# Hands-on with the Canon EOS M3



## vjlex (Feb 16, 2015)

I got a chance to play around with the M3 and EVF today at the Canon Store in downtown Osaka. First off, I'll say I really liked the LCD. And although the metal frame that it hinges on seems a bit counter-intuitive, I really like that the screen can be tilted. I can't see any reason why it couldn't be an articulated screen instead except to intentionally prevent it from infringing on Rebel and 70D territory. Even still, a tilt screen is still a nice addition.

I brought along with me my EF adapter and one of my L lens. Last week I tried this setup with both the M and M2, and didn't like how it felt- a tiny, gripless camera and a huge lens. With the M3, even with the new grip, it didn't make much of a difference. Using a large lens with this camera is not going to be a pleasant experience for me. For me, it really is just going to be a P&S upgrade with the ability to use top-quality lens.

As for the EVF, it is not something I see myself using very often. Looking through it brought me back to the days of using Sony Handycams and peeping through that EVF to see what was being recorded. I much prefer using the LCD as my viewfinder. Perhaps in some situations where the sun is too bright I might find the EVF useful, but I have my doubts about that.

Don't get me wrong, I still like it enough and plan on getting one on day one. The picture quality from what I could tell was really good. The ergonomics are probably alright if you're content to use M lenses, but not the most comfortable with other glass. And the EVF I can see being one of those accessories I throw in the bag to bring along with me just-in-case, but more often than not doesn't get used.

I'm not a professional reviewer or anything, so forgive me if this isn't completely objective and methodical. Maybe it can be useful to some though.


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## Maximilian (Feb 16, 2015)

Hello shunsai! 

Thank you very much for your hands-on impressions.

You gave me a good first insight. Although I was very interested in EOS M, I went a different way last fall (EOS 100D) because Canon was not improving fast enough. 

It seems to me, that this body would have been the right thing for me (although not at the actual price point) but EOS M is still lacking a higher variety of dedicated lenses. 

I hope you'll enjoy your new tool when you'll get it.


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## bf (Feb 16, 2015)

Cool impressions Shunsai! Was the start-up time improved? How about the AF speed?


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## vjlex (Feb 16, 2015)

Maximilian said:


> I hope you'll enjoy your new tool when you'll get it.



Hey Maximilian, thanks! I look forward to playing with this new toy when it's released. I hope you are enjoying yours as well and getting some great shots!



bf said:


> Cool impressions Shunsai! Was the start-up time improved? How about the AF speed?



Hey bf, thanks. I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary regarding the startup time. I didn't know it was an issue, so didn't really take note of it, but compared to my DSLR, I don't recall it being any slower or any faster. As for the autofocus, I was actually really impressed with that. I remember when using the M and M2 last week that it was pretty slow and seemed to hunt a lot. But the M3 was really fast to find focus. Again, I can't say whether it was actually the 3-6x faster statistic that I've seen somewhere, but it was very much improved. Even with the L lens (with USM) it focused very well and very quickly.


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## bf (Feb 16, 2015)

> Hey bf, thanks. I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary regarding the startup time. I didn't know it was an issue, so didn't really take note of it, but compared to my DSLR, I don't recall it being any slower or any faster. As for the autofocus, I was actually really impressed with that. I remember when using the M and M2 last week that it was pretty slow and seemed to hunt a lot. But the M3 was really fast to find focus. Again, I can't say whether it was actually the 3-6x faster statistic that I've seen somewhere, but it was very much improved. Even with the L lens (with USM) it focused very well and very quickly.


Very nice! I wish the EVF kits become permanently available "internationally" although same as you I prefer the LCD to tiny ovfs and evfs.


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## Rocky (Feb 17, 2015)

Maximilian said:


> Hello shunsai!
> 
> Thank you very much for your hands-on impressions.
> 
> ...


I think Canon view the EOS-M as a minimalist's camera. 4 lenses takes care of 95% of the situation. If you want more than that , there is always EF-EF-M adapter ($45 at Amazon) and all the EF, EF-S lenses that you have already own.


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## KateH (Feb 18, 2015)

I'm curious to see if noise & DR has improved with the M3. The M has been a fantastic landscape/architecture camera for me with a shift-converted Nikkor 17-35, but I find myself having to do lots of bracketing & blending to get acceptable highlight detail & shadow noise.

Any observations on that end? I'm hoping DXO or DP Review will test it soon- if Canon managed to improve DR by at least a 1.5-2 stops vs M1 I'll buy an M3 from Japan right away, but the poor performance of even their recent FF sensors in that regard has me a bit hesitant...


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## brad-man (Feb 18, 2015)

Thank you Shunsai for the first impression review. I have been satisfied with the IQ of the M, particularly in such a small size. Since I assumed that Canon would use the same sensor as the 70D, it will be interesting to see how this new 24MP sensor compares in both IQ and focus tracking. Unfortunately, I have really been waiting for some fast primes, preferably of the pancake variety, to maintain the small form factor. After reading that silly "interview" from _Imaging Resource_, my hopes of any real progress in Canon mirrorless land have dwindled.


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## surapon (Feb 18, 2015)

Thank you, Dear Friend Mr. shunsai.
Wow, I will get one of this M3 the first batch in my home city NC. USA. and let my wife have Mi----Ha, Ha, Ha.Have a hgreat Wednesday.
Surapon


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## iron-t (Feb 18, 2015)

Glad to have these insights. Still on the fence between adopting the M3 or abandoning the M system to get a xxxD second body. If Canon would release a down-scaled 17-55mm f/2.8 for M, or a couple more small, fast primes, that might make the biggest difference. Or a compact macro. Much as I like the 22mm, the 18-55 is just too slow; the 11-22 is too pricey; and the 55-200 is physically too long and way too slow (and just about useless unless AF really is worlds faster on M3).

With a tiny body that lacks a truly substantial grip, the handling of any zoom lens (other than maybe a theoretical power zoom) is going to be dicey because the torque applied to the zoom ring can be enough to destabilize your grip on the camera body--particularly when holding the camera out from your body to compose on an LCD. A stiff ring like on the Tamron 24-70mm VC makes it useless in combination with the M. Primes just handle better.

I think I may be convincing myself to bag it and just go with a Rebel T6s (760D).


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## kphoto99 (Feb 18, 2015)

iron-t said:


> Glad to have these insights. Still on the fence between adopting the M3 or abandoning the M system to get a xxxD second body. If Canon would release a down-scaled 17-55mm f/2.8 for M, or a couple more small, fast primes, that might make the biggest difference. Or a compact macro. Much as I like the 22mm, the 18-55 is just too slow; the 11-22 is too pricey; and the 55-200 is physically too long and way too slow (and just about useless unless AF really is worlds faster on M3).
> 
> With a tiny body that lacks a truly substantial grip, the handling of any zoom lens (other than maybe a theoretical power zoom) is going to be dicey because the torque applied to the zoom ring can be enough to destabilize your grip on the camera body--particularly when holding the camera out from your body to compose on an LCD. A stiff ring like on the Tamron 24-70mm VC makes it useless in combination with the M. Primes just handle better.
> 
> I think I may be convincing myself to bag it and just go with a Rebel T6s (760D).



I got myself this grip:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/LB-EOSM-Quick-Release-QR-Vertical-Hand-Grip-L-Plate-Bracket-for-Canon-EOS-M-/251839255741?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3aa2ca14bd

It make handling the M so much better.


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## vjlex (Feb 19, 2015)

KateH said:


> I'm curious to see if noise & DR has improved with the M3. The M has been a fantastic landscape/architecture camera for me with a shift-converted Nikkor 17-35, but I find myself having to do lots of bracketing & blending to get acceptable highlight detail & shadow noise.
> 
> Any observations on that end? I'm hoping DXO or DP Review will test it soon- if Canon managed to improve DR by at least a 1.5-2 stops vs M1 I'll buy an M3 from Japan right away, but the poor performance of even their recent FF sensors in that regard has me a bit hesitant...



