# Lexar Announces Development of SD Express Memory Cards



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jun 23, 2021)

> *San Jose, USA, June 23, 2021*– Lexar, a leading global brand of memory solutions, is proud to announce the development of SD Express memory cards.
> Lexar SD Express memory cards will leverage the PCI Express® (PCIe®) 4.0 specification delivering a maximum data transfer rate of nearly four gigabytes per second (GB/s). Able to transfer data up three times faster than the fastest UHS-II SD card available today1, SD Express has a theoretical max read speed of up to 985MB/s. These cards will also leverage the NVMe Express™ (NVMe™) protocol and are backward compatible.
> 
> Lexar SD Express memory cards are made to meet the increasing demands of users for moving large amounts of data including 8K video capture and playback, RAW continuous burst mode, 360-degree cameras and videos, and more data-intense applications and workloads.
> Lexar will feature two technologies, SD Express and microSD Express memory cards. SD Express will become available in capacity options up to 512GB, and microSD...



Continue reading...


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## Chaitanya (Jun 23, 2021)

Format war between CFxpress A and SDexpress is going to be interesting one.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jun 23, 2021)

Chaitanya said:


> Format war between CFxpress A and SDexpress is going to be interesting one.


Sony vs the world almost always ends up with the world winning.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Jun 23, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Sony vs the world almost always ends up with the world winning.


That's pretty historically accurate. SD Express seems to make more sense because of MicroSD


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## jam05 (Jun 23, 2021)

Obviously since Canon is on the memory card committee they new of this. More than likely one reason for going with an Express Bus type B slot along with an SD slot. Question would be the bus compatibility and max continuous write speed.


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## goldenhusky (Jun 23, 2021)

This is one of the moment I was waiting for. Hope camera manufactures will adopt SD Express format quicker. At the minimum this will help clear buffer faster. The very interesting part is the backward compatibility. I guess price compared to CFe Type B will be an important factor. Hopefully the SDe is less expensive than CFe Type B.


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## wsmith96 (Jun 23, 2021)

SD will win in the long run. Compute and device manufacturers have already adopted the format. Other formats will hang on for a bit, but eventually SD will resolve the speed issues enough to resolve concerns. Personally, I like the SD format because all of my PC's/Laptops have those card readers - it's convenience. I've been using SD-> compact flash adapters for a while now to keep to one format. Of course, I'm not shooting high speed cameras, so this works for me. YMMV.


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## frjmacias (Jun 23, 2021)

As jam05 previously mentioned, this is perhaps the reason Canon chose to go with separate slots on the R5 and R3. If SDExpress allows for redundant recording at similar speeds, this could satisfy a lot of shooters who wanted equal card slots. Of course, we have yet to see if the R1 will have dual CFExpress slots for max speed.


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## Kiton (Jun 23, 2021)

What is the max write speed of the R5 sd slot?

I use Lexar 2000x cards for full size jpegs and can hit buffer in electronic shutter. 
I never hit buffer with the CFExpress slot.

Can the camera actually make use of a faster card?

At events when I need the silent shutter, I have to turn jpeg size down one notch not to hit buffer.


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## wsmith96 (Jun 23, 2021)

Kiton said:


> What is the max write speed of the R5 sd slot?
> 
> I use Lexar 2000x cards for full size jpegs and can hit buffer in electronic shutter.
> I never hit buffer with the CFExpress slot.
> ...



the R5 isn't in there yet, but this is a good site to benchmark for future use: https://www.cameramemoryspeed.com/ 

-ws


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## jvillain (Jun 23, 2021)

In theory it would be great for video shooters but I have real doubts about the marketing claims. My biggest worry are they will get hot fast and slow down, The bigger package size of CFE provides for better cooling.


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## timmy (Jun 23, 2021)

I all of the sudden feel different about the R3 having both cards now


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## Dragon (Jun 23, 2021)

Chaitanya said:


> Format war between CFxpress A and SDexpress is going to be interesting one.


Eventually CFE B as well, since the SD 8.0 spec includes two lanes. In the end, it is about bus driver power. Right now, a 2 lane SD Express card would probably melt down. Even the much larger CFE B cards get darn hot, but a switch to lower voltage is included in the spec and technology marches on, so eventually we will see 2 lane pcie4 and even picie5 cards. Very fast transfers.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jun 23, 2021)

I was hoping they would finally let SD just die. We have CF Express in all different form factors and no need to keep SD on life support any longer.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jun 23, 2021)

frjmacias said:


> As jam05 previously mentioned, this is perhaps the reason Canon chose to go with separate slots on the R5 and R3. If SDExpress allows for redundant recording at similar speeds, this could satisfy a lot of shooters who wanted equal card slots. Of course, we have yet to see if the R1 will have dual CFExpress slots for max speed.



Dual matching slots is way better in my opinion. I have 4 CF Express B cards and can use them all as main cards or in pairs(on the right camera). Why would I want to have 4 CF Express cards and 2-4 SD(express) cards?


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## Dragon (Jun 23, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> I was hoping they would finally let SD just die. We have CF Express in all different form factors and no need to keep SD on life support any longer.


You were hoping the format with something like 90% market share was going to die? Kind of like the "Canon is dead" line


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## privatebydesign (Jun 23, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> Dual matching slots is way better in my opinion. I have 4 CF Express B cards and can use them all as main cards or in pairs(on the right camera). Why would I want to have 4 CF Express cards and 2-4 SD(express) cards?


I used to feel one type card slot would suit me better, turns out I was wrong for the times I have needed it but I appreciate everybody doesn't use their card slots the same as me. 

I find having a ubiquitous card type can help pass off images to third parties quickly. I shoot RAW to my main card and when possible jpegs to an SD card. If I really need 'backup' there is little I can't save by just having a jpeg but I can give that card to practically anybody and they can upload those files either with or without editing software to social media to raise awareness of their event quickly and easily.


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## jam05 (Jun 23, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> Dual matching slots is way better in my opinion. I have 4 CF Express B cards and can use them all as main cards or in pairs(on the right camera). Why would I want to have 4 CF Express cards and 2-4 SD(express) cards?


With one caveat. There's one tiny step one must include to transfer that CFexpress card B data to a PC, a costly card reader not usually found at your local Best Buy and not all are compatible with the highest transfer rates as many R5 owners discovered last summer. Not necessarry with an SD card. Todays PCs are built with SD card readers. Not very many with Express card B slots. The gazillion Canon 5D owners didnt need to carry CFexpress B card readers. That is Canon's base consumer.


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## Skyscraperfan (Jun 23, 2021)

I loved the Compact Flash form factor. If a card gets any smaller, it is easier to lose it. Why have a large and heavy camera, but use those flimsy SD cards? Just because Notebooks have an SD card reader? Some of those card readers let the card stick out 15mm or more. That makes it easy to accidentally break it.


