# Official: Canon EOS M3 and It's Not Coming To North America



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 6, 2015)

```
<p><strong>United Kingdom, Republic of Ireland, 6 February 2015 –</strong> Canon today reveals the EOS M3 – a powerful Compact System Camera created for enthusiast photographers who demand premium performance. Fusing Canon’s unrivaled image quality and DSLR-levels of control in a compact body, the EOS M3 offers the ability to capture the world around you in exceptional detail. At the heart of the EOS M3 is Canon’s first 24.2 megapixel APS-C CMOS sensor and its most advanced image processor, DIGIC 6, delivering premium quality stills and Full HD Movies. Combined with super-fast AF performance, thanks to a new Hybrid CMOS AF III and 49-point AF System, this camera gives you the freedom to capture the beauty of movement. As an advanced photographer you’ll find everything you need at your fingertips, with intuitive DSLR-like dials and control, as well as the flexibility to change your lens, all shrunk down into a compact, ergonomic body to take with you wherever you go.</p>
<p><strong>Beauty and power in the palm of your hand

</strong>From city skylines and enchanting landscapes, to urban art and eye-catching portraits, the EOS M3 delivers clarity, rich colour and distinctive detail, with every image, using the 24.2 MP sensor. As light starts to fade and dusk descends, the EOS M3 excels, with the sensor’s vast 100-12,800 ISO range providing vivid, realistic and low-noise shots in even the most challenging of light situations.</p>
<p>Constructed for speed, whether you’re shooting an elusive animal on safari, or street performers on a city break, the subject of your shot will be in focus, with the EOS M3’s 49-point AF system and innovative new Hybrid CMOS AF III technology delivering lightning fast performance; focusing up to 6.1x faster than the original EOS M.</p>
<p><strong>Putting you in control – iconic EOS design and controls</strong>

The EOS M3 incorporates the quintessential EOS design DNA and is instantly comfortable in the palm of your hand thanks to the fluid design grip. Direct access to a range of controls, including an exposure compensation dial, main control dial and customisable buttons, let you adjust the camera’s settings to suit your shooting style.</p>
<p>For complete framing versatility, the large 7.5cm (3.0”) LCD touchscreen tilts up 180 degrees and down 45 degrees, to help you shoot from all angles, while also making multi-touch gestures a finger tap away. The screen also gives you access to Canon’s intuitive touch menu system found on EOS DSLRs.</p>
<p>The EOS M3 is a camera to make your own, with customisable controls, a hot shoe for Canon’s Speedlite flashes and optional tilt-type electronic viewfinder. Compatibility with EF-M lenses, including a choice of pancake and zoom lenses, means you can shoot any situation.  Plus, with Creative Assist, the EOS M3 can be controlled from the touch screen interface, and the effects previewed in real time as you shoot. Settings such as brightness,  background blur, vividness of colour, contrast, warmth and filter effects can be altered, and combinations can be saved to be called upon again when you need them, helping you shoot like a pro every time.</p>
<p><strong>Movies worth remembering</strong>

Budding movie makers can shoot precious moments in Full HD quality, with a choice of 24p, 25p and 30p frame rates, and MP4, for easy sharing.  You can be sure that your favourite people and places will always be in focus, with advanced Hybrid CMOS AF III providing continuous AF. For more experienced shooters, Touch AF gives you the flexibility to select AF points on the LCD even with moving subjects, and create professional-looking pull focus effects. For full control, Manual Movie puts you in the director’s seat, with complete aperture, shutter and ISO control, for stunningly creative results.</p>
<p><strong>Power to control and share</strong>

With the power to capture beautiful stills, comes the flexibility to remotely control the camera and transfer images, using integrated Wi-Fi and NFC connectivity. Ideal for shooting in unusual situations and positions for unique perspectives, remote shooting via the new Camera Connect app lets you control the camera’s key functions. Dynamic NFC enables single touch image transfers to smart devices while the auto-sync functionality means you can upload all your images to Canon’s cloud storage service, irista, for instant back-up and peace of mind.</p>
<p><strong>EOS M3 key benefits:</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Performance and creativity, in an EOS you can take everywhere</li>
<li>Be spontaneous. Enjoy fast, responsive focusing</li>
<li>Take control of your photography and watch your creativity grow</li>
<li>Be as imaginative with movies as you are with photos</li>
<li>Remote camera control and image sharing via Wi-Fi</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Pricing and availability</strong></p>
<p>The EOS M3 will be available from April 2015 with a RSP of £599.99 / €769.99.</p>
```


----------



## Jamesy (Feb 6, 2015)

Not available in North America - bummer...


----------



## cnardo (Feb 6, 2015)

Really ! How exactly does that work? It's not like we can't order it from Europe. So, can someone explain the thinking behind this sort of decision? :-\


----------



## fxk (Feb 6, 2015)

So, I wonder what in the world Canon is thinking? Not coming to North America?
That was such a plus to Canon's bottom line when the M2 didn't come. Sounds like a plan. Keep it out of the hands of the folks with the most disposable cash. Guess I'll have to buy mine in the UK and have it shipped here.
Idiots.
frank


----------



## Jamesy (Feb 6, 2015)

Bizarre indeed. No M2 in North America and the 11-22 and 55-250 were not released in the US. Very strange strategy...


----------



## Famateur (Feb 6, 2015)

Looks like I was right. 8)

Now let's see how I did on my other predictions...


----------



## dadgummit (Feb 6, 2015)

fxk said:


> So, I wonder what in the world Canon is thinking? Not coming to North America?
> That was such a plus to Canon's bottom line when the M2 didn't come. Sounds like a plan. Keep it out of the hands of the folks with the most disposable cash. Guess I'll have to buy mine in the UK and have it shipped here.
> Idiots.
> frank



If canon is basically giving us the finger why go to that trouble to give them money? Sony and many others have agreed to support the US. I am too invested in canon's DSLR's to switch right now but I have no issues looking elsewhere for my mirrorless needs


----------



## Dylan777 (Feb 6, 2015)

Looks like the demand for Canon mirrorless system is not that great in US


----------



## Famateur (Feb 6, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> Looks like the demand for Canon mirrorless system is not that great in US



Agreed. If and when Canon sees enough demand here, a worthy mirrorless body will be introduced. As long as Canon keeps selling DSLRs, there's not much reason to change course, forum rantings notwithstanding.


----------



## Tugela (Feb 6, 2015)

There are much better MILCs out there, so if this particular one doesn't come to North America, so what? 

The market target group for Canon's MILCS are the people who buy their equipment based on the brand logo on the front. They certainly don't have performance as a selling point for the product.


----------



## distant.star (Feb 6, 2015)

.
Somebody at Canon NA has some real juice!!!


----------



## fxk (Feb 6, 2015)

dadgummit said:


> fxk said:
> 
> 
> > So, I wonder what in the world Canon is thinking? Not coming to North America?
> ...


I'm heavily invested in Canon DSLR L glass, in addition the investment in three of the four M lenses. If someone other than Canon can make proper use of the glass I have... otherwise, it's the M3 + the $250 EVF + lens adapter.


----------



## Dylan777 (Feb 6, 2015)

Tugela said:


> There are much better MILCs out there, so if this particular one doesn't come to North America, so what?
> 
> The market target group for Canon's MILCS are the people who buy their equipment based on the brand logo on the front. They certainly don't have performance as a selling point for the product.



"focusing up to 6.1x faster than the original EOS M" ==> hope this is not just marketing talks


----------



## kphoto99 (Feb 6, 2015)

And it is not available in Canada either.


----------



## Triggyman (Feb 6, 2015)

What a disappointment. So maybe the 750D and 760D won't be available to North America as well, as there is no mention of the T6i to date. LOL

Okay then I might just look at the a6000 for my compact mirrorless needs. I just don't like the 16-50 PZ lens...

Or just get the first M for cheap.


----------



## kphoto99 (Feb 6, 2015)

Triggyman said:


> What a disappointment. So maybe the 750D and 760D won't be available to North America as well, as there is no mention of the T6i to date. LOL
> 
> Okay then I might just look at the a6000 for my compact mirrorless needs. I just don't like the 16-50 PZ lens...
> 
> Or just get the first M for cheap.


T6i and T6s are available both in US and Canada.