Sorry, noise & DR improvement I don't have the answer to. I could only use the M3 in-store and the bottom was sealed, so I couldn't put my own SD card in to take samples home with me. I didn't spend too much time with the M & M2, so can't really comment on how their noise compares, but I wouldn't expect too much improvement. The first shots I took were at ISO 3200 and I do remember noticing the noise (that's what made me realize the ISO was high; I changed it for subsequent shots).



brad-man said:


> Thank you Shunsai for the first impression review.





surapon said:


> Thank you, Dear Friend Mr. shunsai.
> Wow, I will get one of this M3 the first batch in my home city NC. USA. and let my wife have Mi----Ha, Ha, Ha.Have a hgreat Wednesday.
> Surapon



@brad-man, no problem! 
@surapon, my pleasure. I don't believe it's being released in the US, but there are ways to order it online. Will you order it through Amazon Japan?

I reserved one at the brick & mortar camera shop I buy my gear from here in Osaka (it was just a little cheaper than Amazon, but more importantly, I wanted to support the little guy... even if it is a little less convenient). I'm looking forward to getting one to play with soon! Hopefully some of the cherry blossoms will still be on the trees when I do.



iron-t said:


> Glad to have these insights. Still on the fence between adopting the M3 or abandoning the M system to get a xxxD second body. If Canon would release a down-scaled 17-55mm f/2.8 for M, or a couple more small, fast primes, that might make the biggest difference. Or a compact macro. Much as I like the 22mm, the 18-55 is just too slow; the 11-22 is too pricey; and the 55-200 is physically too long and way too slow (and just about useless unless AF really is worlds faster on M3).
> 
> With a tiny body that lacks a truly substantial grip, the handling of any zoom lens (other than maybe a theoretical power zoom) is going to be dicey because the torque applied to the zoom ring can be enough to destabilize your grip on the camera body--particularly when holding the camera out from your body to compose on an LCD. A stiff ring like on the Tamron 24-70mm VC makes it useless in combination with the M. Primes just handle better.
> 
> I think I may be convincing myself to bag it and just go with a Rebel T6s (760D).



@iron-t, very true about the destabilization of your grip while holding the lens barrel. It was a little dicey changing the focal length with one hand and holding onto the small body with the other (even with the built in grip). For me this is just to complement my 5D2, so I still will use that as my main camera. But personally, if it was a choice of either a DSLR or an M3, I much prefer the handle of a solid DSLR.


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## ecka (Feb 19, 2015)

iron-t said:


> Glad to have these insights. Still on the fence between adopting the M3 or abandoning the M system to get a xxxD second body. If Canon would release a down-scaled 17-55mm f/2.8 for M, or a couple more small, fast primes, that might make the biggest difference. Or a compact macro. Much as I like the 22mm, the 18-55 is just too slow; the 11-22 is too pricey; and the 55-200 is physically too long and way too slow (and just about useless unless AF really is worlds faster on M3).
> 
> With a tiny body that lacks a truly substantial grip, the handling of any zoom lens (other than maybe a theoretical power zoom) is going to be dicey because the torque applied to the zoom ring can be enough to destabilize your grip on the camera body--particularly when holding the camera out from your body to compose on an LCD. A stiff ring like on the Tamron 24-70mm VC makes it useless in combination with the M. Primes just handle better.
> 
> I think I may be convincing myself to bag it and just go with a Rebel T6s (760D).



Well, it's not like Canon is "trolling" us by not making a small F2.8 zoom. I'm pretty sure it's not possible to make such a lens  (not yet). Same for the "small and fast 55-200".
Some say that even Sigma 18-35/1.8Art works beautifully on EOS M with a proper grip mounted on it.


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## Jamesy (Feb 21, 2015)

Thanks for your review. Was this a pre-release version? My pre-order from Amazon.co.jp says it will not ship until March 31st.

Can you comment on the pop-up flash - did the mechanism seem well built?

Thanks!


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## docsmith (Feb 21, 2015)

Thanks for sharing Shunsai. Did you get any sense as to how much faster the AF was? I've read reports that it is ~6x faster than the M1 which should put the shutter lag at ~0.1-0.15 seconds.

Was the AF fast and responsive?


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## MJ (Feb 21, 2015)

shunsai said:


> I got a chance to play around with the M3 and EVF today...



Hello shunsai, thank you for your feedback, it's greatly appreciated!

One thing I have wondered is whether the new M3 (or older M/M2) make any "shutter" sound or other noise when taking a photo?
Personally I'd love a camera that's completely quiet for discrete street photography in public places, without the annoying clicking my SL1 makes - even in quiet mode. 

That can just ruin the whole atmosphere when you take pictures of someone completely oblivious, or skittish animals... 

thanks


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## Act444 (Feb 21, 2015)

MJ said:


> shunsai said:
> 
> 
> > I got a chance to play around with the M3 and EVF today...
> ...



Can't speak for the M2 or M3 as I don't have them, but the original M definitely has a shutter sound - and it's certainly audible in a quiet room (during a presentation, while I took photos for the event, the shutter sounds had a couple people turning back towards me briefly). 

I will say, though, that it is quieter than the SL1. Noticeably so.


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## MJ (Feb 21, 2015)

Thank you for your reply.

Does anybody else have (different) M2/3 experience?


If it's really that noisy I guess I will have to stick to my phone for a while, for when I really want to do stealthy shots in urban environments...


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## danski0224 (Feb 22, 2015)

Sounds dangerously close to "stalker"...


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## MJ (Feb 22, 2015)

LOL! It does! ;D

Oh my!


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## vjlex (Feb 23, 2015)

Jamesy said:


> Thanks for your review. Was this a pre-release version? My pre-order from Amazon.co.jp says it will not ship until March 31st.
> 
> Can you comment on the pop-up flash - did the mechanism seem well built?
> 
> Thanks!



The Canon Stores around Japan have basically an ongoing open house event where you can come in and play with all their current offerings (including the new releases such as the M3, 5Ds, 5DsR, and 11-24L). So it may be a pre-production version, I'm not sure, but if so, I don't imagine there being any differences to the final product.

As for the popup flash, no it doesn't seem very sturdy or well built at all. It felt quite flimsy as a matter of fact. But given the size constraints and the fact that none of the predecessors had an onboard flash, I think this is forgiveable. I'm glad that it's there, and from what I recall of the few shots I did with it on, it didn't seem too harsh. Either way, love it or hate, I do believe it's much better than nothing.



docsmith said:


> Thanks for sharing Shunsai. Did you get any sense as to how much faster the AF was? I've read reports that it is ~6x faster than the M1 which should put the shutter lag at ~0.1-0.15 seconds.
> 
> Was the AF fast and responsive?



Yup, I found AF very fast and responsive compared to the M and M2.



MJ said:


> Hello shunsai, thank you for your feedback, it's greatly appreciated!
> 
> One thing I have wondered is whether the new M3 (or older M/M2) make any "shutter" sound or other noise when taking a photo?
> Personally I'd love a camera that's completely quiet for discrete street photography in public places, without the annoying clicking my SL1 makes - even in quiet mode.
> ...



Sorry, I don't actually remember if the shutter made a sound or not. Nor did I check if sound could be turned on or off. If I get a chance to try it out again, I'll report back here.


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## MJ (Feb 23, 2015)

Thanks shunsai!


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## vjlex (Feb 24, 2015)

MJ said:


> Thanks shunsai!



No problem. I happened to be downtown today, so stopped by the Canon store to play around with the M3 again. It definitely makes a shutter sound when you take a picture. I couldn't really find anywhere in the menus to turn it off.

@docsmith
Regarding autofocus speed, while I didn't time it, autofocus was very fast and there was no shutter release lag as far as I could tell. It seemed virtually instant to me.


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## MJ (Feb 24, 2015)

Alright. Thank you for checking again!


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## koenkooi (Feb 25, 2015)

The M1/M2/M3 all have a physical shutter, so you can't turn the sound off. Magic Lantern supports so called 'silent pictures', which are either lower resolution (720p) or full res with a capped minimum shutter (1/30s).


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## untenchicken (Feb 26, 2015)

No problem. I happened to be downtown today, so stopped by the Canon store to play around with the M3 again. It definitely makes a shutter sound when you take a picture. I couldn't really find anywhere in the menus to turn it off.



