# IBIS coming to EOS M in 2020 [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Apr 16, 2020)

> I recently reported that two EOS M cameras were scheduled to launch in 2020, one is a follow-up to the very popular EOS M50, the other is apparently going to be above the EOS M6 Mark II, but this source claims that it won’t be an EOS M5 Mark II.
> The higher-end EOS M camera will reportedly come equipped with IBIS, something we’ll see first in the upcoming EOS R5 and EOS R6.
> The EOS M50 Mark II will not have IBIS according to this source.
> This is a [CR1] rumor, please treat it accordingly.



Continue reading...


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## pj1974 (Apr 16, 2020)

Very interesting piece of (CR1) news/ rumour....
I love my M5.. and would really love an IBIS in a Canon APS-C mirrorless... would really help with some of the lenses that I have (e.g. Canon 22mm f/2) and the Samyang 12mm f/2. In the future I may also buy the EF-M 32mm... so let's stay tuned. 

Each of my EF-M lenses (yes, even the 'lowly' 15-45mm STM, which cops some unfair flak at times) - is GREAT bang for buck / quality for size.
But especially so the primes!  So IBIS would really be lovely... 

(... and yes, I'm hoping/planning to get the R5 ... too.... )


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## jolyonralph (Apr 16, 2020)

EOS M7 inevitable obviously.


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## Bob Howland (Apr 16, 2020)

IBIS would be most welcome with the Sigma f/1.4 trinity lenses. But I really wish that Canon would introduce an f/4 trinity of zoom lenses. (I might even buy them.) Alternatively, they could make the R5 and/or R6 bodies, mostly the R6, as small as the RP and SL1/2/3.


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## lglass12189 (Apr 16, 2020)

IBIS would be nice but I hope they give it a permanent EVF instead of the "Strap-on" EVF the M6 MK II has.


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## Mark3794 (Apr 16, 2020)

Eos M7 and 7D mark III dual announcement like the M6/90D.

I said it.


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## mb66energy (Apr 16, 2020)

While I like the M50 very much I had the chance to buy an EOS RP set wich wasn't that much more (body only) than the M50 and I have to say: The EOS RP is - ergonomically - much much better than the M50, because of one wheel (two wheels with RF 35) more and some additional buttons. Small AF point WITH Servo, rocks, audio levels in video rock.
So some M5 style body with IBIS might be an option if ... if R6 isn't much better in a similar price range and might lead to ONE mount system in my bag ... if I supply my EF lenses with three or four EF-RF adapters.
The M50 will then be welded to the 32mm - I think I will keep that camera and lens for decades because this is my snapshot set with high quality ambitions.
My 200D is now my youtube cam for schooling on a desk stand looking down to show my students during lockdown at least a little bit about geometry or physics.
Just forgotten to say: EOS M with IBIS is a great addition to the Canon lineup ...


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## SV (Apr 16, 2020)

jolyonralph said:


> EOS M7 inevitable obviously.



EOS M-007 [corrected it for you  ]


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## mcfrlnd (Apr 16, 2020)

RP body or similar would be great for the higher end model. The point and shoot sizes of the current crop of M bodies is just too small...and get a bigger battery in those things!!


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## zonoskar (Apr 16, 2020)

SV said:


> EOS M-007 [corrected it for you  ]


Licensed to shoot.


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## -pekr- (Apr 16, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...



First - releasing an M50 II without an IBIS is a suicide, especially in a situation, when Canon users are going to be warmed up to the IBIS by R5/R6 releases. Second - give me the M6 III with IBIS and pop-up viewfinder, please


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## Trout Bum (Apr 16, 2020)

I haven't had my M6II for long, but it's getting replaced with the first M with IBIS. Gotta have it for video, especially.


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## slclick (Apr 16, 2020)

It's not too late to rename the M series to match the XD nomenclature. Just add an X to the M.


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## Deleted member 378664 (Apr 16, 2020)

When IBIS is useful especially for videographers and the M50 was more video oriented than the M5, why should the M50II not get IBIS then?
I tend to not believe this CR1 rated rumor.

Frank


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## Mark3794 (Apr 16, 2020)

Photorex said:


> When IBIS is useful especially for videographers and the M50 was more video oriented than the M5, why should the M50II not get IBIS then?
> I tend to not believe this CR1 rated rumor.
> 
> Frank



Because the M50 is first of all a cheap camera, i got it almost two years ago for 500 euros

There isn't another camera as capable as the M50 at that price level


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## koenkooi (Apr 16, 2020)

Mark3794 said:


> Because the M50 is first of all a cheap camera, i got it almost two years ago for 500 euros
> 
> There isn't another camera as capable as the M50 at that price level



When it came out, it was the most advanced mirrorless camera Canon had to offer, so from that perspective it would make sense that it will have IBIS. But most of the M50 features were software and/or digic related, so pretty much 'free'. IBIS would cost real money to add, so if 'cheap' is the driving force, IBIS will likely be left out.


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## flaviojzk (Apr 16, 2020)

Yes, please, keep the M mount alive! Nothing beats it as far as quality / size / price / user interface.


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## sanj (Apr 16, 2020)

CR1 is to be treated rough or gentle? Just asking as you have requested to treat it 'accordingly'. Just asking.


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## Philrp (Apr 16, 2020)

EOS-M7 with ran RF mount.... come on Canon!

I could understand them wanting to keep the APS-C sensor under the M label, but the RF mount is a must.


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## TinTin (Apr 16, 2020)

What a way to create confusion in the marketplace!

If it uses an RF mount, it's an EOS R camera; if it uses EF-M, it's an EOS M. There's no way Canon would create a muddle by mixing them up!


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## SteveC (Apr 16, 2020)

It may not be called an M5 mark II. But if it improves on the M5, it basically is for all intents and purposes.

If it does what my M6-II does, plus has a viewfinder and a full articulated screen, it's all I was hoping for from the M5-II that never happened. Adding IBIS to that would be a bonus.

I don't see them putting IBIS into the M50. Contrary to what someone above wrote, it wouldn't be free for them to do so; the mount for the sensor would have to change, and it might force a change to the depth of the body to accommodate a mount that lets the sensor move. The mount itself would be more expensive, too. The M50 is pretty much the "one up from the entry level" mirrorless at this point (I believe there's still an M100 out there as the true entry level), similar to the Rebel "i" models, and adding IBIS would add to the cost. Better to put it in more expensive models.


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## Bob Howland (Apr 16, 2020)

TinTin said:


> What a way to create confusion in the marketplace!
> 
> If it uses an RF mount, it's an EOS R camera; if it uses EF-M, it's an EOS M. There's no way Canon would create a muddle by mixing them up!


But can they make an EOS R almost as small as an M5? Almost certainly yes.


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## Danglin52 (Apr 16, 2020)

mcfrlnd said:


> RP body or similar would be great for the higher end model. The point and shoot sizes of the current crop of M bodies is just too small...and get a bigger battery in those things!!


Give me the M6 II capabilities, high performance / refresh rate EVF, weather sealing - I will place my order on announcement. Give me RP size body & IBIS and I will be even happier. I want to use this camera as a backup for my 1dx II when I am weight restricted on gear during wildlife trips. I also get benefit from the 1.6x crop if necessary.


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## slclick (Apr 16, 2020)

Bob Howland said:


> But can they make an EOS R almost as small as an M5? Almost certainly yes.


The Sigma FP shows us what is possible albeit without some of the things we wish for in Canon lines.


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## picperfect (Apr 16, 2020)

slclick said:


> The Sigma FP shows us what is possible albeit without some of the things we wish for in Canon lines.



no matter what they say, Sigma fp is a video cam, without viewfinder, no mech shutter and no global electronic shutter either. epic fail as a stills camera.

But for sure FF-sensor R-mount camera with all the goods (excellent sensor and AF, state of the art pop-up EVF, IBIS, 500 shot charge battery and dual SD UHS-II slots) would be possible in a somewhat more compact form factor than RP. Even more so, if ut was a pure stills camera without having to cater for excessive video cooling, mics, speakers, audio amps and darn headphone jacks.


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## Philrp (Apr 16, 2020)

TinTin said:


> What a way to create confusion in the marketplace!
> 
> If it uses an RF mount, it's an EOS R camera; if it uses EF-M, it's an EOS M. There's no way Canon would create a muddle by mixing them up!



People survived the confusion EF-S caused. I'm not worried. 

Canon may indeed want to sell all that nice R glass to M7 owners, and, unless they change the mount, R can't be adapted to M, as far as i understand


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## tron (Apr 16, 2020)

SV said:


> EOS M-007 [corrected it for you  ]


Its name will be Bond, EOS Bond


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## -pekr- (Apr 16, 2020)

TinTin said:


> What a way to create confusion in the marketplace!
> 
> If it uses an RF mount, it's an EOS R camera; if it uses EF-M, it's an EOS M. There's no way Canon would create a muddle by mixing them up!



The things is, that the Muddle already exists and is called an EF-M, along with the zero upgrade path towards the RF mount.


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## Whowe (Apr 16, 2020)

Danglin52 said:


> Give me the M6 II capabilities, high performance / refresh rate EVF, weather sealing - I will place my order on announcement. Give me RP size body & IBIS and I will be even happier.



I agree! I would like the RP size body with a battery grip. A little more to hold on to when using longer lenses, like 100-400, etc.


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## Andy Westwood (Apr 16, 2020)

TinTin said:


> What a way to create confusion in the marketplace!
> 
> If it uses an RF mount, it's an EOS R camera; if it uses EF-M, it's an EOS M. There's no way Canon would create a muddle by mixing them up!



Agreed! Nikon did this with the crop sensor Z50 mixing it with FF Z6 & Z7 models not a good idea in my opinion. The EOS M Series should stick to crop senor and the EOS R with FF.

I like the M Series because of its very compact size and light weight bodies and lenses.


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## SteveC (Apr 16, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> The things is, that the Muddle already exists and is called an EF-M, along with the zero upgrade path towards the RF mount.



