# D500 Thoughts and Comments



## K (Jan 7, 2016)

First and foremost, it is way too early to make any definitive calls yet as the camera has not been tested. Especially given that Nikon is really big on pushing specs, but in reality falls short of those specs. Factor in all the fanatical Sonikon fanboys who are flooding the net with praise that has never been seen before creates a hype that could be a let down or reality check later on....let us begin!

1. ISO --- Any expanded ISO is automatically garbage. You can technically expand ISO all you want, and be able to publish a spec of 12,000,000 - it is meaningless. It is all about final image quality output. That said, we move to the native ISO. Like expanded modes, in most cases the highest native ISO setting, and often the highest 2 settings are often garbage also. Good enough for casual snapshots in low light, particularly when they will be size down for web - but that's about it. 

The highest native ISO setting is important because most people use it as a measure of what the sensor can do in order to then judge how clean the "normal" ISO range is - typically 100 - 6400 ISO. The idea being, if a camera has a high end of 25,600 - 3200 will be cleaner on it, than a camera with a top setting of 6,400.

That said, Nikon does pretty well on noise lately. However, this is a crop sensor. Let's remember that. It is hard to believe that a crop sensor has made essentially a 2 stop leap in image quality in one generation. Sure, Nikon downgraded the megapixels from 24 to 20, but that shouldn't give them a 1 stop boost over their best 24mp sensors.

All in all, I expect this sensor to produce the best IQ ever seen from a crop sensor - but physics are physics and it is still a crop sensor. I would not expect more than a 1/2 stop improvement over the best crop image quality currently available. Realistically, probably just a 10-20% improvement, which would still be significant.

All the expanded ISO nonsense is likely in tandem with what might be some better JPG noise reduction tech is my guess. Canon for a long time has had incredible JPG quality and noise reduction. Of course, that has been overshadowed be the legions of vloggers screaming to shoot only RAW or you're a wannabe. I don't see 1 million ISO in RAW format from a crop sensor being even slightly usable. There must be a lot of software enhancement going on.

Yes, Nikon is ahead on sensor tech over Canon, yes it is newer than the 7D2, but to say it is 2 stops better than the 7D2 is hard to believe. Especially when the 7D2 closed the gap with FF by quite a bit. If NIkon's claims are true, the big story no one is talking about is how the D500 is going to murder all low end FF camera sales if it has IQ that good. And, it stands to reason the next gen of FF, given the same sensor tech, will start to approach medium format quality. 

I don't think so. But hey, I hope so. If the IQ is that good, it will match current generation FF and I'll buy one. Not holding my breath on that.


2. -4 EV focus. Big win here. If it really works that well in that kind of dark, that is awesome.

3. XQD and SD ---

Two parts -

A. Good job Nikon on offering 2 card slots yet again on a $2K or less camera. Meanwhile, Canon's fullframe rumored 6D2 will sport one lousy SD card. Really, truly shameful by Canon on that.

B. A lot of criticism of the type of slots. I think this is the most ingenious combo and most practical. Yes, I think it sucks to have to buy expensive new cards, but it doesn't have to be that way. This arrangement offers the most flexibility. With such an arrangement, I personally would put in one large XQD card and use that as full time backup. It would basically become like the camera's internal SSD storage. SD card would be the main go to card for 95% of everything. When needed, (4K or extreme rapid fire sports shooting) the XQD card offers the faster write speeds to get the most out of the camera. Figure it like this, better to have and not need, than need and not have.

It is the best of all worlds. The reason this is criticized is for no other reason than people are invested in CF. CF sucks. It is no more reliable than any other format, and arguably worse with the stupid pins.

4. 10FPS, this is great, but the 7D2 was there a long time before.

5. AF system -- well, while Nikon appears to mirror the AF system from flagship to little brother crops, it isn't quite so. Aside from that, there's a lot of points, but not all of them are selectable. So the only way the extra points helps is for whatever intelligent tracking technology they're using. Real world tests will reveal what is going on here.

6. 4K. This is big because 4K is some make or break feature according to all the fanatics on the web. Personally, I don't care. Nikon also implemented it in some bizarre, annoying fashion that makes several smaller files. Uggh. But at least it is there. That will make the nuts go wild on the web, and Nikon is big about spec-generated hype.

