# Canon confirms addition of Canon Log 3, Cinema RAW Light, lower bit rates and more for the EOS-1D X Mark III and EOS R5



## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 27, 2020)

> While Canon has just released new firmware for both the Canon EOS R5 and Canon EOS-1D X Mark III, it appears they’re already hard at work on the next updates for each camera.
> Canon has gone ahead and confirmed our previous reports about features updates for the Canon EOS R5, and additionally the Canon EOS-1D X Mark III.
> *From Canon:*
> In addition to the EOS R5 firmware version 1.1.0, Canon is already working on further future updates in response to feedback on the EOS-1D X Mark III and...



Continue reading...


----------



## landon (Aug 27, 2020)

LOL Canon!!! You're giving Canon-Sony-Canon-Sony switchers heart attacks


----------



## addola (Aug 27, 2020)

I fear that the R5 will be getting all the good updates/upgrades while the R6 will get close to nothing.


----------



## BeenThere (Aug 27, 2020)

Just getting better and better.


----------



## landon (Aug 27, 2020)

addola said:


> I fear that the R5 will be getting all the good updates/upgrades while the R6 will get close to nothing.


I'm sure R6 will get good updates also. Rumored firmware soon.


----------



## marathonman (Aug 27, 2020)

Why no mention of 480p at 2,372 fps? It's clear they are just trying to protect the Phantom T1340. If they don't add this capability I'm going to take them to the UK small claims court.


----------



## blackcoffee17 (Aug 27, 2020)

Wish the M's would receive some occasional firmware improvements.


----------



## wanderer23 (Aug 27, 2020)

Maybe anohter 5 minutes of time uppage too


----------



## ClickIt_AC (Aug 27, 2020)

I don't suppose there are any rumours to update the EOS R firmware with animal AF?


----------



## VegasCameraGuy (Aug 27, 2020)

The R6 might get lost in the dust as the R5 is only a couple of thousand more. Dog food is not that bad!


----------



## RayValdez360 (Aug 27, 2020)

VegasCameraGuy said:


> The R6 might get lost in the dust as the R5 is only a couple of thousand more. Dog food is not that bad!


ONE THOUSANDS....


----------



## toodamnice (Aug 27, 2020)

I haven't even received my R5 yet and it's already a better camera than when I ordered it! This update will make it even better! Good job Canon!


----------



## Chaitanya (Aug 27, 2020)

Good to see things improving for R5 and hopefully R6 will get similar updates soon


----------



## Kit. (Aug 27, 2020)

ClickIt_AC said:


> I don't suppose there are any rumours to update the EOS R firmware with animal AF?


It's quite possible that EOS R does not have enough hardware to do it in realtime.


----------



## HikeBike (Aug 27, 2020)

addola said:


> I fear that the R5 will be getting all the good updates/upgrades while the R6 will get close to nothing.


While I'm sure the R5 will be the priority, I think we can expect good firmware updates for the R6, where warranted. Canon did right by R owners, so I expect they will do the same by R6 owners.


----------



## Besisika (Aug 27, 2020)

wanderer23 said:


> Maybe anohter 5 minutes of time uppage too


The lower bitrate will help with that. I am really happy with this news, especially the cinema raw. The 8K will find its use in my eyes.


----------



## mccasi (Aug 27, 2020)

Clog 3 and FHD 120p, that fits many wishlists well.
I guess my personal wishlist will be unfulfilled, I bought my R5 in China, and cannot change image.canon to US/UK server and can only get my photos into Baidu not even the app. No option to choose and no way i can get a Baidu account even.


----------



## neurorx (Aug 27, 2020)

landon said:


> I'm sure R6 will get good updates also. Rumored firmware soon.


Canon has to justify the price differences between R5 and R6 and 1DX3 and this might be a means to do that.


----------



## Stig Nygaard (Aug 27, 2020)

Where/how has this been confirmed?


----------



## vangelismm (Aug 27, 2020)

Lower bit rate option for 8K RAW video recording 

What's the benefit? Less heat?


----------



## landon (Aug 27, 2020)

neurorx said:


> Canon has to justify the price differences between R5 and R6 and 1DX3 and this might be a means to do that.


The R6 will be competing with hybrid A7iv. So I'll say it'll get Clog 3, lower bit rates on all video modes. Hoping 4K120p(gimp/crop)


----------



## Mike9129 (Aug 27, 2020)

This is good

if they can do some more fiddling with the cooldown times for the 8k/4k 120p then itll be a great camera.
I dont need long clips, but I do need the camera to be consistent between shots. They seem to be working on it which is great news

Also, what should we expect with Clog3? +1 stop dynamic range? more? less?


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 27, 2020)

addola said:


> I fear that the R5 will be getting all the good updates/upgrades while the R6 will get close to nothing.




Not to insult the R6, but I wouldn’t expect it to get as many features as the R5...


----------



## sanj (Aug 27, 2020)

Does lower bit rate not equate to a reduction in IQ?


----------



## edoorn (Aug 27, 2020)

vangelismm said:


> Lower bit rate option for 8K RAW video recording
> 
> What's the benefit? Less heat?



don't know, but smaller file size / easier to edit for sure?


----------



## landon (Aug 27, 2020)

Stig Nygaard said:


> Where/how has this been confirmed?


R6 you mean? Another poster says Gordon Lang respond to No Life youtuber's video, where he hints at R6 firmware coming.
I suspect the first R6 firmware will be bug fix just like this first R5 firmware. The subsequent firmware will add features.


----------



## Aregal (Aug 27, 2020)

vangelismm said:


> Lower bit rate option for 8K RAW video recording
> 
> What's the benefit? Less heat?


I think the real gain would be being able to store more footage on a card. The extra processing would lead me to expect more heat and shorter run times...but that's just my $0.02.


----------



## vangelismm (Aug 27, 2020)

Aregal said:


> I think the real gain would be being able to store more footage on a card. The extra processing would lead me to expect more heat and shorter run times...but that's just my $0.02.



Would be a trade off, i think would be less heat on the card, especially the CFe.


----------



## -pekr- (Aug 27, 2020)

Could lower bitrates prolong the shooting periods? Otoh it will also mean a lower quality stream, no? So that shooting in HQ mode might not make much sense then?


----------



## futzy (Aug 27, 2020)

RayValdez360 said:


> ONE THOUSANDS....


ONE THOUSANDS FOUR HUNDRED


----------



## futzy (Aug 27, 2020)

vangelismm said:


> Lower bit rate option for 8K RAW video recording
> 
> What's the benefit? Less heat?


Yes and less space needed!


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 27, 2020)

ClickIt_AC said:


> I don't suppose there are any rumours to update the EOS R firmware with animal AF?



I believe a lot of the AF calculations are done in Digic X, so what we have with the R is about as good as it is going to get.


----------



## Baron_Karza (Aug 27, 2020)

Mike9129 said:


> This is good
> 
> if they can do some more fiddling with the cooldown times for the 8k/4k 120p then itll be a great camera.
> I dont need long clips, but I do need the camera to be consistent between shots. They seem to be working on it which is great news
> ...



Firmware update for the cool down:

BEFORE:

iWait_CoolDown = 10;

NOW:

iWait_CoolDown = 5;

That's all it was!

Haha!


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 27, 2020)

sanj said:


> Does lower bit rate not equate to a reduction in IQ?



Yes, but is it not if that is perceptable? I've never tried cRAW, but others claim that it is difficult to see where the compression has impacted the quality. I'm sure there are probably threads here where people have seen it.

Ultimately, it will be interesting to see if CRL offers better quality than 4KHQ and for less or comparable cost in terms of heat etc.

I'm also guessing that Digic X has the capability to assist in HW - whether that is similar to what it needs for cRAW or whether they are comparable, not a scoobie.


----------



## Jordan23 (Aug 27, 2020)

Mike9129 said:


> Also, what should we expect with Clog3? +1 stop dynamic range? more? less?


Clog has 12 stops, and Clog3 has 14 stops so theoretically 2 stops.


----------



## BradL (Aug 27, 2020)

landon said:


> I'm sure R6 will get good updates also. Rumored firmware soon.


The updates sound good, now if I could only get my R5 so I can update it. I feel like a kid waiting for Christmas and it's still 3 months away!


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 27, 2020)

Aregal said:


> I think the real gain would be being able to store more footage on a card. The extra processing would lead me to expect more heat and shorter run times...but that's just my $0.02.



Truth is we don't know. 

I would be surprised if Canon hasn't already tested it quickly and they know the heat envelope is lower, otherwise would that not be putting gasoline on the fire again. Unless CRL was always on the plan, I am hoping this will lower the heat for 8K Raw and the storage to boot. I'm also hoping as per above, a lot of it is in Digic as HW routines which will cost less in terms of compute and heat.


----------



## derpderp (Aug 27, 2020)

just bloody fix the overheating issue Canon! The R5 is utterly unusable as a camera at this moment in time! I want my 8K cinema raw with unlimited record times as PROMISED!!!!!
















/s


----------



## Tyler Edwards (Aug 27, 2020)

I am absolutely THRILLED about the updates for the 1DXIII. Shame timelapse movie mode isn't in this update though. Wish that could be included.


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 27, 2020)

landon said:


> R6 you mean? Another poster says Gordon Lang respond to No Life youtuber's video, where he hints at R6 firmware coming.
> I suspect the first R6 firmware will be bug fix just like this first R5 firmware. The subsequent firmware will add features.



Yes, I can see the R6 getting the fixes, the changes in the heat algorithms and then subsequent I think they will get the HD120 and the lower bitrate 4K modes. The HD120 seems to have not quite made the cut - no doubt due to Covid - and the rest will help alleviate the time before you get the overheat warning, and how long it takes to recover.

I think clog3 will only be for the R5 - as others have said - differentiation, but who knows, maybe Canon will surprise us all.


----------



## Chaz320 (Aug 27, 2020)

So... You meant to tell me canon didn’t think of these ideas before they released the flagship mirrorless camera?

This is suppose to be your bread and butter so why leave out helpful tools?


----------



## dafrank (Aug 27, 2020)

derpderp said:


> just bloody fix the overheating issue Canon! The R5 is utterly unusable as a camera at this moment in time! I want my 8K cinema raw with unlimited record times as PROMISED!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Please indicate silly, sarcastic, and otherwise ridiculous comments with symbols or other indicators noting your un-seriousness for those of us who are otherwise left with no idea of what you could possibly believe. Thanks.


----------



## Whowe (Aug 27, 2020)

vangelismm said:


> Lower bit rate option for 8K RAW video recording
> 
> What's the benefit? Less heat?


Smaller File Size and memory requirements...


----------



## AlP (Aug 27, 2020)

landon said:


> R6 you mean? Another poster says Gordon Lang respond to No Life youtuber's video, where he hints at R6 firmware coming.
> I suspect the first R6 firmware will be bug fix just like this first R5 firmware. The subsequent firmware will add features.


From Canon Europe's website:

_Firmware updates for the EOS R6 are also currently in development, including the fixes found in EOS R5 version 1.1.0 firmware._

See https://www.canon-europe.com/press-...anon-announces-eos-r5-firmware-version-1-1-0/


----------



## IggyMo (Aug 27, 2020)

I wish they added clog 3 to the eos r too. That would be great!
They should simply include their different logs in all cameras, just like sony does, even when some of those flatter logs are unusable on the lower end cameras.


----------



## Whowe (Aug 27, 2020)

sanj said:


> Does lower bit rate not equate to a reduction in IQ?


Yes, but choices are a good thing, right?


----------



## cornieleous (Aug 27, 2020)

ClickIt_AC said:


> I don't suppose there are any rumours to update the EOS R firmware with animal AF?


It may not have enough processing power. Despite popular opinion, not everything is possible with just a few lines of code, but data rates for all processing jobs have to be considered and if there is a dedicated ASIC for focus system the R still might not have what is needed. The R uses Digic 8 and DPAF , while R5/6 use Digic X processor that is at least 4 times faster and have DPAF 2.


