# Industry News: The first Nikon Z 9 specifications



## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 6, 2020)

> Nikon Rumors has released the first specifications for Nikon’s professional Z 9 mirrorless camera. This will complete with Sony’s pro A9 series camera and the rumored Canon EOS R1.
> Perhaps Nikon has their resources into this camera and its why the D6 was such an incremental update.
> *Rumored Nikon Z 9 specifications:*
> 
> ...



Continue reading...


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## StoicalEtcher (Oct 6, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> The Z9 is described as a D6 body combined with EOS R5imaging, α9II AF, and blackout-free EVF


Hmmnn... sounds like the Marketing Department have really gone to work on their blurb then...   Will be stellar if Engineering have managed to keep pace.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Oct 6, 2020)

Just in time for my 35th next year if I stick with Nikon for my wildlife body. All Canon need to do is put out a R1 and 500mm f/5.6 before hand, first passed the post!


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## Joules (Oct 6, 2020)

What is object detection AF?

Also, I'm curious if those 20 FPS are mechanical. At the moment, it looks like Canon has figured something out that the others didn't with their most recent shutters.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Oct 6, 2020)

Joules said:


> What is object detection AF?
> 
> Also, I'm curious if those 20 FPS are mechanical. At the moment, it looks like Canon has figured something out that the others didn't with their most recent shutters.



I think it will be mechanical as that would be a reasonable upgrade to the 16 in the D6. Object detection might be something akin to it looking at a scene and seeing there is a tea pot in front and a tea cosy in the back then you can use the joystick to flick between the objects.


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## navastronia (Oct 6, 2020)

I think this specs sheet is fiction, but I'm excited for the camera anyway, whatever it ends up to be, because it will push Canon.


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## StevenA (Oct 6, 2020)

Marketing hyperbole. Nikon is scared to death of their current financial position so they are jumping the shark on announcing a pro series mirrorless to try and keep their fan base from jumping ship.

"Hey look! We're going to release a large R5 equivalent camera a year after Canon released a small R5 camera! Don't leave now!"


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## amorse (Oct 6, 2020)

Well, the specs as a rumour will certainly turn heads, but it may not be out of the realm of possibility. The Rumour's of Sony's pro mirrorless seem to share some of this (i.e. 8K capacity and obviously the sensor resolution to provide that), and with rumours of the R1 not recycling the 1DXIII sensor, I kind of wonder if all three manufacturers are going to make the jump to higher-resolution pro bodies, despite that not being the traditional approach to pro body design (nor a desired approach for some).

It'll be interesting to see if any of this comes true or if it ends up being vapourware.


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## Joules (Oct 6, 2020)

amorse said:


> Well, the specs as a rumour will certainly turn heads, but it may not be out of the realm of possibility.


It sound absolutely possible to me. The specs sound like R5 electronics (45 MP, amazing AF and viewfinder, 20 FPS) and 1DX III mechanics (20 FPS mechanical shutter, durability, form factor, battery). With the size of the flagship DSLR bodies, dealing with the thermals of 8K should be far less problematic.


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## EOS 4 Life (Oct 6, 2020)

StoicalEtcher said:


> Hmmnn... sounds like the Marketing Department have really gone to work on their blurb then...   Will be stellar if Engineering have managed to keep pace.


The specs are pretty plausible if Nikon can catch up to Canon and Sony with autofocus.
This camera would basically be an R5 in a big enough body to avoid overheating.


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## EOS 4 Life (Oct 6, 2020)

amorse said:


> Well, the specs as a rumour will certainly turn heads, but it may not be out of the realm of possibility. The Rumour's of Sony's pro mirrorless seem to share some of this (i.e. 8K capacity and obviously the sensor resolution to provide that), and with rumours of the R1 not recycling the 1DXIII sensor, I kind of wonder if all three manufacturers are going to make the jump to higher-resolution pro bodies, despite that not being the traditional approach to pro body design (nor a desired approach for some).
> 
> It'll be interesting to see if any of this comes true or if it ends up being vapourware.


I do not believe R1 image and video resolution will exceed 6K.
The 1DX III main selling point is the infinite buffer.
Large image sizes make that extremely difficult and for people who take thousands of pictures bigger files cause more problems than they solve.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Oct 6, 2020)

EOS 4 Life said:


> The specs are pretty plausible if Nikon can catch up to Canon and Sony with autofocus.
> This camera would basically be an R5 in a big enough body to avoid overheating.



We'll see next week is Nikon can catch up. Though we keep forgetting Nikon where ahead until the R5 and R6 came out. Even the D6 has a cracking AF system improvement over the D5. 

I don't think they'll be enough between the Nikon and Canon going forward for it to matter all that much. Just pick the one you like best or that has lenses for you.


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## Tom W (Oct 6, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...



Just to be a contrarian, will Nikon be buying sensors from Canon this time? 46 mpx? 8k...


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## AlanF (Oct 6, 2020)

Tom W said:


> Just to be a contrarian, will Nikon be buying sensors from Canon this time? 46 mpx? 8k...


Nikon already uses a 45.7 Mpx sensor in the Z7 and D850. It's as good as the R5 sensor for IQ. It would need to have more phase detectors on it.


