# Canon Speedlite 90EX (EOS-M) - master capable on all EOS bodies?



## AvTvM (Nov 10, 2012)

just found this post on German foto community http://www.fotocommunity.de/forum/d-slr-fortgeschritten/drahtloses-blitzen-mit-speedlite-fuer-alle-eos-359176 which claims the small external Canon speedlite 90EX which was released alongside the EOS-M seems to work as a wireless master flash [line of sight, optical] on all Canon EOS DSLRs. Mastering capabilities almost equal to the 580EX. 
3 groups and best of all HSS mastering on top.

I cannot verify, sicne this speedlite is not available yet were I live and furthermore I have a 7D with pop-up master flash built in. Although that one will NOT do HSS mastering. 

If confirmed, this would be a really interesting and cheap option for owners of EOS bodies without pop-up flash, namely 5D/2/3 and 1D/s/X. 

http://www.amazon.com/Canon-6825B002-Speedlite-90EX-Flash/dp/B008NF8998/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1352565396&sr=8-1&keywords=canon+90ex


----------



## AvTvM (Nov 10, 2012)

just checked the Canon website and it confirms the 90EX works as master-flash.

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/speedlite_flash_lineup/speedlite_90ex#Features
_For a number of advanced lighting setups, the Speedlite 90EX can be used as a master transmitter to control multiple flash units - wirelessly! Through 4 channel optical light pulse transmission, the Speedlite 90EX can control up to three groups of slave-enabled flashes, controlling power from 8:1 to 1:8 in 1/2 stop increments. It can transmit up to approximately 16.4 ft. indoors, up to 23 ft. outdoors. _


----------



## wickidwombat (Nov 11, 2012)

i just tested in on a 5Dmk2 for you with 580ex2 as a slave and it works just have to do all the flash control from the in camera menus, 
Not as good as the odins but it does work


----------



## AvTvM (Nov 11, 2012)

@wickidwombat: thanks. 

So aside from ST-E3 and 600EX-RT (with radio and line-of sight wireless) there are now 3 options for light-pulse line-of-sight wireless mastering available from Canon. Each with it's own set of advantages and disadvantages:

* master-capable flash, eg. 580EX/II
functionality: master triggering, 4 channels, 3 groups (A,B,C), 1. curtain and HSS; AF-assist (both IR and flash) 
Upside: powerful fully featured flash functionality; downside: bulk/weight, cost 

* ST-E2 - same capabilities as 580EX/II, AF-assist (IR); 
Upside: small&light, "cheap"; downside: no flash functionality on its own

* Speedlite 90EX
same as 580EX and ST-E2, but no AF-assist; basic, weak (fill) flash capability 
Upside: small& light, cheap; Downside: no AF assist functionality 

Plus another option available on newer EOS bodies with master-capable pop-up flash:
* 7D (3 groups of slaves), 650D (2 groups), 60D, 600D (1 group)
functionality similar to 90EX, minus HSS master capability, but plus AF-assist (flash only) 
Advantage: built-in, no extra item, no extra cost; Downside: available only on newer APS-C bodies; no HSS in wireless mode 

Unfortunately neither one of the "small, light & cheap" options has all desired functionality. 

And regrettably none of Canon's wireless mastering options offers 2nd curtain sync whereas all of Nikons's wireless CLS options do provide 1st, 2nd curtain and HSS in wireless mode - but they got no radio wireless as of yet. ;-)


----------



## Marsu42 (Nov 11, 2012)

AvTvM said:


> And regrettably none of Canon's wireless mastering options offers 2nd curtain sync whereas all of Nikons's wireless CLS options do provide 1st, 2nd curtain and HSS in wireless mode - but they got no radio wireless as of yet. ;-)



I'm still amazed why Canon didn't add 2nd curtain wireless at least to the new 600rt protocol - since rt is not backward compatible anyway, it would have been easy to add this feature as ettl-iii. But maybe it'll be on the 660rt  ?


