# Industry News: The Sony Alpha a7c leaks ahead of the official announcement



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 11, 2020)

> Sony is going to be announcing a “new concept” on September 15, and one of those products will be the Sony Alpha a7c full-frame mirrorless camera in a very compact form.
> *Sony Alpha a7c Specifications:* (incomplete)
> 
> 
> ...



Continue reading...


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## ethanz (Sep 11, 2020)

It doesn't look any smaller than their other cameras. But maybe that is just me.


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## knight427 (Sep 11, 2020)

Anything that adds pressure to reduce the R6 price tag is useful to me. This camera doesn't seem useful to me.


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## amazin (Sep 11, 2020)

I wonder how this new sony camera compare in side with the sigma fp...?


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## hachu21 (Sep 11, 2020)

ethanz said:


> It doesn't look any smaller than their other cameras. But maybe that is just me.


The m6 mkIi is 120x70x49mm
This thing is tiny for a ff!


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## Rumours not rumors (Sep 11, 2020)

If my EF lenses don't fit on it, for me it'll be as useless as a one-legged man in a bum kicking contest.
</ cue the Sony trolls arcing up >


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## Kit. (Sep 11, 2020)

Olympus Stylus 80 Wide: 120x64x49 (with lens!)

I wish we had some of our FF digital cameras as compact as our film P&S cameras used to be.


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## huscusahead (Sep 11, 2020)

The fierce competition between camera makers seems to be creating a new golden age for photography. There are so many amazing cameras out there and they each keep trying to make them better, whether they are useful for your needs or not.


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## Kit. (Sep 11, 2020)

Rumours not rumors said:


> If my EF lenses don't fit on it, for me it'll be as useless as a one-legged man in a bum kicking contest.
> </ cue the Sony trolls arcing up >


With Sigma MC-11 adapter, you might be able to use this thing as a rear lens cap for your big whites.


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## Act444 (Sep 11, 2020)

Maybe I’m alone here, but I’ve always been interested in this concept. This could be the one Sony camera that actually gets my attention...


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## Rumours not rumors (Sep 11, 2020)

Kit. said:


> With Sigma MC-11 adapter, you might be able to use this thing as a rear lens cap for your big whites.


Haha great idea and I actually proudly own an EF mount Sigma 70-100 f2.8 DG OS HSM Sports that churns out stunningly sharp images on my 90D's but I would never insult such a classy lens by attaching an Alpha to it.


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## BroderLund (Sep 11, 2020)

Would love a small RF canon FF like this as a backup/hiking body. However given the R5 and R6 I wonder how they would tackle the internal heat in an even smaller body.


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## Famateur (Sep 11, 2020)

I think it's cool that Sony is doing this -- the more ideas, concepts and competition, the better! I'm sure there will be people that will snap this up (especially for traveling).

I do find it kind of funny, though...

Internet Reviewer: "The R5/R6 feels so good in the hand -- I can finally fit all my fingers on the grip, unlike my A7RIV."
Sony: "Let's go smaller!"

On the one hand, perhaps the industry is ultimately heading to full frame sensors in tiny mirrorless packages that will eventually replace the shrinking point-and-shoot and amateur DLSR segment. On the other hand, typical full-frame lenses might quickly become unwieldy on a tiny body. Lens size would be the barrier that would need to be addressed.

It'll be interesting to see what Canon does with the EOS M line where small bodies also have small lenses. Will it compete against tiny full-frame bodies with big lenses? Will Canon retire the M line and go the same route as Sony because tiny full-frame bodies will eventually get small-enough lenses?

Fun times...




...unless you have an M and are wishing for more lenses.


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## tron (Sep 11, 2020)

BroderLund said:


> Would love a small RF canon FF like this as a backup/hiking body. However given the R5 and R6 I wonder how they would tackle the internal heat in an even smaller body.


They could make the video available at 640x480  and proceed to monstrous ... 720p in the second version of this camera 2 years later!


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## bbasiaga (Sep 11, 2020)

I just got an M50 yesterday, so for sure the FF tiny bodys start to come out! lol. Seriously love the small format for portability, but it'll never replace a regular body for me. My hands are too big and shooting with an M50 sized body all day would be painful. But for travel, light duty and around the house snapshots its great. 

Could be interesting a few years down the line. Canon is supposed to announce a smaller FF as well soon (it was rumored here). Pretty soon we'll see an iPhone with a FF sensor strapped to the back!

-Brian


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## bbasiaga (Sep 11, 2020)

BroderLund said:


> Would love a small RF canon FF like this as a backup/hiking body. However given the R5 and R6 I wonder how they would tackle the internal heat in an even smaller body.



