# DPReview: Review of the Canon EOS R5



## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 2, 2020)

> Chris and Jordan at DPReview have completed their review of the Canon EOS R5. As normal, Chris reviews the still sides of the camera, and Jordan handles the video side of things.
> This is a tale of two cameras it appears.
> For stills, Chris thinks the EOS R5 will become one of his favorite cameras. Great image quality, terrific autofocus, and handling the handling of the camera is what you’d expect from Canon. There were no heat issues when shooting stills only, but yes, there is an effect on the higher-quality record times after shooting photos.
> For video, Jordan loves the quality of the video files, especially the 4KHQ mode. In Jordan’s testing of the overheating, he found the record run times in a controlled environment are pretty much where Canon says they are. The problem, that he and everyone has, is the...



Continue reading...


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## Sharlin (Aug 2, 2020)

I wonder how much one could reduce the cooldown time by using something like a small Peltier-cooled travel fridge or similar device. Also, how much effect removing the lens has. How about a Peltier cooler that you can mount on the camera in place of a lens?!


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## DannyPwins (Aug 2, 2020)

I was really excited about this camera when it was announced, not so much now. It’s looks like a great camera for stills, but not video. I’ll stick with my R and 5DIV for the time being.


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## Mark3794 (Aug 2, 2020)

Admin do you think that they are happy with the overheating to protect a new RF cinema camera that is gonna be announced soon?


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## Osama (Aug 2, 2020)

Sharlin said:


> I wonder how much one could reduce the cooldown time by using something like a small Peltier-cooled travel fridge or similar device. Also, how much effect removing the lens has. How about a Peltier cooler that you can mount on the camera in place of a lens?!



Not much, if not at all, based on my experience. The best thing that helped so far is removing the battery and cards and keeping the doors open. But even that gives you 1 minute for every 2 minute of downtime. I must say however that I’m enjoying the 4k non HQ mode. Once processed, the files looks clean and sharp.


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## jam05 (Aug 2, 2020)

Sharlin said:


> I wonder how much one could reduce the cooldown time by using something like a small Peltier-cooled travel fridge or similar device. Also, how much effect removing the lens has. How about a Peltier cooler that you can mount on the camera in place of a lens?!


Better installed on the back where the processor is. I'm going to mount mine on the back as in the Tilta cooler. Right where the LCD fits. Also will us a 5v DC fansink cpu cooler attached with 0.5 heatsink removable pad. 








Tiltaing Camera Cage for Canon R5


The next camera system to be supported by our Tiltaing collection of camera accessories is the new Canon R5. Featuring a new mirrorless CMOS image sensor and 8K RAW / 4K 120P capabilities…




tilta.com


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 2, 2020)

Sharlin said:


> I wonder how much one could reduce the cooldown time by using something like a small Peltier-cooled travel fridge or similar device. Also, how much effect removing the lens has. How about a Peltier cooler that you can mount on the camera in place of a lens?!


I was thinking we use two grip arms to mount portable fans to a housing cage powered by an attached power bank. Ultimate Camera Rig.


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## sdz (Aug 2, 2020)

I just looked but could not find a video stating that using the R5 with a Ninja V partially resolves the file size limits and heating problems present when recording higher quality video to cards. i believe I saw this somewhere...

These recorders were always solutions to the limits of these cameras. So, using one with the R5 would not be a cheat.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 2, 2020)

So Canon built an amazing stills centric hybrid capable of cutting edge video performance not seen in anything else close to this price point that performs as they state it will and who’s stills performance equals or exceeds any other camera and they are *******?

Just listen to yourselves, God I hate all this crap.


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## sdz (Aug 2, 2020)

sdz said:


> I just looked but could not find a video stating that using the R5 with a Ninja V partially resolves the file size limits and heating problems present when recording higher quality video to cards. i believe I saw this somewhere...
> 
> These recorders were always solutions to the limits of these cameras. So, using one with the R5 would not be a cheat.



Never mind: This and this.


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## masterpix (Aug 2, 2020)

Still waiting to hear if Canon will duplicate the R5 into 5Dmark5 (with OVF).


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## masterpix (Aug 2, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> So Canon built an amazing stills centric hybrid capable of cutting edge video performance not seen in anything else close to this price point that performs as they state it will and who’s stills performance equals or exceeds any other camera and they are *******?
> 
> Just listen to yourselves, God I hate all this crap.


******* to be successful?


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## sdz (Aug 2, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> So Canon built an amazing stills centric hybrid capable of cutting edge video performance not seen in anything else close to this price point that performs as they state it will and who’s stills performance equals or exceeds any other camera and they are *******?
> 
> Just listen to yourselves, God I hate all this crap.



All gear has limitations. The question always is: Can I -- anyone considering the equipment -- work within those limitations? That's it. The same question applies to Arri and Phase One cameras. 

That said, Canon's past use of the cripple hammer was annoying.


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## BeenThere (Aug 2, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> So Canon built an amazing stills centric hybrid capable of cutting edge video performance not seen in anything else close to this price point that performs as they state it will and who’s stills performance equals or exceeds any other camera and they are *******?
> 
> Just listen to yourselves, God I hate all this crap.


Take a break. This crap is just the nature of social media. None of this will affect what you are able to produce, and your work will not be judged based on the equipment you use.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 2, 2020)

masterpix said:


> Still waiting to hear if Canon will duplicate the R5 into 5Dmark5 (with OVF).


No they won’t. Why would they they are being crucified for making the R5, this negative PR will have a very real impact on the cameras we get moving forwards, expect stills to take a huge back seat to video performance even though the vast majority of buyers, unlike testers and reviewers, don’t give a damn about the video specs.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 2, 2020)

BeenThere said:


> Take a break. This crap is just the nature of social media. None of this will affect what you are able to produce, and your work will not be judged based on the equipment you use.


But this storm in a teacup is going to have real impact on the future releases from Canon. The R5 is the best and most capable stills camera they have ever made, by far, it is also pushing the boundaries of video capabilities and the ‘normal’ video specs are comparable to what we are used to, yet Canon are being destroyed for releasing it. Which means they won’t do it again and to appease the bullshit they will focus more and more on video performance that most buyers simply don’t care about.


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## BeenThere (Aug 2, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> No they won’t. Why would they they are being crucified for making the R5, this negative PR will have a very real impact on the cameras we get moving forwards, expect stills to take a huge back seat to video performance even though the vast majority of buyers, unlike testers and reviewers, don’t give a damn about the video specs.


If you are right, I guess I will be using the R5 for a long time.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 2, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> So Canon built an amazing stills centric hybrid capable of cutting edge video performance not seen in anything else close to this price point that performs as they state it will and who’s stills performance equals or exceeds any other camera and they are *******?
> 
> Just listen to yourselves, God I hate all this crap.


Correction: They built a stills camera with great AF that overheats while taking stills making the “cutting edge” 8k and HQ modes unusable in “hybrid” scenarios. They marketed the 8K30 and 4K120 as if it were actually usable. They only released the overheat times after we questioned them days after preorders started. Stop making excuses for a shady PR team. There is nothing cutting edge having to wait 2 hours for 20 minutes of record time (if you’re not taking stills).


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 2, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> But this storm in a teacup is going to have real impact on the future releases from Canon. The R5 is the best and most capable stills camera they have ever made, by far, it is also pushing the boundaries of video capabilities and the ‘normal’ video specs are comparable to what we are used to, yet Canon are being destroyed for releasing it. Which means they won’t do it again and to appease the bullshit they will focus more and more on video performance that most buyers simply don’t care about.


I care about video.


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## genriquez (Aug 2, 2020)

I think it's fine for most hybrid shooters given that nonHQ 4k30, 1080p and cropped 4k will be almost always available. Especially those that record in 4k but export to 1080p

Personally I would just carry around an external monitor if I knew I was gonna shoot 20min+ of video or if I knew I was going to export in 4k.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 2, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> No they won’t. Why would they they are being crucified for making the R5, this negative PR will have a very real impact on the cameras we get moving forwards, expect stills to take a huge back seat to video performance even though the vast majority of buyers, unlike testers and reviewers, don’t give a damn about the video specs.


If you don’t want negative PR don’t market the camera dishonestly? Pretty simple.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> I care about video.


So buy a video centric hybrid.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> If you don’t want negative PR don’t market the camera dishonestly? Pretty simple.


Ok, but I think all you villagers with pitchforks and flaming torches are actually going to do more harm to yourselves than you realize.

Carry on with the burning and shooting down in flames.


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## yestostills (Aug 2, 2020)

masterpix said:


> Still waiting to hear if Canon will duplicate the R5 into 5Dmark5 (with OVF).


Absolutely. A photo centric still camera to continue to support those of us who invested heavily in EF lenses.


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## Starting out EOS R (Aug 2, 2020)

So, after a few days, I can honestly say, I love the R5. The stills image quality is superb and the AF is such a step forward from the R it makes taking images of moving things so much better. No overheating issues even though temperatures in the UK has been quite warm 30 degrees yesterday.

The biggest gripe I have is setting the cards up to save what I want to each card and then trying to import onto my MAC when Lightroom doesn't support CR3 RAW files.  I used to have 2 cards in the 7d MKII which was pretty easy to set up but even following the manual I cant seem to get it how I want. I know it's not supposed to be a manly thing to do to refer to the manual but I will re read it and try different settings. I downloaded Adobe DNG 12.4 Beta but for some reason it wouldn't recognise my card so I resorted to importing as JPEG. Not great. Come on Adobe get this plug in sorted!

Update
I was going to upload one of the 1st images I took after setting the R5 up, using animal AF. It's not an amazing picture from a composition perspective but as she is a black Labrador with very dark eyes, I have always had issues taking decent pictures that show the coat and eyes well. I'm quite please as a 1st attempt, especially as the background is quite a contrast to her coat. The eyes are in perfect focus and can be enlarged so that one eye fills the screen and is still pin sharp. Something I could never do with the R.

I tried uploading the image but it tried and told me the image was too large. I could reduce the size but sort of defeats the object really. I give up lol.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 2, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> So buy a video centric hybrid.


I have two. Canon marketed this camera’s video specs pretty hard so it got video centric users interested. Thought it would make a good B can. Quit excusing shady PR.


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## Baron_Karza (Aug 2, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Ok, but I think all you villagers with pitchforks and flaming torches are actually going to do more harm to yourselves than you realize.
> 
> Carry on with the burning and shooting down in flames.



How, if Canon fixes the heating issue in the next iteration???


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## adigoks (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> I care about video.


if canon not good? why choose canon? sony is definitely for you. if you have bunch of EF lens you can use MC11 adapter in it. and enjoy your videography. 
if you like canon in general but not this R5. sadly you must wait for another camera release from canon.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 2, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Ok, but I think all you villagers with pitchforks and flaming torches are actually going to do more harm to yourselves than you realize.
> 
> Carry on with the burning and shooting down in flames.





Baron_Karza said:


> How, if Canon fixes the heating issue in the next iteration???





privatebydesign said:


> Ok, but I think all you villagers with pitchforks and flaming torches are actually going to do more harm to yourselves than you realize.
> 
> Carry on with the burning and shooting down in flames.


Not part of any villager mob but you can continue to let Canon walk all over you as you point the finger. Buying power is critical and those looking for a hybrid solution truly capable of video will find it, if not Canon then definitely with one of the competitors. Criticism is incredibly important or things will never be improved. You implying Canon will listen then do something to “hurt” us is incredibly worrisome of the brand’s reputation.


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## Baron_Karza (Aug 2, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> So buy a video centric hybrid.



Canon is the ONLY camera company that has a STILLS camera with 8-Freaking-K in it! 
Why on earth put EIGHT KAAAAAAY in a stills camera and then say it is not video centric? Because if this camera is not for serious video making, then putting 8K in there is just a gimmick.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 2, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> Canon is the ONLY camera company that has a STILLS camera with 8-Freaking-K in it!
> Why on earth put EIGHT KAAAAAAY in a stills camera and then say it is not video centric? Because if this camera is not for serious video making, then putting 8K in there is just a gimmick.


THIS


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## privatebydesign (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> I have two. Canon marketed this camera’s video specs pretty hard so it got video centric users interested. Thought it would make a good B can. Quit excusing shady PR.


I’m not excusing anything. I am saying the response is out of proportion and will have knock on impacts we might regret.

Things like undoctored RAW files, Canon have been criticized for being “uncompetitive” in DR when they actually were competitive, so now they are doing what other companies do and we, as knowledgeable and intelligent consumers, suffer.


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## davidhfe (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Correction: They built a stills camera with great AF that overheats while taking stills making the “cutting edge” 8k and HQ modes unusable in “hybrid” scenarios. They marketed the 8K30 and 4K120 as if it were actually usable. They only released the overheat times after we questioned them days after preorders started. Stop making excuses for a shady PR team. There is nothing cutting edge having to wait 2 hours for 20 minutes of record time (if you’re not taking stills).



Nobody is making excuses for Canon PR around here. IMO they blew it on the announcement of the HFR and 8K RAW.

But you have to separate how what you were promised vs what you’re getting. If Canon had announced the R5 as a 4k30 camera with 10 bit 422 internal and over HDMI YouTube would be way quieter. By all accounts Canon has released the best all around package in this class (vs Z7/A7R4) with a bit of “first gen” issues with battery life and 10 year old lenses.


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## BeenThere (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> I have two. Canon marketed this camera’s video specs pretty hard so it got video centric users interested. Thought it would make a good B can. Quit excusing shady PR.


No excuses! Love it or leave it. Your choice.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 2, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> Canon is the ONLY camera company that has a STILLS camera with 8-Freaking-K in it!
> Why on earth put EIGHT KAAAAAAY in a stills camera and then say it is not video centric? Because if this camera is not for serious video making, then putting 8K in there is just a gimmick.


Anybody expecting genuine unrestricted 8k from Canon in a sub $4,000 camera is an idiot.


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## blackcoffee17 (Aug 2, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> Canon is the ONLY camera company that has a STILLS camera with 8-Freaking-K in it!
> Why on earth put EIGHT KAAAAAAY in a stills camera and then say it is not video centric? Because if this camera is not for serious video making, then putting 8K in there is just a gimmick.



Why is a gimmick? How many times you need over 20 minutes of shooting? Seriously!
You can do amazing things with 5-10 minute 8K shots.


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## davidhfe (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Not part of any villager mob but you can continue to let Canon walk all over you as you point the finger. Buying power is critical and those looking for a hybrid solution truly capable of video will find it, if not Canon then definitely with one of the competitors. Criticism is incredibly important or things will never be improved. You implying Canon will listen then do something to “hurt” us is incredibly worrisome of the brand’s reputation.



Totally agree with the buying power stuff. Speak with your wallet for sure; forum posts are cheap. And again, Canon borked the PR here.

But, and this is an honest question, what competitor would you suggest people buy if they like the R5’s photo capabilities but are unhappy with the video?


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## HotPixels (Aug 2, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> But this storm in a teacup is going to have real impact on the future releases from Canon. The R5 is the best and most capable stills camera they have ever made, by far, it is also pushing the boundaries of video capabilities and the ‘normal’ video specs are comparable to what we are used to, yet Canon are being destroyed for releasing it. Which means they won’t do it again and to appease the bullshit they will focus more and more on video performance that most buyers simply don’t care about.



Really smart comment. A few thoughts, including some inspired by comments on other sites:
The R5 video specs as you note are really in line with all other hybrids. They push the frontier on things like 8K but no one else has that. Yet they are punished for that by some Youtube reviewers, who otherwise have accepted Sony overheating for years without complaint. Their reasoning: well, at least Sony is pushing the boundaries.
I think this has been a planned social media strategy by Sony and their Youtube/vlogger community. It's too coordinated. Someone else pointed out how the Sony Youtubers generally don't compare their new camera with its natural competition, the S1H. And these Youtubers all of a sudden care most about heat dissipation and long record times, when they have made do with Sony limitations for years. 
There was that one guy, Gerald Undone, who's gotten a lot of notice. But someone pointed out how before the A7SIII was even announced, he posted a comparison on his Twitter of two 12MP A7SII photos, and he couldn't yet say they were taken with that camera, and the same image taken by the R5. The point he was trying to make was that 12MP was good enough for stills. So even before the A7SIII was announced he went in with a plan. 

Also someone else pointed out how Youtube reviewers have skewed the entire way a camera is reviewed. They tend to review based on how they use a camera, which is naturally mostly for video. But they put out reviews to get photographers to watch and get them more views. So serious stills cameras like the Fuji GFX100 and the Leica SL2 end up being reviewed by them more for their video capabilities than for the stills. Because people enjoy watching well produced and easy to watch video content, these Youtube reviewers end up influencing the way a camera is reviewed and thought of moreso than it really should be.


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## adigoks (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> THIS


i know you kinda upset with all bad reception R5 had across the internet. but canon need to make some noise wether its good or bad.

after those hype cleared up we might come to a good conclusion.


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## slclick (Aug 2, 2020)

So I just utilize the My Menu settings completely, ignore the video functions and be happy as a clam? I can do that. Ok, I will wait for the refurbs to show up next year. I'm good.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 2, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Anybody expecting genuine unrestricted 8k from Canon in a sub $4,000 camera is an idiot.


So why did they market it as an 8K full frame camera?


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## privatebydesign (Aug 2, 2020)

slclick said:


> So I just utilize the My Menu settings completely, ignore the video functions and be happy as a clam? I can do that. Ok, I will wait for the refurbs to show up next year. I'm good.


Just saw an opportunist unopened R5 on Craigslist, for $5,000!


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## landon (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> I have two. Canon marketed this camera’s video specs pretty hard so it got video centric users interested. Thought it would make a good B can. Quit excusing shady PR.


I agree. First Canon PR says R5 is a 5div equivalent. Should have left it at that. 
No, they tout the 4k120, 8k30. 

Prior to R5/A7siii release. The pana bois were about to trade in their system for one of these great autofocus video camera. Some pre-order the R5 thinking they'll have the chance to be the next Spielberg with 8k30 usage on a budget. Quality wedding video work, quality documentary work. Some people even bought RF glasses, in anticipation of the miracle video camera. 
Then the overheating saga started. The 30mins recording limit is still there. Then the A7siii was announce. Boom, all hyped for video camera follow it.

The R5 was supposed to bring exCanon users back. It's not going to bring anyone back now. In fact it's an embarrassment for video realm.
Had Canon PR not tout its video capabilities to kingdom come, people will wait for a proper R1-pro with little fuss. 
But now people want what PR hyped for months, in this tiny R5 body.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> So why did they market it as an 8K full frame camera?


BECAUSE IT IS! They never said you could shoot a movie on it, they never said it was designed for long form use. It is a sub $4,000 small hybrid. Maybe my mistake is I live in the real world, I never expected more from the R5 and Canon never promised more so I don’t really understand people’s dismay and anger.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 2, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> Totally agree with the buying power stuff. Speak with your wallet for sure; forum posts are cheap. And again, Canon borked the PR here.
> 
> But, and this is an honest question, what competitor would you suggest people buy if they like the R5’s photo capabilities but are unhappy with the video?


They’d need to buy two cameras... like we’ve always had to do. Canon gave false hope that this body could eliminate that need for 2020-2021. Maybe it’s not possible, I don’t know.


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## BuffaloBird (Aug 2, 2020)

As someone who has shot 7D IIs and 5DsRs and currently shoots the 5D IV and an EOS R (and one who has shot about 20 minutes of video in the last five years), I cannot wait for my R5 to arrive this week! Super excited.


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## SteveC (Aug 2, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> [Canon] are *******?



Entropy always increases, mass-energy is conserved, the speed of light in a vacuum is always 299,792,458 metres per second, and Canon is always *******.

You must not have taken a physics class.

All kidding aside, I agree with your point.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 2, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> BECAUSE IT IS! They never said you could shoot a movie on it, they never said it was designed for long form use. It is a sub $4,000 small hybrid. Maybe my mistake is I live in the real world, I never expected more from the R5 and Canon never promised more so I don’t really understand people’s dismay and anger.


How much longer you going to hold on to your argument? You can’t shoot ANY 8K if you’re doing anything else on that camera, including shooting stills. Need two hours to cool it down. I was betting on great 4K, and even that is severely limited if at all usable when utilizing this as a true hybrid. You’re describing a shady PR team btw. 

“Canon said it was 8K!... they just never disclosed if it would actually work! “


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 2, 2020)

BuffaloBird said:


> As someone who has shot 7D IIs and 5DsRs and currently shoots the 5D IV and an EOS R (and one who has shot about 20 minutes of video in the last five years), I cannot wait for my R5 to arrive this week! Super excited.


This camera is definitely for you and I’m excited for you! I imagine all stills photographers will fall in love with the AF this camera provides at 45MP. I don’t know what you shoot, but I know you’ll enjoy shooting it.


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## reef58 (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Not part of any villager mob but you can continue to let Canon walk all over you as you point the finger. Buying power is critical and those looking for a hybrid solution truly capable of video will find it, if not Canon then definitely with one of the competitors. Criticism is incredibly important or things will never be improved. You implying Canon will listen then do something to “hurt” us is incredibly worrisome of the brand’s reputation.



I kinda of get your point, but that being said the camera doesn't really have a peer. If you are a pro and love the video specs you can buy more than one and keep on shooting. What else gives you 8k? Most reviewers report the 4khq is top notch. Is the Nikon z7 better? What about the A7R4? Which camera is better all around than this camera?


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## Bert63 (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> If you don’t want negative PR don’t market the camera dishonestly? Pretty simple.




If you don’t want negative PR, find a way to keep idiot YouTubers from grabbing one item off a possible features list LONG BEFORE any official announcement about anything, and driving it into the ground before the fruit is even ripe. YouTubers overhyped 8K before Canon even opened it’s mouth. Period.

Fixed it for you.


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## Juangrande (Aug 2, 2020)

Sharlin said:


> I wonder how much one could reduce the cooldown time by using something like a small Peltier-cooled travel fridge or similar device. Also, how much effect removing the lens has. How about a Peltier cooler that you can mount on the camera in place of a lens?!


I keep hearing people talking about cooling the camera in a fridge. Wouldn’t that rapid change cause condensation inside the camera? Especially with the lens off.


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## Bert63 (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Not part of any villager mob but you can continue to let Canon walk all over you as you point the finger. Buying power is critical and those looking for a hybrid solution truly capable of video will find it, if not Canon then definitely with one of the competitors. Criticism is incredibly important or things will never be improved. You implying Canon will listen then do something to “hurt” us is incredibly worrisome of the brand’s reputation.



Is someone holding a gun to your head and making you order anything from Canon?


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 2, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> Is someone holding a gun to your head and making you order anything from Canon?


No gun to my head. I have other cameras, but I did invest in RF thinking Canon would deliver so that’s my bad I guess? It amazes me how so many stand by Canon 100%


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 2, 2020)

reef58 said:


> I kinda of get your point, but that being said the camera doesn't really have a peer. If you are a pro and love the video specs you can buy more than one and keep on shooting. What else gives you 8k? Most reviewers report the 4khq is top notch. Is the Nikon z7 better? What about the A7R4? Which camera is better all around than this camera?


I agree. The 4kHQ downsampled from the 8K is amazing and is honestly my favorite part of the video specs. If they can alleviate the overheating there, I think everyone would be a lot more forgiving but it’s highly unlikely for this gen. Maybe next gen will have better heat dissipation. I’m sure it’s incredibly hard given the amount of processing power required and the great weather sealing.


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## Baron_Karza (Aug 2, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Anybody expecting genuine unrestricted 8k from Canon in a sub $4,000 camera is an idiot.



no one was expecting that. 

and stop calling names


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## Baron_Karza (Aug 2, 2020)

blackcoffee17 said:


> Why is a gimmick? How many times you need over 20 minutes of shooting? Seriously!
> You can do amazing things with 5-10 minute 8K shots.



Uhhhh....I guess you need to re-read my short-straight to the point- easy to understand post.


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## Jonathan Thill (Aug 2, 2020)

My workflow has not changed at all with the R5 and I am super happy with the Camera. Shame the focus is on what it can't do and not what it can.

Editing 8K just laughs at my PC so I am transcoding
The standard 4K looks as good or better then the 4K out of my EOS R and no crop.
The 1.6 Crop 4K looks much better than the cropped EOS R 4K
Punching in on the 8K looks awesome - I think I am going to try and setup a 5min clip using the 15-35 with the goal of having 3 or 4 "scenes" all recorded at the same time and just punch in to create scene isolation. I think the detail is there to do it, pass or fail it will be fun to mess with.
8K is nuts to work with Example this clip 



 took 2 hours to show up on Youtube as 8K. It is just to test the upload time of 12secs 8k and not a good video, but I have never had 8K before so it still seems cool to me.
The R5 is everything "I" wanted from a Canon Pro body so I am going to be happy.


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## reef58 (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> No gun to my head. I have other cameras, but I did invest in RF thinking Canon would deliver so that’s my bad I guess? It amazes me how so many stand by Canon 100%



I am not sure anyone is standing by Canon 100% we are just being realistic. Keep in mind if you want to shoot 8k raw video you get about 13 minutes of record time with a 256gb card. 1tb gets you less than one hour. 1tb per hour is going to generate a lot of heat, and require massive storage requirements. It seems all of a sudden everyone wants to go out and film terabytes of data daily, and are now pitching fit that they can't. If I wanted to go out and film for two hours, that would be approximately 3 Tb's of data. What are you going to record all of this to? Are you going to change out memory cards every 15 to 20 minutes, or will you be using an external recorder? If the latter then you can keep recording. Either the camera works for you or it doesn't.

I have my issues with Canon myself mainly right now my 1dx3 is getting the crap kicked out of it(not really but kinda) by the r6 at less than 1/2 the price. I am hoping for some firmware updates for the mk3 for use in live view


----------



## adigoks (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> No gun to my head. I have other cameras, but I did invest in RF thinking Canon would deliver so that’s my bad I guess? It amazes me how so many stand by Canon 100%


here is a good news for you.
RED release RED KOMODO with RF mount. it also have AF. and its priced around 5000-6000$.
.
if R5 become perfect as you imagine. RED KOMODO is just DOA.


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## scyrene (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> They’d need to buy two cameras... like we’ve always had to do. Canon gave false hope that this body could eliminate that need for 2020-2021.



Did they? Or did you just read too much into pre-release hype?


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## HotPixels (Aug 2, 2020)

reef58 said:


> I am not sure anyone is standing by Canon 100% we are just being realistic. Keep in mind if you want to shoot 8k raw video you get about 13 minutes of record time with a 256gb card. 1tb gets you less than one hour. 1tb per hour is going to generate a lot of heat, and require massive storage requirements. It seems all of a sudden everyone wants to go out and film terabytes of data daily, and are now pitching fit that they can't. If I wanted to go out and film for two hours, that would be approximately 3 Tb's of data. What are you going to record all of this to? Are you going to change out memory cards every 15 to 20 minutes, or will you be using an external recorder? If the latter then you can keep recording. Either the camera works for you or it doesn't.


The complaints are intentionally misleading. It's a social media strategy by Sony vloggers/Youtubers. They know that no other camera does 8K. They know how great 8K looks. They know they can do great stuff with even one minute of 8K, and that 20 min of 8K for this type of camera is amazing. But they have their Sony talking points. They just happen to have found the religion of "no overheating" whatsoever when Sony releases a camera that touts "no overheating." 
Even then the Sony appears to overheat in some circumstances. 

If Sony had included 8K in any camera these Youtube reviewers would be singing its praises, no matter what the thermal limits were. So let's not be naive. This is not an argument based on facts and logic. This is a guerrilla marketing strategy.


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## Kit. (Aug 2, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> Canon is the ONLY camera company that has a STILLS camera with 8-Freaking-K in it!
> Why on earth put EIGHT KAAAAAAY in a stills camera and then say it is not video centric?


Because they can?


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## scyrene (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> No gun to my head. I have other cameras, but I did invest in RF thinking Canon would deliver so that’s my bad I guess? It amazes me how so many stand by Canon 100%



With respect, and everybody's different, I would never do it that way round. If I get an RF mount camera, it will be body before lenses. I can adapt my EF lenses with no problem. Getting one or more RF lenses before a body has been released that suits my needs would be... putting the cart before the horse, to resurrect an old phrase.


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## sdz (Aug 2, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Anybody expecting genuine unrestricted 8k from Canon in a sub $4,000 camera is an idiot.



Here is the list of Canon competitors offering unrestricted 8K in a sub-$4,000 camera:








It's a long one, isn't it?


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## Go Wild (Aug 2, 2020)

Ramage said:


> My workflow has not changed at all with the R5 and I am super happy with the Camera. Shame the focus is on what it can't do and not what it can.
> 
> Editing 8K just laughs at my PC so I am transcoding
> The standard 4K looks as good or better then the 4K out of my EOS R and no crop.
> ...


Great!!  

People are just getting crazy with so much "garbage" and misleading information. I think it´s time to people stop listening to this "so called influencers" and try to think by their own head and experiences. This conversation of overheating it´s just STUPID and I am so tired of it! 

1 - If you think the camera it´s not for you don´t buy it! 
2 - If you don´t want the camera to overheat film in regular 4k or 1080p 
3 - If you do want THE BEST 4K IN THE MARKET just use an external recorder. Period. 
4 - If you are in a major production or need to film for a lot of hours, just buy 2 or 3 R5 or you can also buy a 20.000$ cinema camera. But stop complaining about this overheating issue! 

Unfortunately the postmail got late in deliveries so I am only going to have my precious R5 tomorrow. I will be filming with the atomos shogun inferno an I will be happy to show that this camera is superb! 

For 3800$ you will get a remarkable stills camera! You will get a remarkable video camera (best 4K in the market, stunning 4k120fps, 8k!!!!) You will get the best AF in the market with a fantastic Eye af and animal eye af! Dual pixel AF....

So please just stop this overheating nonsense created by youtubers that need this kind of bulls+++t to create content to sell. Most of the things I see in youtube is praising and praising A7s3 from Sony youtubers. Damn they even score the A7s3 like the "masterpiece"...The technologic masterpiece! If Sony A7s3 is a masterpiece what the heck is the R5???? Because it´s a WAY BETTER CAMERA than the A7s3....

This review from the dpreview is the ONLY complete review i have seen from all the "best" youtubers and I wonder Why it is? Why are not more complete reviews? I tell you why, because this camera is huge and they don´t want to highlight a camera from Canon. Only problems...problems...But wait...this one doesn´t have any problem! So they needed to create a problem with overheating. 

Now I am not saying this wont be an issue we need to be careful. But it´s clearly time to stop this stupid thing of the boogie man!!! 

Enjoy your camera I will enjoy mine tomorrow!


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## drama (Aug 2, 2020)

HotPixels said:


> Really smart comment. A few thoughts, including some inspired by comments on other sites:
> The R5 video specs as you note are really in line with all other hybrids. They push the frontier on things like 8K but no one else has that. Yet they are punished for that by some Youtube reviewers, who otherwise have accepted Sony overheating for years without complaint. Their reasoning: well, at least Sony is pushing the boundaries.
> I think this has been a planned social media strategy by Sony and their Youtube/vlogger community. It's too coordinated. Someone else pointed out how the Sony Youtubers generally don't compare their new camera with its natural competition, the S1H. And these Youtubers all of a sudden care most about heat dissipation and long record times, when they have made do with Sony limitations for years.
> There was that one guy, Gerald Undone, who's gotten a lot of notice. But someone pointed out how before the A7SIII was even announced, he posted a comparison on his Twitter of two 12MP A7SII photos, and he couldn't yet say they were taken with that camera, and the same image taken by the R5. The point he was trying to make was that 12MP was good enough for stills. So even before the A7SIII was announced he went in with a plan.
> ...



super valid. Agree this was a clear Sony strategy to invite comparison and ask for favorable views in exchange for product. It’s the 21st century, let’s see if it pays off for them, and if the youtubers make a gain from it or if they take a dive for looking like they’ve been bought.

One thing is for sure, I can’t read much more of “Gerald undone” in serious tones. What a stupid screen name and what an awful theme tune to an otherwise good channel that has obviously been swayed by Sony donating product.


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## Juangrande (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Correction: They built a stills camera with great AF that overheats while taking stills making the “cutting edge” 8k and HQ modes unusable in “hybrid” scenarios. They marketed the 8K30 and 4K120 as if it were actually usable. They only released the overheat times after we questioned them days after preorders started. Stop making excuses for a shady PR team. There is nothing cutting edge having to wait 2 hours for 20 minutes of record time (if you’re not taking stills).


