# The Canon EOS R5 has passed Bluetooth certification



## Canon Rumors Guy (May 5, 2020)

> It looks like one of the last hurdles to production has been passed, as the Canon EOS R5 has received Bluetooth certification.
> Nokishita breaks down the certification and code names:
> Canon “DS126831 / 36/37/38/39/40” also passed Bluetooth certification. Probably all “EOS R5” (36 is North American version [1-11,36-64,149-165ch], 38 is Taiwan etc. version [1-11,36-165ch], 39 is Chinese version [1-13,36-64,149] -165ch]. There should be a Japanese version [1-13,36-140ch] and a 1-13,36-165ch compatible version)
> 
> ...




[url=https://www.canonrumors.com/the-canon-eos-r5-has-passed-bluetooth-certification/]Continue reading...


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## SteveC (May 6, 2020)

All I'm waiting on is the price and expected release date...

And this brings that all one step closer. 

I own some EF-RF adapters now. One way or another there's an RF mount camera in my future. It's just a matter of which one.


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## xanbarksdale (May 6, 2020)

This sounds like good news!


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## usern4cr (May 6, 2020)

It's good to hear progress with the R5. I wonder if there will be a 100% reliable iphone (& android) app to communicate/control with the R5 in a really nice remote mode?


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## joestopper (May 6, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> [url=https://www.canonrumors.com/the-canon-eos-r5-has-passed-bluetooth-certification/]Continue reading...



Clear sign we are getting closer ...


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## sanj (May 6, 2020)

I had no idea Canon cameras could fail a blue tooth exam. Ah well.


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## DBounce (May 6, 2020)

It will be out before we know it. Soon all will be revealed.


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## herein2020 (May 6, 2020)

Call me old fashioned...I disable everything in my cameras that is not needed for video or photography. To me battery life is more critical than BT.


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## derpderp (May 6, 2020)

herein2020 said:


> Call me old fashioned...I disable everything in my cameras that is not needed for video or photography. To me battery life is more critical than BT.



old fashioned!


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## David Hull (May 6, 2020)

sanj said:


> I had no idea Canon cameras could fail a blue tooth exam. Ah well.


You have to pass that certification in order to put that Bluetooth logo on the device. That is how you can be confid3ent that the Bluetooth radio will work with all the things it is supposed to work with.


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## dwarven (May 6, 2020)

We probably won't see this camera easily obtainable until 2021.


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## Baron_Karza (May 6, 2020)

sanj said:


> I had no idea Canon cameras could fail a blue tooth exam. Ah well.



Any product by any brand could fail a blue tooth exam.


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## derpderp (May 6, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> It's good to hear progress with the R5. I wonder if there will be a 100% reliable iphone (& android) app to communicate/control with the R5 in a really nice remote mode?



They probably won't. Cause if they did, none of us will buy their optional expensive remote controllers.


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## Quarkcharmed (May 6, 2020)

So the production hasn't started yet? Or has it?


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## David_E (May 6, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> _It's good to hear progress with the R5. I wonder if there will be a 100% reliable iphone (& android) app to communicate/control with the R5 in a really nice remote mode?_


Yes, but it may not come from Canon. Both *Cascable *(uses camera WiFi) and *CamRanger* (external WiFi device) are amazingly simple and reliable ways to control and move photos from your Canon wirelessly. Cascable is iOS/iPadOS and MacOS only. CamRanger’s software is cross-platform. I’ve used both for years for remote control in nature photography. Today the 12.9-inch iPad Pro is the most awesome camera viewfinder _ever_.


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## Dragon (May 6, 2020)

derpderp said:


> emote controllers.





Quarkcharmed said:


> So the production hasn't started yet? Or has it?


No reason for production not to have started. The Bluetooth radio is pretty cut and dried. Any compatibility issues would be adjustments to firmware.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 6, 2020)

Canon has bluetooth modules that have already been approved. Typically, a approval consists of blessing the approved module as installed in a particular camera. The required tests are done by a certifited test company and the regulatory authorities bless the report. This can require approvals from many agencies around the world, so it is a exercise in bureaucracy. It is not required for production of a camera, but you can't sell one without. If the camera will be delivered on July 1, its been in production for ~10 months now. A new sensor probably needs a longer lead time yet if its totally new.


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## Adventure Kid (May 6, 2020)

$1000 EOS R seems a bit low. Private part sale should yield quite a bit higher.


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## Quarkcharmed (May 6, 2020)

Dragon said:


> No reason for production not to have started. The Bluetooth radio is pretty cut and dried. Any compatibility issues would be adjustments to firmware.



I thought so. But the news says "last hurdle to production" as if the production was prevented by not having the BT certification.


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## degos (May 6, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> Any product by any brand could fail a blue tooth exam.



Not really, the Bluetooth standards are so vague that every manufacturer's implementation differs slightly in behaviour from each other. Yet they all 'pass'.

Bluetooth Core Specification 5.0 is 2,822 pages long, yet Bluetooth implementation is still a subjective exercise.


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## edoorn (May 6, 2020)

well, at least Canon didn't handle the Bluetooth cripple hammer  

Anyone has an idea how long it usually takes between certification and announcement? I'm still betting on a release announcement before end of May, when Photokina was planned. Maybe a week prior or so.