The obvious option is No 4K HQ or 8K video - which is all that limits the R5 at this point, and also may reduce the need for the high horsepower processor. That processor probably throws off a lot of heat. Another option is no or poorer weather sealing, which can increase air exchange and cool the camera and/or allow for a heat sync of some kind built in to the body.


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## BeenThere (Sep 11, 2020)

Sounds like a good light travel camera if some suitably small lenses will be available.


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## Franklyok (Sep 11, 2020)

For this price one could buy 2 canon RP


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## stevensteven (Sep 11, 2020)

Act444 said:


> Maybe I’m alone here, but I’ve always been interested in this concept. This could be the one Sony camera that actually gets my attention...



If the video codec is not their nasty 8 bit, this could be an amazing travel camera for hybrid shooters. Tiny af, good af (the other meaning of af), 10bit422 in 4k24 full frame, and good stills.... Wow...


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## stevensteven (Sep 11, 2020)

BroderLund said:


> Would love a small RF canon FF like this as a backup/hiking body. However given the R5 and R6 I wonder how they would tackle the internal heat in an even smaller body.


 
By not offering 8K 240fps in 16 bit raw ?


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## Traveler (Sep 11, 2020)

As a travel photographer, I always try to pack lightweight but having a small camera body is too much of a compromise for me. Even the A7iii feels unconfortable in my hands. What I would appreciate are some small lenses, something like 15-35mm f/7.1, compact not-so-fast fish eye, compact 70-300 (I'm fine with f/7.1)... I use the 24-105 f/4 for 80% shots but I need to carry extra 2-3kg for those 20% of shots.


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## padam (Sep 11, 2020)

I have used Sony APS-C cameras like that and I think the grip is just too short.
The RP is a slight bit cramped compared to the R, but probably still much more easy to handle than this one.
But it is impressive that they have almost the same weight (around 500g) and yet this one still has the IBIS and a big battery in it. That's why they won't price it cheap.

Will Canon's next cheap R series camera also have these two things? Probably not, as their strategy is different.


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## amorse (Sep 11, 2020)

This looks like a really neat little camera. There is definitely a market for small body cameras and this looks like it would be the smallest full frame ILC on the market, if you can get glass small enough to take advantage of that size. If I were a Sony shooter, I'd probably be pretty interested in this as a secondary body which I could cary with little weight/size penalty. It also looks pretty inconspicuous which may be interesting for those doing street photography, or those shooting in countries where big gear collects more attention.


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## Rocksthaman (Sep 11, 2020)

bbasiaga said:


> The obvious option is No 4K HQ or 8K video - which is all that limits the R5 at this point, and also may reduce the need for the high horsepower processor. That processor probably throws off a lot of heat. Another option is no or poorer weather sealing, which can increase air exchange and cool the camera and/or allow for a heat sync of some kind built in to the body.



The 4K is HQ. It’s a down sampled 6K image. Same as A7iii. No 8k though.

H.624 may be the most important feature though until 625 is optimized.


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## Rocksthaman (Sep 11, 2020)

Traveler said:


> As a travel photographer, I always try to pack lightweight but having a small camera body is too much of a compromise for me. Even the A7iii feels unconfortable in my hands. What I would appreciate are some small lenses, something like 15-35mm f/7.1, compact not-so-fast fish eye, compact 70-300 (I'm fine with f/7.1)... I use the 24-105 f/4 for 80% shots but I need to carry extra 2-3kg for those 20% of shots.



The site does mention a line of “v” glass that is to be made for the camera. They are supposed to be compact in size.


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## highdesertmesa (Sep 11, 2020)

Finally the narrow Sony E-mount put to good use.

This thing + a few Loxia lenses will be nice.

Wonder if they will make a 36-45mp R version at some point.


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## mpb001 (Sep 11, 2020)

It looks like a good camera for hiking, but I would be leery of any weather sealing, like I do with all Sony cameras. Canon is king there.


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## i_SH (Sep 11, 2020)

Looking ahead, the A7c-type camera will take 3-5% of Canon's sales.


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## padam (Sep 11, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> Finally the narrow Sony E-mount put to good use.
> 
> This thing + a few Loxia lenses will be nice.
> 
> Wonder if they will make a 36-45mp R version at some point.


I don't think the extra 150g of weight is going to matter in that case, as opposed to better weather resistance. If anything, it will make the balance worse with most lenses.

This is more catered for people looking for the smallest FF camera with IBIS or vloggers, where that weight combined with the wider field of view for the same focal length does make a difference.
I can see the FE 20mm f/1.8 G being a great match, or one of the Sony Zeiss f/4 zooms with OSS for video, although they might still feel slightly heavy.

