# A new camera not named the R1 is coming in the 2nd half of 2021 [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 15, 2021)

> We have been talking about an EOS R1 for quite some time now, and with Nikon formally announcing the development of the Z 9, that will put a bit of pressure on Canon to do the same.
> A source with a pretty decent track record has reached out and told me that an exciting new RF mount camera is coming early in the 2nd half of 2021, but it won’t be the R1. Canon doesn’t have a launch date yet as they continue to battle supply chain issues, but they want to get it out as soon as possible.
> Could this be the high-resolution version of the EOS R5, or something else?
> The R1 will likely get a development announcement, but won’t be available until the first half of 2022 at this point.
> More to come on this…



Continue reading...


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## amorse (Mar 15, 2021)

That's somewhat surprising - with all the glass coming, one would think the next body in the pipeline would be the flagship. I wonder if they just aren't calling it the R1 and the next camera is yet still a flagship?

With that said, I'm pretty keen on the high resolution body and wouldn't be upset if it was next.


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## slclick (Mar 15, 2021)

R7 crop 7D style would be exciting as well. Aren't the 1 &7 the two most clamored about bodies?


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## unfocused (Mar 15, 2021)

Unnamed "exciting" new camera. Release the unicorns!


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## DBounce (Mar 15, 2021)

Pity no R1 this year. I was really looking forward to it. Let’s hope the development announcement is soon and much more detailed than Nikon Z9 release.


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## kaihp (Mar 15, 2021)

Boo! No R1 Hiss!


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## Maps (Mar 15, 2021)

Think the writing was on the wall on this one.





__





What will Canon bring to the table with the EOS R1?


Yesterday Sony set the gear world ablaze with the Sony Alpha a1, their new flagship full-frame mirrorless camera. It boasts a ton of pretty great features that most of you already know about. In particular, I love the EVF on paper, the 1/400 flash sync and the autofocus looks tremendous. So what...




www.canonrumors.com





I would guess it's the R7 that's coming, but I wouldn't bet a dime on it, or frankly, anything right now.


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## Skyscraperfan (Mar 15, 2021)

Funny, because the largest downside of the R5 for me already is the high resolution. I hope we will soon the a heavy and large R1 with no more than 21 megapixels.


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## Fischer (Mar 15, 2021)

High MPIX R! High MPIX R! High MPIX R!    Would probably be happy using it 8-10 years.


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## john1970 (Mar 15, 2021)

Interesting development. I guess this makes some sense because typically Canon releases their 1-series bodies in Q1 of a given year. Historically, the 1Dx Mk3 was released in January 2020 and the 1Dx Mk2 was released in Feb 2016. Fingers are crossed for a Q1 2022 release and a Q4 2021 development announcement. I just hope that Canon coordinates the delivery of the 1-series mirrorless camera with the delivery of various super telephoto lenses. I am booking photography trips in Q3 2022 and hope that Canon has the R1 body and super telephoto lenses by then.


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## Alam (Mar 15, 2021)

Replacement of R7, please make it happen early so i can also get second hand or refurbished one earlier


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## Nigel95 (Mar 15, 2021)

R7 please been waiting for it for ages.


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## rom (Mar 15, 2021)

All I want for Christmas is... EOS R mark II


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## vladk (Mar 15, 2021)

Well, Canon delivered 1Dx III a year ago as usual, just before the expected Tokyo Olympics 2020, so now everything is possible. They do not have an urgency to bring R1 until Soccer World Cup 2022. So Spring-Summer 2022 look legitimate IMO. And considering that Canon still need to generate return on investment for 1Dx III they may postpone R1 even more.


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## landon (Mar 15, 2021)

Canon is not going to release anything until everyone has an R5/R6 first ;-) Likewise, sony is not releasing the a7iv until every fanboy has an s3.


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## Tom W (Mar 15, 2021)

There are a couple of things that could be going on here. First, this doesn't mean no R1 type body. Second, it could be the low-priced new R body that we've read rumors about in the past. Third, it could be the APS-C sports/action body that would presumably replace the 7D (R7?) for a lower-cost pixel-dense, high speed camera for us regular people. Or, it could be the high-megapixel body that would accompany the R5 (an R3, perhaps?). 

Hard to say which one(s) of these could be true, or if its something else.


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## ncvarsity3 (Mar 15, 2021)

Honestly, I imagine Canon isn't worried about releasing the R1, or whatever it'll be called, for the Olympics. The R5's closest competition is the Sony A1, not the other way around, and the 1DX mk III is still one of the best cameras ever created for sports and wildlife.


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## Swerky (Mar 15, 2021)

Exciting=expensive=pass.


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## John Wilde (Mar 15, 2021)

"Exciting" is another way of saying "expensive". I would rather see a new R that's boring but affordable.


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## Exploreshootshare (Mar 15, 2021)

rom said:


> All I want for Christmas is... EOS R mark II


Three years after its initial release, it would be great. 

Just take the EOS R and give it: 
- slight bump in MP, about 32-34 MP
- 10 FPS with full auto-focus
- maybe IBIS (depending on pricing)
- Joystick, no Touch Bar (although I like the Touch Bar...)
- one extra customizable Button (I'm always missing one ) 

And yes, I know there won't be an "EOS R Mark II", but I honestly believe that there will be a successor with a different naming scheme. RP and R don't fit in with R5/ R6 and the upcoming R1


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## Swerky (Mar 15, 2021)

Exploreshootshare said:


> Three years after its initial release, it would be great.
> 
> Just take the EOS R and give it:
> - slight bump in MP, about 32-34 MP
> ...


R7 would be fine. I'm ok with 30mpx. Would like to have ibis. Joystick instead of the Touch Bar. That's about it. I'm fine with the rest of the R as it is.


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## Traveler (Mar 15, 2021)

Canon should produce something like R2 – a flagship camera with the best specs with almost no compromise, relatively compact in size (R5 size), money is no object. Just for marketing purposes. Give it to those youtubers for free. And it would bring a lot of people to Canon.
I can see a lot of people buying Sony cameras (mostly A7iii) just because their favorite youtuber uses 7Siii or A1


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## Traveler (Mar 15, 2021)

For me, I wish for eos R Mark II. Faster AF, IBIS, faster WiFi. 8-10 fps is fine. 24-30 Mpix. 
I’m also happy for the touchbar or any new feature like that.


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## Wiki Tango (Mar 15, 2021)

I still believe that the trademark for THE professional Canon camera is still

EOS-1

so wouldn't it be good tradition for Canon to name tha flagship

EOS-1 R
?
There is a verly long ancestry of EOS-1 cameras since 1989...


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## jam05 (Mar 15, 2021)

You can expect the R1 released prior to the Summer Oltmpics opening ceremony July 23rd. Admin originally missed the R5 by a year also. Canan has always released its 1Dx prior to the summer Olympics. You can expect the same. Likely will be deluvered to the Olympic venues first, just as they did in Rio, except no need for shipping.


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## jam05 (Mar 15, 2021)

DBounce said:


> Pity no R1 this year. I was ready looking forward to it. Let’s hope the development announcement is soon and much more detailed than Nikon Z9 release.


Don't believe it. Admin was wrong about the R5 and a year off with it.


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## jam05 (Mar 15, 2021)

ncvarsity3 said:


> Honestly, I imagine Canon isn't worried about releasing the R1, or whatever it'll be called, for the Olympics. The R5's closest competition is the Sony A1, not the other way around, and the 1DX mk III is still one of the best cameras ever created for sports and wildlife.


