# technique for hand held larger lens



## TeT (Apr 16, 2014)

Using my 300 4 L IS with either a crop body or 6d I get blur. I correct this by leaning my left shoulder against something. Do not have same issue with the 70 200 L. I do not want to always use a monopod as it is often getting in the way.

Its not a strength thing, my height & wingspan (I'm 6'7') might play into it some...

Looking for some proper hand placement or body alignment tips from anyone who has had this issue.

Thanks,
John


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## Don Haines (Apr 16, 2014)

TeT said:


> Using my 300 4 L IS with either a crop body or 6d I get blur. I correct this by leaning my left shoulder against something. Do not have same issue with the 70 200 L. I do not want to always use a monopod as it is often getting in the way.
> 
> Its not a strength thing, my height & wingspan (I'm 6'7') might play into it some...
> 
> ...



I would have said that the correct technique is to lean against something or rest the lens on something... or use a tripod or monopod.......


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## AcutancePhotography (Apr 16, 2014)

Read some articles about shooting a rifle accurately. The same techniques apply to our type of shooting.


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## Eldar (Apr 16, 2014)

AcutancePhotography said:


> Read some articles about shooting a rifle accurately. The same techniques apply to our type of shooting.


+1
Left foot forward, a shoulder width between your legs. rest your left elbow against your body and empty your lungs slowly as you prepare for the shot.


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## TeT (Apr 16, 2014)

AcutancePhotography said:


> Read some articles about shooting a rifle accurately. The same techniques apply to our type of shooting.



Thanks, makes sense... hand held rifle with no external support can be tough. Requires certain stance posture and arm positions etc..

Will apply same techniques and see where it goes...

John


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## mackguyver (Apr 16, 2014)

Check out the third photo on this page (of Arthur Morris) - that's how I hold my lenses, if they have feet. I move my hand up to the lens body otherwise. The key is to tuck both elbows into the body and relax. Try to shoot between breaths (hold your breath after your exhale). With practice, you'll be able to shoot at or just below 1/focal length on lenses without IS, and up to the full amount of IS compensation (around 1/100s for the 300 f/4).

+1 on the foot position tips (look up "Weaver stance") and I've read about former snipers who shoot between heartbeats...

The key is practice.

And remembering to make sure IS is turned on if your lens has it


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 16, 2014)

mackguyver said:


> Check out the third photo on this page (of Arthur Morris) - that's how I hold my lenses, if they have feet.



Me, too, except I try not to stick my tongue out like that.


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## mackguyver (Apr 16, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> mackguyver said:
> 
> 
> > Check out the third photo on this page (of Arthur Morris) - that's how I hold my lenses, if they have feet.
> ...


The best have always stuck their tongues out - I guess he's the Micheal Jordan of the photo world


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## JPAZ (Apr 16, 2014)

Nah. He's using his tongue to hold the lens, as well! : 

Funny thing, but fooling around with the 300 f/2.8 + TC2xiii, I get worse results with the monopod on than with hand holding. I think it has to do with where I hold (elbows tucked, left hand under lens, etc) with the added effect of the monopod creating and additional rotation point for the lens. I think I need to spend some quality time practicing with the monopod to get that right.


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## surapon (Apr 16, 2014)

TeT said:


> Using my 300 4 L IS with either a crop body or 6d I get blur. I correct this by leaning my left shoulder against something. Do not have same issue with the 70 200 L. I do not want to always use a monopod as it is often getting in the way.
> 
> Its not a strength thing, my height & wingspan (I'm 6'7') might play into it some...
> 
> ...



Dear TeT.
Here are my method to support / Carry my big GUNs, Use my monopods with Ball Head, and Small Compacted Camera Bag , with Heavy duty Neck Belt.,
Sorry, I do not have some one to shoot me ( my photo ) with full load equipment on my monopod and support by my strong neck.
Enjoy.
Surapon.


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## surapon (Apr 16, 2014)

Another ways to support the big GUN with out use monopod.
Enjoy
Surapon


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## mackguyver (Apr 16, 2014)

JPAZ said:


> Nah. He's using his tongue to hold the lens, as well! :
> 
> Funny thing, but fooling around with the 300 f/2.8 + TC2xiii, I get worse results with the monopod on than with hand holding. I think it has to do with where I hold (elbows tucked, left hand under lens, etc) with the added effect of the monopod creating and additional rotation point for the lens. I think I need to spend some quality time practicing with the monopod to get that right.