Muddled means confused. It's not confused; the dividing line is very clear.

The fact that it's harder to cross it is a different complaint altogether.


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## slclick (Apr 16, 2020)

picperfect said:


> no matter what they say, Sigma fp is a video cam, without viewfinder, no mech shutter and no global electronic shutter either. epic fail as a stills camera.
> 
> But for sure FF-sensor R-mount camera with all the goods (excellent sensor and AF, state of the art pop-up EVF, IBIS, 500 shot charge battery and dual SD UHS-II slots) would be possible in a somewhat more compact form factor than RP. Even more so, if ut was a pure stills camera without having to cater for excessive video cooling, mics, speakers, audio amps and darn headphone jacks.


thus me writing, albeit, yadda yadda yadda.....It was a size comment.


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## IcyBergs (Apr 16, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> The things is, that the Muddle already exists and is called an EF-M, along with the zero upgrade path towards the RF mount.


There is a clear upgrade path from M to R...buy an R


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## jolyonralph (Apr 16, 2020)

Philrp said:


> People survived the confusion EF-S caused. I'm not worried.
> 
> Canon may indeed want to sell all that nice R glass to M7 owners, and, unless they change the mount, R can't be adapted to M, as far as i understand



Nope. That won't happen. No M7 owner is going to buy $3000 glass.

I think that Canon would be crazy to launch an APS-C R camera. Right now they are avoiding confusion by having the APS-C and FF mounts separate. I didn't think originally that's what they would do, but hey, they did it, and now they're making it work.

It's no different to how it was before.

If you had an APS-C DSLR and bought EF-S lenses you couldn't use them at all when you upgraded to full frame ("But! EF-S 10-22!" - yes I know, but shut up) however if you bought EF lenses you can still use them on the new camera.

Now. If you have an APS-C M series and buy EF-M lenses you can't use them at all when you upgrade to full frame however if you bought EF lenses you can still use them on the new EOS R series camera.

It used to be that you couldn't have fast frame rate and a high dot pitch full frame sensor, so the EOS 7D series were essential for giving photographers faster frame rates and a high dot pitch but smaller sensor. That's not an issue so much these days. 

The EOS R5 (or possibly is successors) will be the real EOS 7 series replacements. There's no need for an APS-C 'R' series camera.

IF you want a high performance APS-C camera, then the EOS M series will do you nicely.


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## Andy Westwood (Apr 16, 2020)

Bob Howland said:


> But can they make an EOS R almost as small as an M5? Almost certainly yes.



It's called an EOS RP

RP = 440g M5 = 427g the only challenge is keeping down the weight of the RF glass, there are some already, the RF 35mm f1.8 = 305g and the coming Canon RF 24-105mm f4-7.1 = just 395g whereas the EF-M glass is generally between 100g to 250g relatively cheap and plastic yes but super lightweight and perfectly designed for current EOS M bodies.


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## picperfect (Apr 17, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> The things is, that the Muddle already exists and is called an EF-M, along with the zero upgrade path towards the RF mount.



2 different sensor sizes, 2 optimized mount, 2 optimized sets of lenses. APS-C has only 2 reasons to exist: 1. significantly smaller than FF gear, 2. significantly less expensive. Canon is 100% there with both lines: M and R. 

upgrade path no problem. anybody able to afford R / RF glass has no problem to lose a few bucks selling an M body and 1 or 2 or 3 EF-M lenses.


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## flaviojzk (Apr 17, 2020)

picperfect said:


> 2 different sensor sizes, 2 optimized mount, 2 optimized sets of lenses. APS-C has only 2 reasons to exist: 1. significantly smaller than FF gear, 2. significantly less expensive. Canon is 100% there with both lines: M and R.
> 
> upgrade path no problem. anybody able to afford R / RF glass has no problem to lose a few bucks selling an M body and 1 or 2 or 3 EF-M lenses.


Totally agree. Don’t think it makes sense to buy expensive and big ff glass and a cheap APS-C body just because you may want to upgrade in the future, specially when the M apsc bodies are designed for portability and high value for money.


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## Danglin52 (Apr 17, 2020)

Whowe said:


> I agree! I would like the RP size body with a battery grip. A little more to hold on to when using longer lenses, like 100-400, etc.



Agree for exactly the reason you stated. Even with a grip, a m6 II format would still be very small and hard to hold with a 100-400 II. I actually shoot that combination occasionally but I need a little more camera to hang onto. I think Canon would find that people committed to the M line might buy both camera for different purposes, same situation that happens with he EOS EF line when people want a full featured body plus a lighter spec backup. I am realistic and expect that the camera I want would be slightly north of $1,500. As I stated on another post, a Fuji X-T4 spec/style camera by Canon, maybe even slightly larger. Basically, the 7d II replacement people want in a mirrorless format. This is also attractive from the standpoint it would give you a strong mirrorless option that can pair with a traditional DSLR and shoot common EF glass.


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## picperfect (Apr 17, 2020)

Danglin52 said:


> Agree for exactly the reason you stated. Even with a grip, a m6 II format would still be very small and hard to hold with a 100-400 II. I actually shoot that combination occasionally but I need a little more camera to hang onto. I think Canon would find that people committed to the M line might buy both camera for different purposes, same situation that happens with he EOS EF line when people want a full featured body plus a lighter spec backup. I am realistic and expect that the camera I want would be slightly north of $1,500. As I stated on another post, a Fuji X-T4 spec/style camera by Canon, maybe even slightly larger. Basically, the 7d II replacement people want in a mirrorless format. This is also attractive from the standpoint it would give you a strong mirrorless option that can pair with a traditional DSLR and shoot common EF glass.



luckily Canon also has a good selection of large and very large camera bodies for your 100-400. 

EOS M lineup caters to the essence of crop gear: 1. small size and 2. low price.

100-400 L glass is a different use case. Although i myself have also been shooting with a (tamron) 150-600 attached to a tiny EOS M (1st gen). of course the lens - just like the 100-400 - had a tripod foot which i used to put the combo on a tripod. no problem with camera body or grip being too small.

is it really so hard to understand Canon's product lines? if you got the money and dont mind or want things big, get a big FF camera and big FF lenses. and if you want things small, light and affordable, get a crop camera and crop lenses. if you want both, get both.

where is the problem?


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## LSXPhotog (Apr 17, 2020)

Do I smell an M1 coming? Once the R5 and R6 come out, that may leave more room for a high-end M camera. But, as it sits right now, the M6 Mark II is a significantly more capable camera than either the EOS RP or R. Had the M6 Mark II come with a built-in EVF it would have really trounced on the EOS R.


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## slclick (Apr 17, 2020)

LSXPhotog said:


> Do I smell an M1 coming? Once the R5 and R6 come out, that may leave more room for a high-end M camera. But, as it sits right now, the M6 Mark II is a significantly more capable camera than either the EOS RP or R. Had the M6 Mark II come with a built-in EVF it would have really trounced on the EOS R.


Ok, I will take the bait. Give me a head to head list of how the M6ll bests the R. I'm all ears.(significantly more capable requires multiple substantial specs) GO!


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## Danglin52 (Apr 17, 2020)

picperfect said:


> luckily Canon also has a good selection of large and very large camera bodies for your 100-400.
> 
> EOS M lineup caters to the essence of crop gear: 1. small size and 2. low price.
> 
> ...



I have been using Canon gear since 2000, so I have a pretty good understanding of Canon product lines. If you look at the capabilities of the 90d and the M6 II they are are almost identical. The problem is that the 90d does not perform as well as the M6 II especially on tracking. I tested the 90d in Yellowstone and it had a problem maintaining focus on bursts around 6-8 shots. It would loose focus and then come back after 2-3 missed shots. Apparently, if you shoot in Live View mode, the 90d can maintain focus. If you look at my gear list, you will see that I do shoot a heavy body (1dx II) and just sold my 5dIV late last year to clear the way for the R5. I do a lot of big trips and like to have reliable backups to my main camera. I would also like to keep a have a smaller camera (90d or M5/M6 II) that I can substitute if I have weight restriction on want a smaller camera as walk around. I have done what you described with the M6 II attached to my 200-400 mounted on a tripod, funny to see but works pretty well. The reason I would like a X-T4 sized camera is it would give a little more heft while still being small and would make an awesome walk around combination with the APS-C sized sensor. I think the M?? rumored could have the potential to meet the needs of those in the XXD line that want a fully capable camera that can use small, light lenses from the M line while having full compatibility with EF via the adaptor. Canon has the XXD and XXXD APS-C lines I am sure they would like to move to mirrorless since those are both eroding. I see a lot of other folks on the forum driven by their unique needs, so I took my shot. BTW - Even without large lenses, I have large hands that are tight fit on the m6II - M5 felt a little better. 

David


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## picperfect (Apr 17, 2020)

i do agree that an EOS M7 should be (at least) on par with Fuji XT-4. But since i have small hands and travel and mountaineer and ski ... i'd prefer it to be as compact and light as possible.


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## mcfrlnd (Apr 17, 2020)

At some point Canon is going to phase out DSLR entirely. I can't imagine it taking longer than a few years. They've already established the R as the heir apparent to FF body lineup. It may not be exactly what we have today or impending future, but I can't imagine it being wholly different. I don't know what they're thinking for their higher tier crop bodies. The current EOS M lineup is greatly insufficient to take over for the 70-80-90D. Maybe the upcoming higher end model will provide answers. I hope so, and hopefully it'll be close to the RP size and and provide the much wanted traditional camera feel. Maybe the RP was the test bed in FF disguise? I dunno, but they're going to have to address the better APS-C mirrorless transition soon...or they could just drop it entirely given the current global crisis.


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## IcyBergs (Apr 17, 2020)

picperfect said:


> luckily Canon also has a good selection of large and very large camera bodies for your 100-400.
> 
> EOS M lineup caters to the essence of crop gear: 1. small size and 2. low price.
> 
> ...



