# A New Style of Camera From Canon Currently Being Tested [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 25, 2018)

```
A new Canon camera is currently in the testing phase, we’re unsure if it has made its way in the hands of any of the Explorers of Light photographers. Apparently. it’s like nothing seen previously from Canon. This information came from someone who saw one of the test cameras. There are no specifications or mention of whether or not it’s a video or stills camera, but we did get some interesting descriptions about the appearance of the camera.</p>


<ul>
<li>The camera looks “substantially dissimilar” from any other Canon camera body</li>
<li>A large DSLR-like hand-grip and is deeper/thicker than any of the existing mirrorless bodies, but doesn’t look like a DSLR at all.</li>
<li>A “modern looking” square LCD top screen, with options to display different screens and menus.</li>
<li>Announcement date internally is scheduled for September, 2018.</li>
</ul>
<p>The only thing that comes to mind for us is <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/canon-xc15-style-camera-coming-with-ef-mount-cr2/">this patent of an XC15 shaped camera with an EF mount</a>. While the image from the patent doesn’t show a top LCD, and the patent itself is for one handed removal of a lens and not about the mount or the camera it does have a large DSLR grip and is thicker than any other mirrorless.</p>
<p>This could be a new take on the XC15, or something else. Though if it resembled the XC15 in any way, I would have expected that to have been mentioned by the source. Perhaps the body was seen without a lens attached. We’ll have to wait and see if we get more information.</p>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
```


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## ClickIt_AC (Jan 25, 2018)

A Canon medium format?


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## Canoneer (Jan 25, 2018)

ClickIt_AC said:


> A Canon medium format?



That would be pretty awesome. But it would entail a significant investment on new lens production. And they'd have to think of a way to differentiate themselves from Fuji, Hassy, and Pentax. Maybe follow Leica's lead and go for a 45mm x 30mm sensor to retain the 3:2 aspect ratio of full-frame.


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## gregster (Jan 25, 2018)

Anyone remember this thread? http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=32297.0


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## Mills-hall (Jan 25, 2018)

If Canon wants to use their current ef lens for Mirrorless they will need to accommodate the longer flange focal distance. Reminiscent of the old Olympus film cameras like the IS-3 this is one way to do it. The small Sony a7 camera do not balance well with the larger prime and zoom lens.


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## Chaitanya (Jan 25, 2018)

That drawing reminds me of earlier generations of Powershot cameras esp Pro 70 or Pro 90 IS.


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## IglooEater (Jan 25, 2018)

gregster said:


> Anyone remember this thread? http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=32297.0



Yes, I’ve still got it bookmarked to check up on April 4 2019, as the OP said it would come to light in two or three years max (posted in April 2016) ;D


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## IglooEater (Jan 25, 2018)

It’s good to hear that canon is still thinking out of the box in regards to handling, ergonomicss, form factor, etc. The current DSLR setup is incredibly good, but who knows if something better might not exist in the future.


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## cpreston (Jan 25, 2018)

If it looks like an XC15 and shoots like XC15, it is an XC15. Or XC20.

That is a picture of a video focused camera. If somebody showed it to me without the attached article expressing confusion about what it could be, I would say it was an XC15.


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## [email protected] (Jan 25, 2018)

Just a note on this sort of design...

That key element of this design is that the direction of the lens operates somewhat independently from the grip. The problem with that sort of design is that the grip very often is constant with the camera operators face, so it makes less sense to have the screen on the lens part of the two-part structure, as that screen will move in and out of view of the operator. A better variant of this design would be for the monitor to be placed on the *grip* part, and the lens to be slewed independently of the rest. You can solve that issue by having an articulated screen, but then you need to operate three different components, aspects, and that sounds very wearying. 

That said, if you were using a very large lens, you would have problems with the lens being the non-gripped, articulating element. Interesting design conundrum.


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## Dfunk99 (Jan 25, 2018)

Looks kind of like the Pro 1 from the drawing.


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## tmroper (Jan 25, 2018)

Canoneer said:


> ClickIt_AC said:
> 
> 
> > A Canon medium format?
> ...



Personally I don't think a 3:2 aspect ratio would be awesome at all. Many people who shoot MF (film or digital) like the wider aspect ratio for shooting people. It's also closer to the old 8x10 and 11x14 standards. Now, I realize digital has changed things a lot, and "standards" don't really mean as much. But I for one would like a camera where I don't always have to crop to get the aspect ratio I like, and in the process waste so many pixels/resolution that I'm paying for in a sensor. Maybe those who like the 3:2 ratio should have to crop for a change


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## CanonGrunt (Jan 25, 2018)

The handgrip on the side looks detachable. It pretty much looks likes a mini c100 with no top handle, and a little bit more towards DSLR style than the C series, but it definitely looks similar to a c100.


