# Patent: Canon Image Sensor Stabilization



## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 25, 2018)

> Sensor stabilization was definitely one of the bigger feature omissions from the Canon EOS R if we go by the feedback we’ve received. Canon has always maintained that in lens stabilization is the best way to go, however, Canon themselves left the door open to the idea that the EOS R system may get sensor stabilization in a future body.
> Northlight Images has uncovered a Canon patent showing sensor stabilization.
> We think one of the challenges facing image sensor image stabilization from Canon is making it work with lens image stabilization and improving the overall performance.
> Japanese patent application [2018-165756 (P2018-165756A)]



Continue reading...


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## mirage (Oct 25, 2018)

hehehe, here we go! It will come in 2nd gen EOS R bodies. After you all spent money on first gen. Shortly thereafter comes "Mk. II, now with IBIS"


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## Besisika (Oct 25, 2018)

It's about time.


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## Click (Oct 25, 2018)

Besisika said:


> It's about time.



+1


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## Maximilian (Oct 25, 2018)

Now let‘s see, if it‘ll be second or third gen. EOS R


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## nchoh (Oct 25, 2018)

mirage said:


> hehehe, here we go! It will come in 2nd gen <insert camera system here>. After you all spent money on first gen. Shortly thereafter comes "Mk. <insert roman numeral here>, ..."



Fixed it for you so that you can reuse on other sites!


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## KeithBreazeal (Oct 25, 2018)

I'll consider the jump to the "R" type series when it has IBIS, a minimum of 8 fps with AF, better buffering times, and a more reasonable button/control layout.


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## brad-man (Oct 25, 2018)

Since Canon has ranked among the top five companies with the most U.S. patents for 32 years in a row, and since the vast majority of those patents never see the light of day, it may be a bit over-optimistic to assume this one will be implemented any time soon. Then again, who'd have thought that they would come out with a super sharp 50mm f/1.2 lens or an f/2 L class standard zoom? It almost makes me look forward to retiring my 5DlV. Almost...


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## Jethro (Oct 25, 2018)

Besisika said:


> It's about time.


It's about space ...


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## aceflibble (Oct 25, 2018)

mirage said:


> hehehe, here we go! It will come in 2nd gen EOS R bodies. After you all spent money on first gen. Shortly thereafter comes "Mk. II, now with IBIS"


That's assuming the R system will only have one body SKU at a time, which is a huge and without doubt incorrect assumption to make.

Why people think Canon are only going to have one R body at a time, I don't know. All common sense, logic, and history of camera manufacturing says they will have some lower-end models and some higher-end ones, and the R—being basically a 6D—sits in the middle of the range.
Yes, it sucks for those people who bought the R already, erroneously thinking this was as good as it would get, but that is the same for all technology and modern products. When you buy something brand new at launch—anything—all you are really guaranteeing is that you are paying the highest price for the weakest or otherwise most baseline product. Every single person who waits will either get a similar product at a lower price or a better product at a similar price. 

It's not like cameras are a new invention. Everyone knows this is how it goes. If you want IBIS, don't buy a camera which does not have IBIS. If you won't wait before purchasing then you are knowingly accepting the worst deal for yourself. There will always be a revision, there will always be supporting products, there will always be a higher-end model or a lower-end model, or sales, cash rebates, bundles, you name it.


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## LSXPhotog (Oct 25, 2018)

mirage said:


> hehehe, here we go! It will come in 2nd gen EOS R bodies. After you all spent money on first gen. Shortly thereafter comes "Mk. II, now with IBIS"



How quickly Sony users forget how terrible their first and second gen cameras were. LMAO Adding features to future iterations of a camera model is nothing new. It's possible Canon was simply unable to create a sensor stabilization system that didn't overheat, wasn't brittle, and could be made at a cost that wasn't too astronomical. If IBIS comes to Canon, it will come at a cost.


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## Jethro (Oct 25, 2018)

By the way, the actual patent application documentation shows a DSLR rather than a ML body. Not to say that the tech couldn't be applied to ML, but just saying.


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## TMHKR (Oct 25, 2018)

And why does anyone of you believe this will see the light of day? How many patents did Canon throw, just to never realize them?


