# finally giving up on Lr...best alternative?



## pwp (Jun 2, 2017)

I've been an advocate for Adobe since Photoshop v3 and a rusted on Lr user since Lr was in public beta. It's used on high volume projects on a daily basis. The _Great Lr Slowdown_ seemed to start with Lr5 and has been erratic from a performance viewpoint ever since. 

Despite running Lr 2015.10.1 on a powerful 8 core 32Gb 3.6Ghz Win10 PC, Lr drags in the Develop Module to the point of being unusable, sometime with a delay of five seconds from a slider move to catch up in the preview. This varies from day to day. It's just weird. I've done everything in the Adobe Universe to find a fix, but to no avail. I've had it.

So I'm after the best alternative to Lr that has a comparable workflow standard and feature set. 
I'm not after freeware, just the best there is. ACR? C1Pro? Something I may not be aware of?

-pw


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## IglooEater (Jun 2, 2017)

pwp said:


> I've been an advocate for Adobe since Photoshop v3 and a rusted on Lr user since Lr was in public beta. It's used on high volume projects on a daily basis. The _Great Lr Slowdown_ seemed to start with Lr5 and has been erratic from a performance viewpoint ever since.
> 
> Despite running Lr 2015.10.1 on a powerful 8 core 32Gb 3.6Ghz Win10 PC, Lr drags in the Develop Module to the point of being unusable, sometime with a delay of five seconds from a slider move to catch up in the preview. This varies from day to day. It's just weird. I've done everything in the Adobe Universe to find a fix, but to no avail. I've had it.
> 
> ...



I don't mean to be insulting, but I assume you have OpenGL activated? I found LR snappy enough on my base model 2009 laptop with OpenGL. Until that is, Adobe cut support for my old GPU. :'(

Otherwise, I've been taking a very hard look at C1Pro, and if I leave, that's where I'm going.


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## pwp (Jun 2, 2017)

IglooEater said:


> I don't mean to be insulting, but I assume you have OpenGL activated? I found LR snappy enough on my base model 2009 laptop with OpenGL. Until that is, Adobe cut support for my old GPU. :'(
> Otherwise, I've been taking a very hard look at C1Pro, and if I leave, that's where I'm going.


Thanks, yes checked that one...and a million other tips and suggestions from threads in the Lr Forums, Lightroom Queen, Luminous Landscape and so on. I'm not alone, there are a lot of Lr users who also have baffling, utterly inexplicable, unsolvable performance issues. The weirdest thing is that one day it will snap along as expected then the brakes just get slammed on. 

-pw


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## CSD (Jun 2, 2017)

I prefer C1 over Lr, it's just faster and more colour accurate especially for portrait work. Downside you lose access to all the presets you get for Lr and creating profiles is harder as it doesn't support DNG profiles.


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## candc (Jun 2, 2017)

I think dxo optics pro does the best straight up conversions and has the best noise reduction. It has "lens modules" that auto load and work like lens profiles but better. 

It does not however have any local adjustment tools or any import functionality.

I haven't had the type of slowdowns with lr that you describe and I use it on an older win 7 laptop and a surface pro 3 without issue.


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## YuengLinger (Jun 2, 2017)

Do you get the sluggish sliders before or after applying local adjustments?

I'm running Win 10 on a 2010 built i7 950, 24GB RAM, GeForce GTX 960 (2GB), and a Samsung SSD.

I keep my LR catalogs, system page, and Photoshop scratch files all on the SSD, along with my OS.

I only have occasional slider issues, even when adding more edits to 2GB Tiffs coming back from PS CC. I'm sure if I had a machine dedicated to just editing, I'd be doing even better, but as it is, I've got a fair amount of bloat which I do try to minimize by getting rid of any unnecessary startup stuff.

When was the last time you just did a clean install of Windows 10? (That was the path I chose for the initial upgrade from Windows 7.)

I know your question was about alternatives, but over time I've seen plug-ins (OnOne, AlienSkin) also have occasional crazy slowdowns that get resolved after updates. I'm just suggesting that it would be a shame to invest your time and money into something new and find more performance issues down the line.