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## unfocused (Jan 25, 2018)

Chaitanya said:


> That drawing reminds me of earlier generations of Powershot cameras esp Pro 70 or Pro 90 IS.





CanonGrunt said:


> The handgrip on the side looks detachable. It pretty much looks likes a mini c100 with no top handle, and a little bit more towards DSLR style than the C series, but it definitely looks similar to a c100.





Dfunk99 said:


> Looks kind of like the Pro 1 from the drawing.



Guys, that isn't the camera. That's just a drawing that CR Guy recycled from a patent illustration, totally unrelated.


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## Canoneer (Jan 25, 2018)

tmroper said:


> Canoneer said:
> 
> 
> > ClickIt_AC said:
> ...



I prefer the 4:3 ratio as well. But if Canon opted for a 3:2 medium format system with 45x30 dimensions, then they could adapt every single lens for the other MF cameras on it due to the smaller image circle (645 mount, XCD mount, GF mount, and the Leica S mount). Provided of course that it's a mirrorless body - I'm pretty sure it would have to be.

But I doubt it's a medium format camera. Probably a new cinema camera like a lot of people are guessing.


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## mb66energy (Jan 25, 2018)

Let's me think about a rough artists concept ... an artists rough concept I made 5 years ago - see image below and submitted some years ago ( https://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=7114.msg131220#msg131220 ).

Now I would like to have sth. like a 12mm extension ring as adapter to get EF flange distance (reusing old glass!) but I would like to have the ring around the mount in such a beast to set e.g. the aperture. While using mostly primes or a zoom with preset focal length AND AF I have the left hand free to choose one parameter without any effort (like 30 years ago with FD lenses).
Now I am really back in the "100mm Macro (equiv) can do 95% for me camp" - no longer ultrawide and long tele addicted.

In general I think the SL2 is really close to that design. Compared to the D77 it has a more comfortable grip but they cut away some 15mm from the left side to keep overall size small.


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## 3dit0r (Jan 25, 2018)

Most likely the Canon FF mirrorless which is supposed to be appearing around Sept 2018. The image accompanying the post seems to have caused a lot of confusion, but the actual description doesn't mention body which rotates separately to the grip, just a camera with a deep grip which looks different to a Canon DSLR. So, most likely, a new mirrorless then?


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## CanonGrunt (Jan 25, 2018)

unfocused said:


> Chaitanya said:
> 
> 
> > That drawing reminds me of earlier generations of Powershot cameras esp Pro 70 or Pro 90 IS.
> ...




Whoops. Well, I like it anyway...


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## jmoya (Jan 25, 2018)

This may pose a problem if you're using larger lenses as the body will be wanting to tip/swivel downward.


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## AvTvM (Jan 25, 2018)

well, it looks about as bulky, fat, fugly and so totally opposite to my idea of a Canon mirrorless I'd want to buy that it may well be the real thing ... genuine Canon  ;D


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## Talys (Jan 25, 2018)

cpreston said:


> If it looks like an XC15 and shoots like XC15, it is an XC15. Or XC20.
> 
> That is a picture of a video focused camera. If somebody showed it to me without the attached article expressing confusion about what it could be, I would say it was an XC15.



Except then, it wouldn't be substantially different than. Any Canon body ever made. There's nothing at all to say that the new body will look like that drawing.


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## CanoKnight (Jan 26, 2018)

Per CanonNews site, Canon has filed a patent for a 'variety of high end APS-C zoom lenses' (Dec 2017) :

14-35 2.8
9-22 2.8
10-35 2.8-3.5
18-80 4.0
18-75 4.0
12-30 2.8

APS-C dslrs have been around for ages, but why these many high end zooms all of a sudden ? Hm.. I recall seeing a post here (CR) that Canon will be launching an ILC type video oriented *system* slated for later this year. The system is supposedly positioned below CinemaEOS (read smaller than super35 sensor). Coupling that with Canon's announcement that 4k in the 7d3 will involve a 'slight crop' of an APS-C sensor leads me to think Canon's new system will be a sub APS-C ( a new format) prosumer oriented video ILC system with an EF compatible mount and that their first camera will launch with an introductory set of zooms (two or more from the above).


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## eosuser1234 (Jan 26, 2018)

Could be a mirrorless camera, that has magnetic lock style adapters, could take all EF-M, EF-S, and EF lens. The adaptor has a mirrorlock, so for those who want to use EF they can, and they dont have to feel that adaptor gets in the way all the argument a 100x again.

