# RT-enabled 430EX II replacement



## sagittariansrock (Mar 7, 2014)

I have seen speculations and rumors on this forum since a year back regarding replacements to the 430EX II, but nothing has materialized. On the other hand, there are significant rebates on the 600EX-RT, which makes me wonder if Canon wants to abolish this second line of Speedlites altogether? What do you guys think? What are the relative merits of having a cheaper 600EX-RT vs a smaller 430EX replacement.


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## privatebydesign (Mar 7, 2014)

Having been using the 600-EX-RT's, the ST-E3-RT, and the YN-E3-RT for a while now and I can say I will only buy 600's, I thought I'd be interested in 450-EX-RT's but there is no doubt they would have some restrictions over the 600's and I am very happy with the performance of the RT system as it is.

So no, I am not interested in a 400 series RT, a YN-600-RT or pretty much anything else RT, just 600's and ST's are good for me. 

Others I am sure will want studio flash integration, but that is not a serious issue for me, I have never found the need for constantly altering my studio style setups so don't have the need for remote control as much as with speedlites.


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## Jim Saunders (Mar 8, 2014)

A 4xx-RT flash? I'd give up strobe, optical triggering, and a linear tradeoff between reduced GN and reduced price. I could take or leave using it as a master, but provision for an external battery is a must. I could see using them for background fill, for a shot like the one attached. Gorram black-hole arenas...

Jim


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## RLPhoto (Mar 8, 2014)

I'd like a 440rt. If it's the same price as the 430exII, I wouldn't look at many third party options if I was starting out again. Canon will eventually release it and it will sell like hotcakes.


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## Marsu42 (Mar 8, 2014)

RLPhoto said:


> Canon will eventually release it and it will sell like hotcakes.



By this point, I somehow doubt that. Yn will have their clone 600ex flashes out by then (if you want to have more flash power @lower price and probably reliability) and is going ahead with other rt equipment. Unless they completely bomb Canon has a problem: The 600rt price has dropped some, and the 440rt will be most introduced at the usual higher starting price - so except bulk/weight there will be the usual long list of disadvantages of the "small brother".

My guess is that Canon will wait until they release a new camera body with integrated rt controller to have a slave-only 440rt go along with it. 7d2 anyone  ?


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## RLPhoto (Mar 8, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > Canon will eventually release it and it will sell like hotcakes.
> ...



Even with the yn versions of the 580II and the 430II, they still sold like hotcakes. (Even though much more expensive. ) So I'm sure the new RT versions will also.


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## digital paradise (Mar 14, 2014)

I voted keep the 600, no 430 update. Unless Canon goes to RT in the body you need another flash or the STE3 to make RT worth it. If you are going off camera then you are looking at modifiers down the road that require more power. I think serious off camera shooters will want more power. YN will not come not come out with a smaller version of the 600 clone (whenever it comes out) just because it will be reasonably priced and there will be competition from others one day. Besides if Canon comes out with a 430 RT why would people buy it when they can get a YN 600 for the same price. 

I think Canon will keep the 430 non RT for you basic single flash on camera photog. They may update it to make it sound more fancy. Heck they may even just drop that line one day which would make the 320 the basic intro flash. I could be wrong but YN came out with their own transmitter within 2 years of Canon's STE3 which is ½ the price. As a business you have to think about R&D and manufacturing change costs vs return on investment. I'd focus on pricing current RT products more competitively. They are going to feel it when YN comes out with the RT flash. Others like Godox are around the corner.


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## privatebydesign (Mar 14, 2014)

digital paradise said:


> I voted keep the 600, no 430 update. Unless Canon goes to RT in the body you need another flash or the STE3 to make RT worth it. If you are going off camera then you are looking at modifiers down the road that require more power. I think serious off camera shooters will want more power. YN will not come not come out with a smaller version of the 600 clone (whenever it comes out) just because it will be reasonably priced and there will be competition from others one day. Besides if Canon comes out with a 430 RT why would people buy it when they can get a YN 600 for the same price.
> 
> I think Canon will keep the 430 non RT for you basic single flash on camera photog. They may update it to make it sound more fancy. Heck they may even just drop that line one day which would make the 320 the basic intro flash. I could be wrong but YN came out with their own transmitter within 2 years of Canon's STE3 which is ½ the price. As a business you have to think about R&D and manufacturing change costs vs return on investment. I'd focus on pricing current RT products more competitively. *They are going to feel it when YN comes out with the RT flash.* Others like Godox are around the corner.



