# *BUSTED* 5D Mark III & 5D X Specs?



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 19, 2012)

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<strong>BUSTED?

</strong>Simonxu11 on our forum busted this one pretty quickly. It appears at least one of these spec lists appeared last May on <a href="http://www.cameragearguide.com/3395/rumor-canon-eos-5d-mark-iii-released-in-may-for-canon-expo-2011-in-shanghai-china-we-doubt-it/">Camera Gear Guide</a>.</p>
<p><em>thanks Simon</em></p>
<p>The split in the line is still something that has come from a few places. The most common resolution numbers for each camera are 22mp and 34mp. Again, everyone is pointing to two full frame cameras under the 1D X.</p>
<p><strong>New Specs?

</strong>The following specs have shown up on a Chinese web store. How factual it is, I am unsure. Some of the specs I’ve seen, others I haven’t. However, if there’s a split of the 5D line, and all signs point that way, some specs may be getting mashed across each model. More about the split in a bit.</p>
<p><del><strong>5D Mark III (<a href="http://detail.zol.com.cn/digital_camera/index239857.shtml">source</a>)</strong></del>

<del> 26.4mp</del>

<del> 19 AF Points</del>

<del> 4.9fps</del>

<del> DIGIC V</del>

<del> Wireless Flash Operation</del></p>
<p><del><strong>5D X (<a href="http://detail.zol.com.cn/digital_camera/index312043.shtml">source</a>)

</strong>45mp</del>

<del> 61 AF points</del>

<del> DIGIC 5  & DIGIC 4</del></p>
<p><em>thanks stefan & bernd</em></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
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## Maxis Gamez (Feb 19, 2012)

*Re: 5D Mark III & 5D X Specs?*

Oh boy...


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## oppomus (Feb 19, 2012)

*Re: 5D Mark III & 5D X Specs?*

5D Mark III
26.4mp
*19 AF Points*
*4.9fps*
DIGIC V
Wireless Flash Operation


Will be giant fail of canon


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## JED (Feb 19, 2012)

*Re: 5D Mark III & 5D X Specs?*

if they change the AF between the 2 versions it would make more sense.


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## simonxu11 (Feb 19, 2012)

*Re: 5D Mark III & 5D X Specs?*

The 5d mark III rumors cannot be trusted, it was there since May 2011
This is the source:
http://www.cameragearguide.com/3395/rumor-canon-eos-5d-mark-iii-released-in-may-for-canon-expo-2011-in-shanghai-china-we-doubt-it/

And as a Chinese, I know ZOL website is highly unreliable.


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## candyman (Feb 19, 2012)

*Re: 5D Mark III & 5D X Specs?*



JED said:


> if they change the AF between the 2 versions it would make more sense.




Yes. That makes sense. Creating an entry FF (being MKIII) and a middle level FF (being 5DX)
A lot of APS-C users that want to enter the FF would have a smaller stepup. That would be good news!


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## Mr.Magic (Feb 19, 2012)

*Re: 5D Mark III & 5D X Specs?*

I don't understand:

5D was once famous for the first with high MP
5DII exactly the same
5DIII would then normally be high MP as well

1DX merges full frame with high fps
You would expect 5DX to do the same: combine ff and high fps

Based on rumors they would do the opposite: not logical to me...

PS: like these specs much less than the previous ones


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## maxxevv (Feb 19, 2012)

*Re: 5D Mark III & 5D X Specs?*

It would seem to me that the AF module and the FPS are mixed up between the two really. 

The 1Dx churns out 18Mp x 12fps = 216 Mp/s 

When you reverse it on a 45MP sensor, you get 4.8fps. 

So, it doesn't make much sense to get only 4.9fps on the 5DIII if it "only" has 26.4MP. Likewise, it doesn't make sense to put a top of the line AF on a slow FPS camera either. When in a sense, a 19pt 7D sensor is quite suffice??

I would think, that the specs should read : 

5DIII: 45MP, 19pt AF, 4.9fps, High Dynamic Range, moderate ISO 12.8k-25.6k. 

It would make sense as a high pixel camera for landscape, studio, product work.

5Dx : 26.4mp, 61pt AF , 8 fps High ISO 51.2k- 102.4k, 

It would fit into the role of a compact, photojournalist, sub-sports, do everything camera body. 