Thats what it looks like to me.


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## AvTvM (Jan 26, 2018)

CanoKnight said:


> Per CanonNews site, Canon has filed a patent for a 'variety of high end APS-C zoom lenses' (Dec 2017) :
> 
> 14-35 2.8
> 9-22 2.8
> ...



Hope it is for EF-M, not EF-S. Would buy an EF-M 18-75 or 80/*constant 4.0 * IS STM any time. 8)


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## mistaspeedy (Jan 26, 2018)

One way that Canon could differentiate themselves in the medium format space is to have a larger sensor (and lenses).
They could make a 0.5x crop camera with a 3:2 aspect ratio that is exactly 2x the width and 2x the height of current full frame. 
Make it compatible with EF lenses (adapter) so you can take images that use the entire EF image circle (obviously there will be a lot of 'black' area with no coverage), and then crop out the aspect ratio you want later.


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## AvTvM (Jan 26, 2018)

if anything, they could be the first company to offer a 60mm x 60mm "true medium format" square sensor. THAT would be the only worthwhile market niche i can see for "Canon MF". All other niches are well under control of competitors.


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## DJL329 (Jan 26, 2018)

cpreston said:


> If it looks like an XC15 and shoots like XC15, it is an XC15. Or XC20.
> 
> That is a picture of a video focused camera. If somebody showed it to me without the attached article expressing confusion about what it could be, I would say it was an XC15.



That was my first thought, as well...


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## Mikehit (Jan 26, 2018)

is this Harryfilm's prediction....?


Just sayin'....


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 26, 2018)

Mikehit said:


> is this Harryfilm's prediction....?



He confidently stated the Canon MF camera will be a 1-series body style.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 26, 2018)

AvTvM said:


> if anything, they could be the first company to offer a 60mm x 60mm "true medium format" square sensor. THAT would be the only worthwhile market niche i can see for "Canon MF". All other niches are well under control of competitors.



Just like the MILC market was well under the control of competitors? 5 years after entering it, Canon had grown to the #2 spot globally.


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## canonnews (Jan 26, 2018)

AvTvM said:


> CanoKnight said:
> 
> 
> > Per CanonNews site, Canon has filed a patent for a 'variety of high end APS-C zoom lenses' (Dec 2017) :
> ...



they were EF-S


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## Hector1970 (Jan 26, 2018)

I'd say it's really much smaller than it looks and is Canon's first micro 4/3 camera.
It will make the M6 look huge


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## HarryFilm (Jan 27, 2018)

Mills-hall said:


> If Canon wants to use their current ef lens for Mirrorless they will need to accommodate the longer flange focal distance. Reminiscent of the old Olympus film cameras like the IS-3 this is one way to do it. The small Sony a7 camera do not balance well with the larger prime and zoom lens.



---

I think I will say .... I TOLD YOU SO !!!!

I'm an PRETTY SURE this is the 50 Megapixel Medium Format 25 fps stills camera with Super-HIGH ISO that I was informed about from on-line documents leaked by the Germany/Netherlands photo-enthusiasts group named "Eigenvector" 

So to re-iterate what SEEMS to be coming down the pipeline:

- 56mm by 42mm CMOS Bayer Sensor MIRRORLESS camera !!!!

- 16 bits per colour channel (i.e. 48-bit colour) 4:4:4 at 8192 x 6036 pixels (4:3 aspect ratio)

- JPEG-2000 Wavelet based image compression for stills photo in addition to RAW 444

- 6.82 Microns per sensor photosite with 5% improvement in light gathering capability over Canon 1Dxmk2 (i.e. even lower noise in shadows)

- 25 FPS Burst Shooting Rate with a 5 second buffer! (the 5 second buffer is a new stat from the Eigenvector group)

- Articulated OLED touchscreen (i.e. 1920 by 1200 pixels) with selectable DPAF region selection on ANY PART of screen

- Internal SSD Flash-based Hard Drive Storage in the terabyte range!

- Internal GPS and 3D-XYZ MEMS orientiation sensor recording position and camera orientation metadata at user-defined number of frame-based intervals to video file.

- 4K video with full sensor sample (i.e. NO crop sensor sampling) for 60 fps at 4:2:2 10 bits per colour channel and Clog 1/2/3

- 2nd Version of Camera will be sold as a 120 Megapixel landscape oriented photo system with 8-to-10 fps for 120 megapixel photos!

- Multiple very large diameter L-series prime lenses to be released at the same time

- Priced probably between 12 000 to 16 000 Euros at introduction which is HALF the price of a Hasselblad but does 25 FPS at 50 megapixels! That would be the CAMERA OF THE YEAR at 25 fps 50 megapixels!

