# From 7D (Mark I) to 80D - Is it worth it, and what will I be missing?



## Grummbeerbauer (Jul 13, 2016)

Hi everbody,

I could get a new 80D for 950€ (which is ridiculously expensive compared to some deals the US guys seem to get on a regular basis, but still ~100€ cheaper than regular for us EU guys and therefore quite a steal).
I have a 6,5 years old classic 7D, which I still like and which still works fine. At the same time, it has some deficits, in particular AF tracking was never as good as I had hoped, per pixel sharpness also left a bit to be desired, and high ISO is .
Considering that the 80D has overtaken 7D in many departments, in particular AF, video features and dynamic range, I am seriously tempted. At the same time, I am not sure if I will actually gain a lot in the IQ department... of course there are six more megapixels to be had, but when looking, e.g., at DPReview's test scene

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=canon_eos80d&attr13_1=canon_eos7d&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr16_0=100&attr16_1=100&normalization=full&widget=340&x=-0.22805507745266781&y=-0.6170194532522065

I am not sure if I am actually getting that big an improvement here of I am not just magnifying the lens flaws even more or run into the AA filter limiting resolution.


Further, I am wondering what I might miss in the 80D compared to the 7D(I).

I think I will definitely miss the thumb stick for AF point selection... the four way controller of the 70D (which should be roughly the same as that of the 80D, right?) which I briefly played around with is not located very conveniently and feels a bit mushy. I also use "spot AF" a lot on the 7D, which isn't available on the 80D if I am not mistaken. And of course there is a noticable(?) drop in build quality from 7D to xxD series, but how much this will bother me, I am not sure.
Anything else that would spring to mind?

Any experience from other people that did the same up(?)grade?

Regards

Grummbeerbauer
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## davidmurray (Jul 13, 2016)

Grummbeerbauer said:


> Hi everbody,
> 
> I could get a new 80D for 950€ (which is ridiculously expensive compared to some deals the US guys seem to get on a regular basis, but still ~100€ cheaper than regular for us EU guys and therefore quite a steal).
> I have a 6,5 years old classic 7D, which I still like and which still works fine. At the same time, it has some deficits, in particular AF tracking was never as good as I had hoped, per pixel sharpness also left a bit to be desired, and high ISO is .
> ...



I believe the pertinent words are: "which I still like and which still works fine.".

If it was fine 1 month after buying it, it will still be fine today unless a fault has developed, which sounds like hasn't happened.

Do you have any requirements that cannot be met by your existing equipment?


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## pwp (Jul 13, 2016)

The 7D is still a remarkably valid and contemporary feeling camera. And it sounds like you're happy with it.

Sure the newer camera will do some things differently, but it's a kind of oblique upgrade path. Check to see if your 80D considerations just a bit of GAS?

-pw


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## neuroanatomist (Jul 13, 2016)

Grummbeerbauer said:


> I think I will definitely miss the thumb stick for AF point selection... the four way controller of the 70D (which should be roughly the same as that of the 80D, right?) which I briefly played around with is not located very conveniently and feels a bit mushy. I also use "spot AF" a lot on the 7D, which isn't available on the 80D if I am not mistaken. And of course there is a noticable(?) drop in build quality from 7D to xxD series, but how much this will bother me, I am not sure.
> Anything else that would spring to mind?



As you describe it, the 80D doesn't seem like much of an upgrade. You gain a few things, lose a few things...more like a crossgrade. You're also dropping from 8 fps to 7 fps.

The 7DII would be an upgrade. I'd go that route or stick with what you have, for now.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Jul 13, 2016)

In the item "image quality" alone, even the modest Rebel T5 is better than the 7D. If you see the 7D and 80D images in the same size, the superiority of 80D will be evident.

Obviously the natural successor to his case is the 7D Mark II, but 80D will be an upgrade in almost all respects.

As others have said, ergonomics and AF spot adjustments will be absent. I heard some reports of people who have used them, and almost all were happily surprised with the 80D.


