# Canon’s roadmap for 2019, included an EOS R camera that no one is expecting? [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (May 30, 2019)

> We have been told by a source with a pretty good track record (but not perfect) what we can expect the rest of the way from Canon in 2019.
> First up, it’s not a secret anymore, but we’re going to get the Canon EOS 90D, a camera that will apparently replace both the EOS 80D and the EOS 7D Mark II. With the latter line being killed off by Canon.
> We’re told to expect an announcement near the end of August.
> Apparently, a new EOS M body will come at the same time. It has been described to use as “very well specced” and “aggressively price”, with Canon wanting to show that the EOS M lineup isn’t dead. No specifications were provided to us.
> ...



Continue reading...


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## Ozarker (May 30, 2019)

Interesting times! A fixed lends R? Infrared? Dedicated video R? Cinema R?


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## Adelino (May 30, 2019)

Infrared would be really cool. A fixed lens wouldn't really be an R would it?


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## Quarkcharmed (May 30, 2019)

A head scratcher?


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## matthew_r (May 30, 2019)

Not sure of the technical needs for this, but I'd love to see a larger sensor body that could work with the R lenses? Maybe via an in-body optical converter to increase the image circle? Again, I have no idea if this is physically possible, but a Fuji-type medium format body would be absolutely killer.


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## Tom W (May 30, 2019)

My guess, and it's only a guess - a Canon Rb, a modest upgrade to the R with joystick and dual slots, and other interface tweaks, and some modest improvements to the camera based on customer needs/wants and technological capability.


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## Rivermist (May 30, 2019)

Or an R mount 7D-specced APS-C body with a compact RF-S 15-150mm zoom?


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## Maximilian (May 30, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> A head scratcher?


This rumor is already a head scratcher for me...


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## bellorusso (May 30, 2019)

So far EOS R line is sinking so bad. looks like nothing could save it. Maybe Canon has a plan to keep DSLR afloat for much longer. Beware, Nokia and Motorola, Canon can't wait to join you in the afterlife.


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## unfocused (May 30, 2019)

bellorusso said:


> So far EOS R line is sinking so bad. looks like nothing could save it. Maybe Canon has a plan to keep DSLR afloat for much longer. Beware, Nokia and Motorola, Canon can't wait to join you in the afterlife.


If you are going to troll, as least *try* to be credible. All indications are that the R line is doing just fine.


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## unfocused (May 30, 2019)

I know it's useless to try to tamp down expectations, but remember, a "head scratcher" could mean something that the forum world thinks is ridiculous and is not necessarily something that people on a geek forum think they want.


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## Rivermist (May 30, 2019)

bellorusso said:


> So far EOS R line is sinking so bad. looks like nothing could save it. Maybe Canon has a plan to keep DSLR afloat for much longer. Beware, Nokia and Motorola, Canon can't wait to join you in the afterlife.


Seriously? Have you used an R or RP camera and RF lens in action? What did you find so damning? I love my RP, even with a few shortcomings acceptable at that price point, and on adapter I get superb pictures in often challenging conditions using my EF lenses.


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## Ozarker (May 30, 2019)

Adelino said:


> Infrared would be really cool. A fixed lens wouldn't really be an R would it?


You are right!


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## Ozarker (May 30, 2019)

bellorusso said:


> So far EOS R line is sinking so bad. looks like nothing could save it. Maybe Canon has a plan to keep DSLR afloat for much longer. Beware, Nokia and Motorola, Canon can't wait to join you in the afterlife.


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## LDS (May 30, 2019)

My bet is Canon will experiment with a new format of camera body. Once you removed the optical path lens-mirror-viewfinder, there are new designs to explore that no longer need the classic SLR body.


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## Ozarker (May 30, 2019)

Rivermist said:


> Seriously? Have you used an R or RP camera and RF lens in action? What did you find so damning? I love my RP, even with a few shortcomings acceptable at that price point, and on adapter I get superb pictures in often challenging conditions using my EF lenses.


Nope. He hasn't used it. He has no idea about sales figures either. Sometimes people just like to make things up.


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## bryston (May 30, 2019)

Rivermist said:


> Seriously? Have you used an R or RP camera and RF lens in action? What did you find so damning? I love my RP, even with a few shortcomings acceptable at that price point, and on adapter I get superb pictures in often challenging conditions using my EF lenses.


I love my RP, it's been living with my 85 1.4 IS. It goes with me everywhere.


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## Sharlin (May 30, 2019)

bellorusso said:


> So far EOS R line is sinking so bad. looks like nothing could save it. Maybe Canon has a plan to keep DSLR afloat for much longer.



Genius! All ILCs up till now have been heavier than water, an issue that has proven costly to many a careless photographer. Canon is going to launch a revolutionary (remember, that's what the "R" means!) R body *that literally keeps afloat!*


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## Trey T (May 30, 2019)

unfocused said:


> If you are going to troll, as least *try* to be credible. All indications are that the R line is doing just fine.


Well, let's be honest, this article of rumor mill is a head-scratching narrative. Any rumor is gonna be head-scratching: isnt that sort-of the definition of "rumor"?!?! The author seems to be very desperate of having contents.


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## MaxDiesel (May 30, 2019)

Maybe this patent will find its way to this camera. Huge Tilt LCD

https://www.canonrumors.com/canon-patent-new-rear-screen-concept-for-dslrs/

They also had a patent for a swivel grip which would give it a camcorder feel.


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## wockawocka (May 30, 2019)

Eos Rn, dual cards, + joystick.


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## caffetin (May 30, 2019)

We all talks about r bodies. That's OK. I can afford me an r line up. But don't y think rf lenses are way to expensive. I mean I can't follow the tempo.


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## Jasonmc89 (May 30, 2019)

So confused.

My whole life I’ve looked forward to the next upgrade, or been excited about what I can save up for, but I feel a bit lost now!

What am I saving up for!? ‍


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## slclick (May 30, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> A head scratcher?
> 
> View attachment 184824


I love those but it only really works well if someone else is doing it.


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## unfocused (May 30, 2019)

Jasonmc89 said:


> So confused.
> 
> My whole life I’ve looked forward to the next upgrade, or been excited about what I can save up for, but I feel a bit lost now!
> 
> What am I saving up for!? ‍


Only Canon knows. The one certainty is you better keep saving.


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## Rivermist (May 30, 2019)

wockawocka said:


> Eos Rn, dual cards, + joystick.


As a matter of interest, have you tried the use of the back screen as a touchpad to move the focus point? I find that alternative to be as good as, if not better, than the joystick. On the list of "please Canon", I would add a lock on the mode dial similar to the one on 5Ds, etc.. I use the camera almost exclusively in FV mode and it is annoying that the mode dial can be accidentally moved.


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## Jasonmc89 (May 30, 2019)

unfocused said:


> Only Canon knows. The one certainty is you better keep saving.


True... An 80D is a “big save up” for me though so it’ll be a good few years before I can afford anything R


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 30, 2019)

caffetin said:


> We all talks about r bodies. That's OK. I can afford me an r line up. But don't y think rf lenses are way to expensive. I mean I can't follow the tempo.


Yes, considering that the RP is a entry level FF, there are no entry level zoom lenses to go with it. However, it works great with existing EF and EF-s lenses as well as manual lenses from film cameras. so there are more potential lenses that can be haad for very little $$.
I've yet to justify buying a RF lenses for my R, since it shares lenses with my 5D MK IV.


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## Architect1776 (May 30, 2019)

Jasonmc89 said:


> True... An 80D is a “big save up” for me though so it’ll be a good few years before I can afford anything R



Like you as a mere mortal I have to save for the next toy. I still have a mere 7D but it is doing just fine thank you.
I enjoy watching and dreaming though and I am also saving.
But so far I have not seen a substantial jump in bodies that would demonstrably enhance my ability to take the types of photos I want to.
For me IBIS that works with any old lens back to Canon rangefinder lenses. Excellent low light performance with no noise at high ISOs.
Finally a greater DR would be the definite pull the trigger and pull the savings out but it would need to be 2-3 stops superior to any other camera currently being made or made in the next year.


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## mb66energy (May 30, 2019)

bellorusso said:


> So far EOS R line is sinking so bad. looks like nothing could save it. Maybe Canon has a plan to keep DSLR afloat for much longer. Beware, Nokia and Motorola, Canon can't wait to join you in the afterlife.



So that's the main reason because EOS RP and R are sold at MSRP in germany while other cameras prices are sinking. My understanding of market and prices is a little bit different.


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## mb66energy (May 30, 2019)

EOS RPP with
- plastic mount
- LP-E 12 battery
- 12 MPix FF sensor with DPAF
- no adapter included
- @ 699 $/€
- with RF 50mm 1.8 lens for 100 $ /€ more?

The head scratcher will be the very good high ISO IQ and the 4k with only 1.1x crop.


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## MiJax (May 30, 2019)

My bet is on one of these two, a Full Frame 7D body or the 100 MP high res body they've been playing with for years. IMO, its only a head-scratcher because its a new model, not so much because its revolutionary (even though 100 MP could easily be considered revolutionary).


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## -pekr- (May 30, 2019)

What about XC15 like camera, just with an RF mount? Well, but that would not probably be called R ....


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## venusFivePhotoStudio (May 30, 2019)

Maybe it will be an 120mp camera


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## ArtisanCraft (May 30, 2019)

Head scratcher means it is going to be a camera that people on forums are gonna crucify. Hope the rumour isn't true, Canon images are my favourite but at some point all the negative publicity is going to affect the company... If the rumour is true, it isn't very good news at all


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## Kit. (May 30, 2019)

A nice head scratcher would be a RF mount camera designed primarily for tethering. EOS RP sensor and mainboard + Ethernet in a small box, viewfinder optional, LCD optional, a grip with some buttons optional. Control over CCAPI. Price: $600.

I'd buy two, or maybe even 3.


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## JonSnow (May 30, 2019)

*EOS R camera that no one is expecting?*


a model that is competitive?


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## mpb001 (May 30, 2019)

Above anything else, I would like to see an R series body with IBIS. It is probably coming, but sooner would be better than later.


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## MaxDiesel (May 30, 2019)

mpb001 said:


> Above anything else, I would like to see an R series body with IBIS. It is probably coming, but sooner would be better than later.



That’s pretty much what I’m hoping for, with a low Megapixel count. Wouldn’t say no to that patented flip up lcd.

Thinking of buying an EOS-R now and keeping it as a camera B/backup to whatever new model is introduced... hopefully sometime before September.


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## Jasonmc89 (May 30, 2019)

Architect1776 said:


> Like you as a mere mortal I have to save for the next toy. I still have a mere 7D but it is doing just fine thank you.
> I enjoy watching and dreaming though and I am also saving.
> But so far I have not seen a substantial jump in bodies that would demonstrably enhance my ability to take the types of photos I want to.
> For me IBIS that works with any old lens back to Canon rangefinder lenses. Excellent low light performance with no noise at high ISOs.
> Finally a greater DR would be the definite pull the trigger and pull the savings out but it would need to be 2-3 stops superior to any other camera currently being made or made in the next year.



I hear ya.. the thing I want the most is amazing low light performance as my favourite subjects often live in dull, light deprived jungles. I more often than not crop a final image too so a lower number of bigger pixels isn’t really the way to go for me. If the 90D with it’s rumoured 32mpx sensor or whatever it was is clean up to iso 3200 I’ll be happy with that!


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## NeverPlayMonopoly (May 30, 2019)

Canon Sure Shot _R_


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## dick ranez (May 30, 2019)

How about a form factor change for the body - an R mount on a cube. Canon has a similar start with an entry level video camera (xc-10). It would solve the vertical/horizontal dilemma with a square image (new square sensor perhaps), could offer interchangeable viewfinders (lucrative accessory market) , provide internal space for larger (or multiple) batteries (another option?), utilize the R mount to stimulate lens sales, have a variety of "handle" options and provide some industry innovation Canon seldom gets credit for.


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## criscokkat (May 30, 2019)

Jasonmc89 said:


> I hear ya.. the thing I want the most is amazing low light performance as my favourite subjects often live in dull, light deprived jungles. I more often than not crop a final image too so a lower number of bigger pixels isn’t really the way to go for me. If the 90D with it’s rumoured 32mpx sensor or whatever it was is clean up to iso 3200 I’ll be happy with that!


I'm wondering if the head scratching part of a new R mount might be a body that is essentially the same as the rumored 90d, but with an RF mount and mirrorless. That would be a head scratcher to some but not entirely out of character for Canon. This is the same company that released the 80d followed up by the 77d months later. 

If that happened and I was offered the option I'd skip upgrading to a 90d and buy that hypothetical camera as it would allow me to start aquiring RF lenses.


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## Jasonmc89 (May 30, 2019)

Jasonmc89 said:


> I hear ya.. the thing I want the most is amazing low light performance as my favourite subjects often live in dull, light deprived jungles. I more often than not crop a final image too so a lower number of bigger pixels isn’t really the way to go for me. If the 90D with it’s rumoured 32mpx sensor or whatever it was is clean up to iso 3200 I’ll be happy with that!




(What I need is a 1dx ii and a 400mm f2.8


criscokkat said:


> I'm wondering if the head scratching part of a new R mount might be a body that is essentially the same as the rumored 90d, but with an RF mount and mirrorless. That would be a head scratcher to some but not entirely out of character for Canon. This is the same company that released the 80d followed up by the 77d months later.
> 
> If that happened and I was offered the option I'd skip upgrading to a 90d and buy that hypothetical camera as it would allow me to start aquiring RF lenses.



Good point! Yer, I never understood the 77D either. One thing that mirrorless just couldn’t provide for me, and I’m guessing many others, is the ability to use it as a spotting scope. Think 8 hours or so at a bird nest, waiting for the occupant to poke its beak out. Surely that’d just flatten a mirrorless body’s battery?


