# Canon EOS 60D Pictures?



## Canon Rumors Guy (Aug 11, 2010)

```
<div id="attachment_4686" class="wp-caption aligncenter" style="width: 585px"><a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/60d1.jpg"><img class="size-full wp-image-4686" title="60d1" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/60d1.jpg" alt="" width="575" height="651" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">EOS 60D, Note the Articulating Screen</p></div>
<div id="attachment_4687" class="wp-caption aligncenter" style="width: 585px"><a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/60d2.jpg"><img class="size-full wp-image-4687" title="60d2" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/60d2.jpg" alt="" width="575" height="504" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Looks like the pictures styles button is gone.</p></div>
<div id="attachment_4688" class="wp-caption aligncenter" style="width: 585px"><a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/60d3.jpg"><img class="size-full wp-image-4688" title="60d3" src="http://www.canonrumors.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/60d3.jpg" alt="" width="575" height="400" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Forum Idea to focus on the LCD</p></div>
<p>I think it’s safe to say these images are real.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


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## afrank99 (Aug 11, 2010)

Looks real to me.
Looks like a 7D body (movie switch, power-on switch) but with beginner's modes on the mode dial.
And an articulating screen obviously!


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## match14 (Aug 11, 2010)

Things missing that are on 50D are :-

C1 and C2 on the mode dial only C now (looks like a push button in the center of the mode dial is that for C settings?)

No picture style button

Looks like most of these are to be done via the Q menu

Also buttons appear to be scattered around a bit.


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## scalesusa (Aug 11, 2010)

This level of detail usually only appears a week or less from announcement, so, if they are real, an announcement will be here soon. This camera seems to be aimed at the D90 sucessor, so I expect the price to be similar.


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## afrank99 (Aug 11, 2010)

match14 said:


> No picture style button



I won't miss him!


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## afrank99 (Aug 11, 2010)

scalesusa said:


> This camera seems to be aimed at the D90 sucessor, so I expect the price to be similar.



And this means: yes, it's the 60D we are looking at.
What a pity I recently got myself a 7D 8)


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## pierlux (Aug 11, 2010)

If it is not a fake, the articulating screen appears to be there... so probably also the 18 MP sensor is there. Not that I'm particularly disappointed to find the 7D sensor inside what is probably going to be my 2nd body replacement, but, frankly, after having heard about a possible lower MP FF sensor in the very recently rumored "hybrid flagship", I was hoping Canon might do the same with the 60D. After all, 2x18MP APS-C cameras are already available from Canon, therefore diversifying its commercial offer could have proven a successful move.


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## afrank99 (Aug 11, 2010)

pierlux said:


> I was hoping Canon might do the same with the 60D. After all, 2x18MP APS-C cameras are already available from Canon, therefore diversifying its commercial offer could have proven a successful move.



I do think that having the highest pixel-count in the APS-C market actually is a very successful move (from an economic perspective).

By the way, lower pixel count does not mean lower noise.
Most people compare noise levels at 100% view which does not reflect reality - it's the whole image that counts.
After all, the amount of light that hits the sensor is only depending on total sensor surface area (excluding microlens gaps of course) and not on pixel size.


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## x-vision (Aug 11, 2010)

Finally   
This looks like the real thing. 
I guess the rumors about the swivel screen were true after all.


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## Peerke (Aug 11, 2010)

Lets hope it makes better pictures than these shown here ;D.


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## LukeS (Aug 11, 2010)

I really hope it has the 3:2, 1,040,000 pixel screen from T2i (550D).


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## Teilo (Aug 11, 2010)

If that isn't real, it is one of the most astounding fakes I have ever seen.


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## Stuart (Aug 11, 2010)

x-vision said:


> Finaly
> This looks like the real thing.
> I guess the rumors about the swivel screen were true after all.


Exciting if true, even is the same sensor, and perhaps a smallish screen.
I've Not used a flip out screen before and it might be odd for a while to flip it out 180 degrees, then rotate it 90 degrees up for down for high or low work where the viewfinder is not the best option. 
Good, looks like no GPS antenna plate. The conenction rubber cover looks big enough to have HDMI ?
I wonder if its got digic V or any other cool features such as WiFi. 
Hope full time movie AF is not mising.


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## afrank99 (Aug 11, 2010)

LukeS said:


> They took away a lot of buttons  I want settings to be easier to change not the other way around. Also I really hope it has the 3:2, 1,040,000 pixel screen on the T2i.



The only button that is missing is the (rather useless IMHO) picture style button as far as I can see.
No - wait - there's *no direct print button*!
Is this the one that you desperately are looking for?

BTW, the screen doesn't look like 3:2 to me.


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## pierlux (Aug 11, 2010)

afrank99 said:


> pierlux said:
> 
> 
> > I was hoping Canon might do the same with the 60D. After all, 2x18MP APS-C cameras are already available from Canon, therefore diversifying its commercial offer could have proven a successful move.
> ...



I do agree with you concerning the noise. in fact I didn't mention noise at all. But I have to disagree on your first statement. Not absolutely, in that if Canon had only 1 APS-C body, it'd better go with 18MP. But, given that there is a HUGE demand among photographers - especially pros - for a lower MP APS-C camera, maybe offering 2x18MP and one, say, 12-14MP bodies would better cover the customers' needs. Personally, I would love to have a lower MP APS-C body to complement my 5DII in replacement of my old 300D (yes, I still use, though not much, the original Rebel!).


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## LukeS (Aug 11, 2010)

It you look closely at the second shot you will see he is recording or taking a shot of a airplane and you can see some of the on screen displays. I had to crop it and reduce quality to fit under the max attachment size.


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## afrank99 (Aug 11, 2010)

pierlux said:


> ...for a lower MP APS-C camera, maybe offering 2x18MP and one, say, 12-14MP bodies would better cover the customers' needs. Personally, I would love to have a lower MP APS-C body to complement my 5DII in replacement of my old 300D (yes, I still use, though not much, the original Rebel!).



I don't see any advantage in having a lower pixel count.
Not noise wise, not dynamic range wise and obviously not detail wise.
If it's the file sizes, why not use mRAW?
Some guys even say the 7D produces 10MP mRAWs that look better than any 12 or 14MP DSLR.


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## pedro (Aug 11, 2010)

I strongly believe that this is the 60D taken with the TBA 1DsIV ;-)


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## pgabor (Aug 11, 2010)

Pentaprism looks kinda big, maybe vf is 100%? And btw, whats that blue button in the lower right "corner"?


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## that1guy (Aug 11, 2010)

Fun stuff...are there any guesses as to when we will have the "official" announcement?