Makes more sense ??? ???


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## JR (Feb 19, 2012)

Getting the 19 point AF instead of a 1 series level AF on the next 5DmkII would be disappointing. I also agree with some of the change maxxevv is suggesting in that a 61 pt AF system makes more sense in a 26MP camera then it does in a 45MP camera. I would assume the 45MP camera is more for studios and landscape and as such the 19pt would be sufficient. The 26MP model will be used a lot more for sports stuff (assuming you dont already have a 1DX in your collection)...

That said, still not sure it is a wise move to put anything below a 1 series level AF system in the new 5D(s)...


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## shuttersound (Feb 19, 2012)

Its getting "nearer" and specs are getting harder to nail this time round. Really cant wait for the so-called announcement date... :'(


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## Flake (Feb 19, 2012)

*Re: 5D Mark III & 5D X Specs?*

Didn't last long!


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## windscmoon (Feb 19, 2012)

Hum,I just wanna say,as a canon fan from China ,I read every piece of news about the successor of 5d2 at Chinese websites for 2 years.What I should say is every (yes,I said every)news was copyed and translated from abroad.Our webs do not have any source can bring us fresh and independent news. So do not trust them.I rank this for CR0.


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## mathino (Feb 19, 2012)

JR said:


> Getting the 19 point AF instead of a 1 series level AF on the next 5DmkII would be disappointing. I also agree with some of the change maxxevv is suggesting in that a 61 pt AF system makes more sense in a 26MP camera then it does in a 45MP camera. I would assume the 45MP camera is more for studios and landscape and as such the 19pt would be sufficient. The 26MP model will be used a lot more for sports stuff (assuming you dont already have a 1DX in your collection)...
> 
> That said, still not sure it is a wise move to put anything below a 1 series level AF system in the new 5D(s)...



You are right. Putting something below 1D AF into 5D body is not so wise now - and this is also a marketing thing. And I agree with you split  Makes just more sense to me then specs that were posted.

*IF* this is true then I can see new 5D III below 3000, maybe even at 2500 USD/euros. I'm not comparing it to D800 - there is NOTHING to compare - but ask yourself what you can get for the same same price  I really wanted Canon to offer us something fresh and not just sticking some stuff together that "might" work/satisfy.

As for specs:
- those 26.4 Mpx looks somehow strange - new sensor ?! This just adds R&D costs. And they just can *easily* "justify" price above 3000 USD.
- 19 AF points - I was hoping for better than 9 AF points with wider spread (1DX AF just sounded a little too good) and with usable outer points. 
- as for FPS: I'm really hoping for something above 6.5 fps. It will push this body closer to 7D in terms of FPS specs.
- radio flash triggering: wake up ! That just won't happen due to different standards/channels around the world and I really don't think that there will be "regional" versions.

My 0.01 to this post...


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## Old Shooter (Feb 19, 2012)

*Re: 5D Mark III & 5D X Specs?*



Mr.Magic said:


> I don't understand:
> 
> 5D was once famous for the first with high MP
> 5DII exactly the same
> ...



I agree! I've been scratching my head since the "split" rumors started wondering if they didn't have them reversed!


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## Jan (Feb 19, 2012)

TGIB! 
(thank god it's busted)


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## mathino (Feb 19, 2012)

Jan said:


> TGIB!
> (thank god it's busted)



 definitely


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## simonxu11 (Feb 19, 2012)

windscmoon said:


> Hum,I just wanna say,as a canon fan from China ,I read every piece of news about the successor of 5d2 at Chinese websites for 2 years.What I should say is every (yes,I said every)news was copyed and translated from aboard.Our webs do not have any sources can bring us fresh and independent news. So do not trust them.I rank this for CR0.


Haha, well said! What's ur id in xitek?


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## BXL (Feb 19, 2012)

*Re: 5D Mark III & 5D X Specs?*



maxxevv said:


> 5Dx : 26.4mp, 61pt AF , 8 fps High ISO 51.2k- 102.4k,
> 
> It would fit into the role of a compact, photojournalist, sub-sports, do everything camera body.
> 
> Makes more sense ??? ???


Such a 5Dx would cannibalize the sales of 1Dx, thus I don't think it makes sense. 

