# Patent: Eye-controlled autofocus for mirrorless cameras



## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 6, 2019)

> Is Canon preparing to return a feature from the days of the EOS-3? The feature being eye-controlled autofocus.
> A patent uncovered by Canon News shows us that Canon is working on the technology for eye-controlled autofocus for mirrorless cameras. Eye-controlled autofocus uses your eye to select the autofocus point, so no joystick or touchscreen interaction is required to move the autofocus point around.
> Canon News explains Japan Patent Application 2019-129461:
> We have a mirrorless camera (Canon specifically states this by including item 10, which is a display element for the viewfinder).  The important pieces are 13a-13f which are light sources for illuminating the line of sight of the photographer’s pupil. The half mirror is in place so...



Continue reading...


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## PerKr (Aug 6, 2019)

Would be pretty neat but getting it to work with single point AF might be a stretch given how many focus points mirrorless cameras tend to have. Zone AF with eye control though would be nice. Either way, about time this technology was updated and returned to active duty, especially considering how we now have a gazillion focus points, rendering joysticks a less than optimal alternative.


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## DBounce (Aug 6, 2019)

The original version was so good that many claimed it was telepathic. I think Canons’ got this one in the bag. I can’t wait to see it in a pro body.


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## colorblinded (Aug 6, 2019)

I would not complain one bit if ECF came back. Loved it on the EOS 3 and Elan 7e.


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## Proscribo (Aug 6, 2019)

PerKr said:


> Would be pretty neat but getting it to work with single point AF might be a stretch given how many focus points mirrorless cameras tend to have. Zone AF with eye control though would be nice. Either way, about time this technology was updated and returned to active duty, especially considering how we now have a gazillion focus points, rendering joysticks a less than optimal alternative.


Amount of af points isn't the issue (we won't be going back to 3 or so anyway), it's that you need to be able to compute accurately where the person is looking at. If you can manage that then the more af points the better.


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## Bahrd (Aug 6, 2019)

♫ Twenty four years, just waitin' for a chance,
To tell [it] how I'm feeling, maybe get a second glance! ♫


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## zonoskar (Aug 6, 2019)

Wouldn't Eye controlled focus make framing a bit more difficult, or at least make the focus wander all around the frame while you check the framing? I never used it on the film camera's, so I don't know.


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## dlmartin81 (Aug 6, 2019)

zonoskar said:


> Wouldn't Eye controlled focus make framing a bit more difficult, or at least make the focus wander all around the frame while you check the framing? I never used it on the film camera's, so I don't know.



I'm curious about that as well.


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## Proscribo (Aug 6, 2019)

zonoskar said:


> Wouldn't Eye controlled focus make framing a bit more difficult, or at least make the focus wander all around the frame while you check the framing? I never used it on the film camera's, so I don't know.


Sure we'd get some "AI" to go with it to decide when you want to refocus.

Realistically back button focus probably is the real way to go


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## bodwigg (Aug 6, 2019)

Maybe the eye controlled focus is active only on half press shutter button or back focus button press?


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## heyjp (Aug 6, 2019)

I had eye control on the A2E back in the 90’s. It was amazing!! Absolutely perfect for framing. The focus was activated the same as today...when you half-press the shutter release. So you frame your shot, look at your focus point, half-depress, the target focus point lights up, and you shoot. 

It was made for creative framing. 

Jim in Boulder


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## koenkooi (Aug 6, 2019)

PerKr said:


> Would be pretty neat but getting it to work with single point AF might be a stretch given how many focus points mirrorless cameras tend to have. Zone AF with eye control though would be nice. Either way, about time this technology was updated and returned to active duty, especially considering how we now have a gazillion focus points, rendering joysticks a less than optimal alternative.



I think it will only be available on L+Tracking mode, so you can pick which face to focus on in groups.


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## edoorn (Aug 6, 2019)

koenkooi said:


> I think it will only be available on L+Tracking mode, so you can pick which face to focus on in groups.


That would be very cool


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## AlanWill (Aug 6, 2019)

I had a couple of EOS 50e's and the eye -focus was great. I don't understand why Canon stopped it. With a DLSR or mirrorless it would need a button to activate it to prevent unwanted activity whilst scanning the frame.


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## -pekr- (Aug 6, 2019)

As I had never an oportunity to experience this technology, I wonder, how convenient it might be? What if I look elsewhere for a moment, because of framing, etc.? Would be nice, if it could be accompanied with the button press for e.g.


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## sailonset (Aug 6, 2019)

Had it on my Elan 7e, Never understood why it disappeared. No need for servo and AI; I have my own eye! Even worked with glasses.


