# Industry News: Sony announces their new flagship camera, the alpha a1



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 26, 2021)

> Sony has officially announced its new flagship alpha a1 camera body.
> This new body is equipped with a 50.1mp stacked EXMOR RS CMOS image sensor and a new BIONZ XR processor. This allowed the new camera to shoot at a full 30fps.
> The autofocus is new and improved, with a fast sensor readout that enables up to 120 AF/AE calculations per second. This is twice the speed as the Alpha a9 II.
> The EVF is a pretty impressive 9.44million-dot OLED display with a crazy refresh rate of 240fps.
> ...



Continue reading...


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## Maps (Jan 26, 2021)

Is anyone else weirdly hungry for steak all of a sudden?


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## peters (Jan 26, 2021)

What am impressive improvement once again - a realy impressive featureset.
I think the a7s III was very specific for video people - while this camera looks like a perfect, high end allrounder. Sport, landscape, productshots, video... it simply got everything one could wish for...

It runs "up to 30 minutes", according to sony in 4k60 or 8k. So similar overheating is to be expected like on the R5. Lets see how this plays out on the fans :-D


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## DrToast (Jan 26, 2021)

Not gonna lie, it sounds amazing.


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## Treyarnon (Jan 26, 2021)

So... its basically a 5DS for 3 times the price, with less noise, more DR and a few more frames per sec


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## iheartcanon (Jan 26, 2021)

Might be just me, but this makes me even happier with my R5. The specs sound good, but this is as good as it gets for them and it is 7,5k euro.

Nothing makes me feel as though I am missing out with the R5. And there is still the R1 to come.


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## Maps (Jan 26, 2021)

Disappointed that it wasn't something that will pressure the R5/6 pricing downwards. R5 is now a “budget” option.


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## Jordan23 (Jan 26, 2021)

peters said:


> It runs "up to 30 minutes", according to sony in 4k60 or 8k. So similar overheating is to be expected like on the R5. Lets see how this plays out on the fans :-D


And 8K only in 10bit 4:2:0. Yes, lets see how this plays out, especially if the next firmware for the R5 adds 8K CCRL with extended recording times.


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## festr (Jan 26, 2021)

9M EVF is amazing. I really hope the canon will release firmware with log3 and lighraw


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## h2so4 (Jan 26, 2021)

Sounds great but at that cost, 7300.00 euros ( or $8881.00 ) that's going to be a stretch for a lot of people.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 26, 2021)

festr said:


> 9M EVF is amazing. I really hope the canon will release firmware with log3 and lighraw



It's coming soon.


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## [email protected] (Jan 26, 2021)

Maps said:


> Is anyone else weirdly hungry for steak all of a sudden?


Looks like A9 line will discontinue ? and A1 is Sony's new pro line, fingers cross for Canon and Nikon to produce their PRO ML's this year.

However £7200 is a pro price and Canon still has winner in the (A7 R, Z7/Z8) with their excellent Canon EOS R 5 £4199


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## highdesertmesa (Jan 26, 2021)

I can dual-wield R5 for that price.


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## [email protected] (Jan 26, 2021)

h2so4 said:


> Sounds great but at that cost, 7300.00 euros ( or $8881.00 ) that's going to be a stretch for a lot of people.


Agree only for rich pros, A7 MK 4 (rumor) will be competitor to Canon's R6 - R5 and Nikon Z7 II and rumored Z8 (price ?? , specs ?? ).


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## Chaitanya (Jan 26, 2021)

Maps said:


> Is anyone else weirdly hungry for steak all of a sudden?


I am a vegetarian and wont mind something suitable.
On a serious note, same body as any a series of cameras and now with toasty 8k.


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## Fbimages (Jan 26, 2021)

That an impressive set of specs! Sony users will be happy. If they were to fix the UI they would have a winner!


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## RayValdez360 (Jan 26, 2021)

peters said:


> What am impressive improvement once again - a realy impressive featureset.
> I think the a7s III was very specific for video people - while this camera looks like a perfect, high end allrounder. Sport, landscape, productshots, video... it simply got everything one could wish for...
> 
> It runs "up to 30 minutes", according to sony in 4k60 or 8k. So similar overheating is to be expected like on the R5. Lets see how this plays out on the fans :-D


its not for video, might be a cripple. no one wants to make a perfect camera, its bad for business.


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## gavinz (Jan 26, 2021)

Great to see Sony pushing the limit. Canon always needed someone to move them along and then suddenly they decide to catch up. I think the no black out is a big deal that Canon needs to address. The fps game is now in ridiculous territory but if you are paid for capturing the exact moment then it is important but it is definitely on the diminishing return side. the 50Mp is good but may not be needed for many. Still very cool to see big step forward in technology.


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## Hector1970 (Jan 26, 2021)

Impressive on paper anyway. It’s putting it up to Canon. It puts the R1 under pressure and makes the 1DXIII almost old fashioned. You’d need a lot of storage space. 1TB laptops will fill quite quickly. It’s so fast you wonder will it be robust . It must have some very fine engineering inside with tight tolerances . You could burn through 100,000 shutter cycles in no time. I look forward to the reviews especially its focus tracking abilities.


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## bergstrom (Jan 26, 2021)

I can see the reviews "So disappointed with this camera, doesn't shoot 8k or 16k at 120fps".


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## Maps (Jan 26, 2021)

Nothing wrong with putting A1 on a salad.



Chaitanya said:


> I am a vegetarian and wont mind something suitable.
> On a serious note, same body as any a series of cameras and now with toasty 8k.


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## tcphoto (Jan 26, 2021)

For that price, I would expect no less...


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## Chris.Chapterten (Jan 26, 2021)

iheartcanon said:


> Might be just me, but this makes me even happier with my R5. The specs sound good, but this is as good as it gets for them and it is 7,5k euro.
> 
> Nothing makes me feel as though I am missing out with the R5. And there is still the R1 to come.


I feel the same way really. Some pretty amazing specs though! Let’s see how the overheating situation plays out.


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## LesC (Jan 26, 2021)

Wonder what the battery capacity is ...


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## jam05 (Jan 26, 2021)

Fbimages said:


> That an impressive set of specs! Sony users will be happy. If they were to fix the UI they would have a winner!


Don't know about it being a "Winner" but is will retire their A9, which one can count on one hand in most sporting venues


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## HarryFilm (Jan 26, 2021)

This is actually a VERY VERY VERY GOOD CAMERA from Sony!

We are platform agnostic using Arri, Red, Sony, Canon, Fuji, Panasonic, Phantom, Blackmagic, Olympus, Go-Pro, Our Own Custom Built cameras, etc. etc), so I have NO PROBLEM with switching between or using different cameras from different manufacturers depending on my project needs/desires.

The ONLY ISSUE I see with this Sony A-1 is that 1.89:1 Cinema Aspect Ratios (i.e. DCI 8K 8192 by 4320 pixels and DCI 4K 4096 by 2160 pixels) video recording is NOT available on this camera!

This Sony A1 only has the 16:9 aspect ratio XUHDTV 7680 by 4320 pixels and UHDTV 3840 by 2160 pixels recording modes which is a limiting factor for those who are using this as B and C cameras or as Crash Cams for Hollywood, Netflix, Amazon or Apple Cinema distribution contracts. For TV commercials and documentaries though this Sony A1 is a GREAT CAMERA!

We use the Canon R5 as Cinema crash cams in flight, underwater and in space, so WE MUST HAVE 1.89:1 Cinema Aspect Ratio imagery on ANY video-centric or hybrid camera we buy! Only Arri, Red, Canon and Blackmagic offer these native 1.89:1 DCI recording modes.

Other than that issue, this NEW Sony A-1 camera will DEFINITELY BE GREAT for the low-to-medium budget commercial-oriented and documentray-oriented cinematographer.

I am looking forward to giving it a try. I’ll put in a P.O. for a few of them later this afternoon.

See full specs for Sony A-1:

https://www.sony.ca/en/electronics/interchangeable-lens-cameras/ilce-1/specifications

V


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## peters (Jan 26, 2021)

RayValdez360 said:


> its not for video, might be a cripple. no one wants to make a perfect camera, its bad for business.


I think its more about simple physics. Its just difficult to achieve these sensor readouts without generating heat. Even higher end, dedicated video cameras overheat on their highest settings. 8k is a lot of data...


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## PerKr (Jan 26, 2021)

Honestly not impressed. I expected to be. But this is more or less a somewhat upgraded A9. A9 with higher resolution and faster sensor (to allow 1/200s flash sync) and 8k that's not on the level of the R5. And the price... I mean, it's a great camera, it's just not that impressive given what the A9 and R5 already achieved. Seems like a pretty easy target for the R1 to hit?

Also, I don't understand why they did not make this the A9mkIII and instead decided to mess their naming conventions up. Why do it now, after so many years of 5-, 7- and 9-series in both A and E mount? especially since it's designed and priced as an A9mkII successor. It's like they just looked at Canon and said "let's be more like Canon. On the surface."


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## Andy Westwood (Jan 26, 2021)

Sony Trumps Canon once more (ah! Should I have said that word, Trump! Lol) Sony first to announce the mirrorless 1! I watched the launch via CR live and certainly an impressive bit of kit.

Come on Canon! The bar is set to follow or surpass for the up-and-coming R1


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## jayphotoworks (Jan 26, 2021)

It will still have overheating constraints in 8K (8.6K oversampled) at about 30mins, but the rest of the spec sheet seems great. The electronic shutter can sync to 1/200 and the mechanical shutter can sync to 1/400. It looks like the e-shutter itself might be very close to mechanical shutter speeds removing some of the remaining advantages of mechanical shutters.

I think Sony really needed a new body rather than recycle the same A7 style they've been using for what seems like an eternity. But Sony seems to be the new Nikon these days and it seems to be coming around to those early days when Canon and Nikon leapfrogged each other release after release.


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## fred (Jan 26, 2021)

Sony changed their strategy for the zoom olympics and came out of hiding first - usually they will wait for Canon and Nikon first (e.g. R6, Z6II —> A7IV)...


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## john1970 (Jan 26, 2021)

Amazing specifications and I will be very interested to see what Canon R1 can do as well. Not surprised at the price of $6500, but that is without a vertical grip. By the time one adds the vertical grip and pays sales tax one is looking at $7000 for a camera. Wow! I definitely want to purchase a flagship camera from Sony or Canon, but because I can only afford one I will wait and see what Canon releases. Once I have info on both I will make my decision.


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## JordanCS13 (Jan 26, 2021)

Treyarnon said:


> So... its basically a 5DS for 3 times the price, with less noise, more DR and a few more frames per sec



I'm assuming you're joking, but in case you aren't....it's a 5Ds with two stops better dynamic range 30fps vs 5fps, world-class AF, zero blackout, 1/400s flash sync, 1/200s electronic shutter flash sync, an enormous viewfinder and so on.. But yeah, otherwise the same.


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## padam (Jan 26, 2021)

The R5 still has:
-better ergonomics
-much sharper articulating screen
-better lens mount
-better IBIS
-internal 8K RAW or 10-bit 4:2:2 instead or 4:2:0
-colours (this could trigger some people, but true to an extent especially for video, which is usually compressed)
-4K30p HQ full sensor mode, not offered in the A1 (only 5.8K APC-C mode) maybe because it would overheat just as much and 8K 10-bit 4:2:0 generates less heat? but it puts the overheat drama into a very different perspective

For 2600$ less, it looks to be in a very solid position in the camera market, so I wouldn't except a price drop after this.

While the A1 looks great, I think it is typical Sony in the way of just endlessly chasing specs (which are actually lacking here and there) and not improving in other important areas while the R5 is now suddenly perceived as "lacklustre" but it is actually a really great camera underneath.


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## bandido (Jan 26, 2021)

Treyarnon said:


> So... its basically a 5DS for 3 times the price, with less noise, more DR and a few more frames per sec


The 5DS doesn't have the video features and speed of the Sony A1=a7+a7r+a7s+a9


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## HarryFilm (Jan 26, 2021)

peters said:


> What am impressive improvement once again - a realy impressive featureset.
> I think the a7s III was very specific for video people - while this camera looks like a perfect, high end allrounder. Sport, landscape, productshots, video... it simply got everything one could wish for...
> 
> It runs "up to 30 minutes", according to sony in 4k60 or 8k. So similar overheating is to be expected like on the R5. Lets see how this plays out on the fans :-D



---

The 30 minute issue is POSSIBLY linked to the European-specific Taxation issue which charges different import tax rates on cameras that record for less than 30 minutes versus 30+ minutes. If someone is clever with camera BIOS'es (i.e. ME!) I would just do a quick bios assembler/microcode JMP/RTN instruction to get rid of that limit! That voids the warranty but I don't care since we buy cameras by the bucket load at 10 to 100 cameras at a time!

If it TRULY IS a thermal limitation, then it means then Sony is NOT using active cooling or a large-enough internal heat sink!

It also means the Canon R5 is STILL THE SUPERIOR CAMERA, since I get Hollywood Cinema-specific DCI 8k (1.89:1 aspect ratio 8192 by 4320 pixels) recording AND up-to-45 minutes at 8K when I put in our CF-express slot to external 4TB SSD-drive system on it which removes the R5 card slot file save limits! The Sony only has UHDTV 16:9 aspect ratios for 8K and 4K video.

For Sports/Action/Wildlife still photographers, the Sony A-1 has 30 FPS burst rate which is INSANELY FAST !!!

I should note though, for the longest while on ALL my side-job F1, Soccer, Hockey, Skiing, basketball imagery, I've been shooting at DCI 4K (i.e. 8 megapixel shots) at 60 fps VIDEO MODE for my online and printed magazine spreads. I've never had the low-pixel count issue raised since I use a super-high-quality Fractal Image Resizer to submit my final images as colour-corrected and cropped 8 Megapixel Web-specific RGBA PNG files and and 32 megapixel hardcopy print CMYK TIFF files to editors around the world! They don't need to do any other work so they are happy and we get PAID FAST AND FURIOUSLY!

We also submit colour corrected/edited video clips and they are THRILLED at that for using those on their online web promos! AND NOBODY HAS NOTICED THE DIFFERENCE between my stills modes and video frame captures since I use a video-oriented DCI 8K 30 fps or a DCI 4K 60 fps recording as my Burst Rate imaging !!!!!


V


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jan 26, 2021)

The specs look impressive but it lacks a built in grip. We'll also need to see what the R1 and Z1/Z9 have, I suspect the pro Z body will have the A1 sensor with Nikon colour's and Nikon ergonomics for instance. 

Like Nikon, Sony do put the on/off switch in the 'right' place. Flick and click in one motion.


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## john1970 (Jan 26, 2021)

I am also also disappointed that Sony did not address ergonomics of the Alpha series especially for their premier camera. I really wished they would have made an integrated vertical grip and made the camera a bit larger for us individuals with larger hands.


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## padam (Jan 26, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> Like Nikon, Sony do put the on/off switch in the 'right' place. Flick and click in one motion.


I do have a few (minor) reservations about the R5, but the on/off switch on the left side is perfectly fine, makes the right side a lot cleaner and the shutter button can be at the perfect positive with the right angle, I'd rather have it as-is.
I think they may put the on/off switch on the R1 in a similar position where it is on the 1DX III.
What I hate is where they've moved the menu button (copied from Sony...) at least it should have been exchanged with the rate button.


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## joestopper (Jan 26, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...



The ultimate question: Will the R1 match?


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## melgross (Jan 26, 2021)

Very impressive. Their first real attempt at a full priced pro level camera. Now we’ll have to see if Canon is going to go the ”low” rez route with theirs, when it comes out, presumably this year, or go full out as Sony has. I assume Canon has learned from the R5 how to fix the overheat problems in hi rez video. Everything else, they can match, if they want to.


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## melgross (Jan 26, 2021)

padam said:


> The R5 still has:
> -better ergonomics
> -much sharper articulating screen
> -better lens mount
> ...


Those cameras aren’t going to directly compete. When Canon comes out with the “R1”, later this year, as we’ve been LED to believe, then they will have a camera to compete with. But the question is whether they have plans for it that essentially match this Sony, or their intentions are in a different direction. We keep hearing that it might be a low 20MP sensor. Will that be a problem now, if so? I hope we’ll find out sooner than later as to what Canon has.


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## 12Broncos (Jan 26, 2021)

Sony makes an announcement 26 days into the new year. It'll be eight/nine months before Canon/Nikon even hint of a mirrorless flagship, quite frankly I might not wait. I never thought I'd say, "I'm getting a Sony Camera." I'll wait for some reviews then go from there. Nikon and Canon have their work cut out for them .


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## dwarven (Jan 26, 2021)

Awesome specs. Although if I were a pro I'd rather have a 1DX grip and weather sealing/durability.


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## blackcoffee17 (Jan 26, 2021)

Treyarnon said:


> So... its basically a 5DS for 3 times the price, with less noise, more DR and a few more frames per sec



With 15 times the video resolution and 5 times the frame rate.


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## dolina (Jan 26, 2021)

Looks like the R1 will be out in 2021


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## blackcoffee17 (Jan 26, 2021)

jam05 said:


> Don't know about it being a "Winner" but is will retire their A9, which one can count on one hand in most sporting venues



I think the A9 is a different category. High end sport camera with half the resolution and half the price.


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## Deleted member 381342 (Jan 26, 2021)

Some other disappointing news here: Sony went with CFExpress A which further buggers up sharing cards when Nikon and Canon have went for the more sensible and faster type B cards. It is almost as if Sony just wish to be different, and never in a good way.


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## padam (Jan 26, 2021)

melgross said:


> Those cameras aren’t going to directly compete. When Canon comes out with the “R1”, later this year, as we’ve been LED to believe, then they will have a camera to compete with. But the question is whether they have plans for it that essentially match this Sony, or their intentions are in a different direction. We keep hearing that it might be a low 20MP sensor. Will that be a problem now, if so? I hope we’ll find out sooner than later as to what Canon has.


They actually do compete somewhat, in the sense that they are both represented as all-in-one cameras.
There is no other model in the Sony line-up like this one, it is either all-in on photo or video, but not both at the same time at this high level.

So Canon providing a camera like this at a significantly lower price point will make it very attractive for many people who aren't very concerned about overheating.

The Canon R1 will be higher positioned and different again, I would guess probably a bit less megapixels but definitely over 30 and with a global shutter for 8000$.

While I think the A1 price is quite outrageous, it makes the 1DX III very old for the same amount of money, that's why they "chose" this exact price.


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## Fbimages (Jan 26, 2021)

melgross said:


> Those cameras aren’t going to directly compete. When Canon comes out with the “R1”, later this year, as we’ve been LED to believe, then they will have a camera to compete with. But the question is whether they have plans for it that essentially match this Sony, or their intentions are in a different direction. We keep hearing that it might be a low 20MP sensor. Will that be a problem now, if so? I hope we’ll find out sooner than later as to what Canon has.


