# Survey: Preferences on LCD displays on back of DSLR bodies



## ahsanford (Jul 17, 2014)

I started a survey on a 7D2 rumor thread, but thought I'd increase my hits by having a standalone posting.

Head here for my simple and fast survey re: displays on the back of DSLR bodies. I'm trying to segment everyone's take on touch vs. no touch, rigid vs. tilty-swively, etc.

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/TK65Z2Y
(I did this offsite to get more than one question asked with a multiple checkbox response, that's all)

Everyone can participate once, and then repeating the link should show the results. It's interesting so far, but I'd like more responses if you have 90-120 seconds to give. It's fast.

Thanks,
A


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## mackguyver (Jul 17, 2014)

ahsanford said:


> I started a survey on a 7D2 rumor thread, but thought I'd increase my hits by having a standalone posting.
> 
> Head here for my simple and fast survey re: displays on the back of DSLR bodies. I'm trying to segment everyone's take on touch vs. no touch, rigid vs. tilty-swively, etc.
> 
> ...


We need to start calling you survey man! I'm all for a tough version of the articulated LCD - I had one on the 60D and loved it for macro and overhead shots. I hate touchscreens of all varieties, phones included (not that we have a choice), but will concede that the one on the EOS M works well and is faster than the Q button for those random settings.


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## ahsanford (Jul 17, 2014)

mackguyver said:


> We need to start calling you survey man! I'm all for a tough version of the articulated LCD - I had one on the 60D and loved it for macro and overhead shots. I hate touchscreens of all varieties, phones included (not that we have a choice), but will concede that the one on the EOS M works well and is faster than the Q button for those random settings.



I'm just trying to segment the market using the CR Forum dwellers (who are the *only* people who buy cameras of course).

See this posting from that 7D2 thread:

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=21693.msg415241#msg415241

It's possible we have enough of a split on opinion that Canon should consider something like a relatively thin (1 cm?) removable module for the LCD, so people could slap in one of 3-4 different LCD types based on their preference. Think of it like a MF digital back _with just an LCD_. Then people could have whatever they want. We can tweak our focus screens in some cases, so why not get the LCD we want?

I think of body selection as a sensor size first, IQ/AF/DR vs. price second, features are third sort of approach (and everyone's order is different!), etc. but possibly folks desperately need the LCD to be a specific variety or they just won't buy that body. 

So I'm wondering if the market is sufficiently spread out enough to warrant (a) two standalone SKUs -- identical cameras with different LCDs or (b) a modular snap-it-together setup that users can tailor to their needs.

The respondents so far -- even from _this_ forum, a Gear Acquisition Syndrome opium den of mad enthusisasts and pros -- shows a fairly even split in LCD preference. It's far less polarized of a preference than I would have guessed. But let's see, I'd like to get a good 50-100 responses.

- A


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## mackguyver (Jul 17, 2014)

Thanks for the additional detail and with the 1D series, I doubt there's enough volume to produce two different models - hence the 1Ds & 1D line combination. With the 5DIII or especially 6D, it's possible. I'm not sure I'd want a removable LCD as that would drive up price and reduce durability even though it is a cool idea. I dropped my 60D from about 4 feet onto asphalt and the screen survived unscathed, but I still think I'd want one considerably tougher on a 1D, 5D or 7D body. My back & neck would love an articulated LCD for macro work...but I guess the CamRanger is an alternative.


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## tculotta (Jul 17, 2014)

On 2 & 3, there is no option for the fact that my camera simply doesn't have those features. There are things I WOULD like, but I'm not about to buy a new body just for them and the survey doesn't ask me what I want, it asks what I don't want. I respect the intent of the survey, but I think there is value in knowing what people want in a future body (but don't have in their current body/bodies.)

Thanks for putting it together nonetheless.


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## dak723 (Jul 17, 2014)

While I voted for an articulating, touch screen display (why not have the most features and flexibility?) the actual Canon camera that I bought last year was the 6D - which has neither. In other words, the features of the rear display are low priority and played no part in my camera choice.


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## Don Haines (Jul 17, 2014)

I think that what is needed is a touch screen on the back of all new cameras.

