# Canon’s next RF mount camera is in the field



## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 4, 2022)

> Canon’s next APS-C camera will be a small form factor “vlogger”, which we’re told will be close to the Canon EOS M6 Mark II in design.
> Confirmed specifications are still relatively unreliable, but you can be sure that it will shoot 4K at 60fps and that there will likely be a 120fps mode.
> We have also been told that the camera will use a different kind of vari-angle LCD screen. We cannot confirm this as we haven’t seen the camera yet. Canon’s current design is loved by a lot of people, but not everyone. The number one complaint we hear is that the screen flips to the side, and a lot of people would like it to flip over the camera.
> We hope to confirm more information about this camera soon. It is expected to be announced before November 2022.
> More to come…



Continue reading...


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## Exploreshootshare (Aug 4, 2022)

It really does seem like canon is transitioning the M line to RF Mount.

A vlogger style camera makes a lot sense considering Sony and Nikon are selling quite a few.

I am really interested in how the new flip screen will work. Flipping it out to the side is kind of nice, but for me (just for me) I’d wish they’d release a camera where the screen just flips out underneath. That way the screen and lens would in one straight line. It would especially be helpful for wildlife (flying birds or such) when using live view etc or when the camera is pointing towards the sky.


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## Swerky (Aug 4, 2022)

This is all good and dandy, but it's a fact that an aps-c rf mount camera will never be as compact as an m mount camera for discreet street shooting and portability. An m200 with 22mm f2 kit is great for that scenario. With a screen that tilts all the way up. What's that new screen mechanism? One that tilts all the way up as well as to the side?


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## SnowMiku (Aug 4, 2022)

It looks like this will be the M6II replacement. Maybe the screen tilt will be the same as the M5?


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## davidcl0nel (Aug 4, 2022)

Swerky said:


> This is all good and dandy, but it's a fact that an aps-c rf mount camera will never be as compact as an m mount camera for discreet street shooting and portability. An m200 with 22mm f2 kit is great for that scenario. With a screen that tilts all the way up. What's that new screen mechanism? One that tilts all the way up as well as to the side?


Then use your current M until it someday explode. You are not forced to update the camera, if it not fits your personal use case.
But maybe its for others well enough.

Edit: And I think (and already said this in previous articles) this will be a R100 or maybe even smaller a R1000.


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## Bob Howland (Aug 4, 2022)

If Canon is serious about vlogging, they need to port the 22 and 11-22 lenses from the M-mount and introduce a 15 f/2 lens as well.


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## Swerky (Aug 4, 2022)

davidcl0nel said:


> Then use your current M until it someday explode. You are not forced to update the camera, if it not fits your personal use case.
> But maybe its for others well enough.
> 
> Edit: And I think (and already said this in previous articles) this will be a R100 or maybe even smaller a R1000.


What I'm saying is that eos m won't be easily replaced by crop sensor eos r because of what I previously said. Not a personal matter. I don't own an eos m but I am looking for a small kit for street shooting, and the mentioned m200 with 22mm lens could well be it. Certainly won't be waiting for small eos r cameras.


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## AlP (Aug 4, 2022)

davidcl0nel said:


> Then use your current M until it someday explode. You are not forced to update the camera, if it not fits your personal use case.
> But maybe its for others well enough.
> 
> Edit: And I think (and already said this in previous articles) this will be a R100 or maybe even smaller a R1000.


One of the reasons I (and others) bought the M6 was that it could be used as an emergency back-up body for an EF-mount camera when travelling. Even with the EF adapter it's light and small and as such not an issue when luggage space and weight have to be minimized. That is no longer possible if the main camera uses the RF mount.
Of course this is a niche use-case.


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## EOS 4 Life (Aug 4, 2022)

AlP said:


> One of the reasons I (and others) bought the M6 was that it could be used as an emergency back-up body for an EF-mount camera when travelling. Even with the EF adapter it's light and small and as such not an issue when luggage space and weight have to be minimized. That is no longer possible if the main camera uses the RF mount.
> Of course this is a niche use-case.


I think the m50 could use a mark III upgrade
The Powershot division is still around and this is not sounding like a Powershot camera


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## mbike999 (Aug 4, 2022)

Lost me at vlogger camera


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## vangelismm (Aug 4, 2022)

Swerky said:


> This is all good and dandy, but it's a fact that an aps-c rf mount camera will never be as compact as an m mount camera for discreet street shooting and portability. An m200 with 22mm f2 kit is great for that scenario. With a screen that tilts all the way up. What's that new screen mechanism? One that tilts all the way up as well as to the side?


Why not?
Just look at Sigma FP, smaller than M6 mark II but with bigger mount.

Probally any eos m fits an RF mount throat.


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## bergstrom (Aug 4, 2022)

whats wrong with the current flip screen? Not a damn thing. It definitely beats Nikon's pull back thingy.


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## Swerky (Aug 4, 2022)

vangelismm said:


> Why not?
> Just look at Sigma FP, smaller than M6 mark II but with bigger mount.
> 
> Probally any eos m fits an RF mount throat.


True. If Canon does make a design like the fp. With a pancake lens it'll still be small enough, albeit ultimately heavier.


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## jose.molero (Aug 4, 2022)

there is nothing wrong with the current flip screen for general purpose uses, but for some specific cases a diferente flip system could work better, for example, a upper flip screen can work better for vlogging.... IF and only IF they move the hot shoe to the side so the shotgun mic don't mess with the screen


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## vangelismm (Aug 4, 2022)

jose.molero said:


> there is nothing wrong with the current flip screen for general purpose uses, but for some specific cases a diferente flip system could work better, for example, a upper flip screen can work better for vlogging.... IF and only IF they move the hot shoe to the side so the shotgun mic don't mess with the screen


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## nunataks (Aug 4, 2022)

The only good thing about this news that I can see is we might get a prime RF-s lens or 2.


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## John Wilde (Aug 4, 2022)

Yes, Canon needs an R comparable to the Sony ZV-E10 and Nikon Z30.
​​


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## SaP34US (Aug 4, 2022)

Is the Z30 crop or FF?


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## John Wilde (Aug 4, 2022)

SaP34US said:


> Is the Z30 crop or FF?


Crop.