----------



## Aaron Lozano (Aug 27, 2020)

Are the cooling times improved? I don't see it.


----------



## IggyMo (Aug 27, 2020)

sanj said:


> Does lower bit rate not equate to a reduction in IQ?



It does in a way, but not that much. There is no impact on sharpness, but the higher compression means some information is being averaged out over areas. 
Take the latest A73s which shoots 4k120 in 280mbits/s and it looks great. On the R5 side shooting 4k120 it's around 1800 mbits/s which is an insane amount of data. In theory, the r5 image should be 5 times better, but it isn't.
Higher bitrates allow for more pushing (color grading) in the post before introducing artifacts. But these higher bitrates are nowhere near having the same impact in image quality or even on the latitude for color grading as have resolution and bit depth + chroma subsampling. Both cameras shoot similar 4k and in 10 bit with 422 subsampling. So quality of image is basically the same. The sony has even an edge because of the dynamic range. When Canon adds clog 3, both cameras will have basically the same dynamic range too. At that point, the only thing that will seperate those cameras will be color science. By the way, lower bitrates should extend overheating times if not entirely eliminate them.


----------



## stevensteven (Aug 27, 2020)

landon said:


> LOL Canon!!! You're giving Canon-Sony-Canon-Sony switchers heart attacks


You have no idea. I can’t breathe.


----------



## melgross (Aug 27, 2020)

neurorx said:


> Canon has to justify the price differences between R5 and R6 and 1DX3 and this might be a means to do that.


I highly doubt that. The R5, with 8k recording is being pounded more than the R6, so that has to come first.


----------



## melgross (Aug 27, 2020)

IggyMo said:


> I wish they added clog 3 to the eos r too. That would be great!
> They should simply include their different logs in all cameras, just like sony does, even when some of those flatter logs are unusable on the lower end cameras.


Different sensor and chip. Less dynamic range and more noise. It’s very possible, if not likely, that it can’t manage it.


----------



## reef58 (Aug 27, 2020)

Tyler Edwards said:


> I am absolutely THRILLED about the updates for the 1DXIII. Shame timelapse movie mode isn't in this update though. Wish that could be included.



I would like to see the animal autofocus updates also. Strange time lapse not included.


----------



## Stig Nygaard (Aug 27, 2020)

landon said:


> R6 you mean?



No actually I was thinking about the "confirmed by Canon" future update to *EOS R5* from the original CR posting. Post has no source mentioned, and I haven't seen it mentioned elsewhere. But a later comment gave the answer (plus also promise of update to *EOS R6* too) :






Canon announces EOS R5 firmware version 1.1.0 and future firmware plan for EOS-1D X Mark III and EOS R5 - Canon Press Centre - Canon Europe







www.canon-europe.com





*In addition to the EOS R5 firmware version 1.1.0*, Canon is already working on *further future updates* in response to feedback about the *EOS-1D X Mark III* and *EOS R5*. Canon plans to introduce the following video recording functions via a* series* of future firmware updates for those models.

*EOS-1D X Mark III*

Canon Log 3 option
Lower bit rate option for 5.5K RAW video recording
Lower bit rate option for all the IPB video recording modes
*EOS R5*

Canon Log 3 option
Lower bit rate option for 8K RAW video recording
Lower bit rate option for all the IPB video recording modes
Adding 119.88 fps option for Full HD (1080p) recording
These updates will be available free of charge from the Canon Europe support website in the future. Firmware updates for the *EOS R6 *are also currently in development, including the fixes found in EOS R5 version 1.1.0 firmware.


----------



## snappy604 (Aug 27, 2020)

dafrank said:


> Please indicate silly, sarcastic, and otherwise ridiculous comments with symbols or other indicators noting your un-seriousness for those of us who are otherwise left with no idea of what you could possibly believe. Thanks.




The /s at bottom. Means its sarcastic... a jest


----------



## IggyMo (Aug 27, 2020)

melgross said:


> Different sensor and chip. Less dynamic range and more noise. It’s very possible, if not likely, that it can’t manage it.


Shooting 10bit externally to the Ninja V I think it could work out quite well.


----------



## stevensteven (Aug 27, 2020)

Just a second.... Does Clog3 mean that the R5 is going to have equal dynamic range as the A7SIII for video ? 
Sorry of that's a stupid question...


----------



## cornieleous (Aug 27, 2020)

Chaz320 said:


> So... You meant to tell me canon didn’t think of these ideas before they released the flagship mirrorless camera?
> 
> This is suppose to be your bread and butter so why leave out helpful tools?



Have you ever designed a product and had to get it to market? Not everything can always get done by the market release date. Especially in a year with a pandemic where many things are an extra challenge.


----------



## landon (Aug 27, 2020)

Lower bit-rate in video modes will improve recording limits. Lesser IQ, but more than adequate for run/gun wedding hybrid shooters. 
If filming low-budget high quality short film or interviews, use external recorder for 4KHQ.


----------



## IggyMo (Aug 27, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> Just a second.... Does Clog3 mean that the R5 is going to have equal dynamic range as the A7SIII for video ?
> Sorry of that's a stupid question...


Yes, about 14 stops of real dynamic range. I thinks both would be very close if not the same.


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 27, 2020)

vangelismm said:


> Lower bit rate option for 8K RAW video recording
> 
> What's the benefit? Less heat?


Has anyone complained about R5 8K RAW being too storage space consuming? Nope...not a single troll..
is the R5 overheating being an issue? Heck, yeah..
It appears that Canon is laser focused on what matters the most at this time. And strategically so...
That said, I am under impression that the update related message from Canon likely signified that the second update is not quite ready and at least a month or two away...


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 27, 2020)

landon said:


> Lower bit-rate in video modes will improve recording limits. Lesser IQ, but more than adequate for run/gun wedding hybrid shooters.
> If filming low-budget high quality short film or interviews, use external recorder for 4KHQ.


looking At RAW vs CRAW from a IQ / file size angle, it seems that introduction of Lower bit-rate in video modes would not affect IQ as much. However, may result in bandwidth utilisation reduction by half approximately, resulting in substantial recording limits improvements.


----------



## neurorx (Aug 27, 2020)

melgross said:


> I highly doubt that. The R5, with 8k recording is being pounded more than the R6, so that has to come first.


I had meant this in response to adding as many features to the R5


----------



## SteveC (Aug 27, 2020)

VegasCameraGuy said:


> The R6 might get lost in the dust as the R5 is only a couple of thousand more. Dog food is not that bad!



Ramen is much, much cheaper. So you can buy a second R5.


----------



## SteveC (Aug 27, 2020)

derpderp said:


> just bloody fix the overheating issue Canon! The R5 is utterly unusable as a camera at this moment in time! I want my 8K cinema raw with unlimited record times as PROMISED!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Good sarcasm is an obvious parody...unfortunately many of them act precisely this way, so I needed to see that /s.


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 27, 2020)

neurorx said:


> I had meant this in response to adding as many features to the R5


I keep hearing reports that R5 outsells R6 in nearly 5:1 ratio. Personally, I am convinced that 45Mp sensor advantage in R5 vs 20Mp in R6 is hard to overestimate. the price difference justification is well articulated here. i do not believe that there is a need for a further product differentiation.


----------



## SteveC (Aug 27, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> I keep hearing reports that R5 outsells R6 in nearly 5:1 ration. Personally, I am convinced that 45Mp sensor advantage in R5 vs 20Mp in R6 is hard to overestimate. the price difference justification is well articulated here. i do not believe there is a need for a further product differentiation.



If so, then I would suspect the 20MP sensor was a marketing mistake...perhaps it just seemed like a step down to too many people. One would normally expect a lower tier to perform better than the higher tier in sales, no?


----------



## landon (Aug 27, 2020)

SteveC said:


> If so, then I would suspect the 20MP sensor was a marketing mistake...perhaps it just seemed like a step down to too many people. One would normally expect a lower tier to perform better than the higher tier in sales, no?


Perhaps 5Div users been waiting for a worthy mirrorless upgrade, and the R5 is it. The R6 will get some love from 90D user mirrorless upgrade crowd.


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 27, 2020)

SteveC said:


> If so, then I would suspect the 20MP sensor was a marketing mistake...perhaps it just seemed like a step down to too many people. One would normally expect a lower tier to perform better than the higher tier in sales, no?


I trust that we will see R6 pricing being aggressively reduced and much faster than the same of R5. And that’s by design. 
20Mp sensor is to ensure that pros and prosumers are less tempted with R6. 

personally, I believe that a 30Mp R6 would challenge R5 sales numbers. 30Mp sensor in R or 5D4 has never been an issue for the product target audience. So many would choose to buy R6 over R5. That’s not Canons intention in present limiting market conditions.


----------



## derpderp (Aug 27, 2020)

SteveC said:


> Good sarcasm is an obvious parody...unfortunately many of them act precisely this way, so I needed to see that /s.



that's the effect i wanted to achieve.


----------



## Kanon (Aug 27, 2020)

They can add and put all the bells and whistles they want, but until that recover penalty goes away, they just busting my balls cartman style


----------



## derpderp (Aug 27, 2020)

dafrank said:


> Please indicate silly, sarcastic, and otherwise ridiculous comments with symbols or other indicators noting your un-seriousness for those of us who are otherwise left with no idea of what you could possibly believe. Thanks.



I think it's fairly clear what i believe in or what i was trying to express with that very prominent "/s" at the bottom? Or perhaps my signature would give a good indication?


----------



## Kanon (Aug 27, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> Firmware update for the cool down:
> 
> BEFORE:
> 
> ...


----------



## FitzwaterPhoto (Aug 27, 2020)

Cool - if mine ever comes.


----------



## Skyscraperfan (Aug 27, 2020)

I hope new firmware for the R6 will give us a top display instead of the wheel


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 27, 2020)

Just give us C-Log 3 in the R6 for color matching Cinema cams and the video users will be thrilled. I think at this point, Log Gammas in Cameras like this are too commonplace not to and one of the best things about the R6 for video is using it intended with bigger cams.... but would be nice to get a matching profile


----------



## PureClassA (Aug 27, 2020)

landon said:


> The R6 will be competing with hybrid A7iv. So I'll say it'll get Clog 3, lower bit rates on all video modes. Hoping 4K120p(gimp/crop)


I'd love to see 4K120 OUT on BOTH R5 and R6. The advantage to the R5 being it can do it internally, but only externally on the R6. We have the same CPU on the R6 with less than half the resolution, so while it doesn't have the buffer and internal cards to support those write speeds, it certainly has the juice to capture it.


----------



## landon (Aug 27, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> I'd love to see 4K120 OUT on BOTH R5 and R6. The advantage to the R5 being it can do it internally, but only externally on the R6. We have the same CPU on the R6 with less than half the resolution, so while it doesn't have the buffer and internal cards to support those write speeds, it certainly has the juice to capture it.


4K120p internally would be good for gimbal.


----------



## KeithBreazeal (Aug 27, 2020)

I think the 8K was a huge marketing error. Canon should have gone with an insanely good 4K and frame rates at the release date. All the other features of the R5 sell itself. Meanwhile, the software geeks that they keep in the sound proof padded rooms perfect the 8K features, then put the code on ice. When the competition hints they are going 8K, Canon releases the 8K firmware update and spoils their party.


----------



## Rocksthaman (Aug 27, 2020)

PureClassA said:


> Just give us C-Log 3 in the R6 for color matching Cinema cams and the video users will be thrilled. I think at this point, Log Gammas in Cameras like this are too commonplace not to and one of the best things about the R6 for video is using it intended with bigger cams.... but would be nice to get a matching profile



This It’s so weird it seems the model is to have a cinema camera but to not even have the ability to match record times and log profiles with the hybrid cameras.


