# How do all these bag startups happen in a contracting camera market?



## ahsanford (Dec 13, 2016)

See subject. The dedicated camera market appears to be contracting from the rise of cell phone photography + social media. Yet startups / kickstarters / indiegogo campaigns for camera bags are happening left and right. *If people are less and less opting for dedicated cameras, why do they need so many new camera bags?*

There seems to be two classes of bags that are exploding right now: Bougie Disasters and Gadgety Bags of Holding.

BDs are bags that scream a lot of things I can't get personally behind: Looks over functionality, I enjoy putting an outfit together, 'If you think this bag is sharp, if you could only _see_ my gallery exhibition' 'I am carrying something expensive in here', privilege, pretentia, etc.

https://www.onabags.com/

https://www.langly.co/collections/camera-bags

http://www.ablearcher.co/store/

http://holdfastgear.com/collections

GBHs are hyper-engineered products like we might think of Patagonia hiking/climbing gear -- exclusive materials, ultralight while ultrastrong, built for the elements, sweat, extended time outdoors, etc. and often subscribe to a dorky German cement salesman design aesthetic -- simple, clean lines, futuristic, and tech-y.

https://www.wandrd.com/

https://www.peakdesign.com/compare?t=bags'

Whatever Apple-like bags GuraGear was making before they bought Tamrac.

(plus five more kickstarters since yesterday)

_*
Can someone help me understand this?*_ Is this just a migration from the major bag carriers' ambivalence to sexy (i.e. "Yes, we have four sizes of the Lens Duffel 6000 to choose from") to a more stylized/unique/on-target product? 

Is this more about camera bags going upmarket to chase the remaining diehard photographers who (we presume) have much nicer gear and therefore more money to spend on bags?)

Or is this more about small business owners seizing an opportunity as larger bag makers are dying off?

Help me understand this, team.

- A


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 13, 2016)

P&S sales are dropping toward nothing in a few more years.

ILC sales are still doing reasonably well, down a little, but not going away. Perhaps bags are aimed more at that market?


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## LDS (Dec 13, 2016)

Photographers are always in search of the "holy bag"... and it's easier to sell (and make) bags then expensive cameras.


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## AvTvM (Dec 13, 2016)

good question. have been wondering a ling time myself. got no real answer. except that i am convinced that 99% will never be a profitable business by any means. a lot of self-exploitation, a lot of unemployed "designers", a lot of ultra-cheap labor in chinese/southeast asian sweatshops i guess. 

same phenomenon also to be observed for many other camera/photography related accessory products - from tripods to light formers to filters to all kinds of other contraptions. 

or manual focus lenses! every single day there seem to be new products and new producers ... rokinon, laowa, meyer-goerlitz, handevision etc. etc.! As i am not interested in any of them, i am sure that millions of others are also not interested to buy.


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## geekpower (Dec 13, 2016)

i have a few, slightly random, thoughts on this subject.

1) social change means that products formerly sold primarily to one sex or the other are now being sold to both, and this includes fashionable bags of various kinds (i don't really have a problem with this. there is no good reason for men to not appreciate nice shoes and bags, or women not to appreciate nice cars, for example)

2) fashion always asserts itself somehow. in an age when wearing easily recognizable designer clothes is no longer cool, and "normcore" is a thing, accessories are becoming the way to signal to our social groups that we are hip to the trends

3) startups are easier to start than ever before, especially when they are just based on design and shipping the manufacturing somewhere else, without any investment in new technology or real innovation

4) a large number of these startups will probably fail

5) i hate kickstarter and its ilk. they are so full of stupid ideas that legit good ideas get buried and fail to get funded, while only the most simplistic, shallow, and trendy ideas get any attention.


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## mnclayshooter (Dec 13, 2016)

I have at least 3 if not 4 (depending on definition of terms) bags that were at one time, my camera bag, but are now my laptop/gym clothes/lunch box/briefcase bags that sometimes I tuck a camera into as well. 