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## ZenYogiVegan (Aug 4, 2022)

someone needs to tell Canon vlogging is dead


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## becceric (Aug 5, 2022)

davidcl0nel said:


> Then use your current M until it someday explode. You are not forced to update the camera, if it not fits your personal use case.
> But maybe its for others well enough.
> 
> Edit: And I think (and already said this in previous articles) this will be a R100 or maybe even smaller a R1000.


I think Swerky fully understands the ability to continue using a currently owned camera. That is a point that could have gone unsaid. In my mind, statements like that do not further a conversation but breed negativity.


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## mpwolken (Aug 5, 2022)

I am among the flip up fans. I have the R6 and M6 Mark II. For portrait orientation shots, this is a place where the R6 screen helps more because it can allow me to work with the camera like a waist level viewfinder. 95% of my shots are landscape though, and for talking to the camera, flip up is good too. So, hmm. I'm with them. I also don't see the value of the RF-S mount on a compact camera unless they come out with lenses that can compete with the Sigma 16mm 1.4, the Canon 32mm and the Canon 22mm lenses for size as well. Big lenses suck on small bodies. I hope they are aggressively negotiating with Sigma to bring their mirrorless APS-C lenses over to RF-S cameras. Maybe they can convince Leica or Zeiss to join the Canon party; it would be good to get the support that Sony and Panasonic have from more than just Sigma.


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## Kit Chan (Aug 5, 2022)

I just upgraded from the M200 to an M6 II.
4K 60fps and the auto focus of the latest RF cameras excite me, so maybe I'll start to transition over next year.


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## Skux (Aug 5, 2022)

Now they just need an RF-S lens that is actually suitable for vlogging lol


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## jam05 (Aug 5, 2022)

Exploreshootshare said:


> It really does seem like canon is transitioning the M line to RF Mount.
> 
> A vlogger style camera makes a lot sense considering Sony and Nikon are selling quite a few.
> 
> I am really interested in how the new flip screen will work. Flipping it out to the side is kind of nice, but for me (just for me) I’d wish they’d release a camera where the screen just flips out underneath. That way the screen and lens would in one straight line. It would especially be helpful for wildlife (flying birds or such) when using live view etc or when the camera is pointing towards the sky.


That was tried before. Was not really liked by vloggers/live streamers. Doesnt work very well when camera mounted on a tripod or. Def dont want that screen at the bottom when doing gimbal calibration.


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## Navyo Eller (Aug 5, 2022)

Maybe the rumors refer also to this article?:









Canon M50 Mark III Coming in Late 2022 - Canon Camera News


Canon is rumored to update its APS-c compact camera in 2022. Canon M50 Mark III is expected to arrive in Q4 of 2022 with advanced video specs. According to the latest Canon Rumors, if everything goes on schedule then we will also have the Canon PowerShot G7 X Mark IV camera in Q1 / Q2 of 2022....



www.canoncameranews.com





Not sure if this real, neve heard about that website.


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## jam05 (Aug 5, 2022)

bergstrom said:


> whats wrong with the current flip screen? Not a damn thing. It definitely beats Nikon's pull back thingy.


Depends on which gimbal one is using. And how it will calibrate. Especially compact gimbals


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## David - Sydney (Aug 5, 2022)

Swerky said:


> This is all good and dandy, but it's a fact that an aps-c rf mount camera will never be as compact as an m mount camera for discreet street shooting and portability. An m200 with 22mm f2 kit is great for that scenario.


Without a RF pancake lens, I can't see any RF combination being discreet and pocketable.


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## David - Sydney (Aug 5, 2022)

vangelismm said:


> Why not?
> Just look at Sigma FP, smaller than M6 mark II but with bigger mount.
> 
> Probally any eos m fits an RF mount throat.


The main issue with the fp/fp L is the lack of mechanical shutter which allows it to be as small as it is. Read out speed will need to be good to remove it. Flash sync speed will also be impacted by the read out speed as well. Nikon has shown us how good electronic shutter can be but trickling that tech down to base level will take a long time.


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## davidcl0nel (Aug 5, 2022)

becceric said:


> I think Swerky fully understands the ability to continue using a currently owned camera. That is a point that could have gone unsaid. In my mind, statements like that do not further a conversation but breed negativity.


But the negativity of someone told everyone what he don't need is ok? That is also not constructive.
Should I start a list, what I don't need, maybe someone is listening?


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## mb66energy (Aug 5, 2022)

Maybe good times for photo- and videographers who are looking for advanced cameras at moderate prices.

I have received my R7 two weeks ago and I am fascinated how this camera helps to take the photos I want. AF is great, and if it doesn't work in a situation (because I do not know to set it) the great MF aid worked great. The automatic horizon feature allows me to keep the display clean and avoids feedback loops in my brain viewing the level tool and making it green. Image stabilizer is very good at least with non-IS wide angles/short telephotos so I do not have to invest into new IS glass.
And I think the R7 exists at 1500 EUR/$ because Canon needs to draw people further into its mid to high end eco system.


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## mb66energy (Aug 5, 2022)

David - Sydney said:


> Without a RF pancake lens, I can't see any RF combination being discreet and pocketable.


But an RF-S 2.0 22 derived from the EF-M 2.0 22 might do the trick, very pancakey - and with an R7 it is more lenscappy.


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## koenkooi (Aug 5, 2022)

David - Sydney said:


> Without a RF pancake lens, I can't see any RF combination being discreet and pocketable.


The RF16mm STM is quite discreet already. But an EF-M 22mm type of discreet would be even better of course


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## LogicExtremist (Aug 5, 2022)

ZenYogiVegan said:


> someone needs to tell Canon vlogging is dead


Many people refer to YouTubers as vloggers, so the term is used inerchangeably, even though vlogging is usually understood to mean someone walking around filming themselves with some form of a camera on a selfie-stick, extension or gimbal.


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## EOS 4 Life (Aug 5, 2022)

vangelismm said:


> Why not?
> Just look at Sigma FP, smaller than M6 mark II but with bigger mount.
> 
> Probally any eos m fits an RF mount throat.


Look at the Fp with a lens attached


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## kcimer (Aug 5, 2022)

M6 II is ideal as a second and backup camera for me. It is so light and compact, and the lenses are also. With the converter and in a pinch I can put any EF lens on it. Beside that, the fun lenses are also compact and cheap (Samyang 8mm fish, Rokinon 6.5mm circular fish, f0.95s ...) Since the sensor is the same as R7, I don't see the problem to make M6 mk III - the body and controlls could stay the same - stabilization would be great and 22 1.4 like the 32 1.4.