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## criscokkat (May 30, 2019)

Jasonmc89 said:


> (What I need is a 1dx ii and a 400mm f2.8
> 
> 
> Good point! Yer, I never understood the 77D either. One thing that mirrorless just couldn’t provide for me, and I’m guessing many others, is the ability to use it as a spotting scope. Think 8 hours or so at a bird nest, waiting for the occupant to poke its beak out. Surely that’d just flatten a mirrorless body’s battery?


Yeah, but a portable power bank would help. However I think you'd run into overheating.


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## Dragon (May 30, 2019)

Sounds like a 90D and an M body with the same new sensor. That makes good economic sense when volumes are down. The M lenses are mostly not fast, but they are ALL nice and sharp and on the DPAF bodies they focus quickly and accurately. If you want a big telephoto, there is no reason not to use the adapter since a native lens wouldn't be materially smaller anyway. A 32 MP APS-C sensor translates to an 82 MP FF sensor at the same pixel pitch and that seems about right for an R replacement for the 5DS series. Sony has focused on low ISO dynamic range. Canon may decide to focus on Megapixels. As a 5DSR owner, I have to say it is a very capable camera, so looking forward to the next generation and that would be the thing that would bring me into the R world.


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## Wy Li (May 30, 2019)

Canon does an RP+ Adds DPAF for 4K, adds back 24fps for 1080p. Prices it between the RP and R.

Why? ... head scratcher! Canon just milking existing technology. And what you expect in a couple months time frame. I wouldn't hold out too much hold in this micro release. Just expect nothing, and you'll be happy.


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## Berowne (May 30, 2019)

I would like to see a Camera optimzed for ergonomics. The viewfinder should be placed in a way, that you need not to bend your nose or stub it against the rear side of the body - usually to the LCD-Screen. The buttons should be placed in a way, that you can change settings without taking the camera from the eye. Grip and release button should be placed at the left side of the camera and all settings at the right side with the possibilty to handle the buttons blindly without looking at them. This would be realy nice.


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## Dantana (May 30, 2019)

So, a body with a tiny, flip out tripod that would let you use it as a...

head scratcher


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## Philrp (May 30, 2019)

Rivermist said:


> Or an R mount 7D-specced APS-C body with a compact RF-S 15-150mm zoom?



I'm thinking Canon is going to do 2 APS-C mirrorless bodies, one with M mount and the other with R mount and see which sells best.

I'd really love an EOS M5 Mark II with R mount to replace my 7DII


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## Adelino (May 30, 2019)

wockawocka said:


> Eos Rn, dual cards, + joystick.


What would be a head scratcher about that?


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## mpb001 (May 30, 2019)

MaxDiesel said:


> That’s pretty much what I’m hoping for, with a low Megapixel count. Wouldn’t say no to that patented flip up lcd.
> 
> Thinking of buying an EOS-R now and keeping it as a camera B/backup to whatever new model is introduced... hopefully sometime before September.


Yes, a lower pixel count with IBIS would be good. I have no interest in a larger pixel count. I use a 5DIV and that is great, but a smaller camera like a R would be nice, but it has to have IBIS for me to bite.


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## jvillain (May 30, 2019)

mb66energy said:


> EOS RPP with
> - plastic mount
> - LP-E 12 battery
> - 12 MPix FF sensor with DPAF
> ...


I think it is this. Some Canon exec is allready on the record as saying there is a cheaper more crippled FF version of the RP comming. You left a zero off the end of the price of the 50 1.8.


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## timmy_650 (May 30, 2019)

It is an Aps-H sensor in a R body, that would be a major head scratcher for me.

Or I guess more likely is a R body with a build in battery grip like the 1D series. That is a replace for the 1Dsmiii line. It is kinda likely bc with the bigger body they will be able to more more heat and have plenty of room for in body IS.


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## slclick (May 30, 2019)

A white Kiss RPK with limited edition matching white RF 50 1.8 STM (Only in Japan)


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## Ozarker (May 30, 2019)

Square sensor that changes the photo orientation at the press of a button... no need for a vertical grip. Also, automatic leveling.  And stills crop mode.


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## Ozarker (May 30, 2019)

slclick said:


> A white Kiss RPK with limited edition matching white RF 50 1.8 STM (Only in Japan)


Unless it is a Hello Kitty Special Edition for my boudoir shoots, I'm out.


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## Josh Leavitt (May 30, 2019)

I thought the high-resolution EOS R was supposed to arrive (or be announced) in late 2019. Did that model get pushed to 2020?


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## prodorshak (May 30, 2019)

criscokkat said:


> I'm wondering if the head scratching part of a new R mount might be a body that is essentially the same as the rumored 90d, but with an RF mount and mirrorless. That would be a head scratcher to some but not entirely out of character for Canon. This is the same company that released the 80d followed up by the 77d months later.
> 
> If that happened and I was offered the option I'd skip upgrading to a 90d and buy that hypothetical camera as it would allow me to start aquiring RF lenses.





Jasonmc89 said:


> (What I need is a 1dx ii and a 400mm f2.8
> 
> 
> Good point! Yer, I never understood the 77D either. One thing that mirrorless just couldn’t provide for me, and I’m guessing many others, is the ability to use it as a spotting scope. Think 8 hours or so at a bird nest, waiting for the occupant to poke its beak out. Surely that’d just flatten a mirrorless body’s battery?



I am a 77D owner. For beginners like me, the budget is really an issue. Even $100 can be a big difference while making a decision for many people (like me). So, I guess giving a spectrum of price choices (80D, T7i, and 77D) with the same sensor (but having difference processors and other features related to usability) allows to cast a wider net to attract more consumers. But, this is not valid for pros for sure.


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## Rixy (May 30, 2019)

90D is my camera!


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## Ozarker (May 30, 2019)

prodorshak said:


> I am a 77D owner. For beginners like me, the budget is really an issue. Even $100 can be a big difference while making a decision for many people (like me). So, I guess giving a spectrum of price choices (80D, T7i, and 77D) with the same sensor (but having difference processors and other features related to usability) allows to cast a wider net to attract more consumers. But, this is not valid for pros for sure.


Yes! Some of us are very price sensitive, including myself. I'll guarantee most professionals are very price sensitive also. https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Professional_Photographer/Salary


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## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (May 30, 2019)

Are you implying that the head scratch would stem from various people wondering why didn't Canon add more, and only do that


bellorusso said:


> So far EOS R line is sinking so bad. looks like nothing could save it. Maybe Canon has a plan to keep DSLR afloat for much longer. Beware, Nokia and Motorola, Canon can't wait to join you in the afterlife.



Considering the damage the EOS R did to Sony's FF mirrorless sales in Japan's market, I'd wager a bigger bet your comment is sinking. Canon took over 20% of the FF mirrorless market there last year. And from all the reviews I've been reading, the EOS R has slightly gained popularity once people figure out its better points.

The RP did pretty good too.



unfocused said:


> If you are going to troll, as least *try* to be credible. All indications are that the R line is doing just fine.



You are correct, that other person's claim almost sank itself.


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## prodorshak (May 30, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Yes! Some of us are very price sensitive, including myself. I'll guarantee most professionals are very price sensitive also. https://www.payscale.com/research/US/Job=Professional_Photographer/Salary


Right. I agree. But professionals will have a better idea about a feature in a camera and whether to invest in it or not. On the other hand, a novice will be reluctant to place a bigger bet because of uncertainty. So, mathematically, the uncertainty of a $100 investment for a beginner is much higher than that for a pro. Hence, a good marketing strategy would be to offer a spectrum of price points at the lower end: Catch 'em early.


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## Ale_F (May 30, 2019)

It's a provocation:

Ome body and one lens. 
Since market is shifting to mirrorless and someone would proAF and shooting without 1dxMk2(3) the 7d3 is coming as:
M7 as mirrorless 7dmk3: Metal, big (for M series), dust resistant and proAF and shooting with the price of APS-C camera. 
Canon added a EOS-M adapter in the package and keep available the new ef-m 15-85 f4IS USM.

With this camera there are not contamination between sensor size between M and R.
The shorter lens I used in the last six month on 7D is the 24-105L and usually is equipped with 70-200, so the EFS lens is useless.


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## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (May 30, 2019)

Trey T said:


> Well, let's be honest, this article of rumor mill is a head-scratching narrative. Any rumor is gonna be head-scratching: isnt that sort-of the definition of "rumor"?!?! The author seems to be very desperate of having contents.



The prediction may be one of the most accurate things that could every be written. No matter what Canon puts into the next "R" body, almost every single person will scratch their head about something that was or was not put into the camera.

I find the rumored comment to be good marketing. It will be stirring people's curiosity for months.


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## prodorshak (May 30, 2019)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> Are you implying that the head scratch would stem from various people wondering why didn't Canon add more, and only do that
> 
> 
> Considering the damage the EOS R did to Sony's FF mirrorless sales in Japan's market, I'd wager a bigger bet your comment is sinking. Canon took over 20% of the FF mirrorless market there last year. And from all the reviews I've been reading, the EOS R has slightly gained popularity once people figure out its better points.
> ...


Canon vs Sony in camera world is like fans of Metallica (Canon) and Megadeth (Sony). While whatever the former makes becomes successful eventually, the latter's more intricate technical stuff doesn't sell that much (compared to former, still, there are a lot of Megadeth fans but that number cannot hold a candle to Metallica's success) .  just for fun. No hurt intended.
*Disclaimer: Slayer (Nikon) and Anthrax (Fuji) fans were unharmed while compiling this post.


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## degos (May 30, 2019)

Kit. said:


> A nice head scratcher would be a RF mount camera designed primarily for tethering. EOS RP sensor and mainboard + Ethernet in a small box, viewfinder optional, LCD optional, a grip with some buttons optional. Control over CCAPI. Price: $600.



Now that's innovative, I like it. Make it so! I suspect that if such a thing emerged, they'd intend it to be primarily phone-tethered, with an app to command it over Bluetooth or whatever. Perhaps even with an adjustable clamp so that you could clip your phone onto the back of it.

On that theme, whatever happened to that Yongnuo flat-camera with EF mount? Imagine an RF mount equivalent from Canon...


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## wockawocka (May 30, 2019)

Rivermist said:


> As a matter of interest, have you tried the use of the back screen as a touchpad to move the focus point? I find that alternative to be as good as, if not better, than the joystick. On the list of "please Canon", I would add a lock on the mode dial similar to the one on 5Ds, etc.. I use the camera almost exclusively in FV mode and it is annoying that the mode dial can be accidentally moved.



I have, it's way too slow for a fast paced scenario like a wedding. I've shot about 20 weddings with it now and I still go back to my 5D4 when using my 24-70 as it's quicker. I shoot them both side by side. The 5D4 is on my left for fast action grabs and the R on my right for F2 and faster apertures due to the focus accuracy.

For me it is definitely not as fast as it could be if it had a joystick. But if I was a landscape, studio or stills photographer it wouldn't bother me. The joystick is direct, unambiguous and less prone to errors. The touch screen falls over easily. Tactile response and feedback is essential, it's why Canon put a little raised bump on top of the 5D4's ISO button and why the lack of tactile feedback on the R's touch bar render it useless (to me).


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## wockawocka (May 30, 2019)

Adelino said:


> What would be a head scratcher about that?



They could of released it that way in the first place


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## slclick (May 30, 2019)

A Leica style Canon FF with either a 28 or 35 fixed might be a head scratcher, it would certainly be a niche product as well. Just don't style it retro and I might be interested.


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## Trey T (May 30, 2019)

M. D. Vaden of Oregon said:


> The prediction may be one of the most accurate things that could every be written. No matter what Canon puts into the next "R" body, almost every single person will scratch their head about something that was or was not put into the camera.
> 
> I find the rumored comment to be good marketing. It will be stirring people's curiosity for months.


THe point was that, only the author of Canon Rumors has the fact, while everybody else's speculations are considered trolling. And I agree with your assessment


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## CanoKnight (May 30, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> [A] new EOS R camera is coming later in 2019 and that it is a “head scratcher”



Running Android OS with Instagram app pre installed ? Of course Canon would never do anything truly innovative or give people something they want or need, so it will probably be a new sensor with 42 MP and the 4k crop area expanding from 1.8x to 1.72x


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## Kit. (May 30, 2019)

CanoKnight said:


> Running Android OS with Instagram app pre installed ?


I don't care about Instagram, but if it runs Android with full Camera2 API support, it will be an interesting camera.


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## Ozarker (May 30, 2019)

prodorshak said:


> Canon vs Sony in camera world is like fans of Metallica (Canon) and Megadeth (Sony). While whatever the former makes becomes successful eventually, the latter's more intricate technical stuff doesn't sell that much (compared to former, still, there are a lot of Megadeth fans but that number cannot hold a candle to Metallica's success) .  just for fun. No hurt intended.
> *Disclaimer: Slayer (Nikon) and Anthrax (Fuji) fans were unharmed while compiling this post.


You forgot: Olympus = ABBA


----------



## Dragon (May 30, 2019)

Josh Leavitt said:


> I thought the high-resolution EOS R was supposed to arrive (or be announced) in late 2019. Did that model get pushed to 2020?


Depending on the source of the opinion, a high resolution body might be considered a "head scratcher", so you won't know until you see it.


----------



## Ozarker (May 30, 2019)

CanoKnight said:


> Running Android OS with Instagram app pre installed ? Of course Canon would never do anything truly innovative or give people something they want or need, so it will probably be a new sensor with 42 MP and the 4k crop area expanding from 1.8x to 1.72x


As a former Android owner and newly minted Apple iPhone owner, I'll take iOS any day.


----------



## CanoKnight (May 30, 2019)

Kit. said:


> I don't care about Instagram



I don't care about it either. But hundreds of thousands / millions do. They travel on vacation, stay at AirBnB's or hotels most of which have wi-fi , and at the end of each day they typically want to upload the day's pics to instagram or other social media sites. If they could do it directly from their camera when they were in a wifi zone instead of downloading to a laptop first it would be of tremendous value. But unlike Apple, Canon, or to be fair most Japanese companies, are not in the business of improving user experience. They are focused on one upping each other with irrelevant technical specs. The user experience is an afterthought. On the other hand if Apple - and I am no fan of Apple - were to design a mirrorless camera you can bet the first things they would be thinking of would be about making users lives easier.