----------



## SteveC (Aug 27, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> I trust that we will see R6 pricing being aggressively reduced and much faster than the same of R5. And that’s by design.
> 20Mp sensor is to ensure that pros and prosumers are less tempted with R6.
> 
> personally, I believe that a 30Mp R6 would challenge R5 sales numbers. 30Mp sensor in R or 5D4 has never been an issue for the product target audience. So many would choose to buy R6 over R5. That’s not Canons intention in present limiting market conditions.



I can't disagree with that, as I would likely have bought a 30MP model myself. Of course, it might have split the difference in price, too.


----------



## cornieleous (Aug 27, 2020)

landon said:


> Perhaps 5Div users been waiting for a worthy mirrorless upgrade, and the R5 is it. The R6 will get some love from 90D user mirrorless upgrade crowd.



I think almost anyone pushing a 5D4 or 6D2 to the limits of their capability were looking to these cameras as upgrades. I have been using those for landscape and astro timelapse stills with limited video work and pushing all those capabilities as hard as possible. These new cameras open up a lot of possibilities and so far seem very worth the upgrade, the R5 workflow is awesome. It seems blatant that these are mirrorless successors to those two stills with video models and that the extra long wait for Canon mirrorless was due to the company developing some technology, testing the R, and deciding whether to develop more DSLR or go all in on MILC. Would not be at all surprised if they developed both MILC and DSLR and chose the direction the market was heading.

I think the R5 was always intended to be the MILC 5D5, it is obvious by feature set and price. You have to be very uninformed and ignore the spec. sheet to think it is a full time video camera or otherwise. Sadly many of the consumers today are spoon fed their information by talking heads and amateurs on youtube and cannot really inform themselves well on their own no matter what resources they are presented. Canon marketed the R5 agressively, perhaps too much, to take some thunder away from competitors, but they may have alienated some of that spoiled young crowd when it was revealed the camera was not a dedicated video camera but a stills biased hybrid with some video chops that come with limits.


----------



## Rocksthaman (Aug 27, 2020)

KeithBreazeal said:


> I think the 8K was a huge marketing error. Canon should have gone with an insanely good 4K and frame rates at the release date. All the other features of the R5 sell itself. Meanwhile, the software geeks that they keep in the sound proof padded rooms perfect the 8K features, then put the code on ice. When the competition hints they are going 8K, Canon releases the 8K firmware update and spoils their party.


Right, who in the name of R&D told Canon we wanted 8k and what did it cost/or what feature could we have had in exchange.

Its fine but downsampled 5-6 k would have been amazing to 4kHQ.


----------



## Southstorm (Aug 27, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> looking At RAW vs CRAW from a IQ / file size angle, it seems that introduction of Lower bit-rate in video modes would not affect IQ as much. However, may result in bandwidth utilisation reduction by half approximately, resulting in substantial recording limits improvements.



I'm not sure this is the right comparison...

Canon RAW uses a Lossless compression, which is very efficient. Canon cRAW uses a Lossy compression showing almost no difference when compared to RAW.

Lowering bit-rates really has nothing to do with the compression. It will reduce the processor workload while at the same time lowering the quality of the video. How much depends on the final bit-rate.


----------



## janmaly (Aug 27, 2020)

8bit 420 option for all Canon Logs would be really cool. As almost no computer is able to playback R5's 10bit 422. Unless you create proxy files .


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 27, 2020)

Southstorm said:


> I'm not sure this is the right comparison...
> 
> Canon RAW uses a Lossless compression, which is very efficient. Canon cRAW uses a Lossy compression showing almost no difference when compared to RAW.
> 
> Lowering bit-rates really has nothing to do with the compression. It will reduce the processor workload while at the same time lowering the quality of the video. How much depends on the final bit-rate.


Sure. The question remains: would lowering bit-rates reduction by 50% results in equally Noticeable video IQ degradation? what’s is the trade off here?


----------



## BeenThere (Aug 27, 2020)

Rocksthaman said:


> Right, who in the name of R&D told Canon we wanted 8k and what did it cost/or what feature could have as in exchange.
> 
> Its fine but downsampled 5-6 k would have been amazing to 4kHQ.


Sometimes the marketing people lead the band.


----------



## Daner (Aug 27, 2020)

ClickIt_AC said:


> I don't suppose there are any rumours to update the EOS R firmware with animal AF?



The enhanced AF functions such as Animal AF have so far only been seen on cameras with DPAF2 and Digic X processors. The EOS R has neither.

Focus stacking, on the other hand, is a feature on the RP but not the R, so one would think that that feature could be added to the R via firmware since the processor on the R is not inferior to that on the RP.


----------



## Skux (Aug 27, 2020)

Imagine if the lower bitrates didn't increase recording time before overheating


----------



## Ozarker (Aug 27, 2020)

Shooting video yesterday and today with my iPhone 8+ in 4K and it keeps overheating.


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 27, 2020)

Skux said:


> Imagine if the lower bitrates didn't increase recording time before overheating


I suspect that it may improve recovery times instead if less total amount of heat was generated due to lower payload on CFE which seems to be one of the major heat generators here? Less heat generated = less heat to dissipate..


----------



## cornieleous (Aug 27, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Shooting video yesterday and today with my iPhone 8+ in 4K and it keeps overheating.


Apple has clearly crippled it then, and they are *******! Try jamming a screwdriver in the charge port and see if it fixes it.


----------



## BeenThere (Aug 27, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Shooting video yesterday and today with my iPhone 8+ in 4K and it keeps overheating.


Apple is D........ Well you know.


----------



## tomislavmoze (Aug 27, 2020)

SteveC said:


> I can't disagree with that, as I would likely have bought a 30MP model myself. Of course, it might have split the difference in price, too.


I can say as previus owner of both 5dmk4 and the R that the R6 files are on par to those cameras, the file is much sharper and if you upscale it to 30mpx comparable to those two cameras. That is my experience so far from working with R6 files. Also I own a R5 and have to say that the R6 is for some reason so much more fun to use, fell in love int R6 on the first photo-shot 3 days ago. A lot of photographers use 1dx series for serious photoshoots. I often chose my 1dx to 5dmk4 in some big commercial shots and did not regret it, the file from those sensors is easily pushed 30% up if needed for print. Same goes for the R6.


----------



## TMHKR (Aug 27, 2020)

vangelismm said:


> Lower bit rate option for 8K RAW video recording
> 
> What's the benefit? Less heat?


Yes, at least on the CFexpress end. Lower bitrate = less Mbps to continuously write to the card.


----------



## IggyMo (Aug 27, 2020)

janmaly said:


> 8bit 420 option for all Canon Logs would be really cool. As almost no computer is able to playback R5's 10bit 422. Unless you create proxy files .


It has nothing to do with 10 bit 422. It's the h265 codec compression that is not well supported by current editing software and hardware that is at fault. If it was 10 bit 422 in the older h264 codec we're all used to, there would be absolutely no problem. This software/hardware support will eventually get an update and all will be fine.


----------



## Southstorm (Aug 27, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> Sure. The question remains: would lowering bit-rates reduction by 50% results in equally Noticeable video IQ degradation? what’s is the trade off here?



Based purely on my own speculation I imagine there is a LOT of room to lower bit-rates on Canon's CODEC since they have everything at such high bit-rates to start with. A proper CODEC only needs so many bits to work with, anything extra is just fluff. 470mbps for 4K30p fine is a very large bit-rate for h265.


----------



## IggyMo (Aug 27, 2020)

In other R5 news relating to the firmware update that just came out. Professional filmaker "wolfcrow" on his youtube channel reports major improvements in the overheating department. Now, even the 8k RAW is absolutely usable on professional shoots. He reports much longer recording times and very, very quick recovery times. Now I'm pretty sure that in conjuction with the future update that will give lower bitrate options and canon raw light, the overheating issue will be completely resolved allowing unlimited recording times.


----------



## photoenix (Aug 27, 2020)

they should bring back mRAW and sRAW


----------



## IggyMo (Aug 27, 2020)

Southstorm said:


> Based purely on my own speculation I imagine there is a LOT of room to lower bit-rates on Canon's CODEC since they have everything at such high bit-rates to start with. A proper CODEC only needs so many bits to work with, anything extra is just fluff. 470mbps for 4K30p fine is a very large bit-rate for h265.


Yeah, not much degradation at all. Sony a7'3 users have been shooting 4k with a 100mbps for years and it looked great. The only thing that was limiting its quality was the lack of 10 bit 422. 8 bit 420 falls apart pretty quickly when colorgrading. Canon could easily cut its bitrates in half and you wouldn't notice anything. Heck the brand new A73S shoots 4k120 at 280mbits which is still half of canon's 4k24!!! Canon 4k120 sits at an outrageous 1800 mbits or so... this is way too much and unnecessarily so.


----------



## melgross (Aug 27, 2020)

derpderp said:


> just bloody fix the overheating issue Canon! The R5 is utterly unusable as a camera at this moment in time! I want my 8K cinema raw with unlimited record times as PROMISED!!!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You say “fix” as though it’s a design error that can be corrected. It’s not. It was a deliberate decision to offer these modes, knowing that there would be consequences.

The ignorance out there is startling! 

Most people, including most all of those big names on YouTube, don’t seem to know it, even very expensive hi rez video equipment is cooled between shooting scenes or clips. It’s surprising to go on set and see fans blowing on the cameras while they’re sitting there while everyone is on break.


----------



## snappy604 (Aug 27, 2020)

melgross said:


> You say “fix” as though it’s a design error that can be corrected. It’s not. It was a deliberate decision to offer these modes, knowing that there would be consequences.
> 
> The ignorance out there is startling!
> 
> Most people, including most all of those big names on YouTube, don’t seem to know it, even very expensive hi rez video equipment is cooled between shooting scenes or clips. It’s surprising to go on set and see fans blowing on the cameras while they’re sitting there while everyone is on break.



*whoosh* another fish took the bait ;-) ... not mine, but notice the /s at the bottom 

bravo to who did it, hit too close to home to many.


----------



## Hector1970 (Aug 27, 2020)

The R5 is a great camera. That it can have such great photography and video capabilities in the one camera is amazing. That you can record 8K at all is amazing. Great too that Canon is doing firmware upgrades for it. At the same time the video capability of the camera must be the biggest overkill in a consumer product ever. I'd say most of the footage taken with it will never be processed and never seen in 8K. I think the video quality has gone along way through the path of diminishing returns. I think once HD was achieved thats about all was required. Better video doesn't require better image quality it needs better content, locations, scripts etc. The same thing videoed in HD and 8K is more or less the same thing to the viewer. Given the lack of 8K devices most of the output ends up at HD at best. There are not too many devices where its main selling point is practically irrelevant for most of its buyers. It's probably partially that its hard to emphasise improvements from the photography perspective. Improvements while good are marginal and perhaps not eyecatching.


----------



## NorskHest (Aug 27, 2020)

This makes me happy


----------



## tomislavmoze (Aug 27, 2020)

Hector1970 said:


> The R5 is a great camera. That it can have such great photography and video capabilities in the one camera is amazing. That you can record 8K at all is amazing. Great too that Canon is doing firmware upgrades for it. At the same time the video capability of the camera must be the biggest overkill in a consumer product ever. I'd say most of the footage taken with it will never be processed and never seen in 8K. I think the video quality has gone along way through the path of diminishing returns. I think once HD was achieved thats about all was required. Better video doesn't require better image quality it needs better content, locations, scripts etc. The same thing videoed in HD and 8K is more or less the same thing to the viewer. Given the lack of 8K devices most of the output ends up at HD at best. There are not too many devices where its main selling point is practically irrelevant for most of its buyers. It's probably partially that its hard to emphasise improvements from the photography perspective. Improvements while good are marginal and perhaps not eyecatching.


the problem is that your perspective does not come from the professional video point of view. 8K is not there to be used as an final 8K product but to give flexibility in editing,like reframing, or u can use one camera as basically 3 different view angles in an interview scenario which allows easier editing of the whatever the subject is speaking of. Better quality of master shots etc....
Also there are lot of use case scenarios in photography with screen grabs especially with 8K raw video.
The problem is that all that is used by smaller part of the R5 owners, but still there are some that will use it...I'm one of them. Will work fine as a B or a C camera at some of the larger projects I do...


