# Canon EOS 7D Mark II Not Coming? [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Dec 14, 2013)

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<p><strong>No EOS 7D Mark II?

</strong>We received an odd bit of information in regards to the future of the EOS 7D.</p>
<p>We were plainly told “No 7D II – a friend”.</p>
<p>This goes against what Canon itself has said and what we’ve heard for a long while. It is possible that plans have changed, as lots of products get started and never actually reach market.</p>
<p>Does Canon feel there’s no future in the APS-C segment?  Has the production costs of full frame sensors come down enough to do away with APS-C at the $1500 price point? Is the <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/986389-REG/canon_8469b002_canon_eos_70d_dslr.html/bi/2466/kbid/3296" target="_blank">EOS 70D</a> all you need as an APS-C shooter?</p>
<p>What is apparent is that both Nikon and Canon appear to have abandoned the “prosumer” DSLR segment. The D7100 and the <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/986389-REG/canon_8469b002_canon_eos_70d_dslr.html/bi/2466/kbid/3296" target="_blank">70D</a> are both very capable cameras. However, they don’t scream “pro” in feature sets or build quality.</p>
<p>I’m sure we’ll hear more soon….</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
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## RichM (Dec 14, 2013)

That would be very disappointing. I believe there is significant demand for a 7d2, and Canon would be missing a significant market segment.


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## DaveMiko (Dec 14, 2013)

I don't think this latest news will correspond to actual truth. The consumer or prosumer market will still need APS-C DSLRs and the 7D line is the flagship there. That being said, I wouldn't be surprised if they decide to get rid of that segment and focus only on the real deal, that is, full frame cameras. If the price on these excellent products comes down enough, then it might make sense to do so.
P.S. If one can afford it, then, by all means, get the mighty 1DX!!!! 8)


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## Lichtgestalt (Dec 14, 2013)

but... but... M.ST sure has the prototype already?

i call that a false rumor. if not a 7D MK2 then they just release it with a different name, but practically it will be the 7D successor.


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## MintChocs (Dec 14, 2013)

It's plausible, Canon are probably trying to steer people to full frame and protect their more expensive models. The quality produced by new crop sensors is good enough in most sensors some pro's might not feel the need to buy more expensive bodies. You might have only needed a 400mm lens on a crop but now you need a 600mm on a FF so it encourages sales of more expensive lenses.


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## photonius (Dec 14, 2013)

Hmm, a different spin on this could be "no 7D II" within the expected timeframe. The engineers may have encountered more trouble with all the new features they wanted to pack in the new dual-pixel sensor, and it may take it's time to sort it out?


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## lol (Dec 14, 2013)

It would be sad if Canon followed Nikon's missing D400, but thankfully this is rated CR1 and I wouldn't pay much attention to the noise until it is at least a CR2.

I can quite simply state, and I know many shooters like me, would not want a full frame body at the same cost as a 7D (with the tradeoff in performance that implies). They are very different cameras for different uses.

At the other end, however good it is in its own right, the newer 70D doesn't even match the 7D where it really matters. Even if it has new toys, it is isn't filling the same slot.


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## ScottyP (Dec 14, 2013)

I really don't care if they make a metal body. I don't use my camera to smash walnuts or to bludgeon Nikon users. 

But they do need to make something a little larger than Rebels or 70d"s, and with a great AF system. Seriously, how much can it cost to go ahead and give the thing 40+ AF points, with most or all being cross-type? If they no longer need to hold back to create space between 70d and 7d2, they could make 80d (or a new line) that has as many AF points as they want.


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## Zv (Dec 14, 2013)

Boooo!


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## LarryC (Dec 14, 2013)

MintChocs said:


> You might have only needed a 400mm lens on a crop but now you need a 600mm on a FF so it encourages sales of more expensive lenses.



That is simply not true. A 400mm lens on a cropped FF image is exactly the same as 400mm on a crop sensor. The only [current] benefits of a crop sensor is sensor/camera production costs, cropped image resolution, image, fps, and lens size/weight. 

It will always costs less to produce a smaller sensor, but overall costs are dropping and as more people make the jump to FF, the economies of scale will drive a more rapid decline in costs. Cropped image resolution is a valid issue, but the 1Dx and D4 prove, for most people, that image is not about mp, and this truth is underscored by the resolution of cropped D800 images. Fps is only a matter of processor and storage throughput and capacity, and that is rapidly changing too. While the current D800 may be "slow" in that regard, I would be very surprised if the next iteration did not provide for 6+ fps, and I suspect the same will be true that Canon's first or second "big" mp cameras will also solve or come close to solving the fps issue. As for weight, that only applies to lens and you will still be able to use your older crop camera lenses if you really want to pretend you have a 600mm lens by using a 400mm on a crop sensor. 

I don't know what Canon or Nikon will do in the future regarding "pro" cropped sensor camera, but I would be very surprised if they aren't looking looking at the FF "problems" the same way as am I and recognize the inherent long term economies of abandoning pro-level crop lenses and bodies.


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## 9VIII (Dec 14, 2013)

LarryC said:


> That is simply not true. A 400mm lens on a cropped FF image is exactly the same as 400mm on a crop sensor.



Close but not quite. In recent discussions extreme cropping showed benefits with the crop sensor. Maybe the difference is small enough for most people to ignore, but if you know you will be doing a lot of heavy cropping one might still choose a higher density sensor for practical reasons.
We also still have the phenomenon of the SX50HS providing better results than any other camera when cropped to the same sensor size.

No 7DII? If they're trying to protect the 1Dx, then they're going to have to drop the price on that for more people to adopt it. Alternatively I guess they could launch the 6D2 with similar specs to the 5D3, and then move the 5D4 that much closer to 1Dx performance.
Which then makes me wonder what consumer level camera would eventually get a big MP sensor.


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## thfifthcrouch (Dec 14, 2013)

Yes indeed the reach is achieved via a smaller sensor and more densely packed pixels. So the same reach can be achieved via a 40-50 megapixel camera full frame camera like the 36 megapixel Nikon. Such a camera's files would be a little unwieldy I suppose, where the crop frames of like 20 megapixels isn't. All depends on processing speeds which will more then likely be able to handle such, as advances continue. Etc etc. Guessing Mint Chocolates pretty much is aware of this sort of thing. 
Love birding and no lens in the world will ever get you that reach you need. A lot depends on getting close. Just the use of a crop gave the added benefit of not having to crop in post. Also cool lens's like the Sigma 18-35mm f/1.8 can be made that makes economic sense where it kinda provides the crop frame user a bit of a catch up to full, but not completely. Also crops can be inherently mechanically sounder due to the fact that it has a smaller shutter mechanism. Minor benefit here as good engineering even makes this rather inconsequential. 
All this frame size is all based on the history of film and sensors. There really is no holy grail only what exists is in our past and heads. 
Anyway I am really wandering here. Myself I would love the Canon 7d mark ii. But the pixel peepers are going to prevail and the end of crop is in sight.


