# More Talk of an October Announcement of a DSLR [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 26, 2014)

```
<p>There has been a lot of chatter about the possibility of Canon announcing a high megapixel DSLR some time in October. I have a feeling most of this is rooted in the <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2014/09/a-new-eos-pro-body-with-46mp-next-month-cr1/" target="_blank">FM post from a little ago</a>. We continue to receive emails stating the camera is coming and the camera isn’t coming. So for now, I have nothing that shows an imminent announcement.</p>
<p>If something does come in October, I have a feeling it will be a development announcement or a camera that won’t ship for a long while. There seems to be a growing concern that people are tired of waiting for Canon to release a high resolution camera. It’s also suggested there’s a growing number of Canon shooters that are buying Nikon and Sony cameras to meet their needs.</p>
<p>Our specifications for the EOS 7D Mark II came about three weeks prior to the launch, so if there is indeed a camera coming in October, there should be better information soon (Unless it’s a development announcement).</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


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## SoullessPolack (Sep 26, 2014)

To all the people threatening to jump from Canon to Sony/Nikon...

When you bought your Canon camera, it was obviously because you needed/wanted its performance. It was good enough. Now suddenly it's not good enough? Did it deteriorate in quality? You bought a camera because its performance was what sought, and now its performance (which is the exact same as when you bought it) is not good enough? Y'all make me laugh. Hah.


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## Jupiter (Sep 26, 2014)

SoullessPolack said:


> To all the people threatening to jump from Canon to Sony/Nikon...
> 
> When you bought your Canon camera, it was obviously because you needed/wanted its performance. It was good enough. Now suddenly it's not good enough? Did it deteriorate in quality? You bought a camera because its performance was what sought, and now its performance (which is the exact same as when you bought it) is not good enough? Y'all make me laugh. Hah.




Have you ever bought a new TV or a new Computer?
You still have a CRT monitor, not a TFT?
You still own your first canon camera?

Do you buy a worse product because of a brand name?

"Better" is the enemy of "good enough".


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## Maiaibing (Sep 26, 2014)

Canon Rumors said:


> <p>Our specifications for the EOS 7D Mark II came about three weeks prior to the launch, so if there is indeed a camera coming in October, there should be better information soon (Unless it’s a development announcement).</p>



5DIII the 7DII did not offer any "exciting" new technologies or features - so the time from announcement to release was only weeks. 

Unlike the ground breaking 5D and 5DII were the announcement was months in advance. So it could be a "teaser" during the next months for something (big) early next year.


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## Atonegro (Sep 26, 2014)

Jupiter said:


> SoullessPolack said:
> 
> 
> > To all the people threatening to jump from Canon to Sony/Nikon...
> ...



+1

You clearly do not what you are talking about, it is not about good enough, it is about progress.
My first digital camera was a DCS 3c from Kodak/Canon, it cost as much as a small truck but I am not using it anymore, but it is as good as it was then.
And it is (apart from my MF-camera's) my most expensive camera....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canon_EOS_DCS_3

Canon is far behind in studio / landscape camera's, and so I bought a Nikon.
Canon does not realise that not everyone is a sport-shooter.


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## quod (Sep 26, 2014)

SoullessPolack said:


> To all the people threatening to jump from Canon to Sony/Nikon...
> When you bought your Canon camera, it was obviously because you needed/wanted its performance. It was good enough.


False assumption. I needed/wanted a camera and I didn't know the features I would want from a camera when I bought my 60D. I do now. My 60D was not good enough: I did not need or want the noise its sensor created nor the clipping in high-contrast shots. I bought a 5D3 because I was invested in glass. It is "good enough" in the sense that I wanted to take photos above 800 ISO and not be grossly disappointed in the image quality. I want better. I have only held on to Canon because I like the glass. That is the ONLY reason.


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## The Flasher (Sep 26, 2014)

SoullessPolack said:


> To all the people threatening to jump from Canon to Sony/Nikon...
> 
> When you bought your Canon camera, it was obviously because you needed/wanted its performance. It was good enough. Now suddenly it's not good enough? Did it deteriorate in quality? You bought a camera because its performance was what sought, and now its performance (which is the exact same as when you bought it) is not good enough? Y'all make me laugh. Hah.



Sounds like you work for Canon, with that mentality.. 

Shot a job with a rented (borrowed) 810. Now, going forward, I expect nothing short of that kind of image quality from Canon in the he very near future.


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## tcmatthews (Sep 26, 2014)

SoullessPolack said:


> To all the people threatening to jump from Canon to Sony/Nikon...
> 
> When you bought your Canon camera, it was obviously because you needed/wanted its performance. It was good enough. Now suddenly it's not good enough? Did it deteriorate in quality? You bought a camera because its performance was what sought, and now its performance (which is the exact same as when you bought it) is not good enough? Y'all make me laugh. Hah.



Not thinking about it I jumped to Sony mirror-less when the EOS M was announced. Bought a meta-bones adapter. 

When I bought into the Canon system I did it for the lenses. After researching both Canon and Nikon, Canon was the clear winner for my main photography interests. At the time the sensors quality was basically the same. For the lens I was interested in Canon had better and cheaper options. So I bought the cheapest Rebel out at the time and started building up my lenses. The primary goal was to go full frame and enjoy taking pictures at the same time. 