7. Tiling screen, with crippled touch. This is just ok.

8. Connectivity. If this works - this will be very useful for many different scenarios. Big win here.

9. Moving the ISO button to the right side of the camera. This is great. Nikon's ergos and layout sucks, and this is a move in the right direction, literally and figuratively.

10. AF adjustment - Canon has been there for a long, long time now. That's catchup. 

11. Higher resolution rear LCD - good. But if Nikon hasn't corrected the bad color on it, then it is still worthless. 




Conclusion and final thoughts,


Nikon's biggest obstacle for success on this camera, other than actually delivering on the hype of these specs, is to dodge recalls, bugs and other issues. Their last 2-3 bodies all had issues or recalls. Nikon quality control is questionable. 


This camera surprises me a lot. I was a firm believer that the flagship APS-C was dead. Especially since the 7D2, while still popular, isn't monumental as high end crop used to be. Particularly with full frame prices dropping and more lower end options there.

Which scenario is it? Is this simply a matter of Nikon finally giving in and satisfying their customer base who has been screaming for years to have a high-speed sports/wildlife crop like Canon? Or, is this a sign that the flagship crop concept is non dead, and is still viable?

If Nikon was looking to just satisfy their customers with a sports/wildlife crop - I don't think they would have specced it out to this extent. They would have only provided the high FPS and better AF points. No need for the other stuff. Think of a 10FPS, new AF D7200 with higher end body.


Notice how this is being treated differently on the web.....

When the 7D2 came out, what was the prevailing talk ???

_"This is only for sports and wildlife"

"This is too expensive for a crop in this day and age, clearly for those already invested in the Canon system"

"For Canon shooters only who want speed"
_
NONE of that so far for this camera.


That is likely due to the more successful marketing by Nikon, and the propaganda by all their loud-mouth followers on the web. The vloggers and bloggers aren't immediately marginalizing and compartmentalizing this camera as a specialists tool the way they did the 7D2. Nikon, by adding token 4K and a tilt screen - those two somewhat novelty features - allows this camera to shed free of any "special purpose" kind of identity, and be an all-around flagship crop king. Whereas, the 7D2 is "just for Canon shooters" and wildlife/sports only. I'll be surprised if in time they start labeling it a sports/wildlife camera only. The price is high like the 7D2 at release (actually higher). And when all the fanboy cheering is over, and it comes time to bust out $2,000 on a crop - more level headed attitudes may arise.


I suppose the flagship crop isn't dead, yet. Or, it might be a case of Nikon trying to stop a defectors to Canon who are budget sports shooters or wildlife. Maybe 7D2 is more successful than the web-world makes it out to be and Nikon wants in on it? Maybe it is more successful because it was the only show in town?


And finally, what becomes of the Nikon lineup? At about the same price is the fullframe D750. No 4K, and while it's very fast FPS, it's not 10fps speed demon. How about the D610. Not getting much press anymore. Still a decent fullframe with dual slots that a lot of budget minded pros find useful. Want the fullframe look? Don't need 10fps? The short of it is, there's a lot more overlap in the Nikon system. The choice isn't as clear between cameras. That is a good thing in a way - it means more than one camera can suit many needs. In the Canon world, there is serious intentional crippling of cameras to force up-selling to higher end bodies. 


One thing is for sure, this D500 has totally overshadowed their flagship D5. I think there's more to that than just the economics of more people being interested in an comfortable non-flagship body. This is without a doubt, spec-wise, the most bold release in a very, very long time. 


Let's see if it lives up to the specs and hype.


----------



## blb529 (Jan 8, 2016)

I shoot sports with a 7d and non-is 70-200 2.8. With the primary goal of getting better performance at high ISOs, I see 5 real options:

1) 7d mark ii - $1500 on Amazon. 
2) Nikon D750 - $1800 on Amazon. 
3) Nikon D500 - $2000.
4) Canon 6dii - ? wait and hope the new version is in line with the d750 which would make it viable for sports
5) Canon 5diii - currently, renovated bodies are $2000 on Canon's site with strong likelihood of falling a bit 
more as release of 5d4 seems imminent.
6) Spend time learning how to fix high ISO shots in lightroom.

As, from a financial perspective, #6 is currently the only real option - #6 it is. But, in 6-8 months time, what direction do you think you'd go?