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## Keith_Reeder (Jun 2, 2017)

candc said:


> I think dxo optics pro does the best straight up conversions and has the best noise reduction.



Naaah - utterly abysmal highlight handling (only beaten in the "worst highlight recovery" stakes by AfterShot Pro), and Photo Ninja kicks it into the weeds for noise reduction (PN's default NR is better than Optics Pro's PRIME - and as quick as its normal NR).

And I speak as an erstwhile Optics Pro beta tester.

I'd also mention that Optics Pro has no DAM capabilities, which appear to be a priority for the OP if his "similar workflow" ask is anything to go by.


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## Ladislav (Jun 2, 2017)

Do you just want to start fresh in the new tool or migrate your existing catalog to the new tool as well? For the latter case, I don't think there is any alternative at all unless you migrate just processed tiffs.

Btw. I also find LR S___ty in terms of performance - it even gets worse if I let it run for a while. If I want to spend a day working in LR, it is better to do couple restarts during the day to let it release all the resources it leaked. It is ridiculous. I also noticed that any local adjustments decrease performance significantly.

My setup:
- Old i7 920 with 12 GB Ram, AMD 6970, Win 10 and catalog on first SSD, 1:1 previews on second SSD and RAW files on regular HDD

Since my case for moving from one tool to another tool is the first one, I'm stuck with it.


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## zim (Jun 2, 2017)

I use C1 and DxO pro depending on subject matter. If I had to choose only one C1 would will hands down for DAM, speed and flexability. DxO is a one trick pony with a heck of a good trick ie PRIME. C1 is no slouch in that dept. either though!


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## Keith_Reeder (Jun 2, 2017)

In terms of all round effectiveness it's hard to get past Capture One, it must be said - other Lightroom-alikes (AfterShot Pro, ACDSee) can't compete.


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## tomscott (Jun 2, 2017)

I have a 2010 mac pro with the firmware upgraded to the 2012 model so I could put a 3.46 6 core Xeon, 48gb ram (triple channel), 2x 250gb 850 Samsung evos running on PCIe cards in raid 0 with an old ATI 5770.

The thing is lightroom is single core power hungry and using 6-8-10-12 core machines tends to be slower than using a more powerful quad with a higher clock speed.

I have to say I have had similar problems but I'm on a really old machine albeit with half decent specs. My GPU is pretty rubbish by today standards so have the GPU option turned off, its only PCIe2 so not sure if I would benefit from a newer PCIe3 card. But I render at 1:1 and never get rid of the cache its always on and is stored with the LR catalogue.

It runs surprisingly well. The only time I seem to get slow downs is if I zoom to 100% (takes a couple of seconds to render) use the perspective correction and if I use sharpen/noise reduction. 

So tend to do sharpening/noise last.

I tend to keep my catalogues light, have one per year and if the event is a big one I make a new catalogue specifically for that to keep my main catalogue fresh. 

The main big performance increase I saw was using the PCIe SSDs running roughly 800mb read/write and increasing the cash and it rendering 1:1 previews seemed to make the process much better. But overall using new catalogues and not overloading with too many images maybe 3-4k each then make a new catalogue.

I bought a bog standard 2016 MacBook as a consumption machine with the slow M3 and 8gbs of ram and it absolutely flies through lightroom much better at rendering than my mac pro. Amazing how much more efficient at task these newer CPUs are infact on a single core the base MacBook with no fans and the logic board the size of an iPhone is faster than my 2008 8 core 2.8ghz mac pro... obviously get beasted in multicore tasks but unless your rendering footage or 3D modelling not many applications are written to take advantage of multicore CPUs the 2008 was so slow with lightroom I swapped it out for the 2010 and put the 6 core in, roughly 3x the performance for £1000 and got to stay in the mac ecosystem. 

Couldn't see myself using anything else tbh... the other software has drawback too.


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## Orangutan (Jun 2, 2017)

pwp said:


> I've done everything in the Adobe Universe to find a fix, but to no avail. I've had it.



Even though you're giving up, it might help others to know what you've tried. Could you please post a list of all the tweaks you've made to LR? 