The R5 is the 5D replacement. The R1 the 1Dx replacement will be deluvered to the Olympic venues as always. The ultimate showcase for any high performance sports camers camera is the summer Olympics. The Canon flagship will be there. And it won't be then 1DX2


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## st jack photography (Mar 15, 2021)

Considering it is long overdue, I would expect this to be the high-mp body, the successor to the 5dsr, not because of demand, but because it is overdue. Also a high megapixel count REALLY turns heads in this market (when admittedly there is a lot more at play than high MP, including ISO quality, buffer speed, pixel density issues, overheating, and burst speeds.) After owning a 5DSR, and dealing with its cons as a commercial shooter, I will pass on a high-mp body. BUT: I would love to see any Canon body with a BSI sensor or a variable low-pass filter. The Sony RX1Rm2 almost won me over to them, except that the RX1 camera is a sealed compact that isn't weather-sealed. Also, Sony is not a camera company, they are a consumer product company, and maybe worst of all, their interchangeable lens full frame mount is too tiny, built for a DSLR APS-C, not specifically a back-focused mirrorless full frame. (It would be like if Canon had designed the RF full frame mount around M or EFS lenses. Because of the massive RF mount size, Canon will always rule the day with glass when compared to the dinky E-mount.)
Besides a 5DSr equivalent (R5SR?), it could also be an aps-c RF body in line with a 7d. I have no clue why people want a prosumer aps-C that is the same body size as a r5, it makes no sense to me, but people sure seem to want that big body with the tiny sensor. That can't be about price any longer since the wonderful RP is only a grand.
I am excited about the photo future. Sony is making great innovations, and Canon needs that to stay up-to-date, since all Nikon has done since 1987 is play catch-up with the hallowed EOS lens system. Canon should be worried still about Sony, yep, but they should also just ignore clueless Nikon, who have moved their manufacturing to cheapo land as they begin what I think is a death spiral of irrelevance. In my worthless opinion, the entire market depends on glass and the mount size, followed by bodies and features and lastly, sensors.
Hope this isn't too troll-ish.


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## jam05 (Mar 15, 2021)

These rumor sites are getting a lot of thing wrong lately, up until the very last month. Opening ceremonies isnt until July 23rd.


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## jam05 (Mar 15, 2021)

landon said:


> Canon is not going to release anything until everyone has an R5/R6 first ;-) Likewise, sony is not releasing the a7iv until every fanboy has an s3.


"Everyone"? The R5 user base and the other two high end cameras are different user bases. The R5 is the 5D replacement. Those that shoot with the 1dx2 or 5D + 1dx2 arent the same as those that shoot with 5D only. Canon doesnt depend on fanboys. A high megapixel one and its sports camera that are most always released during Olympic years. The showcase of the sports camera. No other event is comparable.


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## gavinz (Mar 15, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


I guess Canon is betting on Olympics not happening? ;-) May be Sony really surprised them with their new flag ship. I hope Canon can catch up with their sensor technology.


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## unfocused (Mar 15, 2021)

jam05 said:


> ...Canon doesnt depend on fanboys...


Actually, they do. Canon (and all the other camera manufacturers) are increasingly dependent on enthusiasts with disposable income to sustain their business. The old user base of professionals is shrinking and is now too small to sustain a market for 1 series bodies.


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## Maps (Mar 15, 2021)

jam05 said:


> You can expect the R1 released prior to the Summer Oltmpics opening ceremony July 23rd. Admin originally missed the R5 by a year also. Canan has always released its 1Dx prior to the summer Olympics. You can expect the same. Likely will be deluvered to the Olympic venues first, just as they did in Rio, except no need for shipping.


You’re definitely using good, solid logic from the past, and you absolutely could be right (I wouldn’t bet against it); but… with this and almost every piece of news/speculation coming out of the imaging world lately, I really question whether any of that precedent matters any more. Even before Covid, the market was in the midst of some tremendous upheaval. I’d be careful about assuming that something that was true 5 years ago means anything today.


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## Fischer (Mar 15, 2021)

jam05 said:


> "Everyone"? The R5 user base and the other two high end cameras are different user bases. The R5 is the 5D replacement. Those that shoot with the 1dx2 or 5D + 1dx2 arent the same as those that shoot with 5D only. Canon doesnt depend on fanboys. A high megapixel one and its sports camera that are most always released during Olympic years. The showcase of the sports camera. No other event is comparable.


Olympics is last year's news already. Corona saw to that. Lots of events will be marred by only the second best being there. No need to rush anything. Existing super telelenses will do the job with the R5 and updated DX leading the way.


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## Fischer (Mar 15, 2021)

unfocused said:


> Actually, they do. Canon (and all the other camera manufacturers) are increasingly dependent on enthusiasts with disposable income to sustain their business. The old user base of professionals is shrinking and is now too small to sustain a market for 1 series bodies.


Exactly. And Canon has said so themselves.


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## slclick (Mar 15, 2021)

Alam said:


> Replacement of R7, please make it happen early so i can also get second hand or refurbished one earlier


Wow, that sure is a short product cycle


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## John Wilde (Mar 15, 2021)

jam05 said:


> You can expect the R1 released prior to the Summer Oltmpics opening ceremony July 23rd. Admin originally missed the R5 by a year also. Canan has always released its 1Dx prior to the summer Olympics. You can expect the same. Likely will be deluvered to the Olympic venues first, just as they did in Rio, except no need for shipping.


Due to COVID-19 related parts supply issues, release dates are unpredictable. The auto industry is reportedly being hit by a worldwide semiconductor shortage. I don't know what other industries are impacted by that.


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## slclick (Mar 15, 2021)

Exploreshootshare said:


> Three years after its initial release, it would be great.
> 
> Just take the EOS R and give it:
> - slight bump in MP, about 32-34 MP
> ...


R3 akin to EOS 3 which was a badass film boody


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## JohnC (Mar 15, 2021)

It's almost guaranteed to be the high megapixel R5 type body. I say that because I gave in and purchased the R5 (which I love), but that would make the timing coincide with my luck!


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## ctk (Mar 15, 2021)

rom said:


> All I want for Christmas is... EOS R mark II


Yep. No plans to purchase anything more expensive than that so I couldn't care less. Will happily replace my current R with one even if the R loses a ton of value as a result. I just want my R with IBIS and a useful control to replace the touch bar. They can even ditch the top LCD and magnesium body for all I care.


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## ctk (Mar 15, 2021)

Exploreshootshare said:


> Three years after its initial release, it would be great.
> 
> Just take the EOS R and give it:
> - slight bump in MP, about 32-34 MP
> ...


I think the sensor will have to stay the same to save costs. I'm fine with that... 34MP is only a 6% bump in linear resolution; nobody will be able to see that. For me the only real must haves are the current IQ + MPs, the same body size/grip/EVF and IBIS.


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## unfocused (Mar 15, 2021)

rom said:


> All I want for Christmas is... EOS R mark II


While I love the R and think it is an incredible value, I doubt if Canon will update it. I'd still take the R over the R6 any day.


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## EOS 4 Life (Mar 15, 2021)

unfocused said:


> While I love the R and think it is an incredible value, I doubt if Canon will update it. I'd still take the R over the R6 any day.


Canon kind of complicated the situation with their nomenclature.
There will not be an R Mark II but there is too big of a gap between R6 and R5.
Maybe call it R6S which would be an R6 with 30 MP.
It would cost more than the R and R6.


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## Exploreshootshare (Mar 15, 2021)

ctk said:


> I'm fine with that... 34MP is only a 6% bump in linear resolution; nobody will be able to see that.


Yes, you're right about saving costs.
I also agree on no noticeable difference between 30 and 34 MP. But 34 MP would mean there would be 13,2 MP in crop mode instead of the current 11,7 MP which is an increase of nearly 10%. With low MP numbers I think the increase is noticeable. That's why I actually wished for the slight bump



> EOS 4 life said:
> There will not be an R Mark II but there is too big of a gap between R6 and R5


With no EOS R Mark II (or different named successor) there is an even bigger gap between the RP (or successor) and the R6. Since an below 1.000 $ entry level body is absolutely needed, there is a huge need for an EOS R Mark II. The naming will change though.


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## AJ (Mar 15, 2021)

I'm thinking it'll be a R5s.
I'm hoping for R7.


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## davidcl0nel (Mar 15, 2021)

There will be someday a R6 Mark II with 28MP and a R5 Mark II with 60MP and so on, I don't think they continue again the R or RP. Why "support" both names? Then they easily name the R5 also a Rs for higher Megapixel. No, they decide to go back to a number...
So R7, R1, R5s, R5a or maybe a R9 will come...


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## londonxt (Mar 15, 2021)

An R5 with disabled video function would be exciting for me (although given up on ever seeing eye-controlled focus making a comeback!)..

...the *R3*?


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## EOS 4 Life (Mar 15, 2021)

Exploreshootshare said:


> With no EOS R Mark II (or different named successor) there is an even bigger gap between the RP (or successor) and the R6. Since an below 1.000 $ entry level body is absolutely needed, there is a huge need for an EOS R Mark II. The naming will change though.


The RP does leave Canon with a lot of available names.
There could be an RP5, RP6, RP10, RP100, etc.
The R7 is supposed to be APS-C.
If Canon does that then it does not leave them a lot of room for full-frame mirrorless models starting with only the letter R followed by a number.


