# Neuro has totally been holding out on us



## ahsanford (Mar 28, 2018)

Neuro,

Okay, SO many questions:

1) _*How long have you been writing at TDP?!*_ How have we not heard this before?

2) Why am I just seeing this sweet EF-M lens reviews page at TDP now? Why isn't there an EF-M lens reviews pulldown in the 'Reviews' pulldown of the site?

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-M-Lens-Reviews.aspx

3) Why are you using your real name when _you know fully well that AvTvM will find you IRL?_ He was just pictured heading your way below. 

- A


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## sanj (Mar 28, 2018)

Explain pls


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## ethanz (Mar 28, 2018)

I don't think John has to fear about using his real name. He can always slap would-be threats with his 1dx mirror. 

I've stumbled upon his writings on TDP before.


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## ahsanford (Mar 28, 2018)

sanj said:


> Explain pls



See author for some of these reviews -- the accompanying icon is familiar:

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-M-28mm-f-3.5-Macro-IS-STM-Lens.aspx

- A


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## AlanF (Mar 28, 2018)

What's new? John wrote the AFMA article for TDP years ago, and CR regulars have been well aware of it. In fact, it was so long ago he hadn't migrated to FoCal.

https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Photography-Tips/af-microadjustment-tips.aspx


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## ahsanford (Mar 28, 2018)

AlanF said:


> What's new? John wrote the AFMA article for TDP years ago, and CR regulars have been well aware of it. In fact, it was so long ago he hadn't migrated to FoCal.
> 
> https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Photography-Tips/af-microadjustment-tips.aspx



You learn something every day.

Next thing you'll tell me is that wise Uncle Rog is a successful camera/lens rental business owner. 

- A


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## AlanF (Mar 28, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> AlanF said:
> 
> 
> > What's new? John wrote the AFMA article for TDP years ago, and CR regulars have been well aware of it. In fact, it was so long ago he hadn't migrated to FoCal.
> ...



Roger Cicala was also a very respected physician until about 10 years ago when he threw it in to pursue his hobby. There are more interesting stories than you might think in this game.


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## ahsanford (Mar 28, 2018)

AlanF said:


> Roger Cicala was also a very respected physician until about 10 years ago when he threw it in to pursue his hobby. There are more interesting stories than you might think in this game.



http://time.com/money/2794230/physician-changes-focus-renting-camera-gear/

(if curious)

But back on topic: Neuro. Writing reviews on the sly. Shenanigans!

- A


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## pwp (Mar 28, 2018)

Huh? Nothing new here. What's the big surprise? Yawn...

-pw


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## slclick (Mar 28, 2018)

Old news


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## ethanz (Mar 28, 2018)

From the pictures I have seen, John has very sinister looks, almost wizardry...


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## ethanz (Mar 28, 2018)

I was not meaning the above image.


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## zim (Mar 28, 2018)

slclick said:


> I think he'll have far more sinister look than our beatbox boy there



 Daddy!


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 29, 2018)

As I recall, Neuro has noted that he writes and posts at TDP for many years, but does not push it. You must be so young that you missed it


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## Ozarker (Mar 29, 2018)

Old news to some of you, not to all of us.


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## ahsanford (Mar 29, 2018)

All of this because I didn't know TDP had an EF-M section. 

Curse you, pulldown menu!

- A


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 29, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> 1) _*How long have you been writing at TDP?!*_ How have we not heard this before?



As you've now seen, for quite some time (2011, IIRC). In addition to the AFMA piece that Alan linked, I did a writeup on how PDAF works (that was long before DPAF).




ahsanford said:


> 2) Why am I just seeing this sweet EF-M lens reviews page at TDP now? Why isn't there an EF-M lens reviews pulldown in the 'Reviews' pulldown of the site?
> 
> https://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EF-M-Lens-Reviews.aspx



It was there before if you'd clicked on the Reviews link, but I'm sure most people just use the pulldown. Bryan sort of buried the section because there were no reviews in it, just the lens pages with the notation that no reviews were planned and the pages are required by the site template as links to the test results (same as found on select other lenses, like the EF-S 55-200mm IS II). He indicated that once the EF-M reviews were more populated, he'll add the section to the pulldown.