I think you are right and that they will stick with the 20MP. I gave the 1DX iii a shot and it is an incredible camera. I just received the R5 today and will see how it compares AF wise. I thought I could do with 20mpx but it's just not enough for large prints considering I do crop a lot for wildlife. I am sure for sports and events it won't be as much of an issue, and that's probably the end market for these cameras anyway.


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## twoheadedboy (Jan 26, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> Some other disappointing news here: Sony went with CFExpress A which further buggers up sharing cards when Nikon and Canon have went for the more sensible and faster type B cards. It is almost as if Sony just wish to be different, and never in a good way.



Sony literally always does this, for the last 40 years: https://www.fastcompany.com/1290466/sonys-long-list-format-failure-betamax-memorystick-micro


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## Maps (Jan 26, 2021)

Agree. We’ll see what happens, but my first thought is that it seems like the market is lining up in such a way that the Sonys sort of sit in between the Canons both price and spec wise, rather than directly competing. We'll... see what happens...

R1-$8000?

A1-$6500

R5-$3900

A7IV -$3000? (controversial)

R6-$2500

A7c-$1800

Rp-$1000



padam said:


> They actually do compete somewhat, in the sense that they are both represented as all-in-one cameras.
> There is no other model in the Sony line-up like this one, it is either all-in on photo or video, but not both at the same time at this high level.
> 
> So Canon providing a camera like this at a significantly lower price point will make it very attractive for many people who aren't very concerned about overheating.
> ...


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## padam (Jan 26, 2021)

twoheadedboy said:


> Sony literally always does this, for the last 40 years: https://www.fastcompany.com/1290466/sonys-long-list-format-failure-betamax-memorystick-micro


You can make an SD CFExpress A combo slot (so you can use 2 SD cards if you don't need the speed or highest bitrates for video).
But for CFExpress B you do not have that option. So you either use one of each card type like the R5 or make it dual CFExpress B only which is expensive and also requires more space.

So this time, doing the cards slots like this is definitely a logical choice for Sony and more cameras may follow up using type A in a few years' time.


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## reef58 (Jan 26, 2021)

PerKr said:


> Honestly not impressed. I expected to be. But this is more or less a somewhat upgraded A9. A9 with higher resolution and faster sensor (to allow 1/200s flash sync) and 8k that's not on the level of the R5. And the price... I mean, it's a great camera, it's just not that impressive given what the A9 and R5 already achieved. Seems like a pretty easy target for the R1 to hit?
> 
> Also, I don't understand why they did not make this the A9mkIII and instead decided to mess their naming conventions up. Why do it now, after so many years of 5-, 7- and 9-series in both A and E mount? especially since it's designed and priced as an A9mkII successor. It's like they just looked at Canon and said "let's be more like Canon. On the surface."



I have to ask what would impress you? I am not a Sony guy, but I can't imagine a camera with more features that resembles a hand holdable body.


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## bbasiaga (Jan 26, 2021)

bergstrom said:


> I can see the reviews "So disappointed with this camera, doesn't shoot 8k or 16k at 120fps".


Nah, that's only limiting on a Canon camera. If its a Sony, its perfect the way it is.


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## Max TT (Jan 26, 2021)

Don't mind me, I am just here to read the asinine comments. LOL


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## padam (Jan 26, 2021)

reef58 said:


> I have to ask what would impress you? I am not a Sony guy, but I can't imagine a camera with more features that resembles a hand holdable body.


Because they are equipping the same bodies with new sensors and processors and ask much more for it. And the A9 and A9II had to be held back for video, to not "interfere" with this "all-in-one" concept and rebranding. That was their vision from the start. This is no different to what Canon is doing regarding the Cinema line with overheating, etc. but for some reason Sony gets away with it much better.

Yes, the technology is absolutely cutting edge, but that is exactly what you are paying a lot of money for and not more. They still reserve a lot of improvement in other areas, some issues are still there.

And of course when you are paying this much for the camera body itself, psychologically the lenses don't seem to be as outrageously priced anymore - even though they are in some cases, the body and lens pricing support each other better this way.

It is the same "quick inflation" we saw with smartphones as well. At some point we will see an A1II with 8k60fps enabled as the sensor is capable of it and the MSRP may be less at 6000$.


I had thought the A7SIII 3500$ price was quite high considering it is all-in on video and not photo, but now it can be marketed as amazing value for video - because it sort of is considering all new cameras are this expensive since people are willing to pay for them.


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## Tahoejr (Jan 26, 2021)

Definitely makes me feel good about my R5 and its price point. 

SAR definitely had many of the specs nailed but certainly not the cost of the Sony R1. The consensus was putting this at $4999.


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## Sorosuub (Jan 26, 2021)

Will the battery life on a single charge last more than 15 minutes? 

Manny Ortiz/Fro live blog confirms the mechanical shutter speed only 10fps. lmao.


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## jayphotoworks (Jan 26, 2021)

padam said:


> You can make an SD CFExpress A combo slot (so you can use 2 SD cards if you don't need the speed or highest bitrates for video).
> But for CFExpress B you do not have that option. So you either use one of each card type like the R5 or make it dual CFExpress B only which is expensive and also requires more space.
> 
> So this time, doing the cards slots like this is definitely a logical choice for Sony and more cameras may follow up using type A in a few years' time.



I've never been a fan of two different slots. I think CFEb is a bit more future proofed than CFEa, but I can't deny the convenience. I normally shoot SD cards on my A7S3 and I usually dual record, so I didn't have to invest in a ton of new media, although I pretty much upgraded most of my UHS-I cards to UHS-II cards already. I'm getting 350MBps copies from my UHS-II cards to either my PC or Nexto NPS-10 which is fast enough for most use cases.

As resolution increases and in camera RAW becomes more commonplace, CFEa might be limited in what it can offer in terms of performance, but outside of RAW (which I personally would not shoot on a hybrid anyhow), I don't think CFEa is a bad compromise.


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## -pekr- (Jan 26, 2021)

12Broncos said:


> Sony makes an announcement 26 days into the new year. It'll be eight/nine months before Canon/Nikon even hint of a mirrorless flagship, quite frankly I might not wait. I never thought I'd say, "I'm getting a Sony Camera." I'll wait for some reviews then go from there. Nikon and Canon have their work cut out for them .



What do you shoot today? Does one REALLY make such a decisions, owning some ecosystem, to not wait .... even for something like 10-12 months?


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## xps (Jan 26, 2021)

Amazing. 30fps @ 50 MP.... Wow
Body lokks like the 7SIII/7RIV
Heavy pricy. Got an price of 7300€...Wow

What does that mean for "Our" R1?
50 MP too? at 20FPS?
8000€?
Half of battery life?


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## h2so4 (Jan 26, 2021)

I love that they have two card slots that are the same. I wish my R5's did but for my work I will stick with my R5 but for some people I think this will be a great choice.


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## padam (Jan 26, 2021)

jayphotoworks said:


> As resolution increases and in camera RAW becomes more commonplace, CFEa might be limited in what it can offer in terms of performance, but outside of RAW (which I personally would not shoot on a hybrid anyhow), I don't think CFEa is a bad compromise.


I think technology will provide even better compression than what's available now, so CFEa is probably remains sufficient.
There is not much reason why Prores RAW or BRAW can't be recorded internally by stills cameras as long as they care to pay for licensing it and implement it to cannibalise their cinema cameras a bit more - oh wait


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## Random Orbits (Jan 26, 2021)

h2so4 said:


> I love that they have two card slots that are the same. I wish my R5's did but for my work I will stick with my R5 but for some people I think this will be a great choice.



I love the speed of the CFE card, but I'm traveling, I'm bringing the laptop, which only has a SD slot. I shoot to both cards or copy from one to the other when I have down time, but it's nice to have something I can put into the laptop without lugging around another adapter/dongle.


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## Joules (Jan 26, 2021)

Sorosuub said:


> Manny Ortiz/Fro live blog confirms the mechanical shutter speed only 10fps. lmao.


Wow, 10 FPS mechanical on the top end. Talk about crippling the camera 

Their electronic shutter marketing material suggests awesome electronic shutter performance though. I have not seen the bit depth at 30 FPS mentioned yet. Does it drop that far down that they are afraid to mention it, or did I miss it?


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jan 26, 2021)

festr said:


> 9M EVF is amazing. I really hope the canon will release firmware with log3 and lighraw


Yeah, CLOG3 would make the dynamic range closer to what Sony is toutinh for the A1.


----------



## tron (Jan 26, 2021)

I'll be waiting for A1MkIV


----------



## HarryFilm (Jan 26, 2021)

Joules said:


> Wow, 10 FPS mechanical on the top end. Talk about crippling the camera
> 
> Their electronic shutter marketing material suggests awesome electronic shutter performance though. I have not seen the bit depth at 30 FPS mentioned yet. Does it drop that far down that they are afraid to mention it, or did I miss it?



-- 

Sony has had electronic GLOBAL SHUTTER since the late 1980's on their 3-CCD Betacam SP ENG camera (DAMN! I can't believe we paid $55,000 USD for an equivalent 756 by 486 pixels SDTV resolution camera and $35,000 for the Fujinon SDTV-resolution Servo lens!)

SONY KNOWS ELECTRONIC SHUTTERS VERY VERY WELL having 30+ years of experience with them starting with their Hyper-HAD sensors!

It's the OTHER manufacturers who have to catch up with Sony on that and I still love the Betacam-style 4K Shoulder-mount ENG Cameras for ergonomic reasons!

We have a few of the following Global Electronic Shutter ENG cameras:

CCD:





PDW-850 XDCAM Camcorder 3x 2/3" Power HAD FX CCD Sensors - Sony Pro


Discover the Sony PDW-850 XDCAM Camcorder 3x 2/3" Power HAD FX CCD Sensors. High sensitivity with three 2/3" type Power HAD FX CCDs. Find out more.




pro.sony





CMOS:








PXW-Z750 XDCAM 3-chip 2/3-type Camcorder - Sony Pro


Discover the Sony PXW-Z750 4K HDR CMOS Shoulder Mount Camcorder with global shutter, high sensitivity, 4K/HD simultaneous recording. Find out more.




pro.sony





They are AWESOME to use!

V


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jan 26, 2021)

RayValdez360 said:


> its not for video, might be a cripple. no one wants to make a perfect camera, its bad for business.


It is not possible to make a perfect anything.
People always want more.


----------



## Joules (Jan 26, 2021)

HarryFilm said:


> --
> 
> Sony has had electronic GLOBAL SHUTTER since the late 1980's on their 3-CCD Betacam SP ENG camera (DAMN! I can't believe we paid $55,000 USD for an equivalent 756 by 486 pixels SDTV resolution camera and $35,000 for the Fujinon SDTV-resolution Servo lens!)
> 
> ...


The a1 defintively does not have a global shutter though. And so I am curious how far they drop the bitrate to achieve 30 FPS and the incredibly low distortion they demonstrate in they launch video. Do you have the firgures for that by chance?

Also, purely talking about the latest consumer ILC, I don't have the impression there is all that much catching up to do anymore. The R5 has already demonstrated that Canon can do high resolution, high throughput imaging with very quick read out speeds now. With the R1, that can only improve.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jan 26, 2021)

jam05 said:


> Don't know about it being a "Winner" but is will retire their A9, which one can count on one hand in most sporting venues


I have my doubts.
I have not seen Sony bragging about the buffer.
How long A1 can sustain 30 FPS is paramount.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jan 26, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> Some other disappointing news here: Sony went with CFExpress A which further buggers up sharing cards when Nikon and Canon have went for the more sensible and faster type B cards. It is almost as if Sony just wish to be different, and never in a good way.


Type A does not make much sense for this camera since using SD never makes sense but I get why Sony would want to standardize across models where switching between SD and Type-A make sense.


----------



## Bert63 (Jan 26, 2021)

Maps said:


> Disappointed that it wasn't something that will pressure the R5/6 pricing downwards. R5 is now a “budget” option.




Said if before and I’ll say it again. The R5 is a bargain - it costs the same as the 5D4 did at launch and there is nothing else like it out there.


----------



## Aaron D (Jan 26, 2021)

Wonderful camera but I don't know where I'm going to put it. I'm buying cameras faster than I can clear space for them.

But why Alpha 1? Where did Sony learn to count?


----------



## jam05 (Jan 26, 2021)

peters said:


> What am impressive improvement once again - a realy impressive featureset.
> I think the a7s III was very specific for video people - while this camera looks like a perfect, high end allrounder. Sport, landscape, productshots, video... it simply got everything one could wish for...
> 
> It runs "up to 30 minutes", according to sony in 4k60 or 8k. So similar overheating is to be expected like on the R5. Lets see how this plays out on the fans :-D





Hector1970 said:


> Impressive on paper anyway. It’s putting it up to Canon. It puts the R1 under pressure and makes the 1DXIII almost old fashioned. You’d need a lot of storage space. 1TB laptops will fill quite quickly. It’s so fast you wonder will it be robust . It must have some very fine engineering inside with tight tolerances . You could burn through 100,000 shutter cycles in no time. I look forward to the reviews especially its focus tracking abilities.


Get a grip. Perfect for who? Don't assume that you speak for everyone. One can say that about many cameras. Simply say that it may have everything for you. You can 't possible speak for every genre of photography and every photographer.


----------



## jam05 (Jan 26, 2021)

Aaron D said:


> Wonderful camera but I don't know where I'm going to put it. I'm buying cameras faster than I can clear space for them.
> 
> But why Alpha 1? Where did Sony learn to count?


Then you're simply attesting to being a gear head. Buying more cameras than you have room to place them. Cameras don't take up that much space individually.


----------



## ethanz (Jan 26, 2021)

That seems like a low buffer compared to other sports cameras. 

And so that is why you see no mention of mechanical fps in the literature, it is only 10. As others have said, hopefully the electronic shutter images aren't too low of quality in this camera to make up for it.


----------



## dwarven (Jan 26, 2021)

-pekr- said:


> What do you shoot today? Does one REALLY make such a decisions, owning some ecosystem, to not wait .... even for something like 10-12 months?



We're living in the era of *now now now*. Not a great way to live I don't think.


----------



## Aaron D (Jan 26, 2021)

jam05 said:


> Then you're simply attesting to being a gear head. Buying more cameras than you have room to place them. Cameras don't take up that much space individually.


That's why I like mirrorless cameras so much. I've got 600 of 'em packed under the cushions of my sofa, nobody notices.


----------



## Kharan (Jan 26, 2021)

Joules said:


> Wow, 10 FPS mechanical on the top end. Talk about crippling the camera
> 
> Their electronic shutter marketing material suggests awesome electronic shutter performance though. I have not seen the bit depth at 30 FPS mentioned yet. Does it drop that far down that they are afraid to mention it, or did I miss it?


It scans the whole sensor in 1/200 of a second, meaning that the mechanical shutter can be used even less now. I have no idea if the camera drops bitrate at 30 FPS, but even if it does, it stands to reason that it should output 14-bit files at a slower clip.


----------



## padam (Jan 26, 2021)

DPreview: "Like the a7S III, it can shoot 4K at up to 120p in 10-bit 4:2:2 quality. Sony says it uses 5.8K pixels in its Super 35 (~APS-C) mode, but there's no talk of a 4K-from-8K mode." 

It's a huge strike for the A1 if this turns out to be true, 4K-HQ on the R5 is amazingly good.


----------



## Joules (Jan 26, 2021)

Kharan said:


> It scans the whole sensor in 1/200 of a second, meaning that the mechanical shutter can be used even less now. I have no idea if the camera drops bitrate at 30 FPS, but even if it does, it stands to reason that it should output 14-bit files at a slower clip.


Do you mean sensor read out speed is 1/200 s? Or do you just mean the flash sync? If it is the former, would you please point out your source? I'd be interested in how that's measured, particularly at what resoultion and bit depth.

The a9 or R5 drop to 12 bit for their high FPS modes, which increases read out speed and thereby reduces rolling shutter artifacts. Depending on how Sony implemented 30 FPS, it is either an achievement in sensor throughput or a spec sheet decoration. So I'm just curious how far it drops. If it is 12 bit that's impressive, even more so if they actually improved the read out speed on top of that as their marketing video seems to suggest.


----------



## Aussie shooter (Jan 26, 2021)

Sounds impressive. That is for sure. Ergonomics and build quality will be important of course. But 30fps!!!!?? Jeez i hop whoever is shooting that has a lot of time on their hands to sort through photos. I avoid shooting at 20fps except for very specific circumtances. Although as a flagship I would assume that rate is an option as I wish it was on the R6


----------



## tron (Jan 26, 2021)

Random Orbits said:


> I love the speed of the CFE card, but I'm traveling, I'm bringing the laptop, which only has a SD slot. I shoot to both cards or copy from one to the other when I have down time, but it's nice to have something I can put into the laptop without lugging around another adapter/dongle.


Coincidentally, yesterday I bought the Sony MRW-G1 CFExpress / XQD card reader ! I have also put my only UHS-II card to the SD slot of my R5 and I think that's it! No more cards. Of course accidents happen but in that case it will be SD cards. I do hope accidents will not happen because my CFExpress card was very expensive!


----------



## tron (Jan 26, 2021)

It is my opinion that R5 is close to A1 for about half the money!


----------



## privatebydesign (Jan 26, 2021)

Andy Westwood said:


> Sony Trumps Canon once more (ah! Should I have said that word, Trump! Lol) Sony first to announce the mirrorless 1! I watched the launch via CR live and certainly an impressive bit of kit.
> 
> Come on Canon! The bar is set to follow or surpass for the up-and-coming R1


Well it depends what you call a 1 series camera really. Personally I consider a built in grip, massive battery, low resolution and high fps to be the hallmarks of a I series or single digit Nikon D series camera, this α1 has one of those four.

It seems to me this is a Sony competitor to the R5, which it does best in some categories but then it should it is nearly a year newer. However I do not believe this is what Canon's 'R1X' is going to be like, this α1 is much closer to an R5 II.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jan 26, 2021)

Random Orbits said:


> I love the speed of the CFE card, but I'm traveling, I'm bringing the laptop, which only has a SD slot. I shoot to both cards or copy from one to the other when I have down time, but it's nice to have something I can put into the laptop without lugging around another adapter/dongle.


Why not just connect the camera directly to the computer, built in card reader!


----------



## DBounce (Jan 26, 2021)

peters said:


> What am impressive improvement once again - a realy impressive featureset.
> I think the a7s III was very specific for video people - while this camera looks like a perfect, high end allrounder. Sport, landscape, productshots, video... it simply got everything one could wish for...
> 
> It runs "up to 30 minutes", according to sony in 4k60 or 8k. So similar overheating is to be expected like on the R5. Lets see how this plays out on the fans :-D


But strangely the “stills focused” Alpha A1 has S-Cinetone, whereas the A7S III does not?