For example, I was able to get substantially improved performance by pre-generating all my 100% previews before I even start my sorting process. It reduces the subjective time and frustration, though I'm sure it doesn't reduce actual processing time.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 2, 2017)

Your issue sounds unusual, particularly if it varies from day to day. I do use smart previews which make response virtually instant, but viewing at 1:1 takes 1/10 sec, and editing like NR, brush, etc is real time, no discernible delay.

I just have a plain refurbished Dell I7 XPS 8900 with a inexpensive video card and a older SSD and 32GB of memory. I see nothing like you describe, LR is much faster than I am. The PC cost under $600 and is nothing like a 8 core model as far as speed goes. 

I'd certainly be suspecting a hardware issue or a Software conflict (more likely). There are relatively few who have issues like this, but it can be frustrating to deal with and find the issue. Sometimes, Victoria Brampton posts suggestions to the LR forums for those with issues. I've found her advice to be very sound. My First Photoshop edition was 3.5 a long time ago, but I did not use LR until ver 2, I tried the original, but did not like it.

I stopped building my own PC's after I found I could buy a Dell cheaper, and find it often ran faster due to the components working better together than the expensive souped up models I built myself. I was advised to do that by a relative who is a Microsoft Manager, and he was right, at least for me. 

I still have a few of the PC's I built myself, I keep one With windows XP, with floppy drive, PS2 ports, serial ports, parallel ports, SCSI ports, and firewire ports, even usb ports so I can run older hardware if I need it. I fired it up the other day. It uses the older IDE drive, but I have adapters to run SATA or SCSI drives if I want. I keep a even older one running DOS with ISA card slots as well as PCI slots which rarely gets used for a vintage piece of equipment that required DOS and a ISA card. 

I remember building my first PC in the 1980's, back then, it was monochrome with separate cards for everything, Hercules graphics card, floppy dive, a Western Digital RLL Hard drive and card, and the 5.25 floppies. Its long gone. Those original power supplies with the transformer rather than switching power supply were monsters as were the full height Hard Drives.


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## alvarow (Jun 2, 2017)

I think Affinity Photo is worth a look ... I really like it, great features. It is however more like Photoshop...not a strong as a catalog as LR.

https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/photo/


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## IglooEater (Jun 2, 2017)

CSD said:


> creating profiles is harder as it doesn't support DNG profiles.



So how do you do it, can one use x-rite stuff to make profiles at all? (Other than white card white balance)


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## peterzuehlke (Jun 2, 2017)

capture one pro (i don't really use it for image management, but for conversion, definately my fav.)


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## Ladislav (Jun 2, 2017)

tomscott said:


> I tend to keep my catalogues light, have one per year and if the event is a big one I make a new catalogue specifically for that to keep my main catalogue fresh.



If this is how LR is supposed to be used, then it is huge disappointment. One reason why I like LR is to have good organization tool which sits on top of folder structure. I just want to open LR and find any photo I took within few queries from single catalog - not going through several catalogues and trying again. I also like the fact that editing and catalog are in single tool.

I now have about 20k pictures in Lightroom. I assume LR is using SQLite underneath to work with database and 20k records should be piece of cake. Once you move to develop mode, you are working with single image anyway. 

Based on my observation of LR performance, I think it works like this:
The part which takes time is to render in develop mode - 1:1 preview is useless once you make a single change and don't regenerate it - I'm not sure if smart previews are answer to that. It looks like LR is reprocessing the whole image after every single change - you use a spot healing to clear small dust -> whole image rendered again. You do a stroke with selective brush -> whole image is rendered again before it even shows you overlay of your new stroke. More modifications you do to the image, more processing needs to be done every time you add a new change. 

But it seems like a good advice to do some processing like sharpening and denoising at the very end of the workflow because those will be among most complex ones and you just don't want to do run them after each change. It could be one of my problems because I have a basic sharpening in my import preset and I was even trying to figure out how to do basic denoising per ISO level during import.


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## Keith_Reeder (Jun 2, 2017)

alvarow said:


> I think Affinity Photo is worth a look ... I really like it, great features. It is however more like Photoshop...not a strong as a catalog as LR.