Hi Shunsai!
Could you be so kind as to tell me where that shop is you can play around with the new M3? I'll be in Osaka next Monday (I live in Kobe BTW) and am kind of interested in handling it myself (comparing it with my M at the spot) 
Also, could you please advice me where to go for some street photography in Osaka? I like downtown areas (used to shoot in Nippori / Tokyo all the time) so if you could give pointers I would really appreciate that! (Sorry to the rest of the CR community for this rather selfish post :-[


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## vjlex (Feb 26, 2015)

untenchicken said:


> Hi Shunsai!
> Could you be so kind as to tell me where that shop is you can play around with the new M3? I'll be in Osaka next Monday (I live in Kobe BTW) and am kind of interested in handling it myself (comparing it with my M at the spot)
> Also, could you please advice me where to go for some street photography in Osaka? I like downtown areas (used to shoot in Nippori / Tokyo all the time) so if you could give pointers I would really appreciate that! (Sorry to the rest of the CR community for this rather selfish post :-[



No problem. The more firsthand user experiences, the better!

Here is the address for the Canon store (the service center, gallery and experience store are all in the same plaza). If you follow the link, it will show a map of how to get there. That being said, it can be a little complicated to find. For one, on the street level, you're not going to necessarily see it because it's on the basement floor of one of the many tall buildings in Osaka. The best way to get to it is walking underground from Umeda or Osaka station towards the Herbis Ent building. If you're taking Hanshin from Kobe, it's about a 5 minute walk from Hanshin Umeda station. 

Canon Service Center Umeda
Address: Umeda Dye Bldg. B1 floor, Umeda 3-3-10
Kita-ku, Osaka, Japan 530-0001
〒530-0001大阪府大阪市北区梅田3-3-10　梅田ダイビルB1F
Phone: (06) 4795-9100
Fax: (06) 4795-9103
Web site: http://as.chizumaru.com/canon/detailmap?account=canon&accmd=0&bid=411
Hours: 10:00-18:00, closed Sun. and national holidays
Directions: Canon Showroom is also adjacent. Near JR Osaka Station (Sakurabashi Exit) and Umeda Station.

For street photography, Umeda (north Osaka) is a great area for seeing lots of people coming and going. There is a bridge that connects Osaka JR and the other train stations. Lots of people pass there, some performers set up there- it's easy to find a spot to just stand and people watch. I also like going to Osaka Castle (especially since the park itself is free; central Osaka). Dotonbori (near Namba; south part of the city) is also a really good place for photographing, sightseeing, and eating. There you also have tons of opportunities for taking pix of shops with great displays (some even animatronic). Even further south is Tennoji. They recently erected the tallest building in Japan there (from what I hear), and it is linked to the station by a pretty cool walkway above the main intersection there.


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## untenchicken (Feb 26, 2015)

shunsai said:


> untenchicken said:
> 
> 
> > Hi Shunsai!
> ...





Hi Shunsai,


Thanks very much! Appreciate it.


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## pete vella (Feb 26, 2015)

Can you please comment on shot to shot cycle time. My eos m has a long lcd blackout between shot roughly 2sec.


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## HaroldC3 (Feb 26, 2015)

Assuming the M3 has wifi you could transfer images to your smart phone I imagine


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## tgara (Feb 26, 2015)

iron-t said:


> Glad to have these insights. Still on the fence between adopting the M3 or abandoning the M system to get a xxxD second body. If Canon would release a down-scaled 17-55mm f/2.8 for M, or a couple more small, fast primes, that might make the biggest difference. Or a compact macro. Much as I like the 22mm, the 18-55 is just too slow; the 11-22 is too pricey; and the 55-200 is physically too long and way too slow (and just about useless unless AF really is worlds faster on M3).
> 
> With a tiny body that lacks a truly substantial grip, the handling of any zoom lens (other than maybe a theoretical power zoom) is going to be dicey because the torque applied to the zoom ring can be enough to destabilize your grip on the camera body--particularly when holding the camera out from your body to compose on an LCD. A stiff ring like on the Tamron 24-70mm VC makes it useless in combination with the M. Primes just handle better.
> 
> I think I may be convincing myself to bag it and just go with a Rebel T6s (760D).



Not trying to hijack this thread, but have you considered the Canon SL1/100D? That's what I use as a smaller, lighter alternative to my 5D3. For me, the SL1 had more advantages and was a better fit than the EOS M. All my L lenses fit on it, no adapter needed (although I have the 18-55 and 55-250 lenses as well). Handling is very good, much like a regular SLR. Image quality is superb. And the whole kit fits into a small Crumpler bag that is easy and light to tote around.

To me, if you already own a larger Canon camera and accessories, the SL1 is a perfect addition if you are looking for something smaller and lighter.

It also makes a great easy-to-use camera for a wife or girlfriend.


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## docsmith (Feb 26, 2015)

shunsai said:


> @docsmith
> Regarding autofocus speed, while I didn't time it, autofocus was very fast and there was no shutter release lag as far as I could tell. It seemed virtually instant to me.



Much appreciated. You may have just helped Canon sell at least one M3 in North America.


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## Act444 (Feb 26, 2015)

The SL1/55-250 combo is great and has served me well when a larger setup wasn't practical. However, I recently handled the M with the EF-M 55-200 and the size difference is significant. In fact, the M/55-200 can even be crammed into my small belt bag while I still need a regular size camera bag for the SL1 and 55-250. Also, while the 55-250 is not a big white lens, I've still had it draw (some) attention on occasion. Strongly considering swapping it out for the M/55-200...of course when I want to go all out there is the big white lens that is the 100-400


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## Rocky (Feb 26, 2015)

tgara said:


> iron-t said:
> 
> 
> > Glad to have these insights. Still on the fence between adopting the M3 or abandoning the M system to get a xxxD second body. If Canon would release a down-scaled 17-55mm f/2.8 for M, or a couple more small, fast primes, that might make the biggest difference. Or a compact macro. Much as I like the 22mm, the 18-55 is just too slow; the 11-22 is too pricey; and the 55-200 is physically too long and way too slow (and just about useless unless AF really is worlds faster on M3).
> ...


 M with 22mm is poscketable. SL1 with 24mm is not, plus the 24 m is slower than the 22mm


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## Vikmnilu (Feb 26, 2015)

When isit going to be released in Japan? A couple of friends are going there 2 weeks in March and I may force them to pull the trigger 

Although I have some other lenses/cameras as a priority... hard to choose!!!

Thanks shunsai for the update and accurate info!!

Greetings from Finland

Victor


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## vjlex (Mar 10, 2015)

Vikmnilu said:


> When isit going to be released in Japan? A couple of friends are going there 2 weeks in March and I may force them to pull the trigger
> 
> Although I have some other lenses/cameras as a priority... hard to choose!!!
> 
> ...



Hi Victor, according to Canon, the M3 is supposed to arrive at the end of March. I haven't heard an official release date yet, but Amazon Japan says March 31st. Hopefully it will be sooner than that though.


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## vjlex (Mar 20, 2015)

I've been eagerly watching for a date. According to yodobashi.com and amazon.co.jp, the M3 should be available Thursday March 26, 2015. Just one more week to go! ;D


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## vjlex (Mar 25, 2015)

Well, I picked up my M3 this afternoon (a day early). As soon as I walked out the camera store, I walked around town a bit and took some shots. A few notes about these shots: I shot them using my Tokina 16-28mm. It's quite a big lens to put on such a small camera, but so far I'm quite pleased with the picture quality.

I definitely have to work on my manual focusing. I'm not sure why, but I had some trouble getting the M3 to autofocus the Tokina. It's hopefully just a setting I overlooked. It seemed to autofocus fine when I had the camera set to continuous focus, but once I turned it off, the back-button focus didn't seem to respond. So I ended up just manually focusing. Anyway, it's still early and I didn't have time to get familiar with all the settings.

One thing I will say is that the menu button is in a really annoying corner of the camera. Being that there's not much space for your hands, I kept on mashing the menu button with my palm. That was a little annoying. I'm glad it's not the delete button! Other than that, so far, so good. 