I agree with a split of the 5D series of cameras: one camera (5D III) for landscape, studio and product work. The other camera with a focus towards professional filming. 



mathino said:


> JR said:
> 
> 
> > Getting the 19 point AF instead of a 1 series level AF on the next 5DmkII would be disappointing.
> ...


When the 7D arrived, many people I know wanted the 19 point AF of the 7D for their 5D II. Thus Canon would deliver what a lot of people asked for. The AF is one of the main points to make the 5D III different from the 1Dx. That's why I think that such a 19 point AF is more likely than some version of the 1Dx 61 point AF.


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## psolberg (Feb 19, 2012)

there is not going to be a split. 22MP for the 5DIII/X sounds perfect. Everything about a split is just wish talk from fans.


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## marius (Feb 19, 2012)

Come on! 
A new full frame camera should come in 1 1/2 weeks and not even a CR2?!?
Where are your sources canonrumours?


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## crjiro (Feb 19, 2012)

i'm still thinking there has to be a cam that is a 5D something that will match and pass the mp of d800.
The 1DX is against the D4. So, there still could be split into two at least in my thimble full of brains. This would
'outgun' the Nikon strategy for price and performance perspective. Thats how we have to look at Canon's outlook. They do just enough to surpass whatever Nikon is doing.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Feb 19, 2012)

*Re: 5D Mark III & 5D X Specs?*



JED said:


> if they change the AF between the 2 versions it would make more sense.



Exactly, these had to be fake even if they hadn't been found out from before.
I mean let me see they put the worse action AF and low fps on the 22MP camera and the top action AF on the 45MP body? Come on, ridiculous from the start. Plus they still had the silly thing where the X version goes to the high MP body that has nothing to do with the 7D when Canon says X means cross between (ala 7D+5D2).

So if you want to send in fake rumors and make a big splash at least try to be logical about what specs and which name goes with what....

(OTOH, ridiculous spec lists like this do make it easy to separate some of the chaff from the wheat.)


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Feb 19, 2012)

*Re: 5D Mark III & 5D X Specs?*



Mr.Magic said:


> I don't understand:
> 
> 5D was once famous for the first with high MP
> 5DII exactly the same
> ...



Exactly, whatever jokers constantly try to feed in fake specs lists for god knows what reason aren't even trying (although I guess that is sort of a good thing since it makes most of them so easy to blow off as garbage).


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Feb 19, 2012)

*Re: 5D Mark III & 5D X Specs?*



BXL said:


> When the 7D arrived, many people I know wanted the 19 point AF of the 7D for their 5D II. Thus Canon would deliver what a lot of people asked for. The AF is one of the main points to make the 5D III different from the 1Dx. That's why I think that such a 19 point AF is more likely than some version of the 1Dx 61 point AF.



Yes, people asked for that.... THREE years ago. At this point in time, and needing to last until 2015 or so, 7D AF in it would be lame, especially since the center point arguably isn't even as good as the one in the 5D2 for some things!


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## kpk1 (Feb 19, 2012)

The 5D III (or 5Ds) should be the studio/landscape cam. That was the 5D line designed for. An AF with less then 19 points is logical.
A 5D X should be the sportier version: a 22-26 mpx, better AF (19 cross points or 1Ds3 AF dunno) and better ISO.
I worte it many times, even if they put 61 points AF in this body from the 1D X they can put big limitations in other aspects, and there you have two roads for both lines. Think at the buffer, or fps, or the advanced menu for the AF. They can enable limits in every aspect.
Canon's strategy with 3 FF bodies it's flexible than Nikon's. Nikon doesn't have a D4 sensor in a D800 body.


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## jdavis37 (Feb 19, 2012)

Rumor discussions are alrways interesting to see the posts between those who want more advancement than Canon will provide and those who will rationalize whatever decision Canon will make. Not sure where I sit in those 2 instances.

I have a 7D that I am overall happy with. That said, in recent years Nikon has shown it is possible to build a $3000 USD camera body with many of the advanced features of the flagship. The D800 departs somewhat in that is has 36+ MP versus the D4's 16 but shares many other things. If it could deliver 6 fps I might be giving it some thought though I don't have to have that many MP's.