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## SV (Aug 6, 2019)

Oh I hope so - Used it on the A2E and the EOS 3 and it was really useful. I'm surprised it hasn't resurfaced sooner!


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## Jasonmc89 (Aug 6, 2019)

I’m sure it wouldn’t work for all situations, in which case you’d just switch to a normal focus system. I’ve never actually heard a bad thing said about the old eye-focusing system!


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## weixing (Aug 6, 2019)

If the eye control focus is responsive enough, I think will be very useful for wildlife especially BIF.


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## Kit. (Aug 6, 2019)

Had it on Elan 2e, did not work reliably enough for me. Now, 20 years later, it will probably work better.


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## bitcars (Aug 6, 2019)

What if user is wearing glasses (corrective lenses, not sunglasses), Does that affect the eye following?


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## Chaitanya (Aug 6, 2019)

Please bring it back, would be really useful for macro shooting.


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## amorse (Aug 6, 2019)

Neat!

To be honest, while I feel like I'd be able to keep my eye on target to direct focusing, I wonder how accurate my eye movement would be with a moving target. With so many focusing points I'd bet it would be difficult to keep your eye on a small subject and have it hold focus. I suspect the selection might have to just assess which subject you're trying to focus on and have the camera make the more accurate focus adjustment from there - like a focusing hand-off. I.e. I look at a face, hit focus, and the camera performs and holds eye tracking on that face. That could be a killer feature for sports/wildlife where I could use eye tracking to select a subject and have the camera hold it from there among other possible subjects. Not that I do a lot of that kind of photography, but I'd suspect that would be attractive to a lot of buyers.


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## miketcool (Aug 6, 2019)

Seriously, no one needs to wonder about how good ECF is. I used it for years on the EOS 3. I can take a brand new EF lens, do the quick calibration (you look at four dots in the viewfinder), and the camera acts like it’s reading my mind. I’ve always wondered why it went away. Excited for it to come back!


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## canonical (Aug 6, 2019)

YES YES YES, bring it on! The one and only truly intuitive way to control an AF-system. 
Works like a charm on my old Elan 7e. A 2019-worthy new implementation in mirrorfree cameras should be absolutely fantastic. Now with a gazillion of AF-points over 100% of frame. Brilliant. Can't wait to see it in EOS M5 Mk. II and/or M50 Mk. II.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 6, 2019)

canonical said:


> YES YES YES, bring it on! The one and only truly intuitive way to control an AF-system.
> Works like a charm on my old Elan 7e. A 2019-worthy new implementation in mirrorfree cameras should be absolutely fantastic. Now with a gazillion of AF-points over 100% of frame. Brilliant. Can't wait to see it in EOS M5 Mk. II and/or M50 Mk. II.


Canon may reserve it for FF MILCs.


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## canonical (Aug 6, 2019)

bitcars said:


> What if user is wearing glasses (corrective lenses, not sunglasses), Does that affect the eye following?



Works very well for me wearing corrective glasses on my old Elan 7E. A new 2019 implementation of Eye-ControlledAF should be absolutely phenomenal.


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## canonical (Aug 6, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Canon may reserve it for FF MILCs.



possible, Canon being nerfing marketing-differentiating Canon. Although it would be really smart of them to include it in every single Canon EOS camera. It would be their single and truly outstanding USP vs. any competing product by any other manufacturer at every level (especially if their new patents hold water). I would even forgive Canon -1 EV dynamic range vs. Sony/Nikon sensors in exchange for a well-working, "2019-worthy" implementation of ECF.


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## canonnews (Aug 6, 2019)

amorse said:


> Neat!
> 
> To be honest, while I feel like I'd be able to keep my eye on target to direct focusing, I wonder how accurate my eye movement would be with a moving target. With so many focusing points I'd bet it would be difficult to keep your eye on a small subject and have it hold focus. I suspect the selection might have to just assess which subject you're trying to focus on and have the camera make the more accurate focus adjustment from there - like a focusing hand-off. I.e. I look at a face, hit focus, and the camera performs and holds eye tracking on that face. That could be a killer feature for sports/wildlife where I could use eye tracking to select a subject and have the camera hold it from there among other possible subjects. Not that I do a lot of that kind of photography, but I'd suspect that would be attractive to a lot of buyers.



I could see this working well with eye AF - for instance the camera focuses via eye AF which would select the closest eye, and by looking at the eye you want in focus, eye AF would jump to that eye.



neuroanatomist said:


> Canon may reserve it for FF MILCs.



more than likely. consider the extra room it would require in the camera body, this really wouldn't fit in with smaller EOS-M cameras.