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## skycolt (Dec 14, 2013)

If there ever will be a 7dii, I'll definitely grab one. If not, I won't buy their expensive FF anyway. This news is disappointing.


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## Don Haines (Dec 14, 2013)

9VIII said:


> LarryC said:
> 
> 
> > That is simply not true. A 400mm lens on a cropped FF image is exactly the same as 400mm on a crop sensor.
> ...



Some people argue that denser sampling is what will meet their needs (APS -C)... Some argue that bigger pixels with lower noise and higher ISO meets their needs (FF). Both sides are right and for some people the answer comes down to one of each.

We could argue the merits of denser sampling against increased noise until the cows come home, but in the end it comes down to sales. If canon thinks that there is enough of a market to make sales of a particular camera profitable then they will sell it. Judging from the pent-up demand for a 7D2 on this site, it would seem like there is.


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## takesome1 (Dec 14, 2013)

LarryC said:


> MintChocs said:
> 
> 
> > You might have only needed a 400mm lens on a crop but now you need a 600mm on a FF so it encourages sales of more expensive lenses.
> ...



No, in fact his statement is true. While it is true the lens produces the same image, the sensors do not see the same image. The crop sensor only sees a portion of the image. So while we know that you can crop an image with many FF and get about the same quality out of 7D sensor, the comparison does not stop there. 

The framing of your image is an important difference between a crop and FF sensor. It is best practice to frame your shot as it needs to be framed rather than crop. It is better to practice this rather than approach a picture saying you will crop it. Another issue with framing is your ability to acquire a target. For me personally I found that a crop sensor on a 500mm body (800mm imaginary focal length) gave just about the maximum framing that I could use for hand held fast moving birds. The smaller window of view makes it more difficult to pick up the subject. For me the 1D IV sensor is about right. 

So for me on a crop body I would not consider the 600mm, the FOV would bit to tight on a crop body and 500mm would be about right. For the 1D IV either a 500 or 600 would work. For a FF I would have to go with the 600mm.

So yes, going FF over crop sensor does drive the sales of the longer telephoto lenses.

A 7D II sensor that will produce superior or comparable IQ to a FF body would be of great interest. I doubt MintChocs logic that Canon would not release a high grade crop sensor to protect higher end lines. Instead I think Canon would jack the price of such a camera up and hope it increased sales of the 300mm and 500mm lenses


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## crasher8 (Dec 14, 2013)

CR1 = Meh

I am still looking forward to this as a 2nd body.


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## rs (Dec 14, 2013)

takesome1 said:


> LarryC said:
> 
> 
> > MintChocs said:
> ...


A couple of things:

With a 400mm FF combo, not having it cropped in-camera gives you the breathing space to not 100% follow the action in the centre of the frame, and the ability to see outside of the intended frame to help find your subject

And, what about simply using a TC with a 400 on FF?


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## hoodlum (Dec 14, 2013)

MintChocs said:


> It's plausible, Canon are probably trying to steer people to full frame and protect their more expensive models. The quality produced by new crop sensors is good enough in most sensors some pro's might not feel the need to buy more expensive bodies. You might have only needed a 400mm lens on a crop but now you need a 600mm on a FF so it encourages sales of more expensive lenses.



That is why I will be getting the new Tamron 150-600mm. Canon may want us to buy 600mm but the jump in price is too great to justify any of their lenses.


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## thfifthcrouch (Dec 14, 2013)

TCs are cool but they do represent a loss in f/stops, slightly degraded images and the need for higher ISOs. So I kinda think that it becomes a wash vs a crop frame. But tiz a good point about tracking a bird with a bigger view finder.


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## takesome1 (Dec 14, 2013)

rs said:


> takesome1 said:
> 
> 
> > LarryC said:
> ...



It would give you more breathing room. With the current version of the 7D there are many reasons that a 1D IV or a 1D X would be superior. Most of which have nothing to do with framing and cropping. The AF system alone makes the 1D IV a far superior camera. The low light abilities and the AF system of the 1D X make even more superior.

But there is a question, what if a 7D II sensor closes this gap?

As far as a TC, it slows down AF system and breaks down IQ. But if there is an argument that a crop sensor would cannibalize 600mm sales why would Canon release a TC that might do the same. It isn't going to happen.


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## Don Haines (Dec 14, 2013)

hoodlum said:


> MintChocs said:
> 
> 
> > It's plausible, Canon are probably trying to steer people to full frame and protect their more expensive models. The quality produced by new crop sensors is good enough in most sensors some pro's might not feel the need to buy more expensive bodies. You might have only needed a 400mm lens on a crop but now you need a 600mm on a FF so it encourages sales of more expensive lenses.
> ...



There is a huge jump in price when you go from a 400F5.6 to the big whites.... If you can afford to make that jump, then the cost of going from APSC to FF is insignificant to you. Conversely, the vast majority of people will never plop down $10,000 on a lens. It does not matter to them what the price difference is between FF or APSC..... even if APSC and FF were the same price, they are still not going to spend $10,000 on a lens. Canon knows this....


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## Don Haines (Dec 14, 2013)

takesome1 said:


> rs said:
> 
> 
> > takesome1 said:
> ...


The fanatic birders are already using teleconverters on their 600's, so the logic is flawed... If only they would put the 1200F5.6 back into production


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## lopicma (Dec 14, 2013)

It seems like a high end APS-C camera would have a higher profit margin than a mid-low level one. Similar to the automobile industry, the difference between a Cadillac and a Chevy is negligible when it comes to sourcing parts, but the profit on a Cadillac is higher, because your paying for "a Cadillac".

Other than a magnesium body, what are the REAL differences between a 70D and a 7D? The menu system for sure, but that's easy to change... The DIGIC processor...?

My point is, they have more in common than in difference.


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## thfifthcrouch (Dec 14, 2013)

Probably has more to do with the Canon 6d reaching the 1500.00 dollar price mark (and sometimes lower). If the 7d mark ii comes in over that it, it becomes maybe a niche commodity that doesn't sell all that well. I think the market looks at full frame as the complete item. The biggest reason for crop was affordability and if it loses that it could be phased out.


