# Next Canon Flashes With Exposure Based on Color Temperature?



## Canon Rumors Guy (Nov 20, 2011)

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<strong>The Next Speedlite

</strong>A patent has shown up explaining a technology that could appear in future Canon flashes.</p>
<p>The replacement of the 580EX II is said to be a quantum leap forward as far as flash technology goes. Weâ€™re all eagerly awaiting it.</p>
<p><strong>Patent Information (Translated)</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Patent Publication No. 2011-232461</li>
<li>Published 2011.11.17</li>
<li>Filing date 2010.4.26</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>How to determine the flash exposure</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>Capacitor (GN), sensitivity ISO, aperture by calculating the distance</li>
<li>If the flash can adjust the RGB primary colors, not for its calculations</li>
<li>Based on the color temperature is set to flash, strobe light to calculate the distance</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Source [<a href="http://egami.blog.so-net.ne.jp/2011-11-21">EG</a>]</strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


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## tt (Nov 20, 2011)

To play devil's advocate - would the 580 EX II be better improved by looking at Pocket Wizards, and building in a better wireless system to the flash (and then having say a flash mount controller ala AC3 Zone controller)?

Doesn't a gel work better? Or knowing white/grey/black, and then adjusting afterwards. Would a flash changing temperature make post corrections harder or easier?


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## Gothmoth (Nov 20, 2011)

itÂ´s time for build in wireless RADIO TTL.

infrared sucks and with expensive third party stuff like the pocket wizards you canÂ´t be sure it will be 100% compatible in the future.

build in radio TTL would bring canon ahead of nikon.
nikons flash system is today way better then canons.


by the way... maybe itÂ´s my bad english or the lack of information but the stuff about exposure based on color temperature makes no real sense for me.

or it will be the case that changing the color temperature OF THE FLASH will also change the guide number.
so the flash would have different power output for white, red or blue light (etc).


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## grabbedlight (Nov 20, 2011)

I just don't get why you need "strobe light to calculate the distance"...


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## TexPhoto (Nov 21, 2011)

With todays flash, you get one temperature of light from the flash, and another from the ambient light. Your foreground and background will then have different light temperatures on them making color correction difficult, even from the RAW photo.

So... a flash that could mimic the color of the ambient light, would mean foreground and background could then both be corrected with the same fix, or the camera could do it automatically.

Sounds very high-tech, and like the kind of thing I would never use.


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## branden (Nov 21, 2011)

That's what gels are for.


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## gmrza (Nov 21, 2011)

TexPhoto said:


> With todays flash, you get one temperature of light from the flash, and another from the ambient light. Your foreground and background will then have different light temperatures on them making color correction difficult, even from the RAW photo.
> 
> So... a flash that could mimic the color of the ambient light, would mean foreground and background could then both be corrected with the same fix, or the camera could do it automatically.
> 
> Sounds very high-tech, and like the kind of thing I would never use.



This would be a wedding photographer's dream. Not having to use gels would remove one extra piece of work.

I would like to see the flash get the exposure right when you are bouncing it off something that is _not completely white_ - which is what happens most of the time. My guess is that a pre-flash would be necessary to attempt to get that right.


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## distant.star (Nov 21, 2011)

Maybe I was Flash Gordon in a prior life....

But it seems to me like this should have been done long ago. I can hardly believe past technologies lodged limitations against this. We've known a lot about light for a long time now.

Maybe a reason I resist flash so vehemently is because the current flash product is so primitive. 

Let's get this technology parade on the road, folks!


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## pwp (Nov 21, 2011)

It's just a minimal amount of detail to work with, but if it works even MOST of the time this would be brilliant. Sure, I'm happy clip gels onto my Profotos or Einsteins but in real world dynamic shooting situations when I'm working with 580's this just does not happen. 

Looking forward very much to more detailed information on this development. Regardless of what the final 580 replacement is, I'll be getting two as soon as they ship.