At some point Canon hopefully will get the 5D bodies on same playing field as the D700/800. A 7D AF system would be "ok" but definitely would be disappointing at this point on time. My biggest complaint about my 7D AF is the inability to spot meter off any Af point except for the center. I doubt we'll see majoy advancements in terms of improved IS)/detail balances in crop sensors anytime soon. Comparing the Nikon D7000 directly against the 7D shows little if any real differences leading me to believe going with bigger glass and 20-26 MP in a FF sensor is where I will get the clean detailed good DR ISO1600 I'd like for shooting birds. I can give up pixel density and shoot with longer glass as long as the PQ improves. My 7D is pretty decent there but if I am to drop $3K I want a real improvement.

At same time i'd like to see Canon more like Nikon in the AF department. I certainly do not expect a 5D at $3K to be 8 fps but 5 or 6 would be nice. A slightly dumbed down 1D-X or even a MkIV AF would be good. A 7D type system IF the sensor were simply GREAT might be acceptable but the world is round and competition via Nikon suggests a better AF should be expected.

I do not expect a near 1D-X for $3K. The X is for a different type of shooter. But a 5D MkIII whose ISO is perhaps not any better than the D800 with an AF like the 7D would be a failure in my opinion. Am hoping Canon gets back to the 20D days where it produced a body that said " Buy Me I'm worth it" compared to competition. This time the competition for me is my 7D. I would love a 5DMKIII with 1d LIKE AF even if MkIV or a slower 1D_X and a truly useable ISO1600 for capturing bird feathers without loss of detail or color. Will be watching! And no I am not threatening to jump off the cliff to buy nikon. If Canon does not produce something a lot better I'll happily continue with my 7D and save for the 200-400F4L! My 5 cents worth on this one


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Feb 19, 2012)

jdavis37 said:


> The D800 departs somewhat in that is has 36+ MP versus the D4's 16 but shares many other things. If it could deliver 6 fps I might be giving it some thought though I don't have to have that many MP's.



It does. It is 4fps in FF mode. 5fps in 1.2x crop mode. And, with grip, 6fps in DX 1.5x crop mode.


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## moreorless (Feb 19, 2012)

It would seem to make more sense for the rumoured 22MP body to have some kind of 1Dish AF system considering the rest of its specs are reasonabley similar to that line.

A high megapixel body seems like it would be aimed mostly at landscape and studio use though so does it really need the same AF system? a smaller number of widely spaced and accurate rather than fast points seems like it would be better suited to such a camera.


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## marekjoz (Feb 19, 2012)

I still think the final MP count (so the resolution) will be somehow linked to video capabilites. As in 5d2 and 7d what they get from sensor is not quite HD, so now I think they'd like to give more quality having some less PP computing power used. So they could maybe get closer to 60 fps. It would probably require some integer miltiplier of 1080 when talking about vertical sensor resolution. What they could make would be cropping some FF surface to some known equivalent like aps-h or aps-c. Therefore 45MP seems quite fine for me as it would allow to take 4k video from each second line of image cropped to aps-h (like mentioned on picture from exhibition). 28MP ot the other hand is also sweet as it allows to achieve 4k video from FF taking each second line.


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## c-law (Feb 19, 2012)

Ever since the rumours of the 5D split and the announcement of the 1Dx there have been rumours of their split being a 5D Mark III and a 5Dx. The rumours have always tended towards these type of specs with the III being a lower MP and the X being the high MP beast. That never made sense to me as the Mark II impressed so much on the photography front by being a high MP FF that rivalled the 1Ds and the X was emphasised as keeping the MP low for amazing IQ.

So it seems to me that in the world of fake rumours, people have just been building on other fake rumours whenever they release specs like these.

If I see specs that have a high MP studio cam called the Mark III and a what we have all assumed would be the 3D in a 5Dx then I might start thinking it's real.

Chris


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## windscmoon (Feb 19, 2012)

simonxu11 said:


> windscmoon said:
> 
> 
> > Hum,I just wanna say,as a canon fan from China ,I read every piece of news about the successor of 5d2 at Chinese websites for 2 years.What I should say is every (yes,I said every)news was copyed and translated from aboard.Our webs do not have any source can bring us fresh and independent news. So do not trust them.I rank this for CR0.
> ...



I am a member of xitek.but rare to reply or post on that board.just read.


