# What do you NOT like about the Canon 6D?



## Faxon (Jun 26, 2013)

Having gone back and forth between options, I am thinking a 6D is my most practical choice. ($$$). Of course, I would rather have a 5D Mk III. But that being said, what do you 6D owners find you don't like about the 6D? I really want a full frame and an upgrade to better low light...... Focus points.... well, I guess I can be OK with the few that I would get..... But day to day, in hand, what don't you like about the camera? And what do you like better than your previous camera? Is the joystick too far away for easy point selections? Etc..Currently shooting a 20D and a 40D. Want to put my 17-40 and my 100 to work for me on a full frame body.


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## hsbn (Jun 26, 2013)

On the EOS 6D right now, there is no fast/easy way to change/set the White Balance. Even my old 30D camera has a WB button where you press it, then rotate the main dial to change the WB presets.

On the 6D right now, you can customize the SET button to change IMAGE QUALITY, PICTURE STYLE, MENU, ISO (hold the set button and rotate the main dial), FLASH COMPENSATION. 

I wish Canon could include White Balance as one of the options. There are already a button for ISO and MENU, yet they're included in the option. I bet everyone who is using the 6D miss the WB button. That's the first one I notice when using the 6D.


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## AudioGlenn (Jun 26, 2013)

I owned it for 4 days and returned it. This might be an unfair comparison because I already own a 5d mk3. The worst thing for me was that it felt a little slower to focus (with the same lenses in daylight) compared to my mk3.

the other gripes I had were MINOR. I could have lived with these issues, especially if it was my only body or if I had two 6Ds. :

1) a bit more plastic feeling
2) button layout was different compared to mk3
3) SD cards are a tad bit slower than CF, also no dual card slot

Honestly, I don't think I would've felt the difference in AF speed if I wasn't a mk3 user. I hear there is a little bit of a problem with moire when doing video butI didn't bother testing it. 

I'm actually considering a T4i/T5i as a 2nd camera angle for the Auto AF during video but I'm torn because I want that feature in a FF body with a vari-angle LCD, same LP-E6 battery, and Kelvin temp WB. maybe the 70D, 7d mk2, or 6d mk2 will bring me some/all of these features!


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## jdramirez (Jun 26, 2013)

my biggest beef with it is that the peripheral auto focus points weren't cross type. and the price... it was typo high for me at the time.


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## Act444 (Jun 26, 2013)

Perhaps the biggest thing for me is somewhat mediocre AI Servo ability, even when compared to my old 60D. I would not recommend this camera for any type of action/sports shooting especially if it involves an unpredictable target. It's perfectly fine if you've a robust primary camera and have the 6D as backup or second body, but it's something to be aware of if the 6D is your ONLY camera. 

Everything else is quite solid though. You get 97% of the 5D3 image quality in a smaller, lighter, cheaper package. (The other 3% accounts for the 2 extra MP in the 5D3, which makes little difference to me in practice). In terms of IQ and high ISO performance, it leaves the 60D in the dust. No comparison. 

I bought the camera being aware of the above limitations, and if you can work around them it is a solid camera.


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## smoon65 (Jun 26, 2013)

I have had the 6D for about 3 months now and I love it. I upgraded from a 20D which I was happy with, but, was starting to have some issues due to age/overuse. 

The only thing I really don't like about the 6D is the vertical grip. It is huge and much more squared off compared to the 20D. I have medium-sized hands and the grip is nearly too big to comfortably handle. When I add a tripod quick-release or the base plate for my flash bracket it really is hard to hold. My 20D vertical grip had almost the same contour as the camera's grip but the 6D is much larger. 

Also, the photos are amazing but I have noticed moire in several videos I shot. Of course, video is something that was a bonus for me and is not something I expect to use very often.

I hope this helps.


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## Robboesan (Jun 26, 2013)

This guys has some good points regarding this topic! 
My Problems with the CANON 6D


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## madspihl (Jun 26, 2013)

I actually love this camera in every aspect apart from its weak outer focus points. They are simply not precise enough, even in really good light, and I find myself doing the old 5D Mark II focus and recompose dance, which - unfortunately - makes it super hard (for me at least) to shoot lenses at f/2 and brighter and frame the focal point off center.

But I have the 5D III as well - and that more than makes up for what the 6D lacks. Together they are a great couple.


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## Wildfire (Jun 26, 2013)

I upgraded to the 6D from the 5D Mark II late last year. Here are my thoughts on the weaknesses of this fantastic camera:

Autofocus: I have absolutely no problem with the number or spread of AF points on the 6D. My issue is with the fact that the outer points are not cross-type or -3EV sensitive like the center point is. This means that in poor light, the outer points are unreliable. I shoot in poor light about 50% of the time, so that means half of my shooting is done with the center point only. For the times when the light is good I rely on the outer points with great success.

Not Strobe Friendly: The maximum shutter speed is 1/4000s and the flash sync speed is 1/180s. This is a downgrade from the 5D Mark II (1/8000s and 1/200s). For outdoor portraits in harsh sunlight, I like to cut down on the ambient light and replace it with flash. Having an x-sync of 1/180 makes that even harder than it already is and same for the 1/4000 when using high speed sync. Additionally, the 6D lacks a PC sync port, meaning the only way to trigger off camera flash is via the hotshoe. Good luck trying to use studio strobes and on-camera TTL at the same time.

Only One Card Slot: I shoot weddings and on-location portraits. Losing a client's images because of an SD card failure is my worst nightmare. So far no problems, but I would feel much better being able to write to two cards at once. The Nikon D600 has this feature so there's no excuse for Canon to exclude it from their equivalent camera.

Other than those things, there's really not much to hate about this camera. It is absolutely fantastic and the image quality will blow you away at any ISO.


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## captainkanji (Jun 26, 2013)

I love this camera. The only thing that bothers me is the lack of wireless flash control. It was the only reason I used the pop up on my 7D


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## SambalOelek (Jun 27, 2013)

*Re: What do you NOT like about the Canon 6D? *

In descending order
[list type=decimal]
[*]Mediocre AF system. I would've been happy with 19 crosses (7D-like) or even 11 cross-type points
[*]Lack of joystick for quick direct selection of AF points
[*]Comparatively small viewfinder lacking 100% coverage
[*]I prefer CF to SD
[*]No WB button
[/list]

Apart from that, the camera is alright. IQ is about as good as it gets (for Canon).


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## Chuck Alaimo (Jun 27, 2013)

Surprised no one has asked what the intended use was for. 

I snagged a 6d a few weeks ago and so far so good. For me, it's a backup to a 5d3, so as a backup body the things that are lacking in it aren't of much worry to me. I shoot weddings and portraits and use it with confidence.


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## jd7 (Jun 27, 2013)

I have a been a 7D shooter and before that I used a 40D. A few weeks ago I put my money down on a 6D after getting sick of reading all the comments about what a step up in IQ it is from APS-C to 35mm sensor  My plan is to sell one of the 7D or 6D (I don't think I can justify having 2 DSLR bodies!) but I haven't decided which yet. Unfortunately I've been very busy in the last few weeks so haven't had a chance to do much 6D testing yet but hear are some initial reactions. Will see if my views change once I get a chance to play with the 6D more.

Things I *don't* like about the 6D:

- lack of joystick for selecting AF points. On the 7D/40D, it was easy and comfortable to select the AF point with my eye to the VF and my right hand firmly on the camera and ready to take a photo. With the 6D I have to relax the grip on the camera with my right hand so I can move my thumb down to the D-pad to select an AF point, then move my thumb back up to the AF-ON button to AF (I prefer back button focus to using a half press of the shutter button). It's slow and uncomfortable and more likely to lead to the camera being dropped - and it's hard to be confident you're getting your thumb in the right place when you're eye is to the VF although perhaps with practice that will cease to be an issue. My initial reaction is this is one of my greatest complaints about the 6D.

- so far the AF system feels a real step down from the 7D in relation to (a) tracking moving targets, (b) limited number of AF points means focusing on an off-centre subject when shooting with very shallow DOF is a problem, (c) speed/accuracy of the AF points other than the centre point (although I'm very impressed with the centre point!). I really don't feel like I've investigated the 6D's AF enough yet and tested it in real world shooting to be sure of my opinions about it though. I do see others saying the 6D AF really isn't that bad in the real world once you get to know it and set it up properly.

- lower maximum FPS: I do sometimes shoot sports/action, and occasionally have a go at BIF, and I know there would be times when the step down from 8 FPS to 4.5 FPS would bug me. However I don't do that sort of shooting very often really so I'll need to decide how big a deal this is for me in practice. It may depend in part on what I decide about the AF - the real question may be about how many "keepers" (in terms of focus) I can expect when shooting a moving target.

- fewer functions available via the buttons on the top of the camera (because it's one function per button rather than 2 as it is on 7D/40D). I'd prefer to have FEC and WB available that way, but not sure how much this is really going to bother me.

- button layout on the back of the camera - I preferred having a column of buttons on the left side of the rear screen because it means easy two handed operation of the system of buttons plus direct access to a few more functions. Again, not sure how much this is really going to bother me.

- lack of built in flash. Yes I know how much better an external flash (and better yet, off camera flash) is, but sometimes when travelling around I like to have a built in flash for a bit of fill flash - it can be a lot better than nothing.

- lack of wireless flash trigger. Of course you can add one, but it's more money to spend and another gadget to carry. If I keep the 6D, I dare say I'll spring for some Yongnuo 622C transceivers and see how they go. The Canon RT flash gear sounds great but it's more money than I want to spend right now.

- lower X-sync speed - although again I'm not sure how much this is really going to bother me in practice. (There's also the issue of shutter speed limit being 1/4000 instead of 1/8000 but to be honest I doubt that's going to bother me at all.)

Things I *do* like about the 6D

- little bit smaller and lighter - I like the feel of it, especially with a small-ish / light-ish prime lens on it ... 6D + 40 2.8 does make a pretty compact little package. That said, I do want to test more with bigger/lenses to see what the balance is like. Haven't yet put my 70-200 2.8 IS on it, but I will!

- assuming it gets focus (via AF or manual) it does produce very nice images. That said, I have to say I was a little underwhelmed at first - I didn't see the big jump up in IQ I was expecting, even at ISO 6400. Putting RAW images through LR4, I have to say I feel like I may not have given my 7D as much credit as it deserved for its IQ at higher ISOs. Don't get me wrong, the 6D is definitely a step up - and of course it goes to (usable) ISOs which the 7D simply doesn't have - but I've been surprised at what I could do with the 7D images with a bit of PP. I dare say a professional may be harsher on the 7D images than I am. Anyway, I want to do a lot more testing in varying lighting conditions before I come to any real conclusions. I have recently taken a few photos of people in more subtle lighting conditions and feel like there really was a very noticeable jump in IQ. They weren't very "scientific" tests so I will do more, but it makes me think I might come around to the IQ being a substantial step up.

- ability to get shallower DOF ... although again, so far I haven't found this as noticeable as I thought I might. More testing required though!

- for some reason I'm liking using lenses at their 35mm FOV - not sure if that is just psychological though! On my 7D I often use a Canon 28 1.8 as a small/light walk around lens and it's fine, but I'm enjoying using my Sigma 50 1.4 and Canon 40 2.8 in that role with the 6D. Will see if it's just a novelty which wears off. (By the way, to anyone with an APS-C sensor camera, I'd say definitely consider adding a 28 1.8 to your kit if you don't have one. It's not perfect but I think it gives pretty good results for a small, light, fairly cheap lens. Anyway, that's a whole other topic.)

As for the bells and whistles - GPS and wifi - I haven't played with them yet. Can't say I feel excited by either, personally, and I really doubt I'll make use of the GPS given it drains battery. Will give the wifi function a go one of these days, no doubt. My overwhelming feeling is I'd prefer Canon had included a flash and/or remote flash trigger than GPS and wifi, but no doubt not everyone will feel the same about that.

So, at the moment I'd say the 7D is the more "complete" all round camera but for me the question remains whether the 6D offers IQ benefits (and slight weight/size benefits - I use my camera a lot when travelling) which outweigh its "real world" limitations for my use. My biggest concerns about the 6D are the lack of joystick and the AF. Btw, for my use = "general purpose" camera for portraits (candid more often than posed/studio style), street, landscape, family events and some sports/action. Might try macro one of these days.

Will see how I feel after a few more weeks of playing with the 6D!


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## extremeinstability (Jun 27, 2013)

I use autofocus likely less than 1% of the time I use the camera, so can't say much about that. What I do use a lot and have used a lot is live view 10x manual focusing. I want tack sharp and well the eyes ain't going to cut it. It can be such a tiny ass move on some of these lenses where it is soft or sharp. I swap out lenses back and forth frequently and it's often night stuff too. The way they decided to run the live view zoom in, as well as picture review zoom in, has driven me completely nuts being so used to how it really always has been on others. Live view zoom in you push the live view then hit the magnify button twice, no more plus minus buttons upper right back. And then on stills to zoom into those after the fact, hit play then magnify button but now you must spin the wheel to zoom in. Pretty tough to get used to with them being different methods from each other and both different than how it has been. Will eventually get used to it but so far I waste a lot of time with it. 

It being an utter high ISO beast besting the 5D III makes it worth the hassle to get used to though.


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## Maso (Jun 27, 2013)

Bought a 6D to upgrade my 7D but decided to keep the 7D.

What to NOT like... The AF is not as good as the 7D but if you use the camera for what it's designed (Portraits, Landscapes, not sports), then the AF is really fine.

My main gripe is a little thing they should sort out with Firmware - some functions (HDR and something else) can't be used when wi-fi is switched on, so if you try to select them you either can't, or it gives you message telling you. I think a much better implementation would be to switch wi-fi off automatically when you select the functions or give you a prompt to switch off so you don't have to go right back through the menus to do it.

Also, the GPS stays on when the camera is switched off which significantly drains the battery. Better, I think, would be for the camera to use its built in accelerometer to switch on the camera or the GPS allowing it to switch off when not in motion. Basically, if you forget to force off the GPS through the menus, then the battery will drain in a few days.

Lack of wireless flash is a bit of a loss when I'm used to it on my 7D, but if you have two or more speedlights, then this isn't a problem.