I'm gonna post quite a few shots, so I'm gonna break it up a bit.

f/4.0 1/125 ISO800 28mm







f/4.5 1/100 ISO640 20mm





f/2.8 1/60 ISO200 28mm


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## vjlex (Mar 25, 2015)

Here is the second batch:

f/2.8 1/80 ISO200 28mm





f/2.8 1/60 ISO200 16mm





f/2.8 1/60 ISO200 16mm





f/2.8 1/50 ISO200 16mm


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## vjlex (Mar 25, 2015)

And one more for good measure! 

f/2.8 1/25 ISO200 16mm





f/2.8 1/160 ISO400 28mm





f/2.8 1/60 ISO400 20mm





f/2.8 1/6 ISO400 18mm


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## East Wind Photography (Mar 25, 2015)

Looks really good to me. Can you take some high ISO shots when you get a chance? In a low light situation? Please also post the ISO and camera settings if you can so we can put this awesome quality into perspective.

I'd like to see if it holds up to ISO 1600, 3200, 6400.


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## WorkonSunday (Mar 25, 2015)

anyone know if M3 has an optical low pass filter (AA filter)?


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## Maximilian (Mar 25, 2015)

WorkonSunday said:


> anyone know if M3 has an optical low pass filter (AA filter)?


Technical Data from Canon says: yes it has one.


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## WorkonSunday (Mar 25, 2015)

ah, ok, thanks.


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## Khufu (Mar 25, 2015)

Ooh, lots of interesting going ons in this thread - Thanks everyone for sharing your thoughts and pics! Let's see if I can remember what posts I wanted to comment on...

EOS M Black-out: I believe this delay was greatly improved upon from M to M2, to such an extent that it was highlighted in the M2 video promos on YouTube - or if I'm mistaken, users at least made comparison videos of that and also the increased AF speed - so I imagine the M3 can only be further improved with the next gen sensor (2 gens from the M1) and processor!

Pop-Up BOUNCE Flash!: I'm disappointed to hear it feels a little flimsy BUT... It tilts up for bouncing, right?! This is an AMAZING feature - has anybody tried it out with any success? If people remember it's there this could save a lot of opportunities being lost vs leaving a bulky flash at home!

SL1 People!: I'll join you in hijacking this thread, just a little 
Here's a wildcard and I hope you consider it: "EF 100mm f/2 USM" - I don't think a (relatively) petite, sexier SL1/Lens combo exists, and given the choice I'd probably rather crop a 4.5mp image from it than shoot a much slower 200mm lens. It's fairly compact, fast and to me is possibly the pinnacle of APS-C shooting speed/reach/portability compromise (and prior to the new 24mp and DPAF sensors, the M2 and SL1 sensor was/is Canons best, beating the 7D!) 
Also, the 50mm 1.8 (mk1 for me) is also small and awesome on the SL1/100D


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## Khufu (Mar 25, 2015)

another underrated wildcard for either the M series (adapted) or SL1/100D:
Tamron's 55-200mm lens, has no IS but weighs next to nothing, goes on eBay for next to nothing and squishes down to just a few inches - the optics are wonderful in real-world use (the 18-200 is apparently poor but the 55-200 is rarely mentioned but is ace!)
Weighs nothing, takes up no space, costs pennies... Consider it, maybe? 

Back on the M3: Any thoughts on sensor performance* yet?! I'm very curious how this might resolve details for birding/wildlife and if ISO performance is going anywhere anymore  
*does the 760D thumb-twiddle, suppressed excitement dance*
oh, is the 760D on display then?!

*modified from autocorrect asking about 'Sensor Repentance'?! oh, well...


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## WorkonSunday (Mar 26, 2015)

im keeping a close eye on this. the 5ds 54 MP FF sensor if worked in APS-C mode, gives the same resolution. since the m3 and 5ds both use same/similar processor and pixel density are the same, in theory it should give the same DR/ISO performance. exciting time.


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## vjlex (Mar 26, 2015)

East Wind Photography said:


> Looks really good to me. Can you take some high ISO shots when you get a chance? In a low light situation? Please also post the ISO and camera settings if you can so we can put this awesome quality into perspective.
> 
> I'd like to see if it holds up to ISO 1600, 3200, 6400.



Here is a ISO1600 & 3200. Forgot to take one at 6400, because I was hungry and my food came. ;D

f/8.0 1/8 ISO1600 28mm






f/7.1 1/8 ISO3200 28mm





Btw, if anyone comes across the manual in English, please let me know. Mine only came with Japanese and the Canon Europe website hasn't posted it yet. Haven't figured out how to access the camera's wifi capabilities.


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## privatebydesign (Mar 26, 2015)

http://gdlp01.c-wss.com/gds/7/0300017917/01/eosm3-cu-en.pdf

WiFi is section 7, page 115-136.


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## sunnyVan (Mar 26, 2015)

I'm pretty happy with the original M. The biggest problem to me is the lack of manual dials. What I'm interested to know is whether there's significant AF improvement and how the evf performs. But I preordered it anyway. The manual dials alone is worth an upgrade to me.


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## Jamesy (Mar 26, 2015)

Amazon Japan did an authorization on my CC on March 24th. The original pre-order ETA was MAr 31st. Is it now confirmed as shipping in Japan? Is it early?

I have yet to receive an email from Amazon Japan that they have shipped it to Tenso.com on my bahlf as of yet.


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## Jamesy (Mar 26, 2015)

Totally missed the email from Amazon Japan. My M3 shipped on Mar 24th and arrived today at Tenso moments ago (so says Amazon tracking). The Tenso portal is still not registering the package on my behalf.


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## vjlex (Mar 27, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> http://gdlp01.c-wss.com/gds/7/0300017917/01/eosm3-cu-en.pdf
> 
> WiFi is section 7, page 115-136.



Thanks! I finally was able to try out the remote shooting and remote viewing function. A bit tricky to setup at first, but pretty cool once it is.


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## East Wind Photography (Mar 27, 2015)

1600 looks pretty clean but the 3200 is starting to look a bit spongy in the shadows. Might be the jpg compression and then the re-compression done by the forum. Not bad though. Would still like to see 6400 sometime in low light with something in the background that's really dark, almost black.

Thanks for taking the time to show us what it can do. I'll be looking to upgrade my M1.



shunsai said:


> East Wind Photography said:
> 
> 
> > Looks really good to me. Can you take some high ISO shots when you get a chance? In a low light situation? Please also post the ISO and camera settings if you can so we can put this awesome quality into perspective.
> ...


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## ydnality (Mar 27, 2015)

shunsai said:


> East Wind Photography said:
> 
> 
> > Looks really good to me. Can you take some high ISO shots when you get a chance? In a low light situation? Please also post the ISO and camera settings if you can so we can put this awesome quality into perspective.
> ...



Thanks for the shots!

I'm very curious to if they've improved shadow performance and dynamic range at low ISO's. Would you be able to take a dark ISO 100 shot in RAW and bring up the shadows and see if that's improved over the 7d mk ii? Thank you!!


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## East Wind Photography (Mar 28, 2015)

Typically with digital cameras, low ISO is used to preserve highlight detail and high ISO to preserve shadow detail. I doubt there will be much improvement over the 7d2.

Most people don't realize this fact and expect the sensors to perform equally well at all ISOs. 

Magic Lantern dual-ISO deals with this issue by using high and low ISO to record images then combining the best of both to create a low noise high dr image. However ML only works with the M1 right now.

We typically expect more and more from new cameras but if we keep the above ISO rule in mind when shooting subjects we can compensate for DR issues by selecting the proper ISO first.


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## ydnality (Mar 29, 2015)

That's certainly true, but there are times where having that dynamic range is really useful. For example, if you have a back-lit landscape shot where you don't want the highlights to be overexposed because they tell an interesting story. In this case, it would be best to expose such that the highlights aren't maxed, and bring up the details in the shadows. And it's disappointing that the sony sensors are capable of better dynamic range. 

Sure, magic lantern does help, but there are certainly artifacts from the trick they are using to increase dynamic range. Plus, I prefer to run my cameras in stock mode. 



East Wind Photography said:


> Typically with digital cameras, low ISO is used to preserve highlight detail and high ISO to preserve shadow detail. I doubt there will be much improvement over the 7d2.
> 
> Most people don't realize this fact and expect the sensors to perform equally well at all ISOs.
> 
> ...


