# Canon EOS 6D Mark II Announcement Coming in July [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (May 8, 2017)

```
We’re told that the Canon EOS 6D Mark II will be announced in July of this year, though the exact date is unknown at the time of writing this. The EOS 6D Mark II will also start shipping relatively soon after the announcement, so it’s safe to say you should have your hands on the new camera some time in August, 2017.</p>
<p>Specifications have been extremely hard to come by, and anything out there currently is either made up or just logical features we can expect in the coming body.</p>
<p>We posted a <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/where-is-the-canon-eos-6d-mark-ii/">predicted specifications list back in February</a>, but it’s nothing more than conjecture at this point.</p>
<p>We do expect legitimate specifications to leak out in the coming month or so.</p>
<p>We put a [CR2] on this because announcement dates can move, though it’s more common with lenses than with camera bodies.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## smr (May 8, 2017)

Woohoo fantastic. I was literally just thinking about how tiring it is waiting for the 6Dmk2 and not knowing even if it will even be released.. i was just thinking i'll buy the 80D instead. 

But July / August would be great! As long as its got at least 6fps and a much better focus system/more points i will get one. Cant wait to see what the specs are.

2 years into photography i am ready to upgrade my 700D now as i feel like the camera is holding me back and i know it inside out. Would be a great time to upgrade this Summer.


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## Rockskipper (May 8, 2017)

Does CR2 mean it has a higher level of probability?

I wish there was some way one could know how valid a rumor like this really is, as I'm getting ready to spend some bucks and could wait if it were true. I'm getting ready to take a trip into the Canadian Rockies and Coast Range and would love to have this by the end of July or thereabouts. Maybe I'll take my chances it's true and plan to go in the autumn instead.


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## Luds34 (May 8, 2017)

Awesome! I wish it were sooner, I'm already missing my 6D. But I think I can hold out for a couple of months. This is much better then hearing it's delayed until Xmas!

I'd say I can't wait to hear the final specs but at this point I'm sure they will NOT disappoint me.


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## aceflibble (May 8, 2017)

Good timing; I was just thinking of getting another backup body and couldn't decide whether to risk a punt on a knackered 5D2 or the fresher but slightly-more-expensive-than-I-like-to-pay-for-a-backup 6D. If the 6D2 comes soon, fingers crossed the used market gets flooded with 6Ds and the price bottoms out. Or maybe the 5D3 will do the same.


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## IglooEater (May 8, 2017)

aceflibble said:


> Good timing; I was just thinking of getting another backup body and couldn't decide whether to risk a punt on a knackered 5D2 or the fresher but slightly-more-expensive-than-I-like-to-pay-for-a-backup 6D. If the 6D2 comes soon, fingers crossed the used market gets flooded with 6Ds and the price bottoms out. Or maybe the 5D3 will do the same.



Haha, someone who thinks like me! I almost thought I was reading one of my own comments.


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## unfocused (May 8, 2017)

Let the 7DIII rumors begin!


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## preppyak (May 9, 2017)

Rockskipper said:


> I'm getting ready to take a trip into the Canadian Rockies and Coast Range and would love to have this by the end of July or thereabouts. Maybe I'll take my chances it's true and plan to go in the autumn instead.


While Canon is usually pretty good with product launches, the chance there is some major bug in the camera are still there, which would make it hard to rely on for a trip on Day 1. Not to mention going into a major trip not knowing how a new camera works...

Original 6D had a 2 month lag between announcement and shipping date. Even if this is faster, end of July is ambitious


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## Rockskipper (May 9, 2017)

preppyak said:


> Rockskipper said:
> 
> 
> > I'm getting ready to take a trip into the Canadian Rockies and Coast Range and would love to have this by the end of July or thereabouts. Maybe I'll take my chances it's true and plan to go in the autumn instead.
> ...



True dat. Maybe I'll just plan on using my old Captain Crunch pinhole camera (an old Rebel) or go ahead and get a 5dM4.


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## veng (May 9, 2017)

jayt567 said:


> This would be great news for us Canon shooters who aren't quite in that 5D, 1DX market....hobbyists, enthusiasts who would like the cleaner images of full frame. If the 6D is spec'd around what the 80D, is, that would be more than enough for me. Don't really have any need for video features myself, although I realize a lot of you would like this. I would also like to see a jump to 1/8000 shutter speed as a wildlife photographer but probably wishful thinking there as well. Let's hope for the best middle ground for all of us at a price point that won't make us cringe. Keeping my fingers crossed!


 If they do that, you can expect it to be priced slightly less than a 5D, because that's basically what you've described.


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## ahsanford (May 9, 2017)

aceflibble said:


> Good timing; I was just thinking of getting another backup body and couldn't decide whether to risk a punt on a knackered 5D2 or the fresher but slightly-more-expensive-than-I-like-to-pay-for-a-backup 6D. If the 6D2 comes soon, fingers crossed the used market gets flooded with 6Ds and the price bottoms out. Or maybe the 5D3 will do the same.



Expect the 5D3 to go poof shortly after the 6D2 announcement. There really is no reason to keep it alive any longer after that.

- A


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## Cory (May 9, 2017)

Is there any major difference between DIGIC 5 and DIGIC 7 and, if so, does it matter? I'm on the verge of everything "crop" selling on ebay.


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## camerone (May 9, 2017)

I've loved my 6D as long as I've had it, it hasn't really disappointed me at all. There are some limitations (cough sync speed cough) I'd like to see addressed in the 6D2 but I love the weight of the 6D. I'm willing to sacrifice crazy features if it means the body will stay just as petite... All I really hope for right now is that the 6D2 is super popular so that the market gets flooded with used ones in a couple of years


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## aceflibble (May 9, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Expect the 5D3 to go poof shortly after the 6D2 announcement. There really is no reason to keep it alive any longer after that.
> 
> - A


That's what I'd hope. 6D was made to replace the 5D2 and mitigate the damage caused by the 5D2 on the second hand market, so I'd expect the 6D2 to be the same for the 5D3. The 5D3 has already ceased production, so they'll likely wait for the last remaining stock to be sold off, then get the 6D2 out there at a similar price point to a used 5D3.

Which is great for me. 6D and 5D3 prices will drop and there will be more copies around, so it should be easier to get a clean one. A 5D3 as a 3rd backup body would be a nice catch.



preppyak said:


> Rockskipper said:
> 
> 
> > I'm getting ready to take a trip into the Canadian Rockies and Coast Range and would love to have this by the end of July or thereabouts. Maybe I'll take my chances it's true and plan to go in the autumn instead.
> ...


Cameras don't have a ~2 month gap between announcement and shipping because of bugs, necessarily. That's just standard production and marketing. You always want to leave as much time as possible between announcement and shipping so you can maximise pre-orders (people guaranteed to be paying the highest possible price) balanced against still getting things out soon enough that people don't forget about it and move on.

Nor is this unique to cameras, or photography. Every company does it for every product, everywhere. Phones, computer parts, game consoles, cars, musical instruments, vacuum cleaners; you name it, every company does it. There is no benefit at all to getting your product on store shelves directly after announcement. It's always better to wait and give the news time to spread and for orders to come in.

_Always_ expect a minimum of 1 month between announcement and shipping of a new camera body; in the vast majority of cases it'll be in the 2-3 month range. Never be surprised if it takes 4-5 months. I would only expect something is actually going wrong in production if either they announce a delay from their original stated shipping date, or if their original shipping date is 6+ months from announcement in the first place.


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## ozwineguy (May 9, 2017)

jayt567 said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Let the 7DIII rumors begin!
> ...



Ah so that's not just me then! I picked one up as a backup body - and also for the extra FPS and reach for the very odd occasions that I shoot sports (about once a year). The shots do feel quite soft to me, too. I was really surprised with that, because I'd heard so many great things about it. My brother has a 7DII as well, and his shots are the same (although he's happy enough with the camera - maybe I'm just picky).

I might sell my 7DII to fund a 6DII as my backup, and hire a 1DXII for those rare sports days. I previously had a 6D and quite liked the images out of it. An improvement in the AF system will do it for me.


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## Jopa (May 9, 2017)

Does it mean the SL2 is also coming in July?


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## Mt Spokane Photography (May 9, 2017)

Cory said:


> Is there any major difference between DIGIC 5 and DIGIC 7 and, if so, does it matter? I'm on the verge of everything "crop" selling on ebay.



New Digic processors get more power efficient as feature size is reduced, so you get more computing power per watt. This means that complex calculations needed for dual Pixel technology or higher MP sensors can be accomplished without need for a new larger battery.

So, a Digic 7+ compared to a 5+ can do more things.


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## mclaren777 (May 9, 2017)

Hopefully this also means that we'll get the 85mm IS around August.

*crosses fingers*


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## brianftpc (May 9, 2017)

it better have 4k 30p.....and how will they cripple it to make it seem worth 1400 less than the 5d mk4


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## eosuser1234 (May 9, 2017)

I never had a problem syncing up to 1/4000 with Hypersync using pocket wizards, and setting my flashes to 1/1 power on manual. Need less light, mess with ISO, or move flashes further from subject. It is much better than HSS, which makes moving subjects look soft or fuzzy. Hypersync is the real deal. And no problems with syncing at anyspeed.


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## wildwalker (May 9, 2017)

Well after the disappointment of the 5DMk4 (for me) I hope the 6D Mk2 is better.

(for the 5DMk4 I think the features were weak, especially on video on release. and the price was too high compared to previous 5DMkx bodies).