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## Ellen Schmidtee (Dec 14, 2013)

My 2c is that Canon might have too many DSLR lines to differentiate, and might want to cancel one of them. I mean, how many ways can Canon slice features like AF, DPAF, and SD vs. CF cards?

Looking at it another way, Canon is about to finish upgrading all it's super teles, after which it probably plans not to upgrade again for 20 more years. Canon will probably need to push out a 24MP APS-C sensor soon. I doubt the super teles can resolve a lot more than 24MP on APS-C. So, if Canon released a 7DmkII with a 24MP sensor, the same issue would rise with the lower lines - can't raise resolution, so what differentiates the lower lines?

So my guess Canon is going to eliminate a line of cameras, maybe merging the xxD & 7D lines.


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## jrista (Dec 14, 2013)

Don Haines said:


> 9VIII said:
> 
> 
> > LarryC said:
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+1 Couldn't agree more, on all points!

I can't imagine Canon not releasing a 7D II, especially after they clearly said they will be doing something special with it. There is definitely pent up demand. People don't talk much while they are all "pent up", so I figure this is just rumor trolling going on...someone wanting to get a rise. People will talk and rave and hate once the thing is announced. 

Then, maybe then, after the 7D II release, I could possibly see Canon dropping the line, if they truly think the pro future is purely in FF. That said...they would have to respond with something in the FF line that had a decent frame rate AND high pixel density, because that is ultimately what the 7D is about...pixel density. It doesn't really matter what the frame size is, so long as you can resolve more detail at a high frame rate.


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## Albi86 (Dec 14, 2013)

thfifthcrouch said:


> Probably has more to do with the Canon 6d reaching the 1500.00 dollar price mark (and sometimes lower). If the 7d mark ii comes in over that it, it becomes maybe a niche commodity that doesn't sell all that well. I think the market looks at full frame as the complete item. The biggest reason for crop was affordability and if it loses that it could be phased out.



+1

Same reason why we haven't seen a D400 either, as of yet - not even in rumours.

I believe that when the 70D and the D7100 were designed, they left some room in the specs for more pro models. Later on they might have realized that it's not viable marketing-wise to have such cameras at such an eventually high price point, with FF getting cheaper and cheaper.

That said, the good part is that both the 70D and the D7100 are amazing cameras.


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## Marsu42 (Dec 14, 2013)

Lichtgestalt said:


> but... but... M.ST sure has the prototype already?



No doubt Canon has/had plans for a 7d2, but maybe they think that the price point for an aps-c with a 1dx-type af system won't find enough buyers, esp. if the sensor again isn't a big step up from the 70d.

They'll probably wait some more until they have a real new sensor design and have the 1dx2 & 5d4 on the market - the Nikon d7100 is a very competent camera with a very good af system, and that's what Canon has to beat by a good margin to justify a much higher price.


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## rs (Dec 14, 2013)

thfifthcrouch said:


> TCs are cool but they do represent a loss in f/stops, slightly degraded images and the need for higher ISOs. So I kinda think that it becomes a wash vs a crop frame. But tiz a good point about tracking a bird with a bigger view finder.


If the lens is good enough (eg the 300 II or the 600 II), they appear to take TC's better than the current (well, 60D) generation of crop sensors to get tighter framing than the lens offers natively:

http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/ISO-12233-Sample-Crops.aspx?Lens=748&Camera=736&Sample=0&FLI=0&API=0&LensComp=748&CameraComp=453&SampleComp=0&FLIComp=1&APIComp=0

The loss of an f-stop is something that levels some of the gap between the two, but with the latest generation of Canon SLR's, there's more than a stop difference between FF and crop. 

However in crop cameras defense, AF takes a hit with a TC, so you'd need better AF on FF to bridge that gap. Also, at the price point, its much easier to make a smaller mirror flap faster and a smaller shutter have a higher flash sync speed.


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## crasher8 (Dec 14, 2013)

All of this discussion has got me thinking of the possibility to add a TC to a body as opposed to a lens. An integrated TC could offer better IQ than one lens dependent. Nikon does it through the sensor but why not through a mount and with optics? Yes I know it's partly a ricockulous idea and the weight alone and bulk as well would prohibitive...just wondering after TC's and crop vs FF use of certain lenses was mentioned above.


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## ME (Dec 14, 2013)

They have decided to name it the 8D.


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## unfocused (Dec 14, 2013)

jrista said:


> ... I can't imagine Canon not releasing a 7D II, especially after they clearly said they will be doing something special with it. There is definitely pent up demand. People don't talk much while they are all "pent up", so I figure this is just rumor trolling going on...someone wanting to get a rise. People will talk and rave and hate once the thing is announced...



Exactly. Some troll decides to stir things up and watch everyone scurry. Gives CR Guy some badly needed content, even if it's silly.

My take is that Canon feels no need to rush the 7DII since Nikon had been dragging their feet. While the 7D is getting a little long in the tooth, the D300S looks like a dinosaur in comparison. 7D is still very competitive against the 70D (in fact it's still a better model for stills shooters) and despite all the wailing on forums, the newer Nikon and Sony sensors aren't that much better. 

I actually think Canon may be feeling a little pressure because of all that pent-up demand. People are expecting something revolutionary. They could have gotten away with an incremental upgrade a year ago, but the longer they wait, the higher the expectations become. I'm not expecting some super camera with full frame image quality at 1 million ISO, but I think at this point they might not feel they can just slap the 70D sensor in it, add the 5DIII autofocus and call it good.


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## Don Haines (Dec 14, 2013)

lopicma said:


> It seems like a high end APS-C camera would have a higher profit margin than a mid-low level one. Similar to the automobile industry, the difference between a Cadillac and a Chevy is negligible when it comes to sourcing parts, but the profit on a Cadillac is higher, because your paying for "a Cadillac".
> 
> Other than a magnesium body, what are the REAL differences between a 70D and a 7D? The menu system for sure, but that's easy to change... The DIGIC processor...?
> 
> My point is, they have more in common than in difference.


If you look at the 60D / 7D, the two big differences were the auto focus system and the frame rate. They both more/less used the same sensor and had the same image quality. Both sold quite well. The AF system of the 7D is still superior to that of the 70D, except in live view....

A 7D2, with dual digic5+ (or better) could run a far better version of live view focusing and should have sufficient computing power to do things like face-tracking and to keep the focus on that face.... or bird... or whatever... A 7D2 with 63 point normal AF would beat the pants off of the 70D for normal AF. The rumoured 10 or 12 frames per second would appeal to action shooters.