----------



## Tangent (May 30, 2019)

An Astronomy variant? They've had a couple of those, it's been a while.


----------



## amorse (May 30, 2019)

A head scratcher coming shortly? A camera which no-one expects? Where's HarryFilm? - I would have expected some ideas by the 4th page of comments!


----------



## sulla (May 30, 2019)

I would like a square (1:1) sensor, or maybe a circular one, to make use of the complete image circle.


----------



## HarryFilm (May 30, 2019)

amorse said:


> A head scratcher coming shortly? A camera which no-one expects? Where's HarryFilm? - I would have expected some ideas by the 4th page of comments!



---

It's an APS-C sensor with 24 megapixels stills R-style mount in an XC-15 Style body (i.e. a nice side-grip!) with 120 fps 1080p video, 60 fps DCI 4K video with Interframe 10-bit 4:2:2 compression. I've heard on the grapevine the colour science has been improved immensely due to MUCH BETTER noise filters and HAS BOTH the DCT-based JPEG AND JPEG-2000 wavelet-based compressed still files at up-to-full 4:4:4 colour sampling. It will the FIRST of many cameras in this new-format side-grip-style, combined video/stills bodies.

This is understood to be within certain engineering circles the FIRST Canon camera that will be ALLOWED by Canon Management to cannibalize the camcorder line AND their 6D/7D lines. It is said that executives are currently deciding HOW to fold multiple lines together on the midrange and simply push out ALL cameras to being part of either a low-end consumer line or a premium high-end flagship model lineup.

ALL cameras be reduced in terms of the number of available models. The R mount style is to be used on ALL APS-C and FF models from here on in! And right now the rumour mill has it that the 6D/7D line is GONE !!! Kaput! Sayonara! Auf Weidersein! Bye Bye! The M-series and Powershot series ARE BEING LOOKED AT to being merged into a single set of five camera models! The 5D and 1D series will be kept as-is with only a mount change sometime in the future. I should also note that the TRUE head scratcher model is rumoured to be an IP-68 RUGGEDIZED 60 fps 4K video Action Cam larger than a Gopro Hero-7 and WITHOUT the fish-eye look but rather just a wide angle setting at possibly 24mm! It possibly has a 2/3rds inch sensor in it.

That's my info from my Euro sources ... I'm betting the XC-15 style won't be announced until CES-2020 in January and only out for sale AFTER NAB-2020 in April !!!

---

P.S. You should see my 50.3 megapixel TRUE MF-sized sensor combined stills/video camera I'm using right now!

Wait until you what is coming out in terms of NEW and AWESOME camera technology coming out soon enough!

.


----------



## slclick (May 30, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> ---
> 
> It's an APS-C sensor with 24 megapixels stills R-style mount in an XC-15 Style body (i.e. a nice side-grip!) with 120 fps 1080p video, 60 fps DCI 4K video with Interframe 10-bit 4:2:2 compression. I've heard on the grapevine the colour science has been improved immensely due to MUCH BETTER noise filters and HAS BOTH the DCT-based JPEG AND JPEG-2000 wavelet-based compressed still files at up-to-full 4:4:4 colour sampling. It will the FIRST of many cameras in this new-format side-grip-style, combined video/stills bodies.
> 
> ...


Let me translate that for you based upon your track record...


White Hello Kitty (available in Japan only)


----------



## David - Sydney (May 30, 2019)

Tangent said:


> An Astronomy variant? They've had a couple of those, it's been a while.


Yep, that's my guess... continuing on from the 60Da and the 20Da where the IR cut filter is modified to allow Ha light. 60Da allowed about 3x the Ha light through compared to 60D. Also fits with the initial guesses of an IR version. Minimal cost and hits a niche that hasn't been addressed for a long time (since 2015)


----------



## Jasonmc89 (May 30, 2019)

slclick said:


> A Leica style Canon FF with either a 28 or 35 fixed might be a head scratcher, it would certainly be a niche product as well. Just don't style it retro and I might be interested.



A Canonet R perhaps..?


----------



## Jack Douglas (May 31, 2019)

On some trips you're better off without a map!

Jack


----------



## Go Wild (May 31, 2019)

I bet on a new line of mirrorless cameras, the video Line...Although it´s not the Canon´s normal behaviour, but I assume they have changed something int their thoughts about "new markets" aka mirrorless. So...I guess they could want to get in the war of the mirrorless cameras pointed to video to rivalize with A7s line from Sony, Panasonic, etc...

On other hand, i trully believe that the new R line would be arriving at the end of the year and it would be a high megapixel camera. Let´s wait more 4 or 5 months to see!


----------



## pj1974 (May 31, 2019)

Of all the products that Canon could put out, the 3 mentioned in this (CR2) rumour are the ones that interest me most.

EOS R 'pro' camera body - to entice me to the Canon FF mirrorless / RF mount world
EOS 90D DSLR camera body - if it's a worthy upgrade over my Canon 80D (and Canon 7D)
EOS M5mkII APS-C camera body- if it is a worthy upgrade over my Canon M5.

Each of them for different reasons:
- the EOS R "pro" - for ultimate in IQ and AF accuracy) & accessing that amazing AF glass
- the EOS 90D - as an all round camera for most of my 'casual' photography 
- EOS M5mkII - as the handy, convenient low weigh / small size option

Currently I have a decent to good bunch of lenses across these 3 mounts: EF, EF-S and EF-M.
I use the EF(-S) to EF/M adapter for my M5 also. 

It will be interesting what cameras we'll have to consider by the end of 2019 / early 2020! 

PJ


----------



## wsmith96 (May 31, 2019)

Probably the 5ds version of the R.


----------



## TAF (May 31, 2019)

LDS said:


> My bet is Canon will experiment with a new format of camera body. Once you removed the optical path lens-mirror-viewfinder, there are new designs to explore that no longer need the classic SLR body.



This.

I would love to see an EOS R in the form factor of the Rollei SL3003. If it is the same approx price as the R, I would buy this.


----------



## SecureGSM (May 31, 2019)

From an event shooter point of view... Dear Canon can I just ask you to re-she’ll the EOS R into a 5D IV body keeping 2 cards and joystick. 7fps and 50-100-wahatever AF points with a good spread is just fine. Oh, and do not forget an RF mount to be included as a bonus. Here is my cash. Take it!


----------



## knight427 (May 31, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> A head scratcher?
> 
> View attachment 184824



but does it have 2 card slots?


----------



## Quarkcharmed (May 31, 2019)

knight427 said:


> but does it have 2 card slots?


no, but it has an f1 aperture when wide open and can do 20 sps (scratches per second)


----------



## knight427 (May 31, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Interesting times! A fixed lends R? Infrared? Dedicated video R? Cinema R?



My money is on the world's first Full Frame Instant Camera. It will shoot 15 photos per second (achievable with the innovative quad film bay) and is replacing the 7D series . A free pair of Canon scissors will be included for cropping, though they will release an attachable auto-photo-puncher in early 2020 to make cropping more convenient. An additional attachment will be released late 2020 to digitize your instant photos pre or post crop. Canon's specially designed instant photo paper when scanned by Canon's proprietary scanner will yield a 16-bit RAW file. There are no card slots, files will be uploaded to your Canon cloud account (subscription required).


----------



## LSXPhotog (May 31, 2019)

I am eagerly awaiting another EOS-M camera that could possibly replace the M5. The introduction of the 32mm f/1.4 has revealed itself as my dream lens for traveling and general photography. The lens has been so good, I consider it an integral part of my camera bag that I have -surprisingly- begun using in my professional work. It has been insanely fun to use and encouraged be to buy a used M5 until the next M comes out.

These are exciting times in the camera world. As much as Canon is getting shelled on the internet for being behind Sony and other cameras we have to take a step back. There are some great things in the works now that the sleeping and stubborn giant has been awakened. Hopefully the lower income of the comparatively smaller Canon can keep up with Sony or prove their experience in the photography industry can provide them an innovative leg up. Either way, just take photos and keep your head down...it's really insane how divisive our photo community has become over the years.


----------



## -pekr- (May 31, 2019)

Philrp said:


> I'm thinking Canon is going to do 2 APS-C mirrorless bodies, one with M mount and the other with R mount and see which sells best.
> 
> I'd really love an EOS M5 Mark II with R mount to replace my 7DII



You can't have M with an R mount, as it would simply be just - R. Most probably you also don't want an M5 sized body being called a 7DII? Just admit that - all you want is R


----------



## -pekr- (May 31, 2019)

Ale_F said:


> It's a provocation:
> 
> Ome body and one lens.
> Since market is shifting to mirrorless and someone would proAF and shooting without 1dxMk2(3) the 7d3 is coming as:
> ...



Believe me, you don't want a 7DIII in an M form, being cut-off of posible RF lens path upgrade.


----------



## SecureGSM (May 31, 2019)

Quarkcharmed said:


> no, but it has an f1 aperture when wide open and can do 20 sps (scratches per second)



F1 as in Formula 1 racing? Oh, it would need a red badge then to underpin it’s status!


----------



## mb66energy (May 31, 2019)

LSXPhotog said:


> I am eagerly awaiting another EOS-M camera that could possibly replace the M5. The introduction of *the 32mm f/1.4 has revealed itself as my dream lens for traveling and general photography*. The lens has been so good, I consider it an integral part of my camera bag that I have -surprisingly- begun using in my professional work. It has been insanely fun to use and encouraged be to buy a used M5 until the next M comes out.
> 
> These are exciting times in the camera world. As much as Canon is getting shelled on the internet for being behind Sony and other cameras we have to take a step back. There are some great things in the works now that the sleeping and stubborn giant has been awakened. Hopefully the lower income of the comparatively smaller Canon can keep up with Sony or prove their experience in the photography industry can provide them an innovative leg up. *Either way, just take photos and keep your head down..*.it's really insane how divisive our photo community has become over the years.



(blue) Yes, it is a dream lens at non-nightmare cost: It's welded on my M50 most of the time. It's like a swiss knife: Wide aperture for low light WITHOUT sacrificing IQ, it is small and lightweight to keep it with you. And it has the unique (for wide aperture standard FL) 1:4 max. reproduction ratio which avoids changing lenses.

(green) Its like "money is good if you use it to do something, but bad if it's your goal to own as much money as possible" - I myself are fascinated about tech stuff itself but in the last months I often feel a warm wave: "What a great time with affordable really great tools!" And I go out and shoot ...

The only thing I cannot see any strategy in Canon-land supported by confusing releases, naming schemes. But - see green - I have to go out and shoot with what I have and if I feel (or better if I am) limited I have to go back to check what might fit my needs.


----------



## M_S (May 31, 2019)

EOS R with EF mount?


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## DemoBkk (May 31, 2019)

Adelino said:


> Infrared would be really cool. A fixed lens wouldn't really be an R would it?


Maybe an astro Ra


Adelino said:


> Infrared would be really cool. A fixed lens wouldn't really be an R would it?


Yes, maybe an astro Ra (similar to the 6Da) and Breakthrough can make an H-alpha filter for daily use.


----------



## GoldWing (May 31, 2019)

Please Canon.... Give me a MF camera to compete with PhaseOne for 10K. "YOU CAN DO IT!!!


----------



## justaCanonuser (May 31, 2019)

Jasonmc89 said:


> So confused.
> 
> My whole life I’ve looked forward to the next upgrade, or been excited about what I can save up for, but I feel a bit lost now!
> 
> What am I saving up for!? ‍


Buy a good lens, digital cameras are short life-cycle products anyway. If organic electronics would see faster progress, I'd recommend the industry just to sell 3D print data for their latest camera models in future. So you could easily upgrade and deposit your camera.


----------



## jstanley0 (May 31, 2019)

I would buy an EOS Ra for astrophotography. Especially one that has H-alpha sensitivity while still providing useful color for daytime photography. But we’re leaving out the true head-scratcher specification: a 10MP full-frame sensor.

Not only would this provide nice big pixels for good low-light sensitivity, it would allow for full-width native-resolution 4K video. DPAF. No compromise on the AA filter. No moire effects. Insane high-ISO performance for not only framing astrophotos but filming video in near darkness. There’s a synergy here! The astronomer’s camera is also the videographer’s camera.

Take my money, Canon!


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## justaCanonuser (May 31, 2019)

GoldWing said:


> Please Canon.... Give me a MF camera to compete with PhaseOne for 10K. "YOU CAN DO IT!!!


Old discussion and rumors since many years, but it doesn't look like Canon makes a move into the MF market. Too small for them. That said, there are more offerings in MF than Phase One. If you want a real MF beginning with 6x4.5 image size, not those MF crop sensors currently used in those relatively compact Hasselblad and Fuji cameras (or Leica S), you can go for a Pentax 645Z as an affordable system. With such a camera, you have access to this special look in your images that sets MF apart from the 35mm world.


----------



## justaCanonuser (May 31, 2019)

jstanley0 said:


> I would buy an EOS Ra for astrophotography. Especially one that has H-alpha sensitivity while still providing useful color for daytime photography. But we’re leaving out the true head-scratcher specification: a 10MP full-frame sensor.
> 
> Not only would this provide nice big pixels for good low-light sensitivity, it would allow for full-width native-resolution 4K video. DPAF. No compromise on the AA filter. No moire effects. Insane high-ISO performance for not only framing astrophotos but filming video in near darkness. There’s a synergy here! The astronomer’s camera is also the videographer’s camera.
> 
> Take my money, Canon!


Looks like you want a Sony A7S with better ergonomics, AF, and colors, made by Canon. I'd join your club. My wife still uses 12 MP Nikons. She makes A3 prints from those low MP sensors that are impressively so fine detailed - you could easily sell them to people as shot with a 40 MP camera.