I am PROBABLY CORRECT in that this was a REAL LEAK about a VERY REAL Canon Medium Format super-stills camera from the Eigenvector group! I should note what I personally thought what I saw online looked more like a really LARGE Canon 1DxMk2 rather than an XC15 --- I can't be sure on that anymore because it was quite a while ago...

Again....I TOLD YOU SO !!!!


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 27, 2018)

Canon Rumors said:


> The camera looks *“substantially dissimilar” from any other Canon camera body*
> A large DSLR-like hand-grip and is deeper/thicker than any of the existing mirrorless bodies, but *doesn’t look like a DSLR at all.*






HarryFilm said:


> I think I will say .... I TOLD YOU SO !!!!
> 
> I'm an PRETTY SURE this is the 50 Megapixel Medium Format 25 fps stills camera with Super-HIGH ISO that I was informed about from on-line documents leaked by the Germany/Netherlands photo-enthusiasts group named "Eigenvector"
> 
> Again....I TOLD YOU SO !!!!



What did you tell us? Let's check...



HarryFilm said:


> This is a reformatted copy of an email sent to me from colleagues in the Netherlands and Germany in Early 2017 *** CONFIRMING *** that an in-the-wild test prototype was seen in Munich, Germany during a Football match (that's soccer for you Americans!) that was ALSO CONFIRMED via an earlier-in-year and later-in-year PHYSICAL closeup examination of a similar system to be a MEDIUM FORMAT CANON CAMERA that has a very large CMOS sensor in a *body style very similar to a Canon 1Dx Mark II camera* but of course larger in size to accommodate the larger sensor and lenses.



Thanks for *** CONFIRMING *** that you were wrong, and now it's ALSO CONFIRMED that you don't know what you're talking about. Not that this comes as a surprise to anyone. :


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## Orangutan (Jan 27, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > The camera looks *“substantially dissimilar” from any other Canon camera body*
> ...



We need a new word for what HarryFilm is doing: he's not really trolling to get people agitated, it's more like he's spinning yarns to amuse us, like the old boat captain character in the Non Sequitur comic strip. Maybe we could call it "strolling" when people engage in cheeky leg-pulling and story-telling.


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## Mikehit (Jan 27, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > The camera looks *“substantially dissimilar” from any other Canon camera body*
> ...



It a black box with a lens on the front. Where was he wrong?


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## snoke (Jan 27, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> What did you tell us? Let's check...
> 
> 
> 
> ...



How you know he not right?
Where your evidence to show he wrong?
Posts months apart. Canon have many test cameras, yes? Possible both right?
Try think positive.

All consumer know is what make product, not what test.


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## Orangutan (Jan 27, 2018)

snoke said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > What did you tell us? Let's check...
> ...



The burden is on him to show that he's right, given his confident statements and history of being wrong about timelines. The evidence we do have does not support his claims.

I think he's just having a bit of harmless fun. Maybe we should pile on like the reviews for the Three Wolf Moon t-shirt at Amazon.


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## mb66energy (Jan 27, 2018)

"... by the Germany/Netherlands photo-enthusiasts group named "Eigenvector" "

A little bit off topic but ...

I never understood the importance of Eigenvectors and Eigenvalues in math and physics. After 15 years of it related jobs after studying physics I am now physics teacher and try to understand all the stuff again and additionally from the perspectives of 10 ... 19 year old students.

After reading a little bit of articles about eigenvectors and eigenvalues I am a stop closer to understanding that from the mathematical & physics perspective. Thanks for mentioning the term Eigenvector to HarryFilm and chewing parts of his post again and again.


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## bwud (Jan 27, 2018)

mb66energy said:


> "... by the Germany/Netherlands photo-enthusiasts group named "Eigenvector" "
> 
> A little bit off topic but ...
> 
> I never understood the importance of Eigenvectors and Eigenvalues in math and physics.



Six words: finite element analysis (among other uses)


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## HarryFilm (Jan 27, 2018)

> The burden is on him to show that he's right, given his confident statements and history of being wrong about timelines. The evidence we do have does not support his claims.



I don't have to produce ANY evidence for my claims!
This is NOT a legal forum. I saw what I saw and to me it looked like an oversized 1Dxmk2 rather than this XC-15 look-alike. I was more harping on the possible specs which I have long-espoused which I THINK AND BELIEVE ARE CORRECT!

Did I not also make some claims regarding the Canon C700 cinema camera?
Yeah, I agree it looked nothing like I described originally BUT it seems the specs I regurgitated from various online sources were ALMOST SPOT-ON!