Probably TMI, but back in 2009 when I decided to get back into 'real' photography (shot film in the pre-autofocus days, then in the I-can't-afford-AF days, but then came a long hiatus with just P&S film then digital), I was choosing between Canon and Nikon and I found Bryan's site invaluable then and with gear choices over the next several years. So, after a few of years of enjoying my EOS M gear, having nearly all the lenses, and seeing no reviews of them on TDP (although there was a review of the EF mount adapter all along), I decided to do something about that gap, and give a little back. 

Also, you haven't missed them for long... My first review (the M11-22) went live on TDP March 12th, followed by the M28 Macro earlier this week. The M55-200 is next up (being formatted now), and I'm currently working on the M18-150 review.

I will say that writing these reviews, taking the example shots, etc., has given me a new appreciation for the amount of work Bryan puts into his reviews!


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## AlanF (Mar 29, 2018)

Well done on the hard work! Did you take the images of the chart or did Bryan do those under his standard conditions? They have been listed for a while so I had assumed he had done those.


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 29, 2018)

Thanks, Alan! Bryan did all the standardized tests (ISO 12233, Imatest vignetting, etc.), but the ones in the reviews (e.g. real-world sharpness, CA, coma, etc.) are ones I shot.


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## jolyonralph (Mar 29, 2018)

I did a review of the same lens too.

Of course mine isn't as good, but anyway...

http://www.everyothershot.com/canon-ef-m-28mm-f3-5-macro-stm-quick-review/


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## AlanF (Mar 29, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> Thanks, Alan! Bryan did all the standardized tests (ISO 12233, Imatest vignetting, etc.), but the ones in the reviews (e.g. real-world sharpness, CA, coma, etc.) are ones I shot.



I recognised your foreign travel in Europe! It is an excellent review. I like TDP as being the most rigorous and honest as well as most informative site for overall descriptions. The only flaw, common to all bar lensrentals, is that readers take the IQ of a single copy as being gospel truth.


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## Random Orbits (Mar 29, 2018)

AlanF said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Thanks, Alan! Bryan did all the standardized tests (ISO 12233, Imatest vignetting, etc.), but the ones in the reviews (e.g. real-world sharpness, CA, coma, etc.) are ones I shot.
> ...



+1. TDP is really what lit the flames of GAS for me. With so many charts in the database, it's a great resource for comparisons. I usually wait for TDP reviews before buying lenses.

It was also nice seeing some pictures from Neuro's reviews of my alma mater. Haven't been back in years, although we are considering taking the kids up to Boston this summer for the Freedom Trail.


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## ahsanford (Mar 29, 2018)

Random Orbits said:


> +1. TDP is really what lit the flames of GAS for me. With so many charts in the database, it's a great resource for comparisons. I usually wait for TDP reviews before buying lenses.
> 
> It was also nice seeing some pictures from Neuro's reviews of my alma mater. Haven't been back in years, although we are considering taking the kids up to Boston this summer for the Freedom Trail.



+1 

I'm used to seeing PA landscapes at TDP, so it was nice to see _my_ commonwealth for a change. 

And +100 on TDP. I'm seemingly there daily -- such a stellar resource.

- A


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 29, 2018)

Random Orbits said:


> It was also nice seeing some pictures from Neuro's reviews of my alma mater. Haven't been back in years, although we are considering taking the kids up to Boston this summer for the Freedom Trail.



Spoiler alert: you may see a few more in upcoming reviews, MIT is a short walk from where I work. I'm definitely going to work The Alchemist into one. 

Ps. Besides the obvious ones in the M11-22 review (Stata and Simmons), did you spot all three campus shots in the M28 Macro review? Well, one is rather unfair – the 'side of a building' mentioned in background blur example is the Guggenheim Lab Building. But there are two others.


