# Canon EOS-1D X Review



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jun 27, 2012)

```
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<strong>A first review


</strong>Martin Bailey, a Tokyo based photographer has posted a pretty extensive review of the Canon EOS-1D X. You can read or listen to his podcast as he talks about his initial impressions of Canon’s new flagship.</p>
<p><strong>From the review</strong></p>
<blockquote><p>OK, so these are the main points that I’ve come across so far. I can live with the resolution for the frame-rate and high ISO performance trade-off . I was expecting a larger leap forward in the AI Servo tracking performance, but I’m very happy with the accuracy of the AI Servo focusing when it locks on. For my cormorant tests I was working in very high contrast conditions, and with flowing water in the background, which has always been very tricky. Considering this, it performed OK, though I had hoped for a little more.</p></blockquote>
<p><strong><a href="http://blog.martinbaileyphotography.com/2012/06/27/podcast-341-canon-eos-1d-x-digital-slr-review/" target="_blank">Read The Full Review</a></strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


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## preppyak (Jun 27, 2012)

dilbert said:


> And he's saying 1 stop improvement in noise for higher ISO. If that's true for raw and not just JPEG then that's quite significant as that advantage.


Well, just looking at those flower photos, ISO 12800 on the 1DX looks like ISO800/1600 on any of Canon's APS-C cameras (60D, 7D, etc), which is kind of crazy. Like he mentions, its very useable to 12,800, the 25,600 would probably be where I'd set my Max ISO setting, but you could even use the 51,200 and de-noise and probably be fine. It's kind of crazy how well it handles low light.

I agree about the new sensor design, I don't think an slight MP drop is enough to account for that


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## pedro (Jun 27, 2012)

preppyak said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > And he's saying 1 stop improvement in noise for higher ISO. If that's true for raw and not just JPEG then that's quite significant as that advantage.
> ...



Great review and highly appreciated comparison with the 5D3 high ISOs. As I the 1Dx is way out of my economic reach, as an enthusiast amateur photographer I will have plenty of camera with the 5D3 covering any type of photography I am aimed at. I really consider it as kind of a mini 1Dx at almost half of the price. Made the day for me, though. Suirely will go for a 5D3 within a year or so. Saving up for a nice WA. Cheers, Pedro


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## sweetcancer (Jun 27, 2012)

they probably designed the sensor from the bottom up a few times, judging from how long it took them to finally get it released  all that pressure from listening to all the complains about 5d mark III sensor...


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## Cropper (Jun 27, 2012)

Nice high ISO performance. Really impressive !

It's pretty lame though that after all the publicity made by Canon that the new extenders were fantastic on the new superteles, they still don´t have a body that AF at F8. 
Really disapointing, particularly when the competition offers this feature on much lower grade bodies.

Nice camera, but not for me. Bring on the high resolution version ! ASAP !!!


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## iso79 (Jun 27, 2012)

People complained about the 5D Mark III sensor? :


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## Drizzt321 (Jun 27, 2012)

iso79 said:


> People complained about the 5D Mark III sensor? :



Yea, it's horrible. It's an incremental improvement over the previous 5d2 sensor. We don't get magical ability to use ISO 5 million that let's us see in the dark with hardly any noise that's easily correctable by LR4. It's hardly usable, don't find it any better than the 5d2 sensor. I mean, I can use images up to ISO 12800 for web size pretty easily. Geesh, it's horrible!


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## awinphoto (Jun 27, 2012)

Drizzt321 said:


> iso79 said:
> 
> 
> > People complained about the 5D Mark III sensor? :
> ...



Lest we forget that it barely adds any additional MP or DR... all that extra workflow just to get my images to pop, I was SO looking forwards to that but NOOOOOOOO canon didn't give that to me, haha.


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## jaduffy007 (Jun 27, 2012)

Drizzt321 said:


> iso79 said:
> 
> 
> > People complained about the 5D Mark III sensor? :
> ...



Guys, I don't recall reading any posts where the 5d3 sensor was called "horrible" or even "bad". This includes the madness of dpreview forums. What there's been a lot of is, disappointment in the lack of improvement vs 5d2, such as banding, etc This is an important distinction that seems "lost" on Canon fanboys. "lack of improvement" does not equate to "bad" or "horrible". The intensity of comments from those objectively pointing out this lack of improvement (in contrast to the D800) increased dramatically as they encountered fanboys unwilling to acknowledge these facts. Usually the fanboys would mis-characterize the "critical" comments by using hyperbole such as "So you think the sensor sucks, go away troll!" or give the impression the poster had insane expectations such as "magical ability to use ISO 5 million" or that the poster had written the sensor was "horrible". Ahem.

Another example: Lloyd Chambers said he found himself "bored" in regard to the 5d3 images and Canon fanboys went ballistic saying the "5D3 images are not boring!!". Well, that's not what Lloyd said. It was the lack of improvement that led to him having a lack of enthusiasm. Lack of enthusiasm does not equal "bad" or "horrible".

This, all in contrast to the simple truth that the 5d3 sensor is not a significant improvement over the 5d2 and after waiting 4 (f'ing) years for the update, that's disappointing or as Lloyd put it, "boring".


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## pedro (Jun 27, 2012)

Knowing not so much about sensor tech improvements, maybe one can't have it all in body almost half the price of the other. Or did former 1D sensors automatically trickle down into the 5D units? Some of you sure know how that was managed before. Anyway, upgrading from a 30D this will be a huge improvement for me. But I can understand former 5Dii users who have hoped for more...Cheers, Pedro


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## Drizzt321 (Jun 27, 2012)

jaduffy007 said:


> Drizzt321 said:
> 
> 
> > iso79 said:
> ...



Ok, well, next time maybe I need to add <sarcasm> tags more often. I guess I wasn't over the top enough.

For me personally, the 5d3 sensor is a decent upgrade, although not phenomenal. I actually do find it to be a pretty big improvement over the 5d2 at high ISOs, especially when shooting for web size images. In terms of banding, I personally see some decent improvement over the 5d2, but it still needs a good bit of work.


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## EchoLocation (Jun 27, 2012)

jaduffy007 said:


> Drizzt321 said:
> 
> 
> > iso79 said:
> ...