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## SMP_Homer (Aug 11, 2010)

missing joystick?


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## clicstudio (Aug 11, 2010)

I like the roundness of it. Looks solid.
The button on the left dial is interesting but the placement of the off-on switch seems weird...


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## Richard (Aug 11, 2010)

Looks like a mini 7D. Not that I'm going to buy one, but I like it.


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## Sebastian (Aug 11, 2010)

Seems like Canon wants to stick with the main power switch under the mode dial on APS-C cameras like introduced with the 7D. To be honest, I think that's a totally stupid place. Every single digital Canon camera I owned so far could be conveniently switched on and off either with the thumb or the index finger of the right hand, while holding the camera in the same way while shooting. With the power switch on the "new position" you definitely need your left hand for switching on and off. To me, that's a step-down in ergonomics.


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## pedro (Aug 11, 2010)

@Richard: Wasn't that all they were aiming at?


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## gkreis (Aug 11, 2010)

afrank99 said:


> pierlux said:
> 
> 
> > I was hoping Canon might do the same with the 60D. After all, 2x18MP APS-C cameras are already available from Canon, therefore diversifying its commercial offer could have proven a successful move.
> ...



Wrong. This idea doesn't take into account the inherent noise in the technology.

http://www.clarkvision.com/imagedetail/does.pixel.size.matter/#Depth_of_Field_Myth

People like to point to photos that show the 7D doing just fine, BUT that is in well lit scenes. When the light begins to drop -- when some of us photographers like to shoot or are forced to shoot -- the 7D's small pixels are a problem. There is no substitute for larger pixels, period, if you are looking for better dynamic range and reduced noise. In the link above he explores the ideal pixel size (too few hurts images and too small hurts). The 7D and 50D crossed the line for the APS-C. I think a 13-14 megapixel APS-C is the sweet spot. Nikon, if the rumors are true, is being dragged into this pixel war that is not helping us folks.


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## unfocused (Aug 11, 2010)

SMP_Homer said:


> missing joystick?



I noticed that too. Also, I never thought about how much "real estate" you lose with the articulating screen, but it's really apparent in the pictures. Not sure how I feel about that.


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## Idahophoto (Aug 11, 2010)

I for one like the new look especially the change of the power switch. I hate where it is located on the 50D, drives me nuts. I find the Canon way of arranging buttons very frustrating since I moved over from Nikon and have thought hard about going back. This though looks like it might have merit and worth staying.

Dont get me wrong I love the 50D in many ways and tossing up buying a second one. It's a fantastic camera, but yeah I am glad to see the change in button placements. Took me like 5 min to learn all the functions on my old Nikon system after a year with Canon thee are still things I have to search for. 

The body seems smaller something I am not sure if I am fond of. I for one like a hefty body, they always feel more rugged to me, I am exited though to see the tilt screen this can come in real handy I think. I cant wait to see the full specs so I can decide on buying another 50D or a 60D.


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## lol (Aug 11, 2010)

Hmm... I would have preferred a Sony style vertical hinge than the side hinge myself, but this is looking interesting... the biggest question I have is: how much? Since it looks like it is a step down in target overall, then I hope the pricing goes that way too.


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 11, 2010)

SMP_Homer said:


> missing joystick?



Well, that's not so good if true. AF point selection would problematic (less so assuming it maintains the 9-point AF, but it still means pressing a button then spinning the quick dial rather than just a one-step operation). Also, what about image review with magnification? How would one move about the magnified image? 

But I don't think it's missing, just redesigned. Look closely at the 3rd image, between the Menu and Info buttons - that seems to be the joystick, just smaller and square, instead of bigger and round.


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## pgabor (Aug 11, 2010)

Ohoo! I think i get it! I guess that the jog is a joystick too! And it explains the unlock button too.


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## viggen61 (Aug 11, 2010)

THat's what I ws thinking, too. The outer rign is the "quick Control" wheel, the inner ring is the joystick, and the set button at the center. If you enlarge the first photo from the main site page, you can see ridges on the "inner" ring...


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## pierlux (Aug 11, 2010)

afrank99 said:


> pierlux said:
> 
> 
> > ...for a lower MP APS-C camera, maybe offering 2x18MP and one, say, 12-14MP bodies would better cover the customers' needs. Personally, I would love to have a lower MP APS-C body to complement my 5DII in replacement of my old 300D (yes, I still use, though not much, the original Rebel!).
> ...



Well, not noise wise, but as concerns dynamic range I should say an advantage exists for low pixel density sensors over those having tightly packed photosites. Let's put it this way: at high ISO, I like the 40D image quality better than that of the 50D. There's always a difference between theory and practice.


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## afrank99 (Aug 11, 2010)

chrome_dude said:


> Wrong. This idea doesn't take into account the inherent noise in the technology.



Right, not wrong.

I think both my physics degree and 10 years of experience in semiconductor production do help me having a clear understanding what goes on in a solid-state imaging sensor and signal processing in general.

Resizing a 18MP image to 10 MP using a decent algorithm is not very much different to using a 10MP sensor with larger pixels in terms of signal processing. After all it's always about integrating photon impact over time and position - it doesn't matter so much if it's done in the hard or the software.


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## laxative (Aug 11, 2010)

afrank99 said:


> No - wait - there's *no direct print button*!


Look closely under the back wheel. It's still there! Phew, thought i would be moving to Nikon for a while :


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## Mark D5 TEAM II (Aug 11, 2010)

Nice source CRGuy, first CR3 info in a long while 8). I'm glad that Canon chose the long-rumored side-hinged design for the 60D LCD rather than the bottom-hinged design on the D5000, which is unusable on a tripod or low on the ground. Would have been even better with the Sony-style folding LCD. I hope the VF view doesn't suffer due to the thicker screen. The 8-way mini-joystick inside the RCD is a good use of empty space, as is the 7D-style toggle switch for the EOS Movie/LV mode. If this is the supposed 60D and not the 2000D, then the latter would most prolly be just a rebadged 450D, like the previous rumors suggested.


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## Jan (Aug 11, 2010)

afrank99 said:


> Resizing a 18MP image to 10 MP using a decent algorithm is not very much different to using a 10MP sensor with larger pixels in terms of signal processing. After all it's always about integrating photon impact over time and position - it doesn't matter so much if it's done in the hard or the software.


This may be right for DSLRs with big enough pixels. For point'n'shoots I personally think it's wrong. As far as "dynamik range" is concerned, the photogate of the pixel is "full" when a certain amount of photons are collected. The bigger the pixel, the higher the capacity of the photogate, the higher the dynamik range.