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## sdz (Aug 6, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Canon may reserve it for FF MILCs.


Canon might do that. But, why would it?

At this moment, you added FUD to this discussion. We do not know what Canon will do. Nor do we have enough information about the tech to guess at what cameras would work with this technology.


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## amorse (Aug 6, 2019)

canonnews said:


> I could see this working well with eye AF - for instance the camera focuses via eye AF which would select the closest eye, and by looking at the eye you want in focus, eye AF would jump to that eye.


Exactly my thoughts. Not necessarily a focus point selector, but a subject selector - the photographer's eye basically tells the camera what subject he/she is trying to focus on, and the camera holds that focus using the focusing technology we already have in mirrorless cameras. I could see that being a huge asset when there are a lot of potential subjects in frame where the camera has a hard time finding the one you want. For instance, trying to photograph moving action where there are a lot of faces in the frame, you could potentially just look at the face you want to select it, and let the camera hold that focus while you look around to set the composition or check the edges of the frame. Maybe a pipe dream, but that would surely be faster than a joystick or touch to focus on the screen while looking through a viewfinder.


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## Quarkcharmed (Aug 6, 2019)

Might be an exciting feature actually, wonder how it'd work for action shooting, i.e. how often it'd miss the focus on rapidly moving subjects.

Also how about binocular sensors. Use right eye for focus point and left eye for exposure point.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 6, 2019)

I have a Elan 7E still out in my studio, the eye focus works, but is not fantastic and does not always pick up my eye movement, so I have to watch and make sure the AF point moves correctly. I've recalibrated it numerous times. That is really old technology, they can probably make it faster and better by a huge factor if they want. I don't think being mirrorless has anything to do with it, its in the viewfinder and whether eye position is calibrated to the image on the focus screen or a lcd screen should not matter.

After uploading the photo, its amazing how similar the old cameras and the new ones look.


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## Cochese (Aug 6, 2019)

This would be handy right now, considering my joystick just mysteriously broke on my 5DMIV.


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## rikstir (Aug 6, 2019)

Never worked very well for me. Was okay horizontally but didn’t work at all vertically.


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## YuengLinger (Aug 6, 2019)

I still want a thumb controlled joystick.


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## AJ (Aug 6, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Also how about binocular sensors. Use right eye for focus point and left eye for exposure point.


I use my nose on the touch-screen for AF selection. You could use the eye at the same time for exposure. Or vice versa, eye for AF point and nose for exposure.

just kidding


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## Evuhljeenyus (Aug 6, 2019)

What if the user is cockeyed?


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## Wy Li (Aug 6, 2019)

This is cool, but what happens if you're taking a photo of your wife and pretty girl strolls by. There needs to be a quick delete function.


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## canonnews (Aug 6, 2019)

Wy Li said:


> This is cool, but what happens if you're taking a photo of your wife and pretty girl strolls by. There needs to be a quick delete function.



"Hun, why is this girl's booty in focus?"


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## gzroxas (Aug 6, 2019)

Potentially it could be a very interesting feature! I’m also seeing a positive feedback from other users that tried it in the old days!


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## geffy (Aug 6, 2019)

"can’t wait to see it in a pro body"
can’t wait to see a pro body


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## jolyonralph (Aug 6, 2019)

I think people are misunderstanding what this will do. It won't move your focus point like a joystick or like the way the old EOS 3 did, it will simply feed back to the AI within the camera to help guide it to automatically detect what object you want in focus and where to start hunting for eyes, etc. You might even be completely unaware that it's doing anything, it will just 'magically' be able to focus on things properly. This is why it's only for mirrorless and won't work on a DSLR.


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## magarity (Aug 6, 2019)

canonnews said:


> "Hun, why is this girl's booty in focus?"


Motion tracking, obviously


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## canonical (Aug 6, 2019)

YuengLinger said:


> I still want a thumb controlled joystick.



it is not mutually exclusive. And users can switch ECF on or off as desired - even on the 1990''s Canon SLRs there's a simple, straightforward hardware switch: OFF / ON / Calibrate.


http://www.sailnut.com/camera-archive.com/sites/default/files/elan3.jpg



"The EOS 3 stands out because of its extraordinary autofocus system, which clairvoyantly reads your mind to know exactly which of its sea of 45 AF sensors to use for each shot. The EOS 3's AF system is so much faster and easier to use and to set than anything available today.

