# Canon EOS R100 specifications, which is possibly Canon’s next camera to be announced [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 30, 2022)

> We have reported in the past that Canon would announced one more RF mount camera in 2022 after the release of both the Canon EOS R10 and Canon EOS R7.
> The Canon EOS R100 will reportedly take on the form factor of past EOS M cameras such as the Canon EOS M6 Mark II, which has been long discontinued.
> This information comes from an unknown source, so please treat it accordingly.
> Canon EOS R100 Specifications (Rumored)
> ...



Continue reading...


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## Joel C (Sep 30, 2022)

If this was a little video shooter to compete with the FX30, I would buy it in a heartbeat.


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## koenkooi (Sep 30, 2022)

This is pretty much what I've been looking for! I really hope it will have IBIS, but the size and price point will likely prohibit it from being included.


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## lustyd (Sep 30, 2022)

You lost me at "long discontinued". M6 Mark ii is a current camera available at most camera stores and in stock. I don't disagree that it's being replaced, but this is such a simple detail to get wrong it undermines the whole post.


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## Sharlin (Sep 30, 2022)

lustyd said:


> You lost me at "long discontinued". M6 Mark ii is a current camera available at most camera stores and in stock. I don't disagree that it's being replaced, but this is such a simple detail to get wrong it undermines the whole post.


Discontinued by Canon, of course, meaning they are not manufactured anymore. It doesn't mean that existing stock isn't being sold.


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## lustyd (Sep 30, 2022)

Sharlin said:


> Discontinued by Canon, of course, meaning they are not manufactured anymore. It doesn't mean that existing stock isn't being sold.


I mean, Canon still market and stock it themselves and replenished that stock very recently. That doesn't scream "long discontinued" to me.

Even if this spec is true, it doesn't address the M6ii market. The vari-angle screen would get slammed in reviews for video use


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## Kit Chan (Sep 30, 2022)

If it has 4K60 and an EVF accessory, then I'll be interested.


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## lustyd (Sep 30, 2022)

Kit Chan said:


> If it has 4K60 and an EVF accessory, then I'll be interested.


No reason the EVF accessories wouldn't still work if the hotshoe mount remains. Be nice to see a cold shoe on the side too


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## gruhl28 (Sep 30, 2022)

Would be nicer with a pop-up EVF.


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## koenkooi (Sep 30, 2022)

lustyd said:


> You lost me at "long discontinued". M6 Mark ii is a current camera available at most camera stores and in stock. I don't disagree that it's being replaced, but this is such a simple detail to get wrong it undermines the whole post.


With front page posts Craig tends to slip in "EOS M is DOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED" remarks whenever he can. You'll get used to it


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## jeffa4444 (Sep 30, 2022)

Im normally a Canon fanboy but unless this camera can at least match the Sony FX 30 and come with a wide angle power zoom like Sony have anyone below 30 will opt for the Sony. 
Canon are really dragging their feet and letting the side down in a number of areas which is really a big surprise. Ive bough Canon for six decades and they were true innovators but they seem to be late followers to the party these days.


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## entoman (Sep 30, 2022)

My guess is that the 3 digit name will indicate a budget APS-C model aimed squarely at vloggers and selfie takers. It would be nice to be proven wrong, but I don't expect anything innovative or remotely exciting, just a half-hearted gap-filler in the RF range. It might have a top-hinged tilting screen, but I think a swing-out reversible flippy screen is more likely, and it sure as hell won't have an EVF or even an option to add a shoe-mounted accessory EVF. It's unlikely to have IBIS as it will be primarily a vlogger device. It's almost guaranteed to come with a retractable zoom with a built-in shutter-style lens cap. It will sell in droves to people impressed by styling and the Canon name.


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## koenkooi (Sep 30, 2022)

jeffa4444 said:


> Im normally a Canon fanboy but unless this camera can at least match the Sony FX 30 and come with a wide angle power zoom like Sony have anyone below 30 will opt for the Sony.
> Canon are really dragging their feet and letting the side down in a number of areas which is really a big surprise. Ive bough Canon for six decades and they were true innovators but they seem to be late followers to the party these days.


This seems to be the R version of an EOS M200, you might not even get 'M' in movie mode, only 'A'! So this is not targeted at the Sigma FP/Sony FX30 crowd, but at the dual-lens-EOS-M-kit buyers.


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## entoman (Sep 30, 2022)

Joel C said:


> If this was a little video shooter to compete with the FX30, I would buy it in a heartbeat.


Highly unlikely, IMO. This is likely to be a novice model that will sell for less than half of the price of the Sony.


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## koenkooi (Sep 30, 2022)

entoman said:


> My guess is that the 3 digit name will indicate a budget APS-C model aimed squarely at vloggers and selfie takers.[..] it sure as hell won't have an EVF or even an option to add a shoe-mounted accessory EVF. [..]


A hot-shoe mountable screen would be a nice accessory. Not only for vloggers, but also for low to the ground, natural light macro


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## Mark3794 (Sep 30, 2022)

jeffa4444 said:


> Im normally a Canon fanboy but unless this camera can at least match the Sony FX 30 and come with a wide angle power zoom like Sony have anyone below 30 will opt for the Sony.
> Canon are really dragging their feet and letting the side down in a number of areas which is really a big surprise. Ive bough Canon for six decades and they were true innovators but they seem to be late followers to the party these days.


How can a 599$-699$ camera match a 1800$ one?

I mean the whole Canon can't compete it's fun but at least choose the right price bracket


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## entoman (Sep 30, 2022)

koenkooi said:


> A hot-shoe mountable screen would be a nice accessory. Not only for vloggers, but also for low to the ground, natural light macro


There are plenty of external monitors from Atomos, Blackmagic etc, but they cost almost as much as the likely selling price for this camera. More affordable ones are available from Lilliput, SmallHD, Desview etc. Also plenty of cheap adaptors to allow a hotshoe to accept devices with a tripod screw thread. Unfortunately I don't think Canon are remotely likely to offer a hotshoe mounted monitor. They seem to be increasingly headed in the direction of selling either mass-market affordable products, or high-profit exotica.


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## lustyd (Sep 30, 2022)

jeffa4444 said:


> Canon are really dragging their feet and letting the side down


But they have managed to use their touch screens as...touch screens. So there's that


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## koenkooi (Sep 30, 2022)

entoman said:


> There are plenty of external monitors from Atomos, Blackmagic etc, but they cost almost as much as the likely selling price for this camera. More affordable ones are available from Lilliput, SmallHD, Desview etc. Also plenty of cheap adaptors to allow a hotshoe to accept devices with a tripod screw thread. Unfortunately I don't think Canon are remotely likely to offer a hotshoe mounted monitor. They seem to be increasingly headed in the direction of selling either mass-market affordable products, or high-profit exotica.


I meant 'hot shoe mountable' in the sense of the EVF-DC2 and the new R3/R7 'smart shoe': You only need to put the monitor in the hot shoe, no extra cabling or batteries needed. Sell that for $200-$300. Bonus points for extra audio sockets in the side.


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## entoman (Sep 30, 2022)

jeffa4444 said:


> Canon are really dragging their feet and letting the side down in a number of areas which is really a big surprise. Ive bough Canon for six decades and they were true innovators but they seem to be late followers to the party these days.


Among other things, Canon have recently given us:

8K on R5
eye-controlled AF selection on R3
dual fish-eye lens
autofocusing tilt-shift lens
massively improved AF controller on 1dxiii
innovative combined thumbwheel and AF joystick on R7
class leading ergonomics
very fast roll out of RF lenses

They don't lead in every area (e.g. sensors or battery performance) but to say that they are "dragging their feet" or no longer being "true innovators" is completely untrue.


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## SwissFrank (Sep 30, 2022)

I'd actually like a full-frame sensor in this body format, and some very small f/2.8-3.5 lenses for it. Maybe even make a collapsing 50/2.8 like Leica.


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## SwissFrank (Sep 30, 2022)

entoman said:


> to say that they are "dragging their feet" or no longer being "true innovators" is completely untrue.


To be fair they were VERY late to the MILFF market and IBIS, as well as backside illumination (BI) sensor. Arguably they're now late to accept third-party AF lenses on their MILFF mount. I think they're largely caught up now but weren't the trendsetter in DR either, if I recall correctly, for quite a few years. In comparison, when I started shooting EOS in '96, USM gave them a towering advantage, and were the only vendor with pellicle mirrors, TS, and always seemed to have an extra third of a stop or a little bit more zoom range than Nikon.


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## lustyd (Sep 30, 2022)

SwissFrank said:


> To be fair they were VERY late to the MILFF


To be fair though, Sony still don't have a touch menu system in most of their range. Until they sort that out it's not appropriate to hold them up as futuristic innovators since they're stuck solidly in the 1990's. Sony are great at numbers and hype but I came back to Canon because their cameras are more usable to get the job done.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 30, 2022)

entoman said:


> Among other things, Canon have recently given us:
> autofocusing tilt-shift lens


I must have missed this lens. Or are you confusing a patent application with an actual product?


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## scyrene (Sep 30, 2022)

jeffa4444 said:


> Im normally a Canon fanboy but unless this camera can at least match the Sony FX 30 and come with a wide angle power zoom like Sony have anyone below 30 will opt for the Sony.
> Canon are really dragging their feet and letting the side down in a number of areas which is really a big surprise. Ive bough Canon for six decades and they were true innovators but they seem to be late followers to the party these days.


What are you on about? This would be a very cheap entry-level body. It only has to "compete" with "Rebels".


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 30, 2022)

jeffa4444 said:


> Im normally a Canon fanboy but unless this camera can at least match the Sony FX 30 and come with a wide angle power zoom like Sony have anyone below 30 will opt for the Sony.
> Canon are really dragging their feet and letting the side down in a number of areas which is really a big surprise. Ive bough Canon for six decades and they were true innovators but they seem to be late followers to the party these days.


Yes, yes...Canon is d00med. Where have I heard that before? In any case, welcome to the ranks of those who've been predicting Canon's d00m here on CR forum for well over a decade. I think you guys really need a logo, this one seems appropriate.


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## bescki (Sep 30, 2022)

no EVF


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## entoman (Sep 30, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> I must have missed this lens. Or are you confusing a patent application with an actual product?


It may be just a patent application, but I thought it had been announced as a forthcoming product. I need to check .
Either way, it demonstrates that Canon are indeed still "true innovators".

EDIT: here is the quote from CR:

"I have reported on the coming tilt-shift lenses for the RF mount, these are apparently going to be the first tilt-shift lenses with autofocus.

I have been told that Canon plans to introduce two new autofocus tilt-shift lenses alongside a high-megapixel camera. The announcement timeframe for such a camera is still unknown, but the source claims the first half of 2022 is extremely likely and that these lenses were to come in late 2021.

The two rumored autofocus tilt-shift lenses from Canon will be the Canon TS-R 14mm f/4L and Canon TS-R 24mm f/3.5L."

I'd definitely get the TS-R 14mm F4L if it makes it as far as production. Better for me than a wide-zoom, and huge *fun* to use. I do sometimes forget that my TS-E 24mm F3.5L is manual focus, and just hit the button, because everything looks sharp in an EVF even if it's a little out of focus.


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## victorshikhman (Sep 30, 2022)

Joel C said:


> If this was a little video shooter to compete with the FX30, I would buy it in a heartbeat.


This is an entry level or slightly higher product designed for a $750 price level. The FX30 is $1800. And Canon would never ever eat into dedicated cinema product lines, especially at this price level.


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## victorshikhman (Sep 30, 2022)

Everyone comparing this to an FX30 needs to breathe into a paper bag. This is a $750 price level entry level kit to pick up at Walmart for your significant other around the holidays. No pro's or semi-pros would ever consider this (they have plenty of serious options from Sony and Panasonic at the $1500-2500 price level), and Canon is certainly not targeting them with this. 

It really goes to show how skewed the pro and prosumer perspective is, that you are discussing specs that normal people will never need or understand. 4k60? really? This will make any difference to anyone in the target market for this camera? IBIS would make a big difference, but they won't know what it is or that this camera is missing it, just that their pictures in anything except daylight are all coming out blurry. This camera is not designed to be used, just to be bought, gifted, played with for a few weeks, and thrown in a desk drawer after the novelty or the trip to the Galapagos is over. 

And that gets to the heart of the matter. Let's be honest. No one needs this camera. Have you seen what an iPhone 14 is capable of? I mean, seriously now. You can get beautiful images with macro, normal and telephoto lenses. Stunning, high contrast, very good dynamic range, color corrected, stabilized video. And once you're done shooting, it's all right there for you, on the most connected, supported and capable device that 99% of people may ever need. And there's a new iphone coming out in a year with even BETTER features.