----------



## justaCanonuser (May 31, 2019)

dick ranez said:


> How about a form factor change for the body - an R mount on a cube. Canon has a similar start with an entry level video camera (xc-10). It would solve the vertical/horizontal dilemma with a square image (new square sensor perhaps), could offer interchangeable viewfinders (lucrative accessory market) , provide internal space for larger (or multiple) batteries (another option?), utilize the R mount to stimulate lens sales, have a variety of "handle" options and provide some industry innovation Canon seldom gets credit for.


Looking back in history, Canon quite frequently tried such innovative concepts, but unfortunately, most consumers are too conservative to accept new concepts.


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## justaCanonuser (May 31, 2019)

From a 7D2 user's perspective, the question is: will Canon really come up with a crop sensor in the RF mount biotope? Not sure about that. If not, a logical step could be a high resolution FF ML camera with a, say, 24 MP crop mode, connected with an enhanced burst and buffer rate. Highest burst rate of course with full AF and tracking features.


----------



## justaCanonuser (May 31, 2019)

Jasonmc89 said:


> Think 8 hours or so at a bird nest, waiting for the occupant to poke its beak out. Surely that’d just flatten a mirrorless body’s battery?


You nailed it. This is exactly what I tell people why I still prefer DSLRs for wildlife shooting.


----------



## Kit. (May 31, 2019)

CanoKnight said:


> I don't care about it either. But hundreds of thousands / millions do. They travel on vacation, stay at AirBnB's or hotels most of which have wi-fi , and at the end of each day they typically want to upload the day's pics to instagram or other social media sites. If they could do it directly from their camera when they were in a wifi zone instead of downloading to a laptop first it would be of tremendous value.


If you can tether your camera to your smartphone, you don't need to look/wait for WiFi hotspot. You can just use LTE.

But then you can use an app in your phone and don't need an app in your camera.

Canon once had a camera with a Facebook button, though.



CanoKnight said:


> But unlike Apple, Canon, or to be fair most Japanese companies, are not in the business of improving user experience.


I like my user experience with Canon.



CanoKnight said:


> On the other hand if Apple - and I am no fan of Apple - were to design a mirrorless camera you can bet the first things they would be thinking of would be about making users lives easier.


One-button camera?

Apple's "user friendly" caters to the category of users I don't belong.


----------



## peters (May 31, 2019)

Come on canon, please make it a dedicated video camera. 4k fullframe wit DPAF, no disgusting rolling shutter like on the R and RP - and its a done deal


----------



## degos (May 31, 2019)

Kit. said:


> Apple's "user friendly" caters to the category of users I don't belong.



Indeed, it's actually inverted. You have to be a user who is friendly to Apple's One Way of doing something.

I think Canon's UX is fairly good and very consistent. A Rebel user could pick-up a 1D and start shooting without worrying about the boggling permutations of configurations under the surface.

The _only_ thing I don't understand about Canon is the half-press-trigger-to-focus. Why does that exist as a default, instead of being on the AF-ON button? It trips-up newbies who don't understand why the camera is refocusing when they try to recompose.


----------



## Kit. (May 31, 2019)

degos said:


> The _only_ thing I don't understand about Canon is the half-press-trigger-to-focus. Why does that exist as a default, instead of being on the AF-ON button? It trips-up newbies who don't understand why the camera is refocusing when they try to recompose.


Because of the "*" button, which exists even on cameras that lack the "AF-ON" button.

For the last _20 years_, I use it this way (when focus tracking is not needed):
frame for autoexposure,
press Star button,
frame for autofocus,
half-press trigger button,
frame for composition,
shoot.


----------



## Mort (May 31, 2019)

Rivermist said:


> As a matter of interest, have you tried the use of the back screen as a touchpad to move the focus point? I find that alternative to be as good as, if not better, than the joystick. On the list of "please Canon", I would add a lock on the mode dial similar to the one on 5Ds, etc.. I use the camera almost exclusively in FV mode and it is annoying that the mode dial can be accidentally moved.



Are you a left eye shooter or a right eye shooter? I'm a left eye shooter and rented an EOS R for a week. I played with the different configurations of the virtual joystick but no matter what I did, I constantly got false positives with my nose, which caused the focus point to jump to the corner. It was terribly annoying and honestly a deal breaker for me. The rest of the camera is fine, but I NEED a joystick if my camera has more than just a few focus points. I've used the 5Div too and having that joystick made going through all of its points a breeze. Same with my friend's A7iii. My 6D doesn't have enough points to worry itself, so a joystick on that is pointless. 

Basically, I haven't found the screen solution to be a great replacement to a true physical joystick. (On a side note, I was impressed the screen pad worked with gloves in freezing conditions...)


----------



## jeanluc (May 31, 2019)

wsmith96 said:


> Probably the 5ds version of the R.


I hope so. I feel a high MP body would be well received by quite a few of us.


----------



## Graphic.Artifacts (May 31, 2019)

justaCanonuser said:


> Old discussion and rumors since many years, but it doesn't look like Canon makes a move into the MF market. Too small for them. That said, there are more offerings in MF than Phase One. If you want a real MF beginning with 6x4.5 image size, not those MF crop sensors currently used in those relatively compact Hasselblad and Fuji cameras (or Leica S), you can go for a Pentax 645Z as an affordable system. With such a camera, you have access to this special look in your images that sets MF apart from the 35mm world.


The Pentax 645Z is not 6x4.5. It's 44x33. The same size, and actually the same sensor, as the Hasselblad X1D and Fuji GFX 50's. 

Which, of course, is the same sensor size and sensor used by several current Phase one and Hasslblad H6D cameras. Cameras which those companies had no trouble marketing as "medium format" until they had some actual competition in the space.


----------



## Rivermist (May 31, 2019)

Mort said:


> Are you a left eye shooter or a right eye shooter? I'm a left eye shooter and rented an EOS R for a week. I played with the different configurations of the virtual joystick but no matter what I did, I constantly got false positives with my nose, which caused the focus point to jump to the corner. It was terribly annoying and honestly a deal breaker for me. The rest of the camera is fine, but I NEED a joystick if my camera has more than just a few focus points. I've used the 5Div too and having that joystick made going through all of its points a breeze. Same with my friend's A7iii. My 6D doesn't have enough points to worry itself, so a joystick on that is pointless.
> 
> Basically, I haven't found the screen solution to be a great replacement to a true physical joystick. (On a side note, I was impressed the screen pad worked with gloves in freezing conditions...)


I understand, indeed the feature is only really functional for right-eye shooters. Another neat feature is the ability to allocate a button to reset the focus point to center screen.


----------



## bokehmon22 (May 31, 2019)

Tom W said:


> My guess, and it's only a guess - a Canon Rb, a modest upgrade to the R with joystick and dual slots, and other interface tweaks, and some modest improvements to the camera based on customer needs/wants and technological capability.


That's not a head scratcher though. It's a logical upgrade


----------



## victorshikhman (May 31, 2019)

Jasonmc89 said:


> True... An 80D is a “big save up” for me though so it’ll be a good few years before I can afford anything R



I picked up an 80D myself, refurb from canon, during the 15% off friends and family sale last Feb. It's a great camera with plenty of features and I fully expect to use it for at least 3 years. Don't fall for GAS. People were making incredible photographs with a lot less. Unless you make your living from photography, you're not missing out.


----------



## Jasonmc89 (May 31, 2019)

victorshikhman said:


> I picked up an 80D myself, refurb from canon, during the 15% off friends and family sale last Feb. It's a great camera with plenty of features and I fully expect to use it for at least 3 years. Don't fall for GAS. People were making incredible photographs with a lot less. Unless you make your living from photography, you're not missing out.



I agree, I love my 80D. It was a huge improvement over the 70D in my opinion. Went on pretty much the same trip to Costa Rica first with the 70, then with the 80 and this years photos are vastly better! All down to the shadow recovery ability. The thing I want the most is lenses though of course! As far as bodies go, 80D equivalent level is more than good enough for me.


----------



## kaswindell (May 31, 2019)

justaCanonuser said:


> Old discussion and rumors since many years, but it doesn't look like Canon makes a move into the MF market. Too small for them. That said, there are more offerings in MF than Phase One. If you want a real MF beginning with 6x4.5 image size, not those MF crop sensors currently used in those relatively compact Hasselblad and Fuji cameras (or Leica S), you can go for a Pentax 645Z as an affordable system. With such a camera, you have access to this special look in your images that sets MF apart from the 35mm world.



Unfortunately, the 645Z has the same MF crop sensor used in the Fujis and Hasselblad X1D - you have to go really expensive to get the 6x4.5 (ish) sensors:
Hasselblad H6D-400c: 100MP 53.4 x 40.0mm CMOS Sensor https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...013775_h6d_400c_multi_shot_medium_format.html
vs.
Pentax 645Z: 51.4MP CMOS Sensor - 43.8 x 32.8 mm https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1045517-REG/pentax_16599_645z_digital_slr_camera.html
Fuji GFX 50S: 51.4MP 43.8 x 32.9mm CMOS Sensor https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1283336-REG/fujifilm_gfx_50s_medium_format.html
Hasselblad X1D: 50MP 43.8 x 32.9mm CMOS Sensor https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/co...A=details&Q=&sku=1260272&is=REG&fromDisList=y - interestingly, this one is marked as "discontinued" - perhaps there is something new coming from Hasselblad in the low-cost MF space?


----------



## MadisonMike (May 31, 2019)

justaCanonuser said:


> You nailed it. This is exactly what I tell people why I still prefer DSLRs for wildlife shooting.


Obviously you have not used a Sony with the newer Z battery. I get all day on my Sony battery, FF mirrorless. Actively Shoot 1200 shots during a game, with IBS and lens OS running and still have over 50% battery remaining, seriously over 50%. Add a grip and now you have 2 batteries I could shoot for days. This is not an exaggeration, it is reality. I am not a Sony fanboy, I just moved where the technology that meets my needs is. I will always have s soft spot for Canon, my first SLR was a T-50, its where I learned about photography. Kind of why I still come to this site. I want to see what Canon does next.


----------



## dvelez111 (May 31, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


in other words 
canon EOS RX speed EOS RS resolution AND EOS R7 IS IN THE WORKS IM ASUMING THIS IS THE MOST LOGICALY EVOLUTION (Revolution)


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (May 31, 2019)

DemoBkk said:


> Maybe an astro Ra
> 
> Yes, maybe an astro Ra (similar to the 6Da) and Breakthrough can make an H-alpha filter for daily use.


That was my first thought. Cheap and easy to do, probably a modified RP. I think Canon wants to push out huge numbers of the RP's.


----------



## Dantana (May 31, 2019)

Some very interesting ideas from everyone, though the description of a "head scratcher" doesn't fit most of them for me. A lot of them are some nice wish list cameras. When I think "head scratcher" as far as a release goes, I think of either something that's so close to what they have already put out that it makes little sense to be a thing, or something that seems kind of ridiculous.

Whoever mentioned slotting a model between the R and RP would fit the first category. 

Not sure what I would think of as ridiculous any more. Maybe a gold plated R promoted by a Vegas DJ.

Or, maybe I'm overthinking the "head scratcher" angle.


----------



## cellomaster27 (May 31, 2019)

Take this with sarcasm but something that no one is expecting.. I'm going to assume the worst. haha I think ever since joining the forum, there hasn't been too many revolutionary cameras since the 5D3 and M5 imo. RF is really neat but in it's infancy. I'm just going to expect nothing. It's pretty clear that Canon isn't interested in offering 4K like some of us would like to see. This isn't the higher end body either so..


----------



## Kit. (May 31, 2019)

Dantana said:


> Not sure what I would think of as ridiculous any more.


Canon Zoemini R.


----------



## edoorn (May 31, 2019)

Then again, it’s just a rumor, not a given


----------



## CanoKnight (May 31, 2019)

Kit. said:


> If you can tether your camera to your smartphone, you don't need to look/wait for WiFi hotspot. You can just use LTE.
> 
> But then you can use an app in your phone and don't need an app in your camera.



I can speak for the tethering ability of my 7D- II. It's a DISASTER. For people who enjoy spinning dials and fumbling through menus it could have been pleasurable but even then half the time it doesn't connect. It's not what I want to do when I am traveling. The Panasonic S1 which I have had for several weeks is worlds better but still requires juggling multiple devices and diving through menus.

In a well thought out device the UX should be clean and free of menu jail. For example if the camera app is running in the background on my phone and my phone is in the vicinity of the camera when it's turned on, a dialog could pop up on my phone asking if I want to connect. If I say yes , the next screen should display all the photos on my card. Just skip all the intermediate steps. But of course it isn't implemented like that - not on my 7d2 ; not on the S1. Copy this from here, copy that from there. Scan this. Scan that. Go through menus. And finally see the pics on your card if you are lucky. That's why I brought up the Apple example. Apple understands User Experience (UX). They know what a user intends to do and they take the user there in the quickest , least cumbersome way.

Better yet would be to skip the phone altogether and to go straight to the app on the camera, if there were one. Camera CEO's complain about phones taking away their business. Perhaps they should be asking why that is the case. Could it be because phones offer a vastly better user experience than cameras ? Like click a photo and share it within seconds. If they focused more on such things over improving their DR by a quarter of an EV or adding 10 more MP to their sensors maybe they would sell a lot more cameras.


----------



## justaCanonuser (May 31, 2019)

MadisonMike said:


> Obviously you have not used a Sony with the newer Z battery. I get all day on my Sony battery, FF mirrorless. Actively Shoot 1200 shots during a game, with IBS and lens OS running and still have over 50% battery remaining, seriously over 50%. Add a grip and now you have 2 batteries I could shoot for days. This is not an exaggeration, it is reality. I am not a Sony fanboy, I just moved where the technology that meets my needs is. I will always have s soft spot for Canon, my first SLR was a T-50, its where I learned about photography. Kind of why I still come to this site. I want to see what Canon does next.


