# 1DX II and DXO Mark



## dlee13 (Feb 16, 2016)

I am very interested to see how they rate the 1DXII considering they love Canon so much...


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## IglooEater (Feb 16, 2016)

If the 1dx ii is 2 stops better, it will still be less than the d810 or the a7r, but if it's three or more stops better, then dxo will re-weight there tests to put more emphasis elsewhere such as colour depth, or whatever metric canon is weak on.
If the 1dx mark ii does indeed pass Sony sensor in terms of DR, but not another metric, then suddenly no one will care about DR any more, but that other metric will be of all and end all importance. 
Edit: oh, and btw, you forgot the "I don't give a hoot" option on your poll.


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## 3kramd5 (Feb 16, 2016)

dlee13 said:


> If the 1DXII does indeed have at least 2-3 stops better DR, *will DXO still be bias [sic] in their tests*?
> *Sure, they are always fair
> *Not sure, they might or might not give a fair rating
> *DXO Mark fair? What a joke!



Yes. DXO's bias is heavily weighted towards sensor DR, and that's unlikely to change. 

If the 1DXII has 2-3 stops better low-iso DR than the 1DX (question the relevance in that target demographic), it is very likely the scores for the former will dwarf the scores for the latter, largely because of their bias.


Your poll, BTW, is flawed.

You phrase the question as if they're brand-biased (read: unfair) as opposed to parameter-biased (read: fair). So your question essentially reads "will they still be unfair," rendering the first choice inapplicable, leaving only "maybe" and "no."

Talk about bias


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## zim (Feb 16, 2016)

They won't test it, simples


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## RGF (Feb 16, 2016)

I think DXO tests are fair. The honestly measure something (repeatedly).

The key question is whether what the measurement is important in photography and under what conditions it is important. The one thing that I have seen lacking is a discussion (on DXO website) of critical values. When a score tops a value its importance is greatly diminished. For example, I hope we all would agree that S/N is important. Let's say if a camera has a value of 15 you can see the noise in a 16x24 print, but if the value is 20 or higher you can not. Then a value of 20 is "required" but anything higher really does not matter except in rare cases and for measurement purposes. And in a 8x12 print the critical value may be 15.

Well that's my $0.02


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## JMZawodny (Feb 16, 2016)

I chose not to vote. Fair or unfair is not the point. The DXO Mark scores are pretty much meaningless.


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## Frodo (Feb 16, 2016)

I agree with 3kramd5, your poll is biased and won't see my vote.

I think DXOMark's measurements are reasonably objective and hence "fair". I find that their estimates of resolution match my experience.
But they are not perfect and there are well-reported examples of lens resolution where a clearly better upgrade of a lens has resulted in a lower resolution. That happens to any company.

However, I do not agree with how they weight their measurements to give their overall score and as others have said, their weightings are not transparent. For me, DR is important, but is not overriding and is not only important at base ISO.

I think we agree that (at least until the 1DXII) Canon sensors do not have the DR of Sony sensors. So Canon sensors score lower and that winds up some people in this forum.
I'd like better DR (I'm pleased that my 6D does not show shadow banding like my 5DII did), but I'm not going to buy a Sony or Nikon just for that.
And what DXOMark does won't make me lose any sleep.


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## CaptureWhatYouSee (Feb 16, 2016)

Will the a7s still be the highest ranked Sports Camera by DXO?
That is the question...

http://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Ratings/Sports


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## Deleted member 91053 (Feb 16, 2016)

I really hope DXO tell us that the 1DX2 is wonderful! That way I know it is a pile of poo and I can save some money. If they say it is rubbish then I will simply HAVE to have one!
No sarcasm intended.


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## privatebydesign (Feb 16, 2016)

*Re: 1DX II and DXO Mar*

There is no way on earth DXO will 'be fair' that is not the game they are playing. If the 1DX MkII scores better then the proprietary scoring will be adjusted to keep them third, just like DP Review, there is something going on that we are no aware of but neither of them read right and there are countless examples of bias and downright obfusification to ignore.

Maybe with DXO it is as simple as Canon not buying their products where Nikon and Sony do, I don't know, same with DPReview, they still get access to the cameras and the managers etc, but there is a completely different and biased reporting of Canon products.

I am no tin hat wearing conspiracy theorist, I buy Canon cameras because they do the job I want them to better than the competition, I just read the reviews and reports and marvel at the unending lies half truths and drivel, I feel sorry for anybody looking for unbiased help and guidance.


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## dlee13 (Feb 16, 2016)

I have adjusted the question and poll so hopefully everyone likes it better. I'm surprised people take the poll so serious, I'm not going to print it and show it to DXO 

I agree with privatebydesign. I remember with the 35LII's rating, they ranked it lower than the 35 Art just because it stops down to f22 and suffers from diffraction. This is fair but you think it would be the top sharpness they measure, not a overall rating.