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## unfocused (Mar 15, 2021)

Exploreshootshare said:


> With no EOS R Mark II (or different named successor) there is an even bigger gap between the RP (or successor) and the R6. Since an below 1.000 $ entry level body is absolutely needed, there is a huge need for an EOS R Mark II. The naming will change though.


While I agree with the need for something that fits a price point between the RP and the R6, I'm not sure how Canon fills that gap. In my dream world, they would build on the R, keeping it at a single SD slot with no IBIS, and essentially keep the same ergonomics, but without the bar thingy, which would allow for better button placement. Improve things like autofocus, viewfinder lag and overall viewfinder experience. Perhaps by keeping it a single slot with no IBIS, they would feel there is enough differentiation between the R6 and the R.


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## EOS 4 Life (Mar 15, 2021)

unfocused said:


> While I agree with the need for something that fits a price point between the RP and the R6, I'm not sure how Canon fills that gap. In my dream world, they would build on the R, keeping it at a single SD slot with no IBIS, and essentially keep the same ergonomics, but without the bar thingy, which would allow for better button placement. Improve things like autofocus, viewfinder lag and overall viewfinder experience. Perhaps by keeping it a single slot with no IBIS, they would feel there is enough differentiation between the R6 and the R.


I envision an R line with IBIS and an RP line without IBIS but Canon understandable does not care what I envision.


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## neurorx (Mar 15, 2021)

I keep wondering, if it were an R7, what would it have that would be a big step up from an R5? More fps isn't a big great ask (do we need more than is in the R5 or R6? Lower MP? Not sure how much that really matters (20 vs 45, as 30...does that really give us anything?) Any ideas on what an R7 might bring besides a crop sensor? 

I would think the high resolution R would be most likely. Bummed about no R1, but it gives me more time to save.


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## Del Paso (Mar 15, 2021)

londonxt said:


> An R5 with disabled video function would be exciting for me (although given up on ever seeing eye-controlled focus making a comeback!)..
> 
> ...the *R3*?


Agree!
I'm still looking for an improbable way to disable the video function on my EOS R. Help would be greatly appreciated.
(Sometimes, I switch it on by inadvertence).


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## landscaper (Mar 15, 2021)

High Resolution Camera Body

100 Megapixels or Close 

We haven't had an Upgrade for 
Six Long Years !!

If NO Canon 5Ds or RS by 
Mid July 2021

I will give ALL my Money to 
Fuji GFX 100s System 

I Promise


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## David - Sydney (Mar 15, 2021)

John Wilde said:


> Due to COVID-19 related parts supply issues, release dates are unpredictable. The auto industry is reportedly being hit by a worldwide semiconductor shortage. I don't know what other industries are impacted by that.


Shortages are also impacting network equipment deliveries


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## slclick (Mar 15, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> Canon kind of complicated the situation with their nomenclature.
> There will not be an R Mark II but there is too big of a gap between R6 and R5.
> Maybe call it R6S which would be an R6 with 30 MP.
> It would cost more than the R and R6.





landscaper said:


> High Resolution Camera Body
> 
> 100 Megapixels or Close
> 
> ...


Buh-bye


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## Exploreshootshare (Mar 15, 2021)

unfocused said:


> While I agree with the need for something that fits a price point between the RP and the R6, I'm not sure how Canon fills that gap. In my dream world, they would build on the R, keeping it at a single SD slot with no IBIS, and essentially keep the same ergonomics, but without the bar thingy, which would allow for better button placement. Improve things like autofocus, viewfinder lag and overall viewfinder experience. Perhaps by keeping it a single slot with no IBIS, they would feel there is enough differentiation between the R6 and the R.


Sounds realistic, although a few improvements as a selling such as higher FPS. Without IBIS and Dual Slot they should be able to price it at around 1.800-1.900 $ with a slight drop in the future.


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## RobbieHat (Mar 15, 2021)

If it is the High Resolution R then please let it have no AA filter and not a cancelling filter. I am hoping it is the R5s (or whatever it will be named) and be at least 85 MP! 

Bob


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## Mr Majestyk (Mar 16, 2021)

Alam said:


> Replacement of R7, please make it happen early so i can also get second hand or refurbished one earlier


Replacement of a non-existent camera is unlikely


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## fox40phil (Mar 16, 2021)

IDK why Canon is waiting so long to complete the RF system.... I can't understand it! 
This drip feeding politics sucks! 

They could easily go into a R7 near by the R6 & R5! Also a RII with Ibis and still 30MP and a bumb in fps! -> then there is still a 1DXIII like R6 with 20MP and a HighMP R5!!! Workhorses who needs it.


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## usern4cr (Mar 16, 2021)

What really excites me is the talk of a R body with Quad Pixel AF so that horizontal lines can be instantly AF'd just as well as vertical lines - It will make AF much better than the already great (but not perfect) AF system in the R5. And an EVF with a bigger apparent view (higher magnification) and more pixels and higher frame rate as well as a bigger and higher resolution back LCD and a more thoughtfully organized menu system (listening to user input) would be major improvements. A global shutter with wide range of user specified FPS rates would be a very major improvement, as would an integrated ND filter and GPS tagging. There's so many things here that can be improved that I hope they come out with a camera doing that (or some of that). If they only just double the MP count up to 80-90MP then I wouldn't be all that excited unless they also add some of the other improvements mentioned here.


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## vladk (Mar 16, 2021)

Folks, don't forget how successful financially the Rebel line and EOS M are. Much bigger sales than 7D would ever hoped for. If Canon does not decide to cover APS-C with EOS M only, we may see R3xx and/or R7 someday. But I bet that in a foreseeable future Canon will concentrate on high end and enthusiast RF segments, leaving APS-C to M. IMHO, all they need is one relatively advanced M3 body to fill the gap, if they are not afraid that such body will hurt sales of low end R bodies.


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## vladk (Mar 16, 2021)

I am afraid that quad pixel AF will be based on quad Bayer sensor design. I surely hope the leaked R1 specs do not mean the quad Bayer sensor.


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## GoldWing (Mar 16, 2021)

Same old bait and switch. Well NONE of us are biting. After the 1DXMKIII "nothing buger" then the R5 release, even armature photogs are hip to the tricks. In my opinion Canon is in trouble. SONY, fuji, Nikon, Hasselblad all innovating.

So we sit and wait for another 20MP flagship from Canon ROFL


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## GoldWing (Mar 16, 2021)

jam05 said:


> The R5 is the 5D replacement. The R1 the 1Dx replacement will be deluvered to the Olympic venues as always. The ultimate showcase for any high performance sports camers camera is the summer Olympics. The Canon flagship will be there. And it won't be then 1DX2


You're going to see more people shooting with non Canon cameras than ever before. They have MORE glass latitude and can crop. Where we sit with a 800mm or 600 they sit with a 400 and move without the gimbal or monopod. They are shooting at 50MP and our IDX's are at 20. If the R1 is not superior to the A1 in resolution..... Canon will have lost an even greater chunk of business that will also cut into broadcast. Take that to the bank!!!


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## SteveC (Mar 16, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> even armature photogs are hip to the tricks.



Just because someone takes pictures of these:



https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/5d/Dc_armature.jpg



doesn't mean he's naive enough to get the "even armature phtogs" treatment.


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## justaCanonuser (Mar 16, 2021)

Maps said:


> I would guess it's the R7 that's coming, but I wouldn't bet a dime on it, or frankly, anything right now.


I just checked my local dealer's online shop (Frankfurt, Germany): the 7DII isn't offered anymore. On Amazon still are several offerings, but this could be just some stocks. Looks a bit like Canon really phased out the production of the 7DII, despite saying that officially. I do hope for an R7, for birding...


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## justaCanonuser (Mar 16, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> Canon will have lost an even greater chunk of business that will also cut into broadcast. Take that to the bank!!!


Yepp, Canon is finished since more then 10 years... we just are looking at its mortal remains.


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## Traveler (Mar 16, 2021)

Nigel95 said:


> R7 please been waiting for it for ages.


why not full frame?


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## sanj (Mar 16, 2021)

I am in the minority it seems. R5 fulfils all my needs as of today.


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## Nigel95 (Mar 16, 2021)

Traveler said:


> why not full frame?


Expensive for a serious hobbyist. My current Sigma 18-35, Canon 60 and Canon 10-18 still perform good enough for my needs. Bodies like R and RP don't cover my needs for some specs I want (C log, IBIS, 10bit 4k 60, 1080 120.) The R6 is nice and still affordable for me but the transition of replacing it with 3 equivalent FF lenses is out of my league.