For macro and wildlife Canon makes allot of sense. That was what drew me to Canon. But I take pictures of everything else as well. I was happy for a while.

When the EOS M was announced I was seriously pissed off. I wanted, needed a new camera my 60D had recently taken a bath as was trashed. I was looking for a good mirrorless and a possible camera to hold me over until the 70D was released. Without a view finder it would not meet either of those needs. So I ordered another 60D. Then ordered a Nex 5N for my parents but planed on taking it for a test drive. 

I was very impressed with the Nex 5N image quality so I pre-ordered a NEX 6. 

Then a funny thing then happened. All of a sudden I could not stand looking at the 60D files with anything over ISO 800. The truth is even ISO 400 is quite bad compered to a NEX 6 at ISO 400. I was never quite satisfied by high ISO performance but the difference was eye opening.

So no the performance of the Camera did not degrade my expectations changed. 

I am very happy with the high ISO performance of my Canon 6D. But at low ISO a Nex 6 is nearly as good. 

Canon needs to do two thing, release a high MP camera and improve ISO their crop camera offings. The 7D II may improve the ISO performance. I am with holding judgement. 

The truth is I am more likely to buy a Sony Alpha 7r successor then a high MP 1D series or 5D series camera because of cost and physical size. Quite frankly I would have bought a 7r already if it had a first curtain electronic shutter.

I am not satisfied by the rate of Canon's sensor improvement. The way I see it the 70D II was a year late. The 7D II is two years late. A high MP camera is 3 years late. 

Every year my expectations for what a camera should do increase. And every year Canon falls further and further behind. 

But unless Nikon changes its ergonomics and there lenses get cheaper I will continue using my Canon cameras for wildlife and macro. But for my general photography needs I may buy into the full frame E mount and a Alpha 7.


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## dstppy (Sep 26, 2014)

oh HECK no.

This is supposed to be year of the lens.

If they release a second body, well, I'm moving to Nikon.

------

Besides, what will DxO say? You know it's gonna stink! Booo canon :


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## takesome1 (Sep 26, 2014)

SoullessPolack said:


> To all the people threatening to jump from Canon to Sony/Nikon...
> 
> When you bought your Canon camera, it was obviously because you needed/wanted its performance. It was good enough. Now suddenly it's not good enough? Did it deteriorate in quality? You bought a camera because its performance was what sought, and now its performance (which is the exact same as when you bought it) is not good enough? Y'all make me laugh. Hah.



Did you type this on your IBM XT 286 or have you upgraded yet?


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## KBStudio (Sep 26, 2014)

Been shooting for 35 years professionally. Made the jump to digital early, Leaf DCB-1 Have gradually worked our way through many MF backs to shooting almost entirely with 5D Mark IIIs. Sold all our MF cameras and backs. Wasn't until Sony introduced their line of high end high resolution chips did I consider the cost of moving back to Nikon, in terms of glass, after our early attempt to use their DX1, or whatever they called that junk. Then along comes a Metabones. A weak solution but a solution none the less for using my Canon glass on a high end chip. So I bought the Sony A7r and except for the Metabones weak link, have been very happy with the results. I gave up on Canon coming out with a high end or at least closer to any of the Sony chips. Thought the 7D MII would at least be a bigger jump in IQ, nope. So, I am now sure my decision was correct. Canon has not really felt it necessary to improve IQ dramatically, just baby steps. But if the future is all work being viewed on a mobile device, maybe they are right. Functionality is more important than IQ.


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## jaayres20 (Sep 26, 2014)

This is so funny to read. I have a 5D3 and a 1DX and there isn't a Nikon wedding photographer out there that has better IQ in their images. This all over a little DR in low ISOs. I have printed off prints from my 1DX that are 50 inches and they look great. What if Canon comes out with this high MP camera and much improved DR, is everyone going to come rushing back to Canon? All of this because of DR and more MPs so you can print billboards or corop down half of you picture. The D810 has been out for how long now?


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## blackbox (Sep 26, 2014)

jaayres20 said:


> This is so funny to read. I have a 5D3 and a 1DX and there isn't a Nikon wedding photographer out there that has better IQ in their images. This all over a little DR in low ISOs. I have printed off prints from my 1DX that are 50 inches and they look great. What if Canon comes out with this high MP camera and much improved DR, is everyone going to come rushing back to Canon? All of this because of DR and more MPs so you can print billboards or corop down half of you picture. The D810 has been out for how long now?



Let's just say that you were entering the wedding photography scene today. Which system would you buy, Canon or Nikon?

It sounds like you're admitting that there is a slight difference?? The problem is that this noticeable IQ gap just continues to widen and Canon is either unable or unwilling to try and catch up. Wedding photography is just one application to photography. I'm a photojournalist and DR and ISO are crucial to my work. 

People like myself are tired of waiting for that "what if Canon comes out with a high MP camera and much improved DR" question to materialize. A 1.6 crop factor 7D MII is Canon's big announcement of the year?? Really? It seems that Canon have forgotten their professional market. If I could get a decent price for my Canon gear, I would sell it and make the jump to Nikon today.


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## Etienne (Sep 26, 2014)

blackbox said:


> jaayres20 said:
> 
> 
> > This is so funny to read. I have a 5D3 and a 1DX and there isn't a Nikon wedding photographer out there that has better IQ in their images. This all over a little DR in low ISOs. I have printed off prints from my 1DX that are 50 inches and they look great. What if Canon comes out with this high MP camera and much improved DR, is everyone going to come rushing back to Canon? All of this because of DR and more MPs so you can print billboards or corop down half of you picture. The D810 has been out for how long now?