The problem is Canon won't cannibalize the EOS R that is primed to dominate enthusiast and professional camera sales for the foreseeable future continuing a legacy of ILC dominance that they have maintained for nearly 2 straight decades by releasing a Fuji X-T4 competitor with a full suite of L grade APS-C glass for the new professional crop camera line.


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## David - Sydney (Apr 17, 2020)

tron said:


> Its name will be Bond, EOS Bond


Let's be clear... M is Bond's boss!





M (James Bond) - Wikipedia







en.wikipedia.org


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## David - Sydney (Apr 17, 2020)

IcyBergs said:


> The problem is Canon won't cannibalize the EOS R that is primed to dominate enthusiast and professional camera sales for the foreseeable future continuing a legacy of ILC dominance that they have maintained for nearly 2 straight decades by releasing a Fuji X-T4 competitor with a full suite of L grade APS-C glass for the new professional crop camera line.


I think that it is clear that the R5 with crop will fit all the ex-7 series requirements (speed, tracking, reach etc) but at a cost. Weather sealing is still be proven though. It would still be cheaper than a 1Dx of course.
I believe that the real advantage of the 7 series was price/value.
Owners of big white L lens would use the R5 although M7 could be a backup for EF lens. 
Would M7 owners use the 100-400mm and maybe an extender - much more likely - assuming that it has the features mentioned above the M6ii and perhaps a tad physically larger. Speed and tracking (with "reach" from APS-C sensor) would be much better than the RP and R but price will be interesting to see.


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## Pape (Apr 17, 2020)

picperfect said:


> i do agree that an EOS M7 should be (at least) on par with Fuji XT-4. But since i have small hands and travel and mountaineer and ski ... i'd prefer it to be as compact and light as possible.


So you suggesting tall peoples should have another hobby or camera brand


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## slclick (Apr 17, 2020)

So there we have it

M7 specs:


Lens Mount EF-M
Camera Format APS-C (1.6x Crop Factor)
Pixels Effective: 26.1 Megapixel
Maximum Resolution 6240 x 4160
Aspect Ratio 1:1, 3:2, 16:9
Sensor Type CMOS
Sensor Size 23.5 x 15.6 mm
Image File Format JPEG, Raw, TIFF
Bit Depth 16-Bit
Image Stabilization Sensor-Shift, 5-Axis
Exposure Control
ISO Sensitivity Auto, 160 to 12800 (Extended: 80 to 51200)
Shutter Speed Mechanical Shutter
1/8000 to 900 Second in Manual Mode 
1/8000 to 900 Second in Shutter Priority Mode 
1/8000 to 30 Second in Aperture Priority Mode 
1/8000 to 4 Second in Program Mode 
0 to 60 Minute in Bulb Mode 
Electronic Shutter
1/32000 to 900 Second in Manual Mode 
1/32000 to 900 Second in Shutter Priority Mode 
1/32000 to 30 Second in Aperture Priority Mode 
1/32000 to 4 Second in Program Mode 
1 to 1 Second in Bulb Mode 
Electronic Front Curtain Shutter
1/8000 to 900 Second in Manual Mode 
1/8000 to 900 Second in Shutter Priority Mode 
1/8000 to 30 Second in Aperture Priority Mode 
1/8000 to 4 Second in Program Mode 
0 to 60 Minute in Bulb Mode 
Electronic Shutter
1/8000 to 1/4 Second in Movie Mode
Metering Method Average, Center-Weighted Average, Multiple, Spot
Exposure Modes Aperture Priority, Manual, Program, Shutter Priority
Exposure Compensation -5 to +5 EV (1/3 EV Steps)
White Balance Auto, Color Temperature, Custom, Fine, Fluorescent (Cool White), Fluorescent (Daylight), Fluorescent (Warm White), Incandescent, Shade, Underwater
Continuous Shooting Mechanical Shutter
Up to 15 fps at 26.1 MP for up to 38 Frames (Raw) / 110 Frames (JPEG)
Up to 10 fps at 26.1 MP for up to 44 Frames (Raw) / 164 Frames (JPEG)
Up to 8 fps at 26.1 MP for up to 49 Frames (Raw) / 200 Frames (JPEG)
Electronic Shutter
Up to 20 fps at 26.1 MP for up to 36 Frames (Raw) / 79 Frames (JPEG)
Up to 30 fps at 20.9 MP for up to 35 Frames (Raw) / 60 Frames (JPEG)
Up to 20 fps at 20.9 MP for up to 37 Frames (Raw) / 114 Frames (JPEG)
Up to 10 fps at 20.9 MP for up to 48 Frames (Raw) / 500 Frames (JPEG)
Interval Recording Yes
Self-Timer 2/10-Second Delay
Video
Recording Modes MOV/H.264/H.265 10-Bit
DCI 4K (4096 x 2160) at 23.976p/24.00p/25p/29.97p/50p/59.94p [100 to 400 Mb/s] 
UHD 4K (3840 x 2160) at 23.976p/24.00p/25p/29.97p/50p/59.94p [100 to 400 Mb/s] 
DCI 2K (2048 x 1080) at 23.976p/24.00p/25p/29.97p/50p/59.94p [50 to 200 Mb/s] 
Full HD (1920 x 1080) at 23.976p/24.00p/25p/29.97p/50p/59.94p/100p/119.88p/240p [50 to 200 Mb/s]
External Recording Modes 10-Bit
DCI 4K (4096 x 2160)
Recording Limit Up to 30 Minutes
Video Encoding NTSC/PAL
Audio Recording Built-In Microphone (Stereo)
External Microphone Input (Stereo)
Audio File Format AAC, Linear PCM (Stereo)
Focus
Focus Type Auto and Manual Focus
Focus Mode Continuous-Servo AF (C), Manual Focus (M), Single-Servo AF (S)
Autofocus Points Phase Detection: 425
Viewfinder and Monitor
Viewfinder Type Electronic (OLED)
Viewfinder Size 0.5"
Viewfinder Resolution 3,690,000 Dot
Viewfinder Eye Point 23 mm
Viewfinder Coverage 100%
Viewfinder Magnification Approx. 0.75x
Diopter Adjustment -4 to +2
Monitor Size 3"
Monitor Resolution 1,620,000 Dot
Monitor Type Articulating Touchscreen LCD
Flash
Built-In Flash No
Flash Modes Commander, Manual, Off, Slow Sync, TTL Auto
Maximum Sync Speed 1/250 Second
Dedicated Flash System TTL
External Flash Connection Hot Shoe, PC Terminal
Interface
Memory Card Slot Dual Slot: SD/SDHC/SDXC (UHS-II)
Connectivity USB Type-C (USB 3.1), HDMI D (Micro), 3.5mm Microphone, 2.5mm Sub-Mini, PC Sync Socket
Wireless Bluetooth
Wi-Fi
GPS No
Environmental
Operating Temperature 14 to 104°F / -10 to 40°C
Operating Humidity 10 to 80%
Physical
Battery 1 x NP-W235 Rechargeable Lithium-Ion, 7.2 VDC, 2200 mAh (Approx. 600 Shots)
Dimensions (W x H x D) 5.3 x 3.65 x 2.51" / 134.6 x 92.8 x 63.8 mm
Weight 1.16 lb / 526 g (Body Only)

Oh, forgot user height limit....


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## Pape (Apr 17, 2020)

I think its obvious M7 or M1 coming for those who need ultimate reach . There was patent for 100mm f2 macro and 100-400mm f7,1 already.
Camera what will be under RP, will be camera for those who need small and cheap camera for normal photography.
Ef-s and crop cameras were for small size and cheap price.It will be upside down on future. Full frame is just better camera on normal photography when you can get all reach you need by moving legs.


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## brad-man (Apr 17, 2020)

My, my. Being locked inside our homes is having some interesting effects...


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## -pekr- (Apr 17, 2020)

picperfect said:


> luckily Canon also has a good selection of large and very large camera bodies for your 100-400.
> 
> EOS M lineup caters to the essence of crop gear: 1. small size and 2. low price.
> 
> ...



"Is it really hard to understand Canon's produc lines?" - you tell me, as you are apparently not. The problem is you not undestanding the needs of all particular user groups. Where is a replacement for the 7DII users? EOS-M got fast, nice - but what about the body ergonomics? What about the reach due to the crop factor? If Canon is going to create a large M body and still keep the M mount, it will be a big fail, much bigger, than creating an R with APS-C, or allowing some crop mode.


----------



## picperfect (Apr 17, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> ... Where is a replacement for the 7DII users? EOS-M got fast, nice - but what about the body ergonomics? What about the reach due to the crop factor? If Canon is going to create a large M body and still keep the M mount, it will be a big fail, ...



Exactly. Big crop sensor / EOS M bodies make no sense.

7D II successors for those who mainly use long tele lenses (birding, wildlife) will be FF-sensor EOS R models. Resolution and speed are/will be fine, crop mode can be used for extra reach. Price will be somewhat higher than 7D II, but those who buy white Canon L tele lenses can typically afford it. 

that's how i read Canon product strategy.


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## SteveC (Apr 17, 2020)

picperfect said:


> Exactly. Big crop sensor / EOS M bodies make no sense.
> 
> 7D II successors for those who mainly use long tele lenses (birding, wildlife) will be FF-sensor EOS R models. Resolution and speed are/will be fine, crop mode can be used for extra reach. Price will be somewhat higher than 7D II, but those who buy white Canon L tele lenses can typically afford it.
> 
> that's how i read Canon product strategy.



This only makes sense if Canon comes out with a full frame with a very high pixel density/pitch. (There's no point offering a crop mode if the result has too low a resolution.)

However, this is precisely what they are going to do!

7D people, your Mark III is on its way, and it's called the R5. Or if you really want megapickles, wait for the R3/R5s.


