# Canon has discontinued another EOS M camera



## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 26, 2022)

> I don’t think it should come as a surprise anymore, especially after the release of the Canon EOS R7 and Canon EOS R10 that the EOS M lineup would ride off into the sunset.
> Canon has discontinued the EOS M200 to follow the discontinued the EOS M6 Mark II. Only the Canon EOS M50 Mark II remains in the lineup. We think that the rumored Canon EOS R100 will be the end of the line for the Canon EOS M50 Mark II as well.
> We have no solid information about any discontinuations of EF-M lenses, perhaps Canon has a plan to keep those lenses...



Continue reading...


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## lustyd (Oct 26, 2022)

If the M6ii was discontinued this would make sense, but it isn't so...


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## PhotoGenerous (Oct 26, 2022)

lustyd said:


> If the M6ii was discontinued this would make sense, but it isn't so...


I thought I missed the M6II being discontinued. (Which could have easily happened)

I'm totally expecting it to happen, but otherwise I'll be keeping mine around until there comes a point where I convert my M mount stuff to Fuji as my pocketable option next to my R stuff.

It's not like my M and EF stuff really had much overlap despite the adapter.


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## lote82 (Oct 26, 2022)

lustyd said:


> If the M6ii was discontinued this would make sense, but it isn't so...


Depending on where you live!


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## lustyd (Oct 26, 2022)

lote82 said:


> Depending on where you live!


Removing a SKU from a couple of regions doesn't change the fact that it's still very much in production and selling across the globe. I'm not saying it won't be, as it clearly will. Making things up to justify your own narrative kind of undermines the whole site though. Why would I believe a rumour written by someone who doesn't even understand the current facts?


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 26, 2022)

lustyd said:


> If the M6ii was discontinued this would make sense, but it isn't so...


It has been out of production for quite some time. Don't confuse inventory with production.


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## lustyd (Oct 26, 2022)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> It has been out of production for quite some time. Don't confuse inventory with production.


They must have a very large warehouse full of them then, as they keep on restocking globally and sales are still quite high. Supply chain simply doesn't work like that in successful businesses.

Don't confuse imagination and opinion with facts.


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## RexxReviews (Oct 26, 2022)

lustyd said:


> Removing a SKU from a couple of regions doesn't change the fact that it's still very much in production and selling across the globe. I'm not saying it won't be, as it clearly will. Making things up to justify your own narrative kind of undermines the whole site though. Why would I believe a rumor written by someone who doesn't even understand the current facts?


I would love to see your source for the sales numbers for this camera around the globe. I think it would be a good read.


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## lote82 (Oct 26, 2022)

RexxReviews said:


> I would love to see your source for the sales numbers for this camera around the globe. I think it would be a good read.


Yes, where are the "facts" you are talking about, lustyd?


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## keg (Oct 26, 2022)

Define quite some time, my M6 mark II was made in february 2022 at least according to the box it came in, the battery is stamped 2021-10-31


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 26, 2022)

lustyd said:


> They must have a very large warehouse full of them then, as they keep on restocking globally and sales are still quite high. Supply chain simply doesn't work like that in successful businesses.
> 
> Don't confuse imagination and opinion with facts.


You can continue down this path, but you're 100% incorrect. The camera is no longer on dealer order lists. Dealers may be able to get 'special' inventory from their sales representative if stock flows between the subsidiaries, which happens.

Dealers had inventory of the 5DS cameras for years after production ended... including the Canon Store.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 26, 2022)

keg said:


> Define quite some time, my M6 mark II was made in february 2022 at least according to the box it came in, the battery is stamped 2021-10-31


Production stopped in May, which comes after February.


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## sanj (Oct 26, 2022)

Some may still not believe.


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## sanj (Oct 26, 2022)

lustyd said:


> Removing a SKU from a couple of regions doesn't change the fact that it's still very much in production and selling across the globe. I'm not saying it won't be, as it clearly will. Making things up to justify your own narrative kind of undermines the whole site though. Why would I believe a rumour written by someone who doesn't even understand the current facts?


Like here...


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## lustyd (Oct 26, 2022)

lote82 said:


> Yes, where are the "facts" you are talking about, lustyd?


Indeed, I look forward to seeing the source information too. Perhaps I missed the link?


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## Blue Zurich (Oct 26, 2022)

RexxReviews said:


> I would love to see your source for the sales numbers for this camera around the globe. I think it would be a good read.


Daily Internet 'Fun at parties' winner!


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## lote82 (Oct 26, 2022)

lustyd said:


> Removing a SKU from a couple of regions doesn't change the fact that it's still very much in production and selling across the globe.





lustyd said:


> Indeed, I look forward to seeing the source information too. Perhaps I missed the link?


For someone pretending to know the sales numbers your lack of knowledge is astonishing! What else did you miss?


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## brent1395 (Oct 26, 2022)

I don't really understand Canon's strategy for M users. I get that it's more efficient for them manufacture just one lens mount, but if I want to get an updated body with all the benefits of the M system, my only choice is to sell all my Canon gear and switch to a different brand. 

All the RF gear is too big, too expensive, or too slow, or in most cases, all of the above. With no way to adapt all my M lenses I spent the last several years and $x,xxx accumulating, there's nothing tying me to the Canon brand any longer. 

I've been shooting Canon my entire photography life (about 20 years) and it seems they are leaving me no choice but to switch to a competitor. It's truly bizarre.


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## lustyd (Oct 26, 2022)

brent1395 said:


> All the RF gear is too big,


No, the new RF-S lenses are there to replace the M ones and similar sizes. We can only hope an M200 and M6 body are coming. There is already the R10 to cover the slightly bigger M cameras with viewfinder.


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## lustyd (Oct 26, 2022)

lote82 said:


> What else did you miss?


Well, for a start I missed all of the evidence that M6ii is discontinued that apparently has been posted here to justify the claims made in the original post. Please share these so we can all benefit. Until then, we can all see the model for sale in most regions, as well as stock levels going down regularly and being replenished regularly.


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## brent1395 (Oct 26, 2022)

lustyd said:


> No, the new RF-S lenses are there to replace the M ones and similar sizes. We can only hope an M200 and M6 body are coming. There is already the R10 to cover the slightly bigger M cameras with viewfinder.


