# Canon may introduce a new menu system in upcoming cameras [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 4, 2021)

> I have been told a couple of times now that Canon is working on a new menu system for upcoming cameras. I don’t know how far along in development Canon is, but I would think the EOS R1 would be a good place to introduce something new.
> One of the sources claims that you will be able to select the “Canon Classic” menu system or the new menu system on your camera. This makes a lot of sense, lots of people love familiarity, especially on professional bodies, but new users to the system would probably be inclined to learn the new menu system.
> Canon has always had a great menu system, but I think it has started feeling cumbersome on the EOS R5, as the breadth and depth of options continue to grow.
> Before you ask, I doubt we would see a firmware update to give cameras like the EOS R5 or EOS R6 the new menu system.
> More...



Continue reading...


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## Chaitanya (Mar 4, 2021)

Why? its not really necessary.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 4, 2021)

Chaitanya said:


> Why? its not really necessary.



I could think of things that could be improved. Especially "My Menu".


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## BeenThere (Mar 4, 2021)

Chaitanya said:


> Why? its not really necessary.


Wait and see how it changes. Maybe you will like it better than the current menu; if not, then stay with the old one.


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## Chaitanya (Mar 4, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I could think of things that could be improved. Especially "My Menu".


I rarely use My menu option, although for some reason the customizable quick control never made it lower end cameras(x0D) and it was really useful to reduce clutter and have only settings which are frequently changed to be made avl in quick menu.


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## davidhfe (Mar 4, 2021)

Seems like the R1 would be the worst place to implement it. People who use these bodies tend to not like tons of changes.

Related—any time I see the option to stick with an old interface it makes me think the new one isn’t very good.


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## BradC (Mar 4, 2021)

If they would drill down and really separate the camera into two components and separate whats really necessary for stills and video, it might help the overwhelming feeling. When you switch dials it should totally be configured for each accordingly.


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## peters (Mar 4, 2021)

Chaitanya said:


> Why? its not really necessary.


The old one starts to feel pretty "full". Maybe a new innovative sytem could improve that. Time will tell. I must say that I am happy in general, though I see room for improvement in the R5.
Biggest problem are Settings that "block" each other. For example I cant activate e-shutter, while flicker reduction is on. Instead of asking "hey, flicker reduction is on, shall I deactivate it for you, so you can use e-shutter?" it just gives me NO information at all, while this function is disabled. Some options are not even greyed out but simply disapear and I have to figure out what other option (on a page faaar away) is blocking this function...


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## Rocksthaman (Mar 4, 2021)

davidhfe said:


> Seems like the R1 would be the worst place to implement it. People who use these bodies tend to not like tons of changes.
> 
> Related—any time I see the option to stick with an old interface it makes me think the new one isn’t very good.


This. I can’t think of a worse time.

On short notice before the Olympics, with new equipment, with fewer options to put the camera through its paces. It actually feels like the reasoning to not change the Mount in the markiii.

Can you imagine the photography version of the ibis wobble on the R5/R6 when shooting wide in video.


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## privatebydesign (Mar 4, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I could think of things that could be improved. Especially "My Menu".


It’s funny how different things suit different people, I love ‘My Menu’ and have all the things I regularly change in there. My AF control went way up when I separated the three variables onto a my menu page rather than work with the clunky modes and changes within those.


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## Gino_FOTO (Mar 4, 2021)

A fully customizable quick menu will make a great improvement in overall usability, some settings there, which I never even touched, on the other hand, I must hunting for the others deeply in the settings all the time.


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## StandardLumen (Mar 4, 2021)

I'm happy to hear this. Coming from Sony, the Canon menu system was a huge upgrade, but I still feel like it has room for significant improvement.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 4, 2021)

If they plan to add a lot more options on the new models, then a new system might help. Right now, Canon has a much friendlier interface than Nikon or Sony, but things can always be improved. Like others, I've pretty well mastered the existing system, but still need to hunt for some features. I wonder if they are adding a search bar? That might help if its done right. Few simple search engines do it right, a good one accounts for poor spelling, and looks for alternate terms. If you enter jpg, it might also offer a group of items related to image format.