Paul Wright


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## willrobb (Nov 21, 2011)

I'm excited to see what the new speedlite will be able to offer us. The gels etc will be useful if they are built in, they'll encourage people who otherwise don't use them to try them out and better photos will (hopefully) result.

The infrared does suck a bit, the principle of the ST-E2 transmitter is great, setting flashes to different channels and being able to weight the flash outputs is really good....when it works anyway. Pocketwizards are pretty small, with all the money in canon's R&D department it would be nice to see future flashes (and therefore bodies as well) have this technology inbuilt. Even the same infrared ability if the 7D to work off camera flashes in future bodies and a separate radio transmitter would be nice.

Fingers crossed...


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## siebzehn (Nov 21, 2011)

My first impression was a measurement system. if you take two pictures/wb-measurements (with and without flash) you can calculate the impact of the flash because it has a defined color.
If your subject is fare away the impact of the flash is low and you have to increase the power.
This would allow more precise automatic flash adjustment. e.g. the overexposure on macro can be avoided or not to fire on landscape.


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## Ray Padden (Nov 21, 2011)

My guess is that it may have a c.t.o. and c.t.b. setting. From my days working as a lampie (lighting tech)on stage I can see how this would benefit. Having the option to change the out put from day light to tungsten would help blend the flash and available light. Thats just my guess


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## Blaze (Nov 21, 2011)

Gothmoth, it's not your English. The post is pretty much grammatically nonsensical. It seems to be poorly translated.


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## outsider (Nov 21, 2011)

So how would this adjustment of color temperature be done? 

I can only think of putting 3 flash bulbs in the head, each gelled with one primary color (RGB) and adjust the output of each flash bulb accordingly to give the desired color temperature.

Or could it be LED based instead of flash bulb? (doubtful as I don't think LED's have the light power that a flash bulb does)


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## Isaac (Nov 21, 2011)

About how much will the new flagship speedlite cost? I hope it's not going to be like a $300-$500 jump more than the 580EXII.


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## branden (Nov 21, 2011)

I don't think they can get away with charging more than they already are. The prices of the 580EXII are already in the range of (cheap) monolights, and I think they would lose sales to 3rd party studio lighting companies if they tried to push prices up higher. For portable lighting the speedlights are great, but they're also selling to people who use them to double as quick & easy & ultra-portable staged setups.


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## LeTiger (Nov 21, 2011)

Could we please stop mis-using the word "quantum" to describe a precipitable change in current-to-future technology?

It makes the post appear as written by someone who just doesn't understand how blisteringly small a quantum leap really is...

Cheers,


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## dougkerr (Nov 21, 2011)

The basic discussion in the *cr* report makes no sense to me. I fail to see the connection between color temperature and "exposure".

We may be suffering here from some "loss in translation".

In any case, Canon Speedlite flash units have for some time (I believe from the 580EX onward) reported to the body an estimate of the color temperature of the specific burst used for a shot so that the body can take this into account when doing white balance color correction.

Best regards,

Doug


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## dougkerr (Nov 22, 2011)

Hi, Dilbert,



dilbert said:


> dougkerr said:
> 
> 
> > The basic discussion in the *cr* report makes no sense to me. I fail to see the connection between color temperature and "exposure".
> ...


Yes, a flash unit with controllable chromaticity - controllable "color temperature" (CCT, actually), if you will - would be nice.

I'm not sure I get that from the description of this new machine, though - but who knows.