I used to shoot weddings for a number of years and I never shot more than 30 seconds of video at a time, often less, like 5-10 second clips of the kiss at the alter, cake cutting etc.. these were usually added to an Animoto slide show for an extra surprise element or for social media posting. And those instances were often at least 30- 60 minutes apart. So in that hybrid scenario overheating would be a non issue. I was hired primarily as a stills shooter and there was a video guy (sometimes partners with me) who shot the video and guess what, he shot with a VIDEO camera! Right tool for the job. Most professionals have a second body with them at all times and if your a true hybrid shooter (50/50 workflow) then why not have a body for stills and a body for video. I think we’ll see RF Lens capability in future cinema bodies soon. Or a video centric R body. I personally don’t think trying to cram a high end video camera into a stills camera specced body Is the best idea because it means there’s gonna be compromises. Which’s fine if like in my scenario you just need to grab a few clips here and there. But if your primarily shooting video then get a video camera and do the job right. Or at least a more video centric hybrid body, which is what Sony has attempted in their latest offering, which by the way because it’s focused on video performances it had to take a massive hit on stills capabilities. One body trying to do everything will have to comprise. Btw I’ve heard even the new Sony is having some overheating issues as well. I think the breakthrough that needs to happen is in the processing on the chips and the cards. The technology needs to advance to more energy efficient processing that doesn’t get so
Damn hot. Maybe that can be somewhat corrected in processing algorithms rather than hardware.


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## HotPixels (Aug 2, 2020)

Kit. said:


> Because they can?



Yes, remember when Canon put HD in the 5D Mark II? Certainly wasn't meant to suggest it was a video centric camera, it was an extra feature. Of course it led to a revolution and is the reason why we have hybrid cameras today. Same with 8K in the R5. It's an extra feature that pushes the boundaries forward. It is the start. And mark my words, you will have some really creative people find ways to use the 8K in all kinds of surprising ways. Then it will really start to catch on, like HD video did with the 5D Mark II. 

Remember too the 5D Mark II had a video recording limit of 12 minutes. It's just that we didn't have the guerrilla marketing of Sony around at the time or else they would have complained about the 12 min limit of the 5D Mark ii.


----------



## sdz (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> So why did they market it as an 8K full frame camera?


Because it is an 8K FF camera.


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## HotPixels (Aug 2, 2020)

BTW the best way to overcome the negative guerrilla marketing campaign against the R5 will be for content creators to put out some really compelling video made with it, esp. the 8K mode. That will have impact on the Youtube community.


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 2, 2020)

scyrene said:


> With respect, and everybody's different, I would never do it that way round. If I get an RF mount camera, it will be body before lenses. I can adapt my EF lenses with no problem. Getting one or more RF lenses before a body has been released that suits my needs would be... putting the cart before the horse, to resurrect an old phrase.


I have an EOS R.


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## Bert63 (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> No gun to my head. I have other cameras, but I did invest in RF thinking Canon would deliver so that’s my bad I guess? It amazes me how so many stand by Canon 100%




Yes. It’s is YOUR bad. Your choice. No one else’s. I am a loyal Canon customer but I’m not blind to obvious shortcomings. Unlike a large majority of the population though (or so it seems) I don’t believe the hype of the YouTubers and influencers as if they are somehow the be-all, end-all when it comes to information. I actually think the opposite.

I preordered the R5 as a stills camera and I’m excited to get it and see if it does what I hope it will. If it doesn’t, I’ll return it but from a stills perspective the reviews are solid. If I cared about video I guess I’d go Sony but I don’t so that’s a problem solved.

It amazes me that people listen to the YouTube garbage and base their expectations off SWAGs instead of waiting until the camera is actually available to see what it will do.

I’m still searching links to see where Canon overhyped 8K or any other feature of this camera. They said it will do 8K and it will. they listed the features one by one and fools and their imaginations did the rest.

Bugatti advertises that the Chiron can do 250MPH or higher but they don’t tell you all the things you have to do to get there or what limitations it causes when you do it. It’s up to the buyer to decide if those limitations are livable. I don’t see anyone standing in the Bugatti dealership screaming about limitations because some YouTuber misled them.

If you want to get mad at someone, get mad at the people supposing things and imagining things that may or may not be possible before the camera is even available.

No company is perfect but Canon has never let me down. Show me the camera out there right now that the Canon R5 “should have been” or gets “beaten by...”

I’ll wait here.


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## adigoks (Aug 2, 2020)

HotPixels said:


> Yes, remember when Canon put HD in the 5D Mark II? Certainly wasn't meant to suggest it was a video centric camera, it was an extra feature. Of course it led to a revolution and is the reason why we have hybrid cameras today. Same with 8K in the R5. It's an extra feature that pushes the boundaries forward. It is the start. And mark my words, you will have some really creative people find ways to use the 8K in all kinds of surprising ways. Then it will really start to catch on, like HD video did with the 5D Mark II.
> 
> Remember too the 5D Mark II had a video recording limit of 12 minutes. It's just that we didn't have the guerrilla marketing of Sony around at the time or else they would have complained about the 12 min limit of the 5D Mark ii.



that 12 min recording limit are gone using magic lantern. imagine R5 with Magic Lantern .


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## privatebydesign (Aug 2, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> no one was expecting that.
> 
> and stop calling names


If people are being idiotic them calling them idiots is factually correct. The out of all context uproar this release has caused is idiotic, and while you might say "no one was expecting that" the limitations those specs alone place on that aspect of the camera are the ONLY criticisms of the camera. Everybody has praised the AF, the DR, the resolution, rolling shutter, image quality, iso performance etc etc etc, the only aspect people are ripping the entire package to pieces on is the 8k and other special video modes.


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## Bert63 (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> So why did they market it as an 8K full frame camera?




Because it is. The unrealistic expectations came from the usual gang of paid idiots on YouTube.


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## zim (Aug 2, 2020)

Ramage said:


> My workflow has not changed at all with the R5 and I am super happy with the Camera. Shame the focus is on what it can't do and not what it can.
> 
> Editing 8K just laughs at my PC so I am transcoding
> The standard 4K looks as good or better then the 4K out of my EOS R and no crop.
> ...


8k or not that grass needs cut


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 2, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> Because it is. The unrealistic expectations came from the usual gang of paid idiots on YouTube.



You know, I actually agree that expectations were unrealistic and that overheating should’ve been expected especially considering past Mirrorless cameras pushing higher end specs at FF but I also think Canon added to these expectations to some degree. Doesn’t matter at this point, it is what it is. Only thing I can hope for to make RF worth it for my use case is a dedicated RF cine cam from Canon. I’d definitely pick up an R5 for stills to work alongside it.


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## Bert63 (Aug 2, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> BECAUSE IT IS! They never said you could shoot a movie on it, they never said it was designed for long form use. It is a sub $4,000 small hybrid. Maybe my mistake is I live in the real world, I never expected more from the R5 and Canon never promised more so I don’t really understand people’s dismay and anger.



We’re living in the same cone of delusion. I actually think that Canon did a good job with the R5 and can’t think of a single camera that even comes close to its capabilities - limitations and all.

But then again, this is the generation of rampaging entitlement and the generation that was never told no now has enough disposable income to bring misery to the masses.


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## Bert63 (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> You know, I actually agree that expectations were unrealistic and that overheating should’ve been expected especially considering past Mirrorless cameras pushing higher end specs at FF but I also think Canon added to these expectations to some degree. Doesn’t matter at this point, it is what it is. Only thing I can hope for to make RF worth it for my use case is a dedicated RF cine cam from Canon. I’d definitely pick up an R5 for stills to work alongside it.




Please explain how CANON added to “expectations” beyond listing specs and limitations...


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## SteveC (Aug 2, 2020)

sdz said:


> Here is the list of manufacturers offering unrestricted 8K in a sub-$4,000 camera:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It can be as long as you want to make it with more "carriage returns."


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## Hector1970 (Aug 2, 2020)

Of all the camera launches the R has to be one of the weirdest. Enormous hype beforehand, mass joy on official announcement and now disappointment over over heating. I know nothing of video but even I expected a small camera to heat up if its doing 8K or high frame rate 4K. I'm not sure if people were expecting miracles. I can't even figure what people are going to be doing with the camera for it to overheat. Just like bad photographers blame their tools it seems like videographers suffer from the same thing. There are very few long sequences in any film or tv program nowadays. If you can't afford a proper 8K camera you have to live with the limitations and be creative around it. Canon has made a mess with the camera launch as its over emphasised the video element. I'm sure alot of buyers might want 8K but very few will use it and most won't be able to process it anyway. They won't even have the memory space for it. Canon needs to remember that most of its buyers are photographers. By pausing on the supply of the R5 to correct 8K video overheating they've left early buyers with a potentially inferior camera to what ever changes they will make. They would have been better off delivering only 4K but they couldn't resist the marketing value of being the first consumer 8K camera (even if it did overheat).
I think the lesson for me in this whole debacle is that camera improvements from now on are marginal and being technically better or more creative is far more important having more FPS or focusing system or 8K video. If you can't make an interesting video in HD, 8K won't be much use to you.


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## Bert63 (Aug 2, 2020)

I ordered my R5 through corporate B&H for the discount available there. I ordered on the day of launch but not early enough to be one of the chosen few.

Just got this from B&H unsolicited:

“I am following up on the above order, in regards to your Canon R5 that you purchased. I spoke to my purchasing team and they advised me, that as of now, we are hoping to receive our next shipment sometime in September. We sincerely apologize for the delay.“

For what it‘s worth. At least it isn’t November..


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## sdz (Aug 2, 2020)

SteveC said:


> It can be as long as you want to make it with more "carriage returns."



I wanted to include every Canon competitor in the list in order to showcase the differences between companies!


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 2, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> Please explain how CANON added to “expectations” beyond listing specs and limitations...



I mean publicizing the specs alone and leading with that on every ad is pretty misleading. 

From Canon’s page: “Canon revolutionized the video industry with the introduction of the EOS 5D Mark II which provided solutions for what was previously seen as improbable - the EOS R5 will again push the boundaries of what filmmakers can do compared to current DSLR and Mirrorless cameras. With Internal, uncropped 8K video shooting at up to 29.97fps, and 4K video shooting at up to 119.9fps, in 4:2:2 10-bit (H.265) Canon Log, and Dual Pixel CMOS AF available in all 8K and 4K modes, image makers worldwide will be able to tell their stories in larger-than-life resolutions. Additional new features include: Internally recorded and uncropped 8K RAW Recording up to 29.97 fps with Dual Pixel CMOS AF, and HDR-PQ Recording (H.265) capability.”

You’ll be hard pressed to find anything about limitations due to heat on their website. 

Peter? 

It’s time to be honest and agree that Canon built up a lot of hype on the R5 for video. Usability is way more important.


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## Bert63 (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> I mean publicizing the specs alone and leading with that on every ad is pretty misleading.
> 
> From Canon’s page: “Canon revolutionized the video industry with the introduction of the EOS 5D Mark II which provided solutions for what was previously seen as improbable - the EOS R5 will again push the boundaries of what filmmakers can do compared to current DSLR and Mirrorless cameras. With Internal, uncropped 8K video shooting at up to 29.97fps, and 4K video shooting at up to 119.9fps, in 4:2:2 10-bit (H.265) Canon Log, and Dual Pixel CMOS AF available in all 8K and 4K modes, image makers worldwide will be able to tell their stories in larger-than-life resolutions. Additional new features include: Internally recorded and uncropped 8K RAW Recording up to 29.97 fps with Dual Pixel CMOS AF, and HDR-PQ Recording (H.265) capability.”
> 
> ...



It’s time to be honest?

I guess it depends on who you are, how long you’ve been around, and how gullible you are when it comes to advertising.

There is nothing in that release that isn’t true, and nothing that I don’t take with a grain of salt. To me common sense dictates - unless somehow you believe that Canon figured out a way to beat physics that no one ever has before...

Then the YouTubers got it and played “what if” until expectations were so high there was no where to go but down...


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 2, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> It’s time to be honest?
> 
> I guess it depends on who you are, how long you’ve been around, and how gullible you are when it comes to advertising.
> 
> ...



There gets to a point where advertising can become insulting to the consumer, gullible or not. Canon withholding the time limitations until after Pre-order day and not even being on their website is dishonest. That’s my opinion. I’m glad Peter was able to say something in his review for it. 

Let me sell you a sports car. 

Awesome, wait where’s the engine?

Oh, no engine, but it’s still a sports car. See? I wrote it on the spec sheet! 

What YouTuber specifically?


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## slclick (Aug 2, 2020)

Someone's not winning this argument, pass the popcorn


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## Bert63 (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> There gets to a point where advertising can become insulting to the consumer, gullible or not. Canon withholding the time limitations until after Pre-order day and not even being on their website is dishonest. That’s my opinion. I’m glad Peter was able to say something in his review for it.
> 
> Let me sell you a sports car.
> 
> ...



It’s up to the consumer whether or not they’re insulted by advertising - not the other way around. I take the easy way - I don’t believe any of it until whatever it is hits the street and people are using it. Real people - not paid hacks that shill for their favorite brands. YouTubers are not your friends or relatives - they’re in it for a buck. Honestly, if paid YouTube influencers went away tomorrow I would not miss a single one of them. Not a one.

Nothing on the spec sheet is a lie and your analogy is a fail.

The equivalent would be the Bugatti scenario. It’ll do 250, but with a lot of prep and limitations. All that info is in the owner’s manual - it isn’t advertised. The 250MPH is though.

People these days seem to count on other people to tell them if a camera is going to fit their needs or not. If it’s “good enough for them..”

If Canon chooses not to reveal all info until release day that’s fine with me. I have the choice to buy or not to buy and as far as I’m concerned that’s the end of it. Not to mention I have 30 days to send it back at no cost if I don’t like it. TO ME, that’s fair.

I was in the military for 30 years and if nothing else it made me one of the biggest skeptics to ever walk the face of the earth.

Now my 5D4 and my 100L f.2.8 and I are going to go chase bees around the lavender.


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## Jonathan Thill (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> I mean publicizing the specs alone and leading with that on every ad is pretty misleading.
> 
> From Canon’s page: “Canon revolutionized the video industry with the introduction of the EOS 5D Mark II which provided solutions for what was previously seen as improbable - the EOS R5 will again push the boundaries of what filmmakers can do compared to current DSLR and Mirrorless cameras. With Internal, uncropped 8K video shooting at up to 29.97fps, and 4K video shooting at up to 119.9fps, in 4:2:2 10-bit (H.265) Canon Log, and Dual Pixel CMOS AF available in all 8K and 4K modes, image makers worldwide will be able to tell their stories in larger-than-life resolutions. Additional new features include: Internally recorded and uncropped 8K RAW Recording up to 29.97 fps with Dual Pixel CMOS AF, and HDR-PQ Recording (H.265) capability.”
> 
> ...


Usability is really subjective, I think most people will find that the following is true in practice:

*8K is a killer in terms of file size and PC required to work with it. *
*The 8K on the R5 is WAY more usable then the 8K on Sony's, Nikon's, Panasonic and Fuji.*
The Standard 4K on the R is going to work great for people that are still working in 1080 or have been making a living with the EOS R.
The Crop 4K is better quality than the Standard 4K and is not heat limited in 30P and 24P
*The HQ 4K is really good quality but might be limited by heat. *
An Atomos Ninija v will unlock more record times as well as extend some heat restrictions.
As for the marketing, it is the job of these teams to tell THEIR truth and avoid being liable.

"Introducing Canon's new 8K fullframe heat limited, extreme recovering time, Pro STILLS???? (People do not use their phones?) Camera" just does not have the same punch as "Game On"

*Bolded *the areas of heat concern


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## scyrene (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> I have an EOS R.



The way you worded your original comment made it sound like you bought RF lenses in the hope that the next R body would meet your needs precisely, my mistake I guess?


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 2, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> It’s up to the consumer whether or not they’re insulted by advertising - not the other way around. I take the easy way - I don’t believe any of it until whatever it is hits the street and people are using it. Real people - not paid hacks that shill for their favorite brands. YouTubers arenot your friends or relatives - they’re in it for a buck. Honestly, if paid YouTube influencers went away tomorrow I would not miss a single one of them. Not a one.
> 
> Nothing on the spec sheet is a lie and your analogy is a fail.
> 
> ...


Well when the company is not disclosing the time limitations due to heat, one is only left with the option to look at others’ experience with the camera. There are paid ambassadors for sure. Some are not. You must decide who you trust or don’t. I value users like Gerald Undone and the extensive tests he runs to help me make a decision if the camera might work or not. And then I also have 30 days. All these things don’t discount Canon’s lack of willingness to disclose details essential to the consumer. It’s a bad look. 

Well I didn’t mean to imply it as a lie. Let’s count it a fail and use your analogy because it’s better and supports my point that canon choosing to withhold the info is dishonest and insulting to the consumer. Just like a Bugatti, I guess? Lol. 

I’m also a skeptic. And right now I’m skeptical of Canon and their marketing techniques that I highly disagree with yet it’s the case and we must decide to buy it or not. 

As someone focused in video, I’ll wait until something is said by Canon or a better and more usable solution arrives. A stills photographer invested in EF should have an easier decision here.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 2, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> If you don’t want negative PR, find a way to keep idiot YouTubers from grabbing one item off a possible features list LONG BEFORE any official announcement about anything, and driving it into the ground before the fruit is even ripe. YouTubers overhyped 8K Before Canon even opened it’s mouth. Period.
> 
> Fixed it for you.



Bro.. Google canon r5 announcement. It’s literally what Canon led with! Lol. “8K No Crop.” 

Come on now.


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## rbielefeld (Aug 2, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> So Canon built an amazing stills centric hybrid capable of cutting edge video performance not seen in anything else close to this price point that performs as they state it will and who’s stills performance equals or exceeds any other camera and they are *******?
> 
> Just listen to yourselves, God I hate all this crap.


I am with you. I have the R5 and have been shooting it for 2 days now. I have used only EF lenses; my 600 f/4 IS II and an old 400 5.6 non-IS to see how the IBIS works. I have been nothing but stunned in a positive way. Great IBIS on the non-IS lens, awesome AF on all lenses, and super image quality of the 45mp sensor. I am shooting in the baking Florida sun and no over-heating when shooting stills and then short 4k60 vid clips. I generally shoot only 2-3 min. clips and it has worked great so far. I could not be happier at this point. For my type of work it seems like I may have found a real winner at less than 4K dollars. I will take it and run.


----------



## dtaylor (Aug 2, 2020)

Sharlin said:


> I wonder how much one could reduce the cooldown time by using something like a small Peltier-cooled travel fridge or similar device. Also, how much effect removing the lens has. How about a Peltier cooler that you can mount on the camera in place of a lens?!



That points back to the real problem: improper heat conduction away from the DIGIC X. No one can get it to cool down. Armando tried a freaking leaf blower. If the sensor was overheating airflow through the mount (lens off, shutter open) would cool it down in 1m. If there was a physical connection between the DIGIC chip and the body then fans and ice packs would work. People are setting ice packs on it and throwing it in refrigerators and it still takes forever to cool.

What was Canon trying to do? Save money on inert heatsink materials?


----------



## dtaylor (Aug 2, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> So buy a video centric hybrid.



You basically just said *"move to another brand and don't invest in Canon RF glass."* Is that really what Canon wants or needs in this shrinking market?


----------



## BeenThere (Aug 2, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> You basically just said *"move to another brand and don't invest in Canon RF glass."* Is that really what Canon wants or needs in this shrinking market?


I don’t speak for Canon, but they would probably prefer a potential customer to move to another brand Instead of continuously bad mouthing the Canon brand.


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Aug 2, 2020)

rbielefeld said:


> I am with you. I have the R5 and have been shooting it for 2 days now. I have used only EF lenses; my 600 f/4 IS II and an old 400 5.6 non-IS to see how the IBIS works. I have been nothing but stunned in a positive way. Great IBIS on the non-IS lens, awesome AF on all lenses, and super image quality of the 45mp sensor. I am shooting in the baking Florida sun and no over-heating when shooting stills and then short 4k60 vid clips. I generally shoot only 2-3 min. clips and it has worked great so far. I could not be happier at this point. For my type of work it seems like I may have found a real winner at less than 4K dollars. I will take it and run.


Awesome images, thank you for sharing!


----------



## dtaylor (Aug 2, 2020)

blackcoffee17 said:


> Why is a gimmick? How many times you need over 20 minutes of shooting? Seriously!
> You can do amazing things with 5-10 minute 8K shots.



You mean 5-10 minute 8k shots every 2-4 hours depending on weather.


----------



## AlanF (Aug 2, 2020)

rbielefeld said:


> I am with you. I have the R5 and have been shooting it for 2 days now. I have used only EF lenses; my 600 f/4 IS II and an old 400 5.6 non-IS to see how the IBIS works. I have been nothing but stunned in a positive way. Great IBIS on the non-IS lens, awesome AF on all lenses, and super image quality of the 45mp sensor. I am shooting in the baking Florida sun and no over-heating when shooting stills and then short 4k60 vid clips. I generally shoot only 2-3 min. clips and it has worked great so far. I could not be happier at this point. For my type of work it seems like I may have found a real winner at less than 4K dollars. I will take it and run.


I downloaded to look at the files. The STK head on was shot with a Sony 9 II + 200-600mm according to the EXIF. How does the Sony compare with the R5?


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 2, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> You basically just said *"move to another brand and don't invest in Canon RF glass."* Is that really what Canon wants or needs in this shrinking market?


I don’t care if the tool for the job you or I need is a Canon or not. Let each company live and die by the products they make my whole point is the product Canon have made is a remarkable improvement over previous models in every single respect yet is getting slated, there is simply no relation to the camera they have made and the reaction it is receiving. None. This feeding frenzy of denouncement and criticism is out of all proportion to the camera they have made, it is not a dud, it does not need a recall, it does exactly what they say it does which is more than any other camera at the price point. If those capabilities align with your needs you have found the tool you need, if not move on.

Nobody else does 1 second of 8k for well under $4,000.


----------



## BeenThere (Aug 2, 2020)

rbielefeld said:


> I am with you. I have the R5 and have been shooting it for 2 days now. I have used only EF lenses; my 600 f/4 IS II and an old 400 5.6 non-IS to see how the IBIS works. I have been nothing but stunned in a positive way. Great IBIS on the non-IS lens, awesome AF on all lenses, and super image quality of the 45mp sensor. I am shooting in the baking Florida sun and no over-heating when shooting stills and then short 4k60 vid clips. I generally shoot only 2-3 min. clips and it has worked great so far. I could not be happier at this point. For my type of work it seems like I may have found a real winner at less than 4K dollars. I will take it and run.


Nailed the eye focus on these shots. I assume you were using the eye focus option?


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Bro.. Google canon r5 announcement. It’s literally what Canon led with! Lol. “8K No Crop.”
> 
> Come on now.



It does 8K, no crop. Problem? It’s on you.

Come on now?

I must be the only person left on the planet who expects mechanical/electronic realities to exist within the realm of what’s actually possible..

Did you know that repeatedly using the launch mode on the 2008 Nissan GT-R can wreck the transmission? No kidding, it’s right there in the manual. Did you ever see it in advertising? Of course not. All you saw was 0-60 in 3.4. Only a complete idiot would believe that repeatedly abusing the transmission would have no effect. That, or they thought Nissan had somehow overcome the laws of physics.


----------



## dtaylor (Aug 2, 2020)

BeenThere said:


> I don’t speak for Canon, but they would probably prefer a potential customer to move to another brand Instead of continuously bad mouthing the Canon brand.



Try reading their quarterly report and claiming that.

Canon's RF glass, DPAF, full backwards compatibility with EF lenses, color science, and ergonomics meant Canon was setup to *dominate* mirrorless. They just needed the bodies. Which is another way of saying they just needed the DIGIC and sensor readout performance. So they finally get to that level with the 1DX mark III sensor, this new 45mp sensor, and DIGIC X, and release two stellar R bodies. R bodies with specs *that influencers initially didn't believe could be real.* R bodies that Sony guys were drooling over.

And what happens? *Canon apparently forgets to heatsink the DIGIC chip.*

This would be like watching the last moments of a Bulls vs. Jazz game in the 90s. Jazz have been ahead all 4th quarter, the clock is ticking, Michael Jordan squares up and throws the perfect 3 point shot at the buzzer to win the game. *Only the crowd then realizes he threw the ball at the wrong basket.*

Of course Jordan never made a mistake like that. Someone please explain to me: why is Canon making mistakes like that?


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 2, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> It does 8K, no crop. Problem? It’s on you.
> 
> Come on now?
> 
> ...



... You’re late to the party. Taking stills then want to use 8k? 4KHQ? Problem? It’s on Canon. 

I can’t have this exact convo again.Look at the thread. Add a fan. Look how fast I dismantled your physics argument. It doesn’t matter. Not the camera for hybrid video shooters. Simple and plain.


----------



## HotPixels (Aug 2, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Try reading their quarterly report and claiming that.
> 
> Canon's RF glass, DPAF, full backwards compatibility with EF lenses, color science, and ergonomics meant Canon was setup to *dominate* mirrorless. They just needed the bodies. Which is another way of saying they just needed the DIGIC and sensor readout performance. So they finally get to that level with the 1DX mark III sensor, this new 45mp sensor, and DIGIC X, and release two stellar R bodies. R bodies with specs *that influencers initially didn't believe could be real.* R bodies that Sony guys were drooling over.
> 
> ...


How do you know that Canon "forgot to heatsink the DIGIC chip?" It's absurd to think that you can make that judgement. Are you an engineer on this type of product? Have you opened up and examined the camera?

This product is everything that Canon said it would be. The outrage is phony outrage stoked by some Youtubers who may as well work for Sony.


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 2, 2020)

HotPixels said:


> How do you know that Canon "forgot to heatsink the DIGIC chip?" It's absurd to think that you can make that judgement. Are you an engineer on this type of product? Have you opened up and examined the camera?
> 
> This product is everything that Canon said it would be. The outrage is phony outrage stoked by some Youtubers who may as well work for Sony.


Well I do think it’s safe to assume canon was aware of the heat issue back in October from the patented adapter that would help dissipate heat.


----------



## HotPixels (Aug 2, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> You mean 5-10 minute 8k shots every 2-4 hours depending on weather.


Totally misleading. You get 20 min of 8K if you choose it. Most will use at most a few minutes. 

If for some reason you get the heat warning, you can use 4K24 and HD and take stills...same as other cameras.


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 2, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Try reading their quarterly report and claiming that.
> 
> Canon's RF glass, DPAF, full backwards compatibility with EF lenses, color science, and ergonomics meant Canon was setup to *dominate* mirrorless. They just needed the bodies. Which is another way of saying they just needed the DIGIC and sensor readout performance. So they finally get to that level with the 1DX mark III sensor, this new 45mp sensor, and DIGIC X, and release two stellar R bodies. R bodies with specs *that influencers initially didn't believe could be real.* R bodies that Sony guys were drooling over.
> 
> ...




The level of “mistake”, if any, depends wholly on your perspective and expectations.

My expectation was an exceptional stills camera with some video capability on the side. Not a video camera that can also take stills. 

I also thought “wait and see...”

Call me silly.


----------



## Colorado (Aug 2, 2020)

Can somebody make a website that tracks the current "that"s it, Canon is *******, I'm switching to Sony!" flaw in the R5? Because I'm getting dizzy.

First it was that the leaked specs said only 200 shots per battery and people were all like I'm switching to Sony! Only now that the camera is in some (lucky) people's hands they are seeing battery life that is completely fine. I don't see any battery life complaints anymore.

Then it was that the EVF, while improved, is completely inferior to an OVF. A quick video was posted showing it incapable of tracking a BIF. I'm switching to Sony! Only now (over at places like fred miranda) people are posting pics of birds and bees and dragonflies and everyone is raving about animal auto focus. I don't see any EVF complaints anymore.

Then it was the camera overheats. That's it I'm switching to Sony! Glossed over was the fact this was (mainly) about the high end video modes that no other camera offers and more standard video modes remain available.

Then the Sony ARXiiiv7Xii was released and everyone was like THIS is what we mean by hybrid mirrorless. 95% video focused with postage stamp, "social media ready" stills. I'm switching to Sony! If this is the camera you want/need then fine. But I'm an amateur photographer not videographer and 12 MP is not going to cut it.

Then it turns out the new Sony overheats too just not as quickly. Or as quickly, depending on who was doing the tests. The conversation quickly changed to "well yeah, but the Canon doesn't cool down fast enough". That's it, I'm switching to Sony!

Then someone posted an anecdote of the R5 overheating in the desert after 2000+ shots in a couple of hours. If there ever was an advertisement for a 1-series camera it would be taking 2000+ shots of motor cross in a couple of hours in desert.

Now the complaint is while the R5 does seem to be performing to spec, Canon misled us with their teaser ads. I was expecting medium format dynamic range and sharpness, best in class IBIS, best in class auto focus, light weight, infinite battery life, zero lag EVF with the video capabilities of a professional IMAX camera. I was duped into thinking I could shoot a full wedding flip a switch and record an IMAX movie in the same session. Without changing batteries. That's it, I'm switching to Sony!

All these youtube influencers (LOL "influencers") and forum jockeys are once again declaring Canon incompetent and *******. Yet for some reason this "poorly designed", "poorly engineered", "poorly manufactured" camera that has "horrible battery life", "an unusable EVF", and "overheats if not kept in a freezer" is sold out everywhere and it is likely going to be months before I am able to get my hands on one. If everyone that said they are switching to Sony actually, you know, switched to Sony you'd think it wouldn't be selling like hotcakes.

Or maybe, just maybe, these youtube influencers don't influence anything other than their own echo chambers.


----------



## tbintb (Aug 2, 2020)

rbielefeld said:


> I am with you. I have the R5 and have been shooting it for 2 days now. I have used only EF lenses; my 600 f/4 IS II and an old 400 5.6 non-IS to see how the IBIS works. I have been nothing but stunned in a positive way. Great IBIS on the non-IS lens, awesome AF on all lenses, and super image quality of the 45mp sensor. I am shooting in the baking Florida sun and no over-heating when shooting stills and then short 4k60 vid clips. I generally shoot only 2-3 min. clips and it has worked great so far. I could not be happier at this point. For my type of work it seems like I may have found a real winner at less than 4K dollars. I will take it and run.


Beautiful shots! Which park were those taken at?


----------



## HotPixels (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Well I do think it’s safe to assume canon was aware of the heat issue back in October from the patented adapter that would help dissipate heat.


They were aware of it, just like they were aware of the 5DII heating limit of 12 minutes. Canon is a responsible company and unlike Sony doesn't gloss over these things. If anything they are too conservative. 

Sony's have a heat limit...have they released anything to help their customers? Fuji has heat limits; have they released anything? 

What Canon wasn't aware of was that there would be a guerrilla marketing campaign against them by Sony promoters. And that other sites would play along.


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 2, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> The level of “mistake”, if any, depends wholly on your perspective and expectations.
> 
> My expectation was an exceptional stills camera with some video capability on the side. Not a video camera that can also take stills.
> 
> ...


Wait and see then wait again has been the theme with Canon lately. At least for video hybrid shooters. Again, the R5 looks to be an absolute beast for stills. The animal AF is impressive to say the least.


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Aug 2, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> And what happens? *Canon apparently forgets to heatsink the DIGIC chip.*



If you put a heatsink on the chip in an enclosed space it will A.) Take longer for the chip to get hot. This is true. B.) Take much longer for that heat soak heatsink to cool down making the cool down times even longer. A fan will help and we have these on our non weather sealed Cameras but heat is a big issue that we are always fighting on our sealed Cameras. 

I am not going to debate this with you because I know for sure no questions not up for discussion. This is what I work on everyday: 








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Rugged and reliable solution certified for hazardous locations




www.avigilon.com


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 2, 2020)

HotPixels said:


> They were aware of it, just like they were aware of the 5DII heating limit of 12 minutes. Canon is a responsible company and unlike Sony doesn't gloss over these things. If anything they are too conservative.
> 
> Sony's have a heat limit...have they released anything to help their customers? Fuji has heat limits; have they released anything?
> 
> What Canon wasn't aware of was that there would be a guerrilla marketing campaign against them by Sony promoters. And that other sites would play along.


How has Canon handled the heat issue with the R5?


----------



## scyrene (Aug 2, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> But then again, this is the generation of rampaging entitlement and the generation that was never told no now has enough disposable income to bring misery to the masses.



Can we please not make this a generational thing?


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 2, 2020)

Colorado said:


> Can somebody make a website that tracks the current "that"s it, Canon is *******, I'm switching to Sony!" flaw in the R5? Because I'm getting dizzy.
> 
> First it was that the leaked specs said only 200 shots per battery and people were all like I'm switching to Sony! Only now that the camera is in some (lucky) people's hands they are seeing battery life that is completely fine. I don't see any battery life complaints anymore.
> 
> ...




Perfect post.

Please please please f’ing switch already and be done with it. Put a poster of Gerald Undone or Sony Northrop on your wall and call it a day. And cancel your preorders on the way so I can get my R5 faster.


----------



## cornieleous (Aug 2, 2020)

Ramage said:


> My workflow has not changed at all with the R5 and I am super happy with the Camera. Shame the focus is on what it can't do and not what it can.
> 
> Editing 8K just laughs at my PC so I am transcoding
> The standard 4K looks as good or better then the 4K out of my EOS R and no crop.
> ...



I'm pretty happy too. Have put it through some extra stills and video paces with all the controversy to make sure it is solid, and no show stoppers yet.

Have you tried the automatic in camera proxies to speed editing of the 8K? I don't even have fast enough cards yet to try. Hoping that works as well as described. I'm also curious about the Wifi transfer of data. I'm lazy and it would be cool to not pull cards in and out of a card reader all the time.