And just like the 60D 7D pair, odds are that both the 7D2 and 70D would sell well.


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## thfifthcrouch (Dec 14, 2013)

rs said:


> thfifthcrouch said:
> 
> 
> > TCs are cool but they do represent a loss in f/stops, slightly degraded images and the need for higher ISOs. So I kinda think that it becomes a wash vs a crop frame. But tiz a good point about tracking a bird with a bigger view finder.
> ...



Well when I said wash, I was thinking the full frame has a rather slight but really inconsequential advantage. With the auto focus, shutter mechanism and flash sync speed thrown in, it is a wash.  Anyway there is no free lunch when it comes to reach and really in the long run doesn't really matter if you use crop or full. I did look at the sample from The Digital Picture and in fairness to the 60d the default sharpener is set low. He has noticed that in his reviews of some of the crop frames. Probably an effort to make noise appear lower then it actually is. If you take that into consideration, there really not that far apart. Personally if I can get the reach without the hassle of a tc I'll take it!


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## jrista (Dec 14, 2013)

unfocused said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > ... I can't imagine Canon not releasing a 7D II, especially after they clearly said they will be doing something special with it. There is definitely pent up demand. People don't talk much while they are all "pent up", so I figure this is just rumor trolling going on...someone wanting to get a rise. People will talk and rave and hate once the thing is announced...
> ...



Exactly! I am honestly glad Canon is taking a bit more time on it. I'd rather have something truly worthy of an upgrade, rather than an incremental update that might just as well be done with firmware and maybe a send-it-in minor hardware update.


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## Rowbear (Dec 14, 2013)

thfifthcrouch said:


> Probably has more to do with the Canon 6d reaching the 1500.00 dollar price mark (and sometimes lower). If the 7d mark ii comes in over that it, it becomes maybe a niche commodity that doesn't sell all that well. I think the market looks at full frame as the complete item. The biggest reason for crop was affordability and if it loses that it could be phased out.



My taughts exactly. I beleive that both Nikon (D400) and Canon (7DMk ii) are realising that these models wouldn't sell as much anymore as they could have 3/4 years ago.


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## jrista (Dec 14, 2013)

Rowbear said:


> thfifthcrouch said:
> 
> 
> > Probably has more to do with the Canon 6d reaching the 1500.00 dollar price mark (and sometimes lower). If the 7d mark ii comes in over that it, it becomes maybe a niche commodity that doesn't sell all that well. I think the market looks at full frame as the complete item. The biggest reason for crop was affordability and if it loses that it could be phased out.
> ...



Nah. The 6D is absolutely NO alternative for the 7D. The frame size has nothing to do with the purpose of the 7D, so the price point of the 6D has no bearing on whether we will see a 7D II or not. Canon has also shown little interest in directly competing model for model with their competitors...the 7D has long held a fairly unique position in the DSLR world, and not even the D300S was ever really comparable. There is a huge amount of pent up anticipation for the 7D II, and I honestly can't imagine Canon ignoring that. 

The true full-frame counterpart of the 7D is the 1D X, not the 6D...so trying to draw parallels between the two is almost laughable.


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## KyleSTL (Dec 14, 2013)

LarryC said:


> MintChocs said:
> 
> 
> > You might have only needed a 400mm lens on a crop but now you need a 600mm on a FF so it encourages sales of more expensive lenses.
> ...


A crop camera has a higher magnification VF (although it is overall smaller) means that subjects are easier to focus on and compose accurately even if they have the same pixel density.


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## Chuck Alaimo (Dec 14, 2013)

jrista said:


> Rowbear said:
> 
> 
> > thfifthcrouch said:
> ...



Gotta agree here, with the one exception that the 5d3 would be meshed in the middle there (The true full-frame counterpart of the 7D is the 1D X, and ato a lesser extent the 5d3 - not the 6D)

this one is difficult for me because I really have no use for such a camera. I owned and rocked the 7d for 2 years before upgrading to full frame - and the work I'm doing really doesn't scream for more range or fps - which is the major attraction of the 7d line...

the odd thing though from a marketing perspective is who is the end buyer of a 7d? I see all this talk here about it primarily from bird shooter who have these giant expensive lenses. Is there really that much $$$ to be made with bird photography, or are we talking about a consumer segment with lots of disposable income ----if both canon and nikon have determined the target group to be the latter, then yeah I can see them phasing that out - If your spending $4000 + on long lenses for a hobby, then well, you can afford a 1dx. 

The missing piece to this is the other side of the market. I look at myself and the reasons I bought the 7d as opposed to a 5d2 - I knew the IQ was better on the 5d2, but the price was pretty high in comparison (when i was looking the 7d with lens was at $1800, and the 5d2 was at $2700 body only). I was on a very tight budget and knew that the only lens I had prior to the purchase was EF-S - so to really jump to the 5d2 it meant shelling out closer to $3400 (more with taxes). 

BUT --- Canon has found a way around that now --- wow if i had a potential 6d as an option back then, yeah, would have been all over it.

So what is the target market for a 7d2? If canon determines its hobbyists with deep pockets then yeah, kill that line. what is the 7d line best for --- sports, action, birding --- if you don't need the advanced servo tracking, if you shoot landscapes and portraits - then the only reason to go with a 7d2 as opposed to a FF option is price - and the 6d is quite a bargain if your starting with photography and looking for that bump (
especially if the 7d2 is going to be closer to 2K).

iIf Canon is in fact reconsidering the 7d2 - then it's all about the target market for such a camera --- well that and competition and as many have pointed out --- it seems like nikon is making the same decision - why bother with a pro crop for sports and bird shooters when the bulk of that market segment has more disposable income than most working pros do....


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## Robert Welch (Dec 14, 2013)

This rumor sounds very credible to me. Just looking at the current state of the DSLR market, it's taken a severe tumble in just the last year, and there isn't much reason to think there would be a major change in that direction.

I think Canon is simply seeing the writing on the wall, there is no more market for a $2k APS-c camera, no matter how good it is. At least not enough of one to justify tooling up to make such a camera. The 'pent up demand' for one probably went away when they came out with the 5DmkIII and 6D cameras. The pros and serious amatures probably have largely gone that direction. How much better can they make the 7DmkII over the 7D? Or better than the 70D? Would they be able to see enough profit after making the investment to manufacture such a camera?

