# OVF&EVF Vs BackScreen - which better for you?



## Dylan777 (Nov 4, 2015)

Just want to see what methods do you prefer when framing your photos. Do you prefer to frame your photos through OVF/EVF or back screen. Why?

I came from P&S, therefore, framing the shots through back screen is better for me. I recently look through my photos. Most of mirrorless photos seem to have better framing than my 5d and 1Dx. 

Am I the odd one here ;D


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## East Wind Photography (Nov 4, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> Just want to see what methods do you prefer when framing your photos. Do you prefer to frame your photos through OVF/EVF or back screen. Why?
> 
> I came from P&S, therefore, framing the shots through back screen is better for me. I recently look through my photos. Most of mirrorless photos seem to have better framing than my 5d and 1Dx.
> 
> Am I the odd one here ;D



No real back screen use for me. I'm near sighted but with glasses the screen is hard to really use for something critical. EVF has too much lag for me as well. Even with previews disabled you can't really use them well for sports. Seems like a simple fix but no one has done it yet.

So for me and what I shoot, OVF is the only way to go right now.


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## deleteme (Nov 4, 2015)

I prefer EVF/OVF because that is the way I was brought up.

However I have to acknowledge the fact that composing via the LCD can offer better framing because I am much more aware of the edges.
That being said, I cannot stand using the LCD as it is almost always invisible in bright light and holding a heavy camera in front of ones face is very uncomfortable.

Also, I think it makes me look like a sissy.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 4, 2015)

The LCD is of limited use, since I can't view it outdoors in bright sun, and its difficult ergonomically to hold a camera out in front of you and keep it motionless, particularly with a big and heavy lens,

I have only one camera with a EVF, the Canon SX50HS. Its awful.

So, for me, the best is still a OVF, but if EVF technology keeps improving, in 10 years it may be good enough to totally replace OVF's


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## Dylan777 (Nov 4, 2015)

Normalnorm said:


> I prefer EVF/OVF because that is the way I was brought up.
> 
> However I have to acknowledge the fact that composing via the LCD can offer better framing because I am much more aware of the edges.
> That being said, I cannot stand using the LCD as it is almost always invisible in bright light and holding a heavy camera in front of ones face is very uncomfortable.
> ...



Yes....the edges. With ovf/evf my framing seems to be off both in x y lines. Almost have straighten every photos lr.

Back screen seems to help me in this area. It does look sissy ;D


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## Dylan777 (Nov 4, 2015)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> The LCD is of limited use, since I can't view it outdoors in bright sun, and its difficult ergonomically to hold a camera out in front of you and keep it motionless, particularly with a big and heavy lens,
> 
> I have only one camera with a EVF, the Canon SX50HS. Its awful.
> 
> So, for me, the best is still a OVF, but if EVF technology keeps improving, in 10 years it may be good enough to totally replace OVF's



Both Sony a7 and Fuji evf getting better. Still...can't compare to ovf.

I started shooting a lot with back screen , except outdoor.


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## sanj (Nov 4, 2015)

Sense of framing has nothing to do with method of framing sir.


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## PhotographyFirst (Nov 4, 2015)

Funny. I shoot 100% landscapes and EVF is of zero use for me. It's either the OVF for saving battery power or LCD for everything else. 

I am curious why you guys are having issues with LCD brightness in Sunlight. I've never had that issue, but then again, I know better than to shoot any landscapes with the Sun to my back. Front lighting is awful.


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## LDS (Nov 4, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> Just want to see what methods do you prefer when framing your photos. Do you prefer to frame your photos through OVF/EVF or back screen. Why?



Depends on the situation. I find easier to aim quickly and follow the subject with the OVF (probably because always used one), especially with large, heavy lenses, also I believe keeping the arms close to the body enables a stabler and less tiring position. Moreover, having shooting data outside the image is less distracting. An OVF is still better than an EVF when you have to patiently wait for your subject to appear (it drains very little or no power) and it has no "refresh" problems. And EVF can be helpful in low light situations, but the technology needs still to improve.

When the camera is on a tripod and have time to shoot I use the back screen as well. I do activate the grid lines in the viewfinder to help with framing and composition.


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## tiltshift (Nov 4, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > The LCD is of limited use, since I can't view it outdoors in bright sun, and its difficult ergonomically to hold a camera out in front of you and keep it motionless, particularly with a big and heavy lens,
> ...



I think the opposite. starting with a rebel xt ~10 years ago then progressing through various SLRs since up to my current 5dIII I can say I much prefer an EVF. I had the a7R the day it came out and the same for the a7RII. I will on occasion for no other reason pick up and shoot my sony a7RII rather than my 5dIII because it has an EVF. Then for my next subject I will grab my 5DIII because the ovf is the better choice. 

