# Preorder: Canon EOS R5, Canon EOS R6 and new lenses



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jul 9, 2020)

> *Cameras*
> 
> Canon EOS R5 Body $3899
> Canon EOS R5 w/24-105mm f/4L IS USM $4999
> ...



Continue reading...


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## milkod2001 (Jul 9, 2020)

First of all: FIRST!!!    

Any update on EU pricing? We all know it can get pretty weird with EU pricing even if there is around 20% VAT included, wonder how it will play out. 

Canon EOS R6 Body $2499 sounds great but in EU pricing maybe €2800?Maybe a bit less?


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## fox40phil (Jul 9, 2020)

Since 14:00 (CET) there should be reviews on YT and at 19:00 there is the Canon announcement live stream !


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## korbar (Jul 9, 2020)

Already preordered. First time I've ever done that but I've been waiting since 2018 for this. lmao


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## sleepylamp (Jul 9, 2020)

First time to wake up @5am and preorder a camera!
Adorama gave estimate of July 30th but bh doesn't give, should be the same.
Hope the event is more packed but there's too much small talks, I'm going back to sleep.
Cheers!


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## barrytakespictures (Jul 9, 2020)

Pre-Ordered...time to get rid of my 7D2 and #FullFrameForever


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## tbintb (Jul 9, 2020)

I did the unthinkable.....I pre-ordered a camera! What’s wrong with me? Never thought I’d ever do something like that. Looking forward to that R5!


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## Chines (Jul 9, 2020)

milkod2001 said:


> First of all: FIRST!!!
> 
> Any update on EU pricing? We all know it can get pretty weird with EU pricing even if there is around 20% VAT included, wonder how it will play out.
> 
> Canon EOS R6 Body $2499 sounds great but in EU pricing maybe €2800?Maybe a bit less?


Edit: Pricing in germany https://www.foto-erhardt.de/canon-neuheiten.html


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## joestopper (Jul 9, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...



So, what is that major new feature of the R5 that was rumored a few dsys ago? Guess was it could be high-res mode with sensor shift. But that is not the case. 
Was just a rumor it seems.
Anyway, an amazing camera!


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## Chaitanya (Jul 9, 2020)

Those super teles are reasonably priced beyond expectation. Will rent one out and try it before spending money.


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## twoheadedboy (Jul 9, 2020)

Speaking as an R owner, there had better be focus stacking on the R5/6 lol


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## Eclipsed (Jul 9, 2020)

Preordered R5.


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## milkod2001 (Jul 9, 2020)

Chines said:


> Edit: Pricing in germany https://www.foto-erhardt.de/canon-neuheiten.html


Thanks for a link. 
€ 2,630.96 is not that bad, was expecting more, very nice.


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## xanbarksdale (Jul 9, 2020)

Just pre ordered the R5...I’ve never been this excited for a camera release since I got into photo/video 15 years ago!


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## Jstnelson (Jul 9, 2020)

Preordered the R5 on Amazon. Will preorder the grip and another battery as soon as the Amazon links start working for them!


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## DT3019 (Jul 9, 2020)

Pre-order price is AUD$7,099 in Australia according to “canon.com.au“ website! Yes, this includes the 10% GST or federal sales tax of Australia. But, OMG... I am sure it’s worth every cent, but, goodness me, good luck finding both professionals and advanced amateurs with the cash to buy these in the COVID era!

Around AUD$5,499 to AUD$5,699 may have been a little more palatable! In a time where ‘pro-work’ is drying up, newspapers are shutting down and people are losing their jobs - these will not sell like hot cakes!


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## LensFungus (Jul 9, 2020)

Prices body only in Germany:
R5: 4.385,58€
R6: 2.630,96€


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## iheartcanon (Jul 9, 2020)

LensFungus said:


> Prices body only in Germany:
> R5: 4.385,58€
> R6: 2.630,96€


And only 3 week waiting time for the R5 and 6 weeks for the R6, not too bad


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## justaCanonuser (Jul 9, 2020)

R6's low light performance really must be stellar. I thought that immediately when Canon announced their new narrow aperture tele zooms, that they boldly rely on good high ISO images.


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## justaCanonuser (Jul 9, 2020)

LensFungus said:


> Prices body only in Germany:
> R5: 4.385,58€
> R6: 2.630,96€


As I expected: > 4k Euro introduction price for the R5.


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## bitm2007 (Jul 9, 2020)

£4199 for the R5 in the UK (£600 more than the release price of the of 5D IV), and as a pro landscape photographer what would I gain for that ? I use a tripod so 8 stops IS is no advantage, I shoot stills so 8k isn't either, I wait for the moment so 1 FPS is enough, the megapixel jump isn't big enough to make a significant difference to the images I produce, smaller, lighter and presumably less robust are all disadvantages in my book. Unless there is a massive jump in DR, the only significant advantage I'm seeing here for my type of work is the ability to view what you have just captured in-camera, and that comes at the expense of an optical viewfinder. To tempt me into mirrorless you are going to have to produce a cheaper camera where I'm not paying for a feature I'm not going to use Canon. Fingers crossed there is a R5L that more suited to the landscapes amongst us.


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## iheartcanon (Jul 9, 2020)

andthe R6 has the sensor dust cover like the R and R5


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## David_E (Jul 9, 2020)

Done, R5 , spare batteries, and the whatchacallit super memory card, from B&H.


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## PixelTrawler (Jul 9, 2020)

Local store in Dublin has it up for €4849 which is insane. Actually the other main store here has it up for the same price. 5d Mark IV launched at €4300


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## addola (Jul 9, 2020)

Since they are up for pre-order, is the full specification sheet available anywhere? I can't find it!


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## iheartcanon (Jul 9, 2020)

The BG-R10 battery grip is available and compatible with both the R5 and the R6.


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## David_E (Jul 9, 2020)

bitm2007 said:


> £4199 for the R5 in the UK (£600 more than the release price of the of 5D IV), and as a pro landscape photographer what would I gain for that ? I use a tripod so 8 stops IS is no advantage, I shoot stills so 8k isn't either, I wait for the moment so 1 FPS is enough, the megapixel jump isn't big enough to make a significant difference to the images I produce, smaller, lighter and presumably less robust are all disadvantages in my book. Unless there is a massive jump in DR, the only significant advantage I'm seeing here for my type of work is the ability to view what you have just captured in-camera, and that comes at the expense of an optical viewfinder. To tempt me into mirrorless you are going to have to produce a cheaper camera where I'm not paying for a feature I'm not going to use Canon. Fingers crossed there is a R5L that more suited to the landscapes amongst us.


Sorry, but we’re past talking about price and are now in the _when will it be here_ phase.

And don’t look for Canon or anyone else to build a model for every niche.


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## PixelTrawler (Jul 9, 2020)

bitm2007 said:


> £4199 for the R5 in the UK (£600 more than the release price of the of 5D IV), and as a pro landscape photographer what would I gain for that ? I use a tripod so 8 stops IS is no advantage, I shoot stills so 8k isn't either, I wait for the moment so 1 FPS is enough, the megapixel jump isn't big enough to make a significant difference to the images I produce, smaller, lighter and presumably less robust are all disadvantages in my book. Unless there is a massive jump in DR, the only significant advantage I'm seeing here for my type of work is the ability to view what you have just captured in-camera, and that comes at the expense of an optical viewfinder. To tempt me into mirrorless you are going to have to produce a cheaper camera where I'm not paying for a feature I'm not going to use Canon. Fingers crossed there is a R5L that more suited to the landscapes amongst us.



This is my take also. Love my 5d Mark IV, and I’d love to go mirrorless with higher resolution. But I’ll never use the video features, which is a huge part of the cost. Exciting camera all the same...


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## Billybob (Jul 9, 2020)

bitm2007 said:


> £4199 for the R5 in the UK (£600 more than the release price of the of 5D IV), and as a pro landscape photographer what would I gain for that ? I use a tripod so 8 stops IS is no advantage, I shoot stills so 8k isn't either, I wait for the moment so 1 FPS is enough, the megapixel jump isn't big enough to make a significant difference to the images I produce, smaller, lighter and presumably less robust are all disadvantages in my book. Unless there is a massive jump in DR, the only significant advantage I'm seeing here for my type of work is the ability to view what you have just captured in-camera, and that comes at the expense of an optical viewfinder. To tempt me into mirrorless you are going to have to produce a cheaper camera where I'm not paying for a feature I'm not going to use Canon. Fingers crossed there is a R5L that more suited to the landscapes amongst us.


If I were you, I'd be happy. DSLRs work for you. No temptation at all to blow the budget by buying these new toys. You can wait until your current cameras wears out--or Canon produces its 75MP body--before transitioning to mirrorless. 

Be happy!


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## BakaBokeh (Jul 9, 2020)

It's 2/3 AM in the morning here.

Just placed my pre-order on Amazon.

Now heading back to bed.


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## pmjm (Jul 9, 2020)

Instant R5 pre-order for me. I still have some unanswered questions though... This WILL work with the EF-RF mount converter, right? I'm sitting on $25K of EF glass and not being able to use that would be a dealbreaker. Can I use my LP-E6 batteries and AC-faux-battery-plug in this thing? What kind of bitrates are the various codecs in 8K and 4K? Can it film 8K to a UHS-II SD card or must you use CFexpress? 

Preordered on blind faith right now (yes I'm foolish but Canon has never let me down TOO badly, hehe), hopefully reviewers will post details like this before my preorder ships so I can catch any dealbreaking issues before it's too late.


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## BakaBokeh (Jul 9, 2020)

pmjm said:


> Instant R5 pre-order for me. I still have some unanswered questions though... This WILL work with the EF-RF mount converter, right? I'm sitting on $25K of EF glass and not being able to use that would be a dealbreaker. Can I use my LP-E6 batteries and AC-faux-battery-plug in this thing? What kind of bitrates are the various codecs in 8K and 4K? Can it film 8K to a UHS-II SD card or must you use CFexpress?
> 
> Preordered on blind faith right now (yes I'm foolish but Canon has never let me down TOO badly, hehe), hopefully reviewers will post details like this before my preorder ships so I can catch any dealbreaking issues before it's too late.


Most of the answers are available.
Adapter will work.
Old batteries will work.
Up to 10 bit 4:2:2 for video
I suspect the 8K will need to go on CFExpress


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## iheartcanon (Jul 9, 2020)

Am I missing something, there has been no mention of video options in FHD?


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## StevenA (Jul 9, 2020)

Pre-ordered the R5 kit. Will likely pick up the RF 100-500 also. Does anyone know the release date on that lens? I can't find it anywhere.


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## pmjm (Jul 9, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> Most of the answers are available.
> Adapter will work.
> Old batteries will work.
> Up to 10 bit 4:2:2 for video
> I suspect the 8K will need to go on CFExpress



Thanks for all that! Regarding the codecs... What I'm really looking for is bitrate information for RAW, All-I and APB. Hopefully it's not still using MJPEG like the 1DX2 and 5D4. The 90D does 4K in 120 Mbps which was a bit low for my tastes. H.264? H.265 (hopefully this is an option because it's amazing using it on the newer Fujifilms)?


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## WriteLight (Jul 9, 2020)

joestopper said:


> So, what is that major new feature of the R5 that was rumored a few dsys ago? Guess was it could be high-res mode with sensor shift. But that is not the case.
> Was just a rumor it seems.
> Anyway, an amazing camera!


I'm guessing it was the 8 stops of IS...4 second hand-held stills. I think that rumor had been out there but it was incredible to see.


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## miketcool (Jul 9, 2020)

The new LP-E6NH Lithium-Ion batteries allow for in camera charging via USB. Canon mentioned an adapter and battery grip are needed for the R6 but not the R5 in the comments.


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## BakaBokeh (Jul 9, 2020)

pmjm said:


> Thanks for all that! Regarding the codecs... What I'm really looking for is bitrate information for RAW, All-I and APB. Hopefully it's not still using MJPEG like the 1DX2 and 5D4. The 90D does 4K in 120 Mbps which was a bit low for my tastes. H.264? H.265 (hopefully this is an option because it's amazing using it on the newer Fujifilms)?


It's H.265 and RAW


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## WriteLight (Jul 9, 2020)

Got my first-ever pre-order in as well, for the R5. 7:04am CST right as it was added to B&H. So excited & really glad that they managed such a quick turnaround on release with all the pandemic-related issues other companies have been having.


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## dichterDichter (Jul 9, 2020)

Im thinking about the R6 + RF 70-200 2.8 + RF/EF Adapter for my older lenses. Is there still a cashback from Canon?


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## hne (Jul 9, 2020)

PixelTrawler said:


> Local store in Dublin has it up for €4849 which is insane. Actually the other main store here has it up for the same price. 5d Mark IV launched at €4300


In Sweden it's over €5000 (incl. vat) for body only. I held off on the 5DmkIV until it dropped under €3000. That'll take some time with this beast...


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## joestopper (Jul 9, 2020)

Chaitanya said:


> Those super teles are reasonably priced beyond expectation. Will rent one out and try it before spending money.



Certainly great price per focal length.
But they will likely have heavy vignetting.
There will be lots of room for the RF big whites ...


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## Mark3794 (Jul 9, 2020)

Ahhhh i'm loving sony fanboys telling me that specs don't matter for photography


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## YuengLinger (Jul 9, 2020)

joestopper said:


> Certainly great price per focal length.
> But they will likely have heavy vignetting.
> There will be lots of room for the RF big whites ...


I thought heavy vignettes are more often associated with WIDE apertures?


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## derpderp (Jul 9, 2020)

I hate to say it but... Canon is *******!


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## 6degrees (Jul 9, 2020)

R5 + RF 85mm F1.2 is about $6600, close to Leica level expense. Really? Canon is on the same expense level as Leica? And people are cheering? What a joke.


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## Nolastills (Jul 9, 2020)

20 FPS in electronic shutter live view only like the 1DX. Also electronic shutter not in live view is not completely silent. Peter McKinnon has video posted on YouTube. No idea yet of rolling shutter or banding with LED of CFL lighting which only Sony A9 can handle.


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## drama (Jul 9, 2020)

RIP Canon (s website)


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## joestopper (Jul 9, 2020)

YuengLinger said:


> I thought heavy vignettes are more often associated with WIDE apertures?



True, by design more critical on the wide side. But, again, I would be very surprised if that extending design would come without noticeable vignetting.


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## PixelTrawler (Jul 9, 2020)

hne said:


> In Sweden it's over €5000 (incl. vat) for body only. I held off on the 5DmkIV until it dropped under €3000. That'll take some time with this beast...


Hopefully e-infinity have it in stock in a few months for much less... they currently have the Sony a7iv for €2500, its 4000 locally. 
I know itll be a grey import but that’s a big saving.
I bought my 5d locally but I got an 80d as a backup from e-infinity. Was new apart from an asian plug on the charger...


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## RayValdez360 (Jul 9, 2020)

PixelTrawler said:


> This is my take also. Love my 5d Mark IV, and I’d love to go mirrorless with higher resolution. But I’ll never use the video features, which is a huge part of the cost. Exciting camera all the same...


how is that true when the r6 is damn near 90 percent of the 1dx iii at less than half the price. Video is mostly software. The same way u can shoot 4k and raw on a 5d mark II due to FREE hacked software. Canon is finally unlocking it for us because of strong competition and decreasing camera sales.


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## RayValdez360 (Jul 9, 2020)

pmjm said:


> Thanks for all that! Regarding the codecs... What I'm really looking for is bitrate information for RAW, All-I and APB. Hopefully it's not still using MJPEG like the 1DX2 and 5D4. The 90D does 4K in 120 Mbps which was a bit low for my tastes. H.264? H.265 (hopefully this is an option because it's amazing using it on the newer Fujifilms)?


mjpeg been died when the eos r camera out.


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## highdesertmesa (Jul 9, 2020)

derpderp said:


> I hate to say it but... Canon is *******!



My wallet is *******!


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## goldenhusky (Jul 9, 2020)

anyone know the buffer depth of the R5 and R6?


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## 1D4 (Jul 9, 2020)

WriteLight said:


> Got my first-ever pre-order in as well, for the R5. 7:04am CST right as it was added to B&H. So excited & really glad that they managed such a quick turnaround on release with all the pandemic-related issues other companies have been having.



It actually went up on B&H right at the top of the hour. Got my order for the R5 + 100-500 in at 8:01ET, after refreshing the pages quite a bit around midnight, 3am and finally 8. Hoping that it's good enough to get me in with the first batch, because I have an immediate need


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## mpmark (Jul 9, 2020)

Im not one of the ones that will blindly without non bias reviews buy this camera, which you'll start seeing them pop up soon on Youtube from the regulars. Only then will I order this camera and decide whether its actually worth it.


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## WriteLight (Jul 9, 2020)

1D4 said:


> It actually went up on B&H right at the top of the hour. Got my order for the R5 + 100-500 in at 8:01ET, after refreshing the pages quite a bit around midnight, 3am and finally 8. Hoping that it's good enough to get me in with the first batch, because I have an immediate need


Yeah, the kit package was up first. I'm with you - I hope we made the first batch!!


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## 1D4 (Jul 9, 2020)

WriteLight said:


> Yeah, the kit package was up first. I'm with you - I hope we made the first batch!!



Good luck! After being on backorder lists at B&H for 6+ months before, I don't take anything for granted anymore. I stumbled through checkout for about 15 seconds, and it felt like an eternity


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## DBounce (Jul 9, 2020)

I preordered earlier today... now the wait begins


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## StevenA (Jul 9, 2020)

mpmark said:


> Im not one of the ones that will blindly without non bias reviews buy this camera, which you'll start seeing them pop up soon on Youtube from the regulars. Only then will I order this camera and decide whether its actually worth it.



Peter McKinnon has a video up on the R5 showcasing mostly 4k 120fps. It looks glorious. He does talk about the heating issues when shooting at that resolution, but it's like after 20 minutes when it becomes a problem. I haven't seen/heard as much as I would like on the stills side but I don't have any reservations that'll it'll be outstanding. I've ordered it b/c I'm confident this camera combined with the RF lenses will leave me wanting nothing for the next decade.


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## Porsche (Jul 9, 2020)

I had a bunch of trade credit I wanted to use so I had to wait until 10am ET to get my order in.... hoping I didn’t burn myself on having to wait for the next batch


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## pauhana (Jul 9, 2020)

Both look like awesome cameras. Right now in no rush. interested in R6 so will see how it pans out before making move. Plus need to save some more $$$


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## David_E (Jul 9, 2020)

pmjm said:


> Instant R5 pre-order for me. I still have some unanswered questions though... This WILL work with the EF-RF mount converter, right? I'm sitting on $25K of EF glass and not being able to use that would be a dealbreaker. Can I use my LP-E6 batteries and AC-faux-battery-plug in this thing? What kind of bitrates are the various codecs in 8K and 4K? Can it film 8K to a UHS-II SD card or must you use CFexpress?
> 
> Preordered on blind faith right now (yes I'm foolish but Canon has never let me down TOO badly, hehe), hopefully reviewers will post details like this before my preorder ships so I can catch any dealbreaking issues before it's too late.


Relax. Yes, *your EF lenses* *will work* with the EF-RF adapter. I don’t know the answers to the rest of your questions. I ordered two spare batteries with my R5.


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## Chaitanya (Jul 9, 2020)

goldenhusky said:


> anyone know the buffer depth of the R5 and R6?


Here is the table for max burst of R6:


And same for R5:


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## herein2020 (Jul 9, 2020)

Jared Polin seems to have gotten a hold of full spec sheets for these cameras. There is still a recording limit, the R5 seems to have both a recording limit as well as a temperature recording limit to prevent overheating in certain video modes, and I can't find out if the video will record to both cards in the R6. I guess Panasonic was on to something when they added a cooling fan to their S1H.

I think I'll sit out the pre-order phase and wait until they are readily available to decide if the R6 will replace my GH5.

There were some interesting tidbits from the official Canon event such as the fact that the R6 is using a 1DXIII sensor variant and that the R6 is the low light monster of the series just like I said it would be due to its 20MP sensor. I will probably end up getting the R6 at some point, but the recording limit and not knowing if it will record video to both cards are two features that are important to me.


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## Kit Lens Jockey (Jul 9, 2020)

Porsche said:


> I had a bunch of trade credit I wanted to use so I had to wait until 10am ET to get my order in.... hoping I didn’t burn myself on having to wait for the next batch


Unemployment in the US is higher than it's ever been since the great depression. I think the number of people ready to drop 4 grand on a camera is a little lower than it would normally be right now.


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## puffo25 (Jul 9, 2020)

Hi, when I order the R5 camera body only, the EF/R lens adapter is NOT included correct? I think this is wired since with the R camera I think ? the adapter is coming as deafult.
Also what is the difference betwen the standard adapter and the one with the control ring mount in? https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1433718-REG/canon_mount_adapter_ef_rf_with.html

Thanks in advance.
Andrea


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## koenkooi (Jul 9, 2020)

Chaitanya said:


> Here is the table for max burst of R6:
> View attachment 191210
> 
> And same for R5:
> View attachment 191211



Wait, no HEIF in e-shutter mode?!?!


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## SteveC (Jul 9, 2020)

puffo25 said:


> Hi, when I order the R5 camera body only, the EF/R lens adapter is NOT included correct? I think this is wired since with the R camera I think ? the adapter is coming as deafult.
> Also what is the difference betwen the standard adapter and the one with the control ring mount in? https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1433718-REG/canon_mount_adapter_ef_rf_with.html
> 
> Thanks in advance.
> Andrea



Precisely that...one adapter has no control ring--it's essentially an extension tube--and the other one does have a control ring on it, so your EF lenses will essentially now have the control ring that many RF lenses come with. In the US the former is priced at $100 and the latter at $200.


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## privatebydesign (Jul 9, 2020)

Kit Lens Jockey said:


> Unemployment in the US is higher than it's ever been since the great depression. I think the number of people ready to drop 4 grand on a camera is a little lower than it would normally be right now.



i think that under appreciates the people who regularly have $4,000 of discretionary spending, income inequality, and the ‘normal’ market for $4,000 cameras. I think if you drew a Venn diagram the overlap would be shockingly small.


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## Eclipsed (Jul 9, 2020)

Kit Lens Jockey said:


> Unemployment in the US is higher than it's ever been since the great depression. I think the number of people ready to drop 4 grand on a camera is a little lower than it would normally be right now.


It's about the same as in 1982 and 2009, and rocketing back to normal. 90% of those who want jobs have them, and the ones out of work are mostly service/hospitality/retail workers and not buyers of $4000 camera bodies.

But I agree, literally, the number might be a LITTLE lower. But not enough to matter to Canon for pricing purposes.


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## Chaitanya (Jul 9, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> Wait, no HEIF in e-shutter mode?!?!


Probably might be some limitation due to the way sensor might behave with electronic shutter. Overall R6 is 1Dx MK3 for masses, I dont recall any Canon camera with such massive buffer..


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## koenkooi (Jul 9, 2020)

Chaitanya said:


> Probably might be some limitation due to the way sensor might behave with electronic shutter. Overall R6 is 1Dx MK3 for masses, I dont recall any Canon camera with such massive buffer..



I think it implies e-shutter is 12-bit and HDR-PQ refuses to do 12->10 conversions. Still, I plan to shoot RAW only, so it won't impact me.


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## herein2020 (Jul 9, 2020)

Eclipsed said:


> It's about the same as in 1982 and 2009, and rocketing back to normal. 90% of those who want jobs have them, and the ones out of work are mostly service/hospitality/retail workers and not buyers of $4000 camera bodies.
> 
> But I agree, literally, the number might be a LITTLE lower. But not enough to matter to Canon for pricing purposes.



I think even if it did matter to Canon they simply could not go any lower. I can't even begin to imagine the cost of R&D, marketing, product development, patents, etc. that it takes to bring a normal camera to the market; let alone cameras like these.


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## Kit Lens Jockey (Jul 9, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> i think that under appreciates the people who regularly have $4,000 of discretionary spending, income inequality, and the ‘normal’ market for $4,000 cameras. I think if you drew a Venn diagram the overlap would be shockingly small.


I would be shocked if there weren't at least some professionals that might have otherwise bought this new camera, but facing a dry spell of work, are deciding to hold off on new equipment purchases.


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## Kit Lens Jockey (Jul 9, 2020)

Eclipsed said:


> It's about the same as in 1982 and 2009, and rocketing back to normal. 90% of those who want jobs have them, and the ones out of work are mostly service/hospitality/retail workers and not buyers of $4000 camera bodies.
> 
> But I agree, literally, the number might be a LITTLE lower. But not enough to matter to Canon for pricing purposes.


It's not rocketing back to normal, it rocketed back from obscene levels to a level still above the great recession, because we went from a completely shuttered country to just one with very slow business. And another 1.3 million people just filed for first time unemployment claims this week. The gains we saw in unemployment the last couple of months were a dead cat bounce. It's not hard to improve when you're starting from an abysmal level.

It's true the ones out of work are not the ones buying $4000 cameras. But they may be the ones hiring photographers for various shoots. And if that business is drying up, pros are going to think twice about a new camera.

And anyway, I didn't say anything about it affecting Canon's pricing. They need to price it at what they need to price it at to recoup R&D, materials, and make a profit. It's just that I suspect launch sales of this camera will be a little softer than most big launches.


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## privatebydesign (Jul 9, 2020)

Kit Lens Jockey said:


> I would be shocked if there weren't at least some professionals that might have otherwise bought this new camera, but facing a dry spell of work, are deciding to hold off on new equipment purchases.


I wouldn’t necessarily disagree but I would also like to see a Venn diagram of ’professional’ user vs amateur user historical purchasing.


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## subtraho (Jul 9, 2020)

twoheadedboy said:


> Speaking as an R owner, there had better be focus stacking on the R5/6 lol



EDIT: Canon seems to have some kind of referrer blocking enabled, the link is here, under “Resources”, “*EOS R5 Improvements”:*









EOS R5 Body


High Image Quality featuring a New 45 Megapixel Full-frame CMOS Sensor. DIGIC X Image Processor with an ISO range of 100-51200; Expandable to 102400*1. High-Speed Continuous Shooting of up to 12 fps with Mechanical Shutter and up to 20 fps Electronic (Silent) Shutter. Dual Pixel CMOS AF II...




www.usa.canon.com





Both have it, see here, #58.

Pretty interesting document, it’s a reasonably detailed compilation of all the updates between the R and R5/6.


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## Kit Lens Jockey (Jul 9, 2020)

subtraho said:


> Both have it, see here, #58. https://downloads.canon.com/nw/camera/products/eos/product-1/pdfs/EOS-R5-improvements-part-1.pdf
> 
> Pretty interesting document, it’s a reasonably detailed compilation of all the updates between the R and R5/6.


Link's not working.  Is there a way to get to this pdf through Canon's website?


----------



## Kit Lens Jockey (Jul 9, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> I wouldn’t necessarily disagree but I would also like to see a Venn diagram of ’professional’ user vs amateur user historical purchasing.


That would be interesting to see how many pros buy these cameras as tools, vs how many rich folks buy them as toys.

But, suffice it to say I doubt Canon would run an entire division of their company just building toys for rich folks. Then again I guess any number of exotic car makers do it.


----------



## Wski (Jul 9, 2020)

Is IPB on the R6 a big deal? I’m on a T3i (I know, sorry). I’m a woodworker, so I focus primarily on stills for my online store and social media, but I’ve recently started making some income on YouTube since I started posting videos of my builds. I don’t know much about All-I compared to IPB, or if it’s even worth thinking about. I would like that “cinematic” look, and wonder about color grading IPB, etc. Thanks for any advice or information. I got up at 4:50am to watch the release. Woo.


----------



## subtraho (Jul 9, 2020)

Kit Lens Jockey said:


> Link's not working.  Is there a way to get to this pdf through Canon's website?



Updated my post, Looks like Canon blocks outside referrers from direct-linking images and documents.


----------



## WriteLight (Jul 9, 2020)

subtraho said:


> Updated my post, Looks like Canon blocks outside referrers from direct-linking images and documents.


Thanks for that. Good info.


----------



## amorse (Jul 9, 2020)

joestopper said:


> So, what is that major new feature of the R5 that was rumored a few dsys ago? Guess was it could be high-res mode with sensor shift. But that is not the case.
> Was just a rumor it seems.
> Anyway, an amazing camera!


It might have been some of the new DPRaw features. On the 5DIV DPRaw was introduced which allowed you to shift focus/bokeh just a little bit by using the readout from both sides of each pixel. It was not really well received by the masses, and seemed fairly impractical in use (IMO). The R5 seems to bring that back with a new ability to move the lighting on a subject's face after the photo has been taken, and right on the camera. My bet this was the surprise, but considering how little attention it has gotten, it may also suffer from the practicality issues of other DPRaw tools. Gordon Laing had a good description and demonstration of the feature - 




Either that, or Auto focus at F22, enabling using those TCs on even the F11 super-telephoto lenses. The more I think about that the more I find it interesting, even though again the practicality or output from that may be questionable. We'll have to wait and see!

Or then again, Canon is claiming an extra stop of DR over the 5DIV which, again, I'd be curious to see the output from.


----------



## Quackator (Jul 9, 2020)

Canceled my preorder.
The camera is great, but everything it excels at is currently canceled anyway.
No big sports events, no shows, no corporate events with hundreds of guests,
no big weddings. Second wave of Corona is coming in Central Europe, while 
the first wave isn't even peaking in the US. Not a good time to buy a camera for 
jobs that are suspended at the moment anyway.

Also, the R5 is too high in price for my liking. 3500 EUR would have been my
prediction and expectation.

So I skip this round, and probably go for a Blackmagic URSA 4k with EF mount
in the interim time.


----------



## StevenA (Jul 9, 2020)

Here's a video that goes the most in-depth (that I have found) about the R5 stills capabilities.


----------



## crazyrunner33 (Jul 9, 2020)

Was debating between the R6 and R5. R5 seems to be an amazing camera for a photographer who might take a quick clip here and there, but the overheating warnings in the manual are concerning on the video side. I assume the R6 likely won't have the issue since it doesn't have to do as much downsampling. It'll be interesting to see real world tests.


----------



## Kit. (Jul 9, 2020)

justaCanonuser said:


> As I expected: > 4k Euro introduction price for the R5.


What was unexpected was lowered German VAT (from 19% to 16% from July till the end of the year).
Otherwise it would have been 4.499,00 and 2.699,00.


----------



## Ian_of_glos (Jul 9, 2020)

David_E said:


> Sorry, but we’re past talking about price and are now in the _when will it be here_ phase.
> 
> And don’t look for Canon or anyone else to build a model for every niche.


Actually price is a very important consideration for most of us. Why is the camera so much more expensive in Europe than it is in the USA? Doesn't that seem unfair to you? The difference is far to great to be explained by VAT. The price for the body only in USA is $3,899 and the price for the body only in the UK is £4,199. At today's exchange rate the US price of $3,899 should be around £3,091. Add on the 20% VAT and the total price should be around £3,709, so why is it nearly £500 more than that? It is a huge difference.


----------



## tpatana (Jul 9, 2020)

On that buffer table, I tried to find the non-SD column for R6. Took me while to figure out why I can't find one.


----------



## bergstrom (Jul 9, 2020)

milkod2001 said:


> Thanks for a link.
> € 2,630.96 is not that bad, was expecting more, very nice.



will wait til it comes down to 1500e


----------



## Joules (Jul 9, 2020)

DT3019 said:


> w





Ian_of_glos said:


> Actually price is a very important consideration for most of us. Why is the camera so much more expensive in Europe than it is in the USA? Doesn't that seem unfair to you? The difference is far to great to be explained by VAT. The price for the body only in USA is $3,899 and the price for the body only in the UK is £4,199. At today's exchange rate the US price of $3,899 should be around £3,091. Add on the 20% VAT and the total price should be around £3,709, so why is it nearly £500 more than that? It is a huge difference.


Can we just let that go finally? It has been discussed to death. It is a different market, different customers, different regulations and so on. In the EU, customers are protected by stronger regulations, which is one of many things that go into pricing.


----------



## Jimworld (Jul 9, 2020)

A few days ago there was a rumor or statement from Canon that there was at least one more big surprise on the photography side of the R5. Everything I heard this morning was everything I have heard through the rumor mill. Did I miss something?


----------



## Richard Anthony (Jul 9, 2020)

I am a bit disappointed nothing has been said about the new flash units that are supposed to be coming , I was hoping Canon would announce them today along with everything else .


----------



## Jasonmc89 (Jul 9, 2020)

You know, it’s genuinely a sad day for me!

I’ve been following the development of Canons mirrorless journey from the beginning and I’ve been so excited about this day. To be so amazed at what an awesome camera this is, yet know that I’ll never be able to afford one is quite sad. 

Maybe one day.


----------



## tpatana (Jul 9, 2020)

Jimworld said:


> A few days ago there was a rumor or statement from Canon that there was at least one more big surprise on the photography side of the R5. Everything I heard this morning was everything I have heard through the rumor mill. Did I miss something?



The surprise was that there was no surprises.


----------



## Kit. (Jul 9, 2020)

Suchergebnisse


Willkommen im Canon Online-Shop! Entdecken Sie unsere breite Palette von Kameras, Druckern, Objektiven, Zubehör und vielem mehr.




store.canon.de





R5 is already sold out.


----------



## Kit. (Jul 9, 2020)

Jimworld said:


> A few days ago there was a rumor or statement from Canon that there was at least one more big surprise on the photography side of the R5. Everything I heard this morning was everything I have heard through the rumor mill. Did I miss something?


Have you heard about 8 stops of IBIS with a (non-IS) RF85/1.2?


----------



## drama (Jul 9, 2020)

or 4K HQ? didn't hear anything about that before hand, but oversampled 8k down to 4k I think is going to make fantastic footage. That to me sold the camera.


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 9, 2020)

milkod2001 said:


> First of all: FIRST!!!
> 
> Any update on EU pricing? We all know it can get pretty weird with EU pricing even if there is around 20% VAT included, wonder how it will play out.
> 
> Canon EOS R6 Body $2499 sounds great but in EU pricing maybe €2800?Maybe a bit less?


£4199 for R5


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 9, 2020)

pmjm said:


> Instant R5 pre-order for me. I still have some unanswered questions though... This WILL work with the EF-RF mount converter, right? I'm sitting on $25K of EF glass and not being able to use that would be a dealbreaker. Can I use my LP-E6 batteries and AC-faux-battery-plug in this thing? What kind of bitrates are the various codecs in 8K and 4K? Can it film 8K to a UHS-II SD card or must you use CFexpress?
> 
> Preordered on blind faith right now (yes I'm foolish but Canon has never let me down TOO badly, hehe), hopefully reviewers will post details like this before my preorder ships so I can catch any dealbreaking issues before it's too late.


Not sure if this is the same in other countries but in the UK, if you register with Canon CPS, you can get a free EOSR EF Adapter.


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 9, 2020)

goldenhusky said:


> anyone know the buffer depth of the R5 and R6?


Think I read somewhere it is 180 shots in RAW


----------



## 1kind (Jul 9, 2020)

dichterDichter said:


> Im thinking about the R6 + RF 70-200 2.8 + RF/EF Adapter for my older lenses. Is there still a cashback from Canon?


2.5% from Rakuten
1% from Mr Rebates


----------



## tpatana (Jul 9, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> Think I read somewhere it is 180 shots in RAW



R6 is basically infinite since it's only 20MPix.


----------



## jayphotoworks (Jul 9, 2020)

So more overheating info is out in case anyone needs to factor this into their buying decision that shoots like myself 80%/20% between film/stills. I expected this to be the case with absolutely no vents/fan cooling on the R5. I think this is why the S1H is fan cooled and why Sony recently decided to leak a rumor about "passive cooling with no fans." They all realize there is no way to dissipate that heat without some form of cooling. I had hoped Canon was able to implement some form of passive cooling as well. But the devil is in the details:






You can record for this long before you need to shut the camera off to cool down:

8K 20mins
4K60 35mins
4K Oversampled 30mins

Camera still has a 29:59min recording limit and will need to press record again after each 29:59 segment.

Once overheated, you need to shut down the camera 10 mins to gain another 3 mins in 8K or shut down the camera 10mins to gain another 10mins in 4K60.

There is an overheat control in the camera that allows the screen not be updated frequently or something to that affect which may help the above limits slightly.

Apparently 4K60 can run longer as it is pixel binned and not oversampled. I think you can perhaps shoot in crop mode and not run into overheating issues.

I had high hopes for this. Overheating in 8K is ok, as I can live with that, but it is in other modes as well. I was about to pre-order this, but this is a dealbreaker for myself. This won't work for shoot docs, and events/weddings. Cumulatively speaking, if I shoot a bunch of 4K uncropped, and then a few long segments cropped, etc. will I still bounce off the overheat shutdown limit? I'm also not sure why there is still a 29:59 limit on this body. Many other manufacturer's recent bodies no longer have this limit.


----------



## JayLT (Jul 9, 2020)

Pre-ordered the R5, extra battery and BG-R10 grip. I'm holding off on the CFExpress cards until I know this is something I'm going to be keeping. The specs for UHS-II RAW file buffer is good enough to get a good feel for the system at 80+ shots, much better than my current 90D and 5DS. Going to be a long 3-4 week wait...


----------



## StoicalEtcher (Jul 9, 2020)

Kit Lens Jockey said:


> Link's not working.  Is there a way to get to this pdf through Canon's website?


Oddly enough, it wouldn't load for me either, using Safari, telling me that it was not authorised to load on this server.... but when I tried the link via Firefox, all was good. I think it must be some Region limiting attempt (I'm in the UK).


----------



## BakaBokeh (Jul 9, 2020)

Wski said:


> Is IPB on the R6 a big deal? I’m on a T3i (I know, sorry). I’m a woodworker, so I focus primarily on stills for my online store and social media, but I’ve recently started making some income on YouTube since I started posting videos of my builds. I don’t know much about All-I compared to IPB, or if it’s even worth thinking about. I would like that “cinematic” look, and wonder about color grading IPB, etc. Thanks for any advice or information. I got up at 4:50am to watch the release. Woo.



Based on your use case, IPB should be just fine. I will shoot IPB just because it makes the files smaller.


----------



## StoicalEtcher (Jul 9, 2020)

jayphotoworks said:


> So more overheating info is out in case anyone needs to factor this into their buying decision that shoots like myself 80%/20% between film/stills. I expected this to be the case with absolutely no vents/fan cooling on the R5. I think this is why the S1H is fan cooled and why Sony recently decided to leak a rumor about "passive cooling with no fans." They all realize there is no way to dissipate that heat without some form of cooling. I had hoped Canon was able to implement some form of passive cooling as well. But the devil is in the details:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


I think there just isn't a good way to have both cooling AND 5D-level weather sealing unfortunately - at least not with significant other compromises .


----------



## BakaBokeh (Jul 9, 2020)

StoicalEtcher said:


> I think there just isn't a good way to have both cooling AND 5D-level weather sealing unfortunately - at least not with significant other compromises .


Just combine both elements and rain cool the camera. Problem solved.


----------



## David_E (Jul 9, 2020)

Ian_of_glos said:


> _Actually price is a very important consideration for most of us. Why is the camera so much more expensive in Europe than it is in the USA? Doesn't that seem unfair to you? The difference is far to great to be explained by VAT. The price for the body only in USA is $3,899 and the price for the body only in the UK is £4,199. At today's exchange rate the US price of $3,899 should be around £3,091. Add on the 20% VAT and the total price should be around £3,709, so why is it nearly £500 more than that? It is a huge difference._


I take it those are rhetorical questions. Perhaps it is because the U.S. is a poor country that has dropped into the 3rd world, $26 trillion short of having a penny?


----------



## jayphotoworks (Jul 9, 2020)

StoicalEtcher said:


> I think there just isn't a good way to have both cooling AND 5D-level weather sealing unfortunately - at least not with significant other compromises .



I agree. But pushing the video specs so boldly led me to believe Canon came up with some solution to handle this either via heat pipes or perhaps a vapor chamber. 10 mins of cooling gets another 3 mins of shooting in 8K. That gives you an idea on what not having any cooling solution leads too...

I absolutely cannot have the camera shut down on me in the middle of certain types of shoot. I'm sure others are in the same boat. While I have the same 29:59 limits on my A7III/RIII and A9 (which I don't shoot much video on), I have done 60mins (2 segments) of speeches in the evening after shooting 2 hours of pre-event b-roll without even seeing the overheat warning. 

Maybe Canon will come up with something in a firmware to help with this after the camera is released.


----------



## usern4cr (Jul 9, 2020)

I did preorder the R5 and 100-500 lens today. 

It seems that it'll be a month or 2 before I get it, so in that time I need to get the following, and wondered if you had suggestions on them (I take mostly raw stills, but may get into video somewhat) ? :
* CFExpress card, high speed & capacity (I'll only use 1 and leave it in the camera)
* SD card, (ditto)

I'll worry about the rest, including other lenses.

Other than a much lighter wallet, this morning was a great morning!


----------



## tpatana (Jul 9, 2020)

jayphotoworks said:


> I'm also not sure why there is still a 29:59 limit on this body. Many other manufacturer's recent bodies no longer have this limit.



Tax reasons.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 9, 2020)

Ian_of_glos said:


> Actually price is a very important consideration for most of us. Why is the camera so much more expensive in Europe than it is in the USA? Doesn't that seem unfair to you? The difference is far to great to be explained by VAT. The price for the body only in USA is $3,899 and the price for the body only in the UK is £4,199. At today's exchange rate the US price of $3,899 should be around £3,091. Add on the 20% VAT and the total price should be around £3,709, so why is it nearly £500 more than that? It is a huge difference.


As has been said, this has been discussed to death but here is a quick breakdown.
1/ VAT 20%
2/ Import duty 5%
3/ EU/UK enforced warranty obligations. For example I believe most EU countries have a 24 month warranty, the USA get 12 months, this is a real thing that costs Canon Europe money Canon USA doesn't have to spend.
4/ Economies of scale.

So take a price of $3,899, put 5% duty on that, $4094; put 20% VAT on that because VAT gets charged on the duty too, $4,913; throw in an extra 12month warranty for a total of $5013. Or £3,972. Now adjust for the economies of scale because the USA market is a lot bigger than the UK market so it is a lot more efficient and you are barking up the wrong tree. Get over it or get on a plane and get one from B&H, it will cost you $3,899 plus sales tax, or $4,245. You can claim the sales tax back but you are then liable to pay the UK duty and VAT and you are still out the price of the flight and accommodation and should you need warranty work you will probably have to ship it back to the USA.


----------



## Jemlnlx (Jul 9, 2020)

Probably a good time for those looking for used 5D Mark IV's and EOS R's. I am sure some people will be trading up...


----------



## Koemans (Jul 9, 2020)

jayphotoworks said:


> So more overheating info is out in case anyone needs to factor this into their buying decision that shoots like myself 80%/20% between film/stills. I expected this to be the case with absolutely no vents/fan cooling on the R5. I think this is why the S1H is fan cooled and why Sony recently decided to leak a rumor about "passive cooling with no fans." They all realize there is no way to dissipate that heat without some form of cooling. I had hoped Canon was able to implement some form of passive cooling as well. But the devil is in the details:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



29:59 is because of EU law. 30 minutes or higher, it is considered a camcorder so an additional tax is applied. For anything else, i agree. This seems like major dealbreaker.


----------



## jayphotoworks (Jul 9, 2020)

tpatana said:


> Tax reasons.





Koemans said:


> 29:59 is because of EU law. 30 minutes or higher, it is considered a camcorder so an additional tax is applied. For anything else, i agree. This seems like major dealbreaker.



The EU import duty expired July 1st 2019. This is why the S1H, A6400, A6600, etc. no longer have this limit. I should have clarified this in my post above..


----------



## ildyria (Jul 9, 2020)

SteveC said:


> Precisely that...one adapter has no control ring--it's essentially an extension tube--and the other one does have a control ring on it, so your EF lenses will essentially now have the control ring that many RF lenses come with. In the US the former is priced at $100 and the latter at $200.



Having an adapter with control ring, the convenience is totally worth the 100 bucks extra.


----------



## StevenA (Jul 9, 2020)

Kit. said:


> Suchergebnisse
> 
> 
> Willkommen im Canon Online-Shop! Entdecken Sie unsere breite Palette von Kameras, Druckern, Objektiven, Zubehör und vielem mehr.
> ...





jayphotoworks said:


> So more overheating info is out in case anyone needs to factor this into their buying decision that shoots like myself 80%/20% between film/stills. I expected this to be the case with absolutely no vents/fan cooling on the R5. I think this is why the S1H is fan cooled and why Sony recently decided to leak a rumor about "passive cooling with no fans." They all realize there is no way to dissipate that heat without some form of cooling. I had hoped Canon was able to implement some form of passive cooling as well. But the devil is in the details:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I'm just a bit ignorant about the demand for 8k I guess. I mean do we even have computers that we can process that much data on? Or screens to view it on? I would think 4k would be sufficient for most customers? And if they demand 4k recordings for an entire event then you'd likely not be looking at a camera system like this anyway?


----------



## BakaBokeh (Jul 9, 2020)

StevenA said:


> I'm just a bit ignorant about the demand for 8k I guess. I mean do we even have computers that we can process that much data on? Or screens to view it on? I would think 4k would be sufficient for most customers? And if they demand 4k recordings for an entire event then you'd likely not be looking at a camera system like this anyway?



Proxies is your friend.

I can't speak for everyone, but I don't plan to publish to 8K for the foreseeable future. What I would do, is shoot 8K if the situation calls for it. I did not like the EOS R's 4K crop, but would use it as a tool if I needed extra reach. It was like an easy zooming solution because it had both crop and extra resolution which you could punch in even more if publishing in FHD.

One such use case for 8K is filming a band or performance on stage. As long as it isn't too long of a performance, you could put the R5 on a tripod and fit the entire stage. You could even include the audience as well. In post, you could have an establishing shot using the entire field of view. You could have an establishing shot of just the stage. The magical part would be zooming into the players or performers with no loss of resolution so it could look like a telephoto shot. And you could incorporate all the dynamic panning and zooming so when you complete an edit, you could make it appear as if you had multiple cameras recording a single performance. Obviously, you wouldn't get the telephoto effect of a telephoto lens, or the parallax effect from tilting/panning, but those would be lost on the untrained eye. It's that flexibility that gets me excited about 8K.


----------



## Gazwas (Jul 9, 2020)

jayphotoworks said:


> I agree. But pushing the video specs so boldly led me to believe Canon came up with some solution to handle this either via heat pipes or perhaps a vapor chamber. 10 mins of cooling gets another 3 mins of shooting in 8K. That gives you an idea on what not having any cooling solution leads too...
> 
> I absolutely cannot have the camera shut down on me in the middle of certain types of shoot. I'm sure others are in the same boat. While I have the same 29:59 limits on my A7III/RIII and A9 (which I don't shoot much video on), I have done 60mins (2 segments) of speeches in the evening after shooting 2 hours of pre-event b-roll without even seeing the overheat warning.
> 
> Maybe Canon will come up with something in a firmware to help with this after the camera is released.


Is this not just a case of wrong tool for the job and that requirement sounds like a job for the R6 rather than the R5?

What the R5 is delivering is resolution be that 8K or that rather sexy sounding down sampled 4K and 4K 120. The sample footage so far looks amazing all from this tiny camera.


----------



## TracerHD (Jul 9, 2020)

Did I see right that the R6 hast FullHD 120fps and the R5 4K 120fps and nocht FullHD 120 or 240fps?


----------



## Anthny (Jul 9, 2020)

Does the R5 have focus bracketing?


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 9, 2020)

Nolastills said:


> 20 FPS in electronic shutter live view only like the 1DX. Also electronic shutter not in live view is not completely silent. Peter McKinnon has video posted on YouTube. No idea yet of rolling shutter or banding with LED of CFL lighting which only Sony A9 can handle.



Are you talking stills or video for light flicker?


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 9, 2020)

joestopper said:


> True, by design more critical on the wide side. But, again, I would be very surprised if that extending design would come without noticeable vignetting.



It's not like they have to design it to work when compacted. It's not a zoom, it just compacts for storage.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 9, 2020)

mpmark said:


> Im not one of the ones that will blindly without non bias reviews buy this camera, which you'll start seeing them pop up soon on Youtube from the regulars. Only then will I order this camera and decide whether its actually worth it.



You can always cancel a preorder before it ships. In this case you'll have about three weeks to decide. Not that it makes any difference now, as you'd be near the bottom of the list.


----------



## Kit. (Jul 9, 2020)

Anthny said:


> Does the R5 have focus bracketing?


They both do. However, the list of the lenses with which they do focus bracketing is not published yet (as far as I know).


----------



## drama (Jul 9, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> Proxies is your friend.
> 
> 
> One such use case for 8K is filming a band or performance on stage. As long as it isn't too long of a performance, you could put the R5 on a tripod and fit the entire stage. You could even include the audience as well. In post, you could have an establishing shot using the entire field of view. You could have an establishing shot of just the stage. The magical part would be zooming into the players or performers with no loss of resolution so it could look like a telephoto shot. And you could incorporate all the dynamic panning and zooming so when you complete an edit, you could make it appear as if you had multiple cameras recording a single performance. Obviously, you wouldn't get the telephoto effect of a telephoto lens, or the parallax effect from tilting/panning, but those would be lost on the untrained eye. It's that flexibility that gets me excited about 8K.



Maybe the reality distortion field worked on me too well, but 8k so I can shoot a key moment, pull a 35mpx image out of, *and* downsample to 4k for video is potentially a killer app. Want to see how it works practically first.


----------



## highdesertmesa (Jul 9, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> Proxies is your friend.
> 
> I can't speak for everyone, but I don't plan to publish to 8K for the foreseeable future. What I would do, is shoot 8K if the situation calls for it. I did not like the EOS R's 4K crop, but would use it as a tool if I needed extra reach. It was like an easy zooming solution because it had both crop and extra resolution which you could punch in even more if publishing in FHD.
> 
> One such use case for 8K is filming a band or performance on stage. As long as it isn't too long of a performance, you could put the R5 on a tripod and fit the entire stage. You could even include the audience as well. In post, you could have an establishing shot using the entire field of view. You could have an establishing shot of just the stage. The magical part would be zooming into the players or performers with no loss of resolution so it could look like a telephoto shot. And you could incorporate all the dynamic panning and zooming so when you complete an edit, you could make it appear as if you had multiple cameras recording a single performance. *Obviously, you wouldn't get the telephoto effect of a telephoto lens*, or the parallax effect from tilting/panning, but those would be lost on the untrained eye. It's that flexibility that gets me excited about 8K.



Cropping gives the same effect as having a longer lens. I don't want to turn this into a back-and-forth sideshow, but use Google to pull up some expert write-ups about this online.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 9, 2020)

Kit Lens Jockey said:


> Unemployment in the US is higher than it's ever been since the great depression. I think the number of people ready to drop 4 grand on a camera is a little lower than it would normally be right now.



Most of the increased unemployment is for those with lower paying jobs. Not many folks working those jobs would be able to afford a $4K camera even in a boom economy.


----------



## Kit. (Jul 9, 2020)

drama said:


> Maybe the reality distortion field worked on me too well, but 8k so I can shoot a key moment, pull a 35mpx image out of, *and* downsample to 4k for video is potentially a killer app. Want to see how it works practically first.


Likely not well. While it's technically possible, you would want 180 degree shutter for video, but much higher shutter speed for stills, unless you want to capture a moment when your subject temporarily freezes.


----------



## AlanF (Jul 9, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> As has been said, this has been discussed to death but here is a quick breakdown.
> 1/ VAT 20%
> 2/ Import duty 5%
> 3/ EU/UK enforced warranty obligations. For example I believe most EU countries have a 24 month warranty, the USA get 12 months, this is a real thing that costs Canon Europe money Canon USA doesn't have to spend.
> ...


There is no import duty for digital cameras into the UK, just 20% VAT. There is 6.7% import duty + 20% VAT on lenses (0 if on the camera. Details for thoise importing:
Lenses - tariff code 9002 11 00 90 duty rate 6.7%
Digital still cameras (e.g. DSLR's) including if equipped with a lens - tariff code 8525 80 30 00 duty rate 0%


----------



## Kit Lens Jockey (Jul 9, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Most of the increased unemployment is for those with lower paying jobs. Not many folks working those jobs would be able to afford a $4K camera even in a boom economy.


I already went through this in two other posts. Yes, people in lower paying jobs aren't buying a $4k camera, but some of them are the ones that would hire a photographer for various reasons who would buy a $4k camera.

And if they aren't making money, the photographer isn't getting hired for jobs. Everything is interconnected.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 9, 2020)

Kit Lens Jockey said:


> I would be shocked if there weren't at least some professionals that might have otherwise bought this new camera, but facing a dry spell of work, are deciding to hold off on new equipment purchases.



There are probably many, but they are no longer the primary buyers of Canon's high end gear.

The full-time professional photographer no longer drives Canon's product cycles and marketing for their high end bodies and lenses, with the possible exception of the 1-Series, and the ratios between full-time pros and well heeled enthusiasts/part timers buying 1-series cameras has also shifted, though not as radically as with the rest of Canon's product line.

The number of full-time pros working in staff positions for media companies that will automatically buy the newest gear for at least some of their staffers is nowhere near what it was a few years ago. In the past the vast majority of full-time working pros were photojournalists in staff positions. Now most of the few full-time PJs that remain are freelancers working for pennies on the dollar compared to their old staff jobs. They can't afford to replace anything until it breaks beyond repair. There weren't near as many commercial, ad, and other types of full time shooters as PJs back in the day, and those numbers aren't going up now, either.

The high end camera market is increasingly being guided by what well heeled enthusiasts and "weekend warriors" shooting events, weddings, and even high level pro sports want and can afford.


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## Michael Clark (Jul 9, 2020)

Kit Lens Jockey said:


> I already went through this in two other posts. Yes, people in lower paying jobs aren't buying a $4k camera, but some of them are the ones that would hire a photographer for various reasons who would buy a $4k camera.
> 
> And if they aren't making money, the photographer isn't getting hired for jobs. Everything is interconnected.



People working sub-$30K per year jobs are not the one hiring pros very often, either.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 9, 2020)

AlanF said:


> There is no import duty for digital cameras into the UK, just 20% VAT. There is 6.7% import duty + 20% VAT on lenses (0 if on the camera. Details for thoise importing:
> Lenses - tariff code 9002 11 00 90 duty rate 6.7%
> Digital still cameras (e.g. DSLR's) including if equipped with a lens - tariff code 8525 80 30 00 duty rate 0%


I read the same code but different tariff, my info was probably old though as I just checked here https://www.trade-tariff.service.gov.uk/commodities/8525803000?currency=EUR interesting that film cameras do still have duty!


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## Michael Clark (Jul 9, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> I wouldn’t necessarily disagree but I would also like to see a Venn diagram of ’professional’ user vs amateur user historical purchasing.



One circle is a LOT smaller than it used to be, and it isn't the one for the amateurs/enthusiasts/"weekend warriors".


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## Kit Lens Jockey (Jul 9, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> People working sub-$30K per year jobs are not the one hiring pros very often, either.


Ok fine... The people working the sub-$30K jobs will not shop as much at the business owned by the person who would be hiring a photographer for their wedding, family reunion, whatever.

Any way you slice it, less money moving through the economy means less people ultimately shelling out for a new camera.


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## BakaBokeh (Jul 9, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> Cropping gives the same effect as having a longer lens. I don't want to turn this into a back-and-forth sideshow, but use Google to pull up some expert write-ups about this online.


I thought about it, and you are right... I don't want this to go back-and-forth. I'm just gonna agree with you.


----------



## VegasCameraGuy (Jul 9, 2020)

I ordered my R5 + 24-70mmf2.8L at 5AM this morning PST. Does anyone know if there is a way to find out where you are on the preorder list?


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 9, 2020)

Ian_of_glos said:


> Actually price is a very important consideration for most of us. Why is the camera so much more expensive in Europe than it is in the USA? Doesn't that seem unfair to you? The difference is far to great to be explained by VAT. The price for the body only in USA is $3,899 and the price for the body only in the UK is £4,199. At today's exchange rate the US price of $3,899 should be around £3,091. Add on the 20% VAT and the total price should be around £3,709, so why is it nearly £500 more than that? It is a huge difference.



It's a smaller market, it's further from Japan, and your consumer laws require much longer warranties. Someone has to pay for all of those repairs done under warranty that would have been paid for by the owner in the U.S.


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## telemaque (Jul 9, 2020)

Dear Canon employees,

I had been one of this person complaining about the fact the brand Canon was not listening to the needs of videos amateurs like me. Despite, a serious investment in Canon L lenses and in different Canon bodies 350D, 60D and 6D mark I, it was not pleasant to see other brands like Lumix being able to offer amateurs a much better quality in video.

However, the image quality of pictures taken with these bodies and these lenses were fabulous and people like me just had a hidden hope Canon would finally listen to us. Obviously, our messages have been heard and the body R6 sounds simply what we had been dreaming of for many years.

I just wanted to officially say *THANK YOU. *
Indeed, many people complain but forget to express their recognition when it is appropriate.

