# 6D vs 5D3 vs 5D2 for indoor rental



## DeadPixel (Aug 10, 2013)

Hi all,

A few weekends ago I was at a good friends wedding and took my T3i with EF-S 15-85 and EF 100 2.8L along to play with. I was not the photographer for the event, I was just playing around from my seat to see what the camera did indoors with low light. 

The venue was dimly lit, think the old church hall you used to go to when you were younger and not wanting to create a bunch of distracting flashes, I kept flash off. As you can imagine, ISO went through the roof to get a decent amount of light and generally I've found anything over ISO 400 produces a level of noise I'm displeased with unedited.

In a few weeks I have another wedding to attend (again as a guest) and was considering renting a 6D, 5D3 or 5D2 for this one to play around with a full frame camera under low light. I've been considering a FF camera for a while and have been curious to see if I fall in love with it. I do not do photography for any income, just personal enjoyment. I usually take pictures of landscapes or just lug it around for whatever shots our group is doing that day. From the articles I've read, theres not a huge difference in ISO performance between the 6D and 5D3 - and based on some articles not a big difference between the 5D3 and 5D2, thought I've seen plenty of users here say the 5D3 was better. http://www.dpreview.com/forums/post/41139976

So my question is which of the 3 would you recommend I rent? From your experience, how high can you go with ISO on these before some post processing is necessary?

Also paired with that, which lens would you recommend? The 100mm was way too long for this small venue (I realize the crop factor also comes into play with eh APS-C) and I was thinking of the 24-70 F/2.8L I or II?

Thanks!
DeadPixel


----------



## ForumMuppet (Aug 10, 2013)

If it were me I would rent the 5DIII along with the 24-70 II. This is a great combination. I will say that you need to make sure you have about $5000 left over after the wedding gift and rental because you are going to want to buy them when you are done. At least that is what happened to me. 

With the 5DIII you can go up to about 6400 ISO before you need to touch the noise reduction tools if you are shooting RAW. If you go into the 8000+ range you will need to do a little tweaking but not much. It's truly an amazing camera!


----------



## timmy_650 (Aug 10, 2013)

I would rent the 6D bc that is the camera that sounds like fits you the best. Dont get me wrong the 5D3 is a better camera but it costs a bit more money. I would guess the 6D is more your budget or where you would like to be. So if you don't like the 6D you will know you have to try the 5D3 but if you are happy with the 6D then you got something to save for.


----------



## sdsr (Aug 10, 2013)

Whether there's a "huge" difference depends on your standards, your eyesight, what you've photographed, how your looking at the photos (what size monitor, what size prints, etc.). The difference between a T3i and a 5DII (I owned them simultaneously for a while) in low light is significant and quite obvious (as it is between a better APS-C camera such as the Pentax K-5, which I owned before the 5DII, and a 5DII). The differences among 5DII, 5DIII and 6D are smaller, but still, despite that odd post you linked to at dpreview, noticeable and, to my eyes, significant - so much so that after renting a 6D and 5DIII I quickly bought a 6D and recently replaced my 5DII with a 5DIII. Partly it's a matter of noise, but not only that - I find that in low light the colours from the 5DIII and 6D are more accurate than those from the 5DII. As for which one to rent, you might as well go for the 5DIII with its superlative AF system (the 6Ds may be good enough, though, depending on what you shoot; both are better than the 5DII for AF).

At what point the need to apply noise reduction kicks in depends on what you've photographed, how you're going to end up viewing it, and your taste (e.g. I would rather keep some noise to avoid losing significant detail); I recently took some photos outdoors at night, hand held, with my 5DIII and with ISOs going above 8000 and didn't feel any particular need to add any noise reduction in LR. You might have concluded otherwise.

I'm sure the 2.8 zooms you mention would be just fine (I've used neither; in that range I would rather use a prime or two); but you might also be pleasantly surprised just how good the kit lens (24-105L) is in low light on any of these FF cameras, especially since it has the advantage of IS which, depending on your subject, may be more useful in low light than 2.8 (or, if 70mm is long enough, rent the stabilized Tamron 24-70 instead).


----------



## Gareth (Aug 10, 2013)

I went from a 60D to a 5D III and while the 5D III autofocus is much better, it's really confusing at first (and I'm still figuring it out). So, on that alone, you might be more comfortable with a 6D as its autofocus will be familiar to you. And, isn't the center point of the 6D able to focus in slightly lower light than the 5D III? Probably won't matter at the venue itself, but maybe at the reception.

At the weddings I've been to (just as a guest), I've shot almost entirely on my 70-200mm 2.8 IS II. Perhaps I just prefer tighter shots than wides. Just this week though, I shot my sister's wedding on my Tamron 24-70 2.8 VC because it was a tight outdoor space and I was in the front row, but looking back I still took almost all my photos at 70mm, and wished I had a bit more reach, with some around 50mm and a few around 24mm. 24-105 or 28-135 might have served me well, but I don't have those lenses.


