# Full Specifications for the Canon EOS Rebel SL2



## rs (Jun 27, 2017)

EOS 200D

Number of effective pixels: 24.2 million pixels (Total number of pixels: 25.8 million pixels)
Video engine DIGIC 7
Dual pixel CMOS AF
Distance measurement point: 9 points (central one point cross distance measurement)
Viewfinder ratio of viewfinder: about 95% for up / down / left / right
Viewfinder magnification: 0.87 times
Back Liquid Crystal: Touch Panel Compatible Variedangle Liquid Crystal (3.0 inch, 1.04 million dots)
Continuous: Up to 5 frames per second (up to about 3.5 frames / sec when servo AF is set for Live View shooting)
Standard ISO: 100-25600 (extended ISO: 51200 [H])
Shutter speed: 1/4000 to 30 seconds, Valve, strobe synchronization Maximum shutter speed 1/200 seconds
Video: Full HD, 5 axis electronic image stabilization
Wi-Fi · Bluetooth · NFC installed
Battery: LP-E 17
Number of storable pictures: approx. 840 pictures (when viewfinder shooting)
Media: SD / SDHC / SDXC card (UHS-I card compatible)
Size: 122.4 x 92.6 x 69.8 mm
Weight: 406 g (body only - black), 453 g (including battery and SD card), 407 g (body only - white), 409 g (body only - silver)
British price: 579 pounds body (black), 68-55 mm III kit (black) 649 pounds, 18-55 mmf / 4-5.6 kit (black, white and silver) 679 pounds

Source: Nokishita
https://translate.googleusercontent.com/translate_c?act=url&depth=3&hl=en&ie=UTF8&nv=1&prev=_t&rurl=translate.google.com&sl=auto&sp=nmt4&tl=en&u=http://www.nokishita-camera.com/2017/06/eos-kiss-x7_27.html%3Fm%3D0&usg=ALkJrhivpChWnxxBap5GlnMGxkShzVymJw


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## Maximilian (Jun 27, 2017)

*Re: Full EOS 200D specs*



rs said:


> Distance measurement point: 9 points (central one point cross distance measurement)


Meh!

That would mean, that they'll keep the old AF system. (Not even giving it all cross point)
An AF system that was old, when the 100D was introduced in 2013.

That'll put me out of the buy list at once. And I was really interested.

Ridiculous!


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## rs (Jun 27, 2017)

*Re: Full EOS 200D specs*



Maximilian said:


> rs said:
> 
> 
> > Distance measurement point: 9 points (central one point cross distance measurement)
> ...



As far as I know, Canon first used a 9 point AF system back in the 20D - which dates from August 2004


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## Woody (Jun 27, 2017)

*Re: Full EOS 200D specs*



rs said:


> EOS 200D
> Distance measurement point: 9 points (central one point cross distance measurement)



Shocking!

What is Canon thinking? Sigh...


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## Maximilian (Jun 27, 2017)

*Re: Full EOS 200D specs*



rs said:


> ...
> As far as I know, Canon first used a 9 point AF system back in the 20D - which dates from August 2004


Even when you only look at the consumer Rebels/xxxDs this was a really old AF system.
Outdated when the 100D was released. I cannot believe Canon is doing this (as said in the other thread, too)
I'm still hoping :-\
*sigh* 
Ridiculous! Simply ridiculous! :


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## Sporgon (Jun 27, 2017)

*Re: Full EOS 200D specs*



rs said:


> Maximilian said:
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> > rs said:
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Yes but this 9 point AF system will most probably "close the loop" on the focusing as the 6D does. Thus I imagine it will have the increased precision that the 6D has over the 5DII for instance. 

If this is the case, and if the UK price of this camera body is correct, then I have no issues with the 9 point system in a camera like this at all. I just have to remember that if I'm using a single orientation point I have to find suitable orientation ! Also, personally I have found that if you want points that are guaranteed to not be confused you need + and x points combined anyway. A simple "+" point is no guarantee of finding the phase in all situations.


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## aceflibble (Jun 27, 2017)

Looks like it'll be a top-notch vlogger body. That's most of the features of a GH4 but at a lower price new than a GH4 is used; it doesn't have 4K, but the average YouTuber isn't publishing in 4K anyway. Under £600 (probably £550 street) for a touch screen, IBIS, and the full trio of wireless connectivity is a solid deal. It may not be so impressive for stills, but at that price there's not actually that much which can beat it. A used 70D or 7D is around that same price point and may have better AF but base image quality is most likely lower (Canon's last few 24mp APS-C sensors & DIGIC 7 bodies have blown the 7D out the water in image quality) and there's a helluva lot of people out there who would rather buy a new 'lower' model than a 5-year-old used body. 