No cataloguing at all, to be accurate. Serif has a standalone DAM solution in development.


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## cellomaster27 (Jun 2, 2017)

alvarow said:


> I think Affinity Photo is worth a look ... I really like it, great features. It is however more like Photoshop...not a strong as a catalog as LR.
> 
> https://affinity.serif.com/en-us/photo/



I have affinity photo.. my MacBook Pro with LR5.7 decided to crash and take everything with it. I need something with the workflow that LR has. I don't really understand affinity photo well enough but I don't think it does batch editing..


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## zim (Jun 2, 2017)

Keith_Reeder said:


> alvarow said:
> 
> 
> > I think Affinity Photo is worth a look ... I really like it, great features. It is however more like Photoshop...not a strong as a catalog as LR.
> ...



+1 not a LR replacement, never designed to be. In the future though with a good DAM solution who knows. For now C1 and AP as a finishing tool is a superb combo imho.


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## yorgasor (Jun 2, 2017)

I was in the same boat. I built a top of the line workstation specifically tailored to handling Lightroom tasks, and it still bogged down and took forever to do some tasks at times. I had gone through all the optimization suggestions and tips, etc... to no avail. Finally an update a couple months ago made things usable again, although I still have to restart Lightroom pretty regularly when it bogs down. Anyway, this was the app I was just about to escape to, when Lightroom managed to salvage itself.

https://www.alienskin.com/exposure/


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## pwp (Jun 3, 2017)

Orangutan said:


> pwp said:
> 
> 
> > I've done everything in the Adobe Universe to find a fix, but to no avail. I've had it.
> ...



OK, here's what I have done (that I can remember...)

1. Optimise catalog regularly, though my catalog is tiny. I use another DAM system.
2. Toggle "Use Graphics Processor" and test
3. Toggle Smart Previews and test.
4. Increase Cache size to 40Gb 50Gb 70Gb etc , vary it and test.
5. Purge Cache regularly
6. Trash preferences.
7. Hide all Lr processes and locations from AntiVirus/Malware 
8. Make sure there is a lot of spare space on the HDD. I'm at 50% capacity.
9. Lr (and all programs inc OS) are on a fast SSD
10. Face recognition is OFF
11. Keep Nvidia GTX 770 drivers up to date
12. Keep input device drivers up to date (Razer mouse and Wacom Intuos Pro)
13. Sorting and ranking is done externally in Photomechanic which keeps Lr Import size down. 

There must be more...this has been going on for a long time.

This morning I read up on a Victoria Bampton- Lightroom Queen Lr Forums thread and she suggested as a last ditch thing that the user account may be corrupted, and to try running Lr from a fresh user account. I wouldn't have a clue how to do this. It's worth a try for sure.



Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Your issue sounds unusual, particularly if it varies from day to day.
> 
> I'd certainly be suspecting a hardware issue or a Software conflict (more likely). There are relatively few who have issues like this, but it can be frustrating to deal with and find the issue. Sometimes, Victoria Brampton posts suggestions to the LR forums for those with issues. I've found her advice to be very sound.



You're very likely right, the erratic performance is inexplicable so a conflict is probably the culprit. But identifying it is beyond my skill level. But it's _just _Lr. Photoshop just rips through the most demanding processes I can throw at it, and Premiere Pro is also never lacking for brisk, completely satisfying performance. Same with After Effects, Illustrator...

-pw


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## Orangutan (Jun 3, 2017)

pwp said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > pwp said:
> ...



This looks like a pretty good list. 

I doubt the account is the problem, but you could test this by running LR offline once -- start your computer disconnected from the Internet and see how it behaves.

I have three suggestions:

1. Run disk first aid, in case there's a problem with the SSD. Even better, run the SSD manufacturer's diagnostic tool.
2. Temporarily test with files and catalog on a non-SSD -- again, this is to rule out weird SSD behavior
3. Find a techie friend to help you do a thorough uninstall/reinstall. Many programs leave bits and pieces behind; that occasionally leads to weird behavior.