But I am hopeful to see people testing it with the FE 400/2.8 GM OSS - handheld, of course


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## sanj (Sep 11, 2020)

Beauty. Interested!


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## Deleted member 381342 (Sep 11, 2020)

Looks like a smaller Nikon Z6, a lovely wee point and shoot that you just happen to be able to swap the lenses.


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## mangobutter (Sep 11, 2020)

I hope Canon offers something like this. God this is exactly what I've been wanting.

Canon please make something like this... RP sensor (or better yet R6 sensor), NO EVF, NO IBIS. better yet, offer a recessed sensor and fixed F2.8 lens. (f2 even better)


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## Aaron D (Sep 11, 2020)

I really like the shape of this. If Canon makes an RF version w/ 30-45 MP, I’m in. I agree with those who see this as possible backup/travel body. Perfect for my needs.


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## melgross (Sep 11, 2020)

I’ve never liked small cameras, and I’m an average sized guy with average sized hands. In the other “hand”, my Kodak tech rep, way back when, was a big guy, with big hands, and he bought a Pen F, because he liked small cameras. Go figure.


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## mangobutter (Sep 11, 2020)

knight427 said:


> Anything that adds pressure to reduce the R6 price tag is useful to me. This camera doesn't seem useful to me.



This camera seems EXTREMELY incredibly useful to me. The whole point of a camera is to take pictures and I'm taking more pictures the easier and more convenient it is to bring a camera to places I go. I crave for and long for a SUPER tiny yet powerful full frame camera. Canon needs to bring something like this out.


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## jjj120 (Sep 11, 2020)

Ist this thing FF?! That's pretty small


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## juststeve (Sep 11, 2020)

Looks like a very interesting. camera to me, especially if Sony follows through with a set of compact lenses to match.

My main cameras now are the R5, R and 5DS, with a 7Dii and 1Ds iii in reserve. I also have an M6 ii and several lenses and it is my carry everywhere camera. It may not be taken out every time, but it is usually along. And before the R5 arrived, it was often the lens on my 100-400 L ii and the big lens. 

If Canon makes a similar csmara with a full frame sensor, I would be interested. I would also be interested in an. M7 (or whatever) with a tougher build, IBIS, souped up autofocus, maybe a bit more speed and controls more like the R or R5. A wee bit larger size might be nice, but I bought a SmallRig L bracket-grip for the M6 ii and it made the camera quite nice for handling with a larger lens. Much of my photography is wildlife you either cannot get close to or do not want to get close to so that 32.5 MP APS sensor is quite nice to have handy. 

A light weight compact camera with lenses also light and compact is an excellent tool for some occasions.


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## sanj (Sep 11, 2020)

A 35mm f2 will be superb with this. For me.


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## BroderLund (Sep 11, 2020)

bbasiaga said:


> The obvious option is No 4K HQ or 8K video - which is all that limits the R5 at this point, and also may reduce the need for the high horsepower processor. That processor probably throws off a lot of heat. Another option is no or poorer weather sealing, which can increase air exchange and cool the camera and/or allow for a heat sync of some kind built in to the body.


Sure, but the R6 with 20MP overheats too as it is oversampling the sensor. If this hypothetical camera only had lineskipping 4K then it wouldn't have any issue. Oversampling would be given what we have seen from the R6.


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## Atlasman (Sep 11, 2020)

Famateur said:


> I think it's cool that Sony is doing this -- the more ideas, concepts and competition, the better! I'm sure there will be people that will snap this up (especially for traveling).
> 
> I do find it kind of funny, though...
> 
> ...


Sony makes a number of tiny full-frame lenses—the Zeiss 35mm f2.8 comes to mind.
I own this lens and along with this new concept intrigues me, to say the least!


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## BroderLund (Sep 11, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> By not offering 8K 240fps in 16 bit raw ?


Nobody is asking for that... yet


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## dwarven (Sep 11, 2020)

I have an a6100, which has a similar grip to this. If you're into photography in any serious capacity, this kind of grip is absolutely maddening to use. Your thumb will always be mashing buttons unintentionally, and your other 4 fingers won't even fit. And I have pretty average size hands. The only reason I still use it is because my R6 pre-order hasn't come in yet. That compact size comes at a huge cost, for me at least.


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## Skux (Sep 11, 2020)

I like the concept but I it leans too far towards video for me. There's no index finger dial and a pretty dire lack of custom buttons.


