# Canon EOS 6D in October? [CR1]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 9, 2012)

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<strong>Not for Photokina?


</strong>Over at [<a href="http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_6d.html" target="_blank">NL</a>], they mention that the next full frame DSLR from Canon won’t come until October. That camera will be the EOS 6D, a smaller full frame camera that looks like the 7D at first glance. The camera is reported to come in at 22mp, the same as the current 5D Mark III.</p>
<p>As we’ve mentioned before, with the brisk sales of the <a href="http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/583953-REG/Canon_2764B003_EOS_5D_Mark_II.html/BI/2466/kbid/3296" target="_blank">5D Mark II</a>, Canon is already the number 1 seller in the $2000 full frame camera market.</p>
<p>No DSLR for Photokina? It’s possible. The last time I was there, Canon was only showing off the 60D. A solid camera, but hardly a show stopper.</p>
<p>Source: [<a href="http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_6d.html" target="_blank">NL</a>]</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
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## Haydn1971 (Aug 9, 2012)

9D surely ? Plus a 5DX ?


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## DzPhotography (Aug 9, 2012)

Still doubting between this one and a 5DMkIII as back-up cam... ???


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## BXL (Aug 9, 2012)

Canon Rumors said:


> No DSLR for Photokina? It’s possible. The last time I was there, Canon was only showing off the 60D. A solid camera, but hardly a show stopper.


Canon has five cameras for Photokina: 1D X, 1D C, 5D III, 650D and the EOS M. Should be enough as show stopper.


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## dstppy (Aug 9, 2012)

BXL said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > No DSLR for Photokina? It’s possible. The last time I was there, Canon was only showing off the 60D. A solid camera, but hardly a show stopper.
> ...



I agree; there's so many GOOD cameras out there that, as long as you're trying, you can take great pictures.

My only personal complaint is that all of their "current" DSLRs should have been 'refreshed' with minor software tweaks and newer DigicV processors. 

Look at apple: they replaced the iPhone4 with the 4s in about 15 months, addressing almost every complaint (that they intended to) and people were freaking out that it wasn't a totally new device. People are expecting way too much of companies that are really delivering in a meaningful way.


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## RC (Aug 9, 2012)

;D If this thing has the specs I want (which I have already posted on CR), I will preorder. Smaller body? Don't go smaller than the 7D, keep same build and button layout as 7/5D bodies. Seems it would be difficult to squeeze a FF sensor and pentaprism into a smaller body anyway.


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## mitch.o (Aug 9, 2012)

I for one am very interested in this camera. I have a t2i and a 24-105. I've been wanting to upgrade to ff for a while now and I was planning on buying a 5d mkii. Until I heard about this new ff that is. If this new "6D" is a reasonable upgrade to the mark ii I won't hesitate to buy.


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## SwampYankee (Aug 9, 2012)

"I agree; there's so many GOOD cameras out there that, as long as you're trying, you can take great pictures."

It is true. I so want this rumor to be true today, but I will patiently wait and improve my skills. I will go home this evening and have a tough conversation with my 50D, explain she must carry on for a few more months.  Of course the toughest conversation is still to come. When I purchase my next Canon body, my 50 D is going to have to break up with its 24-105 F4L


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## dtaylor (Aug 9, 2012)

22 MP? YAWN! I'll wait for a FF that actually has a visible difference from current top of the line APS-C bodies at typical ISOs.

And if the wait is too long, I'll get a D800.


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## wockawocka (Aug 9, 2012)

A cheap full frame body?

Careful Canon, be real careful.


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## pedro (Aug 9, 2012)

wockawocka said:


> A cheap full frame body?
> 
> Careful Canon, be real careful.



Not knowing the intention of your comment, I hope they do so. DSLRs were FF when I entered photography some 30 years back. There were moderately priced bodies and higher priced bodies. So, if they get back to more affordable FF bodies after all this time, I appreciate that. The chance with that will be: 6D, 5D, (a gap for some other type), 1D. It will cover everyone's needs. Along with 60D and 7D- type cams it's gonna be a blast.
I am really happy, when these rumors really materialize although I am opting for a 5Diii, due to its character as an allround tool.


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## Marine03 (Aug 9, 2012)

I'm really hoping when they say 7D style body, they mean the pop up flash and metal body with weather sealing. I was hoping for 5FPS or so but that would be too close to the 5D3 but I rarely use burst anyway.... I'm just a spec snob.


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## tomscott (Aug 9, 2012)

Something similar to the 5D MKII with better AF would be more than enough for most just a slight upgrade would make the camera much more useful!

The 1DX 18mp sensor (keeps the MP lower than the 5D MKIII, 7D body and sealing, 7D 19af autofocus system so not to compete with the 5D MKIII and 4.5fps to be useful but not compete with the 5D MKIII think that would be a great start point.

Possibly a touch screen? Similar to the 650D that you can turn on and off to suit both types of people. Must be high res too. Similar video to 5D MKIII.


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## tome223 (Aug 9, 2012)

I have a 60d and have been looking to upgrade to a ff the past several months and am going to wait on this 6d opposed to getting a 5d ii. Specs for the 6d look good and I don't mind if 6d has build of a 60d and lacks a magnesium alloy body. 

One lingering point I'd like to make. Going off today's price for 5d ii and 5d iii kits with 24-105l lens on b and h: the 24-105 is only $620 more than the 5d ii body and $835 more than the 5d iii body. I hope canon sells the 24-105 as the kit lens with the 6d for around $700 extra above the price of the body but maybe that is too much to wish! Thoughts?