----------



## sagittariansrock (Aug 11, 2013)

timmy_650 said:


> I would rent the 6D bc that is the camera that sounds like fits you the best. Dont get me wrong the 5D3 is a better camera but it costs a bit more money. I would guess the 6D is more your budget or where you would like to be. So if you don't like the 6D you will know you have to try the 5D3 but if you are happy with the 6D then you got something to save for.



+1
From a purely strategic standpoint, I'd think you should rent the camera and lens you are most likely to buy. If you know you can afford the 5DIII+24-70II, then by all means why even bother with the 6D or 5DII?


----------



## PureShot (Aug 11, 2013)

The 6D have a better iso performance than the 5D mkiii 
i worked with the 7D in the last 3 years, i bought 6D vs 5D Mkiii when i read Dustin Abbott blog (thank Dustin)
the 6D is a amazing professional camera, wifi, great focus speed, focus in low light, iso performance similar to 1dx, more battery life, camera pound, 
i make test in my studio and 1/160, pass test with fan and model with long hair 
The 6D is the best camera i ever try for portrait


----------



## drob (Aug 11, 2013)

Imagine you're the paid wedding photographer at a wedding and in comes Mr. New-bie with his fancy big camera and long lenses, snappin pics up and down, getting in your way and looking over your shoulder, firing his onboard flash from 50 feet away....annoying, right? I think you have to respect the wedding couple and the hired professional and leave all your gear at home. You are a WEDDING GUEST. Remember, the couple is paying someone else to shoot their event, not you. Making the photographer uncomfortable makes him or her less effective. The wedding isn't about "which camera is better for ME", it's about THE COUPLE. If you are still inclined to rent gear and bring all your long lenses along, you still need to show respect and ask the couple if that is okay, as well as, the actual paid photographer. 

I don't intend to be rude in anyway, just trying to be up front. There are numerous articles and forums about this very topic. It sounds like you are interested in wedding photograpy which is great, then maybe you need to pursue becoming a second shooter to the paid professional. 

one of many:
http://www.jennadavisblog.com/weddings/wedding-guest-photo-etiquette/


by the way, I'm renting a 6D now and have found that it rocks in low light. Definitely an upgrade from my 60D. I think full frame is the way to go for increased ISO but I'm torn becaue I have 3 lenses that won't work with FF. Hoping the IQ/low light performance is comparable with the new 70D. Have to wait and see and dream...
Attached pic is from Canon 6D , ISO 1600, 34 secs, f/2 with the Tokina 16mm f/2 (made for a crop sensor)


----------



## Valvebounce (Aug 11, 2013)

I thought DeadPixel sounded like he was being quite respectful of the Happy Couple and the pro photog as he states from his seat no flash. He would appear to be very mindful of not becoming an uncle bob.
I do not get camera gear out during a ceremony unless/until the pro invites pictures of the signing of the register. 
I do however take pics during the formal picture session but well away from the formals, I catch the relatives goofing off on the sidelines and have had the happy couple comment that there were none of these from the pro. However none of the couples have had a pro second shooter and I guess that would be their responsibility? 
Based on this experience I think it is important for guests to take some gear.
Also DeadPixel is asking his gear talk questions here not distracting the Pro at the wedding with them!
I think it would be in order to cut him a little slack. 



drob said:


> Imagine you're the paid wedding photographer at a wedding and in comes Mr. New-bie with his fancy big camera and long lenses, snappin pics up and down, getting in your way and looking over your shoulder, firing his onboard flash from 50 feet away....annoying, right? I think you have to respect the wedding couple and the hired professional and leave all your gear at home. You are a WEDDING GUEST. Remember, the couple is paying someone else to shoot their event, not you. Making the photographer uncomfortable makes him or her less effective. The wedding isn't about "which camera is better for ME", it's about THE COUPLE. If you are still inclined to rent gear and bring all your long lenses along, you still need to show respect and ask the couple if that is okay, as well as, the actual paid photographer.
> 
> I don't intend to be rude in anyway, just trying to be up front. There are numerous articles and forums about this very topic. It sounds like you are interested in wedding photograpy which is great, then maybe you need to pursue becoming a second shooter to the paid professional.
> 
> ...


----------



## drob (Aug 11, 2013)

Valvebounce said:


> I thought DeadPixel sounded like he was being quite respectful of the Happy Couple and the pro photog as he states from his seat no flash. He would appear to be very mindful of not becoming an uncle bob.
> I do not get camera gear out during a ceremony unless/until the pro invites pictures of the signing of the register.
> I do however take pics during the formal picture session but well away from the formals, I catch the relatives goofing off on the sidelines and have had the happy couple comment that there were none of these from the pro. However none of the couples have had a pro second shooter and I guess that would be their responsibility?
> Based on this experience I think it is important for guests to take some gear.
> ...