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## Kiton (Jun 23, 2021)

wsmith96 said:


> the R5 isn't in there yet, but this is a good site to benchmark for future use: https://www.cameramemoryspeed.com/
> 
> -ws


It is a shame to site Camera memory Speed slowly die off, it has not been update in a long long time, I assume it will just disappear one day.


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## Aussie shooter (Jun 23, 2021)

Kiton said:


> What is the max write speed of the R5 sd slot?
> 
> I use Lexar 2000x cards for full size jpegs and can hit buffer in electronic shutter.
> I never hit buffer with the CFExpress slot.
> ...


Questiin. How many shots do you need at those events?


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jun 23, 2021)

Dragon said:


> You were hoping the format with something like 90% market share was going to die? Kind of like the "Canon is dead" line


SD Express has 0% market share. And SD is an obsolete format. Why replace SD with SD Express when we already have CF Express A&B established in a much more sturdy forms. You will be buying £250 SD Express cards or £250 CF Express cards, why let a format that should have ran its course years ago continue? Especially when consumer cameras are a dying breed themselves.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jun 23, 2021)

frjmacias said:


> As jam05 previously mentioned, this is perhaps the reason Canon chose to go with separate slots on the R5 and R3. If SDExpress allows for redundant recording at similar speeds, this could satisfy a lot of shooters who wanted equal card slots. Of course, we have yet to see if the R1 will have dual CFExpress slots for max speed.



SD Express on the R5 at least will read/write at UHS I speeds max so you are better off with your existing UHS II cards when you need backups. It is unlikely the R3 will have SD Express, if they wanted to use those lanes I can't imagine them wasting them on SD Express with no cards and existing cards getting cut to 80-100 MB/s.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jun 23, 2021)

jam05 said:


> With one caveat. There's one tiny step one must include to transfer that CFexpress card B data to a PC, a costly card reader not usually found at your local Best Buy and not all are compatible with the highest transfer rates as many R5 owners discovered last summer. Not necessarry with an SD card. Todays PCs are built with SD card readers. Not very many with Express card B slots. The gazillion Canon 5D owners didnt need to carry CFexpress B card readers. That is Canon's base consumer.



Built in SD readers will do SD Express at 80-100 MB/s max at the moment. Built in SD Express readers are as unlikely as built in CF Express readers... that's PCIe lanes that could become another TB3 port. And a TB3 CF Express reader is only £100, hardly breaking the bank.


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## SteveC (Jun 23, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> I was hoping they would finally let SD just die. We have CF Express in all different form factors and no need to keep SD on life support any longer.


SD is nowhere _near_ dying. It's used in a lot of places outside of high end photography circles.

When I first became interested in photography a few years ago I was actually surprised to discover anyone still used Compact Flash. It dates back to 1994 and is bulky and has those pins you can bend if you look at them crosseyed.


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## Kiton (Jun 23, 2021)

Aussie shooter said:


> Questiin. How many shots do you need at those events?


I do not have much bad to say about the R5, but this topic.....

It isn't about how many I need so much as the fact Canon has not given us frame rate choices while in silent.

A murderer or street gang member is walking down the hallway at the court house, I want silent shutter, I do not want 20 frames a second. But my hands are tied. So I throw 90% in the trash, but I don't want the click click of the shutter in those types of cases, and many others. I wish Canon would update the firmware and do like my old A9, I had 3 frame rate choices while in silent shutter.


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## Juangrande (Jun 23, 2021)

Kiton said:


> What is the max write speed of the R5 sd slot?
> 
> I use Lexar 2000x cards for full size jpegs and can hit buffer in electronic shutter.
> I never hit buffer with the CFExpress slot.
> ...


What kind of events are you shooting where you feel the need to lean that hard on the shutter for so long. ? I used to shoot weddings and only took my camera off single shot for the bouquet and garter toss. Corporate events no need to take it off single shot. Unless by “event” you mean something like a track and field event.


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## David - Sydney (Jun 23, 2021)

frjmacias said:


> As jam05 previously mentioned, this is perhaps the reason Canon chose to go with separate slots on the R5 and R3. If SDExpress allows for redundant recording at similar speeds, this could satisfy a lot of shooters who wanted equal card slots. Of course, we have yet to see if the R1 will have dual CFExpress slots for max speed.


The SD Express specifications have been out since June 2018 so about 4 years until the first commercial card and controller will be available.
R5/R3 couldn't possibly have them built in. The only choice for the R5 was CFe type B for the 8k raw @ ~1800MB/s and SD USH-II for the rest. 
Dual CFe cards would have been an option and there has been very similar pricing for both. The CFe slot produces considerable heat even when not recording so dual cards might be a bigger heat problem.
For the R3, a combined SD/CFe Type A slot similar to the A1 or SD USH-II plus CFe type A/B for the R3.... but if it isn't capable of 8K raw ie <45mp then CFe type B is not needed or do what the A1 does and not provide a raw option ie 10 bit 4:2:0 XAVC @ 400Mb/s and CFe type B isn't needed.


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## David - Sydney (Jun 23, 2021)

jam05 said:


> With one caveat. There's one tiny step one must include to transfer that CFexpress card B data to a PC, a costly card reader not usually found at your local Best Buy and not all are compatible with the highest transfer rates as many R5 owners discovered last summer. Not necessarry with an SD card. Todays PCs are built with SD card readers. Not very many with Express card B slots. The gazillion Canon 5D owners didnt need to carry CFexpress B card readers. That is Canon's base consumer.


Yes, the CFe type B card reader is expensive. If memory serves me correctly, you can still off load via the USB-C connector though.
Upgrading tje USB-C to a TB3 controller would be a good move.
A generation of MBP users didn't have a SD card slot but rumoured to return in the next iteration which will be nice to have again. No PCs to my knowledge have a CFe type B card slot so dongles/docks are the only option besides the USB-C cable


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## David - Sydney (Jun 23, 2021)

Juangrande said:


> What kind of events are you shooting where you feel the need to lean that hard on the shutter for so long. ? I used to shoot weddings and only took my camera off single shot for the bouquet and garter toss. Corporate events no need to take it off single shot. Unless by “event” you mean something like a track and field event.


eshutter has minimum 20fps and action such as indoor karate events can generate a lot of shots in a short period.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jun 24, 2021)

Dragon said:


> Eventually CFE B as well, since the 8.0 spec includes two lanes. In the end, it is about bus driver power. Right now, a 2 lane SD Express card would probably melt down. Even the much larger CFE B cards get darn hot, but a switch to lower voltage is included in the spec and technology marches on, so eventually we will see 2 lane pcie4 and even picie5 cards. Very fast transfers.


Just like SD, CF Express Type B is a standard form factor:
Cfast, XQD, and CFExpress.
CF Express Type A is pointless.
I am not sure the point of CF Express C but I will reserve judgment.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jun 24, 2021)

SteveC said:


> SD is nowhere _near_ dying. It's used in a lot of places outside of high end photography circles.
> 
> When I first became interested in photography a few years ago I was actually surprised to discover anyone still used Compact Flash. It dates back to 1994 and is bulky and has those pins you can bend if you look at them crosseyed.