If the 6DMk2 has the DPAF, and a better focussing system (which lets be honest, it would have to have) then I think I will buy one of these. I use the 5DMk2 currently, and an loking for better focussing performance over the 5DMk2, along with a big bump in dynamic range (I would say 3 stops over the 5DMk2, what do you think?)

Cheers all.
Alan.


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## Sporgon (May 9, 2017)

wildwalker said:


> Well after the disappointment of the 5DMk4 (for me) I hope the 6D Mk2 is better.
> (I would say 3 stops over the 5DMk2, what do you think?)



I think that if you were disappointed with the 5DIV you're a hard man to please


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## Mikehit (May 9, 2017)

wildwalker said:


> Well after the disappointment of the 5DMk4 (for me) I hope the 6D Mk2 is better.
> 
> (for the 5DMk4 I think the features were weak, especially on video on release. and the price was too high compared to previous 5DMkx bodies).
> 
> ...



The release price of the 5DIV is the same as the 5DIII was. So what was 'expensive' about it? 
I would be very surprised if the 6D2 did not have a better AF system than the 5D2, given advances in the meantime (even the 80D has a better AF than the 5D2). But 3 stops dynamic range? I think you being very optimistic.


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## Sabaki (May 9, 2017)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Cory said:
> 
> 
> > Is there any major difference between DIGIC 5 and DIGIC 7 and, if so, does it matter? I'm on the verge of everything "crop" selling on ebay.
> ...



As somebody who has a zero engineering background, does the improved power efficiency translate to lower noise output too?

As a sidebar, I was asked images taken on a 5D original would compare to an 80D and 5Div and I wasn't quite sure on how to answer.


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## Chaitanya (May 9, 2017)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Cory said:
> 
> 
> > Is there any major difference between DIGIC 5 and DIGIC 7 and, if so, does it matter? I'm on the verge of everything "crop" selling on ebay.
> ...



Also with faster and newer processors new improved image processing algorithm can be implemented. Though most of the times faster CPUs do help Jpeg and video shooters rathern than RAW shooters. 

With nearly a 5 year life cycle, 6D mark II better be a impressive upgrade and not another gimped Canon upgrade.


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## Mikehit (May 9, 2017)

Sabaki said:


> As somebody who has a zero engineering background, does the improved power efficiency translate to lower noise output too?
> 
> As a sidebar, I was asked images taken on a 5D original would compare to an 80D and 5Div and I wasn't quite sure on how to answer.



Interesting question on the power efficiency and noise. I assume power efficiency of the processor will have some impact, but given that noise comes from different sources I am not sure how noticeable the processor efficiency would be. I suspect that like so many things in electronics and computing, get a better processor to do something quicker and the first thing they do is give it more tasks to do. Back to square one. 

The original 5D still turns out some great images but it depends on what you want to do. Portraits and controlled lighting the original 5D will be almost as good as anything available now. If you need it high ISO (1600 and above), or need for efficient AF (wildlife, sports) then give me the 80D any day. 
Print at 20"x30" - the 5DIV will be better, and probably the 80D as well. 

When the 7D came out, I saw a comparison shot of the 7D with the 5D2 that (to me) demonstrated that with good lighting a processing, you could not tell the difference between the two at prints below 20". I saw a similar comparison between the 5Diii and the 7D2. There are some things that FF cameras are better at, but it is not universal.


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## transpo1 (May 9, 2017)

So for video specs, I'm guessing-


less of a crop in 4K than the 5DIV (as MP will be less)
and no C-Log (obviously)

Is that the consensus?


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## ScottyP (May 9, 2017)

I just hope 6d2 doesn't go the way 5d4 (and 5d3) went, with black autofocus points rather than red illuminated af points. I nearly bought a 5d4 over the weekend but even in the mostly well-lit B&H store I lost track of the AF points I was selecting. I decided to wait for the 6d2 and see if it will have around 45 or so af points, and if they will be illuminated. In that case I'm a buyer.


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## vangelismm (May 9, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> wildwalker said:
> 
> 
> > Well after the disappointment of the 5DMk4 (for me) I hope the 6D Mk2 is better.
> ...



Almost every Rebel and the XXD line, from the time of 5D mk II, have better AF!
But lets hope for 9 cross points.


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## rfdesigner (May 9, 2017)

Sabaki said:


> As somebody who has a zero engineering background, does the improved power efficiency translate to lower noise output too?
> 
> As a sidebar, I was asked images taken on a 5D original would compare to an 80D and 5Div and I wasn't quite sure on how to answer.



Power efficiency is usually BAD for noise.

HOWEVER.

GPS is GOOD for noise.

For reference I design electronics, usually radio stuff, and do a lot of electro-magnetic-compatibility.. or EMC.

GPS is good as it is so sensitive to noise in it's available radio bands that everything else must be quiet otherwise it stops working. I strongly believe this is why the 6D (mk1) was the best of the twin chip (sensor + ADC) cameras Canon has built when it comes to banding.

With the new Sensor and ADC on one chip, everyone get's better/zero banding because the most sensitive bit is a couple of orders of magnitude smaller.

Efficiency often means better DC-DC converters.. and those things are HORRIBLE for noise, Good DC-DC converters use screening cans, EMC filters etc.. this makes them bigger.
Alternatively if the load reduces then things will get quieter.. how much is primarily dependant on how well made the device is when it comes to EMC... so having a super sensitive gizmo on board is a plus.

Regarding normal readout noise, we are getting very close to the limits of electronic readout. The 6D was around 1.5e readout noise (at high ISO).. even if you reduced that to zero, when you image an object producing say 9e signal per pixel, your noise will still be 3e ( square-root of signal ).

To improve low light ability you really need to capture more photons, and that either means back illumination (photons are usually detected below the chips metalwork, illuminating from the back means the metalwork doesn't block the light, however you need to backthin the silicon and it's oh so easy to break it when you backgrind)

Alternatively you do away with the bayer matrix and split the lights colour some other way, such as Foveon or triple sensor and dichroic filters.

Sony went back illuminated recently, at some point Canon will probably do the same (they do have the technology). Though I'd be surprised to see that on a 6 series camera first.


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## K (May 9, 2017)

The rumor of an announcement is a good thing. Some sites have been speculating that the 6D2 will never happen. This was floated a while back. It could be that Canon is getting better internal controls of their information, and thus rumors are getting harder to come by, and silence is interpreted as "not happening" ...?

As far as rumored specs - I believe all of it except for 2 things both happening at the same time.

1. 45pt AF system
2. Dual Card Slots

There is a decent chance we get one of those, but doubtful we get both. Canon, as always - as is their character, will put some big let-down absence of feature in there.

I'm thinking we get either a 19pt system or a new system with 2 slots. Or the 45pt system with 1 slot.

The idea will be, which will harm the 5D4 the least. 

In this day and age, Canon should give both. Being that the D750 from Nikon is 2-slot, 24mp, tilt screen and 51pt AF all for $1500. But we know that's not how Canon operates.

19pt AF is crappy by today's standards and would be a serious downgrade from the 5D4 for anyone wanting to do events. So having 2 slots, but that AF is going to suck.

However, for many years photogs have done great work with that system and worse. There's still thousands of focus and recomposers out there. So data redundancy and safety is very nice to have. Remember, the 6D is all about getting FF on the cheap. The 6D2, even with less megapixels stands to have about the same practical IQ as the 5D4, maybe better. 

So they might opt instead for a 45pt AF system, but then squash any aspirations for serious pro-use by crippling it with one slot. I think this is far more likely of the two. Only thing is, there's a lot of people out there that just don't care and risk doing jobs with 1 card. Having FF and 45pt system is going to be pretty strong combo for work and unless you need some specific feature of the 5D4, why buy it? And therein lies the reason why the 6D2 must be crippled in some way.

It comes down to which lack of feature will deter pro use and protect the 5D4 the most. Heck, it could even be both. 19pt and 1 slot. That would be very shameful though. That would firmly place the 6D2 as 'all you're getting is a FF sensor' camera. At that point, I cannot see anyone with any common sense buying a 6D2 as an entry level FF over the Nikon D750. Nikon glass is good enough and close enough in price. Significantly better value, more feature rich. No comparison. Besides, while Canon glass is that great - to get that greatness is $1500 - $2000 per lens. People buying a few lenses of that level aren't going to restrict themselves to a 6D2 anyway. I'd bet most 6D owners might have one or two L, and the rest medium lenses. Or just medium grade glass. Much the same with the Nikon side. These are people not looking to spend $10,000 on a system. Thus, they are going to want a feature rich body that offers big value.

I don't know how 5D4 sales have been, but it seems to me the buzz and hype over it is dramatically less than the 5D3 was when it came out and when it was in its heyday. Yes, the market is in a decline overall. And there's more competition now. But still, the 5D4 isn't getting this type of industry wide praise the 5D3 was as king of the hill. The must have, do-all FF beast. 


As for the 7D3, I really think Canon should have abandoned their 5 year cycle on this one - and offered up a quicker refresh. Basically, keep the camera exactly the same except - build in the wifi, and update the sensor to the newer on-chip ADC that have much better Dynamic Range like the 80D. Perhaps dump the AA filter too. A huge perk would be going to 11fps, but not needed. A sensor update alone would be very welcome and all that is necessary.

If they are going to wait another 2 years to update this thing, they might as well make it their debut for a full-read global shutter type sensor like the Sony A9. That way they can up the FPS dramatically, and offer something new and revolutionary. They have patents in the works....so at some point this should surface. Maybe just in their mirrorless cameras....But think about how far behind the 7D3 will be in 2 years from now when all it gets is a sensor that is maybe the equal of Sony/Nikon's 24mp APS-C from 2015 era....that would be sad. 