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## pedro (Aug 9, 2012)

tomscott said:


> Something similar to the 5D MKII with better AF would be more than enough for most just a slight upgrade would make the camera much more useful!
> 
> The 1DX 18mp sensor (keeps the MP lower than the 5D MKIII, 7D body and sealing, 7D 19af autofocus system so not to compete with the 5D MKIII and 4.5fps to be useful but not compete with the 5D MKIII think that would be a great start point.
> 
> Possibly a touch screen? Similar to the 650D that you can turn on and off to suit both types of people. Must be high res too. Similar video to 5D MKIII.



The 1DX sensor and 51k native ISO (without extensions) plus "7D body and sealing, 7D 19af autofocus system". How about that at 2k USD?


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## tomscott (Aug 9, 2012)

pedro said:


> tomscott said:
> 
> 
> > Something similar to the 5D MKII with better AF would be more than enough for most just a slight upgrade would make the camera much more useful!
> ...



Ye thats fair, I think no more than £1800 or $2000 Although I have a feeling It will be a lot more in the UK.


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## hmmm (Aug 9, 2012)

*I doubt they would miss Photokina*

If Canon has the product ready to announce, it does not make sense that they would skip Photokina with it. The Nikon D600 will be out there; it would make sense for Canon to be able to talk about their lower-priced FF as well --- unless the Nikon D600 will smoke the Canon 6D so completely that Canon wants to avoid putting a spotlight on it. 

I think the D600 will be better spec'd, but the 6D (or whatever it will be called) should be a good camera as well. It just doesn't make sense for Canon to take a walk on Photokina as far as this new model is concerned, even allowing for the declining importance of trade shows in the age of the internet.

Two thoughts: maybe the real situation is that the announcement will be at or near Photokina, but the rumor source meant to say that availability will be in October -- that Canon is ready to put this camera in the pipeline quickly. (That should give it a big advantage over the D600 -- good luck getting one before mid-2013!)

or... There is something even bigger to announce that Canon wants to have the full spotlight! A new 70D with new sensor technology, perhaps?


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## mitch.o (Aug 9, 2012)

*Re: I doubt they would miss Photokina*



hmmm said:


> If Canon has the product ready to announce, it does not make sense that they would skip Photokina with it. The Nikon D600 will be out there; it would make sense for Canon to be able to talk about their lower-priced FF as well --- unless the Nikon D600 will smoke the Canon 6D so completely that Canon wants to avoid putting a spotlight on it.
> 
> I think the D600 will be better spec'd, but the 6D (or whatever it will be called) should be a good camera as well. It just doesn't make sense for Canon to take a walk on Photokina as far as this new model is concerned, even allowing for the declining importance of trade shows in the age of the internet.
> 
> ...



though canon doesn't always put things "in the pipeline" quickly. Look at the new mirror-less M camera. It won't be out until October. This being said I hope the new "6D" DOES come out in October like this rumor stated...


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## c.d.embrey (Aug 9, 2012)

The *POS* 60D stopped me from buying addional Canon cameras/lenses  I'm impressed with the ergonomics of my Nikon body, and the IQ of Nikon lenses  

I'm interested in seeing how the Canon 6D and Nikon D600 compare. I have a feeling that I'll be adding a D600 and the 135mm f/2.0D DC to my inventory.


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## dstppy (Aug 9, 2012)

c.d.embrey said:


> The *POS* 60D stopped me from buying addional Canon cameras/lenses  I'm impressed with the ergonomics of my Nikon body, and the IQ of Nikon lenses
> 
> I'm interested in seeing how the Canon 6D and Nikon D600 compare. I have a feeling that I'll be adding a D600 and the 135mm f/2.0D DC to my inventory.



Mine burst into flames after it came out of the box.


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## briansquibb (Aug 9, 2012)

pedro said:


> tomscott said:
> 
> 
> > Something similar to the 5D MKII with better AF would be more than enough for most just a slight upgrade would make the camera much more useful!
> ...



Must have better focusing than the 7D


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## KyleSTL (Aug 9, 2012)

RC said:


> Seems it would be difficult to squeeze a FF sensor and pentaprism into a smaller body anyway.


The 35mm Canon EOS Rebel T2 was:
130 x 90 x 64mm
The 1100D (T3) is:
130 x 100 x 65mm

I see no reason Canon couldn't fit a FF sensor into a 60D body (145 x 106 x 79mm). 

Heck, the APS-C 7D:
148 x 111 x 74mm
is larger the the Elan 7N:
147 x 103 x 69mm


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## XanuFoto (Aug 9, 2012)

Does anyone know if the D800 is outselling the 5D MK III. Because I do not find any reports suggesting that.


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## pakosouthpark (Aug 9, 2012)

october only?????????????

come on make it sept!! because im not gonna buy on their first month.. there are always problems with the 1st batch of cameras now..!


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## c.d.embrey (Aug 9, 2012)

KyleSTL said:


> Heck, the APS-C 7D:
> 148 x 111 x 74mm
> is larger the the Elan 7N:
> 147 x 103 x 69mm



For those that don't know, the Canon Elan 7n was a *FullFrameFilm* camera. And had to fit a 35mm film cassette inside the body at one end and a film take-up reel at the other  I own one, great camera


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## pakosouthpark (Aug 9, 2012)

*Re: I doubt they would miss Photokina*



dilbert said:


> mitch.o said:
> 
> 
> > hmmm said:
> ...



forget christmas.. this camera the sooner it comes out canon will gain from that! just needs to be top notch! christmas it will be for when the camera will have a lower price!


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 9, 2012)

Keith at NL has had predictions of a 6D for a while now. The 6D sounds reasonable, a FF body that sits between 7D and 5D MK III. Canon needs to stop producing the old 21mp sensors and standardize on the new and much improved 22mp sensor which already has been optomized for the DigicV processor.
I'd expect to see fewer bells and whistles, lower top ISO, fewer AF points and simpler AF without the separate Digic IV to run it. For many, it will be a huge step up, and much more affordable.
I even expect a touch screen, given the market these are aimed at. Hybrid AF like the T4i would be nice, but if it requires a different sensor, its not going to happen..