Didn't want to come off as a prick but I guess I did...just saying that the someone's wedding shouldn't be used for one's photography experiments...especially if it can be distracting or intrusive to the paid photographer. The couple and photographer meet and discuss expectations/wants/needs for the day. Remember, you're a guest. You're job as the guest is to have fun and enjoy the time, not cruising around acting as the informal second shooter. And if one does decide to take gear, again, the respectful thing to do would be ask the paid professional.


----------



## DeadPixel (Aug 12, 2013)

Thanks for the feedback guys!

timmy/saggitariansrock, great point - if I were to make a purchase it'd more likely be the 6D over the 5D3 so it makes a lot of sense to try it first.

sdsr - 8000 iso w/o any reduction would be quite satisfying. I never considered the 24-105 or the stabilized 24-70 Tamron, good things for me to think about! I hadn't considered any primes just because I don't really want to move around a lot, since I'm not the photographer or trying to get in the way - that makes it harder to "zoom with my feet"  Agreed though that primes continue to amaze me!


Gareth - thanks for the note, I have an older 70-300 IS that I could bring along, I certainly wont be in the front few rows or near the head table!

PureShot - great info, I didn't know the battery life was better with a 6D!

drob - firstly, love the shot you posted, I didn't know you could go over 30 second exposures with the 6D - I always have the stars "blurring" a bit from the rotation when i go that long it seems (my T3i is limited unless I go to "bulb" setting) Your point is very very valid and I take no offense at all by you pointing it out. I enjoyed reading Jenn's blog and certainly don't want to be the much maligned "Uncle Bob"  Just to be clear I have no intention of using any flash whatsoever since it is so obnoxious (I still laugh at everyone's point and shoot or cell phone belting out flashes at the subject easily 30'+ away where their flash has no impact. Really I wouldn't plan on using the camera during the ceremony (amazing how loud a DSLR shutter is in an enclosed space) Regarding any photos taken, the intent wasn't to provide any of them to the couple, I don't want to take pictures of the party all lined up at the altar afterwards or follow/intrude on the primary photographer in any way. I selfishly did want to see what a modern full frame camera could do in a low light environment (after my T3i was so insufficient) and I was going to be attending anyway.

In light of that I did confirm with the couple that they didn't mind me bringing a larger camera and I got the photographers contact info so I can verify that it wont bother them as well.

Valvebounce - thanks for the kind words


----------



## Gareth (Aug 12, 2013)

DeadPixel said:


> Really I wouldn't plan on using the camera during the ceremony (amazing how loud a DSLR shutter is in an enclosed space)



One of the great features of the 6D/5D III is the silent shutter mode. It really is very quiet, and probably wouldn't be noticed past the few guests seated around you in each direction (if that). The first time I used it, I could barely tell when I was taking a picture!


----------



## Haydn1971 (Aug 12, 2013)

I'm bias, I've got a 6D with a 24-70 f2.8 II - If I was in your shoes, I'd look to try the 6D & 24-105mm as a baseline, pushing to a 24-70mm f2.8 II - be aware that its a lot heavier a setup than what you have used before. You don't get much reach on FF at 70mm, I personally use a 135L with a 1.4x extender sometimes, but in a fast moving wedding situation, a 70-200 f2.8 IS II could be useful, however, reach depends on what the final output is - I crop most of my stuff to a 1600 pixel long side for uploading on Flickr, but if you want to print out larger than A4, then you may want the extra pixels


----------



## scottkinfw (Aug 12, 2013)

I would second that.



ForumMuppet said:


> If it were me I would rent the 5DIII along with the 24-70 II. This is a great combination. I will say that you need to make sure you have about $5000 left over after the wedding gift and rental because you are going to want to buy them when you are done. At least that is what happened to me.
> 
> With the 5DIII you can go up to about 6400 ISO before you need to touch the noise reduction tools if you are shooting RAW. If you go into the 8000+ range you will need to do a little tweaking but not much. It's truly an amazing camera!


----------



## BoneDoc (Aug 12, 2013)

Here's my attempt at being a "3rd shooter" . This was our neighbor's daughter's wedding. They had a photographer/videographer, as well as another shooter for the ceremony. So I just run around and shoot the family to get out of the way. I made sure that I was out of everyone's way, and I stay in a place that's not occupied by either shooter.

The main advantage of the 5DIII is the ability to keep focus on faster moving targets. the 6D isn't bad, but the 5DIII is just better at it. If you do center point and recompose, the 6D has a better centerpoint AF, good to -3EV. It's got to be pretty dark before the AF starts to hunt.

the 24-70MkII is a scary good (and sharp) lens. So much so, that now I notice every single camera shake, whereas it would've been hidden by the lack of resolution from my previous setup (Nikon D5100 with 35 1.8). The Bokeh is pleasant as well. 