I never realized SD FUD was a thing.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jun 24, 2021)

Kiton said:


> I wish Canon would update the firmware and do like my old A9, I had 3 frame rate choices while in silent shutter.


Don't wish.
Make a formal request to Canon unless you have a genie we don't know about.


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## David - Sydney (Jun 24, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Just like SD, CF Express Type B is a standard form factor:
> Cfast, XQD, and CFExpress.
> CF Express Type A is pointless.
> I am not sure the point of CF Express C but I will reserve judgment.


Not sure about pointless...CFe Type A is smaller than Type B and has combined slot option with SD card... a significant space saving over CFe type B. The only difference is speed 1 vs 2GB/s and if you don't need the speed...
CFe Type A are only made by Sony and are more expensive and slower than Type B and only used on one camera so not so useful. They may go the path of Memory Stick cards.
I am not sure if CFe card/slot generate as much heat as Type B card/slot either.

Do you mean that Cfast (36.4 x 42.8 x 3.6mm) is the same physical size as CFe Type B (38.5 x 29.8 x 3.8mm)? QXD is the same size as CFe Type B cards.

CFe Type C may never be made available commercially unless we start using 16k raw uncompressed bit rates with 4GB/s speeds needed.


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## Kiton (Jun 24, 2021)

Juangrande said:


> What kind of events are you shooting where you feel the need to lean that hard on the shutter for so long. ? I used to shoot weddings and only took my camera off single shot for the bouquet and garter toss. Corporate events no need to take it off single shot. Unless by “event” you mean something like a track and field event.



Certain moments of an NHL hockey game. NOT all of the game, shoot outs, sudden death over time.
Riots, I don't want the click sound but want more than the low frame rate, but not 20 fps. The click sound can result in a brick to the head or the camera.
Certain moments at Tennis.
Formula One, the checkered flag and a few other spots here and there only (no F1 here in 2021 due to Covid, maybe next year)
Courthouse suspect/accused appearances. We cant shoot in the court room, just the hallways.
Funerals, again, I want a quick silent mode, but not 20 frames a second.
Candle lit vigils. We have a huge crisis breaking here with the residential school mass graves being discovered one by one.
Classical and Jazz Concerts. I would LOVE single frame in silent mode, no such beast on the R5. Maddening!
etc etc

I have not shot a track and field event yet with the R5, but I would be rather sure I would be fine with mechanical shutter in that scenario.


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## Aussie shooter (Jun 24, 2021)

Kiton said:


> I do not have much bad to say about the R5, but this topic.....
> 
> It isn't about how many I need so much as the fact Canon has not given us frame rate choices while in silent.
> 
> A murderer or street gang member is walking down the hallway at the court house, I want silent shutter, I do not want 20 frames a second. But my hands are tied. So I throw 90% in the trash, but I don't want the click click of the shutter in those types of cases, and many others. I wish Canon would update the firmware and do like my old A9, I had 3 frame rate choices while in silent shutter.


You can squeeze the shutter for a half second you know. I do it all the time with my R6 in ES for wildlife. Just anticipate the moment


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## Dragon (Jun 24, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> SD Express has 0% market share. And SD is an obsolete format. Why replace SD with SD Express when we already have CF Express A&B established in a much more sturdy forms. You will be buying £250 SD Express cards or £250 CF Express cards, why let a format that should have ran its course years ago continue? Especially when consumer cameras are a dying breed themselves.


Sorry, but SD cards have always been cheaper than any version of CF cards for equivalent performance. That is what volume does. SD express has 0% market share only because it has just been introduced (because it had to wait for driver efficiency to keep the power down). CFE type B is used on a few cameras and type A only on a couple of Sony Cameras. That is not compelling market share. single lane SD express cards will be cheaper than CFE type A and when the power envelope supports them, dual lane SD express cards will be cheaper than CFE type B cards. Mark this comment and check back in two years. You will see.


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## Dragon (Jun 24, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Just like SD, CF Express Type B is a standard form factor:
> Cfast, XQD, and CFExpress.
> CF Express Type A is pointless.
> I am not sure the point of CF Express C but I will reserve judgment.


Agreed. I think CFE B will stick around much like CF cards did, but SD Express is likely to take a lot of market share (and will be cheaper). The first to implement PCIE 5 may well make a difference in the long term outcome as that will provide enough I/O BW that memory chips will not catch up for a fair while.


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## David - Sydney (Jun 24, 2021)

Dragon said:


> Sorry, but SD cards have always been cheaper than any version of CF cards for equivalent performance. That is what volume does. SD express has 0% market share only because it has just been introduced (because it had to wait for driver efficiency to keep the power down). CFE type B is used on a few cameras and type A only on a couple of Sony Cameras. That is not compelling market share. single lane SD express cards will be cheaper than CFE type A and when the power envelope supports them, dual lane SD express cards will be cheaper than CFE type B cards. Mark this comment and check back in two years. You will see.


CFast and CF cards were more expensive than the same capacity SD cards but were no match in speed/performance.

CFe Type B card spec came out in 2017 and there was already healthy competition from a number of OEMs in 2021 with multiple cameras using them. SD USH-II cards were approximately the same cost as CFe cards when I bought them last year but seem to have dropped a bit in price but are topping out at ~300MB/s vs 1400MB/s CFe Type B write speeds.

4 year introduction time for SD Express cards and no camera using them yet. Max speed from Lexar appears to be 400MB/s write speed ie 30% more than USH-II speeds today but no match for CFe Type B. There needs to be volume and unless there are cameras released or alternative uses then I can't see where the volume/price reduction will come from. 

People are still buying cheap SD class 1 cards and have difficulties understanding what cards are required for 4k/30 video. The speed/naming classes are a mess with SD. Ubiquitous but very confusing.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jun 24, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> Not sure about pointless...CFe Type A is smaller than Type B and has combined slot option with SD card.


I get why you might not be sure, but what I mean by pointless is that I don't really see much of a point in a combined CF Express Type-A/SD slot over simply having an SD Express slot. No one was making CF Express Type A cards at the time and Sony chose to make the drives and the media when they could have done the same thing for SD Express.



David - Sydney said:


> Do you mean that Cfast (36.4 x 42.8 x 3.6mm) is the same physical size as CFe Type B (38.5 x 29.8 x 3.8mm)? QXD is the same size as CFe Type B cards.


By form factor, I mean around the same size. CF Express Type A and SD are not the same sizes either.



David - Sydney said:


> People are still buying cheap SD class 1 cards and have difficulties understanding what cards are required for 4k/30 video. The speed/naming classes are a mess with SD. Ubiquitous but very confusing.


I could not agree more.
There are now like 7 different compatibility markings on SD cards and yet the only reliable way is to check the camera's recommended media list.