----------



## dcm (Feb 6, 2015)

Guess Canon USA saved me some money for the time being. Don't think that will accelerate my other camera/lens purchases.

Actually looks pretty good from the information, reviews, and youTube vids I've seen so far. It had more than I expected - MP, AF improvements, focus peaking, controls, ... I actually like the tilt screen and tilting OVF, but I used a Yashica TLR back in my youth. The WiFi remote also looked good. May still import a copy down the road.


----------



## BRunner (Feb 6, 2015)

Canon Rumors said:


> <p><strong>Pricing and availability</strong></p>
> <p>The EOS M3 will be available from April 2015 with a RSP of £599.99 / €769.99.</p>



The price puts it in Sony A6000 territory... Let's see if it performs comparably too...


----------



## AvTvM (Feb 6, 2015)

In Europe, especially in Germany EOS M3 will be DOA at € 769 launch price. It is 200 too high. Opens a nice window for Samsung NX 500 @599 (including kit kens) and Sony A5100, A6000 and upcoming A7000. 

Looks like Canon is not able to learn from their mistakes. They are in for a world of pain = further declining sales. So be it!


----------



## Mitch.Conner (Feb 6, 2015)

Bummer. I was thinking of getting one.


----------



## Tinky (Feb 6, 2015)

Famateur said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > Looks like the demand for Canon mirrorless system is not that great in US
> ...



So canon are holding off until theres one good enough for the yanks? It's that kind of self-awareness that makes America friends all over the world.


----------



## Etienne (Feb 6, 2015)

Now I feel conned by Canon. They offered the lenses here but no upgrade path. I bought lenses only because I expected a better camera to come one day. That's a kind of bait and switch. Sell the lenses and leave us with one of the worst bodies made.


----------



## Tinky (Feb 6, 2015)

AvTvM said:


> In Europe, especially in Germany EOS M3 will be DOA at € 769 launch price. It is 200 too high. Opens a nice window for Samsung NX 500 @599 (including kit kens) and Sony A5100, A6000 and upcoming A7000.
> 
> Looks like Canon is not able to learn from their mistakes. They are in for a world of pain = further declining sales. So be it!



Launch prices are usually 10-20% higher than what they'll settle at in a few months.

It's an improvement from the M, when it was launched it was £300-£350 more than the equivalent spec'd rebel.

I like the look of it, in black at least. Tbh I'm hoping that todays launch will just crunch the prices of the m1 further. 
Get a couple for timelapse.


----------



## LDS (Feb 6, 2015)

AvTvM said:


> Looks like Canon is not able to learn from their mistakes. They are in for a world of pain = further declining sales. So be it!



I can't understand what market their aiming for, the Hasselblad Lunar one, maybe? It looks quite Canon is trying to design a "stylish" camera instead of a "useful" one.


----------



## Maximilian (Feb 6, 2015)

AvTvM said:


> In Europe, especially in Germany EOS M3 will be DOA at € 769 launch price. It is 200 too high. Opens a nice window for Samsung NX 500 @599 (including kit kens) and Sony A5100, A6000 and upcoming A7000.
> 
> Looks like Canon is not able to learn from their mistakes. They are in for a world of pain = further declining sales. So be it!


totally agree. 
And as long as they stay with this limited choice of EF-M lenses I have no interest on this.
Furthermore I got tired waiting for something really usefull and ended up with a 100D as "small" camera in November last year.
So be it!


----------



## xps (Feb 6, 2015)

Does anybody know, if the M3 works with Canon EF lenses? How will be the performance of the AF system?

The price is high, but so I can use my bought leneses on this mlc too


----------



## Jamesy (Feb 6, 2015)

xps said:


> Does anybody know, if the M3 works with Canon EF lenses? How will be the performance of the AF system?
> 
> The price is high, but so I can use my bought leneses on this mlc too


There is an adapter to convert the EF-M to EF mount available that allows you to mount EF glass on the M series cameras. I see no reason this would not work on the M3.


----------



## sulla (Feb 6, 2015)

I know Canon USA is a legal entity of it's own, but Canon HQ should just force them to retail the EOS M. No cherry picking should be allowed. My local Canon dealer doesn't sell neither the 1200D nor the 100D...

I know some car manufacturers do: When a dealer sells certain models, he is also obliged to sell all of them.


----------



## baervan (Feb 6, 2015)

Dear Canon, if you added an evf instead of the pointless flash, 1080p 60fps and DPAF, i would have thrown money in your face so fast it would've hurt.

But yet again an all-compromises body. Tune that price a 300 bucks less and ill think about it.


----------



## e_honda (Feb 6, 2015)

Mitch.Conner said:


> Bummer. I was thinking of getting one.



You can always Fleabay it. Lots of M2's where bought this way. Same with the 11-22mm lenses.


----------



## Jamesy (Feb 6, 2015)

e_honda said:


> Mitch.Conner said:
> 
> 
> > Bummer. I was thinking of getting one.
> ...


I did this with my 22 and ef/efm adapter with no issues. I bought my 11-22 local here in Canada and many from the States were buying online in Canada. It remains to be seen what the Japanese sellers will price these at on eBay - I may end up going that route for an M3.


----------



## docsmith (Feb 6, 2015)

Wow...burn Canon USA once......


----------



## freejay (Feb 6, 2015)

I'm already pleased with my EOS-M but the M3 specs look really promising! And it's officially available in Germany ;-) 

I can't wait to get one!


----------



## LDS (Feb 6, 2015)

Maximilian said:


> Furthermore I got tired waiting for something really usefull and ended up with a 100D as "small" camera in November last year.



I was waiting to see if Canon could end up to deliver a good compact body with interchangeable lenses and EF compatibility... but it looks the M line still aims at a design I'm not interested in. I guess I'll buy a 100D as well, no need of clumsy external EVF and no need of an EF adapter - and everything at a much cheaper price.
And let's see if Canon will deliver an improved 100D also anytime soon...


----------



## 1Zach1 (Feb 6, 2015)

Well that is disappointing.


----------



## Maximilian (Feb 6, 2015)

LDS said:


> Maximilian said:
> 
> 
> > Furthermore I got tired waiting for something really usefull and ended up with a 100D as "small" camera in November last year.
> ...


A little bit OT, I can only recomend the 100D:
- for the actual price point (got mine with kit lens for 400 €, right now it's about 450 €) it's a steal
- I like to have an optical view finder although I know it needs space
- I find the ergonomics better than the other xxxD bodies, although it's even smaller
the form of the grip and trigger position is better for the size of my hand
- of course the IQ and AF performance is not as good as the xxD or the FF bodies, but it's still okay


----------



## LDS (Feb 6, 2015)

Maximilian said:


> - of course the IQ and AF performance is not as good as the xxD or the FF bodies, but it's still okay


I already have a 5DMKIII, but what I'm looking for is a smaller camera to carry around easily even when I'm not out just to take photos - while still versatile enough to cover different kind of photos when and if needed - and if can be a backup body the better - it could be better to take a photo anyway even with lower IQ that nothing because of a non working camera...

I tried my sister's G11 but of course it can't use EF lenses, and I can't really get well without a real viewfinder (the G11 one is almost a joke). I find rear LCDs good only when the camera is mounted on a tripod. Otherwise I find shooting with arms close to the body much more natural and comfortable (and steady), while all distracting elements, lights and reflections are kept away.

Let's see if Canon delivers soons a 24MP 100D successor with improved IQ (and may AF) - or if it avoids it because it could be an M killer...


----------



## neuroanatomist (Feb 6, 2015)

Bummer that it's not being launched in North America, I do like my EOS M. I've been strongly considering adding the EF-M 11-22mm to my kit, sadly also not available in the US...but I might pick one up next time I'm in Europe (which will be next week  ).




cnardo said:


> Really ! How exactly does that work? It's not like we can't order it from Europe. So, can someone explain the thinking behind this sort of decision? :-\



The EOS M was a poor seller in the US, until they slashed prices (and thus slashed profit). Sure, you can order it from Europe...but what if it breaks? If Canon USA doesn't sell it, they don't service it.


----------



## AvTvM (Feb 6, 2015)

neuroanatomist said:


> The EOS M was a poor seller in the US, until they slashed prices (and thus slashed profit). Sure, you can order it from Europe...but what if it breaks? If Canon USA doesn't sell it, they don't service it.



