# Picked up 5DS R - specialist tool. How about everyday?



## Act444 (Sep 6, 2016)

Hey,

So the 5D4 was announced and as a 5D3 owner, as soon as I saw the resolution bump, I wasn't thrilled (I've covered it in other threads, I won't rehash it here). That said, there are a few limited applications where I wished I had just a few more pixels to work with (usually when cropping). To make a long story short, I reasoned that if I'm going to go for more resolution, why stop at 30? May as well just go all the way to 50...therefore, I can keep 22 (5D3) for most of my shooting, but have 50 (5DS R) on tap for those applications where I desire it. 

So, now to dive in...

I got the 5DS R for very specific applications - controlled environments, so to speak - but curiosity got the better of me earlier today so I ventured out to see how it handled "everyday" photography so to speak. So I just went out, usual structures, flowers, etc. These are some takeaways from that outing...from the view of the "everyday" camera, rather than the specialty point of view that most reviews seem to offer. 

Pros

- RESOLUTION: As someone who has never utilized a camera with >22MP before, the sheer detail captured by this camera is a revelation. Background: I used to own a 7D2 and I was never happy with the image quality from that camera...so with the talk of the 5DS cameras having similar image quality at the pixel level, and seeing image samples, I was initially underwhelmed. But, having taken it out myself, I can now say that the 5DS R squeezes out more fine detail than my old 7D ever did, even at moderately high ISOs. Once you get to 3200 and above, the gap narrows considerably, and it becomes a wash - but I'd still give the 5DS R a slight edge over the 7D2. The 5D3 is still the best performer in that range. 

- CROPPING POWER, ADDED REACH: I mentioned detail, right? With the 100-400 mounted, when shooting distant subjects I'm realizing that I have significantly more reach than before. Meaning I can crop further into the shot, or stand farther back when shooting (with the intent to crop later) if getting closer isn't possible or desirable. Not only that, but on a pixel level, in good light the shots appear to have more detail in them than I remember seeing with the 7D. Fine detail also seems better refined at 100% view than even with the 5D3 (which, although razor sharp, can be a bit rough in appearance at times). Possibly this could be attributed to the cancelled AA filter effect?


Cons

- SPEED: The 5DS R is probably the slowest camera I've had since my old T2i - and I mean this not only in burst mode, but shot-to-shot times as well. It's taking a couple of seconds between shot taken and shot appearing on LCD screen, which isn't a major issue but stands out when you're used to the image appearing right away on the 5D3, 7D2, etc. 

- MODIFIED SHOOTING STYLE: I've noticed I really have had to pay attention to shutter speed and check every image to make sure it's at least acceptably sharp. Usually on the 5D3 it's only a concern with action shots or moving subjects, but on the S there were a couple instances where the image (at 100%) just had a TINY amount of what appears to be motion blur - looks fine if downsized a tad, but then the extra resolution ends up being wasted and I just end up with an unnecessarily large file. Looks like I will have to look at raising the minimum shutter speed in Av mode when using telephotos with this camera...

- ISO: This one is a given, but when I saw noticeable noise in an image and saw that the ISO was only 640...coming from a 5D3, let's just say an eyebrow was raised. 

Neither

- I'm finding lens choice is critical with this camera...a 24-105 just won't cut it here. Instead, I plan to use the 100 Macro, 85 1.2, and perhaps the 35 to get the most out of the sensor. The only zoom lenses I'd feel comfortable using on the 5DSR are the 100-400 II and the 70-200 2.8 II - and even then, probably only in good light (outdoors). I haven't had a chance to try the wide-angle zooms on the camera, perhaps the new 16-35 2.8 III could do it justice as well...


*Conclusion:* This camera excels where it was intended to - in pure resolving power. The detail is incredible, and holds up to higher ISOs than the equivalent crop-sensor cameras I've used in the past. As an everyday camera, however, I'm finding the drawbacks to outweigh the positives. While 50 MP is an outstanding revelation, in my experience, the slowness and added attention to detail demanded of the shooter do not lend well to my everyday style of shooting. That's not what I bought the camera for, but it was still interesting to see how it would hold up. Basically, I confirmed it cannot _replace_ my 5D3, but makes a great companion to it - compliments it well, so to speak. In the case I decide to move the main camera up to a 1DX2, the 5DSR could fit in even better in that aspect. 

Generally, I like what I'm seeing so far. Can't wait to use it to its real potential later on! 