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## jdavis37 (Feb 20, 2012)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> jdavis37 said:
> 
> 
> > The D800 departs somewhat in that is has 36+ MP versus the D4's 16 but shares many other things. If it could deliver 6 fps I might be giving it some thought though I don't have to have that many MP's.
> ...



Not exactly what I meant but worth noting  I'll watch both the D800 and whatever body or bodies Canon coes out with interest. The D800 certainly has enough pixels to make the crop aspects of telephoto work. But I'll need to see clean ISO1600 shots with feather detail before I believe it! While a 22MP FF sensor will be lacking in pixel density (assuming that rumor is true though I have a hard time believing Canon will essentially not be adding any pixels ) I can get bigger glass if need be especially if the higher ISO ( meaning ISO1600.. with my 7D and birds I rarely go above ISO400 ). It wil be interesting.. but if the rumors suggesting it will have the 1D-X AF, 22 MP and 6.9 fps are true, did Canon just do the D700 to itself? Unless you really NEED 12 fps why not buy the 5D in that case for less than half the price? Just not seeing Canon suddenly pulling a Nikon. Even Nikon this time did not pull a Nikon ( D700 versus D800)! If they do, however, I'll be very inclined to buy one! Especially if I can spot meter using any Af sensor location!


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## pj1974 (Feb 20, 2012)

Hi friends,

I have been following various discussions of a possible'new' FF (eg 5DX/5DIII/5Ds/3D) on these forums and in other places for some time, and have found it interesting seeing the various opinions and speculations presented.

Amidst all the 'information and rumour' overload... there have been a few posts in this particular thread that I think are particularly logical - and applause duly given to those 8) 

I do _not_ think Canon will be going down the route of developing and selling 2 cameras under the 5D line. I think their branding department want to maintain an emphasis on different camera names with an intended target market.

So I believe there might be a 3D in some of the rumours / information we've seen floating over the last while. I believe a 3D will be marketed as a camera that can do anything a 5D can do, but somewhat better in every regard.

In this post, I provide my take (in summary) on what could constitute the whole of a future Canon lineup, under the APS-C and FF tiers / sensor size categories. I'm predicting the next model of each camera body / line, except for the 1DX which hasn't hit the shelves yet. Within my list, I'll provide my take on the possible equivalent of a 5DmkII replacement, which I'm calling the 5DmkIII, though it could also be called the 5DX (same for the possibility of a '7DX'). I have given a name to each line ('in brackets'), that I think defines the branding strategy and focus Canon has had for each line over recent years.

I'm not including all features of each camera- even though I might have a projection and guess for these. That is I won't list the following in my comparisons below: display size / resolution / type, ISO range, exposure or metering details, live view, video details, memory type, CPU # or type/s, flash details, body size. 

Note that comparisons between APS-C and FF should not be made. People who do not understand the real differences between APS-C and FF cameras / sensor sizes will consider APS-C to be 'non pro' and FF to be 'pro'. :

Read from the top down to make sense of the list. That is, comparisons of 'better' / 'more', etc refer to the model directly above. In general, the handling and features of the respective bodies will get progressively superior in each tier (APS-C and FF) - which can be noted by aspects such as (any) weather sealing, quality of optical view finder (OVF), buttons, features and customisation. 


*APS-C*
- 1200D ('budget') 12MP 3fps. Basic 9pt AF & budget sensor. Smallest body & OVF.
- 650D ('consumer') 18MP 4fps. 9pt with cross-type & better sensor. Better display & OVF.
- 70D ('amateur') 18MP 6fps. 9pt AF with more cross-type AF pts. Better body & OVF.
- 7DmkII ('prosumer') 22MP 8fps. 19pt AF, cross-type AF pts. Best APS-C body & OVF.


*FF*
- 5DmkIII ('enthusiast') 26MP 5fps. 19pt AF downgraded 7D AF, A few cross-type AF pts.
- 3D ('premium') 34MP 8fps. 45 AF, many cross-type and extra sensitivity AF pts. Better body.
- 1DX ('professional') 18MP 14fps. 61AF. Full professional body. Highest connectivity and feature set.


