# 5D Mark III doesn't live up to expectations in real world shooting...



## DarkKnightNine (Apr 27, 2012)

Just my 2 cents...​I honestly believe the Canon 5D Mark III was rushed out the door in attempt to steal some thunder from Nikon's mighty 36MP D800. Yes it may have been already in the production pipeline but I believe it wasn't quite ready for public release.​
I use the fact that 1DX being delayed by several months as a prime example. The 1DX was announced way before the 5D Mark III and yet Canon's engineers have determined it isn't quite ready yet. There are obviously problems that still plague their flagship release. The same can be assumed of the 5D Mark III which was rushed out the door just after being announced, I assume in attempt to stop a lot of photographers from jumping ship to Nikon.

After using the 5D Mark III in different real world shooting scenarios (tests and charts can be misleading), I can say that this camera does NOT perform up to expectations. 

Yes it has great resolution and should provide an excellent advantage to landscape and still life photographers, but it's advertised performance over previous models is questionable. After shooting Steph Pockets (who by the way gave an excellent performance last night), I was very disappointed with the results. The camera was not able to lock focus most of the time. Granted it was a very dark night club with next to nil for lighting, but I shot many times before in similar conditions with my trusty 1D Mark IV and came back with a much higher percentage of usable shots.

The 5D Mark III seems to work well in a studio environment where the subject and lighting can be controlled (even then, I would question the focusing system as it seems to be a little soft). I would not recommend this camera in it's present state for event photography and I'm seriously considering returning mine. I think Canon needs to work on perfecting the AF with firmware updates. 

I will say that the ISO performance was very good and the noise levels were unexpectedly low. My biggest gripe with this camera is the soft focusing AF. I want and expect my images to be tack sharp for a camera at this price point and marketed to professionals.​


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## KevinB (Apr 27, 2012)

One thing I notice you did not mention is which lens you were using, I did a concert last night in a very dark environment and found it to preform very well, very impressive, tack sharp is not just the sensor !!
I shot with what I think is a sub par Tamron 28-70 2.8 (which is being replaced today).

5d3 12800 iso, 125, 2.8 




Canon 5d mark III by Kev-S-B, on Flickr


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## pdirestajr (Apr 27, 2012)

With all respect, I don't think cameras or focusing systems, or even lenses make "soft" pictures- the photographer does. Every camera has limitations that need to be learned & mastered. It's just a tool at the end of the day.


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## dswatson83 (Apr 27, 2012)

The digic V has been around for almost a year I think and the 61 point auto focus system used in the M3 was introduced 6 months ago on the 1Dx. I doubt this has been a rushed camera. The build quality is tremendous and everything has been improved from the M2. There is not 1 feature that has not been improved upon on the M3. Unlike the D800 which while offering awesome resolution and DR is much slower and did not heavily improve high ISO performance (though the performance is stunning for a 36MP camera). If you want to compare something with the mark IV, compare the 1DX which has a separate processor JUST to run the AF system. I'm sure the AF on that camera will be unquestionably instant. The 5D mark 3 is using the 1 Digic 5 to power 22mp @6fps plus the AF & metering. That is A LOT and still it manages to perform well with a monstrous AF system, tons of pixels, and lightning quick 6fps shooting. For anyone coming from the lame 9pt Mark II focus system with 1 cross type sensor, the Mark III is out of this world. The Mark II was praised for its image quality more than any other comparable camera and I think that is why Canon focused on other areas more than resolution and dynamic range. But seriously, what would Canon have changed if they had an extra 6 months? The Digiv V was already developed and the AF is already top of the line. Most people (especially Nikon shooters) criticized the 5D mII for its high MP count.


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## DarkKnightNine (Apr 27, 2012)

In the studio, it's not spot on perfect sharpness but good enough that with some tweaking in Post the images will work. I took this self portrait by setting a deep DOF with f/13. It was able to maintain reasonable sharpness at that f-stop, but if I need to be at f/4.0 or shallower, I don't trust the Mark III to get the focus sharp enough.


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## DarkKnightNine (Apr 27, 2012)

dswatson83 said:


> The digic V has been around for almost a year I think and the 61 point auto focus system used in the M3 was introduced 6 months ago on the 1Dx. I doubt this has been a rushed camera. The build quality is tremendous and everything has been improved from the M2. There is not 1 feature that has not been improved upon on the M3. Unlike the D800 which while offering awesome resolution and DR is much slower and did not heavily improve high ISO performance (though the performance is stunning for a 36MP camera). If you want to compare something with the mark IV, compare the 1DX which has a separate processor JUST to run the AF system. I'm sure the AF on that camera will be unquestionably instant. The 5D mark 3 is using the 1 Digic 5 to power 22mp @6fps plus the AF & metering. That is A LOT and still it manages to perform well with a monstrous AF system, tons of pixels, and lightning quick 6fps shooting. For anyone coming from the lame 9pt Mark II focus system with 1 cross type sensor, the Mark III is out of this world. The Mark II was praised for its image quality more than any other comparable camera and I think that is why Canon focused on other areas more than resolution and dynamic range. But seriously, what would Canon have changed if they had an extra 6 months? The Digiv V was already developed and the AF is already top of the line. Most people (especially Nikon shooters) criticized the 5D mII for its high MP count.



Yeah but that's just it, I'm NOT coming from a "lame" (your words not mine) Mark II, I'm coming from a very fast and very capable 1D Mark IV. I thought I was trading up, now I'm not so sure. As far as it being rushed, you are absolutely WRONG on that! I spoke directly with Canon execs and played with it (here in Japan) days before it's official release. Even they told me that the engineers were still tinkering around with the firmware and not sure if it could be released on time. The problems I speak of could be something in the firmware that doesn't allow the camera to fully maximize it AF potential.


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## bolray (Apr 27, 2012)

maybe this is an issue of configuring the micro-focus for the lenses in question.


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## DarkKnightNine (Apr 27, 2012)

bolray said:


> maybe this is an issue of configuring the micro-focus for the lenses in question.



Yes I thought of that, and will try it before my next concert shoot tomorrow night.
I'm using the 16-35mm f/2.8L II and the 70-200 f/2.8L IS II USM for shooting concerts and events.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 27, 2012)

DarkKnightNine said:


> ...if I need to be at f/4.0 or shallower, I don't trust the Mark III to get the focus sharp enough.



Out of curiouslty, what procedure/method did you use to do an autofocus microadjustment?

EDIT:


DarkKnightNine said:


> Yes I though of that, and will try it before my next concert shoot tomorrow night.



Ahhh, so you've concluded that the AF is not that good without doing an AFMA. That's rather like concluding the camera's low-light performance sucks after shooting a few shots outdoors at high noon on a sunny day.


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## DarkKnightNine (Apr 27, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> DarkKnightNine said:
> 
> 
> > ...if I need to be at f/4.0 or shallower, I don't trust the Mark III to get the focus sharp enough.
> ...



Adjusting the camera to your particular lens and doing autofocus microadjustments are two different things. No I haven't adjusted for what may or may not be a lens to camera problem but I did set the up the autofocus system to "Case 5: For Erratic Subjects Moving Quickly in Any Direction" in the new AF Menu which I though was appropriate for a hip-hop artist (who happens to be very animated in her performance) moving around on stage. 

Just out of curiosity, do you actually own a Mark III because your analogy is nonsense. Lens microadjustments only need to be performed in rare cases. Usually the camera and lens fit within a tolerance of each other and those microadjustments aren't necessary. The fact that there does seem to be a case for those adjustments to be made suggests that there may be something wrong with the Mark III that it didn't fit within those tolerances. And by the way, I'm not the first person to report the soft focusing issues the the Mark III. Instead of being a Canon cheerleader and attacking people who discover a potential problem, perhaps you should consider the reality that large corporations sometimes do cut corners in the name of profit.


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## altenae (Apr 27, 2012)

If there is one thing this camera is good at it's his AMAZING AUTOFOCUS. 

Your post is the first post about AF is not good in real life. 
And yes I have the 5D mark III and all pictures are tack sharp. 

Just my 2 cents !!


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## DarkKnightNine (Apr 27, 2012)

KevinB said:


> One thing I notice you did not mention is which lens you were using, I did a concert last night in a very dark environment and found it to preform very well, very impressive, tack sharp is not just the sensor !!
> I shot with what I think is a sub par Tamron 28-70 2.8 (which is being replaced today).
> 
> 5d3 12800 iso, 125, 2.8
> ...



Honestly meaning absolutely no offense at all Kev, but this picture looks even more out of focus than mine. For a camera that cost me more that ¥300,000 I guess I expect more.


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## DavidRiesenberg (Apr 27, 2012)

DarkKnightNine said:


> Just out of curiosity, do you actually own a Mark III because your analogy is nonsense. Lens microadjustments only need to be performed in rare cases. Usually the camera and lens fit within a tolerance of each other and those microadjustments aren't necessary. The fact that there does seem to be a case for those adjustments to be made suggests that there may be something wrong with the Mark III that it didn't fit within those tolerances. And by the way, I'm not the first person to report the soft focusing issues the the Mark III. Instead of being a Canon cheerleader and attacking people who discover a potential problem, perhaps you should consider the reality that large corporations sometimes do cut corners in the name of profit.



On both my 7D and 5D3 as well as on rented 5D2 in the past three years I had to do AMFA on almost every lens. Some needed only ±2 while others as much as 15. So criticizing the sharpness without performing it is like accepting a speeding ticket from an uncalibrated speed gun. You wouldn't do that, right?

Another thing, in regards to low light shooting, is that the 5D3 is rated to operate at 1-20EV while the 1D4 and 1DX are rated to 0-20EV. That could also have had a negative impact on your findings at the club. Nothing wrong with the camera.


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## DarkKnightNine (Apr 27, 2012)

pdirestajr said:


> With all respect, I don't think cameras or focusing systems, or even lenses make "soft" pictures- the photographer does. Every camera has limitations that need to be learned & mastered. It's just a tool at the end of the day.