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## dpc (Jul 13, 2016)

I've thought along the same lines. Should I get a 7DMII or an 80D to replace my 7D? Or a 5DMIII to replace my MII? Or a Fujifilm X-T2 to replace my X-T10? Every time a new camera is announced by just about any manufacturer I get excited and think, "Maybe I should get rid of my cameras and go for this new stuff. There's so much more it can do than my old equipment." I soon realize that my old cameras, although lacking features and not having sensors that are as robust in some respects, take good pictures with which I am generally happy. The new cameras may help me take better pictures but, on reflection, I'm not convinced any incremental improvement is really worth the money. I was on the verge of trading my 7D in for a 7DMII in March and, at the last moment, bought a Sigma 150-600 Contemporary instead. It was a far better move. Unless you're really convinced upgrading your camera body is needed, I'd spend what cash you have for photography equipment on good lenses with focal lengths you know you would really use. How do you decide when it's time for a new camera? When the old one doesn't produce the results you want and you know it's not because of your technique. Or unless money isn't a consideration for you, in which case I doubt you'd be asking the question in the first place. Maybe it'd be wise to rent a 7DMII and an 80D and see how the results compare with what you have now. 

Having said all that, I may just spring for a new camera one of these days. Sometimes we just want new stuff. Maybe I will. Maybe I won't.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Jul 13, 2016)

There are some factors that should be weighed:

It has many CF cards that would be useless in 80D?
You usually do video or photos in Live View?
Would you like to use articulated LCD and headset?
You want a camera a bit smaller and lighter?
You want the anti-flicker for fluorescent lighting?
Would you like to quieter shutter?
You need to work AF on F5.6 lens + 1.4x teleconverter?
You want to raise the shadows at ISO100, without a lot of noise?


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## j-nord (Jul 13, 2016)

Maybe I missed it but what does the OP shoot? This is a pretty important consideration. 80D might provide clear pros/cons for the OP, we don't know.


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## Grummbeerbauer (Jul 15, 2016)

First, thanks to all people who contributed their opinion.



pwp said:


> The 7D is still a remarkably valid and contemporary feeling camera. And it sounds like you're happy with it.


Mostly happy, yes. AF tracking doesn't really work for me - but that could be me. And I often tend to push shadows in post, having a bit less shadow noise here would be welcome. 




pwp said:


> Sure the newer camera will do some things differently, but it's a kind of oblique upgrade path. Check to see if your 80D considerations just a bit of GAS?



I guess a combination of a recently rather slumbering GAS, that was freshly woken when I ran across that deal.


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## Grummbeerbauer (Jul 15, 2016)

dilbert said:


> The joystick at the back going missing is not good.



Yes, that is one of the most relevant gripes I have with the 80D. But I guess only trying it out will help here.



dilbert said:


> Will "single point AF" work for you instead of "spot AF"? (I suggest going to a store and trying it out.)



Most stores here only stock xxxD level cameras, unfortunately.




dilbert said:


> You won't notice the difference in build quality (if there is one.)



Maybe "build quality" was not the proper term... I am not saying that the 80D is in general assembled more shoddily. But AFAIK, the 80D has more (if not all) parts of the body built from plastics instead of the magnesium alloy of the 7D, giving it a less tank-like feel.


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## Grummbeerbauer (Jul 15, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> As you describe it, the 80D doesn't seem like much of an upgrade. You gain a few things, lose a few things...more like a crossgrade. You're also dropping from 8 fps to 7 fps.
> 
> The 7DII would be an upgrade. I'd go that route or stick with what you have, for now.



I rarely use burst shooting intensively... the few times I visit, e.g., a bird of prey show, I usually discard >90% of the shots due to AF misses - I think its not actually that bad, but it feels like 90% because it seems that all the shots with "good" composition and bird posture are those where the AF is way off. 
I am probably doing something wrong here, but what more than pointing at the bird and tracking it in the viewfinder should be necessary?
In any case - the (hopefully) more advanced AF system in the 80D might help me a lot more than that 1 fps more.

One further reason I preferred the 80D over the 7DII (aside from the obvious - price, the 7DII is still >1250€ here) is the new sensor tech in the 80D. Since noise in general, but in particular shadow noise is one of my main issues with the 7DI, and since I actually do not see much of an improvement here from 7D -> 7DII, I think this might be something I like. But now that I went over that comparison again and also checked D7200 or a6300... well...