I agree. I don't think that anyone thinks the 5DIII is a bad camera. But for the price, it better be mind bogglingly good, and I don't think anyone would say that is the case. I would pay 2500 in a heartbeat for the 5DIII, but at over 3000 it is just not going to happen. The 5DIII is actually just what I expected it would be, except I expected Canon to beat Nikon's price by 500 bucks, instead it's the other way around.
So, yes, for 3500 dollars the camera is a bit underwhelming(boring)


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## iso79 (Jun 27, 2012)

The only thing Nikon beat Canon with the D800 is the megapixels and price (not enough for me and many photographers to switch sides). Everything else, the Mark III does much better.


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## wockawocka (Jun 27, 2012)

The 5D3 and 1Dx are meant for professionals earning money from Photography. They aren't targetted at those who want a new toy to play with and only have so much saved.

The 5D3 and 1Dx will last me 4 years, costing about $40 per week over 4 years.

Seems reasonable to me just not to those photographing the inside of a lens cap.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 27, 2012)

wockawocka said:


> The 5D3 and 1Dx are meant for professionals earning money from Photography. They aren't targetted at those who want a new toy to play with and only have so much saved.



The 5d3 clearly also is is a premium amateur camera body for people wanting to shoot their grandchildren running around or just waning to take low-noise pictures of their cat.

The 1dx is completely different, as the review says it's all about build quality, af tracking and fps. You don't need 14fps of your cat, and the 1dx's weight and size are not in the "fun" category anymore.


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## robin (Jun 27, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> wockawocka said:
> 
> 
> > The 1dx is completely different, as the review says it's all about build quality, af tracking and fps. You don't need 14fps of your cat, and the 1dx's weight and size are not in the "fun" category anymore.
> ...


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## wockawocka (Jun 27, 2012)

...and that premium comes at a price.


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## Razor2012 (Jun 27, 2012)

wockawocka said:


> The 5D3 and 1Dx are meant for professionals earning money from Photography. They aren't targetted at those who want a new toy to play with and only have so much saved.
> 
> The 5D3 and 1Dx will last me 4 years, costing about $40 per week over 4 years.
> 
> Seems reasonable to me just not to those photographing the inside of a lens cap.



Then I guess Canon got lucky because there seems to be a fair amount of non-pros who purchased the 5DIII also.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 27, 2012)

wockawocka said:


> ...and that premium comes at a price.



... expanding on that, I see many pros (like in: shoot for a living and having to balance the books) didn't upgrade to the 5d3, at least for the time being. They have 5d2 cameras and have learned to use them, and unless you shoot sports there aren't killer features on the 5d3 that would give your product the edge since the sensor is so similar. And if you shoot sports and are in the biz, you'd get the 1d4 or 1dx - so where does this leave the 5d3?


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## arcanej (Jun 27, 2012)

As a devoted amateur photographer who purchased the 5D3, I have to disagree with Marsu42. There are times I wish I had a higher frame rate when photographing my cat. There are a few times when I missed a cute moment.


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## hyles (Jun 27, 2012)

I Think that IQ of 5dII was allready very good, mutch complayn where about AF, and other hardware stuff like viefinder not 100%. Iq has been improved, maybe somone wanted a biger improovment, but since IQ was what has been addresed has been the hardware. Developing a new AF sistem does cost, build quality is mutch better. There are a lot of improvement over the old model. The bigger IQ will arrive with the 5DIII.
Diego


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## Brymills (Jun 27, 2012)

arcanej said:


> As a devoted amateur photographer who purchased the 5D3, I have to disagree with Marsu42. There are times I wish I had a higher frame rate when photographing my cat. There are a few times when I missed a cute moment.



How long do you spend photographing your cat???


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## Drizzt321 (Jun 27, 2012)

Brymills said:


> arcanej said:
> 
> 
> > As a devoted amateur photographer who purchased the 5D3, I have to disagree with Marsu42. There are times I wish I had a higher frame rate when photographing my cat. There are a few times when I missed a cute moment.
> ...



Where do you think I Can Haz Cheezburger gets all of it's cat pics from?


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## jaduffy007 (Jun 27, 2012)

Drizzt321 said:


> jaduffy007 said:
> 
> 
> > Drizzt321 said:
> ...



Drizz, I got the sarcasm crystal clear 

I'm giving you a hard time because so often such sarcasm or some form of snarkiness is used to dismiss the comments of those of us who expected more from the 5D3 in comparison to the arguably ground breaking 5D2. This has been argued to death by now, but given the zero increase in DR and resolution, *I* expected either a dramatic improvement in high iso performance or a $2,500 price tag. We received neither.


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## SandyP (Jun 27, 2012)

For anyone using the 5D Mark III in any serious shooting, and especially for their profession, I know very few people who would complain about the price. It's fine. The camera is such a big improvement over anything before it. Well worth the money, well worth it indeed.

The sensor isn't nearly as similar as people are describing. This is probably the most ridiculous forum for photographers out there, reading through this place is sometimes so hilarious. The camera appeals to so many aspects of photography that it never did or could have really catered to before. Haha. 

The 1D-X is a mighty piece of gear, for what the 5D3 is, I have absolutely no need for the 1D-X, and I personally know a good handful of people who feel the same way. The 1D-X was announced officially before the 5D3 ever was, and A lot of us were saying "there's my next camera", but the second the 5D3 was official, that all changed.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 27, 2012)

SandyP said:


> The sensor isn't nearly as similar as people are describing..



You're correct, there have been sensor changes from the 5d2 to the 5d3 - a little bit more mp with the tradeoff of a little decrease in dr and some loss of sharpness due to the stronger aa filter  ... ok, and to be fair somewhat less banding and a nicer nose pattern.

But all these things are minor, the observation that matters to me personally is that I cannot or can hardly tell 5d2 & 5d3 apart in raw samples up to iso3200. Spoken the other way around, of course the 5d3 is the camera to get if money is no issue.



jaduffy007 said:


> This has been argued to death by now, but given the zero increase in DR and resolution, *I* expected either a dramatic improvement in high iso performance or a $2,500 price tag. We received neither.



Since even the 1dx threads arrive at the 5d3 sensor again it's safe to say the 1dx is a winner because there's hardly anything to complain about in comparison to what you'd expect from a real flagship camera body.