----------



## bergstrom (Jan 26, 2021)

Sorosuub said:


> Will the battery life on a single charge last more than 15 minutes?
> 
> Manny Ortiz/Fro live blog confirms the mechanical shutter speed only 10fps. lmao.



Fro seemed underwhelmed.


----------



## neurorx (Jan 26, 2021)

Here's to hoping that the R1 leapfrog's this camera.


----------



## Andy Westwood (Jan 26, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> However I do not believe this is what Canon's 'R1X' is going to be like, this α1 is much closer to an R5 II.


Spot on! Actually


----------



## PerKr (Jan 26, 2021)

reef58 said:


> I have to ask what would impress you? I am not a Sony guy, but I can't imagine a camera with more features that resembles a hand holdable body.



well, the A9 impressed me when it came around. That was a leap from the previous A7 bodies and what Canon and Nikon offered. At least on paper. Same with the A99ii when that came and combined speed and resolution. Groundbreaking stuff. No competition. This time we get the 30fps electronic shutter and lag-less viewfinder of the A9 and 8K. This is great, sure, and if it hadn't been for the A9 and the R5 it would have been amazing. Compared to the 1D it's super in many ways, just less so when compared with the R5 and A9. Similar to how the latest 1D iteration has rarely been mindblowingly impressive compared to the previous generation. Having flash sync at 1/200 with electronic shutter is nice but global shutter would have been amazing. Maybe that's what it takes. Now it just feels like Canon will have no trouble outdoing this; they must have aimed to outperform the A9 for stills already and probably offering video capabilities similar to or better than the R5.

I am an on/off Sony guy. I use A-mount (and I am qeird about that) and want to love E-mount. The A7 and A9 both got me excited when they came, just like the A900, A77, A99 etc, but seeing the fanboys often makes me want to stay away from E-mount altogether. I'll probably get an A7 or A9 eventually.


----------



## Hector1970 (Jan 26, 2021)

Codebunny said:


> Some other disappointing news here: Sony went with CFExpress A which further buggers up sharing cards when Nikon and Canon have went for the more sensible and faster type B cards. It is almost as if Sony just wish to be different, and never in a good way.


Yes interesting that. You'd wonder why. It seems like entropy rules when it comes to memory cards and connections.
Forever inventing new incompatible versions.
My CF Express type B cards run hot especially in a card reader. I'm not sure what it will do for the operational life of them.
It's a pity they couldn't improve the SD card further. 50MP at 30FPS is going to be a huge load on the card.


----------



## HarryFilm (Jan 26, 2021)

Joules said:


> The a1 defintively does not have a global shutter though. And so I am curious how far they drop the bitrate to achieve 30 FPS and the incredibly low distortion they demonstrate in they launch video. Do you have the firgures for that by chance?
> 
> Also, purely talking about the latest consumer ILC, I don't have the impression there is all that much catching up to do anymore. The R5 has already demonstrated that Canon can do high resolution, high throughput imaging with very quick read out speeds now. With the R1, that can only improve.



---

The 30 fps Burst Rate Stills bandwidth is usually a function of the DSP (Digital Signal Processor) and ADC/DAC (Analog-to-Digital and Digital-to-Analog Converter) chip speed which indicates how many gigasamples per second it can do and at what output bit-depth is creates.

For the Sony A-1, the full-frame 8640 x 5760 pixel 3:2 image frame requires 49,766,400‬ pixels with FOUR SAMPLES per RGBG Pixel (i.e. 4 separate Red, Green, Blue, Green photosites) which means 199,065,600 samples per frame or 5,971,968,000 samples per second at 20 bits wide initially and then sub-sampled down to 16, 14, 12, 10 and 8 bits per output RGBG channel sample.

YOU MUST be able to process an entire set of 30 frames UNCOMPRESSED during each second so you can then make a reasonable calculation on other parts of the system to see what sort of bandwidth is required. It really isn't all that exotic based upon what I am seeing.

With an 8-channel ADC/DAC/DSP chip set, it means at least 746.5 Megasamples per Second per channel since you are doing multiple instructions per second (i.e. 2 to 4 cpu ops per clock tick) on most BIONZ chips, so MY GUESS that it's PROBABLY a 1.5 GHz processor and probably costs Sony $150 USD to produce in-house or get from GlobalFoundries (aka AMD and IBM) under OEM/ODM outsourcing agreements! Based on the microcode I see, it's at least an ARM Cortex A5 quad-core CPU system. It might even be one of the Octo-core (i.e. 8 cores) designs as it is ABLE to do 30 fps!

Sony has ALWAYS been good on ADC/DAC/DSP chip design! I remember asking TI (Texas Instruments) for an ADC/DAC/DSP chip set for our high-orbit space cameras many years ago and they wanted $25,000 USD PER SET !!! A few days later I just went to Sony and asked for the 20-BIT ADC/DAC/DSP chip set used in one of their high end pro-level audio processors. It was $400 per chip set which means it was $24,600 USD CHEAPER AND it had better performance AND was a full 20 bits wide instead of 14 bits wide which meant HIGH QUALITY signal processing! We just repurposed multiple sets of the chips for ADC/DAC/DSP of 2.6K still photos and 1080p video!

I just stuck the chip sets in a tungsten shielded box along with a higher end Sony CCD sensor and UP it went! It's still there doing its thing 15 years later! Quality is STILL great for video and 2.6K stills. Lotsa "Fast Walkers" up there! Counted over 50 different planform types in crystal clear clarity over the years!

Now You Know!

V


----------



## BirdDudeJosh (Jan 26, 2021)

Lets see if it can really take advantage of the CF Express type A cards and clear the buffer or if it'll still be slow and lock you out of changing setting while clearing the buffer. Lets also see if they finally make a camera that wakes up from sleep or is able power on by the time get it to your eye like even the lowly R5 does. All Sonys literally take a full two count to wake up from sleep or hibernation I can't count the number of shots I have missed waiting for the camera to wake up of course you set the camera to stay on all the time for much shortened battery life. Still same wimpy Sony bodies, the only camera I ever had to send in for repair cause it couldn't handle a bump or two was the a7III and only lens to fail me was the 100-400 GM which went bad in a year and a half which I purchased new.


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## Quarkcharmed (Jan 26, 2021)

padam said:


> The Canon R1 will be higher positioned and different again, I would guess probably a bit less megapixels but definitely over 30 and with a global shutter for 8000$.


The R1 will have (or will need to have) about 45Mp like the R5 so that it does 8K, otherwise it'll be lagging behind the R5, not to mention the A1.


----------



## Joules (Jan 26, 2021)

HarryFilm said:


> ---
> 
> The 30 fps Burst Rate Stills bandwidth is usually a function of the DSP (Digital Signal Processor) and ADC/DAC (Analog-to-Digital and Digital-to-Analog Converter) chip speed which indicates how many gigasamples per second it can do and at what output bit-depth is creates.
> 
> ...


Man, you really have a way to go on wild tangents.  Thanks for sharing your industry insights... Or creative writing skills. That I don't know.

Anyway, to answer my own question, a quote from the official announcement :

"20 fps max. when shooting Uncompressed or Lossless compressed RAW"

So 30 FPS forces you to use their lossy compression format, which Google leads me to believe is always 12 bit.

Now I know.


----------



## padam (Jan 26, 2021)

Quarkcharmed said:


> The R1 will have (or will need to have) about 45Mp like the R5 so that it does 8K, otherwise it'll be lagging behind the R5, not to mention the A1.


It really does not if it offers superior Quad-Pixel AF and a global shutter.
It certainly will not use an R5 sensor and it will not have more megapixels than an R5 either, just because it is not 8K it does not mean it can't have other head-turning features.


----------



## mpmark (Jan 26, 2021)

The only reason I like Sony is that they brought me my R5 today rather then 5 years from now.


----------



## Joules (Jan 26, 2021)

BirdDudeJosh said:


> Looks like they have finally caught up with lossless compressed
> View attachment 195512


What do you mean?


----------



## f119a (Jan 26, 2021)

Hector1970 said:


> Impressive on paper anyway. It’s putting it up to Canon. It puts the R1 under pressure and makes the 1DXIII almost old fashioned. You’d need a lot of storage space. 1TB laptops will fill quite quickly. It’s so fast you wonder will it be robust . It must have some very fine engineering inside with tight tolerances . You could burn through 100,000 shutter cycles in no time. I look forward to the reviews especially its focus tracking abilities.


Well actually it does not need "very fine engineering"
because it's mechanical shutter still only goes up to 10fps, same as A9II.
However the superfast, anti-flickering, almost-no-distortion electronic shutter has eliminated most of the situations that require mechanical shutter.
Everything magical just happens on the CMOS nowadays.


----------



## blackcoffee17 (Jan 26, 2021)

Andy Westwood said:


> Sony Trumps Canon once more (ah! Should I have said that word, Trump! Lol) Sony first to announce the mirrorless 1! I watched the launch via CR live and certainly an impressive bit of kit.
> 
> Come on Canon! The bar is set to follow or surpass for the up-and-coming R1



Probably not that difficult to clear that bar. Just make an R5 with 50% faster burst speed and almost there.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 26, 2021)

I'm very likely to get an R1, but if it winds up having =<24mp, then I'm not going to bother. I am very impressed with the A1, but have too much glass in the RF system to consider it, so I'd just stick with the R5s if the R1 is lame. 

Things I hope this pushes Canon to do with its R1:
- All the stuff the R5 has +...
- 45mp + (really this was my big complaint prior to the A1)
- Better heat management for longer internal high bitrate video
- Antiflicker in electronic shutter, without lowering frame rate significantly
- Faster flash sync
- Pixelshift hi-res with in-camera processing
- Double CFexpress Type B cards


Things I hope it doesn't push Canon to add:
- 30 fps stills. Give me variable rate up to 20 fps, and I'm happy.
- Type A cards


Sony has a long tradition of timing release announcements (at least ones that aren't themselves tied to an actual shipping date) to imminent releases of competitor's offerings. They very much like to steal others' thunder. This might portend that they think Canon is going to announce the R1. As this will be launched in March, there doesn't seem to be another reason to have this sudden announcement.


----------



## StevenA (Jan 26, 2021)

The elephant in the room (one of them at least) is that the Alpha 1 is directed at the professional market but doesn't have a built-in battery grip so all that tech runs off of a single battery. This will force professionals to buy a grip adding extra cost to an already expensive body. Meanwhile, Canon and Nikon pro bodies come standard this way.


----------



## pixil studio (Jan 26, 2021)

does anyone else feel like the awful ergonomics of the sony makes it the whole line a non compete to canon. for someone who lives everyday with a camera in their hand id never switch from canon to sony for that exact reason no matter the specs


----------



## H. Jones (Jan 26, 2021)

My safe bet after seeing this is that Canon pulls off a 24-30 megapixel global shutter that can do up to 60 FPS full resolution uncompressed. The 1-series has never been about high resolution, and Canon knows their market. The megapixel war never won over that market segment, and it won't this time. 

Canon can, however, draw tons of high end users in with industry changing features like the global shutter and far higher FPS. 60 fps with an unlimited buffer is 100% doable at this point, especially at something like 30 megapixels.

Canon users like myself already have access or own an R5 for 20 fps 45 megapixel images, so I don't feel like Canon needs the R1 to compete the A1. The A1 already exists in Canon's lineup for almost half the price! 

The R1 instead should use the $6500-$7000 price range to give us global shutter, unlimited buffer, antiflicker at 60 FPS, 20 FPS mechanical, 0 delay 0 blackout huge viewfinder, full size grip, big batteries, and total weathersealing. That would sell me far faster than the A1 ever would.


----------



## StevenA (Jan 26, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> My safe bet after seeing this is that Canon pulls off a 24-30 megapixel global shutter that can do up to 60 FPS full resolution uncompressed. The 1-series has never been about high resolution, and Canon knows their market. The megapixel war never won over that market segment, and it won't this time.
> 
> Canon can, however, draw tons of high end users in with industry changing features like the global shutter and far higher FPS. 60 fps with an unlimited buffer is 100% doable at this point, especially at something like 30 megapixels.
> 
> ...



I think you are on to something here. Professional sports photographers do not want 50mpx but they will swap for higher frames and lower light. All else being equal (built in battery grip and connectivity). Canon knows this market better than Sony ever will.


----------



## usern4cr (Jan 26, 2021)

HarryFilm said:


> ---
> 
> The 30 fps Burst Rate Stills bandwidth is usually a function of the DSP (Digital Signal Processor) and ADC/DAC (Analog-to-Digital and Digital-to-Analog Converter) chip speed which indicates how many gigasamples per second it can do and at what output bit-depth is creates.
> 
> ...


You are saying that the Sony A1 has ~50MP x 4 pixel elements = 200M pixel elements? I find this *very hard* to believe. I think it will be the standard 50M pixel elements in a Bayer array which is de-bayer interpolated up to 50M rgb pixels, just like everyone else does. This isn't a Foveon sensor, which has 3 pixel elements on top of each other for a single pixel and has nothing to do with a Bayer pixel element array.


----------



## fox40phil (Jan 26, 2021)

tron said:


> It is my opinion that R5 is close to A1 for about half the money!


Even the AF of the A9I is better then this one of the R5. So... the AF of the A1 will be insane I think.
Also NO blackouts! 240Hz EVF with ~80% more resolution!!



pixil studio said:


> does anyone else feel like the awful ergonomics of the sony makes it the whole line a non compete to canon. for someone who lives everyday with a camera in their hand id never switch from canon to sony for that exact reason no matter the specs


Yep me2.... to small...like a toy and feels not so durable.

But anyway... I heavily hope, that Canons R1 can compete!! please! maybe in my next life... I will have a state of the art pro body with awesome Canon ergonomics


----------



## terminatahx (Jan 26, 2021)

Salute to Sony for pushing Canon....can't wait for the 1R!


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## HarryFilm (Jan 27, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> You are saying that the Sony A1 has ~50MP x 4 pixel elements = 200M pixel elements? I find this *very hard* to believe. I think it will be the standard 50M pixel elements in a Bayer array which is de-bayer interpolated up to 50M rgb pixels, just like everyone else does. This isn't a Foveon sensor, which has 3 pixel elements on top of each other for a single pixel and has nothing to do with a Bayer pixel element array.



--

Even IF it's a Bayer Array you STILL have to do each RGBG channel separately at each photosite for output and processing by the container file format CODEC. And Sony's OWN documentation says around 50 million active pixels which are part of a Bayer Array which means 4 channels must be processed per each pixel by the DSP/ADC/DAC. My math PROBABLY still stands unless someone else offers a better explanation based upon more or different documentation.

V


----------



## snappy604 (Jan 27, 2021)

looks like a solid camera and we won't know how good/bad it is until people get their hands on it and test widely... however simply looking at specs, it is similar to the R5, its not mindblowingly better for a fair bit more money. And it's ok, not every generation needs to be, polish/evolution has its uses...

There are definitely things I'd like to see but how much they offer is a good question. 50 vs 45 MP..

not significant at that level.. 30 FPS ... canon's 20FPS is almost too much, I and others would like to see a bit of a reduction in some ways as it generates a heck of a lot of files to sort through.. don't get me wrong, I love.... but man what a headache, don't really thing going to 30 will help me

the flash stuff I think is something I'd find useful

video seems similar spec wise

so solid camera, bit pricey... but how good it really is will only show up when people start testing it widely.


----------



## usern4cr (Jan 27, 2021)

I'm glad Sony came out with this A1. It will keep up the pressure for Canon to come out with the absolute best features it possibly can in the new R1 and R5s. The one feature I like the most in the A1 is the EVF - Not only is it 9M pixel elements but it gives a much wider angle of view and 240 FPS which should make it an absolute joy to look through. If that alone causes Canon to come out with a similar hires wider angle of view EVF at 120 (or higher) FPS then I will jump for joy! It'd also be nice if Canon came out with a higher res & bigger back LCD.

But I don't care for Sony ergonomics or lack of build quality, and I'm already very invested in the Canon R5 & RF lenses, so I won't even consider getting Sony equipment. The one thing I was really glad to see is that the A1 does NOT have a fully articulating screen. That's the thing I have to have and why I am happy with Canon since they have it. There are a lot of people who prefer the Sony style pull out&down LCD, so they should be happy with Sony - Hey, whatever "floats your boat"!


----------



## raptor3x (Jan 27, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> The R1 instead should use the $6500-$7000 price range to give us global shutter, unlimited buffer, antiflicker at 60 FPS, 20 FPS mechanical, 0 delay 0 blackout huge viewfinder, full size grip, big batteries, and total weathersealing. That would sell me far faster than the A1 ever would.



If the camera had a global shutter, what would be the point of a mechanical shutter?


----------



## reef58 (Jan 27, 2021)

Quarkcharmed said:


> The R1 will have (or will need to have) about 45Mp like the R5 so that it does 8K, otherwise it'll be lagging behind the R5, not to mention the A1.



I guess if Canon is engaged in some sort of spec war. If they want to sell 1 series cameras to their core customer base it will be closer to 30 than 45. The market is ever changing though so who knows?


----------



## HarryFilm (Jan 27, 2021)

Joules said:


> Man, you really have a way to go on wild tangents.  Thanks for sharing your industry insights... Or creative writing skills. That I don't know.
> 
> Anyway, to answer my own question, a quote from the official announcement :
> 
> ...



The ADC/DAC/DSP will LIKELY process at the full bit-width initially and sub-sample down to 12 bits at the output stage.

In terms of "Lossy Compression" I would say it's more a factor of reduced bit-width than an actual higher video frame compression cycle that allows the BIONZ processor on the Sony A-1 to achieve 30 fps. I KNOW that it is AT LEAST an ARM Cortex A5 quad-core AND MAY be an Octo-core processor (i.e. 8 CPU cores!) so that is a FAAAAAST processing chip probably doing anywhere from 1.0 GHz up to 1.5 GHz clock speed!

Sony is VERY VERY VERY GOOD at signal processing. They have been doing this since the 1980's so I have no accusation that Sony is "faking" their processing abilities. They KNOW their stuff!

Again, this is a VERY VERY GOOD CAMERA !!!!

BUT...... The Canon R5 is BETTER because it is 4:2:2 at DCI 8K 1.89 aspect ratio at 8192 by 4320 pixels which is DEFINITELY more Hollywood Cinema B/C/Crash Cam friendly than the Sony A-1.

For stills imaging, I use the Canon R5 DCI 8K video mode on the R5 to get me 30 fps equivalent Burst Rate as my cropped 5442 by 4320 pixels (23+ megapixels) still photo images which I can submit to my side-job Web and Magazine editors EVERYWHERE once I colour correct and crop them to a 3:2 aspect ratio! If I am doing 2.35:1 panoramic/super-wide photos I just crop them to 8192 by 3486 pixels (i.e. 28.6 Megapixels) for my double page magazine spreads (i.e. for the super-wide F1, skiing, motorbike and powerboat racing imagery). And so far, no-one has complained YET on the megapixel counts for the images I have submitted and had accepted/paid for publication!