In the coming months the body R6 will certainly join my home and enjoy the presence of L lenses, Rokinon Cine Lenses and some recent Contax Zeiss lenses.
Looking forward to the first video footages and low light pictures made with this body by recognised youtubers.
Obviously this body is going to be a source of joy shooting videos of very high image quality.

I suppose professionals will be delighted with the R5 body.
Not for me but obviously an incredible pro body for pro cinema people.

Last but not least, thanks to Canon Rumors for the quality of information provided to us in the last months.


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## VegasCameraGuy (Jul 9, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> Cropping gives the same effect as having a longer lens.


Cropping does not give the same effect. As someone who started years ago with 35mm and then transitioned to 2-1/4 x 2-1/4, the difference was amazing. When you crop you are blowing up a smaller number of pixels which does not return the sharpness of a long lens. The image may be the same size but the sharpness is completely different.


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## sanj (Jul 9, 2020)

I am a professional. But my assignments are travel-centric. So I will wait a bit. Anyways, it will not be available for a month. COVID numbers are rising daily. So I think by the time I am ready, R5 will be available easily. So no need for me to pre-order. And I do not need to get the camera much ahead of an assignment, I am confident that I will learn all there is to learn to shoot still or film with it within few hours of the camera in my hands.


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## Michael Clark (Jul 9, 2020)

jayphotoworks said:


> I agree. But pushing the video specs so boldly led me to believe Canon came up with some solution to handle this either via heat pipes or perhaps a vapor chamber. 10 mins of cooling gets another 3 mins of shooting in 8K. That gives you an idea on what not having any cooling solution leads too...
> 
> I absolutely cannot have the camera shut down on me in the middle of certain types of shoot. I'm sure others are in the same boat. While I have the same 29:59 limits on my A7III/RIII and A9 (which I don't shoot much video on), I have done 60mins (2 segments) of speeches in the evening after shooting 2 hours of pre-event b-roll without even seeing the overheat warning.
> 
> Maybe Canon will come up with something in a firmware to help with this after the camera is released.



Your α7III and α9 are both in the same resolution range as the 20MP R6. 

Your α7RIII is the only one that approaches the resolution of the R5, and it can't do 8K. It can only do 4K at 30 fps.

How long can the R5 shoot at 4K30 before it overheats?


----------



## kimster (Jul 9, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> You can always cancel a preorder before it ships. In this case you'll have about three weeks to decide. Not that it makes any difference now, as you'd be near the bottom of the list.


I wonder what the allocations are and if we know what time B&H, Adorama etc filled their quotas? I guess the camera shops won't tell you that you missed the 30Jul shipment in case you cancel?


----------



## Billybob (Jul 9, 2020)

VegasCameraGuy said:


> Cropping does not give the same effect. As someone who started years ago with 35mm and then transitioned to 2-1/4 x 2-1/4, the difference was amazing. When you crop you are blowing up a smaller number of pixels which does not return the sharpness of a long lens. The image may be the same size but the sharpness is completely different.


I agree with most of what you say, but I disagree with your use of the adverb "completely". The more pixels you start with the better the crop. So, all else equal, similar crops in good light from a 60MP sensor (say, 26MP) will appear not to be as noticeably less sharp as the same size crop from a 20MP sensor (around 8MP). Both crops lose acuity and neither will perfectly match the image from a longer lens from cameras using the same sensors, but the higher MP crop will be less noticeably different.


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## tpatana (Jul 9, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> Cropping gives the same effect as having a longer lens. I don't want to turn this into a back-and-forth sideshow, but use Google to pull up some expert write-ups about this online.



No it doesn't. Maybe use Bing next time?

Edit: good example: https://annawu.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/focal-length-comparison.jpg


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## Michael Clark (Jul 9, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> I thought about it, and you are right... I don't want this to go back-and-forth. I'm just gonna agree with you.



Cropping gives the same perspective (e.g. "compression") as using a longer lens, because perspective is determined by camera position. 

But the greater the enlargement ratio between sensor size (or the size of the cropped portion of the sensor) and the display/viewing size, the sharper the lens must be to give the same amount of acutance. For video viewed on typical televisions this may not matter, since FHD is only 2MP and the width of 2K is only 10 MP at 3:2. But for large display of stills, it can make a significant difference. A lens must be able to give 1.6X more lp/mm to have the same number of lp/ih on an APS-C crop sensor as another lens on an uncropped FF sensor.


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## Kit Lens Jockey (Jul 9, 2020)

tpatana said:


> No it doesn't. Maybe use Bing next time?
> 
> Edit: good example: https://annawu.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/focal-length-comparison.jpg


Setting aside the issue of pixel level quality to keep things more straightforward, cropping does indeed give the same effect as using a longer lens *provided you're standing the same distance away from your subject.* Your example actually shows this. The photographer changes their distance from the subject using each lens to get the subject's head to fill the frame to the same degree with each lens.

If the photographer would have stood as far away as they did with the 200mm lens with all the other lenses and then cropped each photo down to show the same field of view as with the 200mm, all the photos would look more or less the same, except for possibly depth of field, I'm not sure on that one.

However, obviously shooting with a very wide lens and then cropping down to what a telephoto would have seen gives you a huge loss in resolution, hence the reason for having different lenses.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 9, 2020)

Kit Lens Jockey said:


> Ok fine... The people working the sub-$30K jobs will not shop as much at the business owned by the person who would be hiring a photographer for their wedding, family reunion, whatever.
> 
> Any way you slice it, less money moving through the economy means less people ultimately shelling out for a new camera.



Any way you slice it, it takes ten workers making $30K to push as much money through the economy as one person earning $300K. And those 10 lower earning workers need more food and other essentials than that one high earning worker does.

Yes, economic slowdowns will affect the number of jobs pros can get, but nowhere near the degree that SARS-CoV-2 has done due to the cancellations of almost all gatherings of any size larger than a few dozens of people. 

Pro photogs aren't working very much right now primarily due to the virus, not due to the economic fallout from the virus.


----------



## kimster (Jul 9, 2020)

VegasCameraGuy said:


> I ordered my R5 + 24-70mmf2.8L at 5AM this morning PST. Does anyone know if there is a way to find out where you are on the preorder list?


I asked the same question. If you know what time you received a confirmation email, the shop should know if you were going to get a shipment by 30Jul. On the other hand, they probably won't tell us that we missed the cut because you would cancel. They like having your money in their bank account.


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## sanj (Jul 9, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> Cropping gives the same effect as having a longer lens. I don't want to turn this into a back-and-forth sideshow, but use Google to pull up some expert write-ups about this online.


Nope.


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## Michael Clark (Jul 9, 2020)

tpatana said:


> No it doesn't. Maybe use Bing next time?
> 
> Edit: good example: https://annawu.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/focal-length-comparison.jpg



You're comparing apple to oranges. Your link shows the same framing using different focal lengths from different shooting distances. The original discussion here was about using the same focal length lens from the same distance and cropping.

It doesn't matter what focal length you are using. If you are shooting the same scene from the same camera position, you'll get the same perspective.

See: https://www.australianlight.com.au/blog/post/myth_busting_focal_length_and_perspective/


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## Michael Clark (Jul 9, 2020)

kimster said:


> I wonder what the allocations are and if we know what time B&H, Adorama etc filled their quotas? I guess the camera shops won't tell you that you missed the 30Jul shipment in case you cancel?



They don't even know at this point, because they don't know how many of the preorders in front of you will change their minds and cancel before the camera's ship in three weeks.


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## Kit Lens Jockey (Jul 9, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Any way you slice it, it takes ten workers making $30K to push as much money through the economy as one person earning $300K. And those 10 lower earning workers need more food and other essentials than that one high earning worker does.
> 
> Yes, economic slowdowns will affect the number of jobs pros can get, but nowhere near the degree that SARS-CoV-2 has done due to the cancellations of almost all gatherings of any size larger than a few dozens of people.
> 
> Pro photogs aren't working very much right now primarily due to the virus, not due to the economic fallout from the virus.


Fair enough.


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## Michael Clark (Jul 9, 2020)

sanj said:


> Nope.



https://www.australianlight.com.au/blog/post/myth_busting_focal_length_and_perspective/


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## privatebydesign (Jul 9, 2020)

Kit Lens Jockey said:


> Setting aside the issue of pixel level quality to keep things more straightforward, cropping does indeed give the same effect as using a longer lens *provided you're standing the same distance away from your subject.* Your example actually shows this. The photographer changes their distance from the subject using each lens to get the subject's head to fill the frame to the same degree with each lens.
> 
> If the photographer would have stood as far away as they did with the 200mm lens with all the other lenses and then cropped each photo down to show the same field of view as with the 200mm, all the photos would look more or less the same, except for possibly depth of field, I'm not sure on that one.
> 
> However, obviously shooting with a very wide lens and then cropping down to what a telephoto would have seen gives you a huge loss in resolution, hence the reason for having different lenses.


Yep depth of field changes, perspective does not, as my illustration here demonstrates.





Canon 35mm F2 IS image quality


Thank you all for your useful and extensive comments. My slight dissappointment with the lens is not based on lack of sharpness or bokeh. it is the color and contrast and overall artistic impression of the image that does not meassure up to 24-70 Mk II. Put it this way; just came from vacation...




www.canonrumors.com





it amazes me how in this world of instant information everywhere people can repeatedly argue over the same thing time and time again.


----------



## BakaBokeh (Jul 9, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> You're comparing apple to oranges. Your link shows the same framing using different focal lengths from different shooting distances. The original discussion here was about using the same focal length lens from the same distance and cropping.
> 
> It doesn't matter what focal length you are using. If you are shooting the same scene from the same camera position, you'll get the same perspective.
> 
> See: https://www.australianlight.com.au/blog/post/myth_busting_focal_length_and_perspective/


In the context of where this stems from, I was referring to the inability to simulate telephoto effects from the same spot using only a wide angle lens. I gave the scenario of setting up a wide angle shot and using that for all your field of views. This means there are no variables. I'm not moving closer to the subject, not moving farther away. I'm not changing the focal length, not adjusting depth of field. The only variable is cropping with a single lens and a single camera. And no matter how much I crop, it will not look like a lens of a longer focal length.

So if I'm being creative, I would use different focal lengths to have a variety of shots because I would want different perspectives. I was merely illustrating that if I sacrifice some of that creative ability, I can get take advantage of the the flexibility and simplicity of using 8K.


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## privatebydesign (Jul 9, 2020)

sanj said:


> Nope.


Sorry sanj, on this one you are wrong. Cropping gives the same perspective just different dof. See my above example That I have posted many times.


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## privatebydesign (Jul 9, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> In the context of where this stems from, I was referring to the inability to simulate telephoto effects from the same spot using only a wide angle lens. I gave the scenario of setting up a wide angle shot and using that for all your field of views. This means there are no variables. I'm not moving closer to the subject, not moving farther away. I'm not changing the focal length, not adjusting depth of field. The only variable is cropping with a single lens and a single camera. And no matter how much I crop, it will not look like a lens of a longer focal length.
> 
> So if I'm being creative, I would use different focal lengths to have a variety of shots because I would want different perspectives. I was merely illustrating that if I sacrifice some of that creative ability, I can get take advantage of the the flexibility and simplicity of using 8K.


If you want a different perspective you have to move. If you don’t move it is the same perspective irrespective of framing or focal length. If you move the perspective is different even if you don’t change focal length or anything else.

that is what perspective is, your position in relation to the scene.


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## Michael Clark (Jul 9, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> In the context of where this stems from, I was referring to the inability to simulate telephoto effects from the same spot using only a wide angle lens. I gave the scenario of setting up a wide angle shot and using that for all your field of views. This means there are no variables. I'm not moving closer to the subject, not moving farther away. I'm not changing the focal length, not adjusting depth of field. The only variable is cropping with a single lens and a single camera. And no matter how much I crop, it will not look like a lens of a longer focal length.
> 
> So if I'm being creative, I would use different focal lengths to have a variety of shots because I would want different perspectives. I was merely illustrating that if I sacrifice some of that creative ability, I can get take advantage of the the flexibility and simplicity of using 8K.



The one thing you can do by cropping is "simulate telephoto effects" because there's really no such thing as "telephoto effects", there is only the effect shooting distance has on perspective. If you shoot from the same distance, you'll get the same amount of compression with a 1200mm lens or a 12mm lens cropped to the same FoV as the 1200mm lens. Exactly the same compression, because compression is determined by the relative distances between the camera and the various objects in the scene.

https://www.australianlight.com.au/blog/post/myth_busting_focal_length_and_perspective/


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## BakaBokeh (Jul 9, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> If you want a different perspective you have to move. If you don’t move it is the same perspective irrespective of framing or focal length. If you move the perspective is different even if you don’t change focal length or anything else.
> 
> that is what perspective is, your position in relation to the scene.


And that is exactly my original point.

"And you could incorporate all the dynamic panning and zooming so when you complete an edit, you could make it appear as if you had multiple cameras recording a single performance. Obviously, you wouldn't get the telephoto effect of a telephoto lens, or the parallax effect from tilting/panning, but those would be lost on the untrained eye."

Some of you feel like you have this need to correct something, when there's nothing to correct.

This is also why I also said, I'm just gonna agree.

Today is a great day, I preordered my R5, I have nothing more to argue about.


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## Anthny (Jul 9, 2020)

1) Is the canon GPS receiver GP-E2 compatible with the R5?
2) Does the latest version of Lightroom Classic running on a PC correctly interpret the coordinates? Apparently it do not originally.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 9, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> And that is exactly my original point.
> 
> "And you could incorporate all the dynamic panning and zooming so when you complete an edit, you could make it appear as if you had multiple cameras recording a single performance. Obviously, *you wouldn't get the telephoto effect of a telephoto lens,* or the parallax effect from tilting/panning, but those would be lost on the untrained eye."
> 
> ...


THAT is completely incorrect. That is the bit that needs correcting as there is no such thing as a "telephoto effect".

Where is the 'telephoto effect' here?


----------



## BakaBokeh (Jul 9, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> THAT is completely incorrect. That is the bit that needs correcting as there is no such thing as a "telephoto effect".
> 
> Where is the 'telephoto effect' here?
> 
> View attachment 191255


My mistake for saying "telephoto effect." But I do know that both examples look extremely different.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 9, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> My mistake for saying "telephoto effect." But I do know that both examples look extremely different.


The ONLY difference is dof, and that his because in that example I was trying to illustrate the dof too. If you use a crop factor on the dof the images are identical.

Like this, 75mm or 150mm? It is the same thing from the same place. if you used a 75mm lens @ f2.8 from the same place and cropped it to the same framing it would be identical.


----------



## BakaBokeh (Jul 10, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> The ONLY difference is dof, and that his because in that example I was trying to illustrate the dof too. If you use a crop factor on the dof the images are identical.
> 
> Like this, 75mm or 150mm? It is the same thing from the same place.
> 
> View attachment 191256


Never disagreed with you at all.

And it still makes my original point. I can't get the look of... what I should've said... "a different depth of field" if I'm shooting from the same spot with only one lens and without varying any settings.


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 10, 2020)

DT3019 said:


> Pre-order price is AUD$7,099 in Australia according to “canon.com.au“ website! Yes, this includes the 10% GST or federal sales tax of Australia. But, OMG... I am sure it’s worth every cent, but, goodness me, good luck finding both professionals and advanced amateurs with the cash to buy these in the COVID era!
> 
> Around AUD$5,499 to AUD$5,699 may have been a little more palatable! In a time where ‘pro-work’ is drying up, newspapers are shutting down and people are losing their jobs - these will not sell like hot cakes!


Avoiding the off-topic discussions! 
We get 5 year local Canon warranty but the 100-500mm is too expensive. 10% more than the current RF70-200mm and the RF TC is 50% more expensive than its EF counterpart. I will cancel my pre-order for it. Disappointed as since I can't use TCs with my RF70-200mm (as I did for EF 70-200mm), I don't now have a reasonably priced option for longer reach... except to go back to EF100-400mm mk 2. Not a bad option especially if there are some good second hand copies handed down from people moving to the RF tele lenses.

Is there a website/document that specifies which CFexpress cards are qualified? Australian resellers are bundling a 64gb USH-I SD card (useless!?!) card but no RF-EF adaptor or CFexpress.


----------



## pmjm (Jul 10, 2020)

VegasCameraGuy said:


> I ordered my R5 + 24-70mmf2.8L at 5AM this morning PST. Does anyone know if there is a way to find out where you are on the preorder list?



That would totally depend on the vendor. If you preordered from, say, Amazon, then you won't know. I'm still not convinced they ship in the order the pre-orders were received. B&H has told me in the past that I would be in the first batch of received goods for a pre-order. You can call them and ask.


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## highdesertmesa (Jul 10, 2020)

VegasCameraGuy said:


> Cropping does not give the same effect. As someone who started years ago with 35mm and then transitioned to 2-1/4 x 2-1/4, the difference was amazing. When you crop you are blowing up a smaller number of pixels which does not return the sharpness of a long lens. The image may be the same size but the sharpness is completely different.



Not talking about the sharpness. The OP was talking about the perspective/compression of the visual.


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## pmjm (Jul 10, 2020)

StevenA said:


> I'm just a bit ignorant about the demand for 8k I guess. I mean do we even have computers that we can process that much data on? Or screens to view it on? I would think 4k would be sufficient for most customers? And if they demand 4k recordings for an entire event then you'd likely not be looking at a camera system like this anyway?



I deliver in 4K. 8K will be great to shoot in for several reasons, first, reframing. I don't have to spend 15 minutes making sure the camera is perfectly centered on my set, I can roughly center by eyeball in a few seconds, then reframe a perfectly centered 4K shot in post without any resolution loss.

I can also punch in on a detail or for a close-up on the talent's face in post, or pan around the frame and still deliver in 4K without having to upscale.

Finally, when I scale down from 8K to 4K, it will increase sharpness and reduce noise in the final image due to sub-pixel sampling and you'll end up with a much cleaner picture than if you'd shot at 4K natively.

Will be curious to compare downsampling in editing software vs shooting in oversampled 4K mode from the camera, just as an experiment, I'll likely shoot mostly in 8K to retain the reframing abilities.


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## Bert63 (Jul 10, 2020)

So here's my summary from B&H:

R5 - 3,789
Sandisk CFExpress 128GB - 195.99
BG-R10 Grip - 342.02
LP-E6NH - 77.42

Thanks to Payboo - no tax.

Total - 4,404

Decent.

Very happy.


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## Bert63 (Jul 10, 2020)

kimster said:


> I asked the same question. If you know what time you received a confirmation email, the shop should know if you were going to get a shipment by 30Jul. On the other hand, they probably won't tell us that we missed the cut because you would cancel. They like having your money in their bank account.



Except places like B&H don't charge until the order ships.


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## highdesertmesa (Jul 10, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> Never disagreed with you at all.
> 
> And it still makes my original point. I can't get the look of... what I should've said... "a different depth of field" if I'm shooting from the same spot with only one lens and without varying any settings.



I was calling out what you said only because you put it right next to mentioning the changes you'd see via parallax when moving the camera position (true change in the images). Bouncing around in crops will be the same as throwing on a longer lens minus the difference in resolution and DOF (although DOF can be made equivalent as was demonstrated further back).

Anyway, sorry to have derailed this thread. It's just a myth that keeps getting perpetuated. I believed it for a long time and argued against it, but I finally understood once I tried some tests myself using my Leica Q's crop mode versus another full frame with interchangeable lenses. Zero difference between Q's 50mm crop (f/1.7) and another camera with 50mm @ f/1.8 shot from the same position. Only differences were those introduced by resolution, bokeh due to the lens designs, etc. But the framing and "compression" of the scene were identical. This is most often misunderstood on medium format forums where everyone thinks their sensor is super magic sauce – when in fact what they're seeing are things like superior sharpness, microcontrast, nice focus falloff, etc. due to superior medium format lenses. But the "compression" isn't better or any different.


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## martin_ (Jul 10, 2020)

All talking about the R5 and I only hope that the R6 will drop at least $200 in October and that Sigma or Tamron launch their 24-70 2.8 RF at a good price .

PD1: 8k is marketing 
PD2: Saludos desde Argentina


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## Quarkcharmed (Jul 10, 2020)

amorse said:


> Or then again, Canon is claiming an extra stop of DR over the 5DIV which, again, I'd be curious to see the output from.



Very interesting. Where do they claim it exactly?


----------



## koch1948 (Jul 10, 2020)

Anthny said:


> 1) Is the canon GPS receiver GP-E2 compatible with the R5?
> 2) Does the latest version of Lightroom Classic running on a PC correctly interpret the coordinates? Apparently it do not originally.


1) Canon shows the GP-E2 as compatible with the EOS R5 under the "Supplies and Accessories" tab. https://www.usa.canon.com/internet/...dslr-and-mirrorless-cameras/mirrorless/eos-r5
2) I only use Canon DPP4, so I wouldn't know about Lightroom.


----------



## navastronia (Jul 10, 2020)

Kit. said:


> Have you heard about 8 stops of IBIS with a (non-IS) RF85/1.2?


Really?? I didn’t see that.


----------



## amorse (Jul 10, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Very interesting. Where do they claim it exactly?


I know they said it in one of the videos but I can't remember which one. I've been watching so many videos and reading so many articles on the R5 that they all blur together by this point. However, DPreview references that Canon claimed one stop over the EOS R (not the 5DIV to be fair, but same sensor still) in this article: https://m.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-r5-initial-review/2.amp


----------



## Richard Anthony (Jul 10, 2020)




----------



## tpatana (Jul 10, 2020)

Kit Lens Jockey said:


> Setting aside the issue of pixel level quality to keep things more straightforward, cropping does indeed give the same effect as using a longer lens *provided you're standing the same distance away from your subject.* Your example actually shows this. The photographer changes their distance from the subject using each lens to get the subject's head to fill the frame to the same degree with each lens.
> 
> If the photographer would have stood as far away as they did with the 200mm lens with all the other lenses and then cropped each photo down to show the same field of view as with the 200mm, all the photos would look more or less the same, except for possibly depth of field, I'm not sure on that one.
> 
> However, obviously shooting with a very wide lens and then cropping down to what a telephoto would have seen gives you a huge loss in resolution, hence the reason for having different lenses.



Yup, that's correct.


----------



## jayphotoworks (Jul 10, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Your α7III and α9 are both in the same resolution range as the 20MP R6.
> 
> Your α7RIII is the only one that approaches the resolution of the R5, and it can't do 8K. It can only do 4K at 30 fps.
> 
> How long can the R5 shoot at 4K30 before it overheats?



It will depend if it is oversampled I guess. Oversampled it will record for 30 mins and shut down for 10mins which will allow another 10mins. If it is binned or cropped, probably will not. But if that is the case, I’m spendIng almost $6k+ after taxes up here in Canada with the marquee features being essentially heat limited.

Panasonic knows this and the S1H runs all day long and is Netflix certified. I get the sense Sony (at least based on recent rumors) knows this as well since it was somehow important enough to leak ahead of anything else, aside from the EVF resolution.

My point is the R5 really needed a cooling solution. But you can’t really do that and retain 5D weather sealing. Everything has compromises and Canon simply decided to go this way.

I get Canon needed to make a statement, but that’s such a “Sony” move by putting it on the spec sheet and padding it with fine print.

I was seriously considering this body this week. I’m a bit disappointed that it doesn’t fit my use case, but Canon still deserves kudos for packing this much spec in a single body.


----------



## usern4cr (Jul 10, 2020)

Richard Anthony said:


>


Wooow,  that video was stunning! The photos of the models were ... Ay yi yi ... stunning ... what was I talking about? ... oh yeah - The use of the oriental umbrella as both an artistic prop and a big colorful light diffuser over the head & torso turning bright sunlight into a work of art,  with those models was ... Ay yi yi ... what was I talking about? ... oh yeah ... That really made the 85mm f1.2 look great, as well as the 85mm f2. Wooow!


----------



## mppix (Jul 10, 2020)

jayphotoworks said:


> I think the R5 will be the wrong tool for the type of jobs I've mentioned and I think the R6 would be a much better choice in that case. But once you get into the R6, you do have other options as the price is also higher than expected.


Even if you just count the R6 video AF and IBIS, I really don't see a solid alternative.



jayphotoworks said:


> My point is the R5 really needed a cooling solution. But you can’t really do that and retain 5D weather sealing. Everything has compromises and Canon simply decided to go this way.


We shall see.
I don't expect overheating with 4K30. If it does we will see a fix in a firmware update.
If you are recording 4K120 for 10-20min at a time, you are doing it wrong.
I am most curious about heat at 4K60, you know the one Sony's cannot do and Panasonic needed active cooling for


----------



## StevenA (Jul 10, 2020)

Richard Anthony said:


>


Great gear! 

Oh yeah, camera system was pretty nice too.


----------



## dwarven (Jul 10, 2020)

Pre-ordered an R6. And now for the long, painful wait for a 135mm (f/1.4?) prime with IS hopefully.


----------



## pmjm (Jul 10, 2020)

mppix said:


> If you are recording 4K120 for 10-20min at a time, you are doing it wrong.
> I am most curious about heat at 4K60, you know the one Sony's cannot do and Panasonic needed active cooling for



I'm not the person you were replying to, but my biggest worry is overheating at 8K/24p/IPB when shooting talking-head stuff or interviews, which can often go an hour or more. I'm used to having to pause to reset the recording after 30 minutes or change a memory card, but now we're talking 30 minutes of downtime between shots.

The way I'm justifying the purchase to myself is by remembering that the camera shoots 4K/24 with better IQ/AF and a leaner codec than my 1DX2 or 5D4 and the ability to shoot 8K or 4K/120p is a bonus.


----------



## korbar (Jul 10, 2020)

mppix said:


> Even if you just count the R6 video AF and IBIS, I really don't see a solid alternative.
> 
> 
> We shall see.
> ...


 This right here.
Honestly if you're trying to squeeze even long form 8K out of this thing, idk what you're doing. I'm confident that was never what Canon had in mind for this body.
I'm ecstatic about the other options and confident it's going to be everything I wanted. 
I am really hoping they eventually update it for 120fps at 1080 but even then I can live without it. 8K adn 4K120 will be for very specific uses with this thing. I hope mine arrives swiftly.


----------



## highdesertmesa (Jul 10, 2020)

navastronia said:


> Really?? I didn’t see that.



Yup, some of the non-IS lenses like the 28-70 and 85 1.2 have larger image circles that allow for more IBIS stabilization (similar to how the wider RF mount gives more stops than Sony's more narrow E mount). However, I'm thinking the 28-70 is only going to be 8 stops at 70mm. At 50mm, it will probably equal the 50 1.2, and at 28 will probably be the least effective – unless somehow the R5 sensor microlens design is better at resolving the angle of light from wider focal lengths than the R is.


----------



## mppix (Jul 10, 2020)

pmjm said:


> I'm not the person you were replying to, but my biggest worry is overheating at 8K/24p/IPB when shooting talking-head stuff or interviews, which can often go an hour or more. I'm used to having to pause to reset the recording after 30 minutes or change a memory card, but now we're talking 30 minutes of downtime between shots.
> 
> The way I'm justifying the purchase to myself is by remembering that the camera shoots 4K/24 with better IQ/AF and a leaner codec than my 1DX2 or 5D4 and the ability to shoot 8K or 4K/120p is a bonus.



Maybe a stupid question but why would you film long interviews at 8K?
The data volume is quite intense: ~1TB per hour of video per camera.
For now, I could see 8K mostly in cinematographic workflow where people film scenes of a few min at a time.


----------



## Flamingtree (Jul 10, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Avoiding the off-topic discussions!
> We get 5 year local Canon warranty but the 100-500mm is too expensive. 10% more than the current RF70-200mm and the RF TC is 50% more expensive than its EF counterpart. I will cancel my pre-order for it. Disappointed as since I can't use TCs with my RF70-200mm (as I did for EF 70-200mm), I don't now have a reasonably priced option for longer reach... except to go back to EF100-400mm mk 2. Not a bad option especially if there are some good second hand copies handed down from people moving to the RF tele lenses.
> 
> Is there a website/document that specifies which CFexpress cards are qualified? Australian resellers are bundling a 64gb USH-I SD card (useless!?!) card but no RF-EF adaptor or CFexpress.



have a look at digidirect they are doing the r5 for 6.6k. With some sort of strap, battery and card.
I am actually pleasantly surprised by AU pricing For the r5.


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 10, 2020)

Flamingtree said:


> have a look at digidirect they are doing the r5 for 6.6k. With some sort of strap, battery and card.
> I am actually pleasantly surprised by AU pricing For the r5.


Yeah, the AUD400 of value is somewhat overrated! They have told me that:
"the memory card is $57 (UHS-I only), the NEW battery (LP-E6NH) is $179, and the strap is a limited edition strap at $164. For the bonus strap and battery I would suggest getting in touch with Canon Australia, as they have organised this free promotional kit as a gift for customers. "
The battery isn't listed yet on their website but it should be about AUD110 (Current LP-E6N is AUD88 and BHphoto has ~25% premium on the NH version).
I will sell the card/strap after delivery... not sure how much the market thinks it is worth. Advertising a new (in demand) camera via a custom strap is asking for problems.
Bundling a EOS-R mount adaptor instead would have been much more useful!


----------



## Gundogg (Jul 10, 2020)

mppix said:


> Even if you just count the R6 video AF and IBIS, I really don't see a solid alternative.
> 
> 
> We shall see.
> ...



I am very concerned about the 4K/60. That was my main reason I saved and preordered this camera. I don’t normally shoot real long scenes, but I’m in the heat often which may accelerate the overheating. Considering canceling the preorder and waiting to see what happens... or just buying something else. I wish we could get a straight answer on the overheating.


----------



## degos (Jul 10, 2020)

Koemans said:


> 29:59 is because of EU law. 30 minutes or higher, it is considered a camcorder so an additional tax is applied. For anything else, i agree. This seems like major dealbreaker.



You know, I wish the limit was 2 minutes for the tax threshold and then companies like Canon might actually make cameras instead of camcorders in a camera shape.

All this talk of engineering for cooling shows how much R&D and hence final cost is due to catering to the video market of people who won't buy a cine camera.


----------



## kten (Jul 10, 2020)

mppix said:


> Maybe a stupid question but why would you film long interviews at 8K?
> The data volume is quite intense: ~1TB per hour of video per camera.
> For now, I could see 8K mostly in cinematographic workflow where people film scenes of a few min at a time.


You may not be taking into account the dailies are often longer than the final cut scene, not by that much but it adds up when you consider not every scene is done in one take either. Plus you may have other scenes and so on. Thus you could still hit overheating filming for final output that is sub 5 minutes tops. Also nearly every single person I know filming 8K or 4K outputs to 1080p generally with some 1440p and 4K and 8K is never the intended final res delivered. Mostly not crop and stabilisation being primary motivation, although they are important it is often for the downsampling from higher is more favourable qualitywise than filming at that res.

I do think it is ott for talking head stuff I can think of BUT I don't know exactly what he is filming for, for what clients and final viewing intentions. Those considered it could be demanded almost. We often assume based on our use and limited details what we think others need, we are often off the mark when we do that thus I try not to. If he say he needs it maybe he does.

For me one of the things I like most about Canon is they are conservative and it just works when you want it to and under all conditions typical of the niche it is aimed at. If I wanted spec sheet monsters other companies do that well and my primary reason for avoiding sony is the great value and features but at cost of overheating and not always just work. Don't get me wrong the R5 is looking great but I'd prefer more bulk and slightly less sealing for the sake of more cooling as if I need sealing there are plenty of housing solutions. Or go the accessories route and add a metal coldfinger passive heatsink that you can connect active cooling to externally like some astro and niche sensors have where you can mount active pelt effect or air cooling solutions to the exposed metal on the exterior of shell that is directly connected to the internal cold finger.


----------



## Chris.Chapterten (Jul 10, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> As has been said, this has been discussed to death but here is a quick breakdown.
> 1/ VAT 20%
> 2/ Import duty 5%
> 3/ EU/UK enforced warranty obligations. For example I believe most EU countries have a 24 month warranty, the USA get 12 months, this is a real thing that costs Canon Europe money Canon USA doesn't have to spend.
> ...


In Australia Canon products come with a 5 year warranty. Only 12 months in the USA isn't great


----------



## ericjon23 (Jul 10, 2020)

that 8k is a gimmick. R6 is the better buy.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jul 10, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Yeah, the AUD400 of value is somewhat overrated! They have told me that:
> "the memory card is $57 (UHS-I only), the NEW battery (LP-E6NH) is $179, and the strap is a limited edition strap at $164. For the bonus strap and battery I would suggest getting in touch with Canon Australia, as they have organised this free promotional kit as a gift for customers. "
> The battery isn't listed yet on their website but it should be about AUD110 (Current LP-E6N is AUD88 and BHphoto has ~25% premium on the NH version).
> I will sell the card/strap after delivery... not sure how much the market thinks it is worth. Advertising a new (in demand) camera via a custom strap is asking for problems.
> Bundling a EOS-R mount adaptor instead would have been much more useful!



At Canon AU store it goes for $7100 which was very frustrating to me, but I found it for $6588, also with battery and strap. My budget was at $6000 but ok, I stretched it. $7100 would have been too much. 
The card is useless, yes, but the battery is a must buy anyway. The control ring adaptor - that I'll try and get the cheapest/grey wherever possible.


----------



## Flamingtree (Jul 10, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Yeah, the AUD400 of value is somewhat overrated! They have told me that:
> "the memory card is $57 (UHS-I only), the NEW battery (LP-E6NH) is $179, and the strap is a limited edition strap at $164. For the bonus strap and battery I would suggest getting in touch with Canon Australia, as they have organised this free promotional kit as a gift for customers. "
> The battery isn't listed yet on their website but it should be about AUD110 (Current LP-E6N is AUD88 and BHphoto has ~25% premium on the NH version).
> I will sell the card/strap after delivery... not sure how much the market thinks it is worth. Advertising a new (in demand) camera via a custom strap is asking for problems.
> Bundling a EOS-R mount adaptor instead would have been much more useful!



I didn’t look that closely. I assumed the card was a small cfexpress. That’s pretty average then!! 

Agree the adapter would be great, but I guess from a commercial perspective the camera is probably the bait to buy all new Rf glass. So bundling an adapter would be off strategy. 

I am going to hang out at least till the first major (cash off) promotion, if that’s 12 months that’s ok with me. Just hope the Aussie dollar doesn’t tank till then.


----------



## Jethro (Jul 10, 2020)

ericjon23 said:


> that 8k is a gimmick. R6 is the better buy.


One person's gimmick is another person's _Highly Innovative World First_.


----------



## mb66energy (Jul 10, 2020)

milkod2001 said:


> First of all: FIRST!!!
> 
> Any update on EU pricing? We all know it can get pretty weird with EU pricing even if there is around 20% VAT included, wonder how it will play out.
> 
> Canon EOS R6 Body $2499 sounds great but in EU pricing maybe €2800?Maybe a bit less?


It's 2631 in Germany - strange numbers because of temporary 3% VAT reduction - will be 2699 after that period.

Waiting for some R6 + 85mm combo @ 2 700 Euro


----------



## Twinix (Jul 10, 2020)

jayphotoworks said:


> here in Canada with the marquee features being essentially heat limited


You are in Canada. Take advantage of the situation..


----------



## Sharlin (Jul 10, 2020)

The preorder price of the R5 body only in Finland is 4849€, sheesh


----------



## dichterDichter (Jul 10, 2020)

1kind said:


> 2.5% from Rakuten
> 1% from Mr Rebates



not in Germany  But i also have to sell my sony stuff.


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 10, 2020)

1kind said:


> 2.5% from Rakuten
> 1% from Mr Rebates


In the UK there is a lens reward. For the RF 70-200MM its £255


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 10, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> At Canon AU store it goes for $7100 which was very frustrating to me, but I found it for $6588, also with battery and strap. My budget was at $6000 but ok, I stretched it. $7100 would have been too much.
> The card is useless, yes, but the battery is a must buy anyway. The control ring adaptor - that I'll try and get the cheapest/grey wherever possible.


Yeah, forget about the Canon AU website. Digidirect seems to be the cheapest. My budget was $5500 so I have really stretched. I need an adaptor, I didn't need another battery as I have a few LP-E3 batteries that I could use (yes I know that they have less capacity)
I will do without some other stuff... maybe even the CFe card for the moment. MSY has the cheapest UHS-II card prices I have found at AUD289/128GB. We don't know the sanctioned CFe cards yet ie which cards meet Canon's requirements for 8k/30 etc.
Let me know if you find a grey adapter as I can't find any. AUD170-180 is the cheapest





MSY-The name you can trust-More than 20 yrs In IT industry-Nationalwide branches serve you & offer the best IT price everyday. SanDisk Extreme Pro (SDSDXPK-128G-GN4IN) SDXC SDXPK 128GB UHS-II Secure Digital Flash Card


<p>Available: </p> <p>1. Online order and delivery. </p> <p>2. ALL Victoria Stores. </p> <p>Product with limited quantity. While stocks last. </p>




msy.com.au


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 10, 2020)

VegasCameraGuy said:


> I ordered my R5 + 24-70mmf2.8L at 5AM this morning PST. Does anyone know if there is a way to find out where you are on the preorder list?


Who knows, I ordered my R5 within a few minutes of the livestream starting after seeing the specs on CR and when I did live chat with the retailer, they confirmed there is no limit on pre orders but there is a limit on the 1st tranche of deliveries from canon but he wouldn't say how many that was, only that I was fairly near the top, so hopefully will be in the 1st tranche.

I think the UK may have been a little more rigid with the embargo of not listing anything before the day and only released things when the live stream started, so almost no chance they will give me any more detail.  

The good news is they gave me a decent price for the R I traded in, only about £50 less than the quote they gave me 3 months ago. The bad news is, I will be without a camera from 20/07/20 for a few weeks until the R5 arrives, whenever that will be? Thats going to be purgatory but when all said and done, it's hardly 3rd world issues.


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 10, 2020)

Flamingtree said:


> I didn’t look that closely. I assumed the card was a small cfexpress. That’s pretty average then!!
> 
> Agree the adapter would be great, but I guess from a commercial perspective the camera is probably the bait to buy all new Rf glass. So bundling an adapter would be off strategy.
> 
> I am going to hang out at least till the first major (cash off) promotion, if that’s 12 months that’s ok with me. Just hope the Aussie dollar doesn’t tank till then.


With the currency dip in March, the RF gear went up in price locally... it hasn't come back down when the currency improved to basically the same as before. some definite money taking at the moment. In some ways I don't blame them but still....


----------



## Chris.Chapterten (Jul 10, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> With the currency dip in March, the RF gear went up in price locally... it hasn't come back down when the currency improved to basically the same as before. some definite money taking at the moment. In some ways I don't blame them but still....


It's so frustrating when that happens... increase prices quickly when the dollar drops... but leave them alone when the dollar recovers grrrr


----------



## navastronia (Jul 10, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> Yup, some of the non-IS lenses like the 28-70 and 85 1.2 have larger image circles that allow for more IBIS stabilization (similar to how the wider RF mount gives more stops than Sony's more narrow E mount). However, I'm thinking the 28-70 is only going to be 8 stops at 70mm. At 50mm, it will probably equal the 50 1.2, and at 28 will probably be the least effective – unless somehow the R5 sensor microlens design is better at resolving the angle of light from wider focal lengths than the R is.



Color me . . . extremely surprised. With a lens that's already f/1.2, this opens the door to unbelievable handheld nighttime portraits, as long as the subject holds still.


----------



## pzyber (Jul 10, 2020)

I won't preorder the R5 here in Sweden even though I can afford it.
$5653 or 5016€ for the R5 in the stores here, have to look for options abroad.


----------



## AlanF (Jul 10, 2020)

The R5 and new lenses do look really good and I have recurring gas attacks. But, logging in to https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/ gives immediate deflation because I won't be going anywhere where I would use them for quite a while.


----------



## briangus (Jul 10, 2020)

No pre order in Thailand for any of the cameras or lenses.
Will probably be closer to end of year before we see anything.
Just checked prices in Singapore store I use and they are quoting the Canon msrp S$6199 for pre order.
Used to always be 7-10% less on anything I bought previously.

Wait to see what comes first, flight to Singapore or buy locally.


----------



## Flamingtree (Jul 10, 2020)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> It's so frustrating when that happens... increase prices quickly when the dollar drops... but leave them alone when the dollar recovers grrrr



It’s from the Apple playbook.


----------



## caffetin (Jul 10, 2020)

milkod2001 said:


> First of all: FIRST!!!
> 
> Any update on EU pricing? We all know it can get pretty weird with EU pricing even if there is around 20% VAT included, wonder how it will play out.
> 
> Canon EOS R6 Body $2499 sounds great but in EU pricing maybe €2800?Maybe a bit less?


See photospecialist.de ,eos r6 2,630.96 eur,eos r5 4,385.00 eur.


----------



## Gazwas (Jul 10, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> In the UK there is a lens reward. For the RF 70-200MM its £255


How does this discount work as the only place I could see it advertised was at Wex and their RF lens prices are higher than average to begin with.


----------



## Steve Dmark2 (Jul 10, 2020)

Didn't preorder anything.
Waiting on Reviews from Dustin and Jared.


----------



## Steve Dmark2 (Jul 10, 2020)

Steve Dmark2 said:


> Didn't preorder anything.
> Waiting on Reviews from Dustin and Jared.


Quoting my own post 
... and waiting for prices to make the first drop...


----------



## AlanF (Jul 10, 2020)

Gazwas said:


> How does this discount work as the only place I could see it advertised was at Wex and their RF lens prices are higher than average to begin with.


Just sign in to CPS and register (other UK dealers have the same link). WEX is a very reliable company to deal with.


----------



## Gazwas (Jul 10, 2020)

AlanF said:


> Just sign in to CPS and register (other UK dealers have the same link). WEX is a very reliable company to deal with.


Yes, Wex are great and get all my gear from them including my R5 pre order but their RF lens prices seem pretty high at the moment.


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 10, 2020)

Gazwas said:


> How does this discount work as the only place I could see it advertised was at Wex and their RF lens prices are higher than average to begin with.


Hi, this is a Canon offer so not specific to any retailer. Most of the retailers have links built into their sites and product pages. I saw this at Clifton Cameras and then questioned the detail direct with Canon, who provided me with this link.






Lens Cashback - Enjoy a reward on compatible lenses - Canon UK


Enjoy up to £370 as a reward on selected compatible lenses when you buy any of the selected cameras and match it with the lens you need to capture that perfect moment.




www.canon.co.uk





I think you should be able to use this to register any lenses or bodies you purchase that qualify. at the moment, the R5 & R6 are not listed but hopefully they will be soon.

I always look at various retailers including Wex when buying as it's swings and roundabouts with prices, sometimes they are more expensive, sometimes cheaper. But they do sometimes price match if there is a mainstream retailer offering the same product. They did this for me with a Peak design everyday backpack.

Good luck.


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 10, 2020)

AlanF said:


> Just sign in to CPS and register (other UK dealers have the same link). WEX is a very reliable company to deal with.


I'd love to know what you did and if you are an existing CPS member as when I used the link to claim the free adapter, as I am an existing CPS member, there were no offers. I've raised this with the retailer and Canon as even though I don't have any EF lenses having been totally on RF glass since buying the R, it's always good to have it for any re sale value


----------



## scyrene (Jul 10, 2020)

jayphotoworks said:


> It will depend if it is oversampled I guess. Oversampled it will record for 30 mins and shut down for 10mins which will allow another 10mins. If it is binned or cropped, probably will not. But if that is the case, I’m spendIng almost $6k+ after taxes up here in Canada with the marquee features being essentially heat limited.
> 
> Panasonic knows this and the S1H runs all day long and is Netflix certified. I get the sense Sony (at least based on recent rumors) knows this as well since it was somehow important enough to leak ahead of anything else, aside from the EVF resolution.
> 
> ...



When the 8K rumour first emerged, few believed it. And fewer still thought it would be for more than a very short recording time due to heat issues. I think if 20 minutes had been touted at the start, people would have been amazed. It's a shame it won't work for you, but it's still far better than anyone would have predicted before this year.


----------



## Eclipsed (Jul 10, 2020)

kten said:


> You may not be taking into account the dailies are often longer than the final cut scene, not by that much but it adds up when you consider not every scene is done in one take either. Plus you may have other scenes and so on. Thus you could still hit overheating filming for final output that is sub 5 minutes tops. Also nearly every single person I know filming 8K or 4K outputs to 1080p generally with some 1440p and 4K and 8K is never the intended final res delivered. Mostly not crop and stabilisation being primary motivation, although they are important it is often for the downsampling from higher is more favourable qualitywise than filming at that res.
> 
> I do think it is ott for talking head stuff I can think of BUT I don't know exactly what he is filming for, for what clients and final viewing intentions. Those considered it could be demanded almost. We often assume based on our use and limited details what we think others need, we are often off the mark when we do that thus I try not to. If he say he needs it maybe he does.
> 
> For me one of the things I like most about Canon is they are conservative and it just works when you want it to and under all conditions typical of the niche it is aimed at. If I wanted spec sheet monsters other companies do that well and my primary reason for avoiding sony is the great value and features but at cost of overheating and not always just work. Don't get me wrong the R5 is looking great but I'd prefer more bulk and slightly less sealing for the sake of more cooling as if I need sealing there are plenty of housing solutions. Or go the accessories route and add a metal coldfinger passive heatsink that you can connect active cooling to externally like some astro and niche sensors have where you can mount active pelt effect or air cooling solutions to the exposed metal on the exterior of shell that is directly connected to the internal cold finger.



The simple solution is more than one body, and a chiller for the one that's cooling down. Like swapping out batteries instead of shutting down waiting for your only battery to recharge. Even a little forced air tent, powered by a camera battery, would reduce recovery time.


----------



## sanj (Jul 10, 2020)

pmjm said:


> I'm not the person you were replying to, but my biggest worry is overheating at 8K/24p/IPB when shooting talking-head stuff or interviews, which can often go an hour or more. I'm used to having to pause to reset the recording after 30 minutes or change a memory card, but now we're talking 30 minutes of downtime between shots.
> 
> The way I'm justifying the purchase to myself is by remembering that the camera shoots 4K/24 with better IQ/AF and a leaner codec than my 1DX2 or 5D4 and the ability to shoot 8K or 4K/120p is a bonus.


Why so presumptuous? Why so insecure? It will be fine for sure...


----------



## Colorado (Jul 10, 2020)

navastronia said:


> Really?? I didn’t see that.


Posted this in another thread but from the dprewiew.com initial R5 review:


8 stops
24-70mm F2.8L
24-105mm F4L
24-105mm F4-7.1
28-70mm F2L
85mm F1.2L
85mm F2 Macro
7.5 stops
70-200mm F2.8L
7 stops
15-35mm F2.8L
35mm F1.8 IS
50mm F1.2L
6.5 stops
24-240mm F4-6.3
6 stops
100-500mm F4.5-7.1L


----------



## Troll Warlord (Jul 10, 2020)

Nothing new for EU prices?
If it really is priced 4700€ it's cheaper to travel to Colorado and get one there (ofc I know warrancy etc. but would be fun).


----------



## jayphotoworks (Jul 10, 2020)

scyrene said:


> When the 8K rumour first emerged, few believed it. And fewer still thought it would be for more than a very short recording time due to heat issues. I think if 20 minutes had been touted at the start, people would have been amazed. It's a shame it won't work for you, but it's still far better than anyone would have predicted before this year.



Dont get me wrong. It is a phenomenal release. I don’t care so much about the 8K thermals as I had a feeling it was going to be heat limited in some form. But I didn’t expect such limited performance in 4K as well.

A crazy idea, but I wonder if Canon could have somehow created an R5 body with a heat pipe and an optional battery grip with an integrated fan that can somehow transfer the heat away. Then the video shooter like myself could get extended shooting performance and the stills shooter could get the regular traditional grip all without compromising the weather sealing of the body.


----------



## mpmark (Jul 10, 2020)

I expected a beefy price in CAD but for me to walk out the door with one they'll ask for $6101 after taxes in Canada! Didnt think i'd be blowing 6k though. Are they making up for their losses of Covid? This is getting rediculously expensive to stay in the 5-line camera family, I've owned all from the very first 5D, and each release the price goes up substantially. The only way you'll get one at a better price is wait a year or so, but since the 5Div being release in 2016 the wait is long overdue so this is a tough decision. Now I have to justify 6k is worth blowing for a camera.


----------



## drama (Jul 10, 2020)

I love that the best anyone can do to attack this release is "but only 20 minutes shooting in 8K? LOL CANONFAIL"

Why you would need to continuously shoot 8k is beyond me. As a film maker, there are maybe a few specific instances (generally during live capture) where it would be useful, so you could cut down into the frame in multiple places or zoom around the shot. Anyone who sees 20 minutes with 8K as a dealbreaker on that package clearly wasn't going to buy it to begin with.

It's a data capture monster. From everything that's come out in the last 24 hours, it's apparent the R5 is massive step up. GASed up fanboys who now have nothing new to chase feel deflated as everything was spoiled early. But I'm willing to bet the majority of the audience - the people who don't vulture-pick every spec and construct problems they didn't have in the first place to explain why it isn't _quite_ good enough for them - will have pre-ordered in droves.

If it's not for you, then fine. But between the 5 & 6, Canon just slapped two massive target markets with hugely compelling offerings. Plus there's legendary glass to put on both. I'm thrilled.


----------



## AlanF (Jul 10, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> I'd love to know what you did and if you are an existing CPS member as when I used the link to claim the free adapter, as I am an existing CPS member, there were no offers. I've raised this with the retailer and Canon as even though I don't have any EF lenses having been totally on RF glass since buying the R, it's always good to have it for any re sale value


I clicked the link on it and it wasn't working.Canon probably hasn't set it yet.


----------



## StevenA (Jul 10, 2020)

ericjon23 said:


> that 8k is a gimmick. R6 is the better buy.


It WAS too big of a leap to expect there wouldn't be issues. I wasn't interested b/c of the 8k so I'm still a buyer. I want the 45mp, 12/20 fps, IBIS, eye tracking for humans and animals and a few other goodies. For me it's still going to be an awesome camera.


----------



## mpmark (Jul 10, 2020)

DT3019 said:


> Pre-order price is AUD$7,099 in Australia according to “canon.com.au“ website! Yes, this includes the 10% GST or federal sales tax of Australia. But, OMG... I am sure it’s worth every cent, but, goodness me, good luck finding both professionals and advanced amateurs with the cash to buy these in the COVID era!
> 
> Around AUD$5,499 to AUD$5,699 may have been a little more palatable! In a time where ‘pro-work’ is drying up, newspapers are shutting down and people are losing their jobs - these will not sell like hot cakes!



yeah, that's just crazy, feel bad for you guys, in Canada its $6101 taxes out the door, which I still think is ridiculous! and our currency is very similar. The 5dIV cost me $4600 out the door at release. 5DIII was $3600 out the door


----------



## Gazwas (Jul 10, 2020)

jayphotoworks said:


> But I didn’t expect such limited performance in 4K as well.


Canon stressed this in the release that the R5 is a hybrid shooters camera but people are barking on about this overheating issue like it's a fully fledged cinema camera.

If your main purpose is to shoot video, you're looking at the totally wrong type of camera IMO especially when it costs £4200.

I can imagine all the YouTube click bait titles with images of R5's in flames already......

Yet, people will still buy the R5 in their droves and produce some amazing looking stills photography, HD, 4K, 4K120 and 8K video all without their cameras having a total melt down.


----------



## Graphic.Artifacts (Jul 10, 2020)

Gazwas said:


> Canon stressed this in the release that the R5 is a hybrid shooters camera but people are barking on about this overheating issue like it's a fully fledged cinema camera.
> 
> If your main purpose is to shoot video, you're looking at the totally wrong type of camera IMO especially when it costs £4200.
> 
> I can imagine all the YouTube click bait titles with images of R5's in flames already......Yet, people will still buy the R5 in their droves and produce some amazing looking stills photography, HD, 4K, 4K120 and 8K video all without their cameras having a total melt down.


Yes, I think we've found our DR for the 2020's. Sony trolls will now drone on endlessly about heating issues even though the R's only have thermal issues when doing things that are imposible with the Sony's (and Panasonic's). Get ready for it because it's coming.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jul 10, 2020)

I actually preordered at https://www.camerapro.com.au/canon-eos-r5-mirrorless-body-only.html

before they introduced a deal with a free adapter and reduced the price by $40. A couple of hours later, they wrote me I'd get the free adapter and a $40 refund. It won't be the control ring one but that's not a big deal, overall it looks ok.
Will be looking for memory cards closer to the delivery date.
Btw you're right, I searched for grey adapters and couldn't find good options in Australia. There's one with control ring for about $300 on ebay from China.



David - Sydney said:


> Yeah, forget about the Canon AU website. Digidirect seems to be the cheapest. My budget was $5500 so I have really stretched. I need an adaptor, I didn't need another battery as I have a few LP-E3 batteries that I could use (yes I know that they have less capacity)
> I will do without some other stuff... maybe even the CFe card for the moment. MSY has the cheapest UHS-II card prices I have found at AUD289/128GB. We don't know the sanctioned CFe cards yet ie which cards meet Canon's requirements for 8k/30 etc.
> Let me know if you find a grey adapter as I can't find any. AUD170-180 is the cheapest
> 
> ...


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 10, 2020)

AlanF said:


> I clicked the link on it and it wasn't working.Canon probably hasn't set it yet.


I've mentioned this to the retailer and to Canon and since then & clicked on the retailer link again which now reveals two options, one for signing up and one for existing members to claim the free adapter. However when you click on the existing members option, it comes up saying the page is under construction and will be available soon.

I'm sure it will be up and running soon but it makes me smile when companies do things like this and then it doesn't work because it's still being finished. It's not like Canon didn't know they were going to announce these cameras and must have agreed the offers at some point. I can imagine the offer department, 'what there's an offer your going to give' where did that come from, we'd better get something sorted out then. Oh by the way, it won't be ready for when you tell people they can have it, is that OK???  I bet it's inundated when it actually goes live and 100% they will not have sufficient stock for the number of people making claims which could be an issue with the end of august being the deadline for claims.

I'll go and sit in a dark room now and stop being grumpy and grouchy lol.


----------



## Gazwas (Jul 10, 2020)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> Yes, I think we've found our DR for the 2020's.


I don't think we are over the "Canon DR limitations" doom sayers yet. When people find out its still not up to the Sony A7RII from 2015 that drone will start all over again for sure.


----------



## scyrene (Jul 10, 2020)

jayphotoworks said:


> Dont get me wrong. It is a phenomenal release. I don’t care so much about the 8K thermals as I had a feeling it was going to be heat limited in some form. But I didn’t expect such limited performance in 4K as well.
> 
> A crazy idea, but I wonder if Canon could have somehow created an R5 body with a heat pipe and an optional battery grip with an integrated fan that can somehow transfer the heat away. Then the video shooter like myself could get extended shooting performance and the stills shooter could get the regular traditional grip all without compromising the weather sealing of the body.



I think it's reasonable to assume 8K will be included in future cameras, and they will work on heat management one way or another. Perhaps the next generation of cinema cameras will do it better.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jul 10, 2020)

Gazwas said:


> I can imagine all the YouTube click bait titles with images of R5's in flames already......



there's already


----------



## mppix (Jul 10, 2020)

mpmark said:


> I expected a beefy price in CAD but for me to walk out the door with one they'll ask for $6101 after taxes in Canada! Didnt think i'd be blowing 6k though. Are they making up for their losses of Covid? This is getting rediculously expensive to stay in the 5-line camera family, I've owned all from the very first 5D, and each release the price goes up substantially. The only way you'll get one at a better price is wait a year or so, but since the 5Div being release in 2016 the wait is long overdue so this is a tough decision. Now I have to justify 6k is worth blowing for a camera.



Inflation but 5-line camera retail prices increased less than rent


----------



## Graphic.Artifacts (Jul 10, 2020)

Gazwas said:


> I don't think we are over the "Canon DR limitations" doom sayers yet. When people find out its still not up to the Sony A7RII from 2015 that drone will start all over again for sure.


We'll see. Canon's recent sensors have been testing extremely well. Not that reality has anything to do with it.

edit: Even at DXO, who had to admit that their totally fictitious original 1DX III review was flawed and rated the sensor too low. They have now replaced that with a new totally fictitious review that rates it substantially higher. Presumably because anyone with a lick of sense could see their results were off.


----------



## Anthny (Jul 10, 2020)

Any news on the high resolution "R5s" or what ever it will be called?


----------



## mppix (Jul 10, 2020)

Anthny said:


> Any news on the high resolution "R5s" or what ever it will be called?


It has 180MP and shoots 16K/7.5fps RAW video


----------



## jedy (Jul 10, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> there's already


Well, the limitations were bound to come out at some point. The info on that video about record time limitations is quite significant. Naughty Canon getting everyone’s hopes up for a flawless 8K/4K 120p camera.


