# 6D Mark-II in response to the D750



## StudentOfLight (Sep 19, 2014)

Will the 6D Mark-II be a response to the D750 much like the 6D was a response to the D600. As the 6D is Canon's budget FF camera it is possibly due for an update. By giving it a 70D form factor it would provide even more differentiation from the 5D line from an ergonomics perspective. What would you think are some potential specs that will keep it relevant for the next two years?

18-22MP DPAF, 6fps
41pt AF system
Pop-up flash
Articulated touch LCD
[email protected], [email protected]
Mic-in + Headphone-out
Built-in Wifi & GPS


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## Marsu42 (Sep 19, 2014)

StudentOfLight said:


> Will the 6D Mark-II be a response to the D750 much like the 6D was a response to the D600.



Given the laughable af system of the 6d, the model wasn't a "response" in terms of specs, but simply of positioning a ff (any ff) in the same price range.

Simply dropping the price of the more expensive produced 5d2 with legacy parts wasn't an option, so they simply created the 6d with more recent parts and some gimmicks. That's why I don't think there will be a 6d2 anytime soon as long as the 6d1 keeps creating profit for Canon.


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## Maximilian (Sep 19, 2014)

Seeing your "potential specs" (and not even discussing them in detail) there has to be a 5D4 release first. Otherwise Canon is cannibalizing their FF cash cow 5D3. 
IMHO this won't happen untill mid to late 2015 and then there has to be some additional 3 to 5 month until a 6D2 would be released.
Conclusion: I'd say +1 to marsu's statement.


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## StudentOfLight (Sep 19, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > Will the 6D Mark-II be a response to the D750 much like the 6D was a response to the D600.
> ...


A "6D-II" or "8D" could sell in parallel if it had a different form factor. Anyway, to jumble your words, _simply dropping the price of the already cheap 6D isn't an option, so they'll simply create a ~6D-II/8D~ with more recent parts and some gimmicks and with proven legacy parts._


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## Coldhands (Sep 19, 2014)

I really don't think there's a need for Canon to introduce a anything in the short-term to defend against the D750. This section of the market has too much "inertia", by which I mean owners are too invested in the system to commit knee-jerk reactions and switch brands just because of a perceived technological advantage of one body.

More likely would be a minor price drop of the 6D and/or 5DIII, but even that's probably being optimistic.


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## tron (Sep 19, 2014)

An update of 5DMkIII is the proper response. D750 is not an entry level FF.


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## StudentOfLight (Sep 19, 2014)

Maximilian said:


> Seeing your "potential specs" (and not even discussing them in detail) there has to be a 5D4 release first. Otherwise Canon is cannibalizing their FF cash cow 5D3.
> IMHO this won't happen untill mid to late 2015 and then there has to be some additional 3 to 5 month until a 6D2 would be released.
> Conclusion: I'd say +1 to marsu's statement.


I never thought the 7D-II would have both *10fps* and a *better AF-system* (on paper at least) than the 1D-X. It does and it will not cannibalize 1D-X sales. Canon knows how to tactically differentiate (cripple) products so if they do not want it to cannibalize 5D-III sales then they can control it:

Better high ISO ... but lower resolution
4K ...but can only record compressed .mp5
Dual SD card slots ...but only slot 1 is UHS-1 compatible
Mic-in ...but no Headphone-out
6fps... but only rated to 100,000 cycles
 ...1/4000s max shutter speed
 ...1/180s sync speed


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## Marsu42 (Sep 19, 2014)

StudentOfLight said:


> I never thought the 7D-II would have both 10fps and a better AF-system (*on paper at least*) than the 1D-X.



There you are. Hardware specs mean nothing w/o the firmware, and Canon will a) make sure the 1dx isn't cannibalized (see the removal of spot af 7d->70d) and b) generally the 1d systems get much more fine-tuning and customizations.


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## StudentOfLight (Sep 19, 2014)

Coldhands said:


> I really don't think there's a need for Canon to introduce a anything in the short-term to defend against the D750. This section of the market has too much "inertia", by which I mean owners are too invested in the system to commit knee-jerk reactions and switch brands just because of a perceived technological advantage of one body.
> 
> More likely would be a minor price drop of the 6D and/or 5DIII, but even that's probably being optimistic.


Not every photographer is too invested in a system. According to some data shared in other threads, most DSLR owners only use the kit lens. There is a big market out there that would be using an APS-C body with only one (DX or EF-S) kit-lens so moving to full frame they would need to buy new lens(es) anyway for full frame coverage. These people could all be considering moving to consumer oriented full frame body (with Kit lens) and maybe supplementing that with a couple of cheap f/1.8 primes.