I should note we USED TO submit SIX MEGAPIXEL DSLR photos for major printed magazine spreads! This megapixel race is getting ridiculous! You really only need for most online work about 20 megapixels since most CURRENT Television and Computer displays are still 1920 by 1080 or 4K displays which max out at about 8 to 10 megapixels!

And since the Canon R5 is MUCH CHEAPER than the Sony A-1, if you are a stills photographer, the R5 makes more financial sense for prosumers and professionals!

Plus the Canon R5 is MORE RUGGED being better weather sealed and has a MUCH MUCH BETTER GRIP!

Canon STILL Wins This Round !!!!

V


----------



## Billybob (Jan 27, 2021)

pixil studio said:


> does anyone else feel like the awful ergonomics of the sony makes it the whole line a non compete to canon. for someone who lives everyday with a camera in their hand id never switch from canon to sony for that exact reason no matter the specs


To each their own. I used Sony for years without a concern about its ergonomics. I do like R5 ergos better but the A7rIII's were okay, and the rIV (like the A9II) were much improved. So, I go with you in claiming that Canon's ergos are better, but Sony's are far from awful, and I for one have had no problem working with A-series cameras all day. 

I'm extremely impressed with the A1. I was thinking about taking a 10am break Wed morning to place an order, but I'm willing to wait for the Canon R1 (and release/announcements of RF Big White lenses). I'm not sure if Canon can match or exceed that stacked sensor and the A9-level AF, but if this camera had been released before the R5, I probably would have stayed with Sony (I was begging for at least 36MP of resolution with that stacked sensor, so 50MP is almost irresistable). As it is now, I'm loving my RF lenses, and the R5 is without a doubt the best full-frame camera under $4000 U.S.


----------



## jam05 (Jan 27, 2021)

Now that you've got that out of the way, your mission, should you choose to accept is to find more info on the R1 and the R5 updates.


----------



## analoggrotto (Jan 27, 2021)

First impression : Holy supernatural specifications! 

Second impression : that SAME beta-type body. 

Sony has well earned it's position in the market. This might take a while for Canon to catch up to. 

No doubt the first copies of this will be going to AP. 

Your move, Canon.


----------



## tron (Jan 27, 2021)

fox40phil said:


> Even the AF of the A9I is better then this one of the R5. So... the AF of the A1 will be insane I think.
> Also NO blackouts! 240Hz EVF with ~80% more resolution!!
> ...


As you said: You think! You cannot know. As if R5 is not good enough.
Also EVFs do not take the picture. Their resolution is irrelevant. 
NO blackouts are useful. But i didn't notice anything annoying with the R5 EVF at 120Hz.


----------



## slclick (Jan 27, 2021)

Has anyone else noticed the uptick of the phrase 'elephant in the room' around here as of late?


----------



## Besisika (Jan 27, 2021)

tron said:


> It is my opinion that R5 is close to A1 for about half the money!


That is an interesting statement. I took the time to really think about it and, it is hard for me to justify the price difference, given the way I use my camera. Would you really spend almost 3K more to get the difference?
There must be someone willing to spend the money, otherwise they wouldn't have came up with the figure.

With that said, there is a feature or two that, my opinion, given how I use my camera, worth mentioning.
These are: 1/400th sec mechanical and 1/200th electronic sync speed.
I hope Sony users will finally learn how to use a strobe, given that they now posess the best tool to get available light contribution high enough for natural looking strobe work. At 400th sec, you can freeze any unintended model movement, for natural light contribution to go high enough.
Besides, the electronic shutter with strobe would deliver great ability for dynamic posing, even for dancers. Your strobe will flash 30 times per sec. I am wondering for how long and at what power. Godox will have to come up with something stronger.
I wish Canon would go for these two innovations on their future cameras someday.


----------



## tataylino (Jan 27, 2021)

The naming is now confusing...
a5 < a7 < a9 < a1
it should be a10? haha


----------



## H. Jones (Jan 27, 2021)

raptor3x said:


> If the camera had a global shutter, what would be the point of a mechanical shutter?



Ha, great point. This is part of why I think global shutter is so important and industry changing, it totally removes the need for any moving parts in a camera. Even with my strong support of it, I'm stuck in an old frame of mind that it will make obsolete! 

I do wonder if Canon would keep the shutter as a sort of electronic sensor cover when lenses are changed or power is turned off, I love that feature on my R5. Maybe they could easily design a sensor cover that's one big piece to seal the sensor without worrying about shutter blades breaking.


----------



## Mr Majestyk (Jan 27, 2021)

RIP 1DXIII and D6. Not a snowball's chance in hell that the R1 will even offer more than 24MP when it eventually gets here next year. I wonder if Nikon can actually offer something like this? Still R5 holds up well on specs and looks good value.


----------



## David - Sydney (Jan 27, 2021)

I am wondering about the CFe A vs B cards. CFe A cards in the A7siii is fine as it doesn't have the high bandwidth that the R5 does. 
CFe B cards are relatively available in the market compared to CFe A cards.
CFe B cards are cheaper - at least last time I checked
CFe B cards have a higher bandwidth as they have 2 PCIe lanes vs 1 on the CFe A cards
=> CFe B = top 2GB/s vs CFe A cards @ 1GB/S
Canon have always formally qualified the higher write speed CFe B cards/OEMs which have generally been the larger card capacities although my 128GB Sony Tough has 1440MB/s write speed

From testing by The Digital Picture, the R5 has buffer depth of shots and seconds of shooting as:

20 fps RAW > CFexpress1467.320 fps RAW > SD1105.5

8k/raw DCI and 4K120 can only write to the CFe B card without any cinema compression without using the buffer.

It will be interesting what the CFe A cards can achieve in the A1


----------



## usern4cr (Jan 27, 2021)

HarryFilm said:


> --
> 
> Even IF it's a Bayer Array you STILL have to do each RGBG channel separately at each photosite for output and processing by the container file format CODEC. And Sony's OWN documentation says around 50 million active pixels which are part of a Bayer Array which means 4 channels must be processed per each pixel by the DSP/ADC/DAC. My math PROBABLY still stands unless someone else offers a better explanation based upon more or different documentation.
> 
> V


Why would you output 50MP at 16 x 3 = 48 bits per pixel after up-sizing from the Bayer pixel elements? And there is NO reason to output 16 x 4 = 64 bits per pixel as both G pixel elements are green and you just have one final G value per up-sized RGB pixel. Just output the friggin raw file @ 16 bits per pixel element to avoid bloating it up by a factor of 3x. Or output a lossless compressed raw at < 16 bits per pixel element. Also, who outputs the entire 3:2 screen for video (assuming you're talking about video)? They always chop it down to something wider, like 16:9 so a huge chunk of the pixels aren't stored (or even needing any processing at all) in the video stream anyway.


----------



## mpeeps (Jan 27, 2021)

Random Orbits said:


> I love the speed of the CFE card, but I'm traveling, I'm bringing the laptop, which only has a SD slot. I shoot to both cards or copy from one to the other when I have down time, but it's nice to have something I can put into the laptop without lugging around another adapter/dongle.


I emailed Prograde to request a 3 way dongle; sd, cf, and cfe. I haven't heard back. Anyone aware of a 3 way??


----------



## dilbert (Jan 27, 2021)

HarryFilm said:


> It also means the Canon R5 is STILL THE SUPERIOR CAMERA, since I get Hollywood Cinema-specific DCI 8k (1.89:1 aspect ratio 8192 by 4320 pixels) recording AND up-to-45 minutes at 8K when I put in our CF-express slot to external 4TB SSD-drive system on it which removes the R5 card slot file save limits! The Sony only has UHDTV 16:9 aspect ratios for 8K and 4K video.



Nobody in Hollywood shoots a 30 minute take. Gravity had a long take and that was 17 minutes.

The kind of people that might do 45 minutes are amateurs, Youtubers, wedding photographers (maybe.)


----------



## Rzrsharp (Jan 27, 2021)

Will not buy a Sony until it(s)
1) Color is correct, no greenish and yellowish to skintone
2) Change from PDAF to DPAF. Existing sony PDAF eat the stars, they are dead spots.
3) Price is cheaper than half. It's overpriced at least 2x more.


----------



## AEWest (Jan 27, 2021)

[email protected] said:


> I'm very likely to get an R1, but if it winds up having =<24mp, then I'm not going to bother. I am very impressed with the A1, but have too much glass in the RF system to consider it, so I'd just stick with the R5s if the R1 is lame.
> 
> Things I hope this pushes Canon to do with its R1:
> - All the stuff the R5 has +...
> ...


If the A1 is set to come out March 1st, I fully expect to see a Canon R1 development announcement sometime towards the end of February. They've got to steal some thunder!


----------



## an0nymes (Jan 27, 2021)

fox40phil said:


> Also NO blackouts! 240Hz EVF with ~80% more resolution!!



240Hz mode have only about half resolution of R5 EVF, it is 1600x1200 unless change frame rate to lower and slightly narrower field of view (40°vs33°).


----------



## raptor3x (Jan 27, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> Ha, great point. This is part of why I think global shutter is so important and industry changing, it totally removes the need for any moving parts in a camera. Even with my strong support of it, I'm stuck in an old frame of mind that it will make obsolete!
> 
> I do wonder if Canon would keep the shutter as a sort of electronic sensor cover when lenses are changed or power is turned off, I love that feature on my R5. Maybe they could easily design a sensor cover that's one big piece to seal the sensor without worrying about shutter blades breaking.



Yeah, they could replace the shutter with a much beefier retractable cover and/or some kind of built in ND filter. You'll still have some moving parts in the camera though either way as I don't think IBIS is going away.


----------



## unfocused (Jan 27, 2021)

dilbert said:


> Nobody in Hollywood shoots a 30 minute take. Gravity had a long take and that was 17 minutes...


Birdman


----------



## H. Jones (Jan 27, 2021)

raptor3x said:


> Yeah, they could replace the shutter with a much beefier retractable cover and/or some kind of built in ND filter. You'll still have some moving parts in the camera though either way as I don't think IBIS is going away.


Great point on the ND filters, they could totally replace the shutter mechanism in the R1 with ND filters, especially considering the extra space that the 1D series bodies give you. A quick look at the C70 shows that it's totally possible for them to include ND filters in the R1. Plus, the R1 pricepoint would give room to let that happen, since even $3000 cinema bodies like the C100 have NDs, the R1 is definitely up market enough to get them.

The ND filters could go over the shutter when powered off, to protect the sensor from dust. It would be easy to clean, too, since the ND filters are just glass.


----------



## H. Jones (Jan 27, 2021)

dilbert said:


> Nobody in Hollywood shoots a 30 minute take. Gravity had a long take and that was 17 minutes.
> 
> The kind of people that might do 45 minutes are amateurs, Youtubers, wedding photographers (maybe.)



I have plenty of examples of shooting two-hour takes when shooting multiple studio interviews on two C200s at work. Doing interviews in one take ensures we get everything, and audio sync is far easier between the two cameras with one long take versus multiple smaller ones. 

Documentary work is another example of this. I've filmed on set of multiple feature length documentaries where we let the cameras roll non-stop for multiple hours at a time, limited only by the multi-hour battery life of the BP-A60 on the C200. There's a lot of scenarios for cinema vérité where things quite literally only happen once, where 30 minutes just doesn't cut it. 

The end of the day, this is definitely something that makes cinema cameras far more conducive to my work than fumbling with cameras with far shorter battery life and far shorter record times. The end result may not be a 17 minute take, but I've been in countless situations where if we stop rolling we will miss the shot.


----------



## edoorn (Jan 27, 2021)

unfocused said:


> Birdman


Longest take in that film is about 15 mins, most were 10.

Anyway, seems like a great true flagship camera. Impressive package and happy that the bar is raised.

I’m quite sure the R1 will be a good rival when that comes out. Could have less mpix, which should not be that big of an issue for the target market, but integrated grip, quad pixel af and global shutter should make for a compelling proposition. For me personally these type of camera’s are above my needs, happy to rock a few R5’s the next few years and at some point might pick up a second hand R1. Mostly looking forward to the new long tele lenses that could be released alongside an R1


----------



## KT (Jan 27, 2021)

PerKr said:


> Honestly not impressed. I expected to be. But this is more or less a somewhat upgraded A9. A9 with higher resolution and faster sensor (to allow 1/200s flash sync) and 8k that's not on the level of the R5. And the price... I mean, it's a great camera, it's just not that impressive given what the A9 and R5 already achieved. Seems like a pretty easy target for the R1 to hit?
> 
> Also, I don't understand why they did not make this the A9mkIII and instead decided to mess their naming conventions up. Why do it now, after so many years of 5-, 7- and 9-series in both A and E mount? especially since it's designed and priced as an A9mkII successor. It's like they just looked at Canon and said "let's be more like Canon. On the surface."


The name change was necessary in order to be mentioned in the same sentence with the upcoming Canon R1, A9 III just wouldn't have cut it.


----------



## quilatoo (Jan 27, 2021)

Damn, I was hoping they might have priced it more aggressively and got the ball rolling with Canon to start discounting the R5 a little. Oh well, more time to save up!


----------



## Fischer (Jan 27, 2021)

Besisika said:


> With that said, there is a feature or two that, my opinion, given how I use my camera, worth mentioning.
> These are: 1/400th sec mechanical and 1/200th electronic sync speed.


Agree, this is really a break through. I used flash a lot before. And I always thought it was a huge set back when digital cameras suddenly meant going from 1/250 or 1/320 to 1/200. Now we can have the fabeld 1/400 for swirly hair and skirts, swinging bags etc.


----------



## Joules (Jan 27, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> Why would you output 50MP at 16 x 3 = 48 bits per pixel after up-sizing from the Bayer pixel elements? And there is NO reason to output 16 x 4 = 64 bits per pixel as both G pixel elements are green and you just have one final G value per up-sized RGB pixel. Just output the friggin raw file @ 16 bits per pixel element to avoid bloating it up by a factor of 3x. Or output a lossless compressed raw at < 16 bits per pixel element. Also, who outputs the entire 3:2 screen for video (assuming you're talking about video)? They always chop it down to something wider, like 16:9 so a huge chunk of the pixels aren't stored (or even needing any processing at all) in the video stream anyway.


I think that's just Harry saying Harry things. Don't question it too much


----------



## Fischer (Jan 27, 2021)

Well, well. Looks very nice indeed. I now worry - like 2.500$ worry - what this might do to the price of the high MPIX R.


----------



## Patlezinc (Jan 27, 2021)

festr said:


> 9M EVF is amazing. I really hope the canon will release firmware with log3 and lighraw


I think it is totally useless, as some reported with the A7s. Some things have already reached their maturity and adding more is just a spec war.


----------



## Patlezinc (Jan 27, 2021)

The R5 is not really ridiculous tbh. this A1 is for aliens, not normal poeple. Or Olympics pro guys of course. And look at the specs, it will overheat too


----------



## PerKr (Jan 27, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> My safe bet after seeing this is that Canon pulls off a 24-30 megapixel global shutter that can do up to 60 FPS full resolution uncompressed. The 1-series has never been about high resolution, and Canon knows their market. The megapixel war never won over that market segment, and it won't this time.



You forget the 1Ds which was all about high resolution vs the 1D which was all about speed.



Besisika said:


> With that said, there is a feature or two that, my opinion, given how I use my camera, worth mentioning.
> These are: 1/400th sec mechanical and 1/200th electronic sync speed.
> I hope Sony users will finally learn how to use a strobe, given that they now posess the best tool to get available light contribution high enough for natural looking strobe work. At 400th sec, you can freeze any unintended model movement, for natural light contribution to go high enough.
> Besides, the electronic shutter with strobe would deliver great ability for dynamic posing, even for dancers. Your strobe will flash 30 times per sec. I am wondering for how long and at what power. Godox will have to come up with something stronger.
> I wish Canon would go for these two innovations on their future cameras someday.



While it adds something on a bright day vs going to a smaller aperture and adjusting flash output accordingly, I don't think the difference between 1/400 and 1/300 is huge. For movement, it's mostly about the flash anyway. 1/400s is still not fast enough to shoot at large apertures in bright sunlight, we need global shutter for this (or indeed leaf shutter but there aren't many options for that)

As for shooting with strobes at 30fps, didn't Sony demonstrate this with the original A9? You'd need to have your strobe turned down close to minimum output to use it but in the situations you actuatlly need to combine flash and 30fps I suppose you have enough control of your surroundings to work around that. Or you could just stick with a slower speed, say 10-12 fps, and not have your flash inconveniently run out of juice or overheat.


----------



## PerKr (Jan 27, 2021)

KT said:


> The name change was necessary in order to be mentioned in the same sentence with the upcoming Canon R1, A9 III just wouldn't have cut it.



By that logic, Nikon should never have went D2, D3, D4, D5, D6 but stayed at D1. They really should have, but not for that reason.

The A9 mkI and mkII were already mentioned along with the 1D series, the name was never the issue. The 9-series being their professional line was a given, just as it was before E-mount and dating back to 1985 with Minolta's first A-mount body aimed at professional photographers. Actually being consistent in this was a strength.

But I suppose if they keep the A9 series, which I doubt since the A9 and A1 are just a bit too similar, and avoid adding an A3 and A5 below the A7 series they can manage to still make sense of it. Or, more likely, they will need to reverse their numbering system, which really is a shame.


----------



## degos (Jan 27, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> The 1-series has never been about high resolution, and Canon knows their market.



The 1D series was all about the highest resolution until the 1DX, when Canon had to change the marketing story due to technical limitations.

No 1DX camera has even matched the pixel density of the 1D4 or the overall resolution of the 1Ds3...


----------



## Traveler (Jan 27, 2021)

Great marketing strategy! A lot of rich influencers and famous photographers will buy this as an ultimate camera and people usually buy the brand that famous people use. 
It’s pity that Canons flagship is gonna be huge and heavy. Great for the olympics but unusable for the people who are the most “visible”.


----------



## 12Broncos (Jan 27, 2021)

Maps said:


> Disappointed that it wasn't something that will pressure the R5/6 pricing downwards. R5 is now a “budget” option.





Hector1970 said:


> Impressive on paper anyway. It’s putting it up to Canon. It puts the R1 under pressure and makes the 1DXIII almost old fashioned. You’d need a lot of storage space. 1TB laptops will fill quite quickly. It’s so fast you wonder will it be robust . It must have some very fine engineering inside with tight tolerances . You could burn through 100,000 shutter cycles in no time. I look forward to the reviews especially its focus tracking abilities.


It puts pressure on both Nikon and Canon. I'm leaning towards a Nikon Z9 when it comes, but by Sony standards of the A1, the Nikon Z9 is already outdated and will cost the same. If Nikon tries to compete it will have to change the release date pushing its back even farther than what it is now. I'm tired of not having an announcement for eight/nine months.


