# 72" umbrella... what to look for and what to avoid?



## jdramirez (Dec 3, 2014)

I know softies can give better catch lites, and umbrellas may not look as professional as studio lighting... but I'm cheap andi havea chance to get a 72 inch all white for $25 or a black back silver front for $35... (newer brand which can be a draw back) but once had newer stuff before and it doesn't prevent me from going back to that well. 

So... any caveats, 72 is just unwieldy, don't buy the all white, don't buy the black/silver, set the 600ex rt to manual focal length and set it at...

I prefer not to throw away good money on something that seems like a good idea but isn't...


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## Pookie (Dec 3, 2014)

Most umbrellas I've used I end up eventually replacing... they are kinda consumables at this point. All it takes is a spill and a rib to go, then they are pretty much useless. I do like the Paul Buff gear as it is cheap, decently made and can be mod'ed to just about any rig. 

This photo was done with the Paul Buff PLM's 64"... I like the light but def think the Octa is by far the best in durability and light. 72" is a difficult size though, even the 64" catches the breeze (or camera gear, models, assistants, etc) easily. I use speedlites but mostly Elinchrom Rangers and Quadra's for client shoots.


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## anthonyd (Dec 3, 2014)

Pookie said:


> Most umbrellas I've used I end up eventually replacing... they are kinda consumables at this point. All it takes is a spill and a rib to go, then they are pretty much useless...



What is "a rib to go"? Can you please explain why you find umbrellas to be consumables? I'm in the process of expanding my lights and modifiers (I just ordered the witstro ad360, moving up from speedlights) and I'm very interested in some advice on modifiers.


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## FTb-n (Dec 3, 2014)

I've collected bunches of umbrellas over the years, mostly Photoflex. My favorites are two 60" convertible which I most often use as shoot through umbrellas (without the black backing). If there is reason to believe that the 72" umbrella is reasonably built, $25 sounds like a very low risk experiment in large light modifiers. It may even serve well as a reflector. First choice is white for individual portraits and small groups. It may well be a special purpose modifier, but if you want more wrapping light, I'd give it a try.


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## Lawliet (Dec 3, 2014)

anthonyd said:


> What is "a rib to go"? Can you please explain why you find umbrellas to be consumables?



The spokes/ribs and the mechanics in general tend to be on the fragile side, much easier bent or broken then a softbox's rods but impossible to replace. A gust of wind is a common reason to get a new umbrella. (And the more resilient ones cost as much or even more then as your average softbox.)

As for which one to take - is the white one reflective or shoot-through? With a speedlight and its uneven illumination patterns a silvered umbrella can leave you with a uneven lighting. That makes a white one a safer bet, at least as a first shaper. (Filling in against sunlight is a different story, you'd need all the power you can get.)


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## Pookie (Dec 3, 2014)

anthonyd said:


> Pookie said:
> 
> 
> > Most umbrellas I've used I end up eventually replacing... they are kinda consumables at this point. All it takes is a spill and a rib to go, then they are pretty much useless...
> ...



A umbrella has ribs that provide the support for the material... if they break for whatever reason, the umbrella will become harder and harder to open/close and will eventually need replacement. I run a portrait business ( location, wedding, family and corporate) so my gear gets considerable use(abuse). Umbrellas are probably the most fragile of all my modifiers, they are typically the easiest to carry (due to weight) and use on-site. Wind can be a real problem on site though. I've stopped purchasing them in favor of Octas or softboxes. YMMV if you are not as hard on them... don't get me wrong though they can produce great light and are very effective, I've just moved on to more robust modifiers.


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## anthonyd (Dec 4, 2014)

Thanks everybody, and sorry for hijacking your thread jdramirez.


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## jdramirez (Dec 4, 2014)

anthonyd said:


> Thanks everybody, and sorry for hijacking your thread jdramirez.



It's fine... i got some good information out of the digression... I wouldn't mind getting a softbox... but they are so expensive for really good light... where I can spend the 30 bucks and get good light with the umbrella.


