# Long exposure on an unstable platform



## RChauhan (Apr 18, 2015)

I work on a ship and have seen some amazing night skies.

The problem with the normal long exposure techniques is that the engine vibrations and the motion cause a lot of shake.

Does anybody have any ideas to deal with this?

I am carrying a 70D & aTokina 11-16 f2.8.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 18, 2015)

For a really long exposure, it isn't going to work. A lens with good IS might help, but only for minor vibration, and not pitching of a boat.

You should probably try taking a series of short exposures and then merge them in Photoshop or similar software. Each image will be sharp, and as long as they are focused on distant objects, the perspective may not change enough to matter over a few seconds.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 18, 2015)

Oops, I suddenly realized that you might be wanting to show motion of the clouds? The multiple shot technique will give a sharp in-focus image, but will not show blurred clouds or water from motion.


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## RChauhan (Apr 18, 2015)

Those are just the kind of pictures I can get so far.

I wanted to get some pictures of the milky way.

The problem I find is that short exposures on my 70D need too high an ISO and the noise gets too high and ruins the stack.


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## Don Haines (Apr 18, 2015)

RChauhan said:


> I work on a ship and have seen some amazing night skies.
> 
> The problem with the normal long exposure techniques is that the engine vibrations and the motion cause a lot of shake.
> 
> ...



The first thing I would try is a set of anti-vibration pads from a telescope store....
http://www.telescope.com/Mounts-Tripods/Mount-Tripod-Accessories/Orion-RockStable-Anti-Vibration-Pads-for-Telescope-Mounts/c/2/sc/38/p/5155.uts

That will help with the vibration, but as to the rolling motion, unless you have a tracking mount (like for the ship's Inmarsat dish), there isn't much you can do. It is easy to get a telescope mount with an "autoguider" that will track your target, but they are meant for celestial speeds and are nowhere near fast enough to compensate for a ship's motion.

P.S., how do you like the Tokina?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 18, 2015)

RChauhan said:


> Those are just the kind of pictures I can get so far.
> 
> I wanted to get some pictures of the milky way.
> 
> The problem I find is that short exposures on my 70D need too high an ISO and the noise gets too high and ruins the stack.



The idea is that you can underexpose the images and still merge them to get a good one.

http://www.media-division.com/photoshop-tricks-solving-common-photography-problems-using-image-stacks/


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## Chisox2335 (Apr 18, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> RChauhan said:
> 
> 
> > Those are just the kind of pictures I can get so far.
> ...



I realize this doesn't help with your existing setup but if you got a 6d with a Rokinon 24 f1.4 you can take excellent shots with remarkably quick shutter speed and high ISO. I can get shots in 2 seconds sometimes


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## unfocused (Apr 18, 2015)

Looking at that first image, my reaction is: why would you want to change anything? It's beautiful and far more interesting than a razor sharp image. Sure it would be nice if the containers could be a little sharper and you might be able to figure a way to achieve that, possibly by mounting the camera to some surface iof the ship and using IS, but honestly that image is so original that I'd encourage you to just keep experimenting to see what you come up with without worrying about how the picture is "supposed" to look!

(You might also be able to create the illusion of sharpness by using the high pass filter in Photoshop and masking it So the filter only affects the containers.)


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## Eldar (Apr 18, 2015)

unfocused said:


> Looking at that first image, my reaction is: why would you want to change anything? It's beautiful and far more interesting than a razor sharp image. Sure it would be nice if the containers could be a little sharper and you might be able to figure a way to achieve that, possibly by mounting the camera to some surface iof the ship and using IS, but honestly that image is so original that I'd encourage you to just keep experimenting to see what you come up with without worrying about how the picture is "supposed" to look!
> 
> (You might also be able to create the illusion of sharpness by using the high pass filter in Photoshop and masking it So the filter only affects the containers.)


My exact thoughts too.


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## tpatana (Apr 18, 2015)

Eldar said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Looking at that first image, my reaction is: why would you want to change anything? It's beautiful and far more interesting than a razor sharp image. Sure it would be nice if the containers could be a little sharper and you might be able to figure a way to achieve that, possibly by mounting the camera to some surface iof the ship and using IS, but honestly that image is so original that I'd encourage you to just keep experimenting to see what you come up with without worrying about how the picture is "supposed" to look!
> ...



Me too!


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## Don Haines (Apr 18, 2015)

unfocused said:


> Sure it would be nice if the containers could be a little sharper and you might be able to figure a way to achieve that, possibly by mounting the camera to some surface iof the ship and using IS



A 20,000 HP engine on a seagoing vessel makes a fair bit of vibration, and you also get flex over the vessel. hard mounting the camera to the ship makes it worse.... we ended up using mounts that clamped onto a post and a 2" thick rubber plate to cut down on vibration.


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## RChauhan (Apr 18, 2015)

tpatana said:


> Eldar said:
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> > unfocused said:
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Thanks for the encouragement. I intend to keep shooting these pictures, but the question was for a completely different type because of the total darkness we get mid-ocean we can see a lot more stars than we would see almost anywhere on land.


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## RChauhan (Apr 18, 2015)

Don Haines said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Sure it would be nice if the containers could be a little sharper and you might be able to figure a way to achieve that, possibly by mounting the camera to some surface iof the ship and using IS
> ...