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## jaduffy007 (Jun 27, 2012)

iso79 said:


> The only thing Nikon beat Canon with the D800 is the megapixels and price (not enough for me and many photographers to switch sides). Everything else, the Mark III does much better.



Actually the D800 not only has a lot more resolution but the quality of those pixels are better, clean shadows, etc. Medium format digital dynamic range too. Qualities I have paid 10's of 1000's of dollars for, now in a $3000 body. In contrast canon is milking its loyal base.

"Everything else much better", such as? I don't know about you, but resolution, DR are pretty much top of my list of priorities. I'm going to resist rehashing this tired old argument in detail, but I can't think of anything the 5d3 does "much better". And just to be clear, I'm not saying the 5d3 is a bad camera, just over priced relative to competing products.

I'm not suggesting it's worth switching sides over ...yet...but that point is within sight. I dont think it serves us to embrace an "ignorance is bliss" mentality, pretending the advantages of the D800 are not highly desirable. 8)


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## Drizzt321 (Jun 27, 2012)

jaduffy007 said:


> Drizzt321 said:
> 
> 
> > jaduffy007 said:
> ...



Ah, ok. I was being a little snarky (mostly sarcastic) playing off of iso79's comment. 

I definitely understand where you're coming from, and most people were expecting some decent improvements in other areas of sensor performance. Definitely not ground breaking compared to the 5d2 when it first came out, but we could view it kinda like Intel's tick-tock cycle. This is the tick, smaller improvements but lots of refinement. The next one released in 3-4 years? I'm hoping it'll be mighty interesting.


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## jaduffy007 (Jun 27, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> wockawocka said:
> 
> 
> > ...and that premium comes at a price.
> ...



I agree 100%. For commercial photogs the much improved AF would be nice but not remotely worth the price. If you're a pro sports shooter, you never considered the 5d series to begin with. A refurbed 5d2 is one of the best values on the planet right now.


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## jaduffy007 (Jun 27, 2012)

wockawocka said:


> The 5D3 and 1Dx are meant for professionals earning money from Photography. They aren't targetted at those who want a new toy to play with and only have so much saved.
> 
> The 5D3 and 1Dx will last me 4 years, costing about $40 per week over 4 years.
> 
> Seems reasonable to me just not to those photographing the inside of a lens cap.



I guess I just don't "get it". "Lens cap", hmm. I'm very predominantly a studio shooter ie, portraiture, fashion, beauty. Been trying out a D800. Just did an editorial Marie Claire shoot that included some "low key" lighting. Being able to shoot at high IQ, low iso and lift those shadows as I wished without needing NR that smears details like peanut butter is extremely valuable. My subject's skin would have turned to blurry mush! Images reminded me a great deal of my shoots with a rented Phase One IQ140 ($30k kit). I can think how vastly more important this ability would be to landscape shooters as well as concert and other low light shooters. Shooting at high iso cannot compete in terms of IQ.


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## D_Rochat (Jun 27, 2012)

EchoLocation said:


> jaduffy007 said:
> 
> 
> > Drizzt321 said:
> ...



So.... How 'bout that 1d X?


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## Tayvin (Jun 27, 2012)

jaduffy007 said:


> wockawocka said:
> 
> 
> > The 5D3 and 1Dx are meant for professionals earning money from Photography. They aren't targetted at those who want a new toy to play with and only have so much saved.
> ...



jaduffy, will you put up a link to some of the images you've shot with the D800? I'm not trying to put you on the spot or anything; I just want to see some images that were properly lit with this camera. I'm still waiting on my 800e. Thanks!

And back to the topic at hand - I thought the 1ds III was Canon's flagship DSLR???


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## Bombsight (Jun 27, 2012)

I cant understand why so many 5DMK3 owners are saying ... "I'm glad", "It does", "It doesn't", "Cant do", "Can do", blah, blah, blah ... ON ALL OF THE 1DX THREADS! ??? :

WE GET IT! ... you payed less for less of a camera!

Be happy & go use it.

Quit spending time counting your $$$ in front of those who spent more for what they wanted!!!!!!

*Jeeeeez us!* :


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## jaduffy007 (Jun 27, 2012)

Tayvin said:


> jaduffy007 said:
> 
> 
> > wockawocka said:
> ...



Well Tayvin, as massively outdated as my website is, and i mean seriously neglected! ...just last night I did put up a few new shots from the shoot I was referring to in my post. Website link below. D800 images: The opening image of the site, the B&W of Jaimie Alexander (Thor, etc). Then I believe there are a few shots of Jaimie in the beauty and editorial sections. All shot with the d800 with the 85 f1.8G, Zeiss 100 f2 or 
200 f2. Any shots of Jaimie are with D800.

The images are retouched, but with the exception of Jaimie's back in the B&W, you would be shocked how little retouching was required. Seriously. She has phenomenal skin and we had a great MUA, Jeffrey Paul.

Whether they are "properly lit" is a matter of opinion.  And please keep in mind, you're looking at 500kb jpegs!

jamesallenduffy.com

If you have any further questions, you can email me via the website info.


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## jaduffy007 (Jun 27, 2012)

D_Rochat said:


> EchoLocation said:
> 
> 
> > jaduffy007 said:
> ...



I apologize! I"ll shut up now.


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## gary samples (Jun 27, 2012)

there just trying to make them selfs feel better for not hav'n our not willing to put out the money !!

can hardy wait for 1dx come to papa .


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## briansquibb (Jun 27, 2012)

jaduffy007 said:


> iso79 said:
> 
> 
> > The only thing Nikon beat Canon with the D800 is the megapixels and price (not enough for me and many photographers to switch sides). Everything else, the Mark III does much better.
> ...



I understood that the noise advantage of the D800 disappeared by ISO 800? and similarly the DR?

Both cameras are very good I am sure - but surely they are so far apart in their potential user base that real comparison between is down to personal preference.

The 1DX should be IMO be compared with the D4. 