Seems like a good package. Get a compact-ish all-purpose zoom on it (Sigma 17-70 OS Macro comes to mind) and that's a top budget-concious video combination and a decent-enough stills pair for the money.


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## pwp (Jun 27, 2017)

rs said:


> Distance measurement point: 9 points (central one point cross distance measurement)



Whoa! Extraordinary decision. Canon passed on the one significant item that would have lifted the SL-2 into competitive and functional relevance. Jeez this AF array felt dated on my 20D in 2004. They've just condemned this potentially great little camera to immediate irrelevance for stills shooters. Sigh....

-pw


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## Sporgon (Jun 27, 2017)

pwp said:


> rs said:
> 
> 
> > Distance measurement point: 9 points (central one point cross distance measurement)
> ...



You're joking, right ?

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=23146.45

All shot with the 9 point AF of a 6D


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## Sharlin (Jun 27, 2017)

Given that Canon gave even the 800D the 45pt AF system, it's admittedly surprising that the 200D only got the 10-year-old sensor that's otherwise only alive in the cheapest-of-the-cheapest 1300D. It doesn't seem to be congruent with the rest of the feature set either. Also, given that DPAF is so much better with tracking, face detection, off-center autofocus, I can't help but think that Canon has data that the target audience uses this mostly in LV. But, for those people, why bother with a DSLR at all? That's what the M cameras are for.


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## pwp (Jun 27, 2017)

Sporgon said:


> pwp said:
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> > rs said:
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Yes that's nice work, especially with a 6D which was never pitched as an action camera. But no, I'm certainly not joking. For a higher keeper rate, quicker, accurate AF point placement and avoidance of focus/recompose, a big spread of AF points is a meaningful advantage. Do you suppose the 7DII, 5D4, 1DXII and practically all Nikons have a big spread of AF points as nothing more than a marketing tool? It's because they're USEFUL. Canon have a crowded parts bin with ready to go AF systems. Even the 19 point AF from the old 7D would have been vastly more welcome than the ancient 9 point. 

Shooting action with the 9 point, you'd never use anything but the centre point. It's not solely action shooters who lose out with a 9 point array, it's anyone shooting with long lenses, anyone using wide aperture lenses like the 85 f/1.2 who require ultra precision AF point placement, macro shooters, many landscape shooters and practically all portrait shooters. I'm not saying you can't get your shots successfully with the 9 point, it's just that any increase in AF points delivers deeply enhanced usability. Same with the number of cross-type points. Cross-type AF points rock. Don't underestimate their power. That's largely why that centre AF point in the 6D for example is so darn good. A broad spread of cross-type AF points simply gives you a great tool to come home with more great shots. Who doesn't want that? 

It just seems like a lost opportunity to lift a decent little camera up to another level. 

-pw


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## dak723 (Jun 27, 2017)

I'll definitely be looking into getting this camera. 9 points is plenty for those of us shooting center point the majority of the time, and enough for focus recompose for every other situation that I shoot (mainly landscapes). Will make a perfect compliment to my M5 when I want the OVF and better battery life. Thank you Canon for still giving avid enthusiasts a relatively simple camera without the many needless bells and whistles that landscape still shooters don't need.


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## bsbeamer (Jun 27, 2017)

"Video: Full HD, 5 axis electronic image stabilization"

Curious how well this performs. First Canon DSLR body with IBIS?


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## Sharlin (Jun 27, 2017)

bsbeamer said:


> "Video: Full HD, 5 axis electronic image stabilization"
> 
> Curious how well this performs. First Canon DSLR body with IBIS?



NO NO NO how many times people have to be told 

This is electronic video stabilization - the sensor does not move. Same as all other new Canon cameras. Lens IS is combined with cropping every frame a bit in response to vibrations. It does nothing in stills mode.


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## bsbeamer (Jun 27, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> bsbeamer said:
> 
> 
> > "Video: Full HD, 5 axis electronic image stabilization"
> ...




Not saying it does anything in stills mode. Am curious how well this performs and will wait to see footage examples. They make tech improvements all the time and this iteration may be more usable than other/previous versions. If it's less Warp Stabilizer and more ReelSteady it could be a nice feature in a very small camera body for some usage.

Still, do believe this is the first "DSLR" with this "feature" included. Believe only the Canon mirrorless options included this.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 27, 2017)

bsbeamer said:


> Still, do believe this is the first "DSLR" with this "feature" included. Believe only the Canon mirrorless options included this.



The 6DII will also have it, so perhaps a tie for first?


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## minaz (Jun 27, 2017)

*Wonder how AF will compare to the M5*

I'm going to guess it will be better than the M5 for low-light anyway, but otherwise how would 9 PD AF / 1 Cross-type compare to 49 on-sensor PD with contrast detect AF (for the M5)?