I can run more 4K60 than I ever will need, and I was pleased with how long I got vs. the spec sheet after heating the camera in direct sun for over an hour. Cool down for me after thermal shutdown was only 20-30 mins in air conditioning with moderate airflow, so I think anything I may ever expect from it is covered. The 4K60 eats cards fast! 50GB in 30 mins. I'll probably use this rarely for more than several minutes at a time. 4K30 was a more reasonable 6.5GB and makes better sense for most longer shooting I would do.

The other night I did focus tests in the dark and it was about as fast as focusing in daylight; that is just fun. Where any previous model would have hunted forever and had to be manually focused, this was just effortless. For astrophotography, if I use a non-manual lens, I can now use autofocus to set the lens to infinity on a star instead of zooming in and manually focusing using live view. Focusing on foreground in the dark will perhaps no longer require a flashlight/headlamp. I can get handheld shots in the dark that are quite clean up to ISO12800.

My first EVF ever, and seeing what photos will actually look like with high quality display is pretty useful, although not a big fan of the non natural view for some applications. I may always keep a camera about with an optical viewfinder. They have come a long way though, I really didn't like the EVFs that were available just a few years ago, or the one in my Sony NXCAM. Hoping a big eyecup will become available soon.

The AF performance in all modes is pretty amazing and I like that the user doesn't need to do much, it just kind of works.

The IBIS feels almost at a GH5 level for a full frame. For stills or video its a huge improvement. I'm becoming confident I can leave the tripod in the car unless I'm doing truly long exposures now. I'm able to handhold my 24-105 F4L mk1 (the old one with the blah IS) zoomed at 105mm, at 1/8s and get mostly keepers that are 100% sharp. On the 5D4 I can only manage 1/100, so this is nearly 4 stops better.

The less I listen to all the noise, the more I am feeling pretty good with the R5. Hopefully I will not encounter anything unexpected, but I will continue to press it hard during the return window just as a precaution.


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 2, 2020)

scyrene said:


> Can we please not make this a generational thing?



Merely making an observation. It is what it is.


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 2, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> Perfect post.
> 
> Please please please f’ing switch already and be done with it. Put a poster of Gerald Undone or Sony Northrop on your wall and call it a day. And cancel your preorders on the way so I can get my R5 faster.


Criticism is a good thing, Bert. Remember that.


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 2, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> Merely making an observation. It is what it is.


Bert, what are you observing?


----------



## dtaylor (Aug 2, 2020)

HotPixels said:


> How do you know that Canon "forgot to heatsink the DIGIC chip?" It's absurd to think that you can make that judgement.



If the sensor was overheating airflow over the sensor would quickly bring it back down to usable temps. Fans on the sensor after a HQ take do not work, so it's not the sensor. 

If it was the battery, card, or card writer interface then swapping those out would immediately restore some recording time. Swapping them out does nothing.

This basically leaves DIGIC as the point of thermal overload. If the DIGIC processor was properly heat piped to the body you would expect the body...or part of it...to be very hot to the touch after overheating. But people are reporting it's not. You would also expect airflow over the body or ice packs on the body to dramatically reduce cool down times, but they don't seem to. Another wrinkle is that in hot sunlight the R5's recording times don't change much while other cameras take a big hit. (Of course those cameras cool relatively quickly and can be used again while the R5 sits there.) This all points to DIGIC being thermally isolated from the body and the environment.



> This product is everything that Canon said it would be. The outrage is phony outrage stoked by some Youtubers who may as well work for Sony.



Spare me the ad hominem attacks. Reviewers investigating this *want* to love this camera. There is so much to love. But it doesn't matter because the camera can't shed heat fast enough.

If you go back through my comments on this topic you'll find in the beginning I was on the other side. _"Of course there are record limits...every fan-less hybrid has them...laws of physics...if you need 2 hour takes you need a dedicated cine camera with a fan...etc."_ I flipped when the data made it clear that the camera could not cool down and therefore would be *unusable* in typical hybrid scenarios, much less cinema productions. I also speculated, based on stills cutting into record times, that thermal issues would become apparent even while stills shooting, and those reports are starting to trickle in.

There's a problem. Either DIGIC doesn't have a proper heatsink/heat pipe, or it does but the materials are out of spec, or everything is fine there but the body is covered in Owens Corning R25.


----------



## Bert63 (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Criticism is a good thing, Bert. Remember that.



Criticism is fine. We slipped from criticism to echo-chamber whining days ago - especially considering only a tiny fraction of these cameras are in the hands of real people. Not paid ”influencers“ who whore themselves for clicks.


----------



## scyrene (Aug 2, 2020)

rbielefeld said:


> I have the R5 and have been shooting it for 2 days now. I have used only EF lenses; my 600 f/4 IS II and an old 400 5.6 non-IS to see how the IBIS works. I have been nothing but stunned in a positive way. Great IBIS on the non-IS lens, awesome AF on all lenses, and super image quality of the 45mp sensor.



This is really useful to know, thanks! Great shots.


----------



## reefroamer (Aug 2, 2020)

landon said:


> I agree. First Canon PR says R5 is a 5div equivalent. Should have left it at that.
> No, they tout the 4k120, 8k30.
> 
> Prior to R5/A7siii release. The pana bois were about to trade in their system for one of these great autofocus video camera. Some pre-order the R5 thinking they'll have the chance to be the next Spielberg with 8k30 usage on a budget. Quality wedding video work, quality documentary work. Some people even bought RF glasses, in anticipation of the miracle video camera.
> ...


I am looking for where Canon hyped unlimited 8k “to kingdom come” for months and cannot find it. Other than touting the 8k capability, in context, to a relevant convention of broadcasters a few months back, I just don’t find any other official mentions of it by Canon until the announcement this month. And no, they didn’t mention time limitations caused by overheating. No company hypes their limitations. Had Canon ever promised unlimited 8k/4K120p, I would understand the “outrage.” Despite the “reliable” rumors reported on this site, Canon didn’t officially confirm much about the R5/6 until announcement this month. The rest was just guesses. 

Now, there WAS enormous speculation, discussion and rumor-mongering on the Internet About R5 video specs, and great skepticism that such high-res modes could be unlimited with. If you bought into all the unofficial pre-announcement speculative hype, I understand your disappointment. But I just can’t see where Canon deserves to be trounced for bad PR/marketing. I was in corporate PR for years and these kinds of fires are no fun to put out. If it’s not the product for you, simply look elsewhere. Canon and everyone else that’s left someday, will all have unlimited high-res video features. But by then it won’t be important. We'll all have moved on to the next great thing to whine about.


----------



## highdesertmesa (Aug 2, 2020)

A thread discussing a DPR review that reads like the comments section on DPR


----------



## bhf3737 (Aug 2, 2020)

HotPixels said:


> BTW the best way to overcome the negative guerrilla marketing campaign against the R5 will be for content creators to put out some really compelling video made with it, esp. the 8K mode. That will have impact on the Youtube community.


Or even better to ask YouTube self-claimed influencers to show a piece of 8K work that they wanted to do it with R5 but they couldn't and they used a different hybrid sub $4K camera from another manufacturer and they could. That is a way to prove that R5 is not capable. We just need one and only one such example. Is it too much to ask?


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Aug 2, 2020)

cornieleous said:


> I'm pretty happy too. Have put it through some extra stills and video paces with all the controversy to make sure it is solid, and no show stoppers yet.
> 
> Have you tried the automatic in camera proxies to speed editing of the 8K? I don't even have fast enough cards yet to try. Hoping that works as well as described. I'm also curious about the Wifi transfer of data. I'm lazy and it would be cool to not pull cards in and out of a card reader all the time.



I have not, but remember reading that the R5 had this option and I need to mess with that. Thanks



cornieleous said:


> I can run more 4K60 than I ever will need, and I was pleased with how long I got vs. the spec sheet after heating the camera in direct sun for over an hour. Cool down for me after thermal shutdown was only 20-30 mins in air conditioning with moderate airflow, so I think anything I may ever expect from it is covered. The 4K60 eats cards fast! 50GB in 30 mins. I'll probably use this rarely for more than several minutes at a time. 4K30 was a more reasonable 6.5GB and makes better sense for most longer shooting I would do.



Yeah these large bit rates are killer on storage, I do think Canon might have some room to play here and might/should be part of a strategy to extend record times.



cornieleous said:


> The other night I did focus tests in the dark and it was about as fast as focusing in daylight; that is just fun. Where any previous model would have hunted forever and had to be manually focused, this was just effortless. For astrophotography, if I use a non-manual lens, I can now use autofocus to set the lens to infinity on a star instead of zooming in and manually focusing using live view. Focusing on foreground in the dark will perhaps no longer require a flashlight/headlamp. I can get handheld shots in the dark that are quite clean up to ISO12800.



I have not really pushed any low light yet, I did take some shots that I posted earlier at ISO 1600. I know ISO 1600 is nothing these days but for me after using a 7D for so long I am really gun shy of going over ISO 100 to the point I would rather skip the shot then try and push it. I know this is silly but it is hard habit to break out of.



cornieleous said:


> My first EVF ever, and seeing what photos will actually look like with high quality display is pretty useful, although not a big fan of the non natural view for some applications. I may always keep a camera about with an optical viewfinder. They have come a long way though, I really didn't like the EVFs that were available just a few years ago, or the one in my Sony NXCAM. Hoping a big eyecup will become available soon.
> 
> The AF performance in all modes is pretty amazing and I like that the user doesn't need to do much, it just kind of works.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I think all of us that got the Camera in the first batch need to do what we can to iron out the issues as well as help put out some of the "Flames" of misunderstood reports.

I look forward to the day we are all talking about what this Camera can do and not what it can't.


----------



## Skux (Aug 2, 2020)

Looks like Canon finally made the stills-only camera that people were begging for.


----------



## mppix (Aug 2, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> No they won’t. Why would they they are being crucified for making the R5, this negative PR will have a very real impact on the cameras we get moving forwards, expect stills to take a huge back seat to video performance even though the vast majority of buyers, unlike testers and reviewers, don’t give a damn about the video specs.



I'd be fine with that if that means that the next hybrid camera shoots 16K timelapse


----------



## dtaylor (Aug 2, 2020)

bhf3737 said:


> Or even better to ask YouTube self-claimed influencers to show a piece of 8K work that they wanted to do it with R5 but they couldn't and they used a different hybrid sub $4K camera from another manufacturer and they could. That is a way to prove that R5 is not capable. We just need one and only one such example. Is it too much to ask?



Armando Ferreira did a real 8k production with a real team and real actors. He could not shoot everything in 8k and ended up titling a follow up video "The Canon EOS R5 is NOT AN 8K CAMERA!" because of the thermal issues. He is a professional, not a mere "self-claimed influencer."

There is a thermal issue.


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## Kiton (Aug 2, 2020)

rbielefeld said:


> I am with you. I have the R5 and have been shooting it for 2 days now. I have used only EF lenses; my 600 f/4 IS II and an old 400 5.6 non-IS to see how the IBIS works. I have been nothing but stunned in a positive way. Great IBIS on the non-IS lens, awesome AF on all lenses, and super image quality of the 45mp sensor. I am shooting in the baking Florida sun and no over-heating when shooting stills and then short 4k60 vid clips. I generally shoot only 2-3 min. clips and it has worked great so far. I could not be happier at this point. For my type of work it seems like I may have found a real winner at less than 4K dollars. I will take it and run.





Nice!!


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## bhf3737 (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> I mean publicizing the specs alone and leading with that on every ad is pretty misleading.
> [...]
> It’s time to be honest and agree that Canon built up a lot of hype on the R5 for video. *Usability *is way more important.


Usability (similar to many other non-functions) does not have a definite objective meaning and a unique way of measurement. In product development, it is defined by an agreement between the producer and the targetted users. It seems that many users based on their understanding of usability for their workflow have found the R5 body and features usable and are happy with it. 
But for some, it may not be usable due to their understanding and expectations. If R5 is not usable for someone, luckily, she/he has a choice to not purchase it. Simple. 
Unfortunately some people hide behind the overloaded term "serious video user" and say that R5 is not for serious video work. True, Canon has a product-line for serious users and it is called Cinema line. 
The YouTube hype attracts the "pretend serious video users" who want a Go-Pro style camera to set it and forget it for 2-3 hours and shoot 8K and be as cheep as possible. Neither R5 nor Cinema line of Canon is for this group. They do not have a choice either, because no other manufacturer offers what they want (8K format, sub $4K price, 2-3 hours continuous shooting) right now.


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## navastronia (Aug 2, 2020)

With the R5, Canon has over-promised and under-delivered. This isn't exactly a crime against God, but simultaneously, it's upset people who wanted truly useful 8K and 4K HQ modes.

This is not a controversial thing to say, and Canon created this problem themselves. As others have pointed out, if they had marketed the camera as having an 8K "burst mode," etc, they would have avoided a lot of this, because the issue isn't about what the camera can do, it's about the gap between what consumers expect and what they get.

Average Joe Consumer doesn't read Canon telling them the R5 shoots 8K and assume this means "18 minutes, then a 2-hour cooldown," and Canon knows this as well as any of us.

Also: Would those who read this post and say, "but the R5 _does_ what Canon said it would! Technically, it shoots 8K!" also be satisfied with a spouse who *technically* doesn't cheat, but still comes home with lipstick on their collar nightly?


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## mppix (Aug 2, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Anybody expecting genuine unrestricted 8k from Canon in a sub $4,000 camera is an idiot.


Yes, but that is not what the "flames" are about. They are about 4K30HQ and 4K60 overheating and once it does it takes 2h to fully recover [in a camera that promised 8K30 and was preannounced and announced as top level stills AND video tool...]
People were (IMHO understandably) expecting a S1H and A7s3 competitor + that Canon produced a competitive hybrid body. It's not. This is what the 5Div was to its competition at the time - a top of the line stills camera that does some video.


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## reef58 (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> You know, I actually agree that expectations were unrealistic and that overheating should’ve been expected especially considering past Mirrorless cameras pushing higher end specs at FF but I also think Canon added to these expectations to some degree. Doesn’t matter at this point, it is what it is. Only thing I can hope for to make RF worth it for my use case is a dedicated RF cine cam from Canon. I’d definitely pick up an R5 for stills to work alongside it.



Keep in the the "flagship" 1dx3 released this year cannot auto focus in modes the r5 can release just a few months later. Overall I think the r5 and r6 are good cameras, but I am holding out for the replacement for the m50, and the high mega pixel beast that is supposedly coming. I was able to get a loaner 85mm f1.2 from CPS and the 85mm RF lens is probably the sharpest lens I have have dealt with. It was amazi


dtaylor said:


> That points back to the real problem: improper heat conduction away from the DIGIC X. No one can get it to cool down. Armando tried a freaking leaf blower. If the sensor was overheating airflow through the mount (lens off, shutter open) would cool it down in 1m. If there was a physical connection between the DIGIC chip and the body then fans and ice packs would work. People are setting ice packs on it and throwing it in refrigerators and it still takes forever to cool.
> 
> What was Canon trying to do? Save money on inert heatsink materials?



I think the issue is Canon is really being conservative with the thermal management to prolong the life of the electronics. Many have reported the camera didn't feel warm, but they had the shutdown. They may up the shutdown limit by a few degrees. Who knows?


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## bhf3737 (Aug 2, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Armando Ferreira did a real 8k production with a real team and real actors. He could not shoot everything in 8k and ended up titling a follow up video "The Canon EOS R5 is NOT AN 8K CAMERA!" because of the thermal issues. He is a professional, not a mere "self-claimed influencer."
> 
> There is a thermal issue.


Yes, he did it with R5 and worked with the limitations and delivered. He and his team know how to deal with the limitations of their gear, being heat, disk capacity, battery life, lenses, network bandwidth, etc., and build their workflow considering those limitations. That is a positive example for using R5. Let someone show what they CANNOT do with R5 and CAN with other cameras.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 2, 2020)

bhf3737 said:


> Yes, he did it with R5 and worked with the limitations and delivered. He and his team know how to deal with the limitations of their gear, being heat, disk capacity, battery life, lenses, network bandwidth, etc., and build their workflow considering those limitations. That is a positive example for using R5. Let someone show what they CANNOT do with R5 and CAN with other cameras.


I doubt many others would want to put up with that and it looked rather like a hassle and I believe they dropped down to 4kLQ, no? I don’t remember.


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## davidhfe (Aug 2, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Well I do think it’s safe to assume canon was aware of the heat issue back in October from the patented adapter that would help dissipate heat.



Canon patents an awful lot of pretty bonkers stuff. Not a whole lot makes it into production, so I wouldn't read *too* much into the adaptor. All these manufacturers have had issues with thermals in these tiny bodies and are getting creative about how to work around it.


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## dtaylor (Aug 2, 2020)

bhf3737 said:


> Yes, he did it with R5 and worked with the limitations and delivered. He and his team know how to deal with the limitations of their gear, being heat, disk capacity, battery life, lenses, network bandwidth, etc., and build their workflow considering those limitations. That is a positive example for using R5. Let someone show what they CANNOT do with R5 and CAN with other cameras.



It is not a positive example of using the R5 when his team had to drop to LQ 4k and he followed up with a video basically saying the R5 is unusable in HQ video modes due to thermal issues.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 2, 2020)

bhf3737 said:


> Usability (similar to many other non-functions) does not have a definite objective meaning and a unique way of measurement. In product development, it is defined by an agreement between the producer and the targetted users. It seems that many users based on their understanding of usability for their workflow have found the R5 body and features usable and are happy with it.
> But for some, it may not be usable due to their understanding and expectations. If R5 is not usable for someone, luckily, she/he has a choice to not purchase it. Simple.
> Unfortunately some people hide behind the overloaded term "serious video user" and say that R5 is not for serious video work. True, Canon has a product-line for serious users and it is called Cinema line.
> The YouTube hype attracts the "pretend serious video users" who want a Go-Pro style camera to set it and forget it for 2-3 hours and shoot 8K and be as cheep as possible. Neither R5 nor Cinema line of Canon is for this group. They do not have a choice either, because no other manufacturer offers what they want (8K format, sub $4K price, 2-3 hours continuous shooting) right now.


I agree, usability is subjective. I rather dislike pro talk this and serious user that. I don’t think anyone here is talking go pros, could be wrong. I want to record 4kHQ on and off with no potential overheating. I don’t have confidence in the R5 but this could change once I get my hands on one and I’d gladly change my opinion. An Atomos could most likely allow me to achieve my needs at 4KHQ according to Gerald Undone’s test but I would like to test myself... but also, I could just invest in another cine camera. As far as I’m concerned, there’s no usable 8K camera sub $4k worth relying on. Again, this is subjective.


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## Kit. (Aug 2, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> If the sensor was overheating airflow over the sensor would quickly bring it back down to usable temps.


Can you please _calculate how quickly_ that would happen?

(I wonder why people use radiators when they want to dissipate heat by airflow. Should be totally unnecessary, right?)



dtaylor said:


> This basically leaves DIGIC as the point of thermal overload.


Have you tried to swap the magnesium frame?



dtaylor said:


> If the DIGIC processor was properly heat piped to the body you would expect the body...or part of it...to be very hot to the touch after overheating.


Not if you touch it in the area where it's covered by a low thermal conductivity plastic. Your fingers would just rapidly cool it (the exterior of the plastic) down.

Touching bare metal parts would be another story.


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## davidhfe (Aug 2, 2020)

HotPixels said:


> How do you know that Canon "forgot to heatsink the DIGIC chip?" It's absurd to think that you can make that judgement. Are you an engineer on this type of product? Have you opened up and examined the camera?
> 
> This product is everything that Canon said it would be. The outrage is phony outrage stoked by some Youtubers who may as well work for Sony.



Yeah read that one and thought "citation needed"

The thermals on the R5/6 seem to be weird. Hard to tell what the bottleneck is, seems oddly insensitive to ambient temperatures. I'm still surprised that the external recorder makes that big of a difference. Would really love somebody aim a FLIR cam at one while it's shooting 4K120, coupled with some temperature reads from the CF card or inside the battery compartment.

It does seem to be more of a cooling down issue rather than a raw transfer of heat off the component problem though.


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## mppix (Aug 2, 2020)

reef58 said:


> I am not sure anyone is standing by Canon 100% we are just being realistic. Keep in mind if you want to shoot 8k raw video you get about 13 minutes of record time with a 256gb card. 1tb gets you less than one hour. 1tb per hour is going to generate a lot of heat, and require massive storage requirements. It seems all of a sudden everyone wants to go out and film terabytes of data daily, and are now pitching fit that they can't. If I wanted to go out and film for two hours, that would be approximately 3 Tb's of data. What are you going to record all of this to? Are you going to change out memory cards every 15 to 20 minutes, or will you be using an external recorder? If the latter then you can keep recording. Either the camera works for you or it doesn't.
> 
> I have my issues with Canon myself mainly right now my 1dx3 is getting the crap kicked out of it(not really but kinda) by the r6 at less than 1/2 the price. I am hoping for some firmware updates for the mk3 for use in live view



Realistically, Canon is behind Sony in heat dissipation. The internals of both cameras can heat up to about similar temperatures of something in the neighborhood of 80C (maybe up to 105C if pushed). However, Sony's will dissipate its internal heat buildup in 10s of minutes, Canon R5/6 will take hours.
Very likely Canon has a solution but that either was not economically viable or could not be produced at scale at launch time.
In the future, we will likely see different bodies, e.g. frames milled form a solid block of aluminium.
I think mkii can resolve this.

PS. I say this as a 100% Canon shooter and don't particularly car for Sony.


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## Aussie shooter (Aug 2, 2020)

Sounds like the wildlife camera I want. Pity it costs 7k


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## Jonathan Thill (Aug 2, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> Yeah read that one and thought "citation needed"
> 
> The thermals on the R5/6 seem to be weird. Hard to tell what the bottleneck is, seems oddly insensitive to ambient temperatures. I'm still surprised that the external recorder makes that big of a difference. Would really love somebody aim a FLIR cam at one while it's shooting 4K120, coupled with some temperature reads from the CF card or inside the battery compartment.
> 
> It does seem to be more of a cooling down issue rather than a raw transfer of heat off the component problem though.


I am planning to do this, I might head into office Monday and see what one of our thermal cameras is showing.


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## davidhfe (Aug 2, 2020)

mppix said:


> Yes, but that is not what the "flames" are about. They are about 4K30HQ and 4K60 overheating and once it does it takes 2h to fully recover [in a camera that promised 8K30 and was preannounced and announced as top level stills AND video tool...]
> People were (IMHO understandably) expecting a S1H and A7s3 competitor + that Canon produced a competitive hybrid body. It's not. This is what the 5Div was to its competition at the time - a top of the line stills camera that does some video.



I'm splitting hairs here, but The 5D4 comparison is a little rough. The 5D4's video really did feel like an afterthought: Deep crop, MJPEG, poor rolling shutter performance, useless HDMI out. The R5 is a much more competitive package overall, not just adjusted for 4 years of progress. It is better at video than anything else with a 36+ MP sensor in a sealed body. Who knows what sony will throw into a A7R5, but the 4 is less than a year old. The Z7S does not appear to have big video spec bumps slated. I would expect the R5 to hold its ground here for a year or more.


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## davidhfe (Aug 2, 2020)

Ramage said:


> I am planning to do this, I might head into office Monday and see what one of our thermal cameras is showing.



Swear to god you could rack up 50K views on YouTube. Would love to see what the bottom plate reads at—not sure why folks are trying to cool the plastic behind the sensor when there's a metal bottom plate that's, like, actually thermally conductive?


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## scyrene (Aug 2, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> Merely making an observation. It is what it is.



It undermines your otherwise fairly balanced reasoning, but whatever.


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## privatebydesign (Aug 2, 2020)

mppix said:


> Yes, but that is not what the "flames" are about. They are about 4K30HQ and 4K60 overheating and once it does it takes 2h to fully recover [in a camera that promised 8K30 and was preannounced and announced as top level stills AND video tool...]
> People were (IMHO understandably) expecting a S1H and A7s3 competitor + that Canon produced a competitive hybrid body. It's not. This is what the 5Div was to its competition at the time - a top of the line stills camera that does some video.


Don’t be disingenuous , 4k30HQ is 8k, 4k60 with AF, that’s three options from many. You can shoot full frame 4K 30 with AF permanently even AFTER the camera stops you shooting in the higher modes.

Why would anybody with a brain compare the R5 to the A7S III? Canon do not offer a camera in the A7SIII space compare the R5 to the A7R IV, compare the R6 to the A7 III.


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## Random Orbits (Aug 3, 2020)

Hector1970 said:


> Of all the camera launches the R has to be one of the weirdest. Enormous hype beforehand, mass joy on official announcement and now disappointment over over heating. I know nothing of video but even I expected a small camera to heat up if its doing 8K or high frame rate 4K. I'm not sure if people were expecting miracles. I can't even figure what people are going to be doing with the camera for it to overheat. Just like bad photographers blame their tools it seems like videographers suffer from the same thing. There are very few long sequences in any film or tv program nowadays. If you can't afford a proper 8K camera you have to live with the limitations and be creative around it. Canon has made a mess with the camera launch as its over emphasised the video element. I'm sure alot of buyers might want 8K but very few will use it and most won't be able to process it anyway. They won't even have the memory space for it. Canon needs to remember that most of its buyers are photographers. By pausing on the supply of the R5 to correct 8K video overheating they've left early buyers with a potentially inferior camera to what ever changes they will make. They would have been better off delivering only 4K but they couldn't resist the marketing value of being the first consumer 8K camera (even if it did overheat).
> I think the lesson for me in this whole debacle is that camera improvements from now on are marginal and being technically better or more creative is far more important having more FPS or focusing system or 8K video. If you can't make an interesting video in HD, 8K won't be much use to you.



They could have only delivered 4K with a camera with ~45 MP? With that many pixels, you have to process the output to get it to 4K. The Sony A7S3 is designed around 4K and has 12 MP. Sony chose video for A7S3. Canon chose stills. The R5's competitor isn't the A7S3, it's the A7R4. 45 vs. 61 MP, and what can the A7R4 do video-wise? 4K at 30 fps at 8 bit. 8 bit not 10 bit like the Canon, and only up to 30 fps whereas the Canon can do 120 fps. Yes, the R5 has 8K if the USER wants to USE it and has better 4K modes than the A7R4 if the USER wants to USE it at the risk of overheating (where is the A7R4's 4K60 or 4K120?). It won't overheat at regular 4K30. The R6 is better equipped to handle thermal issues than the R5 because it has to do less processing from a 20 MP sensor, but it's still more than the video-optimized A7S3.

Personally, I'd rather have a 45 MP R5 rather than a 12 MP R5 to compete with the Sony A7S3. And I don't think the rumor that Canon is pausing delivery due to heat issues is true, whereas you are asserting it as fact. Canon knew the R5/R6 will overheat, which is why they produced estimated run runs for the different resolutions and rates. That was not a mistake; it was by design. Sony users worked around Sony overheat issues, and I think people that need video will either use a different product, or use external recorders/fans to extend run times.


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## Jethro (Aug 3, 2020)

What I was primarily interested in was the view on the IBIS, including in conjunction with EF lenses, and the verdict seems to be 'best in class' (6 - 8 stops). And autofocus, and low-light, which seems to be similar. In that sense I couldn't be happier with the DPR review. If I suddenly come by lots of money, this would be basically my dream camera.

Having no interest in video (let alone professional productions) I'm less interested in how far the video innovations can be pushed. Apparently the resulting video is (again) fabulous quality, but with strict limitations on the time available to shoot. I don't know, maybe I just missed all the marketing that apparently said this was going to provide unlimited FF 8k (and the higher 4k modes) - and just noticed that it was the ONLY camera in this class offering any 8K at all, after initial responses (on here and elsewhere) to the rumoured specs rubbished that idea because ... wait for it ... it was impossible to achieve FF 8K at all in this sized camera because it would immediately overheat.


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## mppix (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> If the sensor was overheating airflow over the sensor would quickly bring it back down to usable temps. Fans on the sensor after a HQ take do not work, so it's not the sensor.
> If it was the battery, card, or card writer interface then swapping those out would immediately restore some recording time. Swapping them out does nothing.
> 
> This basically leaves DIGIC as the point of thermal overload. If the DIGIC processor was properly heat piped to the body you would expect the body...or part of it...to be very hot to the touch after overheating. But people are reporting it's not. You would also expect airflow over the body or ice packs on the body to dramatically reduce cool down times, but they don't seem to. Another wrinkle is that in hot sunlight the R5's recording times don't change much while other cameras take a big hit. (Of course those cameras cool relatively quickly and can be used again while the R5 sits there.) This all points to DIGIC being thermally isolated from the body and the environment.
> ...


Agree, this is likely what is happening: they reused what were the DSLR cooling solutions (https://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2016/09/lensrentals-canon-5d-mk-iv-teardown/) + the body itself may not have the heat conductivity needed.
Mirrorless likely need a heatpipe/heatspreader.


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## Jonathan Thill (Aug 3, 2020)

mppix said:


> Realistically, Canon is behind Sony in heat dissipation. The internals of both cameras can heat up to about similar temperatures of something in the neighborhood of 80C (maybe up to 105C if pushed). However, Sony's will dissipate its internal heat buildup in 10s of minutes, Canon R5/6 will take hours.
> Very likely Canon has a solution but that either was not economically viable or could not be produced at scale at launch time.
> In the future, we will likely see different bodies, e.g. frames milled form a solid block of aluminium.
> I think mkii can resolve this.
> ...


I think the Sony is a paper cup and the Canon is a thermos. Hold a paper cup with hot water and you feel it in your hand right away, hold a thermos and you do not. 

The Canon is less affected by conditions outside of the sealed internals were the Sony is more impacted.

This allows the Sony to release the internal heat much faster but is also quicker to be affected by the Sun beating down on it. The Sony also recovers faster because once the internal oven is off it starts to cool down right away. The Fuji seems to have a similar design based off Tony's testing.

I think this "thermos" design decision from Canon is driven more by the cold then by heat.

The sealed POE external Cameras I work with do not have fans for the heat but we tend to give them bigger bodies for increased surface area. We do however rate them as POE+ because we have to include heaters for when it gets cold, the cold plays all kinds of havic on PTZ motors, shutters as well as creates fog on the sealed domes.

I think Canon expects that the R5 will see duty in the cold as a Camera and wanted to ensure the shutter can still work. I am merely speculating so take it for what that is worth but I think the design was intentional.

As a hardware tester that has tested hundreds of products over the past 22 years there is no way Canon did not know it would hit thermal limits when pushed. They should have limited the 8K to 5mins and the 4k 120 to 3 mins and 4K 60 to 20mins. People would be pissed but they would have controlled the narrative.

Shame really cause the Camera is perfect for "me"


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## mppix (Aug 3, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Don’t be disingenuous , 4k30HQ is 8k, 4k60 with AF, that’s three options from many. You can shoot full frame 4K 30 with AF permanently even AFTER the camera stops you shooting in the higher modes.
> 
> Why would anybody with a brain compare the R5 to the A7S III? Canon do not offer a camera in the A7SIII space compare the R5 to the A7R IV, compare the R6 to the A7 III.


I strongly agree with the second part so I respectfully return the favor. Don't be disingenuous, this camera should not have marketed as top-level video tool but as a competitor of these cameras. This would have saved us from the comparisons with S1H and A7siii.
Of course if it is a fully capable video tool, its value is $4k (S1H), if it is a primary stills tool, its value is $3k (A7riv, Z7) in the current market.


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## scyrene (Aug 3, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> Yeah read that one and thought "citation needed"
> 
> The thermals on the R5/6 seem to be weird. Hard to tell what the bottleneck is, seems oddly insensitive to ambient temperatures. I'm still surprised that the external recorder makes that big of a difference. Would really love somebody aim a FLIR cam at one while it's shooting 4K120, coupled with some temperature reads from the CF card or inside the battery compartment.
> 
> It does seem to be more of a cooling down issue rather than a raw transfer of heat off the component problem though.



I have a FLIR camera. You buy me an R5 and I'll do the test, deal?


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## scyrene (Aug 3, 2020)

navastronia said:


> Average Joe Consumer doesn't read Canon telling them the R5 shoots 8K and assume this means "18 minutes, then a 2-hour cooldown," and Canon knows this as well as any of us.
> 
> Also: Would those who read this post and say, "but the R5 _does_ what Canon said it would! Technically, it shoots 8K!" also be satisfied with a spouse who *technically* doesn't cheat, but still comes home with lipstick on their collar nightly?



This is a poor metaphor.

Nobody believed 8K would be unlimited, did they? As I keep reminding people, back when the rumour emerged, pretty much nobody believed it would be real, usable 8K. It's more than what people thought, even if it's not what people spun themselves into believing it could be subsequently. Get some perpective - no competitor offers this feature.

Overheating in the R6 and in some other modes is more of an issue - if it's as bad as some people claim. Let's see. But for 8K are you honestly expecting more? Let alone the memory required, the computing power to process it, and the lack of 8K monitors or tvs...