The two super slow EF-S zooms? These are a dramatic step back from the 32mm f1.4, 22mm f2, and Sigma 1.4 trio. My photography and videography would take HUGE step back in picture quality. If I sold my M6mkii and lenses and bought an R7 and those RF-S lenses, it would be a major downgrade, and with all due respect, I don't see how it's debatable.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 26, 2022)

lustyd said:


> Well, for a start I missed all of the evidence that M6ii is discontinued that apparently has been posted here to justify the claims made in the original post. Please share these so we can all benefit. Until then, we can all see the model for sale in most regions, as well as stock levels going down regularly and being replenished regularly.


Canon Japan lists their discontinued products:






キヤノン：一眼レフカメラ／ミラーレスカメラ EOS｜旧製品


一眼レフカメラ／ミラーレスカメラの販売終了した旧製品の一覧です。機種仕様と対応オプション品についてご確認いただけます。




cweb.canon.jp





The M6 II is on the list. The M200 is not yet on it, but if you visit the canon.jp web store you'll see that none of the product links allow an M200/kit to be added to a cart. You can still buy M50 II kits (called Kiss M2 there). That happened with the M6II as well, before it showed up on the Discontinued Products page.


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## lustyd (Oct 26, 2022)

brent1395 said:


> The two super slow EF-S zooms? These are a dramatic step back from the 32mm f1.4, 22mm f2, and Sigma 1.4 trio. My photography and videography would take HUGE step back in picture quality. If I sold my M6mkii and lenses and bought an R7 and those RF-S lenses, it would be a major downgrade, and with all due respect, I don't see how it's debatable.


They obviously are not finished with the range yet, but since they are now RF cameras they also have full access to all EF and RF lenses. I'm sure eventually they will fill in the gaps with small form factor lenses similar to the M range.


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## lustyd (Oct 26, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> Canon Japan lists their discontinued products:


Thanks. Would have been useful it the OP included this given it's linked on the front page


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 26, 2022)

brent1395 said:


> The two super slow EF-S zooms? These are a dramatic step back from the 32mm f1.4, 22mm f2, and Sigma 1.4 trio. My photography and videography would take HUGE step back in picture quality. If I sold my M6mkii and lenses and bought an R7 and those RF-S lenses, it would be a major downgrade, and with all due respect, I don't see how it's debatable.


Hopefully if (still a big if, IMO) Canon actually abandons the M system, they will convert most EF-M lenses to RF-S, as they did with the 18-150mm. Of course, they may not as a way to drive people to FF MILCs. 

Earlier this year, a Canon exec stated that the M system comprises 30% of Canon's global camera sales. I remain unconvinced that they are abandoning the line. It could just as easily be they are discontinuing products for which there is sufficient stock prior to launching their replacements.


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## brent1395 (Oct 26, 2022)

lustyd said:


> They obviously are not finished with the range yet, but since they are now RF cameras they also have full access to all EF and RF lenses. I'm sure eventually they will fill in the gaps with small form factor lenses similar to the M range.


Maybe they will eventually fill in the gaps, maybe they won't. Even if they do, I have my doubts that they will be affordable or small. Right now, I only see two RF lenses that are as fast or faster than the f1.4 options in the M range, and they cost *gulp* $2,599 and $2,099...and they're significantly bigger and heavier. With Canon blocking third party lens manufacturers from making AF RF lenses, Sigma and Tamron will not be coming to the rescue. So my options are to spend several thousand dollars and go back to carrying a big, heavy backpack around like I did 15 years ago, or switch to a different brand.


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## brent1395 (Oct 26, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> Hopefully if (still a big if, IMO) Canon actually abandons the M system, they will convert most EF-M lenses to RF-S, as they did with the 18-150mm. Of course, they may not as a way to drive people to FF MILCs.
> 
> Earlier this year, a Canon exec stated that the M system comprises 30% of Canon's global camera sales. I remain unconvinced that they are abandoning the line. It could just as easily be they are discontinuing products for which there is sufficient stock prior to launching their replacements.


Yes, I think their hope is to drive someone like me to their big expensive full-frame RF systems, but in actuality they will just drive me to their competitors, which are still making systems similar to the M series. With what's out there now, I can't see a way to put together an RF system that rivals what I already have in the M system. But Sony, Fuji, and Panasonic do have options that are similar. Hopefully they do eventually come out with another M body, but they seem to be slowly closing out the system.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 26, 2022)

brent1395 said:


> I don't really understand Canon's strategy for M users. I get that it's more efficient for them manufacture just one lens mount, but if I want to get an updated body with all the benefits of the M system, my only choice is to sell all my Canon gear and switch to a different brand.
> 
> All the RF gear is too big, too expensive, or too slow, or in most cases, all of the above. With no way to adapt all my M lenses I spent the last several years and $x,xxx accumulating, there's nothing tying me to the Canon brand any longer.
> 
> I've been shooting Canon my entire photography life (about 20 years) and it seems they are leaving me no choice but to switch to a competitor. It's truly bizarre.



The reality of the EOS M system is that Canon didn't put serious resources behind it. It was designed and developed by the PowerShot team, not the EOS team. It's almost like they never spoke to each other.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 26, 2022)

brent1395 said:


> With what's out there now, I can't see a way to put together an RF system that rivals what I already have in the M system. But Sony, Fuji, and Panasonic do have options that are similar.


Fuji seems like an attractive alternative. I agree that there's no way to put an RF system together that matches the M system, but that larger sensor comes with benefits and tradeoffs. Personally, I will stick with EOS M bodies/lenses until they stop selling them and mine stop working. For me, the M kit is a secondary system when I want something small and light for travel or local outings. 

However, it's worth noting that my iPhone 14 Pro is like having 3 prime lenses (13mm, 24mm, 77mm) and if you count the 4:1 binning of the 48 MP sensor behind the 24mm lens, you can digitally add a 48mm prime as well. I suspect that means I'll be bringing the M6II along on fewer local outings.


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## brent1395 (Oct 26, 2022)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> The reality of the EOS M system is that Canon didn't put serious resources behind it. It was designed and developed by the PowerShot team, not the EOS team. It's almost like they never spoke to each other.


I agree, but they did develop a few phenomenal, small/light, and relatively cheap M lenses. The F1.4 32mm, f2 22mm, and 11-22mm are all fantastic, and then Sigma came out with the trio to fill in some gaps. If Sigma issued their new 18-50mm 2.8mm for the M series, I'd say the system is pretty close to complete. 

The problem for me is there is simply no upgrade path in the RF system that will get me to where I already am with the M series. I just don't don't get what Canon expects someone like me to do besides switch brands. I have a small hope that they will eventually issue an R7 type body for the M series, but the hope is dwindling with every post I see like this on CanonRumors.