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## derpderp (May 6, 2020)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Canon has bluetooth modules that have already been approved. Typically, a approval consists of blessing the approved module as installed in a particular camera. The required tests are done by a certifited test company and the regulatory authorities bless the report. This can require approvals from many agencies around the world, so it is a exercise in bureaucracy. It is not required for production of a camera, but you can't sell one without. If the camera will be delivered on July 1, its been in production for ~10 months now. A new sensor probably needs a longer lead time yet if its totally new.



I'm very interested to know how they go about blessing the module or the report. Holy water?


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## padam (May 6, 2020)

edoorn said:


> well, at least Canon didn't handle the Bluetooth cripple hammer
> 
> Anyone has an idea how long it usually takes between certification and announcement? I'm still betting on a release announcement before end of May, when Photokina was planned. Maybe a week prior or so.


The 1DX III development announcement was in October, certified in November, announced in January and began shipping in February.
Although the hardware is probably production ready, with the current situation, they have no reasons to rush it in any way.


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## bbb34 (May 6, 2020)

herein2020 said:


> Call me old fashioned...I disable everything in my cameras that is not needed for video or photography. To me battery life is more critical than BT.



In theory, I agree with you. In practice, the question is if the power consumption of the BT module is significant as compared to the rest of the camera. That depends on the actual kind of usage. When waiting hours for wild life, it might make a difference. When taking videos, or sports action with high frame rate probably not at all.

Plus, acquiring a GPS position from a phone over BT saves a lot of power compared to an inbuilt GPS. (No, I neither know nor claim if the R5 supports that, and yes, you probably don't care about the location in your EXIF. Fair enough.)


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## MartinF. (May 6, 2020)

SteveC said:


> All I'm waiting on is the price and expected release date...
> 
> And this brings that all one step closer.
> 
> I own some EF-RF adapters now. One way or another there's an RF mount camera in my future. It's just a matter of which one.


Same here. On a retired 5D and a 6D for now. Maybe a 5DmkIV (or V) as next, depending on pricegab for a R5 /R6 (I would like a - cheaper - R5 stile/spec. still-camera, with few or no videofeatures).


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## Otara (May 6, 2020)

derpderp said:


> I'm very interested to know how they go about blessing the module or the report. Holy water?



Holy Mouthwash Id say.


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## derpderp (May 6, 2020)

Otara said:


> Holy Mouthwash Id say.



let's just hope it's not Clorox.


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## snoke (May 6, 2020)

Now install CoroaVirus app for R5. It auto make photo of other person when too close and upload to server.


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## IcyBergs (May 6, 2020)

sanj said:


> I had no idea Canon cameras could fail a blue tooth exam. Ah well.


If they aren't brushing twice daily I would say it's definitely a possibility


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## Starting out EOS R (May 6, 2020)

David Hull said:


> You have to pass that certification in order to put that Bluetooth logo on the device. That is how you can be confid3ent that the Bluetooth radio will work with all the things it is supposed to work with.


Lol, I think there was a degree of sarcasm in Sanj's comment.


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## CJudge (May 6, 2020)

David_E said:


> Yes, but it may not come from Canon. Both *Cascable *(uses camera WiFi) and *CamRanger* (external WiFi device) are amazingly simple and reliable ways to control and move photos from your Canon wirelessly. Cascable is iOS/iPadOS and MacOS only. CamRanger’s software is cross-platform. I’ve used both for years for remote control in nature photography. Today the 12.9-inch iPad Pro is the most awesome camera viewfinder _ever_.



Thanks for this recommendation, I'd never heard of Cascable before, and it seems like a great option to always have in your pocket instead of bringing an intervalometer. Of course, it would be nice if Canon just gave us an intervalometer built into the R...


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## jam05 (May 6, 2020)

Already sold my 5D. Prices will drop even further next month. Don't expect the R5 to stay "In stock" longer than 20 minutes at a time


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## usern4cr (May 6, 2020)

derpderp said:


> They probably won't. Cause if they did, none of us will buy their optional expensive remote controllers.


No problem - they could just have us buy their optional expensive remote app controllers.


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## usern4cr (May 6, 2020)

bbb34 said:


> In theory, I agree with you. In practice, the question is if the power consumption of the BT module is significant as compared to the rest of the camera. That depends on the actual kind of usage. When waiting hours for wild life, it might make a difference. When taking videos, or sports action with high frame rate probably not at all.
> 
> Plus, acquiring a GPS position from a phone over BT saves a lot of power compared to an inbuilt GPS. (No, I neither know nor claim if the R5 supports that, and yes, you probably don't care about the location in your EXIF. Fair enough.)


If the phone GPS(&bluetooth on both) takes as much power as the camera inbuilt GPS, then you have not saved any power really since you'll just drain both batteries. And you can't carry little spare phone batteries as easily as spare camera batteries which you probably carry anyway. And it's way more awkward to use both since you need to bring the phone and pray that the connection will work 100%.

But if it's your only choice, then it's nice to have the option, of course.


