# little complain about the dual card system on 5D III



## Turbocharged (Mar 20, 2012)

i was really ;D when i hear i can store RAW & JPG files separately into different cards on 5D3, so i can have RAW on CF, and JPG on SD, really convenient, but decided not to use this function after all.

Reason 1: number of continuous shooting dropped significantly from RAW+JPG on one card
Reason 2: I can't manage the photos effectively, yes the files are named the same and write to separate cards at the same time, but I can't link the RAW and JPG while i try to delete them, if i want to delete an image, I'll have to press playback, find the photo, delete from one card, go to setting, set playback to another card, press playback again, find that same photo in different format and delete that one. if i have 30 photos i want to delete while reviewing... that's not practical at all...

and canon has confirmed that it can't be link while delete files...


----------



## samueljay (Mar 20, 2012)

The obvious solution would be to not delete images in camera, but yeah if that's your style, it would be quite annoying!


----------



## AG (Mar 20, 2012)

I still don't understand why you need to shoot RAW+JPEG anymore? 

Unless you are planning on chin ping your photos and using the tiny LCD to make your final decision on the quality of your shot. It would make more sense to use the RAW only format (whatever size you wanted) then set the camera to use the "Auto Switch Card" Recording Method. 

That way you can use a large capacity CF card and a smaller capacity SD (or Eye-Fi SD) as a fallback card and once the CF is full have it switch over to the SD, as soon as you get a break between shoots, pull out the CF card and either replace it or Dump it to an external drive such as a PC/Mac and then stick it back in once empty. All the while shooting to the SD. That way you don't lose too many shots.

Would be handy if it was hot swappable and you could choose that whenever you insert a CF card it instantly gets capture priority, but that would be too much to ask.


----------



## unkbob (Mar 20, 2012)

For pro use, shoot RAW + jpeg, put the CF cards in your pocket and leave the sd card in your camera. So when your camera gets stolen, or your pocket explodes, at least there's another copy somewhere.

Exploding pockets are uncommon, however


----------



## scottk (Mar 20, 2012)

Don't ever, ever, ever delete files in camera. That is the number one cause of corrupt unreadable memory cards.


----------



## The_Arsonist (Mar 20, 2012)

scottk said:


> Don't ever, ever, ever delete files in camera. That is the number one cause of corrupt unreadable memory cards.



Where's the study on that? I've always heard that not formatting regularly was one of the root causes of memory card corruption


----------



## Arkarch (Mar 20, 2012)

Well for one thing deleting files is going to fragment your memory card. And for another, I cant believe a camera-based embedded memory storage system is going to be robust enough to reliably handle it. 

Especially for the SD Card. With my experience with them in high volume, I dont trust them. But as a backup, or as a platform for Eye-Fi - its a nice feature. Even for event photography where I want to keep the raws but the client wants to post the JPEGs immediately - could be nice.


----------



## Turbocharged (Mar 20, 2012)

AG said:


> I still don't understand why you need to shoot RAW+JPEG anymore?



well, i'm not a pro user, i used to shoot RAW only with 5D2, and convert them to JPEG to store after some editing in DPP/PS, and i only edit less than maybe 10% of them, Shooting RAW+JPEG can save me a lot time since i dont need to convert that 90% of photos into JPG, and the ability of storing jpeg on SD-card-only make sense to me because i can take the card out, put it into pretty much any computer/HDTV nowadays without needing a card reader or RAW file plugin (especially with 5D3 RAW format).

i often delete photos from camera after review them on the LCD. taking 12 continuous picture in 2 seconds of my kid running, i m not gonna keep all of them, out of which 1/3 or more are bad ones i can easily tell on the LCD screen. and i cant afford those high speed high capacity cards ...


----------



## wickidwombat (Mar 20, 2012)

Turbocharged said:


> AG said:
> 
> 
> > I still don't understand why you need to shoot RAW+JPEG anymore?
> ...



solid thinking its strange as I am pretty sure my 1D3 deletes from both cards when i delete a photo i'll have to check perhaps its a setting?


----------



## ecka (Mar 20, 2012)

Turbocharged said:


> AG said:
> 
> 
> > I still don't understand why you need to shoot RAW+JPEG anymore?
> ...



You are still getting higher quality JPGs from converting unedited RAW files, than those SOOC JPGs. For me, it's worth the extra time, not that there is a lot of it anyway. 5sec/file? 300 RAW = 25 minutes


----------



## pwp (Mar 20, 2012)

If you _HAVE _to shoot JPEG files along with your RAW files select RAW+JPEG(small). Fill your CF card and then move on to the SD. Personally I have not shot JPEG files for years. I can't see the point. With a RAW workflow it is unnecessary. It slows down your write speed, bloats your buffer and fills your cards faster. 