Given the decline in sales for all the camera companies, they have to tighten up on new camera releases. They can only afford to make cameras they are certain will sell very well. Also, given the exchange rates and need to keep the pricing on new cameras as high as possible, a high-end APS-c camera would simply be to costly for an adequate volume of sales. I'm convinced these are the metrics Canon (and Nikon) have determined, and the only cameras they can sell much above the $1,200 range are going to be full frame models. That means, no 7DmkII.


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## sanj (Dec 14, 2013)

This thread reeks of trolling by CR.


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## YuengLinger (Dec 14, 2013)

Maybe Canon is just trying to goose sales of the remaining stock of 7D?


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Dec 14, 2013)

Bizarre as this is one camera that had been straight out mentioned to the press from the highest levels of Canon themselves.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Dec 14, 2013)

MintChocs said:


> It's plausible, Canon are probably trying to steer people to full frame and protect their more expensive models. The quality produced by new crop sensors is good enough in most sensors some pro's might not feel the need to buy more expensive bodies. You might have only needed a 400mm lens on a crop but now you need a 600mm on a FF so it encourages sales of more expensive lenses.



Hah good luck with getting everyone to jump to the $20,000 lenses. Plus what about all those serious birders who already have those and still like the extra reach?

I mean if they manage a 39MP FF at 8fps at the 5 series range then I guess it wouldn't be such an odd move, and maybe that is what they need to do anyway. But that is sure not like the old Canon of late so it seems doubtful.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Dec 14, 2013)

LarryC said:


> MintChocs said:
> 
> 
> > You might have only needed a 400mm lens on a crop but now you need a 600mm on a FF so it encourages sales of more expensive lenses.
> ...



Umm yeah but who cares a whit whether it projects the same image, that's utterly meaningless to the reach limited photographer. The part I bolded is kinda THE point though no? When you are talking long lengths and reach limited who cares a white about FOV and all that nonsense, all you care about it pixels per duck and the current aps-c generation has so far always had higher photosite density so yeah you would need a longer lens to make up for it (and if you were already there then you are stuck).



> Cropped image resolution is a valid issue, but the 1Dx and D4 prove, for most people, that image is not about mp,



But for THIS market it was all about the photosite density.




> While the current D800 may be "slow" in that regard, I would be very surprised if the next iteration did not provide for 6+ fps, and I suspect the same will be true that Canon's first or second "big" mp cameras will also solve or come close to solving the fps issue.



Yeah as I said they could at least get to 39MP on FF and at 8fps and at a 5 series price and body size then sure. I haven't seen Canon wanting to give that much to the non 1 series ranges though so it seems doubtful. It would be quite an exciting move if they did though! If it just arrives in an $8000 brick that would still leave many of the 7D series crowd out in the cold for another year or two or three. But who knows maybe they want to really jump back and be kings and again and will pop out a 5D or 2D at 7-8fps, 39MP, high low ISO DR, 4k compressed video, 2k RAW or 12-14bit lightly compressed (and without smearing like 5D3 without ML) and the same low moire/aliasing of the 5D3. That would be a heck of a beast.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Dec 14, 2013)

thfifthcrouch said:


> Yes indeed the reach is achieved via a smaller sensor and more densely packed pixels. So the same reach can be achieved via a 40-50 megapixel camera full frame camera like the 36 megapixel Nikon. Such a camera's files would be a little unwieldy I suppose, where the crop frames of like 20 megapixels isn't.



If they were smart they could just offer a cropped mode file like Nikon does instead of only offering sRAW/mRAW which are compromised and lose all reach as well. Maybe it could drive 8fps aps-c crop from a 39MP sensor and then drop back to 6fps for FF. 

Actually this really doesn't sound all that far fetched, if the 5D4 comes late 2014, think how many years since the D800 which did 4fps at 36MP so 6fps at 39MP and 8fps cropped such be beyond a breeze, anything less and the new body might quickly be surpassed. They may even manage it 8fps FF by then.

So yeah perhaps there isn't so much of a need for the 7D2 then. I guess they could bump that a bit higher still so you'd lose a little reach but still maybe not worth it. I'd rather have it all in the one 5D4 than having to pair bodies.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Dec 14, 2013)

Actually, thinking about it more, if it means what it could mean for a 5D4 then I'm exactly super hoping this CR1 is a CR3.


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## takesome1 (Dec 14, 2013)

Don Haines said:


> takesome1 said:
> 
> 
> > rs said:
> ...



Tracking small fast moving BIF's with a 2x TC on a 600mm using a 7D would require more skill than I possess.
Maybe I should practice more.


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## Lichtgestalt (Dec 14, 2013)

No 7D II – a troll.


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## vscd (Dec 14, 2013)

As the 70D goes up into the more professional line (with sealings like a EOS1n, for example) the 7DM2 could really get missed. Maybe the 7DM2 had an older sensor with no DualPixel-AF and they underrated the success of the 70D-Sensor. 

Afterall there were Rumours for Canon to get into Medium Format Sensors anythime soon, so maybe the Fullframe is the new Crop


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## Lichtgestalt (Dec 14, 2013)

vscd said:


> As the 70D goes up into the more professional line (with sealings like a EOS1n, for example) the 7DM2 could really get missed. Maybe the 7DM2 had an older sensor with no DualPixel-AF and they underrated the success of the 70D-Sensor.
> 
> Afterall there were Rumours for Canon to get into Medium Format Sensors anythime soon, so maybe the Fullframe is the new Crop



yeah im already loving the canon MF lens lineup....


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 14, 2013)

We are going to have a D400 and a 7D MK II, but only if the market for DSLR's firms up. Right now, its in free fall and spending millions to put out a major new camera does not make economic sense. Sales of the 70D are slower than expected, buyers are going for lower priced cameras if at all. This has really hurt the grossly over priced mirrorless market, but it will also recover.
The question is When.

I happened to buy a used D300s for $575 recently, it has a lot of great pro features, but not a match for the 7D. It certainly looks like that market segment has been put on a back burner.


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## Lichtgestalt (Dec 14, 2013)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> We are going to have a D400 and a 7D MK II, but only if the market for DSLR's firms up. Right now, its in free fall and spending millions to put out a major new camera does not make economic sense.















cipa numbers.




> Here at Futuresource we expect the interchangeable lens segment to grow 5% in 2013, to reach close to 21 million units shipped.



doesn´t look like "free fall" to me.



> Sales of the 70D are slower than expected,



source?