It would also be sad for Sony/Nikon, because they have to ask themselves why Canon is leading the market even though they've had a superior APS-C sensor on the market for what will be 5+ years unmatched.

**
Anyway, Canon has a real huge opportunity here to deal a death-blow to Nikon with the 6D2. Decent AF and 2-card slots makes the D610 & D750 obsolete. And these are very popular cameras for entry-level pros and enthusiasts. Nikon is already hurting, and their biggest appeal is these feature rich, low cost FF.


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## Takingshots (May 9, 2017)

Great. Hopefully they will price their camera competitively cheap so that they can sell lots of premium price lens like Sony.


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## Takingshots (May 9, 2017)

After reading what Canon fans want I thought perhaps it maybe too late for Canon to up their game to match all of those requested. Well at this point the camera is all set to showcase and market how good and different it is against their lineup of cameras. Remember Canon if you cannot match what the competitor has to offer in the specifications; at least bring the price down to level that is enticingly attractive...eh?


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## Mikehit (May 9, 2017)

K said:


> The rumor of an announcement is a good thing. Some sites have been speculating that the 6D2 will never happen. This was floated a while back. It could be that Canon is getting better internal controls of their information, and thus rumors are getting harder to come by, and silence is interpreted as "not happening" ...?
> 
> 
> etc



A whole load of emotive words in there - to my mind excessive use of the word 'cripple'. What exactly do you mean by that? Is 'manufacture to a price' now called 'crippling'? 

You hit the nail on the head when you said"People buying a few lenses of that level aren't going to restrict themselves to a 6D2 anyway". Expand that to 'the market to which the 6D2 is aimed' is not probably not bothered about 45-point AF or dual card slots. Useful, yes. But expect them?

This keeps on cropping up time and again - what is the aim of the 6D2? The aim of the 6D was introduction to full frame at a knock-down price. If (and this is the key question)....if the 6D2 is intended as an introduction to FF at 2,000 USD, why would you expect anything near to what the 5D4 offers? If you want a FF version of the 6D2 then how much would it cost to substitute a FF sensor (with all the processing hardware and software) for a APS-C?


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## Mikehit (May 9, 2017)

K said:


> At that point, I cannot see anyone with any common sense buying a 6D2 as an entry level FF over the Nikon D750. Nikon glass is good enough and close enough in price. Significantly better value, more feature rich.



So anyone with a xxxD camera wanting to go FF would say 'hey, I will just sell my gear, take a loss and move to Nikon all for the sake of 2 card slots'? No, they will go 6D2. And those that do are not going to be in the numbers that matter to Canon. Nikon will take the same view over aspects of their products as well - most photographers are brand loyal and not bothered about the minor improvements in changing brands. 

So tell me, where does this 'common sense' apply?



> I don't know how 5D4 sales have been, but it seems to me the buzz and hype over it is dramatically less than the 5D3 was when it came out and when it was in its heyday. Yes, the market is in a decline overall. And there's more competition now. But still, the 5D4 isn't getting this type of industry wide praise the 5D3 was as king of the hill. The must have, do-all FF beast.



The 5DIV never was going to shake the foundations of the industry because the technology in all brands is quite mature. But anyone who has sold the 5DIII has said the overall package the 5DIV offers is a worthwhile upgrade. The fact that the 5DIV has not seen a price drop over 6 months after its release (bar the odd offer here and there) suggests it is selling quite nicely.


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## shutterlag (May 9, 2017)

So it comes down to, how do they gimp it? What do they leave out? What features do they include on for the spec sheet but cripple in practice (i.e. codec). Here's my list of the major weak points you can probably call out without even seeing the camera:

No dual card slots 
Crippled 4k video
No IBIS, which is pathetic given the 6 stops that Panasonic & Olympus have achieved by combining IBIS + lens IS, and doubly sad because Pentax and Sony are both shipping FF bodies with IBIS.
No astrotracing, since that requires IBIS
AF array inferior to 5D mark IV, showing they haven't learned from Nikon's example


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## CanonCams (May 9, 2017)

aceflibble said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Expect the 5D3 to go poof shortly after the 6D2 announcement. There really is no reason to keep it alive any longer after that.
> ...



"The 5D3 has already ceased production"

How do you know this?


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## CanonCams (May 9, 2017)

ScottyP said:


> I just hope 6d2 doesn't go the way 5d4 (and 5d3) went, with black autofocus points rather than red illuminated af points. I nearly bought a 5d4 over the weekend but even in the mostly well-lit B&H store I lost track of the AF points I was selecting. I decided to wait for the 6d2 and see if it will have around 45 or so af points, and if they will be illuminated. In that case I'm a buyer.



If it is going to be similar to the 80D, it should have red focus points.


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## Mikehit (May 9, 2017)

shutterlag said:


> So it comes down to, how do they gimp it? What do they leave out? What features do they include on for the spec sheet but cripple in practice (i.e. codec). Here's my list of the major weak points you can probably call out without even seeing the camera:
> 
> No dual card slots
> Crippled 4k video
> ...



Do you go onto Pentax, Sony, Panasonic and Olympus forums and point out how they are dead meat because they do not do the things that Canon do well?


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## CanonCams (May 9, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> This keeps on cropping up time and again - what is the aim of the 6D2? The aim of the 6D was introduction to full frame at a knock-down price. If (and this is the key question)....if the 6D2 is intended as an introduction to FF at 2,000 USD, why would you expect anything near to what the 5D4 offers? If you want a FF version of the 6D2 then how much would it cost to substitute a FF sensor (with all the processing hardware and software) for a APS-C?



Yes, the big question is how much more are people willing to pay for the 5D MK IV? Are dual slots worth the extra $1k ? How about more focus points?


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## wildwalker (May 9, 2017)

Sporgon said:


> wildwalker said:
> 
> 
> > Well after the disappointment of the 5DMk4 (for me) I hope the 6D Mk2 is better.
> ...



Lol maybe. 

I wasn't totally disappointed  Just the pricing was way to high in my opinion, the 5KMk2 was £2000, the Mk3 was £3000 and the Mk4 £3700, a big hike in price, but not so much in features. The biggest gripe was the UHD only being p30, I work in the broadcast industry and this is quite frankly laughable.

I don't use the video much on my Mk2, and so am not that concerned, but if you are going to bump the price, the features should match.

Aaaaaaaaaannddd then there is the £99 if you want C-Log (omg I'm ranting, I'll stop now lol)

So anyway, the 6DMk2 should have what I want in terms of a stills camera, but I think that if the rumoured £2000 price tag is true then that is okay (it's a little more than the £1700 launch price of the 6D Mk1).

All the best,
Alan.


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## jeffa4444 (May 9, 2017)

Ive been using the 5D MKIV along side the 5DS for two weeks. The biggest like on the 5D MKIV is the lever for going through focusing points quickly with the camera still at eye level. In all other respects and in real world use there is very little difference operationally and that's not a bad thing. The images from the 5D MKIV are very good but then in well lit situations they are from the 5DS (low light the MKIV is better). The 5DS definitely allows for harsher cropping. (Ive the Wi-Fi card for the 5DS hardly ever used it but its useful in landscape, GPS is a big attraction for landscape)

So do I think the 5D MKIV is worth £ 700 ($ 900) more that the price of the 5DS, no. 

So I will wait until the 6D MKII comes out before deciding what I replace my 6D with which still remains a great travel camera and has been a faithful workhorse.


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## ahsanford (May 9, 2017)

K said:


> The rumor of an announcement is a good thing...



Many interesting thoughts here. Thx for the post.

1) *I see the 6D2 being a full-frame 80D* (in broad strokes): significant AF upgrade (more than 19 and less than 61/65 of the nicer rigs) + tilty-flippy + DPAF + single slot + 5-6 fps. However, 4K (and how croppy it might be), 1/8000 shutter, and better sync speed would appear to be the 'maybe not for this price point' sort of decisions.

2) *'Death blow to Nikon' is exceptionally premature* -- don't let a chain of bad business decisions in other segments (APS-C compacts, CX sensored mirrorless, etc.) fool you into thinking they've forgotten how an SLR works. An update to all of the D610 / D750 / D810 are in the works and if the D500 is any indication, Nikon is not fooling around with how much tech they'll pack into a new rig. Backlit keys, massive buffers, oodles of AF points -- short of IBIS and strong video AF, it seems like everything will be packed into their future FF SLRs.

3) Re: *low buzz on the 5D4 vs. 5D3* -- largely, I agree, but now the 5D# line is a mature, it somewhat markets itself and I'd imagine sales are steady there. Also, Canon needs to put more energy into newer stuff that the 5D2 set into motion -- like folks making movies (Cinema EOS), enthusiasts stepping up to FF (6D line), etc. -- so it stands to reason that Canon's marketing focus is naturally more spread out given how many more lines of cameras they carry.

4) I am a broken record on the 7D3. Just because the D500 exists and Canon now has better on-chip ADC sensors does not mean a fast refresh 7D3 will happen. That's an forum-dweller engineering a christmas-comes-early outcome that walks against the grain of Canon being Canon: _nothing is ever refreshed faster than the cycle that came before it._ *The 7D3 will happen in 2019-ish timeframe* unless 7D2 sales completely tank, and I've seen zero evidence to that effect. 

- A


----------



## ahsanford (May 9, 2017)

Takingshots said:


> After reading what Canon fans want I thought perhaps it maybe too late for Canon to up their game to match all of those requested. Well at this point the camera is all set to showcase and market how good and different it is against their lineup of cameras. Remember Canon if you cannot match what the competitor has to offer in the specifications; at least bring the price down to level that is enticingly attractive...eh?