----------



## Steve Balcombe (Aug 27, 2020)

landon said:


> Perhaps 5Div users been waiting for a worthy mirrorless upgrade, and the R5 is it. The R6 will get some love from 90D user mirrorless upgrade crowd.


I have a 5D4 and a 90D - the R5 will be a superb upgrade for the 5D4, but the R6 is not in contention at all to replace the 90D. The AF would be a big improvement obviously, but (assuming the 90D was the correct choice when I bought it, which it was) why would I want to swap a 32.5 MP crop sensor for 20 MP full frame? For double the price? 

The R6 will be a nice step up from the 6D/6D2, but my guess (based on human nature rather than any actual data) is that R6 sales won't be fuelled by the pent-up demand that we see for the R5. It will be a successful slow burner.


----------



## cornieleous (Aug 27, 2020)

Hector1970 said:


> The R5 is a great camera. That it can have such great photography and video capabilities in the one camera is amazing. That you can record 8K at all is amazing. Great too that Canon is doing firmware upgrades for it. At the same time the video capability of the camera must be the biggest overkill in a consumer product ever. I'd say most of the footage taken with it will never be processed and never seen in 8K. I think the video quality has gone along way through the path of diminishing returns. I think once HD was achieved thats about all was required. Better video doesn't require better image quality it needs better content, locations, scripts etc. The same thing videoed in HD and 8K is more or less the same thing to the viewer. Given the lack of 8K devices most of the output ends up at HD at best. There are not too many devices where its main selling point is practically irrelevant for most of its buyers. It's probably partially that its hard to emphasise improvements from the photography perspective. Improvements while good are marginal and perhaps not eyecatching.



I agree with some of what you have said, but the main selling point for most of us on R5 is *NOT the 8K or HQ video modes*. I think the marketing was aggressive on video (why not try to get more customer base) and people are easily manipulated to emotion before thinking.

I'd actually like to see a survey if it were possible, but speculate the vast majority of actual R5 owners are not vloggers and other video gear heads. The R5 is a MILC 5D5 stills camera with very good basic 4K30 and some limited duty extremely high quality video; it cannot be said enough times what this camera is and is not. People have to look at the facts of the camera and not get tricked by big bullets and marketing, nor by the legions of moronic reviewers who make fallacious statements every other sentence. I cannot be the only one who skips commercials and doesn't read marketing or listen to youtube morons, but goes right to datasheets... Or if needed, rents equipment to learn about it? I guess that requires effort or an investment of time or small amounts of money, and its no effort or investment to just watch some talking head and parrot what they "found" on their ad revenue or sponsored "channels".

To say that the HQ video (here I mean anything above HD) is never needed is not true. There are plenty of legit uses for 4K60 and 120. 4K60 produces smoother footage, even presented at 1080. 4K120 is for slow motion. 8K and 4K can be cropped heavily to 1080, or downsampled for higher quality at the lower resolution. So there are many real uses where quality increase over HD is significant even if finally presented in HD, and many things that just need high frame rates. A lot of TVs and monitors support 4K and 4K is even noticeably better on some laptop displays despite all the distance charts you'll find stating it is impossible to tell the difference- you can indeed notice it. The best use of the high frame rate modes are motorsports, airshows, sports, animals, action etc. Unless one is paid to document entire events of that nature, the limits in R5 should be no big deal, and if someone is a pro or even a serious amateur instead of a whiner focusing on negatives, they should already have adequate gear or look to a dedicated video camera instead of complaining about the reality of the R5. Most amateurs and vloggers (who seem to be the loudest and least educated of everyone talking about the R5) don't need what they think they do, because frankly most of their content sucks, especially if their content is about making content, not actually making content. That is where I strongly agree with you- good content is planned, has good techniques, locations, scripts (when not spontaneous), etc. A good 1080 production will be way better than a bad 4K+ one.

Personally I love the R5 for stills and the basic 4K30 will suit my needs the vast majority of times I would need long video record times or a reliable 4K video mode while shooting long stills events that also heat the camera. In the rare event I need more, either I will rent, or work with the limited 4K60/120 since I shoot short somewhat planned clips. My professional Sony NXCAM (just sold) that I used for weather stringing to media outlets, and infrequent documentary and interview work still only had 4K30 and a small 1" sensor, yet I hardly considered it unusable all the sudden like all these childish fools who follow the latest youtube trends. It did become redundant and didn't have much going for it the R5 cannot do better, so it paid for a large chunk of my R5.

Interviews and most docile (non action) events in 4K60 or over sampled is in my opinion completely not needed and just looks more smoothly boring. Most of the people who think they need the best with long record times in a tiny MILC simply don't; but they have become attached emotionally to having to have the best or not be told no. These are the types who change brands with loud fanfare all the time or throw a tantrum about not getting it all in a tiny cheap body instead of just buying professional grade dedicated video tools that work for them and moving on. They are the same people on dozens and dozens of forums and youtube channels posting completely unsubstantiated cripple hammer gibberish and they think they are 100% right but skipped all the logic and thinking and proving and learning about electronics. Professional vs. childish behavior, and the mob mentality is well established against the R5 and Canon now. 4K60 and up is only recently possible in MILC full frame but 4k30 is somehow unusable trash and any limitation is unacceptable. It boggles the mind, and I cannot even blame some sloppy Canon marketing for this- I think people are going crazy, genuinely crazy, as irrationality is now mainstream.

I am rambling on yet again, but this is the depth of discussion that should be being had, instead of whining toddler speak accusing Canon of cripple hammer this or that, or saying thermal timers are fake with the most pathetic "proof" by amateur tinkerers who think themselves engineers. Sometimes, you do have to do the hard thinking and learning to be taken seriously.


----------



## PhotoRN86 (Aug 27, 2020)

Do you guys think there will be any chance they'd give the R5 4K or 1080p Raw Options?


----------



## analoggrotto (Aug 27, 2020)

VegasCameraGuy said:


> Dog food is not that bad!


Makes that animal eye detect all the more useful.


----------



## TAF (Aug 27, 2020)

addola said:


> I fear that the R5 will be getting all the good updates/upgrades while the R6 will get close to nothing.



Perhaps you should wait until they actually start shipping R6’s before getting fearful that Canon won’t make future improvements.


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 27, 2020)

KeithBreazeal said:


> I think the 8K was a huge marketing error.




I think YouTube fools hyping unattainable wishlists as facts to mindless viewers who never took two minutes to educate themselves on what was actually attainable based on what had been done previously are more the problem than anything Canon “marketed...”

I still remember when the mere mention of 8K was referred to only in terms of a potential time lapse mode. How we went from that to endless childish ranting about not getting unlimited 8K and all these other things that were never promised Is stunning.

We got a wonderful camera that offers capabilities no other camera even comes close to but the idiot fringe (we all know you’re out there) still cries about the unattainable.

People are sticking rice in the battery door and calling overheating limits ‘crippleware’ without a shred of technical competence to back it up, yet somehow they draw an audience of lap dogs to join the chant. It’s everywhere.

There was some marketing all right, but it wasn’t Canon. People need to turn off YouTube and do their own homework.


----------



## David - Sydney (Aug 27, 2020)

vangelismm said:


> Lower bit rate option for 8K RAW video recording
> 
> What's the benefit? Less heat?


Hopefully that will mean that 8K raw and 4k/120 (lite) can be recorded externally as well


----------



## David - Sydney (Aug 27, 2020)

janmaly said:


> 8bit 420 option for all Canon Logs would be really cool. As almost no computer is able to playback R5's 10bit 422. Unless you create proxy files .


Actually, the iPad Pro can playback 8k 422 as their arm processor has native support for H265. See Max's explanation and option. I will wait to upgrade my macbook pro to arm processor because of this. I will have it for a long time so I want to make sure that it can edit the footage easily when I want to in the future


----------



## David - Sydney (Aug 27, 2020)

photomachine said:


> they should bring back mRAW and sRAW


Why? mRaw and sRAW have lower resolution wheras cRaw has full resolution with a minimum loss of quality. When scaled to the same res then they would be indistinguishable (IMO).


----------



## calfoto (Aug 28, 2020)

photomachine said:


> they should bring back mRAW and sRAW



I totally agree - There are many assignments I shoot where the full R5 resolution is complete overkill for the intended end use. Don't get me wrong, the standard resolution is great and I love having it, but a downsizing option would be great...

Something else I'd like to see would be the availability to use the "Zebra" patterns in the viewfinder when shooting stills - As of now it's only an option for video.
It would be extremely useful to have an indication of overexposure in the viewfinder while shooting as opposed to only the flashing Black/White you see while reviewing after the fact. Optimally I'd love to have a choice of Zebra or the Classic Black/White overexposure indcator in finder for stills


----------



## Famateur (Aug 28, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> I keep hearing reports that R5 outsells R6 in nearly 5:1 ratio. Personally, I am convinced that 45Mp sensor advantage in R5 vs 20Mp in R6 is hard to overestimate. the price difference justification is well articulated here. i do not believe that there is a need for a further product differentiation.



I wouldn't be surprised if the reports you've heard are true.

Of course, I'm only a sample of one, but in my move from APS-C to full-frame, my choice tipped to the R5, despite the price difference (and that difference representing the opportunity cost of getting a nice RF lens with the difference). Here's what did it for me:

1) *Resolution --* 45MP means that I don't lose any "reach" going from APS-C to full frame. In fact, I get an _increase _in reach! A 32MP full-frame image, cropped down to the 20MP I'm used to would have been break-even, reach-wise. That extra 12MP beyond the theoretical break-even means I actually gain 40% _more _in reach going full frame (did I do my math right?)! Again, the "reach" is assuming I cropped down to the 20MP I'm used to. Had I chosen the R6, I would have lost the 1.6x crop factor's reach because they're both 20MP.*

2) *Low-Light Performance --* At first, this was a tough one for me because the R6 was being reported as a bit cleaner than the R5, pixel for pixel. Most of the in-depth comparisons I've seen so far, though, show that when compressed down to 20MP, the R5 is just as clean, if not more. Compressing down to 20MP occasionally when I need a cleaner file is better than always having to shoot at 20MP, I think. I can't just scale up from 20MP to 45MP when the light is good!

3) *Shoulder Display --* I've become so accustomed to using the shoulder display on my 70D, that I don't want to have to live without it.

4) *It's Time --* I've been patient, living in the APS-C world with L lenses for many years, biding my time for when the right full-frame camera came along. I've never bought a car newer than 10 years. I've never been in debt (except mortgage). I rarely splurge on something for myself. I'm not a professional photographer. But. I think it's finally time, and the R5 is it. I would be happy as a clam if it lasts me the next 10+ years. I've been happy with the 70D for 7 years, but have finally gotten to the point that, while it's not holding me back, per se, there are shots I could get (or get more easily) with the R5 that I would likely miss with the 70D. That face and eye AF tracking....(whistles)...

5) *Video --* Wait...what's video? 

Anyway, that's a long-winded +1 to the idea that there might be more R5 buyers than R6 buyers moving up from APS-C (at least initially). Anyone else in a similar boat? Of course, R6 might eventually out-pace the R5 several years down the road, especially as street prices settle over time...