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## Grummbeerbauer (Jul 15, 2016)

dpc said:


> I soon realize that my old cameras, although lacking features and not having sensors that are as robust in some respects, take good pictures with which I am generally happy. The new cameras may help me take better pictures but, on reflection, I'm not convinced any incremental improvement is really worth the money. I was on the verge of trading my 7D in for a 7DMII in March and, at the last moment, bought a Sigma 150-600 Contemporary instead. It was a far better move. Unless you're really convinced upgrading your camera body is needed, I'd spend what cash you have for photography equipment on good lenses with focal lengths you know you would really use.



I am currently actually also looking for a long tele zoom lens, this is the FL I am missing most sorely. I tried the 150-600C, but wasn't too happy with sharpness - are you primarily using it on FF or APS-C? From all that is written, the three 150-600 are way better on FF at least in the center due to the larger pixels.
I also played around with the 100-400II, but at least the copy I had had some nasty purple fringing on one side of the frame and sharpness was actually not much improved over the 150-600C.

Maybe I should forget about the 80D and wait for this rumor

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=29454.0

to materialize. 




dpc said:


> Having said all that, I may just spring for a new camera one of these days. Sometimes we just want new stuff. Maybe I will. Maybe I won't.



Having a new toy was definitely part of my considerations...


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## Grummbeerbauer (Jul 15, 2016)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> There are some factors that should be weighed:
> 
> It has many CF cards that would be useless in 80D?
> You usually do video or photos in Live View?
> ...



That's a good list of decision points, thanks. 

1) I have a mere two CF cards, one 16, one 32 GB. And I never felt I needed more. Since a SanDisk Ultra 64GB SDXC is only ~20€, this aspect is not that relevant for me.
2) I don't do video - but at least one reason is that I suck at MF and the 7D's LV AF sucks in general, even more so for video.
3) The articulated LCD (plus the apparently great LV AF, thanks to dual-pixel) is actually one of the most interesting things for me. I like doing macro work, where both of these should come in very handy. Not sure if the AF would be good enough for BIF (Bees in flight ) though...
4) nah, size wise the 7D is fine... where I cannot take the 7D, I can also not bring the 80D
5) I shot handball in a gym once - really, that's all the indoor sports shooting I ever did. And the issues I had was again much more the AF hit rate than inconsistent lighting. I used the 85 1.8 most of the time, which gave the best results, but still only a humble quota of keepers. So it is not a relevant feature for me. 
6) A more quiet shutter sound would have clearly been useful from time to time... is the 80D much quieter than the 7D?
7) The only lense I have I use with a 1.4 TC (Kenko) is the 70-200f4 IS, and even that only rarely, because I am not too happy with the results (bokeh gets horrible). I might give this a try if I end up buying a 100-400II at some point in time, though.
8) Yes, definitively... when processing images, I rarely do _not _use the shadow slider in LR.


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## Grummbeerbauer (Jul 15, 2016)

j-nord said:


> Maybe I missed it but what does the OP shoot? This is a pretty important consideration. 80D might provide clear pros/cons for the OP, we don't know.



You are right, I should have mentioned that.
Aside from the occasional family events, vacation pictures, zoo visit or bird of pray show, I think actually enjoy macro work the most.
Basically no sports, no running animals, no fast and erratically moving toddlers (yet ).

Considering my allergy to noise, it seems like FF would be something for me, so I actually also consider waiting for the 6DII - if they up the AF system to 80D levels (well, even 750D/7D levels would probably be an improvement) that could be the camera for me. If they throw in the 80Ds swivel screen that would sweeten the deal even more.
The only thing that would keep me from moving to FF (aside from price) is that I would have to part with the 18-35A and would need to get a FF equivalent for the 10-20.


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## Maximilian (Jul 15, 2016)

Hi Grummbeerbauer!

Can't remember if you're from Germany or Austria. 