Yes indeed, that's why I've determined that the 5D Mark III belongs in a controlled environment like a studio whereas I'm waiting for the two 1DXes I ordered on announcement day for my event and concert shooting. That seems to be the 5D Mark III's limitations.

I only tried out the 5D Mark III last night because... 
1. I thought it might be able to handle it given it has basically the same AF as the 1DX and...
2. My 1DXes have been delayed so I have to shoot with what I have.


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## altenae (Apr 27, 2012)

DavidRiesenberg said:


> DarkKnightNine said:
> 
> 
> > Just out of curiosity, do you actually own a Mark III because your analogy is nonsense. Lens microadjustments only need to be performed in rare cases. Usually the camera and lens fit within a tolerance of each other and those microadjustments aren't necessary. The fact that there does seem to be a case for those adjustments to be made suggests that there may be something wrong with the Mark III that it didn't fit within those tolerances. And by the way, I'm not the first person to report the soft focusing issues the the Mark III. Instead of being a Canon cheerleader and attacking people who discover a potential problem, perhaps you should consider the reality that large corporations sometimes do cut corners in the name of profit.
> ...



Wrong !
The 61-point AF sensor of the 5D mark iii has twice the low light sensitivity as the 1D Mark IV’s 45-point AF sensor (EV -2 vs. EV -1).


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## bvukich (Apr 27, 2012)

DarkKnightNine said:


> Lens microadjustments only need to be performed in rare cases.



Like when the lens doesn't nail focus?

Also, at f/13 you are beyond the diffraction limit of the sensor. You will get better results at f/11 but still may soften fine details, f/8 will probably be the sweet spot.


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## Axilrod (Apr 27, 2012)

I can't get the AF to miss even if I try, I have no idea how this is an issue for you. Possibly the lens?


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## DarkKnightNine (Apr 27, 2012)

altenae said:


> If there is one thing this camera is good at it's his AMAZING AUTOFOCUS.
> 
> Your post is the first post about AF is not good in real life.
> And yes I have the 5D mark III and all pictures are tack sharp.
> ...



Not that I doubt your word, but what conditions are you shooting in to get your "Tack sharpness"? Are you shooting fast moving subjects in a dark environment? If so could you please post examples with the shooting data. I would love to be proven wrong because I do want to love this camera as I spend so much money on it and time adjusting it.


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## Axilrod (Apr 27, 2012)

DarkKnightNine said:


> Not that I doubt your word, but what conditions are you shooting in to get your "Tack sharpness"? Are you shooting fast moving subjects in a dark environment? If so could you please post examples with the shooting data. I would love to be proven wrong because I do want to love this camera as I spend so much money on it and time adjusting it.



There are thousands of people talking about how much they love the 5DIII's AF and you're worried about a single person proving to you that they are getting sharp images? Don't you think if they weren't getting sharp images that they would be quick to join you in condemning this camera? I don't think you should be accosting people on here because honestly the few pictures you posted look like absolute crap especially considering the gear you have. I can feel the arrogance radiating from your self portrait, I'm sure with an ego like that nothing is ever your fault huh?

I'm just saying there are plenty of people out there that have the exact same stuff that you do that are completely happy with the results they are getting, so what does that leave? Something tells me you have more money than talent. 

Maybe it's the fact that you're moving from a $5000 camera to a $3500 one, whereas most of us moved from the Mark II. I don't see why you would expect a cheaper camera to be an upgrade.


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## DavidRiesenberg (Apr 27, 2012)

Another setting to check, since you mentioned AI servo earlier is the "AI Servo 1st (and 2nd) Image Priority". It regulates wether to prioritize focus or burst speed (or responsiveness in the case of the first image of the burst).


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## DavidRiesenberg (Apr 27, 2012)

altenae said:


> Wrong !
> The 61-point AF sensor of the 5D mark iii has twice the low light sensitivity as the 1D Mark IV’s 45-point AF sensor (EV -2 vs. EV -1).



My bad. I got the metering and AF ratings mixed up.


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## DarkKnightNine (Apr 27, 2012)

bvukich said:


> DarkKnightNine said:
> 
> 
> > Lens microadjustments only need to be performed in rare cases.
> ...



You missed the point. I shot at f/13 for the portrait of myself above. Because of the deep DOF, the shot was very much "in focus". Shooting your self with a timer requires that you you have deep DOF. 

What I was saying is that when I have shallow DOF that I was finding the 5D Mark III to not nail focus and images were coming out a little on the soft side (usually for events or concerts with limited lighting conditions I'm at about 2.8 to 4.0). Another separate example image also above.


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## awinphoto (Apr 27, 2012)

A few thoughts... CR did a review on testing lenses a year or so back... it concluded that one lens could have different levels of AFMA needed on multiple bodies... It also said each camera could be fractions of percentages off and still be "within specs" and lenses the same way... so what may be perfect with one lens/camera combo may or may not be perfect on an other camera or identical lens. AF AFMA is definitely worth your time to check out... it may be right on, it may not, but it's something to do before jumping to conclusions. Also, as far as soft focus, if you can use live view, MF the image to tack sharp images, then it simply means the camera is capable of a sharp image, however the AF is slightly off, so fine tuning it may be needed and in worst case situations, sending the lens/camera to canon so they can calibrate it and make it perfect for you. Lastly the level you have our AF tracking set up for erratic focusing may or may not have a factor... if the AF is constantly looking for new points to focus on, it it's constantly looking for changes, for "erratic" movements, it may be jumping on and off focus before you are capturing the image in the first place. Those menu's are relatively new so perhaps some experimentation with those may be needed to find the exact best setting for the environments you are shooting in.

I know there are reports in very very low lighting it may struggle because there is no focus assist light or any additional chip to power the drive, but i've also read reports the camera is razor sharp when configured properly. Even some canon ambassadors have said technically speaking, the metering and AF system is more sophisticated on the 5d3 compared to the 1d4 and the 5d3 SHOULD have better tracking and AF accuracy than the 1d4. In practice it may not be as clear cut but i'd recommend calibrating everything and testing everything in a controlled environment first before you throw it in the deep end at a concert when you're still learning the AF system.


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## DavidRiesenberg (Apr 27, 2012)

Oh and one more thing to keep in mind while comparing it the 1D is that on 1 bodies the AF could still be faster in some case since it can drive the focus motors faster due to higher voltage.


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## DavidRiesenberg (Apr 27, 2012)

DarkKnightNine said:


> What I was saying is that when I have shallow DOF that I was finding the 5D Mark III to not nail focus and images were coming out a little on the soft side (usually for events or concerts with limited lighting conditions I'm at about 2.8 to 4.0). Another separate example image also above.



What you are describing is a text book example of needing to perform AMFA.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Apr 27, 2012)

DarkKnightNine said:


> Lens microadjustments only need to be performed in rare cases. Usually the camera and lens fit within a tolerance of each other and those microadjustments aren't necessary.


 
Every one of my 15 Canon lenses had to have at least some AFMA with my 5D MK III. Some of the images were soft until I did the adjustment.

If you want the sharpest possible image, its a must. Every body needs a different adjustment, and some lenses will be perfect with one body, and off with another.

I use FoCal, its the most accurate method I've found so far.


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## jlev23 (Apr 27, 2012)

if anyone is getting soft images at this point then we know its human error...


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 27, 2012)

DarkKnightNine said:


> Just out of curiosity, do you actually own a Mark III because your analogy is nonsense. Lens microadjustments only need to be performed in rare cases. Usually the camera and lens fit within a tolerance of each other and those microadjustments aren't necessary.



No, I don't have a 5DIII - I'm waiting for the 1D X which I preordered the first day B&H had that option. 

I disagree with your statement that AFMA is only needed in rare cases...I do have a 5DII and a 7D, both of which have the AFMA feature. I can tell you that of the 20 possible combinations of my 10 autofocus lenses with two bodies, *19 of those 20 require AFMA*. In some cases, only a unit or two, which may not be enough to matter for 'real world' shooting, but in most cases more that that is required. 19/20 ≠ rare, IMO.



DavidRiesenberg said:


> DarkKnightNine said:
> 
> 
> > What I was saying is that when I have shallow DOF that I was finding the 5D Mark III to not nail focus and images were coming out a little on the soft side (usually for events or concerts with limited lighting conditions I'm at about 2.8 to 4.0). Another separate example image also above.
> ...



+1. My point, exactly.

But then, it seems to be more fun to bash something without trying to understand the root of the problem, much less try to fix it.


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## steven63 (Apr 27, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> DarkKnightNine said:
> 
> 
> > Just out of curiosity, do you actually own a Mark III because your analogy is nonsense. Lens microadjustments only need to be performed in rare cases. Usually the camera and lens fit within a tolerance of each other and those microadjustments aren't necessary.
> ...



AFMA is there for a very good reason. These are professional level tools (camera and lenses) and I don't know of any professional level tools that will not allow you to 'tweak' a vital function -ESPECIALLY when that vital function affects the final output to such an extent as focus on a camera system. In my opinion, if you aren't exercising these 'professional level' options a complaint directed at a finished product for which the camera designers allow you to make adjustments to is lacking credibility.

Please perform AFMA and report back with your results before seriously reviewing the 5dMiii. And no, I don't own one, but I do understand AFMA and why it is there.


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## DarkKnightNine (Apr 27, 2012)

Axilrod said:


> DarkKnightNine said:
> 
> 
> > Not that I doubt your word, but what conditions are you shooting in to get your "Tack sharpness"? Are you shooting fast moving subjects in a dark environment? If so could you please post examples with the shooting data. I would love to be proven wrong because I do want to love this camera as I spend so much money on it and time adjusting it.
> ...