I will be interested in reviews of the 1DX as it is the planned replacement for my 7D


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## Philco (Jun 27, 2012)

I'm really pleased to see how well the 5DIII compares to the Flagship model 1DX. Everyone is complaining about the cost of a the 5DIII, (with a grip and sales tax here in CA came to $4200) but considering how close it got me to a 1DX w/out the added expense for features I won't utilize, I'm happy; especially now that I've enjoyed how well the 5DIII handles on a couple of jobs. I couldn't make a business case to upgrade, as the pair of 5DII's I'd used for a while had been getting the job done, and it's not as if my clients will offer to pay me one penny more to use a newer body (let alone a 1DX). All in all, I would think it would be tougher to holding a recent 1DsIII and figure out what to do....

Supposedly the advantage to the new bodies is full functionality of the new 600 EX RT's, though in my experience I haven't noticed a practical difference between using them off-camera with the master on the 5DII or III. 

I agree that the 5DIII is engineered for photographers that make money with their gear, but no one said they aren't also marketed to all photographers. I've never met anyone with a 1 series that didn't make money with it. I think you are more likely to see well-heeled hobbyists sporting a Leica if they're shopping for a status symbol as much as a camera.


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## Philco (Jun 27, 2012)

Bombsight said:


> I cant understand why so many 5DMK3 owners are saying ... "I'm glad", "It does", "It doesn't", "Cant do", "Can do", blah, blah, blah ... ON ALL OF THE 1DX THREADS! ??? :
> 
> WE GET IT! ... you payed less for less of a camera!
> 
> ...



The review of the 1DX includes direct comparisons between both cameras. That's WHY.


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## briansquibb (Jun 27, 2012)

Philco said:


> I've never met anyone with a 1 series that didn't make money with it.



Nice to meet you Philco, I am a hobbyist with several 1 series and I dont make any money from them


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## jaduffy007 (Jun 27, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> jaduffy007 said:
> 
> 
> > iso79 said:
> ...



While true to a very significant degree, those same advantages disappear even faster and more severely on the Phase One $48,000 IQ180 kit. 

You're right but the d800 doesn't fall off a performance cliff until iso6400, especially true with downsizing. So unless someone shoots predominantly at 3200 and higher, why sacrifice the significant advantages from iso100 to 800??
Topaz Denoise and downsizing to 16mp creates miracles. 

I really want to stop high jacking this thread, but I didn't start it !!!


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## Philco (Jun 27, 2012)

That's great Brian. Since I've met and worked with a lot of other full time photographers, it makes sense I wouldn't know anyone that would pony up for a 1 series outside of that circle. The guy who used to valet in at my building had a 1DII a couple of years ago, but he was a working pro overseas before coming here, so he still counts. In my point I was responding to the idea that photographers would buy a 1 series to shoot their cats (sarcastically) and I agree that it's not a hobbyist camera. The people I've met who approached buying a camera to tote around like buying a watch, bought Leicas. I'm sure their cat photos are very nice.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 27, 2012)

dilbert said:


> And he's saying 1 stop improvement in noise for higher ISO. If that's true for raw and not just JPEG then that's quite significant as that advantage. Likely this will at least pair it with the D4 in performance.
> 
> This isn't the difference 4MP less makes, this is a new sensor design.



He is saying RAW. It actually looks like a solid 2/3 stop better than 5D3 at high ISO, insane! That has got to beat the D4 and make the 1DX be the best lowlight DSLR in history (and I'm not honestly sure it could be ever beaten, at least not with a standard CMOS sensor + Bayer CFA).


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 27, 2012)

dilbert said:


> pedro said:
> 
> 
> > Great review and highly appreciated comparison with the 5D3 high ISOs. As I the 1Dx is way out of my economic reach, as an enthusiast amateur photographer I will have plenty of camera with the 5D3 covering any type of photography I am aimed at. I really consider it as kind of a mini 1Dx at almost half of the price. Made the day for me, though. Suirely will go for a 5D3 within a year or so. Saving up for a nice WA. Cheers, Pedro
> ...



One guy with Canon connections said months ago that we'd soon enough realize that Canon held back their new sensor tech for the 1DX so they could re-use the old lines once more to raise margin on the 5D3 since they felt that all the body upgrades were enough this time to not force their hand at the 100% new sensor tech.

Of course we still have no clue how it does at low ISO. I still tend to bet the D800 will cream it there. Perhaps, if we are lucky, it can match the D4 ISO100 DR and banding though???


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## briansquibb (Jun 27, 2012)

Philco said:


> That's great Brian. Did you buy a 1DX yet?



I dont want to be an early user so I am happy to wait. I have a 1D4 so its not urgent. 

My 1DS3 is limited in low light so I thought the 1DX might do duties there as well.

The 1DS3 will stay top dog for iso 50-200 shots (which are about 50% of my photos) until there is a clear improvement coming along. I had 5D2 and did side by side testing and the 5D2 was clearly worse than the 1DS3.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 27, 2012)

iso79 said:


> The only thing Nikon beat Canon with the D800 is the megapixels and price (not enough for me and many photographers to switch sides). Everything else, the Mark III does much better.



It's not even so much the MP as the quality of the pixels, much better at ISO100-800 on the D800.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 27, 2012)

robin said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > The 1dx is completely different, as the review says it's all about build quality, af tracking and fps. You don't need 14fps of your cat, and the 1dx's weight and size are not in the "fun" category anymore.
> ...



hah


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## jaduffy007 (Jun 27, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> Philco said:
> 
> 
> > That's great Brian. Did you buy a 1DX yet?
> ...



I've always loved the 1ds3 files. I think it speaks to a camera with a specialty vs jack of all trades.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 27, 2012)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> One guy with Canon connections said months ago that we'd soon enough realize that Canon held back their new sensor tech for the 1DX so they could re-use the old lines once more to raise margin on the 5D3 since they felt that all the body upgrades were enough this time to not force their hand at the 100% new sensor tech.



That sounds plausible and would have worked if it wasn't for the competition. Lets hope that Nikon forces Canon's hand now to release a 5d4 sooner than 4 years from now :-o ... imagine what Intel products would be like without AMD.

Did the guy predict what would be the next body to have a real sensor upgrade after the 1dx? The 70d? The high-mp eos?


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## jaduffy007 (Jun 27, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > One guy with Canon connections said months ago that we'd soon enough realize that Canon held back their new sensor tech for the 1DX so they could re-use the old lines once more to raise margin on the 5D3 since they felt that all the body upgrades were enough this time to not force their hand at the 100% new sensor tech.