I agree the 6D is unlikely to move much in price as it already is at the budget end of the spectrum and offers great value for money. OTOH, there is still a lot of room for the 5D-III to drop in my country. I bought mine last year for R29,500 (equiv to $2,800) and today it's retailing for R37,000 (equiv to $3,300).


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## cosmopotter (Sep 19, 2014)

lonelywhitelights said:


> I love the 6D as it is. It's a stripped down, simpler 5D3 with the benefits of GPS, wi-fi, accurate focusing down to -3EV and better high ISO performance than the 5D3, it's why I bought it in the first place. If the 6DII turned into a budget FF shooter primarily aimed at video shooters, like your specs suggest, then there's no way I'd be interested in such a camera. Not interested in cameras that are full of features I'll never use.



I have a 70D and I'm going to add a 6D shortly. I want to use them for different things so I'm going to have 2 bodies. I want the 6D for portraits and landscapes and will continue to use my 70D for sports and video. I do have to say that I would feel much better about the 6D if it didn't have such a limited AF system. Just adding the 19CP system similar to the 70D would would make me feel better about it and that ONE feature wouldn't cannibalize the 5DIII. The AF system from an old Rebel doesn't make me feel good about buying a FF but it is my only option right now.

I also won't be surprised if there is a 1D upgrade next month in NY. All this talk about the 7DII having better AF than the 1D can't be left alone for too long. They also need to keep up with or ahead of the D4s, so I expect change. That will trickle down to a 5D4 perhaps at Photokina 2015.

Big ships turn slowly.


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## mrzero (Sep 19, 2014)

The 5DIII came out before the 6D, so it seems likely that we'll get a 5DIV before a 6DII. Regardless, the 6D fills a niche between 5D- and 7D- series, and they aren't going to change it much. Probably upgrade the AF system a bit since everybody complains about it. It would be nice if all the points were cross-type. Adding DPAF would be cool, but I'm not holding my breath. I doubt that it will get more AF points. Agreed that there is no reason to change the form factor. No flip screen necessary. I would like to see the dual card slots like the 5DIII and 7DII have, though.

A real dream would be adding an RT controller since it lacks the pop-up flash. But that won't happen, because it would be too damn cool.

Regardless, if you're a crop shooter with some full-frame glass, when the 6DII gets announced you should pick up the original 6D at the bargain prices. For the fun of it.


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## andrewflo (Sep 19, 2014)

Highly doubt the 6D, 5D, or any other Canon DSLR will be getting 4K before the C100 and C300.


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## zlatko (Sep 19, 2014)

lonelywhitelights said:


> I love the 6D as it is. It's a stripped down, simpler 5D3 with the benefits of GPS, wi-fi, accurate focusing down to -3EV and better high ISO performance than the 5D3, it's why I bought it in the first place. If the 6DII turned into a budget FF shooter primarily aimed at video shooters, like your specs suggest, then there's no way I'd be interested in such a camera. Not interested in cameras that are full of features I'll never use.



Same here. The 6D works for me as is. The AF is not the top of the line, but it works and it's very, very accurate on the center point. In fact, I'm continually amazed by the center point accuracy with lenses like the 50/1.2L shot at or near 1.2. It's definitely a new level of accuracy, above what the 5D2 offered.

Cameras are not a "response" to other cameras. They're conceived and in development long before their announcement. These companies compete, but they're not "responding" to each other's announcement from the month before.


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## StudentOfLight (Sep 19, 2014)

Maximilian said:


> Seeing your "potential specs" (and not even discussing them in detail) there has to be a 5D4 release first. Otherwise Canon is cannibalizing their FF cash cow 5D3.
> IMHO this won't happen untill mid to late 2015 and then there has to be some additional 3 to 5 month until a 6D2 would be released.
> Conclusion: I'd say +1 to marsu's statement.


Some people suggest that the semi/pro 5D-line has a longer update cycle (4-5yr) whereas the 6D, which is more consumer oriented, could have a shorter update cycle (2-3yr).


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## StudentOfLight (Sep 19, 2014)

andrewflo said:


> Highly doubt the 6D, 5D, or any other Canon DSLR will be getting 4K before the C100 and C300.


The 1D-C has 4K unless we ignore that one. 