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## chasingrealness (Mar 16, 2021)

amorse said:


> That's somewhat surprising - with all the glass coming, one would think the next body in the pipeline would be the flagship. I wonder if they just aren't calling it the R1 and the next camera is yet still a flagship?
> 
> With that said, I'm pretty keen on the high resolution body and wouldn't be upset if it was next.


As a fellow RP shooter, I’m with you. I was a hair’s breadth away from buying the R5 yesterday, but I want to wait and see what is next before I commit to that as my full time body for the foreseeable future.


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## Fischer (Mar 16, 2021)

usern4cr said:


> What really excites me is the talk of a R body with Quad Pixel AF so that horizontal lines can be instantly AF'd just as well as vertical lines - It will make AF much better than the already great (but not perfect) AF system in the R5. And an EVF with a bigger apparent view (higher magnification) and more pixels and higher frame rate as well as a bigger and higher resolution back LCD and a more thoughtfully organized menu system (listening to user input) would be major improvements. A global shutter with wide range of user specified FPS rates would be a very major improvement, as would an integrated ND filter and GPS tagging. There's so many things here that can be improved that I hope they come out with a camera doing that (or some of that). If they only just double the MP count up to 80-90MP then I wouldn't be all that excited unless they also add some of the other improvements mentioned here.


5DS/R came with several important upgrades over the 5DIII (anti flickr, bettter low-light AF, less noise, more DR, better shutter etc. etc) - so there's a good chance we will see some improvements over the 5R.


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## Aregal (Mar 16, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


"2nd Half" or "2nd Quarter"? It would seem odd that Canon would announce a flagship potentially at the doorstep of the Olympics. I say this because I imagine the Olympics is a great testbed for flagships but photographers would also like to plan their kits (with Canon if possible). That being said, I'm more than confident a 1Dxiii and 1Dxii would provide great coverage in 2021.


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## JohnC (Mar 16, 2021)

Fischer said:


> 5DS/R came with several important upgrades over the 5DIII (anti flickr, bettter low-light AF, less noise, more DR, better shutter etc. etc) - so there's a good chance we will see some improvements over the 5R.


All of that is true of course, but in my opinion the world was a little different then. If the resolution is close to what is rumored 85-90MP, then I would be extremely happy with just a resolution bump over the R5 in regards to technical specs. The AF system, DR, etc. of the R5 is in another world in comparison to the 5DIII. In fact it is on another level from the 5D4 as well. I'm just not sure how much better it could actually be in practical terms. Small improvements perhaps but not earth shattering, especially when you consider the resolution increase. If it would have a crop shooting mode at 12FPS (like the R5 does at full res) I would be pretty impressed.


----------



## Bert63 (Mar 16, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> In my opinion Canon is in trouble.




Thankfully the majority of the rest of the world doesn't agree with you. When the Sony "Flagship" is being endlessly compared to Canon's enthusiast FF (R5) and losing in many critical areas while costing almost double (when you include the grip that should already be there and an extra battery) I think Canon is doing most things right.

I won't mention the R6 which folks appear to be loving at a measly 20MP...

I also won't mention that the competitors are all mirrorless or going mirrorless - you already stated that pro sports guys can't do mirrorless because EVF...



Those other brands await - have at it.


----------



## Bert63 (Mar 16, 2021)

sanj said:


> I am in the minority it seems. R5 fulfils all my needs as of today.




Dumb old me is right there with you. I'm not smart enough to know any better apparently..


----------



## unfocused (Mar 16, 2021)

Aregal said:


> "2nd Half" or "2nd Quarter"? It would seem odd that Canon would announce a flagship potentially at the doorstep of the Olympics. I say this because I imagine the Olympics is a great testbed for flagships but photographers would also like to plan their kits (with Canon if possible). That being said, I'm more than confident a 1Dxiii and 1Dxii would provide great coverage in 2021.


According to Nikon Rumors, the recently announced Nikon flagship will be released in the fall of 2021. Nikon and Canon usually release products in tandem, so a fall announcement or release for the R1 makes sense. The Olympics, especially this year, is really irrelevant to these announcements, regardless of what forum experts think. It's way too late to announce a camera that will actually be used at the Olympics and you are correct in that most photographers who are actually covering the Olympics will be sticking with DSLRs because that's what they know and trust and it's too important of an event to risk using it as a test bed for a completely new body style. That's not to say that Canon might not hand out a bunch of pre-production models to photographers to play with during the Olympics, but for actual shooting of events that matter, photographers will be sticking with the 1DxIII.


----------



## unfocused (Mar 16, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> ...After the 1DXMKIII "nothing buger" then the R5 release, even armature photogs are hip to the tricks...


As I recall, you tested the 1DxIII for what, a few days? As someone who actually bought and uses the 1DxIII I strongly disagree that it is a "nothing buger." Or should that be a "nothing burger" or maybe a "nothing bugger?" Having used the 1DxIII through the winter sports season and now going into a spring season I have found it to be a significant improvement over the 1Dx II. Autofocus accuracy is much improved although it does take a learning curve to get the most out of the new autofocus system. The 1Dx II was pretty much limited to the center autofocus point or expanded point for sports shooting, but I've found that the 1DxIII often performs better in the larger or even full zones -- something that Peter Read Miller also commented on. In many cases, I'm getting more keepers than I know what to do with.


----------



## Bert63 (Mar 16, 2021)

unfocused said:


> As I recall, you tested the 1DxIII for what, a few days? As someone who actually bought and uses the 1DxIII I strongly disagree that it is a "nothing buger." Or should that be a "nothing burger" or maybe a "nothing bugger?" Having used the 1DxIII through the winter sports season and now going into a spring season I have found it to be a significant improvement over the 1Dx II. Autofocus accuracy is much improved although it does take a learning curve to get the most out of the new autofocus system. The 1Dx II was pretty much limited to the center autofocus point or expanded point for sports shooting, but I've found that the 1DxIII often performs better in the larger or even full zones -- something that Peter Read Miller also commented on. In many cases, I'm getting more keepers than I know what to do with.




I agree here. I honestly think Goldwing is a bit confused about what he's talking about.

The other day he was blasting me about using an EVF for sports (it can't be done apparently) and now he's threatening to leave Canon and go to one of their rivals that pretty much have nothing but EVFs to offer.

Go figure.

Imagine the R1 with edge-to-edge auto-focus QPAF and 40FPS in 20MP mode and a high res mode there if you want it.


----------



## kaihp (Mar 16, 2021)

John Wilde said:


> Due to COVID-19 related parts supply issues, release dates are unpredictable. The auto industry is reportedly being hit by a worldwide semiconductor shortage. I don't know what other industries are impacted by that.





David - Sydney said:


> Shortages are also impacting network equipment deliveries


Yup. The semiconductor industry has well-known cycles of general shortages and over-production. When the industry gets into shortages, "allocation" etc, _everybody_ who buys commercial silicon* gets hit. We were close or got into it in 2016-17 as well.

*) very very very few companies make 100% their own silicon at gets it fabbed at TSMC, UMC or GF, as standalone memory chips are are commercial. Even there they can get into allocation for fab slots.


----------



## David - Sydney (Mar 16, 2021)

Bert63 said:


> Dumb old me is right there with you. I'm not smart enough to know any better apparently..


It will be a long time before I really hit the limits of what my R5 can do... which is a good thing!
Love playing with 4k120 as a previous stills-only shooter - even with only a 128GB CFe card. Was shooting hot air balloons inflating last weekend and got some nice stills and footage (is that still a term??) of the burns


----------



## Hector1970 (Mar 16, 2021)

Nooooooooo!
I was hoping in 2021 I wouldn't part with any money to Canon and now they are threatening to bring me what I want - a high MP R5.
I'm very disappointed.


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## SteveC (Mar 16, 2021)

Hector1970 said:


> Nooooooooo!
> I was hoping in 2021 I wouldn't part with any money to Canon and now they are threatening to bring me what I want - a high MP R5.
> I'm very disappointed.



What do you and your relatives need *two* kidneys for, anyway?


----------



## JordanCS13 (Mar 17, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> Funny, because the largest downside of the R5 for me already is the high resolution. I hope we will soon the a heavy and large R1 with no more than 21 megapixels.


I mean, if you want a lower resolution R5, that's exactly what the R6 is.