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## candc (Dec 14, 2013)

high ranking canon execs have said there will be a 7dii in interviews. i would put more stock in that than a cr1 rumor. the 7d is a booming success and still sells well now after how long? the "7dii" name itself is enough to sell cameras and i am sure canon knows this. they can sell it for $1000 more than the 70d and i am sure it will not cost them that much more to produce. 

one thing canon has a reputation for doing is not making a replacement for a product that continues to sell as with the 100-400. i can't blame them for that. the 7d is the same


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## vscd (Dec 14, 2013)

>yeah im already loving the canon MF lens lineup....

I guess you liked the EOS-M lineup, too. Didn't you?

It's no problem to kick the market with a Canon EOS-1DxS and a startingline of 75mm 2.8, 40mm f4 and a 150mm 3.5. The Lenses were calculated decades ago.


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## Lichtgestalt (Dec 14, 2013)

vscd said:


> >yeah im already loving the canon MF lens lineup....
> 
> I guess you liked the EOS-M lineup, too. Didn't you?
> 
> It's no problem to kick the market with a Canon EOS-1DxS and a startingline of 75mm 2.8, 40mm f4 and a 150mm 3.5. The Lenses were calculated decades ago.



you are my hero... but i already have a phase one. 

and it is a probelm to enter the market when companys who are in the MF biz already struggle.


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## Richard8971 (Dec 14, 2013)

I wouldn't get all worked up. If Canon makes a 7D2 then they make a 7D2, if they don't then oh well.

I am perfectly happy with my 7D. It's a workhorse and built like a tank. I love the images and since I am not a "pixel peeper" and blow my images up to ungodly sizes on my computer screen, high ISO shooting is no problem either. High ISO images from the 7D look fantastic, even in print sizes up to 11 x 14. 

Even if my 7D breaks (or gets ripped off), there are still plenty of them out there for sale at a fantastic price. Less than a grand for a refurb with a 1 year warranty from Canon? Can't top that!

Even if Canon does make a 7D2, I won't be quick to replace my current 7. It's perfect for what I use it for.

D


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## jrista (Dec 14, 2013)

Lichtgestalt said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > We are going to have a D400 and a 7D MK II, but only if the market for DSLR's firms up. Right now, its in free fall and spending millions to put out a major new camera does not make economic sense.
> ...



Thank you! Good to have some good charts to back up the simple fact that the DSLR market is nothing stable right now. Freefall, hah!


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## pwp (Dec 15, 2013)

MintChocs said:


> It's plausible, Canon are probably trying to steer people to full frame and protect their more expensive models. The quality produced by new crop sensors is good enough in most sensors some pro's might not feel the need to buy more expensive bodies. You might have only needed a 400mm lens on a crop but now you need a 600mm on a FF so it encourages sales of more expensive lenses.


Quite right. My 300 f/2.8is is great for my purposes on the x1.3 crop APS-H 1D4 but if it was an all-FF world, I'd find myself forced into a 400 f/2.8isII purchase. If there is no 7D2, I may just stock up on good 1D4 bodies.

-pw


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## dgatwood (Dec 15, 2013)

pwp said:


> MintChocs said:
> 
> 
> > It's plausible, Canon are probably trying to steer people to full frame and protect their more expensive models. The quality produced by new crop sensors is good enough in most sensors some pro's might not feel the need to buy more expensive bodies. You might have only needed a 400mm lens on a crop but now you need a 600mm on a FF so it encourages sales of more expensive lenses.
> ...



Assuming Canon eventually gets on the high-MP bandwagon (defined as the same pixel density as a crop, but with a larger sensor), I feel like that would make high-end crop bodies irrelevant—particularly if it had a slide-up mask to crop the OVF at 1.6:1 so that you could frame things as though it were a crop body (but with the advantage of a big safety margin).

About the only remaining reason to use a crop body at that point would be if you needed to use EF-S lenses, and given that those are mostly at the low end, it could well be that most 7D owners would see that as no great loss (except, perhaps, for the venerable 10-22).


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## Don Haines (Dec 15, 2013)

You realize that this rumour pops up right after "he who must not be named" is kicked off of the forum... again.... at least the third time.... 

The whole thing stinks of M. It is probably a weak attempt at revenge.... make me feel sad for such a sorry pathetic individual....


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## jrista (Dec 15, 2013)

Don Haines said:


> You realize that this rumour pops up right after "he who must not be named" is kicked off of the forum... again.... at least the third time....
> 
> The whole thing stinks of M. It is probably a weak attempt at revenge.... make me feel sad for such a sorry pathetic individual....



Don't worry. I used to have a brain tumor that decided to reorganize itself into a specialized radar for "He who must not be named." I now have specifically designed wetware that can sniff out M to within microsecond precision of his inevitable BS landing on the forum. ;P ;D


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## Don Haines (Dec 15, 2013)

> Sales of the 70D are slower than expected,



Yes.... if you look at the Amazon Sales ratings....

The 70D with a lens is only number 4 DSLR in sales
The 70D bare body is only #7
The T31 in various packages are #1 and #2 and #19
The 60D in various packages are #9, #10 and #39
The T5i is #18, #22, #23, 
The 7D is #38

Obviously APSC is DEAD! and FF will win the sales competition...
< HUGE SARCASM TAG>

The 6D is #11 an #16
The 5D3 is #14 and #21
The 1DX does not show up in the top 100....

It makes perfect sense that Canon will drop a top selling camera to protect one that does not it into the top 100... NOT!!!


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## Don Haines (Dec 15, 2013)

jrista said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > You realize that this rumour pops up right after "he who must not be named" is kicked off of the forum... again.... at least the third time....
> ...



And just like in Harry Potter, when "He who must not be named" shows up, trouble starts...


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## jrista (Dec 15, 2013)

Don Haines said:


> jrista said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



Indeed. (Although, I think I caught onto him pretty quick this last time...I was suspicious of the first new name, Otto...then when the second name showed up using terminology ONLY M has used, I knew it was time to bring the hammer down. I really, really, REEEHEEEHEEEAALLLY don't like that guy......... ???)


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## dgatwood (Dec 15, 2013)

Don Haines said:


> The 6D is #11 an #16



That probably reflects the fact that B&H and Adorama tend to sell the higher-end cameras in packages for the same price as Amazon, but with lots of extras, which would skew the low-end purchases towards Amazon and the high-end purchases towards other companies.

If you look at Flickr stats, there are 10 times as many photos taken with the 6D as with the 70D, with almost 5 times as many average daily users. Even adjusting for the 6D having been on the market twice as long, that suggests that the 70D probably isn't doing as well as one would hope.