And why oh why do they insist on restricting long exposure to 30 seconds, especially when there's an iPhone app to control the camera? And why no built in intervalometer: not in the iPhone app either" But this is the same with all Canons.

And I do miss the joystick from the 7D. A bit.

Everything else is great and I love the camera.


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## Andy_Hodapp (Jun 27, 2013)

Just went to Costco yesterday and got my hands on the 6D. While I would have loved to have its sensor instead of the one in my 5D MKII, the build quality just didn't feel nearly as good as the 5D. My 5D took a good 2-3 foot drop from my tripod onto rock with only a small scratch on the top plate, with the 6D's plastic top plate, I am pretty sure it would have just cracked. Also the 60D style buttons are terrible, after using the 5D's joystick and wheel, I can't imagine using that terrible system. Then again, I went for the 5D just as the 6D was coming out.


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## x-vision (Jun 27, 2013)

For me, it's two things:

*AF points*
As another posted said, even 11 all cross-type points would have been OK. 
Right now, the 6D AF system is a 1-point AF system, as far as I'm concerned. 
Not OK on a $2000 camera but still not a deal breaker, as the 6D can be found for $1600. So, still OK.

*Button layout on the back of the camera*
That's actually the big one for me and _the _deal breaker. 
If it wasn't for the button layout, the 6D is essentially a newer, more compact version of the 5DII - with better image quality and a lower price tag. What's there not to like about it.
But the stupid button layout at the back - together with the stupid limitations like the lower x-sync and max-shutter speeds - ruin it for me.
I'll just never purchase a camera with this button layout. 
If I have to endure horrible ergonomics, I might as well buy a Nikon  8).


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## Otara (Jun 27, 2013)

Own a 6d. As others have said the af points are the biggest pain, ie only the middle one really being useful.

Control layout annoying but that's more because its so different to my 7d.

Overall very happy with it though, particularly given the price jump to a 5d 3.


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## M.ST (Jun 27, 2013)

no CF card slot, shutter durability, AF system, body quality


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## bholliman (Jun 27, 2013)

I bought my 6D when they were first released in December. Previous bodies were a T2i (550D) and 7D. I really love this camera! I'm very happy with the image quality and low light / high ISO performance. I really like the size and layout of controls. At first I didn't like the layout and lack of a joystick, but after I got used to the layout, I prefer the 6D controls to the 7D controls.

I do wish the focus points were spread out more and/or there were more of them. Having more cross-type points would be nice also, but I understood the AF limitations vs. the 5D3 when I made the purchase. For what I shoot (mostly family, kids, landscapes, vacations, portraits) the AF system is certainly good enough. I expect to be very happy with this camera for some time.


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## WillThompson (Jun 27, 2013)

It is not a 1DX! :'(


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## bholliman (Jun 27, 2013)

captainkanji said:


> I love this camera. The only thing that bothers me is the lack of wireless flash control. It was the only reason I used the pop up on my 7D



I addressed the lack of a pop up flash on the 6D with an inexpensive Speedlite 90EX ($130) which I use as a wireless master for my two 430EXII's. It also provides enough light to provide fill flash in some situations.

http://www.learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2012/eos6d_builtin_flash_alternative.shtml


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## bholliman (Jun 27, 2013)

Andy_Hodapp said:


> Just went to Costco yesterday and got my hands on the 6D. While I would have loved to have its sensor instead of the one in my 5D MKII, the build quality just didn't feel nearly as good as the 5D. My 5D took a good 2-3 foot drop from my tripod onto rock with only a small scratch on the top plate, with the 6D's plastic top plate, I am pretty sure it would have just cracked. Also the 60D style buttons are terrible, after using the 5D's joystick and wheel, I can't imagine using that terrible system. Then again, I went for the 5D just as the 6D was coming out.


The top portion of the 6D is made from engineering plastic (very tough) instead of metal to allow the built in WiFi and GPS to function. Actually, the camera is very well built. A friend of mine who is a wedding photographer has two 6D's (and two 5D3's) and one of the 6D's was dropped by an assistant onto a concrete floor from a step ladder approximately 9 feet in the air and it came away with just a tiny dent in bottom corner - otherwise worked fine. The 24-70 lens that was attached didn't fare as well however...

Regarding the control layout, at first I didn't particularly like the 6D controls and missed the joystick from my 7D, but after some use, I came to prefer the 6D layout to the 7D. I can't comment on the control layout of the 6D compared to the 5D2 however, as I've only had limited experience with a 5D2. Each photographer will have their own preference in this area.


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## dgatwood (Jun 27, 2013)

hsbn said:


> On the EOS 6D right now, there is no fast/easy way to change/set the White Balance. Even my old 30D camera has a WB button where you press it, then rotate the main dial to change the WB presets.



I may have to buy this camera just because of that. On both my 300D and my XTi, I keep discovering that somehow my hand accidentally bumped the thing into manual white balance mode with some horrible setting like "Tungsten"... after I've shot about fifty shots.

Of course, these days, I shoot RAW, so it's less obnoxious, but still annoying.


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## t.light (Jun 27, 2013)

I just sit here and work on 3000 pictures from my first travel to cambodia with the 6D... 
- AF needs some practice, but accuracy is fair for most of the situations. Sure it´s not a 5D III...
- I would like to see some auto-off option for the GPS, cause it drains the battery even when turned off

I found the weather sealing pretty effective (had two times tropical rain and the camera was soaking wet) and the sensor cleaning is doing a good job too. After one month heavy-duty I still find no spots.


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## Chosenbydestiny (Jun 27, 2013)

hsbn said:


> On the EOS 6D right now, there is no fast/easy way to change/set the White Balance. Even my old 30D camera has a WB button where you press it, then rotate the main dial to change the WB presets.
> 
> On the 6D right now, you can customize the SET button to change IMAGE QUALITY, PICTURE STYLE, MENU, ISO (hold the set button and rotate the main dial), FLASH COMPENSATION.
> 
> I wish Canon could include White Balance as one of the options. There are already a button for ISO and MENU, yet they're included in the option. I bet everyone who is using the 6D miss the WB button. That's the first one I notice when using the 6D.



+1 All it should take is a firmware update to make WB changes faster. Other than that and better outer points I understand why they had to place the 6D where it is in terms of price and features


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## Marsu42 (Jun 27, 2013)

Faxon said:


> Having gone back and forth between options, I am thinking a 6D is my most practical choice. ($$$).



Here's what comes to my mind and hasn't been mentioned. No, I don't expect a 1dx for the (still healthy) 6d price, but some things would have needed zero or low cost and are there for product differentiation only:


crippled fw: hdr is only jpeg
crippled fw: afaik you cannot save the hdr source files
crippled fw: low max shutter speed and != max. x-sync
strong video moiré
less sharp than 5d2 @low iso
only 1-level electronic level
no swivel screen for video/tripod & protection
no headphone jack
placement of dof preview is a joke
no f8 af with Canon tc
only 2 c-modes
battery grip doesn't have multicontroller

... plus the previously mentioned points:


no x-point sensor @f2.8, only center @f4
small af point spread
cannot use the precison of new Canon lenses
only 1/180s x-sync
only 1/4000 shutter
no dual card slots
short shutter durability
no built-in flash (it's a consumer camera after all)
no dual button layout
still rather low fps
no 100% vf
no pc sync
no uncompressed hdmi out

... plus my personal with-list that even the 5d3 hasn't:


faster contrast af like Rebel 700d
af indicator in servo
spot linked to af point
built-in af assist beam like Nikon
built-in rt flash master

Disclaimer: Please don't reprimand me, The 6d is a very good camera for some uses hand has lots of features over the 5d2, see my list here: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=11309.0


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## Malte_P (Jun 27, 2013)

compared to a 1D X it looks a bit small on a 800mm f5.6


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## Malte_P (Jun 27, 2013)

Andy_Hodapp said:


> Just went to Costco yesterday and got my hands on the 6D. While I would have loved to have its sensor instead of the one in my 5D MKII, the build quality just didn't feel nearly as good as the 5D. My 5D took a good 2-3 foot drop from my tripod onto rock with only a small scratch on the top plate, with the 6D's plastic top plate, I am pretty sure it would have just cracked.



yeah well you are wrong.

you can drop a 550D or any rebel from 3m on a wood floor and the plastic will not crack or anything. it was tested often enough. just saw a video this week where they dropped a rebel from 4 foot and more on a concrete sidewalk.

get some infos about the pastic (i don´t know the english name) used for canon cameras. 
it´s pretty sturdy stuff.

way more likely the displays will break in such a case then the plastic.

or buy a cheap old analog EOS on ebay and do a few tests.
2-3 foot are nothing for a body.

the attached lens...well that´s a different story.


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## LifeAfter (Jun 27, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> Faxon said:
> 
> 
> > Having gone back and forth between options, I am thinking a 6D is my most practical choice. ($$$).
> ...



+1 for all

and you're right about Commercial differentiation. Anyway i think we pay enough the 5DIII for not having:

Spot-meter linked to other focus points
SD card speed! a joke
SHUTTER DURABILITY JOKE

I don't want to start the 5D III vs D800 war again, but comercially the D800 gives A LOT more for the money, it costs less and has allmost all what we mentioned here.

Concerning the 6D, its the same, we pay more that it has comparing the D600 (24mp, more AF Points + cross...etc)


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## Janbo Makimbo (Jun 27, 2013)

The thing I dislike the most is the people who bought this camera and do nothing but whine about it. I am pretty sure nobody put a gun to their heads to force them to buy it.

The specs for the camera were widely known, why would you buy a camera and then moan about the the focus points, i upgraded from a 7D and was fully aware that the 6D had fewer focussing points and only ONE cross type..... needless to say that is not why I bought the camera. i wanted full frame and I got full frame, I also wanted wifi and gps which I got.

Just get on with it!!


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## Malte_P (Jun 27, 2013)

Janbo Makimbo said:


> The thing I dislike the most is the people who bought this camera and do nothing but whine about it. I am pretty sure nobody put a gun to their heads to force them to buy it.
> 
> The specs for the camera were widely known, why would you buy a camera and then moan about the the focus points, i upgraded from a 7D and was fully aware that the 6D had fewer focussing points and only ONE cross type..... needless to say that is not why I bought the camera. i wanted full frame and I got full frame, I also wanted wifi and gps which I got.
> 
> Just get on with it!!



well IF they bought it...

most complains are from people who have never touched it or pretend they have used it... but never have.

all 6D owners i know are very happy with it.

but then, they are not people who are visiting internet forums to talk about cameras and boast about their gear in sweeping signatures.


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## Malte_P (Jun 27, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> less sharp than 5d2 @low iso





depends on the reviews you read.

some say 2-3% less, some say 2-3% more spatial resolution.

but yes it´s a big deal.... :


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## Ladislav (Jun 27, 2013)

It is all about expectations. For 5D users the 6D will be downgrade in many aspects because it was never designed to compete with 5D product line. If you own 5D2 the supposed upgrade is 5D3. For xxD and xxxD / Rebel users the 6D is a great upgrade (I'm among them). It also wasn't designed to compete with 7D product line in terms of AF. 

Before I bought 6D I took its marketing materials from Canon and they were all about "travelers camera". My impression is that it is not camera designed for taking video or shoting sport/wildlife - you can still do that but there are better cameras for that. That should explain why its video capability and AF system are mediocore (even I would enjoy at least 9 cross AF points from T4i).

I like my 6D a lot. It was great upgrade from T4i (650D). What I didn't like was a price. I found it quite expensive for enthusiast camera but bought it anyway. My biggest complain goes to DOF preview button which is too small and it is placed on completely idiotic position. Also custom setting doesn't allow me reconfigure buttons to have DOF preview elsewhere.


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## TWI by Dustin Abbott (Jun 27, 2013)

I have very few disappointments with the 6D. I bought it with my eyes open. Sure, I would like the AF to be more robust, but it works fine for me and that isn't going to change. What can change and should change is the firmware around the GPS. Right now for me it means manually turning it on and off...or leaving it on to put a continual drain on the battery. Make a firmware change that allows for more options, specifically to either turn on or off with the camera, or, even better, to shut down at various optional times after the camera is powered down (5-10 minutes, for example).


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## jd7 (Jun 27, 2013)

> Regarding the control layout, at first I didn't particularly like the 6D controls and missed the joystick from my 7D, but after some use, I came to prefer the 6D layout to the 7D.



These sorts of quotes give me hope I'll come around to the 6D's controls yet. Right now I find it hard to imagine ever liking it as much as the joystick and wheel system found on the 7D, but will see how I go in time.


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## Etienne (Jun 27, 2013)

A friend of mine has the 6D. The battery drains overnight even with the power off. He sent it to Canon and they upgraded the firmware and then said that they could not reproduce the problem.

It worked properly for a couple of weeks, but now it's doing it again. He can't leave the battery in the camera without it draining in a day or two, even with the power switch shut off.

Has anyone else heard of this problem?

PS... too late to return it.


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## Malte_P (Jun 27, 2013)

Ladislav said:


> . My biggest complain goes to DOF preview button which is too small and it is placed on completely idiotic position. Also custom setting doesn't allow me reconfigure buttons to have DOF preview elsewhere.



to be honest for me the DOF preview is the most useless feature on my cameras.

imho the viewfinder does not show a real impression of the DOF anyway.. yes even with the DOF button pressed.

i first noticed this with a 50mm f1.8.
wide open at f1.8 the images looked way more out of focus then they did via the viewfinder.

and when i press the DOF button i can hardly get something usefull from it either.
that´s why i use the display for reviewing the DOF.

but i must say i don´t shoot sports. maybe it´s more usefull there.
when you need quick reaction more then proper planing.


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## Malte_P (Jun 27, 2013)

Etienne said:


> A friend of mine has the 6D. The battery drains overnight even with the power off. He sent it to Canon and they upgraded the firmware and then said that they could not reproduce the problem.
> 
> It worked properly for a couple of weeks, but now it's doing it again. He can't leave the battery in the camera without it draining in a day or two, even with the power switch shut off.
> 
> ...



GPS on?

otherwise no.. never heard of that problem.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 27, 2013)

Malte_P said:


> to be honest for me the DOF preview is the most useless feature on my cameras.
> 
> imho the viewfinder does not show a real impression of the DOF anyway.. yes even with the DOF button pressed.
> 
> ...