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## Sporgon (Jun 27, 2017)

pwp said:


> A broad spread of cross-type AF points simply gives you a great tool to come home with more great shots. Who doesn't want that?



I would imagine people who would rather save £100 or so. The camera is well priced in UK, and those that are looking to buy a dslr at this price level will be very price conscious.


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## Maximilian (Jun 27, 2017)

Sporgon said:


> pwp said:
> 
> 
> > A broad spread of cross-type AF points simply gives you a great tool to come home with more great shots. Who doesn't want that?
> ...


They could have taken the all cross type module of the T5i at least. But still this would have been a bad joke. 
This is the first time where I seriously say: "Stupid Canon!"
Good thing: I can spend my money on something else.


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## magarity (Jun 27, 2017)

rs said:


> Size: 122.4 x 92.6 x 69.8 mm
> Weight: 406 g


People, look how tiny the thing is! Of course they can only fit 9 AF points in there. Geez, who knows how much size and weight the full 45 AF system would add.


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## unfocused (Jun 27, 2017)

Autofocus points are overrated. 

Seriously, they are never in exactly the right place, the spread is always too small and lots of times with sports or birds, I find I'm better off just sticking to the center points anyway.

Besides, this is not a replacement or even a companion to a 1DX II. For enthusiasts, it's a little body to throw into the bike bag or backpack when you don't want to carry a big boy camera. For beginners, it's a basic DSLR that will produce outstanding pictures in a tiny package.

I'm not going to rush out and pre-order this. But, when it shows up in the refurbished store a year from now, I'll consider picking one up and pairing it with whichever of the new Sigma or Tamron 400 light zooms that has the better sharpness.


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## Khalai (Jun 27, 2017)

Sporgon said:


> pwp said:
> 
> 
> > A broad spread of cross-type AF points simply gives you a great tool to come home with more great shots. Who doesn't want that?
> ...



SL2 typical users are going to use Vari-Angle + Touch DPAF anyway IMHO, Canon could simply omit OVF entirely and just make M7 with EF-S mount


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## foo (Jun 27, 2017)

Sporgon said:


> The camera is well priced in UK, and those that are looking to buy a dslr at this price level will be very price conscious.



Disappointing that it's within spitting distance of the cost of the 750D when it was released a couple of years ago. Looks like you'll be able to get a new 750D in the UK with the 18-55 for ~130 less at an official dealer. 
Sure, things have moved on and the 800D is considerably more than the 750D was at launch. Exactly how much is DPAF worth though?
Spec-wise, other than DPAF and 9 vs 19 AF points they're surprisingly similar too.

Easy to see that the 200D is aimed at liveview users though, and will likely be very good in that role.


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## tr573 (Jun 27, 2017)

Khalai said:


> SL2 typical users are going to use Vari-Angle + Touch DPAF anyway IMHO, Canon could simply omit OVF entirely and just make M7 with EF-S mount



I half expected this camera to be EVF/no mirror honestly. It seems like the body Canon would use to determine via sales whether people would prefer to have:

Native EF mount even if it made the body deeper
Native EF-M mount with adapter


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## Sporgon (Jun 27, 2017)

tr573 said:


> Khalai said:
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> 
> > SL2 typical users are going to use Vari-Angle + Touch DPAF anyway IMHO, Canon could simply omit OVF entirely and just make M7 with EF-S mount
> ...



Come on Guys, the 200D is_ defined_ by its optical viewfinder - thank goodness.


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## tr573 (Jun 27, 2017)

Sporgon said:


> tr573 said:
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> > Khalai said:
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I hate EVFs , they make me nauseous. But I was genuinely expecting Canon to try the experiment of whether people would rather buy a native EF mirrorless or not.


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## Khalai (Jun 27, 2017)

tr573 said:


> Sporgon said:
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Frankly, Fuji X-T1 and X-T2 (and X-Pro2 to a degree) EVFs are downright amazing. Magnification very similar to my Canon 6D, no visual rolling shutter, flicker or anything like that and shooting B&W is really fun with WYSIWYG display in EVF


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## tr573 (Jun 27, 2017)

Khalai said:


> tr573 said:
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> > Sporgon said:
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I had an X100T, and I seriously could not move the camera side to side at all without getting queasy. I'm really really prone to motion sickness though, so that's just me. I drive everywhere because I can't stand being a passenger.


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## Sharlin (Jun 27, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> bsbeamer said:
> 
> 
> > Still, do believe this is the first "DSLR" with this "feature" included. Believe only the Canon mirrorless options included this.
> ...



The 77D and the 800D also have it. Presumably it's a DiGIC 7 feature.