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## Antono Refa (Jun 24, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> SD Express has 0% market share. And SD is an obsolete format. Why replace SD with SD Express when we already have CF Express A&B established in a much more sturdy forms. You will be buying £250 SD Express cards or £250 CF Express cards, why let a format that should have ran its course years ago continue? Especially when consumer cameras are a dying breed themselves.


CF Express A is hardly established. Currently, there are no cheap CFExpress B cards, which deters me from buying an R5. Sure, current CFExpress cards have better performance, but that doesn't matter if I'm shooting portraits, panoramas, or time lapses.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jun 24, 2021)

Antono Refa said:


> CF Express A is hardly established. Currently, there are no cheap CFExpress B cards, which deters me from buying an R5. Sure, current CFExpress cards have better performance, but that doesn't matter if I'm shooting portraits, panoramas, or time lapses.


There are cheap CF Express Type-B cards from Pergear but I do not have the courage to trust my images to them.
I am not one to cheap out on media.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jun 24, 2021)

Antono Refa said:


> CF Express A is hardly established. Currently, there are no cheap CFExpress B cards, which deters me from buying an R5. Sure, current CFExpress cards have better performance, but that doesn't matter if I'm shooting portraits, panoramas, or time lapses.


A 128 GB CF Express B card is £250 and a 128 GB SD UHS-II card is £250. SD Express cards will not be £20 like UHS-I cards, you wont save anything. And eventually will need these expensive cards as cameras need them.


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## Antono Refa (Jun 24, 2021)

Seems to me SD is dying because the standard is progressing quickly, but nobody is adopting it. Anyone seen UHS-III cards? SDUC? Devices that support A2? Bueller? Bueller? Ah, yes, the market has just caught up with UHS-II, and those cards would underperform in SD Express slots. I don't see Canon releasing an R6mkII with two SD Express slots.

Lexar is announcing a PCIe 3.1x1 SD 7.0 card, right after the new 8.0 standard was released with support for PCIe 4.0.


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## Antono Refa (Jun 24, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> A 128 GB CF Express B card is £250 and a 128 GB SD UHS-II card is £250. SD Express cards will not be £20 like UHS-I cards, you wont save anything. And eventually will need these expensive cards as cameras need them.


Just checked B&H, there's a 2 pack of 128GB Lexar cards, UHS-II, V60, 1667x, for $71.99. There's a 256GB card by angelbird (UHS-II & v60 as well) for $109.

"as cameras need them" for what? I've never short 4K video, and rarely shoot FHD*. One of the reasons I'm considering upgrading a 5DmkIV to an R6 is because the later has 2 SD slots, which allow me to have cheap backup cards.

* Yes, I know *some* photographers shoot 4K and 8K, and need performant cards. But *some don't*, and they'd appreciate if you didn't force them to spend money on fast cards they don't need.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jun 24, 2021)

Antono Refa said:


> Just checked B&H, there's a 2 pack of 128GB Lexar cards, UHS-II, V60, 1667x, for $71.99. There's a 256GB card by angelbird (UHS-II & v60 as well) for $109.
> 
> "as cameras need them" for what? I've never short 4K video, and rarely shoot FHD*. One of the reasons I'm considering upgrading a 5DmkIV to an R6 is because the later has 2 SD slots, which allow me to have cheap backup cards.
> 
> * Yes, I know *some* photographers shoot 4K and 8K, and need performant cards. But *some don't*, and they'd appreciate if you didn't force them to spend money on fast cards they don't need.


https://www.parkcameras.com/shop/sony-sdxc-tough-series-128gb-300mbs_7057613x £214 300 MB/s read and 299 MB/s write.
https://www.parkcameras.com/shop/sony-cfexpress-tough-series-128gb-1700mb_7057616c £259 1700 MB/s read and 1480 MB/s write.

Edit(2): That Lextor card might as well be UHS-I, it is 250 MB/s read and up to 120 MB/s write. Something had to give to get it at that price, and that was write speed. Speaking off if you want a cheep CF Express card, ones with 1000 MB/s read and 500 MB/s write are coming to the market for the under £100 crowd: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B095BFDCGR/

Yes the SD card is a wee bit cheeper (depending on time of month and alignment of the moon). But the CF Express card is more durable and faster. There is so little between them. You might not ever need the speed of CF Express. But having the whole industry on that standard will help you get prices down. SD Express will not be any cheeper and it is certainly still going to be a flimsy thing for consumer cameras where it doesn't matter if their is some corruption or the card snaps in half.

Edit:

On backward compatibility. SD Express falls back to UHS-I speeds on UHS-I and UHS-II readers/cameras and likewise UHS-II cards run at UHS-I speed on SD Express slots. The pins to make SD Express work replace the UHS-II pins with the original pins left on for backwards compatibility. So all your fast (comparatively to UHS-I) UHS-II SD cards slow down to 60-100 MB/s in SD Express cameras and the SD Express cards slow to a crawl on card readers. Since these will do into consumer cameras, users will likely not be affected as they'll just transfer wirelessly or plug the camera right into the machine if they have a SD Express card.


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## Antono Refa (Jun 24, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> https://www.parkcameras.com/shop/sony-sdxc-tough-series-128gb-300mbs_7057613x £214 300 MB/s read and 299 MB/s write.
> https://www.parkcameras.com/shop/sony-cfexpress-tough-series-128gb-1700mb_7057616c £259 1700 MB/s read and 1480 MB/s write.


Your point being...?


Codebunny said:


> Edit(2): That Lextor card might as well be UHS-I, it is 250 MB/s read and up to 120 MB/s write. Something had to give to get it at that price, and that was write speed. Speaking off if you want a cheep CF Express card, ones with 1000 MB/s read and 500 MB/s write are coming to the market for the under £100 crowd: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B095BFDCGR/


This is a new brand, pardon me for not trusting it.


Codebunny said:


> Yes the SD card is a wee bit cheaper (depending on time of month and alignment of the moon).


Depending on speed, it might be a whole lot cheaper. E.g. the SanDisk Extreme Pro V30 512GB SDXC card is priced $125.95, about the same as the pergear CFExpress card. Its slower, but again - for those who don't need fast, its nice to have cheaper.


Codebunny said:


> But the CF Express card is more durable and faster.


I never had durability issues with SD.


Codebunny said:


> There is so little between them. You might not ever need the speed of CF Express. But having the whole industry on that standard will help you get prices down.


How nice of you to force me to buy expensive now so I could buy cheap later, when I can buy cheap right now.


Codebunny said:


> SD Express will not be any cheaper


But the SD slot will be compatible with slower, cheaper SD cards.


Codebunny said:


> and it is certainly still going to be a flimsy thing for consumer cameras where it doesn't matter if their is some corruption or the card snaps in half.


Never had an SD card snap in half. Had the pins in my 5Dmk3 bend.


Codebunny said:


> On backward compatibility. SD Express falls back to UHS-I speeds on UHS-I and UHS-II readers/cameras and likewise UHS-II cards run at UHS-I speed on SD Express slots.