Good luck, this sounds very frustrating.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 3, 2017)

pwp said:


> I'd certainly be suspecting a hardware issue or a Software conflict (more likely). There are relatively few who have issues like this, but it can be frustrating to deal with and find the issue. Sometimes, Victoria Brampton posts suggestions to the LR forums for those with issues. I've found her advice to be very sound.



You're very likely right, the erratic performance is inexplicable so a conflict is probably the culprit. But identifying it is beyond my skill level. But it's _just _Lr. Photoshop just rips through the most demanding processes I can throw at it, and Premiere Pro is also never lacking for brisk, completely satisfying performance. Same with After Effects, Illustrator...

-pw


I had what was believed to be a user account issue in Windows 10 recently, I always had to login twice, the first time always gave a error. Microsoft could not manage to help fix it, then the new Windows 10 Creators version arrived, it is a major upgrade to much of windows. The problem immediately went away. In my case, a different Windows user account was of no help.

I did not see any reference to exporting your catalog to a new one. This often cleans up issues that cannot be found by the optimize process. Just export your catalog to one with a new name, only keep what you need, the previews will rebuild themselves, so don't keep them.

To do this, 

1. in library, select catalog / all photographs in the left pane.

2. go to file / export as catalog / To minimize the risk of exporting a bad preview, uncheck export previews. 

3. Give the exported catalog a new name, and save it, it will take a while to create the new one based on the size.

4. open the newly saved catalog and start using it. That process has fixed issues for me in the past.

20,000 images in a catalog is a small number, I have many times that number.

Here are some more tips. If you use the spot removal tool frequently, it can slow things down because it keeps the history forever. You can clean out the history to speed things up. 

https://helpx.adobe.com/lightroom/kb/optimize-performance-lightroom.html


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## LightroomQueen (Jun 3, 2017)

pwp said:


> This morning I read up on a Victoria Bampton- Lightroom Queen Lr Forums thread and she suggested as a last ditch thing that the user account may be corrupted, and to try running Lr from a fresh user account. I wouldn't have a clue how to do this. It's worth a try for sure.



My ears were burning.  There's a checklist in the back of my free Performance eBook, but you seem to have done a lot of it already. 

Are the performance problems limited to slider movements? What resolution monitor? Any secondary monitor? What kind of adjustments are already applied to the photo? Does it get worse as you continue editing a single photo? Or what exactly happens?

Without knowing the answers to these questions, there's a couple of things that spring to mind:

Some people have found that completely uninstalling their graphics driver and all its various bits, and then reinstalling the latest does the trick.
A new user account can be useful as a test, because it gives you a fresh start on all sorts of settings. It's worth a try. https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/instantanswers/5de907f1-f8ba-4fd9-a89d-efd23fee918c/create-a-local-user-or-administrator-account-in-windows-10


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## LightroomQueen (Jun 3, 2017)

Oh, one more thing, since you're on 8-core. Try Simon Chen's config.lua test half way down this page: https://feedback.photoshop.com/photoshop_family/topics/lightroom-clone-and-brush-tool-can-not-stress-the-cpu-is-slow-only-on-cpu-with-xeon-architectures-can-confirm?topic-reply-list[settings][filter_by]=all&topic-reply-list[settings][page]=2#topic-reply-list There's a lot of posts on that page, so search the page for Develop.AdjustMaximumThreadCount = 0.51


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## LDS (Jun 3, 2017)

pwp said:


> But it's _just _Lr. Photoshop just rips through the most demanding processes I can throw at it, and Premiere Pro is also never lacking for brisk, completely satisfying performance. Same with After Effects, Illustrator...



LR is written using a different technology, and that may be one of the reasons. Yet, if issues don't happen in fully repeatable way, there could be other reasons. There are tools to investigate such issues, but they require some specific knowledge and experience to be used to pinpoint the issue.

Hope competition forces Adobe to rewrite LR soon to exploit better latest hardware, it would also be useful to open a bug with Adobe support, maybe they won't fix it ASAP, but the more the reports, the better chances they'll have to do something in a new release - unless, of course one decides to ditch LR forever.