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## Starting out EOS R (May 6, 2020)

jam05 said:


> Already sold my 5D. Prices will drop even further next month. Don't expect the R5 to stay "In stock" longer than 20 minutes at a time


Brave man, unless you have additional cameras to use between now and delivery. I decided being without my EOSR for a couple of months was a little too long, especially with the increasing possibility of it being delayed.


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## koenkooi (May 6, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> [..] And you can't carry little spare phone batteries as easily as spare camera batteries which you probably carry anyway.[..]



You actually can, those single 18650 sized powerbanks are awesome. And unlike Canon cameras, you can charge your phone during use.


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## justaCanonuser (May 6, 2020)

derpderp said:


> old fashioned!


In fact, I switch off BT in my 5D IV, too, if I do not need it to communicate e.g. with my smartphone. I simply added that to Mymenue...


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## justaCanonuser (May 6, 2020)

David Hull said:


> You have to pass that certification in order to put that Bluetooth logo on the device. That is how you can be confid3ent that the Bluetooth radio will work with all the things it is supposed to work with.


In fact, with other electronic devices, not Canon, I had already some bad surprises about BT not working while it should.


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## AEWest (May 6, 2020)

jam05 said:


> Already sold my 5D. Prices will drop even further next month. Don't expect the R5 to stay "In stock" longer than 20 minutes at a time


I expect that stock will be so limited this year that each camera store will set up wait lists with highest priority given to their best customers. General availability probably in 2021.


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## justaCanonuser (May 6, 2020)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> A new sensor probably needs a longer lead time yet if its totally new.


Yeah, just think about all those poor prisoners who have to stick all those single tiny pixels together. The tough guys already have a particularly stiff punishment: Sony A7R IV sensors


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## usern4cr (May 6, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> You actually can, those single 18650 sized powerbanks are awesome. And unlike Canon cameras, you can charge your phone during use.


I haven't been looking into powerbanks for phone, so thanks for the heads-up on this. It would probably be a good thing to have for the phone on a trip, regardless of camera issues. My current camera can't charge via USB, but hopefully the R5 & future cameras can, so that would mean a powerbank could assist the camera if it had GPS as well, so that would allow extra power to whichever way you get GPS.


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## bbb34 (May 6, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> If the phone GPS(&bluetooth on both) takes as much power as the camera inbuilt GPS, then you have not saved any power really since you'll just drain both batteries. And you can't carry little spare phone batteries as easily as spare camera batteries which you probably carry anyway. And it's way more awkward to use both since you need to bring the phone and pray that the connection will work 100%.



It totally depends on the scenario.

But you are missing two points:

a) There are not many people nowadays who go out without a phone. If bluetooth and location services are on anyway, there is not much additional power used.

b) A camera without inbuilt GPS can power down very deep. If you power down a GPS, it has to acquire the satellites at startup. That takes a lot of time. You definetely don't want to wait 1-2 minutes for the GPS before you can take a picture (with location).

A GPS in a phone circumvents this startup-problem, because it can work in the background, and it is using data assistance from the mobile phone infrastructure.


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## jolyonralph (May 6, 2020)

bbb34 said:


> A GPS in a phone circumvents this startup-problem, because it can work in the background, and it is using data assistance from the mobile phone infrastructure.



Yes, when it works. I've used both the bluetooth connection with the EOS R and the external GPS GP-E2 adaptor extensively - for example during a trip to Madagascar last year.

When it stayed connected the bluetooth was fine. But it doesn't. It drops frequently, and worst of all you don't get any obvious warning that the GPS has disconnected. With the GP-E2 your only worry is ensuring a stable supply of AA batteries for it, but once connected it's a solid reliable signal. In fact, the only reason I got to compare the GP-E2 with bluetooth from my phone last year was that I didn't ensure a stable supply of AA batteries 

Now, the bluetooth connection with the app is poor, but what is a thousand times worse is the remote connectivity for shooting from the phone. You need to manually reconnect (which is a pain) every time you turn the camera off/on. So when I was doing things such as astrophotography where I was using the phone as a remote, I ended up giving up turning the camera off when switching lenses in order to keep the connection alive.


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## usern4cr (May 6, 2020)

bbb34 said:


> It totally depends on the scenario.
> 
> But you are missing two points:
> 
> ...


Thanks - I wasn't thinking about the power-up issue. In my current camera usage I turn on the camera, take pictures, turn it off, walk a ways (even if only of brief duration), and repeat. This drastically increases battery life and it's automatic to me so I don't mind the power up & down at all. If the future in-camera GPS had to wait a minute or two then it would indeed be worthless to me to use.

With that said, if the phone was in my pants pocket, I will either be holding the camera in various positions, or sometimes place it down nearby (within say 10 feet). If the distance to the phone causes intermittent loss of bluetooth/wifi connection that requires re-work on my part to restart, then that will turn out to be worthless to me. In addition, since I prefer to turn my camera on/off so often to save battery I would not want to have to manually do anything to start/restart the phone connection, so there would have to be an optional auto-start feature to get GPS usage or otherwise it'd be too much trouble for me anyway. That may be a lot to expect, or maybe they finally have figured out how to make it that robust.


