# R5: No 4K RAW video?



## cayenne (Jul 9, 2020)

It appears that while we have 8K RAW video, there doesn't seem to be 4K RAW video....or am I missing something?

If no 4K RAW...any ideas why it isn't there?

Think it will be added later with a firmware update?

I'd think it would be a no brainer to have 4K and maybe even 1080p RAW.....?

Thoughts?

cayenne


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## SteveC (Jul 9, 2020)

cayenne said:


> It appears that while we have 8K RAW video, there doesn't seem to be 4K RAW video....or am I missing something?
> 
> If no 4K RAW...any ideas why it isn't there?
> 
> ...



But does it have 24 p?


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## cayenne (Jul 9, 2020)

SteveC said:


> But does it have 24 p?



I thought I saw 24p flash by on the presentation.

But the 4K RAW seems something that should be there naturally, no?

C


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## SteveC (Jul 9, 2020)

I don't disagree, I was just having some fun remembering that old kerfuffle.


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## Axilrod (Jul 9, 2020)

I know like on a RED Helium 8K if you shoot 4k there is a massive crop, like 3x (and like 5x+ in 1080p) since 4k size is only a small portion of the sensor. Maybe thats the same issue here. From what it looks like if you want to shoot RAW with the R5 you're gonna have to shoot 8K unfortunately, it needs to use the entire sensor I guess. In theory they could add it later but it's going to have a big crop.

Honestly I'm kinda leaning towards the R6 because of this at this point, it does better in low light and still does 10-Bit and 4K60.


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## Graphic.Artifacts (Jul 9, 2020)

Raw is Raw. If you sample it down from 8K it isn't Raw anymore. 4K raw would only be able to use 1/4th of the sensor.. At least that is the way I understand it.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jul 9, 2020)

Echoing others, unless a 2x crop it would not be RAW. RAW video to me means you want every last bit of information out of that sensor and then'll you'll process it yourself to 4k via cropping or downsampling.


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## cayenne (Jul 9, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> Echoing others, unless a 2x crop it would not be RAW. RAW video to me means you want every last bit of information out of that sensor and then'll you'll process it yourself to 4k via cropping or downsampling.



Well, I thought the definition of RAW was data taken from the pixels more or less directly.

So, if they took data from less of the sensor to make the 4K RAW file...to me, that would still be RAW?

C


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## koenkooi (Jul 9, 2020)

cayenne said:


> Well, I thought the definition of RAW was data taken from the pixels more or less directly.
> 
> So, if they took data from less of the sensor to make the 4K RAW file...to me, that would still be RAW?



Medium-rare to rare?


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## Graphic.Artifacts (Jul 9, 2020)

I don't know of any cameras that do raw from less then the entire sensor. That doesn't mean there aren't any. I'm not sure there aren't other issues with how the raw data is read. In any event. Most Raw shooters wouldn't be happy with giving up 3/4th of the sensor so what's the point? Shoot 8K raw and then crop it later,


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## Axilrod (Jul 9, 2020)

It may be possible for one of the external recorder manufacturers to come up with something that will record 4K Raw, we'll have to wait and see I suppose.


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## Kit. (Jul 9, 2020)

cayenne said:


> It appears that while we have 8K RAW video, there doesn't seem to be 4K RAW video....or am I missing something?
> 
> If no 4K RAW...any ideas why it isn't there?
> 
> ...


I think 5.5K RAW is more logical to be added via a firmware update.


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## cayenne (Jul 10, 2020)

Kit. said:


> I think 5.5K RAW is more logical to be added via a firmware update.



That would be cool.

And again, I'm asking from a very NOOB point of view, I don't know what sensor/MP sizes translate into what xK video......

I was just thinking of a smaller RAW....that you could just take sensor data and make it whatever size you wanted.....

Still so much to learn.

C


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## padam (Jul 10, 2020)

No, it does not have it. And yes, it is marketing segmentation and it won't have it later either. RAW = 8K30p FF only.
Otherwise they would have promised it with a future firmware update like they told people at the EOS R launch.

The camera is likely fully capable of 5.1K RAW video up to 60p in the APS-C crop mode, but they won't do it (it probably has enough limitations with the heat as-is).
Internal 10-bit 4:2:2 is still impressive, to be honest, as long as the hardware+software support becomes good enough for the codec.