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## Pape (Apr 17, 2020)

SteveC said:


> This only makes sense if Canon comes out with a full frame with a very high pixel density/pitch. (There's no point offering a crop mode if the result has too low a resolution.)
> 
> However, this is precisely what they are going to do!
> 
> 7D people, your Mark III is on its way, and it's called the R5. Or if you really want megapickles, wait for the R3/R5s.


R5 price will be like 5k on europe ,no really half serious hobby bird photographers camera. M7 could be 1k


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## SteveC (Apr 17, 2020)

Pape said:


> R5 price will be like 5k on europe ,no really half serious hobby bird photographers camera. M7 could be 1k



It could be...but would it be weather sealed and have a second card slot?

If that doesn't matter to someone, then yes this M7 (still rather hypothetical) could be the way to go for them.


----------



## Pape (Apr 17, 2020)

SteveC said:


> It could be...but would it be weather sealed and have a second card slot?
> 
> If that doesn't matter to someone, then yes this M7 (still rather hypothetical) could be the way to go for them.


i am not weather sealed ,i stay home when wet


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## Deleted member 378664 (Apr 17, 2020)

Whowe said:


> I agree! I would like the RP size body with a battery grip. A little more to hold on to when using longer lenses, like 100-400, etc.


Than you and Danglin are in for the upcoming R6. I do not understand the wish for EOS M in the size of the RP. EOS M is meant to be small and light and not for use with heavy telephoto zoom lenses like 100-400. Where is the logic in buying small and light and making it big and heavy again with such lenses plus a battery grip?


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## Cat_Interceptor (Apr 17, 2020)

slclick said:


> Ok, I will take the bait. Give me a head to head list of how the M6ll bests the R. I'm all ears.(significantly more capable requires multiple substantial specs) GO!



Speed is the big one, AF/Tracking ability is the second. Usability the third. So yes I would actually think it's signifigantly better - And if anyone says the IQ on the R is better than the M6 II well... I'm calling BS. Only under higly specific circumstances is the R better, esp given its not in any shape new re: processor. The only places the M6 II is behind is due to the basic frame it's in.

----

On a theoretical camera above the M6 II, I cant really see it being a genuine 7D II replacement. I tend to think that if they do a APS-C prosumer it'll be more likely a R7. As good as EF adapters are, I just cant see a 7D II style camera in the M line (7D style being more than just a camera with dual slots and a body that can be used as a weapon - it's effectively a cut down 1D in APS-C packaging)

It *will* have the M6 II's image processor, no doubt. The EVF will be intergrated. It will support far more with the hotshoe and connectivity. But M? No. If we ever see a 7D successor (C'mon Canon you know this would be a hot seller!) it will be in a R body. But as already pointed out ... unless the R5 isnt 100% war proof its the real 7D repalcement.



> Where is the logic in buying small and light and making it big and heavy again with such lenses plus a battery grip?



When it works as well in real life and real shooting, then there is great logic in it.


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## Jasonmc89 (Apr 17, 2020)

Mark3794 said:


> Eos M7 and 7D mark III dual announcement like the M6/90D.
> 
> I said it.


Shit I hope so


----------



## koenkooi (Apr 17, 2020)

Photorex said:


> Than you and Danglin are in for the upcoming R6. I do not understand the wish for EOS M in the size of the RP. EOS M is meant to be small and light and not for use with heavy telephoto zoom lenses like 100-400. Where is the logic in buying small and light and making it big and heavy again with such lenses plus a battery grip?



Canon both offer both the M6II, being small and light, and an M7, having a decent grip, while reusing a lot of components. I'd love to have a camera with the 'reach' of 32MP APS-C and 14fps, but a chunkier grip. With a smaller mount in a bigger body there's more space for things like a bigger EVF, more and bigger card slots, etc.

The M6II is great for macro, it balances relatively well with an MP-E 65mm or a EF-S 60mm + twin light, but it becomes really front heavy with the 100mm L. The RP is a lot better, but it's missing the FPS and raw burst features I'm using on the M6II to catch solitary bees taking off for flight. 

The R5 rumoured specs are close to perfect, it has 'reach' as well as IBIS. If it lacks RAW burst the 8k video would be a nice stand-in to catch bees in flight. But I believe an M7 would be half the price of an R5, which would leave room in the budget to get some extra lenses, like the Laowa probe lens.

Anyway, both the R7 and new Ms will be available after bee and dragon fly season over here, so lots of time to start saving for spring 2021 purchases


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## Del Paso (Apr 17, 2020)

Danglin52 said:


> Give me the M6 II capabilities, high performance / refresh rate EVF, weather sealing - I will place my order on announcement. Give me RP size body & IBIS and I will be even happier. I want to use this camera as a backup for my 1dx II when I am weight restricted on gear during wildlife trips. I also get benefit from the 1.6x crop if necessary.


That's exactly my point of view!


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## Del Paso (Apr 17, 2020)

Pape said:


> So you suggesting tall peoples should have another hobby or camera brand


And what shall I do with my shovel-like hands, maybe crush small cameras?


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## Del Paso (Apr 17, 2020)

picperfect said:


> i do agree that an EOS M7 should be (at least) on par with Fuji XT-4. But since i have small hands and travel and mountaineer and ski ... i'd prefer it to be as compact and light as possible.


Sorry, but I hate baby-cameras with tiny controls. The Olympus I bought for "everyday" use gets no use at all, though I know that many love it for its size...


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## jolyonralph (Apr 17, 2020)

Del Paso said:


> Sorry, but I hate baby-cameras with tiny controls. The Olympus I bought for "everyday" use gets no use at all, though I know that many love it for its size...



If there are enough people who feel this way then Canon will produce a camera suitable for you. Maybe a more chunky EOS M. 

But I suspect the economics favour the smaller camera because most people prefer compact.


----------



## i_SH (Apr 17, 2020)

Canon, stop keeping your M fans hungry on a lens plan! Give a pair of lenses 10-70 / 3.5-4.5 and 70-350 / 4-5.6!


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## HaroldC3 (Apr 17, 2020)

Canon won’t get any more of my money until a quality normal zoom lens is released.


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## picperfect (Apr 17, 2020)

Pape said:


> R5 price will be like 5k on europe ,no really half serious hobby bird photographers camera. M7 could be 1k



yes, R5 will be extremely expensive. Not least thanks to the cost of putting crazy 8k video into it, which 99% of the "7D" stills shooter audience does not need. 

Also, "1k" is totally unrealistic. 6D II is USD 850 MSRP - without any viewfinder = unfit for "typical 7D" usage scenario. Kit with EVF (and 15-45) is USD 1100 already. An M7 with IBIS, duals SD UHS-II slots, weathersealing and built-in EVF will be quite a bit higher. 

7D II was USD 1799 MSRP at launch in 09/2014. And Fuji X-T4 is USD 1699 MSRP at launch. An EOS "M7" on par with X-T4 will/would come in between at best 1599 and 1899, body only. 

On the EOS R side, R6 is the odd duck rumor. 20MP just does not make any sense to me. I'd rather be interested in 
1. "entry level" EOS RP II at USD 999, re-use EOS R/5D IV 30 MP sensor one more time, no IBIS, small form factor but LP-E6 type battery and 
2. "hi-rez" EOS R successor, below R5, stills-oriented, 50-60 MP, could come in at USD 2999, if they skimp on video specs.


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## picperfect (Apr 17, 2020)

i_SH said:


> Canon, stop keeping your M fans hungry on a lens plan! Give a pair of lenses 10-70 / 3.5-4.5 and 70-350 / 4-5.6!



no thanks. Not any more variable aperture zooms that go to small aperture already 5 mm into focal range. And a 70-350/4-5.6 is not doable in a size approrpiate forEOS M lineup. Just look at the EF 70-300 size - and add another 50mm focal length.  No way.



HaroldC3 said:


> Canon won’t get any more of my money until a quality normal zoom lens is released.



yep. a compact, excellent IQ, constant aperture and yet affordable EF-M 15-60/4.0 IS STM would be good.


----------



## Philrp (Apr 17, 2020)

Just an FYI about 7D owners and why we liked them. And why we are not thrilled with the M series (I say "we" as i've known a few, but that certainly does not include everybody who owns a 7D)

7D offered:
1- Canon 1DX features: speed, focus points, joystick, etc etc etc
2- Priced for non pros thanks to the Crop sensor
3- Many bought quality EF lenses, and not EF-S

Right now, there is nothing in Canon's lineup that addresses this segment. Buying an M camera would be fine, with my existing EF glass, but what new glass can I really buy for it? Not buying M lenses to go along with my 70-200 2.8 II, that's for sure.

I really suspect Canon will combine APS-C and RF mount, but how and in which line remains the question.

Cheers!


----------



## SecureGSM (Apr 17, 2020)

Philrp said:


> Just an FYI about 7D owners and why we liked them. And why we are not thrilled with the M series (I say "we" as i've known a few, but that certainly does not include everybody who owns a 7D)
> 
> 7D offered:
> 1- Canon 1DX features: speed, focus points, joystick, etc etc etc
> ...



there is (highly likely) an in-built x1.6 crop mode in upcoming R5, 45MPs sensor. equivalent to around 18MP APC-S. with 12FPS mechanical shutter, joystick, dual memory cards, 5 series level ruggedness and weather-protection, excellent AF( animal eye AF) and compatibility to EF glass.
and a higher resolution Canon RF camera is likely to be released in 2021.


----------



## jolyonralph (Apr 17, 2020)

picperfect said:


> yes, R5 will be extremely expensive. Not least thanks to the cost of putting crazy 8k video into it, which 99% of the "7D" stills shooter audience does not need.



Cost of adding 8K video recording to a camera which already has the suitable throughput for coping with it is pretty close to zero. The throughput that's needed for 8K is also what's needed for the high framerate at high resolution.

Taking it out of the R5 would probably save $10 on the price, if that, and that's only due to needing one less button and maybe a smaller heat sink.

Please stop with all the R5 price scaremongering nonsense. We'll know soon enough.