Yes that was truly helpful. Something tells me you reak of self righteousness. 
Why would I expect a cheaper camera to be an upgrade? Well let's see if I can break this down for you Sesame Street: 
Crop sensor to Full Frame
New Sensor tech with larger pixels
Supposedly better AF
Supposedly better Metering
Digic 5 Processor

If you knew even a fraction about technology, you would know things get better and cheaper as tech matures.

"Matures" that's a good word. How about you exercise some maturity and leave your personal attacks of what think of me and/or my pictures to yourself. Enough people find my work just fine enough to pay for it so frankly you thinking my pictures are crap really doesn't concern me. I was just asking if the person could show some of his examples of tack sharp, low light images shot with this camera. I neither attacked him nor doubted him. And I really don't see what your problem is.


Yes there are many great images being taken with this camera, I'm speaking of one specific condition where in low light, the camera is NOT tack sharp and I would like to see images to prove the contrary. All the wonderful pictures you speak of seem to be in fair to great lighting conditions.

If you're not here to help, how about you just scoot along little fella.


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## Northstar (Apr 27, 2012)

dark...i appreciate your comments and perspective. 

Here are mine... I'm feeling pretty good about the AF now, but in my first couple shoots trying different AF settings I, like you, was a little disappointed. But after spending some time playing around with AF settings I've come to a point where I think the AF is great...maybe not excellent, but great.

I've added a couple shots where the AF was challenged...I shot both of these images w/ the 70-200 ii with 2xiii (which obviously slows down AF speed) 
the ducks were really flying fast as they were flying downwind
the trumpeter swans were moving quickly and a bit erratic (they were fighting)

both groups of birds were about 150 feet away - I think the autofocus nailed these shots

both shots - HANDHELD


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## pdirestajr (Apr 27, 2012)

What was the ISO, shutter speed & aperture of the OP's posted photo? To me, it just looks like a low light/ high ISO pic at a wide aperture... Where is the problem?

Add some sharpening in post. If it isn't sufficient, use a flash. There are limits.

I think it's crazy that people use these cameras to shoot in places that film could have never gone without flash, at crazy high ISO's, and expect low noise and super sharp photos!


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## Ricku (Apr 27, 2012)

My only gripe with the 5D3 is the lousy sensor improvement over the 5D2, and that it gets completely blown out of the water by the D800, when it comes to dynamic range.

Heres to hoping for a swift release of the 5D4.


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## EYEONE (Apr 27, 2012)

DarkKnightNine said:


> If you're not here to help, how about you just scoot along little fella.



In all honesty, you haven't been very receptive to the help people have provided. You just seem to want to complain.

The first thing I do when I get a new lens is check the focus. Luckily none that I own have need any adjustment but several rented lenses have. It's just good to check. Esp if you are a wide open shooter. 

I am making no assumptions or insults on your intelligence at all but the new 61 point system is quite different and perhaps more study is required. It's very similar to the 7D's system and it took me some time to fiddle with it and then finally decide one which mode was best for me. I had a lot of failures as a result.

But I _just_ have a 7D so what do I know... :


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## nitsujwalker (Apr 27, 2012)

Ricku said:


> My only gripe with the 5D3 is the lousy sensor improvement over the 5D2, and that it gets completely blown out of the water by the D800, when it comes to dynamic range.
> 
> Heres to hoping for a swift release of the 5D4.



Lousy sensor improvement? From what I can tell, many people are extremely happy with the improvement in the way the sensor handles noise. More megapixels does not necessarily equate to sensor improvement. Now in DR, at least according to DXO, dynamic range was not improved... But lets not get off track from the OP's topic


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## Tracy Pinto (Apr 27, 2012)

The AF is terrific and the image quality is outstanding (color accuracy and detail especially). I'm not sure what OP needs to adjust but several posts seem to offer good approaches at getting the most of the really fine camera. I'm still learning to use it but the initial feedback images certainly makes me want to fully master all its features and understand the engineering design. Like all tools it requires time and practice to properly utilize it.


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## bvukich (Apr 27, 2012)

DarkKnightNine said:


> bvukich said:
> 
> 
> > DarkKnightNine said:
> ...



I probably should have clarified... The first part was in reference to your initial post, and the fact you will need AFMA to nail focus on your thin DoF shots. The second part, was just a note on your self portrait; you will get sharper results (especially on fine details) if you don't stop down quite so much, and you should still have plenty of DoF to pull off that shot at f/8 or f/11.


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## Maui5150 (Apr 27, 2012)

I always have to laugh at how often people with "soft pictures" who blame the AF are the same ones who don't AFMA their lenses.


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## Ricku (Apr 27, 2012)

nitsujwalker said:


> Lousy sensor improvement? From what I can tell, many people are extremely happy with the improvement in the way the sensor handles noise. More megapixels does not necessarily equate to sensor improvement. Now in DR, at least according to DXO, dynamic range was not improved... But lets not get off track from the OP's topic


The happy ones are happy because of improved high ISO noise. (improvement noticeable above ISO 3200.)

For the ones of us who rarely go over ISO 400, there is zero improvement.

But yes, lets not get off track here.


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## DarkKnightNine (Apr 27, 2012)

Northstar said:


> dark...i appreciate your comments and perspective.
> 
> Here are mine... I'm feeling pretty good about the AF now, but in my first couple shoots trying different AF settings I, like you, was a little disappointed. But after spending some time playing around with AF settings I've come to a point where I think the AF is great...maybe not excellent, but great.
> 
> ...



Really nice shots! Could you please share what your AF settings were e.g. Case 1 through 5 in the AF menu and if you did any further adjustments after selecting a Case.
Thanks.


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## DarkKnightNine (Apr 27, 2012)

bvukich said:


> DarkKnightNine said:
> 
> 
> > bvukich said:
> ...



Thanks for the advice. Usually when I shoot short portraits I'm around f/7.1 or 8 unless I'm trying to do something artistic.


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## DarkKnightNine (Apr 27, 2012)

EYEONE said:


> DarkKnightNine said:
> 
> 
> > If you're not here to help, how about you just scoot along little fella.
> ...



Perhaps I was a little hasty to pass judgement on the camera, just as you were hasty to pass judgement on me. I don't have an ego when it comes to taking advice but at the same time I hate it when people assume that just because you say something negative about a product from their favorite company that you must be an idiot, incompetent or a basher. Canon and Nikon fanatics are becoming like Apple Fanboys. It's madness. Corporations exist to make money and in doing so they will cut corners to get a new product out the door if they fear competition is heating up. Canon is no different from any other corporate entity. 

You also seemed assumed that I must have loads of cash to spend on equipment. Believe me if I did, we wouldn't even be having this conversation because I would be on Leica's Forums talking about an S2. Every penny I spend is one very rigorously earned so I guess I'm extra critical when my equipment doesn't live up to expectations.

On that note, I guess I had become so accustomed to the images I was getting from my 1D Mark IV that it hadn't really occurred to me that I had spent the better part of 3 years with that camera learning, tweaking and perfecting my shooting style with it.

I appreciate all the advice and input from everyone here. I'll try AFMA and I know that you can enter the serial number for your exact lens into the 5D Mark III. I'll try that and tweaking the AF System a little more to see if I can get better results when I shoot another concert again tomorrow night.


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## CowGummy (Apr 27, 2012)

i like your belt.


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## williejr (Apr 27, 2012)

DarkKnightNine said:


> pdirestajr said:
> 
> 
> > With all respect, I don't think cameras or focusing systems, or even lenses make "soft" pictures- the photographer does. Every camera has limitations that need to be learned & mastered. It's just a tool at the end of the day.
> ...




I'm like you have a 1DIV and have put it down since my 5DM3 has arrived. I have tried to put it to the test (low light, sports, engagement shoots...ect) and intially was dissappointed. I wasn't quite nailing focus, the right exposures and trying to find the correct "case" that would suit my shooting style/subject.

I went back to the drawing board, read the 5DM3 manual over and sat down to really understand the new AF and AI servo features and watch a bunch of the new videos on the Canon learning site about the new 61pt AF. 

I quickly found out, the the 5DM3 AF point-linked spot metering was ONLY limited to the center point, unlike the 1DIV that had been accustomed to, so my metering was always off. Switching AF points on the 5DM3 required a extra step, unlike the 1DIV where you can use the toggle stick at anytime. Also, for some strange reason, my lenses were a tad off and I needed to micro adjust. My best lens, the 35L 1.4 was spot on perfect with my IV, but on the M3, I need to micro adjust +5. My 24, 85, 70-200 were spot on. I played around trying different cases and it turned out using the default case and slowing down the tracking priority seemed to do the trick.

Just these small tweaks and a lot of practice as rendered some great images in different enviroments. There is definate learning curve and adjustment period. With all these people that say, my 5DM3 shoots nothing but great images, is just an exaggeration, because nobody has 100% keepers.


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## jabbott (Apr 27, 2012)

Have you tried shooting concerts with fast aperture prime lenses? Personally I never get the shutter speed or AF performance I'm looking for when using zoom lenses in dim concert lighting. An f/1.4 lens takes in 4X as much light than f/2.8 which makes a huge difference. Admittedly the DOF is razor thin however. Here is one of my favorite concert shots of Gregg Block of Ploy for Extinction, in the middle of headbanging, shot with a Canon 50mm f/1.4 wide open:


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## ers811 (Apr 27, 2012)

DarkKnightNine said:


> Lens microadjustments only need to be performed in rare cases. Usually the camera and lens fit within a tolerance of each other and those microadjustments aren't necessary.



I'm not going to bother reading all the pages in between here and now, I'll just say that every single lens I use on my 5D2 needs AFMA.

Every single one.

If you buy an F1.2-F1.8 lens and it works perfectly out of the box with your camera, you got lucky.


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## deviousrlm (Apr 27, 2012)

I've shot 4 bands/DJs now with the 5DMKIII and I must say, it is very superior to my 7D in most every way. 