Best regards,

Doug


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## mccrum (Nov 22, 2011)

outsider said:


> So how would this adjustment of color temperature be done?
> 
> I can only think of putting 3 flash bulbs in the head, each gelled with one primary color (RGB) and adjust the output of each flash bulb accordingly to give the desired color temperature.
> 
> Or could it be LED based instead of flash bulb? (doubtful as I don't think LED's have the light power that a flash bulb does)


I'm thinking LED here actually. There are mass manufactured LEDs reaching into the 100 lumens per watt range, where fluorescent (currently the best lumens/watt lamp) is. Add that LEDs are low-voltage already (smaller capacitors), want to be 6000K to start, and are already a directional source (eliminating the reflector entirely) and we're pretty far down the road to what manufacturers would consider a pretty good thing. Then it just becomes a second "warm white" grouping of LEDs next to the 6000K ones and you're dialing in your color temperature quickly and easily.


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## Gothmoth (Nov 22, 2011)

LeTiger said:


> Could we please stop mis-using the word "quantum" to describe a precipitable change in current-to-future technology?
> 
> It makes the post appear as written by someone who just doesn't understand how blisteringly small a quantum leap really is...




itÂ´s not because of the distance that this is used in regular discussions.
itÂ´s because a quantum leap seems to be "discontinuous". a jump, a instant progression.


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## Gothmoth (Nov 22, 2011)

dougkerr said:


> The basic discussion in the *cr* report makes no sense to me. I fail to see the connection between color temperature and "exposure".
> 
> We may be suffering here from some "loss in translation".



yep i think so.

imho what that means is that the guide number (power output) will be different for different color temperatures the flash is set to.
therefore the exposure needs to be adjusted according to the color temperature of the flash.


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## dougkerr (Nov 22, 2011)

Hi,



Gothmoth said:


> imho what that means is that the guide number (power output) will be different for different color temperatures the flash is set to.


But what does it mean "the color temperature the flash is set to"?

Perhaps it mean that the needed output of the flash for "proper" exposure in a particular case depends on the white balance setting of the *camera*.

I'll try and get an English translation of the patent publication and see what it actually talks about.

Best regards,

Doug


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## dougkerr (Nov 22, 2011)

A colleague was kind enough to arrange for a machine translation of the Japanese patent publication.

I have not yet perused it at any length. The translation is a bit clumsy but is still very welcome.

The patent indeed refers to a flash unit using (for example) three sets of LED's so that the chromaticity of the flash burst can be set, presumably (as mentioned by one of the correspondents here) so that the flash illumination can match the chromaticity of the ambient illumination. [Note that this involves more than the correlated color temperature, although much of the discussion proceeds as if that is the only parameter of interest.].

Presumably this concept itself has been covered in earlier patents.

The thrust of *this* patent (as it seemed from the earlier characterization) is to provide for automatic flash exposure control to perform properly in this situation.

The basic idea ("matchable" flash burst chromaticity) sounds very worthwhile.

Best regards,

Doug


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## pwp (Nov 22, 2011)

branden said:


> The prices of the 580EXII are already in the range of (cheap) monolights. For portable lighting the speedlights are great, but they're also selling to people who use them to double as quick & easy & ultra-portable staged setups.



Right, they're pretty close in price to Paul C Buff Einsteins which I recently bought four of. No buyer regret there...the Einsteins are fantastic. (Happy to expand on this but getting OT)

But for 580's to be useful in staged setups, especially when used with modifiers, an external power source for each 580 is a must. Quality batteries cost as much or more than the 580 itself. 

Many of us need both mono's & speedlights. My 580ex & 580 exII are ready for retirement...I'll pre-order at least two of this new flash as soon as it's announced. 

Paul Wright


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## DavidM (Nov 23, 2011)

no one has successfully explained how the new flash system would practically work?


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## kennykodak (Jan 28, 2012)

i switched over to Canon from Nikon a few years ago. the one thing that i miss most is Nikon flash. a back light setting, the master/slave settings on the on/off switch, diffuser and color correcting filters and most of all an intelligent power port and cable mount for external batteries. anyone here ever accidentally push the one inside the unit on a 580?


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## ScottyP (Feb 27, 2012)

Hey, just duct tape a magical flash like this onto a Lytro "light field" camera, when they arrive, and you could throw all your other gear away.


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