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## Marsu42 (Apr 6, 2015)

ydnality said:


> That's certainly true, but there are times where having that dynamic range is really useful. [...] And it's disappointing that the sony sensors are capable of better dynamic range.



You're new 'round here, so let me put it to you in a civil way  ... CR experts have determined if you need more than _[insert spec of current Canon sensors here]_ than you're not capable enough as a photog, and you certainly don't need _[insert spec of current Sony sensors here]_ !

Btw ever though of using a Sony sensor with Magic Lantern's dual_iso? This would result in a *17ev* dynamic range in a single shot...


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## East Wind Photography (Apr 6, 2015)

Marsu42 said:


> ydnality said:
> 
> 
> > That's certainly true, but there are times where having that dynamic range is really useful. [...] And it's disappointing that the sony sensors are capable of better dynamic range.
> ...



I agree. I use ML dualiso now to shoot sports when the games are outside in mid afternoon or I have to be on the other side of the field with the sun In my eyes. In both of those instances most photogs would give up.

Another application I use it for is shooting wildlife. Dualiso allows me to shoot animals in the mid day sun and recover the shadow detail for a more natural looking photograph. 

I think either would be difficult with a Sony, regardless of the dr.


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## dcm (Apr 9, 2015)

Jamesy said:


> Totally missed the email from Amazon Japan. My M3 shipped on Mar 24th and arrived today at Tenso moments ago (so says Amazon tracking). The Tenso portal is still not registering the package on my behalf.



So, did it arrive? Initial impressions? I'm considering this route if it doesn't appear on DigitalRev in the near future.


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## vjlex (Apr 10, 2015)

dcm said:


> So, did it arrive? Initial impressions? I'm considering this route if it doesn't appear on DigitalRev in the near future.



Kinda strange that no one else has chimed in yet to say whether they got theirs yet or not. I really wanna hear other people's impressions.


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## JonoRees (Apr 10, 2015)

Just ordered my on Ebay today from Japan based supplier.

First time I've ordered anything camera-wise that I haven't tested extensively to see if I want to invest. But the specs on paper are what I'm after. Thought about sony but the lenses on review are turning up short from what I can see.

Bought the kit (22mm) with the EVF and an EF adaptor.....


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## smozes (Apr 10, 2015)

shunsai said:


> dcm said:
> 
> 
> > So, did it arrive? Initial impressions? I'm considering this route if it doesn't appear on DigitalRev in the near future.
> ...



There are a bunch of buyers on the DPReview EOS M forum. 

I got mine, ordered a kit from Amazon.co.jp and forwarded to the U.S. 

It's a big improvement over the M, it handles much faster with no blackout. AF is improved in most scenarios. The tilt screen, EVF and focus peaking are very useful. I love it.


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## bf (Apr 12, 2015)

smozes said:


> shunsai said:
> 
> 
> > dcm said:
> ...



Glad you like it. I'm still happy with my M and I don't have a plan for upgrade. On the other hand, I don't like the fact people are over reacting to M3's bugs in DP forum.


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## archiea (May 13, 2015)

Whoops, I haven"t posted here. 

I got mine from ebay from Japan, $647 with the EVF (the price since has dropped to $599). It tooks almost three weeks to arrive. I've had it for about a week. I already trial-by-fire put it thru its paces in bars and such, my usual stopping grounds for my 5D. Note, I have an M1 but never really dared taking it to bar social settings in low light. The M1 got as use as a personal family camera where I'd stuff a 600 speed light instead of the 5D. This time I took it to a friends birthday party and I shot a band that I usually shoot my 5D with radio strobes with. 

First, with the first impressions:

1)New Grip felt comfortable in hand. 

2)It uses a different and slightly larger battery and a different charger than the M1

3)The body is plastic. I believe where the lens mount and and LCD latch to is metal frame but the exterior and the area around the handle and where the battery go is plastic. With the battery out I was able to compress the the battery compartment with my finger and thumb a little bit. I tried this because I heard the faintest of body creak when I handled the camera for a couple of days. I have to stress, it was the faintest of body creak sounds. Meanwhile the M1 is SOLID and I can't compress the empty battery compartment because its all metal. So it borrows from the powershot G16 in terms of body design. I did not read this at all as cheap. In fact the external texture is grippier than the M1, plus you have the actual grip. The camera feels solid. I'm just noting the different. 

4) The LCD screen feels solid, well thought out and very easy to learn its articulation. The main frame accordions out while the screen slides slightly from a sprint armature,. Its how it sort of pops out. Tiny little details like putting tiny little feet around the screen allows you to put it on its back on the surface while not allowing the screen to touch the surface. I've already used the flip top selfie mode to take a selfie of a group of us. Not a gimmick, but very convenient and making it an intimate warm camera instead of a cold device. 

5) The EOS menu has been dumbed down just a little bit, i.e. you can't put custom functions or the format menu item in the favorites section. Only SRGB color space. The M1 menu felt like a streamlined EOS menu. The M3 menu feels like its bridging a bit to the powershot world, just a bit. Meanwhile he G16'w menu feels more like it adopting a more EOS environment. Possible convergence here down the road. Lets hope the M platform doesn't get any dumber and the powershot just gets a little smarter. 

6) New Button layout is good but is designed for LCD operation. The tactile quality fo the M!'s buttons were toned down to make them more flush with the camera, not sure why. Attempting to use it while using the EVF makes it clear that it wasn't to well thought out, i.e. e the magnify button rides high in the body, just under the playback button. With the flush design you will be hunting for that button while in the EVF. 

7) New multifunction button is programmable except for zooming!!!! which is too bad since its in a good spot for zooming while in EVF viewing. Meanwhile canon does something really smart like allowing you to reprogram the video record button to be used for photographic purposes, but automatically reverts to its video funtion when in video mode.

8) dials on top: the mode button offers almost too many modes with the inclusion of these creative modes. 

9) as far as the rotary dials, theres one under the shutter trigger and another on the thumb pad, either of which can be programmed for aperture or shutter. Tap the keypad up and it enables one of them to be iso. Tap the iso button again and it reverts back to being aperture/shutter. The LCD/EVF puts an icon for either button over the aperture/shutter/iso depending on what you currently have it enabled for. This is very helpful. Bravo Canon.

10) Tapping left on the thumb pad enables and disables Manual focus. With the Focus peaking enabled, you will see the toggle activating the FP when in manual, whole the menu talling you you are in manual focus mode. Or tap the left keypad and quickly switch to AF, and the FP is disabled. Set to AF + MF and you can override the auto focus. Just remember to keep the shutter half pressed or doing so again will make it AF again.. 

11) tracking and facial tracking have been combined into both either be on or off. This can be good or bad b/c at least that way you have both options at the ready at once.. Tap on an object to track or a face to track. This is fine while LCD viewing but not so with the evf on. You will have to remove your eye, let it switch automatically to the LCD screen, tap on a new target and then return to the evf. 

12) in low light, I was able to focus more than the M1. The red LED in the front of the camera can be enabled for either red eye reduction and/or illuminating a subject for focus assist. Its really bright. 

13) Pop up flash is a great addition. Within three feet I believe it can be used as a flash fill. In dark bars I tilted it upward and Created a soft Toplight for my subject. Since I shoot in bars at 1600 iso the camera is so sentive to light at that point that the little flash can bounce off the ceiling. 

14) built in Wifi has been great. I use the EOS remote app and it allows me to remotely view and operate the camera remotely, include autofocus selection. You can transfer images to your phone even if you only shot RAW files. it seems to do a jpg conversion on the fly. The IQ at night at bars held up well. I used ISO's 1600-6400. Whatever NR it does on the fly seems to produce nice clean images shot at those ISO's. 

15) evf is a great addition. Its a great way to just focus on framing. 

16) new display modes allows you to create four programmable overlays for the LCD and EVF. You can toggle amonst them with the info button. So pop up the histogram, the tilt/level etc or leave it bare bones so that you can frame the image without overlays. 

More to come, I hope this helpd.


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## longtallkarl (May 13, 2015)

thanks for the thorough report archiea! 

i'm thinking long and hard about the m3, mostly for the evf. i've enjoyed the m1, but it would get used more if it had better af, an evf, and better iq - all things the m3 seems to have.