This shot at 12800 ISO especially shows how with just a little raw processing you can get very clean images out of this camera:



I have not had focusing issues:


I agree with some of you saying it's likely the photog and not the gear....

Here you can see some 30+ shows I shot w/ my 7D and then the 4 most recent with the 5DMKIII and see the difference. 

http://mattappsphotography.com/bands

The only new lens I got with the 5DMKIII was the 16-35, which is obviously great as well (I used the 10-22 on the 7D). Otherwise, all the lenses were pretty much the same.

I can't recommend the 5DMKIII enough, but obviously 3500 isn't small potatoes. 

Low-light is tough, and expecting the camera to do all the work isn't realistic. Human skill with that camera, however, does make for some compelling work.


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## nitsujwalker (Apr 27, 2012)

deviousrlm said:


> I've shot 4 bands/DJs now with the 5DMKIII and I must say, it is very superior to my 7D in most every way.
> 
> This shot at 12800 ISO especially shows how with just a little raw processing you can get very clean images out of this camera:
> 
> ...



Great shots!


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## Razor2012 (Apr 27, 2012)

nitsujwalker said:


> deviousrlm said:
> 
> 
> > I've shot 4 bands/DJs now with the 5DMKIII and I must say, it is very superior to my 7D in most every way.
> ...



Agreed, 12800 looks good.


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## RonQ (Apr 27, 2012)

ers811 said:


> DarkKnightNine said:
> 
> 
> > Lens microadjustments only need to be performed in rare cases. Usually the camera and lens fit within a tolerance of each other and those microadjustments aren't necessary.
> ...


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## PhotoCat (Apr 27, 2012)

ers811 said:


> DarkKnightNine said:
> 
> 
> > Lens microadjustments only need to be performed in rare cases. Usually the camera and lens fit within a tolerance of each other and those microadjustments aren't necessary.
> ...




I was really curious to know if the Nikon guys need this AFMA. We r so used to it in the
Canon camp that whenever we purchase a new lens, we need to get a bandage for it as well LOL!

So I found the following link. It seems that the Nikon guys don't need this AFMA as much as we do...
Well, u tell me why...

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/937053

I think one should eventually be able to design a camera/lens AF system that doesn't require AFMA.
AFMA feels like a bandage solution to me... and it seems to rely on absolute tolerance of components too much...


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## t.linn (Apr 27, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I use FoCal, its the most accurate method I've found so far.



This is a great tip. I'd never heard of FoCal before but it looks like a very useful tool. With the Martin Bailey discount the Pro version is only $75. That's cheaper than going with an alignment tool to perform the process manually. I know what I'll be doing this weekend.


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## Northstar (Apr 27, 2012)

DarkKnightNine said:


> Northstar said:
> 
> 
> > dark...i appreciate your comments and perspective.
> ...



Dark...my AF settings for now: (a work in progress as most of us 5d3 shooters know)
1. I'm mainly using case 1 and 2 right now. I find simple is better, with time I'll experiment with the others.
2. I'm shooting manual, with single point AF point expansion. Center single focus point and the 8 surrounding points..and I believe 5 of those 9 points are the dual cross type af points. 
3. I've selected -ONLY use cross type af points 
4. In AI servo I'm using the EQUAL PRIORITY for 1st and 2nd image. (still experimenting here) 
5. NEVER using AI FOCUS...either one shot or ai servo 
6. I set up my dof button to allow me to switch between one shot and ai servo just by pressing the dof.

hope this helps...and good luck.
oh...just because I love to show off the pooch...another AF example 
Pooch is moving very quickly/erratically trying to catch that bouncing ball...it's very cloudy, dark clouds. I shot a burst of about 8 images and all are focused about this good...this was a very casual spur of the moment shot taken w/o much thought,(underexposed, iso too low, shutter speed too low) So I think the AF was challenged here and it came through pretty good.

handheld -straight out of cam JPEG with only cropping and bumping the light.


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## Northstar (Apr 27, 2012)

deviousrlm said:


> I've shot 4 bands/DJs now with the 5DMKIII and I must say, it is very superior to my 7D in most every way.
> 
> This shot at 12800 ISO especially shows how with just a little raw processing you can get very clean images out of this camera:
> 
> ...




I really like these shots!


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## 1982chris911 (Apr 27, 2012)

Well as long as it is capable of shots like these it is within my expectations or better  ... 
P.S. I love the new AF ... 




Decentered Ascent - Umschreibung #2 von 1982Chris911 (Thank you 500.000 Times) auf Flickr




The Impossible Staircase - Umschreibung #1 von 1982Chris911 (Thank you 500.000 Times) auf Flickr




Signs of Spring - Ladybird von 1982Chris911 (Thank you 500.000 Times) auf Flickr




Stone Bridge Regensburg - Blue Hour von 1982Chris911 (Thank you 500.000 Times) auf Flickr


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## Razor2012 (Apr 28, 2012)

1982chris911 said:


> Well as long as it is capable of shots like these it is within my expectations or better  ...
> P.S. I love the new AF ...
> 
> 
> ...



Nice shots, which lenses were you using?


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## 1982chris911 (Apr 28, 2012)

Razor2012 said:


> Nice shots, which lenses were you using?



Top two Sigma 12-24 HSM II, Ladybird is Canon 70-200 F2.8 IS II + Ext III x2 at 400mm, bottom Canon 24-70 f2.8


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## Razor2012 (Apr 28, 2012)

1982chris911 said:


> Razor2012 said:
> 
> 
> > Nice shots, which lenses were you using?
> ...



The 2x extender on the ladybug looks good. I plan on getting the 1.4III.


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## DarkKnightNine (Apr 28, 2012)

williejr said:


> DarkKnightNine said:
> 
> 
> > pdirestajr said:
> ...



Thank you. Finally a voice of reason. I just think so many people want to jump on the fanboy bandwagon and sing nothing but praises to the new Canon toy that no one wants to even consider the possibility that there may be something a little off. Like you, coming from a 1DMKIV and trying to adjust to the new camera has been a little difficult. I was able to get great pictures in controlled lighting but that's pretty rudimentary. It's the challenging lighting that makes a $3,000+ worth the price. Otherwise I would just shoot with a Rebel.

Anyway despite all the negative criticism, I'm determined to get the optimized settings and since I had read on other forums that the camera was having problems with the focus being a little soft, I thought I might have been experiencing similar problems. I guess this was the wrong forum to express those concerns and from now on I will only comment on this forum when I have something glowing to say about Canon gear as it seems most people aren't even open to the idea that there are occasionally problems that aren't necessarily user error.

That being said one of the reasons why I was looking forward to using this camera over my 1D Mark IV was for cleaner images at higher ISO. Another was higher resolution over the 16MP MKIV. This camera does do both of those things exceptionally well. Now if I can just get the AF to perform as well as my MKIV, I will be in heaven (that is until I get my hands on the 1DX which I think will be better suited for event photography).

Thanks for sharing that tip about the Spot Metering only being linked to the Center Point. I assumed it would be linked to whatever point I chose like on the MKIV since this is a more advanced metering and AF system.


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## DarkKnightNine (Apr 28, 2012)

Northstar said:


> DarkKnightNine said:
> 
> 
> > Northstar said:
> ...




Yes this was very helpful. Thanks for sharing. I'm sure there are many people like myself who are still cutting their teeth with this new AF system so it really helps to get examples and settings from people who are having success with it rather than having people say "you're a crappy photographer and don't know how to shoot". I'm sure those same people also get missed or crappy shots as well even though they will never admit it. I've been a pro for many years and I know many other pros and we all know that missed shots are something that can't be avoided (granted the percentage is lower for pros), so I'm not afraid to admit I screw up and/or may not know how to use a new system. So thank you for your help and I'm sure others reading this post have also learned a thing or two as well.


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## DarkKnightNine (Apr 28, 2012)

1982chris911 said:


> Well as long as it is capable of shots like these it is within my expectations or better  ...
> P.S. I love the new AF ...
> 
> 
> ...



Yes admittedly these are very lovely shots. Love them! But they are nowhere near addressing the concerns I was speaking of. They aren't shots of a fast moving subject in an extremely low lit environment. Someone mentioned earlier that I shouldn't expect that much from my camera but my counter argument would be, then Canon shouldn't charge so much for it. Getting these kinds of shots are not as difficult as shooting a performance in a dimly lit club and I believe could be achieved just as easily with a 5D Mark II or a 7D and good technique. So yes I do expect a lot from the 5D Mark III especially after waiting three years for the upgrade and paying a premium price over other Canon bodies or the competition.


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## risc32 (Apr 28, 2012)

I guess i'm not as critical as many of you, or i'm just lucky. i haven't strayed from the factory defaults for the AF system settings. I'm just using one sensor, and using my thumb to bump it around as needed. only using the cross type. I haven't fooled with the micro adjusting either. It looks good to me, at 100% views. Even my 300mm2.8 wide open at the minimum focus distance. I've getting a better hit rate than i ever did with my 1dmk2.


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## omegavisuals (Apr 28, 2012)

The thing is that you immediately said that the 5D Mark III was released too early. I don't feel like this at all when I receive a new camera (I've gone through multiple Canons and Nikons over the past couple of years). The thing that many people seem to forget is that unless you created that camera, you won't know how to make it work exactly like your last one. That's not how Canon makes them.  They create a new design and with a new AF system, you're going to have to learn how to use it. It's a completely redone system, it's not going to act the same. Moving from a 7D to a 1D Mark III for sports, I quickly saw differences in the generations of AF systems. They're not all the same, so yes they'll need AFMA, and quite some time to get the nuances worked out  take it as a learning opportunity, Canon released it not for the sole reason of just saying, "Hey, we got it out in time for the D800." The camera works, but like all cameras, there are flaws...


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## deviousrlm (Apr 28, 2012)

DarkKnightNine said:


> Northstar said:
> 
> 
> > DarkKnightNine said:
> ...