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## unfocused (Mar 4, 2021)

davidhfe said:


> Seems like the R1 would be the worst place to implement it. People who use these bodies tend to not like tons of changes.
> 
> Related—any time I see the option to stick with an old interface it makes me think the new one isn’t very good.


To me, this is just one more bit of evidence that the R1 is not aimed at the same professional audience as the 1D series. 1D for the dying breed of working professional sports/journalist photographers. R1 for the growing pool of enthusiasts who can afford and want the most expensive model regardless of whether or not they need it.


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## calfoto (Mar 4, 2021)

If Canon was really on the ball they could implement a menu option to display “New” or ”Legacy” menu views - really not a reason this couldn’t work on the R5/6 cameras as well


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## koenkooi (Mar 4, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> It’s funny how different things suit different people, I love ‘My Menu’ and have all the things I regularly change in there. My AF control went way up when I separated the three variables onto a my menu page rather than work with the clunky modes and changes within those.


"My Menu" + C1/C2/C3 covers almost everything I want to quickly change without having to know where items are in the regular menu.


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## armd (Mar 4, 2021)

Chaitanya said:


> Why? its not really necessary.


Agreed. Instead they should fix the issues that still photographers want including zebras, more button programmability, ES speeds other than 20 fps....


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## COBRASoft (Mar 4, 2021)

The younger generation might see the current menu system like the older generation sees msdos... It's time for an overhaul and bring the menu system to 21st century. 
Nikon and sony offer much more fine gained control than Canon. This is something that could be added in an advanced section in the menu.


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## Hector1970 (Mar 4, 2021)

unfocused said:


> To me, this is just one more bit of evidence that the R1 is not aimed at the same professional audience as the 1D series. 1D for the dying breed of working professional sports/journalist photographers. R1 for the growing pool of enthusiasts who can afford and want the most expensive model regardless of whether or not they need it.


I’d agree. It’s certainly moving that way. Not even sure high end gear is a must for what’s being printed and going on line. The R1 especially if it’s more compact than a 1DXIII will be aimed at that super enthusiast who wants the best camera ever.


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## Hector1970 (Mar 4, 2021)

Menu updates are an inevitability. The existing one is looking old fashioned. It’s been a great menu system , very consistent between models.
I’d contrast it to Olympus who developed a terrible menu system
There must however in the mean time been more clever ways to organise and customise .
Certainly a hard separation between video and photo would be a start.
Focus options could somehow be smarter (or dumber - what are you shooting today - birds - may I suggest option 2(b) bird in flight mode?)
Canon will anyway want to make the camera feel refreshed and modern in all aspects.
It’s a risk though users get comfortable with what they know.


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## Rocksthaman (Mar 4, 2021)

Hector1970 said:


> I’d agree. It’s certainly moving that way. Not even sure high end gear is a must for what’s being printed and going on line. The R1 especially if it’s more compact than a 1DXIII will be aimed at that super enthusiast who wants the best camera ever.


The Super enthusiast. I like the sound of that.

Honey, where is my super suit ?


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## todddominey (Mar 4, 2021)

Very much dislike the still/video switching interface on the R5 (video options aren't visible when pressing "Mode" - you also have to press "Info"). Feels more cumbersome than it should be.


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## Stu_bert (Mar 4, 2021)

The only reasonable justification I can think of would be if the new bodies have a more advanced gfx module (not entirely sure if this is part of digic or something else, but I do recall that there is dedicated hw to assist in the UI)

If not, then honestly Canon should get a kick up the rear if they don’t offer this on the existing R5/R6. Improving the UI is something they should make pervasive, not something you only get if you upgrade. 

and like others I can think of several changes
- hide whole menus I don’t use
- hide entries out of menus
- change the order of menus
- name menus (even if only my menu)
- tag options to add to My menu, not having a long scroll list
- remove the entry limit on my menu
- menu to show what my c1/2/3 settings are in comparison to the defaults
- menu to allow me to name c1/2/3
- menu to load/save/clone/rename c1/2/3
- assign menu item to button (multiple press to toggle through the options)
- menus only specific to video when I am in a video mode and vice versa 
- ability to override greyed out items and it tells me what it had to reset to allow me access


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## SteveC (Mar 4, 2021)

davidhfe said:


> Seems like the R1 would be the worst place to implement it. People who use these bodies tend to not like tons of changes.
> 
> Related—any time I see the option to stick with an old interface it makes me think the new one isn’t very good.