> ...



That's the first time I've heard of a photojournalist concerned about DR. They are usually concerned with ruggedness, high speed, fast accurate AF, high ISO performance (even when DR is reduced to about 8 stops), awesome zoom lenses. Canon DSLR's have taken most of the award-winning photojournalism shots for quite some time, and in fact a great many of the award-winning shots were taken with the 5D3 16-35 f/2.8 mkII combo. Even with the availability of the D800. The DR advantage of the D800 is only in the Low ISO region. The Canon systems are still the most popular among photojournalists, who often grab video as well as photos.


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## Steve (Sep 26, 2014)

jaayres20 said:


> This is so funny to read. I have a 5D3 and a 1DX and there isn't a Nikon wedding photographer out there that has better IQ in their images. This all over a little DR in low ISOs. I have printed off prints from my 1DX that are 50 inches and they look great.



You can't judge the tool simply by the finished product. You can't see AF performance in a finished picture but it sure makes the photography easier, yes? More keepers, right? Similarly, having more DR and shadow latitude means more keepers and less post work. It makes the work easier. Its a better tool.


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## DHanson (Sep 26, 2014)

tcmatthews said:


> SoullessPolack said:
> 
> 
> > To all the people threatening to jump from Canon to Sony/Nikon...
> ...



I own an A7r and I think it's a miserable camera. The ergonomics and control layout are miserable, the shutter is about the loudest thing I have ever heard (I'd say louder than my 1Dx) and Sony's user interface just plain sucks..... Plus there are currently only a few lenses available for it. I'd rent or borrow one and use it before jumping ship!


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## 9VIII (Sep 26, 2014)

Jupiter said:


> You still have a CRT monitor, not a TFT?



Ohhh, wrong analogy to use there.

Yes, yes I do.

CRT has the least lag, best contrast and best viewing angles of any display technology available.

All your LCD panels were bought exclusively to give you more desk space, that is the only benefit. They also save power but I doubt anyone really cares about that.


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## Diko (Sep 26, 2014)

tcmatthews said:


> I am not satisfied by the rate of Canon's sensor improvement. The way I see it the 70D II was a year late. The 7D II is two years late. A high MP camera is 3 years late.
> 
> Every year my expectations for what a camera should do increase. And every year Canon falls further and further behind.



Couldn't have said it better. Me already considers a Sony 7s as well :-((((

The baby steps someone already mentioned here in comparison to others are really easily ignored. I guess the next 1Dx will give: 
* - 120 all cross points AF 
* - 3 double crossed in the center
* - A third generation of DUAL AF
* - finally 400k ISO
* - probably 4K @ 30 FPS just because it's their flagship DSLR
* - probably 28 MP or 24... who knows... :-(
* - Dual 6+ DIGICs + could be with another 5+ regular for focusing...

Make some shortened/crippled version of the above. and just swap the MPs for some 40 (and above) MPs. Put all that in another FASHION/STUDIO oriented body. And there you go... Again flagship divided in two bodies... :-(

Now having in mind that NIKON is ALSO falling down with no other but the same baby steps recently. I don't expect anything big.

What both can do is to come out with some MF body in 1 or 2 years. 

Actually what I really believe is that the new CANON rumored mount is either:

1/ improved EF for video AF servo
2/ MF mount!!!

I am pretty sure since in the last year all the time there are rumors about a big MP, that it should come before September 2015. However is this good enough among such strong competition?

Now since in high PRO we have even most probably SONY any time soon (they are the only one missing from the whole MF DSLR story, aside from NIKON and CANON). Having in mind that they are the FIRST VENDOR of MF CMOS - they sold it quite well to almost everyone pushing aside CANON and NIKON from the leadership.

And I know that John (Jrista) will explain how they are the current leaders we have to face the fact that it is only due to the totaly amatuer segment of the market.

And as long as it is profitable their status quo would be eminent. However here comes the MILC age.... what then?


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## transpo1 (Sep 26, 2014)

*--> Video perspective --> Re: More Talk of an October Announcement of DSLR [CR1]*

Yes, I know this entry is talking about a camera for stills, but chiming in from a video perspective here -- 

I love my Canon 5DIII for video but am (with no malice or bias) about to buy a Sony A7S body, as it's 4K capable with 14 stops of dynamic range and high ISO for filmmaking purposes, and using it with Canon glass.

I know we're discussing a high megapixel body for stills, but if the powers that be at Canon are listening, it's worth noting, that, from a video perspective, Canon is about to begin losing people. 

I'll still keep my 5DIII body with soft spot in my heart, but Canon needs to start listening, to both the photography and video DSLR shooters, lest they lose some.

Yes, it's hard to hear, we love you Canon, but you need to shake things up and be bold.


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## jaayres20 (Sep 26, 2014)

blackbox said:


> jaayres20 said:
> 
> 
> > This is so funny to read. I have a 5D3 and a 1DX and there isn't a Nikon wedding photographer out there that has better IQ in their images. This all over a little DR in low ISOs. I have printed off prints from my 1DX that are 50 inches and they look great. What if Canon comes out with this high MP camera and much improved DR, is everyone going to come rushing back to Canon? All of this because of DR and more MPs so you can print billboards or corop down half of you picture. The D810 has been out for how long now?