There are pros and cons to each technology/method and I think we are at a point where we can no longer say strictly that one is better then the other (such as you could have several years ago: massive lag, low FPS, resolution, etc, etc). I think it now depends on what and how you like to shoot. 

As for the LCD I only use it for landscape or a tilt LCD for high/low angles.


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## mb66energy (Nov 4, 2015)

After getting a 5D I would say: A good OVF rules. MF is easy on the large matte screen, composition and framing to. After 2000 shots I have a good idea of what are 98%. I use crop very seldom -- typically taking photographs of more or less static objects.

My dream camera in terms of view finder: OVF/EVF switchable to have exp. simulation and a video viewfinder well visible under bright light conditions + a tiltable and bright display.

My history: I used OVF on Canon EF (camera!) and the "display" of the twin-lensed RolleiCord so I have been educated with both ways to look through a camera. I liked a lot about the distance to the flattened image on the matte screen of the RolleiCord which was similar to a small print of a photo ...


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## Maximilian (Nov 4, 2015)

An OVF (or EVF, I don't discuss the differences between them here) is my 95 to 100% solution, because it has three main advantages:
- no reflections, no bad contrast due to external light sources or bright sun light
- better concentration on framing and composition
- better, more steady shooting position. Less shaky compared to lose hand holding, esp. with bigger/heavier lenses.

I still haven't seen a back screen yet that can be used in bright white snow on a sunny winter day.
That's my bench mark. Until then no camera without any kind of view finder.

The 0 to 5% rest are because of shooting positions where I am not able to use the VF.


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## RGF (Nov 4, 2015)

I compose with OVF or EVF if I use my Sony.

I will use the back screen with magnification to check critical sharpness, esp when I am focus stacking.
This can be difficult in bright light so I will toss a check over my head and the camera. Should bring a black cloth like the old photographers who used glass plates did.


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## Dylan777 (Nov 4, 2015)

RGF said:


> I compose with OVF or EVF if I use my Sony.
> 
> I will use the back screen with magnification to check critical sharpness, esp when I am focus stacking.
> This can be difficult in bright light so I will toss a check over my head and the camera. Should bring a black cloth like the old photographers who used glass plates did.



How a7r II + Canon lenses working out for you?


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## Don Haines (Nov 4, 2015)

I prefer the OVF/EVF, but last week I was doing a series of photographs in VERY tight quarters that were so cramped that I brought in my 60D with the tilt/swivel screen to get the job done....

I think that everything has it's time and place.......


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## JohnDizzo15 (Nov 4, 2015)

I think that if you are asking shooters that haven't had a whole lot of experience with current mirrorless offerings, you will generally get people saying they hardly ever use the LCD for this. But if you ask people on the Fuji or Sony forums, I think you'll get much different answers.

I personally believe it depends on your subject, style of shooting, and scenario. I never used it with any of DSLRs as it is sluggish and basically useless for anything other than very static and controlled environment type work. 

For my shooting (mostly my kids, family, friends, etc), the rear tilting LCD is priceless and gets used for at least 50% if not more of my shooting these days. The responsiveness and utility of being able to shoot from lower angles and tilting the screen is awesome on the Fuji xt1 and the A7R2 I picked up recently.


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## 3kramd5 (Nov 4, 2015)

I frame about 85% of the time using the OVF or EVF, and 15% using the back screen. That 15% is when I'm on a tripod for still subjects.


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## Dylan777 (Nov 4, 2015)

JohnDizzo15 said:


> I think that if you are asking shooters that haven't had a whole lot of experience with current mirrorless offerings, you will generally get people saying they hardly ever use the LCD for this. But if you ask people on the Fuji or Sony forums, I think you'll get much different answers.
> 
> I personally believe it depends on your subject, style of shooting, and scenario. I never used it with any of DSLRs as it is sluggish and basically useless for anything other than very static and controlled environment type work.
> 
> For my shooting (mostly my kids, family, friends, etc), the rear tilting LCD is priceless and gets used for at least 50% if not more of my shooting these days. The responsiveness and utility of being able to shoot from lower angles and tilting the screen is awesome on the Fuji xt1 and the A7R2 I picked up recently.



Good to hear from you again John.

Have you try the Batis lenses yet? Be careful


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## dak723 (Nov 4, 2015)

As a long time SLR user, I find the back screen totally useless for taking pics. Can not possibly hold the camera steady or straight without holding it up to my eye.