There have been plenty of times the new one sucks and you _don't_ have the option too.

I still won't voluntarily use the microshaft orifice "ribbon." My home machine still uses office 2003.


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## usern4cr (Mar 4, 2021)

There are a lot of ways to improve the menu system, so I very much look forward to a choice of a new menu system in the future.

But if they are going to do this, why hasn't Canon Japan openly asked for feedback from users like us (around the world) towards what features we'd like to see and how we'd like the menu system organized? If they got enough input from the people that really use it, then they'd be able to make a much better menu system in the future.

And any new menu system ought to be an option on the R5 & R6 (at least) as they are the latest bodies available and are still the main ones being sold and supported. The feedback from those users alone would be a good enough reason to offer the choice to them. Beyond that, it would increase the sales of the R5 & R6 which will continue for quite a while in parallel with whatever new bodies they are about to introduce.


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## jvillain (Mar 4, 2021)

Allowing me to disable the entire green section would be a great quality of life improvement. Who actually edits photos on their camera? Personally I would vote for doing away with it all together.


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## Kannon (Mar 4, 2021)

At last something to whine about


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## Hector1970 (Mar 4, 2021)

Rocksthaman said:


> The Super enthusiast. I like the sound of that.
> 
> Honey, where is my super suit ?


You'll have to wear your underpants on the outside


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## definedphotography (Mar 4, 2021)

todddominey said:


> Very much dislike the still/video switching interface on the R5 (video options aren't visible when pressing "Mode" - you also have to press "Info"). Feels more cumbersome than it should be.



Yep, it is very clunky.
Luckily you can customize it to make switching a single button press.


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## docsmith (Mar 4, 2021)

Hector1970 said:


> I’d agree. It’s certainly moving that way. Not even sure high end gear is a must for what’s being printed and going on line. The R1 especially if it’s more compact than a 1DXIII will be aimed at that super enthusiast who wants the best camera ever.


I totally want the best camera ever. That sounds amazing.


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## mdcmdcmdc (Mar 4, 2021)

davidhfe said:


> Seems like the R1 would be the worst place to implement it. People who use these bodies tend to not like tons of changes.
> 
> Related—any time I see the option to stick with an old interface it makes me think the new one isn’t very good.


In principle I agree. If your livelihood depends on your images, you want to come up to speed as quickly as possible with the new hardware. A familiar menu system is definitely helpful 

Maybe a couple of CPS articles telling why Canon thinks the new system is “better” and how it benefits working pros will help the transition.


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## cayenne (Mar 4, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> It’s funny how different things suit different people, I love ‘My Menu’ and have all the things I regularly change in there. My AF control went way up when I separated the three variables onto a my menu page rather than work with the clunky modes and changes within those.


/me runs to turn on Canon camera and look for My Menu to see what it is all about....


I love to learn about something new every day.
C


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## keithcooper (Mar 4, 2021)

The comments here are a blast from the past relating to my previous career in usability and interface design.
I almost feel sorry for any person trying to make sense of such a disparate collection of requirements ;-)

Let's hope there really is a 'classic' mode available for fallback - a lot of photographers are very attached to stuff that means nothing to others.

The fact that I've read 50% of comments here and wondered what people were talking about indicates rather too much my general simple approach to using cameras.


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## Aaron D (Mar 4, 2021)

I wouldn't at all mind seeing better clarity. I may be a little thick-skulled, but I can't get my mind wrapped around that damned AF menu to save my life. 

And I would love to see a computer based outline of all possible settings so I could see them spread out in one place and with fewer abbreviations. I could look it'll over and think about options away from the pressure of a shoot, and then load it into the camera whole. Or a second body, even.


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## Aaron D (Mar 4, 2021)

Hector1970 said:


> Menu updates are an inevitability. The existing one is looking old fashioned. It’s been a great menu system , very consistent between models.
> I’d contrast it to Olympus who developed a terrible menu system
> There must however in the mean time been more clever ways to organise and customise .
> Certainly a hard separation between video and photo would be a start.
> ...


