# 60D Front Focusing



## Hendan (Nov 12, 2014)

Hi guys, I have a 60D I've used moderately over the last 3 years with quite good results, but I'm noticing something which is becoming increasingly annoying as I try to get more out of my equipment.

The short is, I seem to have focusing problems. Up close, anywhere from MFD to, maybe, 25-40 feet, I can get tack sharp images reliably (to the extent that you can get reliable anything at f/1.4..). Outside of that it seems sharpness does not exist. 

Since you're wondering, my lenses are (all Canon) 35 1.4, 50 1.4, 85 1.8. The issue seems consistent across all of them. 

Recently, taking pictures at an event, I played around and found what seemed to be a consistent forward focus. Focusing on something just in front of the speaker I could get him (basically) in focus. 

Now what?


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## bvukich (Nov 12, 2014)

Since there is no AF microadjustment on the 60D, your only real option is to send it into Canon along with your lenses to get calibrated. 

I'm unsure of the cost of that these days, hopefully someone else can chime in with that.


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## Marsu42 (Nov 12, 2014)

Hendan said:


> Since you're wondering, my lenses are (all Canon) 35 1.4, 50 1.4, 85 1.8. The issue seems consistent across all of them.



Gotcha! With thin dof (i.e. probably more expensive) lenses, Canon wanted you to use a more expensive camera body like the 7d and removed afma on 50d->60d. Thanks, Canon!

They re-introduced afma with the 70d. If all your lenses show the same behavior it seems they are rather Canon-"standard" and your camera body is off. You can ask Canon service for a cost estimate, but with the 60d it's probably not "worth it". An equivalent solution would be to sell your 60d (to people with slower lenses) and rather put the service cost into buying a 70d.


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## Valvebounce (Nov 12, 2014)

Hi Marsu. 
It would seem Canon had some sort of indecision going on with AFMA. 
AFMA FITTED
40D NO
50D YES
60D NO
70D YES
80D ??
Would they dare remove it again?

Cheers, Graham. 




Marsu42 said:


> Hendan said:
> 
> 
> > Since you're wondering, my lenses are (all Canon) 35 1.4, 50 1.4, 85 1.8. The issue seems consistent across all of them.
> ...


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## Marsu42 (Nov 12, 2014)

Valvebounce said:


> Would they dare remove it again?



That's my general beef with Canon - they don't care that much about an inner consistency/use case of a camera, but add or withhold features according to their current lineup and price structure. Other manufacturers seem to care at least a bit more about giving a specific model a more logical feature set, while Canon wants to upsell.

A recent example: 70d has no gps - that would be because they couldn't include wifi into the 7d2, and surely a lower camera body cannot have a more complete feature set than the real thing 

Releasing an xxd camera w/o afma was esp. annoying and Canon took a lot of heat for it, so maybe they'll keep that in mind. But be prepared for upcoming annoyances and "crippling" when buying anything below their premium gear - lenses or camera bodies.


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## old-pr-pix (Nov 12, 2014)

As a long time 60D user I can sympathize with your situation. The lack of auto focus micro adjust on the 60D is a glaring omission. Nevertheless, some comments and questions...
1) Are you specifying which auto focus point to use or do you let the camera pick? If you let the camera pick it prefers subjects closer to the camera. Use center point only and learn to focus and recompose.
2) It sounds like your problem is back focus -- sharp focus is behind the point you told the camera to focus on. Or, did I read your comment wrong? Back focus issue tends to indicate #1 isn't what you are experiencing.
3) The lenses you list are all great lenses, but tend to be older designs without the latest AF closed loop technologies -- see various articles by Roger Cicala at LensRentals for example http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2010/03/this-lens-is-soft-and-other-facts
4) Run some tests: a) try taking short bursts of 3-5 shots - is the second or third shot better focused? b) try live view w/mag. and manual focus - can you do a better job than the AF? c) Boost ISO and stop down a little - is in-focus better than less noise?

With more data you will be able to decide whether its worth a trip to Canon service or time for an upgrade or if you can outsmart your camera and get good shots despite shortcomings.


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## mwhelm (Nov 12, 2014)

I've had similar problems, similar to what the thread originator
mentioned, altho I have different lenses. That it's a 60d problem
explains a lot (in a limited use of the word explain, I guess )

I am not completely convinced that it's always back focus - sometimes
it looks like it might be slightly in front. I am going to have to do some
consistent testing & noteboooking, tho, as old-pr-pix recommends.