EOS M3 will be a poor seller in Europe as well, until they cut launch price MSRP ( 769 w/o kit) in half. ;D

* Sony A5100 body only € 415 (street), with (shitty 16-50PZ) kitzoom € 489
* Sony A6000 body only € 530 (street), with (shitty 16-50 PZ kitzoom) € 645
* Fuji X-E2 (w EVF, street) body only: € 599
* newly announced Samsung NX500 w/ 28 MP BSI sensor and AF as in NX-1; 9fps; 4k video recording, launch price/MSRP: € 599 - including 16-50 kit zoom (launch price/MSRP)

I don't mind the pricing, since it maximizes my chances to pick it up in a pre-Christmas fire sale at € 349 ;D 8)
Until then my EOS M (1) and the fat old mirrorslapper will do.


----------



## zim (Feb 6, 2015)

Tinky said:


> Famateur said:
> 
> 
> > Dylan777 said:
> ...



Not sure that's accurate maybe they just think North America's (isn't yank's racest? 8) ) aren't interested in 

Beauty and power in the palm of your hand
Putting you in control
Movies worth remembering
Power to control and share



.... ducks ;D


----------



## DRR (Feb 6, 2015)

I've worked with a number of brand and product launches in my career. One thing that happens quite often is that launches are soft launches - a soft drink, for example, will only "launch" in certain markets, so that the company can get feedback on what consumers like, and don't like, and they take that information to tweak the formula until they are sure it will scale to the full market. 

These test markets, are never big markets - New York, Los Angeles, Chicago - they are always smaller markets with a lower population, and more controlled demographic factors. Denver, SLC, Columbus, Raleigh-Durham. This allows the company to get their toes wet with a launch, without the full-scale investment.

In Canon terms, this is without a doubt, what's happening here. Canon has learned their lesson with the M1 - that camera did not sell well here because there was not enough demand. It sold so poorly in fact that they had to be firesaled, and inventory cleared at half the price. This was a BIG hit to Canon's bottom line. This was Canon's "New Coke."

Mirrorless sells well in Asia. So it will be introduced in Asia. Europe is a much smaller market than the US. So they are trying a staggered approach. Sell where they know it will sell (Asia) and also intro in a market that is smaller, and you can seed more effectively (Europe). Avoid the market where you learned, just a year or two ago, that DSLR sales are still strong and mirrorless is not. (North America).

This is the smart financial move by Canon. Even had they intro'ed the M3 in the US, a $799 mirrorless camera would not sell well against a $799 DSLR. So why invest in it? The people who really want it will import from another country, with no loss of investment from Canon.

I still believe Canon will eventually make the Rebel line into APS-C mirrorless with an EF-M mount. My guess is they will have a Rebel EF-M line with Rebel level features, and a compact EF-M line that is small (the M line). But since DSLRs are selling well enough in North America right now, it's not the time to make that move. For now, continue to sell EF-M in Asia, seed it in Europe, wait for maturity in these two markets, and once DSLR sales slow in NA, Canon is in a perfect position to intro new products to NA. It will at that point be a much more mature system at a better price point.

I am a pre-firesale M owner. I was not going to buy a new $799 M anyway, so no big loss to me. My DSLR and its fast lenses gets 99% of the use.


----------



## iron-t (Feb 6, 2015)

Bah! I have an M, the 18-55 and the 22. Love the concept and like the lenses, but it doesn't get used much because I grab the 5D3 whenever I want to be reasonably sure I can get the shot (iPhone 6 Plus when it doesn't matter). Tried to do a family vacation with just the M and it was a total failure. Just try getting it to focus in low light, say Disney at sundown. I regretted not hauling the 5D3.

The M3 might be exactly the update I want, but it's not coming to the US. I too am contemplating offloading the M and picking up an SL1 instead. The kit is going refurbished for $359 right now, I could lose the EF to EF-M adapter and would have an onboard flash. And the OVF and phase AF come along free!


----------



## crashpc (Feb 6, 2015)

Of course $799 mirrorless will sell poorly compared to $799 DLSR, when it has slower AF, less FPS, shallower buffer, NO viewfinder, weaker flash, and we could go on and on. It´s really poor. Did Canon people sh!t themselves in pants? What do they smoke? I like M3 very much, but there is NO chance to buy it for that price. It IS DOA in Europe for sure.


----------



## Psyclone (Feb 6, 2015)

Well, Canon, if you're not going to let me spend money on the M3 then you'd better give me an upgrade path for the SL1.


----------



## fxk (Feb 6, 2015)

Tinky said:


> Famateur said:
> 
> 
> > Dylan777 said:
> ...


Speaking as a Yank, "...A worthy mirrorless body..." is pretty arrogant and demeaning to the rest of the world. Remember the term "the ugly American?" Seems we don't learn.

As for the camera, yeah, it isn't everything everyone could want. Nothing ever will be. I believe it may be a good camera (primarily AF tests will tell) though expensive, and after adding the extra cost of the EVF...

For me, it is still the right camera because of the size (has to travel on a M/C), and I am quite happy with the lenses available (yes, I have the 11-22), and the quality of the resulting photos. I also like that I can utilize some of my old Leica glass on the M bodies. Guess I'll hold my nose and reach for the plastic.


----------



## bf (Feb 6, 2015)

No new lens, bummer! No official release in US, bummer! I don't get why they don't bring it on the gray market? US is the best place to sale the M2's clearance!


----------



## mangobutter (Feb 6, 2015)

Buy it on eBay. Why the whining? Everything is available everywhere =) BTW, the M1 is just fine. I love my M1. The focus speed is not a problem at all. And the resulting photos are great.


----------



## scyrene (Feb 6, 2015)

DRR said:


> I've worked with a number of brand and product launches in my career. One thing that happens quite often is that launches are soft launches - a soft drink, for example, will only "launch" in certain markets, so that the company can get feedback on what consumers like, and don't like, and they take that information to tweak the formula until they are sure it will scale to the full market.
> 
> These test markets, are never big markets - New York, Los Angeles, Chicago - they are always smaller markets with a lower population, and more controlled demographic factors. Denver, SLC, Columbus, Raleigh-Durham. This allows the company to get their toes wet with a launch, without the full-scale investment.
> 
> ...



I don't doubt your expertise, but I'm intrigued - how come Europe is a smaller market? Its population is greater than the US. Do Americans buy more gadgets per capita, or do other companies lead Canon in Europe, or is it something else?


----------



## scyrene (Feb 6, 2015)

mangobutter said:


> Buy it on eBay. Why the whining? Everything is available everywhere =) BTW, the M1 is just fine. I love my M1. The focus speed is not a problem at all. And the resulting photos are great.



I think most EOS M users will agree, for the (eventual) price and weight, it offers excellent image quality.


----------



## tacoman (Feb 6, 2015)

I sold my EOS-M and bought an A6000 in October. When the M3 first started leaking, I was having second thoughts about that, but feel very good about it this morning!

I loved a lot of things about my M - the 22mm is a fantastic lens, so is the 11-22. I prefer the smaller size of the M to the A6000 and miss the touch screen (guess I could get an A5100 for those, but it has some of the M shortcomings). I also miss the familiar menu layout of the Canon, since I'm used to it from my 70D. But, I decided that Canon didn't care about the enthusiast mirrorless market and Sony did, so I went where I saw a future.

I don't know if abandoning the North American mirrorless market is a good call for Canon. I suspect that people like me who want a mirrorless as a second travel system do not make a large enough market, and people who aren't already invested in Canon have no reason to pick it over Sony. And Sony serves me well. With Sony, Nikon 1, Micro Four Thirds, Samsung, and others entrenched in the North American market, I can see why Canon is taking a pass.