The DoF Preview button does nothing when shooting wide open - focusing and looking through the VF is done with the lens wide open, the DoF preview is intended to show you the DoF when the lens is stopped down to something narrower than wide open.

But you're right about the fast prime - the focus screen that comes in all current cameras is a compromise screen designed for slower lenses. They're laser microetched to brighten the VF, and the consequence is that you see the DoF of approximately f/2.8 even with a faster lens. For some cameras, the stock focus screen can be easily swapped out for one that shows the true DoF of a fast prime (Ec-S, Eg-S, etc.), and that makes manually focusing with such a lens much easier. The tradeoff is that if you use one of those screens with an f/4 or f/5.6 lens, the VF is pretty dark.


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## Malte_P (Jun 27, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> Malte_P said:
> 
> 
> > to be honest for me the DOF preview is the most useless feature on my cameras.
> ...



if you read more carefully you will notice i know that. 

i said i FIRST noticed that the viewfinder does not show the correct DOF when *i shoot wide open. * 

shoot wide open -> focusing apperture = shooting apperture.

the *image i see in the viewfinder * looks not as much out of focus *as the image shoot at f1.8.*

i don´t care much why (perception i guess) but it makes the VF pretty useless for me to judge DOF.

when stopped down the difference between the DOF i see in the viewfinder (with pressed DOF button) and the image DOF i see on the monitor is not that big anymore. 
but i still prefer the display for making sure my DOF is how i like it.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 27, 2013)

Malte_P said:


> if you read more carefully you will notice i know that.
> 
> i said i FIRST noticed that the viewfinder does not show the correct DOF when *i shoot wide open. *



Yes, I read carefully. You stated, "the viewfinder does not show a real impression of the DOF anyway.. yes *even with the DOF button pressed*....i first noticed this with a 50mm f1.8...wide open at f1.8." That statement suggests you think the DOF Preview button should do something with the aperture set to wide open, and I pointed out that the DoF Preview button has *no effect* with the aperture set wide open.

Apologies for explaining the reason behind something which you apparently know (even if that understanding is somewhat incomplete)...but I suspect that not everyone knows that the stock focus screen shows the DoF of ~f/2.8 even with a faster lens. Even though you don't care why, someone else reading this might, especially since there is a simple and cheap solution to the problem you describe, even if you don't care to implement it - the 6D is one of those cameras where the stock focus screen can be user-swapped for the Eg-S screen that does show the true DoF of a fast prime like your 50/1.8.


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## PKinDenmark (Jun 27, 2013)

I decided in April for the 6D - to replace my old and trusted 450D - after serious considerations.
I expected big improvements, and I must say, that I am absolutely happy with that decision. 
My pictures have so much more intensity and quality with 6D.

I like almost all about the camera. This includes all the improvements that come with FF, with newer technology, high ISO capability etc. etc. 
I also like the size and weight (compared to the FF alternatives). 
I like the build and the handling very much. 
I like the responsiveness - and am delighted with the low-noise shooting.
I find the WiFi very useful - for remote shooting and for reviewing pictures. 


The AF capabilities represent an significant upgrade for me, and I knew what not to expect. So I will not complain about it (though you could always dream that it had 1DX-like AF). 
To me the AFMA was a great improvement. I have made (small) adjustments for all my lenses - some of these absolutely makes a difference. 

What I miss (although I knew about it, so it was deliberately included in my decision): 
- flexible screen - I loved that on my old G5, and still miss it
- built in flash-trigger
- the added 1.6* reach of crop (that is more than compensated by quality and resolution in my files)

I hope to see Canon improve the Firmware to allow: 
- practical use of GPS without draining battery
- allow AF at F/8 (would love to use 2* TC with my 70-200 f/4)


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## AcutancePhotography (Jun 27, 2013)

I was disappointed when I learned that the RF wireless system on the 6D can't be used to control OCF units. But despite that, I will still buy one. Sounds like a good camera. It is not the best camera that Canon makes, but I don't think anyone is claiming that it is.


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## CarlTN (Jun 27, 2013)

Janbo Makimbo said:


> The thing I dislike the most is the people who bought this camera and do nothing but whine about it. I am pretty sure nobody put a gun to their heads to force them to buy it.
> 
> The specs for the camera were widely known, why would you buy a camera and then moan about the the focus points, i upgraded from a 7D and was fully aware that the 6D had fewer focussing points and only ONE cross type..... needless to say that is not why I bought the camera. i wanted full frame and I got full frame, I also wanted wifi and gps which I got.
> 
> Just get on with it!!



+1 !!!!!


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## Etienne (Jun 27, 2013)

Malte_P said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > A friend of mine has the 6D. The battery drains overnight even with the power off. He sent it to Canon and they upgraded the firmware and then said that they could not reproduce the problem.
> ...



GPS and wireless is off. Even the main power switch is off, so it shouldn't matter what the GPS and wireless are doing.


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## CarlTN (Jun 27, 2013)

Faxon said:


> Having gone back and forth between options, I am thinking a 6D is my most practical choice. ($$$). Of course, I would rather have a 5D Mk III. But that being said, what do you 6D owners find you don't like about the 6D? I really want a full frame and an upgrade to better low light...... Focus points.... well, I guess I can be OK with the few that I would get..... But day to day, in hand, what don't you like about the camera? And what do you like better than your previous camera? Is the joystick too far away for easy point selections? Etc..Currently shooting a 20D and a 40D. Want to put my 17-40 and my 100 to work for me on a full frame body.



I have questions for you, rather than the other way around. Why would you rather have a 5D3? Have you tried one? What type of photography do you do, and how much of it is professional? How much of it is with a flashgun? How often do you shoot above ISO 1000, and how critical is that to you? Do you like grain (luminance noise) in your photographs?

In my opinion, the only reason to have a 5D3, is to make full use of it's autofocus sensor and the extra 2 frames per second over the 6D (which is not all that much difference alone, but the 5D3's autofocus sensor's ability is certainly stellar compared to all other Canon bodies other than of course the 1DX). 

So if you mostly shoot on a supertelephoto lens, and you are shooting sporting events professionally and critically...then the 5D3 is an inexpensive alternative to the 1DX, and should be bought instead of the 6D.

If however, you don't really fit into the above criteria, and you are just wanting the 5D3 for the bling factor of having one, then don't waste your money. Put that money toward more and better lenses.

To answer your thread title's question...the only things I don't like about the 6D, are the inferior (perhaps intentially handicapped) video ability due to moire (compared to the 5D3), and the single card slot only using an SDHC card.

That said, I don't think the 6D really needs a CF card slot, unless you are mostly shooting video with it (and especially if ML ever hacks the 6D to enable RAW video capability...which they just might not ever do.)

I do like most everything about the 6D. The grip and ergonomics are better than my 50D (which I promptly sold), and the body is also lighter and every bit as rigid as the 50D. I don't miss the joy stick at all, nor having most of the buttons on the left (on the 50D they were along the bottom). I also prefer the 6D to the feel and ergonomics of all other Canon and Nikon cameras, all of which I have at least played with in a store, if not rented, or tried those of my relative. The 1DX is a fantastic camera, but it is very heavy. If you ever got used to holding it, everything else would feel too small and light like a toy.

There are those who don't like the ergonomics or various other aspects of the 6D. As others have said, that's fine...then don't buy one, or sell it and buy something else.

I feel the 6D is the best overall camera Canon has ever made. The main reason being they were able to deliver world class image quality, and bring it to a price point that is very reasonable....as compared to most of their recent L lenses. Although they seem to be the best lenses in the world, the price reflects that. Certainly those lenses are worth owning, but they are an extreme luxury now.


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## x-vision (Jun 27, 2013)

Malte_P said:


> most complains are from people who have never touched it or pretend they have used it... but never have.
> all 6D owners i know are very happy with it.



Those who bought the 6D were obviously OK with the modest 6D specs before their purchase.
Otherwise, they wouldn't think that the 6D was worth buying.

As for those complaining about the 6D:
I bet that most complaints are from people who are actually itching to spend $2000 on a FF camera - but are not happy with what the 6D is offering for the money.


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## CarlTN (Jun 27, 2013)

x-vision said:


> Malte_P said:
> 
> 
> > most complains are from people who have never touched it or pretend they have used it... but never have.
> ...



I disagree, because there is no other full frame camera which exceeds the 6D's overall performance and quality, for the money. And what's best about the money, is it's not $2000 anymore. Mine was $1760 three months ago, and apparently prices continue to fall. For the $1600 range, there just is nothing, and never will be anything else that can get close to the 6D's overall performance and image quality, in my opinion. Whatever else comes down the pike in the future, it won't cost $1600. It will have an intro price at least in the $3000 range, before falling to the mid $2000 range. 

The D600 is fine if you like the Nikon system and ergonomics (which are absurd)...and if you only shoot below ISO 1600 or so...such as with flashgun or strobes, or long exposure tripod photography outdoors, etc. In other words, if you feel you absolutely _must_ have those extra 200 or so pixels on each side of the width of the image, and the few extra along the height of the image (such as for low ISO landscape, etc.)...and you know how to make use of them. Then by all means, adopt the Nikon system and buy a D600, or else save some more money and buy the D800 or D800E.

Their sensors have more DR at low ISO. Most of the photography I do, even the professional part, is around ISO 1000 and above. The 6D needs no noise reduction of any kind at ISO 1000. At that level of "gain", it has about the same noise as my 50D had at ISO 200. And the 6D's processing of detail and contrast in the RAW files, is just outstanding. The detail belies the mere 20 MP of resolution.


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## Andy_Hodapp (Jun 27, 2013)

bholliman said:


> Andy_Hodapp said:
> 
> 
> > Just went to Costco yesterday and got my hands on the 6D. While I would have loved to have its sensor instead of the one in my 5D MKII, the build quality just didn't feel nearly as good as the 5D. My 5D took a good 2-3 foot drop from my tripod onto rock with only a small scratch on the top plate, with the 6D's plastic top plate, I am pretty sure it would have just cracked. Also the 60D style buttons are terrible, after using the 5D's joystick and wheel, I can't imagine using that terrible system. Then again, I went for the 5D just as the 6D was coming out.
> ...



Good to know about the durability, I only had my hands on it for 5 minutes tops. Agreed about the ergonomics, if I had gone from my T1i to the 6D, I think it would be a different story on how I feel about them.


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## Etienne (Jun 27, 2013)

CarlTN said:


> Faxon said:
> 
> 
> > Having gone back and forth between options, I am thinking a 6D is my most practical choice. ($$$). Of course, I would rather have a 5D Mk III. But that being said, what do you 6D owners find you don't like about the 6D? I really want a full frame and an upgrade to better low light...... Focus points.... well, I guess I can be OK with the few that I would get..... But day to day, in hand, what don't you like about the camera? And what do you like better than your previous camera? Is the joystick too far away for easy point selections? Etc..Currently shooting a 20D and a 40D. Want to put my 17-40 and my 100 to work for me on a full frame body.
> ...



I bought the 5DIII, my buddy bought the 6D. The 6D seems like a good camera, and I have used it a bit, but the 5DIII is worth the extra money.
The 5DIII ergonomics are much better, the menus are easier to navigate, there's more customizability, the camera is built like a tank. The AF rocks, dual cards is great (both CF and SD), and the video is far superior to the 6D. There are more exceptional points. 
The 5DIII is the best value all-around FF camera made to date, in my opinion.

That doesn't mean the 6D is a bad camera, and I would consider buying one. But, with the exception of ultra-low-light auto-focus, it just can't compete with the 5DIII on any playing field.


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## viclewchenko (Jun 27, 2013)

Etienne said:


> Malte_P said:
> 
> 
> > Etienne said:
> ...



Which lens do you have attached? I've had my 6D since December and only saw this problem twice, recently after purchasing a Tamron 24-70 2.8 (power was switched off). Both times I had the Tamron lens attached and found the battery completely drained in the morning. I have never seen this with any other lens attached (Canon 24-105, 70 - 200)


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## Etienne (Jun 27, 2013)

viclewchenko said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > Malte_P said:
> ...



Thanks for the tip! 
He does use the Tamron 24-70 2.8 IS. I asked him to try different lenses, as well as leaving it with no lens attached. He is away for another week or so, but I'll pass on your experience. The lens may well be the problem!


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## CarlTN (Jun 27, 2013)

Etienne said:


> CarlTN said:
> 
> 
> > Faxon said:
> ...



I hope we can agree to disagree, because I disagree with most everything you said. I have certainly tried the 5D3. The feel, the width, the balance...it just feels off compared to the 6D. The 6D can certainly compete with the 5D3 in every regard...very closely. The video from the 6D is certainly nice enough to use, but not in a setting where textures would upset the moire.

I agree the 5D3 is probably worth most of the extra money in its price. But only if you are truly going to make use of the AF sensor. The 6D has superior image quality above ISO 1600 or so.

The AF ability of the 6D in servo mode, gives up very little to the 5D3 in most situations. You really need a supertelephoto lens in a fast professional sports situation, to realize the extra speed and focus ability of the 5D3. And even then, you will not get but maybe 20% more of the total shots in focus, than the 6D would.  It's just that you are getting an extra 30% shots in the time frame to begin with.

In practical terms though, 6 fps is not that much faster than 4.5. It really starts to make a difference when the fps goes to 8, or especially 10. 

The faster flash sync of the 5D3, besides the AF sensor, are really the reason to buy the 5D3. Anyone who shoots a lot of flashgun images or with strobes in a professional setting, should certainly buy the 5D3.


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## Etienne (Jun 27, 2013)

CarlTN said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > CarlTN said:
> ...



Of course it comes down to personal preferences, and I think the 6D is a good value camera, but for me the 5DIII is worth the extra. There are many reasons in my opinion. I had a 5DII before the 5DIII, and I came to loath moire, which is the same on the 6D, and almost totally absent on the 5DIII (what a relief!). The video implementation is also great. The video switch is really useful, the 3 Custom functions allow easy full-auto setup to full manual video readiness. Switching between photography and video (with all the right settings ready to go) is actually nearly effortless with the 5DIII, whereas the 5DII (and 6D) it is not so easy. There's an audio out for headphones, and even soft-touch audio change and other settings for silent adjustments while filming. The list of differences between the 6D and 5DIII is quite long. If I wasn't interested in video, action/sports shots, and very high ruggedness, I probably would consider the 6D. 

