# Nikon D5 with 4K - Bring it on 1dx2



## keriboi (Jan 5, 2016)

Nilkon has announced the d5. Pretty impressive specs. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cW1XmEQXKQ4

New 20.8MP FX-format CMOS image sensor and EXPEED 5 image processing
Widest native ISO range ever in a Nikon full-frame DSLR: ISO 100 to 102,400 (expandable to Hi-5, ISO 3,280,000)
Redesigned AF system with a 153 focus points, 99 cross-type sensors and a dedicated processor
4K Ultra High Definition (UHD) video recording and pro-grade video features
12 fps continuous shooting with full AF and AE performance; up to 200 shots in a single burst

$6,499.95


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## keriboi (Jan 5, 2016)

D500 also announced. Could be a 7d2 killer


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## keriboi (Jan 5, 2016)

#Nikon adds Auto AF FineTune to #D5 & #D500, using Live View to auto-calibrate Phase Detect module for accurate AF. A 1st for DSLR. #CES2016


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## keriboi (Jan 5, 2016)

Wonder what ISO 3 million looks like


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## candc (Jan 5, 2016)

keriboi said:


> #Nikon adds Auto AF FineTune to #D5 & #D500, using Live View to auto-calibrate Phase Detect module for accurate AF. A 1st for DSLR. #CES2016



Its about time somebody did this. Hope canon does the same soon.


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## stoneysnapper (Jan 6, 2016)

I expect Canon to match most of the 1Dxii specs with the D5 although the D5 only does 12fps which the 1Dxii can do already. ISO 3m will be a waste of time, might be useable up to 105k though which is 2 stops more than the 1Dx is in my opinion. The specs of the D5 to be fair might just have Canon hitting the pause button on the 1Dxii announcement.

The D500 is far more interesting to me, it knocks any Canon crop body completely out of the water if it performs well. I can't see any current Canon body, 7Dii or 70D being upgraded to compete with it if Canon choose to do so, new line I'd guess, 4D or 8D maybe? It took 5 years to update the 7D and to be honest it was a pretty unambitious update. 

Interesting from Nikon though, certainly should make Canon pause and look. I'd like to see an electronic shutter option on the 1Dxii and if possible some kind of focus peaking in Live View.


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## pixelsouldier (Jan 6, 2016)

I read up on the specs, and I can only expect that based on their history, we can also see it in cameras that are under the flagship model to follow suite.

153 AF points with 99 cross type, 4k video to name a few that will follow. I am interested in how Canon will respond to this! 

What brings joy to me is we are seeing big changes in DSLRs. They are still the go-to cameras versus mirrorless. In a wedding, a mirrorless camera would need a couple of battery swaps.. I found that my own DSLR could use one entire battery for a whole day of shooting a wedding. Glad to see the ball rolling again!


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## Dylan777 (Jan 6, 2016)

I would careless with or without 4k in 1dx II. Just keep that price around $6k


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## pixelsouldier (Jan 6, 2016)

Would be nice. I'm sure they will usually keep it around that. But you can't really discredit the fact that there are people who will benefit from 4k. Canon will find a good balance. Can't have everything.


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## Perio (Jan 6, 2016)

3 min only


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## romanr74 (Jan 6, 2016)

From a user point of view i like the Nikon approach where lower end cameras re-use the "components" of the flagship camera vs. the Canon "crippled" features concept. Whether the Canon approach is economically more interesting is a different story...


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## pixelsouldier (Jan 6, 2016)

romanr74 said:


> From a user point of view i like the Nikon approach where lower end cameras re-use the "components" of the flagship camera vs. the Canon "crippled" features concept. Whether the Canon approach is economically more interesting is a different story...



Agreed. Was always envious of that.. My friends who shoot Nikon have nice goodies. I drool at the D750. Now this. Hopefully this gives Canon a realllllly good nudge to make something great.


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## rfdesigner (Jan 6, 2016)

Perio said:


> (4k) 3 min only



So heat is a big issue. Wonder if Canon have found a way round this?

Regardless, the D5 raises the bar quite some way


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## Tugela (Jan 6, 2016)

I would be very surprised if the 1DX2 doesn't beat the D5. 

I would say that Nikon are done if this is the best they can do. They wont beat Canon with this camera, and will not hold off the MILCs coming down the road with it either.