> ...




I agree and this bodes well for the 1D X.


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## neuroanatomist (Jun 27, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> Philco said:
> 
> 
> > I've never met anyone with a 1 series that didn't make money with it.
> ...



Hello from another hobbyist who'll be getting a 1D X (preordered from B&H the first day possible).


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## gmrza (Jun 27, 2012)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> One guy with Canon connections said months ago that we'd soon enough realize that Canon held back their new sensor tech for the 1DX so they could re-use the old lines once more to raise margin on the 5D3 since they felt that all the body upgrades were enough this time to not force their hand at the 100% new sensor tech.
> 
> Of course we still have no clue how it does at low ISO. I still tend to bet the D800 will cream it there. Perhaps, if we are lucky, it can match the D4 ISO100 DR and banding though???



This explanation sounds entirely plausible. Most 5DII users were not screaming for better sensor performance - they wanted better AF, better environmental sealing, dual card slots, etc. Holding back new sensor tech for the 5DIV will make much more commercial sense for Canon. Those people who are using the 5DII professionally especially will mostly not think twice upgrading to the 5DIII. If Canon put newer sensor tech into the 5DIII, it would be harder, most probably, to sell the 5DIV. That is probably just commercial reality - it is what it is. Put in the shoes of Canon management, most people reading this forum would probably make the same decision.


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## Marsu42 (Jun 28, 2012)

gmrza said:


> This explanation sounds entirely plausible. Most 5DII users were not screaming for better sensor performance - they wanted better AF



At the same time, this real sensor upgrade on the 1dx explains why Canon was so lenient to put the 1dx's af system in a much "cheaper" camera body, though at a lower af speed as far as I understand it. They felt sufficiently confident that the 1dx would blow the 5d3 out of the water anyway - not only for better built and more shutter cycles and so on, but simply due to the 1dx's high-iso shots making a real difference unlike 5d2/5d3.


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## chrysek (Jun 28, 2012)

Awesome review ))) finaly someone did something and provided some sample images )) good job )))


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## Drizzt321 (Jun 28, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> gmrza said:
> 
> 
> > This explanation sounds entirely plausible. Most 5DII users were not screaming for better sensor performance - they wanted better AF
> ...



Well, I think they needed to do something big for the 5d3's AF system on top of whatever else they were doing because so many people seemed that was a big failing of the 5d2. If they hadn't done something that big, they might not have gotten all that many people buying the 5d3. 

That, and they can also harness the power of mass production to make much of the AF system for both 5d3 & 1DX cheaper on a per unit cost since they share large parts. Same with the firmware, they probably could take large parts of the firmware from the 1DX and put them into the 5d3 for the AF system.


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## GDub (Jun 28, 2012)

[quote author=Drizzt321]
That, and they can also harness the power of mass production to make much of the AF system for both 5d3 & 1DX cheaper on a per unit cost since they share large parts....
[/quote]

AKA, farm it out to slave labor in China. Brilliant! High end gear at "low" prices for those of us who don't care how we get our discounts.


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## Drizzt321 (Jun 28, 2012)

GDub said:


> [quote author=Drizzt321]
> That, and they can also harness the power of mass production to make much of the AF system for both 5d3 & 1DX cheaper on a per unit cost since they share large parts....



AKA, farm it out to slave labor in China. Brilliant! High end gear at "low" prices for those of us who don't care how we get our discounts.
[/quote]

That's what pretty much everyone else does in the electronics (or most other manufacturing) industry. Not saying I personally agree with the policy, at least in so much as the working conditions and pay are, from what I understand, mostly pretty horrible, unsafe, and they are paid almost nothing. Not saying it has to be up to US standards of pay (depending on local costs of living & such), but they really should be safe and have some decent pay.


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## psolberg (Jun 28, 2012)

I'm waiting for DXO to take a crack at it and dp-review. Those are the statistics based reviews. For actual results I prefer http://diglloyd.com/
well worth the subscription give the sheer amount of comparisons using top of the line zeiss glass.


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## GDub (Jun 28, 2012)

Drizzt321 said:


> GDub said:
> 
> 
> > [quote author=Drizzt321]
> ...



That's what pretty much everyone else does in the electronics (or most other manufacturing) industry....
[/quote]

Aye, lad. There's the rub.


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## bvukich (Jun 28, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> Philco said:
> 
> 
> > I've never met anyone with a 1 series that didn't make money with it.
> ...



You're also someone that has the skill to sell pictures, but takes the very noble route of taking pictures for people that can't afford it for free. That makes you many shades of awesome in my book.


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## JR (Jun 28, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > Philco said:
> ...



Well hello yet again from another hobbyist who is getting the 1DX


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## JR (Jun 28, 2012)

bvukich said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > Philco said:
> ...



+1


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## JR (Jun 28, 2012)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > And he's saying 1 stop improvement in noise for higher ISO. If that's true for raw and not just JPEG then that's quite significant as that advantage. Likely this will at least pair it with the D4 in performance.
> ...



Well, this looks insanely good indeed. Having the D4 myself currently as my pro body, I must say these sample from the 1DX seem at least as good if not better at high ISO. Of course we will only know when comparing both camera under same condition. Cant wait to compare them both first hand!


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## EchoLocation (Jun 28, 2012)

D_Rochat said:


> EchoLocation said:
> 
> 
> > jaduffy007 said:
> ...


It looks pretty sweet. I like those hi ISO flower shots. I just saw the small samples, but the high iso 12000, 25000 shots look damn good. But the samples i opened were small. But yes, for the price, and the delay, the 1DX should be amazing. I think Canon screwed up their PR though by having such serious delays. I feel like they might have rushed it out just to avoid missing the Olympics in a few weeks.
However, the 1DX is definitely not a camera for me.... for me, It just serves as a symbol of what Canon is capable of.


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## stessel tank (Jun 28, 2012)

Going to Japan in late October will be getting the 1DX before i go hope price and availability in Aust will ok by then,it will be a good upgrade from the 1D3 , can't wait for the camera and the Japan trip.