Hey DKN-- sorry, I should have been more helpful in my previous post beyond just showing examples. Coming from the 7D, the focusing was very similar so the adjustment to the MKIII was pretty easy for me. For club stuff, I typically shoot in either P (with a longer lens) or in T (for a wider lens) allowing the camera to choose ISO (it's almost always wide open since it's dark). For AF, I always use one-shot, metering evaluative (and then just shoot a lot and change exposure comp if the lighting is wacky, which it always is...) and let the camera do the work. If lighting is sort-of stable, I might shoot M which now is nice that the MKIII will auto change ISO. 

For focus, I usually use the Expand AF area (the 3rd option) or go down to spot or manual if that doesn't work. With a shot like the one below, you have to be with spot or 1pt AF or it will just go between the hand and face... and the shot will be blurry.







Manual can be too touchy though--depends if it's really dark or band is moving fast (why is it always both?  ) 

Then occasionally, I use liveview!






Which actually focuses well too. This was shot with the camera over my head, wide-open and is surprisingly sharp with my 50mm 1.4 wide open. ISO 100 too (!!)

I'll admit I have not done any microadjustments for my lenses and I've been pretty happy. Of course you throw shots away, but at this point, it's more circumstance than anything.

Keep at it--I think if you shoot with 1-shot AF and get the hang of precision of the points, you'll get more usable. Or I guess something could be funky with your copy and/or the lenses you are using it with.

Cheers,
Matt


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## LostArk (Apr 28, 2012)

The only thing that disappoints me about the 5D3 is that you can't take spot meter readings from any AF point. The 5D3 has the same AF system as the 1DX, which does have that feature (along with the 1D4, 1DS3). I can sort of understand why previous non-flagship cameras lacked this feature, since the 5D3 is the first Canon camera I'm aware of with an AF system (or any feature) that is a hand-me-down from the current flagship. Why Canon, WHY? I know Canon nerfs their consumer products to "protect" their flagship, but this is ridiculous. Nikon consumer bodies have been able to spot meter from the AF point since the D70 for God's sake.


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## FrutigerSans (Apr 28, 2012)

Her Midnight Rendezvous by FrutigerSans, on Flickr

This was a snap shot I took last night. This was a very quick shot - the 5D3 performed beautifully, locking focus immediately after I framed the shot. I snapped of quite a few frames to get the pose of the subjects and the position of the moving cars that I wanted. All within a matter of seconds.

All my frames were in focus.

For what its worth, I only use the 41 Cross points as I find their accuracy in low light far exceeds the remaining 20 points.
I’m also using an un-edited case 1. And my shutter is set to focus priority over release priority.


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## pdirestajr (Apr 28, 2012)

LostArk said:


> The only thing that disappoints me about the 5D3 is that you can't take spot meter readings from any AF point. The 5D3 has the same AF system as the 1DX, which does have that feature (along with the 1D4, 1DS3). I can sort of understand why previous non-flagship cameras lacked this feature, since the 5D3 is the first Canon camera I'm aware of with an AF system (or any feature) that is a hand-me-down from the current flagship. Why Canon, WHY? I know Canon nerfs their consumer products to "protect" their flagship, but this is ridiculous. Nikon consumer bodies have been able to spot meter from the AF point since the D70 for God's sake.



Heck, my EOS-3 film camera (45pt AF system) from the 90's can do spot metering from off center focusing points. It can even do multiple readings and average them together! And don't even get me started on Eye-Control focusing 

Now Canon just needs to put a "D" at the end of that name...


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## Violettpunkt (Apr 28, 2012)

Axilrod said:


> Something tells me you have more money than talent.


+1


neuroanatomist said:


> But then, it seems to be more fun to bash something without trying to understand the root of the problem, much less try to fix it.


+1



Pretty much sum up the OP in person IMHO.


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## DarkKnightNine (Apr 28, 2012)

Violettpunkt said:


> Axilrod said:
> 
> 
> > Something tells me you have more money than talent.
> ...




Yes you're absolutely right, I'm a rich, talentless whinner who gets his kicks off of coming to a forum of a manufacturer that everyone loves to bash said manufacturer because I have nothing better to do with my time just so I get verbally abused. Yep that's what I wake up and live for. You got me all figured out. 

I'm sick of taking crap just because I posted concerns that I was having with my camera. 
I never want to see a negative post on this forum ever again and you abusive people (in no way referring to the ones who were helpful) had better be taking award winning shots every time you press your shutter release no matter what the circumstances are. As a matter of fact, I wish CanonRumors would start a Photo Contest so we can see all of those wonderful shots that you all seem to think you can take. 

One thing I have learned from living in Asia since I retired from the military is that western people can be abusive for no other reason than just wanting to be abusive. It is neither helpful nor is it impressive. It just makes you look like an a$$. 

If you think I was bashing Canon, you are WRONG! Why would I own so much Canon gear if I didn't like their products, but like some of you, I'm not under the illusion that corporations can do no wrong. I have lived and worked in Japan for over 2 decades and have been a consultant to many tech companies. I have seen many goofs that make to market and signed more NDAs than you can possibly imagine, so I guess I'm more critical than some of you may be because I have leagues more experience on the subject and have worked with and for many Japanese companies.

If you think I'm rich, you are WRONG, I work my a$$ off for every hard earned penny.

And if you think I'm talentless, well that's your opinion and I don't mind that but you should keep it to yourself. I have seen many pictures that I didn't think were all that great posted here and on other forums but I would NEVER (out of simple human courtesy and respect) tell the person they are talentless. How would a comment like that help them become a better photographer? If anything, it would make them lose confidence and perhaps give up. Photography is an art form and art is something that is subjective. What one person may hate, another may love so what right do any of us have to call another person talentless?! I'm willing to accept that I'm not the greatest photographer (I still have much to learn) but I am published in several magazines so to call me talentless is a bit overboard and completely disrespectful.

And finally if you think I'm not trying to understand or fix the problem, why would I be here? The people who have provided suggestions have been very helpful and as this is a new camera with a completely new AF, I'm sure we all have had and will have our own individual problems with it. Forums like this can be a great source for us each to share what we learned and the failures we've had so that others may learn. If you think the 5D MKIII was perfect, then why would Canon still be working on the 1DX which has a similar AF system. Not to mention the comment that almost all of you seem to overlook is that I spoke directly with Canon Execs and played with the camera literally three days before the camera's official release and even they told me it wasn't perfected yet. I was also one the first people in Japan to take delivery of one so it is entirely possible that my particular camera may have some bugs that a lot of yours don't. 

So to just bash me for your own ego's sake is just stupid and not helpful to anyone much less me.


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## briansquibb (Apr 28, 2012)

DarkKnightNine said:


> Yes you're absolutely right, I'm a rich, talentless whinner who gets his kicks off of coming to a forum of a manufacturer that everyone loves to bash said manufacturer because I have nothing better to do with my time just so I get verbally abused. Yep that's what I wake up and live for. You got me all figured out.
> 
> If you think I'm rich, you are WRONG, I work my a$$ off for every hard earned penny



How dare you try to depose me as the rich, talentless whinner   

Now you perhaps understand why I got the proven 1DS3 instead of waiting for the 5DIII. It has the AF point linked metering and all the other series 1 features - plus of course 21mp


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 28, 2012)

@DarkKnightNine - personally, I have no problem with you or anyone bashing Canon when warranted, and for sure they've screwed up many times (1DIII AF, 5DII black spots, to name a couple). The issue, IMO, is that you led off with (paraphrasing), "Canon rushed the 5DIII out prematurely, it's not ready for prime time, the AF system is ineffective." You might be right on all three points, but on the last one, you didn't fairly evaluate the performance. It's like stating the new car you just bought has a problem because it can't seem go over 30 mph, it's defective and you want a refund, when you put the transmission in 2nd gear instead of Drive. 



DarkKnightNine said:


> As a matter of fact, I wish CanonRumors would start a Photo Contest so we can see all of those wonderful shots that you all seem to think you can take.



There was one, a few months back - the prize was a choice between a 8-15L fisheye and a 70-300L. Frankly, there was a huge, diverse array of amazing images from forum members.


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## bp (Apr 28, 2012)

DKN, don't let forum trolls get you riled - them typing 4 characters, resulting in you typing 10,000 means they succeeded. Screw that - heh. Frankly, when you shelled out the money, you bought the right to publicly say whatever the heck you want about the camera. 

I came from 5d2/7D - not the 1D4 - so for ME, this is by far the best camera I've ever owned. I could imagine that coming from a 1D series to a 5D series could take some getting used to.

I got a little frustrated in my first several hours of testing out the 5d3 - for ME, it was that I was still using expansion points in low light with wide apertures. The camera seemed to want to pick a spot that I didn't intend, and most shots were slightly off. I switched over to spot AF, and suddenly it was nailing everything - even my dog who was having a freak-out session, lit only be the television behind him. I intended to switch back over to zone and use expansion points again later, but so far I haven't taken it off spot because it's workin for me. I almost feel like I'm letting all these advanced options go to waste, but if it aint broke...

Then again, it always seems that different people have better luck with different settings, but it's definitely true that some experimentation is needed to find YOUR sweet spot. i.e. one guy here is constantly advising people to never use AI Servo with 1.2 lenses, and for whatever reason, that's where I have most success with my 85II wide open. Servo nails every shot and I have less luck with one shot. Maybe I'm just shakier than he is. heh. So, to each his own. 

Keep at it, play around with settings, find that sweet spot for you! Or return it or resell it - these things are still in pretty hot demand right now.


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## KevinB (Apr 28, 2012)

Very good info !! 



Northstar said:


> DarkKnightNine said:
> 
> 
> > Northstar said:
> ...


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## EvilTed (Apr 28, 2012)

DKN,

You need to take their attacks like water flowing off a ducks back....