I just wanted to add, that if and whatever you decide buy there are still some promotions running at Canon Germany.
The "Sommer-Promotion" does not include the 80D but the "EOS plus X" has it included.

Check it here:
http://www.canon.de/for_home/promotions/


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## Grummbeerbauer (Jul 15, 2016)

Maximilian said:


> Hi Grummbeerbauer!
> 
> Can't remember if you're from Germany or Austria.
> 
> ...



Thank you very much for pointing that out! 

I indeed had checked the Canon "Promotions" page, but somehow missed that "EOS plus X" thing... maybe because I skimmed over it and read "Cinema EOS".
250€ rebate on the 100-400II sounds really interesting... ~1600€ instead of ~1850€, but with that 80D, that would mean shelling out 2550€ out for camera stuff... not sure if I can justify that to myself. :


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## Maximilian (Jul 15, 2016)

Grummbeerbauer said:


> ... that would mean shelling out 2550€ out for camera stuff... not sure if I can justify that to myself. :


Tough decissions 
Depends on real needs (no GAS!) and on money saved! 
Good thing on "EOS plus X" is that'll last until the end of the year ==> more time for saving


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## dpc (Jul 15, 2016)

Grummbeerbauer said:


> dpc said:
> 
> 
> > I soon realize that my old cameras, although lacking features and not having sensors that are as robust in some respects, take good pictures with which I am generally happy. The new cameras may help me take better pictures but, on reflection, I'm not convinced any incremental improvement is really worth the money. I was on the verge of trading my 7D in for a 7DMII in March and, at the last moment, bought a Sigma 150-600 Contemporary instead. It was a far better move. Unless you're really convinced upgrading your camera body is needed, I'd spend what cash you have for photography equipment on good lenses with focal lengths you know you would really use.
> ...



Sorry for not responding earlier. I've used the 150-600 Sigma Contemporary on my 7D. I also have a 5DMII. I don't believe I've used it with that yet. I find the sharpness very good even at 600mm. What is acceptable sharpness is a matter of personal taste. Having said that I am more than happy with it. It may be that I've just got a very good copy. I also have a 300mm f/4L which I used with a 1.4 III teleconverter before I got the 150-600. An excellent lens but a bit short since I like to shoot BIF. I also have the Canon 70-300L, another excellent lens but short for some of the pictures I like to take. I'm attaching some pictures taken with the Sigma 150-600mm Contemporary. 


First picture: 7D, 600mm, 1/800, f/7.1, handheld
Second Picture: 7D, 562mm, 1/320, f/6.3, handheld


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## dpc (Jul 15, 2016)

A couple more:

1. 7D, 600mm, f/6.3, 1/160, handheld
2. 7D, 600mm, f/6.3, 1/125, handheld


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## Grummbeerbauer (Jul 17, 2016)

dpc said:


> Sorry for not responding earlier. I've used the 150-600 Sigma Contemporary on my 7D. I also have a 5DMII. I don't believe I've used it with that yet. I find the sharpness very good even at 600mm. What is acceptable sharpness is a matter of personal taste. Having said that I am more than happy with it. It may be that I've just got a very good copy. I also have a 300mm f/4L which I used with a 1.4 III teleconverter before I got the 150-600. An excellent lens but a bit short since I like to shoot BIF. I also have the Canon 70-300L, another excellent lens but short for some of the pictures I like to take. I'm attaching some pictures taken with the Sigma 150-600mm Contemporary.



The shots are very nice (like the posture of that bird and the near macro flower shot the most ), but they show the same lack of critical sharpness that made me not go with the 150-600C. But as you said, sharpness is a subjective thing and I am sure that for normal sized prints (I rarely print larger than A3 anyway), the "C" is more than adequate.
But after now learning that I could get the 100-400LII for ~1600€ (okay, plus 950€ for the 80D... ), I am severely tempted.
What also makes we prefer the 100-400LII route is that it is still portable enough to be carried along for a vacation - the 150-600s (any of them, the "S" of course the most) are just too big and too heavy for that. 
One body, 17-55 (or 18-35 or 24-105), 10-20 and 100-400 would still fit into the average hand luggage allowance and should give me a lot of flexibility (currently I would bring the 70-200L 4 IS as a tele option).