I don't believe so. People with >$2,000 cameras and $450 flashes are not as concerned about saving $100 on a trigger, and the YN-E3-RT is only $100 less than the ST-E3-RT. The YN-E3-RT's big/only selling point is the added functionality primarily for pre 2012 bodies, if the YN-600-RT is only $100 less than the 600-EX-RT then I don't see it being the run away success so many forum posters do, the Phottix Mitros+ is $399, a mere $46 less than a 600-EX-RT!

The choice of third party flash systems and functionality is a big and growing area, but like tripods, after all the headlines and excitement have died down the reliable and solid performers win through. Canon flashes will always work on Canon cameras, Yongnuo/Godox/Phottix flashes might work on Canon cameras if you have a copy of Windows 7, the latest firmware, and Yongnuo/Godox/Phottix are still supporting it, though their MkII versions might not and are unlikely to work with their MkI versions anyway. For most people in the >$2,000 cameras and $450 flash market that unknowable current and future compatibility and untested configuration reliability is worth way more than $50-100.


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## digital paradise (Mar 14, 2014)

If you are right you will make a lot of people happy. Personally if I am going to go off camera flash I go big or go home  I have 3 600's and the STE3. Love it.


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## privatebydesign (Mar 14, 2014)

digital paradise said:


> If you are right you will make a lot of people happy. Personally if I am going to go off camera flash I go big or go home  I have 3 600's and the STE3. Love it.



Exactly, that is the feeling of many people with modern cameras and $450 flashes, the third party savings are just not worth it unless you are using older cameras or need a very specific differentiating feature.


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## digital paradise (Mar 14, 2014)

I guess I'm getting mixed vibes at other sites. Mostly POTN and DPreview. People don't want to pay Canon prices. There was quite a long thread at POTN when YN RT was announced. Lot people of waited for the YNE3 release. I read the AF assist is sketchy on cameras like the 5D3 and I don't miss second curtain sync. Very happy with the Canon product.


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## GMCPhotographics (Mar 14, 2014)

I bought a pair of 600RT's an a trigger. They work and were worth every penny....naturally I found a great UK seller who wanted £315 for the flashes...which was about half what the RRP and every other seller was selling them for! I sold my 430 and 580, which paid for one flash. The versatility, the ease of use and the recycle time have more than paid for them selves in a professional capacity.
If you want the best, then it's worth saving for the Canon kit...everything else is 2nd rate for a reason.


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## unfocused (Mar 14, 2014)

While I might be interested in a lower cost strobe to supplement the 600 RT, I am certain it won't be able to use an external battery pack, which is a deal breaker for me. 

The 600 RT has come down enough in price that for a savings of $100 or so, it's just not worth it. Also, I'm not interested if the menu system isn't identical (which it probably wouldn't be). I really don't want to learn yet another set of buttons.

Frankly, my biggest concern is what happens when the next generation comes out. I'm heavily invested now in the system: five 600 RTs plus the ST-R3 and not looking forward to having to start afresh again if Canon comes out with some super new technology.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Mar 14, 2014)

In this matter I am jealous of my friends Nikon shooters. ??? The mid-range flash SB700 can also serve as Master Wireless. It is true that flash Nikon does not use radio as Canon RT, but has variety of models to serve as Master. : I think the Canon 600EX RT great, but too big and heavy (and expensive). Why Canon can not offer a 430EX RT model, which also serves as Master? :-[


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## privatebydesign (Mar 14, 2014)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> In this matter I am jealous of my friends Nikon shooters. ??? The mid-range flash SB700 can also serve as Master Wireless. It is true that flash Nikon does not use radio as Canon RT, but has variety of models to serve as Master. : I think the Canon 600EX RT great, but too big and heavy (and expensive). Why Canon can not offer a 430EX RT model, which also serves as Master? :-[



Get a $150 550EX, or a $240 580EX. Plenty of cheap Canon controllers out there if you look. I used 550EX's for many years (until I got the 600's last year) and had no reliability issues with them, they are cheap, they work with every EOS ever and always will, they are controllers, they have basically the same power as the 600 they just don't zoom as far, what's to not love?