----------



## wickidwombat (Nov 11, 2012)

AvTvM said:


> And regrettably none of Canon's wireless mastering options offers 2nd curtain sync whereas all of Nikons's wireless CLS options do provide 1st, 2nd curtain and HSS in wireless mode - but they got no radio wireless as of yet. ;-)



I'll have to check again but I was fairly sure second curtain sync was able to be enabled in the camera menu when i had the 90 ex on it, the tiny size and weight are definately a good plus for this little guy


----------



## AvTvM (Nov 12, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> I'll have to check again but I was fairly sure second curtain sync was able to be enabled in the camera menu when i had the 90 ex on it, the tiny size and weight are definately a good plus for this little guy



@wickidwombat: could you please take a look into this feature, once your time allows? I am fairly certain 2nd curtain Sync will not be available in wireless mode. However, I would be more than happy if I were proven wrong on this one and would immediately order a 90EX.  
Thanks!


----------



## DanielG. (Nov 13, 2012)

AvTvM said:


> I am fairly certain 2nd curtain Sync will not be available in wireless mode.



In wireless mode the menu option for 2nd curtain sync changes to high speed sync.


----------



## bycostello (Nov 14, 2012)

DanielG. said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > I am fairly certain 2nd curtain Sync will not be available in wireless mode.
> ...



big gripe with canon and not allowing 2nd curtain on off camera flash


----------



## unfocused (Nov 14, 2012)

A couple of observations from using the 7D. The on-camera flash must fire for the trigger to work. (The flash has no effect on the exposure as it is synced to fire before the shutter opens, but it must fire.) This has a tendency to overheat the flash very quickly. Once it overheats, it shuts down until it cools off. The net result is that you are out of business until it cools down. Embarrassing and frustrating if you are in the middle of shooting a portrait.

I don't know if the small 90EX fires when you use it to trigger a slave or if it is subject to the same overheating, but I wouldn't be surprised if it does overheat quickly, given its small size. Just something to be cautious about.

After several embarrassing and frustrating incidents, where the flash quit triggering my 580 II's, I decided to go for the Yongnuo knockoff of the ST-E2. I'm not a professional, so I could not justify the cost of pocket wizards. The Yongnuo is less than half the price of the ST-E2, has worked very well and even rotates in the hotshoe so it can be aimed better at the strobes (something the RT-E2 doesn't do). If it dies on me, I can always use the 7D's on-camera trigger, but this way I have a backup. Just something to factor in.


----------



## Trovador (Dec 19, 2012)

I was also thinking about the Yongnuo st-e2, but I'm not sure if it's compatible with the 6D.


----------



## Quasimodo (Dec 19, 2012)

DB said:


> The effective range (about 5 meters) is very limited, plus it states that AF assist beam does not fire in wireless mode



Just out of curiosity... I am away on holidays and don't have the manuals lying around. How many meters does the ST-E2 cover, as well as the 580 EX II and 600 EX RT that I have too? I have only used the ST - E2 to control my three flashes in a studio, so I have not been concerned about the meters yet, but it is interesting.

G.


----------



## scyrene (Jan 4, 2014)

This is so awesome. I got the 90EX bundled with the EOS M (and it wasn't advertised as such, so a true bonus), and now I can use the 600EX-RT truly off camera at last! What an awesome function to add to such a tiny flash unit.


----------



## Jim Saunders (Jan 4, 2014)

Trovador said:


> I was also thinking about the Yongnuo st-e2, but I'm not sure if it's compatible with the 6D.



I was going to suggest this and their lights rather than screwing around with optical triggering. There is another thread here somewhere (here) discussing what it can do. The idea of firing Canon-type wireless lights with a different-brand body is intriguing.

Jim


----------



## jdramirez (Mar 11, 2014)

Here's a quick question....

Can you use the flash to trigger two off camera groups (yes), while at the same time using it to provide fill flash?