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## ronaldbyram (Jan 6, 2016)

153 Focus points Crazy? when most folks will switch to center point. But who am I to say!


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## Deleted member 91053 (Jan 6, 2016)

dilbert said:


> keriboi said:
> 
> 
> > #Nikon adds Auto AF FineTune to #D5 & #D500, using Live View to auto-calibrate Phase Detect module for accurate AF. A 1st for DSLR. #CES2016
> ...



This looks like it will be a useful feature for Nikon shooters - well done Nikon! I have no idea if it will be of any use to Canon shooters as all my lenses (16 to 800mm) focus accurately on all my bodies, with or without extenders (EOS3, 33V, 50E, 1DX. 7D2) - still it's nice to be able to play! The rest of the specs look a bit so so to me. However we will have to see how the pan out in the real world. Having used the Nikon D4 and D4S Nikon shooters need a boost - lets hope this is it!


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## ajfotofilmagem (Jan 6, 2016)

Have you noticed that Nikon did two versions of its D5?  One with two slots of XQD card, and a different version, with two Compact Flash card slots.

It seems that the buzz about D500 is overshadowing the flagship D5 ... ???


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## dexstrose (Jan 7, 2016)

It would be nice if they shed some weight from the upcoming 1d camera. But not too light so it feels unbalance with larger lenses.


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## expatinasia (Jan 7, 2016)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> Have you noticed that Nikon did two versions of its D5?  One with two slots of XQD card, and a different version, with two Compact Flash card slots.
> 
> It seems that the buzz about D500 is overshadowing the flagship D5 ... ???



The D500 is definitely creating more of a buzz and it is easy to see why. It is very similar to the D5 but costs three times less at launch - something which will likely increase further over time, as the D500 may fall in price quicker than the D5. Hats off to them for creating such an interesting camera.

When I first read that there are two versions of the D5 I was shocked. I *really hope Canon do not do that. 

If I was a D4 or D4S owner I really am not sure if I would be happy with the D5, and would be looking very closely at the D500 - or waiting to see what Canon do with the 1D X II. I mean what's that 3 minute 4K video limit all about?!! Yes, I know you can record externally for longer, but that just means you need to carry more stuff etc. etc.

If Canon starts doing silly things like that, I would be unlikely to upgrade.*


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## expatinasia (Jan 7, 2016)

dilbert said:


> expatinasia said:
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I know that, dilbert. I shoot quite a lot of video and I already have "a lot of other stuff". My point was why have a 3-minute limit on 4K when the 500D does not have such a limit? The 1D C does not have a 3-minute limit either (though I know at launch it was much more expensive). I just do not get that.

Would you be happy if the 1D X II has a 3 limit internal recording limit?!! - If you do not shoot video regularly then no point in replying to that.


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## 9VIII (Jan 7, 2016)

ronaldbyram said:


> 153 Focus points Crazy? when most folks will switch to center point. But who am I to say!



I definitely agree.
Unless they start giving us eye detection for birds I'm almost never going to use the full AF grid, or else I want a fast toggle to switch between AF modes.
Wait a minute...

(Edit: the 7DMkII does have a thumb lever for rapid AF mode switching, once again showing Canon are masters of the User Interface. Hopefully that starts showing up on all the other high end bodies, bird photography can't be the only application for something like that.)


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## rfdesigner (Jan 7, 2016)

expatinasia said:


> ajfotofilmagem said:
> 
> 
> > Have you noticed that Nikon did two versions of its D5?  One with two slots of XQD card, and a different version, with two Compact Flash card slots.
> ...


*

Can you really record externally for longer?.. I haven't noticed that spec. Assumng 8MByte / frame an 30fps you can still record more than 3 minutes onto a 64G card, so I don't think it's memory that's limiting the3minutes. I'm willing to bet you can sling all you like on the outside of the D5 and you'll still be limited to 3 minutes otherwise the spec would say "3 minutes limit for internal recording" or something.*


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## tpatana (Jan 7, 2016)

Dylan777 said:


> I would careless with or without 4k in 1dx II. Just keep that price around $6k



+1


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## tpatana (Jan 7, 2016)

stoneysnapper said:


> ISO 3m will be a waste of time, might be useable up to 105k though which is 2 stops more than the 1Dx is in my opinion.



Well, it totally depends on the noise it delivers. Can't tell until we see. Maybe the 3M is as good as 1DX at 50k? Hell yeah, that'd kick ass. So until they give idea of the actual performance, it's just guessing if 3M or 100k will be usable.


> The specs of the D5 to be fair might just have Canon hitting the pause button on the 1Dxii announcement.