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## Marsu42 (Mar 14, 2014)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> I think the Canon 600EX RT great, but too big and heavy (and expensive).



I tend to agree with "expensive", though often there are Canon rebate programs and even without them the 600rt is as expensive as Nikon's flagship with added 3rd party radio triggers.

However, after some time I have come to value the 600rt system - if you use light modifiers and/or shoot in bright outdoors with hss, big and heavy is the least concern if the flash "just works". Remember it might be big, but it doesn't need the clutter of an added receiver - and the 200mm zoom lets you concentrate the light more effectively where you want it also w/o an added modifier.

I'm going to sell my 430ex2, it's really nice to carry less weight esp. on a bracket, but except for bounce in small rooms it's just too weak.


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## privatebydesign (Mar 14, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> ajfotofilmagem said:
> 
> 
> > I think the Canon 600EX RT great, but too big and heavy (and expensive).
> ...



Nikon SB 910 street price today $546.95 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/832699-USA/Nikon_4809_SB_910_AF_Speedlight_i_TTL.html

Canon 600-EX-RT street price today $449.00 http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=productDetail&A=cart&Q=add

Nikon no radio, Canon radio included. THE 600-EX-RT IS NOT OVERPRICED; when compared to the competition it is cheap!


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## unfocused (Mar 14, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> Marsu42 said:
> 
> 
> > ajfotofilmagem said:
> ...



That's U.S. pricing. I imagine Marsu would like to be able to pay U.S. prices rather than Euros.


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## JonAustin (Mar 14, 2014)

I didn't get in on the poll, but really don't have a clue what Canon is going to do, anyway. Depending on one's needs and point of view, you could make an argument for any of the options (hopeful outcomes).

I really like the 600 RT system, and am very happy that I bought 4 of them nearly 2 years ago, even though they were going for almost $600 a pop. The radio triggering and new menu system in the 600s are golden. I sold my 3 580 II's for more than I paid for them, and a 420 for $30 less than my purchase price.

When I'm using flash, I want all the options I can get, and don't want any compromises. That's why I bought all 600's and no ST-E3-RTs ... the savings in size and weight didn't make up for the loss of AF assist.


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## sagittariansrock (Mar 15, 2014)

The 600-EX-RT is both very nice (it is great to have the added functions over the 430EX II, and I haven't even used the RT functions- have just one) and reasonably priced. But I miss the size and weight of the 430.
I understand if they bring out a 450-EX-RT it will probably not be much cheaper than the 600, and will probably not be worth the trade-off in functions- but it will be lighter and smaller, and than can be tempting.
As I am moving into off-camera flash more, I am trying to decide whether to buy a 600 now or 450 later (rather buy a 600 now anyway, and then decide whether to sell it for a 450 if that ever comes).


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## pwp (Mar 15, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> RLPhoto said:
> 
> 
> > Canon will eventually release it and it will sell like hotcakes.
> ...


While I don't own 430EXII, preferring my pair of 580EXII for greater output and facility for an external power source, I see the 430EXII as an ideal flash for most people with relatively modest needs. Which is most people. Not anyone at CR of course! It's small, light, reliable and less expensive, with the cache of _perceived_ Genuine Canon seal of quality.

The reality is that the greatest majority of Canon shooters will have never heard of Yongnuo, let alone trust a non-Canon product. Those _"in the know"_ will see no issues with a Yongnuo purchase and probably do so with a practical knowledge of any genuine shortcomings (if any) compared to the Canon original. 

The current 430EXII will continue to sell in large numbers probably for years, I suspect it outsells the 600EX-RT. A 430 EX-RT would certainly be a successful product for Canon, but I wouldn't be holding my breath waiting for an announcement. 