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## privatebydesign (Sep 11, 2020)

huscusahead said:


> The fierce competition between camera makers seems to be creating a new golden age for photography. There are so many amazing cameras out there and they each keep trying to make them better, whether they are useful for your needs or not.


To me it seems to be creating the Golden Age of Noise, I don't see the creatives being more or less creative, and I don't mean YouTube 'creatives' even though none of them seem to push themselves that hard.

I think the reason is true creatives push past obstacles and difficulties and just make what they have work for their creations. All the added tech does most of the time is enable lesser mortals to get the same type of images without the creativity.


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## Fischer (Sep 11, 2020)

Lovely. Reminds me of my Rollei 35S (which I still have). But I think between those having a FF system camera and an iPhone the space is limited. Could be for those wanting more than their phone can give them though.


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## Rocksthaman (Sep 11, 2020)

dwarven said:


> I have an a6100, which has a similar grip to this. If you're into photography in any serious capacity, this kind of grip is absolutely maddening to use. Your thumb will always be mashing buttons unintentionally, and your other 4 fingers won't even fit. And I have pretty average size hands. The only reason I still use it is because my R6 pre-order hasn't come in yet. That compact size comes at a huge cost, for me at least.



The grip is much different. Think more A7iii. Remember this is using the same Z battery as the A7siii, A7r3&4 and A7iii.


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## TMHKR (Sep 11, 2020)

They simply can't into ergonomics. They simply can't.


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## SteveC (Sep 11, 2020)

BroderLund said:


> Nobody is asking for that... yet



No, they just haven't yet thought of complaining about the lack and accusing someone of cripple hammering.


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## SteveC (Sep 11, 2020)

TMHKR said:


> They simply can't into ergonomics. They simply can't.



No surprise to me. They couldn't even get a portable CD player right the last time I bought one from them.


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## Swerky (Sep 11, 2020)

Wonder how it will be priced. Would the upcoming cheaper Eos R have similar specs to this at less than 999$. 
But I don't get those minuscule and cheap full frame cameras. In the end you're gonna mount on them a big and expensive lens. And if you mount a lens with modest focal range and aperture, what's the point of going full frame? What's that on the camera? A 28-60 f4-5.6? Please. For that focal range it should be an f4. But it needs to be small so...


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## dwarven (Sep 11, 2020)

Rocksthaman said:


> The grip is much different. Think more A7iii. Remember this is using the same Z battery as the A7siii, A7r3&4 and A7iii.



Even the grip on the a7iii is horrible. And this one is certainly less robust, judging by the pictures. You’re going to have a very not fun time with this camera if you try to use bigger lenses on it.


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## ctk (Sep 11, 2020)

knight427 said:


> Anything that adds pressure to reduce the R6 price tag is useful to me. This camera doesn't seem useful to me.


I think this thing is going to cost $2K, but have worse specs than the R6, so no dice there.

I know it's not realistic, but I do wish Canon would put out an IBIS equipped body in the sub $2K range.


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## ctk (Sep 11, 2020)

dwarven said:


> Even the grip on the a7iii is horrible. And this one is certainly less robust, judging by the pictures. You’re going to have a very not fun time with this camera if you try to use bigger lenses on it.


Yes... even with the battery grip it still sucks. A dealbreaker for me. My days with Sony were numbered as soon as I gripped the R for the first time.


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## xps (Sep 11, 2020)

Looks like an recycled A6600 with A7III sensor.
Well, pricing is hefty, but a lot of SAR-Guys will buy it.
Ergonomically, it has an articulated screen - an buying argument for Sony youtuber. But an very small EVF. As an wearer of glasses, nothing to feel well in bright conditions.


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## 12Broncos (Sep 11, 2020)




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## analoggrotto (Sep 11, 2020)

SteveC said:


> No surprise to me. They couldn't even get a portable CD player right the last time I bought one from them.


They built a mean SA-CD player.


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## SereneSpeed (Sep 11, 2020)

I’m not sure. Isn’t this EOS M territory for the non-gearheads? If the average consumer looks at this, the lenses will be more $ and bigger than the apsc MILCs, no? I know I (and surely the rest of the readers of a rumor forum) care about FF sensor advantages. But, for someone looking to upgrade their cellphone... can’t see this costing less than it comparable to APSC.


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## peters (Sep 11, 2020)

ethanz said:


> It doesn't look any smaller than their other cameras. But maybe that is just me.


Its a fullframe! From what it looks, they put it into a APS-C Body (like a6000). Thats truely impressive. For travel this is certainly a super great tool! For long hikes its always quite annoying to carry my 5D or now R5...