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## AJ (Jul 19, 2016)

I "upgraded" from a 7D to a 760D, after I accidentally spilled some water on my supposedly splash-proof 7D, which fried it.

The 760D produces noticeably cleaner images. 100 iso is definitely less noisy, as are higher iso settings. I suspect the 80D will be even better yet. I also think the 760D produces better shadow detail.

The AF of the 760D works great in good light, but the 7D did better in low light. The 80D has much better AF than the 760D, of course, so I think you'll be fine.

I do a lot of hiking and travel (just got back from a 10-week trip) so I welcome the lower weight of the 760D.

I really like the flip screen for candid photography. I hang the camera around my neck so the body is at my belly, I flip the screen up, turn on live view, then tap the screen where I want focus. It then focuses and exposes. Great feature.


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## sunnyVan (Jul 19, 2016)

The most noticeable difference would be build quality. 80D definitely feels somewhat plasticky compared to my 5Dmk3. Other than build quality I don't think 80D is in any way inferior. Whether or not 80D is a reasonable upgrade depends on what features you're looking for. I absolutely love the video quality of my 80D. Changing focus point using touch screen is so easy, so intuitive. I don't miss the joystick all that much. Do you care about wifi, build-in intervalometer, articulating screen, higher DR, and so forth? If you want a general purpose camera, you'll love 80D. 

If your main interest is wildlife and sports, 7Dmk2 is the camera for you. Or have you considered getting 5dmk3 instead? 




Grummbeerbauer said:


> Hi everbody,
> 
> I could get a new 80D for 950€ (which is ridiculously expensive compared to some deals the US guys seem to get on a regular basis, but still ~100€ cheaper than regular for us EU guys and therefore quite a steal).
> I have a 6,5 years old classic 7D, which I still like and which still works fine. At the same time, it has some deficits, in particular AF tracking was never as good as I had hoped, per pixel sharpness also left a bit to be desired, and high ISO is .
> ...


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## Grummbeerbauer (Jul 20, 2016)

AJ said:


> I "upgraded" from a 7D to a 760D, after I accidentally spilled some water on my supposedly splash-proof 7D, which fried it.
> 
> The 760D produces noticeably cleaner images. 100 iso is definitely less noisy, as are higher iso settings. I suspect the 80D will be even better yet. I also think the 760D produces better shadow detail.
> 
> ...



I was sure hoping for better noise performance, and for shadow lifting, this seems to hold true. But overall high ISO noise does not seem much improved (if at all) when I look at the DPReview comparison tool. But maybe this is more obvious in real-world shooting? Considering how the 7D is noisy even at ISO 100 (e.g., blue skies), things can only get better here.


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## Grummbeerbauer (Jul 20, 2016)

Meanwhile I borrowed a friend's 80D and played around a bit with it. I mainly used my 18-35A and 100L.

*Build quality and ergonomics*
I can't say that I noticed much of a weight difference with an attached lens, but the grip, being smaller, feels less comfortable to hold for me. The "inferior" body material (plastic vs. magnesium alloy) is of course visible, but I barely notice that while shooting, so I guess I could live with that. The viewfinder is a bit smaller, but otherwise not too different from the one of the 7D, so it is fine for me (I was never into the hype of the "large viewfinders are IT"... since I wear glasses, it is sometimes difficult to see the full viewfinder on the 7D).
The thumb button is indeed sorely missed... the "joypad-style" four-way controller is not located very conveniently and is also feeling much more flimsy compared to the thumb stick of the 7D. Further, the thumb wheel's usability is also hindered by the four way controller, as it protrudes from it... so I cannot really spin the wheel with a flat thumb anymore, but have to use the thumb's tip - this feels awkward and is also much slower when going through a larger number of images. In addition, my thumb then often bumps into the slightly protruding edge of the flip screen - and I do have rather lean fingers.