----------



## Anthny (Jul 10, 2020)

mppix said:


> It has 180MP and shoots 16K/7.5fps RAW video


Have you got a reference to this info?


----------



## blackcoffee17 (Jul 10, 2020)

jedy said:


> Well, the limitations were bound to come out at some point. The info on that video about record time limitations is quite significant. Naughty Canon getting everyone’s hopes up for a flawless 8K/4K 120p camera.



I think its unreasonable to expect 8K or 4K 120p to have unlimited recording and no heating issues. Who wants to take 30 minute 8K videos. Its great for small clips or even proper movies with multiple shots. Not made for 2 hour interviews.

The 4K30p time limit and overheating is more serious but its essentially reading and converting 8K data so understandable.


----------



## mppix (Jul 10, 2020)

blackcoffee17 said:


> The 4K30p time limit and overheating is more serious but its essentially reading and converting 8K data so understandable.


We shall see.
I'd expect 4K/30 and maybe 4K/60 options without time limitation whatsoever.


----------



## WriteLight (Jul 10, 2020)

My B&H R5 order is now showing as "backordered" in the order status. I was refreshing their site and literally bought it the second it was available for sale. It is now badged on B&H as their "#1 seller"...is it possible they sold out of their pre-order allotment in less than a minute or is this how they are showing all pre-orders?


----------



## highdesertmesa (Jul 10, 2020)

WriteLight said:


> My B&H R5 order is now showing as "backordered" in the order status. I was refreshing their site and literally bought it the second it was available for sale. It is now badged on B&H as their "#1 seller"...is it possible they sold out of their pre-order allotment in less than a minute or is this how they are showing all pre-orders?



Your pre-order status will change from in progress to backordered once processed. It will stay as backordered until received and shipped. Completely different from seeing backordered status on the product page and no longer seeing a preorder button.


----------



## 1D4 (Jul 10, 2020)

Is there a compatible wired remote shutter for the R5 yet? I've been looking around and can't find any information. I assume you may be able to use a phone, but that's not an option for me, since I am in water quite a bit, and don't want to risk my phone dropping (also to have a free hand in case my tripod loses its footing).


----------



## Richard Anthony (Jul 10, 2020)

Anyone else ordered the new cooling fan lens


----------



## Eclipsed (Jul 10, 2020)

Rumor:
Canon also has a secret 8k R5 system upgrade that allows 8k shooting without more than momentary cool-down interruptions. Available only to insiders.

But it costs $7798, weighs twice as much, and take up twice as much space.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 10, 2020)

1D4 said:


> Is there a compatible wired remote shutter for the R5 yet? I've been looking around and can't find any information. I assume you may be able to use a phone, but that's not an option for me, since I am in water quite a bit, and don't want to risk my phone dropping (also to have a free hand in case my tripod loses its footing).


It has an N3 port.


----------



## Baron_Karza (Jul 10, 2020)

WriteLight said:


> My B&H R5 order is now showing as "backordered" in the order status. I was refreshing their site and literally bought it the second it was available for sale. It is now badged on B&H as their "#1 seller"...is it possible they sold out of their pre-order allotment in less than a minute or is this how they are showing all pre-orders?


Probably #1 seller on a day to day or weekly basis. Not sold out.


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## 1D4 (Jul 10, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> It has an N3 port.



Great, thank you!


----------



## jedy (Jul 10, 2020)

blackcoffee17 said:


> I think its unreasonable to expect 8K or 4K 120p to have unlimited recording and no heating issues. Who wants to take 30 minute 8K videos. Its great for small clips or even proper movies with multiple shots. Not made for 2 hour interviews.
> 
> The 4K30p time limit and overheating is more serious but its essentially reading and converting 8K data so understandable.


I like your mature and sensible approach to the limitations. Unfortunately some people (prematurely) assumed the R5 would be unlimited recording and were talking about downsampled to 4K videos with the ability to crop/pan/zoom. It’s worth remembering high end hybrid stills/video cameras aren’t substitutes for cine cameras (assuming there’s a budget for such cameras) as they will be limited in one way or another in comparison. It’s not too bad though as long as you don’t need long recording times for, say, live event recording or long interviews. I still think Canon should have been more upfront about the limitations because many people got their hopes up when the specs were first leaked and it was never like we wouldn’t find out eventually.


----------



## WriteLight (Jul 10, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> Your pre-order status will change from in progress to backordered once processed. It will stay as backordered until received and shipped. Completely different from seeing backordered status on the product page and no longer seeing a preorder button.


Thank you!!


----------



## Bert63 (Jul 10, 2020)

WriteLight said:


> Thank you!!



I saw this on the page at B&H and wondered about it but decided not to worry about it.

I'm already climbing the walls wanting this thing to get here so no sense getting myself even more would up over nothing.

I keep telling myself 'it will be here when it gets here' but that doesn't seem to be working very well.

I own several cameras. Some could say I have a problem. I wouldn't argue with them. I will say that I haven't been this excited to get a camera in my hands since I stepped up from my 40D to my 7D2.

I couldn't wait.

This is worse.


----------



## StevenA (Jul 10, 2020)

barrytakespictures said:


> Pre-Ordered...time to get rid of my 7D2 and #FullFrameForever


You will NEVER go crop again.


----------



## Kit. (Jul 10, 2020)

mppix said:


> It has 180MP and shoots 16K/7.5fps RAW video


No, that's a Sony. They will call it "fast-mo".


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Jul 10, 2020)

Just finished my Pre-order at my local shop and there are 15 people in front of me and it is a small shop. That is 96k Canadian in pre-orders. If they all go through that seems like this might be a pretty successful release from Canon.


----------



## Baron_Karza (Jul 10, 2020)

jedy said:


> I like your mature and sensible approach to the limitations. Unfortunately some people (prematurely) assumed the R5 would be unlimited recording and were talking about downsampled to 4K videos with the ability to crop/pan/zoom. It’s worth remembering high end hybrid stills/video cameras aren’t substitutes for cine cameras (assuming there’s a budget for such cameras) as they will be limited in one way or another in comparison. It’s not too bad though as long as you don’t need long recording times for, say, live event recording or long interviews. I still think Canon should have been more upfront about the limitations because many people got their hopes up when the specs were first leaked and it was never like we wouldn’t find out eventually.



One of the main problem I have with this is that Canon have always been stating that they do not want to put out unreliable products. They'd rather have lower specs that always worked. I recall them once stating this in regards to overheating. 

The other main concern is that they should not have some unpredictable situation occur. They say if the temp is higher than 73, it will overheat and shut down faster. Instead, there should be a minimum time limit before it shuts down, no matter what the temp is. How is one to figure out when it will shut down when they are outside filming in the summer (or any day if you are in warmer climate areas)? But I understand that if you are in the snow, that limit would be higher, so having a limiter would not be good. So how about a way to turn that limiter on off through a setting. I would not want to have it just shut down on me and I lose footage! So why not have a warning (beep/flash) with a countdown timer to give you some idea when it's time to wrap it up?

I mentioned months ago that Canon could have create a little opening (that can be removed when you know you don't need the weather sealing) to allow the heat to escape. It wouldn't have been difficult to do.


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Jul 10, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> One of the main problem I have with this is that Canon have always been stating that they do not want to put out unreliable products. They'd rather have lower specs that always worked. I recall them once stating this in regards to overheating.



Overheating that craters the camera is what I would call unreliable, a system the warns the user that it system is reaching its heat threshold and shuts itself down if ignored to prevent damage is not unreliable in my books. I test Camera's max heat tolerances all the time and if a camera fails to protect itself that is considered a failure.

I was a bit surprised that they released a camera that has a built in fail-over point but after thinking about it I think it is brilliant. They get all the hype of 8K and pretty much no locked out features and they still protect their Cinema line of cameras.

For me the R5 is perfect as I take video clip of 5 mins max at the extreme end, most of my clips are 30sec. I will be a bit disappointed if at 4K 24P it cannot hit the 29:59 limit, but again it will not impact my work at all.


----------



## FrenchFry (Jul 10, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> I mentioned months ago that Canon could have create a little opening (that can be removed when you know you don't need the weather sealing) to allow the heat to escape. It wouldn't have been difficult to do.



Easy solution : just open up all the existing doors/seals while shooting to activate self-cooling mode. Your battery might fall out eventually, but at least it will be cool.


----------



## FrenchFry (Jul 10, 2020)

Richard Anthony said:


> Anyone else ordered the new cooling fan lens
> View attachment 191263


USM or STM?
I was planning on carrying around a cooler with ice packs at all times, but this seems like a more elegant solution.


----------



## StevenA (Jul 10, 2020)

Everyone is freaking out about the R5 heat issues when recording 4k and 8k vids. Nobody is talking about the fact that most users are going to run out of card space LONG BEFORE the heating issues become issues.

Unless you are a professional and you've got 3 or 4 one Terabyte CFExpress cards to shove into the camera so you can keep recording this isn't likely to affect too many people. Not to mention the hard drives you'd have to start buying. And if you are a professional and you can afford 3 or 4 one Terabyte CFExpress cards then you probably should have saved that cash and bought a REAL cinema camera to begin with.


----------



## bytebuster (Jul 10, 2020)

Out of curiosity, will the R6 be manufactured in Japan? Also, any indication from canon on initial supply for R6


----------



## iheartcanon (Jul 10, 2020)

So what does everyone think about the most recent rumoured specs of the Sony A7sII after seeing the limitations / issues with the R5?

And to be clear if my username didn't alrady make it so, I am a canon user and have no interest in going to Sony.

Purely curious of the opinions of others also considering or getting the R5.









RUMOR: Sony A7sII successor records FHD 240fps, 4k120fps 10bit 4:2:2 and 4K120fps raw over HDMI - sonyalpharumors


We got some more info about the A7sII recording capabilities: FHD 240fps, 4k120fps 10bit 4:2:2 and 4K120fps raw over HDMI. Rumored A7sII successor specs so far: records FHD 240fps, 4k120fps 10bit 4:2:2 and 4K120fps raw over HDMI Looks pretty similar to a Sony A7rIV. world’s highest resolution...




www.sonyalpharumors.com


----------



## FrenchFry (Jul 10, 2020)

blackcoffee17 said:


> I think its unreasonable to expect 8K or 4K 120p to have unlimited recording and no heating issues. Who wants to take 30 minute 8K videos. Its great for small clips or even proper movies with multiple shots. Not made for 2 hour interviews.



What if I want the option of zooming in on my interviewee's nose hairs in post? 

I am beginning to think that I will need a new computer as an add on accessory to my R5 to process the huge files!


----------



## seasonascent (Jul 10, 2020)

Wski said:


> Is IPB on the R6 a big deal? I’m on a T3i (I know, sorry). I’m a woodworker, so I focus primarily on stills for my online store and social media, but I’ve recently started making some income on YouTube since I started posting videos of my builds. I don’t know much about All-I compared to IPB, or if it’s even worth thinking about. I would like that “cinematic” look, and wonder about color grading IPB, etc. Thanks for any advice or information. I got up at 4:50am to watch the release. Woo.


Hey mate, not sure if anyone has answered this for you (couldn't be bothered scrolling through haha). Basically All-I and IPB are two different ways of compressing the frames in the video file. Putting it very simply, All-i will be a higher quality file with more data and less compression. I always shoot All-i for anything that needs to be quality, unless I'm filming something long-form where I'm mindful of memory capacity such as wedding speeches, then I'll briefly swap over to IPB.


----------



## bytebuster (Jul 10, 2020)

Is Long GOP (for example on fuji) same as IPB?


----------



## StoicalEtcher (Jul 10, 2020)

StevenA said:


> Everyone is freaking out about the R5 heat issues when recording 4k and 8k vids. Nobody is talking about the fact that most users are going to run out of card space LONG BEFORE the heating issues become issues.
> 
> Unless you are a professional and you've got 3 or 4 one Terabyte CFExpress cards to shove into the camera so you can keep recording this isn't likely to affect too many people. Not to mention the hard drives you'd have to start buying. And if you are a professional and you can afford 3 or 4 one Terabyte CFExpress cards then you probably should have saved that cash and bought a REAL cinema camera to begin with.


Very well said!!


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 10, 2020)

seasonascent said:


> Hey mate, not sure if anyone has answered this for you (couldn't be bothered scrolling through haha). Basically All-I and IPB are two different ways of compressing the frames in the video file. Putting it very simply, All-i will be a higher quality file with more data and less compression. I always shoot All-i for anything that needs to be quality, unless I'm filming something long-form where I'm mindful of memory capacity such as wedding speeches, then I'll briefly swap over to IPB.


So do you use 24p or a higher rate?


----------



## Gazwas (Jul 10, 2020)

iheartcanon said:


> So what does everyone think about the most recent rumoured specs of the Sony A7sII after seeing the limitations / issues with the R5?
> 
> And to be clear if my username didn't alrady make it so, I am a canon user and have no interest in going to Sony.
> 
> ...


Sonyalpharumours is just about the worst rumour site I have ever had the misfortune of reading and have next to zero insight into the inner workings of Sony's camera division. They claim anything and everything with the wild hope that at least some of the rubbish the site spouts out actually comes true. The only time to get any solid info about a camera release or spec list from that site is normally 24hrs before an actual announcement when the rest of the web knows it too.

The fact S now stands for supreme rather than sensitivity is a sign that what ever Sony do, it will cost a lot more and be a solid 4k video camera and little else, unlike the way Canon see's the R5.


----------



## Baron_Karza (Jul 10, 2020)

StevenA said:


> Everyone is freaking out about the R5 heat issues when recording 4k and 8k vids. Nobody is talking about the fact that most users are going to run out of card space LONG BEFORE the heating issues become issues.



So Wrong.

8K overheats at 20 mins - Capacity up to 1hr 12mins w/256GB card
4K overheats at 30-35 mins - Capacity up to 2hr 27 mins w/256 GB card

Those overheating times are at 73F/23C with best case scenarios
Good luck in the summer time (for me, that is all year long)
Good luck on your next tropical vacation
Good luck after it overheats and you need to wait 10-20 minutes just to have the limit reduced down to only 3-10 minutes (at MOST).




https://downloads.canon.com/nw/camera/products/eos/product-1/pdfs/EOSR5_specifications-JULY-10.pdf







Canon EOS R5 has serious overheating issues – in both 4K and 8K – EOSHD.com – Filmmaking Gear and Camera Reviews







www.eoshd.com





The era where Canon says that they won't put out camera that is unreliable is over. If you can't beat Sony, join them.


----------



## Bert63 (Jul 10, 2020)

iheartcanon said:


> So what does everyone think about the most recent rumoured specs of the Sony A7sII after seeing the limitations / issues with the R5?
> 
> And to be clear if my username didn't alrady make it so, I am a canon user and have no interest in going to Sony.
> 
> ...




We really won't know what actual limitations or issues are until we actually get the actual camera in the hands of actual users and let them actually use them in the actual manner that they will be used before we can determine what is actually going on.



But seriously - let the camera get out and get used and then we'll see what the real deal is and whether or not there is anything to be concerned about.

I'm of the mindset that if you're planning on using the R5 for professional video productions that might put you in a situation where heat might, possibly, maybe, but we won't really know until we actually get to use the camera, cause a problem, then maybe a stills/video camera wasn't the right choice.

Personally not caring about Sony whatsoever regardless of what they introduce and/or purpose. I'm so deep in my Canon investment (see signature) that I'm in for the long haul. I don't use my DSLRs or mirrorless cameras as video cameras, I use them to shoot clips. If I wanted a primary video camera, I'd buy one that is purpose suited.

That's just me. If the camera even has a heat problem I doubt I could afford the memory cards to run it that long.


----------



## Kit. (Jul 10, 2020)

bytebuster said:


> Is Long GOP (for example on fuji) same as IPB?


If it's All-I, there is no GOP ("group of pictures") at all. GOP is only meaningful when there are P and possibly B frames in addition to I frames.


----------



## Bert63 (Jul 10, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> So Wrong.
> 
> 8K overheats at 20 mins - Capacity up to 1hr 12mins w/256GB card
> 4K overheats at 30-35 mins - Capacity up to 2hr 27 mins w/256 GB card
> ...



I'll never shoot 20 mins or 35 mins respectively non-stop so the problem isn't a problem at all. Go enjoy Sony if that suits.


----------



## jayphotoworks (Jul 10, 2020)

Gazwas said:


> Sonyalpharumours is just about the worst rumour site I have ever had the misfortune of reading and have next to zero insight into the inner workings of Sony's camera devision. They claim anything and everything with the wild hope that at least some of the rubbish the site spouts out actually comes true. The only time to get any solid info about a camera release or spec list from that site is normally 24hrs before an actual announcement when the rest of the web knows it too.
> 
> The fact S now stands for supreme rather than sensitivity is a sign that what ever Sony do, it will cost a lot more and be a solid 4k video camera and little else, unlike the way Canon see's the R5.



You essentially pick your poison 

I'm speculating here, but one of the first 2 rumors on SAR talks about a passive cooling system, so I'm guessing Sony is trying to aim for a camera that can have almost unlimited run-times in most or all of its shooting modes. I would hazard a guess that would mean it will probably not have headlining specs like 8K or even 6K for that matter. It might simply aim for 4K120 or something like that.

So the decision will be this:

Do I buy the camera that has 4K120/60 and even oversampled 4K30 modes that are essentially heat limited with the option to do intermittent 8K RAW

or

Do I buy the camera that can shoot unlimited 4K120/60 (possibly oversampled), but not have 6K, 8K, etc.

Both will shoot binned 4K without overheating.


----------



## Bert63 (Jul 10, 2020)

StevenA said:


> Everyone is freaking out about the R5 heat issues when recording 4k and 8k vids. Nobody is talking about the fact that most users are going to run out of card space LONG BEFORE the heating issues become issues.
> 
> Unless you are a professional and you've got 3 or 4 one Terabyte CFExpress cards to shove into the camera so you can keep recording this isn't likely to affect too many people. Not to mention the hard drives you'd have to start buying. And if you are a professional and you can afford 3 or 4 one Terabyte CFExpress cards then you probably should have saved that cash and bought a REAL cinema camera to begin with.




So, so true.


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Jul 10, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> The era where Canon says that they won't put out camera that is *unreliable* is over. If you can't beat Sony, join them.



I do not think that means what you think it means


----------



## StevenA (Jul 10, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> So Wrong.
> 
> 8K overheats at 20 mins - Capacity up to 1hr 12mins w/256GB card
> 4K overheats at 30-35 mins - Capacity up to 2hr 27 mins w/256 GB card
> ...



Here are the recording specs:

*Raw 12-Bit*
DCI 8K (8192 x 4320) at 23.976p/24.00p/25p/29.97p [*2600 Mb/s*]
*H.265 4:2:2 10-Bit*
DCI 8K (8192 x 4320) at 23.976p/24.00p/25p/29.97p [680 to 1300 Mb/s]
UHD 8K (7680 x 4320) at 23.976p/25p/29.97p [680 to 1300 Mb/s]
DCI 4K (4096 x 2160) at 23.976p/24.00p/25p/29.97p/59.94p/100p/119.88p [170 to 1880 Mb/s]
UHD 4K (3840 x 2160) at 23.976p/25p/29.97p/50p/59.94p/100p/119.88p [170 to 1880 Mb/s]
Full HD (1920 x 1080) at 23.976p/25p/29.97p/50p/59.94p [28 to 230 Mb/s]
*H.264 4:2:0 8-Bit*
DCI 8K (8192 x 4320) at 23.976p/24.00p/25p/29.97p [470 to 1300 Mb/s]
UHD 8K (7680 x 4320) at 23.976p/25p/29.97p [470 to 1300 Mb/s]
DCI 4K (4096 x 2160) at 23.976p/24.00p/25p/29.97p/50p/59.94p/100p/119.88p [120 to 1880 Mb/s]
UHD 4K (3840 x 2160) at 23.976p/25p/29.97p/50p/59.94p/100p/119.88p [120 to 1880 Mb/s]
Full HD (1920 x 1080) at 23.976p/25p/29.97p/50p/59.94p [12 to 180 Mb/s] 

I'm not a mathematician so I could be wrong? But using DCI 8k @ 2600 Mb/s = 2.5 Gigs = 256GB card is full in a couple minutes tops?


----------



## Baron_Karza (Jul 10, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> I'll never shoot 20 mins or 35 mins respectively non-stop so the problem isn't a problem at all. Go enjoy Sony if that suits.


and you never shoot above 73F? If not, fine. But don't tell me what I should or should not buy.


----------



## Baron_Karza (Jul 10, 2020)

StevenA said:


> Here are the recording specs:
> 
> *Raw 12-Bit*
> DCI 8K (8192 x 4320) at 23.976p/24.00p/25p/29.97p [*2600 Mb/s*]
> ...



I got my numbers from the Canon website. I even provided the links.


----------



## JTPhotography (Jul 10, 2020)

Wonder if the R5 will do focus stacking like the RP?


----------



## Baron_Karza (Jul 10, 2020)

Ramage said:


> I do not think that means what you think it means
> View attachment 191268


Unpredictable. Whatever.


----------



## blackcoffee17 (Jul 10, 2020)

Gazwas said:


> Sonyalpharumours is just about the worst rumour site I have ever had the misfortune of reading and have next to zero insight into the inner workings of Sony's camera division. They claim anything and everything with the wild hope that at least some of the rubbish the site spouts out actually comes true. The only time to get any solid info about a camera release or spec list from that site is normally 24hrs before an actual announcement when the rest of the web knows it too.
> 
> The fact S now stands for supreme rather than sensitivity is a sign that what ever Sony do, it will cost a lot more and be a solid 4k video camera and little else, unlike the way Canon see's the R5.



Sonyalpharumours is probably the worst rumour website, if Canonrumors is New York Times, that website is a cheap daily tabloid.
Sony fanboys, especially on that website are also one of the worst on the internet. They are all like little children arguing who's toy is bigger and which lens is 
better because of extra 0.3 stop aperture. Makes me hate Sony products which i don't want so i will try to not go there anymore.


----------



## tpatana (Jul 10, 2020)

StevenA said:


> Here are the recording specs:
> 
> *Raw 12-Bit*
> DCI 8K (8192 x 4320) at 23.976p/24.00p/25p/29.97p [*2600 Mb/s*]
> ...



Yea I think he's wrong/troll, that 8k rate means 512GB card is full in 20 minutes.


----------



## tpatana (Jul 10, 2020)

tpatana said:


> Yea I think he's wrong/troll, that 8k rate means 512GB card is full in 20 minutes.



They have the non-raw rates too, quick calculation:
680Mb/s on 512GB = ~1h40 mins
1300Mb/s on 512GB = ~50 mins

So he's not completely wrong, he was just claiming the non-raw bitrates.


----------



## Bert63 (Jul 10, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> and you never shoot above 73F? If not, fine. But don't tell me what I should or should not buy.




I don't shoot long clips. Ever. If I did I'd buy a camera made for that. It rarely breaks 73 degrees up here, but it wouldn't matter.

I didn't tell you to do anything.

You said " If you can't beat Sony, join them." I said go ahead if that's what suits you.


----------



## mppix (Jul 10, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> Unpredictable. Whatever.



It is predictable as the camera seems to state exactly how much shooting time is left.
Try again.


----------



## Gazwas (Jul 10, 2020)

jayphotoworks said:


> You essentially pick your poison
> 
> I'm speculating here, but one of the first 2 rumors on SAR talks about a passive cooling system, so I'm guessing Sony is trying to aim for a camera that can have almost unlimited run-times in most or all of its shooting modes. I would hazard a guess that would mean it will probably not have headlining specs like 8K or even 6K for that matter. It might simply aim for 4K120 or something like that.
> 
> ...


Spot on!

The new A7s will not be the camera to choose if you wish to shoot high res stills and 4K motion at a wedding on the same camera.

I could pretty confidently guarantee after all this time in development it will however be a solid 4K mirrorless video camera.

What I would question though, is a mirrorless camera the best chassis choice for a professional video (only) camera in the first pace?

I've got nothing against Sony as I've happily used several versions of the A7r since 2015 while waiting for the Canon R5. If you can only use one camera, I think the R5 fits but with limitations. However, if you need hours upon hours of 4K60 footage nothing would beat keeping your current cameras and buying a C200 or FS5 which will happily shoot 4K all day long.


----------



## StevenA (Jul 10, 2020)

tpatana said:


> They have the non-raw rates too, quick calculation:
> 680Mb/s on 512GB = ~1h40 mins
> 1300Mb/s on 512GB = ~50 mins
> 
> So he's not completely wrong, he was just claiming the non-raw bitrates.



Like I said I'm not a great at math but the concepts I am presenting I think remain in tact.

A 512GB CFExpress card is how much money? I think a lot of people will probably buy a 256GB card for this camera as that is expensive enough. Leaving that group out of having to worry about heating issues really.


----------



## WriteLight (Jul 10, 2020)

StevenA said:


> Like I said I'm not a great at math but the concepts I am presenting I think remain in tact.
> 
> A 512GB CFExpress card is how much money? I think a lot of people will probably buy a 256GB card for this camera as that is expensive enough. Leaving that group out of having to worry about heating issues really.


Why, it's around the same cost as a RF 600 f/11!


----------



## wilsoncraft (Jul 10, 2020)

Anyone have a stimulus check you don’t plan cashing?  I have the R and like it and was eager to see an upgrade, but the R5 at $3899 is pretty steep. Maybe the RII or the R5 a year from now...
Or buy the R5 now and find a new wife next year.


----------



## jd7 (Jul 10, 2020)

wilsoncraft said:


> Anyone have a stimulus check you don’t plan cashing?  I have the R and like it and was eager to see an upgrade, but the R5 at $3899 is pretty steep. Maybe the RII or the R5 a year from now...
> Or buy the R5 now and find a new wife next year.


The R/RF gear seems fantastic in many ways, but from my point of view as a hobbyist, Canon is pricing itself out of the game. For example, R6 is about A$4400, RF 24-70 f/2.8L IS is about A$3650 and RF 70-200 f/2.8L IS is about A$4000, so that would be a A$12,050 setup. For comparison, Sony A7 III is about A$2950, Sigma 24-70 f.2.8 Art (for Sony) and Tamron 70-180 f/2.8 are about A$2150 each, so that would be a A$7250 setup. I would rather have the Canon gear (and yes, I realise the Canon lenses have IS which the lenses for the Sony don't, and that it is looking like Canon's IBIS is better than Sony's IBIS - and yes, I know you can adapt EF glass to the R system cameras), and in particular I would much rather have the ergonomics of the Canon R system bodies, but that price difference is too big for me to simply ignore. If I was keen to go mirrorless at this point, I think I would have to look hard at the Sony, as much as I wouldn't really want to. I am not in a rush to go mirrorless anyway, so it's a moot point for me at the moment, but still, Canon's pricing is certainly reducing my enthusiasm.

That's just me, of course. I'm sure Canon has done its market research and has good reason to believe the market will bear the prices its charging, so good luck to them. I suspect Canon will do well, as the gear does seem to be excellent.

PS - those prices are just from a quick online search. It may be possible to do better if you shop around. And I have ignored grey market import prices for now.


----------



## snappy604 (Jul 11, 2020)

so want to pre-order.. but here it's over 6k CAD$ post tax and that's without a lens!! if I want the lens to do it justice (24 or 28 - 70) + the cards etc.. 10k CAD$ 
I definitely need to be sure before ordering.. so no pre-order for me.


----------



## Gazwas (Jul 11, 2020)

jd7 said:


> The R/RF gear seems fantastic in many ways, by from my point of view as a hobbyist, Canon is pricing itself out of the game. For example, R6 is about A$4400, RF 24-70 f/2.8L IS is about A$3650 and RF 70-200 f/2.8L IS is about A$4000, so that would be a A$12,050 setup. For comparison, Sony A7 III is about A$2950, Sigma 24-70 f.2.8 Art (for Sony) and Tamron 70-180 f/2.8 are about A$2150 each, so that would be a A$7250 setup. I would rather have the Canon gear (and yes, I realise the Canon lenses have IS which the lenses for the Sony don't, and that it is looking like Canon's IBIS is better than Sony's IBIS - and yes, I know you can adapt EF glass to the R system cameras), and in particular I would much rather have the ergonomics of the Canon R system bodies, but that price difference is too big for me to simply ignore. If I was keen to go mirrorless at this point, I think I would have to look hard at the Sony, as much as I wouldn't really want to. I am not in a rush to go mirrorless anyway, so it's a moot point for me at the moment, but still, Canon's pricing is certainly reducing my enthusiasm.
> 
> That's just me, of course. I'm sure Canon has done its market research and has good reason to believe the market will bear the prices its charging, so good luck to them. I suspect Canon will do well, as the gear does seem to be excellent.
> 
> PS - those prices are just from a quick online search. It may be possible to do better if you shop around. And I have ignored grey market import prices for now.


I’m very lucky to make money from photography and video but from a hobbyists perspective the barriers to entry into photography are extremely high. The cost of cameras, lenses, memory cards, tripods, filters, bags and flashguns is getting higher and higher and the Canon R/RF system is living proof as £4K for a camera body in totally crazy. When I compare now to when I started photography as a hobby in the early 80’s and getting set up as a young boy was relatively affordable. An R6 is not the sort of thing most 10 year olds parents would dream of getting their son/daughter for Christmas. 

Technology, miniaturisation and R&D costs a lots of money and today’s cameras are a far cry from my simple Olympus OM10 with its button cell battery and manual film wind but it’s no wonder the camera market is shrinking at such a rapid rate when you consider we get a great stills (and video) camera for *FREE* with our mobile phones.


----------



## russb (Jul 11, 2020)

jd7 said:


> The R/RF gear seems fantastic in many ways, by from my point of view as a hobbyist, Canon is pricing itself out of the game. For example, R6 is about A$4400, RF 24-70 f/2.8L IS is about A$3650 and RF 70-200 f/2.8L IS is about A$4000, so that would be a A$12,050 setup. For comparison, Sony A7 III is about A$2950, Sigma 24-70 f.2.8 Art (for Sony) and Tamron 70-180 f/2.8 are about A$2150 each, so that would be a A$7250 setup. I would rather have the Canon gear (and yes, I realise the Canon lenses have IS which the lenses for the Sony don't, and that it is looking like Canon's IBIS is better than Sony's IBIS - and yes, I know you can adapt EF glass to the R system cameras), and in particular I would much rather have the ergonomics of the Canon R system bodies, but that price difference is too big for me to simply ignore. If I was keen to go mirrorless at this point, I think I would have to look hard at the Sony, as much as I wouldn't really want to. I am not in a rush to go mirrorless anyway, so it's a moot point for me at the moment, but still, Canon's pricing is certainly reducing my enthusiasm.
> 
> That's just me, of course. I'm sure Canon has done its market research and has good reason to believe the market will bear the prices its charging, so good luck to them. I suspect Canon will do well, as the gear does seem to be excellent.
> 
> PS - those prices are just from a quick online search. It may be possible to do better if you shop around. And I have ignored grey market import prices for now.



The Canon RP is available for $1000-$1100 US. Capable, full-frame, RF camera. With the EF-RF adapter, there are many inexpensive options for lenses. I use the sigma 14-24/2.8, with filter adapter, and it's brilliant. You might want to search more.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 11, 2020)

Gazwas said:


> I’m very lucky to make money from photography and video but from a hobbyists perspective the barriers to entry into photography are extremely high. The cost of cameras, lenses, memory cards, tripods, filters, bags and flashguns is getting higher and higher and the Canon R/RF system is living proof as £4K for a camera body in totally crazy. When I compare now to when I started photography as a hobby in the early 80’s and getting set up as a young boy was relatively affordable. An R6 is not the sort of thing most 10 year olds parents would dream of getting their son/daughter for Christmas.
> 
> Technology, miniaturisation and R&D costs a lots of money and today’s cameras are a far cry from my simple Olympus OM10 with its button cell battery and manual film wind but it’s no wonder the camera market is shrinking at such a rapid rate when you consider we get a great stills (and video) camera for *FREE* with our mobile phones.


Depends how you look at it really. Personally I think there are amazing bargains for people interested in actually taking compelling high quality images rather than people that buy in to the gotta’ have the newest, bestest, influencer driven toy. You can get a brand new 5DSr for under $1,400, kuhhji, used lenses offer similar bargains.


----------



## davo (Jul 11, 2020)

JTPhotography said:


> Wonder if the R5 will do focus stacking like the RP?
> [/QUOTEIts in the menu


----------



## highdesertmesa (Jul 11, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> So Wrong.
> 
> 8K overheats at 20 mins - Capacity up to 1hr 12mins w/256GB card
> 4K overheats at 30-35 mins - Capacity up to 2hr 27 mins w/256 GB card
> ...



Stop spreading the world's thinnest BS so thickly.

Real-world experience with 8K and 4K/120 in warm weather:


----------



## Jethro (Jul 11, 2020)

Man, this must be a great camera indeed if the only technical problem people can find after 24 hours dredging is a (semi-non-existent) overheating issue!


----------



## Baron_Karza (Jul 11, 2020)

Bert63 said:


> I don't shoot long clips. Ever. If I did I'd buy a camera made for that. It rarely breaks 73 degrees up here, but it wouldn't matter.
> 
> I didn't tell you to do anything.
> 
> You said " If you can't beat Sony, join them." I said go ahead if that's what suits you.



Sorry, got a little excited there. By joining Sony, I meant Canon joining Sony by doing the same thing.

I'm just trying to get the point across that I think we should be considering that this known heating issue, observed in a particular condition - a condition that we may never be in, could also be a problem in another condition not yet observed. In this case, we know that recording for 4K 30mins at 73F can cause it to shutdown. But you only do short clips. But maybe doing too may short clips in a period of time might also cause overheating? 

I just want you guys to be aware and think a little more into the overheating issue and if it's the right camera for you.

I will likely get the R6, because I am fine shooting in 1080. Would have bout the R when it came out but had no IBIS - that's way more important than having more resolution that 1080. But would be nice to play with 4k cropping ( I like to video surfers, music concerts...)

OK, I'll shut up about this heating issue.


----------



## Rideclick (Jul 11, 2020)

My question is: does the camera shutdown because of a temperature limit that's hit or a firmware setting or both? By both I mean if it hit's a temperature limit does the firmware make sure it doesn't record for 10 minutes meaning your stuck?


----------



## Baron_Karza (Jul 11, 2020)

mppix said:


> It is predictable as the camera seems to state exactly how much shooting time is left.
> Try again.


It's only predictable at 73F.


tpatana said:


> They have the non-raw rates too, quick calculation:
> 680Mb/s on 512GB = ~1h40 mins
> 1300Mb/s on 512GB = ~50 mins
> 
> So he's not completely wrong, he was just claiming the non-raw bitrates.



As i said, I got the numbers from the canon webpage. I even posted the link. Here is the link again (I clicked on the one I posted and for me it was a dead link, but when I copy/paste in the address box it takes you there). You can also go to the Canon product page and when you find the camera, click "Specifications" then "View Full Specifications" and then go to page 12: R6 Specs (OK, I see I need to use the Link feature to paste in the link, instead of pasting the link straight in as a post)

So I "tried "showing you again. No need for you guys in calling me names ("troll"). Just trying to help, but I won't anymore.


----------



## Baron_Karza (Jul 11, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> Stop spreading the world's thinnest BS so thickly.
> 
> Real-world experience with 8K and 4K/120 in warm weather:



I'm not going to write about the issue anymore, not because of you, but because I've already decided not to even before reading this.
This is the last reply directed to me about it, and I will not reply about this anymore.
I'd like to leave a comment about the B&H video, but I'll bite my tongue.


----------



## Tangent (Jul 11, 2020)

Just an idle thought here, Canon must have a pretty good idea of what the RF BWL's are gonna look like to release the TC's now. Presumably these TC's are designed to be fully compatible with these future lenses...


----------



## highdesertmesa (Jul 11, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> I'm not going to write about the issue anymore, not because of you, but because I've already decided not to even before reading this.
> This is the last reply directed to me about it, and I will not reply about this anymore.
> I'd like to leave a comment about the B&H video, but I'll bite my tongue.



That's cool. Reply. Don't reply. Whatever. I understand wanting to inform people about a potential issue, but once you start posting things like "well, good luck with XYZ", it makes it seem like you lost your objectivity.

I'm sure there will be people that run into getting the warning or close to it. But given that the limit of 20 minutes of 8K will completely fill the largest available 512 CFexpress card anyway, it kind of seems like a moot point.


----------



## StevenA (Jul 11, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> I'm not going to write about the issue anymore, not because of you, but because I've already decided not to even before reading this.
> This is the last reply directed to me about it, and I will not reply about this anymore.
> I'd like to leave a comment about the B&H video, but I'll bite my tongue.





highdesertmesa said:


> That's cool. Reply. Don't reply. Whatever. I understand wanting to inform people about a potential issue, but once you start posting things like "well, good luck with XYZ", it makes it seem like you lost your objectivity.
> 
> I'm sure there will be people that run into getting the warning or close to it. But given that the limit of 20 minutes of 8K will completely fill the largest available 512 CFexpress card anyway, it kind of seems like a moot point.



^This was my original point, though I was more long-winded in making it. Bottom line from my point of view is that while the heating issue *may* be a problem for some from time to time, I can't see it as an issue for the majority of people. And if some people are experiencing it on a consistent basis then maybe they made the wrong purchase and should have bought a cinema camera instead.


----------



## highdesertmesa (Jul 11, 2020)

Tangent said:


> Just an idle thought here, Canon must have a pretty good idea of what the RF BWL's are gonna look like to release the TC's now. Presumably these TC's are designed to be fully compatible with these future lenses...



I hope so. I would love to see an RF 200 f/2 and 300 2.8 sooner rather than later. Not impressed with how the RF TCs are supposed to work with the 100-500 at all (limited to retracting it to 300mm with the TCs attached).


----------



## StevenA (Jul 11, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> I hope so. I would love to see an RF 200 f/2 and 300 2.8 sooner rather than later. Not impressed with how the RF TCs are supposed to work with the 100-500 at all (limited to retracting it to 300mm with the TCs attached).



Yup. I was gonna spring for a 2x TC until I saw the price. Then when I saw the limitations with the 100-500 (which I DID buy) I was happy I didn't.


----------



## jd7 (Jul 11, 2020)

russb said:


> The Canon RP is available for $1000-$1100 US. Capable, full-frame, RF camera. With the EF-RF adapter, there are many inexpensive options for lenses. I use the sigma 14-24/2.8, with filter adapter, and it's brilliant. You might want to search more.


The RP is about A$1900 and its claim to fame is being a small and light full-frame camera. Unsurprisingly, Canon had to make compromises to make a small and light camera. As a camera for general use, I'd choose a 6D II (which is about the same price) over the RP without a second thought. They use the same sensor and the 6D II has higher FPS, etc, which I would prefer, not to mention the 6D II has much better battery life and an OVF (which I would much prefer over an EVF - although I look forward getting a chance to test the EVF in an R6 or R5 one day to see what I think). The way I see it, the only thing the RP would do is let me use RF lenses, which brings me back to them prices Canon is charging for them.

As for using an R system camera and EF lenses, yes that's an option, but a big part of the attraction in the R system is the RF lenses. For example, the idea of a 70-200 2.8 which is much smaller and lighter than my EF 70-200 is very appealing to me. But if I have a Sony body I can get the Tamron 70-180 2.8 (which I mentioned in an earlier post) for A$2150, while the Canon EF version doesn't give me the smaller size and lesser weight, and Canon RF 70-200 2.8 is $4000. A Canon EF 24-70 2.8 II is still A$2700, while the Sigma 24-70 2.8 Art for Sony is A$2150. Yes, I'd prefer the Canon gear (particulary and RF 70-200 2.8L IS) but the price difference is hard to ignore, especially given the great reviews those Sigma and Tamron lenses get. So, if I get an R system camera but stick with EF lenses, what I have got? Not much really (OK, sensor in the EOS R would be nice compared with my 6D II sensor) unless I go to an R5 or R6, but even the R6 is A$4400 and that becomes A$4700 if I add the control ring adapter, and the main things I'd get with an R6 are the mirrorless AF system (seems strange to be saying that - look how far mirrorless AF has come!), IBIS and a newer sensor (I'm not interested in video), at the cost of battery life, having to use an EVF (which I suspect I will still see as a negative, but of course I haven't tried out an R5 or R6 EVF yet so I will have to wait and see what I think), and even a bit of resolution (probably not critical but I'd prefer not lose it - I do like large prints). That's a significant amount of money to me, and I'm not sure the advantages of the R6 (nice as they may be) would really make _that _much difference to my photography. Then when you take into account that if I wanted to go mirrorless, I could get an A7 III (which may not be as good as the R6 but would give me at least some of what the R6 would give me) plus the Sigma 24-70 2.8 Art and Tamron 70-180 2.8 for about A$7250 all up, spending A$4700 on an R6 plus control ring adapter to keep using my existing lenses seems even harder to swallow. (The difference between A$4700 and A$7250 would be ameliorated by selling my existing comparable gear.)

So, the short point is I am aware of the RP, and the fact it is there doesn't change my opinion form what I said in my earlier post.


----------



## navastronia (Jul 11, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> Sorry, got a little excited there. By joining Sony, I meant Canon joining Sony by doing the same thing.
> 
> I'm just trying to get the point across that I think we should be considering that this known heating issue, observed in a particular condition - a condition that we may never be in, could also be a problem in another condition not yet observed. In this case, we know that recording for 4K 30mins at 73F can cause it to shutdown. But you only do short clips. But maybe doing too may short clips in a period of time might also cause overheating?
> 
> ...



Honestly, as someone who posts here a lot, I have no problem calling a spade a spade - if the camera overheats, it overheats. Let's discuss it. However, as it stands, there's no evidence that this happens often in use, given that no one has had extensive time to shoot with the camera at all, and it won't even be available for several weeks.

Let's talk about overheating once there's something to talk about, you know?


----------



## CvH (Jul 11, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Avoiding the off-topic discussions!
> We get 5 year local Canon warranty but the 100-500mm is too expensive. 10% more than the current RF70-200mm and the RF TC is 50% more expensive than its EF counterpart. I will cancel my pre-order for it. Disappointed as since I can't use TCs with my RF70-200mm (as I did for EF 70-200mm), I don't now have a reasonably priced option for longer reach... except to go back to EF100-400mm mk 2. Not a bad option especially if there are some good second hand copies handed down from people moving to the RF tele lenses.
> 
> Is there a website/document that specifies which CFexpress cards are qualified? Australian resellers are bundling a 64gb USH-I SD card (useless!?!) card but no RF-EF adaptor or CFexpress.



I think preorder is not doing well in Australia. Some local retailers are offering AUD$6500.

I will wait for the price drops below AUD$6000 for the R5.

I was also planning to get the RF extender and replace my EF100-400 II with the RF100-500. I have decided to keep the 100-400 as the RF100-500 is ridiculously expensive. I also won't get the RF extender.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jul 11, 2020)

Gazwas said:


> I’m very lucky to make money from photography and video but from a hobbyists perspective the barriers to entry into photography are extremely high. The cost of cameras, lenses, memory cards, tripods, filters, bags and flashguns is getting higher and higher



Same here, I've been making some random money from photography but I can't even think of going photography full time. Otherwise I'd be barely covering the photo gear expenses, and what about the family? 

But we're talking about the high end photo gear here. I've never been into fishing, but spoken to a guy who spends thousands on the fancy high end fishing gear. If you include a boat, the expenses on the fishing hobby may go to infinity.


----------



## Cryhavoc (Jul 11, 2020)

Richard Anthony said:


> I am a bit disappointed nothing has been said about the new flash units that are supposed to be coming , I was hoping Canon would announce them today along with everything else .



Just go Godox or Flashpoint and you'd be all set


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Jul 11, 2020)

Chz said:


> I think preorder is not doing well in Australia. Some local retailers are offering AUD$6500.
> 
> I will wait for the price drops below AUD$6000 for the R5.
> 
> I was also planning to get the RF extender and replace my EF100-400 II with the RF100-500. I have decided to keep the 100-400 as the RF100-500 is ridiculously expensive. I also won't get the RF extender.


Opposite of what I am seeing here in Canada. I was shocked to find out I was 16th on the list at my local shop this morning. Pre-orders require at least 25% down and are not refundable so that is $1350 down at min. In Canada Canon is also running a price guarantee for the remainder of 2020 for all those that Pre-order before July 29th. So I do not expect to see any reduction in price in the great white north this year. Oh and we also get an R5 jacket for Pre-ordering.


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Jul 11, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Same here, I've been making some random money from photography but I can't even think of going photography full time. Otherwise I'd be barely covering the photo gear expenses, and what about the family?
> 
> But we're talking about the high end photo gear here. I've never been into fishing, but spoken to a guy who spends thousands on the fancy high end fishing gear. If you include a boat, the expenses on the fishing hobby may go to infinity.


The boat is the killer. Boat = Break Out Another Thousand.


----------



## Ozarker (Jul 11, 2020)

Troll Warlord said:


> Nothing new for EU prices?
> If it really is priced 4700€ it's cheaper to travel to Colorado and get one there (ofc I know warrancy etc. but would be fun).


In Oregon USA there would be no sales tax. Beautiful sights there too.


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## CvH (Jul 11, 2020)

Ramage said:


> In Canada Canon is also running a price guarantee for the remainder of 2020 for all those that Pre-order before July 29th. So I do not expect to see any reduction in price in the great white north this year. Oh and we also get an R5 jacket for Pre-ordering.



I don’t think they will need to have a price guarantee if the preorder is favourable. Why would they both to offer a free R5 jacket if they have high demand?


----------



## tpatana (Jul 11, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> But given that the limit of 20 minutes of 8K will completely fill the largest available 512 CFexpress card anyway, it kind of seems like a moot point.



I think currently the largest CFexpress is 1TB.


----------



## highdesertmesa (Jul 11, 2020)

tpatana said:


> I think currently the largest CFexpress is 1TB.



Yeah, I see a 2TB as well, but I don't trust anything but SanDisk. I don't see anything over 512 from them at B&H.


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Jul 11, 2020)

Chz said:


> I don’t think they will need to have a price guarantee if the preorder is favourable. Why would they both to offer a free R5 jacket if they have high demand?



My guess is Canon Canada is offering the price guarantee through 2020 for Pre-ordering and the free Jacket to drive Q2 sales which ends July 31st. Lots of pre-orders also helps with unit allocation.






Canon EOS R5 | Pre-Order Closed


The pre-order period has closed.




canon.ca


----------



## Chris.Chapterten (Jul 11, 2020)

FrenchFry said:


> What if I want the option of zooming in on my interviewee's nose hairs in post?
> 
> I am beginning to think that I will need a new computer as an add on accessory to my R5 to process the huge files!


The prospect of having to buy a new computer is what is holding me back from the R5!


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Jul 11, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> Yeah, I see a 2TB as well, but I don't trust anything but SanDisk. I don't see anything over 512 from them at B&H.


I was big SanDisk guy but had good success with the Lexar 2000x cards in my EOS R.

I added a Sony "Tough" card recently but that was just shipped back to Sony due to the recall so I am going to avoid those cards as an option for now.

I am looking at the ProGrade CFexpress cards as well as SanDisk.

Need to do a lot more research before I drop the cash on 2 cards.


----------



## tpatana (Jul 11, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> Yeah, I see a 2TB as well, but I don't trust anything but SanDisk. I don't see anything over 512 from them at B&H.



True, especially on the new formats it's better to stay with known brands. For CF I prefer Lexar over SanDisk.


----------



## CvH (Jul 11, 2020)

Ramage said:


> My guess is Canon Canada is offering the price guarantee through 2020 for Pre-ordering and the free Jacket to drive Q2 sales which ends July 31st. Lots of pre-orders also helps with unit allocation.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That is my point. If the preorders are really high and meet unit allocation then surely they don’t need to offer incentives to drive sales.


----------



## Chris.Chapterten (Jul 11, 2020)

Chz said:


> That is my point. If the preorders are really high and meet unit allocation then surely they don’t need to offer incentives to drive sales.


I would assume that the incentives were offered and agreed upon well before the post-launch pre-orders started coming in.


----------



## CvH (Jul 11, 2020)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> I would assume that the incentives were offered and agreed upon well before the post-launch pre-orders started coming in.



It could possibly be the case. However, I wonder why they are doing so? If both R5 & R6 are that good (I believe they are) and the RRP in Canada is in line with expectations then people would jump on the preorder like in USA without needing any incentives.


----------



## mppix (Jul 11, 2020)

Baron_Karza said:


> It's only predictable at 73F.


Wrong again. It's going to give you an indicator for your heat budget, be it a symbol or in min..


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 11, 2020)

Chz said:


> That is my point. If the preorders are really high and meet unit allocation then surely they don’t need to offer incentives to drive sales.


You guys in the USA & Canada, get all the great offers, free CF express cards, jackets, price guarantees, etc. Here in the UK we get to pay more @ £4199 for the R5 but can claim a free EF EOSR adapter, when the canon site works. Makes even less sense when my trade in includes the adapter but they will give me a new one with the new camera. Couldn't make this up.


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 11, 2020)

It's great to read the various comments and discussions about the R5 with two camps seeming to appear, the stills camp that doesn't want to pay for the 8k video specs and the video camp that complains about the upfront announced overheating when recording longer clips in 8k and 4k 120fps. Lets be honest, Canon were pretty honest about this with the guest reviews.

I must be unusual as I'm 70% Landscape, 20% action and 10% video, so for me, the R5 is a little more expensive than I wanted to pay but the increased features over the R makes it all worthwhile. I must admit, I'll probably never shoot in 8k for a long while until it is more common but 4k @ 24fps without crop sounds great to me for the odd time I need to shoot video and it will never be more than a few minutes.

I must admit from all the reviews provided by the pre production testers, Overheating only seems to be an issue after about 20 minutes, which probably is a decent length of time for most people not doing professional video that want fantastic stills capability as well. Surely if you're doing video longer than 20 minutes, a more film based solution would be better?? I know there is a concern that if multiple clips are done quickly one after the other this could cause overheating but again, if your into that kind of filming, maybe the R5 isn't the right solution.

I don't think any manufacturer will ever provide a true solution that satisfies all camps. But what do I know lol.

The bit that hurt is not just the starting price of £4199 but the add ons of two CF express cards, a spare battery and a reader. OUCH!!

Hopefully that's me set for a few years and no birthday or Christmas presents in the next couple of years. Exciting times.


----------



## Gazwas (Jul 11, 2020)

I was sure there would have been some sort of incentive here in the UK for early pre-ordering but no such look. 

Didn’t the EOS R get a free grip?

A discounted CFexpress card would have been a nice gesture but I suppose they think demand will be through the roof for the R5/R6 even during these choppy economic conditions so they’ve not bothered.


----------



## drama (Jul 11, 2020)

Gazwas said:


> I’m very lucky to make money from photography and video but from a hobbyists perspective the barriers to entry into photography are extremely high. The cost of cameras, lenses, memory cards, tripods, filters, bags and flashguns is getting higher and higher and the Canon R/RF system is living proof as £4K for a camera body in totally crazy. When I compare now to when I started photography as a hobby in the early 80’s and getting set up as a young boy was relatively affordable. An R6 is not the sort of thing most 10 year olds parents would dream of getting their son/daughter for Christmas.
> 
> Technology, miniaturisation and R&D costs a lots of money and today’s cameras are a far cry from my simple Olympus OM10 with its button cell battery and manual film wind but it’s no wonder the camera market is shrinking at such a rapid rate when you consider we get a great stills (and video) camera for *FREE* with our mobile phones.



I see the "bargaining" phase of the shock has set in.

Newsflash: this has never been an issue. Not with the 5D 2, which was a similar price, given inflation / cost of living changes, not with any luxury purchase, really. People buy _cars_ they don't need all the time, which are a magnitude higher. Complaining that costs are too high? If that's the best problem we have today, how lucky we all are...


----------



## yeahright (Jul 11, 2020)

Any idea why the R-series cameras only allow exposure compensation of +/- 3 stops (5D4 allows +/- 5 stops)?


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 11, 2020)

Gazwas said:


> I was sure there would have been some sort of incentive here in the UK for early pre-ordering but no such look.
> 
> Didn’t the EOS R get a free grip?
> 
> A discounted CFexpress card would have been a nice gesture but I suppose they think demand will be through the roof for the R5/R6 even during these choppy economic conditions so they’ve not bothered.


There were no offers for the R when I purchased mine in march last year and at the time, the grip was not readily available and where it was in stock, the price was ridiculous. 

Canon obviously either thinks the UK is cash rich or isn't bothered about making any interesting offers here. That's my cynical head lol.

I agree, I did wonder if they would do the same offer they did in the UK when the 1DX MKIII came out, a SanDisk CFexpress card and reader included but no such luck, just the free EF to EOSR adapter claim. Interestingly the R had one of these included so not much of an offer really,


----------



## SecureGSM (Jul 11, 2020)

Rideclick said:


> My question is: does the camera shutdown because of a temperature limit that's hit or a firmware setting or both? By both I mean if it hit's a temperature limit does the firmware make sure it doesn't record for 10 minutes meaning your stuck?


seriously.. can you think of the following solution for a second: when and if you hit the temperature limit with your R5, cannot you just detach the lens from R5 and keep it that way for a few minutes? with curtains closed, of course.. you do not need to wait for 10 minutes then.. a 2-3 minutes at longest. of even blow a portable handheld fan (A$8 = US$5) into the mount throat for a minute.. 






https://www.kmart.com.au/product/rechargeable-handheld-fan---assorted/2792802


----------



## Gazwas (Jul 11, 2020)

drama said:


> Newsflash: this has never been an issue.


I must have read all the camera sales figures all wrong for the last 5 - 7 years then?


----------



## blackcoffee17 (Jul 11, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> It's great to read the various comments and discussions about the R5 with two camps seeming to appear, the stills camp that doesn't want to pay for the 8k video specs and the video camp that complains about the upfront announced overheating when recording longer clips in 8k and 4k 120fps. Lets be honest, Canon were pretty honest about this with the guest reviews.
> 
> I must be unusual as I'm 70% Landscape, 20% action and 10% video, so for me, the R5 is a little more expensive than I wanted to pay but the increased features over the R makes it all worthwhile. I must admit, I'll probably never shoot in 8k for a long while until it is more common but 4k @ 24fps without crop sounds great to me for the odd time I need to shoot video and it will never be more than a few minutes.
> 
> ...



I don't care much about video limitations, the quality is great and i would probably never shoot over 10 minutes at once.
But the overheating also seems to be an issue with 4K 60p and even 30p and there is a 30 minute record limit.
So it might be an issue for those who want to film long interviews, weddings, etc, which can easily last over 30 minutes.

I think the overheating is well overblown by Sony fanboys who are just happy they could find something to criticise. 
My only problem with the R5/R6 is the price and lack of a 200-600 type lens which costs less than $2000


----------



## SecureGSM (Jul 11, 2020)

jd7 said:


> The R/RF gear seems fantastic in many ways, but from my point of view as a hobbyist, Canon is pricing itself out of the game. For example, R6 is about A$4400, RF 24-70 f/2.8L IS is about A$3650 and RF 70-200 f/2.8L IS is about A$4000, so that would be a A$12,050 setup. For comparison, Sony A7 III is about A$2950, Sigma 24-70 f.2.8 Art (for Sony) and Tamron 70-180 f/2.8 are about A$2150 each, so that would be a A$7250 setup. I would rather have the Canon gear (and yes, I realise the Canon lenses have IS which the lenses for the Sony don't, and that it is looking like Canon's IBIS is better than Sony's IBIS - and yes, I know you can adapt EF glass to the R system cameras), and in particular I would much rather have the ergonomics of the Canon R system bodies, but that price difference is too big for me to simply ignore. If I was keen to go mirrorless at this point, I think I would have to look hard at the Sony, as much as I wouldn't really want to. I am not in a rush to go mirrorless anyway, so it's a moot point for me at the moment, but still, Canon's pricing is certainly reducing my enthusiasm.
> 
> That's just me, of course. I'm sure Canon has done its market research and has good reason to believe the market will bear the prices its charging, so good luck to them. I suspect Canon will do well, as the gear does seem to be excellent.
> 
> PS - those prices are just from a quick online search. It may be possible to do better if you shop around. And I have ignored grey market import prices for now.


Nope, that’s not you. That’s the USD to AUD exchange rate that makes the price outlandish for many Aussies. I am not taking out a second mortgage to jump on the Canon R bandwagon. Hey, I managed just fine with a pair of 5D4 and a stable of EF lenses so far. I will keep shooting with my old cameras until I come across a mint R5 locally


----------



## Kit. (Jul 11, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> It's great to read the various comments and discussions about the R5 with two camps seeming to appear, the stills camp that doesn't want to pay for the 8k video specs and the video camp that complains about the upfront announced overheating when recording longer clips in 8k and 4k 120fps.


For you, I'm probably deeply in the "stills" camp, but I wouldn't mind using 8K raw for a 30fps burst of raw stills.

Obviously, I don't care if it overheats in 20 minutes of shooting video. I don't need such long bursts.