Its nice to see some trends like this


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## peters (Sep 11, 2020)

BroderLund said:


> Would love a small RF canon FF like this as a backup/hiking body. However given the R5 and R6 I wonder how they would tackle the internal heat in an even smaller body.


Totaly agree! That would be awesome! 
Maybe with a pancake RF 50mm f2.0 that would a an incredible travel companion. Or maybe a small 16-30mm RF lens with f 5.6 or something, just to keep it small. while hiking most FF cameras get pretty heavy after some hours... even with a good belt system..


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## MaxDiesel (Sep 11, 2020)

Kit. said:


> Olympus Stylus 80 Wide: 120x64x49 (with lens!)
> 
> I wish we had some of our FF digital cameras as compact as our film P&S cameras used to be.


Sony tried with the RX1 but you cant beat physics just yet for lens size, tho I read an MIT research where they figured out how to make lenses less then 1” thick, even a 300mm!


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## AEWest (Sep 11, 2020)

amorse said:


> This looks like a really neat little camera. There is definitely a market for small body cameras and this looks like it would be the smallest full frame ILC on the market, if you can get glass small enough to take advantage of that size. If I were a Sony shooter, I'd probably be pretty interested in this as a secondary body which I could cary with little weight/size penalty. It also looks pretty inconspicuous which may be interesting for those doing street photography, or those shooting in countries where big gear collects more attention.


It would pair well with some f/4 zooms.


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## stevensteven (Sep 11, 2020)

MaxDiesel said:


> Sony tried with the RX1 but you cant beat physics just yet for lens size, tho I read an MIT research where they figured out how to make lenses less then 1” thick, even a 300mm!



What are you talking about ! What about Leica M lenses? 

I’m out right now shooting with the summilux 35 1.4. Better than any Sony or canon lens ever made. Tiny as hell. It’s a piece of art.


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## AEWest (Sep 11, 2020)

ctk said:


> I think this thing is going to cost $2K, but have worse specs than the R6, so no dice there.
> 
> I know it's not realistic, but I do wish Canon would put out an IBIS equipped body in the sub $2K range.


I would love an R Mark 2 with IBIS and joystick. For my uses just about perfect.


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## ethanz (Sep 11, 2020)

Comparing this to the A73 with the mount... It isn't much smaller. Maybe someone can show me how it is smaller besides the removed EVF.


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## MaxDiesel (Sep 11, 2020)

Traveler said:


> As a travel photographer, I always try to pack lightweight but having a small camera body is too much of a compromise for me. Even the A7iii feels unconfortable in my hands. What I would appreciate are some small lenses, something like 15-35mm f/7.1, compact not-so-fast fish eye, compact 70-300 (I'm fine with f/7.1)... I use the 24-105 f/4 for 80% shots but I need to carry extra 2-3kg for those 20% of shots.



You’ll be happy, I read that Sony is also launching a new collapsible 28-60mm f/4-5.6 lens.


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## jam05 (Sep 11, 2020)

huscusahead said:


> The fierce competition between camera makers seems to be creating a new golden age for photography. There are so many amazing cameras out there and they each keep trying to make them better, whether they are useful for your needs or not.


Camera sales have been tanking over the last few year actually.


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## privatebydesign (Sep 11, 2020)

jam05 said:


> Camera sales have been tanking over the last few year actually.


Yes but they are still higher than pre-digital historic norms.


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## [email protected] (Sep 11, 2020)

I was using an a6600 (similar form factor) for a remote camera to be left out in the woods for months at a time. Just sold it recently. If it were full frame, I'd have probably kept it for the purpose. Sony's battery management software was better than Canon's in terms of its waking up/sleeping, etc. when dealing with external batteries. But it turns out the RP is even better at the battery stuff now, and is much cheaper than this new one. 

I think this will sell well in the market for which it was intended (vloggers, street photographers and travelers), but is too late to be a secondary camera to a Canon system.


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## MaxDiesel (Sep 12, 2020)

stevensteven said:


> What are you talking about ! What about Leica M lenses?
> 
> I’m out right now shooting with the summilux 35 1.4. Better than any Sony or canon lens ever made. Tiny as hell. It’s a piece of art.


What are you talking about... the original message wished for a FF camera sized like an old Point and Shoot. Only the RX1 is a FF Point and Shoot style/size camera. Tho your comment comes in with a 5,000$ manual focus lens, how is that equivalent to P/S camera. The Leica is a beautiful small lens, many manual focus lenses are tiny... but way off topic.


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## lyleschmitz (Sep 12, 2020)

This thing would pair awesome with those tiny, cheap Samyang AF lenses that just got released for the Sonys. Fantastic travel camera. I really wish Canon would make a small rangefinder style body


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## tmroper (Sep 12, 2020)

Yet another 24 MP sensor camera seems pointless to me. But maybe that really is the new APS-C, as far as the market goes.


