# Canon Mirrorless [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 4, 2011)

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<p><strong>Canon Mirrorless next week?

</strong>I received an email this AM stating that Canon will announce the Canon QL-D1 mirrorlessÃ‚Â interchangeableÃ‚Â lens camera.</p>
<p>There were no specs or any other information given.</p>
<p><strong>CR’s Take</strong>

This is the first mirrorless information I have been given in months. If there’s an announcement coming next week, I can’t see this being all that gets sent my way.</p>
<p>The model name given is nostalgic and creative.</p>
<p><!--more--></p>
<p>“QL” was used by the Canonet, a <a href="http://www.cameraquest.com/canql17.htm">film rangefinder</a> that didn’t have interchangeable lenses.

<strong>*UPDATE* </strong>A reader wrote in and gave me a bit of a history lesson (I love em). “QL” actually stood for Quick Load. As in how film was loaded into the camera. There was also an FT-QL SLR. <em>Thanks!</em></p>
<p>“D1″ is a model used by Epson with their <a href="http://www.epson.com/cgi-bin/Store/consumer/consDetail.jsp?oid=49164277">digital rangefinder the R-D1</a> and RD1x.</p>
<p>So while a creative little bit of information, I am going to say it’s highly unlikely. It would be so great if it were true.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
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## EYEONE (Feb 4, 2011)

I don't really care too much about the mirrorless systems that are all the rage now. But Canon would be foolish not to release something along these lines.

But I sometimes I could see how it would be nice to have a great small walking around camera.


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## traveller (Feb 4, 2011)

I agree with your assessment: just another attention seeker fishing in the hope of a bite. 

Why do people bother with this sort of thing? It does amaze me how someone can get a thrill out of unimaginative, well... Lying is what it boils down to. True hoaxes should have an entertainment factor that the people who are hoaxed can actually enjoy when the truth is revealed. 

Having said all this, I'm not entirely sure if some of what CR gets sent isn't deliberate mis-information and market research from Canon itself, partly to muddy the waters in case there is a real leak and also to gauge reaction to proposed specifications of future models (probably a long way off). 

P.S. I had a go on someone's NEX5 today: beautifully built, but the 18-55mm is too big for the body and the controls were a bit fiddly. The first criticism would be alleviated with a couple more primes; as for the second, I'm sure one could get used to it. It's a shame that Sony didn't put just one or two more buttons on the body, there's plenty of 'real estate' available.


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## jonne (Feb 4, 2011)

This mirrorless thing is just a fad, like the Internet. Canon is smarter than that.


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## c.d.embrey (Feb 4, 2011)

This would be a great camera, but Canon would never build it.

Something like a Leica M9, with simple film style controls, and short primes (NO ZOOMS) would be a good seller at a reasonable price.


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## ms (Feb 4, 2011)

i agree that a reasonably priced and more modern (screen, live view, and perhaps an EVF that gets around the macro/tele limitations of an RF finder) M9 type camera would be awesome but I just don't see canon going that way... they are not going to risk cannibalizing sales of any of their SLRs... there are some rumors of nikon putting out a high-end mirrorless in the not to distant future... I think that's more likely though I do still hope against all odds that Canon do something remarkable for a change


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 4, 2011)

EYEONE said:


> But I sometimes I could see how it would be nice to have a great small walking around camera.



PowerShot S95. Reasonable zoom range, shoots RAW, fits in the pocket of my jeans.


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## EYEONE (Feb 4, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> EYEONE said:
> 
> 
> > But I sometimes I could see how it would be nice to have a great small walking around camera.
> ...



I've actually looked at that camera before for that purpose.
It's more pricey than I'd like. For $400 I lug my 7D around.


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## Flake (Feb 4, 2011)

If Canon do produce a mirrorless camera, I wonder if it will take the existing EF lenses, that would make it attractive to exising users.


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 4, 2011)

EYEONE said:


> I've actually looked at that camera before for that purpose.
> It's more pricey than I'd like. For $400 I lug my 7D around.



I had a similar thought. But I balanced that against the shots I would continue to miss because I didn't lug along the 7D and a lens or two, and also the fact that while expensive, it's cheaper than most of the lenses I'd want to use on a dSLR, and decided to get it. 

