# Maybe we really can't have it all...



## sunnyVan (Aug 5, 2016)

I had my M3 until last month when I got an 80D. The M3 was sufficient for my use in many ways but it's just too slow to operate and the grip is so small that sometimes I felt like I was having hand joint pain. But it had one huge advantage that I now miss so sorely--its size and weight. I used to be able to carry both 5dmk3 + M3. Now it's bit much to carry 5dmk3 + 80d. 

The 80D is absolutely awesome. My initial plan was to ditch all the M lenses and stick to EF lenses. After two weeks of use I wanted to give efs lenses a try. I thought if the efs 18-135 stm is on par with efm 18-55 I'd be quite satisfied. In fact I got both efs 10-18 and efs 18-135 stm thinking I could have substantial weight reduction. I did. However the IQ of these two lenses are nothing compared to the efm 18-55 and efm 11-22. Returned both. 

I wish we could have an 80D-like body with a full frame sensor, or an M3-like body with the responsiveness of the 80D. But no, you can't have everything perfect...


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## midluk (Aug 5, 2016)

sunnyVan said:


> But no, you can't have everything perfect...


Yes.


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## 3kramd5 (Aug 5, 2016)

sunnyVan said:


> I wish we could have an 80D-like body with a full frame sensor



Save your pennies, the next 5D may be for you!


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## sunnyVan (Aug 5, 2016)

I plan to stick to a 2 camera solution. Mk4 +mk3 is going to be too much. A 80D sized camera is probably optimal. I'm counting on a 6Dmk2. 



3kramd5 said:


> sunnyVan said:
> 
> 
> > I wish we could have an 80D-like body with a full frame sensor
> ...


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## IglooEater (Aug 5, 2016)

3kramd5 said:


> sunnyVan said:
> 
> 
> > I wish we could have an 80D-like body with a full frame sensor
> ...



Hmm.. The 5D IV is likely to have a more 5D iii-like body which is a good chunk larger and heavier. I think the next edition of the 6D might be more like it.


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## Ivan Muller (Aug 15, 2016)

mmmm I too have the M3, just recently got the 80d and my main body is the 6D. But I am actually not as thrilled with my80d as you and as I hoped...for me there is just no comparison between the much superior image quality of the 6D and the 80D. I have gotten so used to shooting between 400 and 1600iso that the 800iso limit -which imo is already pushing it - of the 80d is really annoying and at that iso the DR is much the same as my M3...also the only advantage i see is the supposedly superior AF but at three times the price of the M3 in my country, I do have a bit of buyers remorse...the thing is that even with the 6D's supposedly inferior AF system my keeper rate for in focus images is very high and focusing has just never been a problem...maybe I should have waited for 6Dmk2...? anyway I'm probably going to sell my 80D after only a months and save the money for the 6dmk2 or even the 5d4 if it turns out to be all we are hoping for....

everyday I just marvel at how good the 6d is and what fantastic images i get from it...whereas the 80d for its price is, a disappointment...


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## 9VIII (Aug 15, 2016)

Keep in mind that we've never seen a DPAF EOS-M, which is extremely ironic, as soon as Canon gives that a try I expect the mirrorless game to shift in Canon's favor.
Fuji came so close (5fps limit for EVF tracking in a sports body is ridiculous), Sony says they have no competition and probably won't release anything compelling under $1,000.
Everything else is M43 (or smaller, though I guess Nikon is rumored to try their hand at making a real camera this year).

If Canon just gives us an EOS-M with competent focusing for regular consumer level prices they'll have a killer product.


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## Mikehit (Aug 15, 2016)

Ivan Muller said:


> mmmm I too have the M3, just recently got the 80d and my main body is the 6D. But I am actually not as thrilled with my80d as you and as I hoped...for me there is just no comparison between the much superior image quality of the 6D and the 80D. I have gotten so used to shooting between 400 and 1600iso that the 800iso limit -which imo is already pushing it - of the 80d is really annoying and at that iso the DR is much the same as my M3...also the only advantage i see is the supposedly superior AF but at three times the price of the M3 in my country, I do have a bit of buyers remorse...the thing is that even with the 6D's supposedly inferior AF system my keeper rate for in focus images is very high and focusing has just never been a problem...maybe I should have waited for 6Dmk2...? anyway I'm probably going to sell my 80D after only a months and save the money for the 6dmk2 or even the 5d4 if it turns out to be all we are hoping for....
> 
> everyday I just marvel at how good the 6d is and what fantastic images i get from it...whereas the 80d for its price is, a disappointment...



It sounds to me like you were not quite sure what it was you wanted. I have the 7D2 and the 6D and for many situations the 6D does just fine and is better in low light so I am not surprised to hear your comments regards the 80D.
The only way the 6D cedes anything to the 80D is the AF tracking - and even then the 6D is very good. The only real difference is that the zone focusing of the 80D gives you more chance of keeping a moving subject in focus if the main AF point slips off the subject.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 15, 2016)

9VIII said:


> If Canon just gives us an EOS-M with competent focusing for regular consumer level prices they'll have a killer product.



Yes, but would will it kill? 

Canon is the ILC market leader, they're probably fine letting Sony keep their 10-12% ILC market share while keeping their >40% share based mainly on dSLRs. The M system can certainly be expanded/enhanced – Canon is slowly headed that way, but I suspect their strategy is to hold off on a killer MILC until their killing someone else's sales, not their own dSLR sales.


