# Canon Talks Global Shutter and High Dynamic Range



## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 31, 2016)

```
Canon has released a paper for the IDEM conference that shows a multi readout approach that will allow for global shutter and higher dynamic range in future sensor design.</p>
<blockquote><p>Canon researchers will discuss high-resolution, large-format CMOS imaging technology for use in high-performance cameras large enough to take photographs and videos at ultra-high-definition resolution.</p>
<p>The Canon researchers developed a new architecture that enables the readouts of multiple pixels to be accumulated and stored in memory, and then processed all at once. This technique enabled the implementation of a global shutter while also delivering excellent noise and dark current performance and high dynamic range (92dB at a standard 30fps frame rate). <a href="http://www.btbmarketing.com/iedm/">Read more at IEDM</a></p></blockquote>
<p>Back in August, <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-announces-cmos-sensor-with-global-shutter/">Canon announced that they have developed a global shutter</a> equipped CMOS sensor.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


----------



## davidmurray (Oct 31, 2016)

92dB cannot fit in an 8bit jpeg.
92dB is pushing the boundaries of what can fit in a 16bit file.
If Canon releases a 5D5 that can natively capture a clean 92dB of dynamic range between saturation and the noise floor then I would expect to see massive virtually insatiable demand world wide and Canon will once again be the supreme ruler of all cameras.

I'd also expect to see lots of cheap, virtually unsalable older models - including my own 5D3.


----------



## K-amps (Oct 31, 2016)

Looking forward to seeing this in a commercially viable DSLR... very soon.


----------



## danski0224 (Oct 31, 2016)

The 1DsIV must be coming out soon.....



Probably in a kit with a EF 50mm f/1.4 IS


----------



## MintChocs (Oct 31, 2016)

Probably only going to see the light in the high end video stuff, us lower end photogs will get very little whilst we just sit and jump and buy their dregs.


----------



## Mikehit (Oct 31, 2016)

From the original press release:



> Canon will explore various industrial and measurement applications for the newly developed CMOS sensor and consider deploying it in the field of video production for cinema production applications, TV dramas, commercials and more.



In other words, in applications where they are more willing to accept the high cost of such a camera. Coming to DSLRs about...oh, let's say 2022.


----------



## BeenThere (Oct 31, 2016)

Mikehit said:


> From the original press release:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Coming soon to a 6D II near you!


----------



## drmikeinpdx (Oct 31, 2016)

davidmurray said:


> I'd also expect to see lots of cheap, virtually unsalable older models - including my own 5D3.



I'm sure my 5D3 will be thoroughly worn out by then! Best purchase I ever made.


----------



## davidmurray (Oct 31, 2016)

drmikeinpdx said:


> davidmurray said:
> 
> 
> > I'd also expect to see lots of cheap, virtually unsalable older models - including my own 5D3.
> ...



I too am very happy with my 5D3.

It's just that 92dB is massively massively huge dynamic range. It would permanently wipe the smile off the Sony fan-bois.
Such a dynamic range would be difficult if not impossible to print without significant compression of that range.
Much like digital sequencers, synthesizers, and recorders did away with the need to be skillful in playing music and capturing the sound, so too will a 92dB DR camera do away with the need to consider the amount of light on different parts of the subject.


----------



## CanonGuy (Oct 31, 2016)

davidmurray said:


> drmikeinpdx said:
> 
> 
> > davidmurray said:
> ...




You are cute to think that others will just sit back lol. Canon is miles behind DR wise. Let them play the catch up game first lol


----------



## Ozarker (Oct 31, 2016)

CanonGuy said:


> davidmurray said:
> 
> 
> > drmikeinpdx said:
> ...



Don't think they are "way" behind, but you are cute to assume that others will always catch up with the technology.