Since getting the 300 last fall, I've hand held 90% of the time. A tripod and monopod get in the way for me most of the time. The exception was when I covered a sports event and the monopod was really nice to have while I waited for the competitors (2-5 minutes between them) and shot for 8 hours with just a break or two for a few days in a row. There it really helped with the weight and to keep my lens ready while I waited. I usually had about 2-3 seconds warning on their approach so I really needed to have the lens lined up and ready.


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## surapon (Apr 16, 2014)

Dear Friends.
Sorry, I do not have 300 mm. yet, But for my dear 600mm. + 2X, I must use Monopod and Elastic Rops to tie the monopods to the Metal Hand rails for shoot the Baseball at the Baseball stadium, half miles away( ?) from the Homebase. Yes, I have no choice, if I do not use the heavy weight Tripods.
Enjoy.
Surapon


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## surapon (Apr 16, 2014)

But for my dear 600mm. + 2X, I must use Monopod and Elastic Rops to tie the monopods to the Metal Hand rails for shoot the Baseball at the Baseball stadium, 
THANKS.
SURAPON


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## TeT (Apr 17, 2014)

@ Surapon.

You are a trip, that said I enjoy every one of your posts and replies....


..onward
I gave a shooting (gun) stance a shot and it worked. All about the technique...

Thanks for all of the input...

Guess I could also get a better gimble for the pod...


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## sagittariansrock (Apr 17, 2014)

surapon said:


> Dear Friends.
> Sorry, I do not have 300 mm. yet, But for my dear 600mm. + 2X, I must use Monopod and Elastic Rops to tie the monopods to the Metal Hand rails for shoot the Baseball at the Baseball stadium, half miles away( ?) from the Homebase. Yes, I have no choice, if I do not use the heavy weight Tripods.
> Enjoy.
> Surapon



Nice!


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## mackguyver (Apr 17, 2014)

Surapon, you truly are a great problem solver and I would never have guessed that you could get shots like that from a spot like that in the stadium. Great shots and great way to use the railing and bungee cords!


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## jhpeterson (Apr 17, 2014)

I'll second all comments that say getting sharp hand-held shots with larger lenses is almost entirely a matter of technique.
I've photographed from boats on a regular basis for more than thirty years. One of the first things I learned was a tripod or even a monopod was useless. All they do is pick up and magnify vibrations, so what you have is worse than had it been hand-held.
Two tips I've found most useful that apply anywhere are pressing your elbows into your sides and holding as far out on the lens as you can. With longer lenses, it's usually a compromise to do both at the same time. So, if I have to give a little on one, it usually would be on holding the lens out, as tucking the elbows in seems to be the most important tool for stability.
One support I have used with success is an Ergo-Rest. I clamp this onto the lens and, holding onto the lens out as far as can I manage, push the double-legged platform into my chest.
It's helpful, too, if you can build up your strength, so holding whatever equipment you use for reasonable times isn't an unbearable strain. Whenever I find that my gear has suddenly gotten heavy, it's almost always because I haven't been working out enough.


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## neuroanatomist (Apr 17, 2014)

mackguyver said:


> Surapon, you truly are a great problem solver and I would never have guessed that you could get shots like that from a spot like that in the stadium. Great shots and great way to use the railing and bungee cords!



Indeed! Surapon puts the "DO" in DIY!

For those of us who are less DIY inclined, Really Right Stuff has a setup for securely attaching a monopod to a railing, as part of their Safari collection. Needless to say, it costs more than bungee cords.


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## yorgasor (Apr 17, 2014)

For shots where timing isn't critical, I've also found it helpful to put my camera on the 2 second timer and hit the button just as I'm finishing my exhale. I picked up an old Nikon 300mm 2.8 AIS that I've been experimenting with and the technique does get difficult. It also gets heavy after a while, so I know have some 15lb and 25lb pound curling weights I keep at the foot of my desk for regular use. I've found my stamina improving. It's really hard to hold the lens still when your arms are tired.


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## surapon (Apr 17, 2014)

TeT said:


> @ Surapon.
> 
> You are a trip, that said I enjoy every one of your posts and replies....
> 
> ...




Dear friend TeT.
Yes, Gimbal by Wimberley are the Best of the best, BUT Super high cost too( Winberley WH-200 = $ 595 US Dollars at Adeorama)---Like Benz cars---Yes, Many model of Lexas / Toyota are better quality, But Cheaper.
Here are my Add - on DIY of Wimberley Gimbal head, for my birds shooting ( a years ago== Sorry, I am not Bird lover)---Yes, I love to shoot the beautiful Girls on the Beach---Ha, Ha, Ha, Not Seagulls.
Enjoy.
Surapon


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## surapon (Apr 17, 2014)

Here are my Add - on DIY of Wimberley Gimbal head, for my birds shooting ( a years ago== Sorry, I am not Bird lover)---Yes, I love to shoot the beautiful Girls on the Beach---Ha, Ha, Ha, Not Seagulls.
Enjoy.
Surapon
Yes, Canon EOS-M with 600 mm + 2 X


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## surapon (Apr 17, 2014)

Jackson_Bill said:


> surapon said:
> 
> 
> > Dear Friends.
> ...



