# More Canon EOS 6D Mark II Talk [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Apr 27, 2015)

```
A specification list for the EOS 6D Mark II has come about. It’s pretty much the <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2015/04/canon-eos-6d-mark-ii-cr1/" target="_blank">complete opposite of what we posted a week or so ago</a>.</p>
<ul>
<li>28MP</li>
<li>6 fps</li>
<li>ISO 100 – 102400 (expandable to 204800)</li>
<li>new AF system (but not the same as on 5DS)</li>
<li>98% viewfinder coverage</li>
<li>Single SD card slot</li>
<li>WiFi, NFC, and GPS</li>
<li>small improvements for video features</li>
</ul>
<p>The rumor above suggests that Canon wouldn’t release a full frame camera with the same resolution as the Rebel series cameras, which are now at 24mp. We posted that the EOS 6D Mark II would retain its own sensor and would have a lower megapixel count than the predicted 28mp in the upcoming Canon EOS 5D Mark IV.</p>
<p>I personally believe consumers of full frame DSLRs in this day and age understand that not all pixels are created equal. I don’t believe megapixel count is part of the marketing strategies for DSLRs anymore, unless you’re talking about the high resolution 50mp+ camera.</p>
<p>Availability of the EOS 6D Mark II is said to be early 2016.</p>
<p>Source: [<a href="http://www.canonwatch.com/cw3-canon-eos-6d-mark-ii-talk-28mp-announcement-q1-2016/" target="_blank">CanonWatch</a>]</p>
```


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## Chaitanya (Apr 27, 2015)

Sounds like a good upgrade over 6D. the Af needs to be more spread out than orignal and have more than 9points. also dual sd card slots would be useful but since its DumbCanon dont think it would have that.


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## Maximilian (Apr 27, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> I personally believe consumers of full frame DSLRs in this day and age understand that not all pixels are created equal. I don’t believe megapixel count is part of the marketing strategies for DSLRs anymore, unless you’re talking about the high resolution 50mp+ camera.


I was hoping that, too. But it seems not to reach all consumers. Maybe just a few.
And talking about "_not all pixels are created equal_" is not yet giving answers about how much Canon is able or willing to create better pixels.


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## K (Apr 27, 2015)

Single Card Slot = I'm not buying it.

[RANT ON]

Not going to reward Canon for their intentional crippling of the camera. $2K camera with a single slot is insulting. And I'm not going to a 5D4 just for that feature. 5D4 is going to have to be potent on many other features to justify. If it isn't, and the 6D2 is a single slot - I'm on hold with Canon. I'm willing to wait one more generation for these basic features. If not, then I liquidate my L lenses and move on to Nikon, who by then will probably have updated some of their key glass - and their bodies will be even that much more feature rich than they are today.

What is Canon thinking in this marketplace after having released those poor fiscal results?

It will be mid-*2016*, it will be a nearly $*2,100* camera - and it will have* ONE SLOT*. What a joke. But hey, if the suckers buy it - more power to Canon I suppose. 

[RANT OFF]


Improved AF could mean anything. From the same number of AF points, just with more cross types, to more AF points entirely. I think on this Canon will give something better. Probably the 19pt system out of necessity. 19 points would be the minimum acceptable. 11 point all cross type would just turn people off. 61 point would be a big surprise and a pleasant one. That's not happening though. That kind of coverage is just too good.

28MP is nice. Make more use of the the very sharp, and recently released L lenses. Seems like a really great sweet spot between resolution and file size / speed.

ISO might be a stop better. That is very welcome.

Logically, it makes more sense for the sensor specs to come true than any others - since Canon is most likely to use the same or similarly new sensor as the 5D4, and that is also rumored to be 28MP. Thus, the DR, ISO and all the rest (processing aside) should in theory be the same - assuming Canon doesn't software cripple any of that. Judging from the past - Canon isn't afraid to release a cheaper camera with IQ as good or maybe even better than a more expensive camera. Canon instead, chooses to neuter their cameras in other ways. Sensor isn't one of them.

One would hope the 6D2 would have the various other software features - Anti Flicker, customizable menu, enhanced viewfinder, distortion correction and all that from the 7D2 and 5DS. If it is missing any of that, again - it is another Canon slap in the face, you can't have it because we want you to spend $4,000 type of message. But, like the original 6D, Canon did omit several software features. Nothing major though - the absence of these made no sense, but at the same time they weren't crippling.. So this is new territory - since there are some new features that really do make a difference now.

No Dual-Pixel is expected. That feature is key to separating it from other cameras that are being geared to appeal to videographers. 


Still early, we shall see. Thanks for the update!


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## Hellish (Apr 27, 2015)

Not buying without 4k!!!


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## Lee Jay (Apr 27, 2015)

So, 5DIV announcement in August/September, availability in November/December,
1Dx II announcement in November/December, availability in early 2016,
6DII announcement in January/February, availability in early 2016?

Sounds like a lot of new stuff all at once.


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## dolina (Apr 27, 2015)

Lee Jay said:


> So, 5DIV announcement in August/September, availability in November/December,
> 1Dx II announcement in November/December, availability in early 2016,
> 6DII announcement in January/February, availability in early 2016?
> 
> Sounds like a lot of new stuff all at once.


Feels about right...


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## Bernard (Apr 27, 2015)

K, why is "single slot" such a big issue? As far as I'm concerned, dual card slots are a throwback to the days of unreliable, low capacity memory cards. Some professionals might want dual slots when covering "no reshoot" events, but I'm OK with skipping that feature on Canon's low-cost full frame camera.


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## 9VIII (Apr 27, 2015)

28MP is fine, more is better unless you shoot a lot of high ISO.
I would like a 50MP 6D (or a 5Ds with wi-fi).
With 8K being the eventual resolution people will be using for multimedia, anything 8000 pixels wide will basically be seen as "top quality" for the rest of forever. Below that and people are going to see cropping and have that nagging feeling that it's not "the best".


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## JohnBran (Apr 27, 2015)

it will be interesting to see at what price level it will come in. where i am Nikon D750 is 2000 euro. By the time this camera comes out i expect D750 to be about 1500 euro. 
Question is can 6DMk2 deliver better low light, better and faster AF then D750.
There is no way Canon will ever match Nikon on features, thats given but imho they need good AF in this one. 

This is the camera i will be waiting to purchase but only if AF is better and it's better in low light . I'll wait and see . I have sold all my lenses except 2 so it will be easier to switch to Nikon if this one is also badly crippled by Canon (for the price you are paying).


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## Zv (Apr 27, 2015)

Bernard said:


> K, why is "single slot" such a big issue? As far as I'm concerned, dual card slots are a throwback to the days of unreliable, low capacity memory cards. Some professionals might want dual slots when covering "no reshoot" events, but I'm OK with skipping that feature on Canon's low-cost full frame camera.



Exactly. Dunno what all this hoo ha is about dual slots on the 6D. It's a low end FF for hobbyists and enthusiasts. If you're a pro who relies on paid work then you really ought to have a 5D MkIII. Otherwise you're clearly just being a cheap-o and then complaining about lack of features. Buy the right gear for the job.


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## sanj (Apr 27, 2015)

Zv said:


> Bernard said:
> 
> 
> > K, why is "single slot" such a big issue? As far as I'm concerned, dual card slots are a throwback to the days of unreliable, low capacity memory cards. Some professionals might want dual slots when covering "no reshoot" events, but I'm OK with skipping that feature on Canon's low-cost full frame camera.
> ...



Agree.


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## JohanCruyff (Apr 27, 2015)

dolina said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > So, 5DIV announcement in August/September, availability in November/December,
> ...


Announcment dates (source: Wikipedia):
1Dx: October 2011
5D3: March 2012
6D: September 2012
3 New FF in less than a year is a good result, but Sony is delivering 3 New FF bodies every quarter.


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## mnclayshooter (Apr 27, 2015)

sanj said:


> Zv said:
> 
> 
> > Bernard said:
> ...



+1... anyone ever remember the good old days of shooting dual-roll 35mm? neither do I.


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## dolina (Apr 27, 2015)

Why settle for single? Why not 1 dozen car slots? I demand 1 dozen MMC card slots!


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## facedodge (Apr 27, 2015)

I want a swivel screen.


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## K (Apr 27, 2015)

Bernard said:


> K, why is "single slot" such a big issue? As far as I'm concerned, dual card slots are a throwback to the days of unreliable, low capacity memory cards. Some professionals might want dual slots when covering "no reshoot" events, but I'm OK with skipping that feature on Canon's low-cost full frame camera.




First of all, dual card slot is not a throw back of any kind whatsoever. It is an advancement.

Secondly, While memory cards are always getting more reliable - NONE are perfectly reliable. I could have said the same thing over 10 years ago. "Buy the latest high quality memory cards, they are more reliable than the older legacy cards for a few years ago and don't worry about it" - but of course, the best cards bought today do fail from time to time. 

Thirdly, it is a matter of value. For LESS money, the competition (NIKON), is offering 2-slots on their FF entry camera. Why shouldn't we expect the same from Canon? How much is Canon saving us by omitting the 2nd slot? Obviously nothing, because Nikon has it and is already cheaper. This isn't about saving us money - this is about crippling cameras as part of a petty product segmentation strategy.


Is Canon doing us some kind of favor by omitting it? We've ruled out cost savings.

Better yet, can anyone here come up with any real negative to having 2 card slots? I don't think anyone can even find a single negative. Zero. Even the size/weight issue is debunked, since the D7100 is smaller than 6D and it has 2 slots.

However, there are a lot of benefits to two slots.

At best, all one can say in favor of one slot is - "I don't care, I don't need two" ..and that is fine. However, having it doesn't harm a thing, only helps - and for the money spent, it ought to be offered.


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## K (Apr 27, 2015)

> If you're a pro who relies on paid work then you really ought to have a 5D MkIII. Otherwise you're clearly just being a cheap-o and then complaining about lack of features. Buy the right gear for the job.



Precisely what Canon thinks too. 

But the truth is - dual card slot isn't just for pros. 

I'd hate to lose photos on a high dollar vacation on the other side of the world, or a precious moment with my children. It is for anyone who wants to ensure their photos are safe. Yes, that does include a large segment of pros. 

But again, Nikon offers it on the D7100 and D7200. Is this a pro camera? Are D610 sales being hurt? How about the D610, it has 2 slots, is it killing the D810?


"Buy the right gear for the job" ...excellent advice. And kind of my point all along. The right gear for the job won't be Canon's gear. Because if data redundancy is critical, $3,700 is the entry point for Canon. $1,400 is the entry point for Nikon. That's full frame. For crop, it's about $1,000 Nikon, $1,800 Canon.

Cheap-O is not me. It is Canon, who charges over $2,000 for a camera and doesn't put a second SD slot in it. With the dirt cheap price of memory card interfaces, Canon is being real stingy here.




> +1... anyone ever remember the good old days of shooting dual-roll 35mm? neither do I.




That is an awful, short-sighted comparison for sake of a poor argument - since 35mm film does not just fail. Surely, if you accidentally expose it. But that is user error as would be formatting your memory card, or dropping / damaging it. Memory cards just fail without any user interaction or error involved.

On its own, a 35mm roll does not.





On another note, when I argue in favor of Canon offering a feature - why does a flood of people come out with snide comments against me? It is bizarre. Is it some kind of blasphemy to expect a simple feature? Why all the apologists defending Canon? Are these Canon employees or something? Does Canon need defending? Are they worthy of it? Has Canon been unjustifiably wronged or something by a consumer seeking a feature and calling them out on it?

Strange indeed.


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## Zv (Apr 27, 2015)

K said:


> Bernard said:
> 
> 
> > K, why is "single slot" such a big issue? As far as I'm concerned, dual card slots are a throwback to the days of unreliable, low capacity memory cards. Some professionals might want dual slots when covering "no reshoot" events, but I'm OK with skipping that feature on Canon's low-cost full frame camera.
> ...



Oh I'm sorry is the D7100 a full frame camera? 

There are numerous things that can fail - camera, lens, battery etc so is having an extra card slot really gonna guarantee 100% reliability? No. Probably not. 

Don't you think, in a way (feel free to disagree) that by creating two card slots the manufacturer is saying that they have less faith in their hardware. I know they can't control memory card quality control but they can make solid card slots and good firmware that reduces the chance of failure. 

Now, who do you trust more, honestly, with quality control? Don't you think Nikon NEED that extra slot now? <totally joking there!>


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## siegsAR (Apr 27, 2015)

Looking all good!

Fwiw, I just hope the af system would be marginally better than the current one and not just "new".


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## K (Apr 27, 2015)

Zv said:


> There are numerous things that can fail - camera, lens, battery etc so is having an extra card slot really gonna guarantee 100% reliability? No. Probably not.




Certainly anything can fail. But a card failure can and does lose photos, many times of which cannot be replaced at all, or at least, not replaced without a lot of time and expense.

A lens failing doesn't cause the photos I've taken to be gone forever. Bad shutter doesn't cause the photos I've taken to be gone forever. 

Camera failures, assuming one body, causes you to lose what you might of had. Card failures causes you to lose what you did have. 




> Don't you think, in a way (feel free to disagree) that by creating two card slots the manufacturer is saying that they have less faith in their hardware. I know they can't control memory card quality control but they can make solid card slots and good firmware that reduces the chance of failure.



No. 

Canon uses dual card slots in the 5DS, 5D3, 7D2 and their flagships. Does this mean they have no faith in the quality of their top of the line camera hardware? 

Because no matter how incredibly good they make the card slot, firmware and whatnot - nothing Canon ever does can stop a memory card from going bad. The best Canon can do is, create a card slot that is of high quality to reduce or eliminate the chance that the camera itself induces card failure. This is basic function of creating a memory card interface, and something they've already done.

Canon admits the fact that they can't control the quality of memory cards by putting two slots in their higher end cameras, but they omit them from many other medium level cameras whose price, in my opinion, should justify 2 slots. Nikon D610 - two slots. 

At Full Frame prices, dual card slots ought to be a mandatory feature.




> Now, who do you trust more, honestly, with quality control? Don't you think Nikon NEED that extra slot now? <totally joking there!>



Nikon quality control is nothing to admire.


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## nightscape123 (Apr 27, 2015)

These specs would make a worthy upgrade over the 6D. I'd buy this camera. Though I expect at least 19 AF points. If Canon's $500 entry level crop camera can get 19 then so can it's $2100 FF. A second memory card slot would also be nice, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me.


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## Intel478 (Apr 27, 2015)

sanj said:


> Zv said:
> 
> 
> > Bernard said:
> ...



Disagree.

Dual card slots are also useful for storing more pictures on less expensive cards that you perhaps already own.
And to store raw and jpeg on different cards. Or video and stills on separate cards. Etc.

Now the right tool for the job for me as an event and wedding photographer is having to carry as little weight as possible generating the best results.
Since this is not sports I do not need the advanced autofocus system of the 5D3 and also not the weight.
I do need the low light center point of the 6D and for parties a WiFi uplink to the venue's screens for live pictures.

Therefore you cannot call me a cheap-o and to me 6D with dual cards slots is in fact what I want for my job.


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## Crosswind (Apr 27, 2015)

Hellish said:


> Not buying without 4k!!!



Not buying without tilt-able display!


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## Adelino (Apr 27, 2015)

Bernard said:


> K, why is "single slot" such a big issue? As far as I'm concerned, dual card slots are a throwback to the days of unreliable, low capacity memory cards. Some professionals might want dual slots when covering "no reshoot" events, but I'm OK with skipping that feature on Canon's low-cost full frame camera.



I agree. There is a difference between crippling a product by disabling features that already exist and trying to save money, space, weight by not adding a feature. Physical features drive up cost. For an enthusiast camera it should be kept simple and inexpensive. Software, on the other hand, should always be available at the highest levels otherwise that is intentionally downgrading the product to drive sales to a more expensive product which leaves a bad taste in consumers camera bag. If it costs next to nothing add it if it can save money on a price point item delete it. Happy customers and big profits.

But I also agree that dual card slots are always better than one.


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## Zv (Apr 27, 2015)

Salesman: Can I help you with anything?

Consumer: Yeah, I'm looking to buy my first DSLR but can't decide which one to get. They all seem similar. 

Salesman: I recommend this one as it has more features such a dual card slots. 

Consumer: Why would I need two card slots?

Salesman: Just as a back up in case one fails. 

Consumer: Faill? Why would it fail??! Is there something wrong with the camera? 

But seriously how did we survive without this feature before? What with all the card failures and what not. 

Yes the 5D3/7DII/1DX have two but that isn't only for redundancy but for extra capacity and for writing different types of files to the cards. As someone mentioned. That is a a pro feature. Average joe doesn't need two slots. I am fairly certain he can get another picture of his cat if he just times it right!


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 27, 2015)

mnclayshooter said:


> anyone ever remember the good old days of shooting dual-roll 35mm? neither do I.



Yeah, but the roll in back always seemed underexposed. If only we'd had the technology for a 5-stop push back then, I'd have had two copies of every frame.


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## MiamiC70 (Apr 27, 2015)

I work in technology field better part of 25 years and I have to say in the last 10 years I don't think I have seen a "legitimate" good quality tier one vendor SD card fail. I have seen that have been washed and dried inadvertently and worked just fine. So, dual slot is just not a big deal given the capacity of cards and reliability. That said if you buy the cheapest no name crap then you may have issues as you get what you pay for. Me I use Sandisk or Transcend higher end cards and buy 2.


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## preppyak (Apr 27, 2015)

Crosswind said:


> Not buying without tilt-able display!


Man I wish Canon would get on board with this. I really cant see a reason not to include one...the 6D body isnt even well weather-sealed, so, its not like it would cause issues like it might on the shell of the 5Dx and 1Dx cameras.

I dont want to have to kill my phone and camera battery to get an easily viewable display from tough angles. Or buy a separate viewfinder I have to lug around. And it cant be an expensive item, as even the cheap entry cameras have them


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## KiagiJ (Apr 27, 2015)

sanj said:


> Zv said:
> 
> 
> > Bernard said:
> ...



I'm a paid pro and the 6D is the right gear for the job! If the job is low light ambient work that is, my night party photography is cleaner in noise quality than the 5D3 and focuses in darker light with the middle focus point over the 5D3. Combined with the Sigma 50mm 1.4 Art lens it's an amazing low light combo I love it  no need for flash most of the time

It's a shame the 6D2 may be 24-28mp as this may result in the same noise performance as the 6D's 20mp sensor (improved sensor and processor technology in the 6D2 but less light reaching each pixel than before so they probably cancel eachother out). I hope they keep it at 20mp to continue the 6D line having great low light capability as obviously fewer megapixels produce cleaner high ISO images


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## Lee Jay (Apr 27, 2015)

MiamiC70 said:


> I work in technology field better part of 25 years and I have to say in the last 10 years I don't think I have seen a "legitimate" good quality tier one vendor SD card fail. I have seen that have been washed and dried inadvertently and worked just fine. So, dual slot is just not a big deal given the capacity of cards and reliability. That said if you buy the cheapest no name crap then you may have issues as you get what you pay for. Me I use Sandisk or Transcend higher end cards and buy 2.



In the last 10 years I've has one CF card and one SD card fail, both Sandisk. Sandisk was solid in its support in both instances.

Neither card was mishandled.


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## JohnBran (Apr 27, 2015)

Zv said:


> Yes the 5D3/7DII/1DX have two but that isn't only for redundancy but for extra capacity and for writing different types of files to the cards. As someone mentioned. That is a a pro feature. Average joe doesn't need two slots. I am fairly certain he can get another picture of his cat if he just times it right!



Hehehe, i don't know about your village but on my end "average joe" does not spend 2K+ euro on camera. And when i'm spending that amount of hard earned cash i want value.
Just like Richard Gere in Pretty Woman: We are going to be spending an obscene amount of money in here. So we're going to need a lot more help sucking up to us!!!


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## applecider (Apr 27, 2015)

If the refresh is indeed a 28 MP camera with at least the same and maybe slightly better high iso performance then Id be very happy. This also speaks to the possibility that the 5d4 and dxii could have somewhere around 28 MP and still maintain the high iso performance. Now getting processors and cards that can write fast enough to get frame rates and buffers up to 10-14 fps and deeper than 10 (5d4) or 30(1Dxii) is another story.

Why doesn't someone use the two card slots to support a raided volume that could get write speeds on cards to 300MB/sec? Now that would be a good use of dual slots.... Granted with a more complicated and thus like to fail easier structure, but the camera could write the raided images to a single card during idle time so that card reads would not require a raided read capability.

Otherwise I think a single slot is Ok in this entry level full frame. K if you think otherwise please name what feature dual slots support that single slots don't. (OK maybe magic lantern firmware on one slot but your feature that needs dual slots is......


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## Big_Ant_TV_Media (Apr 27, 2015)

6fps smh yess thats an insult your barely be able too shoot spots with that lol
28mp is good if they do 19-30 AF points spread out the right way that would be good
if they add DPAF too finally be able too use the 24-105 stm lens tech and other STM lenses more power too them
4k is not a must good 720-1080p 24-30fps video is needed
even better build quality also anti flicker
hope its a decent winner


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## Proscribo (Apr 27, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Or persist with Canon's current lacking designs?


It can't be current lacking design if it's 28MP (as there is currently no canon FF 28MP sensors). ;D


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## Mdshirajum (Apr 27, 2015)

With all these defending, I'm pretty sure Canon is paying employees to post here. That's just sad. I'm on the fence about switching from Canon. And this is just making the decision easier, unfortunately. 

I do not understand when a consumer wants a feature, why another 'consumer' will oppose that! Pity a company like Canon has to adopt such practise.


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## Random Orbits (Apr 27, 2015)

Mdshirajum said:


> With all these defending, I'm pretty sure Canon is paying employees to post here. That's just sad. I'm on the fence about switching from Canon. And this is just making the decision easier, unfortunately.
> 
> I do not understand when a consumer wants a feature, why another 'consumer' will oppose that! Pity a company like Canon has to adopt such practise.



So you're going to switch before anything gets released and based on a rumor? More features equals more cost. Few will get the total set of features they want at this price point. Wait for what is released and then make your decision... or switch on rumor. The decision is yours.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 27, 2015)

Mdshirajum said:


> With all these defending, I'm pretty sure Canon is paying employees to post here. That's just sad. I'm on the fence about switching from Canon. And this is just making the decision easier, unfortunately.
> 
> I do not understand when a consumer wants a feature, why another 'consumer' will oppose that! Pity a company like Canon has to adopt such practise.



And you registered just to tell us that? Are you perhaps a Nikon troll-for-hire?


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## Mdshirajum (Apr 27, 2015)

Random Orbits said:


> So you're going to switch before anything gets released and based on a rumor? More features equals more cost. Few will get the total set of features they want at this price point. Wait for what is released and then make your decision... or switch on rumor. The decision is yours.



I'm a long time Canon user, wedding photographer and a tech enthusiast. I was happy with my extensive Canon gears before I tried some other brands few weeks back. Not naming any particular brand here. I found some other bodies have way better DR at low ISO. I was very surprised to see that! 

And no, if I switch, that won't be because of this no 2nd card slot rumour lol. I'm just very disappointed with the way Canon playing this. I have my own principle and it's disheartening to see canons ploy.


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## Mdshirajum (Apr 27, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> And you registered just to tell us that? Are you perhaps a Nikon troll-for-hire?



I own an extensive array of Canon gears. More than 10 L glasses and 4 professional bodies  I'm a LONG time reader of this forum. And yes, I never posted before. But couldn't resist to express my view about this, so just registered the account. 

Once I switch, I'll surely miss my glasses but not my bodies for sure.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 27, 2015)

Mdshirajum said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > And you registered just to tell us that? Are you perhaps a Nikon troll-for-hire?
> ...



Ok then - welcome!


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## Lee Jay (Apr 27, 2015)

Mdshirajum said:


> With all these defending, I'm pretty sure Canon is paying employees to post here.



How can you be "pretty sure" about something you can not possibly know anything about?


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## Mdshirajum (Apr 27, 2015)

Lee Jay said:


> Mdshirajum said:
> 
> 
> > With all these defending, I'm pretty sure Canon is paying employees to post here.
> ...



I stated the reason in the next line


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 27, 2015)

Lee Jay said:


> Mdshirajum said:
> 
> 
> > With all these defending, I'm pretty sure Canon is paying employees to post here.
> ...



I guess he means this:



Mdshirajum said:


> I do not understand when a consumer wants a feature, why another 'consumer' will oppose that!



The problem appears to be his lack of understanding. : Perhaps he thinks Canon has infinite R&D resources, and can't envision how them spending yen on one aspect of their technology could preclude them from spending yen on something else?


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## Lee Jay (Apr 27, 2015)

Mdshirajum said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > Mdshirajum said:
> ...



None of that was even remotely in the same zip code as a "reason".


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## Mdshirajum (Apr 27, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> The problem appears to be his lack of understanding. : Perhaps he thinks Canon has infinite R&D resources, and can't envision how them spending yen on one aspect of their technology could preclude them from spending yen on something else?



Lol! You are suggesting Canon will need huge R&D money for including a 2nd card slot? Lol! It's all about intentionally crippling a product to see the next one. 

And Don't teach me about R&D please. I have been a researcher for last 7 years in an esteemed institution. I know exactly how the tech corporations work. Search my user name and you will find  

Anyways, I'll not follow this thread anymore. No point arguing with extreme fan boys or paid employees.


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## Jack Douglas (Apr 27, 2015)

Love my 6D in spite of its shortcomings and I've posted lots of shots to prove it's a capable camera.

Now with 6D and 1D4 I can't say I enjoy the extra weight but boy 10 FPS is great for bursts. 