Obviously, one should not get rid of the knobs and dials of cameras, but this gives you an additional way to operate the camera (for those so inclined). One should be able to run an App on a phone that gives you the same functionality as the built-in touchscreen, or on a tablet where the increased real estate would give you even more convenience. Yes, tilt/swivel is nice, but removable/remoteable goes so much further....


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 17, 2014)

My old G1X had the swing out type display, similar to the 70D. Mt new G1X MK II has a swing up touch screen that is larger, and much easier to use. Plus, it can be made much larger, since it does not need all the supporting structure. It appears to be much more difficult to damage, I worked in electromechanical design for 35 years, and can pretty well tell as far as reliability of a structural design.

It also looks very water resistant, the flat cable enters the body thru a rubber seal that will resist water entry, and might even be sealed, but I can't tell from the outside.

So far, its a improvement, but long term usage will tell better.


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## dppaskewitz (Jul 17, 2014)

If Canon is listening....................... Touch screen is nice, but there has to be a way to turn it off and on without turning off the camera. I am getting to like the touch screen on the M, but if you leave the camera on and the camera bounces around, all your settings have changed. Articulating: I had one on my G1 (that's the original G1 from circa 2001). Worked fine (even though it is tiny). Probably still works fine. I haven't used that camera in a while. As someone else noted, articulating or not is way down on the priority list in selecting a camera. And if I could only figure out Wifi on the 6D, I could use my phone or my wife's tablet as an articulating screen...........


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## ahsanford (Jul 17, 2014)

tculotta said:


> On 2 & 3, there is no option for the fact that my camera simply doesn't have those features. There are things I WOULD like, but I'm not about to buy a new body just for them and the survey doesn't ask me what I want, it asks what I don't want. I respect the intent of the survey, but I think there is value in knowing what people want in a future body (but don't have in their current body/bodies.)
> 
> Thanks for putting it together nonetheless.



I am familiar with market research in my industry (not cameras), and yes, we'd have 6-8 questions to even 'rangefind' what type of user you are, what you currently use, what you lack today, etc.

So I admit that this is as crude a survey as you get.

- A


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## ahsanford (Jul 17, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> My old G1X had the swing out type display, similar to the 70D. Mt new G1X MK II has a swing up touch screen that is larger, and much easier to use. Plus, it can be made much larger, since it does not need all the supporting structure. It appears to be much more difficult to damage, I worked in electromechanical design for 35 years, and can pretty well tell as far as reliability of a structural design.
> 
> It also looks very water resistant, the flat cable enters the body thru a rubber seal that will resist water entry, and might even be sealed, but I can't tell from the outside.
> 
> So far, its a improvement, but long term usage will tell better.



Anything is possible if you put the time and thought and cost into it. The new Pentax MF rig with the 51 MP sensor is weather sealed and it has a tilty screen. I don't think it swivels, though...

- A


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## ahsanford (Jul 17, 2014)

dppaskewitz said:


> If Canon is listening....................... Touch screen is nice, but there has to be a way to turn it off and on without turning off the camera.



Agree. I am stunned Canon hasn't gone touchscreen on most models (maybe not the T3 or T5) and simply put a 'touchscreen defeat' option in the menu to satisfy both camps. One would think that if we can have a lock screen on a phone, a touch screen could be shut off on a camera.

That _might_ limit the ability of the engineers to optimally make a smudge resistant screen for those who _don't_ want a touchscreen, but that's not my area of expertise -- I defer to the materials guys and consumer electronics designers in this forum (if we have any).

- A


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## Famateur (Jul 17, 2014)

In my opinion, Canon should include touch capability on all future camera LCDs -- with a menu option to disable touch functionality. Then everyone can use it or not use it as they prefer.

I love the articulating screen. Had one on an A80, G12 and now 70D, and I can't imagine life without it. In fact, if/when I move to full frame, that will be what I miss most (unless -- crossing fingers -- Canon introduces a full frame body with articulating touch screen). If I was a pro that was hard on my gear, I _might _choose a fixed display for durability.