> ...



Well I have over 25 grand in gear so that is hard to ever ponder. If I had to start over I would choose Canon. I have had several Nikon second shooters so I have seen hundreds of their raw files. The only thing I can give Nikon is low ISO DR. It is much easier to recover the blown out highlights in a wedding dress for an over exposed image. But of the 1000s of pictures I take a year I can only come up with a few times I would need that extra DR. At ISO 1600 or above (where most of the wedding is shot) there is no DR advantage. High ISO is a tie, Canon has much better colors (I much prefer the skin tones from Canon), and Canon has better AF.

Canon also has great perfesional services and there are more lens options, better lenses and better availability. You say wedding photography is only one aspect of photography but it covers just about everything. Macro, arcitexture & Landscape, fashion and portraits, studio, action, and especially photojournalim in very tricky low light. Weddings really push a cameras capabilities. 

So why would I change to Nikon for a little low ISO DR that I rarlely need? And for photojurnalist like yourself you are at high ISOs which doesn't have any DR advantage. Also why do you need more MPs for photojurnalism?


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## Steve (Sep 26, 2014)

9VIII said:


> CRT has the least lag, best contrast and best viewing angles of any display technology available.
> 
> All your LCD panels were bought exclusively to give you more desk space, that is the only benefit. They also save power but I doubt anyone really cares about that.



No. Really, just...no. None of that has been true for a long while. 70 kilos of flickering eye cancer is not an advantage.


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## raptor3x (Sep 27, 2014)

tcmatthews said:


> Then a funny thing then happened. All of a sudden I could not stand looking at the 60D files with anything over ISO 800. The truth is even ISO 400 is quite bad compered to a NEX 6 at ISO 400. I was never quite satisfied by high ISO performance but the difference was eye opening.



Huh? Even at ISO 6400 there's almost no difference between the two. If anything, the 60D is a bit better once it's downsampled to the same resolution.


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## TeT (Sep 27, 2014)

dilbert said:


> So?



Really; thats what you got? So; followed up with mindless chatter...


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## TeT (Sep 27, 2014)

raptor3x said:


> tcmatthews said:
> 
> 
> > Then a funny thing then happened. All of a sudden I could not stand looking at the 60D files with anything over ISO 800. The truth is even ISO 400 is quite bad compered to a NEX 6 at ISO 400. I was never quite satisfied by high ISO performance but the difference was eye opening.
> ...



There is a bit of difference between the 2 pics. 

that said, the NEX 6 was released 2 years ago (?) and the 60D when? Lots has happened with noise since then...


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## Bennymiata (Sep 27, 2014)

I can't believe how much you guys whinge and whine on about your Canon cameras.

My 5D3 is a fantastic camera and even after using various Nikons over the years, I would not buy one.
Not one of my customers has EVER complained about a lack of DR or too much noise.
Like some others here, I do a lot of different types of professional photography including shots of large equipment deep in the bowels of building sites, weddings, products, events, real estate etc., and in my 50 years of photography, I've never had such a capable camera that takes such gorgeous images.
Sure, I'd like more DR and less high ISO noise but the fantastic all around capabilities of the 5D3 more than make up for some small particular deficiencies compared to a Nikon D810.


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## Perio (Sep 27, 2014)

For me, 1D series has the best, most convenient grip in the world. I truly enjoy holding this camera, and even with 200 2.0 it feels light. I don't care about Nikon/Sony etc with their gigapixel cameras. I don't look at my images with the loupe.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 27, 2014)

I no longer believe the guy who started this rumor has any inside info at all for a certain reason, but in addition to that reason, someone else just noticed that he has predicted a new camera a few weeks before each show and before each date that has been used in the past. As someone said, his high MP cam is bound to eventually appear at show show or typical announcement date. If people forget all the false predictions and just remember the big deal about when he was correct, then he is psychic in the exact way that every other psychic does the trick .


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## TeT (Sep 27, 2014)

There was the testing being done late summer on a 1D body with prototype workings inside... That was confirmed... (I believe)


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## ScottyP (Sep 27, 2014)

Everyone: look at the original post on FM. There's nothing much there. Just some guy makes a statement in a thread saying there's going to be a new big MP body. Then about 20 people on FM started going back and forth on it, and then people here on CR are doing the same thing. 

Go back to the beginning post on FM. Read it. There is nothing much there.


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## KitsVancouver (Sep 27, 2014)

SoullessPolack said:


> To all the people threatening to jump from Canon to Sony/Nikon...
> 
> When you bought your Canon camera, it was obviously because you needed/wanted its performance. It was good enough. Now suddenly it's not good enough? Did it deteriorate in quality? You bought a camera because its performance was what sought, and now its performance (which is the exact same as when you bought it) is not good enough? Y'all make me laugh. Hah.


What makes me laugh is the fact that you are participating in a forum called, "Canon Rumors Forum". You don't care about new cameras, but you take the time to post and read? That seems so contradictory to me. 

Technology is all about progress and relative performance. If your logic made any sense at all, we would all be using film cameras or maybe even just painting everything we see with inks from berries.