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## cayenne (Jul 10, 2020)

padam said:


> No, it does not have it. And yes, it is marketing segmentation and it won't have it later either. RAW = 8K30p FF only.
> Otherwise they would have promised it with a future firmware update like they told people at the EOS R launch.
> 
> The camera is likely fully capable of 5.1K RAW video up to 60p in the APS-C crop mode, but they won't do it (it probably has enough limitations with the heat as-is).
> Internal 10-bit 4:2:2 is still impressive, to be honest, as long as the hardware+software support becomes good enough for the codec.



But what about to something external...like the Atomos Ninja V. ?

Could they do 4K or 5.1K RAW out to an external unit?

C


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## padam (Jul 10, 2020)

cayenne said:


> But what about to something external...like the Atomos Ninja V. ?
> 
> Could they do 4K or 5.1K RAW out to an external unit?
> 
> C


They are not designed to output RAW signal in any given form, they can only process and send that to the internal media.
They can only output 10-bit 4:2:2 4K60p signal via HDMI (no 8K or 4K120p obviously), so the main benefits are the Prores codec being less taxing on the editing or cheaper SSD recording media (and possibly a little less overheating, needs more testing).

I may be wrong, but as far as I know, from their current lineup only their most expensive cinema camera, the Canon C700 which has support for external RAW output, they are relying on recording it internally.

Nikon, Panasonic and Sony rely more on external recording, but they won't offer internal RAW in any form and it still always hanging outside the camera.

The EOS R5 can record in 8K for short periods, and it can still remain quite unassuming, fully handheld, without any kind of support.
That's quite something, if you think about it.

Pros and cons to both.


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## cayenne (Jul 10, 2020)

padam said:


> They are not designed to output RAW signal in any given form, they can only process and send that to the internal media.
> They can only output 10-bit 4:2:2 4K60p signal via HDMI (no 8K or 4K120p obviously), so the main benefits are the Prores codec being less taxing on the editing or cheaper SSD recording media (and possibly a little less overheating, needs more testing).
> 
> I may be wrong, but as far as I know, from their current lineup only their most expensive cinema camera, the Canon C700 which has support for external RAW output, they are relying on recording it internally.
> ...



The reason I ask, is that the Fuji GFX100, with a firmware update in the past week or so...enabled 4K ProRes RAW capability to that camera to the external Atomos Ninja V.....
It didn't and still doesn't have that internal and it wasn't originally ON the camera, but through the last firmware they added it.

So, I was thinking perhaps this could be something Canon could do later with firmware.

I figure their lab guys are as smart at the Fuji lab guys, eh?


Anyway....I likely WILL get the R5 at some point, but I can't quite afford it right now. So, gonna wait a bit on the side lines and see what people report back when they get the first units in their hands.

Thank you for all the response and help, I"m learning a lot here!!

C


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## padam (Jul 10, 2020)

cayenne said:


> The reason I ask, is that the Fuji GFX100, with a firmware update in the past week or so...enabled 4K ProRes RAW capability to that camera to the external Atomos Ninja V.....
> 
> Thank you for all the response and help, I"m learning a lot here!!
> 
> C


Canon is doing their own thing and they just don't provide a lot of features to support other companies like Atomos.
Other huge companies like Apple and Nvidia are also sharing this type of practise.

Fuji and the other camera companies are different and they have their own quirks.

You're welcome. It's still annyoing hearing all this bashing from other users regarding the R5's issues, but it is good to hear professionals about what kind of work it could be perfectly suitable for, like:

- Short Films

- Music Videos

- Commercials

- Stock Footage

- Pro Stills

- BTS

- YouTube videos

It is probably not the camera made for shooting weddings or long events, but it still has an absolutely huge range of capabilities that people suddenly seem to "forget".
And it is still small and quite light as well, unlike a Panasoinc S1H.


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## cayenne (Jul 13, 2020)

padam said:


> Canon is doing their own thing and they just don't provide a lot of features to support other companies like Atomos.
> Other huge companies like Apple and Nvidia are also sharing this type of practise.
> 
> Fuji and the other camera companies are different and they have their own quirks.
> ...



I hadn't really heard the bashing of the R5, until maybe yesterday, on YouTube. People are going a bit overboard complaining about video overheating, and other things....BEFORE the camera has even gotten released, with final production systems going out for review..?!?!

Not sure why people are complaining about problems before the production versions of the camera have even been released to anyone....is there a problems before there is a camera?


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