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## AlanF (Mar 29, 2018)

As one exceptionally distinguished chemist once said to me on moving from MIT to Harvard, it was like going from an insurance company to a Byzantine Court.


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## ethanz (Mar 29, 2018)

AlanF said:


> insurance company to a Byzantine Court.



I'm not sure which is better...

You ever see Click and Clack or go to their auto shop?


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## ahsanford (Mar 29, 2018)

AlanF said:


> As one exceptionally distinguished chemist once said to me on moving from MIT to Harvard, it was like going from an insurance company to a Byzantine Court.



When Byzantium can defend its home ice from western invaders, do let me know. 

- A


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## Random Orbits (Mar 29, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> Random Orbits said:
> 
> 
> > It was also nice seeing some pictures from Neuro's reviews of my alma mater. Haven't been back in years, although we are considering taking the kids up to Boston this summer for the Freedom Trail.
> ...



Oh, that's sad... Guggenheim Lab Building is building 33?! Never used the name just the building number, and to think I spent my undergrad and grad (for masters) there for Course 16. I might have remembered the name of the building years ago...

The other two shots. The breezeway to the MIT chapel, where my wife and I were married. The other is from the open space near the Stata center/food truck area (or used to be). Building in the back is Whitaker?


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## Random Orbits (Mar 29, 2018)

ethanz said:


> AlanF said:
> 
> 
> > insurance company to a Byzantine Court.
> ...



I don't listen to radio but Click and Clack gave our commencement address. the thing they said that stuck after all these years: there are four types of people. Two axis: smart to dumb and lazy to energetic. Smart and energetic people rub others the wrong way. Lazy and dumb is harmless. Lazy and energetic is annoying and harmful. You want to be smart and lazy. ;D


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## ahsanford (Mar 29, 2018)

ethanz said:


> I'm not sure which is better...
> 
> You ever see Click and Clack or go to their auto shop?



I'm guessing you've heard, but in case you haven't:
https://www.npr.org/2014/11/03/357428287/tom-magliozzi-popular-co-host-of-nprs-car-talk-dies-at-77

No idea if the shop still exists, though.

- A


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## AlanF (Mar 29, 2018)

What does it say about MIT having so many alumni posting on CR?


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## ahsanford (Mar 29, 2018)

AlanF said:


> What does it say about MIT having so many alumni posting on CR?



That even nerds need help with technical things sometimes, amirite?

I think they just have good taste in online communities. This is one of the most respectful, knowledgable and friendly forums I've ever seen. (Super informative as well for the enthusiast like me.)

- A


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 29, 2018)

Random Orbits said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Random Orbits said:
> ...



Correct across the board.


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## ethanz (Mar 29, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> ethanz said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not sure which is better...
> ...



Yes I heard, not sure about the shop though. I think Ray would still be chumming around somewhere.


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## stevelee (Mar 29, 2018)

Random Orbits said:


> You want to be smart and lazy.



I think that is the sort of person who accomplishes a lot. Energetic people may be content to continue to do things the hard way. Lazy people look for faster/better/easier ways to do things. If they are smart, they are likely to find them, often to all of our benefit.


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## ahsanford (Mar 29, 2018)

stevelee said:


> I think that is the sort of person who accomplishes a lot. Energetic people may be content to continue to do things the hard way. Lazy people look for faster/better/easier ways to do things. If they are smart, they are likely to find them, often to all of our benefit.



