# Lee filters and other



## Ladislav (Dec 31, 2015)

I read several other topics about Lee filters on this forum but I still decided to start just another one to get some answers.

I currently have 82mm Hoya HD CPL, Hoya Pro ND8 and ND64 and 67 B+W CPL. I was considering some graduated ND filters as well as 77mm filters for Canon 16-35/4. Buying threaded filters somehow does not scale very well.

I turned my attention to square/rectangular filters - paying for glass only once and using adaptor rings seems much more feasible. It also gives much wider selection of filters and creative options to use graduated ND filters compared to threaded GND filters (I was originally considering 701 and 702 B+W). 

As I understand Lee filters are probably the top when considering this filter set-up and it is something I would like to start with. Looking into Lee's product range I got a lot of questions:


Which system to choose for 16-35/4 FF? Is 4x4 enough or do I need to consider larger 6x6? When will 4x4 start wignetting on this lens?
Glass vs Resin vs ProGlass? What is a difference? Why are all graduated filters Resin only?
CPL - do I need to use Lee's CPL or can I buy CPL from other manufacturer?
Hard or soft edge graduated ND? What is application for hard edge and soft edge?
Are those colored filters of any use for digital photography or is it something which can be easily done in post? Eg. what about those Landscape, Sky, Sunrise and Sunset filter kits?
Is the holder compatible with third party filters? I didn't find reverse graduated ND filter in Lee's offering.
Lee Universal Lens Hood - any experience? Will it vignette on 16-35? Is Lee Wide Angle Lens Hood better? I somehow found this lens hood design very tempting (without any relation to filters) as I sometimes find myself taking pictures through window (different observations or skyscrapers, zoos etc.) and I have to reduce reflections of surrounding - something impossible with regular lens hood.


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## sunnyVan (Dec 31, 2015)

Since you already have hoya filters in 82mm size, you could simply get a step up ring to fit your 16-35 lens. I got one from b+h. Called Sensei pro brass step up ring. It's made of brass, not aluminum so it doesn't stick. (i will never ever buy another non-brass filter)

I used the square Lee filters for a period of time. Even got the GND (hard and soft whole set). Problem is there's too much to carry, not in terms of weight but volumn in the bag. Adapter ring costs unjustifiable amount considering it being a simple piece of plastic. Maybe it's just me being lazy. But to put on a slide-in filter there are too many steps. And so often i can't really put the filter exactly where I need them to be. Reverse GND are expensive too.

Now i just bring a Breakthrough x3 6 stop nd and a CPL in 82mm. Bring a tripod. Hand blend different exposures in Photoshop. Lightroom works ok sometimes. It's actually more natural looking to using GND if you know what you're doing. 

In general you get what you pay for, so buy the best you can afford. It's just my opinion that nd filter and CPL are incredibly useful but GND and color filters belong to the film era


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## Ladislav (Dec 31, 2015)

sunnyVan said:


> In general you get what you pay for, so buy the best you can afford. It's just my opinion that nd filter and CPL are incredibly useful but GND and color filters belong to the film era



I have a similar feeling about color filters, I'm not sure about grads. On the other hand I usually enjoy more taking the picture than trying to "make" the picture on the computer

How do you blend different exposures with and without ND filter when there is any motion? In general I have quite lot of problems to achieve a good exposure blend when there is anything moving in the scene - especially windy conditions with trees in foreground are kind of nightmare for me.


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## sunnyVan (Dec 31, 2015)

Ladislav said:


> sunnyVan said:
> 
> 
> > In general you get what you pay for, so buy the best you can afford. It's just my opinion that nd filter and CPL are incredibly useful but GND and color filters belong to the film era
> ...



In landscape, when you put on an ND filter, you want to convey some sort of motion (moving clouds, silky streams, etc). The exposure is at least seconds long. There will always be some unintentional movements (tree leaves mostly). What I'd do is to take a picture of the moving stream, another one of the sky (often much brighter than everything else, and another one of the darker area (often the mid ground). Import them as layers in PS. Create layer mask to hide everything except what you want to show. So maybe on one layer you show the moving clouds, on another layer you show sharp, still tree leaves, and then another layer shows the moving stream of water. It sounds like a ton of work but it takes just minutes. More importantly, using GND doesn't prevent motion blur. I'm not speaking against GND. I'm just saying that personally it's preferable to use software to achieve similar or better result. 10-20 years ago people had no choice but use a ton of filters. Nowadays there are options. ND and CPL cannot be mimicked any other way.