All the specs of this camera are irrelevant, because (in my opinion) Canon is not even trying to build something that most people who will buy will want to continue to use. They are working from the engineering and sales side down, not from the consumer side up.

The competition to this camera is not the FX30, it's an iPhone, and Canon will continue to lose, even if it makes just enough to tread water.


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## entoman (Sep 30, 2022)

victorshikhman said:


> Everyone comparing this to an FX30 needs to breathe into a paper bag. This is a $750 price level entry level kit to pick up at Walmart for your significant other around the holidays. No pro's or semi-pros would ever consider this (they have plenty of serious options from Sony and Panasonic at the $1500-2500 price level), and Canon is certainly not targeting them with this.
> 
> It really goes to show how skewed the pro and prosumer perspective is, that you are discussing specs that normal people will never need or understand. 4k60? really? This will make any difference to anyone in the target market for this camera? IBIS would make a big difference, but they won't know what it is or that this camera is missing it, just that their pictures in anything except daylight are all coming out blurry. This camera is not designed to be used, just to be bought, gifted, played with for a few weeks, and thrown in a desk drawer after the novelty or the trip to the Galapagos is over.
> 
> ...


My thoughts exactly.


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## blackcoffee17 (Sep 30, 2022)

jeffa4444 said:


> Im normally a Canon fanboy but unless this camera can at least match the Sony FX 30 and come with a wide angle power zoom like Sony have anyone below 30 will opt for the Sony.
> Canon are really dragging their feet and letting the side down in a number of areas which is really a big surprise. Ive bough Canon for six decades and they were true innovators but they seem to be late followers to the party these days.



You want a $600 entry-level R100 to match a 3X more expensive video-focused camera - in video features?


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## Maximilian (Sep 30, 2022)

Nice, lovely, cr**, d***ed, whatever...
I'm not in the market for it, so ...
Bring it on the table, so we can move on to the next body...


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## EOS 4 Life (Sep 30, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> I must have missed this lens. Or are you confusing a patent application with an actual product?


If the Canon patent applications* for autofocus tilt/shift lenses, mirror lenses with autofocus and lens stabilization, and other lens innovations became reality, then Canon would be so ahead of everyone else.
* Some may be patents by now.


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## EOS 4 Life (Sep 30, 2022)

scyrene said:


> What are you on about? This would be a very cheap entry-level body. It only has to "compete" with "Rebels".


Well, it also has to compete with the ZV-E10 and the Z30.


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## EOS 4 Life (Sep 30, 2022)

bescki said:


> no EVF


Hopefully, it will take an optional EVF like the M6 II already does.


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## vangelismm (Sep 30, 2022)

Any chances to have all the buttons and dials m6 have?


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## mpb001 (Sep 30, 2022)

This should be a FF compact to compete with the Sony A7C. Add IBIS and an add on EVF. If Canon really wanted to be bold even make a small vertical grip for it. Even Sony doesn’t have that for the A7C.


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## Skux (Sep 30, 2022)

scyrene said:


> What are you on about? This would be a very cheap entry-level body. It only has to "compete" with "Rebels".


If this is supposed to be a Rebel with an RF mount then we also need to see budget lenses.

But like viktorshikhman said, no one needs this kind of camera anymore. Most people have all the video capability they need in their phones if they're just wanting to make TikTok videos or Instagram stories.

If Canon wants to make it the next M6 Mark II then it needs to be in the same price range, and it sorely needs a wide angle RF-S lens for vlogging. Adding features like USB charging while recording would make it much easier for streamers too.


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## mxwphoto (Sep 30, 2022)

Roll this out with a compact pancake lens (flatter than the ef-m 22mm please) and it may just make for a great little discrete street snapper.


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## victorshikhman (Sep 30, 2022)

mxwphoto said:


> Roll this out with a compact pancake lens (flatter than the ef-m 22mm please) and it may just make for a great little discrete street snapper.


Not going to happen. Bigger lens mount means bigger lenses. Could they maybe do something interesting? Of course. Will they pair this with an unremarkable kit lens and offer some existing standard RF primes with an upgrade path to full frame? Yes.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 30, 2022)

mpb001 said:


> This should be a FF compact to compete with the Sony A7C. Add IBIS and an add on EVF. If Canon really wanted to be bold even make a small vertical grip for it. Even Sony doesn’t have that for the A7C.


This should be a compact medium format camera that also makes julienne fries.


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## victorshikhman (Sep 30, 2022)

Skux said:


> Most people have all the video capability they need in their phones if they're just wanting to make TikTok videos or Instagram stories



Imagine the work flow between trying to do tiktok or instagram stories using an iphone app, or this camera (with no built-in filters, no integrated music, no easy settings, multi-step upload and editing). Millions of new photographers and videographers are being minted monthly on all these apps, and Canon gets zero of that cheese. I'm not saying it's easy, but they could try to innovate something that most people might actually want to use without becoming film majors.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 30, 2022)

victorshikhman said:


> Imagine the work flow between trying to do tiktok or instagram stories using an iphone app, or this camera (with no built-in filters, no integrated music, no easy settings, multi-step upload and editing). Millions of new photographers and videographers are being minted monthly on all these apps, and Canon gets zero of that cheese. I'm not saying it's easy, but they could try to innovate something that most people might actually want to use without becoming film majors.


They tried that once, with a Facebook button.




I don’t think Canon is really trying to compete with smartphones, they can’t. They’re hoping to draw in those who want better output than a cell phone can deliver. I’m at a high school football game tonight, and while the iPhone 14 Pro takes good pictures, under high school stadium night lighting with fast action at a distance it’s not going to deliver what I want. Thus the R3, RF 70-200/2.8 and 100-500, and a Vixia HF G60 for video.


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## Bob Howland (Sep 30, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> They tried that once, with a Facebook button.
> 
> View attachment 205802
> 
> ...


HF G60? I own one of those, but I've never tried it at a football game. On a tripod shooting music groups, it works just fine. Given your taste for equipment, I'm surprised you didn't go for the XF605.


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## mpb001 (Sep 30, 2022)

victorshikhman said:


> Not going to happen. Bigger lens mount means bigger lenses. Could they maybe do something interesting? Of course. Will they pair this with an unremarkable kit lens and offer some existing standard RF primes with an upgrade path to full frame? Yes.


Interesting that Sony can make a very very small FF but can’t cant or hasn’t shown to be able to thus far. 

And I am a faithful Canon user. For now…


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## Chig (Oct 1, 2022)

victorshikhman said:


> Not going to happen. Bigger lens mount means bigger lenses. Could they maybe do something interesting? Of course. Will they pair this with an unremarkable kit lens and offer some existing standard RF primes with an upgrade path to full frame? Yes.


EF and R mounts are about the same size so why can't they make an RF-s and/or RF pancake lens ?


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 1, 2022)

Bob Howland said:


> HF G60? I own one of those, but I've never tried it at a football game. On a tripod shooting music groups, it works just fine. Given your taste for equipment, I'm surprised you didn't go for the XF605.


Bought it a couple of weeks ago. I don’t shoot much video, had been using an HF M41. I saw the announcement for the G70, and I preferred the form factor of that over XF605. I don’t need XLR inputs, handle, etc. I went for the G60 for the smaller form factor with a 1” sensor. 

Also, it appears that the G70 does not have a mini advanced hotshoe. I have the DM-100 directional mic that I bought for use with the M41 (and the VL-5 light, although I don’t use that often), and those work with the G60. 

Jerk move by Canon to not include the wall wart charger with the G60, meaning you need to charge the battery with the camera or spend an extra $90. Fortunately I don’t have to do either, because that charger _was_ included with the much less expensive M41 several years ago.


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## SnowMiku (Oct 1, 2022)

It's a shame it doesn't have a viewfinder, it had potential to be a great RF replacement of the M50. I would also prefer less FPS and more buffer time, but having 12FPS does look better on the spec sheet compared to say 7FPS. I don't think it's going to get 4k/60p at all, and even if it did it will have a crop and probably contrast detect AF only. You would be lucky if it got uncropped 4k/30p with dual pixel AF. As far as I know the M6 II is only discontinued in some markets.


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## shadow (Oct 1, 2022)

I have really enjoyed 35mm SLR's back to developing BW film, prints etc years back and a Ricoh XR2S in 80's with several lens. Fortunately the Tri-x film from 5 weeks in South America was separated in other luggage before my kit was stolen by a cab driver. I never replaced it with any SLR until an Cann Elan model in the 90's I had for business product photos, great and reliable. Convenience to me is key. I had several camcorders that were great, then the first pocket 110 Elph, and other Canon compacts, the first iPhone 3, it was convenient but low res and after that a number of smartphones all decent snapshots and videos but they all sucked for telephoto or macro. I loved Canon's products and still do. I owned a iPhone 7 a few years ago with great "Live" merged photos and panorama stitching on a long 3 month trip and shot 10,000 photos with it, all were really nice quality images and sent to immediate backup to the iCloud. How convenient to have the iCloud, as it was stolen near end of my trip. The idea of instant photos with a phone cannot be compared to most users to an extent. But Smartphones then had no macro or telephoto like a larger DSLR or MILC would give me. I will never buy anymore Apple products like a 14, as they all are built to die in 5 years and all are intrusive OS's. 

So I bought an M50 a couple years ago to use with the adapter and bargain EF and EF-S lenses I got used cheap with a 20D a friend sold me (who uses an iPhone only), which I never used that 20D body nor wanted a 90D. Reading all the "M is dead" comments here helped me rethink things (thanks) about the M6ii thread I stalled buying another M50 the Mark 2 version with clean HDMI. So along came the R10, and I got motivated to buy it, but after reading all the No cheap or 3rd party AF R lens and no $500 inexpensive wide angle lenses really, I delayed and bought a Sony Apsc and 4 lens. The Sony isn't as difficult to navigate the menu's as I read, but the touch screen of the M50 is superior, and it articulates. 

The M50 Its a great prosumer-hobby camera, touch screen interface and image enlargements with 2 finger stretch like a Smartphone. 

So today's R100 announcement confuses me further as to continue with Sony (I want 2 more inexpensive MILC cameras for video podcast rental studio on the cheap side) and if this replaces the M50 there still are no inexpensive R lens, I dislike the EF adapter alternative now and rather buy the M50 mkii instead before it is discontinued or another Sony as there are inexpensive E mount cheap decent AF lens and Sigma and Tamrom supports AF. I even looked at the $1300 6D Mark 2 today just to have EF direct and Regular HD video (I could care less about 4k, file size, editing, storage, etc). So will wait to see, but the FX30 looks interesting and could use my few new E mount lens with it. What would you (anyone here) do if you had say $3000 budget for 2 more cameras in my situation? I could buy 2 more M50's and pancake lens... and tripods, etc. I have no need for 4k, 30 min limit no big deal, no 15 fps, or telephoto birds, cars, or mountain climbing- just home studio, still life, street and urban and indoor use, and some macro. I just see the M mount lens from Canon done, and Sigma EF-M dying off, inventory isn't everywhere I notice.


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## Madbox (Oct 1, 2022)

The best part of having those wonderfully light, capable, and small EOS M cameras was not having to also cart around heavy glass. The Fuji X-H2 is looking better all the time. Thanks for leaving all your customers who invested in EOS M withering in the wind, Canon. That's right out of Microsoft's playbook.


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## Ozarker (Oct 1, 2022)

mpb001 said:


> This should be a FF compact to compete with the Sony A7C. Add IBIS and an add on EVF. If Canon really wanted to be bold even make a small vertical grip for it. Even Sony doesn’t have that for the A7C.


At $799 it should be at least a Hubble. /S


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## Ozarker (Oct 1, 2022)

mpb001 said:


> Interesting that Sony can make a very very small FF but can’t cant or hasn’t shown to be able to thus far.
> 
> And I am a faithful Canon user. For now…


IDK, the RP is pretty small. Too small can also be a liability in the market. My Olympus is very small and a real p.i.t.a. when it comes to handling.


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## koenkooi (Oct 1, 2022)

Ozarker said:


> IDK, the RP is pretty small. Too small can also be a liability in the market. My Olympus is very small and a real p.i.t.a. when it comes to handling.


What I like about the RP is that you can keep it nice and small by using the 16mm and 50mm STM lenses and if you want it to handle bigger lenses, you can attach the EG-E1 mini-grip.

And compared to the M6II or even the original M, the RP is huuuuuuuge.


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## lustyd (Oct 1, 2022)

Skux said:


> no one needs this kind of camera anymore


I bought an M6 mark ii a few months ago, along with a bunch of accessories. You are wrong.


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## Refraction (Oct 1, 2022)

Why and I now seeing ads on my ad free account which I paid a lifetime sub for????