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## Cochese (Oct 25, 2018)

This is nothing New and not Canon's first IBIS patent. Not sure why anybody is putting more stock into this one. Of course they'll offer IBIS at some point. But they don't at the moment.


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## pj1974 (Oct 25, 2018)

KeithBreazeal said:


> I'll consider the jump to the "R" type series when it has IBIS, a minimum of 8 fps with AF, better buffering times, and a more reasonable button/control layout.



I have played with an tested the EOS R in one of my local bricks and mortar photography shops a few weeks ago. Definitely a decent camera, as Canon's first model into FF mirrorless. Build quality was solid, comfortable ergonomics (for my medium sized male hands); EVF fantastic, and the AF good. The lenses are great. No doubt the EOS R is capable of capturing fantastic images in the right hands.

At this stage, though, the EOS R does not impress me as a camera that I plan to buy. The main physical characteristics I dislikes was the on-off dial (i.e. a medium sized dial just for on/off, but without modes - the DSLR equivalent dial is much better imho!), the M-Fn bar (please Canon, a joystick instead!), and the AF button should be moved (again, as most DSLRs have implemented it).

I would like to see improved AF (particularly in tracking power: speed and accuracy), faster fps (8 to 10 fps would be ideal) and overall snappier operation. It was not a 'slow' camera, but was not as responsive as my DSLRs. Ok, yes, IBIS would be great too. Though IBIS could be somewhat negated if all the lenses I want have IS in lens. 

The future is bright... the future is exciting! From a photographic perspective, I am very thankful to live in the day and age we do. 

PJ


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## Talys (Oct 25, 2018)

aceflibble said:


> That's assuming the R system will only have one body SKU at a time, which is a huge and without doubt incorrect assumption to make.
> 
> Why people think Canon are only going to have one R body at a time, I don't know. All common sense, logic, and history of camera manufacturing says they will have some lower-end models and some higher-end ones, and the R—being basically a 6D—sits in the middle of the range.
> Yes, it sucks for those people who bought the R already, erroneously thinking this was as good as it would get, but that is the same for all technology and modern products. When you buy something brand new at launch—anything—all you are really guaranteeing is that you are paying the highest price for the weakest or otherwise most baseline product. Every single person who waits will either get a similar product at a lower price or a better product at a similar price.
> ...



People who like to complain do not understand why manufacturer X can't have every feature ever invented and the best optics, all in a size/format that they want, and for the best price on the market -- and have that price decrease by 25% every year while the features incrementally improve. 

You are absolutely right that cameras are not a new invention. Mirrorless is simply tinkering around the edges, and changes nothing of the fundamentals in the manufacture, distribution, positioning, or pricing of cameras and associated photography equipment.

I don't think it sucks to buy an R today instead of the model 2 years from now that has more features and better stuff, any more than it sucks for people who bought 5D2 when they could have just held out for 5D4. Because, you get to use the camera today, not 2 years from now 

That said, if you have a camera you're happy with, I don't think rushing out to buy a mirrorless will magically create shots that couldn't be made before.


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## mirage (Oct 25, 2018)

aceflibble said:


> That's assuming the R system will only have one body SKU at a time, which is a huge and without doubt incorrect assumption to make.
> 
> Why people think Canon are only going to have one R body at a time, I don't know. All common sense, logic, and history of camera manufacturing says they will have some lower-end models and some higher-end ones, and the R—being basically a 6D—sits in the middle of the range.


that's exactly what i said earlier. And why i used the plural ... "bodies".

i expect 3 FF EOS R gen 1 models. one lower (FF "Rebel"), one higher (50+MP) than the one already launched.

for second gen i expect a start with mirrorfree high end "1DX-III", plus MK. II of the three 1st gen models. All will likely have IBIS, except the base model ... marketing differentiation.


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## pwp (Oct 26, 2018)

Bring it on! Dual IS (body & lens) works a treat on my Panasonic G9. The benefit is 100% noticeable. 