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## brent1395 (Oct 26, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> Fuji seems like an attractive alternative. I agree that there's no way to put an RF system together that matches the M system, but that larger sensor comes with benefits and tradeoffs. Personally, I will stick with EOS M bodies/lenses until they stop selling them and mine stop working. For me, the M kit is a secondary system when I want something small and light for travel or local outings.
> 
> However, it's worth noting that my iPhone 14 Pro is like having 3 prime lenses (13mm, 24mm, 77mm) and if you count the 4:1 binning of the 48 MP sensor behind the 24mm lens, you can digitally add a 48mm prime as well. I suspect that means I'll be bringing the M6II along on fewer local outings.


That's the thing. The M6ii with fast prime lenses still takes significantly better pictures than the iphone 14 in most situations, while only being slightly more of a hassle to carry around. The R7 with their new, slow RF-S zooms on the other hand, doesn't really beat the iphone 14 in many situations. I'd argue (and I know it's arguable) that the iphone would actually perform better for portraits than the R7 paired with those slow zooms, and similarly well for daytime landscape shots. I feel like iPhones have gotten good enough that slow kit zooms on a crop sensor are pointless in most situations these days. Obviously Canon disagrees since they just came out with two of them. For sports and wildlife photographers, there's some value there, but for everything else, I don't see it.


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## koenkooi (Oct 26, 2022)

brent1395 said:


> I agree, but they did develop a few phenomenal, small/light, and relatively cheap M lenses. The F1.4 32mm, f2 22mm, and 11-22mm are all fantastic, and then Sigma came out with the trio to fill in some gaps. If Sigma issued their new 18-50mm 2.8mm for the M series, I'd say the system is pretty close to complete.
> 
> The problem for me is there is simply no upgrade path in the RF system that will get me to where I already am with the M series. I just don't don't get what Canon expects someone like me to do besides switch brands. I have a small hope that they will eventually issue an R7 type body for the M series, but the hope is dwindling with every post I see like this on CanonRumors.


I'm still holding some hope that the rumoured R100 will be very, very close in size to the M6II. If that's the case, I would really appreciate the 11-22, 22, 28 and 32 lenses to get a very close RF equivalent. Although the RF 16mm is nice and small already, it could take the place of the 22mm.


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## brent1395 (Oct 26, 2022)

koenkooi said:


> I'm still holding some hope that the rumoured R100 will be very, very close in size to the M6II. If that's the case, I would really appreciate the 11-22, 22, 28 and 32 lenses to get a very close RF equivalent. Although the RF 16mm is nice and small already, it could take the place of the 22mm.


Yep, basically we need them to re-create everything we already have in EF-M for the RF, and then we will be back to where we already are. Lol I just don't get the value prop for an M user.


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## lote82 (Oct 26, 2022)

lustyd said:


> Well, for a start I missed all of the evidence that M6ii is discontinued that apparently has been posted here to justify the claims made in the original post. Please share these so we can all benefit. Until then, we can all see the model for sale in most regions, as well as stock levels going down regularly and being replenished regularly.


There never was or ever will be an evidence for this, because no manufacturer will ever tell you the truth. Regarding your logic the 6D mark I (!!!) is not discontinued because I can buy a new one on Amazon in US and Germany (just to give an example) ... You still confuse inventory with production!


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## lustyd (Oct 26, 2022)

lote82 said:


> You still confuse inventory with production!


Not really, I just understand global supply chain. If Canon had the quantity of stock being suggested here they'd have been out of business years ago. Yes, there are a few mark 1's in stock still, but when sold they are not replenished. Mark 2 by contrast is widely in stock online and in retail stores and is being regularly replenished. 
It's not asking a lot for a little credibility in postings to substantiate what otherwise looks like complete speculation and which causes real harm to Canon's business as well as the businesses of their stockists. We all know the M series will eventually be replaced, it's looking like small RF-s cameras will take their place, but right now as of today if you want a canon and you want a small form factor these are the option you have and they work perfectly well. Claiming something is dead is easy - being right within a reasonable timeframe is hard, and there have been posts declaring the death of M for a very long time with apparently very little substance in the real world.

Let's just say it's really right though. Let's assume Canon have 100,000 units in some mythical warehouse and have stopped production ready for release of a new camera which we all know is coming. Do you really think telling people not to buy those 100,000 units of "dead technology" will accelerate release of new models? No, quite the opposite, Canon will wait until stock dwindles if they are smart.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 26, 2022)

brent1395 said:


> That's the thing. The M6ii with fast prime lenses still takes significantly better pictures than the iphone 14 in most situations, while only being slightly more of a hassle to carry around.


I mostly agree with the better pictures part, but disagree with _slightly_ more of a hassle to carry. An iPhone fits in a pocket of anything I wear, an M6II with 22/2 fits in an overcoat pocket or in a belt pouch. Either is substantially more of a hassle to carry, especially since I'm going to be carrying a phone anyway. And that's if I only bring one lens (which I often do if that lens is the M18-150, but not often with just a prime lens). 

So for me, it becomes a question of the relative increase in hassle of bringing a small bag (e.g. Think Tank Mirrorless Mover 20) with the M and 2-3 lenses, or a larger bag (e.g. LowePro Fastpack 300 AW) with the R3 and 2-3 lenses.


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## Czardoom (Oct 26, 2022)

brent1395 said:


> I agree, but they did develop a few phenomenal, small/light, and relatively cheap M lenses. The F1.4 32mm, f2 22mm, and 11-22mm are all fantastic, and then Sigma came out with the trio to fill in some gaps. If Sigma issued their new 18-50mm 2.8mm for the M series, I'd say the system is pretty close to complete.
> 
> The problem for me is there is simply no upgrade path in the RF system that will get me to where I already am with the M series. I just don't don't get what Canon expects someone like me to do besides switch brands. I have a small hope that they will eventually issue an R7 type body for the M series, but the hope is dwindling with every post I see like this on CanonRumors.


Or you could buy a new M6 II while you still can and be good for the next 8 years or so and not need to buy any new lenses or switch brands. During those 8 years you can patiently wait and see what Canon does with their R series APS-C cameras and RF-S lenses. I have an R10, which may not be quite as small as the M6 II, but is still very small and light, and who knows what other crop camera may be coming in the next 8 years - maybe even smaller and lighter. If Canon reproduces the M lenses in the RF-S form, that may be the way to go when the time comes that your M6 II bites the dust.