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## domo_p1000 (Aug 5, 2022)

_... the camera will use a different kind of vari-angle LCD screen._
I know that screen articulation implementation is a _Marmite _thing - you either love it or hate it. As a photographer I have always preferred the fully articulated screens, that are more typically enjoyed by videographers, over flip-up designs (although I more typically use fixed-screen cameras). However, I will be interested to see what Canon have designed, not least because they could be test-bedding a screen concept similar to one that will be implemented in the 'R1' (although I would be very happy with the R3 solution). Ultimately though, I do not fall in the sale demographic for this camera!


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## EOS 4 Life (Aug 5, 2022)

mpwolken said:


> I am among the flip up fans


There are a lot of flip up fans
It would be smart for Canon to not ignore that market
However, I am not sure how to do that and have the new multifunction hot shoe
It is not an issue with the m6 II because that hot shoe is only used for a flash or EVF


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## EOS 4 Life (Aug 5, 2022)

Navyo Eller said:


> Maybe the rumors refer also to this article?:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Those specs are identical to the rumored R100 specs


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## LogicExtremist (Aug 5, 2022)

domo_p1000 said:


> _... the camera will use a different kind of vari-angle LCD screen._
> I know that screen articulation implementation is a _Marmite _thing - you either love it or hate it. As a photographer I have always preferred the fully articulated screens, that are more typically enjoyed by videographers, over flip-up designs (although I more typically use fixed-screen cameras). However, I will be interested to see what Canon have designed, not least because they could be test-bedding a screen concept similar to one that will be implemented in the 'R1' (although I would be very happy with the R3 solution). Ultimately though, I do not fall in the sale demographic for this camera!


Fully articulated screens are the thing with vlogging or other self-filming approaches, they aren't blocked by cables plugged into ports on the side of the camera, microphones mounted atop, or any other camera attachments. Otherwise a large, expensive and cumbersome monitor screen is required!


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## EOS 4 Life (Aug 5, 2022)

LogicExtremist said:


> Fully articulated screens are the thing with vlogging or other self-filming approaches, they aren't blocked by cables plugged into ports on the side of the camera, microphones mounted atop, or any other camera attachments. Otherwise a large, expensive and cumbersome monitor screen is required!


A lot of vloggers prefer to look at themselves above the screen
The downside is that a microphone in the hot shoe would block the screen


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## Nigthguarder (Aug 5, 2022)

Guys a quick question. 
Should I spend my money and buy the M6 II. Or wait for this one to arrive? 

We don’t know the specs tho..


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## koenkooi (Aug 5, 2022)

EOS 4 Life said:


> A lot of vloggers prefer to look at themselves above the screen
> The downside is that a microphone in the hot shoe would block the screen


Looking to the side also feels unnatural to the audience. 
But with a tripod on the bottom and a mic on top, the options for a screen are very limited.

A tiny OLED on the front


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## Bob Howland (Aug 5, 2022)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Those specs are identical to the rumored R100 specs


Are the rumored R100 and rumored M50-3 both supposed to have viewfinders? I thought no for the former and yes for the latter.

Update: On second thought, the M50-3 sounds like a derivation from the R10. I've always wondered why Canon didn't do that. The R10 is certainly almost small enough.


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## Bob Howland (Aug 5, 2022)

Nigthguarder said:


> Guys a quick question.
> Should I spend my money and buy the M6 II. Or wait for this one to arrive?
> 
> We don’t know the specs tho..


Anything we could suggest would be a guess. You can guess as well as anybody here.


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## TinTin (Aug 5, 2022)

Nigthguarder said:


> Guys a quick question.
> Should I spend my money and buy the M6 II. Or wait for this one to arrive?
> 
> We don’t know the specs tho..


I think, for you, the key statement in the original post is:
*It is expected to be announced before November 2022.*

So, by November, the specs should be known, at which time you can make a decision based on specs and expected shipping dates. Can your decision wait a few months?


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## Bob Howland (Aug 5, 2022)

TinTin said:


> I think, for you, the key statement in the original post is:
> *It is expected to be announced before November 2022.*
> 
> So, by November, the specs should be known, at which time you can make a decision based on specs and expected shipping dates. Can your decision wait a few months?


However, maybe that rumor is complete BS or maybe it's not BS but it is 6 months premature. How much credibility does the source have?

Update: I'm talking about the M50-3 rumor, not the rumor here.


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## becceric (Aug 6, 2022)

davidcl0nel said:


> But the negativity of someone told everyone what he don't need is ok? That is also not constructive.
> Should I start a list, what I don't need, maybe someone is listening?


I think the post was mentioning relative camera sizes for discreet shooting, then inquiring about tilty/flippy display possibilities. I consider them observations without any statement of “not needing”.
Those statements were constructive to me since my wife is newly interested in a compact camera. I haven’t laid my hands on the M or R series since the closest camera stores are 60 miles away, and I currently am pleased with my 5D Mk IV. Swerky’s post gave me more information than the “use it until it breaks” statement.


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## SnowMiku (Aug 6, 2022)

Nigthguarder said:


> Guys a quick question.
> Should I spend my money and buy the M6 II. Or wait for this one to arrive?
> 
> We don’t know the specs tho..


Personally I would choose the R10 over the M6II so that would be something else for you to consider. Do you already own any EF-M lenses?


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## Swerky (Aug 6, 2022)

Nigthguarder said:


> Guys a quick question.
> Should I spend my money and buy the M6 II. Or wait for this one to arrive?
> 
> We don’t know the specs tho..


The safest thing to say right now is, if the m system ticks your boxes, there's no reason not to buy in. If you really need a more advanced autofocus system, or want to adapt eos R full frame lenses, then wait for that eos R camera. As for native lenses, crop sensor R is still in infancy.


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## Swerky (Aug 6, 2022)

davidcl0nel said:


> But the negativity of someone told everyone what he don't need is ok? That is also not constructive.
> Should I start a list, what I don't need, maybe someone is listening?


I'm merely stating that because of the larger lens mount, crop sensor eos R will never get as compact and light as eos m without sacrificing on body ergonomics and such and, in my mind at least, there will still be a place for eos m for some time even if Canon doesn't develop it anymore. Specially that crop eos R cameras are so far designed with larger grips and more protruding evf. Even the RF-S 18-150 is distinctly larger than its ef-m counterpart. Nothing to do with what I don't need. Rather to do with what users might still need.