You are forgetting the specs that Canon never really need to advertise that the Sonys of the world do not offer. Put on your rose-tinted glasses to see the _hidden_ specs in a Canon camera that dramatically bolster why they charge what they charge:


blah blah blah megapixels
blah blah blah AF points
*Natively compatible with / ideally performs with the largest FF lens portfolio in the industry*
blah blah blah fps
blah blah blah card slots
*Honesty / up-front fine print with the specs -- no surprises with compressed RAW, locked AF after first exposure, limited fps with AF with certain lenses, etc.*
*The finest reliability / service / build quality of all the major camera manufacturers*
blah blah blah sync speed
*Robust resale value*
blah blah blah video options
blah blah blah wifi / NFC items
*Ergonomics, handling, menu setup that doesn't make you want to kill things with a hammer*
blah blah blah touchscreen
blah blah blah AA filters
*The largest third party ecosystem of accessories and lenses to use with your camera*
blah blah blah ISO limits

So the notion that Canon needs to jam as much tech as Sony / Pentax into their rigs or they should only charge Sony / Pentax prices = madness. Other companies *should* charge less for their stuff because they often cannot claim they offer the stuff in black above -- and most people really care about those things.

- A


----------



## ahsanford (May 9, 2017)

shutterlag said:


> So it comes down to, how do they gimp it? What do they leave out? What features do they include on for the spec sheet but cripple in practice (i.e. codec). Here's my list of the major weak points you can probably call out without even seeing the camera:
> 
> No dual card slots
> Crippled 4k video
> ...



Agree on dual card slots and video, but AF simply must be nerfed to the 5D4 to some extent.

IBIS = : <-- this is CaNikon rolling its eyes at something useful that its marketeers have determined they won't lose business for not offering it, so it moves on without it. Every forum-dweller fight-starter stokes their engines in glee each time they do. I've already devoted too many words to blowing it off. Not happening.

You forgot fps, which I think will be ever-so-slightly nerfed at 5-6 fps under the 5D4's nerfed-to-protect-the-1DX2 somewhat disappointing 7 fps. (I will always bemoan how a 5DS and 7D2 -- two wildly different cameras for different camps of shooters -- gets two DIGIC chips while the 5D# line always gets one, but I digress.)

You also forgot overall build quality, which cannot be overstated. The 5D line is very well built.

- A


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## GammyKnee (May 9, 2017)

rfdesigner said:


> GPS is good as it is so sensitive to noise in it's available radio bands that everything else must be quiet otherwise it stops working. I strongly believe this is why the 6D (mk1) was the best of the twin chip (sensor + ADC) cameras Canon has built when it comes to banding.



Just want to say thanks for this post - I really appreciated getting a little insight into all this stuff!


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## ahsanford (May 9, 2017)

CanonCams said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > This keeps on cropping up time and again - what is the aim of the 6D2? The aim of the 6D was introduction to full frame at a knock-down price. If (and this is the key question)....if the 6D2 is intended as an introduction to FF at 2,000 USD, why would you expect anything near to what the 5D4 offers? If you want a FF version of the 6D2 then how much would it cost to substitute a FF sensor (with all the processing hardware and software) for a APS-C?
> ...



I see the 6D2 climbing up from a 'knock-down price FF rig' into something better for the growing FF userbase that wants more tech. I see it sliding nicely into the D750 + aging 5D3 space -- a nice all-arounder that comprehensively steps up from its predecessor.

- A


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## scrup (May 9, 2017)

Announcement of an announcement. Yahoo. Can't wait to see what new tech Canon brings to the table.


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## privatebydesign (May 9, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> (I will always bemoan how a 5DS and 7D2 -- two wildly different cameras for different camps of shooters -- gets two DIGIC chips while the 5D# line always gets one, but I digress.)



Because one is more efficient than two from a power and processing point of view, but Digic 6 and 6+'s don't have the processing power and speed to match the Digic 7, but the 7 wasn't ready for the 7D MkII and 5DS/r.

The 7 series camera fills the processes per second equation with lower resolution but higher fps, the 5DS/r the other way around.


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## ahsanford (May 9, 2017)

privatebydesign said:


> Because one is more efficient than two from a power and processing point of view, but Digic 6 and 6+'s don't have the processing power and speed to match the Digic 7, but the 7 wasn't ready for the 7D MkII and 5DS/r.
> 
> The 7 series camera fills the processes per second equation with lower resolution but higher fps, the 5DS/r the other way around.



What I'm saying is:

The 5DS got the support of 'if it's not 5 fps it's not viable as a general use rig' --> so it got a second chip.

The 7D2 got the support of 'it's not 10 fps it's not competitive as a sports/wildlife rig' --> so it got a second chip.

The 5D4 did not tock a 'too slow for general use' box and it isn't thought of as a high fps line for action, so Canon saved its money. 

Normally, that's fine, but the latest rumored 6D2 specs here were 6 fps (if I recall correctly), just one shy of the 5D4's 7 fps. I still contend that 8-9 fps would have better cemented the 5D4 in the 'not so sexy as to steal 1DX2 sales' column while keeping a 6 fps 6D2 a clear step below the 5D4.

- A


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## jedy (May 9, 2017)

I'd love a clean HDMI out but somehow doubt that. Something about not wanting to cannibalise their cine camera range which means loosing out to Sony and Panasonic instead.


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## wildwalker (May 9, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> wildwalker said:
> 
> 
> > Well after the disappointment of the 5DMk4 (for me) I hope the 6D Mk2 is better.
> ...



Is 3 stops optimistic (I am talking over the 5DMk2, in case I didn't make that clear, sorry).

When I first saw the 5KMk3 at NAB (I think it was 2012) the Canon guys told me it had two stops dynamic range over the 5DMk2, so I am factoring in a little enthusiasm there and figuring that since my 5DMk2 is now approaching 9 years old (I bought it end 2008) that an extra stop of dynamic range over the last four years, plus the two that Canon told me over the 5DMk3 would give me circa three stops of Dynamic range in the 6DMk2 over the 5DMk2.

I could of course be completely wrong, and if you know better about the possible specs please let me know, I am looking to buy the 6KMk2 this year so any information is welcome.

Alan


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## BeenThere (May 9, 2017)

At this point, everyone is speculating. No solid specification rumors yet.


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## privatebydesign (May 9, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> What I'm saying is:
> 
> The 5DS got the support of 'if it's not 5 fps it's not viable as a general use rig' --> so it got a second chip.
> 
> ...



The 5DS/r and 7D MkII have two Digic 6's, the 5D MkIV has one Digic 6+ and one 6.


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## Mikehit (May 9, 2017)

wildwalker said:


> Is 3 stops optimistic (I am talking over the 5DMk2, in case I didn't make that clear, sorry).
> 
> When I first saw the 5KMk3 at NAB (I think it was 2012) the Canon guys told me it had two stops dynamic range over the 5DMk2, so I am factoring in a little enthusiasm there and figuring that since my 5DMk2 is now approaching 9 years old (I bought it end 2008) that an extra stop of dynamic range over the last four years, plus the two that Canon told me over the 5DMk3 would give me circa three stops of Dynamic range in the 6DMk2 over the 5DMk2.
> 
> ...



Sensor technology has not advanced a whole lot since the 5D2. Yes, there have been incremental changes, and yes the backlit sensor has added to that, but I sometimes get the feeling that any increases are limited to lower ISOs and even then some of that is due to massaging of the technology than a genuine widening of the dynamic range


----------



## ashmadux (May 9, 2017)

IglooEater said:


> aceflibble said:
> 
> 
> > Good timing; I was just thinking of getting another backup body and couldn't decide whether to risk a punt on a knackered 5D2 or the fresher but slightly-more-expensive-than-I-like-to-pay-for-a-backup 6D. If the 6D2 comes soon, fingers crossed the used market gets flooded with 6Ds and the price bottoms out. Or maybe the 5D3 will do the same.
> ...



Someone PLEASE take my 6d so i can get a 80d....i cant take lying on the ground for low shots anymore. Also need some of that live view tracking goodness.

Over a year, hasn't been touched...its so lonely 

and for the love of god and all that is holy, PLEASE CANON put a full swivel screen...not that one direction crap.


----------



## wildwalker (May 9, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> wildwalker said:
> 
> 
> > Is 3 stops optimistic (I am talking over the 5DMk2, in case I didn't make that clear, sorry).
> ...



Thank you for the info Mikehit, I might take my 5DMk2 to the shop and do some test shots using that and the 6DMk2 for a little test when it is out.

I want to get another body as I am a bit nervous about the age of the 5DMk2, I use some APS-C bodies as a backup, but would love another FF sensor body.

The important things for me are (over the 5DMk2) more DR, better (faster) focusing, better noise handling at ISO3200/6400 and that is really about it. Hopefully the 6DMk2 will tick those boxes.

Thanks for the replies,
Alan.


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## Sporgon (May 9, 2017)

wildwalker said:


> The important things for me are (over the 5DMk2) more DR, better (faster) focusing, better noise handling at ISO3200/6400 and that is really about it. Hopefully the 6DMk2 will tick those boxes.