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## Khalai (Jun 27, 2017)

tr573 said:


> Khalai said:
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> > tr573 said:
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X100T was previous generation and it's on the smaller side. with only 56 FPS. X-T2 can get up to 100 FPS with battery grip and Boost mode. It's also larger. So I believe it's currently quite possible to deliver very good EVF with OLED, high resolution, good magnification and fast refresh rate.


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## tr573 (Jun 27, 2017)

Khalai said:


> X100T was previous generation and it's on the smaller side. with only 56 FPS. X-T2 can get up to 100 FPS with battery grip and Boost mode. It's also larger. So I believe it's currently quite possible to deliver very good EVF with OLED, high resolution, good magnification and fast refresh rate.



Of course it's possible to deliver a very good EVF. My wife thought the X100T was spectacular regardless of my issues. 

I'm simply saying that I'm a person who can't even ride in a car without getting nauseated, so I doubt that even those improvements would help me pan with an EVF without getting sick. My extra sensitive nature in this department is not a slag on EVFs or people who enjoy them, it's just a thing I have to live with.


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## gn100 (Jun 28, 2017)

Surprising re AF points ..... I thought a target market for this product was full frame DSLR owners who wanted a small body, so coupled with a pancake would be a great "compact" camera, yet also double as a backup body ..... these people wont be satisfied with 9AF points. Otherwise most other stuff looks reasonable (assuming latest generation of sensors)


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## Maximilian (Jun 28, 2017)

gn100 said:


> Surprising re AF points ..... I thought a target market for this product was full frame DSLR owners who wanted a small body, so coupled with a pancake would be a great "compact" camera, yet also double as a backup body ..... these people wont be satisfied with 9AF points. Otherwise most other stuff looks reasonable (assuming latest generation of sensors)


I am that target market that you describe and as you pointed out I am far from being satisfied.
I already own a 100D/SL1 and I was very much anticipating this release because my two points of criticism on this otherwise great (small) 100D body are:
[list type=decimal]
[*]crappy old AF (of course I do not expect a 5D4 or 7D2 AF in this body)
[*]with a wide gap to #1 the other is the sensor performance.
It's okay but could be much better with latest sensors
[/list]
So I am out of the race now.

But honestly I don't believe that Canon was defining that "second body" target market as the one they wanted to address with this body. 
I believe it is the similar one as before:
People who want a tiny little DSLR and cannot decide for EVF systems. (don't ask me if that's the right description)
Now with DPAF they added some video people as well. 
But even if Canon just addresses these market segments I am still very disappointed to see such very, very old, crappy (compared to what they could deliver) AF system in a 2017 body. It's a real shame IMO, no matter how much more expensive the camera would have become with a different AF system.


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## mb66energy (Jun 28, 2017)

About the shocking 9 AF point thing: The german translation marks this spec list as "rumor" and the source is "someone from another country".

If the camera finally has 9 AF points, all cross type and f/8 compatible it would be absolutely sufficient for me. If it is the rumored version: shurely ok.

Don't focus only on what cameras do NOT have, praise it for what it has.

DPAF is much more flexible/fast/precise in terms of image composition and AF than any other type of AF. 
Small size is a strong benefit, light weight too.
It has long battery live (up to 800-900 shots).
EDIT: It's available in white - good for its under the bright sun, stays much cooler like white lenses (no worries about overheating the camera.)
There is a strong potential to achieve very good IQ with that camera. Hopefully they keep the surroundings of sensor and DIGIC chip on a high level to keep the noise low and DR high.


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## Maximilian (Jun 28, 2017)

mb66energy said:


> About the shocking 9 AF point thing: The german translation marks this spec list as "rumor" and the source is "someone from another country".


That's what I meant, that I am still hoping. But the hints point into other directions.



> If the camera finally has 9 AF points, all cross type and f/8 compatible it would be absolutely sufficient for me. If it is the rumored version: shurely ok.


Surely okay for someone looking for a new small DSLR. 
Surely okay for me as I won't spend my money on this if so.
Not ok for someone like me who already has the 100D, likes it but wants its weak points improved and sees that the weakest point (IMO) will stay as it was. I don't believe in a all cross type AF and I never believe in f/8 in this price segment.



> Don't focus only on what cameras do NOT have, praise it for what it has.
> ...


I focus on what I want/need. 
And all other improvements are "nice to have" for me. An improved AF system - whatever kind - is a total must to me.


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## BillB (Jun 28, 2017)

mb66energy said:


> About the shocking 9 AF point thing: The german translation marks this spec list as "rumor" and the source is "someone from another country".
> 
> If the camera finally has 9 AF points, all cross type and f/8 compatible it would be absolutely sufficient for me. If it is the rumored version: shurely ok.
> 
> ...