----------



## -pekr- (Mar 17, 2021)

I really don't undestand all those requests for the R II. Guys, R5 is your R II, right? R and RP were nothing more, than a test bed for Canon in a mirrrorless world. R used a 5D IV sensor, RP the one from 6D II, well, kind of.

The reason why ppl feel there is a gap between the R5 and R6, is the 20mpx of R6. That's mostly psychological, but it really does not work for those coming nor from the 5DIV, but also from the 6DII. Imo R6 should not exist and Canon would make it better with the following segmentation:

- R5 - replacement for the 5DIV. 
- R5s - high megapixel camera
- R6 - lower than 20mpx. Recently, R6 is no real advantage to R5 in high ISO scenarios. R6 should have been a competition to Sony A7SIII, a bit more video oriented
- R7 - APS-C camera
- R1 - a flagship camera


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## -pekr- (Mar 17, 2021)

vladk said:


> Folks, don't forget how successful financially the Rebel line and EOS M are. Much bigger sales than 7D would ever hoped for. If Canon does not decide to cover APS-C with EOS M only, we may see R3xx and/or R7 someday. But I bet that in a foreseeable future Canon will concentrate on high end and enthusiast RF segments, leaving APS-C to M. IMHO, all they need is one relatively advanced M3 body to fill the gap, if they are not afraid that such body will hurt sales of low end R bodies.



This scenario is an absolute no go, as far as there is a situation, where you can't use RF lens on the M mount. Whatever Canon brings to the M line, is not going to be your 7D II replacement. The camera would have to have a decent ergonomics, which contradicts the M line's main purpose - the small size. Forget it.


----------



## koenkooi (Mar 17, 2021)

-pekr- said:


> I really don't undestand all those requests for the R II. Guys, R5 is your R II, right? R and RP were nothing more, than a test bed for Canon in a mirrrorless world. R used a 5D IV sensor, RP the one from 6D II, well, kind of.
> 
> The reason why ppl feel there is a gap between the R5 and R6, is the 20mpx of R6. That's mostly psychological, but it really does not work for those coming nor from the 5DIV, but also from the 6DII. Imo R6 should not exist and Canon would make it better with the following segmentation:
> 
> ...


I feel there's a size gap between the RP and the R/R5/R6. I'd love to have an RP sized body (with better-than-RP AF) to stick the RF50STM on and bring it when taking the kids for a walk.


----------



## mdcmdcmdc (Mar 17, 2021)

Traveler said:


> why not full frame?


Too many compromises.


----------



## Hector1970 (Mar 17, 2021)

SteveC said:


> What do you and your relatives need *two* kidneys for, anyway?


You've got a point there


----------



## mpphoto (Mar 17, 2021)

-pekr- said:


> The reason why ppl feel there is a gap between the R5 and R6, is the 20mpx of R6. That's mostly psychological, but it really does not work for those coming nor from the 5DIV, but also from the 6DII. Imo R6 should not exist and Canon would make it better with the following segmentation:
> 
> - R5 - replacement for the 5DIV.
> - R5s - high megapixel camera
> ...


The 5D4 was my primary SLR. Since I got my RP and then the R, I have rarely used my 5D4, 7D2, or 80D. I plan on getting the R6 once it becomes available refurbished. The R5 is overkill for me. It has video capabilities beyond what I need, 45MP is more resolution than I need, and despite cheap storage, the files are bigger than I want to deal with. Plus the R5 costs more. Why pay more for specs and functions I won't take advantage of? Do I wish the R6 had 30MP instead of 20? Yes, but otherwise it offers all the performance I need. By offering the R6, Canon will be getting some of my cash. If only the R5 was available, I wouldn't be updating anytime soon. If the R6 had lower resolution but better low-light performance as you proposed, I wouldn't consider it. Resolution below 20MP is too much of a sacrifice for high ISO performance for me.

My only issues with the R are its relatively slow burst speed and the lack of IBIS. The R6 fixes those things without giving me huge resolution and pro video features I don't need, and it saves me money compared to the R5. There is definitely a place for the R6 in the market.


----------



## SteveC (Mar 17, 2021)

mpphoto said:


> The 5D4 was my primary SLR. Since I got my RP and then the R, I have rarely used my 5D4, 7D2, or 80D. I plan on getting the R6 once it becomes available refurbished. The R5 is overkill for me. It has video capabilities beyond what I need, 45MP is more resolution than I need, and despite cheap storage, the files are bigger than I want to deal with. Plus the R5 costs more. Why pay more for specs and functions I won't take advantage of? Do I wish the R6 had 30MP instead of 20? Yes, but otherwise it offers all the performance I need. By offering the R6, Canon will be getting some of my cash. If only the R5 was available, I wouldn't be updating anytime soon. If the R6 had lower resolution but better low-light performance as you proposed, I wouldn't consider it. Resolution below 20MP is too much of a sacrifice for high ISO performance for me.
> 
> My only issues with the R are its relatively slow burst speed and the lack of IBIS. The R6 fixes those things without giving me huge resolution and pro video features I don't need, and it saves me money compared to the R5. There is definitely a place for the R6 in the market.



In a way your attitude is the mirror image of mine. I didn't want to go *below* 30 MP so I ended up with an R5 that's a bit overkill for me in other regards (including the video modes). I now have a second card slot I'm unlikely ever to use too, because they made it CFE for those video modes I don't actually care about. Had the R6 been 30MP or more, that's what I'd have today.


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## Fischer (Mar 17, 2021)

JohnC said:


> All of that is true of course, but in my opinion the world was a little different then. If the resolution is close to what is rumored 85-90MP, then I would be extremely happy with just a resolution bump over the R5 in regards to technical specs. The AF system, DR, etc. of the R5 is in another world in comparison to the 5DIII. In fact it is on another level from the 5D4 as well. I'm just not sure how much better it could actually be in practical terms. Small improvements perhaps but not earth shattering, especially when you consider the resolution increase. If it would have a crop shooting mode at 12FPS (like the R5 does at full res) I would be pretty impressed.


We will see... just guessing like everyone else, but there are several possible improvements.


----------



## vladk (Mar 17, 2021)

-pekr- said:


> This scenario is an absolute no go, as far as there is a situation, where you can't use RF lens on the M mount. Whatever Canon brings to the M line, is not going to be your 7D II replacement. The camera would have to have a decent ergonomics, which contradicts the M line's main purpose - the small size. Forget it.


What I said is Canon does not need the 7D replacement in foreseeable future.
They see good sales of M line, they may want to provide more advanced M body feature wise, not a bigger, better built one.
RF will be FF only until they see the market saturation, and only then they may consider APS-C RF. The same approach they did with EF/EF-S (no pro grade APS-C body until late phase).

Add to this that there are no leaks about APS-C RF lenses. APS-C body without APS-C lenses makes no sense IMO.


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## Jasonmc89 (Mar 17, 2021)

Why do people think there will be an eos R mkii..? The R was an intro. That’s it.


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## slclick (Mar 17, 2021)

Jasonmc89 said:


> Why do people think there will be an eos R mkii..? The R was an intro. That’s it.


Exactly, even a Canon Exec said so in an interview.


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## slclick (Mar 17, 2021)

vladk said:


> What I said is Canon does not need the 7D replacement in foreseeable future.
> They see good sales of M line, they may want to provide more advanced M body feature wise, not a bigger, better built one.
> RF will be FF only until they see the market saturation, and only then they may consider APS-C RF. The same approach they did with EF/EF-S (no pro grade APS-C body until late phase).
> 
> Add to this that there are no leaks about APS-C RF lenses. APS-C body without APS-C lenses makes no sense IMO.


YMMV. Let's take the 7D, many if not most shooters used L glass. Sot there's that


----------



## GoldWing (Mar 18, 2021)

unfocused said:


> As I recall, you tested the 1DxIII for what, a few days? As someone who actually bought and uses the 1DxIII I strongly disagree that it is a "nothing buger." Or should that be a "nothing burger" or maybe a "nothing bugger?" Having used the 1DxIII through the winter sports season and now going into a spring season I have found it to be a significant improvement over the 1Dx II. Autofocus accuracy is much improved although it does take a learning curve to get the most out of the new autofocus system. The 1Dx II was pretty much limited to the center autofocus point or expanded point for sports shooting, but I've found that the 1DxIII often performs better in the larger or even full zones -- something that Peter Read Miller also commented on. In many cases, I'm getting more keepers than I know what to do with.