When I first picked it up, I was astonished at *how it just knew where I wanted it to focus, without me having to to do anything*. No matter if I wanted to focus on the obvious part of an image, or a subtle, low-contrast item off to the side, the EOS 3 somehow just knew, and magically used the correct AF sensor every time.

Then I realized that it has Eye Controlled Focus, a name which doesn't do this system justice. It should be called "*mind-controlled autofocus*," since you don't have to do anything to control the AF system other than just shoot. The AF system is constantly looking at your eye, and already knows where you're looking when you press the shutter, so without you even having to think, the EOS 3 already knows where it needs to focus, and it just does.

The EOS 3's AF system is far ahead of today's cameras, which no longer use this expensive system. With newer cameras, we again have to slave through dicking around with knobs and dials to choose AF points, something the EOS 3 does all by itself by magic.

If for some reason you dislike the magic mind-reading AF system, it's easy to set back to old-fashioned manual AF point selection, or also can be set to auto AF point selection, which works as well as the same non-mind-reading modes of today's cameras."




__





Canon EOS 3 Review






kenrockwell.com


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## canonical (Aug 6, 2019)

2019 sensors to track optical axis of user's eye should also be a lot higher-resolution than old 1990's implementations. I don't see a real issue controlling 80 megapixel DPAF points with a decent eye-tracking sensor plus some AI magic, a solid DIGIC processor and "multi-click gestures", like eg a simple "double blink" to lock onto a selected part / subject in the image frame. Combined with 3D motion tracking, face and subject eye tracking. "Canon can" right?


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## Kit. (Aug 6, 2019)

jolyonralph said:


> This is why it's only for mirrorless and won't work on a DSLR.


It might still work with the RGB+IR sensor on a DSLR.


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## miketcool (Aug 6, 2019)

It was a simple IR sensor that tracked your pupil in the old days. I imagine there is a far more sophisticated way to do this now!


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## tmroper (Aug 6, 2019)

It's worth another try, and now's certainly a good time for another try.


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## navastronia (Aug 6, 2019)

YuengLinger said:


> I still want a thumb controlled joystick.



Let's hope for both?

And am I the only one who had never heard of this technology and am floored by both how old it is and the fact that most people seem to have liked it?


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## flip314 (Aug 6, 2019)

Evuhljeenyus said:


> What if the user is cockeyed?



I think you've inadvertently invented another new, creative way to control focus while keeping your hands free...


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## slclick (Aug 6, 2019)

The EOS 3 was and still is a great camera body.


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## slclick (Aug 6, 2019)

Kit. said:


> Had it on Elan 2e, did not work reliably enough for me. Now, 20 years later, it will probably work better.


The Elans were always in the shadow of the 1/3/5 series. Like comparing a 5D Mk 3 to a T3i.


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## slclick (Aug 6, 2019)

sailonset said:


> Had it on my Elan 7e, Never understood why it disappeared. No need for servo and AI; I have my own eye! Even worked with glasses.


The 7e implementation was spotty for me, the EOS 3 was much better. Someone will now tell me it was the same guts.


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## canonical (Aug 7, 2019)

slclick said:


> The Elans were always in the shadow of the 1/3/5 series. Like comparing a 5D Mk 3 to a T3i.



Elan 7E is well above any Rebel series SLR. It is basically a film predecessor (launched 2000) in line with later EOS 10D model which also had 7 AF point system (intermediate D30 and D60 models had only 3 AF fields). 

EOS 3 AF system is a lot more refined with 45 AF points, so ECF needed to be a lot more precise.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 7, 2019)

sdz said:


> Canon might do that. But, why would it?
> 
> At this moment, you added FUD to this discussion. We do not know what Canon will do. Nor do we have enough information about the tech to guess at what cameras would work with this technology.


Market segmentation. Technical reasons – as pointed out above, size of the needed sensor and EVF. Cost – inclusion would necessitate too high a price for the M line.

Or for your personal hobby-horse reasons – because they have disdain for their customers and treat them with scorn.

It’s sad that you’re fearful, uncertain and full of doubt. Must be challenging to go through life like that, perhaps that accounts at least in part for your behavior.


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## degos (Aug 7, 2019)

canonnews said:


> "Hun, why is this girl's booty in focus?"



"Because it's better than yours"

If you wouldn't say that to your wife then I feel sorry for you.


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## sdz (Aug 7, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Market segmentation. Technical reasons – as pointed out above, size of the needed sensor and EVF. Cost – inclusion would necessitate too high a price for the M line.
> 
> Or for your personal hobby-horse reasons – because they have disdain for their customers and treat them with scorn.
> 
> It’s sad that you’re fearful, uncertain and full of doubt. Must be challenging to go through life like that, perhaps that accounts at least in part for your behavior.



