# What does an ST-E3-RT transmitter in a hotshoe do, that a master 600EX-RT can't



## Obaidey (Aug 27, 2012)

Instead of buying a 600EX-RT flash + an ST-E3-RT transmitter, for my 5D Mark III, suppose I buy two 600EX-RT
The master will sit on the hotshoe, and the other will be used as a slave

Question
Apart from the price difference , size and weight penalty, what functions wil be missing from the flash, that I would be getting from a dedicated ST-E3-RT transmitter?

Thanks, and apologies if this was already discussed elsewhere


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## Daniel Flather (Aug 29, 2012)

*Re: What does an ST-E3-RT transmitter in a hotshoe do, that a master EX600-RT can't*

The ST-E3-RT is just that, a 600RT minus the flash head. The only _advantage_ to using a 600RT as a master is to utilize its light output and its AF assist beam.


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## instaimage (Aug 29, 2012)

*Re: What does an ST-E3-RT transmitter in a hotshoe do, that a master EX600-RT can't*

The ST-E3-RT will save you $$ over the 600EX-RT too... but... (and this is coming from someone with six 600EX-RTs and two ST-E3-RT's...) my recommendation would be to get two 600's and one ST-E3 and you'll be able to have a tremendous amount of flexibility. Gone are the transmission issues with optical (thus why a lot of people used a flash unit on camera... so your transmission to the slaves was better...)

I have so many so I can can have multiple setups and not have to worry about line of sight issues with the optical... I shoot outside a lot... been over the moon impressed with the ST-E3 and the 600EXs...


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## vbi (Aug 29, 2012)

*Re: What does an ST-E3-RT transmitter in a hotshoe do, that a master EX600-RT can't*

my recommendation would be to get two 600's and one ST-E3 and you'll be able to have a tremendous amount of flexibility.  

+1. 

Plus you need to remember that the ST-E3 will be better balanced on your camera than a 600.


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## keithfullermusic (Aug 29, 2012)

*Re: What does an ST-E3-RT transmitter in a hotshoe do, that a master EX600-RT can't*

Just get some yn622's. They do ettl, hss, ratios, and pretty much everything else, all done in the camera menu. They also control third party flashes. Even better, $100 for two, and they are all transmitters and receivers.


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## instaimage (Aug 29, 2012)

*Re: What does an ST-E3-RT transmitter in a hotshoe do, that a master EX600-RT can't*



keithfullermusic said:


> Just get some yn622's. They do ettl, hss, ratios, and pretty much everything else, all done in the camera menu. They also control third party flashes. Even better, $100 for two, and they are all transmitters and receivers.



But do they do it via radio or optical? the new RT system is a HUGE benefit...


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## Rienzphotoz (Aug 29, 2012)

*Re: What does an ST-E3-RT transmitter in a hotshoe do, that a master EX600-RT can't*



keithfullermusic said:


> Just get some yn622's. They do ettl, hss, ratios, and pretty much everything else, all done in the camera menu. They also control third party flashes. Even better, $100 for two, and they are all transmitters and receivers.


I have three Yongnuos and four yongnuo radio transmitters ... They are no match to Canon 600EX-RT. Yongnuos are good for hobbyists who don't want to spend a lot of money but when it comes serious photography one has to shell out good money for performance and quality equipment like Canon 600-EX RT
But going back to the original question about ST-E3-RT vs 600EX-RT ... I chose 3 600EX-RTs and skipped the ST-E3-RT ... I think for an extra $200 I got a better unit (600EX-RT) that also has AF assist and it gives me peace of mind that incase something happens to one my 600EX-RTs I still have a good backup.


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## Obaidey (Aug 30, 2012)

*Re: What does an ST-E3-RT transmitter in a hotshoe do, that a master EX600-RT can't*



Daniel Flather said:


> The ST-E3-RT is just that, a 600RT minus the flash head. The only _advantage_ to using a 600RT as a master is to utilize its light output and its AF assist beam.





instaimage said:


> my recommendation would be to get two 600's and one ST-E3 and you'll be able to have a tremendous amount of flexibility.





vbi said:


> +1.
> Plus you need to remember that the ST-E3 will be better balanced on your camera than a 600.