Not sorry I didn't buy the 5D3 but may be looking at the 5D4 or perhaps a used 1Dx, probably not a 6D2 but maybe.

I came from Nikon and prefer my Canon glass and the camera ergonomics, especially. I think some people just thrive on complaints but I can't imagine living like that. 

I'm  Jack


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 27, 2015)

Mdshirajum said:


> Lol! You are suggesting Canon will need huge R&D money for including a 2nd card slot? Lol! It's all about intentionally crippling a product to see the next one.



You said it _wasn't_ about the card slot...



Mdshirajum said:


> And no, if I switch, that won't be because of this no 2nd card slot rumour lol. I'm just very disappointed with the way Canon playing this. I have my own principle and it's disheartening to see canons ploy.



I guess Toyota should put heated leather seats into the base model Yaris, too? I guess someone needs to teach you about product differentiation as well as R&D. 

Oh well, your gone anyway. Good luck with all that research at your esteemed institution.


----------



## AdjustedInCamera (Apr 27, 2015)

preppyak said:


> Crosswind said:
> 
> 
> > Not buying without tilt-able display!
> ...



+1

I went travelling recently with my 60D and took loads of pictures. Then went back with my 6D. 6D pictures were better but enjoyed the trip with the 60d much more. The tiltable screen made set-up on a tripod much easier, I got one shot over a wire fence that I couldn't have got with the 6d, and also I enjoyed being able to shoot little bits of video using the screen out like a camcoder.

Would also be good if the pre-set scene modes were kept on the 6d. It was actually very helpful to a beginner like me to be able to select these and take a picture without worrying about the various settings. It would be good if they were fully programmable also, then when you have a custom set-up for landscapes, you could just set that up and save it to the landscape mode setting.

Glad to see GPS, WiFi, NFC, included, hope they make it to the final product also. If I get these features and the IQ is as good/better as the 6d I will buy.

P.S. If this is a camera aimed at consumers not "pros", can we ask Canon not to listen to the "pros" when deciding on the features? What would the BMW 3 series look like if it had been designed by professional drivers? What would the Apple phone look like if it had been designed by "professional phone users"? Bet it wouldn't have had a camera in it 

On a serious point, does anyone have a feel for what the 'pro' camera market is actually compared to the 'non-pro'. Where 'pro' means you get paid for your work? I would have thought that there must be many more non-pros than pros, and to grow a market you would certainly have to appeal to the non-pros in any case?


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## Crosswind (Apr 27, 2015)

Please. Back to topic ladys n gentlemen.

Besides a *tilt-able display* I wish that the 6D would be *able to use ISO 102400 in LiveView mode*. Now it's only ISO 12800 so when out in the dark I always have to do a 1" exposure to see what's in my frame and then recompose. As a good low-light camera, the 6D mkII should feature at least ISO102400 LiveView. The sony a7s can even use ISO400k with liveview... So this would be a very nice upgrade for me too!



AdjustedInCamera said:


> I went travelling recently with my 60D and took loads of pictures. Then went back with my 6D. 6D pictures were better but enjoyed the trip with the 60d much more. The tiltable screen made set-up on a tripod much easier, ...



+1


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## bedford (Apr 27, 2015)

1 Stop more DR than the current 6D and I'd buy it. 

Honestly, for me (enthusiast coming from the 60D) this specs look good, although I would have loved a built-in flash.

Oliver


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## dak723 (Apr 27, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Ok, but will they put a Sony Exmor in it?
> 
> Or persist with Canon's current lacking designs?



Be careful what you ask for.  Having recently bought (and returned) the Sony A7 II with the vaunted Exmor sensor, I would have to express my disappointment with it. I spent a week taking the same shots with the Sony and my Canon 6D, and as I mentioned, returned the Sony. I normally shoot landscapes and in comparing the shots, the Sony and Canon pics were either essentially the same, or I preferred the Canon pics. I realize that the opinions when looking at actual pics is subjective as opposed to looking at test shots on the internet. I preferred the color of the Canon, but mostly the contrast and tone curve. The Sony pics were noticeably more "washed out." Of course, more DR will result in less contrast and the amount of DR in the Canon was sufficient for the landscape pics I took ranging from full daylight to pics taken just after sunset. I really thought the Exmor sensor and the Sony would give me better results for the sunset pics, but the additional DR was of absolutely no benefit in those pics. So, in my opinion, the loss of contrast for the minimal gain in DR is not worth it.


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## Orangutan (Apr 27, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Ok, but will they put a Sony Exmor in it?
> 
> Or persist with Canon's current lacking designs?



A better question is when other brands will do what's necessary to compete with Canon's strength in other areas of the system. What Canon is currently doing works fine for them.

And to repeat yet again: I can't imagine anyone on these forums would be unhappy with more low-ISO DR, so long as it doesn't come at the expense of other Canon advantages.


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## Orangutan (Apr 27, 2015)

Mdshirajum said:


> No point arguing



What kind of photography do you do? If it's strictly landscape or studio (low ISO) then it might be to your advantage to use another brand.


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## jarrodeu (Apr 27, 2015)

K said:


> > If you're a pro who relies on paid work then you really ought to have a 5D MkIII. Otherwise you're clearly just being a cheap-o and then complaining about lack of features. Buy the right gear for the job.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sounds like you need to switch to Nikon!
I have a 7D and would like to jump up to full frame but the 6D is too slow and the AF is poor. 
If I don't want the 6D, it's not Canon's fault. It is a free market so I can switch to Nikon or I can fork over more money for the 5D MK III which has dropped significantly. It is MY choice, not Canon's. 

Jarrod


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## Sporgon (Apr 27, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Ok, but will they put a Sony Exmor in it?
> 
> Or persist with Canon's current lacking designs?



I've heard they are going to improve the sensor cleaning function.


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## Matthew Saville (Apr 27, 2015)

Zv said:


> Bernard said:
> 
> 
> > K, why is "single slot" such a big issue? As far as I'm concerned, dual card slots are a throwback to the days of unreliable, low capacity memory cards. Some professionals might want dual slots when covering "no reshoot" events, but I'm OK with skipping that feature on Canon's low-cost full frame camera.
> ...



...Said no professional Nikon D610, D750, or D7000+ user, ever.

No offense, but "Buy the right gear for the job" is a pretty significant cop-out in today's market.

The right gear for the job does not necessarily mean heavier and more expensive. If anything, I could say the opposite based on how the 6D sensor out-performs the 5D mk3. The 5D mk3 might have all the shooting / focusing power and extra features, but if you want the right tool for the job, sometimes that is is a 6D. Or two of them if you do timelapse work, which is a growing industry right now. And sometimes, having dual card slots in a lightweight camera is indeed a professional solution.


----------



## IglooEater (Apr 27, 2015)

I guess Toyota should put heated leather seats into the base model Yaris, too?
[/quote]

Volkswagen does. (Or, used to; haven't checked lately)


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## andrewflo (Apr 27, 2015)

Seems pretty believable. I'm surprised about the speculation of jumping from 20 to 28 megapixels. Surely it would be a great camera, but makes me wonder where that would leave the 5DIV? ~30 megapixels? As much as I would love a low-MP low light monster, I'm curious whether Canon would really pursue that route with the 5DIV.

Also, I wonder if Canon would go for a Dual Pixel / Touch screen (possibly articulating) type of route. Kind of like a full frame 70D.

Seems to make sense in terms of where the 6D sits in the product line. But might be a bit pricey to produce?


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## nathlong (Apr 27, 2015)

Reading this list, there is just one thought that comes to mind.

'Meh'

I love my 6D, but compared to other systems on the market, its just boring.
And it doesn't look like this new body is going to change that.


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## K (Apr 28, 2015)

jarrodeu said:


> Sounds like you need to switch to Nikon!
> I have a 7D and would like to jump up to full frame but the 6D is too slow and the AF is poor.
> If I don't want the 6D, it's not Canon's fault. It is a free market so I can switch to Nikon or I can fork over more money for the 5D MK III which has dropped significantly. It is MY choice, not Canon's.
> 
> Jarrod




Well, I'd like to think that Canon's shareholders disagree, and instead believe that Canon corporate should want me to buy another Canon body and stay within their system. I also think that there are many others out there like myself. 

Normally, an objective of any business to try and appeal and cater to their customer's needs and wants as much as possible to increase sales. 

Certainly, Canon cannot please everyone as that would be impossible in a camera. But I'm not asking for much. I'm asking that they include an inexpensive, easy to implement 2nd SD card slot on what will surely be a $2,000+ camera.


Nikon D610.

Full Frame, 2 Slots, $1,500.


All the cost-savings arguments are invalidated by a simple reminder that the D610 exists.


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## Orangutan (Apr 28, 2015)

K said:


> Normally, an objective of any business to try and appeal and cater to their customer's needs and wants as much as possible to increase sales.


Not quite: the goal is to increase profits.



> Certainly, Canon cannot please everyone as that would be impossible in a camera. But I'm not asking for much. I'm asking that they include an inexpensive, easy to implement 2nd SD card slot on what will surely be a $2,000+ camera.


That could cut into profits and interfere with market segmentation.



> All the cost-savings arguments are invalidated by a simple reminder that the D610 exists.


Does it sell as well as the 6D?

We all want maximum value, but that's not the way markets work. We have limited choices. Until there's a universal lens mount for crop and FF we're stuck with those limited choices.


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## Zv (Apr 28, 2015)

K said:


> jarrodeu said:
> 
> 
> > Sounds like you need to switch to Nikon!
> ...



Canon 6D.

Full Frame, Wifi and GPS $1500

Why can Nikon not include these features that I want in their camera? Hmmmm? (Do you see how this line of argument makes no sense now?)


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 28, 2015)

K said:


> Certainly, Canon cannot please everyone as that would be impossible in a camera. But I'm not asking for much. I'm asking that they include an inexpensive, easy to implement 2nd SD card slot on what will surely be a $2,000+ camera.
> Nikon D610.
> Full Frame, 2 Slots, $1,500.
> All the cost-savings arguments are invalidated by a simple reminder that the D610 exists.



D610 current Amazon.com sales rank: #29; Amazon.de sales rank: #38
EOS 6D current Amazon.com sales rank: #11; Amazon.de sales rank: #10

EOS 6D Amazon.com Top 100 Rated (customer satisfaction): #1
D610 Amazon.com Top 100 Rated (customer satisfaction): not in Top 100

It seems your arguments in favor of a second card slot are invalidated by the simple fact that the 6D is spanking the D610 in terms of both sales and customer satisfaction.


----------



## Aglet (Apr 28, 2015)

6D's a decent dollar-value Rebel-like FF option.
An improvement in a few features and FPN reduction, a'la 7d2, would make it even better, as long as they hold the price in line vs the competition. Nikon's offerings are no slouch and Pentax will enter the fray by early 2016 and, if you pay any attention to them, they usually produce some pretty impressively spec'd and well-featured products.
Fuji's APSC x-trans products have IQ that can be compared to FF Canons, in most cases quite favorably at reasonable ISO ranges so pro/consumers are spoiled for choices.

If I ever have a hankering to get a Canon TS lens, I'd consider a 6D-series product to go with it.
Right after I consider a TS-adapter for any-lens attached to my Fuji.


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## The Flasher (Apr 28, 2015)

Zv said:


> Bernard said:
> 
> 
> > K, why is "single slot" such a big issue? As far as I'm concerned, dual card slots are a throwback to the days of unreliable, low capacity memory cards. Some professionals might want dual slots when covering "no reshoot" events, but I'm OK with skipping that feature on Canon's low-cost full frame camera.
> ...



Same debate as last week's post, boils down to the fact that no other Canon camera in the full frame range has wifi built in, a feature us 'pros' crave, plus the small form factor, low light performance and low ev focus ability - that one cross type is just one, but so accurate.. Controlling the camera remotely via tablet over wifi while camera mounted in tight or precarious position, or simply letting clients view image near real time as you shoot is the next level of usability of this tool. 

Second card slot is a must to limit liability of failing cards, dropped and stepped-on cards, lost cards etc. Data redundancy starts in camera.

ps. Cards still fail, that's not even a debate.


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## Lee Jay (Apr 28, 2015)

dilbert said:


> dak723 said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



I just sat my totally unbiased daughter down in front of the computer to look at some test shots from different cameras. All of them are shot in raw, all have the same processing in the same tool using the same profile and are all displayed at the same size. I just asked her which she liked best and worst. In a few seconds she picked the worst. It took her longer to pick the best.

These were ISO 200 and ISO 6400 shots, all pushed about 2 stops in the shadows.

The best was a Canon, the worst was a Sony.

I've shown the same set to several others. 80% have picked the same best one, and 100% have picked the same worst one. Everyone picked the Sony as the worst of the bunch.


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## K (Apr 28, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > Certainly, Canon cannot please everyone as that would be impossible in a camera. But I'm not asking for much. I'm asking that they include an inexpensive, easy to implement 2nd SD card slot on what will surely be a $2,000+ camera.
> ...




Illogical arguments. Non-sequitur.

It is well known fact that Canon has larger market share; thus, this factoid of yours is completely irrelevant and makes no point whatsoever. 


$2,100 for a single slot camera in 2016. 


$2,100 for a single slot camera in 2016. 


$2,100 for a single slot camera in 2016. 


Had to repeat it a few times so maybe people can come to their senses.


That's a lot of money for a one-slot camera in this era.



This is quite a basic feature. Inexpensive. Simple. Very useful. It isn't a specialty feature. It isn't only for pros working the utmost in mission-critical photography. It isn't a niche feature. 

It's a dual card slot. You all know, the same kind of dual card capability available in the 5D3 and 7D2. All my arguments in favor of dual slot are not incompatible or inconsistent with anything. Whereas, those arguing against the dual slot, or diminishing them are in total contradiction with what Canon does with the 7D2 and 5D3 (and the 1DX). The anti-dual card crowd makes no sense whatsoever. 

The anti-dual card slot Canon apologists ought to be demanding that Canon removes the second slot from ALL Canon cameras, as to lower the price of all bodies for this allegedly "unnecessary" feature and to bring their arguments into some kind of consistency.

1 card slot for the 5D4!

1 card slot for the 1DX2!

Let's hear it!

Let's review the reasons presented in this thread as to why Canon should never offer a 2nd card slot in a FF camera for less than $3,500 (or at all for that matter).


1. You don't need it.
2. Memory cards are extremely reliable these days and failure is almost unheard of.
3. It just adds unnecessary costs
4. Canon sells a bajillion more cameras than Nikon, so they don't have to give you a 2nd slot.
5. Adding the 2nd slot might cause people to think Canon has bad hardware.
6. If you want 2 slots, buy a pro camera - except that not even pros really need it (see reasons 1 - 5)
7. DSLR's started off with 1 slot. It was good enough in the olden days.
8. Oppose progress at all costs; be grateful for only 1 slot, for we used to have to shoot 35mm film.
9. 2 slots is for the paranoid.
10. Card failures are so rare, just reshoot when it does happen.
11. Your car could break down or a meteor hits the Earth, and you never get to the photoshoot - thus since anything in the universe could cause the photos to not happen, don't sweat missing a 2nd card slot.



LOL!


----------



## Spokagrapher (Apr 28, 2015)

Zv said:


> Exactly. Dunno what all this hoo ha is about dual slots on the 6D. It's a low end FF for hobbyists and enthusiasts. If you're a pro who relies on paid work then you really ought to have a 5D MkIII. Otherwise you're clearly just being a cheap-o and then complaining about lack of features. Buy the right gear for the job.



Hello Zv:

My name is Scott, and I thought I’d begin my participation in this forum by replying to your comments here.

I recently started a head shot and portrait business, though mostly on paper at the moment. Still need to do some things before I put my name out there for people to see. One of the things I did as I prepare to do business was select a camera. As a Canon shooter, I own a 60D and a 70D, neither of which I consider suitable for what I want to do. I bought a 6D … not because I’m cheap but because it’s what my budget allowed, and it works with the equipment I already own. My choices were the 7D2 or the 6D. 6D won because it’s full-frame.

I don’t look at the 6D as a hobbyist or enthusiast camera. It can very well serve professional needs. I come by this opinion by way of my experience as a news and portrait photographer in the past. I’ve used DSLRs of professional caliber, and I can say that the 6D is at least as good as, if not better, than any DSLR I used in the studio or on location. Granted, my last professional experience was in 2004, where I used the Fuji Finepix S2 Pro in the studio. That camera produced excellent results, but in some important respects it’s way behind what the 6D is today. 

While the 6D may seem an unlikely choice for a pro, it offers everything I need to shoot portraits and head shots. It has great low-light capability, excellent image quality, the ergonomics I’ve come to appreciate in Canon cameras, and it’s affordable. The Sigma 24-105 Art lens I primarily use seems to work well with the 6D, and I have no problems using studio flashes with my Phottix trigger installed. My whole set up, which includes, among other things, Alien Bees flashes and PLM umbrellas, seems a nice fit with the 6D. 

All in all, my early assessment of this camera is that it’s a fine camera for how I intend to use it. Because I’m an experienced photographer, I know what I need in a camera, and the 6D delivers. I’m not concerned about dual card slots, lack of an articulating touch screen, anything to do with video, and most of the other bells and whistles people complain about that the 6D doesn’t have. As DSLRs go, the 6D is a basic camera that allows me to shoot the way I’m accustomed to shooting, and it seems to be accurate and reliable. What more do I really need? That’s an important question, as my budget is very tight and will be for at least 12 to 18 months.

Even if I could afford the 5DIII, I probably wouldn’t buy one; I’d rather wait for the 5D4. The 5DS is interesting, but I’ll wait for the field and DXO reviews to come in before I decide whether I want one. If the rumored specs for the 6D2 are accurate, and if it doesn’t lose any important (for me) features that the 6D now has, I may well jump in line for one of those, rather than a 5Dxxx. I’d rather save money on a good body that does what I need it to do and have more money for lenses or other necessary equipment. That’s the advice I gave my photography students a decade ago, and it’s still good advice today.

Cheers

Scott


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## Lee Jay (Apr 28, 2015)

K said:


> This is quite a basic feature. Inexpensive. Simple. Very useful. It isn't a specialty feature. It isn't only for pros working the utmost in mission-critical photography. It isn't a niche feature.



I think it's all of those, and I have it in my 7DII.

It's a little less useful and a lot harder to use than you make it seem.

First, if you have images going to both cards, videos do not - they only go to one card.
Second, if you delete an image in-camera, it's only deleted from one card.
There are other problems if you remove one card from the camera and then close the door (it might change card modes), and if you run out of space on one card and not the other.

In short, it's a pretty complex thing to use and it can be used in multiple ways (raw on one, JPEG on the other, auto-switch, manual switch, simultaneous but not for videos, etc.). It's definitely not a main-stream feature for the average Rebel owner, and the 6D is more-or-less the Rebel of the full-frame camera line.


----------



## Vivid Color (Apr 28, 2015)

Bernard said:


> K, why is "single slot" such a big issue? As far as I'm concerned, dual card slots are a throwback to the days of unreliable, low capacity memory cards. Some professionals might want dual slots when covering "no reshoot" events, but I'm OK with skipping that feature on Canon's low-cost full frame camera.



+1


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## wsmith96 (Apr 28, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> A specification list for the EOS 6D Mark II has come about. It’s pretty much the <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2015/04/canon-eos-6d-mark-ii-cr1/" target="_blank">complete opposite of what we posted a week or so ago</a>.</p>
> <ul>
> <li>28MP</li>
> <li>6 fps</li>
> ...



If they add the 19 point AF like that found in the 7D and an articulated screen, I'd be very interested in this camera. Add DPAF and this would be an excellent camera for the enthusiast market.


----------



## lilmsmaggie (Apr 28, 2015)

I see nothing compelling to want to upgrade from my current 6D. I just attended a workshop in Yosemite this past weekend and of the 11 people there, only two of us were Canon shooters and both shooting the 6D. The other 6D shooter is seriously considering selling his 6D and moving to the Nikon D810.

I think canon's practice of intentionally crippling a camera is insulting to consumers but we've come to accept the incremental crumbs we're fed.

I don't need or want video capability, Wi-fi or GPS. Nice have's for those that really need and utilize those features but for some of us, just unnecessary baggage. 

Give me a camera that's designed to do one thing well. Give me improved AF not necessarily as many focus points as the 5D MK III or 7D MK II but more cross-type focus points. Better weather sealing -- better DR and high ISO performance wouldn't hurt. Unlike the other 6D shooter in this weekends workshop; I don't think jumping ship and going to Nikon is the answer either.


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## Matthew Saville (Apr 28, 2015)

Regarding the whole Wifi vs GPS vs dual card slots thing:

If you haven't figured it out yet, here's the cold truth...

Canon's corporate philosophy is more inclined to "the upsell" than most others. They have a long history of crippling and gimping cameras in very tactful ways. They did this with the 5D and 5D mk2 AF. Now the 5D mk3 has pro AF, but the dual card slots are gimped. (The SD card speed only, to be fair) Par for their course, they left the party-like-its-2004 diamond pattern AF configuration in the 6D.

In short, the 6D was given GPS and Wifi because that's what Canon thought *consumers* wanted. They omitted dual card slots because, like it or not, it's what Canon thought would incline *pros* to buy a more expensive camera. If you think I'm wrong that's okay, we're just speculating here, however I'd ask you this: wouldn't it have actually cost them LESS to lose the Wifi / GPS and do dual card slots instead? I suspect so.

Having said all this, most ruckus is always blown out of proportion. The 6D mk2 stands to be a pretty capable camera. It will offer some features that Nikon and other DSLRs do not, and it will lack some features that Canon thinks it can afford to do without. It will be pretty affordable, especially after it's been out for 12+ months...

=Matt=


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## Cariboucoach (Apr 28, 2015)

With all these differing opinions, it seems like the only way to satisfy everyone, is to make an a la carte camera. You choose the body type, weather sealing, Mega pixels, fps, etc. The click the order button. Almost like ordering a car used to be. 

Of course in the end nobody would be satisfied because the cost would be enormous. It just seems people always want more for less. 

If you don't like the country you live in, move, or the car you drive, sell it and buy something else, etc.


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## dsut4392 (Apr 28, 2015)

wsmith96 said:


> If they add the 19 point AF like that found in the 7D and an articulated screen, I'd be very interested in this camera. Add DPAF and this would be an excellent camera for the enthusiast market.



I'd change the order around (articulated screen, DPAF, AF from the 7DII) but otherwise +1.


----------



## Harry68 (Apr 28, 2015)

For me the 20MP of the current 6D are ok, I don't need more, because at the and of the day, I have to store this amount to my SSD, which is not increasing that much.
6FPS is ok, but if it will be only 5FPS, it is ok for me, too.
Iso up to 100k and expandable to 200k is great. This is the feature I want to have (but only if the noise is good, too).
AF: well I'm ok with the current one, but if the new one is better, I won't say no.
98% viewfinder is one percent more than the curren one, which is ok for me.
Single SD-Card is ok, but Dual SD would be better.
Wifi and GPS is for me a needed feature, NFC is nice to have.

I hope the Mark II will be able to shoot at 1/8000s


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## Zv (Apr 28, 2015)

Spokagrapher said:


> Zv said:
> 
> 
> > Exactly. Dunno what all this hoo ha is about dual slots on the 6D. It's a low end FF for hobbyists and enthusiasts. If you're a pro who relies on paid work then you really ought to have a 5D MkIII. Otherwise you're clearly just being a cheap-o and then complaining about lack of features. Buy the right gear for the job.
> ...



Thanks for the comments I appreciate your thoughts.

You obviously enjoy using the 6D, as do I and have no complaints about it. I actually also use it for paid jobs and it has worked flawlessly. I wasn't bashing the 6D. Far from it. I was highlighting those who on the one hand want to save a few bucks yet complain non stop about a lack of features in their choice when they could (and perhaps should buy the model of camera that suits their needs better). Again not talking about you. My EOS M can take be used to take pro photos but it also only has one card slot. So what? What does that prove? It wasn't designed as a high end pro camera, neither was the 6D but some use it that way and that's great. 

This K fella doesn't seem to get the point that just because the features he needs are not present in the 6D or 6DII it means Canon are somehow ripping us off. Yet we have other features like wifi and gps that the Nikon equivalent lacks. Does that then mean that Nikon is ripping of their customers too? 

No, these are simply features that are or are not included. Like extra cup holders. If you don't like it buy the thing that you do like and move on. 

Now let's drop this already and speculate on the 6DII's OTHER features! 

Edit - Good luck to you in your new venture!


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## Zv (Apr 28, 2015)

Harry68 said:


> For me the 20MP of the current 6D are ok, I don't need more, because at the and of the day, I have to store this amount to my SSD, which is not increasing that much.
> 6FPS is ok, but if it will be only 5FPS, it is ok for me, too.
> Iso up to 100k and expandable to 200k is great. This is the feature I want to have (but only if the noise is good, too).
> AF: well I'm ok with the current one, but if the new one is better, I won't say no.
> ...



Sounds like a solid wish list. 20MP or there abouts is the sweet spot IMO. Deffo needs better AF with more cross points. I would take something similar to the 70D. 6fps would be sweet too. And bring that X-sync up to 1/200 at least. 

I actually would like a tilt and swivel screen for those wierd angles and less neck pains. 

I wonder if they can make it lighter? I don't need smaller though, it's already at the limit for comfortable hand holding. 

Please please please can we not have to press playback button to scroll through images when in preview! Or give us a C-fn for it!


----------



## Tugela (Apr 28, 2015)

Looks like Canon are setting up for another fail. Perhaps on the assumption if they fail often enough it will be perceived as normal and everyone will be happy with their shortchanged camera.


