# Review: Canon EOS M5: \



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 27, 2017)

```
<em>“Easily the best “M” so far!”</em></p>
<p>Bryan at The-Digital-Picture has completed his review of the Canon EOS M5 mirrorless camera.</p>
<p><strong>From TDP</strong></p>
<blockquote><p>If you have been waiting to jump into a Canon MILC and an APS-C sensor format works for you, the EOS M5 is a great choice.</p>
<p>While one may feel a tendency to treat a camera of this size as a point and shoot model, using it only for those still-important snapshot opportunities that pop up (it works extremely well for these opportunities) would mean grievously underutilizing a highly-capable camera. The M5 has great image quality, an excellent AF system (intelligent, quickly controllable and good speed) and an impressive set of features and controls. <a href="http://www.the-digital-picture.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-M5.aspx">Read the full review</a></p></blockquote>
<p>We have yet to use the EOS M5, but I have put one order after reading Bryan’s review and I look forward to actually enjoying the EOS M system for the first time.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## benkam (Feb 27, 2017)

Canon Rumors said:


> “Easily the best “M” so far!”


Would've sucked if it wasn't so.

The M5 was initially as seen the mirrorless 80D but now it's probably more accurate to consider it the mirrorless 77D, being also not a weather sealed body, having a smaller battery and no headphone jack, among others.

Good step forward for Canon and also looking forward to seeing the actual mirrorless equivalent of the 80D or a leap-frog to a ML "90D", and maybe even the 7D-series. Also, very interested in the mirrorless version of the future 6D Mark II.


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## CosminD (Feb 27, 2017)

without a weather sealed body , dual cards and a decent battery no pro would use it (except for vacations maybe)


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## tallrob (Feb 27, 2017)

The best M so far isn't saying much. Besides, wasn't the M6 just announced?


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## Tom W (Feb 28, 2017)

With the 22 f/2 M lens, it's a nice small package. Could use a larger lens lineup though. Thinking 10, 16, 22, 32, 50 mm primes, all reasonably fast, small, and not too expensive.


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 28, 2017)

CosminD said:


> without a weather sealed body , dual cards and a decent battery no pro would use it (except for vacations maybe)



Yeah, the 5DII had marginal weather sealing and one CF slot which is why no pros ever used them and none are using them today. 

: : :


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## goldenhusky (Feb 28, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> CosminD said:
> 
> 
> > without a weather sealed body , dual cards and a decent battery no pro would use it (except for vacations maybe)
> ...



True, but that was almost a decade ago and I doubt if there was another choice. If I get paid to shoot at this day and age I wouldn't shoot with a camera that has only one card slot. There is nothing embarrassing than telling the client who paid that I lost all their precious moments because a memory card failed and not to mention the damage to the reputation. Yes one memory card had failed on me in the past and I did loose some of my own pictures. I do not shoot for money. All pictures I lost were of my own family. So that was OK.


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## infared (Feb 28, 2017)

TDP is so Canon kiss-ass. It takes away from the credibility of the website and all the good work he does. 
Fact: Canon's mirrorless lags far behind in that segment. Far behind. Simply wording a review in this manner is like propaganda and misleading.


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## AlanF (Feb 28, 2017)

infared said:


> TDP is so Canon kiss-ass. It takes away from the credibility of the website and all the good work he does.
> Fact: Canon's mirrorless lags far behind in that segment. Far behind. Simply wording a review in this manner is like propaganda and misleading.



dpreviews is Canon's kick ass but gives the M5 near rave reviews and a silver star. Are they also losing credibility?

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-m5-review


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## slclick (Feb 28, 2017)

infared said:


> TDP is so Canon kiss-ass. It takes away from the credibility of the website and all the good work he does.
> Fact: Canon's mirrorless lags far behind in that segment. Far behind. Simply wording a review in this manner is like propaganda and misleading.



There are Nikon biased sites and Canon and Sony etc etc. What is the big surprise here?

