# No Optimal Option for 7D Standard Zoom



## darth mollusk (May 25, 2012)

I shoot with a 7D and have a wide gap between my lenses: the Tokina 11-16 2.8 (primarily for nature landscapes) and the Sigma 120-300 2.8 OS (primarily for wildlife). I would like a zoom to fill the gap. not really worried so much about the long end (from 50 - 120), more the wide end for general use and landscape.

Requirements: 
Weather Sealed - as I find myself consistently shooting in tough conditions: rain, salt spray etc.
Speed - should be a 2.8 considering that I shoot in low light environments often (forest, twilight etc.)
Great IQ - should keep up with the two lenses I already own.
Cost - Spending 2K seems really really excessive.

Conclusion:
Canon ef-s 17-55: great IQ and speed, but spending $1000 on a plastic lens seems wrong.
Canon ef 17-40L: great build quality and IQ, but slower than desired.
Canon ef 24-70 2.8L II: $2,300 - ouch

What do you think - are there other options I should consider? Would Canon benefit by improving the build quality of its best ef-s lenses (the 10-22 and 17-55)? I wish they would!


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## drjlo (May 25, 2012)

Well, if you are unwilling to spend $2300 for Canon 24-70 II, then I personally would look at the new Tamron 24-70 f/2.8 VC.

http://www.ephotozine.com/article/tamron-sp-24-70mm-f-2-8-vc-usd-lens-review-19056


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## darth mollusk (May 25, 2012)

The Tamron 24-70 has crossed my mind - it appears that the preliminary tests suggest decent IQ. The MTF results show a distinct drop-off at 2.8 though - if that's the case I might as well buy a slower lens really. I owned the Canon 70-300 IS (non L) - it was unfortunately soft at 300 and made it feel somewhat pointless to have that range, considering shots at 300 more often than not didn't have decent quality. Would be sad to have a 2.8 that was sharp right through, except at 2.8. Will have to wait for a few more reviews before that decision is made.


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## briansquibb (May 25, 2012)

24-105 f/4 is an obvious choice and comes cheap bought used


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## darth mollusk (May 25, 2012)

Thanks Brian - I will check it out and keep a lookout for an opportunity to pick that lens up second hand. It would certainly fill the gap nicely (though the speed is still missing from the equation).


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## briansquibb (May 26, 2012)

darth mollusk said:


> Thanks Brian - I will check it out and keep a lookout for an opportunity to pick that lens up second hand. It would certainly fill the gap nicely (though the speed is still missing from the equation).



It is a very good lens - taken a couple of weeks ago. 

Camera Model: Canon EOS-1D Mark IV
Image Date: 2012-05-19 14:03:04 +0100
Focal Length: 105.0mm
Aperture: f/11.0
Exposure Time: 0.0031 s (1/320)
ISO equiv: 100
Exposure Bias: -0.67 EV


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 26, 2012)

darth mollusk said:


> I shoot with a 7D and have a wide gap between my lenses: the Tokina 11-16 2.8 (primarily for nature landscapes) and the Sigma 120-300 2.8 OS (primarily for wildlife). I would like a zoom to fill the gap.
> 
> Requirements:
> Weather Sealed - as I find myself consistently shooting in tough conditions: rain, salt spray etc.
> ...


 
You are not going to find a 17-120-mm f/2.8 lens for any price, you might want to come up with a comprehensive plan to get where you want to be.

Here are some things to think about before you make a decision. 

Sometimes we want to go out and buy the best lens for our money and then find out that we did not plan for a complete system, and find ourselves in a quandry, because the missing piece does not exist.

The 7D is not weather sealed at the lens mount where it counts. Putting a weather sealed lens on a non weather sealed camera may lead to disappointment because water will get in at the lens mount.

The 7D is not a low light camera, you will struggle in low light with a f/2.8 lens, even with f/1.4.

APS-C sensors are not the best at wide angles, but excell at telephoto. 

I'd recommend that a person plan a system based on their shooting needs, and migrate one piece at a time to it. 

Everything is a compromise, with each choice, you will give up something while you also gain something, so give each item a priority and give weight to that in your selection.


Here is my interpretation of the best bodies for some of the uses you mentioned. Its just my opinion. Lens selection is best made in conjunction with a body selection.



Weather Resistant Bodies when used with weather resistant lens

1D X ($7K)

1D MK III (APS-H ~ $2K)

1Ds MK II (FF ~2K)

1D MK IV (APS-H ~3500)


Best bodies for Telephoto

1D MK IV

1D MK III

7D

60D


Best Bodies for Low light

1D X

5D MK III

1DS MK III

1Ds MK II


Best Bodies for landscapes

5D MK III

1Ds MK III

5D MK II

1D X

1Ds MK II


There is no one camera that is in all 4 lists, so you might look at bodies that are in two or three of the best categories depending on your priorities, and your pocketbook.