Thank you, Dir, Dear Jackson_Bill .
That was my first real sport shooting in my life, and I never shot Sports again , that 2 years ago----Sorry, I am not sports photographer or Birds Photographer---BUT, For Beautiful Girls = Free of Charge----Ha, Ha, Ha.
Have a good week end, Sir.
Surapon


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## surapon (Apr 17, 2014)

sagittariansrock said:


> surapon said:
> 
> 
> > Dear Friends.
> ...




Thank you, Sir, Dear Mr. sagittariansrock.
You make my day.
Surapon


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## kirispupis (Apr 17, 2014)

I commonly hand hold my 200-400/1.4x - which is considerably heavier than the 300/4 (which I have owned in the past). I use the following for help

- Attach neck straps to both the camera + lens
- Control my breathing when using low shutter speeds (similar to macro)
- Hold the camera by the lens and stiffen my arm when shooting
- Stick to higher shutter speeds (which are necessary since most of my targets are moving anyways)

Most of my non-Disney photos in this stream were taken with it - https://www.flickr.com/photos/calevphoto


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## surapon (Apr 17, 2014)

mackguyver said:


> Surapon, you truly are a great problem solver and I would never have guessed that you could get shots like that from a spot like that in the stadium. Great shots and great way to use the railing and bungee cords!




Thank you, Sir dear friend Mr. mackguyver.
Yes, Bungee cords, Swiss army knife and Big strong duct tape with me all of my trip------I have learn from you in the TV. show, Mr. Macgyver in 1985 to 1992 on ABC. and I never miss the shows.
Yes, Sir, I have Canon 1.4X II and Canon 2X II with me on that trip.
Have a great Weekend, Sir.
Surapon


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## surapon (Apr 17, 2014)

jhpeterson said:


> I'll second all comments that say getting sharp hand-held shots with larger lenses is almost entirely a matter of technique.
> I've photographed from boats on a regular basis for more than thirty years. One of the first things I learned was a tripod or even a monopod was useless. All they do is pick up and magnify vibrations, so what you have is worse than had it been hand-held.
> Two tips I've found most useful that apply anywhere are pressing your elbows into your sides and holding as far out on the lens as you can. With longer lenses, it's usually a compromise to do both at the same time. So, if I have to give a little on one, it usually would be on holding the lens out, as tucking the elbows in seems to be the most important tool for stability.
> One support I have used with success is an Ergo-Rest. I clamp this onto the lens and, holding onto the lens out as far as can I manage, push the double-legged platform into my chest.
> It's helpful, too, if you can build up your strength, so holding whatever equipment you use for reasonable times isn't an unbearable strain. Whenever I find that my gear has suddenly gotten heavy, it's almost always because I haven't been working out enough.



Thank you, Sir. Mr. jhpeterson.
Great Idea/ Great Comments/ Suggestions that all of us can learn from your technique.
Have a great day, Sir.
Surapon


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## mackguyver (Apr 17, 2014)

surapon said:


> mackguyver said:
> 
> 
> > Surapon, you truly are a great problem solver and I would never have guessed that you could get shots like that from a spot like that in the stadium. Great shots and great way to use the railing and bungee cords!
> ...


That is where my nickname/username comes from and I used to love the show as well. I'm still creative in like the character in many areas of my life, but sadly photography gear is not one of them. I couldn't come close to keeping up with you, anyways  Have a great weekend as well!


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## surapon (Apr 17, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> mackguyver said:
> 
> 
> > Surapon, you truly are a great problem solver and I would never have guessed that you could get shots like that from a spot like that in the stadium. Great shots and great way to use the railing and bungee cords!
> ...




Thanks you, Sir, Dear my Master/ Teacher Mr. neuroanatomist.
I never miss your answer all the posts, Not only that we are learning the new Ideas, New Technology from your answers, But Also your Answers create the Most interest Answers from all members of the Posts too---That let us think -Think and think + absorb in our brains.
Have a great Weekend, Sir.
Surapon.


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## surapon (Apr 17, 2014)

yorgasor said:


> For shots where timing isn't critical, I've also found it helpful to put my camera on the 2 second timer and hit the button just as I'm finishing my exhale. I picked up an old Nikon 300mm 2.8 AIS that I've been experimenting with and the technique does get difficult. It also gets heavy after a while, so I know have some 15lb and 25lb pound curling weights I keep at the foot of my desk for regular use. I've found my stamina improving. It's really hard to hold the lens still when your arms are tired.