So? I can shoot portraits, panoramas, and time lapses with UHS-I speeds.


Codebunny said:


> The pins to make SD Express work replace the UHS-II pins with the original pins left on for backwards compatibility. So all your fast (comparatively to UHS-I) UHS-II SD cards slow down to 60-100 MB/s in SD Express cameras and the SD Express cards slow to a crawl on card readers.


CFExpress will force me to buy new cards anyway, so where's the advantage?


Codebunny said:


> Since these will do into consumer cameras, users will likely not be affected as they'll just transfer wirelessly or plug the camera right into the machine if they have a SD Express card.


Huh? Wirelessly to where? You want me to carry a laptop? Because its small & cheap?


----------



## Deleted member 381342 (Jun 24, 2021)

Antono Refa said:


> Your point being...?


SD cards are bloody expensive for what they are.



Antono Refa said:


> This is a new brand, pardon me for not trusting it.


Lextor is also a new brand, it is not the Lextor we used to buy.



Antono Refa said:


> Depending on speed, it might be a whole lot cheaper. E.g. the SanDisk Extreme Pro V30 512GB SDXC card is priced $125.95, about the same as the pergear CFExpress card. Its slower, but again - for those who don't need fast, its nice to have cheaper.


Slower less reliable cards for consumers are cheeper. But we aren't talking about SD cards, we are talking about SD Express and that if you have to move to new cards anyway, lets just default to the better format.



Antono Refa said:


> I never had durability issues with SD.


While I can also say the same about all manner of things, that doesn't change that SD cards do fail more often than other cards when the user sample size is greater than one.



Antono Refa said:


> How nice of you to force me to buy expensive now so I could buy cheap later, when I can buy cheap right now.


You aren't being forced. You can choose to use an older camera that still uses CF or SD and continue to use your old cards. But let's make the better format take over. SD Express is bigger than CF Express A and only slightly smaller than CF Express B. It is slower, and has all the durability issues of SD. SD Express never taking off will not stop your existing cameras from working. 



Antono Refa said:


> But the SD slot will be compatible with slower, cheaper SD cards.


And the SD slot can remain on cheeper cameras or be a dual CF Express A slot.



Antono Refa said:


> Never had an SD card snap in half. Had the pins in my 5Dmk3 bend.


CF Express does not use pins like CF. And again, you are a sample size of one.



Antono Refa said:


> So? I can shoot portraits, panoramas, and time lapses with UHS-I speeds.


Thats great, but will that pan out when the cameras sold are 100 MP? 16 bit RAW? This isn't about what you can do today, it is about the next decade and hopefully not being stuck with SD cards.



Antono Refa said:


> CFExpress will force me to buy new cards anyway, so where's the advantage?


SD Express will force you to buy new cards that are slower and less durable than CF Express. The could be cheeper or more expensive. Or as they are just now you get a worse product for the same money.



Antono Refa said:


> Huh? Wirelessly to where? You want me to carry a laptop? Because its small & cheap?


SD cards are primarily used in consumer devices so that card once in is never coming out so when you get home you can shove it next to your desktop and 'download' the photos from the camera. I am surprised built in storage hasn't killed SD already.


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## wsmith96 (Jun 24, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> SD cards are bloody expensive for what they are.
> 
> 
> Lextor is also a new brand, it is not the Lextor we used to buy.
> ...


You are very passionate about this topic.... It's just a memory card. They are expensive when they are first introduced. A year later, they are pennies. This conversation is heading in the direction of betamax vs VHS. Yes, betamax is technically better, but VHS was the clear winner because it was good enough. In your situation, use the CF express card as it provides the performance you are demanding. Others may not demand that performance and for them, SD cards are good enough.


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## wsmith96 (Jun 24, 2021)

Kiton said:


> It is a shame to site Camera memory Speed slowly die off, it has not been update in a long long time, I assume it will just disappear one day.


Yes, I was being hopeful as the information on that site is valuable. It may indeed be dying.


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## Antono Refa (Jun 24, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> SD cards are bloody expensive for what they are.


For what *you think* they are.


Codebunny said:


> Lextor is also a new brand, it is not the Lextor we used to buy.


I've never heard of Lextor. If you mean Lexar, there are plenty of other brands making SD cards cheaper than CFExpress.


Codebunny said:


> Slower less reliable cards for consumers are cheeper.


I'll assume you mean cheaper, and that you have proof that, for the same $/MB, CFExpress is more reliable (not faster, more reliable) than SD, other than throwing adjectives like flimsy.


Codebunny said:


> But we aren't talking about SD cards, we are talking about SD Express and that if you have to move to new cards anyway, lets just default to the better format.


You're telling me what I'm talking about, and how I define better?


Codebunny said:


> While I can also say the same about all manner of things, that doesn't change that SD cards do fail more often than other cards when the user sample size is greater than one.


And your source showing SD cards fail more often than CFExpress cards is...?


Codebunny said:


> You aren't being forced. You can choose to use an older camera that still uses CF or SD and continue to use your old cards.


I never said I am, and there new cameras, such as the R6, that use SD cards.


Codebunny said:


> But let's make the better format take over. SD Express is bigger than CF Express A and only slightly smaller than CF Express B. It is slower, and has all the durability issues of SD.


And, again, your source for the durability issues is...?


Codebunny said:


> SD Express never taking off will not stop your existing cameras from working.


Never said it did.


Codebunny said:


> CF Express does not use pins like CF. And again, you are a sample size of one.


You think I'm the only one who had CD pins bent? Oh, please.


Codebunny said:


> Thats great, but will that pan out when the cameras sold are 100 MP? 16 bit RAW?


1. You think 100MP will become mainstream. I disagree, e.g. Canon's new R6 has 20MP, and the 6DmkII 26MP.

2. Even with 100MP sensor, current SD speeds will still be sufficient for many shooting styles.



Codebunny said:


> This isn't about what you can do today, it is about the next decade and hopefully not being stuck with SD cards.


Its about people would do in the next decade, and what would be the cheapest solution for them. Plenty of photographers, e.g. studio & nature, would do just fine with current SD cards' speed.


Codebunny said:


> SD Express will force you to buy new cards that are slower and less durable than CF Express.


Again, your source is for SD cards being less durable than CFExpress at all, and to the point of giving less bang for the buck, is...?


Codebunny said:


> The could be cheeper or more expensive. Or as they are just now you get a worse product for the same money.


Again, support your claim.


Codebunny said:


> SD cards are primarily used in consumer devices


I don't understand how you would interpret that so it would actually make sense.


Codebunny said:


> so that card once in is never coming out so when you get home you can shove it next to your desktop and 'download' the photos from the camera. I am surprised built in storage hasn't killed SD already.


Oh, I can, its just that I don't know anyone who does. Also, every laptop I bought in the past decade had a microSD slot. Apparently the manufacturers missed something you do.


----------



## Kiton (Jun 24, 2021)

Antono Refa said:


> Oh, I can, its just that I don't know anyone who does. Also, every laptop I bought in the past decade had a microSD slot. Apparently the manufacturers missed something you do.


