# No innovation by Canon



## Ozarker (Feb 1, 2016)

The new 1DX Mark II specs are out and I see from many posts that there is no innovation by Canon in this new camera. *sigh* C'mon Canon! (Weeping, wailing, and the gnashing of teeth ensues).

Why can't Canon get it together and give us all what we individually want in a single camera? 

:Why?! :


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## Mark D5 TEAM II (Feb 1, 2016)

IBTL!!!111


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## H. Jones (Feb 1, 2016)

Dual-Pixel AF on a full frame sensor with 4K video at 60 FPS?? The EOS 1V did it better! :


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## Don Haines (Feb 1, 2016)

excuse me while I use my image stabilized fluorite element lens with an almost flat MTF line (not a curve any more) and take no flash pictures at ISO51,200 with the anti-flicker mode turned on......


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## Alejandro (Feb 1, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> excuse me while I use my image stabilized fluorite element lens with an almost flat MTF line (not a curve any more) and take no flash pictures at ISO51,200 with the anti-flicker mode turned on......



At 16 fps.


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## crashpc (Feb 1, 2016)

Lets see how it looks like at ISO 51200...


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## dak723 (Feb 1, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> The new 1DX Mark II specs are out and I see from many posts that there is no innovation by Canon in this new camera. *sigh* C'mon Canon! (Weeping, wailing, and the gnashing of teeth ensues).
> 
> Why can't Canon get it together and give us all what we individually want in a single camera?
> 
> :Why?! :



There's an old saying that applies here:

Better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to speak your mind and remove all doubt.


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## Don Haines (Feb 1, 2016)

camerabug said:


> I think it's more important for the trolls to be locked out of this forum when something new and exciting gets released


There is an old tradition on this forum that when a thread goes nuts, out come the squirrels..... allow me to start


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 1, 2016)

dak723 said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
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> 
> > The new 1DX Mark II specs are out and I see from many posts that there is no innovation by Canon in this new camera. *sigh* C'mon Canon! (Weeping, wailing, and the gnashing of teeth ensues).
> ...



There's a new saying that applies here:

It's the <sarcasm> tags you don't see that will lead to misinterpretation.


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## Don Haines (Feb 1, 2016)

Alejandro said:


> Don Haines said:
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> > excuse me while I use my image stabilized fluorite element lens with an almost flat MTF line (not a curve any more) and take no flash pictures at ISO51,200 with the anti-flicker mode turned on......
> ...


and none of that is "innovation", it is the slow and steady incremental improvements that from model to model do not make much of a difference, but over time add up to huge differences.... 

That said, there is still no green box mode on the 1DX2..... WHY CANON, WHY!!!! even the lowly rebels and p/s cameras have it!!!!


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## AlanF (Feb 1, 2016)

Let's face it. There has been no real innovation since the 19th C. After all, they had lenses, shutters and photon detectors over 150 years ago. Yawn.


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## mackguyver (Feb 1, 2016)

I agree, Canon hasn't innovated since the D30. In fact, I used my old one the other day alongside my 1D X and don't see what all the fuss is about with the newer bodies. I can use the center AF point with no problem. If I need to shoot over ISO 400, I use a flash or wait for Noon. You don't need fast burst speed if you can nail the _Decisive Moment_. You also don't need lots of megapixels for Facebook or phones. Weatherproofing is for people too dumb to come in from the rain. And don't even get me started on LiveView 

<no sarcasm tag needed></no sarcasm tag needed>


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## Pookie (Feb 1, 2016)

I think the days of huge innovative steps between camera bodies are long gone. You'll see nice adds but nothing ground breaking. With this new release I see no reason for me to make the leap to the 1DXII... the 1DX will be fine for another go around. With the 5D4 we may see the same. I already own 2 5D3's so unless it's a real game changer I'll be sticking with those too.

4k mean absolutely nothing to me or the rest of the "new" here. Doesn't mean it won't be great camera for others just means I'll be passing this time around. It also doesn't mean the 1DX or 5D3 will become obsolete immediately.