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## koenkooi (Apr 17, 2020)

jolyonralph said:


> Cost of adding 8K video recording to a camera which already has the suitable throughput for coping with it is pretty close to zero. The throughput that's needed for 8K is also what's needed for the high framerate at high resolution.[..]



And if it's RAW video like on the 1DX3, the software work is on the computer side, DPP and the FCP-X plugins, not on the camera side. It is virtually the same thing Magic Lantern has been doing on the Canon cameras it supports: dump the sensor info straight to the card, up to 100MBytes/s for good old CF.


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## Etienne (Apr 17, 2020)

I'd like to see Canon make an EOS-M version of the R5. All the same specs and features but with a crop sensor and a smaller body. 
The M mount lenses are actually quite nice and deserve a really good body. I have the 11-22 IS, the 22 f/2, and the 32mm f/1.4 (my favorite). 
I also have a Samyang 12mm f/2. And Canon is planning other nice little primes ... These lenses deserve a great body, and this makes an awesome compact travel package!


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## Pape (Apr 17, 2020)

picperfect said:


> yes, R5 will be extremely expensive. Not least thanks to the cost of putting crazy 8k video into it, which 99% of the "7D" stills shooter audience does not need.
> 
> Also, "1k" is totally unrealistic. 6D II is USD 850 MSRP - without any viewfinder = unfit for "typical 7D" usage scenario. Kit with EVF (and 15-45) is USD 1100 already. An M7 with IBIS, duals SD UHS-II slots, weathersealing and built-in EVF will be quite a bit higher.
> 
> ...


Nah M serie camera wont get double cards and weather sealing .
How about 6dxii price +evf+ibis +digicX=1200 USD


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## BillB (Apr 17, 2020)

picperfect said:


> yep. a compact, excellent IQ, constant aperture and yet affordable EF-M 15-60/4.0 IS STM would be good.



There may be a reason that there aren’t many EF-M or EF-S F4 constant max aperture zooms. Maybe there is a problem putting F4 constant max aperture into the equation with compact, excellent IQ and yet affordable, especially at aps-c sales volumes.


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## miric (Apr 17, 2020)

EOS M will be discontinued later this year


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## Pape (Apr 17, 2020)

miric said:


> EOS M will be discontinued later this year


I guess that would make things lot more easy  R mount cameras getting darn small too.


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## docsmith (Apr 17, 2020)

I have been playing with my M6 II a bunch lately. It is very impressive. For those questioning its IQ, if nothing else, check out photons to photos and you'll see it has higher DR than the 5DIII up to ISO 640. I am finding the noise very manageable. 

For native lenses I am finding the AF very good. Move over to adapted EF lenses, and it loses a bit, but is still good (still forming my opinion here). 

But, overall, improve the AF a bit with adapted EF lenses in this higher end M, you have one heckuva camera. Add in IBIS, better. Built in EVF is personal preference.


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## slclick (Apr 17, 2020)

Cat_Interceptor said:


> Speed is the big one, AF/Tracking ability is the second. Usability the third. So yes I would actually think it's signifigantly better - And if anyone says the IQ on the R is better than the M6 II well... I'm calling BS. Only under higly specific circumstances is the R better, esp given its not in any shape new re: processor. The only places the M6 II is behind is due to the basic frame it's in.
> 
> ----
> 
> ...


Great thanks for sharing your opinions. Now, I'd love to hear about your shooting experience with the EOS R. I see you have an M6ll so you have real world experience with that, just wanted to know how you came to your conclusions. One by using the other by reading perhaps? Also some R users might want to chime in to give me a more complete picture.


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## Del Paso (Apr 17, 2020)

jolyonralph said:


> If there are enough people who feel this way then Canon will produce a camera suitable for you. Maybe a more chunky EOS M.
> 
> But I suspect the economics favour the smaller camera because most people prefer compact.


Well, I didn't mean the EOS M was not acceptable, what I actually meant was the I hated cameras getting smaller and smaller.
Hands don't !
But the M cameras are Canons, therefore ergonomically well designed, I DO like them!
But NOT the Olympusses, shudder....and the menus (?). Even though I know Olympusses are really fine cameras and lenses, just too small for me.


----------



## RichardS (Apr 17, 2020)

Nothing like a good rumour. One possibility for this new EOS Mx. that I cannot see anybody has speculated on is that instead of having an adaptor for EF lenses what if it was to have an adaptor for the R lenses. This would meet several objectives. Maintain the smaller size. Allow Canon to concentrate on R series lenses while having a smaller portfolio of EF-M The key to the M range is camera size. This competes with the MFT suppliers but provide APSC sensor which should be better. The concept has to be a winner. I am in the market to downsize but I do want good quality images and kit that allows me to do nature, aircraft, landscape and hopefulky macro. The Mx could be just what I am waiting for. We shall see.


----------



## Whowe (Apr 17, 2020)

Photorex said:


> Than you and Danglin are in for the upcoming R6. I do not understand the wish for EOS M in the size of the RP. EOS M is meant to be small and light and not for use with heavy telephoto zoom lenses like 100-400. Where is the logic in buying small and light and making it big and heavy again with such lenses plus a battery grip?


I don't see where the R6 will work as a replacement to a 7Dii. For wildlife/sports I really want an APS-C for the extra reach on a smaller/lighter 100-400 lens. (Can't afford and don't want to carry a 600 f4). The R6 is not rumored to have enough pixels for a crop mode. The R5 will be able to have about 18 MP in crop mode and that would be fine, but it will be an expensive camera for someone looking to replace/upgrade a 7Dii.

I am ready to switch to mirrorless, but there is not a good option right now. On the DSLR side, the 90D did not get the same autofocus that the 7Dii has. The R doesn't have the frame rate needed for sports/ wildlife, and the M6 doesn't have a built in viewfinder or ruggedness.

I don't necessarily "want" a bigger M series, I would just like an APS-C that meets the needs of sports/wildlife. That can be an APS-C R series for <$2000 or it could be an upgraded M series if Canon chooses to keep all APS in M series and full frame in R series. My guess is Canon plans to keep them separate for some reason. If that is the case, than the new high end M series would make since for the next APS-C sports/wildlife camera. I indicated I would like it "with a battery grip" specifically so the camera can still be a small for factor similar to other M series, but will provide better ergonomics for users that plan to put larger EF lenses on it.

Just my thoughts...


----------



## Dragon (Apr 17, 2020)

LSXPhotog said:


> Do I smell an M1 coming? Once the R5 and R6 come out, that may leave more room for a high-end M camera. But, as it sits right now, the M6 Mark II is a significantly more capable camera than either the EOS RP or R. Had the M6 Mark II come with a built-in EVF it would have really trounced on the EOS R.


M1 sounds like the right nomenclature, but of course, it will need to have a trigger to replace the shutter button .


----------



## Deleted member 378664 (Apr 17, 2020)

Whowe said:


> I don't see where the R6 will work as a replacement to a 7Dii. For wildlife/sports I really want an APS-C for the extra reach on a smaller/lighter 100-400 lens. (Can't afford and don't want to carry a 600 f4). The R6 is not rumored to have enough pixels for a crop mode. The R5 will be able to have about 18 MP in crop mode and that would be fine, but it will be an expensive camera for someone looking to replace/upgrade a 7Dii.
> 
> I am ready to switch to mirrorless, but there is not a good option right now. On the DSLR side, the 90D did not get the same autofocus that the 7Dii has. The R doesn't have the frame rate needed for sports/ wildlife, and the M6 doesn't have a built in viewfinder or ruggedness.
> 
> ...


Ah now I see where are you coming from. I overlooked your wish for a 7D successor. I guess this will be a tough one with Canon. The R5 which would look like a useful match in crop mode is too expensive, and the M series too small and not weather sealed enough. So something in between is missing and probably will be missing in future.
For me: I don't want a M series with built in EVF that is bigger than the M5, it should come in the same size as the M5 and with similar/better features as the M6II. Maybe the M50II will give me enough to upgrade from my M5 later (I surely wouldn't preorder or buy in early state). In this case I wouldn't mind if there will also b a M7 Camera (bigger, better weather sealing, 2 card slots) which could fill the now existing gap for the typical 7D User.


----------



## Whowe (Apr 17, 2020)

Photorex said:


> Ah now I see where are you coming from. I overlooked your wish for a 7D successor. I guess this will be a tough one with Canon. The R5 which would look like a useful match in crop mode is too expensive, and the M series too small and not weather sealed enough. So something in between is missing and probably will be missing in future.
> For me: I don't want a M series with built in EVF that is bigger than the M5, it should come in the same size as the M5 and with similar/better features as the M6II. Maybe the M50II will give me enough to upgrade from my M5 later (I surely wouldn't preorder or buy in early state). In this case I wouldn't mind if there will also b a M7 Camera (bigger, better weather sealing, 2 card slots) which could fill the now existing gap for the typical 7D User.


I haven't used the M5, but just adding a battery grip to that sized body could work and meet more than one user's requirements...


----------



## caffetin (Apr 17, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> Canon both offer both the M6II, being small and light, and an M7, having a decent grip, while reusing a lot of components. I'd love to have a camera with the 'reach' of 32MP APS-C and 14fps, but a chunkier grip. With a smaller mount in a bigger body there's more space for things like a bigger EVF, more and bigger card slots, etc.
> 
> The M6II is great for macro, it balances relatively well with an MP-E 65mm or a EF-S 60mm + twin light, but it becomes really front heavy with the 100mm L. The RP is a lot better, but it's missing the FPS and raw burst features I'm using on the M6II to catch solitary bees taking off for flight.
> 
> ...


just to ask,did you use the mp-e 65 with m6-ii.


----------



## slclick (Apr 17, 2020)

Whowe said:


> I haven't used the M5, but just adding a battery grip to that sized body could work and meet more than one user's requirements...