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## Jonathan Thill (Aug 3, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> Canon patents an awful lot of pretty bonkers stuff. Not a whole lot makes it into production, so I wouldn't read *too* much into the adaptor. All these manufacturers have had issues with thermals in these tiny bodies and are getting creative about how to work around it.


We patent everything we can think of, all part of the game.


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## davidhfe (Aug 3, 2020)

scyrene said:


> I have a FLIR camera. You buy me an R5 and I'll do the test, deal?



Yeah about that. Need to get one in *my* hands first. Definitely should have pulled the trigger on that preorder faster!

Looks like I'm going to be spending some quality time with my old 60D for the next month or... four.


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## navastronia (Aug 3, 2020)

scyrene said:


> This is a poor metaphor.
> 
> Nobody believed 8K would be unlimited, did they? As I keep reminding people, back when the rumour emerged, pretty much nobody believed it would be real, usable 8K. It's more than what people thought, even if it's not what people spun themselves into believing it could be subsequently. Get some perpective - no competitor offers this feature.
> 
> Overheating in the R6 and in some other modes is more of an issue - if it's as bad as some people claim. Let's see. But for 8K are you honestly expecting more? Let alone the memory required, the computing power to process it, and the lack of 8K monitors or tvs...



Expecting? I didn't market it, Canon did.


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## dtaylor (Aug 3, 2020)

Kit. said:


> Can you please _calculate how quickly_ that would happen?



It would vary with ambient temperatures and airflow rate but we're talking minutes.



> (I wonder why people use radiators when they want to dissipate heat by airflow. Should be totally unnecessary, right?)



Internal combustion engines are big three dimensional pieces with internal heat build up. An exposed sensor is effectively a 2D piece with its flat surface exposed to air. The sensor is like a radiator in this respect and would respond very quickly to airflow.



> Have you tried to swap the magnesium frame?



That's not a source of heat.



> Not if you touch it in the area where it's covered by a low thermal conductivity plastic.



That would be a thermal design issue in a device like this, wouldn't it?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 3, 2020)

masterpix said:


> Still waiting to hear if Canon will duplicate the R5 into 5Dmark5 (with OVF).


You did hear that there will be no 5D MK IV. Thats the current situation. It might change in a year, but if sales of R5 and R6 are good, it won't happen.









There will not be an EOS 5D Mark V [CR2]


I have been told that the EOS 5D series is going the way of the EOS 7D series. There will be no direct DSLR successor for the EOS 5D Mark IV. The source c



www.canonrumors.com


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## rbielefeld (Aug 3, 2020)

AlanF said:


> I downloaded to look at the files. The STK head on was shot with a Sony 9 II + 200-600mm according to the EXIF. How does the Sony compare with the R5?


Yes, that was meant to be for comparison. The R5 AF is as good or better. The head on shots were always tough to canon cameras in the past given my experience, but it seems to be much better. The animal eye AF is much better than a9II IMO thus far.


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## rbielefeld (Aug 3, 2020)

BeenThere said:


> Nailed the eye focus on these shots. I assume you were using the eye focus option?


Yes, and no. Sometimes Zone AF. The Osprey was animal eye if I remember correctly.


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## mppix (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> It would vary with ambient temperatures and airflow rate but we're talking minutes.


This depends on thermal capacity of the sensor (low), airflow, and local air temperature. Sensors have an filter array in front and there is likely a stagnant air layer between that and the sensor; so there may not be a direct airflow on the sensor. This acts as an isolator. 
I don't think this can be determined without CFD analysis.
However, I agree that the sensor is unlikely the problem area.



dtaylor said:


> [Have you tried to swap the magnesium frame?] That would be a thermal design issue in a device like this, wouldn't?


The frame is likely less thermally conductive than what would be ideal so it traps heat. This is likely part of the problem (together with conducting heat away from the problem spots).


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## Random Orbits (Aug 3, 2020)

Before the 1DX3 came out, I remember rumors of the MP count going up, and when it was released, people were disappointed that it stayed at 20MP. If Canon had been fielding prototypes with different resolutions, I wish Canon had picked something closer to 26-28MP. Perhaps user feedback had pushed Canon to choose 20MP, but since it ended up being used by the R6, something higher would have been nice. Going from 30 in the R to 20 in the r6 is hard to sell. Canon should have tailored mRAW options for photogs that wanted smaller file sizes... just a thought.

Personally, I've been a 5 series guy after using the 5D2 years ago, so I'm opting for the R5. Both the R5 and R6 do 4K video better than the R (which isn't hard). For now, I'll trade in the 5D4 and a few EF lenses for the R5 and retain the R as backup. But I can see looking at the R6 to replace the R once the price drops and its available on sale in the refurb store.

Sony needed the A7S3. Without it, The R5/R6 would have won against the A7R4/A7S2 pairing. Good on Sony's part for developing the A7S3. However, with the R5 out, what is the appeal of the more expensive A9II?


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## davidhfe (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> It would vary with ambient temperatures and airflow rate but we're talking minutes.
> 
> Internal combustion engines are big three dimensional pieces with internal heat build up. An exposed sensor is effectively a 2D piece with its flat surface exposed to air. The sensor is like a radiator in this respect and would respond very quickly to airflow.
> 
> ...



I've sort of lost the thread here but I'm not sure these assumptions hold. A CPU is the closest to what we're talking about here and a poorly cooled CPU doesn't behave like these cameras are behaving. ICs seem to come up to temperature very quickly under load, and that heat needs to be removed very quickly to prevent damage. These cameras are building up heat somewhere that's very hard to remove it from.

And CPUs very much do utilize radiators when you're talking about high TDP chips. You have a 2D surface and couple a spreader to it. The spreader makes sure that there's a nice even contact surface for your cooling solution to attach to. That spreader then needs to be attached to a sink of some kind; you can couple it directly, with a heat pipe, or with some pump that moves a cooling fluid around. Usually that sink is going to be a big radiator with a fan.

Apologies in advance if I've mis-represented your point.


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## davidhfe (Aug 3, 2020)

mppix said:


> The frame is likely less thermally conductive than what would be ideal so it traps heat. This is likely part of the problem (together with conducting heat away from the problem spots).



Yeah, it certainly _seems_ like the body is acting as a sink, but then the exterior rubberized grips etc are acting as too good of an insulator, making it very difficult to cool that sink down.


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## Quarkcharmed (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Armando Ferreira did a real 8k production with a real team and real actors. He could not shoot everything in 8k and ended up titling a follow up video "The Canon EOS R5 is NOT AN 8K CAMERA!" because of the thermal issues. He is a professional, not a mere "self-claimed influencer."
> 
> There is a thermal issue.



There's certainly an issue with click-baiting on YouTube. Professionals also need likes, views and subscribers and there's a lot of professionals who are at the same time the 'self-claimed influencers'. Especially when they lie right to our faces. There's flawed Canon's PR, too.

All this internet hype around the R5 overheating accelerated after the A7SIII announcement which brings some interesting questions about dark PR on the table. From all this buzz it may look like everyone's concerned about video only and is only going to buy the R5 for its video features. So, because the R5 cannot shoot 8K video for 1hr, those people will switch to Sony A7SIII. Which, in turn, doesn't shoot 8K at all and only has 12Mp sensor, but it's all cool and great just because.

But again, I think there's a high chance Canon will do some 'restructuring' in their PR/marketing department after this launch.


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## reefroamer (Aug 3, 2020)

navastronia said:


> Expecting? I didn't market it, Canon did.


To my knowledge, Canon has never promised or marketed unlimited 8k on the R5. Or 4K120, etc. Conversely, they have documented the limitations.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

adigoks said:


> here is a good news for you.
> RED release RED KOMODO with RF mount. it also have AF. and its priced around 5000-6000$.
> .
> if R5 become perfect as you imagine. RED KOMODO is just DOA.


I've followed the Komodo but I don't care to waste time on beta. I also doubt the AF is anywhere near Sony/Canon. Also, the RF support is not supported at launch so they're including EF adapters from Canon. I am excited that another camera provider has utilized the RF mount though! Its just too early on in the game.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

scyrene said:


> Did they? Or did you just read too much into pre-release hype?


Nope. Just entertained what Canon marketed on their website.


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 3, 2020)

Just give the R5 some time and we'll see it's not really too bad, not too bad!  However, this thread by comparison is really bad - a waste of time and I don't know why I persevered.

Jack


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

scyrene said:


> The way you worded your original comment made it sound like you bought RF lenses in the hope that the next R body would meet your needs precisely, my mistake I guess?


No, I get that. I just emphasized I invested in RF because I can only use it with the R system unlike EF where I could use it with other brands.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> There's certainly an issue with click-baiting on YouTube. Professionals also need likes, views and subscribers and there's a lot of professionals who are at the same time the 'self-claimed influencers'. Especially when they lie right to our faces. There's flawed Canon's PR, too.
> 
> All this internet hype around the R5 overheating accelerated after the A7SIII announcement which brings some interesting questions about dark PR on the table. From all this buzz it may look like everyone's concerned about video only and is only going to buy the R5 for its video features. So, because the R5 cannot shoot 8K video for 1hr, those people will switch to Sony A7SIII. Which, in turn, doesn't shoot 8K at all and only has 12Mp sensor, but it's all cool and great just because.
> 
> But again, I think there's a high chance Canon will do some 'restructuring' in their PR/marketing department after this launch.


Yes. Lots of dark PR that was definitely fueled further by the launch of the A7SIII, which shouldn't at all be compared to the R5. However, theres no shooting 8K past 20 minutes and thats if you're efficient with your shooting AND shoot no stills. Youtube is mainly going to focus on video & overheating for those clicks, for sure. I've only seen two videos focused on stills but my algorithm is all set for video. Now, I wonder what the rumor RF video camera is all about... I wonder if it'll be at all comparable? 

Also... Who was asking for 8K? I believe the majority of video shooters just wanted reliable 4K FF 10 Bit... lol


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## dtaylor (Aug 3, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> I've sort of lost the thread here but I'm not sure these assumptions hold. A CPU is the closest to what we're talking about here and a poorly cooled CPU doesn't behave like these cameras are behaving. ICs seem to come up to temperature very quickly under load, and that heat needs to be removed very quickly to prevent damage. These cameras are building up heat somewhere that's very hard to remove it from.



That depends entirely on the chip. Most people who have an impression of such things have it from personal computers with wildly varying loads and fan speeds, and chips that can do a lot more work and even 'turbo boost' compared to an embedded ARM chip.

That said, I do not discount the possibility the problem is downstream. My "Canon forgot the heatsink" comment was somewhat tongue-n-cheek, and later I listed three possibilities that occur to me (no heat sink/spreader/pipe; heatsink is there but poor materials/mating; that's all good but heat can't escape shell).

*Edit:* and the more I think about it, while a chip can 'slowly' reach it's thermal limits, I wouldn't expect it to take 2 hours to cool. So good chance the problem is downstream.



> And CPUs very much do utilize radiators when you're talking about high TDP chips.



I actually took the comment I was replying to as an analogy to cars.



> Apologies in advance if I've mis-represented your point.



No apologies necessary. We don't know where the problem is and absent a Lens Rentals teardown and/or IR imaging of a camera in action, we can only speculate. But based on the information we do have I think we can rule out sensor, card, or battery overheating.


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## dtaylor (Aug 3, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> There's certainly an issue with click-baiting on YouTube. Professionals also need likes, views and subscribers and there's a lot of professionals who are at the same time the 'self-claimed influencers'. Especially when they lie right to our faces. There's flawed Canon's PR, too.



Armando Ferreira is not a click-baiter and has never lied in a review that I've seen. He was quite generous to the EOS R when everyone was ripping on it for its 4k crop, and he was one of the people to point out the flexibility of the 480 Mbps output.



> From all this buzz it may look like everyone's concerned about video only and is only going to buy the R5 for its video features. So, because the R5 cannot shoot 8K video for 1hr, those people will switch to Sony A7SIII. Which, in turn, doesn't shoot 8K at all and only has 12Mp sensor, but it's all cool and great just because.



That's nothing but a straw man. Nobody expected a fan-less, continuous 8k camera. But when you can't expect to grab a HQ 4k clip at a wedding because you've been shooting stills, there's a problem. And it's a problem which will send some people to other brands.


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## Quarkcharmed (Aug 3, 2020)

reefroamer said:


> To my knowledge, Canon has never promised or marketed unlimited 8k on the R5. Or 4K120, etc. Conversely, they have documented the limitations.



They weren't promising an unlimited 8K but they didn't tell us about overheating until recently. The R5 was in fact advertised pre-launch as an 8K camera, and even now the official description says (from canon.com.au)



> *EOS R5*
> EOS R5 full frame mirrorless camera features a 45MP full-frame CMOS sensor, 8K 30p and 4K 120p videos, In-body IS up to 8-stops and can shoot up to a blistering 20fps.



So before the launch, people hoped for the best but didn't prepare for the worst. The 8K is still being advertised as a main innovation on top *but *there's a fine-print disclaimer now



> 1 Among all interchangeable lens digital cameras. Based on Canon research as of 9th July 2020. 1 Only when setting crop [Off], up to 29.97 fps / 25.00 fps. *The video recording time of the Canon EOS R5 is limited by heat. *



All Canon had to do was to put a similar disclaimer in the pre-launch advertisements. It wouldn't hurt the sales and preorders.

Personally I don't care *at all - *I'm looking forward to finally getting my preorder which is delayed till Oct.


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## reefroamer (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> It would vary with ambient temperatures and airflow rate but we're talking minutes.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I disagree. It’s a thermal LIMITATION of the design, which prioritized a small, weather-sealed body with a high Resolution, fast-readout sensor requiring a very high performance DIGIC processor. Meanwhile, where is the outrage over a 12MP sensor in the A7s3 that most stills shooters would consider a joke in the year 2020. Obviously, that was the compromise Sony made. I wouldn’t even consider that a hybrid camera. It’s primarily video. The R5 makes it obvious to me that Canon accepted the thermal limitations on video as the price paid to achieve other product objectives.


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## Quarkcharmed (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Armando Ferreira is not a click-baiter and has never lied in a review that I've seen.



He lies right in the title. " The Canon EOS R5 is NOT AN 8K CAMERA! " If it's not a click-bait and a lie, then what is? We know it *is* an 8K camera!



dtaylor said:


> That's nothing but a straw man. Nobody expected a fan-less, continuous 8k camera. But when you can't expect to grab a HQ 4k clip at a wedding because you've been shooting stills, there's a problem. And it's a problem which will send some people to other brands.



Are you personally shooting weddings and considering A7SIII instead of R5? I don't know about 'that guy'. I know about myself and my own requirements. I don't have the 8K video on my requirement list. It's nice to have, but even if I shoot it, I can't imagine shooting 8K for longer than a few minutes.

So personally I don't care at all, and I don't know why I should care about wedding photographers requirements. If they're happy with the R5 - fine. If they drop Canon and switch to A7RIII and shoot weddings at 12Mp - it's their problem.
If I ever shoot a wedding, I'll consider all requirements and choose the gear accordingly.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

s66 said:


> Dear canon: please remove the video modes from the camera in a future firmware update. Problem solved. And no more whining.
> It'll still be one of your very best stills camera you ever made.
> Have the video people using "youtubers" as their spiritual guidance buy a CXXX camera instead: that's clearly the specs they want. Take care, they're easily "influenced", often not even having had a camera you made in their hands, they get vocal about being misled by you, while it's their "influencers" that actually misled them in the first place.
> Tip: please make sure those "influencers" never get their paws on one of your products again.
> ...




Dear s66,
Will you also tell Canon to clean up their marketing tragedy by not touting camera specs that make the camera unusable after a few minutes? The "EOS R5 will again push the boundaries of what filmmakers can do compared to current DSLR and Mirrorless cameras..."

*Pulls out fan blower to cool down camera for additional 5 minutes of record time*

Thanks!


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> He lies right in the title. " The Canon EOS R5 is NOT AN 8K CAMERA! " If it's not a click-bait and a lie, then what is? We know it *is* an 8K camera!
> 
> 
> 
> ...


What came first? The chicken or the egg?


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## Quarkcharmed (Aug 3, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> What came first? The chicken or the egg?



What's the meaning of life? Is there a purpose?


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## Jethro (Aug 3, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Dear s66,
> Will you also tell Canon to clean up their marketing tragedy by not *touting camera specs that make the camera unusable after a few minutes*? The "EOS R5 will again push the boundaries of what filmmakers can do compared to current DSLR and Mirrorless cameras..."
> 
> *Pulls out fan blower to cool down camera for additional 5 minutes of record time*
> ...


Well he won't need to, because the camera remains eminently usable for stills and most video modes after it reaches the (clearly published) timing limits on some video modes. 

Look, from a marketing sense - should Canon have been clearer about those limitations (especially the recovery times)? Sure. But is it the flaming (pun intended) disaster people are claiming? Surely not.


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## Quarkcharmed (Aug 3, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Also... Who was asking for 8K? I believe the majority of video shooters just wanted reliable 4K FF 10 Bit... lol



Pure video shooters shouldn't be buying the R5 IMHO. Or they can set it up with external recording which is not heat-limited. Hybrid shooters - their requirements will be wildly different. Even with the heat limitations, the R5 is better that anything else on the market at the moment, in my opinion.

But again I'm neither a video nor a hybrid shooter and I can only speak for myself. I'm not buying the R5 for 8K or 4K60. I'm buying it for its stills.


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## WhatDoesMStandsFor (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Armando Ferreira did a real 8k production with a real team and real actors. He could not shoot everything in 8k and ended up titling a follow up video "The Canon EOS R5 is NOT AN 8K CAMERA!" because of the thermal issues. He is a professional, not a mere "self-claimed influencer."
> 
> There is a thermal issue.


Why did you hide the part where Armando also said that the EOS R5 is a killer 4K camera, which is something that a lot of hybrid shooters have been asking for Canon for years now?


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## Otara (Aug 3, 2020)

Jethro said:


> Well he won't need to, because the camera remains eminently usable for stills and most video modes after it reaches the (clearly published) timing limits on some video modes.
> 
> Look, from a marketing sense - should Canon have been clearer about those limitations (especially the recovery times)? Sure. But is it the flaming (pun intended) disaster people are claiming? Surely not.



I love doing clips and stills with it, and the main problem for me so far is storage rather than heat, with even a 128gb CFExpress card being a non-trivial price and I had to get it from overseas after waiting for it to become available as it was sold out.

I do feel bad for those who hoped this was going to be something that it isn't. Hopefully it will come about at some stage, either from the competition, a new model or some kind of cooling option. In my view the bigger issue is the recovery time, not the shooting limit.


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## snappy604 (Aug 3, 2020)

if I see camera I think stills is it's primary focus and video secondary.. you want primary video get a video camera. Having watched the reviews from this and other sources it seems to fit my bill quite well except for the price (though that is more me wishing for a better price). I'll work on saving for one of these when they get into stock... and an RF 24-70 2.8IS.. $igh... $10k CAD


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## Besisika (Aug 3, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> So why did they market it as an 8K full frame camera?


It has been a month since the camera was announced (almost) and you guys still whine about it.
I usually don't get into this kind of argument because I don't find it productive what so ever.

Looking at different media over the internet, I noticed that some people are screaming so that they can be heard. They simply wants attention because they are incapable of getting followers. They simply want more views. They create tension so that more people would comment. "R5 is unfit for purpose": who are you that you decide for the planet what is the purpose of R5?

Some people, are like a girl with daddy issue. Puts the blame on childhood because is incapable of producing something meaningful. Puts video out there but only 100 people are watching it. Let's bash Canon R5 so that we can get more followers.

Some people lack self esteem, bully others in order to feel important. Canon is this, Canon is that, and 12MP is perfect for me. 

Some people just want to let their frustration from being locked down on anything that comes their path. Grabs one weakness of the camera and blows it out of proportion in order to free up some of his frustration.

What is really the purpose of the complaints? If you want Canon to do something about it, simply send them a message.

The way I see it is very simple; finally Canon bit the crap out of someone, that they have to send their wolves all over the media to defend their stinky daddy. Someone told me once; the higher you go, the louder the critics.

If you don't like a product, buy something else, regardless of their marketing. You knew about it before it was in your hand, they were opened about it, yet you still cannot afford to go somewhere else. Please explain to me, why? Are you one of the aforementioned people?
If nothing is better than this, then why it is a bad camera? By definition, it is the best. Not perfect, but the best. If that is the case then say it.
If it is the only photographic that does 8K, then it is the only one that can do what you need. Not the way you want it, but the only one. It never existed before, and now you have one. Why then the cry out? would you feel better not having it at all?
People were capable of creating something fantastic before, you have now a better gear, and you act like all the past great tools were gone and you left with the crappiest camera. The only explanation to me is simply because you are one of these wolves. That is a crappy job.

Why am I defending it? because it is the only 45MP photo camera with EVF/OVF and shoots 4K full frame and crop.

I do agree, that Canon might listen to people's complain on the net. No proof of that though. Is that what motivates you?


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## jam05 (Aug 3, 2020)

Anyone find a way to backup or save settings to disk? Can't find one on the camera, manual, DPP, or the EOS utility. There are just too many variables not to have this function come over from the DSLRs


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

Besisika said:


> It has been a month since the camera was announced (almost) and you guys still whine about it.
> I usually don't get into this kind of argument because I don't find it productive what so ever.
> 
> Looking at different media over the internet, I noticed that some people are screaming so that they can be heard. They simply wants attention because they are incapable of getting followers. They simply want more views. They create tension so that more people would comment. "R5 is unfit for purpose": who are you that you decide for the planet what is the purpose of R5?
> ...


Wait, so why did they market it as an 8K no crop 4k120 camera?


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## unfocused (Aug 3, 2020)

jam05 said:


> Anyone find a way to backup or save settings to disk? Can't find one on the camera, manual, DPP, or the EOS utility. There are just too many variables not to have this function come over from the DSLRs


As far as I know, only the 1D series has the option to save settings to the card. Or is that not what you are referring to?


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## WhatDoesMStandsFor (Aug 3, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Also... Who was asking for 8K? I believe the majority of video shooters just wanted reliable 4K FF 10 Bit... lol


Pretty much, and Canon delivered on the R5 with this. Even in non HQ (which is not 4K "LQ", it's not low quality in anyway) the 4K looks really gorgeous for a hybrid camera.

I know a guy that was testing the EOS R5 and asked his thoughts on it. He said that the camera only overheated on him if he intended to. For his use, he managed to shoot some tests with 8K RAW only on the CFexpress and stills on the SD cards and did not get any overheat. When I've asked him more about this issue, he said that only happened when recording directly - the camera showed 15 minutes of recommended time, he managed to record almost 20 before the camera shutdown due to heat. He also said that the 4K directly from the camera is what he wanted for so long, but he won't be coming back to Canon for now because the H265 files are a mess in post-production.

So, in essence:

- It's a great hybrid camera for those who wants Canon colors for both video in 4K and stills with a high megapixel count
- It goes a bit beyond by offering 4K120, 4K HQ and also 8K in both compressed and RAW formats, even with limitations
- It's a pain in the ass for dealing with the H265 files


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## jam05 (Aug 3, 2020)

I would appreciate it if other EOS R/R5/R6 owners submit an email request to Canon support for a save settings to disk option. Its a pain in the you know what when sharing cameras or after service. Unless I overlooked something.


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## WhatDoesMStandsFor (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Armando Ferreira is not a click-baiter and has never lied in a review that I've seen. He was quite generous to the EOS R when everyone was ripping on it for its 4k crop, and he was one of the people to point out the flexibility of the 480 Mbps output.



Actually, he bashed the EOS R prior to using it (as a lot of youtubers actually did). He loved the camera so much after using that he switched. The EOS R is not, by any means, a bad camera. It was disappointing to some people, but a lot of people bashed the camera at the time of its launch without even using it.

Now the same thing is happening with the EOS R5. A lot of bash right now at its launch, but in 12 months a lot of people will be uploading their Youtube videos with "I've switched to the EOS R5"


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## unfocused (Aug 3, 2020)

You make a lot of decent points, but I feels like you are are missing some. 



Besisika said:


> It has been a month since the camera was announced (almost) and you guys still whine about it.
> I usually don't get into this kind of argument because I don't find it productive what so ever.



Agreed, it's time to quit arguing about this. The issues have been documented and no one is going to change anyone else's mind.



Besisika said:


> Looking at different media over the internet, I noticed that some people are screaming so that they can be heard. They simply wants attention because they are incapable of getting followers....



Absolutely true.



Besisika said:


> Some people, are like a girl with daddy issue...



Kind of sexist and a bit misogynistic. 



Besisika said:


> Some people lack self esteem, bully others in order to feel important....
> 
> ...Some people just want to let their frustration from being locked down on anything that comes their path....
> 
> ...What is really the purpose of the complaints? ...



All true.



Besisika said:


> The way I see it is very simple; finally Canon bit the crap out of someone, that they have to send their wolves all over the media to defend their stinky daddy.



I don't buy conspiracy theories. Whether they come from a president or on a camera forum, they tend to be kind of bat-crap crazy. The issues and the complaints are not some grand Sony conspiracy.



Besisika said:


> If you don't like a product, buy something else, regardless of their marketing. You knew about it before it was in your hand, they were opened about it, yet you still cannot afford to go somewhere else. Please explain to me, why? Are you one of the aforementioned people?



Generally, I agree, but not everyone knew about the issues before they ordered. In my view, though, that is the risk you take when you pluck down $4,000 on a camera sight unseen. I don't have much sympathy for early adopters.



Besisika said:


> If nothing is better than this, then why it is a bad camera?...If it is the only photographic that does 8K, then it is the only one that can do what you need...Why then the cry out? would you feel better not having it at all?...The only explanation to me is simply because you are one of these wolves...



To be fair, a camera should be able to do what it has been advertised to do, without all these caveats. I'm not a video person, but I can certainly understand the problem with the length of time to cool down. Even if you had two bodies and were switching off between them, the long time to cool down would be a problem.



Besisika said:


> ...I do agree, that Canon might listen to people's complain on the net. No proof of that though. Is that what motivates you?



It's probably a pretty ineffective way to complain. Canon probably monitors the overall commentary using some type of content analysis software, but I seriously doubt they are reading any individual complaints, unless the complaints are coming from big time customers or influencers.

My Take: Arguing back and forth and dreaming up screwy solutions is not going to change anything. Either Canon will fix it, will partially fix it or won't fix it at all. If someone wants the camera but also wants it fixed, they just need to sit tight and see what Canon does and if they consider that a proper fix. Chances are it will be months before they are readily available anyway, so people might as well just sit back and wait.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

s66 said:


> They didn't: it can record 8K. Which is a feat in itself.
> It's not unusable after a few minutes, it overheats (as specified by Canon) after 20+ minutes (and even those 20 min limits have specified). Even after that it works just great as a 4K camera.
> 
> 
> ...


No one asked for 8K though. 

Video shooters wanted solid and reliable 4k 10 bit ( no line skipping or pixel binning such as the 4K you speak of) up to 120FPS in a hybrid body. I believe many thought this would be that. Jamming an 8k sensor into a small camera body is not a feat! There is a reason no other camera has tried this... It just won't work in this small footprint unless a better design is implemented for cooling down the internals. 

This is a great stills camera and should've been marketed as such instead of leading with 8K no crop.


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## Mr Majestyk (Aug 3, 2020)

The trouble with the R5 you’re paying a large premium for those video features that aren’t reliable. I don’t mind the recording times as much as the glacial recovery from overheating annd even worse an hour of just stills shooting can render HQ video modes unusable as camera has already reached thermal limits. The body design is very poor in that it has woeful thermal conductivity properties and traps heat for up to 2 hours. They really do need to make a physical change rather than just rely on fw hacks. It’s a bit rich for people to now claim it’s not a video camera, when it was Canon that was pushing 8K as the headline act. Also the 4K line skipped video is poor quality and the H.265 codec I’ve heard is a nightmare to try and work with in editing. I’m sure fw will address some issues but the poor thermals are intrinsic to their body design and choice of materials. I really want to get the R5 but will dealy that purchase for at least 6 months and hope by Q1 next year soemthingnhas been done.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

unfocused said:


> You make a lot of decent points, but I feels like you are are missing some.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for answering this long message. I stopped trying at the misogynistic comment. I agree with your take. If you have a preorder then you seemingly have a good amount of time to cancel if needed once more info comes about... I am curious on how it behaves in my hands and we all can return in 30 days. I hope all that get this camera love it. 

And with this I bid a farewell to this thread.


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## Besisika (Aug 3, 2020)

unfocused said:


> To be fair, a camera should be able to do what it has been advertised to do, without all these caveats. I'm not a video person, but I can certainly understand the problem with the length of time to cool down. Even if you had two bodies and were switching off between them, the long time to cool down would be a problem.


Can anybody explain to me what was advertised? I need a proof not a wishful thinking. A video link or a line on the user's guide will be nice.

I will receive my R5 Tuesday, as per Canada Post, and I am already aware of its weaknesses, based on Canon rep interview on YouTube, as well as the user's guide. I knew about the weaknesses prior to paying for it. So what exactly was advertised? Was it advertised not to overheat? Was it advertised not to take a time to cool down?
I understand the issue. I shoot 4-hour concerts a dozen time a year, and I am worried about mine as well, but I took the decision to buy it given the weaknesses.
I had the choice not to buy it so why do I have the right to complain?
I really hope Canon will fix it, because I would like not to worry about overheating when shooting 4K HQ, but I am aware of it and to me that is fairness.
Wanting for a camera to do something I think will do, doesn't make it advertised. And I do hope people get that. We simply assumed it will be a perfect 8K mirrorless camera.
Here in Canada, a false representation is when someone says something opposite of what the product does. Canon had the weaknesses known to the public. That is not false representation.

What I am saying with my post is simple, it is what it is. Fair is when you criticize something and suggesting a solution. I find all these complaints not fair. If all the complaints has a specific positive purpose then I am all for it, but if it is just for the purpose of whining then I would say "grow up".
I am asking all of you whiners out there, to state the purpose of your complaints and do something about it.


----------



## unfocused (Aug 3, 2020)

Besisika said:


> Can anybody explain to me what was advertised? I need a proof not a wishful thinking. A video link or a line on the user's guide will be nice...



Canon's pre-release teasers placed heavy emphasis on the video capabilities of the camera. In fact, there were a lot of complaints on this forum from stills shooters because the pre-release marketing was so heavily weighted toward video.


----------



## PhotoGenerous (Aug 3, 2020)

Mr Majestyk said:


> The trouble with the R5 you’re paying a large premium for those video features that aren’t reliable. I don’t mind the recording times as much as the glacial recovery from overheating annd even worse an hour of just stills shooting can render HQ video modes unusable as camera has already reached thermal limits. The body design is very poor in that it has woeful thermal conductivity properties and traps heat for up to 2 hours. They really do need to make a physical change rather than just rely on fw hacks. It’s a bit rich for people to now claim it’s not a video camera, when it was Canon that was pushing 8K as the headline act. Also the 4K line skipped video is poor quality and the H.265 codec I’ve heard is a nightmare to try and work with in editing. I’m sure fw will address some issues but the poor thermals are intrinsic to their body design and choice of materials. I really want to get the R5 but will dealy that purchase for at least 6 months and hope by Q1 next year soemthingnhas been done.



Are we though? Considering the R5 is fairly close to the 5DIV launch price after inflation, seems like there isn't a premium because of video features. The camera was going to be about the same price regardless. Canon wasn't going to release a 5DIV positionally comparable camera at a cheaper price.

There is a premium, the early adopter premium, and not an 8k/video feature premium.


----------



## HarryFilm (Aug 3, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> Totally agree with the buying power stuff. Speak with your wallet for sure; forum posts are cheap. And again, Canon borked the PR here.
> 
> But, and this is an honest question, what competitor would you suggest people buy if they like the R5’s photo capabilities but are unhappy with the video?



The NEW Blackmagic Ursa 12k Camera is 79 megapixels still photo MONSTER having 60 fps BURST RATE and it is a SUPERB video camera with the right lenses! Just remember to shoot 12 bit RAW and buy some decent Cinema-style LUTs (Colour Lookup Tables) to turn those 60 fps burst rate 12k resolution video sequences into the BEST QUALITY 79 megapixel video frame grabs possible. It's 1/3rd to HALF the price of a Hasselblad or Phase One AND you also get a 12k resolution video camera to boot!









Wow! Blackmagic 12K camera makes stunning entrance (and the price is amazing too)


Move over 8K! The latest Blackmagic Ursa Mini Pro offers stunning 12K video for cinematographers and filmmakers




www.digitalcameraworld.com





AWESOME!


----------



## HarryFilm (Aug 3, 2020)

SteveC said:


> Entropy always increases, mass-energy is conserved, the speed of light in a vacuum is always 299,792,458 metres per second, and Canon is always *******.
> 
> You must not have taken a physics class.
> 
> All kidding aside, I agree with your point.



Actually....there is recent evidence now that the speed of light is and was NOT always constant! and that Mass/Energy IS NOT always conserved!

the "Laws" of Physics CAN BE BENT with the right application of advanced technology!