Programs like PhotoMechanic or BreezeBrowserPro have an option to extract embedded JPEGs from the RAW files. Occasionally this is useful. BB in particular does this very quickly, racing through a big folder of RAWS in a heartbeat.

In the end it's whatever floats your boat. This just happens to work fine for me.

Paul Wright


----------



## FunPhotons (Mar 20, 2012)

The only good reason I heard for storing RAW + JPG is for a pro who has a client that wants to walk away from the shoot with a picture in hand.

For me, dual slots aren't particularly useful (serious non professional), and dual/different format even less. If I was a pro I would do backups of every shot, even though that isn't a panacea either. 

I don't understand the post about not deleting in-camera, even though this is DOS filesystem which is dog-stupid and easy. Given that I don't use it unless the frame is totally black, much preferring to edit on the computer. I wish they didn't have a dedicated button for it.


----------



## briansquibb (Mar 20, 2012)

Dual slots are useful in that you can have two cheaper lower capacity cards


----------



## P_R (Mar 20, 2012)

Hi,
This is a little off topic, but why did Canon choose to have different card types for the 5d3? Two cards - fine. CF or SD, fine too. But why one _and _ the other?

I'm guessing the feature sets don't overlap and so having both allows you to pick a little of each?

Cheers,

P_R.
(By the way, glad the smite system has gone (even if briefly). Hoping members now use words to describe their disagreement, it is a *discussion* forum!)


----------



## unkbob (Mar 20, 2012)

I actually like the idea of two different formats. Means I always know which card I'm removing, and an assistant / second shooter won't screw up so easily.


----------



## kidnaper (Mar 20, 2012)

P_R said:


> Hi,
> This is a little off topic, but why did Canon choose to have different card types for the 5d3? Two cards - fine. CF or SD, fine too. But why one _and _ the other?
> 
> I'm guessing the feature sets don't overlap and so having both allows you to pick a little of each?
> ...



Could be almost anything. We can only assume what reason Canon engineers were swayed by, but it could have been price, the size of a second CF connector on the board or the card in general. My assumption is the upgrade path. They probably thought a lot of people getting a Mk.III for video would be coming from a T3/2i and already had SD cards.


----------



## AvTvM (Mar 20, 2012)

P_R said:


> This is a little off topic, but why did Canon choose to have different card types for the 5d3? Two cards - fine. CF or SD, fine too. But why one _and _ the other?
> I'm guessing the feature sets don't overlap and so having both allows you to pick a little of each?



Don't know Canon's reasons, but I like the CF+SD slot configuration for the following reasons:
* while using CF cards in my 7D, the compact cams in our family and other mobile devices take SD ... so there is a supply of both types around
* SD cards can be purchased almost everywhere, CF are far more difficult to get in many places
* but I have more trust in hi-quality CF cards than SDs, so I'm glad Canon did not use 2 SD slots 
* my PC, notebook and TV set all have an SD-slot, but no CF slot - so for quick ooC jpgs SD will be handy 
* Eye-Fi up to now is only avaiblable in SD format, so I can add WIFI for 50 Euro any time I need it, rather than being forced to purchase that insanely expensive and ridiculously chunky Canon WFT-E7 brick.

Probably some of these reasons also guided Canon in their decision. 
And lastly: I am really happy Canon stayed away from those Sony XQD cards.


----------



## RichATL (Mar 20, 2012)

Been using SD cards for years...(Rebels) never had any problems *knock on wood*

With the 5d3, I plan to pick up a 32gb CF to use as an in camera backup (writing all files) and changing SD's when I fill them up.

Probably won't even take the CF out of the camera unless there is a problem.


----------



## FunPhotons (Mar 20, 2012)

unkbob said:


> I actually like the idea of two different formats. Means I always know which card I'm removing, and an assistant / second shooter won't screw up so easily.



I guess so, but if I was a pro and it mattered what I would do is put a label on each card such as 1-1, 1-2, ... 2-1, 2-2 with the "1-" cards corresponding to the first/frontmost slot, and the "2-" corresponding to the rearmost slot. Maybe I'd put a sticker key inside the door or on the slots, if there is a spot for it.


----------



## Chewy734 (Mar 20, 2012)

AG said:


> I still don't understand why you need to shoot RAW+JPEG anymore?



If you can store the JPEG in the SD card, then it would be ideal for viewing on an iPad using their connection kit. The display on the iPad is a ton better than the smaller LCD screen on the back of a 5D3.