Like any other piece of gear, things wear out over time... including fashion trendiness. Some people have to have the latest and greatest... whether its features, padding, durability, color, fabric design, discreetness, etc... From my standpoint, to be honest, some of the newest bags out have all of the "bells and whistles" (sometimes literally) that people want or think they need. Getting fools to part with their money is sometimes pretty easy... especially when it is an item of relatively low cost compared to the gear that goes into it and there's enough "cool factor" involved. 

Just my thoughts.


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## ahsanford (Dec 13, 2016)

Some nice insights from everyone:

1) Just because it is offered doesn't mean the business will succeed.

2) Our culture is changing (gender +1, great comment) and our opinions of not only our gear but what we house it in matters deeply to some folks.

3) Just because ILC sales are down doesn't mean people aren't using their gear. There is a baseline demand for bags like there is a demand for tires for cars in a low car sales years.

Keep this going. Good stuff!

- A


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## Hillsilly (Dec 14, 2016)

It's never been easier or cheaper to design a bag and then have a company in China (or even Taiwan) manufacture it - even in cost effective small numbers. So, if you've got an interest in design and photography, the Camera bag industry is an easy market to break into. Also, if anyone has an inkling that you could make a better bag, now is the time to put your thoughts into action.

I hadn't heard of the term "bougie" before. But I generally use an Ona Prince Street bag. I also use shiny mirrorless cameras, too. Before I start getting too self conscious, perhaps someone could explain why it is wrong to like pretty things?


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## ahsanford (Dec 14, 2016)

Hillsilly said:


> It's never been easier or cheaper to design a bag and then have a company in China (or even Taiwan) manufacture it - even in cost effective small numbers. So, if you've got an interest in design and photography, the Camera bag industry is an easy market to break into. Also, if anyone has an inkling that you could make a better bag, now is the time to put your thoughts into action.
> 
> I hadn't heard of the term "bougie" before. But I generally use an Ona Prince Street bag. I also use shiny mirrorless cameras, too. Before I start getting too self conscious, perhaps someone could explain why it is wrong to like pretty things?



Not wrong at all. Don't get self conscious. Be you. If you like those bags, buy them and use them! 

For every backhanded thing I said about Bougie Disasters, someone else might say the bag looks sharp, you accessorize well, you as a photographer come across as more accomplished/professional, etc.

In short, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and for me, BD bags aren't a great fit _*for me...*_


...I live in a major metropolitan area with a wide cross section of wealth/poverty in close proximity. Doing some walkaround work and shooting buildings, murals, etc. in the downtown area -- sometimes a scant few blocks from a very large outdoor homeless population -- tends to value a lower profile appearance.


...given my super suuuuuper casual vibe (I'm always in jeans, hoodies and NB sneakers), a nicer bag would stand out like a sore thumb. In short, a nice bag would make me have to put on nicer duds to go with it. Boo.


...in that I am trying to blend in and not portray that I am carrying gear. (For this reason, I hate major manufacturers' rectangular black foamy coffins on my back as well.)
So I tend to prefer the low profile DIY brandless canvas satchels that just as soon might have books or a raincoat in it. Think Domke, Army-Navy surplus, nondescript work satchels, etc.

- A


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## Halfrack (Jan 4, 2017)

The 'bag of the month club' is legit. The thing is, how many of these bag startups are self-sustaining companies, or someone making a design on the side & more or less calling it done? As long as everyone involved realizes they're not a sustainable business, it's fine. 

The bigger issue is these bag makers aren't going to make it into what few camera shops are left, mostly due to volume & unknown durability. The internet provides a way for a thousand folks to support a single item, then disburse without issue. If it fails in 6 months, oh well, buy a new or different one.


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## NancyP (Jan 5, 2017)

There is no perfect bag for some people. Different sizes might be needed. Different styles might be needed. My shoulder bags come in "tiny neoprene" (Sigma Merrill fixed-lens camera), "1 SLR camera, 2 small-medium lenses" canvas (this bag is 40 years old), 1 "1 SLR camera, 4 lens slots (one of which is typically used for a screw-top Nalgene 500ml water bottle), lots of pockets" ancient Domke canvas bag with mailman's shoulder cushion (this is my standard bag for short hikes).