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## tmroper (Sep 12, 2020)

MaxDiesel said:


> Only the RX1 is a FF Point and Shoot style/size camera.



So is the Leica Q/Q2.


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## SteveC (Sep 12, 2020)

[email protected] said:


> I was using an a6600 (similar form factor) for a remote camera to be left out in the woods for months at a time. Just sold it recently. If it were full frame, I'd have probably kept it for the purpose. Sony's battery management software was better than Canon's in terms of its waking up/sleeping, etc. when dealing with external batteries. But it turns out the RP is even better at the battery stuff now, and is much cheaper than this new one.
> 
> I think this will sell well in the market for which it was intended (vloggers, street photographers and travelers), but is too late to be a secondary camera to a Canon system.
> View attachment 192731



That head really "pops" for a good 3D effect.


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## Mr Majestyk (Sep 12, 2020)

Hardly a new concept: whack a FF sensor in an A6600 body all for the same money as an A7III.


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## peconicgp (Sep 12, 2020)

mangobutter said:


> I hope Canon offers something like this. God this is exactly what I've been wanting.
> 
> Canon please make something like this... RP sensor (or better yet R6 sensor), NO EVF, NO IBIS. better yet, offer a recessed sensor and fixed F2.8 lens. (f2 even better)


Basically a full frame M6 mk II. I have one and it is a surprisingly functional and capable camera with a usable small design.


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## secant (Sep 12, 2020)

Wait so it's a new concept but Sigma FP already did it?

Lets look at the price for this. Idk I feel like this is probably Sony trying to use parts from different cameras to make another model just to sell off those parts and make some money, before they design a new camera.

But either way since I bought a A6300 when it first came out and then saw them release the A6500 just eight months later I've sworn off of Sony. I've seen a lot of comparisons between the A7SIII and the R5 but I think there's really no comparison, yes maybe you can argue the A7SIII is a better video camera, but the R5 is more of a hybrid camera because it does really well in stills photography as well. Some people actually think the R5 is perhaps the best wildlife birding camera because of its animal eye AF and 45 mega pixel sensor. Try shooting birds and then crop 3x with the A7SIII's 12mp sensor. It's an apples to oranges comparison in which the A7SIII is a dedicated low light video camera where as the R5 is pretty much a hybrid thats good at both stills and video.

In the end if the A7c is priced high, people would think why not add a bit of money to get the A7SIII or R5.


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## mb66energy (Sep 12, 2020)

sanj said:


> A 35mm f2 will be superb with this. For me.


I never liked the 35mm focal length 20 years ago ... but after getting an RP with the RF 1.8 35 MACRO I learned to like 35mm  Great compromise for low light and fair close ups


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## mb66energy (Sep 12, 2020)

Swerky said:


> Wonder how it will be priced. Would the upcoming cheaper Eos R have similar specs to this at less than 999$.
> *But I don't get those minuscule and cheap full frame cameras.* In the end you're gonna *mount on them a big and expensive lens.* And if you mount a lens with modest focal range and aperture, what's the point of going full frame? What's that on the camera? A 28-60 f4-5.6? Please. For that focal range it should be an f4. But it needs to be small so...


My observation is that (1) FF exploits more final resolution/detail from lenses and (2) the transistions (sky, leaves, etc) are smoother, more realistic - that transforms just to the cheapo EOS RP.
And about lenses: For landscape f/8 is fine usually and an adapted EF 40 or the RF 35 are compact & light & sport very good IQ wide open and go to excellent stopped down to f/4.
And cheap means "accessible" for those who do not have the money but like to have better IQ or those who have the money but do not want to spend it (like me, because I am waiting for the "perfect camera")


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## padam (Sep 12, 2020)

Mr Majestyk said:


> Hardly a new concept: whack a FF sensor in an A6600 body all for the same money as an A7III.


It probably has more in common with the A7III or A7SIII than the A6600 (starting with the the screen ratio, which is not 16:9)
You can't just replace the APS-C sensor with a FF one in a tiny body like this one, it is more complicated than that (but you can probably do the reverse of that like doing an EOS R body with an APS-C sensor, if the camera was designed to be FF in the first place, e.g. bigger).


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## DBounce (Sep 12, 2020)

secant said:


> Wait so it's a new concept but Sigma FP already did it?
> 
> Lets look at the price for this. Idk I feel like this is probably Sony trying to use parts from different cameras to make another model just to sell off those parts and make some money, before they design a new camera.
> 
> ...


