# What is this banding in the sky?



## MrFotoFool (Jun 5, 2017)

I was working on a photo from a year ago when I noticed a horrible phenomenon. There is some strange banding in the sky. Looking back at other images, I have two different shots from the basically the same angle and they also show banding (perhaps slightly less severe). I have not noticed this in any other shots I have taken (including different angles from this same morning).

Any thoughts? My instinct tells me it is an artifact of the circular polarizing filter. I use a Sigma DG wide C-PL, based largely on a comparison review site listing polarizers. However looking at one of the two other views I took from the same angle (zoomed farther back), I did a comparison with and without filter and it looks like they both have it.

Lens is Canon 100-400 4.5-5.6L ii and body is 5D3. As I said I have never seen this in any other photos, just the three from this same angle and time. What is going on here???


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## weixing (Jun 5, 2017)

Hi,
My first thought is that it look like layers of cloud as the "banding" doesn't seem consistent across the photo. 
Hmm... will banding occur only part of the photo and is not straight??

May be you can post a full resolution of the photo? 

Have a nice day.


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## mb66energy (Jun 5, 2017)

I am shure the banding is a cloud pattern (like you, weixing, supposed first) maybe caused by contrails which were softened over the time. In Germany this is a common phenomenon but due to the high population density more criss cross shaped. Which spoils 90% of possibly interesting landscape photos - with a few days exception in 2010 thanks to Eyjafjalljökull, a volcano in island which interrupted all flight activity.

Use of a polarizer maybe has increased the effect. From your picture I see that the light came from the right side slightly behind you - so the polarizer has the highest efficiency to reduce the reflections of haze (between the proposed contrail remnants) but cannot reduce the direct reflection of the droplets making the cloudy stripes (of the proposed contrail remnants).

About the banding of contrails: If you have an airplane route the contrails should accumulate to a thick contrail structure but wind shifts the contrails. Due to very tight time slots (again here in Europe) the planes pass by in nearly the same interval.
A reason for some inconsistency of these patterns is the fact that the amount of water vapor in the upper atmosphere (12000m) allows for contrails or not. The distribution of the water vapor has influence where contrails are produced and where not - with soft transistions. I observed "invisible" planes becoming more and more visible due to their contrails while the plane entered a region which was saturated with water vapor hence the water vapor of the jet engines condensated and produced the contrails.

Just my 2ct ...


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## candyman (Jun 5, 2017)

I would think the same: cloud pattern / color.
I have similar effect in this photo




Mill 'Het noorden' on the island of Texel, The Netherlands by Thornmill Images, on Flickr


It does not appear on other photos


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## zim (Jun 5, 2017)

I don't think that the natural banding of the rock formations is helping either, adding to the effect almost like an interference pattern.


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## YuengLinger (Jun 5, 2017)

A clear symptom of climate change.


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## MrFotoFool (Jun 5, 2017)

But what is odd is the lines seem so straight. They cannot be like this in real life? Is it perhaps the atmospheric conditions you suggest are reacting with the digital sensor to create a kind of moire' pattern?

BTW, I am dropping off the file today at my photo lab to see if they can fix it in Photoshop. I have some basic Photoshop skills, but this is too advanced for me and their manager/retoucher is an expert.


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## Sharlin (Jun 5, 2017)

MrFotoFool said:


> But what is odd is the lines seem so straight. They cannot be like this in real life? Is it perhaps the atmospheric conditions you suggest are reacting with the digital sensor to create a kind of moire' pattern?



They are clouds. They don't seem straight at all, they're pretty wavy. Cirrostratus or similar, I'd guess.


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## Ryananthony (Jun 5, 2017)

Looks like clouds to me.


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## MrFotoFool (Jun 5, 2017)

Hmmm. So what everyone is saying is this is a well known phenomenon and there is no solution? I wonder if film would handle it better (though I finally sold my last film camera, so to me it's a moot point).


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## ajfotofilmagem (Jun 6, 2017)

Do you want to erase the clouds from the sky? ???

These "banding" are not so direct, and show ripples, with no geometric pattern. Either you viewed it at 100%, and found regular geometric patterns?


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## ajfotofilmagem (Jun 6, 2017)

MrFotoFool said:


> Lens is Canon 100-400 4.5-5.6L ii and body is 5D3. As I said I have never seen this in any other photos, just the three from this same angle and time. What is going on here???


The polarizer filter can show the difference between clouds and the sky, and change its effect when you change the angle.


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## mb66energy (Jun 6, 2017)

MrFotoFool said:


> Hmmm. So what everyone is saying is this is a well known phenomenon and there is no solution? I wonder if film would handle it better (though I finally sold my last film camera, so to me it's a moot point).



Solution 1:
Wait for dry upper atmosphere - no contrails and corresponding clouds

Solution 2:
Electric engines for air planes with nuclear reactors as power source - very expensive and maybe not so well accepted ...