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## magarity (May 6, 2020)

herein2020 said:


> Call me old fashioned...I disable everything in my cameras that is not needed for video or photography. To me battery life is more critical than BT.


So yes, using BT functions is definitely one of those "if you want it fine otherwise never mind" things. As for power consumption the newer BT protocols are so low powered it doesn't make a real difference if its on or not. Its Wifi that sucks down the power at an alarming rate. Yet Canon uses BT in depressingly unimaginative ways. I don't think they use it to do any more than remote shutter trigger. Yet at up to 2Mb/sec BT is more than fast enough to do everything on the camera short of live view.


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## usern4cr (May 6, 2020)

jolyonralph said:


> Yes, when it works. I've used both the bluetooth connection with the EOS R and the external GPS GP-E2 adaptor extensively - for example during a trip to Madagascar last year.
> 
> When it stayed connected the bluetooth was fine. But it doesn't. It drops frequently, and worst of all you don't get any obvious warning that the GPS has disconnected. With the GP-E2 your only worry is ensuring a stable supply of AA batteries for it, but once connected it's a solid reliable signal. In fact, the only reason I got to compare the GP-E2 with bluetooth from my phone last year was that I didn't ensure a stable supply of AA batteries
> 
> Now, the bluetooth connection with the app is poor, but what is a thousand times worse is the remote connectivity for shooting from the phone. You need to manually reconnect (which is a pain) every time you turn the camera off/on. So when I was doing things such as astrophotography where I was using the phone as a remote, I ended up giving up turning the camera off when switching lenses in order to keep the connection alive.


The GP-E2 is quite interesting - thanks for mentioning it. It might be a good enough solution to the R5 to allow GPS usage with it. Do you know how soon after turning the GP-E2 on you can take a picture and have it GPS tagged? Also, is there sufficient warning on the GP-E2 about a low (but usable) battery so that you can change the battery at a convenient time, as well as avoiding taking pictures thinking you had GPS but not getting it since the GPS battery ran out without you knowing it?

What would be nice is if a hotshoe mounted GPS unit could be powered by the camera's battery as well as by it's own internal battery (or vice versa!) so that you would basically have a bigger total battery for use by both the camera and hotshoe device - Maybe the hotshoe device could contain a removable identical battery as the camera so that voltage matching was more possible, as well as more convenient for the user? But then again, that battery might be much too big & heavy to be up on top.


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## jolyonralph (May 6, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> Do you know how soon after turning the GP-E2 on you can take a picture and have it GPS tagged?
> Also, is there sufficient warning on the GP-E2 about a low (but usable) battery so that you can change the battery at a convenient time, as well as avoiding taking pictures thinking you had GPS but not getting it since the GPS battery ran out without you knowing it?



It can take about 30 seconds for it to get a reliable GPS lock, but don't forget because the GP-E2 is NOT powered from the camera, when you turn off the camera you can leave the GP-E2 powered on, which in general I do if I'm likely to be shooting again in the next few minutes. 

There is a separate battery indicator that flashes when the battery is getting low.


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## Deleted member 68328 (May 6, 2020)

Assuming it gets GPS, should there be a corresponding certification too?


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## vjlex (May 6, 2020)

bbb34 said:


> It totally depends on the scenario.
> 
> But you are missing two points:
> 
> ...



I'm pretty sure your scenario b) is exactly why Canon has 3 distinct GPS modes (at least on the one that's built into the 5D Mark IV). Mode 1 (still active even when camera is off), Mode 2 (off when camera is off, but periodically receives signals), and then Disabled Mode which I'm pretty sure means it is completely off. Pretty sure when mine is off, it powers down just as deep as cameras without built-in GPS. Correct me if I'm wrong.

Definitely not interested in using my phone as my GPS for my camera. More cumbersome than it needs to be, and also just not as reliable in my experience. I also find that keeping location services on really drains my battery. The thought of bringing a powerbank along with me and keeping it attached to my phone, and keeping my phone near the camera to make sure it connects as opposed to a built-in GPS that you can simply turn on or off based on your needs? For me it's not even a question. It's also one of the few reasons I opted not to get the R. Hopefully GPS will be built into the R5.


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## bbb34 (May 6, 2020)

I don't know much about certification requirements, but the big difference is that a Bluetooth module contains both, receiver and transmitter, while the GPS has only a receiver. These radio certifications are mainly about the transmitters.


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## bbb34 (May 6, 2020)

shunsai said:


> I'm pretty sure your scenario b) is exactly why [...]



You probably wanted to write issue, instead of scenario.


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## melgross (May 6, 2020)

I will be buying an R5 and a couple of lenses, at least as a beginning of my movement to mirrorless.

when? Well, considering that we really don’t yet know when the actual availability will be, and how that will fit into the Covid problem, I have to say that I just don’t know.