I don’t think Sigma already did this. The fp, while great in it’s own right, is extremely lacking in some important areas:

No AF - while it technically has AF, in practice it is unusable.
No image stabilization (IBIS or Electronic)
No EVF
No flip screen

Most will find the Sony to be much easier to shoot with.


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## ctk (Sep 12, 2020)

AEWest said:


> I would love an R Mark 2 with IBIS and joystick. For my uses just about perfect.


I wasn't going to go there, but this is exactly what I want too. Waiting until the holidays to see if the R6 goes on sale, but I think I'm going to miss that 10MP.


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## Tom W (Sep 12, 2020)

Looks like a full-frame competitor to the M-series.

I saw on another site, 4K/30 for maximum video. I wonder if it's full sensor or cropped...

Edit: Let me add, a detachable viewfinder like the M6 II would be preferable, would make it a sturdier body. I can visualize that corner-mounted viewfinder being snapped off accidentally. JMHO.


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## [email protected] canon rumors (Sep 12, 2020)

It will Be a nice all around camera for Sony users. I suppose we'll see more compact FF in the future.


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## Shellbo6901 (Sep 12, 2020)

Sounds like canon needs to make a FF M to compete. So we’ll probably see it in 2-3 years


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## StevenA (Sep 13, 2020)

I just don't know how a 70-200 would fit on this and be comfortable to hold and use?


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## slclick (Sep 13, 2020)

More cameras by all makers.


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## deleteme (Sep 13, 2020)

I like the concept of this for a walk around camera but unless I put third party manual focus lenses on it it will be unbalanced and bulky.


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## Joules (Sep 13, 2020)

Shellbo6901 said:


> Sounds like canon needs to make a FF M to compete. So we’ll probably see it in 2-3 years


Actually, you'll have to wait around 0.5 years or less for a similar Canon RF body:









A budget EOS R body is coming in the first half of 2021 [CR2]


The Canon EOS RP is currently the cheapest entry point for the EOS R system. It can currently be had for $999 USD. I have been told that Canon will introduce



www.canonrumors.com





Although probably coming in a less cramped Form factor, that body should be also small. After all, the RP is already light and compact, and it has a viewfinder.


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## i_SH (Sep 13, 2020)

Joules said:


> Actually, you'll have to wait around 0.5 years or less for a similar Canon RF body:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Unfortunately, there are no optics for such a Canon camera. For the Sony camera, there are already such optics at the moment (both native and third-party, Tamron, Samyang) and they promise to release also specialized optics.
A pair of Canon lenses such as 20-70 / 4-5.6 and 70-300 / 4-5.6 could solve this problem.


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## Waldo (Sep 13, 2020)

Exactly the sort of camera I would go for if it had Canon stamped on it!! Hopefully Canon will take note, and quickly, as they could lose out if they miss this segment of the market?!


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## Tremotino (Sep 13, 2020)

The quite big problem is the price. Only very people will buy this camera in the end considering the extreme high price point.
I mean, who is going to buy such a camera for 2-2.5k$ + 0.5-1k$ lense? Only rich people will do. Nor the Leica owners will buy it, they can spend much more on Leica products.


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## Tom W (Sep 13, 2020)

i_SH said:


> Unfortunately, there are no optics for such a Canon camera. For the Sony camera, there are already such optics at the moment (both native and third-party, Tamron, Samyang) and they promise to release also specialized optics.
> A pair of Canon lenses such as 20-70 / 4-5.6 and 70-300 / 4-5.6 could solve this problem.


Well, there is a rumored 24-70 f/4, but no telling how small it will be.

I think that if I were Canon, and I were going to make a very small body like this, I’d opt for the R sensor, have a detachable eyepiece like the M6 II, and maybe have a kit lens similar to what you mentioned. Collapsible like the 15-45 M lens.

Undercut the Sony price by a few hundred and watch the sales roll in.


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## i_SH (Sep 13, 2020)

Tom W said:


> Well, there is a rumored 24-70 f/4, but no telling how small it will be.
> 
> I think that if I were Canon, and I were going to make a very small body like this, I’d opt for the R sensor, have a detachable eyepiece like the M6 II, and maybe have a kit lens similar to what you mentioned. Collapsible like the 15-45 M lens.
> 
> Undercut the Sony price by a few hundred and watch the sales roll in.


Panasonic has managed to make a compact and lightweight lens for the FF camera 20-60 / 3.5-5.6, 350 g, with a maximum magnification of 0.43x. Dust and splash proof! Excellent zoom range! Including for video lovers. The price is not prohibitive!
https://www.dpreview.com/news/29268...ces-lumix-s-20-60mm-f3-5-5-6-lens-for-l-mount
Why doesn't Canon repeat this feat without the lens folding?