Good luck.


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## bdunbar79 (May 26, 2012)

Why don't you just get a 24-70mm f/2.8L I? Well, I guess that price is up there too...


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## darth mollusk (May 26, 2012)

[\quote]

Everything is a compromise, with each choice, you will give up something while you also gain something, so give each item a priority and give weight to that in your selection.

[/quote]

Agreed - my primary focus is wildlife, consequently the choice to go with the 7D. I can't justify the costs to shoot with a full frame and get the range desired at this point (perhaps one day - but by then we'll all be shooting with mirrorless cameras and some crazy new glass that changes the game). Anyway - I see your point about creating a plan moving towards it. I bought the 7D with a 300 2.8 in mind, that was my priority. Now I'm compromising on the mid-range, but would still like some speed and decent build quality. Thanks for the breakdown - also interesting points regarding the 7D weather sealing and low light.

Brian: that's a brilliant shot! The 24-105 is looking pretty good at this point.

Bdunbar79: the 24-70 2.8 I has also crossed my mind - though it's discontinued now and I imagine second hand prices will remain relatively high considering the cost of the 24-70 2.8 II


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 26, 2012)

darth mollusk said:


> [\quote]
> 
> Everything is a compromise, with each choice, you will give up something while you also gain something, so give each item a priority and give weight to that in your selection.



Agreed - my primary focus is wildlife, consequently the choice to go with the 7D. I can't justify the costs to shoot with a full frame and get the range desired at this point (perhaps one day - but by then we'll all be shooting with mirrorless cameras and some crazy new glass that changes the game). Anyway - I see your point about creating a plan moving towards it. I bought the 7D with a 300 2.8 in mind, that was my priority. Now I'm compromising on the mid-range, but would still like some speed and decent build quality. Thanks for the breakdown - also interesting points regarding the 7D weather sealing and low light.

Brian: that's a brilliant shot! The 24-105 is looking pretty good at this point.

Bdunbar79: the 24-70 2.8 I has also crossed my mind - though it's discontinued now and I imagine second hand prices will remain relatively high considering the cost of the 24-70 2.8 II


The 24-105mmL is a great lens on the 7D, but not f/2.8 and not really wide enough. Pair it with the 10-22mm EF-s, and it will fit pretty well.

I'd pass on the 24-70 mk1, I had five of them that were just ok, but not worth the price. The 17-55mm EF-s is much better on a crop, but it still leaves a gaping hole between 55 and 120mm.


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## RC (May 26, 2012)

I think the 24-105 is your closest bet. Lose 1 stop and gain IS seems like a reasonable trade off for your requirements.


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## robbymack (May 26, 2012)

Since you have a tokina and a sigma you're obviously not opposed to 3rd party, price seems to be a concern so why not the tamron 17-50 2.8 non is version, then fill in the gaps with a 85 1.8 and a 100 macro or 135l. You could manage all 3 under 2k if you bought used. that gives you speed in the primes and a good walk around zoom.


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## darth mollusk (May 26, 2012)

robbymack said:


> Since you have a tokina and a sigma you're obviously not opposed to 3rd party, price seems to be a concern so why not the tamron 17-50 2.8 non is version, then fill in the gaps with a 85 1.8 and a 100 macro or 135l. You could manage all 3 under 2k if you bought used. that gives you speed in the primes and a good walk around zoom.



I hear you - the 100mm macro is definitely on the list. At this point I think the zoom is a toss up between the best optical/speed option (the ef-s 17-55 2.8 ) and the best optical/build option (as RC suggested: the 24-105) - deciding between speed and build quality is painful. I'm not really worried about the gap between 55 and 100 as it's likely the least utilized focal range for nature landscapes and wildlife. I hadn't thought of the non IS Tamron - will give it a look (see above for my comment on the new 24-70 IS... )


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## crasher8 (May 26, 2012)

5 bad 24-70's? Wow, I have one good one. This is the first lens that came to my mind to fill the gap. There are PLENTY out there new.


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## lol (May 26, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> The 7D is not weather sealed at the lens mount where it counts. Putting a weather sealed lens on a non weather sealed camera may lead to disappointment because water will get in at the lens mount.



Care to clarify on the mount sealing? Isn't that what the rubber ring on the lens' mount for? Even with so called unsealed lenses, I've never had water ingress at the mount since it appears mechanical tolerances are tight enough to prevent it. And this is with enough rain to make the 100-400L itself unusable after a while.

As a more general point, how water resistant do things really need to be? With the 7D, I often use it unprotected in the rain. The only thing I find failing in the rain is the joystick on the back, which fixes itself when dried out. Even then, it usually takes a couple hours of rain exposure before enough water gets in to do that.

For fun, here is a somewhat extreme test on a 7D...