SIdebar, but the final straw was a trip up to New Hampshire where we went on a family outing to some glacial caves, with names like "Eye of the Needle" and "Lemon Crush". I had a backpack with my 7D and 3 lenses in it, and came very, very close to getting irrevocably stuck in one of those caves! With the S95, I never have to say, hmmmm...should I _really_ bring along the 5DII or the 7D...it's going to be really inconvenient on this outing, but what shots will I miss without a camera, short of relying on my iPhone? The S95 produces some great images for it's size, especially once I started using DxO, which does a much better job at reducing the noise inherent to the smaller sensor, compared to DPP. 

The other rationale for the S95 is as an emergency backup camera - most times when go out shooting, I am not taking both the 5DII and the 7D. If I'm on a long trip, what happens if the dSLR goes belly up? The S95 adds virtually no weight or bulk to the backpack full of camera gear, and gives me a backup camera, just in case.


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## bvukich (Feb 4, 2011)

Flake said:


> If Canon do produce a mirrorless camera, I wonder if it will take the existing EF lenses, that would make it attractive to exising users.



Native, it would be unlikely. As it would result in a body that is easily twice as deep as it needs to be.

However an adapter, be it first party or third, would be logical.


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## jacrow (Feb 4, 2011)

I'd love to see Canon produce a FF range finder to compete with the Leica M9 that I can't afford. My first "serious" camera was a Yashica rangefinder and I learned so much from it. Having something similar for street photography that is inconspicuous would be great. At least until I can afford a Leica.


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## EYEONE (Feb 4, 2011)

neuroanatomist said:


> EYEONE said:
> 
> 
> > I've actually looked at that camera before for that purpose.
> ...



You make good points. It is a topic I'd like to revisit when perhaps I'm making more money as a photography. I'm just trying to build more business and EF glass right now.

I think a good FF range finder would be great. But I will never happen. I don't think there is that much market for it just because it would have to be expensive, being FF. I have found myself wanting the 8 Grand to drop on a Leica M9.


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## gmrza (Feb 4, 2011)

EYEONE said:


> You make good points. It is a topic I'd like to revisit when perhaps I'm making more money as a photography. I'm just trying to build more business and EF glass right now.
> 
> I think a good FF range finder would be great. But I will never happen. I don't think there is that much market for it just because it would have to be expensive, being FF. I have found myself wanting the 8 Grand to drop on a Leica M9.



I think you've hit the nail on the head there: the market for rangefinders is very limited - basically to serious enthusiasts and a small number of pros. Even with film, rangefinders very quickly gave way to SLRs in the mainstream market.
That doesn't change the fact that for my compact camera requirements, I would be better served with a rangefinder than a camera like the G11.
Incidentally, I would even be very happy with a rangefinder with an APS-C sensor.


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## J-Man (Feb 5, 2011)

> they are not going to risk cannibalizing sales of any of their SLRs...


They won't any more than the current situation, if someone wants a mirror-less camera they will get one,
if they were not going to buy my(if I were Canon) dslr I'd want the customer to buy my mirror-less vs. the other guys.


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## RuneL (Feb 5, 2011)

I'd love it if canon built a compact M-style camera that took EF-lenses. Don't care about the price either. I need it. Problem of course is the rather hefty mount, dwarfing every other mount on the planet, more or less.


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## DuLt (Feb 5, 2011)

Couldn't canon release a small evil fixed lens camera to serve as a compact substitute for s95 or the g12?


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## c.d.embrey (Feb 5, 2011)

J-Man said:


> > they are not going to risk cannibalizing sales of any of their SLRs...
> 
> 
> They won't any more than the current situation, if someone wants a mirror-less camera they will get one,
> if they were not going to buy my(if I were Canon) dslr I'd want the customer to buy my mirror-less vs. the other guys.



There are many *non-fanboys* in the world who will buy what best meets their needs. Ricoh GRIII s are carried by many pros, so are Panasonic GF1 s.

Fuji's X100 will also be bought by many Canon shooters.

If Canon doesn't fill the perceived need, others will. Fuji, Ricoh, Olympus, Panasonic, Leica, etc stay in business buy building things that CaNikon won't.