-pw


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## gbc (Oct 26, 2018)

aceflibble said:


> That's assuming the R system will only have one body SKU at a time, which is a huge and without doubt incorrect assumption to make.
> 
> Why people think Canon are only going to have one R body at a time, I don't know. All common sense, logic, and history of camera manufacturing says they will have some lower-end models and some higher-end ones, and the R—being basically a 6D—sits in the middle of the range.
> Yes, it sucks for those people who bought the R already, erroneously thinking this was as good as it would get, but that is the same for all technology and modern products. When you buy something brand new at launch—anything—all you are really guaranteeing is that you are paying the highest price for the weakest or otherwise most baseline product. Every single person who waits will either get a similar product at a lower price or a better product at a similar price.
> ...


I bought the R already, but did not in any way think this was as good as it was going to get. I just wanted a second camera body, and I wanted a mirrorless and didn't want a Sony or Nikon. If IBIS comes in some future body, super. Until then, I'll just keep using the first gen R and appreciate any improvements if and when they happen. The R isn't going to make me ditch my DSLR any time soon, and it probably never will. But for a lighter, smaller second body, it's been fantastic in the two weeks I've had it.
Now I WILL be disappointed if the next iteration doesn't make me at least think about ditching my DSLR.


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## tmc784 (Oct 26, 2018)

Does the IBIS also available in DSLR ?


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## RGF (Oct 26, 2018)

This could be interesting if IBIS and IS work together or against each other? May make 3rd party lens unworkable on the EOS R future models


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Oct 26, 2018)

tmc784 said:


> Does the IBIS also available in DSLR ?


Yes, some DSLR's have it, Canon does not. They have patents for it, but that does not mean they have decided to do it.


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## Jethro (Oct 26, 2018)

mirage said:


> i expect 3 FF EOS R gen 1 models. one lower (FF "Rebel"), one higher (50+MP) than the one already launched.


I don't know why people think there will be a 'rebel' level FFM coming. The EOS R seems to be pitched 'a bit above' 6D class (I mean, it has a version of the 5Div sensor), so I'd expect the lower spec one to be 'a bit below' 6D class, maybe with a (maybe updated) version of the 6Dii sensor, less video features and build (and maybe a lower level screen). That doesn't mean entry-level in rebel terms.


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## Bundu (Oct 26, 2018)

Talys said:


> That said, if you have a camera you're happy with, I don't think rushing out to buy a mirrorless will magically create shots that couldn't be made before.


I am very happy with my 6dii but bought the R anyway. And I do magically get shots (in focus) with the R in very dark environments that I cannot get with the 6dii.That is with the 85 1.4 is. The autofocus performance difference is day by night. Pun intended.


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## Talys (Oct 26, 2018)

Bundu said:


> I am very happy with my 6dii but bought the R anyway. And I do magically get shots (in focus) with the R in very dark environments that I cannot get with the 6dii.That is with the 85 1.4 is. The autofocus performance difference is day by night. Pun intended.



I love my 6DII as well, and I also bought an R  I enjoy the R, but the 6D2 is still better at dark shots, because as great as the low light AF is on the R, it can't beat a flash illuminator, which gives instant, perfect focus even when it's pitch black. Some of my favorite cat photos are taken with almost no ambient light (not enough for AF, for sure), using strobes, softboxes and eggcrates to get the effect I want, and I use a hotshoe flash illuminator to take care of the AF.


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## Chaitanya (Oct 26, 2018)

KeithBreazeal said:


> I'll consider the jump to the "R" type series when it has IBIS, a minimum of 8 fps with AF, better buffering times, and a more reasonable button/control layout.


Add dual card slots to list and even I will upgrade to R else my current DSLR does a perfect job for my needs.


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## stefang (Oct 26, 2018)

"We think one of the challenges facing image sensor image stabilization from Canon is making it work with lens image stabilization and improving the overall performance."

There's an easy solution to that: Just shut off IBIS when using a lens that has superior IS. This can be done automatically, for example when using the long telephoto lenses where IBIS is not that capable.