Nah, with the electronics cycle, if they want to deliver before olympics (which they will), the factories are ramping up soon. Not much time for last minute changes anymore.


> The D500 is far more interesting to me, it knocks any Canon crop body completely out of the water if it performs well. I can't see any current Canon body, 7Dii or 70D being upgraded to compete with it if Canon choose to do so, new line I'd guess, 4D or 8D maybe? It took 5 years to update the 7D and to be honest it was a pretty unambitious update.



Yes, the D500 is something. That really stirs the mid-budget field.


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## Proscribo (Jan 7, 2016)

tpatana said:


> stoneysnapper said:
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> > ISO 3m will be a waste of time, might be useable up to 105k though which is 2 stops more than the 1Dx is in my opinion.
> ...


But don't we already have so good high-ISO performance that even one stop jump would be significant? Better would require getting rid of bayer sensors for example, so even 100k being as good as 1dx's 25k sounds pretty far from truth. :-\


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## expatinasia (Jan 7, 2016)

rfdesigner said:


> expatinasia said:
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> > ajfotofilmagem said:
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*

I am pretty sure that I read it is just internal recording which is limited to 3 minutes and only on the D5, but I may be wrong. These are the (really weird) specs:

3 minutes at high quality only for 4K UHD 3840 x 2160/24/25/30p recording

10 minutes at highest quality or 20 minutes at normal quality setting for 1920 x 1080/50/60p recording

20 minutes at highest quality for all recording options except 4K UHD, 1920 x 1080/50/60p and 640 x 424/25/30p

29 minutes 59 seconds at normal quality for all recording options except 4K UHD, and 1920 x 1080/50/60p 

That info is from Nikon USA website.

Matt Granger in his YouTube video here https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gzqTeahNF1w noted that:

the d500 will do 4K 29.59 internal in one recording, but it splits the file into 3 minute chunks. The D5 is flat out limited to 3 mins recording.*


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## tpatana (Jan 7, 2016)

expatinasia said:


> I am pretty sure that I read it is just internal recording which is limited to 3 minutes and only on the D5, but I may be wrong. These are the (really weird) specs:
> 
> 3 minutes at high quality only for 4K UHD 3840 x 2160/24/25/30p recording
> 
> ...



I think it's physical size. They couldn't fit heat sink in D5, but D500 has two more zeroes so those are easy to fill with heat spreading material.


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## expatinasia (Jan 7, 2016)

No idea, but the 1D C which is the same size as the 1D X can do it and has no such limitations. Really weird.

I did not know the D500 was cutting the 4k into 3-minute segments. That makes both cameras totally unsuitable for the video work I do with DSLR, and I doubt I am alone. Very weird decision from Nikon, but I am sure Canon are loving all this!


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## expatinasia (Jan 7, 2016)

dilbert said:


> I wonder if this is a file size problem rather than a heat one?
> 
> That this is perceived to be a problem is interesting. If you go on set to a movie or tv show, there are very very few takes longer than 3 minutes.



Yes, but I, and am sure many others, do a lot of other video work which is well over 5, 10 even 15-20 minutes long.

I have only broke the 29:59 barrier on the 1D X twice and the image break was just 2 or 3 seconds while I restarted the recording. Thankfully I was recording sound externally so I could keep the sound going even through the black screen, but 3-minutes is totally unusable for me.


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## Maui5150 (Jan 7, 2016)

expatinasia said:


> dilbert said:
> 
> 
> > I wonder if this is a file size problem rather than a heat one?
> ...



3 Minute 4K Video would be like having a camera that shoots 50MB Raw files, but uses a new card format that only has 2GB cards available. 

I have started doing a lot of video work, especially events, and sometimes dealing with 35 files off of 2 cameras shot over 2 hours can be time consuming. a lot of my clips are 7 - 10 minutes, many 20 or so. 3 Minutes??? Why bother


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## rfdesigner (Jan 7, 2016)

Proscribo said:


> tpatana said:
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> > stoneysnapper said:
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I would say that three stops are available without dropping Bayer. (Quantum efficiency and Read Noise.. QE could jump from ~50% 400-700nm average, to 90% average & RN could drop from ~2.5e to ~0.5e before you're limited by quantisation of the original signal)

Dropping bayer will buy almost 2 stops.

After that you need a larger format camera.