Major piss of with Apple, they did away with the SD card slot. Personally I feel that was a stupid move! I guess they feel the majority of "soft" users hard wire or use wifi? I think many of us daily users would love to have the SD slot back! Fortuantly ProGrade makes a CFexpress and SD card reader, so I can ingest both cards with one reader, thereby only using one USB slot.


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## FrenchFry (Jun 24, 2021)

wsmith96 said:


> They are expensive when they are first introduced. A year later, they are pennies.



Someone should let the retailers know. I was looking at pricing for a 256GB CFexpress B card this weekend and it was over $350, even though these cards are over a year old. 35,000 is a lot of pennies!

I think it takes more like 3-5 years for prices to meaningfully fall beyond special sales like Black Friday.

I am really liking CFExpress B so far and very much looking forward to the days where pricing is below $1/GB. The more manufacturers that adopt this format, the quicker that day will come.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jun 24, 2021)

Kiton said:


> Major piss of with Apple, they did away with the SD card slot. Personally I feel that was a stupid move! I guess they feel the majority of "soft" users hard wire or use wifi? I think many of us daily users would love to have the SD slot back! Fortuantly ProGrade makes a CFexpress and SD card reader, so I can ingest both cards with one reader, thereby only using one USB slot.



SD slots made sense in their consumer laptops but not in the pro machines. Now if they want to put in a modern card reader, that is PCIe lanes that could go to another TB3 port or space for a bigger battery. And when they did have it the read speed was terrible compared to an external reader and they only had SD when at the time pro cameras were using CF only or CF with a crippled SD backup slot. I don't know about you, but I have all the TB3 ports in use at times and often want more. 

I haven't seen a computer with built in SD for over a decade, though plenty still have USB-A, keeping that port alive and taking away much of the incentive to move on. For all it costs to buy a USB-B or USB-B 3.0 to USB-C cable.


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## Dragon (Jun 24, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> CFast and CF cards were more expensive than the same capacity SD cards but were no match in speed/performance.
> 
> CFe Type B card spec came out in 2017 and there was already healthy competition from a number of OEMs in 2021 with multiple cameras using them. SD USH-II cards were approximately the same cost as CFe cards when I bought them last year but seem to have dropped a bit in price but are topping out at ~300MB/s vs 1400MB/s CFe Type B write speeds.
> 
> ...


To your last point, even CFE cards are confusing. I had to do a fair bit of shopping to find a CFE card for the R5 that was actually fast enough. Most of the lower capacity cards are not, but you really have to dig to find the actual specs. Memory card speeds are kind of like lithium battery ampere hours. We lost 'truth in advertising" long ago.


----------



## wsmith96 (Jun 24, 2021)

FrenchFry said:


> Someone should let the retailers know. I was looking at pricing for a 256GB CFexpress B card this weekend and it was over $350, even though these cards are over a year old. 35,000 is a lot of pennies!
> 
> I think it takes more like 3-5 years for prices to meaningfully fall beyond special sales like Black Friday.
> 
> I am really liking CFExpress B so far and very much looking forward to the days where pricing is below $1/GB. The more manufacturers that adopt this format, the quicker that day will come.


Hmm. I took a look at some pricing history on a lexar card and for the size you listed it's gone from $400 down to ~$280 in a year. I think that the global chip shortage is driving costs back up. A lot of companies dealing with supply shortages. 

for reference: https://www.cpricewatch.com/product/07333/Lexar-256GB-Professional-CFexpress-Type-B-price.html








SanDisk 256GB Extreme PRO CFexpress Card Type B







www.cpricewatch.com





Even the san disk hit $300. Generally when they go that low they don't come back up that high, but they did. But again to my argument, the graphs show about a 25% decline in price over one year with both cards coming back up. I say this is a global supply chain issue right now and that your cards will go down again. Let's hope they go back down soon!


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## Kiton (Jun 24, 2021)

Antono Refa said:


> Its about people would do in the next decade, and what would be the cheapest solution for them. Plenty of photographers, e.g. studio & nature, would do just fine with current SD cards' speed.


Agreed, if I could tame the frame rate of silent mode a little, jpegs to the SD card would be fine. but at full rate, it is just a little too much data for the current SD card config.


Codebunny said:


> SD slots made sense in their consumer laptops but not in the pro machines. Now if they want to put in a modern card reader, that is PCIe lanes that could go to another TB3 port or space for a bigger battery. And when they did have it the read speed was terrible compared to an external reader and they only had SD when at the time pro cameras were using CF only or CF with a crippled SD backup slot. I don't know about you, but I have all the TB3 ports in use at times and often want more.
> 
> I haven't seen a computer with built in SD for over a decade, though plenty still have USB-A, keeping that port alive and taking away much of the incentive to move on. For all it costs to buy a USB-B or USB-B 3.0 to USB-C cable.


Agreed, but it was nice when you are at a rink, or editing and sending pictures from the side of a boxing ring etc etc not to have a cable that can get pulled out by mistake on deadline. 98% of the time, I am using all 4 USB-C ports on my macbook pro. But there are odd times when I wish I could just slide an SD card in to the machine and work quickly to hammer out a few pictures and get back to shooting.

I use Photo Mechanic to ingest and bulk caption and re-name all the files, so often the the speed is not the biggest concern as I ingest incrementally as the night goes on, but having the cable pulled out by mistake or having the reader dangling sucks.

I guess this is really just a case of wanting everything


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## SteveC (Jun 24, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> SD Express will force you to buy new cards that are slower and less durable than CF Express.



Uh, no it won't...you will be able to use your existing SD cards there.

Buying a camera with a CF Express slot (because Canon took your advice) WILL force you to buy new media even if regular SD speeds are satisfactory, if you have been using SD all along.

You are in the position of advocating forcing everyone else to upgrade to what you like (and never mind the fact that the reasons you give for liking it have largely been debunked by other replies). I generally agree with the things you say but this time, I really hope you don't get what you want, here.


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## David - Sydney (Jun 24, 2021)

Dragon said:


> To your last point, even CFE cards are confusing. I had to do a fair bit of shopping to find a CFE card for the R5 that was actually fast enough. Most of the lower capacity cards are not, but you really have to dig to find the actual specs. Memory card speeds are kind of like lithium battery ampere hours. We lost 'truth in advertising" long ago.


Fair point. The OEMs of the CFe Type B cards haven't been clear about the write speeds. Canon did provide a list of supported cards but Sandisk wasn't included for instance. Even looking up spec sheets didn't always show the sustained write speed. No issues with Sony Tough though.

That said, even the slowest Type B card looks to be faster recording speed than the Lexar SD Express @ 400MB/s


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## David - Sydney (Jun 25, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> I get why you might not be sure, but what I mean by pointless is that I don't really see much of a point in a combined CF Express Type-A/SD slot over simply having an SD Express slot. No one was making CF Express Type A cards at the time and Sony chose to make the drives and the media when they could have done the same thing for SD Express.