I guess I just don't get when people start worrying about the future if they have a camera and lenses they already like and will be able to use for years to come. Worry when that camera breaks down - there's no reason to map everything out ahead of time, especially since we don't know what camera makers have in their future plans.


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## Czardoom (Oct 26, 2022)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> The reality of the EOS M system is that Canon didn't put serious resources behind it. It was designed and developed by the PowerShot team, not the EOS team. It's almost like they never spoke to each other.


The reality of the EOS M system, is it was designed to be small, easy to use, and with small lenses that can be easily carried almost anywhere (as far as an interchangeable lens camera go). It has lenses that cover all the focal ranges needed for that purpose. Some people understand that. Others, alas, don't and never have.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 26, 2022)

Czardoom said:


> The reality of the EOS M system, is it was designed to be small, easy to use, and with small lenses that can be easily carried almost anywhere (as far as an interchangeable lens camera go). It has lenses that cover all the focal ranges needed for that purpose. Some people understand that. Others, alas, don't and never have.


Plus, with a simple adapter it can seamlessly work with the full EF/EF-S lens lineup so capabilities not available in EF-M mount can be accessed, and an M body can serve as a small/light backup camera to a larger system.


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## brent1395 (Oct 26, 2022)

Czardoom said:


> Or you could buy a new M6 II while you still can and be good for the next 8 years or so and not need to buy any new lenses or switch brands. During those 8 years you can patiently wait and see what Canon does with their R series APS-C cameras and RF-S lenses. I have an R10, which may not be quite as small as the M6 II, but is still very small and light, and who knows what other crop camera may be coming in the next 8 years - maybe even smaller and lighter. If Canon reproduces the M lenses in the RF-S form, that may be the way to go when the time comes that your M6 II bites the dust.
> 
> I guess I just don't get when people start worrying about the future if they have a camera and lenses they already like and will be able to use for years to come. Worry when that camera breaks down - there's no reason to map everything out ahead of time, especially since we don't know what camera makers have in their future plans.


I actually already own two m6ii's. Your advice makes sense from photography perspective, but not as much from a videography perspective. 

For photography the R7 isn't much of an upgrade over the m6ii, and when you take into account the lens lineup, its actually a downgrade IMO. 

But from a videography perspective, the R7 is a big step up from the m6ii. It has several major improvements that have been available from competitors for years now that would be really nice to have. If there were an M mount camera identical to the R7 I would buy it immediately, as I'm sure many other M users would too. But instead I am debating whether I should wait and hope for an eventual updated M body (looking less and less likely), or just cut my losses, sell all my M gear while it still has some value, and leave for another brand never to return. I'm just not sure if Canon no longer cares about customers with my needs or if they mistakenly believe they are offering a viable replacement with the RF-S series.


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## Bob Howland (Oct 26, 2022)

Czardoom said:


> The reality of the EOS M system, is it was designed to be small, easy to use, and with small lenses that can be easily carried almost anywhere (as far as an interchangeable lens camera go). It has lenses that cover all the focal ranges needed for that purpose. Some people understand that. Others, alas, don't and never have.


In other words, Canon made a deliberate, conscious marketing decision to not extend what the M-system could have been. If you want to know what an M-flagship camera could have been, look at the OM-1. The only things that are givens with the M-system are the lens mount and sensor size.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 26, 2022)

Bob Howland said:


> The only things that are givens with the M-system are the lens mount and sensor size.


All the EF-M lenses to date share a uniform 60.9mm diameter.


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## Bob Howland (Oct 26, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> All the EF-M lenses to date share a uniform 60.9mm diameter.


So what! All of the Sigma M-mount primes are larger than that.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 26, 2022)

Bob Howland said:


> So what! All of the Sigma M-mount primes are larger than that.


So it seems to be in internal design constraint imposed by Canon.


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## lote82 (Oct 26, 2022)

lustyd said:


> Yes, there are a few mark 1's in stock still, but when sold they are not replenished. Mark 2 by contrast is widely in stock online and in retail stores and is being regularly replenished.


So where is your proof for anything? How long will the 6DII be produced? Maybe it isn't in production anymore. I don't know, do you? It is indeed unlikely but maybe the 6DI is still in production. I don't know, do you?



lustyd said:


> It's not asking a lot for a little credibility in postings to substantiate what otherwise looks like complete speculation


What credibility do you expect? There will be no evidence or fact to prove you or I are right. It is all about likelihood.



lustyd said:


> We all know the M series will eventually be replaced, it's looking like small RF-s cameras will take their place


With the arrival of the R7/R10 and (even more important) RF-S lenses this process already started. You don't trust canon rumors but if I remember right canon watch was first mentioning the rumored R100. Do you really think it would be wise to produce M200 and an assumed R100 simultaniously? Maybe the stock of M200 is already high enough to satisfy the customers till R100 is in production. Specualtion - yes. But not unlikely.



lustyd said:


> Claiming something is dead is easy - being right within a reasonable timeframe is hard, and there have been posts declaring the death of M for a very long time with apparently very little substance in the real world.


R7 and R10 with two lenses is already enough substance. You say later - I say sooner. Precise enough?



lustyd said:


> and which causes real harm to Canon's business as well as the businesses of their stockists.


False. Two years ago the majority of comments was against cropped RF cameras and esp. against RF-S lenses. 
If your statement was right Canon would had never made the mistake(?!) in developing products the community was against. 
As long as people are interested in rumors sites like CR it is always a benefit for the manufacturer no matter what they write.
If something is a threat (like RF-S to M) is only a question the customers should ask.



lustyd said:


> Do you really think telling people not to buy those 100,000 units of "dead technology" will accelerate release of new models? No, quite the opposite, Canon will wait until stock dwindles if they are smart.


True. But what made you think I'm against this statement? By the way: Personally I'm not interested in something like the R100. I'm only interested in RF-S lenses. How likely is it that new lenses will come to the R100? How likely is it that new lenses will come to the M200?


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## danfaz (Oct 26, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> Canon Japan lists their discontinued products:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


That should be the end of the arguments here.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 26, 2022)

danfaz said:


> That should be the end of the arguments here.


Should be ≠ will be.


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## Skux (Oct 26, 2022)

I've had my eye on a silver M6 II for ages, but alas they've disappeared from retailers here in NZ and vanished from my B&H wishlist a few days ago.