I must emphasize that I don't think the 6D is a bad choice at all. It's just that you do get your money's worth with the 5DIII ... if you use and appreciate the extra features of course.


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## CarlTN (Jun 27, 2013)

Etienne said:


> CarlTN said:
> 
> 
> > Etienne said:
> ...



My point was not that different from yours. But I don't have any problem going back and forth between shooting video and stills on the 6D. It's one switch, can do it in a fraction of a second. As for monitoring the levels, it's not all that necessary, the auto level works fine on my 6D.

But shooting video, is only of casual importance to me right now. 

If video was my primary purpose, I would have a 5D3 and use the RAW video hack. I would also consider a cinema camera with EF mount. If the current lineup of cinema cameras does not fit the bill, the way things are going, there will certainly be a future cinema camera that can compete with, if not beat, the 5D3's RAW video ability for a similar price, or at least within 50% of the price. I am willing to bet there might even be a 4k cinema camera with superb performance for under $6.5k in the next year or so. Whether or not it's a Canon, is in doubt.

I had a look at a large 4K tv in a store last week. That's where the future is. Mind-blowing detail! Of course, if you don't shoot with closed down aperture, you could never produce such detail all over the field of view. Most of the best HD content, such as Discovery channel's best, is shot in this way (with only the wildlife high speed closeups showing shallow DOF due to the fast telephoto lenses necessary, or desired for the shot). Of course they are using the world's best cinema cameras...


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## x-vision (Jun 27, 2013)

CarlTN said:


> I disagree, because there is no other full frame camera which exceeds the 6D's overall performance and quality, for the money.



Well, the D600 exceeds it, of course 8). 

FYI, not everyone is smitten like you by the 1-point AF system (effectively) on the 6D.
And not everyone is OK with a 1-point AF system (effectively) and consumer ergonomics on a $2K camera. 
I know what good value is _for me_ - and the 6D is not.


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## Etienne (Jun 27, 2013)

"You really need a supertelephoto lens in a fast professional sports situation, to realize the extra speed and focus ability of the 5D3. "

This is really false. The AF is very important in just about anything that moves moderately quickly, using almost any focal length. Animals, boats, cars, runners, any sports, casual and pro birding, ... Kids ... ever try to capture kids at a birthday party? It's no easier than pro sports, maybe even harder.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 27, 2013)

I think we're seeing the natural tendency of people who own a particular product to defend it's attributes, and minimize the importance of those features for which better models offer improvements.



Etienne said:


> CarlTN said:
> 
> 
> > You really need a supertelephoto lens in a fast professional sports situation, to realize the extra speed and focus ability of the 5D3.
> ...



+1 My 5DII could not keep up with my 3 year old running toward the camera, even with the DoF of an f/4 lens. I don't think the 6D would do a whole lot better. 



CarlTN said:


> In practical terms though, 6 fps is not that much faster than 4.5.



In mathematical terms, it's 33% faster. That's going to make a difference with many subjects.


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## Wildfire (Jun 27, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> I think we're seeing the natural tendency of people who own a particular product to defend it's attributes, and minimize the importance of those features for which better models offer improvements.



Or perhaps we're seeing the tendency that people purchase a particular product instead of a better model that offers improvements because the improvements weren't important to them?

I don't think anyone buys a 6D when their top priority is having quick and accurate autofocus on fast-moving subjects. I've said it many times: I wish my 6D had better autofocus. But since 90% of what I photograph doesn't really move it's not important enough for me to spend extra money on.


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## Sporgon (Jun 27, 2013)

The fact that the 'set' button cannot be used to jump to centre AF point - aka pressing the 'joystick' in on the 5D.

To me this seems like an error in programming. The eight way controller works quite well once you are used to it. An unexpected benefit is that when using a vertical grip without the joystick ( 5D mk1 and 2) you can still move focus point .

It is just so logical to press 'set' to centre the AF point, and so illogical that it doesn't happen.

I am tempted to also add the polymer top plate, but to be honest you just cannot tell the difference from the 5D. Those who call the 6D 'plasticy' have got an over active imagination.


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## Etienne (Jun 27, 2013)

The 6D is a good camera at a good price, but it does not stand-up against the 5DIII. Nor should we expect it to, given that it is roughly half the price. 

BTW ... I wish my 5DIII performed like a 1Dx (or a 1Dc) in some respects, but I don't expect it to, and I'm not willing to pay double (or quadruple) the price for that performance.


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## Ladislav (Jun 27, 2013)

Etienne said:


> viclewchenko said:
> 
> 
> > Etienne said:
> ...



That's it. Tamron lenses released prior to newer Canon cameras (new Rebels and 6D) can cause this issue. If that lens is still in warranty your friend should ask for replacement. Tell him to insist on replacement. I made a mistake and didn't do it. Instead of replacement the service centre replaced just VC and reprogrammed the lens - it solved the issue with battery but made the lens worse. I finaly got a replacement this week due to another issue.


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## Etienne (Jun 27, 2013)

Ladislav said:


> Etienne said:
> 
> 
> > viclewchenko said:
> ...



Thanks again! My buddy will be thrilled if this solves the problem. The lens is about 6 months old. He bought it with the camera in December.


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## Chuck Alaimo (Jun 27, 2013)

x-vision said:


> CarlTN said:
> 
> 
> > I disagree, because there is no other full frame camera which exceeds the 6D's overall performance and quality, for the money.
> ...



The d600 has it's strengths and so does the 6d. the d600 beats the 6d in servo, DR and resolution, and dual cards (yes there is the x-sync but that's really of no concern to me). the 6d beats the d600 in overall low light capabilities (center point can AF in any light, better IQ and DR above ISO 6400).

it's not a 1 point system! the outer points work pretty good until you get into some real low light, then its 1 point, but one point that can AF in pretty much any situation!!!!

LOL though, I am still editing that wedding where my second shooter had a D4 and a D3s --- and on my end it was the 6d and the 5d3...each cameras images are really good (which is awesome that the 6d's IQ is on par with other pro FF bodies! So....while the value may not be there for you, it certainly is for me!


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## x-vision (Jun 28, 2013)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> So....while the value may not be there for you, it certainly is for me!



Heh. The irony is that Canon went an extra mile to inconvenience pros with some of the 6D 'features'. 
And yet, due to its 'low' price, the 6D still an incredible value for pros - despite all inconveniences.


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## CarlTN (Jun 28, 2013)

x-vision said:


> CarlTN said:
> 
> 
> > I disagree, because there is no other full frame camera which exceeds the 6D's overall performance and quality, for the money.
> ...



You've tried the 6D, and compared it to the D600? In what way is the D600 better? I say it is not.

It is definitely not a one point autofocus. All the points work superbly. The people who were complaining about, apparently got early production units with defective sensors. Mine works great whether with center point or with any of the points, or with all of them.


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## CarlTN (Jun 28, 2013)

Etienne said:


> "You really need a supertelephoto lens in a fast professional sports situation, to realize the extra speed and focus ability of the 5D3. "
> 
> This is really false. The AF is very important in just about anything that moves moderately quickly, using almost any focal length. Animals, boats, cars, runners, any sports, casual and pro birding, ... Kids ... ever try to capture kids at a birthday party? It's no easier than pro sports, maybe even harder.



I can capture anything you would like me to capture with the 6D's autofocus. What I said is not false, at all. The 5D3's autofocus will not pull ahead, until you have a very fast lens with very fast AF motor, which is also precise, but also demands fast speed and precision from the body.


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## CarlTN (Jun 28, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> I think we're seeing the natural tendency of people who own a particular product to defend it's attributes, and minimize the importance of those features for which better models offer improvements.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You quoted me out of context, I said it shoots 30% more shots over a given time interval, if you would bother to read it. 6fps is 33.33333333333333333333333333333333333% more frames, if you want to get technical. Splitting hairs here doesn't mean much, though. Neither does 6fps versus 4.5. 

Yes, I own the 6D. You do not. Apparently you have not even tried one. The difference between you and me is, I have tried (besides the previous cameras I've owned) a 7D, a 5D3, a 5D2, a 1DX, a 1D4, and a 1Ds3...besides some Nikons. My judgment is not clouded. Yours is, besides being ignorant of the 6D, having not tried or compared one for yourself.

Honestly I have not come across anything faster than the 6D's autofocus can keep up with, especially children. It can keep up with small birds in flight, which have infinitely faster angular velocity than a running, jumping human child. I've never gotten a child out of focus with the 6D.


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## CarlTN (Jun 28, 2013)

Sporgon said:


> The fact that the 'set' button cannot be used to jump to centre AF point - aka pressing the 'joystick' in on the 5D.
> 
> To me this seems like an error in programming. The eight way controller works quite well once you are used to it. An unexpected benefit is that when using a vertical grip without the joystick ( 5D mk1 and 2) you can still move focus point .
> 
> ...



The set button _can_ be used to toggle between center point and all points active, provided you first engage the + button. Not sure why you're saying yours can't.


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## CarlTN (Jun 28, 2013)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> x-vision said:
> 
> 
> > CarlTN said:
> ...



Based on the tests I've seen, it's way below ISO 6400 where the 6D pulls ahead of the D600, _at the pixel level._ If you are referring to downsampling to 8 MP, I say who cares. I don't buy a camera like this to downsample images. 

I also highly doubt the D600 can beat the 6D in servo mode. It can shoot 1 more fps than the 6D, that's its only speed advantage...which is a very small advantage. The dual card slots are the only real advantage, besides the low noise at low ISO , below 1600 or so. Yes there's some extra dynamic range, but it's not a huge difference.

If I did events where I needed to shoot 2000 frames per hour, then I would complain about the lack of dual card slots. Thankfully I don't do those. That would be a pure nightmare in post, just sifting through them. Photography doesn't pay enough, regardless of the job, to do that much post work.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 28, 2013)

CarlTN said:


> I've never gotten a child out of focus with the 6D.



Never? I can only conclude that 1) you don't shoot many kids, or 2) you are hyperbolizing to the point where it becomes a lie. No AF system is perfect, they all miss, it's just a question of frequency. Sorry, I don't buy 'never', except in that way that I can honestly say I've never gotten a Sasquatch or a Yeti out of focus. 



CarlTN said:


> Yes, I own the 6D. You do not. Apparently you have not even tried one. The difference between you and me is, I have tried (besides the previous cameras I've owned) a 7D, a 5D3, a 5D2, a 1DX, a 1D4, and a 1Ds3...besides some Nikons. My judgment is not clouded. Yours is, besides being ignorant of the 6D, having not tried or compared one for yourself.



If it helps you to believe that, that's fine by me. However, it's not true. In fact, a few weeks ago I was at a kids' birthday party, at which several of the parents had dSLRs and we had a nice round robin with a 1D X, 5DIII, 6D, and 7D (I opted out of trying the 7D, since I own one). In my case, I tried them with the 70-200 II and 85L II. There were static (briefly) kids, running kids, jumping and sliding kids (it was a 'bouncy house' thing), all in pretty crappy lighting (>ISO 3200 to have a hope of an action-stopping shutter speed). 

All three bodies did great with static kids and one shot center point AF. With the peripheral points and the 85L, the 6D often (>20%) failed to lock or locked after excessive hunting, whereas the 5DIII and 1D X had no problems (thus, I can see what the poster who called it a '1-point system' means). With the peripheral points and the 70-200 II, the 6D did as well as the others on static subjects.

With servo and moving kids, the 6D did ok, but just ok, with the 70-200 II, and not well at all with the 85L. The 5DIII and 1D X were hard to distinguish (I could see the active points stick on the faces with the 1D X, whereas the 5DIII often went to shirts, etc., but at f/2.8 and the distances involved, the DoF was sufficient). Kids running diagonally toward me gave the 6D the most trouble - a higher miss rate for that than I found acceptable. When I tried servo tracking with an outer point on the 6D, it would frequently start out in focus then drift successively to backfocusing as the kid ran closer. The 1D X and 5DIII had no problem in that scenario. That may be technique, though - I suspect if I'd used just the center point, the 6D would have fared better. But that would mean cropping away a lot of the final images, since for composition purposes I prefer to leave the subject 'room to run' within the frame. With the center point on the 6D, the handoff to the outer points sometimes 'missed' and the outer point would lock onto a pipe on the wall or something - the high density of the 5DIII/1D X AF sensor makes those handoffs seamless.

But it really doesn't matter. What matters is that you're happy with your 6D and it gets you the shots you need. While my experience with the 6D was limited, I owned a 5DII for years. While I really liked the IQ, I was frequently frustrated by the limitations of the AF system with moving subjects. My brief experience with the 6D left me with the conclusion that while it was definitely improved compared to the 5DII, I would still be frustrated with it.


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## x-vision (Jun 28, 2013)

CarlTN said:


> In what way is the D600 better? I say it is not.


As neuro said, feel free to believe in anything you want. 

I've tried the 6D and 5DIII side by side. 
Surprisingly, the 6D felt more comfortable in my hand.
The 1-point AF system was also responsive and snappy (I did not bother with the outer AF points whatsoever - what's the point). 

So yes, I have tried the 6D. 
I know that the 5DIII is an overkill for me, so I wish the 6D did not have the hideous button placement at the back.
Like I said in a previous post, this is the deal breaker for me.
Others might be fine with it; I'm not. 

Btw, the 70D specs were just leaked. 
It will have the same AF system as the 7D - 19-points, all cross-type.
Compare this to the AF system on the 6D, a higher-end body (supposedly), 
It's a shame (disgrace?), really. 

Enjoy your 6D. I'm glad it's working out for you. Amen.


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## CarlTN (Jun 28, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> CarlTN said:
> 
> 
> > Yes, I own the 6D. You do not. Apparently you have not even tried one. The difference between you and me is, I have tried (besides the previous cameras I've owned) a 7D, a 5D3, a 5D2, a 1DX, a 1D4, and a 1Ds3...besides some Nikons. My judgment is not clouded. Yours is, besides being ignorant of the 6D, having not tried or compared one for yourself.
> ...



I appreciate the detail as you relate your experience comparing those cameras at that time.