The main marketed differentiation between the 5D line and the 3D line will be on the sensor, with the focus for the 5D line being on low noise and great DR, whereas the 3D marketing focus will emphasize resolution, advanced features and body quality. Both 5D line and 3D line will require a separate grip. The most difficult name to attribute to any of these cameras, was the (hypothetical) 3D... I had also considered the following words "advanced / elite / deluxe / superior / expert / high-end" before deciding on 'premium'. ;D

I expect the eventual (street) price of the 5DMkIII will be about $3,000 Euro / AUD / USD or about 2000 GBP, though the initial RRP might be a bit higher.
In comparison, if a 3D line does come out, I expect it to have a price of about $5,000 Euro / AUD / USD or about 3500 GBP, again though - the initial RRP might be a bit higher.
The 1DX has been marketed as the 'super fast, powerful AF' that photo-journalists and professional sports photographers demand, with connectivity options indicating a 'on the fly' environment for the target market. The 1DX's sensor will probably be Canon's lowest noise / highest dynamic range sensor for some time - given the relatively low MP for a FF.

FYI, I have the Canon 7D and 350D camera bodies, and a number of lenses, including the 15-85mm USM IS, 70-300mm L USM IS, 100mm USM macro and Sigma 10-20mm HSM EX. In my humble opinion, the number of quality Canon EF-S lenses (eg 17-55mm, 10-22mm, 15-85mm, 60mm macro) indicates their commitment to continue developing and producing the 'amateur' and 'prosumer' camera body lines for some time yet, with APS-C sensors continuing to offer a broad spectrum of photographers a good balance in terms of flexibility, quality and size. The APS-C tier fits between P&S / mirrorless cameras and FF.

My take on the future above, is purely derived from a personal analytical perspective. I have a marketing degree and working background, but have no insider knowledge from Canon. I don't believe that we'll see the return of APS-H sensors. Part of what I've written above might be hypothetical, but I'll be curious to see in the future how many of these I got 'close' or even 'spot on'!  

I look forward to your comments.

Paul


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## spidyhero (Feb 20, 2012)

pj1974 said:


> *FF*
> - 5DmkIII ('enthusiast') 26MP 5fps. 19pt AF downgraded 7D AF, A few cross-type AF pts.
> - 3D ('premium') 34MP 8fps. 45 AF, many cross-type and extra sensitivity AF pts. Better body.
> - 1DX ('professional') 18MP 14fps. 61AF. Full professional body. Highest connectivity and feature set.
> ...



Reasoning on market segment, IMHO the 5DIII should lure those that own the 5DII (they are a nice segment in dimension), making them update to the newer, as much as those looking for an all around professional camera less expensive than the 1DX.

The high framerate on a high resolution sensor camera has a reason if you don't split the line (as Nikon is doing with the D800).

If Canon is planning to split the 5D line, the high framerate should go to the lower-res camera (as a feature for general purpose shooter).

The high-res camera should be addressed to studio professionals or resolution addicted amateurs (they don't see high framerate as a big selling point) and bring a higher cost in comparison.

If you also take account of what the video enthusiasts are expecting, they don't need a higher megapixel camera, but a better Dynamic Range sensor for sure (as much as some video oriented new features).

So if you push on the DR feature, you must lower the pixel count and increase pixel dimension.

Canon can do the split since it is a mammoth company with a huge R&D dept. in comparison to Nikon (using Sony made sensors on proprietary specs), and it also makes sense on a usage-driven market segment (photo vs. video).

This is only speculation, of course, keep it with a grain of salt because we don't know all the photo-video Canon market numbers.

But also keep for sure that if a disruptive innovation has to be made for a product (the Canon 5D), it should be Canon itself to do it, because it opens new markets, don't cannibalize the existing one (think to the Apple iPhone 's new models development path).


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## jdavis37 (Feb 20, 2012)

pj1974 said:


> *APS-C*
> - 1200D ('budget') 12MP 3fps. Basic 9pt AF & budget sensor. Smallest body & OVF.
> - 650D ('consumer') 18MP 4fps. 9pt with cross-type & better sensor. Better display & OVF.
> - 70D ('amateur') 18MP 6fps. 9pt AF with more cross-type AF pts. Better body & OVF.
> ...