It still has very cramped controls, it is not a large handed persons camera.You can make it work but I would suggest turning off the multi function pad for the most part, it's seriously in the way. You also have top map the touchscreen to only have 1/3 active. I tried to love this camera but it had too many limitations. IQ, with certain lenses, no complaints, usability, lots. A grip would have changed little imho


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## justaCanonuser (Apr 17, 2020)

Mark3794 said:


> Eos M7 and 7D mark III dual announcement like the M6/90D.
> 
> I said it.


I fear we'll never see any 7D Mk III... sigh.


----------



## justaCanonuser (Apr 17, 2020)

SV said:


> EOS M-007 [corrected it for you  ]


here is the original M-007 :


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## BillB (Apr 17, 2020)

Whowe said:


> I am ready to switch to mirrorless, but there is not a good option right now. On the DSLR side, the 90D did not get the same autofocus that the 7Dii has. The R doesn't have the frame rate needed for sports/ wildlife, and the M6 doesn't have a built in viewfinder or ruggedness.



I seem to remember a patent for an EF-M 100-400, but my memory isn’t what it used to be. Beyond 400, maybe EF and an adapter would be the answer.


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## slclick (Apr 17, 2020)

justaCanonuser said:


> here is the original M-007 :
> View attachment 189875


Somewhere there's a shot of Elizabeth from 'The Americans' looking sexy and shooting with that....


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## koenkooi (Apr 18, 2020)

caffetin said:


> just to ask,did you use the mp-e 65 with m6-ii.



I have:

__
https://flic.kr/p/2iNMZ6k


----------



## Traveler (Apr 18, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


Is there any sign that the IBIS is gonna be just a software thing (stitching multiple images into one “long exposure”) instead of physically moving sensor?
As Tony suggested


----------



## caffetin (Apr 18, 2020)

Is there someone using m6 ii with mp-e 65,and how it's performing?


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## caffetin (Apr 18, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> I have:
> 
> __
> https://flic.kr/p/2iNMZ6k


And do you recommend it.


----------



## koenkooi (Apr 18, 2020)

caffetin said:


> And do you recommend it.



I miss a proper articulating screen, but it gets the job done. And you can't beat the number of pixels on target, even if diffraction will start around f/5.6 already.


----------



## deanmejos (Apr 18, 2020)

going back to IBIS on an M camera...what if this is gonna be a video-centric camera? like Fuji's X-H1? same specs as the M6 II, bigger body (no EVF) for ergonomics? would that have a place in the M lineup?


----------



## picperfect (Apr 18, 2020)

deanmejos said:


> going back to IBIS on an M camera...what if this is gonna be a video-centric camera? like Fuji's X-H1? same specs as the M6 II, bigger body (no EVF) for ergonomics? would that have a place in the M lineup?



yikes, absolute worst case scenario! 

In reality, (serious) hybrid and video users are a fairly small minority [probably less than 1/3 of market], no matter how loud the clamor for ever more video features in every single new camera. 

I'd be interested in some great "pure stills" camera models. No video recording at all. Only internal feed for EVF. No mics, no speakers, no headphone jack, no audio amps, no extra sensor cooling, no 4k, no 8k, no video clutter in menus, no video codecs with license costs, no audio codecs. 

Instead: lower price and/or better wheathersealing, dual SD UHS-II slots and 100% "stills-optimized".


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## Kit. (Apr 18, 2020)

slclick said:


> It's not too late to rename the M series to match the XD nomenclature. Just add an X to the M.


Would attract unwanted attention of 3M lawyers.


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## slclick (Apr 18, 2020)

Kit. said:


> Would attract unwanted attention of 3M lawyers.


I think they have their hands full


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## David Hull (Apr 18, 2020)

lglass12189 said:


> IBIS would be nice but I hope they give it a permanent EVF instead of the "Strap-on" EVF the M6 MK II has.


I agree that thing is really stupid. When I saw the M6, and reports arrived that it was the new flagship, i sold my M5 system in its entirety and invested the money in more RF gear. The M6 is a complete joke IMO. What good is a mirrorless camera w/o an EVF. If I want a point and shoot, ill use my phone.


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## Czardoom (Apr 18, 2020)

David Hull said:


> I agree that thing is really stupid. When I saw the M6, and reports arrived that it was the new flagship, i sold my M5 system in its entirety and invested the money in more RF gear. The M6 is a complete joke IMO. What good is a mirrorless camera w/o an EVF. If I want a point and shoot, ill use my phone.



I would say the joke is on those who don't get that it has an EVF - or doesn't. More versatility to please more consumers. And only rumor sites said it was the new flagship. Good idea to rely on that information.


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## vxcalais (Apr 18, 2020)

mcfrlnd said:


> RP body or similar would be great for the higher end model. The point and shoot sizes of the current crop of M bodies is just too small...and get a bigger battery in those things!!


 Then why not just get the RP ? The reason I moved away from Sony aps-c is the massive price hike when they put IBIS into A6600. Canon will price the M bodies even higher, just like Sony has and then wonder why they are losing out to the beginner/enthusiast market. Size is what sells EOS-M, especially for vloggers by the time they strap on all the gear, mics etc.


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## vxcalais (Apr 18, 2020)

Czardoom said:


> I would say the joke is on those who don't get that it has an EVF - or doesn't. More versatility to please more consumers. And only rumor sites said it was the new flagship. Good idea to rely on that information.



Exactly. The M6ii without Evf competes with the Fujix100F(has evf) and Ricoh for size, IQ no issue. Size is also perfect for vloggers who often dont use an EVF. The detachable EVF is simple to clip on and off anyway as an option. The touch screen is just magic with a quality that other brands cant even get near to it. It flips and perfect for using as a touch/joy pad to move focus points. Canons FV mode is also hard to beat. If I want to stare down a viewfinder all day, I find the ones in my vintage cameras better and more enjoyable anyway(because i have to).


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## slclick (Apr 18, 2020)

vxcalais said:


> Exactly. The M6ii without Evf competes with the Fujix100F(has evf) and Ricoh for size, IQ no issue. Size is also perfect for vloggers who often dont use an EVF. The detachable EVF is simple to clip on and off anyway as an option. The touch screen is just magic with a quality that other brands cant even get near to it. It flips and perfect for using as a touch/joy pad to move focus points. Canons FV mode is also hard to beat. If I want to stare down a viewfinder all day, I find the ones in my vintage cameras better and more enjoyable anyway(because i have to).


(I'd get an X100V over an M6ll in a heartbeat.) And I'm still waiting on that ricockulous poster to say how the EOS R is a worse camera than the M6ll with actual real world proof. One of the silliest things I have read here in a long time and you guys say some wild stuff.


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## vxcalais (Apr 19, 2020)

slclick said:


> (I'd get an X100V over an M6ll in a heartbeat.) And I'm still waiting on that ricockulous poster to say how the EOS R is a worse camera than the M6ll with actual real world proof. One of the silliest things I have read here in a long time and you guys say some wild stuff.



x100V wasnt available when the M6ii came out. I know because I was on the verge of getting the x100f until the m6ii was released. And if i had my time again, i would still go the m6ii due to my own needs of having the better flexibility with video and using vintage manual lenses.


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## slclick (Apr 19, 2020)

vxcalais said:


> x100V wasnt available when the M6ii came out. I know because I was on the verge of getting the x100f until the m6ii was released. And if i had my time again, i would still go the m6ii due to my own needs of having the better flexibility with video and using vintage manual lenses.


I'd NEVER consider a fixed lens camera to replace anything (except another fixed lens), just for fun and a different perspective. I like having various different tools at my disposal, not every camera is meant to or purchased to give the ultimate in image quality, some is about the history of photography, the flaws (light leaks) the enjoyment. It's why I shoot Canon FF and also why I shoot 120 Holga


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## Pape (Apr 19, 2020)

Traveler said:


> Is there any sign that the IBIS is gonna be just a software thing (stitching multiple images into one “long exposure”) instead of physically moving sensor?
> As Tony suggested


That is better than actual ibis , I dont know if sensor tech yet ready for that ?


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## tpatana (Apr 19, 2020)

Not interest for me, my shooting I rarely use IS anyway.


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## Traveler (Apr 19, 2020)

Pape said:


> That is better than actual ibis , I dont know if sensor tech yet ready for that ?


I don’t think there’s a new sensor tech needed for that. You just take a bunch of pictures (short shutter speed) and stitch them together. You can already do that in photoshop. And that’s the way smartphones do night-mode photography.


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## picperfect (Apr 19, 2020)

Czardoom said:


> I would say the joke is on those who don't get that it has an EVF - or doesn't. More versatility to please more consumers. And only rumor sites said it was the new flagship. Good idea to rely on that information.



nope. only joke is Canon not releasing an M5 II - or even better an EOS M7 - along with M6 II. That would have given customers full choice from 3 alternatives at 3 pricepoints, plus all sorts of kit bundles in addition: 
* M6 II without EVF 
* M6 with extrenal, hot-shoe blocking EVF 
* M5 II or M7 with properly integrated EVF 

Canon's refusal to do a "worthy" EOS M5 II or even better "EOS M7" is root of the problem. Exactly the same mistake as Sony's unwillingness (or inability?) to launch a "true killer A7000 flagship" APS-C camera. Both companies equally stubborn and stupid on that one. 

Fuji would not have sold half of their X-T4 and X-T3's. But, no.


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## vxcalais (Apr 19, 2020)

picperfect said:


> Canon's refusal to do a "worthy" EOS M5 II or even better "EOS M7" is root of the problem. Exactly the same mistake as Sony's unwillingness (or inability?) to launch a "true killer A7000 flagship" APS-C camera. Both companies equally stubborn and stupid on that one.



I haven't had EOS M long enough to know about what long time users expect, but since using Sony Aps-c NEXF3 to A6000 there is not much price difference anymore between the top of the range A6600 and the Sony A7iii both with lenses. An A7000 would put it right up there cost wise near the earlier but still amazing A7 series which has nearly become a 1 lens system with the Sony and Sigma 24-70. 