V


----------



## SteveC (Aug 3, 2020)

PhotoGenerous said:


> Are we though? Considering the R5 is fairly close to the 5DIV launch price after inflation, seems like there isn't a premium because of video features. The camera was going to be about the same price regardless. Canon wasn't going to release a 5DIV positionally comparable camera at a cheaper price.
> 
> There is a premium, the early adopter premium, and not an 8k/video feature premium.



I sure wish we could finally lay that silly "I don't want to pay for video features I don't use" to rest once and for all, but it's like kudzu.


----------



## bokehmon22 (Aug 3, 2020)

Canon R5 seems like a great photography camera, but not practical for professional videographers who might use hybrid camera for both video and photography for long period of time (wedding, interview, etc).

I do mostly photography so I don't care about 8K, but I wish I don't have to pay the premium for 8K video specs. 

Canon R6 is interesting but too low resolution since I do large print, it's missing top LCD, and lower resolution EVF. I'm keeping an eye out for Sony A7IV since the A7SIII come pretty close to being perfect camera for me except for the low resolution. 
This is definitely a great time to be a photographer with so many choices. It's hard to go wrong.


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## SteveC (Aug 3, 2020)

bokehmon22 said:


> I do mostly photography so I don't care about 8K, but I wish I don't have to pay the premium for 8K video specs.



Geez, not five minutes ago I complained about this, and here it is again.

45MP, 12 fps...do you suppose the ability to do that might be a consequence of developing that video feature you don't want to have to pay for?

Were it not for the 8K video feature, this wouldn't be nearly as awesome a camera for stills as it already is. Yeah, you're paying for that, with the SAME money you're paying for the phenomenal stills capability.


----------



## HarryFilm (Aug 3, 2020)

SteveC said:


> As usual, Harry...bulls**t.


*Speed of Light May Not Be Constant, Physicists Say*










Speed of Light May Not Be Constant, Physicists Say


The speed of light may not be constant, a possibility that could have broad implications for fields of cosmology and even astronomy, say physicists.




www.livescience.com





---


----------



## SteveC (Aug 3, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> *Speed of Light May Not Be Constant, Physicists Say*
> 
> 
> 
> ...



You realize they've been speculating about this for DECADES (if not centuries) and nothing has ever come of it? Can't guarantee it won't in the future, but it's blue-sky at this point and we can ignore it as a practical matter until shown otherwise.


----------



## HarryFilm (Aug 3, 2020)

SteveC said:


> You realize they've been speculating about this for DECADES (if not centuries) and nothing has ever come of it? Can't guarantee it won't in the future, but it's blue-sky at this point and we can ignore it as a practical matter until shown otherwise.



AND THEN:

*Energy Is Not Conserved*





__





Energy Is Not Conserved


Energy Is Not Conserved




www.discovermagazine.com





---


----------



## masterpix (Aug 3, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> No they won’t. Why would they they are being crucified for making the R5, this negative PR will have a very real impact on the cameras we get moving forwards, expect stills to take a huge back seat to video performance even though the vast majority of buyers, unlike testers and reviewers, don’t give a damn about the video specs.


There is a big question why a stills camera needs to be also a good video camera. I always claimed that should one want a good video camera, one needs to buy a camara specialized in video. I undestand that there are a lot of "hybrid" people who wants both, but giving them 8K is not a real "hybrid" it is more trying to do "both at the same time", but the electronics of the two might not, as we see in the heat sink, meet very well (even sony with the new 7, "addmits" that making a video camera, is a huge compremizing over the stills). I, if buy the R5, will buy it for the 45MP sensor, the AF system, low light capabilities etc. but for stills only, I have little interest in video for this matter (and even I do videos, this won't be a video camera for the choice. there are enough dedicated 8K video cameras over there). Should they will make a 5D-5 with similar stills capabilities it would be even better for I like to SEE what is infront of me and not what the camera alrady processed from it. 

All in all, I think that people critisizm comes from "what we want it to be" more than "what it really is". Take the 6D critics for example, it was "crusified" not to be the 5D when it was not meant to be.


----------



## HarryFilm (Aug 3, 2020)

SteveC said:


> You realize they've been speculating about this for DECADES (if not centuries) and nothing has ever come of it? Can't guarantee it won't in the future, but it's blue-sky at this point and we can ignore it as a practical matter until shown otherwise.



Some of the more RECENT experiments SEEM to show that INDEED that the speed of light is NOT and WAS NOT constant.





__





Philip Perry







bigthink.com





Even though this above article is from 2018, there more in the more recent issues of "Physics Today" that indicates that this has NOW been proven in actuality.

Of course, on a practical basis, YOU and I won't know the difference BUT it does lead open to actually useful technologies within communications, finite-scale measurement systems, computer operations, permanent memory storage where even SMALL effects/changes in the current speed of light is VERY USEFUL thing to have!

V


----------



## Cat_Interceptor (Aug 3, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> AND THEN:
> 
> *Energy Is Not Conserved*
> 
> ...




"There are two things that are infinite - the Universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the first"


----------



## Kit. (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> It would vary with ambient temperatures and airflow rate but we're talking minutes.


How many minutes?



dtaylor said:


> An exposed sensor is effectively a 2D piece with its flat surface exposed to air. The sensor is like a radiator in this respect and would respond very quickly to airflow.


It's not, because it's flat.



dtaylor said:


> That's not a source of heat.


That's a heat accumulator, with limited capacity.



dtaylor said:


> That would be a thermal design issue in a device like this, wouldn't it?


Not for a camera designed to take photos, handheld, in a wide range of environments.

Would you want to need to wear gloves to operate it in +15 degrees Celsius?


----------



## degos (Aug 3, 2020)

PhotoGenerous said:


> Are we though? Considering the R5 is fairly close to the 5DIV launch price after inflation, seems like there isn't a premium because of video features. The camera was going to be about the same price regardless. Canon wasn't going to release a 5DIV positionally comparable camera at a cheaper price.



That's part of the frustration of how Canon operates. Instead of working from requirements inwards, they decide what tier they're targeting and select à la carte features which can be accommodated at that price point.

I mean did any 5D4 pros really state, when surveyed, that 8K video clips were a requirement for its successor?


----------



## Baron_Karza (Aug 3, 2020)

"Use an external fan to dissipate heat" 

CANON themselves say to do this. But it seems that makes NO difference. Not even cold packs or placing it in a fridge helps.
I don't trust Canon anymore.


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## Viggo (Aug 3, 2020)

It’s kind of hard finding still feature reviews of the R5. Seems like it goes like this; “great for stills the end, but here listen to me for 20 minutes talking about how it’s not the cinema camera canon didn’t made it to be.”


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## Baron_Karza (Aug 3, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> If people are being idiotic them calling them idiots is factually correct. The out of all context uproar this release has caused is idiotic, and while you might say "no one was expecting that" the limitations those specs alone place on that aspect of the camera are the ONLY criticisms of the camera. Everybody has praised the AF, the DR, the resolution, rolling shutter, image quality, iso performance etc etc etc, the only aspect people are ripping the entire package to pieces on is the 8k and other special video modes.



It's only your opinion, not a fact.
Fact is when someone is calling them names, it shows signs of being immature and easily angered. 

Canon saying to use an external fan to reduce the internal heat on the R5 camera is deceptive and wrong and HUGE disservice to their customers. 

You trying to silence people into not complaining about these issue is not going to get Canon back to being a trustworthy company that used to build only features that were reliable and predictable.

Putting 8K in a $4 camera designed to be a stills 1st camera is gimmick. 
Putting 8K in a $4k video 1st camera would have been the correct thing to do.


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 3, 2020)

A few comments

The Atomos Ninja V can support 4k 120 at 4:2:2 with one Sony camera. Based on Wikipedia HDMI standards this would indicate it has HDMI 2.1. If it has 2.1 then it will support 8K modes (pending firmware and other possible limitations).


I can't see what HDMI the R5 uses. If it is 2.0 to 2.0b then it could do 4K120/8K at 4:2:0. I can't comment if that is sufficient for people or not (vs 4:2:2). Whether Atomos plan with Canon to support these higher modes (120fps, 8k), don't know.


Armando Ferreira also stated that many studios would use multiple cameras on a shoot, and for each take it would only be required for minutes. In this other use case he said it failed. Fair enough. Not sure that equates then to the headline. A single body, in a specific use case doesnt work for him. Enough such scenarios and he might conclude a single R5 doesnt work for him. He's also said (earlier video) he would shoot 8k for occasional shoots (like from drone).


The overheating on the R5 and R6 both seem to occur when the source bitrate (before compresssion) is around 12.6Gbps. I've used that based on the output rate which HDMI uses. I accept that it is an approximation and internally (pre compression) the R5/R6 may not be pulling quite that much data. Half the frame rate and the amount of data (approx) halves also. Hence the 30p and below are ok.


Over HDMI, the 4K60 doesnt overheat, but the 4k60 crop does. The crop mode samples from 5.1k or 4.8k, presume the 4k60 All-I doesnt. Assuming (big IF), that the 4K60 external needs little manipulation (HDMI is uncompressed), then does this not eliminate the issue on the sensor / IBIS etc. Sure they contribute heat, but they don't push it over the limit.


Whether it is sampling and sending over HDMI (uncompressed), or storing internally (compressed) this is where the additional work generates more heat and over a period of time, leads to the shutdown. I do not know for sure if that sampling is done in HW (assume it would be based on the rates), and the H265 encoding needs hw encoding support (they're not doing it in sw - I based that on PC encoding in SW). How much writing to the CFExpress / UHS II at higher bit rates raises the temperature I don't know. Whether you can use H264 but match the quality (perhaps at the expense of some storage), again not sure - but one would assume they looked at the H264/265 and concluded the H265 gave them the best results. Again, how much you can tweak the H265 encoding to require less Digic but maintain the quality will be one area Canon might look at.


Any stills manipulation on Raw / cRAW would presume to also be using Digic (noise reduction, cRAW compression, and hence why it also contributes to raising the internal temperature.
Ultimately, every design has some trade-off and individuals need to decide whether it works for them or not. Pick through all the noise, try and find the info that is relevant for you: chose to buy, chose to wait, chose to change brand, chose to rent and try, chose to buy but return. Your money, your choice. You can discuss it here if you want opinion, or you can conclude without discussion and go with that. As others have mentioned, be aware at what motivates whoever is supplying the information (that goes for all "news" on a global basis)... All that glitters is not gold as I remember from my school days, lol.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 3, 2020)

PhotoGenerous said:


> Are we though? Considering the R5 is fairly close to the 5DIV launch price after inflation, seems like there isn't a premium because of video features. The camera was going to be about the same price regardless. Canon wasn't going to release a 5DIV positionally comparable camera at a cheaper price.
> 
> There is a premium, the early adopter premium, and not an 8k/video feature premium.


The original 5D in 2005 had no video or live view and was priced at $3200 USD which is about $4224 USD in 2020 dollars. I can't complain about the price of the R5 because its less expensive than the original 5D. I don't think I'm paying more for video because cost to manufacture is largely based on volume, and video sells more cameras.


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 3, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> It's only your opinion, not a fact.
> Fact is when someone is calling them names, it shows signs of being immature and easily angered.
> 
> Canon saying to use an external fan to reduce the internal heat on the R5 camera is deceptive and wrong and HUGE disservice to their customers.
> ...


Well to be fair the only fact in your post is "Canon saying to use an external fan to reduce the internal heat on the R5 camera". The rest of your post is your opinion. Which carries the same validity as everyone elses.

It's a forum, some people like to discuss, some like to argue, some like to just watch, some like to laugh. There are very few facts - you need to read a lot of posts to find them. In my post above, there is a lot of conjecture there. A couple of facts. Take it as you please....


----------



## drama (Aug 3, 2020)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> The original 5D in 2005 had no video or live view and was priced at $3200 USD which is about $4224 USD in 2020 dollars. I can't complain about the price of the R5 because its less expensive than the original 5D. I don't think I'm paying more for video because cost to manufacture is largely based on volume, and video sells more cameras.


I said this same thing about price when it was announced and was shouted down. Pricing on this is in line with every 5 D.

it is at least gratifying to see more and more sensible takes now the shrieking has died down around price, expectations and all the rest. This happens with every big camera launch, it just felt a lot more aggressive this time around. Ultimately, the market will decide if it’s a hit or not. Certainly talk of pre orders not arriving until September suggests a decent amount of people don’t care what youtubers think.


----------



## PhotoGenerous (Aug 3, 2020)

degos said:


> That's part of the frustration of how Canon operates. Instead of working from requirements inwards, they decide what tier they're targeting and select à la carte features which can be accommodated at that price point.
> 
> I mean did any 5D4 pros really state, when surveyed, that 8K video clips were a requirement for its successor?



Can you tell me any tech company that operates the way that you're saying? Apple or Samsung isn't going to drop the price in next year's model if features or components end up being cheaper than before. They might release a different product at a cheaper price point, but not change the price of their flagship phones. But Canon does the same. They have different price tiers of products.

And it's not like Canon is adding totally unrelated features to photography, like a bottle cap opener and tweezers. Sensors and processors are needed for both, they're very closely related. Like someone else mentioned, the 45 megapixels and 20 FPS we're getting is related to 8k. Eye-auto focus has got to at least partially be because of a video initiative if not primarily because of video that they could also implement for stills.

As for your last question, while I don't really do much video, I do remember how reviewers and pros are always complaining about the Canon's "cripple hammer" for not implementing enough features. And I remember how people complained about Canon not using the full sensor and instead forcing cropped 4K video. They didn't do that this time. So you could say that yes, pros were basically asking for it in its successor.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 3, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Wait, so why did they market it as an 8K no crop 4k120 camera?


Jim JIm you are becoming very boring or worse.

Jack


----------



## Antono Refa (Aug 3, 2020)

Sharlin said:


> I wonder how much one could reduce the cooldown time by using something like a small Peltier-cooled travel fridge or similar device. Also, how much effect removing the lens has. How about a Peltier cooler that you can mount on the camera in place of a lens?!



Wouldn't that cause water vapor to condense inside the camera?


----------



## Antono Refa (Aug 3, 2020)

Mark3794 said:


> Admin do you think that they are happy with the overheating to protect a new RF cinema camera that is gonna be announced soon?



I think they're happy to test the 8K sensor in a cheaper camera prior to using it in a pro camera. I don't expect a 5D or an R5 to be a pro cinema camera, treat the video features as a useful bonus, and am happy with it.


----------



## Besisika (Aug 3, 2020)

unfocused said:


> Canon's pre-release teasers placed heavy emphasis on the video capabilities of the camera. In fact, there were a lot of complaints on this forum from stills shooters because the pre-release marketing was so heavily weighted toward video.


Understood and respected, still doesn't prove that they lied or misinformed people. They simply accentuated what they thought as the best strategy to make more sales.
The only fact so far is that we assumed the 8K to be perfect and we didn't "read the fine print". There is a saying in not to assume.
As for the complaints, I share the opinion. This is the most capable still camera on paper, but I guess they wanted not to cloud the 1DX III too much. I bought mine primarily for the 45MP and internal (adapter) ND filter, secondary for the 4K HQ and size for gimbal work.


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 3, 2020)

Juangrande said:


> I keep hearing people talking about cooling the camera in a fridge. Wouldn’t that rapid change cause condensation inside the camera? Especially with the lens off.


who cares about taking photos with cameras in this day and age? yeah. it will fog up.. like a a cold bottle of beer pulled out of your Esky.. isn't that cool?


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Aug 3, 2020)

*Meanwhile... *Photonstophotos released the dynamic range chart for the R5...





__





Photographic Dynamic Range versus ISO Setting






www.photonstophotos.net





... and it beats A7RIV. 

This is absolutely unexpected surprise from Canon, looking forward to getting this beast. Seriously, this is something to talk about, not the boring overheating issue.


----------



## Chris.Chapterten (Aug 3, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> *Meanwhile... *Photonstophotos released the dynamic range chart for the R5...
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I got really excited about this too! It's not quite an apples to apples comparison though.. the R5 is applying some noise reduction to the RAW files at low ISO. Still a step forward from the 5d IV and R though


----------



## Antono Refa (Aug 3, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> So why did they market it as an 8K full frame camera?



I, for one, don't even care. I want it for IBIS, the ability to mount 15-35mm f/2.8 w/ IS & 24-70mm f/2.8 w/ IS, the extra resolution, etc.

My computer screen is 2K. I had a 14 inch TV once, gifted it to a neighbor over 15 years ago, and haven't looked back. Ever since reality shows became a thing, TV became a cultural wasteland filled with inappropriate metaphors and an unrealistic portrayal of life created by the liberal media elite.


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 3, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> There gets to a point where advertising can become insulting to the consumer, gullible or not. Canon withholding the time limitations until after Pre-order day and not even being on their website is dishonest. That’s my opinion. I’m glad Peter was able to say something in his review for it.
> 
> Let me sell you a sports car.
> 
> ...


your example is not quite correct. if the car was advertised with NO engine, then you received exactly what has been advertised.
Canon was upfront about limitations around some recording times and also limited availability of 12FPS mechanical shutter mode...
so.. all the features that Canon claimed for the day one are all present in the final product. there are limitation and they are very finely defined.


show me a single feature of R5 or |R6 that has been advertised and is not available in the final product. 
Let me help you though: there is no such a feature..


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 3, 2020)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> I got really excited about this too! It's not quite an apples to apples comparison though.. the R5 is applying some noise reduction to the RAW files at low ISO. Still a step forward from the 5d IV and R though


yeah. it s a cooked RAW above ISO 400. we are not looking at the genuine numbers here.. the data has been already tampered with OOC.. lipstick on a pig?


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 3, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Bro.. Google canon r5 announcement. It’s literally what Canon led with! Lol. “8K No Crop.”
> 
> Come on now.


are we looking at the same camera? it sounds though that your are talking about a completely different R5.


----------



## Chris.Chapterten (Aug 3, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> yeah. it s a cooked RAW above ISO 400. we are not looking at the genuine numbers here.. the data has been already tampered with OOC.. lipstick on a pig?


I thought it was cooked below ISO 400?


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Aug 3, 2020)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> I got really excited about this too! It's not quite an apples to apples comparison though.. the R5 is applying some noise reduction to the RAW files at low ISO. Still a step forward from the 5d IV and R though


I noticed the triangles and noise reduction too, but couldn't find what that means exactly in practice. Is it really applied in camera? Or the files used in measurements has the noise reduction applied (for any reason)?


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 3, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Criticism is a good thing, Bert. Remember that.


most of your criticism does not make any sense. it is a noise.. and noise is annoying as heck.. here you have it.


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 3, 2020)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> I thought it was cooked below ISO 400?



here is the chart.. so.. read noise is growing up to ISO 320 .. and then suddenly and abruptly drops down to the level of ISO 125 approx. why did the noise level dropped? they cocked the RAW at iso 400 and above.. I may be incorrect and happy to be corrected.





__





Read Noise in DNs versus ISO Setting






www.photonstophotos.net


----------



## Ale_F (Aug 3, 2020)

I have one simple question: why video is so important in primary - photo camera like R5?
Why video makers do not use Cx00 camcorders?


----------



## koenkooi (Aug 3, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> here is the chart.. so.. reaad noise is growing up to ISO 320 .. and then suddenly and abruptly drops down to the level of ISO 125 approx. why did the noise level dropped? they cocked the RAW at iso 400 an above.. I may be incorrect and happy to be corrected.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



According to Bill Claff on the DPreview forums all ISOs before 640 have noise reduction applied and at ISO 400 a new gain kicks in.

Have a look at https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4509197 and https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4509191


----------



## Chris.Chapterten (Aug 3, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> I noticed the triangles and noise reduction too, but couldn't find what that means exactly in practice. Is it really applied in camera? Or the files used in measurements has the noise reduction applied (for any reason)?


My understanding is that it is applied in camera and can't be deactivated..

From some of the sample photos posted to this forum though, the sharpness and detail in heavily raised shadows still looks better than the 5Div and R


----------



## padam (Aug 3, 2020)

Mr Majestyk said:


> The trouble with the R5 you’re paying a large premium for those video features that aren’t reliable. I don’t mind the recording times as much as the glacial recovery from overheating annd even worse an hour of just stills shooting can render HQ video modes unusable as camera has already reached thermal limits. The body design is very poor in that it has woeful thermal conductivity properties and traps heat for up to 2 hours. They really do need to make a physical change rather than just rely on fw hacks. It’s a bit rich for people to now claim it’s not a video camera, when it was Canon that was pushing 8K as the headline act. Also the 4K line skipped video is poor quality and the H.265 codec I’ve heard is a nightmare to try and work with in editing. I’m sure fw will address some issues but the poor thermals are intrinsic to their body design and choice of materials. I really want to get the R5 but will dealy that purchase for at least 6 months and hope by Q1 next year soemthingnhas been done.


I disagree with most things.
This 8K sensor seems superb, it has a very fast readout for 45MP, which translates into usable 20fps silent shooting and better AF performance as well. As good as the 1DX III / R6 sensor is, this seems like a further step up, apart from doing a stacked sensor, this is as good as it is going to get in the current generation.

They have been open about developing this 8K camera since early 2019 and they have started even earlier, so it is safe to say they knew what they were doing and they made design decisions that they had to make. They would not put a product out on the market that they wouldn't feel confident about in practise. Can they tweak a little bit in software? Probably.

H.265 10-bit 4:2:2 at this point is not hardware accelerated on most devices (H.265 10-bit 4:2:0 is, which is used in other cameras), currently only supported by Apple processors like the new iPad Pro, and it works quite well on that. So it seems that's really what it needs.

Is that Canon's fault? I don't think so.
Will we see better hardware support? Apple is planning to make a big switch to their own processors soon, after that it will be definitely supported on those.
But I can't imagine others not jumping on this train and also staring to support this codec, since it can be recorded internally with a good quality/file size ratio and they can sell new products with that.
They are just thinking ahead, other camera will probably start using similar internal codecs going into next year.

It is priced just like a 5D Mark V mirrorless equivalent would be, yes there are thermal issues but there is no extra price upon that as such, only the 'normal' price increase.

All this press will have very little effect on sales. Whether people buying it for stills or video or both, they know what they are buying into.
The global situation is more relevant, but they can't control that.


----------



## Antono Refa (Aug 3, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> I mean publicizing the specs alone and leading with that on every ad is pretty misleading.
> 
> From Canon’s page: “Canon revolutionized the video industry with the introduction of the EOS 5D Mark II which provided solutions for what was previously seen as improbable - the EOS R5 will again push the boundaries of what filmmakers can do compared to current DSLR and Mirrorless cameras. With Internal, uncropped 8K video shooting at up to 29.97fps, and 4K video shooting at up to 119.9fps, in 4:2:2 10-bit (H.265) Canon Log, and Dual Pixel CMOS AF available in all 8K and 4K modes, image makers worldwide will be able to tell their stories in larger-than-life resolutions. Additional new features include: Internally recorded and uncropped 8K RAW Recording up to 29.97 fps with Dual Pixel CMOS AF, and HDR-PQ Recording (H.265) capability.”
> 
> You’ll be hard pressed to find anything about limitations due to heat on their website.



There's a reason technical writing and advertising are two different things. The former is about full & accurate description, the later is about creating a halo. Canon made the information available ahead of time, down to making the user manual available on line. The smart thing for a customer to do is read beyond the ads prior to forking $3K+


----------



## rbielefeld (Aug 3, 2020)

padam said:


> I disagree with most things.
> This 8K sensor seems superb, it has a very fast readout for 45MP, which translates into usable 20fps silent shooting and better AF performance as well. As good as the 1DX III / R6 sensor is, this seems like a further step up, apart from doing a stacked sensor, this is as good as it is going to get in the current generation.
> 
> They have been open about developing this 8K camera since early 2019 and they have started even earlier, so it is safe to say they knew what they were doing and they made design decisions that they had to make. They would not put a product out on the market that they wouldn't feel confident about in practise. Can they tweak a little bit in software? Probably.
> ...


From my limited experience shooting the R5 (two days), I believe still photographers that choose to forego the R5 may be missing out on an excellent tool. More testing to come, but right now the AF and overall performance of the R5 is stellar for me. Video-wise, I have shot short clips, as that is how I generally use video, and I love the performance and video quality. I don't shoot long footage, just 1-5 minute clips, so I think the R5 is going to be a great tool for me.


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 3, 2020)

Another observation...

If the majority (see below) of people are not using a 4K screen to watch content (other than Streaming Media, UHD Media, some games, weddings), and very few (if any) mobiles have 4k screens (though this could be because streaming 4K over 4G), then why is there such demand for 4K capable recording devices unless you are providing content for those watching 4K TVs (and I would love to know how many 4K TV users watch YT and the like)....

When 4K does become more pervasive in Desktops, Mobiles and everyday Internet then will the content produced today be still relevant?

I'm just curious as to what is driving this desire to have 4K60p (I genuinely don't know). I get the flexibility of more resolution for cropping - just like I do in stills. I get that you can downsample to produce better output. I get the quality that 4K and higher frame rates may provide you, but if your target audience can't view it then isn't it cheaper to just produce HD? And pay someone in x years time to produce 4K content when people are actually watching it?

Presumably (paying) customers are asking for 4K content - just trying to figure out if that is FOMO or some of the editing benefits or something else.

Source on "Majority" - just google "most commonly used screen resolution 2020" to get a bunch of sites which seem to indicate very few are using anything higher than HD and many not that high. And then I did the same for Iphone and Samsung screen resolutions.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Aug 3, 2020)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> My understanding is that it is applied in camera and can't be deactivated..
> 
> From some of the sample photos posted to this forum though, the sharpness and detail in heavily raised shadows still looks better than the 5Div and R



That's strange because any noise reduction means loss of sharpness but the R5 is quite sharp at low ISOs. Also any NR implies additional performance hit when writing raw files.


----------



## tron (Aug 3, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> According to Bill Claff on the DPreview forums all ISOs before 640 have noise reduction applied and at ISO 400 a new gain kicks in.
> 
> Have a look at https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4509197 and https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4509191











Canon EOS R5 Dynamic Range. Canon's first dual gain sensor


Bill from PhotonsToPhotos has completed his testing of the EOS R5 and it has some surprising results. This is Canon's first true dual gain sensor - which means that when the second gain kicks in you get a DR "bump". It also means to maximize the DR of this camera from a purist standpoint you...



www.canonnews.com


----------



## Chris.Chapterten (Aug 3, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> That's strange because any noise reduction means loss of sharpness but the R5 is quite sharp at low ISOs. Also any NR implies additional performance hit when writing raw files.


Yeah it's strange to me too. Perhaps the noise reduction is only being applied to shadow areas? Whatever Canon is doing doesn't seem to be affecting the overall detail or sharpness


----------



## BakaBokeh (Aug 3, 2020)

Ale_F said:


> I have one simple question: why video is so important in primary - photo camera like R5?
> Why video makers do not use Cx00 camcorders?


The form factor is super attractive. To be able to have cinema quality video in a sleeper size photo camera body is the dream for videographers. As one small case, when I travel, I don't really wanna walk around with a cinema camera like a C300 if I can get similar results in a smaller mirrorless body.

The thing is, we've already achieved that type of image quality to an extent since the 5DmkII. Now, everything is about improving workflow, or stretching for that improved dynamic range or low light performance, or run time. The R5 ticks so many boxes except one thing. And to me it's not even the overheating... overheating is expected from an 8k or oversampled 4k camera... it's the weird diminishing usability when recovering from overheating.

I know there's this idea that they are protecting their cinema line. Okay that is understandable from a corporation's perspective. But at some point there is going to be an overwhelming market for providing these professional features in a consumer form factor. I look at the music industry as an example. There was a time when if you wanted pro results, you had to book studio time in a multi million dollar studio. Studios would have 6 figure consoles, expensive outboard gear like preamps, EQ, compressors and stupid expensive microphones. As well as expensive studio instruments. Now a lot of stuff you hear that is 'professionally' made is made in a home studio, with decent affordable equipment and plug-ins that mimic all that expensive outboard gear and virtual instruments. There will be camera companies that eventually offer these high end features to the consumers, and if creators can get the same results using smaller cameras as the more expensive and larger cinema gear, there will be a paradigm shift in how video is produced.

I know long answer for simple question. But simply put, it's the same path that all other technologies follow. Just like super computers which once filled entire rooms can now fit in tiny form factors. Video cameras are just the next form of technology that is on that precipice of becoming smaller and lighter.


----------



## blackcoffee17 (Aug 3, 2020)

Ale_F said:


> I have one simple question: why video is so important in primary - photo camera like R5?
> Why video makers do not use Cx00 camcorders?



From my perspective only:

1. I like to have one camera for stills and video. Can use the same lenses, it's more convenient to carry around only 1 camera and it's a lot cheaper than buying a separate device for video only.
2. Cx00 cameras are very expensive.


----------



## Kit. (Aug 3, 2020)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> the R5 is applying some noise reduction to the RAW files at low ISO.


Can it be that subtle dual-pixel related artifacts are getting detected as "noise reduction"?


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 3, 2020)

Kit. said:


> Can it be that subtle dual-pixel related artifacts are getting detected as "noise reduction"?


I read it a bit differently.:




__





Read Noise in DNs versus ISO Setting






www.photonstophotos.net





A secondary gain amplifier kicks in at around ISO400 and brings read noise levels Down quite a bit. A separate amplifier for intermediate ISO


----------



## Chris.Chapterten (Aug 3, 2020)

Kit. said:


> Can it be that subtle dual-pixel related artifacts are getting detected as "noise reduction"?


I'm not sure if that's very likely. I don't believe the 5div or EOS R had the noise reduction showing up in tests and they are dual pixel too. Would be interesting to know how the noise reduction was identified


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Aug 3, 2020)

Kit. said:


> Can it be that subtle dual-pixel related artifacts are getting detected as "noise reduction"?



I was thinking, maybe it's the noise subtraction. Where they subtract the noise from a completely blacked out sensor.



Chris.Chapterten said:


> Perhaps the noise reduction is only being applied to shadow areas?



That may create artifacts on the edges. Very strange thing to do on raw files.

I think Sony was applying NR to long exposures (star eater), but that's an extreme case, not normal shooting at base ISO.


----------



## BeenThere (Aug 3, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> Another observation...
> 
> If the majority (see below) of people are not using a 4K screen to watch content (other than Streaming Media, UHD Media, some games, weddings), and very few (if any) mobiles have 4k screens (though this could be because streaming 4K over 4G), then why is there such demand for 4K capable recording devices unless you are providing content for those watching 4K TVs (and I would love to know how many 4K TV users watch YT and the like)....
> 
> ...


The mainstream home TV for sale in the WalMarts are 4K. 8K is now the premium TV. There is a lot of 4K content available on streaming channels and almost all new production movies and such is 4K.


----------



## WhatDoesMStandsFor (Aug 3, 2020)

blackcoffee17 said:


> From my perspective only:
> 
> 1. I like to have one camera for stills and video. Can use the same lenses, it's more convenient to carry around only 1 camera and it's a lot cheaper than buying a separate device for video only.
> 2. Cx00 cameras are very expensive.


The first point I do understand. Having a single body for hybrid purposes is a must among every content creator or professional right now. And, according to my research, you can:

- Use the R5 in regular 4K (which already looks great, even if it's pixel binned because most clients won't even know what does that mean) while shooting photos
- If needed, record some small bits in 4KHQ, 4K120 or 8K

I do agree with everyone saying that "we don't asked for the 8K", but I've asked for 4K without crop and this camera is delivering it.

As for your second point, well... You can get a C200B for $3,999 (which is the price point of the R5) or a C200 for $ 5,499 (the price point of the 1Dx Mk III). I've also saw used C300 MkII on the market for about $ 3,500 as well. If you are willing to spend almost $ 4k on a camera and you primarily shoot video, the R5 will only fit your needs if you are ok with the compromises made by it being a stills camera that shoots video. If it does not fit your needs, you can grab a C200B and have a really reliable workhorse for videos (I've sold mine to get a C300 Mk III).


----------



## WhatDoesMStandsFor (Aug 3, 2020)

BeenThere said:


> The mainstream home TV for sale in the WalMarts are 4K. 8K is now the premium TV. There is a lot of 4K content available on streaming channels and almost all new production movies and such is 4K.


That's not a universal truth. You have markets such USA and Japan that are pushing the boundaries, but I've went to Portugal last year and they are still selling 1080p displays in abundance.


----------



## Thcwub (Aug 3, 2020)

I kind of feel like people need to stop trying to save face on behalf of the camera for stills photographers on the back of its stills performance. It is a hybrid camera and all that video technology is absolutely coming at a premium. For mine, this product is a failure that perpetuates this issue with hybrid systems. You dont get to defend this as a stills product when so much of the purchase price is hiked up for experimental video tech that is, as discussed here, unusable for production purposes.

You cant tell me that a R5esque camera with all video functionality omitted would draw the same premium price. Id absolutely buy one in a heartbeat, but I wont be paying 7 grand dollars for a stills camera. Is there honestly not a strong enough market prospect for stills-only cameras?