It’s entirely possible that this particular 6D you tried, had a faulty AF sensor, as others have discussed theirs having. I have never had an issue with failure to lock AF, especially in servo mode, with any of the AF points. However, I can certainly see how you could have problems with AF with the 85L ii. I’ve not tried that one on my 6D. But it is not known for its ability to AF quickly, as you and everyone knows.

It obviously depends on how you have the servo tracking set up in the menu, but also especially on the lens used...so I hope we can agree on that. I admit the 70-200 f/2.8 ii, is designed to work better with more robust AF systems with more and faster computing capacity. I don’t own this lens, nor do I want to. It’s a fine lens, but I don’t want or need it.

_“When I tried starting the servo tracking with an outer point on the 6D, it would frequently start out in focus then drift successively to backfocusing as the kid ran closer.”_

Well, I can see why you had a problem here, because the 6D is not designed to specify a single point, then transition to other points in servo mode. You have to leave it on that one point, and keep the subject on it as you pan. You have to leave all points active, in order to track subjects that move across the frame, as you did in that situation. This is also how the 5D2’s AF worked, is it not? 

The 5D3 and 1DX are the only bodies where you could do the action you are describing. There is no “handoff” from point to point here, that the 6D can do. You can only select single points at a time, or else leave them all active. You should have just left them all active for this situation…which I will admit will still leave you with a lower hit rate than the 5D3 or 1DX. The reason being, the top and especially the bottom points, absolutely love to grab foreground details on the ground and focus on them, rather than on the subject in the center vertical third of the frame. If there was a way to select _all but_ the top and bottom points, then the AF system of the 6D would be even closer to the performance of the higher density, higher AF-point sensor…in servo mode...in my opinion. So that is definitely a case where Canon have "hobbled" the AF, and they should not have.

Again, I can see why you got frustrated. I have simply become accustomed to the simpler AF sensor of the “downmarket” bodies (coming from the 50D)…so the choice to either use a single point in servo mode, or else leave them all active, is not all that difficult to make for me. One or the other gets the job done. Having the narrower array of points, also helps when you choose to leave them all active (because it alleviates the phenomenon of focusing on the ground in front of the subject...as my 50D almost always did...with all points active). It kind of mimics using only the center group of points on the 5D3 or 1DX.


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## CarlTN (Jun 28, 2013)

My own responses included in bold italic within the following quote...



x-vision said:


> I've tried the 6D and 5DIII side by side.
> Surprisingly, the 6D felt more comfortable in my hand.
> 
> *Not all that surprising, you're just agreeing with my own observation of superior feel and lighter weight.*
> ...


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## luciolepri (Jun 28, 2013)

Faxon said:


> Having gone back and forth between options, I am thinking a 6D is my most practical choice. ($$$). Of course, I would rather have a 5D Mk III. But that being said, what do you 6D owners find you don't like about the 6D? I really want a full frame and an upgrade to better low light...... Focus points.... well, I guess I can be OK with the few that I would get..... But day to day, in hand, what don't you like about the camera? And what do you like better than your previous camera? Is the joystick too far away for easy point selections? Etc..Currently shooting a 20D and a 40D. Want to put my 17-40 and my 100 to work for me on a full frame body.



I was looking for a better second body to replace my old 5D MKII, but I found the 6D really disappointing:
1- Terrible moiré in video mode (compared to 5DMKIII)
2- No CF card
3- No double slot card
4- No WB dedicated button
5- No Joystick
6- Very cheap, plasticky feeling
7- No headphone plug
The good things I can say about 6D are that it performs very well with hi ISO settings, that its central AF point is very good in low light and that it is the only "cheap" FF camera. But that's not enough to convince me to buy it. In the end, I stayed with the good old 5DMKII, with which I can also use Magic Lantern. Obviously, I miss the 6D performances when I have to raise ISO over 400, but in every other situation I really wouldn't like to have a 6D in my hands.


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## CarlTN (Jun 28, 2013)

And Neuro, please don't call me a liar. Thankssomuch


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## CarlTN (Jun 28, 2013)

luciolepri said:


> Faxon said:
> 
> 
> > Having gone back and forth between options, I am thinking a 6D is my most practical choice. ($$$). Of course, I would rather have a 5D Mk III. But that being said, what do you 6D owners find you don't like about the 6D? I really want a full frame and an upgrade to better low light...... Focus points.... well, I guess I can be OK with the few that I would get..... But day to day, in hand, what don't you like about the camera? And what do you like better than your previous camera? Is the joystick too far away for easy point selections? Etc..Currently shooting a 20D and a 40D. Want to put my 17-40 and my 100 to work for me on a full frame body.
> ...



When you say you "found the 6D really disappointing", I assume you really mean that you _read_ that the 6D was really disappointing? Finding implies you tried one for yourself. If so, please show me some jpegs or video clips that are the results of you trying it and then deciding just how terrible it was.

Is it just me, or is there honestly an inherent need to disrespect anyone who owns and enjoys a Canon 6D? Are you all really that insecure that you have to pump yourselves up by slamming something that costs less than your precious 5D3, just to make sure everyone knows you're a worthwhile photographer or something?

Why even post threads like this? Is it simply to bait people who like the 6D, and attempt to discredit them? I really have tried the pro bodies I mentioned, along with the 5D3...and edited their RAW files as well.

I did not design the 6D, but I'll be damned if I'm going to be subject to second class status simply for being able to use one correctly, and not just fall into the fold and admit that the 5D3 is my god, or something. It's a false god...a fine camera in its own right, but it is not "the best" Canon camera.

Since 2008 I've had to read how great the 5D2 was, and thus somehow whoever owns one, is a "real" photographer. Well, it was a fine camera for 2008, but it's now 2013, and it is an inferior camera to the 6D. Sorry, it just is.


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## luciolepri (Jun 28, 2013)

CarlTN said:


> When you say you "found the 6D really disappointing", I assume you really mean that you _read_ that the 6D was really disappointing? Finding implies you tried one for yourself. If so, please show me some jpegs or video clips that are the results of you trying it and then deciding just how terrible it was.



I obviously tried one by myself and as you can assume from my cons points list the reasons why I don't like this camera are mostly not about its performances but about its features. As far as IQ is concerned, I'm only disappointed about moiré/aliasing issues in video mode, but since I work 99% of the times in the video field that's not a minor problem for me...


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 28, 2013)

CarlTN said:


> And Neuro, please don't call me a liar. Thankssomuch



Fair enough. But then please don't make false statements (e.g., my "_being ignorant of the 6D, having not tried or compared one for yourself._"). Thankssomuch back at ya. 

Edit: looks like I'm not the only one you've made that false statement about. It seems x-vision may be hitting the mark more accurately than an outer AF point on the 6D...


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## x-vision (Jun 28, 2013)

CarlTN said:


> Is it just me, or is there honestly an inherent need to disrespect anyone who owns and enjoys a Canon 6D?



It's the other way round, actually. 
You are obviously not noticing how you are meticulously going after everyone who doesn't like the 6D - in order to convince them that they are wrong and don't know what they are talking about.


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## jdramirez (Jun 28, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> CarlTN said:
> 
> 
> > I've never gotten a child out of focus with the 6D.
> ...



Maybe he was shooting with an 8mm fisheye at f/8. So basically infinite depth of field. I don't believe that either, but there is a ridiculous argument that can be made.


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## CarlTN (Jun 28, 2013)

luciolepri said:


> CarlTN said:
> 
> 
> > When you say you "found the 6D really disappointing", I assume you really mean that you _read_ that the 6D was really disappointing? Finding implies you tried one for yourself. If so, please show me some jpegs or video clips that are the results of you trying it and then deciding just how terrible it was.
> ...



Your cons list is basically a regurgitation of similar lists found elsewhere on this site, and no doubt many other sites.

I can understand your persepective, of course. I would just like to see the terrible moire you experienced with it, yourself. I know it exists, I just was curious.

Certainly buy the 5D3 if 99% of your work is video. The RAW video results from the hack of the 5D3, look stunning to me.


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## CarlTN (Jun 28, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> CarlTN said:
> 
> 
> > And Neuro, please don't call me a liar. Thankssomuch
> ...



I didn't make a false statement, again you are quoting me out of context. You never mentioned that you had tried the 6D yourself (or at least I did not see where you did...before I made the above observation. If you had said so in your preceding post, then my statement would have been false.) 

Regardless, this is not a court of law, and I am not on trial for not being a 5D3 snob like you and all the other 5D3 crowd on here, as much as you are trying in vain to burn me at the stake for it. This is a forum where I can express my opinion, and share my own experience, and share facts. I have done so.

The fact is, you did not know a basic aspect of the 6D's autofocus, thus you misused it...and based on that, you found FALSELY that it was somehow the camera's fault that you did not get all the shots in focus in your little test. When in reality, it was your own lack of knowledge that very likely caused most of the problem. You assumed the 6D's autofocus worked like the 5D3's or 1DX's, regarding selecting a single point in servo mode, and assuming the point _would transition to other points. Since there was no transition, _ once the target moved off your selected AF point, there was nothing for the system to focus on...and thus your subject moved out of the plane of focus. The focus certainly did lose lock, but it was your fault that it did.

All this really proves, is that most of the time, regarding the 6D's supposed lack of AF ability, or lack of making itself seem "impressive", it's really a lack of an impressive photographer using the camera.


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## CarlTN (Jun 28, 2013)

x-vision said:


> CarlTN said:
> 
> 
> > Is it just me, or is there honestly an inherent need to disrespect anyone who owns and enjoys a Canon 6D?
> ...



There's nothing meticulous about it. Simply responding to your posts on here, as you respond to mine. Not going after anyone. Just stating my experience, and the facts as I see them. Your facts seem to be based on prejudice against the 6D, rather than a knowledge of how it works. No need to get testy and attempt to gang up on me here, if I'm wrong about something I will admit to it. So far I am not.


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## agierke (Jun 28, 2013)

> This is a forum where I can express my opinion



can anyone else express their opinion here as well without being put down by you? or should we change this forum to CarlTNRumors....


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## CarlTN (Jun 28, 2013)

agierke said:


> > This is a forum where I can express my opinion
> 
> 
> 
> can anyone else express their opinion here as well without being put down by you? or should we change this forum to CarlTNRumors....



Did I put you down? Or is this "gang up on Carl" rumors? You're implying when I say someone is not the expert photographer they profess to be, that this is a put down? It's not. I don't claim to be an expert. I am just sharing my knowledge based on my experience with the camera. Why get angry about that? Is it because I am showing the camera to be more than the piece of crap you all wish it was?


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## bdunbar79 (Jun 28, 2013)

CarlTN said:


> agierke said:
> 
> 
> > > This is a forum where I can express my opinion
> ...



The issue Carl is the thread is titled "What do you NOT like about the Canon 6D?" When people state what they don't like, or what they think they don't like, whatever, you address each and every one of them and try to debate and negate them. Actually, you just try to negate them and without so many words, telling them they're wrong. It would be better actually, if you would debate them. This is why everyone is so irritated. I don't know why you feel the need to address each and every person and all of their negative points about the 6D to try to defend against them. Either answer the thread title, or let it go, and that's just as a favor to all of us.

The other thing that is irritating, as if the above isn't enough, is why in the hell do you even CARE if people hate the 6D? You like it, so who cares if someone else, or a lot of people, or the whole board hates it? Who cares? I don't get it.


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## x-vision (Jun 28, 2013)

CarlTN said:


> Did I put you down?



You called me and Neuro ignorant about the 6D AF system. 
And you said that luciolepri is regurgitating stuff heard elsewhere. 

So, yes, you are putting people down. 

But let me tell you something: 
Canon has publicly stated in interviews and in articles how they had to cut corners in order to achieve the 6D 'low' price. 
In other words, they made a lot of compromises - and they publicly admitted making them. 

Your precious 6D is far from perfect; in fact it's quite compromised. Canon admitted it themselves. 

So, be angry at Canon for making those compromises.
Not at the people that are simply disapproving of (some of) them - and shared their disappointments in this thread.


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## CarlTN (Jun 28, 2013)

bdunbar79 said:


> CarlTN said:
> 
> 
> > agierke said:
> ...



I actually _did_ answer the thread title in an earlier post, scroll up and read them all before you state matter of factly that I did not. It was my first post in the thread. And I most certainly am debating the 6D here.

I guess I question the need to hate the 6D, that's all. I mean, if you hate or dislike it, then have a valid reason. Yes, the AF sensor apparently malfunctioned in some samples (as RT and one other person have stated in the thread "6D autofocus not that impressive")...so this fluke does not speak well for Canon. 

But there's no reason to get irritated with me for getting to the heart of the criticisms of the camera. That is indeed what this thread is supposed to be about, rather than some kind of a slam fest of the camera or the people who use it and/or like it. The OP was asking what people didn't like about the camera, for whatever reason. Whether that person wants to buy one, or avoid buying one.

I am here to learn, and to share. I've learned a lot from this forum, so why am I not allowed to share when I know something about a camera, without being singled out, or my motives questioned? Why can't I disagree with someone else's opinion, without others deciding it's a personal attack? And instead, they attempt to attack me, or call me a liar? This is childishness, not necessary. I am not even angry here, either.

Bdunbar, there is no need for you being irritated with me in this thread. You have not even participated in it before now.


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## CarlTN (Jun 28, 2013)

x-vision said:


> CarlTN said:
> 
> 
> > Did I put you down?
> ...



Hold on, now you're quoting my reply to someone else, agierke? Ok...I'm pretty sure I didn't put him down.

Saying you are ignorant of an AF system, or someone regurgitating stuff read elsewhere...you can take it as a put down if you want, but it is not meant to be from my perspective. You are all being too thin skinned, just as some of you have accused me of being in the past. If I say someone is ignorant, it means they have not learned something. It's not a put down. If I say someone is regurgitating...sure that can sound a tad harsh, but it literally is point for point, what many many people have said about the 6D and what it lacks relative to the 5D3, in its feature set...so by definition, it is regurgitating words, ideas. I suppose I should have put that another way, so I apologize for the harshness. It's not as bad as me being called a liar, though.

I've never said the 6D was not designed to a price point, or that it was "perfect" (I might have said it's perfect for me, I don't recall...would be surprised if I haven't said that more than once). However, at its price point, it is not much of a compromise. To you it is, to me it is not. And I have stated why. The autofocus might not have a lot of points, it might not be the aged 7D's autofocus (soon to be regurg....errr...re-used in the new 70D, as I always thought it would)...