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## jrista (Sep 27, 2014)

TeT said:


> There was the testing being done late summer on a 1D body with prototype workings inside... That was confirmed... (I believe)



I wouldn't doubt that there is testing being done on prototypes. That can take a while to really get a camera fully tested (especially the way Canon does it.) I think there were rumors about the 5D III and 1D X being out in the field about a year before their announcements.


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## blackbox (Sep 27, 2014)

Etienne said:


> blackbox said:
> 
> 
> > jaayres20 said:
> ...




Wow, it's amazing how much people can learn from listening to others. Good to hear you're listening though. Mark II? what a surprise. That sounds like the same time Canon started to lag behind. And many pjs I know are in my position and don't feel like switching glass.

Again, which would you buy today, Canon or Nikon? What fool wouldn't want better IQ? (I did mention ISO above) Of what you mentioned above, in which area is Nikon lacking? 

And as a pj and knowing probably more of them than you, of course DR matters. 

Oh, and just in case you didn't know, Nikon does have a D800E now


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## blackbox (Sep 27, 2014)

I am not satisfied by the rate of Canon's sensor improvement. The way I see it the 70D II was a year late. The 7D II is two years late. A high MP camera is 3 years late. 

Every year my expectations for what a camera should do increase. And every year Canon falls further and further behind. 


+1


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## whothafunk (Sep 27, 2014)

jrista said:


> and not think that it has something to do, at least partly, with differences in camera technology (particularly at the high end.) ..... It's just difficult to think the market share shift is entirely unrelated to the differences in sensor technology.


The reason why Nikon's sales went up compared to Canon (in the High end part) is because they release their s.h.i.t. every 6 months (with incremental improvements - D600/D610, D800e/D810, D4/D4s), and people jump for the new stuff. 

If Canon released a new 1D and a new 5D body in, let's say 8 months time difference, Nikon would probably lose sales on all ends except for D810.


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## donsullivan (Sep 27, 2014)

As a 12 year Canon DSLR shooter and someone whose shooting style has changed over the last few years, I'm kind of tired of waiting for Canon. When I bought my 5D3 in the launch month, it was fantastic and I was very happy with it. It was a nice evolutionary step up from my 5D2. It also had a great focusing system that worked for the airshow stuff I like to do in the spring and fall. For some of the subjects I shoot today it's still a great choice.

However over the last almost 3 years, the subjects I shoot most often have changed and my shooting style has evolved. I'm doing a lot more natural landscape and architectural exterior stuff now and Canon has simply not kept up with those new requirements. As I look at my evolving needs for high dynamic range and detail, Canon does not make a camera body that fills those needs; they have ceded that market to competitors.

Last spring I was ready to dump all my Canon gear and switch over to a Nikon D610 & D800e and then I saw the option with the Sony a7R. It gave me the same sensor performance the Nikon D800e would offer but also allowed me to keep using my Canon glass investment which I'm extremely happy with. It's certainly rigged up a little with the Metabones adapter but it created a 'bridge' for me for one more year in hopes that Canon would finally start paying attention to that segment of the market and deliver something interesting. On my last 3 dedicated photography trips including one last weekend to Montana, the Canon never got a single click on the shutter- every shot was taken with the Sony with Canon glass on it.

However, I'm not happy with this Franken-Camera model and won't stay with it much longer. I love the image quality I get out of the Sony when it's dropped on a tripod, but it's just not a practical choice for much handheld. It's also way too slow at absolutely everything it does so it's going to have to go. If the subject is moving, it's terrible.

If by spring of next year, Canon has not delivered a viable competitive solution I'll be jumping platforms and have one hell of an epic eBay auction. They have just ceded that part of the market to competitors and have given no indications that they care about that space. 

The key word above is 'delivered' not just talked about something they are thinking about. I won't be prepared to play a stalling game to drag it out even further. If they have not shipped something competitive with a D810 or similar on both features and price I'll likely jumping ship.


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## SiliconVoid (Sep 27, 2014)

This pathetic whining is really getting boring..
Years ago everyone was happy with 21.x mp because it serves 99% of all photography, and for a disturbing percentage it was more mp than Nikon offered. Then Nikon came out with the D3X and that same percentage said 'meh' 3mp isn't any big deal, my camera still does everything I need it to do.. and is about 5x above their capabilities anyway.. The sun rose and set, the moon shined bright, and everything was peaches&cream..
Then years later Nikon releases 36mp and the four horsemen can be seen in the sky!! All the sudden the camera you have been producing incredible images with is all the sudden a piece of crap that no one can even rationalize why they bought it to begin with... 
The 'need' for more mp is more about your ego than your print.

Their are those that will now try to redirect their peni.. er, mp envy by claiming DR and IQ and blah and blah. The irony is that the differences in the components contributing to IQ are not actually higher in the Nikon bodies, and even in some perfect scenario where one aspect is higher (like that whopping ~1 stop of DR in the shadows you can't even see) it only exists in one or two sensitivity settings, and no other component of IQ is higher. DR doesn't make the image nor does it create IQ by itself. For example take any D8xx image you think is the absolute representation of IQ and in your editing software take it down to 16bit color, now how great is it...?