If the lenses are still in production I would love to see one last all-out M camera before RF takes over. Canon did this with the EOS 300X film camera, giving their entry-level camera many features of the enthusiast range like the 1/4000s shutter speed and 7 AF points. The same sort of happened with the EOS 850D which has the rear wheel and AF-on button from the higher end series.


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## AJ (Oct 26, 2022)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> The reality of the EOS M system is that Canon didn't put serious resources behind it. It was designed and developed by the PowerShot team, not the EOS team. It's almost like they never spoke to each other.



To some extent this is true of EF-S as well. The big resources were behind EF, not EF-S. Yes we did see some excellent EF-S lenses early on, but then things petered out. We never got to see updates to the 15-85 or 17-55, for example. 
It'll be interesting to see what will happen to RF-S. Right now there are two zooms adapted from the M line. Will Canon create some new glass for crop sensors? I think time will tell.
One difference between M + EF-S and RF-S is that the M and EF-S mounts are open to third-party offerings (of which there are plenty), but RF-S is Canon only. Will R7 and R10 users get new native glass, or will these users be using EF-S (Canon and third-party) with an adapter? Will Canon put resources behind RF-S?


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## mustafa (Oct 26, 2022)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


So I’m not going to get the M5 mkII I’ve been waiting for, to go with all my M lenses?


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 27, 2022)

AJ said:


> Right now there are two zooms adapted from the M line.


Only one adapted. The RF-S 18-150 is adapted from the EF-M lens, it’s actually the same optics packaged in a new barrel. 

The RF-S 18-45 is a new design, not based on either the EF-M 15-45 or the older EF-M 18-55. The RF-S standard zoom seems to combine the worst of the M kit lenses – a more restrictive focal range (the intersection of the two ranges), and slower (on the wide end or throughout the range, respectively). The only advantage I see to the RF-S 18-45 over the M kit zooms is one that benefits only Canon – it’s a simpler design with a lot less glass (or moulded plastic, as the case may be) that should be cheaper to produce. 



AJ said:


> Will Canon create some new glass for crop sensors? I think time will tell.


I think many people would be happy with EF-M ports, they could do what they did with the 18-150 to the M11-22, M22/2 and other M lenses. 

But Canon knows how well or poorly those higher-spec EF-M lenses sold. If poorly, it wouldn’t surprise me to see few more RF-S lenses, perhaps even just a UWA zoom and no primes.


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## David - Sydney (Oct 27, 2022)

A lower end RP has been rumoured for a long time now. A replacement for the M200 with FF sensor would be welcomed as a second body even without an EVF and perhaps no mechanical shutter similar to the Sigma f/fp concept.

The RF-S lenses are still missing a wide angle prime/zoom. I have never understood why this was not part of the R7/R10 release.
The EF-M 11-22mm could easily be repackaged into a RF-S mount... otherwise the only alternative is adapted EF-S wide angle lenses.


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## Bob Howland (Oct 27, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> So it seems to be in internal design constraint imposed by Canon.


I can't see any technical reason for the constraint. Maybe, just maybe, it was part of an agreement made between various factions within Canon to prevent the M-system from seriously competing with the EOS and R mount cameras.


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## Bob Howland (Oct 27, 2022)

David - Sydney said:


> The EF-M 11-22mm could easily be repackaged into a RF-S mount...


Yes please.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 27, 2022)

Bob Howland said:


> I can't see any technical reason for the constraint.


Nor can I. More likely an aesthetic constraint, which can be very important in a Japanese company. The lenses are all the same size as the outer diameter as the mount itself, which ensures a small overall system size. That was one of Canon’s explicit goals for the system. 



Bob Howland said:


> Maybe, just maybe, it was part of an agreement made between various factions within Canon to prevent the M-system from seriously competing with the EOS and R mount cameras.


That seems unlikely. The M system launched in 2012, so not competing with R mount cameras that didn’t launch until 2018 doesn’t make much sense. If the goal was not to compete seriously with EF mount cameras that was ultimately a failure since 30% of cameras Canon now sells are M (more than the 20% R and 10% P&S, and not far off the 40% DLSR).


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## Ozarker (Oct 27, 2022)

lustyd said:


> Indeed, I look forward to seeing the source information too. Perhaps I missed the link?


Maybe you should ask, or do a search, before acting this way. https://www.canonnews.com/the-canon-m6-mark-ii-is-discontinued-in-japan

There's a search engine called "Google" that is very helpful. The photo shows that B&H lists it as discontinued. The USA is probably one of the biggest markets.


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## jam05 (Oct 27, 2022)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> It has been out of production for quite some time. Don't confuse inventory with production.


Says who? Not Canon


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## jam05 (Oct 27, 2022)

Ozarker said:


> Maybe you should ask, or do a search, before acting this way. https://www.canonnews.com/the-canon-m6-mark-ii-is-discontinued-in-japan
> 
> There's a search engine called "Google" that is very helpful. The photo shows that B&H lists it as discontinued. The USA is probably one of the biggest markets.


Actuall B&H does NOT show it discontinued. Maybe you need to clear your cache. B&H sales support stated that it has not been discontinued in the USA. Canonnews.com gets their info from Canon Rumors. Canon Rumors has been trying to kill off the M system for nearly a decade. Consistantly being wrong. Every time, Canon releases another M50 or M6 Read the arquives. Canon will probably release and M6 MK 3


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## shadow (Oct 27, 2022)

Skux said:


> I've had my eye on a silver M6 II for ages, but alas they've disappeared from retailers here in NZ and vanished from my B&H wishlist a few days ago.
> 
> If the lenses are still in production I would love to see one last all-out M camera before RF takes over. Canon did this with the EOS 300X film camera, giving their entry-level camera many features of the enthusiast range like the 1/4000s shutter speed and 7 AF points. The same sort of happened with the EOS 850D which has the rear wheel and AF-on button from the higher end series.



I was looking earlier today on all Canon MILC's and Adorama has the M6ii silver top model you are looking for in stock as "close out" so check it out, they a large distributor and are also in NYC competing with BH.


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## jam05 (Oct 27, 2022)

Canon set to release an M6 Mk 3. The 32.5mp apsc is hard to beat paired with the M50 mk2. Canon simply has no apsc camera even close at 32.5mp. Sigma's EFM lenses cant be matched at price point by Canon RF alternatives. Not anytime soon


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## shadow (Oct 27, 2022)

Anybody know why BH and Adorama would state "close out" or "discontinued" if it wasn't true? Also, Canon had those decent M lens price reductions, is this to move inventory and end it? efm 22 $179, efm 32 $399.