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## archiea (May 13, 2015)

longtallkarl said:


> thanks for the thorough report archiea!
> 
> i'm thinking long and hard about the m3, mostly for the evf. i've enjoyed the m1, but it would get used more if it had better af, an evf, and better iq - all things the m3 seems to have.



LongtalkKarl, tell me what you want on the M3 and what you want most improved on a M1 and I'll see what I can tell you. If you do pull the trigger, definitley get the EVF with it. it comes with a little grey bag to protect it when not on your camera. On its own its $240 on B&H, definitley worth it in Kit form


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## Luds34 (May 13, 2015)

longtallkarl said:


> thanks for the thorough report archiea!
> 
> i'm thinking long and hard about the m3, mostly for the evf. i've enjoyed the m1, but it would get used more if it had better af, an evf, and better iq - all things the m3 seems to have.



+1

Yes thanks for the details. I own two M1's (I use one as a mostly dedicated family home movie maker) and am very happy with the IQ (Canon's classic 18 MP crop sensor) in such a small package. I'm definitely keeping an eye on the M3, just wanting to see a little bit more commitment from Canon on some dedicated EF-M glass.

I was disappointed to hear about the plastic-ness as I like the metal of the original M.

Glad to hear good things about the EVF, was definitely on my wish list from the original.

Thanks again!


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## archiea (May 14, 2015)

Luds34 said:


> longtallkarl said:
> 
> 
> > thanks for the thorough report archiea!
> ...



Don't let my comment of the plasticness discourage you. Its hard to spot. the Camera feels like money, not cheap. It is heavier because it has the addtion fo the meta frame for the LCD, heavier battery and extra components for the flash. So the tradeoff of metal for weight makes sense. Its doesn't feel like plastic in your hands. it has a really nice texture to it.


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## Luds34 (May 14, 2015)

archiea said:


> Luds34 said:
> 
> 
> > longtallkarl said:
> ...



I appreciate you clarifying that. Good to know. Thanks again.


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## Rocky (May 16, 2015)

archiea said:



> Don't let my comment of the plasticness discourage you. Its hard to spot. the Camera feels like money, not cheap. It is heavier because it has the addtion fo the meta frame for the LCD, heavier battery and extra components for the flash. So the tradeoff of metal for weight makes sense. Its doesn't feel like plastic in your hands. it has a really nice texture to it.


Since the M3 shares the same sensor with the T6s and T6i, do you notice the same problem (white spots) on the sensor?


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## dswtan (May 16, 2015)

I went the same route as archiea, following along on the really helpful (if sometimes nit-picky) community -- M3 by one of the well-rated Japan eBay sellers. Also completed my original M1 kit (which I immediately converted to IR as planned all along) with the 11-22 and 55-250. Really great summary by archiea, and I concur with pretty much everything. The plastic thing is a complete non-issue. 

My nitpicks are few -- articulated screen feels a bit delicate to me. I used to be a big fan of the old G-series mechanisms. This seems more clunky and I feel I have to treat it more carefully. I don't regularly use the EVF (never have been a fan, but glad it's there), so the little plastic (;-)) cover in the hotshoe is kept in place, except it's not a tight fit and I keep knocking it out as I grab the camera out of a bag. It's also very annoying to have to carry two sets of batteries when I also have the IR M1 with me -- LP-E17 and LP-E12, argh.

But here's the kicker: I NOW GET MORE SHOTS! 

I now have a totally awesome "travel" kit that I take on every hike and cycle ride, which with the 5D3 was just never going to happen. My G15 remains a daily pocket cam, but basically redundant with a good phone now. My 5D3 is for special occasions and intentional photography -- "art". The M3 is for fun, frequency and fabulous! 

I now also have a backlog in my processing.  I will post some recent results at my sites shortly.


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## sunnyVan (May 17, 2015)

dswtan said:


> I went the same route as archiea, following along on the really helpful (if sometimes nit-picky) community -- M3 by one of the well-rated Japan eBay sellers. Also completed my original M1 kit (which I immediately converted to IR as planned all along) with the 11-22 and 55-250. Really great summary by archiea, and I concur with pretty much everything. The plastic thing is a complete non-issue.
> 
> My nitpicks are few -- articulated screen feels a bit delicate to me. I used to be a big fan of the old G-series mechanisms. This seems more clunky and I feel I have to treat it more carefully. I don't regularly use the EVF (never have been a fan, but glad it's there), so the little plastic (;-)) cover in the hotshoe is kept in place, except it's not a tight fit and I keep knocking it out as I grab the camera out of a bag. It's also very annoying to have to carry two sets of batteries when I also have the IR M1 with me -- LP-E17 and LP-E12, argh.
> 
> ...



I was initially troubled by the change of batteries. But then I realized they seemed to last quite a bit longer so I am glad canon upgraded it. 

I have a slightly different approach than you in terms of what camera to bring. I bring both 5d mk3 and m3 wherever I go. M3 is mated to 11-22. Mk3 is for speed or low light. To me this is a very feasible two camera setup.


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## archiea (May 18, 2015)

dswtan said:


> I now also have a backlog in my processing.  I will post some recent results at my sites shortly.



Just to continue to what has been said with some updates:

I agree with Dswtan that when you look at the articulated screen all you do is think of the ways it can break! But as DSLR users have to remember: this isn't a pro body!! There's a reason why the xD series canons don't have articulated screens. In fact, I prefer the manner of the M3's folding screen rather than the articulating pivots of the Rebels that say "Yank Me!". Yeah the M1 felt like a pro body because it was all metal but it didn't have pro functionality: shutter, aperture and ISO were menu deep and if you break that screen there are no button redundancies. On a pro body you still have the LCD screen on top of the body and the info in the viewfinder, as long as the buttons work, for feedback. 

As far as my note on the body creaks I do notice that if I lift the left hand side of the screen when its flush there is a little creak sound, and when I push lightly on the area of the rubber grip thats between the grip and the lens ( the front wall of the battery compartment i mentioned above) I hear a tiny creak. I think this is b/c its where the plastic body connects with the internal metal frame. I note this for users that have used the M1's movie mode and expected its non creaky body's silence when shooting video. I suspect that won't be the case with the M3.

It this a little bit of a let down coming from the original M1? I'd say so, but we have to understand that this was a reboot of the M after a perceived failure. And its a great reboot if you ask me considering that this isn't a world wide market for canon like other companies.. The small enthusiast. The power shot line saturates that as does the smaller rebels.. to have the M3 even as it is, I see as a minor miracle in a market centric vs vision centric world. Cameras are no longer cameras anymore, they are hardware-based film... So the heirloom quality that cameras used to have, that the M1 almost suggested, thats gone. They are little more than Dell or apple computers that take pictures now.. ;P

One thing that I would almost have fought for was keeping the nice feeling M3 grip off the camera (what1?). People complained that it felt like the camera would slip out. I'd say that the texture on the M3 body now helps but the grip gives it an SLR style quality.. The M1's svelte powershot look made it more stealth, especially coupled with native M mounted or Leica M mounted lenses. The grip may flag folks that its more pro. 

I call it the most phalic canon on the market because women want to hold it and men want to know how many megapixels its got! 

Keep in mind these are quibbles, I don't think they are deal breakers. I do caution people who are used to sony A6000 or Fuji's speed or the micro 4/3rd's eco system, this is different. I'll dedicate a little time to explain this. 

I have a DSLR that started as a strong hobbiest, then became my work horse for work that I happened to tag along for personal use... decked out with L lenses, body straps, lens hoods, flashes, heck I even would bring a flash bender on occasion  . To other photographers, this is normal. To the rest of the world I looked like the personal paparazzi to the family dinner event or whatever I was in. Family accepted it as if it was like a handicap or birth defect growing out of my chest and hands that they had to accept. But I wasn't enjoying myself. And it left members outside of my tribe a little weirded out that there was "full coverage" of Uncle joe's birthday dinner. 