But my point that I have belabored, is that the 6D's autofocus _does work quite well_. When it doesn't, it's either the sensor itself is defective, or else someone is trying to use it as if it were a 5D3's autofocus (as above). It is not demonstrably inferior to its competition's AF (the D600). And yet many of you keep bringing the 5D3 into it, claiming the 6D is the 5D3's competition. If it is, then it is the 5D3 that is too compromised, because it certainly has most all the feature set a camera should have, superb video ability, and the higher price to accompany that.

So I'm not angry with Canon, I have no reason to be. I am not angry about anything at all, despite what I admit is some forceful rhetoric. But it is not me who is complaining about a camera I don't even own. I have no real complaints about the 6D, but I did highlight what I felt were its shortcomings. 

However, it just might be...that some people are angry that Canon built another full frame camera that actually works well if given half a chance and an open mind, yet costs less than their precious gem that they thought was going to be the one and only, exclusive full frame camera made by Canon, other than the more pricey pro body. But this is not 2008 anymore, and thankfully Canon and Nikon decided it was time, and had the ability to fill a niche, and create a new product line.

I apologize if I got too personal with you or anyone else. I don't think I did, but if you do, I'm sorry.


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## NCHANT (Jun 28, 2013)

I haven't read through this thread yet, but so far I am loving my 6D to bits.

A bit about me - I'm no pro photographer and have only been shooting for 14 months. I have stepped up from a 600D, so jumping to full frame was certainly different, but didn't take much to get use to. I shoot landscapes, cityscapes, and recently trying to shoot people.

For landscapes the 6D is perfect.

For people however, there are things I wish it had but happy to compromise. Everyone talks about the 11 point AF system and I agree, could be better. I am finding I have to focus then recompose the shot most of the time, makes shooting a touch slow. But that aside the quality of the shots 5000 ISO + is un-matched from what I have experienced so far.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 28, 2013)

CarlTN said:


> The fact is, you did not know a basic aspect of the 6D's autofocus, thus you misused it...and based on that, you found FALSELY that it was somehow the camera's fault that you did not get all the shots in focus in your little test. When in reality, it was your own lack of knowledge that very likely caused most of the problem. You assumed the 6D's autofocus worked like the 5D3's or 1DX's, regarding selecting a single point in servo mode, and assuming the point _would transition to other points. Since there was no transition, _ once the target moved off your selected AF point, there was nothing for the system to focus on...and thus your subject moved out of the plane of focus. The focus certainly did lose lock, but it was your fault that it did.
> 
> All this really proves, is that most of the time, regarding the 6D's supposed lack of AF ability, or lack of making itself seem "impressive", it's really a lack of an impressive photographer using the camera.



When did I assume that? From what I can tell, I'm not the one making ass-umptions here. For someone who 'didn't make a false statement' you just made another one. Or if you prefer, an incorrect assumption based on ignorance of the facts.

Re-read what I stated...and what you stated...



CarlTN said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > *When I tried servo tracking with an outer point on the 6D, it would frequently start out in focus then drift successively to backfocusing as the kid ran closer. *The 1D X and 5DIII had no problem in that scenario. That may be technique, though - I suspect if I'd used just the center point, the 6D would have fared better. But that would mean cropping away a lot of the final images, since for composition purposes I prefer to leave the subject 'room to run' within the frame. *With the center point on the 6D, the handoff to the outer points sometimes 'missed' and the outer point would lock onto a pipe on the wall or something - the high density of the 5DIII/1D X AF sensor makes those handoffs seamless.*
> ...



Did I include enough context for you? I stated, "When I tried servo tracking with an outer point on the 6D, it would frequently start out in focus then drift successively to backfocusing as the kid ran closer," and subsequently, "With the center point on the 6D, the handoff to the outer points sometimes 'missed' and the outer point would lock onto a pipe on the wall or something."

You added a couple of extra words to my statement, "_When I tried starting the servo tracking with an outer point on the 6D, it would frequently start out in focus then drift successively to backfocusing as the kid ran closer._” The point I was making was that servo tracking with a 6D outer point could not keep up with a kid running towards me, even with a fast-focusing lens like the 70-200 II.

I then went on to state that, "With the center point on the 6D, the handoff to the outer points sometimes 'missed'," and in that case, I was in automatic AF point selection mode, where the 6D should hand off the focus from the center point to the outer points...and again, it often failed to do so. 

So, you apparently put my statement about poor tracking with an outer point and my seperate statement about poor handing off from the center point to the outer points together, and came to the conclusion that I was expecting servo tracking from an outer point to hand off to a center point. Of course, I could also have been in 11-pt auto select, started with the center point over my subject, then recomposed so an outer point was over the subject...and in that case, the focus should have been handed off from the outer point (back to) the center point with continuous if the subject moved through the frame. That was a technique I used with my 5DII...it even worked - about a third of the time. 

So to summarize, I was using the 6D's AF system within it's design parameters, and using it correctly. It just wasn't holding up it's end of the bargain. But because I stated that it was failing to track a moving kid, you assumed (and have regurgitated several times) that I was trying to use it incorrectly due to ignorance of it's proper function, instead of accepting that *the 6D just couldn't track the kid*. Staunch defense in the face of facts. Nice. I'd accuse you of being a FLAO (fanboi with loss of all objectivity), except you did basically call two of the 6D's AF points crap (apologies, to be precise you stated, "...the top and especially the bottom points, absolutely love to grab foreground details on the ground and focus on them, rather than on the subject in the center vertical third of the frame.").



CarlTN said:


> I didn't make a false statement, again you are quoting me out of context. You never mentioned that you had tried the 6D yourself (or at least I did not see where you did...before I made the above observation. If you had said so in your preceding post, then my statement would have been false.)



Ignorance of the facts at the time you make a statement does not make your statement true. If you stated that I had blue eyes, that would be false too, regardless of whether or not I had previously stated my eye color. You made an assumption (several, actually) and you were wrong, but you won't admit it. But you go right ahead and crusade for the 6D...after all, it's a forum where you can express your opinion....even if that opinion is based on ignorance of certain facts and false assumptions about other facts. 

Better yet, let's see some of those small birds and running kids tracked with your 6D...grab your 6D and go take some pictures, and show us those!


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## Marsu42 (Jun 28, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> Did I include enough context for you? I stated, "When I tried servo tracking with an outer point on the 6D, it would frequently start out in focus then drift successively to backfocusing as the kid ran closer," and subsequently, "With the center point on the 6D, the handoff to the outer points sometimes 'missed' and the outer point would lock onto a pipe on the wall or something."



I have to admit I find it valiant to have even expected this af system to hand over focus between the points as "real" multi-point af systems (5d3, d600, d7000) do  ... on the 9pt crop cameras the focus points are too far apart for focus handover to work in real life, but they interpolate the focus if the tracked object covers multiple points.

On the 5d2/6d I'd also rather expect the outer points to serve as helpers for the center to do some correction, but not to work as 11/9 real, independent but interconnected points... or did anyone get them to work that way (I'd be delighted)? With this af point spread it doesn't seem plausible for the camera firmware to be designed with "real" multi-point functionality in mind.

One interesting piece of information: Canon deactivated "focus patterns" on the 6d - with the 5d2 (and all 9pt crop cameras) you could select patterns with Magic Lantern like the 3 leftmost, the 4 around the center and so on. Since this isn't possible anymore on the 6d it might be that Canon even in internal development expects the 6d to perform only ok in either "single/center point only" or "center + all other points as helpers", i.e. no real handover.


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## luciolepri (Jun 28, 2013)

CarlTN said:


> I can understand your persepective, of course. I would just like to see the terrible moire you experienced with it, yourself. I know it exists, I just was curious.



Here is a capture from a 6D video... Nothing like that ever happened to me with the 5DMKIII or the 1DX. And I can assure you that on video this is much worse than it looks in this picture because those lines and circles are moving! So, in my opinion, ad far as video is concerned, the 6D is just a 5DMKII with very much improved high ISO performances, a better central AF point, but a much worse ergonomic and a much cheaper body. So, all in all, as a second body I still prefer by far my old 5DMKII with the ML firmware.

P.S.= sorry for the creepy faces...


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 28, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> On the 5d2/6d I'd also rather expect the outer points to serve as helpers for the center to do some correction, but not to work as 11/9 real, independent but interconnected points... or did anyone get them to work that way (I'd be delighted)? With this af point spread it doesn't seem plausible for the camera firmware to be designed with "real" multi-point functionality in mind.



Keep in mind that while many people refer to the 5DII as a 9-pt system, it has 15 AF points. Only 9 are selectable, the 6 'invisible' points sit between the center and the outer points, and are active only during AI Servo focusing (if enabled - they're off by default). Now, I'm not saying the 5DII was actually good at handing off from the center to the outer points...but it was designed to do so.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 28, 2013)

luciolepri said:


> Here is a capture from a 6D video... Nothing like that ever happened to me with the 5DMKIII or the 1DX.



Canon took great care to make the 5d3 an excellent video camera (with Magic Lantern ) and to make the 6d a stills (non-action) shooting camera, for my (lack of) money they could have just removed video alltogether and cut the price by €200.

You can plug a 3rd party aa filter into the 6d just like the 5d3, but considering the price you could also go straight for the 5d3... if people buy the 6d for video it's their own fault considering the well-known moire problem since the 20mp sensor isn't built to downsample like the 22mp version.



neuroanatomist said:


> Keep in mind that while many people refer to the 5DII as a 9-pt system, it has 15 AF points. Only 9 are selectable, the 6 'invisible' points sit between the center and the outer points, and are active only during AI Servo focusing (if enabled - they're off by default). Now, I'm not saying the 5DII was actually good at handing off from the center to the outer points...but it was designed to do so.



That's what I intended to write  ... Canon tried on the 5d2 and failed, and they stopped trying on the 6d because the rationale is that anybody who wants a real multi-point af should buy the 5d3 (or a 1d4 or Nikon :->).


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## luciolepri (Jun 28, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> You can plug a 3rd party aa filter into the 6d just like the 5d3, but considering the price you could also go straight for the 5d3



I had the chance to try the Mosaic filter on the 5D MKII, 6D and 7D and it works great, but with wide lenses borders are very blurred, so that's not a real solution. And as you pointed, that filter is so expensive that you can seriously consider a camera upgrade, instead. Or maybe there are others, better AA filters, but I don't know about them...


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## unixas911 (Jun 28, 2013)

I don't understand you guys, when you are comparing 6d with 5d mark3. it's different products. the 6d is for the people, who was shooting with cameras like 1000D, or 600D and they just want better image quality in low light, or have wider angle. if you will compare the 6D auto focus with my old 550D, then it's insane fast. i am using only center point in both cameras, and the focus speed is about 2x faster. example: i have 100mm macro f2.8, not L lens. with 550D i can't shoot slowly walking people, but with 6D and the same lens, with the center point only, i can shoot like this easy:









my friend with the bike was moving really fast. and i done about 5 shoots continuously. all in perfect focus. jpg, strait from the camera.


the video is bad, i know. but again, if you was shooting video with old camera, you have now possibility to shoot at 12.800 iso easy or even in 16.000, and have the better result than 550D in 3200 iso. so it's more than 2 stops of additional light, and still better quality. and if i was a film maker, i will not buy the 6D and no one buy it for video. but to film my life around, it's perfect.

the one thing, the camera is bad, is that you cant keep the exposure in one level. if you shoot few frames in Aperture mode, same object, you will have +-1 Ev in your shots. sometimes less, sometimes more. it sucks. but that's only bad thing for me.

the camera is not for people, who want to use it as a job tool. but for hobby more. and in hobby you don't have something to important to need second card slot, or 60 focus points and so on. so it's perfect camera for 3 or 4 years.


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## luciolepri (Jun 28, 2013)

unixas911 said:


> I don't understand you guys, when you are comparing 6d with 5d mark3. it's different products.



I think we can all agree with you, but since the topic was "What do you NOT like about the Canon 6D" we were just pointing out its weaknesses. If the 6D was as good as the 5DMKIII it wouldn't cost 1500 $ less, that's obvious. Considering its price, it's definitely a very good FF camera, for stills. Personally, I was disappointed because after using the 5DMKIII and the 1DX I thought that the terrible moiré era was ended at Canon and that I could get a good and quite cheap second body... turned out I was wrong.


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## Sporgon (Jun 28, 2013)

^^

Nice one ! I can see from the look on your mates face that you've told him to focus on the 6D nay-sayers and run 'em down.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 28, 2013)

unixas911 said:


> if you will compare the 6D auto focus with my old 550D, then it's insane fast.



<sarcasm>Maybe we should just be more lenient with Canon and start comparing the 6d only with 6 year older camera, ignoring the fact that you can get three (3) current Rebel 700d for one (1) 6d :-> ... but sure enough the 6d will do just fine for high contrast objects moving in a predictable straight fashion in the center of the frame like the motor cycle you shot, you'll even only need a singe af point for that.</sarcasm>

But this proves that there are very different ideas what to do with a camera and if €1700 is a good price for what the 6d delivers, and a thread like this should help people sort out if the 6d is a good choice for them.


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## Chuck Alaimo (Jun 28, 2013)

unixas911 said:


> I don't understand you guys, when you are comparing 6d with 5d mark3. it's different products. the 6d is for the people, who was shooting with cameras like 1000D, or 600D and they just want better image quality in low light, or have wider angle. if you will compare the 6D auto focus with my old 550D, then it's insane fast. i am using only center point in both cameras, and the focus speed is about 2x faster. example: i have 100mm macro f2.8, not L lens. with 550D i can't shoot slowly walking people, but with 6D and the same lens, with the center point only, i can shoot like this easy:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Don't forget those already on FF that need a decent backup body! the 6d is a fine companion to the 5d3! I probably wouldn't be complimenting the 6d as much if that was my only FF body, because I can use the 6d up until i hit the wall of its features (IE, if i am shooting wide open on a prime lens in the sun, yeah, it may be time to set the 6d down and pick up the mk3 because I may need to go over 1/4000th. If i am shooting at a wedding, reception, dancing, I may want to switch to the mk3 for fast moving dancing, because the servo mode is not so good. If i am in low light, using ambient light only and want to frame the subject to the far left or right, yeah, time to set down the 6d. So my analysis of the 6d is based on my use, if it were my only FF body I'd most likely find the limitations frustrating, but, it does do what i want it to do quite fine and the mk3 can pick up the slack for what the 6d can't do....