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## zim (Jan 7, 2016)

Maybe Nikon have deliberately 'crippled' the camera 8)


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## Pancho (Jan 7, 2016)

I have read that the 4K recording on Nikon D500 and D5 is done with the center of the sensor only, bringing a factor of 2.2x on the equivalent focal length.
(read here: http://www.lesnumeriques.com/appareil-photo-numerique/nikon-d500-p30677/ces-2016-cette-fois-y-est-nikon-d500-est-enfin-n48705.html sorry, in french...).
So, for the kit lens of the D500 which starts at 18mm, the equivalent FF focal will be 60mm! quite huge for video no?


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## ajfotofilmagem (Jan 7, 2016)

Pancho said:


> I have read that the 4K recording on Nikon D500 and D5 is done with the center of the sensor only, bringing a factor of 2.2x on the equivalent focal length.
> (read here: http://www.lesnumeriques.com/appareil-photo-numerique/nikon-d500-p30677/ces-2016-cette-fois-y-est-nikon-d500-est-enfin-n48705.html sorry, in french...).
> So, for the kit lens of the D500 which starts at 18mm, the equivalent FF focal will be 60mm! quite huge for video no?


If only the center of the sensor is used to record 4K video, the lenses will be less wide angle. But not as much as its calculation says:

I do not read French, but reading the website link you quoted, I understood that the total crop factor is 2.2X.

4K has 8 megapixel resolution approximately in proportion 16x9. As the D500 sensor has nearly 21 megapexel in proportion 3x2, a lens a 18mm will have viewing angle around 26mm APS-C, or equivalent to 39mm on full frame.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jan 7, 2016)

D500 also does 4k so what the heck is Canon's excuse with all the talk about how they still see 4k as only a 1DX2 level feature if the rumors are to be believed?

And the Sony A7R II already delivers not just 4k, but oversampled very high quality (other than being unfortunately stuck at 8bit instead of 10bit) 4k.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Jan 7, 2016)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> D500 also does 4k so what the heck is Canon's excuse with all the talk about how they still see 4k as only a 1DX2 level feature if the rumors are to be believed?
> 
> And the Sony A7R II already delivers not just 4k, but oversampled very high quality (other than being unfortunately stuck at 8bit instead of 10bit) 4k.


The Nikon DSLR to date had bit rate for video less than the Canon, and this explains why no serious professional makes videos with Nikon. It is possible that the new D5 and D500 change it, but I seriously doubt that these cameras will have bit rate in 4K as good as Canon 1DC.


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## Deleted member 91053 (Jan 8, 2016)

Am I missing something here? What idiot buys a 1DX/D4S/D5 etc etc for video? I have the 1DX for over 2 years and don't even know how to turn the video function on - let alone care to find out!
Were I a video shooter there are far superior options that are usually cheaper too.
All that matters with the D5 is 1. is it reliable and 2. have they got the AF sorted out? If they have done both of these then it will be a significant improvement over it's predecessors and a great advance for Nikon stills shooters. I sincerely hope it is as they need a boost - the last one was the excellent D3 but that was quite a while ago!


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## boozed (Jan 11, 2016)

stoneysnapper said:


> ISO 3m will be a waste of time


But at least it'll be a very short time.


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## dolina (Jan 11, 2016)

boozed said:


> stoneysnapper said:
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> > ISO 3m will be a waste of time
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ISO 3m is useful for photojournalist or paparazzi who can take photos of say Angelina Jolie kissing someone other than Brad Pitt.

The photo's image quality may be ignored by people on CR but a lot of news outlets would pay 10x the value of the D5 for exclusive rights to the image.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 11, 2016)

dolina said:


> boozed said:
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> > stoneysnapper said:
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There's Angelina kissing Rob on a rooftop, do you see?


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## preppyak (Jan 11, 2016)

Kind of blows my mind that Nikon can only deliver 4k for 3mins on the D5 when Sony solved it in a much smaller camera body and so did Panasonic. And when Canon solved it 4 years ago as well.


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## dolina (Jan 11, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> dolina said:
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I do see a building the left.

Image quality aint the end all be all. Look at the sex tapes of Paris Hilton and Kim Kardasian. A bundle was made despite the amateur gear used.


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## dolina (Jan 11, 2016)

preppyak said:


> Kind of blows my mind that Nikon can only deliver 4k for 3mins on the D5 when Sony solved it in a much smaller camera body and so did Panasonic. And when Canon solved it 4 years ago as well.


A limitation of licensing, technical or restriction imposed by the organizer of said events the D5 will be used at.

Timeline may be a reason as well assuming they're rushing development of the D5.