The articulating screens on all three of my cameras work like the day they were new, despite some pretty hard use (elk hunting in icy temps, snowboarding in even icier temps -- even dropped in the snow a few times, desert sand dunes with fine sand getting in every crevice, etc.). It would not surprise me if they were durable enough for hard pro use. If not, I don't think it would take much for Canon to "ruggedize" them.

Anyway, I'd want a durable articulating touch screen on any future body I own...


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## StudentOfLight (Jul 17, 2014)

One of the features that I like on the 60D is that I can reverse the articulating screen. I hate getting nose-prints on the screen and with the short eye relief on the consumer and semi-pro bodies, nose-to-screen contact is almost guaranteed.


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## ahsanford (Jul 17, 2014)

Reminder for those who just jump to the end of a thread and add their thoughts, there is an ongoing survey at survey monkey to mine this out very crudely. More responses are welcomed:

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s/TK65Z2Y

Thanks!

- A


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 17, 2014)

dppaskewitz said:


> If Canon is listening....................... Touch screen is nice, but there has to be a way to turn it off and on without turning off the camera. I



Apparently, someone heard you, because on my G1X MK II, I have set the "Display Off" function to the shortcut button by using the custom menu settings. That turns it on/off with a button push.

I can also turn off/on the touch screen function in the settings.


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## dstppy (Jul 17, 2014)

StudentOfLight said:


> One of the features that I like on the 60D is that I can reverse the articulating screen. I hate getting nose-prints on the screen and with the short eye relief on the consumer and semi-pro bodies, nose-to-screen contact is almost guaranteed.



EXACTLY. No screen protector, no screen button,it comes on when you flip it out.


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## dppaskewitz (Jul 17, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> dppaskewitz said:
> 
> 
> > If Canon is listening....................... Touch screen is nice, but there has to be a way to turn it off and on without turning off the camera. I
> ...



Great. Now if Canon would only include such a function for the M via a firmware update......... (I know, I'm dreaming).


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## ahsanford (Jul 18, 2014)

61 responses, everyone, nice work!

https://www.surveymonkey.com/s_thankyou.aspx?sm=Ws7JK%252bcabzvEcxXxJcXkq45j8D7iDKRGz0nakT9q9A0%253d

Thanks for the perspective. We have a pretty healthy split between the four camps. I know we 61 voices are not Canon's market (not remotely), but do you think there's merit in a 'skinny digital back' just for the LCD? 

For those stuck with a style of LCD they do not prefer, would you pay a typical Canon markup price for an add-on like a grip or wireless speedlite transmitter (let's say $300) to have the option to dismount your current LCD 'module' for one with the functionality you prefer? Let's presume is was quick-connect-like and could be changed out in a matter of seconds (like a lens).

Would you own more than one and change them out based on what you are shooting? 

I'm not trying to start a Kickstarter here -- I'm just curious how much value people would see in fundamentally changing their camera body in this way.

- A


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## dppaskewitz (Jul 18, 2014)

ahsanford said:


> For those stuck with a style of LCD they do not prefer, would you pay a typical Canon markup price for an add-on like a grip or wireless speedlite transmitter (let's say $300) to have the option to dismount your current LCD 'module' for one with the functionality you prefer? Let's presume is was quick-connect-like and could be changed out in a matter of seconds (like a lens).
> 
> Would you own more than one and change them out based on what you are shooting?



Never say never, but I doubt I would. Far better for Canon to put an articulating touch screen on all cameras and then let folks articulate and/or touch if they want to or leave face out and not touch if they don't.


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## ahsanford (Jul 18, 2014)

dppaskewitz said:


> ahsanford said:
> 
> 
> > For those stuck with a style of LCD they do not prefer, would you pay a typical Canon markup price for an add-on like a grip or wireless speedlite transmitter (let's say $300) to have the option to dismount your current LCD 'module' for one with the functionality you prefer? Let's presume is was quick-connect-like and could be changed out in a matter of seconds (like a lens).
> ...



Sure, but see page 2 of the survey data. Though leaving it unarticulated addresses some of the fears of robustness, a lot of non-articulating-screen folks might have a weather-sealing hangup if they did that. Even if the screen is left in place, there still are moving bits and mechanism there that a solid (integral) display would not have.