Yes, Sir, Dear Friend, Mr. yorgasor.
This Weekend, I will try your Technique , use 2 Sec. timer, and hitthe shutter after finish my exhale----Great Idea for minimize the finger's vibration.
Yes, Sir, you are right, 15, 25 Pounds Curling weight are great for my both arms, That I exercise nin every evening past 35 years
Have a great weekend, Sir.
Surapon


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## yorgasor (Apr 18, 2014)

I'll use the 2 second delay timer at night as well, when I don't have my shutter release cable on me. This is especially important when you've got a long lens on your camera, as a little button press does make the assembly on the tripod wobble slightly. I used it last night when I went outside in my yard to get a few night shots of things. Many scenes look way more interesting at night with a long exposure than during the day:



Basket by yorgasor, on Flickr



Birdhouse by yorgasor, on Flickr



Bird Feeder by yorgasor, on Flickr


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## surapon (Apr 18, 2014)

Ye, Thank you, Sir , dear friend yorgasor,
Wow, Beautiful sharp/ Great Warm Color in the Night time with your trick for hand held shooting. Yes, Sir ,m I will try to night too , By use 2 sec. time delay/ Timer.
Thousand thanks for new / Great Trick.
Surapon.


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## yorgasor (Apr 18, 2014)

I had a hard time framing the bird feeder. It was so dark, I could barely find it in my viewfinder, let alone make a good composition of it. I think if I didn't have live view to help with focusing, I wouldn't have been able to get most of these shots to look right.

They were all shot with my Nikon 300mm f/2.8 AIS lens. I think it's my new favorite night lens


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## mackguyver (Apr 18, 2014)

yorgasor said:


> I had a hard time framing the bird feeder. It was so dark, I could barely find it in my viewfinder, let alone make a good composition of it. I think if I didn't have live view to help with focusing, I wouldn't have been able to get most of these shots to look right.
> 
> They were all shot with my Nikon 300mm f/2.8 AIS lens. I think it's my new favorite night lens


Did someone say Nikon  Just kidding, and I really like the shots as well.


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## yorgasor (Apr 18, 2014)

mackguyver said:


> yorgasor said:
> 
> 
> > I had a hard time framing the bird feeder. It was so dark, I could barely find it in my viewfinder, let alone make a good composition of it. I think if I didn't have live view to help with focusing, I wouldn't have been able to get most of these shots to look right.
> ...



Heh, well, I would've loved to get the Canon 300mm f/2.8 IS II lens. Maybe when my photography side business takes off I'll score one. In the meantime, I saved $5k by picking this 30 yr old lens instead.


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## surapon (Apr 19, 2014)

surapon said:


> Ye, Thank you, Sir , dear friend yorgasor,
> Wow, Beautiful sharp/ Great Warm Color in the Night time with your trick for hand held shooting. Yes, Sir ,m I will try to night too , By use 2 sec. time delay/ Timer.
> Thousand thanks for new / Great Trick.
> Surapon.




Yes, Thank you, Sir , dear friend yorgasor,
Well, Last night too busy with my family time, But This Saturday morning at my Home Office, At the Printer room, I close all the Blind and turn off the Lights= Very dark--And Use My dear Canon EOS-M with 18-55 Lens, Set at AV Mode, F= 4.5, and Suck the air out of my Lung, and shoot these photos with 2 sec. Time delay/ Self Timer = ITS WORKS, SIR= thousand thanks for your great trick, Dear teacher Mr. Yorgasor.
yes, I will copy your tricks in my FB, for all of my Photographers friend to learn from you too.
Thanks again, Sir.
Surapon


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## yorgasor (Apr 20, 2014)

surapon said:


> surapon said:
> 
> 
> > Ye, Thank you, Sir , dear friend yorgasor,
> ...



Wow, those are good shots for handheld at 1 second. I'm glad you found it helpful


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## RustyTheGeek (Apr 30, 2014)

I use the rifle stance/breathing technique all the time and wrap my left arm in front of me or rest it on my body to support the camera or lens. I basically try to become one with the camera to avoid vibration, etc.

Yay *surapon*!! I've used bungee cords with a monopod several times! You and I would have fun comparing DIY contraptions. Only problem with attaching to a railing like that in public venues is the vibration caused by people shaking the concrete floor or bumping the rail somewhere down the line. Eventually I stopped using monopods most of the time because I could use the above technique to achieve shots down to 1/15 or 1/30 (worst case) with a zoom lens. Anything below that just requires a tripod, no other way around it. And my carbon fiber monopod weighs almost the same as my fancy manfrotto adjustable monopod anyway.