I'd love for someone to name a site with as complete information, specs, comparison tools, recommendations, real world reviews and written as well as Bryan's which covers all the major players equally. Yeah I thought so. (Although I could sometimes wish he had never added Setters)


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## -1 (Feb 28, 2017)

CosminD said:


> without a weather sealed body , dual cards and a decent battery no pro would use it (except for vacations maybe)


No. That's what the M7 is for... With those fast weather sealed "Blueline" primes made available simultaneously! )


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Feb 28, 2017)

I stopped at our local camera store two days ago, but they had no M5, nor any of the M models. They had all the Canon DSLR's and most, if not all the Nikon ones (No 1 series or D5). Sony models were pretty well missing, they had just one, a A7S, I believe. It looked like they were abandoning Sony, because they had no interchangeable lenses either, they used to give Sony equal space to Canon and Nikon and had lots of lenses and accessories. I think that what I saw depicts the state of the camera industry, devastated and really tough for the smaller companies. There are a couple more camera stores that carry the high end models, 

I may go to them if the snow and ice ever relent. I spent three days(so far) trying to get my sons wheel and tire replaced, that's a nightmare of a story.


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## ozwineguy (Feb 28, 2017)

I just got one. My main camera is a 5Ds, with a bunch of L glass that I've slowly accumulated. I've recently been doing some events, so wanted a second body, but wanted a light one with more FPS. Considered a 7D II, but also really liked the idea of being able to throw this into just about any bag, and also having a smaller camera with built-in flash for shots of our kids. I've only had it a little while, with the 22mm f2, but really like it so far. Sure, it's not up to the standard of mirrorless cameras from others, but it works with my existing lenses, and makes it really easy to carry anywhere.

Downsides are getting used to a different interface (just a matter of time, really) and very limited lenses for those days when I just chuck it in my bag. I mean, even a constant aperture f4 zoom with vaguely decent range would have me sorted. The 18-150mm is tempting, though, as is the 28mm macro, just for everyday carry. Then I'd have a low(ish) light lens with the 22mm, macro and standard with the 28mm, and the 18-150 for everything else, plus all my other lenses when I'm carrying the full kit.


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## docsmith (Feb 28, 2017)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I stopped at our local camera store two days ago, but they had no M5, nor any of the M models. They had all the Canon DSLR's and most, if not all the Nikon ones (No 1 series or D5). Sony models were pretty well missing, they had just one, a A7S, I believe. It looked like they were abandoning Sony, because they had no interchangeable lenses either, they used to give Sony equal space to Canon and Nikon and had lots of lenses and accessories. I think that what I saw depicts the state of the camera industry, devastated and really tough for the smaller companies. There are a couple more camera stores that carry the high end models,
> 
> I may go to them if the snow and ice ever relent. I spent three days(so far) trying to get my sons wheel and tire replaced, that's a nightmare of a story.



Sorry to hear about the snow and ice. I was without power on Spokane's south hill for a couple of days during an ice storm, if I recall, '96 or '97.

What you described is what I am seeing. I am looking for a pocketable camera, I am shocked at the number of Best Buy's, Walmarts, and Targets that used to have a nice array of cameras that now have next to nothing. I finally found 2 Best Buys, one on a business trip, the other ~50 miles away. But, there is little doubt that the big box retailers have moved on.

As for TDP review, the M5 is being pretty universally praised. If anything, they are just confirming what others are saying. The first positive review I saw was from Nikon lovin' Kai himself. Then dpreview. I actually haven't seen a bad review yet.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PhHpV0kc7as


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## rajdude (Feb 28, 2017)

Canon needs to wake up to the reality that this camera is years behind the curve. It is year 2017, everyone is buying a 4K TV, we have the capability to enjoy 4K, so why would I go without 4K home videos for years when I can have it for the same price?

I am buying a Sony a6300 instead.

I have spent a long time with both cameras (in a store), to be fair, the M5 is really, really good especially the touchscreen.........but the M lenses looks like cheap plastic toys. and no 4K? Come on Canon!


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## privatebydesign (Feb 28, 2017)

rajdude said:


> Canon needs to wake up to the reality that this camera is years behind the curve. It is year 2017, everyone is buying a 4K TV, we have the capability to enjoy 4K, so why would I go without 4K home videos for years when I can have it for the same price?
> 
> I am buying a Sony a6300 instead.
> 
> I have spent a long time with both cameras (in a store), to be fair, the M5 is really, really good especially the touchscreen.........but the M lenses looks like cheap plastic toys. and no 4K? Come on Canon!