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## unfocused (Aug 9, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> Keith at NL has had predictions of a 6D for a while now. The 6D sounds reasonable, a FF body that sits between 7D and 5D MK III. Canon needs to stop producing the old 21mp sensors and standardize on the new and much improved 22mp sensor which already has been optomized for the DigicV processor.
> I'd expect to see fewer bells and whistles, lower top ISO, fewer AF points and simpler AF without the separate Digic IV to run it. For many, it will be a huge step up, and much more affordable.
> I even expect a touch screen, given the market these are aimed at. Hybrid AF like the T4i would be nice, but if it requires a different sensor, its not going to happen..



All sounds reasonable. I see the 6D and 70D as essentially the same camera with different size sensors; and the 7DII and 5DIII also similarly spec'd with different size sensors (sorry, no more APS-H). Saves development and possibly production costs, while giving consumers the maximum choice.

Only thing missing is the 5D HD (apprx 46 mp) which would be the same as the 5DIII but with a high-density sensor. Same price point as the 5DIII, and essentially the same camera, except with slower frame rate and lower maximum ISO. 

We make the mistake of looking for a one-camera solution to our needs. Canon wants to sell us all at least two bodies.


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## RC (Aug 9, 2012)

unfocused said:


> ...
> We make the mistake of looking for a one-camera solution to our needs. Canon wants to sell us all at least two bodies.



Now that's hitting the nail on the head. Got my 7D, waiting to see which way to go for FF.


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## traveller (Aug 9, 2012)

One thing is for sure, Canon don't have the wiggle room in marketing terms versus Nikon when it comes to these rumoured 'budget' full frame cameras. They're kind of stuck with using the same 22MP sensor as the 5D MkIII, so there will have to be quite a bit of 'dumbing down' of the rest of the specifications to justify it's position below the 5D MkIII. 

What you're going to be looking at is probably the 60D body with a bigger prism (possibly retaining the flash) with the 7D af system. They might try and incorporate a bit more metal in the body shell (like the D7000) to inject a touch of high end feel without going for a full Mg alloy chassis. That's about all they can do without killing 5D MkIII sales; the question is will it be enough to go up against the D600?


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## Daniel Flather (Aug 9, 2012)

dstppy said:


> I agree; there's so many GOOD cameras out there that, as long as you're trying, you can take great pictures.



Yes, but good pictures had been captured since the beginning of photography.


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## kennephoto (Aug 9, 2012)

I suppose theres lots of new 5d2's for sale in the world still, what will happen to them if canon introduces a sexier cousin for a similar price? Poor 5d2's. I wonder if they would kit a 6d with the 24-105L or not??


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## Menace (Aug 9, 2012)

kennephoto said:


> I suppose theres lots of new 5d2's for sale in the world still, what will happen to them if canon introduces a sexier cousin for a similar price?



Those not needing a fast AF and sme newer bells and whistles will get a bargain on the outgoing 5dII


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## pakosouthpark (Aug 9, 2012)

kennephoto said:


> I suppose theres lots of new 5d2's for sale in the world still, what will happen to them if canon introduces a sexier cousin for a similar price? Poor 5d2's. I wonder if they would kit a 6d with the 24-105L or not??



actually a lot of shops don't have them anymore.. so they probably know..
and yes I guess that would be the kit lens


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## EvillEmperor (Aug 9, 2012)

I really don't see how you could make a full frame "starter" camera. Remove AF adjustments? Instead of releasing a new camera, why not just sell the 5D MK II for cheap?


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## Marine03 (Aug 9, 2012)

XanuFoto said:


> Does anyone know if the D800 is outselling the 5D MK III. Because I do not find any reports suggesting that.



I did see that on ZITE an ipad magazine that it had an article about Q1 profits for Nikon being either 5% or 5 million lower than what they had hoped for. It didn't have a break down per model but something isn't selling how they had hoped.


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## Britman (Aug 9, 2012)

EvillEmperor said:


> I really don't see how you could make a full frame "starter" camera. Remove AF adjustments? Instead of releasing a new camera, why not just sell the 5D MK II for cheap?



Have to agree, the tooling are already in place, perhaps just update the AF?


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## dstppy (Aug 10, 2012)

Daniel Flather said:


> dstppy said:
> 
> 
> > I agree; there's so many GOOD cameras out there that, as long as you're trying, you can take great pictures.
> ...


Yet basic novices have not. Thanks for taking it out of context 

"Yes, but" implies that you disagree with my post . . . so you think a new camera will make new, better pictures emerge, no?

Disclaimer: English is my first language.


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## jcs16 (Aug 10, 2012)

So it's going to be d600 vs 6d by christmas, battle of budget full frame  gonna be interesting for all of us


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## preppyak (Aug 10, 2012)

Britman said:


> EvillEmperor said:
> 
> 
> > I really don't see how you could make a full frame "starter" camera. Remove AF adjustments? Instead of releasing a new camera, why not just sell the 5D MK II for cheap?
> ...


Thing is, there is a point of diminishing returns there. Canon set up the 5dII to retail at $2700 originally, and then dropped it to $2499 for a while. Now its basically going for $2000 every place, what price would they have to drop it to to compete with a D600? If that price is $1750 or $1500, you have to imagine there is a point where the margins get so thin that they aren't making money. Plus, there's the theory of "newer is better" in the camera world. A 5-yr old design competing with Nikon's newest is not the way to snag new customers.