But I think the M6ii is definately a stepping stone, and with the rumor of 2 new cams and some lenses that should be great news for the future of the system right ???


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## Pape (Apr 19, 2020)

Traveler said:


> I don’t think there’s a new sensor tech needed for that. You just take a bunch of pictures (short shutter speed) and stitch them together. You can already do that in photoshop. And that’s the way smartphones do night-mode photography.


yep would work with longer shutter speeds nicely .but with ibis or is on shorter. with 30 picture combination youll get just 5 stop improvement.
Some day when camera can take thousends 1/1000 pictures and combine them,we dont need ibis or Is anymore 
There is lot of patents without IS so i think ibis must be real ibis.
Or hmm i guess it depends how short can be break between two shot ,if there is just 1/1000 break between two shot ,it could work with 1/100 sec shutter speeds and longer ,so like with 50mm lense ,could computing stabilation work with handhold.
And sorry i know i prolly count wrong i am not good on math


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## David Hull (Apr 19, 2020)

Czardoom said:


> I would say the joke is on those who don't get that it has an EVF - or doesn't. More versatility to please more consumers. And only rumor sites said it was the new flagship. Good idea to rely on that information.


As far as I am concerned the M6 *doesn't* have an EVF since quite a bit fo the time, I used my M5 with an attached 430EX-RT flash. With the M6 approach, you can have a flash or an EVF but not both. This is a non-starter for me and really convinced me to move off that system. That said, the M series is an excellent travel camera but the R not that much bigger and it is actually a bit more comfortable in the hand (IMO).


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## pj1974 (Apr 20, 2020)

David Hull said:


> As far as I am concerned the M6 *doesn't* have an EVF since quite a bit fo the time, I used my M5 with an attached 430EX-RT flash. With the M6 approach, you can have a flash or an EVF but not both. This is a non-starter for me and really convinced me to move off that system. That said, the M series is an excellent travel camera but the R not that much bigger and it is actually a bit more comfortable in the hand (IMO).



I really appreciate the versatility and usability that a system gives, which has both an EVF AND a backscreen. Not just for flash photography, but in general. The reduction in size that a mirrorless without an EVF can be handy in times. But as a package the M5 (or M50) with a small lens (i.e. almost every EF-M) fits the bill for me. 

I have used the R and RP (both of these cameras with RF as well as EF lenses with adapter). As a system, they are considerably larger than the M5 / M50 with lenses. I like the size of my 80D (that's about perfect for my hands) matched with medium to large glass. But there is also place for the EOS-M / EF-M mount system. That's usually where I want something small, light and convenient, and the M5 really works for me.

When I do 'serious' photography, 95% of the time it's with a DSLR - be that landscape, macro, wildlife, event photography, architecture and/or other genres. Having written that, I look forward to the R5, as that is a FF mirrorless camera I am seriously considering to buy sometime in the future. From the information so far, a R5 would work very well with my lenses (including the EF L glass I currently own). And then, in time I would plan to also acquire RF glass, to fit any gaps or upgrade as I see fit.

I own 1 x 600EX-RT, and 3 x 430EXIII-RT flashes, as well as a Yongnuo radio trigger and some other flash accessories. Naturally these all work great on my DSLR cameras. However, a few weeks ago I bought a second hand Speedlite 270EX II, which works just great on my M5... a small, light versatile package. This is one reason I am also looking to keep an eye out for any new M models.

IBIS would open up new creative possibilities - particularly with the lenses that are not stabilised yet, e.g. the primes. Looking forward to it, Canon!


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## Pape (Apr 20, 2020)

Traveler said:


> I don’t think there’s a new sensor tech needed for that. You just take a bunch of pictures (short shutter speed) and stitch them together. You can already do that in photoshop. And that’s the way smartphones do night-mode photography.


Ok i guess its possible . R5 may have 5 stop stacking ibis ,but they forgot mention little thing , It only works with wide angle 
Longer than that up to 50mm youll need IS to help it.
50 shoot inside second sounds plausible with big tech leap. or how long lense you can use with 1/50 s shutter speed without stabilisation on 45mpixel full frame?
20fps would be too sour fruit ,only usable with fish eye.


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## Bob Howland (Apr 20, 2020)

pj1974 said:


> I own 1 x 600EX-RT, and 3 x 430EXIII-RT flashes, as well as a Yongnuo radio trigger and some other flash accessories. Naturally these all work great on my DSLR cameras. However, a few weeks ago I bought a second hand Speedlite 270EX II, which works just great on my M5... a small, light versatile package. This is one reason I am also looking to keep an eye out for any new M models.
> 
> IBIS would open up new creative possibilities - particularly with the lenses that are not stabilised yet, e.g. the primes. Looking forward to it, Canon!


An M5, 18-150 and 270EX is a match made in heaven. The Sigma primes give excellent results, especially in low light, but they're not zoom lenses.


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## koenkooi (Apr 20, 2020)

Bob Howland said:


> An M5, 18-150 and 270EX is a match made in heaven. The Sigma primes give excellent results, especially in low light, but they're not zoom lenses.



If you like the 270EX, have a look at the EL-100, it's slightly bigger, but has a head that can flash backwards and sideways. Another option is the Godox *350C, that one is much bigger than the EL-100, but half the price.

I added a black piece of tape as a rim about the bottom of my 270EX, that keeps it from throwing harsh light towards the subject when flipped up towards the ceiling. Don't use blue painters tape, the flash is powerful enough to turn it into a blue effect light


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## pj1974 (Apr 20, 2020)

Bob Howland said:


> An M5, 18-150 and 270EX is a match made in heaven. The Sigma primes give excellent results, especially in low light, but they're not zoom lenses.



Yes, I agree.. I have the M5, EF-M 18-150 (love that lens for it's versatility) and now the 270EXII.
I have used Sigma lenses (primes and zooms) on my DSLRs (and with an adapter on my M5), but yet to use a "EF-M" mount Sigma prime.
I love my EF-M 22mm Canon f/2, and my Samyang 12mm f/2, both great in low light.
I might add the Canon 35mm at a later stage- but that's not a focal length I use as much.

That's why I would love IBIS in a new EOS M camera... it it would add new possibilities to existing lenses, especially my primes.


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## pj1974 (Apr 20, 2020)

Bob Howland said:


> An M5, 18-150 and 270EX is a match made in heaven. The Sigma primes give excellent results, especially in low light, but they're not zoom lenses.






koenkooi said:


> If you like the 270EX, have a look at the EL-100, it's slightly bigger, but has a head that can flash backwards and sideways. Another option is the Godox *350C, that one is much bigger than the EL-100, but half the price.
> 
> I added a black piece of tape as a rim about the bottom of my 270EX, that keeps it from throwing harsh light towards the subject when flipped up towards the ceiling. Don't use blue painters tape, the flash is powerful enough to turn it into a blue effect light



Yes, the EL-100 is a great flash too.. a bit more versatile than the 270EX II.. but yes, it's slightly larger. The reason I got the 270EXII is that it was going for a great price (2nd hand, about 1/6th new price), So I really wanted the smallest flash possible (generally I bounce from ceiling if required on my EOS M5 camera). If I do require more 'bouncing' angles, then I can use my Speedlite 430EXIII-RT which while bigger again, is both more powerful and more versatile again. 

However whenever I do 'really serious' flash work, then I bring out my DSLRs (often with multiple flashes on stands, etc).  That's why I just wanted something small (and cheap)- and the 270EXII does a great job from initial testing. The built in flash on the M5 is useful in a pinch (where required) - but it's very low powered and obviously can't be used for bounce flash on the ceiling. That's where the 270EX was what I was looking for.

Thanks for the tip about the black piece of tape as a rim at the bottom of the 270EX.. I'll keep that in mind in case If ind my 270EXII produces unwanted harsh light on my subject. Yes, I know one definitely doesn't want to use colour tape with flashes for such a purpose!  Cheers!


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## Dragon (Apr 20, 2020)

So now Canon says the R5 IBIS works cooperatively with IS In EF lenses, so no reason for an M camera with IBIS not to do the same.


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## picperfect (Apr 20, 2020)

Dragon said:


> So now Canon says the R5 IBIS works cooperatively with IS In EF lenses, so no reason for an M camera with IBIS not to do the same.



RF mount offers much more bandwidth/faster data communication between lens and Camera than EF. Not sure about EF-M capabilities, whether closer to EF or to RF in that regard. It might be a bottleneck in getting IS and IBIS work well-coordinated in tandem. But also hoping for the best.


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## koketso (Apr 20, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> First - releasing an M50 II without an IBIS is a suicide, especially in a situation, when Canon users are going to be warmed up to the IBIS by R5/R6 releases. Second - give me the M6 III with IBIS and pop-up viewfinder, please


How quickly we forget the obvious massive price difference between a M50 MkII and EOS R5/R6


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## koketso (Apr 20, 2020)

Philrp said:


> EOS-M7 with ran RF mount.... come on Canon!
> 
> I could understand them wanting to keep the APS-C sensor under the M label, but the RF mount is a must.


Not happening. We've said countless number of times both here and elsewhere on the internet that RF mount is designed for a Full Frame sensor, not a "whatever-size" sensor like EF was. Could Canon still do it? - Yes. Will they? - highly, HIGHLY unlikely because they would need to start from scratch with RF APS-C lenses.


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## koketso (Apr 20, 2020)

I remember saying there's no way Canon would leave us M5 owners without an upgrade (EVF, all dials, IBIS). It didn't matter what the Canon rep said at the M6 Mk2 launch - there's just no way Canon would leave us out. I was actually expecting an M7 to come before the R5 and introduce Canon's 5-axis IBIS.


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## Michael Clark (Apr 20, 2020)

picperfect said:


> Exactly. Big crop sensor / EOS M bodies make no sense.
> 
> 7D II successors for those who mainly use long tele lenses (birding, wildlife) will be FF-sensor EOS R models. Resolution and speed are/will be fine, crop mode can be used for extra reach. Price will be somewhat higher than 7D II, but those who buy white Canon L tele lenses can typically afford it.
> 
> that's how i read Canon product strategy.