DSLR-video and Cine are not really the same markets. The people that are willing to shoot video on DSLR are not the ones who are gonna buy/rent into the C100/C300/C500 system.The C-xxx cameras offer better audio options, ergonomics and features (some of which can be gotten through ML) for cinematography C100/C300. At the moment Canon DSC only take 3.5mm Mic-in, I mean the 1D-X doesn't even have headphone-out. And as I mentioned in another reply, 4K capability could easily be limited (e.g. Compressed-only), so suitable for casual video but not great for more serious videography.


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## Sabaki (Sep 19, 2014)

My opinion is that the 6Dii will take more from what the 5Div turns out to be. 

Canon will no doubt put something 'best of class' into it, like it did with the lowlight focussing of the 6D, then do a 5Div tear down to define which camera is for the higher and lower segments 

I would ask for just three improvements:

1. AF system needs to be clearly better than the XXXD line. Something in the 40 AF point region would suffice. 
2. Build quality. 6D feels too cheap after you've handled a 7D, 5Dii or 5Diii. 
3. Built in RF communicator with Canon putting a touch screen interface that's identical to the ST-E3. I mean, wouldn't it be just beautiful if the MR-24EX mkii was just the lighting mechanism and the control unit built into the camera?


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## StudentOfLight (Sep 19, 2014)

cosmopotter said:


> I have a 70D and I'm going to add a 6D shortly. I want to use them for different things so I'm going to have 2 bodies. I want the 6D for portraits and landscapes and will continue to use my 70D for sports and video. I do have to say that I would feel much better about the 6D if it didn't have such a limited AF system. Just adding the 19CP system similar to the 70D would would make me feel better about it and that ONE feature wouldn't cannibalize the 5DIII. The AF system from an old Rebel doesn't make me feel good about buying a FF but it is my only option right now.


Yeah for me the AF is the only glaring issue on the 6D spec sheet.


cosmopotter said:


> I also won't be surprised if there is a 1D upgrade next month in NY. All this talk about the 7DII having better AF than the 1D can't be left alone for too long. They also need to keep up with or ahead of the D4s, so I expect change. That will trickle down to a 5D4 perhaps at Photokina 2015.


We'll have to see real performance reviews but I'm pleasantly surprised by what Canon's put on the table. But 1D-X offer significantly better low-light IQ and 20% fast FPS. In a fast-action continuous-burst sequence that could mean the difference between having 2 selectable shots vs just 1. I am also eager to see a "big MP" announcement next month, not that I can afford it. :'(

P.S. I think you you made a typo, next Photokina will be 2016.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 19, 2014)

Consider that you can get a 6D from a authorized Dealer for $1440, while a D750 costs $2300, almost $860 more. I would not want to pay $2300 for a 6D MK II. I can buy a 5D MK III for near $2300 if I wanted another one.

They are not competitors. The Nikon D6XX series is the competition.


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## StudentOfLight (Sep 19, 2014)

Sabaki said:


> My opinion is that the 6Dii will take more from what the 5Div turns out to be.
> 
> Canon will no doubt put something 'best of class' into it, like it did with the lowlight focussing of the 6D, then do a 5Div tear down to define which camera is for the higher and lower segments
> 
> ...


On your points:
1. Agree 100%
2. The 6D is cheap. I consider it a consumer grade product that offers top-notch IQ. I have no issue with it feeling cheap (from a durability perspective) as long as the main controls hold up and it delivers beautiful files. If I want more durability I'm willing to pay for it. 
3. For the countries where ST-E3 is already allowed I say why not? Canon says "We have an amazing radio flash system (ST-E3-RT sold separately)"

(P.S. Don't tell anyone, but I've dropped my 6D... TWICE. Metal resists crushing, so for slow application of high pressure, metal construction is good. Plastic and rubber are good shock absorbers. So for me I don't mind rubber/plastic exterior covers. My cameras to be more likely to suffer moderate shock/impact than to take heavy pressure which is applied more slowly.)


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## StudentOfLight (Sep 19, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Consider that you can get a 6D from a authorized Dealer for $1440, while a D750 costs $2300, almost $860 more. I would not want to pay $2300 for a 6D MK II. I can buy a 5D MK III for near $2300 if I wanted another one.
> 
> They are not competitors. The Nikon D6XX series is the competition.


Unfortunately not everyone lives in the US so that pricing structure does not apply to me.