----------



## SecureGSM (Jul 11, 2020)

navastronia said:


> Honestly, as someone who posts here a lot, I have no problem calling a spade a spade - if the camera overheats, it overheats. Let's discuss it. However, as it stands, there's no evidence that this happens often in use, given that no one has had extensive time to shoot with the camera at all, and it won't even be available for several weeks.
> 
> Let's talk about overheating once there's something to talk about, you know?


Canon EOL mentioned number of times during the R5 presentation video: it does not overheat...

My take on it : Canon being Canon conservative and cautious. It likely won’t be as bad as it looks.
As I posted earlier: why not to detach the lens from the camera for a minute or two. The sensor is protected by curtains. In a dusty or windy environment a thin cloth over the mount throat would help. )


----------



## reefroamer (Jul 11, 2020)

Gazwas said:


> I’m very lucky to make money from photography and video but from a hobbyists perspective the barriers to entry into photography are extremely high. The cost of cameras, lenses, memory cards, tripods, filters, bags and flashguns is getting higher and higher and the Canon R/RF system is living proof as £4K for a camera body in totally crazy. When I compare now to when I started photography as a hobby in the early 80’s and getting set up as a young boy was relatively affordable. An R6 is not the sort of thing most 10 year olds parents would dream of getting their son/daughter for Christmas.
> 
> Technology, miniaturisation and R&D costs a lots of money and today’s cameras are a far cry from my simple Olympus OM10 with its button cell battery and manual film wind but it’s no wonder the camera market is shrinking at such a rapid rate when you consider we get a great stills (and video) camera for *FREE* with our mobile phones.


My first iPhone was about $400. My current iPhone was $1,250. So I wouldn't call new features, including better cameras and video, “FREE.”


----------



## Kit. (Jul 11, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> As I posted earlier: why not to detach the lens from the camera for a minute or two. The sensor is protected by curtains. In a dusty or windy environment a thin cloth over the mount throat would help. )


Reminds me of...









Canon Patent: Potential cooling for a 1 series camera


Canon News has discovered an interesting patent that identifies external accessory based cooling for a 1 series camera body. While this camera shown in the il



www.canonrumors.com


----------



## Gazwas (Jul 11, 2020)

reefroamer said:


> My first iPhone was about $400. My current iPhone was $1,250. So I wouldn't call new features, including better cameras and video, “FREE.”


I know I’ve massively over simplified it but _most_ don’t buy a new smart phone because of the camera but with each generation the camera gets much better or has added photography related functionality.

I’m just sympathising with those not earning money from photography or not currently financially able to justify the new elevated costs of the R system.


----------



## reefroamer (Jul 11, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> There were no offers for the R when I purchased mine in march last year and at the time, the grip was not readily available and where it was in stock, the price was ridiculous.
> 
> Canon obviously either thinks the UK is cash rich or isn't bothered about making any interesting offers here. That's my cynical head lol.
> 
> I agree, I did wonder if they would do the same offer they did in the UK when the 1DX MKIII came out, a SanDisk CFexpress card and reader included but no such luck, just the free EF to EOSR adapter claim. Interestingly the R had one of these included so not much of an offer really,


When the RP was launched, Canon for awhile threw in a free EF-RF adapter and the grip. I don’t think they do that anymore, but the RP body price has dropped. You really had to have the adapter at that time as the RF lens portfolio was tiny.


----------



## BeenThere (Jul 11, 2020)

yeahright said:


> Any idea why the R-series cameras only allow exposure compensation of +/- 3 stops (5D4 allows +/- 5 stops)?


Smarter light metering?


----------



## reefroamer (Jul 11, 2020)

Gazwas said:


> I know I’ve massively over simplified it but _most_ don’t buy a new smart phone because of the camera but with each generation the camera gets much better or has added photography related functionality.
> 
> I’m just sympathising with those not earning money from photography or not currently financially able to justify the new elevated costs of the R system.


Yes, the top of the R line is beyond the sensible reach of many hobbyists. But you can pick up an RP model for very affordable prices these days. Even the R is well below $2,000 now and is a really advanced camera, though obviously less than the newest — and most expensive — new models. Canon actually offers some very reasonably priced entries to the full-frame mirrorless world. And there are now many more affordable RF lens options, too.


----------



## BeenThere (Jul 11, 2020)

reefroamer said:


> When the RP was launched, Canon for awhile threw in a free EF-RF adapter and the grip. I don’t think they do that anymore, but the RP body price has dropped. You really had to have the adapter at that time as the RF lens portfolio was tiny.


Canon should have set the initial price of the R5 at U.S. $3999 and thrown in a free EF-RF adapter. Then, everyone would be happy!


----------



## Mark3794 (Jul 11, 2020)

Since everyone on the internet is screaming "overheating" (at least they found a different word this time, "crippled" wasn't fun anymore) i'll post the latest temp limits by Canon.

8K Raw 20 minutes, 4k120p 15 minutes, 4k60p 35 minutes, 4k30 (8.2k oversampling 30 minutes), 4k 30p not limited by heat.

All in a fully weathersealed body. Let's see if someone else can do better.


----------



## Chris.Chapterten (Jul 11, 2020)

Mark3794 said:


> Since everyone on the internet is screaming "overheating" (at least they found a different word this time, "crippled" wasn't fun anymore) i'll post the latest temp limits by Canon.
> 
> 8K Raw 20 minutes, 4k120p 15 minutes, 4k60p 35 minutes, 4k30 (8.2k oversampling 30 minutes), 4k 30p not limited by heat.
> 
> All in a fully weathersealed body. Let's see if someone else can do better.


Have to say I agree. Given the limitations of the body size and it being weather sealed, they have actually done pretty well really


----------



## koenkooi (Jul 11, 2020)

Mark3794 said:


> Since everyone on the internet is screaming "overheating" (at least they found a different word this time, "crippled" wasn't fun anymore) i'll post the latest temp limits by Canon.
> 
> 8K Raw 20 minutes, 4k120p 15 minutes, 4k60p 35 minutes, 4k30 (8.2k oversampling 30 minutes), 4k 30p not limited by heat.
> 
> All in a fully weathersealed body. Let's see if someone else can do better.



I'd add a time qualifier, like "do better in 2020", having it open ended is just making it easier for people to go trolling in 6 years when the others have caught up


----------



## sanj (Jul 11, 2020)

BeenThere said:


> Smarter light metering?


+5 would be better.


----------



## sanj (Jul 11, 2020)

I am so glad I learnt my job during film days. We guys know when to roll and when not to. We will be ok.


----------



## seasonascent (Jul 11, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> So do you use 24p or a higher rate?


I'm in Australia and shoot at 25p, unless I want to slow the footage down in which case I'll shoot at 50p.


----------



## Billybob (Jul 11, 2020)

blackcoffee17 said:


> I don't care much about video limitations, the quality is great and i would probably never shoot over 10 minutes at once.
> But the overheating also seems to be an issue with 4K 60p and even 30p and there is a 30 minute record limit.
> So it might be an issue for those who want to film long interviews, weddings, etc, which can easily last over 30 minutes.
> 
> ...


I don't get all the bashing of Sony fanboys. This is a particularly egregious example when it's quite clear that many long-time Canon users are complaining about the overheating problem. The bashing goes both ways. Sony fanboys criticize Canon users to the same extent--then both sides get into petty arguments about which fanboys are worst. I can't put myself in either camp. I've used Canon DSLRs since 2003 but made a move to Nikon when Canon's innovation slowed. I kept my Canon EF lenses--just too good to get rid of--in hope that Canon would eventually get its act together. I then picked up a Sony a7rIII to continue using that wonderful Canon glass--not surprising, but the Sony's 42MPs gave me the best damn images I ever produced with those lenses. I now have an r5 on order because it looks like Canon has gotten its act together. Lol, Canon has so gotten its act together that it has almost certainly surpassed if not obsoleted the lenses I've retained all these years.

Hence, in addition to the r5, I have the 100-500 on order (I will sell my 100-400) and will likely order the 15-35 after seeing actual r5 reviews. I'll continue using my EF 24-70 mainly because the 15-35 should become my primary lens.

The short of it is, the back and forth between Canon and Sony fans is extremely tiresome. Sony made some great products, and was the source of tremendous innovation for most of the past decade. They pushed the envelope tremendously. Now it looks like Canon is prepared to retake that role. But the r5--just like the Sony cameras-- is not flawless (will there ever be a camera that is?). I suspect that I might lose a touch in DR with the r5 (but not enough to be concerned with), and I'm concerned about whether rolling shutter will be problematic. With my Sony, the files are way too large, there's no fully articulated LCD, and the IBIS could be a lot better. For me, ergonomics and menus have never been a problem. Again, no camera is perfect.

But my self-esteem is not dependent on being able to brag about my system being better than yours.


----------



## brad-man (Jul 11, 2020)

Billybob said:


> I don't get all the bashing of Sony fanboys. This is a particularly egregious example when it's quite clear that many long-time Canon users are complaining about the overheating problem. The bashing goes both ways. Sony fanboys criticize Canon users to the same extent--then both sides get into petty arguments about which fanboys are worst. I can't put myself in either camp. I've used Canon DSLRs since 2003 but made a move to Nikon when Canon's innovation slowed. I kept my Canon EF lenses--just too good to get rid of--in hope that Canon would eventually get its act together. I then picked up a Sony a7rIII to continue using that wonderful Canon glass--not surprising, but the Sony's 42MPs gave me the best damn images I ever produced with those lenses. I now have an r5 on order because it looks like Canon has gotten its act together. Lol, Canon has so gotten its act together that it has almost certainly surpassed if not obsoleted the lenses I've retained all these years.
> 
> Hence, in addition to the r5, I have the 100-500 on order (I will sell my 100-400) and will likely order the 15-35 after seeing actual r5 reviews. I'll continue using my EF 24-70 mainly because the 15-35 should become my primary lens.
> 
> ...


I look forward to you and others like you to flood the market with 100-400 mkll lenses so you can pick up the 100-500. I still have a great copy of the 100-400 mkl, but the grass is always greener...


----------



## Billybob (Jul 11, 2020)

brad-man said:


> I look forward to you and others like you to flood the market with 100-400 mkll lenses so you can pick up the 100-500. I still have a great copy of the 100-400 mkl, but the grass is always greener...


Doing my best since 2009 to keep the photography industry afloat. 

The 100-400 mk II is an amazing piece of glass. Incredible IQ in an extremely compact package. My only complaint was the limited reach, which is why I'm considering the 100-500. It could be part of a three-lens travel kit (with the 15-35, and a 50, 60 or 85 prime) with unprecedented wide-to-long telephoto coverage in a compact package.

At least, that's the way I'm rationalizing it.


----------



## Besisika (Jul 11, 2020)

Rideclick said:


> My question is: does the camera shutdown because of a temperature limit that's hit or a firmware setting or both? By both I mean if it hit's a temperature limit does the firmware make sure it doesn't record for 10 minutes meaning your stuck?


Nobody answers your question so let me try my best (some got too much emotionally involved).
The way I see it is that Canon tries to deliver to us a camera that today's technology cannot do yet. 
I like their approach and I am very pleased that they did so. 
The R6 was designed the old way: "this is what we think you should have, so have it whether you like it or not". The R5 went the opposite direction: "We give you a bunch of options and you choose what you want". People's problem is that they didn't take the time to sit down and choose the right option for them. They simply want to use the latest and greatest option and demand that it works their way, but our technology is not there yet.

To make things clear right from the beginning; the R5 does NOT overheat at 10.2.2, Clog, 29.97fps, 4K, full frame, ALL-I; as per Canon (watch the video again: 



). This is the standard of today's camera. I shoot band concert, choir concert, community and church events and 90% of my clips were shot at 4K 29.97fps. I do use 60fps but only for the sake of B-rolls and these are 10-30sec clip max.
My opinion, if someone has to complain, complain about the overheating of 60fps 4K. That would make sense to me.
For a comparison, my current camera, 1DX II, does not overheat at 60fps, but it has a crop of 1.4. The R5 does overheat but it is a full frame. It totally make sense to me that someone wants to take long shots during a wedding at 60fps for the sake of slow motion. But if the wedding really is that important to you, have a backup in the form of Ninja V and cover the entire wedding with it, while recording internally only during crucial moment. 
I hope that soon enough, Canon will allow a dual recording of standard 4K 29.97fps, both cards can do it, then why not?

Other than that, all the complains I have heard don't make any sense what so ever in my mind. 
You do shoot long takes during interviews but it makes a lot more sense to shoot an important interview with two cameras with both on Ninja V. I tried to shoot with only one 1DXII and a Ninja Assassin, but once in 6 years, the camera shut down in the middle. I restarted but didn't help. I removed the battery and then continued to work again, but I lost 30sec of interview. I won't do that again.
Shooting an interview for the sake of cropping doesn't have any practical sense at all to me, unless you are interviewing for the sake of practice. Please have two cameras so that in case one fails, you still have the other one. Do always dual recording, short take internally, long take on Ninja V. Whatever overheating problems your camera has, the Ninja V resolves it.

In my mind, the 4K 120fps is not for interview nor wedding long take, because it doesn't have a sound.
Long take on 8K costs too much, in terms of CFExpress, hard drive, computer power, and most of all exporting time in Premiere Pro. It doesn't have any possibility of primary/backup with Ninja V and no possibility of dual recording, unless you record 4K on the SD but that defeats your purpose.
If you need to complain, complain about the 4K HQ, but you get 29.95min on that, and you cannot get the same quality on Ninja V anyway (your backup will be on lesser quality).
To me, the 8K, 4K 120fps, 4K HQ, 1.6 crop 4K are all for B-rolls and these are all less than 1min long (with the majority at 10-20sec long).

For the first time in 6 years I am not complaining about Canon, because they gave me exactly what I wanted: "the ability for me to choose" regardless of the technology restrictions. Give it to me and let me decide how to use it.
Trolls always complain about anything and everything, don't be one of those. 

By the way, the R6 4K overheats, the R5 doesn't. The R6 oversamples (hence the overheating), the R5 doesn't, unless you choose the option to.


----------



## Ozarker (Jul 11, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> You guys in the USA & Canada, get all the great offers, free CF express cards, jackets, price guarantees, etc. Here in the UK we get to pay more @ £4199 for the R5 but can claim a free EF EOSR adapter, when the canon site works. Makes even less sense when my trade in includes the adapter but they will give me a new one with the new camera. Couldn't make this up.


True, but you live in the wonderful UK and just a short trip across the channel to the continent. I'd take that accessibility over a card or jacket.


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## Ozarker (Jul 11, 2020)

sanj said:


> I am so glad I learnt my job during film days. We guys know when to roll and when not to. We will be ok.


Anytime I do video it is no more than 2-3 minute clips (maximum) at a time. Then clips are assembled into the "movie" I want anyway. If I could afford a camera like the R5 I wouldn't complain at all.  It sometimes takes me a couple of days to get 20 mins. of edited footage.


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## Starting out EOS R (Jul 11, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> True, but you live in the wonderful UK and just a short trip across the channel to the continent. I'd take that accessibility over a card or jacket.


HaHa, like all places, the UK has it's good points, not least of which is the rich history, beautiful scenery, location and access to Europe but also the not so good bits, weather that can be all four seasons in a couple of hours and then change again the next day plus a media that loves to build people up and take great pleasure in dragging them down and a culture that ties itself in knots focusing on the bad bits.

If we were an individual and in the States, we'd be in therapy lol.


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## TheSalvatore (Jul 11, 2020)

In Singapore, it costs SGD6199 (USD 4456.19) for one R5. But I know I made the right choice of preordering 2 sets. Both comes with free control ring adapters.


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## zim (Jul 11, 2020)

Billybob said:


> I don't get all the bashing of Sony fanboys. This is a particularly egregious example when it's quite clear that many long-time Canon users are complaining about the overheating problem. The bashing goes both ways. Sony fanboys criticize Canon users to the same extent--then both sides get into petty arguments about which fanboys are worst. I can't put myself in either camp. I've used Canon DSLRs since 2003 but made a move to Nikon when Canon's innovation slowed. I kept my Canon EF lenses--just too good to get rid of--in hope that Canon would eventually get its act together. I then picked up a Sony a7rIII to continue using that wonderful Canon glass--not surprising, but the Sony's 42MPs gave me the best damn images I ever produced with those lenses. I now have an r5 on order because it looks like Canon has gotten its act together. Lol, Canon has so gotten its act together that it has almost certainly surpassed if not obsoleted the lenses I've retained all these years.
> 
> Hence, in addition to the r5, I have the 100-500 on order (I will sell my 100-400) and will likely order the 15-35 after seeing actual r5 reviews. I'll continue using my EF 24-70 mainly because the 15-35 should become my primary lens.
> 
> ...


In fairness they started it....


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## degos (Jul 11, 2020)

Besisika said:


> For the first time in 6 years I am not complaining about Canon, because they gave me exactly what I wanted: "the ability for me to choose" regardless of the technology restrictions. Give it to me and let me decide how to use it.



But as you said , it's not really a choice. Feature-packed super-expenaive model or deliberately downgraded mid-tier model

Why no R6+ with the 5D4 sensor? Or why not charge $1000 less for the R5 and have the video modes as an add-on software option? Those things would be choices, not Canon's usual market segmentation approach. Buy what you're given, plebs!


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## davidhfe (Jul 11, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> It's great to read the various comments and discussions about the R5 with two camps seeming to appear, the stills camp that doesn't want to pay for the 8k video specs and the video camp that complains about the upfront announced overheating when recording longer clips in 8k and 4k 120fps



I was just thinking the same thing. Over on EOS HD folks are like “It should have a fan!” and “should have been over sampled 6k!” And here people are kvetching that the overheating is “Proof canon spent too much time engineering features for video!”

I really wish canon was able to release a 5Dc with active cooling, dual CFe, full size HDMI and additional codecs (eg license ProRes) for an extra $500 or something. Then we could all sit back, relax, and do what really matters... speculate about if it can lift an 8 stop underexposed capture.


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## davidhfe (Jul 11, 2020)

degos said:


> But as you said , it's not really a choice. Feature-packed super-expenaive model or deliberately downgraded mid-tier model
> 
> Why no R6+ with the 5D4 sensor? Or why not charge $1000 less for the R5 and have the video modes as an add-on software option? Those things would be choices, not Canon's usual market segmentation approach. Buy what you're given, plebs!



Once again with feeling: The video features are not driving the cost of the R5. The video features are a way to broaden the reach of a very expensive stills camera. The 5D4 sensor cannot read fast enough to support the AF of these cameras. There isn’t the R&D budget in a shrinking market to develop 5 new sensors all at once.

(I will grant that Canon could have been a little more aggressive with the R6, perhaps offering 4K raw)


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## Ozarker (Jul 11, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> HaHa, like all places, the UK has it's good points, not least of which is the rich history, beautiful scenery, location and access to Europe but also the not so good bits, weather that can be all four seasons in a couple of hours and then change again the next day plus a media that loves to build people up and take great pleasure in dragging them down and a culture that ties itself in knots focusing on the bad bits.
> 
> If we were an individual and in the States, we'd be in therapy lol.


My daughter was in London for a Microsoft gathering last year. She took the Chunnel (sp?) to Paris for a few days and was overwhelmed by the size of the Louvre. She had a wonderful time for 2 weeks in the UK and France. Microsoft paid all of it for her. She said, "Daddy, if you ever go to London, don't drive!" haha Me? I like to watch and listen to people, so a local pub in a small village that serves famous English fish and chips every meal would suit me fine. I'd promise to keep my mouth shut and be friendly (No flag waving. Bad form)... just keep the deep fried cod coming.  Of course, I'd be very tempted to find a place that serves some fine Scottish Haggis too.

Our shared "...culture that ties itself in knots focusing on the bad bits." I've quit watching the news altogether. Hoping I have 20+ years left to live and don't want to waste a minute listening bad news.


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## Gazwas (Jul 11, 2020)

Well I can happily say I’ve never looked forward to or been excited quite so much by the release of the R5 since the Canon T90.

I say bring on the good, the bad and (hopefully not) the ugly. I’m fully ready to accept all the R5’s defects, failings, faults, glitches and foibles as I know ultimately it will be a legendary camera.


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## Nelu (Jul 11, 2020)

StevenA said:


> ^This was my original point, though I was more long-winded in making it. Bottom line from my point of view is that while the heating issue *may* be a problem for some from time to time, I can't see it as an issue for the majority of people. And if some people are experiencing it on a consistent basis then maybe they made the wrong purchase and should have bought a cinema camera instead.


We’ll, you could probably strap your IKEA mattress on top of a Ferrari once every few years but if you have to do it every day you’d better buy yourself a truck


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## drama (Jul 11, 2020)

Gazwas said:


> I must have read all the camera sales figures all wrong for the last 5 - 7 years then?



If that false equivalence is where you came out then yes, yes you have.

Phones have eaten compact camera sales. That wasn't the initial point. The initial point was that getting into digital photography at the high end was prohibitively expensive, especially when factoring in lenses and memory cards. So an entirely different proposition, and per my point, one that hasn't really changed in the last 20 years. If you'd like to try abstracting a different sentence to try and save face, have at it...


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## Starting out EOS R (Jul 11, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> My daughter was in London for a Microsoft gathering last year. She took the Chunnel (sp?) to Paris for a few days and was overwhelmed by the size of the Louvre. She had a wonderful time for 2 weeks in the UK and France. Microsoft paid all of it for her. She said, "Daddy, if you ever go to London, don't drive!" haha Me? I like to watch and listen to people, so a local pub in a small village that serves famous English fish and chips every meal would suit me fine. I'd promise to keep my mouth shut and be friendly (No flag waving. Bad form)... just keep the deep fried cod coming.  Of course, I'd be very tempted to find a place that serves some fine Scottish Haggis too.
> 
> Our shared "...culture that ties itself in knots focusing on the bad bits." I've quit watching the news altogether. Hoping I have 20+ years left to live and don't want to waste a minute listening bad news.


Fish and chips, oh yes but has to be from a chip shop next to the sea. There is nothing like it. I would never drive in London. Always use the train lol.
I'm not surprised your daughter enjoyed it as someone else was paying for it.  That's the best way to enjoy London and Paris, they are very expensive places to visit.


----------



## Wski (Jul 11, 2020)

seasonascent said:


> Hey mate, not sure if anyone has answered this for you (couldn't be bothered scrolling through haha). Basically All-I and IPB are two different ways of compressing the frames in the video file. Putting it very simply, All-i will be a higher quality file with more data and less compression. I always shoot All-i for anything that needs to be quality, unless I'm filming something long-form where I'm mindful of memory capacity such as wedding speeches, then I'll briefly swap over to IPB.



Thank you for taking the time to respond. I appreciate it. Like I said, I’m coming from a T3i that I picked up in 2013, so I’m sure anything at this point will be an upgrade. I’m not capturing fast motion since I have my camera on a tripod in the woodshop, so I don’t think it’ll make a tremendous difference for my application. I’m just excited for a new camera.


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## Starting out EOS R (Jul 11, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> I was just thinking the same thing. Over on EOS HD folks are like “It should have a fan!” and “should have been over sampled 6k!” And here people are kvetching that the overheating is “Proof canon spent too much time engineering features for video!”
> 
> I really wish canon was able to release a 5Dc with active cooling, dual CFe, full size HDMI and additional codecs (eg license ProRes) for an extra $500 or something. Then we could all sit back, relax, and do what really matters... speculate about if it can lift an 8 stop underexposed capture.


Haha, good luck with that one. I'm afraid there will always be some sort of compromise. For me as an enthusiast and non pro, it's probably over the top but does everything I want and to some extent, is future proof for a few years.

I do feel for the vloggers, you tubers and the film camp as the headline specs looked fantastic and would almost give them an amazing pro filming solution in a mirrorless body at a price much cheaper than a cinema camera. But, as Mr Mckinnon said, he can live with it so if someone wants to record in 8k Raw for more than 20 mins, I'm afraid they will be disappointed but realistically cant be that surprised based on the price of existing 8k cameras out there.


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## Shivu (Jul 11, 2020)

Just amazing AF 
Checkout 4k and 8K samples too from the same guy.


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## LensFungus (Jul 11, 2020)

Shivu said:


> Just amazing AF


Why a turtle and a sloth? Did the snail have his day off?


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## Nelu (Jul 11, 2020)

Shivu said:


> Just amazing AF
> Checkout 4k and 8K samples too from the same guy.


The eye detection is a total failure with spiders!


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## tpatana (Jul 11, 2020)

Kit. said:


> For you, I'm probably deeply in the "stills" camp, but I wouldn't mind using 8K raw for a 30fps burst of raw stills.



I was wondering about this last night. I often shoot sports, and match is typically 2-4 minutes long. So especially for important matches (final etc) could I just record the whole match and the frame capture 35Mpix taken at 30fps.

I was wondering how is the quality, meaning if the compression or anything making it look worse, or would it be identical to same shot taken with still 35Mpix camera.

Another problem though, shooting at 30p means you should use 1/60 ss. Stills I'm using 1/500 (90% of the time), so we're looking almost 10-fold more motion blur. I could use same 1/500 ss for video, but then it would look bad as video.

I guess if I end up buying the camera, I can test and experiment.


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## Kit. (Jul 11, 2020)

tpatana said:


> I was wondering how is the quality, meaning if the compression or anything making it look worse, or would it be identical to same shot taken with still 35Mpix camera.


Raw shall be raw, just cropped for video aspect rate.

All-I and especially IPB could be a different story.



tpatana said:


> Another problem though, shooting at 30p means you should use 1/60 ss. Stills I'm using 1/500 (90% of the time), so we're looking almost 10-fold more motion blur. I could use same 1/500 ss for video, but then it would look bad as video.


Well, if, as an end result, you want both stills and video, you better use two cameras, of course.

If EOS R5 controls in video modes are about the same as for EOS R, shutter speeds from 1/4000 to 1/8 should be available in M and Tv video modes.


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## zim (Jul 11, 2020)

tpatana said:


> I was wondering about this last night. I often shoot sports, and match is typically 2-4 minutes long. So especially for important matches (final etc) could I just record the whole match and the frame capture 35Mpix taken at 30fps.
> 
> I was wondering how is the quality, meaning if the compression or anything making it look worse, or would it be identical to same shot taken with still 35Mpix camera.
> 
> ...


That's an interesting question. I was thinking the same for even less key point time spans at air shows. Then again the devil on my other shoulder is saying what's happening to the skill at getting 'that' photo. If the tech is really good is it going to rip the heart and fun out of my hobby?


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## tpatana (Jul 11, 2020)

Kit. said:


> Raw shall be raw, just cropped for video aspect rate.



I don't think compressed raw is same as still raw. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.



> Well, if, as an end result, you want both stills and video, you better use two cameras, of course.



Already carry 2 for stills, usually assistant shoots second body for important matches. But interesting idea to use R5 to capture final matches in 30fps 35Mpix.


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## tpatana (Jul 11, 2020)

zim said:


> That's an interesting question. I was thinking the same for even less key point time spans at air shows. Then again the devil on my other shoulder is saying what's happening to the skill at getting 'that' photo. If the tech is really good is it going to rip the heart and fun out of my hobby?



Yea, I was talking this with a friend already couple years ago. Especially for me shooting stills at 12fps I can't guarantee I can catch the moment for the strikes, even more at higher level where they execute those in 0.1-0.3 second so my reaction time is often too slow. Shooting continuous 30fps is kinda interesting aspect, and for sure I'll at least try it to see if it works.


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## deleteme (Jul 11, 2020)

I did not pre-order.
As a working pro I could justify the cost but I am realizing that they will not change the quality of my work or the ease with which I can get a good image. 
Also, my clients will never see the difference in IQ and I wonder if I will.

If I do make the upgrade, it will be because I see a demonstrable uptick in my volume (at present 20% of "normal") and that they offer a distinctive difference in operational pleasure.
I will try them out when they arrive at my local shop and I may go ahead and buy one. But it will only be if they surprise me with something that, as yet, has not been made apparent.


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## deleteme (Jul 11, 2020)

tpatana said:


> Another problem though, shooting at 30p means you should use 1/60 ss. Stills I'm using 1/500 (90% of the time), so we're looking almost 10-fold more motion blur. I could use same 1/500 ss for video, but then it would look bad as video.
> 
> I guess if I end up buying the camera, I can test and experiment.


You can choose a higher speed. I have often heard the advice of using 1/frame rate as looking most "filmic". I have used a variety of speeds to see the difference and found that the high speeds were not an issue in terms of IQ. The issue you may have is rolling shutter artifacts as the scan rate is often about 1/60 or so. The Sony A9 has a much faster scan rate so this is less of an issue.

I would test this idea with the camera you already own to see ht effect. IMO it will be fine especially since your goal would be stills.

Of course you can always pick an Olympus m43 kit and get 60fps.


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## tpatana (Jul 11, 2020)

Normalnorm said:


> I would test this idea with the camera you already own to see ht effect. IMO it will be fine especially since your goal would be stills.
> 
> Of course you can always pick an Olympus m43 kit and get 60fps.



If I start taking video, I probably want also use the video too, hence it should look good both video and still. Currently I usually live-stream (with iphone) but depending signal sometimes it looks really crappy. I also have live-stream setup (Cerevo) for my video camera but using it at location is too much hassle that I tried it only 2-3 times and decided iphone is close enough quality with 10% of the work.

I have been eyeing other brands too, around m43 and one inch to use as video camera. The Sony A6xxx series was good contender, especially if I slap some 30/35mm F1.4 lens on them. But I'd like very high frame rate so I can do good slow-motion on post, and there's very few cameras (in my price range) who do more than 120fps. I'd love something with even 720p at 240fps, so I could use 1/480 for shutter. (and I think the "180" rule is 1/(2*frame rate) for the normal look/feel).

One thing I hated learning after I bought 5D4 was that the 720p120 mode didn't do AF. They were really quiet about that. They glamoured about the dual-pixel AF on 4k and 1080p, and also mentioned that 720p you can shoot 120fps. They "forgot" to mention the AF doesn't work on 120fps. The Lumix -series seems to be my best bet, but they are bit pricey for just one trick (for me).


----------



## Gazwas (Jul 11, 2020)

drama said:


> If you'd like to try abstrating a different sentence to try and save face, have at it...


I’d actually prefer an adult conversation with you that has nothing to do with saving anyone’s reputation or dignity.

Unless I’m wrong, sales of higher end cameras are not as strong today as they were 20 years ago and I am suggesting that while that could be attributed to many things, smart phones and £4000 cameras along with £3000 lenses doesn’t help.


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## Joel C (Jul 12, 2020)

You're telling me we have to wait all the way to HALLOWEEN for the 85mm f/2???!?!? 

Can anyone tell me why you would announce this right now? This makes zero sense to me when it could easily be announced in the fall. 

Now I begin the 112 day wait until the thing can actually ship...


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Jul 12, 2020)

Completed my pre-order of the R5 yesterday and have been amusing myself with all the youtube videos with flames in the thumbnails. 

I suspect I am not alone in not having the slightest bit of worry about the thermal protection system in the R5 cause I do not shoot 25 mins of slow motion @4k and while 8k Raw will be a tool that is awesome to have in the toolbox I am sure editing it will be less desirable after the novelty wears off. Still nice to have if 8k stock footage becomes a thing. 

Stuff that really excites me:

Faster shutter speed of the R5 over the R and the RP. I did last years airshow circuit using the R and the RP and while I was happy with the results my hit rate was WAY low. Looking forward to seeing how much easier it is to track the fast movers with the R5.

4k 120, this is going to be stock footage gold mine as few systems can produce smooth 4k slow motion. A lot of my best selling stuff in slow motion HD

45MP, I love taking my epic landscape shots from Banff, Vancouver Island, and places in between and having large aluminum or acrylic prints done. The R's 30mp was good 90% of the time but more is better

Stuff that I am less excited about:

Cost of in Camera storage, I have an army of UHS-II cards so that is good but DAMN those CFexpress cards are pricey. Plus I need a new card reader.

Micro HDMI, I use an Atomos Ninja V with my R so I have couple of Mini HDMI to HDMI cables that once I sell the R will not have a lot of use. This is a minor issue but kinda reminds me of when phone chargers change from 1 model to the next leaving us with that drawer full of cables.

Curious what things people are looking forward to and what people are less excited about.


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## Ozarker (Jul 12, 2020)

Joel C said:


> You're telling me we have to wait all the way to HALLOWEEN for the 85mm f/2???!?!?
> 
> Can anyone tell me why you would announce this right now? This makes zero sense to me when it could easily be announced in the fall.
> 
> Now I begin the 112 day wait until the thing can actually ship...


Just buy a Samyang/Rokinon RF 85mm f/1.4 AF and be happy.

Seriously, I can't understand why you are complaining. New system. Things don't happen all at once. If they didn't announce you'd be complaining that there was no news of one coming, right?


----------



## Ozarker (Jul 12, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> Fish and chips, oh yes but has to be from a chip shop next to the sea. There is nothing like it. I would never drive in London. Always use the train lol.
> I'm not surprised your daughter enjoyed it as someone else was paying for it.  That's the best way to enjoy London and Paris, they are very expensive places to visit.


Very true. She's lucky to have Microsoft as her sugar daddy.    Smart girl. No university, but managed to become an engineer for Microsoft. I am so very proud. Next year, should the virus abate, she gets a trip to Monaco... all expenses paid again. Better all around than her dad.


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## steven_diexplora (Jul 12, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Depends how you look at it really. Personally I think there are amazing bargains for people interested in actually taking compelling high quality images rather than people that buy in to the gotta’ have the newest, bestest, influencer driven toy. You can get a brand new 5DSr for under $1,400, kuhhji, used lenses offer similar bargains.



well said. my 10 yr old t2i died back in march and ive been holding out since then. do i go with 5d mk 4, eos r or r6


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## deleteme (Jul 12, 2020)

tpatana said:


> If I start taking video, I probably want also use the video too, hence it should look good both video and still. Currently I usually live-stream (with iphone) but depending signal sometimes it looks really crappy. I also have live-stream setup (Cerevo) for my video camera but using it at location is too much hassle that I tried it only 2-3 times and decided iphone is close enough quality with 10% of the work.
> 
> I have been eyeing other brands too, around m43 and one inch to use as video camera. The Sony A6xxx series was good contender, especially if I slap some 30/35mm F1.4 lens on them. But I'd like very high frame rate so I can do good slow-motion on post, and there's very few cameras (in my price range) who do more than 120fps. I'd love something with even 720p at 240fps, so I could use 1/480 for shutter. (and I think the "180" rule is 1/(2*frame rate) for the normal look/feel).
> 
> One thing I hated learning after I bought 5D4 was that the 720p120 mode didn't do AF. They were really quiet about that. They glamoured about the dual-pixel AF on 4k and 1080p, and also mentioned that 720p you can shoot 120fps. They "forgot" to mention the AF doesn't work on 120fps. The Lumix -series seems to be my best bet, but they are bit pricey for just one trick (for me).


I just did. latest with my R at 4K . I shot at 1/60 of a fan and the blades were blurry. I also shot at 1/1250 sec and the video still looked great but the fan blades were now very sharp. Of course they were showing pre-cession in that they looked like they were going slowly. Also there was significant rolling shutter. But high shutter speed in video can still look great.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jul 12, 2020)

Kit. said:


> Raw shall be raw, just cropped for video aspect rate.



Stills raw will be 14 bits, video raw - 10 bits and lossy.
I don't know if it's important for the case in question.


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## Chris.Chapterten (Jul 12, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Stills raw will be 14 bits, video raw - 10 bits and lossy.
> I don't know if it's important for the case in question.


I thought the RAW video was 12 bit?


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## Quarkcharmed (Jul 12, 2020)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> I thought the RAW video was 12 bit?



I might have forgotten the numbers, ok it's 12 bit raw, still not the same quality as stills raw. But might be enough for the purpose.


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## usern4cr (Jul 12, 2020)

Shivu said:


> Just amazing AF
> Checkout 4k and 8K samples too from the same guy.


That video is **incredible**  I can see the f7.1 in use which means it's going to be the RF 100-500 f4.5-7.1, and this is the first lens I've ordered with the R5 (woo-hoo!). I'm normally a "stills" guy, but this animal eye detect has made me a believer that I will *have* to cross over to the "dark side" and start taking some videos! And if that's not enough, I believe that you can get raw stills (at 8K by 4320) at various per frame exposure speeds from the video, although I'm hearing that video is 12 bit compressed raw instead of 14 bit raw, correct?

You know, I think that getting acceptable 8K by 4320 raw stills from video is the *"extra stills feature"* that was hyped to us. After all, I haven't heard of any other "stills" surprise.


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## tpatana (Jul 12, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Stills raw will be 14 bits, video raw - 10 bits and lossy.
> I don't know if it's important for the case in question.



Yes, that's why I was wondering how close the 8k frame looks to 35Mpix still.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 12, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> After all, I haven't heard of any other "stills" surprise.



I kinda thought that autofocus at f/22 was a surprise feature. I expected f/11 like my R.


----------



## Electechjr (Jul 12, 2020)

Local camera shop, Roberts Camera in Indianapolis, had a Canon day today. Got to try out the R5 with the RF70-200. Pre ordered already but nice to confirm that the camera is what I expected. Tried the battery grip too, I like the camera better without it. They also thought they would be able to fill all pre orders with the first shipment of cameras. Hoping they are right.


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 12, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> That video is **incredible**  I can see the f7.1 in use which means it's going to be the RF 100-500 f4.5-7.1, and this is the first lens I've ordered with the R5 (woo-hoo!). I'm normally a "stills" guy, but this animal eye detect has made me a believer that I will *have* to cross over to the "dark side" and start taking some videos! And if that's not enough, I believe that you can get raw stills (at 8K by 4320) at various per frame exposure speeds from the video, although I'm hearing that video is 12 bit compressed raw instead of 14 bit raw, correct?
> 
> You know, I think that getting acceptable 8K by 4320 raw stills from video is the *"extra stills feature"* that was hyped to us. After all, I haven't heard of any other "stills" surprise.


I was, and still am wondering if the 8K video does a good enough job to capture a bird in flight and extract a high quality frame. I'm sure we will see results.


----------



## esglord (Jul 12, 2020)

Electechjr said:


> Local camera shop, Roberts Camera in Indianapolis, had a Canon day today. Got to try out the R5 with the RF70-200. Pre ordered already but nice to confirm that the camera is what I expected. Tried the battery grip too, I like the camera better without it.


good store


----------



## esglord (Jul 12, 2020)

Of all this, I'm most excited about the 800mm. I'm probably the only one though, ha. Lots to look forward to.


----------



## scottkinfw (Jul 12, 2020)

StevenA said:


> Pre-ordered the R5 kit. Will likely pick up the RF 100-500 also. Does anyone know the release date on that lens? I can't find it anywhere.


I read September


----------



## tpatana (Jul 12, 2020)

Electechjr said:


> Local camera shop, Roberts Camera in Indianapolis, had a Canon day today. Got to try out the R5 with the RF70-200. Pre ordered already but nice to confirm that the camera is what I expected. Tried the battery grip too, I like the camera better without it. They also thought they would be able to fill all pre orders with the first shipment of cameras. Hoping they are right.



Interesting, please elaborate about the grip, and do you previously use grip on your current/earlier bodies?

I've had grip since ~2010, and when I bought 5D4 the grip was very expensive and I thought maybe I can live without one. First studio shoot with awkward hand positions and much more tired hands, I decided to order the grip immediately. So I'd be curious why you felt it's better without.

Funny enough, for my sport shooting I have 2-3 regular assistant. The one I use most, after some 3-4 years of shooting with my gripped 5D4 and 1DX, last winter she came to me very excited "Tero! Did you know when you rotate camera to portrait, there's another shutter button on top!!!" Couldn't help but laugh.


----------



## SecureGSM (Jul 12, 2020)

Nelu said:


> The eye detection is a total failure with spiders!


Because there Are how many eyes?


----------



## SecureGSM (Jul 12, 2020)

tpatana said:


> Yes, that's why I was wondering how close the 8k frame looks to 35Mpix still.


10bit RAW is obviously not as flexible as 14 bit one in post. it isn’t 8bit JPEG but noticeably less flexible. Btw. I thought that video RAW was 12 bit. Not 10...


----------



## Joel C (Jul 12, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Just buy a Samyang/Rokinon RF 85mm f/1.4 AF and be happy.
> 
> Seriously, I can't understand why you are complaining. New system. Things don't happen all at once. If they didn't announce you'd be complaining that there was no news of one coming, right?


This is not a new system. If you think it is, well, I guess that on you. If I wanted a Rokinon trash lens, I would have bought the ones I have field tested. My point is, waiting for an announced lens an additional four months is silly. Just announce it in a few months time, we all have the internet, we don't need to attend the conventions to know what is coming out in the next month. hell, here we are on a rumor site right now! 

The 100mm f2.8 macros lens that I currently use is 11 years old, so yeah, I would like something that is not $3,000 USD to replace it. 


Would I be complaining about a rumored lens coming out? No, I wouldn't. My question was in regards to why announce it so early if there are not enough units to release the sale as I have seen the test units in the field.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 12, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> I was calling out what you said only because you put it right next to mentioning the changes you'd see via parallax when moving the camera position (true change in the images). Bouncing around in crops will be the same as throwing on a longer lens minus the difference in resolution and DOF (although DOF can be made equivalent as was demonstrated further back).
> 
> Anyway, sorry to have derailed this thread. It's just a myth that keeps getting perpetuated. I believed it for a long time and argued against it, but I finally understood once I tried some tests myself using my Leica Q's crop mode versus another full frame with interchangeable lenses. Zero difference between Q's 50mm crop (f/1.7) and another camera with 50mm @ f/1.8 shot from the same position. Only differences were those introduced by resolution, bokeh due to the lens designs, etc. But the framing and "compression" of the scene were identical. This is most often misunderstood on medium format forums where everyone thinks their sensor is super magic sauce – when in fact what they're seeing are things like superior sharpness, microcontrast, nice focus falloff, etc. due to superior medium format lenses. But the "compression" isn't better or any different.



Many MF lenses aren't really that "Superior", it's just that the enlargement ratio is so much lower than with 135. If the MF lens can do the same number of lp/mm as the 135 lens, it can do significantly more lp/ih than the 135 lens because the image height is so much larger.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 12, 2020)

martin_ said:


> All talking about the R5 and I only hope that the R6 will drop at least $200 in October and that Sigma or Tamron launch their 24-70 2.8 RF at a good price .
> 
> PD1: 8k is marketing
> PD2: Saludos desde Argentina



If the R6 doesn't ship until September, the price will not drop by October, at least not October 2020. Maybe by October 2021.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 12, 2020)

jayphotoworks said:


> It will depend if it is oversampled I guess. Oversampled it will record for 30 mins and shut down for 10mins which will allow another 10mins. If it is binned or cropped, probably will not. But if that is the case, I’m spendIng almost $6k+ after taxes up here in Canada with the marquee features being essentially heat limited.
> 
> Panasonic knows this and the S1H runs all day long and is Netflix certified. I get the sense Sony (at least based on recent rumors) knows this as well since it was somehow important enough to leak ahead of anything else, aside from the EVF resolution.
> 
> ...



Everyone: "Why can't Canon make FF mirrorless cameras like Sony does?

Canon makes a camera with "spec sheet" 8K video that has heat issues.

Everyone: "OMG. Why does Canon have to pull the same crap as Sony?"


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 12, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> Wooow,  that video was stunning! The photos of the models were ... Ay yi yi ... stunning ... what was I talking about? ... oh yeah - The use of the oriental umbrella as both an artistic prop and a big colorful light diffuser over the head & torso turning bright sunlight into a work of art,  with those models was ... Ay yi yi ... what was I talking about? ... oh yeah ... That really made the 85mm f1.2 look great, as well as the 85mm f2. Wooow!



That just goes to show it is all about subject matter, composition, and lighting before it is anything about minor differences in camera and lens quality/performance.


----------



## scottkinfw (Jul 12, 2020)

StevenA said:


> Here's a video that goes the most in-depth (that I have found) about the R5 stills capabilities.


A most excellent video, well worth the watch.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 12, 2020)

dwarven said:


> Pre-ordered an R6. And now for the long, painful wait for a 135mm (f/1.4?) prime with IS hopefully.



You realize a 135/1.4 would need only a slightly smaller front element diameter than a 300/2.8? Are you prepared to pay $8K for that 135/1.4? The RF 135mm L _might_ be f/1.8, but it will not be f/1.4. That's fantasyland.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 12, 2020)

kten said:


> You may not be taking into account the dailies are often longer than the final cut scene, not by that much but it adds up when you consider not every scene is done in one take either. Plus you may have other scenes and so on. Thus you could still hit overheating filming for final output that is sub 5 minutes tops. Also nearly every single person I know filming 8K or 4K outputs to 1080p generally with some 1440p and 4K and 8K is never the intended final res delivered. Mostly not crop and stabilisation being primary motivation, although they are important it is often for the downsampling from higher is more favourable qualitywise than filming at that res.
> 
> I do think it is ott for talking head stuff I can think of BUT I don't know exactly what he is filming for, for what clients and final viewing intentions. Those considered it could be demanded almost. We often assume based on our use and limited details what we think others need, we are often off the mark when we do that thus I try not to. If he say he needs it maybe he does.
> 
> For me one of the things I like most about Canon is they are conservative and it just works when you want it to and under all conditions typical of the niche it is aimed at. If I wanted spec sheet monsters other companies do that well and my primary reason for avoiding sony is the great value and features but at cost of overheating and not always just work. Don't get me wrong the R5 is looking great but I'd prefer more bulk and slightly less sealing for the sake of more cooling as if I need sealing there are plenty of housing solutions. Or go the accessories route and add a metal coldfinger passive heatsink that you can connect active cooling to externally like some astro and niche sensors have where you can mount active pelt effect or air cooling solutions to the exposed metal on the exterior of shell that is directly connected to the internal cold finger.



For any production at the level you describe in your first paragraph, the difference in cost between having three bodies to rotate on set instead of a single body is miniscule in the overall scale of the total cost per day to shoot.

This is not much different than when TV shows started shooting some shows with 5D Mark IIs and 7Ds: They had to have three bodies to swap out when each started getting too warm.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 12, 2020)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> In Australia Canon products come with a 5 year warranty. Only 12 months in the USA isn't great



Someone has to pay for that year 2-5 coverage.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 12, 2020)

mpmark said:


> I expected a beefy price in CAD but for me to walk out the door with one they'll ask for $6101 after taxes in Canada! Didnt think i'd be blowing 6k though. Are they making up for their losses of Covid? This is getting rediculously expensive to stay in the 5-line camera family, I've owned all from the very first 5D, and each release the price goes up substantially. The only way you'll get one at a better price is wait a year or so, but since the 5Div being release in 2016 the wait is long overdue so this is a tough decision. Now I have to justify 6k is worth blowing for a camera.



How close do you live to the U.S. border?

5D Mark III in 2012: $3,499 USD
5D Mark IV in 2016: $3,499 USD
EOS R5 in $2020: $3,899 USD


----------



## scottkinfw (Jul 12, 2020)

Richard Anthony said:


>



Wow the images are outstanding. The R5 with increased MP really shows a difference vs. the R6.


----------



## tpatana (Jul 12, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> How close do you live to the U.S. border?



Is the border open?


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 12, 2020)

russb said:


> The Canon RP is available for $1000-$1100 US. Capable, full-frame, RF camera. With the EF-RF adapter, there are many inexpensive options for lenses. I use the sigma 14-24/2.8, with filter adapter, and it's brilliant. You might want to search more.



The EOS RP is currently $999 at all authorized US retailers. For the last few weeks it was $899 with an "instant" factory rebate.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 12, 2020)

Chz said:


> I don’t think they will need to have a price guarantee if the preorder is favourable. Why would they both to offer a free R5 jacket if they have high demand?



Because the jackets have already been made?


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 12, 2020)

Ramage said:


> I was big SanDisk guy but had good success with the Lexar 2000x cards in my EOS R.
> 
> I added a Sony "Tough" card recently but that was just shipped back to Sony due to the recall so I am going to avoid those cards as an option for now.
> 
> ...






tpatana said:


> True, especially on the new formats it's better to stay with known brands. For CF I prefer Lexar over SanDisk.




ProGrade is the continuation of Lexar.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 12, 2020)

Chz said:


> That is my point. If the preorders are really high and meet unit allocation then surely they don’t need to offer incentives to drive sales.



What, you want them to hold the jackets with R5 logos until the EOS R Mark II sales are a bit sluggish in a couple of years and offer an "R5" jacket if they order an EOS R Mark II?


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 12, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> You guys in the USA & Canada, get all the great offers, free CF express cards, jackets, price guarantees, etc. Here in the UK we get to pay more @ £4199 for the R5 but can claim a free EF EOSR adapter, when the canon site works. Makes even less sense when my trade in includes the adapter but they will give me a new one with the new camera. Couldn't make this up.



You also get a warranty that we have to pay about $500+tax extra to get.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 12, 2020)

Chz said:


> It could possibly be the case. However, I wonder why they are doing so? If both R5 & R6 are that good (I believe they are) and the RRP in Canada is in line with expectations then people would jump on the preorder like in USA without needing any incentives.



It's called "marketing." 

"Order now and get this "limited edition" jacket that will forever distinguish you as one of the earliest adopters of the new EOS R5!"


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 12, 2020)

Gazwas said:


> I was sure there would have been some sort of incentive here in the UK for early pre-ordering but no such look.
> 
> Didn’t the EOS R get a free grip?
> 
> A discounted CFexpress card would have been a nice gesture but I suppose they think demand will be through the roof for the R5/R6 even during these choppy economic conditions so they’ve not bothered.



Wasn't the free grip several months later after sales slowed on the EOS R. I'm sure once sales slow on the R5, there will be similar promotions at that time.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 12, 2020)

tpatana said:


> Is the border open?



Only for commercial traffic and essential travel. Just hitch a ride with a trucker and be logged onto the sleeper berth for your 10 hour break when he crosses the border. LOL.


----------



## tpatana (Jul 12, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> ProGrade is the continuation of Lexar.



I thought they looked similar. That's good to know so maybe I can trust them, although I already have couple CFExpress cards so I can start with those.


----------



## drama (Jul 12, 2020)

Gazwas said:


> I’d actually prefer an adult conversation with you that has nothing to do with saving anyone’s reputation or dignity.
> 
> Unless I’m wrong, sales of higher end cameras are not as strong today as they were 20 years ago and I am suggesting that while that could be attributed to many things, smart phones and £4000 cameras along with £3000 lenses doesn’t help.



OK, then you're still wrong. It's a commonly overstated stat. DSLR (or equivalent - your chosen acronym for mirrorless cameras) sales have dipped slightly, but in comparison to the largest part of the camera market, which was fixed lens cameras, remained relatively stable. Source here: https://www.statista.com/chart/5782/digital-camera-shipments/

And for the third time, people were paying £4000 for bodies and £3000 for lenses twenty years ago. Given inflation, that's just not a valid reason for why. I'd agree that there's a sliver of the DSLR market who went off with their iphones happily, which might account for a slight dip, but nowhere near the level you've suggested.


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 12, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> You also get a warranty that we have to pay about $500+tax extra to get.


That's true indeed.


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 12, 2020)

drama said:


> OK, then you're still wrong. It's a commonly overstated stat. DSLR (or equivalent - your chosen acronym for mirrorless cameras) sales have dipped slightly, but in comparison to the largest part of the camera market, which was fixed lens cameras, remained relatively stable. Source here: https://www.statista.com/chart/5782/digital-camera-shipments/
> 
> And for the third time, people were paying £4000 for bodies and £3000 for lenses twenty years ago. Given inflation, that's just not a valid reason for why. I'd agree that there's a sliver of the DSLR market who went off with their iphones happily, which might account for a slight dip, but nowhere near the level you've suggested.


Hi, just interested and don't want to interrupt your riveting discussion but what sort of camera bodies cost £4000 or £3000 20 years ago? I can only think of maybe 1 dx series or a Hasselblad which I may be wrong but I don't think they are classed as mainstream so probably wouldn't form a majority of the market?

I don't have an opinion on either side of your conversation but just interested that's all?


----------



## CvH (Jul 12, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Because the jackets have already been made?



Why would they need to make the jacket in the first place? Unless they knew the RRP will be above people’s expectation?


----------



## CvH (Jul 12, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> What, you want them to hold the jackets with R5 logos until the EOS R Mark II sales are a bit sluggish in a couple of years and offer an "R5" jacket if they order an EOS R Mark II?



My point is they wouldn’t need to throw in incentives such as the jacket if the RRP is inline within the price point of the 5D line.


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 12, 2020)

Chz said:


> Why would they need to make the jacket in the first place? Unless they knew the RRP will be above people’s expectation?


Ooh, love a good discussion. I bet from previous sales figures, some smart Alec in Marketing thought they should offer that particular market a treat to entice the children into the shop and once they are in, ha, they're trapped forever. A bit like the child catcher in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang. 

Lol, I've just read this back and now not sure if it's politically correct. oh well, never mind. 

On a side note, I'm not sure I'd want to wear a jacket with Canon EOS R5 plastered all over it. Maybe if it was very good quality and the branding was discrete I'd consider it. and by discrete, I mean very small.


----------



## Kit. (Jul 12, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Stills raw will be 14 bits, video raw - 10 bits and lossy.
> I don't know if it's important for the case in question.


Video raw is 12 bits, as far as I know. Should make little if any difference compared to 14 bits at ISO 400 and up.


----------



## CvH (Jul 12, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> It's called "marketing."
> 
> "Order now and get this "limited edition" jacket that will forever distinguish you as one of the earliest adopters of the new EOS R5!"



Or they knew that they wouldn’t get the preorder numbers and needs a bit of incentives to win over those who may be on the fence.


----------



## CvH (Jul 12, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> Ooh, love a good discussion. I bet from previous sales figures, some smart Alec in Marketing thought they should offer that particular market a treat to entice the children into the shop and once they are in, ha, they're trapped forever. A bit like the child catcher in Chitty Chitty Bang Bang.
> 
> Lol, I've just read this back and now not sure if it's politically correct. oh well, never mind.
> 
> On a side note, I'm not sure I'd want to wear a jacket with Canon EOS R5 plastered all over it. Maybe if it was very good quality and the branding was discrete I'd consider it. and by discrete, I mean very small.



I certainly won’t give them free promotion by wearing the R5 jacket if I have one. I never use their camera straps.

The RRP for the R5 in Australia is A$7099. Some local retailers already dropped it to around A$6500, and includes a lucky strap and battery.


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 12, 2020)

Chz said:


> I certainly won’t give them free promotion by wearing the R5 jacket if I have one. I never use their camera straps.
> 
> The RRP for the R5 in Australia is A$7099. Some local retailers already dropped it to around A$6500, and includes a lucky strap and battery.


I presume you are from down under? I'm like you, apart from the Canon straps being no good for shoulder carrying and not long enough to do cross body, I just replace with a Peak Design slide which is far more comfortable, practical and durable, plus doesn't shout to everyone 'look what camera I've got'. Hate that

interesting that prices have dropped before the Camera is even released, that's a little weird and not sure what it says about the market or perceived demand for the product?


----------



## Chris.Chapterten (Jul 12, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> I presume you are from down under? I'm like you, apart from the Canon straps being no good for shoulder carrying and not long enough to do cross body, I just replace with a Peak Design slide which is far more comfortable, practical and durable, plus doesn't shout to everyone 'look what camera I've got'. Hate that
> 
> interesting that prices have dropped before the Camera is even released, that's a little weird and not sure what it says about the market or perceived demand for the product?


I think retailers in Australia realised $7099 was just a bit too hard to stomach for most customers... at $6500 it's roughly equal in cost to importing one from the states and then paying local taxes on top. This way local retailers don't lose sales to people shopping with overseas retailers..


----------



## -pekr- (Jul 12, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Everyone: "Why can't Canon make FF mirrorless cameras like Sony does?
> 
> Canon makes a camera with "spec sheet" 8K video that has heat issues.
> 
> Everyone: "OMG. Why does Canon have to pull the same crap as Sony?"



I am quite shocked how negative reviewers could get. E.g. Tony & Chelsea Northrup - did not those guys say stuff like - no way 8K is more than a timelapse mode? Now they seem to rave about the overheating. They should rent C200 for the 4K/60 stable performance though and not complain about the production level stuff with the small MILC camera of any brand, even if those might be regarded being professional ...


----------



## CvH (Jul 12, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> I presume you are from down under? I'm like you, apart from the Canon straps being no good for shoulder carrying and not long enough to do cross body, I just replace with a Peak Design slide which is far more comfortable, practical and durable, plus doesn't shout to everyone 'look what camera I've got'. Hate that
> 
> interesting that prices have dropped before the Camera is even released, that's a little weird and not sure what it says about the market or perceived demand for the product?



Yes I am in Melbourne. I have been using the BlackRapid strap and hands traps from SpiderPro. I also have the Peakdesign Capture.

I believe the RRP in Australia is too high hence preorders are lower than what Canon Australia have predicted. Hence the local retailers are dropping the RRP.