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## PhotoGenerous (Oct 27, 2022)

brent1395 said:


> I'm just not sure if Canon no longer cares about customers with my needs or if they mistakenly believe they are offering a viable replacement with the RF-S series.


I'm pretty sure what they think is that maintaining two systems isn't worth it. For some M mount users, RF-S will work as an alternative, for others it won't. But the cost of maintaining both mounts outweighs the benefit to retain all M mount users, so they'll take what they can get for a better use of resources and efficiency. Pretty sure it's not a mistake, rather it's a deliberate, weighted decision.

Technology changes, markets change. The FD mount is longer supported. Canon film cameras are no longer made. The change didn't satisfy all their users moving to EF and digital. But it satisfied some, and they took the calculated loss for those that weren't satisfied. Same for this.

That's just what happens with technology in all kinds of consumer segments.

At least with physical technology, the stuff you own still works. In subscription and company maintained server based technology it can just end that instant the decision is made.


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## shadow (Oct 27, 2022)

jam05 said:


> Canon set to release an M6 Mk 3. The 32.5mp apsc is hard to beat paired with the M50 mk2. Canon simply has no apsc camera even close at 32.5mp. Sigma's EFM lenses cant be matched at price point by Canon RF alternatives. Not anytime soon


Where did you read that? I would wait to buy it, if true. Seems to me based on rumors here is the target is R100 with some EF-M lens designs converted to larger R flange, no?


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## jam05 (Oct 27, 2022)

Please, the M200 is not a popular camera. Nobody even cares about the M200. it's not selling as well as the 32.mp M6mk 2 or the M50 mk 2


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## jam05 (Oct 27, 2022)

shadow said:


> Anybody know why BH and Adorama would state "close out" or "discontinued" if it wasn't true? Also, Canon had those decent M lens price reductions, is this to move inventory and end it? efm 22 $179, efm 32 $399.


Only the M200. It doesnt sell as well. NOT the M6 mk 2 or M50 mk 2. Nobody cares about the m200. M lenses have been on sale by region for nearly 5 years. The M6 mk 2 is still $1000. There is no 32.5 mp apsc with the form factor of the M6 mk 2


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## jam05 (Oct 27, 2022)

When Canon releases a 32.5mp apsc with the form factor of the M6 mk 2 you will see those price fall below $999. Until then there will be plenty shipping from Japan for a few years. There simply is no logistics or supply chain to adequately replace Canon's cash cow. The M200 is not the M6 mk 2 or M50 mk 2, of which there are plenty in the USA, and plenty more on their way. Despite what CR has been saying for over 5 years. The USA purchases more M6 mk 2 and M50 than any other market. Canon can discontinue all the other M series cameras and still make a profit on the USA M6k 2 and M50 mk 2 sales alone. Canon doesnt need the M200, but it does need the M6 and M50.


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## jam05 (Oct 27, 2022)

Canon is years if not a decade from every completely replacing the M6 or M50 unit sales. They will likely never equal those sales numbers. Sigma EFM lenses are just hard for Canon to match with RF alternatives. Maybe by 2030


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## shadow (Oct 27, 2022)

jam05 said:


> Only the M200. It doesnt sell as well. NOT the M6 mk 2 or M50 mk 2. Nobody cares about the m200. M lenses have been on sale by region for nearly 5 years. The M6 mk 2 is still $1000. There is no 32.5 mp apsc with the form factor of the M6 mk 2


Adorama website has M6ii listed as *closeout* right now. BH has M6ii body only and 2 kits listed discontinued. The M6ii kit w/ 15-45 with EVF is in stock, no note stating discontinued. Yet for M200 Adorama and BH has no such note and both have M200 in stock. I can't disagree with your opinion as the M6ii is more valid of a product today for 32mp than M200 which is small for photo/webcam/streaming, but the low end market BH has content creator kits listed with the M200, just like Canon offers with the M50, marketing to the low end perhaps they are looking at the target market of YoutTubers with the new Sony ZV-1F at same price ~$500.


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## Ozarker (Oct 27, 2022)

jam05 said:


> Actuall B&H does NOT show it discontinued. Maybe you need to clear your cache. B&H sales support stated that it has not been discontinued in the USA. Canonnews.com gets their info from Canon Rumors. Canon Rumors has been trying to kill off the M system for nearly a decade. Consistantly being wrong. Every time, Canon releases another M50 or M6 Read the arquives. Canon will probably release and M6 MK 3


Canon didn't discontinue the camera and then re-continue it. It's discontinued.


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## Ozarker (Oct 27, 2022)

shadow said:


> Anybody know why BH and Adorama would state "close out" or "discontinued" if it wasn't true? Also, Canon had those decent M lens price reductions, is this to move inventory and end it? efm 22 $179, efm 32 $399.


So they can re-continue it and unclose it later. I saw the same thing, yet some brains around here, for some reason, resist reality. I think what are probably the biggest sellers in the USA know better than some shlub.

B&C Camera in Las Vegas shows them all sold out.


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## dog8food (Oct 27, 2022)

Still can't understand why Canon Rumors Guy get's so excited about the death of the M system. Did it kill his sister or something?


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## Ozarker (Oct 27, 2022)

dog8food said:


> Still can't understand why Canon Rumors Guy get's so excited about the death of the M system. Did it kill his sister or something?


You are new here. WTF are you talking about? You seem far more excitable.


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## SnowMiku (Oct 27, 2022)

I'm not surprised that the M200 is getting discontinued, Canon obviously doesn't see a market for it anymore.

Having only the M50 II left is not looking good for the future of EF-M, but if it's still the best seller like people say it is they could keep producing it for a few years as long as its profitable and until the sales start dropping, then by that point they could release an equivalent R100 (If there is still a market for the R100 at the time) then they will have all the EF-M lens lineup converted to RF/RF-S.


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## Ozarker (Oct 27, 2022)

SnowMiku said:


> I'm not surprised that the M200 is getting discontinued, Canon obviously doesn't see a market for it anymore.
> 
> Having only the M50 II left is not looking good for the future of EF-M, but if it's still the best seller like people say it is they could keep producing it for a few years as long as its profitable and until the sales start dropping, then by that point they could release an equivalent R100 (If there is still a market for the R100 at the time) then they will have all the EF-M lens lineup converted to RF/RF-S.


Sales may or may not be strong, however, what are the profits? Just because sales are hot doesn't mean it is making money or enough to be worth it. Canon may have calculated that an APS-C RF mount camera would be more profitable. We'll never know.