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## nchoh (Oct 6, 2020)

New EXPEED processor designed for 8k
NEW. EXPEED processor. 8K... sounds like trouble... just in time for Tokyo Olympics!


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## Deleted member 381342 (Oct 6, 2020)

Tom W said:


> Just to be a contrarian, will Nikon be buying sensors from Canon this time? 46 mpx? 8k...



Unless I am markably mistaken, Nikon design their sensors have have Sony produce them in much the same way Apple and AMD have TSMC produce their chips.


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## AlanF (Oct 6, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> We'll see next week is Nikon can catch up. Though we keep forgetting Nikon where ahead until the R5 and R6 came out. Even the D6 has a cracking AF system improvement over the D5.
> 
> I don't think they'll be enough between the Nikon and Canon going forward for it to matter all that much. Just pick the one you like best or that has lenses for you.


Or have both.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Oct 6, 2020)

AlanF said:


> Or have both.



Indeed, both is probably the way to go. I can bet Canon will have the tilt shifts that whisper to me.


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## zim (Oct 6, 2020)

Wait so the top pro z9 will basically be as good as the then year old R5 but with slightly less good AF? 
Doesn't sound like particularly good marketing or rumour to me


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## StandardLumen (Oct 6, 2020)

If all of these specs are real, it sounds amazing and I would want one. However, if all of this information is real (or maybe even if they're not), I think it's likely that Canon will have a similar camera around the same time.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Oct 6, 2020)

ISO 64 – 25,600 seems a bit off, unless those are the good ISO's. Like if it does ISO 25,600 as good as a R5 then it is a-ok with me.


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## chrisgibbs (Oct 6, 2020)

Nice modern design aesthetic, my tired old eyes don't fare too well with many of these tiny dialed retro mirrorless designs.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Oct 6, 2020)

It suggests it has 1Gb/s ethernet, but for the extra data I would think they would move to 2.5 or 10Gb/s ethernet now that it would have to push significantly larger files than the 20MP that have become the norm.


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## David - Sydney (Oct 6, 2020)

EOS 4 Life said:


> I do not believe R1 image and video resolution will exceed 6K.
> The 1DX III main selling point is the infinite buffer.
> Large image sizes make that extremely difficult and for people who take thousands of pictures bigger files cause more problems than they solve.


My previous guess on the R1 specs had 20fps @ 45mp with limited buffer ie the same as R5. With real time downsampling to ~20mp would mean unlimited buffer at ~20mp similar to current 1DXiii. If it means 2 x Digic X then that also makes sense to reduce hot spot heat generation by reducing individual clock speed and heat spreading through the body.


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## slclick (Oct 6, 2020)

But will it have Marsupial Eye AF?


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## David - Sydney (Oct 6, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> Unless I am markably mistaken, Nikon design their sensors have have Sony produce them in much the same way Apple and AMD have TSMC produce their chips.


If the rumour is correct then Sony is developing the sensor and Nikon is tweaking it for their purposes eg ISO64 base. It wouldn't surprise me that Sony is developing a sensor to compete with the R5 to match 8k30. They heard the rumours and Canon marketing drip feeding the specs over the last ~8 months. Whether Sony/Nikon can have a production camera based on such a new sensor within 18 months is a good question. I expect that Canon really surprised the competition with the headline R5 specs. The key challenge for Sony/Nikon will be to meet the R5 specs but with better thermal management.


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## David - Sydney (Oct 6, 2020)

slclick said:


> But will it have Marsupial Eye AF?


The animal eye AF on my R5 works well on marsupials


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## Deleted member 381342 (Oct 6, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> The key challenge for Sony/Nikon will be to meet the R5 specs but with better thermal management.



Nikon can shove it out with the same thermal management and it would be fine for the 22 seconds of 8k footage I'll take of Princess Arch Mage Willow Hissington the Third before I go back to my iPhone for video.


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## Atlasman (Oct 6, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> My previous guess on the R1 specs had 20fps @ 45mp with limited buffer ie the same as R5. With real time downsampling to ~20mp would mean unlimited buffer at ~20mp similar to current 1DXiii. If it means 2 x Digic X then that also makes sense to reduce hot spot heat generation by reducing individual clock speed and heat spreading through the body.


That’s my believe as well. The downsampling would also enhance ISO performance. The R5 has set the tone for high end mirrorless systems.


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## David - Sydney (Oct 6, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> Nikon can shove it out with the same thermal management and it would be fine for the 22 seconds of 8k footage I'll take of Princess Arch Mage Willow Hissington the Third before I go back to my iPhone for video.


Not sure that 8k/30 video is the prime spec but 33mp frame grabs is likely to be more useful for sports
From my perspective, I use 4k120 much more often for underwater video and has the same overheat issues as 8K30


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## Nelu (Oct 6, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Not sure that 8k/30 video is the prime spec but 33mp frame grabs is likely to be more useful for sports
> From my perspective, I use 4k120 much more often for underwater video and has the same overheat issues as 8K30


Then maybe the water is not cold enough?


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## slclick (Oct 6, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> Nikon can shove it out with the same thermal management and it would be fine for the 22 seconds of 8k footage I'll take of Princess Arch Mage Willow Hissington the Third before I go back to my iPhone for video.


Is that a Skyrim character?