OSU!

ET


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## bvukich (Apr 28, 2012)

EvilTed said:


> DKN,
> 
> You need to take their attacks like water flowing off a ducks back....
> 
> ...



Ditto...

Constructive criticism is welcome here, *bashing the guy's talent is not*.

DarkKnightNine... Ignore the trolls, and try not to get defensive when people try to give helpful suggestions. The probable answer to your problems was given within the first couple posts. People get frustrated when sound advice is ignored or dismissed. Most of the people here are just trying to help.


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## victorwol (Apr 28, 2012)

I also believe that if one start a topic like this one, saying that "The camera does not live to *MY* expectations" instead of " The camera does not live to the expectations" You might get some different reaction.... Is a little semantic difference, but that way you are not generalizing. You are just expressing your opinion of how the camera fels to you, and not telling everyone that the camera they bought is bad. Which can generate some hard feelings against your opinion.. 

Of course, the nature of forums, there will be always willing to bash anyone just for the sport :'(


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## Sallivres (Apr 28, 2012)

victorwol said:


> I also believe that if one start a topic like this one, saying that "The camera does not live to *MY* expectations" instead of " The camera does not live to the expectations" You might get some different reaction.... Is a little semantic difference, but that way you are not generalizing.



+1


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## nitsujwalker (Apr 28, 2012)

Sallivres said:


> victorwol said:
> 
> 
> > I also believe that if one start a topic like this one, saying that "The camera does not live to *MY* expectations" instead of " The camera does not live to the expectations" You might get some different reaction.... Is a little semantic difference, but that way you are not generalizing.
> ...



Either way, bashing the OP isn't the answer. Don't let the insults get to you man. Faceless internet members are brutal and willing to say things that they wouldn't say in person. Hopefully you stick around!


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## Northstar (Apr 28, 2012)

Dark...I'm interested in hearing about your next shoot after you've spent some more time with the 5d3. 

I can see from your posts that you care about your craft, have experience, and intelligence. I, and I think most people here, want to hear opinions/thoughts from people like you....good or bad(preferably good)...so we can all learn.

Let us know if some of the feedback helped (I'm sure you're also sifting through the AF section of the manual too)
More importantly, let us know what you learn about the AF ...so we can learn from you. (I know I need all the info/experience I can get with this AF)

thanks,
northstar


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## V8Beast (Apr 28, 2012)

DarkKnightNine said:


> One thing I have learned from living in Asia since I retired from the military is that western people can be abusive for no other reason than just wanting to be abusive.



I've been fortunate to experience many different cultures, and there is some truth to your observations. IMHO, Westerners, and particularly Americans, tend to get overly defensive and interpret simple observations as criticism. That's why there's such a backlash to a thread like yours. Even Brits that visit America will often comment on how thin-skinned their cross-Atlantic counterparts can be at times  I wouldn't take it too personally. 



> Not to mention the comment that almost all of you seem to overlook is that I spoke directly with Canon Execs and played with the camera literally three days before the camera's official release and even they told me it wasn't perfected yet.



I'm no expert when it comes to the world of manufacturing cameras, but I don't think a scenario like this is all that uncommon. IMHO, regardless of whether you're launching a new camera, car, phone or TV set, if your deadline is say 3/2/12, you will be working out last minute bugs until 11:59 pm on 3/1/12. 

I was on a public relations photo shoot for launch of the brand new 2012 Acura TL last year. I wasn't good enough to be the photog, merely the assistant, but it was an interesting experience nonetheless. In a typical PR shoot like this, a manufacturer will fly a photog in a few days before the car is unveiled to journalists, and have a bunch of PR shots taken for the media outlets to use, since they usually don't bring their own photographers. 

The two cars we were shooting were the only two 2012 Acura TLs in America at the time, and as soon as they got off the boat from Japan, they were shipped to our location. The dozen or so TLs that the journalists were supposed to drive in just two days were still in transit. Let's just say pre-production cars like this always have some flaws. The leather doesn't match, the GPS doesn't work, the shock valving might not be perfected, and the engine management calibrations may need further tweaks, just to give you a few examples. Mind you, this is just 1-2 months before the cars are ready to hit the showrooms, and just days before journalists will be picking them apart in their reviews. IMHO, there are a lot more things that can go wrong when designing a car from scratch than when designing a camera. 

Likewise, when I was on the press launch for the '05 Mustang many years ago, Ford mentioned that the cars were not yet emissions certified because they were still working on the engine programming. So they were basically letting journalists review cars that weren't even emissions legal, and Ford only had 1-2 months to fix the problem and get the cars certified by the EPA before their on-sale date. That's a rather major problem to say the least. 

Obviously, it would make much more sense to fix all the bugs well before a product launch, but time is money, especially in the corporate world. I'm not making excuses for Canon, but I doubt they're the only company out there that operates like this. Users have reported many teething issues affecting the D800 on the Nikon forums. None of them are major, but they seem far more annoying to be than a silly light leak that everyone is complaining about.


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## bycostello (Apr 28, 2012)

i reckon canon tested it before releasing it.... so...


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## Brymills (Apr 28, 2012)

The 1D iv still costs more than a 5D iii, so is it really a fair comparison? Test it against the 1D X and see what happens.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 28, 2012)

bycostello said:


> i reckon canon tested it before releasing it.... so...



Clearly their testing was insufficient. They should have taken a lot more shots with the lens cap on and the top LCD illuminated.


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## bkorcel (Apr 28, 2012)

Well with a topic such as that, who could resist!

I have been using it for sports, wildlife, low light, astrophotography and oh yes it has lived up to MY expectations. I fortunately have not experienced ANY of the issues others have reported and it's the serial "1" version. The AF functions are very overwhelming and to get the best out of the camera you need to experiment with the settings. For the first week it was hell. However once I realized the reasons why canon did things the way they did, my shots we're coming out fantastic.

Most importantly...the best thing is in fact the low noise floor at higher ISO's. This allows for much faster shutter speeds on action shots, particularly wildlife at low light levels. I pair the 5DIII up with a canon 300mm 2.8L with and without the 1.4X extender and I get great waterfowl flyby's. Unfortunately the camera still suffers from low contrast AF issues such as when a duck flies in front of similarly colored trees. None of the bodies will help with that though I suspect if I tinker a bit more with the tracking sensitivities I may be able to get some help in that. You have to give the camera SOMETHING to work with.

With that issue aside which I dont consider an issue with the 5DIII, the mark III is pretty superior over some of the other models...slight improvement over the Mark II but if I had a Mark II prior, I probobly would not have got the III. I came up from the 60D which is a fine camera for all around use but needed something more in full frame and extra AF capability for wildlife.

So while some may have high expectations, you need to come back to reality a bit. Work with tool and take advantage of some of the new capabilities and have a full understandning of how each setting effects the shot.


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## nitsujwalker (Apr 28, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> bycostello said:
> 
> 
> > i reckon canon tested it before releasing it.... so...
> ...



HA!!!! Funny stuff


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## DarkKnightNine (Apr 28, 2012)

victorwol said:


> I also believe that if one start a topic like this one, saying that "The camera does not live to *MY* expectations" instead of " The camera does not live to the expectations" You might get some different reaction.... Is a little semantic difference, but that way you are not generalizing. You are just expressing your opinion of how the camera fels to you, and not telling everyone that the camera they bought is bad. Which can generate some hard feelings against your opinion..
> 
> Of course, the nature of forums, there will be always willing to bash anyone just for the sport :'(



Yes you are quite right, perhaps I did overgeneralize the problems I was having with my particular camera. And after trying many different suggestions and tweaks, my camera is STILL not nailing focus, so I'm now thinking that maybe I got a lemon fresh off the assembly line. Sometimes it doesn't pay to be one of the first in line especially when it comes to new technology. I really do appreciate all of the help and advice you guys provided, even if this particular camera ends up being a bust for me. It certainly helps to know more about things like AFMA which I always thought was something you rarely did as it could screw things up more than help. I have discovered through this post that it is something that is regularly done on Canon camera/lens combos. That's one of many valuable and insightful golden nuggets I can now add to my ever growing knowledge base. So thanks guys.


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## Viggo (Apr 28, 2012)

Shot with LV... All my shots have the same difference between the 5d2 and 5d3... 

If this isn't fixable (and I seriously don't think so) I'm hoping the 1d X doesn't suffer under the same, or else I have just spent all that money downgrading my lenses....


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## japhoto (Apr 28, 2012)

Without any bashing or being a Canon fan, give Reikan FoCal a try.

AFMA is there for a reason and so that you wouldn't have to (necessarily) send your gear to Canon for focus adjustment. The reason behind all this being of course the tolerances in manufacturing.

With your MkIV and lenses you might have been lucky and the tolerances have been 0/0 or so small that they don't matter within the DOF. You instantly get bigger problems if say your MkIV has been -3 and your lenses (for arguments sake) from +2 to +4, but your MkIII is +4 so the problem is really visible now.

If the focus adjustment is off, there's no setting in the AF- menu that will make your photos sharper.

Just my 0.02$


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## bornshooter (Apr 28, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> bycostello said:
> 
> 
> > i reckon canon tested it before releasing it.... so...
> ...


are you serious?take a lot more shots with the lens cap on what kind of sad shit is this lol get out there and shoot in the real world not lens caps and charts the whole light leak issue is a non-issue completely blown out of proportion.Get out there and shoot your cameras are fine if you bought a 3000 camera to shoot lens caps then you are all idiots!


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## briansquibb (Apr 28, 2012)

japhoto said:


> If the focus adjustment is off, there's no setting in the AF- menu that will make your photos sharper.



That would be the one in the sharpness setting for each style?


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## Viggo (Apr 29, 2012)

japhoto said:


> Without any bashing or being a Canon fan, give Reikan FoCal a try.
> 
> AFMA is there for a reason and so that you wouldn't have to (necessarily) send your gear to Canon for focus adjustment. The reason behind all this being of course the tolerances in manufacturing.
> 
> ...