Edit: By the way, I really like the pictures of the camera. Looks like a small camera with good ergonomics and good built quality to me.


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## x-vision (Aug 11, 2010)

afrank99 said:


> Resizing a 18MP image to 10 MP using a decent algorithm is not very much different to using a 10MP sensor with larger pixels in terms of signal processing.



In theory you are right but in practice you are wrong. 

What you are saying is true only if the two sensors collect the same amount of light. 

Consider this, though - the top surface of a sensor has an 'active' area (which collects light) and a wiring area (basically a dead area in terms of light collection). 

More pixels on a sensor requires more wires. 
If two sensors use the same wire size, more wires = larger dead area (and hence smaller active area). 

So, an 18mp sensor will actually collect *less* light than a 10mp sensor - if both sensors use the same size wires and everythng else is the same. 

FYI, Canon has not shrunk the wire size of their sensors since they started making sensors in 2003 (?).


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## neuroanatomist (Aug 11, 2010)

x-vision said:


> So, an 18mp sensor will actually collect *less* light than a 10mp sensor - if both sensors use the same size wires and everythng else is the same.
> 
> FYI, Canon has not shrunk the wire size of their sensors since they started making sensors in 2003 (?).



You seem to be forgetting about microlenses, which function to minimize the effects of inter-photosite spaces. Also, while Canon may not have 'shrunk the wire size' they recently (50D, 7D, 1DIV) changed over to using gapless microlenses, meaning essentially no light lost to the spaces between the photosites. So, an 18mp sensor with gapless microlenses will collect *the same* amount of light as a 10mp sensor with gapless microlenses.


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## ELK (Aug 11, 2010)

Good news:
- there is a button on mode dial
- while there is still direct print icon drawn at the right bottom, but there is no dedicated button for that - see attached slightly brightened crop. Seems it's function is combined with play/review button, which is great, imho.

Bad news:
- the body looks like non-metal as rumored


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## Mark D5 TEAM II (Aug 11, 2010)

Also, based on the pics, the LCD housing is still too thick, meaning it still uses the conventional CCFL backlighting, not LEDs or those thin backlight-less AMOLEDs used by Samsung. The VF eyepiece should be extended more towards the back to compensate, just like 1-series VFs compared to lesser cams.


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## ELK (Aug 11, 2010)

Yes, amoled display will come 1 year later with 70D by killing 60D (remember 40D -> 50D?)


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## Cornell (Aug 11, 2010)

Am I missing something? Is there something that actually identifies the camera shown as being for a 60D?


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## Aputure (Aug 11, 2010)

afrank99 said:


> The only button that is missing is the (rather useless IMHO) picture style button as far as I can see.
> No - wait - there's *no direct print button*!
> Is this the one that you desperately are looking for?



Bottom right looks like a direct print button. But I can't find a delete button anywhere. Also, I wonder what's going on with the top left button? Looks like the joystick has been replaced by a 4 way controller around the set button also?


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## drumbo (Aug 11, 2010)

What is the size of the LCD screen? 3"? or less because of the "articulation"?


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## Aputure (Aug 11, 2010)

Sebastian said:


> Seems like Canon wants to stick with the main power switch under the mode dial on APS-C cameras like introduced with the 7D. To be honest, I think that's a totally stupid place. Every single digital Canon camera I owned so far could be conveniently switched on and off either with the thumb or the index finger of the right hand, while holding the camera in the same way while shooting. With the power switch on the "new position" you definitely need your left hand for switching on and off. To me, that's a step-down in ergonomics.



Fully agreed.


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## MadButcher (Aug 11, 2010)

As I can see: the wheel on the back is divided into two, the inner circle around the set-button is the 'joystick'.


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## Justin (Aug 11, 2010)

Does it look like there is a button that can be depressed in the middle of the mode dial?


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## jfretless (Aug 11, 2010)

Doesn't the the guy's thumbnail look a little too perfect? A model's manicured hands perhaps?

I say the images were leaked on purpose.

Just saying...


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## pgabor (Aug 11, 2010)

Aputure said:


> afrank99 said:
> 
> 
> > The only button that is missing is the (rather useless IMHO) picture style button as far as I can see.
> ...



The upper left button (under on-off switch) is the delete button, and around the set button theres a 8 way controller. (on the first pic you can see the bumps)


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## ELK (Aug 11, 2010)

Aputure said:


> afrank99 said:
> 
> 
> > The only button that is missing is the (rather useless IMHO) picture style button as far as I can see.
> ...



Delete button is on the left above the screen, it's partially visible on first picture.


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## MadButcher (Aug 11, 2010)

pgabor said:


> and around the set button theres a 8 way controller. (on the first pic you can see the bumps)



I saw it allready, it's quit clear.


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## Mark D5 TEAM II (Aug 11, 2010)

Also, based on the airplane pic on the LCD monitor, it looks like it would have the same 3:2 720x480 1.04Mpixel resolution as that on the 550D, since the info overlay is directly on the image itself, not in a black bar above and below the image like in the usual 4:3 640x480 LCDs used for the rest of the lineup.



Add'l info from the DPR forum:



> The lack of buttons maybe because it has a touch screen because Canon applied for a patent that covers a touch screen facility on DSLR cameras (reported in the January - March 2010 EOS Magazine). The touch screen apparently is not just for navigation, but will also allow the user to adjust settings - a vertical swipe to change the aperture values and horizontal swipe to adjust shutter speed. Other functions, including metering mode, drive, ISO value, autofocus, white balance and exposure compensation will also be adjustable via gesture controls.
> 
> Also reported in the April - June 2010 EOS Magazine Canon applied for a patent for a revolutionary viewfinder system which displays both an optical and an electronic viewfinder. It means that photographers can look through the optical viewfinder and see two screens; one which displays through the lens and another which is a small electronic viewfinder that is used for image review. It would mean that photographers would no longer have to take the camera away from their eye to view the image on the LCD monitor. This would be useful for sports and news photographers who need to stay ready for the next shot.


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## gkreis (Aug 11, 2010)

afrank99 said:


> chrome_dude said:
> 
> 
> > Wrong. This idea doesn't take into account the inherent noise in the technology.
> ...



Well you have me beat in credentials. But I can't understand how this can be true. Would a 40mp APS-C then not be any worse for noise and even better if down sampled? I think we would both agree not. So where is the sweet spot?

You can find equally qualified individuals that say the opposite. So how are those of us on the fringe to figure this out? I see some sites where the sample photos show the 7D is equal to earlier APS-C models, if not better. Then I see others that show in their samples just the opposite.