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## Deleted member 381342 (Oct 6, 2020)

slclick said:


> Is that a Skyrim character?



She is one of my pet snakes


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## David - Sydney (Oct 7, 2020)

Nelu said:


> Then maybe the water is not cold enough?


The water temperature is about 15C in Sydney at the moment... quite chilly even with a 5mm wetsuit and vest/hood when spending 2 hours under. Using a partial vacuum (roughly 7" of mercury) in the housing to ensure good sealing means convection is very limited and conduction is limited to the plastic tripod mount. Radiance/radiation from the housing shell would be the main method I think with about 20C temperature differential. I am generally limited to the CFe card size than overheating at the moment. Need to ensure I don't accidentally forget to turn off the record button properly!


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## [email protected] (Oct 7, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> The water temperature is about 15C in Sydney at the moment... quite chilly even with a 5mm wetsuit and vest/hood when spending 2 hours under. Using a partial vacuum (roughly 7" of mercury) in the housing to ensure good sealing means convection is very limited and conduction is limited to the plastic tripod mount. Radiance/radiation from the housing shell would be the main method I think with about 20C temperature differential. I am generally limited to the CFe card size than overheating at the moment. Need to ensure I don't accidentally forget to turn off the record button properly!



You should try the 2TB Delkin, if you haven't already. Cheap for the $/GB. Among the fastest, although not rated for high bitrate video apparently. Did a testing comparison of the brands... https://camnostic.com/cfexpress-cards-comparison/


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## David - Sydney (Oct 7, 2020)

[email protected] said:


> You should try the 2TB Delkin, if you haven't already. Cheap for the $/GB. Among the fastest, although not rated for high bitrate video apparently. Did a testing comparison of the brands... https://camnostic.com/cfexpress-cards-comparison/


A very interesting review! Canon Europe used to have the only official website showing approved CFe cards for the R5 but the link has broken. Canon Asia and Canon US have the same information....
https://asia.canon/en/support/8204818700
https://support.usa.canon.com/kb/index?page=content&id=ART177429&actp=LIST
Delkin isn't in the list and it is interesting that the smaller Sandisk cards are not approved although they are listed on B&H's website as compatible. CFe type B is very new in the market and limited availability (including card readers) was a problem when I bought mine. I got a Sony Tough but not the larger size. My budget was crunched when the R5 pricing was released and I needed to buy a new housing hence the smaller size.
I wonder how A7Siii owners are coping with the even more newer type A cards! They are even more expensive!
The SD card markings are worse with the marking/ratings being very variable... A V30 card can be faster to write than a V90 card


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## Romain (Oct 7, 2020)

Object detection AF will allow Nikon's shooter to have sharp images of the Eiffel tower. Great!..


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## dwarven (Oct 7, 2020)

I'd buy that over the A9 in a heartbeat if I was a pro.


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## Pixel (Oct 7, 2020)

How can they have a body mock-up a year out?


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## Del Paso (Oct 7, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> Indeed, both is probably the way to go. I can bet Canon will have the tilt shifts that whisper to me.


Before switching from film to digital, I checked the offer on the market.
For me, Nikon DSLRs were specs-wise more interesting than the Canons. (As long as you are inexperienced in a new domain, specs seem to matter more than ergonomics or service).
But Canon had the 24 TSE II , so I bought Canon and never regretted it.
Then came the 100-400, my favorite, the TSE 50, 90 and 135...whispering to my ears (still saving for one of those!).
Conclusion: Canon did it right, unlike Nikon, to accompany the R's introduction with high-end lenses, neither soni nor Nikon have in their program.
It's the lenses that really matter (and the guy behind them, of course).
I know: the Nikkor TS 19mm is a wonderful lens too...


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## Deleted member 381342 (Oct 7, 2020)

Del Paso said:


> Before switching from film to digital, I checked the offer on the market.
> For me, Nikon DSLRs were specs-wise more interesting than the Canons. (As long as you are inexperienced in a new domain, specs seem to matter more than ergonomics or service).
> But Canon had the 24 TSE II , so I bought Canon and never regretted it.
> Then came the 100-400, my favorite, the TSE 50, 90 and 135...whispering to my ears (still saving for one of those!).
> ...



Nikon have the 500mm f/5.6 PF, which is at the moment a lens that can have its own body as nothing competes with it. Canon have a whole host of tilt shifts and the MPE65 which all warrant a Canon body. I mean it would be nice to go all in on Canon or all in on Nikon, but then I always have two bodies too. If you have a 600mm f/4.0 on your Canon R1 with a 2x converter, then a 500mm f/5.6 on a Z6 becomes a invaluable little extra if the subject gets too close or a wee fox gets curious. 

For me I have been on Canon EF for over a decade. Nikon's Z mount and Z lenses look better for mirrorless and they have been giving wildlife shooters attention, so I have been seriously considering giving Nikon the decade then in 2030 maybe it'll be Sony or Fujifilm medium format mirrorless with 800mm lenses.


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## nighthawk82 (Oct 7, 2020)

Ummm... so... save for a couple of small details (ex. dual CFX), this is EOS R5 specs for $7000? If this is the best Nikon can offer in their top of the range pro mirrorless flagship, Canon really has the chance to take a massive lead with the R1.