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## DianeK (May 26, 2012)

If you are mostly shooting outdoors, have you considered the EFS 15-85? I find it a very handy and high IQ lens and would fill your gap quite nicely. It can be had used for around $550-600.
Diane


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## darth mollusk (May 26, 2012)

love that video! I knew the 7D was tough, just not that tough. personally I don't plan on drowning, freezing and setting mine on fire any time soon - but you're right, it can take some serious rain without much worry. living in vancouver this is a prerequisite if you want to shoot year round. so far I have had no issues, and I certainly don't hesitate to use it in less than ideal conditions. I don't doubt that the 1 series have better weather sealing (as they're designed) but the 7D appears to be tough enough for this amateur on the wet coast.



DianeK said:


> If you are mostly shooting outdoors, have you considered the EFS 15-85? I find it a very handy and high IQ lens and would fill your gap quite nicely. It can be had used for around $550-600.
> Diane



I have - nearly bought it in fact, but I shoot in so many low light situations, and use 2.8 on both my other lenses often enough that I figured I need the speed. it's a great lens for IQ but looses on both the speed and build. to bad - because you're right, it fits the gap better than anything else (with the exception perhaps of the 24-105).


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## twdi (May 26, 2012)

Because you live in vancouver...
I'm have a trip planned over vancouver island till the alaskan borden (hyder).

Would you miss the 1.6 facto of your 7d when you had a 5DmkII?
Which camera and lenses would you advise for your amazing place to life  ?


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## darth mollusk (May 26, 2012)

twdi said:


> Because you live in vancouver...
> I'm have a trip planned over vancouver island till the alaskan borden (hyder).
> 
> Would you miss the 1.6 facto of your 7d when you had a 5DmkII?
> Which camera and lenses would you advise for your amazing place to life  ?



wildlife is my passion - so I would certainly miss the 1.6 (are you listening canon? don't ever think that people don't want another high end crop body). if I could afford a 500mm f4 then I would go full frame - but that's not going to happen soon. the 7D is a great body to have here - a wide angle for landscapes and telephoto for wildlife cover most of what I shoot outdoors.


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## twdi (May 26, 2012)

I'm going to upgrade my 30D which I had in 2006 was in was in vancouver too.
I think my only choice is the 7D. 

I have a 70-200F4IS + 1.4TCII and consider to add a 300F4 and if I sell the 30D with the Tamron 17-50 I'm thinking of adding the 17-55IS.

Would that be your idea too?
I expect to shoot bears, orca's and similiair larger wildlife the most on vc island and in hyder.
Landscapes too offcourse. Hopefully will also go to salmon glacier

Great to 'speak' a guy from the area...


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## darth mollusk (May 26, 2012)

twdi said:


> I have a 70-200F4IS + 1.4TCII and consider to add a 300F4 and if I sell the 30D with the Tamron 17-50 I'm thinking of adding the 17-55IS.



a 7D with those lenses will work great imo, all of them sharp performers from what I have read. have a great time - make sure you get out to tofino!


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## twdi (May 26, 2012)

Yes I will. We go with www.naturetrek.ca and they don't come in the tourist area's


Thanks for your advise. I have to confess... I've been in BC 2 times and 1x in the yukon and alaska.
I'm really jealous are your country. Holland is so flat....
If I could find a job over there....... haha


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## darth mollusk (May 26, 2012)

I lived in Amsterdam for 3 months when I was younger. we may have the upper hand with nature here - but your cities are some of the most beautiful on earth.

I need to get up to Alaska sometime again soon - not enough grizzlies here in Vancouver


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## twdi (May 26, 2012)

As dutch guy I hardly come in amsterdam. I liked vancouver but whistler looks amazing too.
The live in canada is so more relaxed then in europe.
Just take a car and driver over our highways....

Alaska is amazing too. Some of my pictures from the 30D are here:
http://www.pbase.com/tilburg2alaska/alaska


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## darth mollusk (May 26, 2012)

awesome! that's one big momma bear. you'll love the 7d for shots similar to those - perfect.


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## twdi (May 26, 2012)

Yes I was lucky. This bear just came down the hill directly after the denali tourbus..


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## briansquibb (May 27, 2012)

darth mollusk said:


> are you listening canon? don't ever think that people don't want another high end crop body



Yep bring back APS-H


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## twdi (May 27, 2012)

yes that could be a great compromise


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## pdirestajr (May 27, 2012)

I'd go Canon 24-105mm f/4L IS USM and add a 50m f/1.8 for very little cost and space- foe those low light needs.


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## twdi (May 27, 2012)

A 24 is not wide enough for great landscapes I think.


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## briansquibb (May 27, 2012)

twdi said:


> A 24 is not wide enough for great landscapes I think.



I think we were suggesting the 24-105 as a Standard Zoom

For landscapes it rather depends on the individual needs.

For the occasional landscape you could take several shots and stitch them together for a high resolution panorama (with more mps than a D800 in a single shot)

Here is a 24mm landscape I took yesterday


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