# 1Ds Mark IV & 5D Mark III [CR0.5]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 15, 2011)

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<strong>Spec lists

</strong>I just wrote in the last post that I wouldnâ€™t post detailed spec lists because theyâ€™re rarely, if ever true.</p>
<p>However, it looks like <strong>[<a href="http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_1DS_MkIV.html">NL</a>]</strong> received the same email we did. Iâ€™ll post the spec list now for your entertainment.</p>
<p><strong>5D Mark III</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>24MP</li>
<li>Pro grade AF (not 7D like)</li>
<li>2 stops better ISO than 5D mk II</li>
<li>Digic V</li>
<li>6 fps</li>
<li>New video codec, not Raw. MPEG 4:2:2, new video functions such as tracking focus in video mode</li>
<li>Compact body with improved weather sealed</li>
<li>Same introduction price as the predecessor</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>1Ds Mark IV</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>54MP (no low pass filter)</li>
<li>Decent 6400 ISO performance</li>
<li>Same AF as 1D Mark IV</li>
<li>14 stops DR</li>
<li>16 bit Raw file (mode to be confirmed)</li>
<li>Digic V</li>
<li>Limited new HD video function in comparison with the 5D III</li>
</ul>
<p>New GPS and wireless device accessories will be introduced around the same time.</p>
<p><strong>Other bits of information from the same email.</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>All current L lens Ã‚ can perform at the level of the 1Ds sensor resolution,there is no low pass filter in front of the sensor Ã‚ and there is Ã‚ digital on/off software switch to reduce moire.</li>
<li>Video function in the new 1Ds is not as Ã‚ complete Ã‚ as the one on Ã‚ the 5D mk II and due the massive data reading of the sensor there is Ã‚ no MPEG Ã‚ 4:2:2 coded.</li>
<li>It seems that in one of the prototype there was an option to shoot 16bit Raw Ã‚ files that this option cut Ã‚ down dramatically the fps.</li>
<li>Itâ€™s rumored that Canon will also announced one zoom and 2 prime lens with the Ds camera.</li>
</ul>
<p>As I said earlier, Iâ€™m not a big fan or believer of Ã‚ in-depthÃ‚ spec lists on cameras that are still more than a month away from announcement. If I didnâ€™t post this, Iâ€™d get a ton of emails since it appeared on another popular rumor site. Rock and a hard place sort of thing.</p>
<p>Check the previous post for something I think is a bit more believable. I do hope some of you can point out any obvious flaws in this spec list that I have overlooked. Have fun!</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
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## jsixpack (Sep 15, 2011)

It sounds good, but so good I'm a bit suspicious, more "wish list" like then "reality"...or at least it's too good and if I thought it were real I'd probably get disappointed when it isn't

JSP


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## bvukich (Sep 15, 2011)

Canon Rumors said:


> New GPS and wireless device accessories will be introduced around the same time.



Here's to hoping it's some sort of reasonably priced modular system; either in body, or in the case of the 5DIII, in a battery grip. Either GPS or wireless would easily fit in a form factor similar to an SD card. Maybe give two modular bays on 1-series cameras, one on 5-series body plus one additional in a battery grip. I could see at least four obvious applications for modules. GPS, WiFi, Data Verification, and High Volume Workflow (Bluetooth to associate a barcode scanner, etc., like the 7DSV).

Meh... Perhaps it makes too much sense to actually happen.


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## lagmaster_FUNK (Sep 15, 2011)

54MP?

Assuming square pixels, FF area of 864mm^2:
sqrt(864mm^2/54000000Px) = 4 micron pixels.
Not 4.##, but exactly 4. Suspicious.

Similarly, for 24MP sensor, pixels are _exactly_ 6 microns.


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## nexus (Sep 15, 2011)

just realease the next gen already ...  it's frustrating for a guy who invested more than 15k in lens to see that other manuf. have better options already released. 
that guy is a friend... and i see him getting sadder day by day...


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## Lawliet (Sep 15, 2011)

Citing the higher sensel count as reason for limited video seems odd. Its a CMOS, you can read only those sensels you really need.
Would be something different if we're talking about digital pixels, those also would allow for much greater DR. But not mentioning such a change in concept?