----------



## CvH (Jul 12, 2020)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> I think retailers in Australia realised $7099 was just a bit too hard to stomach for most customers... at $6500 it's roughly equal in cost to importing one from the states and then paying local taxes on top. This way local retailers don't lose sales to people shopping with overseas retailers..



Agree. A$6500 is closer to price parity against some overseas markets such as USA and Singapore.


----------



## mariosk1gr (Jul 12, 2020)

A very serious question from me is about the Dynamic Range when shooting on 8k Raw video. When you shoot 8k raw doesn't that mean that DR is the same as when you shoot Raw photos with R5? Im asking cause I red somewhere that 8K Raw with C-Log is only 12 stops DR cause C-Log can't provide better DR like the C-Log2 and C-Log3 on cinema cameras like C200, C300 Mark III, C500 Mark II. I had the same question for 1Dx Mark III which had C-Log also. Parker Walbeck for example said to one of his videos that 1Dx Mark III has 14+ stops of DR... but other I found that C-Log can't provide more than 12 stops. If this is true then it's a shame to have that amazing videos specs on such limited DR. 1Dx Mark III tested and rated by DxO at 14.5 stops of DR. So that means that R5 may even get higher than that! That's incredible news because Canon at last is on par with Nikon and Sony regarding DR. C-Log is a flat profile that isn't embedded in Raw video from what I know so far... then how they say that it's limited on 12 stops regarding DR when shooting Raw video on R5? If someone can enlighten me, please do so!

P.S. Sorry for my bad english.


----------



## Kit. (Jul 12, 2020)

mariosk1gr said:


> A very serious question from me is about the Dynamic Range when shooting on 8k Raw video. When you shoot 8k raw doesn't that mean that DR is the same as when you shoot Raw photos with R5?


...with electronic shutter.

The DR with mechanical shutter is higher, but only at ISOs 100 up to 400. Further up in ISO, the DR is limited by photon count of incoming light.


----------



## Gazwas (Jul 12, 2020)

Not complaining but just wonder why there is no Clog2 or Clog3 on the R5?

is that how Canon protects the Cinema line?


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Jul 12, 2020)

Chz said:


> Or they knew that they wouldn’t get the preorder numbers and needs a bit of incentives to win over those who may be on the fence.



Customer - "I'm just not sure I want to spend 6K on a new Camera"

Sales Person - "It comes with a free jacket if you order now!!"

Customer - "How can I resist" 

You really think anyone gives a rats ass about a jacket? Every year I get my "free" CPS stuff and it just collects dust, ok I use the pen. No way a free jacket is driving sales...

The Aussies are getting a Limited Edition EOS R5 Leather Lucky Strap (Bonus) and Extra Battery. I wish they offered the extra battery here in Canada, that will be useful, but would not factor into if I buy something or not. 

Free Jacket, Free Battery, etc are not why people drop 6K on a Camera (least it should not be)


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 12, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> I am quite shocked how negative reviewers could get. E.g. Tony & Chelsea Northrup - did not those guys say stuff like - no way 8K is more than a timelapse mode? Now they seem to rave about the overheating. They should rent C200 for the 4K/60 stable performance though and not complain about the production level stuff with the small MILC camera of any brand, even if those might be regarded being professional ...


I watched the Tony & Chelsea Northrup video and was quite frustrated with them. They tried to come over as not negative but sorry, they clearly were negative and haven't even tested it yet. All Chelsea seemed to want is for Canon to give her one to test as she thought it was terrible that Canon would only give pre production versions to Ambassadors and not to independent reviewers. 

Why on earth would Canon or any manufacturer want to give Production cameras to people who don't work for them or have links with them?? 

Me thinks think you do protest too much Mr & Mrs Northrup!!


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 12, 2020)

Chz said:


> Yes I am in Melbourne. I have been using the BlackRapid strap and hands traps from SpiderPro. I also have the Peakdesign Capture.
> 
> I believe the RRP in Australia is too high hence preorders are lower than what Canon Australia have predicted. Hence the local retailers are dropping the RRP.


What do you think to the Capture? I purchased one and used it with my EOS R and 24-105mm F4L but found it not comfortable at all on my belt or on the rucksack strap. I sent it back as I won't use it. Is it me or does it warrant the advertising hype?


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Jul 12, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> I watched the Tony & Chelsea Northrup video and was quite frustrated with them. They tried to come over as not negative but sorry, they clearly were negative and haven't even tested it yet. All Chelsea seemed to want is for Canon to give her one to test as she thought it was terrible that Canon would only give pre production versions to Ambassadors and not to independent reviewers.
> 
> Why on earth would Canon or any manufacturer want to give Production cameras to people who don't work for them or have links with them??
> 
> Me thinks think you do protest too much Mr & Mrs Northrup!!


The challenge with YouTube is these "reviewers" just want the traffic and crapping on Canon ensures that the Sony crowd will all watch so they can worship at the alter of Canon hate and the Canon user watch cause it is infuriating to see so much fail.


----------



## scyrene (Jul 12, 2020)

Ramage said:


> Curious what things people are looking forward to and what people are less excited about.



For me, probably the most exciitng thing is 8 stop image stabilisation, even with all the caveats. I got a new phone this year and it does simulated long exposures (night mode) handheld that works up to ~10 seconds, which has transformed the sort of situations I can take pictures in. Obviously the Canon system is very different (not least the ease of holding a big camera + lens still for several seconds), but I would be very interested to try pushing that to its limits.


----------



## CvH (Jul 12, 2020)

Ramage said:


> Customer - "I'm just not sure I want to spend 6K on a new Camera"
> 
> Sales Person - "It comes with a free jacket if you order now!!"
> 
> ...



Canon Australia - Hey we are going to make a lot profit from the R5, why don't we just cut our profit by giving out the camera strap and battery? Yeah right!

Their marketing department isn't silly. Of course people don't buy the R5 because of the freebies. Those already made up their mind. The incentives may deter those who might getting the camera from overseas.


----------



## CvH (Jul 12, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> What do you think to the Capture? I purchased one and used it with my EOS R and 24-105mm F4L but found it not comfortable at all on my belt or on the rucksack strap. I sent it back as I won't use it. Is it me or does it warrant the advertising hype?



I bought the Capture recently so haven't given it a good test due to the lockdown. I am planning to have it on the shoulder strap of my backpack when hiking etc. Agree that it doesn't look comfortable when on the bell. I think the SpiderPro is the best if you shoot wedding and events?


----------



## kten (Jul 12, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> For any production at the level you describe in your first paragraph, the difference in cost between having three bodies to rotate on set instead of a single body is miniscule in the overall scale of the total cost per day to shoot.
> 
> This is not much different than when TV shows started shooting some shows with 5D Mark IIs and 7Ds: They had to have three bodies to swap out when each started getting too warm.


Sorry I wasn't clear on I was more replying to several comments on previous pages and (very poorly) making the point on when folks dictate what someone else needs, like the you don't need 8K because I don't crowd jumping on others. Just mixed in with my personal thoughts of a move away from Canons more conservative just works in normal conditions with no limits may look like I'm saying it is right tool for what you suggest whem IMHO if you NEED that you should get a cine cam. My bad so apologies on that. Totally not saying it should be first choice for a replacement cine cam in general, and I recall the dslr for production use and they tended to be for limited niche scenes where that was the best tool when many of the productions used more appropriate gear in other scenes or other shows the same folks worked on. Exact same point when folks shouted at the time you can't use dslrs for tv production when in some niches it was the best tool if you had all the info they had.

The overheating issue won't affect me, doesn't particularly bother me and I totally feel it is blown out of proportion. A lot of the hate is either shills who are paid to do that which I dislike but understand and affiliate influencers mostly fall into that thus I get why they wont bite the sponsors being fair and controversy drives clicks too, sucks but just how the world is. Rest is brand tribalism which I have no time for despite being Canon shooter exclusively since switched from film (pentax then mostly). Never jumped ship throughout the "cripple years" and although never defended some of the crippling of lines I never hated on it and they have always been good enough to produce professional images. What bothers me most is folks spend more time arguing on forums instead of improving their photo game these days and I feel youtube influencers and like feed that rather than inspiring people to make better images regardless of brand.


----------



## koenkooi (Jul 12, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> What do you think to the Capture? I purchased one and used it with my EOS R and 24-105mm F4L but found it not comfortable at all on my belt or on the rucksack strap. I sent it back as I won't use it. Is it me or does it warrant the advertising hype?


I started using the capture a few weeks ago and I like it very much for long lenses, like the 180mm macro. With shorter lenses it seems to bounce around a bit more. 
The opposite end of the spectrum, M6II with 32mm, works great, but the capture feels a bit overkill for that.
Too soon for me to give recommendation either way.


----------



## Gazwas (Jul 12, 2020)

scyrene said:


> For me, probably the most exciitng thing is 8 stop image stabilisation, even with all the caveats. I got a new phone this year and it does simulated long exposures (night mode) handheld that works up to ~10 seconds, which has transformed the sort of situations I can take pictures in. Obviously the Canon system is very different (not least the ease of holding a big camera + lens still for several seconds), but I would be very interested to try pushing that to its limits.


Most exciting for me is the AF that looks superb in both stills and more impressively video. 100% viewfinder coverage is just mind blowing and the accuracy of the eye AF in the videos published so far looks ‘A’mazing


----------



## scyrene (Jul 12, 2020)

Joel C said:


> This is not a new system. If you think it is, well, I guess that on you. If I wanted a Rokinon trash lens, I would have bought the ones I have field tested. My point is, waiting for an announced lens an additional four months is silly. Just announce it in a few months time, we all have the internet, we don't need to attend the conventions to know what is coming out in the next month. hell, here we are on a rumor site right now!
> 
> The 100mm f2.8 macros lens that I currently use is 11 years old, so yeah, I would like something that is not $3,000 USD to replace it.
> 
> ...



So it's better not to know about a lens until it comes out? If the availability is October, what difference doe it make whether they announce it now or in a couple of months' time? Having the information sooner doesn't do any harm, but can allow some people to plan ahead, budget etc. On the other hand, some people say companies should release roadmaps of all future products. I'm ambivalent.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jul 12, 2020)

Ramage said:


> Customer - "I'm just not sure I want to spend 6K on a new Camera"
> 
> Sales Person - "It comes with a free jacket if you order now!!"
> 
> ...



At Camera Pro where I pre-ordered it, they also have a bonus EF-RF adapter.
These little addons may work as a last straw for some potential buyers, they create an illusion of a greater value than they really are


----------



## CvH (Jul 12, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> At Camera Pro where I pre-ordered it, they also have a bonus EF-RF adapter.
> These little addons may work as a last straw for some potential buyers, they create an illusion of a greater value than they really are


----------



## CvH (Jul 12, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> At Camera Pro where I pre-ordered it, they also have a bonus EF-RF adapter.
> These little addons may work as a last straw for some potential buyers, they create an illusion of a greater value than they really are



Yes, when ones add up the battery, strap and adapter, the R5 no longer appears more expensive then overseas markets.


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Jul 12, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> At Camera Pro where I pre-ordered it, they also have a bonus EF-RF adapter.
> These little addons may work as a last straw for some potential buyers, they create an illusion of a greater value than they really are


Yeah, when I got the R one shop offered a free battery and adapter while everyone else was selling with just the adapter.

So far I have not seen any exclusive to a store offers here in Canada.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jul 12, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> I am quite shocked how negative reviewers could get. E.g. Tony & Chelsea Northrup - did not those guys say stuff like - no way 8K is more than a timelapse mode? Now they seem to rave about the overheating. They should rent C200 for the 4K/60 stable performance though and not complain about the production level stuff with the small MILC camera of any brand, even if those might be regarded being professional ...



Arrgh why did you make me watch Tony again 
I completely 'banned' TonyN from my youtube after his hilarious profanation on diffraction in photography. I realised the guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
In this video, he basically says nothing but 'we don't know yet if the R5 is good or bad', and Chelsea just echoing him. Zero information.


----------



## Kit. (Jul 12, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Arrgh why did you make me watch Tony again
> I completely 'banned' TonyN from my youtube after his hilarious profanation on diffraction in photography. I realised the guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
> In this video, he basically says nothing but 'we don't know yet if the R5 is good or bad', and Chelsea just echoing him. Zero information.


Tony & Chelsea are not for listening. They look much better if you turn the sound off.


----------



## -pekr- (Jul 12, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Arrgh why did you make me watch Tony again
> I completely 'banned' TonyN from my youtube after his hilarious profanation on diffraction in photography. I realised the guy doesn't know what he's talking about.
> In this video, he basically says nothing but 'we don't know yet if the R5 is good or bad', and Chelsea just echoing him. Zero information.



Sorry to ruin your day. So here's much more balanced point of view from Armando Ferreira


----------



## Twinix (Jul 12, 2020)

Mark3794 said:


> Since everyone on the internet is screaming "overheating" (at least they found a different word this time, "crippled" wasn't fun anymore) i'll post the latest temp limits by Canon.
> 
> 8K Raw 20 minutes, 4k120p 15 minutes, 4k60p 35 minutes, 4k30 (8.2k oversampling 30 minutes), 4k 30p not limited by heat.
> 
> All in a fully weathersealed body. Let's see if someone else can do better.


4K 30p (25p in my case) not limited? Nice. Do you got the specs for the R6?


----------



## AlanF (Jul 12, 2020)

The gas is recurring - I need councelling.


----------



## JoTomOz (Jul 12, 2020)

Chz said:


> I certainly won’t give them free promotion by wearing the R5 jacket if I have one. I never use their camera straps.
> 
> The RRP for the R5 in Australia is A$7099. Some local retailers already dropped it to around A$6500, and includes a lucky strap and battery.



From what a couple reps have told me, Canon AU no longer set/advertise RRP for cameras/ lenses. I get the impression it is a bit of a free for all at the beginning when new gear is released. DigiDrect had the R5 preorder price at AU$6300ish at one stage but has now settled a couple hundred higher.


----------



## Ozarker (Jul 12, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> Sorry to ruin your day. So here's much more balanced point of view from Armando Ferreira


Great video! Thanks for the link.


----------



## HenryL (Jul 12, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> I watched the Tony & Chelsea Northrup video and was quite frustrated with them. They tried to come over as not negative but sorry, they clearly were negative and haven't even tested it yet. All Chelsea seemed to want is for Canon to give her one to test as she thought it was terrible that Canon would only give pre production versions to Ambassadors and not to independent reviewers.
> 
> Why on earth would Canon or any manufacturer want to give Production cameras to people who don't work for them or have links with them??
> 
> Me thinks think you do protest too much Mr & Mrs Northrup!!


The faux outrage is strong with those two. So is the self-importance and lack of valuable content. Just sayin...


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 12, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> I am quite shocked how negative reviewers could get. E.g. Tony & Chelsea Northrup - did not those guys say stuff like - no way 8K is more than a timelapse mode? Now they seem to rave about the overheating. They should rent C200 for the 4K/60 stable performance though and not complain about the production level stuff with the small MILC camera of any brand, even if those might be regarded being professional ...


I've got to agree For the majority of videos they do that are tutorials, I find them quite enjoyable but over the last few months their review / News videos have all had a Bias towards Sony and an underlying negative tone towards canon.

I found Chelsea's attitude in this video awful, just like a spoilt child. Canon give me a camera to test!! NOW!!. Get a life and maybe concentrate on tutorials and not reviews. 

If I was Canon, or Sony or Panasonic etc. I wouldn't give them a camera to test before it was released. Why would you unless you want to kill sales.

Grouchy rant over.


----------



## CvH (Jul 12, 2020)

JoTomOz said:


> From what a couple reps have told me, Canon AU no longer set/advertise RRP for cameras/ lenses. I get the impression it is a bit of a free for all at the beginning when new gear is released. DigiDrect had the R5 preorder price at AU$6300ish at one stage but has now settled a couple hundred higher.



The R5 price on the Canon online store is A$7099. The local stores typically quoted it as the RRP. 

Yes, some local stores are dropping their preorder prices to around A$6500.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jul 12, 2020)

Chz said:


> Yes, when ones add up the battery, strap and adapter, the R5 no longer appears more expensive then overseas markets.



Well the second battery is very useful (basically it's a must, although I already have 2 old-gen spare batteries for 5DIV) and the adapter is a must for me as I'm not going to buy any RF glass anytime soon. So those things definitely save about $300 for me, but the limited edition strap? Come on!



Ramage said:


> Yeah, when I got the R one shop offered a free battery and adapter while everyone else was selling with just the adapter.


I think Canon should be giving adapters (at least the cheapest plain ones) for free along with R5 or R6 purchases. Which I recall they did for the R in some regions, but it should continue with the R5 and R6.


----------



## padam (Jul 12, 2020)

"Future R5 firmware updates plan to add 1080/120p, lower bitrate options for RAW and IPB in all recording modes, and Canon Log 3."

Looks like an even more serious hybrid camera, no such firmware updates planned for the R6


----------



## AlanF (Jul 12, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> I've got to agree For the majority of videos they do that are tutorials, I find them quite enjoyable but over the last few months their review / News videos have all had a Bias towards Sony and an underlying negative tone towards canon.
> 
> I found Chelsea's attitude in this video awful, just like a spoilt child. Canon give me a camera to test!! NOW!!. Get a life and maybe concentrate on tutorials and not reviews.
> 
> ...


Just ignore them and don't click on their YouTube. They have got a life, a very good one, paid for by your clicks.


----------



## Besisika (Jul 12, 2020)

Gazwas said:


> Not complaining but just wonder why there is no Clog2 or Clog3 on the R5?
> 
> is that how Canon protects the Cinema line?


I don't know the answer but it crossed my mind too. My mind is totally at ease though, I receive enough for my money that I don't dare criticize any longer.


----------



## CvH (Jul 12, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Well the second battery is very useful (basically it's a must, although I already have 2 old-gen spare batteries for 5DIV) and the adapter is a must for me as I'm not going to buy any RF glass anytime soon. So those things definitely save about $300 for me, but the limited edition strap? Come on!
> 
> 
> I think Canon should be giving adapters (at least the cheapest plain ones) for free along with R5 or R6 purchases. Which I recall they did for the R in some regions, but it should continue with the R5 and R6.



Yup, the strap would be useless to me.

I got the free AF-EF adapter when I bought my R from JB HiFi.


----------



## Gazwas (Jul 12, 2020)

padam said:


> "Future R5 firmware updates plan to add 1080/120p, lower bitrate options for RAW and IPB in all recording modes, and Canon Log 3.


Where did you hear this great news?


----------



## koenkooi (Jul 12, 2020)

padam said:


> "Future R5 firmware updates plan to add 1080/120p, lower bitrate options for RAW and IPB in all recording modes, and Canon Log 3."
> 
> Looks like an even more serious hybrid camera, no such firmware updates planned for the R6



In general: don’t buy something for the specs the manufacturer says they’ll implement in the future, only buy it for what it does now.


----------



## WriteLight (Jul 12, 2020)

Was posted on Canon Japan. I have seen a other places as well.


----------



## GMCPhotographics (Jul 12, 2020)

Wow...UK price for the R5 body is way over inflated compared to US price. US $3899. Through the current 1.26 exchange rate, £3094.44. Dial in a 20% vat rate, £3713.33 should be the accurate UK price. Current uk price: £4199!!! £500 higher than it should be, $600 is you do the conversion numbers. 
Typically in the UK we take the US $ price and change the $ for £ sign and that usually equates the VAt margin...but this camera is WAY more expensive than that. £300 MORE than that. Canon is being greedy with the UK market again.


----------



## Eclipsed (Jul 12, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Wasn't the free grip several months later after sales slowed on the EOS R. I'm sure once sales slow on the R5, there will be similar promotions at that time.


Just for fun, what would anyone predict for the first date a major retailer (Adorama or BH) has an R5 in stock at normal price and ready to ship? I’ll guess Jan 1 2021.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 12, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> Wooow,  that video was stunning! The photos of the models were ... Ay yi yi ... stunning ... what was I talking about? ... oh yeah - The use of the oriental umbrella as both an artistic prop and a big colorful light diffuser over the head & torso turning bright sunlight into a work of art,  with those models was ... Ay yi yi ... what was I talking about? ... oh yeah ... That really made the 85mm f1.2 look great, as well as the 85mm f2. Wooow!


Having watched Irene’s videos since she began I don’t see anything different in the actual images from her normal 5D III and her EF 85 f1.2.


----------



## SecureGSM (Jul 12, 2020)

Chz said:


> I certainly won’t give them free promotion by wearing the R5 jacket if I have one. I never use their camera straps.
> 
> The RRP for the R5 in Australia is A$7099. *Some local retailers already dropped it to around A$6500*, and includes a lucky strap and battery.


Great! ... another A$1,000 off and then we a talking.. they can keep the strap, I will have a battery or two, thanks


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 12, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> Sorry to ruin your day. So here's much more balanced point of view from Armando Ferreira


This was actually quite a balanced and realistic review, especially around the limitations on video and heat, so much so that I subscribed to his channel. I'll give it a whirl to see what future episodes are like.


----------



## Kit. (Jul 12, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> In general: don’t buy something for the specs the manufacturer says they’ll implement in the future, only buy it for what it does now.


That also means "never preorder".


----------



## Kit. (Jul 12, 2020)

Eclipsed said:


> Has anyone ever proposed a dual mode in which


Could be patented... but that's double the throughput. And will likely overheat in 10 minutes instead of 20.


----------



## Able (Jul 12, 2020)

padam said:


> "Future R5 firmware updates plan to add 1080/120p, lower bitrate options for RAW and IPB in all recording modes, and Canon Log 3."
> 
> Looks like an even more serious hybrid camera, no such firmware updates planned for the R6


I’m going to need a direct link to this quote to confirm it’s authenticity. Till then, I will remain skeptical


----------



## usern4cr (Jul 12, 2020)

I know this is the current "hot"-topic, so I thought I'd give my 2 cents on it (that's about all it's worth):

I happen to be a "stills shooter", so the fuss about overheating doesn't really worry me either way.
But the video I've seen (animal eye-AF etc) is so stunning that I'd probably get into video after all. But I wouldn't be in to it hot & heavy (no pun intended) and I don't think it would be an issue at all, and if it was then I'd just enjoy the great 4K which is probably more than I'd hope for anyway.

Since I am a stills shooter, my main concern (and not a big one) is whether the low pass sensor filter they mention will dull the resolution of the stills it takes or not. Many here have mentioned it probably will be a mild filter version. I'm assuming Canon knows how to make it high quality and good, so I'm not going to sweat it.

My bottom line is that I've been waiting a long time to buy into the Canon FF system with quality glass and I don't want to have to wait for the next R... camera to come out in a year or so. So I'm going to enjoy the heck out of my R5 and be happy for all the incredible things I can do with it now. In the future when they come out with the next R... with better this-or-that, I'll be able to consider buying it as a 2nd body to go with my existing R lenses.

So, win-win - let the fun begin!


----------



## Richard Anthony (Jul 12, 2020)




----------



## highdesertmesa (Jul 12, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Many MF lenses aren't really that "Superior", it's just that the enlargement ratio is so much lower than with 135. If the MF lens can do the same number of lp/mm as the 135 lens, it can do significantly more lp/ih than the 135 lens because the image height is so much larger.



I was thinking specifically about the GF lenses for GFX. Older film MF lenses were not very high-resolving in comparison.


----------



## padam (Jul 12, 2020)

Able said:


> I’m going to need a direct link to this quote to confirm it’s authenticity. Till then, I will remain skeptical








キヤノン：EOS R5 ｜ 動画撮影


ミラーレスカメラEOS R5の動画撮影をご紹介しているページです。




cweb.canon.jp




I have checked it with a different translator
What I think it means is right now there is no Canon Log 3 conversion for the RAW recording.

And, they are going to add IPB compression where it is grayed out and only ALL-I is possible.

Furthermore, they will add 1080p 120fps for those who don't want 4k 120fps with the file sizes and overheating.


----------



## SteveC (Jul 12, 2020)

Preordered on June 18th so maybe I'll see one soon. Getting into full frame with a bang!

Still looking forward to this, overheating be damned. 

I do shoot casual videos to go alongside the stills (e.g., I want to capture an animal in motion once I've shot pictures), but I doubt I'll ever use 8K for anything--maybe never even 4K.

[Since this is what I do, clearly no one else should ever want to do anything differently, therefore this issue is overblown. And I shouldn't have to say this but have to anyway: /sarc. "Sarchasm" being the gulf between you and the guy who doesn't realize you're being sarcastic.]


----------



## Besisika (Jul 12, 2020)

Besisika said:


> I don't know the answer but it crossed my mind too. My mind is totally at ease though, I receive enough for my money that I don't dare criticize any longer.


EOSHD claims that Log3 will be added later.





Canon EOS R5 to get firmware update for Canon LOG 3 and more compressed 8K RAW recording (possibly 4K RAW too) – EOSHD.com – Filmmaking Gear and Camera Reviews







www.eoshd.com


----------



## highdesertmesa (Jul 12, 2020)

-pekr- said:


> I am quite shocked how negative reviewers could get. E.g. Tony & Chelsea Northrup - did not those guys say stuff like - no way 8K is more than a timelapse mode? Now they seem to rave about the overheating. They should rent C200 for the 4K/60 stable performance though and not complain about the production level stuff with the small MILC camera of any brand, even if those might be regarded being professional ...



And they complained about not knowing if the R5/6 animal eye-AF was going to work, when clearly there are videos on YouTube showing this. And the videos are linked to from multiple sites like Fredmiranda, here, and in Canon Facebook groups. It's like it's their first time using the Internet or something.


----------



## sercheese (Jul 12, 2020)

Hello, is it true, that using Canon R6 with his 20 Mpx sensor will restrict the high resolution of RF lenses? I read that they are capable of even 100 Mpx. Than it would be better to choose R5 with his 45 Mpx. Of course I will not print big pictures but I thought that maybe after zooming in you will still have much more detail as while using R6?


----------



## Billybob (Jul 12, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> And they complained about not knowing if the R5/6 animal eye-AF was going to work, when clearly there are videos on YouTube showing this. And the videos are linked to from multiple sites like Fredmiranda, here, and in Canon Facebook groups. It's like it's their first time using the Internet or something.


I'm struggling with all the hating on the Northrup's. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they make it clear that they are not criticizing the R5. They can't, they don't have it. Rather, they are throwing in a contrarian perspective by saying "wait until objective reviews get posted before getting too excited".

Isn't their advice the essence of prudent decision making? Instead of focusing on all the "wow's" for which there are many and the Canon marketing and ambassadors have highlighted, also make sure that you have vetted all the potential negatives before making a purchase decision. Never get too positive or too negative on an important purchasing decision. 

Personally, I have gotten caught up in all the hype. I have a pre-order placed, but I do need to consider the negatives before allowing shipment. First, I am a stills shooter so the overheating problem is a rather minor concern (not a decision factor). However, I do care about the anti-aliasing filter. If it's too strong, then the IQ could be a significant downgrade from my A7rIII. I don't need 60, 70, or 80MP, but I don't want to take a step back from the most brilliant sensor I've ever used. A related factor is the DR. It will be nice to see if it does in fact have the one-stop improvement promised. 

Other concerns involve continuous shooting, probably the main reason I've ordered this camera. There will be rolling-shutter artifacts, but how severe? What will be the penalty for shooting 20fps electronic? Will it be 12-bit or even 10-bit images? Will the DR drop noticeably when shooting at that fast repeat rate? What happens to the DR shooting at 20fps? Does it drop as well? Finally, how close are the 12/20fps continuous to reality? If I can only achieve--or come close to these values--in shooting situations that are not common to my shooting practices, then the camera doesn't make sense. 

What else is important to know before using this camera? 

While negative responses to any of these questions is unlikely to change my buying decision (unless extremely negative), I would like to be fully informed before making this kind of sizable purchase. Basically, if you are upgrading from the 5dIV (or considering a move from Sony or Nikon land) isn't it important to know that the r5 is indeed an upgrade in dimensions that matter to you? I think so. 

So, I"m hoping that there will be objective reviews released before the r5 ships. If not, I may cancel my preorder and wait for those reviews to appear.


----------



## highdesertmesa (Jul 12, 2020)

Billybob said:


> I'm struggling with all the hating on the Northrup's. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they make it clear that they are not criticizing the R5. They can't, they don't have it. Rather, they are throwing in a contrarian perspective by saying "wait until objective reviews get posted before getting too excited".
> 
> Isn't their advice the essence of prudent decision making? Instead of focusing on all the "wow's" for which there are many and the Canon marketing and ambassadors have highlighted, also make sure that you have vetted all the potential negatives before making a purchase decision. Never get too positive or too negative on an important purchasing decision.
> 
> ...



Some of their concerns, yes, there have been no notable reports yet. But many things like the AA filter have been talked about already. Canon is saying the new low pass filter tech plus RF glass is letting the R5 outresolve the 5DsR. I’m not trying to hate on them, but given their stature, I just expected a little more Googling on their part.


----------



## BakaBokeh (Jul 12, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> What do you think to the Capture? I purchased one and used it with my EOS R and 24-105mm F4L but found it not comfortable at all on my belt or on the rucksack strap. I sent it back as I won't use it. Is it me or does it warrant the advertising hype?


Different strokes for different folks I guess. I love the capture clip and use it on my strap. It is weird to have some weight dangling but to allow you to free your hands quickly is invaluable. Make sure it on the left strap as that provides the most natural operation. The peak design arca Swiss plate is very low profile and unobtrusive so it lives on all my bodies. Also I converted all my tripods to arca Swiss, put arca Swiss quick release on gimbals so mounting and removing everything is blazing fast.


----------



## highdesertmesa (Jul 12, 2020)

Lloyd Chambers is reporting focus stacking is on the R5 but not R6. First news I’ve heard about focus stacking on the new bodies.


----------



## HenryL (Jul 12, 2020)

Billybob said:


> I'm struggling with all the hating on the Northrup's. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they make it clear that they are not criticizing the R5. They can't, they don't have it. Rather, they are throwing in a contrarian perspective by saying "wait until objective reviews get posted before getting too excited".
> 
> Isn't their advice the essence of prudent decision making? Instead of focusing on all the "wow's" for which there are many and the Canon marketing and ambassadors have highlighted, also make sure that you have vetted all the potential negatives before making a purchase decision. Never get too positive or too negative on an important purchasing decision.
> 
> ...


I get where you're coming from...but in regards to this particular video I disagree. Yes, they use the words that they are not criticizing, but the tone is definitely critical. It's not what they say, but how they say it, that turned me off anyway. I won't presume to speak for others. 

The AA filter is said to be the same/use the same technology as the one on the 1DX MIII, and Canon claims the R5 can out resolve the 5DsR. I also recall, but can't be certain which discussion it was in, that the claim is no rolling shutter in 12fps mechanical shutter mode, and the way the 20fps electronic shutter was mentioned in that context made it sound like there may be some in that mode. I think this as in the ProAV video linked earlier in this thread? 

Anyway, nothing wrong with being cautious and waiting for more info to roll in before buying the R5. I have been without my 5DIV since April and I'm jonesing to have my FF back. I am confident the R5 will be a nice upgrade from the 5DIV for landscape, portrait, macro work. What I'm not sure of is can it also replace my 7DII for BIF? I think it will do nicely, won't mind the 20mp to 17mp drop with the crop mode it's close enough and the tracking should actually be better with the R5. Looking forward to finding out soon.


----------



## korbar (Jul 12, 2020)

Billybob said:


> I'm struggling with all the hating on the Northrup's. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they make it clear that they are not criticizing the R5. They can't, they don't have it. Rather, they are throwing in a contrarian perspective by saying "wait until objective reviews get posted before getting too excited".
> 
> Isn't their advice the essence of prudent decision making? Instead of focusing on all the "wow's" for which there are many and the Canon marketing and ambassadors have highlighted, also make sure that you have vetted all the potential negatives before making a purchase decision. Never get too positive or too negative on an important purchasing decision.
> 
> ...




Man, I was just so disappointed with their presentation of info. I usually hold them in pretty high regards and look for Tony's input. I even went to their channel hoping they'd have posted something before that video went live, but it was like weirdly childish sounding and really off putting in my opinion. Kinda whack coming from them.


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 12, 2020)

Billybob said:


> I'm struggling with all the hating on the Northrup's. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I think they make it clear that they are not criticizing the R5. They can't, they don't have it. Rather, they are throwing in a contrarian perspective by saying "wait until objective reviews get posted before getting too excited".
> 
> Isn't their advice the essence of prudent decision making? Instead of focusing on all the "wow's" for which there are many and the Canon marketing and ambassadors have highlighted, also make sure that you have vetted all the potential negatives before making a purchase decision. Never get too positive or too negative on an important purchasing decision.
> 
> ...


Like some others, I generally am OK with the Northrop's, especially their tutorial videos but in this instance, no matter how many times they said 'but we've not had one to test', it was mainly a negative and quite childish piece.

I totally understand your perspective on wanting as much info as possible and I don't think anyone is critical of that, it's just that this piece and quite a few of their previous reviews have mainly been negative about Canon, despite admitting to having several RP's in the studio. It all seems a little bizarre and inconsistent.


----------



## WriteLight (Jul 12, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> Lloyd Chambers is reporting focus stacking is on the R5 but not R6. First news I’ve heard about focus stacking on the new bodies.


There's a video of someone navigating through the R5 menus that show it. I believe it's in the R5 specifications shown on Canon's R5 site now as well.


----------



## mppix (Jul 12, 2020)

HenryL said:


> I get where you're coming from...but in regards to this particular video I disagree. Yes, they use the words that they are not criticizing, but the tone is definitely critical. It's not what they say, but how they say it, that turned me off anyway. I won't presume to speak for others.
> 
> The AA filter is said to be the same/use the same technology as the one on the 1DX MIII, and Canon claims the R5 can out resolve the 5DsR. I also recall, but can't be certain which discussion it was in, that the claim is no rolling shutter in 12fps mechanical shutter mode, and the way the 20fps electronic shutter was mentioned in that context made it sound like there may be some in that mode. I think this as in the ProAV video linked earlier in this thread?
> 
> Anyway, nothing wrong with being cautious and waiting for more info to roll in before buying the R5. I have been without my 5DIV since April and I'm jonesing to have my FF back. I am confident the R5 will be a nice upgrade from the 5DIV for landscape, portrait, macro work. What I'm not sure of is can it also replace my 7DII for BIF? I think it will do nicely, won't mind the 20mp to 17mp drop with the crop mode it's close enough and the tracking should actually be better with the R5. Looking forward to finding out soon.



They are actually wrong on the AA filter. Any analog to digital conversion system must have a filter unless aliasing is acceptable (never really is). For cameras, you can either rely on the low-pass characteristics of lenses or add an optical low-pass filter. A low-pass filter can be designed to be barely noticeable.
Assuming that RF lenses are designed for high-resolutions (say >100MP), you need a LP filter especially on lower resolution sensors (say 20MP sensors).

Also, they seem grumpy that they have no relation with Canon and did not receive review units. They cast some doubt of some of the specs and then go on about the importance of independent reviewers, i.e. their business. To me this seemed almost desperate, I hope they are not about to go under but they could have approached this in a way more subtle way, for example


----------



## Graphic.Artifacts (Jul 12, 2020)

Hard to blame Polin for being a little defensive. Canon pretty much burned the reviewers. Never a good idea. I have no idea how the overheating issue will sort itself out but it’s pretty clear ithe launch is a PR disaster for Canon. Hope they can “right the ship” next week.


----------



## BakaBokeh (Jul 12, 2020)

korbar said:


> Man, I was just so disappointed with their presentation of info. I usually hold them in pretty high regards and look for Tony's input. I even went to their channel hoping they'd have posted something before that video went live, but it was like weirdly childish sounding and really off putting in my opinion. Kinda whack coming from them.


Yeah, the whining was very off-putting. They can be balanced on certain videos, but there are times where they are pandering to an audience. In this case, it felt like pandering to the Canon bashers. Like Canon has it's day and they felt a need to knock it off it's high horse. The whining tone was over the top, so I think this was a creative choice in executing the video. So I disliked it.

The most annoying part is the whining about the by-products of filming in 8K. Like, duh, it is going to take a lot more data and a more capable computer to edit. The fact that they can act surprised and miffed by the reality is incredible short-sightedness.

That's like someone buying an exotic car and then complaining about gas mileage or insurance premiums. lol, really?


----------



## korbar (Jul 12, 2020)

BakaBokeh said:


> Yeah, the whining was very off-putting. They can be balanced on certain videos, but there are times where they are pandering to an audience. In this case, it felt like pandering to the Canon bashers. Like Canon has it's day and they felt a need to knock it off it's high horse. The whining tone was over the top, so I think this was a creative choice in executing the video. So I disliked it.
> 
> The most annoying part is the whining about the by-products of filming in 8K. Like, duh, it is going to take a lot more data and a more capable computer to edit. The fact that they can act surprised and miffed by the reality is incredible short-sightedness.
> 
> That's like someone buying an exotic car and then complaining about gas mileage or insurance premiums. lol, really?


Super bizarre considering Tony tries to take so many high roads and use science to prove his point so often. But I guess when content is running dry you entertain in one way or another to get views. I still like the guy, but damn that was a whack video. ha


----------



## drama (Jul 12, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> Hi, just interested and don't want to interrupt your riveting discussion but what sort of camera bodies cost £4000 or £3000 20 years ago? I can only think of maybe 1 dx series or a Hasselblad which I may be wrong but I don't think they are classed as mainstream so probably wouldn't form a majority of the market?
> 
> I don't have an opinion on either side of your conversation but just interested that's all?



I wouldn't say a 5D or R5 were for the majority of the market either. I was talking professional cameras. So yes, the 1D would have been the obvious comparison point. Even the Eos 3 was 1500. The 5D mk2 was 2899 at launch in 2010. The 5D3 was 3400. The market has borne this price for over a decade. And canon glass has always been expensive.


----------



## mppix (Jul 12, 2020)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> Hard to blame Polin for being a little defensive. Canon pretty much burned the reviewers. Never a good idea. I have no idea how the overheating issue will sort itself out but it’s pretty clear ithe launch is a PR disaster for Canon. Hope they can “right the ship” next week.


Agreed, PR could be better right now. However, I'm not sure what they could have done different. They clearly put everything into the camera that would fit with quite a few industry firsts - they clearly want to promote that.
I'm still wondering if heat limits can be avoided by using external recorders.


----------



## Eclipsed (Jul 12, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> I know this is the current "hot"-topic, so I thought I'd give my 2 cents on it (that's about all it's worth):
> 
> I happen to be a "stills shooter", so the fuss about overheating doesn't really worry me either way.
> But the video I've seen (animal eye-AF etc) is so stunning that I'd probably get into video after all. But I wouldn't be in to it hot & heavy (no pun intended) and I don't think it would be an issue at all, and if it was then I'd just enjoy the great 4K which is probably more than I'd hope for anyway.
> ...



I'm a stills shooter, and preordered the R5. I'm grateful to the video shooters who are increasing the sales volume and thus reducing the cost of my 45MP 20FPS camera (that happens to have what they need for 8K). The video threshold undoubtedly pushed Canon to the level they did. Thanks.


----------



## scottkinfw (Jul 12, 2020)

I ordered my R5 with Canon BG-R10 Battery Grip,Canon Control Ring Mount Adapter EF-EOS R , and Canon LP-E6NH Lithium-Ion Battery . With that said, i need to humbly ask a stupid question, and I hope people can help. I have been trying to figure out which SD card to buy. I know to look for a Compatible with UHS-II V60 or V90 for video. There are a number of designations (sdxc, SDXC2, XQD, ETC.), plus many manufacturers. Since this is a higher MP camera that I will likely use for some video, these decisions are new for me.
Thanks all.

Scott


----------



## Gazwas (Jul 12, 2020)

I enjoy occasionally watching Tony and Chelsea and understand due to thier profile need to put out something about the R5 even though they don’t actually have anything to say yet. But I'm glad Canon has taken this approach. I detest how YouTubers hype up their content by examining things with a microscope with the single gole of finding that one issue that will blow up and ultimately boost their profile. These issues I might add, are normally ones the majority of the target market will never encounter.

I transitioned from Canon to a Sony A7rIII (A7rII before) but always continued to use and purchase Canon EF Glass. While I can't fault the sensor with its great stills IQ, its about the only thing I like about the camera and can’t wait to get back to Canon.

I hate adapting lenses and never got tempted by any of the Sony glass. SLOG is terrible to shoot and grade without an external monitor with LUT. Underexposing by too much, even for effect the resulting image became full of noise and as the files were 8bit they could fall apart very quickly. The menu system was a total messed up jumble and if I’m totally being honest, for stills I felt the lack of a decent AA filter could sometimes on certain subjects make them look way over sharpened and very digital looking (aliasing). Don't get me wrong, its gets the job done and very well but its not all rosey over in Sony land as most Tubers lead us to believe.


----------



## unfocused (Jul 12, 2020)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> ...but it’s pretty clear the launch is a PR disaster for Canon. Hope they can “right the ship” next week...



Oh yeah. A real PR disaster...hah hah hah. On what planet?


----------



## scottkinfw (Jul 12, 2020)

pmjm said:


> I'm not the person you were replying to, but my biggest worry is overheating at 8K/24p/IPB when shooting talking-head stuff or interviews, which can often go an hour or more. I'm used to having to pause to reset the recording after 30 minutes or change a memory card, but now we're talking 30 minutes of downtime between shots.
> 
> The way I'm justifying the purchase to myself is by remembering that the camera shoots 4K/24 with better IQ/AF and a leaner codec than my 1DX2 or 5D4 and the ability to shoot 8K or 4K/120p is a bonus.


Not to be rude, but if you are going an hour or more, this likely is the wrong tool for you unless you want to buy two or three. However, it looks like a great camera, and maybe if you want it, just get it and you don't have to justify it to yourself or anyone else. I don't "need" one, but I gave my camera bag a gift!


----------



## scottkinfw (Jul 12, 2020)

unfocused said:


> Oh yeah. A real PR disaster...hah hah hah. On what planet?


I guess I'll cancel my order then.


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Jul 12, 2020)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> Hard to blame Polin for being a little defensive. Canon pretty much burned the reviewers. Never a good idea. I have no idea how the overheating issue will sort itself out but it’s pretty clear ithe launch is a PR disaster for Canon. Hope they can “right the ship” next week.


This "overheating Issue" is getting tiresome.

The Camera is not overheating, it appears to be activating it's thermal protection protocols and warning the user to stop recording or let the camera cool off. If the user chooses to ignore the thermal protection warning then the Camera will shut off to protect itself. This is a feature of the system and appears to have been well tested as there are stated limits included in what I assume is the manual.

If the cameras are cooking themselves without a user facing warning or protection that in my mind is an overheat. If the system is randomly shutting off due to heat that is an overheat.

I choose to assume that Canon being historically careful about the quality and MTBF on their systems the protection protocols are aggressive to ensure the heat soaking of the system is well below the component damaging limits.

In my day job at Avigilon we test Cameras all the time in Thermotron chambers and I have seen my fair share of platforms that do not trigger thermal protection (mostly hikvision) and just cook @60 degrees Celsius.

IMO this has been just way overblown


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 12, 2020)

drama said:


> OK, then you're still wrong. It's a commonly overstated stat. DSLR (or equivalent - your chosen acronym for mirrorless cameras) sales have dipped slightly, but in comparison to the largest part of the camera market, which was fixed lens cameras, remained relatively stable. Source here: https://www.statista.com/chart/5782/digital-camera-shipments/
> 
> And for the third time, people were paying £4000 for bodies and £3000 for lenses twenty years ago. Given inflation, that's just not a valid reason for why. I'd agree that there's a sliver of the DSLR market who went off with their iphones happily, which might account for a slight dip, but nowhere near the level you've suggested.



Most of the sales reduction for ILCs was in the entry level and lower enthusiast level cameras. The premium tier cameras have always been smaller volume, though the demise of newspapers, magazines, and staff photographer positions at those and other media companies has affected sales of "flagship" models.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 12, 2020)

Chz said:


> My point is they wouldn’t need to throw in incentives such as the jacket if the RRP is inline within the price point of the 5D line.



It's called "Marketing"


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 12, 2020)

Chz said:


> Or they knew that they wouldn’t get the preorder numbers and needs a bit of incentives to win over those who may be on the fence.



Or someone in marketing felt the need to do something to justify the existence of their position and continuing employment?


----------



## unfocused (Jul 12, 2020)

scottkinfw said:


> I ordered my R5 with Canon BG-R10 Battery Grip,Canon Control Ring Mount Adapter EF-EOS R , and Canon LP-E6NH Lithium-Ion Battery . With that said, i need to humbly ask a stupid question, and I hope people can help. I have been trying to figure out which SD card to buy. I know to look for a Compatible with UHS-II V60 or V90 for video. There are a number of designations (sdxc, SDXC2, XQD, ETC.), plus many manufacturers. Since this is a higher MP camera that I will likely use for some video, these decisions are new for me.
> Thanks all.
> 
> Scott


I'm no expert, but I think for SD you will be fine with any brand name UHS-II card. Ordinarily I only buy Lexar, ProGrade or SanDisk. However, in the last year I've had two Lexar SD II cards fail and my wife has had one fail. I'm not sure the reconstituted Lexar is the same quality as the old company and I'm pretty much switching to all ProGrade or SanDisk. The R5 is backwards compatible with UHS-1, but it will be slower. I believe XQD is a different, non-compatible format.

For the other slot, you need a CFExpress Card.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 12, 2020)

Chz said:


> I certainly won’t give them free promotion by wearing the R5 jacket if I have one. I never use their camera straps.
> 
> The RRP for the R5 in Australia is A$7099. Some local retailers already dropped it to around A$6500, and includes a lucky strap and battery.



You're probably one of those who put tape over the logo on the top front of the camera, aren't you? Because you think you're such an influential photographer and all that they should pay you to use their gear?


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 12, 2020)

unfocused said:


> I'm no expert, but I think for SD you will be fine with any brand name UHS-II card. Ordinarily I only buy Lexar, ProGrade or SanDisk. However, in the last year I've had two Lexar SD II cards fail and my wife has had one fail. I'm not sure the reconstituted Lexar is the same quality as the old company and I'm pretty much switching to all ProGrade or SanDisk. The R5 is backwards compatible with UHS-1, but it will be slower. I believe XQD is a different, non-compatible format.
> 
> For the other slot, you need a CFExpress Card.



ProGrade _is_ the continuation of Lexar.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 12, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> I presume you are from down under? I'm like you, apart from the Canon straps being no good for shoulder carrying and not long enough to do cross body, I just replace with a Peak Design slide which is far more comfortable, practical and durable, plus doesn't shout to everyone 'look what camera I've got'. Hate that
> 
> interesting that prices have dropped before the Camera is even released, that's a little weird and not sure what it says about the market or perceived demand for the product?



Like wearing a camera on a cross body strap doesn't scream "Photographer with expensive camera(s)?"


----------



## BeenThere (Jul 12, 2020)

scottkinfw said:


> Not to be rude, but if you are going an hour or more, this likely is the wrong tool for you unless you want to buy two or three. However, it looks like a great camera, and maybe if you want it, just get it and you don't have to justify it to yourself or anyone else. I don't "need" one, but I gave my camera bag a gift!


And, who shoots interviews in 8k?


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## Michael Clark (Jul 12, 2020)

Chz said:


> Yes I am in Melbourne. I have been using the BlackRapid strap and hands traps from SpiderPro. I also have the Peakdesign Capture.
> 
> I believe the RRP in Australia is too high hence preorders are lower than what Canon Australia have predicted. Hence the local retailers are dropping the RRP.



Nothing screams, "Presumptuous photographer who likes to taunt overpriced branding" like anyone wearing a Black Rapid strap with the bright yellow "BR" logo prominently displayed on the upper left chest of the wearer.


----------



## unfocused (Jul 12, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> ProGrade _is_ the continuation of Lexar.


Not quite.

ProGrade was founded by former executives of Lexar, but it is not the same company. https://progradedigital.com/about/


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 12, 2020)

Kit. said:


> ...with electronic shutter.
> 
> The DR with mechanical shutter is higher, but only at ISOs 100 up to 400. Further up in ISO, the DR is limited by photon count of incoming light.



It's actually limited by the full well capacity of the sensels divided by the amplification factor of each "ISO" setting.


----------



## BakaBokeh (Jul 12, 2020)

BeenThere said:


> And, who shoots interviews in 8k?


It's for the dramatic part of the interview where you can zoom in. 

Please don't shoot interviews in 8K. I do not want to see the individual hairs on a persons mole.


----------



## zim (Jul 12, 2020)

Ramage said:


> This "overheating Issue" is getting tiresome.
> 
> The Camera is not overheating, it appears to be activating it's thermal protection protocols and warning the user to stop recording or let the camera cool off. If the user chooses to ignore the thermal protection warning then the Camera will shut off to protect itself. This is a feature of the system and appears to have well been tested as there are stated limits included in what I assume is the manual.
> 
> ...


Let's face it as sure as eggs are eggs there are two things that always happen when Canon release a new camera 1. Their example pics are shit. 2. The internet has to find it's Achilles heal something.... Anything.... Please God let me be the one that finds the fatal flaw..,... Please let me be the people's hero...


----------



## Trinitytrue (Jul 12, 2020)

Gazwas said:


> I enjoy occasionally watching Tony and Chelsea and understand due to thier profile need to put out something about the R5 even though they don’t actually have anything to say yet. But I'm glad Canon has taken this approach. I detest how YouTubers hype up their content by examining things with a microscope with the single gole of finding that one issue that will blow up and ultimately boost their profile. These issues I might add, are normally ones the majority of the target market will never encounter.
> 
> I transitioned from Canon to a Sony A7rIII (A7rII before) but always continued to use and purchase Canon EF Glass. While I can't fault the sensor with its great stills IQ, its about the only thing I like about the camera and can’t wait to get back to Canon.
> 
> I hate adapting lenses and never got tempted by any of the Sony glass. SLOG is terrible to shoot and grade without an external monitor with LUT. Underexposing by too much, even for effect the resulting image became full of noise and as the files were 8bit they could fall apart very quickly. The menu system was a total messed up jumble and if I’m totally being honest, for stills I felt the lack of a decent AA filter could sometimes on certain subjects make them look way over sharpened and very digital looking (aliasing). Don't get me wrong, its gets the job done and very well but its not all rosey over in Sony land as most Tubers lead us to believe.


U use log/hlg assist on camera right?


----------



## usern4cr (Jul 12, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> Lloyd Chambers is reporting focus stacking is on the R5 but not R6. First news I’ve heard about focus stacking on the new bodies.


If you hear of R5 focus bracketing details, I'd like to know if they allow a +/- focus bracket from the current focus position (that's the way I want to use it). That would be a different option from setting your focus position to the closest focus used in the stack (that's the way I don't like at all, but some cameras only offer this option).


----------



## navastronia (Jul 12, 2020)

BeenThere said:


> And, who shoots . . . 8k?



fixed it


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## Michael Clark (Jul 12, 2020)

Ramage said:


> Customer - "I'm just not sure I want to spend 6K on a new Camera"
> 
> Sales Person - "It comes with a free jacket if you order now!!"
> 
> ...



You guys get free ink pens? I'm jealous!

With the the first time we join Gold or above we get a one time camera strap with the pad from the Op/Tech Utility Strap - 3/8" with a CPS logo in the center and two Canon logos on each end of the pad instead of the Op/Tech logo. The detachable ends are like the ones that come with the OP/TECH Pro Loop Strap. Each membership number only gets one for life, though, if they even still do that. I got mine over a decade ago. I actually use it occasionally when I only want to carry a single camera on a single shoulder. It stays on one shoulder well without having to wear it cross-body or over the neck. Since I already have OP/TECH connectors on most of my cameras for my Double Sling which I've modified significantly from the standard supplied setup, I just use the quick-detach connectors to swap out the pad.

I have also received a couple of small lapel pin/tie tack type things with the CPS logo, but it's been a long while since they sent those out here in the U.S. They don't even send out a new plastic membership card each time you renew any more. They claim it's to save the planet, but they still overnight you blank repair forms and "Rush" labels via FedEx! (or maybe it's 2nd Day Air?)


----------



## highdesertmesa (Jul 12, 2020)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> Hard to blame Polin for being a little defensive. Canon pretty much burned the reviewers. Never a good idea. I have no idea how the overheating issue will sort itself out but it’s pretty clear ithe launch is a PR disaster for Canon. Hope they can “right the ship” next week.



I think that's mischaracterizing what happened. It's not a "PR disaster" to have the recording limits clearly written out in the manual, and to let Peter McKinnon do a sponsored video with the R5 and not have a problem with him talking about the thermal issues after 15-20 min of 4K/120. I mean the guy only has a billion YouTube subscribers, so how is that Canon not telling us what's what? And it seems logical to think no one would have expected to shoot long segments of 8K anyway. Unless you're running a high-end pro studio with a room full of storage servers, who is going to want hours of 8K at 1TB per hour? That's nuts. If you have room to store that, you have the budget for a C300III.

This whole thing is just crazy to me. If Canon had delivered the camera with 4K/30 with no thermal limits, then offered 4K/60, 4K/120 and 8K RAW for a paid upgrade – even knowing it would be thermal-limited, people would have bought the ever-loving sh!t out of that! But instead Canon includes it! Ingrates!!


----------



## Richard Anthony (Jul 12, 2020)

So the real world reviews are starting and this is from a Sony shooter


----------



## Besisika (Jul 12, 2020)

Newbie question; what is the advantage (if any) of shooting crop mode in photo compared to cropping in post, when using an EF (of RF) lense? I can't seem to find straight answer looking around. I think the EOS-R has the option as well, but given the 45MP of the R5 the remaining crop might still have enough resolution. Let me know.


----------



## Graphic.Artifacts (Jul 12, 2020)

unfocused said:


> Oh yeah. A real PR disaster...hah hah hah. On what planet?


Thanks again for more of your brilliant analysis. I can see you put a lot of thought into it.


----------



## highdesertmesa (Jul 13, 2020)

Richard Anthony said:


> So the real world reviews are starting and this is from a Sony shooter



2nd report of ISO being usable up to 12K. Can't wait to see stills samples.


----------



## Richard Anthony (Jul 13, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> 2nd report of ISO being usable up to 12K. Can't wait to see stills samples.


Yes hopefully real reviews and samples should start rolling in this week .


----------



## dwarven (Jul 13, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> You realize a 135/1.4 would need only a slightly smaller front element diameter than a 300/2.8? Are you prepared to pay $8K for that 135/1.4? The RF 135mm L _might_ be f/1.8, but it will not be f/1.4. That's fantasyland.



It would definitely be a wild focal length for f/1.4, but Canon has been making some wild lenses lately. I wouldn't put it past them to make a new chase lens to surpass the 85mm f/1.4 or f/1.2 for portrait photographers. Sports and wildlife photographers have been treated to insane, fast lenses for awhile now. Here's a 135mm f1.4 shot, and it looks incredible.


----------



## Graphic.Artifacts (Jul 13, 2020)

Ramage said:


> This "overheating Issue" is getting tiresome.
> 
> The Camera is not overheating, it appears to be activating it's thermal protection protocols and warning the user to stop recording or let the camera cool off. If the user chooses to ignore the thermal protection warning then the Camera will shut off to protect itself. This is a feature of the system and appears to have been well tested as there are stated limits included in what I assume is the manual.
> 
> ...


Yes I’m sure your right. When the director asks why his set is shut down and he can’t shoot you can tell him that everything is fine because the camera shut down before it overheated. Honestly, I have no idea what the extent of the problem is but pretending there isn’t a problem rarely helps IME.


----------



## highdesertmesa (Jul 13, 2020)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> Yes I’m sure your right. When the director asks why his set is shut down and he can’t shoot you can tell him that everything is fine because the camera shut down before it overheated. Honestly, I have no idea what the extent of the problem is but pretending there isn’t a problem rarely helps IME.



Did you watch one of the other videos posted earlier. Guy was one of the people shooting on pro sets. He says even for RED they have 3-4 units lined up to shoot with because they crap out on them. He said if it's being used on a pro set, there would be several of them to work around the thermal time limits. I don't think any of us should pretend we know what it's like on a set unless we've had that experience.

The higher end settings have time-based thermal limits. Can that be an issue in some situations? Perhaps. But is that a "problem" in the way you're portraying? I don't think so, personally.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jul 13, 2020)

Richard Anthony said:


> So the real world reviews are starting



May be a bit better, but for high ISO he clearly uses the jpegs, we're yet to see the raw files to analyse the DR and high ISO.


----------



## Richard Anthony (Jul 13, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> May be a bit better, but for high ISO he clearly uses the jpegs, we're yet to see the raw files to analyse the DR and high ISO.


I should imagine we will see all this in the week as more reviews roll out .


----------



## Graphic.Artifacts (Jul 13, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> Did you watch one of the other videos posted earlier. Guy was one of the people shooting on pro sets. He says even for RED they have 3-4 units lined up to shoot with because they crap out on them. He said if it's being used on a pro set, there would be several of them to work around the thermal time limits. I don't think any of us should pretend we know what it's like on a set unless we've had that experience.
> 
> The higher end settings have time-based thermal limits. Can that be an issue in some situations? Perhaps. But is that a "problem" in the way you're portraying? I don't think so, personally.