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## mb66energy (Oct 26, 2018)

pj1974 said:


> [...]
> I would like to see improved AF (particularly in tracking power: speed and accuracy), faster fps (8 to 10 fps would be ideal) and overall snappier operation. It was not a 'slow' camera, but was not as responsive as my DSLRs. Ok, yes, IBIS would be great too. [...]
> 
> *The future is bright... the future is exciting! From a photographic perspective, I am very thankful to live in the day and age we do. *
> ...



Well spoken! - Me too ...

After upgrading my EOS M to an EOS M50 I have seen what Canon can do: The transformation from a clumsy (operation wise) camera with good IQ to a camera which operates very fluidly and has excellent IQ (in APS-C land).

If I transfer this development to the EOS R system and extrapolate it to a hypothetical EOS R5 and EOS R50 these cameras will be fantastic!

The current EF-M 32 1.4 is cream on the top of the EOS M50 camera and if we will see (in EOS R land) some more RF 1.8 xyz mm IS lenses the RF 1.8 50 IS STM Macro will be a great allround lens which doesn't cost an arm and a leg.


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## mirage (Oct 26, 2018)

Jethro said:


> I don't know why people think there will be a 'rebel' level FFM coming. The EOS R seems to be pitched 'a bit above' 6D class (I mean, it has a version of the 5Div sensor), so I'd expect the lower spec one to be 'a bit below' 6D class, maybe with a (maybe updated) version of the 6Dii sensor, less video features and build (and maybe a lower level screen). That doesn't mean entry-level in rebel terms.



an entry level "EOS R6" model with re-used, sub-par 6D II sensor (in 2019!) and lower functionality/performance than EOS R (eg AF tracking) would likely not be called "Rebel" because of FF sensor but would be one in reality. and it would be stupid. 

But imagine, if Canon were to launch a more compact, lower-priced "EOS R50" akin to EOS M50 (which at half the price is better than flagship M5)?

Specs:
* smaller body than EOS R - whatever is possible with same battery (LP-E6N)
* same sensor (=5D4 not 6D2)
* same AF, maybe further improved Eye tracking (also for cats and dogs and hamsters, not only for human subjects 
* no top OLED display
* no M-fn slider thingie 
* proven EOS rear thumb-wheel (like 6D II) + touch AF point selection (like M50, EOS R)
* regular mode dial instead of On/Off dial (like 6D II)
* responsive operation (a bit better than R) 
* single SD slot (min. UHS-II, better UHS-III)
* no 4k video (like 6D II ) 

... at half price of EOS R (around USD//€ 1250) 

i bet it would be a home run in the market and really help Canon to reach "critical mass" for RF mount quickly and reach #1 position in mirrorfree FF ILCs. bye bye Nikon, bye bye Sony. bye bye 4k videots, just buy a Canon video cam! 

we shall see whether Canon is stupid or smart.


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## hachu21 (Oct 26, 2018)

Do we have enough feedback on how those IBIS behave with time? I mean, does a floating sensor whistand 10 years+ of normal use?
It seems that the floating elements can be a weak point on some lenses. Am I right?
I know it's totally old fashionned to think about long term usability, but it's how i am...


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## Bundu (Oct 26, 2018)

Talys said:


> I love my 6DII as well, and I also bought an R  I enjoy the R, but the 6D2 is still better at dark shots, because as great as the low light AF is on the R, it can't beat a flash illuminator, which gives instant, perfect focus even when it's pitch black. Some of my favorite cat photos are taken with almost no ambient light (not enough for AF, for sure), using strobes, softboxes and eggcrates to get the effect I want, and I use a hotshoe flash illuminator to take care of the AF.


I have found also that when you use the little red built in illuminator that the focus is almost instant up to 10 meters away. I have not tested it any further.
And silly as it sounds I use the low light focus abilities mostly for "snaps" in and around camp at night, not any serious photography! And it is better if people do not know you are taking snaps hence no illuminator used. Going to try it with my Sigma 14 1.8 next week for astro. Want to see if it will autofocus on the milky way.
I do feel the R is slower in operation than the 6dii generally speaking ? Or is it only because I am not used to it ??? Only played with it on two evenings. Will play with it more this weekend.