From my experience with having owned a 70" 4K TV for a year, 4K is vastly overrated at this point. 1080 scaled, automatically by the TV, is so close as to be indistinguishable most of the time. Besides, good 1080 has been shown many times to be higher quality than modest 4K footage.

The only people that benefit from 4K capture at this time are people interested in future proofing their footage. 'Everybody' might be shooting 4K, you just can't deliver it unless you go blue ray. There are possibly 20 titles of actual programes on Netflix in 4K, the internet can't deliver it at 99% of USA households.


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## Bernard (Feb 28, 2017)

Thing is, over-compressed 4K footage looks awful. HD with a decent bit rate and codec (which this camera offers) looks much better.

Sure, you could always attach an external recorder to get clean 4k, but those cost more than the camera. It's not something that many consumers would do.


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 28, 2017)

rajdude said:


> Canon needs to wake up to the reality that this camera is years behind the curve. It is year 2017, everyone is buying a 4K TV, we have the capability to enjoy 4K, so why would I go without 4K home videos for years when I can have it for the same price?
> 
> I am buying a Sony a6300 instead.



You need to wake up to the reality that your needs and wants don't necessarily represent those of the global market.

Enjoy your a6300 (and hope you never need to have it serviced, but hey, if you do Precision Camera should fix it for you in a few weeks...or months...).


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## TWI by Dustin Abbott (Feb 28, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> rajdude said:
> 
> 
> > Canon needs to wake up to the reality that this camera is years behind the curve. It is year 2017, everyone is buying a 4K TV, we have the capability to enjoy 4K, so why would I go without 4K home videos for years when I can have it for the same price?
> ...



I agree, Neuro. I sold my M3 several months ago before I reviewed the M5 in expectations that I'd probably just snap one up. Most of of you saw my review of the M5 and its pros and cons, but overall I like the camera, but...I am shooting a lot of my YouTube reviews in 4K now (5D IV) and then downsampling them to 1080P. I get a cleaner finished product plus the option to crop in a lossless fashion. So, I haven't just snapped up a M5 for myself. I looked at the Sony options, and Panasonic, and Fuji...and, well, I still don't have any mirrorless body right now. All of them have major shortcomings. Sony finally has a touchscreen on the a6500, but it is terrible. The physical controls aren't nearly as good as the M5, and the video tracking isn't on par with DPAF. My lens collection isn't designed around M43, so I'm loathe to buy into Panasonic.

There is no perfect option right now, and, in many ways, the M5 is one of the best all around options. It just lacks some major features and has at least one major ergonomic issue (impingement of the tilt screen by just about anything).


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## LDS (Feb 28, 2017)

CosminD said:


> without a weather sealed body , dual cards and a decent battery no pro would use it (except for vacations maybe)



If you believe that every "pro" only shoots with large, bulky cameras with multiple cards you could be surprised it isn't true.

Sure, there are situations when it's difficult (and risky) to renounce to a second card (and even a backup body...), or weather sealing, others where a small, inconspicuous yet capable camera is exactly what you need. Bigger (and heavier) is not always better.


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## Duckman (Feb 28, 2017)

Does anyone know specifics on the M5's AEB abilities? Specifically, maximum number of bracketed shots and the EV range? (i.e. 5div can do 7 sequential bracketed shots +/- 3 EV) 
...Anyone know if these spec numbers will carry over to the M6? 

I'm contemplating getting an M5 or M6 (leaning towards M6 for max "pocketability") as a light, unobtrusive camera for casual shooting (at the bar, friends house, etc.)...but, I am also starting to plan and prepare for the upcoming total eclipse and am starting to wonder if using a 1.6 sensor for that would behoove me, for use with my 100-400ii (and possibly 1.4x extender).... This could influence my decision on which M to purchase.
Sorry if this is getting off topic, I'll start a new thread if necessary.
thanks for the help, 
-J


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## AvTvM (Feb 28, 2017)

benkam said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > “Easily the best “M” so far!”
> ...



exactly. It is still the "very minimum" what Canon delivered with M5 and M6 - compared to Fuji X-T2, and Sony A6500.


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## Dylan777 (Feb 28, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> benkam said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...



Until the prices are same, otherwise:


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## Random Orbits (Feb 28, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> benkam said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...



Yeah, and the Canons cost lost than the x-t2 and a6500. You should expect different feature sets.