My sources seem pretty spec-heavy, which to me indicates that the data is probably NEARLY SPOT-ON even if the "Look and Feel" of the possible Canon MF camera will probably be something completely different than we expect!

It's that 25 fps at 50 megapixels with a 5 second buffer using JPEG-2000 4:4:4 Wavelet compression specification that intrigues me! With that sort of spec, WHO CARES what the camera looks like in the end! I just want GREAT low-light large sensor shooting of sports/action/wildlife AT THAT 25 fps high quality JPEG-2000 image quality !!!

OBVIOUSLY, Canon is coming out with SOMETHING Medium Format-like! I just hope that the specs above ARE dead-on so I can cheerfully get some decent loan/lease terms when I EAGERLY go and buy it!


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## Orangutan (Jan 27, 2018)

HarryFilm said:


> > The burden is on him to show that he's right, given his confident statements and history of being wrong about timelines. The evidence we do have does not support his claims.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Of course, I didn't mean it in that sense: you have no legal obligation. What I meant to say is that if you want us to believe you then you'll need to produce evidence, especially considering the fact that your previous, forcefully asserted claims have come to nothing. 



> I saw what I saw and to me it looked like an oversized 1Dxmk2


That's certainly an interesting story, it'll be great if it proves out.



> My sources seem pretty spec-heavy, which to me indicates that the data is probably NEARLY SPOT-ON


It's easy to write spec-heavy, detailed fiction. For example: https://www.amazon.com/BLUEPRINTS-STAR-GENERATION-NCC-1701-D-Generation/dp/0671500937/



> OBVIOUSLY, Canon is coming out with SOMETHING Medium Format-like!


I believe you've said you're trained as an engineer, so please take the following in light of that. When I was an undergrad student, my physics professor used to say "if it's obvious, you'll have no trouble proving it." This is the core of science: assertion, however sincere and well-intended, is no substitute for publicly-presented evidence. If you've seen the camera that's mildly interesting; when we all see it (or some very good photos) then we can call that evidence.


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## scyrene (Jan 27, 2018)

HarryFilm said:


> Mills-hall said:
> 
> 
> > If Canon wants to use their current ef lens for Mirrorless they will need to accommodate the longer flange focal distance. Reminiscent of the old Olympus film cameras like the IS-3 this is one way to do it. The small Sony a7 camera do not balance well with the larger prime and zoom lens.
> ...



Oh, you've been let out on day release then?


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## scyrene (Jan 27, 2018)

snoke said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > What did you tell us? Let's check...
> ...



We know he'S not right because he is evidently a serial fantasist, and his posts bear no relation to reality.


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## 3kramd5 (Jan 27, 2018)

“OBVIOUSLY, Canon is coming out with SOMETHING Medium Format-like!”

Nothing based on wish and conjecture can be considered “obvious,” but maybe you left enough wiggle room with the “-like” modifier.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 28, 2018)

HarryFilm said:


> I saw what I saw and to me it looked like an oversized 1Dxmk2 rather than this XC-15 look-alike.



Yet you jumped on this rumor of a new camera design that looks nothing like any current Canon camera, and started shouting, "I told you so," like a petulant child.


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## HarryFilm (Jan 28, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> HarryFilm said:
> 
> 
> > I saw what I saw and to me it looked like an oversized 1Dxmk2 rather than this XC-15 look-alike.
> ...



===

The problem is.....that I made a SIMILAR statement of hardware statistics with the Cinema EOS C700 Camera which for the most part, were pretty spot-on! The "Real" C700 camera, of course, looked NOTHING LIKE that C500 look-alike photo that was bandied about in various forums...BUT AGAIN...the stats were almost spot-on.

This is why I grabbed onto the Canon Medium Format Bandwagon...Looking at the drawing of the hand holding the camera...it seems a bit larger in size than the actual current XC-10/XC-15 cameras and it seems that lens diameter on the drawing seems MUCH LARGER than a 35mm EF lens-mount!

This is WHY I think the coming camera is going to be a medium format system.
Again, what I saw in an online forum last year, in my opinion, DID NOT look like this camera drawing but rather an oversized 1D Mk2 ...that said...it might mean Canon MAY HAVE changed its design over the period of time I last mentioned the system. ....OR....there is the possibility that a 2nd type of system is being designed: One for Stills and One for Large Sensor Video!