----------



## scyrene (Aug 3, 2020)

blackcoffee17 said:


> From my perspective only:
> 
> 1. I like to have one camera for stills and video. Can use the same lenses, it's more convenient to carry around only 1 camera and it's a lot cheaper than buying a separate device for video only.
> 2. Cx00 cameras are very expensive.



Absolutely valid points *but* don't you think the cinema cameras are expensive largely because they offer those 'pro' video features? Asking for the cheaper stills/hybrid bodies to do what they do is wanting to have your cake and eat it?


----------



## scyrene (Aug 3, 2020)

BeenThere said:


> The mainstream home TV for sale in the WalMarts are 4K. 8K is now the premium TV. There is a lot of 4K content available on streaming channels and almost all new production movies and such is 4K.



Really? Where is that? I've never seen an 8K display for sale here in the UK. Mainstream tv is still HD, and I find streaming anything much above HD prohibitively slow/file sizes are too large (but I expect it's easier in major cities now).


----------



## WhatDoesMStandsFor (Aug 3, 2020)

Thcwub said:


> Is there honestly not a strong enough market prospect for stills-only cameras?


Well, Nikon tried that a few years ago with the Df and it tanked big time with a lot of people saying that it needed video features. So...


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

Antono Refa said:


> There's a reason technical writing and advertising are two different things. The former is about full & accurate description, the later is about creating a halo. Canon made the information available ahead of time, down to making the user manual available on line. The smart thing for a customer to do is read beyond the ads prior to forking $3K+


All true. No overheating info in the user manual but it was updated under specifications under Video Shooting a few days after Pre-order launch. Luckily there’s a back order and lots of Pre-orders haven’t been charged giving customers time to explore. Then another 30 days once the camera is in hand


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 3, 2020)

Thcwub said:


> I kind of feel like people need to stop trying to save face on behalf of the camera for stills photographers on the back of its stills performance. It is a hybrid camera and all that video technology is absolutely coming at a premium. For mine, this product is a failure that perpetuates this issue with hybrid systems. You dont get to defend this as a stills product when so much of the purchase price is hiked up for experimental video tech that is, as discussed here, unusable for production purposes.
> 
> You cant tell me that a R5esque camera with all video functionality omitted would draw the same premium price. Id absolutely buy one in a heartbeat, but I wont be paying 7 grand dollars for a stills camera. Is there honestly not a strong enough market prospect for stills-only cameras?


It’s a 5 series like pro mirrorless body. A jack of al trades sort of speak. And sold in the same price range as previous Canon 5 series bodies. video functionality is a bonus. R5 is a primarily pro still camera. Yes, with some video functionality thrown in.


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> most of your criticism does not make any sense. it is a noise.. and noise is annoying as heck.. here you have it.


Thanks for the criticism <3


----------



## koenkooi (Aug 3, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> [..]and I would love to know how many 4K TV users watch YT and the like[..]



As a totally non representative sample of 1 here, when I bought a 4k TV a few years back I tried to make everything 4k capable: chromecast ultra, UHD player, Netflix UHD subscription, etc.

I try to watch youtube vids on the TV and proper 4k content like MKBHD looks much better than proper 1080p content. 

But to be honest, if it wasn't part of the 'moving into the new house with first child on the way' spending spree at that point, I don't think I would've spent that much effort on trying to get everything do 4k.


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

Antono Refa said:


> I, for one, don't even care. I want it for IBIS, the ability to mount 15-35mm f/2.8 w/ IS & 24-70mm f/2.8 w/ IS, the extra resolution, etc.
> 
> My computer screen is 2K. I had a 14 inch TV once, gifted it to a neighbor over 15 years ago, and haven't looked back. Ever since reality shows became a thing, TV became a cultural wasteland filled with inappropriate metaphors and an unrealistic portrayal of life created by the liberal media elite.


What? lol


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

Jack Douglas said:


> Jim JIm you are becoming very boring or worse.
> 
> Jack


Thanks Jack, You too.


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> are we looking at the same camera? it sounds though that your are talking about a completely different R5.


What’s your R5 look like?


----------



## tron (Aug 3, 2020)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> My understanding is that it is applied in camera and can't be deactivated..
> 
> From some of the sample photos posted to this forum though, the sharpness and detail in heavily raised shadows still looks better than the 5Div and R


That is really good news! I wander if this applies to R6 too...


----------



## puffo25 (Aug 3, 2020)

Hi all, for using mainly for fine art b&w lanscape, street, events, pano and night/astro/ star trails photos do you think indeed the R5 is bettee choice than the R6?

R5 has weather sealing and few other plus over the R6. R6 might face less problema with video recording (which is NOT my main interest) and slightly better sensitivity and maybe less noise (because smaller sensor) in low light conditions....


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 3, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> What’s your R5 look like?


Like this:









The First 24 Hours With A Canon EOS R5 Production Model


Initial impressions.




nofilmschool.com


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> your example is not quite correct. if the car was advertised with NO engine, then you received exactly what has been advertised.
> Canon was upfront about limitations around some recording times and also limited availability of 12FPS mechanical shutter mode...
> so.. all the features that Canon claimed for the day one are all present in the final product. there are limitation and they are very finely defined.
> 
> ...


Yea, someone fixed my metaphor to a Bugatti that is marketed at 240 MPH but requires all sorts of special requirements and limitations to get there. So go find that comment lol too many on the page. Not a great tool for video shooters imo. Still waiting on a RF mount cine. Great stills camera with some video is a better way to look at it. Darn canon marketing, am I right?


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> Like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Oh, okay good. I thought you found one that didn’t overheat for video shooters.


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 3, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Yea, someone fixed my metaphor to a Bugatti that is marketed at 240 MPH but requires all sorts of special requirements and limitations to get there. So go find that comment lol too many on the page. Not a great tool for video shooters imo. Still waiting on a RF mount cine. Great stills camera with some video is a better way to look at it. Darn canon marketing, am I right?


could you please demonstrate what In the Canon R5 andR6 press release material contradicted the content of user Manual presentation?
I need a direct quote please not your understanding of marketing language. 
so far you failed to point out what Canon over promised and under delivered.


----------



## blackcoffee17 (Aug 3, 2020)

scyrene said:


> Absolutely valid points *but* don't you think the cinema cameras are expensive largely because they offer those 'pro' video features? Asking for the cheaper stills/hybrid bodies to do what they do is wanting to have your cake and eat it?



Sure but not everyone wants all the PRO features from the cinema cameras, only an option to shoot high quality 4K footage for 1 or 2 hours (events for example). On their already existing camera.


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 3, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Oh, okay good. I thought you found one that didn’t overheat for video shooters.


would you stop trolling already... as asked you before : show me what Canon promised (I need direct quote) and how it contradicted user manual


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> would you stop trolling already... as asked you before : show me what Canon promised (I need direct quote) and how it contradicted user manual


Bro, I’ve commented what I think 1000 times. Go read through the pages of comments for my opinion of their marketing of this camera. You’ll find what you need. Also, there’s nothing in user manual about overheating if you really want to get nit picky. Lol.


----------



## Kit. (Aug 3, 2020)

Thcwub said:


> I kind of feel like people need to stop trying to save face on behalf of the camera for stills photographers on the back of its stills performance. It is a hybrid camera and all that video technology is absolutely coming at a premium. For mine, this product is a failure that perpetuates this issue with hybrid systems. You dont get to defend this as a stills product when so much of the purchase price is hiked up for experimental video tech


_How_ much?

Can you please show me a cheaper camera with similar specs and ergonomics for wildlife photography?

(Just checked my Adobe Lightroom library for 5D2. The ratio of short video clips to photos was 1:5000. I could as well go without any video functionality in my stills camera, if, at you are saying, it would be cheaper)


----------



## dtaylor (Aug 3, 2020)

reefroamer said:


> I disagree. It’s a thermal LIMITATION of the design, which prioritized a small, weather-sealed body with a high Resolution, fast-readout sensor requiring a very high performance DIGIC processor.



Disagree all you want, the competition doesn't have this problem.


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 3, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Bro, I’ve commented what I think 1000 times. Go read through the pages of comments for my opinion of their marketing of this camera. You’ll find what you need. Also, there’s nothing in user manual about overheating if you really want to get nit picky. Lol.


+++ Also, there’s nothing in user manual about overheating if you really want to get nit picky. Lol.

A.M.: page 902 R5 user manual:
* 8K movie recording (RAW, DCI, UHD) has restrictions on possible recording time due to the camera
internal temperature rise. Max possible recording time is approx. 20 min. (at room temperature).
* 4K 60 p movie copped recording has restrictions on possible recording time due to the camera internal
temperature rise. Max possible recording time is approx. 25 min. (at room temperature).

And then page 375:


Red [ ] internal temperature warning icon
If the camera’s internal temperature increases due to prolonged movie recording or under a high ambient temperature, a red [ ] icon will appear.
The red [ ] icon indicates that movie recording will soon be terminated automatically. If this happens, you will not be able to record again until the camera’s internal temperature decreases, so turn off the power and let the camera cool down a while. Note that the time until movie recording stops automatically when the red [ ] icon is displayed varies depending on shooting conditions. Recording a movie at a high temperature for a prolonged period will cause the red
[ ] icon to appear earlier. When you are not recording, always turn off the camera.

[ ] icon
[ ] may be displayed if repeated movie recording or extended use of Live View display increases the camera’s internal temperature. Turn off the camera or take other measures when [ ] is displayed, and wait until the camera cools down. *The camera will turn off automatically if you continue recording while [ ] is displayed. The camera may also turn off automatically if you continue using Live View display while [ ] is displayed.*

I hope you can appreciate Canon delivering a potential overheating statement in a plain English.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 3, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> most of your criticism does not make any sense. it is a noise.. and noise is annoying as heck.. here you have it.


And now it seems most of the criticism has moved, it isn’t the camera it is the marketing! Let’s destroy the product because our sensibilities are disturbed by some marketing....


----------



## Antono Refa (Aug 3, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> What? lol



Its a quote from a TV show.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 3, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Bro, I’ve commented what I think 1000 times. Go read through the pages of comments for my opinion of their marketing of this camera. You’ll find what you need. Also, there’s nothing in user manual about overheating if you really want to get nit picky. Lol.


1000 times to many.

Jack


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 3, 2020)

WhatDoesMStandsFor said:


> That's not a universal truth. You have markets such USA and Japan that are pushing the boundaries, but I've went to Portugal last year and they are still selling 1080p displays in abundance.


Which I get, but those content creators aren’t trying to do it on a R5 are they? Film makers won’t be using a Canon or a Sony unless it’s because the camera is cheap enough to be disposable? Won’t they use the Sony professional range and the Canon Cine, or Red or whatever other range they use?

I’m just trying to understand in my own mind the concern about the higher end video modes for content creators thinking of using an r5 or a Sony where their target market doesn’t have a 4K screen. My limited view says they’re creating internet content, on vimeo, on YT where ever. That doesn’t detract from how good the content is, but if you’re unlikely to watch that content on a 4K device, then how important is all these high end video modes right now?


----------



## reefroamer (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Disagree all you want, the competition doesn't have this problem.


Because they don’t have 45MP sensors capable of producing full-frame 8k/4k120 with IBIS and incredible AF in small handheld product sold at under $4,000. But that was THEIR choice. Now, WE get to decide. Pro and cons either way.


----------



## dtaylor (Aug 3, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> He lies right in the title. " The Canon EOS R5 is NOT AN 8K CAMERA! " If it's not a click-bait and a lie, then what is? We know it *is* an 8K camera!



Oh please...if you're watching his series on the R5, or you watch the first few minutes of this particular video, you know the context of the title. Which is "can you professionally use the 8k?" Show me another filmmaker who put that much effort into trying out the R5 and making it work with a real production set, actors, etc. It's clear he was excited about the camera and wanted to love it. If the R5 had normal recovery times his videos alone would have been a huge feather in Canon's cap and would have sold a boat load of the things.

No one else is going to put more effort into trying to make the R5 look like a jewel for cinema. Anyone who can dismiss his opinion on this matter is simply in denial.



> Are you personally shooting weddings and considering A7SIII instead of R5?



The R5 is a "no buy" for me unless and until enough data comes in to prove it's reliable shooting stills in hot weather. If other people report overheating while shooting stills it's DOA for me.

Assuming stills are OK, it has gone from a "must have this year" purchase to a "meh, maybe skip it" purchase. Strip the video features down to LQ 4k30 (the reliable mode) and it's over $4,000 (gotta count the expensive memory cards) for IBIS, faster fps, eye AF, more DR, and about 2/3 stop better high ISO. That's not a bad list, but there's nothing on that list worth $4k to me. Nothing that crosses the line from "makes life a little easier" to "really changes the quality of my work." I would rather spend the money on trips, glass, etc.

If I was on the 5D3 or even a 5D4 or R then I would likely get it despite the video issues. The jump in resolution/sharpness would push it over the top. But it would still burn to drop $4k on a camera then another $1-1.5k on a hybrid that can actually handle video, and carrying both around. I just cannot believe Canon missed this or thought it unimportant. If you want video at all how can you rely on a camera that might have zero minutes record time because you dared to shoot stills first?

Absent a fix for the thermal issues I'm likely to wait for the rumored 83-100mp R body or an R5 mark II. 

Ironically, if Canon had released a 5D5 with the same internals it would probably be a "must buy this year" for me. No EVF processing + a larger heat sink would likely resolve the thermal issues.



> So personally I don't care at all, and I don't know why I should care about wedding photographers requirements.



Canon should care. Assuming a fix is physically possible at this point, fix vs. no fix will impact sales and the number of people on the RF mount and buying RF lenses. System loyalty from glass investments means this will impact sales for years.


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 3, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> As a totally non representative sample of 1 here, when I bought a 4k TV a few years back I tried to make everything 4k capable: chromecast ultra, UHD player, Netflix UHD subscription, etc.
> 
> I try to watch youtube vids on the TV and proper 4k content like MKBHD looks much better than proper 1080p content.
> 
> But to be honest, if it wasn't part of the 'moving into the new house with first child on the way' spending spree at that point, I don't think I would've spent that much effort on trying to get everything do 4k.



That’s interesting thanks. I’d love to know how to work out how typical you are of the target market. 

I don’t mean to offend anyone but smartphones became the most popular camera cause it was good enough quality, at the right price and convenient. I just wonder how much they care about a 45MP photo or a 4k60 video? 

I don’t know either, but I could guess, how many people are happy with streamed 4K movies etc when the UHD disk is better quality? I think again the convenience, price and good enough means streaming will continue to become dominant across films and music and a minority (perhaps to differentiate) will produce 8k / 12k but ultimately when viewed it won’t be as the creators intended....


----------



## dtaylor (Aug 3, 2020)

WhatDoesMStandsFor said:


> Now the same thing is happening with the EOS R5. A lot of bash right now at its launch, but in 12 months a lot of people will be uploading their Youtube videos with "I've switched to the EOS R5"



Only if Canon can fix this. You can't switch to a cinema camera that regularly laughs at you when you want to record.


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Oh please...if you're watching his series on the R5, or you watch the first few minutes of this particular video, you know the context of the title. Which is "can you professionally use the 8k?" Show me another filmmaker who put that much effort into trying out the R5 and making it work with a real production set, actors, etc. It's clear he was excited about the camera and wanted to love it. If the R5 had normal recovery times his videos alone would have been a huge feather in Canon's cap and would have sold a boat load of the things.
> 
> No one else is going to put more effort into trying to make the R5 look like a jewel for cinema. Anyone who can dismiss his opinion on this matter is simply in denial.
> 
> ...


But as I said earlier on, in a previous video he said Professional film makers would have 4 of these on hand, and cited he’s been on shoots where they have like 4 Reds.

In another video he says 8k he would using sparingly, like on drone shots.

Everyone is allowed to change their mind, but he hasn’t changed his content. He’s just produced a contradictory video. I agree on the that use case it didn’t do what he needed. I just start to switch off when people change their views without providing an explanation - without that I am lead to believe he has different motives....


----------



## dtaylor (Aug 3, 2020)

Besisika said:


> It has been a month since the camera was announced (almost) and you guys still whine about it.



Trimming your armchair psychoanalysis to explain the actual "why" in simple terms...

If Olympus released a new body tomorrow with these problems I wouldn't care at all. I'm not in m43 and never will be. The people "whining" are doing so because they love Canon and wanted to see a top tier R body to put their EF and RF glass on. I *want* to throw $4k at Canon for the ultimate hybrid FF mirrorless. But Canon stumbled on a fairly significant point. Again, it's not the record time limits, it's the heat buildup shooting stills + recovery. All the exciting video modes are worthless if you can't depend on them turning on. Can't even predict if/when they'll turn on.

So it's back to the waiting game with Canon. I'm frustrated but probably will wait because I love my 5Ds and EF glass. OTOH I won't be buying RF glass, and there's no "lock in" with me because of that. And some people just won't wait any longer.

You would have to be blind to miss the pent up market pressure from professional and advanced amateur Canon users.


----------



## drama (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Oh please...if you're watching his series on the R5, or you watch the first few minutes of this particular video, you know the context of the title. Which is "can you professionally use the 8k?" Show me another filmmaker who put that much effort into trying out the R5 and making it work with a real production set, actors, etc. It's clear he was excited about the camera and wanted to love it. If the R5 had normal recovery times his videos alone would have been a huge feather in Canon's cap and would have sold a boat load of the things.
> 
> No one else is going to put more effort into trying to make the R5 look like a jewel for cinema. Anyone who can dismiss his opinion on this matter is simply in denial.
> 
> ...


See, bad faith waffle like this annoys me. Nowhere is there any mention of the camera overheating in stills mode.
And nowhere in any of your posts is an understanding of how you would shoot video clips with it.
This is just another account here to trash the new camera either because they’re a Sony fan or just bored on the internet and needing to complain about something. No facts, no basis for complaint, and therefore no point in listening.


----------



## dtaylor (Aug 3, 2020)

Kit. said:


> How many minutes?



Not 120.



> It's not, because it's flat.



No, surface area exposed to airflow is *precisely why* airflow would efficiently remove the heat if it was the sensor overheating.



> Would you want to need to wear gloves to operate it in +15 degrees Celsius?



Is that a problem for the Z6, Z7, A7 series, A7r series, or XT series?


----------



## dtaylor (Aug 3, 2020)

drama said:


> See, bad faith waffle like this annoys me. Nowhere is there any mention of the camera overheating in stills mode.



Two user reports so far. Which may be nothing, or may be something. But given the conditions I sometimes shoot in, there's *no way* I'm dropping $4k until I know for sure that it's nothing.



> And nowhere in any of your posts is an understanding of how you would shoot video clips with it.



I understand I *can't* shoot video clips with it if it's in thermal protection from stills shooting or from an earlier video clip. Again, the problem is not the record time limits. *The problem is the recovery.*



> This is just another account here to trash the new camera either because they’re a Sony fan or just bored on the internet and needing to complain about something. No facts, no basis for complaint, and therefore no point in listening.



You better check my posting history here before throwing around nonsense like that.


----------



## dtaylor (Aug 3, 2020)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> I got really excited about this too! It's not quite an apples to apples comparison though.. the R5 is applying some noise reduction to the RAW files at low ISO. Still a step forward from the 5d IV and R though



Judging from the IQ of sample files I'm not sure it matters practically if it's through light NR at low ISO. The files are gorgeous so they're not sacrificing resolution or sharpness (or at least not enough to matter).

It's also a dual gain sensor which is a big step for Canon. I've complained a lot about the thermal issues but I'll hand it to Canon on the stills IQ.


----------



## Kiton (Aug 3, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> So, after a few days, I can honestly say, I love the R5. The stills image quality is superb and the AF is such a step forward from the R it makes taking images of moving things so much better. No overheating issues even though temperatures in the UK has been quite warm 30 degrees yesterday.
> 
> The biggest gripe I have is setting the cards up to save what I want to each card and then trying to import onto my MAC when Lightroom doesn't support CR3 RAW files.  I used to have 2 cards in the 7d MKII which was pretty easy to set up but even following the manual I cant seem to get it how I want. I know it's not supposed to be a manly thing to do to refer to the manual but I will re read it and try different settings. I downloaded Adobe DNG 12.4 Beta but for some reason it wouldn't recognise my card so I resorted to importing as JPEG. Not great. Come on Adobe get this plug in sorted!
> 
> ...



If I may suggest,

take a look at photo mechanic as your first line work flow step.
Ingest both cards where ever you like, caption, add all the iptc you wish, rate, divide into sub folder etc and then send those you wish to LR or PS.

It isn't for everyone, but for my workflow, it is the best 1st stage captioning, selection tool made.
I helped a friend set his up, he sends selects to LR and outs that he weants to keep to a hard drive dedicated to outs.

Worth a look, they give a free trial. Almost every newspaper, wire service shooter uses PM, simple, easy, FAST first stage.


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## koenkooi (Aug 3, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> That’s interesting thanks. I’d love to know how to work out how typical you are of the target market.
> 
> I don’t mean to offend anyone but smartphones became the most popular camera cause it was good enough quality, at the right price and convenient. I just wonder how much they care about a 45MP photo or a 4k60 video?



First kid, 4 years ago: EOS M in the go-bag for the hospital delivery. Second kid, 1.5 years ago: iPhone in trouser pocket.



Stu_bert said:


> I don’t know either, but I could guess, how many people are happy with streamed 4K movies etc when the UHD disk is better quality? I think again the convenience, price and good enough means streaming will continue to become dominant across films and music and a minority (perhaps to differentiate) will produce 8k / 12k but ultimately when viewed it won’t be as the creators intended....



Having Disney+ is so much less effort for entertaining toddlers than swapping disks in and out of the player. It also makes it a lot easier to say "OK, you can watch the let-it-go scene on my phone" and only that scene instead of going "I've gone through this much trouble and disk menus that they can watch half the movie" 
So strangely enough streaming cuts down on screen time for the little ones here instead of making it worse (as it does for me).


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## dtaylor (Aug 3, 2020)

reefroamer said:


> Because they don’t have 45MP sensors capable of producing full-frame 8k/4k120 with IBIS and incredible AF in small handheld product sold at under $4,000.



Once again for those in the back of the class: *the problem is not the record time limits.* Those are actually decent. *The problem is heat retention.* Just turning the camera on eats into the record time limits. Shooting stills can drop them to zero. And even if you get the full time from a cold start, you then have to wait hours for recovery. And this is true for over sampled 4k30, not just for 4k120 or 8k.

Several competitors have over sampled 4k30 *without* this problem. I don't know why it becomes a religious/political issue to just admit Canon got the thermals wrong in this design. If you don't care about video then great, the R5 is an amazing stills camera. Love it, enjoy it. It's still frustrating to see Canon have a potential game-winning home run that stumbles on something that would have been so minor to fix in early development.


----------



## WhatDoesMStandsFor (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Only if Canon can fix this. You can't switch to a cinema camera that regularly laughs at you when you want to record.


The EOS R5 is not a cinema camera. It was never meant to be a cinema camera and Canon never advertised it as being one.

If they switch to the R5, they know it's not a cinema camera, just like the EOS R prior to that.


----------



## scyrene (Aug 3, 2020)

puffo25 said:


> Hi all, for using mainly for fine art b&w lanscape, street, events, pano and night/astro/ star trails photos do you think indeed the R5 is bettee choice than the R6?



IMHO street, events, night/astro I would choose R6, landscape I would choose R5.



puffo25 said:


> R5 has weather sealing and few other plus over the R6. R6 might face less problema with video recording (which is NOT my main interest) and slightly better sensitivity and maybe less noise (because smaller sensor) in low light conditions....



There are reports of overheating on the R6 video too, I wouldn't like to choose between them on that. In practice you won't get any better high ISO performance on the lower res sensor. 

Tbh while it's very hard to give advice as to what someone else should buy, if you have the budget, get the R5. If not, the R6 will be fine for most purposes.


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## scyrene (Aug 3, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Bro, I’ve commented what I think 1000 times. Go read through the pages of comments for my opinion of their marketing of this camera. You’ll find what you need. Also, there’s nothing in user manual about overheating if you really want to get nit picky. Lol.



Including this



JIM JIM said:


> I bid a farewell to this thread.


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Two user reports so far. Which may be nothing, or may be something. But given the conditions I sometimes shoot in, there's *no way* I'm dropping $4k until I know for sure that it's nothing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If I were you I'd be thinking/expressing much the same. I being me in a different scenario, there is nothing so far to dampen my enthusiasm and furthermore I do see a huge overreaction on various fronts that has nothing to do with reality. I certainly agree that cool down times are very important for some people's usage and I'm sure Canon is well aware now, if not before. I'm really not sure if there is much they can do about that - I don't have the expertise even if I had the full details.

Jack


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## WhatDoesMStandsFor (Aug 3, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> Which I get, but those content creators aren’t trying to do it on a R5 are they? Film makers won’t be using a Canon or a Sony unless it’s because the camera is cheap enough to be disposable? Won’t they use the Sony professional range and the Canon Cine, or Red or whatever other range they use?
> 
> I’m just trying to understand in my own mind the concern about the higher end video modes for content creators thinking of using an r5 or a Sony where their target market doesn’t have a 4K screen. My limited view says they’re creating internet content, on vimeo, on YT where ever. That doesn’t detract from how good the content is, but if you’re unlikely to watch that content on a 4K device, then how important is all these high end video modes right now?


They can start doing it with the R5 or the A7sIII as well, there's not a single problem in doing that. Even the R6 or the Nikon Z5 can be thrown into the mix. It all depends on your demands for your customers.

If you think of a content creator on Youtube, per example, you can consider that his audience would be his clients. In that sense, he would need to deliver a content that his audience are willing to watch, either it being tech review, comedy sketches or short films.

If you are an athlete and wants to start a mtb channel, you may be better suited by using a GoPro and showing you riding trails instead of using a hybrid/cinema camera and stopping to talk a little bit about the trail. Alternatively, if you wanted to showcase yours skills riding these trails, you'll probably need to hire some professionals to handle external shots and put up a comprehensive video for the audience. From a one man operation it becomes a full size crew and the camera gear used, in exchange, also changes.

Last year I've helped a Youtube creator to fix his lightning issues. He uses a M50 in 4K to produce most of his content - Yes, the M50, a camera two years old that shoots cropped 4K without DPAF - and it works fines for him and his public. At the same time, I've also got to know another Youtuber which used to shoot everything on a stills cameras and recently moved to a cinema camera because he's starting to work on bigger projects and doesn't want to deal with the limitations that hybrid cameras offers. And this second guys doesn't even use Canon - he used to shoot on a A7III and purchased a FS5II.

Different people = different needs.


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## scyrene (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Assuming stills are OK, it has gone from a "must have this year" purchase to a "meh, maybe skip it" purchase. Strip the video features down to LQ 4k30 (the reliable mode) and it's over $4,000 (gotta count the expensive memory cards) for IBIS, faster fps, eye AF, more DR, and about 2/3 stop better high ISO. That's not a bad list, but there's nothing on that list worth $4k to me. Nothing that crosses the line from "makes life a little easier" to "really changes the quality of my work." I would rather spend the money on trips, glass, etc.



Genuine question, would the higher res video modes having fewer restrictions have 'really changed the quality' of your work? You've been a voice of reason on these forums for a long time, I'm just a bit surprised by your hyperbole on this thread.


----------



## Go Wild (Aug 3, 2020)

I got my baby!  First of all handling this camera is awesome!! I made some clips in 4k HQ, 4k HDR and 4k 120fps. Viewing in the screen of the camera I was amazed by how great footage is! Ohhh and the IBIS, my god! What a dream!! I was used to the IBIS of the A7r3 and I can tell you is day to night difference!!! So far.....I am REALLY HAPPY!!!!!


----------



## unfocused (Aug 3, 2020)

This_That said:


> (1) Blaming the Marketing department (and the people who approved the campaign) is the right thing to do. Not the right thing is to condemn "Canon" (whoever that may be) for straight out lying...
> ...Engineers are horrified about the campaign but cannot discuss anything nor change the mind of Marketing.



I get tired of this "engineers are perfect" B.S.

The marketing department does not do anything without the express approval of senior management, which is going to include engineers and designers.

Perhaps you are not familiar with a well-run company. But, Canon is a well-run company and in such companies all marketing campaigns are reviewed by the senior management to be sure it is correct. The engineering and design team is represented in the review process. The legal department will also review everything the marketing department produces to assure that they aren't making claims that will later become actionable items. 

"Engineering" is not blameless in all this. Burying an asterisk in a document like it was a notice in "The Hitchhikers Guide to the Galaxy" is not adequate disclosure. They should not have designed a product that has the kinds of limitations that the R5 has and they certainly should not have misled the marketing department about those limitations. Canon is a very engineering-centric company, with senior management often coming up through the ranks of design and engineering. They are not just some group of geeky misfits along for the ride and at the mercy of everyone else.


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## David_E (Aug 3, 2020)

Fer chrissake, if you want a video camera, buy a video camera, and do stop annoying us with your whining. My R5 performs beautifully, blew me away with its *focus tracking of the eye and head of a hummingbird with a 600mm lens.*


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## BeenThere (Aug 3, 2020)

scyrene said:


> Really? Where is that? I've never seen an 8K display for sale here in the UK. Mainstream tv is still HD, and I find streaming anything much above HD prohibitively slow/file sizes are too large (but I expect it's easier in major cities now).


OK, OK. I am speaking of U.S. market.


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## Stu_bert (Aug 3, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> First kid, 4 years ago: EOS M in the go-bag for the hospital delivery. Second kid, 1.5 years ago: iPhone in trouser pocket.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks again.

I dont know whether to conclude the impact on high end video recording on the R5 is that significant....

I guess at the end of the day, if people want 4k60p or above and suppliers can provide it, then that a sale for them. Just seems that there is a lot of passion for something which I still don't perceive many end (target) consumers of that content will appreciate.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> And now it seems most of the criticism has moved, it isn’t the camera it is the marketing! Let’s destroy the product because our sensibilities are disturbed by some marketing....


I have always said it was the marketing. But go off. If it was marketed differently, it would be a lot more quiet.


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## Besisika (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Trimming your armchair psychoanalysis to explain the actual "why" in simple terms...
> 
> If Olympus released a new body tomorrow with these problems I wouldn't care at all. I'm not in m43 and never will be. The people "whining" are doing so because they love Canon and wanted to see a top tier R body to put their EF and RF glass on. I *want* to throw $4k at Canon for the ultimate hybrid FF mirrorless. But Canon stumbled on a fairly significant point. Again, it's not the record time limits, it's the heat buildup shooting stills + recovery. All the exciting video modes are worthless if you can't depend on them turning on. Can't even predict if/when they'll turn on.
> 
> ...


It is OK to morn, but for how long? It begins to sound like a broken record. Don't you think? Unless you intend to do something about it. Since you are doing the complain, come up with a suggestion to Canon, then move on. You don't say anything new, you repeat what other 200 guys before you, and you do it over and over again. Not personally you, of course, but some people (I never paid attention to the names).
I think Canon heard it already, if they listen, and will do something about it, if they care. Time to move on, and wait for whatever they or other company will do to fix it.


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 3, 2020)

scyrene said:


> IMHO street, events, night/astro I would choose R6, landscape I would choose R5.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Suggest you either go the route of hiring both for a weekend, or take the plunge on one and if you have a dealer which accepts returns then go that route...

Or wait for comparative reviews of the subjects that you like to take - I think it is too early - maybe towards the end of August we will start to see such comparisons...


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 3, 2020)

Go Wild said:


> I got my baby!  First of all handling this camera is awesome!! I made some clips in 4k HQ, 4k HDR and 4k 120fps. Viewing in the screen of the camera I was amazed by how great footage is! Ohhh and the IBIS, my god! What a dream!! I was used to the IBIS of the A7r3 and I can tell you is day to night difference!!! So far.....I am REALLY HAPPY!!!!!


Well, you better stop being happy and absorb all the critical information presented in this thread. How can you possibly be happy! Must have extremely low expectations!!

Jack


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## Stu_bert (Aug 3, 2020)

scyrene said:


> Genuine question, would the higher res video modes having fewer restrictions have 'really changed the quality' of your work? You've been a voice of reason on these forums for a long time, I'm just a bit surprised by your hyperbole on this thread.


Plus, is your use of high end video for you personally or for you commercially.


----------



## dtaylor (Aug 3, 2020)

scyrene said:


> Genuine question, would the higher res video modes having fewer restrictions have 'really changed the quality' of your work?



On the video side: absolutely. On the stills side: my main body is a 5Ds and while the R5 sensor improves upon some aspects of IQ, overall it wouldn't make a difference in my prints. (The DR would make life easier, but not change the quality of my work because I shoot/blend two frames where needed.)

That's not a knock against the R5 on stills. From the samples I've seen they are *gorgeous*. They have the crisp, fine detail that's characteristic of high resolution 35mm and mid resolution MF. If you're a stills only shooter the R5 is a big upgrade from, say, a 5D3, just on sensor IQ alone. Now add IBIS, 12fps, advanced AF, etc.



> You've been a voice of reason on these forums for a long time, I'm just a bit surprised by your hyperbole on this thread.