-pw


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## AvTvM (Mar 15, 2014)

Canon RT system is a brilliant and highly useful innovation for anyone ever using wireless flash. Unfortunately they chose to bring it in in the most limited manner only. 1 flagship speedlite, 1 controller - everything reliably working but with some (unnecessary) functional limitations. Priced at canon prices. An "affordable investment" for pros earning money with it and for well-heeled enthusiasts. BUT a fairly steep hurdle for all other Canon users.

I am convinced Canon would gain a lot by also introducing not only a sensibly-priced 430EX-RT but also a TX-RT transceiver that would allow to also include 580EX II / 430 EX II (possibly also mk 1) speedlites in a radio wireless setup. Ideally also select studio strobes where makers cooperate with Canon. Use of other third party ettl speedlites could be inhibited via some chip in such a canon RT transceiver. 

By now, it would not hurt 600EX sales that much, since many who want and need them have purchased already. But it would go a long ways to make the Canon ecosystem even more useful and attractive to all existing users and to potential new clients. At least to everyone considering using wireless flash setups. 

It would really be win/win for both Canon and their customers. They qould sell a ton of 430RTs and RT transceivers ... at very healthy margins.


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## Marsu42 (Mar 15, 2014)

AvTvM said:


> By now, it would not hurt 600EX sales that much, since many who want and need them have purchased already.



I doubt it because many people will have held back purchaising *more* 600rt because of the price and the expected 430ex successor - once the price drops a bit and there's no telling when and if a little brother will arrive, many people will "bite the bullet". I know I did.



pwp said:


> The current 430EXII will continue to sell in large numbers probably for years, I suspect it outsells the 600EX-RT.



And there's a reason for this - people buying a 430ex2 like I did back than use it on camera for direct flash or bounce, so weight and size matters. Once you get the flashes off camera which is the whole point of the rt system, these factors don't matter that much anymore, but power and recycling time do - so the advantage of a little rt unit is diminishing to the targeted users, at least for me.


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## bholliman (Mar 15, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> And there's a reason for this - people buying a 430ex2 like I did back than use it on camera for direct flash or bounce, so weight and size matters. Once you get the flashes off camera which is the whole point of the rt system, these factors don't matter that much anymore, but power and recycling time do - so the advantage of a little rt unit is diminishing to the targeted users, at least for me.


+ 1

Personally, I wouldn't be interested in a RT version of the 430EXII. I currently have 2 600EX-RT's and 1 430EXII. I use the 430 on-camera any time I plan to bounce or use direct fill flash since its smaller and lighter. I plan to buy another 600 or two to expand my RT flash capabilities, but will continue to use the 430 on-camera.


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## bholliman (Mar 15, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> And there's a reason for this - people buying a 430ex2 like I did back than use it on camera for direct flash or bounce, so weight and size matters. Once you get the flashes off camera which is the whole point of the rt system, these factors don't matter that much anymore, but power and recycling time do - so the advantage of a little rt unit is diminishing to the targeted users, at least for me.


+ 1

Personally, I wouldn't be interested in a RT version of the 430EXII. I currently have 2 600EX-RT's and 1 430EXII. I use the 430 on-camera any time I plan to bounce or use direct fill flash since its smaller and lighter. I plan to buy another 600 or two to expand my RT flash capabilities, but will continue to use the 430 on-camera when I plan to just use a single flash.


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## digital paradise (Mar 15, 2014)

AvTvM said:


> I am convinced Canon would gain a lot by also introducing not only a sensibly-priced 430EX-RT but also a TX-RT transceiver that would allow to also include 580EX II / 430 EX II (possibly also mk 1) speedlites in a radio wireless setup. Ideally also select studio strobes where makers cooperate with Canon. Use of other third party ettl speedlites could be inhibited via some chip in such a canon RT transceiver.



I'm not sure about that one. Going backwards. RT is the future and besides as business I would not want to sell my customers something so they can keep using older technology. I would want to sell them new toys. Just look at the computer and cell phone industry.


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