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## Del Paso (Aug 6, 2022)

AlP said:


> One of the reasons I (and others) bought the M6 was that it could be used as an emergency back-up body for an EF-mount camera when travelling. Even with the EF adapter it's light and small and as such not an issue when luggage space and weight have to be minimized. That is no longer possible if the main camera uses the RF mount.
> Of course this is a niche use-case.


Why not?
Just use the RF to EF adapter instead. That`s what I'll do, provided the camera is small enough.


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## RexxReviews (Aug 6, 2022)

Swerky said:


> This is all good and dandy, but it's a fact that an aps-c rf mount camera will never be as compact as an m mount camera for discreet street shooting and portability. An m200 with 22mm f2 kit is great for that scenario. With a screen that tilts all the way up. What's that new screen mechanism? One that tilts all the way up as well as to the side?


More than likely just up like the Canon M200. As much as it sucks to hear it they are going to gear the camera towards VLogging. The small % of people that will complain about the minor things it has issues with when it comes to photography will not be a priority to them as it most likely won't be enough people to matter. For the general public most will be happy with the stills capabilities it will have at that price point, just as they were with the M200.


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## EOS 4 Life (Aug 6, 2022)

Nigthguarder said:


> Guys a quick question.
> Should I spend my money and buy the M6 II. Or wait for this one to arrive?
> 
> We don’t know the specs tho..


Quite frankly the RF mount does not have the lenses yet to justify such a camera
I will believe such a camera is coming once there are more RF-S lenses
I believe the R10 and R7 were coming once there were enough affordable full-frame lenses


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## masterpix (Aug 6, 2022)

Having the screen flip up will cover the view-finder, so there was no reason to do that in DSLR /R cameras. However, if there is a RF-M camera, which has no viewfinder, that is a reasonable. And since vloggers usually place the camera on a tripod, it can be a better angle for them if the screen will flip up.


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## masterpix (Aug 6, 2022)

ZenYogiVegan said:


> someone needs to tell Canon vlogging is dead


So said vlogger Zen Yogi Vegan


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## EOS 4 Life (Aug 6, 2022)

TinTin said:


> I think, for you, the key statement in the original post is:
> *It is expected to be announced before November 2022.*
> 
> So, by November, the specs should be known, at which time you can make a decision based on specs and expected shipping dates. Can your decision wait a few months?


I find it hard to believe that Canon would announce a non-professional camera during the holiday shopping season that would not be available to be purchased after the season is over.
Maybe they could announce it at the beginning of the month shipping at the end of the month


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## AlP (Aug 6, 2022)

Del Paso said:


> Why not?
> Just use the RF to EF adapter instead. That`s what I'll do, provided the camera is small enough.


Because that would force the use of EF-glass on the RF camera and would mean that two adapters are needed.

I was referring to the case where the "main" camera used to be EF-mount camera, has been replaced by an RF-mount camera, and a M6 or M6II was already there as a back-up camera. The latter can no longer be used as a back-up camera for the RF-mount camera, except if the RF-mount camera is used with EF glass only, and with the RF-EF adapter.
This was a response to another post which stated that the M-camera can be used as long as it doesn't break.

Of course if the rumoured new RF-mount camera happens to be almost as small as the M6II, it could serve the same purpose. I don't see where the RF to EF adapter would be needed though, or were you referring to the case where the RF-mount camera would be used as a back-up for an EF-mount camera?

As for size expectations, technically the camera could be almost as small as an M6II, but that would compromise ergonomics and Canon is not known for doing that. At least the RF-S lenses are almost as small as the EF-M lenses, so the complete package might still be very small


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## Del Paso (Aug 6, 2022)

AlP said:


> Because that would force the use of EF-glass on the RF camera and would mean that two adapters are needed.
> 
> I was referring to the case where the "main" camera used to be EF-mount camera, has been replaced by an RF-mount camera, and a M6 or M6II was already there as a back-up camera. The latter can no longer be used as a back-up camera for the RF-mount camera, except if the RF-mount camera is used with EF glass only, and with the RF-EF adapter.
> This was a response to another post which stated that the M-camera can be used as long as it doesn't break.
> ...


I must confess I use my RF mount camera (and the 5 DIV, obviously) almost exclusively with EF lenses (15 to date...).
So, a "tiny" APS/C RF camera will be ideal for me as a backup for both the 5 DIV and the EOS R.


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## chasingrealness (Aug 7, 2022)

jose.molero said:


> there is nothing wrong with the current flip screen for general purpose uses, but for some specific cases a diferente flip system could work better, for example, a upper flip screen can work better for vlogging.... IF and only IF they move the hot shoe to the side so the shotgun mic don't mess with the screen


A really good vlogging camera shouldn’t need an external mic in every scenario (obviously sometimes you’d still want one or a few working together). But hopefully one of these days camera manufacturers will start taking that more seriously.


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## rawshooter (Aug 7, 2022)

As long as it does auto iso with a Shutter speed limit like the M6 II. 

And I guess we need more great and compact lenses to go along a compact body.


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## LSXPhotog (Aug 7, 2022)

I see Canon learned nothing from the failures of the EOS-M line. We’re going to have 3 APS-C camera bodies and only 2 RF-S lenses that cover the same focal lengths. Give us an 11-22, 22mm and 32mm as soon as possible. Port over the same designs again because the EF-M lenses were excellent. Then get us a 56mm and a 15-45 f/4 or f/2.8. PLEASE start weather sealing these things like Fuji does with all its lenses.


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## Exploreshootshare (Aug 7, 2022)

jam05 said:


> That was tried before. Was not really liked by vloggers/live streamers. Doesnt work very well when camera mounted on a tripod or. Def dont want that screen at the bottom when doing gimbal calibration.


I believe it really wouldn't work for vloggers, no doubt. But also I stated that I wish and that this was just for me! But maybe Canon or any other manufacturer could release different kinds of screen mechanisms which are custom-made/ specialized for their target group: 

1. flip-tilt screen like on the R/ R5/ R6 for prosumers 
2. flip screen made for vloggers
3. Z9 kind of flip screen for wildlife shooters 

That would be a great way to differentiate their camera lineup. Only downside would be: three types of screen lead to higher costs in manufacturing.