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## Skyscraperfan (Oct 7, 2020)

I would prefer the same body and the same specs, but a much lower resolution.


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## Tremotino (Oct 7, 2020)

Pixel said:


> How can they have a body mock-up a year out?


It's a rendering, not a mock-up


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## Jack Douglas (Oct 7, 2020)

Someone clue me in. Why can't a 1 series camera have two resolution modes so that those who don't like high MP photos can have their wish and the rest of us can have the benefit of those extra pixels? The R5 finally seems to have more 1 level features. Can someone who shoots with both a 1DX3 and the R5 comment on what features the R5 lacks that are very useful, such as touch sensitive AF point point movement. Is there a _significant_ downside to not having X type AF points?

Jack


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## Deleted member 381342 (Oct 7, 2020)

nighthawk82 said:


> Ummm... so... save for a couple of small details (ex. dual CFX), this is EOS R5 specs for $7000? If this is the best Nikon can offer in their top of the range pro mirrorless flagship, Canon really has the chance to take a massive lead with the R1.



Save for a couple of small details, how does the 1DxIII differ from the R6.

I am sorry to sound a big picky here but the R5 and the Z9 will never compete with each other. The R1 will compete with the Z9 and these bodies could have the exact same sensor as the R5 but be completely different animals to handle. At the very least you’ll be able to take a Z9 and R1 to places the R5 will stop functioning.


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## Skyscraperfan (Oct 7, 2020)

Jack Douglas said:


> Someone clue me in. Why can't a 1 series camera have two resolution modes so that those who don't like high MP photos can have their wish and the rest of us can have the benefit of those extra pixels?



That is a fake resolution then. It would always put me into the difficult decision to decide if I take a high resolution photo, because in a certain situation noise, diffraction and other problems of a high resolution might not spoil the photo too badly, while in other situations some of those downsides will clearly be visible. So you will likely end up and always choose the highest resolution and still downsample it when needed. I prefer having the same "target resolution" at all photos that gives me some flexibility in situations with really good light. 

Diffraction is a good example of what I mean. My 18 megapixel full frame camera allows me to use up to f/11 until diffraction becomes visible. With 45 megapixels this limit is at 7.1. So for a higher sharpness of the area in focus a high megapixel camera provides, I would have to sacrifice some depth of field. The same problem appears with moving subjects. More megapixels force me to use an even shorter exposure to avoid motion blur when having more megapixels.

Instagram is quite interesting in that regard. Instagram photos have maximum dimension of 1080x1350 pixels. So if I take a photo only for Instagram - which sometimes happens - I have this resolution in mind and for example take a handheld photo which is sharp at 1080x1350, but would look blur in a high resolution. When I take photos with 18 megapixels, I have 18 megapixels in mind and do not want to care about how that photo could look in 45 megapixels. 

I can understand though that other photographers have 45 megapixels in mind while taking a photo. It would not be too difficult for Canon or Nikon to offer multiple options like Sony does with its A7 series. Canon did that many years ago with the 1D and 1Ds series, were the 1D sensor even was smaller (APS-H) altough it was in the ame body.


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## KristinnKr (Oct 7, 2020)

Lots of lack of understanding with regards to resolution in this thread. The sensor MP count in a camera is what is called in information theory the *sampling frequency*. Basically it's the (spatial) frequency at which the signal (i.e. the light focused by the lens) is sampled. It is a 100% truth that *higher sampling frequency ALWAYS produces a more accurate sampling of the signal*. While the difference is larger the higher the frequencies that are present in the signal are, it doesn't matter how low frequencies are present in the signal, there is always a difference.

And you most certainly aren't constricted to smaller apertures or higher shutter speeds. With a higher sampling frequency (i.e. more megapixels) you can *always* take the same picture with the same parameters and get a more accurate sampling (i.e. sharper image).


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## nighthawk82 (Oct 7, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> Save for a couple of small details, how does the 1DxIII differ from the R6.
> 
> I am sorry to sound a big picky here but the R5 and the Z9 will never compete with each other. The R1 will compete with the Z9 and these bodies could have the exact same sensor as the R5 but be completely different animals to handle. At the very least you’ll be able to take a Z9 and R1 to places the R5 will stop functioning.


I would prefer comparing apples to apples, so let's take the Nikon D5 vs the Canon 5D4, which is a direct analogy with Nikon Z9 vs Canon R5. Massive differences there, most notably the speed (12fps vs 7fps) and resolution (or lack of, in exchange for low light noise performance). So, once again, save for a couple of minor details (such as being able to record 8K for 30, or 60 or 120 or forever minutes instead of 20, something which at this point we are assuming!), this is exactly R5 specs, except it costs $7000. I do agree there's many other specs which are not revealed yet, but till now it's looking like an R5 MAYBE with better heat management and MAYBE with a miniscule AF advantage when using Eye AF. If Nikon aimed the Z9 at the R1, they fell very short and hit the R5 instead. Let's wait and see what the R1 offers. As I said, Canon clearly have the opportunity to take the definitive lead


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## Deleted member 381342 (Oct 7, 2020)

nighthawk82 said:


> I would prefer comparing apples to apples, so let's take the Nikon D5 vs the Canon 5D4, which is a direct analogy with Nikon Z9 vs Canon R5. Massive differences there, most notably the speed (12fps vs 7fps) and resolution (or lack of, in exchange for low light noise performance). So, once again, save for a couple of minor details (such as being able to record 8K for 30, or 60 or 120 or forever minutes instead of 20, something which at this point we are assuming!), this is exactly R5 specs, except it costs $7000. I do agree there's many other specs which are not revealed yet, but till now it's looking like an R5 MAYBE with better heat management and MAYBE with a miniscule AF advantage when using Eye AF. If Nikon aimed the Z9 at the R1, they fell very short and hit the R5 instead. Let's wait and see what the R1 offers. As I said, Canon clearly have the opportunity to take the definitive lead



I can see where you are going however the R6 and 1DX Mark 3 are far more comparable than the D5 and 5D4. The R6 has the same sensor as the 1DX3 and it does 20FPS and arguably has better AF. However, the R6 is not a 1D body and doesn't compete with it. Like the R5 won't compete with the Z9 and R1.


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## nighthawk82 (Oct 7, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> I can see where you are going however the R6 and 1DX Mark 3 are far more comparable than the D5 and 5D4. The R6 has the same sensor as the 1DX3 and it does 20FPS and arguably has better AF. However, the R6 is not a 1D body and doesn't compete with it. Like the R5 won't compete with the Z9 and R1.


Yea, my point was, if the R5 won't compete with the Z9, in what way will that be (to justify the $3200 extra cost)? Because from these specs there is nothing that sets them apart (unlike when comparing the 1DX2/D5 to the 5D4). Ok I can presume battery life will be better, overheating more controlled (hopefully!) and probably being able to survive a direct bomb hit from an F-35. Previously, the gap between the 5D and 1DX range was more than just peripheral advantages. There was speed, cutting edge AF (which usually ended up in the NEXT generation 5D camera), noise performance, and other specs (ex. in the case of the 1DX2 vs 5D4, there was 4k60 which the 5D4 didn't have), in addition to the being able to survive a bomb blast. Unless the AF is truly out of this world, I still can't figure out where the $3200 difference is justified. But maybe it's just me. Hopefully the R1 will offer some more traditional spec advantages vs the R5 (such as 30fps stills maybe, at which point it becomes a video decomposed into individual still RAW files)


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## Deleted member 381342 (Oct 7, 2020)

nighthawk82 said:


> Yea, my point was, if the R5 won't compete with the Z9, in what way will that be (to justify the $3200 extra cost)? Because from these specs there is nothing that sets them apart (unlike when comparing the 1DX2/D5 to the 5D4). Ok I can presume battery life will be better, overheating more controlled (hopefully!) and probably being able to survive a direct bomb hit from an F-35. Previously, the gap between the 5D and 1DX range was more than just peripheral advantages. There was speed, cutting edge AF (which usually ended up in the NEXT generation 5D camera), noise performance, and other specs (ex. in the case of the 1DX2 vs 5D4, there was 4k60 which the 5D4 didn't have), in addition to the being able to survive a bomb blast. Unless the AF is truly out of this world, I still can't figure out where the $3200 difference is justified. But maybe it's just me. Hopefully the R1 will offer some more traditional spec advantages vs the R5 (such as 30fps stills maybe, at which point it becomes a video decomposed into individual still RAW files)



Well the Z9 and R1 will have a few advantages even if they use 45MP sensors:

Faster focus on some super tele lenses (If they follow the 1DX line) due to the higher volt battery pushing the AF motor at full speed.
Professional weather sealing (A 1 series and Dx body will get the shot when a 5 series or D8xx will have stopped)
Backlit buttons
2.5 Gbps ethernet
20FPS mechanical and electrical with 14bit (R5 goes down to 12bit and 13bit)
You can use it them as a weapon
Dual CF Express instead of compromising with 1 CF Express and 1 SD
Noise performance (cooler system, faster dual processors)
Dedicated AF processor
Instant on EVF
Faster boot up time (this was a selling point of the early pro cameras where's a non pro body was ok to boot in 1-3 seconds). EVF responsiveness and startup time is going to be a big seller of the Z9, Z9II, R1, and R1II. It'll be the version 3 of these cameras before we see this as just being the expectation. It could even be the 16m dot EVF that is 'needed' for pro sports.
Then all the buttons and joypads and ergonomics
0 - 45°C, 85% or less humidity vs 1 – 40 °C, 85% or less humidity
Maybe a global shutter and 1/16000 shutter speed
Maybe faster flash sync

The reason I bring the R6 and 1DXIII up is they share the exact same sensor but you are not going to take a R6 to places you need a 1DXIII. Even if they both get the exact same image and comparable FPS. The pro bodies have often had arguably worse sensors than the consumer of the same generation, the 5DIII put out better images and comparable low light to the 1DX. The R5 12/20 fps(14, 13, 12bit and with the battery being charged higher enough) isn't going to match a R1 or Z9 doing 20fps 14bit right down till the battery is empty.


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## Franklyok (Oct 7, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> Well the Z9 and R1 will have a few advantages even if they use 45MP sensors:
> 
> Maybe a global shutter and 1/16000 shutter speed



I do not expect global shutter. May be faster faster sensor readout. That would mean more video fps and less rolling shutter with electronic shutter.