Can people please read the post and see that it is shot in LV=LIVE VIEW!!

I have spent more time with afma then a lot of people put together. I'm getting really annoyed people think that this softness is the users fault. I have seen more examples like mine showing the same exact thing.

I have never been lucky with my lenses, check out which lenses I own, and I can assure you that NONE of them have EVER been at 0 setting and worked.

I'm not a n00b.


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## japhoto (Apr 29, 2012)

Viggo said:


> japhoto said:
> 
> 
> > Without any bashing or being a Canon fan, give Reikan FoCal a try.
> ...



Sorry Viggo, but this answer wasn't for you, but for the OP.

I just had to post it after yours because you were faster


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## Viggo (Apr 29, 2012)

japhoto said:


> Viggo said:
> 
> 
> > japhoto said:
> ...



Okay, I'm sorry for taking it out on you then. I'm just pi$$ed that Canon screwed up and it's only me and a few other guys who seem to realize this isn't about the user, and however hard it is to believe, it is the camera and it has never been like that with another Canon, ever.... This reminds me of the 1d3 AF.....

The 5d3 is a spectacular camera, and I have been very excited about it long before buying it, and also very happy test shooting, but the softness really gets in the way of overly excitment and joy from using the camera.


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## japhoto (Apr 29, 2012)

Viggo said:


> japhoto said:
> 
> 
> > Viggo said:
> ...



No problem, but regarding your issue, you shot both of those photos with live-view and manual focus using 10x magnification?

If that's the issue, then it's not the AF-system at all. Either there's something wrong (maybe on just part of the cameras) or MkIII has a stronger AA filter (don't know if this is the case).


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 29, 2012)

bornshooter said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > bycostello said:
> ...



Seriously? We've locked horns what, half a dozen times, and you _still_ can't tell when I'm being sarcastic?  

Apparently, I need to use <sarcasm> tags on about 30% of my posts, just to make it obvious...


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 29, 2012)

japhoto said:


> If that's the issue, then it's not the AF-system at all. Either there's something wrong (maybe on just part of the cameras) or *MkIII has a stronger AA filter* (don't know if this is the case).



Canon has touted the reduced video moiré of the 5DIII, compared to the 5DII. IMO, the technically easiest way for them to accomplish that reduction is a stronger AA filter. 

@bornshooter - that's not sarcasm, just FYI.


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## GDub (Apr 29, 2012)

So can you make good prints?? It's AMAZING how anal photographers are!


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## mrmarks (Apr 29, 2012)

A common problem with shooters complaining of soft images is the AI servo 1st and 2nd image priority setting. Set it to Focus priority always!


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## Meh (Apr 29, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> bornshooter said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Listen, I'm dead serious here. Leave bornshooter alone and stop picking on him... he can't help the way he is.


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## Meh (Apr 29, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> japhoto said:
> 
> 
> > If that's the issue, then it's not the AF-system at all. Either there's something wrong (maybe on just part of the cameras) or *MkIII has a stronger AA filter* (don't know if this is the case).
> ...



Whew... I have to thank you neuro. I'm so glad you (and therefore I) decided on the 1DX instead of the 5D3.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 29, 2012)

Meh said:


> Listen, I'm dead serious here. Leave bornshooter alone and stop picking on him... he can't help the way he is.



Was that <sarcasm>, I honestly can't tell.... :


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## te4o (Apr 29, 2012)

Vigo, try another copy of a 5D3 with the same lens and try another lens with two different 5D3s if you can. LV again. Post the results please. Up till now I can't tell a difference between mark 2 and 3. I'll do the same as you did and give you feedback.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 29, 2012)

Meh said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > japhoto said:
> ...



Well, Canon has made the same 'reduced moiré' statement about the 1D X.


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## risc32 (Apr 29, 2012)

reduced from what, the 1dmk4 or? really, you know they would love to leave that out. Then they get a free pass to say anything they want.


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## RunAndGun (Apr 29, 2012)

bornshooter said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > bycostello said:
> ...



I'm still kinda new here, but I'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic...  8)


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## Viggo (Apr 29, 2012)

mrmarks said:


> A common problem with shooters complaining of soft images is the AI servo 1st and 2nd image priority setting. Set it to Focus priority always!



That is just stating something random. Please read the posts before answering.

And can people NOT owning a 5d3 stop commenting on what settings to use, you have clearly no idea what you're talking about and just shout out random stuff.

Please tell me how 1. and 2. priority have anything to do with the softeness I showed in my images shot with single shot LiveView af. Or the fact that the OP gets soft images, it has nothing to do with AF, because this AF just doesn't miss and it is by far the best Canon have ever done.


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## DavidRiesenberg (Apr 29, 2012)

The OP never AFMAd his lenses and was using Servo AI. In that case, both the suggestions are vaild.
As for your example, I am not seeing that slight softness in my photos. True, I don't have a 5D2 to do direct comparisons, but my 5D3 looks more like your 5D2 example than the 5D3 example.

edit: Could you post those RAW files as well? Or at least something with EXIF data?


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## Viggo (Apr 29, 2012)

DavidRiesenberg said:


> The OP never AFMAd his lenses and was using Servo AI. In that case, both the suggestions are vaild.
> As for your example, I am not seeing that slight softness in my photos. True, I don't have a 5D2 to do direct comparisons, but my 5D3 looks more like your 5D2 example than the 5D3 example.
> 
> edit: Could you post those RAW files as well? Or at least something with EXIF data?



That's why I started my own thread "5d3 still soft?".

Both those shots where shot with LV af, 135 L wide open at 1/200s and flash bounced at the roof. Took 5 shots with each camera, and the results were 100% consistent (as expected)

Can you please post a 5d3 raw like that, preferably of a barcode and text as it is very easy to see. I'm trying to find people that can show me they aren't soft or that they are. I want toknow if this is a issue regarding all 5d3's or just some of them.


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## DarkKnightNine (Apr 29, 2012)

DavidRiesenberg said:


> The OP never AFMAd his lenses and was using Servo AI. In that case, both the suggestions are vaild.
> As for your example, I am not seeing that slight softness in my photos. True, I don't have a 5D2 to do direct comparisons, but my 5D3 looks more like your 5D2 example than the 5D3 example.
> 
> edit: Could you post those RAW files as well? Or at least something with EXIF data?



Don't make assumptions about how I shoot based on what someone else said. I hardly ever use AI Servo on any of my Canon bodies and never said I did. Ninety percent of the time I'm shooting with One Shot AI. Just because I'm humble in my capacity to accept advice, don't make me out to be a noob, I'm far from it. I've shot everything from fashion shows for Christian Dior to Mixed Martial Arts K-1 Tournaments. I know how to shoot and I know how to set up my camera. It was just an adjustment going from a 1D body to a 5D body especailly with this new AF System. I guess I was expecting too much. A lot of people posting here seem to be coming from a XXD or XXXD body so of course there will be different expectations. My girlfriend shoots with a 60D so I'm sure if she saw the images coming off a 5D body she'd think they were awesome even if they were a little soft because compared to a 60D, they probably would still look slightly better. 

In addition, people assume because they know every technical detail of a camera that it makes them good photographers. I know people who can teach Canon engineers about camera tech but still can't shoot worth a darn because they have no imagination when it comes to image creation. No I didn't know I had to AFMA every lens in my bag to work with all my different bodies. However, just because I didn't know that one fact doesn't make me a noob, if anything it makes me wonder what the heck Canon engineers do when they design this equipment if we as consumers have to do our own QA.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 29, 2012)

DarkKnightNine said:


> ... it makes me wonder what the heck Canon engineers do when they design this equipment if we as consumers have to do our own QA.



FWIW, ever wondered why there's a CPS? Initially, it got its start as a service for pros to send in their collection of bodies and lenses and have them calibrated to one another. AFMA allows you to do that yourself rather than ship everything off.


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## DavidRiesenberg (Apr 29, 2012)

DarkKnightNine said:


> Don't make assumptions about how I shoot based on what someone else said. I hardly ever use AI Servo on any of my Canon bodies and never said I did. Ninety percent of the time I'm shooting with One Shot AI.


You mentioned setting up "Case 5". If I'm not mistaken, those settings apply only to AI Servo. That's why I mentioned the 1st / 2nd image priority setting in an earlier post.



> Just because I'm humble in my capacity to accept advice, don't make me out to be a noob, I'm far from it.


I am not assuming anything. All I've said and suggested in this thread are possible solutions to the problem you were facing. Since I wasn't there with you when you shot the images, I have no way of knowing which settings and options you already checked / set. That's simply the nature of troubleshooting an issue online.

But to tell you the truth, I'm not so sure that you are looking for an answer that could solve the softness issue. You seem much more content in simply blaming Canon and the camera.


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## DarkKnightNine (Apr 29, 2012)

DavidRiesenberg said:


> DarkKnightNine said:
> 
> 
> > Don't make assumptions about how I shoot based on what someone else said. I hardly ever use AI Servo on any of my Canon bodies and never said I did. Ninety percent of the time I'm shooting with One Shot AI.
> ...



That's not true at all. Actually I have taken the advice I learned here and put it into practice but it still hasn't solved the soft focusing problem for me... yet (still haven't given up). The only logical conclusion would be that there might be something wrong with the camera. As I believe this advice will serve me well in the future, I was extremely grateful to everyone for their input and I do believe I said thank many times to people who weren't being condescending and were genuinely trying to help (which admittedly that seemed like most people here).

I think the opposite is true, some people were so quick to jump to the conclusion that I was incompetent or didn't know how to use my camera rather that allowing for the off chance that I might have gotten a bad copy. I think in these forums we have to stop assuming people's abilities when trying to help someone. If you look at any of my past posts on other subjects, when I'm giving advice to people you'll never see me talking down or assuming they're a noob. Perhaps they may not have known that particular bit of info. I was providing, but that didn't make them an idiot.