I’m not portraying anything. I was speakiing to the spectacle of Canon’s treasured new camera depicted as going up in flames in dozens of YouTube videos. If you think that’s helpful to Canon’s interests I don’t know what else to say. Find another straw man


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Jul 13, 2020)

R6 Video.

Hmm R6 Overheating at 4K 50fps after about 29 mins. Not a great test cause he did not have a big enough card to shoot for the full 30mins

Really want to see 4K 24P on both Cameras cause thats my timeline of choice.


----------



## davidhfe (Jul 13, 2020)

zim said:


> Let's face it as sure as eggs are eggs there are two things that always happen when Canon release a new camera 1. Their example pics are shit. 2. The internet has to find it's Achilles heal something.... Anything.... Please God let me be the one that finds the fatal flaw..,... Please let me be the people's hero...



Never been happier that I am not deep into video work. 2-3x a year somebody asks me to pull something together on my 5D4. I use it's "unworkable" crop, it's "unworkable" codec, and the only thing anyone ever says about the image is "Wow, that's super crisp! That looks amazing!" I'm a hobbyist, so it's not like my demands are super high, but the R5 is the first camera (well, certainly first from canon) that's giving me basically everything I want (resolution, speed, AF, silent shooting), with a ton of situational extras, some that have compromises. All for the low price of $3800 and a slice of some humble pie for when I made fun of Sony 4 years ago.

Even though a lot of the YouTube personalities are ostensibly working photographers, I get the feeling they're thinking about their personal needs as vloggers rather than the needs of their audience. I have heard zero people on YouTube (minus the explorers, of course) who are talking about what a phenomenal upgrade for stills this is, and the flexibility it affords an occasional video shooter. Instead, it's a never ending stream of "by video guys for video guys" vloggers very conveniently forgetting canon makes an entire cinema line just for the needs of video pros. You don't see me bitching about the stills performance of an URSA on the Black Magic Design forums. I'm tired of hearing about the S1H (poor af, slower stills, lower resolution, larger, heavier, *more expensive* and requires active cooling!) and the mythical A7S3 by thirsty YT stars who think they're gonna shoot their Netflix-produced masterpiece on a single $2500 camera.

If I have to hear the phrase "cripple hammer" one more time…

/rant


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## Jonathan Thill (Jul 13, 2020)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> Yes I’m sure your right. When the director asks why his set is shut down and he can’t shoot you can tell him that everything is fine because the camera shut down before it overheated. Honestly, I have no idea what the extent of the problem is but pretending there isn’t a problem rarely helps IME.


If I told the Director I just had one camera I would already be fired. Come on...

Please define Problem


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## Richard Anthony (Jul 13, 2020)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> I’m not portraying anything. I was speakiing to the spectacle of Canon’s treasured new camera depicted as going up in flames in dozens of YouTube videos. If you think that’s helpful to Canon’s interests I don’t know what else to say. Find another straw man


It might have been depicted as going up in flames on You Tube videos , but this has all been by people who have never put their hands on one , until people start using it in the real world its all BS .


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## CvH (Jul 13, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> You're probably one of those who put tape over the logo on the top front of the camera, aren't you? Because you think you're such an influential photographer and all that they should pay you to use their gear?



Nope. I’ve found their straps are not comfortable hence I have the SportRapid strap and SpiderProd hand strap.


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## davidhfe (Jul 13, 2020)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> Yes I’m sure your right. When the director asks why his set is shut down and he can’t shoot you can tell him that everything is fine because the camera shut down before it overheated. Honestly, I have no idea what the extent of the problem is but pretending there isn’t a problem rarely helps IME.



Who is going to be using this "on set" as an *A CAM*? Am I way off base here? Who is shooting on set, with a director, etc on a single $3800 camera body? Is studio city really filled up with DPs who are like "yeah, gimme that S1H for my Netflix shoot!" You use the video features on a camera like this situationally. I'm sorry Canon didn't give the world a R5c, and they oversold it to a degree. (And before bashing 'canon marketing' again lets not forget their entire launch plan got thrown out the window by a global pandemic)

I'm being pretty defensive here, but the above question is an honest one: Am I just way off base about the realities of modern video production?


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## privatebydesign (Jul 13, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> Who is going to be using this "on set" as an *A CAM*? Am I way off base here? Who is shooting on set, with a director, etc on a single $3800 camera body? Is studio city really filled up with DPs who are like "yeah, gimme that S1H for my Netflix shoot!"
> 
> You use the video features on a camera like this situationally. I'm sorry Canon didn't give the world a R5c, and they oversold it to a degree. (And before bashing 'canon marketing' again lets not forget their entire launch plan got thrown out the window by a global pandemic)


Exactly. And that point was made in Armando’s video very well.


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## Graphic.Artifacts (Jul 13, 2020)

Ramage said:


> If I told the Director I just had one camera I would already be fired. Come on...
> 
> Please define Problem


Define the problem? Have you ever been involved in a product launch? If not I can assure you that videos depicting your product going up in flames are not desirable. Making important influencers pissed of at you; also not desirable. Do I really need to explain this to you. It seems pretty basic. 
It doesn’t matter right now what the reality is. By the time we know that too many people will already have made up their minds. Obviously you’ve made up yours so that’s all I have to say on it. Feel free to have the last word.


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## David - Sydney (Jul 13, 2020)

Eclipsed said:


> The simple solution is more than one body, and a chiller for the one that's cooling down. Like swapping out batteries instead of shutting down waiting for your only battery to recharge. Even a little forced air tent, powered by a camera battery, would reduce recovery time.


Having 2 cameras and underwater housings was the only solution if you wanted more than 36 shots underwater in one dive!


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## CvH (Jul 13, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Nothing screams, "Presumptuous photographer who likes to taunt overpriced branding" like anyone wearing a Black Rapid strap with the bright yellow "BR" logo prominently displayed on the upper left chest of the wearer.



I am a practical person. I like Canon gears but I like my wallet too. 

Let’s flip the coin, how do you feel if the R5 price in your country is $1000 more than other overseas markets? Will you happily get one knowingly the price isn’t parity against global markets?


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## davidhfe (Jul 13, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Exactly. And that point was made in Armando’s video very well.



Gonna have to go watch that. He sounds like one of the few keeping perspective. I've been watching the videos of the dang thing tracking the eyeball of a bird with a *friggin f/11 lens* over and over.


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## korbar (Jul 13, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> Who is going to be using this "on set" as an *A CAM*? Am I way off base here? Who is shooting on set, with a director, etc on a single $3800 camera body? Is studio city really filled up with DPs who are like "yeah, gimme that S1H for my Netflix shoot!" You use the video features on a camera like this situationally. I'm sorry Canon didn't give the world a R5c, and they oversold it to a degree. (And before bashing 'canon marketing' again lets not forget their entire launch plan got thrown out the window by a global pandemic)
> 
> I'm being pretty defensive here, but the above question is an honest one: Am I just way off base about the realities of modern video production?


No one. No one is trying to use this as an 8K A Cam, if that was their hope they obviously aren't serious about video work. I honestly don't even think they oversold it. If this is basically a 5D5 but Mirrorless I'm more than happy.
There are far more limitations that all mirrorless cameras have as an A cam on any real set. If I was doing long form interviews or anything chances are I'd still be grabbing GH5's or C200s if I wanted something like that. I'd sooner upscale 4K than ever shoot a long interview in 8K. 

The 8K options, especially raw make for a super compelling option for people getting into visual effects. You're getting a lot of resolution and latitude in a small package and that's INCREDIBLE for doing comps and such. That's one example of a killer use for this 8K. 

And you definitely aren't doing 20+ minute single cut comps at 8K with visual effects. 

This is also a great option for a special case camera on a set. Stunts, interior of stunt cars, places where the camera could potentially be wasted. Why not chuck a tiny camera capable of getting a couple takes in 8K raw on a car you're going to launch across a river or something? hahaha

I'll keep saying it. Canon knocked out just about every gottdang ask that everyone had for a "pro" stills mirrorless body and gave us some killer options at the upper end of video. The camera is gonna rule. It's solid. 
And anyone still comparing it to an A7SIII is pointless too, that's a dedicated video camera with(likely) a 12MP sensor. Who cares, apples and oranges.


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## mppix (Jul 13, 2020)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> Yes I’m sure your right. When the director asks why his set is shut down and he can’t shoot you can tell him that everything is fine because the camera shut down before it overheated. Honestly, I have no idea what the extent of the problem is but pretending there isn’t a problem rarely helps IME.


You have figured it all out.

If your set has a director, lighting ataff etc, likely actors, and shoots 8K or 4K120 video (with related production costs) this is exactly the video camera for you (and don't forget to bring only one and shoot internally).


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## digigal (Jul 13, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> If you hear of R5 focus bracketing details, I'd like to know if they allow a +/- focus bracket from the current focus position (that's the way I want to use it). That would be a different option from setting your focus position to the closest focus used in the stack (that's the way I don't like at all, but some cameras only offer this option).


Wim Ary at wimary.com goes through all the settings on menu on the back of the R5 with suggestions for the settings and shows that the Focus Bracketing Option is listed at the bottom at # 5 on the Camera Icon (the 7th one down). He discusses the options but I've never used focus stacking. You might go to his web site and check it out under the Tips and Tricks section for the R5
Catherine


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## David - Sydney (Jul 13, 2020)

mpmark said:


> I expected a beefy price in CAD but for me to walk out the door with one they'll ask for $6101 after taxes in Canada! Didnt think i'd be blowing 6k though. Are they making up for their losses of Covid? This is getting rediculously expensive to stay in the 5-line camera family, I've owned all from the very first 5D, and each release the price goes up substantially. The only way you'll get one at a better price is wait a year or so, but since the 5Div being release in 2016 the wait is long overdue so this is a tough decision. Now I have to justify 6k is worth blowing for a camera.


Clearly the R5 is above the "regular" 5 series. Currently the R5 is 70% more expensive than the 5Div and 80% if you include the currently bundled AUD250 gift card. I get that the 5Div is already 4 years old but it has been keeping its price high even though the R has been dropping a lot.


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## Jonathan Thill (Jul 13, 2020)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> Define the problem? Have you ever been involved in a product launch? If not I can assure you that videos depicting your product going up in flames are not desirable. Making important influencers pissed of at you; also not desirable. Do I really need to explain this to you. It seems pretty basic.
> It doesn’t matter right now what the reality is. By the time we know that too many people will already have made up their minds. Obviously you’ve made up yours so that’s all I have to say on it. *Feel free to have the last word.*



Thanks for allowing me to have my own opinion, so gracious of you. There very well maybe an issue with heat and long record times with higher frame-rates and higher resolutions, but as long as you the user are aware of that you can work around it or ensure you have the right tool for the job.

It appears to me that Canon is being transparent about the "issue". You are acting like you have uncovered some big corporate secret.


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## mppix (Jul 13, 2020)

korbar said:


> No one. No one is trying to use this as an 8K A Cam, if that was their hope they obviously aren't serious about video work. I honestly don't even think they oversold it. If this is basically a 5D5 but Mirrorless I'm more than happy.
> There are far more limitations that all mirrorless cameras have as an A cam on any real set. If I was doing long form interviews or anything chances are I'd still be grabbing GH5's or C200s if I wanted something like that. I'd sooner upscale 4K than ever shoot a long interview in 8K.
> 
> The 8K options, especially raw make for a super compelling option for people getting into visual effects. You're getting a lot of resolution and latitude in a small package and that's INCREDIBLE for doing comps and such. That's one example of a killer use for this 8K.
> ...


Can you explain what limitations that you see?
I think these cameras especially the R6 can compete with the Sony A7S3. In particular, we still have to see if Sony is able to put 4K60 in the A7S3. If they do, they may neet fans or the camera may also overheat.


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## Kit. (Jul 13, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> It's actually limited by the full well capacity of the sensels divided by the amplification factor of each "ISO" setting.


It's just the technical details of the same physical limit.


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## WriteLight (Jul 13, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> You guys get free ink pens? I'm jealous!
> 
> With the the first time we join Gold or above we get a one time camera strap with the pad from the Op/Tech Utility Strap - 3/8" with a CPS logo in the center and two Canon logos on each end of the pad instead of the Op/Tech logo. The detachable ends are like the ones that come with the OP/TECH Pro Loop Strap. Each membership number only gets one for life, though, if they even still do that.
> 
> I have also received a couple of small lapel pin/tie tack type things with the CPS logo, but it's been a long while since they sent those out here in the U.S. They don't even send out a new plastic membership card each time you renew any more. They claim it's to save the planet, but they still overnight you blank repair forms and "Rush" labels via FedEx! (or maybe it's 2nd Day Air?)


They still list all those items as a perk of gold membership. I just became eligible with the purchase of an RF 24-105 f/4 L and should be on my way to platinum when my R5 arrives.


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## tpatana (Jul 13, 2020)

If someone's R5 is overheating during video, feel free to ship it to me. I'm happy to use it anyway, I can even pay the shipping costs.


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## korbar (Jul 13, 2020)

mppix said:


> Can you explain what limitations that you see?
> I think these cameras especially the R6 can compete with the Sony A7S3. In particular, we still have to see if Sony is able to put 4K60 in the A7S3. If they do, they may neet fans or the camera may also overheat.


On a film set there are a lot of things that a non-dedicated video camera lack that people require, set depending. 
Timecode sync, I/O for SDI XLR, etc. What I'm trying to get at is that proper film sets aren't going to roll up with a Canon R5 and no other cameras and use it as an A cam. Key here is proper film sets. 

As for the R5 vs the A7SIII, they aren't even trying to compete in the same class. The R5 is a killer hybrid stills and video camera where the A7SIII is a video camera that has stills capability. With all the people complaining about the R6 only having 20MP, why are people even throwing the A7SIII into R5 conversation? You know? These are different tools with different focuses.
The A7SIII is going to be a wonderful and incredible camera and a lot of people are going to buy it. 

I work primarily in video, for most of the work I do Autofocus isn't important so frankly I still absolutely love using my GH5 and even my GH4. These handle long conversations and things amazing and I still have the 150Mbps 10 bit codec if I need to run for like 2 hours at a time. 

I sold my EOS R, which I got to be a stills camera with decent video functions when I needed it, to get the R5 because it's going to do exactly what I need it to. It's going to be a stellar professional stills camera with some really useful video functions I will use often and enjoy having at my disposal. 
I have some solid EF glass that I still love, such as the 70-200mm f2.8L IS II and use it regularly on my GH4 and GH5 and while I started photo and video back in the day on the 7DMKI, which I still have, I have always enjoyed Canon cameras for stills and often have rented them or used them for work. So the R5 is a no brainer for a camera that should last me many years, be capable of decent video projects, and handle 90% of my stills work I need. 
If I'm shooting for someone on a set, we often will rent a C200, Ursa Mini 4.6K, or similar. I also really enjoy the EVA-1 and S1H for dedicated video cameras.
I just don't know who these people are and what they actually do when they keep focusing on just this 8K and 4K/120 spec... It's already so annoying to read. 

This was long-winded, I apologize. haha


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## esglord (Jul 13, 2020)

Less, than 3 years ago, didn't you need to shell out $30k for a camera that could shoot 8k 30fps? Now, a $3,900 camera that will do that for ~20 minute increments isn't enough to satisfy. Go figure.


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## David - Sydney (Jul 13, 2020)

mppix said:


> It has 180MP and shoots 16K/7.5fps RAW video


It will be the R5 firmware upgrade for pixel shift using IBIS for 4x or 8x shots @ 20fps


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## SteveC (Jul 13, 2020)

Eclipsed said:


> The simple solution is more than one body, and a chiller for the one that's cooling down. Like swapping out batteries instead of shutting down waiting for your only battery to recharge. Even a little forced air tent, powered by a camera battery, would reduce recovery time.



Would it be useful or dangerous to pop the camera into a container with some dry ice?


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## vjlex (Jul 13, 2020)

I'm not a video shooter, but I am slightly curious as to why 8K RAW is only internal. Is it a hardware limitation of the implemented HDMI protocol or perhaps a limitation imposed to protect cinema camera lines? Does external recording mitigate heat generation in the body?


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## Richard Anthony (Jul 13, 2020)

Over heating tests


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## mppix (Jul 13, 2020)

korbar said:


> On a film set there are a lot of things that a non-dedicated video camera lack that people require, set depending.
> Timecode sync, I/O for SDI XLR, etc. What I'm trying to get at is that proper film sets aren't going to roll up with a Canon R5 and no other cameras and use it as an A cam. Key here is proper film sets.
> 
> As for the R5 vs the A7SIII, they aren't even trying to compete in the same class. The R5 is a killer hybrid stills and video camera where the A7SIII is a video camera that has stills capability. With all the people complaining about the R6 only having 20MP, why are people even throwing the A7SIII into R5 conversation? You know? These are different tools with different focuses.
> ...



Thanks. Agreed, nobody should really think that this is an A cam for Hollywood or 8K television.
However this gets very interesting IF the add a fan in a C-line body - decent competition for RED...


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## David - Sydney (Jul 13, 2020)

navastronia said:


> Honestly, as someone who posts here a lot, I have no problem calling a spade a spade - if the camera overheats, it overheats. Let's discuss it. However, as it stands, there's no evidence that this happens often in use, given that no one has had extensive time to shoot with the camera at all, and it won't even be available for several weeks.
> 
> Let's talk about overheating once there's something to talk about, you know?


Although I am not likely to use 8K video underwater (4k60 maybe), I wonder about the heating issue when in an underwater housing that is a partial vacuum (I generally pump out to .23bar (7" Hg) pressure. The water is generally coldish but with no thermal air to conduct... Will be interesting to try. Even if we get to that thermal point, can we still use it for stills?


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## highdesertmesa (Jul 13, 2020)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> I’m not portraying anything. I was speakiing to the spectacle of Canon’s treasured new camera depicted as going up in flames in dozens of YouTube videos. If you think that’s helpful to Canon’s interests I don’t know what else to say. Find another straw man



Canon can’t prevent stupid.


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## korbar (Jul 13, 2020)

shunsai said:


> I'm not a video shooter, but I am slightly curious as to why 8K RAW is only internal. Is it a hardware limitation of the implemented HDMI protocol or perhaps a limitation imposed to protect cinema camera lines? Does external recording mitigate heat generation in the body?



As far as I know, through HDMI, you can't currently run an 8K signal. I think the next generation of HDMI should, but currently displays typically run multiple cables to achieve 8K, AFAIK. 



mppix said:


> Thanks. Agreed, nobody should really think that this is an A cam for Hollywood or 8K television.
> However this gets very interesting IF the add a fan in a C-line body - decent competition for RED...



Yeah, definitely. I'd love to see an eventual C200MKII with some of this technology sorted out more. I'd buy that camera so fast.


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## David - Sydney (Jul 13, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> Yeah, I see a 2TB as well, but I don't trust anything but SanDisk. I don't see anything over 512 from them at B&H.


We still don't have a list of qualified CFexpress cards for the R5 yet. From the 1DXiii list... only the 512GB Sandisk is qualified.


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## David - Sydney (Jul 13, 2020)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> The prospect of having to buy a new computer is what is holding me back from the R5!


I did budget for a new PC as well but the R5 price has stretched that budget so I am pushing out the new Mac a bit. It will be interesting to see if the next macbook pro 16" will be Intel for the last time or move to ARM. ARM appears to have much better speed tests... even in x86 emulation mode.


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## mppix (Jul 13, 2020)

shunsai said:


> I'm not a video shooter, but I am slightly curious as to why 8K RAW is only internal. Is it a hardware limitation of the implemented HDMI protocol or perhaps a limitation imposed to protect cinema camera lines? Does external recording mitigate heat generation in the body?


Do we know the HDMI out spec, yet?
HDMI 2.1 is capable of 8K streams. If the thermal limit is the encoding then a external recorder can help. However, if it is a thermal limit of the sensor, e.g. ADC, then little can be done.


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## navastronia (Jul 13, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Although I am not likely to use 8K video underwater (4k60 maybe), I wonder about the heating issue when in an underwater housing that is a partial vacuum (I generally pump out about 6-7bar). The water is generally coldish but with no thermal air to conduct... Will be interesting to try. Even if we get to that thermal point, can we still use it for stills?



Interesting point! I'm curious about this as well and hope that you share here, at CR, your experiences, whenever possible.


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## CvH (Jul 13, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Or someone in marketing felt the need to do something to justify the existence of their position and continuing employment?



Do you really believe that???


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## usern4cr (Jul 13, 2020)

digigal said:


> Wim Ary at wimary.com goes through all the settings on menu on the back of the R5 with suggestions for the settings and shows that the Focus Bracketing Option is listed at the bottom at # 5 on the Camera Icon (the 7th one down). He discusses the options but I've never used focus stacking. You might go to his web site and check it out under the Tips and Tricks section for the R5
> Catherine


Can you be more specific on the spelling to get to Wim Ary, please? I can't find it on the web as you mentioned.


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## SteveC (Jul 13, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> (I generally pump out about 6-7bar).



Hmm. Given atmospheric pressure is just about 1,013 mbar or 1.013 bar (at standard temperature and pressure), it seems to me you're describing an impossibility here. Did you mean mbar perchance?


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## highdesertmesa (Jul 13, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> We still don't have a list of qualified CFexpress cards for the R5 yet. From the 1DXiii list... only the 512GB Sandisk is qualified.



I can't remember which video I was watching, but I remember them saying the 512 was the only one approved for the R5, too. Wondering if they had access to the R5 qualified cards list or if they were just going off the 1DX3 list.


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## tpatana (Jul 13, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> I can't remember which video I was watching, but I remember them saying the 512 was the only one approved for the R5, too. Wondering if they had access to the R5 qualified cards list or if they were just going off the 1DX3 list.



I wonder what happens with those non-approved? Does it say "too slow, will not record", or does it get some frame drops or artifacts on the video?

I have couple off-brand (supposedly fast) CFexpress cards already, wondering if I should use them with R5 and how to test to make sure they don't fail when it matters.


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## unfocused (Jul 13, 2020)

Chz said:


> That is my point. If the preorders are really high and meet unit allocation then surely they don’t need to offer incentives to drive sales.


What incentives? 

Price Guarantee = _We aren't going to lower the price of the R5 until at least 2021, so we are offering you a guarantee that we won't do something that we aren't going to do._

Free Jacket = _We are giving you this jacket with our name on it, so that you can give us free advertising whenever you wear it. _


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## bytebuster (Jul 13, 2020)

What happened to the 70-200 f4? Are we gonna get it at some point this year ?


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## seasonascent (Jul 13, 2020)

I'm a wedding videographer and despite the apparent overheating issues, have put in for a preorder. Now while I obviously haven't tested the camera and can't know this for sure, I've already budgeted for ways to mitigate the heat issue. I've already got an atomos ninja v which I plan on using majority of the time, and when only recording to the SSD and not internally, the atomos will be doing all the heavy lifting with the processing. This also unlocks unlimited recording time. I'll also be using the battery grip so that the battery heat is removed from the body. These methods have been successful overheating solutions for all the former sony overheating issues and I expect them to work on R5/R6 as well. It also means I get some sweet downsampled 10 bit 422 prores files to work with 

The 4k 120 is a big perk, and I plan on using this in short bursts during location shots. Outside of that, all recording will be done externally 

Some will ask why I don't just spend the same amount on c200 or similar. Main reasoning is I also do landscape photography and sell some prints, so I'd probably be buying this anyway.


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## David - Sydney (Jul 13, 2020)

SteveC said:


> Hmm. Given atmospheric pressure is just about 1,013 mbar or 1.013 bar (at standard temperature and pressure), it seems to me you're describing an impossibility here. Did you mean mbar perchance?


Good point! The manual vacuum pump is not meant to be an accurate measure but I did misread it. It would be 7" Hg or 0.23Bar.
Ikelite Vacuum Pump
I will correct my post


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## CvH (Jul 13, 2020)

unfocused said:


> What incentives?
> 
> Price Guarantee = _We aren't going to lower the price of the R5 until at least 2021, so we are offering you a guarantee that we won't do something that we aren't going to do._
> 
> Free Jacket = _We are giving you this jacket with our name on it, so that you can give us free advertising whenever you wear it. _



I referred to the Australian market. the RRP is A$1000 higher than USA and that includes exchange rate and tax. 

Some local stores already dropped more than A$500 on their websites.

The incentive include free battery, limited strap (who care). I think some local stores also include a Sandisk Extreme Prod SDXC 64GB card.


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## 1D4 (Jul 13, 2020)

Not sure if it's been posted, but just noticed the expected availability date for the 100-500mm now reads October 1 on B&H's site. I was hoping for an early September date, but looks like we might not even get it in that month. Guess I'll have to be patient, but a 2 month wait between the R5 and getting the lens I desperately need will be rough 

Edit: Looks like Amazon has September 30th.


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## Quarkcharmed (Jul 13, 2020)

seasonascent said:


> Main reasoning is I also do landscape photography and sell some prints, so I'd probably be buying this anyway.



Especially considering this statement from Canon through DPR 
_"Canon says to expect a one-stop increase in DR versus the EOS R"_

If that's true, the R5 is on par with A7RIV (as the R is exactly 1 stop behind at the base ISO). Even if it's the same as the R/5DIV, I'm satisfied, but 1 stop better would be tremendous.
The lack of GPS hurts though, especially for landscape photography.


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## Jonathan Thill (Jul 13, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Especially considering this statement from Canon through DPR
> _"Canon says to expect a one-stop increase in DR versus the EOS R"_
> 
> If that's true, the R5 is on par with A7RIV (as the R is exactly 1 stop behind at the base ISO). Even if it's the same as the R/5DIV, I'm satisfied, but 1 stop better would be tremendous.
> The lack of GPS hurts though, especially for landscape photography.



Curious, other than the obvious what do you use the GPS cords for?


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## Quarkcharmed (Jul 13, 2020)

Ramage said:


> Curious, other than the obvious what do you use the GPS cords for?



In Lightroom, there's the map that shows locations where I shot my images, which is extremely useful when looking up images by locations, and also find locations by images.
Also useful when posting to social media, although I don't like to always include the exact locations of my images.

The above applies to landscape photography mostly.

I'm hoping the R5 will be able to get GPS from phone through bluetooth, but couldn't find any mention of that anywhere. Even if it works through BT, it's far from ideal.


----------



## FrenchFry (Jul 13, 2020)

Besisika said:


> Newbie question; what is the advantage (if any) of shooting crop mode in photo compared to cropping in post, when using an EF (of RF) lense? I can't seem to find straight answer looking around. I think the EOS-R has the option as well, but given the 45MP of the R5 the remaining crop might still have enough resolution. Let me know.


There are a few reasons to do this, depending on the type of photography you are doing. I use this feature in wildlife photography where I am reach-limited. If I know that I will be cropping to APSC or smaller in post anyway, then some advantages of using the crop mode in camera include :
- the image is magnified in the EVF, which makes it easier to see the subject, and increases confidence that accurate focus has been achieved. It can also be nice to see more accurately what the final composition will look like.
- cropped images take up less space, so more images fit on the same card. When shooting in large bursts, you may be able to take more images before the buffer fills (more of an issue for SD than CFExpress)
- the image that I upload to my computer is smaller. This means that I am not storing a bunch of pixels that I don't need anyway, and makes post-processing faster as the images load faster and I am not spending as much time cropping in post.

Having a high megapixel camera with the ability to crop is great as it is kind of like carrying around both a full frame and APSC camera in one. But all those megapixels add up and need to be stored somewhere. If you are 100% confident that you won't need them later, sometimes it makes sense to skip capturing then in the first place.

Additional note: I find it is helpful to add a shortcut to change this feature quickly. Sometimes your subject might come closer suddenly and then they may no longer fit nicely in the cropped frame.


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Jul 13, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> In Lightroom, there's the map that shows locations where I shot my images, which is extremely useful when looking up images by locations, and also find locations by images.
> Also useful when posting to social media, although I don't like to always include the exact locations of my images.
> 
> The above applies to landscape photography mostly.
> ...


Thanks I see the Map for my Drone shots in LR, was just curious of there was other uses.


----------



## SteveC (Jul 13, 2020)

1D4 said:


> Not sure if it's been posted, but just noticed the expected availability date for the 100-500mm now reads October 1 on B&H's site. I was hoping for an early September date, but looks like we might not even get it in that month. Guess I'll have to be patient, but a 2 month wait between the R5 and getting the lens I desperately need will be rough
> 
> Edit: Looks like Amazon has September 30th.



In the meantime you can get an extra body cap, punch a small hole in it, and pretend it's one of the new f/11 long lenses.


----------



## FrenchFry (Jul 13, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> Can you be more specific on the spelling to get to Wim Ary, please? I can't find it on the web as you mentioned.


I believe that this is the link the original poster was referring to (last name was missing the "s":








Canon EOS R5 advanced manual - Wim Arys


Canon EOS R5 advanced manual Introduction With 8K RAW videos, 45 megapixel photos, 8 stops image stabilization and a speed of 20 frames per second, the Canon EOS R5 is suitable for professional photo and videographers. For talented artist who want to specialize in any of these areas, the R5…




www.wimarys.com


----------



## Osama (Jul 13, 2020)

seasonascent said:


> I'm a wedding videographer and despite the apparent overheating issues, have put in for a preorder. Now while I obviously haven't tested the camera and can't know this for sure, I've already budgeted for ways to mitigate the heat issue. I've already got an atomos ninja v which I plan on using majority of the time, and when only recording to the SSD and not internally, the atomos will be doing all the heavy lifting with the processing. This also unlocks unlimited recording time. I'll also be using the battery grip so that the battery heat is removed from the body. These methods have been successful overheating solutions for all the former sony overheating issues and I expect them to work on R5/R6 as well. It also means I get some sweet downsampled 10 bit 422 prores files to work with
> 
> The 4k 120 is a big perk, and I plan on using this in short bursts during location shots. Outside of that, all recording will be done externally
> 
> Some will ask why I don't just spend the same amount on c200 or similar. Main reasoning is I also do landscape photography and sell some prints, so I'd probably be buying this anyway.



Having a Ninja V + 1TB SSD will be cheaper than buying a 1TB CFexpress card. Doubly so, if you already have the Ninja V.


----------



## koenkooi (Jul 13, 2020)

FrenchFry said:


> I believe that this is the link the original poster was referring to (last name was missing the "s":
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That suspiciously looks like Wim took the RP article and replaced 'RP' with 'R5', the images are even named "Canon-EOS-RP-menu-manual-17.jpg"!
The other clues are the movie resolution list and the high speed display setting "with the 5fps the R5 shoots with in High Speed Continious".


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 13, 2020)

Chz said:


> My point is they wouldn’t need to throw in incentives such as the jacket if the RRP is inline within the price point of the 5D line.


Pre-order cash up front sight-unseen is the general reason for pre-order freebies. I just wish that they were useful (spare battery, EF:RF adapter) rather than AUD162 R5 straps to pad out "value". The straps probably cost $5 to make and you get a R5 strap in the box anyway if you really want to advertise carrying an expensive, hard-to-get, small camera :-(


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 13, 2020)

Chz said:


> Yes I am in Melbourne. I have been using the BlackRapid strap and hands traps from SpiderPro. I also have the Peakdesign Capture.
> 
> I believe the RRP in Australia is too high hence preorders are lower than what Canon Australia have predicted. Hence the local retailers are dropping the RRP.


I have tried straps and never really liked them. I can hand carry a 5Div with 70-200 f2/8 without many issues. Haven't dropped one yet  
The only time I really needed one was a workshop outside of Sydney Tower which was mandatory to strap the camera into the harness.

Canon Australia's website has always been a bit higher than the resellers. They don't want to compete directly with them. Canon Australia does give some coupons/special pricing from the experience store I believe or via Canon Collective events.


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 13, 2020)

Ramage said:


> Customer - "I'm just not sure I want to spend 6K on a new Camera"
> 
> Sales Person - "It comes with a free jacket if you order now!!"
> 
> ...


Don't forget the 64GB UHS-I SD card as well! Resellers are trying to differentiate themselves a bit. The strap/battery from Canon is to help absorb the sticker shock. The 5 year warranty is definitely a local bonus of course. The resellers have had 30% store wide discounts in the past. I will just need to wait for the next one to get another RF lens


----------



## Besisika (Jul 13, 2020)

FrenchFry said:


> There are a few reasons to do this, depending on the type of photography you are doing. I use this feature in wildlife photography where I am reach-limited. If I know that I will be cropping to APSC or smaller in post anyway, then some advantages of using the crop mode in camera include :
> - the image is magnified in the EVF, which makes it easier to see the subject, and increases confidence that accurate focus has been achieved. It can also be nice to see more accurately what the final composition will look like.
> - cropped images take up less space, so more images fit on the same card. When shooting in large bursts, you may be able to take more images before the buffer fills (more of an issue for SD than CFExpress)
> - the image that I upload to my computer is smaller. This means that I am not storing a bunch of pixels that I don't need anyway, and makes post-processing faster as the images load faster and I am not spending as much time cropping in post.
> ...


Great. Thanks,


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 13, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> At Camera Pro where I pre-ordered it, they also have a bonus EF-RF adapter.
> These little addons may work as a last straw for some potential buyers, they create an illusion of a greater value than they really are


I can see camerapro has the adapter thrown in... are they also including the spare battery for you? I have 3 LP-E6 spares so I don't really need a LP-E6NH battery at the moment
I may just cancel/refund Digidirect as they are $40 more expensive and I need the adapter anyway


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 13, 2020)

drama said:


> I wouldn't say a 5D or R5 were for the majority of the market either. I was talking professional cameras. So yes, the 1D would have been the obvious comparison point. Even the Eos 3 was 1500. The 5D mk2 was 2899 at launch in 2010. The 5D3 was 3400. The market has borne this price for over a decade. And canon glass has always been expensive.


Haha, so none of them were £4k and the 5d3 certainly wasn't around then. To be honest, pricing is a very subjective thing as there are so many variables to consider like exchange rates, inflation, shareholder voting etc etc. I will admit that the price of the 5D series has been quite static for a number of years, despite all these factors which goes against most market conditions. At some point any company is going to have to break from that and re assess costs and market conditions. This is probably that time for Canon setting a new benchmark price for things.


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 13, 2020)

scottkinfw said:


> I ordered my R5 with Canon BG-R10 Battery Grip,Canon Control Ring Mount Adapter EF-EOS R , and Canon LP-E6NH Lithium-Ion Battery . With that said, i need to humbly ask a stupid question, and I hope people can help. I have been trying to figure out which SD card to buy. I know to look for a Compatible with UHS-II V60 or V90 for video. There are a number of designations (sdxc, SDXC2, XQD, ETC.), plus many manufacturers. Since this is a higher MP camera that I will likely use for some video, these decisions are new for me.
> Thanks all.
> 
> Scott


There is a wide range of UHS-II SD cards available. Sandisk specify 300mb/s (UHS-I is only 170mb/s). 
A much smaller range of CFexpress cards and Canon (to my knowledge) han't released qualified CFe cards for the minimum speed needed. Only the 1DXiii has a list and the R5 write speed should be similar to 5.5k/60
I have posted this before and happy to update if someone has new information/spec sheets

The Canon Website indicates that for RAW movie 5.5k60p Recording four CFExpress Cards are supported:
ProGrade Cobalt 325GB;
SanDisk Extreme Pro 512GB; and
Lexar 256 and 128 GB cards.

progradedigital.com/products/cfexpress/
Max speed, size, avg speed
600MB/s Gold 120GB => Avg 145MB/s
1000MB/s Gold 256GB => 350MB/s
1000MB/s Gold 512GB-1T => 500MB/s
1400MB/s Cobalt 325GB => 1300MB/s
The avg to max speed difference is huge from 25% to 50% for gold but cobalt is pretty close to max.

Sandisk write speeds with no mention of sustained/average speed! link is:
https://shop.westerndigital.com/pro...extreme-pro-cfexpress-type-b#SDCFE-064G-ANCIN
64GB 800 MB/s
128/256GB 1200 MB/s
521GB 1400 MB/s

Lexar. I can't find a datasheet for them... only 64GB — 512GB Up to 1750MB/s read, up to 1000MB/s write.
If Lexar 128/256GB cards are okay for the 1DXiii (assumed) 1000MB/s then why aren't the Sandisk 128/256GB included?

Sony tough
128/256GB up to 1480MB/s


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 13, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Like wearing a camera on a cross body strap doesn't scream "Photographer with expensive camera(s)?"


Haha, you're probably right but having spent years with the camera on my shoulder, constantly pushing it back on, I got fed up and decided that comfort was more important. 

Most of the time when I do carry it cross body the camera is behind me so cant even be seen from the front and the strap isn't obviously a camera strap so hopefully not that obvious. I'd rather be understated but not sure what other practical options are out there?


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jul 13, 2020)

Ramage said:


> Thanks I see the Map for my Drone shots in LR, was just curious of there was other uses.



The map in Lightroom is a huge deal actually, for me it's crucial to know the exact location in landscape photography.


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 13, 2020)

Chz said:


> I referred to the Australian market. the RRP is A$1000 higher than USA and that includes exchange rate and tax.
> 
> Some local stores already dropped more than A$500 on their websites.
> 
> The incentive include free battery, limited strap (who care). I think some local stores also include a Sandisk Extreme Prod SDXC 64GB card.


Check if it is a UHS-I or UHS-II card. The UHS-I card is ~AUD57. The 128GB UHS-II Sandisk card from Digidirect is AUD385
https://www.digidirect.com.au/sandisk-128gb-extreme-pro-sdxc-300mb-s-uhs-ii-memory-card
but MSY have it for $289!
https://www.msy.com.au/sandisk-extr...gn4in-sdxc-sdxpk-128gb-u3-c10-uhs-ii-300mbs-r
I've asked them to start stocking CFe cards


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 13, 2020)

FrenchFry said:


> There are a few reasons to do this, depending on the type of photography you are doing. I use this feature in wildlife photography where I am reach-limited. If I know that I will be cropping to APSC or smaller in post anyway, then some advantages of using the crop mode in camera include :
> - the image is magnified in the EVF, which makes it easier to see the subject, and increases confidence that accurate focus has been achieved. It can also be nice to see more accurately what the final composition will look like.
> - cropped images take up less space, so more images fit on the same card. When shooting in large bursts, you may be able to take more images before the buffer fills (more of an issue for SD than CFExpress)
> - the image that I upload to my computer is smaller. This means that I am not storing a bunch of pixels that I don't need anyway, and makes post-processing faster as the images load faster and I am not spending as much time cropping in post.
> ...


CRAW is another alternative for smaller files for card/PC space. From the web research I have done, there is only a small difference in quality


----------



## CvH (Jul 13, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Pre-order cash up front sight-unseen is the general reason for pre-order freebies. I just wish that they were useful (spare battery, EF:RF adapter) rather than AUD162 R5 straps to pad out "value". The straps probably cost $5 to make and you get a R5 strap in the box anyway if you really want to advertise carrying an expensive, hard-to-get, small camera :-(



I think some stores offer free battery and a 64GB SD card with the preorder. I believe it’s a limited edition leather strap although I wonder how many will actually use it?


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jul 13, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> I can see camerapro has the adapter thrown in... are they also including the spare battery for you?



Yep in my preorder there's the camera itself, the adapter, the battery and the strap. Right now I guess they ran out of limited edition straps and batteries and there's only the adapter. The offer with the battery and straps has gone.








Canon R5 Mirrorless Camera Body


Canon R5: Flagship Performance with 8K Video The world’s first interchangeable lens digital camera with 8K video, the R5 Canon takes image quality and speed to revolutionary levels. Canon’s flagship mirrorless camera combines a 45MP full frame sensor and high-performance DIG!C X processor to...




www.camerapro.com.au





I wonder if there's a mix-up and whether I actually get all these goodies. I specifically confirmed it via email on Friday but you never know...


----------



## CvH (Jul 13, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> Haha, you're probably right but having spent years with the camera on my shoulder, constantly pushing it back on, I got fed up and decided that comfort was more important.
> 
> Most of the time when I do carry it cross body the camera is behind me so cant even be seen from the front and the strap isn't obviously a camera strap so hopefully not that obvious. I'd rather be understated but not sure what other practical options are out there?



I have the Spider Pro hand strap on both of my cameras. I only attach the camera to the Black Rapid strap when I was out about and need my hands free.

Wearing a strap across the body has nothing to do with having an expensive or entry level camera. Most people wouldn’t heard of Black Rapid unless they are into photography. But having a strap with Canon/Nikon/Sony certainly attract more unwanted attentions from those who are into no good.


----------



## CvH (Jul 13, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Don't forget the 64GB UHS-I SD card as well! Resellers are trying to differentiate themselves a bit. The strap/battery from Canon is to help absorb the sticker shock. The 5 year warranty is definitely a local bonus of course. The resellers have had 30% store wide discounts in the past. I will just need to wait for the next one to get another RF lens



When was the last time and which stores had store wide 30% discounts? I know 10% or 15% discounts from some local stores from time to time.


----------



## CvH (Jul 13, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Check if it is a UHS-I or UHS-II card. The UHS-I card is ~AUD57. The 128GB UHS-II Sandisk card from Digidirect is AUD385



Yes, it is UHS-I which I think is useless for the R5 and R6.


----------



## padam (Jul 13, 2020)

Chz said:


> Yes, it is UHS-I which I think is useless for the R5 and R6.


Check out the full specs before posting such (useless) comment.
It's really not useless, especially for the R6.
Of course it is always best to have the fastest and have everything unlocked and the best performance for burst shooting.

But for those who don't need it, might as well save up some money, it is not a small difference in price.


----------



## drama (Jul 13, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> Haha, so none of them were £4k and the 5d3 certainly wasn't around then. To be honest, pricing is a very subjective thing as there are so many variables to consider like exchange rates, inflation, shareholder voting etc etc. I will admit that the price of the 5D series has been quite static for a number of years, despite all these factors which goes against most market conditions. At some point any company is going to have to break from that and re assess costs and market conditions. This is probably that time for Canon setting a new benchmark price for things.



Yes. By extrapolating the very extreme of the original range (3-4k, 15-20 years) you managed to "win" on a technicality, on the internet. Congratulations. Of course, you then conceded the entire original point - that high end camera pricing has remained static for years, and therefore that the smartphone argument (the initial point) wasn't a value detractor from their sales. But who cares, because you got to construct an angle out of a conversation you weren't a part of to win a point on the internet. You go, girl!


----------



## vjlex (Jul 13, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> In Lightroom, there's the map that shows locations where I shot my images, which is extremely useful when looking up images by locations, and also find locations by images.
> Also useful when posting to social media, although I don't like to always include the exact locations of my images.
> 
> The above applies to landscape photography mostly.
> ...


Don't know if you saw this in the other thread, but I posted a screencap of a video with the GPS Settings option in the R5 menu. So there's some sort of GPS feature there, but probably bluetooth instead of in-body. You can see my post here.


----------



## CvH (Jul 13, 2020)

padam said:


> Check out the full specs before posting such (useless) comment.
> It's really not useless, especially for the R6.
> Of course it is always best to have the fastest and have everything unlocked and the best performance for burst shooting.
> 
> But for those who don't need it, might as well save up some money, it is not a small difference in price.



Feel free so stick those useless SD cards to your brand new R5 or R6. I am not going to pay close to A$5000 on R6 or over A$7000 on the R5 and use a SD card that cannot realized the full performance of the camera. Just stupid!


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jul 13, 2020)

shunsai said:


> Don't know if you saw this in the other thread, but I posted a screencap of a video with the GPS Settings option in the R5 menu. So there's some sort of GPS feature there, but probably bluetooth instead of in-body. You can see my post here.



Very good. So there's some form of GPS. Definitely not in-camera because of this https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-r5-initial-review/5 (last row says there's no GPS). Because it's under network section of the menu, it's likely done through the BT. Better than nothing...


----------



## padam (Jul 13, 2020)

Chz said:


> Feel free so stick those useless SD cards to your brand new R5 or R6. I am not going to pay close to A$5000 on R6 or over A$7000 on the R5 and use a SD card that cannot realized the full performance of the camera. Just stupid!


I do use them on the EOS R and they present no limitations to me whatsoever. If they do, then I switch to better cards, but I can record 4k with the IPB codec forever (but I use 1080p for 95% of the time anyway) and I also haven't encountered buffer issues.

You know, a lot of people were complaining on this forum that they just don't need video. If they also don't shoot sports either, then they don't necessarily need the cards.

Spending a lot on cards if you don't need to. That's the stupid thing (Yes saving money if you Do need it is stupid, too)


----------



## Chris.Chapterten (Jul 13, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Don't forget the 64GB UHS-I SD card as well! Resellers are trying to differentiate themselves a bit. The strap/battery from Canon is to help absorb the sticker shock. The 5 year warranty is definitely a local bonus of course. The resellers have had 30% store wide discounts in the past. I will just need to wait for the next one to get another RF lens


Camera warehouse is giving away the strap, battery and a 64gb UHS-II card. I already have the EF to RF adapter.. so that's probably the best deal for me


----------



## CvH (Jul 13, 2020)

padam said:


> I do use them on the EOS R and they present no limitations to me whatsoever. If they do, then I switch to better cards, but I can record 4k with the IPB codec forever (but I use 1080p for 95% of the time anyway) and I also haven't encountered buffer issues.
> 
> You know, a lot of people were complaining on this forum that they just don't need video. If they also don't shoot sports either, then they don't necessarily need the cards.
> 
> Spending a lot on cards if you don't need to. That's the stupid thing (Yes saving money if you Do need it is stupid, too)



I also have the R. Its maximum burst rates is 5 frames and record 4k in crop. The R6 and R5 are different animals.

I wonder why people would both to upgrade to the R5 or R6 but won't need the high frame rates nor recording 4k and 8k? Just doesn't make sense to me. 

If I am going to flock out up to A$7000 on the R5, I would be silly to save a couple of hundred to use a less than optimal sd card and not able take advantage of its class leading features.


----------



## JoTomOz (Jul 13, 2020)

q and a with Rudy Winston and b and h. Long but informative 





__ https://www.facebook.com/video.php?v=1128706944168402


----------



## AlanF (Jul 13, 2020)

Besisika said:


> Newbie question; what is the advantage (if any) of shooting crop mode in photo compared to cropping in post, when using an EF (of RF) lense? I can't seem to find straight answer looking around. I think the EOS-R has the option as well, but given the 45MP of the R5 the remaining crop might still have enough resolution. Let me know.


The very least is a ~4x smaller file size on your card and on your computer and faster transfer to your computer. A smart manufacturer could even use it to speed up data acquistion, frame rates etc.


----------



## Starting out EOS R (Jul 13, 2020)

drama said:


> Yes. By extrapolating the very extreme of the original range (3-4k, 15-20 years) you managed to "win" on a technicality, on the internet. Congratulations. Of course, you then conceded the entire original point - that high end camera pricing has remained static for years, and therefore that the smartphone argument (the initial point) wasn't a value detractor from their sales. But who cares, because you got to construct an angle out of a conversation you weren't a part of to win a point on the internet. You go, girl!


Wow, think I may have hit a nerve here. 1st off, this is a public forum so anyone can comment on any post and Im not aware that conversations are limited to certain people? If you don't want people to comment on your posts, dont post.

In regard to 'win a point on the internet. You go girl' Apart from being a little childish, I very clearly said I don't have an opinion either way and was just curious about what mainstream camera's cost £3-£4k 20 years ago as I think you've acknowledged there were none so sort of undermines the content a little.

If it makes you feel better, your right, I'm wrong and you can have all the points and prizes. I really don' t care and it's not that important.


----------



## padam (Jul 13, 2020)

Chz said:


> I also have the R. Its maximum burst rates is 5 frames and record 4k in crop. The R6 and R5 are different animals.
> 
> I wonder why people would both to upgrade to the R5 or R6 but won't need the high frame rates nor recording 4k and 8k? Just doesn't make sense to me.
> 
> If I am going to flock out up to A$7000 on the R5, I would be silly to save a couple of hundred to use a less than optimal sd card and not able take advantage of its class leading features.


The R6 is only 4K IPB and also only 20MP, so the buffer should last a pretty decent amount of time. Needs testing.

The R5 is a great landscape camera (sharper than 5DsR according to Canon) where again, you can waste a lot on cards, you just don't need to. At all. Most people will use them for wedding etc. yes in that case it is better to have the fastest SD card possible to not slow down the dual card slots.

Not everyone needs everything, and people need to understand each other instead of living in a world with their narrow take on things and being patronising , calling everything else being stupid for the way they do things.


----------



## drama (Jul 13, 2020)

Starting out EOS R said:


> If it makes you feel better, your right, I'm wrong and you can have all the points and prizes. I really don' t care and it's not that important.



A response which might have worked had you not kept this up over several days. Also, "if you don't want people to respond to your posts, don't post" cuts both ways there. You kept pushing on a point, I pushed back and backed it up. It's that simple.

Still, glad we agreed in the end.


----------



## adigoks (Jul 13, 2020)

R6 4K 60 Rolling shutter


----------



## Gazwas (Jul 13, 2020)

drama said:


> Yes. By extrapolating the very extreme of the original range (3-4k, 15-20 years) you managed to "win" on a technicality, on the internet. Congratulations. Of course, you then conceded the entire original point - that high end camera pricing has remained static for years, and therefore that the smartphone argument (the initial point) wasn't a value detractor from their sales. But who cares, because you got to construct an angle out of a conversation you weren't a part of to win a point on the internet. You go, girl!


Seem like your basing your whole argument about a comment said in a friendly forum discussion on absolutly no known facts and its basically your oprnnion. Nobody is here to win anythig and its all supposted to be a bit of fun. If you feel so defensive over aver little comment apposing your view, then why bother at all?

I'm looking at EOS-3, EOS-5, EOS 5D, EOS5DII just from Canon and none of these were £4K cameras.

Looking at you sales figures you kindly posted, interchangeable camera global sales seemed to have increased year on year up to 2012 when there was a sharp decline. Coincidently, the 5DIII in 2012 was the first Canon camera to jump up in price from the normal inflationary trend and was also around the time smart phones started to get serious over photography.

Reporters no longer needed photographers, news rooms could obtain cheap images all around the globe, image lead social media exploded and everyone had easy access to a camera.

Its just my opinion, you are welcome to form you own so please don't be offended by it and throw any more cheap insults "_You go, girl!_" at people please.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jul 13, 2020)

JoTomOz said:


> q and a with Rudy Winston and b and h. Long but informative



Ok, there's another confirmation in the video Canon thinks the DR is about 1 stop better than R or 5DIV. Also they say GPS can be received through bluetooth or some special GPS device.


----------



## drama (Jul 13, 2020)

Gazwas said:


> Reporters no longer needed photographers, news rooms could obtain cheap images all around the globe, image lead social media exploded and everyone had easy access to a camera.
> 
> Its just my opinion, you are welcome to form you own so please don't be offended by it and throw any more cheap insults "_You go, girl!_" at people please.



I had no idea that posting data would upset so many delicate flowers. You've repositioned your argument several times to make the point, and you still don't have one. DSLR / pro-level cameras have always been priced in a similar way, given cost of living increases. There has been a minor fall, in tandem with a steep drop off of consumer, single lens point and shoots. My opinion is that of the market - that there are still good sales being made in this area. As you say, you're entitled to an opinion. It doesn't make it right though.


----------



## usern4cr (Jul 13, 2020)

FrenchFry said:


> I believe that this is the link the original poster was referring to (last name was missing the "s":
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Thanks for that link - it worked. I did find the part about focus bracketing. Unfortunately, it only allows one mode of operation, where the bracket starts at the focused position and the focus distance increases with each shot until done.  That's the way it worked in my Olympus EM1_II and I hated it as it was too hard (actually impossible) to guess how far to bring in the focus distance so that the bracketed shots would cover what you wanted with the main point of interest in the middle of it. There were many times when the whole bracket was completely worthless because the main point of interest was never reached.

*Canon: can you please add this option to the focus bracketing menu? :*
I hope Canon can hear feedback on this and add (quite easily) an option in the menu to allow the initial focus position to be the **middle** of the bracketed shots, as that's the way I'd want to use it. EG: I'd focus on the eye of the bug I want to bracket, then press the exposure button, and the camera would back up the focus (reduce the focus distance) appropriately so that the bracketed shots would have the eye in the *middle* of the bracket instead of only at the first shot of the bracket.


----------



## Gazwas (Jul 13, 2020)

drama said:


> I had no idea that posting data would upset so many delicate flowers.



???



drama said:


> You've repositioned your argument several times to make the point, and you still don't have one.



Repositioned how? I'm still sympathising with those who find the cost of the R5 as surprise.



drama said:


> DSLR / pro-level cameras have always been priced in a similar way, given cost of living increases.



See above, they were not.



drama said:


> There has been a minor fall, in tandem with a steep drop off of consumer, single lens point and shoots. My opinion is that of the market - that there are still good sales being made in this area. As you say, you're entitled to an opinion. It doesn't make it right though.



You're looking at the wrong data and need to look at interchangeable lens camera global sales. Still good sales being made yes but the overall trend has shifted sharply and sales are back to 2007 levels and continues to drop. Let's see if the R5 bucks the trend.

I think this is enough off topic discussion.


----------



## Mike the cat (Jul 13, 2020)

I'm curious to see if the 4k 120p has audio recording. Gordon Laing stated in his video that 1080 @120p isn't currently included in pre-production R5 models, but he's asked Canon for it already and I've seen in this thread that somewhere it was confirmed; it will be included in a firmware update. I hope this too will have audio recording.

Edit: Nevermind. Found in the same video that 4k @120p has no audio and is slowed down by 4x in camera. Hopefully when 1080 @120p is released, it retains audio recording .


----------



## drama (Jul 13, 2020)

Gazwas said:


> I think this is enough off topic discussion.



Ah, the "I need the last word, I'm not listening, lalalalaa" way of ending a discussion. You love to see it. Pleasure chatting with you.


----------



## Gazwas (Jul 13, 2020)

Mike the cat said:


> I'm curious to see if the 4k 120p has audio recording. Gordon Laing stated in his video that 1080 @120p isn't currently included in pre-production R5 models, but he's asked Canon for it already and I've seen in this thread that somewhere it was confirmed; it will be included in a firmware update. I hope this too will have audio recording.
> 
> Edit: Nevermind. Found in the same video that 4k @120p has no audio and is slowed down by 4x in camera. Hopefully when 1080 @120p is released, it retains audio recording .


While I'm so pleased with the news of 1080 @ 120p and possibly C-Log3 coming in a future firmware I'd also like to see some photo features like multi shot added for photographers now we have this excellent IBIS system.


----------



## iheartcanon (Jul 13, 2020)

adigoks said:


> R6 4K 60 Rolling shutter


That seems very positive. Now we need to see one for the R5...


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## Eclipsed (Jul 13, 2020)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> ...it’s pretty clear ithe launch is a PR disaster for Canon. Hope they can “right the ship” next week.



That seems more like short term drama-queenery, and a bit of click-baitery.

I expect this "PR Disaster" will result in Canon being unable to keep up with demand, and predict we wont see R5 cameras in stock for immediate shipment at BH or Adorama any time this year.


----------



## Eclipsed (Jul 13, 2020)

Besisika said:


> Newbie question; what is the advantage (if any) of shooting crop mode in photo compared to cropping in post, when using an EF (of RF) lense? I can't seem to find straight answer looking around. I think the EOS-R has the option as well, but given the 45MP of the R5 the remaining crop might still have enough resolution. Let me know.


In crop mode, the image enlarges to fill the view, and you can compose it more readily and see details and verify focus better.


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## Eclipsed (Jul 13, 2020)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> Yes I’m sure your right. When the director asks why his set is shut down and he can’t shoot you can tell him that everything is fine because the camera shut down before it overheated. Honestly, I have no idea what the extent of the problem is but pretending there isn’t a problem rarely helps IME.



It's not a "problem" except for the wrong tool was selected for the job.


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## FrenchFry (Jul 13, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> Thanks for that link - it worked. I did find the part about focus bracketing. Unfortunately, it only allows one mode of operation, where the bracket starts at the focused position and the focus distance increases with each shot until done.  That's the way it worked in my Olympus EM1_II and I hated it as it was too hard (actually impossible) to guess how far to bring in the focus distance so that the bracketed shots would cover what you wanted with the main point of interest in the middle of it. There were many times when the whole bracket was completely worthless because the main point of interest was never reached.
> 
> *Canon: can you please add this option to the focus bracketing menu? :*
> I hope Canon can hear feedback on this and add (quite easily) an option in the menu to allow the initial focus position to be the **middle** of the bracketed shots, as that's the way I'd want to use it. EG: I'd focus on the eye of the bug I want to bracket, then press the exposure button, and the camera would back up the focus (reduce the focus distance) appropriately so that the bracketed shots would have the eye in the *middle* of the bracket instead of only at the first shot of the bracket.