I should note, there have been times at NAB where I have heard that Canon is "Looking At" moving into Arri Alexa-65 territory but at HALF the cost! (i know Alexa-65 is rental only BUT if it was sold it would a $90,000 camera system!)
I would not be surprised to see that a $45 000 U.S. cost medium format sensor 8K VIDEO camera is also being prototyped now! This latest Canon Drawing MAY BE just that sort of video camera! And a separate MF stills-oriented camera looking more like a 1D series is ALSO being design and/or tested!

You have to admit that lens diameter compared to the hand DOES look a little large for a Full Frame or APC-C size!


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## AvTvM (Jan 28, 2018)

would not be atypical for Canon if they now were to enter MF market ... way late, well behind Fuji GFX ... instead of before ... as to not let new/additional competitors get a foot on the ground ... but we shall see.

Personally i don't care about big, fat "MF" cameras at all. All i *and [presumably] millions of other potential buyers around the globe* want is a very compact and highly capable FF mirrorless system ... ideally with Sony sensor, Canon UI and Canon glass. ;D


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 28, 2018)

AvTvM said:


> All i *and [presumably] millions of other potential buyers around the globe* is a very compact and highly capable FF mirrorless system ... ideally with Sony sensor, Canon UI and Canon glass. ;D



I felt a great disturbance in the Optic, as if millions of potential buyers' voices suddenly cried out in terror, and were suddenly silenced. I fear something terrible has happened.


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## snoke (Jan 28, 2018)

Orangutan said:


> The burden is on him to show that he's right, given his confident statements and history of being wrong about timelines. The evidence we do have does not support his claims.



Only person who say wrong is neutronamist about test camera. Test cameras never public. Stupid to say someone wrong about it. Can't know. Can't prove. Just call it CR1 or CR0. Move on.

Look new rumor. Messy. Canon try many new things?

He says right about C700 specs. Someone check it?


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## Orangutan (Jan 28, 2018)

snoke said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > The burden is on him to show that he's right, given his confident statements and history of being wrong about timelines. The evidence we do have does not support his claims.
> ...



I think you answered your own question: by his language, he's asserting that this is CR3+. I'm merely asking him why he wants us to believe it's not CR0 or CR1.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 28, 2018)

snoke said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > The burden is on him to show that he's right, given his confident statements and history of being wrong about timelines. The evidence we do have does not support his claims.
> ...



I believe that he's full of the proverbial stinking pile of bovine manure, but where did I say he was wrong about the test camera? I said he was wrong to claim that this rumor (the topic of this thread – about a new non-dSLR form factor) supports his previous statements about a Canon medium format camera which he claimed looked just like a larger 1D X II. Do you believe this current rumor supports his claim? If so, I suppose you also believe the word 'gullible' is not in the dictionary.


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## unfocused (Jan 28, 2018)

HarryFilm said:


> ...Looking at the drawing of the hand holding the camera...it seems a bit larger in size than the actual current XC-10/XC-15 cameras and it seems that lens diameter on the drawing seems MUCH LARGER than a 35mm EF lens-mount!
> 
> This is WHY I think the coming camera is going to be a medium format system...



Here we go again. Pay attention! The drawing is NOT of the supposed camera. It is a patent drawing that CR Guy recycled for this thread. No relationship to the actual, alleged camera.


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## jolyonralph (Jan 28, 2018)

unfocused said:


> Here we go again. Pay attention! The drawing is NOT of the supposed camera. It is a patent drawing that CR Guy recycled for this thread. No relationship to the actual, alleged camera.



It probably would have been smarter not to have included that drawing. Too many people don't actually read these days


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## HarryFilm (Jan 29, 2018)

unfocused said:


> HarryFilm said:
> 
> 
> > ...Looking at the drawing of the hand holding the camera...it seems a bit larger in size than the actual current XC-10/XC-15 cameras and it seems that lens diameter on the drawing seems MUCH LARGER than a 35mm EF lens-mount!
> ...



---

I knew it was a patent drawing, but what I DID NOT KNOW is that it was a recycled one form a long while back!

Still.....if it's the patent drawing for the XC-10/XC-15 camera styles, there SHOULD be some representation of the future direction of Canon. I suspect the engineer who had this drawing done was looking at their specifications and SCALED the drawing to the intended final size of a CURRENT or FUTURE product sitting on some test bench.

And based upon the diameter of the lens compared to the drawing of the human hand holding the camera, AND after I took a further look into how big an X10/XC15 is in the real world, the lens diameter IS LARGER than normal!

Soooo, if the recycled drawing was used in an EARLIER XC-series patent application, I suspect then AT LEAST SINCE 2015 it has Canon prototyping and probably TESTING a real world product that spans quite the future-forward direction. I suspect then that THIS DRAWING is the LIKELY design direction of FUTURE Canon small form factor video cameras and POSSIBLY stills cameras!