To do anything of any scale, however, you need diversity -- and in this case, diversity of _perspective_. Throw out the dumb + lazy folks, but with the other three you can solve problems that no single group could accomplish:

smart + energetic --> management, change agents, networkers, project leaders, etc.
smart + lazy --> innovation, blue water perspective, 'what if' imagineering, problem solvers, etc.
dumb + energetic --> shoulder-to-wheel industry, devotion to procedure/simplicity, focus on tasks, bureaucrats that keep the lights on and the bills paid, etc.
dumb + lazy --> we can argue if a company needs those folks, but those toilets won't clean themselves...

i.e. if everyone is Elon Musk, no one is making the coffee, documenting the work or taking a breath to think of a different solution.
i.e. if everyone is from a stoner clique of MENSA, the IP will be mindblowing but nothing will ever get made.
i.e. if everyone is a foot soldier, you'll never have a plan to defeat the enemy.
i.e. if everyone is idiotic and lacks the p--- and vinegar to do something, best of luck to you.

These are horribly coarse generalizations, but you get the idea. We spend too much time trying to burden each other with our specific sensibilities or foster subordinates in our own image, when I think its far more effective to understand the individual and put them in a position to play to their strengths. 

- A


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## AlanF (Mar 29, 2018)

Interesting. I have been arguing for years that the over-pressurised current school system with too frequent examinations discriminates against lazy smart pupils who are likely to be creative.


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## ahsanford (Mar 29, 2018)

AlanF said:


> Interesting. I have been arguing for years that the over-pressurised current school system with too frequent examinations discriminates against lazy smart pupils who are likely to be creative.



As an American, I tend to see these highly standardized, hive mind, completely different ways to educate children in other countries with two different perspectives:

1) Wow, that's... wow. Weird as hell. But have you seen their test scores?!

2) In our own broken-as-hell education system in which two kids in the same town get completely different educations, the US has a comical range to its output -- there is a huge spread in its ability to foster to adulthood people with wildly different perspectives and viewpoints. Upside: we are legion from an innovation perspective. Downside: we can't agree on anything and we fight amongst ourselves all the time.

But we're a little OT here. 

Bad Neuro. Pulldowns. Grumble grumble. 

- A


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## JonB8305 (Mar 29, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> stevelee said:
> 
> 
> > I think that is the sort of person who accomplishes a lot. Energetic people may be content to continue to do things the hard way. Lazy people look for faster/better/easier ways to do things. If they are smart, they are likely to find them, often to all of our benefit.
> ...



I absolutely love this perspective.


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## ahsanford (Mar 29, 2018)

JonB8305 said:


> I absolutely love this perspective.



For funsies, if you want to turn this oversimplified 'human tic tac toe' into a rubik's cube, then you ponder the nugget that _all of us are actually all four types of people depending on the role/task/skill in question_:

e.g. for me, personally, in my life as an engineer (and I'll be the first to say that I am a very weird sort of engineer):

project management = smart and energetic
customer facing work = smart and energetic
strategic planning = smart and lazy
ideation = smart and lazy
finance = dumb and lazy
documentation = dumb and energetic
policy making = dumb and energetic
execution to plan = dumb and energetic

You get the idea. Part of it is shape-shifting as the role demands, part of it is what I'm into and get excited about, and part of it is simply how I'm wired. 

- A


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## scottkinfw (Mar 30, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> Random Orbits said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Congrats Neuro!

Scott


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## stevelee (Mar 30, 2018)

AlanF said:


> Interesting. I have been arguing for years that the over-pressurised current school system with too frequent examinations discriminates against lazy smart pupils who are likely to be creative.



I don’t think it serves much of anybody well, except maybe companies that produce materials for schools on how to teach to the test. 

When you look at some countries that do a better job, such as Finland, they seem to do the opposite.


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## AlanF (Mar 30, 2018)

I once messed with FoCal to measure the Quality of Fit (QoF, a rough measure of edge sharpness) of some EF-M lenses, and it might be worth mentioning them here because they bear out Neuro's enthusiasm for these lenses. 

I shot with the M5 a series of 7 charts pasted equidistant across the field of view from extreme left to extreme right and looked at 2 copies of the 11-22mm and one 15-45mm, wide open, and the 22mm at f/2.8 and f/4. 

Top, 1 copy of the 11-22mm at 22mm was much more consistent across the frame, showing that copy variation can make a significant difference. 