----------



## Astro (Mar 20, 2012)

> Well for one thing deleting files is going to fragment your memory card.



since when has "fragmenting" any significance for flash memory?

harddisk ok.. but SSD or FLASH memory should be unaffected by fragmenting.
that´s why you should disable defrag for SSD´s.


----------



## AnselA (Mar 20, 2012)

I would have preferred two cards of the very same type but that is me.


----------



## tt (Mar 20, 2012)

Astro said:


> > Well for one thing deleting files is going to fragment your memory card.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


If a block is wiped, then you can just write to the block. 
it isn't defragmented (eg all wiped to zeros) , the whole blckk has to be wrewritten not just the section you want to write the file too. 

A 2 K write can cause a much larger section to be written for example. Imagine camera cards could be similar.


----------



## briansquibb (Mar 20, 2012)

Astro said:


> > Well for one thing deleting files is going to fragment your memory card.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



SSD bytes have limited read/write cycles so it is best to write over the whole disk rather than a small portion


----------



## Fleetie (Mar 20, 2012)

ecka said:


> 5sec/file? 300 RAW = 6 minutes


??!!

Come again?

Try 5s * 300 = 1500s = 25 minutes!


----------



## TexPhoto (Mar 20, 2012)

I never delete in camera. I just have large cards, and download often. I do think deleting in camera and formatting on the computer, or not at all are contributors to corrupt cards.

I also think cards get lost when they are out of the camera, far more often than pockets explode.

My 5DIII will have a 32GB CF card, and an 8GB Eye-Fi Pro. The Eye-Fi pro will be new for me, and will send my photos to my iPad for review, Facebook and instagram.


----------



## awinphoto (Mar 20, 2012)

Raw + Jpeg was originally intended for pro's with clients on hand or art directors/creative directors who have laptops on hand and want to see files OOC. Most art directors who dont have raw software may or may not be able to open a raw file on their laptop computer, plus download time... time is money, right? So the idea is you throw in the card, download the jpeg, opens in seconds, and opens in just about any image program... art director see's what you have, gives critique and pointers on where he wants the shoot to go from there... if the scene is tickling his fancy or if he wants to go in another direction. It's a down and dirty quick soft proof for clients or that was the thinking of it... The 2 cards helped streamline it so you can take out the backup card and not disturb the original in case you need to continue shooting, and why the SD card? It's cheaper? I personally dont see the appeal but to each their own. I'm a professional and shoot large jpegs from time to time depending on what i'm doing, what my original output is meant to be, and whats going on... If it's for print, or if I get that hunch that I want the original for my portfolio, I shoot Raws... if I have a client who wants photos for their website, screw it, i shoot jpegs... If it's for small prints, jpegs... If it's down and dirty chasing my kids around for the heck of it, jpegs (I can fit more jpegs on my cards than raws)... Plus I have tested tried and true settings on my jpegs where I dont lose much info, plus the extra time going through ACR/DPP to process the raws, unless it's worth my time and time (money), then I shoot raw.. when it's not, then i'm fine shooting jpeg if needed.


----------



## justsomedude (Mar 20, 2012)

TexPhoto said:


> The Eye-Fi pro will be new for me, and will send my photos to my iPad for review, Facebook and instagram.



+1

The dual CF/SD slots can provide a multitude of new display options. I can stream my images via WiFi to my Android tablet - and with the HDMI out on the tablet, send a direct feed to a large LCD for instant soft proofing in-studio.

So sick.


----------



## ecka (Mar 20, 2012)

Fleetie said:


> ecka said:
> 
> 
> > 5sec/file? 300 RAW = 6 minutes
> ...



 my bad, I don't know how that 6 got there


----------



## samueljay (Apr 3, 2012)

ecka said:


> Fleetie said:
> 
> 
> > ecka said:
> ...


Hey Ecka,
Just wondering how you convert so many raws to jpegs that quickly? Is that using one of those software programs you mentioned? I only use Photoshop, and even batching that many is annoying because I have to stay at the computer and hit enter every time it opens / saves a new file.
Thanks 
Sam.


----------



## Shamus1 (Apr 3, 2012)

Actually I don't mind, as I shoot pro dance, currently with 1DMkIV, 1DMkIII, 5DMkII and now 5DMKIII. I love the dual cards for back-up and after the shoot, usually don't even have to look at them, but due to the 1 Series am set up for the dual card format. If it had been two CF's, a little tricker keeping track of them as I can go thru quite a few (2,000 - 3,000 shots during a long show with two - three bodies) and I would have to get a few more CF cards...