Blahhh haa, ha! FUD = Bull S**T


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 7, 2019)

sdz said:


> Blahhh haa, ha


From an intellectual standpoint, a reply thoroughly commensurate with your previous responses. Full marks for consistency, though.


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## hamish (Aug 7, 2019)

canonnews said:


> "Hun, why is this girl's booty in focus?"



My wife: "Hun, this girl's booty is in focus. Well done!"


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## amorse (Aug 7, 2019)

jolyonralph said:


> I think people are misunderstanding what this will do. It won't move your focus point like a joystick or like the way the old EOS 3 did, it will simply feed back to the AI within the camera to help guide it to automatically detect what object you want in focus and where to start hunting for eyes, etc. You might even be completely unaware that it's doing anything, it will just 'magically' be able to focus on things properly. This is why it's only for mirrorless and won't work on a DSLR.


See, now that makes sense and could be really useful. I can't imagine that eye detection would be useful for moving individual focus points with so many of them available. If it was only moving the focus point and not feeding info to the AI, I imagine the selected AF point would always be lagging just a bit behind where my eye was looking (especially if I'm looking around quickly) which would become really annoying really fast. This makes much more sense.


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## victorshikhman (Aug 7, 2019)

It's not a released feature yet, but this might be Canon trying to both change the conversation (here's a feature no one else has!), and also reducing the workload on the AI autofocus, which is an area they're probably very behind in. If the AI can be directed to evaluate a portion of the image frame with eye focus, instead of trying to search the entire image for eyes, faces, birds, etc, this could offer easy gains in speed and performance.


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## edoorn (Aug 7, 2019)

I would say a feature like this also requires some processor workload so not sure it’s used to reduce that. Once an initial lock has been made, the camera still has to track the subject. I suppose next gen processors will be better anyway.


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## PerKr (Aug 7, 2019)

Proscribo said:


> Amount of af points isn't the issue (we won't be going back to 3 or so anyway), it's that you need to be able to compute accurately where the person is looking at. If you can manage that then the more af points the better.



The problem is the points are so close together with image-sensor based AF requiring higher precision in determining exactly where a user is looking.


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## canonical (Aug 7, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Technical reasons – as pointed out above, size of the needed sensor and EVF.



good point.

while the patent drawing included with article may only be an indication, it shows that an "ECF v2019" system would indeed consist of a number of components that need some space in cameras' "EVF hump": a partly transmissive fixed mirror (so much for mirrorless  ), at least 1 or even 2 (?) image sensor/s, an illumination source and lenses for a second lightpath in camera tracking pupil or ideally direction of optical axis of user's eyewith sufficiently high resolution.

plus additional power requirements to drive the system and processing of that data and interface loop with camera's AF system (= stronger or dedicated AF processor).

and then there's always Canon's evident propensity for "marketing differentiation" independent of any technical facts.

but atm we can only speculate if and in which camera/s Canon might include "ECF reloaded". It might not come first in a high-end flagship camera, but in a more modest model until technology is totally reliable and fully "field-tested" by buyers of lower-end cameras.

But if done right, ECF would certainly be a major asset and USP in any Canon camera and could well be a significant enough reason in itself to get nee customers and make a good portion of existing customers upgrade from a previous model.

I would. Getting camera to focus exactly where i want it within the selected frame and/or start tracking of moving subjects/elements from there in a most intuitive, quick and simple way without having to fumble around with control elements like joysticks, buttons or touchscreens would be much appreciated and help me with each and every image, especially in challenging/critical situations.


TL;DR: I do hope Canon will finally (!) follow my longstanding recommendation  and include "ECF reloaded" in future camera models.


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## canonical (Aug 7, 2019)

PerKr said:


> The problem is the points are so close together with image-sensor based AF requiring higher precision in determining exactly where a user is looking.



yes, absolutely. patent drawing suggests a complete, secondary optical lightpath in camera with 1 or even 2 (?) image sensors (essentially a second phase-detect system focussing on user's eye) not just a simple "pupil detecting IR sensor" as used in the old ECF implementation.


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## Aussie shooter (Aug 7, 2019)

First camera many years ago was an Eos 5. Loved the ECF. Would love to see canon bring it back if they can deal with having to pick accurately out of so many points instead of just 5.


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## mb66energy (Aug 7, 2019)

canonical said:


> Works very well for me wearing corrective glasses on my old Elan 7E. A new 2019 implementation of Eye-ControlledAF should be absolutely phenomenal.