----------



## tron (Jan 27, 2021)

A1 looks more like a R5 Mark 1n or Mark II as another member suggested already.

Nothing so impressive that we have to feel R5 is inadequate or that R1 has to materialize now...


----------



## slclick (Jan 27, 2021)

Traveler said:


> Great marketing strategy! A lot of rich influencers and famous photographers will buy this as an ultimate camera and people usually buy the brand that famous people use.
> It’s pity that Canons flagship is gonna be huge and heavy. Great for the olympics but unusable for the people who are the most “visible”.


assuming here


----------



## slclick (Jan 27, 2021)

The logic behind an expensive item's price (R5) being deemed suddenly affordable due to another items launch (Sony A1) without a cost decrease of the former is ricockulous.

So many analogies are at my disposal here...smh


----------



## Random Orbits (Jan 27, 2021)

mpeeps said:


> I emailed Prograde to request a 3 way dongle; sd, cf, and cfe. I haven't heard back. Anyone aware of a 3 way??



I have ProGrade's SD/CFE reader and it is fast. However, everything in that path must be to the same high standard or else you won't get the full speed (i.e. usb port on the computer side). When I got the reader, there weren't many options that supported full speed and read both SD and CFE.

I'm not aware of a 3-way, but then I sold off the 5D4 after getting the R5 and kept the R as backup. Having RF bodies gives the most flexibility for lenses and the R5 is a worthy successor.


----------



## AccipiterQ (Jan 27, 2021)

Treyarnon said:


> So... its basically a 5DS for 3 times the price, with less noise, more DR and a few more frames per sec



I mean, less noise and more DR aren't to be scoffed at....


----------



## usern4cr (Jan 27, 2021)

Joules said:


> I think that's just Harry saying Harry things. Don't question it too much


I have to agree - "It's just Harry being Harry!" 
In fact, some of his intricately detailed posts are so hilarious in the combined brilliance & absurdity that I really miss seeing more of them! 

So come on, Harry, what else ya' got for us?


----------



## Random Orbits (Jan 27, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Why not just connect the camera directly to the computer, built in card reader!



A few reasons, with none of them being deal-breakers. I primarily use this workflow when I'm not home. When I'm home, I have the ProGrade reader and that works fast. No issue there. When I'm travelling, I'm usually using the downtime at the hotel to charge up all the batteries each evening and to start editing photos. I love the R5, but the battery does not last as long compared to the 5D4. The laptop is old, which means it does not support the faster data rates for USB, so it's going to take a while to transfer from the camera to the laptop no matter what the camera supports. Plus it would rely on a cable, which I have forgotten to pack before. I have never forgotten to pack the charger, cameras, lenses, etc., but cables I don't use often....

The current laptop is one of those Costco specials. I got it for the price and it served as a 2nd computer the family occasionally used. When I got it, I knew it was slower than my years-old desktop at the time (SSD vs. HDD, etc.) but I didn't have high expectations for it. I also chose it for it's large screen, which makes it unable to fit in my preferred camera bags, so we're bringing a laptop bag too when travelling. So the next laptop will have to have fast SSD or M.2 memory and have a screen with a max size of 15 in. I've looked at the Surface laptop and at some Dell xps. This laptop will be used by my daughter who is entering high school this fall (the school systems furnished Chrome books that they use through middle school and they are awful; they are on their own for high school), so it will be used a lot. The Microsoft upgrade SSD prices are ridiculous, and they make it difficult to do it yourself, and they don't have a card reader, which would steer me toward the Dell.

I can't see laptops of the future offering CFE readers. If anything, we'll have to go to an external reader or to the cable to the camera, but as long as it's available, it gives a bit of convenience.


----------



## AEWest (Jan 27, 2021)

Random Orbits said:


> I'm not aware of a 3-way, but then I sold off the 5D4 after getting the R5 and kept the R as backup. Having RF bodies gives the most flexibility for lenses and the R5 is a worthy successor.


Be careful about calling the R5 a successor to the 5D4. There are many still holding out hope for a 5D5!


----------



## dilbert (Jan 27, 2021)

unfocused said:


> Birdman











Birdman: See All The Places Where The Camera Actually Cut


Last year’s Best Picture Oscar went to Birdman. While the film has some great performances that had a lot to do with that, another reason the film was so popular among movies fans was that it wa




www.cinemablend.com


----------



## dilbert (Jan 27, 2021)

StevenA said:


> The elephant in the room (one of them at least) is that the Alpha 1 is directed at the professional market but doesn't have a built-in battery grip so all that tech runs off of a single battery. This will force professionals to buy a grip adding extra cost to an already expensive body. Meanwhile, Canon and Nikon pro bodies come standard this way.



The Canon EOS 1V did not have the grip integrated.

When the Canon 1Ds launched, price tag was $7999. Mark II and Mark III came out at the same price.

Not having the grip integrated will be a result of customer feedback saying that phiotographers want the option of it not being there.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 27, 2021)

iheartcanon said:


> Might be just me, but this makes me even happier with my R5. The specs sound good, but this is as good as it gets for them and it is 7,5k euro.
> 
> Nothing makes me feel as though I am missing out with the R5. And there is still the R1 to come.


I feel the same way. The R5 focus system is proving to be 99% accurate. Other feature sets are at least adequate or excellent. Very happy with my upgrade from the 5D III.


----------



## DBounce (Jan 27, 2021)

$ony’s biggest mistake was pricing this body to compete squarely against the upcoming R1. Not too smart imo. Even as, I think few will ante up the $7,000 (tax) for this body. Worst still, it cost near as makes no difference to $9k in Europe.
I own several Alpha bodies. But I am not even considering this body. It will overheat in 8K just like the A7S III overheats in prolonged 4K @120P.... it uses the same heat sink. And is in essentially the exact same body. This should have been priced to compete with the R5... not R1.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 27, 2021)

StevenA said:


> The elephant in the room (one of them at least) is that the Alpha 1 is directed at the professional market but doesn't have a built-in battery grip so all that tech runs off of a single battery. This will force professionals to buy a grip adding extra cost to an already expensive body. Meanwhile, Canon and Nikon pro bodies come standard this way.



As a former owner of a bunch of 1-series bodies, I can say I preferred the A9's flexibility with being able to add or subtract a grip. I did NOT like the A9's lack of weather sealing around that interface, though. 

I primarily shoot the R5 now, and the weather sealing between grip and body appears to be pretty darned good, and that is the best of both words for me. Lets me choose. I know this is anathema for pros who want to look pro, but when doing events, I like to have one r5 gripped and the other on a belt holster, and gripped cameras stink on a holster.


----------



## woodman411 (Jan 27, 2021)

Why would read speeds be increased to the point of eliminating rolling shutter (according to the press release) but still not have global shutter? This seems like a rushed release, like they almost got to global shutter for this price point but didn't quite make it, so they had to throw in a second- rate mechanical shutter. And who wants to process 30fps at 50MP? I think Canon is doing the right thing with the R1 to wait for a proper global shutter at this price point. For the target audience (professional sports), global shutter and qpaf and yes lower MP will be much more compelling than the A1.


----------



## [email protected] (Jan 27, 2021)

It appears to me (I'm the guy who did those tests for all the CFe brands on the R5) that the buffer is about the same in terms of gross memory between the A1 and the R5. We'll see when we get an A1 in hand to test. But the CFe A card is going to have 1/2 the performance of the CFe B cards, so the buffer will clear in 2x the time it takes to clear the buffer on the R5. 

That said, the best cards clear the R5 buffer in 4-6 seconds, so doubling that is not too terrible. The data you cite below in The Digital Picture table must have used one of the slower cards. The better data we have indicates that the A1, after shooting for about 5 seconds, will need to clear buffer for about 8-12 seconds, depending on how fast your card is. It should be noted that the ONLY card manufacturer making CFe A cards is Sony. I've tested them in an A7s III, and they're pretty good (if expensive and not terribly large). Sony's CFe B cards are among the fastest in that category. 

Most realistically, people aren't going to be shooting in 30 fps. They're more likely to be shooting at lower rates because, well, sanity. As a result, they'll likely take more like 8 seconds to fill a buffer and another 8 to clear it. If you burst on and off, you might manage to not hit the end of the buffer, but you're likely to hit it much more often than you do in the R5. The R5, by the way, is fantastic in this regard. I'm a long-time perpetrator of spray-and-pray with wildlife shooting, and I come against the buffer so infrequently, that I've done entire shoots mistakenly writing to my SD card and never noticed because the large cache was protecting me from hitting the wall.

Updated data on R5 CFexpress performance across brands here. They'll be adding the CFe Type A data shortly, as well as data on Nikon and Panasonic CFe Type B performance (which wasn't great). 





David - Sydney said:


> I am wondering about the CFe A vs B cards. CFe A cards in the A7siii is fine as it doesn't have the high bandwidth that the R5 does.
> CFe B cards are relatively available in the market compared to CFe A cards.
> CFe B cards are cheaper - at least last time I checked
> CFe B cards have a higher bandwidth as they have 2 PCIe lanes vs 1 on the CFe A cards
> ...


----------



## Random Orbits (Jan 27, 2021)

AEWest said:


> Be careful about calling the R5 a successor to the 5D4. There are many still holding out hope for a 5D5!



True! However, I think the time for Canon producing a 5D5 has passed. It would have made sense if Canon had codeveloped the 5D5 as the mirrored version of the R5: same sensor, IBIS, frame rate, etc. However, mirrorless are cheaper to produce, so the price of the 5D5 would also have to be at least as much as the R5, and that's where I think the problem is (Nikon's 780 cost more than Z6 too). It would also have the same problem as the 1DX3, which has better tracking AF (face/animal) with the mirror up than while in DSLR mode. R bodies have the most flexible lens setups: EF and RF. A true 5D5 would be stuck with EF only. A EF-only user would only have to leave the EF/RF adaptor permanently on the R5. My EF lenses (before I sold them) worked better on the R5 than the 5D4 for focusing. There isn't as much a downside for a Canon-user adapting EF glass compared to Nikon users moving the Z system and losing AF with their screw-drive lenses.

There are some photography use-cases that would suffer with the move to mirrorless, such as wildlife where users are waiting hours to get the shot, but they probably aren't large enough of a market to warrant the deveopment of a 5D5 on their own. If Canon was still developing EF lenses, then it would be a different story.


----------



## Joules (Jan 27, 2021)

woodman411 said:


> Why would read speeds be increased to the point of eliminating rolling shutter (according to the press release) but still not have global shutter? This seems like a rushed release, like they almost got to global shutter for this price point but didn't quite make it, so they had to throw in a second- rate mechanical shutter. And who wants to process 30fps at 50MP? I think Canon is doing the right thing with the R1 to wait for a proper global shutter at this price point. For the target audience (professional sports), global shutter and qpaf and yes lower MP will be much more compelling than the A1.


A global shutter is a completely different technology compared to Sonys stacked one. Calling this rushed does not seem acurate. I would wait and see if Canon actually pulls of a global shutter and what that means for image quality and cost in the real world. Before we can see what compromises go along with each of the approaches, it is not possible to evaluate the choices made here. So if Sony believes their stacked design is the better option, that may well be an informed decision and not at all 'rushed'.


----------



## mpeeps (Jan 27, 2021)

Random Orbits said:


> I have ProGrade's SD/CFE reader and it is fast. However, everything in that path must be to the same high standard or else you won't get the full speed (i.e. usb port on the computer side). When I got the reader, there weren't many options that supported full speed and read both SD and CFE.
> 
> I'm not aware of a 3-way, but then I sold off the 5D4 after getting the R5 and kept the R as backup. Having RF bodies gives the most flexibility for lenses and the R5 is a worthy successor.


The Prograde is fast. Must be the 3.0. It also gets quite warm.


----------



## stevelee (Jan 27, 2021)

unfocused said:


> Birdman


Rope


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jan 27, 2021)

DBounce said:


> $ony’s biggest mistake was pricing this body to compete squarely against the upcoming R1. Not too smart imo. Even as, I think few will ante up the $7,000 (tax) for this body. Worst still, it cost near as makes no difference to $9k in Europe.
> I own several Alpha bodies. But I am not even considering this body.


What you say makes a lot of sense but imagine having none of those bodies.
This one camera can replace A9 II, A7R iV, A7S III, and FX9.
A1 is short of each of those cameras but it looks like a steal next to that collection of cameras.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jan 27, 2021)

Aaron D said:


> Wonderful camera but I don't know where I'm going to put it. I'm buying cameras faster than I can clear space for them.
> 
> But why Alpha 1? Where did Sony learn to count?


A1>A9>A7>A6400
It kind of puts Canon in a bind.
R1 is expected to be the flagship but it is also expected to be a mirrorless 1DX.
I guess they could have an R1 and an RS1 or they can just consider A1 an overpriced R5.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jan 27, 2021)

Aussie shooter said:


> Sounds impressive. That is for sure. Ergonomics and build quality will be important of course. But 30fps!!!!??


30 FPS is for lossy compressed RAW.
Lossless RAW only goes up to 20 FPS


----------



## melgross (Jan 27, 2021)

padam said:


> They actually do compete somewhat, in the sense that they are both represented as all-in-one cameras.
> There is no other model in the Sony line-up like this one, it is either all-in on photo or video, but not both at the same time at this high level.
> 
> So Canon providing a camera like this at a significantly lower price point will make it very attractive for many people who aren't very concerned about overheating.
> ...



I doubt they chose that price specifically because of the 1Dx. They chose it because they finally decided that it was time to enter the “big boy” camera market against Canon and Nikon, and, at the same time, beat them to the flagship mirrorless market. And that’s what those cameras cost, plus or minus $500.

Whoever is first has the pole position. It’s the only reason why Sony leads the mirrorless market now. I hope nobody really thinks that if Canon, Nikon and Sony started out at the same time in mirrorless that Sony would be in the position they’re in now, because they wouldn’t.


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## swkitt (Jan 27, 2021)

Apart from the impressive EVF I don't see anything better than the R5 and it's way overpriced in comparison. 
The 30fps in electronic shutter, I'm sure Canon can catch up with a new firmware as the R5 is able to do 8k Raw videos at 30fps.


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## EOS 4 Life (Jan 27, 2021)

[email protected] said:


> Things I hope it doesn't push Canon to add:
> - 30 fps stills. Give me variable rate up to 20 fps, and I'm happy.


30 FPS was likely to happen anyway and without the lossy compression A1 uses to achieve that


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jan 27, 2021)

tataylino said:


> The naming is now confusing...
> a5 < a7 < a9 < a1
> it should be a10? haha


Never heard of A6600?


----------



## melgross (Jan 27, 2021)

Fbimages said:


> I think you are right and that they will stick with the 20MP. I gave the 1DX iii a shot and it is an incredible camera. I just received the R5 today and will see how it compares AF wise. I thought I could do with 20mpx but it's just not enough for large prints considering I do crop a lot for wildlife. I am sure for sports and events it won't be as much of an issue, and that's probably the end market for these cameras anyway.


That’s the one interesting feature of the Sony—the high pixel count. I’m trying to understand the market they’re going for. Sports and photojournalists don’t normally need high resolution. We’ve been through these discussions before. Transmission speed and memory mean more. But Sony is stating that they have two high speed wireless channels out, and the two card slots. So, this might change the game. I didn’t look at all the specs, but I’m assuming that they can also shoot at a lower, presumably binned, resolution.


----------



## usern4cr (Jan 27, 2021)

swkitt said:


> Apart from the impressive EVF I don't see anything better than the R5 and it's way overpriced in comparison.
> The 30fps in electronic shutter, I'm sure Canon can catch up with a new firmware as the R5 is able to do 8k Raw videos at 30fps.


I doubt that a R5 firmware update will give you FF photos at 30fps, since it would have to read & transfer the entire 3:2 frame which has appreciably more pixels than the narrower 8K video aspect ratio. They'd also be storing each image to it's own filename instead of just adding data to an existing one (that may or may not have an appreciable effect). But when you look at your monitor in post and see one file for a 15 minute video vs 27,000 files it'll make a difference - PLUS Canon only outputs 10,000 filenames within a "folder" so there would be issues with multiple folders as well.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jan 27, 2021)

PerKr said:


> But I suppose if they keep the A9 series, which I doubt since the A9 and A1 are just a bit too similar, and avoid adding an A3 and A5 below the A7 series they can manage to still make sense of it. Or, more likely, they will need to reverse their numbering system, which really is a shame.


A1 is impractical for a lot of A9 users who are not going to pay $2K US more for features that they will never use.
A1 and A9 are no more similar than R5 and R6.


----------



## Maps (Jan 27, 2021)

slclick said:


> Has anyone else noticed the uptick of the phrase 'elephant in the room' around here as of late?



Thank you! Finally! It’s about time someone addressed the elephant in the room.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jan 27, 2021)

Random Orbits said:


> True! However, I think the time for Canon producing a 5D5 has passed. It would have made sense if Canon had codeveloped the 5D5 as the mirrored version of the R5: same sensor, IBIS, frame rate, etc.


I would personally pay more money for a DSLR R5 but I would not sell my R5 because I appreciate the adaptable mount.
I am not sure that ship has sailed but Canon would have to catch up on R5, R6, C70, RF lens, and lens adapter inventory first


----------



## Aaron D (Jan 27, 2021)

mpeeps said:


> I emailed Prograde to request a 3 way dongle; sd, cf, and cfe. I haven't heard back. Anyone aware of a 3 way??


I thought this was a moderated forum.


----------



## csibra (Jan 27, 2021)

I hope I can buy it in a kit with a 28-70 f3,5-5,6


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## kcfp (Jan 27, 2021)

Thank you Sony for keeping the pressure up on Canon and Nikon! Looking forward to the R1!


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## HarryFilm (Jan 27, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> Why would you output 50MP at 16 x 3 = 48 bits per pixel after up-sizing from the Bayer pixel elements? And there is NO reason to output 16 x 4 = 64 bits per pixel as both G pixel elements are green and you just have one final G value per up-sized RGB pixel. Just output the friggin raw file @ 16 bits per pixel element to avoid bloating it up by a factor of 3x. Or output a lossless compressed raw at < 16 bits per pixel element. Also, who outputs the entire 3:2 screen for video (assuming you're talking about video)? They always chop it down to something wider, like 16:9 so a huge chunk of the pixels aren't stored (or even needing any processing at all) in the video stream anyway.



--

Canon outputs the full Y channel (i.e. Luminance) for Canny edge (kinda like SOBEL) detection for it's eye focus so that is 50 megabytes right there at 8 bits and 100 megabits at 16 bits. For the JPEG and HEIF compression they ALSO sub-sample RGBG down to YCC so that each channel can be done separately for the FULL 3:2 aspect ratio output.