So the little pixel packers are left to pointing out the superior IQ as scored by DxO, however that is all they want to see, the SCORE and RANKING, without actually looking at what the supposedly superior sensor is really doing. Give you another example, open your LR or similar software and organize all the thousands of images you have by ISO.. I will wager that the highest percentage of them are above 400 ISO. Why is that relevant? Because by ISO ~500 the D8xx does worse than just about every upper end body out. In all areas of IQ (DR, SNR, Tone, Color).. and even at the two ISO settings where the D8xx shows higher DR it is a) less than what can be perceived (as stated by DxO - +-1 not noticeable) and b) at those settings it performs worse in the other components of IQ.. that is a wash folks, the only thing it then offers is more mp to bolster your ego.

The solution is stop buying every new model that comes out because you were duped by marketing and fanboy sites that you have to have the latest model on the market. That will cause the manufacturers to stop releasing these bullshit updates and put out a body that you don't need to upgrade. Then you will have more to spend on lenses, which will have more impact on how your images look than anything else you could possibly do.. short of a photography course, and heck if your aren't wasting your money on versions xx of what you already have you could get both..


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## Diko (Sep 27, 2014)

Diko said:


> tcmatthews said:
> 
> 
> > I am not satisfied by the rate of Canon's sensor improvement. The way I see it the 70D II was a year late. The 7D II is two years late. A high MP camera is 3 years late.
> ...




Here it is: *THE CAT IS OUT!*

_According to latest rumors Canon is expected to announce a High Resolution DSLR in October 2015, so there are two possibility
#1. Canon may also do a development announcement of new product in October or
#2. If a new product is announced then it won’t ship for a long while, however Canon fans are now tired of waiting for Canon Megapixel Monster and as per unconfirmed reports a huge number of Canon crowed already moved to purchase Sony A7R and Nikon D8XX series….Stay with us more coming_



SiliconVoid said:


> This pathetic whining is really getting boring..


 Yep and your comments aren't any fun either ;-)
I am awaiting a NEW body that deserves my money aimed for an upgrade


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## alpraphoto (Sep 27, 2014)

I'd like to add my desperate voice to those calling for a high MP camera. As a professional working in design and advertising, and also operating as an artist making large format prints...it DOES matter! I invested heavily in canon gear and feel utterly let down by their failure to produce an update for my 1DS Mk3 and 5D2. Like others here I would swap manufacturer if I could afford to. And if this current rumour proves to be false, I will probably have to do so anyway. It's getting too embarrassing that I have clients with smartphones that have more MP than my 'professional' cameras. And I find it ridiculous when people say MPs don't matter. When I can print at 360 rather than 240 (or 240 rather than 180 for that matter) it makes an enormous difference; if I'm shooting a close-up and struggling for depth of field, so have to shoot looser and crop afterwards, the pixels matter! When I started in photography as an assistant we shot 10x8 film rather than 5x4 because the tones were smoother, the reduced enlargement meant better colour etc etc; and it matters just as much now as it did back then. I'd buy phase one if I could afford to, but my business turnover is limited by all the millions of other photographers who have flooded the market because anyone can now claim to be a professional with an online folio of well-edited snaps and a few clients who don't realise the difference between web-suitable resolution and print-suitable. Ok, so I'm a dinosaur and maybe Canon doesn't care what I think, I'm not the future after all. But I do win awards, put on exhibitions, teach occasional workshops, speak at events and have an international profile. When I switch to Nikon, I'm going to be letting alot of people know.


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## Maiaibing (Sep 27, 2014)

SiliconVoid said:


> The 'need' for more mp is more about your ego than your print.



People are not whining nor are they crazy. Your lack of understanding that others may have photographic needs other than your own is the only egoistical claim here.

1) Canon makes a very wide range of DSLR - is that because Canon thinks everyone has the same needs?
2) Every day some people choose to buy into other systems than Canon's - is that because they do not understand their own needs?
3) So a Canon owner one day sees a camera body that serves her/his needs better than what Canon currently offers - that person should not call for Canon to match that specific feature so the customer can fulfill her/his photographic ambitions better?

People match their needs with what they can get. Day by day. The day Canon launched the 5D the Nikon crowd demanded a FF camera. The day Canon launched the 5DII the Nikon crowd demanded a film-capable Nikon DSLR. 

As someone who often has to crop _a lot _my wish for more mp is extremely relevant to the kind of results I can produce for my customers. I was beginning to regret that I did not get a D800 when it launched. However, now I can at least hope that Canon in the "near future" will deliver the MP the competition delivers to new customers every single day. 

Now why this offends you is beyond me. I did notice that you are no longer shooting a 3 MP camera - did you ever ask your self why?

Move on. Enjoy what you have. I'm getting a high MP camera body in the near future - one way or the other.


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## KBStudio (Sep 27, 2014)

donsullivan said:


> As a 12 year Canon DSLR shooter and someone whose shooting style has changed over the last few years, I'm kind of tired of waiting for Canon. When I bought my 5D3 in the launch month, it was fantastic and I was very happy with it. It was a nice evolutionary step up from my 5D2. It also had a great focusing system that worked for the airshow stuff I like to do in the spring and fall. For some of the subjects I shoot today it's still a great choice.
> 
> However over the last almost 3 years, the subjects I shoot most often have changed and my shooting style has evolved. I'm doing a lot more natural landscape and architectural exterior stuff now and Canon has simply not kept up with those new requirements. As I look at my evolving needs for high dynamic range and detail, Canon does not make a camera body that fills those needs; they have ceded that market to competitors.
> 
> ...



A mirror of my experience and a summation of my future intent!

Canon are you listening?