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## Solar Eagle (Apr 28, 2015)

I guess people want a 5D for the price of a 6D - dual slots, weather sealing, AF - and if anybody tells them a 6D is not a 5D, its a 6D, they think surely that person is on the dark side - a sold soul shill. 

Its funny to me that people would rather complain about what they can't have than enjoy what they can. Its like a baby that cries because he's sleepy, but wants to stay awake. Better to just accept the days offerings than try to squeeze more from the dregs.


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## Sabaki (Apr 28, 2015)

I'm not as enthusiastic about Canon's wares since my fiasco with the 7Dii.

The 6Dii will take photos but whether it will have the bells and whistles considered the norm by today's standards or gosh, just pushing the envelope just a bit, is really not for us to decide.

On a side note: I often marvel at Canon's marketing videos one sees after a body debuts and someone hits us with this line: "We have put into this camera everything our users wanted..." paraphrasing there but how many of you guys have actually been asked, what would you want in a camera?

So if I have to play the game:
- Sufficient AF to shoot an event indoors
- Weather dealing
- Improved dynamic range


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## Orangutan (Apr 28, 2015)

Solar Eagle said:


> I guess people want a 5D for the price of a 6D - dual slots, weather sealing, AF - and if anybody tells them a 6D is not a 5D, its a 6D, they think surely that person is on the dark side - a sold soul shill.



What people want is everything they see from comparable models of other brands plus what's already there. People look at the DR and weather sealing of less-expensive competitor models and ask why the 6D and xxD models can't have that for a few dollars more. They look at dual card slots and believe it's just a few dollars more to add it. They wonder why Canon doesn't put in a better sensor to compete on DR. 

I would also like to see these features, but I'm realistic: every new feature will have at least one of the following costs to Canon:

* Allow customers to misuse it, increasing support costs and return rates
* Incur capital expenditures that reduce profits
* Reduce product differentiation, resulting in lower sales numbers of higher-profit models
* Require additional testing, QA, refinement costs

People forget that Canon is a for-profit business, but Canon has not forgotten.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 28, 2015)

K said:


> LOL!



There, I summarized your post for you. 

Please try to understand… It's not that people are "anti-dual card slot" or "anti-DR". There's an opportunity cost to the addition of any feature. There's no free lunch. What you deem as something critical may not be the case for everyone. You can repeat your mantra until you're blue in the face, it won't change what Canon decides to do.




Tugela said:


> Looks like Canon are setting up for another fail. Perhaps on the assumption if they fail often enough it will be perceived as normal and everyone will be happy with their shortchanged camera.



Indeed. Because the 5DIII and 6D we're such spectacular failures that they are only the most popular full frame camera's on the market. I'm sure Canon would be quite happy to fail just like that every time.


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## dak723 (Apr 28, 2015)

Lee Jay said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > dak723 said:
> ...



Yes, you could say it is personal opinion rather than easy to document test results, but in terms of color, contrast and overall appearance, I, too, prefer Canon over the pics I have seen from Nikon or Sony. I do like the look of Olympus pics , and not surprisingly, that is why I also own an Olympus Om-D EM-1. So, for those who repeat endlessly that Canon is *******, or way behind, or incompetent, I disagree. DR is not the only measure of how good a sensor or a Camera is. I prefer to look at the entire picture.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 28, 2015)

dilbert said:


> My failures with cards have been:
> 1) The USB reader itself introduced errors
> 2) Pins in USB reader getting bent/broken in the CF slot
> 3) Not having a CF reader built into my laptop
> 4) Finding a CF USB reader in a shop when on holidays



1) Defective / poorly chosen 3rd party product. 
2) Defective / poorly chosen / misused 3rd party product.
3) Poorly chosen 3rd party product.
4) Poor planning on your part. 

I thought we were discussing the internal card slot(s) on a Canon dSLR.


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## Bernard (Apr 28, 2015)

K,

Sorry my question upset you so much. In case you were wondering, I was genuinely interested in your response, although I am now sorry I asked.

I've got half a million digital shots in my archive, going back to 2001, without a card failure. That's why your concern seemed odd to me. I understand now that your luck hasn't been as good as mine. If it helps, here are my golden rules: always buy the best cards from reputable shops (no counterfeit cards) and brands, retire cards after two years or so (they can still be used in other devices), never format cards or delete files in the field, only format cards after you've made two separate backups. Hope this helps.

BTW, my must-have feature is interchangeable focusing screens. I refuse to buy a camera that can't be focused by eye. Let's hope Canon keeps this feature in the 6Dm2


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## K (Apr 28, 2015)

Zv said:


> This K fella doesn't seem to get the point that just because the features he needs are not present in the 6D or 6DII it means Canon are somehow ripping us off. Yet we have other features like wifi and gps that the Nikon equivalent lacks. Does that then mean that Nikon is ripping of their customers too?




Hi.

Some facts for you:


Nikon D750 -

*2* card slots
*WIFI*

51 point AF
Tilt screen (a feature others in this thread bring up wishing Canon would implement)


All for less than $2,000!


Again, why the 6D2 at over $2,000 at release with one slot? To be fair, if these specs in the rumor hold up - Canon should sell the 6D2 for around $1,500, at best. A neutered camera ought to come with a lower price. It isn't just that Canon omits the slot, it's also the high price too.

Canon IS ripping people off as part of their old world mentality to try and force up-sell to the 5D line.

No amount of you or anyone else throwing around features about Canon 6D is going to make a value argument against Nikon's offerings at the price point. It is just a plain fact that the competition is offering more for the same or less money. 


Canon is very deliberate in what they add or omit. By omitting the 2nd slot, it is a direct move against anyone with any kind of professional use aspirations for this camera. Canon's view is, if you're going to dodge paying nearly $4,000 for a 5D, then we're going to make you pay for it by accepting the daily risk of losing photos when using the 6D2 on the job.

Nikon doesn't feel this way at all, and within their system - they have a more realistic view of their consumers. The fact is, people will buy what they can afford. If they can afford the 5D4, they will buy it. If they can't afford a 5D series camera - removing the 2nd slot from an entry level FF camera isn't going to miraculously drop $1,800 more dollars into someone's pocket so they can buy the 5D series camera. What part of that don't people understand?? And it isn't a legitimate rebuttal to say "too bad, you can't afford it - you don't get a BMW for a Honda price" ...except when I prove that Nikon does do just that.

In the end, all Canon is doing is unnecessarily, and distastefully crippling the capabilities of a large segment of enthusiasts and entry-level pros.

A lousy, stinking 2nd card slot isn't that much to ask for or expect. It also isn't worthy of this kind of opposition by so many people.

Really bizarre.


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## Orangutan (Apr 28, 2015)

K said:


> The anti-dual card slot Canon apologists ought to be demanding that Canon removes the second slot from ALL Canon cameras, as to lower the price of all bodies for this allegedly "unnecessary" feature and to bring their arguments into some kind of consistency.



No, this is patently false. No such claim or implication has been made. The assertion is much simpler and can be stated as this: the manufacturer (Canon) is entitled to choose what they put into their cameras and the customer is entitled to decided whether to buy it. I have simply accepted the reality that what I want (as an individual) doesn't matter to Canon or to any other manufacturer; instead, they assess the market as a whole. Neuro's argument is that the market as a whole has spoken in Canon's favor.

Your arguments about what would be useful, inexpensive, appropriate are just fine, and I'm mostly in agreement. I simply believe it's futile to expect those things from a successful manufacturer, so I might as well not work myself into a froth over it.



> 1. You don't need it.
> 2. Memory cards are extremely reliable these days and failure is almost unheard of.
> 3. It just adds unnecessary costs
> 4. Canon sells a bajillion more cameras than Nikon, so they don't have to give you a 2nd slot.
> ...



Nope, except for (4) none of these is on-target.


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## JohnBran (Apr 28, 2015)

I for one am excited about new 6D Mk2 , and I’m ready to purchase new full frame camera. I’m looking forward to seeing what will Canon bring out at this price level. 
My wish list would be tilt-screen and better AF , well anything is better that what they have now in 6D. It looks like tilt screen is not going to happen so I would be hoping for improved AF ,improved low light and better DR.
I will then make up my mind if Canon is good value proposal compared to what Nikon is offering. 
While I have been with Canon for over 10 years that is not a good reason to stay with Canon.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 28, 2015)

K said:


> It is just a plain fact that the competition is offering more for the same or less money.



Yet they're _still_ apparently not able to sell more cameras than Canon. What does that tell you?




K said:


> In the end, all Canon is doing is unnecessarily, and distastefully crippling the capabilities of a large segment of enthusiasts and entry-level pros.
> 
> A lousy, stinking 2nd card slot isn't that much to ask for or expect. It also isn't worthy of this kind of opposition by so many people.
> 
> Really bizarre.



What's bizzare is that you somehow seem to expect that posting a few hundred repetitive words on a internet forum will make any difference. 

If dual card slots are a be-all end-all critical requirement for you, and the 6DII comes with one, OMG what will you do?? Besides post a few hundred more repetitive words on an internet forum whining about it, that is? 

I guess you should just buy a D750, as we all know the grass really is greener. After all, Nikon doesn't unnecessarily, and distastefully cripple the capabilities of a large segment of enthusiasts and entry-level pros by excluding a second card slot that mitigates the effect of memory card failure. Of course if your *camera* fails, you can expect Nikon to take nearly 5 times as long to fix it as Canon and charge more to do so...but I'm sure that's not a problem for enthusiasts and entry-level pros. So hey, enjoy that greener grass, buddy. :


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## Orangutan (Apr 28, 2015)

K said:


> make a value argument



Maybe this is the key.

To a buyer, value is getting the most product for your money.

To a seller, value is getting the most profit for your products.

You have explained how Canon could give us more of the value we want, but you have not explained why Canon would choose to do so at the expense of the value they want.

What, exactly, does Canon get by providing us with additional value at no greater cost?


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## martti (Apr 28, 2015)

Will they come in other colors than black?
Once upon the time there were cool khaki and titanium color cameras.
Why not any more?


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## K (Apr 28, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Please try to understand… It's not that people are "anti-dual card slot" or "anti-DR". There's an opportunity cost to the addition of any feature. There's no free lunch. What you deem as something critical may not be the case for everyone. You can repeat your mantra until you're blue in the face, it won't change what Canon decides to do.




Judging by the posts, arguments and tone in this thread - I can't help but come across with the impression that people do have something against dual card slot. Or at the very least, these are Canon zealots who come out to defend against any criticism of Canon.

Why? What is Canon to them? Is it their family member? This is a corporation that makes products it tries to sell. As a consumer, I'm out for my best interests which is to get the most value for my dollar - and part of that is comparing features dollar for dollar. 

When others don't seem to care at all about this, and even get quite animated about any calling out of Canon - it leads people to wonder if they have any stake in this? Hence, some of the suspicions that there are Canon paid shills in here. But no sense in discussing that as there is no evidence. 

The other explanation is just blind, fanatical fan-boys that see no wrong in their brand. We see this in everything, Ford vs Chevy etcetera.

People will value different features. This is a main theme argument in this thread. Different features, different value to different people.

Great! Wonderful.

However, Nikon offers all those features, all together in a camera for less money.

Thus, even that argument is invalid. It's an either/or argument. You're either going to get wifi or you're going to get dual slots for example. Total nonsense.


Canon will do whatever it wants. I will vote with my dollars, and NOT buy the 6D2 unless it has two card slots. Maybe Canon doesn't care? Wonderful. If they can make up the loss of my sale, by getting others to buy on other features that were allegedly added at the expense of two slots (see the either/or argument made above) - that is good for them. Too bad though, that the people who buy for the other features allegedly added and provided at the expense of dual slots are being ripped off, because they could have and should have had that feature provided by Canon for what they are paying based on what the competition is offering. But that is their choice. People can see value in whatever they want - it doesn't mean that is the maximum value they can get.

So let us finally, once and for all dispense with the false theory that the reason Canon doesn't add a dual card slot is because it is some big R&D, and manufacturing expense. 


I do want to point something out -


Criticism is a good thing. It helps progress. If everyone got a gold star - what would this world come to? Would there be any innovation if everything were A+ for Canon?


There is a big difference between a hater/troll and someone using sound logic and facts to present very reasonable arguments in favor of something. I'm not some hater or troll coming here to just bash Canon. I don't feel as though anything I've said is out of line. I feel what I've said is normal, standard consumer type opinions based on consumer reasoning. No brand loyalty, no brand hate. No anti-brand agenda. None of that. Canon, overall, is still a superior platform to Nikon. They just aren't giving us as high of a value bodies as they can, and for no other reason but to try and up-sell people committed to the system with lots of glass.

Just to be clear.


I've laid out just about everything that can possibly be said in favor of dual card slots. I've pointed out all possible reasonings why Canon didn't include. I've answered every anti-dual card slot argument in this thread. I've debunked every illogical statement made by Canon apologists.

Canon will likely not include. I will not buy. Done.


Now -- I hope this thread can get back on track to the rest of the rumored features. 

Thanks everyone.


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## Lee Jay (Apr 28, 2015)

K said:


> However, Nikon offers all those features, all together in a camera for less money.



Does it have dual pixel phase-detection focusing on 80% of the sensor area? Does it have the availability of an 11-24 rectilinear, an 8-15 zoom fisheye, or a diffraction-limited 100-400mm telephoto? Does it have an optically near-perfect 17mm and 24mm tilt-shift available?


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## Orangutan (Apr 28, 2015)

K said:


> I will vote with my dollars, and NOT buy the 6D2 unless it has two card slots. Maybe Canon doesn't care? Wonderful. If they can make up the loss of my sale, by getting others to buy on other features that were allegedly added at the expense of two slots


It's more about the full line-up of bodies: Canon doesn't mind losing a 6D2 sale to a 5D4. They probably mind a little losing 6D2 to XXD. They mind a lot if a large number of people choose another brand instead of 6D2.



> Criticism is a good thing. It helps progress. If everyone got a gold star - what would this world come to? Would there be any innovation if everything were A+ for Canon?



It certainly is, and I blame all the other brands for failing to get their sh** together and put pressure on Canon. Since they offer better tech at better prices they should be taking market share from Canon. Apparently they're too lame to do so. Until the other companies pull their heads all the way out and threaten Canon's market share Canon will continue to make the choices it does. Your displeasure should be directed at those lame-**S other companies who have such poor business skill that they can't take market share from Canon with superior value.



> using sound logic and facts to present very reasonable arguments in favor of something...I feel what I've said is normal, standard consumer type opinions based on consumer reasoning.



I largely agree with your reasoning as to why I should want dual-card slots, but you have not addressed the entirely-separate question of why Canon would choose to give us those additional features.


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## privatebydesign (Apr 28, 2015)

K said:


> Canon is very deliberate in what they add or omit. By omitting the 2nd slot, it is a direct move against anyone with any kind of professional use aspirations for this camera. Canon's view is, if you're going to dodge paying nearly $4,000 for a 5D, then we're going to make you pay for it by accepting the daily risk of losing photos when using the 6D2 on the job..........................
> 
> In the end, all Canon is doing is unnecessarily, and distastefully crippling the capabilities of a large segment of enthusiasts and entry-level pros.
> 
> ...



Your comment is bizarre. The "daily risk of losing photos" is as far away from reality as possible. I'd venture that every long time pro has far more film horror stories than card failure stories. I have shot professionally with one card for over ten years and never had a card fail. I paid $6,000 for my camera with two card slots and almost never use both. I recently did a high profile shoot with a 6D and the last thing on my mind was card issues. If card failure was such a pro feature why don't all medium format digital cameras have them, especially given that size and cost and not as relevant to MFD bodies.

Dual card slots are a vastly over hyper 'feature' that the marketeers have managed to convince keen enthusiasts they need.


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## AcutancePhotography (Apr 28, 2015)

Such a long and emotional argument about something that is really an individual's preference.

Some like dual cards
Some don't see the need
Some don't really care

Why do some people feel it necessary to convert other people to *their* opinion? ???

Is this really the most important aspect about the 6DII?


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## Don Haines (Apr 28, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > Canon is very deliberate in what they add or omit. By omitting the 2nd slot, it is a direct move against anyone with any kind of professional use aspirations for this camera. Canon's view is, if you're going to dodge paying nearly $4,000 for a 5D, then we're going to make you pay for it by accepting the daily risk of losing photos when using the 6D2 on the job..........................
> ...


I had a card fail on the weekend... I lost 1 image when it died... (and no, it was not bigfoot and Elvis getting out of a flying saucer)

This is the first card failure that I have ever had in 20 years of shooting digital......


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## dak723 (Apr 28, 2015)

All this mindless debating! Good grief!

K, and anyone else who wants two card slots need not be attacked, nor do they need to defend their position. Their is no debate that two card slots offer a safety factor that one card slot does not. This is fact, not opinion.

It is also clear that Canon does not offer this feature in their 6D. Those who want this feature at a comparable price should get the Nikon if it is that important to them. They have options. The feature exists. Buy the camera that has what you want. 

It is clear -at least with past experience as a guide - that Canon will not put features into their cheaper cameras if that will keep people from buying more expensive cameras in their lineup. This is not a sin, or deplorable, or outrageous. It is what most manufacturers do - whether you are buying a TV, car, computer, etc. The fact that Nikon is offering more features in their cheaper models is a break for the consumer, but it may prove to be a poor strategy for the company. Or perhaps their strategy will work. Only time will tell. But the choice is there for the consumer. Be satisfied with what you get from Canon - knowing their strategy, or switch to Nikon or other camera maker - knowing their strategies. Those are your choices. Whining and complaining about Canon's strategy won't make them change their strategy, especially if it is succeeding.


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## Matthew Saville (Apr 28, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > Canon is very deliberate in what they add or omit. By omitting the 2nd slot, it is a direct move against anyone with any kind of professional use aspirations for this camera. Canon's view is, if you're going to dodge paying nearly $4,000 for a 5D, then we're going to make you pay for it by accepting the daily risk of losing photos when using the 6D2 on the job..........................
> ...



It's not just about corrupted cards, by the way. It's about having an immediate backup that is in your pocket or somewhere else, in case your bag or camera gets stolen at a wedding. Or in case it gets dropped in a lake. And lastly, it's also mighty helpful after the job, so that you can download the entire gig from one high-capacity memory card, without sacrificing the safety of swapping out smaller memory cards throughout the day.

But, it seems pretty clear that some folks just refuse to understand this, or maybe they're refusing to believe that Canon does have a corporate philosophy of carefully holding back on their lower models in order to incline more serious buyers to spend way more than they really need to.

In other words, you can talk about what a pro does or does not need until you're blue in the face, but the bottom line is that cameras like the D750 offer so much more, for about the same price.

This isn't about bashing or being a fanboy. It is in Canon owners best interest that they admit there is a serious problem with the corporate philosophy of upselling and complacency. You didn't stand for that early Rebel that was gimped via software to limit the ISO, and you jumped ship to the D700 in droves when the 5D 2 had the same crappy AF as the 5D 1. Why then are you making excuses for the 6D mk2?


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## privatebydesign (Apr 28, 2015)

dak723 said:


> All this mindless debating! Good grief!
> 
> K, and anyone else who wants two card slots need not be attacked, nor do they need to defend their position. Their is no debate that two card slots offer a safety factor that one card slot does not. This is fact, not opinion.
> 
> ...



Well by that reasoning three is more valuable than two, and four even 'better' than three. This is also a fact, not an opinion.

My point was not that some people might have been sold the marketeers line that advanced amateurs need the dual card slot 'pro' feature, nor that two is intrinsically 'safer' than one (though still less safe than three or four), it was the ridiculous comment Z made that did deserve attacking, _"by accepting the daily risk of losing photos"_. That is not true, and is not a fact, it is hyperbole and patently false. There is no daily risk of losing your photos if you have just one card slot and using that as a reason to demand dual slots is dishonest and inaccurate.


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## privatebydesign (Apr 28, 2015)

Matthew Saville said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > K said:
> ...



I understand perfectly well the innumerable and myriad of ways we can fail as photographers, and in my time I have achieved many of them, we can also contrive even more reasons, that will almost certainly never happen, that demand the 'saftey net' afforded by a feature that is up sold. But I dealt with cameras that recorded a single image at a time with film and have had no issues doing the same with digital. 

Don has shot digitally for twenty years and lost one image, I have shot for over ten and not lost any from not using a dual card workflow. It isn't that a dual card workflow is needed, it is that the marketing departments have convinced you of your fallibility with a single card workflow and succeeded in making you want dual card slots.


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## Matthew Saville (Apr 28, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> ....My point was not that some people might have been sold the marketeers line that advanced amateurs need the dual card slot 'pro' feature, nor that two is intrinsically 'safer' than one (though still less safe than three or four), it was the ridiculous comment Z made that did deserve attacking, _"by accepting the daily risk of losing photos"_. That is not true, and is not a fact, it is hyperbole and patently false. There is no daily risk of losing your photos if you have just one card slot and using that as a reason to demand dual slots is dishonest and inaccurate.



Again, you're ONLY talking about corruption, and nothing else. Having dual card slots can offer many other benefits and protections other than just one card going bad.

I'm not sure what types of photography you guys are into, or if you do photography for a living, but well, it's complicated. And my dual card slots help keep my photos safer, in a complicated environment.


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## Don Haines (Apr 28, 2015)

Personally, I think 2 cards is a good thing.

I like having a Compact Flash (or Cfast when they get more common) for speed, and a SD card for versatility. That SD card fits into laptops, ipads, tablets, televisions, etc etc. Yes, you do get backup protection out of it, but for me, the convenience is the big factor.

As mentioned above, I have only had one card fail on me in 20 years, and that was on the first shot of the day.. words were said, the card was popped out of the camera, a spare card put in, and on I went. Dual card backup isn't really the big thing for me, but I do appreciate it and use it... who knows, someday it might save my bacon....

The big thing with me for dual cards is my workflow. I go home, pop the card out of the camera and into the computer, download the images, and process them. Next morning I grab the camera and head out. The number of times that I have done that WITHOUT removing the memory card from the computer and putting it back into the camera is staggering


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## Matthew Saville (Apr 28, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> .....I understand perfectly well the innumerable and myriad of ways we can fail as photographers, and in my time I have achieved many of them, we can also contrive even more reasons, that will almost certainly never happen, that demand the 'saftey net' afforded by a feature that is up sold. But I dealt with cameras that recorded a single image at a time with film and have had no issues doing the same with digital.
> 
> Don has shot digitally for twenty years and lost one image, I have shot for over ten and not lost any from not using a dual card workflow. It isn't that a dual card workflow is needed, it is that the marketing departments have convinced you of your fallibility with a single card workflow and succeeded in making you want dual card slots.



If you were to ask me, I would say yes, I wouldn't hesitate to shoot a job with a camera that has a single card slot. And, I trust my memory cards, I trust my workflow, and I trust my safety habits. So, to say that no serious pro should consider the current 6D is very shortsighted. I actually have advised plenty of pros and aspiring pros that a 6D is a great choice.

However, my other point remains- Canon isn't leaving this feature out because they don't want to subject you to false fears of fallibility. They're leaving it out because they want to maintain the elitist status of their flagship models, and sell more expensive cameras. That is a corporate philosophy I simply cannot support, not when other makers are working hard to cram as many pro features as they possibly can into the most affordable camera they possibly can. That is what I think needs to change, what Canon owners need to create a stronger voice against.


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## Sporgon (Apr 28, 2015)

Matthew Saville said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > K said:
> ...



Stroll on....

How do you sleep at night ? What happens if your Mum puts the card in your pants in the washing machine and the other one fails ?


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 28, 2015)

dilbert said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



Realistically...
1) Many do, you have free choice. Hint: the one that costs $5 on eBay is probably not very reliable
2) As you say, a problem for _users_. Why? Either a design flaw (see #1) or carelessness. 
3) If you _require_ an internal CF slot then yes, Apple is a poor choice. Apple is also now a poor choice if you require an internal optical drive. Fortunately there are CF readers. I have both a SanDisk FW800 and a Siig ExpressCard, and amazingly both have worked flawlessly for years (see #1). 
4) Are you truly that obtuse? If you can't remember to pack your card reader whatever your destination, that's a personal problem. Would you also prefer to blame Canon if you leave your camera at home? :


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## privatebydesign (Apr 28, 2015)

Matthew Saville said:


> I'm not sure what types of photography you guys are into, or if you do photography for a living, but well, it's complicated. And my dual card slots help keep my photos safer, in a complicated environment.



It is as complicated as you make it.

I am a full time working pro photographer, I am a generalist, last week I was shooting yachts in the Caribbean, on Saturday I am shooting a wedding in Florida, next week I am shooting artwork for a small town council and the week after that I am back down to the Caribbean for two weeks of mixed yachts and high end real estate.

On Saturday I will have a van load of gear from lights and stands to lenses and bodies a second shooter and an assistant, the week after that I will have one body two lenses and a battery charger that fit in a carry on with my paperwork and clothes, I'll shoot it all with one card.

I understand what you are saying, I don't understand why anybody cares about two card slots. Yes it is a feature Canon use to differentiate between ranges, so what?

However much you criticise Canon what is the alternative? Nikon and Sony throw in everything with every model, do you think that doesn't come at a cost? Of course it does, either reliability, quality control, lower cost components, less investment in the rest of the system etc etc. All camera systems are a balance and pretty much all of them will work for most keen users most of the time.

Buy what you need to do the job you want, take most of the crap on the internet with a healthy dose of skepticism and don't believe the marketing.