Having owned a 6D for a couple of years I'd say that the current one ticks those boxes to be quite honest. As with all things DR on the current 14 bit sensors, the DR increase is really just about improved shadow recovery. I still use a 5DII too, the advantages that the 6D has over the 5DII didn't win me over in the end. Both these cameras have robust highlights and good highlight headroom, so as long as I don't underexposed the 5DII I never have any issues. The current 6D has a much improved QE over the 5DII, and so the latter can't compete at very high ISO even with the latest raw converters. Also I wouldn't expect the QE of the 6DII to be much of an improvement over the current one.


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## aceflibble (May 10, 2017)

LOL @ people thinking a 6D2 will be in any way made to be comparable to a 5D4, let alone better than it in any way.

The 6D was made to mitigate the 5D2 on the second hand market. It compared to the 5D2, while the 5D3 was the top '5' body at the time.

The 6D2 will be for mitigating sales of the 5D3 on the second hand market. It will compare to the 5D3, while the 5D4 and 5DS/R are the top '5' bodies.

Stop thinking about the 6D2 in terms of what the 5D4, 5DSR, 80D, or 7D3 are/might be. It's going to be a 5D3 with a slightly cheaper body shell and SD cards instead of CF. That is its _entire_ purpose for being. Nothing more, nothing less, nothing different.


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## ahsanford (May 10, 2017)

aceflibble said:


> LOL @ people thinking a 6D2 will be in any way made to be comparable to a 5D4, let alone better than it in any way.



LOL indeed. Where would they get that nutty idea? :

Answer: The 6D _already did_ offer things above and beyond what the 5D3 offered...


The 6D had a -3 EV AF center point. The 5D3 did not.
Some would argue the 6D was an ever-so-slightly better sensor than the 5D3 -- depending on what you shoot.
The 6D had Wifi onboard. The 5D3 did not.
The 6D had GPS onboard. The 5D3 did not.

...so it's not a stretch whatsoever to think the 6D2 might do the same to the 5D4.

*I am not for a moment purporting the 6D was a better camera overall than the 5D3* because that would be insane. But in some aspects, the 6D absolutely got features the 5D3 did not -- this is not a matter of opinion.

Expect the 6D2 to do the same. It will get some small/nice things (beyond the tilty-flippy LCD) that will make the 5D4 owners _juuuuust_ a little jealous. My vote is on a 'It is a 6 fps camera with an FF sensor on par with the 5D4's sensor for $1500 less.' 

- A


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## Chisox2335 (May 10, 2017)

ashmadux said:


> IglooEater said:
> 
> 
> > aceflibble said:
> ...





I'll happily take it. I'll even send a self addressed prepaid box.


----------



## Chisox2335 (May 10, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> aceflibble said:
> 
> 
> > LOL @ people thinking a 6D2 will be in any way made to be comparable to a 5D4, let alone better than it in any way.
> ...



I agree and think the 6D2 sensor might be slightly bettedifferent than the 5D4. I really wish the 6D2 came out earlier. I have two trips scheduled that I don't think it will be out in time so I'm likely going to get the 5D4 instead.


----------



## K (May 10, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> 2) *'Death blow to Nikon' is exceptionally premature* -- don't let a chain of bad business decisions in other segments (APS-C compacts, CX sensored mirrorless, etc.) fool you into thinking they've forgotten how an SLR works. An update to all of the D610 / D750 / D810 are in the works and if the D500 is any indication, Nikon is not fooling around with how much tech they'll pack into a new rig. Backlit keys, massive buffers, oodles of AF points -- short of IBIS and strong video AF, it seems like everything will be packed into their future FF SLRs.




If Canon offered a camera as feature and spec rich as Nikon's entry level FF and given Canon's glass lineup - Canon would murder Nikon sales in that whole segment. 

Your statement about how Nikon packs everything they can in there is true.

Right now, the D750 is a 24mp FF with 6fps, a very good 51pt AF system and dual card slots. With tilt screen too. For $1,500 on sale now. Their sensor already has on chip ADC, and produces incredible DR and image quality.

This is a camera that has been out a while now. 

Yet, the specs we're only dreaming and hoping for, from a Canon camera that hasn't even been announced and for around $2,000 are weaker specs than what Nikon has offered now for nearly 2 years...

*****


To those posters who keep dredging up the old strawman argument that people are expecting a $2k 5D4 in the 6D2, no one expects that in the slightest. See above for what the industry has been offering as far as specs at that price point. For $2,000 -- we should be getting a 45 or 63 point AF, 2 slots, 6fps, 24-28MP, onchip ADC with around 13 - 13.5 stops of DR, tilt screen and wireless connectivity to name a few.

Remember, the 5D4 offers certain other features, such as higher sync speed, 1/8000 shutter, advanced AF controls, pro build quality, pro handling and more....

But as I said before, it is Canon who is insecure about their lineup. They want to protect the 5D4 and will give us weak specs in the 6D2. Canon isn't about competing with Nikon. As said many times on this forum, Canon competes with itself. They count on people being too in love with L glass or too invested in their system to switch. So to keep sales and pressure to upsell to 5D series, they refuse to offer a killer entry level FF.


When the 6D came out, its specs were not that great even for those days. 11pt AF with 4.5 fps? 20 MP? It was kinda sorta a 5D2 rehash in a way. 

They could have easily introduced it with the 45pt AF, 5fps and dual slot at that time. But they didn't. The tech was there, that AF system was available. Same with the shutter and slots. 

For $2,000 -- giving up the pro build quality, controls and certain other features, how many would spend on a 5D3? I suspect many people had to move up to a 5D because of what I mentioned above.

What can I say? So long as there's enough Canon fan boys, or people seriously invested in their glass, or maybe even some suckers -- Canon will keep abusing. There's no debate the feature set on the other side has been considerably better....


Figure this way - Canon is basically telling the consumer base, if you want pro, it's 5D and up for $3200. Nikon offers it for less than $2,000.


----------



## Orangutan (May 10, 2017)

K said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > 2) *'Death blow to Nikon' is exceptionally premature* -- don't let a chain of bad business decisions in other segments (APS-C compacts, CX sensored mirrorless, etc.) fool you into thinking they've forgotten how an SLR works. An update to all of the D610 / D750 / D810 are in the works and if the D500 is any indication, Nikon is not fooling around with how much tech they'll pack into a new rig. Backlit keys, massive buffers, oodles of AF points -- short of IBIS and strong video AF, it seems like everything will be packed into their future FF SLRs.






> If Canon offered a camera as feature and spec rich as Nikon's entry level FF and given Canon's glass lineup - Canon would murder Nikon sales in that whole segment.


Maybe, but they'd also murder their profit margin. Putting in features costs money, and if they don't raise the price then it cuts profits.



> Your statement about how Nikon packs everything they can in there is true.


And they are struggling financially, presumably due to slim margins. Packing in everything is not a sign of generosity toward customers, but a sign of desperation for market share.




> Right now, the D750 is a 24mp FF with 6fps, a very good 51pt AF system and dual card slots. With tilt screen too. For $1,500 on sale now. Their sensor already has on chip ADC, and produces incredible DR and image quality.


By all accounts, a very nice camera.



> Yet, the specs we're only dreaming and hoping for, from a Canon camera that hasn't even been announced and for around $2,000 are weaker specs than what Nikon has offered now for nearly 2 years...


If they have such superior products, then why can't they take any market share from Canon? I don't mean to disparage their products, which are, as you suggest, very nice. I mean to say that there must be some other factors that keep people buying Canon.



> we should be getting a 45 or 63 point AF, 2 slots, 6fps, 24-28MP, onchip ADC with around 13 - 13.5 stops of DR, tilt screen and wireless connectivity to name a few.


"Should" is irrelevant: that's not how market economics works.



> it is Canon who is insecure about their lineup.


No, their profits are quite secure.




> They want to protect the 5D4


No, they want to protect profits.



> What can I say? So long as there's enough Canon fan boys, or people seriously invested in their glass, or maybe even some suckers -- Canon will keep abusing.


Ad hominem -- not an effective argument. People make their decisions for their own reasons, which may not be apparent to you. BTW, if you own Canon, which of the above categories do you fit in, crass, glass or ass?



> There's no debate the feature set on the other side has been considerably better....


Except corporate profits.



> Figure this way - Canon is basically telling the consumer base, if you want pro, it's 5D and up for $3200. Nikon offers it for less than $2,000.


I seriously hope Nikon can apply some competitive pressure. that would be good for all of us buyers.


----------



## ahsanford (May 10, 2017)

K said:


> Right now, the D750 is a 24mp FF with 6fps, a very good 51pt AF system and dual card slots. With tilt screen too. For $1,500 on sale now. Their sensor already has on chip ADC, and produces incredible DR and image quality.
> 
> This is a camera that has been out a while now.



Fair question in response: Imagine for a minute if the 6D2 was just a D750 with Canon badging, ergonomics, controls and DPAF, and cost $2000.
*
How well would it sell?*

- A


----------



## ahsanford (May 10, 2017)

Orangutan said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > Yet, the specs we're only dreaming and hoping for, from a Canon camera that hasn't even been announced and for around $2,000 are weaker specs than what Nikon has offered now for nearly 2 years...
> ...



I believe we covered this... 

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=32558.msg663369#msg663369

Nikon can't make all the same 'specs in black' comments from that thread. They make solid products, but they lack the scale / service / reliability of Canon. 

(I'd still pick them 10 times out of 10 over Sony.)

- A


----------



## Orangutan (May 10, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > K said:
> ...


It's been covered multiple times, I was just reminding K that specs ain't everything.