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## leGreve (Sep 15, 2011)

Without XLR and ability to record externally through HDMI it will remain an ambitious camcorder...

Nevertheless, it's interesting to see if the rumor holds up, 4:2:2 is a welcome improvement. Wont make me replace my Mk II for still photography though...


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## justicend (Sep 15, 2011)

with same introduction price as the 5D Mk II it will be the real deal. If both has Digic V then I wonder if 5D Mk III will be capable of 16-bit raw ?


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## kirillica (Sep 15, 2011)

54Mp? Why I don't believe in this?

P.S. Only medium format cameras (like Hassel) can produce such numbers with more-less acceptable noise. But they are not so fast as they could be and files are huge. I would devide this number by two or so for FF bodies.


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## lagmaster_FUNK (Sep 15, 2011)

dilbert said:


> lagmaster_FUNK said:
> 
> 
> > 54MP?
> ...



I understand that, but lets assume 54MP is between 53 and 55 MP - that makes the pixel size bounds 4.03 to 3.96 microns. For 23-25MP, thats 6.12 to 5.87 microns. These bounds are extremely narrow around the nice, even numbers given in the spec.
Existing Canon DSLR sensor pixel sizes are far away from any even/comfortable number - 5d ~6.40, 7d ~4.31, and 1d4 ~5.68
So, I'm just saying that the particular resolution numbers when presented as a pair like in this rumor, are dubious.


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## elflord (Sep 15, 2011)

Canon Rumors said:


> 5D Mark III
> * 2 stops better ISO than 5D mk II



Take a look at how DxOMark scores have evolved. I'm calling BS on this. The Nikon D5100 is only about 1 stop better than the aging (2003) Canon Rebel. The (2005) 5D classic still soundly beats any APS-C sensor, and the 5D mark II gained a little less than half a stop.


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## Lawliet (Sep 15, 2011)

A true two stop improvement is indeed implausible. But as there is no agreed upon definition/method of measurement that doesn't say a thing anyway.


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## ecka (Sep 15, 2011)

elflord said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > 5D Mark III
> ...


I think there might be a misinterpretation at this point - not 2 stops better ISO, but 2 stops higher ISO. Which means that sensitivity is expandable up to ISO 102,400


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 15, 2011)

ecka said:


> elflord said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...



That's how I interpreted it - 'better' as Canon defines it, i.e. 'more' and not 'higher quality'.


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## ecka (Sep 15, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> ecka said:
> 
> 
> > elflord said:
> ...


Exactly


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## wockawocka (Sep 15, 2011)

Maybe in order to separate the lines more the 1D will go full frame and the 1Ds Medium format.


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## ecka (Sep 15, 2011)

wockawocka said:


> Maybe in order to separate the lines more the 1D will go full frame and the 1Ds Medium format.


This doesn't make much sense to me. Medium format body would have to use different lenses on a different mount. Then why using the 1Ds name on it?
I agree that Canon should make MF cameras, even Pentax has one ;D


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## infared (Sep 15, 2011)

jsixpack said:


> It sounds good, but so good I'm a bit suspicious, more "wish list" like then "reality"...or at least it's too good and if I thought it were real I'd probably get disappointed when it isn't
> 
> Two things bother me about the 5D Mark III list...upon casual observation.
> 1. The terse comment "Pro Grade AF (not like 7D)....just the wording makes me think this is made up...like the guy has a beef about the autofocus situation (which is lackluster).. on the 5DMark II and is just venting.
> ...


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## ecka (Sep 15, 2011)

infared said:


> 2. When has ANY camera manufacturer introduced a new up-graded sucessor to a camera body with many new features and kept the price the same. Now that is a pipe dream.



How about 5D Mark II ? It has lots of new features (improvements) compared to 5D classic.


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 15, 2011)

ecka said:


> infared said:
> 
> 
> > 2. When has ANY camera manufacturer introduced a new up-graded sucessor to a camera body with many new features and kept the price the same. Now that is a pipe dream.
> ...



Wrong.  The 5DII wasn't the same introduction price as the original 5D. It was $500 cheaper...


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## moreorless (Sep 15, 2011)

dilbert said:


> lagmaster_FUNK said:
> 
> 
> > 54MP?
> ...