The launch price in South Africa for a D750 is R30,000 ($2,700 equiv), whereas the 5D-III is R37,000 ($3,360 equiv) and the 6D is R21,000 ($1,850 equiv). The 5D-III is almost 2x more than the 6D so there is a gaping hole that the D750 fills. There is room for a reasonable Canon offer to undercut the D750 on price or a differently-abled Canon body (better low-light / DPAF) to compete at the same price point.

I am interested in the D750 form factor but hopefully at a lower price.


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## Sabaki (Sep 19, 2014)

StudentOfLight said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > Consider that you can get a 6D from a authorized Dealer for $1440, while a D750 costs $2300, almost $860 more. I would not want to pay $2300 for a 6D MK II. I can buy a 5D MK III for near $2300 if I wanted another one.
> ...



A fellow Mzanzian!!!

Where in SA you from? And yup, SA pricing sucks


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## Khalai (Sep 19, 2014)

My only complaints about 6D are the lack of joystick I'm used to from my 7D. But this goes hand in hand with rather crude AF system it has. Give it e.g. 19 Xtype AF points in the shape of the 7D pattern and I'll be happy camper. Give it dual SD slots and better DoF button and I'll be overjoyed. But for what it does, the 6D is amazing performer, it just lacks in the "pro" features deparment and that quite alright, given its position in the lineup.

Btw: right now, in my country (Czech rep.), Canon hands out free Wacom Intuos Pro M tablets with 6D as well as LR5 and 1-year subscription for Adobe CC. Sweet deal IMHO.


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## Chuck Alaimo (Sep 19, 2014)

uggg... where to start. For one, the whole respond respond respond thing is growing quite tiresome. Maybe, just maybe canon has a plan and they are releasing things according to that plan? But, for the sake of playing along...

Let's go the other way, when will nikon respond to the d750? I mean, the d600 had better specs than the 6d but nikon had to respond to their own body with a d610, and now they are responding to the d610 with the d750 (or they just finally read all the survey cards from 2011). 

Sorry but Canon seems like the company that does have their act together here. The 6d, while gimped with limited AF points is standing the test of time. It's a solid camera that canon has not had to replace with a 6d.1 due to poor workmanship, and then replacing it a third time with a whole new body name under the guise of upgrading an older product that isn't even the thing nikon users actually wanted!!!!!

Is there a d6xx series anymore, or is that totally dropped. The d750 makes zero sense to me - if the intent was to put out a body that could be more of a direct competitor to the 5dmk3, then why did they gimp it to be slightly better than the d6xx's and slightly worse than the d8xxx???? Nikon could have used the same shell as the d810, same AF, same everything but swap the image sensor for the 24 MP exmor ----done deal, you then have a pro spec'ed prosumer body with high fps, great AF and large enough files to have some leg room to work with but not overly huge like the d8xx. Nope, they didn't do that though and that leaves the 5d3mk3 on it's own in the field... While I am not one for...compny A hasto respnd to company b, sorry but it seems to me like nikon has struggled to find a true competitor to the 5d3, it took them 5 bodies to get close but still they could not do it. 

Now o the Original point...6d mark 2.

I may be one fo the few here to say this but, I like that the current 6d is affordable and simple. I use both a 5d3 and a 6d and sometimes it's just easier to use the 6d's af because of how simple it is.

I would be perfectly happy with he 6d2 just simple having more cross points. If you wantt o get nutty, port over the old 7d's 19 point AF, either way, from where I stand more AF points mean less than more cross points (Seriously, I'd rather it keep the same 11 point AF, just make them all cross points --- please don't give me 40+ AF points but like 2 cross type)

the 6d does not need to compete on AF with the lower level stuff - your not stepping up to the 6d for AF, the sensor itself should be the thing your going after.

DPAF will be in it because I am guess all canons will have it.

Other than that, for the 6d series - I am all for a modest upgrade - a little bump in MP, more cross type points, modest upgrade to AF, and that's that.


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## dak723 (Sep 19, 2014)

StudentOfLight said:


> What would you think are some potential specs that will keep it relevant for the next two years?



I think it will be relevant for far longer than two years. I realize I am in the minority on a forum such as this, but I have no need (or means) to buy a camera every two or three years. I had the original digital rebel (300D) and it was still quite relevant for my landscape and floral photo needs for about 9 years until I replaced it last year with the 6D. I could print and sell 8" x 12" prints with the old rebel and that was good enough for me. The 6D can print nice prints up to approx. 18" x 27" (at 200 dpi), so I have no interest in higher MP (in fact, would definitely not want more MP). Since sensor technology has peaked out, for the most part, unless there is a revolutionary new approach and design to sensors, any small incremental changes are probably not even noticeable at the 8" x 12" sizes I print. I will be glad if I can get 9 years out of my 6D. I'm very happy with the IQ, the AF is excellent for the stationary subjects I shoot, and I have no interest in video.