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## bluemoon (Feb 17, 2016)

dlee13 said:


> I have adjusted the question and poll so hopefully everyone likes it better. I'm surprised people take the poll so serious, I'm not going to print it and show it to DXO
> 
> I agree with privatebydesign. I remember with the 35LII's rating, they ranked it lower than the 35 Art just because it stops down to f22 and suffers from diffraction. This is fair but you think it would be the top sharpness they measure, not a overall rating.



I am with you! It is obviously a joke so I answered ats such "it will be fair!"

Pierre


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## Valvebounce (Feb 17, 2016)

Hi Folks. 
I answered don't give a hoot, if I want to see how well a camera does I look for shots taken with it in the BIF or Bird Portraits topics, I think that is more realistic and a more worthwhile use of my time! ;D

Cheers, Graham.


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## privatebydesign (Feb 17, 2016)

*Re: 1DX II and DXO Mar*



dilbert said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > There is no way on earth DXO will 'be fair' that is not the game they are playing. If the 1DX MkII scores better then the proprietary scoring will be adjusted to keep them third, just like DP Review, there is something going on that we are no aware of but neither of them read right and there are countless examples of bias and downright obfusification to ignore.
> ...



When Canon bought out the ground breaking and incredibly advanced 1DS MkIII DPReview took over 12 of them having one before they posted their 'review'.

What more proof is there than looking at the words and figures they present? Anybody with half a brain can't fail to come to the same conclusion, it is made all the more farcical when you actually engage them and they say 'we aren't biased', 'we don't say things like that', 'if you think we are biased you are just a troll or a conspiracy theorist' but just read what they write, it is a farce.

Going deeper I'd love to know what it is that Canon have or haven't done to illicit such disdain.


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## dlee13 (Feb 17, 2016)

I remember hearing that the reason Canon haven't focused on DR up until now is because they have a special formula which they shared with pro shooters which seems to be hidden to Nikon/Sony and their shooters, it's called the exposure triangle ;D

Please don't get angry, its just a joke haha. In all seriousness though, the benefits of having the DR that Sony's Exmor sensor is undeniable but in reality, the majority of people who buy and own DSLR's are just your average consumers who barely know how to get out of auto. If DR was was the most important feature, they would have lost their spot ages ago but they have stayed #1. For every 1 person I see out with a DSLR that even looks like they know when they're doing, I'll see 20 that are walking around with their rebels slung over their shoulder and pop up flash open during the middle of the day.

In Photography reviews there is a large amount of bias from all different sources, DXO Mark is certainly no exception IMO.


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## Hjalmarg1 (Feb 17, 2016)

dlee13 said:


> I am very interested to see how they rate the 1DXII considering they love Canon so much...


As usual, poor scores


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## Zv (Feb 17, 2016)

dlee13 said:


> I remember hearing that the reason Canon haven't focused on DR up until now is because they have a special formula which they shared with pro shooters which seems to be hidden to Nikon/Sony and their shooters, it's called the exposure triangle ;D
> 
> Please don't get angry, its just a joke haha. In all seriousness though, the benefits of having the DR that Sony's Exmor sensor is undeniable but in reality, the majority of people who buy and own DSLR's are just your average consumers who barely know how to get out of auto. If DR was was the most important feature, they would have lost their spot ages ago but they have stayed #1. For every 1 person I see out with a DSLR that even looks like they know when they're doing, I'll see 20 that are walking around with their rebels slung over their shoulder and pop up flash open lens hood reversed during the middle of the day.
> 
> In Photography reviews there is a large amount of bias from all different sources, DXO Mark is certainly no exception IMO.



FTFY


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## dlee13 (Feb 17, 2016)

Zv said:


> dlee13 said:
> 
> 
> > I remember hearing that the reason Canon haven't focused on DR up until now is because they have a special formula which they shared with pro shooters which seems to be hidden to Nikon/Sony and their shooters, it's called the exposure triangle ;D
> ...



Sadly that correction is correct


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## x-vision (Feb 17, 2016)

3kramd5 said:


> Yes. DXO's bias is heavily weighted towards sensor DR, and that's unlikely to change.
> 
> If the 1DXII has 2-3 stops better low-iso DR than the 1DX (question the relevance in that target demographic), it is very likely the scores for the former will dwarf the scores for the latter, largely because of their bias.



+1000

Based on the shadow-pulling example that was posted the other day, the 1DXII seems to have 2 stops better DR than the 1DX. 
So, the 1DXII will definitely get quite a bit higher DxO score than the 1DX.

The 1DXII won't be able to match the A7RII DR, though, as the A7RII has 2x the resolution - and DxO normalizes for resolution.
OTOH, I bet that 1DXII will score better than the Nikon D5. We'll see.

It's interesting to see how the upcoming 80D will fare. 
Due to expected DR improvements, it won't be all that surprising if the 80D scores higher than the 5DIII (mark my words ).
But many Canon shooters will take this as additional proof that DxO is biased. 
And it is ... but obviously not against Canon.


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