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## kjay27 (Dec 15, 2013)

On Feb 1, 2013, Canon CEO Masaya Maeda said that the future of APS-C at the semi-pro level is in 
doubt. "That's something we're considering at the moment. From our semi-pro users there's still 
demand for APS-C but in the future, I think we will see an increase in the number of full-frame 
models." Could it be that they may be starting to implement his strategy? 
http://www.dpreview.com/articles/0336328811/cp-2013-interview-with-canons-masaya-maeda


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## jrista (Dec 15, 2013)

kjay27 said:


> On Feb 1, 2013, Canon CEO Masaya Maeda said that the future of APS-C at the semi-pro level is in
> doubt. "That's something we're considering at the moment. From our semi-pro users there's still
> demand for APS-C but in the future, I think we will see an increase in the number of full-frame
> models." Could it be that they may be starting to implement his strategy?
> http://www.dpreview.com/articles/0336328811/cp-2013-interview-with-canons-masaya-maeda



Maeda was only saying there that he thinks there will be an increase in demand for FF parts, not that they would eliminate APS-C parts. He also clearly stated that there WAS still demand for APS-C parts from semi-pro users, a statement that was logically decoupled from the idea that there would be an increase in the number of full frame camera models. In other words...there is no reason we couldn't see an 8D and a 9D, both of which were full frame, offering some unique subset of features distinct from the 7D (APS-C line) and 6D (cheap entry level FF line.)


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## kjay27 (Dec 15, 2013)

I guess it depends on how you read the article. I probably took the following part of the interview too literally, and possibly out of context: "Canon CEO Masaya Maeda said that the future of APS-C at the semi-pro level is in doubt." --And, of course, it could have been a misquote as well.


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## ScottyP (Dec 15, 2013)

I don't understand this tip. _"No 7d coming - a friend."_ Does the cryptic "a friend" imply this was an anonymous tip? If so, why is it credible enough to print? But if it wasn't anonymous, why was it signed with "A friend"? ???

Perhaps printing this rumor may flush out a solid tip from some other sources who were not saying anything before, but who want to clarify or repudiate this tip.


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## unfocused (Dec 15, 2013)

kjay27 said:


> I guess it depends on how you read the article. I probably took the following part of the interview too literally, and possibly out of context: "Canon CEO Masaya Maeda said that the future of APS-C at the semi-pro level is in doubt." --And, of course, it could have been a misquote as well.



You're reading a paraphrase from the interviewer. It's not a direct quote from Masaya Maeda. Always take a reporter's paraphrasing with a large grain of salt, they interpret based on their own biases and what they want to hear.


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## jrista (Dec 15, 2013)

kjay27 said:


> I guess it depends on how you read the article. I probably took the following part of the interview too literally, and possibly out of context: "Canon CEO Masaya Maeda said that the future of APS-C at the semi-pro level is in doubt." --And, of course, it could have been a misquote as well.



I don't believe that was a Maeda quote. The only thing Maeda said was, well, two things: 

1) We still see demand for a semi-pro APS-C
2) We think we will see increased demand for semi-pro FF

Those two statements are both true, and neither is mutually exclusive with the other. In other words, we will continue to see BOTH at the semi-pro level from Canon. The 7D and 6D lines fit in perfectly with #1 and #2.


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## sanj (Dec 15, 2013)

Don Haines said:


> You realize that this rumour pops up right after "he who must not be named" is kicked off of the forum... again.... at least the third time....
> 
> The whole thing stinks of M. It is probably a weak attempt at revenge.... make me feel sad for such a sorry pathetic individual....



What am I missing? I want to know. Pls pls. A little gossip this Sunday.


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## sanj (Dec 15, 2013)

LarryC said:


> MintChocs said:
> 
> 
> > You might have only needed a 400mm lens on a crop but now you need a 600mm on a FF so it encourages sales of more expensive lenses.
> ...



But the end picture is NOT.


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## CarlTN (Dec 15, 2013)

This whole rumor smacks of baiting. They want to see how many people are upset by the prospect of not getting a 7D2...I'm not upset, personally. But I also think Canon need to consider some sort of crop feature for both pro and semi-pro sports bodies. Because just like a few years ago, the megapixel count keeps climbing, and so does the frame-per-second. Processing power and memory storage are not cheap and consume a lot of battery life...and large MP images consume a lot of computer drive space and processing time. A sports shooter, or low light wildlife shooter, does not usually need 40+ MP on a full frame camera at 10, 12, 14, or 16 frames per second. But they could use a similar featured sensor that could suddenly be switched to 1.2x. 1.3, 1.4. 1.5. 1.6...or 2x crop mode, and so on...for those really fast action sequences. Nikon did it, and they did it first (made a full frame pro sensor switchable to a crop mode)...eventually Canon will do it better!


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## greger (Dec 15, 2013)

Back in February of this year I read an interview that was going around and came to the conclusion that as there was to be a 70D from Canon eventually but no 7Dll. The future of the semi pro camera would be FF. I believe that is still so.

IT might cost more than $1.500.00 but it will still be FF. I don't think Canon would want to sell a camera that would kill 5D mark lll sales.


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## CarlTN (Dec 15, 2013)

greger said:


> Back in February of this year I read an interview that was going around and came to the conclusion that as there was to be a 70D from Canon eventually but no 7Dll. The future of the semi pro camera would be FF. I believe that is still so.
> 
> IT might cost more than $1.500.00 but it will still be FF. I don't think Canon would want to sell a camera that would kill 5D mark lll sales.



Or they wouldn't want to sell a camera that the 5D3 sales would kill?


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## Rienzphotoz (Dec 15, 2013)

sanj said:


> LarryC said:
> 
> 
> > MintChocs said:
> ...


+1 ... also, the cropped image from a FF is only 8 MP, whereas the cropped sensor gives you 18mp of detail.


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## candc (Dec 15, 2013)

i like the idea of a big mp ff camera with a crop mode just like the nikon d800. problem is with an optical viewfinder you see a red crop square, but your view in the finder doesn't change. i think you need an electronic viewfinder for that to be a really useful feature so that what you see is what you get. now we are talking about mirrorless not dslr's


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## crasher8 (Dec 15, 2013)

IMO the 7D was a landmark STILLS body. With Canon's video 'obsession' it would be a shame that it's next iteration would be a video driven body.