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## scyrene (Feb 28, 2017)

rajdude said:


> Canon needs to wake up to the reality that this camera is years behind the curve. It is year 2017, everyone is buying a 4K TV, we have the capability to enjoy 4K, so why would I go without 4K home videos for years when I can have it for the same price?
> 
> I am buying a Sony a6300 instead.
> 
> I have spent a long time with both cameras (in a store), to be fair, the M5 is really, really good especially the touchscreen.........but the M lenses looks like cheap plastic toys. and no 4K? Come on Canon!



Everybody is different, and your experience and expectations are as valid as anyone's, but I don't think *everyone* cares about 4K. There are still next to no broadcast 4K options in the UK.

And I don't know about anyone else, but I don't watch home movies on my tv. Never have, unlikely ever to do so. Do most people? I think most videos are shared online, watched on phones, tablets, and maybe laptops. Admittedly many of these devices have high-res screens, but I still don't see much content in 4K (and the issue I face more is, do I want to wait for it to stream, or just make do with HD? Broadband speeds are still not good enough for delivering high res content in a lot of places).

But in any case, it will come. They're introducing it gradually. I guess part of the issue is heat dissipation in smaller bodies with larger sensors. Anyhow, your 'everybody' is an exaggeration.


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## bholliman (Feb 28, 2017)

infared said:


> Fact: Canon's mirrorless lags far behind in that segment. Far behind. Simply wording a review in this manner is like propaganda and misleading.



From what I've seen, the M5/6 compare pretty well spec-wise with other mirrorless bodies *in the $1K price range*. Plus they have Canon's excellent service and support behind them and can use the full universe of Canon EF(x) lenses. Pretty good package in my opinion.


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## AlanF (Feb 28, 2017)

DxOmark has just reviewed the M5 sensor

https://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-M5-sensor-review-Made-for-mirrorless

"In our benchmarking, the Canon EOS M5 achieves a decent overall score of 77 points. Dynamic range is very good with a high 12.5 EV at base, of course, while achieving good balance in color depth at 23.4 bits and a low-light score of 1262 ISO, which while good, is still a little behind the better-performing sensors in APS-C format. While the performance is mostly unchanged from previous models using a similar sensor, it’s still very good overall."


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## rrcphoto (Feb 28, 2017)

infared said:


> TDP is so Canon kiss-ass. It takes away from the credibility of the website and all the good work he does.
> Fact: Canon's mirrorless lags far behind in that segment. Far behind. Simply wording a review in this manner is like propaganda and misleading.



how so? 
The only thing you could say is lacking against an X-T2 is 4K (which on the X-T2 is time limited). 
Against the A6300, the only thing it's lacking is some fps and also the ability to be used as a coffee warmer.

in then over 800, and under 1000 area that the m5 currently exists, you have to drop down to m43's to get some interesting options. APS-C and above, if you account for touch drag AF, canon's func dial and other ergonomic advantages, unless 4K is definitely your thing (to which why on earth are you getting a stills camera anyways) then I'd say it's very competitive.


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## Random Orbits (Feb 28, 2017)

AlanF said:


> DxOmark has just reviewed the M5 sensor
> 
> https://www.dxomark.com/Reviews/Canon-EOS-M5-sensor-review-Made-for-mirrorless
> 
> "In our benchmarking, the Canon EOS M5 achieves a decent overall score of 77 points. Dynamic range is very good with a high 12.5 EV at base, of course, while achieving good balance in color depth at 23.4 bits and a low-light score of 1262 ISO, which while good, is still a little behind the better-performing sensors in APS-C format. While the performance is mostly unchanged from previous models using a similar sensor, it’s still very good overall."



Hmm... I wonder what happened to the M5 sensor that it gave up the low ISO dynamic range that the 80D had managed to gain...


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## yorgasor (Feb 28, 2017)

I'm glad the M5 is getting better. The earlier Ms didn't really interest me. I still won't get this one, I'll take a look when Canon comes out with a full frame camera that is hopefully around the same size as a 5D series. I just got an A7 II, which I'm really enjoying, but the cramped controls are annoying. It will probably be quite a while before I'm comfortable using it on a paid gig, but it's perfect as a walkabout camera for my old manual focus lenses.