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## Matthew Saville (Apr 28, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> ....Nikon and Sony throw in everything with every model, do you think that doesn't come at a cost? Of course it does, either reliability, quality control, lower cost components, less investment in the rest of the system etc etc. All camera systems are a balance and pretty much all of them will work for most keen users most of the time....



While I agree with everything else you're saying, I feel this statement is becoming less and less powerful.

Canon and Nikon have been "on top" for too long, and they're beginning to try to get away with crap they shouldn't.

Nikon cuts MFG / QC corners, and winds up with oily sensors or other stuff.

Canon feels free to leave out features that Nikon has offered for 3-ish (2.5?) generations of "affordable full-frame" cameras now, and has offered in multiple sub-$2K cameras since 2009.

In other words, $1,100 cameras like the Pentax K-3 mk2 incline me to believe that neither of these Canon / Nikon shortcomings are compromises that we should accept as "just the way it is".


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## The Flasher (Apr 28, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> Matthew Saville said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not sure what types of photography you guys are into, or if you do photography for a living, but well, it's complicated. And my dual card slots help keep my photos safer, in a complicated environment.
> ...



I posted this on page 4 or 5 as a response to a very early comment, but wanted to copy it here again, pro dual slots.


_Same debate as last week's post, boils down to the fact that no other Canon camera in the full frame range has wifi built in, a feature us 'pros' crave, plus the small form factor, low light performance and low ev focus ability - that one cross type is just one, but so accurate.. Controlling the camera remotely via tablet over wifi while camera mounted in tight or precarious position, or simply letting clients view image near real time as you shoot is the next level of usability of this tool. 

Second card slot is a must to limit liability of failing cards, dropped and stepped-on cards, lost cards etc. Data redundancy starts in camera.

ps. Cards still fail, that's not even a debate._

To add, Don above was lucky it failed at the beginning of the shoot. Had it failed at the end, and had he'd spent $10k on equipment, production permits, talent, assistants, props, etc, and everyone had gone home before he realized the data was lost, there would have been tears. And money lost, insurance or not. And speaking of taking out insurance on a project, there's usually a data compromise clause, whereby you are required to shoot to redundant media, more so in the movie industry, but if there's enough money on the table, stills jobs as well.
To me dual slots a must - if the 6D didn't have a killer wifi feature and fantastic image quality warranting it's use on profeassional assignments, I'd be happily shooting 5D3 or 1ds3 and wouldnt be participating in this debate.

Cheers.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Apr 28, 2015)

Matthew Saville said:


> ...maybe they're refusing to believe that Canon does have a corporate philosophy of carefully holding back on their lower models in order to incline more serious buyers to spend way more than they really need want to.



I doubt there's anyone here who doesn't believe or understand that, with the caveat of the edit above. What's baffling is the apparent belief that whining on the Internet about what is basically Marketing 101 will change it. You can't get the DVD Navigation system on the base model Honda Pilot. OMG, Honda are a bunch of greedy, conniving, upselling bastards. :




Matthew Saville said:


> In other words, you can talk about what a pro does or does not need until you're blue in the face, but the bottom line is that cameras like the D750 offer so much more, for about the same price.



Indeed. Compared to the 6D, the D750 offers features like a *more* card slots, *more* low ISO DR, *more* AF points, a *more* limited lens lineup, *more* average lens softness, significantly *more* repair turnaround time at *more* cost...and all for about the same price. Yay, more is better!




Matthew Saville said:


> You didn't stand for that early Rebel that was gimped via software to limit the ISO, and you jumped ship to the D700 in droves when the 5D 2 had the same crappy AF as the 5D 1. Why then are you making excuses for the 6D mk2?



You have an interesting way of recalling history. Interesting, even if factually inaccurate.


----------



## privatebydesign (Apr 28, 2015)

Matthew Saville said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > ....Nikon and Sony throw in everything with every model, do you think that doesn't come at a cost? Of course it does, either reliability, quality control, lower cost components, less investment in the rest of the system etc etc. All camera systems are a balance and pretty much all of them will work for most keen users most of the time....
> ...



It depends entirely on how broad a view you take of your system and how much of that system functionality you are interested in accessing.

For people mainly interested in a DSLR with a 24ish to 200ish mm focal length range there is little to choose between the manufacturers, and small points like dual card slots can make a difference to modest users.

Others have niche uses and specific requirements that push them in one direction for more fundamentally important key reasons. For example I use the unique first party Canon RT system extensively, for me the 100% reliability of that one feature alone vastly outweighs any thoughts of dual card slots on a body, any body. How about the unique 11-24 I have on order? Or the unique 17 TS-E that I use very often. Canon are and have been extremely prolific in outstanding system features that really have put them in a class of their own, sure many won't find a use for some of them, for example I love the idea of the 200-400 f4 1.4 but will never buy one, but I appreciate that Canon are looking after a broad range of system orientated users.

I use many of the unique features the Canon system provides, for a generalist like me Canon is unmatched in the depth and breadth of the system I need, I am no fanboy, I need radio flash control, I need a 17 TS-E, I need an 11-24. Canon is the only company that offers me any one of those as a first party option.


----------



## Don Haines (Apr 28, 2015)

The Flasher said:


> Second card slot is a must to limit liability of failing cards, dropped and stepped-on cards, lost cards etc. Data redundancy starts in camera.
> 
> ps. Cards still fail, that's not even a debate.[/i]
> 
> ...


Don WAS lucky it failed at the beginning of the shoot.... and there was a second card in the camera so nothing was lost.... with the exception of the one shot where the camera reported that there was an error writing to the card and did not save the shot. I immediately replaced the bad card with a spare card and continued the shoot with 2 cards in the camera.

Everything will fail at one time or another.... cards die, hard drives crash, camera bodies turn into bricks... we do what we can to mitigate those risks.

On an important shoot, I carry two cameras and for a good reason. I had a camera die during a wedding, and because of the backup camera, nobody even noticed... I had another camera die while shooting the big group photo for a reunion (the day after the warranty expired..... don't know how they timed that????), and out came the backup body to save my bacon... and that wedding.... I was second shooter.... more backup 

So two cards.... I regard it as a very good feature for professional usage, but just because a camera does not have two cards does not mean a pro wouldn't use it... A pro with a 6D would swap in a new card every now and then so that the entire day's shooting was not all on one card... better to loose just an hour than the entire day....


----------



## Bernard (Apr 28, 2015)

Matthew Saville said:


> It's about having an immediate backup that is in your pocket or somewhere else, in case your bag or camera gets stolen at a wedding.



Hold on a minute. You are talking about shooting weddings with a 6D? It's a lovely camera, but what happens when it rains? Do you tell the bride that you can't get the shots she wants because it's too wet out? What happens when you drop your bag or bang the camera? Do you tell the whole wedding party that they need to reschedule because you didn't bring the right tools?

You know what, there's no point arguing. There won't be much left once the Mother in Law and her lawyers are done with you.

For the rest of us, let me be perfectly clear: the 6D is not a professional camera. Adding a second card slot will not change that.

If real customers are paying for your time and for results, you bring a camera that works in the toughest conditions. You don't bring excuses. Sure, you can experiment with a non-professional camera: run a few Polaroids, or shoot some stuff with a Holga, but that's in addition to the shots you are paid to cover. The 6D's images are not different enough from a 1Dx or 5D3 to justify being anything but the "last chance" fourth backup camera that stays locked in a waterproof container in the back of your car all day.


----------



## privatebydesign (Apr 28, 2015)

Bernard said:


> Matthew Saville said:
> 
> 
> > It's about having an immediate backup that is in your pocket or somewhere else, in case your bag or camera gets stolen at a wedding.
> ...



Ah, another persons view hijacked by marketeers.

I have used the 6D for pro shoots, I would happily use the 6D for weddings. The 6D is a way way better camera than the $7,000 1Ds we were shooting weddings with over ten years ago, and that had one card slot! It is leagues better than the 1VHS's I used for my last film weddings and many leagues better than the F1N's and A1's I shot weddings with pre AF.

Anybody that couldn't shoot an excellent wedding with a 6D shouldn't be shooting weddings, all modern digital cameras can easily do that.


----------



## 9VIII (Apr 28, 2015)

Bernard said:


> What happens when you... bang the camera?



You're doing it wrong.


----------



## The Flasher (Apr 28, 2015)

Don Haines said:


> The Flasher said:
> 
> 
> > Second card slot is a must to limit liability of failing cards, dropped and stepped-on cards, lost cards etc. Data redundancy starts in camera.
> ...



This just popped up on petapixel, re liability, data etc.

http://petapixel.com/2015/04/28/wedding-photographer-ordered-to-pay-couple-8800-after-losing-photos/


----------



## privatebydesign (Apr 28, 2015)

The Flasher said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > The Flasher said:
> ...



And that is a quantum leap from that situation to the two card slot argument. Besides, his contract must suck and it should be a matter for his insurers. At no point should your personal liability ever exceed your agreed fees and insurance should take care of accidental liabilities and legal fees.

Work smart people.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Apr 28, 2015)

The Flasher said:


> This just popped up on petapixel, re liability, data etc.
> 
> http://petapixel.com/2015/04/28/wedding-photographer-ordered-to-pay-couple-8800-after-losing-photos/





> After the event in Seville, the photographer somehow deleted the photos without making any backup of them — and presumably without any way to recover the data.



A second card slot is not adequate protection from stupidity.


----------



## The Flasher (Apr 28, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> The Flasher said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



Yeah "smart" as in redundant data from the shutter to two cards. Quantum leap yes, in that if he had dual cards there may have been a chance he'd still have images, although in this case this guy failed on so many more levels..


----------



## The Flasher (Apr 28, 2015)

> A second card slot is not adequate protection from stupidity.



+1


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## Bernard (Apr 28, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> I have used the 6D for pro shoots, I would happily use the 6D for weddings.
> (...)
> Anybody that couldn't shoot an excellent wedding with a 6D shouldn't be shooting weddings, all modern digital cameras can easily do that.



You didn't read what I wrote. I never said the image quality wasn't good enough. I said it wasn't a professional camera.

If it rains at a wedding (it will), you know the shot the bride wants will have you out in the rain while the wedding party is covered and looking out. You have to get that shot, no negotiation, no excuses. You and your camera will get soaked, but that isn't your customer's problem. You took the job, you presented yourself as a professional, end of story.

The 6D is a fine camera, but it's not built to shoot in a monsoon every weekend and suffer innumerable bumps and bruises (and snow and dust and sand and spilled drinks). Using it that way is foolish, even though it will probably last 10 trouble-free years in the loving hands of an "advanced amateur."

If you are a professional, you need to have professional tools. Not excuses.

Put it this way: I have a toaster, had it 10 years already, and will probably still have it in 2020. It makes me two slices of "restaurant quality" toast every Saturday and Sunday morning. I'm not delusional enough to think it would last a week in a busy restaurant, but it suits me just fine. Do you get what I'm saying? Probably not.


----------



## privatebydesign (Apr 28, 2015)

Bernard said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > I have used the 6D for pro shoots, I would happily use the 6D for weddings.
> ...



I did read what you wrote, I disagreed with it because it is garbage. I wasn't referring to IQ either.

The 6D is every bit as usable at a wedding as a 1Ds. It rained at weddings before we used 135 format and any cameras had 'weatherproofing', which is a largely bullsh!t term anyway as there is no standard that is applied to the 'weather sealing' of any Canon camera. We used to have assistants to hold umbrellas before weatherproofing, last I checked, although they are old technology, that is still pretty effective.

Of course the 6D does not have the robustness of the 1 series, but it is plenty robust enough for pro work and anybody that thinks it isn't is delusional. I recently shot a couple of high end villas in the Caribbean with a 6D, it rained four out of five days and the camera worked perfectly through it all.

We need to get over ourselves, cameras today are so ridiculously good even the most basic models are more than good enough for many pro uses, and I am not talking about IQ, I am talking about AF, feature sets and durability. Would I expect my 1DS MkIII's to outlive a 6D? Sure, but that wouldn't stop me doing pro work with the five 6D's I could buy for the same money as I paid for the 1DS MkIII.

P.S. I might be in the minority here but my definition of a 'professional camera', is any camera in the hands (or under the control) of a professional photographer.


----------



## Crosswind (Apr 28, 2015)

martti said:


> Will they come in other colors than black?
> Once upon the time there were cool khaki and titanium color cameras.
> Why not any more?



That would be pretty cool. Some kind of special limited edition. Like the SL1 white edition. 

+ solid tilt-able display
+ ISO 102400 LiveView (up from current ISO 12800)
+ improved DR & low-light performance
+ 20x digital LiveView-zoom (up from 10x)

Anything else is not so important to me.


----------



## Matthew Saville (Apr 29, 2015)

Bernard said:


> Matthew Saville said:
> 
> 
> > It's about having an immediate backup that is in your pocket or somewhere else, in case your bag or camera gets stolen at a wedding.
> ...



Isn't the 6D weather sealed? At least a little bit? Besides, I've shot weddings with plenty of un-sealed cameras. I keep a backup camera in my bag, of course, but no I'm not afraid of a little rain, nor am I afraid to use a camera with a single card slot. I just prefer to avoid both, if the option is presented to me.

BTW yes, having dual card slots is NOT a protection against stupidity. In fact, it makes your workflow more complicated, because you have to format two sets of cards afterwards, and this creates another possibility for confusion. I would only recommend using dual card slots in a professional environment if you are, in fact, an experienced professional with a solid workflow. Otherwise you might wind up accidentally deleting your RAW photos and shooting over them on the card before you realize all you downloaded was low-res JPGs. I've lost count of how many forum topics I've seen from folks who screwed up bigtime because they rented / borrowed professional equipment they weren't familiar with to shoot their first big job.

Either way, Bernard, it is clear that you are a die-hard fan of flagship cameras, and are wholly against the professional use of lesser cameras. I can get behind that, to an extent.

A serious, full-time pro should consider a 5D mk3 / D810 etc. to be the "proper tool" for most jobs. In fact I've scolded a few friends for thinking a 6D, or a D600, is all they'll ever need.

However, aside from the select few who are under-equipping themselves for serious work, I think we can agree that most of the buyers of any of these cameras aren't more than weekend warriors, or hobbyists, who will do just fine shooting their nephew's wedding with their 6D. The world will not explode. (Nor will they put US out of business)

Really, the only reason we're complaining right now is that Canon has decided not to respond to the D750 yet. In fact Nikon has three full-frame DSLRs that released for under $3K; Canon has one. (The 5D mk3, though it may be had for under $3K nowadays, MSRP'd at $3500)


----------



## Don Haines (Apr 29, 2015)

Bernard said:


> Hold on a minute. You are talking about shooting weddings with a 6D? It's a lovely camera, but what happens when it rains?



It doesn't matter how waterproof your camera is.... the bride is inside, out of the rain....


----------



## Don Haines (Apr 29, 2015)

Bernard said:


> You didn't read what I wrote. I never said the image quality wasn't good enough. I said it wasn't a professional camera.
> 
> If it rains at a wedding (it will), you know the shot the bride wants will have you out in the rain while the wedding party is covered and looking out. You have to get that shot, no negotiation, no excuses. You and your camera will get soaked, but that isn't your customer's problem. You took the job, you presented yourself as a professional, end of story.
> 
> The 6D is a fine camera, but it's not built to shoot in a monsoon every weekend and suffer innumerable bumps and bruises (and snow and dust and sand and spilled drinks). Using it that way is foolish, even though it will probably last 10 trouble-free years in the loving hands of an "advanced amateur."


Part of my kit is an umbrella


----------



## Don Haines (Apr 29, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> I might be in the minority here but my definition of a 'professional camera', is any camera in the hands (or under the control) of a professional photographer.


+1


----------



## eninja (Apr 29, 2015)

If I was an amateur, I would choose a single sdcard slot. Even as a professional, I never had experience sdcard or slot fail. That makes as a consumer I would think that a camera that has two slots is just marketing and unnecessary weight.

Regarding swivel screen. I rather get no swivel screen to be recognize as a professional camera, after all it is a full frame, and with highest ISO IQ.

This is my opinion from consumer perspective.

WIFI is a must for everything now. Afterall, photo was made to share.


----------



## eninja (Apr 29, 2015)

K said:


> Canon will likely not include. I will not buy. Done.



I would. For the experts, what is the odd of sdcard or sdcard slot fails? or in other words, what is the chances that I would lost a photo (un recoverable) if incase sdcard or slot fails.

I hope someone can answer my query.

Thanks.


----------



## eninja (Apr 29, 2015)

Lee Jay said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > However, Nikon offers all those features, all together in a camera for less money.
> ...



Everything has a compromise after all. Like as per normal, there is more of those who don't understand than understand. If I would be asked which company I would like to work. I choose Canon.


----------



## Spokagrapher (Apr 29, 2015)

Zv said:


> This K fella doesn't seem to get the point that just because the features he needs are not present in the 6D or 6DII it means Canon are somehow ripping us off.


I don't have any reasons to believe Canon is ripping off anyone via the 6D. It's not like we're forced to choose Canon or the 6D. I chose it for practical reasons I already explained. It fits my budget, and I don’t need the things it doesn’t have. 



Zv said:


> Now let's drop this already and speculate on the 6DII's OTHER features!


Let’s do! Here’s what I want to see: 1) improved sensor with more resolution; 2) flash sync at 1/250th; 3) improved auto-focus, at least to the level of the 60D re: number of focus points, if not the 70D; 4) shutter durability to at least 150,000 actuations. If it has these improvements, and if the street price is not prohibitive, it’ll be hard for me to pass on this camera. I’m not looking for a 5D-something in 6D garb … just a good camera that does what I need for a good price.


----------



## Lee Jay (Apr 29, 2015)

eninja said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > Canon will likely not include. I will not buy. Done.
> ...



When my CF card died, I was able to recover all but 6 images. Sandisk recovered 5 of those 6. When my SD card died, I lost no images. So, in 11 years I've lost two cards and 1 image.


----------



## eninja (Apr 29, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> The Flasher said:
> 
> 
> > This just popped up on petapixel, re liability, data etc.
> ...




I started event shooting for client which includes wedding. 

I guess I need to remove 'format card' from my shotcut.
I usually check remaining memory from 'format card', 
I guess I should avoid this also.

I transfer data from card to laptop. 
Eject Card and Never uses that card until photo was delivered to client or backup jpeg at least.
Did you mentioned this practice before Neuro?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Apr 29, 2015)

eninja said:


> I transfer data from card to laptop.
> Eject Card and Never uses that card until photo was delivered to client or backup jpeg at least.
> Did you mentioned this practice before Neuro?



Yes, except for the delivery to client bit. I keep the images on the card until they're on my SSD and backed up to at least one (usually two) external drives in different locations.


----------



## Sporgon (Apr 29, 2015)

Bernard said:


> Matthew Saville said:
> 
> 
> > It's about having an immediate backup that is in your pocket or somewhere else, in case your bag or camera gets stolen at a wedding.
> ...



There's some remarkable drivel being turned out in this thread regarding the 6D. How many brides do you see soaked ? Apart from ones which fall into pools. Which is more unprofessional, turning up to shoot a wedding on your own with one 5DIII or turning up with two 6D s, an assistant and an umbrella ? 

And if I remember rightly, the first cameras to have two card slots had them to enable the use of either CF or SD cards, they didn't have two CF or two SD. I've never had a card fail, and they are so small and light you can keep them securely on your person when not in the camera. 

Another point on the 6D specs that people who obsess about 'features' don't seems to understand, ( and I suppose that in itself is understandable on a gear based forum like CR), is that there are many who prefer reasonable simplicity and don't want the option of multiple card slots, 84 AF points, 102 pages of menus and so on. The fact that the 6D sells as it does is testament to this. There are aspects of the 6D that I don't like ( cheaper incarnation of the rear wheel for instance, my 6D hobbyhorse) but other don't seem that bothered, and that's the way it is. 

In terms of reliability I have only ever had one slr / dslr fail on me in thirty years: the mirror fell out of a 5D. In the event I was able to get back up and running very quickly by glueing the mirror back in.


----------



## Crosswind (Apr 29, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Instead of 5x and 20x, how about "50%" and "100%" views?



As with the EOS 6D, there is already the option to choose 100% zoom (see menu). I'd love a 20x zoom for astrophotography purposes, where 10x can be a bit difficult to decide if the stars are 100% in focus or not, esp. with fisheye or ultrawideangle optics. There are also other applications where I'd wish a 20x digital zoom, but it's nothing of a big deal. My other 3 points are much more important to me such as ISO 102400 LiveView, tilting screen & improved sensor performance.


----------



## Bernard (Apr 29, 2015)

Sporgon said:


> There's some remarkable drivel being turned out in this thread regarding the 6D. How many brides do you see soaked ? Apart from ones which fall into pools. Which is more unprofessional, turning up to shoot a wedding on your own with one 5DIII or turning up with two 6D s, an assistant and an umbrella ?



It's not about the bride getting soaked (although that happens), it's about where you need to be in order to get the shot. If it's raining hard when the bride's car pulls-up to the church, you still need to get that shot. You can try picking it off with a long lens from inside the church, but the angle is wrong, and the bride will wonder why you aren't there (she is, after all). You can have an assistant follow you around with an umbrella, but that's awkward, and your assistant should really be covering the groom and attendees inside.

What do you do? Miss the shot and hope nobody will notice, or get the shot and risk having to tell the wedding party to hold-off for an hour because your camera needs to dry-out?
You can go to your spare camera, but it's going to rain all day, and you need to get the shot when the bride and groom come out of the church. You don't want to have two inoperative cameras before you even get to formals and the reception.

The answer, of course, is that you use the proper tools, because you are a professional.
The real difference between professionals and amateurs is that professionals get the shot, no matter what. That's why you pay them money, even though uncle Larry will be there with the latest "hot" camera. There's always an uncle Larry, and he always has the latest gear, and he always interrupts you to ask incredibly basic questions, and he always tries to hijack the shots you've set-up (usually by standing between you and the bride).
Uncle Larry doesn't deliver the goods, but he spends more on equipment than you do. He read somewhere that he needs two card slots, so he sold all his Canon gear for pennies and moved to Nikon, but he's thinking of dumping Nikon for the new Sony, even though he had Sony before Canon. He's a good guy to know if you want to pick-up lightly used gear.


----------



## AcutancePhotography (Apr 29, 2015)

I would think a rain hood of some sort covering the camera/lens would be the simplest mitigating solution in case of a cloud burst. 

But then I have a innate distrust for what the camera marketing department calls "weather sealing". ;D


----------



## Eldar (Apr 29, 2015)

A good reason for dual memory card slots ... (even though this guy screwed up later)

http://petapixel.com/2015/04/28/wedding-photographer-ordered-to-pay-couple-8800-after-losing-photos/


----------



## Bernard (Apr 29, 2015)

Eldar said:


> A good reason for dual memory card slots ... (even though this guy screwed up later)



I don't think that twice the complexity would have helped. The photographer broke the basic rule of memory card management. The monetary penalty seems fair, maybe a little on the low side.

As I've mentioned before, there are some very simple rules that will keep you out of trouble:

Never delete or format a card in the field
Never buy suspect memory cards (ebay, etc)
Never keep a card more than two years
Never format until you've made a copy and a backup

The other obvious rule is "never remove a card that's being written-to," but that's not an issue now that cards are so fast. Back in the day, the "write" led would keep flashing for 5-10 seconds after you took a few pictures.


----------



## kphoto99 (Apr 29, 2015)

There are actual standards for water profness (yes I made up that word), http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IP_Code
Please tell me what IP level Canon professional cameras meet and what level does 6D meet.
In the absence of an answer, the best solution would be to have a rain hood over the camera, any camera. What do they cost, about $30? Best tool for the job, problem solved.


----------



## AcutancePhotography (Apr 29, 2015)

Eldar said:


> A good reason for dual memory card slots ... (even though this guy screwed up later)
> 
> http://petapixel.com/2015/04/28/wedding-photographer-ordered-to-pay-couple-8800-after-losing-photos/



I am trying to figure out how he could have deleted the images in such a way as to make them non-recoverable. If you accidently format a card, unless you use it, you can usually get most of the images back. 

The cynic in me wonders if this guy just took lousy pictures and hoped that he could con the couple.


----------



## candyman (Apr 29, 2015)

Bernard said:


> <snip>
> 
> As I've mentioned before, there are some very simple rules that will keep you out of trouble:
> 
> ...




I read your simple rules. From the point of riskmanagement, I understand.
I use CF-cards of Lexar - bought in 2010 to use with my 7D. Done a lot of soccer photos in AI servo. Since 2012 I use them with my 5D MK III. I never take them out to transfer files - I use the USB cable. I only take the card out to replace a full card and insert an empty one. I always format the card in camera.
Never had any problem. Still using those cards. That's about 5 years. I do believe companies like Sandisk, Lexar and Transcend developed well designed, well built and reliable cards. You treat those cards as they recommend, then you can use them a looong time.


----------



## bdunbar79 (Apr 29, 2015)

Bernard said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > There's some remarkable drivel being turned out in this thread regarding the 6D. How many brides do you see soaked ? Apart from ones which fall into pools. Which is more unprofessional, turning up to shoot a wedding on your own with one 5DIII or turning up with two 6D s, an assistant and an umbrella ?
> ...



I guess I'm not getting your argument. You continue to preach that the 6D isn't professional. After reading several of your "gospels" I guess I'm like, ok, so the 6D isn't pro. And so what? Why are you arguing that? Who cares? This thread is about features people want to see in a 6D Mark II and really, who gives a crap whether it's pro or not?