Same here with ~-2 spherical and -2.5 cylindrical - stunning that this works. And I support canonical, that in 2019 it might be just better than the old implementations.


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## mb66energy (Aug 7, 2019)

jolyonralph said:


> I think people are misunderstanding what this will do. It won't move your focus point like a joystick or like the way the old EOS 3 did, it will simply feed back to the AI within the camera to help guide it to automatically detect what object you want in focus and where to start hunting for eyes, etc. You might even be completely unaware that it's doing anything, it will just 'magically' be able to focus on things properly. This is why it's only for mirrorless and won't work on a DSLR.


Yeah - it's like using your eyes which are focusing automatically on the object/subject of interest (at least up to ~50 years of age .
IMO a new dimension of intuitive use of cameras and that linked with exposure control (like the eye-brain-system) would be phenomenal.


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## mb66energy (Aug 7, 2019)

edoorn said:


> I would say a feature like this also requires some processor workload so not sure it’s used to reduce that. Once an initial lock has been made, the camera still has to track the subject. I suppose next gen processors will be better anyway.


If you can build a chip which just puts out coordinates calculated from your eye position you have only a little bit processor workload namely to read two 16bit values 10 times a second which is 40 bytes per second compared to 300 000 000 bytes per second throughput for e.g. raw files @ 10 fps.
And I think they will put the "intelligence" into the eye position detection subsystem - which needs to exchange larger amounts of data only during calibration. The calibration might work like that of a pen enabled display: In the display you will see different crosses and you have to look at them + confirm if you have positioned your eyeball correctly. After 10 positions the system might have enough data to shift/scale/rotate the eyeball data to match the AF point and the eye postition detection system can operate independantly delivering data to the CPU.

Sam with these switches between EVF and TFT: I suspect it is a small LIDAR ranger besides the ocular lens which measures the distance and only sends the distance data to the CPU which switches between both display systems according to a distance threshold. This works with all objects hence my idea of a LIDAR ranger (e.g.
GY-VL53L0XV2, I tried it with arduino and it works very well up to 100mm with objects of different color within a 3mm error).


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## mb66energy (Aug 7, 2019)

Why 4 posts? I am really excited about the last bastion to make focusing more intuitive. Maybe we will see this feature in an entry level camera, maybe M50 mark ii or mark iii for the "advanced Joe Average" because it makes taking social photographs much easier while being interesting for almost ALL photographers and almost all fields of photography.


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## M_S (Aug 7, 2019)

I am not sure how that feature would make sense to me, at least for now. I am constantly looking around, so I have to stare in one direction to tell the camera I want focus in that area? The FRO would focus all over the place with his rapid eye movement.
Since I love more the tactile nature of taking pics, a working touchpad or dedicated focus-button would be enough at least for me. If that feature is manageable via a menu (ON / OFF) yeah sure why not, could give it a try...


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## hamish (Aug 7, 2019)

I wonder if this can tell if you're a replicant?


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## canonical (Aug 7, 2019)

hamish said:


> I wonder if this can tell if you're a replicant?



no. but if you're a vampire the semi-translucent mirror in the ECF system may not work.


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## justaCanonuser (Aug 7, 2019)

DBounce said:


> The original version was so good that many claimed it was telepathic. I think Canons’ got this one in the bag. I can’t wait to see it in a pro body.


Not for those who wear glasses. I never got Eye control in my EOS 3 to work properly, so I switched it off. Would be great if Canon could revive it in a much improved version.


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## GMCPhotographics (Aug 7, 2019)

colorblinded said:


> I would not complain one bit if ECF came back. Loved it on the EOS 3 and Elan 7e.


Yep, I had and still have a 7e/ elan 33. It kind of works pretty well. But that was with only 7 point AF and it was a little hap-hazard. It mostly worked if you calibrated it regularly. I wonder if Canon have advanced the tech since then and made it more accurate. I also wonder if it's works but moving the points about using eye movement gestures...much like swiping. As opposed to the look at this point and hopefully the system will select the same point....


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## canonmike (Aug 7, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


I so loved the eye control focus feature that was prevalent on the EOS-3 body and have missed seeing it on any subsequent camera(s). Calibration for user's eye was simple, even for eyeglass wearers and for me, it just worked. I have been disappointed that, for years now, Canon has chosen not to include this great feature. I, have no doubt that many CR readers are not familiar with this feature set. I, for one, was always amazed at how well it worked. It was an available option on the EOS-3 and Elan 7e bodies, but you did not have to employ it, opting instead, if you chose, for regular auto focus. Yes, please make it available again, Canon. I miss it.