----------



## geonix (Jan 8, 2016)

Don't beat me for saying this but a hype is also supported by creatig ever new threads in forums about that hype. Here at canonrumors there are already quite a few D500 themes where basically the same issues are discussed. 
I don't see any benfit of pondering about specs over and over again. 

The D500 is surely a great camera. My 7D II still makes great photos. New cameras with super specs come and then soon become cameras with less super specs.


----------



## K (Jan 10, 2016)

blb529 said:


> I shoot sports with a 7d and non-is 70-200 2.8. With the primary goal of getting better performance at high ISOs, I see 5 real options:
> 
> 1) 7d mark ii - $1500 on Amazon.
> 2) Nikon D750 - $1800 on Amazon.
> ...




Depends how high you want to go with ISO.

Noise-wise, Nikon's D750 is the best they have and the best in the list you gave above. 24mp gives you some cropping space for sports. It has 7fps which is very decent. The noise is low, clean images and high DR. It also has a fantastic AF system and 2 card slots.

For Canon, I'd skip the 5D3 - it still has great AF and IQ and it is a big leap over the 7D, but your money will be better spent in the next year if you hold out. 

The 6D has better ISO performance than the 5D3, but the FPS is awful and the AF is lacking so I'd skip that too. (I know you didn't consider it, but threw it in there) 

The 7D2 is a huge leap from the 7D you're currently using. Faster, better AF, and better image quality. Two card slots. Anti-Flicker if you're indoors for sporting event. The price has dropped that you can either just save the money over other cameras, or buy some glass.

The 6D2 is unlikely to have more than 6 FPS ...and in my view, 7 FPS is entry level for action. 8 and above preferred. 10-12 is king. It is also a huge mystery what AF it will have. If it gets the 5D3's...good. If not, then it is going to be weak. Image quality though will likely be superior to any of the choices above, including the D750. At best, it will be a reincarnation of the 5D3 with a superior sensor. But rumors say 1 card slot, so for me that's a no go. Also, it is unknown if it anti-flicker will be omitted from it. That to me is an awesome indoor sports feature. Who in this world enjoys shooting under those lights? Not me. Post-processing is a pain. That feature saves a lot of time and ups quality. Also, the 6D2 is probably 18 months out. Canon isn't announcing the 1DX for another month, and the 5D before summer. I can't imagine the 6D2 making it before the end of 2016. 80D could happen at the 2017 CES show. 


D500 ...that thing has the speed we know that. No more resolution than the 7D2. While it has a hyped-up AF, in practice probably no better than Canon's AF. But a huge upgrade from your 7D. Two cards is good. The big deal is the huge ISO claims...

I for one, do not believe that Nikon has made a 1 to 1.5 stop leap in ISO performance from their previous generation crop sensors (D7200). I was comparing images of the 6D a full frame vs the D7200 on noise alone. ISO 6400 images are about the equal of the D7200's ISO 2500-3000. More than a stop better, but not 2 stops cleaner. 

If Nikon's claims about the D500 are true, then the D500 will have EQUALED the high ISO noise performance of last generation's full frame cameras. 

Um....NO.

I haven't seen that happen before. 2 generations? Yes. A crop that is two full generations/product cycles newer than a FF has equaled in noise. Seen that. Of course, a FF will always have a different perspective, more depth of field and will resolve better. 

But hey, if it is true, then I'll get one when the price drops a little. Why wouldn't I want a high-speed crop with as good ISO as a 6D?

I'm not betting on that.

But to your question, I'd guess the Nikon will have better IQ at higher ISO than the 7D2 due to being newer sensor technology. At low ISO where there's little to no noise, they will be equal and the Canon has the edge since Canon has better glass. But that depends on what kind. Nikon's crop glass is good. Canon's advantage is the L glass.

I'd wait...


I'd wait to see if the D500 lives up to the hype. If it doesn't...

The 7D2 & D750 will only drop in price, and these are really capable cameras.


If you can live with losing 1fps and the loss of crop-zoom, the D750 is going to be a giant upgrade in terms of IQ over your 7D. If you want ultimate speed and crop factor, while still getting a big boost in IQ - the 7D2 is it. If having 10fps doesn't make or break your sports shooting, get the D750.


----------