----------



## AcutancePhotography (Apr 29, 2015)

Bernard said:


> Never keep a card more than two years



Well yeah, I guess the best solution is to only use a card once, save it, and never delete the data, but that is impractical and rather expensive. 

No form of electronic data storage is 100% reliable. The key is how close can we get? I think that with good quality brand name cards and reasonable care in operations, we are in the 99*% reliability zone. 

How much is getting to 99.5% worth and how much will a customer be willing to pay for it?

*With the understanding that 37.438% of all statistics posted on the Internets Tubes have false precision. ;D


----------



## Sporgon (Apr 29, 2015)

Bernard said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > There's some remarkable drivel being turned out in this thread regarding the 6D. How many brides do you see soaked ? Apart from ones which fall into pools. Which is more unprofessional, turning up to shoot a wedding on your own with one 5DIII or turning up with two 6D s, an assistant and an umbrella ?
> ...



The 6D survived.

Alas, the bride's veil did not.

Bernard, perhaps you could give me some tips on how to keep driving rain off the front element ?


----------



## bdunbar79 (Apr 29, 2015)

Just for the record, it took Nikon 4 cameras to compete with the 5D Mark III: D800, D800E, D810, D750. Off topic.


----------



## AcutancePhotography (Apr 29, 2015)

bdunbar79 said:


> Just for the record, it took Nikon 4 cameras to compete with the 5D Mark III: D800, D800E, D810, D750. Off topic.



So if you knew it was off topic, why post it here? (scratching head)


----------



## bdunbar79 (Apr 29, 2015)

AcutancePhotography said:


> bdunbar79 said:
> 
> 
> > Just for the record, it took Nikon 4 cameras to compete with the 5D Mark III: D800, D800E, D810, D750. Off topic.
> ...



Obviously you didn't read the whole thread. You could keep scratching your head or find the conversation where Nikon cameras were mentioned, over and over again. At least I had the balls to finally point out that it was probably off topic.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Apr 29, 2015)

Sporgon said:


> Bernard, perhaps you could give me some tips on how to keep driving rain off the front element ?



A truly professional pro uses the right professional tool to professionally complete the job. For getting water off the front element, apparently this is the professional's best pro tool for the job, professionally speaking. 







I think the handlebar mustache is optional.


----------



## Bernard (Apr 29, 2015)

Sporgon said:


> Bernard, perhaps you could give me some tips on how to keep driving rain off the front element ?




Lens hood.

You're welcome.

Seriously, I keep lens tissues in a sealed plastic bag, plus some pre-moistened lens cloths. I'm sure almost everybody else does that. A few drops of rain don't detract from the ambience if your subject is also in the rain, just wipe your lens when you get in.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Apr 29, 2015)

Bernard said:


> Lens hood.
> 
> You're welcome.








Hmmm, yeah - that'll work. : : :


----------



## Sporgon (Apr 29, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Bernard said:
> 
> 
> > Lens hood.
> ...



How did you know I used that exact lens hood !? Damn, I'm so predictable. Or maybe the shot was quite obviously around 24 mil 

I imagine those moustaches would make a right mess of your rear screen if you'd had soup for lunch.


----------



## jeffa4444 (Apr 29, 2015)

Im less interested in the MP increase and more interested in DR and color space. The 6D weaknesses are banding in large areas of one plain color (like fog), although not excessive. AF points which should have been at least 19 like the 7D and all cross type, and correcting the GPS battery drain issue if its still enabled when the camera is turned-off. I would also like to see in-camera the peripheral illumination correction updated to cover lenses like the EF 16-35mm f4L IS USM (why is this not in a firmware update Canon?)(Yes correction is available in Lightroom CC etc). 

The 6D is a very capable camera already small tweaks would make it more of an all-round camera without stepping on the toes of the 5D MKIII / IV.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Apr 29, 2015)

Maybe we should launch a Kickstarter campaign for a front element equivalent of the 'tear-offs' used by race car drivers. We could team up with the guys who did the Dust Donut and _boom_ – every Rebel with kit lens becomes a *pro* camera.


----------



## privatebydesign (Apr 29, 2015)

jeffa4444 said:


> Im less interested in the MP increase and more interested in DR and color space. The 6D weaknesses are banding in large areas of one plain color (like fog), although not excessive. AF points which should have been at least 19 like the 7D and all cross type, and correcting the GPS battery drain issue if its still enabled when the camera is turned-off. I would also like to see in-camera the peripheral illumination correction updated to cover lenses like the EF 16-35mm f4L IS USM (why is this not in a firmware update Canon?)(Yes correction is available in Lightroom CC etc).
> 
> The 6D is a very capable camera already small tweaks would make it more of an all-round camera without stepping on the toes of the 5D MKIII / IV.



That sounds like a workflow or viewing error. Is there any evidence to suggest 6D RAW files are not true 14bit? Certainly I haven't seen anything like that with the 6D files I have worked with. Could you post an example?


----------



## Matthew Saville (Apr 29, 2015)

bdunbar79 said:


> Just for the record, it took Nikon 4 cameras to compete with the 5D Mark III: D800, D800E, D810, D750. Off topic.



Considering that I'd rather have my 1-card slot, 12 megapixel D700 than a 5D mk3, I dunno about that. Also, since high FPS aren't very critical to weddings, I'd say the D800 fairly competed with the 5D3.

In fact shooting white gowns in dark churches, I wouldn't in a million years trade 2-3 stops of DR for an extra couple FPS.

Let's get back on topic, lol...


----------



## wsmith96 (Apr 29, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Maybe we should launch a Kickstarter campaign for a front element equivalent of the 'tear-offs' used by race car drivers. We could team up with the guys who did the Dust Donut and _boom_ – every Rebel with kit lens becomes a *pro* camera.



I'm betting 3M already makes this somewhere in their catalog.


----------



## bdunbar79 (Apr 29, 2015)

Matthew Saville said:


> bdunbar79 said:
> 
> 
> > Just for the record, it took Nikon 4 cameras to compete with the 5D Mark III: D800, D800E, D810, D750. Off topic.
> ...



I don't understand your statement. Are you shooting the white gowns in the dark churches at low ISO? Because that's the only place you have more DR: low ISO. By ISO 1600 the 5D3 catches the D800. Even at 800 it's only 0.7 stops difference. At ISO 100 the gap is huge (2.4 stops). 

On the sales topic I was going off the fact that the 5D3 outsold the D800/E combined on amazon. That's the only real camera-specific data we have.


----------



## Matthew Saville (Apr 30, 2015)

bdunbar79 said:


> Matthew Saville said:
> 
> 
> > bdunbar79 said:
> ...



True, the Canons catch up at higher ISOs. I hear the 6D sensor even beats the Nikons, past 1600. I'd love a 6D if all I shot was astro-landscapes, I'd rather have its 12800 images than from any other Nikon, save the Df.

But yes, to answer your question, with a fast lens and a steady hand, I can often pull off ISO 100-400 even in dimly lit situations. And since my hobby is landscape photography, I always have a tripod at my weddings too.

BTW I would never buy a camera based on sales figures, ever. Sales figures do indicate that a camera is good, even great, I'll grant that. But they aren't at all an indicator of actual superiority.


----------



## zlatko (Apr 30, 2015)

sanj said:


> Zv said:
> 
> 
> > Bernard said:
> ...



Exactly. It's another case of someone wanting the features of the more expensive product but at the price of the cheaper product, and then blaming the manufacturer for this huge "insult" because this particular feature wasn't included at the price this buyer wanted to pay. If I felt that way, I would have left Canon a long time ago.

Maybe Canon knows that most of their 6D buyers don't care, and doesn't want to make every 6D customer pay extra just to please a few that want dual cards. Or maybe the 6D is the successor to a long line of very successful single card slot cameras in the same price range.

But Canon has also offered dual slot cameras for ages, going back at least to the 1D Mark II (2004). All one had to do to get dual cards was pay the price at the camera store ... and, just like that, a dual card camera would come home with you.

It's like a photography client wanting extra services included for a bargain price, and then being "insulted" that the photographer won't comply. And, yes, the 6D is the bargain full frame camera in the product line. It's not the flagship, nor is it the number 2.


----------



## zlatko (Apr 30, 2015)

Bernard said:


> It's not about the bride getting soaked (although that happens), it's about where you need to be in order to get the shot. If it's raining hard when the bride's car pulls-up to the church, you still need to get that shot. You can try picking it off with a long lens from inside the church, but the angle is wrong, and the bride will wonder why you aren't there (she is, after all). You can have an assistant follow you around with an umbrella, but that's awkward, and your assistant should really be covering the groom and attendees inside.



I've shot a lot of weddings and I don't agree. If it's raining hard, is the bride waiting out there in the rain? Of course not. Someone gets an umbrella and they quickly get from car to church. You can photograph that arrival perfectly well from the church doorway. You don't need to be glued to a spot outside in the hard rain. And you don't even need a long lens; the bride is not crossing a football field to get from the car to the church. So you will get the shot and the bride won't wonder why you weren't "there" because "there" is not some spot outside in a hard rain.


----------



## Bernard (Apr 30, 2015)

dilbert said:


> And that is the difference between being an Internet armchair expert and someone with real experience.



It's the difference between getting "the shot" and getting "a shot." If all you want to deliver is "a shot," then it's easy to stay dry and comfortable. The problem is that every guest with a smart phone is getting the same shot, which makes it hard to justify your rate. Their shots will be just as good, and they'll be on Instagram within seconds.

If the only thing keeping you in business is the fact that the officiant asks guests not to take pictures during the ceremony, then you are doing something wrong.


----------



## rifz (Apr 30, 2015)

GREAT!  so the will build a new camera before the bothering to fix the beta crAPPware to use Wifi! because the app is "free" they never have to improve it or make it user friendly.    that was one big reason I bought the 6D is I wanted wireless tether.


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## jcarapet (Apr 30, 2015)

Bernard said:


> K, why is "single slot" such a big issue? As far as I'm concerned, dual card slots are a throwback to the days of unreliable, low capacity memory cards. Some professionals might want dual slots when covering "no reshoot" events, but I'm OK with skipping that feature on Canon's low-cost full frame camera.



Agreed. I can understand it from a professional level of data redundancy or storing different format photos on each card, but otherwise it's not 100% necessary on entry level full frame. I am a hobbyist/semi-pro and only use my SD card slot. a 64gb card will get me through a day of shooting no problem on my 5d3, including football or rugby matches I shoot.


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## Sporgon (Apr 30, 2015)

Bernard said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > And that is the difference between being an Internet armchair expert and someone with real experience.
> ...



Your confidence in the 'professional' weather sealing of the 5DIII is no doubt heartwarming for any naive 5DIII owners out there, but is misplaced. In reality the gaskets used on the 5DIII seem to be the same sponge strips that the 6D uses, and even Canon themselves state both camera's sealing levels are "the same as the film 1 series". It's worth remembering that even those last film cameras were not as much a mobile computer as to day's cameras are. 

I would feel as vulnerable in heavy rain with a 5DIII as I would a 6D. Even with a 1D series, which do have proper rubber ring gaskets, most users try to give some protection in heavy rain. 

The problem with shooting in a downpour is that water gets everywhere, including your front element, and as has been pointed out, lens hoods for a standard zoom are no use whatsoever. In practice I've found the only safe way to shoot in rain is to stop the rain reaching your camera in the first place.

I'm afraid your comments on wiping the front element or filter with a tissue rather give the game away when it comes to your experience. As I said earlier, water gets everywhere; your hands are wet, your coat and sleeves dripping in water. If you are wearing a hat it pours water down onto your camera as you look down. If you are not wearing a hat it runs off your hair and into your eyes. Remember this is a wedding you are talking about; things are happening quickly and wont be repeated. The only way I will shoot in the rain now is from under a large golfing umbrella, and even then it's a struggle to keep water off the camera.


----------



## zlatko (Apr 30, 2015)

Bernard said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > And that is the difference between being an Internet armchair expert and someone with real experience.
> ...



OK, here we go again. No, the guests will not get that shot. The ceremony is about to begin when the bride arrives, so the guests are *seated* inside the church. They can't _see_ the bride's arrival outside, let alone get a smart phone photo of it. They are not crowding the church doorway as the bride is entering. So they won't get the same shot and it won't be on Instagram. You seem to have some fixed idea about what "the shot" is, but let me assure you that it does not require the photographer to be stuck outside in a hard rain. That's not reasonable.


----------



## bdunbar79 (Apr 30, 2015)

If you've learned anything from this thread (and I know I haven't) it's that Bernard has never shot a wedding. That's really the only logical conclusion I can draw.


----------



## AcutancePhotography (Apr 30, 2015)

bdunbar79 said:


> If you've learned anything from this thread (and I know I haven't) it's that Bernard has never shot a wedding. That's really the only logical conclusion I can draw.



One thing we all should have learned is that ad hominem attacks never settle any discussion. Bernard may have a different opinion from yours, but different does not mean wrong.


----------



## bdunbar79 (Apr 30, 2015)

AcutancePhotography said:


> bdunbar79 said:
> 
> 
> > If you've learned anything from this thread (and I know I haven't) it's that Bernard has never shot a wedding. That's really the only logical conclusion I can draw.
> ...



Who said he was wrong? It just gets tiresome that when someone posts someone else keeps responding and repeating the same things over and over and over again, despite well-established and highly-skilled and experienced wedding photographers telling him "no." 

Besides all of that, what's the point? No pro wedding photographer should ever buy and shoot with a 6D? What garbage.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Apr 30, 2015)

Sporgon said:


> Your confidence in the 'professional' weather sealing of the 5DIII is no doubt heartwarming for any naive 5DIII owners out there, but is misplaced. In reality the gaskets used on the 5DIII seem to be the same sponge strips that the 6D uses...



As we all know, pros must use pro tools. Clearly, the only current Canon pro camera is the 1D X. Previously, pros had a choice of the 1DsIII or 1DIV, though I'm sure wedding professionals would be using a pair of 1DsIII bodies. Certainly, no wedding professional worthy of the name would have used a 5DII, with its AF system unable to track brides as they run down the aisle, its shoddy weather sealing and pathetic single card slot. :


----------



## ashmadux (Apr 30, 2015)

Who are we all fooling? The 6D- that i own (and selling!)- just needs a decent Af system. The 9pt system, 1 cross point garbage doesnt belong on ANY camera in this age. Its an embarrasment.

If the 6d body didnt have the spectacular iso it does (never worry about iso with this camera- love that), or quite lighter than a 5dmk3, it would be a huge joke. But it does have those qualities, so its the capable but meh 6d we all know and love.

That said, i bought a 5d3 before my all important trip to japan, and there is nothing like a dependable af system. Spot focusing at 100 feet away with a 50 1.4 (!) has me giddy as a school kid with a 50cent cake.


----------



## Matthew Saville (Apr 30, 2015)

AcutancePhotography said:


> bdunbar79 said:
> 
> 
> > If you've learned anything from this thread (and I know I haven't) it's that Bernard has never shot a wedding. That's really the only logical conclusion I can draw.
> ...



I don't know how anybody is still talking about this; the Canon 6D has weather sealing. Bernard can have whatever opinion he wants, but if the 6D has weather sealing, the whole rainy wedding discussion is pointless. You're 10x more likely to kill your camera by accidentally leaving a PC sync port open, or changing lenses when you shouldn't, or by using an un-sealed lens of course.

Of all my years of using digital cameras in the rain, from completely un-sealed beginner cameras to flagships, I've NEVER had a problem as long as the camera has its ports properly covered etc.

BTW, I'm not just talking from an armchair here. I'm this kind of person, lol: https://youtu.be/1eD1aTem1Dk


----------



## Don Haines (Apr 30, 2015)

dilbert said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > Bernard said:
> ...


My camera bag (backpack style.... I like to keep my hands free) has a holder for carrying a tripod which works perfectly to hold an umbrella handle.


----------



## ashmadux (Apr 30, 2015)

Crap focus system, and you guys are worried about weather sealing...okay.

How about being able to do non center focusing in that weather...good luck with that,


----------



## Matthew Saville (Apr 30, 2015)

ashmadux said:


> Crap focus system, and you guys are worried about weather sealing...okay.
> 
> How about being able to do non center focusing in that weather...good luck with that,



That's exactly why I don't understand how everybody has spent all this time debating the 6D's ability to shoot a bride in the rain. The 6D's main (only?) major drawback is its off-center AF points.

If it even had just a stretched out diamond pattern of cross-type AF points, it'd be a killer camera. We don't need 51 or 61, we just need a few more cross-type points that are spread out closer to the 2/3 areas.

In this day and age when even Pentax has been putting 9 (11?) cross-type AF points in its cheapest beginner DSLRs, this is clearly just a calculated tactic from Canon's corporate decision makers. 

In fact I'd bet $$ that there's one or two Canon engineers somewhere who are very pissed off right now, because they know they could design a killer AF system that costs just as much as the 6D's, but they're being told "nope, we wanna stick with the no-cross diamond pattern! Party like it's 2004!"


----------



## AcutancePhotography (Apr 30, 2015)

Matthew Saville said:


> I would like to point out that there is a huge difference between "weather sealing" and "weather sealed".
> 
> A camera manufacturer can install one piece of foam and the marketing department can rightfully say that the camera "has weather sealing". Unless the camera has been subjected to an IP test weather sealing means only what the marketing department wants it to mean.
> 
> I treat all my cameras as being "weather vulnerable" and take precautions.


----------



## zlatko (Apr 30, 2015)

I don't know what it costs to design a killer AF system, but I do just fine with the 6D's AF system. Center point on the 6D is excellent. In fact, it's one of the best in low light (goes to -3EV). Other points are useable, certainly not crap — you just have to know how they work. One focus point is usually enough for me, regardless of which camera I am using. I use the 5D3 as well, and of course it's better. But for the price the 6D does just fine. With Leica M cameras you get exactly one focus point (patch in the middle) and it's manual focus, and people have made some great photos with Leica.


----------



## exquisitor (Apr 30, 2015)

dilbert said:


> I tell you what, I wouldn't mind a tripod that came with an umbrella holder in/on it somewhere! Or something that you could attach to a tripod to do that...


http://www.digitalcameraworld.com/2012/09/20/diy-photography-hacks-stay-dry-with-a-hands-free-umbrella-holder-for-your-tripod/
or


----------



## jeffa4444 (Apr 30, 2015)

ashmadux said:


> Crap focus system, and you guys are worried about weather sealing...okay.
> 
> How about being able to do non center focusing in that weather...good luck with that,



Ive got around 5500 shots taken with the 6D the only poor focus shots were user error not down to the camera. Bad workmen always blame their tools. The 5DMIII Ive taken thousands of shots with similar level of out of focus shots all user error.


----------



## candyman (Apr 30, 2015)

exquisitor said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > I tell you what, I wouldn't mind a tripod that came with an umbrella holder in/on it somewhere! Or something that you could attach to a tripod to do that...
> ...




That's a funny one.
Usually you have some wind that comes with the rain. It will blow against or under the umbrella. That will cause vibration on the tripod and camera. Sharp image?
I would use a separate stand and attach the umbrella to that.


----------



## Bernard (Apr 30, 2015)

bdunbar79 said:


> If you've learned anything from this thread (and I know I haven't) it's that Bernard has never shot a wedding. That's really the only logical conclusion I can draw.



Good to know that you know you haven't.
I agree with what you know you don't know, but obviously the thing you know others should know is incorrect, as you know.


----------



## eninja (Apr 30, 2015)

jeffa4444 said:


> ashmadux said:
> 
> 
> > Crap focus system, and you guys are worried about weather sealing...okay.
> ...



+1


----------



## Sporgon (Apr 30, 2015)

Crosswind said:


> And please keep it civil, there are no cavemen over here... or at least I think so. Thank you very much.



At least a caveman would be able to shoot from his dry cave when it's raining. Perhaps that's what gave Canon the idea of a stone age AF system..... :-X

Seriously though, I'm one of those whom has no issues with the AF system on the 6D. It is improved from the 5D / 5DII, I believe it's a closed loop or something; it will react and reconfirm if not on target, whereas the 5D didn't. Certainly tests done by Roger at Lens Rentals showed it to be much more accurate than the older 5D. However in the sort of shooting I do there is generally time, when using an outer point, to consider the orientation of the contrast I am trying to focus on, so it matches the orientation required by the AF point. I can understand that people who shoot in environments that don't allow this will find the system frustrating compared with cameras that has x or + outer points. 

We all have different desires and requirements. For myself to 'up grade' to a 6DII I would want a full mag alloy body ( purely psychosomatic on my part), firmer user interface on the controls and an up grade to the 'wheel + 8 way controller' on the back. 1/8000 is useful for very fast lenses, but then I accept you can't have everything in a cheaper model. Not bothered about the tiny difference in flash sync; I use HSS anyway.


----------



## bdunbar79 (Apr 30, 2015)

Bernard said:


> bdunbar79 said:
> 
> 
> > If you've learned anything from this thread (and I know I haven't) it's that Bernard has never shot a wedding. That's really the only logical conclusion I can draw.
> ...



Ok, so, what do you use then? What camera do YOU use for weddings? 1Dx? 1Ds3? 1D4? Which one? If the 6D is not pro enough, seriously, which one do you use? If you shoot weddings fine, but I just would like to know which camera you use and why.


----------



## exquisitor (Apr 30, 2015)

candyman said:


> That's a funny one.
> Usually you have some wind that comes with the rain. It will blow against or under the umbrella. That will cause vibration on the tripod and camera. Sharp image?
> I would use a separate stand and attach the umbrella to that.


If the tripod will be used only as a support for the umbrella, shooting at daylight, it would be fine. Anyway if there is a wind, the whole point of the umbrella is gone, it won't help. I prefer to use rain cover, it's more flexible and can be used with or without tripod.


----------



## Bernard (Apr 30, 2015)

bdunbar79 said:


> Ok, so, what do you use then? What camera do YOU use for weddings? 1Dx? 1Ds3? 1D4? Which one? If the 6D is not pro enough, seriously, which one do you use? If you shoot weddings fine, but I just would like to know which camera you use and why.



You got it about right. 1Dx and 1Ds3, albeit with a 5D2 as a backup's backup (never had to use it at an event, but good to know it's there). The three cameras colour-match very well.
Stick to primes, some old Leica, some Zeiss. I find you get better results if you know your lenses and go to where you need to be. No AF, but the chipped lenses do have focus confirmation (which is only ever useful for the aisle shot if the newly-married couple is in a hurry).

There's more than one way to cover weddings. This works for me.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Apr 30, 2015)

Bernard said:


> 1Dx and 1Ds3...some old Leica, some Zeiss.



Which of those lenses are weather sealed to match your 1-series bodies, for all that standing in the rain?


----------



## bdunbar79 (Apr 30, 2015)

Fair enough. I miss my 1Ds3. I also miss the 1/300s flash sync speed of the 1D4. But the IQ couldn't touch the 1Ds3.


----------



## neuroanatomist (May 1, 2015)

dilbert said:


> ashmadux said:
> 
> 
> > Who are we all fooling? The 6D- that i own (and selling!)- just needs a decent Af system. The 9pt system, 1 cross point garbage doesnt belong on ANY camera in this age. Its an embarrasment.
> ...



His real problem is that the 6D's AF system doesn't work for him. If you look back, the 7D's AF system didn't work for him, either. I wonder if he'd have the same problem if he tries a 1D X, I suspect he would.


----------



## Moulyneau (May 1, 2015)

Crosswind said:


> jeffa4444 said:
> 
> 
> > Ive got around 5500 shots taken with the 6D the only poor focus shots were user error not down to the camera.
> ...



If not for the AF, I really like the 6D but I use it only with wide angles like 8-15 and 16-35. And I do belong to the recomposing-haters, at least with fast lenses. Each his preferences... For example recomposing with the 35mm at 1.4, no way for me. Whenever AF is critical, e.g. primes or longer focal stuff, I'll grab the 5D3 anytime. 

Apart from the usual upgrade stuff, just wishing Canon will beef up the AF points to "today's" level. I for one don't give a rat's butt about dual card slot, but a joystick would make me drool. Most likely they won't add one but when you get used to it, it's difficult to live without!


----------



## super_newbie_pro (May 1, 2015)

28Mpx for the 6D MK II vs 20 for the 6D MK1 ... ==> The size of the photosites will be smaller ; Should we see this as bad news for low-light sensitivity ? SONY, to be better on that, has not diminished the size of photosites , but they have increased them on the SONY A7S with only 12Mpx ... Guests looking for a good camera to take pictures in very low light will they have to skip this 6D Mark II ?


----------



## JohnBran (May 1, 2015)

ashmadux said:


> Crap focus system, and you guys are worried about weather sealing...okay.
> 
> How about being able to do non center focusing in that weather...good luck with that,



+1 

Soo true!!!


----------



## JohnBran (May 1, 2015)

btw, can we return back to topic ...

i do wonder what is Canon planning with 6D Mk2. I'm in the marked for new FF camera and i'm sitting on the fence . This is the first time i'm considering leaving Canon. 
Right now 6D is selling for 1600 euro but Nikon D750 is 1800 euro! There is no question that Nikon is better camera so what will Canon deliver to compete with D750 that at point when 6Dmk2 comes out at about 2200 euro , D750 will probably fall down to 1300 euro ( guessing here that 6Dmk2 will come out in about year from now).


----------



## Bernard (May 1, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Which of those lenses are weather sealed to match your 1-series bodies, for all that standing in the rain?



If you've used high quality manual focus primes, you'll know that "weather sealing" is a non-issue. They don't pump air in and out like zooms do, and their machined focusing helicoids don't let water in. You do need to have them serviced every few years, but they keep working for decades. I still use one Zeiss 25 that I bought as a teenager in the 80's, and it's still sharper than any digital sensor I've attached it to. Can't wait to try it out on the 5Ds.