The risk for Canon is that I'm considering a full frame in the next 12-18 months. Prior to this, the 6D would have been the only camera in the running for me (can't afford the 5D). Now the A7 is also on my radar. My Canon primes and Speedlights, along with a continued preference for Canon over Sony will probably still drive me to the 6D or successor, but that's not the sure thing that it was before I bought the Sony.​


----------



## lw (Feb 6, 2015)

crashpc said:


> Of course $799 mirrorless will sell poorly compared to $799 DLSR, when it has slower AF, less FPS, shallower buffer, NO viewfinder, weaker flash, and we could go on and on. It´s really poor. Did Canon people sh!t themselves in pants? What do they smoke? I like M3 very much, but there is NO chance to buy it for that price. *It IS DOA in Europe for sure.*



The M3 is cheaper than the new DSLRs in Europe though.
The M3 kit is £90 cheaper than the 750D kit.
The 760D price hasn't been announced as a kit yet, but the body only is £50 more expensive than the M3 kit.

Whether £599 for the M3 kit is still competitive with new MILC cameras from other manufacturers is another question of course.


----------



## DRR (Feb 6, 2015)

scyrene said:


> I don't doubt your expertise, but I'm intrigued - how come Europe is a smaller market? Its population is greater than the US. Do Americans buy more gadgets per capita, or do other companies lead Canon in Europe, or is it something else?



Sorry, this was a false assumption based on old data. It appears as though camera sales to Europe now outnumber camera sales to the Americas - since about 2012 or so. Your post made me look up some recent data, it looks like the Euro market is at least as big as Americas, in some cases larger.

Based on that, I have no idea why M3 would go to Europe and not the US. One speculation I have though, is from looking at some more recent data, it does appear mirrorless is taking hold in Europe at a faster rate than Americas, so this may be enough to make Canon believe M3 will be better received in Europe than the US.


----------



## Famateur (Feb 6, 2015)

Tinky said:


> Famateur said:
> 
> 
> > Dylan777 said:
> ...



Wow...okay. Didn't mean to make anyone angry or offend them.

Tinky, I generally enjoy reading your thoughtful posts, so the sarcastic jab at "yanks" and insulting their image throughout the world took me a bit by surprise. If it was meant in good spirit, an emoticon next time would help.  I'll try not to take it personally and chalk it up to disappointment in the M launch news. I'll also try not to judge your character and that of your fellow citizens by a single forum post, too. 

A few things (feel free to call it defensive, damage control, whatever...  ):

1. Not sure when all of North America became "yanks", but unless things drastically changed overnight, it includes Canada and Mexico. I guess that makes all three countries' populations arrogant, too, for not demanding mirrorless cameras?

2. The last time I was in the UK, I couldn't find a decent root beer or a jar of peanut butter (over a few ounces) to save my life. I'm guessing it's because...there simply isn't a demand for it. Does that make the British arrogant and hamper their international appeal as potential friends? Of course not...

3. I think the "making friends all over the world" (or difficulty thereof) has a LOT more to do with the geopolitical policies of our respective governments (okay, and perhaps some unfortunate, stereotypical tourists) and not about the attitudes of the citizenry, which consists of a broad spectrum of opinions, attitudes and even cultures. I would expect that the British were still generally a delightful people in the grand old days of the British Empire, despite their government dominating much of the world.

4. Yuichi Ishizuka, president and COO, Canon U.S.A., Inc appears to be Japanese. Is _he _an arrogant American for choosing not to bring the M3 to the North American market? Was it because he thinks _Americans _are arrogant that he chose not to bring the M3 to the North American market. Does a business even care about arrogance of its customers? Nope. It's about market demand -- and that is entirely what my comment was about.

I think it was my choice of adjective (worthy) that caused the heartburn. My bad -- should have used "appealing" or "impressive" or something. Based on your comment, it sounds like it came across as me saying, "The M3 might be good enough for the rest of the world, but it's not good enough for us, and the rest of the world just doesn't know any better." If I had known that's how it would be taken, I would have used different language. My sincere apologies.


Dare I try again? 

There isn't enough demand in North America, in Canon management's opinion, to justify launching a mirrorless body here ("here" being North America  ). This market, for whatever reason, prefers its DLSRs, and it would likely take a truly compelling mirrorless body to change that.

It appears to me that Canon is willing to let other brands spend the money and take the risks to try to win over DSLR users to the mirrorless concept, especially after its failure with the M1. If/when that happens in North America, Canon will re-enter the market, and when it does, it will need a compelling, impressive camera -- worthy (gasp) of its competition -- to succeed.

Hopefully that was a bit better communicated. We okay now? 








Now for a baseless personal theory on the difficulty of winning DSLR users over to mirrorless in the North American market: It might be that the average consumer looking to get something more capable than their iPhone or Powershot (which I believe is the primary market for the M) might have a hard time seeing enough difference (especially because of physical appearance) between a mirrorless body and an advanced point-and-shoot. 

My hunch is that, whether justified or not, consumers here (North America) see a DSLR as a "serious" camera and see mirrorless as a compromised stepping stone to what they really want (or think they want). They might be thinking, "Why use this little thing that looks like my friend's G Series, but with interchangeable lenses? If I'm going to have to mess with lenses, I might as well go for it and get a DSLR." Not saying that's what I think or if it's right or wrong...just a thought.

I can't tell you how many times people see my modest DSLR and say, "Wow -- that's a big camera. You must know what you're doing." If that same person goes to buy a camera with that perception, they're going to choose the Rebel, not the M. After all, it's a big, cool camera that's sure to produce better images and that now others will be impressed by, too. It doesn't matter how capable a mirrorless body is, it won't sell well in this market if a DSLR in the same price tier exists -- until this idea of "bigger is better" or "bigger is pro" is successfully countered. I think that'll be awhile in North America, and apparently, so does Canon, USA.

Now you know why my kids often refer to me as "the old windbag."


----------



## RLPhoto (Feb 6, 2015)

Meh, would skip it if it did arrive to the US.


----------



## AvTvM (Feb 6, 2015)

I don't really believe the theories about US and/or North Americans buying behaviour re. "(only) large camera (DSLR) = good camera". ;D

There are better informed and less informed (potential) customers in any market. 

The original EOS M (1) failed not only in the US, but also in Europe. Not because of its size, but because of the hugely inflated PRICE Canon was asking at launch for a camera with sub-par specifications and functionality compared to similar competitive offerings. I am convinced, if Canon had priced it slightly lower than the EOS SL1/100D (DSLR), it would have sold reasonably well - in Europe and in the U.S. too and it would have spared Canon the firesale and the embarassment. 

Given the EOS-M history, I consider it all the more STUPID of Canon to again try and launch the EOS M3 about 30% higher than the relevant competitive market segment (medium-specced viewfinder-less APS-C MILC) - at least in Europe (have not checked Japanese/Asian MSRPs). 

At launch price the M3 will flop in Europe and it would also flop in the U.S. if it would be launched there at USD 769 BODY only, and without external EVF (+250 USD/€).

Not because of its "smaller than DSLR size", but because of Canon's ridiculously stupid asking price. :


----------



## Eldar (Feb 6, 2015)

AvTvM said:


> I don't really believe the theories about US and/or North Americans buying behaviour re. "(only) large camera (DSLR) = good camera". ;D
> 
> There are better informed and less informed (potential) customers in any market.
> 
> ...


Price in Norway for the M3 w/ 18-55 IS is app. $900, including 25% sales tax.


----------



## GrumpyMoose (Feb 6, 2015)

tacoman said:


> I sold my EOS-M and bought an A6000 in October. When the M3 first started leaking, I was having second thoughts about that, but feel very good about it this morning!
> 
> I loved a lot of things about my M - the 22mm is a fantastic lens, so is the 11-22. I prefer the smaller size of the M to the A6000 and miss the touch screen (guess I could get an A5100 for those, but it has some of the M shortcomings). I also miss the familiar menu layout of the Canon, since I'm used to it from my 70D. But, I decided that Canon didn't care about the enthusiast mirrorless market and Sony did, so I went where I saw a future.​




^This exactly!

I recently sold off most of my Canon gear (large DSLRs & Lenses) except for my EOS M, in favor of Sony mirrorless (a6000 & a7R). I figured I'd give Canon one last chance, to which they have now pulled off a spectacular FAIL!

While I may still pickup an imported M3 one day just out of curiosity, my path forward now is much simpler. As there's virtually no chance of Sony repeating the same blunder by not releasing their new a7000 to NA, I will simply focus there when the time comes to upgrade my a6000, and pay no more attention to Canon. 