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## entoman (Oct 1, 2022)

koenkooi said:


> What I like about the RP is that you can keep it nice and small by using the 16mm and 50mm STM lenses and if you want it to handle bigger lenses, you can attach the EG-E1 mini-grip.
> 
> And compared to the M6II or even the original M, the RP is huuuuuuuge.


RP is a great little camera. I use an R5 for all my photography these days, but I also have an RP body as an emergency backup. Small, but just big enough to be usable with a RF100-500mm, cheap, lightweight, takes up no space.


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## koenkooi (Oct 1, 2022)

entoman said:


> RP is a great little camera. I use an R5 for all my photography hese days, but I also have an RP body as an emergency backup. Small, but just big enough to be usable with a RF100-500mm, cheap, lightweight, takes up no space.


I sold my RP to pay for the R5, I miss the formfactor but the M6II and R5 have spoiled me with their features that the RP lacks.
Hence my interest in the R100. The R10 is IMO too big and expensive to lack IBIS.


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## entoman (Oct 1, 2022)

koenkooi said:


> I sold my RP to pay for the R5, I miss the formfactor but the M6II and R5 have spoiled me with their features that the RP lacks.
> Hence my interest in the R100. The R10 is IMO too big and expensive to lack IBIS.


I can fully understand that the R5 has spoiled you with features that the RP lacks. There's no way I'd be satisfied with the RP if it was my only camera.

The R5 is my main camera, and until recently I used my 5DMkiv as backup, but now I've switched almost entirely to RF lenses so I've had to get another RF mount body as backup.

In a couple of days I'm off for 3 weeks to Bolivia and Ecuador photographing insects, birds and landscapes. I'll have either the RF 100mm macro or the RF 100-500mm on the R5. The RP (bought mint secondhand) is there mainly as an emergency backup body, but I'll bung the RF 24-105mm on it, to be ready for landscapes and travel shots.

I'm not concerned about the lack of IBIS in the RP. For tele and macro, most of the stabilisation is done by the lens, and for wide-angle stuff in normal lighting conditions stabilisation isn't a problem. If the light is weaker I just turn the ISO up to 800-1000 and use Topaz DeNoise.


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## EOS 4 Life (Oct 1, 2022)

Skux said:


> But like viktorshikhman said, no one needs this kind of camera anymore


I keep hearing people say that, but those cameras sell very well.


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## EOS 4 Life (Oct 1, 2022)

mpb001 said:


> Interesting that Sony can make a very very small FF but can’t cant or hasn’t shown to be able to thus far.


The RF mount is much larger and has a longer flange distance.


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## EOS 4 Life (Oct 1, 2022)

koenkooi said:


> And compared to the M6II or even the original M, the RP is huuuuuuuge.


The Sony E mount is pretty close to the size and flange distance of the Canon E-FM mount.


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## Czardoom (Oct 1, 2022)

shadow said:


> ... and if this replaces the M50...


No reason to think so at this time. Probably Canon's best selling camera overall. Buy one of you want one. If you have the lense you want in the M sysstem, it will all last you for another decade or more.


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## Czardoom (Oct 1, 2022)

Madbox said:


> The best part of having those wonderfully light, capable, and small EOS M cameras was not having to also cart around heavy glass. The Fuji X-H2 is looking better all the time. Thanks for leaving all your customers who invested in EOS M withering in the wind, Canon. That's right out of Microsoft's playbook.


If you have invested in the M system, just keep using it. It does exactly what is meant to do, offer a small, simple system that is compact and easy to take with you wherever you go.


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## mpwolken (Oct 1, 2022)

koenkooi said:


> With front page posts Craig tends to slip in "EOS M is DOOOOOOOOOOOOOMED" remarks whenever he can. You'll get used to it


Somehow I don't see anything with a worse sensor being a replacement for the M6 Mark II. The R7 is the only APS-C camera that Canon makes that is _as good_ as an M6 Mark II, but still doesn't have any fast, wide primes available. Canon doesn't make a fast, wide prime that can keep up with the 16mm 1.4 from Sigma on the M6 II yet. So, really, the M6 II is still the best Canon APS-C for indoor talking head video, still.


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## Joel C (Oct 1, 2022)

entoman said:


> Highly unlikely, IMO. This is likely to be a novice model that will sell for less than half of the price of the Sony.


While I never said that this is what it would be, I said if it was, I would buy it ASAP.


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## Joel C (Oct 1, 2022)

victorshikhman said:


> This is an entry level or slightly higher product designed for a $750 price level. The FX30 is $1800. And Canon would never ever eat into dedicated cinema product lines, especially at this price level.


I was not comparing this to the FX30. I said that if it was something that compared I would buy it. You need to breathe kid. 
Canon, for some unknown reason continues to not innovate in the direction that it's customers want or need.


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## Hector1970 (Oct 1, 2022)

Would seem to be a good spec 12FPS mechanical. Sensor would be pretty good. I’m old fashioned at this stage and use the viewfinder but lots of younger photographers only use the screen. Nice back up camera.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 1, 2022)

Joel C said:


> Canon, for some unknown reason continues to not innovate in the direction that it's customers want or need.


So you believe that you know better than Canon what the majority of their customers want and need? Have you aggregated data from millions of product registrations over several decades? Conducted dozens of global market surveys? 

You need to stop making an ass of yourself, kid. If Canon isn’t innovating in a direction that you want or need, it’s fine to say so but really, that’s a you problem. 

Don’t presume to speak for the majority of Canon’s customers. The fact that they have led the ILC market for two decades and that currently about half of all ILCs sold every year are made by Canon (more than their major competitors combined) strongly suggests they have accurate knowledge of how to innovate in the direction the majority of their customers want and need.


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## entoman (Oct 1, 2022)

Joel C said:


> You need to breathe kid.


Referring to another poster in a derogatory term such as "kid", resulted in another poster referring to you as an "ass".

You might like to consider that demeaning other posters invariably backfires and causes unnecessary escalation.


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## John Wilde (Oct 1, 2022)

jeffa4444 said:


> Im normally a Canon fanboy but unless this camera can at least match the Sony FX 30 and come with a wide angle power zoom like Sony have anyone below 30 will opt for the Sony.



The R100 will obviously not match the ($2,200 with no lens) Sony FX 30, so put your money where your mouth is and buy the latter. There's no need to wait.


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## jam05 (Oct 1, 2022)

More junk. The M6 mk 2 is 32.5mp. Sony released junk masquerading as a Cine camera. This is merely an RF Rebel. To replace all of the other junk that isnt selling. While Sony and Canon invest some of their resources to support smartphones and a few super high end cameras they throw all the rest of their trash sensors into the other cameras. Not buying anymore junk cameras with non stacked sensors. Fujifilm set the bar with the X-H2s. Even the GX 7 m3 has a 20mp stacked sensor. Heck, that sensor is 3 years old already. You're being screwed royally purchasing a non stacked sensor. Old hardware technology.


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## jam05 (Oct 1, 2022)

Sharlin said:


> Discontinued by Canon, of course, meaning they are not manufactured anymore. It doesn't mean that existing stock isn't being sold.C


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## jam05 (Oct 1, 2022)

You dont get it. "Canon Rumors" has been "Discontinuing" the M series camera for nearly a decade now. Check the arquives. They've consistantly got it wrong. For their personal reasons. Canon has publicly stated that they are not discontinuing their popular M series. If the M6 is discontinued in small tiny markets it will be replaced by the M6 mk 3 in major markets soon


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## jam05 (Oct 1, 2022)

entoman said:


> My guess is that the 3 digit name will indicate a budget APS-C model aimed squarely at vloggers and selfie takers. It would be nice to be proven wrong, but I don't expect anything innovative or remotely exciting, just a half-hearted gap-filler in the RF range. It might have a top-hinged tilting screen, but I think a swing-out reversible flippy screen is more likely, and it sure as hell won't have an EVF or even an option to add a shoe-mounted accessory EVF. It's unlikely to have IBIS as it will be primarily a vlogger device. It's almost guaranteed to come with a retractable zoom with a built-in shutter-style lens cap. It will sell in droves to people impressed by styling and the Canon name.


There are better options for vloggers


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## jam05 (Oct 1, 2022)

entoman said:


> Among other things, Canon have recently given us:
> 
> 8K on R5
> eye-controlled AF selection on R3
> ...


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## jam05 (Oct 1, 2022)

koenkooi said:


> This seems to be the R version of an EOS M200, you might not even get 'M' in movie mode, only 'A'! So this is not targeted at the Sigma FP/Sony FX30 crowd, but at the dual-lens-EOS-M-kit buyers.


This is no more than a EOS Rebel replacement. Nothing to do with the M series at. Canon Rumors has been recycling the same M series BS for nearly a decade.


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## jam05 (Oct 1, 2022)

Canon EOS M6 Mk2
32.5 mp
14 fps
30fps raw burst mode with AF tracking
4k 30p 25p with no crop
rear viewfinder flip up
Anything less than these specs is clearly NOT a replacement


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## John Wilde (Oct 1, 2022)

jam05 said:


> You dont get it. "Canon Rumors" has been "Discontinuing" the M series camera for nearly a decade now. Check the arquives. They've consistantly got it wrong. For their personal reasons. Canon has publicly stated that they are not discontinuing their popular M series. If the M6 is discontinued in small tiny markets it will be replaced by the M6 mk 3 in major markets soon


Inaction speaks louder than words. The M6 II was released in 2019, and I have seen no evidence that there will ever be a M6 III. The M-series is so unimportant to Canon that they don't even acknowledge its existence in their quarterly financial documents. CanonRumors was very premature in declaring M to be dead, but I believe that it has finally happened.


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## RexxReviews (Oct 1, 2022)

Mark3794 said:


> How can a 599$-699$ camera match a 1800$ one?
> 
> I mean the whole Canon can't compete it's fun but at least choose the right price bracket


Its because people that post here are SUPER unrealistic and out of touch. Many of them want something for nothing. Its not unusual for folks here to think a $600 will have $2k camera features live IBIS ect. Its was the same stuff before the R7 came out people saying things like "oh well i hope it has this that the R3 has, and this that the R3 has" ect even after finding out its a $1500 body.


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## EOS 4 Life (Oct 1, 2022)

John Wilde said:


> The R100 will obviously not match the ($2,200 with no lens) Sony FX 30, so put your money where your mouth is and buy the latter. There's no need to wait.


Well, this is just a rumor and there is also a rumor of an R7 C.


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## Czardoom (Oct 1, 2022)

John Wilde said:


> Inaction speaks louder than words. The M6 II was released in 2019, and I have seen no evidence that there will ever be a M6 III. The M-series is so unimportant to Canon that they don't even acknowledge its existence in their quarterly financial documents. CanonRumors was very premature in declaring M to be dead, but I believe that it has finally happened.


They have acknowledged that 30% of their sales are in M cameras, which seems to me make them quite aware of its importance.. I personally don't believe there will be an M6 III because that camera was always an outlier to the other cameras of the M system - in other words, a simple compact, take anywhere camera system. So, I beleieve they will continue to make and sell M50's for a while yet. If Canon rumors wants to consider M dead, and wants to believe that every inexpensive new Canon camera is an M replacement", so be it. They also seem to believe that every DSLR camera or lens that is not in stock is suddenly discontinued. Call me silly, but I am not stupid enough to believe everything I read on the internet and more importantly, everything I read on a Rumors site.


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## Skux (Oct 2, 2022)

jam05 said:


> More junk. The M6 mk 2 is 32.5mp. Sony released junk masquerading as a Cine camera. This is merely an RF Rebel. To replace all of the other junk that isnt selling. While Sony and Canon invest some of their resources to support smartphones and a few super high end cameras they throw all the rest of their trash sensors into the other cameras. Not buying anymore junk cameras with non stacked sensors. Fujifilm set the bar with the X-H2s. Even the GX 7 m3 has a 20mp stacked sensor. Heck, that sensor is 3 years old already. You're being screwed royally purchasing a non stacked sensor. Old hardware technology.


Pros have been using non-stacked sensors for decades and have been doing fine lol. Also stacked sensor technology is expensive and not required in most shooting situations.


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## jam05 (Oct 2, 2022)

The sensor is the heart of the camera image processing. Similarly film was the same in older cameras. Fujifilm recently took the apsc crown from the 32.5mp Canon M6 mk 2 with its 40mp X-H2. And put an exclamation point on the apsc sensor standard with its stacked CMOS X-H2s. Canon recently announced that it would begin to roll out its stacked sensors. We shall see if Canon puts action to the words. Or continue to toss out bare boned and ancient technology.


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## jam05 (Oct 2, 2022)

Skux said:


> Pros have been using non-stacked sensors for decades and have been doing fine lol. Also stacked sensor technology is expensive and not required in most shooting situations.