If the 5DMkIII is as you suggest it would match Canon's marketing from the past quite well. Let's compare what $3K brings us:

Nikon D800 - 36.3 MP, 4 fps ( up to 6 fps in DX mode), Nikon's best AF, fully sealed
Proposed 5D3 - 26 MP, AF inferior to even 7D's, and 5 fps

Now unless Canon does something magical with their sensor (something they have not done in some time now ) WHY would the average person buy the Canon except for already owning Canon glass? I've shot Canon gear since 1980 but am not a loyalist nor do I jump camps at a whim (obviously).

At some point though Canon has to step up and at least TRY to match what Nikon is doing, or at least come close to matching them.

I am at an end with buying crop sensors (currently using 7D,,, good camera, like it, but noise above ISO400 is tough on bird feathers ). I'm ok with buying bigger glass to replace the crop. But there is no way I would pay $3K to have an AF worse than my 7D.

This is like ESPN's "Come On MAAN" routine.

I prefer the rumors of a 1D MkIV AF or slightly dumbed down 1D-X Af, 5 to 6 fps and 22 MP for the next 5D. But I fear they will deliver something closer to what Paul is suggesting here. I also hope the rumors of the 1D-X MAYBE adding F8 Af ability is true. D800 and D4 both offer that.

Will be interesting to see if Canon steps up or if they continue to preserve the flagship at all costs, avoiding what Nikon did with the D3/D700 ( where D700 was a much cheaper option, add grip and almost a D3).

But Canon continues to do their marketing as they have and perhaps A D4+ 200-400F4 + 1.7X TC is an option.. hate to suggest it but who knows.


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## briansquibb (Feb 20, 2012)

pj1974 said:


> - 5DmkIII ('enthusiast') 26MP 5fps. 19pt AF downgraded 7D AF, A few cross-type AF pts.



Cant see them developing an inferior AF wihen they already have the 45 point 1d4/1ds3 AF sitting in the parts bin waiting to be fitted


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## marekjoz (Feb 20, 2012)

jdavis37 said:


> pj1974 said:
> 
> 
> > (...)
> ...



This is NOT gear for average person. It's enough that pictures will lok better on Canon and those who know what and why they spend theit money will not look for rough numbers from specification.


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## DzPhotography (Feb 20, 2012)

Just one question. Why are the specs striked through? Because they're not believable nor correct?


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## JoeBoe19 (Feb 20, 2012)

DzPhotography said:


> Just one question. Why are the specs striked through? Because they're not believable nor correct?



good question - it makes it look like they have been deemed completely impossible.


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## pj1974 (Feb 20, 2012)

jdavis37 said:


> pj1974 said:
> 
> 
> > *FF*
> ...



Thanks jdavis37 for your reply and thoughts.

I agree with you, that the Nikon D800 offers a lot of bang for the buck, and on paper it appears to be an impressive camera. With the 5DmkIII (or whatever the 5DmkII successor will be called), I think Canon will be targetting a lot of those already with Canon glass - and many of these will have significant glass already. So if the price of 5DmkIII and D800 are close, I think they are going to differentiate on 'you're with us already' - not expecting many people to switch because they have lenses they don't want to part with, and a system that 'works' for the photographer already.

Perhaps Canon will have a sensor in the 5DmkIII that will be very good in terms of low (clean) noise at all ISOs, high DR and is very sharp per pixel definition, and they'll be encouraging people to either upgrade from APS-C or 5D / 5DmkII. If Canon do go the '5D line and 3D line' for FF below the 1D line, I think they'll 'aim' the 5D just below Nikon's D800, and the 3D significantly above the D800 (even if the prices don't fully reflect that). Canon will have done their research on that, and my understanding is that they make most of their profits and 'gain customers' via the APS-C cameras, first... then migrating them up to FF.

I find the 7D's AF to be very good for what it is. The flexibility of the cross-type AF points location (for composition) and working well (ie focussing reliably and accurately), even in relatively dim light I'm happy with. Obviously I'd like to have a superior system (eg ability to focus in even lower light, perhaps even quicker AF response), but I think it is very powerful - and I've seen many experienced photographers really like it for action shots (eg sports, birds in flight, etc). The 7D noise is certainly an area they can improve on (and I hope they do for the 7DmkII). Though for critical applications I select as low an ISO as I can, and post processing does often remove noise while preserving decent detail well - though of course not at the higher end ISOs.