I'm frustrated. I've held off on purchasing a more video capable body hoping that Canon would nail it with the R5. They've come so close. Absent the thermal issues this is an amazing camera across the board.

I don't want another brand for video. I want to be on FF Canon. So much so that if the R6 did not have the same thermal issues I would add an R6 for video despite "only" having 20mp for stills. The 1DX3 sensor is solid and it would still be a good 2nd stills camera. Canon has come so close to knocking it out of the park with these two bodies. It's painful to see them miss on something like this.

Again I'll reiterate: if you're stills only...and if there are no stills thermal issues (and there may not be, we've only got two reports so far, both could be batteries or out of spec bodies)...*the R5 knocks it out of the park.* Easy upgrade choice from earlier 5 series models and the R. Also from the 5Ds/sR depending on the value you place on IBIS, DR, fps, and subject tracking AF. I place value on those things, just not quite $4k at this time.

I don't hate the camera or think it's a lemon. I hate that there's one serious flaw that will lead to me adding some other brand + adapters and waiting for Canon's next release.

Or maybe I should thank Canon. Maybe I would kick myself if I bought an R5 only to see Canon release an 83-100mp R5s (R3?) early next year


----------



## twoheadedboy (Aug 3, 2020)

The comments about non-HQ 4k on the R5 vs. "regular" 4k on the R6 intrigued me. Has anyone done an analysis comparing the quality between the two qualitatively?

I have an R5, and am still inclined to use non-HQ because it lacks the heat limitations, which is more relevant to my use (and still better than FHD by a country mile). But it would be interesting to know which one is truly putting out better video when comparing them directly.


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> +++ Also, there’s nothing in user manual about overheating if you really want to get nit picky. Lol.
> 
> A.M.: page 902 E5 user manual:
> * 8K movie recording (RAW, DCI, UHD) has restrictions on possible recording time due to the camera
> ...


Fair, I see it and I admit I missed it. I thought it was only listed on their specs under video shooting a few days after people questioned them on it. The user manual did take a month to release though and to play devils advocate, I would bet that most user manuals have an overheat warning as such found on 375... So that’s null to me. 902 is the best I’ve seen in the user manual for overheating and it doesn’t seem to indicate that it also overheats in 4KHQ? Listen, the user manual could literally say “don’t buy this camera if you’re a video shooter, buy a cine” but they still marketed it as a revolutionary video camera and that’s my thing. It can’t be if it’s unusable after just a few minutes (usability is subjective as discussed in earlier comments). Appreciate you though! And I would never outright bash or be rude to anyone on this forum for their opinion instead I just disagree. These are purely opinions that I stand by until I use the camera myself and then I either stand corrected on its usability or I send it back. And for all stills photographers, I’ve said it once and again, I hope you fall in love with it. I’ll be jealous of the eye tracking if I don’t.


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

Jack Douglas said:


> Well, you better stop being happy and absorb all the critical information presented in this thread. How can you possibly be happy! Must have extremely low expectations!!
> 
> Jack


The perfect camera for someone might be different for someone else. I’m glad they’re happy and I hope it ends up being as close to perfect experience as possible.


----------



## twoheadedboy (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Once again for those in the back of the class: *the problem is not the record time limits.* Those are actually decent. *The problem is heat retention.* Just turning the camera on eats into the record time limits. Shooting stills can drop them to zero. And even if you get the full time from a cold start, you then have to wait hours for recovery. And this is true for over sampled 4k30, not just for 4k120 or 8k.
> 
> Several competitors have over sampled 4k30 *without* this problem. I don't know why it becomes a religious/political issue to just admit Canon got the thermals wrong in this design. If you don't care about video then great, the R5 is an amazing stills camera. Love it, enjoy it. It's still frustrating to see Canon have a potential game-winning home run that stumbles on something that would have been so minor to fix in early development.



I have not seen anything conclusive showing that "having the camera on reduces record time". There have been a couple forum posters, but not a single reviewer that has demonstrated this that I've been able to find. It's certainly not been my experience to-date.

Also, I'm not sure what part of your background gives you the expertise in consumer products/engineering to suggest it would have been "minor to fix" this. We know "why" this is happening, and it's the fact that it's the sealed design of a 5D-class body and small size (combined with everything else that's generating more heat). By my estimation, solving this problem would require fundamental changes to the camera's design one way or another.


----------



## RayValdez360 (Aug 3, 2020)

twoheadedboy said:


> I have not seen anything conclusive showing that "having the camera on reduces record time". There have been a couple forum posters, but not a single reviewer that has demonstrated this that I've been able to find. It's certainly not been my experience to-date.
> 
> Also, I'm not sure what part of your background gives you the expertise in consumer products/engineering to suggest it would have been "minor to fix" this. We know "why" this is happening, and it's the fact that it's the sealed design of a 5D-class body and small size (combined with everything else that's generating more heat). By my estimation, solving this problem would require fundamental changes to the camera's design one way or another.


the camera generates heats if it is turned on and active. thats just common sense.


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

twoheadedboy said:


> I have not seen anything conclusive showing that "having the camera on reduces record time". There have been a couple forum posters, but not a single reviewer that has demonstrated this that I've been able to find. It's certainly not been my experience to-date.
> 
> Also, I'm not sure what part of your background gives you the expertise in consumer products/engineering to suggest it would have been "minor to fix" this. We know "why" this is happening, and it's the fact that it's the sealed design of a 5D-class body and small size (combined with everything else that's generating more heat). By my estimation, solving this problem would require fundamental changes to the camera's design one way or another.


*Canon EOS R5/R6 ProAV TV* *<- *This link, time stamp 55:20.

Also, Mehdia was the only saving grace for pure honesty from Canon on overheating I saw in the very early days of pre-orders.


----------



## dtaylor (Aug 3, 2020)

twoheadedboy said:


> I have not seen anything conclusive showing that "having the camera on reduces record time". There have been a couple forum posters, but not a single reviewer that has demonstrated this that I've been able to find. It's certainly not been my experience to-date.



I know Armando mentioned it, and I thought both DPReview and the Northrups mentioned it. Whether you experience it or not will likely depend on ambient temperatures and sunlight exposure. Also possibly on settings like overheat control.



> Also, I'm not sure what part of your background gives you the expertise in consumer products/engineering to suggest it would have been "minor to fix" this. We know "why" this is happening, and it's the fact that it's the sealed design of a 5D-class body and small size (combined with everything else that's generating more heat). By my estimation, solving this problem would require fundamental changes to the camera's design one way or another.



The competition doesn't have this problem. You could say "but they don't have 8k or 4k120" except this happens with oversampled 4k. And if you say "but they're not reading 45mp", the R6 has the same problem.

I have a relevant background but it doesn't matter whether I'm right or wrong about how "easy" the fix would have been in the design stages. (Admittedly I don't have a unit to tear down to try to prove/disprove my own statement.) What matters is that the competition is able to deal with this and do so in small, sealed bodies. (Well...in Sony's case we could debate the sealing. Never the less...)


----------



## davidhfe (Aug 3, 2020)

twoheadedboy said:


> The comments about non-HQ 4k on the R5 vs. "regular" 4k on the R6 intrigued me. Has anyone done an analysis comparing the quality between the two qualitatively?
> 
> I have an R5, and am still inclined to use non-HQ because it lacks the heat limitations, which is more relevant to my use (and still better than FHD by a country mile). But it would be interesting to know which one is truly putting out better video when comparing them directly.



I've seen side by side crops posted to YouTube. The HQ footage has significantly more detail, less aliasing, less noise.

When looking at real world footage, it's a bit harder. There were some shots where the HQ footage was clear, e.g. Chris' hair was almost distractingly sharp. Just outstanding quality. The standard 4K still looked good, and wasn't jarring when intercut. If they were identically framed, I think you'd notice a cut if even at 1080 YouTube. I did watch another set of clips that were at IPB though and at that point I started losing which was which. I also thought Armando's 4K-std shots were outstanding but those were professionally lit, and even 1080 likely would have looked great.

The 4K HQ is the best 4K you're going to see short of an ARRI or RED in terms of sharpness. It's really stunning. Others have better DR (A7SIII is like a full stop better practically) and are much better suited for 60/120, which don't have a HQ mode.

The DPR line sums it up for me:


> If the quality difference between 4K HQ and standard 4K capture were not so dramatic, this would bother me less. However, once you start viewing and editing the gorgeous 4K HQ footage, it makes it that much harder to go back to inferior line skipped 4K, and that’s a type of disappointment I don’t want to be dealing with on a shoot.


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## dtaylor (Aug 3, 2020)

twoheadedboy said:


> The comments about non-HQ 4k on the R5 vs. "regular" 4k on the R6 intrigued me. Has anyone done an analysis comparing the quality between the two qualitatively?
> 
> I have an R5, and am still inclined to use non-HQ because it lacks the heat limitations, which is more relevant to my use (and still better than FHD by a country mile). But it would be interesting to know which one is truly putting out better video when comparing them directly.



Tony did side by side magnified comparisons in his videos. The HQ mode is definitely better. That said, I'm torn on the value of pixel peeping video. To give an example: if you compare the M6 II and the X-T3/4 in DPReview's video comparison tool, which magnifies the view, the M6 II looks horrible. But if you download 4k samples from someone like DSI Pictures on YouTube they both look great.

So there may not be that much practical difference between 4k and HQ 4k when viewed as intended on a 4k monitor. Stills can be printed very large and then inspected at close distances. Movies are not like that. Motion both adds to your impression of detail and smears away flaws you might otherwise notice in a print. Regular 4k might be just fine for most uses.

I'd still have an issue with the thermal limitations in large part because I love 4k60 slowed down.


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## koenkooi (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Once again for those in the back of the class: *the problem is not the record time limits.* Those are actually decent. *The problem is heat retention.* Just turning the camera on eats into the record time limits. Shooting stills can drop them to zero. And even if you get the full time from a cold start, you then have to wait hours for recovery. And this is true for over sampled 4k30, not just for 4k120 or 8k.
> 
> Several competitors have over sampled 4k30 *without* this problem. I don't know why it becomes a religious/political issue to just admit Canon got the thermals wrong in this design. If you don't care about video then great, the R5 is an amazing stills camera. Love it, enjoy it. It's still frustrating to see Canon have a potential game-winning home run that stumbles on something that would have been so minor to fix in early development.



I'm having flashbacks to the lack of 24p discussions.


twoheadedboy said:


> The comments about non-HQ 4k on the R5 vs. "regular" 4k on the R6 intrigued me. Has anyone done an analysis comparing the quality between the two qualitatively?
> 
> I have an R5, and am still inclined to use non-HQ because it lacks the heat limitations, which is more relevant to my use (and still better than FHD by a country mile). But it would be interesting to know which one is truly putting out better video when comparing them directly.



This one has all the 8k and 4k options, but only in a short, unscientific test:


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## WhatDoesMStandsFor (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Once again for those in the back of the class: *the problem is not the record time limits.* Those are actually decent. *The problem is heat retention.* Just turning the camera on eats into the record time limits. Shooting stills can drop them to zero. And even if you get the full time from a cold start, you then have to wait hours for recovery. And this is true for over sampled 4k30, not just for 4k120 or 8k.


Yes, but I've also saw the article on No Film School were they shot +1500 photos befores started recording and managed to get close to 20 minutes before the camera shot down due to heat. Look at the 8K 4:2:2 10bit outdoor test.









Too Hot To Handle? The Canon R5 Heat Check


Testing the Canon R5 overheating in the real world.




nofilmschool.com





My guess is that the Overheat Control feature needs to be turned on all the time if you're going to shoot both stills and video.


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## Chris.Chapterten (Aug 3, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> I've seen side by side crops posted to YouTube. The HQ footage has significantly more detail, less aliasing, less noise.
> 
> When looking at real world footage, it's a bit harder. There were some shots where the HQ footage was clear, e.g. Chris' hair was almost distractingly sharp. Just outstanding quality. The standard 4K still looked good, and wasn't jarring when intercut. If they were identically framed, I think you'd notice a cut if even at 1080 YouTube. I did watch another set of clips that were at IPB though and at that point I started losing which was which. I also thought Armando's 4K-std shots were outstanding but those were professionally lit, and even 1080 likely would have looked great.
> 
> ...


The 4K HQ footage does look amazing. Much better than the standard 4K. I would really like to see how the 1.6x crop oversampled 4K footage compares to the HQ mode. I would rather deal with the crop and keep a higher quality personally.


----------



## tron (Aug 3, 2020)

As much as we wish there is no camera that is perfect for anything (despite that there are more general purpose cameras like the 5 series).


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## davidhfe (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> I have a relevant background but it doesn't matter whether I'm right or wrong about how "easy" the fix would have been in the design stages. (Admittedly I don't have a unit to tear down to try to prove/disprove my own statement.) What matters is that the competition is able to deal with this and do so in small, sealed bodies. (Well...in Sony's case we could debate the sealing. Never the less...)



The competition does deal with it, but those bodies also have compromises:
- Z7, A7R: No 4K-HFR or HQ modes.
- A7S: Limited resolution
- SH1: Active cooling, larger body
- Sigma fp: Large passive radiator, No HFR
- Fuji, GHR: Small sensor, fuji still has thermal problems
- R5: Huge set of options, the most interesting ones have significant thermal limits that make them unsuitable for some types of pro work.
- R6: I have nothing positive to add

All of the above are very reasonable engineering tradeoffs. I don't think it's fair to say the competition is "able to deal with it" though.


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## Chris.Chapterten (Aug 3, 2020)

WhatDoesMStandsFor said:


> Yes, but I've also saw the article on No Film School were they shot +1500 photos befores started recording and managed to get close to 20 minutes before the camera shot down due to heat. Look at the 8K 4:2:2 10bit outdoor test.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That's a really strange test. After overheating occurred they left the camera powered on with the display timer set to 30 minutes so it was constantly running. I would like to see the same tests done again with the camera powered off when cooling down...


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## dtaylor (Aug 3, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> All of the above are very reasonable engineering tradeoffs. I don't think it's fair to say the competition is "able to deal with it" though.



You left out Z6, A73, S1...probably forgetting something else. Do they have all the modes of the R5? Nope. Do they recover faster after shooting over sampled 4k? They certainly appear to, though DPReview's testing looks better than some of the other reports on the R5/R6.



> fuji still has thermal problems



Not really as they recover quickly.


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## twoheadedboy (Aug 3, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> *Canon EOS R5/R6 ProAV TV* *<- *This link, time stamp 55:20.
> 
> Also, Mehdia was the only saving grace for pure honesty from Canon on overheating I saw in the very early days of pre-orders.



Thanks for this. What I took from what she said is that the temp is going up from non-photo/video ops, but what I didn't hear is a direct correlation with "first video recording length" or a limited ability to shoot stills. What that suggests - to me - is that the 1st video length is the 1st video length (+/= a small amount in modes limited to less than 29:59), but in a situation where the video was not started "cold", the recovery/refresh time is going to be longer, particularly in a hot ambient environment, because of the additional heat unrelated to the video recorded. Are you seeing anything that suggests that someone who's had the camera in standby and/or taken some stills cannot get 20 minutes of 8k raw in a "room temperature" environment?


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## twoheadedboy (Aug 3, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> I've seen side by side crops posted to YouTube. The HQ footage has significantly more detail, less aliasing, less noise.
> 
> When looking at real world footage, it's a bit harder. There were some shots where the HQ footage was clear, e.g. Chris' hair was almost distractingly sharp. Just outstanding quality. The standard 4K still looked good, and wasn't jarring when intercut. If they were identically framed, I think you'd notice a cut if even at 1080 YouTube. I did watch another set of clips that were at IPB though and at that point I started losing which was which. I also thought Armando's 4K-std shots were outstanding but those were professionally lit, and even 1080 likely would have looked great.
> 
> ...



Not HQ. I understand HQ is better. What I want to know is R5 "Non-HQ" 4k 30p UHD vs. R6 "standard" 4k 30p UHD.


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## Kit. (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Not 120.


Can you please show me your calculations?



dtaylor said:


> No, surface area exposed to airflow is *precisely why* airflow would efficiently remove the heat if it was the sensor overheating.


No, it's precisely why it *wouldn't*.

Why do you think there are extended surface heatsinks attached to CPUs, and not just fans directly blowing to CPU surfaces?



dtaylor said:


> Is that a problem for the Z6, Z7, A7 series, A7r series, or XT series?


What does it have to do with your theory that it's "DIGIC processor was [not] properly heat piped"?


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

twoheadedboy said:


> Thanks for this. What I took from what she said is that the temp is going up from non-photo/video ops, but what I didn't hear is a direct correlation with "first video recording length" or a limited ability to shoot stills. What that suggests - to me - is that the 1st video length is the 1st video length (+/= a small amount in modes limited to less than 29:59), but in a situation where the video was not started "cold", the recovery/refresh time is going to be longer, particularly in a hot ambient environment, because of the additional heat unrelated to the video recorded. Are you seeing anything that suggests that someone who's had the camera in standby and/or taken some stills cannot get 20 minutes of 8k raw in a "room temperature" environment?


Yes. Having the camera turned ON in standby mode will increase internal temperature.


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## twoheadedboy (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> The competition doesn't have this problem. You could say "but they don't have 8k or 4k120" except this happens with oversampled 4k. And if you say "but they're not reading 45mp", the R6 has the same problem.



Is there any SLR-format camera other than the forthcoming Sony a7S III that features a video mode greater than 4k 30p which isn't limited by heat (but is limited relating to stills, file formats, card formats, and other areas)?


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## twoheadedboy (Aug 3, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Yes. Having the camera turned ON in standby mode will increase internal temperature.



That didn't answer my question.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

twoheadedboy said:


> That didn't answer my question.


When you start the camera into standby mode the clock begins to tick and you lose the full potential of estimated time provided by Canon and other testers before overheating. Might not get a full 20 minutes if you've been composing a shot and etc for a few minutes with the camera on standby as one would - White balance, exposing, and so on. Cool down should be about the same after a overheat shutdown no matter how you got there.


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## dtaylor (Aug 3, 2020)

twoheadedboy said:


> Not HQ. I understand HQ is better. What I want to know is R5 "Non-HQ" 4k 30p UHD vs. R6 "standard" 4k 30p UHD.



Tony compared them in his video. R6 is naturally better than Non-HQ 4k R5.


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## Kit. (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> I'm frustrated. I've held off on purchasing a more video capable body hoping that Canon would nail it with the R5. They've come so close. Absent the thermal issues this is an amazing camera across the board.
> 
> I don't want another brand for video. I want to be on FF Canon.


Isn't Canon yet to release its video-oriented RF body later this year?


----------



## dtaylor (Aug 3, 2020)

Kit. said:


> Can you please show me your calculations?



I just love it when someone thinks needless nitpicking will prove something. The recovery times do not improve with airflow over the sensor. Unless the laws of thermodynamics fail inside the RF mount, it's not the sensor. And I don't need "calculations" to prove it.



> No, it's precisely why it *wouldn't*.
> 
> Why do you think there are extended surface heatsinks attached to CPUs, and not just fans directly blowing to CPU surfaces?



What does this have to do with your original analogy, or with the statement: 'If it was the sensor overheating blowing air on it with the shutter open would have reduced recovery times."?



> What does it have to do with your theory that it's "DIGIC processor was [not] properly heat piped"?



It was in reply to your belief that if the R5 shed heat more quickly you would need gloves to handle it.


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## twoheadedboy (Aug 3, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> When you start the camera into standby mode the clock begins to tick and you lose the full potential of estimated time provided by Canon and other testers before overheating. Might not get a full 20 minutes if you've been composing a shot and etc for a few minutes with the camera on standby as one would - White balance, exposing, and so on. Cool down should be about the same after a overheat shutdown no matter how you got there.



I get that theoretically this is possible. But has anyone demonstrated it? I've seen others indicate having their camera in standby mode and shooting and NOT having a reduced ability to shoot their first HQ video, with the caveat that their recovery times were worse than advertised. I'm not here to defend Canon, I'm wanting to be very specific/precise about what the issue is. I have seen enough to agree that recovery time is very poor once you hit the wall, but not (yet) that capabilities before you hit the wall are super-variable aside from the normal ambient temperature concerns that impact all cameras to some extent or another. A post above seems to provide more positive examples that standby/photos do NOT qualitatively impact initial HQ video shoot time...in other words, if I left my camera on for an hour in 80 degree sun or shot 1,000 photos before wanting to shoot my 1st 8k video, and I get 19 minutes instead of 20, then that's reasonable (in my mind). But if I shoot 10 photos and all of sudden only shoot 10 minutes instead of 20 for my 1st 8k video, that's a huge problem.


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## twoheadedboy (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> Tony compared them in his video. R6 is naturally better than Non-HQ 4k R5.



He said that (what I was responding to in the first place) but I would like to see examples is what I'm saying. I don't doubt it but I'd like to see what the difference actually is.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

twoheadedboy said:


> I get that theoretically this is possible. But has anyone demonstrated it? I've seen others indicate having their camera in standby mode and shooting and NOT having a reduced ability to shoot their first HQ video, with the caveat that their recovery times were worse than advertised. I'm not here to defend Canon, I'm wanting to be very specific/precise about what the issue is. I have seen enough to agree that recovery time is very poor once you hit the wall, but not (yet) that capabilities before you hit the wall are super-variable aside from the normal ambient temperature concerns that impact all cameras to some extent or another. A post above seems to provide more positive examples that standby/photos do NOT qualitatively impact initial HQ video shoot time...in other words, if I left my camera on for an hour in 80 degree sun or shot 1,000 photos before wanting to shoot my 1st 8k video, and I get 19 minutes instead of 20, then that's reasonable (in my mind). But if I shoot 10 photos and all of sudden only shoot 10 minutes instead of 20 for my 1st 8k video, that's a huge problem.


Canon says so in the video I sent that your estimated time is shortened while in standby mode. To what degree? I don't know. You definitely won't be able to shoot photos for an hour then get any 8k or 4kHQ, especially while outside, at least with how the camera currently is. I'd recommend watching some more reviews from those your gut can trust. I know some might have bias against him here, but Gerald Undone is uploading his review of the R5 either today or tomorrow and I am sure he goes into detail about this very scenario.


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## davidhfe (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> You left out Z6, A73, S1...probably forgetting something else. Do they have all the modes of the R5? Nope. Do they recover faster after shooting over sampled 4k? They certainly appear to, though DPReview's testing looks better than some of the other reports on the R5/R6.



Personally, I don't consider a 24mp body to be in the same class, so I'd put all those cameras along the A7SIII, though there's a big difference between 12 and 24 mp. I admit I am assuming the S1R bins or skips and have not researched that. It's also limited to 8 bit 420 internal and external?

A 12-24mp sensor requires doing ~half the information processing as a 36-61 mp sensor, and therefore generates half the heat. I have no doubt future models will bump that up but today it's not a flat comparison if evaluating the camera as a hybrid. If you're more video focused, those cameras will probably give you better results than the R5, and 24mp is a better compromise between video and stills.

So you're left with a camera that's on the low end of 4K quality, when shooting continuously, but on par with other high MP bodies. This makes sense; lots of people avoid the Z7/A7R4 if they're video heavy, preferring more capable or cheaper bodies with less capability around stills shooting.


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## twoheadedboy (Aug 3, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Canon says so in the video I sent that your estimated time is shortened while in standby mode. To what degree? I don't know. You definitely won't be able to shoot photos for an hour then get any 8k or 4kHQ, especially while outside, at least with how the camera currently is. I'd recommend watching some more reviews from those your gut can trust. I know some might have bias against him here, but Gerald Undone is uploading his review of the R5 either today or tomorrow and I am sure he goes into detail about this very scenario.



She didn't say that. I watched the video you provided. She said the temperature goes up - she did not say the shooting time of the 1st video goes down. The two COULD be, but aren't necessarily linked. It's clear "mixed use" + standby impacts recovery time after the 1st video negatively.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

twoheadedboy said:


> She didn't say that. I watched the video you provided. She said the temperature goes up - she did not say the shooting time of the 1st video goes down. The two COULD be, but aren't necessarily linked. It's clear "mixed use" + standby impacts recovery time after the 1st video negatively.


I think we’re coming to different conclusions. I’m gonna stick with mine: You lose record time on 8K & 4KHQ the longer you’re in standby or doing anything else, including taking photos.


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## Kit. (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> I just love it when someone thinks needless nitpicking will prove something. The recovery times do not improve with airflow over the sensor. Unless the laws of thermodynamics fail inside the RF mount, it's not the sensor. And I don't need "calculations" to prove it.


You do, and that's not "nitpicking". If you want to be sure that the laws of thermodynamics are on your side, you need to do some estimations. In numbers.

A good start would be to comparing the power the recording camera consumes with the heat flow you are going to manage to sustain while blowing room temperature air onto a small area of flat surface poorly conducting heat.



dtaylor said:


> What does this have to do with your original analogy, or with the statement: 'If it was the sensor overheating blowing air on it with the shutter open would have reduced recovery times."?


You seem to believe that flatness of the surface will help. It won't.



dtaylor said:


> It was in reply to your belief that if the R5 shed heat more quickly you would need gloves to handle it.


And what do these cameras to do with how to shed heat more quickly _on R5_?

R5 is just a camera that _generates more_ heat than them. That's it. Don't pretend to be surprised about it; you have clearly seen its specs.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 3, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> On the video side: absolutely. On the stills side: my main body is a 5Ds and while the R5 sensor improves upon some aspects of IQ, overall it wouldn't make a difference in my prints. (The DR would make life easier, but not change the quality of my work because I shoot/blend two frames where needed.)
> 
> That's not a knock against the R5 on stills. From the samples I've seen they are *gorgeous*. They have the crisp, fine detail that's characteristic of high resolution 35mm and mid resolution MF. If you're a stills only shooter the R5 is a big upgrade from, say, a 5D3, just on sensor IQ alone. Now add IBIS, 12fps, advanced AF, etc.
> 
> ...


Don't think you're alone in waiting and being frustrated. We all have our wishes and disappointments - for me it was how close the 1DX2 came minus what I wanted, which was more MPs but that's not what others wanted who influenced Canon. I've really enjoyed the 1DX2 but there was always the nagging, "if only I could crop just a little more without so much loss in resolution. Then I give my head a shake cause I'm only an enthusiast who is so lucky/privileged to be using such marvellous equipment. To me the R5 is indeed marvellous!

Jack


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## twoheadedboy (Aug 3, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> I think we’re coming to different conclusions. I’m gonna stick with mine: You lose record time on 8K & 4KHQ the longer you’re in standby or doing anything else, including taking photos.



Your conclusion isn't supported by your evidence. It is a reasonable expectation, but not one I've seen proven out i.e. demonstrated in the wild. You are overstating the proof or the conclusions one can draw from your source and inventing quotes by people to back it up.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 3, 2020)

twoheadedboy said:


> Your conclusion isn't supported by your evidence. It is a reasonable expectation, but not one I've seen proven out i.e. demonstrated in the wild. You are overstating the proof or the conclusions one can draw from your source and inventing quotes by people to back it up.


Bro lol I’m actually not. Like I don’t know what’s so hard to understand about what Mehdia was instructing in the ProAV TV video?? 

“ Even if the camera is sitting down, standby, not recording... the temperature is still increasing... If you’re going through the menus, adjusting things, playing back videos, stills, the camera’s temperature is going up... The minute you start recording you will get a record time“ 

Mehdia is saying the estimated record time is effected by all these things. I’ve also seen examples from “the wild.” They’re out there. This is real. You’re gonna have to deal with it now or later.


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## davidhfe (Aug 3, 2020)

Kit. said:


> Can you please show me your calculations?



I actually got bored and ran some back of the envelope math. I think the coupling is fine and it's just the body hitting it's thermal capacity in the HFR/HQ modes. But, I'm not an engineer and I'm not sure the math adds anything to this conversation. Also I'm always a bit skeptical when my math confirms my priors


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## Go Wild (Aug 3, 2020)

Jack Douglas said:


> Well, you better stop being happy and absorb all the critical information presented in this thread. How can you possibly be happy! Must have extremely low expectations!!
> 
> Jack



Not quite Jack!  My expectations were high and camera is being Up to it! Ohhh and it didn´t overheated yet!!   

Secret is: Buy what you need and know what you buy! I don´t expect more than camera can give. I don´t live of charts or youtubers reviews. I live in the real world. And in my world (at least for now) I am really happy with this camera!!


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## Viggo (Aug 3, 2020)

You know when people say “a new camera won’t make your pictures any better” yeah, the R5 craps on that statement. The shots people are sharing from the R5 here are some of the very, very best I’ve seen here on CR, and I’ve been here for, well, at least a decade


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## bokehmon22 (Aug 3, 2020)

SteveC said:


> Geez, not five minutes ago I complained about this, and here it is again.
> 
> 45MP, 12 fps...do you suppose the ability to do that might be a consequence of developing that video feature you don't want to have to pay for?
> 
> Were it not for the 8K video feature, this wouldn't be nearly as awesome a camera for stills as it already is. Yeah, you're paying for that, with the SAME money you're paying for the phenomenal stills capability.



I don't need the top of the line video specs or 45 mpx sensor.

You don't think there is a surcharge of adding and implementing 8K to R5? I'd rather have the camera cheaper with 4k and 30 mpx like EOS R. If Canon developing such a camera, it wouldn't be as expensive as R5.

It's a great still camera but I'm sure there plenty of people who are happy with something between R5 and R6 with more mpx and no need for 8K while being more affordable.


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## Viggo (Aug 3, 2020)

bokehmon22 said:


> I don't need the top of the line video specs or 45 mpx sensor.
> 
> You don't think there is a surcharge of adding and implementing 8K to R5? I'd rather have the camera cheaper with 4k and 30 mpx like EOS R. If Canon developing such a camera, it wouldn't be as expensive as R5.
> 
> It's a great still camera but I'm sure there plenty of people who are happy with something between R5 and R6 with more mpx and no need for 8K while being more affordable.


They did, it’s called the R6.


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## twoheadedboy (Aug 3, 2020)

Viggo said:


> They did, it’s called the R6.



More specifically - 

If you don't need 8k or 45 MP - get the R6
If you do need more MP than that - get the R

While it's true you lose out on IBIS and 2 card slots, you could also get 2 R's for the same price as 1 R5 and mount 1 wide/normal and the other normal/short tele, which you cannot do with 1 camera with 2 card slots. IBIS isn't terribly crucial if you are already using stabilized lenses, and may not be that important even if you aren't (if shooting big aperture, in daylight, with flash, on a tripod, etc.)


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## Jack Douglas (Aug 3, 2020)

Viggo said:


> You know when people say “a new camera won’t make your pictures any better” yeah, the R5 craps on that statement. The shots people are sharing from the R5 here are some of the very, very best I’ve seen here on CR, and I’ve been here for, well, at least a decade


People weren't considering what animal AF could do for someone like me ... or Artie!  Wonder when all of Artie's gear will be up for sale?

Jack


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## SteveC (Aug 3, 2020)

bokehmon22 said:


> I'd rather have the camera cheaper with 4k and 30 mpx like EOS R. If Canon developing such a camera, it wouldn't be as expensive as R5.



Now, that, specifically, is a more valid line of thought than what I thought I saw previously. Sure, a 30-35 mpx camera would be cheaper than a 45 mpx camera (and it would be incapable of 8K no matter what, as 8K requires ~8000 pixels horizontally).

But that being the case, your gripe is with the sensor size. (And I can understand that; I'd have preferred something in that "size" myself. The R6 is too big a step down, though, so I stuck with the R5.)

But I would not expect THAT camera to not come with video modes either, even if it existed; it would probably come with all sorts of fancy 4K modes in it, including 120p (which I can't even access on my R5, apparently because I don't have a CFexpress card). So would you be griping about how this hypothetical camera has a bunch of video modes that are costing you money? If so, such a gripe would be flatly mistaken, as a lot of the high speed features _again _ would have been made possible by the video development, and the video people buying the camera would drive the per-unit cost (to Canon) down. Like it or not the video people are subsidizing us.


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## SteveC (Aug 3, 2020)

Jack Douglas said:


> People weren't considering what animal AF could do for someone like me ... or Artie!  Wonder when all of Artie's gear will be up for sale?
> 
> Jack



I have no doubt I will get some awesome pictures when I finally do have a chance to photograph something that moves more quickly than rocks.


----------



## David_E (Aug 4, 2020)

BeenThere said:


> OK, OK. I am speaking of U.S. market.


Perhaps more gullible to the 4K and 8k scams? Analogous to the wine myth and the old stereo myth. Wanna bet on a blind viewing _at normal viewing distance_?


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 4, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> A 12-24mp sensor requires doing ~half the information processing as a 36-61 mp sensor, and therefore generates half the heat. I have no doubt future models will bump that up but today it's not a flat comparison if evaluating the camera as a hybrid. If you're more video focused, those cameras will probably give you better results than the R5, and 24mp is a better compromise between video and stills.


That's (half the processing) true if they're downsampling from the whole sensor, but if they're not (e.g. R5 crop), then I'm not sure it still holds....