Plus, if the change the body to more plastic, it can make it cheaper. Likewise, making use of the 5dIII or 1dX sensor condenses that part of production. Right now, they have to actually produce 5dIIs as none of their current line uses any of its features. A frankenstein of current pieces is probably more cost effective.

Basically, they can't sell the 5dII at $2000 for the next 3 years...but a 6D they probably could, even if its only the minor upgrades mentioned


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## EOBeav (Aug 10, 2012)

Folks, if it's a 22M FF at ~2kUSD, you might want to be careful. They're going to have cut some corners somewhere, and you'll be wishing you'd bought the 5DmkII for essentially the same price. Get it while you can.


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## Marine03 (Aug 10, 2012)

I agree disagree with those who say why does Canon not just keep selling a 5 year old body? Because would you buy a 5 year old BMW when Mercedes is selling new cars for the same price? Sure both are nice cars, but there have been improvements over the last 5 years. I could almost promise that the 6D will be better than a 5D2 in every way. Better AF, Better metering, Sensor improvements maybe?, Better LCD, Faster FPS hopefully. Pop up flash.


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## dlleno (Aug 10, 2012)

RC said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



nice. what attracts me to the 5D3 is the fps and AF system, as the FF solution. But if your FF needs do not include action, then 6D. 

I'm one of those who sees value in the high-speed burst, no matter what body you are using - so a 4fps FF isn't attractive to me. 

what is the 2nd body Canon wants to sell to 1DX and 5D3 owners? A high performance crop body comes to mind, but it would have to produce convincingly better IQ in distance-constrained situations compared to just cropping the FF image in post to achieve equivalent FOV, a scenario where the 7D just barely edges out the 5D3.


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## briansquibb (Aug 10, 2012)

Marine03 said:


> I agree disagree with those who say why does Canon not just keep selling a 5 year old body? Because would you buy a 5 year old BMW when Mercedes is selling new cars for the same price? Sure both are nice cars, but there have been improvements over the last 5 years. I could almost promise that the 6D will be better than a 5D2 in every way. Better AF, Better metering, Sensor improvements maybe?, Better LCD, Faster FPS hopefully. Pop up flash.



Please - no pop up

Please - wireless yes

AF might be the 9pt

LCD will he latest

Same sensoring as 5DIII

1 card slot only

There has to be some differential between 5DIII and the 6D - of course it might be an APS-H version of the 5DIII ...


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Aug 10, 2012)

EvillEmperor said:


> I really don't see how you could make a full frame "starter" camera. Remove AF adjustments? Instead of releasing a new camera, why not just sell the 5D MK II for cheap?



I imagine it's more expensive to keep two FF sensor making lines going than to make a new camera using the 5D3 sensor.


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## EOBeav (Aug 10, 2012)

Marine03 said:


> I agree disagree with those who say why does Canon not just keep selling a 5 year old body? Because would you buy a 5 year old BMW when Mercedes is selling new cars for the same price? Sure both are nice cars, but there have been improvements over the last 5 years. I could almost promise that the 6D will be better than a 5D2 in every way. Better AF, Better metering, Sensor improvements maybe?, Better LCD, Faster FPS hopefully. Pop up flash.



Actually, if I was in the market for a nice car, but I didn't have the coin for a brand new one, I would probably go for that 5 y/o BMW and be completely content with it. I'll let somebody with a fatter wallet than I get that new Mercedes.

I love my 5DmkII. A replacement FF for ~$2kUSD is going to be something less. Better get your 5DmkII while you still can.


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## stipotle (Aug 10, 2012)

EOBeav said:


> Marine03 said:
> 
> 
> > I agree disagree with those who say why does Canon not just keep selling a 5 year old body? Because would you buy a 5 year old BMW when Mercedes is selling new cars for the same price? Sure both are nice cars, but there have been improvements over the last 5 years. I could almost promise that the 6D will be better than a 5D2 in every way. Better AF, Better metering, Sensor improvements maybe?, Better LCD, Faster FPS hopefully. Pop up flash.
> ...



Except you forget that in this scenario (Marine03 's point .. I think), Mercedes would be selling the new model for the same price as the 5 yr old BMW. No need for the fatter wallet. Or are you saying the 5 yr old BMW is better than the brand new equally priced Mercedes? .. This analogy confuses me now.
I like Audis better anyway.


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## nicku (Aug 10, 2012)

The 5D3 is not and will NOT be a best seller DSLR like was 5D2 in the past years; the reason is very simple.... the price.

So they will come with a cheaper (in my opinion only 1k cheaper FF or APS-H DSLR). There will certainly be a 3D, 6D, 9D or whatever they will call the camera. They will try to reclaim the 5D2 sales. Obviously today this will be much harder considering the price and features of Nikon D800 and D600.


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## mathino (Aug 10, 2012)

What do you think of something like this ? Ive found it on web.


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## pedro (Aug 10, 2012)

mathino said:


> What do you think of something like this ? Ive found it on web.



IF it's a fake, I guess it's a very good one 8) Time will tell. But according to your gear list...did you "visualize" your dream? LOL...

@nicku: "So they will come with a cheaper (in my opinion only 1k cheaper FF or APS-H DSLR)."
Only my two cents: a 2.5k USD cam will unlikely be a plastic body then. 18/22 MP, iso 51k. AF same as 5D3 (?) or slightly lesser...Well, I don't know too much about tech. No trolling intended.

Cheers, Pedro.


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## nicku (Aug 10, 2012)

mathino said:


> What do you think of something like this ? Ive found it on web.



Photoshop.....


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## mathino (Aug 10, 2012)

pedro said:


> mathino said:
> 
> 
> > What do you think of something like this ? Ive found it on web.
> ...