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## YuengLinger (Jun 3, 2017)

Did I miss, PWP, that you tried a clean install of Windows? I know people grumble about it, reinstalling so many programs, but really, compared to all the rabbit holes we go down trying to fix an issue, it's much easier and less time consuming. Then once all is installed and running correctly, do a system image to revert back to next time bloat and conflict get out of hand.

If that doesn't work, then a dodgy controller of some sort that gets involved more with LR than other programs which seem to be running ok.


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## Zeidora (Jun 4, 2017)

cellomaster27 said:


> alvarow said:
> 
> 
> > I think Affinity Photo is worth a look ... I really like it, great features. It is however more like Photoshop...not a strong as a catalog as LR.
> ...



I've done batch processing in AP. Works nicely, output interface is much better than PS. Never used LR, so cannot compare.


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## pwp (Jun 4, 2017)

YuengLinger said:


> Did I miss, PWP, that you tried a clean install of Windows? I know people grumble about it, reinstalling so many programs, but really, compared to all the rabbit holes we go down trying to fix an issue, it's much easier and less time consuming. Then once all is installed and running correctly, do a system image to revert back to next time bloat and conflict get out of hand.
> If that doesn't work, then a dodgy controller of some sort that gets involved more with LR than other programs which seem to be running ok.



No, not yet...too disruptive while business is brisk. As I understand it, clean installs were an entirely valid strategy in earlier Windows OS versions, but Win 10 is a great deal more stable. There's a major upgrade to Win10 coming up, or is already being rolled out. Mt Spokane mentioned it as fixing some issues for him. When that update rolls through my studio, I'll hope for the best. Otherwise, your suggestion may be on the money.

-pw


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## pwp (Jun 4, 2017)

BTW thank you to everyone for the interest and suggestions. And a particular thanks to Victoria Bampton the Lightroom Queen for visiting CR and posting very useful suggestions and links. 

-pw


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 4, 2017)

LightroomQueen said:


> Without knowing the answers to these questions, there's a couple of things that spring to mind:
> 
> Some people have found that completely uninstalling their graphics driver and all its various bits, and then reinstalling the latest does the trick.
> A new user account can be useful as a test, because it gives you a fresh start on all sorts of settings. It's worth a try. https://support.microsoft.com/en-gb/instantanswers/5de907f1-f8ba-4fd9-a89d-efd23fee918c/create-a-local-user-or-administrator-account-in-windows-10



Victoria, Welcome to CR.

Although you are not here to advertise your Excellent Lightroom books, I'd like to mention that I purchased a e-book in the past when I was learning Lightroom, and read it from cover to cover. It was well organized and easy to read.

I've often found your posts while researching a lightroom issue, and you have posted some suggestions for me in the past that solved my issue.

So ... I'd like to thank you for the many hours you spend helping Lightroom Users, and to plug / recommend Your books. There are few other authors who support their books like you do, and Lightroom users, particularly those of us who think we already know everything can learn so much more.

They are available here:

https://www.lightroomqueen.com/

Or on Amazon in printed or Kindle Edition

https://www.amazon.com/s/ref=nb_sb_noss?url=search-alias%3Daps&field-keywords=lightroom+queen+


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## digigal (Jun 4, 2017)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> So ... I'd like to thank you for the many hours you spend helping Lightroom Users, and to plug / recommend Your books. There are few other authors who support their books like you do, and Lightroom users, particularly those of us who think we already know everything can learn so much more.
> 
> They are available here:
> 
> ...



I can certainly second that! The Missing FAQ by the LR Queen sits on my desk next to the my computer and another copy resides on my travel laptop. Vital references for using LR.

But in spite of all the help, LR seems to be morphing with each new update into some slowly worsening bloatware that always has something that's not working right and the next update fixes that but breaks something else. I wish you could just download the functions you wanted and not have to take the whole gigantic basketful of whatever they throw in.
Catherine


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## Keith_Reeder (Jun 4, 2017)

Got to agree - The Missing FAQ is the definitive Lr source, IMHO.


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## drmikeinpdx (Jun 4, 2017)

I wonder if the increasing file size from current sensors plays a role in slower Lightroom performance?

