# 430 ex II or the 580 ex II ??



## marcm1 (Jun 13, 2011)

I have a 7D and the lenses I have are the 70-200 2.8 non Is and 50 1.8 and will be getting a 24-70 2.8. I am starting to tak e portrait pics and basic run of the mill stuff. looking for suggestions on which flash to get. I see where canon direct has refurbished 580 exII for 399.00 with a 90 daay warranty should I buy new, used or refurbished? have never bought a flash before so would like to get a good one.

Thanks,

Marc


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 13, 2011)

I'd go with the 580EX II - for portrait work, you'll want to do two things:

1) get your flash off the camera - and since the 7D has built-in IR flash control, can probably get away without additional hardware

2) diffuse the light, i.e. get a softbox - choose carefully, since the IR is line of sight, so your softbox can't block the receiver on the flash (that's actually why I use PocketWizards - but if you're going that route, consider 430EX II's instead).

With diffusion, you lose flash power, which is why I suggest the more powerful flash. If you go with a 430EX II, you'll need more than one (I use two, each in a Lastolite EzyBox Hotshoe, and I often use a monolight for key).


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## marcm1 (Jun 13, 2011)

what about a standard walk around flash, this is just for personal use with my kids and when I'm just out shooting , to have a flash that will work for most standard situations as far as taking pics of them playing, portrait etc.

Thanks,

Marc


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## Spaniard (Jun 13, 2011)

I'll go for 580 EXII.


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## marcm1 (Jun 13, 2011)

New , Used, or Refurbished ????


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## Flake (Jun 13, 2011)

I wish people would put currency signs in ! Â£399 would be very expensive $399 might be reasonable !

The 580EX II gives just 2/3 extra stop over the 430 unless you really need the power then the 430 will do. The 580 gives master control over speedlites, and the strobe function, but again if you don't need these there's no point paying.

Consider the Nissin 866 which costs around half the 580EX II and replicates the features, or two 430s and an ST-E2 (Yongnuo) to control them

Buy Syl Arenas Speedliters handbook to get the most out of what ever unit you do buy.

I wouldn't suggest you buy any light modifiers unit you have the flash unit (and the book) and you know what you're doing, and what will work best for you.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 13, 2011)

marcm1 said:


> what about a standard walk around flash, this is just for personal use with my kids and when I'm just out shooting , to have a flash that will work for most standard situations as far as taking pics of them playing, portrait etc.



For that, I'd go with a 430EX II and a small diffuser like a StoFen Omnibounce. Here are two examples with a single on-camera 430EX II with StoFen. The first is bounced off the ceiling for a primary light, the second is used as a fill flash to supplement the ambient light:




EOS 5D Mark II, EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM @ 105mm, 1/60 s, f/4, ISO 400




EOS 5D Mark II, EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM @ 47mm, 1/125 s, f/5, ISO 400

I find the power of the 430EX II to be sufficient for most uses - a pointed out above, the 580EX II is only slightly more powerful. One other advantage of the 430 over the 580 is that since both flashes are powered by 4 AA cells, the 430EX II actually recycles faster than the 580EX II, meaning it does a better job of keeping up with a burst of shots (which helps when shooting kids).


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## Flake (Jun 13, 2011)

A Stofen type diffuser is a reasonable thing to buy with the flash - or a gary fong lightsphere which is a bit bigger & attracts all kinds of [unwanted] attention Do not be tempted to buy the mini softboxes which fit while the flash is on camera, they are no better than the stofen, but cost more and are excessively bulky. (I know this from experience!)


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## 7enderbender (Jun 13, 2011)

I have both and you can't really go wrong either way. Some considerations/observations:

- The 580EXII is a little more powerful. There may be situations where that is a plus. For the most part it won't make a difference

- The 430EXII is lighter. With my 5DII (plus grip and slightly heavier lens) I am reaching the point of slight discomfort with the 580EXII attached. Nothing major though.

- The 580EXII buttons/wheel are much better. The 430EXII buttons need to be pressed pretty deeply and are not very responsive in comparison.

- The 580EXII can act as a master. The 430 can't. Though both can be triggered from your 7D (I think).

- According to reports on various forums the 580EXII can (!) fail every now and then. Lot's of speculations and conflicting information around this. The 430EXII seem to have a slight edge in that department. Both, in my opinion, suffer from the hideous "quick lock" mechanism. Some people like it. I find it impractical and it looks error prone in the long run to me. If you buy used or refurbished anyway you might look at previous models that work equally fine and have the traditional locking screw (e.g. 580EX or 550EX)

- There are some alternatives. The best probably being the Metz 58. It has some pros and some cons. Other off-brands don't seem to have any pros other than price.


Here is how I use things:

If all I carry is one flash I bring along the 580EXII. Just in case I do need the power and because I like the buttons better. When traveling light (just camera and one lens) I bring along my 270EX as it fits in a shirt pocket or so and still gets pretty good results for a lot of applications.
I bring both the 430 and 580 if I want to use off camera flash.

For anything where the flash will remain attached to the camera for longer periods of time (e.g. any function with a larger group of people in a large room with high ceilings) I'll bring my old Metz 45 CT-4 (manual control, no TTL etc).

I don't do any of this professionally.

Good luck.


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## Cornershot (Jun 13, 2011)

One indispensable benefit for me that the 580ex has over the 430ex is being able to use external power. If you are working all day or need a lot of power in a short amount of time with faster recycle speeds, you need an external power pack. The 430 can't use one. Other than that, the 430 is a great flash that's good enough in most situations.


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## marcm1 (Jun 14, 2011)

Thanks guys for all the info, I will look into the 430 EXII I think. It will be mostly used only on the camera unless down the road I change my mind then I can buy a 580 EX II if I need too. If I decide to shoot some pictures of individuals should I move the flash from the camera one of those support brackets that mount the camera? Sorry for such novice questions but I'm just trying to learn!!

Thanks,

Marc


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 14, 2011)

marcm1 said:


> If I decide to shoot some pictures of individuals should I move the flash from the camera one of those support brackets that mount the camera? Sorry for such novice questions but I'm just trying to learn!!



That's one possibility (you'd also need an off-camera shoe cord). The idea is to move the flash further from the axis of the lens, which reduces red-eye; getting the flash higher also provides a more 'natural' light, in that our brains are used to light sources that are above us (i.e. the sun). But it depends on where you're shooting - if you're shooting around the house, and have 8-9' white ceilings, you'll get a better result by angling the flash head up and bouncing it off the ceiling. The bigger the light source, the softer the light (= good), and while a flash head is small, the ceiling is big (softboxes and umbrellas serve a similar purpose, making the light source effectively larger).

As recommended above, consider getting Syl Arena's book on lighting - it's an excellent resource.


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