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## padam (Oct 26, 2018)

hachu21 said:


> Do we have enough feedback on how those IBIS behave with time? I mean, does a floating sensor whistand 10 years+ of normal use?
> It seems that the floating elements can be a weak point on some lenses. Am I right?
> I know it's totally old fashionned to think about long term usability, but it's how i am...


Of course it may have potential issues, it's a given trade-off.

By the same token, one should not get a mirrorless camera with an OLED viewfinder because the panel will degrade over time.


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## BeenThere (Oct 26, 2018)

Talys said:


> I love my 6DII as well, and I also bought an R  I enjoy the R, but the 6D2 is still better at dark shots, because as great as the low light AF is on the R, it can't beat a flash illuminator, which gives instant, perfect focus even when it's pitch black. Some of my favorite cat photos are taken with almost no ambient light (not enough for AF, for sure), using strobes, softboxes and eggcrates to get the effect I want, and I use a hotshoe flash illuminator to take care of the AF.


Pity the cat.


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## MartinF. (Oct 26, 2018)

tmc784 said:


> Does the IBIS also available in DSLR ?


A fair guess is that IBIS will be for R-series only. All new features of that kind will probably be on R-series. My quess is that the EOS DSLR line will still evolve on features like autofocus points, DIGIC processors, and sensors, but we will probably not see any big jumps in evolution nor revolution and ground breaking new features on DSLR. They will be cash cows for some (or many) years to come, rock solid well proven technology as they are. So will the EF lenses.
But the whistle and bells will be on R-series bodies and RS lenses.
But that is - of course - just a guess


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## wtlloyd (Oct 26, 2018)

Jethro said:


> It's about space ...


Wow, now there's an archaic reference.


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## zonoskar (Oct 26, 2018)

Look like only X and Y stabilization, not rotation and/or tilt?


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## mirage (Oct 26, 2018)

tmc784 said:


> Does the IBIS also available in DSLR ?



no.


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## mirage (Oct 26, 2018)

on a different note: I find it amazing that Canon is still able to get something patented for IBIS. Given the many different patents and actual products from other companies - Olympus, Sony, etc. - I would have thought all of it to fall under "prior art"/ "already invented"/ "already patented"?
Do you guys see anything "very special" in the Canon patent + drawings that might qualify as NEW, UNIQUE, PATENT-worthy? To me it just looks like your "by now standard average-Joe sensor shaker". 

Don't get me wrong: personally I would like to get Canon cameras and lenses with dual IS - in body and in lens - with maximum effectiveness. But I am just surprised they are still able to patent something ... to me it is as if somebody in 2018 could still get a patent on a "non-horse-drawn, auto-motive carriage".


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## nchoh (Oct 26, 2018)

zonoskar said:


> Look like only X and Y stabilization, not rotation and/or tilt?



It looks like there is tilt. But there pictures in the article do not show the top view of the 8A piece. That could be the rotational piece?


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## mb66energy (Oct 26, 2018)

padam said:


> Of course it may have potential issues, it's a given trade-off.
> 
> By the same token, one should not get a mirrorless camera with an OLED viewfinder because the panel will degrade over time.



OLED displays degenerate but I think a life time of 5000 hrs is standard today meaning its brightness is halved during that period.
But how long is it enabled? 20 seconds per image makes 180 images per hour operation or 180 000 images during 1000 hours of operation resulting in a brightness reduction of nearly 10% - due to the logarithmic sensitivity of the eye not really visible.

For fuel cells in cars I read that a life time of 2000 - 3000 hours is sufficient. My first reaction was "What? Not 10000 hours or so?" - but after doing the (simple) math - 70km/h is the average speed and you have 3000 hours life time - it will take you half way to the moon ( ~ 200 000 km ) and is the "life distance" of most cars.


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## mb66energy (Oct 26, 2018)

nchoh said:


> It looks like there is tilt. But there pictures in the article do not show the top view of the 8A piece. That could be the rotational piece?



I think it has some rotational component. There are two left-right-arrows called mb and mc (m for motion?) and one up-down-arrow called ma.
Using mb and mc coordinated (in one direction) + ma you have xy shifting
Using mb and mc in opposite directions (e.g. mb to the left and ma to the right) you have a rotation
Combining both motion types you can counteract any type of rotation and shifting (within the limits of the acceleration sensor / electronics / actors).