Please. Profesionals use all sorts of tools. Some may use a $30k PhaseOne IQ, while others may chose an Apple iphone. A recent Vogue magazine shot of a Beyonce collection was done with analog film by a young photographer. However, he didn't pay 2021 digital camera prices for that Pentax 67 either. Old technology masquerading as new state of the art technology is one reason camera sales are in the tank and will never again be the platform for leading cutting edge tech. A smartphone has more new hardware technology per square inch. Heck, cameras do not even have internal storage. Stacked sensors are so expensive Canon put a 20mp stacked sensor in the GX 7 III in 2019. A point and shoot. So much for that BS about being so expensive. Actually being on separate subtrates, they can be cheaper to manufacture. Subtrates being manufactured separately by different manufacturers. Cheaper


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## jam05 (Oct 2, 2022)

entoman said:


> It may be just a patent application, but I thought it had been announced as a forthcoming product. I need to check .
> Either way, it demonstrates that Canon are indeed still "true innovators".
> 
> EDIT: here is the quote from CR:
> ...


However, the first half of 2022 has passed.


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## jam05 (Oct 2, 2022)

So, it's "New and Improved". Or its simply old stuff, old parts, in a new body. Similar to the FX30. Sold to the consumer as new. For $879 - $979. It will most likely be an old sensor, old amps and electronics, in a shiny new body. A few firmware lines of code copied and pasted.


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## masterpix (Oct 2, 2022)

It is just reasonable to move into one lens mount (sorry for the guy who argued with me that it is not the right way - but as we see this is the right way Canon (and probbably Nikon and all the rest will do too when only mirror-less cameras are about) took. It reduces the cost for development (need to fill only one optical-sensor design). But I think that the most important aspect is that it "binds" the entry level consumers to the brand. All in all, lenses last much longer than the bodies ( And yes! I stll use some of my old FD glass on the R5 cause there is an optic-less adapter for it), so once someone buys the M100 for a starting camera and get a few good RF glass, it will, in large, move the next buy to another EOS camera.


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## masterpix (Oct 2, 2022)

jam05 said:


> So, it's "New and Improved". Or its simply old stuff, old parts, in a new body. Similar to the FX30. Sold to the consumer as new. For $879 - $979. It will most likely be an old sensor, old amps and electronics, in a shiny new body. A few firmware lines of code copied and pasted.


The M6 is a good camera, so why change it when the only thing you really need to change is the lens mount? All in all, there is little that need to be added to the M6 these days. Well, if it could make the exact coctail it will be even better, but as a camera, for the specific needs it meet, not much to change.


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## masterpix (Oct 2, 2022)

Skux said:


> Pros have been using non-stacked sensors for decades and have been doing fine lol. Also stacked sensor technology is expensive and not required in most shooting situations.


Someone is very angry... I am not sure why though, if you have the cash to buy the R3 go for it (I wish I had, but for other reasons too), but why the anger?


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## Skux (Oct 2, 2022)

masterpix said:


> Someone is very angry... I am not sure why though, if you have the cash to buy the R3 go for it (I wish I had, but for other reasons too), but why the anger?


I'm not angry, just surprised that someone would expect top-of-the-line performance and brand new technology from what is clearly going to be an entry-level vlogging camera. I'm not interested in the R100 either, but to write it off due to a lack of stacked sensor when one is only needed in a minority of challenging shooting situations is missing the mark.


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## koenkooi (Oct 2, 2022)

masterpix said:


> [..]All in all, there is little that need to be added to the M6 these days. Well, if it could make the exact coctail it will be even better, but as a camera, for the specific needs it meet, not much to change.


One thing I really miss is the option to have the shutter button start/stop video recording. The R5 has it, the M6II doesn’t. I use the remote shutter socket to trigger
the camera, but I can only do stills with that on the M6II. 

And yes, that’s a software feature.


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## John Wilde (Oct 2, 2022)

Czardoom said:


> They have acknowledged that 30% of their sales are in M cameras, which seems to me make them quite aware of its importance.. I personally don't believe there will be an M6 III because that camera was always an outlier to the other cameras of the M system - in other words, a simple compact, take anywhere camera system. So, I beleieve they will continue to make and sell M50's for a while yet. If Canon rumors wants to consider M dead, and wants to believe that every inexpensive new Canon camera is an M replacement", so be it. They also seem to believe that every DSLR camera or lens that is not in stock is suddenly discontinued. Call me silly, but I am not stupid enough to believe everything I read on the internet and more importantly, everything I read on a Rumors site.


It's a safe bet that Canon will continue to sell the M50 II as long as people buy it. That doesn't mean that there will ever be an M50 III.

The video specs of the M50 II are not up to modern standards. 

"Disappointing 1.5x crop on 4K footage
Poor autofocus while shooting 4K
Soft 1080p footage"

-DPR M50 II review


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## jam05 (Oct 2, 2022)

The very good Sigma 16mm F1.4 Canon EF-M can now be found for $353. A lens often used by many content creators. I reckon thats a good buy before Black Friday nears.


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## jam05 (Oct 2, 2022)

koenkooi said:


> One thing I really miss is the option to have the shutter button start/stop video recording. The R5 has it, the M6II doesn’t. I use the remote shutter socket to trigger
> the camera, but I can only do stills with that on the M6II.
> 
> And yes, that’s a software feature.


Write to Canon support. They do respond. Be sure to mention that the R5 has this option. That is a primary factor in adding a firmware option. The reason that the R5 recived the "save settings to disk" update was because other prior Canon cameras had this option. I was precisely asked this question in my communication with Canon support. "Which models have this function?" Mention this on other forums also.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 2, 2022)

John Wilde said:


> It's a safe bet that Canon will continue to sell the M50 II as long as people buy it. That doesn't mean that there will ever be an M50 III.


Do you believe it’s likely that Canon will not release a single new camera for a market that comprises 30% of its camera sales (EOS M)? Or a market that comprises 40% of its camera sales (DSLRs)? Well, if so you’re in good company…lots of people on this forum seem to think Canon is stupid.


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## jam05 (Oct 2, 2022)

A 24mp sensored R100 is not it. Will not replace the 32.5mp M6 mk 2. Sorry, not this year Admin. SAR is going on a decade now with this.


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## John Wilde (Oct 2, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> Do you believe it’s likely that Canon will not release a single new camera for a market that comprises 30% of its camera sales (EOS M)? Or a market that comprises 40% of its camera sales (DSLRs)? Well, if so you’re in good company…lots of people on this forum seem to think Canon is stupid.


Canon isn't stupid.

An R in the same price range as the M50 will sell just as well, and will be compatible with RF lenses.

And Canon is smart enough to read CIPA data showing that DSLR sales continue to go down, down, down.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 2, 2022)

John Wilde said:


> An R in the same price range as the M50 will sell just as well, and will be compatible with RF lenses.


And be bigger. With bigger lenses. Maybe it will sell just as well, maybe not. Despite DPR's criticism, the M50 II sells very well. Keep in mind that Canon has mountains of data on APS-C DSLR sales and FF DSLR sales and thus has a very good idea of how many APS-C users bought FF lenses and/or switched to FF. Yet they intentionally chose to make EF-M and RF incompatible. And as we agree, they're not stupid.



John Wilde said:


> And Canon is smart enough to read CIPA data showing that DSLR sales continue to go down, down, down.


Yes, they are going down, down, down. In 2019, DSLRs comprised 43.6% of ILC sales. In 2021, it was 41%. That's a very slow decline. Having said that, so far this year DLSRs comprise only 32% of ILC shipments. We'll see if the downward trend continues as sharply.


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## Crofter (Oct 2, 2022)

koenkooi said:


> One thing I really miss is the option to have the shutter button start/stop video recording. The R5 has it, the M6II doesn’t. I use the remote shutter socket to trigger
> the camera, but I can only do stills with that on the M6II.


The M6II does have this feature I use it all the time,yellow menu page 3,"shutter button function for movies"


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## koenkooi (Oct 2, 2022)

Crofter said:


> The M6II does have this feature I use it all the time,yellow menu page 3,"shutter button function for movies"


But only for half press, when I looked at it today. Does it have a setting for full press when in movie mode?


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## Crofter (Oct 2, 2022)

koenkooi said:


> But only for half press, when I looked at it today. Does it have a setting for full press when in movie mode?


It has options for both, yes in movie mode,half press or full,Mine is set for "Start/Stop mov rec., works fine also with external remote control switch.


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## koenkooi (Oct 2, 2022)

Crofter said:


> It has options for both, yes in movie mode,half press or full,Mine is set for "Start/Stop mov rec., works fine also with external remote control switch.


Sweet! I’ll have a look at that when I retrieve the camera from the trap tomorrow morning!


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## Phenix205 (Oct 2, 2022)

Having been using Canon system since 1980s, I used to only come to this site for news/speculations for upcoming photo gears. In the last couple of years, however, I found I’ve been spending more time on Fuji and Sony rumor sites, partly because those sites are updated more often with more interesting products. While I still haven’t pulled the trigger to go with another system, the recent release of Canon cameras has been quite boring, more of repackaging old stuff than interesting innovation. 

One can always argue that Canon sells more than anybody else. Maybe just for now. Competition is catching up quickly. I’d be really interested to see the sale numbers for R7 and R10 and the two “crappy” RF-S lenses.


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## Exploreshootshare (Oct 2, 2022)

To me, the great thing about the R full frame system, especially the lenses, is that Canon added several great feature while newly designing old EF lenses. The UWA zooms got wider, we have F2 zoom lenses (and hopefully trinity at some point) the RF 100-500mm, the superlightweight tele prime lenses. 

But, for the APS-C market Canon seems to buy shying away from R&D costs. So, the two RF-s are not innovative at all and lack new features or simply a lighter design or such. And now they basically release an M camera with RF-s mount. I don't think a lot people will opt for these cameras... 

I personally think it is kind of sad...


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## entoman (Oct 2, 2022)

Phenix205 said:


> While I still haven’t pulled the trigger to go with another system, the recent release of Canon cameras has been quite boring, more of repackaging old stuff than interesting innovation.


One of the reasons why Canon is successful financially is that they do "recycle" sensors, using the same one (with minor variations) in two or more models. I don't see any problem with this, as any sensor manufactured in the last 5 years should be good enough to satisfy even the most critical user. They also "repackage" stuff in as much as things tend to get tested in one model before being passed up or down to other models, which to my mind is a good thing - I don't like being a beta tester.

Does this make Canon gear more "boring"? Well, it may be boring to early adopters craving the latest tech, but personally I prefer continuity of design, and only value "upgrades" if they either provide me with extra tools that I genuinely need, or if they provide dramatic improvements in image quality. I don't currently see Fujifilm or Sony beating Canon on either count, at least not by any significant margin that would honestly be beneficial.



Phenix205 said:


> I’d be really interested to see the sale numbers for R7 and R10 and the two “crappy” RF-S lenses.


It's too early to judge, but my expectation is that the R7 will be about as popular as the D70/80/90 series, and that will be more than enough to satisfy Canon. They'll also benefit from sales of the RF kit lenses that you criticise. Additionally there will be many R5 owners, particularly sports/wildlife photographers, who buy the R7 as a second body, so it's win-win for Canon.

The popularity of the R10 is harder to predict, but it's aimed at the same novice market as those who previously would have bought Rebel DSLRs, and that traditionally has been a huge bread-winner for Canon...

If you find Canon gear so uninteresting that you are considering "pulling the trigger", it suggests to me that you are more interested in gear than in taking photographs. Perhaps instead of spending money on more exciting gear, you might like to consider spending more time "pressing the button" on your existing gear. Practice makes perfect, as they say!

By the way, Phoenix has an "o" in it.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 2, 2022)

Exploreshootshare said:


> But, for the APS-C market Canon seems to buy shying away from R&D costs. So, the two RF-s are not innovative at all and lack new features or simply a lighter design or such. And now they basically release an M camera with RF-s mount. I don't think a lot people will opt for these cameras...


I’m pretty sure they’ll sell well, and if an R100 comes it will sell better because it will be cheaper. 

Historically, the market has comprised three groups – entry-level buyers who get a body with 1-2 kit lenses and nothing else, and enthusiasts who buy a succession of bodies and lenses, and professionals who buy high-end gear. 

The entry-level segment seems to be eroding (although it’s still numerically larger than the others), smartphone cameras have improved dramatically, and their cost has gone up as well. The professional market has also ranked in recent years. 

That leaves the enthusiast market as a likely source of future revenue. The pandemic largely spared the incomes of those folks, and Canon would like a larger share of that disposable income. Canon has cited RF lenses as a growing revenue driver several times. From a revenue standpoint, focusing on FF bodies and lenses makes sense.