I have tried several photo-specific backpacks, and none have been suitable for heavy gear over long distance / full-day hikes, due to poorly fitting suspensions. Photo backpack suspensions are "one size fits all", short woman to tall man. One size may fit "average" users tolerably, but these packs are useless for people who have non-average backs. I have a short "torso length" (measurement between shoulder strap insertions and hip belt insertions into pack frame). A foam insert in a standard day hiking bag works better - because I could buy a pack with a sized suspension that fits me and has a substantial amount of the load transferred onto the hip belt. Access to gear is not quite as easy in the pack, but I could carry twice the amount of weight and be twice as comfortable as with a poorly fitting pack.


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## ahsanford (Jan 5, 2017)

NancyP said:


> There is no perfect bag for some people. Different sizes might be needed. Different styles might be needed...



And thus you are describing how LowePro, Tamrac, ThinkTank, etc. make their money -- they carry a large number of sizes and product lines to address those needs. 

So that's a big risk with these kickstarters -- they are possibly a big step forward for something you really care about (look, speed, features, etc.), but they generally only come in one size.

- A


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## mackguyver (Jan 5, 2017)

LDS said:


> Photographers are always in search of the "holy bag"... and it's easier to sell (and make) bags then expensive cameras.


Guilty as charged. I have a slew of bags and Pelican cases. All a little different. Some for outdoors, some for travel, some for city, some simply to transport my whole studio at once in the car. Personally I have yet to be disappointed with anything Lowepro makes and they tend to be my first choice.

I think a big item ahsanford is talking about are the "hipsters" and Millenials. They want cool bags that look fancy/stylish/retro/(pick your positive or negative adjective). They also happen to be the biggest audience of the crowdfunding sites.

The biggest piece though is that for those of us with G.A.S., it's hard to imagine using a 5+ year old SLR, but there are literally millions of people (including my family members) using DSLRs that are 5-10+ years old. Just because the primary market sales are contracting doesn't mean that a ton of used bodies aren't selling and being used. The size of the (D)SLR owner's market is massive and far bigger than it's ever been. These people need/want bags and other accessories.


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## old-pr-pix (Jan 5, 2017)

The 'perfect' bag has yet to be designed, hence there is always opportunity to be the one who gets it just right.

For me, I'll admit I've got three active camera bodies (i.e. used on a consistent basis) and five active camera bags. Bag choice depends on what I'm shooting, how much gear I plan to use, and where I'm shooting (am I driving or hiking to get there). I have several other bags that are now essentially storage for less used gear such as film cameras & lenses, extra flash units, etc. They are all different and represent past hopes of snagging the perfect bag at the time. None were!

One of my favorite bag suppliers (Timbuk2) seems to have dropped out of the dedicated camera bag business. They now supply only inserts to fit their myriad of other style bags. I suppose that just gives me an excuse to try yet another manufacturer in the never ending search...


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## ahsanford (Jan 5, 2017)

old-pr-pix said:


> One of my favorite bag suppliers (Timbuk2) seems to have dropped out of the dedicated camera bag business. They now supply only inserts to fit their myriad of other style bags. I suppose that just gives me an excuse to try yet another manufacturer in the never ending search...



No disrespect to Timbuk2 (I own two bags of theirs myself), but I feel that 'bigger bag companies that _don't_ specialize in photography' like Timbuk2, Jansport, Ogio, Victorinox, Patagonia, etc. have undelivered for photographers. They tend to fit camera compatibility into their chosen bag ecosystem and design sensibilities rather than applying their technology to the photography need, e.g. a Timbuk2's Snoop camera bag is just one of their satchels with dividers put in it. Meh.

On paper, those non-photography-bag-heavyweights should be the silver bullet that balances meeting user needs / delivering innovation with larger scale bag-manufacturing know-how. The only company I've seen that tries to be a big bag company and innovate for photographers _might_ be Crumpler, but that's generous. In general, you make general purpose bags or you make camera bags. Few companies excel at both.