*AF*
Other things I noticed: having that many AF points surely is nice, but in the short amount of time, I already noticed myself using center point + focus & recompose at times because I just couldn't deal with the four-way controller.
I also did a lot of macro shooting. I had high hopes with the touch screen and live view AF for this style of shooting, but while it works fine and is very responsive for regular motives, it didn't seem to work all to well for macro for me... I also found it much more difficult to judge where I am aiming at when the lens was strongly defocused. Through-the-viewfinder macro shooting worked fine... I would say even slightly better than with the 7D, overall keeper rate seems to be a bit higher.
Regarding phase-detect AF through the viewfinder: it mostly worked fine, but didn't "wow" me. When shooting indoors in bad light, it reacted rather sluggish at times, I had hoped better performance, because IIRC the nominal brightness range for the AF is better than that of the 7D. I have yet to compare this against the 7D directly, though.

*Responsiveness*
I did my shooting using a rather old SDHC card with 8GB (from my 450D ) since I didn't have any other compatible card, so the card is probably very slow by today's standards. In particular when I fired off bursts (but still far from "buffer full"), after stopping, sometimes the camera would show a black screen with some message (along the lines of "busy") while it was writing to card, and this often took very long. A faster card will probably reduce the write times considerably, but *why* does it even *block at all*? Can't it just write the stuff to card in the background while allowing me to work normally (e.g., use the menu, switch to live view etc.)? But this didn't happen all the time - maybe I did something that triggers this behavior (pressing the "play" button, maybe?). In any case, I never seemed to have noticed something similar with the 7D.

*Video*
I am not that much into video work, but from the one or two short clips I made, I can only say that it is a night & day difference to the 7D. Videos, even though having the same nominal resolution, are just so much sharper! When looking at it full screen on a FHD screen, even individual frames look sharp. That combined with the very nice touch focus actually seem to finally make DSLR video usable for me (because I suck at MF and cannot afford hiring a focus puller to do my focusing ). Also the MP4 codec seems to be much more space efficient than the MJPEG(?)-based MOVs produced by the 7D. 
The actual value of the whole video side of the 80D for myself is still questionable... maybe I discover the video guy in me, maybe I will continue ignoring it.

One main issue I had with my time with the 80D - and this is not related to the camera - is that my ancient Lightroom 4.4 doesn't support it, so I had to use DPP. While DPP seems to be getting better, it still feels much slower than Lightroom (and it also does not seem to have a feature to pre-calculate 100% previews, which speeds things up a lot for initial image selection in LR). Of course I therefore cannot really compare the results (in particular regarding noise and shadow-pushability) against my years of working with 7D RAWs in LR. 
A full version of LR 6 is still >100€ here and I cannot seem to find an upgrade license anywhere, so I would have to factor that into the total cost of the 80D. And then, LR 7 is probably just around the corner... if Adobe will still make it available as purchasable software and will not fully switch to their "cloud" model here (if they do, they will have lost me as a customer, since for my needs, I will not pay ~10€ a month to replace the software I bought for ~100€ and had been using for several years, easily quadrupling the cost).





sunnyVan said:


> The most noticeable difference would be build quality. 80D definitely feels somewhat plasticky compared to my 5Dmk3. Other than build quality I don't think 80D is in any way inferior. Whether or not 80D is a reasonable upgrade depends on what features you're looking for. I absolutely love the video quality of my 80D.



I can only chime in on your statement about video quality - now if it had 4K to future-proof it... 



sunnyVan said:


> Changing focus point using touch screen is so easy, so intuitive. I don't miss the joystick all that much. Do you care about wifi, build-in intervalometer, articulating screen, higher DR, and so forth? If you want a general purpose camera, you'll love 80D.



I briefly played around with the wifi functionality (remote control from PC). I am not sure if I fully grasp the possibilities here, but I don't think I will make much use of it (if I were a studio shooter, the direct file transfer to a tethered laptop would certainly be interesting). Maybe smartphone connectivity will be more useful, I have yet to try this.
The intervalometer is certainly something I will try out eventually, but I could also well live without it.
The improved DR everyone is raving about (but which I cannot yet judge, due to the LR "issue" I mentioned above) will definitely be something I should like, since I tend to push shadows in >50% of my images.



sunnyVan said:


> If your main interest is wildlife and sports, 7Dmk2 is the camera for you. Or have you considered getting 5dmk3 instead?