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## scyrene (Oct 2, 2022)

Phenix205 said:


> Having been using Canon system since 1980s, I used to only come to this site for news/speculations for upcoming photo gears. In the last couple of years, however, I found I’ve been spending more time on Fuji and Sony rumor sites, partly because those sites are updated more often with more interesting products. While I still haven’t pulled the trigger to go with another system, the recent release of Canon cameras has been quite boring, more of repackaging old stuff than interesting innovation.
> 
> One can always argue that Canon sells more than anybody else. Maybe just for now. Competition is catching up quickly. I’d be really interested to see the sale numbers for R7 and R10 and the two “crappy” RF-S lenses.


I always find it amusing when people preface their likely trolling with "I've been a Canon user for decades", as if that assertion is proof of your sincerity. But even so, I'll bite: what have the other companies released that you consider exciting? What does the Canon lineup lack? And be realistic, not "an R3 with twice the resolution for half the price" fantasty stuff.


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## scyrene (Oct 2, 2022)

entoman said:


> By the way, Phoenix has an "o" in it.


fwiw not in eg French


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## victorshikhman (Oct 2, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> They tried that once, with a Facebook button.


That's interesting! I wonder how well it worked. The Japanese have always been strong on hardware, often the best, but never quite developed the software ecosystem of the US, China or South Korea. I hear what you're saying, that they're not trying to compete with smartphones. And look, if it sells, great, even if most of those sales results in user frustration and eventual abandonment of "the camera", and market destruction. They've dragged their feet to make cameras and advanced photography techniques more accessible and intuitive. The M50 and M50m2 menus were moving in the right direction, at a snail's pace. And Canon is the best, compared to the menu hell of Sony, Panasonic etc. So, I get it, Canon still has 50% of the (shrinking) market. And for pros and prosumers, this is really a golden era of features and options. You'd have to work really hard to buy a bad camera, at any price level. But if the idea is to convert smartphone users who want better results, let's be honest about how many of them won't understand why the new, "serious" camera and lenses they just paid $1-2k for don't approach the results they get by whipping out their iphone in 90% of situations, and how many of them will stick around for the 10k hour masterclass. 99% don't want to be photographers, they just want to take better pictures.

Edit: just wanna point out, I have no skin in this game, just commenting for fun. I'm not a photog or investor, and my opinions are worth what you paid for them. I'm in recovery from GAS, almost squeezed the trigger on an EOS R back in the day, but with my T2i and 80D going strong, with a full cabinet of EF-S lenses, plenty more learning and experimenting to try with the gear I have, maybe I can even last out the decade. Honestly, my biggest problem is just using the cameras I have. So little time in life, and carrying around bulky cameras, whipping them out and composing and chimping shots instead of enjoying family time is increasingly unappealing, though I do regret not capturing some moments later. I actually reach for my t2i and a pancake as a grab and go more often than the 80D, just for the size. Still works great after 12 years. Recently I've "invested" in some peak design products, the 5L carry case, and the neck strap, just to lower the pain threshold on carrying a camera around. If it never leaves the house, for sure it won't get used.


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## Rumours not rumors (Oct 2, 2022)

lustyd said:


> You lost me at "long discontinued". M6 Mark ii is a current camera available at most camera stores and in stock. I don't disagree that it's being replaced, but this is such a simple detail to get wrong it undermines the whole post.


The Canon EOS M6 Mark II was officially discontinued by Canon Australia quite a few months ago and dealers can not order any stock because it's listed as a "deleted product line", so I reckon it's ridgey-didge gone for good. Other countries can't be too far behind as stocks deplete. M6 fans will have to accept the M system is going the way of the FD mount, and the good old faithful EF system is on the way out too. I really wish SIGMA would throw some RF mount lenses on the market to shake things up.


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## LoisMPhoto (Oct 2, 2022)

I just wish we would get some new RF lenses. All these cameras to choose from but not many lens options.
-Lois
San Antonio Venue Photographer


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## jam05 (Oct 2, 2022)

Rumours not rumors said:


> The Canon EOS M6 Mark II was officially discontinued by Canon Australia quite a few months ago and dealers can not order any stock because it's listed as a "deleted product line", so I reckon it's ridgey-didge gone for good. Other countries can't be too far behind as stocks deplete. M6 fans will have to accept the M system is going the way of the FD mount, and the good old faithful EF system is on the way out too. I really wish SIGMA would throw some RF mount lenses on the market to shake things up.


Plenty of M6 Mk II in large markets available for years. Amazon too. Tiny small markets maybe not so many. It will be decades before Canon will have enough inventory to surpass Sigma sales of its M series. Sigma sells EF-M lenses by the boatload to content creators. There's simply no way Canon could catch up to Sigma in lens sales for their M series because RF lenses are too expensive and theirs not enough low cost. A Sigma 16mm f 1.8 EF- M is $400. There's no Canon to match at that price point. Anyone can purchase internationally nowadays. Canon even sells M series cameras on their website. Been available all year long even today.


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## John Wilde (Oct 2, 2022)

LoisMPhoto said:


> I just wish we would get some new RF lenses. All these cameras to choose from but not many lens options.
> -Lois
> San Antonio Venue Photographer


The below graphic was created by Canon.


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## jam05 (Oct 2, 2022)

Because Cinematographers used EF lenses with regularity, they will be available for decades.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 2, 2022)

victorshikhman said:


> But if the idea is to convert smartphone users who want better results, let's be honest about how many of them won't understand why the new, "serious" camera and lenses they just paid $1-2k for don't approach the results they get by whipping out their iphone in 90% of situations, and how many of them will stick around for the 10k hour masterclass. 99% don't want to be photographers, they just want to take better pictures.


I suspect it depends a lot on subject matter. People shooting moving subjects at night or fast-moving sports will likely notice a difference. I think many people buy 2-lens kits for the telephoto capability (sales data suggest they are more popular). A high-end smartphone telephoto camera tops out at ~125mm FFeq with a small, relatively noisy 10-12 MP sensor (but good computational NR that helps to a point) An M50 II plus 55-200 gives 2.5x more reach with a much larger sensor and a lot more pixels on target.


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## Phenix205 (Oct 3, 2022)

scyrene said:


> fwiw not in eg French


Thank you! People don’t know what they don’t know. On this forum, as soon as someone says anything “bad” about Canon, ignorant fanboys will jump up and down. Quite a scene.


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## Czardoom (Oct 3, 2022)

Phenix205 said:


> Having been using Canon system since 1980s, I used to only come to this site for news/speculations for upcoming photo gears. In the last couple of years, however, I found I’ve been spending more time on Fuji and Sony rumor sites, partly because those sites are updated more often with more interesting products. While I still haven’t pulled the trigger to go with another system, the recent release of Canon cameras has been quite boring, more of repackaging old stuff than interesting innovation.
> 
> One can always argue that Canon sells more than anybody else. Maybe just for now. Competition is catching up quickly. I’d be really interested to see the sale numbers for R7 and R10 and the two “crappy” RF-S lenses.


Yes, Canon has come up with those boring APS-C cameras, the R7 and R10, with a good deal of that boring, repackaged AF system taken from the R3 that is head and shoulders better than the AF in any other APS-C camera. And their last FF, the R3, with it's eye-controlled AF - maybe not perfected yet - but obviously just a repackaged focus system from an old SLR. What lack of innovation compared to Sony, which of course has that innovative new...uh...well...hmmm...must be something.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 3, 2022)

Phenix205 said:


> On this forum, as soon as someone says anything “bad” about Canon, ignorant fanboys will jump up and down.


As opposed to those predicting d00m for Canon, who are brilliant and wise and put forth calm, reasoned arguments. Except, you know, when those arguments always boil down to petulant foot-stamping that Canon isn’t making or doing _________, which is whatever they personally want and have deluded themselves into thinking a majority of other buyers want, that is spelling certain d00m for Canon if their whim goes unsatisfied.


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## shadow (Oct 3, 2022)

Czardoom said:


> No reason to think so at this time. Probably Canon's best selling camera overall. Buy one of you want one. If you have the lense you want in the M sysstem, it will all last you for another decade or more.


I have it and really like it except for the red dot on hdmi capture video. The first version not Mark 2, and EF to EF-M adapter. Just bought the 28mm macro with light, and compared it with the heavy 100mm EF 2.8 macro. It is really nice to have that built in light on the lens, focus is silent, pretty fast too. My decision is buying 2 more, or another Sony maybe the ZV-E10. Small and lightweight vs imbalance is something I feel using the EF lens on the M50. The Sigma C 1.4's 16, 30, and 56 are all same price whether E mount or EF-M mount. Been looking at Sigma Art EF prices and they are double the E/EF-M, and that is why I can't see buying the R system now. I need to maybe look at the M6 mark 2 before they are all sold out.


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## PhotoGenerous (Oct 3, 2022)

Exploreshootshare said:


> To me, the great thing about the R full frame system, especially the lenses, is that Canon added several great feature while newly designing old EF lenses. The UWA zooms got wider, we have F2 zoom lenses (and hopefully trinity at some point) the RF 100-500mm, the superlightweight tele prime lenses.
> 
> But, for the APS-C market Canon seems to buy shying away from R&D costs. So, the two RF-s are not innovative at all and lack new features or simply a lighter design or such. And now they basically release an M camera with RF-s mount. I don't think a lot people will opt for these cameras...
> 
> I personally think it is kind of sad...


I disagree with basically the whole premise of judging the EF-S line-up's innovation based on two kit lenses, and saying they aren't innovative. But at the same time I'm also pretty confident that they won't put too much of a push behind RF-S lenses as whole in the long run.

Seems a little premature to poo poo their EF-S lens design choice. You're talking about the two kit lenses. (And even then, technically, if you're comparing the RF 18-150mm to the EF counterpart, and not the EF-M version, the EF only goes to 135mm, so the RF version is "innovative" over the EF version in that it has longer reach. 1 out of 2 lenses, 50% of the released RF-S lenses, would meet your criteria of innovation.

With that said, the RF kit lens is also just a "non-innovative" 24-105 f4. And yes, Canon released a statement lens in the 28-70 f2, but they also released it side by side with a "non-innovative" 24-70 f2.8.

However, I also think your definition of innovation is too narrow. The combination of better optics, size, weight, IS (better IS in isolation, but also working in concert with IBIS), and focus distances are pretty big deals. And that's not even counting the fact that every RF lens has the innovation of having a control ring (even if for the cheaper lenses you have to choose between Focus or Control. It's still an option.)

Calling out minimum focus distance specifically, the EF-S 18-135 has a minimum focus distance of 15.4 inches, and the RF manages to go down to 6.7 inches. It's so a that level of so improved it now ranks a Macro designation, but that still a _massive_ improvement. (The EF-M version is in between at 9.8 inches.)

Bumping into minimum focus distance issues is one of the first things I had to google when I first started learning photography.

I feel like just because there is a core, basic set of innovations that are expected... changes/improvements/additions that aren't usually reflected in the lens name... that it shouldn't then disqualify those improvements/additions from being considered innovation.

With all that said, using history of EF-S and EF-M lenses as a guide (which I think is pretty safe) I am glad that Canon is doing so much in adding to improvements into so many aspects of these lenses, because RF-S lenses will be few and far between. Here's to hoping we get an 17-55 2.8 RF equivalent at all.


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## David - Sydney (Oct 3, 2022)

victorshikhman said:


> You'd have to work really hard to buy a bad camera, at any price level. But if the idea is to convert smartphone users who want better results, let's be honest about how many of them won't understand why the new, "serious" camera and lenses they just paid $1-2k for don't approach the results they get by whipping out their iphone in 90% of situations, and how many of them will stick around for the 10k hour masterclass. 99% don't want to be photographers, they just want to take better pictures.


But everyone is already a photographer now unless you are referring to a photography being their paid employment.
You just need to see how many selfies someone takes to get the best shot. They are learning quickly about lighting, composition and taking multiple shots to get people looking at the right place with their eyes open etc.

Interesting stats at https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/how-many-phones-are-in-the-world
- 91% (7.3B) of people globally have a phone. 83% (6.7B) have a smartphone but not everyone can afford the latest iPhone 14 from USD800-1600! Second hand / recycled phones are actively being sold into other markets.
- Developed countries (~1.6B people) are most likely to buy more expensive phones. That leaves 6.3B left in developing countries.
- Critically, 75% of people in the top 10 developing countries don’t have a smartphone so there is still a lot of users to get a smart phone.
- 14% of the population cannot own a phone as they don't have access to electricity to charge it.

So... who are the target market for Rebels/M series? Does a R100 fit into a profitable demographic for:
- A serious photographer in some markets vs a second hand camera phone.
- Someone who wants to take better photos than a phone can take
There is no doubt that better phone features are selling new phones as users get better iOS features for free and a faster processor is unlikely to be a motivator now.