Also, I've not seen anything that equates twice the amount of data to twice the amount of heat - it depends on how you process the data (line skip, downsample etc). What I don't know is the relative impact of the downsample vs encode. The 24HQ encode times seem to infer the HQ has significant processing.

But overall, if that were the case, then the would that not mean the R6 should have longer recording times before it overheats compared to the R5?


----------



## kimster (Aug 4, 2020)

Great review by Gordon Laing on youtube today


----------



## nemophoto (Aug 4, 2020)

It's still a great stills camera. And that is what I want. I really don't care about video especially, except to do some FHD video clips for clients on shoots periodically (And I still have my R for that). I'm a still photographer first and foremost so it fits the bill for that. I sold my 1Dx. I'll retire my 5Ds to backup when I eventually get this.


----------



## nemophoto (Aug 4, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> I care about video.


Yes. And that's why you would want to use a Canon Cinema camera, not a still camera that shoots video.


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 4, 2020)

nemophoto said:


> Yes. And that's why you would want to use a Canon Cinema camera, not a still camera that shoots video.


I do. Canon got my interest up when they said: " Canon revolutionized the video industry with the introduction of the EOS 5D Mark II which provided solutions for what was previously seen as improbable - the EOS R5 will again push the boundaries of what filmmakers can do compared to current DSLR and Mirrorless cameras. With Internal, uncropped 8K video shooting at up to 29.97fps, and 4K video shooting at up to 119.9fps, in 4:2:2 10-bit (H.265) Canon Log, and Dual Pixel CMOS AF available in all 8K and 4K modes, image makers worldwide will be able to tell their stories in larger-than-life resolutions. Additional new features include: Internally recorded and uncropped 8K RAW Recording up to 29.97 fps with Dual Pixel CMOS AF, and HDR-PQ Recording (H.265) capability. "


----------



## davidhfe (Aug 4, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> That's (half the processing) true if they're downsampling from the whole sensor, but if they're not (e.g. R5 crop), then I'm not sure it still holds....
> 
> Also, I've not seen anything that equates twice the amount of data to twice the amount of heat - it depends on how you process the data (line skip, downsample etc). What I don't know is the relative impact of the downsample vs encode. The 24HQ encode times seem to infer the HQ has significant processing.
> 
> But overall, if that were the case, then the would that not mean the R6 should have longer recording times before it overheats compared to the R5?



I was speaking more to the thermals from just the sensor, you are processing twice the information off the sensor, and that's going to have a heat implication. I don't know what the real multiplier is but you can't process information for "free". I have no idea what the heat implications of the downsampling are either, but they're non-zero as well. And if you're encoding a 4K video stream, the source of those pixels doesn't really matter so that's a bit of a constant.

But really, the only point I was trying to make here is that you *can't look at a 12 or 24 mp sensor and use it as a proof point for what "is possible" in a 45 or 61 mp body*. Nor do you need to—the evidence is right in front of us in terms of the spec sheets of a dozen cameras! Anything FF with a high MP count has either a) active cooling or b) limited full read modes. We thought Canon had it cracked, we were wrong, and need to wait another cycle. I will say this though—Canon has come closer than literally any other body on the market today.

As to the R6, it's got a pretty different body composition and I'd guess the plastic is less effective than the metal R5 body at dissipating the heat.


----------



## Stu_bert (Aug 4, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> I was speaking more to the thermals from just the sensor, you are processing twice the information off the sensor, and that's going to have a heat implication. I don't know what the real multiplier is but you can't process information for "free". I have no idea what the heat implications of the downsampling are either, but they're non-zero as well. And if you're encoding a 4K video stream, the source of those pixels doesn't really matter so that's a bit of a constant.
> 
> But really, the only point I was trying to make here is that you *can't look at a 12 or 24 mp sensor and use it as a proof point for what "is possible" in a 45 or 61 mp body*. Nor do you need to—the evidence is right in front of us in terms of the spec sheets of a dozen cameras! Anything FF with a high MP count has either a) active cooling or b) limited full read modes. We thought Canon had it cracked, we were wrong, and need to wait another cycle. I will say this though—Canon has come closer than literally any other body on the market today.
> 
> As to the R6, it's got a pretty different body composition and I'd guess the plastic is less effective than the metal R5 body at dissipating the heat.


I agree with the sentiments, I just worry a bit when simple maths is used - as you rightly say it is more complex. Yes the R6 doesn’t have the same weather sealing and whether it is down to the body composition I don’t know. It should be generating less heat but until someone puts a couple of sensors inside then I’m not sure how we can get a better understanding.

Agree they have got close - close enough for some, not for others. I think if gone for more modes only over HDMI that may have improved matters for some, but the heat dissipation time trade-off is the one which is causing the most issue. It would be great if they could design a vent which is sealed in normal operation but you can open it if conditions allow and it allows the cool down to proceed quicker. Whether it is an hour or two hours, that seems to cause the most issues which I understand if I was doing that sort of work.


----------



## David - Sydney (Aug 4, 2020)

my feedback after 3 days with the R5 coming from a 5Div:
- Eye AF is simple and amazing. ISO12800 @5m @20mm focal length was perfect on a EF16-35mm f4 lens! SOOC had well controlled noise
- Focus bracketing a breeze but too easy for a huge stack that my PC/photoshop had issues 
- Just a breeze with the RF 70-200mm lens. With IBIS I think that the tripod mount won't be used too often and light enough that mounting a tripod on the body is sufficient
- Flippy screen use even for my daughter (iPhone style shooting at arm's length) + selfies + canon app for transferring files is the number #1 benefit from their perspective
- half a battery usage for a day's macro shooting of about 700 shots. Again, love the flippy screen!
- Adobe .cr3->dng works fine but am looking forward to ACR support in Lightroom
- Sold the custom R5 strap! Lovely but it wouldn't see any love from me.
- Control ring R mount adaptor is sold out across Australia

Has anyone had any issues with minimum focusing distance with the EF100mm L? It seemed that is wouldn't focus close to 1:1


----------



## Chris.Chapterten (Aug 4, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> my feedback after 3 days with the R5 coming from a 5Div:
> - Eye AF is simple and amazing. ISO12800 @5m @20mm focal length was perfect on a EF16-35mm f4 lens! SOOC had well controlled noise
> - Focus bracketing a breeze but too easy for a huge stack that my PC/photoshop had issues
> - Just a breeze with the RF 70-200mm lens. With IBIS I think that the tripod mount won't be used too often and light enough that mounting a tripod on the body is sufficient
> ...


Thanks, great to hear about battery life


----------



## Thcwub (Aug 4, 2020)

Kit. said:


> _How_ much?
> 
> Can you please show me a cheaper camera with similar specs and ergonomics for wildlife photography?
> 
> (Just checked my Adobe Lightroom library for 5D2. The ratio of short video clips to photos was 1:5000. I could as well go without any video functionality in my stills camera, if, at you are saying, it would be cheaper)


It's not something I plan on justifying further, but with any technology you are paying for the sum of the parts, plus manufacturing plus overhead etc sure. We accept the costs of a physical product to be physically delivered. But in a very big way you are paying for the massive R&D investment in developing the new technology or improving it etc. This is why new tech costs a fortune when it is released and slowly prices equalise over time. The R5 stands at such a massive cost because there is some massive R&D that has gone into creating a camera with such advanced specs. You arent paying the big premium because there isnt any competition that can do the same thing, you are paying the big premium because in order to release a product no one else can compete with costs a lot in terms of R&D. It is the same rationale that Peak Design, for example, proudly uses to justify the price points of its inventory; development of quality and new initiatives costs money.

If the R5 had not been developed yet, and Canon set out to develop the R5 as a stills exclusive camera, there would be significantly less R&D and the end result would indeed be cheaper on the whole to produce, versus developing the same product to also accommodate video functionality. Sure, there will be some overlap so there is some diminishing returns in this consideration, but the point still stands well enough.

I was sure I recalled a report on this website somewhere in the last 18months where Canon had actually explained how being market leaders in innovation was costing them ridiculous amounts of money and that they were pulling back on R&D in the camera-space, while they focused on other markets (like printers and medical imaging). My understanding at the time was that Canon were happy not being first to the table with leaps forward in technology and instead were more interested in providing market leadership via excellence. The R5 seems to fly in the face of all of that, and stands as a good example of why Canon likely made those comments back when they did.


----------



## Kit. (Aug 4, 2020)

Thcwub said:


> If the R5 had not been developed yet, and Canon set out to develop the R5 as a stills exclusive camera, there would be significantly less R&D and the end result would indeed be cheaper on the whole to produce, versus developing the same product to also accommodate video functionality. Sure, there will be some overlap so there is some diminishing returns in this consideration, but the point still stands well enough.


R&D for developing H.265 video support on DIGIC X could indeed be "massive"... but has already been done for 1DX III.

Adapting the results to the R5 body in particular? 10 man-months maximum from the engineering point of view, with all that thermal testing. OK, let's make it 30 to account for the bureaucratic overhead.

How many extra R5s do you think Canon will sell _just because_ it has its video specs?


----------



## Thcwub (Aug 4, 2020)

Kit. said:


> How many extra R5s do you think Canon will sell _just because_ it has its video specs?


I'd wager Canon thinks a good portion of their sales will be because it has its video specs; otherwise why gamble it? If the 8k jump into future-proofing wasnt considered a significant enough reason to release with it included, in the face of the issues it is presenting, then they wouldn't have done so. If the camera was running industry standard video specs, for the same price it would be insanity and so they need the specs to justify the price. If they released the camera with industry standard video specs for a lesser price then no one would have bat an eyelid; it would simply be an absolutely amazing stills camera with industry standard video. Canon chose to dedicate resources to pushing the tech further than anyone else has, they chose to gamble on that, and now they're charging early adopters the cost of that irrespective of whether you'll use the video specs or not.

Don't forget Canon is pitching this as a " Professional full-frame mirrorless camera with ground-breaking features. Game on!" (their website). If those ground-breaking features are not up to production-value professional standards then you're paying out the a$$ for features that Canon failed to deliver on and want you to pay for the R&D for. I for one wont be dropping AU$7000 for a stills only camera, and will reluctantly wait for the tech to trickle down into some more reasonably priced models. Good luck to anyone paying an arm and a leg to be an early adopter of broken implementationof 'game changing' video specs. The stills capabilities do not alone warrant the price.


----------



## padam (Aug 4, 2020)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> The 4K HQ footage does look amazing. Much better than the standard 4K. I would really like to see how the 1.6x crop oversampled 4K footage compares to the HQ mode. I would rather deal with the crop and keep a higher quality personally.


As expected, the crop mode is also sharp.


----------



## Chris.Chapterten (Aug 4, 2020)

padam said:


> As expected, the crop mode is also sharp.


Great to see! Maybe we can start stressing less about overheating now that a sharp, high quality mode is available with no heat restrictions. Use this mode if you're shooting a documentary or interview etc.


----------



## Kit. (Aug 4, 2020)

Thcwub said:


> I'd wager Canon thinks a good portion of their sales will be because it has its video specs; otherwise why gamble it?


So that makes this camera _cheaper_ for us stills shooters, as the relatively small work of enabling the already existing video functionality of DIGIC X lets Canon spread the cost of R&D for this camera onto a bigger pool of paying customers.



Thcwub said:


> Don't forget Canon is pitching this as a " Professional full-frame mirrorless camera with ground-breaking features. Game on!" (their website). If those ground-breaking features are not up to production-value professional standards then you're paying out the a$$ for features that Canon failed to deliver on and want you to pay for the R&D for. I for one wont be dropping AU$7000 for a stills only camera,


I will. I don't see a better value on the market for what it does for the wide range of wildlife shooters. Do you?



Thcwub said:


> and will reluctantly wait for the tech to trickle down into some more reasonably priced models.


Yeah, in 4 years from now this camera will be bargain-priced. Like 5D IV right now.


----------



## Viggo (Aug 4, 2020)

Pixel peeping video filming static subjects too me as useful as testing headsets with white noise.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 4, 2020)

Viggo said:


> Pixel peeping video filming static subjects too me as useful as testing headsets with white noise.
> [/Q
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 4, 2020)

Viggo said:


> Pixel peeping video filming static subjects too me as useful as testing headsets with white noise.


When I use it for frame grabs I suspect I'll be pixel peeping, so this seems pretty interesting.

Jack


----------



## bandido (Aug 4, 2020)

masterpix said:


> Still waiting to hear if Canon will duplicate the R5 into 5Dmark5 (with OVF).


There have been rumors (from this site) that Canon doesn't have any plans to further develop the EOS 5d line. So there won't be a 5d Mark V. I hope they are wrong.


----------



## Viggo (Aug 4, 2020)

Jack Douglas said:


> When I use it for frame grabs I suspect I'll be pixel peeping, so this seems pretty interesting.
> 
> Jack


If I were to use video for framegrabs I would just use 8K and we know that’s good


----------



## cornieleous (Aug 4, 2020)

bandido said:


> There have been rumors (from this site) that Canon doesn't have any plans to further develop the EOS 5d line. So there won't be a 5d Mark V. I hope they are wrong.



This camera (R5) sure seems like the 5D5, and seems it has been stated that there will not be a DSLR version of it by Canon. They said via allegedly reliable sources there may be some other camera for that audience. Could be the 5DsR gets an update. I'd probably buy that and either keep the R5 or sell it. The EVF has a ton of benefits and looks better than any EVF I have ever tried, but I still like an OVF and larger body. Mirrorless is in some ways over rated. At the least the bodies should be larger.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 4, 2020)

Viggo said:


> If I were to use video for framegrabs I would just use 8K and we know that’s good


Perhaps, but 4K120 will get more of the action. I've already seen the significant difference between 4K 30 and 60 with the 1DX2 shooting the Quetzal (bird) in Costa Rica. Unfortunately, with that camera, the AF was not nearly fast enough.

Jack


----------



## rbielefeld (Aug 4, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> my feedback after 3 days with the R5 coming from a 5Div:
> - Eye AF is simple and amazing. ISO12800 @5m @20mm focal length was perfect on a EF16-35mm f4 lens! SOOC had well controlled noise
> - Focus bracketing a breeze but too easy for a huge stack that my PC/photoshop had issues
> - Just a breeze with the RF 70-200mm lens. With IBIS I think that the tripod mount won't be used too often and light enough that mounting a tripod on the body is sufficient
> ...


Sounds like the R5 is working well for you. Just to add to the battery life data as a lot of folks seem to be worried about poor battery life in the R5. I have shot the camera for 3 days now and I have shot a couple of 5 hour sessions in Florida's heat and humidity and I have gotten well over 2000 clicks each session (birds in flight so a lot of burst shooting) and my batteries had only dropped one dot on the battery meter. I am using the grip and I am shooting as I normally would, so not trying to conserve battery in any way. IMO it uses less battery than my a9II with a grip. So, I at this point have no worries about battery life. Just FYI.


----------



## kimster (Aug 4, 2020)

This morning I had just 15 minutes with my R5, EF 100-400 and adaptor. It was typical California coastal "June gloom".
I am over the moon with my pictures and I will upload one or two when I get them off the camera.
Auto ISO at 1/1600 or 1/2000 and F8 or F7.1 worked out at 500 or 640 ISO.
Animal tracking worked perfectly and the pictures are SO Much better than anything I could take with my 5DIV.
I am keeping my r5 and can't wait to save up for RF 100-500.
Fear not dear friends, if you want a great stills camera, look no further.


----------



## geffy (Aug 5, 2020)

Finally an 800mm review by fro no less, though he has to learn about teleconverters and bokeh


----------



## Jack Douglas (Aug 5, 2020)

geffy said:


> Finally an 800mm review by fro no less, though he has to learn about teleconverters and bokeh


Obviously a review for beginners. These lenses are going to sell based on weight, size and price to a lot of people who don't mind the compromises because the IQ is very decent. Canon will hook beginners and then sell more expensive lenses as they progress - great move.

Jack


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 5, 2020)

Jack Douglas said:


> Obviously a review for beginners. These lenses are going to sell based on weight, size and price to a lot of people who don't mind the compromises because the IQ is very decent. Canon will hook beginners and then sell more expensive lenses as they progress - great move.
> 
> Jack


sound like a plan to me


----------



## geffy (Aug 8, 2020)

Jack Douglas said:


> Obviously a review for beginners. These lenses are going to sell based on weight, size and price to a lot of people who don't mind the compromises because the IQ is very decent. Canon will hook beginners and then sell more expensive lenses as they progress - great move.
> 
> Jack


sold me one, portability, the best lens is the one you have on you, my 600 never leaves the house


----------



## SteveC (Aug 8, 2020)

geffy said:


> sold me one, portability, the best lens is the one you have on you, my 600 never leaves the house



Why? Is your forklift broken?


----------



## geffy (Aug 8, 2020)

SteveC said:


> Why? Is your forklift broken?


my shoulders went, thought it was a stroke, ill pass on pushing my luck


----------



## geffy (Aug 8, 2020)

now the northrup review of probably the only kit i will be buying this year, i have enough


----------



## Michael Clark (Aug 9, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Correction: They built a stills camera with great AF that overheats while taking stills making the “cutting edge” 8k and HQ modes unusable in “hybrid” scenarios. They marketed the 8K30 and 4K120 as if it were actually usable. They only released the overheat times after we questioned them days after preorders started. Stop making excuses for a shady PR team. There is nothing cutting edge having to wait 2 hours for 20 minutes of record time (if you’re not taking stills).



Canon revealed the heat limitations at the same time they announced the camera on July 9. That's the same time Canon dealers were officially allowed to take preorders. It wasn't "days after".


----------



## Michael Clark (Aug 9, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> I mean publicizing the specs alone and leading with that on every ad is pretty misleading.
> 
> From Canon’s page: “Canon revolutionized the video industry with the introduction of the EOS 5D Mark II which provided solutions for what was previously seen as improbable - the EOS R5 will again push the boundaries of what filmmakers can do compared to current DSLR and Mirrorless cameras. With Internal, uncropped 8K video shooting at up to 29.97fps, and 4K video shooting at up to 119.9fps, in 4:2:2 10-bit (H.265) Canon Log, and Dual Pixel CMOS AF available in all 8K and 4K modes, image makers worldwide will be able to tell their stories in larger-than-life resolutions. Additional new features include: Internally recorded and uncropped 8K RAW Recording up to 29.97 fps with Dual Pixel CMOS AF, and HDR-PQ Recording (H.265) capability.”
> 
> ...



What Ads would that be? Where did you see advertisements for the R5 and R6 before July 9, 2020?

You're confusing third party YouTube videos and third party rumor site posts with official Canon communications.

At least here in the U.S., every press release about the "in development" R5 gave information about the stills capabilities before mentioning the video capabilities. It's not Canon's fault the YouTube idiots ignored all of that and couldn't stop wetting their pants over an 8K capable stills camera for less than a five figure price.


----------



## Michael Clark (Aug 9, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> There gets to a point where advertising can become insulting to the consumer, gullible or not. Canon withholding the time limitations until after Pre-order day and not even being on their website is dishonest. That’s my opinion. I’m glad Peter was able to say something in his review for it.
> 
> Let me sell you a sports car.
> 
> ...



You keep saying Canon withheld the time limitation until after pre-order day.

*You are being blatantly dishonest! *

They revealed the limitations in the live online announcement event the morning of July 9. They allowed Canon Explorers of Light who had access to pre-production copies of the cameras to release their reviews, knowing that those reviews included information about recording limits due to heating. No one bought and paid for an R5 before this information was available.


----------



## Michael Clark (Aug 9, 2020)

scyrene said:


> The way you worded your original comment made it sound like you bought RF lenses in the hope that the next R body would meet your needs precisely, my mistake I guess?



He was doing false advertising. That's the impression I got also.

How dare he be so blatantly deceptive?


----------



## Michael Clark (Aug 9, 2020)

dtaylor said:


> If the sensor was overheating airflow over the sensor would quickly bring it back down to usable temps. Fans on the sensor after a HQ take do not work, so it's not the sensor.
> 
> If it was the battery, card, or card writer interface then swapping those out would immediately restore some recording time. Swapping them out does nothing.
> 
> ...



How's that theory holding up?






Canon R5 Records 4KHQ 30fps Externally for 4 HOURS


Been detailing this in the Canon Rumors discord. But I've found that if there are no cards in the camera, you get 4 hours of external recording before "overheating". I use quotes here because after overheating and shutting down, a quick 5 min rest allowed me to shoot that last 20min segment in...




www.canonrumors.com


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 9, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> What Ads would that be? Where did you see advertisements for the R5 and R6 before July 9, 2020?
> 
> You're confusing third party YouTube videos and third party rumor site posts with official Canon communications.
> 
> At least here in the U.S., every press release about the "in development" R5 gave information about the stills capabilities before mentioning the video capabilities. It's not Canon's fault the YouTube idiots ignored all of that and couldn't stop wetting their pants over an 8K capable stills camera for less than a five figure price.


Hey Michael. I see I’ve been living in your head rent free for the last hour. Thanks! Also, you’re wrong. I’m referring to Canon’s official announcement, directly. Very poor marketing strategy.


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 9, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Canon revealed the heat limitations at the same time they announced the camera on July 9. That's the same time Canon dealers were officially allowed to take preorders. It wasn't "days after".


Can you link it with the time stamp please?


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 9, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> He was doing false advertising. That's the impression I got also.
> 
> How dare he be so blatantly deceptive?


Now this is just pathetic, Michael. Please, have some self respect.


----------



## SecureGSM (Aug 9, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Can you link it with the time stamp please?



9 July 2020
footnotes, #26:
xxvi Video recording size is 8K 30p movies with full Dual Pixel CMOS AF II autofocus and no crop. The video recording time of the Canon EOS R5 and Canon EOS R6 is are limited by heat.









Canon EOS R5 and EOS R6: unrivalled performance, endless creativity – Game On!


Canon Australia today unveiled the Canon EOS R5 and Canon EOS R6, two revolutionary full frame mirrorless camera additions to advance Canon’s EOS R System built on the RF Mount.




www.canon.com.au


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 9, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> 9 July 2020
> footnotes, #26:
> xxvi Video recording size is 8K 30p movies with full Dual Pixel CMOS AF II autofocus and no crop. The video recording time of the Canon EOS R5 and Canon EOS R6 is are limited by heat.
> 
> ...


That’s it?? LOL. Bro, I’m still standing by my comments. Very dishonest and poor marketing from Canon.


----------



## Michael Clark (Aug 9, 2020)

Mr Majestyk said:


> The trouble with the R5 you’re paying a large premium for those video features that aren’t reliable. I don’t mind the recording times as much as the glacial recovery from overheating annd even worse an hour of just stills shooting can render HQ video modes unusable as camera has already reached thermal limits. The body design is very poor in that it has woeful thermal conductivity properties and traps heat for up to 2 hours. They really do need to make a physical change rather than just rely on fw hacks. It’s a bit rich for people to now claim it’s not a video camera, when it was Canon that was pushing 8K as the headline act. Also the 4K line skipped video is poor quality and the H.265 codec I’ve heard is a nightmare to try and work with in editing. I’m sure fw will address some issues but the poor thermals are intrinsic to their body design and choice of materials. I really want to get the R5 but will dealy that purchase for at least 6 months and hope by Q1 next year soemthingnhas been done.



How is $3,899 USD a large premium when previous 5-series cameras introduced in 2012 and 2016 were both $3,499 at introduction and did not have anything approaching the stills, not to mention video capabilities, of the R5?

Adjusted for inflation, $3,499 in 2012 is $3,928 in 2020 according to https://www.usinflationcalculator.com/


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 9, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> A few comments
> 
> The Atomos Ninja V can support 4k 120 at 4:2:2 with one Sony camera. Based on Wikipedia HDMI standards this would indicate it has HDMI 2.1. If it has 2.1 then it will support 8K modes (pending firmware and other possible limitations).
> 
> ...


1: Atomos themselves list the Ninja V as HDMI 2.0



2: Canon specifically state in the R5 manual _" HDMI output of 8k movies not supported."_ Page 905


----------



## Michael Clark (Aug 9, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> All true. No overheating info in the user manual but it was updated under specifications under Video Shooting a few days after Pre-order launch. Luckily there’s a back order and lots of Pre-orders haven’t been charged giving customers time to explore. Then another 30 days once the camera is in hand



The heat related time limits were mentioned in the initial introduction in Japan on July 9 (when it was still July 8 in much of the world). Please stop saying Canon did not reveal this until several days later. It's simply not true. See comment #60. It's a screenshot of a machine translated version of Canon's R5/R6 announcement in Japan.






Here are more specifications for the Canon EOS R5


If you use adapted EF glass, you have a variable ND filter adapter working with all lenses, it is the best compromise. Can't have built-in ND that can turn on or off without making the camera twice the size and remove the shutter like those cinema cameras. Those are a lot bigger and also very...




www.canonrumors.com





There's also this article from EOSHD, published on July 9, 2020.


----------



## Nelu (Aug 9, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> That’s it?? LOL. Bro, I’m still standing by my comments. Very dishonest and poor marketing from Canon.


I’m sorry but I have to agree with this.
”The video recording time of the Canon EOS R5 is limited by heat.”
That’s all they mentioned in that release article regarding heat limiting.
Pretty vague, don’t you think?


----------



## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 9, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> The heat related time limits were mentioned in the initial introduction in Japan on July 9 (when it was still July 8 in much of the world). Please stop saying Canon did not reveal this until several days later. It's simply not true. See comment #60. It's a screenshot of a machine translated version of Canon's R5/R6 announcement in Japan.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Michael, at least go through the past threads to see where others and I discussed and agreed Canon did have info in the manual after this comment you cherry picked. You're replying to an old thread - in other words: You're late to the party... Obvs just wanting some sort of attention. Move on to the next article, mate.


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## Stu_bert (Aug 10, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> 1: Atomos themselves list the Ninja V as HDMI 2.0
> View attachment 192047
> 
> 
> ...


Re Atomos Thank you for taking the effort to find that out. Guess they're still working on a 2.1 version which will be silly-expensive

Re 8K - Yeah I am puzzled still - Canon has an 8 bit 4:2:0 mode, and you can output that over HDMI 2.0 so not entirely sure why they didnt do it - unless they consider that no-one yet supports it so don't create a problem for their support desk, wait for the recorders to come, and then enable in fw.


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## Stu_bert (Aug 10, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> How's that theory holding up?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Doesn't it indicate subsampling / downsampling isn't pushing it over the heat threshold (HDMI uncompressed), but encoding / compressing / Local I/O is more intensive and pushes it over the limit....


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## Stu_bert (Aug 11, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> Re Atomos Thank you for taking the effort to find that out. Guess they're still working on a 2.1 version which will be silly-expensive
> 
> Re 8K - Yeah I am puzzled still - Canon has an 8 bit 4:2:0 mode, and you can output that over HDMI 2.0 so not entirely sure why they didnt do it - unless they consider that no-one yet supports it so don't create a problem for their support desk, wait for the recorders to come, and then enable in fw.



Rightttttttt....... Seems that the 4k120 that is supported on a Sony is in fact sent across as a 4K60p but for double the duration. I don't quite get how they've done it but ok. As you say, the Atomos Ninja V is an HDMI 2.0 device, and there is a forthcoming 8K unit for their Neon range which will have HDMI 2.1, and presumably at some stage after its launch, there may be a new Ninja 8K. But for the foreseeable, Atomos won't support 4K120 out of the Canon (unless they do a similar tweak as the Sony), nor 8K modes. Technically, wiki indicates HDMI 2.0b can do a 4k120/8k30 mode, but seems now that this isn't going to be supported by anyone

Stand corrected.... My bad...


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## HarryFilm (Aug 11, 2020)

Cat_Interceptor said:


> "There are two things that are infinite - the Universe and human stupidity. And I'm not sure about the first"




Black Holes and Hawking radiation are a pretty good real-world confirmation that energy AND information is not always conserved. Plus, I do note we have a quite a few fellow employees who actually DO have multiple Ph.D's and Post-Doctoral work in Particle and Nuclear Physics, Astronomy, Quantum Chromodynamics, plasmadynamics, etc etc. --- And since MANY of them are award winning and have numerous patents to their name, I think I will CONCUR with THEIR suppositions and statements that mass and energy are NOT always conserved and that THERE ARE TECHNOLOGIES available (i.e. they HAVE MADE THEM!) that break quite a few of the current rules of physics AND YES we do have some extremely distinguished worldwide renowned physics names on our in-house committees!

Hmmm..... I'm not sure I was supposed to disclose all that! ....  ;-)

Oh well .... I guess THEM EGGHEADS are one of the reasons why we have a dark navy blue FTL space-capable isosceles triangle sitting in a hangar at YVR .....

V


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## Cat_Interceptor (Aug 12, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> Black Holes and Hawking radiation are a pretty good real-world confirmation that energy AND information is not always conserved. Plus, I do note we have a quite a few fellow employees who actually DO have multiple Ph.D's and Post-Doctoral work in Particle and Nuclear Physics, Astronomy, Quantum Chromodynamics, plasmadynamics, etc etc. --- And since MANY of them are award winning and have numerous patents to their name, I think I will CONCUR with THEIR suppositions and statements that mass and energy are NOT always conserved and that THERE ARE TECHNOLOGIES available (i.e. they HAVE MADE THEM!) that break quite a few of the current rules of physics AND YES we do have some extremely distinguished worldwide renowned physics names on our in-house committees!
> 
> Hmmm..... I'm not sure I was supposed to disclose all that! ....  ;-)
> 
> ...



Refusing to reveal secret knowledge about super science is pretty much saying either you are knowingly trolling or just plain stupid. 

Your call on that one.


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## SteveC (Aug 12, 2020)

Cat_Interceptor said:


> Refusing to reveal secret knowledge about super science is pretty much saying either you are knowingly trolling or just plain stupid.
> 
> Your call on that one.



More like bragging about it then saying Oh I Shouldn't Have Said That Better Stop Now is trolling.

Not to mention if he were really working some sort of secret project and he slipped like that we'd never hear from him again because he'd be in the Federal Graybar Hotel.

I've never understood how some people can be so damn pathetic they feel the need to be bullshitters.


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## Michael Clark (Aug 16, 2020)

JIM JIM said:


> Michael, at least go through the past threads to see where others and I discussed and agreed Canon did have info in the manual after this comment you cherry picked. You're replying to an old thread - in other words: You're late to the party... Obvs just wanting some sort of attention. Move on to the next article, mate.



Says the user who has posted the same complaint on this thread 578 times ad nauseum...


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## SteveC (Aug 16, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Says the user who has posted the same complaint on this thread 578 times ad nauseum...



Oh, for pete's sake, get your facts straight, it has been 57*9* times.

The question I have is whether Sony is paying him for every time, or whether they keep withholding the pay saying "maybe next time" and he falls for it like Charlie Brown and the football.


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## BeenThere (Aug 16, 2020)

HarryFilm said:


> Black Holes and Hawking radiation are a pretty good real-world confirmation that energy AND information is not always conserved. Plus, I do note we have a quite a few fellow employees who actually DO have multiple Ph.D's and Post-Doctoral work in Particle and Nuclear Physics, Astronomy, Quantum Chromodynamics, plasmadynamics, etc etc. --- And since MANY of them are award winning and have numerous patents to their name, I think I will CONCUR with THEIR suppositions and statements that mass and energy are NOT always conserved and that THERE ARE TECHNOLOGIES available (i.e. they HAVE MADE THEM!) that break quite a few of the current rules of physics AND YES we do have some extremely distinguished worldwide renowned physics names on our in-house committees!
> 
> Hmmm..... I'm not sure I was supposed to disclose all that! ....  ;-)
> 
> ...


I think I saw that episode of X-Files.


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## Michael Clark (Aug 17, 2020)

Stu_bert said:


> Doesn't it indicate subsampling / downsampling isn't pushing it over the heat threshold (HDMI uncompressed), but encoding / compressing / Local I/O is more intensive and pushes it over the limit....



To me it seems to suggest that the real source of the heat issue is the memory card. CFExpress cards are basically M2 cards in a much smaller form factor. If full size motherboards need fans to cool M2 cards...


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## Michael Clark (Aug 17, 2020)

BeenThere said:


> I think I saw that episode of X-Files.



Or was it Doctor Who?


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## Jonathan Thill (Aug 17, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> To me it seems to suggest that the real source of the heat issue is the memory card. CFExpress cards are basically M2 cards in a much smaller form factor. If full size motherboards need fans to cool M2 cards...


Really good testing into the issue here https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4511691


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## Bert63 (Aug 17, 2020)

Ramage said:


> Really good testing into the issue here https://www.dpreview.com/forums/thread/4511691



I personally thought the info on overheating over at EOS HD was thorough and conclusive.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 17, 2020)

SteveC said:


> Oh, for pete's sake, get your facts straight, it has been 57*9* times.
> 
> The question I have is whether Sony is paying him for every time, or whether they keep withholding the pay saying "maybe next time" and he falls for it like Charlie Brown and the football.


Cute.


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## Deleted member 384473 (Aug 17, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Says the user who has posted the same complaint on this thread 578 times ad nauseum...


Was only replying to those replying off my initial comment. Canon has you on your knees, mate. Its perfectly fine to criticize your holy brand.


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