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## pensive tomato (Jun 28, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> <sarcasm>Maybe we should just be more lenient with Canon and start comparing the 6d only with 6 year older camera, ignoring the fact that you can get three (3) current Rebel 700d for one (1) 6d :-> ... but sure enough the 6d will do just fine for high contrast objects moving in a predictable straight fashion in the center of the frame like the motor cycle you shot, you'll even only need a singe af point for that.</sarcasm>
> 
> But this proves that there are very different ideas what to do with a camera and if €1700 is a good price for what the 6d delivers, and a thread like this should help people sort out if the 6d is a good choice for them.



Obviously Canon did not intend the AF system to be the 6D's main selling point. On my part I'm very happy with a camera that can deliver comparable IQ across a broad range of scenarios with products that are over 1.5 or 3.5 times the price of the 6D --and you don't even get Wi-Fi with those other cameras!  Of course, there are plenty of reasons for getting a 5D3 or a 1DX, but Canon didn't number the 6D with a 3 or a 4 either.

My sincere thanks to all the naysayers for whatever part you played in lowering the price of the 6D so quickly. I was very happy buying mine for $1700 back in March and my lens line-up has also benefited from this. I can see not feeling the same way if the price were €1700.


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## J.R. (Jun 28, 2013)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> Don't forget those already on FF that need a decent backup body! the 6d is a fine companion to the 5d3! I probably wouldn't be complimenting the 6d as much if that was my only FF body, because I can use the 6d up until i hit the wall of its features (IE, if i am shooting wide open on a prime lens in the sun, yeah, it may be time to set the 6d down and pick up the mk3 because I may need to go over 1/4000th. If i am shooting at a wedding, reception, dancing, I may want to switch to the mk3 for fast moving dancing, because the servo mode is not so good. If i am in low light, using ambient light only and want to frame the subject to the far left or right, yeah, time to set down the 6d. So my analysis of the 6d is based on my use, if it were my only FF body I'd most likely find the limitations frustrating, but, it does do what i want it to do quite fine and the mk3 can pick up the slack for what the 6d can't do....



+100 ... well said Chuck!


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## J.R. (Jun 28, 2013)

pensive tomato said:


> Obviously Canon did not intend the AF system to be the 6D's main selling point.



Of course ... if anything, it moved on some of the 6D's aspirants to the 5D3 only for the AF. 

IMO the major grumble that people have against the 6D's AF is that it was not improved *substantially* over the 5D2. Some here claim that there is radical improvement while other feel they are calling a spade a spade. 

On a personal note, my 6D ran into trouble with the AF sensor that Canon has replaced earlier this week. I got the camera back today and it is loads better. That said, having both cameras, I think I will keep the 6D primarily for WA stuff and keep using the 5D3 for everything that is action packed.


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## pensive tomato (Jun 28, 2013)

J.R. said:


> pensive tomato said:
> 
> 
> > Obviously Canon did not intend the AF system to be the 6D's main selling point.
> ...



Fair enough, I agree that with the exception of the center point, Canon did as little in the AF department with the 6D as it could get away with. The 6D was not designed for action shooting. I do feel that as a camera though, the 6D is an improvement overall compared to the 5D2, but it's clearly not the intended upgrade path for most 5D2 users. Again, the camera has a 6 on its name. I think that's well deserved and at a price point of $1800 or lower, it's a very good value in the current US market.


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## J.R. (Jun 28, 2013)

pensive tomato said:


> The 6D was not designed for action shooting. I do feel that as a camera, the 6D is an improvement overall compared to the 5D2, but it's clearly not the intended upgrade path for most 5D2 users.



Yes, Yes and Yes!


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## Wildfire (Jun 28, 2013)

pensive tomato said:


> The 6D was not designed for action shooting. I do feel that as a camera though, the 6D is an improvement overall compared to the 5D2, but it's clearly not the intended upgrade path for most 5D2 users.



I think you nailed it.

For anyone who was happy with what the 5D2 had to offer, the 6D takes that and improves on it in every way with very minor but still worthwhile upgrades. For anyone who wants something substantially more than what the 5D2 had to offer, the 5D3 is what they need.


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## TWI by Dustin Abbott (Jun 28, 2013)

Etienne said:


> viclewchenko said:
> 
> 
> > Etienne said:
> ...



I don't know if someone else has answered this question, but I encountered the same issue. Tamron did a free update to the circuit board that solved the problem.


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## CarlTN (Jun 29, 2013)

J.R. said:


> pensive tomato said:
> 
> 
> > Obviously Canon did not intend the AF system to be the 6D's main selling point.
> ...



Thanks for weighing in. I do feel there is something to the phenomenon yours had. It seems to me that this could contribute to the negative experience so many have had with the 6D's autofocus (that of the outer points not working accurately). This is however _not_ what happened with the experience Neuro had, as he described it. The camera was not at fault in his case. 

For anyone who expected a significant upgrade to the 5D2's autofocus on a body which sells for 25 to 30% LESS than the 5D2 sold for during most of its life (not counting closeout prices after production neared its end, the average street price for the 5D2, new units, was in the $2400 to $2500 range...not even accounting for inflation)...all I can say is, your expectations were absurd. Canon gave you the autofocus gem you wanted, and charges a relatively fair price for it, with the 5D3.

What the 6D is, is a significant overall improvement over the 5D2 (especially for stills shooting), like it or not...and for 30% LESS money. So, why in hell is ANYONE complaining about the 6D? There's no valid reason...and again, mine servo tracks just fine, quite quick and responsive. I don't care what problems you had with servo tracking with the 5D2. The 6D I own, in my hands, can keep up with action just fine. Its outer points are very accurate, even in low light...they seem to lock focus about as quickly as the center point much of the time. 

I've yet to try a flashgun on it, but I'm not convinced it would give anything other than decent...if not quite good results...slower sync speed or not.

It's time to end this ridiculous thread.


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## CarlTN (Jun 29, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> CarlTN said:
> 
> 
> > The fact is, you did not know a basic aspect of the 6D's autofocus, thus you misused it...and based on that, you found FALSELY that it was somehow the camera's fault that you did not get all the shots in focus in your little test. When in reality, it was your own lack of knowledge that very likely caused most of the problem. You assumed the 6D's autofocus worked like the 5D3's or 1DX's, regarding selecting a single point in servo mode, and assuming the point _would transition to other points. Since there was no transition, _ once the target moved off your selected AF point, there was nothing for the system to focus on...and thus your subject moved out of the plane of focus. The focus certainly did lose lock, but it was your fault that it did.
> ...



How about you show yours first, since I'm such a liar, you would just cut them to pieces and claim I didn't shoot them or something. 

Get over yourself, you know full well that you SAID YOU SELECTED A SIDE AUTOFOCUS POINT AND THEN EXPECTED IT TO HAND OFF TO OTHER POINTS. An impossibility with the 6D, but a reality with the 5D3 and 1DX.

*"When I tried servo tracking with an outer point on the 6D, it would frequently start out in focus then drift successively to backfocusing as the kid ran closer."  * 

How can you "try" a single outer AF point without selecting it? You can't. What you said was intentionally misleading, if you are now claiming you did not select that point. If you had all AF points active, then that's what you're doing...you're not "trying" an outer AF point. 

Case closed on that, you lost.

How about this? Rather than me posting pictures of minors who are my relatives on the internet...why don't you give me your phone number and we can discuss this on the phone, Dr. bigshot. I am open to an autofocus shootout with anyone who ever happens to travel into my area. You could...unless of course you're afraid to travel in the South. I have no doubt you can travel anywhere you wish on a whim, Dr. bigshot.

Btw, I've been to Boston quite a few times. I have cousins who grew up there. Both my uncle and one of his sons attended MIT, and the son taught there for a number of years. The daughter got married on the Harvard campus in the chapel. I attended the wedding...a few months before 9/11/01. I'm grateful the wedding wasn't in september, or my family and I might have been on one of those airplanes!

Your part of the country has its strengths and its weaknesses...so come down off your high horse Dr. bigshot, and act your age. There's no need for this constant petty snideness you're happy to hurl at me...calling me a liar. At least I know how to use a "crude" autofocus system.


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## J.R. (Jun 29, 2013)

careful now!


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## CarlTN (Jun 29, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> if people buy the 6d for video it's their own fault considering the well-known moire problem since the 20mp sensor isn't built to downsample like the 22mp version.



I was certainly well aware of the moire before buying, and I did not buy the 6D for video other than non-pro footage. I've yet to see moire with mine, but I don't shoot people and their clothing, as much as I do nature and things not man-made. 

I'm not aware of anyone who has bought the 6D with the purpose of attempting serious video with it. I suppose those people exist, but I've never heard of it, or read anyone on here buying it for that.


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## CarlTN (Jun 29, 2013)

NCHANT said:


> I haven't read through this thread yet, but so far I am loving my 6D to bits.
> 
> A bit about me - I'm no pro photographer and have only been shooting for 14 months. I have stepped up from a 600D, so jumping to full frame was certainly different, but didn't take much to get use to. I shoot landscapes, cityscapes, and recently trying to shoot people.
> 
> ...



Glad you're enjoying it. It's entirely possible that the AF sensor is not working properly, as has been the case with others on here, such as RT.


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## CarlTN (Jun 29, 2013)

luciolepri said:


> CarlTN said:
> 
> 
> > I can understand your persepective, of course. I would just like to see the terrible moire you experienced with it, yourself. I know it exists, I just was curious.
> ...



Thanks for sharing that. I can see how that would get annoying.


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## J.R. (Jun 29, 2013)

CarlTN said:


> why in hell is ANYONE complaining about the 6D? There's no valid reason



The reasons for complaining appear to be valid to a number of people here including myself. 

The 6D may suit your requirements perfectly but that alone is not reason enough for everybody to agree with you. Different people have different wants / needs from their equipment and I don't see why a discussion as to why someone does not like a 6D cannot be undertaken. After all, nobody is being negatively affected by this discussion. 

The way I look at it, everyone is entitled to their freely express their opinions in an open forum. You must however realize at that at various points of time you simply have to agree to disagree and move on.


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## CarlTN (Jun 29, 2013)

J.R. said:


> CarlTN said:
> 
> 
> > why in hell is ANYONE complaining about the 6D? There's no valid reason
> ...



True. But I do feel there is an unfair bias going on, by people who have spent very little time with the 6D, and were in a hurry to dislike it. Can you imagine what would happen if I started a thread and asked what people don't like about the 5D3, or the 7D? It would be dominated by people who _do _ like the camera, and they would aggressively attempt to negate any criticisms of it.

Here, we basically have just me and a couple of other people who like the 6D, yet the thread is dominated by 5D3 lovers who dislike the 6D, and think of those who use it as unsophisticated people who are not serious photographers. And it's just not true. I consider myself serious, whether I make a lot of money from it or not. My status as not a big time, world class professional photographer who gets paid $10 million a month, has little to nothing to do with the ability of my current camera. It has everything to do with various other choices I've made, along with the fact that there are entirely too many professional photographers since digital took over...and there's only so much money to go around. The general public puts very little monetary value on photography. They think it, as with music, should either be free, or almost free.


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## G-V (Jun 29, 2013)

Recently got my 6D after using the 50D for 4 years, and the single biggest con that I've noticed is the AF assist lamp is placed much lower on the body... So low, in fact, that I sometimes accidentally cover it with my finger. 

Video moire is also a con, but I guess it's justified by the low price of this otherwise fantastic full-frame DSLR.


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## CarlTN (Jun 29, 2013)

G-V said:


> Recently got my 6D after using the 50D for 4 years, and the single biggest con that I've noticed is the AF assist lamp is placed much lower on the body... So low, in fact, that I sometimes accidentally cover it with my finger.
> 
> Video moire is also a con, but I guess it's justified by the low price of this otherwise fantastic full-frame DSLR.



Good points. I rarely use the AF assist lamp, interesting that you noticed it was a bit low...I didn't realize it. 

The moire might be the main intentional hobbling of the camera, but also due to the math of the sensor pixel dimensions, as has been stated various places.


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## ecka (Jun 29, 2013)

Only 2 things, really 
1. Single cross-type super sensitive AF point + 10 others I never use (I'd prefer 5 or even 3 point all cross-type super sensitive AF system)
2. Single SD card slot (I'd prefer single CF, over dual SD. Coming from 5D/7D/50D/40D... it's a big downgrade. Let's just hope they'll learn that memory card format switching and mixing is a bad idea).


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## billnelson75 (Jun 29, 2013)

I've had the 6D for several months now, and I love the camera. I think the 6D's target market is probably not people who previously owned the 5dII, that is what the 5dIII is for, but instead for those who want to jump from a crop sensor to full frame like I did. I went from a t3 to a t3i to a 5d classic, and now I have my 6D and I couldn't be happier. 

I think when you make that jump, unless you are coming from a 7D, the autofocus doesn't seem to be that much of an issue, and in most cases, its an improvement from what you had previously.

The one thing that I don't like on the 6d is the GPS and how you have to turn it off when you aren't using the camera. It will drain the battery to nothing. There have been times I've pulled my camera out and its dead. I'm used to switching it off now, but it seems like the camera should go into some type of GPS sleep when it hasn't moved or it can't get a GPS signal, but it doesn't do that. Even with it turned down to the least frequent settings, it is still firing when the camera is off and draining the battery. I'm sure this could probably be fixed with some type of firmware update, so hopefully Canon does that soon. 

Beyond that, I love the camera. It takes beautiful photos, and has a great size for me, not as big or heavy as the 7d or 5d mark III, and it fits my hands well. As for price, its a great value, I bought the kit, sold the included lens, and my total price ended up at less than $1600.


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## zim (Jun 29, 2013)

billnelson75 said:


> The one thing that I don't like on the 6d is the GPS and how you have to turn it off when you aren't using the camera. It will drain the battery to nothing. There have been times I've pulled my camera out and its dead. I'm used to switching it off now, but it seems like the camera should go into some type of GPS sleep when it hasn't moved or it can't get a GPS signal, but it doesn't do that. Even with it turned down to the least frequent settings, it is still firing when the camera is off and draining the battery. I'm sure this could probably be fixed with some type of firmware update, so hopefully Canon does that soon.