Sony didn't have a choice but to use the dual SD USH-II/Type A slot on the A1. They needed to support 8K recording which UHS-II can't do and their body is small so dual CFe Type B wasn't an option. Can you imagine the situation where the A1 was future proof by including CFe Type A but there was no cards available to support their 8k recording? Sony had to make them because no one is.

CFe Type B spec was launched 2Q17 => multiple OEMs and multiple cameras using them in 2020
CFe Type A spec was launched 1Q19 => 1 OEM and 1 camera using them in 2021
SD UHS-II spec was launch in 2014 => Wikipedia says that >50 cameras is now using it in 2021 so it must be true 
SD UHS-III spec was launched 1Q17 => no support from OEM or users
SD Express spec 7 was launched 2Q18 => had hacking issues
SD Express spec 8 was launched 2Q20 => extra row of pins. 2021 = 1 OEM and no camera using them. Backward compatible to UHS-I
I would suggest that SD Express is late to the party and could be rendered obsolete just as UHS-III has been
Anecdotally, A1 users are not buying CFe Type A cards yet due to their current cost, capacity limitations and availability relying instead on USH-II cards

I get the SD card backward compatibility benefits but that is the only benefit that I can see. It takes a few years to get manufacturers to make and distribute new cards after the spec is released. CFe Type B and UHS-II has been successful but SD Express brings a limited incremental performance (based on the Lexar announcement) and still slow compared to CFe B


EOS 4 Life said:


> By form factor, I mean around the same size. CF Express Type A and SD are not the same sizes either.


True but they can be combined into one slot which the A1 needed. XQD and CFe Type B cards also use the same physical slot.


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## David - Sydney (Jun 25, 2021)

SteveC said:


> Uh, no it won't...you will be able to use your existing SD cards there.
> 
> Buying a camera with a CF Express slot (because Canon took your advice) WILL force you to buy new media even if regular SD speeds are satisfactory, if you have been using SD all along.
> 
> You are in the position of advocating forcing everyone else to upgrade to what you like (and never mind the fact that the reasons you give for liking it have largely been debunked by other replies). I generally agree with the things you say but this time, I really hope you don't get what you want, here.


My existing SD cards for my R5 would have hit buffer limits pretty quickly. I didn't even understand the V ratings when I bought them for my 5Div so got the wrong ones back then. The R5 forced me to buy new UHS-II and Type B cards to make sure the functionality worked. Yes, I could still buy a low spec SD card and take single shots if necessary but dual slots gives you redundancy anyway in case of failure.

The new cards were a significant cost and I wanted to make sure they would work for a long time. For my 5Diii I had to buy CF cards so it is not unusual to force users to buy new media.
In hindsight, I wish that Canon used dual CFe Cards in the R5. The space is there, the cost and availability at the time was the same and it is better to have dual media IMHO.


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## SteveC (Jun 25, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> The new cards were a significant cost and I wanted to make sure they would work for a long time. For my 5Diii I had to buy CF cards so it is not unusual to force users to buy new media.
> In hindsight, I wish that Canon used dual CFe Cards in the R5. The space is there, the cost and availability at the time was the same and it is better to have dual media IMHO.



I'm glad they didn't. I'd have been forced to buy very expensive cards designed for a group of features I have no interest in using (basically ones that can inelegantly be lumped under "super duper video"), in order not to be stuck with a 20MP sensor by stepping down to the R6.

I really wish the R6 had been 30-35 MP.

If nothing else you've just convinced me the people who gripe about wanting the same camera without having to pay for the video _might actually have a point_--at least, in a hypothetical universe where the R5 had two CFE slots. Sure, leaving out the video probably wouldn't lower the cost of the camera, but if putting it IN had meant the guy buying the camera has to buy the damn cards _and a card reader_ because the camera _wouldn't_ take an SD card, that's an added expense, albeit one external to the camera itself. Fortunately, the camera _does_ take an SD card so the gripers working off a bad premise (that removing the video would significantly cheapen the camera itself) are still just gripers working off a bad premise.

If you had your way, anyone wanting to take high res stills would have no choice but to buy very expensive cards designed for a video data rate. Thankfully, Canon knew better.


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## David - Sydney (Jun 25, 2021)

SteveC said:


> I'm glad they didn't. I'd have been forced to buy very expensive cards designed for a group of features I have no interest in using (basically ones that can inelegantly be lumped under "super duper video"), in order not to be stuck with a 20MP sensor by stepping down to the R6.


Remember that USH-II cards and CFe Type B cards were the same price last year and UHS-II cards were needed to handle the fps @ 45mp. Buying the R5 12 months after release gives better options for saving money. I did pre-order but have no regrets even if the price was somewhat painful at the time



SteveC said:


> If nothing else you've just convinced me the people who gripe about wanting the same camera without having to pay for the video _might actually have a point_--at least, in a hypothetical universe where the R5 had two CFE slots. Sure, leaving out the video probably wouldn't lower the cost of the camera, but if putting it IN had meant the guy buying the camera has to buy the damn cards _and a card reader_ because the camera _wouldn't_ take an SD card, that's an added expense, albeit one external to the camera itself. Fortunately, the camera _does_ take an SD card so the gripers working off a bad premise (that removing the video would significantly cheapen the camera itself) are still just gripers working off a bad premise.


Yes, the CFe Type B card reader was an additional expense for me. I now know that I can just use the USB-C connector (or even wifi) to offload from the camera though so it isn't mandatory. I don't have a UHS-II card reader though and just have slow transfers via a UHS-I slot. It is good to be backward compatible in this case


SteveC said:


> If you had your way, anyone wanting to take high res stills would have no choice but to buy very expensive cards designed for a video data rate. Thankfully, Canon knew better.


Again, 12fps @45mp (or 20fps eshutter) still needs the very expensive UHS-II cards. There wasn't a cost difference at the time.

SD Express will be expensive for years to come. Whether they sell in volume and be cheaper than the equivalent capacity and performance of the CFe card is a good question. Whether people need it is another good question but 10 years ago it would have been hard to imagine a camera having 12fps @45mps or even 4k/120 or 8k in a small body


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## Dragon (Jun 25, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> Sony didn't have a choice but to use the dual SD USH-II/Type A slot on the A1. They needed to support 8K recording which UHS-II can't do and their body is small so dual CFe Type B wasn't an option. Can you imagine the situation where the A1 was future proof by including CFe Type A but there was no cards available to support their 8k recording? Sony had to make them because no one is.
> 
> CFe Type B spec was launched 2Q17 => multiple OEMs and multiple cameras using them in 2020
> CFe Type A spec was launched 1Q19 => 1 OEM and 1 camera using them in 2021
> ...