----------



## K (May 10, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > Right now, the D750 is a 24mp FF with 6fps, a very good 51pt AF system and dual card slots. With tilt screen too. For $1,500 on sale now. Their sensor already has on chip ADC, and produces incredible DR and image quality.
> ...




I think it would sell incredibly well. Better than the 6D, and better than any Nikon FF. I think it would sell so well, it would indeed cause some people who buy 5D3/4 to instead opt for it. Some people really need that better AF and memory card security. But they don't need an all metal body or some other pro'ish features of the 5D. 

I'm not sure why it is so distasteful to some people to point out Canon's obvious holding back of features at this price point.

Several arguments are made that hold no water whatsoever. Nikon has no problem whatosever offering up these kinds of features in a DSLR. They profit from this. Just because their other products do not (point and shoot), does not mean that they are "desperate" and thus put in more to get more sales and deal with slimmer margins. That is ludicrous and goes against all market principles. 

Market forces dictate that consumers get more and and more features, for a lower and lower price. Now, that can mean smaller profit margin or maybe not - that is on the manufacturer and how they can streamline their costs on their end. 

There's no question that in the entry level FF, Canon is way behind Nikon. It should also be noted that it isn't a completely free market dynamic. There is a protectionist factor here. That is, investing in a system. Canon users are consumers that do not have full freedom in their buying decisions as they are invested in a system.

Since I answered a hypothetical -- Here's a question to answer (not for you A, but for the other guy trying to teach us about markets).


*What if lens mounts were all standardized and Canon and Nikon lenses were fully interchangeable, 100% perfect function. --- How would the 6D sell in relation to the D750?*


I'll answer, 6D would get MURDERED and wouldn't even be on the market. Who the hell would buy a 20mp, 2008 era 11pt AF, 4.5fps, 1 slot camera with mediocre controls, no tilt screen vs 24mp, 2+ stop of DR, 2-slot, 51pt AF that is very good, tilt screen, 6fps ...? No one, that's who! 


I think the above question fully proves my point that Canon's offering is not in line with what the rest of the market is providing. That Canon is resting on its laurels on its great glass line up, and also getting a pass on implementation of features because they are protected by users being invested in their system aka reluctant or unable to choose differently.

The other guy is right about one thing, adding features does cost more money. But as I've argued before on this forum, at the Canon pricing level - these features should be a given. Thus, what is happening is, Canon is omitting them so Canon can save money, but sells the body for the same price. Sure, they increase their profit, but it is diminishing the VALUE for the consumer. And again and again - they get away with this because people are married to the Canon glass and system. 


For whatever reason, Nikon doesn't have this kind of outlook in spite of the fact that their users are also married and tied down to their system and all their glass. They are ok offering up those kind of robust specs at that price point. Giving their users more value. Yes, their users have many thousands of dollars in high end glass invested too. Nikon has the same ball and chain on their users that Canon does. 


Now, I talked a lot about people being married to a system, and it is true. However, what about new comers that are not? Nikon mops the floor with Canon on this. Canon is surrendering this market to Nikon for no reason. Sure my evidence is anecdotal and my perceptions alone - but all the lower level, entry level, part time pros I see are running Nikon significantly more than Canon. When Canon comes up as a topic, I keep hearing the same thing over and over "I wish I had Canon" "BUT" (big but), "expensive" ...

But wait - expensive? The awesome 6D everyone defends here is $1,300. Canon is judged expensive, because they are judging the entry point for a suitable pro camera based on critical features recognized as useful for pro use. Namely, decent AF, decent FPS and DUAL slots so you don't lose your whole shoot and destroy your reputation because a lousy memory card failed. The 6D is completely disregarded as a viable choice. The first Canon in the lineup that meets the kind of specs and requirements Nikon users have, is the 5D.


That entry point is $1300 - $1500 for Nikon. $3,200 for Canon.


Which goes back to the "crippling" accusation. Canon, because of protectionist factors in camera buying of their users, artificially sets their feature set (instead of being influenced by market to dictate features included) in such a way to set the Pro level entry point at the 5D, at $3,200.


Anyhow --

If Canon can put together 45pt af, 5fps and dual slots -- it will still be weaker than a D750 from 2 years ago - BUT at least they will be closer in regards to proper value at that price point. This forum hoping for already obsolete specs for a camera that has not been released yet is PROOF of another sorts of the nature of Canon and their intentional lagging behind in value offering.

Am I crazy to make such an observation? Folks, it is 2017. Why would it be unreasonable for the 6D2 to have:


24-28MP
6 fps
45 - 63pt AF
2 slots
Tilt screen

Not unreasonable at all. Even these specs above just bring Canon on PAR with norm specs in this day and age, rather than push the limits further.

Such specs are not even rumored. Suggesting those specs causes fan boys here to scream bloody murder that "you want a 5D4 for $2000" 

Simply put, Canon users are not even hoping for typical specs of this age. They are cheering for 2014-2015 specs at best LOL. If they are lucky, they'll get them.


----------



## Orangutan (May 10, 2017)

K said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > K said:
> ...



It's not distasteful at all, it's entirely true that they withhold features at lower price points. But I'm under no illusions regarding their reasoning: it's to make more money. They have the dominant market position and are using it skillfully. I wish they would offer a 5D4 at $2k, I might be able to buy it; however, I'm not going to gripe about something that's just not going to happen.


----------



## Mikehit (May 10, 2017)

K - if the 5100 beats any Canon offering for features, if the D750 beats Canon's entry level FF then tell me why they are not mopping up the market?

The answer, I presume is because Canon are doing other things (like post market support) that offset any difference (real or perceived, but it seems not significant) better than Nikon. It is the package that counts.


----------



## K (May 10, 2017)

Orangutan said:


> K said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...




Why do you persist that dual slots, an AF system above 11pts with 5fps is somehow a $2,000 5D4?

Is this the only crutch your position has to stand on?


ahsanford's point is very clear. A Canon branded D750 would destroy a 6D all day long. And probably a 6D2 which hasn't even been announced yet. That is sad when you think about it.


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## LonelyBoy (May 10, 2017)

K said:


> Why do you persist that dual slots, an AF system above 11pts with 5fps is somehow a $2,000 5D4?
> 
> Is this the only crutch your position has to stand on?
> 
> ahsanford's point is very clear. A Canon branded D750 would destroy a 6D all day long. And probably a 6D2 which hasn't even been announced yet. That is sad when you think about it.



Are you also confused about why Honda and Toyota charge more for the same car level with fewer features than Hyundai or GM?


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## Cory (May 10, 2017)

My 6D arrives today.

8)  :-*


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## rfdesigner (May 10, 2017)

Just for reference..

I used my 6D + 100f2.0 to cover my local parkrun a couple of weeks back. Centre point AF only, ~90% hit rate, mostly f2.8 some at f2.0.

https://flic.kr/s/aHskYffEHm

If canon can make 15/19 AF points as good as the current centre point I'd take it.. if they put in the 5DIII AF array (to make the 6D2 a sensible alternative to a second hand 5DIII) then I will in time upgrade, probably once the pound regains the value it's lost post Brexit, so call that 3 years from now when the sky has prooved it's reluctance fall.

I can wait that long.. what I really want right now is a better wide than my 28mm f1.8.


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## Canon6D (May 10, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> The release price of the 5DIV is the same as the 5DIII was. So what was 'expensive' about it?


Not in Europe. Germany for example: 5D3 3.299 Euro vs. 5D4 4.065 Euro -> +23%


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## Luds34 (May 10, 2017)

I'd be shocked if the 6D2 doesn't have a ~45 point AF system. Anything less and it will be obsolete on day one. Just adding that (and the possible dual card slots) does not make it anywhere near equal to a 5D4. The pro build quality, weather sealing, the pro ergonomics alone make one heck of a difference. Once you get to this many focal points, do you know how nice it is to have a joystick (5D feature)?

I'm not big Steve Jobs fan, but one of his quotes about "if you don't cannibalize yourself, your competitors will" is completely true. 

And frankly the 6D2 isn't going to step on the 5D4's toes very much at all. Sure it may steal a few buyers, but I'm guessing that it will bring in far more buyers that would have passed on Canon all together and gone with someone else. I love the Canon system, but let's be real, there are other great products from other companies out there and photographers today have a lot of great choices.


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## Don Haines (May 10, 2017)

I have always enjoyed the cannibalizing sales arguments... The only way to avoid lesser models from cannibalizing sales of higher models is to only have one model, yet it is the lower models that are by far the bulk of Canon sales.


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## dak723 (May 10, 2017)

K said:


> *What if lens mounts were all standardized and Canon and Nikon lenses were fully interchangeable, 100% perfect function. --- How would the 6D sell in relation to the D750?*
> 
> 
> I'll answer, 6D would get MURDERED and wouldn't even be on the market. Who the hell would buy a 20mp, 2008 era 11pt AF, 4.5fps, 1 slot camera with mediocre controls, no tilt screen vs 24mp, 2+ stop of DR, 2-slot, 51pt AF that is very good, tilt screen, 6fps ...? No one, that's who!



I for one would choose the 6D. I understand that most folks on this forum are interested in specs. For me - and I've been shooting for over 35 years, it comes to down to the image and the simplicity of the camera.

I would love a lower MP camera for the better low light quality and smaller file sizes. 20 mp is plenty - far more desirable than 28 or 30 or more.

I shoot center point and refocus for everything but close ups. For that 12-16 focus points is plenty and far simpler to navigate than 45 or more - that many points are purely for spec lovers. 12 or 16 points are probably enough to focus and recompose on any of those points for virtually any type of pic. My opinion, of course.