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## armd (Aug 7, 2022)

Seems like a lot of $ for a "vlogging" camera. Then again, I was hoping that the R7 was going to be sufficient for wildlife and BIF. It's not. Ok for static subjects, though try filming a moving heard or BIF and it fails 50% of the time. I'm sticking with my R3/R5.


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## David - Sydney (Aug 8, 2022)

koenkooi said:


> The RF16mm STM is quite discreet already. But an EF-M 22mm type of discreet would be even better of course


Somewhat discreet at 69x40mm but not a general street photography focal length
I was think more of a RF version of the EF40mm pancake (68x22mm) at almost half the length of the RF16mm. Adapting it to R mount doubles the size/weight and cost unfortunately. An RF40mm pancake would end up being my lens cap ie always on.


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## David - Sydney (Aug 8, 2022)

mb66energy said:


> But an RF-S 2.0 22 derived from the EF-M 2.0 22 might do the trick, very pancakey - and with an R7 it is more lenscappy.


Yes, a RF version that would be ~35mm focal length would be useful (but not crop). The length of the EFm 22mm is about the same as the EF40mm @~22mm. A pancake would basically be the same depth as the grip!


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## David - Sydney (Aug 8, 2022)

domo_p1000 said:


> _... the camera will use a different kind of vari-angle LCD screen._
> I know that screen articulation implementation is a _Marmite _thing - you either love it or hate it. As a photographer I have always preferred the fully articulated screens, that are more typically enjoyed by videographers, over flip-up designs (although I more typically use fixed-screen cameras). However, I will be interested to see what Canon have designed, not least because they could be test-bedding a screen concept similar to one that will be implemented in the 'R1' (although I would be very happy with the R3 solution). Ultimately though, I do not fall in the sale demographic for this camera!


Hate marmite but vegemite is great when applied discreetly!

No real perfect solution for vlogging... either the hotshoe is blocked with a flip over the top screen, or the mic/etc ports are blocked for a vari-angle articulating screen, or flip under screen is blocked by the tripod. The first is more "natural" for vloggers to flick their eyes to rather than the side for viewers.

As a landscaper, the current articulating screen is perfect for me.


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## bergstrom (Aug 8, 2022)

I wish canon would hurry the F up with the R2 or RP2


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## victorshikhman (Aug 8, 2022)

I'm definitely on board with the smaller body, smaller lenses movement. There's no shortage of bodies for pro and prosumer uses. Very often I wanna grab a nice little almost pocketable camera with a nice sensor and good optics, for general travel/family/events, and the smaller the better. I end up grabbing my T2i with a pancake way more often than my 80D, each time guilt-tripping myself for leaving a better camera at home. It's a disappointment the M line is getting discontinued, as an M6II or III was probably my next move (was waiting for IBIS). I'd like to think Canon can come up with a small/light package, but the physics of that RF mount are not encouraging.


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## victorshikhman (Aug 8, 2022)

Has anyone played with EF-S lenses on the R7/R10? I've seen reports of focusing problems on dpreview. A big reason to invest in RF-S bodies would be to use the plentiful and cheap EF-S lenses, many of them quite good.


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## Bob Howland (Aug 8, 2022)

victorshikhman said:


> I'm definitely on board with the smaller body, smaller lenses movement. There's no shortage of bodies for pro and prosumer uses. Very often I wanna grab a nice little almost pocketable camera with a nice sensor and good optics, for general travel/family/events, and the smaller the better. I end up grabbing my T2i with a pancake way more often than my 80D, each time guilt-tripping myself for leaving a better camera at home. It's a disappointment the M line is getting discontinued, as an M6II or III was probably my next move (was waiting for IBIS). I'd like to think Canon can come up with a small/light package, but the physics of that RF mount are not encouraging.


After spending Saturday walking around and photographing a local historical living village, I'm sold on the size and weight of the R7. The M5 feels too small now, especially the grip. However, I don't like the Tracking AF. It solves a problem I don't have most of the time but interferes with most of my photography. The tracking frame moves when I don't want it to, even with Subject Tracking off. I want the tracking frame to stay in the middle of the viewfinder image, all day long.


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## scyrene (Aug 8, 2022)

LSXPhotog said:


> I see Canon learned nothing from the failures of the EOS-M line. We’re going to have 3 APS-C camera bodies and only 2 RF-S lenses that cover the same focal lengths. Give us an 11-22, 22mm and 32mm as soon as possible. Port over the same designs again because the EF-M lenses were excellent. Then get us a 56mm and a 15-45 f/4 or f/2.8. PLEASE start weather sealing these things like Fuji does with all its lenses.


"Failures" lol. They learned they can sell a lot of cameras without needing to produce a big range of dedicated or high end lenses. I would expect them to release some of the other M lenses as RF-S because of the minimal development costs, but beyond that I think you misunderstand who they aim these things at. You want higher end, you use RF or adapted EF.

(If they won't put weather sealing in consumer superteles that you might expect to use in rain like the RF 800 f/11, I think there's no chance the APS-C ones will get it).


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## Bob Howland (Aug 8, 2022)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


To change the subject slightly, do you think Canon will introduce a 1-stop speed booster for the APS-C R-mount cameras like they have available for the C70? Doing the math, with a 1.6X crop factor, they could conceivably do a 1-1/3 stop booster.


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## victorshikhman (Aug 8, 2022)

Bob Howland said:


> To change the subject slightly, do you think Canon will introduce a 1-stop speed booster for the APS-C R-mount cameras like they have available for the C70? Doing the math, with a 1.6X crop factor, they could conceivably do a 1-1/3 stop booster.


Speedboosters for the C70 make sense because they want videographers to adopt the platform, and film production has budgets, etc. Speedboosters for RF-S would reduce the incentive to upgrade to full frame glass. What's their incentive?


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## OskarB (Aug 8, 2022)

Bob Howland said:


> After spending Saturday walking around and photographing a local historical living village, I'm sold on the size and weight of the R7. The M5 feels too small now, especially the grip. However, I don't like the Tracking AF. It solves a problem I don't have most of the time but interferes with most of my photography. The tracking frame moves when I don't want it to, even with Subject Tracking off. I want the tracking frame to stay in the middle of the viewfinder image, all day long.


Maybe you move it with your nose or cheek on the display?


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## Bob Howland (Aug 8, 2022)

OskarB said:


> Maybe you move it with your nose or cheek on the display?