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## usern4cr (May 6, 2020)

shunsai said:


> I'm pretty sure your scenario b) is exactly why Canon has 3 distinct GPS modes (at least on the one that's built into the 5D Mark IV). Mode 1 (still active even when camera is off), Mode 2 (off when camera is off, but periodically receives signals), and then Disabled Mode which I'm pretty sure means it is completely off. Pretty sure when mine is off, it powers down just as deep as cameras without built-in GPS. Correct me if I'm wrong.
> 
> Definitely not interested in using my phone as my GPS for my camera. More cumbersome than it needs to be, and also just not as reliable in my experience. I also find that keeping location services on really drains my battery. The thought of bringing a powerbank along with me and keeping it attached to my phone, and keeping my phone near the camera to make sure it connects as opposed to a built-in GPS that you can simply turn on or off based on your needs? For me it's not even a question. It's also one of the few reasons I opted not to get the R. Hopefully GPS will be built into the R5.


You mention the 5D Mark IV GPS mode 2 being: off, but periodically receiving signals - Does this mean that as soon as you turn the camera back on you can take a pictures which store the last periodically received position until a new position is established? That wouldn't be bad at all!  - Do you have control over how frequent the periods are?


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## koenkooi (May 6, 2020)

jolyonralph said:


> [..] In fact, the only reason I got to compare the GP-E2 with bluetooth from my phone last year was that I didn't ensure a stable supply of AA batteries
> [..]



I bought a USB powered AA charger from Ikea, the VINNINGE, a while back for €3. It works great to top up the GP-E2 battery each while you sleep.

I also keep a tracklog on my phone, just in case


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## vjlex (May 6, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> You mention the 5D Mark IV GPS mode 2 being: off, but periodically receiving signals - Does this mean that as soon as you turn the camera back on you can take a pictures which store the last periodically received position until a new position is established? That wouldn't be bad at all!  - Do you have control over how frequent the periods are?



Yeah, that's my understanding of it. I usually use Mode 2 (particularly when I'm hiking). Initial startup can take some time to pinpoint the current location, but after that it doesn't take much time to update in this mode as far as I can tell. No, there's no way that I know of to specify the frequency.


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## vjlex (May 6, 2020)

bbb34 said:


> You probably wanted to write issue, instead of scenario.


 did I?


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## Quarkcharmed (May 6, 2020)

justaCanonuser said:


> In fact, I switch off BT in my 5D IV, too, if I do not need it to communicate e.g. with my smartphone. I simply added that to Mymenue...



But there's no BT in 5DIV.


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## abnagfab (May 6, 2020)

FWIW, I tried to get a quote from Adorama, and they won’t do that unless you ship the camera to them. Seems only useful for people who live in proximity to them.


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## abnagfab (May 6, 2020)

jolyonralph said:


> Yes, when it works. I've used both the bluetooth connection with the EOS R and the external GPS GP-E2 adaptor extensively - for example during a trip to Madagascar last year.
> 
> When it stayed connected the bluetooth was fine. But it doesn't. It drops frequently, and worst of all you don't get any obvious warning that the GPS has disconnected. With the GP-E2 your only worry is ensuring a stable supply of AA batteries for it, but once connected it's a solid reliable signal. In fact, the only reason I got to compare the GP-E2 with bluetooth from my phone last year was that I didn't ensure a stable supply of AA batteries
> 
> Now, the bluetooth connection with the app is poor, but what is a thousand times worse is the remote connectivity for shooting from the phone. You need to manually reconnect (which is a pain) every time you turn the camera off/on. So when I was doing things such as astrophotography where I was using the phone as a remote, I ended up giving up turning the camera off when switching lenses in order to keep the connection alive.


The obvious indication is a clear GPS indicator in the viewfinder. Not sure what else you’d want?


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## TinTin (May 6, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> You mention the 5D Mark IV GPS mode 2 being: off, but periodically receiving signals - Does this mean that as soon as you turn the camera back on you can take a pictures which store the last periodically received position until a new position is established? That wouldn't be bad at all!  - Do you have control over how frequent the periods are?


That's my understanding of mode 1: the GPS unit continues to track location, even if the camera is switched off. Thus, when you switch on, the GPS unit does not have to re-acquire the satellites. Location data are recorded in images.
In mode 2, the GPS unit is off (so less power is used than for mode 1), but, when you switch on the camera, the GPS comes on as well and will re-acquire the satellite signal and, once acquired, will place location data into images from that point onwards.
If disabled, the GPS unit is inactive and no location data will be recorded.


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## abnagfab (May 6, 2020)

TinTin said:


> That's my understanding of mode 1: the GPS unit continues to track location, even if the camera is switched off. Thus, when you switch on, the GPS unit does not have to re-acquire the satellites. Location data are recorded in images.
> In mode 2, the GPS unit is off (so less power is used than for mode 1), but, when you switch on the camera, the GPS comes on as well and will re-acquire the satellite signal and, once acquired, will place location data into images from that point onwards.
> If disabled, the GPS unit is inactive and no location data will be recorded.


The GPS in the 5DIV uses battery substantially faster than using the phone for GPS, especially when you just use BT (and not WiFi). The EOS R with BT and phone GPS is a great solution that I actually prefer, and they are slowly improving re-connect (e.g. when you fully turn the camera off for a while then back on, you need to launch the app the re-establish BT/GPS recording). It used to be after a couple minutes, now it seems to be much longer. It would be great if they could make it always just reconnect.