I saw a lot of wedding photographers in China that are also using Rebels... all about making money at the end of the day.
Cruise ship photographers are all using Rebels as well but had decent lighting setups. Selling photos is a good margin for them. Fun fact, cruise ships make ~30% of top line revenue from on-board sales (pre-covid/non-tickets).


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## victorshikhman (Oct 3, 2022)

David - Sydney said:


> But everyone is already a photographer now unless you are referring to a photography being their paid employment.
> You just need to see how many selfies someone takes to get the best shot. They are learning quickly about lighting, composition and taking multiple shots to get people looking at the right place with their eyes open etc.
> 
> Interesting stats at https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/how-many-phones-are-in-the-world
> ...


In my limited travels, to Mexico and Brazil, I saw something very similar - Rebels are ubiquitous in the travel industry in Mexico. If you ever go on a boat (whale watching, drinking, etc) they'll offer to take pics of you against some regularly staged scenes, like sunsets, rock formations, etc. Same with organized scenic bus tours etc. And they get great results with those Rebels, after all that practice.

I met a wedding photographer in Brazil whose bread and butter is a 650D. Her ex stole her fav lens, the 18-135 usm, so all her work was with a nifty fifty. Replacing the zoom was a long term savings project. I happened to have the STM version on the trip and gifted it to her (I had picked it up for $80 a year before from a local guy who was liquidating to switch to mirrorless). When I got back home, I picked up a nano USM for $160 mint on ebay. We really are so spoiled with the used and refurb market in the US. Her dream camera was a 5DM3, which only a couple of the best photogs in her area used. When I told her that for the same price on a used 5D3 body she could get a refurb EOS R direct from Canon, she had no idea what mirrorless was (this is about a year ago), and totally dismissed my suggestion. In her universe, the 5D3 was the professional peak, and almost unattainable. Looking at her work, I saw some limitations, especially in low light, hand-holding a non-stabilized lens, but where I would just give up in frustration and blame it on the kit, she kept trying new compositions until she had something to offer the client.


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## shadow (Oct 3, 2022)

I looked at Canon Global 2021 financials today. Of the 3,500 billion Yen total, Imaging sales were 653 Billion Yen or 19% of top line including Cameras and are 2nd most profitable behind their 55% Print segment which is 1,900 billion Yen. Looking into the Industrial and Medical they sure have some great R&D on AI, VR, AR Robotics and self driving eyeball sensor- a SPAD sensor for Time of flight (TOF) measuring so having in-house everything include chip fab is great for the usual long term thinking of Japanese Companies unlike many US or Multinationals looking short term from quarter to quarter. They really invest in R&D at least in the past, not sure what the stock buyback will do to their future R&D budget, but after reading pages of their Global website, they have some interesting technologies. 

I noticed that their industrial super low light CMOS (4 million ISO) ML-105 cameras use the EF mount, not the RF, and as someone mentioned above also the Cinema line uses EF both have a sensor back focus the same as an SLR, right? No idea of the success of Industrial cameras demand or if to upgrade those also to RF as there are many, many other manufacturers going back to CCD's.

What I do not understand though is that why not keep the EF as with high end industrial and security cameras as they have no shutter, so the closer back focus "excuse" of the RF design seems strange other than the additional communication pins needed for firmware communication on the RF. Why didn't they keep the same EF mount so it was backwards compatible?, just have extra pins for RF advanced lens in the EF mount instead? 
Why the M mount in the first place and not stick with EF? 

I do not have an R lens to compare diameter and configuration. Maybe this topic has been covered here certainly before? Just asking.


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## koenkooi (Oct 3, 2022)

Crofter said:


> It has options for both, yes in movie mode,half press or full,Mine is set for "Start/Stop mov rec., works fine also with external remote control switch.


Thank you for pointing this out! Now I can finally use the M6II to record video in the camera trap, the f/1.4 lens should help with AF in the dark.


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## Skux (Oct 3, 2022)

Exploreshootshare said:


> To me, the great thing about the R full frame system, especially the lenses, is that Canon added several great feature while newly designing old EF lenses. The UWA zooms got wider, we have F2 zoom lenses (and hopefully trinity at some point) the RF 100-500mm, the superlightweight tele prime lenses.
> 
> But, for the APS-C market Canon seems to buy shying away from R&D costs. So, the two RF-s are not innovative at all and lack new features or simply a lighter design or such. And now they basically release an M camera with RF-s mount. I don't think a lot people will opt for these cameras...
> 
> I personally think it is kind of sad...


Canon always have and will continue to treat APS-C like a second-class citizen, giving customers just enough to scrape by while dangling the full-frame carrot in front of them. It happened with EF-S (three prime lenses in over 20 years and nothing faster than f/2.8) and EF-M (only eight lenses, three primes) and now RF-S which released with a pitiable kit lens which manages to be slower and have a narrower zoom range than the EF-M equivalent.

Yeah it is a bit sad, but I ended up choosing full-frame anyway. For people serious about crop sensor kits, there's always Fujifilm.


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## lustyd (Oct 3, 2022)

You're looking at it wrong. Yes, three prime lenses in EF-s but full access to all EF lenses too. Same with M, the lenses were made to fit design criteria around size, but the camera could take EF lenses with a converter so didn't need more. That's not second class, that's full access to the whole range. Similarly they aren't in a hurry with R lenses, why would they be, there are hundreds of compatible lenses available.


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## EOS 4 Life (Oct 3, 2022)

David - Sydney said:


> But everyone is already a photographer now unless you are referring to a photography being their paid employment.


Yeah, camera makers, such as Canon, only need to convert a fraction of smartphone camera users in order to have a viable business going forward.


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## EOS 4 Life (Oct 3, 2022)

shadow said:


> Why didn't they keep the same EF mount so it was backwards compatible?


Canon makes EF adapters that are 100% compatible.
I actually prefer using EF lenses with a drop-in filter adapter over using RF lenses.
It also allows for a focal reducer.


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## Rocky (Oct 3, 2022)

"Cruise ship photographers are all using Rebels as well but had decent lighting setups. Selling photos is a good margin for them. Fun fact, cruise ships make ~30% of top line revenue from on-board sales (pre-covid/non-tickets)."
It is a perfect tool for them. No need for "sharp" lens. They actually make the portrait slightly blur to hind the wrinkles the make customer happy.


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## codym90 (Oct 3, 2022)

I just really want some more budget RF lenses. Some 1.4s or 1.8s would be nice lol. Seems like all we got are the super premium lenses.
-Cody M
Cascades at Parks Mill Photographer


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## scyrene (Oct 3, 2022)

codym90 said:


> I just really want some more budget RF lenses. Some 1.4s or 1.8s would be nice lol. Seems like all we got are the super premium lenses.
> -Cody M
> Cascades at Parks Mill Photographer


There are THIRTEEN non L RF and RF-S Canon lenses.


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## EOS 4 Life (Oct 3, 2022)

codym90 said:


> I just really want some more budget RF lenses. Some 1.4s or 1.8s would be nice lol. Seems like all we got are the super premium lenses.
> -Cody M
> Cascades at Parks Mill Photographer











Canon USA launches new instant rebates on select Canon RF lenses, save up to $400!


Canon USA has launched new instant rebates of up to $400 off select RF lenses. Some of the savings are quite good, especially the Canon RF 100mm f/2.8L IS USM M




www.canonrumors.com


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## David - Sydney (Oct 3, 2022)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Yeah, camera makers, such as Canon, only need to convert a fraction of smartphone camera users in order to have a viable business going forward.


Yes, that was my point.... or users buying a "rebel" equivalent who have a non-smartphone today.


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## David - Sydney (Oct 4, 2022)

Rocky said:


> "Cruise ship photographers are all using Rebels as well but had decent lighting setups. Selling photos is a good margin for them. Fun fact, cruise ships make ~30% of top line revenue from on-board sales (pre-covid/non-tickets)."
> It is a perfect tool for them. No need for "sharp" lens. They actually make the portrait slightly blur to hind the wrinkles the make customer happy.


Which is my point that sometimes we think that only the high end bodies/lenses make Canon profitable but there are lower level bodies/lenses that make complete sense to buy in certain markets.


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## David - Sydney (Oct 4, 2022)

victorshikhman said:


> We really are so spoiled with the used and refurb market in the US.





victorshikhman said:


> When I told her that for the same price on a used 5D3 body she could get a refurb EOS R direct from Canon,


As far as I know, the US is the only market where Canon sell refurbished body/lenses so it makes sense that she didn't understand how she could buy it that way. 
LensRentals is amazing but very few markets are big enough to manage a reasonably priced rental service unfortunately. 
Canon Australia tried a sharing platform called Kyoyu where owners could put their personal gear for rental with Canon Australia handling the insurance but it wasn't successful and was shut down. A description of it is still available though.
https://www.gadgetguy.com.au/kyoyu-canon-brings-camera-sharing-to-australia/



victorshikhman said:


> Her dream camera was a 5DM3, which only a couple of the best photogs in her area used.


I also remember looking longingly for a 5Diii as being an amazing camera to buy one day up from my 7D. 
It took a while but I managed to save the money and get it.... quite a few years later and I then spent a lot more for my R mount kit!


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## John Wilde (Oct 4, 2022)

David - Sydney said:


> Which is my point that sometimes we think that only the high end bodies/lenses make Canon profitable but there are lower level bodies/lenses that make complete sense to buy in certain markets.


Also, first-time camera buyers generally want to start with something that's affordable.


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## David - Sydney (Oct 4, 2022)

John Wilde said:


> Also, first-time camera buyers generally want to start with something that's affordable.


Agreed but "affordable" is different in different countries. 

I got a Canon film camera back in 1997 before we moved to China with a flash but the flash couldn't handle TTL so basically useless to a newbie at the time.
Then an APS film Elph camera for a long time.
IXUS 860 then Powershot S90/95/120 etc were then perfect for many years.

My wife got me a 7D/EF24-10/4L as a present prior to a Caribbean holiday which set the whole process on fire. 
I would not expect that a 7D + L lens would be an affordable first DLSR though for most people.


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## koenkooi (Oct 4, 2022)

David - Sydney said:


> Agreed but "affordable" is different in different countries.
> [..]
> I would not expect that a 7D + L lens would be an affordable first DLSR though for most people.


I agree, on introduction, the 7D had a bundle option for the EF24-104L mk1, which I bought to upgrade from a 20D. While that bundle was a good deal and the 7D was a lot of camera for the money, it was 3-4x the price of a rebel + EF-S 18-55 kit.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 4, 2022)

koenkooi said:


> I agree, on introduction, the 7D had a bundle option for the EF24-104L mk1, which I bought to upgrade from a 20D. While that bundle was a good deal and the 7D was a lot of camera for the money, it was 3-4x the price of a rebel + EF-S 18-55 kit.


I started with DSLRs in 2009, a few months before the 7D launched. It would have been outside of my self-imposed total budget of $2500, which I set because I wasn’t sure if photography would become a serious hobby for me (clearly, it did). 

Knowing from my film SLR days two decades earlier that glass was more important than body, I bought the Rebel T1i/500D but skipped the kit lens, instead getting the EF-S 17-55/2.8 and the EF 85/1.8, along with a 430EX II flash and a Manfrotto carbon fiber tripod and ballhead to round out the budget.


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## scyrene (Oct 4, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> I started with DSLRs in 2009, a few months before the 7D launched. It would have been outside of my self-imposed total budget of $2500, which I set because I wasn’t sure if photography would become a serious hobby for me (clearly, it did).
> 
> Knowing from my film SLR days two decades earlier that glass was more important than body, I bought the Rebel T1i/500D but skipped the kit lens, instead getting the EF-S 17-55/2.8 and the EF 85/1.8, along with a 430EX II flash and a Manfrotto carbon fiber tripod and ballhead to round out the budget.


I started in 2011 and my budget was £100! It was either a secondhand DSLR or a fixed lens superzoom. How different my life could have been had I chosen the latter... I was blown away by the image quality of my 300D and kit lens.

Like others above, I too later coveted the 5D (mark 2 at that point). Eventually getting a 5D3 was a dream come true - and it gave me years of good service in return. But if you'd told me at the start I'd be spending that kind of money on a camera one day, I wouldn't have believed it.


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## David - Sydney (Oct 4, 2022)

koenkooi said:


> I agree, on introduction, the 7D had a bundle option for the EF24-104L mk1, which I bought to upgrade from a 20D. While that bundle was a good deal and the 7D was a lot of camera for the money, it was 3-4x the price of a rebel + EF-S 18-55 kit.


Strangely enough, the EF24-105/4L was not "bundled". It looked like it had been stripped from another bundle (5D?) and added as there was no box for it.
Second lens was a second hand EF-s 10-22mm and I was hooked for life. 
I am constantly surprised about how much information I needed to learn over a decade to get to where I am today.