The display screen is toward the camera body. I've discovered that the problem occurs much more frequently if I'm not gentle enough in rotating the display and pressing it toward the body,

Update: What i really want is a third position on the Subject Tracking menu item which keeps the tracking frame centered.


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## Bob Howland (Aug 8, 2022)

victorshikhman said:


> Speedboosters for the C70 make sense because they want videographers to adopt the platform, and film production has budgets, etc. Speedboosters for RF-S would reduce the incentive to upgrade to full frame glass. What's their incentive?


Agreed. So Metabones it is. I own one (1.4x) to attach EF lenses to an M5. It's pretty erratic but the image quality is better than I expected.


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## OskarB (Aug 8, 2022)

Bob Howland said:


> The display screen is toward the camera body. I've discovered that the problem occurs much more frequently if I'm not gentle enough in rotating the display and pressing it toward the body,
> 
> Update: What i really want is a third position on the Subject Tracking menu item which keeps the tracking frame centered.


In the menu you can setup the touch control: standard - sensitive - off
Have tried to switch it off?
I can only tell from the R5, guessing it is the same for R7.


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## Bob Howland (Aug 8, 2022)

OskarB said:


> In the menu you can setup the touch control: standard - sensitive - off
> Have tried to switch it off?
> I can only tell from the R5, guessing it is the same for R7.


That fixed my problem but I think disabling the touch screen will create more problems than it solves. I think I'll just be gentle and complain to Canon.


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## Jethro (Aug 8, 2022)

Bob Howland said:


> That fixed my problem but I think disabling the touch screen will create more problems than it solves. I think I'll just be gentle and complain to Canon.


Gentle complaints are often the most effective


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## Czardoom (Aug 8, 2022)

bergstrom said:


> I wish canon would hurry the F up with the R2 or RP2


Anything wrong with the current R or RP that makes you so desperate?


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## LSXPhotog (Aug 9, 2022)

scyrene said:


> "Failures" lol. They learned they can sell a lot of cameras without needing to produce a big range of dedicated or high end lenses. I would expect them to release some of the other M lenses as RF-S because of the minimal development costs, but beyond that I think you misunderstand who they aim these things at. You want higher end, you use RF or adapted EF.
> 
> (If they won't put weather sealing in consumer superteles that you might expect to use in rain like the RF 800 f/11, I think there's no chance the APS-C ones will get it).


You laugh at me, but you defend the pathetic crap Canon did with the EOS-M line? I laugh at you. LOL I hate seeing stuff like this. The M50 accomplished exactly what it was intended, but they left a lot of potential on the table which is why I abandoned their APS-C cameras for Fujifilm. It never matured into the camera system that matched the performance capability of the M6 Mark II. Adapting EF and EF-S lenses completely negates the benefits of building a small mirrorless system,


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## koenkooi (Aug 9, 2022)

Bob Howland said:


> To change the subject slightly, do you think Canon will introduce a 1-stop speed booster for the APS-C R-mount cameras like they have available for the C70? Doing the math, with a 1.6X crop factor, they could conceivably do a 1-1/3 stop booster.


The Canon speedbooster isn't specific to the C70, the "not compatible" talk seems to deal with lens corrections being available, not with actual compatibility. In one of the R7 live streams someone asked Rudy Winston about it and he said something like "I think it will work... <pause> ehm... <pause> I'm not sure why it isn't officially supported, maybe software?" It was funny to see Rudy remember the official line after starting to answer 

I would be nice if someone could actually test it in a store or rent it and report back with the results  My suspicions is that on the C70 Canon added special correction profiles for certain lenses when used with the speedbooster, the other lenses will be distorted. I don't know if the speedbooster itself adds distortion or not, but given the amount of software correction needed for most RF lenses, I wouldn't be suprised to see the speedbooster adding distortion.


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## bergstrom (Aug 9, 2022)

Czardoom said:


> Anything wrong with the current R or RP that makes you so desperate?




RP was a letdown, crap battery etc.. RP2 hopefully will have same pixels or even slightly higher, maybe an upgrade in fps, LPE6 battery, proper 4k, no recording limit or increased to an hour at leasta d hopefully it can come in under $1400.


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## koenkooi (Aug 9, 2022)

bergstrom said:


> RP was a letdown, crap battery etc.. RP2 hopefully will have same pixels or even slightly higher, maybe an upgrade in fps, LPE6 battery, proper 4k, no recording limit or increased to an hour at leasta d hopefully it can come in under $1400.


I suspect an RP2 would be the same as the original, but with the R6 sensor and Digic X. It will probably lack IBIS as well. 

My M6II is giving focus errors with the 32mm f/1.4 (the store is being difficult about getting it checked), so I'm looking for a small camera to complement my R5. The R10/R7 are a decent option, but this rumoured vlogging-without-evf model sounds even more interesting.


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## Del Paso (Aug 9, 2022)

Czardoom said:


> Anything wrong with the current R or RP that makes you so desperate?


Maybe lack of ibis?
This is what bothers me most, when using my "new" baby, the EF 180 macro.


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## CLonsberry (Aug 9, 2022)

RexxReviews said:


> More than likely just up like the Canon M200. As much as it sucks to hear it they are going to gear the camera towards VLogging. The small % of people that will complain about the minor things it has issues with when it comes to photography will not be a priority to them as it most likely won't be enough people to matter. For the general public most will be happy with the stills capabilities it will have at that price point, just as they were with the M200.


I was really sad to hear that the M-series cameras were on their way out. I had just decided to buy one. I rented a M6 for a trip instead of taking one of my other cameras and I LOVED the size, weight, and, ultimately, the picture quality. Not the greatest but certainly acceptable for the use. So, rather than buying a camera with a known short-ish lifespan, I'm holding off until Canon drops the replacement. I like that my RF lenses may come into use. On the other hand, most of my RF lenses are NOT small, light and versatile. So.. we'll wait and see. Maybe Canon will come out with a small RF lens to match the small body. I dunno.

Meh.. I should probably just buy the M6. I have an AE-1 and an A-1.