The 7DII is still >1300€ here... a tad too much for my taste. On the other hand, there is still a "student cashback" promotion running here, which would allow me to save 150€ for the 7DII. But if I made use of that cashback option, then I think the camera would no be allowed to also participate in the 250€ cashback for the 100-400... 
And in the end, when the 7DII came out I decided that it would gain me too little in image quality improvement over my 7D (all this based of course on internet resources, in particular the DPReview comparison tool). I think the 80D should have better image quality for my purposes, especially regarding DR. On the other hand, when comparing 80D and 7DII at higher ISO via the DPR tool

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/image-comparison/fullscreen?attr18=daylight&attr13_0=canon_eos80d&attr13_1=canon_eos7dii&attr15_0=raw&attr15_1=raw&attr16_0=3200&attr16_1=3200&normalization=full&widget=340&x=0.31965145608805307&y=-0.06737939434295047

they seem on par. The 80D gives of course more pixels, but at least to my eyes, there is not much additional detail here.

Full frame is of course something I would like to have (who doesn't), but it just makes things even more expensive - the soon-to-be-replaced 5DIII is still >2350€ here (minus 300€ student cashback, though), but I would hate to part with the 18-35A and would need a new wideangle lens, and I would definitely need that 100-400 then, because the 70-200 F4 IS would clearly be too short on FF.


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## Maximilian (Jul 20, 2016)

Grummbeerbauer said:


> ...
> One main issue I had with my time with the 80D - and this is not related to the camera - is that my ancient Lightroom 4.4 doesn't support it...


Does it support the 7D2? If not you'll have the same issue here as well.



> The 7DII is still >1300€ here... a tad too much for my taste. On the other hand, there is still a "student cashback" promotion running here, which would allow me to save 150€ for the 7DII. But if I made use of that cashback option, then I think the camera would no be allowed to also participate in the 250€ cashback for the 100-400...


I'd just ask Canon about that 



> And in the end, when the 7DII came out I decided that it would gain me too little in image quality improvement over my 7D (all this based of course on internet resources, in particular the DPReview comparison tool). I think the 80D should have better image quality for my purposes, especially regarding DR. On the other hand, when comparing 80D and 7DII at higher ISO via the DPR tool


Whatever you decide, just keep in mind that the highest quality improvement (in your case) will come with better lenses. If you have the money for the 7D2+100-400L2, go for it. 



> Full frame is of course something I would like to have (who doesn't), but it just makes things even more expensive...


Reading about what you're doing with photography would make me recommend you staying with APS-C. 
Use the saved money for additional expenses for better lenses, etc.


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## Grummbeerbauer (Jul 20, 2016)

Maximilian said:


> Does it [Lightroom 4.4] support the 7D2? If not you'll have the same issue here as well.



Of course it doesn't... 
This seems to be the official list by Adobe:
https://helpx.adobe.com/camera-raw/kb/camera-raw-plug-supported-cameras.html

Browsing that list, I learned that I could get myself
- a 700D :
- a 1D C 8)
- a 100D  or maybe
- a D7100 (the cost of switching system would probably outweigh the savings of not having to purchase LR 6, though )



Maximilian said:


> I'd just ask Canon about that



The terms and conditions at http://www.canon.de/student-cashback/ are rather clear:



> "2.2.4. Das Angebot ist auf eine Kamera und drei Objektive bzw. Blitzgeräte pro Student beschränkt. Eingeschriebene Studenten dürfen einmalig am Angebot teilnehmen. *Dieses Angebot kann nicht mit anderen Angeboten kombiniert werden.*"



This translates to :"forget it" ;(



Maximilian said:


> Whatever you decide, just keep in mind that the highest quality improvement (in your case) will come with better lenses. If you have the money for the 7D2+100-400L2, go for it.



Actually, I still desire the 100-400II, despite being disappointed with the copy that I had... I firmly believe that it was a dud.



Maximilian said:


> Reading about what you're doing with photography would make me recommend you staying with APS-C.
> Use the saved money for additional expenses for better lenses, etc.