Anyone use a 5DS(R) as their MAIN camera (not backup or specialist)?


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## East Wind Photography (Sep 6, 2016)

Its a great camera if speed is not a concern. I found everything about it very slow. It does shoot very nice high res photos but it could not keep up with my sports and wildlife interests. I ended up trading it in for a 1dx2.

Another thing ill mention is the weather sealing is not very good. Got caught in a light rain shower and even though i protected the camera best i could, rain still got in and destroyed the main board. Fortunately it was still covered under carepak and was repaired for free. I consider it a fair weather camera unless you use a quality rain sleeve.


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## Act444 (Sep 6, 2016)

East Wind Photography said:


> Another thing ill mention is the weather sealing is not very good. Got caught in a light rain shower and even though i protected the camera best i could, rain still got in and destroyed the main board. Fortunately it was still covered under carepak and was repaired for free. I consider it a fair weather camera unless you use a quality rain sleeve.



Hmm, interesting, thanks for sharing that tidbit. Sorry that happened to you though. I'll keep that in mind. 

Another strike against using it as an everyday cam: high ISO performance. That coupled with the higher shutter speeds needed to stop motion (whether it's your shake or subject movement) pushing you quicker towards that ceiling. It's fine for still subjects (think posed portraits, still life), but as soon as anything starts moving, it struggles and you can forget it.


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## East Wind Photography (Sep 6, 2016)

Act444 said:


> East Wind Photography said:
> 
> 
> > Another thing ill mention is the weather sealing is not very good. Got caught in a light rain shower and even though i protected the camera best i could, rain still got in and destroyed the main board. Fortunately it was still covered under carepak and was repaired for free. I consider it a fair weather camera unless you use a quality rain sleeve.
> ...



Yes thats true. The high iso performance is a touch better than the 7d2 but the extra resolution is less forgiving. Great for landscapes, portraits and still wildlife.


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## scyrene (Sep 6, 2016)

Yes, I use it as my main camera. I don't find it slow - but I've never been a speed freak. I upgraded my memory card at the same time, so maybe that accounted for some of it (I went from a slowish SD card on the 5D3 to a fast CF card on the 5Ds). I've even used it for swifts in flight - one of the fastest subjects you can photograph - and it did okay. The massive cropping ability overweighed the lower fps in my opinion - a longer lens would have been harder to swing around, and keeping the birds in shot would be more difficult with a narrower FOV, but using a wider lens and cropping afterwards worked fine (they're not award-winning shots, but fine for my purposes).

The weather sealing is a surprise! I thought it was meant to be as good as the 5D3's? I genuinely don't know about this, does anyone have the official line?

Camera shake affecting per pixel sharpness is an issue, I have to say. If you're downsizing it makes no difference compared to the 5D3, but if you crop a lot it can be worthwhile shooting at somewhat faster shutter speeds.

Finally, as for ISO - again I'm a bit surprised. If you're comparing 100% to the 5D3, it won't look any better, although as others have pointed out, it has less banding, cleaner shadows, and less of a colour cast at high ISO (the 5D3 is so magenta). But I shoot with it at the same ISO speeds as I did with the 5D3 and it's just as good - even better if you're not cropping.

I've not done any standardised tests, these are just my impressions. The lack of ISO settings above 12800 is a shame, though.


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## Zeidora (Sep 7, 2016)

The 5DsR is my main camera. I've always shot in the very controlled way, particularly pretty much everything on tripod, inside or outdoors, only with primes (I don't own any zooms), mostly MF, >90% ISO 100. I was happy to switch the body for my lenses. I don't do snap shots at all, not even with an iPhone. People: it's creepy to take pictures of conspecific animals. Sports: don't care. I shoot landscapes, environmental portraits of animals & plants, non-"wildlife" plants and animals (slime molds to Nematomorpha), lots of macro. Consider my other camera is an ArcaSwiss 4x5" monorail, which was an eyeopener for my shooting style a decade ago.

My old 5D2 is parked on top of one of my microscopes, the other has a dedicated microscope camera (Zeiss Axiocam HRc). Even the best microscope lenses are strongly diffraction limited, so no point of capturing with large amounts of pixels.

The appearance of the image on the LCD is rather slow (still faster than changing sheet film). It's manageable, but not great. Battery life is rather unimpressive, but with grip and dual batteries, I have not run out of juice in a day of shooting. 128 GB of SD memory is plenty for a day. I still haven't figured out the point of some of the buttons. It think some are AF related, so irrelevant for me.