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## KeithBreazeal (Feb 1, 2016)

For craps sake, we don't even have sample photos or a user's feedback and it's getting bashed! 
It doesn't effect me since I shoot in Auto with cheap with Canon's.


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## Click (Feb 1, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> There is an old tradition on this forum that when a thread goes nuts, out come the squirrels..... allow me to start




;D ;D ;D


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Feb 1, 2016)

Every time a new product is released, the argument begins. 


The topic lacks innovation.


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## slclick (Feb 1, 2016)

purely mindless


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## JBSF (Feb 1, 2016)

For me, the fact that it comes only in black is a deal breaker.


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## Ozarker (Feb 2, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> dak723 said:
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   I knew you would get it. I thought it was very obvious. Especially with the "rolled eyes" emoticon.


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## Ozarker (Feb 2, 2016)

Pookie said:


> I think the days of huge innovative steps between camera bodies are long gone. You'll see nice adds but nothing ground breaking. With this new release I see no reason for me to make the leap to the 1DXII... the 1DX will be fine for another go around. With the 5D4 we may see the same. I already own 2 5D3's so unless it's a real game changer I'll be sticking with those too.
> 
> 4k mean absolutely nothing to me or the rest of the "new" here. Doesn't mean it won't be great camera for others just means I'll be passing this time around. It also doesn't mean the 1DX or 5D3 will become obsolete immediately.



I hope to buy at the end of the model cycle. That's my plan for now.


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## Ozarker (Feb 2, 2016)

slclick said:


> purely mindless



Exactly!


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## takesome1 (Feb 2, 2016)

All those patents that Canon filed last year must have been for copiers and printers.


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## Ozarker (Feb 2, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> Alejandro said:
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I have no idea what a green box is. I opened the sides of my cameras and saw the usb thingy and on the other side saw some cards (Not poker, well, I would if she let me). Still, I don't see no got dang green box.


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## takesome1 (Feb 2, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Don Haines said:
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No running man, mountain, flower or head mode either. They gave it the touch screen the rebels have but they didn't give us the flip screen. wth are we supposed to do?

Also, has anyone ever noticed there are few complaints about no on board flash with the 1D series? If this were a 5D release there would be complaints.


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## Don Haines (Feb 2, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> neuroanatomist said:
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We are a humor (or for us Canadians, humour) deprived bunch that takes things way to seriously...

and by the way, green box mode is the mode-of-last-resort and is usually hidden at the far end of the mode dial. It is for when you accidentally dropped your manual into the green box (recycling bin) and can not remember how to change settings on your camera.


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## PureClassA (Feb 2, 2016)

I put black nail polish over my Green Box mode button so other people won't think I'm a total loser.


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## H. Jones (Feb 2, 2016)

What concerns me the most about the 1DX Mark II is..

Will it be able to take a picture? Has anyone even actually confirmed that?


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## PureClassA (Feb 2, 2016)

H. Jones said:


> What concerns me the most about the 1DX Mark II is..
> 
> Will it be able to take a picture? Has anyone even actually confirmed that?



You just won Canon Rumors for the day.


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## takesome1 (Feb 2, 2016)

H. Jones said:


> What concerns me the most about the 1DX Mark II is..
> 
> Will it be able to take a picture? Has anyone even actually confirmed that?



Yes, but of course not as well as all other manufactures offerings.


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## dak723 (Feb 2, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> neuroanatomist said:
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Sorry CFB, missed the sarcasm. Sarcasm doesn't work well on the internet especially when most of the techno-geeks on this forum will echo your thoughts and be completely serious.


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## mackguyver (Feb 2, 2016)

I just realized it has a mirror - now I know they haven't innovated at all. That's it, I'm selling all my Canon gear for $5. I doubt there are any takers given the direction Canon is heading.


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## H. Jones (Feb 2, 2016)

mackguyver said:


> I just realized it has a mirror - now I know they haven't innovated at all. That's it, I'm selling all my Canon gear for $5. I doubt there are any takers given the direction Canon is heading.



A mirror? Really? Canon is trying to sell us technology from 6000 B.C.?