_* I admit that I used to say that all I want is a full-frame version of my 70D. The 6DII was pretty much that, but...knowing there was a better sensor generation already in the wild...but the 6DII used an earlier one...felt like I'd be buying something that was old before I even opened it. Plus, those AF points seemed so crammed into the middle of the frame. The R6 blows the 6DII away, and but for the missing shoulder display, was all I wanted and a ton more. I would have done the happy dance all the way to checkout at Adorama...if it weren't for that R5 (as explained above)._


----------



## SteveC (Aug 28, 2020)

Famateur said:


> 1) *Resolution --* 45MP means that I don't lose any "reach" going from APS-C to full frame. In fact, I get an _increase _in reach! A 32MP full-frame image, cropped down to the 20MP I'm used to would have been break-even, reach-wise. That extra 12MP beyond the theoretical break-even means I actually gain 40% _more _in reach going full frame (did I do my math right?)! Again, the "reach" is assuming I cropped down to the 20MP I'm used to. Had I chosen the R6, I would have lost the 1.6x crop factor's reach because they're both 20MP.*



Uh, no. 1.6 crop factor must be multiplied by itself when comparing pixel counts, a full frame sensor with the same pixel density must have 2.56 times as many pixels as an APS-C. Thus 20MP APS-C is equivalent to 51.2 MP on a full frame. You're still going to lose a bit of reach even with the R5, which (when cropped to APS-C size) will give you about 17.6 MP.

But that just makes the R6 even more of a stinker from your point of view, its 20 MP, cropped down to APS-C is 7.8125 MP. And that's pretty much why I didn't want to do that one. I don't expect to be cropping for reach, but geez, even my Rebel and M50 have 24 MP.


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 28, 2020)

SteveC said:


> R6 even more of a stinker from your point of view,


----------



## highdesertmesa (Aug 28, 2020)

mccasi said:


> Clog 3 and FHD 120p, that fits many wishlists well.
> I guess my personal wishlist will be unfulfilled, I bought my R5 in China, and cannot change image.canon to US/UK server and can only get my photos into Baidu not even the app. No option to choose and no way i can get a Baidu account even.



When you update the firmware the first time using the USA site download, maybe it will change the server. Hopefully it’s not hardware-based coding like BlueRay/DVD players. That would be a tricky way to ruin most all grey market sales.


----------



## highdesertmesa (Aug 28, 2020)

Skyscraperfan said:


> I hope new firmware for the R6 will give us a top display instead of the wheel



The analog dial on the R6 is one of the reasons I like it  The R/R5 mode wheel is two steps to change the mode instead of one, and it interrupts my process by making me think about what I’m doing instead of just doing it intuitively.


----------



## highdesertmesa (Aug 28, 2020)

Steve Balcombe said:


> The R6 ... ...will be a successful slow burner.



Great way to put it. Much like the R was.


----------



## mpeeps (Aug 28, 2020)

Famateur said:


> I wouldn't be surprised if the reports you've heard are true.
> 
> Of course, I'm only a sample of one, but in my move from APS-C to full-frame, my choice tipped to the R5, despite the price difference (and that difference representing the opportunity cost of getting a nice RF lens with the difference). Here's what did it for me:
> 
> ...


IMHO, you should have gone full frame many years ago with your L lenses. No comparison, even after cropping.


----------



## futzy (Aug 28, 2020)

derpderp said:


> just bloody fix the overheating issue Canon! The R5 is utterly unusable as a camera at this moment in time! I want my 8K cinema raw with unlimited record times as PROMISED!!!!!
> /s


Find me one material where they promised “UNLIMITED 8K recording”! 8K yes, unlimited? No.


----------



## cornieleous (Aug 28, 2020)

snappy604 said:


> *whoosh* another fish took the bait ;-) ... not mine, but notice the /s at the bottom
> 
> bravo to who did it, hit too close to home to many.




It's really not all that funny of a joke to use some tiny symbol to indicate sarcasm that is easily missed. Discussing with people and deliberately trying to piss them off is an ego game and kinda petty. It is basically trolling for a laugh but with none of the style of Andy Kaufman. Sarcasm should be funny by being obvious.

That specific post is perhaps close to home because I think many of us are sick of people who are making serious statements like that like spoiled irrational children. It's all over the world in every topic and its lowering the quality of not just discourse but life. 

So yea, sarcasm should be indicated clearly. Note: I have been guilty of this mistake myself, feeling my sarcasm is obvious when it was not.


----------



## Famateur (Aug 28, 2020)

SteveC said:


> Uh, no. 1.6 crop factor must be multiplied by itself when comparing pixel counts.



Wheels...slowly...turning. Some creaking...

Ah!

Is that because we're dealing with area, not focal length? In other words, multiply both sensor length and width (in pixels) by 1.6, respectively, before multiplying those products to determine equivalent resolution (area in pixels)?

That makes sense. I think.

Well, shoot.

While it's not what I was imagining, I agree: it at least demonstrates* that the R5 is still clearly better for me!  

Thanks for the correction, Steve!












_*And supports the idea that I should be saving up for a something like an RF 100-500. _


----------



## cornieleous (Aug 28, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> The analog dial on the R6 is one of the reasons I like it  The R/R5 mode wheel is two steps to change the mode instead of one, and it interrupts my process by making me think about what I’m doing instead of just doing it intuitively.



How often are you changing modes? I think you could learn the new button press 'extra step' in a day. The 5D series or 6D and 7D series all had a button to unlock mode dials, so it seems pretty natural on R5 to me.


----------



## Famateur (Aug 28, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> It's really not all that funny of a joke to use some tiny symbol to indicate sarcasm that is easily missed.



See, this is why I think the internet world should consider my suggestion: We have italics to add emphasis to text. Italic fonts always "fall" forward in their slant. What if we used a backward slant italic for sarcasm?

I would totally dig that...


----------



## derpderp (Aug 28, 2020)

Famateur said:


> See, this is why I think the internet world should consider my suggestion: We have italics to add emphasis to text. Italic fonts always "fall" forward in their slant. What if we used a backward slant italic for sarcasm?
> 
> I would totally dig that...



based on his 'standards', i'm afraid that wouldn't be obvious enough. He apparently requires huge indicators and warning statements to every sarcastic post.


----------



## derpderp (Aug 28, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> It's really not all that funny of a joke to use some tiny symbol to indicate sarcasm that is easily missed. Discussing with people and deliberately trying to piss them off is an ego game and kinda petty. It is basically trolling for a laugh but with none of the style of Andy Kaufman. Sarcasm should be funny by being obvious.
> 
> That specific post is perhaps close to home because I think many of us are sick of people who are making serious statements like that like spoiled irrational children. It's all over the world in every topic and its lowering the quality of not just discourse but life.
> 
> So yea, sarcasm should be indicated clearly. Note: I have been guilty of this mistake myself, feeling my sarcasm is obvious when it was not.



It's my post. I think its fairly obvious that my comment was made in jest. It hitting close to home makes it even better.


----------



## Famateur (Aug 28, 2020)

mpeeps said:


> IMHO, you should have gone full frame many years ago with your L lenses. No comparison, even after cropping.



I would totally agree (and your comment makes me all the more excited that it's finally happening!). Alas, a family of eight to provide for bumps hobby photography down the priority list a few notches for me. No regrets, though. Still managed to wring out some pretty excellent images, if I say so myself. On the brighter side, I've had all this time to save up!


----------



## Famateur (Aug 28, 2020)

derpderp said:


> based on his 'standards', i'm afraid that wouldn't be obvious enough. He apparently requires huge indicators and warning statements to every sarcastic post.



Just gotta give it time to become mainstream, like these. 

(I understand your particular point, though. Personally, I think placing the /s so far down adds effect, like a well-timed joke from a comedian...)


----------



## Paul Nordin (Aug 28, 2020)

dafrank said:


> Please indicate silly, sarcastic, and otherwise ridiculous comments with symbols or other indicators noting your un-seriousness for those of us who are otherwise left with no idea of what you could possibly believe. Thanks.


 Also, It will keep those of us who are shooting with the R5 from throwing it at the computer screen when we see such rediculousness. LOL


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 28, 2020)

derpderp said:


> It's my post. I think its fairly obvious that my comment was made in jest. It hitting close to home makes it even better.


I fail to see how /s relates to anything, it certainly doesn’t resemble an element close and why would you leave so many lines empty? 

Very sloppy faux ‘coding‘ at best and very easily misunderstood.


----------



## Paul Nordin (Aug 28, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> looking At RAW vs CRAW from a IQ / file size angle, it seems that introduction of Lower bit-rate in video modes would not affect IQ as much. However, may result in bandwidth utilisation reduction by half approximately, resulting in substantial recording limits improvements.


 It just depends on where the balance point is. More compression means the CPU is working harder on each frame and generating more heat, but also less bandwidth hitting the data bus and the CFexpress card, which will create less heat.


----------



## Paul Nordin (Aug 28, 2020)

Southstorm said:


> I'm not sure this is the right comparison...
> 
> Canon RAW uses a Lossless compression, which is very efficient. Canon cRAW uses a Lossy compression showing almost no difference when compared to RAW.
> 
> Lowering bit-rates really has nothing to do with the compression. It will reduce the processor workload while at the same time lowering the quality of the video. How much depends on the final bit-rate.


 Guess it all depends on how that lower bit-rate is achieved. Line skipping = you are right, higher FF compression = you may be wrong.


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 28, 2020)

Paul Nordin said:


> It just depends on where the balance point is. More compression means the CPU is working harder on each frame and generating more heat, but also less bandwidth hitting the data bus and the CFexpress card, which will create less heat.


That’s correct. I was more so referring that lowering bandwidth would not necessarily result in considerable video IQ quality Loss.
my gut feeling is though that making CPU working harder while offloading CFE data bus will result in a cooler running system in overall.


----------



## derpderp (Aug 28, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> I fail to see how /s relates to anything, it certainly doesn’t resemble an element close and why would you leave so many lines empty?
> 
> Very sloppy faux ‘coding‘ at best and very easily misunderstood.



haha i'm afraid this is a matter of a generation gap. "/s" is often used in other scenarios to indicate sarcasm. apologies if it has led to confusion.


----------



## highdesertmesa (Aug 28, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> How often are you changing modes? I think you could learn the new button press 'extra step' in a day. The 5D series or 6D and 7D series all had a button to unlock mode dials, so it seems pretty natural on R5 to me.



Yeah I learned it, I just don’t like it 

Analog dial is: look at dial, move dial. Mode dial is: look at mode dial, push center, look at screen, turn dial the correct direction to new mode, half-press shutter to commit and get back to shooting.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 28, 2020)

derpderp said:


> haha i'm afraid this is a matter of a generation gap. "/s" is often used in other scenarios to indicate sarcasm. apologies if it has led to confusion.


Well I am glad to keep learning. Though it seems even your generations etiquette would not have you leave spaces after the sentence.


----------



## David - Sydney (Aug 28, 2020)

futzy said:


> Find me one material where they promised “UNLIMITED 8K recording”! 8K yes, unlimited? No.


Not excusing Canon marketing for their exuberance but they did say that they are "achieving the impossible" without any pesky asterisks against the 8k video in their marketing. 
Hyperbole = standard speak for marketers.
https://www.canon-europe.com/press-...2020/03/canon-reveals-further-eos-r5-details/


----------



## Twinix (Aug 28, 2020)

calfoto said:


> Something else I'd like to see would be the availability to use the "Zebra" patterns in the viewfinder when shooting stills - As of now it's only an option for video.
> It would be extremely useful to have an indication of overexposure in the viewfinder while shooting as opposed to only the flashing Black/White you see while reviewing after the fact. Optimally I'd love to have a choice of Zebra or the Classic Black/White overexposure indcator in finder for stills


Canon has a feedback form on product improvements where you can list software and hardware suggestions. You really should do that. Let me know if you need a link.


----------



## SteveC (Aug 28, 2020)

derpderp said:


> based on his 'standards', i'm afraid that wouldn't be obvious enough. He apparently requires huge indicators and warning statements to every sarcastic post.