Thanks
Will get two 600s and one ST-E3
So far, the best prices I could find: EX600-RT = £348 and ST-E3-RT = £226


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## Rienzphotoz (Aug 30, 2012)

*Re: What does an ST-E3-RT transmitter in a hotshoe do, that a master EX600-RT can't*



Obaidey said:


> Thanks
> Will get two 600s and one ST-E3
> So far, the best prices I could find: EX600-RT = £348 and ST-E3-RT = £226


Wishing you happy shopping  and may the gear serve you well.


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## Click (Aug 30, 2012)

*Re: What does an ST-E3-RT transmitter in a hotshoe do, that a master EX600-RT can't*

And the distance that you can use the ST-E3-RT is very good. I tested mine, I was able to trigger my flash up to 170 meters.
It's a lot better than Canon is saying in their specs.


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## keithfullermusic (Aug 31, 2012)

*Re: What does an ST-E3-RT transmitter in a hotshoe do, that a master EX600-RT can't*

I'd also like to point out that you can get 3 yn568s (released soon) and four yn622s for about $650. This is full ettl wireless, manual, ratio, mixed mode, hss, built-in bounce cards. In fact the only thing that the yn568s can't do is support a battery pack. Admittedly, for some people this is huge, but for many it's a non-issue.

Now do the math for 3 600exs and the new trigger (which doesn't have an assist beam, and will not support 3rd party flashes, or most canon flashes).

For "pros" who do heavy strobe work, then sure, they might want to get the canons. They will probably last a little longer, and be more reliable, and they can put battery packs in them.

For "pros" who do mild flash work, this is a dream setup. Also, I've heard nothing but good reviews an the yn622s. I know the old yn565s had terrible issues, but that was fixed, and I'd imagine that the 568s will be built to last also.

I have a 560, and unless I need ettl, I use it before my 430exii. It has an optical trigger, is more powerful, has a built in bounce card, and is much quicker to operate because of the smile menu. It hasn't misfired once in over a year of mild use.


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## AdamJ (Sep 3, 2012)

*Re: What does an ST-E3-RT transmitter in a hotshoe do, that a master EX600-RT can't*



Rienzphotoz said:


> I have three Yongnuos and four yongnuo radio transmitters ... They are no match to Canon 600EX-RT. Yongnuos are good for hobbyists who don't want to spend a lot of money but when it comes serious photography one has to shell out good money for performance and quality equipment like Canon 600-EX RT
> But going back to the original question about ST-E3-RT vs 600EX-RT ... I chose 3 600EX-RTs and skipped the ST-E3-RT ... I think for an extra $200 I got a better unit (600EX-RT) that also has AF assist and it gives me peace of mind that incase something happens to one my 600EX-RTs I still have a good backup.



The Yongnuo triggers you have are probably the dumb ones (602, 603). Used with 580EXIIs or 430EXIIs, the new 622s offer equivalent functionality to Canon's RT system. I don't see how they can be dismissed as only for hobbyists when they match or better the radio systems that until six months ago were the systems of choice for pros (PW, Phottix, etc.).


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## Rienzphotoz (Sep 3, 2012)

*Re: What does an ST-E3-RT transmitter in a hotshoe do, that a master EX600-RT can't*



AdamJ said:


> Rienzphotoz said:
> 
> 
> > I have three Yongnuos and four yongnuo radio transmitters ... They are no match to Canon 600EX-RT. Yongnuos are good for hobbyists who don't want to spend a lot of money but when it comes serious photography one has to shell out good money for performance and quality equipment like Canon 600-EX RT
> ...