Middle, both copies were very consistent across the whole frame at 11mm. 

Bottom, the 11-22mm, 15-45 and 22mm were all very even across the frame at ~22mm, with the 22mm at f/4 just the best. 

As those familiar with FoCal QoF scores, these values of around 2000 are very good. The 15-45 is sometimes looked down upon because of its plastic mount, but optically it is very decent. Optical limits (previously photozone.de) has MTFs for the 15-45 and 11-22, which show that they are rather good.


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## Orangutan (Mar 31, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> AlanF said:
> 
> 
> > Interesting. I have been arguing for years that the over-pressurised current school system with too frequent examinations discriminates against lazy smart pupils who are likely to be creative.
> ...



One of the hypotheses is that U.S. schools inadvertently produce students who are skeptical of authority. The majority are simply undereducated because they don't value what the teachers say. Some, however, learn to verify what they're taught, and become better students later. Still fewer learn to verify what they, themselves, believe, and have a chance to innovate. The key is not to accept, at face value, what the loudest voice tells you, even if the loudest voice is in your own head.


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## monkey44 (Mar 31, 2018)

To go back to the original question, sorta ... Why is it odd that a person/member on this site writes for some other venue? Just curious, as it seems this is simply a volunteer forum for discussing ideas and gaining/offering advice .... and not a locked down, do no share or write elsewhere -- but I'm probably unaware of part of this post.

But, then again, I might has missed the brunt of the OP, because I don't know many of you on here except when we're here chatting. Color me <puzzled> ???


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## brad-man (Mar 31, 2018)

monkey44 said:


> To go back to the original question, sorta ... Why is it odd that a person/member on this site writes for some other venue? Just curious, as it seems this is simply a volunteer forum for discussing ideas and gaining/offering advice .... and not a locked down, do no share or write elsewhere -- but I'm probably unaware of part of this post.
> 
> But, then again, I might has missed the brunt of the OP, because I don't know many of you on here except when we're here chatting. Color me <puzzled> ???



Actually, most of the long timers around here were cognizant of Neuro's literary dalliances at TDP. Nothing odd about it. It just never showed up on any of ahsanford's charts or graphs, so he was caught a bit unawares


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## ahsanford (Mar 31, 2018)

monkey44 said:


> To go back to the original question, sorta ... Why is it odd that a person/member on this site writes for some other venue? Just curious, as it seems this is simply a volunteer forum for discussing ideas and gaining/offering advice .... and not a locked down, do no share or write elsewhere -- but I'm probably unaware of part of this post.
> 
> But, then again, I might has missed the brunt of the OP, because I don't know many of you on here except when we're here chatting. Color me <puzzled> ???



Nothing odd, disloyal or anything of that sort -- sorry for the confusion.

It's more about the fact that I visit that site all the time, but due to some decisions with that website's navigation, I never knew an EF-M lens page (and Neuro's fine work) even existed. It was just an interesting nexus of a person I know and I website I frequent. 

The rest is just me ribbing a long-time CR forum poster about it. ;D

- A


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## AlanF (Mar 31, 2018)

It’s actually a breach of netiquette to reveal personal details about a blogger or out their real name without their permission. Neuro has made no attempt to hide his identity, and so it doesn’t matter much here, but nevertheless CR members don’t gossip. In contrast, there was a member called Dilbert, often the butt of Neuro as he was the anti-Canon troll, who was outed. He then removed every single one of his thousands of posts and the outer was reprimanded by the mods, I believe.


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## ahsanford (Mar 31, 2018)

AlanF said:


> It’s actually a breach of netiquette to reveal personal details about a blogger or out their real name without their permission. Neuro has made no attempt to hide his identity, and so it doesn’t matter much here, but nevertheless CR members don’t gossip. In contrast, there was a member called Dilbert, often the butt of Neuro as he was the anti-Canon troll, who was outed. He then removed every single one of his thousands of posts and the outer was reprimanded by the mods, I believe.