Some people are just literal minded. One dear lady I know on another forum can be relied on to miss my point if it's not direct. (And to make things worse, Brits often complain Americans don't do irony very well--I have no idea if that was in play here. But i agree with the complaint, I've had too many Americans miss my irony--even though I'm an American too.) 

And as he pointed out (and so did I even though I did catch the sarcasm), there are people who _really think_ the way you were pretending to think. That tends to make sarcasm less obvious, and if the sarcasm is missed, then the natural thought is, "oh another one of those assholes."

I do think you buried the sarcasm marker a little bit too deep, maybe only three or four blank lines would have worked better.


----------



## SteveC (Aug 28, 2020)

Famateur said:


> Wheels...slowly...turning. Some creaking...
> 
> Ah!
> 
> Is that because we're dealing with area, not focal length? In other words, multiply both sensor length and width (in pixels) by 1.6, respectively, before multiplying those products to determine equivalent resolution (area in pixels)?



It's absolutely an area thing. Just think, each pixel is so many millionths of a millimeter wide by so many millionths of a millimeter tall, and it's the area of the pixel that matters when you're talking reach. And of course they're in a grid that X number of pixels wide by Y number of pixels tall.


That makes sense. I think.

Well, shoot.



Famateur said:


> While it's not what I was imagining, I agree: it at least demonstrates* that the R5 is still clearly better for me!
> 
> Thanks for the correction, Steve!
> 
> _*And supports the idea that I should be saving up for a something like an RF 100-500. _



It's absolutely better for you. In fact, you can even set the camera to be in crop mode and only use the central part of the sensor. Ba-da-bing!! You have an APS-C 17 MP camera! I think the reason most 7D shooters don't want to do that is just simply the cost. Of course it can double as a full frame for those times when you really do want a full frame.

As for your lens idea, it's a good one. I shoot EF-M a lot _and_ I bought an EF 100-400 II L fairly recently. The fact that I can use that on every camera I have and it's new means I won't be getting the RF 100-500 L but I'm getting the impression that's going to be a real winner.


----------



## sanj (Aug 28, 2020)

IggyMo said:


> It does in a way, but not that much. There is no impact on sharpness, but the higher compression means some information is being averaged out over areas.
> Take the latest A73s which shoots 4k120 in 280mbits/s and it looks great. On the R5 side shooting 4k120 it's around 1800 mbits/s which is an insane amount of data. In theory, the r5 image should be 5 times better, but it isn't.
> Higher bitrates allow for more pushing (color grading) in the post before introducing artifacts. But these higher bitrates are nowhere near having the same impact in image quality or even on the latitude for color grading as have resolution and bit depth + chroma subsampling. Both cameras shoot similar 4k and in 10 bit with 422 subsampling. So quality of image is basically the same. The sony has even an edge because of the dynamic range. When Canon adds clog 3, both cameras will have basically the same dynamic range too. At that point, the only thing that will seperate those cameras will be color science. By the way, lower bitrates should extend overheating times if not entirely eliminate them.


 Thank you sir for a wonderful reply


----------



## Ben Sparrow (Aug 28, 2020)

vangelismm said:


> Lower bit rate option for 8K RAW video recording
> 
> What's the benefit? Less heat?


 Good question. I wonder if the low bit rate RAW light is as good as the RAW light on the Canon C200 or not.


----------



## sanj (Aug 28, 2020)

melgross said:


> You say “fix” as though it’s a design error that can be corrected. It’s not. It was a deliberate decision to offer these modes, knowing that there would be consequences.
> 
> The ignorance out there is startling!
> 
> Most people, including most all of those big names on YouTube, don’t seem to know it, even very expensive hi rez video equipment is cooled between shooting scenes or clips. It’s surprising to go on set and see fans blowing on the cameras while they’re sitting there while everyone is on break.


Naaaa. What are you talking about?? I film so many days a year, been to many sets. NO FANS.


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 28, 2020)

SteveC said:


> And as he pointed out (and so did I even though I did catch the sarcasm), there are people who _really think_ the way you were pretending to think. That tends to make sarcasm less obvious, and if the sarcasm is missed, then the natural thought is, "oh another one of those assholes."




Bingo. It has nothing to do with ‘generational issues....’


----------



## lightingb (Aug 28, 2020)

Stig Nygaard said:


> Where/how has this been confirmed?








Canon announces EOS R5 firmware version 1.1.0 and future firmware plan for EOS-1D X Mark III and EOS R5 - Canon Press Centre - Canon Europe







www.canon-europe.com


----------



## Famateur (Aug 28, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Not excusing Canon marketing for their exuberance but they did say that they are "achieving the impossible" without any pesky asterisks against the 8k video in their marketing.
> Hyperbole = standard speak for marketers.
> https://www.canon-europe.com/press-...2020/03/canon-reveals-further-eos-r5-details/



Please see this video from Canon USA, which was specifically about the video features of the R5: 






You only have to go 10 seconds in to see pesky asterisk #2, which states:

"*2 8K movie recording (RAW, DCI, UHD) has restriction on possible recording time due to camera internal temperature rise. Max possible recording time is approx. 20 min. (at room termperature)."

This video was released on July 9, 2020, which was the day the R5 officially launched. This was LONG before all the internet drama about overheating. Note that they specifically said "*MAX*" recording time in 8K was 20 minutes* at room temperature (emphasis mine).

There was no deception. There was no burying it in the manual. It was, like EVERY other feature in Canon's videos that summarize main features of a new release, asterisked with real-world conditions that support the claim of the highlighted feature. I wish all the YouTube "experts" that decry Canon's marketing would stop perpetuating the myth that Canon promised one thing, then delivered another.

The irony is that so many starry-eyed "influencers" missed the informational "stars" all throughout the presentation.


_* And with Firmware 1.1.0, people are getting more than 20 minutes. So Canon not only delivered what was promised at launch, they managed to give even more within a few weeks._


----------



## janmaly (Aug 28, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Actually, the iPad Pro can playback 8k 422 as their arm processor has native support for H265. See Max's explanation and option. I will wait to upgrade my macbook pro to arm processor because of this. I will have it for a long time so I want to make sure that it can edit the footage easily when I want to in the future


Sure, I know that video. Thanks anyways! Just at least for now, H.264 option for log would be perfect. Editing big projects on iPad is not an option and creating proxy file on the road is also a bit of a headache. 

As far as I know no SW update will be albe to fix the H.256 playback. ARM will save us, some time next year


----------



## Besisika (Aug 28, 2020)

KeithBreazeal said:


> I think the 8K was a huge marketing error. ...


Not necessarily, but we will see. I will be tempted to try the cinema raw lite once delivered. Workflow already exists and the Canon software allows you to transcode to Prores or whatever you choose. I have been considering the 8K as a bell so far, but I will re-think my strategy when the day comes.


----------



## David - Sydney (Aug 28, 2020)

Famateur said:


> Please see this video from Canon USA, which was specifically about the video features of the R5:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You are completely correct but... The Canon press release from 13-March gave a different story for 5 months. I agree that Canon was upfront with the limitations in July before anyone could buy it so there was no deception. 

You asked " Find me one material where they promised “UNLIMITED 8K recording”! 8K yes, unlimited? No. "
and I provided it for you. 5 months was a long time for Canon to add an asterisk when the "starry-eyed influences" worked up all their angst to find flaws in the camera upon release. "Achieve the impossible" was a poor phrase choice.

For me, I have a R5 and love it and work within its limitations. New firmware is just icing on the cake for me both for v1.1 and the upcoming one.


----------



## Joe Ray Skrha (Aug 28, 2020)

Can someone explain to me why Canon keeps the 29.59 minute limit on all their internal recordings on the R5? My understanding of the EU is they no longer impose that tax...


----------



## derpderp (Aug 28, 2020)

SteveC said:


> Some people are just literal minded. One dear lady I know on another forum can be relied on to miss my point if it's not direct. (And to make things worse, Brits often complain Americans don't do irony very well--I have no idea if that was in play here. But i agree with the complaint, I've had too many Americans miss my irony--even though I'm an American too.)
> 
> And as he pointed out (and so did I even though I did catch the sarcasm), there are people who _really think_ the way you were pretending to think. That tends to make sarcasm less obvious, and if the sarcasm is missed, then the natural thought is, "oh another one of those assholes."
> 
> I do think you buried the sarcasm marker a little bit too deep, maybe only three or four blank lines would have worked better.



point taken, i'll use 4 blank lines next time


----------



## derpderp (Aug 28, 2020)

Joe Ray Skrha said:


> Can someone explain to me why Canon keeps the 29.59 minute limit on all their internal recordings on the R5? My understanding of the EU is they no longer impose that tax...



Well it's fairly difficult to explain, quite a conundrum really, but I guess the best way to put it would be "CCH".


----------



## landon (Aug 28, 2020)

Off topic. Smallrig has new R5/R6 cages out. Just go to their Youtube page to check out.


----------



## Freddell (Aug 28, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> Firmware update for the cool down:
> 
> BEFORE:
> 
> ...



Yes this seems to be exactly that. No actual temperature reading to determine the cool down period, just a "stupid" timer.


----------



## stevensteven (Aug 28, 2020)

With this update, what I am the most curious about is wether or not the R5 will be able to compete with the A7SIII for video (and for me). I shoot 70% video, 30% stills. 
Before this update, the advantages (for me) of the A7SIII were (in order of importance): 

-Better Dynamic Range
-Less limitations
-Better low light


After the future update, we could assume that: 

- the DR of the R5 will match the one of the A7SIII? 
-The overheating issues (for me) will actually be a non issue. Already, with v1.1, I am happy with the current possibilities. I think the camera is now much more usable, even in 8K RAW. 
-The low light will be better with the Sony, but I actually tested extensively the low light video on my R5 and I am quite blown away. I don't think I actually need that much more, and if I could choose between the extra low light of the Sony vs. the 45MP sensor for stills of the R5, the stills are a much better advantage (to me) than extra low light sensitivity. 

That being said, it looks like the R5 could become the best camera available on the market both for Video and stills shooters (only if the DR equals the R5)...? 
And if you add the soon to come RF cine line, it also is probably one of the best mount system to invest in for the long term future? 

Am I right, am I wrong ? Am I off topic ? Can I finally stop having nightmare of me switching to Sony at night ?


----------



## Alex784 (Aug 28, 2020)

I was expecting to see Animal Eye AF in the list of updates for 1DX3.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Aug 28, 2020)

derpderp said:


> haha i'm afraid this is a matter of a generation gap. "/s" is often used in other scenarios to indicate sarcasm. apologies if it has led to confusion.


Don't worry. It was clear you used sarcasm in that message. In this heated debate over overheating, people lose their sense of humour, not to mention the sense of sarcasm.


----------



## scyrene (Aug 28, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> It's really not all that funny of a joke to use some tiny symbol to indicate sarcasm that is easily missed. Discussing with people and deliberately trying to piss them off is an ego game and kinda petty. It is basically trolling for a laugh but with none of the style of Andy Kaufman. Sarcasm should be funny by being obvious.
> 
> That specific post is perhaps close to home because I think many of us are sick of people who are making serious statements like that like spoiled irrational children. It's all over the world in every topic and its lowering the quality of not just discourse but life.
> 
> So yea, sarcasm should be indicated clearly. Note: I have been guilty of this mistake myself, feeling my sarcasm is obvious when it was not.



But no matter how obvious you make it, some people won't realise.


----------



## landon (Aug 28, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> With this update, what I am the most curious about is wether or not the R5 will be able to compete with the A7SIII for video (and for me). I shoot 70% video, 30% stills.
> Before this update, the advantages (for me) of the A7SIII were (in order of importance):
> 
> -Better Dynamic Range
> ...


This new (hopefully soon) firmware will give you Clog3. I'm waiting to see the new smaller form factor of C50/C70. The combination of R5/R6 and C50/C70 will be complete for budget indie filmmakers. Their 8K cameras will be introduce next year.


