# Off-camera flash for 5D3



## killswitch (Nov 6, 2012)

I have a 5d3 and I am contemplating purchasing the Canon 430 EXII, and Pocket Wizard's Flex and Mini for off-camera setup. As far as I know you can access all functions of a flash (including ETTL) using the flex/mini combo as if the flash is mounted on the camera. Please correct me if I am wrong. Are there any cheaper but reliable alternatives? 

Also, in case of 2 off-camera flash units what setup will I need then to be able to control the flash functions directly from my camera ? Can I make do with 2 430exII's or will I need one 580 unit as the master? Assuming both flashes are off-camera. Hope I made sense.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 6, 2012)

That will work, yes. You can 'sort of' access all funtions. E-TTL II is supported, Canon's HSS is not my PW has Hypersync to accomplish the same thing.

A similar (but cheaper) option would be Phottix Odin triggers.

If using the PW/Phottix systems, you need a controller on the camera and a receiver for each remote flash. If using Canon's wireless control for remote 430EX II's, you need a 580EX, 600EXm or ST-E2 (but NOT an ST-E3) on camera as a master.


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## killswitch (Nov 7, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> That will work, yes. You can 'sort of' access all funtions. E-TTL II is supported, Canon's HSS is not my PW has Hypersync to accomplish the same thing.
> 
> A similar (but cheaper) option would be Phottix Odin triggers.
> 
> If using the PW/Phottix systems, you need a controller on the camera and a receiver for each remote flash. If using Canon's wireless control for remote 430EX II's, you need a 580EX, 600EXm or ST-E2 (but NOT an ST-E3) on camera as a master.



Thanks for clearing that out neuroanatomist. ^_^


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## davidbellissima (Nov 7, 2012)

In my opinion the PW Mini and Flex units are a waste of time. Lack of control options and they are severely hamstrung by very, very poor operational range, not to mention being susceptible to interference from the flashgun, further degrading range. Phottix Odin's all the way. Have a read of this. 

http://www.bellissimaphoto.co.uk/photographers/pocket-wizard-versus-phottix-odin-versus-radio-popper-flash-triggering.html


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## AdamJ (Nov 9, 2012)

Yongnuo YN-622C transceivers: $90 per pair, complete functionality, perfect operation. Why pay more?


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## mirekti (Nov 9, 2012)

AdamJ said:


> Yongnuo YN-622C transceivers: $90 per pair, complete functionality, perfect operation. Why pay more?



+1


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## killswitch (Nov 9, 2012)

AdamJ said:


> Yongnuo YN-622C transceivers: $90 per pair, complete functionality, perfect operation. Why pay more?



Yeah, I know. I stumbled upon them just last night. They are perfect for what I need and the price is perfect. I ended up ordering them after I confirmed they do exactly whatever PW's Flex/Min can. ^_^ They(Yongnuo)look very similar to the Pixel King transceivers, the only downside is the PK ones dont support 5D3 yet, the YN's do! Phew!


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## 7enderbender (Nov 9, 2012)

killswitch said:


> I have a 5d3 and I am contemplating purchasing the Canon 430 EXII, and Pocket Wizard's Flex and Mini for off-camera setup. As far as I know you can access all functions of a flash (including ETTL) using the flex/mini combo as if the flash is mounted on the camera. Please correct me if I am wrong. Are there any cheaper but reliable alternatives?
> 
> Also, in case of 2 off-camera flash units what setup will I need then to be able to control the flash functions directly from my camera ? Can I make do with 2 430exII's or will I need one 580 unit as the master? Assuming both flashes are off-camera. Hope I made sense.




I'm still debating this as well. I'm currently using cheap non-TTL triggers and the optical system that Canon provides for ETTL.

For line-of sight you'd need a 580 or the ST-E2 (or knock-off). You're idea about the PW should work. There are a few things to consider in my experience:

ETTL with PW can be the source of some unique problems, starting with interference all the way to reports of 580EXII flashes blowing out when used a lot with their version of HSS. Other people say that they are perfectly fine and there are no issues. Alternatively, there are the Odins already mentioned here. For people interested mostly in ETTL style shooting and/or a desire to access auto or manual functions wireless, these seem to be a better option. The transmitter and its manual look really nice. But since nothing is ever perfect you have to consider if you'll ever use your speedlites together with studio flash. You can't turn the preflash off on the Odin system - even when in manual. Without that issue I would have bought them already.

So what alternatives are left? One thing that I'm personally leaning towards right now is to just bag the whole ETTL option and go with a bunch of PW Plus III. Why? Because I find that ETTL seems nice at first and is very good for some things - but if you want a controlled environment it's better to go manual anyway. Would it be nice to have HSS? Yes (still available with line of sight of course and that actually works better than its reputation would let you believe, even in daylight and sunlight). Would it be nice to set the manual setting via the camera menu? Absolutely. So yes, the Flex and Mini will do that. Just make sure you read up on all the details for your specific needs and where you want to go in the future.

With the new 5DIII there is always the option to invest in the new Canon wireless system and call it a day. Seems really really nice albeit expensive still.


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## gilmorephoto (Nov 9, 2012)

+1 for the Phottix Odin.