The only reason I care is that I can't afford to be buying $1200 or $1600 cameras to test them.


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## gkreis (Aug 11, 2010)

Aputure said:


> Sebastian said:
> 
> 
> > Seems like Canon wants to stick with the main power switch under the mode dial on APS-C cameras like introduced with the 7D. To be honest, I think that's a totally stupid place. Every single digital Canon camera I owned so far could be conveniently switched on and off either with the thumb or the index finger of the right hand, while holding the camera in the same way while shooting. With the power switch on the "new position" you definitely need your left hand for switching on and off. To me, that's a step-down in ergonomics.
> ...



I leave my power switch turned on except when I have it in the bag. I've read that when it powers down to standby mode it is a very light load. Seems to me that the power switch is really most effective at make the other buttons mute and not really saving lots of power.


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## gkreis (Aug 11, 2010)

jfretless said:


> Doesn't the the guy's thumbnail look a little too perfect? A model's manicured hands perhaps?
> 
> I say the images were leaked on purpose.
> 
> Just saying...



The EXIF says the shots were taken with a 7D at 400MM. That is effectively 640mm. Do we think these are 1:1 crops? I am wondering how far away the spy was when he snapped the shots?

FWIW, those don't look professionally manicured to me...


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## lol (Aug 11, 2010)

chrome_dude said:


> Would a 40mp APS-C then not be any worse for noise and even better if down sampled? I think we would both agree not. So where is the sweet spot?


I'd love to see a 40MP APS-C camera, but like everything else in the world, you can't judge a camera by one specification alone. It will take a significant amount of processing power to chew through those, not to mention the storage requirements. It wouldn't be fun if it was too slow. As processing cost (both $ and in energy terms) continues to go down, and storage capacity goes up, that will become a non-issue in future.

For example, my personal belief is the quality "sweet spot" would be around 150MP for APS-C. Before you say that can't be made, that pixel density is already in use right now in compacts. What about diffraction? That density would start to limit around f/2.8, so a stopped down quality f/1.4 lens might be able to reach its potential. But would all those extra pixels be wasted at smaller apertures? Having many noisy pixels is a lot easier to process than too few cleaner ones. Look up oversampling. It would also help get around the bayer softness when working at lower output resolutions. If this is so great why haven't they done it yet? As said, the processing and storage cost for something like this wouldn't be fun with current technology. And also marketing... Less is "good enough" for now. The key thought is that individual pixels don't need to be perfect. The bigger picture is what matters.


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## gkreis (Aug 11, 2010)

lol said:


> chrome_dude said:
> 
> 
> > Would a 40mp APS-C then not be any worse for noise and even better if down sampled? I think we would both agree not. So where is the sweet spot?
> ...



The dynamic range on compacts is awful... I dumped my G9 for that reason alone. So, you may wish it, but I sure don't.....


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## LukeS (Aug 11, 2010)

A good enhanced crop of the new joystick from the dpreview thread
http://forums.dpreview.com/forums/readflat.asp?forum=1019&thread=36014593&page=2


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## Deeksie (Aug 12, 2010)

Hey guys, been reading about the 60D, and just wanted to make a post about higher pixel density sensors, so, this is my 1st post. :-D

I thought about the whole down sampling thing, and applied my further maths knowledge too it. I have come to the conclusion that a 40mp APS-C sensor image down-sampled too 10mp would create twice as much noise as a 10mp APS-C sensor when both are based on the same technology.

The amount of noise is basically the standard deviation of the pixel value from the actual value (if the pixel had no noise). This allows me to apply my statistics knowledge to the problem. I'm going to use some abbreviations for this maths as otherwise I'll be writing loads out.

SD=standard deviation
M=mean
SqRt= Square root

Now, imagine one pixel. Lets give it a SD of 1 (it's level of noise). Now imagine we quadruple the pixel density, there are now four pixels, because we have quartered the area of each one, it's noise level or SD increases by 4 times. So each of the four pixels have a SD of 4.

Now, say I want to use those four smaller pixels to create one big pixel using an algorithm to try and get one lower noise pixel. Basically I just find the M of the 4 pixels.

Here comes the issue, the SD of a sample mean (basically, the SD of the one pixel created from the 4 smaller ones) equals: SD/SqRt(number of pixels). If we apply this we can find the standard deviation of the one virtual pixel created from the 4 smaller ones:

4/SqRt(4) = 2

So as we can see the one physical pixel should, theoretically, have half as much noise as the one "virtual" pixel created from the four smaller pixels. I therefore propose that there is a very very sound reason for creating a newer sensor with a lower pixel count. This also implies that Canon has been doing great work at getting higher pixel density sensors that create lower or similar noise in print than older cameras with lower pixel counts.

I am fairly sure that this is correct, however, if I'm wrong, I would be happy to be corrected. 

Deeksie


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## Rocky (Aug 12, 2010)

afrank99 said:


> pierlux said:
> 
> 
> > I was hoping Canon might do the same with the 60D. After all, 2x18MP APS-C cameras are already available from Canon, therefore diversifying its commercial offer could have proven a successful move.
> ...


The amount of light that hits each pixel will only depends on the F stop and the shutter speed.It does not depends on the total sensor size. (The same analogy as for given the same scenery, both the 6X6 and 35mm camera will have the same setting, while then 6X6 are having 4 times the area of a 35mm frame). As for inherit noise per pixel, the smaller the pixel, the more the noise, due to less amount of photon that hits the pixel, while the electronic noise is the same. So it sill have a lower sinal to noise ratio. That means more noise per pixel. The auther also mentions in a later posting that down size a 18MP picture to 10 MP. The resulting picture is as good as a picture taken with a 10 Mp pixel camera. I have a serious doubt about that. Anytime you transfrorm a picture, there are alway a small amount of uncertainty during the transformation, and result will be deteriated. Even the transformed picture is as good as tyhe 10 Mp picture without trnsformation, why bother with the transformation, why not just use a 10 Mp camera to start with.


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## Michal (Aug 12, 2010)

Finally, something that is real and believable. Iâ€™d rather see a post like this once every 3 months than pure fantasies and fanboy speculations every week.


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## Deeksie (Aug 12, 2010)

"The Canon S90, with a small sensor, gets better per pixel sensor performance than the full-frame Nikon D3X."

Ah, you quoted it wrong. They said the S10 had better performance per unit of sensor AREA than the D3X, not per pixel. That is a huge difference!

Maybe the better technology in the smaller sensors is much harder to replicate on a larger chip?!

I used "bang out mate" before...re-reading I realise how offensive that could sound, sorry if you read it and felt offended!