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## SwissFrank (Oct 27, 2022)

> We have no solid information about any discontinuations of EF-M lenses, perhaps Canon has a plan to keep those lenses relevant, as there are some good ones out there.

My hunch is that manufacturers produce most of the goods over a fairly short production run, as the cost of setting up a production line is pretty high, vs. the cost of funding a warehouse with a few years' worth of goods until they're sold.

The EF-M film-to-flange distance was I think 16 or 18mm, while the RF is 20mm, so there cannot be an adapter.


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## SwissFrank (Oct 27, 2022)

lustyd said:


> Removing a SKU from a couple of regions doesn't change the fact that it's still very much in production and selling across the globe. I'm not saying it won't be, as it clearly will. Making things up to justify your own narrative kind of undermines the whole site though. Why would I believe a rumour written by someone who doesn't even understand the current facts?


I'm sure it will be sold as long as inventories last. What makes you think it's "in production" though?

What makes you think the author has "a narrative"? What is that narrative you think they have, and why? How does a rumor "justify" a narrative? Wouldn't only facts prove a narrative correct or wrong?


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 27, 2022)

jam05 said:


> Says who? Not Canon


Yes, Canon themselves say it is.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 27, 2022)

dog8food said:


> Still can't understand why Canon Rumors Guy get's so excited about the death of the M system. Did it kill his sister or something?


Where did you get the idea that I was excited? Right? Yes.... Excited? I honestly don't care one way or another. It's not a system that I have ever had much interest in. I was shooting an X-T3 until the R5 arrived.

I do feel for the people that invested in the system and are somewhat going to be left in the cold. I hope they figure something out with the EF-M lenses, because there are some great ones... but I'm not sure what they can do to make the endeavor worthwhile.


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## Ozarker (Oct 27, 2022)

shadow said:


> I was looking earlier today on all Canon MILC's and Adorama has the M6ii silver top model you are looking for in stock as "close out" so check it out, they a large distributor and are also in NYC competing with BH.


On closeout? No way! You might need to clear your cache. ;} When you don't keep your cache cleared the "discontinued virus" spreads to retailers and posts discontinued all over product pages at random. There are variants too: "Closeout" "Sold Out" etc. The vaccine is administered by clearing your cache./S

Rumors guy just posted a photo of the virus. It looks like this:


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## Ozarker (Oct 27, 2022)

jam05 said:


> Actuall B&H does NOT show it discontinued. Maybe you need to clear your cache. B&H sales support stated that it has not been discontinued in the USA. Canonnews.com gets their info from Canon Rumors. Canon Rumors has been trying to kill off the M system for nearly a decade. Consistantly being wrong. Every time, Canon releases another M50 or M6 Read the arquives. Canon will probably release and M6 MK 3


How in the world is a rumor website going to "kill" a camera or the production of a camera? Weird. That. Power. Does. Not. Exist. It's discontinued.

1. This website changed owners a several months ago. I highly doubt the previous owner conspired with the new owner to keep trying to "Kill" the M6 II.
2. There will be no Mark III
3. Rumors guy is right.
4. Rumors guy just gave you an epic burn in his above post.^^^^^^^^^^^^^


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## lustyd (Oct 27, 2022)

SwissFrank said:


> What makes you think it's "in production" though?


What makes you sure it's not? Occam's Razor would suggest that since it's still widely available and stock is being replenished in all regions other than the couple where it's no longer sold that they are still making them. As I said earlier, anyone with supply chain experience will tell you they don't have a million of them lying about in warehouses, the idea that there's some huge inventory somewhere is pure imagination. Surely Covid demonstrated that when literally everything went out of stock within a month.
Sure, there's evidence that a couple of regional markets have decided to discontinue sales. If there's evidence they are no longer being made I have yet to see it. 
I do agree the M cameras will be replaced very soon, and I do agree that M will not have new cameras. I don't agree that it's dead today, and I don't think it's helpful to tell people to avoid it for the past few years. Many people will buy M cameras this year and enjoy them for years to come.

The M6ii seems better than the R10 in every way to me, so as of today I would still choose M6ii from all of Canon's offerings despite it's apparent demise. I actually tried a couple of Sony cameras as a result of this kind of speculation, and can see why the M series still sells so well.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 27, 2022)

lustyd said:


> What makes you sure it's not? Occam's Razor would suggest that since it's still widely available and stock is being replenished in all regions other than the couple where it's no longer sold that they are still making them. As I said earlier, anyone with supply chain experience will tell you they don't have a million of them lying about in warehouses, the idea that there's some huge inventory somewhere is pure imagination. Surely Covid demonstrated that when literally everything went out of stock within a month.
> Sure, there's evidence that a couple of regional markets have decided to discontinue sales. If there's evidence they are no longer being made I have yet to see it.
> I do agree the M cameras will be replaced very soon, and I do agree that M will not have new cameras. I don't agree that it's dead today, and I don't think it's helpful to tell people to avoid it for the past few years. Many people will buy M cameras this year and enjoy them for years to come.
> 
> The M6ii seems better than the R10 in every way to me, so as of today I would still choose M6ii from all of Canon's offerings despite it's apparent demise. I actually tried a couple of Sony cameras as a result of this kind of speculation, and can see why the M series still sells so well.


I commend your dedication to dying on this hill.


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## Ozarker (Oct 27, 2022)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I commend your dedication to dying on this hill.


Dying on the hill AND falling on his sword. Beginning to think he's just a troll trying to have fun.


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## Ozarker (Oct 27, 2022)

lustyd said:


> What makes you sure it's not? Occam's Razor would suggest that since it's still widely available and stock is being replenished in all regions other than the couple where it's no longer sold that they are still making them. As I said earlier, anyone with supply chain experience will tell you they don't have a million of them lying about in warehouses, the idea that there's some huge inventory somewhere is pure imagination. Surely Covid demonstrated that when literally everything went out of stock within a month.
> Sure, there's evidence that a couple of regional markets have decided to discontinue sales. If there's evidence they are no longer being made I have yet to see it.
> I do agree the M cameras will be replaced very soon, and I do agree that M will not have new cameras. I don't agree that it's dead today, and I don't think it's helpful to tell people to avoid it for the past few years. Many people will buy M cameras this year and enjoy them for years to come.
> 
> The M6ii seems better than the R10 in every way to me, so as of today I would still choose M6ii from all of Canon's offerings despite it's apparent demise. I actually tried a couple of Sony cameras as a result of this kind of speculation, and can see why the M series still sells so well.