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## canonmike (Aug 7, 2019)

justaCanonuser said:


> Not for those who wear glasses. I never got Eye control in my EOS 3 to work properly, so I switched it off. Would be great if Canon could revive it in a much improved version.


Sorry you had problems, as an eye glass wearer, getting it to work. I, also wear glasses and never had a problem calibrating it while wearing my eyewear. Don't know the reason for our different experiences but I had two EOS 3 and one Elan 7e bodies and the feature worked in all three for me. If they offer eye control focus in a future Canon body, perhaps, as you say, it will be much improved in the newer version.


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## Timedog (Aug 7, 2019)

Yessssssssssssssss


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## mb66energy (Aug 7, 2019)

M_S said:


> I am not sure how that feature would make sense to me, at least for now. I am constantly looking around, so I have to stare in one direction to tell the camera I want focus in that area? The FRO would focus all over the place with his rapid eye movement.
> Since I love more the tactile nature of taking pics, a working touchpad or dedicated focus-button would be enough at least for me. If that feature is manageable via a menu (ON / OFF) yeah sure why not, could give it a try...


There should be at least a setting that allows eye focus to be active on a button press: Press the button, chose the AF point, release the button and look around as you like it ...


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## canonical (Aug 7, 2019)

mb66energy said:


> There should be at least a setting that allows eye focus to be active on a button press: Press the button, chose the AF point, release the button and look around as you like it ...



yep. "AF-ON" button / "back button focus"


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## masterpix (Aug 7, 2019)

Well, I see a serious problem with this, you need to continue looking at the object you are focusing on, and while there is a small lag between the iamge on teh EVF and the actual image, there might be cases where you think you focus on the subject, but actually, then the image is taken, it focus on something else. That is why many wild life and sport photographers prefere the manual focus, they know it won't "change" in the critical moment.


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## Ozarker (Aug 7, 2019)

sdz said:


> Canon might do that. But, why would it?
> 
> At this moment, you added FUD to this discussion. We do not know what Canon will do. Nor do we have enough information about the tech to guess at what cameras would work with this technology.


Everything is a guess at this point, so I don't see any problem with Neuro's probably educated guess. His statement makes perfect sense to me, but we'll see.


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## Ozarker (Aug 7, 2019)

hamish said:


> My wife: "Hun, this girl's booty is in focus. Well done!"


Yup. My wife loves when I look and snap. No jealousy. She can appreciate the beauty as well as I.


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## sdz (Aug 7, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Everything is a guess at this point, so I don't see any problem with Neuro's probably educated guess. His statement makes perfect sense to me, but we'll see.



Why tell someone that a wished for feature will not appear in a camera they want without relying upon evidence showing what the camera maker will do, will likely do, etc. It's one thing to speculate with like-minded individuals, it's another to spread FUD to people with a wish. My past exchanges wit him motivates me to refuse to give him the benefit of the doubt.


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## BillB (Aug 7, 2019)

sdz said:


> Why tell someone that a wished for feature will not appear in a camera they want without relying upon evidence showing what the camera maker will do, will likely do, etc. It's one thing to speculate with like-minded individuals, it's another to spread FUD to people with a wish. My past exchanges wit him motivates me to refuse to give him the benefit of the doubt.


Neuro was pretty clear that he was guessing, and it seems a stretch to me to label a guess as FUD.


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## Ozarker (Aug 8, 2019)

BillB said:


> Neuro was pretty clear that he was guessing, and it seems a stretch to me to label a guess as FUD.


Exactly.


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## Ozarker (Aug 8, 2019)

sdz said:


> Why tell someone that a wished for feature will not appear in a camera they want without relying upon evidence showing what the camera maker will do, will likely do, etc. It's one thing to speculate with like-minded individuals, it's another to spread FUD to people with a wish. My past exchanges wit him motivates me to refuse to give him the benefit of the doubt.


Because he ususally knows what he's talking about and because his guess as good as your FUD assumptions. They make pills for those cramps. You shouild take one. Then maybe you'll feel more civil and not so... edgy.


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## sdz (Aug 8, 2019)

BillB said:


> Neuro was pretty clear that he was guessing, and it seems a stretch to me to label a guess as FUD.


If he was guessing, he should keep it to himself.


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## sdz (Aug 8, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Because he ususally knows what he's talking about and because his guess as good as your FUD assumptions. They make pills for those cramps. You shouild take one. Then maybe you'll feel more civil and not so... edgy.