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## usern4cr (May 6, 2020)

TinTin said:


> That's my understanding of mode 1: the GPS unit continues to track location, even if the camera is switched off. Thus, when you switch on, the GPS unit does not have to re-acquire the satellites. Location data are recorded in images.
> In mode 2, the GPS unit is off (so less power is used than for mode 1), but, when you switch on the camera, the GPS comes on as well and will re-acquire the satellite signal and, once acquired, will place location data into images from that point onwards.
> If disabled, the GPS unit is inactive and no location data will be recorded.


Thanks! That's makes sense. One further question I have is this: In mode 2 during the first 30 (or so) seconds the GPS hasn't got a signal so photos are taken without GPS stored, but as soon as a signal is acquired will the camera automatically store that GPS location in all the photos taken in the prior 30 (or so) seconds since start-up?


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## SteveC (May 6, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> Brave man, unless you have additional cameras to use between now and delivery. I decided being without my EOSR for a couple of months was a little too long, especially with the increasing possibility of it being delayed.



I've been without my full frame camera for 56 years. In that situation, it's really no problem to wait.


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## TinTin (May 6, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> Thanks! That's makes sense. One further question I have is this: In mode 2 during the first 30 (or so) seconds the GPS hasn't got a signal so photos are taken without GPS stored, but as soon as a signal is acquired will the camera automatically store that GPS location in all the photos taken in the prior 30 (or so) seconds since start-up?


No, if the GPS unit has not acquired the signal, no GPS data will be recorded to images taken while that state persists. Location data are not recorded retrospectively once the signal is acquired: those images have no location data.

An alternative, of course, is to use a separate GPS tracker (the GP-E2 can be used this way, for example, as can the Canon Camera Connect phone app) to log/record a track and then use software, such as Canon's Map Utility, to match up the timestamps, in the photographs and the GPS track, to enable location data to be inserted retrospectively. Here, the more accurately the camera's clock is set, the more reliably the match can be made. Unfortunately, Map Utility has not been updated to understand CR3 RAW files (and neither has the third party free software, Geosetter).


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## vjlex (May 7, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> But there's no BT in 5DIV.


haha
I was wondering about that. Thought it was a function I had somehow overlooked for all these years. Not that I would turn it on anyway. It has NFC if I remember correctly. I think I tried using it a few times, but I don't remember being able to get it to connect to my phone, so I never used it again.



abnagfab said:


> The GPS in the 5DIV uses battery substantially faster than using the phone for GPS, especially when you just use BT (and not WiFi). The EOS R with BT and phone GPS is a great solution that I actually prefer, and they are slowly improving re-connect (e.g. when you fully turn the camera off for a while then back on, you need to launch the app the re-establish BT/GPS recording). It used to be after a couple minutes, now it seems to be much longer. It would be great if they could make it always just reconnect.



Is there a way to use the phone for GPS with the 5D4? I'd be curious to test and compare for myself. What Mode are you using on the 5D4 to compare to the EOS R with BT and phone GPS?

To me, it seems like location service drains my phone battery. That's much more problematic for me than having to switch out a camera battery a little bit sooner. Out in nature, I'd also rather not fumble around with an additional power pack, as if I didn't have enough gear to fumble with already.


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## ohm (May 7, 2020)

Was thinking about an X-T4, but knowing the EOS R has good IQ, I think I will just assume that the EOS R5 will be better again, and good enough to replace my GFX50s. Sell that and the X-T3 and be out of Fuji land except for the X100- that is, if its video is as sharp as the X-T3's is. This thing is going to be killer.


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## Starting out EOS R (May 7, 2020)

SteveC said:


> I've been without my full frame camera for 56 years. In that situation, it's really no problem to wait.


Lucky man to have other bodies to use. I'm not that lucky so I'll just have to wait and see lol.


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## jolyonralph (May 7, 2020)

abnagfab said:


> The obvious indication is a clear GPS indicator in the viewfinder. Not sure what else you’d want?


A *GPS LOST* warning rather than one of the many symbols around the edge of the image being lit or not lit would be far more useful.


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## jdavidse (May 7, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> It's good to hear progress with the R5. I wonder if there will be a 100% reliable iphone (& android) app to communicate/control with the R5 in a really nice remote mode?



I wouldn’t count on it


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## jolyonralph (May 7, 2020)

jdavidse said:


> I wouldn’t count on it



It may be slightly more likely on Android where the OS is better suited to background tasks, but yes, forget it on iPhone


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## Gözler (May 7, 2020)

I predict it will start shipping by middle of June 2020.


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## justaCanonuser (May 7, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> But there's no BT in 5DIV.


You're right, its Wifi and NFC, sorry... but I don't mind, it's all about near field communication. In fact Wifi is much better since it works (nearly) always. BT connectivity depends so much on the BT version - if you have e.g. a BT 4.0 gadget, it can't already communicate with a BT 4.1 device, I recently discovered.


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## tpatana (May 7, 2020)

justaCanonuser said:


> You're right, its Wifi and NFC, sorry... but I don't mind, it's all about near field communication. In fact Wifi is much better since it works (nearly) always. BT connectivity depends so much on the BT version - if you have e.g. a BT 4.0 gadget, it can't already communicate with a BT 4.1 device, I recently discovered.