I think the problem is that we've had a boom in photography that has allowed a side economy of gadgets, thingies and stuff that makes our job easier, faster and more feature filled. Thats great. But what happened to photography? I think this is what mirror less brought back to photographers, a kinda more "back to basics". You see it with these retro bodies and lenses that have become popular. In some ways it slowed you down to stop and "smell the roses" in photography terms, which would be to think, choose & compose. If you don't catch my drift, go shoot a roll of film again. After you chuckle when you catch yourself "chimping" to the back of the film camera's film door, you suddenly realize how much photography was about planning and choosing rather than "spray and pray".

A better explanation of this is this great video of a pro photographer that shoot pro DSLR bodies, and Leica rangefinders!!! He explains the difference between the two: 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AZtj1o9oy4c

He articulates very well the problem of having "too many options", about how they become distractions. Yup, many have talked about, even BS'ed about the "Leica difference", but I think this guy does a great and authentic job of delineating the work of photography from the joy of photography. How part of that joy is the limitations and the tactile quality that comes with manual adjustments. When I see a DSLR reviewed there's always that moment when the reviewer turns on the motor drive to have a listen to the 10+fps of the camera as if to say that was part of the enjoyment. Its actually the work.. more work.. of loading all of those 10+fps images, sorting, selecting... all the stuff that should have happened at the shoot is now added to your post. Yes certain events like sports, wildlife and event shoots make this inevitable.. but you are working.. thats fine. What about the joy of photography? You take the DSLR to your next vacation and you get thousands of 10+FPS shots of your kids running around..... You're working again!! ;D C'mon, admit it, we all have.. 

I bring this long winded point up to bring a philosophy change when you approach the M3 that may make its "shortcomings" a feature to you photography. 

I always called my M1 a really poor man's Leica. To me, the M3 brings that even closer. The focus peaking and the EVF and articulated LCE and WIFI, it brings some great high tech solutions to what Leica designers see as heresy to the rangefinder world. However I see it as a bridge that brings the convenience of modern, inexpensive, commoditized electronics to a rangefinder shooting philosophy thats decades old. 

I'm hoping my next lens purchase will be the Voigtlander f1.5 50mm. Its an all manual Leica M mount lens that can be adapted to the EOS like many leica mount lenses. You think the M3's autofocus is slow? Wait until you see my "auto" manual focus! Suddenly the ef-m lenses seem like speed demons!! I always wanted a rangefinder style experience.. I've shot Leica's and Mamiya's before and I loved taking my time. With the M3 I can have the same philosophy, use the same glass!, but with the convenience of a consumer friendly tilt screen, EVF and WIFI connectivity. Plenty of sony a7 fans who are rolling like this. 

Lastly, for amateurs who are on the fence but intended to get into studio photography. Keep in mind, many studio photographers shoot slow not motor shutter, and at F7.1 or the like (hence the ef-m 18-55 variable f-stop of 4-5.6 is a non issue) and use strobes. The M3 can use the canon's excellent radio strobes just like a 5Dm3! Not the same speed and you have a 1.6 crop factor, but you do get 24MP and access to some good Leica M mount primes that are under $1K new or less used. 

I hope this helps put in better light, a more glass half full view of the EOS-M3. I've called it an albatross before because it defies the segregation of the pro and consumer product line.. and that often leads to a sell ability issue because it can't be parsed into a neat little marketing jingle. But the Japanese get it. Its big there, watch on youtube (I literally mean watch, they are all in Japanese!) the product promotion with Japanese photographers. They get it. 

Thanks for reading.


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## troppobash (Jun 4, 2015)

It seems the M3 has the same screen as the G1XMII 
plus uses the same EVF. I find the screen quite sturdy
and easy to use. 

The EVA is good too and I use it mainly when the sun
washes out the screen. Otherwise I use the screen as much as
possible to take advantage of the touch features especially
choosing where to focus via touch.

Also the M3 is now available in Australia for around $899AUD

Enjoy using the Ms


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## longtallkarl (Jun 4, 2015)

archiea said:


> longtallkarl said:
> 
> 
> > thanks for the thorough report archiea!
> ...



Whoops! didn't see this til now! yes - the main thing i'm interested in about the upgrade is the evf. i find my compositions are sloppier with an lcd at arms length than with an eye level finder. then there's the daylight issue. anyway - what are your impressions of the evf? does the image seem small like you're looking through a 20d, or larger like a 5diii? does it provide the same information as the lcd? and how does switching back and forth between the lcd and evf work, and is it fairly seamless? i assume various changes must still be made on the lcd even when shooting with the evf. how well does that work? many thanks!


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## Krob78 (Jun 5, 2015)

longtallkarl said:


> archiea said:
> 
> 
> > longtallkarl said:
> ...


LongtalkKarl, I have the M3 and the evf. I must say that I love the evf. It is bright and it's a very good size, Not sure that it's the same as my 5d3 but if not, it's very close and very bright. Outside it makes all the difference in the world. It works quite seamlessly when switching back and forth, actually, it's automatic on mine. There is a very slight lag time but when you put your eye to the evf, it's black for a moment then it turns on and the lcd goes black. (there's a sensor that is a trigger for that action, just like on the regular cameras. The only difference is there is a lag time, as the sensor on the other cams just blacks out the lcd, this one does that but takes a second for the evf to fire up. It's only a second, so it's not too bad. I wouldn't buy the M3 without it..


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## longtallkarl (Jun 5, 2015)

thanks krob78! very helpful.

best, -karl


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## archiea (Jun 6, 2015)

longtallkarl said:


> archiea said:
> 
> 
> > longtallkarl said:
> ...



LongTalkAri...

some things about the EVF:

the automatic handoff between the LCD and the EVF is slightly delayed but you get used to it. If you like you can disable the automatic handoff and use the button on the side of the evf to switch displays. It works regardless of the setting on the display handoff (auto/manual) in the menu. So just before putting your eye to the EVF you can tap that button. 

You can program the trash can button on the DPAD to turn off the LCD. it will turn off the LCD but not the EVF when its on. You have to switch it back to the back LCD then hit the trashcan to turn it off. However once in LCD mode, you can just half press the shutter or press any button to "wake up" the display. 

Press and hold the info button for two seconds and the LCD goes to 100 % brightness. This works well out in the daylight when you are under bright sunlight. The display is brighter than my iPhone 6's display. 

OK, here's the tricky part when using the EVF and the "tradeoff you have since you loose the touch screen functionality...

The two extra dials that you get on the M3 (the one under the shutter and the rotating D-pad) function to operate the aperture and the shutter. In the EVF (and the LCD for that matter) it shows you which buttons do what with little button icons next to the f-stop and the shutter. Once the buttons are operated, a dedicated display of the assigned functions scrolls across the screen. Without looking, pressing up on the d-Pad activates the iso menu with the rotating of the D-pad allowing you to change the ISO. I've used this in the heat of battle and it works beautifully. SO you an do this all from the EVF or the LCD. This makes the M# way faster to operate than the M1.

Tap on the Q button and you get the quick menu to access drive, WB, modes, etc. This is normally touch but with the EVF, the touchpad operates it where up and down lets you scroll thru the menu but gong side to side OR rotating the Dpad operates the option of the selected menu. you get used to this quick. The whole time your eyeball can be crazy clued to the evf. 

the info button toggles you thru 4 display options. Just to be clear, the dedicated Q button enables a fifth, the above quickmenu display. The dedicated menu button displays the system menu which would be the 6th screen. Getting back to the info button, it toggles thru 4 screens: 3 are HUDS, the forth is the old style checkerboard quick menu we've had since the rebel days. with the LCD this is all touch, but the D-pad operates it. This time, hitting up or down navigates you thru the different selections while rotating the d-pad adjust the settings of the selection. However for some reason, despite the redundant button use for the checkerboard quick menu, it does not display in the EVF, you have to look at the LCD. all other displays, including the menu, can be viewed in the EVF. really strange. 

The three other HUD display toggles are a clear menu free display, one with the tilt viewer, the other with histogram (you select weather RGB or white in the menu)

Here's whats nice: in the menu you can disable any of the displays, with the exception of the empty one. In other words, you can disable from the display toggle the quick menu, level display and level + histogram display, leaving you just the clear display. Nicely optioned. Of course I tried living without a histogram option for about half a day.. what can I say, I'm a HUD junkie!!