Nice try assuming ... But I do have 622 triggers and they are no match to Canon's 600EX-RT in power, performance & convenience.
But if your opinion of Yongnuo is that "they are probably dumb" I won't argue with you ;D
I never used the word "only" in my good for hobbyists comment ... so do not twist and add words to my comments.


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## AvTvM (Sep 3, 2012)

Since Canon has come out with their RT system, I will not go third party. 
Simple reason: Canon is and will change software/firmware all the time with every new camery body to come ... and in between. Official reason is to further improve functionality and correct bug, but the main intended effect is to cause compatibility issues for thirdparty manufacturers. Canon does not license any of its technology, so all of the thirdparty vendors are operating on reverse engineering. 

This will bring about ongoing compatibility issues over the entire lifespan of the speedlite-setup that I am simply not prepared to deal with. So I will absolutely stay clear of both cheap Yongnuos as well as expensive PW gear.

I am waiting for Canon to release RT-receivers to radio-enable 580EX IIs and 430EX IIs. And I hope for an improved ST-E3 Mk. II - everything as is, but WITH AF-assist (as on ST-E2). Then I will buy 1x ST-E3 II, 1x 600EX and continue to use my existing 580EX II and 2x 430EX II. 

As long as Canon will not bring RT-receivers for 580/430 ... I will not buy but continue for the time being with optical triggering. As simple as that.


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## Rienzphotoz (Sep 3, 2012)

AvTvM said:


> Since Canon has come out with their RT system, I will not go third party.
> Simple reason: Canon is and will change software/firmware all the time with every new camery body to come ... and in between. Official reason is to further improve functionality and correct bug, but the main intended effect is to cause compatibility issues for thirdparty manufacturers. Canon does not license any of its technology, so all of the thirdparty vendors are operating on reverse engineering.
> 
> This will bring about ongoing compatibility issues over the entire lifespan of the speedlite-setup that I am simply not prepared to deal with. So I will absolutely stay clear of both cheap Yongnuos as well as expensive PW gear.
> ...


I absolutely agree .. on an other thread I posted about a problem I faced with a Sigma 17-50 f2.8 after I upgraded to a new firmware ... On the old firmware the lens was perfect but with the new firmware I had AF issues ... that's when I slowly started selling all my third party lenses nd accessories ... all I have of third party are Sigma 150-500 OS & Yongnuos, they too will eventually go.


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## keithfullermusic (Sep 3, 2012)

Canon sure is good at convincing people that third party equipment will cause the world to explode.


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## AvTvM (Sep 3, 2012)

keithfullermusic said:


> Canon sure is good at convincing people that third party equipment will cause the world to explode.



no it won't explode. But seeing how camera bodies get more and more sophisticated in communicatng with and controlling lenses and flashes I will not take any compatibility risk with unlicensed third party gear made by engineers who have to guess at Canon software protocols. It may work fine for some time ... but it is a liability. 

Heck, even Canon's own new RT gear (600EX, ST-E3) is only fully functional with the three newest 2012 Canon EOS bodies: 1D X, 5D III, 650D. Earlier bodies are compatible but cannot fully control Canon's radio-controlled flashworks via the menu. 

And aside from major compatbility risks, I have yet to see third party gear that really provides the same functionality and quality in all aspects as the equivalent Canon gear. 

But I do agree, that Canon is overcharging on many of its more recent products - like for example the 600EX. And that they are withholding technically posible functionality in many of their products.


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## keithfullermusic (Sep 3, 2012)

Canon's latest stuff only works with their newer stuff for a couple reasons. one is that some of the newer cameras/flashes have technology that older ones don't. more importantly, canon wants to push their newer stuff, so they design it to only work with new items.

with photography equipment there is a huge used market. canon gets none of this money, so they try and make it so you have to buy new.

in the case of these triggers, i'm sure yongnuo looked into all the possibilities about firmware before they started shipping them, so a firmware update isn't something i'm even going to consider worrying about - especially at $50 a trigger.

would i prefer 6 new 600ex's? yeah, of course. but realistically, i'd rather be able to use my current flashes (which canon doesn't fully support), and only spend $100 more and have all the capabilities as the new gear than spend $1,500 on canon's "newer" and "better" versions. living in fear that canon will break compatibility is silly in my opinion, especially if you don't have the money to spend on their latest and greatest. if these things were slightly more than a small fraction of what canon was charging for their stuff, the ok - you have a solid argument. however, they aren't anywhere close.