We shoot with center point our avg years is 20 and we don't need the handicap of focusing across. However we can see how most need the EVF or with the the 1DX 1 2 or 3 letting the camera to take over. We tell our cameras what to do, shoot in manual and use single point with about 100% keepers. The OVF is still the best with a trained professional.


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## Jonathan Thill (Mar 18, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> We shoot with center point our avg years is 20 and we don't need the handicap of focusing across. However we can see how most need the EVF or with the the 1DX 1 2 or 3 letting the camera to take over. We tell our cameras what to do, shoot in manual and use single point with about 100% keepers. The OVF is still the best with a trained professional.


Sounds like you need a Snickers. 

Cheers


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## justaCanonuser (Mar 18, 2021)

sanj said:


> I am in the minority it seems. R5 fulfils all my needs as of today.


Be careful with such comments - otherwise you'll be picked up by the Minority Report of the CHA (Canon Haters Association)


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## slclick (Mar 18, 2021)

It's about time we had some of these highly trained professionals school the rest of us on what is up. Where would we be without them? 

Pass the popcorn


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## JohnC (Mar 18, 2021)

unfocused said:


> And to think I used to defend this guy. Now I think he's just a pompous a** with a fantasy existence that rivals Harry Film. 100% keepers. Yeah right.


I actually always had the thought that it was the pros that were good enough to use various and multiple points for autofocus as the circumstances called for. I didn't realize that I was regressing, I started with a single point (it was a 5D afterall), I didn't realize that method was the pinnacle of professionalism.


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## slclick (Mar 18, 2021)

Popcorn time


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## privatebydesign (Mar 19, 2021)

JohnC said:


> I actually always had the thought that it was the pros that were good enough to use various and multiple points for autofocus as the circumstances called for. I didn't realize that I was regressing, I started with a single point (it was a 5D afterall), I didn't realize that method was the pinnacle of professionalism.


From my limited experience with the 1DX III the one reason I would upgrade from my MkII is the AF button improvement. That little infra red thing is an absolute killer addition for fast AF point movement.


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## JohnC (Mar 19, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> From my limited experience with the 1DX III the one reason I would upgrade from my MkII is the AF button improvement. That little infra red thing is an absolute killer addition for fast AF point movement.


I’m most definitely not an expert when. It comes to action photography, nearly all of my experience has been manually focused landscape work. I’ve done some of course, but never consistently and therefore not at the level of quality one can come to expect with experience and practice. 

That began to change a little with the 5d4 body (5D and 5d2 previously). I do have the ole eos 3 which had unique tech for its day. In any event it was when I picked up the m62 that I really started choosing different subjects and shooting in nearly a daily basis. I know for a fact that being able to co tell focus point location by dragging my thumb across the back screen was a large part of that. I have the r5 set up the same way. 

I realize the 1d series is and was on a different level from an AF standpoint, but even with the inherent drawbacks to and EVF vs OVF it seems impossible to deny what mirrorless tech has done for autofocusing.

And speaking of EVF use, I actually shot a long exposure image with 16 stops of nd filter hanging on front. What’s amazing was I was able to compose AFTER placing the filters because the evf allowed me to see! Then I could change comps without taking the set up off! Never happen with OVF, just isn’t possible.

Sure there are things I think an OVF is better for. Following action being one of them. Everything is a compromise however. With one you can follow action easy but achieving focus where you want it is at least more difficult. With the other you can focus just about anywhere but following is more difficult. Pick you poison.

***Apologize for my grammar and spelling, phones are not the best places to compose responses.


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## GoldWing (Mar 19, 2021)

unfocused said:


> And to think I used to defend this guy. Now I think he's just a pompous a** with a fantasy existence that rivals Harry Film. 100% keepers. Yeah right.


I said "about 100%" but why would a fool who can't read, comprehend facts or even have basic knowledge of photography call one of the best photographers in the U.S. pompous? No doubt you're one of people who comes to us begs for a job and can't meet our standards. We hire the best in the world not amatures who don't produce spot on perfect work at EVERY game.


----------



## unfocused (Mar 19, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> ...call one of the best photographers in the U.S. pompous?...


Gee...I don't know.


----------



## JohnC (Mar 19, 2021)

A very wise man once told me "if you are that good, you won't need to talk about it others will do that for you". Another one told me something along the lines of that if you have to resort to insults in an argument you have already lost the argument. I don't remember the exact words but...

Both have seemed to be pretty true statements in my experience.


----------



## mdcmdcmdc (Mar 25, 2021)

I’m confused. Is there still an unknown “new camera not named the R1” coming in 2H 2021?

Everybody thought it was going to be the R5s, but the recent rumor pushes that back to 2022.

Is it the R5c? I assumed not because that was teased in a different rumor on March 9, a week *before* this one, but it solidified in a follow-on rumor posted on March 17 (two days *after* this one) for ”announcement in late 2021”.

Is there something else coming this year, or am I the only one who is unclear on the concept?


----------



## Michael Clark (Apr 3, 2021)

Wiki Tango said:


> I still believe that the trademark for THE professional Canon camera is still
> 
> EOS-1
> 
> ...



They dropped the EOS-1 nomenclature about 20 years ago when they introduced the EOS 1D.

Before the EOS system the top camera was the F1 and then the F1 New (yes, that was the actual model name).

It will be the EOS R1 because Canon wants to put the emphasis on it being part of the R mount and the new RF lenses.


----------



## Michael Clark (Apr 3, 2021)

jam05 said:


> You can expect the R1 released prior to the Summer Oltmpics opening ceremony July 23rd. Admin originally missed the R5 by a year also. Canan has always released its 1Dx prior to the summer Olympics. You can expect the same. Likely will be deluvered to the Olympic venues first, just as they did in Rio, except no need for shipping.



Canon has never released a 1Dx. 

There's never been an event called the Summer Oltmpics, either.

Canan has never made a single camera. Ever.

No Canon camera, including the 1D X series traditionally released in Q1 of Summer Olympic years, has ever had louvers that required them to be deluvered, either.


----------



## Michael Clark (Apr 3, 2021)

unfocused said:


> Actually, they do. Canon (and all the other camera manufacturers) are increasingly dependent on enthusiasts with disposable income to sustain their business. The old user base of professionals is shrinking and is now too small to sustain a market for 1 series bodies.



Sad but true. I've been saying as much for years and being constantly told how the "pros" are the only market Canon cares about for the 1-Series. Yeah, right. 

Canon saw the handwriting on the wall a long time ago. That's why the 1Ds series morphed into the 5D Mark III and 5D Mark IV after the 1D X was announced in 2012 with no corresponding higher megapixel 1D Xs. Compare the 2008 5D Mark II AF system to the 2012 5D Mark III AF system that used the same hardware as the 2012 1D X. The 2016 5D Mark IV has the same AF hardware as the 2016 1D X Mark II.


----------



## Michael Clark (Apr 3, 2021)

ctk said:


> Yep. No plans to purchase anything more expensive than that so I couldn't care less. Will happily replace my current R with one even if the R loses a ton of value as a result. I just want my R with IBIS and a useful control to replace the touch bar. They can even ditch the top LCD and magnesium body for all I care.



It's called the EOS R6.


----------



## Michael Clark (Apr 3, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> The RP does leave Canon with a lot of available names.
> There could be an RP5, RP6, RP10, RP100, etc.
> The R7 is supposed to be APS-C.
> If Canon does that then it does not leave them a lot of room for full-frame mirrorless models starting with only the letter R followed by a number.



Sure it does. 

R10, R20, R30, R40, R50, R60, R60a, R70, R77, R80, R90...


----------



## Michael Clark (Apr 3, 2021)

neurorx said:


> I keep wondering, if it were an R7, what would it have that would be a big step up from an R5? More fps isn't a big great ask (do we need more than is in the R5 or R6? Lower MP? Not sure how much that really matters (20 vs 45, as 30...does that really give us anything?) Any ideas on what an R7 might bring besides a crop sensor?
> 
> I would think the high resolution R would be most likely. Bummed about no R1, but it gives me more time to save.



Cropped to APS-C dimensions, the 45MP EOS R5 only gives about 17 MP. An R7 is likely to at least match the 32 MP sensor found in the 90D and M6 Mark III. That is the same pixel density as an 82MP FF sensor.


----------



## Michael Clark (Apr 3, 2021)

justaCanonuser said:


> I just checked my local dealer's online shop (Frankfurt, Germany): the 7DII isn't offered anymore. On Amazon still are several offerings, but this could be just some stocks. Looks a bit like Canon really phased out the production of the 7DII, despite saying that officially. I do hope for an R7, for birding...