Good point about Liveview touchscreen focussing. However, if the rumor is right about only the center point being cross, it is hard for me to see that as anything but cost control. It sure tends to make the SL2 seem like a green box wonder, at least as far as the OVF goes. Maybe full frame DSLR owners aren't as attractive a market as we might think. Or maybe they think DSLR owners will move toward M models, or move up the Rebel food chain a little.


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## dak723 (Jun 28, 2017)

Things that folks on this forum continue to fail to grasp:

This camera and the entire rebel line is not meant for you. You are not the target market. The least expensive cameras are meant for new DSLR owners. Yes, some folks get a second body, but folks who have FF DSLRs are certainly not the target market for the cheapest cameras. 

That every new camera that is released is not meant for you. So if you have just recently bought a 5DIV or will get a 6D or ANY camera in the last 3 years, you are not the target market for this camera.

That every camera that is released will not have high end specs. No, an inexpensive camera will not have high end specs. The cheaper the camera the less high end specs.

Many folks do not care that much about specs - they care about ease of use and IQ. Lots of photographers use center point. That does not make them "green box" photographers. That does not make them folks who never go beyond the kit lens. All it means is that they do not need to use any other AF point because they don't use fast lenses or do macro photography and center point works perfectly fine for what they shoot.


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## wjm (Jun 28, 2017)

dak723 said:


> Things that folks on this forum continue to fail to grasp:
> 
> This camera and the entire rebel line is not meant for you. You are not the target market. The least expensive cameras are meant for new DSLR owners. Yes, some folks get a second body, but folks who have FF DSLRs are certainly not the target market for the cheapest cameras.



Well, the Rebel SL1/100D was not for new DSLR users per se. It was more expensive (introduction price) then the Rebels back then and had *more or less* the same specs. Build was different of course. The canon 1x00D/Rebel T6 is for new DSLR owners. I, like many others, bought the SL1/100D as 'second' camera (beside 5D mark II) after having owned e.g. 10D, 30D and 5D classic.

One could expect that the Rebel SL2/200D (as the successor of the SL1/100D) will follow suit. So on par specs with the current Rebels and a (little) more expensive (because of small build).

Also: the SL1/100D was introduced in 2013 so after 4 year one could expect some improvements ...


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 28, 2017)

wjm said:


> dak723 said:
> 
> 
> > Things that folks on this forum continue to fail to grasp:
> ...



The bigger thing that folks on this forum continue to fail to grasp: 

We are not representative of the overall ILC market. No way, no how. 

Regarding the SL1, from a feature standpoint it was comparable to the T5i, which was released around the same time; the SL1 was $100 cheaper than the T5i. The 'downmarket' T5 was even less expensive, with a reduced feature set. All three of them are 'entry-level', targeting those new to dSLRs and secondarily those upgrading from predecessors (usually much older, e.g. when their XTi breaks, they buy the current model). 

Sorry, but to suggest that those already owning a higher-end dSLR and wanting to buy a _second_ dSLR represent a significant target market is rather silly. Sure, many folks on here own more than one ILC. But like I said, we're not representative. In the broader ILC market, the number of people owning multiple bodies is vanishingly small.


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## wjm (Jun 28, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> wjm said:
> 
> 
> > dak723 said:
> ...



Completely true and I fully realize that. Of course a multi million company like Canon will not just bring out random products (although also multi million companies make mistakes). They have a big strategy department, market surveys, test penals, etc, etc, etc. I also never intended to suggest that people who wanted to buy a second camera is a significant market. I only wanted to say that the SL1/SL2 is not only for new users but also more advanced users who want a DSLR and 'go light' (I hardly use my 5DII anymore by the way).

Also I wanted to point out that one _might_ expect an upgrade in AF point 'judging the past'. Nothing more, nothing less.


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## wjm (Jun 28, 2017)

Maximilian said:


> mb66energy said:
> 
> 
> > About the shocking 9 AF point thing: The german translation marks this spec list as "rumor" and the source is "someone from another country".
> ...



If you have a good look at the mirror of the camera in the picture of the SL2 (assuming it is the real picture), I think you can see 9 points quite clearly ...


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 28, 2017)

wjm said:


> I only wanted to say that the SL1/SL2 is not only for new users but also more advanced users who want a DSLR and 'go light' (I hardly use my 5DII anymore by the way).



Agreed – that's why I have an EOS M2, and will be ordering an M6 in the very near future (although I still use my 1D X more frequently).




wjm said:


> Also I wanted to point out that one _might_ expect an upgrade in AF point 'judging the past'. Nothing more, nothing less.