No, that's true. I played with different Sony A7 models some years ago because I was quite excited about Sony's innovative drive. But I didn't like the ergonomics and the EVFs then - which have massively improved now. I also prefer to shoot stills, not video, otherwise I would have definitely changed to Sony. I am fully aware that the time of digital mirror slappers is nearly over now, and I will not miss them if ML technology is mature enough (including fast electronic shutters). Especially for birding (not my only interest) I simply need a camera with which I can track, with a 500+ mm tele lens, a fast flying bird and get decent in-focus results. Birds are much more a challenge for the AF system than sports, because contrasts and contours are often softer. Until now, a good DSLRs does this job quite well, so I didn't want to change the gear which I know will serve me. 

In fact, for me, digital photography is mature when good light-field cameras are available,providing the ability to re-focus and change the depth of field by post-processing, no need for any AF system anymore. But that's still a dream...

My first camera was a Kodak Retina IIIc, already vintage then, got it refurbished some years ago. Later I changed to a Nikon FM-2. Both fully manual cameras trained my skills the hard way


----------



## justaCanonuser (May 31, 2019)

kaswindell said:


> Unfortunately, the 645Z has the same MF crop sensor used in the Fujis and Hasselblad X1D - you have to go really expensive to get the 6x4.5 (ish) sensors:
> Hasselblad H6D-400c: 100MP 53.4 x 40.0mm CMOS Sensor https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/prod...013775_h6d_400c_multi_shot_medium_format.html
> vs.
> Pentax 645Z: 51.4MP CMOS Sensor - 43.8 x 32.8 mm https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1045517-REG/pentax_16599_645z_digital_slr_camera.html
> ...


Ah, thanks. I always thought that the digital Pentax is true 60mm x 45mm ... yes I read that the Hassi X1D is discontinued, too.

Well, when I want MF I do it like you, I grab my Mamiya, shoot film, develop it and scan it with a film scanner.


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## justaCanonuser (May 31, 2019)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> The Pentax 645Z is not 6x4.5. It's 44x33. The same size, and actually the same sensor, as the Hasselblad X1D and Fuji GFX 50's.
> 
> Which, of course, is the same sensor size and sensor used by several current Phase one and Hasslblad H6D cameras. Cameras which those companies had no trouble marketing as "medium format" until they had some actual competition in the space.


Yes, thanks for correcting me, I always thought the Pentax 645Z is true 645. Well, making big bug free sensors is still extremely expensive I guess.


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## Graphic.Artifacts (May 31, 2019)

justaCanonuser said:


> Yes, thanks for correcting me, I always thought the Pentax 645Z is true 645. Well, making big bug free sensors is still extremely expensive I guess.


Understandable given the name. I guess they were trying to capitalize on the name recognition and lens mount of their film 6x4.5 system.

I like my Mamiya film cameras and still use them occasionally but there is no way in the world that even my best 70mm film images could compete with the resolution and color fidelity of the new large sensor cameras being released. Luckily for my budget I don't really need that kind of IQ.

Personally I wouldn't get to hung up on the "real" medium format thing. That Fujifilm GFX 100 and the soon to be announced Hasselblad 102MP X1D are going to be show-stoppers for IQ. Fighting about what to call them is just misdirection from the IQ.


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## BillB (May 31, 2019)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Yes, considering that the RP is a entry level FF, there are no entry level zoom lenses to go with it. However, it works great with existing EF and EF-s lenses as well as manual lenses from film cameras. so there are more potential lenses that can be haad for very little $$.
> I've yet to justify buying a RF lenses for my R, since it shares lenses with my 5D MK IV.


Some places are selling the RP bundled with the EF 24-105 f3.5-5.6 and the RF 24-105 f4 has been about $900, about as little as you are going to pay for a f4 24-105. As you say, there are other less expensive choices as well


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## HarryFilm (May 31, 2019)

slclick said:


> Let me translate that for you based upon your track record...
> 
> 
> White Hello Kitty (available in Japan only)



---

Out of 200 or so predictions, I've gotten ONE RIGHT (i.e. Canon C700) !!! That is a 0.5% hit rate which A LOT BETTER than the lottery! 

To me Canon's NEXT cameras are:

XC-15 style body with 24 megapixel stills/4K 60 fps 4:2:2 video on APS-C sensor in my opinion! Announcement in January with Sales in June!

AND

an Action Cam 4K with 24mm lens NOT a fisheye! Announcement AT ANY TIME from today until January 2020
.
a 1/200 hit rate on rumours gotten right actually ain't that bad from a STATISTICAL point of view!
.


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## Ozarker (May 31, 2019)

CanoKnight said:


> I don't care about it either. But hundreds of thousands / millions do. They travel on vacation, stay at AirBnB's or hotels most of which have wi-fi , and at the end of each day they typically want to upload the day's pics to instagram or other social media sites. If they could do it directly from their camera when they were in a wifi zone instead of downloading to a laptop first it would be of tremendous value. But unlike Apple, Canon, or to be fair most Japanese companies, are not in the business of improving user experience. They are focused on one upping each other with irrelevant technical specs. The user experience is an afterthought. On the other hand if Apple - and I am no fan of Apple - were to design a mirrorless camera you can bet the first things they would be thinking of would be about making users lives easier.


Don't know about that. I find the user experience with my Japanese products to be very nice. Probably why Japanese products are highly sought after, including Kobe beef.  I don't want to care about Instagram, unfortunately, I have to. I've yet to find an app that will allow me to upload photos to Instagram from my PC or laptop. I have to send the photos to my Dropbox first, then upload them to my phone for Instagram.


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## Dantana (Jun 1, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Don't know about that. I find the user experience with my Japanese products to be very nice. Probably why Japanese products are highly sought after, including Kobe beef.  I don't want to care about Instagram, unfortunately, I have to. I've yet to find an app that will allow me to upload photos to Instagram from my PC or laptop. I have to send the photos to my Dropbox first, then upload them to my phone for Instagram.



I used this method for a while. Sometimes you have to refresh your browser for the + button to appear:
https://www.tomango.co.uk/thinks/post-to-instagram-desktop-chrome-pc-mac/ 

Now I have a Surface which lets me post straight through the app, since Instagram sees it has a camera. I know, weird.


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## Stuart (Jun 1, 2019)

An astro version - scratch scratch?


----------



## Ozarker (Jun 1, 2019)

HarryFilm said:


> ---
> 
> Out of 200 or so predictions, I've gotten ONE RIGHT (i.e. Canon C700) !!! That is a 0.5% hit rate which A LOT BETTER than the lottery!
> .


Less accurate than a broken clock.


----------



## SecureGSM (Jun 1, 2019)

kaswindell said:


> ....
> 
> Fuji GFX 50S: 51.4MP 43.8 x 32.9mm CMOS Sensor https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1283336-REG/fujifilm_gfx_50s_medium_format.html
> Hasselblad X1D: 50MP 43.8 x 32.9mm CMOS Sensor https://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/co...A=details&Q=&sku=1260272&is=REG&fromDisList=y - *interestingly, this one is marked as "discontinued" - perhaps there is something new coming from Hasselblad in the low-cost MF space?*



https://photorumors.com/2019/05/28/...ra-registered-with-another-government-agency/


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## jcfalconer (Jun 1, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Interesting times! A fixed lends R? Infrared? Dedicated video R? Cinema R?


I think you might be on to something with the video or cinema R. Perhaps a body with only a medium resolution (eg. 24 megapixel) sensor but is capable of uncropped 4K resolution video which so many folks seem to be yearning for. Unfortunately, I am not one of them.


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## Ozarker (Jun 1, 2019)

jcfalconer said:


> I think you might be on to something with the video or cinema R. Perhaps a body with only a medium resolution (eg. 24 megapixel) sensor but is capable of uncropped 4K resolution video which so many folks seem to be yearning for. Unfortunately, I am not one of them.


Yeah, I'm not into video either.


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## degos (Jun 1, 2019)

CanoKnight said:


> Could it be because phones offer a vastly better user experience than cameras ?



What?! Touchscreen phones have possibly the worst UX ever released.

Zero discoverability; arcane gestures; hunt and peck grids of app icons; hamburger menus filled with jumbled entries; keyboards unusuable in rain; complete opacity when something doesn't work; unscriptable UI; configuration buried five menus deep; the list goes on. Oh, and the trainwreck that is Bluetooth pairing.

Just think about the actions required to take a photo on a smartphone versus a DSLR.

Anyhow my hope for a head-scratcher would be a modern version of the 1980s EOS M, stripped to the bones as a pure photographic camera. No video, no IBIS, no frills, no modes other than M and bulb.


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## Pape (Jun 1, 2019)

I been thinking this unexpected R camera . Sorry if my post is overoptimistic ,i know you like more about doom posts 
New R is 64mpixel sport camera, with sister sensor of that one 64 what patended earlier but they hided true performance.
Uncropped 4k and 8k video with max 3min record time with 15min cooldown and youtube button when camera plugged to net.
fun for youtubers but not stealing real video camera sales 
Makes sense why 120mpixel high resolution R got postponed then . No sense release both same time.
Better make peoples buy first 64 mpixel and half year later 120mpixel.


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## Kit. (Jun 1, 2019)

CanoKnight said:


> I can speak for the tethering ability of my 7D- II. It's a DISASTER. For people who enjoy spinning dials and fumbling through menus it could have been pleasurable but even then half the time it doesn't connect. It's not what I want to do when I am traveling. The Panasonic S1 which I have had for several weeks is worlds better but still requires juggling multiple devices and diving through menus.
> 
> In a well thought out device the UX should be clean and free of menu jail. For example if the camera app is running in the background on my phone and my phone is in the vicinity of the camera when it's turned on, a dialog could pop up on my phone asking if I want to connect. If I say yes , the next screen should display all the photos on my card.


Wait... are you saying that your ideal app would annoy me with popups every time I carry a camera with me? And when I try to use it, it throws the hundreds of gigabytes of photos into my face?



CanoKnight said:


> That's why I brought up the Apple example. Apple understands User Experience (UX). They know what a user intends to do and they take the user there in the quickest , least cumbersome way.


Apple knows that a big percentage of users needs help with _deciding what they intend to do_, because they cannot decide that on their own.

But today, these users don't use dedicated cameras, except as a status symbol. Their iPhones are good enough for them.



CanoKnight said:


> Better yet would be to skip the phone altogether and to go straight to the app on the camera, if there were one. Camera CEO's complain about phones taking away their business. Perhaps they should be asking why that is the case. Could it be because phones offer a vastly better user experience than cameras ? Like click a photo and share it within seconds.


Nah, unless you want to share unsharp photos or are only shooting wide-angle in bright daylight.

The only two good bits of user experience with phones for taking photos are:

A phone is (almost) always with you anyway.
A phone is (almost) always connected to the network.

The rest is crap.


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## AntlerstoPeaks (Jun 1, 2019)

How long from announcement are new cameras usually available? I have a big trip coming up at the end of September and would love to try out the 90d as my backup camera.


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## BillB (Jun 1, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> OK, half the ideas here are pretty obvious ones, so they're not "head-scratchers."
> 
> Others (fixed lens high quality?) simply aren't R system.
> 
> ...


A monochrome camera would definitely be a head scratcher for me. At this point an R camera without IBIS and a second card slot would be a head scratcher for me as well. After putting out two models with a single card slot, there are people who will grab anything with two card slots, especially if it has IBIS.


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## slclick (Jun 1, 2019)

SwissFrank said:


> OK, half the ideas here are pretty obvious ones, so they're not "head-scratchers."
> 
> Others (fixed lens high quality?) simply aren't R system.
> 
> ...


I'll be happy to see a Canon monochrome. This has me wondering just what an EVF could be like for a b/w camera. IBIS may be nice and a built in ND filter? Could be my next camera since selling a kidney for the Leica M Monochrom isn't on my todo list.


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## masterpix (Jun 1, 2019)

It is an interesting times, but unfortunately, also brings a lot of opportunity for changes and shifting brands. If once you had Nikon F mount, you were unlikely to change to Canon EF mount because then you needed to replace your lenses. Many people kept "loyalty" to the brand because they could not afford to change their lenses every now and then. However, now when both Canon and Mikon changing their mount, and the fact the mirrorless design means that there is a lot of extra room to fill between the camera and the lens, there is room for lens-less adapters which allows people to use virtually any lens on the new mirrorless body. People have a unique opportunity to change body brand, and stick to the new mount in the future. This is a time when camera makers need to "hold to their customers" as much as possible, and not try to "move them" away from their brand. Not giving a clear road map, and abandoning a very popular body line is, in my view, not the way to keep your customers.Canon kept producing the EOS-1 for over ten years since the digital era took over (with the 1D), so why "push" their customers to an APS-C R mirrorless?


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## TAF (Jun 1, 2019)

M_S said:


> EOS R with EF mount?



That would indeed be a head scratcher.

But plausible, and easy to execute.


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## Ozarker (Jun 1, 2019)

slclick said:


> I'll be happy to see a Canon monochrome. This has me wondering just what an EVF could be like for a b/w camera. IBIS may be nice and a built in ND filter? Could be my next camera since selling a kidney for the Leica M Monochrom isn't on my todo list.


I could go for a dedicated monochrome stills camera.


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## Ozarker (Jun 1, 2019)

masterpix said:


> It is an interesting times, but unfortunately, also brings a lot of opportunity for changes and shifting brands. If once you had Nikon F mount, you were unlikely to change to Canon EF mount because then you needed to replace your lenses. Many people kept "loyalty" to the brand because they could not afford to change their lenses every now and then. However, now when both Canon and Mikon changing their mount, and the fact the mirrorless design means that there is a lot of extra room to fill between the camera and the lens, there is room for lens-less adapters which allows people to use virtually any lens on the new mirrorless body. People have a unique opportunity to change body brand, and stick to the new mount in the future. This is a time when camera makers need to "hold to their customers" as much as possible, and not try to "move them" away from their brand. Not giving a clear road map, and abandoning a very popular body line is, in my view, not the way to keep your customers.Canon kept producing the EOS-1 for over ten years since the digital era took over (with the 1D), so why "push" their customers to an APS-C R mirrorless?