If if this is the case, then I expect ANY future MF or high end 8k video camera to likely follow this form factor. There will ALWAYS be a market for a large C300, C500 or C700 style body for higher end productions but I think Canon may have a WINNER with a smaller form factor such as what is displayed being used for BOTH video and Stills be it 35mm FF, 50mm or 65mm+ sized sensors! 

I don't think Canon will goto a full Arri-sized sensor which is HUGE! ...BUT...A 50mm or so size would be a good compromise between ultra high end Phase-One/Hasselblad/Alexa-65 sensors and the Full Frame sensors. 

It ALSO SEEMS the EF-style mount would STILL work at something the size needed for 50 to 65mm sensors so I again I would not be surprised to see a larger lenses. AND I would not be surprised to see if they can't reduce the weight by going to all-magnesium alloy lenses, all-alloy bodies and super light weight CERAMIC GLASS (i.e. Al2O3) for the optics so the pros will be more interested in switching to the bigger system if the weight is only a little more than as the FF systems.

ANYWAYS....if that likely Canon MF format camera DOES ACTUALLY HAVE a 25 fps at 50 megapixel burst rate then I can say that AT LEAST 30% of the current Canon pro sports/action/wildlife photogs WILL SWITCH OVER almost right away because of FASTER SHOOTING SPEED and GREATER LIGHT GATHERING ability of the larger sensor size!

Canon would literally KILL Hasselblad and Phase-one dead in one fell swoop if that 25 fps at 50 megapixels specification is actually TRUE! Even MORE SO if the 2nd version came out at the same time with a 120 megapixels MF sensor size at 8-to-10 fps!

Anyways....SOMETHING INTERESTING IS COMING FROM CANON..... and my earlier stated camera specifications are PROBABLY GOING TO BE SPOT-ON even IF the final MF camera does NOT look like an outsize 1D mk2!!!


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## deleteme (Jan 29, 2018)

I am casting my lot for those who are voting for an XC-15 type video camera with an EFmount.

While it is tempting to fantasize about Canon making a kitchen sink fanboy wet dream, judging from their history of conservative development that is not what they would do.

They have a very large user base that by and large is happy with incremental change and a wild card camera is exactly what would scare off a lot of the base.


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## Orangutan (Jan 29, 2018)

HarryFilm said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Here we go again. Pay attention! The drawing is NOT of the supposed camera. It is a patent drawing that CR Guy recycled for this thread. No relationship to the actual, alleged camera.



"I DID NOT KNOW"
+ "I suspect the engineer"
+ "the drawing of the human hand"
+ "I suspect then AT LEAST SINCE 2015"
+ "I expect ANY future MF"
+ "I don't think Canon will goto"
+ "It ALSO SEEMS"
+ "again I would not be surprised to see"
-----------------------------------------------------
[CR0]


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## midluk (Jan 29, 2018)

HarryFilm said:


> Still.....if it's the patent drawing for the XC-10/XC-15 camera styles, there SHOULD be some representation of the future direction of Canon. I suspect the engineer who had this drawing done was looking at their specifications and SCALED the drawing to the intended final size of a CURRENT or FUTURE product sitting on some test bench.
> 
> And based upon the diameter of the lens compared to the drawing of the human hand holding the camera, AND after I took a further look into how big an X10/XC15 is in the real world, the lens diameter IS LARGER than normal!



I don't know much about patents, but I would expect drawings with parts out of proportion to be a method to disguise what you are planning. So the size of a lens housing in a patent application that is not about lens housings does mean nothing, or it is even more likely not the correct size.


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## AvTvM (Jan 29, 2018)

HarryFilm said:


> Canon would literally KILL Hasselblad and Phase-one dead in one fell swoop if that 25 fps at 50 megapixels specification is actually TRUE! Even MORE SO if the 2nd version came out at the same time with a 120 megapixels MF sensor size at 8-to-10 fps!



I agree. BUT am still not convinced MF would be a truly profitable business proposition for Canon. Market simply too small, even 100% of it. For a large company like Canon. Small niches are game for (somewhat) smaller players ... 

so ... don't believe Canon will launch MF system ... and agree with this: 



Normalnorm said:


> I am casting my lot for those who are voting for an XC-15 type video camera with an EFmount.
> While it is tempting to fantasize about Canon making a kitchen sink fanboy wet dream, judging from their history of conservative development that is not what they would do.
> They have a very large user base that by and large is happy with incremental change ....



... as evidenced by scores of mirrorslapping, no adapters, Canon-apologists around here ... and by Canon market share as they love to point out  ;D


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## snoke (Jan 29, 2018)

neuroanatomist said:


> snoke said:
> 
> 
> > Orangutan said:
> ...