The 7D Mark II was officially discontinued about three or four years ago. Since then, only the 7D Mark II + W-E1 stock number has been available. Be sure you're looking for the right listing. A lot of places have that stock number on back order, but say they will be getting more soon. It may be that Canon let production get behind in order to respond to the overwhelming demand for the R5 and R6 at a time when supply chain problems where at a peak.


----------



## Michael Clark (Apr 3, 2021)

Traveler said:


> why not full frame?



Why does it only have to be one or the other? Why not both? Why not different tools for different use cases?


----------



## Michael Clark (Apr 3, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> It will be a long time before I really hit the limits of what my R5 can do... which is a good thing!
> Love playing with 4k120 as a previous stills-only shooter - even with only a 128GB CFe card. Was shooting hot air balloons inflating last weekend and got some nice stills and footage (is that still a term??) of the burns



On the other hand, some of us would prefer not to wear out our new and expensive R5 bodies on "high mileage" sports/action that requires us to crop to APS-C dimensions anyway if we can't justify spending what it takes to get a 300/2.8 or 400/2.8 to use under the (poor) lighting at high school/youth sports facilities. So bring on an R7 for the high mileage assignments and let us save the R5 for when we really need all that it has to offer.


----------



## Michael Clark (Apr 3, 2021)

Hector1970 said:


> You've got a point there


Well, I need at least one and the relative needs at least one, so that means we need two, right?


----------



## Michael Clark (Apr 3, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> From my limited experience with the 1DX III the one reason I would upgrade from my MkII is the AF button improvement. That little infra red thing is an absolute killer addition for fast AF point movement.



Not to mention that iTR actually _works_ with the 1D X mark III! It's like cheating! You use the initial AF point to tell the camera what you want it to track and then the camera just tracks it!


----------



## Michael Clark (Apr 3, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> I said "about 100%" but why would a fool who can't read, comprehend facts or even have basic knowledge of photography call one of the best photographers in the U.S. pompous? No doubt you're one of people who comes to us begs for a job and can't meet our standards. We hire the best in the world not amatures who don't produce spot on perfect work at EVERY game.



It's a good thing your job doesn't depend upon you being able to correctly spell amateur even 1% of the time. 

For the record, the word amateur means someone who does something for the love of doing that thing. It makes absolutely no inference that an amateur does that thing at an inferior level. On the other hand, the word professional only infers that one does something in exchange for monetary compensation, regardless of the level of performance. Kind of like a w***e.

There are plenty of people who are (or were, at their zenith several years ago) actually at the top of the heap in their field who are rather pompous. Woody Allen has always been a jerk. So has Dan Rather, Alec Baldwin, Howard Stern, and Rush Limbaugh. Faye Dunaway, Barbra Streisand, Steve Jobs, Jeff Bezos, Kanye West, Elon Musk, Tom Cruse, etc. are all known to be rather full of themselves.


----------



## ctk (Apr 3, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> It's called the EOS R6.


20MP? No thanks. You can spare me the impassioned arguments over how I won't miss the resolution yadda yadda. Point is I don't want to pay more for a camera that has less of the things that are important to me. I'm happy enough with my R to stick with it for now


----------



## SteveC (Apr 3, 2021)

ctk said:


> 20MP? No thanks. You can spare me the impassioned arguments over how I won't miss the resolution yadda yadda. Point is I don't want to pay more for a camera that has less of the things that are important to me. I'm happy enough with my R to stick with it for now


 A 32 MP camera with R5 features (minus those that require 45MP, i.e., 8K and 4K downsampled from 8K) would have been my sweet spot. Or you can look at it as a 32MP R6. Actually that's probably a better comparison, since I'd be happier with dual SD slots instead of one being that horrifically expensive CFE.

I opted for overkill rather than underkill, and I can understand _exactly_ where you're coming from.


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## justaCanonuser (Apr 4, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> The 7D Mark II was officially discontinued about three or four years ago. Since then, only the 7D Mark II + W-E1 stock number has been available. Be sure you're looking for the right listing. A lot of places have that stock number on back order, but say they will be getting more soon. It may be that Canon let production get behind in order to respond to the overwhelming demand for the R5 and R6 at a time when supply chain problems where at a peak.


Never seen any official announcement, but I may have missed it. But it would be logical to phase out stock, if production would be already stopped now. The 7D2 is an old camera now. Still not bad, despite its mediocre phase AF system, I use mine frequently for birding. But it really would be time to come up with a (mirrorless) successor. Pretty sure that there would be a market for a good, fast crop camera with a not too high pixel number but improved low light performance.


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## Michael Clark (Apr 4, 2021)

justaCanonuser said:


> Never seen any official announcement, but I may have missed it. But it would be logical to phase out stock, if production would be already stopped now. The 7D2 is an old camera now. Still not bad, despite its mediocre phase AF system, I use mine frequently for birding. But it really would be time to come up with a (mirrorless) successor. Pretty sure that there would be a market for a good, fast crop camera with a not too high pixel number but improved low light performance.



Models that old go in and out of production as needed to stockpile predicted sales until the next scheduled production run. Right now, with the crunch on flash memory and chips in general, as well as overall supply chain issues caused by the disruption of COVID-19 and the fire at a major chip fabricator, I'd be surprised if 7D Mark II production was not currently on hiatus. Whether Canon has decided to make some more when capacity loosens up or has decided that the curtain on the 7D Mark II has been closed remains to be seen. But if the fat lady hasn't already begun singing, she's definitely been warming up her voice.


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## David - Sydney (Apr 6, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> On the other hand, some of us would prefer not to wear out our new and expensive R5 bodies on "high mileage" sports/action that requires us to crop to APS-C dimensions anyway if we can't justify spending what it takes to get a 300/2.8 or 400/2.8 to use under the (poor) lighting at high school/youth sports facilities. So bring on an R7 for the high mileage assignments and let us save the R5 for when we really need all that it has to offer.


High mileage assignments? The R5's shutter life is 500k actuations (same as 1DX iii) compared to 150k for the 5Div, 200k for the 7Dii and 300k for the R6. Using the eshutter doesn't affect the shutter life of course.
I contend that the 7D series are a marketing unicorn with fast fps, weather sealing, dual card and top AF in a relatively cheap body. I can't see all these features coming in a R7 body. All these features are already in R5/R6. A crop sensor would have a cheaper fab cost than full frame but I can't see that translating to a big price decrease compared to the R6.
I'm just not convinced that there is a big enough difference to the R6 to warrant a R7 and the required new RF-S wide angle lenses that a crop sensor would need (10-16mm plus maybe some primes). Alternatively, Canon may say to use an ef-R adaptor and EF-S lenses.
The only benefit for a crop sensor over the R5/R6 would be if there is a greater pixel density. Perhaps a crop version of the R5s' sensor.


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## Michael Clark (Apr 14, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> High mileage assignments? The R5's shutter life is 500k actuations (same as 1DX iii) compared to 150k for the 5Div, 200k for the 7Dii and 300k for the R6. Using the eshutter doesn't affect the shutter life of course.
> I contend that the 7D series are a marketing unicorn with fast fps, weather sealing, dual card and top AF in a relatively cheap body. I can't see all these features coming in a R7 body. All these features are already in R5/R6. A crop sensor would have a cheaper fab cost than full frame but I can't see that translating to a big price decrease compared to the R6.
> I'm just not convinced that there is a big enough difference to the R6 to warrant a R7 and the required new RF-S wide angle lenses that a crop sensor would need (10-16mm plus maybe some primes). Alternatively, Canon may say to use an ef-R adaptor and EF-S lenses.
> The only benefit for a crop sensor over the R5/R6 would be if there is a greater pixel density. Perhaps a crop version of the R5s' sensor.



At the time the 7D Mark II came out in 2014, the 1D X had a shutter durability rating of 400,000 actuations. But the 5D Mark III, and the 5D Mark IV that followed in 2016, only had 150,000 ratings. The 1D X was 18 MP (giving only 7MP cropped to APS-C "reach") and the 5D Mark III was only 22 MP (giving only 8.6MP at an APS-C crop) and slower handling. The 1D X could do 12fps, the 7D Mark II could do 10fps, and the 5D Mark III could only do 6fps and bogged down in fewer frames than either the 1D X or 7D Mark II.