I dunno if its fake. Ive just found it on some chinese page and tried to run it through Image Forensics - looks real but, sure, could be fake. And according to this pic, it looks 7D-like.

Yes, I want to upgrade to FF, but I can wait - no rush here


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## pedro (Aug 10, 2012)

mathino said:


> pedro said:
> 
> 
> > mathino said:
> ...


+1 Ready to go 5D3. But no rush here as well. Chinese page sounds promising... 8) 7D-similarities would match with earlier rumors...from NL:
http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_6d.html
"Design closer to 7D than 5D3 (smaller and with flash)
7D style AF system (19 pt) and VF LCD
7D metering
Single Digic 5+
3.9 fps
3 inch LCD
51200 max ISO
sub - $2000 price point at introduction"


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## mathino (Aug 10, 2012)

pedro said:


> +1 Ready to go 5D3. But no rush here as well. Chinese page sounds promising... 8) 7D-similarities would match with earlier rumors...



5D Mk III is too expensive for me (I can buy it but cant justify that cost). I guess we will see some info surface soon. My bet is body simmilar to 7D (metring, build, AF) with 22 or 18 mpx sensor.


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## pedro (Aug 10, 2012)

mathino said:


> pedro said:
> 
> 
> > +1 Ready to go 5D3. But no rush here as well. Chinese page sounds promising... 8) 7D-similarities would match with earlier rumors...
> ...



Costwise in the same boat. I hardly commercialize my photography. What would be the max in shutter actuations? 100k? Hope they'd give it a 150k, especially if the price tag could be slightly higher as expected, according to Canon's pricing policy these last months...


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## freeflyboy64 (Aug 10, 2012)

Thanks Admin for all these rumors, but...

I don't understand why Canon doesn't communicate more about the next products. OK, we are supposed not to be concerned, but yes, I would like to know which DSLR will be mine in the next few months !

EOS 6D : buy a FF only because it's a FF ??
What about aps-c sensors (for telephotos) ?
What about a poor fps ? Is 4.5 fps usable ? I don't think so... If you really want to use a quik fps to get the right moment, then you need at least 7 fps or more. EOS 7D is a good exemple.
And for those who need quick fps and can't afford a 1Dx... what do I have to do ??

Wait a supposed next 7D II ? Or 70D ?? Can Canon tell us "Yes, the 7D line is NOT discontinued" ?
When do we have serious rumors about the next DX line ?
OK, I can wait for a few months, my 7D is OK... but I would like to know if there will be a "serious" DX, or if I have to save money for a 5D III (6 fps only if good conditions is not enough, so 5 fps max in poor light)

Sorry for my poor english, i come from France...


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## mathino (Aug 10, 2012)

pedro said:


> Costwise in the same boat. I hardly commercialize my photography. What would be the max in shutter actuations? 100k? Hope they'd give it a 150k, especially if the price tag could be slightly higher as expected, according to Canon's pricing policy these last months...



Same as me  Im just taking it as a hobby, not a profession. Well, shutter actuations - I can live with 100k. With my 450D Ive taken +- 80k in 4 years and its still shooting ok. What I think is they need to replace 5D Mk II (sure, its still great camera) as their cash cow - and with those rumored specs it could be a damn good seller.


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## facedodge (Aug 10, 2012)

These comments are ridiculous. It appears everyone wants/expect Canon to produce a camera that is equal to or better than the 5D Mark III but for half the price.


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## kennephoto (Aug 10, 2012)

I saw that 6d picture and I've seen a 9d picture so I'm thinking it's a fake. But I'm not gonna be surprised if a 6d came out, I just want it to outperform the 5d2 and be bundled with 24-105 that's all I want oh and before october !


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## freeflyboy64 (Aug 10, 2012)

facedodge said:


> These comments are ridiculous. It appears everyone wants/expect Canon to produce a camera that is equal to or better than the 5D Mark III but for half the price.



You may be right and... not completely.
Fore sure a 6D will not be a 5D MkIII, that's normal for half the price.
That's why I wish a "top-of-the-line" DX body as a replacement of the 7D. Yes, it will be cheaper that the 5DIII, and i accept it will not have the same IQ, same AF may be, but it should be better on others points.
Same thing for the 6D, cheaper so not so good, normal...


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## mjbehnke (Aug 10, 2012)

dilbert said:


> facedodge said:
> 
> 
> > These comments are ridiculous. It appears everyone wants/expect Canon to produce a camera that is equal to or better than the 5D Mark III but for half the price.
> ...



+100 If it focuses accurate and takes photos, I'm good. I don't shoot video, so they could cut that out all together and make a nice functioning photo camera.


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## kennephoto (Aug 10, 2012)

Why not copy the 5d2 but add better AF and if they make it photo camera and drop video then it better be sub 2k dollar camera.


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## M.ST (Aug 10, 2012)

I am not interested in a entry level FF camera.

Want something additional between the 5D Mark III and the 1D X. Perfect for me is a FF in a 5D Mark III body with a few more megapixels (24 or 24), better image quality in the range ISO 50 to ISO 3200, AF like the 1D X and two of the the 5D Mark III processors (8 pictures per second in RAW/JPG and more pictures in continues shooting).


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## drmikeinpdx (Aug 10, 2012)

Anyone who is concerned about autofocus performance should read this article by Roger Cicala:

http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/08/autofocus-reality-part-3b-canon-cameras

It tells us why the autofocus performance of the 5D III and the 1DX are so superior to previous models. It's not just more cross-type sensors. Briefly, Canon has finally gone to a true closed loop system. Previous autofocus systems are now obsolete for serious work, in my opinion, and it's about time! I am so sick of messing around with inaccurate and unpredictable autofocus. Having to send lenses and bodies in for focus calibration all the time is ridiculous.