I'm not having any really annoying problems and my sliders work fine, but sometimes rendering seems a little slower than I remember it from years past. And LR does take longer to open my large, multi-year catalog than it did. Could be it's just dealing with a lot more data. 

-Windows 10, custom build, i7 @ 3.4 ghz, 16 G RAM, old graphics card, SSD for apps and my LR catalog is on two spinning hard drives.

Nice discussion.


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## LDS (Jun 4, 2017)

pwp said:


> but Win 10 is a great deal more stable. There's a major upgrade to Win10 coming up, or is already being rolled out. Mt Spokane mentioned it as fixing some issues for him. When that update rolls through my studio, I'll hope for the best. Otherwise, your suggestion may be on the money.



Unluckily, Windows 10 is the less stable system unless you are on the LTSB (long term support branch). On other versions Microsoft is free to send new updates to a subset of users (updates you can't ignore) picked using the data telemetry sends back (i.e. what hw, what sw is installed) to test them before full release. It doesn't happen for Insiders users only, which gets the new features, it happens on a larger scale when Microsoft needs to test updates and patches. And you can't opt out but using the Enterprise version and LTSB.

This is also a reason not to rush and install a new update before it is offered to you. There are good chances it is not tested enough yet.

There are again good reasons to switch to a Mac, if you don't want to be a guinea pig for Microsoft bigger customers.


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## CSD (Jun 4, 2017)

LDS said:


> Unluckily, Windows 10 is the less stable system unless you are on the LTSB (long term support branch). On other versions Microsoft is free to send new updates to a subset of users (updates you can't ignore) picked using the data telemetry sends back (i.e. what hw, what sw is installed) to test them before full release. It doesn't happen for Insiders users only, which gets the new features, it happens on a larger scale when Microsoft needs to test updates and patches. And you can't opt out but using the Enterprise version and LTSB.
> 
> This is also a reason not to rush and install a new update before it is offered to you. There are good chances it is not tested enough yet.



This is wrong on so many levels it's laughable. Seriously, Microsoft has three rings for Insiders: Fast, Slow and Release Preview. All are tested on the Insiders network, which is opt in, before being made available for general release. It's not perfect but then again most insiders will run Win 10 in a VM not real world hardware which can lead to issues.

LTSB get 6 months grace before they have to upgrade to the previous release otherwise they don't get support for unsupported systems. LTSB will be updated via a WSUS server in most cases. It's also not available to the average user because you need a minimum amount of seats to qualify.

Out of all the Windows to date, statistically Windows 10 has been more secure and stable than any other Windows. Windows has always staged updates to it's users since Win 7 to reduce load on their servers and determine there's any major issues with the patches. Historically they've also been quick to retract problematic updates.

https://blogs.windows.com/windowsexperience/2016/02/10/announcing-windows-10-mobile-insider-preview-build-10586-107/


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## YuengLinger (Jun 4, 2017)

One problem with Windows 10 is that it encouraged upgrading on top of the user's existing OS, meaning that problems didn't get fixed, they got built in to the upgrade. I understand that in cases drivers were swapped out, but often conflicts did not get addressed.

Which is why a clean install of Windows 10 makes such a big difference for so many users--they never had one in the first place.


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## LDS (Jun 4, 2017)

CSD said:


> This is wrong on so many levels it's laughable.



Keep on laughing, and read the Windows 10 TOS. My job is in cybersecurity and I have a clear view of what Microsoft is doing with Windows 10. Even the things Microsoft don't want you to know, because Windows 10 is not just a new OS, it's a new business model. Where most users are guinea pigs.

Let's see who will have the last laugh.


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## Orangutan (Jun 4, 2017)

LDS said:


> CSD said:
> 
> 
> > This is wrong on so many levels it's laughable.
> ...



Mostly agree with LDS.


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## hovland (Jun 4, 2017)

Hi

have considered to switch to C1, myself. mostly due to the Adobe LR license policy.

One tong you could try to speed up is to have the cash file on a separate fast disk. 
And a fast m.2 ssd as primary os drive. 

have a fast 6 core system @4Ghz and a Samsung 950pro. had some lite lagging and moved the cache file over a a drive with 3 ssd's in raid 0. seems to have helped.