Let's not forget: The biggest hurdle is attracting new customers to take up ILC cameras (affluent younger people who might have had their interest stimulated via their phones and never heard of FD mount etc.), not so much holding on to people who have already bought in (older people with money who die off everyday or just quit buying due to advanced age). First time adopters to a camera system is what is needed, and that is exactly the group that is shrinking thanks, among other things, to low birth rates compared to the boomers who were sired by the earlier generations. In twenty years it is likely the largest portion of this forum membership will be dead and our gear on the Antiques Road Show as curiosities. Depressing. Mentors needed.  It would be very interesting to get an age breakdown of the forum membership here, wouldn't it? Betcha we are all mostly over 40. I'm 56 (1963), so right on the tail end of the baby boom. I've one child. My mother and her mother both had 5. My siblings have: 0, 2, 2, and 4. So we aren't replacing ourselves.  The big growth will be in the developing world. Our whole hobby is niche.


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## st jack photography (Jun 1, 2019)

Troll Rant #428
I am still waiting on the full frame body that had a sexy genius solution that didnt require adapters? Remember that quote? I am mystified ppl are buying the r and rp. Are you that bored or wealthy? Wow. I had mine a week (R) and sent it back. It's junk, a turd. Waiting on the 5dsr m2 at this point, to see how bad they blunder that one, because recent developments since the R dropped indicates that yes, indeed, they will blunder it. And people will lick that dogpuke up.
A head-scratcher? Expect to be wildly underwhelmed. I mean, they just canceled the 7d. How stupid. So what piece of underwhelming non-video capable market-segmented crap will they come out with? Probably a mirrorless lite, with 1fps, using a 5 year old DLSR sensor, yet again, with 3 desired features added BUT 20 crucial mid-level features removed. There will be clear indications of innovative patents with absolutely no follow through on the actual market.
Gosh, I use to be so in love with my 5d, 5dIII, and now my 5DSr and my L lenses, but now I strongly dislike Canon, and I feel betrayed by them, and I feel stuck with a bunch of expensive obsolete lenses. Adapters, my *$$. I may as well get a competitor body and use an adapter of theirs with my L lenses, because Canon seems pretty clueless to me. Mainly I just come on here to 1) troll the fanboys 2) see what other companies are doing, like zeiss zx1, leica q2, fuji MF, panasonic full frame, and 3) hope for a repeat miracle of the 1987 EOS EF innovation that put everyone 20 years behind. What happened to that company, Canon? Bring that company back.
Basically, I want the EOS 1987 of today; if I am going to spend about $40k on a body and full RF lens system, then it better come with a vengeance like the 1987 EOS system, and I JUST DO NOT SEE THEM AS COMPARABLE. 
Still, they are no Nikon. I mean, imagine the delusion set you have to carry around to buy into the Z. Wow. And I thought I felt stupid for pre-buying an R. Or imagine seeing the flange diameters of the z and RF and considering the tiny eensy E-mount on the Sony. You would have to combine all 3 brands to cherry-pick a decently-featured stills camera. This is pathetic, considering the cameras cost between $1500 and $5000 or so, depending.
Most of these camera companies are idiots anyway by cramming video and stills together. Why can't people see that when you do this, nobody truly wins?Video guys lose, stills guy loses. (Anytime I ever shot video, I rented a c300 or equivalent at the time. Right tool for the right job.) A stills camera built JUST FOR stills would always be a better camera than these do-it-alls consumers demand today. Yet I have never seen an affordable stills-only camera. (e.g. a still camera that had a blistering 100fps burst of 100mp RAW). How about a camera that shoots a SQUARE or a CIRCLE, thereby using the absolute best part of the lens glass optics instead of an idiotic long rectangle at 3:2 ratio? Why am I such a bad person for wanting these things in a multi-thousand dollar camera?


----------



## Otara (Jun 1, 2019)

Headscratcher to me generally means 'why did they do this', which most guesses dont seem to really fit.

To be honest, with not even a hint what it could be, I dont put much stock in it.


----------



## SaP34US (Jun 1, 2019)

Maybe it's a Mirorless FF with no video features with huge fps for photos to be kitted with both the 35mm 1.8 and the to be released 24-24mm 4.0-6.3 for 2400/w extintion grip or body only w/extintion grip for 1500.


----------



## BillB (Jun 1, 2019)

Otara said:


> Headscratcher to me generally means 'why did they do this', which most guesses dont seem to really fit.
> 
> To be honest, with not even a hint what it could be, I dont put much stock in it.


Well, it's managed to keep this thread going for a while


----------



## archiea (Jun 1, 2019)

Niche R? Lets see. Whats niche now? The 50 mp high rez 5Ds/r.

Couple that with 3K+ RF “studio” lenses that were released? Plus canon’s commercial and studio customers?

I guess it would be a high rez 50mp R with ibs!

Ibs takes care of the 5Dr/s c high rez cam shake issue.

Eye focus good for studio shoot.

Wifi tethering.

I believe folks think this is unexpected since a 5D level R was expected. Instead of a wedding cam, this will be a studio cam.

A 5D version of an R will need a lot of speed improvement and I believe canon isn’t there yet with raw processing. Look at how the R has to swap features like level turning off in order to do eye focus.

I think a studio level R can be achieved with a refinement of the R: 50mp large dynamic range sensor with IBS, improved Eye detect, dual or multicore processors (like the fuji x-t3), 4 million pixel evf, built in intravelometer.

I think it would help cement the R line with studio and commercial pros and push that high end glass, which is cheaper still than med format!


----------



## Refurb7 (Jun 1, 2019)

st jack photography said:


> Troll Rant #428
> I am still waiting on the full frame body that had a sexy genius solution that didnt require adapters? Remember that quote? I am mystified ppl are buying the r and rp. Are you that bored or wealthy? Wow. I had mine a week (R) and sent it back. It's junk, a turd. Waiting on the 5dsr m2 at this point, to see how bad they blunder that one, because recent developments since the R dropped indicates that yes, indeed, they will blunder it. And people will lick that dogpuke up.
> A head-scratcher? Expect to be wildly underwhelmed. I mean, they just canceled the 7d. How stupid. So what piece of underwhelming non-video capable market-segmented crap will they come out with? Probably a mirrorless lite, with 1fps, using a 5 year old DLSR sensor, yet again, with 3 desired features added BUT 20 crucial mid-level features removed. There will be clear indications of innovative patents with absolutely no follow through on the actual market.
> Gosh, I use to be so in love with my 5d, 5dIII, and now my 5DSr and my L lenses, but now I strongly dislike Canon, and I feel betrayed by them, and I feel stuck with a bunch of expensive obsolete lenses. Adapters, my *$$. I may as well get a competitor body and use an adapter of theirs with my L lenses, because Canon seems pretty clueless to me. Mainly I just come on here to 1) troll the fanboys 2) see what other companies are doing, like zeiss zx1, leica q2, fuji MF, panasonic full frame, and 3) hope for a repeat miracle of the 1987 EOS EF innovation that put everyone 20 years behind. What happened to that company, Canon? Bring that company back.
> ...


That is appropriately titled as a troll rant. I have no idea what your problems with any cameras are. I did gather, however, you feel that many people are idiots.


----------



## Ozarker (Jun 2, 2019)

st jack photography said:


> Troll Rant #428
> I am still waiting on the full frame body that had a sexy genius solution that didnt require adapters? Remember that quote? I am mystified ppl are buying the r and rp. Are you that bored or wealthy? Wow. I had mine a week (R) and sent it back. It's junk, a turd. Waiting on the 5dsr m2 at this point, to see how bad they blunder that one, because recent developments since the R dropped indicates that yes, indeed, they will blunder it. And people will lick that dogpuke up.
> A head-scratcher? Expect to be wildly underwhelmed. I mean, they just canceled the 7d. How stupid. So what piece of underwhelming non-video capable market-segmented crap will they come out with? Probably a mirrorless lite, with 1fps, using a 5 year old DLSR sensor, yet again, with 3 desired features added BUT 20 crucial mid-level features removed. There will be clear indications of innovative patents with absolutely no follow through on the actual market.
> Gosh, I use to be so in love with my 5d, 5dIII, and now my 5DSr and my L lenses, but now I strongly dislike Canon, and I feel betrayed by them, and I feel stuck with a bunch of expensive obsolete lenses. Adapters, my *$$. I may as well get a competitor body and use an adapter of theirs with my L lenses, because Canon seems pretty clueless to me. Mainly I just come on here to 1) troll the fanboys 2) see what other companies are doing, like zeiss zx1, leica q2, fuji MF, panasonic full frame, and 3) hope for a repeat miracle of the 1987 EOS EF innovation that put everyone 20 years behind. What happened to that company, Canon? Bring that company back.
> ...


Don't think Canon ever said, "A sexy solution that doesn't require adapters." Canon said, "Elegant" I believe. Never said no adapters. Seems the solution is seamless and elegant, to me, with zero loss of IQ. Your lenses aren't obsolete. If you think so, you can mail them to me.  I'll take those obsolete and worthless lenses. I'll even pay shipping. $20 sound okay?


----------



## Jethro (Jun 2, 2019)

AntlerstoPeaks said:


> How long from announcement are new cameras usually available? I have a big trip coming up at the end of September and would love to try out the 90d as my backup camera.


Typically a month or two - and who knows exactly when the official announcement will be? I think you'll be struggling to get one in your hand before the end of September. What you might get before then are some really nice discounts on the existing 7Dii and/or 80D *if *the rumours firm up. Depends what you're looking for as a back-up camera as to whether a deep discounted version of these would do?


----------



## slclick (Jun 2, 2019)

Jethro said:


> Typically a month or two - and who knows exactly when the official announcement will be? I think you'll be struggling to get one in your hand before the end of September. What you might get before then are some really nice discounts on the existing 7Dii and/or 80D *if *the rumours firm up. Depends what you're looking for as a back-up camera as to whether a deep discounted version of these would do?


As it's been said many times before...rent.


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## masterpix (Jun 2, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Let's not forget: The biggest hurdle is attracting new customers to take up ILC cameras (affluent younger people who might have had their interest stimulated via their phones and never heard of FD mount etc.), not so much holding on to people who have already bought in (older people with money who die off everyday or just quit buying due to advanced age). First time adopters to a camera system is what is needed, and that is exactly the group that is shrinking thanks, among other things, to low birth rates compared to the boomers who were sired by the earlier generations. In twenty years it is likely the largest portion of this forum membership will be dead and our gear on the Antiques Road Show as curiosities. Depressing. Mentors needed.  It would be very interesting to get an age breakdown of the forum membership here, wouldn't it? Betcha we are all mostly over 40. I'm 56 (1963), so right on the tail end of the baby boom. I've one child. My mother and her mother both had 5. My siblings have: 0, 2, 2, and 4. So we aren't replacing ourselves.  The big growth will be in the developing world. Our whole hobby is niche.


Interesting point, however, the developing world will mostly focus on cell-phone cameras and those instant-online apps for their photography. To attract them you need a cheap, light and smaller as possible cameras. But we already seen that the point and shoot were the first to suffer from the cell-phones (as better they were and still are - sensor and lens wise).


----------



## Jethro (Jun 2, 2019)

slclick said:


> As it's been said many times before...rent.


Normally perhaps - but tough in this case when his question was about the likelihood of getting one in his hands before the end of September.


----------



## M. D. Vaden of Oregon (Jun 2, 2019)

SaP34US said:


> Maybe it's a Mirorless FF with no video features with huge fps for photos to be kitted with both the 35mm 1.8 and the to be released 24-24mm 4.0-6.3 for 2400/w extintion grip or body only w/extintion grip for 1500.



Man .. I would love a "R" with two slots and no video features.


----------



## Han (Jun 2, 2019)

An EF mount adapter with built in leafshutter.


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## Han (Jun 2, 2019)

Flash synchronisation at 1/500. I would be willing to pay 1000 euro’s for this option!


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## Kit. (Jun 2, 2019)

Han said:


> An EF mount adapter with built in leafshutter.


A leaf shutter not located at the proper position inside the lens (where the diaphragm is) will cause vignetting.


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## privatebydesign (Jun 2, 2019)

Han said:


> Flash synchronisation at 1/500. I would be willing to pay 1000 euro’s for this option!


Always interested in comments like this. Specifically what for and what flashes would you hope to use at that speed?


----------



## Evuhljeenyus (Jun 2, 2019)

Hmm, maybe an "R-f" retrostyled Rangefinder styled R mount body with a plain Tiltscreen screen, not fully articulated, with an ovf/evf, and joystick. The current RP is practically flat on the top midplate, all they need to do is shift it to the left and call it a different model. A head scratcher, but I would buy it and slap the 35/1.8 RF on it and call it a day. They could even bundle the two together and sell it the hipster kit.


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## Evuhljeenyus (Jun 2, 2019)

dick ranez said:


> How about a form factor change for the body - an R mount on a cube. Canon has a similar start with an entry level video camera (xc-10). It would solve the vertical/horizontal dilemma with a square image (new square sensor perhaps), could offer interchangeable viewfinders (lucrative accessory market) , provide internal space for larger (or multiple) batteries (another option?), utilize the R mount to stimulate lens sales, have a variety of "handle" options and provide some industry innovation Canon seldom gets credit for.


I could see third party accessory companies making Rubik cube silicon cases or even Lego styled accessories.


----------



## caffetin (Jun 2, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Nope. He hasn't used it. He has no idea about sales figures either. Sometimes people just like to make things up.


To be honest, nikon and sony has wrily bad sensors. I mean images are yellowish. Everybody try to show us on YouTube "look dr how bad is on Canon iven for something what you can not see on printed pictures". Canon and fuji(shadow's) has the best colour write from the cameras. But negative campaigns are stronger. Everything else is just software. So man stop talking about r is shrinking. Maybe Canon must think of very hight rf lenses cost. AND IF YOU WANT 4K,8K,100K Video, go to shop and buy a camcorder. We are talking about pure photography.


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## canonnews (Jun 2, 2019)

One thing that I didn't see mentioned that I just thought of may be that Canon may try to do with the RP that they did with the m5 and M6. remove the EVF and make it as small as possible (and as cheap).