So far it seems like a win win of the EVF/LCD combo, right? well almost..... the problem starts with a small minor issue like, I dunno, FOCUS!

AHHHHHHH!!!

what is it about the EOS-M and focus... its nuts..... 

Touch focus, one of the great aspects of the rear LCD is gone... thats expected. but once your are in the EVF, you are the mercy as to what the EOS-m wants to focus on. you can toggle face detect on or off with the magnify button which switches function to focus mode when in automatic. What IS nice is that D-pad left button toggle manual focus. This is a nice change from the M1. Toggle manual that and guess whats comes up automatically (if programmed in the menu), the long sought after FoCuS pEaKiNg! !!!!! So your methodology should be that once you are in EVF, likely you want to manual focus. You an auto focus but you are now limited to either auto track or auto face detect.. you have no way of operating the location of the af tracker. You can toggle either single point or tracking with with either the quick menu or assigning that toggle to the MF button, or you can toggle wither face tracking or regular tracking with the magnify button which doubles as a focus mode selector when in AF. 

it seems that in EVF mode it will always AF whats in center unless you enable facial tracking, so I guess its lock focus and recompose. 

LCD-wise the focus is great. you can touch to focus or touch to focus and shoot. ... I find myself doing this on the 5D sometimes!!! : touch something to track and it tracks, be it a face or a detail that it can lock on. 

Manual focus with the EVF (or LCD) and focus peaking is great, but magnify and it becomes tricky with the EVF. Unfortunately, the multifunction button that is right next to shutter can be programmed to do anything including the dishes and walk the dog, but NOT activate the magnify!!!! ??? I don't understand why. So you can't one hand operate and hit magnify!!!! Your thumb has to lift from the grip and hit the button just below the thumb rest!!!! It makes magnifying to focus a two hand operation JUST TO HIT THE BUTTON!!!! Simply adding magnify as a programmable function would have remedies this!!! I can see when operating the LCD , but even then having it assigned to the multiF button would help as you thumb remains gripping the camera!!!!1

ITs not a deal killer, its more of a WTF thing.. like what were they thinking.... its like some let over from the pre-EVF days. 

the second problem with the the magnify is that once I magnify, i get focus, now how do I get out of magnify, let me press halfway on the shutter... no, let me hit the magnify button, nope it magnifies deeper... a feature that you and already do with the rotary buttons ANWAY!!!!! I have to press the magnify button, yup that button that makes me lift my thumb from the camera TWICE to get out of magnify!!!! I can understand this logic in the you select the magnify region on the LCD with you who composed, magnify, focus, then hit the shutter and the photo is taken with the composition you locked in. I do this with the 5D live view when I used lens babies. . Problem is that when you are in EVF mode, you have no preselection of the area.... you zoom, use the D-pad to navigate OR move your framing, manual focus, press the magnify button TWICE to exit zoom.. I dunno, this can be streamlined. 

For instance, on the sony alpha 6000, with sony lenses, as soon as you touch focus of the lens, it zooms in.. brilliant!! you an program faces into the system and then recall which face you want to track. Clearly a 21st century AF system. 

Either way, for me, I had planned to use some vintage manual glass on the M3 when I'm not using the canon ef-m lenses for snapshooting. the EVF and focus peaking were high on my feature list, but they have to make it so that the multiF button can be programmed for a quick magnify, leave the rotary buttons for zooming and then a quick tap of the multiF again to get out of focus... its the best way IMHO. 

Either way, I still luv this little camera. I hope this helps.


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## longtallkarl (Jun 7, 2015)

wow - again, thanks for the thoroughness of your reply! it really helps.

best, karl


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## noncho (Jun 14, 2015)

I had M3 for testing last week and it's a mixed bag...

Here are 2 samples versus M1(24mp are scaled down to match 18):
100 ISO






3200 ISO





Can you say which one is 3 years older? I don't see the point of this more megapixel/same image quality sensor...

I'm writing a small review right now and I'll share more when I finish it.


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## kphoto99 (Jun 14, 2015)

noncho said:


> I had M3 for testing last week and it's a mixed bag...
> 
> Here are 2 samples versus M1(24mp are scaled down to match 18):
> 
> ...


How about up-scaling the 18 to 24 and comparing there. With 24 you can crop more and have same quality.


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## noncho (Jun 15, 2015)

I never do up-scaling, it's not fair to compare the software ability to create 6 million pixels  

But here are ful size 6000x4000 samples:
100 ISO - http://www.nonchoiliev.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/IMG_8648_Full3.jpg
3200 ISO - http://www.nonchoiliev.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/IMG_8644_Full.jpg

I like:

+ Better AF with STM lenses.

+ Much more opportunities/button for control and better menu.

+ Tilting screen.

+ Wi-Fi/NFC.



I don't like:

– Very slow burst with continuous focus.

– Mixed results for AF speed with EF lenses and adaptor.

– No bright lenses above 22mm. It's a must for Canon to have native 50/85/135mm, 3,5 years after the M announce.


I have just posted my blog with some samples and other opinions - http://www.google.com/translate?hl=en&sl=bg&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.nonchoiliev.com%2Fblog%2F2767&sandbox=1


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## bainsybike (Jun 15, 2015)

noncho said:


> Here are 2 samples versus M1(24mp are scaled down to match 18):



Colours look better in the image on the right at 100 ISO (M1?). Is the lighting different?


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## East Wind Photography (Jun 15, 2015)

noncho said:


> I never do up-scaling, it's not fair to compare the software ability to create 6 million pixels
> 
> But here are ful size 6000x4000 samples:
> 100 ISO - http://www.nonchoiliev.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/06/IMG_8648_Full3.jpg
> ...



Seems to me the point of the M line is to allow you to use EF series of lenses. I use my M3 with 6 different EF L lenses and with the adapter, they all focus very fast...faster than the the STM lenses which are slow by design for video purpose. The fastest AF on all of my lenses is with the 70-200 f2.8L IS II. It is on par with AF speed on my 5dIII. I would need sophisticated measuring equipment to tell which one is actually faster.

The 22mm and 18-55 kit lenses are great lenses if you want to use it as a point and shoot. I dont see them making faster M mounts when all of the EF line works as well.


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## noncho (Jun 15, 2015)

bainsybike said:


> noncho said:
> 
> 
> > Here are 2 samples versus M1(24mp are scaled down to match 18):
> ...



It's the same, a kitchen light, not so accurate equipment. M1 is on the right.


East Wind,

If I want to use EF lenses I'll go with my 70D. It has better AF, burst and a grip comfortable for using large lenses.


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## East Wind Photography (Jun 15, 2015)

noncho said:


> bainsybike said:
> 
> 
> > noncho said:
> ...



So my point is if you don't want to use EF lenses with your M then maybe a point and shoot compact with a big zoom would be a better less expensive option. The reason the M was developed was for EF interchangeability. Likely the only lenses to be developed going forward for it would be big zooms 18-200 or 70-300 to satisfy the point and shoot needs. The market is so slim for it that the M3 is not even offered in the US. Costs more money to support the parts and repairs here than what they would make off sales. With that kind of market, development will be next to nil.


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## noncho (Jun 15, 2015)

I don't need point & shoot camera, I'm using M with 11-22 for wide and with 22/2 for a compact bright combo. There is no such fixed lens camera.
I need small and relatively fast native long lenses. Even with EF 50 1.4/85 1.8 + adapter M don't look and feel awesome.


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## Rocky (Jun 15, 2015)

noncho said:


> I don't need point & shoot camera, I'm using M with 11-22 for wide and with 22/2 for a compact bright combo. There is no such fixed lens camera.
> I need small and relatively fast native long lenses. Even with EF 50 1.4/85 1.8 + adapter M don't look and feel awesome.


I use my M the same way. I do have the 18-55 EF-M ($100) also. I use this outfit ( all 3 lenses)for travelling. in term of sharpness, all of them are good enough or me. I rank the sharpness as follow: 22mm, 11-22mm, 18-55 mm.
Thanks for the interesting review on M3.


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## noncho (Jun 16, 2015)

I have 18-55, but I'm not using it so often as the other 2 lenses


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## archiea (Jun 28, 2015)

ugh, this is exhausting... stop pixel peeping and sit take photos!


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