----------



## neuroanatomist (May 1, 2015)

Bernard said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Which of those lenses are weather sealed to match your 1-series bodies, for all that standing in the rain?
> ...



My concern was more about water ingress at the lens mount. The rubber gasket on 'sealed' L-series lenses is there for a reason...


----------



## Sporgon (May 1, 2015)

Bernard said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Which of those lenses are weather sealed to match your 1-series bodies, for all that standing in the rain?
> ...



Bernard; you're yanking the chain now. You do know where the first port of call is for water when it comes into contact with an interchangeable lens camera ?


----------



## privatebydesign (May 1, 2015)

Bernard said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Which of those lenses are weather sealed to match your 1-series bodies, for all that standing in the rain?
> ...



Bernard; you are fast becoming the new class clown.

The reason your 30 year old Zeiss seems impervious to moisture is not because of the engineering, any helicoid however finely machined lets in water unless both it and the tubes they are pushing have a seal, it is because it has no electronics for the moisture to damage.

As for your _"sharper than any digital sensor I've attached it to"_ comment, that just illustrates complete lack of understanding of another fundamental photography concept, system resolution.

So you are shooting weddings with a 1DS MkIII and 1DX along with manual focus and manual aperture lenses?


----------



## NancyP (May 1, 2015)

I don't really use the AF heavily on the 6D. I use AF confirmation with manual focus lenses, and I use tripod and magnified live view for critical focus (wide open, or checking hyperfocal range). So it does just fine for the landscape and macro stuff. Now, if this 6D2 camera had the increased dynamic range, 24 to 28 MP, and same old AF, I would be first in line. 

As for weddings, there are people out there shooting weddings with MF digital. 

Water resistance of lenses - try a plastic bag, shower cap, purpose made permanent camera cover. Yeah, PITA.


----------



## Sporgon (May 1, 2015)

NancyP said:


> I don't really use the AF heavily on the 6D. I use AF confirmation with manual focus lenses,



Just a thought: if you, myself and others are using old manual lenses with a 'dandelion' chip, what are the long term consequences for the gold plated contacts on the camera ? Decent modern manual EF mount lenses also have the gold contacts as per genuine EF lenses, but these dandelion chip contacts seem to be something like a cheap brass alloy, so I guess there could be an incompatibility in hardness.


----------



## Takingshots (May 1, 2015)

I am also sitting on the fence right now debating if I should move to Nikon D750 for IQ, Focus points, flip screen, more cross types, better dynamic range etc .... This will cost me money some plus the hassle ....


----------



## privatebydesign (May 1, 2015)

Takingshots said:


> I am also sitting on the fence right now debating if I should move to Nikon D750 for IQ, Focus points, flip screen, more cross types, better dynamic range etc .... This will cost me money some plus the hassle ....



My only major consideration in contemplating that decision would be lenses. If Nikon have the lenses you need (and the flash system, and the service) then I wouldn't think about moving twice, just do it and be happy.


----------



## Bernard (May 1, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> The reason your 30 year old Zeiss seems impervious to moisture is not because of the engineering, any helicoid however finely machined lets in water unless both it and the tubes they are pushing have a seal, it is because it has no electronics for the moisture to damage.
> 
> As for your _"sharper than any digital sensor I've attached it to"_ comment, that just illustrates complete lack of understanding of another fundamental photography concept, system resolution.



Wow! You seem to know everything, and yet...

So you agree that "weather sealing" isn't an issue with manual focus lenses, yet you disagree with the "reason" that I did not state (engineering?). Are you trying to keep this going for some reason?

I'm not sure if you seriously can't tell when a system is lens-limited or sensor-limited. I think you're just trying to be contrary but, if you're not, they look very different. When you are sensor-limited, things are sharp even at 1:1. When you are lens-limited, they are fuzzy at 1:1. I know the ultimate "sharpness" is a product of both factors (plus others like haze, camera shake, subject movement, subject contrast, etc). I guess I assumed that others know this, because I spent my youth looking at negatives through a grain magnifier.

If this helps you out, no need to thank me. If you were just being ornery, I'm sorry for you.


----------



## AcutancePhotography (May 1, 2015)

So what was this thread originally about?


----------



## nightscape123 (May 1, 2015)

Personally I just hope the 6dII can autofocus at f/8 so I can use a 1.4x on the new 100-400. I wouldn't be against a few more AF points for tracking animals/birds though either.


----------



## JohnBran (May 1, 2015)

AcutancePhotography said:


> So what was this thread originally about?



Wedding photographers, dual card slots and brides on the rainy day.


----------



## AcutancePhotography (May 1, 2015)

JohnBran said:


> AcutancePhotography said:
> 
> 
> > So what was this thread originally about?
> ...



That's what I thought. Weird title for a thread though. ;D


----------



## JohnBran (May 1, 2015)

AcutancePhotography said:


> JohnBran said:
> 
> 
> > AcutancePhotography said:
> ...



LOL  Yep


----------



## neuroanatomist (May 1, 2015)

Bernard said:


> So you agree that "weather sealing" isn't an issue with manual focus lenses, yet you disagree with the "reason" that I did not state (engineering?). Are you trying to keep this going for some reason?



Although PBD is correct about the reason 'sealing' isn't an issue for manual lenses, you're clearly missing the larger issue, both the gap that allows water ingress and the gap allowing your logic to leak out.


----------



## Matthew Saville (May 1, 2015)

jeffa4444 said:


> ashmadux said:
> 
> 
> > Crap focus system, and you guys are worried about weather sealing...okay.
> ...



Unless you forgot a zero, shooting five thousand images is not a lot when it comes to getting to know a camera. I've probably put 10K clicks on various 6D's, and I've never even owned one. I've probably put 50-100K clicks on other Canons throughout my career, again that I didn't own. I routinely put 50K clicks per 6-12 months on my Nikons.

The 6D's center AF point is indeed superb. I really love it for low-light candid work at weddings.

The problem is that people shoot very differently from each other. I hate to use the term "wedding photojournalist" because it usually describes folks who aren't very talented at either of the two, but suffice it to say that many folks out there REALLY need off-center, cross-type AF points that reach approximately to the 2/3 box area. The 6D is extremely limited in this way.

I'm sure the 6D AF system works fantastic for many folks, and most of my astro-landscape friends own 90% manual focus lenses anyways. But the fact remains- Canon engineers are certainly sitting on an affordable, killer AF system (the 7D mk2 costs $1800 and has a flagship AF system, even before the 1DX 2!!!) ...yet Canon has clearly decided to leave it out of the camera for up-sell purposes and nothing else.


----------



## Sporgon (May 1, 2015)

JohnBran said:


> AcutancePhotography said:
> 
> 
> > JohnBran said:
> ...



It seems that the general consensus on desirable features of a 6DII is that it is can track a bride running for the church door in pouring rain, and be suitably water proofed in order to achieve this without failing even when non weather sealed lenses are used. It should have dual card slots with a lockable door to stop wedding guests stealing them. And lastly the retail price should be raised to >$3500 so it can be professional.


----------



## Eldar (May 1, 2015)

Sporgon said:


> JohnBran said:
> 
> 
> > AcutancePhotography said:
> ...


 ;D ;D ;D


----------



## zlatko (May 1, 2015)

Matthew Saville said:


> jeffa4444 said:
> 
> 
> > ashmadux said:
> ...



It's not unreasonable to want great off-center AF. If you REALLY need it, Canon offers it three ways: 1DX, 5D3, 7D2.

But is it wrong for Canon to not offer that in the 6D? I don't think so. This is the bargain FF camera in the product line. Something has to make it the bargain, otherwise there's no reason for it to exist.

What does a killer AF system cost? I don't know. But definitely more than a non-killer AF system. The 7D2 is currently $1700, while the 6D is currently $1400. So that's a $300 difference. And the 6D has a more expensive twice-as-big sensor. So figure the cost of a killer AF system is at least $300. That's $300 too much for all of the 6D buyers who only need the 6D's AF system.

Not every product is going to satisfy every buyer. And even a diverse product line is going to have gaps precisely where someone thinks a product should exist.


----------



## neuroanatomist (May 2, 2015)

zlatko said:


> But is it wrong for Canon to not offer that in the 6D? I don't think so. This is the bargain FF camera in the product line. Something has to make it the bargain, otherwise there's no reason for it to exist.



C'mon, dude...why are you making excuses for Canon. All they have to do is buy FF Exmor sensors from Sony, put them in the 1D X and 5DIII bodies, and sell them for $499 and $299, respectively. Simple!

Then everyone would be happy. At least for the 6 months until Canon shut down their imaging division for catastrophic losses.


----------



## NancyP (May 2, 2015)

Sporgon, my legacy manual focus lenses use "Dandelion"-less adapters (why bother, if I am using at f/8 or focusing via live view?) and the current 14mm Samyang manual focus lens doesn't have a "Dandelion" chip either. The modern manual focus Voigtlander 125 and the Zeiss 21 ZE have standard contacts no different from Canon-brand lens contacts. 

I do use the Eg-S screen, which does well enough for focusing the old-fashioned way and then stopping down a tad.


----------



## K (May 2, 2015)

zlatko said:


> But is it wrong for Canon to not offer that in the 6D? I don't think so. This is the bargain FF camera in the product line. Something has to make it the bargain, otherwise there's no reason for it to exist.
> 
> What does a killer AF system cost? I don't know. But definitely more than a non-killer AF system. The 7D2 is currently $1700, while the 6D is currently $1400. So that's a $300 difference. And the 6D has a more expensive twice-as-big sensor. So figure the cost of a killer AF system is at least $300. That's $300 too much for all of the 6D buyers who only need the 6D's AF system.
> 
> Not every product is going to satisfy every buyer. And even a diverse product line is going to have gaps precisely where someone thinks a product should exist.





All this talk about which features costs what is irrelevant. Maybe it does cost Canon a lot more? That's Canon's problem. Not the consumers. As a consumer, I know that the Nikon D610 has a FF sensor. It also has a much better AF system. It has two slots. It is about same price as 6D.

Canon has no excuse.


----------



## Orangutan (May 2, 2015)

K said:


> All this talk about which features costs what is irrelevant. Maybe it does cost Canon a lot more? That's Canon's problem. Not the consumers. As a consumer, I know that the Nikon D610 has a FF sensor. It also has a much better AF system. It has two slots. It is about same price as 6D.
> 
> Canon has no excuse.



All of this explains why you believe Canon should be able to provide what you want at the price you want. It does not address the (entirely distinct) question of why Canon would choose to do so. If the 6D sells and makes a profit with the current configuration and cost, why would they do anything else?

As many of us have said before, we would like to have the same things you would: lots of features for a low price. We want more DR at all ISOs, we want less noise, we want better, better, better. However, we don't delude ourselves that our interests align with Canon's. Furthermore, your criticism of Canon's value is a still greater criticism of the competition: they ought to be able to use their better value to capture market share. If they haven't then they are deficient as businesses.

Canon, Nikon, Sony, etc. are not in this business for love, but rather for money, just like every other corporation.

It's the most basic of economics: they offer products and set the price, and you decide whether to buy. That's pretty much the whole story. Or, as father Guido Sarducci taught us, it's all supply and demand. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kO8x8eoU3L4


----------



## K (May 2, 2015)

Orangutan said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > All this talk about which features costs what is irrelevant. Maybe it does cost Canon a lot more? That's Canon's problem. Not the consumers. As a consumer, I know that the Nikon D610 has a FF sensor. It also has a much better AF system. It has two slots. It is about same price as 6D.
> ...




The profitability of the 6D is somewhat irrelevant also as to whether or not it offers a good value by Canon.


Because of lenses and lens mount compatibility, there is a high degree of "protectionist" type economics at play here. That is, Canon can get away with lower value products because people are committed to a system. They aren't "forced" to buy anything - but if they want a certain type of camera - their choice is severely limited. They can't just jump ship to the competition so easily. So, in that regard, a LOT of photographers just suck it up and deal with it. Canon loves that. They don't have to be as competitive as they ought to be. The 6D is for people who already own Canon lenses and are in the Canon system. Because those who aren't committed aren't buying the 6D, they are going Nikon.

If Canon and Nikon lenses were completely and totally interchangeable - do you think the 6D would be profitable? I think it would get squashed by the D610 or D750.


However, for those people who do make a leap into FF early on - that is, they haven't invested hardly anything in lenses or camera gear - I see these people going to Nikon in droves. This is precisely because of the features the D610 and D750 offer at the price point they offer them. Nikon has superior value for entry level FF.

But as you all say - Canon makes a boat load of money off the 6D and doesn't care. They ought to, because they could make even more with a better value entry level FF camera. First, by attracting more Canon system owners to buy this body, and by attracting those non-committed who are making the jump to FF early on.


There are two big features that could add HUGE value and bring Canon in line with what the competition is offering at a lower price point -

1. dual card slot
2. slightly better AF


But anyway - this isn't about the 6D now is it?


This is about the 6D Mark II

A camera who is rumored to be released in 2016 that will sell for around $2,100 and have 1 lousy SD card slot. Unacceptable.


I have no doubt in my mind that Canon will not put dual card slots in this camera, even if it aggravates many users. Canon has no fear in limiting and crippling camera features and is completely committed to the idea of trying to up-sell their many loyal users to the 5D line by very strategically limiting a simple, inexpensive feature they need. They did it last time with the AF system, offering a 2004 era AF system in a $2,200 camera in 2013. Only difference? -3EV ...but somehow that saves the day :


----------



## Sporgon (May 2, 2015)

K said:


> There are two big features that could add HUGE value and bring Canon in line with what the competition is offering at a lower price point -
> 
> 1. dual card slot



In what world would adding another card be regarded as adding HUGE value ?


----------



## neuroanatomist (May 2, 2015)

K said:


> Because those who aren't committed aren't buying the 6D, they are going Nikon.



Interesting opinion. Care to back that up with any factual data? Hint: "My two friends bought a D750 instead of a 6D," is an anecdote, not data. 




Sporgon said:


> In what world would adding another card be regarded as adding HUGE value ?



In the world of, "My opinions are representative of the majority." Lots of people seem to live in that exact fantasy world, despite ample evidence to the contrary.


----------



## K (May 2, 2015)

Sporgon said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > There are two big features that could add HUGE value and bring Canon in line with what the competition is offering at a lower price point -
> ...




The real world.


This is now a 16 page thread. Go back and read the posts that clearly prove the advantages and value of a dual card slot.


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## neuroanatomist (May 2, 2015)

We get it, K. You wish Canon would sell the 5DIII/IV for the price of the 6D/II. My old Irish Da would have some advice for you...wish in one hand, sh!t in the other, and see which fills up first. Best of luck to you...


----------



## dcm (May 2, 2015)

K said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > K said:
> ...



I have a pair of 6Ds. Single slot is fine by me. No SD or CF failures in 15 years of digital photography so backup isn't an issue. I get new cards for each body and replace them after 3 years rather than wait for them to fail. Error prevention is sufficient for many of us. Same as replacing/upgrading my hard drives every three years. Don't need the convenience. 32Gb cards are fine for raw+JPG shooting all day, copy / backup at night so I can start with a fresh card next day. I haven't needed to shoot more than a thousand images in one day but I could always get a larger card if needed. Oh wait, I have a pair of 64Gb cards for shooting video. I always have two cards for each body anyway. I imagine Canon knows there are a lot of people like me that are satisfied by the 6D and they have other options for those that aren't. 

If I was shooting professionally I might want the peace of mind and convenience of dual slots. But I would have purchased a 5D or 1D body instead. My plan for next FF body has always been a 1D anyway, but not for dual card slots. Even if I have them I'm not sure I'll use them - more power draw and heat. I wonder how many people that have them actually use them. 

Reminds me of the clamor about how the lack of USB port on the iPad or optical drive on MacAir would doom them. I've had them since day one and never missed these myself. Just because another vendor has it doesn't mean anything. Do people complain about lack of dual slots on the Sony, ... forums?


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## K (May 2, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> We get it, K. You wish Canon would sell the 5DIII/IV for the price of the 6D/II. My old Irish Da would have some advice for you...wish in one hand, sh!t in the other, and see which fills up first. Best of luck to you...




So according to you, the addition of a dual card slot transforms a 6D into a 5D3?


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## neuroanatomist (May 2, 2015)

K said:


> So according to you, the addition of a dual card slot transforms a 6D into a 5D3?



Yes, that's exactly right. In fact, maybe all you need to do is shove two microSD cards into the 6D's lousy single card slot, making it into a double card slot and turning the 6D into a 5DIII. Is your hand full yet?


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## StudentOfLight (May 4, 2015)

For years I've done just fine with one memory card in my 60D and 6D. I just hope the new camera will be fully compatible with SD-U3. The Samsung NX1 seems to do fine with shooting 4K video with these cards so for a 6D with relatively low stills fps the U3 cards should suffice even if there is a decent bump up in resolution.


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## mrzero (May 4, 2015)

I've been following this thread as an amateur 6D owner and, while I might have missed it in all the discussion about whether the 6D line is "pro" or not, and whether you can shoot a wedding with it, there is one major reason that dual slots should be on the 6D line. The built-in GPS makes this a born travel camera. When I am travelling, I don't have the luxury of nightly backups to a laptop or a tablet or whatever. Even if I did, I wouldn't want to spend the time to do it. Consequently, no backups until I get home, and travel photos are almost always once-in-a-lifetime photos. Add a second slot (SD, CF, whatever) and you finally have the option of doing in-camera backups. To me, adding the GPS but leaving off the second card slot is a design flaw. It may have been an intentional crippling of features by Canon, but the 6D Mark II is a chance to correct that flaw. I hope they do so.


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## neuroanatomist (May 4, 2015)

mrzero said:


> ...there is one major reason that dual slots should be on the 6D line. The built-in GPS makes this a born travel camera. When I am travelling, I don't have the luxury of nightly backups to a laptop or a tablet or whatever. Even if I did, I wouldn't want to spend the time to do it. Consequently, no backups until I get home, and travel photos are almost always once-in-a-lifetime photos.



The most likely reason you'd lose your 'once-in-a-lifetime' travel photos is having your camera stolen...having two cards in your camera won't help. Take the time to backup nightly, or risk the consequences.


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## eninja (May 5, 2015)

mrzero said:


> To me, adding the GPS but leaving off the second card slot is a design flaw.



Design flaw??? - sorry I fed.


----------



## K (May 6, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> mrzero said:
> 
> 
> > ...there is one major reason that dual slots should be on the 6D line. The built-in GPS makes this a born travel camera. When I am travelling, I don't have the luxury of nightly backups to a laptop or a tablet or whatever. Even if I did, I wouldn't want to spend the time to do it. Consequently, no backups until I get home, and travel photos are almost always once-in-a-lifetime photos.
> ...




Jeesh!

This person straight up said they don't have the luxury to do backups and if they did, they wouldn't want to spend the time for it on their vacation - yet, they are still told "do a backup at night" all in an effort to hound those people who express the value of dual card slot and who have the audacity to voice it.

Theft can and does happen. This has been used as some kind of bizarre argument against dual slots in that "nothing you do is 100%" ...which is nonsense of course. Having a single card is even more vulnerable IN ALL SCENARIOS. If you can take that single card out of the camera and keep it on your person, then theft is taken care of. But you can do that with a dual card strategy also - except now you not only protect against theft, but you also protect against card failure which isn't common - but it isn't as uncommon as some make it out to be.

In my view, if Canon would just offer this simple feature - they would greatly simplify data protection for so many users out there. 

How much does a back up hard drive cost? Maybe I don't want to lug around a laptop or other computing device that can accept an SD card and store my photos while on vacation? What a terrible thing it is to ask that a camera have the ability to record my images to two cards! People are asking for too much!


I don't believe I'm in some minority of thinkers on this. I don't dismiss the idea that there are people out there who could care less - but I believe a lot more do care than not. Now, the question of whether they care enough to not buy the camera is completely different and that argument was illogically attempted in this thread. Obviously, with the success of the 6D, many users were willing to look past this. But I'd bet that the vast majority would not reject having a dual card slot if it was just offered in the original 6D. If Canon just said "here you go, two SD" would there even be any threads or posts in opposition to it - people lamenting and wishing it wasn't there? I think we know the answer to that. 

Then why do some people just insist on putting up argumentative resistance to the idea that consumers can expect a particular feature on a camera that is offered by others at similar price point? Is it just for the sake of debating on a webforum? Or does it have any sincerity? 

How about the Nikonians? Do they show dissatisfaction about having 2 card slots in everything from the D7100, D610 and up? 


I think anything over $1,200 should have it. Nikon does. 80D should have it if it ever comes out. This has nothing to do with FF for semi-pro this or that. 


Buying a full frame camera for $2,100 without 2 card slots is like buying a BMW without A/C.

Then having some BMW fanatics tell you that you can just roll down the windows on a hot day.


8)


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## neuroanatomist (May 6, 2015)

K said:


> This person straight up said they don't have the luxury to do backups and if they did, they wouldn't want to spend the time for it on their vacation - yet, they are still told "do a backup at night"



If the feature under discussion was an LTE chip for instantaneous cloud backup after each shot, that would mitigate image loss from camera theft. As a justification for a second card slot, it's a weak argument. 

As for 'not having time' or 'not willing to spend the time' while on vacation, that's also a weak argument. If it's important, you make the time. If you don't, you risk the consequences. Bummer that I got malaria when I went to Tanzania, I didn't have time or want to spend time to take my Malarone pills every night. 




K said:


> Buying a full frame camera for $2,100 without 2 card slots is like buying a BMW without A/C.



Except for one very important detail. The only place you can buy a new BMW without A/C is fantasyland. 

By the way, how many card slots does the $2500 full frame Sony a7S have? How many card slots does the $2700 full frame Nikon Df have? How many card slots does the $6400 full frame Leica M have?


----------



## Don Haines (May 6, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > This person straight up said they don't have the luxury to do backups and if they did, they wouldn't want to spend the time for it on their vacation - yet, they are still told "do a backup at night"
> ...


The thing is, ALL storage devices die.
It is not a question of IF, it is a question of WHEN.
That is why, as professionals, we back up our data, and if done properly, in multiple locations.

Two cards in a camera is safer than 1 card. NOBODY is disputing that. There is argument as to how necessary it is, but just because it has never happened to you YET does not mean it never will.

If your camera only has the one slot, yes, you can put a 512GB card into your camera and shoot 20,000 images on your once-in-a-lifetime around the world trip, but that is not smart data management.... that is one-fault-wipes-all data management. A smart photographer would use multiple smaller cards so that a data disaster changes from "I lost all the pictures of my trip" to "I lost my images of Paris". A smart photographer would back up those images and not carry the backup in the camera bag..... "someone stole my camera and the backup that was sitting beside it". Some will backup to the cloud from the hotel room... yes, it is slow, but when you are sleeping, who really cares?

There are lots of strategies to keep your data safe. Relying on the camera to do it for you or ignoring the possibility is just sticking your head into the sand.


----------



## privatebydesign (May 6, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> By the way, how many card slots does the $2500 full frame Sony a7S have? How many card slots does the $2700 full frame Nikon Df have? How many card slots does the $6400 full frame Leica M have?



The $45,000 Hasselblad H5D 200c has a single CF card slot too, that makes that an amateur camera by some peoples reckoning! 

People equating two card slots to anything are sadly deluded, the marketing departments have them sold hook line and sinker.


----------



## neuroanatomist (May 6, 2015)

Don Haines said:


> Two cards in a camera is safer than 1 card. NOBODY is disputing that. There is argument as to how necessary it is, but just because it has never happened to you YET does not mean it never will.
> 
> If your camera only has the one slot, yes, you can put a 512GB card into your camera...



So true. 

Now, if I were K...I'd have made the argument that with a dual slot camera you have the functionality to copy images from one card to the other, so you could in theory keep a 512GB card in the camera and another in the hotel safe and back up to it from your in-camera card nightly using only the camera. One could argue that would save space by not having to bring another device (laptop, standalone photo backup HDD device, etc.) on the trip. Of course, that's going to eat up batteries, so you'll need extras...and when will you charge them, especially if the room power goes off when you take your keycard out of the slot by the door....


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## K (May 6, 2015)

privatebydesign said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > By the way, how many card slots does the $2500 full frame Sony a7S have? How many card slots does the $2700 full frame Nikon Df have? How many card slots does the $6400 full frame Leica M have?
> ...




By Canon's reckoning it would be amateur. It is they who treat it as a pro-only feature. But really, Canon says nothing about pro vs amateur. It is simply their way to push people up to higher end bodies. Canon isn't content bringing that type of satisfaction to people with a less than $3,500 budget (for FF). 


The HD5 is intended to be used tethered to a computer within a studio. CF card is there so that the camera is not useless without a tether. Serious medium format is done on very steady tripods or mounts - tethered. So, bad example on that.


----------



## privatebydesign (May 6, 2015)

K said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



It isn't canon that are saying it, it is internet 'experts' who say it is so. 



K said:


> By omitting the 2nd slot, it is a direct move against anyone with any kind of professional use aspirations for this camera.



See what I mean?

As for this comment.



K said:


> The HD5 is intended to be used tethered to a computer within a studio. CF card is there so that the camera is not useless without a tether. Serious medium format is done on very steady tripods or mounts - tethered. So, bad example on that.



Clearly you are not familiar with Annie Leibovitz, her latest Vanity Fair Star Wars shoot has been all over the photography press for days. Tell her she isn't 'serious', then try and tell me again it is a bad example......

http://www.theverge.com/2015/5/4/8542501/annie-leibovitz-star-wars-portraits-vanity-fair


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## JohanCruyff (May 6, 2015)

Sporgon said:


> JohnBran said:
> 
> 
> > AcutancePhotography said:
> ...