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## [email protected] (Oct 7, 2020)

Seems possible and very good specs for their flagship ML FF but Canon and Sony will have similar / in certain places better specs. With the excellent releases from Canon R5 and R6, along with good specs in forthcoming Z6 and Z7 should get more users to transitioned from DSLR to ML locking people into one of the top 3 ML systems for good, all ML FF from the top 3 are superb now and you can't go wrong with either manufacturer; be it Sony, Canon or Nikon.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Oct 7, 2020)

Franklyok said:


> I do not expect global shutter. May be faster faster sensor readout. That would mean more video fps and less rolling shutter with electronic shutter.



I am not expecting it ether, but it is something that Nikon, Canon, and likely even Sony will be working on. A global electronic shutter would allow for full silent shooting without compromise and jelly effects. The processing grunt required would be quite a bit past the R5. But thats why a R1 and Z9 have the big bodies for more processors.


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## Famateur (Oct 7, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> ISO 64 – 25,600 seems a bit off, unless those are the good ISO's. Like if it does ISO 25,600 as good as a R5 then it is a-ok with me.



This was the spec that seemed weird to me, too. R5 goes to 51,200 at 45MP as an upper-mid-tier Canon mirrorless body. It seems odd for the tippy-top-tier Nikon mirrorless body to have a stop poorer low-light performance in 2021 (even if it is a bit better at the low end of the range).

Agreed -- if the Z9 25,600 is on par with the R5 25,600, then no problem...


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## Deleted member 381342 (Oct 7, 2020)

Famateur said:


> This was the spec that seemed weird to me, too. R5 goes to 51,200 at 45MP as an upper-mid-tier Canon mirrorless body. It seems odd for the tippy-top-tier Nikon mirrorless body to have a stop poorer low-light performance in 2021 (even if it is a bit better at the low end of the range).
> 
> Agreed -- if the Z9 25,600 is on par with the R5 25,600, then no problem...



Aye and the Z7/D850 processor can go higher I am sure. There are quite comparable if a little sharper than the R5 sensor due to the lack of AA filter I hear. Though I really expect everyones 45MP sensor of a given generation is going to be comparable. I do find Nikon colours look nicer for wildlife and Canon's look better for people. But I am sure a I can wiggle that round in Capture One to make ether match up. When I show off a picture from my Z6 or 5DII, no one ever 100% zoomed in to check the pixel level, nor commented that the colours looked right or wrong.

Edit: The Z7 is listed as 64-25,600 ISO so this might be where this spec is coming from, perhaps some of it is confused with the Z7II. I don't expect them to re-release the Z7II/Z7/D850 sensor in 2021, even if it is a cracker.


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## s66 (Oct 7, 2020)

I note Nikon's support of GPS, let's hope it's in-body unlike the crap Canon keeps putting in their recent models.


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## bbasiaga (Oct 7, 2020)

Jack Douglas said:


> Someone clue me in. Why can't a 1 series camera have two resolution modes so that those who don't like high MP photos can have their wish and the rest of us can have the benefit of those extra pixels? The R5 finally seems to have more 1 level features. Can someone who shoots with both a 1DX3 and the R5 comment on what features the R5 lacks that are very useful, such as touch sensitive AF point point movement. Is there a _significant_ downside to not having X type AF points?
> 
> Jack


To your last question, I think the DPAF on the R5 and live view mode on the 1DX III is significantly better at focusing than even the best x type AF points. I could be wrong, but that's my impression after reading a bunch of stuff about AF performance. I think it comes down to the fact that the image sensor itself gets more light, has more resolution and more powerful processor connected than the dedicated AF sensors in DSLRs. So while we've seen DSLRs get very good at AF, including basic tracking - we're seeing even more basic mirrorless stuff capable of identifying and tracking eyes, faces, and other objects. This performance capability seems to be one big item in favor of mirrorless as the future over DSLRs. 

-Brian


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## djack41 (Oct 7, 2020)

Another Nikon promise.


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## jvillain (Oct 7, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> It suggests it has 1Gb/s ethernet, but for the extra data I would think they would move to 2.5 or 10Gb/s ethernet now that it would have to push significantly larger files than the 20MP that have become the norm.



Once you go past 1Gb the amount of heat the nixc produces and the power to drive the chip become huge. Have a look at the heat sync on this thing.








XG-C100C｜｜ASUS USA







www.asus.com





Beyond that the number of people in the world that have the ability to actually use 10Gb in that they have the networking and disk subsystems that can utilize it are incredably small. I am not convinced this will be ethernet. I suspect it will be one of the more modern versions of wifi.


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## MiJax (Oct 7, 2020)

The body is only well spec'ed if you don't account for any improvement on Canon's 1DX replacement, and obviously that is highly unlikely. What I do find interesting is them throwing away common practices of low megapixel Sports/PJ bodies. 

That said, if true... that makes the Sony A9x rumor a little more viable. With Nikon and Sony both pushing their Sports/PJ bodies to 50MP, I would assume they have intel that Canon plans to do the same. With R1 test bodies rumored to be out in mid testing now, its not unthinkable. 

Interesting times.