Tilting the sensor is IMO not very helpful because it changes the focal plane. Maybe interesting in macro where you can do some tilting but I think the majority of cases will be done first!


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## Talys (Oct 26, 2018)

BeenThere said:


> Pity the cat.



She loves posing for the camera


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## Lurker (Oct 26, 2018)

tmc784 said:


> Does the IBIS also available in DSLR ?


Canon has written a white paper on IBIS for the DSLR, they think it is impractical. 

The main problem is trying to keep the view finder image in sync with the sensor image. To do this you have to have the mirror assembly and sensor on the same IBIS controlled platform. If you don't stabilize both devices the image may be stable on the sensor but the image in the view finder will be moving around. The photographer couldn't know what the on sensor image looked like. This is why they decided ILIS was the superior solution.

I'm not sure why so many think IBIS won't happen on a mirrorless. With electronic view finder being fed off the image sensor the mirror box issue goes away. Canon could well decide that IBIS, at least hybrid-IBIS, has value. Do they see value in a combination of ILIS and IBIS? They have at least explored this option. Is the combo better than an advanced IBIS system like is found in other cameras? Time will tell.


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## Sergio Smorovoz (Oct 26, 2018)

tmc784 said:


> Does the IBIS also available in DSLR ?



Do you have an EOS M50, satisfied with stabilization (IBIS)?


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## vitalsax (Oct 26, 2018)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


any news on dual cards slot patent?


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## lenspacker (Oct 26, 2018)

canon must learn - - the most discussed feature of the new R-system was the lack of IBIS -nikon, sony, panasonic has it at their FF - - and the way of canon to put IS on the objects is a fail, because they produces good lenses without IS furthermore - also for the R-system (f2, 28-70mm, 1,2 50mm) but a lot of people won`t buy such a system - for them this is the right moment to change to another system, because you have to buy a lot of new gear - and instead of canon, they will buy nikon and their new lenses etc. So canon must have IBIS - its very important for them - or they have to put an IS in EVERY lens


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## Jethro (Oct 27, 2018)

wtlloyd said:


> Wow, now there's an archaic reference.


I wondered if anyone would actually get it ...


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 27, 2018)

tmc784 said:


> Does the IBIS also available in DSLR ?



There is no reason it *cannot* be. Whether it *will* be is entirely up to the vendor.


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## SecureGSM (Oct 27, 2018)

mirage said:


> no.


Actually, yes... Minolta 7D was the first consumer DSLR to offer IBIS many years ago. 
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_stabilization
There are some others.


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## mirage (Oct 27, 2018)

SecureGSM said:


> Actually, yes... Minolta 7D was the first consumer DSLR to offer IBIS many years ago.
> https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image_stabilization
> There are some others.



thanks for the info/reminder. the demise of Minolta and their sale to an ignorant copy machine maker (Konica) is still regrettable.

my "no" was in regard to IBIS in Canon EOS DSLRs. I do not think it will happen even though technically possible. I do expect IBIS in (some/many/most) future models of Canon's EOS R mirrorfree lineup.


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## Architect1776 (Oct 27, 2018)

mirage said:


> hehehe, here we go! It will come in 2nd gen EOS R bodies. After you all spent money on first gen. Shortly thereafter comes "Mk. II, now with IBIS"



Agreed, I wait on such things as well or buy the old if good when the new comes out due to great price reductions.


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## BurningPlatform (Oct 27, 2018)

mirage said:


> thanks for the info/reminder. the demise of Minolta and their sale to an ignorant copy machine maker (Konica) is still regrettable.
> 
> ...


More like a merger, though. And Konica was a well established brand in photography as well. For instance, they pioneered AF in cameras in 1977. And of course, Sony bought their combined camera business later and here we are.


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## mirage (Oct 27, 2018)

Konica may have fooled around with some AF lab models or prototypes. But Minolta brought the first SLR [7000] with AF to market in 1985. Minolta *pioneered* AF. Konica was never anything more than some "also-ran", lower-tier company. Not only in imaging products, but also in copiers. It is a shame that Konica was able to buy out Minolta for close to nothing after useless Honeywell had managed to bring Minolta to their knees with a (frivolous) patent infringement legal war.