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## Orangutan (Jun 4, 2017)

hovland said:


> 3 ssd's in raid 0. seems to have helped.



Just an observation from a former IT guy, SSDs in RAID 0 is a recipe for disaster: if any of them fail, the whole thing fails. If you're just using it as cache then it's a clever re-use of old gear. If it has real data on it, I strongly advise either replacing with a single high-quality drive, or a very robust and frequent backup scheme. Of course, you want a good backup scheme regardless, but it's even more important in this case.

Regards,

O


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## hovland (Jun 4, 2017)

Orangutan said:


> hovland said:
> 
> 
> > 3 ssd's in raid 0. seems to have helped.
> ...



Agree on that, just giving an example. And i don't generally recommend it, but its ok for a cache file.


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## ScottyP (Jun 4, 2017)

Rather than trying to find the issue, just wipe the hard drive and reinstall windows. It has to be something on your end, or else everyone would have problems with LR.


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## CSD (Jun 4, 2017)

YuengLinger said:


> One problem with Windows 10 is that it encouraged upgrading on top of the user's existing OS, meaning that problems didn't get fixed, they got built in to the upgrade. I understand that in cases drivers were swapped out, but often conflicts did not get addressed.
> 
> Which is why a clean install of Windows 10 makes such a big difference for so many users--they never had one in the first place.



Windows 10 does what's called a in-place install, it wipes the original OS and then installs the Win 10 image in it's place. It backs up and restores relevant user configuration files, but you can easily revert Win 10 back to factory defaults under the Restore settings if there are issues easily resolving any gremlins. You don't need to do a clean install. I've rolled out nearly 7,000 computers upgrading Win 7 and Win 8 in Enterprise environments. The most common issue I've seen is mostly drivers, usually nVidia or Intel, causing crashes according to SCCM logs. Drivers for Win 10 are pulled from Windows Update server or SCCM where applicable.



LDS said:


> Keep on laughing, and read the Windows 10 TOS. My job is in cybersecurity and I have a clear view of what Microsoft is doing with Windows 10. Even the things Microsoft don't want you to know, because Windows 10 is not just a new OS, it's a new business model. Where most users are guinea pigs.
> 
> Let's see who will have the last laugh.



Actually I deal with people who do Penetration Testing and InfoSec, plus the people I work with have access to Windows (and Office) source code when required and/or flagged. Plus which ToS? There are several depending on contract and licence.


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## Ladislav (Jun 4, 2017)

LDS said:


> There are again good reasons to switch to a Mac, if you don't want to be a guinea pig for Microsoft bigger customers.



This got my attention. I don't want to turn this into a flameware but out of curiosity how can someone working in cybersecurity advise to use Apple SW instead of MS SW? Aren't they both closed SW anyway? 

Btw. We have 2 iPhones, 2 iPads, Apple TV and 2 MacBooks Pro at home and my experience with your statement is exactly opposite. Especially guinea pig example made me laugh, because Win 10 may be a new model which is making me Microsoft's guinea pig, but I'm Apple's guinea pig since I purchased their first product. Apple has unbelievable track of releasing badly tested SW to their customers just to meet the deadline. I very quickly learnt not to update when update becomes available. On the other hand, I've never had a problem with Windows because of updating.


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## LightroomQueen (Jun 5, 2017)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Although you are not here to advertise your Excellent Lightroom books, I'd like to mention that I purchased a e-book in the past when I was learning Lightroom, and read it from cover to cover. It was well organized and easy to read.





digigal said:


> I can certainly second that! The Missing FAQ by the LR Queen sits on my desk next to the my computer and another copy resides on my travel laptop. Vital references for using LR.





Keith_Reeder said:


> Got to agree - The Missing FAQ is the definitive Lr source, IMHO.



Thank you very much guys!



drmikeinpdx said:


> I wonder if the increasing file size from current sensors plays a role in slower Lightroom performance?



Yes, it has a huge impact. It's a lot more pixels to compute. That's where the new Smart Preview preference setting really comes into its own.


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