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## KeithBreazeal (Feb 2, 2016)

The first 10 seconds ;D
https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=I6JXCsVipcA


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## Hillsilly (Feb 2, 2016)

H. Jones said:


> Will it be able to take a picture? Has anyone even actually confirmed that?


A lot of people are raving about the voice quality when making phone calls. I don't know if anyone has tried out the camera app yet.


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 2, 2016)

The damn thing burns toast. I'm out...


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## Ozarker (Feb 2, 2016)

Don Haines said:


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I might as well not have a mode dial. I set it on manual and have not moved it yet.


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## Ozarker (Feb 2, 2016)

takesome1 said:


> H. Jones said:
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> > What concerns me the most about the 1DX Mark II is..
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You just need to know one thing: SONY.


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## Ozarker (Feb 2, 2016)

dak723 said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
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## Ozarker (Feb 2, 2016)

mackguyver said:


> I just realized it has a mirror - now I know they haven't innovated at all. That's it, I'm selling all my Canon gear for $5. I doubt there are any takers given the direction Canon is heading.



Once the pros see and try to use the new camera... Canon is finished. C'mon Canon!


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## Ozarker (Feb 2, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> The damn thing burns toast. I'm out...



Hahaha!


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## Ozarker (Feb 2, 2016)

KeithBreazeal said:


> The first 10 seconds ;D
> https://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=I6JXCsVipcA



Please. Anybody can add that clicky sound to the audio of their video. Ever hear of Adobe Audition? Adorama just wants to rip us off. No camera can do that.. well, Sony can... and without that mirror slappy thingamajiggy.

BTW: That's awesome! Thanks for posting! Insane!


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## Alejandro (Feb 2, 2016)

1 stop iso improvement over the 1DX. Holy sh-t. That's cool.


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## Efka76 (Feb 2, 2016)

Canon is really great company, however, it is poor in management of fanboys expectations. When I look at new 1DxII specs I do not see any significant technological innovations. Is this camera better than 1Dx? Answer - yes, of course but fanboys expectations are much higher. Let's take a look at details:

1) Added 4k video - this is substantial improvement and if compare with new Nikon D5 1 DXII is much better as it allows to record in 4k much longer time. Is it big innovation? No, because Canon 1Dc already had this feature. Basically, Canon made available 4k video to general public (not many people were able to buy 1Dc). But this was expected.
2) All points focusing at F8 - very good feature (especially for BIF). Is is big innovation? I think that no  That's natural improvement in technology. Evolution but not revolution.
3) Bigger spread of focus points - very good feature but also evolutionary. Also, fanboys expectation was that number of points could be higher as in competitors products. From practical point of view maybe it will be sufficient this number of points if they are properly spread and AF algorithm is working really well.
4) GPS inclusion - good, but it was really expected. However, expectation to have wifi transmitter is not met.
5) Increase in megapixels from 18 to 20 MP - almost nobody cares but also expected;
6) Native ISO - very very important feature and everybody had significant expectations (especially by looking at Nikon and Sony products). From paper specs of view Canon failed this expectation, however, we should look from practical point of view. Who is going to shoot with 409,000 ISO????? It is nice feature to try but not usable from practical point of view. If Canon produces clear and usable pictures at 51,000 ISO then I would say that this is really sufficient;
7) Dynamic range - this is important feature and Canon was not very strong in this area. Everybody expected better DR but nothing is said in announcement. I guess many of us will have had big expectations in this area but expectations were not met (but let's wait for actual tests and then we can moan ) ))
8) Higher FPS - on paper it sounds really good but in practice it will be used only by sports and wildlife photographers.


Canon 1DxII is flagmaship and accordingly all best Canon's technology is included here. I really do not expect revolution from Canon 5DIV - it is going to be better camera, with higher FPS, better AF, maybe GPS. It is going also to be evolutionary but not revolutionary camera. Overall if we compare this Camera with Nikon D5 we see that they are very similar and it is not worth to change system and move to Nikon  If we compare with Sony A7RII we will see that AF capabilities are much better in Canon, however, DR and MP are better in Sony. If Canon would buy Sony sensors and put them into Canon cameras we would definitely have the best cameras in the world. Now we will be waiting for Canon 1DxIII and will still expect some revolution from Canon ))


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## takesome1 (Feb 2, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


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I do not watch TV on my Canon.
I do not take pictures with my Sony.
In my world my priorities are right.