Who knows which system the rumored 6D will get? I know I will wait to find out before I make my next FF purchase. I don't need many of the features the 5D III offers, but I must have that autofocus system! LOL


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## tbisu (Aug 10, 2012)

+1. Thanks for the link - very interesting read.

We've had a terrible time getting consistently sharp, focused images with our 7D. Just got it back from the service center today and hoping the issues are resolved.


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## c.d.embrey (Aug 10, 2012)

Marine03 said:


> I did see that on ZITE an ipad magazine that it had an article about Q1 profits for Nikon being either 5% or 5 million lower than what they had hoped for. It didn't have a break down per model but something isn't selling how they had hoped.



Nikon sales are meeting their predictions. *The lose comes from the value of the US Dollar and Euro going down vs the Japanese Yen.*


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## drmikeinpdx (Aug 10, 2012)

tbisu said:


> We've had a terrible time getting consistently sharp, focused images with our 7D. Just got it back from the service center today and hoping the issues are resolved.



I feel your pain, tbisu! It took me a year to get my 7D to work with a zoom lens. Not only was the camera way out of calibration, but the lens was too. In fact, the lens had to go in three times to Canon service before they figured out that it had a loose zoom assembly. It was the EFS 15-55 F2.8. A nice lens when it works.


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## KyleSTL (Aug 10, 2012)

c.d.embrey said:


> Marine03 said:
> 
> 
> > I did see that on ZITE an ipad magazine that it had an article about Q1 profits for Nikon being either 5% or 5 million lower than what they had hoped for. It didn't have a break down per model but something isn't selling how they had hoped.
> ...



Then how is Canon doing so well (financially), as both companies are based in Japan?

*Nikon Q1 financial results: net profit fell by almost 50%*
http://nikonrumors.com/2012/08/08/nikon-q1-financial-results-net-profit-fell-by-almost-50.aspx/

A 50% loss is huge, and I believe cannot be attributed to currency exchange rates alone.


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## pedro (Aug 10, 2012)

drmikeinpdx said:


> Anyone who is concerned about autofocus performance should read this article by Roger Cicala:
> 
> http://www.lensrentals.com/blog/2012/08/autofocus-reality-part-3b-canon-cameras
> 
> ...



Would be nice to add 5Diii AF to it. Doubt it, though. So: 5D3 then...


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## c.d.embrey (Aug 10, 2012)

KyleSTL said:


> c.d.embrey said:
> 
> 
> > Marine03 said:
> ...



Please go back and re-read the Nikon Rumors post. 
http://nikonrumors.com/2012/08/08/nikon-q1-financial-results-net-profit-fell-by-almost-50.aspx/


> Sales increased 5.6% to 259.43 billion yen



*Nikon had a Sales Increase of 5.6%!!!*


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## RGomezPhotos (Aug 10, 2012)

SwampYankee said:


> "I agree; there's so many GOOD cameras out there that, as long as you're trying, you can take great pictures."
> 
> It is true. I so want this rumor to be true today, but I will patiently wait and improve my skills. I will go home this evening and have a tough conversation with my 50D, explain she must carry on for a few more months.  Of course the toughest conversation is still to come. When I purchase my next Canon body, my 50 D is going to have to break up with its 24-105 F4L



I just received my new 5D Mark II a few days ago. I have my first DSLR which is also a 50D which I absolutely love. You can get TONS of great work with the 50D. But using Zeiss lenses, I always had to post-sharpen my images. Now with the 5D, nope. They come out perfectly sharp right out of the camera. The image quality is definitely a step above the 50D. ISO performance, even though it's only 1-stop better than the 50D, is better at all levels too.

I think Canon made a HUGE mistake in not making the 5D Mark III not have a user-replaceable view screen. LOTS of people shoot manually with different lenses. The 5D Mark III would've been perfect for me if it wasn't for that. I saw someone using one at a fashion show I was at... It was fairly dark and he wasn't using a flash... ISO performance is freaky-good on that thing! Too bad he had it in 'P' mode... Poser


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## Menace (Aug 11, 2012)

kennephoto said:


> Why not copy the 5d2 but add better AF and if they make it photo camera and drop video then it better be sub 2k dollar camera.



It's unlikely Canon will drop video from any of the dslr bodies - it may appear to be a step backwards to many consumers.


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## x-vision (Aug 11, 2012)

Sorry to break it to you, guys, but the 6D rumor is just wishful thinking .

Canon has both the high and low ends covered with new models: new 1DX, new 5DIII, new Rebel, new EOS-M system. 
Together with a discounted 5DII, a discounted 7D, and a discounted 60D, they are all set for the holiday shopping season this year.

The 70D will be the next camera from Canon - likely in Jan/Feb next year.

An entry level FF camera from Canon is at least a year away.
That is, if Canon is even planning such a camera in the first place.

Look at what Nikon has done in preparation for the D600 launch: 
They've launched multiple cheap FF primes and a cheap FF normal zoom. 

And in Canon-land, it's been one expensive L lens after another ... for the past 9 years.
Except for the 40mm pancake, of course. 

So, based on the recent lens releases, guess which company is planning an entry level FF camera ... and which one is not 8).


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## KyleSTL (Aug 11, 2012)

c.d.embrey said:


> KyleSTL said:
> 
> 
> > c.d.embrey said:
> ...



So you believe that the Yen-USD exchange rate has nearly 60% to account for the the entire loss? 
https://www.google.com/finance?chdnp=1&chdd=1&chds=1&chdv=1&chvs=Linear&chdeh=0&chfdeh=0&chdet=1344646982655&chddm=219553&q=CURRENCY:USDJPY&ntsp=0

Looks to me since January 1 the rate has gone from 1 USD = 84 Yen peak to 1 USD = 78 Yen current. That is a change of 7%. There is a great contributing factor other than exchange rate, surely.