Rarely shooting action, so 4 or 5 FPS is plenty. 

Wouldn't mind two slots, though, that is the only thing that the 750 has that I wouldn't mind on the 6D.

What does Canon have that would make me choose them over Nikon or Sony (and when I was shopping for FF, I did compare the cameras)? All subjective, but..

Better color.
Better tonal curves giving me more contrast where I think it should be.
Better ergonomics.
Better, more reliable exposure (than the Sony A7 I tried)

In other words, when shopping for a camera, I try them out and LOOK at the Pictures. The Pictures. They, and the ease of use of the camera, are the deciding factors. 

Despite what folks on this forum think, there are still photographers who want simple. I want to see my subject, put camera to my eye, compose the pic through the viewfinder, snap the picture. I don't need to press more buttons and fiddle around with AF points, histograms, zebras, focus peaking, etc....


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## hbr (May 10, 2017)

dak723 said:


> I for one would choose the 6D. I understand that most folks on this forum are interested in specs. For me - and I've been shooting for over 35 years, it comes to down to the image and the simplicity of the camera.
> 
> I would love a lower MP camera for the better low light quality and smaller file sizes. 20 mp is plenty - far more desirable than 28 or 30 or more.
> 
> ...



Agreed.


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## Sporgon (May 10, 2017)

rfdesigner said:


> I can wait that long.. what I really want right now is a better wide than my 28mm f1.8.



28 f/2.8 IS. It's stellar at 2.8


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## hbr (May 10, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> I have always enjoyed the cannibalizing sales arguments... The only way to avoid lesser models from cannibalizing sales of higher models is to only have one model, yet it is the lower models that are by far the bulk of Canon sales.



And from what I have read they are the bulk of Canon's profit.


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## rfdesigner (May 10, 2017)

Sporgon said:


> rfdesigner said:
> 
> 
> > I can wait that long.. what I really want right now is a better wide than my 28mm f1.8.
> ...



but what's it like at f2.0 or wider?


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## scyrene (May 10, 2017)

jayt567 said:


> This would be great news for us Canon shooters who aren't quite in that 5D, 1DX market....hobbyists, enthusiasts who would like the cleaner images of full frame. If the 6D is spec'd around what the 80D, is, that would be more than enough for me. Don't really have any need for video features myself, although I realize a lot of you would like this. I would also like to see a jump to 1/8000 shutter speed as a wildlife photographer but probably wishful thinking there as well. Let's hope for the best middle ground for all of us at a price point that won't make us cringe. Keeping my fingers crossed!



I'm not sure what relevance 1/4000 vs 1/8000 has to wildlife shooting. I don't think I've ever taken a wildlife shot at that speed! Please explain


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## scyrene (May 10, 2017)

K said:


> In this day and age, Canon should give both. Being that the D750 from Nikon is 2-slot, 24mp, tilt screen and 51pt AF all for $1500. But we know that's not how Canon operates.



Unless that Nikon model is eating into their sales, they have no incentive to. Fwiw I think more focus points is a given, dual card slot much less so.



K said:


> If Canon offered a camera as feature and spec rich as Nikon's entry level FF and given Canon's glass lineup - Canon would murder Nikon sales in that whole segment.
> 
> Your statement about how Nikon packs everything they can in there is true.
> 
> ...



I think the smaller companies have to offer more in order to try and tempt people away from the market leader. Perhaps because Canon isn't playing sales catchup, it doesn't feel the need to offer so much?


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## scyrene (May 10, 2017)

wildwalker said:


> I wasn't totally disappointed  Just the pricing was way to high in my opinion, the 5KMk2 was £2000, the Mk3 was £3000 and the Mk4 £3700, a big hike in price, but not so much in features. The biggest gripe was the UHD only being p30, I work in the broadcast industry and this is quite frankly laughable.



Are you taking into consideration inflation and currency fluctuations? Cos if not, that's a really unfair statement.



wildwalker said:


> The biggest gripe was the UHD only being p30, I work in the broadcast industry and this is quite frankly laughable.



The 5D4 is not a broadcast video camera, is it?


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## ahsanford (May 10, 2017)

scyrene said:


> I'm not sure what relevance 1/4000 vs 1/8000 has to wildlife shooting. I don't think I've ever taken a wildlife shot at that speed! Please explain



Yeah -- I was of the mindset that 1/8000 is coveted _more_ by:


Professional event/portraiture folks to not needing to use an ND when shooting fast primes wide open in the sun, which can clip the RHS of the histo at f/1.2, f/1.4, etc. 


Daylight outdoor sports, esp. freezing really fast motion in daylight (e.g. freezing a baseball, freezing a golf swing, etc.)


Outdoor daylight nature work with flying little things you want to try to freeze the wings of while hovering (e.g. a bee, hummingbird, etc.)

If only Shutterdial let us leave the type of photography blank, we could do a blanket 1/8000s shutter speed search and see what others use it for. No such luck.

- A


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## Don Haines (May 11, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not sure what relevance 1/4000 vs 1/8000 has to wildlife shooting. I don't think I've ever taken a wildlife shot at that speed! Please explain
> ...


And children eating candy.... you need 1/8000 to freeze the action....


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## ahsanford (May 11, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> And children eating candy.... you need 1/8000 to freeze the action....



And snowball fights on a sunny day. It's huge for that.

- A


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## Luds34 (May 11, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > And children eating candy.... you need 1/8000 to freeze the action....
> ...



Hah, I get you guys are being tongue and cheek, but honestly the 1 stop difference between 1/4000 and 1/8000 is more of a specsmanship than anything. I'd be lying if I didn't cross my mine when I got the 6D and shot with f/2 and f/1.4 glass. However, my 2 cents says, if it is a serious shoot at all, aka a pro prepared photo shoot, then a CPL or 3 stop ND filter are already in the bag and available. And for those of us casual amateurs who are NOT going to run back in the house for a filter...? Well I've just let the metering blink/yell at me in those rare circumstances and even with the "limited" DR of the 6D I've always been able to recover, bring back the photo to something of my liking.

Yeah, ISO 100 at 1/4000th, I personally can't think of a time where that held me back even with f/1.4 glass.

(Now ask me about the Fuji's base ISO of 200 and I'll say I'm happy they have an electronic shutter as THAT extra stop begins to push it in the extreme bright scenes)


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## Luds34 (May 11, 2017)

Sporgon said:


> rfdesigner said:
> 
> 
> > I can wait that long.. what I really want right now is a better wide than my 28mm f1.8.
> ...



Sometimes I think I must have gotten the only good 28mm f/1.8 ever manufactured.


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## Bungle (May 11, 2017)

Luds34 said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...



Just to weigh in with one very tiny use. Everyone in my area is posting the standard tulip shots right now as they are in bloom. To try and get something somewhat different I've been using a Lensbaby Velvet which is f1.6. The lens blows the hell out of highlights so I try to ETTR as best I can. I just picked up a 3stop ND because even 1/8000 on the 5D3 (6D is on the road at the moment) is still slightly over exposed when the sun is out. If I stop down, the lens loses it's "velvety" effect.


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## Luds34 (May 11, 2017)

Bungle said:


> Luds34 said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...



Absolutely fair enough. You are a use case. 

Of course in fairness you said you have to do this with a 5D and it's 1/8000th shutter so it doesn't quite highlight a use case where the 1 stop between the 6D and 5D are making or breaking your workflow as they both "fail" in your use case.


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## SecureGSM (May 11, 2017)

I would imaging that the following use case necessitates use of faster than 1/4000 shutter speed for sport photographers (Baseball, Tennis, Cricket, boxing, ice hockey, etc) . the following is a direct quote from Syl Arena's Speedliter's Handbook, 1st Edition (Text and images are copyright of Syl Arena). Smashing Pumpkins:

"...Freezing Supersonic Seeds Back in the days when I had my first SLR (hint: Nixon had just resigned), the top shutter speed on most cameras was 1⁄500″. In comparison, some 35+ years later, the shutter speeds on DSLRs seem supersonic. You’d think that anything north of 1⁄2000″ would be fast enough to freeze pumpkin shrapnel. Turns out that pumpkin seeds are supersonic, too. I shot at a variety of speeds—all in full-stop increments—from 1⁄400″ on (1⁄800″, 1⁄1600″,...). When I hit 1⁄3200″, and based on a close look at the camera’s LCD, I was sure we had stopped space and time. Back in the studio, with the benefit of Lightroom and a large monitor, I discovered
otherwise. Turns out that the magic didn’t happen until 1⁄6400″..."

At 1⁄3200″ (first image), the seeds still show a bit of motion blur. At 1⁄6400″ (second image) the seeds finally look sharp.


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## LonelyBoy (May 11, 2017)

wildwalker said:


> The biggest gripe was the UHD only being p30, I work in the broadcast industry and this is quite frankly laughable.



The 5D4 is not a broadcast video camera, is it?
[/quote]

And this is why I get annoyed when the video freaks whine for more and more features and claim it doesn't add cost - when video is "just thrown in" the temper tantrums start that it doesn't support enough modes/ resolution/ recording time/ formats/ bit-rate/ ports. Guess what? All those things cost money. I'd sooner have the videographers crying themselves to sleep at night than pay for what they want. Go buy a video camera.


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## scyrene (May 11, 2017)

Luds34 said:


> Bungle said:
> 
> 
> > Luds34 said:
> ...