Canon has merely doubled down on their commitment to the same old tired and uninspiring path of releasing ever bigger and more bloated dinosaur DSLRs at equally more bloated and ridiculous prices.​


----------



## Famateur (Feb 6, 2015)

fxk said:


> Tinky said:
> 
> 
> > Famateur said:
> ...



See my long(er)-winded reply to Tinky for a full response (particularly my second attempt in which I state that it must be "worthy of its _competition_" not worthy of an elitist American, as was understood from my apparently poor choice of adjective). I might not be the best communicator, but your assumption that I am arrogant and am demeaning the rest of the world and "don't learn" seems to exhibit a touch of the arrogance of which you accuse me -- particularly the "we don't learn" part. Were you speaking directly to me with condescension, or were you speaking past me to those I might have offended, apologizing on my behalf? It's amazing to me how quickly people rush to judgment to criticize what they see as a rash or improper judgment.

This forum is rife with attacks hurled at Canon for its (in some people's opinion) ineptitude for producing what they consider a worthless, half-hearted mirrorless camera -- simply because it doesn't possess the features they think it should. These "it's unworthy of me or my money" comments are all over the place. Notice that I have _never _participated in any such derogatory comments. My comments have always been an attempt at market analysis in trying to figure out Canon's strategy.

It's strange to me that my statement about a potential future mirrorless body being exceptional once the North American market shows strong demand for mirrorless bodies has instantly labeled me as arrogant, demeaning and stubbornly ignorant. Yet, comments from people from a smattering of countries around the world -- even Americans -- who consider the M a worthless wasted effort by Canon, are NOT elitist in their disdainful rejection of the product and their assumption that it should be designed just for them? Bizzaro world...

Anyway, arguments like this suck, so I'm going to leave it here. Back to the cameras...  :-X


----------



## andrewflo (Feb 6, 2015)

Wow what a disappointment... pretty evident that it's not worth Canon's wallet to distribute to North America because they predict the M3 wouldn't sell.

As much as we can make a fuss about it, I'm sure they have a better idea about this than we do unfortunately.

Feeling a bit robbed for buying EF-M glass and accessories though. Really anything in the Canon eco-system because I specifically got an EOS M + adapter to keep it all in one camp.

If anything this is making me feel like I should learn a lesson or something.


----------



## Act444 (Feb 6, 2015)

Initially I was disappointed that yet again we would miss out. 

But then again...sounds like the price would have been around $799 which would have been too much anyway (I would at least hope the EVF would be thrown in at that point) so I will stick with the first M which has been serving my needs just fine, and continues to. I suppose what I won't do is continue to invest in the system and the lenses...

Too bad though, it looked intriguing and had potential. It might be possible that I may have to start looking to another brand for my compact needs!


----------



## Famateur (Feb 6, 2015)

AvTvM said:


> I don't really believe the theories about US and/or North Americans buying behaviour re. "(only) large camera (DSLR) = good camera". ;D



Fair enough. 



AvTvM said:


> There are better informed and less informed (potential) customers in any market.



Agreed. 



AvTvM said:


> I am convinced, if Canon had priced it slightly lower than the EOS SL1/100D (DSLR), it would have sold reasonably well - in Europe and in the U.S. too and it would have spared Canon the firesale and the embarrassment.



Possibly, but if you're Canon, would you want people to buy the M for less, or the SL1 for more, along with EF lenses and future body upgrades? 

I'm not convinced that those who passed on the M because of its high price went to a different brand of mirrorless. My hunch is that they tended to buy an SL1 or Rebel instead. Your mention of adjusting the price relative to the SL1 implies that we might be in agreement here, but I don't want to make that assumption.


----------



## Famateur (Feb 6, 2015)

As I think about this more, it seems that it might help to make a distinction between two very different segments of the mirrorless market:

*Group A: *Those who have never owned a DSLR and currently shoot with a camera phone or Powershot but would like to take their photography to a higher level.

*Group B:* Those who already own a DSLR and want a compact system that doesn't hold them back from their current level of photography.

There might very well be other groups, too, so I'm not intentionally limiting it to these -- just making an observation about these two groups.

It would seem to me that the EOS M series is aimed at Group A. The majority of complainers about the M series seems to be Group B. Incidentally, it would seem that mirrorless offerings from other brands, particularly the Sony A7 series, are aimed at Group B.

Complaining that the product positioned to meet the demands of Group A doesn't meet the demands of Group B seems a bit misdirected. That said, I understand why people in Group B with Canon gear would want Canon to make a mirrorless product aimed at Group B. For their sakes, I hope that Sony, Olympus and Fuji succeed in establishing the mirrorless market for Group B -- enough to be attractive for Canon to respond with an offering that competes well in the Group B market.

Until then, it appears that Canon is content to sell DSLRs.


----------



## Bruce Photography (Feb 6, 2015)

Jamesy said:


> xps said:
> 
> 
> > Does anybody know, if the M3 works with Canon EF lenses? How will be the performance of the AF system?
> ...


Since the M3 isn't actually out, I can only make assumptions that the M1 mount = M3 mount and that all the adapters I've bought will work. Recently I bought several on buy.com for under $50.00. This means that ALL my Canon lenses work on my M1 cameras. If Canon would re-visit their poor decision (seems poor to me) not to market something they will already have to the US, I would issue a pre-order at the $600 level to gain the extra MP's. I also shoot with a D7100 and find 24 MP is more of a sweet spot for these APS-C sized sensors.

Only Canon makes an EVF camera that (with adapter) can fit ALL of it's lenses. At least to the best of my knowledge. And now I find out they don't want to sell it to me. This kind of treatment is why I got tired of this kind of game and started buying Nikon lenses and cameras. It is true that they too had a whole lens line for the small cameras but the sensors were also smaller than APS-C. I'm interested in a mirrorless camera that has at least an APS-C sensor that takes either Canon or Nikon lens (ALL lenses) with or without an adapter where the adapter can provide the FULL functionality (including AF and VR) of the lens. As far as I know, the M1, M2, and M3 are the only cameras that meet that metric of using their own lenses (even when it requires an adapter like Canon -no glass inside). Am I wrong?


----------



## Tinky (Feb 6, 2015)

Famateur said:


> Wow...okay. Didn't mean to make anyone angry or offend them.
> 
> Tinky, I generally enjoy reading your thoughtful posts, so the sarcastic jab at "yanks" and insulting their image throughout the world took me a bit by surprise. If it was meant in good spirit, an emoticon next time would help.  I'll try not to take it personally and chalk it up to disappointment in the M launch news. I'll also try not to judge your character and that of your fellow citizens by a single forum post, too.
> 
> ...



Yeah we're fine buddy. I know it's an American forum in the main, and that the M1 was horrifically marketed there (and in the UK - thankfully)

I'm a staunch defender of the M because it was exactly what I thought canon would come up with. What I think of the m3 is a logical progression from that, I won't buy one because the two M's I currently have do what I need, but yeah I think they are a good launch. They are not a gh4 or an A7, but they aren't marketed as such, least by price. 

I'm using canon lenses I bought years ago, and I'll still be using those lenses in years to come, hopefully.

How many m43 and E mount users can say that? 

So I was not disappointed with the launch. I think it's great that Canon have launched their 50mp cameras, as if nothing else its good for the brand prestige, the tech usually trickles down and it means lots of OCD amateurs who suddenly need 50mp after all will be selling off their lightly used 5D3's to people like me.

Sorry for the yank bit. I guess I was just yanking your chain a little bit as there is a big world out here.

Thoughtful reply which I appreciate.


----------



## geoffmalter (Feb 6, 2015)

Maybe Canon will throw us a bone and make the 11-22 available in the US.

While I would like to have faster AF in my M1, there have only been a few times when I needed it. I like everything else about the M1, and use a Clearviewer as my viewfinder.


----------



## tacoman (Feb 6, 2015)

Famateur said:


> As I think about this more, it seems that it might help to make a distinction between two very different segments of the mirrorless market:
> 
> *Group A: *Those who have never owned a DSLR and currently shoot with a camera phone or Powershot but would like to take their photography to a higher level.
> 
> *Group B:* Those who already own a DSLR and want a compact system that doesn't hold them back from their current level of photography.



Yes, I think this is dead on. I'm very much in group B (as I suspect are most people here). And I'm disappointed, but since others do market excellent group B cameras, I've gone elsewhere for a mirrorless system.