Try 50,000+ HP ;D


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## Orangutan (Apr 18, 2015)

At this very moment, Surapon is in his workshop constructing a DIY 3-axis gyroscopic stabilization system with 1.2 meters of motion latitude using nothing more than old tripods, packing material from Amazon.com, and parts from a rusted-out Trabant.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 18, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> At this very moment, Surapon is in his workshop constructing a DIY 3-axis gyroscopic stabilization system with 1.2 meters of motion latitude using nothing more than old tripods, packing material from Amazon.com, and parts from a rusted-out Trabant.



Already been Done 

http://www.littlegreatideas.com/stabilizer/diy/


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 18, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > At this very moment, Surapon is in his workshop constructing a DIY 3-axis gyroscopic stabilization system with 1.2 meters of motion latitude using nothing more than old tripods, packing material from Amazon.com, and parts from a rusted-out Trabant.
> ...



I wonder if something like the video stabilizers would help. I've never used one, and, for me, its not intuitive.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 18, 2015)

For a bit more, a active stabilizer would do it.

http://www.prutchi.com/2012/03/09/d-i-y-gyroscopic-camera-stabilizer-that-really-works/


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## Orangutan (Apr 18, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> For a bit more, a active stabilizer would do it.
> 
> http://www.prutchi.com/2012/03/09/d-i-y-gyroscopic-camera-stabilizer-that-really-works/



Your Goog-Fu must be better than mine, I did a quick search for such a thing before I posted. For 30-second exposures an active stabilizer could certainly help with stars, and probably clouds. I think physical laws of the Universe preclude doing anything about the cargo at the same time (other than via a composite image).


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 18, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > For a bit more, a active stabilizer would do it.
> ...



You have to guess the right words to search with. Apparently, camera gyro stabilizers are getting popular due to the quadcopter fad. They do tend to be expensive. You might easily rig up a simple stabilizer with a weight. Its a simple principle, and cheap ones abound.

http://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss_2?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=video+camera+stabilizer


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## Orangutan (Apr 18, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Orangutan said:
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> > Mt Spokane Photography said:
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The OP needs it for 30 second exposures rather than video, so active gyros are probably the best bet, especially if he can mount it in a very low friction cradle.


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## RChauhan (Apr 25, 2015)

Would any of you recommend a Manfrotto Magic Arml http://www.amazon.com/Manfrotto-244-Variable-Friction-Bracket/dp/B000J4FONU and a Manfrotto Super Clamp http://www.amazon.com/Manfrotto-035RL-Super-Clamp-Standard/dp/B0018LQVIA/ref=pd_bxgy_p_text_y for fitting the camera onto the ship for the pictures?


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## Don Haines (Apr 25, 2015)

RChauhan said:


> Don Haines said:
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> > unfocused said:
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we had 150,000HP.... but the 20,000HP diesel made far more vibrations that the pair of 55,000HP turbines....


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## Don Haines (Apr 25, 2015)

RChauhan said:


> Would any of you recommend a Manfrotto Magic Arml http://www.amazon.com/Manfrotto-244-Variable-Friction-Bracket/dp/B000J4FONU and a Manfrotto Super Clamp http://www.amazon.com/Manfrotto-035RL-Super-Clamp-Standard/dp/B0018LQVIA/ref=pd_bxgy_p_text_y for fitting the camera onto the ship for the pictures?



It's got to be tied down somehow, or eventually it will go for it's own adventure. When I used the DSLR, I tied a tripod to a rail and used 2 inches of thick foam to pad the tripod and (hopefully) absorb vibrations. I used a gear head on the top of the tripod as it was a lot sturdier than the ball head I had with me...


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## RChauhan (Apr 25, 2015)

Don Haines said:


> RChauhan said:
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> > Don Haines said:
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Sounds like a Dynamic Positioning Dive Support or Offshore vessel? One main engine and the Turbines when on station? I work on large merchant vessels so totally different scene. One massive engine. One used 170 tons of heavy fuel a day.

Yeah, turbines are much smoother. I once heard Diesel engines described as the best way to turn fuel into noise ;D


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## RChauhan (Apr 25, 2015)

Don Haines said:


> RChauhan said:
> 
> 
> > Would any of you recommend a Manfrotto Magic Arml http://www.amazon.com/Manfrotto-244-Variable-Friction-Bracket/dp/B000J4FONU and a Manfrotto Super Clamp http://www.amazon.com/Manfrotto-035RL-Super-Clamp-Standard/dp/B0018LQVIA/ref=pd_bxgy_p_text_y for fitting the camera onto the ship for the pictures?
> ...



Right, I agree. So what I am thinking of is a kit made up of 2 super clamps, one articulating arm, gorillapod and ballhead or geared head. Rubber pads and cable ties can be sourced on the ship as needed. This should give me a lot of mounting options.

Any products you would recommend instead of the manfrotto ones? or in addition to?

Thanks for all the help.


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## rs (Apr 25, 2015)

RChauhan said:


> Don Haines said:
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> > RChauhan said:
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I have a manfrotto super clamp and magic arm - it's great at what it does - mounting a camera in a hard to reach place for hours at a time - but it does need to be mounted to a solid platform. Any vibrations from the mounting platform will be amplified, and could well result in slippage and/or falling off. 

I also have a top of the line gorrilapod, and wouldn't like to use that for long periods of time - vibration or no vibration. Personally I'd investigate what others have suggested - some sort of way of isolating the camera from the vibrations, or a long burst of short photos to stack together to cancel out the movement between frames, and also cancel out the noise while increasing the signal.


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