Besides, business competition is a constant game of oneupmanship. For awhile one company is ahead in DR. Then somebody else. It is cute that you don't seem to understand that. :


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Oct 31, 2016)

Its for a super 35 video camera. This is undoubtedly based on the information in Canon's patent. I've been to many technical conferences and presented at a few. Papers must be submitted to company review before they can be presented, and nothing proprietary ever gets presented.

Large-Format CMOS Imager with Global Shutter for High-Performance Cameras: Canon researchers will discuss high-resolution, large-format CMOS imaging technology for use in high-performance cameras large enough to take photographs and videos at ultra-high-definition resolution.

Most CMOS imagers use a rolling shutter, which captures an image at slightly different times at different areas of the imager. This can lead to image artifacts, especially for moving targets, because the image is taken while the subject is in different positions in the field. Imagers with global shutters capture light from each pixel in the imager at the same time, eliminating these artifacts. However, a global shutter usually leads to less dynamic range and higher noise and dark current, and thus to inferior photographs.

The Canon researchers developed a new architecture that enables the readouts of multiple pixels to be accumulated and stored in memory, and then processed all at once. This technique enabled the implementation of a global shutter while also delivering excellent noise and dark current performance and high dynamic range (92dB at a standard 30fps frame rate).

The images of a vibrating ukulele were taken at the same shutter speed (1/5000 sec.). In the global shutter mode (a) distortion is successfully suppressed, while (b) shows distortion from a rolling shutter. The bottom images show the difference between (a) quadruple charge accumulation with the global shutter and (b) single charge accumulation, both at a 1/90 sec. shutter speed.

(Paper #8.6, “A 1.8e- Temporal Noise Over 90dB Dynamic Range 4k2k Super 35mm Format Seamless Global Shutter CMOS Image Sensor with Multiple-Accumulation Shutter Technology,” K. Kawabata et al, Canon, Inc.)


----------



## jeffa4444 (Oct 31, 2016)

The Sony F55 a Super35 camera uses a global shutter, the F65 uses a global shutter.


----------



## RGF (Nov 1, 2016)

what is a global shutter? how does it differ from other types of shutters? In other words, why is a global shutter important?


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 1, 2016)

RGF said:


> what is a global shutter? how does it differ from other types of shutters? In other words, why is a global shutter important?



Rather than a long dissertation, why not google the term. There are a ton of articles on the internet.


----------



## Don Haines (Nov 1, 2016)

CanonGuy said:


> davidmurray said:
> 
> 
> > drmikeinpdx said:
> ...



93 dB would be 16 stops..... Yes, it is better, but it is not revolutionary better.


----------



## davidmurray (Nov 1, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> CanonGuy said:
> 
> 
> > davidmurray said:
> ...



More like 30 stops - if one stop is a doubling of light.


----------



## LetTheRightLensIn (Nov 1, 2016)

davidmurray said:


> 92dB cannot fit in an 8bit jpeg.
> 92dB is pushing the boundaries of what can fit in a 16bit file.
> If Canon releases a 5D5 that can natively capture a clean 92dB of dynamic range between saturation and the noise floor then I would expect to see massive virtually insatiable demand world wide and Canon will once again be the supreme ruler of all cameras.
> 
> I'd also expect to see lots of cheap, virtually unsalable older models - including my own 5D3.



would be cool but the way they talk about it sounds more like expect it in canon ultra high end tens of thousands of dollars movie cameras or ultra-specialty application cameras and maybe in an EOS DSLR in 20 years

hope I'm wrong and it's in 5DsMkII next spring though  (this the high MP and 6fps min and oversampled, not waxed up, strong low contrat and shadow detail, crisp, 4k video with no rolling and basic video usability features would be pretty sweet)


----------



## IglooEater (Nov 1, 2016)

92 db. Could someone translate that to stops for me? Is that something like 30 stops, or am I waaayy off here?


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Nov 1, 2016)

IglooEater said:


> 92 db. Could someone translate that to stops for me? Is that something like 30 stops, or am I waaayy off here?



Here is the Wikipedia definition, and, as you can see, its as clear as mud. However, 90 DB is clearly not the same as the electrical power definition.