Yeah, I actually double-clutched before posting instead of just sending him an IM here through CR. But the fact that he put his CR avatar next to his name toggled me over from 'ask permission' to 'beg forgiveness'.

And I also wanted to shed some light on his work. Others who use TDP's pulldown menu to navigate might never find that part of the site. (Though you'd surely see it if TDP is in your newsreader.)

- A


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## monkey44 (Mar 31, 2018)

Guess I misunderstood the post ... I sorta read it as you can't blog or post about photos or photography anywhere else, or maybe not link to any website. Which seems kinda odd, as several on here are writers (myself included, as some of you know) and am just building a new website that will contain travel destinations, photo tips and advice for "regular everyday families, etc" ... and was going to post a link here in case anyone wants to peek at it. But, now am not sure that's OK, altho I do see some references to the pros here, particularly in the copyright ...

I also know some of you rib and joke with others - which is great, the comradery - but one can't always tell if it's joking or getting in someone's face ... I guess that's why emoticons emerged in our tech worlds. ;D 8)


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 31, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> ...his CR avatar...



That's actually a selfie. With a $1.5MM camera.


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## ahsanford (Mar 31, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > ...his CR avatar...
> ...



Pretty low res. I'm assuming that didn't come from one of the new 7 Tesla MRIs. 

Why are you shooting on such budget gear, dude? ;D

- A


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 31, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



Cut me some slack – when that was taken, the state-of-the-art Canon dSLR was the EOS (Kodak) DCS 1.


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## ahsanford (Mar 31, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> Cut me some slack – when that was taken, the state-of-the-art Canon dSLR was the EOS (Kodak) DCS 1.



They just need to make MRI less noisy and claustrophobic. My wife needs them biannually and I have no idea how she does it -- simultaneously loud and uncomfortable. 

That said, I'm glad we live when we do. MRI is a wonderful diagnostic tool.

- A


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## AlanF (Mar 31, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> simultaneously loud and uncomfortable.
> - A



Like hand holding a 1DX + 600mm?


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 31, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> They just need to make MRI less noisy and claustrophobic. My wife needs them biannually and I have no idea how she does it -- simultaneously loud and uncomfortable.



There are open MRIs that can work for some imaging procedures. 

The main coil of an MRI is the source of the loud noise, and it's a solid state device so in the AvTvM Universe, MRIs are silent. Not that I'd recommend sending your wife there for imaging, or anyone there for anything, really.


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## ahsanford (Mar 31, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> There are open MRIs that can work for some imaging procedures.
> 
> The main coil of an MRI is the source of the loud noise, and it's a solid state device so in the AvTvM Universe, MRIs are silent. Not that I'd recommend sending your wife there for imaging, or anyone there for anything, really.



No such for luck for us. Must be closed for my wife's specific medical needs. :-[

(I'm more worrying for her by proxy. She's an absolute soldier in there.)

- A


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## ahsanford (Mar 31, 2018)

AlanF said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > simultaneously loud and uncomfortable.
> ...



No, more like this level of uncomfortable.

- A


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## AlanF (Mar 31, 2018)

That's another one well known to CR old-time regulars.


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## Sporgon (Mar 31, 2018)

The only thing that surprises me about Neuro is that given his somewhat argumentative nature and deadpan sense of humour, his name's not O'Reilly


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 31, 2018)

Sporgon said:


> The only thing that surprises me about Neuro is that given his somewhat argumentative nature and deadpan sense of humour, his name's not O'Reilly



Family history – the O' was dropped at Ellis Island.


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## ahsanford (Mar 31, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > The only thing that surprises me about Neuro is that given his somewhat argumentative nature and deadpan sense of humour, his name's not O'Reilly
> ...



I was just surprised that his middle initial wasn't C. 

- A


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## Orangutan (Mar 31, 2018)

ahsanford said:


> AlanF said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...


Hey, if someone gives me one of them, I'll start hitting the weight-room 2-3 times per week to be able to shoot BIF with it.


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