I think it's fair to say they _should_ have updated the PDAF, especially given that the T6i got the 7D's 19-pt AF sensor, and the T7i got the 80D's 45-pt AF sensor. I can see them reusing an old Digic (like they often do with the xxxxD series), becuase for a camera with basic specs doesn't benefit as much from a faster Digic. But it's really time to retire the old 9-pt AF system...it wasn't new when I used it on my T1i/500D back in 2009.


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## m8547 (Jun 28, 2017)

gn100 said:


> Surprising re AF points ..... I thought a target market for this product was full frame DSLR owners who wanted a small body, so coupled with a pancake would be a great "compact" camera, yet also double as a backup body ..... these people wont be satisfied with 9AF points. Otherwise most other stuff looks reasonable (assuming latest generation of sensors)



That's exactly what I use my SL1 for. With the 24mm pancake I think it weighs about 18oz total, so it's a great hiking camera.

I want the features of a high-end camera, but not the size and weight. AF points don't weigh anything, so there's no reason not to add them. I can give up ergonomics since more buttons obviously don't fit in a smaller package. But Canon doesn't sell anything like that. The lighter cameras have fewer features, and the cameras with all the features are big and heavy. Even though many features don't add any weight or bulk. 

I don't really know who this camera is targeted at. I bought a SL1 because I got it cheap enough to replace my T3i, and the specs where basically identical to the T3i minus a couple things like the tilting screen. If the specs were better it would be worth spending more on one. 

If this is 406g body only, that's heavier than the SL1 which is 370g body only. The extra weight might come from features that are not helpful to still photography, like the tilting screen, bluetooth, and NFC. 

If the battery life really is 840 that's amazing. The SL1 was up to 480, which was a bit low for long trips. I'd sometimes turn off the LCD completely and disable image review to squeeze the most out of the battery. If the extra weight is from a larger battery then that's understandable.


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## Maximilian (Jun 28, 2017)

dak723 said:


> Things that folks on this forum continue to fail to grasp:
> 
> This camera and the entire rebel line is not meant for you. You are not the target market. The least expensive cameras are meant for new DSLR owners. Yes, some folks get a second body, but folks who have FF DSLRs are certainly not the target market for the cheapest cameras.
> ...


Man, of course this camera isn't for high end geeks. 
But even a "normal" consumer hast a right to get up to date tech.
If you buy a PC/MAC today, would you accept if its graphic processor could only deliver VGA??? Of course not! 
IMO the 9 point AF system is insomuch outdated that it is a shame for Canon to reuse it once again. 
If Canon wants to put this camera far below the T7i this is their right and decission. 
But the 19 point AF or something else would have been at least something.

And it seems that others see it the same way:


neuroanatomist said:


> ...it's really time to retire the old 9-pt AF system...it wasn't new when I used it on my T1i/500D back in 2009.



My decission was to buy this camera if its AF was decently improved and my decission will be not to buy it if it still has that 9 point af (even all cross type of the T5i).


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## scyrene (Jun 28, 2017)

Maximilian said:


> It's a real shame IMO, no matter how much more expensive the camera would have become with a different AF system.



This, for me, sums up much of the bellyaching about Canon products in general on these forums. The most important issue for the vast majority of customers is price. While enthusiasts and some professionals often state they're willing to pay more for the features they want, most people just don't see things that way.


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## Maximilian (Jun 28, 2017)

scyrene said:


> Maximilian said:
> 
> 
> > It's a real shame IMO, no matter how much more expensive the camera would have become with a different AF system.
> ...


Once again:
Even a "normal" consumer hast a right to get up to date tech.
If you buy a PC/MAC today, would you accept if its graphic processor could only deliver VGA??? Of course not! 

You are right, price matters and I was not thinking about hundreds of $s when I wrote the above.
You see what can be delivered in consumer cameras for consumer prices.

And in the same post you quoted i said


Maximilian said:


> (of course I do not expect a 5D4 or 7D2 AF in this body)



And if you've read other posts from me on this and also on other products you might have recognized that I am normally not in front line when it comes to complaining about Canon and their kind of product strategy. 

But the 9 point AF system in a product released in 2017 is just ridiculous.


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## scyrene (Jun 28, 2017)

Maximilian said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > Maximilian said:
> ...



I'm not sure what 'rights' means in this context. Nobody is forced to buy these things. If they've miscalculated, and the old fashioned AF puts a lot of people off, they'll see lower sales.


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## Sporgon (Jun 28, 2017)

Has anyone considered that Canon MR may have suggested that the majority of those that might buy this camera _don't want_ a multitude of AF points to choose from ?


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 28, 2017)

Sporgon said:


> Has anyone considered that Canon MR may have suggested that the majority of those that might buy this camera _don't want_ a multitude of AF points to choose from ?