AND since Canon can do FULL RAW (that is likely RLE or Run Length Compressed), you are looking at a MINIMUM of 50 megabytes of data for the RAW BAYER pattern at 8-bits or up to 100 megabytes for the 16-bit Raw Bayer pattern. The various Interframe video codecs MUST HAVE the full RGB or YCbCr frames in order to figure out what is an I-frame and what are Delta frames for long GOP (Group of Frames) video compression.

Even at 16:9 DCI 8K 8192 x 4320 pixels YCbCr at the 4:2:2 10-bit most people record at, you are STILL looking at a minimum of 44.2 megabytes PER FRAME for the full Y-channel sample. 11.1 Megabytes for the Cb channel sample and another 11.1 Megabytes for the Cr channel sample so for EACH FRAME during video compression you are looking at 66.4 megabytes uncompressed PER FRAME which then gets encoded down to the proper I-frame or Delta frame information.

Sooooooo....no matter WHAT HAPPENS... Canon and Sony are processing AT LEAST 66.4 megabytes per frame for STILLS OR VIDEO !!! That requires a FAAAAAAST ADC/DAC/DSP chipset egro which is WHY the Canon DIGIC and Sony BIONZ are 1.0 GHz to 1.5 GHx ARM Quadcore Cortex A5 cpu cores .....OR.... the later 8-core ARM chips!

How do I know this? Cuz I looked at the Canon BIOS microcode so I can mod it to my hearts delight. You should see my menu options. They look like something out of a horror novel with movie references and tiny pirate skull icons! I'll post a photo of my modded Canon 1Dc menu options later. I should note that our parent company frowns on me modding the newer 1Dx2's, 1Dx3's and R5's microcode!

V


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## HarryFilm (Jan 27, 2021)

Joules said:


> I think that's just Harry saying Harry things. Don't question it too much



The microcode of Canon Cameras tells me they are doing some pretty interesting trickery to stuff the stills and video data through the cameras ....BUT...... they STILL need a minimum of the high-end 1.0 Ghz ARM-based cpus for the new cameras and looks like it's the 1.5 GHz models for the R5. That must cost at least $150 USD for those CPU's even at bulk pricing!

V


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## HarryFilm (Jan 27, 2021)

[email protected] said:


> As a former owner of a bunch of 1-series bodies, I can say I preferred the A9's flexibility with being able to add or subtract a grip. I did NOT like the A9's lack of weather sealing around that interface, though.
> 
> I primarily shoot the R5 now, and the weather sealing between grip and body appears to be pretty darned good, and that is the best of both words for me. Lets me choose. I know this is anathema for pros who want to look pro, but when doing events, I like to have one r5 gripped and the other on a belt holster, and gripped cameras stink on a holster.



I can offer you a suggestion for that! 

I put the SIGMA 150 to 600 Sports Zoom on my 1Dc for video clips which I usually carry handheld attached to a big clip-on arm-strap so I don't drop it. The 1Dx2/3's with my Otus 55mm lens I put in a custom leather camera cover/case which is V-lock clipped into a chest mount with a big quick-release unlock button on it. 

I got that idea from a combination of my Dad's old German SLR cameras which had those fancy and fashionable textured leather camera covers with their built-in V-lock clip and the quick-release button came from an idea coming out of the Colt-45 concealed carry chest holsters which lets me pull out weapons FAST!!!

So combining common mil-spec and custom camera technologies, we can create workable solutions for reporters and other pro photographers so they can carry multiple cameras on a chest mount. I should note you should do the chest mount ONLY with the 55mm or shorter lenses! Anything else is a tad heavy and unbalanced. I am physically larger than most camera operators at 6'2" and 250 lbs it's it's not a big deal for me carrying a lot of weight on my body but for smaller people keep your 2nd chest mount camera to 55mm and shorter lenses!

V


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## HarryFilm (Jan 27, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> I have to agree - "It's just Harry being Harry!"
> In fact, some of his intricately detailed posts are so hilarious in the combined brilliance & absurdity that I really miss seeing more of them!
> 
> So come on, Harry, what else ya' got for us?




--

The patent documents for the new 16K camera system are being released probably this weekend or early next week. Would that help?

V


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## Lucas Tingley (Jan 27, 2021)

im a bit disappointed on the 10fps mechanical shutter, which means canon can have an edge on sony for the R1


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## woodman411 (Jan 27, 2021)

Joules said:


> A global shutter is a completely different technology compared to Sonys stacked one. Calling this rushed does not seem acurate. I would wait and see if Canon actually pulls of a global shutter and what that means for image quality and cost in the real world. Before we can see what compromises go along with each of the approaches, it is not possible to evaluate the choices made here. So if Sony believes their stacked design is the better option, that may well be an informed decision and not at all 'rushed'.



Ever heard of the Pregius S, Sony's stacked sensor plus global shutter? The only compromise with global shutter is costs, it's like solid state batteries, it's superior in every way but just too expensive right now. Apparently Sony could not pull it off at $6500 this year, yes, let's see if Canon can.


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## usern4cr (Jan 27, 2021)

HarryFilm said:


> --
> 
> The patent documents for the new 16K camera system are being released probably this weekend or early next week. Would that help?
> 
> V


But that was just a one-liner! I was looking forward to something much more intricate & involved!

After all, I thought that the "early next week" announcement you mentioned was for a "bi-nocular apo-chomatically advanced robotic O-LED16K camera system", which at 16K x 2 would make is a "32K Bi-Apo-Chro-RobO-LED system", right?


----------



## Talys (Jan 27, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> Ha, great point. This is part of why I think global shutter is so important and industry changing, it totally removes the need for any moving parts in a camera. Even with my strong support of it, I'm stuck in an old frame of mind that it will make obsolete!
> 
> I do wonder if Canon would keep the shutter as a sort of electronic sensor cover when lenses are changed or power is turned off, I love that feature on my R5. Maybe they could easily design a sensor cover that's one big piece to seal the sensor without worrying about shutter blades breaking.



Indeed. This is probably the most useful quality of life feature in the R5. With the sensor unprotected by a mirror and sitting so close to the lens mount, it's almost impossible NOT to get something on the sensor if you're doing a bunch of lens changes, and it is awful to have to lightroom out 1000 smudges because a speck of lint or dust got on the sensor.

Of course, it wouldn't need to be a performance shutter, any ol' covering will do


----------



## usern4cr (Jan 27, 2021)

Talys said:


> Indeed. This is probably the most useful quality of life feature in the R5. With the sensor unprotected by a mirror and sitting so close to the lens mount, it's almost impossible NOT to get something on the sensor if you're doing a bunch of lens changes, and it is awful to have to lightroom out 1000 smudges because a speck of lint or dust got on the sensor.
> 
> Of course, it wouldn't need to be a performance shutter, any ol' covering will do


Well, if they don't need a high quality physical shutter, they maybe they could add something like a neutral density filter to move in when desired or for long exposure shots or for sensor protection when changing lenses?


----------



## DBounce (Jan 27, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> What you say makes a lot of sense but imagine having none of those bodies.
> This one camera can replace A9 II, A7R iV, A7S III, and FX9.
> A1 is short of each of those cameras but it looks like a steal next to that collection of cameras.


Let’s not get ahead of ourselves just yet. The A1 can’t even load luts. It is rated much lower than the A7S III for low light. It’s lower resolution than the A7R IV, and it is not a professional level video body like the FX6. It can replace exactly one camera on your list... the A9 II. That’s it. Everything else would be a compromise... and an expensive one at that.


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## Joules (Jan 27, 2021)

woodman411 said:


> Ever heard of the Pregius S, Sony's stacked sensor plus global shutter? The only compromise with global shutter is costs, it's like solid state batteries, it's superior in every way but just too expensive right now. Apparently Sony could not pull it off at $6500 this year, yes, let's see if Canon can.


Yes, cost - so what do you do if you are not willing to raise a products total cost? Compromise some other aspect of the system. That's what I was refering to.


----------



## Talys (Jan 27, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> Well, if they don't need a high quality physical shutter, they maybe they could add something like a neutral density filter to move in when desired or for long exposure shots or for sensor protection when changing lenses?



I'd love that! I don't know how physically they'd engineer it (since it can't be a single piece of glass) but if there were a way to make it happen, I'd pay bucks for that feature!


----------



## Joules (Jan 27, 2021)

Talys said:


> I'd love that! I don't know how physically they'd engineer it (since it can't be a single piece of glass) but if there were a way to make it happen, I'd pay bucks for that feature!


Why couldn't it be a single piece? Just let it slide in from the side. The RF bodies are a good bit wider than the sensor is.


----------



## Sporgon (Jan 27, 2021)

Treyarnon said:


> So... its basically a 5DS for 3 times the price, with less noise, more DR and a few more frames per sec


Actually the read noise and DR of the 5DS in normal photography isn't that much different to your A7rIV or Nikon D850 but that would be the least of your worries in trying to keep up with this a1 !


----------



## David - Sydney (Jan 27, 2021)

Lucas Tingley said:


> im a bit disappointed on the 10fps mechanical shutter, which means canon can have an edge on sony for the R1


They just need to include the 1DXiii's mechanical shutter for 20 (edited)fps in the R1.... Canon have a great spare parts bin


----------



## Joules (Jan 27, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> They just need to include the 1DXiii's mechanical shutter for 16fps in the R1.... Canon have a great spare parts bin


The 1DX III mechanical shutter does 20 FPS.

Only the mirror is limited to 16 FPS.


----------



## David - Sydney (Jan 27, 2021)

[email protected] said:


> It appears to me (I'm the guy who did those tests for all the CFe brands on the R5) that the buffer is about the same in terms of gross memory between the A1 and the R5. We'll see when we get an A1 in hand to test. But the CFe A card is going to have 1/2 the performance of the CFe B cards, so the buffer will clear in 2x the time it takes to clear the buffer on the R5.
> 
> That said, the best cards clear the R5 buffer in 4-6 seconds, so doubling that is not too terrible. The data you cite below in The Digital Picture table must have used one of the slower cards. The better data we have indicates that the A1, after shooting for about 5 seconds, will need to clear buffer for about 8-12 seconds, depending on how fast your card is. It should be noted that the ONLY card manufacturer making CFe A cards is Sony. I've tested them in an A7s III, and they're pretty good (if expensive and not terribly large). Sony's CFe B cards are among the fastest in that category.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the link!
I might have missed it but all the tests appear to be using the CFe card only ie not when writing to both SD and CFe cards at the same time. Is that correct? It would be good to understand if there are limitations especially for the buffer clearing rates when using a SD card as well. I have a Sandisk 128GB USH-II SD card which was one of the top 10 in write speeds @ ~200MB/s but this pales into insignificance compared to the CFe B card.
https://havecamerawilltravel.com/photographer/fastest-sd-cards/


----------



## 12Broncos (Jan 27, 2021)

-pekr- said:


> What do you shoot today? Does one REALLY make such a decisions, owning some ecosystem, to not wait .... even for something like 10-12 months?


I don't own a camera right now, I'm using my brothers Canon 7D, which was actually mine, I sold it to him five years ago He told me I could use it until I find something of my own. This is where I'm at.


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## Talys (Jan 27, 2021)

Joules said:


> Why couldn't it be a single piece? Just let it slide in from the side. The RF bodies are a good bit wider than the sensor is.



Well, if you look on an R5, there's absolutely no space to the left, and to the right (grip side), there's a battery. I suppose they could make it two batteries, and bisect it.


----------



## dolina (Jan 28, 2021)

Sony is clever enough to not make the A1 look no different than the A9. 

So the wife will not notice the new camera.


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## Hickup (Jan 28, 2021)

HarryFilm said:


> It also means the Canon R5 is STILL THE SUPERIOR CAMERA, since I get Hollywood Cinema-specific DCI 8k (1.89:1 aspect ratio 8192 by 4320 pixels) recording AND up-to-45 minutes at 8K when I put in our CF-express slot to external 4TB SSD-drive system on it which removes the R5 card slot file save limits!



I hope you don't mind asking me about details on this solution as it would address a challenge I'm faced with as well.

Are you using the ZITAY CFexpress to SSD Converter? Or a different adapter?


----------



## HarryFilm (Jan 28, 2021)

Hickup said:


> I hope you don't mind asking me about details on this solution as it would address a challenge I'm faced with as well.
> 
> Are you using the ZITAY CFexpress to SSD Converter? Or a different adapter?



Not the ZITAY express adapter but rather one we found for sale in Singapore on eBay. It works with CFexpress Type B slots which simply extends out to a USB-A adapter. If you open it up it has some RAM chips used as a buffer and an IO chip set which converts the incoming data out to a USB connection as simple USB packets.

Probably cost them $50 to make and they sell it for $250 -- The company name on the card is Tikkosan and came in one of those plain white boxes you get when you buy weird computer parts off eBay. These companies come and go and it will be under a new name probably.

Do a Google search for CF Express B Card to USB Converter and then ensure you also add the -"Card Reader" search term. The minus sign in front of the -"Card Reader" search term creates a BOOLEAN EXCLUDE command that REMOVES all references to Card Readers otherwise you will get too many CF card reader gadgets in your search results. 

The reason we DID NOT GO with the Zatay is that we can attach the 20 TB Seagate hard drives for our multi-camera camera recordings. The BIOS (i.e. its internal Firmware) on the ZATAY seems to only supports 1 TB and 2TB SSD cards -- It's a finicky BIOS which they need to update to allow BIG hard drives to be attached.

For $250 USD I wasn't going to bother doing too much digging and research. I just needed something that can support Enterprise-class 20 TB Hard Drives!

V


----------



## Etienne (Jan 28, 2021)

Great looking camera, but very pricey. I'm interested in what Sony will pack into the new A7 mark 4 this year. 
As attention grabbing as the A1 specs are, the biggest deal from Sony will be the new A7 4


----------



## PerKr (Jan 28, 2021)

dolina said:


> Sony is clever enough to not make the A1 look no different than the A9.
> 
> So the wife will not notice the new camera.



Also, one can always point to it being a 1-series and not a 9-series. The lower the number, the cheaper it is in Sony world


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Jan 28, 2021)

Lucas Tingley said:


> im a bit disappointed on the 10fps mechanical shutter, which means canon can have an edge on sony for the R1


Even R5 is 12FPS


----------



## -pekr- (Jan 28, 2021)

[email protected] said:


> As a former owner of a bunch of 1-series bodies, I can say I preferred the A9's flexibility with being able to add or subtract a grip. I did NOT like the A9's lack of weather sealing around that interface, though.
> 
> I primarily shoot the R5 now, and the weather sealing between grip and body appears to be pretty darned good, and that is the best of both words for me. Lets me choose. I know this is anathema for pros who want to look pro, but when doing events, I like to have one r5 gripped and the other on a belt holster, and gripped cameras stink on a holster.



No, this is Anathema, but then I am not a pro


----------



## privatebydesign (Jan 28, 2021)

-pekr- said:


> No, this is Anathema, but then I am not a pro
> 
> View attachment 195539


Why did the photographer cut their feet off?


----------



## privatebydesign (Jan 28, 2021)

[email protected] said:


> As a former owner of a bunch of 1-series bodies, I can say I preferred the A9's flexibility with being able to add or subtract a grip. I did NOT like the A9's lack of weather sealing around that interface, though.
> 
> I primarily shoot the R5 now, and the weather sealing between grip and body appears to be pretty darned good, and that is the best of both words for me. Lets me choose. I know this is anathema for pros who want to look pro, but when doing events, I like to have one r5 gripped and the other on a belt holster, and gripped cameras stink on a holster.


I used to think that when I had 1V’s, but after nearly 20 years of use I prefer the all in one nature of the digital 1 series. But these are all personal decisions based on the way we work as individuals, I never got on with belt holsters so my use case is different.


----------



## -pekr- (Jan 28, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> Why did the photographer cut their feet off?



They have announced the end of the band, so maybe back at the time of the photoshoot, they were already sinking


----------



## Bert63 (Jan 28, 2021)

joestopper said:


> The ultimate question: Will the R1 match?




Easily. This camera barely out-specs the R5 and in many categories it lags.

Throw a grip on the Sony and you’re at $7,000. US. For what? I’m not a smart guy but I just don’t see it.


----------



## Bert63 (Jan 28, 2021)

reef58 said:


> I have to ask what would impress you? I am not a Sony guy, but I can't imagine a camera with more features that resembles a hand holdable body.




I’m not impressed at either. Features? Yes. Price? $3K more than an R5 gets you what exactly?

That’s the part I’m missing and I’m sure it’s there but I’m just not smart enough to understand it.


----------



## Bert63 (Jan 28, 2021)

Random Orbits said:


> I love the speed of the CFE card, but I'm traveling, I'm bringing the laptop, which only has a SD slot. I shoot to both cards or copy from one to the other when I have down time, but it's nice to have something I can put into the laptop without lugging around another adapter/dongle.




My CFE reader is the size of a Tic-Tac box. Oh the misery. .lolol.


----------



## Bert63 (Jan 28, 2021)

StevenA said:


> The elephant in the room (one of them at least) is that the Alpha 1 is directed at the professional market but doesn't have a built-in battery grip so all that tech runs off of a single battery. This will force professionals to buy a grip adding extra cost to an already expensive body. Meanwhile, Canon and Nikon pro bodies come standard this way.




Yep - a grip makes this a $7000 US body that lags the R5 in a few areas...

30FPS is great but for crying out loud just shoot video and frame steal. 20FPS is already insane.

...and 30FPS, absolute crap ergo, and no integrated grip for $3K more than an R5 is nuts.

Convince me I’m wrong.


----------



## Bert63 (Jan 28, 2021)

analoggrotto said:


> This might take a while for Canon to catch up to.



The R5 gives you 95% of A1 performance for $3K less. Catch up? I don’t see the lead..


----------



## Bert63 (Jan 28, 2021)

tron said:


> But i didn't notice anything annoying with the R5 EVF at 120Hz.



Bingo.

And all the wonderful video specs with that wonderful tilty-flippy... Oh wait.


----------



## Random Orbits (Jan 28, 2021)

Bert63 said:


> My CFE reader is the size of a Tic-Tac box. Oh the misery. .lolol.



Now imagine your misery when you forgot the CFE reader at home and you have the time to review and edit but you can't.

I'm sure most of us are more likely to forget to bring the CFE reader than the camera or the laptop. I'd love to see laptops have CFE slots built-in, but I don't see it happening. As long as the camera and laptop have SD slots, why would you bring something extraneous?


----------



## SteveC (Jan 28, 2021)

Random Orbits said:


> Now imagine your misery when you forgot the CFE reader at home and you have the time to review and edit but you can't.
> 
> I'm sure most of us are more likely to forget to bring the CFE reader than the camera or the laptop. I'd love to see laptops have CFE slots built-in, but I don't see it happening. As long as the camera and laptop have SD slots, why would you bring something extraneous?



I understand that.

I went to photograph an annular eclipse back in 2012. I brought the camera and the tripod.

I did not bring the actual plate that attaches the camera to the tripod. I thus didn't get even one usable picture.