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## Rocky (Feb 5, 2011)

After reading the posts, I have the following thought:
1. In order to complete with the DSLR, the auto focusing speed of the EVIL must be as fast as the DSLR. So far non of the "mirrorless" can achieve that due to the "live view focusing". That is why Leica sticks to the manual focusing. Experience range finder user can guess the distance and use the " zone focusing " technique and endsup with zero focusing delay. Also all the Leica lenses have about 3/4 turn of the focusing ring for the entire focusing range and depth of field scale. That will definitely help. 
2. Overall size is important. Sony has gone over board on minimze the body and ends up with a large lense. Using existing DSLR lens with an adapter is not an answer. That will be too big. Try to compare the f2.0 35mm Aummicro 9 leica) with any F2 35mm dslr lens. The volume is about a factor of 4. So the EVIL needs to have its own set of lens to make the size to be small to lure people from their DSLR.
3. Due to the decrease thickness of the camera body and the will to make smaller lenses, FF in EVIL is almost a dream due to the high cost of the sensor and the special angled and offset micro lens arrangement ( Leica used it on M9, they may be holding patterns on it) plus soft ware adjustment to achieve even explosre from corner to corner. Even APSC will facing similar problem to a lesser degree.
3. Marketing pressure/ user perference. Due to the lower demand, the sales volume of EVIL will be quite a bit smaller than the DSLR. So in order to get the R & D and tooling expense back, the EVIL (body and lenses)will be selling a lot higher than the DSLR at the same performance level. So how many people will buy an EVIL instead of a DSLR???
4. What is the advantange of EVIL over the DSLR beside size??? That is the same reason why the film SLR has literally wiped out the film range finder camera, except Leica. Even Nikon and Canon stopped producing range finder (with interchangeable lens) in the 60's.
5. my personal choice of mirrorless is down to two. 1. Leica M9. It combined the best of classic interchangeable lens range finder and the digital. Too bad at $8000 body only is too steep for me, even I have some Leica lenses from my M4. 2. FujiFilm X100, I look at it as a high tech M9 with a fixed lens.


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## c.d.embrey (Feb 6, 2011)

Rocky said:


> After reading the posts, I have the following thought:
> 1. In order to complete with the DSLR, the auto focusing speed of the EVIL must be as fast as the DSLR.
> 
> 
> ...


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## Rocky (Feb 6, 2011)

My previous post is mainly talking about people that are thinking about switch from DSLR to EVIL. If they do not mind mising the "Kodak momment" and the picture quality that is inferior to the DSLR that they have already own, then any P &S will do. I got nothing aginst EVIL or P&S. In fact there is always a Canon SD 870 as an emergency back up in my camera bag. 
Just remember that camera is a highly subjective choice. There is no right or wrong choice. Some aims at price, some aims at picture quality, some at convience and size , some aims at ergonics and features. etc. For me I cannot justify myself paying the price of a DSLR for a EVIL with a 4/3 sensor and at least twice the shutter delay of a DSLR. The reason why I switch from P &S to DSLR is that I have missed so many picture of moving objects, especially dogs running, childrens playing etc. So will I be giving up my DSLR and goes back to the EVIL???


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## Jan (Feb 6, 2011)

Maybe the soon-to-be-announced 600D is going to be Canon's first mirrorless camera... 

As the 60D moved down to the Rebel-level, the 600D may move down to the EVIL level.

No, wait, the 1100D will be the EVIL cam...


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## olav (Feb 6, 2011)

polpaulin said:


> how it could be worst in picture quality if it is a FF ? the mirror is big noisy dusty shake the body , I really wait that next generation of cameras , the mirror has no future except for nostalgics


The mirror has a future as long as it is needed for a fast and accurate AF!


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## ronderick (Feb 6, 2011)

Funny that I actually see the FT-QL mentioned here... I just finish cleaning my dad's copy, which has been recently uncovered in the storage after three decades or so and came back from repairs/cleaning. 

If Canon actually introduces a mirrorless camera, I hope they can come out with a FL/FD lens adapter, so I can make some use out of the relic Canon lens collection (though admittingly it's going to be quite a challenge to work those ancient lenses)


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## Rocky (Feb 6, 2011)

polpaulin said:


> how it could be worst in picture quality if it is a FF ? the mirror is big noisy dusty shake the body , I really wait that next generation of cameras , the mirror has no future except for nostalgics


 The mirror is what give the DSLR fast auto focusing. As far as I known there is no Mirrorless camera can beat the auto focus speed of DSLR yet.