I've worked with BT (and wifi, GPS and others), and I wish it was that simple. BT4.0 usually should be able to talk with BT4.1, it's more important which version of the communication profiles and stacks they use. The 4.0 vs 4.1 is just the high level version and doesn't really tell anything. I think most devices communicate over GATT profile so if they have same GATT version it usually helps. But not always, BT cert/spec is quite strange so 2 devices can have same BT and GATT version, and still they don't work which each other. More important is if they did proper interop testing, like in this case they test the connection against Top100 phones in the market. And even sometimes same phone might have 2 different BT chipset manufacturers so depending on when it came from the factory, it might be different even when to customer they look the same.


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## usern4cr (May 7, 2020)

tpatana said:


> I've worked with BT (and wifi, GPS and others), and I wish it was that simple. BT4.0 usually should be able to talk with BT4.1, it's more important which version of the communication profiles and stacks they use. The 4.0 vs 4.1 is just the high level version and doesn't really tell anything. I think most devices communicate over GATT profile so if they have same GATT version it usually helps. But not always, BT cert/spec is quite strange so 2 devices can have same BT and GATT version, and still they don't work which each other. More important is if they did proper interop testing, like in this case they test the connection against Top100 phones in the market. And even sometimes same phone might have 2 different BT chipset manufacturers so depending on when it came from the factory, it might be different even when to customer they look the same.


It's a shame to hear that BT can be unreliable at all - you'd think certification for a communication via a wireless protocol in 2020 would mean 100% bulletproof communication. To hear it can be so hit or miss tells me the original electrical & software protocol had poor design and certainly very poor manufacturing quality assurance oversight.


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## tpatana (May 7, 2020)

Bit guessing but one reason why the BT solutions can vary so much is that the spec gives lot of flexibility for each design. Downside is that the flexibility makes it sometimes incompatible with other devices. The good is that when you have direct pair like Apple phone and the Apple watch, they can make it perfect as they control both sides. But when you don't control both sides you can try to make it as good as you can but still you need lot of testing to make sure it works with all the devices. Cell phones is such wild west with lot of companies so it's tough to make sure it works with everything.


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## bbb34 (May 8, 2020)

Certification of a (Bluetooth) radio module is not at all about verification of functionality and interoperability, but about verification that the radio does not cause more radio interference than permitted.


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## justaCanonuser (May 8, 2020)

tpatana said:


> ...BT cert/spec is quite strange... And even sometimes same phone might have 2 different BT chipset manufacturers so depending on when it came from the factory, it might be different even when to customer they look the same.


That's spot on. To put it simply, BT isn't really stable industrial standard, that's why you can't rely on it. My first trial with BT was back in 2004 with my first Samsung mobile phone, and it didn't want communicate with any Notebook within my reach (most had BT back then). I really don't understand why manufacturers simply forget about BT and go for Wifi? Wifi is stable, relatively safe encryption is standard (as long as quantum computers aren't mainstream  )...


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## SecureGSM (May 8, 2020)

justaCanonuser said:


> That's spot on. To put it simply, BT isn't really stable industrial standard, that's why you can't rely on it. My first trial with BT was back in 2004 with my first Samsung mobile phone, and it didn't want communicate with any Notebook within my reach (most had BT back then). I really don't understand why manufacturers simply forget about BT and go for Wifi? Wifi is stable, relatively safe encryption is standard (as long as quantum computers aren't mainstream  )...


Because WiFi devices can use 10 times or more electric power than BT devices


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## justaCanonuser (May 8, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> Because WiFi devices can use 10 times or more electric power than BT devices


That's why I only activate Wifi of my 5D4 when I need it. But when I need it, I know Wifi just works. Why should I need my camera to *always* communicate with any other device? I'll never use it as an MP3 player with headphones  BTW Canon's smartphone/tablet app is quite nicely designed, easy to use IMO. Typical Canon.


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## SecureGSM (May 8, 2020)

justaCanonuser said:


> That's why I only activate Wifi of my 5D4 when I need it. But when I need it, I know Wifi just works. Why should I need my camera to *always* communicate with any other device? I'll never use it as an MP3 player with headphones  BTW Canon's smartphone/tablet app is quite nicely designed, easy to use IMO. Typical Canon.


ah, there are better applications for BT from a photographer perspective than an audio link of course 
use case: connect to internet via accessing your phone over BT connection, acquire GPS position from your phone via BT link.

one application I was thinking of: one can remotely trigger a camera (or cameras) connected to internet from miles away, or operate camera, etc.
BT radio consumes as low as 2W only. makes sense?


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## koenkooi (May 8, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> ah, there are better applications for BT from a photographer perspective than an audio link of course
> use case: connect to internet via accessing your phone over BT connection, acquire GPS position from your phone via BT link.
> 
> one application I was thinking of: one can remotely trigger a camera (or cameras) connected to internet from miles away, or operate camera, etc.
> BT radio consumes as low as 2W only. makes sense?