----------



## Joules (Jan 28, 2021)

Random Orbits said:


> Now imagine your misery when you forgot the CFE reader at home and you have the time to review and edit but you can't.
> 
> I'm sure most of us are more likely to forget to bring the CFE reader than the camera or the laptop. I'd love to see laptops have CFE slots built-in, but I don't see it happening. As long as the camera and laptop have SD slots, why would you bring something extraneous?


Well, you can just transfer images with a USB C cable if push comes to shove  If you don't have one of those on hand, you are likely having a whole other problem.


----------



## Joules (Jan 28, 2021)

SteveC said:


> I understand that.
> 
> I went to photograph an annular eclipse back in 2012. I brought the camera and the tripod.
> 
> I did not bring the actual plate that attaches the camera to the tripod. I thus didn't get even one usable picture.


I drove out with a friend to a location once , and after we arrived and had walked around a bit, I took out my camera ... No SD card inserted. We had a nice walk though.


----------



## SteveC (Jan 28, 2021)

Joules said:


> I drove out with a friend to a location once , and after we arrived and had walked around a bit, I took out my camera ... No SD card inserted. We had a nice walk though.



That happened to me once too, very recently. It was still stuck in the card reader slot in my computer at home.

Fortunately I did have an option: I stole the one out of my RP.


----------



## Random Orbits (Jan 28, 2021)

SteveC said:


> I understand that.
> 
> I went to photograph an annular eclipse back in 2012. I brought the camera and the tripod.
> 
> I did not bring the actual plate that attaches the camera to the tripod. I thus didn't get even one usable picture.



Ouch! 

I wanted a couple pictures of the sunrise off Cape Cod last summer. I leave the L-plate attached to the camera all the time, and I brought a tripod along with a glass plate filter set. I'm setting up on the beach, and I see that the ball head was missing... it was on the other tripod I left at home for zoom calls.

On a more recent occasion, I brought the M5 with EF-M 22 only to realize that there was no card in the slot. I had taken it to record audio on a zoom recorder. I usually leave at least one card in each device, but that was shortly after my Sony Tough SD card started giving me errors, so I was one card short...


----------



## Bert63 (Jan 28, 2021)

Random Orbits said:


> Now imagine your misery when you forgot the CFE reader at home and you have the time to review and edit but you can't.
> 
> I'm sure most of us are more likely to forget to bring the CFE reader than the camera or the laptop. I'd love to see laptops have CFE slots built-in, but I don't see it happening. As long as the camera and laptop have SD slots, why would you bring something extraneous?




I keep my reader in my laptop bag which sits right beside my PC desk. I have another one in my car. People can make excuses for anything I suppose.

If it‘s that hard to remember, buy two, or carry a USB C to connect your camera to your laptop.

If the features you use require CFE then there you go. If not, problem solved.


----------



## Random Orbits (Jan 28, 2021)

Bert63 said:


> I keep my reader in my laptop bag which sits right beside my PC desk. I have another one in my car. People can make excuses for anything I suppose.
> 
> If it‘s that hard to remember, buy two, or carry a USB C to connect your camera to your laptop.
> 
> If the features you use require CFE then there you go. If not, problem solved.



That's great that you never forget anything.


----------



## Bert63 (Jan 28, 2021)

Random Orbits said:


> That's great that you never forget anything.




I forget things all the time - that’s why I have two of all the critical, day-ruining things.


----------



## tron (Jan 28, 2021)

SteveC said:


> I understand that.
> 
> I went to photograph an annular eclipse back in 2012. I brought the camera and the tripod.
> 
> I did not bring the actual plate that attaches the camera to the tripod. I thus didn't get even one usable picture.


You reminded my of a similarly disastrous situation when I tried to shoot a partial eclipse. I could not find the Canon adaptor to connect my camera to a Celestron telescope and when I tried to revert to a Canon lens I discovered that the tripod had stuck from lack of use! When I found a worse (but hopefully working? ) tripod the sun disappeared into the clouds!

BUT this helped me to get organized perfectly a few months later where I shot my first (and possibly only) total solar eclipse (March 2006)

That was a success! I bought a new Manfrotto tripod with a gear head, baader solar filters for the partial case, I had made some test shots for the partial phase, I had 2 EOS1n bodies and my main lens was a Canon 300mm f/4L (non IS which actually is sharper than the IS version) and EF2XII. I had as a backup a Sigma 400mm 5.6 APO.
Focusing was manual and thankfully it was OK.

And of course, tickets, reservations, arrangement for vacation with my work, etc...


----------



## usern4cr (Jan 28, 2021)

Joules said:


> Well, you can just transfer images with a USB C cable if push comes to shove  If you don't have one of those on hand, you are likely having a whole other problem.


While I agree with being able to "just use a USB C cable" to transfer data from camera to computer, the reality is that Canon (and others) builds a fragile USB-C connector which is soldered onto the motherboard without reinforcement and it is far too easy (under ordinary use) to break this connector which cannot be fixed without a replacement of the motherboard. See lensrentals teardowns and what they say about this. Canon acknowledges this fact by the weird crappy plastic thingy they provide with every camera to screw into the side of the camera and wind your cable through it so that you won't damage the USB-C connector. I tried that and it is a PITA to do, and it ridiculous to put on and take off every time you want to transfer files.

For this reason alone, I no longer use the USB-C connector on the R5 and instead take out the CFExpress card (much more robust against damage) and put it into a Prograde reader which then has the USB-C cable to my laptop (those connectors are better reinforced for use). I wish I didn't have to do this, but until Canon (and others) make a robust USB connector I will have no other choice.


----------



## Chaitanya (Jan 29, 2021)

This little article showed in newsfeed today:








Why the Sony A1 Actually Shows How Canon Is Winning the Mirrorless Game


The Sony a1 was just announced, and it is, without question, a remarkable camera. So, why is it good news for Canon? I, like I'm sure most other people, salivated while reading the Sony a1's specs sheet: 50 megapixels, 8K video, 30 fps burst mode, and more. There is no doubt that Sony has blown...




fstoppers.com


----------



## Chig (Jan 29, 2021)

Quarkcharmed said:


> The R1 will have (or will need to have) about 45Mp like the R5 so that it does 8K, otherwise it'll be lagging behind the R5, not to mention the A1.


The main market for the R1 will be the pro sports guys who bought the 1D series and very few of them want 45mp to slow down their workflow , most of them just shoot jpegs which is all they need or want.


----------



## Pape (Jan 29, 2021)

I bet there is lot of peoples who would love shoot pictures with that 10mpixel 250 fp/s viewfinder 
Memory card records wrong feed


----------



## Chig (Jan 29, 2021)

terminatahx said:


> Salute to Sony for pushing Canon....can't wait for the 1R!


Not sure how making a camera with very similar specs to the R5 but much higher price and rubbish ergonomics and mickey mouse UI is ''pushing" Canon.
I predict the R1 will be much more similar to the 1DXiii with :

moderate 20-24mp
20-30fps
similar form factor but a bit lighter
new improved twin processors over the 1DXiii
similar pricing to 1DXiii
maybe ibis ?
clever software stuff like in camera focus stacking
improved wireless transfer to servers,etc.
maybe global shutter?
Other features I'd like to see (but Canon probably won't add them):

red dot sight on camera body aligned with your left eye to use for lining up long lenses for birds in flight ,etc. (I added red dot "gun sights" to my telephoto lens for this but would prefer to have one on the camera body)
option of assigning half press shutter button for single shots and full press for high fps to use with back button focus
tilting EVF for looking down from above a la ''Box Brownie"
These last 3 features I'd love to see on all Canon mirrorless cameras especially the R7


----------



## Viggo (Jan 29, 2021)

Regarding pricing I have to ask the US people here ; at $6500 do you all feel, in today’s economy, that it costs the same as the 1dx did at $6500?

the reason I’m asking is because the 1dx at launch for $6500 was around 53000 NOK here , whilst the $6500 of the A1 translates to 80000 NOK. That brings the difference, of the cameras that cost the same amount in the US, up to $3128 dollars in Norway. Which is why me and lot of people that used to buy 1-series have to step down to the 5-series

1dx at launch = 53000 NOK
R5 at launch = 53400 NOK

A1 at launch =$9200


----------



## Del Paso (Jan 29, 2021)

SteveC said:


> I understand that.
> 
> I went to photograph an annular eclipse back in 2012. I brought the camera and the tripod.
> 
> I did not bring the actual plate that attaches the camera to the tripod. I thus didn't get even one usable picture.


And I didn't even have a film in my camera...


----------



## jayphotoworks (Jan 29, 2021)

-pekr- said:


> No, this is Anathema, but then I am not a pro
> 
> View attachment 195539



This is completely off topic, but I really enjoy listening to this band. My favorite was Weather Systems in 2012 and especially the first two tracks. I think sometimes this industry should be like this band, they've rediscovered and completely changed their musical style from when they first came on the scene to today. Well, except for recently effectively disbanding that is. 

But Sony has kind of done this over the years from pushing gimmicky features and smallish mirrorless bodies to releasing more and more mature products today, especially against large titans like Canon and Nikon. Nikon today somehow feels like Blackberry though..


----------



## analoggrotto (Jan 30, 2021)

Bert63 said:


> The R5 gives you 95% of A1 performance for $3K less. Catch up? I don’t see the lead..


catch up to the price  

Canon will emphasize mechanical shutter performance but will / can they push resolution so high on the top end camera?


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## fabiorossi (Jan 30, 2021)

Thanks Sony!, this camera makes the R5 looks even better.


----------



## SteveC (Jan 30, 2021)

It has some nominal (apparent) improvements over the R5 but not enough to justify the price...even if there weren't the classic S*ny downsides of ergonomics and ergonomics (not to mention ergonomics)--which includes the menu, by the way; ergonomics isn't just physical factors. I'd say overall it's worth less than an R5, even aside from the fact that I hate S*ny and did even before I got into photography.

Once the R1 comes out S*ny will be...[AARGH!!!! I can't say it; the forum will turn it into a compliment and I sure as f*** don't want to compliment _them_.]


----------



## Bert63 (Jan 31, 2021)

Sony Northrup (watched the review) isn't impressed. Overheating in 8K occurs in 16 minutes unless you turn on Sony's "ignore all heat warnings" option. Autofocus was just okay. 30FPS is a myth.

Trying hard to se $300 dollar price difference between this and the R5, much less $3000.

Sony Northrup actually had more nice things to say about the R5 than he did the A1.


----------



## usern4cr (Feb 1, 2021)

Bert63 said:


> Sony Northrup (watched the review) isn't impressed. Overheating in 8K occurs in 16 minutes unless you turn on Sony's "ignore all heat warnings" option. Autofocus was just okay. 30FPS is a myth.
> 
> Trying hard to se $300 dollar price difference between this and the R5, much less $3000.
> 
> Sony Northrup actually had more nice things to say about the R5 than he did the A1.


Wow, I'll have to watch that video of his.
It's funny that there's only 1 thing I found interesting about the A1: the EVF. It's not because of the 9MDots or 240 FPS. It's because of the much larger in-eye magnification where the visual view should be wider to the eye. That's much better to have. The 9MDots & 240 FPS will be a very nice bonus on top of that. I hope the future high end Canon R... bodies have something similar (or even better). And (please) have a slightly bigger & more MDot back LCD panel.


----------



## dirtyvu (Feb 1, 2021)

Tony Northrup is making the fanboys at alpharumors cry...


----------



## dilbert (Feb 1, 2021)

dirtyvu said:


> Tony Northrup is making the fanboys at alpharumors cry...



I wonder how many threads there are on canonrumors of people deriding Tony Northrup in one way or another (because he didn't say something nice about Canon or whatever...)


----------



## Joules (Feb 1, 2021)

dilbert said:


> I wonder how many threads there are on canonrumors of people deriding Tony Northrup in one way or another (because he didn't say something nice about Canon or whatever...)


There are a lot of things you can criticize about the things he sais without every considering whether they are nice or not.


----------



## Deleted member 381342 (Feb 1, 2021)

dilbert said:


> I wonder how many threads there are on canonrumors of people deriding Tony Northrup in one way or another (because he didn't say something nice about Canon or whatever...)



Programmers were often critical of his books for mostly legitimate reasons. And photographers are critical of him for mostly legitimate reasons. The man rubs me the wrong way no matter what brand he is talking about, he comes across as an morning TV presenter and false.


----------



## Neutral (Feb 1, 2021)

Bert63 said:


> The R5 gives you 95% of A1 performance for $3K less. Catch up? I don’t see the lead..


Do you really and honestly believe in what you are claiming ?
If so then you probably see what is on the surface but do not realise what it is under hood - tremendous difference in the sensor technology between them. 
Just on phography side - for megapixel count you are right, but the the problem is your ability and flexibility to use that pixels.
For stills and not very fast moving subject R5 is OK - on par with Sony A7r4, but try to track focus on objects quickly and erraticaly movig accros the frame ( e.g. shooting gymnaticcs, soccer, basketball, erratically moving birds in flight etc.).
Not sure if R5 could give you even 10% performance and AF tracking precision/reliability of A1 in this scenarios. Future Canon R1 possibly will be close to A1 (or might be even better) in this respect - at least it should be to be able to compete. 
Enabled by very fast sensor readout A1 makes 120 AF calculations per second and also based on this possibly does interpolations/predictions between that points. As result A1 can do precise lens AF movements based on that calculations and object movements predictions ( accuracy depends on lens itself - latest Sony GM lenses with dual linear AF motors are extreemly fast and precise).
How fast R5 could do that AF - how many AF calculations per second ?
Now please do simple school home math ( just simpliest example for easy calculation) - what whould be AF precision/accuracy for each system if object of interest crosses frame in fraction of a second changing distance significantly at the same time ? E.g. for 0.5 second A9 will have 60 accurate AF points (4 AF points calculations and possibly some AF predictions based on previous AF calculations for each one frame in 30fps shooting mode).
What about R5 and what will be difference in results compared to A1? Everyone could do their home math here to understand this basic difference.


----------



## BRunner (Feb 1, 2021)

Neutral said:


> Do you really and honestly believe in what you are claiming ?
> If so then you probably see what is on the surface but do not realise what it is under hood - tremendous difference in the sensor technology between them.
> Just on phography side - for megapixel count you are right, but the the problem is your ability and flexibility to use that pixels.
> For stills and not very fast moving subject R5 is OK - on par with Sony A7r4, but try to track focus on objects quickly and erraticaly movig accros the frame ( e.g. shooting gymnaticcs, soccer, basketball, erratically moving birds in flight etc.).
> ...


Well, you surely used both cameras for many months in field to support your claims....or you are just reading spec-sheets?!


----------



## Joules (Feb 1, 2021)

Neutral said:


> Do you really and honestly believe in what you are claiming ?
> If so then you probably see what is on the surface but do not realise what it is under hood - tremendous difference in the sensor technology between them.


Surely. Consumers care about results though, not about the technology that delivers them. The A1 review embargo isn't even lifted yet. If you have any insights into the actual performance of this camera, be careful not to expose yourself to consequences by sharing it.

If you are just evaluating the camera based on the material provided by Sony thus far, accusing somebody of not realizing what's under the hood comes off hypocritical.




Neutral said:


> try to track focus on objects quickly and erraticaly movig accros the frame [...]. Not sure if R5 could give you even 10% performance and AF tracking precision/reliability of A1 in this scenarios. [...]
> What about R5 and what will be difference in results compared to A1? Everyone could do their home math here to understand this basic difference.


If you can work out the difference in performance between the R5 and A1 with math that is so simple to you, why don't you do it? Why speculate that it would be 10 % if you are able to enlighten us with simple calculations and therefore save us from watching and reading reviews?




Neutral said:


> Enabled by very fast sensor readout A1 makes 120 AF calculations per second and also based on this possibly does interpolations/predictions between that points. [...]
> 
> How fast R5 could do that AF - how many AF calculations per second ?


Given that the R5 does 4K at 120 FPS with full AF, it can at least handle this rate of AF adjustment, although as you point out interpolation may be involved. As we do not have numbers for this published by Canon, I don't see how an exact answer could be given. So I would highly appreciate it if you could tech me a thing or two and lay out this math you propose.


----------



## EOS 4 Life (Feb 1, 2021)

dilbert said:


> I wonder how many threads there are on canonrumors of people deriding Tony Northrup in one way or another (because he didn't say something nice about Canon or whatever...)


Tony was part of the main chorus of R5 conspiracy theorists.


----------



## jayphotoworks (Feb 1, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> Wow, I'll have to watch that video of his.
> It's funny that there's only 1 thing I found interesting about the A1: the EVF. It's not because of the 9MDots or 240 FPS. It's because of the much larger in-eye magnification where the visual view should be wider to the eye. That's much better to have. The 9MDots & 240 FPS will be a very nice bonus on top of that. I hope the future high end Canon R... bodies have something similar (or even better). And (please) have a slightly bigger & more MDot back LCD panel.



I've had the A7S3 for awhile now and the EVF magnification at 0.91x is huge. It is the largest I've used so far and really makes a difference. I can also toggle the magnification to "zoomed out" when I'm wearing glasses/sunglasses to better see the edges. But changing this to 120fps on the A7S3 drops the resolution and the new A1 apparently has 3 settings, 60fps, 120fps and 240fps. From the spec sheet footnotes, 240fps apparently disables "standard" magnification meaning it will be locked to "zoomed out" meaning a smaller EVF image (perhaps to better hide the drop in resolution?)

In terms of the rear LCD not being fully articulated on the A1, personally I don't know if this is simply a force of habit from shooting on Sony for so long, but I like the tilt up and tilt down better than a fully articulating screen. When I swivel the screen and the fact it has a full size hdmi port, it gets either caught by cables or the Tilta cage I'm using. Because I can't tilt the screen without flipping it out first, that messes up my gimbal balance and almost 90% of the time, I find tilting solves any time I'm higher or lower than the camera. I guess YMMV. I think Panasonic does this better, but you still can't tilt down (only tilt up) the screen without flipping it out.


----------



## usern4cr (Feb 1, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Tony was part of the main chorus of R5 conspiracy theorists.


I just watched the Tony Northrup A1 video. I found it quite informative and reasonable in presentation. I've stated here in C.R. the biggest benefit of the A1 (via specs) to me has been the EVF with it's _higher magnification_, so that it's _a wider & taller view to the eye_ which is sorely needed in all EVF's, plus the _higher MP and 240FPS_ makes it just as good (according to him) and better (with live info) as an OVF. Now I can't test that or make that claim, but it reinforces my view of how great that 1 item is, and I hope Canon comes out with a similar EVF in their upcoming top R... bodies. I noticed jayphotoworks (thanks!, above) mention that EVF 240 fps reduces the magnification to "standard" (smaller) size, so I can only hope that a future Canon version allows 240fps at max. EVF magnification.