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## Del Paso (Aug 9, 2022)

CLonsberry said:


> I was really sad to hear that the M-series cameras were on their way out. I had just decided to buy one. I rented a M6 for a trip instead of taking one of my other cameras and I LOVED the size, weight, and, ultimately, the picture quality. Not the greatest but certainly acceptable for the use. So, rather than buying a camera with a known short-ish lifespan, I'm holding off until Canon drops the replacement. I like that my RF lenses may come into use. On the other hand, most of my RF lenses are NOT small, light and versatile. So.. we'll wait and see. Maybe Canon will come out with a small RF lens to match the small body. I dunno.
> 
> Meh.. I should probably just buy the M6. I have an AE-1 and an A-1.


Unlike you, I'm still rather in the EF sytem (14 EFs, 1 RF lens...).
That's why I've decided to buy an M6 II. The M system is not yet discontinued, even though , it seems, no longer evolving. But a good camera last 1 or more decades, so, getting an M 6 can't be an error. I doubt the "mini" APS/C R will as small, and the RF lenses rather huge...
M6 plus 3 lenses, and you have an excellent lightweight system, for certainl less money than the RF APS /C equivalent.


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## CLonsberry (Aug 10, 2022)

Del Paso said:


> Unlike you, I'm still rather in the EF sytem (14 EFs, 1 RF lens...).
> That's why I've decided to buy an M6 II. The M system is not yet discontinued, even though , it seems, no longer evolving. But a good camera last 1 or more decades, so, getting an M 6 can't be an error. I doubt the "mini" APS/C R will as small, and the RF lenses rather huge...
> M6 plus 3 lenses, and you have an excellent lightweight system, for certainl less money than the RF APS /C equivalent.


I do still have a number of EF lenses. Heck, I even have some FD lenses! LOL. (Yes.. sometimes I put them on the EOS R and then decide I hate them there and put them back where they belong. But I can. I don't have gear syndrome in regard to buying cameras. But I have a weakness for lenses.) But.. yeah.. I think I'm gonna get one too. I wish the prices would come down a bit. But.. meh.. it's only money, right? LOL


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## scyrene (Aug 10, 2022)

LSXPhotog said:


> You laugh at me, but you defend the pathetic crap Canon did with the EOS-M line? I laugh at you. LOL I hate seeing stuff like this. The M50 accomplished exactly what it was intended, but they left a lot of potential on the table which is why I abandoned their APS-C cameras for Fujifilm. It never matured into the camera system that matched the performance capability of the M6 Mark II. Adapting EF and EF-S lenses completely negates the benefits of building a small mirrorless system,


Oh dear. Listen, I have no strong opinions about the M line. I just don't imagine every device or range has to meet my personal needs, or those of every potential customer. Some things are aimed at casual users, newbies, or people for whom price or size trump all other considerations. I'm quite willing to believe Fuji's APS-C offerings are better for enthusiasts or professionals, but they are a very different company with different goals (or rather, they seek to achieve the same goal, maximising profit, by a different strategy to Canon).

You need to try and look at things from different perspectives, you might feel less frustrated that way.


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## Bob Howland (Aug 10, 2022)

Jethro said:


> Gentle complaints are often the most effective


A Quality Control manager at a previous employer maintained that it was the good customers who complained. The poor customers just went away and you never knew what you had to do to keep them as a customer.


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## Bob Howland (Aug 10, 2022)

Bob Howland said:


> Agreed. So Metabones it is. I own one (1.4x) to attach EF lenses to an M5. It's pretty erratic but the image quality is better than I expected.


According to the Q&A on B&H for the Canon 1.4X speed booster, originally intended to use with the C70, that booster does work with both the R7 and R10. The responses to questions for both Metabones were pretty negative.

Update: B&H calls it "Canon Mount Adapter EF-EOS R 0.71x"


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## entoman (Aug 10, 2022)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


Please remove the extremely irritating "consent to cookies" window that pops up every time I click on any link on this site.

I'm happy to click on "I consent" or "I don't consent" ONCE per visit, but when the consent dialog appears a dozen or more times on every page of the site it becomes intensely irritating.

Are you trying to lose your existing visitors?

It sure looks that way...


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## entoman (Aug 10, 2022)

Del Paso said:


> Maybe lack of ibis?
> This is what bothers me most, when using my "new" baby, the EF 180 macro.


My experience:

Using the 180mm macro on 5DS, 5DMkiv and R5 bodies, IBIS only makes a very small amount of difference to hand-holdability - probably about a 0.5 to 1 stop improvement with the R5 in my case (IBIS effectiveness will vary according to how "shaky" the photographer is).

Using my other EF lenses (that have OIS) on the above bodies shows that by far the biggest contribution to reducing camera shake comes from the OIS, not the IBIS.


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## Del Paso (Aug 10, 2022)

entoman said:


> My experience:
> 
> Using the 180mm macro on 5DS, 5DMkiv and R5 bodies, IBIS only makes a very small amount of difference to hand-holdability - probably about a 0.5 to 1 stop improvement with the R5 in my case (IBIS effectiveness will vary according to how "shaky" the photographer is).
> 
> Using my other EF lenses (that have OIS) on the above bodies shows that by far the biggest contribution to reducing camera shake comes from the OIS, not the IBIS.


Thanks for the info. 1 stop improvement will not justify the acquisition of a new body, money saved for travel!
Anyway, since I dislike using very high ISO, my 180mm will most often be used with a ringflash.


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## AlanF (Aug 10, 2022)

entoman said:


> My experience:
> 
> Using the 180mm macro on 5DS, 5DMkiv and R5 bodies, IBIS only makes a very small amount of difference to hand-holdability - probably about a 0.5 to 1 stop improvement with the R5 in my case (IBIS effectiveness will vary according to how "shaky" the photographer is).
> 
> Using my other EF lenses (that have OIS) on the above bodies shows that by far the biggest contribution to reducing camera shake comes from the OIS, not the IBIS.


The longer the lens, the more important OIS and less importance of IBIS.


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## Abbuzze (Aug 11, 2022)

Vlogger camera with the terrible 18-45? No idea why Canon started with such a redicoulus kit lense. A simplified EF-M 15-45 but with the price tag of a Nikon Z DX 16-50. Canon should improve the RF-S lineup, before the release of new APS-C cameras.


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## koenkooi (Aug 11, 2022)

entoman said:


> My experience:
> 
> Using the 180mm macro on 5DS, 5DMkiv and R5 bodies, IBIS only makes a very small amount of difference to hand-holdability - probably about a 0.5 to 1 stop improvement with the R5 in my case (IBIS effectiveness will vary according to how "shaky" the photographer is).
> 
> Using my other EF lenses (that have OIS) on the above bodies shows that by far the biggest contribution to reducing camera shake comes from the OIS, not the IBIS.