Ok, but why can't Canon engineers put a new yellow button on the 6D2 "stop raining NOW"? Why do they insist crippling the firmware?


----------



## NorbR (May 6, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> Of course, that's going to eat up batteries, so you'll need extras...and when will you charge them, especially if the room power goes off when you take your keycard out of the slot by the door....



Ah, but what if the room has two keycard slots ... ?


----------



## neuroanatomist (May 6, 2015)

NorbR said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Of course, that's going to eat up batteries, so you'll need extras...and when will you charge them, especially if the room power goes off when you take your keycard out of the slot by the door....
> ...



Clearly, it would be a hotel room designed for professionals. ;D


----------



## Don Haines (May 6, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> NorbR said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...


It's true!

I have stayed in rooms that had 2 keycard slots! One on the door for the internal corridor, one on the external door.


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## mrzero (May 6, 2015)

I wish the mods would lock this thread. I'm sorry I even posted in it. I don't even know why I clicked on it again to read.


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## Chris Jankowski (May 6, 2015)

This thread seems to be fixated on dual card slots, better weather sealing and other ways to make 6DII more "professional". I would like to change tack a little bit.

I actually would love the model to go in the opposite direction. No, I do not mean "unprofessional". I mean smaller and lighter to become a brilliant FF travelling DSLR for an amateur or a backup body for a professional.

The rationale is simple. If I have a great lens and a great large sensor I can take great photos. No compromises in the imaging. Other things do help, but are secondary, except for a good pentaprism viewer and perhaps a better AF. The lens creates an image, the sensor captures it and I can compose it through a good viewfinder. 

It would be quite feasible to lighten the body to no more than 500g battery and card included. Electronics is getting denser and uses less power.

So, looking at it differently the camera would be like SL1/D100, but with a FF sensor and would need to have a pentaprism and not a pentamirror. SL1/D100 weighs about 400g. I used to have a film era Minolta SLR that weighed 415g. 500 g should be achievable. I do not want to lug around a 900g body on a week long trek.

This camera would not be a best tool for work in a tropical downpour in a jungle, shooting a soccer match or for a whole day shoot of a wedding. But for travel - perfect.

Perhaps, such camera would need to called 8D and not 6D, but I think that there is a place for it in the Canon FF model lineup. Small and light entry level FF DSLR. 

By the way, from an amateur point of view, it is much better to invest in good lenses instead of investing in high-end bodies. Better use a cheap body and replace it every 3 years or so. DSLR bodies lose value very quickly. On the other hand good lenses keep their value reasonably well.


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## Maximilian (May 6, 2015)

Chris Jankowski said:


> ...
> I actually would love the model to go in the opposite direction. No, I do not mean "unprofessional". I mean smaller and lighter to become a brilliant FF travelling DSLR for an amateur or a backup body for a professional.
> ...
> This camera would not be a best tool for work in a tropical downpour in a jungle, shooting a soccer match or for a whole day shoot of a wedding. But for travel - perfect.
> ...


100% with you. 

Such a body would be tempting for me. Last fall I bought the 100D/SL1 and I like to take something that small - still ergonomic enough - with me. Maybe a little bit too much tempting


----------



## zlatko (May 8, 2015)

K said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



They now sell the 5D3 for $2499 (or as low as $2200), so there's no need to pay $3,500 for FF dual card slots.

Watch video of Annie Leibovitz shooting Hasselblad handheld, untethered:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rb2Z80DXDf0


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## K (May 8, 2015)

zlatko said:


> They now sell the 5D3 for $2499 (or as low as $2200), so there's no need to pay $3,500 for FF dual card slots.




Only for now.

Until they discontinue the 5D3 when the 5D4 comes out. Then it's back to paying $3,500 for dual card slot in FF from Canon.

Now, if Canon keeps production of the 5D3 going and makes it the $1,800 - $2,000 medium range FF option. That would be great. At least buyers will not have to bust out another $1,500 just to secure their photos. Too bad though that to have this feature, one has to settle for a 2012 era sensor when the rest of the market pushes forward.



****************************




With some recent posts in this thread asking the opposite, that the 6D become more enthusiast and less "pro" ...


Ideally, Canon ought to offer another FF camera. A true budget FF around $1,500 that can be completely neutered, stripped down and almost useless except for the sensor to make certain people happy - then a $2,000 - $2,200 prosumer FF that has dual card slots.

Still, I hold to my belief that for the money - the dual slot should be a given. It shouldn't be in play. Even at $1,500. 

However, Canon doesn't seem interested in competing in the mid-range / low end FF market and is instead expanding the lines of high end pro DSLR.

In the other thread I started titled "where is Canon headed" some said that Canon sees DSLR sales strength in the pro range for the future.


I can't help but think that is not the whole story. I don't doubt their pro sales are strong - but I truly believe their pro body sales are only strong because it is Canon's lenses that are driving those sales. Pros willing to spend a lot of money, want to be in the Canon system for the glass. That is why I'm in the Canon system. That and the ergonomics.

It certainly isn't because Canon is generous with basic features or has a cutting edge sensor.

Value in bodies is with Nikon. Which is why I've said a few times before - if Nikon gets their act together and updates some of their key lenses, and better yet - moves forward and innovates some new lenses to compete with Canon, I think there will be a sizable exodus away from Canon. 

On the flipside, Canon can completely seal off any defections and bring more people into their system by offering a little more value in their bodies. Not asking for the world. A dual slot is quite important to many out there. Especially those entering pro-level photography or first time FF buyers getting serious about photography. 

Based on the rumors and some of the actual photos out there, Canon is addressing the lag in sensor technology. Add the dual slot as a standard feature (like seatbelts in a car!) and no one has any reason to leave Canon or consider Nikon.


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## neuroanatomist (May 8, 2015)

K said:


> Ideally, Canon ought to offer another FF camera. A true budget FF around $1,500 that can be completely neutered, stripped down and almost useless except for the sensor to make certain people happy...



The will, the 6DII about 6 months after launch. 




K said:


> A dual slot is quite important to many out there me.



There, I fixed that for you. If it is truly 'quite important' to a majority of entry level FF buyers, we'll see it in the 6DII.


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## exquisitor (May 8, 2015)

K said:


> zlatko said:
> 
> 
> > They now sell the 5D3 for $2499 (or as low as $2200), so there's no need to pay $3,500 for FF dual card slots.
> ...



Hey K! I've followed this thread for quite a while already. Dual card slot is of course a nice feature for the data redundancy. But if you like 6D so much and the only problem is the dual card slot, you could overcome this with Wifi. With the Remote EOS the images from the camera could be mirrored on an other device with Wifi, like a phone, tablet, laptop, whatever. This method would have one big advantage, as the data would be stored at two different places. So even if the camera would be stolen or completely destroyed, you would have all your data recovered. Instead two cards don't have such an option. Especially for the travels I would estimate a likelihood of the theft even higher than the failure of memory card. So going only with dual card slot isn't 100 % safe.
I don't want to advocate for Canon's decision about one card slot in 6D, they could definitely do it for few bucks. I just want to say, if I would have some shortage in the otherwise great camera, I would try to overcome this shortage with all methods I have, especially if the result is even more effective.


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## zlatko (May 8, 2015)

K said:


> zlatko said:
> 
> 
> > They now sell the 5D3 for $2499 (or as low as $2200), so there's no need to pay $3,500 for FF dual card slots.
> ...



With your glass-is-half-empty outlook, you'll never be happy with Canon. They're not "generous" and not "interested in competing in the mid-range/low end FF market" (6D hello?). One has to "settle" for a 2012 era sensor. Sure, the 5D3 is going for as low as $2200 — meeting your dual-card requirements — "for now". And there have even been recent Canon Price Watch emails with the 5D3 at $1,999. But why be happy about that when you can complain that dual cards will be $3,500 in the next model to come out whenever that is? 

Never mind that pros have been using Canon to create wonderful books, ads, portraits, documentaries, wedding photography, etc., for years and years, with sensors that were even older. But you obviously need the latest and you need it at your specific happy price. And Canon just won't deliver. Annie Leibovitz "settled" for one card slot in her Hasselblad. Sebastiao Salgado settled for a less than cutting edge sensor in his Canon (and managed to produce Genesis). Perhaps their work is not "pro-level photography"?


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## neuroanatomist (May 8, 2015)

zlatko said:


> Perhaps their work is not "pro-level photography"?



Obviously. If those wannabes want to be real pros, they need two card slots in their cameras. Where have you been, we clearly established that fact by about the 5th page in this thread. :


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## zlatko (May 8, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> zlatko said:
> 
> 
> > Perhaps their work is not "pro-level photography"?
> ...



Maybe they're wannabe photographers who don't know what they need. Or maybe they just can't afford a pro camera and have to settle for whatever they can get.


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## Sporgon (May 8, 2015)

Don't forget hotels with two card slots for mirrorless owners


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## neuroanatomist (May 8, 2015)

Crosswind said:


> I guess everything with two slots is desired ;D (edit; well,... I actually prefer 3)



Trying very hard – and apparently failing – to not comment on the small size of CF cards and the even smaller size of SD cards...


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## PhotographyFirst (May 8, 2015)

Maximilian said:


> Chris Jankowski said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



The 6D really needs to either be a compact higher end camera or a true full frame Rebel. I would love to have the smallest and lightest full frame camera Canon could possibly produce, much like the old days when full frame film cameras were very compact.


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## lilmsmaggie (May 8, 2015)

If this thread continues any longer, we'll need popcorn and maybe pizza and beer


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## neuroanatomist (May 8, 2015)

lilmsmaggie said:


> If this thread continues any longer, we'll need popcorn and maybe pizza and beer


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## Eldar (May 8, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> lilmsmaggie said:
> 
> 
> > If this thread continues any longer, we'll need popcorn and maybe pizza and beer


I run out of beer, so I am well into my single malts. If this continues, I won´t get up tomorrow ... Heck I´m off to Dubai tomorrow ... ... ... Ok, just one more ...


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## Matthew Saville (May 8, 2015)

Maximilian said:


> Chris Jankowski said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Considering that Nikon has split the D610 and D750 line, I can totally see this happening, and would be 100% in favor of it. Too bad there are no more numbers between 7D and 5D. Maybe this is an 8D we're brainstorming here?

6D mk2: dual SD card slots, decent weather sealing and AF, basically a 5D mk3 with ~$1K knocked off the price with as few compromises as they need to make in order to justify the difference.

8D: smaller, lighter, more affordable 6D. Heck, put a next gen 1DX sensor in it with clean ISO bazillion, do 4K video, and attack the Sony A7S market!

I dunno. It should happen, it could happen, but it probably will not, at least not this generation.

Sorry for beating the dead horse, but I thought this was a turn for the positive for this thread...
=Matt=


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## neuroanatomist (May 8, 2015)

Eldar said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > lilmsmaggie said:
> ...



;D ;D

Safe travels...


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## expatinasia (May 8, 2015)

Eldar said:


> I run out of beer, so I am well into my single malts. If this continues, I won´t get up tomorrow ... Heck I´m off to Dubai tomorrow ... ... ... Ok, just one more ...



Eldar, if you like your single malts then may I humbly suggest the 16-year old Bushmills. I think it is good enough to rival the Lagavulin Distillers Edition. Sante!


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## NancyP (May 9, 2015)

Even the 6D looks huge next to my beloved Mamiya-Sekor DTL 1000 circa 1969 (135 film SLR). I have to say that I like the grip on the 6D, it fits my hand better than the M-S, and I wear a size 6 glove. Dinky doesn't do it for me, though I love light weight.


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## neuroanatomist (May 9, 2015)

NancyP said:


> Even the 6D looks huge next to my beloved Mamiya-Sekor DTL 1000 circa 1969 (135 film SLR). I have to say that I like the grip on the 6D, it fits my hand better than the M-S, and I wear a size 6 glove. Dinky doesn't do it for me, though I love light weight.



Nonsense. Don't you know the smaller size of mirrorless is why they spell doom for the dinoSauLR?


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## super_newbie_pro (May 11, 2015)

Matthew Saville said:


> 8D: smaller, lighter, more affordable 6D. Heck, put a next gen 1DX sensor in it with clean ISO bazillion, do 4K video, and attack the Sony A7S market!


 8D ?? 

If one Canon FF could be at 1000-1400$ max at the release date, thats could be a great news for customers  ... but a 8D is not a rumors, just a dream for now


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## IntriguePhotography (Aug 4, 2015)

Bernard said:


> K, why is "single slot" such a big issue? As far as I'm concerned, dual card slots are a throwback to the days of unreliable, low capacity memory cards. Some professionals might want dual slots when covering "no reshoot" events, but I'm OK with skipping that feature on Canon's low-cost full frame camera.



The Nikon entry level full frame, the D610 has them. Their crop camera comparable to the 70D, the D7200 has them. For the price they're likely to ask, the 6D II should have them as well. 

Why not add a level of convenience to an item that is sure to be used by enthusiasts and pros alike?


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## TheJock (Aug 4, 2015)

Eldar said:


> I run out of beer, so I am well into my single malts. If this continues, I won´t get up tomorrow ... Heck I´m off to Dubai tomorrow ... ... ... Ok, just one more ...


Where are you staying? it's bloody roasting just now, 49 degrees yesterday at 4pm ???


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## K (Aug 5, 2015)

> K, why is "single slot" such a big issue? As far as I'm concerned, dual card slots are a throwback to the days of unreliable, low capacity memory cards. Some professionals might want dual slots when covering "no reshoot" events, but I'm OK with skipping that feature on Canon's low-cost full frame camera.



The cost and size associated with adding a 2nd SD slot seems to come up quite often. The best I can say is that Nikon offers this at a very low price point and in small body cameras. D7200 is a good example. On FF, the D610 and D750. Both of which are less expensive than the 5D3 is now, even at the blow-out gray market pricing of the 5D3. And the Nikons are sold by authorized retailers too. But the 5D3 isn't going to be around forever. Once the replacement is announced, production will cease and quantities will shrink. Then it will be back to $3,000 or more on the Canon system to get a few specific features that Nikon offers for $1,500 on FF.





> The Nikon entry level full frame, the D610 has them. Their crop camera comparable to the 70D, the D7200 has them. For the price they're likely to ask, the 6D II should have them as well.
> 
> Why not add a level of convenience to an item that is sure to be used by enthusiasts and pros alike?




100% Agreed. 


People in this forum act like we're asking to borrow Canon's sister when we ask for a 2nd SD slot on the 6D2.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 5, 2015)

K said:


> People in this forum act like we're asking to borrow Canon's sister when we ask for a 2nd SD slot on the 6D2.



Ask all you want. A 6DII with dual slots, a 6DII with the 5DIII's AF and the 1D X's metering, a 6DII priced at $800, whatever...just don't be surprised if the answer is No.


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## K (Aug 5, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > People in this forum act like we're asking to borrow Canon's sister when we ask for a 2nd SD slot on the 6D2.
> ...




Correction, instead of "asking" should be "expecting" ...I don't ask anything of Canon.

But I'm still not sure why you think this is some costly or unreasonable expectation? No one expects Canon to package a flagship camera for an entry level price. Your argument is unreasonable. You suggest that is what I expect. Maybe delusional people expect that, but they can go on living in their fantasy world. In my world, the real world, I look at what competitors are doing and I see Canon's biggest competitor offering it up no problem.

So the question then becomes, based on the angle you've taken - what IS and ISN'T a high end feature? Apparently, dual card slots by your implied reasoning is. According to Canon's practices, it seems so.

Nikon does it easily for under $2K, and they are also providing better metering and AF system too! Precisely what you mock. But forget the better AF that ALL Nikons have over the 6D. Stick to the card slots.

It is silly Canon treats this as a high end feature and users cite costs. But we all know that isn't the truth. Has nothing to do with price, and has everything to do with functionality and selectively crippling camera to provide negative incentive to Canon system owners potentially thinking of doing anything commercial for the up-sell to the 5D line. All for a feature that is cheap and easy to implement (see Nikon).

I'll repeat it a million times. *Canon is rumored to release a $2,200+ MSRP FF camera in 2016, with one lousy SD slot.* How is this not perceived as being petty on Canon's part? Let the bold line sink in for a minute. FF in 2016 at over $2,000 dollars and a stinking 2nd card slot is viewed as an upscale feature. wowzers.

Perhaps we'll use an automotive analogy to help people understand. Things like standard features. Then there are upgrades or premium/luxury features. Goes by price. Don't expect leather seating and premium audio and navigation in an econobox. That's reasonable. Nor a high performance V-8 engine in a budget car. However, cars of certain prices all have competitive features as a standard for their CLASS. It would be like driving a new Lexus off the lot with a missing radio/CD player to save a few dollars.

The 6D and rumored 6D2 might not be a flagship or high end model, but it's a higher class of camera in the spectrum of DSLR and at its price point, the dual slot ought to be a 'standard feature' ....

Who can honestly argue with a straight face that Canon is doing everyone a big favor by saving us, the consumers, a few dollars by omitting it on a $2,200+ camera. OH GEE THANKS CANON for looking out for our wallets.... :

Even on the price savings argument, even if that could be taken seriously - that is yet another negative for Canon. Those citing cost to implement aren't saying anything good about Canon. Because, if Canon has to further increase the price of an already $2,000+ camera for an extra SD card slot - what does this say about Canon? That is awful if you really think about it.

What is next? No strap will come with it, or battery sold separately to keep MSRP down?

The hard core Canon apologists in here would gain a little bit of credibility if they would or could show an occasional balanced perspective by offering up or recognizing legitimate criticisms of Canon. Nope, not here. It is nothing but non-stop total defense and apologist tactics for Canon. This is fanaticism.


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## Sporgon (Aug 5, 2015)

K said:


> I'll repeat it a million times. *Canon is rumored to release a $2,200+ MSRP FF camera in 2016, with one lousy SD slot.* How is this not perceived as being petty on Canon's part? Let the bold line sink in for a minute. FF in 2016 at over $2,000 dollars and a stinking 2nd card slot is viewed as an upscale feature. wowzers.



You could say the same thing about pop up flash. Canon don't think you need that either. Personally I agree. 

I don't see the big deal; if Nikon provide precisely what someone wants above all others, why not purchase Nikon ? It's never been easier to change systems as it is now. Canon gear still realises top dollar on e bay, as does Nikon. Just sell up. If I wasn't happy that's what I would do - and have in fact - when I wasn't happy with Nikon not providing (and officially stating that they would never provide) a FF camera.


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## drmikeinpdx (Aug 5, 2015)

NancyP said:


> Even the 6D looks huge next to my beloved Mamiya-Sekor DTL 1000 circa 1969 (135 film SLR).



Hey, that was my first SLR! (Almost wrote DSLR)
Brings back old memories... a pentax screw mount if I recall correctly.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 5, 2015)

K said:


> Correction, instead of "asking" should be "expecting" ...I don't ask anything of Canon.



Ask, expect, potayto, potaahto. No still means no. 




K said:


> I'll repeat it a million times. *Canon is rumored to release a $2,200+ MSRP FF camera in 2016, with one lousy SD slot.* How is this not perceived as being petty on Canon's part? Let the bold line sink in for a minute. FF in 2016 at over $2,000 dollars and a stinking 2nd card slot is viewed as an upscale feature. wowzers.



You can repeat it a gazillions times, it's still the same old saw. I don't see you decrying Sony for providing one lousy stinking card slot on the $3200 MSRP FF a7RII. Wowzers. :




K said:


> Who can honestly argue with a straight face that Canon is doing everyone a big favor by saving us, the consumers, a few dollars by omitting it on a $2,200+ camera. OH GEE THANKS CANON for looking out for our wallets.... :



No one is. 




Sporgon said:


> I don't see the big deal; if Nikon provide precisely what someone wants above all others, why not purchase Nikon ?



+1


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## dak723 (Aug 5, 2015)

Just curious. Question to K - and actually to all the others who continually hammer Canon on specific wants. (Not to say the wants aren't legitimate. Logically 2 card slots are a safer alternative than 1). 

How many times have you emailed, called, or written Canon and expressed your opinions? Or do you just complain on the forum(s)? 

Just wondering.


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## K (Aug 5, 2015)

Sporgon said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > I'll repeat it a million times. *Canon is rumored to release a $2,200+ MSRP FF camera in 2016, with one lousy SD slot.* How is this not perceived as being petty on Canon's part? Let the bold line sink in for a minute. FF in 2016 at over $2,000 dollars and a stinking 2nd card slot is viewed as an upscale feature. wowzers.
> ...




I very much prefer the Canon system overall. And this isn't about "if you don't like it, leave" ...this is about Canon offering an important and reasonable feature in a $2,000+ camera.

But to your point, if I could only have one FF DSLR and $2,000 or less to spend. It certainly would not be any single-slot 6D or 6D2. I'd move to Nikon. But I run a 5D3 for all the important stuff and it isn't an issue to me personally or directly. I'm not made of money, but I was able to get these bodies. Most of the folks I know, work with, associate with or talk to at times cannot afford a 5D3. Most, not all. Yet they all would definitely like and value a 2nd slot to protect their data. 

The 7D2 is a really good option for that. It is priced very well too. In the other thread comparing the 6D to 7D2 - I made a very good case for the 7D2. It is a better overall camera for pro use. But....it is crop. Apples to Oranges. Recommending that would be changing the subject. Again, at $2,000 or more, it is a little shameful Canon would omit a 2nd slot.


Just because I personally aren't effected by it, doesn't mean I don't see the value in it for others. Canon really should open up the possibility that a cheaper FF body could be used for commercial use, and not fear that it will somehow kill the sales of their precious 5D line. 

Canon will NOT lose 5D sales to a 2-slot equipped 6D2 because those people were NOT going to buy the 5D anyway because it is too much money for them. An extra $1,000+ premium is a lot. At ;east keep them in the Canon system.


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## Sabaki (Aug 5, 2015)

I agree with k

There's features becoming norms with other manufacturers that should just become norms with DSLRs. 

5 years back, video wasn't a norm, was it?


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## K (Aug 5, 2015)

> You can repeat it a gazillions times, it's still the same old saw. I don't see you decrying Sony for providing one lousy stinking card slot on the $3200 MSRP FF a7RII. Wowzers. :



Interesting you bring that up. I have no reason to bring Sony into the discussion or even my line of thinking as they are not a serious camera system. Sony is outrageously overpriced amateur toys.

Simply put, Sony builds sensors then thinks about the camera to put around it. Canon builds cameras, and works on developing sensors as a part of creating the camera. Perspective, but it does matter.

Sony cameras are showcases for a sensor. Nikon uses Sony sensors in a real camera system and the results are impressive. Canon is technically lagging on some aspects of sensor design, but the total package makes for a superior system than the combo of Nikon who knows how to build cameras, and Sony who has fancy sensors. That says a lot for Canon.

This statement is my opinion, and it will probably anger a lot of people. 


But all that doesn't change that Canon is rumored to put out a FF camera in 2016 with a single SD slot for over $2,000. There may be bigger ripoffs out there (Sony), but that doesn't excuse Canon on this.


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## Ozarker (Aug 6, 2015)

K said:


> > You can repeat it a gazillions times, it's still the same old saw. I don't see you decrying Sony for providing one lousy stinking card slot on the $3200 MSRP FF a7RII. Wowzers. :
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Seems you are having trouble letting things go, like you hang on a little too hard. This ought to help loosen your grip a little. Then you'll have somewhere to put that extra card you are worried about. Especially since you have absolutely no idea what that second card slot would cost Canon (or the rest of us). Or whether or not it will even fit in light of the fact that the 6D has wifi and GPS... features the Professional Model 1Dx you say they are trying to upsell does not have. Is the 1Dx "crippled" too?



K said:


> If you are a paid event photographer, I would go for the 7D2 for the following reasons -
> 
> 1. Dual card slot data integrity. It isn't a matter of IF, but a matter of WHEN a card will fail. You can't reshoot an event. Many data recoveries succeed, but NOT ALL. Of those that succeed, rarely are 100% of the photos recovered. After all, the whole reason a failure took place is because data on the card became corrupted. In this day and age of social networking - reputations can be ruined quickly and hard earned referrals lost. Ignore all the morons who will say this isn't that important. If that was true, the 5D and 1D series would have one slot, but they don't. You owe it to yourself, your business and the customer to protect the images. The 7D2 does that at a very reasonable price point. It is almost unethical not to.


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## StudentOfLight (Aug 6, 2015)

CanonFanBoy said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > > You can repeat it a gazillions times, it's still the same old saw. I don't see you decrying Sony for providing one lousy stinking card slot on the $3200 MSRP FF a7RII. Wowzers. :
> ...


The 1D-X is crippled. It doesn't have a headphone jack. It also lacks a silent shutter mode, which would be useful for wildlife and event shooting. So as a general purpose camera, the current 1D-X is not the body for me.


----------



## Ozarker (Aug 6, 2015)

StudentOfLight said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > K said:
> ...



It is not "crippled". Just does not have those features. Evil Canon is trying to upsell you to...??? Wait, there is no upsell. Thanks for helping with the point. ;D Hmmm... maybe the "downsell" is the game. ;D But, but, but...Is the 1Dx a general purpose camera? I've never thought of it as being so. I've never seen it touted by Canon as being "general purpose" either. Of course, without a headphone jack or silent shutter, how could the 1Dx possibly be considered a "professional" camera? (sarcasm)


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## StudentOfLight (Aug 7, 2015)

CanonFanBoy said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > CanonFanBoy said:
> ...