Have used an Olympus OM-D for last couple years along with my Canons. The Olympus EVF is pretty good, but still can't compare with an OVF. Tried the Sony A7 and A7 II and the EVF was one of the main reasons I returned them. So, still prefer the OVF.


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## JohnDizzo15 (Nov 4, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> Good to hear from you again John.
> 
> Have you try the Batis lenses yet? Be careful


 

Had to take a break for a while because things got rather uninteresting around these parts. Finally saw a decent topic today in the right pane 

Haven't tried the Batis lenses yet. Started with metabones IV and the native 28/2. Sold my Pentax K5IIs rig and the 6D today which subsequently prompted an overnight shipping order for the FE 35/1.4 which will be here tomorrow. 

Probably going to stay away from the Batis lenses unless they put out faster stuff. I'm inclined to not pay those prices for slower lenses regardless of how good the optics are. You know me, whore for speed. lol.


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## Dylan777 (Nov 5, 2015)

JohnDizzo15 said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > Good to hear from you again John.
> ...



hehe...

FE35/f1.4 be prepare to fall in love. I took about 100ish shots with my a7s from rental. Haven't try with a7r II yet.

Do me a favor...DO NOT post your FE35/1.4 with A7r II photos to this thread. I might end up with one 8)


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## old-pr-pix (Nov 5, 2015)

Unscientific, but I'd guess 40% with EVF, 40% with OVF and 20% rear screen. EVF works great in low light - not night vision, but better than a dim OVF. EVF on my OMD E-M5II is very responsive, min. lag and effects of EC etc. are immediately obvious. OVF on Canon is good for most everything except real low light. OVF saves battery power when shot requires a lot of waiting for just the right moment. Rear screen gets used only for magnified manual focus, when the tilty-flippy screen is used, sometimes with camera tripod mounted, and for selfie (really rare for me!), etc. 

I always set viewfinder and rear screen to show grid lines at rule of thirds spacing. Same for OVF if gridded screen is available. I find the grid lines really help with composition and level horizons/vertical buildings.

Current generation of EVF's are really very good. I'm lucky enough to have both EVF & OVF cameras. The only thing I won't depend on the EVF for is a set-up and wait type shot where it might drain the battery too much.


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## Aglet (Nov 5, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> Just want to see what methods do you prefer when framing your photos. Do you prefer to frame your photos through OVF/EVF or back screen. Why?
> 
> I came from P&S, therefore, framing the shots through back screen is better for me. I recently look through my photos. Most of mirrorless photos seem to have better framing than my 5d and 1Dx.
> 
> Am I the odd one here ;D


 +1
I've framed better using rear display or EVF than OVF.
Better coverage, no misalignment issues, obviously composing more slowly than when using OVF.


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## PhotographyFirst (Nov 5, 2015)

JohnDizzo15 said:


> I think that if you are asking shooters that haven't had a whole lot of experience with current mirrorless offerings, you will generally get people saying they hardly ever use the LCD for this. But if you ask people on the Fuji or Sony forums, I think you'll get much different answers.
> 
> I personally believe it depends on your subject, style of shooting, and scenario. I never used it with any of DSLRs as it is sluggish and basically useless for anything other than very static and controlled environment type work.
> 
> For my shooting (mostly my kids, family, friends, etc), the rear tilting LCD is priceless and gets used for at least 50% if not more of my shooting these days. The responsiveness and utility of being able to shoot from lower angles and tilting the screen is awesome on the Fuji xt1 and the A7R2 I picked up recently.


+1 on those articulating screens! I love being able to hold the camera right at my waist on the tripod and look down to use the camera while holding an umbrella over my head to keep the moisture away. Having to bend down and look behind at the LCD or through the viewfinder means my ass is getting wet because the umbrella is too far forward. It also helps when shooting into the Sun for prolonged periods of time, as you can look down and not be blinded by the Sun.


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## JohnDizzo15 (Nov 5, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> JohnDizzo15 said:
> 
> 
> > Dylan777 said:
> ...



It's here! Lol.


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## eml58 (Nov 5, 2015)

It's an interesting question, as are the answers.

And in my own situation it does depend on what I'm doing.

Wildlife is definitely all OVF

Since I dabbled with the Sony a7r I've had a liking for the EVF, not in particular the one on the a7r, so I recently purchased the Zacuto Gratical HD EVF system, and I'm exceptionally impressed at just how good this piece of gear is, I've yet to try it on a Cheetah at 80KPH, but everything else it does wonderfully well. It is of course an extra piece of gear, but at present the trade offs seem to work for me.

Night time shooting I tend to lean on the LCD screen.


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## Dylan777 (Nov 5, 2015)

JohnDizzo15 said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > JohnDizzo15 said:
> ...



