# R5 Firmware 1.1.0 problem



## Chris.Chapterten (Aug 31, 2020)

Hi all,

Today I updated my R5 with firmware 1.1.0 but have run into a problem. Images taken with my RF 85mm f1.2 are no longer sharp. It almost appears as if the image stabilisation is no longer working properly. Shutter speeds are 1/125 and 1/160 and at the point of focus it just isn't as sharp as it was with firmware version 1.0.0. Very strange!

Has anyone else run into this problem? I'm going to try a fresh re-install of the firmware and see if that helps... otherwise I will be contacting Canon to let them know something isn't right.

Thanks!
Chris


----------



## Chris.Chapterten (Aug 31, 2020)

This is firmware 1.1.0, all photos look like this



This is firmware 1.0.0, much better. Same shutter speed and f-stop


----------



## koenkooi (Aug 31, 2020)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> [..]Today I updated my R5 with firmware 1.1.0 but have run into a problem. Images taken with my RF 85mm f1.2 are no longer sharp. It almost appears as if the image stabilisation is no longer working properly. Shutter speeds are 1/125 and 1/160 and at the point of focus it just isn't as sharp as it was with firmware version 1.0.0. Very strange! [..]



Does it happen with lower speeds as well? I've noticed that Canon IS systems react badly to fully mechanical shutter and 1/100 - 1/160s. The most high profile case was the new EF600mm, after much pressure Canon finally admitted the issue and released a new firmware. But only for that lens.

On my RP it's almost invisible, since that only has EFCS, but on the R I rented it was noticeable with the 100L. 

If this is the same problem (resonance from fully mechanical shutter), could you see if it goes away with shutterspeeds below 1/100 and about 1/160s and/or with EFCS/ES? I'm very curious about the results, since I really wish Canon would finally fix this phenomenon across their complete product range.


----------



## Chris.Chapterten (Aug 31, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> Does it happen with lower speeds as well? I've noticed that Canon IS systems react badly to fully mechanical shutter and 1/100 - 1/160s. The most high profile case was the new EF600mm, after much pressure Canon finally admitted the issue and released a new firmware. But only for that lens.
> 
> On my RP it's almost invisible, since that only has EFCS, but on the R I rented it was noticeable with the 100L.
> 
> If this is the same problem (resonance from fully mechanical shutter), could you see if it goes away with shutterspeeds below 1/100 and about 1/160s and/or with EFCS/ES? I'm very curious about the results, since I really wish Canon would finally fix this phenomenon across their complete product range.



Thanks very much for your reply. This is all very interesting. So far I have only tested at 1/125 but will now test at other shutter speeds, both slower and faster to see what's going on.

The shutter was set to fully mechanical in the firmware version 1.1.0 photo above, but I believe the 1.0.0 photo was with EFCS. So that may indeed be the difference.

I'll report back soon. Cheers


----------



## Chris.Chapterten (Aug 31, 2020)

Looks like you were right! It seems the R5's IS does not like to be set to fully mechanical shutter at those certain shutter speeds you mentioned.

Here is 1/125 with EFCS


Here is fully mechanical at 1/50



Here is fully mechanical at 1/250


----------



## BeenThere (Aug 31, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> Does it happen with lower speeds as well? I've noticed that Canon IS systems react badly to fully mechanical shutter and 1/100 - 1/160s. The most high profile case was the new EF600mm, after much pressure Canon finally admitted the issue and released a new firmware. But only for that lens.
> 
> On my RP it's almost invisible, since that only has EFCS, but on the R I rented it was noticeable with the 100L.
> 
> If this is the same problem (resonance from fully mechanical shutter), could you see if it goes away with shutterspeeds below 1/100 and about 1/160s and/or with EFCS/ES? I'm very curious about the results, since I really wish Canon would finally fix this phenomenon across their complete product range.


Are there any downsides from using EFCS at the problematic shutter speeds other than having to remember to make the change?