I don't want to say Canon bungled this, because they might be right just competing for group A. But I have to wonder if Canon, and Nikon, which has taken a different, but also questionable mirrorless path, are risking the future by letting some of their most avid customers consider other systems. Once someone has an investment in both camps (as I do with Canon SLR and Sony mirrorless), you run the risk that they eventually decide to go with one and don't pick yours.


----------



## bf (Feb 6, 2015)

Should we remind Canon that about 20 million Asians do live in the USA?


----------



## iron-t (Feb 6, 2015)

andrewflo said:


> Feeling a bit robbed for buying EF-M glass and accessories though. Really anything in the Canon eco-system because I specifically got an EOS M + adapter to keep it all in one camp.



I'm right there with you. Right now I'm torn between ditching the M and its glass (and adapter) and going with an SL1, or waiting to see what kind of price I can import an M3 for. Leaning SL1 because they're available so cheap right now. Also because the EF-S 11-22 is available cheaper than the EF-M equivalent. While my wife seems ok with me continuing to acquire one set of fancy camera gear (5D3 and growing EF lens hoard), she draws the line at unbridled spending on a second camera with its own glass requirements.


----------



## Famateur (Feb 6, 2015)

Tinky said:


> Famateur said:
> 
> 
> > We okay now?
> ...



Good, good. Thanks! 

Having lived for years in some very remote and diverse places in this big world of ours (still haven't met many people who've ever heard of Mangaia or Patutahi), I appreciate the perspective and feel bad that my choice of words implied otherwise.


----------



## Famateur (Feb 6, 2015)

tacoman said:


> I don't want to say Canon bungled this, because they might be right just competing for group A. But *I have to wonder if Canon, and Nikon,* which has taken a different, but also questionable mirrorless path, *are risking the future* by letting some of their most avid customers consider other systems. Once someone has an investment in both camps (as I do with Canon SLR and Sony mirrorless), you run the risk that they eventually decide to go with one and don't pick yours.



And that is the question: Is Canon wise in its market savvy and conservative long-term approach, or is it an over-confident and/or short-sighted Kodak? Time will tell...


----------



## Tinky (Feb 6, 2015)

tacoman said:


> I don't want to say Canon bungled this, because they might be right just competing for group A. But I have to wonder if Canon, and Nikon, which has taken a different, but also questionable mirrorless path, are risking the future by letting some of their most avid customers consider other systems. Once someone has an investment in both camps (as I do with Canon SLR and Sony mirrorless), you run the risk that they eventually decide to go with one and don't pick yours.



Today you can be quite smug, perhaps for the first time in 5 years.

Unequivocally. Canon is where it is at. Right now. Tomorrow. And probably most of next week.

We all asked 'what are you doing Canon'.

Today they answered.

The M is part of that system, it's the very definition of a systemic camera. A gateway camera. A back up camera.

All those folk who need 50MP, are they going to ditch their Hassleblads and Leafs? (the ones they already have because they NEED 50mp)

Only arguably Nikon can match Canon in terms of versatility, in terms of maturity of range, in terms of backwards compatability.

Not that it ever bothered me too much because the cameras I own probably do their bit vastly better than I do my bit, but Canon users, even if we never buy a 5DS, can hold their heads high.. we are in the best system.

The emporer has discarded his sony a7 robes, and all those folk who declared Canon dead and sold up can look glumly at the 36MP pinnacles of their new system with Envy.

Because it is all about the megapixels. Nothing else matters.

(insert tongue into cheek when it feels appropriate)


----------



## tomsop (Feb 6, 2015)

I bought my M at a time that I was very unimpressed with upgrade options on my Rebel xsi. I initially passed on the M too because of the AF slowness until they had the fire sale so I picked it up while waiting for a better camera. I took my EOS-M on a vacation and half the pictures were blurry because I was in low light or taking pics of my kids. 

I bought the M and then added two lenses so now I feel I am invested in it and I was hoping the M3 would have dual pixel AF and a view finder because lack of viewfinder was another problem I had on my trip. 

The M takes great pics during daylight of buildings and monuments and landscape or flowers, etc or even people but forget the videos or moving kids or even indoor shots. I am also in the USA. What will I do now? I am tired of stop gap purchases - I want to buy a camera that will do what I need at a reasonable price. I don't want to get the rebel because I like my compact M but I know I am losing good shots so that is frustrating - the head says get the new Rebel or 70d (most of the 7 Mark II at a discount) but the heart says wait a few months and ebay an M3 import. I don't want to leave Canon because I already have $1K invested in EF and EF-M glass.

For right now I am not going to make any decisions - I will watch the review videos (with a focus on how the EVF adapter works and AF improvements) and go from there. 

With this background and usage - I was wondering what others would recommend I do.


----------



## Stu_bert (Feb 6, 2015)

I'd offer to export to you guys in NA, but the price from the UK would be exorbitant, and importing from HK sellers is likely to be far more cost effective....

Warranty is a consideration. It's never stopped me purchasing from USA or Canada, and I doubt it will in future... If you guys could just lower the dollar price please


----------



## tcmatthews (Feb 6, 2015)

Famateur said:


> As I think about this more, it seems that it might help to make a distinction between two very different segments of the mirrorless market:
> 
> *Group A: *Those who have never owned a DSLR and currently shoot with a camera phone or Powershot but would like to take their photography to a higher level.
> 
> ...



This is a fair assessment. The problem is Group A already had cheaper similarly featured products. The original EOS M had the features on par with the year old Nex5n. Or possibly even a Nex3. It was priced similar to a Nex6 a camera that appeals to Group B. These Sony Nex cameras were wildly available at retail outlets all over the place. I have never seen an EOS-M in a retail outlet. Group A has never seen a Canon EOS-M. In fact some in group B have never even seen one. 

How can you sell product to group A if they never know it exits?


----------



## Luds34 (Feb 7, 2015)

Famateur said:


> tacoman said:
> 
> 
> > I don't want to say Canon bungled this, because they might be right just competing for group A. But *I have to wonder if Canon, and Nikon,* which has taken a different, but also questionable mirrorless path, *are risking the future* by letting some of their most avid customers consider other systems. Once someone has an investment in both camps (as I do with Canon SLR and Sony mirrorless), you run the risk that they eventually decide to go with one and don't pick yours.
> ...



The $64,000 question really. Well said, could not agree with you more. And of course we talk of Canon and their marketing decisions as if they are coming from a single, unified conscience. Honestly I'm sure there is plenty of dissent and disagreements internally. And they know, at best everything is an educated guess and no one can predict with certainty the future... aka how the market will respond, how competition responds, etc. etc.

As a current M owner I'm a bit disappointed in this lack of development/support for the North American market. Thankfully the investment in the M and lenses has been small. I'd like to think they will come around eventually. However that doesn't help me today. My own $64,000 question? What do I do for a "portable out with the fam" type of kit. The type of kit that exists when the outing is not photography as the top priority. I really hate to invest into two systems but I'm really considering the Fuji X system. It does not help I've got tons of (photography ear-marked) money burning a hole in my pocket.


----------



## Luds34 (Feb 7, 2015)

tomsop said:


> I bought my M at a time that I was very unimpressed with upgrade options on my Rebel xsi. I initially passed on the M too because of the AF slowness until they had the fire sale so I picked it up while waiting for a better camera. I took my EOS-M on a vacation and half the pictures were blurry because I was in low light or taking pics of my kids.
> 
> I bought the M and then added two lenses so now I feel I am invested in it and I was hoping the M3 would have dual pixel AF and a view finder because lack of viewfinder was another problem I had on my trip.
> 
> ...



Honestly, as an M and a 70D owner... pick up a 70D. I have a (now) 3 year old and as "much improved" as the M3 I'm guessing will be, all the mirrorless options are still catching up to decades of experience and fine tuning that the likes of Nikon and Canon have done in sports and action photography. I don't have all the experience with all the various systems. I probably read more then is healthy on camera systems and even watch one too many you tube videos. (I know, get out and shoot but it's cold and winter here) However with that said, with my experiences, knowledge etc. I think that even today, the best way to literally take snapshots of kids running around is with a decent DSLR. I'm sure hardcore wildlife/sport photographers will laugh at this (with the challenging situations they shoot). But It still amazes me how well the camera (70D) can track my daughter running away/towards me and just nail the focus, even with a very a narrow DOF. It is not uncommon for me to be shooting her with an 85mm lens at f/2.0 and I'll fire off a sequence using AI Servo and I could make a flip book of motion sequences with the shots.