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## surapon (Apr 30, 2014)

RustyTheGeek said:


> I use the rifle stance/breathing technique all the time and wrap my left arm in front of me or rest it on my body to support the camera or lens. I basically try to become one with the camera to avoid vibration, etc.
> 
> Yay *surapon*!! I've used bungee cords with a monopod several times! You and I would have fun comparing DIY contraptions. Only problem with attaching to a railing like that in public venues is the vibration caused by people shaking the concrete floor or bumping the rail somewhere down the line. Eventually I stopped using monopods most of the time because I could use the above technique to achieve shots down to 1/15 or 1/30 (worst case) with a zoom lens. Anything below that just requires a tripod, no other way around it. And my carbon fiber monopod weighs almost the same as my fancy manfrotto adjustable monopod anyway.



Dear Mr. RustyTheGeek -----Welcome to Club, MacGyver's Club ( TV. Movie) and our friend Mr. Mackguyer's Club too==We all use the duct tape and Love Bungee cords, and try to solve the problems and make the better mouse trap.
Have a Great Day , Sir.
Surapon,.
PS. I tired my Monopod and Big Lens to the rand Rail, Yes, I know some one will grab the Rand rail and make vibration, That Why I set IS. All the time, although on the monopod---It solve my Problem of that Vibration.


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## yorgasor (Jun 12, 2014)

surapon said:


> Dear Friends.
> Sorry, I do not have 300 mm. yet, But for my dear 600mm. + 2X, I must use Monopod and Elastic Rops to tie the monopods to the Metal Hand rails for shoot the Baseball at the Baseball stadium, half miles away( ?) from the Homebase. Yes, I have no choice, if I do not use the heavy weight Tripods.
> Enjoy.
> Surapon



Surapon,

Yesterday, a few photographers from a local photography club shot a high school girls' softball game. We were told to bring a small step ladder or 5 gallon bucket to stand on so we could shoot over the fence. I was really excited to finally get a chance to try out the technique of attaching a tripod to the fence. All the other guys looked on jealously as I had my big Nikon 300mm AIS lens w/ canon 1.4x extender on a tripod attached to the fence, locked on the home plate, leaving me open to use my other camera to shoot the action on the field. One guy said, "Wow, I've been shooting high school games for 20 years, and I've never seen that. You've really come prepared!" "You must be a professional!"

So, thanks for making me look good 



5D3_0752 by yorgasor, on Flickr



5D3_0792 by yorgasor, on Flickr



5D3_0736 by yorgasor, on Flickr


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## jrista (Jun 12, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> mackguyver said:
> 
> 
> > Check out the third photo on this page (of Arthur Morris) - that's how I hold my lenses, if they have feet.
> ...



Ah! But you see, the tongue is part of the whole Morris Special Technique. It acts like a wind sensor, giving you early cues as to direction and strength, allowing you to preemptively combat wind pressure. Besides, it makes you look like a goofball, so the birds won't be afraid.  You GOTTA stick the tongue out!


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## wickidwombat (Jun 12, 2014)

mackguyver said:


> surapon said:
> 
> 
> > mackguyver said:
> ...



I actually think that the tv show copied surapon! I hope you're getting royalties mate


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## Roo (Jun 12, 2014)

jrista said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > mackguyver said:
> ...



I'm glad you cleared that up. I was thinking it might be a good technique to fine tune my balance ;D


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## pwp (Jun 12, 2014)

TeT said:


> Using my 300 4 L IS with either a crop body or 6d I get blur. I correct this by leaning my left shoulder against something. Do not have same issue with the 70 200 L. I do not want to always use a monopod as it is often getting in the way.


John the biggest cause of image blur when using longer lenses is camera shake. Go back and check the exif/metadata in the shots where you missed focus and check the shutter speed. Long lenses need a very steady hand, and preferably a monopod. Also, accurate positioning of focus points can be critical. The 300 f/4is is a very sharp lens, even wide open. Get your shutter speeds up!

When using long glass I'll routinely shoot wide open and adjust iso to get an appropriate, fast shutter speed. Anything where there is action involved will benefit from shutter speeds of over 1/1000th. It's not as fast as you'd expect...in peak moments in fast action sports, you'll even find a touch of motion blur in a perfectly focused shot.

-pw


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## AcutancePhotography (Jun 12, 2014)

Of course, if you want to know how the "real" "pros" hold their camera, we can all learn from this

How to look like a Pro Tog

About 2 minutes into the video is where we get some real instruction on holding the camera.


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