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## skoobey (Sep 27, 2014)

SoullessPolack said:


> To all the people threatening to jump from Canon to Sony/Nikon...
> 
> When you bought your Canon camera, it was obviously because you needed/wanted its performance. It was good enough. Now suddenly it's not good enough? Did it deteriorate in quality? You bought a camera because its performance was what sought, and now its performance (which is the exact same as when you bought it) is not good enough? Y'all make me laugh. Hah.





Absolutely. But remember, most of these users are not professionals. Just like most Ferrari drivers aren't professional race drivers. So, some guys buy their F50 and love it to this day, maybe they buy a new model, maybe they don't, but only when they feel the need for it, emotion for it, whatever, you it fits them for some reason. Enthusiasts, on the other hand, love everything new. This is why you can see Vogue's Anna Wintour wearing 5, or more, seasons old shoes and looking and feeling fabulous, while a fashionista would be embarrassed to the same.

All about perspective. Nothing wrong with either, and as long as it makes you feel good, why not do it.


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## Maiaibing (Sep 27, 2014)

dilbert said:


> You got something wrong here. Nikon's D90 (27-08-2008) was the first DSLR that did video, Canon's 5DII (17-09-2008) was the second.



I am sure 99% of readers here at CR understood exactly what I wanted to say without going into details. But just for you then:

When Canon brought out the 5DII as the first truly capable video DSLR that changed digital film making with the ability to record 1080p video and to shoot at low light the Nikon crowd went wild.

&

When Canon brought out the 5D and offered the first truly affordable FF DSLR the Nikon crowd went wild.

There...


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 27, 2014)

SiliconVoid said:


> This pathetic whining is really getting boring..
> Years ago everyone was happy with 21.x mp because it serves 99% of all photography, and for a disturbing percentage it was more mp than Nikon offered.



One thing you are forgetting about is reach. More MP makes a FF cam better for shooting stuff like wildlife when you can't get close enough (which is often even with big lenses).





> Their are those that will now try to redirect their peni.. er, mp envy by claiming DR and IQ and blah and blah.



Or maybe they just saw stuff in their photos and were like wow less banding and more flat out DR would have been helpful here.




> (like that whopping ~1 stop of DR in the shadows you can't even see)



Make that 2 or 3 stops which can be seen. (and yet when Canon does better at high ISO it's more like by 1/3 of a stop, but then that is a HUGE deal)




> it only exists in one or two sensitivity settings, and no other component of IQ is higher.



So?

(technically the difference is pretty noticeable through ISO400 and a bit into ISO800, although the super big difference is at ISO100 and 200, with 400 being decent but quite as huge)




> DR doesn't make the image



who said it did?



> For example take any D8xx image you think is the absolute representation of IQ and in your editing software take it down to 16bit color, now how great is it...?



???



> So the little pixel packers are left to pointing out the superior IQ as scored by DxO, however that is all they want to see, the SCORE and RANKING, without actually looking at what the supposedly superior sensor is really doing.



completely false and people started talking about it before DxO and especially before DxO became well known



> Give you another example, open your LR or similar software and organize all the thousands of images you have by ISO.. I will wager that the highest percentage of them are above 400 ISO. Why is that relevant? Because by ISO ~500 the D8xx does worse than just about every upper end body out. In all areas of IQ (DR, SNR, Tone, Color)..



It's not remotely true that the D800 is just about the worst of the high end bodies at ISO500 and above! Even at ISO6400 it's only a little behind the 5D3. Funny how that little difference is HUGE, but 3 stops at ISO100 is nothing. Maybe not everyone cares about ISO100-400 DR, fair enough, but you don't need to start making stuff up.






> and b) at those settings it performs worse in the other components of IQ.. that is a wash folks,



It performs worse at all other aspects at low ISO? really? so a better color filter and more MP make the images worse?



> the only thing it then offers is more mp to bolster your ego.



you are the one who seems to be caught up with ego, you can't dare admit that the camera you use is not the best at even one little thing in any even remotely potentially ever significant way

maybe some people want more MP so they can get more detail on distance wildlife? or for various other reasons that are legit


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## clicstudio (Sep 27, 2014)

*Canon is just like Apple*

A couple of years ago, Tim Cook said that the iPhone and its 4" screen were big enough and that the "experience" was what counted, not the size. What a bunch of BS...
So people bought the available big phones and Samsung made a lot of money and took over the market.
Just 2 weeks ago, the iPhone 6 and 6+ went on sale and they already sold 10 million of them! Tim Cook was wrong and he knows it.
People want evolution and more is more, and bigger is usually better.
I, as a professional photographer, want more megapixels and a bigger screen to replace my 1DX.
Why not?
Canon probably lost a lot of faithful owners to the D800. Who wouldn't want one at the specs and price?
I am still very happy with Canon to take the plunge but they need to step it up or they will lose like Apple did.
Being late to the party is not a good business move.


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## paulrossjones (Sep 28, 2014)

SoullessPolack said:


> To all the people threatening to jump from Canon to Sony/Nikon...
> 
> When you bought your Canon camera, it was obviously because you needed/wanted its performance. It was good enough. Now suddenly it's not good enough? Did it deteriorate in quality? You bought a camera because its performance was what sought, and now its performance (which is the exact same as when you bought it) is not good enough? Y'all make me laugh. Hah.