Egad, man...of course not. Everyone wants more AF points. Just like everyone needs to shoot 4K and needs two card slots. Speaking of which, it's just unconscionable for Canon to release a camera in 2017 that lacks dual card slots. Everyone knows it.


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## TeT (Jun 29, 2017)

Sporgon said:


> pwp said:
> 
> 
> > rs said:
> ...



I think maybe that the inclusion of 9 pt AF does not make the SL2 attractive enough for an upgrade if one is using the current SL1 mostly for stills. The connectivity and tilt screen are a nice addition...


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## Sporgon (Jun 29, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > Has anyone considered that Canon MR may have suggested that the majority of those that might buy this camera _don't want_ a multitude of AF points to choose from ?
> ...



Steady ! Two card slots is a must. What happens if someone steals one of your cards ?


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## TeT (Jun 29, 2017)

Maximilian said:


> So I am out of the race now.
> 
> But honestly I don't believe that Canon was defining that "second body" target market as the one they wanted to address with this body.
> I believe it is the similar one as before:
> People who want a tiny little DSLR and cannot decide for EVF systems. (don't ask me if that's the right description)



Agreed, but 2nd body crowd sure would gobble it up if you gave them enough of an excuse. Probably at a higher price tag to boot...


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## Jopa (Jun 29, 2017)

Sporgon said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Sporgon said:
> ...



Why would they steal a card but leave the camera?


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## Bennymiata (Jun 30, 2017)

The fact is that the majority of people who will buy the SL2 won't even be able change the focus point anway, so 9 points is 8 too many.


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## Maximilian (Jun 30, 2017)

Bennymiata said:


> The fact is that the majority of people who will buy the SL2 won't even be able change the focus point anway, so 9 points is 8 too many.


With this opinion one could say a pinhole camera is enough. :

Edit:
It's the other way 'round:
the more and better the AF system can work the better the result in green frame mode for those DAUs.


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## Sporgon (Jun 30, 2017)

Jopa said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



I hadn't thought of that  If they stole the camera I'd lose two cards.

Maybe one card slot is best, then I'd only lose one.


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## HaroldC3 (Jun 30, 2017)

I have to wonder if they didn't upgrade the AF system because Canon thought most people would use the screen and thus the inclusion of DPAF was more important (from a marketing perspective as well) than increasing the number of AF points.


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## atlcroc (Jul 5, 2017)

Little late to this discussion, but will throw in my 2 cents. I think they went with the 9 pt AF to protect Rebel T7I sales and also get an even cheaper option for beginners. Was also very disappointed because last year decided to keep only 5 D Mark IV for 99% of my shooting and get a really light option when I wanted to lug around less weight. Had looked at mirrorless options including Sony, Panasonic, Olympus, Fuji and Canon and found something I did not like about everyone of them so bought an SL1 body. Certainly I do not expect the same results as my Mark IV, but it was great to shed some weight when I wanted to grab a light option. Fully planned to get the SL 2 and sell the SL1. Since neither will fit in my pocket and still wanted the additional features, decided to go ahead and get the Rebel T 7i as a second body. Also wanted a 35 mm pancake lens to use as walk around rather than a zoom and since it does not exist yet, just went for the new 35 mm macro. Spent the last 2 days playing with that on the SL 1 and am pleased to have an option that is 2 pounds lighter than my regular set up. Probably will rarely use it, but like have the option. I have absolutely no need for 45 or 61 AF points, but do need more than 1 if I plan to use in servo modes. Since I will experiment with the smaller sensor for some wildlife vs cropping on full frame, wanted the extra AF points. Rebel is on back order so cannot comment yet on how I like it vs SL1.


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## KevinP (Jul 9, 2017)

atlcroc said:


> Little late to this discussion, but will throw in my 2 cents. I think they went with the 9 pt AF to protect Rebel T7I sales and also get an even cheaper option for beginners.



Ditto. That's how I see the SL2. With most of the T7i features, they needed one major differentiator besides size. Being truly entry level as a DSLR, I figure they kept the smallest and least expensive viewfinder AF in production and let the middle level go. It's also the default in the camera already, not requiring two or three engineers assigned to redesign the system.

That doesn't bother me. Auto Focus Micro Adjustment does. I want an SL2 or T7i size camera, but I want a better hit rate on focus, and I'd like the better sensor (compared to the SL1 my wife and I share). AFMA should be a nearly free software feature to implement, but it's excluded from cameras the size I like. My hands aren't huge, so the smaller cameras give me a better grip. To get AFMA requires a 70D/80D, which are as big and heavy as a 6D, but you don't get the big sensor. 