I agree with "...clever ways to organize..." And they could begin the reassessment with their Users Manuals. I have never seen such obfuscation outside of a Kafka novel. Those tiny books and even the on-line PDFs drive me to despair. There's this mindset that says more levels of emphasis the better: capitalize, underline, bold type, italic type, blue boxes, teeny icons that mean nothing if you haven't memorized them before you even know what they mean or do.

OK, sorry to vent. Wish it was more therapeutic.


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## Alan B (Mar 4, 2021)

Maybe they are going to go all 3d with the look of the menu ?. Rather than the normal "CLASSIC" flat look!


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## PilslF (Mar 4, 2021)

If I could add more C1-C3 in a soft mode, that would help. Switching shooting setups styles I like quickly to all the different cases I work with, would be cool.
EVen just registering multiple ones off camera in the EOS Utilities, etc
I definitely would like to see this as something that can be put in the r5/6


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## AlanF (Mar 4, 2021)

Just have voice instructions and do away with menus.


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## zim (Mar 4, 2021)

AlanF said:


> Just have voice instructions and do away with menus.


No chance!


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## David - Sydney (Mar 5, 2021)

Remap the Rate button? 
The R5 video selection menu is nice compared to previous models but you can't select 4k/120 without other menu items being selected first. If 1080/120 is coming in the next firmware release then it will be interesting where they put it.


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## Chaitanya (Mar 5, 2021)

Gino_FOTO said:


> A fully customizable quick menu will make a great improvement in overall usability, some settings there, which I never even touched, on the other hand, I must hunting for the others deeply in the settings all the time.


Custom Quick controls were made available on 5Ds/R and 5D Mark 4(not sure if they are available on 1DX).


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## privatebydesign (Mar 5, 2021)

Chaitanya said:


> Custom Quick controls were made available on 5Ds/R and 5D Mark 4(not sure if they are available on 1DX).


1DX II does.


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## SnowMiku (Mar 5, 2021)

As long as they have the option to go back to the old menu and not have missing features compared to the new menu that should keep everyone happy. But I can only see them doing this for one generation, then the next generation they will just have the new menu only. I've read reports of people having AF Front/Back focus issues with Mirrorless, so adding a smart AFMA menu would be good.


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## koenkooi (Mar 5, 2021)

PilslF said:


> If I could add more C1-C3 in a soft mode, that would help. Switching shooting setups styles I like quickly to all the different cases I work with, would be cool.
> EVen just registering multiple ones off camera in the EOS Utilities, etc
> I definitely would like to see this as something that can be put in the r5/6


With the R and R5 top screen being a real screen, I would go a step further and allow naming of custom modes, so no 'C3Tv', but 'birds', no 'C1M', but 'bugs', etc.


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## degos (Mar 5, 2021)

Chaitanya said:


> Why? its not really necessary.



Think about how many clicks are required to create a new folder, which I do at least a dozen times on each shoot. It's ridiculously inefficient and time-wasting.


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## AccipiterQ (Mar 5, 2021)

Why wouldn't they do it for the R5 & R6? It's not that hard if they're already doing it on the R1


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## GoldWing (Mar 5, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


As someone who has been commited to1DX 1DXII and 1DXIII (fighting and kicking) owning two bodies of each for 24 photographer's kits as pros who can use the cameras in the dark.... please don't change the UI. If you do, have an option to revert to legacy mode. Thank you. "Don't buy Coca-Cola and rename it "Jungle Juice"


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## YEUP (Mar 6, 2021)

#1 fix needed now in the R5 is to put back the way the Q menu/Q button works in all the previous DSLRs that had the Q button. How they have broken this important feature and not fixed it yet is a mystery to me.

Now I have to do three button presses to get the Q menu on the rear screen if I am shooting with the viewfinder. Crazy horrible oversight on Canon's part.


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## YEUP (Mar 6, 2021)

Chaitanya said:


> Custom Quick controls were made available on 5Ds/R and 5D Mark 4(not sure if they are available on 1DX).


Amazing I had a 5D IV for years and never new this feature was there. Now I am stuck with an R5 that feels like it is seriously broken.