I think the reason you haven't seen SD express until now is technology related. CFE B cards get quite hot in spite of their much larger size. Sony had to put contact cooling into the A1 to keep the CFE A cards from overheating. SD cards have always been very forgiving of the the environment they are used in, so making an SD Express card that required a contact head sink would have been heresy. I suspect the latest generation of PCIE driver chips has lowered the power enough to avoid the extra complexity, so now we see SD Express on the near horizon. CFE cards will also take advantage of the march of technology, but in the end, the CFE A cards will likely be at a price disadvantage (particularly if Sony continues to be the only one making them). My bet is that CFE B cards are here to stay and CFE A cards will bite the dust along with all the other Sony-only storage formats (Betamax anyone?). CFE B and SD Express will also thrash the proprietary professional video cards from Sony and Panasonic because they have always been ludicrously overpriced and that is not likely to change.


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## David - Sydney (Jun 25, 2021)

Dragon said:


> I think the reason you haven't seen SD express until now is technology related. CFE B cards get quite hot in spite of their much larger size. Sony had to put contact cooling into the A1 to keep the CFE A cards from overheating. SD cards have always been very forgiving of the the environment they are used in, so making an SD Express card that required a contact head sink would have been heresy. I suspect the latest generation of PCIE driver chips has lowered the power enough to avoid the extra complexity, so now we see SD Express on the near horizon. CFE cards will also take advantage of the march of technology, but in the end, the CFE A cards will likely be at a price disadvantage (particularly if Sony continues to be the only one making them). My bet is that CFE B cards are here to stay and CFE A cards will bite the dust along with all the other Sony-only storage formats (Betamax anyone?). CFE B and SD Express will also thrash the proprietary professional video cards from Sony and Panasonic because they have always been ludicrously overpriced and that is not likely to change.


I agree. The SD Express spec has only recently been released and the CFe B card/slot gets really hot. This is clearly due to the data speeds but they also seem to generate heat with just the card installed and ready to write which is a definite issue.
My guess is that CFe B cards and UHS-II will be the ones to stay - at least for the next few years. Sony Type A cards will go the way of the Memory Stick. There just isn't demand for additional formats/cameras needing increased speed that can't be addressed today. 
The benefits for SD Express is that they are smaller than CFe and perhaps the lower voltage will mean lower heat generation but I can't see them replacing CFe B cards IMHO.

Who knows in 5 years time though. Maybe future cameras will use HDMI 2.1 for external recording of 8k raw and avoid internal video recording due to heat generation or only compressed/lower quality video... especially as the price of high capacity cards is really dear. 20 minutes of 8k raw is 512gb CFe Card @ ~USD500 and you would need to change batteries when the card is changed. Raw light is better @ 20minutes on 256GB


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## EOS 4 Life (Jun 25, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> Sony didn't have a choice but to use the dual SD USH-II/Type A slot on the A1


The SD Express option was already around for three years.
Sony was the first to make CFExpress Type A slots and cards.
They could have been the first to make SD Express slots and cards.
They may very well have a good reason to choose CF Express Type-A but they did have a choice.


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## VegasCameraGuy (Jun 25, 2021)

The only issue I see with cameramemoryspeed.com is it doesn't appear that they've posted anything since 2018, 3 years ago?


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## VegasCameraGuy (Jun 25, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> I used to feel one type card slot would suit me better, turns out I was wrong for the times I have needed it but I appreciate everybody doesn't use their card slots the same as me.
> 
> I find having a ubiquitous card type can help pass off images to third parties quickly. I shoot RAW to my main card and when possible jpegs to an SD card. If I really need 'backup' there is little I can't save by just having a jpeg but I can give that card to practically anybody and they can upload those files either with or without editing software to social media to raise awareness of their event quickly and easily.


I agree and also use a CFx for RAWs and the SD for JPGs. Personally, I would rather have two CFx cards and hopefully, the camera would be fast enough to write two RAWs at a time.


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## privatebydesign (Jun 25, 2021)

VegasCameraGuy said:


> I agree and also use a CFx for RAWs and the SD for JPGs. Personally, I would rather have two CFx cards and hopefully, the camera would be fast enough to write two RAWs at a time.


I’ve just never felt the need for dual RAW or using two cards slots as ‘backup’, I never use that as a strategy. So for me, despite the fact I thought I’d prefer two of the same slot, the truth is my actual use is different, I use the different card slots for different uses. The ubiquity of SD cards suits fast on site jpeg delivery, the speed of a ‘better’ bigger card suits RAW capture. For me.


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## Sporgon (Jun 25, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> I’ve just never felt the need for dual RAW or using two cards slots as ‘backup’, I never use that as a strategy. So for me, despite the fact I thought I’d prefer two of the same slot, the truth is my actual use is different, I use the different card slots for different uses. The ubiquity of SD cards suits fast on site jpeg delivery, the speed of a ‘better’ bigger card suits RAW capture. For me.


And me.


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## privatebydesign (Jun 25, 2021)

Sporgon said:


> And me.


It’s funny to me how often Canon get it right , despite my own opinion! They come out with what I need rather than what I think I want.


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## SteveC (Jun 25, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> Remember that USH-II cards and CFe Type B cards were the same price last year and UHS-II cards were needed to handle the fps @ 45mp. Buying the R5 12 months after release gives better options for saving money. I did pre-order but have no regrets even if the price was somewhat painful at the time


Yes....and no.

I could buy a 128Gb SD card of that type, and yes, it was expensive per GB.

I couldn't buy a compatible CF-E card of that size (i.e., the limited number of ones that were claimed to be compatible, that weren't made by S*ny), the minimum seemed to be half a terabyte. So it was four times as much money to play because of the table minimum.

(If I ever were to fill a half terabyte card, my problems would have just begun.)


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## David - Sydney (Jun 26, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> The SD Express option was already around for three years.
> Sony was the first to make CFExpress Type A slots and cards.
> They could have been the first to make SD Express slots and cards.
> They may very well have a good reason to choose CF Express Type-A but they did have a choice.


Not sure they had a choice. With no sd express cards available this year, they would needed to use uhs-I cards as sd express cards are not backward compatible with uhs-ii catds. Sony could have made sd express cards I guess but decided that cfe cards made more sense to them


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## EOS 4 Life (Jun 26, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> Not sure they had a choice. With no sd express cards available this year, they would needed to use uhs-I cards as sd express cards are not backward compatible with uhs-ii catds. Sony could have made sd express cards I guess but decided that cfe cards made more sense to them


There were no CF Express Type-A cards available either until Sony made them.
I am not saying that I am sure that Sony could have developed SD Express in the same time frame.
I am just raising the question of why they chose CF Express Type-A.
A combined drive took a lot of ingenuity but using SD Express seems the logical choice


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## David - Sydney (Jun 26, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> There were no CF Express Type-A cards available either until Sony made them.
> I am not saying that I am sure that Sony could have developed SD Express in the same time frame.
> I am just raising the question of why they chose CF Express Type-A.
> A combined drive took a lot of ingenuity but using SD Express seems the logical choice


Sony always likes to back a memory format winner.


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