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## wickidwombat (Dec 4, 2014)

JD the 2 types of umbrellas you talk about light the subject completely differently from each other

the white shoot through is just that the light fire forward through the scrim and softens the light however it throws light everywhere so you have no control of the light. 

this is great for lighting large groups of people say 3 speed lights on stands with shoot throughs like this along a front evenly spacedf for a big group photo works really well. for a single or couple its not so good as spill light goes everywhere and can reflect of all sorts of things.

the silver with black back you fire the light backward into the dish and have the dish pointed at the subject and the edge of the light output is more defined and enables you to control the light better (you can get scrims and grids to soften and enable even finer tune for these in the form of umbrella softboxes. I have some phottix ones which are really well made the pack up nice and small, come with the scrim face and grid

i would recommend an umbrella softbox as a start like this
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Phottix-182cm-72-Para-Pro-White-Diffuser-cap-only-Umbrella-sold-separately-/371013329991?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_15&hash=item56621e2447

hope this helps


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## FTb-n (Dec 4, 2014)

JD, if you get one, please share you impressions of it. I'm very interested in learning what you find out and how you like it.


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## jdramirez (Dec 4, 2014)

FTb-n said:


> JD, if you get one, please share you impressions of it. I'm very interested in learning what you find out and how you like it.



I was doing some math and I can get 2 60" for a little more than 1 70/71"... so i think that is a better value... especially since the 60" has a removable black cover... so it gives me a touch more flexibility. 

But I'll give a full report and maybe some product photography, which is primarily what I use the studio setup for (my 1 year old refuses to sit still and the 11 year old refuses to smile...)


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## jdramirez (Dec 4, 2014)

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00409BAFQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0055P49HU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

I decided on these two. I got two different brands of the same type partly to see if there is a qualitative difference, but also because I HAD to buy one directly from Amazon in order to receive a $25 discount... so.. that works for me.


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## Pookie (Dec 5, 2014)

Impact does a pretty good job, I've used this umbrella in the past. It's deeper than most and will give you a bit more control over the spill. If you ever try another version, I'd def look at Paul Buff's PLM series. The major difference is in its shallow depth, it will give a more disperse light, and a bit more spill. 

Also, I liked Impact's soft silver as opposed to a very shiny silver on a lot of the "silver" umbrellas. For the most part I use white now as it gives a slightly softer light. 

You might also want to consider a brolly, a little more versatility for about the same price.


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## FTb-n (Dec 6, 2014)

jdramirez said:


> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00409BAFQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B0055P49HU/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o01_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> 
> I decided on these two. I got two different brands of the same type partly to see if there is a qualitative difference, but also because I HAD to buy one directly from Amazon in order to receive a $25 discount... so.. that works for me.


The 60" sounds big, but I find that they are very manageable and versatile for indoor shoots. I stick with 40-45" for outdoor unless I have an assistant and there's virtually no wind. I suspect that you're going to like the 60's. 

I'm curious which brand that you like better.


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## adventureous (Dec 25, 2014)

Fiberglass ribs are a plus. Won't break as easily. More forgiving of accidents.


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## jdramirez (Dec 25, 2014)

FTb-n said:


> jdramirez said:
> 
> 
> > http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00409BAFQ/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
> ...



I prefer the Impact... it just feels more substantial... though I think the light coming off both is comparable. Also, the impact comes with the little flap with velcro to keep it closed... and while I don't use that... I like it.


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## c.d.embrey (Dec 25, 2014)

I use the Paul C. Buff 86" Extreme Silver PLM™ (about 74" across the front). They are about $70.00, which make them medium priced http://paulcbuff.com/plm.php I use my PCB PLMs with Profoto heads and packs.

The Profoto Deep White Umbrella (Extra Large, 65") at $350.00 is the high end http://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1013344-REG/profoto_100980_deep_white_umbrella_extra.html

The *good thing* about umbrellas is that it is *hard to take a bad photo*. The *bad thing* about umbrellas is that it is *hard to take an outstanding shot* with them 

There are almost as many ways to use an umbrella as there are people using them  Next to the camera, 45° from the camera, 75-80° from the camera or maybe even 90°. Low height, straight on, high angle, even straight over-head. They can be aimed at the subject or feathered. Lots of choices  Have FUN learning 

BTW there isn't much difference between umbrellas, until you get to the bigger parabolics. The lower the price, the lower the construction quality, is the main difference.


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