----------



## koenkooi (Aug 31, 2020)

BeenThere said:


> Are there any downsides from using EFCS at the problematic shutter speeds other than having to remember to make the change?



As far as I know, the 'bokeh issue' with EFCs and f/1.2 starts at 1/500s and faster, but I don't have such lenses to test. And I lack an RF camera capable of fully mechanical till my R5 finally ships 

People keep saying Fuji has an 'auto' mode that switches from EFCS to MS around 1/500s, hopefully we'll get that option in an update as well


----------



## koenkooi (Aug 31, 2020)

Chris.Chapterten said:


> Looks like you were right! It seems the R5's IS does not like to be set to fully mechanical shutter at those certain shutter speeds you mentioned.[..]



Thanks for confirming, I really wish Canon would finally fix that instead of copy/pasting the IS algorithms. The EF600 situation involved "a lot" of people documenting the issue and sending the lenses to Canon for repairs. The response went from "Everything within specs, nothing to see here" to "Hmmm, you might have a point" and finally "This firmware fixes a phenomenon which...".

So try contacting Canon so they at least have it on record. Maybe we'll see a fix for the R5. And when pigs fly they might even fix it for the R6.


----------



## Chris.Chapterten (Aug 31, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> Thanks for confirming, I really wish Canon would finally fix that instead of copy/pasting the IS algorithms. The EF600 situation involved "a lot" of people documenting the issue and sending the lenses to Canon for repairs. The response went from "Everything within specs, nothing to see here" to "Hmmm, you might have a point" and finally "This firmware fixes a phenomenon which...".
> 
> So try contacting Canon so they at least have it on record. Maybe we'll see a fix for the R5. And when pigs fly they might even fix it for the R6.


No trouble! I have sent an email to my contact at Canon Australia to let them know about the issue. I was wondering why the R5 was set to EFCS by default out of the box and this may be why... I'm really glad it's not the firmware, but it is going to be a bit annoying having to remember to switch between the two shutter modes...


----------



## FrenchFry (Aug 31, 2020)

koenkooi said:


> As far as I know, the 'bokeh issue' with EFCs and f/1.2 starts at 1/500s and faster, but I don't have such lenses to test. And I lack an RF camera capable of fully mechanical till my R5 finally ships
> 
> People keep saying Fuji has an 'auto' mode that switches from EFCS to MS around 1/500s, hopefully we'll get that option in an update as well


Hi,
Would you please provide more information on the bokeh issue you are referring to? I have been trying to learn more about why the manual implies that bokeh with EFCS may not be as good but I haven't found much.
Thanks!


----------



## BeenThere (Aug 31, 2020)

FrenchFry said:


> Hi,
> Would you please provide more information on the bokeh issue you are referring to? I have been trying to learn more about why the manual implies that bokeh with EFCS may not be as good but I haven't found much.
> Thanks!


I found this interesting article. Even though it is written for Sony cameras, I suspect the same issues affect Canon. Bottom line, as has been said, don’t use EFCS at shutter speeds faster than 1/500 https://phillipreeve.net/blog/limitations-of-the-electronic-shutter-function/


----------



## FrenchFry (Aug 31, 2020)

BeenThere said:


> I found this interesting article. Even though it is written for Sony cameras, I suspect the same issues affect Canon. Bottom line, as has been said, don’t use EFCS at shutter speeds faster than 1/500 https://phillipreeve.net/blog/limitations-of-the-electronic-shutter-function/


Thanks! This is helpful!


----------



## Chris.Chapterten (Sep 7, 2020)

I just heard back from a Canon rep about this shutter shock issue and they are going to pass on the feedback to Canon Inc. I suggested a menu option that allows the camera to automatically switch between EFCS and fully mechanical shutter based on shutter speed. Hopefully I am not the only one reporting this so something will be done in the firmware. Fingers crossed.


----------