I'll post more pics when I get home from work tonight.

Josh

All images on 6D and 24-70 MkII




My Sister by BoneDC, on Flickr




A Peek by BoneDC, on Flickr




Graceful by BoneDC, on Flickr


----------



## tron (Aug 12, 2013)

drob said:


> Didn't want to come off as a prick but I guess I did...


Correct!


drob said:


> just saying that the someone's wedding shouldn't be used for one's photography experiments...especially if it can be distracting or intrusive to the paid photographer.


You are repeating yourself since it was mentioned twice that he will take pictures from his seat!


drob said:


> The couple and photographer meet and discuss expectations/wants/needs for the day. Remember, you're a guest. You're job as the guest is to have fun and enjoy the time, not cruising around acting as the informal second shooter.


Maybe it is also not your job to tell him what is his job!


drob said:


> And if one does decide to take gear, again, the respectful thing to do would be ask the paid professional.


Quite wrong! The respectful thing to do would be ask the *paying* couple!


----------



## awinphoto (Aug 12, 2013)

The 5d mark 2's AF is horrid... worse than your rebel in my opinion... The 6d's CENTER AF POINT is better than any of the 3 cameras, from what I can tell, but every other AF point, the 5d3 is better in... so... to rehash, if you like to focus/recompose, then the 6d would be good for you, if you like a camera that works when you want it how you want it with a kick ass AF, get the 5d3.


----------



## tron (Aug 12, 2013)

awinphoto said:


> The 5d mark 2's AF is horrid... worse than your rebel in my opinion... The 6d's CENTER AF POINT is better than any of the 3 cameras, from what I can tell, but every other AF point, the 5d3 is better in... so... to rehash, if you like to focus/recompose, then the 6d would be good for you, if you like a camera that works when you want it how you want it with a kick ass AF, get the 5d3.


+1 I am spoilt (spoiled ;D ) with 5D3's AF


----------



## Valvebounce (Aug 13, 2013)

drob said:


> Valvebounce said:
> 
> 
> > I thought DeadPixel sounded like he was being quite respectful of the Happy Couple and the pro photog as he states from his seat no flash. He would appear to be very mindful of not becoming an uncle bob.
> ...



Hi Drob
Sorry, I had no intention of implying that of you. It is not what I thought, I believe I had not thought about the wedding situation to the level you have. It would seem proper to ask the couple and the pro though I'm sure most pro's are used to cameras attending with their guests! Probably with less thought to the pro than most of us as I get the impression that most if not all on this forum try to be considerate photographers.

Cheers Graham.


----------



## awinphoto (Aug 13, 2013)

Valvebounce said:


> drob said:
> 
> 
> > Valvebounce said:
> ...



It's kinda funny, i've been in those situations... I did one wedding, shooting video and stills, and i can count in my ceremony videos how many flashes went off (During ceremonies i make all my assistants and myself shoot natural light, but we turn on flashes during receptions), and immediately after the wedding the bride griped because no one got any good photos (except us so she had to wait for us to process pictures). Those cell phone flashes are cute but quite annoying and dont do squat past 6 feet. Plus, in my contracts, I say that no other photographers/cameras are allowed to be there other than us, although we very rarely enforce it unless we get that annoying uncle bob... so if your just a guest, seek and find out who the photographer is, and check with them to see what their rules are as not to get in his/her way.


----------



## sagittariansrock (Aug 14, 2013)

tron said:


> > And if one does decide to take gear, again, the respectful thing to do would be ask the paid professional.
> 
> 
> Quite wrong! The respectful thing to do would be ask the *paying* couple!



Why, I think one should ask both the couple and the pro. For the couple, it is their show; for the pro, it is his/her workplace.


----------



## tron (Aug 14, 2013)

sagittariansrock said:


> tron said:
> 
> 
> > > And if one does decide to take gear, again, the respectful thing to do would be ask the paid professional.
> ...


The last time I checked the couple hires and pays the pro. As you said it is their show so they have the final word. Pro has a workplace only because the couple decided so...


----------



## awinphoto (Aug 14, 2013)

tron said:


> sagittariansrock said:
> 
> 
> > tron said:
> ...



As i said before, as a working pro, in my contract and in most of my competitors contracts, we stipulate that we are to be the only photographers there. We ask the wedding party to inform the guests... I dont get bothered about the guests taking cell phone pics, but I do get bothered if it interferes and or degrades the quality of my work or previewed value of my work. That being said, the wedding party would have signed the contract, they would know, to some extent, what's allowed and whats not. If all else fails, find the photographer and ask.


----------