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## V8Beast (Jun 28, 2012)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> One guy with Canon connections said months ago that we'd soon enough realize that Canon held back their new sensor tech for the 1DX so they could re-use the old lines once more to raise margin on the 5D3 since they felt that all the body upgrades were enough this time to not force their hand at the 100% new sensor tech.



There's a big shock. Canon went all out with the 5D2's sensor and crippled it with a POS body and AF system last round. Now they went all out on body and AF with the 5D3, and crippled the sensor. You mean to tell me companies intentionally position their products to fit within specific subsets of users and price points? What an outrage!


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## expatinasia (Jun 28, 2012)

Woke up this morning to find, as expected, a lot of posts in this thread, but boy was it hard work wading through all the D800 and 5D Mark III posts!

I thought the review was very interesting, although I just wish he had kept hold of his 1D Mark IV a little longer so we could have had side by side comparisons of those two cameras.

Am looking forward to even more reviews in the weeks to come.


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## D_Rochat (Jun 28, 2012)

V8Beast said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > One guy with Canon connections said months ago that we'd soon enough realize that Canon held back their new sensor tech for the 1DX so they could re-use the old lines once more to raise margin on the 5D3 since they felt that all the body upgrades were enough this time to not force their hand at the 100% new sensor tech.
> ...


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## EchoLocation (Jun 28, 2012)

Drizzt321 said:


> GDub said:
> 
> 
> > [quote author=Drizzt321]
> ...



That's what pretty much everyone else does in the electronics (or most other manufacturing) industry. Not saying I personally agree with the policy, at least in so much as the working conditions and pay are, from what I understand, mostly pretty horrible, unsafe, and they are paid almost nothing. Not saying it has to be up to US standards of pay (depending on local costs of living & such), but they really should be safe and have some decent pay.
[/quote]
I live in China, and I'm American. My wife owns a small factory and she sells products to several larger factories, so I have access to several large factories(usually Chinese motorcycle and other engine making factories, nothing anyone in the US has heard of.) 
These factories are very very nice and as safe as most any factory around the world(with a little less worry than the US about insurance, etc.)
Pay is not almost nothing, it's actually pretty decent at most large factories. 
I have not been to Foxconn, or anything like that... but from the factories I have seen personally, which are not huge international brands(and IMO more likely to be below US standards than Nikon, Canon, Apple factories,) the people are treated very well and have fine working conditions. The pay is average or above average overall for China. 
Most people are paid around 200-400 dollars a month. Yes, 400 dollars a month is not much for America... But outside of camera gear, electronics, and fancy foreign food and alcohol, I easily live on 400 dollars a month in China.... And I order tortilla chips online and go out to fancy western bars. I can take my wife to an awesome dinner that is huge(we cant finish it) for 4 dollars. A coca cola is 40 cents here. My phone bill is 6 dollars a month for unlimited minutes and texting. The people who are paid 200 dollars are usually very old and work because they have worked their whole lives and have nothing else to do. There are a couple 75 year old men at my wife's factory that are paid about 200 dollars a month(much less than others.) They were given apt's long ago by the state, and the factory provides meals, pays utilities, etc. These people often don't need to work, and they really don't do much at the factory. They simply help when they can, do paperwork, clean. Many old people here feel that if they quit working, they will die. Often old people who live with their now rich children will go out in the day and collect recycling from garbage cans. Not because they NEED money, but because they want to be active and they feel that people are just throwing away money(recycling is $ to them.) It is part of their culture and they don't want to do nothing.
I am sure that there are factories that are below standards, pay less, are unsafe and do illegal things. But this is not the majority and I can guarantee that it is not the case at Nikon or Canon factories in China....
Me and my wife often talk about Foxconn and are confused about what is going on there, and why they are having such problems. The large motorcycle factories I have seen are exactly the same as large factories I have seen in the US(I used to work in a large mfg facility in Seattle for 2 years.)
Additionally, because of the rise in the middle class, there is a huge shortage of low cost labor here in China so factories are rapidly increasing their pay to attract more workers.


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## jaduffy007 (Jun 28, 2012)

psolberg said:


> I'm waiting for DXO to take a crack at it and dp-review. Those are the statistics based reviews. For actual results I prefer http://diglloyd.com/
> well worth the subscription give the sheer amount of comparisons using top of the line zeiss glass.



Enthusiastic +1 for diglloyd Lloyd Chambers. DxO for measurements, Lloyd for real world. Something is "fishy" at dpreview imo.


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## jaduffy007 (Jun 28, 2012)

D_Rochat said:


> V8Beast said:
> 
> 
> > LetTheRightLensIn said:
> ...



Thanks for the laugh!


----------



## wockawocka (Jun 28, 2012)

EchoLocation said:


> Drizzt321 said:
> 
> 
> > GDub said:
> ...


I live in China, and I'm American. My wife owns a small factory and she sells products to several larger factories, so I have access to several large factories(usually Chinese motorcycle and other engine making factories, nothing anyone in the US has heard of.) 
These factories are very very nice and as safe as most any factory around the world(with a little less worry than the US about insurance, etc.)
Pay is not almost nothing, it's actually pretty decent at most large factories. 
I have not been to Foxconn, or anything like that... but from the factories I have seen personally, which are not huge international brands(and IMO more likely to be below US standards than Nikon, Canon, Apple factories,) the people are treated very well and have fine working conditions. The pay is average or above average overall for China. 
Most people are paid around 200-400 dollars a month. Yes, 400 dollars a month is not much for America... But outside of camera gear, electronics, and fancy foreign food and alcohol, I easily live on 400 dollars a month in China.... And I order tortilla chips online and go out to fancy western bars. I can take my wife to an awesome dinner that is huge(we cant finish it) for 4 dollars. A coca cola is 40 cents here. My phone bill is 6 dollars a month for unlimited minutes and texting. The people who are paid 200 dollars are usually very old and work because they have worked their whole lives and have nothing else to do. There are a couple 75 year old men at my wife's factory that are paid about 200 dollars a month(much less than others.) They were given apt's long ago by the state, and the factory provides meals, pays utilities, etc. These people often don't need to work, and they really don't do much at the factory. They simply help when they can, do paperwork, clean. Many old people here feel that if they quit working, they will die. Often old people who live with their now rich children will go out in the day and collect recycling from garbage cans. Not because they NEED money, but because they want to be active and they feel that people are just throwing away money(recycling is $ to them.) It is part of their culture and they don't want to do nothing.