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## KeithBreazeal (Feb 28, 2017)

One of the things I like about the LCD tilt screen is that low and high angle shots are easier to compose due to the lack of parallax issues. With my old G12, flipping the screen out and tilting it up or down for a close up was an bit of a brain teaser. 
The G12 is my only camera with a flippy screen and I didn't know how I would like the M5's tilt screen, but it has proven to be a much better experience than I thought it would be.


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 28, 2017)

Random Orbits said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > exactly. It is still the "very minimum" what Canon delivered with M5 and M6 - compared to Fuji X-T2, and Sony A6500.
> ...



Yes, it's like saying a Rebel/xxxD should have the same feature set as an xxD or 7-series body. 

Then again, since when has AvTvM given any sort of hint that his expectations have any basis in or alignment with reality?


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## AvTvM (Mar 1, 2017)

rrcphoto said:


> The only thing you could say is lacking against an X-T2 is 4K (which on the X-T2 is time limited).
> Against the A6300, the only thing it's lacking is some fps and also the ability to be used as a coffee warmer.



more importantly than 4K and coffeemaker i would mention
* unusable, stupid, tilt-down LCD
* no electronic shutter


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## yorgasor (Mar 1, 2017)

On a feature/price ratio, the M5 is probably very well placed. But I think more people here are just disappointed they didn't get the fancier features where it would've competed more against the X-T2 and A6500.



neuroanatomist said:


> Random Orbits said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...


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## infared (Mar 1, 2017)

AlanF said:


> infared said:
> 
> 
> > TDP is so Canon kiss-ass. It takes away from the credibility of the website and all the good work he does.
> ...



Um....did you read this part?
Cons:
Native lens lineup is sorely lacking
No 4K video capture
1080p video capture lacks detail
Viewfinder blackout is very long
Low light image quality significantly worse than peers
Shutter button lacks responsiveness
JPEG noise reduction and sharpening are behind the competition
Limited buffer for burst shooting
Ergonomics may trouble left-eyed shooters
Auto ISO almost unusably limited
Raw dynamic range still lags behind the competition 
Auto white balance strays to the cool side by default


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## privatebydesign (Mar 1, 2017)

Duckman said:


> Does anyone know specifics on the M5's AEB abilities? Specifically, maximum number of bracketed shots and the EV range? (i.e. 5div can do 7 sequential bracketed shots +/- 3 EV)
> ...Anyone know if these spec numbers will carry over to the M6?



Three images with +/-2 stops in 1/3 stop increments, this can be 'added' to +/-3 stops of exposure compensation (again in 1/3 stop increments) too for a 10 stop spread in two bursts of three shots.

The M6 is the same.


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## takesome1 (Mar 1, 2017)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I stopped at our local camera store two days ago, but they had no M5, nor any of the M models. They had all the Canon DSLR's and most, if not all the Nikon ones (No 1 series or D5). Sony models were pretty well missing, they had just one, a A7S, I believe. It looked like they were abandoning Sony, because they had no interchangeable lenses either, they used to give Sony equal space to Canon and Nikon and had lots of lenses and accessories. I think that what I saw depicts the state of the camera industry, devastated and really tough for the smaller companies. There are a couple more camera stores that carry the high end models,
> 
> I may go to them if the snow and ice ever relent. I spent three days(so far) trying to get my sons wheel and tire replaced, that's a nightmare of a story.



The local store here is Nikon biased. They carry both brands but if a customer comes in and asks for a brand they reach for a Nikon first. If someone asks for a lens they grab a third party lens first. 

I became friends with the manager and I asked him about this. It is a profit margin issue, they make more off of Nikons and the other lenses. He blamed Canon's pricing structure.


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## AlanF (Mar 1, 2017)

infared said:


> AlanF said:
> 
> 
> > infared said:
> ...



By choosing to cut and paste only the list of cons, it gives a rather strong impression that you yourself are 100% biased against. A fair judge looks at both pros and cons. Despite the cons, DPR gave it a silver star award because of its many pros that outweighed the cons.


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## Woody (Mar 1, 2017)

infared said:


> Cons:
> Low light image quality significantly worse than peers



From
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/canon-eos-m5-review/5

"Raw... In lower light and at higher ISO values, the EOS M5 is behind the competition by around one stop, which is a significant disparity at this point."