4K resolution video for more than 3 mins could be enabled by a simple firmware update in the future.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 11, 2016)

dolina said:


> preppyak said:
> 
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> > Kind of blows my mind that Nikon can only deliver 4k for 3mins on the D5 when Sony solved it in a much smaller camera body and so did Panasonic. And when Canon solved it 4 years ago as well.
> ...



Or the problem is heat.


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## Don Haines (Jan 11, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> dolina said:
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> > preppyak said:
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agreed!

If the sensor is 2.25 times the area, then it probably creates 2.25 times the heat......


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## dolina (Jan 11, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> dolina said:
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Any which way we look at it the D5 is the baseline Canon should aspire to surpass.


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## Jack Douglas (Jan 11, 2016)

http://nikonrumors.com/2016/01/08/nikon-d5-specifications-and-features-explained-confidential-nikon-internal-document.aspx/

This could be handy for those wishing to do a check-list type comparison to the 1DX II

Also quite interesting to read, the way questions are answered.

Jack


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 11, 2016)

dolina said:


> neuroanatomist said:
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In the case of 4K recording, Canon surpassed the D5 four years ago with the 1D C.


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## PureClassA (Jan 11, 2016)

Umm yeah. Let's be honest. The D5 so far doesn't seem like too hard of a threshold to leap beyond...


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## dolina (Jan 11, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> In the case of 4K recording, Canon surpassed the D5 four years ago with the 1D C.


At a price point of $12,000 in 2012. Price dropped to $8,000 in 2015.

D5 is $6,500 in 2016.


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## expatinasia (Jan 11, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> Umm yeah. Let's be honest. The D5 so far doesn't seem like too hard of a threshold to leap beyond...



Agreed, especially where video is concerned.

This thread links to a very interesting article on EOSHD about the Nikon D5 and its video capabilities. Shocking really:

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=28814


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 11, 2016)

dolina said:


> neuroanatomist said:
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> > In the case of 4K recording, Canon surpassed the D5 four years ago with the 1D C.
> ...



The 1D C is a mere $500 more at this point. If I was planning to shoot 4K video on a top-shelf dSLR, that $500 would be more than worth it to overcome the D5's limit of capturing 3 min of 4K video.


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## PureClassA (Jan 11, 2016)

Not only that, but the 1DC also has all the dedicated video features cinematographers prefer along with a native EF mount so they can use all the glass they own and prefer. The only reason guys like Metabones are in business are because everyone wants Canon glass on their Alpha 7s for video lol. I dont think they sell a lot of Nikon adapters.



neuroanatomist said:


> dolina said:
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> > neuroanatomist said:
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## preppyak (Jan 11, 2016)

dolina said:


> preppyak said:
> 
> 
> > Kind of blows my mind that Nikon can only deliver 4k for 3mins on the D5 when Sony solved it in a much smaller camera body and so did Panasonic. And when Canon solved it 4 years ago as well.
> ...


Those reasons would seem to ring hollow once you read the EOSHD article. I cant honestly find a reason anyone would willingly shoot video on a Nikon D5. It does 4k, for 3mins, at a crop mode...despite every Sony model doing better, and despite a speedbooster making something like a GH4, (at 1/3rd the price), a far more practical option. 

And if you are in the video world, instead of being limited by the flange distance of the Nikon F mount, you can go Panasonic or Sony and get every lens ever, and have amazing options for $100-200. And again, going off EOSHD, both Panasonic and Sony are offering a Log mode that Nikon doesnt have.

But, it makes sense for Nikon to do that, because the truth is nobody is shooting video with Nikon. Anyone who was switched to Sony long ago. And, with this release, those that were holding out hope will make the switch


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## preppyak (Jan 11, 2016)

PureClassA said:


> The only reason guys like Metabones are in business are because everyone wants Canon glass on their Alpha 7s for video lol.


This is definitely true. And as someone who will probably stick with Canon for the stills side of things, I'm going for the $99 Fotodiox adapters to work those lenses into the Sony/Panasonic video environments. Though Metabones makes nice enough adapters that they are worth the price.

Canon is probably smart to take the strategy that they have, which is that they can make money in the full-frame world without committing to video. But, that's gonna bite them 3-5 years down the line when everyone is making the compromise that I am now decides "hey, you know what, Sony and Sigma now have enough lenses that I can transition".

Or worse...people will realize Canon FD lenses are an incredible value on every camera that isnt Canon EOS. They basically build the perfect, cheap, lens line for Sony A7 cine work


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