im an advertising photographer that has shot with canon most of the digital part of my career since the 1ds. I love canons lenses and usability of canon cameras, in my opinion the best thought out.
but the canon 22mp files have got me into trouble in several occasions with not having enough head room in the files and not having enough res. So in the past I have shot with phase and a contax when i needed the res and the file depth. Medium format is a dog though, unreliable and slow to work with. I used it, but I hated it.

So a few months ago i brought a sony a7r. I can use all my canon lenses on it, and the file quality absolutely blew away my canon. Not as good as my contax phase 65+, but very close. But the handling of the camera is awful, and the evf is so un-detailed, i really can't see what I am doing. Also, the evf doesn't work at all in even slight dark conditions, it delays and looses even more detail. so on paper its great, but in practice it isn't at all a professional camera IMO. 

But being so impressed with the sony a7r, I brought a d800 to test. A very nice camera, easy to use and again, shooting the same shots side by side with the canon 5dmk3, the d800 absolutely blows away the canon file in detail and dynamic range. its like night and day- shoot a subject with strong back light at the same exposure and iso the canon looses the highlights completely, where the nikon pull so much more highlight detail. 
I am so sold on nikon files, i am now buying nikon lenses and just got a d810 to shoot. This is even though my favourite lenses by far is my canon ef 50mm f1.0 and 85mm f1.2 (i shoot with a very short dof).
I am so impressed with my d810, I will no longer need to shoot with my dinosaur contax and phase p65!

I am about the last photographer out of all the dozens of professional photographers I know that has now moved to Nikon. Everybody use to shoot canon, now everyone in my industry shoots nikon. Nikon has also also taken medium format photographers away from their old cameras as well. Even the canon shooters I know are quite aware than canon files are inferior- they say they are waiting for canons next camera. But we have all waited too long. I hope canons answer will be at least as good- i would love to go back to canon, but at the moment Nikon is easily the most useful photographic tool out there.

paul


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## TeT (Sep 28, 2014)

jrista said:


> TeT said:
> 
> 
> > There was the testing being done late summer on a 1D body with prototype workings inside... That was confirmed... (I believe)
> ...



That is what I think is likely in October (if anything) an announcement that something is coming with some details to try and throw a salve on the bruised Canon image. 

I do hope for something and am hoping that canon is waiting on larger MP until they can get higher DR with less falloff through the higher ISO levels.

BTW: this thread got hijacked hard...


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## alberto1232 (Sep 29, 2014)

good topic thanks


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## Greatland (Oct 27, 2014)

Obviously October is just about over so not looking like any announcements this month.....perhaps in the Spring??


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## Helios68 (Oct 28, 2014)

3 more days to know if I get a 6D mkII?

Please Canon enlarge your FF range with a body between 5D and 6DmkII. Mix of 6D and 70D maybe? 8)


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## dstppy (Oct 28, 2014)

*Re: Canon is just like Apple*



clicstudio said:


> A couple of years ago, Tim Cook said that the iPhone and its 4" screen were big enough and that the "experience" was what counted, not the size. What a bunch of BS...
> So people bought the available big phones and Samsung made a lot of money and took over the market.
> Just 2 weeks ago, the iPhone 6 and 6+ went on sale and they already sold 10 million of them! Tim Cook was wrong and he knows it.
> People want evolution and more is more, and bigger is usually better.
> ...



Well, yes and no. Canon is like Apple in a lot of ways, but I don't see this as really one of them.

IIRC it was Steve, not Tim that said 4" was enough. It wasn't the right time and it wasn't a mistake. Saying it's enough because, inevitably something larger will have a market, that's a mistake. 

The iPhone 6 and 6+ are far too big (and at the same time, they are not). The form-factor of the 5 should be kept, as, for a phone, it's a good size for most people. Now, before anyone jumps on me about the 'too big', it's true, I should know, I have a "Times Square Jumbotron" right here in front of me . . . my hands are huge and it's a ridiculous size for a phone. I was just about to buy an iPad mini, and, for the price of the 128GB one, couldn't rationalize the unwieldy size. The iPhone 6+ is a great tablet, it's a serviceable phone.

Apple doesn't like to do things they don't utterly succeed at (except for making mice. For some reason, apple took a lot of pride in how terrible their pointer devices were just like Subarus are unapologetically ugly). They're not that big of a company, so they need to focus on what they succeed in. Take the "low end" phone market. The iPhone 5c numbers were good but the 5s outpaced it. They did the right thing in gauging the market and not jumping in until they knew the sales were there, and could do it in the way they always do, with a reasonable profit margin.

I honestly don't believe they lost any money on people who swapped. My ex listened to time and time again about android, but when it came right down to it, there was no switching. Her iPhone 4s was stolen, and, with all her options open, she decided to stay with the Apple "ecosystem" (all my stuff's here anyways).

Here's the tie-in to Canon. A friend of mine who shoots as well is a Nikon guy. He was complaining nonstop about how long the D800 was taking to be released, and admiring my gear and shots . . . not once did he consider swapping. There's a lot to be said for brand loyalty. Yes, you may be missing out, yes, it may be something hugely useful . . . but very few people switch. Only a few stick around here after doing so to constantly complain about it (I can think of one).

Another important difference between Canon and Apple is that on Canon forums, people lament their camera of choice, on Apple forums, they apologize for it.


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