I see no need for a back-up camera (5D3, 5D4, 1 series). Once the 5DsR mark II comes out, I may use that excuse to have the 5DsR (I) as the back-up option.

So the 5DsR can be an everyday camera, just depends on what you shoot every day.


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## Eldar (Sep 7, 2016)

I use it in combination with a 1DX-II (1DX before that). However, since it is small and handy, I often bring only the 5DSR and I use it for everything. 

Using this camera requires focus and attention. If you want to benefit from the extra resolution, you need more stability than with a lower resolution camera. I normally use 1/2x(focal length in mm)s and I am using breathing techniques as if I am shooting a rifle or bow. In general I am happy with the results. However, if you wave it around like a point and shoot, you will be less happy with the results. I sometimes forget myself and that shows up in the results very fast.

A lot of people are critical to its higher ISO performance. To this I have two things to say. First; people should know what they are looking at when they do a 100% view. You are looking at a much smaller area than you would have on a 5D3, so noise may look more apparent. Too many seem to forget this and give the 5DSR a beating it does not deserve. Second; The images from the 5DSR are very easy to work with from a noise reduction perspective (much easier than a 5DIII). I have posted numerous examples on other threads, where I have applied very simple noise reduction and produced very good results. 

I live in Norway, so my gear must live through all types of weather, from +30C heat/sun, to gales and rain/snow and arctic temperatures below -30C. I know East Wind Photography had a bad experience, but I have not a single bad experience with the weather sealing. My only standard procedure, having been out in the cold with any camera, is to wrap it in a plastic bag prior to bring it indoors, to avoid condensation. It will creep through most weather sealings.


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## jprusa (Sep 7, 2016)

Act444 said:


> Neither
> 
> - I'm finding lens choice is critical with this camera...a 24-105 just won't cut it here. Instead, I plan to use the 100 Macro, 85 1.2, and perhaps the 35 to get the most out of the sensor. The only zoom lenses I'd feel comfortable using on the 5DSR are the 100-400 II and the 70-200 2.8 II - and even then, probably only in good light (outdoors). I haven't had a chance to try the wide-angle zooms on the camera, perhaps the new 16-35 2.8 III could do it justice as well...
> 
> ...


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## Jack Douglas (Sep 7, 2016)

;D ;D How we obsess about gear when we could be out taking photos. Life is passing by.

Jack


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## Act444 (Sep 8, 2016)

Not sure what the 24-70 f4 is even doing on that list. It's a great lens when shooting from a distance, but it completely falls apart when you get any closer than about 8 feet. At close distances, it's easily the softest lens in my collection. It's worst at 50mm, comparable to the 50 STM wide open at 1.8. But I keep it because of its phenomenal performance at 24mm and well-controlled distortion compared to the 24-105. 



> So the 5DsR can be an everyday camera, just depends on what you shoot every day.



Very true, it does depend on what you shoot. As someone who does a little of everything, takes (up to) hundreds of shots per outing and shoots exclusively hand-held, in my case it essentially forces this camera into a specific use...if I need to stop action or shoot moving subjects, shoot in low light, or take everyday snapshots, I'll continue to look to my 5D3 for those scenarios. 5DSR will work great for posed shots w/people (I end up cropping and almost _always_ wish I had more pixels to work with on the 5D3 files...), certain landscapes, still life, and reach-limited scenarios. 

One last thing...



> A lot of people are critical to its higher ISO performance. To this I have two things to say. First; people should know what they are looking at when they do a 100% view. You are looking at a much smaller area than you would have on a 5D3, so noise may look more apparent. Too many seem to forget this and give the 5DSR a beating it does not deserve. Second; The images from the 5DSR are very easy to work with from a noise reduction perspective (much easier than a 5DIII). I have posted numerous examples on other threads, where I have applied very simple noise reduction and produced very good results.



Assuming I have a sharp image to start with, I have noticed that the 5DSR captures enough detail even at higher ISOs to where I can apply additional noise reduction and still keep a respectable level of detail while bringing the noise level down closer to 5D3 levels. Interestingly enough, I saw little difference at 5D3 size, but at 1:1 the shot looked noticeably cleaner (and the image, while softened, was still "good enough" for most intents and purposes). 