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## degos (Oct 7, 2020)

nighthawk82 said:


> Canon really has the chance to take a massive lead with the R1.



Canon won't do anything too risky with the R1. Traditional 1D reliability and conservatism, but even more of the latter than usual due to the need to convince 1D users than the MILC can deliver the goods when shooting 2000 frames per day.

I'd reckon 45MP, no IBIS, 20FPS.


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## arbitrage (Oct 7, 2020)

2021 looks like a year for the $6K+ flagships....considering I am still shooting all three systems to some extent it does not look like a good year financially for me


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## Deleted member 381342 (Oct 7, 2020)

jvillain said:


> Once you go past 1Gb the amount of heat the nixc produces and the power to drive the chip become huge. Have a look at the heat sync on this thing.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



2.5 Gb has worked its way down as a good compromise. It doesn't need the massive head spreaders anymore and even the 10Gb in my Mac mini canny be all that big. I think we will see 2.5 Gb sooner than later, it is good enough and doesn't require recabling.






2.5 Gigabit Ethernet PCI-e x1 Network Card


SD-PEX24065,ethernet card; 2.5 gigabit ethernet; 2.5gb switch; 2.5gbe switch; ethernet adapter; gigabit ethernet; 2.5gb ethernet; 2.5gb ethernet card; 2.5 gigabit ethernet card; 2.5gb network card; 2.5gbe; 2.5gb nic; 2.5 gigabit switch; gigabit ethernet c




www.sybausa.com


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## David - Sydney (Oct 7, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> Aye and the Z7/D850 processor can go higher I am sure. There are quite comparable if a little sharper than the R5 sensor due to the lack of AA filter I hear.


Isn't an AA filter mandatory for controlling moire for video? The 5DSR was a specialist landscape (in my opinion) on this basis.
Can a hybrid still/video truly have no AA filter?


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## flip314 (Oct 8, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Isn't an AA filter mandatory for controlling moire for video? The 5DSR was a specialist landscape (in my opinion) on this basis.
> Can a hybrid still/video truly have no AA filter?



That's not aliasing, that's the extra sharpness you get from throwing away the _completely useless_ AA filter! Canon only adds it to cripple their cameras so that they can re-sell you a version without it later.


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## ethanz (Oct 8, 2020)

arbitrage said:


> 2021 looks like a year for the $6K+ flagships....considering I am still shooting all three systems to some extent it does not look like a good year financially for me



Just stick with Canon and you'll save the money  I'm sure you will still get great pictures.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Oct 8, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Isn't an AA filter mandatory for controlling moire for video? The 5DSR was a specialist landscape (in my opinion) on this basis.
> Can a hybrid still/video truly have no AA filter?



Wouldn’t know. I only do stills shooting and only give the video specs the most cursory glance. If I was going to take a video, I use use my phone.


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## AlanF (Oct 8, 2020)

Skyscraperfan said:


> Diffraction is a good example of what I mean. My 18 megapixel full frame camera allows me to use up to f/11 until diffraction becomes visible. With 45 megapixels this limit is at 7.1. So for a higher sharpness of the area in focus a high megapixel camera provides, I would have to sacrifice some depth of field. The same problem appears with moving subjects. More megapixels force me to use an even shorter exposure to avoid motion blur when having more megapixels.



If you output to the same size of printing or viewing, diffraction will be the same for the high resolution and low resolution sensors and you will have the same depth of field. Similar arguments apply to many of discussions of low vs high resolution sensors, such as noise, DR, shake, movement etc - they will appear worse for the high density sensor only when you enlarge it more than the low density sensor's image.


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## degos (Oct 8, 2020)

Romain said:


> Object detection AF will allow Nikon's shooter to have sharp images of the Eiffel tower. Great!..



At least they're considering other use-cases beyond eye detection, which is 99% irrelevant to me.


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## BeenThere (Oct 8, 2020)

A year is a lot of Canon sales to wait.


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## BeenThere (Oct 8, 2020)

degos said:


> At least they're considering other use-cases beyond eye detection, which is 99% irrelevant to me.


Aaah, tree detection AF.


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## Jack Douglas (Oct 8, 2020)

BeenThere said:


> Aaah, tree detection AF.
> [/QUOTE
> 
> This thought seems to lead back to the old eye following AF, which would seem to eliminate all other modes.
> ...


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## Iwasaki (Oct 8, 2020)

Kinda like to see less of Nikon over here  

Kinda triggers me 

This is the camera I shot for 20 years but the company left me, the professional, behind.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Oct 8, 2020)

Iwasaki said:


> Kinda like to see less of Nikon over here
> 
> Kinda triggers me
> 
> This is the camera I shot for 20 years but the company left me, the professional, behind.



Oh a whole this forum tends too show interest in all brands and leaves the usual Xbox vs Playstation stuff out of it.


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## AlanF (Oct 8, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> Oh a whole this forum tends too show interest in all brands and leaves the usual Xbox vs Playstation stuff out of it.


He has a high proportion of anti-Nikon stuff in his posts. It's about as useful as we get from the anti-Canon trolls.


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## Bert63 (Oct 9, 2020)

What? No yacht detection? Nikon is *******..


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## fox40phil (Oct 9, 2020)

Guys, have you seen the event for the upcoming Z7II & Z6 II?!?! 14th of October!

no news about them here?