I know they are getting their (mirrorless options) but today, I still feel for focus tracking and responsiveness, the DSLR ecosystems still hold the edge. And frankly it's a "if it ain't broke don't fix it" sort of mentality with all those years developing/tweaking that has made them "just work".


----------



## fxk (Feb 7, 2015)

Famateur said:


> fxk said:
> 
> 
> > Tinky said:
> ...


I was speaking about United States-ians in general (even the claim of "American" leaves me wanting). We have a long, well earned history of arrogance in the world. 
As for you particularly, I have no beef. No condescension. No apology on your behalf. You've made your point and made an honest, decent effort at clarification. I'm more concerned that we as a people are so arrogant (myself included), not that you pointed it out (inadvertently). Did I do the best job stating the case? Probably not. It's past.


----------



## Tinky (Feb 7, 2015)

All done with, no harm meant, none done.

I will continue to offend, often unwittingly.


----------



## Rocky (Feb 7, 2015)

Amazon.jp is selling M3 with EVF for about $500. Has anybody done business with Amazon in Japan from the U.S. ? Will it ship to U.S.??


----------



## DRR (Feb 7, 2015)

Amazon Japan does not ship to USA.

However you can use a forwarding service like Tenso - http://www.tenso.com/en/

I will say, I am not in the market for an M3 but $500 for the body and EVF, I feel is about in the right price range for this camera.


----------



## GrumpyMoose (Feb 7, 2015)

Luds34 said:


> Famateur said:
> 
> 
> > tacoman said:
> ...



Well, in my case at least it's the latter. As I posted earlier, I've spent the last few months selling several thousand dollars worth of Canon gear to fund my transition to one of their competitors (Sony). Like you, I kept the M because the investment was relatively small and it gave me a chance to wait to see what Canon would do on the MILC front. Now that they have firmly botched that IMO, this will likely end my relationship with Canon (save a few lenses like the TS-E I shoot adapted on my A7-R). And given all of the effort it took to switch systems, it's likely I won't ever go back either.


----------



## josephandrews222 (Feb 7, 2015)

Rocky said:


> Amazon.jp is selling M3 with EVF for about $500. Has anybody done business with Amazon in Japan from the U.S. ? Will it ship to U.S.??



Oh My.

Oh My.

M3 + EVF for about $500?

...the M3 alone for about $425 or so?

At that price, I would buy three of them--one for me and each of my two children.

How many CR Forum readers would buy an M3 body alone for $425 or so?

This no NA thing is beginning to make me mad...

EDIT: I checked amazon.jp

The site lists several packages and the body only is about 95% the cost of the M# + viewfinder.

$475?

I'm still in for 3...with a N. America warranty...


----------



## Rocky (Feb 7, 2015)

josephandrews222 said:


> Rocky said:
> 
> 
> > Amazon.jp is selling M3 with EVF for about $500. Has anybody done business with Amazon in Japan from the U.S. ? Will it ship to U.S.??
> ...


Based on Amazon.jp, there is only about $25 difference between with or without evf


----------



## Tinky (Feb 7, 2015)

it's a new reality of the dslr world that wasn't as true of film:

Bodies are temporal, expendable almost.

as sure as Canon were going to regain the bragging rights with the 5Dr, sonebody else will have something better out next week.

yeah, go on, switch to sony you clowns. good luck when sony abandon their mount (again) in two years.

It's all about the lenses. Now more than ever. And canon lenses only work right on canon bodies. And right now, canon bodies are looking pretty damn good.


----------



## tomri (Feb 7, 2015)

Now Canon has the technology to beat them all, with dual pixel AF that is better than anything out there in the mirrorless segments. After a long wait of several years they dare come to the marketplace with a mirrorless that omits this one all-important feature???


----------



## Rocky (Feb 8, 2015)

DRR said:


> Amazon Japan does not ship to USA.
> 
> However you can use a forwarding service like Tenso - http://www.tenso.com/en/
> 
> I will say, I am not in the market for an M3 but $500 for the body and EVF, I feel is about in the right price range for this camera.


Thanks, I check the website of Tenco, It cost around US$15 for EMS type of mail (2 to 3 days). Not bad at all.
Along the same line, If anybody is still interested in the 11-22mm EF-M. You can get in from Henry's (Canada)for about US$340 (including shipping via EMS), due the strong US$ against the Canadian $. 
Disclaimer: I do not work for Henry's.


----------



## Famateur (Feb 8, 2015)

fxk said:


> As for you particularly, I have no beef. No condescension. No apology on your behalf. You've made your point and made an honest, decent effort at clarification. I'm more concerned that we as a people are so arrogant (myself included), not that you pointed it out (inadvertently). Did I do the best job stating the case? Probably not. It's past.



Fair enough, and no harm done.  It's refreshing to be able to patch stuff up without it devolving into what often happens elsewhere on these forums. Cheers...


----------



## DRR (Feb 8, 2015)

At $500 for the body I have to say I'm very interested... I still wish the EVF was integrated though.

I'm still not buying now, but I'm certainly not ruling it out for the future.


----------



## sdsr (Feb 8, 2015)

tomsop said:


> With this background and usage - I was wondering what others would recommend I do.



The background/usage you describe provides the answer, doesn't it? Your use of "invest" suggests you don't want to sell your M equipment and there's nothing else you can attach a M lens to and use with AF etc. (or attach it to period - or is there? Maybe to M43 w/out electrical connections?); plus you seem to want to keep within the general size parameters of an M. Given all that, your best option is likely to import an M3, provided reviews suggest that it's fixed the problems you mentioned. (They drove me nuts and I sold mine not much more than a month after buying it - weirdly, I sold it for more than I paid for it.) 

The only alternative (aside from making yourself like what you have) is to ditch it and start over. If size really matters the new Panasonic LX100, a fixed-zoom more-or-less Micro 4/3 may be the best option, but I suspect its image quality won't be quite as good as an M's. Micro 4/3 MILCs can be pretty small, but as a system it's far from inexpensive. The Sony a6000 is a very good and very cheap aps-c camera, but how compact and cheap the system you build around it ends up could vary quite a bit (its cheap kit lens is small but nowhere near as good as, say, the 22mm EOS-M).

Good luck!


----------



## Hillsilly (Feb 8, 2015)

I can only assume that Canon USA suffered a large loss with the original EOS M and with the tightening of the camera market are reluctant to take many risks. And the segmentation of Eos-M sales is interesting - massively popular in Japan and much of Asia and Australia, not so popular elsewhere. (mirroring mirrorless sales overall.) 

Don't take that as being anti-North American. Canon USA would be looking at their previous Eos M sales along with sales data (or lack of sales...data) from Sony, Olympus, Panasonic, Fuji etc. They'd be checking the RRP and seeing where it sits with the competitors, plus comparing the systems - and the native Eos M system (lenses, flashes etc) is very limited in comparison. The only thing really working in Canon favour is their market dominance and their ability to "encourage" camera shops, department stores and other retailers to stock and push the camera. But I can sympathise with Canon USA who might feel that the M3 isn't enough of improvement to shift large numbers of buyers to offset the costs of stocking and efforts promoting it. This probably says more about the research conducted by and sensibility of many North American buyers than anything else. 

Its a pity, because this looks like a nice camera. Reviewing the specs, it doesn't seem to be lacking anything and has a lot going for it. I suspect it will be massively popular throughout most of the world and will help Canon with their recently announced goal of becoming number 1 in mirrorless sales.


----------



## spysu (Feb 8, 2015)

I have to say at $500 is a sweet point for me to order one even thru amazon jp & tenso solution.


----------



## Luds34 (Feb 8, 2015)

spysu said:


> I have to say at $500 is a sweet point for me to order one even thru amazon jp & tenso solution.



I agree, especially if one can snag the EVF for that price (or not much more) as well. I will be keeping my eyes open in the coming months and see what shows up on ebay.