Canon has repeatedly said that they are listening to feedback, and planning on adding new functionality via firmware. This request is a bit buried in the thread, so they may never find it!
I am not sure what official channels there are too get feedback to Canon, but you may want to try responding to one of their YouTube videos or social media pages with this request?
Or we could create a dedicated thread for feature requests that is less "discussion" oriented and in a nice organized list for Canon to evaluate?

Edit: I created a thread for users to add their feature requests in the forum: "Dear Canon... R5 and R6 Firmware Upgrade and Feature Requests".


----------



## unfocused (Jul 13, 2020)

Chz said:


> I referred to the Australian market. the RRP is A$1000 higher than USA and that includes exchange rate and tax.
> 
> Some local stores already dropped more than A$500 on their websites.
> 
> The incentive include free battery, limited strap (who care). I think some local stores also include a Sandisk Extreme Prod SDXC 64GB card.


Don't confuse store incentives with Canon. Dealers often offer their own incentives and bundles to get people to buy from them. But, some people will equate that with Canon incentives or assume Canon is somehow behind those store incentives, which is only the case if it is an incentive that every dealer offers, such as the referenced "free" jacket in Canada. 

Dealers are no doubt desperate for business in these times, so it's no surprise they are cutting their margins or offering a free item or offering discounted bundles.That just means they want to score the sale.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jul 13, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> Thanks for that link - it worked. I did find the part about focus bracketing. Unfortunately, it only allows one mode of operation, where the bracket starts at the focused position and the focus distance increases with each shot until done.  That's the way it worked in my Olympus EM1_II and I hated it as it was too hard (actually impossible) to guess how far to bring in the focus distance so that the bracketed shots would cover what you wanted with the main point of interest in the middle of it. There were many times when the whole bracket was completely worthless because the main point of interest was never reached.



That's interesting. I thought focus bracketing (at least in theory) is done to get everything in focus. So the automatic bracketing should know the DoF for the given focal length, aperture and starting focusing distance and correctly estimate the required steps.


----------



## koenkooi (Jul 13, 2020)

unfocused said:


> Don't confuse store incentives with Canon. Dealers often offer their own incentives and bundles to get people to buy from them. But, some people will equate that with Canon incentives or assume Canon is somehow behind those store incentives, which is only the case if it is an incentive that every dealer offers, such as the referenced "free" jacket in Canada.
> 
> Dealers are no doubt desperate for business in these times, so it's no surprise they are cutting their margins or offering a free item or offering discounted bundles.That just means they want to score the sale.



And Canon is also very fierce about MAP, so stores can't advertise low prices, but they can add in 'free' stuff to give you the same effect as a discount.


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## CvH (Jul 13, 2020)

padam said:


> The R6 is only 4K IPB and also only 20MP, so the buffer should last a pretty decent amount of time. Needs testing.
> 
> The R5 is a great landscape camera (sharper than 5DsR according to Canon) where again, you can waste a lot on cards, you just don't need to. At all. Most people will use them for wedding etc. yes in that case it is better to have the fastest SD card possible to not slow down the dual card slots.
> 
> Not everyone needs everything, and people need to understand each other instead of living in a world with their narrow take on things and being patronising , calling everything else being stupid for the way they do things.



The 5D4 and R are more than capable for landscape. Why would one upgrade from these cameras to the R6 and R5 just for landscape? The R5 is over kill for such use case. There are much cheaper options readily available if they need more resulotion. 

Of course it is rare that some will needs all the features. But why would one invest $3899 for the R5 just for landscape where they can get the 5DS/SR for about half the price?

Other genres where these cameras are trumped such as sports, wildlife and wedding/events certainly need the maximum frame rates that fastest storage speed is desirable.


----------



## vjlex (Jul 13, 2020)

Heading to the Canon Experience store in my city tomorrow to get some hands on with the R5 (only 15 minutes, and they say both the R5 and R6 are available for trying out, but I'm not even remotely interested the R6). The things I want to check out for myself:

what GPS options are in the menu
if the Japanese version will only have English & Japanese language like the 5D4 did (whereas the US version seemed to have 25; 29 with the R5 US version)
Honestly, I don't have many things left to check for as most of the features I would be curious about I feel I already know. Just looking forward to seeing how it feels in my hand and seeing how improved the EVF is over the R. Not likely there is anything that would make me cancel my preorder at this point (unless forthcoming reviews discover some tremendous flaw... 8K overheating doesn't yet reach that bar).

If there's anything anyone else is curious about, let me know and I'll see if I can manage it.


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## vjlex (Jul 13, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> And Canon is also very fierce about MAP, so stores can't advertise low prices, but they can add in 'free' stuff to give you the same effect as a discount.


Is that true anymore? Most prices I've seen from dealers here are about $500 USD below the Canon store price.


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## CvH (Jul 13, 2020)

unfocused said:


> Don't confuse store incentives with Canon. Dealers often offer their own incentives and bundles to get people to buy from them. But, some people will equate that with Canon incentives or assume Canon is somehow behind those store incentives, which is only the case if it is an incentive that every dealer offers, such as the referenced "free" jacket in Canada.
> 
> Dealers are no doubt desperate for business in these times, so it's no surprise they are cutting their margins or offering a free item or offering discounted bundles.That just means they want to score the sale.



Agree. Will need to check but I thought the limited edition strap and free battery are offered by Canon Australia. 

Regardless, my point was the RRP for the R5 and R6 in Australia are overpriced. Hence even the cameras are that good (which they are), the preorder numbers are low. Hence they offer incentives to attract buyers. I could be wrong. 

Another indication that preorder hasn't been high is most stores have dropped over A$500 on their preorder price.


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## Jonathan Thill (Jul 13, 2020)

Chz said:


> Agree. Will need to check but I thought the limited edition strap and free battery are offered by Canon Australia.
> 
> Regardless, my point was the RRP for the R5 and R6 in Australia are overpriced. Hence even the cameras are that good (which they are), the preorder numbers are low. Hence they offer incentives to attract buyers. I could be wrong.
> 
> Another indication that preorder hasn't been high is most stores have dropped over A$500 on their preorder price.











Canon says preorders for the Canon EOS R5 and Canon EOS R6 have exceeded expectations


I usually mock Nikon when they say these sorts of things, so I guess I'll eat crow here. Canon Japan has said that preorder numbers for both the Canon EOS R



www.canonrumors.com


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## CvH (Jul 13, 2020)

Ramage said:


> Canon says preorders for the Canon EOS R5 and Canon EOS R6 have exceeded expectations
> 
> 
> I usually mock Nikon when they say these sorts of things, so I guess I'll eat crow here. Canon Japan has said that preorder numbers for both the Canon EOS R
> ...



May be we are not on the same page? I never doubted the preorder numbers in USA as I believe the RRPs are inline with their product lines. Where there is about A$1000 more than USD$3899. That includes exchange conversion, tax and shipping cost.


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## unfocused (Jul 13, 2020)

Chz said:


> Agree. Will need to check but I thought the limited edition strap and free battery are offered by Canon Australia.
> 
> Regardless, my point was the RRP for the R5 and R6 in Australia are overpriced. Hence even the cameras are that good (which they are), the preorder numbers are low. Hence they offer incentives to attract buyers. I could be wrong.
> 
> Another indication that preorder hasn't been high is most stores have dropped over A$500 on their preorder price.


Don't think there is really much disagreement here. Given the economic conditions worldwide, a few small incentives from either Canon or their dealers isn't a big surprise. I just wouldn't read into that any great significance as small incentives (like "free" card readers, cards and EF to R adapters) have been common for quite some time. 

I do feel sorry for folks in other countries as it often seems the pricing is out of line with what we spoiled Americans are used to.


----------



## Electechjr (Jul 13, 2020)

tpatana said:


> Interesting, please elaborate about the grip, and do you previously use grip on your current/earlier bodies?
> 
> I've had grip since ~2010, and when I bought 5D4 the grip was very expensive and I thought maybe I can live without one. First studio shoot with awkward hand positions and much more tired hands, I decided to order the grip immediately. So I'd be curious why you felt it's better without.
> 
> Funny enough, for my sport shooting I have 2-3 regular assistant. The one I use most, after some 3-4 years of shooting with my gripped 5D4 and 1DX, last winter she came to me very excited "Tero! Did you know when you rotate camera to portrait, there's another shutter button on top!!!" Couldn't help but laugh.


Sorry for the late reply. I generally don't care for the grips. And I don't use grips on any of my current bodies. It is just my personal preference.


----------



## CvH (Jul 13, 2020)

unfocused said:


> I do feel sorry for folks in other countries as it often seems the pricing is out of line with what we spoiled Americans are used to.



Indeed. Hence my rant. Lol

Our European car prices are almost twice compare to the American market.


----------



## davidhfe (Jul 13, 2020)

Gazwas said:


> I'm looking at EOS-3, EOS-5, EOS 5D, EOS5DII just from Canon and none of these were £4K cameras.



There are a few important differences:
- You're comparing cameras at the peak of their maturity. And adjusted for inflation an EOS-3 was still what, $2500?
- How much was an AE-1 at launch? Over $2000, and wasn't that a budget/prosumer model?
- To really get an idea you'd want to look at pricing in Yen, since both GBP and USD are going to be heavily affected by exchange rates.
- E.g. the 5D was well over $4000 in inflation adjusted dollars, so the R5 is similar at least in real USD.
- You're excluding recurring film, development, and print costs from the film SLRs. Digital ILCs have significantly lower TCO (for moderate to heavy shooters)


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## davidhfe (Jul 13, 2020)

Chz said:


> The 5D4 and R are more than capable for landscape. Why would one upgrade from these cameras to the R6 and R5 just for landscape? The R5 is over kill for such use case. There are much cheaper options readily available if they need more resulotion.
> 
> Of course it is rare that some will needs all the features. But why would one invest $3899 for the R5 just for landscape where they can get the 5DS/SR for about half the price?
> 
> Other genres where these cameras are trumped such as sports, wildlife and wedding/events certainly need the maximum frame rates that fastest storage speed is desirable.



I don't think folks are appreciating how great this camera has the potential to be for stills:
- The R5 should represent a 50% increase in detail over a 5D4 with the increased resolution and (presumably) less aggressive filter. 
- Access to the RF lens library, which is outstanding
- IBIS is super useful for landscape away from a tripod
- Potentially easier to pack (though likely offset by, uh, 3-4 extra batteries!)


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## SecureGSM (Jul 13, 2020)

unfocused said:


> Oh yeah. A real PR disaster...hah hah hah. On what planet?


On planet Alpha, Sony galaxy. Where else..


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## CvH (Jul 13, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> I don't think folks are appreciating how great this camera has the potential to be for stills:
> - The R5 should represent a 50% increase in detail over a 5D4 with the increased resolution and (presumably) less aggressive filter.
> - Access to the RF lens library, which is outstanding
> - IBIS is super useful for landscape away from a tripod
> - Potentially easier to pack (though likely offset by, uh, 3-4 extra batteries!)



I have said multiple times that I have no doubt how good both R6 and R5.

I know the R5 is as sharp or sharper then the 5DS camera. But where did you see that it's 50% better than the 5D4?

Not sure about you but most if not all landscape photographers that I know almost always use tripod for their landscape shoot.


----------



## SecureGSM (Jul 13, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> May be a bit better, but for high ISO he clearly uses the jpegs, we're yet to see the raw files to analyse the DR and high ISO.


A One stop of improvement at high (Over 6400) ISO over R sensor is a pipe dream. That’s would be just crazy.


----------



## padam (Jul 13, 2020)

Chz said:


> The 5D4 and R are more than capable for landscape. Why would one upgrade from these cameras to the R6 and R5 just for landscape? The R5 is over kill for such use case. There are much cheaper options readily available if they need more resulotion.


The dynamic range is a full stop better (or at least two stops better compared to the 5DsR), basically very close to the Sony (_but it's not a Sony_) and the resolution is higher as well.
So yes,very much an upgrade for landscape photography.

What about cityscape photography? Handheld 2 seconds exposure with the IBIS, no problem (probably quite a bit better than Sony). Huge difference, could be great for shooting waterfalls as well.

But of course you know everyone else's mind better and they are stupid to upgrade to the R5 unless they shoot 12fps all day, so I'll stop here.


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Jul 13, 2020)

padam said:


> The dynamic range is a full stop better (or at least two stops better compared to the 5DsR), basically very close to the Sony (_but it's not a Sony_) and the resolution is higher as well.
> So yes,very much an upgrade for landscape photography.
> 
> What about cityscape photography? Handheld 2 seconds exposure with the IBIS, no problem (probably quite a bit better than Sony). Huge difference, could be great for shooting waterfalls as well.
> ...


Yeah I pre-ordered the R5 and I shoot mainly landscapes. I upgraded for the all reasons you point out plus I like to print really large prints on Aluminum or acrylic.

Besides after the $2800 cdn I got for my EOS R kit the cost to me of $3200 is awesome. The RF 24-105 had not been on the R since I got the RF 70-200 and the RF 15-35. My RF 35 lives on my RP now but I am looking forward to being able to balance the R5 with 35 on my Ronin SC (could never get the 15-35 to Balance ) and not have a crop in 4k for "macro" product clips. I see a gold mine for 4K Slow-mo Stock clips in my future


----------



## usern4cr (Jul 13, 2020)

FrenchFry said:


> Canon has repeatedly said that they are listening to feedback, and planning on adding new functionality via firmware. This request is a bit buried in the thread, so they may never find it!
> I am not sure what official channels there are too get feedback to Canon, but you may want to try responding to one of their YouTube videos or social media pages with this request?
> Or we could create a dedicated thread for feature requests that is less "discussion" oriented and in a nice organized list for Canon to evaluate?
> 
> Edit: I created a thread for users to add their feature requests in the forum: "Dear Canon... R5 and R6 Firmware Upgrade and Feature Requests".


Where is this forum, and how do I access it? FYI: I am currently not a Canon owner. But I have ordered the R5 and RF 100-500 f4.5-7.1 L IS lens at B&H so I will be a Canon owner soon. I have copied my request in a post to the new CanonRumors thread that started today about firmware updates.


----------



## padam (Jul 13, 2020)

Ramage said:


> Yeah I pre-ordered the R5 and I shoot mainly landscapes. I upgraded for the all reasons you point out plus I like to print really large prints on Aluminum or acrylic.
> 
> Besides after the $2800 cdn I got for my EOS R kit the cost to me of $3200 is awesome. The RF 24-105 had not been on the R since I got the RF 70-200 and the RF 15-35. My RF 35 lives on my RP now but I am looking forward to be able to balance it on my Ronin SC and the R5 and not have a crop in 4k for "macro" product shots.


Those two zooms are the ones I am planning to get as well, if I sell the 28-70/2 and 24-105/4.


----------



## pmjm (Jul 13, 2020)

mppix said:


> Maybe a stupid question but why would you film long interviews at 8K?
> The data volume is quite intense: ~1TB per hour of video per camera.
> For now, I could see 8K mostly in cinematographic workflow where people film scenes of a few min at a time.



I deliver at 4K. 8K would give me latitude in editing to reframe or zoom in and still deliver 4K without quality loss. It also lets me do software oversampling.


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Jul 13, 2020)

padam said:


> Those two zooms are the ones I am planning to get as well, if I sell the 28-70/2 and 24-105/4.


That 28-70 has been in and out of my cart so many times. If the IBIS is a good as it seems I think I will finally pull the trigger.


----------



## usern4cr (Jul 13, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> That's interesting. I thought focus bracketing (at least in theory) is done to get everything in focus. So the automatic bracketing should know the DoF for the given focal length, aperture and starting focusing distance and correctly estimate the required steps.


No, you have to focus on the starting distance (which is difficult), the right step size (which is a guess), and the number of steps to do (which is a guess). And you can only *hope* that the bracket ends at a good spot. It's extremely frustrating! That's why I want to have the *added option* to focus on the middle of the bracket (eg. using eye AF or manual focus for the eye of a bug) and have that be the *middle* of the bracket. Then no matter what step size and #steps I choose, it will *always* get that eye in focus in the middle of the bracket. This seems so obvious, it's amazing that it's not already the way that it's implemented.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jul 13, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> A One stop of improvement at high (Over 6400) ISO over R sensor is a pipe dream. That’s would be just crazy.



That's unlikely to happen.  Canon claims a one stop DR improvement against the R and 5DIV, but that'll be at the base ISO I guess. It'll converge to the same curve as other cameras at ISO 6400. Looking forward to seeing the photonstophotos measurements.


----------



## FrenchFry (Jul 13, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> Where is this forum, and how do I access it? FYI: I am currently not a Canon owner. But I have ordered the R5 and RF 100-500 f4.5-7.1 L IS lens at B&H so I will be a Canon owner soon. I have copied my request in a post to the new CanonRumors thread that started today about firmware updates.



Hi,
I just created the thread here on Canon Rumors. If anyone knows how to then get this consolidated information over to Canon, and the thread actually contains valuable suggestions, I am sure they will do so. I added your idea to the list of sample ideas, but feel free to elaborate (I was not taking credit for any of the ideas, just consolidating in one place).
It's under Forums>Gear Talk>EOS R Series Camera Discussion RP, R, R5, R6>*Dear Canon... R5 and R6 Firmware Upgrade and Feature Requests*
​Direct URL: https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/i...-firmware-upgrade-and-feature-requests.38815/

I am greatly looking forward to using the R5 and 100-500!


----------



## davidhfe (Jul 13, 2020)

Chz said:


> I have said multiple times that I have no doubt how good both R6 and R5.
> 
> I know the R5 is as sharp or sharper then the 5DS camera. But where did you see that it's 50% better than the 5D4?
> 
> Not sure about you but most if not all landscape photographers that I know almost always use tripod for their landscape shoot.



The question was "why would you consider an upgrade if you're a landscape shooter" and those were some ideas right off the top of my head. If you are always on a tripod and don't need the resolution bump, totally get it.

The 50% is just the increase from 30 -> 45 mp. It's a ballpark, but generally when folks have looked at the higher res Nikon/Sony bodies, there's a clear improvement vs the 5D4. The AA filter's aggressiveness is TBD, but even if it was somehow unchanged from the 5D4, you're still playing with a lot more pixels.


----------



## usern4cr (Jul 13, 2020)

FrenchFry said:


> Hi,
> I just created the thread here on Canon Rumors. If anyone knows how to then get this consolidated information over to Canon, and the thread actually contains valuable suggestions, I am sure they will do so. I added your idea to the list of sample ideas, but feel free to elaborate (I was not taking credit for any of the ideas, just consolidating in one place).
> It's under Forums>Gear Talk>EOS R Series Camera Discussion RP, R, R5, R6>*Dear Canon... R5 and R6 Firmware Upgrade and Feature Requests*
> ​Direct URL: https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/i...-firmware-upgrade-and-feature-requests.38815/
> ...


OK - I saw how you organized it, and edited it into succinct suggestions. It looks good. It was kind of sad to read there that Canon really doesn't look at these threads, as that kind of "takes the wind out of my sails" since I had hoped they would. I guess it's easy to say you listen to your customers, but a lot harder to actually do it. But I guess one can only hope that things can be seen and that they get even better.


----------



## tpatana (Jul 13, 2020)

Ramage said:


> That 28-70 has been in and out of my cart so many times. If the IBIS is a good as it seems I think I will finally pull the trigger.



I'm trying to find good deal on it.


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Jul 13, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> OK - I saw how you organized it, and edited it into succinct suggestions. It looks good. It was kind of sad to read there that Canon really doesn't look at these threads, as that kind of "takes the wind out of my sails" since I had hoped they would. I guess it's easy to say you listen to your customers, but a lot harder to actually do it. But I guess one can only hope that things can be seen and that they get even better.


I work for a large company and I can tell you 100% these kinds of threads are looked at for sure, acted upon is another story. Put it this way free consumer feedback is a gift of the social media age that successful companies leverage for sure. All the Product Managers I work with are always hiding in the wings of forums, twitter, Facebook etc...


----------



## usern4cr (Jul 13, 2020)

tpatana said:


> I'm trying to find good deal on it.


I've often thought about this lens (and the future? 70-135 f2). But I worry that it's so big & heavy that I wouldn't want to use it after all, or that it might scare other people. Does that worry you?

Maybe I just need to see if I can find one to hold so I could better consider it. I happen to be retired with a budget to indulge my camera hobby, so cost is not the issue - I just want to make sure I use it after the thrill of buying it wears off.


----------



## StevenA (Jul 13, 2020)

1D4 said:


> Not sure if it's been posted, but just noticed the expected availability date for the 100-500mm now reads October 1 on B&H's site. I was hoping for an early September date, but looks like we might not even get it in that month. Guess I'll have to be patient, but a 2 month wait between the R5 and getting the lens I desperately need will be rough
> 
> Edit: Looks like Amazon has September 30th.



I preordered the R5 kit and the 100-500 from Amazon. 5% back using their card. Mmm good! But yeah the waiting sucks.


----------



## padam (Jul 13, 2020)

Ramage said:


> That 28-70 has been in and out of my cart so many times. If the IBIS is a good as it seems I think I will finally pull the trigger.


It amazing with the EOS R already. I simply can't afford to keep it if I get the other two.


----------



## Jonathan Thill (Jul 13, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> I've often thought about this lens (and the future? 70-135 f2). But I worry that it's so big & heavy that I wouldn't want to use it after all, or that it might scare other people. Does that worry you?
> 
> Maybe I just need to see if I can find one to hold so I could better consider it. I happen to be retired with a budget to indulge my camera hobby, so cost is not the issue - I just want to make sure I use it after the thrill of buying it wears off.


I do not own the 28-70 but I have used the Lens a few times and it is BIG. I actually like as heavy of a Camera bag as I can carry so the weight does not bother me at all so I cannot really speak to that.

Two thing I did notice with this BIG lens on my R

People notice it for sure
When they notice it they either respond by thinking you are a PRO and often ask questions (Not unwelcome if I am not actively shooting) or they shy away and stop acting as they normally would. This is not a street photographers lens

95mm filter size is a hassle,
I use the Lee 100 Filter system and while Lee makes a 95mm holder ring there is not a Wide angle option so this would not work for me.
I also use PolarPro Circular ND's and again no 95mm option

I use the 15-35 and the 70-200 all the time and love both these options but I really like the idea of having a zoom with prime like speed for walking about. I might settle for the 24-70 but the pure exotic nature of the 28-70 is so intriguing.


----------



## FrenchFry (Jul 13, 2020)

Ramage said:


> I work for a large company and I can tell you 100% these kinds of threads are looked at for sure, acted upon is another story. Put it this way free consumer feedback is a gift of the social media age that successful companies leverage for sure. All the Product Managers I work with are always hiding in the wings of forums, twitter, Facebook etc...


All we can do is try! If Canon does decide to act on our feedback, we will be ready with lots of ideas to make these cameras even more special!


----------



## tpatana (Jul 13, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> I've often thought about this lens (and the future? 70-135 f2). But I worry that it's so big & heavy that I wouldn't want to use it after all, or that it might scare other people. Does that worry you?
> 
> Maybe I just need to see if I can find one to hold so I could better consider it. I happen to be retired with a budget to indulge my camera hobby, so cost is not the issue - I just want to make sure I use it after the thrill of buying it wears off.



My current normal sports event is 1dx and ef 70-200 F2.8, for some 8 hours (with breaks). Assuming the body and lens ergonomics allow for proper arm position, I'm not too worried.

I haven't used one though. Those who have, can you comment on size compared to e.g. Sigma 85/1.4 ?


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 13, 2020)

Chz said:


> When was the last time and which stores had store wide 30% discounts? I know 10% or 15% discounts from some local stores from time to time.


April this year I think. In March I got the RF70-200mm for AUD3550 (regular ~AUD4200) but in April it had come down to AUD3300. Digidirect price matched digitalcamerawarehouse. I was happy in any case.


----------



## HenryL (Jul 13, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> Thanks for that link - it worked. I did find the part about focus bracketing. Unfortunately, it only allows one mode of operation, where the bracket starts at the focused position and the focus distance increases with each shot until done.  That's the way it worked in my Olympus EM1_II and I hated it as it was too hard (actually impossible) to guess how far to bring in the focus distance so that the bracketed shots would cover what you wanted with the main point of interest in the middle of it. There were many times when the whole bracket was completely worthless because the main point of interest was never reached.
> 
> *Canon: can you please add this option to the focus bracketing menu? :*
> I hope Canon can hear feedback on this and add (quite easily) an option in the menu to allow the initial focus position to be the **middle** of the bracketed shots, as that's the way I'd want to use it. EG: I'd focus on the eye of the bug I want to bracket, then press the exposure button, and the camera would back up the focus (reduce the focus distance) appropriately so that the bracketed shots would have the eye in the *middle* of the bracket instead of only at the first shot of the bracket.


Sorry to rain on the parade, but that link is garbage. I would strongly recommend against taking anything found on that linked website as evidence of anything related to the R5. Check out the movie recording size section - it doesn't mention 8K at all...and this, which indicates we don't really get 12/20fps...

"*High Speed Display*

The Canon EOS R5 must be set to high speed frame rate to enable this option. This setting lets the EVF update faster than the 5 FPS rate at which the EOS R5 shoots in Continuous Hi mode." 

...and this...

"This means that _shaR5_ focus will more than ever be placed on the “leading" eye of your subjects,"

which is under Eye Detection AF. Looks like the guy did a search & replace, substituting R5 for RP. 

And why would an R5 manual have photos of an RP? 

Or mention an old DSLR? "You can select how to protect and unprotect an image from deletion on the EOS 50D"


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 14, 2020)

padam said:


> Check out the full specs before posting such (useless) comment.
> It's really not useless, especially for the R6.
> Of course it is always best to have the fastest and have everything unlocked and the best performance for burst shooting.
> 
> But for those who don't need it, might as well save up some money, it is not a small difference in price.


Yes, there is a reasonable buffer on the R5 - even for the SD card slot but UHS-I card will hit the continuous write speed. I already have UHS-I cards so bundling in it is a bit "useless" - at least for me.


----------



## CvH (Jul 14, 2020)

padam said:


> The dynamic range is a full stop better (or at least two stops better compared to the 5DsR), basically very close to the Sony (_but it's not a Sony_) and the resolution is higher as well.
> So yes,very much an upgrade for landscape photography.
> 
> What about cityscape photography? Handheld 2 seconds exposure with the IBIS, no problem (probably quite a bit better than Sony). Huge difference, could be great for shooting waterfalls as well.
> ...



No doubt the DR will be better than the previous generation sensors. 

Yes, on certain lenses, the shutter may be able slow down to 2 seconds. Let’s wait for real lift tests.

Not sure any serious landscape photographers will rather doing handheld long exposures for their work.

This is at least the second times you put words in my mouth! Where did I say I know everyone mind?? So stop that craps.


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 14, 2020)

unfocused said:


> Don't confuse store incentives with Canon. Dealers often offer their own incentives and bundles to get people to buy from them. But, some people will equate that with Canon incentives or assume Canon is somehow behind those store incentives, which is only the case if it is an incentive that every dealer offers, such as the referenced "free" jacket in Canada.
> 
> Dealers are no doubt desperate for business in these times, so it's no surprise they are cutting their margins or offering a free item or offering discounted bundles.That just means they want to score the sale.


It was confirmed to me by Digidirect that Canon Australia was offering the spare battery and custom strap to them and provided the pricing to justify their AUD400 pre-order bundle. I am checking if an alternative reseller that is offering an adapter instead will also include the battery. I need the adapter, I don't need the battery or strap (or UHS-I card)

EDIT: CameraPro says that Canon Australia have run out of their custom straps and resellers can no longer offer them for pre-orders. This confirms Canon's comment about pre-ordering numbers. Camerapro will not guarantee sufficient quantities for the initial release if I order today.


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 14, 2020)

Mike the cat said:


> I'm curious to see if the 4k 120p has audio recording. Gordon Laing stated in his video that 1080 @120p isn't currently included in pre-production R5 models, but he's asked Canon for it already and I've seen in this thread that somewhere it was confirmed; it will be included in a firmware update. I hope this too will have audio recording.
> 
> Edit: Nevermind. Found in the same video that 4k @120p has no audio and is slowed down by 4x in camera. Hopefully when 1080 @120p is released, it retains audio recording .


I always thought that xK30/60/120fps were for slow mo in post production... or at least that is my usage but I am not a serious videographer. What scenarios would you want audio as well?


----------



## CvH (Jul 14, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> The question was "why would you consider an upgrade if you're a landscape shooter" and those were some ideas right off the top of my head. If you are always on a tripod and don't need the resolution bump, totally get it.
> 
> The 50% is just the increase from 30 -> 45 mp. It's a ballpark, but generally when folks have looked at the higher res Nikon/Sony bodies, there's a clear improvement vs the 5D4. The AA filter's aggressiveness is TBD, but even if it was somehow unchanged from the 5D4, you're still playing with a lot more pixels.



Agree with increase in resolution compares to the 5D4 and R. For those who wants or needs additional resolution for landscape, the 5DS/SR are much cheaper alternative. Will an extra 1 - 2 stops DR warrant the upgrade to the R5 over the 5DS/SR? I personally wouldn’t and I wonder how many would do it?


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

Chz said:


> The R5 price on the Canon online store is A$7099. The local stores typically quoted it as the RRP.
> 
> Yes, some local stores are dropping their preorder prices to around A$6500.



In most countries authorized Canon dealers are not allowed to advertise prices below the MSRP (RRP). They can sell them below it, but they can't publish the lower price. It's in the contract between authorized sellers and Canon.


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 14, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> And Canon is also very fierce about MAP, so stores can't advertise low prices, but they can add in 'free' stuff to give you the same effect as a discount.


OEMs can't dictate a minimum selling (or advertised) price for their resellers by law in Australia. Canon can protect their RRP (recommend Retail Price) by offering rebates, bundling in stuff etc but it is an open market for resellers to make whatever margin they can. If they were selling under Canon's cost to them then there would be some serious discussions why of course.


----------



## CvH (Jul 14, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> April this year I think. In March I got the RF70-200mm for AUD3550 (regular ~AUD4200) but in April it had come down to AUD3300. Digidirect price matched digitalcamerawarehouse. I was happy in any case.



That’s about 20% discount and still excellent deal. I am on their email distribution list so will need to keep an eye out.


----------



## CvH (Jul 14, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> In most countries authorized Canon dealers are not allowed to advertise prices below the MSRP (RRP). They can sell them below it, but they can't publish the lower price. It's in the contract between authorized sellers and Canon.



I know. My rant was the A$1000 price disparity when comparing the Canon RRP between America and Australia. There were many who voiced their complains on the Canon Australia Facebook pages.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

GMCPhotographics said:


> Wow...UK price for the R5 body is way over inflated compared to US price. US $3899. Through the current 1.26 exchange rate, £3094.44. Dial in a 20% vat rate, £3713.33 should be the accurate UK price. Current uk price: £4199!!! £500 higher than it should be, $600 is you do the conversion numbers.
> Typically in the UK we take the US $ price and change the $ for £ sign and that usually equates the VAt margin...but this camera is WAY more expensive than that. £300 MORE than that. Canon is being greedy with the UK market again.



How much extra do you think we pay in the U.S. for the same extended warranty you get for nothing extra? Not to mention that we pay around 8-10% sales tax that is not included in the price because the sales tax rate varies from one locale (State/County/City/District) to the next.

For me to buy the R5 at $3,899 requires an additional $311.92 in sales tax from an out of state online dealer and an additional $350.91 in sales tax from a brick and mortar dealer in my tax district. It could be 10% ($389.90) or more in nearby large cities, which is the only place I'll find a retailer who actually sells EOS R5 cameras over a counter.

That puts my out-of-pocket cost at $4,210-$4,289 USD, *and I still only have a one year warranty*. If I want to add CarePak for an additional two years (three years total coverage from time of purchase), that's an additional $243.99+sales tax.

So now I'm looking at $4,588 USD for an R5 with a three year warranty.


----------



## Rideclick (Jul 14, 2020)

@Besisika Thank you! Very well put and agree with all of your points.

Has anyone heard if the naming convention is the same where you set 4characters then have a 4 digit image number? I've had shoots that have rolled the image number over. Not a big deal but a 5 digit image number one would put the cherry on top of this.

I think this is like they gave you your wish list camera.




Besisika said:


> Nobody answers your question so let me try my best (some got too much emotionally involved).
> The way I see it is that Canon tries to deliver to us a camera that today's technology cannot do yet.
> I like their approach and I am very pleased that they did so.
> The R6 was designed the old way: "this is what we think you should have, so have it whether you like it or not". The R5 went the opposite direction: "We give you a bunch of options and you choose what you want". People's problem is that they didn't take the time to sit down and choose the right option for them. They simply want to use the latest and greatest option and demand that it works their way, but our technology is not there yet.
> ...


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

Eclipsed said:


> Just for fun, what would anyone predict for the first date a major retailer (Adorama or BH) has an R5 in stock at normal price and ready to ship? I’ll guess Jan 1 2021.



I assume you mean without a waiting list? The first one they all get will be in stock at normal price and ready to ship until they start shipping them to the folks on the preorder list.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

privatebydesign said:


> Having watched Irene’s videos since she began I don’t see anything different in the actual images from her normal 5D III and her EF 85 f1.2.



For the most part I agree with you, but the details of each individual pore on her models' faces are a bit clearer with the R5 and RF lenses.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> I was thinking specifically about the GF lenses for GFX. Older film MF lenses were not very high-resolving in comparison.



The physics are still the same. If a MF format lens being used on a camera with a crop factor of 0.64 (the largest current MF digital sensors in mass production) can resolve 500 lp/mm, a FF 135 lens must resolve 781 lp/mm to give an image with the same resolution along the diagonal of the frame.

Fuji GFX has a crop factor of 0.78, so a 135 format lens need only resolve 641 lp/mm to match a 500 lp/mm lens on a GFX camera.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 14, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> For the most part I agree with you, but the details of each individual pore on her models' faces are a bit clearer with the R5 and RF lenses.


True indeed, good job I can buy the LR/Photoshop action to soften it back to a place where I can show the subject...


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> And they complained about not knowing if the R5/6 animal eye-AF was going to work, when clearly there are videos on YouTube showing this. And the videos are linked to from multiple sites like Fredmiranda, here, and in Canon Facebook groups. It's like it's their first time using the Internet or something.



Hardly. They know how to _USE_ the internet to get more clicks and line their pockets, which is what every review video they post is all about.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

Richard Anthony said:


> So the real world reviews are starting and this is from a Sony shooter



Those are still pre-production bodies.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> Yes I’m sure your right. When the director asks why his set is shut down and he can’t shoot you can tell him that everything is fine because the camera shut down before it overheated. Honestly, I have no idea what the extent of the problem is but pretending there isn’t a problem rarely helps IME.



If a director on a set such as you describe is using a $4000 hybrid stills/video camera to begin with, there's your problem.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

Richard Anthony said:


> I should imagine we will see all this in the week as more reviews roll out .



Everything will still be in-camera JPEGs with the pre-production bodies. Canon makes anyone who gets one to test sign an agreement not to release any raw files from them or not release images derived from raw files using non-Canon authorized raw convertors until the embargo has been lifted.

Not to mention that it will likely take a while for third party raw convertors to add compatibility for the new cameras.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jul 14, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> No, you have to focus on the starting distance (which is difficult), the right step size (which is a guess), and the number of steps to do (which is a guess). And you can only *hope* that the bracket ends at a good spot. It's extremely frustrating! That's why I want to have the *added option* to focus on the middle of the bracket (eg. using eye AF or manual focus for the eye of a bug) and have that be the *middle* of the bracket. Then no matter what step size and #steps I choose, it will *always* get that eye in focus in the middle of the bracket. This seems so obvious, it's amazing that it's not already the way that it's implemented.



I don't know how it is/will be implemented in the R5 but what you described is useless for both macro and landscape, if you have to manually specify the number of steps and the step size. I rarely do focus stacking in landscapes, 2-3 shots is usually enough and I focus on key objects - fixed steps would have been useless unless they automatically cover the whole depth of the scene by overlapping DoFs of each shot.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Having 2 cameras and underwater housings was the only solution if you wanted more than 36 shots underwater in one dive!



Did they not make UW housings large enough for magazine backs that would hold anywhere from 100 frames (13') to 250 frames (Canon largest) to 750 frames (100' - Nikon's largest)?


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

Chz said:


> I am a practical person. I like Canon gears but I like my wallet too.
> 
> Let’s flip the coin, how do you feel if the R5 price in your country is $1000 more than other overseas markets? Will you happily get one knowingly the price isn’t parity against global markets?



How would you feel if you only got a one year warranty that didn't cover anything remotely related to water damage or user error? How would you feel about having to pay an additional $350+tax to extend that one year warranty to three years (two additional years)?


----------



## usern4cr (Jul 14, 2020)

HenryL said:


> Sorry to rain on the parade, but that link is garbage. I would strongly recommend against taking anything found on that linked website as evidence of anything related to the R5. Check out the movie recording size section - it doesn't mention 8K at all...and this, which indicates we don't really get 12/20fps...
> 
> "*High Speed Display*
> 
> ...


Thanks for the heads up on the link being garbage.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 14, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Did they not make UW housings large enough for magazine backs that would hold anywhere from 100 frames (13') to 250 frames (Canon largest) to 750 frames (100' - Nikon's largest)?


Not that I ever saw, however I have seen David Doublet shooting with twenty film cameras and housings and four camera assistants!

I actually had an F1N with the FN 100 back for many years, still got the F1N but the back was sold a few years ago.

EDIT: I just found this old picture of my F1N and FN-100 bulk back, still have the camera but not the back.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> Clearly the R5 is above the "regular" 5 series. Currently the R5 is 70% more expensive than the 5Div and 80% if you include the currently bundled AUD250 gift card. I get that the 5Div is already 4 years old but it has been keeping its price high even though the R has been dropping a lot.



The 5D Mark IV was introduced at $3,499 USD in 2016.

$3,499 in 2016 could buy what $3,737.90 can buy in 2020.

The EOS R5 was introduced in the U.S. at $3,899

That's a 4.3% increase over the price of the 5D Mark IV at launch when adjusted for inflation.

As for the EOS 5D Mark IV holding its value over the course of the last 4+ years...


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jul 14, 2020)

Chz said:


> Agree with increase in resolution compares to the 5D4 and R. For those who wants or needs additional resolution for landscape, the 5DS/SR are much cheaper alternative. Will an extra 1 - 2 stops DR warrant the upgrade to the R5 over the 5DS/SR? I personally wouldn’t and I wonder how many would do it?



It depends on the budget. I considered 5DsR for landscape photography at some point but realised it was sub-par to 5DIV, at least for my purposes. Resolution is important but so is dynamic range. Switching from 5DIV to 5DsR instead of upgrading to R5 - that wouldn't make the process enjoyable considering significant difference in the DR metric.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

Chz said:


> Do you really believe that???



You've obviously never worked in a large corporation where people feel the need to do things just to "prove" they are needed and won't be the next casualty of downsizing.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

tpatana said:


> I wonder what happens with those non-approved? Does it say "too slow, will not record", or does it get some frame drops or artifacts on the video?
> 
> I have couple off-brand (supposedly fast) CFexpress cards already, wondering if I should use them with R5 and how to test to make sure they don't fail when it matters.



For many cards it usually means they haven't tested that specific card with that specific camera model. They only list cards they have confirmed will work as expected. They don't list cards they have not tested.


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 14, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Did they not make UW housings large enough for magazine backs that would hold anywhere from 100 frames (13') to 250 frames (Canon largest) to 750 frames (100' - Nikon's largest)?


A bit before my time but I didn't hear of any other options.


----------



## tpatana (Jul 14, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> For many cards it usually means they haven't tested that specific card with that specific camera model. They only list cards they have confirmed will work as expected. They don't list cards they have not tested.



Yes, but what happens in actuality when you try to use those cards and if they are too slow, does it mention it or do you get garbage?


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

Chz said:


> Agree. Will need to check but I thought the limited edition strap and free battery are offered by Canon Australia.
> 
> Regardless, my point was the RRP for the R5 and R6 in Australia are overpriced. Hence even the cameras are that good (which they are), the preorder numbers are low. Hence they offer incentives to attract buyers. I could be wrong.
> 
> Another indication that preorder hasn't been high is most stores have dropped over A$500 on their preorder price.



Or maybe they've dropped the price because their full allotment of kits with the promo goodies has been sold already? There have been several posts here in the past 24 hours that some Australian dealers are no longer offering the special edition leather strap.


----------



## CvH (Jul 14, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> How would you feel if you only got a one year warranty that didn't cover anything remotely related to water damage or user error? How would you feel about having to pay an additional $350+tax to extend that one year warranty to three years (two additional years)?



You haven’t answer my question whether you will be happy to pay A$1000 more. even considering the additional warranty.

I like to know which manufactures will cover water damages and user error under their warranty.


----------



## CvH (Jul 14, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Or maybe they've dropped the price because their full allotment of kits with the promo goodies has been sold already? There have been several posts here in the past 24 hours that some Australian dealers are no longer offering the special edition leather strap.



No, the discounted price also includes he bonus pack.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

Gazwas said:


> I’d actually prefer an adult conversation with you that has nothing to do with saving anyone’s reputation or dignity.
> 
> Unless I’m wrong, sales of higher end cameras are not as strong today as they were 20 years ago and I am suggesting that while that could be attributed to many things, smart phones and £4000 cameras along with £3000 lenses doesn’t help.



Sales of higher end cameras, measured in units, are every bit as strong as they were 20 years ago, before the explosion in sales that began about 15 years ago when digital first started to become affordable for all but rarified National Geographic staffers and their ilk. 

Sales are nothing compared to ten years ago when digital cameras were improving significantly with every new model release. 

Phones have poached the low end of ILC sales. The demise of print media has affected the high end to a much lesser degree.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

Joel C said:


> You're telling me we have to wait all the way to HALLOWEEN for the 85mm f/2???!?!?
> 
> Can anyone tell me why you would announce this right now? This makes zero sense to me when it could easily be announced in the fall.
> 
> Now I begin the 112 day wait until the thing can actually ship...



Six months ago: "Why can't Canon publish a roadmap so we will know how to plan and save?"

Now: "Why did they announce it three months before I can get?"


----------



## David - Sydney (Jul 14, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> The 5D Mark IV was introduced at $3,499 USD in 2016.
> 
> $3,499 in 2016 could buy what $3,737.90 can buy in 2020.
> 
> ...


The pricing in the US can be more competitive than in other countries. Amazon Australia is nowhere near as good as Amazon US for instance and didn't even exist here until 2019

5D3 at release from Canon = $4300 (all numbers in AUD) @2012
5D4 at release from canon = $5700. resellers = $5k @2016
currently from Canon = $4100. resellers = $4k 
=> so only 25% drop compared to 40% from your amazon USA chart

R5 at release from Canon = $7100. resellers = $6600 @2020
exchange rate against yen is ~5% lower since 2016 
Inflation increase is ~10% over 4 years.
Now 5 year local warranty
25% gross increase from 2016 5Div and 30+% increase from the resellers


----------



## scottkinfw (Jul 14, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> There is a wide range of UHS-II SD cards available. Sandisk specify 300mb/s (UHS-I is only 170mb/s).
> A much smaller range of CFexpress cards and Canon (to my knowledge) han't released qualified CFe cards for the minimum speed needed. Only the 1DXiii has a list and the R5 write speed should be similar to 5.5k/60
> I have posted this before and happy to update if someone has new information/spec sheets
> 
> ...


Thank you so much!


----------



## Graphic.Artifacts (Jul 14, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> If a director on a set such as you describe is using a $4000 hybrid stills/video camera to begin with, there's your problem.


Marketing piece straight from Canon on the R5 entitled “the camera will shoot comfortably on high-end production sets” My inbox was full of this stuff for months. Canon built the hype up around the camera as a high end video production tool not me. You disagree . Fine. You should take it up with them. I’m only repeating what Canon has been saying for six months. 





More Canon EOS R5 specs revealed – “the camera will shoot comfortably on high-end production sets” - Canon Press Centre - Canon Europe







www.canon-europe.com


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

tpatana said:


> Interesting, please elaborate about the grip, and do you previously use grip on your current/earlier bodies?
> 
> I've had grip since ~2010, and when I bought 5D4 the grip was very expensive and I thought maybe I can live without one. First studio shoot with awkward hand positions and much more tired hands, I decided to order the grip immediately. So I'd be curious why you felt it's better without.
> 
> Funny enough, for my sport shooting I have 2-3 regular assistant. The one I use most, after some 3-4 years of shooting with my gripped 5D4 and 1DX, last winter she came to me very excited "Tero! Did you know when you rotate camera to portrait, there's another shutter button on top!!!" Couldn't help but laugh.



As I age I'm beginning to pay for the sins of my past that put too much wear and tear on my right shoulder, which has begun to require that I use vertical controls when shooting in portrait mode.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

Chz said:


> Indeed. Hence my rant. Lol
> 
> Our European car prices are almost twice compare to the American market.



Isn't that mostly due to the oppressive taxes your government places on them to discourage folks from buying cars?


----------



## CvH (Jul 14, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Isn't that mostly due to the oppressive taxes your government places on them to discourage folks from buying cars?



Private cars are essential in Australia given the size of our country.

There is the luxury car tax but it will only apply when cars over A$77,565. 33% apply to the amount greater than $77.565. Still no where near why they are twice the car prices in America.









Luxury car tax rate and thresholds


Luxury car tax (LCT) rate and thresholds.




www.ato.gov.au


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> A One stop of improvement at high (Over 6400) ISO over R sensor is a pipe dream. That’s would be just crazy.



Like the 1D X Mark III, the DR improvement will be on the lower end.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

usern4cr said:


> No, you have to focus on the starting distance (which is difficult), the right step size (which is a guess), and the number of steps to do (which is a guess). And you can only *hope* that the bracket ends at a good spot. It's extremely frustrating! That's why I want to have the *added option* to focus on the middle of the bracket (eg. using eye AF or manual focus for the eye of a bug) and have that be the *middle* of the bracket. Then no matter what step size and #steps I choose, it will *always* get that eye in focus in the middle of the bracket. This seems so obvious, it's amazing that it's not already the way that it's implemented.



Aren't the eyes of most bugs the closest thing in the frame to the camera when you are facing the bug from its front?


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

Rideclick said:


> @Besisika Thank you! Very well put and agree with all of your points.
> 
> Has anyone heard if the naming convention is the same where you set 4characters then have a 4 digit image number? I've had shoots that have rolled the image number over. Not a big deal but a 5 digit image number one would put the cherry on top of this.
> 
> I think this is like they gave you your wish list camera.



There are menu options on most Canon xD and x0D EOS cameras to reset to "0001" manually or automatically when creating a new folder. If you create a new folder for each shoot and have it set to reset the Image Number with each new folder, you have 9999 frames to burn before the number rolls over.


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## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

Chz said:


> No, the discounted price also includes he bonus pack.








Preorder: Canon EOS R5, Canon EOS R6 and new lenses


When was the last time and which stores had store wide 30% discounts? I know 10% or 15% discounts from some local stores from time to time. April this year I think. In March I got the RF70-200mm for AUD3550 (regular ~AUD4200) but in April it had come down to AUD3300. Digidirect price matched...




www.canonrumors.com





"It was confirmed to me by Digidirect that Canon Australia was offering the spare battery and custom strap to them and provided the pricing to justify their AUD400 pre-order bundle. I am checking if an alternative reseller that is offering an adapter instead will also include the battery. I need the adapter, I don't need the battery or strap (or UHS-I card)"

"*EDIT: CameraPro says that Canon Australia have run out of their custom straps and resellers can no longer offer them for pre-orders. This confirms Canon's comment about pre-ordering numbers.* Camerapro will not guarantee sufficient quantities for the initial release if I order today. "


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> The pricing in the US can be more competitive than in other countries. Amazon Australia is nowhere near as good as Amazon US for instance and didn't even exist here until 2019
> 
> 5D3 at release from Canon = $4300 (all numbers in AUD) @2012
> 5D4 at release from canon = $5700. resellers = $5k @2016
> ...



I haven't bought a camera from amazon in at least eight years. But their price history will reflect the MSRP in the U.S., since they and all other authorized Canon dealers advertise Canon cameras and lenses at the MSRP, which is what camel-camel reports: the price displayed on listings from amazon and third party sellers at amazon. B&H, Adorama, amazon (sold directly by amazon), and Canon USA all have identical advertised prices on all current Canon products.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

tpatana said:


> Yes, but what happens in actuality when you try to use those cards and if they are too slow, does it mention it or do you get garbage?



They might work fine. They might tell you they won't work very well. They might make you think they're working well until you review your results after the fact. No one knows because they haven't tested them yet.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> The pricing in the US can be more competitive than in other countries



Pricing isn't competitive at all for Canon products from authorized Canon sellers in the U.S. They all have identical advertised/published pricing for all currently cataloged Canon products: the MSRP less any factory authorized "instant rebates" that all of them offer at the same time. They are allowed to advertise prices _higher_ than the MSRP, but not lower.


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## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

Graphic.Artifacts said:


> Marketing piece straight from Canon on the R5 entitled “the camera will shoot comfortably on high-end production sets” My inbox was full of this stuff for months. Canon built the hype up around the camera as a high end video production tool not me. You disagree . Fine. You should take it up with them. I’m only repeating what Canon has been saying for six months.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Sure, for B roll and stunts. Which never last more than few seconds or minutes at the most. Nowhere near twenty minutes!

You're also ignoring the fact that all high end production sets have multiple copies of each camera (and everything else they might need that can be supplied in duplicate) on hand.

From your link:

“With its ability to record in cinema industry-standard formats and codecs, the EOS R5 is an ideal lead camera for many productions but also, given its compatibility with cinema workflows, the camera will shoot comfortably on high-end production sets.”

_*Cinema workflows*_* on high-end production sets include multiple copies of each camera needed.*

But keep on insisting that Canon promised something that you'll obviously never need: a single camera to use as the exclusive, only camera on a high end production set of the kind that you've never been remotely near.


----------



## tpatana (Jul 14, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> As I age I'm beginning to pay for the sins of my past that put too much wear and tear on my right shoulder, which has begun to require that I use vertical controls when shooting in portrait mode.



Yea I can't think shooting much without grip. Occasionally like if I go late night drinking/people-watching, I might take grip off and slap some 35mm prime to make it look less worth for stealing. But almost always gripped.


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## korbar (Jul 14, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Sure, for B roll and stunts. Which never last more than few seconds or minutes at the most. Nowhere near twenty minutes!
> 
> You're also ignoring the fact that all high end production sets have multiple copies of each camera (and everything else they might need that can be supplied in duplicate) on hand.
> 
> ...




I've said it before and on other sites but goddamn am I stoked to see what some low budget fimmakers do with the ability to have 8K raw for doing visual effects and things. It's an incredibly powerful tool to have access to in this format.


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## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

Chz said:


> You haven’t answer my question whether you will be happy to pay A$1000 more. even considering the additional warranty.
> 
> I like to know which manufactures will cover water damages and user error under their warranty.



If whatever price I am required to pay for something is worth that much to my use case, I'd be willing to pay what it costs. If not, then I'll wait for the price and its value to me meet. I didn't upgrade from the 5D Mark III to the 5D Mark IV until the price dropped almost $1,000 from the initial MSRP and included a free BG-E20 grip.

What I have not done in the past and will not do regarding the EOS R5 is become so embittered about the price being higher than what I can afford or am willing to pay for it to the point that I let it dominate my every thought and I spend all of my time complaining about it on an internet forum to people who have ZERO control over how much it's going to cost me.


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## CvH (Jul 14, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Preorder: Canon EOS R5, Canon EOS R6 and new lenses
> 
> 
> When was the last time and which stores had store wide 30% discounts? I know 10% or 15% discounts from some local stores from time to time. April this year I think. In March I got the RF70-200mm for AUD3550 (regular ~AUD4200) but in April it had come down to AUD3300. Digidirect price matched...
> ...



That is my understanding too that Canon Australia offers the bonus pack but some suggested otherwise.

In addition to the bonus pack (incentive), most local stores have dropped over A$500 on the preorder price.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

Chz said:


> That is my understanding too that Canon Australia offers the bonus pack but some suggested otherwise.
> 
> In addition to the bonus pack (incentive), most local stores have dropped over A$500 on the preorder price.





David - Sydney said:


> It was confirmed to me by Digidirect that Canon Australia was offering the spare battery and custom strap to them and provided the pricing to justify their AUD400 pre-order bundle. I am checking if an alternative reseller that is offering an adapter instead will also include the battery. I need the adapter, I don't need the battery or strap (or UHS-I card)
> 
> EDIT: *CameraPro says that Canon Australia have run out of their custom straps and resellers can no longer offer them for pre-orders. This confirms Canon's comment about pre-ordering numbers.* Camerapro will not guarantee sufficient quantities for the initial release if I order today.


----------



## CvH (Jul 14, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> If whatever price I am required to pay for something is worth that much to my use case, I'd be willing to pay what it costs. If not, then I'll wait for the price and its value to me meet. I didn't upgrade from the 5D Mark III to the 5D Mark IV until the price dropped almost $1,000 from the initial MSRP.
> 
> What I have not done in the past and will not do regarding the EOS R5 is become so embittered about the price being higher than what I can afford or am willing to pay for it to the point that I let it dominate my every thought and I spend all of my time complaining about it on an internet forum to people who have ZERO control over how much it's going to cost me.



It isn’t about whether the R5 is meeting my use case or not, or whether I can afford it or not.

My point is price PARITY between America and Australia. Of course warranty variations should be included into the price. Therefore I have control how much I willing to pay by buying from overseas.


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## CvH (Jul 14, 2020)

The custom strap out of stock may or may not indicate that Canon Australia has reached its target preorder number. That’s your assumption. We don’t know how many straps were offered. 

It could also that most local stores offered over A$500 soon after the official announcement helped. No one will know.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

Chz said:


> It isn’t about whether the R5 is meeting my use case or not, or whether I can afford it or not.
> 
> My point is price PARITY between America and Australia. Of course warranty variations should be included into the price. Therefore I have control how much I willing to pay by buying from overseas.



How much it might cost to someone halfway around the world has no effect on my decision to buy or not buy anything. If it meets my needs for the price I have to pay, that's all I have upon which to base my decision. Buying overseas for me would mean risking having no warranty at all. I'm not willing to risk that on a single purchase that large. Perhaps if I were in the market for 100 units, the total savings would be enough to cover the cost of writing off one or two units that might be defective.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

Chz said:


> The custom strap out of stock may or may not indicate that Canon Australia has reached its target preorder number. That’s your assumption. We don’t know how many straps were offered.
> 
> It could also that most local stores offered over A$500 soon after the official announcement helped. No one will know.



That wasn't my assumption. That's a quote from what Camera Pro told David-Sydney.


----------



## Mike the cat (Jul 14, 2020)

David - Sydney said:


> I always thought that xK30/60/120fps were for slow mo in post production... or at least that is my usage but I am not a serious videographer. What scenarios would you want audio as well?



I'm no videographer yet. For me it'd be for slow mo rifle/pistol range at work. Working parts slapping forward and bangs in slow motion produce great results. I admit it's niche and not many folks would require it, but I can hope for audio in 1080 @120p at least.


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## Jonathan Thill (Jul 14, 2020)

Mike the cat said:


> I'm no videographer yet. For me it'd be for slow mo rifle/pistol range at work. Working parts slapping forward and bangs in slow motion produce great results. I admit it's niche and not many folks would require it, but I can hope for audio in 1080 @120p at least.



I record the audio separately using a digital recorder for slow motion gun fire. I find it easier to work with in post and safer for my gear not to be right on the firing line. Syncing slow motion video and audio is fun and easy.


----------



## CvH (Jul 14, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> How much it might cost to someone halfway around the world has no effect on my decision to buy or not buy anything. If it meets my needs for the price I have to pay, that's all I have upon which to base my decision. Buying overseas for me would mean risking having no warranty at all. I'm not willing to risk that on a single purchase that large. Perhaps if I were in the market for 100 units, the total savings would be enough to cover the cost of writing off one or two units that might be defective.



No one, at least not me arguing what your needs. I have no interest and it’s irrelevant to me. 

my discussion has always been price parity. My last word.


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## CvH (Jul 14, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> That wasn't my assumption. That's a quote from what Camera Pro told David-Sydney.



Sure. That’s a quote from 1 store. I guess you are more familiar than those who are living Australia.


----------



## sercheese (Jul 14, 2020)

sercheese said:


> Hello, is it true, that using Canon R6 with his 20 Mpx sensor will restrict the high resolution of RF lenses? I read that they are capable of even 100 Mpx. Than it would be better to choose R5 with his 45 Mpx. Of course I will not print big pictures but I thought that maybe after zooming in you will still have much more detail as while using R6?


Could someone please answer my question? It's important to me to choose between R5 and R6.


----------



## Gazwas (Jul 14, 2020)

Chz said:


> my discussion has always been price parity.


I really wouldn’t sweat it too much as comparing prices to the USA is never a good idea as they always get by far the best deals. And Oz like the UK have lots of red tape and tax that just adds to the cost of ever single thing we purchase.