Solution 3:
Integrate the clouds into the image - banding on the rocks and the sky might correspond. Try converting the image to B/W and increase the contrast of the sky using a digital red filter.

Film is no solution because it records patterns similar to good digital sensors.


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## scyrene (Jun 6, 2017)

LOL.

Yes, sometimes the sky has horizontal bands in it. Round here, we call it 'weather'. Here's an image I took a few years ago (low res as I've grabbed it from social media rather than seeking the original file on my backup drive) that shows how very regular these horizontal bands can be. It's not a fault of your imaging equipment, though as others have suggested, a filter *might* enhance it. Otherwise, it can be emphasised by postprocessing. Either way, it's normal and natural.

With all due respect to the OP, sometimes I wonder if people aren't searching for problems that don't exist.


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## Keith_Reeder (Jun 6, 2017)

MrFotoFool said:


> Hmmm. So what everyone is saying is this is a well known phenomenon and there is no solution?



Well, you could shoot on cloudless or 100% cloud days...

This isn't a camera artefact - it's weather.


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## Click (Jun 6, 2017)

Keith_Reeder said:


> This isn't a camera artefact - it's weather.



+1


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## NancyP (Jun 6, 2017)

Clouds. I like them. Keep them. It's a nice photo, don't over-think things too much, just enjoy.


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## Keith_Reeder (Jun 6, 2017)

I agree, Nancy - they add to the picture.

To be fair to the OP though, I can understand him stressing over the idea that he might be seeing a fault, and I hope that the comments here have put his mind at rest.


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## dak723 (Jun 6, 2017)

Sometimes what is natural, looks unnatural. If this were my photo, I would probably blend out those cloud bands, but that is just my opinion.


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## Sporgon (Jun 6, 2017)

Terrible banding in the sky here, but as it was shot on a 5DII it's pretty much what I expect 

( Apologises to Eldar; this is Drax Power Station, the culprit of acid rain falling in Norway).


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## MrFotoFool (Jun 8, 2017)

I just have never seen clouds with that pattern before - narrow straight lines. I will admit I live in the southern Arizona desert where the days are cloudless more often than not.

I got a brief phone message from my photo lab saying it looks like clouds and they cannot retouch it and keep it looking good/natural. So I guess I will live with it or figure out how to minimize it (reduce contrast in sky?).

I do think in this particular example the pattern is somewhat harsh - much more so than the couple sample photos that have been posted by others. But I appreciate the responses so at least now I know it is not due to anything I did or to any camera issues.


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## MrFotoFool (Jun 12, 2017)

LINES BE GONE!!! I don't care if it's a natural phenomenon, the banding was too distinct and it was driving me nuts. After playing with several methods, I found one that works _to my satisfaction_. (Some of you may prefer the original and that's fine, or you may just think it's a boring photo either way, which is fine too). If you are curious about my process read on, but if not stop here.

I enhanced the general contrast etc to make it pop using Nik Viveza (inside of Photoshop Elements 12). As most of you know, Nik filters show up as a layer above the unfiltered background (original photo). I then erased the sky on the Viveza layer (leaving the rocks and balloons). I put the color selector on one of the darker bands of the sky to choose that color. Selecting the base layer (of which only the sky would show through), I used the paint bucket at a moderate amount (around 25% I think) and poured it onto a light band of sky. It was enough to fill the entire sky with that color. Side effect is it makes the sky too smooth/fake, so I went back into PSE12 and added noise to base layer (again of which only sky shows through).


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## zim (Jun 12, 2017)

FWIW Mr FF I prefer your edited version, less distracting and more focus on the ballons and of course those amazing rock formations!


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## scyrene (Jun 17, 2017)

MrFotoFool said:


> LINES BE GONE!!! I don't care if it's a natural phenomenon, the banding was too distinct and it was driving me nuts. After playing with several methods, I found one that works _to my satisfaction_. (Some of you may prefer the original and that's fine, or you may just think it's a boring photo either way, which is fine too). If you are curious about my process read on, but if not stop here.
> 
> I enhanced the general contrast etc to make it pop using Nik Viveza (inside of Photoshop Elements 12). As most of you know, Nik filters show up as a layer above the unfiltered background (original photo). I then erased the sky on the Viveza layer (leaving the rocks and balloons). I put the color selector on one of the darker bands of the sky to choose that color. Selecting the base layer (of which only the sky would show through), I used the paint bucket at a moderate amount (around 25% I think) and poured it onto a light band of sky. It was enough to fill the entire sky with that color. Side effect is it makes the sky too smooth/fake, so I went back into PSE12 and added noise to base layer (again of which only sky shows through).



I'm glad you found peace, but maybe accept that the world doesn't always look how you imagine, and that's okay.


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## Click (Jun 17, 2017)

zim said:


> FWIW Mr FF I prefer your edited version, less distracting and more focus on the ballons and of course those amazing rock formations!



Same here.

Well done, MrFotoFool.


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