- A


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## 9VIII (Jul 18, 2014)

I went for "articulating touchscreen".
I was going to say standard touchscreen at first, but if people don't want an articulating screen they can just flip it around and leave it that way (It also absolutely eliminates the possibility of light leaking into the body). At home I would probably use a tablet most of the time, but you never know when there's going to be odd shots you want to take away from home, and I can't imagine holding a phone and a camera being the best option when you're trying to take a picture in awkward positions.


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## dgatwood (Jul 19, 2014)

dppaskewitz said:


> If Canon is listening....................... Touch screen is nice, but there has to be a way to turn it off and on without turning off the camera. I am getting to like the touch screen on the M, but if you leave the camera on and the camera bounces around, all your settings have changed.



Did they use a resistive touchscreen or something?


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## dppaskewitz (Jul 19, 2014)

dgatwood said:


> dppaskewitz said:
> 
> 
> > If Canon is listening....................... Touch screen is nice, but there has to be a way to turn it off and on without turning off the camera. I am getting to like the touch screen on the M, but if you leave the camera on and the camera bounces around, all your settings have changed.
> ...



I don't know what type of touchscreen it is. Or what kinds exist. But, so far as I know, there is no way to turn it off on the M. So, if you have the M on and bouncing around as you move, some of the settings will change (and you of course don't know which ones). So I have made it a habit of just turning the camera off between shots when I carry it, but would much prefer being able to leave it on, use the rudimentary controls to take quick shots and then be able to turn the touch on and off quickly to access other settings, etc.

On my cell phone, I use an app called Strava when biking. It uses GPS, etc., to track your route and tell you things like miles traveled, altitude gained, etc. (a nice, free app for those who like to keep track of where they have gone when hiking or biking). Anyway, in a recent update, they added a feature that turns the touch screen off on the phone after the app starts accumulating data. So, no inadvertent entries when you stick your phone in a pocket or whatever while biking. An easy swipe when you are done restarts the touch screen and you are good to go. Seems it wouldn't be hard to add to the M (maybe Magic Lantern has done it already?)

Sorry, not trying to hijack the thread.......................................


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## dgatwood (Jul 19, 2014)

dppaskewitz said:


> dgatwood said:
> 
> 
> > dppaskewitz said:
> ...



Resistive touchscreens respond to pressure. Capacitive touchscreens respond to capacitance, which effectively means that you have to touch them with a finger (or something substantially similar) or else they won't detect the touch. Modern, multi-touch displays are all capacitive. I'm surprised anybody still uses resistive touchscreens these days.


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## al2 (Jul 19, 2014)

For me the problem is the way Canon implements the articulating rear LCD. It allows a great deal of movement, but at a cost of all the buttons on the left side. I personally would rather have the extra buttons.


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## sagittariansrock (Jul 19, 2014)

ahsanford said:


> 61 responses, everyone, nice work!
> 
> https://www.surveymonkey.com/s_thankyou.aspx?sm=Ws7JK%252bcabzvEcxXxJcXkq45j8D7iDKRGz0nakT9q9A0%253d
> 
> ...




I would say there is much more merit to a wired or wireless LCD that can tilt/swivel and offers touch controls, is inexpensive, and can be connected either by hotshoe or has a 1/4-20 female hole. 
When I have tried to use live view without a tripod, the awkward positioning of the camera makes it difficult to maintain stability. Additionally, using touch interface means holding it with one hand. It's okay to navigate through menus, but can you imagine holding a semipro dSLR with a reasonably heavy lens away from your face with one hand, and touching the screen to focus? 
On the other hand, if it could be connected via a flash bracket sort of thing, so you could comfortably grip the camera and yet it stays in front of you, can be taken off if necessary- that would allow a lot of flexibility. And hey, we wouldn't even need to depend on Canon for that.

P.S. Before someone jumps in with "it's already been done"- note WIRED (to reduce lag), TOUCHSCREEN (mimics camera controls), and INEXPENSIVE (so mere mortals can afford it, not just moviemakers).


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