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## Sporgon (Aug 15, 2016)

9VIII said:


> Keep in mind that we've never seen a DPAF EOS-M, which is extremely ironic, as soon as Canon gives that a try I expect the mirrorless game to shift in Canon's favor.
> 
> If Canon just gives us an EOS-M with competent focusing for regular consumer level prices they'll have a killer product.



Agree on the DPAF for the M series, it would make it very interesting, but I think Neuro is correct in that Canon have no wish to take sales away from their dslrs yet. And I think for many the dslr is probably still the better bet anyway. 

But the servo AF on the M3 isn't too bad as long as it has plenty to work with. My wife recently went on a 'pleasure ride' and I was basically ordered to attend in case the horse got too excited and I had to get on it. So I took the M3 and a couple of EF lenses to see how I got on with it. These three are all with the EF 100/2 @f/2.5, in servo. In the first one the horse was cantering towards me at 45 mph :-X ( well it would have been if I'd been testing the AF on a 7DII ) , in the second they were trotting towards me at around 10 mph ( a sort of typical TN sport AF accuracy test) and well OK, in the third they are walking but I couldn't resist that pony's expression. 

I don't think it is bad for a camera of this price and flexibility.


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## sunnyVan (Aug 15, 2016)

If Canon makes an eos-M (pro-M?) that has DPAF with an ok built-in EVF (I don't expect awesome EVF from canon honestly) but costs about the same as the 80D, would you be interested? Even though I personally may still hesitate (due to ergonomics) , I'm sure plenty of people on this forum would take the plunge. Does Canon care whether the revenue comes from an 80D vs a similarly priced pro-M? 





9VIII said:


> Keep in mind that we've never seen a DPAF EOS-M, which is extremely ironic, as soon as Canon gives that a try I expect the mirrorless game to shift in Canon's favor.
> Fuji came so close (5fps limit for EVF tracking in a sports body is ridiculous), Sony says they have no competition and probably won't release anything compelling under $1,000.
> Everything else is M43 (or smaller, though I guess Nikon is rumored to try their hand at making a real camera this year).
> 
> If Canon just gives us an EOS-M with competent focusing for regular consumer level prices they'll have a killer product.


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## sunnyVan (Aug 15, 2016)

Nice shots, Sporgon. I like the first one. 





Sporgon said:


> 9VIII said:
> 
> 
> > Keep in mind that we've never seen a DPAF EOS-M, which is extremely ironic, as soon as Canon gives that a try I expect the mirrorless game to shift in Canon's favor.
> ...


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## Sporgon (Aug 15, 2016)

sunnyVan said:


> Nice shots, Sporgon. I like the first one.



Thanks sunnyVan. I do share your frustrations with the M compared with a good dslr, but then I'm not yet a mirrorless convert. I think many so called advantages of the concept are over rated. For instance focus peaking sounds great, but it only seems accurate enough when working with a very shallow depth of perceived focus, for instance a close up portrait. Once you move to a further away subject I just can't tell where the real POF is within such a range of contrast, and here a fast screen in a dslr is better - for me anyway.


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## Luds34 (Aug 15, 2016)

sunnyVan said:


> I plan to stick to a 2 camera solution. Mk4 +mk3 is going to be too much. A 80D sized camera is probably optimal. I'm counting on a 6Dmk2.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Luds34 (Aug 15, 2016)

sunnyVan said:


> Nice shots, Sporgon. I like the first one.



I agree, great shots, and especially the first one!


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## sunnyVan (Aug 15, 2016)

I'm bringing 70-300L, 24-70, 16-35, and 5dmk3 on my upcoming trip to the west coast. These, along with my 3.5lbs tripod, are must-bring items. If I want to bring a second camera on a just-in-case basis, should I bring M3 or 80d? Here is my weight analysis. 


M3 + adapter = about 450g
80d = about 720g

The weight difference is not quite as big as I thought. 

With the 80D I even have a pop-up flash. I used to be afraid to use a pop-up flash until I finally learned to cover the front with my hand and bounce the light up to ceiling, giving me pretty natural looking picture instead of frontal harsh flash. So I can now leaven my 600exrt behind. Plus I don't have to bring additional battery and charger for M3 since both 5dmk3 and 80d use the same. 

My point is that if weight is a concern, which for me is a huge one as a hiker, then the weight savings from the M system is not that big unless I'm willing to only use M lenses. I tried efm 55-200, which unfortunately fell short of my expectation. I tried efs 18-135 as well, which was an even bigger disappointment. I just got so spoiled by my L lenses. So you're correct when you say the advantages of mirrorless can be a bit overrated. 

Let me add one more point. I gave the efs 10-18 a second try. This time around it seems pretty decent. Quite comparable to the efm 11-22. And they actually weigh about the same. An ultrawide angle lens on a comfortable-to-hold 80d with an articulating screen that has tap to shoot function!!! AND, this is a big one, DPAF on 80d is so darn faster than m3, that shooting candid photos from waist level is now so easy! I'm just so in love with my 80d. 





Sporgon said:


> sunnyVan said:
> 
> 
> > Nice shots, Sporgon. I like the first one.
> ...


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## Sporgon (Aug 16, 2016)

Luds34 said:


> sunnyVan said:
> 
> 
> > Nice shots, Sporgon. I like the first one.
> ...



Thanks Luds. With EF lenses the M3 can certainly track subjects coming towards you much better than the 5D / 5DII. ( I know that's not saying much). Probably similar to the 6D, large AF area not withstanding. It would be even better with the dedicated m lenses, but they are too slow for crop to claw back its shallow DOF disadvantage. 



sunnyVan said:


> I'm just so in love with my 80d.



Take your 80D. You'll get better pictures using a camera that you enjoy using.


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