His guess is FUD. If he has made speculative claims with others of like mind, then so be it. But he didn't. I do not have cramps. And I'm civil to a fault. You do not see things that way? Well, que sera....


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## stochasticmotions (Aug 8, 2019)

Can't wait to see if this makes it to production. It will be fun to compare it to my Elan 7e and give me a good reason to use the eye focus as I usually only use that camera for black and white landscapes these days. On a new mirrorless camera this could be a great way to select a subject to track without having to put a point on it and recompose.


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## Ozarker (Aug 8, 2019)

sdz said:


> I do not have cramps. And I'm civil to a fault.


*That which is denied cannot be healed.*


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 8, 2019)

sdz said:


> Why tell someone that a wished for feature *will not* appear in a camera they want...


Try reading what I said again, more carefully. The words are all pretty small, so if you go slow and follow along with your finger, I bet you can manage to comprehend it. I’ll even highlight the relevant bit for you.


neuroanatomist said:


> Canon *may* reserve it for FF MILCs.



As for the why, well...reality. Or in the words of me ol’ Irish Da, “Wish in one hand, shit in the other, and see which fills up first.”



sdz said:


> And I'm civil to a fault. You do not see things that way?


The mods didn’t see it that way when they deleted some of your posts from a past exchange. Or maybe that was because you were being too civil? LOL.



sdz said:


> If he was guessing, he should keep it to himself.


Unfortunately for you, you don’t get to decide what I post. If you don’t like it, you’re free to ignore it. Of course, I don’t get to decide what you post, which means you’re also free to respond in a way that makes you look petulant and foolish...which is exactly what you did.


sdz said:


> Blahhh haa, ha


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## justaCanonuser (Aug 8, 2019)

canonmike said:


> Sorry you had problems, as an eye glass wearer, getting it to work. I, also wear glasses and never had a problem calibrating it while wearing my eyewear. Don't know the reason for our different experiences but I had two EOS 3 and one Elan 7e bodies and the feature worked in all three for me. If they offer eye control focus in a future Canon body, perhaps, as you say, it will be much improved in the newer version.


Maybe the system in my EOS 3 isn't working properly. Another reason could be that the coatings of the glasses I wear interfere too much with the infrared light that the system uses to detect the eye positions. I don't know, I just read some comments on the web of glass wearers having the same problems with the EOS 3. But this is not too bad for me, I miss much more a joystick for the AF point selection, the "dial interface" used by the EOS 3 is a bit quirky. In fact, I both love and hate the EOS 3. I love it for its super precise metering system (ideal for slide film), good AF system (impressive, given the time this camera hit the market), huge selection of different settings, but I hate its non-intuitive interface and the loud motor winder (a real street photography killer).


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## Kit Lens Jockey (Aug 8, 2019)

This is great. I never dreamed this feature might come back after so long. What is Canon's track record of actually getting new technology in patents like this into real cameras?


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## Justhandguns (Aug 8, 2019)

I can see two groups of people here, pre-digital and post digital users. I can understand why people are sceptical about ECF if they have never used it before. It is an extremely useful feature which can help out a lot in getting the correct focus, especially when we are now spoilt with so many large aperture lenses where DoF is so shallow. If the new ECF is fast enough, it may even help out in the type of sports photography that I like. I do miss my EOS5 and EOS50e (Elan).

As for those who found that ECF didn't work well for them, I suspect if you have astigmatism correct on your spec/glasses, it may affect the detection of the IR beam path of the ECF, that was why it did not work for certain type of users.


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## sdz (Aug 8, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> *That which is denied cannot be healed.*



Well, if I don't suffer from the cramps, there is nothing to heal. That means....Well, you figureit out.


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## sdz (Aug 8, 2019)

neuroanatomist said:


> Try reading what I said again, more carefully. The words are all pretty small, so if you go slow and follow along with your finger, I bet you can manage to comprehend it. I’ll even highlight the relevant bit for you.
> 
> 
> As for the why, well...reality. Or in the words of me ol’ Irish Da, “Wish in one hand, shit in the other, and see which fills up first.”
> ...



Ah, a member in good standing of the Internet Tough Guy and Borderline Sociopath Association drops by to provide us with more strawman arguments, which is to say, BS.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 8, 2019)

sdz said:


> Ah, a member in good standing of the Internet Tough Guy and Borderline Sociopath Association drops by to provide us with more strawman arguments, which is to say, BS.


You’re still saying, “Blahhh haa, ha,” and it hasn’t become any less moronic through repetition.


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