Video and digital imaging

In connection with video and digital image sensors, decibels generally represent ratios of video voltages or digitized light levels, using 20 log of the ratio, even when the represented optical power is directly proportional to the voltage or level, not to its square, as in a CCD imager where response voltage is linear in intensity.[35] Thus, a camera signal-to-noise ratio or dynamic range of 40 dB represents a power ratio of 100:1 between signal power and noise power, not 10,000:1.[36] Sometimes the 20 log ratio definition is applied to electron counts or photon counts directly, which are proportional to intensity without the need to consider whether the voltage response is linear.[37]

However, as mentioned above, the 10 log intensity convention prevails more generally in physical optics, including fiber optics, so the terminology can become murky between the conventions of digital photographic technology and physics. Most commonly, quantities called "dynamic range" or "signal-to-noise" (of the camera) would be specified in 20 log dB, but in related contexts (e.g. attenuation, gain, intensifier SNR, or rejection ratio) the term should be interpreted cautiously, as confusion of the two units can result in very large misunderstandings of the value.

Photographers typically use an alternative base-2 log unit, the stop, to describe light intensity ratios or dynamic range.


----------



## Don Haines (Nov 1, 2016)

davidmurray said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > CanonGuy said:
> ...


If it was a 10log function, then it would be 31 stops, but this is power and for that we use a 20log function and we end up with almost 16 stops.....


----------



## Ozarker (Nov 1, 2016)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> RGF said:
> 
> 
> > what is a global shutter? how does it differ from other types of shutters? In other words, why is a global shutter important?
> ...



Simply put, it means the shutter will function no matter what continent one is standing on. 8)


----------



## IglooEater (Nov 2, 2016)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > 92 db. Could someone translate that to stops for me? Is that something like 30 stops, or am I waaayy off here?
> ...


Thanks Mt Spokane! I guess they don't mention what scale they're using, so we'd have to make a wild guess?


----------



## 3kramd5 (Nov 2, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > RGF said:
> ...



Hah. Zing


----------



## unfocused (Nov 2, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > RGF said:
> ...



Let's not be rude. By definition, if you are on this forum, your time is not that valuable that you can't provide a bit of guidance. I don't understand it, or really care, but there is actually a decent description in the Canon announcement. It has to do with avoiding distortion in fast moving objects, where the object may be in a different spot when the curtain of a focal plane shutter closes, than it was when the curtain opened, thus causing distortion.

As I understand it, it's more of a problem for film than stills.


----------



## RGF (Nov 2, 2016)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > RGF said:
> ...



Does that mean the camera has its own passport?


----------



## KeithBreazeal (Nov 2, 2016)

My 20 year Navy career was anti-submarine warfare. I worked in R&D in the mid-70's and we developed our new aircraft based sonar system that basically did the same thing. It sampled the buoy data and stored every frequency scan for a period of time, could tell noise from actual frequencies, delete the noise, and then render clean sound. It was so perfect that sonar operators listening with headsets actually wanted some white noise added.
This is a brain/audio thing that occurred and it was determined that the brain's audio processing needed a constant input.
The CRT displays showed the perfect clean signals and were used most of the time. 
I had always wondered how long it would take before this concept could be applied to processing image data.
I could envision this technology used in telescopes.


----------



## Don Haines (Nov 2, 2016)

unfocused said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > Mt Spokane Photography said:
> ...


Let me give it a try......

A "normal shutter" reads a line at a time across the sensor, from the top to the bottom. If there is motion (panning) the subject of the panning will be ok, but there will be horizontal motion between scan lines and things in the background that are supposed to be vertical are now angled. 

This happens both in still and video. A global shutter would "lock" all the lines in the sensor at the same time, so when they were read, there would be no relative motion between lines....


----------



## Jack Douglas (Nov 2, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> davidmurray said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



Hmm, as a worn out EE me thinks power is 10log, V and I being 20. Not that it matters. 

Jack


----------