Some people are purists or want to enter competitions that ban the use of software blending. I'm not bound by such things. I'm a pragmatist. My bag is already too big. Don't want it to get even bigger. Just my 2 cents.


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## Zeidora (Dec 31, 2015)

grad ND resin filters scratch easily, which is a problem. There are some grad glass filters, particularly for WA large format lenses, so-called "center filters". I have a couple for Schneider 72XL and 90XL, cost about $400-500 each.

Universal shade: you can combine shade with ND grads, which is impossible with a regular hood. The main advantage of the Universal shade is that you can bend it, so you can accommodate movements on a large-format camera. Not sure re vignetting. I've used it on my Zeiss 21 mm, but the 15 has a built in shade, no option for filters.

CPL: you can use 105 mm from any manufacturer. I use a B&W CPL. I would also consider Breakthrough (see separate thread on that). Note, that with CPL on a Lee holder, you cannot put the universal shade on.

Hard-soft edge: I mainly use hard, find soft too soft for showing any effect. Just depends on situation.

Color filters: Can all be done in post for digital photography. Color conversion filters (81 series) are useful for negative film, which has extreme dynamic range, but needs proper exposure on all three layers.

Compatibility of holder: I think it is, as long as the width and thicknesses are the same. Have no direct experience, though.

Re cost of adapter rings, they are outrageous. Get the minimum you require, and otherwise use step-up rings for smaller diameter lenses. For WA, there are some recessed rings, and those are worth it to get filter closer to lens.

Hope this helps.


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## brad-man (Dec 31, 2015)

I have bought several adapters from this guy on ebay and they are of very good quality for a significantly lower price:


http://stores.ebay.com/filterdudephoto?_trksid=p2047675.l2563


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 31, 2015)

Which system to choose for 16-35/4 FF? Is 4x4 enough or do I need to consider larger 6x6? When will 4x4 start wignetting on this lens? Lee is considered the best. 4x4 is fine, you should not see vignetting with the standard holder at 16mm (but if you stack holders, you will – see below for why you might stack).
Glass vs Resin vs ProGlass? What is a difference? Why are all graduated filters Resin only? Resin is more prone to scratches, glass is more brittle. ProGlass is sort of the best of both, but not many filters are available in that format. Resin is easier (=cheaper) to blend into a gradient, so most GNDs are resin. Schneider Optics (parent company of B+W) makes 4x6" (and other sized) glass GNDs in their MPTV line (motion picture television), but they're not cheap.
CPL - do I need to use Lee's CPL or can I buy CPL from other manufacturer? You can use any 4"/100mm square CPL in a holder slot. However, it gets more complicated when you want both a CPL and a GND, because you need to rotate them independently. That means either a second Lee holder and the Tandem Adapter, or the 105mm front adapter and a 105mm CPL. IIRC, the latter setup is a bit more expensive, but also us shallower so less impact on vignetting at the widest FLs. 
Hard or soft edge graduated ND? What is application for hard edge and soft edge? Hard edge for straight, defined horizons (ocean, fields in Kansas), soft for irregular horizons (mountains, forests, etc).
Are those colored filters of any use for digital photography or is it something which can be easily done in post? Eg. what about those Landscape, Sky, Sunrise and Sunset filter kits? I don't find solid color filters useful, digital makes them irrelevant. Generally, the only useful filters for a dSLR are CPL, ND, GND, and optionally clear/UV as a protection filter. A colored grad ND could be useful, I suppose, but I'd say not a priority. 
Is the holder compatible with third party filters? I didn't find reverse graduated ND filter in Lee's offering. Most 4" or 4x6" filters work. The only thing you need to pay attention to is thickness – Lee filters as well as most others are 2mm thick (that includes the reverse grads from Singh-Ray, HiTech, etc.). Schneider glass filters are 4mm thick (Lee sells an inexpensive kit to convert slot width). 
Lee Universal Lens Hood - any experience? Will it vignette on 16-35? Is Lee Wide Angle Lens Hood better? I somehow found this lens hood design very tempting (without any relation to filters) as I sometimes find myself taking pictures through window (different observations or skyscrapers, zoos etc.) and I have to reduce reflections of surrounding - something impossible with regular lens hood. No experience, but looks interesting.


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## Zeidora (Dec 31, 2015)

brad-man said:


> I have bought several adapters from this guy on ebay and they are of very good quality for a significantly lower price:
> 
> 
> http://stores.ebay.com/filterdudephoto?_trksid=p2047675.l2563



Thanks for that pointer!


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