- A


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## [email protected] (Jan 5, 2017)

As a marketing guy, it's notable to me how much of those campaigns from the Kickstarter crowd are using "identity" campaigns, where they are forcefully establishing a personality, presumably in the hopes that it will be attractive and their market will wish to emulate their style. 

Are you a nerdy camera geek that people find creepy walking around doing street photography? No problem... grab a Peak Design Everyday bag, and everyone will know you're one of us. You're not a creeper; you're an artist. 

Personally, I think the perceived need for a style makeover for dslr users has increased now that they stand out much more versus the smaller cameras being sold, or the invisible cameras that are our smartphones.


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## dickgrafixstop (Jan 5, 2017)

Low entry requirements, on-line marketing and distribution and a camera buff's unending quest for the "right" bag are driving this trend. Anyone with a camera has probably thought about the "best" camera bag for the current configuration and found the one they own has short-comings. Like women's shoes, purses, shotguns, automobiles or anything else, the "next" one will be perfect!


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## LDS (Jan 5, 2017)

mackguyver said:


> Guilty as charged. I have a slew of bags and Pelican cases. All a little different. Some for outdoors, some for travel, some for city, some simply to transport my whole studio at once in the car. Personally I have yet to be disappointed with anything Lowepro makes and they tend to be my first choice.



Me too - I understood no bag fits all needs, so you need those which fit your different shooting styles and needs. Meanwhile, designs multiplied. Thirty years ago basically there were only shoulder bags and suitcase-like ones.

But fashion changed as well. Not many years ago was quite unfashionable for men going around with bags, but attaché cases, or, if you were a specific professional (i.e. a doctor, or a photographer...), with your specific job bag/case. For women, bags were essentially a fashion accessory, able to carry the few items needed.

Then the need to carry around a PC and other devices plus cables/accessories, and other changes in lifestyle (i.e. bicycles and motorbikes became appealing again), made bags a much more needed and used item. New materials and cheaper manufacturing helped to address the newer needs - meanwhile carrying around a camera no longer just identify you only as a tourist or pro photographer. Moreover tourism now lets more people reach more "difficult" places around the world, while traveling by plane has its specific restrictions.

Because digital photography is much "easier" and "cheaper" (after you get a camera, and if you don't become GAS affected), and you can "share" your images with a much larger audience easily, photography became more fashionable again, and to more people, across more social groups - some of which would have disdained the idea of carrying around a camera not long ago.

No surprise more entrepreneurs try in different ways to monetize it - including targeting new market segments with models designed to be appealing to them. If they are willingly to pay, why not? After all it doesn't looks a huge investment (people, tooling, materials), especially if you can gather funds beforehand.


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## unfocused (Jan 5, 2017)

I own more bags than I care to admit.

Ironically, despite a huge investment, the bag I now use most frequently is a discontinued LowePro shoulder bag that I bought on a whim for about $15 during a closeout. Best shoulder bag I have ever used. I'm kind of worried what I will do when it wears out.

Now, I'm searching for the perfect backpack bag for wildlife and birding. (Any suggestions?)

The truth is, though, I won't be truly satisfied with any bag until someone comes up with a "Tardis" bag that is bigger on the inside than the outside.


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## ahsanford (Jan 5, 2017)

unfocused said:


> I own more bags than I care to admit.
> 
> Ironically, despite a huge investment, the bag I now use most frequently is a discontinued LowePro shoulder bag that I bought on a whim for about $15 during a closeout. Best shoulder bag I have ever used. I'm kind of worried what I will do when it wears out.
> 
> ...



I hear you. A $20 Tenba padded insert inside of any old satchel/shoulder bag from work is the finest photographic investment I have ever made.

But I'm in the market for a magical perfect travel / vaca bag that is half small 5D3 loadout / half travel items and I think this is an instance where a purpose-built bag for nontrivial dollars might be warranted.

- A


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