I can definitely do a better job with manual focus & live view if I have the
time with a subject (like the moon). If you knew my eyesight that would
make you wonder.

My camera has been to Canon recently for eval (but not for this specifically),
mostly for cleaning & some minor repairs. I don't see calibration in the
list of tasks & I think they only do basic testing.



old-pr-pix said:


> As a long time 60D user I can sympathize with your situation. The lack of auto focus micro adjust on the 60D is a glaring omission. Nevertheless, some comments and questions...
> 1) Are you specifying which auto focus point to use or do you let the camera pick? If you let the camera pick it prefers subjects closer to the camera. Use center point only and learn to focus and recompose.
> 2) It sounds like your problem is back focus -- sharp focus is behind the point you told the camera to focus on. Or, did I read your comment wrong? Back focus issue tends to indicate #1 isn't what you are experiencing.
> 3) The lenses you list are all great lenses, but tend to be older designs without the latest AF closed loop technologies -- see various articles by Roger Cicala at LensRentals for example http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2010/03/this-lens-is-soft-and-other-facts
> ...


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## Marsu42 (Nov 12, 2014)

mwhelm said:


> I am not completely convinced that it's always back focus - sometimes
> it looks like it might be slightly in front. I am going to have to do some
> consistent testing & noteboooking, tho, as old-pr-pix recommends.



This is easy to find out, and if the op didn't do it already I'd recommend a tripod test phase vs. live view af to see what the result is. An afma adjustment test w/o the option to actually adjust it, so to speak.

Fyi: The 60d af has some "jitter", you see it if you re-af one the very same spot again and again. For best af results, focus to infinity or very far away, then on the subject - once. There's some lensrentals article on that as far as I remember.


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## Plainsman (Nov 12, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> Hendan said:
> 
> 
> > Since you're wondering, my lenses are (all Canon) 35 1.4, 50 1.4, 85 1.8. The issue seems consistent across all of them.
> ...



...or buy the 50D (real bargain)...or sell the lot and switch makes. 

It was the most stupid thing Canon ever did to deny the the 60D AFMA - marketing nonsense.


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## Marsu42 (Nov 12, 2014)

Plainsman said:


> It was the most stupid thing Canon ever did to deny the the 60D AFMA - marketing nonsense.



Their accounting division and Canon shareholders might disagree - no doubt Canon policy "motivates" a lot of people to buy the feature-complete model (7d, 5d) instead of the little brother (60d/70d, 6d)...


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 12, 2014)

Hendan said:


> Hi guys, I have a 60D I've used moderately over the last 3 years with quite good results, but I'm noticing something which is becoming increasingly annoying as I try to get more out of my equipment.
> 
> The short is, I seem to have focusing problems. Up close, anywhere from MFD to, maybe, 25-40 feet, I can get tack sharp images reliably (to the extent that you can get reliable anything at f/1.4..). Outside of that it seems sharpness does not exist.
> 
> ...


 
No one knows why Canon did not put AFMA on the 60D. Since the issue happens with all your lenses, you can have canon check it and bring it into factory specifications. Personally, rather than pay $300, I'd sell it on ebay listing the problem, and buy a new 70D which does have AFMA.

It isn't any benefit to send in all your lenses. Canon checks the camera against a standard and checks the lenses on a reference camera and adjusts them. That is also on a $$ per lens basis, so if only your camera needs adjusting, you will have spent hundreds of dollars .

Get the camera checked first, or sell it and upgrade.

BTW, It is true that wide aperture lenses have little tolerance for camera AF errors. With the Digital Rebels, Canon expects buyers to use kit lenses with smaller apertures and errors will be lost in depth of field. A XXD body like the 60D should have had AFMA.

Its also a possibility that there is damage to the camera, and a parts replacement is also needed. They will give you a repair quote, and you can opt out. If you have a good local camera shop, they might look at it, but will likely charge just to look.


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## Marsu42 (Nov 12, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Its also a possibility that there is damage to the camera, and a parts replacement is also needed. They will give you a repair quote, and you can opt out. If you have a good local camera shop, they might look at it, but will likely charge just to look.



Unfortunately with my cps (Berlin, Germany), it's the other way round.

The local camera shop might give you a free estimate (if you ask nicely, or you might try the next one). Canon service wants €25 (flat fee). You even have to haggle with them to make them say if it's warranty case or not for free. That's yet another reason why repairing cheap gear isn't worth it around here.


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## jdramirez (Nov 12, 2014)

Send it to Canon to pair with your lenses or drop it in the ground and hope for the best.


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