I you want to hear my own horrific story of price parity, a few years ago when I wanted to upgarde my Phase One Back from a P65 to IQ260 (same CCD but different platform) I was quoted in the UK £14,000 + VAT however a dealer in the USA quoted me (after conversion) £8500.

*£5500! *difference for the exact same product.

Much bigger market to keep happy so they either get all the best deals to keep the gears turning or the dealers in the rest of the world are much greedier.


----------



## SecureGSM (Jul 14, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> How much it might cost to someone halfway around the world has no effect on my decision to buy or not buy anything. If it meets my needs for the price I have to pay, that's all I have upon which to base my decision. Buying overseas for me would mean risking having no warranty at all. I'm not willing to risk that on a single purchase that large. Perhaps if I were in the market for 100 units, the total savings would be enough to cover the cost of writing off one or two units that might be defective.


It’s all about options and possibilities. What would you say if R5 was priced at US$7,000.00 in US? That’s how we feel at times. Therefor a grey market product becoming more of a consideration for many in Australia.
A grey market product typically comes with a 12 month third party warranty. Typically an authorised Australian Canon repairer But engaged via a third party paid gig. Dollar notes are not hanging of trees in the land down under. We earn as much as some US folks in local currency. A$7,000.00 is quite a price to pay for many.


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## Chris.Chapterten (Jul 14, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> How much extra do you think we pay in the U.S. for the same extended warranty you get for nothing extra? Not to mention that we pay around 8-10% sales tax that is not included in the price because the sales tax rate varies from one locale (State/County/City/District) to the next.
> 
> For me to buy the R5 at $3,899 requires an additional $311.92 in sales tax from an out of state online dealer and an additional $350.91 in sales tax from a brick and mortar dealer in my tax district. It could be 10% ($389.90) or more in nearby large cities, which is the only place I'll find a retailer who actually sells EOS R5 cameras over a counter.
> 
> ...


I think this post clearly puts into perspective that the Australian price of the R5 is about right. Approx $6500 including taxes and a 5 year warranty is probably even slightly better than Parity... not much to complain about.... still wish it was cheaper though


----------



## SecureGSM (Jul 14, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Like the 1D X Mark III, the DR improvement will be on the lower end.
> 
> View attachment 191321


Wait a second. 1Dx III at ISO 12800 is at the same EV level as 5D4 at ISO6400? That’s a full stop of high ISO latitude advantage at 6400. Okaaay. I would like to see R5 curve. Overheating or not )


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## SecureGSM (Jul 14, 2020)

sercheese said:


> Could someone please answer my question? It's important to me to choose between R5 and R6.


Go R5, mate. No fear.


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## SecureGSM (Jul 14, 2020)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> I think this post clearly puts into perspective that the Australian price of the R5 is about right. Approx $6500 including taxes and a 5 year warranty is probably even slightly better than Parity... not much to complain about.... still wish it was cheaper though


The question remains: will that 5-year warranty cover a professional use scenario? I think I know the answer.


----------



## vjlex (Jul 14, 2020)

sercheese said:


> Could someone please answer my question? It's important to me to choose between R5 and R6.



I think this video might give you some idea of the resolution of the R5 compared to the R6





I also read (or heard) that the AA filter of the R5 is the same as the 1DX3, so it has the best resolution of any Canon sensor to date. The R6 doesn't have that same filter, so there are some differences in how the image is resolved compared to the R5 when you're pixel-peeping. Even if you're printing large, the R6 should be good enough though and I doubt there is any "restriction" on resolution of RF lens that you would have to worry about missing out on. But if you can afford it, I'd wager you'd definitely get more from the RF lens with the R5 than the R6.


----------



## vjlex (Jul 14, 2020)

I just had a chance to play with the R5 (and R6, but I only played with the R5). My initial impressions:

It's smaller than I expected. Not in a bad way. Just coming off of the 5D4, I'm going to miss its weight and that balanced feeling I got with those heavy lenses attached. The R5 feels much more like the R- there's a noticeable weight disparity between the lens and body to me. Again, that's not a criticism, just an observation.

As for the functionality- the continuous highspeed shutter is insane! It's not something I imagine I'll need very much, but wow! I really hope sports shooters and birders are happy with it. As far as blackout, I haven't shot that much with the R, so I don't really remember what it was like. With the R5, it's not a blackout per se, and not exactly an afterimage. But it does have a very very slight delay with each exposure taken. It's not completely smooth, but I don't think it's like the R. I think it's still great for tracking fast moving objects.

The autofocus works like a dream. Unfortunately, I could only use it for about 15 minutes and was tethered to the stand in the store, but I really can't wait to take this out into the field.

The menu was easy to navigate (I knew where everything was, except for maybe some of the new features). I couldn't figure out how to switch to video settings unfortunately, so I'll have to figure that out when my own arrives.

Anyway, those were just some of my initial impressions. I also checked the GPS settings menu. It's exactly the same as the R's offering- not built in, it just gives you the option to connect to a GPS device or smartphone (via Canon Connect App). And for anyone else who might care, once again the Japanese version of this body only offers English and Japanese (instead of the 27 other languages that should be available in the other versions of this body).


----------



## usern4cr (Jul 14, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Aren't the eyes of most bugs the closest thing in the frame to the camera when you are facing the bug from its front?


Not always, and you're not always facing them from the front. And I mention the eye of the bugs only as an example for ease of understanding. Most times for general objects I want to set focus where I get the best desired image (without an eye) and I'd just like the camera to take more exposures at +/- that distance to ensure a greater depth of field. The key to my statement is *+/-* and not just +.


----------



## Mike the cat (Jul 14, 2020)

Ramage said:


> I record the audio separately using a digital recorder for slow motion gun fire. I find it easier to work with in post and safer for my gear not to be right on the firing line. Syncing slow motion video and audio is fun and easy.



Truth be told, it's not something I HAVE done yet, rather something I plan to do. In the BTS shoots I've seen on youtube, the camera guy is carrying his camera with a 'dead cat' mic attached and following the shooter. Good to know there are other options though, so thank you. What model digital recorder do you use, if you don't mind me asking? Does it attach to the hotshoe and how does it compare to a dead cat?


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jul 14, 2020)

sercheese said:


> Hello, is it true, that using Canon R6 with his 20 Mpx sensor will restrict the high resolution of RF lenses? I read that they are capable of even 100 Mpx. Than it would be better to choose R5 with his 45 Mpx. Of course I will not print big pictures but I thought that maybe after zooming in you will still have much more detail as while using R6?



Yes, 20mp sensor will have less resolution even if you compare it to the 45mp sensor image downsampled to 20mp. How optics work, by increasing the sensor resolution you always increase the resulting image resolution even with an unsharp lens.
As a reference without complex math https://photo.stackexchange.com/que...ra-sensor-or-the-lens-the-limit-to-resolution

Also 45mp will give much more room for cropping. So if resolution is important to you, chose the R5, but it comes at a higher price.


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Jul 14, 2020)

shunsai said:


> Anyway, those were just some of my initial impressions. I also checked the GPS settings menu. It's exactly the same as the R's offering- not built in, it just gives you the option to connect to a GPS device or smartphone (via Canon Connect App).



Thanks for posting that. Do you know if camera connect app needs to be run in the foreground in order to send GPS updates to the camera? With remote shooting with 5DIV for example, it disconnects as soon as it's not in the foreground.


----------



## Trinitytrue (Jul 14, 2020)

Does the shotgun mic pickup af sound from rf 28-70mm f2 ? Can anyone give insight? In body mic pickup so far i've seen


----------



## vjlex (Jul 14, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Thanks for posting that. Do you know if camera connect app needs to be run in the foreground in order to send GPS updates to the camera? With remote shooting with 5DIV for example, it disconnects as soon as it's not in the foreground.


I didn't have a chance to try connecting the camera to my phone. But someone with an R should hopefully be able to check and answer.

Yeah, I had that experience when remote shooting with my 5D4 too. Honestly, I kinda hate the Canon Connect App. I'm wondering if there is an alternative app or if Canon will overhaul it. I'm glad that there is some GPS option, I just hate that it relies on my smartphone's battery and the clunky Canon Connect. This will be my first Bluetooth Canon camera. Hopefully connecting to the app through Bluetooth will be more reliable than it's been for me connecting through wifi.


----------



## CvH (Jul 14, 2020)

shunsai said:


> As for the functionality- the continuous highspeed shutter is insane! It's not something I imagine I'll need very much, but wow! I really hope sports shooters and birders are happy with it. As far as blackout, I haven't shot that much with the R, so I don't really remember what it was like. With the R5, it's not a blackout per se, and not exactly an afterimage. But it does have a very very slight delay with each exposure taken. It's not completely smooth, but I don't think it's like the R. I think it's still great for tracking fast moving objects.



Thank you for sharing your thoughts! My main concern is the EVF blackout. Sounds like Canon may be addressed it. On the R us terrible. I will have to test it myself.


----------



## sercheese (Jul 14, 2020)

It's interesting that my old Canon 50d had 15 Mpx, a big wheel at the back, a joystick and an LCD screen at the top. Ok, it had only 9 AF points and not the best ISO. But at the first glimpse, there aint much of improvement since 2008


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

Chz said:


> No one, at least not me arguing what your needs. I have no interest and it’s irrelevant to me.
> 
> my discussion has always been price parity. My last word.



What makes you think there should be price parity between the same product produced in one country and sold in two other countries halfway around the globe from one another with differing tax structures (import duties/income/sales), consumer protections, and economic conditions?


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

Chz said:


> Sure. That’s a quote from 1 store. I guess you are more familiar than those who are living Australia.



Nope. That's why I deferred to the expertise of someone who lives in Australia who doesn't seem to think a corporation in Japan owes them a camera for the price they're charging others in a different country with differing import duties, tax structures, populations/sales numbers, and other various economic considerations.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> It’s all about options and possibilities. What would you say if R5 was priced at US$7,000.00 in US? That’s how we feel at times. Therefor a grey market product becoming more of a consideration for many in Australia.
> A grey market product typically comes with a 12 month third party warranty. Typically an authorised Australian Canon repairer But engaged via a third party paid gig. Dollar notes are not hanging of trees in the land down under. We earn as much as some US folks in local currency. A$7,000.00 is quite a price to pay for many.



Not many in the U.S. can afford $7,000 (or $3,899) for a camera, either. But there are 360 million people living in the U.S. There are 25 million people living in Australia. Add another 5 million if New Zealand is also served by Canon AUS..

Size of market makes a difference.

The overhead cost for keeping Canon AUS in business must be borne by 1/14 as many potential buyers compared to the overhead cost of running Canon USA. Taxes are different. The level of government services are different. Consumer protections are different. The cost of shipping in a country as large as Australia but with low population density and large areas with very little human habitation will be higher. Other economic considerations we don't even know about may also come into play.

You can't expect a grape to taste like a plum. They look similar. But they're two entirely different fruits (which may have common genetic ancestors) with two very different internal structures due to their significant difference in size.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

Gazwas said:


> I really wouldn’t sweat it too much as comparing prices to the USA is never a good idea as they always get by far the best deals. And Oz like the UK have lots of red tape and tax that just adds to the cost of ever single thing we purchase.
> 
> I you want to hear my own horrific story of price parity, a few years ago when I wanted to upgarde my Phase One Back from a P65 to IQ260 (same CCD but different platform) I was quoted in the UK £14,000 + VAT however a dealer in the USA quoted me (after conversion) £8500.
> 
> ...



Or there's much less hidden cost of government greed included as well?


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> Wait a second. 1Dx III at ISO 12800 is at the same EV level as 5D4 at ISO6400? That’s a full stop of high ISO latitude advantage at 6400. Okaaay. I would like to see R5 curve. Overheating or not )



Compared to the 30MP 5D Mark IV it does. Compared to the more similar 20MP 1D X Mark II it does not. R5 is 45MP, and will probably have higher DR at ISO 100 with the curve gradually hitting the same levels as the 5D Mark IV as ISO increases. 

But no one knows for sure until several independent labs have tested it. (Note that the original published results by DxO Labs for the 1D X Mark III were shown to be in gross error and had to be replaced. (Someone apparently shifted the entire matrix of numbers by one stop when doing the data entry of the raw measurements.)


----------



## SecureGSM (Jul 14, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Not many in the U.S. can afford $7,000 (or $3,899) for a camera, either. But there are 360 million people living in the U.S. There are 25 million people living in Australia. Add another 5 million if New Zealand is also served by Canon AUS..
> 
> Size of market makes a difference.
> 
> ...


Hey, Michael. Let me explain: Australian population Is pretty much concentrated along our eastern shores. Not evenly distributed Across the land mass. cost of distribution is quite low. So not the case. Import duties on cameras: none pretty much. There is 10% GST. That’s all. it’s the profit margins that they are chasing. And it is pretty high in this instance. And why not to milk Aussies a bit while they can? Guess what.. we are not stupid here.


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## Michael Clark (Jul 14, 2020)

SecureGSM said:


> Hey, Michael. Let me explain: Australian population Is pretty much concentrated along our eastern shores. Not evenly distributed Across the land mass. cost of distribution is quite low. So not the case. Import duties on cameras: none pretty much. There is 10% GST. That’s all. it’s the profit margins that they are chasing. And it is pretty high in this instance. And why not to milk Aussies a bit while they can? Guess what.. we are not stupid here.



If y'all are so much smarter than us ignorant yanks, then grow an economy with a GDP of $21.5T (USD) instead of $1.5T (USD) and see how that affects prices of imported cameras. We've got plenty of stupid folks here, including most of the ones that run our government, and yet we still seem to do OK in the long run.


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## SecureGSM (Jul 14, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> If y'all are so much smarter than us ignorant yanks, then grow an economy with a GDP of $21.5T (USD) instead of $1.5T (USD) and see how that affects prices of imported cameras. We've got plenty of stupid folks here, including most of the ones that run our government, and yet we still seem to do OK in the long run.


a share of GDP per each citizen of Australia in AUD, (local prices are not always USD bound, of course), is higher than the same in US. We are doing OK In general. however My point is: AUD$7,000 to pay for R5 is a difficult price to stomach
it is what it is though. There is always a plan B


----------



## tpatana (Jul 14, 2020)

sercheese said:


> It's interesting that my old Canon 50d had 15 Mpx, a big wheel at the back, a joystick and an LCD screen at the top. Ok, it had only 9 AF points and not the best ISO. But at the first glimpse, there aint much of improvement since 2008



Lol is that the best troll you can say, R5 aint much improvement from 50d


----------



## CvH (Jul 15, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Nope. That's why I deferred to the expertise of someone who lives in Australia who doesn't seem to think a corporation in Japan owes them a camera for the price they're charging others in a different country with differing import duties, tax structures, populations/sales numbers, and other various economic considerations.



What was the 5D4 RRP when it was released in US? The 5D4 RRP was about A$5000 in 
Australia. R5 A$7000. That’s approximately 30% increased.


----------



## Kit Lens Jockey (Jul 15, 2020)

Just got an email from Amazon saying my R5 (body only) is expected to arrive Aug 11 - Sep 3. Ugh! Wanted to use Amazon for the 5% cash back, don't have the B+H card.

But, I'm kind of hoping they are sandbagging on the arrival date like they do with a lot of their orders. I pre-ordered it right after I watched the premiere video on the morning they announced it. Also, doesn't it seem a little soon after the announcement and a little far away from the release date for them to be able to say with any accuracy when mine would get here, especially if it's not in the "first batch" as the email suggests?


----------



## tpatana (Jul 15, 2020)

So I can use the old batteries from 5D4, right? I have LP-E6 and LP-E6N. R5 had LP-E6NH, so aside older and less capacity, it should work?

Do the chargers also work either way, meaning I can use old charger to charge the E6NH and the new charger to charge old E6 battery?


----------



## vjlex (Jul 15, 2020)

tpatana said:


> So I can use the old batteries from 5D4, right? I have LP-E6 and LP-E6N. R5 had LP-E6NH, so aside older and less capacity, it should work?
> 
> Do the chargers also work either way, meaning I can use old charger to charge the E6NH and the new charger to charge old E6 battery?



Yup. LP-E6 originals work in the R5 and the original LC-E6 charger are said to work with the LP-E6NH. The charger hasn't changed; it's still LC-E6. Backward and forward compatible.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 15, 2020)

Chz said:


> What was the 5D4 RRP when it was released in US? The 5D4 RRP was about A$5000 in
> Australia. R5 A$7000. That’s approximately 30% increased.



The MSRP of the 5D Mark IV was $3,499 USD when introduced in 2016, the same as the 5D Mark III in 2012. 

At that time most of us did not get charged for sales taxes when ordering from out of state retailers with no presence in the state to which the camera would be shipped. That is now no longer the case, as most states have finally caught up to the internet revolution and force out of state retailers to collect sales taxes on items shipped to their states. A U.S. Supreme Court ruling that was handed down about three years ago gave the states the authority to do so.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 15, 2020)

tpatana said:


> So I can use the old batteries from 5D4, right? I have LP-E6 and LP-E6N. R5 had LP-E6NH, so aside older and less capacity, it should work?
> 
> Do the chargers also work either way, meaning I can use old charger to charge the E6NH and the new charger to charge old E6 battery?






shunsai said:


> Yup. LP-E6 originals work in the R5 and the original LC-E6 charger are said to work with the LP-E6NH. The charger hasn't changed; it's still LC-E6. Backward and forward compatible.



Maybe.

When Canon SILENTLY updated the battery protocol in around 2013 (the 7D Mark II in late 2014 and 5D Mark IV in early 2016 where the first models that shipped with the updated protocol as well as the slightly higher capacity LP-E6N, but the 5D Mark III also rejects full communication with older third party batteries if the firmware is version 1.2.3 released in August 2013 or later), they also made a "silent" change to the LC-E6 charger that refused to recognIze or charge some older LP-E6 batteries as genuine Canon batteries, even though they were genuine Canon batteries. Ooops!

Canon issued an advisory about it at the time. My LC-E6 chargers that came with a 5D Mark II and 7D will charge all of my third party LP-E6 clones. The LC-E6 charger that came with my 7D Mark II will not charge my older third party clones made before about 2014. I've never even taken the LC-E6 charger that came with my 5D Mark IV out of the box to try it.

If you still have any LP-E6 batteries from around 2012 or before, the new chargers made after 2014 might not accept them. It's fairly easy to use a third party charger to charge all of them, though. The Pawa charger that comes with two Pawa batteries from B&H works on every LP-E6 variant, both from Canon and several third parties (STK, Maximal Power, Watson), that I have.


----------



## tpatana (Jul 15, 2020)

My 5D4 charger accepts both E6N and the old E6. All genuine Canon.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 15, 2020)

tpatana said:


> My 5D4 charger accepts both E6N and the old E6. All genuine Canon.



It was only some of the oldest LP-E6 batteries that were affected, not all of them.

Who's to say Canon doesn't activate "LP-E6 battery protocol IIIc" with the chargers supplied with the R5 and R6 that is supposed to work with all previous LP-E6 batteries but there's another glitch like back in 2013?


----------



## CvH (Jul 15, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> The MSRP of the 5D Mark IV was $3,499 USD when introduced in 2016, the same as the 5D Mark III in 2012.
> 
> At that time most of us did not get charged for sales taxes when ordering from out of state retailers with no presence in the state to which the camera would be shipped. That is now no longer the case, as most states have finally caught up to the internet revolution and force out of state retailers to collect sales taxes on items shipped to their states. A U.S. Supreme Court ruling that was handed down about three years ago gave the states the authority to do so.



Ignoring the tax, what is the percentage increase from the 5D4 to the R5 in US? About 10%!!! JUST $300 more than the 5D4.

What do think if the R5 RRP is $4500 instead of $3900. An increase of 30% over the 5D4. That's just $1000 more from the 5D4. Where it's A$2000 over the 5D4 0in Australia.

Another word, an increase of $300 from the 5D4 to the R5 in US. But A$2000 increase from the 5D4 to the R5 in Australia.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 15, 2020)

Chz said:


> Ignoring the tax, what is the percentage increase from the 5D4 to the R5 in US? About 10%!!! JUST $300 more than the 5D4.
> 
> What do think if the R5 RRP is $4500 instead of $3900. An increase of 30% over the 5D4. That's just $1000 more from the 5D4. Where it's A$2000 over the 5D4 0in Australia.
> 
> Another word, an increase of $300 from the 5D4 to the R5 in US. But A$2000 increase from the 5D4 to the R5 in Australia.



$3,499 to $3,899 is $400, not $300. That's an 11.4% increase.

My out of pocket expense for a 5D Mark IV ordered from B&H (or anyone else not located in my home state - where I doubt anyone actually stocked the 5D Mark IV) in 2016 would have been $3,499.

My out of pocket expense for an R5 ordered from any out of state retailer now would be $4,211.

That's $712 more, or a 20.3% increase.

If I'm willing and able to pay it, I'll buy it regardless of whether an R5 costs you $10,000 AUS or $1000 AUS.

For your own good, please stop obsessing about the idea that someone somewhere halfway around the world may be getting a better deal than you!

It only affects your mental state, not ours.


----------



## CvH (Jul 15, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> $3,499 to $3,899 is $400, not $300. That's an 11.4% increase.
> 
> My out of pocket expense for a 5D Mark IV ordered from B&H (or anyone else not located in my home state - where I doubt anyone actually stocked the 5D Mark IV) in 2016 would have been $3,499.
> 
> ...



It's a global market. I have bought many stuff from B&H. The lost is Canon Australia and the local stores. 

I was just making a point about price parity. It's you that kept arguing somethings that were irrelevant to my point. Lol

May be you are retired and enjoy engaging other's comments that have no relevant to your need.

How about you stop interact with my comments?


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 15, 2020)

sercheese said:


> It's interesting that my old Canon 50d had 15 Mpx, a big wheel at the back, a joystick and an LCD screen at the top. Ok, it had only 9 AF points and not the best ISO. But at the first glimpse, there aint much of improvement since 2008
> View attachment 191332



The 50D was my second DSLR and first non-Rebel DSLR. It's the camera with which I really learned how to shoot digital after having shot film for 30 years, though I didn't do much photography from 1995 until around 2005 when I bought my first digital compact.

I still have the 50D, though I haven't used it much at all since buying a 5D Mark II in 2011 and then a 7D in 2012.

It still looks much newer than any of my subsequent bodies (5DII, 7D, 5DIII, 7DII, and 5D IV).

There are only 31,659 clicks on it. That was probably more frames than I shot in 30 years of film, though.

My 7D II currently has over 135,000 shutter actuations, the 5D II has 70,000+, the 5D III has 77,000+, and the 5D IV already has 14,000 in just over a year. That's with practically no use since March. The 7D is on long term loan to the art/photography department of a local high school so I have no idea how many clicks are now on it.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 15, 2020)

Chz said:


> It's a global market. I have bought many stuff from B&H. The lost is Canon Australia and the local stores.
> 
> I was just making a point about price parity. It's you that kept arguing somethings that were irrelevant to my point. Lol
> 
> ...



You still haven't answered my question as to why you think there *has to be* price parity between two different markets halfway around the world from one another with different tax structures, consumer protection laws, etc.


----------



## CvH (Jul 15, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> You still haven't answered my question as to why you think there *has to be* price parity between two different markets halfway around the world from one another with different tax structures, consumer protection laws, etc.



I did. Global market. Many local businesses closed their doors as they couldn't compete with overseas markets.

People making their purchase decision do take other factors into consideration; warranty, local support etc.

You also haven't answer my question. Why the R5 only goes up 20% in US but 40% in Australia? Don't give me the lame consumer protection reason etc. As the law has not change for years.


----------



## vjlex (Jul 15, 2020)

Good news (maybe) for anyone who ordered from B&H. I'm told that, while my place on the list couldn't be divulged, it seems as if there is more than enough to fulfill their orders with the initial shipment. Grain of salt and all that. 16 days and counting!


----------



## JoTomOz (Jul 15, 2020)

tpatana said:


> My current normal sports event is 1dx and ef 70-200 F2.8, for some 8 hours (with breaks). Assuming the body and lens ergonomics allow for proper arm position, I'm not too worried.
> 
> I haven't used one though. Those who have, can you comment on size compared to e.g. Sigma 85/1.4 ?



at first it is big, but you get used to it. Have had it for about 6 months. To be honest though, I’m not someone who has an issue carrying heavy gear. Its not like I lift weights or anything- it just gets easier over time. For extended/ intensive shooting a grip is essential I reckon and makes it easier. The flexibility it offers, not needing to change lenses and still having f2 is worth it to me. I used to change between the non L primes all the time- love leaving the house with one lens more often, and catch way more shots as a result. I’ll be honest though it doesnt always come with me, sometimes I’ll just take a 35mm and that’s it.

am really excited by the 8 stop ibis rating for this lens with the r5/6 for handheld night (urban) photography- didn’t realise even though it doesn’t have lens based IS it has the gyro sensors that I guess help it in that department.


----------



## tpatana (Jul 15, 2020)

Chz said:


> I did. Global market. Many local businesses closed their doors as they couldn't compete with overseas markets.
> 
> People making their purchase decision do take other factors into consideration; warranty, local support etc.
> 
> You also haven't answer my question. Why the R5 only goes up 20% in US but 40% in Australia? Don't give me the lame consumer protection reason etc. As the law has not change for years.



Don't be salty. Enjoy good camera.

There's hundreds of reasons why different things cost different amount in other regions. If you can buy online from other region, good for you as you have option for local price or international price. When I moved to Usa, the car I bought was $36k. Exactly same car in Finland (where I used to live) was about $100k. At the time fuel/gas in Usa was around $2.5-3/gallon, in Finland it was around $10-12/gallon. I just filed my US taxes few days ago, my final tax rate was about 16.5%. For the same income in Finland I would have paid some 50-60%. You know what big things you get for free (as in paid in taxes) in Finland? Health care, education, even housing and food if you don't have money for those.

Try to guess how many here would happily pay $1000 extra for R5 if in exchange they get free health care?

So stop being childish about the prices around the world and comparing who gets what cheaper. Every country and situation is different, even in "global market". Go get your camera and enjoy photography. If you have gripes about your country (tax)policies, this forum is not correct place to complain.


----------



## tpatana (Jul 15, 2020)

JoTomOz said:


> at first it is big, but you get used to it. Have had it for about 6 months. To be honest though, I’m not someone who has an issue carrying heavy gear. Its not like I lift weights or anything- it just gets easier over time. For extended/ intensive shooting a grip is essential I reckon and makes it easier. The flexibility it offers, not needing to change lenses and still having f2 is worth it to me. I used to change between the non L primes all the time- love leaving the house with one lens more often, and catch way more shots as a result. I’ll be honest though it doesnt always come with me, sometimes I’ll just take a 35mm and that’s it.
> 
> am really excited by the 8 stop ibis rating for this lens with the r5/6 for handheld night (urban) photography- didn’t realise even though it doesn’t have lens based IS it has the gyro sensors that I guess help it in that department.



Yea I'm pretty much sold on the 28-70, can't really see reason why I wouldn't buy one (other than if wife sees how much it costs... need to ask the retailed to put some $500 sticker on the lens when it arrives...)


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## Michael Clark (Jul 15, 2020)

Chz said:


> You also haven't answer my question. Why the R5 only goes up 20% in US but 40% in Australia? Don't give me the lame consumer protection reason etc. As the law has not change for years.



I have already answered that, several times:

Market conditions. This includes (but is not limited to):

Size of market
Location of market
Tax structure of market
"Local" economic condition of market
Consumer protection laws in market
Expectations of consumers within the market
Other factors that affect the cost per unit to sell in market
Price point at which projected sales maximize total profit for market
Pricing strategy between setting "standard" price higher than expected "street" price
Numbers of real "local" brick and mortar retailers vs. a few brick and mortar storefronts for what are essentially online sellers
Etc.

You or one of your fellow Australians have already pointed out that the average buying power of an Australian resident is higher than the average buying power of the average United States resident (e.g. the GDP/capita is higher in AUS than in USA).

When all of these factors are taken into account, why wouldn't Canon charge more?

If it a) costs them more to sell an R5 there and/or b) they think they can sell enough bodies at the higher price to make a higher total profit than selling a few more bodies for a much lower price and/or c) They intentionally set the RRP higher than they know the camera will actually sell for to make everyone think they are getting a "deal" at "only" $6000 AUS why wouldn't they set the price where they project it will maximize their profits? I'm sure they've done the same in the United States (set the price at the point they think will maximize TOTAL profits).

You mention not supporting local retailers in Australia. In the U.S., almost all such local retailers have gone the way of the Dodo Bird. There are a very few left in some, but far from all, of the largest cities. For the most part the "camera store" as we once knew it has disappeared from the American landscape. They couldn't compete with the big box electronics or discount stores on the low end (Best Buy, Walmart, etc.) nor with the massive online sellers (B&H, Adorama, etc) on the high end.


----------



## CvH (Jul 16, 2020)

tpatana said:


> Don't be salty. Enjoy good camera.
> 
> There's hundreds of reasons why different things cost different amount in other regions. If you can buy online from other region, good for you as you have option for local price or international price. When I moved to Usa, the car I bought was $36k. Exactly same car in Finland (where I used to live) was about $100k. At the time fuel/gas in Usa was around $2.5-3/gallon, in Finland it was around $10-12/gallon. I just filed my US taxes few days ago, my final tax rate was about 16.5%. For the same income in Finland I would have paid some 50-60%. You know what big things you get for free (as in paid in taxes) in Finland? Health care, education, even housing and food if you don't have money for those.
> 
> ...



I know and completely understand about the better health care etc etc etc. And no issue paying more.

Like a few other, you completely missed my point. I explicitly refer to the increase from the 5D4 to R5. Let see if you able to explain why: *********** The R5 only goes up 20% in US but 40% in Australia?


----------



## CvH (Jul 16, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> I have already answered that, several times:
> 
> Market conditions. This includes (but is not limited to):
> 
> ...



WRONG! The tax, consumer protection law and size of the Australian market etc. have not changed for the last 10 years in regards to camera equipments. 

The 5D4 RRP in USA was $3499 and A$5000. The exchange rate was about the same as what it is now. SO all your reasons above have not changed at least for 10 years if not more.

Like I said from my previous post. Don’t use those reasons as they are NOT the factors that the R5 RRP goes up 40% in Australia.

By setting the price a lot higher than some overseas markets will encourage potential buys getting the R5 from overseas. It will be Canon Australia's lost.

My last words as you seem to continue to missed my point.


----------



## tpatana (Jul 16, 2020)

Chz said:


> I know and completely understand about the better health care etc etc etc. And no issue paying more.
> 
> Like a few other, you completely missed my point. I explicitly refer to the increase from the 5D4 to R5. Let see if you able to explain why: *********** The R5 only goes up 20% in US but 40% in Australia?



Ok, I'll explain why: The DSLR sales are still strong enough in Australia and Sony/Nikon mirrorless is not penetrating enough, so Canon thinks they don't need to compete as aggressively with the R5 price and instead they can get higher profit margin.

So to fix that, you need to go buy Sony A9III to send message to Canon that they are losing the battle.


----------



## CvH (Jul 16, 2020)

tpatana said:


> Ok, I'll explain why: The DSLR sales are still strong enough in Australia and Sony/Nikon mirrorless is not penetrating enough, so Canon thinks they don't need to compete as aggressively with the R5 price and instead they can get higher profit margin.
> 
> So to fix that, you need to go buy Sony A9III to send message to Canon that they are losing the battle.



Sure. You work for Canon Australia and knew their DSLR & Mirrorless sale numbers and their marketing strategies. . You also have insight sell volumes from Sony & Nikon. Or just speculative without any facts?

It makes perfect sense to you that Canon Australia raises the R5 RRP so high (40%) that potential buyers are likely to buy them from overseas markets.

P.S. There were many complaining the price hike on the Canon Australia and Collective Facebook pages.


----------



## tpatana (Jul 16, 2020)

Chz said:


> Sure. You work for Canon Australia and knew their DSLR & Mirrorless sale numbers and their marketing strategies. . You also have insight sell volumes from Sony & Nikon. Or just speculative without any facts?
> 
> It makes perfect sense to you that Canon Australia raises the R5 RRP so high (40%) that potential buyers are likely to buy them from overseas markets.
> 
> P.S. There were many complaining the price hike on the Canon Australia and Collective Facebook pages.



No, I work for xbox but that's the best explanation I can guess.

I still don't understand why you keep asking about this though. Try to thing it objectively, someone else is looking at some product release and goes ranting day after day "I don't like how much this thing X costs, I demand to know why it's so high!"

Especially that part "It's too high, I'll order online from international shipper".

Is there any other response to that than "ok".

You have option to do that, so I don't know what's your complain.

Another thing I don't understand is that why I'm wasting my time responding to you since clearly you're not even trying to understand.


----------



## CvH (Jul 16, 2020)

tpatana said:


> No, I work for xbox but that's the best explanation I can guess.
> 
> I still don't understand why you keep asking about this though. Try to thing it objectively, someone else is looking at some product release and goes ranting day after day "I don't like how much this thing X costs, I demand to know why it's so high!"
> 
> ...



I questioned people like you that didn’t know/understand the local market, tax structure and consumer law etc. that kept tell me that these are the contributing factors. And made speculative assumptions that those are the reason why the 40% price hike in Australia.

Agree. I wondered why you bother given you did not have the facts but kept trying to convince me those speculative assumptions.


----------



## tpatana (Jul 16, 2020)

Chz said:


> I questioned people like you that didn’t know/understand the local market, tax structure and consumer law etc. that kept tell me that these are the contributing factors. And made speculative assumptions that those are the reason why the 40% price hike in Australia.
> 
> Agree. I wondered why you bother given you did not have the facts but kept trying to convince me those speculative assumptions.



Consumer law? Pretty sure it states that the companies can set the prices.

Not sure why you so mad about this. Just go out to shoot pictures, enjoy life.


----------



## CvH (Jul 16, 2020)

tpatana said:


> Consumer law? Pretty sure it states that the companies can set the prices.
> 
> Not sure why you so mad about this. Just go out to shoot pictures, enjoy life.



let’s agree to disagree.

I wish I can go out to photograph. Melbourne is in the middle of second wave and we are in the middle of a 6 weeks lockdown. The lockdown will extend or further restrictions if the COVID situation isn’t under control.

I am glad that I am still have a job and can work from home.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 16, 2020)

Chz said:


> WRONG! The tax, consumer protection law and size of the Australian market etc. have not changed for the last 10 years in regards to camera equipments.
> 
> The 5D4 RRP in USA was $3499 and A$5000. The exchange rate was about the same as what it is now. SO all your reasons above have not changed at least for 10 years if not more.
> 
> ...



Economic conditions in every market are constantly changing. Just because your tax structure has not changed, nor your consumer protection laws, does not mean any of a near countless other numbers of variables aren't constantly shifting. Money supply. Unemployment. The size of government subsidies. The actual amount of taxes collected will change even when the rates do not as economic activity increases or decreases. The real cost to Canon for providing legislatively required consumer warranties can go up, even if the wording of the regulation itself does not change. Perhaps the new designs are more labor intensive to perform a similar repair than with previous models? Perhaps the technicians are more capable of being fast and efficient with DSLRs that they have been repairing for decades than they are with new mirrorless designs? Perhaps some of Canon's locally sourced parts suppliers are no longer in business and the replacement suppliers cost more?

Economic conditions in one market won't necessarily be mirrored in other markets. Some markets will have better conditions at the same time other markets have deteriorating conditions. Or one market may be slightly worse while another is in intense crisis. Things may be bad in Australia right now, due to the SARS-CoV-2 virus, but are your major cities also having nightly riots in the streets? Even with a global economy, there are still differences from one marketplace to the next, just as different stock indices do not move in unison. Some days the NASDAQ may be up when the Dow Jones is down. Or the Nikkei will be up in Tokyo while the FTSE (footsie) is down in London. They do tend to move in the same direction over longer periods of time, but not always. In the late 1990s tech stocks plunged at a time everything else rose (because everyone was trying to pull their money out of vastly overvalued tech stocks and put it into more traditionally stable stocks such as transportation or utilities).

All of that notwithstanding, at the end of the day Canon will price the same item in each market for whatever price they think will give them the most PROFIT in that market. If they think they can make more profit selling 10,000 cameras for a wholesale price that translates to $7,000 retail than they can make selling 10,800 bodies for a wholesale price that translates to $6,000 retail, then which price do you think they will set for the camera? If an individual retailer then decides to discount that price of $7000 because they think they can make more profit selling 30 cameras for $6,400 than they can selling 20 cameras for $7,000, then they'll do what is in their best interest.


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 16, 2020)

Chz said:


> I questioned people like you that didn’t know/understand the local market, tax structure and consumer law etc. that kept tell me that these are the contributing factors. And made speculative assumptions that those are the reason why the 40% price hike in Australia.
> 
> Agree. I wondered why you bother given you did not have the facts but kept trying to convince me those speculative assumptions.



So if you know so much more about it than we do, why do you keep asking us why Canon set the price of the R5 where it did in Australia?

Why don't you tell us?

I'm beginning to think the only answer you'll possibly accept is that they did so specifically and exclusively to piss you off!


----------



## Michael Clark (Jul 16, 2020)

Chz said:


> I questioned people like you that didn’t know/understand the local market, tax structure and consumer law etc. that kept tell me that these are the contributing factors. And made speculative assumptions that those are the reason why the 40% price hike in Australia.
> 
> Agree. I wondered why you bother given you did not have the facts but kept trying to convince me those speculative assumptions.



It couldn't possibly have anything at all to do with the difference in the exchange rate between the AUD and JPY in late 2015 when the price for the 5D Mark IV was likely being set and in March of 2020 when the price of the R5 was possibly being set, could it?




In late December 2015 one AUD bought around 90 yen.

In mid-March 2020 one AUD bought around 65 yen.

In March 2020 it took 139 AUD to buy the same number of yen it took 100 AUD to buy in December 2015.

That just happens to be a 40% difference.

Hmmm. Where have we seen that number recently?




In contrast, the difference in the value of the USD vs. the JPY compared over the same two time periods (122 vs.107) was about 14%.

Hmmmmmm.


----------



## CvH (Jul 16, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> It couldn't possibly have anything at all to do with the difference in the exchange rate between the AUD and JPY in late 2015 when the price for the 5D Mark IV was likely being set and in March of 2020 when the price of the R5 was possibly being set, could it?
> 
> View attachment 191366
> 
> ...



Feel free to have your last words as this will my last reply to your never ending justifications.

I am not going to waste my time. Enjoy your interaction with every comments from others as it seems you prefer to enjoy your spare time rather than take your camera out and make some photos.


----------



## tpatana (Jul 16, 2020)

Chz said:


> Feel free to have your last words as this will my last reply to your never ending justifications.
> 
> I am not going to waste my time. Enjoy your interaction with every comments from others as it seems you prefer to enjoy your spare time rather than take your camera out and make some photos.



We tried to give you lot of good answers, but you reject them all with very hostile attitude without giving any reasonable explanation why you don't like our answers. So mostly you've been wasting our time.

That currency exchange ratio looks quite convincing too, so most likely that was the reason.

I'm sure they changed the exchange ratio just to make it harder for you to buy R5.


----------



## glofo (Jul 16, 2020)

shunsai said:


> Good news (maybe) for anyone who ordered from B&H. I'm told that, while my place on the list couldn't be divulged, it seems as if there is more than enough to fulfill their orders with the initial shipment. Grain of salt and all that. 16 days and counting!



What time did you place your order?


----------



## crevdog (Jul 16, 2020)

glofo said:


> What time did you place your order?



I called BH a few days go and they said they have no info on how many units they are receiving - but maybe shunsai has a connection at BH or called more recently than me. The person I talked to said they "should" have enough if going off past canon camera launches, but things are not like how they used to be - i'm sure there is limited production with everything happening in the world.


----------



## tpatana (Jul 16, 2020)

crevdog said:


> I called BH a few days go and they said they have no info on how many units they are receiving - but maybe shunsai has a connection at BH or called more recently than me. The person I talked to said they "should" have enough if going off past canon camera launches, but things are not like how they used to be - i'm sure there is limited production with everything happening in the world.



Maybe he has the secret Japanese password to get more Canon secret information. I'm still trying to guess if it's 旬歳 or 旬菜. My Japanese level is about equal to 三才 so I don't get the secret data.


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## Michael Clark (Jul 16, 2020)

Chz said:


> No one, at least not me arguing what your needs. I have no interest and it’s irrelevant to me.
> 
> my discussion has always been price parity. My last word.






Chz said:


> My last words as you seem to continue to missed my point.






Chz said:


> Feel free to have your last words as this will my last reply to your never ending justifications.



Promises, promises...


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## vjlex (Jul 17, 2020)

glofo said:


> What time did you place your order?


About 24 hours after the announcement I think (Friday evening where I am; Friday morning B&H local time). I didn't order right away because I wanted to confirm local prices in Japan first. The Japanese vendors were sloooooowwww about putting up any information (it seems they couldn't reveal their pricing until 10am the next morning; roughly 12 hours after the original announcement).


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## vjlex (Jul 17, 2020)

crevdog said:


> I called BH a few days go and they said they have no info on how many units they are receiving - but maybe shunsai has a connection at BH or called more recently than me. The person I talked to said they "should" have enough if going off past canon camera launches, but things are not like how they used to be - i'm sure there is limited production with everything happening in the world.


No, no special connections. I was told they would be receiving 10,000 units. Of course, I can't verify that, nor do I know if that was R5 body only (like my order), R5 kits, R6s or some combination of all the above. While I still feel there's a chance I could get one from the first shipment, I know that things happen so I'm not expecting it. Hoping, but not expecting.


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## glofo (Jul 17, 2020)

shunsai said:


> About 24 hours after the announcement I think (Friday evening where I am; Friday morning B&H local time). I didn't order right away because I wanted to confirm local prices in Japan first. The Japanese vendors were sloooooowwww about putting up any information (it seems they couldn't reveal their pricing until 10am the next morning; roughly 12 hours after the original announcement).



Interesting. I placed mine at about 10 AM Pacific so we’ll see where I land. Hopeful!


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## crevdog (Jul 17, 2020)

shunsai said:


> No, no special connections. I was told they would be receiving 10,000 units. Of course, I can't verify that, nor do I know if that was R5 body only (like my order), R5 kits, R6s or some combination of all the above. While I still feel there's a chance I could get one from the first shipment, I know that things happen so I'm not expecting it. Hoping, but not expecting.



Thanks for the info Shunsai. I am hoping as well. I might give them another ring next week and see if I can get some more info as well.


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## Gözler (Jul 18, 2020)

How did Jared get it so quickly?


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## Michael Clark (Jul 19, 2020)

Gözler said:


> How did Jared get it so quickly?



Demo bodies direct from Canon after signing all sorts of NDAs. He probably recorded this several weeks ago and can now release it with the embargo lifted.


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## Gözler (Jul 19, 2020)

He said it is production copy and will post full review in two weeks. 



Michael Clark said:


> Demo bodies direct from Canon after signing all sorts of NDAs. He probably recorded this several weeks ago and can now release it with the embargo lifted.


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## tpatana (Jul 19, 2020)

Gözler said:


> He said it is production copy and will post full review in two weeks.



And to people who wonder how he can have production copy 2 weeks before sales date, I would assume the actual production started around May so there's already huge stash of production unit to be sold to customers on release date (plus ship few units to selected reviewers).


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## spyder93090 (Jul 20, 2020)

Anyone familiar with the (US) Canon Online Store. Do you think that the "estimated ship date" for the R5 being 7/30/20 means that anyone pre-ordering RIGHT NOW will still get theirs shipped on 7/30?


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## tpatana (Jul 20, 2020)

Are there any good reviews yet, meaning people who actually look critically instead of playing favor to Canon because they got early units?


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## koenkooi (Jul 20, 2020)

tpatana said:


> Are there any good reviews yet, meaning people who actually look critically instead of playing favor to Canon because they got early units?



Not yet, it seems the non-beta units went out only a few days ago and I wouldn't trust a review that took less than 2 weeks. Unless the reviewer had access to beta units already, like DPReview TV.

Jared Polin has posted early thoughts on his instagram after taking it to the zoo for a day, but they are mostly about the f/11 lenses. And how cropping and noise reduction are tools of the devil, gotta have some controversy to get all those clicks


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## Michael Clark (Jul 21, 2020)

spyder93090 said:


> Anyone familiar with the (US) Canon Online Store. Do you think that the "estimated ship date" for the R5 being 7/30/20 means that anyone pre-ordering RIGHT NOW will still get theirs shipped on 7/30?



Canon Japan has already announced that preorders the first two days outstripped projected available supplies of the R5 on 7/30/20 and the R6 in mid-September.

Some skeptical folks (mostly the Sony fanboys in the comments sections at DP Review) say it's just a marketing tactic to make people panic and order one "before it's too late" to get one without waiting months and months for more to be made. Of course they say Canon made such an announcement because "no one" is pre-ordering any of the new cameras.

Nikon has been known to make this sort of announcement in the past. Canon typically hasn't. When Nikon has made such announcements, it usually did take them several months to get all orders filled and for a supply of the cameras or lenses in question to start showing as "in stock" at retailers.

So maybe there have been more pre-orders than can be filled quickly after cameras start to ship to the end users, or maybe Canon is taking a few pages from Nikon and Sony's marketing playbook. You make the call.


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## Michael Clark (Jul 21, 2020)

tpatana said:


> And to people who wonder how he can have production copy 2 weeks before sales date, I would assume the actual production started around May so there's already huge stash of production unit to be sold to customers on release date (plus ship few units to selected reviewers).



Since it seems Canon initially planned to announce these cameras at Photokina in late May with production copies available for guests to check out, one would presume production of the R5 started well before May. Canon usually insures that they have a sufficient number of units and accessories already arrived at each regional around the world (USA, Europe, etc.), where the cameras or lenses will be placed in retail packaging with included items sourced from other locations, before announcing a product launch.


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## glofo (Jul 21, 2020)

crevdog said:


> Thanks for the info Shunsai. I am hoping as well. I might give them another ring next week and see if I can get some more info as well.


Have you preordered anything from B&H in the past? Do they give you an estimated ship date closer to the release day?


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## Ian_of_glos (Jul 21, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> It's a smaller market, it's further from Japan, and your consumer laws require much longer warranties. Someone has to pay for all of those repairs done under warranty that would have been paid for by the owner in the U.S.


Where did that theory come from? Canon's standard warranty period in the UK is 12 months.


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## Ian_of_glos (Jul 21, 2020)

Joules said:


> Can we just let that go finally? It has been discussed to death. It is a different market, different customers, different regulations and so on. In the EU, customers are protected by stronger regulations, which is one of many things that go into pricing.


No we cannot. I really don't know how Canon justify a higher price in Europe than in the USA, but in my opinion the R5 is not worth £4,200 (body only) so I will not be buying one.
The same thing happened when the 5D mk 4 was released, but after 12 months the price had reduced sufficiently to bring it in line with the US. Setting a higher launch price in Europe than in the USA seems to be Canon policy and it cannot be explained by the addition of VAT, longer warranties or any of the other theories that have been put forward.


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## koenkooi (Jul 21, 2020)

Ian_of_glos said:


> Where did that theory come from? Canon's standard warranty period in the UK is 12 months.



While the UK is still in the EU, purchases are covered by the 2 year EU requirement: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/faq/index_en.htm


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## Joules (Jul 21, 2020)

Ian_of_glos said:


> No we cannot. [...] it cannot be explained by the addition of VAT, longer warranties or any of the other theories that have been put forward.


Well, since you seem to be unconvinced by the explanations that have been suggested in the endless discussions that already exist on the subject, we should let it go anyway.

If you are unsatisfied with the pricing, maybe try and get some insights from Canon directly. Or at least give them feedback on the issue you see. The forum here has a number of reoccurring topics that usually don't uncover anything new upon resurfacing. So they are worth being let go. Canon are the only one who can really give some insights into or change their pricing.


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## Michael Clark (Jul 22, 2020)

Ian_of_glos said:


> Where did that theory come from? Canon's standard warranty period in the UK is 12 months.



Was that also the case when the UK was part of the EU? I thought the minimum warranty allowed there was two years? The consumer protection laws are certainly stricter that force them to cover things they don't cover in the U.S.. Don't they also require allowing new purchases to be returned for longer periods than in the U.S.?


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## arthurbikemad (Jul 22, 2020)

Ian_of_glos said:


> No we cannot. I really don't know how Canon justify a higher price in Europe than in the USA, but in my opinion the R5 is not worth £4,200 (body only) so I will not be buying one.
> The same thing happened when the 5D mk 4 was released, but after 12 months the price had reduced sufficiently to bring it in line with the US. Setting a higher launch price in Europe than in the USA seems to be Canon policy and it cannot be explained by the addition of VAT, longer warranties or any of the other theories that have been put forward.



Sad to hear that I've paid too much for my R5, however the price is the price, I pre ordered my 1DX3 and thought the same about that back then, but like I say the price is the price, the 1DX3 is still 6500.00 from Wex so I'd still be waiting for the price to drop and would have missed out for the last umpteen months of use, sadly no one knew Covid would shock the markets into a zone they have never been so we will never know if that has kept the price high, anyhow my pre order is placed and I shall as per my instructions to Wex wish to never see the invoice total again until the day I return it, or sell it. I do agree however that the price is high, but I guess I just have to trust Canon are giving me value for money, but that's probably subjective, I've tried buying a Porsche before having explained to the sales rep I only want it for the odd trip to the shops so if he could adjust the price accordingly that would be great


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## tpatana (Jul 23, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Was that also the case when the UK was part of the EU? I thought the minimum warranty allowed there was two years? The consumer protection laws are certainly stricter that force them to cover things they don't cover in the U.S.. Don't they also require allowing new purchases to be returned for longer periods than in the U.S.?



I know in Finland the law is vague, it states "the warranty much be at minimum the expected lifetime of the device", and some people have successfully challenged the companies through the customer advocacy bureau to repair broken device even way past their normal warranty period.

Laws like that sound good on paper, but naturally they are then paid at higher price tag. It's be almost better to give customer option, so instead of 3rd party extra warranties, the manufacturer could say R5 is $3899 with 1 year warranty, or $4200 with 3 year warranty. It'd be transparent and would give everyone choice.

Especially people who like numbers (and gambling) like me, would immediately see that if it's more than 7.692% likely to die between 1-3 year period, it's worth paying the extra (with the example numbers above), and if you feel it's less likely to die than 7.692%, then go with the $3899.


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## Sawthingsca (Jul 23, 2020)

For those of you that pre-ordered on Adorama - does your status state "backordered?" I ordered mine at about 550am PST


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## highdesertmesa (Jul 23, 2020)

Sawthingsca said:


> For those of you that pre-ordered on Adorama - does your status state "backordered?" I ordered mine at about 550am PST



Yes, it says that the minute they process the (pre-)order – from an hour to 1/2 a day after you place it.


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## Sawthingsca (Jul 23, 2020)

highdesertmesa said:


> Yes, it says that the minute they process the (pre-)order – from an hour to 1/2 a day after you place it.


Awesome - thank you.


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## H. Jones (Jul 23, 2020)

Just saw a professional friend of mine get his R5 and BG-R10 today. 

Update: Sounds like Canon has just started sending out some loaners to a few larger outlets/major market freelancers while they wait on their pre-orders, so hopefully that's a good sign.


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## Chris.Chapterten (Jul 24, 2020)

For those in Australia, Cameraclix has the best price for the R5 I have seen so far...


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## CvH (Jul 24, 2020)

Ian_of_glos said:


> No we cannot. I really don't know how Canon justify a higher price in Europe than in the USA, but in my opinion the R5 is not worth £4,200 (body only) so I will not be buying one.





Joules said:


> If you are unsatisfied with the pricing, maybe try and get some insights from Canon directly. Or at least give them feedback on the issue you see. The forum here has a number of reoccurring topics that usually don't uncover anything new upon resurfacing. So they are worth being let go. Canon are the only one who can really give some insights into or change their pricing.



It seems Canon Australia have listened to many feedback. The RRP dropped from ~A$7100 to A$6899.


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## bbb34 (Jul 24, 2020)

Street prices in different countries will be closer together than MSRP. Otherwise gray imports would go crazy.


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## Michael Clark (Jul 25, 2020)

Ian_of_glos said:


> No we cannot. I really don't know how Canon justify a higher price in Europe than in the USA, but in my opinion the R5 is not worth £4,200 (body only) so I will not be buying one.
> The same thing happened when the 5D mk 4 was released, but after 12 months the price had reduced sufficiently to bring it in line with the US. Setting a higher launch price in Europe than in the USA seems to be Canon policy and it cannot be explained by the addition of VAT, longer warranties or any of the other theories that have been put forward.



Maybe it can be explained by a higher percentage of Europeans demonstrating time after time after time (each new camera/lens launch) that they are more willing to pay an early adopter premium than the same percentage of Americans?


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## Michael Clark (Jul 25, 2020)

Chz said:


> It seems Canon Australia have listened to many feedback. The RRP dropped from ~A$7100 to A$6899.



Or maybe they noticed the Australian Dollar is holding its recovered value since it tanked in early March versus the Japanese Yen...


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## briangus (Jul 25, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> While the UK is still in the EU, purchases are covered by the 2 year EU requirement: https://europa.eu/youreurope/citizens/consumers/shopping/guarantees-returns/faq/index_en.htm


The UK left the EU on 31/01/2020 but is still in transition phase so EU laws apply to end of year.
After that who knows what will happen.
The Canon EWS warranty is 1 year and covers the UK, it also covers non EU European countries so should still be valid after they leave.

From the same EU Website the Guarantee and Returns for England is 6 years and 5 years for Scotland.








Guarantees, cancelling and returning your purchases - Your Europe


How to claim the 2-year guarantee for EU purchases, get a repair, replacement or refund, how to cancel orders made outside shops (online, by phone, mail order).




europa.eu





You want 3 years warranty in UK buy from John Lewis


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## Michael Clark (Jul 25, 2020)

briangus said:


> The UK left the EU on 31/01/2020 but is still in transition phase so EU laws apply to end of year.
> After that who knows what will happen.
> The Canon EWS warranty is 1 year and covers the UK, it also covers non EU European countries so should still be valid after they leave.
> 
> ...



In the U.S., there's pretty much nothing to equate to the "Guarantee and Returns" past the one-year warranty period. In fact, unless an issue is due to defects in materials or workmanship, which is what a warranty covers here, there's no such thing at all in the USA. A U.S. warranty only covers specific examples of a product that do not meet the standards a "normal" example of the same product meets. If a product has a defective _design_, it takes an individual or class action lawsuit to get any relief.

Someone has to pay for Canon's additional risk/expenses in markets where such laws are in effect compared to markets where such laws do not exist.


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## CvH (Jul 25, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Or maybe they noticed the Australian Dollar is holding its recovered value since it tanked in early March versus the Japanese Yen...
> 
> View attachment 191530



Do you really believe they would adjust the RRP as the exchange rate fluctuated? If that is the case then the RRP for their entire products would have also lower. I didn't check but I don't think the RRP for the R6 and announced RF lenses have changed. 

Again, another speculation and it doesn't make sense that they would dropped the RRP 2 Weeks after it was formally released due to exchange rate fluctuations.


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## SecureGSM (Jul 25, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> Or maybe they noticed the Australian Dollar is holding its recovered value since it tanked in early March versus the Japanese Yen...
> 
> View attachment 191530


Nuh.. Michael.. Enterprises conduct business in AU at a fixed USD/AUD conversion rate set internally. i.e.: An Enteprise I worked for, set USD/AUD conversion rate at 0.62. It has not changed for at least 3 years.
They set local RRP based on current and also future projections on USD/AUD and further adjusted for market expectations. interesting though, that AUD is virtually at parity with CAD for quite some time now CAD/AUD=1.05 approx.. however, R5 RRP (Canada): *$5399.00 inc GST* (10%) and in Australia : * $6,899.00 inc GST (10%).... *It's a rip off


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## AlanF (Jul 25, 2020)

Compare these pricings for Canon and Nikon in the USA, B&H; and UK, Wex. These give the lie to that Japanese companies have to charge more in the EU and UK for warranty etc . Nikon has a similar price or even less here, bearing in mind that the UK prices have 20% VAT.

Canon New RF 2xTC
B&H $599
Wex £699
Canon New RF 1.4xTC
B&H $499
Wex £559

Nikon New 2xTC
B&H $596.95
Wex £599
Nikon New 1.4xTC
B&H $566.95
Wex £549

Nikon Z5 Digital Camera with 24-50mm
B&H $1,696.95
Wex £1,719.00

The UK prices on the RF TCs are pure rip off.


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## CvH (Jul 25, 2020)

AlanF said:


> Compare these pricings for Canon and Nikon in the USA, B&H; and UK, Wex. These give the lie to that Japanese companies have to charge more in the EU and UK for warranty etc . Nikon has a similar price or even less here, bearing in mind that the UK prices have 20% VAT.
> 
> Canon New RF 2xTC
> B&H $599
> ...



Same. The RF TC is A$1340 in Australia. 









RF Extender 2x


Extend and expand your range of shooting with compatible RF lenses




store.canon.com.au


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