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## Czardoom (Oct 9, 2022)

Skux said:


> Canon always have and will continue to treat APS-C like a second-class citizen, giving customers just enough to scrape by while dangling the full-frame carrot in front of them. It happened with EF-S (three prime lenses in over 20 years and nothing faster than f/2.8) and EF-M (only eight lenses, three primes) and now RF-S which released with a pitiable kit lens which manages to be slower and have a narrower zoom range than the EF-M equivalent.
> 
> Yeah it is a bit sad, but I ended up choosing full-frame anyway. For people serious about crop sensor kits, there's always Fujifilm.


Canon, unlike so many forum dwellers, isn't stupid. They understand that most photographers (not gear heads) have no need to duplicate systems. If you have 50 lenses in the EF system, for example ( I don't know the actual number) it would have been, in my opinion, a huge money losing undertaking for them to duplicate the same lenses for the crop EF-S system. So they made enough lenses for their crop systems to cover all that is needed. For photographers that wanted more, they bought EF lenses and put them on their crop cameras. They had and have no problem doing so. I've been doing photography for 40 years plus. Not a pro, but serious enough to sell some photos at street fairs. In 40 years, I have never needed more than a wide angle zoom, a standard zoom and a telephoto zoom. If I did portraits, yes, I would probably get an 85mm prime or some other fast lens. My guess is most non-forum dwellers need little more - maybe one or two other lenses if they have specialty needs. So the M system has enough lenses. The EF-S system has enough lenses. And what they don't have, all you need is an adapter to use the EF lens. Over time, the situation will be the same for the RF system. It is sad if your objective is to collect lenses. Or to show your friends your new lenses. If you visit some of the Facebook camera groups, you'll see that regular folks have no problems getting numerous EF lenses for their new R7 crop cameras. And are also buying the RF 24-240, either of the RF 24-105's, the RF 100-400 is very popular as is the RF 100-500. They are finding what they both want and need without whining and crying like babies like so many forum dwellers. For folks who are getting sick and tired of Canon Rumors becoming Canon Whiners, there are other places where can go to actually discuss and ask questions about Canon gear that you actually like to use.


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## SnowMiku (Oct 9, 2022)

Czardoom said:


> Canon, unlike so many forum dwellers, isn't stupid. They understand that most photographers (not gear heads) have no need to duplicate systems. If you have 50 lenses in the EF system, for example ( I don't know the actual number) it would have been, in my opinion, a huge money losing undertaking for them to duplicate the same lenses for the crop EF-S system. So they made enough lenses for their crop systems to cover all that is needed. For photographers that wanted more, they bought EF lenses and put them on their crop cameras. They had and have no problem doing so.



I'm an APS-C user and I agree that I've never had a problem using the full frame EF 50mm f/1.8, EF 100mm f/2.8 Macro, EF 200mm f/2.8 and EF 70-300mm.


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## koenkooi (Oct 9, 2022)

Czardoom said:


> Canon, unlike so many forum dwellers, isn't stupid. They understand that most photographers (not gear heads) have no need to duplicate systems. If you have 50 lenses in the EF system, for example ( I don't know the actual number) it would have been, in my opinion, a huge money losing undertaking for them to duplicate the same lenses for the crop EF-S system. So they made enough lenses for their crop systems to cover all that is needed. For photographers that wanted more, they bought EF lenses and put them on their crop cameras. They had and have no problem doing so. I've been doing photography for 40 years plus. Not a pro, but serious enough to sell some photos at street fairs. In 40 years, I have never needed more than a wide angle zoom, a standard zoom and a telephoto zoom. If I did portraits, yes, I would probably get an 85mm prime or some other fast lens. My guess is most non-forum dwellers need little more - maybe one or two other lenses if they have specialty needs. So the M system has enough lenses. The EF-S system has enough lenses. And what they don't have, all you need is an adapter to use the EF lens. Over time, the situation will be the same for the RF system. It is sad if your objective is to collect lenses. Or to show your friends your new lenses. If you visit some of the Facebook camera groups, you'll see that regular folks have no problems getting numerous EF lenses for their new R7 crop cameras. And are also buying the RF 24-240, either of the RF 24-105's, the RF 100-400 is very popular as is the RF 100-500. They are finding what they both want and need without whining and crying like babies like so many forum dwellers. For folks who are getting sick and tired of Canon Rumors becoming Canon Whiners, there are other places where can go to actually discuss and ask questions about Canon gear that you actually like to use.


I recently saw a review of the R7 saying ‘The R7 only has 2 lenses available’. Hilarious!


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## Michael Clark (Oct 9, 2022)

Rumours not rumors said:


> The Canon EOS M6 Mark II was officially discontinued by Canon Australia quite a few months ago and dealers can not order any stock because it's listed as a "deleted product line", so I reckon it's ridgey-didge gone for good. Other countries can't be too far behind as stocks deplete. M6 fans will have to accept the M system is going the way of the FD mount, and the good old faithful EF system is on the way out too. I really wish SIGMA would throw some RF mount lenses on the market to shake things up.



"A few months ago" and "long discontinued" are not exactly the same thing.
For me, "long discontinued" would mean sometime well before 2019, which is the year the M6 mark II was _launched_.


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## stevelee (Oct 10, 2022)

Czardoom said:


> Canon, unlike so many forum dwellers, isn't stupid. They understand that most photographers (not gear heads) have no need to duplicate systems. If you have 50 lenses in the EF system, for example ( I don't know the actual number) it would have been, in my opinion, a huge money losing undertaking for them to duplicate the same lenses for the crop EF-S system. So they made enough lenses for their crop systems to cover all that is needed. For photographers that wanted more, they bought EF lenses and put them on their crop cameras. They had and have no problem doing so. I've been doing photography for 40 years plus. Not a pro, but serious enough to sell some photos at street fairs. In 40 years, I have never needed more than a wide angle zoom, a standard zoom and a telephoto zoom. If I did portraits, yes, I would probably get an 85mm prime or some other fast lens. My guess is most non-forum dwellers need little more - maybe one or two other lenses if they have specialty needs. So the M system has enough lenses. The EF-S system has enough lenses. And what they don't have, all you need is an adapter to use the EF lens. Over time, the situation will be the same for the RF system. It is sad if your objective is to collect lenses. Or to show your friends your new lenses. If you visit some of the Facebook camera groups, you'll see that regular folks have no problems getting numerous EF lenses for their new R7 crop cameras. And are also buying the RF 24-240, either of the RF 24-105's, the RF 100-400 is very popular as is the RF 100-500. They are finding what they both want and need without whining and crying like babies like so many forum dwellers. For folks who are getting sick and tired of Canon Rumors becoming Canon Whiners, there are other places where can go to actually discuss and ask questions about Canon gear that you actually like to use.


For my Rebel I bought the EF 50mm f/1.4 mainly for portraits. It’s field of view was equivalent to FF 80mm. The 85mm would be good for those who like to use 135mm FF for portraits. For EF-S lenses, all most of us need are reasonably priced wide angle lenses. I bought the EF-S 10mm–22mm lens. That was before a smaller and cheaper wide angle zoom came out. I used that lens to shoot interior shots for a realtor, so it was the last lens in my arsenal to pay for itself, so to speak. For other uses, I accumulated over time a few EF lenses, including the 100mm macro. They work perfectly with no adaptor. The only thing to notice is which color dot to go by when attaching the lens. And of course when I bought the 6D2, I already had a few lenses beyond the kit zoom I got with the camera. All I really needed to add were the wide angle and telephoto zooms. I didn’t care for the look of portraits shot with the 100mm, so I bought a refurbed 85 f/1.8, which was cheap and does a great job for its intended use.


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## shadow (Oct 10, 2022)

Czardoom said:


> So the M system has enough lenses.



M has nice 22mm, 28mm/macro (Both are nice, inexpensive) and Sigma 16, 30 and 56 all AF. Where are the wide angle 1.8 AF RF-S????? Only 16mm FF, 2.8.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 10, 2022)

shadow said:


> M has nice 22mm, 28mm/macro (Both are nice, inexpensive) and Sigma 16, 30 and 56 all AF. Where are the wide angle 1.8 AF RF-S????? Only 16mm FF, 2.8.






The M system launched with just two lenses in 2012, the EF-M 18-55 and the EF-M 22/2. The M11-22 came out the following year, the M55-200 another year later, then they replaced the kit lens with the M15-45 in 2015, then the M-18-150 and M28 macro came out in 2016, four years after the system launched.

The RF-S lenses started with two lenses this year, a standard kit zoom and the 18-150, probably because the EF-M 18-150 was more popular than the EF-M prime lenses. Assuming Canon is including the RF-S lenses in their count of 8 forthcoming lenses per year, I'd expect one RF-S lens per year starting next year, and next year's lens will probably be the UWA zoom.


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## Rocky (Oct 10, 2022)

I am supprise that Canon did not make 15-45 as the RF_S first kit lens. For me, the 15-45 is more useful than the 18-45.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 10, 2022)

Rocky said:


> I am supprise that Canon did not make 15-45 as the RF_S first kit lens. For me, the 15-45 is more useful than the 18-45.


The flange focal distance of the EF-M mount is 18mm, meaning a 15mm lens can be made without needing a retrofocal design (the EF-M 15-45, for example). The 20mm flange focal distance of the RF mount precludes a non-retrofocal 15mm lens. That doesn't mean a 15-45mm zoom can't be made for it, just that the design would need to be retrofocal and thus I believe an RF-S 15-45 would have been a much more expensive lens, too expensive as a viable kit lens.


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## shadow (Oct 11, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> View attachment 205880
> 
> 
> The M system launched with just two lenses in 2012, the EF-M 18-55 and the EF-M 22/2. The M11-22 came out the following year, the M55-200 another year later, then they replaced the kit lens with the M15-45 in 2015, then the M-18-150 and M28 macro came out in 2016, four years after the system launched.
> ...


Thanks for taking the time to explain the history. I had no idea they spaced out M lens over 4 years like that, so most demand must have ended with the kit lens for most consumers, right? I am in a weird spot, can use a smartphone for snapshots last few years, but recently decided to get a M50 and haven't really followed Canon since the 1990's, just great 110 elph and several SX pocket cameras since then and was shocked after buying the M50 to find out from you guys posting here that the M mount is an orphan product with no future siblings. Highly discouraging to me as I really like the small size, weight and price is excellent, hoping they would continue with faster lens (Sigma has M's for how much longer?) and even though Canon's official video on R7/10 release stated differently about still selling it, they are moving to the R mount on newer small cameras like this R100. 

I recall my Uncle bought in Japan on a vacation a really small SLR in early 70's, likely a similar sized film SLR equal size or less than M50 but no idea of which brand Mamiya or other. My father took it on a long backpacking trip with us, unlike any normal sized SLR of the day, super convenient. Small cameras make it easy to use as a non-pro like myself.


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## lustyd (Oct 11, 2022)

shadow said:


> hoping they would continue with faster lens


You may be missing the point. M has all the lenses it needs because M lenses are required to be a specific diameter (60.9mm). They are compact to match the compact camera. If you want a faster lens, use one of the hundreds of EF or EF-S with your M as these don't have that limitation. You then won't have a compact system though, because the fast lens will be way bigger than the camera. If you moved to RF mount you'd have the exact same issue, small RF-S lenses will be limited by size and the larger RF lenses will be larger. Just because the lenses don't need a converter, the problem doesn't change. Small lenses have limitations because they are small, and large lenses without those limitations are large. Your M50 will last many years, buy the EF, EF-s and EF-m lenses you want and enjoy it.


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## Bob Howland (Oct 11, 2022)

shadow said:


> I recall my Uncle bought in Japan on a vacation a really small SLR in early 70's, likely a similar sized film SLR equal size or less than M50 but no idea of which brand Mamiya or other. My father took it on a long backpacking trip with us, unlike any normal sized SLR of the day, super convenient. Small cameras make it easy to use as a non-pro like myself.


The original Olympus OM-1??


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## unfocused (Oct 12, 2022)

shadow said:


> I recall my Uncle bought in Japan on a vacation a really small SLR in early 70's, likely a similar sized film SLR equal size or less than M50 but no idea of which brand Mamiya or other. My father took it on a long backpacking trip with us, unlike any normal sized SLR of the day, super convenient. Small cameras make it easy to use as a non-pro like myself.


I’m always surprised at how small SLRs were in general compared to DSLRs.


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## jeffa4444 (Oct 13, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> Yes, yes...Canon is d00med. Where have I heard that before? In any case, welcome to the ranks of those who've been predicting Canon's d00m here on CR forum for well over a decade. I think you guys really need a logo, this one seems appropriate.
> 
> View attachment 205798


I think you gotta head of yourself! I never said Canon were *******, never said I’m jumping ship (I’m not) I’m merely suggesting there are areas Canon needs to catch up on.