Otherwise I agree with Jack, and have some events coming up - both 5D3 and 5DSR will get some work


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## jeffa4444 (Sep 15, 2016)

Having been using the 5DS for a year now and can honestly say I now don't treat it any differently to my 6D or 5D MKIIIs I have access to. 
I mainly shoot landscapes (mainly on a tripod) and portraits (mainly on a monopod) and have been out is wind, rain, spray etc. without any problems. Technique is important but I apply the same technique regardless of camera, the main area of difference is the read time to card especially on long exposures and the grunt needed in editing given the much larger files. On a safari earlier this year it had its plusses and minuses, on the plus side the cropping the camera affords really does count, on the minus side the limited ISO definitely affects low light but overall I'm impressed with the fine detail, the improved color and the lack of banding. 

Lens choice is important the Canon EF 16-35mm f4L IS USM, EF 100mm f2.8L IS USM, EF 100-400mm f4.5-5.6L IS USM II are great with this camera however none of the zooms in the 24-70mm, 24-105mm (waiting for the EF 24-105mm f4L IS USM II) are good enough regardless of what Canon say so sharpness & cleaner images could be better with zooms in this area (high resolution shows up chromatic aberrations very clearly).


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## Eldar (Sep 15, 2016)

jeffa4444 said:


> ... none of the zooms in the 24-70mm, 24-105mm (waiting for the EF 24-105mm f4L IS USM II) are good enough regardless of what Canon say ...


I disagree with this and I believe many others do as well. I have used the 24-70 f2.8L II a lot and it is a fantastic lens in every way and it is certainly sharp enough. And, even though I have not used it myself, I also believe the 24-70 f4L IS would be great. The old 24-105 would benefit from some improvements though.


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## Refurb7 (Sep 15, 2016)

Eldar said:


> jeffa4444 said:
> 
> 
> > ... none of the zooms in the 24-70mm, 24-105mm (waiting for the EF 24-105mm f4L IS USM II) are good enough regardless of what Canon say ...
> ...



The 24-70 f2.8L II is "not good enough"??? It's only the best mid-range zoom ever by any manufacturer.


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## EvvPhotog (Sep 15, 2016)

I sold a 7D Mark II which was my wildlife camera as well as a 6D and now use my 5DSr as my primary body.

I frequently handhold a 500mm f/4 with 1.4x and find my images to be super sharp. Feather and fur details in the animals often astound me to be honest.

I can crop to such a level that I do not miss the crop factor of the 7D. 

So for those that claim you can't use it for everything, I personally disagree but YMMV.


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## Act444 (Sep 15, 2016)

Yeah, essentially you are still getting the "crop factor" in the 5DSR due to the extreme high resolution. It's basically equivalent to a 19.6 MP APS-C sensor, which is almost the same as the 20.2 native MP cropped sensor on the 7D2...therefore, there is virtually no loss of reach. The only drawback would then be the speed.


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## EvvPhotog (Sep 15, 2016)

Agreed! But surprisingly again, I managed some great BIF shots recently. For me personally, I've just had to change how I shoot. With the 7D it was "spray and pray" at that awesome 10 FPS. Now, I just try much harder to push the shutter at the right moments. It has made culling a lot easier too. Yes, I do miss that "perfect" wing position somethings but I still end up with some beautiful images. In the end, that's all I care about.

In other words, I'm a 5DSr fan. ;-)


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## TomF (Sep 18, 2016)

I have a season of 5D Sr shooting under my belt, about 100 days. I mostly shoot High Altitude Aerial Mountain scenes but my first application for the camera was a friends Hockey Game. I still shoot some aerial with my trusty Hasselblad 500 CM with a 50 MP Digi Back. The Old Zeiss primes are still stellar performers and in the same application I will give a slight nod to the Hassy. However the Canon way outperforms in convenience and speed. Digits do matter, the difference between a 21 +- MP camera and a 50 MP one is the distant climbers can be seen to have two legs rather than be stick figures. 

I love the color rendition of the camera and feel it a great everyday shooter for a variety of subjects. Was even great for hockey! 

Great body!


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## Deleted member 91053 (Sep 18, 2016)

I don't know how specialised the 5Dsr is - it looks like a studio/landscape camera to me.

However I bumped into a fellow photographer this afternoon and was curious to see a 5Dsr on the back of his 500 F4 L IS. The reason I was curious was that he had bought his 1D4 from me! Whilst he did miss the frame rate and buffer depth of the 1D4 he felt that his 5Dsr was an excellent wildlife/birding camera and was quite surprised at it's higher ISO performance - which he was not expecting. I have not used a 5Dsr for wildlife (yet) but his experiences were very positive and he takes great images.