There were a LOT of 7D Mark II buyers who chose it to use with a 70-200mm f/2.8 _precisely_ because a lens like the EF 300mm f/2.8 L IS II was too expensive to pay for itself shooting youth/high school sports. The birders and Big White owners on this forum do not, IMHO, represent the typical 7D Mark II buyer.

7D Mark II + EF 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS II: $1700 + $2100 = $3800 
1D X Mark II + EF 300mm f/2.8 L IS II: $5500 + 6100 = $11600


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## Michael Clark (Apr 20, 2020)

picperfect said:


> Also, "1k" is totally unrealistic. 6D II is USD 850 MSRP - without any viewfinder = unfit for "typical 7D" usage scenario. Kit with EVF (and 15-45) is USD 1100 already. An M7 with IBIS, duals SD UHS-II slots, weathersealing and built-in EVF will be quite a bit higher.



Did you mean M6 Mark II instead of 6D Mark II?


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## picperfect (Apr 21, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> There were a LOT of 7D Mark II buyers who chose it to use with a 70-200mm f/2.8 _precisely_ because a lens like the EF 300mm f/2.8 L IS II was too expensive to pay for itself shooting youth/high school sports. The birders and Big White owners on this forum do not, IMHO, represent the typical 7D Mark II buyer.
> 
> 7D Mark II + EF 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS II: $1700 + $2100 = $3800
> 1D X Mark II + EF 300mm f/2.8 L IS II: $5500 + 6100 = $11600



no more issue ever since EF 100-400 II was launched. EOS RP + 100-400 II = less than 7D II + 70-200/2.8 III. Or take a Tamron/Sigma 150-600. Or a simple 1.4x Teleconverter. Enough affordable options today.


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## picperfect (Apr 21, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Did you mean M6 Mark II instead of 6D Mark II?



yes.


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## Michael Clark (Apr 21, 2020)

RichardS said:


> Nothing like a good rumour. One possibility for this new EOS Mx. that I cannot see anybody has speculated on is that instead of having an adaptor for EF lenses what if it was to have an adaptor for the R lenses. This would meet several objectives. Maintain the smaller size. Allow Canon to concentrate on R series lenses while having a smaller portfolio of EF-M The key to the M range is camera size. This competes with the MFT suppliers but provide APSC sensor which should be better. The concept has to be a winner. I am in the market to downsize but I do want good quality images and kit that allows me to do nature, aircraft, landscape and hopefulky macro. The Mx could be just what I am waiting for. We shall see.



It's physically impossible. 

The registration distance of the RF mount is 20mm. 
The registration distance of the M mount is 18mm. 
So far, so good. 

But the RF mount has a larger throat diameter than the EF-M mount, and the bayonet lugs on the RF lenses extend more than 2mm behind the flange. So it would be impossible to get an RF lens close enough to the sensor in an EF-M camera to focus to infinity. The lugs that fit inside the throat of the RF mount would hit the EF-M mount ring on the camera first.


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## Dragon (Apr 21, 2020)

picperfect said:


> RF mount offers much more bandwidth/faster data communication between lens and Camera than EF. Not sure about EF-M capabilities, whether closer to EF or to RF in that regard. It might be a bottleneck in getting IS and IBIS work well-coordinated in tandem. But also hoping for the best.


Please go back and read what I said. "The R5 will support IBIS cooperation with EF (again EF) lenses" EF lenses on an R camera have no more bandwidth than they do on and EF body or an M body. My original comment holds.


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## picperfect (Apr 21, 2020)

but camera side EOS M with EF-M mount may not have the throughput needed.

there are 3 different mount pairs
1. EOS R body <> RF lens
2. EOS R body <> EF lens
3. EOS M body (EF-M mount) <> EF-M lens

until proven otherwise i would not assume that combo 3 allows for the same set of IS/IBIS cooperation as combo 1 or even 2.


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## Michael Clark (Apr 21, 2020)

picperfect said:


> no more issue ever since EF 100-400 II was launched. EOS RP + 100-400 II = less than 7D II + 70-200/2.8 III. Or take a Tamron/Sigma 150-600. Or a simple 1.4x Teleconverter. Enough affordable options today.



None of those affordable options include f/2.8.

100-400 doesn't open up to f/2.8 for youth/high school sports under lights at night or inside gyms. The 100-400 is useless for that role.Ditto with the SLOW 150-600mm lenses. To shoot at f/6.3 instead of f/2.8 and maintain 1/1000 second, you'd need to use whatever ISO 12800 plus one-third stop is instead of ISO 3200.


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## picperfect (Apr 21, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> None of those affordable options include f/2.8.
> 
> 100-400 doesn't open up to f/2.8 for youth/high school sports under lights at night or inside gyms. The 100-400 is useless for that role.Ditto with the SLOW 150-600mm lenses. To shoot at f/6.3 instead of f/2.8 and maintain 1/1000 second, you'd need to use whatever ISO 12800 plus one-third stop is instead of ISO 3200.



so what. and indoor you don't need a 150-600. not even on FF. 

but whatever, i still believe there will be neither a 7D III nor any crop sensor EOS R body either. 

An EOS M7 is likely, pretty much on par with fuji x-t4, in specs and price - around 1500. hopefully in the smallest possible form factor.


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## jolyonralph (Apr 21, 2020)

Del Paso said:


> Well, I didn't mean the EOS M was not acceptable, what I actually meant was the I hated cameras getting smaller and smaller.
> Hands don't !



I think my hands are perfectly average, but I have no problem adapting to smaller cameras when smaller lenses are used. The issue isn't the size of the camera so much as the ergonomics and the placement of the controls. You also have to factor in some considerable time to getting used to change if you've been used to a DSLR for a decade or more. 

The combination of a smaller M body and lightweight M lenses works really well. It's not so great when using heavier adapted EF lenses, but I've found some combinations (eg EOS M3 with EF 100mm f/2.8L IS) to work really nicely for some reason.

I like the size and ergonomics of the R body and I think the R5 is likely to be a good refinement of this. But I also like smaller and lighter cameras (which is why I'm keeping my Sony A7RII) in certain cases. And an APS-C camera for general photography works better in a smaller body than a larger one. Specialist cases such as birding and sports may have different requirements - but the R5 and the future R5s are likely to cover most bases for that niche.


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## RichardS (Apr 21, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> It's physically impossible.
> 
> The registration distance of the RF mount is 20mm.
> The registration distance of the M mount is 18mm.
> ...



Well it was just a thought.


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## Michael Clark (Apr 21, 2020)

picperfect said:


> so what. and indoor you don't need a 150-600. not even on FF.
> 
> but whatever, i still believe there will be neither a 7D III nor any crop sensor EOS R body either.
> 
> An EOS M7 is likely, pretty much on par with fuji x-t4, in specs and price - around 1500. hopefully in the smallest possible form factor.



I'm not disagreeing with you regarding whether there will ever be another 7D type body, either in the EF, RF, or EF-M mount.

I'm disagreeing with you that the R5 and a _*SLOW*_ telephoto lens can do the same job as a 7D Mark II and a 70-200/2.8 shooting youth/high school sports, which is where I've seen the vast majority of the 7D bodies I've come across out in the wild.

As far as the price threshold is concerned, the R5 body alone will probably cost about as much as the 7D Mark II (at list) + EF 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS II combined did.

It's true that indoors one does not need a 150-600, nor is an f/6.3 lens usable for indoor sports, but _*you are the one *_who suggested a _slow_ 100-400 or _slow_ 150-600 would be suitable lenses with an R5 to tackle the same role as a 7D Mark II + 70-200/2.8 as a budget conscious youth/high school sports package.

Not to mention that an EOS RP can not do AI Servo AF tracking at remotely anything approaching 10 fps, and the EVF lags way too much for shooting sports/action. So it's not a suitable substitute, either. As far as camera performance goes, the M6 Mark II checks most of the boxes, but with an external shoe mounted eye level viewfinder, it wouldn't last very long on the sideline of football games.


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## picperfect (Apr 21, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> It's true that indoors one does not need a 150-600, nor is an f/6.3 lens usable for indoor sports, but _*you are the one *_who suggested a _slow_ 100-400 or _slow_ 150-600 would be suitable lenses with an R5 to tackle the same role as a 7D Mark II + 70-200/2.8 as a budget conscious youth/high school sports package.



nope. you brought the reference to indoor sports. I was thinking more of budget-limited birders/wildlife/zoo shooters, who often have/had a 7D series camera. 



Michael Clark said:


> As far as camera performance goes, the M6 Mark II checks most of the boxes, but with an external shoe mounted eye level viewfinder, it wouldn't last very long on the sideline of football games.



totally agree here. External hot-shoe hugging EVF would likely break off within first week of my regular use - unfortunately i do run into protruding edges and things, hurting myself and or my gear. ;-)


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## Michael Clark (Apr 21, 2020)

picperfect said:


> nope. you brought the reference to indoor sports. I was thinking more of budget-limited birders/wildlife/zoo shooters, who often have/had a 7D series camera.



I'd already brought up youth/high school sports, a high percentage of which are played indoors or under lights at night, when you suggested the 100-400 and RP (LOLOLOLOLOL) as a suitable replacement for a 7D Mark II + 70-200/2.8. Birders and wildlife shooters also need AI Servo AF at frame rates significantly greater than the RP can deliver.


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## SteveC (Apr 21, 2020)

picperfect said:


> nope. you brought the reference to indoor sports. I was thinking more of budget-limited birders/wildlife/zoo shooters, who often have/had a 7D series camera.
> 
> 
> 
> totally agree here. External hot-shoe hugging EVF would likely break off within first week of my regular use - unfortunately i do run into protruding edges and things, hurting myself and or my gear. ;-)




Not a camera you'd lend to Jacques Clouseau.


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