Congrats John....it's a beautiful lens.


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## benperrin (Nov 6, 2015)

EVF for portrait and landscape. It's fun trying out different white balances/b&w effects in camera to quickly make a creative decision. It also reduces the need for test shots mostly. Having some sort of tilt available on the back screen is also a big advantage. For all other things though I still prefer an OVF. Something like the 5ds with the digital level is really helpful.


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## sdsr (Nov 6, 2015)

For me, as near 100% viewfinder as makes no difference. Perhaps because I grew up with film cameras I can't stand using anything other than a viewfinder: it makes the whole experience of making a photo more immediate, and I find it far easier to concentrate on what I'm doing - focusing, framing, etc. (I can't imagine focusing manually - my preference - by looking at a piddly little image on the back of a camera held away from my face, or AF in tricky conditions). And I prefer an EVF to an OVF because it's so much easier to tell if the exposure and focus are right - it's nice to be able to check exposure, focus peaking and magnification, and the results, with the image against your eye where the image is so much bigger. The extra stability provided by holding a camera against your face doesn't hurt either. (Plus, it's much more discreet taking photos that way - it's pretty obvious when you're taking a photo with arms extended, and you don't look anywhere near as silly.) For these reasons I won't buy a camera that lacks a viewfinder, and will only use my iphone to take a photo in an emergency.


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## TeT (Nov 6, 2015)

Viewfinder... seems more natural.


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## MrFotoFool (Nov 6, 2015)

Optical viewfinder all the way. It drives me nuts that point and shoot cameras mostly do not have viewfinders (not that many people use point and shoot cameras these days).

I have the original EOS M with 22 pancake only because it was on sale a while ago for $250 and I wanted the better quality of APS C sensor for my pocket camera. But the lack of viewfinder is really annoying and if I could get the money I would replace it with Fuji X100S (APS C with built in viewfinder).


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## pwp (Nov 7, 2015)

Backscreen is a useful tool, but just _know _when to lift the camera up to your face. It's like keeping both hands on the steering wheel when the pressure is on and things start moving very quickly or unpredictably. That speed can be right in your face (so to speak) or tantalizingly subtle. It's usually too fast for conscious thought. It's also true that sometimes using the backscreen can be useful to keep in open communication with your subject. Some photographers will unconsciously hide behind their camera with OVF or EVF. The way I see it there are no rights or wrongs. Just good choices.

Try matching successfully nailing that completely intuitive peak moment that just shimmers past you in a heartbeat with an OVF and to some degree an EVF vs a backscreen. Try hand-holding at 1/15 sec or slower without the camera steadied against your face, that physically vital third point of contact. It's plain smart to engage as many attributes available to you as possible to get the shot and come home with as high a percentage of keepers as you can. 

OVF & EVF vs BackScreen? I like and use them all.

-pw


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## Dylan777 (Nov 7, 2015)

pwp said:


> Backscreen is a useful tool, but just _know _when to lift the camera up to your face. It's like keeping both hands on the steering wheel when the pressure is on and things start moving very quickly or unpredictably. That speed can be right in your face (so to speak) or tantalizingly subtle. It's usually too fast for conscious thought. It's also true that sometimes using the backscreen can be useful to keep in open communication with your subject. Some photographers will unconsciously hide behind their camera with OVF or EVF. The way I see it there are no rights or wrongs. Just good choices.
> 
> Try matching successfully nailing that completely intuitive peak moment that just shimmers past you in a heartbeat with an OVF and to some degree an EVF vs a backscreen. Try hand-holding at 1/15 sec or slower without the camera steadied against your face, that physically vital third point of contact. It's plain smart to engage as many attributes available to you as possible to get the shot and come home with as high a percentage of keepers as you can.
> 
> ...



We burned the 1st log this morning to welcome the up coming winter. Without the back/swivel screen, I would be on the ground to frame the shot.

A7r II + Batis FE25


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## pwp (Nov 7, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> pwp said:
> 
> 
> > OVF & EVF vs BackScreen? I like and use them all.
> ...



That's a nice cosy shot! Yes, the capacity for ground level shooting is definitely a top attribute of an articulated backscreen. Lucky you with the Batis FE25!

-pw


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## JohnDizzo15 (Nov 30, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> Congrats John....it's a beautiful lens.



Sooooo.... the 35 was shipped back. lol. Just shockingly inconsistent for the price tag. So instead, recently reacquired the 50L, 50 Art and 85L2 so I could have fast glass for the Sony for the time-being.

Nice shot with the Batis btw. 

Here's a couple of my tilting screen shots.


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