I looked at the comparison photos on DPReview site and I don't see how DPReview arrived at this stupid conclusion.

Even DXOMark data does not show any hint of this 1 stop disparity:







Yup... that's where all the DPReview biased BS comes in. Sigh... :


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## AvTvM (Mar 1, 2017)

interesting to see that M5 sensor performance is behind 80D. as much as i dislike DXO generally, one would hope that the same test method was applied to both sensors and results are therefore comparable. 

whether it is a full stop or not, i find it disappointing when a newer camera has less IQ/sensor performance than an older model. would be intetesting to get reasons/explanation for this "phenomenon". one of the questions, dpreview or other website staff could put in front of the Canon exec muppets when they "interview" them next time ... no matter if those guys would find such a straightforward, fact-based question horribly "disrespectful" or not!


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## Woody (Mar 1, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> interesting to see that M5 sensor performance is behind 80D.



The sensors may not be the same.

Just as the 77D and 80D sensors are not identical:
http://www.pocket-lint.com/review/140226-canon-eos-77d-preview-lucky-7s-for-the-80d-lite

"On paper the 77D's sensor looks to be the very same 24.2-megapixel one as you'll find in the 80D. That's not precisely the case, however, as it's a new construction, paired with the latest Digic 7 processor."

(The EOS-M5, 77D and 800D all use Digic 7 processor, while the 80D uses Digic 6 processor.)


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## AvTvM (Mar 1, 2017)

Woody said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > interesting to see that M5 sensor performance is behind 80D.
> ...



Yes, sensors are obviously not identical. But is it really too much expecting some *improvement* in IQ after 2 years [80D -> M5] from *oh so innovative, industry-leading* Canon rather than a slight downgrade? Especially when a more powerful CPU is powering image pipeline and should be capable of running stronger/better algorithms on the image data?


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## AlanF (Mar 1, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> interesting to see that M5 sensor performance is behind 80D. as much as i dislike DXO generally, one would hope that the same test method was applied to both sensors and results are therefore comparable.
> 
> whether it is a full stop or not, i find it disappointing when a newer camera has less IQ/sensor performance than an older model. would be intetesting to get reasons/explanation for this "phenomenon". one of the questions, dpreview or other website staff could put in front of the Canon exec muppets when they "interview" them next time ... no matter if those guys would find such a straightforward, fact-based question horribly "disrespectful" or not!



Don't believe any measurement that is quoted without a standard error and standard deviation (or estimate of uncertainty) and you don't know how many times that measurement was made and whether it is on more than one copy of the camera. Lensrentals is believable because they do multiple measurments and quote the mean values, and sometimes have shown the deviations from the mean. Unless DxOmark gives an indication of the standard deviation of the measurements, I would not take the difference between two relatively similar numbers as being significant. JUst take DxOmark as giving a rough estimate of the properties of the sensor.


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## AvTvM (Mar 1, 2017)

share most of points and reservations re. DXO. 

However, I would expect, that copy-to-copy variation for image sensor performance is not as huge as for lenses [where many elements need to be perfectly adjusted and aligned for optimum performance]. 

So * under the assumption* that DXO used *exactly the same test method* for 80D and M5 ... I find it disappointing. Even when the difference may not be large or really visible in real luife .. it is on the wrong side. I would have liked to see at least a slight improvement ... as a "rough idea", that Canon is making some progress with sensor performance. After all, they still have some catch-up to do if they want to become "fully competitive" with - or better than! - Sony sensors.


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## Duckman (Mar 1, 2017)

privatebydesign said:


> Duckman said:
> 
> 
> > Does anyone know specifics on the M5's AEB abilities? Specifically, maximum number of bracketed shots and the EV range? (i.e. 5div can do 7 sequential bracketed shots +/- 3 EV)
> ...


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## Sharlin (Mar 1, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> But is it really too much expecting some *improvement* in IQ after 2 years [80D -> M5] from *oh so innovative, industry-leading* Canon rather than a slight downgrade? Especially when a more powerful CPU is powering image pipeline and should be capable of running stronger/better algorithms on the image data?



Two years? Last I checked there was less than half a year between the 80D and the M5 releases.