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## Joules (Sep 13, 2020)

i_SH said:


> Panasonic has managed to make a compact and lightweight lens for the FF camera 20-60 / 3.5-5.6, 350 g, with a maximum magnification of 0.43x. Dust and splash proof! Excellent zoom range! Including for video lovers. The price is not prohibitive!
> https://www.dpreview.com/news/29268...ces-lumix-s-20-60mm-f3-5-5-6-lens-for-l-mount
> Why doesn't Canon repeat this feat without the lens folding?


Because not enough time has passed yet. We've seen a number of compact and slow zoom patents for RF so far. Once the next lower end bodies are introduced, we'll surely see some of those be released as real products.


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## preppyak (Sep 13, 2020)

StevenA said:


> I just don't know how a 70-200 would fit on this and be comfortable to hold and use?


The whole point of the concept is you wouldnt be putting a 70-200 on the camera. They've said they are gonna release more compact lenses to accompany this; add in a lens line line Tamron's f/2.8 primes and it becomes a great travel option.

Price is a little high; going like $1499 would be really interesting...


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## YuengLinger (Sep 14, 2020)

A first of its kind is often priced high when released, and then drifts down. I think a little FF Canon like this would be great. I haven't tried an Rf 35m 1.8 IS macro yet, but it looks about the size that might pair with a body this size...Better yet, a compact Rf 50mm f/1.4 IS!!!

Not every camera body has to do every camera job! Kind of silly to grumble about a Rangefinder type body not balancing well with a Great White! (Or even the Baby White, 70-200mm f/2.8.)


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## Daner (Sep 14, 2020)

Kit. said:


> Olympus Stylus 80 Wide: 120x64x49 (with lens!)
> 
> I wish we had some of our FF digital cameras as compact as our film P&S cameras used to be.



Agreed. I would love to see a company give its designers an Olympus XA and Stylus/Mju to play with and task them with creating a FF digital equivalent. (I owned each when they were new.)

Of course, smartphones have taken over nearly all of that market, but I still want a grip and a viewfinder.


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## andrei1989 (Sep 14, 2020)

i like it...i like the rangefinder style. i like my small fuji x-e1 but it doesn't have any kind of grip, none, zero. i would have considered this camera but at 2k body only it's way too much...


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## PerKr (Sep 14, 2020)

Still not that small. Difference between an A7 form factor and this seems practically negligible. And you still need to stick to short focal lengths and slow apertures to reduce the package size of a FF camera, thus losing the FF advantages anyway. If compactness was something I needed, I would avoid FF in favor of APS-C or m43. Now, if you just want the form factor, well, we all have different tastes. Also, if you want to have the most compact FF setup available and don't care what that does to the end result, well, this shaves a few mm off. I just don't find it something to be very excited about.


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## fox40phil (Sep 14, 2020)

padam said:


> I have used Sony APS-C cameras like that and I think the grip is just too short.
> The RP is a slight bit cramped compared to the R, but probably still much more easy to handle than this one.


that’s why I bought the grip instantly with my RP ... then it is perfect!

A new RP would be really sweet! With DP AF 2.0 and maybe Ibis?! Some MP and noise improvement and the perfect 2nd body is there. Currently I’m using the RP more often then the 5DIV which has a really bad AF...


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## jam05 (Sep 14, 2020)

$2000 (body only) for aesthetics. A camera that can only do 4k 30p and not much more. Stripped down A6600 with a larger sensor shoved inside for nearly a grand extra. Just give it a little red dot too.


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## harrylarsen (Sep 14, 2020)

What, has Canon bought Sony, this is Canon rumors!!!


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## SecureGSM (Sep 14, 2020)

harrylarsen said:


> What, has Canon bought Sony, this is Canon rumors!!!


That’s “Industry News” part of CR forum. There some other camera brands besides Canon still manufacturing cameras. For now...You know.. like Nikon, Panasonic, Fuji, Ricoh / Pentax. and some third tier, little guys like: Sony, YI and some others


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 14, 2020)

From the the smaller FF camera rumors, I expect Canon to come out with one smaller than the RP. The issue is the size of the lens mount, there is space for a sensor, but IBIS takes a lot of space too. A RF mount tiny camera is possible, but with IBIS, video heat transfer becomes a issue so don't expect high end video.


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## Shellbo6901 (Sep 15, 2020)

Welp, the news today and reviews already turned me away, the eye piece is well sad. Why they didn’t go with the tiltable like the M4/3 cams they copied already


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