Tony also mentions other good & bad things about the A1 and how the R5 often is better in many regards, especially animal/bird eye AF which is crucial to me. I thought it was a very good review, and while Tony is certainly not perfect and may be very self-serving (and enjoys a very good living from it) I don't hold that against him, and instead enjoy the good information, and often interesting history of past photo developments, he does provide.


----------



## Bert63 (Feb 1, 2021)

Neutral said:


> Do you really and honestly believe in what you are claiming ?
> If so then you probably see what is on the surface but do not realise what it is under hood - tremendous difference in the sensor technology between them.
> Just on phography side - for megapixel count you are right, but the the problem is your ability and flexibility to use that pixels.
> For stills and not very fast moving subject R5 is OK - on par with Sony A7r4, but try to track focus on objects quickly and erraticaly movig accros the frame ( e.g. shooting gymnaticcs, soccer, basketball, erratically moving birds in flight etc.).
> ...




Hands on, real world, which you don't have, Tony Northrup pretty much said R5 is better across the board in terms of autofocus. So much for your math. We'll see what the rest of the real-world, hands-on reviews say while the specs sheets lie.

30FPS is on the spec sheet too. Whoops.

Given the choice to believe some random on the Internet or someone who has actually used the camera, guess which one I'll choose?

Trying to talk down to someone when you haven't even seen an A1 much less used one makes you look kinda silly. Making assumptions based on stat sheets is like dyno racing. Useless.


----------



## Bert63 (Feb 1, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> Wow, I'll have to watch that video of his.
> It's funny that there's only 1 thing I found interesting about the A1: the EVF. It's not because of the 9MDots or 240 FPS. It's because of the much larger in-eye magnification where the visual view should be wider to the eye. That's much better to have. The 9MDots & 240 FPS will be a very nice bonus on top of that. I hope the future high end Canon R... bodies have something similar (or even better). And (please) have a slightly bigger & more MDot back LCD panel.




Yes indeed!


----------



## Bert63 (Feb 1, 2021)




----------



## Bert63 (Feb 1, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> I just watched the Tony Northrup A1 video. I found it quite informative and reasonable in presentation. I've stated here in C.R. the biggest benefit of the A1 (via specs) to me has been the EVF with it's _higher magnification_, so that it's _a wider & taller view to the eye_ which is sorely needed in all EVF's, plus the _higher MP and 240FPS_ makes it just as good (according to him) and better (with live info) as an OVF. Now I can't test that or make that claim, but it reinforces my view of how great that 1 item is, and I hope Canon comes out with a similar EVF in their upcoming top R... bodies. I noticed jayphotoworks (thanks!, above) mention that EVF 240 fps reduces the magnification to "standard" (smaller) size, so I can only hope that a future Canon version allows 240fps at max. EVF magnification.
> 
> Tony also mentions other good & bad things about the A1 and how the R5 often is better in many regards, especially animal/bird eye AF which is crucial to me. I thought it was a very good review, and while Tony is certainly not perfect and may be very self-serving (and enjoys a very good living from it) I don't hold that against him, and instead enjoy the good information, and often interesting history of past photo developments, he does provide.




I was shocked. Normally his love for Sony would run contrary to the majority opinion, but in this case he was critical in some pretty important areas.


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## Antono Refa (Feb 1, 2021)

Hector1970 said:


> It's a pity they couldn't improve the SD card further. 50MP at 30FPS is going to be a huge load on the card.



There's SD Express, which is as fast, if not faster, than CF Express type A.

Only problem is nobody picked up any of the new SD standards, so there are no SD Express cards, no UHS-III (2x speed of UHS-II), no SDUC (up to 128 TiB), and no A2 Application Performance Class (random access speed, a.k.a IOPS).

[OK, there are A2 micro SD cards, but seems there are no controllers that take advantage of it, which, due to the way the cards are implemented, actually makes them perform worse than regular / A1 cards.]


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## deleteme (Feb 1, 2021)

So, bottom line, 8k (at maybe useful frame rates and duration) and mad frame rate is what we get for our money.

The issue I have is that so far, these are all claims that have yet to proven in the real world.

50MP is nice but not news even in their own line. But 30fps for stills is, if it can be reliably delivered.
As for 8K, we still need to see if they can deliver frame rates and data that will make the setting useful.

What *is* most interesting to me is the 1/400 sec flash sync. That is a metric scarcely improved over the last 20 years and is most welcome.
The EVF may be nice also but my R5 is no pig.

Overall a nice intro for Sony but is questionable that a pro would spend the $13k necessary for the requisite two bodies to get any of these specs. Specs, while nice, are scarcely the difference between success and failure.


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## Bert63 (Feb 1, 2021)

Hector1970 said:


> It's a pity they couldn't improve the SD card further. 50MP at 30FPS is going to be a huge load on the card.



Except unless you're shooting JPG or HEIF or taking stills of non-moving subjects, you'll likely never see 30FPS... 

In still photography good 'ole Sony Northrup was only able to get 30 FPS when shooting stationary subjects. Why you would want 30FPS of a stationary target is lost on me but I'm not really smart when it comes to studio work or whatever.

Tracking moving subjects such as birds using continuous auto-focus rendered a best of 19FPS and he frequently got less - and it was at this point he said it was important to note that under the same circumstances an R5 consistently delivered its claim of 20FPS.

When using third-party lenses the best he could render was 15FPS regardless of the lens.

Considering that on his four tier scale of AWESOME, GREAT, GOOD, and NOT GREAT, bird eye auto-focus also landed firmly in last place with a grade of NOT GREAT, things ain't looking so good in this regard..

Lemme just say that I'm no Northrup fan or YouTube reviewer fan in general. It showed up on my camera channel and I watched it because I'd already watched my Haulover Boats video for the morning and I was desperate.

He seemed pretty level headed and fair IMO, but I expected him to gloss over the shortcomings of a Sony like he normally does. Only DPReview butt-snorkles Sony harder than Sony Northrup, but in this case he surprised me.


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## DPhotoR (Feb 2, 2021)

Thank you Sony. Competition creates innovation. Let's see what Canon has in the works. And yes, they need to introduce something better than the C70.


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## xps (Feb 2, 2021)

Despite Mr. Northrup seems to be critical, DPReview more enthusiastic. https://www.dpreview.com/articles/2677095861/hands-on-with-the-sony-alpha-1
Some Problems solved, but for an 1 Series body, for me at this price point a lot is missing (like top display, handgrip included,...).
IMO the 7RV will combine a lot of the new features at an dramatically lesser price point.

So lets wait, how much the R1 is stepping upward to the R5. Maybe same resolution with better Af, low noise,..., but in an really well built 1 series body.
I am waiting hard to see it


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## Hector1970 (Feb 2, 2021)

Bert63 said:


> Except unless you're shooting JPG or HEIF or taking stills of non-moving subjects, you'll likely never see 30FPS...
> 
> In still photography good 'ole Sony Northrup was only able to get 30 FPS when shooting stationary subjects. Why you would want 30FPS of a stationary target is lost on me but I'm not really smart when it comes to studio work or whatever.
> 
> ...


Yes interesting. All that was not apparent initially but as the info slipped out the A1's halo started to slip a bit. 30 FPS would only be of use for moving objects. I don't mind Tony Northrup (or Chelsea). They are at least enthusiastic and he often makes good points based on his experiences. 
I have no idea what Haulover Boats is so I stuck it into youtube and got a whole load of people trying to get boats out of Haulover Inlet. A whole new world.


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## Bert63 (Feb 2, 2021)

Hector1970 said:


> Yes interesting. All that was not apparent initially but as the info slipped out the A1's halo started to slip a bit. 30 FPS would only be of use for moving objects. I don't mind Tony Northrup (or Chelsea). They are at least enthusiastic and he often makes good points based on his experiences.
> I have no idea what Haulover Boats is so I stuck it into youtube and got a whole load of people trying to get boats out of Haulover Inlet. A whole new world.




I stumbled across it by accident and love the boarts. It’s crazy how far boats, like everything else, have come.


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## arbitrage (Feb 2, 2021)

Bert63 said:


> Hands on, real world, which you don't have, Tony Northrup pretty much said R5 is better across the board in terms of autofocus. So much for your math. We'll see what the rest of the real-world, hands-on reviews say while the specs sheets lie.
> 
> 30FPS is on the spec sheet too. Whoops.
> 
> ...



Tony also continues to claim the A9 is useless for sports and BIF. That is such incredible BS, I wouldn't even dream of trying to have a reasoned argument with him.
I have the A9II, had the A9 before, had the A7RIV (sold to help fund A1) and I have the R5. I've shots 10,000s of BIF frames with all those cameras. A lot of what I'm reading on this thread is complete hyperbole in both directions. On one hand there are claims that R5 is at most 10% of the A1/A9 for fast action...hogwash. On the other hand you claiming the R5 is 90+ of anything the A1 can do is also unsupported. Now I can't yet make claims about the A1...mine is prioritized through Sony Pro Support for first day shipment and my preorder was in a week before Sony even announced the camera just in case it was any good. I'll have it in my hands early March. Only then after shooting for awhile will I be able to say how it compares to the A9 and how it compares to the R5. But at least I'll have all three in my hands to figure that out for myself and share my opinions with others that may be still deciding between those different cameras.

All I can say right now is my clear thoughts on how the A9II and R5 compare. R5's Bird Eye-AF is an excellent feature...I love it....A9II Bird Eye-AF isn't worth the time and not even officially supported (but it does work under certain conditions/species). A1 Bird-Eye AF remains to be seen...Tony's impressions don't sound great but it's Tony...remember the guy who told us the R5 was useless for BIF while he had it totally setup wrong and was using an outdated lens that couldn't even take advantage of the full performance?....yeah that guy...LOL

When it comes to shooting faster BIF, the A9II still has the edge in quick acquisition and holding the subject. The R5 still can jump off subject if backgrounds have too much contrast or bright highlights. Also the ease of shooting the A9II because of the live feed to the EVF is easier than the R5. Anytime you let off the R5's shutter while tracking a fast moving BIF you get thrown ahead in time because it had been showing you a previous interpolated frame even at 20FPS ES. While you actively hold down the shutter and pan with the BIF, it isn't too far off the A9II but I much prefer small controlled bursts as the bird approaches and the R5 isn't as easy to do that with. I still have yet to test the R5 on my most challenging subject...that will happen early March when the Violet-Green Swallows return to my shooting spot...which is now even more perfect because I can throw all three cameras at them.


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## usern4cr (Feb 2, 2021)

arbitrage said:


> Tony also continues to claim the A9 is useless for sports and BIF. That is such incredible BS, I wouldn't even dream of trying to have a reasoned argument with him.
> I have the A9II, had the A9 before, had the A7RIV (sold to help fund A1) and I have the R5. I've shots 10,000s of BIF frames with all those cameras. A lot of what I'm reading on this thread is complete hyperbole in both directions. On one hand there are claims that R5 is at most 10% of the A1/A9 for fast action...hogwash. On the other hand you claiming the R5 is 90+ of anything the A1 can do is also unsupported. Now I can't yet make claims about the A1...mine is prioritized through Sony Pro Support for first day shipment and my preorder was in a week before Sony even announced the camera just in case it was any good. I'll have it in my hands early March. Only then after shooting for awhile will I be able to say how it compares to the A9 and how it compares to the R5. But at least I'll have all three in my hands to figure that out for myself and share my opinions with others that may be still deciding between those different cameras.
> 
> All I can say right now is my clear thoughts on how the A9II and R5 compare. R5's Bird Eye-AF is an excellent feature...I love it....A9II Bird Eye-AF isn't worth the time and not even officially supported (but it does work under certain conditions/species). A1 Bird-Eye AF remains to be seen...Tony's impressions don't sound great but it's Tony...remember the guy who told us the R5 was useless for BIF while he had it totally setup wrong and was using an outdated lens that couldn't even take advantage of the full performance?....yeah that guy...LOL
> ...


Thank you for your post with informed comparisons of the A9, A9II, A7RIV, & R5. It's good to hear from someone who has such competing equipment and is willing to mention the strengths & weaknesses of each. I hope you can continue to do so and that we can all have an informative and constructive interaction long into the future.  

Regarding your comment on the R5 and letting up on shutter while tracking BIF with EVF, have you tried using back button focus (one for eye AF specifically) and holding it while you track a bird?  You can continue to hold it even though you press or not press the shutter button (which has AF removed from it!) and so you don't have to interrupt the AF and (I assume) you won't get the interruption in the EVF (could you please verify this?). If this idea works it will help you out there, as well as letting us know it what you think of it. By the way, I have one back button for spot AF and a 2nd back button for eye AF and the shutter button has the AF removed - that works well for me and some others here.

Regarding Tony, well ... everyone can be wrong sometimes. Tony's no exception. But I do think he genuinely tries to be as careful and fair as possible. I don't know of anyone else that I would consider better, since they all would have issues one way or the other.


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## Bert63 (Feb 3, 2021)

arbitrage said:


> Tony also continues to claim the A9 is useless for sports and BIF. That is such incredible BS, I wouldn't even dream of trying to have a reasoned argument with him.
> I have the A9II, had the A9 before, had the A7RIV (sold to help fund A1) and I have the R5. I've shots 10,000s of BIF frames with all those cameras. A lot of what I'm reading on this thread is complete hyperbole in both directions. On one hand there are claims that R5 is at most 10% of the A1/A9 for fast action...hogwash. On the other hand you claiming the R5 is 90+ of anything the A1 can do is also unsupported. Now I can't yet make claims about the A1...mine is prioritized through Sony Pro Support for first day shipment and my preorder was in a week before Sony even announced the camera just in case it was any good. I'll have it in my hands early March. Only then after shooting for awhile will I be able to say how it compares to the A9 and how it compares to the R5. But at least I'll have all three in my hands to figure that out for myself and share my opinions with others that may be still deciding between those different cameras.
> 
> All I can say right now is my clear thoughts on how the A9II and R5 compare. R5's Bird Eye-AF is an excellent feature...I love it....A9II Bird Eye-AF isn't worth the time and not even officially supported (but it does work under certain conditions/species). A1 Bird-Eye AF remains to be seen...Tony's impressions don't sound great but it's Tony...remember the guy who told us the R5 was useless for BIF while he had it totally setup wrong and was using an outdated lens that couldn't even take advantage of the full performance?....yeah that guy...LOL
> ...




While I can agree with a lot of what you are saying, I can say that I haven’t had the trouble with tracking on the R5 that you describe - but that could be a difference in conditions between us or a difference in technique. In my limited experience the R5 holds it weight and earns it’s keep.

Sony Northrup aside, if you placed the A1 and the R5 side by side, there is no way you would be able to convince me that the A1 is going to track a bird $3000 better than an R5.

You mention ‘an outdated lens’ but don’t mention that’s what a lot of people have. I read over at Reddit a lot (it’s good entertainment and I learn) and a lot of the folks who spring for an R5 or even an R6 are putting their legacy gear on the front of it because that’s all they can afford. I’m not familiar with the Northrup review you’re talking about because I don’t watch his videos (it was there so I clicked - I don’t subscribe). Having said that, the R5 has performed natively and without issue with every single lens I’ve put on it and some of them are absolutely outdated.

Your response is fair and I’ll certainly wait to see what other reviewers and actual users think before I form a real opinion about the A1. So far, from what I’ve seen on the spec sheet and heard from now two sources, someone must have the A1 set up wrong as well because no way is it worth two R5s, bird-eye autofocus and/or tracking or no.

It’ll also be interesting to see if the A1 gets roasted (pun) for overheating in 16 minutes unless it’s placed in “cook me daddy” mode, and how well it’s weak rear screen is received seeing as how this is Sony’s 8K mirrorless flagship. Really? THAT screen on a $7000 (with grip that should already be there) camera?

I’ll take two R5s please.


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## Bert63 (Feb 6, 2021)

xps said:


> Despite Mr. Northrup seems to be critical, DPReview more enthusiastic. https://www.dpreview.com/articles/2677095861/hands-on-with-the-sony-alpha-1
> Some Problems solved, but for an 1 Series body, for me at this price point a lot is missing (like top display, handgrip included,...).
> IMO the 7RV will combine a lot of the new features at an dramatically lesser price point.
> 
> ...



DPReview loves video, loves Sony, and this camera is as good as the A7S3 and it does 8K. 8K that lags the R5 in quality, but 8K nonetheless.

So far, through all the reviews I've read/seen no one is raving and no one is firm in their belief that the camera is worth the asking price.

I think the A1's biggest accomplishment so far is making the R5 look like more of a bargain than it already was.


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## slclick (Feb 6, 2021)

The 1D series might have colored my idea of what a flagship should be but the lack of a vertical grip in any Sony FF body is a head scratcher. This single non mechanical feature is a HUGE benefit to 1D shooters. Some say it is at the top of a wishlist for an R1.


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## Aussie shooter (Feb 7, 2021)

slclick said:


> The 1D series might have colored my idea of what a flagship should be but the lack of a vertical grip in any Sony FF body is a head scratcher. This single non mechanical feature is a HUGE benefit to 1D shooters. Some say it is at the top of a wishlist for an R1.


Sony have definitely gone in a different direction for their 'flagship'. They seem to gave decided that is should have ALL the 'top' features. Ie best resolution(almost) . Best AF. Best video. Canon seem to think differently and seem to think the flagship should be the 'will get the job done whatever the circumstances' camera. Not necessarily the top specced in all aspects but will never let you down. Built tough. Built big. Will work when it really really matters.


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## padam (Feb 10, 2021)

Bert63 said:


> DPReview loves video, loves Sony, and this camera is as good as the A7S3 and it does 8K.


Apart from the 8K and the S-Cinetone profile and lower dual native ISO value of 4000 instead of 12800, this camera is inferior to the A7SIII for any type of 4K recording (4k60p and especially 4k120p is much better on the A7SIII compared to the R5 as well, also RAW while being external is much better supported), except it has a 5.8K APS-C crop mode, but they don't mention it anywhere that it shoots 4k60p in the crop mode like the R5. I would like to see that clarified.

So overall I would say that the video is not nearly as impressive as the stills if not shot in 8K, which also uses heavily compressed codecs.


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## AlanF (Feb 25, 2021)

An Excellent Camera That's Overkill For Most: Sony a1 Review


Sony flagship camera is here. The Sony a1. This camera boasts a ton of features and a high price. Is it worth it? Find out in our review.




www.thephoblographer.com




"_Sony has introduced bird AF in the a1. This is a nice feature. However, it feels like this mode is in beta. The bird AF in the Canon EOS R5 and R6 is miles ahead of the a1. The a1 will indeed detect a bird, and a tracking box will be placed around it. If you’re close enough, the Sony a1 will track the bird’s eye. However, the tracking is erratic and not very accurate. With the Canon *EOS R5* and *R6*, the cameras find the bird, then the eye, and the tracking stays locked on the eye almost all the time._"


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