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## moreorless (Sep 19, 2014)

StudentOfLight said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > Consider that you can get a 6D from a authorized Dealer for $1440, while a D750 costs $2300, almost $860 more. I would not want to pay $2300 for a 6D MK II. I can buy a 5D MK III for near $2300 if I wanted another one.
> ...



They don't even reflect the reality of mainstream US pricing, looking at B&H and Adorama the D750 is $2300 at both and the 5D3 is between $3200 and $3400.


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## StudentOfLight (Sep 19, 2014)

dak723 said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > What would you think are some potential specs that will keep it relevant for the next two years?
> ...


I was maybe not very clear, but I wasn't suggesting that the 6D would be irrelevant or become obsolete within two years. You should put yourself in the shoes of a potential buyer. A potential buyer is always looking for value for money. e.g. I'm still using my 60D and that's a good few years old, but would I buy a new 60D today at full price given the other options available? Definitely not. Is the 60D irrelevant or obsolete because it's 4yrs old? Definitely not.

So the question is: "Would I (as a potential buyer) order a new 6D today at full price vs other options available..." My answer is a begrudging yes :'(, knowing what I do about the Canon lens range I'd still go with 6D. But the overall AF system is still a bitter pill to swallow. Even if they just put in 9 cross-types on the Rule-of-thirds-intersections and mid-lines I'd be happy.


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## StudentOfLight (Sep 19, 2014)

moreorless said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > Mt Spokane Photography said:
> ...


I was stating facts. Is the US mainstream pricing reality more real that the ZA mainstream pricing reality?


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## StudentOfLight (Sep 19, 2014)

Sabaki said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > Mt Spokane Photography said:
> ...


I'm in Cape Town.

P.S. Nikonians get ripped off way worse in ZA than we do. You'd have to win the lotto to considering a switch


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## zlatko (Sep 19, 2014)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> uggg... where to start. For one, the whole respond respond respond thing is growing quite tiresome. Maybe, just maybe canon has a plan and they are releasing things according to that plan? But, for the sake of playing along...



Exactly! The whole "respond" / "response" / "answer" notion assumes that cameras are like sentences in a conversation and can be tossed into production at a moment's notice. 

It's more likely these products are conceived far in advance of any competitor's announcement, with countless planning, production and testing stages leading up to release. Every part has to be designed and produced. Every material has to be sourced. Every employee has to be trained. It goes on and on .... Large companies plan and plan and plan because they have to coordinate and direct a mass of people, machinery and money over long periods of time in order to achieve their goals. They have short-term plans, mid-term plans, and long-term plans.


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## StudentOfLight (Sep 19, 2014)

zlatko said:


> Chuck Alaimo said:
> 
> 
> > uggg... where to start. For one, the whole respond respond respond thing is growing quite tiresome. Maybe, just maybe canon has a plan and they are releasing things according to that plan? But, for the sake of playing along...
> ...


R&D is continuous.

DSLRs are modular products by design. This gives the manufacturer a lot of leeway to create a variety of products from a smallish pool of common core modules. If the interfaces are already specified then then R&D can be done separately for each module even by different teams or business partners around the world.

Certain interfaces are common in classes of EOS cameras:
Spatial interfaces (e.g. lens mount, flange distance, battery compartment etc.)
Media interfaces (e.g HDMI, SD, CF etc)
Electronic interfaces (e.g. for Sensor, DiG!C, AF, Metering etc.)
etc...

One of the other advantages of modular design is being able to leverage existing modules which have been already been through the R&D/testing mill. This allows them to be bring products to market faster. The better the engineers understand the platform, the more reliably they can connect the modules with minimal QC issues.

It is entirely possible that Canon has already designed and specced three different 6D-II prototypes and are just waiting for the right time to pull the trigger on launching either option A, B or C. 

So when I say "respond to..." I don't mean Canon's engineers need to sit around a table this afternoon and design (from scratch) a reply to Nikon's announcement. I also mean the years of work that's been going on behind the scenes developing (Prototype module X) and (Brand new top plate Y) combining with (Wifi module that worked last time) with (good old Tilty-flippy-LCD) and (LP-E6N)....etc


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