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## Gcon (Aug 12, 2010)

Is that a Direct Print button I see down below the thumb? *awaits direct print jokes*


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## Rocky (Aug 12, 2010)

afrank99 said:


> chrome_dude said:
> 
> 
> > Wrong. This idea doesn't take into account the inherent noise in the technology.
> ...


Still Wrong.
With a physic degree, you should have a good understand of clasiccal optics and wave optics. Then you should know that the 18MP is diffraction limited at F6.7. Any opening smaller than that will cause unsharpness of the picture. Your previous comment says the amount of light that hit the pixel is only depends on the overall size of the sensor not the size of pixel is also wrong. Please go back to Optics 101. There is a big difference of "integrating photon overtime and position" between hardwared and software. If you integrating by soft ware, you are integrating electronics noise from the circuitry of eachy pixel. If you have a larger pixel, you will have more poton and the elcectrical noise from only ONE pixel. Therefore larger pixel will have less noise. Semiconductor production does not make you a noise expert. 
You do not need to show your credential to convince people that you are right, if you have a valid reason.


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## unfocused (Aug 12, 2010)

When Nikon releases their 16MP D95 and Canon releases the 18MP 60D, would it be possible to stop all the insanity over megapixels? 

Getting real tired of the debate. 

Alternatively, maybe we could create a special Megapixel War thread and let the two sides fight to the death. 

I shot film for most of my life. If you used Tri-X you got some grain. If you pushed it to 1600 you got more grain. If it bothered you, you went to a larger format. It seems like people want to push their digital cameras to 6400 and think they shouldn't get noise. I'm just so incredibly amazed at the quality of the shots that come out of my 7D that I can't figure out what the issues are.


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## Fadhillah (Aug 12, 2010)

roadracer said:


> THEY ARE FAKE PHOTOS!
> 
> The photos are very, very, obvious photoshops, and I cant believe this thread has gone on this long with no one noticing the obvious signs (or maybe I missed the post were someone noticed?)
> 
> ...



of course the spacing is different because it is taken from a different angle.


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## roadracer (Aug 12, 2010)

Fadhillah said:


> of course the spacing is different because it is taken from a different angle.



ah, never mind, I was thinking it was a obvious photoshop, but I dont feel like debating everyone about it  got better things to do


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## Grummbeerbauer (Aug 12, 2010)

Sebastian said:


> Seems like Canon wants to stick with the main power switch under the mode dial on APS-C cameras like introduced with the 7D. To be honest, I think that's a totally stupid place. Every single digital Canon camera I owned so far could be conveniently switched on and off either with the thumb or the index finger of the right hand, while holding the camera in the same way while shooting. With the power switch on the "new position" you definitely need your left hand for switching on and off. To me, that's a step-down in ergonomics.



I have to agree on this one. I had (well, still have...) a 450D before I got the 7D, and the 7D forces you to use two hands much more often. When I use the 450D with a handstrap, I can do almost everything (aside from entering the menu), including mode dial changes, with one hand only. The 7D requires two hands for on/off as you mentioned and for changing the shooting mode.

I overall still like the 7D better, though.


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## Rocky (Aug 12, 2010)

unfocused said:


> When Nikon releases their 16MP D95 and Canon releases the 18MP 60D, would it be possible to stop all the insanity over megapixels?
> 
> Getting real tired of the debate.
> 
> ...


My issues on the 18MP APS-C camera are: 1. The sensor has out resolved the bset of the prime lens. 2.Diffraction limited at f6.7. 3.Noise at higher ISO (400 nad UP)is even worst than 40D. 4.Built in noise reduction further reduced the sharpness og the picture. 5. Dynamic range is 1 stop less than the 40D. 
If you are happy with your 7D. That is great. I have been waiting for a replacement for my 20D for a long time. When the 50D come out, It is disappointing. Then comes the 7D. It is better than the 50D but It is 18MP. So I gave up and brought a used 40D with only 7K shutter activation.


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## afrank99 (Aug 12, 2010)

chrome_dude said:


> afrank99 said:
> 
> 
> > chrome_dude said:
> ...



Why not?
Doubling the pixel size (while keeping sensor area equal) means that every pixel captures the signal from two former smaller pixels (averaging the two). Just like pixel binning does. And just like downsampling does.

There may be effects in reality that limit this procedure, but in the end, there won't be much difference between a low pixel count sensor and a downsampled image. 

Imagine taking the same photograph 100 times @ ISO 100. Then use the images to average each pixel.
What do you get? A super-clean image like it was taken with ISO 5 or something (don't know what the exact number would be).
Why?
Because the signal always stays the same, but the noise is random, and different for each image, so it will average to zero. A simple way to increase SNR.

Downsampling an image is the same using the area as averaging variable instead of time.


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## wuschba (Aug 12, 2010)

A finally...

Did someone say "touchscreen"? That would be awesome. Not that it helps much, but it's just great to show off ;-)


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## afrank99 (Aug 12, 2010)

Rocky said:


> With a physic degree, you should have a good understand of clasiccal optics and wave optics. Then you should know that the 18MP is diffraction limited at F6.7. Any opening smaller than that will cause unsharpness of the picture.



Yes, of course, but so what?
Of course at some point more sensor resolution is not usable for details anymore, but this is not what we are talking about right now.
The image the optics throw at the sensor is only depending on the optics, and not the sensor.



Rocky said:


> Your previous comment says the amount of light that hit the pixel is only depends on the overall size of the sensor not the size of pixel is also wrong. Please go back to Optics 101. There is a big difference of "integrating photon overtime and position" between hardwared and software. If you integrating by soft ware, you are integrating electronics noise from the circuitry of eachy pixel. If you have a larger pixel, you will have more poton and the elcectrical noise from only ONE pixel. Therefore larger pixel will have less noise.



You need to understand the difference between SIGNAL and NOISE.
Integrating noise means eliminating it.
Noise is random. Integrating lots of lots of noise makes it disappear.

Let me give you an example:
Let's say we have 1 Million 50% gray pixels. Noise introduces some pixels that are brighter, and some that are darker than 50% gray. The too-bright pixels will be roughly the same number than the too-dark pixels.
Downsampling the image means building an average - and the average of this noise is ZERO (well, almost).



Rocky said:


> Semiconductor production does not make you a noise expert.
> You do not need to show your credential to convince people that you are right, if you have a valid reason.



There are so many people around not knowing what they are talking about, I just tried to separate from them.
Sorry for this.