If it works like the 60d's built in flash the answer has to be yes.... but I'm not sure.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Mar 11, 2014)

jdramirez said:


> Here's a quick question....
> 
> Can you use the flash to trigger two off camera groups (yes), while at the same time using it to provide fill flash?
> 
> If it works like the 60d's built in flash the answer has to be yes.... but I'm not sure.



AFAIK, the 90EX is flash *OR* optical master, and cannot be flash AND optical master.


----------



## mrzero (Mar 11, 2014)

jdramirez said:


> Here's a quick question....
> 
> Can you use the flash to trigger two off camera groups (yes), while at the same time using it to provide fill flash?
> 
> If it works like the 60d's built in flash the answer has to be yes.... but I'm not sure.



No, it does not fire its own flash when used as a master.


----------



## jdramirez (Mar 11, 2014)

mrzero said:


> jdramirez said:
> 
> 
> > Here's a quick question....
> ...



I guess it gets tired and needs a rest.


----------



## mrzero (Mar 11, 2014)

jdramirez said:


> I guess it gets tired and needs a rest.



I don't think that is too far off. I think it has something to do with the AAAs not putting out enough juice to recycle fast enough. It really is just a replacement for a pop-up flash master on the 5d, 6d, and pre-7D/60D crop cameras.


----------



## tolusina (Mar 11, 2014)

Thanks for this thread, just ordered one from B&H, white box, possibly a take off from an M kit.
Guy on the phone mumbled something about discontinued, I didn't get whether the M or the 90EX was discontinued, maybe both?
Also, B&H website only lists the 90EX as white box, make of that what you will.


----------



## wickidwombat (Mar 12, 2014)

Jim Saunders said:


> Trovador said:
> 
> 
> > I was also thinking about the Yongnuo st-e2, but I'm not sure if it's compatible with the 6D.
> ...



i have the yongnuo st-e2 it does not work with the 5Dmk3 not sure why itsw fine for the other cameras but i've never used it since getting the phottix odins i should probably give it to someone who needs it more and might actually use it


----------



## brad-man (Mar 12, 2014)

wickidwombat said:


> Jim Saunders said:
> 
> 
> > Trovador said:
> ...



It should. Do you have the latest firmware (v1.08) installed? The EX90 is going for $50 at 6th Ave via ebay, if anyone is interested.


----------



## jdramirez (Mar 12, 2014)

brad-man said:


> wickidwombat said:
> 
> 
> > Jim Saunders said:
> ...



I picked one up at $50 from 6th ave... but I'm regretting the purchase... I did want something that would act as fill flash... 

I have 2 yongnuo 622's... so I guess I could buy another... 1 on each of my two 580 exii's... and then one on my 5d mkiii body... with the 90ex as a flash and not as a master... but not it just seems freaking convoluted... 

I'm annoyed with myself. I'll maybe just sell it for $50 and be done with it. No harm... no foul... no loss.


----------



## wickidwombat (Mar 12, 2014)

brad-man said:


> wickidwombat said:
> 
> 
> > Jim Saunders said:
> ...



yeah got the latest firmware but like i said the ST-E2 copy is so superceded now its in a pelican case somewhere in a different country to me so i can check, right now all i use are an odin controller and mitros + flashes with built in RT
love it


----------



## privatebydesign (Mar 12, 2014)

wickidwombat said:


> brad-man said:
> 
> 
> > wickidwombat said:
> ...



You guys are talking at cross purposes. 

The Yongnuo ST-E2 does not work with the latest cameras and never will, it does not have a USB port and is not firmware upgradeable. 

Jim's link is for the Yongnuo YN-E3-RT, that is the radio based triggering system and it only works with the 600-EX-RT, no other flashes. It does have a USB port and is on Firmware 1.08 but is not relevant to this thread.

The 90EX is a POS, it does act as a trigger, but only if you have a camera with the flash settings in the menu, and it has so little power it can't act as fill even when not doing triggering duties, seriously, it is so underpowered it barely registers. I got one for free in an M kit, I thought B&H had made a mistake so asked them if I should send it back, they said no, neither B&H nor I attach any value to the 90EX whatsoever, it is practically useless.


----------