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## awinphoto (Feb 2, 2016)

you guys never fail to amaze me... =)


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## NancyP (Feb 2, 2016)

Not having read through all the responses - Canon isn't ever going to introduce any radical changes in operability in the flagship pro camera. "Evolution" makes sense for pros, who want reliability above all else. It makes sense to introduce really new technologies in lesser cameras with few features, eg, intro of PDAF in 70D. If Canon ever offers a camera based on its Foveon-like sensor patent, I would expect that it would be introduced in a consumer camera, simply due to the radical change in work-flow that such a camera (sensor) represents - not least, no initial support by Adobe.


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## Ozarker (Feb 3, 2016)

takesome1 said:


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*sigh*


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## Sabaki (Feb 3, 2016)

It is harder to go from 100mph to 200mph than from 0mph to 100mph. It is logical too that it is exponentially harder to go from 200mph to 300mph.

The advancements we expect from next gen bodies should be measurable but expecting those advancements to be massive may be setting ourselves up for disappointment.


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## takesome1 (Feb 3, 2016)

Sabaki said:


> It is harder to go from 100mph to 200mph than from 0mph to 100mph. It is logical too that it is exponentially harder to go from 200mph to 300mph.
> 
> The advancements we expect from next gen bodies should be measurable but expecting those advancements to be massive may be setting ourselves up for disappointment.



Not so in the vacuum of space with no resistance or gravity. Perhaps Canon should move their research team to the International Space Station. Then we will see more innovation.


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## H. Jones (Feb 3, 2016)

takesome1 said:


> Sabaki said:
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Maybe the ISS isn't thinking big enough.. How fast would innovation occur if it was being thrown through space under the incredible pull of a super-massive black hole? Get on it, Canon.


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## StudentOfLight (Feb 3, 2016)

H. Jones said:


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But in space no-one can hear you scream for full frame mirrorless


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## Sabaki (Feb 3, 2016)

StudentOfLight said:


> H. Jones said:
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## Don Haines (Feb 3, 2016)

H. Jones said:


> takesome1 said:
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As you approach the speed of light, time slows down relative to the stationary observer, so while days would pass for the travelers, years would pass back here on earth.... and we would have far more time to discuss rumours with no tangible proof to either deny or confirm them. It is bad enough that Nikon's service centers have gone this route.... Canon, stay put!


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## NNature (Feb 3, 2016)

crashpc said:


> Lets see how it looks like at ISO 51200...


Only ISO 25600...
http://cweb.canon.jp/camera/eos/lineup/1dxmk2/samples/downloads/003.jpg


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## KeithBreazeal (Feb 3, 2016)

One thing to consider is reliability. As in cars, I wouldn't buy a new model camera that was 100% redesigned. Building on a known, reliable product makes sense. There is a lot of the 1DX components that are new and the cost is still holding. I'm thinking the 5D Mark IV will have the 1DX Mark II AF improvements and a higher frame rate. Canon is still holding out on back-lit sensors even though they use them in other products.


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## RGF (Feb 3, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> The new 1DX Mark II specs are out and I see from many posts that there is no innovation by Canon in this new camera. *sigh* C'mon Canon! (Weeping, wailing, and the gnashing of teeth ensues).
> 
> Why can't Canon get it together and give us all what we individually want in a single camera?
> 
> :Why?! :




The 1Dx M2 with 5DS resolution, 14 FPS, and the size of the 6D with the price of a rebel.

Did I get your wish list correct? Or did I miss something?


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## zim (Feb 3, 2016)

RGF said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
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> > The new 1DX Mark II specs are out and I see from many posts that there is no innovation by Canon in this new camera. *sigh* C'mon Canon! (Weeping, wailing, and the gnashing of teeth ensues).
> ...




I don't like the strap......... last century design zero innovation.....................


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## KeithBreazeal (Feb 3, 2016)

For some, it would be like a "trophy wife".
Throw in a nice Lexan display case.