For clarification:

When you switch the 6D off the GPS continues to operate therefore the only way to really switch it off is to remove the battery?

Can the GPS option be disabled in menu, if so does that stop it from working completely?


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## bleephotography (Jun 29, 2013)

zim said:


> billnelson75 said:
> 
> 
> > The one thing that I don't like on the 6d is the GPS and how you have to turn it off when you aren't using the camera. It will drain the battery to nothing. There have been times I've pulled my camera out and its dead. I'm used to switching it off now, but it seems like the camera should go into some type of GPS sleep when it hasn't moved or it can't get a GPS signal, but it doesn't do that. Even with it turned down to the least frequent settings, it is still firing when the camera is off and draining the battery. I'm sure this could probably be fixed with some type of firmware update, so hopefully Canon does that soon.
> ...



Negative. You can disable/enable it easily in the menu. What Bill implied is that it is easy to forget to turn it off if you haven't developed a habit of doing so. That's why I've added that, along with the Wi-fi function, to my "My Menu" settings for easy access.


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## pensive tomato (Jun 29, 2013)

zim said:


> For clarification:
> 
> When you switch the 6D off the GPS continues to operate therefore the only way to really switch it off is to remove the battery?
> 
> Can the GPS option be disabled in menu, if so does that stop it from working completely?



There is the option to disable the GPS via the menu. Doing that stops the battery drain in my experience. I added that option to my star/favorites menu as a shortcut. I think what's being asked is a more efficient energy management routine when the camera is not being used (I wonder if smartphones are more efficient in this regard). That way, you wouldn't end up playing around with the settings much.

EDIT: I can see bleephotography posted on this while I was at it. Same approach here!


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## Wildfire (Jun 29, 2013)

G-V said:


> Recently got my 6D after using the 50D for 4 years, and the single biggest con that I've noticed is the AF assist lamp is placed much lower on the body... So low, in fact, that I sometimes accidentally cover it with my finger.



??

The 6D doesn't have an AF assist lamp! You need a speedlite to gain that functionality -- I know the front of the body has an IR sensor near the grip to detect a Canon remote shutter, but AF assist on Canon bodies is news to me! (The "lightning storm" provided by the Rebels does not count as AF assist )


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## zim (Jun 29, 2013)

pensive tomato said:


> zim said:
> 
> 
> > For clarification:
> ...



Ah thanks, as long as disbling in the menu stops drain then for *me* it's a non issue although I can see why a better management routine for it would be clearly beneficial.

Regards


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 29, 2013)

CarlTN said:


> How about you show yours first, since I'm such a liar, you would just cut them to pieces and claim I didn't shoot them or something.
> 
> Get over yourself, you know full well that you SAID YOU SELECTED A SIDE AUTOFOCUS POINT AND THEN EXPECTED IT TO HAND OFF TO OTHER POINTS. An impossibility with the 6D, but a reality with the 5D3 and 1DX.
> 
> ...



For the record, of course I selected an outer point, and put it on the subject. No, I did not expect a handoff. Yes, I kept the selected point on the subject. The 6D failed to track, and shots got successively backfocused. It was evident that the AF point remained on the subject, otherwise it would have locked on to something else. The subject was not a blurry mess with something else in focus, s/he was just out of focus enough so the shots became useless as the camera failed to track properly. 

Independently, I used the center point to start in 11-pt auto select. There, I expected the camera to hand off focus to the outer points. Many times, it did. Other times, it failed miserably. Frequency of those failures was unacceptably high, to me.

Case closed, the 6D lost.

As for the rest of your thoroughly insulting post, it's apparent that you will often meet criticism of the 6D with vitriol and personal attacks. Give you my phone number so I can be subjected to verbal insults as well? Don't be ridiculous. 

It would be nice if you would stop misinterpreting my statements and overtly misquoting me to support your opinion. But rather that hope for something that may not happen, I'm not going to continue this discussion further. I will simply ignore your posts, and trust the mods will deal with the situation appropriately if the insults continue.


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## bholliman (Jun 29, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> For the record, of course I selected an outer point, and put it on the subject. No, I did not expect a handoff. Yes, I kept the selected point on the subject. The 6D failed to track, and shots got successively backfocused. It was evident that the AF point remained on the subject, otherwise it would have locked on to something else. The subject was not a blurry mess with something else in focus, s/he was just out of focus enough so the shots became useless as the camera failed to track properly.
> 
> Independently, I used the center point to start in 11-pt auto select. There, I expected the camera to hand off focus to the outer points. Many times, it did. Other times, it failed miserably. Frequency of those failures was unacceptably high, to me.
> 
> Case closed, the 6D lost.



No doubt, the 6D AF system is lightyears behind that of the 5D3 or 7D. The key question for users is will it work for the type of photography they do. In my case the answer is "YES". 

I take mostly landscapes, portraits and shots of kids including some sports activities. I find the 6D AF system very good for all of the above except sports and kids running around where it is just acceptable. I expect some out of focus action shots, but overall I prefer it to my 7D for that type of shooting since the in-focus shots have much better image quality and lower noise. 

I could have purchased a 1DX or 5D3 instead of the 6D, but couldn't justify the additional expense to myself for features that would not make much difference in my photography. Photography is a hobby for me and not a vocation. The 6D is what it is, and entry level full frame camera with excellent image quality and limited AF. I'm very happy with mine.


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## CarlTN (Jun 29, 2013)

billnelson75 said:


> I've had the 6D for several months now, and I love the camera. I think the 6D's target market is probably not people who previously owned the 5dII, that is what the 5dIII is for, but instead for those who want to jump from a crop sensor to full frame like I did. I went from a t3 to a t3i to a 5d classic, and now I have my 6D and I couldn't be happier.
> 
> I think when you make that jump, unless you are coming from a 7D, the autofocus doesn't seem to be that much of an issue, and in most cases, its an improvement from what you had previously.
> 
> ...



Agreed on most of your points. I suppose many people might buy the kit and sell the lens. I probably should have, but I had too many lenses to sell at the time as it was.

I do like the 24-105, and I may buy one at some point. But I think a 24-70 would be more useful for me overall. Before that I really need a wide angle, possibly a zoom.


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## CarlTN (Jun 29, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> CarlTN said:
> 
> 
> > How about you show yours first, since I'm such a liar, you would just cut them to pieces and claim I didn't shoot them or something.
> ...


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## AudioGlenn (Jul 3, 2013)

whoa! what happened here? wtf did I miss? are you guys arguing about if a camera's AF is good or not? really? 

the 6D is great for what it is at the price point it's at. If the 6D's features don't fit your needs, get the mk3 or 1DX. it's not that complicated. It didn't happen to meet my needs for what I wanted from a backup camera but that doesn't mean it isn't right for someone else. Heck, for me, I just didn't like it not matching the feel/button layout of my 5D mk3... again, first world problems.....sheesh, I'll live. 

as far as who's lying and who's had real world experience with the camera, go try it out for yourself. a consumer's own personal experience/opinion with the body is what matters the most anyway. They're the ones shelling out the cash to purchase the product. share your thoughts on it if you care to share but my goodness, let's keep it civil. name calling and insulting each other is just useless and to be honest, I'm surprised a moderator hasn't put a stop to this discussion already. 

go shoot some pictures guys/gals. I still think that's more entertaining than writing essays on CR about


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## CarlTN (Jul 5, 2013)

AudioGlenn said:


> whoa! what happened here? wtf did I miss? are you guys arguing about if a camera's AF is good or not? really?
> 
> the 6D is great for what it is at the price point it's at. If the 6D's features don't fit your needs, get the mk3 or 1DX. it's not that complicated. It didn't happen to meet my needs for what I wanted from a backup camera but that doesn't mean it isn't right for someone else. Heck, for me, I just didn't like it not matching the feel/button layout of my 5D mk3... again, first world problems.....sheesh, I'll live.
> 
> ...



+1


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## Hannes (Jul 5, 2013)

For me the AF is a deal breaker. Had it had the af capabilities but most importantly the spread of even the older 40/50D AF array I wouldn't have hesitated. I could live with inferior AF compared to the 5DIII if it is priced accordingly. I could live with SD cards and the lack of the joystick but something as important as AF isn't nice to scrimp on.

One thing I would have like to see would be an option like a 6D mod. B that replaced the gps and wifi with a pop up flash. While it wouldn't be used much having one as a back up is always nice for when one is taking snapshots and if it could act as a master it'd be awesome.


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## bholliman (Jul 6, 2013)

Hannes said:


> I could live with inferior AF compared to the 5DIII if it is priced accordingly.



The 6D is currently selling for around $1600 in the US and the 5D3 for $3000+. Considering the image quality is very similar, I think that makes the 6D a bargain.


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## randerson5726 (Jul 6, 2013)

I really don't like the fact that when you switch into video mode, all your settings you had in photo mode transfer to video mode. Video settings are far different than photo. They should be independent like on the 60D. 

I find the wifi menu very confusing. I often reset the wifi settings to get it to work with my iPhone.

I also miss having the pop up flash for remotely firing a speedlite. 

Otherwise I think it's an amazing camera for the price.


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## bdunbar79 (Jul 6, 2013)

It's great for what it was made to do. That aside, this thread needs to give up:


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## Hannes (Jul 6, 2013)

bholliman said:


> Hannes said:
> 
> 
> > I could live with inferior AF compared to the 5DIII if it is priced accordingly.
> ...



The 6D is priced much better on your side of the pond, here the price difference is about $1000-1100 making the gap smaller between them. It is interesting that the 5DIII costs about the same but the 6D is more expensive here.

Going grey import you can get down to $1600 for a 6D here but then the 5DIII would be about $2800 from the same place.


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## Marsu42 (Jul 6, 2013)

bholliman said:


> The 6D is currently selling for around $1600 in the US and the 5D3 for $3000+. Considering the image quality is very similar, I think that makes the 6D a bargain.



You're correct about Canon's *relative* internal product differentiation, they take great care here. But the alternative view would be that *both* the 5d3 and the 6d are rather expensive in *absolute* terms. No, I don't want to start another flame war nor would I want to switch brands due to Magic Lantern, but it's really all about personal preferences (ii.e. if a camera has just what you want and how much value this has for you) and the question if you just compare Canon with Canon or dslrs in general.



Hannes said:


> Going grey import you can get down to $1600 for a 6D here but then the 5DIII would be about $2800 from the same place.



Where is your "here" ? And how would a grey import work - at least for Germany you'd have to pay ~20% vat plus 20% import tax if customs happen to inspect the camera, making it much less of a bargain ... plus is there any warranty at all on grey imports to the EU?


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## Hannes (Jul 6, 2013)

Marsu42 said:


> bholliman said:
> 
> 
> > The 6D is currently selling for around $1600 in the US and the 5D3 for $3000+. Considering the image quality is very similar, I think that makes the 6D a bargain.
> ...



UK from HDEW who buy their stock from hong kong since it comes out cheaper than getting it from Canon UK. They will also supply you with a three year third party warranty since Canon UK won't touch the equipment.


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## CarlTN (Jul 8, 2013)

Hannes said:


> For me the AF is a deal breaker. Had it had the af capabilities but most importantly the spread of even the older 40/50D AF array I wouldn't have hesitated. I could live with inferior AF compared to the 5DIII if it is priced accordingly. I could live with SD cards and the lack of the joystick but something as important as AF isn't nice to scrimp on.
> 
> One thing I would have like to see would be an option like a 6D mod. B that replaced the gps and wifi with a pop up flash. While it wouldn't be used much having one as a back up is always nice for when one is taking snapshots and if it could act as a master it'd be awesome.



There may very well be a "model B" version of the 6D in the future. It seems logical. I owned a 50D for 4 years. The 6D's autofocus is superior to it in most situations. The 50D lacked the ability to tweak the servo mode, for example. It also had less AF points...

The spread of the 6D's AF points alone (and/or the lack of a higher number of points), isn't really that big of a problem. The big problem is all the points other than the center point, are intentionally _not_ cross type. This is the much moaned about "hobbling". They need not be "double cross", in my opinion. But all the outer ones are one direction only, and not very sensitive in low light. However, I knew this long before I bought, or even tried a 6D.

That aside, as I have said in another thread today...I have nearly 7000 cycles on the shutter since March, and I am very happy with this 6D. It is what I expected, and it performs well for the money spent. The only time I get something not in focus, is if I depend _only_ on those outer points...while also in low light...and usually in servo mode...with anything that moves even at a moderate speed. _So...just don't do that. _ Leave them all active, or else use center point only. _In servo mode in very bright light with a high contrast subject, you can probably get by with selecting only one outer point. _ But for servo mode that is critical, or in lower light...leave them all active and make sure you keep the action at or near the center of the frame. If you're hypercritical about not wanting to do this, you probably already own a 5D3, a 1DX, or something else anyway.

Also the choice of lens seems like it is crucial, for AF speed and accuracy during servo mode. In my experience, the "faster" aperture lens, isn't necessarily always going to achieve focus as fast as a "slower" lens, even if the light is less than ideal. In my opinion there are a lot of factors in play here...certainly the "weak" AF sensor in the 6D needs all the help you can give it, in this situation. So if you know you have a shoot coming up where it's critical, try as many lenses as possible, and mimic the shooting conditions as best you can...to decide which one will work best and fastest with the camera. 

If I made a living solely with photography, I would probably own all three...the 1DX, 5D3, and 6D. For my current professional and non-pro purposes, the 6D steps up and is always ready for action. My own goal is to own something with a superior image and AF sensor, to the 1DX...which will hopefully happen with its replacement.

One more point...I'm also perfectly happy with the 6D's video ability. I don't shoot video professionally, and have yet to notice any moire. _ I know it's there_, but I apparently don't ever shoot anything that will set it off. I guess I just like the low noise, the color and contrast. But I certainly would like to emphasize, that if you ever intend to shoot professional video with a Canon DSLR, just make sure you use a 5D3, likely with the RAW video hack. Before that hack, to me the Black Magic camera looked better...but not since the hack. My non-expert opinion...


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