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## Aputure (Aug 12, 2010)

It's always exciting to see pictures! If true, I think the new body will be a welcome addition. For one, it stands out from the rest of the range - its almost a hybrid of the 7D and 550D, and hopefully the best of both worlds. Except it looks like the viewfinder is still pretty small. Bummer. LCD should be AWESOME though. I really miss that from my G6. 

I made a blog post a while back about my wish list for the 60D (and my predictions): http://www.aputure.com/blog/2010/06/09/canon-60d-our-wish-list/

I can't believe I doubted the swivel screen hype...

Oh well, still not confirmed yet, can't wait for the official press release. These things always keep me up late at night :-\


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## MCK (Aug 12, 2010)

How can it be that they suddenly make plastic sh... on an eos xx ????? :'(


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## Jan (Aug 12, 2010)

MCK said:


> How can it be that they suddenly make plastic sh... on an eos xx ????? :'(


I can't believe this either.
Don't get me wrong, I believe it, but I don't appreciate it.


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## rrcphoto (Aug 12, 2010)

Rocky said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > When Nikon releases their 16MP D95 and Canon releases the 18MP 60D, would it be possible to stop all the insanity over megapixels?
> ...



sounds like the result of you clicking a shutter button is to view at 100% then do nothing with the image.

1. a higher resolution will continue to extract more detail out of any lens. the lens determines the max magnification between sensor size and final image size. This tired reason has been way proven even on photozone when they moved some of their tests from 8Mp sensors to 15Mp cropped sensors if you want empirical data.
2. only if the result of your photo taking is pixel peeping - diffraction and the appearance of it, depends on your sensor to final image magnification - pixel level diffraction isn't a big deal that alot make it out to be.
3. image noise is less on the 7D .. there is a difference.
4. only if you shoot JPG.
5. not at equiv print sizes. DxO mark has them as equal on per pixel and 7D obviously better with matched image sizes.

two ways of looking at this .. 

more resolution does not mean that you can increase the magnification of image size to final output size. more resolution means you have smaller graduations and less digital artifacts. you also have more pixels that you can afford to lose to NR at higher ISO's and still achieve a baseline Mp's that a lower Mp sensor could not resolve at even at base ISO.

the more Mp's arguments you raised are all too common, and usually revolve around people that think the be all and end all is to stare at a monitor with the image nailed at 100% magnification.


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## envoys (Aug 12, 2010)

Is it just me or does the circle wheel in the pics looks different in pic 1 then in the others? First pics looks like a 7D wheel.


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## Jan (Aug 12, 2010)

envoys said:


> Is it just me or does the circle wheel in the pics looks different in pic 1 then in the others? First pics looks like a 7D wheel.


I think the quality is too bad to say that. But on none of the pictures the scroll wheel looks like the of of the 7D (the 7D's has got a silver circle).


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## that1guy (Aug 12, 2010)

I'm kinda bummed about the plastic body news. In my mind, the 7D is now the real replacement for the XXD line and this 60D is really a new level of camera stealing the name from the XXD line. I'll reserve final judgement until I see the product, but so far, I don't like it.


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## unruled (Aug 12, 2010)

MCK said:


> How can it be that they suddenly make plastic sh... on an eos xx ????? :'(



Yeah, if the picture is accurate, then this really sucks to be honest. I'm one of the many that went from a 350d to a 40d, and one of the reasons was bigger/better build. What this '60d' appears to be is a regression to a 550d in a slightly bigger form factor. Well, screw that.

I then agree with @that1guy, in that the 7d is then the unofficial real successor to the xxD series.

Don't know why/how canon seemingly screwed this up.


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## hoktar (Aug 12, 2010)

Interesting, that nearly everyone is against what they did with the 60D.
I wonder if Canon cared about it, if they knew.


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## ELK (Aug 12, 2010)

hoktar said:


> Interesting, that nearly everyone is against what they did with the 60D.
> I wonder if Canon cared about it, if they knew.


I'm not against. If plastic body helps keep price lower maintaining good build quality, then it's fine! Never heard any complaints about D70, D80, D90 plastic bodies. I actually owned D80 and then moved to 40D. The first feeling, when I looked and touched 40D was "Yes, it's huge.. but it's somehow... not serious. Is it really metal? Canon doesn't have designers at all?... etc". When I compared D80 and 40D side by side, I came to the conclusion that Nikon's designers put every effort to make me fall in love with it. And what did Canon's designers have in mind when making 40D? Curiously, the words of Boris the Blade from Snatch perfectly describe my feelings toward 40D design: "Heavy is good. Heavy is reliable. If it doesn't work, you can always hit him with it."  To say nothing about Rebels!!! Hence, if Canon this time makes 60D plastic a bit appealing (D90ish?), then most of us, the snobs, will feel quite happy. So you may ask, why did I move from Nikon to Canon? My D80 had a lot of hot pixels. The Internet was also full of stories about D80 hot pixels. It made me mad, I could see them in almost all high ISO or long exposure pictures. If I knew that D90 will have CMOS sensor and will be such a good upgrade I wouldn't switch to Canon. But I didn't know, and I was very angry that a camera with BS instead of sensor costed me 800$.
But when I switched to Canon, I understood that I still loved Nikon. Now when I look at my D80 pictures, I don't notice these hot pixels. Maybe I've just grown up and finally am becoming a photographer from a novice measurebator. In the end, we just forget sometimes that the label on the camera and body material have absolutely no connection to the laws of optics. So much sentiments for today


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## Shompis (Aug 12, 2010)

Indeed, the plastic Nikon uses is of very high quality and feels like very hight quality. However, the Canon xxx series feell like it is made of cheap plastic, not to mention how cheap on/off switch is on Canon compared to Nikon. That is worrying me that the 60D will feel cheap as the XXX series and not high quality plastic like the Nikon ones.


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## gkreis (Aug 13, 2010)

Shompis said:


> Indeed, the plastic Nikon uses is of very high quality and feels like very hight quality. However, the Canon xxx series feell like it is made of cheap plastic, not to mention how cheap on/off switch is on Canon compared to Nikon. That is worrying me that the 60D will feel cheap as the XXX series and not high quality plastic like the Nikon ones.



I think we are all fretting about something we haven't seen yet. Let's just wait... (it is hard, I know)... and see what the reviews say.

My question is when will these be in stores so we can handle one?


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## that1guy (Aug 13, 2010)

I've thought about it more today, and I think I am becoming more ok w/ the plastic IF it is a really high quality one. One more thing I'm curious about is what kind of shutter it will have. I wonder if it will still be the more durable XXD shutter or if it will get an XXXD shutter. I know, I know, we have to wait  If they put the good shutter in and use a good durable plastic, I think I could be won over.


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## marulk (Aug 13, 2010)

afrank99 said:


> There are so many people around not knowing what they are talking about, I just tried to separate from them.