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## Ozarker (Feb 3, 2016)

RGF said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
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> > The new 1DX Mark II specs are out and I see from many posts that there is no innovation by Canon in this new camera. *sigh* C'mon Canon! (Weeping, wailing, and the gnashing of teeth ensues).
> ...



Yeah, you missed the sarcasm buddy. Best to read a few posts down on page 1.  I'm a total Canon Fan Boy. "How you relate to the issue is the issue."


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## Don Haines (Feb 3, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


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OMG! CanonFanBoy is a Canon Fan Boy! Who would have ever guessed!


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## Click (Feb 3, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> OMG! CanonFanBoy is a Canon Fan Boy! Who would have ever guessed!



;D ;D ;D


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## Larsskv (Feb 3, 2016)

Efka76 said:


> If we compare with Sony A7RII we will see that AF capabilities are much better in Canon, however, DR and MP are better in Sony. If Canon would buy Sony sensors and put them into Canon cameras we would definitely have the best cameras in the world. Now we will be waiting for Canon 1DxIII and will still expect some revolution from Canon ))



It seems you haven't really paid attention to Sony's flaws. Canon made an on sensor readout, that doesn't overheat in 4K filming, unlike the Sony offerings. Canon may be slow, but they do things right. Thats a major reason to invest in Canon, over Sony. I for one, am happy with evolution over revolution.

And with regards to the DR, it remains to be seen which is better.


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## slclick (Feb 3, 2016)

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=17634


I never said Nikon stinks but......


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## Don Haines (Feb 3, 2016)

Click said:


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Yeah..... next it will be revealed that Neuro has something to do with brains, where Mt. Spokane lives, and that 
ValveBounce is into motorsports.......


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## KeithBreazeal (Feb 3, 2016)

Don Haines said:


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and if there is any doubt, I'm into aviation...



Peek-A-Boo Preflight © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal, on Flickr


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## Click (Feb 3, 2016)

KeithBreazeal said:


> and if there is any doubt, I'm into aviation...


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## Ozarker (Feb 3, 2016)

Click said:


> Don Haines said:
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 Well, when somebody gets the idea I'm bashing Canon...


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## DCP (Feb 3, 2016)

mackguyver said:


> I just realized it has a mirror - now I know they haven't innovated at all. That's it, I'm selling all my Canon gear for $5. I doubt there are any takers given the direction Canon is heading.



Has anyone tried film in it yet? I hear this completes the multi media recording on the camera......Or maybe micro sd cards x6 slots.
Surely not worth it if it wont record 320p video. How about 399 AF points for the vision impaired????


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## Don Haines (Feb 3, 2016)

mackguyver said:


> And don't even get me started on LiveView



I like LiveView. I had an Olympus where the LCD display screen went black. Deadview sucks! I was so disgusted that I threw the camera away....


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 4, 2016)

slclick said:


> http://www.the-digital-picture.com/News/News-Post.aspx?News=17634
> I never said Nikon stinks but......



Wow, now _that's_ innovation to put Canon to shame!


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## TeT (Feb 4, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> slclick said:
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Does it have a Sony sensor?


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## takesome1 (Feb 4, 2016)

TeT said:


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No, but the pheromones it releases are much better than Canon's, especially when sitting in the shadow areas at a bar or night club.


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## hazydave (Feb 4, 2016)

No, Canon doesn't "innovate". No one really does. 

What they do is deliver a new piece of technology. They push some boundaries. Some of those things are pretty predictable. So sure, there's nothing I know so far about the new EOS 1D X Mark II that I find surprising. Sure, it's got new capabilities, but with every other camera manufacturer pushing 4K video (at least UltraHD if not DCI-4K) down to below $1,000, it was only a matter of time before Canon had to, as well. Despite the fact they'd rather we did 4K on CinemaEOS cameras. 

Is there any frightening, amazing feature? Nope. And this IS the flagship, after all. So pretty much, no, that would never happen on a flagship model. If they had debuted DualPixel on the flagship, yeah, that would dubbed innovation, just as it was on the 70D. Of course, there were also complaints about the lack of still photo improvements on the 70D. That's one reason why the scary stuff isn't likely to be tried on a flagship model. 

