapter + RF 35 as an incredibly good offer and ... included a (Novoflex, I wanted to help the seller to earn at least some money  FD2RF adapter. One big reason to buy into the R System was to check out how the FD lenses work with a FF sensor.
17 4.0 moderate technical IQ but great colors, nice flares, very low distortion
50 1.4 S.S.C. very good technical IQ (contrast on lower side) IQ wide open, excellent from f/2.8, great colors 
135 2.5 S.C. good technical IQ
I own these lenses for 30 years and I will keep them, just as a memory of my first photographic experiences

While the new lenses are shurely better for stills in technical IQ I will keep these lenses for video and for 2k / 1080p they are more than good enough.
After reading that Sigma has introduced a cinema lens line with increased flares I thought that theses FD lenses might have similiar characteristics and I was not disappointed - maybe my FD lenses have still a lot more flares and they are really nice.

So yes:EOS R/RP are a God send. And the incredibly 1:2 macro 300 grams image stabilized compact high aperture unconspicuous looking RF 35 too!

The RP is - to me - the M50 on steroids


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## Architect1776 (Jan 4, 2020)

gouldopfl said:


> While RF glass is fantastic it has all been pretty much professional glass. I have one lens I paid 2200.00 for and it's great. That being said, I have mostly Tamron SP G2 lenses which I use on both my 5ds and eos R with the adapter. If you read the reviews, they are fantastic lenses. I am waiting for the new EOS R and will probably use EF lenses until Tamron starts their RF lenses. I don't see Canons consumer RF lenses being any better than their consumer grade EF lenses but at a few hundred dollars more



Only time will tell.
I seem to fail at predictions.


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## mb66energy (Jan 4, 2020)

gouldopfl said:


> While RF glass is fantastic it has all been pretty much professional glass. I have one lens I paid 2200.00 for and it's great. That being said, I have mostly Tamron SP G2 lenses which I use on both my 5ds and eos R with the adapter. If you read the reviews, they are fantastic lenses. I am waiting for the new EOS R and will probably use EF lenses until Tamron starts their RF lenses. I don't see Canons consumer RF lenses being any better than their consumer grade EF lenses but at a few hundred dollars more


RF 24-240: The only similar lens is the 28-300 mm which is three times the price and an L lens
RF 35 1.8 Macro: roughly the same price like the EF 35 2.0 but with MACRO and is (factoring in the adapter) substantially larger, Tamrons 1.8 35 is 100 EUR more expensive + has NO IS + is substantially larger and heavier.

So they have better lenses in the consumer range than others and EF series. The RF35 is unique if it comes to the COMBINATION of FEATURES:


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## Joaquim (Jan 5, 2020)

IcyBergs said:


> The next generation M50 (M60?) will be the camera the M5 fans are going to want. Will (hopefully) keep the built in EVF, keep the tilty-flippy screen, will have the new sensor, latest Digic chip, and maybe even the IBIS in this patent, but might not have all dials your old M5 did, and you won't be able to say you own the flagship M camera. I know that may initially be too much for some to compromise but I bet a after a few months and all the rave reviews the M5 loyalists will come around.


I highly doubt an M50 segment camera would get IBIS.


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## Joaquim (Jan 5, 2020)

LDS said:


> For some, this was exactly the reason to buy a M5 - especially since if you prefer a viewfinder you may like to change setting using controls with physical location and feedback.


Precisely why I had bought mine after falling in love with the 80D sensor.


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## IcyBergs (Jan 6, 2020)

Joaquim said:


> I highly doubt an M50 segment camera would get IBIS.


Not only was the M50 the first M camera to record in 4k, but it was the first APS-C camera Canon released to record in 4k. That's strong enough evidence for me to say that the successor "maybe even" has IBIS.


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## Ozarker (Jan 6, 2020)

IcyBergs said:


> Not only was the M50 the first M camera to record in 4k, but it was the first APS-C camera Canon released to record in 4k. That's strong enough evidence for me to say that the successor "maybe even" has IBIS.


Yes. Canon tends to have new tech trickle up, rather than down. Examples: DPAF, Articulated screens, mirrorless, 4k, etc.


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## koketso (Jan 7, 2020)

Eagle Eye said:


> Canonrumors, you’ve mentioned a few times that “Canon” has told you twice that the M6 Mark II replaces the M5, but I’ve never seen an independent post with the details of those notifications. Who told you? When? What context? I have doubts that Canon would a) have conclusively made that decision, and b) communicated such a decision in this haphazard way. If some rep at Best Buy said that, I would give it zero credit. What seems clear to me is that Canon, instead of pretending like the M5 is still the flagship, has made clear that the M6II is the flagship at this point (it is the best M ever by a long shot and I’ve shot on everything except the M3 and M6). I expect an M5II or an equivalent fully integrated top end body (M1X?) by the end of 2020. The M6II has too many compromises that are unnecessary in the actual flagship M, given the unique mount, limited lens selection, and market orientation of the M system.


THIS!
I also don't buy the "there will be no M5MkII story unless we hear it from Canon themselves instead of "chatter".

I would also agree that that an M5MkII will launch before the end of 2020 with a slightly bigger body and grip, better (and fixed) EVF, as well as a 52mm-ish prime for portraits and one of the rumoured standard zooms in f/4-5.6 flavour.


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