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## Pape (Jun 2, 2019)

canonnews said:


> One thing that I didn't see mentioned that I just thought of may be that Canon may try to do with the RP that they did with the m5 and M6. remove the EVF and make it as small as possible (and as cheap).


i would do other way ,remove lcd and put viewfinder to top ,sensor more back. viewfinder is lot smaller than lcd


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## canonnews (Jun 2, 2019)

Pape said:


> i would do other way ,remove lcd and put viewfinder to top ,sensor more back. viewfinder is lot smaller than lcd


that would be annoying AF.

I can't see that happening, but would certainly be a head scratcher.


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## Pape (Jun 2, 2019)

yep 5cm thick R camera 28mm pancake kit could be suprice


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## Tangent (Jun 2, 2019)

canonnews said:


> One thing that I didn't see mentioned that I just thought of may be that Canon may try to do with the RP that they did with the m5 and M6. remove the EVF and make it as small as possible (and as cheap).



The M6 approach would also make sense for an astro version. No need for the EVF.


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## Jester74 (Jun 2, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> Always interested in comments like this. Specifically what for and what flashes would you hope to use at that speed?


For fill-flash with studio strobes. Probably


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## Bob Howland (Jun 2, 2019)

canonnews said:


> One thing that I didn't see mentioned that I just thought of may be that Canon may try to do with the RP that they did with the m5 and M6. remove the EVF and make it as small as possible (and as cheap).


That's actually makes sense, although they might need something comparable to the 15-45 M kit lens to go with it.


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## slclick (Jun 2, 2019)

Tangent said:


> The M6 approach would also make sense for an astro version. No need for the EVF.


You might be onto something here! The R series travel body. No EVF, same sensor, RP battery, small grip, M5 style back. Not for me but I could easily see Canon doing this over many of our conjectures. I believe mine (monochrome is too far out there)


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## Han (Jun 2, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> Always interested in comments like this. Specifically what for and what flashes would you hope to use at that speed?


I don’t like HSS. HSS makes strobes heavy and expensive. An optional leafshutter may be expensive but very verstatile.


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## masterpix (Jun 2, 2019)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


Left handed camera? Left handed people are about 10% of the population.


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## PK3Photo (Jun 2, 2019)

Tom W said:


> My guess, and it's only a guess - a Canon Rb, a modest upgrade to the R with joystick and dual slots, and other interface tweaks, and some modest improvements to the camera based on customer needs/wants and technological capability.


I’ve used the R with touchscreen for months after years of the joystick. So done with the joystick! Good riddance!


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## cpsico (Jun 2, 2019)

All new RF mount cameras need to be a home run, I have to buy expensive native mount lenses for the best experience why stay with canon?


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## peters (Jun 2, 2019)

canonnews said:


> One thing that I didn't see mentioned that I just thought of may be that Canon may try to do with the RP that they did with the m5 and M6. remove the EVF and make it as small as possible (and as cheap).


That would be super great! Especialy with the upcoming quite small lenses this would be a great package.
Imagine Canon 5d IV Image-quality (maybe a bit improved) in a body thats just a little bit bigger than a m6. And than an ultra compact 35mm or 50mm pancake f2 or something. That would be awesome for travel. I totaly love the 5d IV but its quite some size and weight for longer trips...


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## amorse (Jun 2, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Don't think Canon ever said, "A sexy solution that doesn't require adapters." Canon said, "Elegant" I believe. Never said no adapters. Seems the solution is seamless and elegant, to me, with zero loss of IQ. Your lenses aren't obsolete. If you think so, you can mail them to me.  I'll take those obsolete and worthless lenses. I'll even pay shipping. $20 sound okay?


I thought using that empty space in the adapter for filters was quite elegant, myself. Creating an adapter with a control ring so an EF lens can be operated as an RF seemed quite elegant as well. Too bad neither of those things count as innovation. Canon never innovates, you know.


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## sanj (Jun 3, 2019)

Pro body PLEASE.


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## luiskp (Jun 3, 2019)

A "Rebel-kiss" R?


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## navastronia (Jun 3, 2019)

sanj said:


> Pro body PLEASE.



Although this rumor would in no way indicate that, since a pro body is what we're all clamoring for. This rumor indicates something weird (and potentially off putting) is on the way.


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## slclick (Jun 3, 2019)

Then there's right eyed vs left eyed....


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## TAF (Jun 3, 2019)

jstanley0 said:


> I would buy an EOS Ra for astrophotography. Especially one that has H-alpha sensitivity while still providing useful color for daytime photography. But we’re leaving out the true head-scratcher specification: a 10MP full-frame sensor.
> 
> Not only would this provide nice big pixels for good low-light sensitivity, it would allow for full-width native-resolution 4K video. DPAF. No compromise on the AA filter. No moire effects. Insane high-ISO performance for not only framing astrophotos but filming video in near darkness. There’s a synergy here! The astronomer’s camera is also the videographer’s camera.
> 
> Take my money, Canon!



Completely clean at 102k iso, and useable at iso 4million, yeah, I would consider that.


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## jtf (Jun 3, 2019)

masterpix said:


> Left handed camera? Left handed people are about 10% of the population.



As a left handed, left eyed Canon SLR user since '75 I don't think I could adapt to a left handed camera.


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## jtf (Jun 3, 2019)

PK3Photo said:


> I’ve used the R with touchscreen for months after years of the joystick. So done with the joystick! Good riddance!



I picked up an M5 last year as a walk around and got used to touch screen focusing pretty quickly. The R is a even easier because of the larger size.


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## jtf (Jun 3, 2019)

Just my opinion on the EOS R ergonomics. I'm left handed, left eyed, and 6'4". I have no issues with the touch screen focusing. I have yet to refocus with my nose. I have yet to accidentally turn on the function bar with my larger than average hands. I love the customability of the buttons. I have the 3 buttons on the top right back set up for back button focus, return to center focus and focus square adjustment with the dials. So my thumb is usually hanging around the AF ON or the touch screen. 

I'm not interested in a head scratcher camera at this point. Canon Rumors has already mentioned a sports oriented R is probably coming in 2020. That's what I'm looking for to replace my aging 7D.


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## TiCTOC (Jun 3, 2019)

"head scratcher" will be some specialized macro camera to utilize the "undisclosed dedicated macro lens which will be a “first of its kind macro lens”. Like the specialized MPE-65 but in a dedicated EOS R setup


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## Sean C (Jun 3, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> Always interested in comments like this. Specifically what for and what flashes would you hope to use at that speed?


Outdoors, to get the sunlit areas to -1 stop or so. Transistor controled (SCR) strobes have a short flash duration at low power so it can work. At high shutter speeds you don't need anywhere near the flash power you'd need at low shutter speeds to get the same result. If you can get into the range of battery strobes then much less gear needs to be brought!


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## Pape (Jun 3, 2019)

Canon could make showoff camera powershot G9 sized R ILC with medium format sensor  good spare camera
Now if LCD is away ,back wall and sensor together could be 0,5cm thick +2cm flange distance 2,5cm body thickness.
28 mm pancace lense would be like 3cm? ,now lens mount could have in retreating screw construction what makes it 1cm shorter when power off so over all thickness 4,5cm.
Wievfinder should be placed left corner then nose would be free left side of camera and no back construction needed.
Look sony full frame camera and you see how sensor is stuffed inside mount not any space wasted .
If canon stuffs sensor like sony it would be 4cm x 2,9cm sensor ,so medium format 
If only single shot camera no needing space taking computer stuff so much.


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## Sean C (Jun 3, 2019)

Evuhljeenyus said:


> Hmm, maybe an "R-f" retrostyled Rangefinder styled R mount body with a plain Tiltscreen screen, not fully articulated, with an ovf/evf, and joystick. The current RP is practically flat on the top midplate, all they need to do is shift it to the left and call it a different model.


I'd love to have the viewfinder all the way to the left like a rangefinder, dammit! There is no prism, so no reason it can't be on the side so my nose has somewhere to be! If they want 'traditional' styling, the R should be rangefinder styling not SLR... they look that way because the prism/mirror box require it not because it's better in some other way.


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## masterpix (Jun 3, 2019)

jtf said:


> As a left handed, left eyed Canon SLR user since '75 I don't think I could adapt to a left handed camera.



The title said "a camera no one expect", I think no one really expect a left handed camera body. I don't remember any company ever doing something like that.


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## deleteme (Jun 3, 2019)

privatebydesign said:


> Always interested in comments like this. Specifically what for and what flashes would you hope to use at that speed?


One could use any flash. I would be delighted to sync at larger apertures in bright sun. Flash fill is a beautiful thing.


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## SecureGSM (Jun 3, 2019)

Normalnorm said:


> One could use any flash. I would be delighted to sync at larger apertures in bright sun. Flash fill is a beautiful thing.


Yup, my impression though that PBD was referring to a lack of flash units strobes currently available that are capable of syncing at 1/500 sec speed that’s HSS apart. I may be mistaken as never researched that matter. I am pretty sure current Godox units are not 1/500 sec sync speed capable. This likely can be addressed in a future.


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## edoorn (Jun 3, 2019)

how about an R with joystick and 2 card slots - bet no one is expecting that!


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## Lukas Haupt (Jun 3, 2019)

edoorn said:


> how about an R with joystick and 2 card slots - bet no one is expecting that!


I think it would pissed all R owners, include me.


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## edoorn (Jun 3, 2019)

why would it piss you off? If you're happy with the R then great! Myself, I'd get two R bodies if it would be able to act as a mirrorless 5D4 pro camera. For me that means 2 cardslots, and a much better and improved user interface of the camera. It's very obvious the R has a lot going for it, but also that it is a first gen full frame mirrorless and not at all perfect.

Ditch the multi touch bar, make the button placement better (that af on button burried in the grip is a grave mistake) and give us a joystick to quickly select a certain set of af points. The touch AF can stay of course, but there is a reason many people are requesting to bring this back.

I am quite happy though that they didn't come out with a higher end R as a first attempt; it means user feedback can be used to make the first 'real' pro R a better camera.


----------



## jtf (Jun 3, 2019)

masterpix said:


> The title said "a camera no one expect", I think no one really expect a left handed camera body. I don't remember any company ever doing something like that.



Sorry that my comment came across the way it apparently did. I wasn't criticizing your suggestion of a left handed camera as being a "head scratcher" I meant it more as even though I'm left handed, I've been using a camera with my right hand for so long I'm not sure I could adjust to a lefty camera even if it is my dominant hand.


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## criscokkat (Jun 3, 2019)

If we are throwing out wild rumors we could always resurrect an old one. Today at Apple's big event they will announce their acquisition of Canon. The apple iCamera R.


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## BurningPlatform (Jun 3, 2019)

Head scratcher in the meaning "why on earth did they do that":

A camera with no displays at all, only to be used remotely via Bluetooth or WiFi.
A drone camera.
A camera with a rotating body, for selfie shooters, specifically.
A camera with a separate back-facing selfie camera.
Head scratcher in the meaning "wow, how on earth could they do that?":

Just factor current top specs by two.
A range finder type camera with optical/hybrid viewfinder (with probably a limited zoom range for optical view).


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## flip314 (Jun 3, 2019)

edoorn said:


> how about an R with joystick and 2 card slots - bet no one is expecting that!



What about 2 joysticks and 1 card slot?


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## Pape (Jun 3, 2019)

flip314 said:


> What about 2 joysticks and 1 card slot?


Or they could add two dimension to touchbar and it would be touch square for moving ef point.
Could then turn lcd off most of situations. EVF rocks


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## TAF (Jun 4, 2019)

Sean C said:


> I'd love to have the viewfinder all the way to the left like a rangefinder, dammit! There is no prism, so no reason it can't be on the side so my nose has somewhere to be! If they want 'traditional' styling, the R should be rangefinder styling not SLR... they look that way because the prism/mirror box require it not because it's better in some other way.



Something like this might happen. Last summer (or the one before?) I was wandering around Mystic Seaport, and I saw a photographer with a Canon that 'doesn't exist'. It looked very much like a 1950's rangefinder body (the top hump went most of the way across - I don't think it was offset, but it was a quick glance), and the camera had a 70-200 F4 on it and looked appropriately sized.

That was what I expected the R to look like when was introduced. I was surprised it didn't. Maybe that will be the next model (hopefully?).

I was with the family so I couldn't turn around and talk to him...


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## scyrene (Jun 4, 2019)

TAF said:


> Completely clean at 102k iso, and useable at iso 4million, yeah, I would consider that.



Physically impossible, but okay...


----------



## scottsworld (Jun 5, 2019)

After 10 years, I'm about to buy a new camera (old 550D died last year), and thus I have been researching cameras... on... youTube. (where else)  Anyway... this brings me to know for certain what the new camera is. 
~ Canon R*V *
*V* for *VLOG**!* Specs = blah, blah, megapixels, dials, battery (_who cares_), because in our self-obsessed world where Gen-Ys are about to be 'discovered' and become youTube 'stars', the specs that matter and will SELL SELL SELL (plus save Canon) are simply these:- 

4k 
4K super duper mega slow motion
flip out screen on a long arm with built in 'selfie' lights 
3 card slots (heaven forbid 2 cards fail, and your Vlog footage is lost for eternity!) 
Huge battery (+ 2 batteries in the optional grip), so your important views on life/the world are never cut off
did I mention, 4K already?


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## ArtisanCraft (Jun 6, 2019)

To be honest, instead of giving a DAMN about video features, just give us a decent continuous shooting speed. 8 fps with live view and af/ae. Remove the useless cropped 4K completely. Then we wouldn't complain because it is clearly a PHOTOGRAPHY camera with optional 1080p video. Instead they include HALF ARSED pixel binned cropped 4K and continuous shoointg at 3ps. 3FPS!?!?!? what a joke. so annoying honestly. really growing to hate Canon. played with a Z6 the other day and being able to see how fast it shoots just made me feel bad. All the while providing all the other features too. I don't even care about those features (FF 4K, IBIS), but my EOS R which was hanging around my neck doesn't OFFER EITHER, and then ALSO ONLY DOES 3FPS. 

sigh, sad thing is I am probably going to give up and sell my canon gear this Saturday. this headscratcher is the final straw, because I am quite sure it is a "head-scratcher" in a negative sense. and Canon gives no choice because there's no doubt this EOS R will devalue so quickly because of the allround crappy feature set. 3fps... Until you actually try it you don't realise how damn slow that is. Not even a photography camera.... If only it were. I don't want 4K video. I just want a GOOD PHOTOGRAPHY CAMERA. but Canon prefer to give you crippled photo AND video, instead of focusing on perfecting one of the two aspects.