But the other thing about innovation: it's a judgement over time. You can have a cool new feature, but if it's worthless in practice, no one's saying "Innovation". There are plenty of good ideas that wound up on the "worst of the year" lists, because they didn't deliver an idea, they delivered one specific implementation of an idea. 

So when you read a new spec product preview sheet, you're of course looking for cool new stuff which may prove to be a real innovation. Or not. And you might actually miss the deeper tweaks which, sometimes, prove to be every-day valueable. Innovative, even.


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## Sporgon (Feb 4, 2016)

takesome1 said:


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If you can't beat them develop a watch that produces a fragrance. Sounds perfectly reasonable to me


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## RGF (Feb 4, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


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I am joining you sarcasm. Nothing is good enough for some people, perhaps if the 1Dx M2 was free they would be happy until Canon went out of business ...


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 4, 2016)

RGF said:


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Only if it was free _and_ had a Sony sensor. A

...and had an M.Fn3 button to release fragrance.


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## jeffa4444 (Feb 4, 2016)

hazydave said:


> No, Canon doesn't "innovate". No one really does.
> 
> What they do is deliver a new piece of technology. They push some boundaries. Some of those things are pretty predictable. So sure, there's nothing I know so far about the new EOS 1D X Mark II that I find surprising. Sure, it's got new capabilities, but with every other camera manufacturer pushing 4K video (at least UltraHD if not DCI-4K) down to below $1,000, it was only a matter of time before Canon had to, as well. Despite the fact they'd rather we did 4K on CinemaEOS cameras.
> 
> ...


Not all 4K is equal hence why Hollywood DONT use DSLRs or for that matter Netflix or Amazon Prime. Give me Arri Alexa 3.8K over many so called 4K cameras any day.


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## Maiaibing (Feb 5, 2016)

Pookie said:


> I think the days of huge innovative steps between camera bodies are long gone. You'll see nice adds but nothing ground breaking. With this new release I see no reason for me to make the leap to the 1DXII... the 1DX will be fine for another go around. With the 5D4 we may see the same. .



Spot on. I expect to get a 5DIV to replace my 6D. But its not a given.

My best guess is that the extra MPIX and much cleaner high iso I got with the 5DSR over my 5DII's will prove a bigger performance jump than what the 5DIV eventually will bring me over my 6D.

Would be nice to be wrong of course.

Meanwhile, I'm so very happy I got myself a 5DSR in stead of waiting for the 5DIV.


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## Ozarker (Feb 6, 2016)

Maiaibing said:


> Pookie said:
> 
> 
> > I think the days of huge innovative steps between camera bodies are long gone. You'll see nice adds but nothing ground breaking. With this new release I see no reason for me to make the leap to the 1DXII... the 1DX will be fine for another go around. With the 5D4 we may see the same. .
> ...



Smart thinking. My gear works fine and I'm far from mastering it. I think skipping a generation on bodies is smart. Especially for a hobbyist like me. 

Lenses? I'm not sure how often they get updated, but I can't see myself replacing any that I have (except the 400mm). I'm much more likely to add one than replace one though. 

I've found that Pookie gives excellent gear advice and I've been fortunate enough to follow it. If I can get within 75% of his knowledge and skill I'll be a happy man. 

The 1DX mark II is on my list, but it will take me quite a while to save for it. I'll shoot for the end of the product cycle. I think I'd add a 400mm f/2.8L IS II or the 600MM before adding a camera and maybe even an updated 85mm L. It seems that good glass is where it is really at and Canon does a spectacular job in that dept.


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## Ozarker (Feb 6, 2016)

Sporgon said:


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Nikon is way behind the curve. I've had underwear that produces a fragrance for years and years. It keeps me safe in sketchy urban settings and repels bears when I'm shooting nature photos. In fact, there's a nature sensor. Soon as I step into the woods... the fragrance automatically kicks in. C'mon Nikon!


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## Sporgon (Feb 6, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> I've had underwear that produces a fragrance for years and years.



So have I but it's not something I'd brag about


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