----------



## reef58 (Aug 28, 2020)

Alex784 said:


> I was expecting to see Animal Eye AF in the list of updates for 1DX3.



You and me both along with autofocus in 4k60


----------



## Aregal (Aug 28, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> Truth is we don't know.
> 
> I would be surprised if Canon hasn't already tested it quickly and they know the heat envelope is lower, otherwise would that not be putting gasoline on the fire again. Unless CRL was always on the plan, I am hoping this will lower the heat for 8K Raw and the storage to boot. I'm also hoping as per above, a lot of it is in Digic as HW routines which will cost less in terms of compute and heat.



Probably. I’ve had the R5 since 7/30 and have had zero overheating or temperature warning with my use (mostly 4K23.98, 4K120, and 8K timelapses). From version 1.0.0 onwards, these updates are just perks for me now. It was already a great camera for me to begin with.
Canon has never been shy to pour gasoline on cameras, aka. “Cripple”; soft 1080p, cropped 4K, 4K at 500mb/s that everyone complained about, mjpeg, no ibis, etc.

All I know is that Canon always work when I use them at home or in the field.

Yesterday, I had the R5 when visiting ravaged areas from Hurricane Laura. It was 99F and humid. There was no power in the entire region so, no businesses to find retreat from the heat. I was running with firmware 1.0.0...still no overheating issues or warnings.


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 28, 2020)

Aregal said:


> Probably. I’ve had the R5 since 7/30 and have had zero overheating or temperature warning with my use (mostly 4K23.98, 4K120, and 8K timelapses). From version 1.0.0 onwards, these updates are just perks for me now. It was already a great camera for me to begin with.
> Canon has never been shy to pour gasoline on cameras, aka. “Cripple”; soft 1080p, cropped 4K, 4K at 500mb/s that everyone complained about, mjpeg, no ibis, etc.
> 
> All I know is that Canon always work when I use them at home or in the field.
> ...


Wow that is good. Any reason why you haven't applied 1.1 ?


----------



## Famateur (Aug 28, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> You are completely correct but... The Canon press release from 13-March gave a different story for 5 months. I agree that Canon was upfront with the limitations in July before anyone could buy it so there was no deception.



Teasers definitely make it easier for expectations to rise higher than intended. Perhaps Canon underestimated how effective it would be...



David - Sydney said:


> You asked " Find me one material where they promised “UNLIMITED 8K recording”! 8K yes, unlimited? No. "



The quote above is not from me. 

That said, I agree that the limitations weren't given attention* during those pre-launch months, and that contributed to the expectation build up that fueled so much of the angst. My estimation is that Canon wanted to make a splash by leading with what in all fairness is a mind-blowing feature -- one that even with the limitations was unheard of in this form factor and at this price. The R5 is arguably Canon's biggest launch in over a decade, and it needed to show -- especially during a pandemic.



David - Sydney said:


> "Achieve the impossible" was a poor phrase choice.



Let's keep in mind that that has been Canon's slogan for a few years now. I believe its first iteration was "See impossible," or something similar, around 2014.

Of course, everyone is entitled to their own interpretation of it. Mine is that "achieving the impossible" is the ethos that drives Canon's engineering to continually advance its technology and one they invite us to adopt as we continue to advance our creative journey. Or, at least, that's the message I think they're trying to convey -- more of a long-term aspiration than a declaration of current capability (i.e. what was once impossible might one day become possible if we diligently strive for it).



David - Sydney said:


> For me, I have a R5 and love it and work within its limitations. New firmware is just icing on the cake for me both for v1.1 and the upcoming one.



I'm thrilled that the R5 is working well for you! Makes me anxious for when mine finally arrives!!


_*From Canon, anyway; there was speculation from Matt Granger and a few others about the likelihood of severe limitation..._


----------



## Besisika (Aug 28, 2020)

scyrene said:


> But no matter how obvious you make it, some people won't realise.


Live by sarcasm and die by sarcasm.


----------



## Besisika (Aug 28, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> With this update, what I am the most curious about is wether or not the R5 will be able to compete with the A7SIII for video (and for me). I shoot 70% video, 30% stills.
> Before this update, the advantages (for me) of the A7SIII were (in order of importance):
> 
> -Better Dynamic Range
> ...


I am not sure what do you mean by "be able to compete with A7SIII".
If you shoot photo, even 5%, the A7SIII is not something to consider. 12MP photo is not a photo in my eyes. Unless you consider a cell photo as a photo. 
People are different in their needs and requirements so it is up to you. But if you ask my opinion, it is very harsh and it sounds like this: "shoot my wedding with a 12MP camera and I will sue you to court". If I feel that way, many bride's friends out there will suggest the same thing to their friend.
If your photo matters, don't think 12MP. If it doesn't, go for it. This is 2020, not 1987.
The A7SIII is a great 120fp camera. If that is very, very, important to you, do not even blink and go for it.
For everything else, the R5 is a much better camera. You will have to take a time to learn how to use it. And I mean it, take the time to see all the possible options without listening to Youtube and decide for yourself what is acceptable and what is not.


----------



## stevensteven (Aug 28, 2020)

Besisika said:


> I am not sure what do you mean by "be able to compete with A7SIII".
> If you shoot photo, even 5%, the A7SIII is not something to consider. 12MP photo is not a photo in my eyes. Unless you consider a cell photo as a photo.
> People are different in their needs and requirements so it is up to you. But if you ask my opinion, it is very harsh and it sounds like this: "shoot my wedding with a 12MP camera and I will sue you to court". If I feel that way, many bride's friends out there will suggest the same thing to their friend.
> If your photo matters, don't think 12MP. If it doesn't, go for it. This is 2020, not 1987.
> ...


Thanks for your answer but I think you missed my point. I wrote “able to to compete FOR VIDEO” and you answered was centered around photos.
I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on the video side of things though. I only need 4K24HQ, and occasionally 8K Raw.
I don’t shoot slow mo.
Also, for your perfect information, I’ve been using the R5 for one month intensely. Never had an overheating issue. Been loving it. I don’t need YouTube to tel me what to do, in theory.
I say in theory, because based on YouTube reviews, I’m wondering if the image quality FOR VIDEO of the a7siii might not be superior to the r5. hence my questions about DR with clog 3 !
And just for context, if I mentioned photos it’s because I thought that if the r5 was equal of better than the a7s3 for video, it would be a plus side to also have a great photo camera too ! But my main focus and my priority is video. When I want to take photos, usually, nothing beats my Leica M10p! 
Looking forward to hearing back from you
Ps. If you want to check out how I use my camera you can check my Instagram: stev


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 28, 2020)

Just got an update from Canon - my order placed at approximately noon on launch day will be here at the end of September.

In case anyone was in the same boat.

I think it’s likely this new firmware will be pre-installed so there’s that ‘benefit...’


----------



## landon (Aug 28, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> Thanks for your answer but I think you missed my point. I wrote “able to to compete FOR VIDEO” and you answered was centered around photos.
> I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on the video side of things though. I only need 4K24HQ, and occasionally 8K Raw.
> I don’t shoot slow mo.
> Also, for your perfect information, I’ve been using the R5 for one month intensely. Never had an overheating issue. Been loving it. I don’t need YouTube to tel me what to do, in theory.
> ...


Are you in a hurry to return your R5 and get the A7S3? Or needs to get rid of EF/RF lens soon? 
If not, then wait a bit, borrow the A7S3 from a friend when it's released and test/compare the two, then decide which one to keep. 
I'm staying for the RF mount. Hoping to get an C300iii/C500ii RF equivalent in the future. Might have to wait awhile for it, because the EF C300iii/C500ii just came out this year, and the RF C50/C70 has a smaller form.


----------



## stevensteven (Aug 28, 2020)

landon said:


> Are you in a hurry to return your R5 and get the A7S3? Or needs to get rid of EF/RF lens soon?
> If not, then wait a bit, borrow the A7S3 from a friend when it's released and test/compare the two, then decide which one to keep.
> I'm staying for the RF mount. Hoping to get an C300iii/C500ii RF equivalent in the future. Might have to wait awhile for it, because the EF C300iii/C500ii just came out this year, and the RF C50/C70 has a smaller form.



Sounds like a sound and reasonable advice, but I suffer from a disease that forces me to get all new gear of the first day it comes out, if not I fall into a depression


----------



## landon (Aug 28, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> Sounds like a sound and reasonable advice, but I suffer from a disease that forces me to get all new gear of the first day it comes out, if not I fall into a depression


Are you in lockdown? I'm in the only state in Australia that is in lockdown. Can't leave home more than 5km, and only for food, 8pm Curfew!!!
I'm bored as hell, but the AUS exchange rate is a killer, so I can't buy anything as of now, got to wait for discount.


----------



## Besisika (Aug 28, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> Thanks for your answer but I think you missed my point. I wrote “able to to compete FOR VIDEO” and you answered was centered around photos.
> I’d be curious to hear your thoughts on the video side of things though. I only need 4K24HQ, and occasionally 8K Raw.
> I don’t shoot slow mo.
> Also, for your perfect information, I’ve been using the R5 for one month intensely. Never had an overheating issue. Been loving it. I don’t need YouTube to tel me what to do, in theory.
> ...


OK, that explains a lot.
I have never used a Clog3 before so I cannot tell for sure. Like many, I am anxious to have it with the 8K cinema raw light. I have heard good thing about the C200 from my friends and they suggested me to consider that option once it is offered on the R5.
I have had overheating on mine on the 4K HQ using the version 1.0. I haven't used it long enough to see with the new version. I upgraded mine two nights ago.
I have tested the 4K120 and very happy with it. I was able to shoot 100GB before the warning. It depends, of course, on the way you use the camera.
For the sake of safety, I bought a 2T SSD with Ninja V. That is because I shoot mainly concerts and they last 2-3 hours. Even my old 1DX II cannot handle that long. It doesn't have alarm capability, but it is warm to the touch and I don't want to take a chance. 
Back to competition, I do not see a need to consider competition at 4K 30p level. Both deliver great quality. I do not own the Sony so I cannot make a direct comparison. I would consider the Sony to be superior to the R5 only, and only with 120fps. As far as 4K 30 concerned, the R5 gives you a lot more possibilities. Do you need them? It is up to you. You can have 4K standard, 4K crop (my favorite) and 4K HQ. The main difference is that the canon 4K crop is a downsampled from 5K and allows me to shoot with a 1.6 extender in camera. For concert shooter like me, that is a very big plus. The quality is right in par with the 4K HQ so I decided to scratch the HQ, unless I have to shoot in crowd and will need a full frame view. That is very rare. Most of the time, I shoot from the back of the room. I use the full frame only during breaks, interviewing fans.
Let me know of your opinion, when you find out more about the Clog 3. For me, it is a plus, and may have an impact with my workflow. I often shoot concert under colored light. Color precision becomes important (main reason I was attracted by the 8K in the first place). I haven't had a chance (due to covid) to test R5 under these conditions yet, but if cinema raw is here, I will seriously consider it, even if it gives me just 30min of shooting. 8K cinema raw light should work wonders under blue/red/green light. Let's see.


----------



## barrytakespictures (Aug 28, 2020)

I just want the same video menus in my 1dx 3 as in my EOS R5


----------



## toodamnice (Aug 28, 2020)

I just want my R5


----------



## snappy604 (Aug 28, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> It's really not all that funny of a joke to use some tiny symbol to indicate sarcasm that is easily missed. Discussing with people and deliberately trying to piss them off is an ego game and kinda petty. It is basically trolling for a laugh but with none of the style of Andy Kaufman. Sarcasm should be funny by being obvious.
> 
> That specific post is perhaps close to home because I think many of us are sick of people who are making serious statements like that like spoiled irrational children. It's all over the world in every topic and its lowering the quality of not just discourse but life.
> 
> So yea, sarcasm should be indicated clearly. Note: I have been guilty of this mistake myself, feeling my sarcasm is obvious when it was not.