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## SteveC (Oct 9, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> What? No yacht detection? Nikon is *******..



Yacht detection is known as Yacht-See and involves five cubes with little white dots on the faces.


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## Mr Majestyk (Oct 9, 2020)

Nothing in those specs is outlandish at all, easily achievable if they have the will. 20fps @ 46MP gee that sounds familiar. Dual CFExpress, gee that sounds familiar, 8K30p gee that sounds familiar.


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## Bert63 (Oct 9, 2020)

fox40phil said:


> Guys, have you seen the event for the upcoming Z7II & Z6 II?!?! 14th of October!
> 
> no news about them here?



More cameras that would produce great photos if only you cold get them to focus reliably..


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## Deleted member 381342 (Oct 9, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> More cameras that would produce great photos if only you cold get them to focus reliably..



Huh? What on earth is that to do with the mark 2 cameras? In my shots on the Z6 that are all wildlife I have never had so many sharp in perfect focus shots before. Only about 100 out of 18000 has missed focus. I am usually struggling to pick what pose of the wee critter I want to keep.

The Nikon Z only lack the CPU grunt to make the fancy eye af and tracking box modes reliable in the real world and that’s what the mark 2 seem to be addressing. All the traditional af modes are fast and reliable and get the shot.


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## AlanF (Oct 9, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> Huh? What on earth is that to do with the mark 2 cameras? In my shots on the Z6 that are all wildlife I have never had so many sharp in perfect focus shots before. Only about 100 out of 18000 has missed focus. I am usually struggling to pick what pose of the wee critter I want to keep.
> 
> The Nikon Z only lack the CPU grunt to make the fancy eye af and tracking box modes reliable in the real world and that’s what the mark 2 seem to be addressing. All the traditional af modes are fast and reliable and get the shot.


I don't think Bert is complaining in general about the AF of the first generation mirrorless from Nikon and Canon - they are great for static shots or easy birds in flight. He, unlike you, is a bird photographer, and they are not great for more demanding bird action photography - good DSLRs beat them hands down for flight photography. The new R5 is a real breakthrough. It's competing with the Nikon D500 and D850 for the action shots and is great for finding and tracking small animals and birds running around on the ground. As you imply, the extra grunt from a second or newer processor will make them fine for BIF or insects in flight.


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## Bert63 (Oct 9, 2020)

AlanF said:


> I don't think Bert is complaining in general about the AF of the first generation mirrorless from Nikon and Canon - they are great for static shots or easy birds in flight. He, unlike you, is a bird photographer, and they are not great for more demanding bird action photography - good DSLRs beat them hands down for flight photography. The new R5 is a real breakthrough. It's competing with the Nikon D500 and D850 for the action shots and is great for finding and tracking small animals and birds running around on the ground. As you imply, the extra grunt from a second or newer processor will make them fine for BIF or insects in flight.




^What he said, and far more eloquently than I did.


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## jvillain (Oct 9, 2020)

Codebunny said:


> 2.5 Gb has worked its way down as a good compromise. It doesn't need the massive head spreaders anymore and even the 10Gb in my Mac mini canny be all that big. I think we will see 2.5 Gb sooner than later, it is good enough and doesn't require recabling.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Say they can get 2.5Gb in with out heat and power issues, is the disk system in this camera fast enough to feed 2.5Gb?


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## Deleted member 381342 (Oct 9, 2020)

jvillain said:


> Say they can get 2.5Gb in with out heat and power issues, is the disk system in this camera fast enough to feed 2.5Gb?



Aye, CF Express read is 1700 MB/s so it'll be a long time before that is the bottle neck on a system that can only transfer 2500 Mbps. The controller may be the limiter they're in read speed.

1700 MB/s is 13,600 Mb/s and ethernet is 2500 Mb/s. The only way to offload the data at full speed would be to install a TB3 port and tether via some TB3 fibre cable... that'll cost more than every piece off camera equipment in the stadium.

And aye as it stands 2.5 Gigabit ethernet is less or equal heat to 1 Gigabit at the moment and equal or less power, depending on the age of the chip. It is making its way into just about everything as it is good enough of an improvement without needing to spend potentially $???????????'s on 10 Gigabit, cable upgrades and the reassuringly expensive switches.


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## Skyscraperfan (Oct 10, 2020)

AlanF said:


> If you output to the same size of printing or viewing, diffraction will be the same for the high resolution and low resolution sensors and you will have the same depth of field. Similar arguments apply to many of discussions of low vs high resolution sensors, such as noise, DR, shake, movement etc - they will appear worse for the high density sensor only when you enlarge it more than the low density sensor's image.



If diffraction occurs, more megapixels just mean enlarging a photo without any sharpness benefit. It reminds me of a "digital zoom". If I have more megapixels, I do not want to lower the resolution afterwards. It very much turns me off to see a high resultion image at 100% zoom and noticing all those imperfections in an image that show me that the resolution was just to high for the circumstances the photo was shot in. 

An image should have the perfect sharpness, if you look at it at 100% zoom on a screen with a resolution that still allows you to see individual pixels.


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## Petrus (Oct 13, 2020)

Nikon is not Canon. This site is Canonrumors...


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