Yes, I concluded that, too. And there are other "areas of investment" (in particular outside of photography) where I can gain more with that money.


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## Grummbeerbauer (Jul 23, 2016)

I got another chance to try the 80D. To work around the LR 4.4 issue, I converted the RAWs to DNG, and LR would import them just fine. All shots processed to taste. Some selective sharpening. I did this on a laptop with a pretty crappy, uncalibrated screen, so I hope the colors are not too far off. I set LR's JPEG export quality slider to <80 to meet forum image size restrictions for the dragonfly and the water lily.
All were shot with the 100L, including the big bird in flight (it just went overhead when I was doing some macro shooting).


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## Grummbeerbauer (Jul 23, 2016)

next 2
The "bee in flight" shot happens to be among the better ones I got over the years :-[, although it is still blurry due to bee movement. I used my 580EX in HSS mode to get better shutter times, since my macro ring flash (make "El Cheapo") doesn't support HSS.
The big bird looks a bit washed out, but when I play with contrast, the detail of the undercarriage is mostly gone in the shadows.


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## Grummbeerbauer (Jul 23, 2016)

Earlier on the same day, I had been using the 7D, same lens, same location. Overall, I took only about 1/3 of the shots with the 7D than I did with the 80D, but the 80D seems to be giving me a better keeper rate.
AF is much more responsive, but sometimes I had trouble focusing on fine detail - I am pretty sure that the 7D's sport AF would have performed better here.
Below three shots done with the 7D for a non-scientific comparison.
The young blackbird just landed directly in front of me, I had the camera set to macro mode, including enabled flash, so the shot was overexposed quite a bit, which lead to some burned out highlights.
For the KC-135 I would have pushed the shadows more... well, actually I would have discarded it, but I decided to keep it and process it with the same recipe that I used for the Globemaster. 
The bee in flight shot would normally also be discarded, I added it, as it is representative for what I would get with the 7D. I don't think it is pure coincidence that the first time I use the 80D, I just manage to get more lucky.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Jul 23, 2016)

dilbert said:


> Grummbeerbauer said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...


If the "rather fragile" is the quality level of 70D, 80D series, I'd be happy with fragile cameras, since the pictures are very good.

The 80D seemed stronger than the camera of 35mm film, EOS 3, which was considered professional in his time.


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## Grummbeerbauer (Jul 24, 2016)

dilbert said:


> To put this in perspective, would you rather have a camera that was built like a tank but took crappy pictures or a camera that was rather fragile but took excellent pictures?



Maybe you got me wrong here, I wasn't really complaining about build quality of the recent xxDs (i.e., the way they are put together), my point was more about body material. 
Anyway, I think that the metal body of the 7D gives me a bit more reassuring feeling than the all plastic body of the 80D. But since I do not use the camera to drive a nail into something and since I never dropped my 7D, I think this is not much of a difference. The longer shutter life (if I am not mistaken, the original 7D was rated for 150k actuations, while the 80D is rated for 100k), on the other hand, could be relevant.


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## wsmith96 (Jul 24, 2016)

You keep coming back to the 80D here, even after all of the recommendations and criticisms provided. I think it's time to just go ahead and get the camera. It sounds like you enjoy it and that it is providing more keepers than your 7D, so what is stopping you from proceeding to buy it?


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## Grummbeerbauer (Jul 25, 2016)

wsmith96 said:


> You keep coming back to the 80D here, even after all of the recommendations and criticisms provided. I think it's time to just go ahead and get the camera. It sounds like you enjoy it and that it is providing more keepers than your 7D, so what is stopping you from proceeding to buy it?



Well, I am usually thinking twice (or thrice or more... ) before spending three-digit++ money on non-essentials like photography gear.
The problem is that for me, the picture is not clear here... some people recommend it, others say stick with the 7D.
Still undecided. Any comments on the sample images?


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## greger (Jul 26, 2016)

Lots of interesting thoughts and images in this post. The 80D seems to be a very nice camera. We bought my wife a 70D when it first came out. She loves it. Canon has yet to release a camera to get me to part with my 7D and my money.


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