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## Rocky (Feb 6, 2011)

c.d.embrey said:


> Why do you think that a Mirrorless needs to compete with a DSLR ??? There are an awful lot of people who are not interested with carrying a large, heavy DSLR when going on a family outing. But want something better than a P&S.
> No need to lure away from a DSLR ... many people will own both. And some P&S owners with buy them who aren't interested in Big & Heavy DSLRs. Two different groups to sell to.
> P&S cameras out sell DSLRs because there are many people who don't want or need a DSLR. Mirrorless cameras will sell to people moving-up from a P&S you don't want the size and weight of a DSLR and don't need image quality of a DSLR. How many of your acquaintance s print their snapshots at 20x30 ???
> For many people that is enough. Mico 4/3 cameras sell well because of their size and good enough quality. BTW why don't you own a 60 MP + MFD, much better quality than a DSLR



C.D Embrey, my post is about the EVIL system not P & S. I have never mentioned that 4/3 and P &S are not good. You keep on using P & S as a counter agruement and try to confuse the discussion. People have different need and different idea of camera. that is why there are so many different makers and models out there. I do not own a 60 MP MFD due to the extremely highj price, size and weight. Also I do not want to deal with 60 MP per picture. What my acquaintance do with their picture is their own business.


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## Rocky (Feb 6, 2011)

RuneL said:


> I'd love it if canon built a compact M-style camera that took EF-lenses. Don't care about the price either. I need it. Problem of course is the rather hefty mount, dwarfing every other mount on the planet, more or less.


Just get the M9 with one lens, It will be about $9500.


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## markd61 (Feb 6, 2011)

As enthusiasts we often lose sight of the fact that the market for cameras is far larger and more diverse than our little corner.
Canon may or may not make an EVIL camera (the 666D? perhaps) but I think that they will do a lot of research in Japan where they are headquartered and where there is a massive market. I also believe that the enthusiast market and casual snapper market are far larger than the pro market, all the MWACS notwithstanding.

As a pro, a mirrorless camera with an excellent eye level VF that was truly silent would be golden for wedding and theater work. 
As a realist I recognize that companies like Sony who research the market like crazy will give us cameras like the NEX which is OK but dead useless for a pro in fast moving environment. 
Thus I feel there is a real chance that Canon may give us a glorified P&S that, like the Sony, needs to be held at arm's length to compose and shoot.


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## Rocky (Feb 6, 2011)

markd61 said:


> As a pro, a mirrorless camera with an excellent eye level VF that was truly silent would be golden for wedding and theater work.


That is the exact reason why Leica M9 and the Fujifilm X100 are in my mind.


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## c.d.embrey (Feb 6, 2011)

markd61 said:


> As enthusiasts we often lose sight of the fact that the market for cameras is far larger and more diverse than our little corner.



Exactly ! Someone who gets it.

Many enthusiasts aways seem to think that if they don't like it, no-one will like it. Get a clue, everything isn't about you, you, you.


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## jhpeterson (Feb 7, 2011)

I've been a Canon user since the late '70s, moved over to the EOS-1 system twenty years ago and have been completely digital the past six. These days I use 1DS and 1D bodies almost exclusively, but could appreciate a somewhat smaller and lighter camera to carry around for casual photography situations. 
A few years back I had a Powershot Pro 1, which almost answered my needs. But, I would have liked faster response, more accurate focusing and definitely a larger sensor. I've owned a couple QL-17s over the years and used them as take-anywhere cameras. It's about the right size for me, as the point-and-shoot models have always felt too small, especially in their controls. 
It would be a great idea if Canon brought back the QL name in a mirrorless model, and even nicer if they could fit an APS-C sensor in it along with interchangle, fast and hopefully "L-quality" glass, though I'd probably still buy it in four-thirds configuration. Nice, too, if they could keep controls intuitive, simple and large enough for those of us who are mostly thumbs.


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## EYEONE (Feb 9, 2011)

I think an issue for me is cost and control.
I just watch a review for the GH2 and it has a touch screen on the back. Blah. I actually have some hope for Nikon's EVIL because it suppose to be geared more toward the pro. Hopefully dual control wheels and some nobs. I don't care if it looks ugly.

I think EVIL camera's can be fine but everyone except Leica seems to be pointing their brands at the casual user.