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## tmc784 (Oct 27, 2018)

Sergio Smorovoz said:


> Do you have an EOS M50, satisfied with stabilization (IBIS)?


I don't have a crop sensor body, M50 don't have IBIS, how do I satisfied with it ?


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## al2 (Oct 27, 2018)

I have been thinking about IBIS for a while now and I have more questions than answers right now. Maybe someone here can help me out or can point me in the right direction.

My understanding is that with in-lens stabilization the center of the desired image is manipulated in the lens to stay in the center of the lens image circle and the center of the sensor. With IBIS the desired image moves around in the stationary image circle and the sensor moves to keep the desired image on the sensor.

Questions:

How much does the sensor have to move? 
Does it move so little that it can stay inside the image circle of all lenses? Or, does it require lenses with oversized image circles?
Even if the image circle will completely cover the complete range of IBIS motion, won’t there be many times when one side of the image (the one moved farthest from the center of the image circle) shows high levels of vignetting and degraded image quality?


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## Sergio Smorovoz (Oct 27, 2018)

tmc784 said:


> I don't have a crop sensor body, M50 don't have IBIS, how do I satisfied with it ?


I was wrong? Canon EOS M5 have an IBIS?


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## mirage (Oct 27, 2018)

Sergio Smorovoz said:


> I was wrong? Canon EOS M5 have an IBIS?



EOS M50 has NO IBIS. All it has is some sort of electronic pixel processing to stabilize video capture.


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## bhf3737 (Oct 28, 2018)

lenspacker said:


> canon must learn - - the most discussed feature of the new R-system was the lack of IBIS -nikon, sony, panasonic has it at their FF - - and the way of canon to put IS on the objects is a fail, because they produces good lenses without IS furthermore - also for the R-system (f2, 28-70mm, 1,2 50mm) but a lot of people won`t buy such a system - for them this is the right moment to change to another system, because you have to buy a lot of new gear - and instead of canon, they will buy nikon and their new lenses etc. *So canon must have IBIS - its very important for them* - or they have to put an IS in EVERY lens



Why is that so? Because grass is presumably greener in "other camera makers" land?
IBIS is effective when "handheld shooting" with "lenses of short focal length" and in "good light". But it also introduces some unwanted hindrance to design, usage and reliability of the camera. Perhaps click bait reviewers all want it. But photographers may want to have a choice based on their real needs.


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## mirage (Oct 28, 2018)

bhf3737 said:


> Why is that so? Because grass is presumably greener in "other camera makers" land?
> IBIS is effective when "handheld shooting" with "lenses of short focal length" and in "good light". But it also introduces some unwanted hindrance to design, usage and reliability of the camera. Perhaps click bait reviewers all want it. But photographers may want to have a choice based on their real needs.



Nikon put IBIS in their Z cameras for good reasons. It should be and will be implemented in future mirrorfree Canon EOS R cameras. It will of course work in combo with IS in lenses. 

IBIS is more useful to more users and more situations than eg 4k video that goes mostly unused in practice.

Also, if IBIS can be switched on/off by user, everybody has their choice. 

so - where's the problem?


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## koenkooi (Oct 28, 2018)

mirage said:


> Nikon put IBIS in their Z cameras for good reasons. It should be and will be implemented in future mirrorfree Canon EOS R cameras. It will of course work in combo with IS in lenses.
> 
> IBIS is more useful to more users and more situations than eg 4k video that goes mostly unused in practice.
> 
> ...



Have a look at this article. I'm a bit more inclined to believe what Panasonic's PR department says since they _removed_ IBIS from a new model instead of _never having had it_ like Canon. Still, it's PR so have a few grains of salt ready.


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## scyrene (Oct 28, 2018)

Sergio Smorovoz said:


> I was wrong? Canon EOS M5 have an IBIS?



No it does not. No Canon camera has that feature. Some have 'electronic stabilisation' in video mode, which is quite different.


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## bhf3737 (Oct 28, 2018)

mirage said:


> ...
> so - where's the problem?