> Sorry for this.



I want to upgrade from my (8MP) 350d rebel and I really like its pixel sharpness at 100%. I really have no need for 18MP. But I do want better ISO, faster AF, better ergonomics and larger viewfinder.
Could I not just get a 60d and shoot with it at 8MP and still see an IQ improvement over the rebel?

(I am guessing shooting in 8MP means the camera shoots at 18MP, then downsamples the image in-camera to 8, which theoretically should reduce some noise too ?)


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## MCK (Aug 13, 2010)

But what about a heavy ef 70-200mm 1 2.8l is ii usm on a light plastic body ?


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## MCK (Aug 13, 2010)

dilbert said:


> MCK said:
> 
> 
> > But what about a heavy ef 70-200mm 1 2.8l is ii usm on a light plastic body ?
> ...



No surely not !! :

I have just vusulized that a heavy lens on a light body would maybe tendency tilt over ... or would not lay as good in the hand as a heavier metal body...


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## MCK (Aug 13, 2010)

dilbert said:


> MCK said:
> 
> 
> > dilbert said:
> ...



So if there are ony advantages in a plastic body why not to use one on all models ?


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## marind (Aug 13, 2010)

dilbert said:


> that1guy said:
> 
> 
> > I'm kinda bummed about the plastic body news. In my mind, the 7D is now the real replacement for the XXD line and this 60D is really a new level of camera stealing the name from the XXD line. I'll reserve final judgement until I see the product, but so far, I don't like it.
> ...



finally someone with brains on the forum .. to all of you, who are blablaing about the plastic bodyframes, or how ugly is this new camera ... argggh!! do a good thing to world of photography and switch to PRACTICA ..


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## Jan (Aug 13, 2010)

MCK said:


> So if there are ony advantages in a plastic body why not to use one on all models ?


Because people go crazy about these Mg bodys and so they sell well. 

Well, seriously: a Mg body is probably sturdier than a plastic one. But the question is, if the normal user needs this. Maybe a professional photographer, who has two or three cameras around the neck and needs to switch between the really fast without being able to be carefull that they don't hit each other...


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## that1guy (Aug 13, 2010)

dilbert said:


> that1guy said:
> 
> 
> > I'm kinda bummed about the plastic body news. In my mind, the 7D is now the real replacement for the XXD line and this 60D is really a new level of camera stealing the name from the XXD line. I'll reserve final judgement until I see the product, but so far, I don't like it.
> ...



I actually did in another thread but I can't expect everyone to read each thread, so I'll explain in more detail...I can be clumsy and my camera gets beat and dinged all the time. I was figuring that it stood a better chance of surviving w/ a metal body. And if my camera survives, it will take a better photo than a broken one  . If you would have read down the page a little you would have also found that I said I was becoming more ok w/ it if they used a high quality plastic and if they still put an XXD shutter in it (as I do shoot a TON of frames). 

Here is a good example of what I mean...back when the 1DS came out my old boss took it out to get some photos. He was walking over a bunch of boulders, slipped and put his hands down quick to catch himself. Problem was that the 1DS was still in his hand  The base of the camera hit a rock so hard the 28-70 2.8 broke right off the body, leaving the lens mount in the camera, and it ejected the battery (not sure if you have seen 1DS batteries, but they actually lock into the body). He got back to the studio, we removed the mount, put a new lens and battery in and it worked perfect. Fast forward to this year and a buddy of mine drops his Rebel XSi w/ a kit lens on it. Doesn't hit the ground hard enough to break the lens or cause any visible damage. His camera now doesn't work. Now I'm not saying that the 60D is built like the 1DS, so everyone quit writing the flame responses, but I figure that it has to fall somewhere in between as far as durability. 

Do I need the durability? Not if I don't drop my camera  . But I make money w/ my camera and a lot of times I'm chasing kids or at a wedding and I'm focusing more on my subject than on my camera. I know there is a really good chance of me doing something stupid  If you misunderstood and thought that I was saying my pictures would look worse now that it was a plastic body, I'm sorry. All I was saying was that I can tend to be clumsy and I figure a more solid body is a better insurance policy for me.

Anyway, that's my reason FWIW.


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## unruled (Aug 13, 2010)

dilbert said:


> that1guy said:
> 
> 
> > I'm kinda bummed about the plastic body news. In my mind, the 7D is now the real replacement for the XXD line and this 60D is really a new level of camera stealing the name from the XXD line. I'll reserve final judgement until I see the product, but so far, I don't like it.
> ...



actually, I went from a 350d to a 40d and my keeper rate at slow shutterspeeds is a LOT higher with the 40d, because it just sits more stable in my hands, and the fact that its a better balanced weight distribution.

That said, part of the reason I hate plastic on camera's is -- superficial, but I like to feel quality in my hands, not as if Im holding a toy (a very expensive toy). I travel a lot and (literally) throw my 40d into a backpack all the time, never had so much as a scratch. Its good to be able to feel that confident.


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## silvershot77 (Aug 13, 2010)

Huge demand for lower count 1.6
bodies ? where ? not anywhere to be seen.


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## that1guy (Aug 14, 2010)

Dilbert - touche. Look, you obviously won't be proven wrong w/ your logic so that is fine. I was just giving examples from my own experience. Aparently they weren't valid enough, so that is fine. From your example, I am actually now feeling a lot better about the plastic, so thanks for sharing your experience. You are right, I don't know how far the plastic rebel was dropped but I do know that the 1Ds was slammed down. You are right, plastic could have survived, but we each go with our personal experience. I'm not trying to argue with you, just trying to provide helpful examples for others. No need to be so aggressive with your responses to people. I fail to understand why you seem to almost take it personally when someone says that they would prefer metal and then give reasonable reasons for backing that up. If you don't like the metal bodies, and if they are not as good as plastic, don't buy them. Anyhow, thanks again for the conversation and thanks for letting us know you've dropped your plastic body multiple times (and I really do mean thanks, not trying to make a snarky comment)...that truly does add to the conversation.


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## unruled (Aug 14, 2010)

playing devils advocate here: some of you may remember the 350d that fell from a skydivers helmet and survived the drop

http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/845602


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## rrcphoto (Aug 14, 2010)

that1guy said:


> Dilbert - touche. Look, you obviously won't be proven wrong w/ your logic so that is fine. I was just giving examples from my own experience. Aparently they weren't valid enough, so that is fine. From your example, I am actually now feeling a lot better about the plastic, so thanks for sharing your experience. You are right, I don't know how far the plastic rebel was dropped but I do know that the 1Ds was slammed down. You are right, plastic could have survived, but we each go with our personal experience. I'm not trying to argue with you, just trying to provide helpful examples for others. No need to be so aggressive with your responses to people. I fail to understand why you seem to almost take it personally when someone says that they would prefer metal and then give reasonable reasons for backing that up. If you don't like the metal bodies, and if they are not as good as plastic, don't buy them. Anyhow, thanks again for the conversation and thanks for letting us know you've dropped your plastic body multiple times (and I really do mean thanks, not trying to make a snarky comment)...that truly does add to the conversation.