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## DarkKnightNine (Apr 29, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> DarkKnightNine said:
> 
> 
> > ... it makes me wonder what the heck Canon engineers do when they design this equipment if we as consumers have to do our own QA.
> ...



Yes I know about CPS, but the conditions for joining in Japan are outrageous! You have to own an ungodly amount of equipment to even submit an application. I don't know of anyone who owns the amount of gear they quoted me and I know it's different for the U.S. and Europe. It's weird that they screw over their own people locally. I tried to apply through the U.S. website and was referred back to the local Japanese CPS so there's no chance of me joining unless I hit the lotto or I convince my GF to pickup my family and move back east after living in Japan for over 20 years.


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## japhoto (Apr 29, 2012)

DarkKnightNine said:


> Ninety percent of the time I'm shooting with One Shot AI.



Which one do you use when not using AI Servo, "One shot" or "AI Focus" (your One Shot AI didn't make this clear)?

If it's AI Focus that you're using, that might be the issue.


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## DarkKnightNine (Apr 29, 2012)

japhoto said:


> DarkKnightNine said:
> 
> 
> > Ninety percent of the time I'm shooting with One Shot AI.
> ...



I meant One Shot AF. I've never used AI Focus on a paid shoot. Experimented with it a few times when the 7D first came out, but would never use it when an agency was paying me to come back with usable shots. I shoot "One Shot" 90% of the time and occasionally use "AI Servo".


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## briansquibb (Apr 29, 2012)

I use Servo as default


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## rhommel (Apr 30, 2012)

i apologize if this has already been suggested. but have you tried using a different 5D3 body and see if you are still having the same issues. I do own 5D2 and 5D3, I shoot weddings and I can say that you can't even compare 5D2 on 5D3's AF specially on lowlight situations..


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## rhommel (Apr 30, 2012)

i know the title was already discussed that it should be 'YOUR' expectations but I just wanted to post Ryan's REAL photos from a REAL wedding...

http://www.ryanbrenizer.com/2012/03/a-nikon-users-review-of-the-canon-5d-mark-iii/

so i don't think the camera is at fault, knowing the camera can produce these kinds of images


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## Bosman (Apr 30, 2012)

Dark Night,
If you cannot get the 5dm3 to work for you getting a 1dx will really frustrate you unless your camera is in fact bad for some reason. Why do i say that? They have the exact same AF system cept a few little extras. This is not me being condescending but sharing philosophy as well as fact, please let me share while understanding you also know these things but just to bring it out. As with specialty lenses, you give up on some things to have the best of other things, the same with cameras. For instance the 851.2 which i did own up til a few years back, you cannot expect that creature of a lens to operate the way your other lenses do because it is a tricky dof and it is slow and you had better found a good area of contrast to get it right and shoot multiples.

The more i look at settings and test things i find the settings are very specific. Each setting isn't just there to offer diff options, they are literally major changes in how your focus system responds to input. Like spot focus is a bad idea unless you literally are trying to shoot thru something to focus on something else. To be honest if i had owned a 7d like most of the people I hire shoot I would be ahead of the game in understanding how these new settings work in application. I have set out to understand as much as humanly possible about this AF system and as a result have no doubt i will be able to maximize it for many diff shooting situations. While some would like straight forward focus point systems like those who shoot 1D series cameras know you can dial that camera in to the n'th degree to get very specific results, to be able to do that on a 5d is a dream and yet some settings missed leave me wanting but not to the point of needing a 1dx.

Here are some of the resources i have been combing that may help you get the results you are looking for.
This one is canons 1dx Af PDF guide which is pretty much almost exact to anything you can do on the 5d3
http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2012/1dx_guidebook.shtml?categoryId=12
for direct download of the PDF
http://downloads.canon.com/CDLC/EOS_1DX_AF_Guide_CDLC.pdf

These are from the Canon Learning center
http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2012/5d3_multiple_af_points.shtml
http://learn.usa.canon.com/resources/articles/2011/1dx_af_config_article.shtml

I am hoping you can find yourself working with great success in the near future as you learn the new system!


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## Bosman (May 4, 2012)

I guess this topic is dead, nothing learned or enough to get better than expected expectations.


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## briansquibb (May 4, 2012)

Bosman said:


> I guess this topic is dead, nothing learned or enough to get better than expected expectations.



Somepeople live the dream and it comes as a shock when you wake up and smell the coffee 

I suspect personal expectations are always higher than reality - we always see the upsides and not the downsides


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## rj79in (May 5, 2012)

Bosman said:


> I guess this topic is dead, nothing learned or enough to get better than expected expectations.



The topic may be dead but you may not be entirely correct in saying that "nothing learned". It depends on what you are looking at. I find these online discussions (save the ranting and trolling) quite informative. There are numerous times I find information that is useful I probably wouldn't have thought I needed


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## wickidwombat (May 5, 2012)

Dark knight what you are describing sounds exactly what i was experiencing with my first copy which i took back
the new copy i got today is performing considerably better still early but my initial feeling is that this one is spot on

just out of interest do you have access to a kenko tele converter you can try on your camera? if it fails to work I suspect you have a faulty AF unit like mine had this new copy works with my kenko TC and looks like its nailing focus wide open
only tested with the 70-200 so far but it is looking good

Ignore all the user error rubbish, I did, (although it is frustrating to read when all you are trying to do is trouble shoot) and now i have a second copy to check against I am certain the first one I had was faulty


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## Bosman (May 6, 2012)

rj79in said:


> Bosman said:
> 
> 
> > I guess this topic is dead, nothing learned or enough to get better than expected expectations.
> ...



Yea, it was a bit of a blanket stement sorry bout that. I guess I was hoping to hear how things are going for Dark night and if any answers to his issue have come to the forefront. I want to hear how things got better with a new approach to the system. This could be helpful for newer 5dm3 owners to find and how it was first this but with some understanding you can have so much more. Thats what i driving at.


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## Michael7 (May 6, 2012)

DarkKnightNine said:


> (even then, I would question the focusing system as it seems to be a little soft).



Reminds me of the 7D. I don't like these mushy images Canon cameras are producing (the 5D II is not among them).


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## 1982chris911 (May 6, 2012)

DarkKnightNine said:


> DavidRiesenberg said:
> 
> 
> > The OP never AFMAd his lenses and was using Servo AI. In that case, both the suggestions are vaild.
> ...




http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/article_pages/cameras/1ds3_af_micoadjustment.html

You could try this small test (set up is quite easy) and see if the lenses are seriously out of focus. With MF you should get tack sharp results, if the AF results are not as good the lenses need to be corrected via Micro adjustment. I did that with all my lenses when I got the 5D MK III however so far all seemed to be fine. With the 5d MK II and 7D I needed to adjust them...


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## wickidwombat (May 6, 2012)

1982chris911 said:


> DarkKnightNine said:
> 
> 
> > DavidRiesenberg said:
> ...


If the Af unit is faulty then AFMA does no good either I spent a significant amount of time trying to sort it out and it just kept going all over the place. I even posted all the raws from the testing up here and got all my lenses spot on using AFMA at 2x focal distance then go out and shoot and focus was all over the place
this replacement unit looks to not have any of the issues i experienced with the first one so far


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## Marsu42 (May 6, 2012)

deviousrlm said:


> Here you can see some 30+ shows I shot w/ my 7D and then the 4 most recent with the 5DMKIII and see the difference. The only new lens I got with the 5DMKIII was the 16-35, which is obviously great as well (I used the 10-22 on the 7D). Otherwise, all the lenses were pretty much the same.



To me it seems the photog really makes the difference, a preview size I cannot see a difference between your (great!) old and new shots - but I guess the 5d3 just got you more kept shots. Concerning the 16-35: What other lenses do you use for these shots?


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## 1982chris911 (May 6, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> 1982chris911 said:
> 
> 
> > DarkKnightNine said:
> ...



The good thing about this test is that it is quite easy to do and you can spot the problem (e.g. all lenses backfocus or frontfocus or they are off in both directions). When the MF does not make the image any sharper than AF (no adjustment needed) ...meaning if you don't get a super sharp image with MF when it locks absolutely sharp on the display in liveview (max moire patterns) then I would start to think about a serious problem with the cam. if the AF is just generally a bit short or long you can maybe compensate in AFMA - even when all lenses go into the same direction it does not mean that the AF module is necessarily broken only maybe needs more adjustment ...


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## revup67 (May 7, 2012)

Numerous good points raised throughout the current 9 pages of this thread. I have found out of the box anything doesn't mean it's the way it is suppose to be. I've brought new lenses such as the 400mm 5.6 L out of box to Canon Svc. Center..it was off. I baby the 7D and after 6 months said to myself, I paid for the warranty go use it and get the unit cleaned..sure enough they found an issue with the AF mechanism and replaced it. Point being here, if you are not happy with your results but others are, perhaps your lens or camera do need service..new or not. I wound up buying a Lens Align kit from michaeltapesdesign.com and a WhiBal as well, and found several lenses front or back focusing. The kit made a big difference and now all are spot on with any lenses I had in question. Lenses don't permanently stay aligned as well. They should be checked regularly.


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## Northstar (May 16, 2012)

> I wound up buying a Lens Align kit from michaeltapesdesign.com and a WhiBal as well, and found several lenses front or back focusing.



when using one of these kits, how long does it take per lens?


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## neuroanatomist (May 16, 2012)

Northstar said:


> > I wound up buying a Lens Align kit from michaeltapesdesign.com and a WhiBal as well, and found several lenses front or back focusing.
> 
> 
> 
> when using one of these kits, how long does it take per lens?



Takes me about 30 minutes per focal length tested using the LensAlign Pro. FoCal is not that much faster - the difference is that I can do something else during the calibration.


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