Maybe the 5Dsr is not that specialised? Just a thought.


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## Halfrack (Sep 22, 2016)

I shoot pro soccer with it, the focus isn't perfect, but when you're tracking and you pop off a few shots with a lens like the 200-400, it's amazing. 5fps is much better than the 3fps on the 645z, or the 1fps/1.7spf with other high resolution cameras.


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## Maiaibing (Sep 25, 2016)

Act444 said:


> While 50 MP is an outstanding revelation, in my experience, the slowness and added attention to detail demanded of the shooter do not lend well to my everyday style of shooting. That's not what I bought the camera for, but it was still interesting to see how it would hold up. Basically, I confirmed it cannot _replace_ my 5D3, but makes a great companion to it



I find your conclusion curious. There is hardly any imaginable situation where you are holding a 5DS/R and will not get a better result than you would holding a 5DIII in your hands (for stiles). Color, high iso, DR (up to two stops), white balance, anti.flickr, AF, the list of real advantages over the 5DIII just goes on. Oh yes and then comes the MPIX.

5DIII has one small advantage in fps - its advantages ends right there.

I use the 5DS/R as my main camera and the advantage of improved AF alone would make me avoid using a 5DIII instead. Canon users had improved AF on the 5DIII as a top priority - for good reasons. And that's why Canon decided made better AF a top priority for the 5DIV (together with 5DIII users wish for more MPIX and improved DR).

With regard to sharpness I'm not having problems myself. I shoot mostly action shots hand held and mostly with the 300mm f/2.8 IS L II. With 1/800 I'm safe. But 1/640 works very well also. 1/250 blur is an issue, but as you write yourself no more than with the 5DIII.

The Canon camera that does compete with the 5DS/R is the 5DIV. Having considered it carefully my own conclusion is that I would almost never choose the 5DIV over the 5DS/R so for now I'm waiting to see if the 6DII gets a better sensor than the 5DIV just as the 6D got a better sensor than the 5DIII. But maybe the 5DIV could be a better choice for you. 

When it comes to lens choice I only use top L-lenses and Sigma art so probably not the best to ask. However, all your lenses should be better just as your best lenses really shine. Mine do for sure. 5DIV will give you some of the same improvement over the 5DIII, just not as much as the 5DS/R.


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## takesome1 (Sep 25, 2016)

Act444 said:


> Anyone use a 5DS(R) as their MAIN camera (not backup or specialist)?



Yes and it performs fine. AF misses less than 1% of the time. There is ample space to crop. 

Of course I still resort to the 1D IV for speed and weather sealing when it is required. All else is relegated to the the 5Ds R. It is not an action camera. It is not a work horse all weather tank.

I keep hearing the stories about how you have to watch camera shake. The truth is that if you are having camera shake with the 5Ds R you were having it with the 5D III. Maybe you didn't notice it with the 5D III because of its resolution. But it is a skill limit of the user not the camera. What one is really saying is that now they cann't be as sloppy with there technique because the resolution this camera provides exposes their flaws.

With it you trade ISO performance, speed and buffer for resolution. It is on the other end of the spectrum from the 1Dx II. The 5D III and 5D IV are the compromise that fall in the middle.


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## GMCPhotographics (Sep 26, 2016)

To the original poster, yes I agree with you. It's a very specific tool and it's need was pushed by a very vocal niche in photography....the pixel junkies. The 5D3 was and is a very versatile tool. There is very little that it cant do amazingly well. I've shot wild life with it...action...along side photographers with 1DX cameras and our results were great. Sure the 1Dx users get a lot more images to wade through, but with careful and keen timing the 6fps has always delivered for me. The lower resolution of the 1Dx is a bit too low for my likes, I like around 24mp ideally. I've printed A1+ sized images from my 5D3 (landscapes using a stable tripod and good technique) and I've never found them to be lacking...In fact they are very impressive. I've found that the vocal group of MP trolls are usually more concerned about bragging rights in the Canon vs Nikon forum wars than actually about any practical photographic advantage. I think it's amazing that a 50mp 5fps camera even exists. It's the stuff of fantasy 10 years ago. But it's not a photographic Nirvana, it's an ultra high resolution camera with all the benefits and pitfalls which that particular specification brings. 

As to the need for newer lenses for the 5DSR...that may be true wide open, but stopped down, many lesser lenses are more than capable.


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