I haven't noticed any (big) improvement in the resulting pictures either, but the EVF is a lot more pleasant to use with IBIS enabled.


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## AlP (Aug 25, 2022)

It looks like Canon is exploring options using a foldable rear screen:





(Source: USPTO)
Note that both are shown with an RF mount (not M mount). The second example is particularly interesting as it offers controls usually found on larger camera bodies; It also has a rather weirdly shaped grip at the front (not shown in the picture) to keep size at a minimum. The body is as tall as the mount, meaning that these cameras would barely be larger than an M6.
Could this be a future vlogger-style camera? The text in the rumour hinted at a new type of rear display, but I doubt that a camera which is already in the field now will have a foldable one


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## bergstrom (Aug 25, 2022)

nah. don't like, the flips screens are fine as they are.


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## jam05 (Oct 1, 2022)

Exploreshootshare said:


> It really does seem like canon is transitioning the M line to RF Mount.
> 
> A vlogger style camera makes a lot sense considering Sony and Nikon are selling quite a few.
> 
> I am really interested in how the new flip screen will work. Flipping it out to the side is kind of nice, but for me (just for me) I’d wish they’d release a camera where the screen just flips out underneath. That way the screen and lens would in one straight line. It would especially be helpful for wildlife (flying birds or such) when using live view etc or when the camera is pointing towards the sky.


And hit the tripod or the gimbal? That's a non starter for many


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## Michael Clark (Oct 13, 2022)

Swerky said:


> The safest thing to say right now is, if the m system ticks your boxes, there's no reason not to buy in. If you really need a more advanced autofocus system, or want to adapt eos R full frame lenses, then wait for that eos R camera. As for native lenses, crop sensor R is still in infancy.



There's no more need to "adapt" full frame EOS RF lenses to an APS-C EOS R camera than there is to "adapt" EF lenses to an APS-C EF-S body. You just mount the full frame RF lens on the APS-C EOS R body.


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## Michael Clark (Oct 13, 2022)

LSXPhotog said:


> I see Canon learned nothing from the failures of the EOS-M line. We’re going to have 3 APS-C camera bodies and only 2 RF-S lenses that cover the same focal lengths. Give us an 11-22, 22mm and 32mm as soon as possible. Port over the same designs again because the EF-M lenses were excellent. Then get us a 56mm and a 15-45 f/4 or f/2.8. PLEASE start weather sealing these things like Fuji does with all its lenses.



The other camera manufacturers would love to have a "failure" like the EOS M system, which is the highest selling MILC system in history.


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## SteveC (Oct 13, 2022)

Michael Clark said:


> There's no more need to "adapt" full frame EOS RF lenses to an APS-C EOS R camera than there is to "adapt" EF lenses to an APS-C EF-S body. You just mount the full frame RF lens on the APS-C EOS R body.


True there's no need to adapt. But I didn't see anything in what you quoted to indicate he thought he needed an adapter.

He might want an RF-S version of a lens that already exists in RF, simply because it would likely be smaller/more compact, and cheaper.


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## Michael Clark (Oct 16, 2022)

SteveC said:


> True there's no need to adapt. But I didn't see anything in what you quoted to indicate he thought he needed an adapter.
> 
> He might want an RF-S version of a lens that already exists in RF, simply because it would likely be smaller/more compact, and cheaper.



"If you really need a more advanced autofocus system, *or want to adapt eos R full frame lenses*, then wait for that eos R camera. As for native lenses, crop sensor R is still in infancy."


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 16, 2022)

Michael Clark said:


> "If you really need a more advanced autofocus system, *or want to adapt eos R full frame lenses*, then wait for that eos R camera. As for native lenses, crop sensor R is still in infancy."


Context is always important, and you’ve missed it here. The text you are quoting was in reference to a question on whether or not to buy into the M system. The sentence you left off that preceded what you quoted above was, “The safest thing to say right now is, if the m system ticks your boxes, there's no reason not to buy in.”

The reply you’re quoting is based on the fact that it’s not possible to adapt RF lenses to M bodies, and is suggesting that if the person who asked about buying an M6II wanted to adapt FF R lenses that person should instead wait for that R camera [the one that is the subject of this rumor topic]. The implication you missed is that no (practically impossible) adapter would be required in that case. 

In other words, the entire digression on this topic of an adapter was based on your misunderstanding of the context, combined with your insatiable appetite for pedantry.


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## Michael Clark (Oct 17, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> Context is always important, and you’ve missed it here. The text you are quoting was in reference to a question on whether or not to buy into the M system. The sentence you left off that preceded what you quoted above was, “The safest thing to say right now is, if the m system ticks your boxes, there's no reason not to buy in.”
> 
> The reply you’re quoting is based on the fact that it’s not possible to adapt RF lenses to M bodies, and is suggesting that if the person who asked about buying an M6II wanted to adapt FF R lenses that person should instead wait for that R camera [the one that is the subject of this rumor topic]. The implication you missed is that no (practically impossible) adapter would be required in that case.
> 
> In other words, the entire digression on this topic of an adapter was based on your misunderstanding of the context, combined with your insatiable appetite for pedantry.



Perhaps, but if the second sentence of that comment is made in the context of the impossibility of adapting EOS R lenses to EOS-M cameras, doesn't it seem rather odd that a distinction would be made between full frame RF lenses and possible future RF-S lenses? At that point they seem to think that more RF-S lenses will solve the potential buyer's quandary.


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## Michael Clark (Oct 17, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> In other words, the entire digression on this topic of an adapter was based on your misunderstanding of the context, combined with your insatiable appetite for pedantry.



I guess it takes a dog to know a dog.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 17, 2022)

Michael Clark said:


> Perhaps, but if the second sentence of that comment is made in the context of the impossibility of adapting EOS R lenses to EOS-M cameras, doesn't it seem rather odd that a distinction would be made between full frame RF lenses and possible future RF-S lenses? At that point they seem to think that more RF-S lenses will solve the potential buyer's quandary.


Nothing odd. I suspect the point was that the only two available RF-S lenses are either inferior to or optically identical to (18-45mm and 18-150mm, respectively) current EF-M lenses, so there’s no incentive to consider adapting current RF-S lenses to an M body. Thus the qualifier about adapting full frame RF lenses.


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