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## ELK (Feb 9, 2011)

EYEONE said:


> ...everyone except Leica seems to be pointing their brands at the casual user.



and also Fujifilm.


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## Rocky (Feb 10, 2011)

ELK said:


> EYEONE said:
> 
> 
> > ...everyone except Leica seems to be pointing their brands at the casual user.
> ...



Fuji X-100 is not in the same league as Leica M9. X-100 is with a fixed lens and APS-H snsor. M9 is FF with interchangeable lens.


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## Woody (Feb 10, 2011)

I really want a Canon mirrorless camera with fast AF.


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## EYEONE (Feb 10, 2011)

dilbert said:


> EYEONE said:
> 
> 
> > I think an issue for me is cost and control.
> ...




I didn't say there was a problem with it. I was simply stating that fact.
I'm not sure what your point was...


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## fred_jb (Feb 18, 2011)

I've been wanting a small camera for a while, having wearied of lugging a large Canon DSLR (currently 7D) and lenses around on the off-chance of getting some good photo opportunities. The Canon is great for sports and for taking on pre-planned photo trips or outings, and also on holiday, but just not sensible for more casual use. 

I first bought a Panasonic LX5 which I thought I could share with my wife and replace her aging but still good Fuji F30. However, even though this is about as good as compact cameras get, I was still not happy with the image quality, especially if any editing was required. The wife is also unimpressed as she finds the Fuji perfectly adequate and simpler to use. 

I've given up on waiting for Canon's offering in this fast growing market, and I was quite interested in the Samsung NX10 because of the APS-C size sensor and the range of lenses available. However, I'd been put off by some adverse comments and lukewarm reviews but collected a lot of samples online and was generally impressed. I then tried out a few cameras in this class the other day and found the NX10 to be exactly what I was after. I don't mind that it looks like a shrunken DSLR because in essence that is exactly what I want. 

I also didn't mind that it came with a flash and viewfinder neatly built-in, unlike the expensive and fiddly add-ons needed for other brands like the Micro 4/3rds and the NEX range. I also wanted a compact lens with a near normal focal length and the Panasonic 30mm f/2 (45mm equiv) meets that need, and has gotten some very good reviews. Non of the other brands seem to offer an exact equivalent to this. The clincher was some of the excellent deals on the NX10 now that the NX11 is almost here. 

I've taken a few shots around the house with all three lenses and I'm quite amazed at the quality. All three lenses seem very sharp and noise is very well controlled up to ISO 800. Focusing speed is very quick - just not an issue. It really is above expectations and I'm looking forward to taking it outdoors, given some decent daylight, which has been very elusive around here so far this year. 

I would say I could recommend this to anyone wanting a a backup to their DSLR or even as an only camera. Sitting it side by side with my 7D, given the size difference, it is hard to believe that they have the same size sensor - at least until you see the photos! 

I think Canon and Nikon are going to have to get on board with this very soon or Panasonic, Samsung, etc, are going to eat their lunch. 

Fred


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## match14 (Mar 1, 2011)

I tried an EPL-1 the other day and quite liked it, I really hope Canon brings something mirror-less soon.


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## jhpeterson (Jan 9, 2012)

jhpeterson said:


> I've been a Canon user since the late '70s, moved over to the EOS-1 system twenty years ago and have been completely digital the past six. These days I use 1DS and 1D bodies almost exclusively, but could appreciate a somewhat smaller and lighter camera to carry around for casual photography situations.
> A few years back I had a Powershot Pro 1, which almost answered my needs. But, I would have liked faster response, more accurate focusing and definitely a larger sensor. I've owned a couple QL-17s over the years and used them as take-anywhere cameras. It's about the right size for me, as the point-and-shoot models have always felt too small, especially in their controls.
> It would be a great idea if Canon brought back the QL name in a mirrorless model, and even nicer if they could fit an APS-C sensor in it along with interchangable, fast and hopefully "L-quality" glass, though I'd probably still buy it in four-thirds configuration. Nice, too, if they could keep controls intuitive, simple and large enough for those of us who are mostly thumbs.


Thought I'd "refresh" my first post on here, now that Canon has announced the G1X. It's certainly a giant step forward with the APS-C size sensor. Now, if only they'd put in some fast "L" glass!


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