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## 100 (Dec 15, 2013)

If Nikon comes up with a successor to the D300(s) a 7D MkII is almost a must. If Nikon doesn’t come up with a successor, a 7D MkII could give Canon even more market share. On the other hand, the next generation APS-C might lose the mirror and the ovf if they figured out a way to get the AF on par with this generations AF. If so, a new name seems logical.


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## jrista (Dec 15, 2013)

greger said:


> Back in February of this year I read an interview that was going around and came to the conclusion that as there was to be a 70D from Canon eventually but no 7Dll. The future of the semi pro camera would be FF. I believe that is still so.
> 
> IT might cost more than $1.500.00 but it will still be FF. I don't think Canon would want to sell a camera that would kill 5D mark lll sales.



That was the same Maeda rumor we were discussing earlier. It was the INTERVIEWER who made the conclusion that Canon would stop selling APS-C at the pro level. Maeda himself said that they still saw continued demand for the semi-pro APS-C segment, AS WELL AS *increased* demand for semi-pro FF. Those two statements are NOT mutually exclusive, and my take from Maeda's own comments was that there was continued demand for both, and that they would continue to supply both.


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## Don Haines (Dec 15, 2013)

dilbert said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > > Sales of the 70D are slower than expected,
> ...



I'm amazed that the T3i is still at the top of the list.... while the 5D3 shows up at #73....

So to answer your question, I'd invest in whatever can turn a profit....


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## jrista (Dec 15, 2013)

Don Haines said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



And the 7D shows up at #43. Given the scaling, that indicates the 7D is STILL a powerfully popular camera, even so many years after its release.


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## Rienzphotoz (Dec 15, 2013)

candc said:


> i like the idea of a big mp ff camera with a crop mode just like the nikon d800. problem is with an optical viewfinder you see a red crop square, but your view in the finder doesn't change. i think you need an electronic viewfinder for that to be a really useful feature so that what you see is what you get. now we are talking about mirrorless not dslr's


+1 ... I totally agree


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## jrista (Dec 15, 2013)

Rienzphotoz said:


> candc said:
> 
> 
> > i like the idea of a big mp ff camera with a crop mode just like the nikon d800. problem is with an optical viewfinder you see a red crop square, but your view in the finder doesn't change. i think you need an electronic viewfinder for that to be a really useful feature so that what you see is what you get. now we are talking about mirrorless not dslr's
> ...



You wouldn't need an EVF. Canon has transmissive LCD technology. They could simply black out the outer region of the frame with 100% opaque LCD pixels, leaving the center LCD pixels translucent (or semi-translucent for things like AF points.) We really don't NEED an EVF to achieve really kick-ass things...an OVF with a Transmissive LCD, which is what all current Canon pro-grade cameras use, can do a hell of a lot of cool things.


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## dgatwood (Dec 15, 2013)

jrista said:


> You wouldn't need an EVF. Canon has transmissive LCD technology. They could simply black out the outer region of the frame with 100% opaque LCD pixels, leaving the center LCD pixels translucent (or semi-translucent for things like AF points.) We really don't NEED an EVF to achieve really kick-ass things...an OVF with a Transmissive LCD, which is what all current Canon pro-grade cameras use, can do a hell of a lot of cool things.



Or they could just use the low-tech solution: A little plastic square that flips down into the viewfinder's optical path (or for maximum efficiency, a 1.6:1 magnifier).


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## vscd (Dec 15, 2013)

> We really don't NEED an EVF to achieve really kick-ass things..



A WISE WORD SPOKEN CALM! Please Canon, don't jump onto the Waggon of EVF... and I know you read forums.


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## KyleSTL (Dec 16, 2013)

dgatwood said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > The 6D is #11 an #16
> ...



Could that speak to the demographic of 6D owners, or that it was the first DSLR with built-in WiFi (which the 70D also has now), or the fact it was released many months before the 70D was announced or available? You cannot accurately infer sales data from such an observation.


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## jrista (Dec 16, 2013)

vscd said:


> > We really don't NEED an EVF to achieve really kick-ass things..
> 
> 
> 
> A WISE WORD SPOKEN CALM! Please Canon, don't jump onto the Waggon of EVF... and I know you read forums.



Totally with you. There are SOME things that only an EVF can do, but in general, I think MOST things that EVFs can do Canon could already do with their T-LCD OVF. For example, I would LOVE to have the ability to cycle my OVF between display modes: Clear (no display of anything), AF Points, Monochrome Histogram (just display black lines in a left to right histogram across the same area AF points normally occupy), Stippled Focus Peaking (blink stippled black dots along the edges or areas the AF Unit/Meter think are in focus, and Level (which only works in live view mode, which is great for landscapes, but there are more than a few occasions where I have to contort my body at an odd angle for Birds/BIF/Wildlife, and I sometimes end up with a wacko horizon even though I don't realize it...quickly being able to see the level in the OVF would be AWE-SOME!!!)


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## Chuck Alaimo (Dec 16, 2013)

Don Haines said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



You can't use all digital cameras for that kind of analysis ---the top seller there is a $68 P&S --- LOL --- at #12 there is a gopro suctioncup mount... $38 --- LOL --- and the 5d3 ranks at 373...well given what else is in this list, it's actually not bad at all --- do you really think a $3000 camera body would outsell anything else on that list?????? There is nothing there in the top 20 over $500 - the 70d pops in there at #36...that's the only thing above $500 within the top 40. The 70D pops up again, this time body only at #45 --- and still...that leaves only 2 items over the $500 mark in the top 60...

invest in what turns a profit? How many $68 P&S cameras must you sell to equal the profit from 1 5d3 sale? Not to mention that there are all those other reports on market trends - that being P&S on the decline, cell phone camera's on the rise...

So this list is like the worst list to use to base any decisions on. 

Said it before and will say it again --- what is the targeted market niche for the 7d2? Is that market segment enough to warrant putting the thing into production? who is this market segment? what other options are there for this target audience? I'm not saying I have that answer. But, however this question is answered is going to be a lead factor in any decision to release a 7d2 or not too.


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## WillT (Dec 16, 2013)

What ever Canon releases next they need to address the D800 and A7r.


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## Marsu42 (Dec 16, 2013)

jrista said:


> We really don't NEED an EVF to achieve really kick-ass things...



Well, you don't strictly "need" 90% of what a dslr does - but looking at how many threads are about thin dof, af and how to focus I'd say focus peaking in an evf is a breakthrough for anything faster than f2.8.


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## vscd (Dec 16, 2013)

> focus peaking in an evf is a breakthrough for anything faster than f2.8.



Use your Back-Display and Magic Lantern and let us work with a real Viewfinder.


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