Please try to take some picture with say Fuji XH1 and its 100-400mm lens with IBIS only and OIS switched off.
-- or -- with fujifilm 16-55mm take picture of a family birthday party when the light is off and kid is blowing the candles.
-- or -- with fujifilm 90mm a portrait indoors without light modifiers.
You will see the problem. And there is no way to switch the IBIS off on that camera.
I thought XH1 is a "pro body" and IBIS is icing on the cake, but ended up trading it for a camera without.


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## mirage (Oct 28, 2018)

koenkooi said:


> Have a look at this article. I'm a bit more inclined to believe what Panasonic's PR department says since they _removed_ IBIS from a new model instead of _never having had it_ like Canon. Still, it's PR so have a few grains of salt ready.


sounds like a justification attempt for a cost-saving measure. for the specific video-centric camera model the assumption of tripod use may apply. but definitely not for cameras like EOS R.


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## mirage (Oct 28, 2018)

bhf3737 said:


> Please try to take some picture with say Fuji XH1 ...
> -- or -- with fujifilm 16-55mm take picture of a family birthday party when the light is off and kid is blowing the candles.


sure, IS does not help against motion blur with moving subjects and long shutter times.

but it does help against blur from camera shake.


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## tianxiaozhang (Oct 29, 2018)

Question: can (or does current) sensor stabilization have unique settings for each lens or camera motion?


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## mirage (Oct 29, 2018)

tianxiaozhang said:


> Question: can (or does current) sensor stabilization have unique settings for each lens or camera motion?



in-lens IS uses sensors/gyros to determine direction and amount of movements. Lens-specific actuators and algorithms move a lens group as needed to keep image centered.

in-body sensor IS does not have to be lens- or camera-specific. sensor input plus software that analyzes image from sensor in real time and determines actuator inputs to position sensor so that image stays centered on it. No matter, what lens may be attached to camera.

if lens has IS, some smart algorithms make sure the 2 systems work in sync and don't counteract each other.


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## canonmike (Oct 29, 2018)

KeithBreazeal said:


> I'll consider the jump to the "R" type series when it has IBIS, a minimum of 8 fps with AF, better buffering times, and a more reasonable button/control layout.


You might just be waiting awhile.


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## jolyonralph (Oct 29, 2018)

It's possible that IBIS would need to be disabled (automatically) with current lenses that have IS, unless both the lens and the body are capable of working together to control lens IS and body IBIS concurrently for best results.

To do that would probably be impossible via the EF mount as it is now (I don't believe it has any facility for IS-data communication) and would therefore rely on the RF mount. 

So. This means that flange distance has little to do with the eventual demise of the EF mount, and everything to do with the increased communication speed.


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## mirage (Oct 29, 2018)

jolyonralph said:


> So. This means that flange distance has little to do with the eventual demise of the EF mount, and everything to do with the increased communication speed.



i don't see anything that would support this conclusion. 

Faster communication is one important feature of the new RF mount. But definitely not the only or the most important one. Significantly "larger optical design space" thanks to RF mount parameters is even more important.


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## jolyonralph (Oct 29, 2018)

mirage said:


> i don't see anything that would support this conclusion.



Because you can almost rule out having dual IBIS & lens IS on the EF mount (it can be done, but not optimally) so if Canon were to launch a camera with IBIS it would only work in combined IBIS/IS mode with RF lenses, not with adapted EF glass. Which means the next generation of in-lens IS will require RF - and probably the reason that Canon have been indecisive about whether to do the 24-70 f/2.8L IS in the EF mount (with old style IS) or just on RF.


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## 3kramd5 (Oct 31, 2018)

mirage said:


> in-body sensor IS does not have to be lens- or camera-specific. sensor input plus software that analyzes image from sensor in real time and determines actuator inputs to position sensor so that image stays centered on it. No matter, what lens may be attached to camera.



Canon’s M50 system works with image analysis to determine cropping in a frame by frame basis.

The IBIS systems in Olympus, Sony, etc. measure camera movement with gyros and compensate with sensor actuation. That’s why they need to know the focal length and focus distance of the lens to work properly.


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