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## Bundu (Mar 6, 2021)

GoldWing said:


> As someone who has been commited to1DX 1DXII and 1DXIII (fighting and kicking) owning two bodies of each for 24 photographer's kits as pros who can use the cameras in the dark.... please don't change the UI. If you do, have an option to revert to legacy mode. Thank you. "Don't buy Coca-Cola and rename it "Jungle Juice"


I have 3 R5 bodies. It would be fantastic if I could just copy settings from one body to the others!!!


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## ctk (Mar 6, 2021)

I just want more customization. Let me build the Q menu like Sony does with Fn. And make the button/dial customization fully flexible. My old A7II had better customization than my EOS R.


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## usern4cr (Mar 6, 2021)

Bundu said:


> I have 3 R5 bodies. It would be fantastic if I could just copy settings from one body to the others!!!


3 R5 bodies? Wow, I guess you could call it an R15! 

But seriously, does Canon really expect us with an R5 (or R6) to consider buying a 2nd body with a different menu system on each? And if you have to choose the "old" style menu system to keep them the same then you'd feel that you're missing out on the "upgraded" menu system on the new body. It's much simpler to just offer the optional menu upgrade on (at least) the R5 & R6 since they're the current main bodies being sold, and it increases the value of the R5/6 for those who want to buy it now or in the future.


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## Lenscracker (Mar 6, 2021)

My problem exactly. I waste a lot of time trying to figure out what selection is blocking the the selection that I am trying to implement.


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## snappy604 (Mar 6, 2021)

I cautiously look forward to it.. first iterations often miss the mark, but looks like they're giving options to not use it.
The sheer # of things the camera can do now has evolved over a long period of time and Canon did a good job refining it, but sometimes you just have to rethink and restart from scratch. I often get puzzled where to find things I don't use often, so if there is a better way.. great!


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## dilbert (Mar 7, 2021)

privatebydesign said:


> It’s funny how different things suit different people, I love ‘My Menu’ and have all the things I regularly change in there. My AF control went way up when I separated the three variables onto a my menu page rather than work with the clunky modes and changes within those.



I am the same. I don't know how anyone could be a regular user of a Canon digital camera and not use My Menu.

My only complaints with My Menu is that not everything can go there and that not all settings are in the menu system. There's also the lack of consistecy across all levels of camera (for no apparent reason.)

I would love to be able to lock various settings so that on cameras where shutter speed, aperture and ISO are easily modified, that accidental knocks or turns didn't modify them.


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## dirtyvu (Mar 7, 2021)

I think the Canon menu system is by far the best menu system of all the major camera systems. I think the Sony is by far the worst. I've owned the RX100 IV, the 6300, and the A7R3 and if they didn't provide the ability to customize, the system would've been a complete disaster. It's like they gave the software programmers no direction on UI or UX. You can hand a Canon camera to a novice and they can figure it out. Heck, they even have help text that appears next to the menu option.

If there's anything that Canon can really do is... some options aren't available when certain settings are enabled. If they could make it so that if you change a setting, that it would change all the accompanying settings too, that would help a lot.


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## DBounce (Mar 7, 2021)

Chaitanya said:


> Why? its not really necessary.


Agreed, canon have reached the pinnacle of what is possible. Why bother attempting to impose on perfection? But you know what’s funny? Back in 2014, Samsung released a camera called the NX1; and its UI put every camera’s UI to shame. It’s been seven years since that release, and guess what? It still puts every cameras UI to shame. And you know what else? It came with an OLED screen.

Hell yeah, I’ll take a new “modern “ UI. One that is intuitive, easy and customizable. And I’ll take a rear OLED please that is at least 4”-5”. FFS, are we living in the freaking dark ages?

How I wish Samsung would release a NX1 Mk2. If for nothing else just to show the rest of the industry what is possible.


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## cayenne (Mar 8, 2021)

dilbert said:


> I am the same. I don't know how anyone could be a regular user of a Canon digital camera and not use My Menu.
> 
> My only complaints with My Menu is that not everything can go there and that not all settings are in the menu system. There's also the lack of consistecy across all levels of camera (for no apparent reason.)
> 
> I would love to be able to lock various settings so that on cameras where shutter speed, aperture and ISO are easily modified, that accidental knocks or turns didn't modify them.