I've thought about pairing an SL2 or T7i to Sigma lenses to do lens AFMA, outside the camera. It looks like there's a flip side losing the other in-camera lens corrections. It makes me wonder if I'd like the M5 digital viewfinder better. AFMA is moot with the Dual Pixel AF, and all the canon lenses can use their other corrections.


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## atlcroc (Jul 9, 2017)

We're on the same page again. When I did use the SL1, seemed to have more shots not as sharp as I like. Was not sure if it were me or the lenses I was using. On my good shots, it was really crisp but seemed to have more misses. I never used AFMA on my other bodies and the only time I had a problem, I exchanged the lens and the new one was perfect so have never tried any adjustments. My new 7 Ti body came Friday and have taken a couple of hundred test shots using different lenses and have had maybe one shot where the focus was not good and I think that was my doing. So seems to be much better than the SL1 plus you can use touch focus in live view to make sure you get what you want in focus. Got mine from BH who has a 30 day return policy so you might want to give the 7 Ti a try out if you want to stay with the lighter options.


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## KevinP (Jul 9, 2017)

atlcroc said:


> When I did use the SL1, seemed to have more shots not as sharp as I like. Was not sure if it were me or the lenses I was using. On my good shots, it was really crisp but seemed to have more misses.



That's exactly where I am. I've increased shutter speeds to deal with motion blur, but focus still misses, or I can't focus and recompose without missing shots. I'm making an effort to be better, and I still have a lot of misses.


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## benkam (Jul 10, 2017)

I'm a 100D/SL1 user who had sworn off upgrading to an SL2...

...but then Canon gives this body series all these big and small improvements that add up to a very solid upgrade:

* Fully articulating screen -- Totally unexpected in this smallest DSLR body. Useful for those angles difficult or impossible with the old fixed screen and for that holiday two-fie. (I'd also imagine this small-body tilty-flippy coupled with DPAF would make it popular with many in the vlogging crowd.)

* DPAF -- Was a possibility but not sure they'd trickle it down to this level. Definitely a welcome addition. I'd have hoped for a 19-point all-cross-type DPAF from the now around 4-year-old 70D (after all, the 77D/800D got 45pt DPAF) but guess Canon wanted to keep it very entry-level with the AF points. It's still DPAF, which has in recent years distinguished Canon's line-up from the other brands.

* Other useful things like a bigger handgrip (the old SL1 never slipped from my fingers but often hoped there was a bit more to cling on to), 
60p HD (never expected 4K at this level) and electronic IS might help when used with the small non-IS primes,
wi-fi (with its own quick access button), 
and of course the higher-res sensor and slightly faster shooting speed.

The next-up 800D and 77D are only slightly, but still noticeably, bigger and with their added features would probably be better options for many, but for those looking to stick to a DSLR in this form factor, Canon's done right mostly with the 200D/SL2.


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## privatebydesign (Jul 10, 2017)

benkam said:


> I'm a 100D/SL1 user who had sworn off upgrading to an SL2...
> 
> ...but then Canon gives this body series all these big and small improvements that add up to a very solid upgrade:
> 
> ...



That is what Canon do pretty much every single time with every model iteration.


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## benkam (Jul 10, 2017)

privatebydesign said:


> benkam said:
> 
> 
> > I'm a 100D/SL1 user who had sworn off upgrading to an SL2...
> ...



Yes, always a solid upgrade in the DSLR world.

I'm personally also looking into mirrorless options though for a future SL1 replacement, as the features I covet now also include an EVF and a completely silent mode. Maybe Canon comes up with something new or maybe that's a price-reduced M5 (just wish the screen flipped to the side when facing forward). Or even maybe another brand.


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## Faranell (Jul 11, 2017)

I'm also planning to upgrade from SL1 to SL2, mainly because of video features. I barely use it for photo, so I don't really mind the 9 AF point system.

However I see that it has a DIGIC 7 image processor, compared to the DIGIC 5 in the previous model. I know it means a solid 1 stop improvement in case of ISO performace while shooting JPEG. But does it also effect video shooting? I would love it even more if videos shot at ISO 1600 would look like ISO 800 on SL1, but I don't know if that would work.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Jul 11, 2017)

Faranell said:


> I'm also planning to upgrade from SL1 to SL2, mainly because of video features. I barely use it for photo, so I don't really mind the 9 AF point system.
> 
> However I see that it has a DIGIC 7 image processor, compared to the DIGIC 5 in the previous model. I know it means a solid 1 stop improvement in case of ISO performace while shooting JPEG. But does it also effect video shooting? I would love it even more if videos shot at ISO 1600 would look like ISO 800 on SL1, but I don't know if that would work.


The DIGIC processor is also responsible for video noise reduction. Then you should have a video improvement with high ISO.
How much better?
Maybe it will come to an entire ISO stop.


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