The upsell from a 1D-X is the 1D-C. (Which includes the headphone jack and 4K)


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## Ozarker (Aug 7, 2015)

StudentOfLight said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > StudentOfLight said:
> ...



You are right, I'd forgotten that 4k was available on DSLRs in April 2012 when the 1Dx was released.  That is certainly what photo journalists and sports shooters were looking for when they bought their "crippled" general purpose 1Dx cameras. Then again, the 1Dc isn't a "general purpose" camera either, is it? No.


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## StudentOfLight (Aug 8, 2015)

CanonFanBoy said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > CanonFanBoy said:
> ...


As a freelancer I want general purpose cameras, and good crossover between body functions and capabilities is essential for me. Since I need the aforementioned, the 1D-X is not a camera for me.


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## jeffa4444 (Aug 8, 2015)

As someone who uses his 6D almost daily their is very little I would change. The current 20.2MP sensor exhibits banding in certain lighting situations like very grey skies or fog, a sensor without banding is No. 1 on my list. 
I don't need removable focusing screens so would prefer fixed system less dust issues then. 
The annoying feature on the 6D is forgetting to turn-off GPS after use and with the cameras powered down the GPS still sucks juice from the battery a fix for this would be welcome. 
Finally more cross type AF points please one in the centre doesn't cut it.


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## Ozarker (Aug 9, 2015)

StudentOfLight said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > StudentOfLight said:
> ...



Of course it isn't the camera *you want or need*. You said that, but it isn't "*crippled *" either. There certainly isn't some conspiracy by Canon to purposefully leave out a feature so that they can *upsell* you for the purpose of *ripping you off*. BUT even if Canon does leave features off of one camera and include such features on another... so what. Sometimes tech actually trickles up. Take, for instance, the 70D's dual pixel AF. The 1Dx doesn't have that either. It can't mount an EFS STM lens either (available first in EFS not EF). Is the 70D "crippled" because it does not shoot at 12 fps? I think not. Is the 1Dx crippled because it does not have dual pixel AF? Nope. Two different camera models with two very different purposes and two different markets. Neither is "crippled".
Do videographers want to use auto focus on EF lenses AND record onboard so that they can get all that AF noise from the lens in their recording? I don't think so. Doesn't a hot shoe mounted tascam for lapel mics or other device offer the headphone jack? Yup.

I understand wanting every feature in every camera at the price one wants because, "I want it! I want it! I want it!" and "They should do it because I want it!". The fact is, it will never happen. There will always be equipment releases made just months before some new tech is perfected for market. Some around here claim it is a vast conspiracy. Others know it is just the nature of ever expanding technology and R&D.

The 1Dx isn't for you? I don't care. The fact remains, it is not "crippled".


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## theunreal (Aug 10, 2015)

Nice to hear. I hope they will keep this camera reputation as an affordable good camera for low light. I was sure they are going to improve the AF system but as I saw many complaints for more sd card slots, I thought they will add another one.


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## Sporgon (Aug 10, 2015)

theunreal said:


> Nice to hear. I hope they will keep this camera reputation as an affordable good camera for low light. I was sure they are going to improve the AF system but as I saw many complaints for more sd card slots, I thought they will add another one.



If the Dual Card brigade moaning on CR do in fact represent the majority, and Canon MR is in tune, then you can guarantee they will fit it with two card slots because everyone who already has a 6D will upgrade to the new one, and all those people who haven't yet bought the 6D because of it's crippling single card will buy the mark II. So Canon will sell them like hot cakes.

On the other hand it just could be possible that the Dual Card brigade here on CR do not, in fact, represent what most people want.............


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## jeffa4444 (Aug 11, 2015)

Personally never worried about the single SD card slot. Ive been fortunate and never had an SD card failure on a Canon (I have had it happen on an Olympus Pen equally single slot) and always carry extra cards. 

Like stated elsewhere film cameras never had back-up rolls yet we managed then and with largest capacity up to 512GB on a Sandisk card were not likely to need to take cards in and out of the camera often.


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## Zv (Aug 11, 2015)

jeffa4444 said:


> Personally never worried about the single SD card slot. Ive been fortunate and never had an SD card failure on a Canon (I have had it happen on an Olympus Pen equally single slot) and always carry extra cards.
> 
> Like stated elsewhere film cameras never had back-up rolls yet we managed then and with largest capacity up to 512GB on a Sandisk card were not likely to need to take cards in and out of the camera often.



We also managed just fine "back in the day" with the 5D Mark II and 7D which were both high end pro use camera bodies. 

But still we are not satisfied until we get our dual slots in every single camera!! Even the M! Heck why not the Powershot too! 

In fact two is so amateur! It's all about the three nowadays!


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## Sabaki (Aug 11, 2015)

Each day that passes, I'm settling on getting a 6Dii

I want it to be my landscape, lowlight and events camera. 

I understand the AF system won't be the latest and greatest but I'd like it to be competent enough to shoot stage shows with some dancing. 

A feature I'd love to be included, is a hypofocal length indicator. It'd be cool for landscapes


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## NancyP (Aug 11, 2015)

Current 6D is good. I use manual focus lenses on it, and I have replaced the stock screen with the Eg-S superfine screen, makes things so much nicer. I would be disappointed if they made everyone use the stock screen. I don't care about dual slots, I don't shoot events for pay. I haven't had a card fail, but then again, I bought a few decent brand cards from reputable brick-and-mortar retailers like B and H or the local store (not Chinese Internet sellers, possibly intentionally or unintentionally fraudulent), maybe I have 4 16 G for the SLRs and another 4 4 G for the compacts over the years - not a robust sample number. I don't see myself getting the 6D2 unless there is a major sensor change.


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## StudentOfLight (Aug 11, 2015)

CanonFanBoy said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > CanonFanBoy said:
> ...


Since you don't believe that a camera can be "crippled" obviously your logical conclusion is that your favourite camera is not crippled.

IMHO a "crippling" is not only for up-selling but also to force cross-selling. Take the TC80-N3 for example. For years that has been sold separately when Nikon bodies have timer control functions programmed into the camera. The magic lantern guys also implemented it in various non-1D bodies, so a timer control via software is obviously possible on the Canon system. Built-in TC is only now being sold in the 7D-II and 5Ds cameras but omitting that function in the 1D-X was intended to force a cross-sell of a mostly unnecessary accessory (Crippling for cross-sell not upsell to a more expensive body). 

Say for example you are doing a 3x camera timelapse project. With the Canon system you would need to fork out extra to buy three timer controls whereas with Nikon you could just shoot with your three cameras.


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## StudentOfLight (Aug 11, 2015)

NancyP said:


> Current 6D is good. I use manual focus lenses on it, and I have replaced the stock screen with the Eg-S superfine screen, makes things so much nicer. I would be disappointed if they made everyone use the stock screen. I don't care about dual slots, I don't shoot events for pay. I haven't had a card fail, but then again, I bought a few decent brand cards from reputable brick-and-mortar retailers like B and H or the local store (not Chinese Internet sellers, possibly intentionally or unintentionally fraudulent), maybe I have 4 16 G for the SLRs and another 4 4 G for the compacts over the years - not a robust sample number. I don't see myself getting the 6D2 unless there is a major sensor change.


I was a bit disappointed that Canon didn't already implement on-sensor ADC technology in the 5Ds (~R) sensor, if the 6D-II doesn't offer the benefits of that technology then I'm in the same boat as many others who will persist with what we have or perhaps dabble with the ever-improving mirrorless options out there.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 11, 2015)

StudentOfLight said:


> IMHO a "crippling" is not only for up-selling but also to force cross-selling. Take the TC80-N3 for example. For years that has been sold separately when Nikon bodies have timer control functions programmed into the camera. The magic lantern guys also implemented it in various non-1D bodies, so a timer control via software is obviously possible on the Canon system. Built-in TC is only now being sold in the 7D-II and 5Ds cameras but omitting that function in the 1D-X was intended to force a cross-sell of a mostly unnecessary accessory (Crippling for cross-sell not upsell to a more expensive body).



Unlikely. The 7DII/5Ds are three years newer. Historically, once Canon incorporates a feature like this it will be offered in all 'similar' future bodies (i.e. all xD cameras in this case).


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## Ozarker (Aug 11, 2015)

StudentOfLight said:


> Say for example you are doing a 3x camera timelapse project. With the Canon system you would need to fork out extra to buy three timer controls whereas with Nikon you could just shoot with your three cameras.



Nothing you say means that the camera is "crippled" You KNOW what the features are before you buy the camera. The features you need are not available on one model or brand? Then go to another model or brand. 

It makes no difference what the people at Magic Lantern do when hacking cameras. So what? Canon decided it made sense to sell the feature in the form of hardware rather than software. You seem to think this is underhanded or dishonest. It isn't. 

If a photographer is contracted to do a 3 camera time lapse project and is stupid enough to not figure into the bid the extra equipment he may have to get to do the job, then he deserves the lumps he gets. Nobody forces a person to take the upsell, downsell, or cross sell. Nobody. If a person does not like the choices then he should not make them.

Frankly, all this sounds like armchair quarterbacking. "Canon sucks." "Canon makes crippled cameras." Blah, blah, blah. "If only they would do this or that." "The other company does it and it pisses me off that Canon doesn't."

The fact is that Canon makes very good products and so does the competition. No company is going to please everybody.

However, there is a real solution to the problem: Take your brain and design and build the perfect camera for the masses at the price they all want to get it for. Design just one model that does what everyone wants it to do in every conceivable situation and every possible job. You could call it "Super Cam!"

The fact is you wont because you don't have the mental ability to do it. I don't either. But it doesn't take much mental prowess to armchair quarterback the decisions made by those who do have the ability and must also turn a profit while doing it.

The only thing that causes a product to be "crippled" is the person who drops it and causes it to break and not function as designed or advertised. I've a sneaking suspicion there are people on the Nikon, Sony, Fuji, etc. forums that complain all the time about the brands they chose to buy into also.

Sometimes it seems this forum is just for crying and moaning and complaining. All the chronic complainers ought to thank their lucky stars that there are people of ability out there designing and producing the technological marvels we use each day and take for granted. Why? Because they will never produce anything themselves. They cannot. Their field of expertise won't permit it. Professional complainers can only produce, well, complaints. And that is a miserable way to live life. It can, in fact, be quite crippling.


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## StudentOfLight (Aug 12, 2015)

CanonFanBoy said:


> The fact is you wont because you don't have the mental ability to do it.


I assume you and I both live in the free world so you are entitled to your opinions just as I am to mine, however the above is an insult directed at me.

Designing, manufacturing, marketing and sales is not a purely mental process. It takes financial and human resources as well. If I had unlimited resources I would design and manufacture and market "the perfect camera" as I see fit. However, I (like most other people) live in a world with limited time and resources and so have to rely on service providers and manufacturers to provide the items I want and/or need.

I'm not a Sony or Nikon user. I have been a Canon user for a number of years now with range of bodies and lenses. I love the ergonomics but feel that there are some areas of the body designs and features that need attention. Is this not a fair assessment of the situation? 

Whether you label that as
a) "Crippled" or 
b) "Must try harder next time" or
c) "Perfectly good for my personal needs" or
d) "Annoyingly is missing X thing that would make my life easier" or
e) Other 

is really up to the individual. 

There is no need to insult people just admit that you have a difference of opinion.


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## Zv (Aug 13, 2015)

The term "crippled" is relative. It implies a disadvantage or inability to function normally in a natural environment. 

For example - I can't swim, luckily I don't live in the sea, but does that mean I'm crippled in some way since I lack that ability? 

Same thing for a camera - It doesn't have X feature but still has the ability to carry out it's primary function in it's designated environment. Does my 6D work under water? Nope. Is it crippled? No. The fact that it only has one card slot does not cripple the camera relative to what it is designed to do - take pictures. Now, if it came with half a sensor then you could say it was crippled.


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## StudentOfLight (Aug 13, 2015)

Zv said:


> The term "crippled" is relative. It implies a disadvantage or inability to *function normally* in a natural environment.
> 
> For example - I can't swim, luckily I don't live in the sea, but does that mean I'm crippled in some way since I lack that ability?
> 
> Same thing for a camera - It doesn't have X feature but still has the ability to carry out it's primary function in it's designated environment. Does my 6D work under water? Nope. Is it crippled? No. The fact that it only has one card slot does not cripple the camera relative to what it is designed to do - take pictures. Now, if it came with half a sensor then you could say it was crippled.


Normal is a comparative, based on what is common among others. 

How you define primary function is another matter as well. I would argue that no one buys a DSLR for it's primary function. Your mobile phone can perform the primary function of recording an image. You buy a DSLR for secondary and tertiary functions and features, in order to reliably increase your chances of successfully capturing a desired moment and with increased quality. You don't buy it for the primary function.


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## ksgal (Aug 13, 2015)

StudentOfLight said:


> How you define primary function is another matter as well. I would argue that no one buys a DSLR for it's primary function. Your mobile phone can perform the primary function of recording an image. You buy a DSLR for secondary and tertiary functions and features, in order to reliably increase your chances of successfully capturing a desired moment and with increased quality. You don't buy it for the primary function.



I'm looking at the above and wishing I could hold my hand down here. 

No, I bought my PHONE to be a bleeping PHONE - not to do its secondary crappola function of being a camera. If I could have a better phone at the loss of the camera I'd do that in a heartbeat. 

I bought my CAMERA to be a CAMERA - not because it could be a phone, or a TV or anything else. 

As much as I spend on dslr gear, I sure to Heck hope that I bought it for it's primary function. 

And I apologies for arguing over splitting hairs, and please proceed with the noodle beating!


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## StudentOfLight (Aug 13, 2015)

ksgal said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > How you define primary function is another matter as well. I would argue that no one buys a DSLR for it's primary function. Your mobile phone can perform the primary function of recording an image. You buy a DSLR for secondary and tertiary functions and features, in order to reliably increase your chances of successfully capturing a desired moment and with increased quality. You don't buy it for the primary function.
> ...


To glue hairs back together again... 

I didn't say that a mobile phone's primary function is taking pictures. I said that they too can perform a camera's primary function, which is to capture an image. Taking pictures could be a secondary or tertiary etc... function of a mobile phone, but the fact remains that smart phones can perform that function regardless of level of quality they are able achieve.


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## Zv (Aug 13, 2015)

StudentOfLight said:


> Zv said:
> 
> 
> > The term "crippled" is relative. It implies a disadvantage or inability to *function normally* in a natural environment.
> ...



What? 

Then what do we buy them for? To use as office paperweights?


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## fragilesi (Aug 13, 2015)

The term "crippled" is plainly wrong. It's become widely used but looking at it objectively it doesn't fit and it's unnecessarily emotive. 

I am sure there are occasions when all of the manufacturers take marketing decisions to leave features and functions out but at least as often as not it's going to be something more than that and the reasons are manifold. 

Features will also get left out because timescales didn't allow them to be included. Sad but often true. Even if a feature works in one camera it might not be as easy or even possible to implement in even a slightly different one. 

The point that gets levelled at Canon most is Magic Lantern. The underlying premise is that software is free even if it does take the ML guys months to get it done. But then ML aren't doing the same thing as Canon are having to do, they are designing without warranty, they won't have to replace units or accept returns when things don't work, they have a userbase of hundreds, maybe thousands but not millions per camera. These are VERY different propositions for software design and require approaches that differ so intensely in terms of QC that the costs are incredibly diverse in time, resources and of course money. In this age of people expecting things for free we forget that quality is is anything but free. It has cost in just the same way as it has value. We also forget that future-proofing architectures has ongoing cost associated with it on top of the significant development time.

In how many other areas of technology does a component designed as long ago as something like the 135L F2 work seamlessly with the very latest models? (Without some clumsy adaption being required) There will be some but not many. All of these things cost and to many are extremely valuable.

Talk of products being deliberately "crippled" is all too often over-assumed and over-dramatised.


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## unfocused (Aug 13, 2015)

I'm one of those who finds the term "crippled" ridiculous (not to mention more than a little politically incorrect).

I suppose if a manufacturer deliberately disabled a feature that was built into a product, one might be able to legitimately argue the product has been "crippled." For example, if a camera had two card slots built into it, but one of those slots was filled with a dummy card that had been superglued in place, that might constitute "crippling." 

Or, if a lens came with a maximum aperture of f2.8, but when mounted on certain cameras, it would only open to f5.6, that might be "crippling."

But, that's not what we are talking about is it? No. People use the phrase to malign any camera that does not have any particular feature that the person wants it to have. Without regard to either the cost or practicality of including that feature in the camera. 

Therefore, when the 6D has an autofocus system that is not as sophisticated as the autofocus system of the 1D, it is "crippled" in their minds. Or if a particular model does not have a headphone jack, it is "crippled."

This kind of thinking reveals an attitude that manufacturers have unlimited resources and the cost of producing a product should have no relationship to the cost the consumer pays for the product.

Of course, when you buy a 1Dx you are getting more features than a T3i. That's called product differentiation. Nothing evil or conspiratorial about it. You pay more. You get more. 

I strive to provide the highest level of service I can to all my clients. But trust me, a client who pays more is going to get more. I'm not "crippling" my services to other clients, I'm just adjusting the level of service to meet the price paid.


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## Chuck Alaimo (Aug 13, 2015)

StudentOfLight said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > StudentOfLight said:
> ...



I gotta side with all the others here wondering just how it's crippled. It lacks features, it has limitations but crippled? I guess if the grass is always greener and you need to spin it a certain way, then yeah, use all the inappropriate terms you want but ---it's not crippled by any means. Lets be real here - does my house have central air, no, must be crippled. Most standard cars only have front wheel drive, that lack of AWD or 4wd must make those cars crippled. My car doesn't have bluetooth, crippled?


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## mdmphoto (Aug 14, 2015)

I'll be happy if the 6D II has more af points, covering a larger section of the viewfinder, cross-type. Better ISO, DR would also be nice, but the fact is, the 6D already handles noise way better than any of the crop bodies I've ever used, (XTi, 40D, 50D, 7D), and, while it'll never take sequential action shots (say, a basketball slam dunk from the top of the key, and the like), it is as capable as its operator of getting isolated action shots (the push-off, a bit of the dribble, the slam...) or BiF shots and so on. I still use my 7D for birds and wildlife, surf shots, and so on even as I lust for a 7D II, but the fact is if I'm only carrying one body, it's the 6D, and I've probably put off the 7D II so often because I'm waiting for the 6D II's hopefully better af and whatever comes with it -- also, the 7D II's price goes down over time, like all models. I paid brand-new prices for my 50- and 7D bodies, only to watch those prices creep down fairly quickly over the following months.
The point for me is simple: if the camera body I'm researched is faithful to its specs, then any limitations are more due to me, than it....


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## jeffa4444 (Aug 14, 2015)

mdmphoto said:


> I'll be happy if the 6D II has more af points, covering a larger section of the viewfinder, cross-type. Better ISO, DR would also be nice, but the fact is, the 6D already handles noise way better than any of the crop bodies I've ever used, (XTi, 40D, 50D, 7D), and, while it'll never take sequential action shots (say, a basketball slam dunk from the top of the key, and the like), it is as capable as its operator of getting isolated action shots (the push-off, a bit of the dribble, the slam...) or BiF shots and so on. I still use my 7D for birds and wildlife, surf shots, and so on even as I lust for a 7D II, but the fact is if I'm only carrying one body, it's the 6D, and I've probably put off the 7D II so often because I'm waiting for the 6D II's hopefully better af and whatever comes with it -- also, the 7D II's price goes down over time, like all models. I paid brand-new prices for my 50- and 7D bodies, only to watch those prices creep down fairly quickly over the following months.
> The point for me is simple: if the camera body I'm researched is faithful to its specs, then any limitations are more due to me, than it....


You could have written this for me. Like you I have the 7D and the 6D, Ive been tempted to buy the 7D MKII given I have three EF-S lenses including the very good 15-85mm but I think Im going to wait and see IF a 6D MKII shows up and what it will be like, until then I cannot say Im unhappy generally with the 6D its a great landscape camera.


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## jeffa4444 (Aug 14, 2015)

mdmphoto
Forgot to say I like the shot (it does have some sensor dirt spots easily removed in Lightroom).


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## mdmphoto (Aug 16, 2015)

jeffa4444 said:


> mdmphoto
> Forgot to say I like the shot (it does have some sensor dirt spots easily removed in Lightroom).



...Thanks for your comment and critique-- I simply overlooked the spots. I was so thrilled with the results of an otherwise-unadorned LR CC HDR processing- including dehazing, and de-ghosting filters, that I lost my mind in euphoric amazement, and just forgot to pay any attention to the spots. I fixed and re-posted the shot. (yes, at long last, I've bitten the photo CC bullet, and yeah, I'm actually impressed and at peace with it...)


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## jeffa4444 (Aug 17, 2015)

Like you I bit the bullet and moved over to Lightroom & Photoshop CC on the montly plan now Ive got used to the basic functions used the most although still trying to understand the tools in Photoshop which are NOT easy to understand (Lightroom is where I do most of my adjustments). Apple let Photographers down big-time with Photos which in my mind is rubbish but I guess they long ago decided what they wanted to do not what the customer may want that comes from an accountant running them. 

22 pages of posts, I hope someone at Canon is looking. The Canon 6D MKII is now overdue.


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## mdmphoto (Aug 17, 2015)

jeffa4444 said:


> Like you I bit the bullet and moved over to Lightroom & Photoshop CC on the montly plan now Ive got used to the basic functions used the most although still trying to understand the tools in Photoshop which are NOT easy to understand (Lightroom is where I do most of my adjustments).
> 22 pages of posts, I hope someone at Canon is looking. The Canon 6D MKII is now overdue.



I also do most of my editing in LR- the school at which I taught photo-editing switched from ps4 to LR1, so I've had and used every iteration since, moving ever further from any shred of comfort wtih ps, which I'd never used for anything except photos- all its other capabilities simply mystified me, and, occasionally, tricked me into ruining otherwise decent (I thought) photos. I did miss layers and blending modes, though, so I started using Perfect Photo Suite beginning with v. 5, and have become more comfortable using it than ps for editing beyond LR; especially since they added layers a couple of versions ago.
I also hope Canon is rushing the 6D II to the market also, as long as they keep all the current features while adding more sophisticated AF...


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## super_newbie_pro (Aug 27, 2015)

for someone who has no optical FF , nikon or canon choice is not a problem . The selection is more easier. This 6D II will arrive with a price more high than the Nikon D750 . For me it will be in direct competition not with the D610 but the D750 . Outside , when I see all the benefits of D750 , rotating screen , dual slot SD, Quick AF , housing structure and seals body , EV 14,5, canon will struggle to impose its new device ... The D750 is now at € 1,900 / $ 1500 or 1500€/1300$ on grey market.


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## entoman (Aug 27, 2015)

Yes, that is going to be the biggest problem for Canon - setting a price that undercuts the D750, which in terms of specification beats anything that Canon is likely to provide in the 6DMkii. However, the original 6D was more expensive than the far better specified D610, yet the 6D, I believe, is a bigger seller than the D610.

One thing is for sure, Canon have very loyal (but deeply frustrated) customers, and we have a habit of grabbing every upgrade that they bring out, in preference to switching to Nikon.

It's not just about being "stuck" with Canon due to having a collection of existing lenses either - if I had all my Canon gear stolen (5DMKiii, 7DMkii, 270EXii, 17-40L, 100mm L IS macro, 180mm L macro, 70-300L) I'm pretty sure I'd use the insurance money to buy a replacement Canon system, rather than use the opportunity to switch to the better specifications and better value of Nikons.

Why? There is something special about Canons, beyond their specification. They are beautifully designed, with fantastic ergonomics, and a real pleasure to use. As a pro I have access to a wide range of gear, so I also used a Nikon D610 based system in parallel for several weeks. In my opinion, in terms of design and ergonomics and user-friendliness, Canons blows Nikons completely out of the water.


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## jeffa4444 (Aug 28, 2015)

In the Amazon rankings the 6D lies ahead of the D610 (the D750 is ahead of it) but neither of them is particularly high. On the Canon side the 5DMKIII, 7DMKII, 70D all rank far higher as do some of the Rebel cameras. 

The 6D by the Amazon measure is due updating.


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## Sporgon (Aug 28, 2015)

jeffa4444 said:


> In the Amazon rankings the 6D lies ahead of the D610 (the D750 is ahead of it) but neither of them is particularly high. On the Canon side the 5DMKIII, 7DMKII, 70D all rank far higher as do some of the Rebel cameras.
> 
> The 6D by the Amazon measure is due updating.



Are you sure these Amazon rankings don't work on overall value rather than overall units ? It staggers me how high up the ranking a very expensive camera like the 5DIII is.


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## piotrekhc (Aug 29, 2015)

Any rumors about pricing ?


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## Jack Douglas (Sep 8, 2015)

Today Canon eStore Canada has the 6D at $1600 CAD, which is roughly $1216 USD.

Jack


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## babarasghar (Nov 16, 2015)

so no more updates on this ???
plz tell me we r getting better sensor this time canon or else I'm jumping to Nikon


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## wsmith96 (Nov 23, 2015)

I know this isn't 6DII related, but I just picked up a refurb 6D to replace my 5D for over the weekend for $999. I saw today that Canon dropped the price and they were nice enough to refund $100 to match today's price of $899. Looking forward to the technology/feature jump. Any one looking for a 5D "classic", pm me as I'm selling...


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## the.unkle.george (Nov 23, 2015)

$899 Sold out already. I was past the 14 day limit. -nojoy :'(
Poor people on Craigslist trying to sell them for $1200

Love my 6d.


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