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## shadow (Oct 17, 2022)

Bob Howland said:


> The original Olympus OM-1??


The 5.6" width seems about right. It was larger than my cigarette pack 110 or SX750 and I don't recall a shoe on the top. Today looking at some really nice YT videos, I discovered the Mamiya Sekor model I used in high school, it was a 500DTL. But don't recall the SLR make or model from 73' I used for Jr Hi yearbook schools camera we shared. The Lens-db website I saw too, what nice resources some people have compiled!


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## shadow (Oct 17, 2022)

lustyd said:


> You may be missing the point. M has all the lenses it needs because M lenses are required to be a specific diameter (60.9mm). They are compact to match the compact camera. If you want a faster lens, use one of the hundreds of EF or EF-S with your M as these don't have that limitation. You then won't have a compact system though, because the fast lens will be way bigger than the camera. If you moved to RF mount you'd have the exact same issue, small RF-S lenses will be limited by size and the larger RF lenses will be larger. Just because the lenses don't need a converter, the problem doesn't change. Small lenses have limitations because they are small, and large lenses without those limitations are large. Your M50 will last many years, buy the EF, EF-s and EF-m lenses you want and enjoy it.


I do have the $250 EF to EF-M adapter. The 20D lens stuff I bought used has what I discovered are not greatest lens as far as speed and value. The 17-85 EF-S F4-5.6, 75-300 EF F4-5.6 seem to rated low resale value, but the EF 100mm 2.8 macro is the best of the (3). They all are like gigantic imbalanced lens on the M50 though. I bought the 50 F1.8 stm new recently. I love the EF-M 22 F2 and EF-M 28mm Macro both I really like. I haven't decided on the Sigma EF-M 16mm F 1.4 yet. I am stuck, all I know is I don't have $1500-2000 for a large FF fast prime! I love the M50 and still thinking of buying another one at $700 as a back up before they disappear but feel the dead end. The online stores say "close out" now on EF-M sigmas. I have waited on R10, and got the Sony A6400 with newest 11mm F 1.8, instead for now but the menu's suck.


unfocused said:


> kI’m always surprised at how small SLRs were in general compared to DSLRs.


The circuit boards on the 20D I noticed are stuffed in and ribbon cables remind me of laptops, a nightmare not to repair yourself.


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## Michael Clark (Oct 17, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> The flange focal distance of the EF-M mount is 18mm, meaning a 15mm lens can be made without needing a retrofocal design (the EF-M 15-45, for example). The 20mm flange focal distance of the RF mount precludes a non-retrofocal 15mm lens. That doesn't mean a 15-45mm zoom can't be made for it, just that the design would need to be retrofocal and thus I believe an RF-S 15-45 would have been a much more expensive lens, too expensive as a viable kit lens.



Looking at the block diagram of the EF-M 15-45mm with a negative front group and two positive back elements, it's fairly obvious that the lens has a retrofocus design.






Other than the lower complexity of the front group (probably due to the recent increased acceptability of post image capture distortion correction), it's a design similar to the various EF-S 18-55mm lenses.






That's not to say that it can't be done, because it certainly can, but Canon didn't do it with the EF-M 15-45mm.

The registration distance is not as critical for MILCs as it was for SLRs, as the rear of the lens can protrude into the light box of the camera without concern for mirror clearance issues. It's entirely possible to make a non-retrofocus 15mm lens that fits on an EOS-M with 18mm registration distance as long as one is willing to allow many of the lens' optical elements to be positioned behind the flange. This does constrain the design in terms of the allowable diameters of the lens elements behind the flange, which could affect edge performance due to the angles involved between the rear element and the edges/corners of the sensor. But with a smaller APS-C sensor, this is less of a concern than with a full frame camera having the same or similar registration distance and throat diameter, both in terms of the angle of light rays from the rear element to the sensor and in terms of the angle of view from which the front of the lens needs to collect light.

Having said all of that, it's not _*impossible*_ to make a non-retrofocus design 15mm lens for the RF mount with a 20mm registration distance. It's just more difficult and a theoretical maximum possible performance would be less than for a similar EF-M 15mm lens. The larger 54mm throat diameter of the RF mount vs. the 47mm throat diameter of the EF-M mount would help some in that respect. But the difference in diameter of the image circle needed (≈43.5mm vs. ≈26.9mm) would more than offset the throat diameter advantage.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 17, 2022)

Michael Clark said:


> Looking at the block diagram of the EF-M 15-45mm with a negative front group and two positive back elements, it's fairly obvious that the lens has a retrofocus design.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for correcting my error.

If that’s the case, I really wonder why Canon opted to make the RF-S 18-45mm, instead of the ‘classic’ 18-55mm APS-C kit zoom or a 15-45mm design like the updated M kit lens (which IMO is a more useful walkaround range on APS-C)?

The answer that comes to mind is to encourage crop R kit lens owners to buy more lenses to expand that limited focal range. That sounds Canon-like…


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## Rocky (Oct 18, 2022)

EF_M 15-45 already has the back element goes outside of the mount. It is a good thing that Canon is having additional protection sticks out of the mount to protect the rear element


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## Michael Clark (Oct 19, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> Thanks for correcting my error.
> 
> If that’s the case, I really wonder why Canon opted to make the RF-S 18-45mm, instead of the ‘classic’ 18-55mm APS-C kit zoom or a 15-45mm design like the updated M kit lens (which IMO is a more useful walkaround range on APS-C)?
> 
> The answer that comes to mind is to encourage crop R kit lens owners to buy more lenses to expand that limited focal range. That sounds Canon-like…



The EF-M 15-45mm does benefit significantly from the closer registration distance compared to the EF-S mount 18-55mm lenses. With the rear elements closer to the sensor, it allows them to be significantly larger than the rear elements of the EF-S 18-55mm lenses. This allows more light to fall on the edge of the sensor at straighter angles. At least in theory you get better edge resolution and less light falloff compared to an EF-S zoom that is 15mm on the wide end.

Only Canon knows for sure why they made the decision regarding the RF-S kit lens' focal length range. It could be more of a marketing department decision, or there may be a compelling technical reason that affects either performance or manufacturing cost and thus the ratio between performance and cost. Based on past observations, it seems Canon tends to begin the design process by deciding how much a lens or body will cost to manufacture and then designing something with acceptable performance to meet that goal. What they consider acceptable, both in terms of price and performance, seems to shift based on competitive conditions in the marketplace.

Maybe they decided an RF-S 15-45mm would be too expensive to be competitive in the market space a future lower end entry level APS-C body might be aimed at? One of the biggest knocks many had against Canon's "budget" EOS RP was that the original kit offered which included the RF 24-105/4 when the RP was announced in 2019 was almost double the price of the body only ($2,399 vs $1,299). Even with current pricing and paired with the non-L variable aperture STM lens introduced a year later in 2020, the RP with RF 24-105mm f/4-7.1 STM lens kit is 130% the cost of the body only option ($1,299 vs $999 = +$300). Compare that to contemporary Rebels. The 18-55mm kit was typically only $150 more than the body only. The Rebel T8i/850D announced in early 2020 was $749 for the body and $899 for the single 18-55mm lens kit. (All prices in USD from authorized dealers in the U.S.) Sure, the 24-105/4-7.1 is a FF lens and the 18-55mm isn't, but when the FF body doesn't cost that much more than a Rebel (and _less_ than an 80D or 90D at the time), all some folks can see is price. I can remember not that long ago when temporary "instant rebates" would put the price of a Rebel kit with 18-55mm below the body only option. (Yes, those days are probably gone forever.)

But a difference between 18mm and 20mm registration distance isn't that significant when the sensor/image circle is the same size. The real difference between the requirements for an RF vs. EF-M lens design is the 61% larger required diameter of the image circle, not a 2mm difference in flange distance. As long as the rear element is smaller than the throat diameter restriction of the larger RF-S mount, they could let the rear element protrude 2mm further and use the same design for an EF-M and RF-S design. 

The need to accommodate sensor movement requiring a larger image circle for APS-C RF bodies with IBIS, such as the R7, might also have come into play.


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## Michael Clark (Oct 19, 2022)

David - Sydney said:


> Interesting stats at https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/how-many-phones-are-in-the-world
> - *91% (7.3B) of people globally have a phone.* 83% (6.7B) have a smartphone but not everyone can afford the latest iPhone 14 from USD800-1600! Second hand / recycled phones are actively being sold into other markets.
> - Developed countries (~1.6B people) are most likely to buy more expensive phones. That leaves 6.3B left in developing countries.
> - Critically, 75% of people in the top 10 developing countries don’t have a smartphone so there is still a lot of users to get a smart phone.
> - *14% of the population cannot own a phone* as they don't have access to electricity to charge it.



91% of people globally have a phone, but 14% can't own one because they have no way to charge it?


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## koenkooi (Oct 19, 2022)

Michael Clark said:


> [..]
> But a difference between 18mm and 20mm registration distance isn't that significant when the sensor/image circle is the same size. The real difference between the requirements for an RF vs. EF-M lens design is the 61% larger required diameter of the image circle, not a 2mm difference in flange distance. As long as the rear element is smaller than the throat diameter restriction of the larger RF-S mount, they could let the rear element protrude 2mm further and use the same design for an EF-M and RF-S design. The need to accommodate sensor movement requiring a larger image circle for APS-C RF bodies with IBIS, such as the R7, might also have come into play.


I wonder how much room there practically is, the C70 and R5C have builtin ND filters in that space. It could mean that the C variants are declared incompatible with RF-S if such a lens appears.


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## koenkooi (Oct 19, 2022)

Michael Clark said:


> 91% of people globally have a phone, but 14% can't own one because they have no way to charge it?


I initially thought they meant "phones" to include landlines, but the article is only about wireless phones. I guess they are subtly implying we're at 105% occupancy rate already here on earth?


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## Michael Clark (Oct 19, 2022)

koenkooi said:


> I wonder how much room there practically is, the C70 and R5C have builtin ND filters in that space. It could mean that the C variants are declared incompatible with RF-S if such a lens appears.



I don't do dedicated video cameras at all. I don't shoot video with my stills cameras other than occasionally for personal use. So I've not looked at or used any of those cameras with built-in physical ND filters. 

But as long as the ND filter mechanisms are fairly close in front of the sensor's permanent filter stack, which is typically no more than 2mm thick for most manufacturers, there should still be plenty of room to let a lens protrude up to about 10mm behind the flange for an 18mm registration distance?


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## David - Sydney (Oct 19, 2022)

Michael Clark said:


> 91% of people globally have a phone, but 14% can't own one because they have no way to charge it?


on the surface that does seem strange but the stats were referenced from different sources. I was copied the headline stats for simplicity.
https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/how-many-phones-are-in-the-world
Feel free to dive deeper on their website and go to their listed sources.


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## Michael Clark (Oct 19, 2022)

David - Sydney said:


> on the surface that does seem strange but the stats were referenced from different sources. I was copied the headline stats for simplicity.
> https://www.bankmycell.com/blog/how-many-phones-are-in-the-world
> Feel free to dive deeper on their website and go to their listed sources.



I'm guessing the 14% figure is for the population of those less developed countries, but was hoping you could enlighten us in that respect.


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## David - Sydney (Oct 20, 2022)

Michael Clark said:


> I'm guessing the 14% figure is for the population of those less developed countries, but was hoping you could enlighten us in that respect.


from the source....
"Not everyone likely has their own phone, however: there are an estimated 1.1 billion people in the world who don’t have access to electricity, meaning charging a phone, let alone owning one, would likely be difficult. Most likely, some people have more than one device for work and personal reasons, or to save on international calls. And presumably, there are millions of infants who, hopefully, don’t have phones yet."


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## photophil (Nov 2, 2022)

So, with the R6II now being old news, any educated guesses on when Canon might announce the R100?


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## shadow (Nov 3, 2022)

photophil said:


> So, with the R6II now being old news, any educated guesses on when Canon might announce the R100?


Fwiw I noticed after reading past announcements after Fall, new releases are in 1st quarter like February.


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## koenkooi (Nov 3, 2022)

shadow said:


> Fwiw I noticed after reading past announcements after Fall, new releases are in 1st quarter like February.


Other rumour sites have been saying Q1 2023 with their first mentions of the R100 at the start of this year. In the vein of '2 wrongs can make a right', do 2 rumours make a fact?


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## shadow (Nov 3, 2022)

koenkooi said:


> Other rumour sites have been saying Q1 2023 with their first mentions of the R100 at the start of this year. In the vein of '2 wrongs can make a right', do 2 rumours make a fact?


Sure, why not given enough rumors combined and they become fact. lol. Just like perception is stronger than evidence to some. hahaha.


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