wow .. how'd pros handle the EOS-1, 1RS, 1N and 3 then?

none of them had a mag alloy chassis... it wasn't until the EOS-1v that canon implemented magnesium alloy as a chassis structure.

Now if we go by that - there's alot of materials that canon MAY use to insure a rigid structure - pro cameras on the EF mount have done it before.

I have yet to see anyone complain about the build quality of the EOS-1 or EOS-3 bodies.


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## silvershot77 (Aug 14, 2010)

The best aspect of the 60D will likely be the plastic, not because it's plastic but because photographers wanted Canon to make a lighter unit with a prism vf. The tilt lcd...well, some wanted it, others not. Now we have to see if the af has been upgraded..to make the package complete and compete well with the D95.


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## that1guy (Aug 14, 2010)

dilbert said:


> that1guy said:
> 
> 
> > Dilbert - touche. Look, you obviously won't be proven wrong w/ your logic so that is fine. I was just giving examples from my own experience. Aparently they weren't valid enough, so that is fine. From your example, I am actually now feeling a lot better about the plastic, so thanks for sharing your experience. You are right, I don't know how far the plastic rebel was dropped but I do know that the 1Ds was slammed down. You are right, plastic could have survived, but we each go with our personal experience. I'm not trying to argue with you, just trying to provide helpful examples for others. No need to be so aggressive with your responses to people. I fail to understand why you seem to almost take it personally when someone says that they would prefer metal and then give reasonable reasons for backing that up. If you don't like the metal bodies, and if they are not as good as plastic, don't buy them. Anyhow, thanks again for the conversation and thanks for letting us know you've dropped your plastic body multiple times (and I really do mean thanks, not trying to make a snarky comment)...that truly does add to the conversation.
> ...


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## hoktar (Aug 17, 2010)

unruled said:


> playing devils advocate here: some of you may remember the 350d that fell from a skydivers helmet and survived the drop
> 
> http://www.fredmiranda.com/forum/topic/845602



Nice story but you gotta keep in mind that falling objects never reach a greater speed than about 200km/h. No matter how long or from how high they fall, it doesn't make a difference it it fell from 100m or 10km.

Though it's impressive that is survived a fall at this speed.


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## Jan (Aug 18, 2010)

hoktar said:


> unruled said:
> 
> 
> > playing devils advocate here: some of you may remember the 350d that fell from a skydivers helmet and survived the drop
> ...


Well, I think it's quite impressive that a 350D survives a crash with a speed of 200 km/h. I don't care if it fell from 100m or 10km.


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## unruled (Aug 20, 2010)

Jan said:


> hoktar said:
> 
> 
> > unruled said:
> ...


exactly. the fact that it survived a drop of even more than 10 meters high is pretty nice.


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## hoktar (Aug 23, 2010)

Actually I don't really like te design at all. In fact I hate it, it looks like a toy. Look at those huge gaps between the parts, wtf?
And these round shapes, man I don't like it at all. It looks like just temporarily put together. No smooth lines, just some plastic piece sticked together to shape a DSLR.
Look at the back, why the hell does the screen have to stick out? Seriously? That's just plain ugly. And the curved shape around the cornered screen, wtf? Who designed that camera, did that guy have any clue of design at all? Why doesn't the camera have a smooth back like the 7D has?

Am I the only one who finds it ugly as hell?
I din't think I would ever find e camera ugly, but this one sure is. Glad I waited for it for 2 years now :/

Yea of course, who cares about the design, it's about the photos it shoots, but still, I'd like to have a nice camera too.....


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## Jan (Aug 23, 2010)

hoktar said:


> Am I the only one who finds it ugly as hell?


I don't know. I prefer to wait until I've seen the camera in reality. For me it's the technology that counts. If it's very well usable I don't care if it's ugly or not.



hoktar said:


> Yea of course, who cares about the design, it's about the photos it shoots, but still, I'd like to have a nice camera too.....


You care.  Unfortunately, Apple didn't come out with a DSLR so far...


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## Sebastian (Aug 23, 2010)

Jan said:


> hoktar said:
> 
> 
> > Yea of course, who cares about the design, it's about the photos it shoots, but still, I'd like to have a nice camera too.....
> ...



Not "unfortunately" but "luckily".
I for one definitely don't want to have a D-SLR that is glossy white, can only be operated by touchscreen, only allows the user to take pictures of what Steve Jobs likes and delivers image files that can only be read by Apple software... :


Regards,

Sebastian


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## Jan (Aug 23, 2010)

Sebastian said:


> Jan said:
> 
> 
> > hoktar said:
> ...



You forgot the engraved and illuminated apple in the lens.


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## gaolin (Nov 3, 2010)

dasd


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## kubelik (Nov 10, 2010)

hoktar said:


> Actually I don't really like te design at all. In fact I hate it, it looks like a toy. Look at those huge gaps between the parts, wtf?
> And these round shapes, man I don't like it at all. It looks like just temporarily put together. No smooth lines, just some plastic piece sticked together to shape a DSLR.
> Look at the back, why the hell does the screen have to stick out? Seriously? That's just plain ugly. And the curved shape around the cornered screen, wtf? Who designed that camera, did that guy have any clue of design at all? Why doesn't the camera have a smooth back like the 7D has?
> 
> ...



honestly, I think it's better looking than the 50D it's replacing. I can see the slight bowing-effect on the profile lines not to everyone's taste, but the 50D was pretty rigidly blocky and the 60D shares a lot of family resemblance with the 7D and 550D, neither of which I'd consider ugly. have you seen what nikons and sonys look like?

I see what you mean about the awkward hinge joint for the LCD screen ... probably a compromise between the fluid lines and ensuring the hinge was strong enough. designing something that has not only aesthetic but technical requirements is pretty challenging due the the extremely varied set of demands that are layered upon each other.

as much as people like to point to apple as a paragon of technical and aesthetic integration, apple screws it up too sometimes ... don't tell me none of you encountered the grounded-antennae problem on the iPhone 4. it's not as easy as it looks, and the fact that people think it's easy at all is a testament to the skills of the people in product design


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