----------



## canonvoir (Feb 8, 2015)

I would drop $500 on the M3 today. Much more than that and it doesn't make sense. I have been looking at Sony for a year now (for a landscape MP body) but wanted to wait to see what what coming. I feel I am set for full frame sports photography and the M I have lacks a lot. I want a smaller camera and I am hoping the M3 will give me a better sensor (the M sensor couldn't get much worse if Canon tried). Here is a Canon guy hanging on to hope. I also want a larger MP body. The hands on reviews and test for the 5DSR can't come fast enough.




josephandrews222 said:


> Rocky said:
> 
> 
> > Amazon.jp is selling M3 with EVF for about $500. Has anybody done business with Amazon in Japan from the U.S. ? Will it ship to U.S.??
> ...


----------



## Act444 (Feb 8, 2015)

spysu said:


> I have to say at $500 is a sweet point for me to order one even thru amazon jp & tenso solution.


Hmm...

If anyone does go this route, I'd like feedback on how smooth the process was!


----------



## Jamesy (Feb 9, 2015)

Act444 said:


> spysu said:
> 
> 
> > I have to say at $500 is a sweet point for me to order one even thru amazon jp & tenso solution.
> ...



I just stepped up and bought the EOS-M3 and EVF for 58,160 Yen (roughly $615 Canadian) plus the Tenso shipping service which will be roughly 50 USD.

If you go this route you need to submit information to Tenso to validate your identity. I just got the following email from them:

"This is Tenso.com
Thank you for submitting documentation as proof of your identity.

We have checked the documents you submitted and are happy to inform you that we have verified your application! You can now login to your My Page and complete payment for the international shipping and handling of any packages you may have at our warehouse.

Japanese law requires that we forward your first package to your verified address. After this first forwarded package arrives, you will be able to change the shipping address if you wish, to your work, school, or another address."

Looks like shipping it to my office will not work (as I usually do) this time around though


----------



## Hjalmarg1 (Feb 9, 2015)

Dylan777 said:


> Looks like the demand for Canon mirrorless system is not that great in US



Seems to be that I will stick to my Sony a6000 for a longer time. Canon disappoints me again.


----------



## LDS (Feb 9, 2015)

Famateur said:


> *Group A: *Those who have never owned a DSLR and currently shoot with a camera phone or Powershot but would like to take their photography to a higher level.
> *Group B:* Those who already own a DSLR and want a compact system that doesn't hold them back from their current level of photography.



Just I wonder which is the group more likely to buy a an interchangeable lens compact camera at that price point. In group A many people could be tempted to move to a DSLR if they plan to move their skills to an higher level, especially because the M would not be able to tackle some kind of photograph (macro, wildlife) unless trying the expensive M + EF lenses route.

While those already owning a DSLR - often deeply involved in photography and ready to spend - could like a smaller camera to use where a large DSLR may not be welcome, or just too uncomfortable - yet able to fit their system - the success of the SL1/100D may be attributed to this group also, as well as the former, because the camera can be appealing to both groups.

After all Canon aims the G1X and even the G7X as some kind of "professional" compacts, while the M3 is aimed at the "serious enthusiasts". Till now Canon delivered three M models, but instead of segmenting them to appeal to different groups, it looks it aimed all of them to what I'd call the "stylish group", those looking for a camera to differentiate themselves from other photographers, especially group A, ready to spend, but less demanding than group B. This would explain why it is offered also in different colors, uncommon for a camera that aims to be on the pro side more than the amateur one.
That would also explain why it has been more successful in some markets than in others, because the perception of what is a "stylish" device can vary among different markets - unless proper (and expensive) PR is able to establish one as such across them.


----------



## slvrscoobie (Feb 9, 2015)

The Google translate of the Amazon.jp product description is cracking me up:
Wifi - There
EVF - Okay 
Lol


Detailed information
Effective pixels	24.2 million pixels
Imaging element	APS-C
Screen size	3 inches
Vari-Angle LCD	No
Continuous shooting speed (frame in seconds)	4.2
Shutter speed	1/4000 seconds
AF point 49 points
Minimum / maximum imaging sensitivity (extended sensitivity)	ISO 100 ~ 25600
With finder Okay
Lens Mount Canon EF-M
WiFI There
Color Black


----------



## boogaloo (Feb 10, 2015)

Hey Jamesy. Good man I'm interested in doing the same myself. Could you tell, from the translation, when Amazon.jp expect to start shipping?


----------



## Cb33 (Feb 10, 2015)

boogaloo said:


> Hey Jamesy. Good man I'm interested in doing the same myself. Could you tell, from the translation, when Amazon.jp expect to start shipping?



On the Google translated Amazon.co.jp page it says "Release date of this product is March 31, 2015. 
Right now it is in the reservation."


----------



## MrJ (Feb 10, 2015)

Won't the menus and such when purchased from japan be in Japanese? Is there a way to change them to English?


----------



## Tinky (Feb 10, 2015)

As I recall mine were in English, but it's dead easy. Go to the canon website and find the english manual, use that to navigate the menus by position. Change it. Dead easy.


----------



## cliffwang (Feb 11, 2015)

MrJ said:


> Won't the menus and such when purchased from japan be in Japanese? Is there a way to change them to English?



I don't think there is a way to change the language for JP model. Most Japanese model electronics doesn't have English menu. That's why I don't buy Japanese model electronics even thought the Japanese model is cheaper nowadays(because of the exchange rate). The only Japanese model electronic we have is Sony RX100 because that's for my wife.


----------



## Tinky (Feb 11, 2015)

for japan version also read hong kong market. as an owner of a japanese m1 and previous owner of japanese market rebels... they have english as an option.


----------



## vjlex (Feb 12, 2015)

cliffwang said:


> MrJ said:
> 
> 
> > Won't the menus and such when purchased from japan be in Japanese? Is there a way to change them to English?
> ...



Sorry, that's not true. I've owned at least 7 different Canon bodies, all Japanese versions, and they change between Japanese and English fine. They only difference in language they have is that it is only 2 languages as opposed to the European and American releases which feature over a dozen different languages. But at least for the time I've been here, the Japanese version does have the ability to change to English.

I will say that in my early days in Japan, some of the equipment I bought such as the Japanese Sony HDCam and the Japanese HTC Hermes did not have the built in ability to switch language, and I had to find hacks and workarounds to do it. But I've never had a problem with finding English menus on my Canon cameras.

English menus won't be a problem on the Japanese M3. If you need a language other than English or Japanese though, your best bet is to get the European version I think.


----------



## Vivid Color (Feb 12, 2015)

shunsai said:


> cliffwang said:
> 
> 
> > MrJ said:
> ...



If the M3 is like the M, you shouldn't have any problem getting an English-language menu. A friend of mine and I each bought a gray-market EOS-M a few months ago when it was on an eBay fire sale. We each bought from the same company on the same day. Mine came with an English language menu up and running. Hers came with the Japanese menu. We put our two cameras next to one another so we could figure out where the language setting was on her camera. Once we did that, it was very easy to change the menu on her camera from Japanese to English. If both of our cameras had been set to Japanese, we would've probably just gone online to find photos of the menu options. That said, I do seem to recall that there were not as many language options on her model as there was on mine but we each had the language we needed.


----------



## Jamesy (Feb 12, 2015)

Cb33 said:


> boogaloo said:
> 
> 
> > Hey Jamesy. Good man I'm interested in doing the same myself. Could you tell, from the translation, when Amazon.jp expect to start shipping?
> ...



Amazon stated delivery dates as follows:

Delivery Date: Wednesday, 2015/04/01 - Friday, 2015/04/03


----------



## boogaloo (Feb 12, 2015)

James thanks for your advice. I have preordered too from Japan and will let you all know how it goes. I figure that even if there is a problem the evf cost saving is worth it.


----------



## Zv (Feb 13, 2015)

Vivid Color said:


> shunsai said:
> 
> 
> > cliffwang said:
> ...



I've bought all my gear in Japan as I live here and Canon has always had an English language option for cameras (AFAIK). You just need to navigate to the wrench icon and find the right place. Just download the English manual to figure out where it is. 

FYI - You can spot the language option easily by the following kanji 日本語 (Japanese). The first two characters are really easy to spot in a menu.


----------