I guess it depends on if you make a lot of system menu changes.

For the most part, once I have my camera set up, I rarely go into the menu system for anything really.

I might pop in there if I want to set it to do a multi-exposure set of shots from time to time....I go in there to format my cards.

I shoot exclusively in RAW, so I don't have to worry about picture profiles, etc....

I will admit, I've never messed much with the different AF settings and honestly, I think I may try to pick a weekend and figure that out and see what all it can do, but to date, I've pretty much left that to default and haven't had a problem.

I really had never noticed the "My Menu" on the 5D3 I have....

I may to play with that too...always fun to discover new things about your tools/toys.


cayenne


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## Jack Douglas (Mar 8, 2021)

Aaron D said:


> I wouldn't at all mind seeing better clarity. I may be a little thick-skulled, but I can't get my mind wrapped around that damned AF menu to save my life.
> 
> And I would love to see a computer based outline of all possible settings so I could see them spread out in one place and with fewer abbreviations. I could look it'll over and think about options away from the pressure of a shoot, and then load it into the camera whole. Or a second body, even.


I like this idea of seeing a computer version that might be able to add some clarity when a person is familiarizing themselves with a new camera. It could have explanations that can't fit in the camera version and helpful advice on preferred setting, etc.

Jack


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## dcm (Mar 9, 2021)

Food for thought.

This discussion takes me back many years to my role as an architect in a large software system. My role - go 10 years down the road, come back and tell us what you found. The system already supported many features and could be extended with additional features over time in a multilayer menu structure. I called it the "menu bar from hell". In 1991, I pointed out the menu structure would soon crumble under it's own weight and become unusable. I built a new navigation model and prototype of our system based on customizable hypermedia/text that could incorporate user defined workflows. I'd been using hypermedia for a few years by then and had studied hypermedia research going back to the mid 1970s. It would have been revolutionary in our market and others, but the organization was not ready to move in that direction so I moved on. Ten years later someone told me they were finally doing what I had proposed and started moving their user interface to a web browser. They felt they were a bit late to the party by then. 

The technology existed for a long time and continued to improve. But two other things needed to happen. The developers needed to be ready to embrace the new technology rather than hold on to the old, familiar way of doing things. The user community needs to be ready to adopt the new approach as well, since it may be too unfamiliar from their existing ways as well. Timing is everything.

Which brings us to today. User experience technology has continued to evolve. Smart phones have changed the entire user experience. You don't see traditional menus on most mobile applications. Canon has done a great job with the menu system approach compared to others, much like the group I worked with. And there is obviously a loyal following. But they have probably reached a point of diminishing returns as they try to add more features and improve the ease of use for users. It is likely they have been exploring alternatives for a while and may have learned some things from the mobile community. 

The time might be now. Canon may see this in their demographics. It's likely that Canon recognizes their future customers grew up with smartphones and don't use menu based systems. They consider them archaic and will not buy a product that doesn't have a modern user experience. Which explains why Canon might choose to support both interfaces for a while. 

Quite honestly, I'm looking forward to seeing what they have. So is my 9 yo granddaughter. She lets me do the camera settings for her today - she doesn't get this menu structure stuff. But she is an iPad wizard - she can figure anything out. So is her 4yo sister. It doesn't matter if the images are better if you cannot use the interface.


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## dirtyvu (Mar 9, 2021)

dcm said:


> The time might be now. Canon may see this in their demographics. It's likely that Canon recognizes their future customers grew up with smartphones and don't use menu based systems. They consider them archaic and will not buy a product that doesn't have a modern user experience. Which explains why Canon might choose to support both interfaces for a while.



Settings are settings. There's no way around menus and nesting in settings.






These are iPhone settings. Nested menus. Is the iPhone archaic?

so having to scroll through a long vertical list is modern? Most people have to google how to change a given iPhone setting.


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## SnowMiku (Mar 11, 2021)

I was reading the manual for the 90D, and I learned that you can press the Q or Info button in the Menu to switch to the next main tab, you learn something new everyday haha.


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