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## AvTvM (Mar 1, 2017)

ah thx, you are right, it was not so long as i thought.


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## rrcphoto (Mar 1, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> interesting to see that M5 sensor performance is behind 80D. as much as i dislike DXO generally, one would hope that the same test method was applied to both sensors and results are therefore comparable.
> 
> whether it is a full stop or not, i find it disappointing when a newer camera has less IQ/sensor performance than an older model. would be intetesting to get reasons/explanation for this "phenomenon". one of the questions, dpreview or other website staff could put in front of the Canon exec muppets when they "interview" them next time ... no matter if those guys would find such a straightforward, fact-based question horribly "disrespectful" or not!



DXO doesnt' publish how it runs it's tests and under what ambient condition controls.

however, keep in mind that the sensor may be the same, or as good, but the operating environment be poorer.

if you are running the EVF, it's clocking at 120hz. that means the video feed from the sensor, line skip or not, is running at 120hz.

increase in ambient temperature > less sensor performance.

one of the reasons nikon was always able to goose more out of sony sensors is that sony uses EVF for all it's cameras, thus running at higher ambient.


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## scyrene (Mar 1, 2017)

AlanF said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > interesting to see that M5 sensor performance is behind 80D. as much as i dislike DXO generally, one would hope that the same test method was applied to both sensors and results are therefore comparable.
> ...



Good point!


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## lescrane (Mar 7, 2017)

*for me, too little, too late*

Sorry, Canon.
This looks like a great camera,with most of the features I need in a small, light package. I'm not sure how many lenses there are for this, when I sold my original "M" there were only 3 system lenses.(I don't count adapted lenses)

After 30 years of using Canon SLRS/DSLRS, I sold most of my lenses, and kept the two bodies(60,70d)I had since they fetched little on the market. I am now fully invested in the Panasonic Lumix m43 system.

I had no complaints about Canon ergonomics or IQ, none at all. However, weight and size became more of a factor every year. If Canon had developed an M system faster, including long zoom lenses, I probably would have stayed. Frankly, Panasonic Mirrorless are harder to use if you like making a lot of adjustments. However, I have reduced the weight factor 50% from the DSLRs, which is a load off when I go on a hike or nature walk.

As far as IQ, well, I really see no difference in noise up to 1200 ISO, or resolution. I'm not saying there IS no difference, just that I'm not seeing it, even on A3 prints. Obviously still check Canon Rumors once in a while, and if a friend is intent on a DSLR, I recommend Canon. However, the axiom that the "Best camera is the camera that you have with you" means I have no regrets about lightening up with the Lumix system.


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## Orangutan (Mar 7, 2017)

*Re: for me, too little, too late*



lescrane said:


> Sorry, Canon.... I am now fully invested in the Panasonic Lumix m43 system.



Enjoy!


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## KeithBreazeal (Jun 24, 2017)

Some "mad science" taking place here. I need to go find some birds that will sit still and pose for me.



Canon EOS M5 Canon 300L f2.8 Canon 2X Converter © Keith Breazeal by Keith Breazeal, on Flickr


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## bholliman (Jun 24, 2017)

KeithBreazeal said:


> Some "mad science" taking place here. I need to go find some birds that will sit still and pose for me.



I actually used this combo a few times last winter for perched birds and it performed well. The small camera and grip make it a bit unwieldy to handle. 

I tried the 300 + 1.4x once as an experiment for shooting birds in flight with some geese, just to see how it would do... and let's just say I've used my 5DsR for all my BIF ever sense. The M5 performs nicely for perched birds however. Attached is a shot with the M5 with 300 f/2.8 II + 1.4xiii. I have some with my 2x as well, but don't have access to those currently.


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## AlanF (Jun 24, 2017)

That's a very sharp photo, as it should be - the M5 has an excellent sensor and focus.


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## dcm (Jul 30, 2017)

Truck rolled/slid down the hillside across the lake earlier this year - just over 1000 meters away. Thought I'd get a closer look with the M5, 100-400L II, and 2xIII on a tripod so see how the combination performed. 

Not bad near noon in 90 degree weather. You can make out the Sheriffs Office markings on the cab if you open the image and enlarge it. Only adjustment was white balance. Need to try it out on some closer subjects next time.


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