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## briansquibb (Aug 11, 2012)

c.d.embrey said:


> *Nikon had a Sales Increase of 5.6%!!!*



You are confusing takings vs profit


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## c.d.embrey (Aug 11, 2012)

KyleSTL said:


> c.d.embrey said:
> 
> 
> > KyleSTL said:
> ...



From Thom Hogan's blog *By Thom* http://bythom.com


> *On August 8th Thom Hogan wrote:* Meanwhile in Japan, Nikon corporate announced their first quarter financial results with absolutely no surprises. Overall profits were a bit lower than originally forecast, attributed to increased sales costs and yen appreciation. In terms of cameras and lenses, they sold what they said they were going to sell and haven't changed their estimates for the full fiscal year, so I'm not going to roll additional commentary on that from what I did at their last financial disclosure.



Thom Hogan is an author and photographer. He also blogs about Nikon cameras http://bythom.com and Mirrorless cameras http://www.sansmirror.com His sites are News & Reviews sites, NOT Rumor sites.

Have a nice day


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## KyleSTL (Aug 13, 2012)

c.d.embrey said:


> From Thom Hogan's blog *By Thom* http://bythom.com
> 
> 
> > *On August 8th Thom Hogan wrote:* Meanwhile in Japan, Nikon corporate announced their first quarter financial results with absolutely no surprises. Overall profits were a bit lower than originally forecast, attributed to increased sales costs and yen appreciation. In terms of cameras and lenses, they sold what they said they were going to sell and haven't changed their estimates for the full fiscal year, so I'm not going to roll additional commentary on that from what I did at their last financial disclosure.
> ...



My apologies, I'm an engineer, not a finance expert. I guess if Nikon's gross margins are fairly small, a few percent change in currency exchange rates could (and did) kill over half their profit. I wonder what Canon's quarterly numbers look like (I haven't seen them, and I'm too lazy to look up if they have been released). Sorry to start a flame war on a topic about which I should be better informed.


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## preppyak (Aug 13, 2012)

Menace said:


> It's unlikely Canon will drop video from any of the dslr bodies - it may appear to be a step backwards to many consumers.


It also likely wouldn't drop the price of the camera, especially a true 5dII successor, since it would have a lot fewer buyers. There was a forum poll a while back, 40% of users wouldn't buy a video-less DSLR at all, and 30% would only buy it if it saved them significantly (30%+) off the price. It was a small sample, maybe 100 people, but, if the video features are even half as popular (so 1/3 of users want them), it means a video-less DSLR has to cost Canon a LOT less to make. Or, they have to charge more for it.

So yeah, I can't see video going away pretty much ever...I can just see Canon not doing much to improve it in their non-cine cameras


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## dlleno (Aug 13, 2012)

x-vision said:


> Sorry to break it to you, guys, but the 6D rumor is just wishful thinking .
> 
> Canon has both the high and low ends covered with new models: new 1DX, new 5DIII, new Rebel, new EOS-M system.
> Together with a discounted 5DII, a discounted 7D, and a discounted 60D, they are all set for the holiday shopping season this year.
> ...



"set for the high and low ends" -- agreed, except that there is no pro crop body (time will tell if this is deliberate or not). That aside, canon is still quite weak in two areas it seems to me. 

1. The 60D may be discounted but it takes only a slighly clever customer to figure out how old it is. 

2. In the advanced crop body space there is nothing, save the 7D which is (slightly) older than the discontinued 1D4. The 7D firmware udpate may be an attempt to squeeze one more drop out of this platform but imho all this does is make existing 7D owners happier and does little to make it attractive for holiday shoppers who know how old it is. 

I want to know what Canon expects 1DX and 5D3 owners to puchase as a second body. right now there are no attractive options -- for new purchases I mean. If they don't want to loose holiday revenue they will have to either deliver or entice people to wait until after christmas to buy. and it better be something more attractive than a T4i in a 7D body. 

It will be interesting to see if and when Canon makes a move in these areas.


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## Musouka (Aug 17, 2012)

It might have been wishful thinking a while ago but ever since the Nikon D600 surfaced in the rumorsphere, it has become more or less a necessity lest Nikon conquered the market.

I personally hope that Canon takes some of the bells and whistles from the latest 650D/T4i and put them in this new body. Things like an articulating touchscreen, continuous AF in video and stereo mic. Put the whole thing in a package similar to the 7D with similar weather sealing and sell it. Granted, this might make the camera superior to the 5DIII in video (if they ended up having the same sensor) but will differentiate the two bodies.

Speaking of the Nikon D600, it is now rumored to include a 51-point AF system instead of the 39-point AF originally rumored. If true, then this makes me wonder if Canon can get away with a 7D AF? Maybe a few modification or a new AF between the 19-point AF and the 63-point AF would do.... perhaps something from the old 1D series (if it fits the smaller packaging, that is).


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## mathino (Aug 17, 2012)

Musouka said:


> I personally hope that Canon takes some of the bells and whistles from the latest 650D/T4i and put them in this new body. Things like an articulating touchscreen, continuous AF in video and stereo mic. Put the whole thing in a package similar to the 7D with similar weather sealing and sell it. Granted, this might make the camera superior to the 5DIII in video (if they ended up having the same sensor) but will differentiate the two bodies.


I agree that touch "rotating-thing" is what Canon could use - but I doubt that, well, if this body has to fit between 5 and 7 series (mag-alloy body and some weather sealing).

As for continuous AF in video - that would require redesign of FF sensor - which means added R&D costs whish results in higher price.