The 3D I think will be aimed at those who need more speed and better AF than the 5DmkIII, whereas the 5DmkIII will have better AF than the 5DmkII, and be aimed at the 'more budget conscious studio / landscape photographer' after very high image quality, without getting anywhere near the $5k for 'just the body'. Similarly to the APS-C lines of cameras, I think any 3D will be developed to 'do everything better than the 5D line' - just as the 7D does everything better than the 60D, and in turn the 60D currently do everything better than the 600D (build quality, AF, features, etc). The sensor is the minor differentiation here. The Canon 200-400mm with built in 1.4 TC will be a lens that many with the 3D will 'want'. I do think it's a 'shame' the 1DX doesn't have AF f8 capability, and not sure if Canon is perhaps looking to change this via another FF that can AF @ F8, or via firmware.

jdavis37, I hope that Canon will surprise us with their next release of camera bodies. In many aspects, Nikon has upped the ante in recent years, though I still prefer Canon's bodies, colours and definitely most lenses (and lens breadth / quality, though of course both have many very good lenses). Let's see where this goes. I'm still very keenly looking forward to the image quality that is going to come from the FF 1DX 18MP.... hoping that it is something of a huge revolution in image quality - ie out of this world even compared to the 5DmkIII. Not that I am planning to buy that camera..... even though I have currently the 'spare funds to'.

But I do believe Canon have seen what Sony's sensors have been like, and in response Canon has been doing a lot of work (R&D) on their sensors, that hopefully will trickle through as improvements in quality to all their next released models.

Regards....

Paul


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## pj1974 (Feb 20, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> pj1974 said:
> 
> 
> > - 5DmkIII ('enthusiast') 26MP 5fps. 19pt AF downgraded 7D AF, A few cross-type AF pts.
> ...




Hi Brian, thanks for your post also. 

Yes, I can definitely see where you're coming from, that it might seem better to use an existing / working AF system rather than 'dumb down' say the existing 7D AF.

My post above was speculation, however I do see a gap between the 5DmkII and the 1DX that 'needs' to be filled by something like what I've proposed above might be the specs of a 3D, which uses a good working 45pt AF system similar (or exactly the same as) the previous 1D4/1Ds3. I just don't see the 5D line inheriting that (at least not 'yet').

And as I've seen Canon do quite successfully in the APS-C lines, that is: have a range - ie 4 (!) differently developed AF sensors, which also seems 'inefficient' from a R&D perspective, but they have that. Although I'm reasonably technically competitent, I am not a electronic engineer (I've got a marketing degree instead)- thus I'm not sure the development costs (to dumb down a 7D or 'invent' another AF system all together for the 5DmkIII). I just think Canon are trying to win points and market share by having a 'range to suit every person' - and *also* clearer reasons to attempt to tempt people up to the next line or tiers of camera.

But who knows... you could very well be right (and if so, well done!). Time will tell... and hopefully we'll know before too long. 8)

Cheers!

Paul


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## psolberg (Feb 21, 2012)

jdavis37 said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > jdavis37 said:
> ...



I think if nikon wanted to make a fast camera for high iso, they would have named it D4....oh wait...they did.
point being, the D800 isn't about what you seem to think it should be. would you buy a 5DII because of its speed and AF prowess? The D800 is more of a new line and not a D700 successor which was an 8FPS, 51 pro-AF speed demon. totally different markets.


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## scokar (Feb 21, 2012)

1st one to offer a "D4 junior", or "1DX junior" gets my money.


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## pj1974 (Feb 21, 2012)

spidyhero said:


> pj1974 said:
> 
> 
> > *FF*
> ...



Hi spideyhero

Also thanks for your comments above, replying to my initial post in this thread.

I can see the logic, of splitting the FF under the 1DX by having both:
1) a 'high resolution / slower fps' camera (studio / landscape) and
2) a 'lower resolution / higher fps' (sports / wildlife / photo-journalists)

However, for some reason, at this stage, I am just thinking they might split differently. I could very well be wrong. I just see there being a 'gap' for a (perhaps) 3D - which is above 5D line in resolution and in fps. Like the 7D was when it came out (above other APS-C cameras in both resolution and fps).

I think both the 5D line and a possible 3D line will be relatively high resolution, compared to the 1DX, which has the ultimate image quality per pixel - in terms of very low noise, great DR - and the most speed of them all.

Let's see! Thanks again. 

Paul


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