No R-sized Z6/7 equivalent in sight (small, portable but still great IQ). Next is this "head-scratcher". And after will probably be a pro R, which I assume will be BIG and therefore not an option for someone looking for a portable kit. So my hands are tied, need to move system to get what I need. Not sure why I am forced into this position. Why does Canon do this?


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## pmjm (Jun 7, 2019)

If the EOS 80D replacement shoots 4K60 I'll buy it in a heartbeat, but I'm not holding my breath.


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## TAF (Jun 8, 2019)

scyrene said:


> Physically impossible, but okay...



Now why do you say that?

The ME20F-SH isn't too far from achieving those goals, and it is 4 years old already.

Perhaps it is impossible at 30mp, but why not a low res R with extreme low light capability?

It would be an unusual product, to be sure.


----------



## rbielefeld (Jun 8, 2019)

justaCanonuser said:


> No, that's true. I played with different Sony A7 models some years ago because I was quite excited about Sony's innovative drive. But I didn't like the ergonomics and the EVFs then - which have massively improved now. I also prefer to shoot stills, not video, otherwise I would have definitely changed to Sony. I am fully aware that the time of digital mirror slappers is nearly over now, and I will not miss them if ML technology is mature enough (including fast electronic shutters). Especially for birding (not my only interest) I simply need a camera with which I can track, with a 500+ mm tele lens, a fast flying bird and get decent in-focus results. Birds are much more a challenge for the AF system than sports, because contrasts and contours are often softer. Until now, a good DSLRs does this job quite well, so I didn't want to change the gear which I know will serve me.
> 
> In fact, for me, digital photography is mature when good light-field cameras are available,providing the ability to re-focus and change the depth of field by post-processing, no need for any AF system anymore. But that's still a dream...
> 
> My first camera was a Kodak Retina IIIc, already vintage then, got it refurbished some years ago. Later I changed to a Nikon FM-2. Both fully manual cameras trained my skills the hard way


I have been testing the Sony a9 versus my 1DxII. I am using the Sony a9 with my Canon glass (600mm f/4 IS II and 100-400mm IS II, with and without 1.4x teleconverters). I am using the Sigma MC-11 adapter. You might want to try it out. The a9 AF system is quite amazing and once it locks on to a bird it does not want to let go. I get more series of all tack-sharp images with the Sony than with the 1DxII as the 1DxII tends to give me sharp and a bit soft images intermixed as the AI Sero AF micro-adjusts during a long burst series. Moreover, the a9 EVF has no blackout what so ever. It is actually easier to follow a bird in flight while shooting with the a9 then with the 1DxII and its fast flipping mirror. There are of course limitations when using adapted glass, but for me it has been an interesting, and to this point, successful test. I do not at all like the Sony's ergonomics as compared to the 1DxII, but it is something I can deal with. Everyone is different in what they need and like, and you may not like the performance, but if what you need is simply a camera which you can track, with a 500+mm lens, a fast flying bird and get decent in-focus results, this combo will do it. Attached file all taken with the Sony a9 and adapted Canon 600mm f/4 IS II + 1.4x TC hand held.


----------



## Kit. (Jun 8, 2019)

TAF said:


> Now why do you say that?
> 
> The ME20F-SH isn't too far from achieving those goals, and it is 4 years old already.


Was there any change in the physics of light in the last 4 years?



TAF said:


> Perhaps it is impossible at 30mp, but why not a low res R with extreme low light capability?
> 
> It would be an unusual product, to be sure.


Sure, just don't expect to get 4k video from a two-megapixel sensor.


----------



## SaP34US (Jun 8, 2019)

Two questions
Is the 4k video pixel binned or not?
What is 3ps does mean 3FPS?


----------



## Ozarker (Jun 9, 2019)

Normalnorm said:


> One could use any flash. I would be delighted to sync at larger apertures in bright sun. Flash fill is a beautiful thing.


Couldn't you throw on an ND filter? Or maybe I misunderstand.


----------



## Ozarker (Jun 9, 2019)

rbielefeld said:


> I have been testing the Sony a9 versus my 1DxII. I am using the Sony a9 with my Canon glass (600mm f/4 IS II and 100-400mm IS II, with and without 1.4x teleconverters). I am using the Sigma MC-11 adapter. You might want to try it out. The a9 AF system is quite amazing and once it locks on to a bird it does not want to let go. I get more series of all tack-sharp images with the Sony than with the 1DxII as the 1DxII tends to give me sharp and a bit soft images intermixed as the AI Sero AF micro-adjusts during a long burst series. Moreover, the a9 EVF has no blackout what so ever. It is actually easier to follow a bird in flight while shooting with the a9 then with the 1DxII and its fast flipping mirror. There are of course limitations when using adapted glass, but for me it has been an interesting, and to this point, successful test. I do not at all like the Sony's ergonomics as compared to the 1DxII, but it is something I can deal with. Everyone is different in what they need and like, and you may not like the performance, but if what you need is simply a camera which you can track, with a 500+mm lens, a fast flying bird and get decent in-focus results, this combo will do it. Attached file all taken with the Sony a9 and adapted Canon 600mm f/4 IS II + 1.4x TC hand held.
> View attachment 184990
> View attachment 184991
> View attachment 184993


Gorgeous photos!


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## digigal (Jun 9, 2019)

rbielefeld said:


> I have been testing the Sony a9 versus my 1DxII. I am using the Sony a9 with my Canon glass (600mm f/4 IS II and 100-400mm IS II, with and without 1.4x teleconverters). I am using the Sigma MC-11 adapter. You might want to try it out. The a9 AF system is quite amazing and once it locks on to a bird it does not want to let go. I get more series of all tack-sharp images with the Sony than with the 1DxII as the 1DxII tends to give me sharp and a bit soft images intermixed as the AI Sero AF micro-adjusts during a long burst series. Moreover, the a9 EVF has no blackout what so ever. It is actually easier to follow a bird in flight while shooting with the a9 then with the 1DxII and its fast flipping mirror. There are of course limitations when using adapted glass, but for me it has been an interesting, and to this point, successful test. I do not at all like the Sony's ergonomics as compared to the 1DxII, but it is something I can deal with. Everyone is different in what they need and like, and you may not like the performance, but if what you need is simply a camera which you can track, with a 500+mm lens, a fast flying bird and get decent in-focus results, this combo will do it. Attached file all taken with the Sony a9 and adapted Canon 600mm f/4 IS II + 1.4x TC hand held



That is exactly the same thing many of the wildlife shooters in my camera club have found and a significant number of our Canon group has switched to Sony over the past couple of years. I know of multiple professional wildlife photographers that now include Sony in their kit with Canon and, in fact, it seems most now are rarely shooting with Canon as their sole camera. 
Beautiful Snail Kites and I love the dancing Grebes.


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## SecureGSM (Jun 9, 2019)

I was wondering if weather protection / seals of Sony A9 are any good in comparison with Canon 1D series cameras? Just being curious here,. not switching to Sony system anytime soon.


----------



## Kit. (Jun 9, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Couldn't you throw on an ND filter?


If you can place an ND filter over the Sun, but not over the flash, then yes.

But normally - no.


----------



## SecureGSM (Jun 9, 2019)

Kit. said:


> If you can place an ND filter over the Sun, but not over the flash, then yes.
> 
> But normally - no.



*GND16 | 4 Stop *

https://nisifilters.com.au/docs/a-g...ilters-gnd/what-strength-of-gnd-should-i-use/


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## rbielefeld (Jun 9, 2019)

SecureGSM said:


> I was wondering if weather protection / seals of Sony A9 are any good in comparison with Canon 1D series cameras? Just being curious here,. not switching to Sony system anytime soon.


No, the weather sealing on the a9 is not up to the 1D series level; especially on the bottom of the body from what I have researched. I use a storm jacket on all my cameras when the weather is bad, so I am thinking the a9 will be fine. But, time will tell.


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## SecureGSM (Jun 9, 2019)

rbielefeld said:


> No, the weather sealing on the a9 is not up to the 1D series level; especially on the bottom of the body from what I have researched. I use a storm jacket on all my cameras when the weather is bad, so I am thinking the a9 will be fine. But, time will tell.


One would have thought that a storm jacket isn't a great protection against an increased humidity levels? humid air entering camera body and then through into the lens.
condensate moisture can be an issue mid to long term for electronics. hmm..


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## rbielefeld (Jun 9, 2019)

SecureGSM said:


> One would have thought that a storm jacket isn't a great protection against an increased humidity levels? humid air entering camera body and then through into the lens.
> condensate moisture can be an issue mid to long term for electronics. hmm..


Very true. We will see.


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## deleteme (Jun 9, 2019)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Couldn't you throw on an ND filter? Or maybe I misunderstand.


When you use an ND filter the total amount of light to the sensor is reduced and a larger aperture can/must be used. This, of course, has become popular with the fashion for wide open/shallow DOF cliche.
However, this still leaves the top shutter speed at the camera limit (usually 1/200-1/250 depending on camera) and requires maximum power of the flash and achieving no increase in range.
With a leaf shutter the shutter/aperture combination can be set for the conditions and flash can be added at any power you wish to fill shadows as needed.
I have a Panasonic FZ1000 with a leaf shutter and I use it for events because of its versatile lens and amazing IQ. In the bright sun I have been able to light up a shaded speaker at 20 feet using a speedlight at 1/4 power and 1/1000 of a second at f 4.5.
That is straight up impossible with a focal plane shutter short of massive flash power that would blow the clothes off the subject.


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## canonmike (Jun 10, 2019)

LSXPhotog said:


> I am eagerly awaiting another EOS-M camera that could possibly replace the M5. The introduction of the 32mm f/1.4 has revealed itself as my dream lens for traveling and general photography. The lens has been so good, I consider it an integral part of my camera bag that I have -surprisingly- begun using in my professional work. It has been insanely fun to use and encouraged be to buy a used M5 until the next M comes out.
> 
> These are exciting times in the camera world. As much as Canon is getting shelled on the internet for being behind Sony and other cameras we have to take a step back. There are some great things in the works now that the sleeping and stubborn giant has been awakened. Hopefully the lower income of the comparatively smaller Canon can keep up with Sony or prove their experience in the photography industry can provide them an innovative leg up. Either way, just take photos and keep your head down...it's really insane how divisive our photo community has become over the years.


Everyone should read and UNDERSTAND your very last statement. Sadly, truer words were never written.


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## AlanF (Jun 10, 2019)

rbielefeld said:


> I have been testing the Sony a9 versus my 1DxII. I am using the Sony a9 with my Canon glass (600mm f/4 IS II and 100-400mm IS II, with and without 1.4x teleconverters). I am using the Sigma MC-11 adapter. You might want to try it out. The a9 AF system is quite amazing and once it locks on to a bird it does not want to let go. I get more series of all tack-sharp images with the Sony than with the 1DxII as the 1DxII tends to give me sharp and a bit soft images intermixed as the AI Sero AF micro-adjusts during a long burst series. Moreover, the a9 EVF has no blackout what so ever. It is actually easier to follow a bird in flight while shooting with the a9 then with the 1DxII and its fast flipping mirror. There are of course limitations when using adapted glass, but for me it has been an interesting, and to this point, successful test. I do not at all like the Sony's ergonomics as compared to the 1DxII, but it is something I can deal with. Everyone is different in what they need and like, and you may not like the performance, but if what you need is simply a camera which you can track, with a 500+mm lens, a fast flying bird and get decent in-focus results, this combo will do it. Attached file all taken with the Sony a9 and adapted Canon 600mm f/4 IS II + 1.4x TC hand held.


Very nice images but they are of large slow flying birds in my lexicon. Have you tried it on small fast flyers? (My RX10IV supposedly has the A9 focus system and works fine on larger birds like those.)


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## Pape (Jun 11, 2019)

With my tiny experience .small flying birds are imposible lock with small canon RP tracking locking box. i try shoot with 9 point zone af .
But yeah i am not good shooter,i know there are lot more talented peoples.



Two crappy example shoot . but trying is fun 
Would be nice see really challenging shots examples with A9 ,not landing or raising ones ,really flying ones.
Even dunno if you can evaluate how good camera is from examples . its more skill than camera .top shooter could do good pics with what ever camera.
And it depends shooting style what camera is good for certain people i believe.


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## AlanF (Jun 11, 2019)

Pape said:


> With my tiny experience .small flying birds are imposible lock with small canon RP tracking locking box. i try shoot with 9 point zone af .
> But yeah i am not good shooter,i know there are lot more talented peoples.
> View attachment 185023
> View attachment 185024
> ...


Good try! Capturing birds in flight (or indeed anything moving) requires the AF first to lock on and then track. Canon is lagging behind on tracking but Canon locks on quicker. This is where the 5DIV scores over the 5DSR. The centre 9 AF points of the 5DSR are pretty good but the outer ones not so whereas the 5DIV will pick up at the edges as well.


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## scottburgess (Jun 12, 2019)

Well, if it is to be a head-scratcher, how about this: NO SCREEN, and packaged with OIII, H-alpha etc. filters. Makes sense on a dedicated astro camera (have you tried looking at star field photos on a tiny screen in the dark?). It would make their astrophotography camera much less expensive, too. Instead, add in extra connectivity where one could link up a tablet or iPad to both control and view images during processing.


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## slclick (Jun 12, 2019)

How about an RF mount combo digital sensor/film body? That's one no one has asked for...


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