PS - I'd like to point at that this is just my humble opinion.


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## AvTvM (Sep 3, 2012)

I fully agree with your assessment of Canon's rationale. 



keithfullermusic said:


> living in fear that canon will break compatibility is silly in my opinion, ...


it really depends ... what one currently has ... and what plans for future purchases. 
I am currently using a 7D and know I will be adding a FF camera within the next few months. 

I am looking into radio flash triggering for three reasons:
1. convenience, faster setup of multiple speedlites (no line of sight worries)
2. less limitations in plaing the speedlights (e.g. in light shapers) 
3. improved reliability (greater range, no worries in bright sunlight, no worries about obstacles in line of sight) 
I will not buy into any system that potentially compromises on reliability. I want to be sure, the speedlites fire every single time and they fire with full ETTL functionality - when I need it. 

So the last thing I will do is to buy some thirdparty triggers, go through the learning curve with them only to find out half a year from now, that they wont work or wont work reliably with my next/additional camera body. No matter, how cheap these triggers might be. 

I know how fickle this entire wireless ETTl crap already is (with line of sight) and all Canon gear - e.g. no 2nd curtain sync, only because Canon is still not supporting that on its wireless ETTL protocol. I want full functionality and less hassle, not - potentially - more of it.


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## AdamJ (Sep 4, 2012)

*Re: What does an ST-E3-RT transmitter in a hotshoe do, that a master EX600-RT can't*



Rienzphotoz said:


> AdamJ said:
> 
> 
> > Rienzphotoz said:
> ...



I don't twist people's words. You said the 622s "are good for hobbyists who don't want to spend a lot of money but when it comes serious photography one has to shell out good money for performance and quality equipment like Canon 600-EX RT." Who else are you saying the 622s are good for - non-serious pros? How did I change the meaning of your statement by using the word "only"? ???

In any case, I disagree with you. I think I do "serious photography" and I wouldn't find anything lacking in three 565EXs and four 622s, total cost £402 in the UK. Back-up? Think how many extra units I could buy and still be better off, compared with buying three 600EX-RTs and an ST-E3-RT for £2,046. Futureproofing? Who cares, given the price difference.

Whether intentional or not, your comment struck me as rather condescending to off-brands and those of us who use them as our primary gear.


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## Wick (Sep 28, 2012)

I like the ability to control the speedlites from the camera menu itself. Depending on the camera position this can be a real advantage. 

I was lucky enough to get the STE3 for $309 so it made sense to get that instead of a 600 just to sit on the camera. I use the 600s I manual mode, and I can vary the output power of each right from the camera menu. 

What I have not been able to do (perhaps someone here can help me) is to turn off one of the flashes from the camera.


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## Digirati (Oct 1, 2012)

I've had 3 600's and 1 ST-E3-RT and they've been flawless (started out using a 600 as a trigger).
I was on several shoots a few weeks ago with several versions of Pocket Wizard's and they often didn't fire and, and at one point, stopped working altogether that required shut off of everything and do a reset, and were very undependable overall. The last thing I want in a shoot is to miss the shot due to equipment failure as there are enough variables to fail including shooter/talent.

When a piece of equipment just works and has proven to be perfectly dependable, I'll use it over and over. Yes, I wish it was a little less expensive, but getting the shot pays for itself and for more jobs.


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## Wick (Oct 1, 2012)

I'm hopeful about the rumor of a smaller and less expensive flash unit using the radio system. I have an STE3 and two 600s and can't justify a third one. But something in the $350-$400 range with less output would suit me perfectly.


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