Thats true is we were talking about real advertised MP stats but what were considering here is whether there is any truth behind a rumour and the fact exact numbers like 4 and 6 crop up does tend to hint agenst that for me.


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## Chewy734 (Sep 15, 2011)

pro AF (e.g., better than the 7D?) on the 5D2? I'll take that. Specs look great, assuming they aren't made up.


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## infared (Sep 15, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> ecka said:
> 
> 
> > infared said:
> ...



Wasn't aware of that ...I bought back into digital with the 5D Mark II after after 15years of laying in wait. Sorry I didn't have my facts straight. My bad.


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## Chewy734 (Sep 15, 2011)

Maybe they can include a built-in GPS like they did on the new S100. I hate carrying a logger with me and then deal with the hassles in post-processing.


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## K-amps (Sep 15, 2011)

The specs on the 5D3 seem more plausible then the 1Ds, especially the MP's. If indeed true, the 1Ds could top out to $9-10k. It needs a lot more feastures to justify a 2-3x price premium. If the 5D3 does not have better Dynamic range then the 5D2... the used prices for the 5D2 are not coming down as fast as some people are hoping.

Canon pls release a 70-400mm f3.5 L for $2k :-* That would be money better spent then a new body with 10% more mp ...


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## Stuart (Sep 15, 2011)

Two stops - one for the mew processing engine and one for the sensor - 
_"DIGIC 5 analyses four times more image information to create each pixel, recording more detail and colour from a scene than ever before. Processing speed is also six times faster compared to the previous processor, efficiently managing the increase in scene information and simultaneously reducing the appearance of image noise by up to 75%"_


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 15, 2011)

Typically, when Canon says two stops better ISO, they are refering to jpeg output. A more powerful processor can indeed do a better NR job and produce jpeg images with less apparent noise at higher ISO settings, but when using RAW, that actual ISO improvement might be 1/2 stop, or 3/4 stop at best as it comes off the sensor.

This was the case with the 1D Mark IV, and was due to improved NR algorithms that could be powered by the dual Digic IV processors.


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## willhuff.net (Sep 15, 2011)

I'd be a little disappointed if they were only able to add 3mp to the camera after 3 years.


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## unfocused (Sep 15, 2011)

> The terse comment "Pro Grade AF (not like 7D)....just the wording makes me think this is made up...like the guy has a beef about the autofocus situation (which is lackluster).. on the 5DMark II and is just venting.



+1 

I think this rumor deserves the CR 0.5 rating. 

From what I've been able to tell reading this forum is that most 5D users would be very happy with the 7D autofocus. Seems a bit condescending to me to make a point of saying the 7D autofocus is not "pro grade." Certainly not something anyone connected to or knowledgeable about Canon would likely say.

I would not be surprised if the 5D and the 1Ds have different sensors. But, more than twice the mp? Sounds unlikely. 24mp seems too low for the 5D (I would expect the next 7D to have 24mp). This sounds like a "bigger and fewer pixels" fetishist wishing for the least possible increase in the 5D.

1Ds with "decent" 6400 and 5D with two stops more than current model or 102,400. That would likely mean the 5D would have better low light performance than the 1Ds. I don't think so.

All-in-all, this is the kind of spec list that anyone on this forum could come up with. Recycle and modify old rumors, make it somewhat plausible and then see if you can get it published.


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## K-amps (Sep 15, 2011)

willhuff.net said:


> I'd be a little disappointed if they were only able to add 3mp to the camera after 3 years.



Even though I don't think I want massive amounts of more mp, the following makes me think otherwise:

1) 2 days back I was casually shooting for a sporting practice and people were admiring the 70-300L, when someone asked me "How many Mp does your 5D have"... now before I could explain to this chap how mp's matter or not, the whole group went silent and was looking at me. This included a Guy with a 16mp PS... so it was kind of awkward explaining that I only had 12.7mps... cause he looked away unimpressed when I told him... err 12.7mp.. cause he did not want to listen how the 5D was better than the 16mp P&S.

2) I have recently taken a few pics of the full moon (moon HDR) and need to crop aggressively to get some detail since my 300mm on a FF can't do a whole lot in terms of zoom, and as cropping 12.7mp has it's limitations. Same with Macro... I think more mp's would be welcome as long as I can shoot at user selectable sRAWs / crops.