Was not my post, just pointing out there was a clear mark for sarcasm (which most leave out). I found it amusing, but people get worked up over

it is a good reminder people are too worked up on this on both sides and maybe its a good idea to step back and use bit less emotion.


cornieleous said:


> It's really not all that funny of a joke to use some tiny symbol to indicate sarcasm that is easily missed. Discussing with people and deliberately trying to piss them off is an ego game and kinda petty. It is basically trolling for a laugh but with none of the style of Andy Kaufman. Sarcasm should be funny by being obvious.
> 
> That specific post is perhaps close to home because I think many of us are sick of people who are making serious statements like that like spoiled irrational children. It's all over the world in every topic and its lowering the quality of not just discourse but life.
> 
> So yea, sarcasm should be indicated clearly. Note: I have been guilty of this mistake myself, feeling my sarcasm is obvious when it was not.




again it wasn't my post, but I felt it was obviously over the top and the person did put a /s at the bottom which is better than most who post sarcasm/satire.

that it triggered so many and hit so close to home is telling. I still think the video stuff is overblown and both sides really need to just move forward, the drama only continues because people keep feeding it. Its better to acknowledge it, laugh some and move on. Now get some stock please! the R5 sounds fantastic.


----------



## snappy604 (Aug 28, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> Just got an update from Canon - my order placed at approximately noon on launch day will be here at the end of September.
> 
> In case anyone was in the same boat.
> 
> I think it’s likely this new firmware will be pre-installed so there’s that ‘benefit...’




nooo.. now I'm sad


----------



## landon (Aug 28, 2020)

toodamnice said:


> I just want my R5


Here you go - R R R R R


----------



## Besisika (Aug 28, 2020)

toodamnice said:


> I just want my R5


Believe me, you do! 
Sorry for the pain.


----------



## jayhenington (Aug 28, 2020)

addola said:


> I fear that the R5 will be getting all the good updates/upgrades while the R6 will get close to nothing.


So I just got my R6 from UPS and it has Firmware 1.1. I'm really curious to see if it has improved performance. I'm going to test it out today and see what I find.


----------



## ClickIt_AC (Aug 28, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> I believe a lot of the AF calculations are done in Digic X, so what we have with the R is about as good as it is going to get.


That IS interesting. Was hoping the DPAF was enough. Looks like I better save up... (no rush I guess, while they sort out the heat problems!)


----------



## stevensteven (Aug 28, 2020)

landon said:


> Are you in lockdown? I'm in the only state in Australia that is in lockdown. Can't leave home more than 5km, and only for food, 8pm Curfew!!!
> I'm bored as hell, but the AUS exchange rate is a killer, so I can't buy anything as of now, got to wait for discount.



I'm in Paris! Life is stil strange, but at least we're free again. Till we're not.


----------



## stevensteven (Aug 28, 2020)

Besisika said:


> OK, that explains a lot.
> I have never used a Clog3 before so I cannot tell for sure. Like many, I am anxious to have it with the 8K cinema raw light. I have heard good thing about the C200 from my friends and they suggested me to consider that option once it is offered on the R5.
> I have had overheating on mine on the 4K HQ using the version 1.0. I haven't used it long enough to see with the new version. I upgraded mine two nights ago.
> I have tested the 4K120 and very happy with it. I was able to shoot 100GB before the warning. It depends, of course, on the way you use the camera.
> ...



Fair point about the 4K24. Both will be excellent cameras, especially if CLOG3 reduces the DR gap between the two brands. 
Then I guess it's just about personal preference/experience. 
I am afraid I will like the Sony better. 

Last year I had the A7RIV and the EOS R and I preferred without a doubt the Sony for both photos and videos. This year, the R5 has the advantage of having stills, but I fear that I will like the look and feel of the Sony image better. I hope not. I want to love the R5 so much.


----------



## snappy604 (Aug 28, 2020)

seeing the positive photography reviews and canon enhancing rapidly via firmware ... plonked a deposit down... now the waiting game :-/


----------



## snappy604 (Aug 28, 2020)

oh and there is a Fro Knows on the new firmware.. seems positive if you use cooling (ie fridge).. ironically he kept running out of space on his cards... yikes.


----------



## Juangrande (Aug 28, 2020)

ClickIt_AC said:


> I don't suppose there are any rumours to update the EOS R firmware with animal AF?


Yes it’s called the R5 update and it’s out already.


----------



## tomislavmoze (Aug 28, 2020)

jayhenington said:


> So I just got my R6 from UPS and it has Firmware 1.1. I'm really curious to see if it has improved performance. I'm going to test it out today and see what I find.


Really? That is strange I got mine 7 days ago and it is on 1.0.0. And there is no firmware upgrade officially for R6 jet...


----------



## Besisika (Aug 28, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> Fair point about the 4K24. Both will be excellent cameras, especially if CLOG3 reduces the DR gap between the two brands.
> Then I guess it's just about personal preference/experience.
> I am afraid I will like the Sony better.
> 
> Last year I had the A7RIV and the EOS R and I preferred without a doubt the Sony for both photos and videos. This year, the R5 has the advantage of having stills, but I fear that I will like the look and feel of the Sony image better. I hope not. I want to love the R5 so much.


Sounds fair. As long as you know what you want, you are set.
I prefer being given options that I can adapt to my shooting style, rather than someone making the choice for me. That's why the R5 is, video-wise, a much better camera for me. Not to mention that the photography is one of the kind.


----------



## sanj (Aug 28, 2020)

tomislavmoze said:


> the problem is that your perspective does not come from the professional video point of view. 8K is not there to be used as an final 8K product but to give flexibility in editing,like reframing, or u can use one camera as basically 3 different view angles in an interview scenario which allows easier editing of the whatever the subject is speaking of. Better quality of master shots etc....
> Also there are lot of use case scenarios in photography with screen grabs especially with 8K raw video.
> The problem is that all that is used by smaller part of the R5 owners, but still there are some that will use it...I'm one of them. Will work fine as a B or a C camera at some of the larger projects I do...


You mean 3 different _magnifications. _


----------



## freejay (Aug 28, 2020)

PhotoRN86 said:


> Do you guys think there will be any chance they'd give the R5 4K or 1080p Raw Options?



Since RAW is always related to 1:1 pixel readout (otherwise it wouldn't be "raw") it would be possible in the 4K crop mode. But if you'd only use a 1080p sized section of the sensor for 1080 RAW you'd have a ridiculous crop factor...


----------



## tomislavmoze (Aug 28, 2020)

sanj said:


> You mean 3 different _magnifications. _


you are right, english is not my native language so I messed up.
Correct Film term would be just different type of shoots. (long shot, medium shot, close up). But I guess people understood what I meant.


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 29, 2020)

ClickIt_AC said:


> That IS interesting. Was hoping the DPAF was enough. Looks like I better save up... (no rush I guess, while they sort out the heat problems!)



I didnt realise also until I read about it somewhere recently.

DPAF provides all the data, but it is Digic which is doing the calculations and presumably thus the heavy lifting. 

I'm assuming therefore Digic X can do more than the Digic in the R and hence the differences.

Btw, the Animal AF works in video modes also. Not sure what other manufacturers can right now, but Philip Bloom has a petition for Sony to do it. I haven't compared whether there is a slow down in 60fps vs 24fps say, but that's an amazing capability. It's not perfect ie if the subject is partially covered by similar coloured objects (green bird, green leaves), but nevertheless pretty damn useful for me.


----------



## Rocksthaman (Aug 29, 2020)

tomislavmoze said:


> Really? That is strange I got mine 7 days ago and it is on 1.0.0. And there is no firmware upgrade officially for R6 jet...


I received one today as well . Came with 1.1.0 on it. Pleasant Suprise.

im guessing the R6 firmware is on it’s way.


----------



## analoggrotto (Aug 29, 2020)

EOSHD's response, 100% relevant to Canon EOS R5 Firmware update. 100 Per-CENT, SON!!


*Now listen to the truth.*


_*I’ve been around a while now and I am tired of some of the unethical nonsense I have had to put up from people.


Like the time when I was writing for DPReview and out of the blue the features editor was arrested.


Like the time Philip Bloom twisted my arm into covering up domestic violence allegations from not one, but two of his ex-partners, deleting posts on my forum.*_


*There’s a lot of unethical skeletons in the closet.*
from EOSHD.com


----------



## TracerHD (Aug 29, 2020)

Does the 1.1 firmware still have the problem that shooting stills reduces the record time? Is it unaffected or enchanced? By normal conditions, not in a fridge


----------



## VisionColor (Aug 29, 2020)

Canon if your reading this ..i hope , can R5 and 1Dx Mark iii get H264 please as this can save us time to transcode the footage H265 is pain to edit and yes proxys are gay


----------



## calfoto (Aug 29, 2020)

Twinix said:


> Canon has a feedback form on product improvements where you can list software and hardware suggestions. You really should do that. Let me know if you need a link.



Thanks! A link would Be great - I searched a bit on the Canon & CPS websites but didn’t see anything that looked like a “Suggestions” link


----------



## analoggrotto (Aug 30, 2020)

marathonman said:


> Why no mention of 480p at 2,372 fps? It's clear they are just trying to protect the Phantom T1340. If they don't add this capability I'm going to take them to the UK small claims court.


Have you seen BetaReid's latest GFX100 video you youtube? Its a real hoot.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 30, 2020)

analoggrotto said:


> Have you seen BetaReid's latest GFX100 video you youtube? Its a real hoot.


That was amazingly bad!


----------



## analoggrotto (Aug 30, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> That was amazingly bad!


Leave a dislike and hit subscribe for more quality content ..... 

I've watched some of his portfolio videos on the main page, I think the editing is good along with the work itself but they are very very boring, I try to watch but end up watching pewdiepie.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 30, 2020)

analoggrotto said:


> Leave a dislike and hit subscribe for more quality content .....
> 
> I've watched some of his portfolio videos on the main page, I think the editing is good along with the work itself but they are very very boring, I try to watch but end up watching pewdiepie.


No I’ve never been bored enough to watch either 

I don’t know how disappointed I’d be if I got that kind of access to that kind of event with modern gear and came away with such garbage, half of it looks like badly processed 8mm from the late ‘70’s. The colors are so integral to F1, some of the sponsor colors are trademarked and all corporations have very specific instructions to how their colors are represented in their own literature and ads, to be that off with such an integral aspect of the genre in somebody who professes to love F1 is shocking. But that aside, framing, focus, flow, following action and grading were all terrible and everything got in the way of what he was trying to illustrate, were it a student project I’d be surprised if it was even a D.


----------



## mccasi (Aug 30, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> When you update the firmware the first time using the USA site download, maybe it will change the server. Hopefully it’s not hardware-based coding like BlueRay/DVD players. That would be a tricky way to ruin most all grey market sales.


Thanks man, I’ll try the US download for the next firmware update, EU update this time didn’t change it, copyright remains CN and still goes straight to baidu and canon.cn, that site is even location locked from being accessed outside China. I fear Grey market is indeed affected


----------



## futzy (Aug 31, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Not excusing Canon marketing for their exuberance but they did say that they are "achieving the impossible" without any pesky asterisks against the 8k video in their marketing.
> Hyperbole = standard speak for marketers.
> https://www.canon-europe.com/press-...2020/03/canon-reveals-further-eos-r5-details/


So name one other mirrorless camera that makes it possible even to record a second of 8K RAW internally? Thus - they did achieve the impossible


----------



## David - Sydney (Aug 31, 2020)

futzy said:


> So name one other mirrorless camera that makes it possible even to record a second of 8K RAW internally? Thus - they did achieve the impossible


They sure did achieve it... perhaps you should remind the youtubers and commentors on DPR etc about that


----------



## VisionColor (Sep 3, 2020)

Sorry if this has been asked but any eta on this upcoming firmware ?


----------