----------



## briansquibb (Apr 3, 2012)

samueljay said:


> ecka said:
> 
> 
> > Fleetie said:
> ...



DPP has a batch convert and can also does a resize at the same time if needed.

DPP can also apply batch changes (like levels, wb etc) - take seconds for a 1000 files

DPP - free and forgotten but highly capable


----------



## AvTvM (Apr 3, 2012)

justsomedude said:


> TexPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > The Eye-Fi pro will be new for me, and will send my photos to my iPad for review, Facebook and instagram.
> ...



+1
that is the one use I would have for a second card slot with SD. It allows us, to spit on Canon's huge, ugly, and ridiculously expensive Canon wtf-5 WIFI brick and get the job done with a small, 70 Euro Eye-Fi Card.


----------



## briansquibb (Apr 3, 2012)

I tether to get the output - wont be long before wireless USB arrives.


----------



## mcintoshi (Apr 4, 2012)

kidnaper said:


> P_R said:
> 
> 
> > Hi,
> ...



I can actually give a definitive answer on this one. I went to a 5D3 hands-on intro night at a local camera shop and they had flown in a Canon rep, who was extremely knowledgeable and there wasn't a technical question she couldn't answer. Anyway, the question of why two different formats came up, and the answer was that it was a combination of size and cost. Apparently it takes more physical space to get two CF connections in there, and I think also it would have made it more challenging engineering-wise, which would have upped the cost.

So that's it straight from the horse's mouth. (Sorry Michelle from Canon Australia, I'm not calling you a horse - you did a great job fielding some _ridiculous _questions).


----------



## ecka (Apr 10, 2012)

samueljay said:


> ecka said:
> 
> 
> > Fleetie said:
> ...


Hey Sam,
I aplogize for such late response, I wasn't around here for some time. To be fair, I never did convert so many RAW files at once (perhaps this is why my calculations were wrong). However, I did batch process 50-60 RAW files and 5sec/file speed is real. I think that it highly depends on what hardware you are using. Any system based on Intel i7 CPU (or equivalent) and 6+ GB of RAM (I find 2-4GB RAM being too low for a fast PS/LR workflow) would do it easily. I'm not sure what software I mentioned in that context (if any), I'm using Adobe Lightroom and I only press enter to overwrite an existing JPG file or to save the new one with a different name. You can choose to export new files to a subfolder so there will be no interruptions.


----------



## samueljay (Apr 10, 2012)

Hey Ecka!
No worries at all! I've since discovered LR and DPP  They're both ace and have sped up the process ten-fold. And yeah, my MBP only has about 4GB RAM, will look to getting a beast iMac if / when I start doing this more seriously


----------



## prestonpalmer (Apr 12, 2012)

unkbob said:


> For pro use, shoot RAW + jpeg, put the CF cards in your pocket and leave the sd card in your camera. So when your camera gets stolen, or your pocket explodes, at least there's another copy somewhere.
> 
> Exploding pockets are uncommon, however



Yup. I write RAW to the CF and JPG to the SD. The SD is nothing more than a rolling emergency backup. NEVER delete images in camera. Very very bad practice.


----------



## sparda79 (Apr 13, 2012)

samueljay said:


> I only use Photoshop, and even batching that many is annoying because I have to stay at the computer and hit enter every time it opens / saves a new file.



I would open the folder containing RAW files using Adobe Bridge. Select all RAW files and open with ACR. Then inside ACR, select all, click save image and save inside the same folder (or where ever you want).

After that you can just close the ACR and it will convert your RAWs one by one. There is no need to keep pressing enter.


----------



## prestonpalmer (Apr 13, 2012)

get Lightroom.


----------



## Ryant (Apr 14, 2012)

prestonpalmer said:


> unkbob said:
> 
> 
> > For pro use, shoot RAW + jpeg, put the CF cards in your pocket and leave the sd card in your camera. So when your camera gets stolen, or your pocket explodes, at least there's another copy somewhere.
> ...



I delete images on the camera all the time, why is this a bad practice? Canon added the delete button for a reason. I have done this on every 5d body without any corupt cards or issues. I admit i dont shoot as much as pros though so i am really currious why people sometimes say this. I think recording to cf is a bad practice because it slows the camera down. I can see how you might want it if your doing a wedding though. You might want to turn it off if you were to shoot a burst to capture the bride throwing flowers because you will get more pictures. With Cf the max burst is 7 with only cf the max burst I got is 18 with a Lexar 600x. Supposedly the ad card can even slow down the burst as well.

Ryan


----------