Yes, the 500K shutter rating, equal to the 1D X Mark III, and 12fps (mechanical) of the R5 does make the calculation a little different from comparing the 200K/10fps 7D Mark II to the 150K shutter rating/6fps of the 5D Mark III and 5D Mark IV. But who's to say an R7 is only going to have a 200K shutter? I would expect if we get an R7, it will have a higher shutter durability rating than the 7D Mark II. The R6, at 300,000, is quite the improvement over the unrated 6D Mark II and the 6D with a 100,000 rating. Perhaps the R7 would be somewhere in the 300K-400K range?

Any APS-C camera can have the same sensor transit time at 1/1.6X the same curtain acceleration/deceleration/average speed, or 1/1.6X the transit time at the same average speed. Using the same technology in the R6 shutter scaled down by 1.6X would give it a 1.6X faster transit time. Reducing the transit time to match the R6 would make it cheaper if using lower grade components or more durable if using the same grade components.

The R6, with a 20MP FF sensor that crops to only 8MP, is a non-consideration for the same use case when one would expect at least a 30MP APS-C sensor in any forthcoming R7.

*Even if it is the same price, or even slightly more than the R6, many would be attracted to basically an R6 body with a 32MP APS-C sensor inside (giving the same pixel density as an 82MP FF sensor - that's a FAR cry from the R6's lower pixel density.) *

Why would Canon make a scaled sown 18 MP version of the R5 sensor when they've already got a 32MP APS-C sensor used in the 90D and M6 Mark II? The 32MP APS-C sensor is much newer technology (2019 vs. 2014) and performs noticeably better than the "vintage" 20MP sensor in the 7D Mark II. Many of us would have bought a 90D if the 7D Mark II's AF system and the 200,000 shutter durability rating had been included. Instead, Canon chose to keep the lower grade 80D AF system in the 90D and give it only a 120,000 actuation rated shutter. It had the sensor we wanted, but not the durability we needed. The R6 has, perhaps, the durability - but it does not have the sensor we need.

Lack of wide angle lenses is not much of a consideration, either, as most 7D Mark II users used telephoto lenses on them and chose the higher pixel density APS-C sensor to get more "reach" from their telephoto lenses. *For those who even do WA work, they used their FF cameras for that.* 

Not many who want an R7 want _only_ an R7. They want one R7 to supplement one R5 or R6 when higher pixel density shooting sports/action is needed for the "long" body while simultaneously using the R6/R5 as their "wide" body, rather than having to buy two R5 bodies or an R5 plus R6. Only if the price of an R7 gets close to the price of an R5 would it make more sense to use an R5 in crop mode as the "long" body and an R6 in FF mode as the "wide" body. But even then the R5 cropped to APS-C is only 18MP, rather than 32MP. That can be quite the difference when "reach" without spending a mint is a key consideration. Shooting high school and youth sports can cover the cost of a 70-200/2.8. It's hard to cover the cost of a 300/2.8, much less a 400/2.8, and have anything left for all one's trouble.

Given a choice, I'd rather use an R5 at 45MP (short body) and R7 at 32MP (long body) combo than an R6 at 20MP (short) and R5 at 17MP in crop mode (long) if the cost is the same. If I'm really budget challenged, I could use an R6 (short) and R7 (long) combo. I'd have two bodies that, together, give me most of what the R5 can do for only about $500-600 more than a single R5.


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## EOS 4 Life (Apr 14, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> I'm just not convinced that there is a big enough difference to the R6 to warrant a R7 and the required new RF-S wide angle lenses that a crop sensor would need (10-16mm plus maybe some primes).


A big advantage to crop sensors is the extra reach.
For wide-angle it would make more sense to use a focal reducer and a full-frame lens.
That is how I use my G9.
I have no wide-angle MFT lenses.


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## TravelerNick (Apr 14, 2021)

EOS 4 Life said:


> A big advantage to crop sensors is the extra reach.
> For wide-angle it would make more sense to use a focal reducer and a full-frame lens.
> That is how I use my G9.
> I have no wide-angle MFT lenses.



Or just have a full frame body for wide angle use. But even that assumes people wouldn't just use FF WA lenses


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## David - Sydney (Apr 14, 2021)

Michael Clark said:


> At the time the 7D Mark II came out in 2014, the 1D X had a shutter durability rating of 400,000 actuations. But the 5D Mark III, and the 5D Mark IV that followed in 2016, only had 150,000 ratings. The 1D X was 18 MP (giving only 7MP cropped to APS-C "reach") and the 5D Mark III was only 22 MP (giving only 8.6MP at an APS-C crop) and slower handling. The 1D X could do 12fps, the 7D Mark II could do 10fps, and the 5D Mark III could only do 6fps and bogged down in fewer frames than either the 1D X or 7D Mark II.
> 
> Yes, the 500K shutter rating, equal to the 1D X Mark III, and 12fps (mechanical) of the R5 does make the calculation a little different from comparing the 200K/10fps 7D Mark II to the 150K shutter rating/6fps of the 5D Mark III and 5D Mark IV. But who's to say an R7 is only going to have a 200K shutter? I would expect if we get an R7, it will have a higher shutter durability rating than the 7D Mark II. The R6, at 300,000, is quite the improvement over the unrated 6D Mark II and the 6D with a 100,000 rating. Perhaps the R7 would be somewhere in the 300K-400K range?
> 
> ...


Quite an essay!
I bought a 7D as my only camera due to cost. To assume that all or most crop sensor buyers would buy a R7 as a second body is based on your experience. Your assumption that the R7 will be 
Relatively cheap like the 7D/ii is a big assumption


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## londonxt (Apr 14, 2021)

londonxt said:


> An R5 with disabled video function would be exciting for me (although given up on ever seeing eye-controlled focus making a comeback!)..
> 
> ...the *R3*?



Called it


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## Michael Clark (Apr 14, 2021)

David - Sydney said:


> Quite an essay!
> I bought a 7D as my only camera due to cost. To assume that all or most crop sensor buyers would buy a R7 as a second body is based on your experience. Your assumption that the R7 will be
> Relatively cheap like the 7D/ii is a big assumption



Cheap is always a relative term. Compared to the R5, the R6 is cheap. Currently the R5 sells for 152% what the R6 is going for in the U.S. ($3,800 vs. $2,500). If history is any indication (though it may not be with the unique market conditions we currently have regarding production capacity and the current state of the memory market), the R6 will start edging down in price well before the R5 will. Compare the prices of the 6D and 6D Mark II eighteen months after introduction to the prices of the contemporary 5D Mark III and 5D Mark IV eighteen months after introduction. Will the R7 be as cheap as the 7D was? No. But then the R5 is not as cheap as the 5D series was, and the R6 is not as cheap as the 6D series was, either.

As for the typical user of the 7D and 7D Mark II: It seems to me based on my experience at a lot of youth sports and high school sporting events as well as hot air balloon festivals, air shows, etc. over the past decade plus there were a lot more folks who bought a 7D as a single body than there were who later bought the 7D Mark II as their only body. I knew plenty of folks who had a single 7D. I knew almost no one who had a 7D Mark II that didn't also have at least a 6D, if not one or more 5-series bodies. A lot of that had to do with the introduction of the 6D in 2012 that lowered the price of admission to the FF club from $3,500 to $2,200. Most of the original 7Ds that were sold had already been bought by then. After the 70D came along in 2013, sales of the 7D dropped even more. Even those who wanted a 7D rather than a 70D or 6D were waiting for the 7D Mark II, which many expected to see as early as 2011 or 2012, based on the replacement cycles of the 30D/40D/50D/etc.

With how Canon "downgraded" the 60D compared to the 50D in many ways, a lot of folks who wanted a replacement for their 50D chose the 7D. The shot-to-shot inconsistency of the 7D's AF system frustrated many of us and when the 70D was introduced with a slightly better sensor most of those folks shooting a single "prosumer" crop body went back to the x0D line and left the 7D line as a specialized sports/action camera to be used with FF telephoto lenses to give more "reach".

That movement only increased when the 80D was rolled out barely a year after the 7D Mark II. The 80D was a better general purpose body than the 7D Mark II, especially when shooting below ISO400. I saw/knew a lot more folks who had a 7D as their only body than I later saw/knew who had a 7D Mark II as their only body. Almost all of the 7D as their only body folks I know eventually replaced it with either a 70D or an 80D (or a 6D if they weren't into sports/action/birding).

I saw a lot of folks shooting 7D + EF 100-400 around 2010-13 at balloon festivals, airshows, and the like. By 2014-17, those same folks were shooting 70D/80D bodies with the EF 100-400 II.


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