...also this new body with all features you mentioned (mag-alloy, wheater sealing, flippy thing, touchscreen, dual mics) - it would be better in some way that 5D Mk III. No way that Canon would make such product.



> Speaking of the Nikon D600, it is now rumored to include a 51-point AF system instead of the 39-point AF originally rumored. If true, then this makes me wonder if Canon can get away with a 7D AF? Maybe a few modification or a new AF between the 19-point AF and the 63-point AF would do.... perhaps something from the old 1D series (if it fits the smaller packaging, that is).



As for AF: Have you read all info regarding rumored Nikon AF ? That rumored AF would have 9 cross type points ?

Yes, 7D AF has "just" 19 points. The truth is they are all cross type (which means more precise). So yes, giving 7D AF makes sense. They could also re-use 1D Mk IV AF (and keep f/8 possible) - which has 39 cross-type points (and that would attract lots of people).


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## Musouka (Aug 18, 2012)

I'm just trying to picture what the product roadmap would look like.

As it is now, the 650D/T4i has taken some features from the 60D and added some new stuff. This means that the 70D should move up into the slot of the 7D or just utilize the 60D body and add all the new technology from the 650D/T4i and the AF from the 7D and maybe use a slightly better body construction. So I was thinking that the 6D would share a similar body design with 70D but add the FF sensor and some other minor improvements for double the price (around $1000-1100 for the 70D and $2000-2200 for the 6D). Maybe Canon will compromise weather-sealing a bit (something similar to Nikon D7000?) to maintain a lower price point.

It might be wishful thinking but it makes sense to me. Will it cannibalize the sales of the 5DIII? Maybe. By the same token, shouldn't the 650D/T4i cannibalize the sales of the 60D and the 7D? I think the 5DIII would still have enough differentiating factors like a bigger body, better weather sealing, superior AF, faster FPS, bigger buffer and CF+SD if Canon made the 6D use SD only. The video features (especially if Canon ended up developing some Hybrid AF like the Rebel's) might be better than the 5DIII but that might be an opportunity for Canon to capture some of the 5D2 crowd who are mainly interested in video and finds the 5DIII to be too expensive).

I realize that the Nikon 39-point AF only has 9 cross type points. I was talking about the rumor that says it will have a 51-point (15 cross type point) AF similar to the D300, D800 & D4. Would Canon be content with just the 7D AF or will they up their game. In any case, the latest D600 rumor doesn't seem likely as people have pointed out that the screenshot comes from D800(E) manual and not really related the D600.


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## crasher8 (Aug 18, 2012)

Help me out here. 

Isn't the desire for FF MAINLY a stills desire? I hear about a lot of wishes for video features, articulating screen, continuous AF etc. Isn't the T4i fulfilling those wishes at a much lower price point I'm not advocating the new entry level FF body NOT have video but I can't see why it should be feature rich. Especially if it is supposed to fill a price point below the Mk3. I know that the software side of video won't increase the price, that's a given but hardware certainly will. 

This new body will not have that many bells and whistles we all know but IQ and resolution is typically a priority in FF bodies and something has to give for it to be entry level, not having too many video bells and whistles would be a starting point if you ask me. Other things:

Single CF card
partial weather sealing
No pop up flash (wouldn't that save money?)


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## DB (Aug 18, 2012)

crasher8 said:


> Help me out here.
> 
> Isn't the desire for FF MAINLY a stills desire? I hear about a lot of wishes for video features, articulating screen, continuous AF etc. Isn't the T4i fulfilling those wishes at a much lower price point I'm not advocating the new entry level FF body NOT have video but I can't see why it should be feature rich. Especially if it is supposed to fill a price point below the Mk3. I know that the software side of video won't increase the price, that's a given but hardware certainly will.
> 
> ...



No, not really. The most popular HD DSLR is the Canon 5D2, precisely because it has a FF sensor with larger pixels than most APS-C sensors, and has better low-light performance (thus better for shooting video indoors).

The difference in surface area (SIZE) between the APS-C sized sensor in say the 7D and the FF one in the 5D is enormous, as the FF one is 2.5x larger (that's the difference between 36 x 24 mm vs 22.3 x 14.9 mm). That adds up to a whole lot more IQ when you have a FF sensor with 864 sq.mm vs a crop-sensor with a surface area of just 332 sq.mm


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## crasher8 (Aug 18, 2012)

Gotcha however it seems to me that the majority of people I read posting about the new entry level FF are stills shooters. 
Is anyone with me in thinking that to keep down costs on tooling a new body you leave off the articulating screen?


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## Musouka (Aug 18, 2012)

My idea is all about the continuation... if equipped with many of the same features as the 650D/T4i and, decidedly, the 70D, the 6D would be a more natural continuation and upgrade path for enthusiasts as opposed to the pro-sumer 5DIII. They would feel right at home. The articulating screen would give it an advantage over the D600 and doesn't appear to cost that much extra (if anything it makes the camera less sealed).

Now, whether Canon is interested in this way of thinking remains to be seen. Maybe they are or maybe they will think the risk of cannibalizing the sales of the 5DIII is too great.


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## RC (Aug 18, 2012)

crasher8 said:


> Gotcha however it seems to me that the majority of people I read posting about the new entry level FF are stills shooters.
> Is anyone with me in thinking that to keep down costs on tooling a new body you leave off the articulating screen?



I think it's the other way around. I'm more inclined to think a body with a articulating screen would be less expensive because I believe articulating screens will only be added to plastic and less sealed bodies. 

Come on Canon, give us a new FF mag & WS body (and without the articulating screen).


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## crasher8 (Aug 19, 2012)

I would hardly call the 5D3 prosumer. I think the gray area body where lines are blurred is the 7D.


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