He post again. You right.


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## HarryFilm (Jan 29, 2018)

AvTvM said:


> HarryFilm said:
> 
> 
> > Canon would literally KILL Hasselblad and Phase-one dead in one fell swoop if that 25 fps at 50 megapixels specification is actually TRUE! Even MORE SO if the 2nd version came out at the same time with a 120 megapixels MF sensor size at 8-to-10 fps!
> ...



=====

It's no longer a "Niche Market" if 30%+ of the pro-level Canon Sports, Action and Wildlife Photographers switch over from the 1D-series to a Canon 50 megapixel 25 fps Medium Format Camera. 400,000 Users switching within one to two years years at up to 16 000 Euros is over 6 400 000 000 Euros or Almost 8 BILLION US DOLLARS! That is a market ANY manufacturer would loooooove to have!

In fact, I say it's a NO BRAINER FOR CANON to offer a Medium Format Camera as a higher end version to the 1D-series....BUT AGAIN....the ABSOLUTE KEY FEATURES are 25 FPS burst rate (5 second buffer) at 50 Megapixels and 4K (4096x2160 pixels) at 60 FPS 10-bits-per-colour-channel 4:2:2 video sampled from the ENTIRE sensor (i.e. NO crop sensor sampling). 

Those two features ABSOLUTELY MUST be in the camera TO HAVE ANY CHANCE of bringing over the current 1D-series pros! If the stats are true then Canon has a COMPLETE WINNER on their hands!


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## Ryananthony (Jan 29, 2018)

How big would a 400/2.8 or 600/4 equivalent be if it has to cover a medium format sensor?


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## scyrene (Jan 29, 2018)

Ryananthony said:


> How big would a 400/2.8 or 600/4 equivalent be if it has to cover a medium format sensor?



I was about to say something very similar! I have seen precisely one account of someone using a MF camera for wildlife, I can't recall where they got the lens from, but it was big! Essentially it would be impossible to produce supertelephoto lenses, the bread and butter of sports and wildlife, that weren't impractially huge and heavy, for a MF system (unless there is some paradigm shift in optics, which is unlikely in the near term).


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## AvTvM (Jan 30, 2018)

scyrene said:


> Ryananthony said:
> 
> 
> > How big would a 400/2.8 or 600/4 equivalent be if it has to cover a medium format sensor?
> ...



totally agree with you here .. for once 

... except ... last half sentence ... it may still be a while .. and maybe never find its way into "consumer" imaging gear ... but ... paradigm shift in optics is getting closer: https://www.seas.harvard.edu/news/2018/01/single-metalens-focuses-all-colors-of-rainbow-in-one-point

But ... whether such a metalens can adequately replace a 600mm eq. lens for the "soon to be released 120MP Canon MF camera" ... is yet another question. ;D


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## HarryFilm (Jan 30, 2018)

scyrene said:


> Ryananthony said:
> 
> 
> > How big would a 400/2.8 or 600/4 equivalent be if it has to cover a medium format sensor?
> ...



====

I can tell you from a materials perspective that by going to full magnesium alloys and using different formulations of "Glass" aka AL203 or OTHER fully transparent ceramic, it is FULLY POSSIBLE for Canon to keep the weight for BOTH the lenses and body to not that much more than a fully loaded 1DxMk2.

In terms of size, the physical dimensions of a Medium Format sensor requires a lens diameter of about 1.7x the diameter of the current system so it wouldn't be too bad physical size-wise. By using some of the folding optics used in modern astronomical photography systems, I would suggest to you that a 600mm f4 telephoto would maybe be only 10% to 15% longer than the current lens. Weight-wise, it might even BE LIGHTER than the current 600mm IF the ceramic glass is used for the optics and all-magnesium alloy is used for the lens barrel and internal metal parts!

I actually would not be surprised if the final weight of a 25 fps 50 megapixel and 50x42mm sensor Canon MF camera comes down to being near-equivalent to a similarly outfitted 1DxMk2!

Anyways...We shall see SOON ENOUGH !!!


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## dp3294 (Jan 30, 2018)

LOL at including a random drawing that has nothing to do with the article which confuses everybody.


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## jeffa4444 (Jan 30, 2018)

The issues for MF are a. Wide angles and b. F stops so I don't see Canon going down this route not since the arrival of the 5DS/r and a prototype higher MP camera at the last Photokina. 

If Canon are making a mirrorless camera to take EF lenses then they may well play around with the packaging to deliver something more useful for video whilst still able to take high quality stills.


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