I am sure that there are factories that are below standards, pay less, are unsafe and do illegal things. But this is not the majority and I can guarantee that it is not the case at Nikon or Canon factories in China....
Me and my wife often talk about Foxconn and are confused about what is going on there, and why they are having such problems. The large motorcycle factories I have seen are exactly the same as large factories I have seen in the US(I used to work in a large mfg facility in Seattle for 2 years.)
Additionally, because of the rise in the middle class, there is a huge shortage of low cost labor here in China so factories are rapidly increasing their pay to attract more workers.
[/quote]

Nice to learn something today.


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## Northstar (Jun 28, 2012)

EchoLocation said:


> Drizzt321 said:
> 
> 
> > GDub said:
> ...


I live in China, and I'm American. My wife owns a small factory and she sells products to several larger factories, so I have access to several large factories(usually Chinese motorcycle and other engine making factories, nothing anyone in the US has heard of.) 
These factories are very very nice and as safe as most any factory around the world(with a little less worry than the US about insurance, etc.)
Pay is not almost nothing, it's actually pretty decent at most large factories. 
I have not been to Foxconn, or anything like that... but from the factories I have seen personally, which are not huge international brands(and IMO more likely to be below US standards than Nikon, Canon, Apple factories,) the people are treated very well and have fine working conditions. The pay is average or above average overall for China. 
Most people are paid around 200-400 dollars a month. Yes, 400 dollars a month is not much for America... But outside of camera gear, electronics, and fancy foreign food and alcohol, I easily live on 400 dollars a month in China.... And I order tortilla chips online and go out to fancy western bars. I can take my wife to an awesome dinner that is huge(we cant finish it) for 4 dollars. A coca cola is 40 cents here. My phone bill is 6 dollars a month for unlimited minutes and texting. The people who are paid 200 dollars are usually very old and work because they have worked their whole lives and have nothing else to do. There are a couple 75 year old men at my wife's factory that are paid about 200 dollars a month(much less than others.) They were given apt's long ago by the state, and the factory provides meals, pays utilities, etc. These people often don't need to work, and they really don't do much at the factory. They simply help when they can, do paperwork, clean. Many old people here feel that if they quit working, they will die. Often old people who live with their now rich children will go out in the day and collect recycling from garbage cans. Not because they NEED money, but because they want to be active and they feel that people are just throwing away money(recycling is $ to them.) It is part of their culture and they don't want to do nothing.
I am sure that there are factories that are below standards, pay less, are unsafe and do illegal things. But this is not the majority and I can guarantee that it is not the case at Nikon or Canon factories in China....
Me and my wife often talk about Foxconn and are confused about what is going on there, and why they are having such problems. The large motorcycle factories I have seen are exactly the same as large factories I have seen in the US(I used to work in a large mfg facility in Seattle for 2 years.)
Additionally, because of the rise in the middle class, there is a huge shortage of low cost labor here in China so factories are rapidly increasing their pay to attract more workers.
[/quote]

Interesting...thanks for sharing..


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## pedro (Jun 28, 2012)

dilbert said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



Well. then this says a lot about the 5D2 users who stay on hold by now. Well, uh maybe I'll wait it out then as well...as long as my 30D is nicely clicking...Pricetag is unlikely to come down...and three to four years from now...they cannot rely on the same sensor tech. If that is true, Canon could have kept the 5D3 at 3k...but somehow they gotta get their R&D investement back for the 1Dx ... :-\
P.S.: Just wonder what sensor tech will be included in the rumored high MP count body!


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## awinphoto (Jun 28, 2012)

One thing i got out of that video that I can use on the 5d3... in the menu system, he said to jump from one tabbed menu to the other without going through each submenu, pressing the q button jumps you over... I'm sure it was somewhere in the monstrous 5d3 manual, but i either overlooked it looking for meatier tidbits of information or missed it alltogether... anywho it works for the 5d3 as well. I was getting tired going through every submenu to get to the next tab in the menu...


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## GDub (Jun 28, 2012)

EchoLocation said:


> Drizzt321 said:
> 
> 
> > GDub said:
> ...


I live in China, and I'm American. My wife owns a small factory and she sells products to several larger factories, so I have access to several large factories(usually Chinese motorcycle and other engine making factories, nothing anyone in the US has heard of.) 
These factories are very very nice and as safe as most any factory around the world(with a little less worry than the US about insurance, etc.)
Pay is not almost nothing, it's actually pretty decent at most large factories. 
I have not been to Foxconn, or anything like that... but from the factories I have seen personally, which are not huge international brands(and IMO more likely to be below US standards than Nikon, Canon, Apple factories,) the people are treated very well and have fine working conditions. The pay is average or above average overall for China. 
Most people are paid around 200-400 dollars a month. Yes, 400 dollars a month is not much for America... But outside of camera gear, electronics, and fancy foreign food and alcohol, I easily live on 400 dollars a month in China.... And I order tortilla chips online and go out to fancy western bars. I can take my wife to an awesome dinner that is huge(we cant finish it) for 4 dollars. A coca cola is 40 cents here. My phone bill is 6 dollars a month for unlimited minutes and texting. The people who are paid 200 dollars are usually very old and work because they have worked their whole lives and have nothing else to do. There are a couple 75 year old men at my wife's factory that are paid about 200 dollars a month(much less than others.) They were given apt's long ago by the state, and the factory provides meals, pays utilities, etc. These people often don't need to work, and they really don't do much at the factory. They simply help when they can, do paperwork, clean. Many old people here feel that if they quit working, they will die. Often old people who live with their now rich children will go out in the day and collect recycling from garbage cans. Not because they NEED money, but because they want to be active and they feel that people are just throwing away money(recycling is $ to them.) It is part of their culture and they don't want to do nothing.
I am sure that there are factories that are below standards, pay less, are unsafe and do illegal things. But this is not the majority and I can guarantee that it is not the case at Nikon or Canon factories in China....
Me and my wife often talk about Foxconn and are confused about what is going on there, and why they are having such problems. The large motorcycle factories I have seen are exactly the same as large factories I have seen in the US(I used to work in a large mfg facility in Seattle for 2 years.)
Additionally, because of the rise in the middle class, there is a huge shortage of low cost labor here in China so factories are rapidly increasing their pay to attract more workers.