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## Marsu42 (Nov 9, 2012)

7enderbender said:


> With the new 5DIII there is always the option to invest in the new Canon wireless system and call it a day. Seems really really nice albeit expensive still.



Same thing with 5d2 - despite Canon's announcements, even hss seems to work just fine, just the in-camera ui for radio control is missing and the "group flash" feature.


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## Krob78 (Nov 9, 2012)

Phottix Odins all the way!! They're great!


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## bornshooter (Nov 9, 2012)

i just sold my pocketwizards mini tt1's and flex tt5's and moved over to the 600ex-rt's less to cary and far better weather sealing rather that have to mount your flash to poorly built pocketwizards its just less to go wrong


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## AdamJ (Nov 10, 2012)

7enderbender said:


> I'm still debating this as well. I'm currently using cheap non-TTL triggers and the optical system that Canon provides for ETTL.
> 
> For line-of sight you'd need a 580 or the ST-E2 (or knock-off). You're idea about the PW should work. There are a few things to consider in my experience:
> 
> ...



7enderbender, I'd recommend you check out the Youngnuo 622s.

They operate at the 2.4GHz frequency, not the 433MHz that PW uses, so no interference from the flash.

They can trigger studio flashes also, and do not produce any pre-flash in manual mode.

They support HSS.

They're nearly half the price of the manual-only PW Plus III, with the added convenience of setting flashes remotely in manual mode.

The Odins have their own controls and display which makes it quicker to adjust settings compared with the 622s, which are controlled by the camera's flash control menu. So, the Odins are the better option if you need the quickest user interface. Otherwise, the 622s do everything the Odins do but for a fraction of the price.


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## jhanken (Nov 10, 2012)

Another bargain option if you are willing do forego ETTL is the Cactus V, $60 for a pair, each is both a transmitter and a receiver. Put two sets in your bag and you can drive three off-camera flashes and even have a fourth bounce flash on the body. I am having a lot of fun learning to use them.

http://www.gadgetinfinity.com/cactus-wireless-flash-transceiver-v5-duo.html


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## gilmorephoto (Nov 10, 2012)

Heck if you just want a cheap reliable trigger (only ETTL pass through for shoe), I have a Phottix Strato set that I don't use anymore since I got the Odin and was going to put on CL or EvilBay later this weekend, but PM me if you are interested. $40?


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## bobbysamat (Dec 6, 2012)

depending on how serious of a lighting setup you're looking for, i would looks at it two ways. one, you go with speedlights. two, you go with monolights.

if you want a dependable light to use on occasion that will get the job done, speedlights are a good choice. they're fairly easy to learn and you will wind up finding a ton of instances where a single undiffused light will give you some really nice results. they're super portable and you can find AA batteries anywhere. 

monolights are a good choice if you plan on using artificial light on a more regular basis. monolights also open up a new world of optional light diffusers. soft boxes, beauty dishes, snoots, reflectors, grids and so on. and while there are definitely ways to also use all these diffusers with speedlights, if you plan on using anything beyond an umbrella, i would suggest going with monolights. they're generally going to be much sturdier, making them able to hold heavier light modifiers.

i have two paul c buff 640w einsteins. they're very easy to use, are completely digital, and cost a little more than a canon 580ex. they also make very inexpensive lights that produce the same light that really expensive ones do. most people aren't going to need 640w's.


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## Jamesy (Dec 6, 2012)

Another vote for YN-622c's. I just picked up four of them and did some really quick tests and they work fantastic with my 5d3 and 2 x 580EXII's. They only work with the more modern Canon flashes and cameras so check compatibility before purchasing.

The nice thing is, you control everything right from the back of your camera. Another nice feature I discovered is you can manually override things like flash zoom so they don`t keep changing if that is what you want.


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## pwp (Dec 6, 2012)

killswitch said:


> AdamJ said:
> 
> 
> > Yongnuo YN-622C transceivers: $90 per pair, complete functionality, perfect operation. Why pay more?
> ...


That sounds GREAT! When you say they can do exactly what the PW Flex/Mini can do, does that include the brilliant Optimized High Speed Sync http://www.pocketwizard.com/inspirations/technology/fp_sync_hss/ 

Quoting from the PW website, "_HSS is a battery hog as it needs a lot of power to pulse the light. Through extensive experimentation, we found a way to reduce the total power used while giving you more power, and thus more light, when you need it. This means more light (which equals greater working distance), faster recycling times and more flashes per battery set when shooting in Canon's HSS/FP Flash mode."_

If it does this Yongnuo will win a LOT of new business. I'm first in line...

-PW


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## Jamesy (Dec 6, 2012)

pwp said:


> killswitch said:
> 
> 
> > AdamJ said:
> ...


I believe, The 622c`s implement standard Canon wireless HSS, I doubt PW can give more power while using less battery but I suppose it is possible. Most of these radio systems just interpret and re-transmit the Canon optical/IR signals, I didn't think PW was any different.

Here is a pretty extensive review/discussion on the 622c's:
http://www.flickr.com/groups/strobist/discuss/72157631348234978/

For the money I can overlook the limitations of the 622c's. The exciting thing is there are a number of great systems out there now and more to come.


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