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## fred_jb (Sep 15, 2011)

The 5D III spec seems plausible to me as it is almost exactly what is expected of the Nikon D700 replacement.

Although I'm pretty happy with my 5D II, an increase to 6fps would make me want to upgrade as this turns the camera into much more of an all-rounder, and therefore more competitive with the current Nikon D700 and more importantly with the expected D800.

I've no doubt that 6fp is achievable given the info on Digic 5 which has come with the S100 compact release.

Fred


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## Picsfor (Sep 15, 2011)

Mmmmm, time to add my two penneth worth.

5D3 having better iso range than a 1Ds4? You mean like the 5D2 having a better iso range than the 1Ds3, by a country mile.
More mo's has been suggested - as an owner of 2x 5D2's I can assure you that by and large 21mp FF sensor is adequate for just about everything.
7D focusing really would be welcome. Any one who owns or has used a 5D or 5D2 will tell you the focusing is the achilles heel of these cameras.
6fp would really kill off the Nikon competition because it would make the camera a very good all rounder. Had 6.5fps on my 40D and found it more than adequate for most situations.

MP's on 1Ds4 sound just too high. A canon tech person told me earlier this year that Canon would be working to achieve a 50mp FF sensor in the future with considerably greater iso levels than currently available and a much better dynamic range that almost mats he's the human eye. The indications were that this was not a next generation goal...

For what you could put in a 1D body with newer technology is any ones guess...


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## amarlez (Sep 15, 2011)

> MP's on 1Ds4 sound just too high. A canon tech person told me earlier this year that Canon would be working to achieve a 50mp FF sensor in the future with considerably greater iso levels than currently available and a much better dynamic range that almost mats he's the human eye. The indications were that this was not a next generation goal...



But (if my math is right...) a 54 MP square sensor would give you 30 MP if you cropped it vertical or horizontal. That doesn't sound so unrealistic. It hasn't been talked about for a while, but with all the talk there was a couple months ago about different frame rates associated with selectable crop modes, I wouldn't be surprised if Canon were planning an approach where you had more control over which pixels on a sensor you could pick to be used.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 16, 2011)

So why does this rumor get 0.5 when:
1. it is logically consistent unlike many of the rumors which got CR1-CR1.5
2. if they do less than this they will get smashed by Nikon (is 1 series AF crazy? is 2 more stops DR crazy? is 6.3 fps crazy? Nikon already has that in a small FF for years and all they need to add is video and double the MP and who doesn't think they will for the D800?)

with the speed of Digic V this could have full sensor scaled down video for true $$$$$ Hollywood top digital movie camera quality (barring worse in cam compression and probably only 8bits per channel video).


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 16, 2011)

jsixpack said:


> It sounds good, but so good I'm a bit suspicious, more "wish list" like then "reality"...or at least it's too good and if I thought it were real I'd probably get disappointed when it isn't
> 
> JSP



yeah the only thing that makes on worry about it is that it actually makes perfect sense 
and it's the same specs a few of us have been tossing around for 2-3 years hoping to Canon's notice, almost to the T.

but hopefully it's not someone just packaging those nice wish lists sensibly and it's real


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## etto72 (Sep 16, 2011)

those specs make a lot of sense to me!

The only way to have both camera on the market without killing the sale of the flagship
is using different sensor! 

First of all because you don't want again give to the 5D a poor AF !! enough of that!!!
than,if you want to keep the great high iso movie profile that the 5D had,you can't pack to many mp on the sensor and I don't think that after 4 years a 3 or 10mp increase will push the Ds mk II owner to update

I don't see 54mp bee to high for our day sensor tech
2 years old 7D sensor on a full camera will give about 46mp! and that sensor perform really well at iso 3200 and very decently at iso 6400

The only think i can't believe is that in the Dlsr 9000$ flagship Canon can't add Mpeg codec 4 2 2 !!!!
....but of corse in the other hand the 5D is the movie flagship Dslr


I just hope its true!!
;D ;D



amarlez said:


> > MP's on 1Ds4 sound just too high. A canon tech person told me earlier this year that Canon would be working to achieve a 50mp FF sensor in the future with considerably greater iso levels than currently available and a much better dynamic range that almost mats he's the human eye. The indications were that this was not a next generation goal...
> 
> 
> 
> But (if my math is right...) a 54 MP square sensor would give you 30 MP if you cropped it vertical or horizontal. That doesn't sound so unrealistic. It hasn't been talked about for a while, but with all the talk there was a couple months ago about different frame rates associated with selectable crop modes, I wouldn't be surprised if Canon were planning an approach where you had more control over which pixels on a sensor you could pick to be used.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 16, 2011)

Lawliet said:


> Citing the higher sensel count as reason for limited video seems odd. Its a CMOS, you can read only those sensels you really need.
> Would be something different if we're talking about digital pixels, those also would allow for much greater DR. But not mentioning such a change in concept?



No, because even dual digic V doesn't sound like it would have the power to perfectly down sample the entire sensor if it were to be more than 36MP and yet the 5D3 at 24MP it just, just might be able to do that in 24fps mode. That would make the video quality insanely better than now (especially if they also improved the compression just a little).

And reading out 54MP so fast might burn out the chip anyway until they find even better cooling and high efficiency or make for poor quality stills with high speed amps or something.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 16, 2011)

kirillica said:


> 54Mp? Why I don't believe in this?
> 
> P.S. Only medium format cameras (like Hassel) can produce such numbers with more-less acceptable noise. But they are not so fast as they could be and files are huge. I would devide this number by two or so for FF bodies.



It makes perfect sense.
Canon has said they want to take on MF for a long time.
They love market segmentation and but need the the 5D line to become a lot more than a glorified rebel with big sensor and this allows for that and the 1D line is protected by being 10fps at least instead of just 6.3fps.
Who would keep buying an $8000 whatever 1Ds at this point? How do they keep the 5D bodies low spec and not soon get killed by Nikon?

The 1D5 can go FF eventually and be the super fast FF. The 5D can be the super advanced amateur and pro who can manage to live without full on sports 10fps but still get a solid 6.3fps. The 1Ds can be a really slow but super high MP cam with slow reads for more valid bits and tons of MP.

Only thing is it sounds like it all makes too much sense....


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 16, 2011)

elflord said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > 5D Mark III
> ...



Maybe they just mean mostly low ISO DR? Heck the Nikon cams ALREADY 2 stops better DR than the 5D2!


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## DuLt (Sep 16, 2011)

Wouldn't it make sense a new digic V line-up as this:

- 1D: Pro camera, tons of mp for studio, 10 fps for sports (in crop mode);
- 5D: Studio camera, low-light photography;
- 7D: Sports camera with 1D AF.

I'm discarding the XXD, XXXD, XXXXD, because they will most likely be a strip down 7D (less thoughness, less buttons, less everything).


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## AG (Sep 17, 2011)

Curious thought. 

The Power Shots just got released and they have the 12.1 version of the D5 processor in them.

Taking them as being a 1/2 sized sensor and then expanding that to the size of a full frame, 24MP would seem feasible.

and for those complaining that its only a 3MP jump from the 5D2, if they do/are intending to make the camera video focused as some of the rumours have suggested, then they may have decided that 24MP was enough but give the camera better low light (the 2 ISO steps part) and put most of their efforts in getting that picture cleaner instead of trying to squeeze more MP in there. Make the most of what you have etc.

I could just be dreaming, but lets hope they announce it soon so we can all start speculating about the 5D4/6D or whatever comes next.
:


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## samirachiko (Sep 17, 2011)

I'm waiting this beautiful camera BUT if it will have more than 24 Mpx I will not buy it!!...  
A lot of Mpx is not good... absolutely... :'(


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## Tarrum (Sep 17, 2011)

What? You do realize technology is improving? Sure, there are always some people who do not need that many, but there are those who need it. And what if it has 25?


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## ABrianCDN (Sep 17, 2011)

If I may - This is from the 5D Mk III (alleged) spec:

"New video codec, not Raw. MPEG 4:2:2, new video functions such as tracking focus in video mode"

Does this mean that the "new" 5D would continue to use RAW for still images? (I really don't care much about the video side of things)


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## cbphoto (Sep 19, 2011)

First time post.

I've enjoyed the rumors for a few years, and, yes, I'd buy both of these camera bodies.


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