[/quote]

China is a huge country with a massive population. And while I believe that what you're saying about your experience with local factories where you live China is true, I also think you are whitewashing (inadvertently perhaps) what is a VERY large problem with the Chinese manufacturing system as a whole. 

It doesn't take much time to do a Google search and cull a whole lot of information about labor conditions in China. The NYTimes blog posting below is a fairly "lightweight" exposé compared to other articles/reports I've read. 

http://thelede.blogs.nytimes.com/2012/01/26/q-and-a-with-li-qiang-of-china-labor-watch/

BTW, I have a friend who lives and owns a bar in Shanghai, and generally loves living there.


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## robin (Jun 28, 2012)

And what does that all have to do with the 1D X???


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## helpful (Jun 28, 2012)

I am sorry. I was truly off topic. The issue of human rights means a lot more to me because of my family's history than the 1D X does. I was caught by the troll about the China issue.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jun 28, 2012)

dilbert said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



Yeah, although to be fair, sometimes a little knowledge is a dangerous thing so a semi-insider may have a view or assemble some bits of info in ways that in the end are actually distorted from reality.


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## GDub (Jun 28, 2012)

helpful said:


> I am sorry. I was truly off topic. The issue of human rights means a lot more to me because of my family's history than the 1D X does. I was caught by the troll about the China issue.




If by "troll" you were referring to me, well, helpful, I am no troll. My "China" post was in response to someone who suggested that since "all manufacturers" are outsourcing to a low wage, and sometimes abused workforce, that that is somehow OK--because we, the more privileged, reap the benefits by getting discounts on electronic gear (including cameras). And that relates to the 5DM3 references in this thread that wax on about "value" in relation to bells and whistles. "Why should I have to pay $XXX more for something that is only 'marginally' better than the last version...?" Why? Because the price of EVERYTHING has gone up CONSIDERABLY over the past 4 years since the 5D2 was released. That the price went up for the next iteration reflects economic reality. For me, the "marginal" improvements to the 5DM3 are well worth the extra cost. And, personally, I'm not interested in saving a few bucks off someone else's hardship--aka, the underpaid and overworked laborers of the world.

As an aside to the 5DM3 price bemoaners (and to trollishly belabor the point even more):

I put new tires on my car earlier this week. The last time I replaced the tires on the car was 4 years ago. I went to the same local tire shop both times. The tires I bought were the identical brand and model that I bought 4 years ago. Same tires, same shop. The difference... PRICE! 4 years ago they cost $610 (mounting, balancing and tax included). This time I paid $750--ON SALE! Now one might say, "You got gouged because there were no improvements. Why pay more?" But I say that's how much prices for my particular tire brand and model have increased over the past 4 years. I say that with confidence because I know the people at the tire shop. Been going there for years and they have ALWAYS done me right--actually they have quite a stellar business reputation in general.

So my point is that the Mark II's original $2700 price tag compared to the Mark III's $3500 price tag is more or less right in line with general price increases for almost EVERYTHING over the past 4 years. That the Mark III actually has notable improvements over the Mark II makes the price increase seem even more reasonable to me.


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## Razor2012 (Jun 28, 2012)

GDub said:


> helpful said:
> 
> 
> > I am sorry. I was truly off topic. The issue of human rights means a lot more to me because of my family's history than the 1D X does. I was caught by the troll about the China issue.
> ...



Agreed.


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## helpful (Jun 28, 2012)

GDub said:


> helpful said:
> 
> 
> > I am sorry. I was truly off topic. The issue of human rights means a lot more to me because of my family's history than the 1D X does. I was caught by the troll about the China issue.
> ...



No, I didn't mean you. There was someone who posted a long thing about how it wasn't so bad now in China, and it was getting a lot better. I am not trying to attack anyone, so I am not even going to look at who said it.


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## lipe (Jul 1, 2012)

hi whatever the review is

this is what I have been waiting for

it is time, I upgraded my 5d Classic to canon 1dx

in my country some people have it already

http://www.fotofile.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2631


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## nightbreath (Jul 1, 2012)

lipe said:


> it is time, I upgraded my 5d Classic to canon 1dx



Can you share some thoughts about the camera? Some test shots maybe?


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## expatinasia (Jul 1, 2012)

lipe said:


> in my country some people have it already
> 
> http://www.fotofile.net/forums/showthread.php?t=2631



A friend of mine who lives in Thailand, called Canon TH and even went into a Canon shop. Those he spoke to had never heard of the camera, and not one person could give a price. So, I would guess that those that are buying or selling the camera there, are getting it from Malaysia or Singapore. I would be very wary myself.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 1, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> SandyP said:
> 
> 
> > The sensor isn't nearly as similar as people are describing..
> ...


 
It also has more readout channels for faster readout, and improved on chip circuitry for low noise readout, its basically a whole new sensor, and noticibly better. Only in camera jpegs have a resolution issue from too much default NR. Raw images are supurb.


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## Jamesy (Aug 31, 2012)

Not usre if this has been posted elsewhere but here is Fred Miranda's 1DX review:
http://www.fredmiranda.com/1dx-review/


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## Nick England (Sep 2, 2012)

I'm begrudgingly coming round to the fact that this is the camera I have to upgrade to.

I'm currently shooting off two ancient 1D mk2's, which have done me proud, but I'm getting left behind in the tech race. They're good for the majority of stuff I shoot, but lacking in other areas, and I'm having to hire cameras to cope with the shoots where I need more than the mk2's can handle.

I was going to upgrade to the Mark 4, and maybe get a Ds Mk3 as backup, but having seen some of the high quality ISO shots (in particular Andy Rouse's owl shots), I think I'm going to can the idea of the Mk4.. My work is pretty varied, and the idea of being able to shoot at that high an ISO in certain situations is very tempting.

Still maybe get a Ds3 as backup (although I'll reserve judgement after using the 5dMk3 I'm hiring for a shoot this week).

The X looks like a phenomenal piece of kit, and considering I was going to spend £2, 800 on a Mk4, I think I'm going to have to justify the extra £1, 200.

Now then... Anyone want to buy a couple of Mamiya RB-67's with lenses etc etc etc? 

Nick


----------