Two Watts is a lot, the original BTLE spec aims for 0.01–0.50 W. For GPS I really hope it's on the low end of that range.


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## SecureGSM (May 8, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> Two Watts is a lot, the original BTLE spec aims for 0.01–0.50 W. For GPS I really hope it's on the low end of that range.


Oops.. missing decimal point there 0.2 W. Thanks for pointing that out.


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## tpatana (May 8, 2020)

Yea knowing many wireless standards, the sad part is the BT/BLE is probably the best option regardless. Like mentioned above, the cert is more about being compliant, not about working together with other devices.

There's reason why BT organizes interop events where everyone shows up with their BT devices and tries to work with everyone else. I've been to 4-5 of those events, usually you find really weird bugs. So there's reason to go to those.


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## Michael Clark (May 8, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> Brave man, unless you have additional cameras to use between now and delivery. I decided being without my EOSR for a couple of months was a little too long, especially with the increasing possibility of it being delayed.



I guess it all depends upon whether one is a camera collector or a photographer.


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## brad-man (May 8, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> I guess it all depends upon whether one is a camera collector or a photographer.


I don't believe the two are mutually exclusive. I capture images and cameras...


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## Starting out EOS R (May 9, 2020)

brad-man said:


> I don't believe the two are mutually exclusive. I capture images and cameras...


I'd love to do both lol but I'm not that fortunate, especially with the price of these new bodies coming out. If I want the new R5, I'm afraid my R has to be traded in. I'm not rich enough or good enough to warrant carrying around 2 bodies. Wish I was.


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## brad-man (May 9, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> I'd love to do both lol but I'm not that fortunate, especially with the price of these new bodies coming out. If I want the new R5, I'm afraid my R has to be traded in. I'm not rich enough or good enough to warrant carrying around 2 bodies. Wish I was.


I can sympathize. I should mention that I never buy bodies at release price. I wait until the camera reaches a price I am willing to pay. That usually takes about a year and a half and sometimes longer.


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## Starting out EOS R (May 15, 2020)

Well, I've just seen the latest no Canon rumours rumor shown on tech radar that the R5 price will be around $6000, something like $10500 Australian dollars. That's me staying with my EOS R. Way off my price range and my skills don't warrant paying that much lol. I was hoping for between $3500 and $4000 but I shouldn't be surprised at the price with the specs it packs. I will watch and drool but on the plus side, at least all the bugs and issues will be ironed out of it before the price drops closer to my budget.


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## SecureGSM (May 15, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> Well, I've just seen the latest no Canon rumours rumor shown on tech radar that the R5 price will be around $6000, something like $10500 Australian dollars. That's me staying with my EOS R. Way off my price range and my skills don't warrant paying that much lol. I was hoping for between $3500 and $4000 but I shouldn't be surprised at the price with the specs it packs. I will watch and drool but on the plus side, at least all the bugs and issues will be ironed out of it before the price drops closer to my budget.


do not believe all you read on internet blindly. R5 will be price at around US$3,750.00 RRP at launch in USA. hows is that for a rumour?


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## koenkooi (May 15, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> Well, I've just seen the latest no Canon rumours rumor shown on tech radar that the R5 price will be around $6000, something like $10500 Australian dollars. That's me staying with my EOS R. Way off my price range and my skills don't warrant paying that much lol. I was hoping for between $3500 and $4000 but I shouldn't be surprised at the price with the specs it packs. I will watch and drool but on the plus side, at least all the bugs and issues will be ironed out of it before the price drops closer to my budget.



I just checked the site referenced and it has the R5 at AU$200. Did you bother to check the site?


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## 12Broncos (May 15, 2020)

SteveC said:


> All I'm waiting on is the price and expected release date...
> 
> And this brings that all one step closer.
> 
> I own some EF-RF adapters now. One way or another there's an RF mount camera in my future. It's just a matter of which one.


I really don't mind if they ship it late, but announce the thing already! Stupid COVID-19 can't affect an announcement.


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## Starting out EOS R (May 15, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> I just checked the site referenced and it has the R5 at AU$200. Did you bother to check the site?


nah, I knew that the site had already been changed and I know things like this happen, the price may either be as stated or different. As I'm sure like everyone else, the sooner Canon make an announcement the better, even If it is then a delayed delivery. all good fun I suppose.


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## BillB (May 15, 2020)

12Broncos said:


> I really don't mind if they ship it late, but announce the thing already! Stupid COVID-19 can't affect an announcement.


An announcement won’t tell us everything. We need to have them put the user manual on line now, so we can really know what we will be able to order whenever.


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## 12Broncos (May 15, 2020)

BillB said:


> An announcement won’t tell us everything. We need to have them put the user manual on line now, so we can really know what we will be able to order whenever.


I agree, or how about a brochure that lists the specs, something like Nikon did with the Z6/Z7. That's all I want, I can't buy now. In the Fall, quite possibly.


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## Michael Clark (May 16, 2020)

12Broncos said:


> I really don't mind if they ship it late, but announce the thing already! Stupid COVID-19 can't affect an announcement.



Why? The original intent was to announce it at Photokina which was scheduled for the end of May. They'll announce it at the same time they've been planning to announce it since late last year.


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