Agreed, there are cases where it is relevant, but not wildlife.

Anecdotally, the only time I really felt I needed 1/8000 (or even faster!) was using the 85L wide open in bright sunshine (even using ISO 50!), especially for flowers where intense colours can blow highlights easily.


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## K (May 11, 2017)

(satire)

I'm a simple photographer. I just need a camera that does what I need and nothing else.

I have $2,000 burning a hole in my pocket. I love Canon. Given my basic needs, I'm ok with spending that much on 2008 era features and technology and see no problem with the value compared to other brands.

I hope Canon can design, manufacture and sell me a camera for $2,000 with 1 focus point only, as that is all I need and use. 

I never had a card fail, so I will conclude it is impossible; thus I'm happy with one slot. And even if it were possible, I don't value the photos I take enough to protect them from loss. And I'll assume my occasional clients won't care either.

I work only with stills and as such 1fps is plenty. 

I hope the new 6D2 doesn't have too many bells and whistles to confuse me or get in the way of my critical workflow and handling.

I really like the 6D because it is sooo small and tiny and compact I use it for travel. I pack this lightweight, compact DSLR along with my 100-400, 16-35 2.8 and a 50 1.2 for low light. The convenience is not to be overlooked! FF awesomeness with significant weight and space savings!

Canon's color science and technology is mind blowing. I may have spent $2,000 on a body, and $5,000+ on glass but I place no value in post processing and corrections, let alone calibration. I trust what comes right out of camera. Eat it Nikon with your inferior skin tones!

I wish Canon would just make me a 20D with a 16MP FF sensor and 16 stops of DR and sell it to me for $2,200. That would be the best.

Canon & Me, BFF XOXOXOXO


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## Sporgon (May 11, 2017)

Luds34 said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > rfdesigner said:
> ...



I agree the 1.8/28 is razor in the middle at f/2.8, but it has a real weak zone around what would be the sides of the crop zone. If you've got one that doesn't do that you've done well !


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## dak723 (May 11, 2017)

K said:


> (satire)
> 
> I'm a simple photographer. I just need a camera that does what I need and nothing else.
> 
> ...



(Satire)

I am a complex photographer and thus need to show my friends how complex I am by buying a camera with the best specs. I don't need any of the advanced features, but I love having them. Bragging rights are important.

I have no money to spend, but that Sony A9 looks so sweet I will have to get it even though my current camera does a fine job and the technology barely changes from one (or more) generation to the next.

My next camera needs to have at least 400 focus points because...uh...well...more is better in everything, right?

I only do stills and no action photography, but I still demand that Canon gives me 12 fps, because...uh...well...

I demand histograms, zebras, focus peaking, and a huge electronc level (like Sony) so that my viewfinder is so cluttered I can no longer compose my picture. But who cares about the picture when I can look at all those cool displays?

I strongly prefer the look and color of Canon, but I would rather have a Nikon or Sony so that I can spend more time post processing my pics so they end up looking like Canon's pics.

I love the specs from Sony and Nikon. I wish Canon would make a camera just like the Nikon D750. I have - for years now - been hoping that Canon will make a camera just like the Nikon D750. Oh...What's that you say?...Why don't I buy a Nikon D750?............

Oh, never thought of that!


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## hpc1979 (May 11, 2017)

Giving the Questimated specs, how do you guys think the 6D Mark II will compare to the 5D Mark III. Will it be a superior camera? I'm looking into buying my first Full Frame camera, so is the 6D Mark II a camera I should wait for, or is the 5D Mark III still going to be a superior camera no matter what? Thoughts?


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## ahsanford (May 11, 2017)

hpc1979 said:


> Giving the Questimated specs, how do you guys think the 6D Mark II will compare to the 5D Mark III. Will it be a superior camera? I'm looking into buying my first Full Frame camera, so is the 6D Mark II a camera I should wait for, or is the 5D Mark III still going to be a superior camera no matter what? Thoughts?



Where the 6D2 will be better than the 5D3:


*Sensor should be a solid generation better.* By far, this is the biggest reason.
Tilty-flippy touchscreen (if you like those)
Wifi+GPS
Smaller and lighter -- better for general 'lugging it around' considerations, hiking, long days of shooting, etc.
Better AF in LiveView thanks to DPAF
Possibly it will keep interchangeable focusing screens for manual focus lens use

Where the 5D3 will (probably*) still be better than the 6D2:


1/8000 shutter*
Bigger and heavier = better handling for larger glass
Dual slot*
Better AF through the viewfinder (for the most part), more AF tune-ability in menus, dedicated AF joystick
Far better build quality
More buttons that let you drive things without digging into menus (DOF preview button, M-Fn up top, etc.)*
Slightly faster flash sync speed*

*I say probably because we're not sure of the 6D2 specs yet. It may get some of the more 'pro' 5D level goodies added to it.

But don't let the relatively equal number of bullet points mislead you. *The sensor + tilty flippy are a really big leg up for the 6D2.*

I'm sure I missed something, but this forum -- as always -- will correct me on that. 

- A


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## Don Haines (May 11, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> hpc1979 said:
> 
> 
> > Giving the Questimated specs, how do you guys think the 6D Mark II will compare to the 5D Mark III. Will it be a superior camera? I'm looking into buying my first Full Frame camera, so is the 6D Mark II a camera I should wait for, or is the 5D Mark III still going to be a superior camera no matter what? Thoughts?
> ...


Cost!

If you can afford the 6D2 and can't afford the 5D4, it really does not matter what features the 5D4 has.....


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## ahsanford (May 12, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > hpc1979 said:
> ...



Careful reading skills!

If you can't read what I've written, your rebuttal becomes a little silly. ;D

- A


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## Don Haines (May 12, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > ahsanford said:
> ...


reading from a phone screen..... oops!

And it wasn't meant as a rebuttal, I agree with all your points and was just adding another, or so I thought....


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## Bungle (May 12, 2017)

Luds34 said:


> Bungle said:
> 
> 
> > Luds34 said:
> ...


EXACTLY. I was going to write "so is that one extra stop going to matter at that point anyway? Just get a 3stop ND.


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## pokerz (May 12, 2017)

6dII= 6d with higher pixel count and burst rate I bet or it will affect 5d4 and 5d3's sales volumn, Canon is always smart

And 1080 Line skipping movie format is fine for Canon users.


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## FramerMCB (May 12, 2017)

Chisox2335 said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > aceflibble said:
> ...



Maybe just rent a 5D Mk IV for your 2 different trips...


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## FramerMCB (May 12, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> hpc1979 said:
> 
> 
> > Giving the Questimated specs, how do you guys think the 6D Mark II will compare to the 5D Mark III. Will it be a superior camera? I'm looking into buying my first Full Frame camera, so is the 6D Mark II a camera I should wait for, or is the 5D Mark III still going to be a superior camera no matter what? Thoughts?
> ...



Well, I for one am hoping it specs out well vs. the Pentax K-1 (only with a little less weight, and of course, it will already have that beautiful Canon color/rendering). The "tilt" screen on the K-1 also looks rather interesting to me, but I wonder how well it will stand the test of time/use...


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## ahsanford (May 12, 2017)

FramerMCB said:


> Well, I for one am hoping it specs out well vs. the Pentax K-1 (only with a little less weight, and of course, it will already have that beautiful Canon color/rendering). The "tilt" screen on the K-1 also looks rather interesting to me, but I wonder how well it will stand the test of time/use...



Pentax K-1:

36 MP
IBIS
Completely weather sealed
No AA filter
Dual Slot
Astro-tracing
Compatibility with APS-C glass

_Yeeeeeah..._ That's not going to happen. 

Canon has two overarching goals for the 6D2...


Develop a reliable $2k price point FF rig


Allow Canon to exit the 5D3

...and they don't need a K-1 level spec sheet to do that.

- A


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## CanonCams (May 14, 2017)

Not sure if this means anything in the context of the MK II, but..

http://www.canonpricewatch.com/

MK IV is now under 3k.


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## roast_pigeon (May 15, 2017)

I would be  if 6D-II had everything 80D has plus: 1. full-frame-28/30 megapixels, 2. good-codec 4K video, 3. Bluetooth connectivity. Bonus will be dual card slots and extra battery life.


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## BillB (May 18, 2017)

roast_pigeon said:


> I would be  if 6D-II had everything 80D has plus: 1. full-frame-28/30 megapixels, 2. good-codec 4K video, 3. Bluetooth connectivity. Bonus will be dual card slots and extra battery life.
> [/quote
> 
> Canon may not want the 6DII to cannibalize the 5DIV, but they also want to convince a bunch of 5DII and 6D owners that the 6DII is too good to pass up, and maybe even some 5DIII owners as well. I'm hoping that Canon is betting on the too good to pass up strategy.


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## lv (May 18, 2017)

ahsanford said:


> hpc1979 said:
> 
> 
> > Giving the Questimated specs, how do you guys think the 6D Mark II will compare to the 5D Mark III. Will it be a superior camera? I'm looking into buying my first Full Frame camera, so is the 6D Mark II a camera I should wait for, or is the 5D Mark III still going to be a superior camera no matter what? Thoughts?
> ...



I'll correct* - 6D does have a DOF preview/flash modeling light button.

*Unless you know that Canon will remove it on the 6D mkII


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## roast_pigeon (May 24, 2017)

lv said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > hpc1979 said:
> ...




Just give me a Full Frame version of 80D plus great 4K video codec, please!


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