Canon says it is discontinued. That means it is no longer produced and has been relegated to the museum. You need to try and keep up when you are in a thread.  Reminds me of The Top Notes in 1960 when they recorded Twist and Shout (Covered later by the Beatles.).


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## AlanF (Oct 27, 2022)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> I commend your dedication to dying on this hill.


CR mirrors the wider world. Here, just like Capitol Hill in terms of denial.


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## lustyd (Oct 27, 2022)

Ozarker said:


> Canon says it is discontinued. That means it is no longer produced and has been relegated to the museum. You need to try and keep up when you are in a thread.  Reminds me of The Top Notes in 1960 when they recorded Twist and Shout (Covered later by the Beatles.).


Canon Japan, yes. Canon Australia too. Global businesses do different things in different markets. This is not evidence they no longer manufacture a model regardless how much certain people wish it was.

They may well have stopped manufacturing them, we have no evidence of that and in fact most evidence points to the contrary right now.


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 27, 2022)

lustyd said:


> Canon Japan, yes. Canon Australia too. Global businesses do different things in different markets. This is not evidence they no longer manufacture a model regardless how much certain people wish it was.
> 
> They may well have stopped manufacturing them, we have no evidence of that and in fact most evidence points to the contrary right now.


It's not like they're made in Japan or anything and that the #1 market for the EOS M cameras is Japan. So, Canon Japan discontinues it, but continues to produce it for lesser markets? Seems reasonable!


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## lustyd (Oct 27, 2022)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> It's not like they're made in Japan or anything and that the #1 market for the EOS M cameras is Japan. So, Canon Japan discontinues it, but continues to produce it for lesser markets? Seems reasonable!


If you have some sort of evidence, perhaps you could share it rather than simply insisting you're right?

If Japan is such a big market, isn't it weird that they are choosing to send their last stock to other markets and cut off the very people who want them most?


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 27, 2022)

Here’s what I don’t get: earlier this year, Canon stated that *30%* of cameras they sell are EOS M. Does it really make sense for Canon to abandon a market comprising that fraction of their sales?


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## lustyd (Oct 27, 2022)

To be fair, they are not abandoning the market. They'll release (eventually) RF cameras to replace M and keep that market. You're right, it makes zero sense to have a huge gap between stopping M and starting R. Obviously (to most of us) they've not done that since they still sell the M.


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## lote82 (Oct 27, 2022)

lustyd said:


> If you have some sort of evidence, perhaps you could share it rather than simply insisting you're right?
> 
> If Japan is such a big market, isn't it weird that they are choosing to send their last stock to other markets and cut off the very people who want them most?


Fact is, it is discontinued. You won't get evidence for speculations. 
Maybe the stock in Japan is already gone because of the high demand of customers in Japan. Maybe it is not that simple and fast to get stock capacities from other countries back to Japan ... But again: That is speculation without evidence. If you want evidence, ask Canon (or tell it to the marines)


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 27, 2022)

lustyd said:


> To be fair, they are not abandoning the market. They'll release (eventually) RF cameras to replace M and keep that market. You're right, it makes zero sense to have a huge gap between stopping M and starting R. Obviously (to most of us) they've not done that since they still sell the M.


They still sell the M50 II.

The Corolla comprises 30% of Toyota’s sales. Would they stop selling all but one trim level of it? Even if they planned to release lower-trim Camrys soon? Seems foolish.

I wonder if we’ll see an M300 launching soon?


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## Canon Rumors Guy (Oct 27, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> Here’s what I don’t get: earlier this year, Canon stated that *30%* of cameras they sell are EOS M. Does it really make sense for Canon to abandon a market comprising that fraction of their sales?


No money in cameras, lenses have the margins.

That 30% number is fine, but it's not like all of those sales are going to go to someone else. The EOS R system will simply take its place, which is why brand power matters, and Canon has that in spades.


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## lustyd (Oct 27, 2022)

lote82 said:


> Fact is, it is discontinued. You won't get evidence for speculations.
> Maybe the stock in Japan is already gone because of the high demand of customers in Japan. Maybe it is not that simple and fast to get stock capacities from other countries back to Japan ... But again: That is speculation without evidence. If you want evidence, ask Canon (or tell it to the marines)


What a strange statement. You're telling us it's definitely a fact while also saying there is no evidence for that speculation. Neuroanatomist makes a great point, why would Canon discontinue supplying 30% of their own market? Why would they discontinue within their allegedly best region first? The obvious answer is that these "facts" are pure BS made up to support a perspective.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 27, 2022)

lustyd said:


> What a strange statement. You're telling us it's definitely a fact while also saying there is no evidence for that speculation. Neuroanatomist makes a great point, why would Canon discontinue supplying 30% of their own market? Why would they discontinue within their allegedly best region first? The obvious answer is that these "facts" are pure BS made up to support a perspective.


Seriously, the M6II is listed as discontinued by Canon Japan on their own website. Who is making up BS here?


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## lustyd (Oct 27, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> Seriously, the M6II is listed as discontinued by Canon Japan on their own website. Who is making up BS here?


I am confused, your own post said you didn't think Canon would abandon the market. As I said, Canon Japan is a sales region which has apparently stopped selling a product. The document doesn't say anything about manufacturing. People here are filling in the gaps with their own imaginations because they want to believe M is already dead. It's not. It probably will be soon, but that's just speculation based on nothing but a general trend.


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## Bob Howland (Oct 27, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> That seems unlikely. The M system launched in 2012, so not competing with R mount cameras that didn’t launch until 2018 doesn’t make much sense. If the goal was not to compete seriously with EF mount cameras that was ultimately a failure since 30% of cameras Canon now sells are M (more than the 20% R and 10% P&S, and not far off the 40% DLSR).


But the R mount or something similar was probably also considered when the M-mount was proposed. A third option was to simply remove the mirror from EF-mount cameras and leave the flange distance intact.


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## koenkooi (Oct 27, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> They still sell the M50 II.
> 
> The Corolla comprises 30% of Toyota’s sales. Would they stop selling all but one trim level of it? Even if they planned to release lower-trim Camrys soon? Seems foolish.
> 
> I wonder if we’ll see an M300 launching soon?


I would very much like to see an M300 with eye-AF in servo mode! 
Every time I use my original M, I think “I really like this formfactor!”, followed by “How did I ever find this AF speed acceptable?!?”


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## Ozarker (Oct 27, 2022)

AlanF said:


> CR mirrors the wider world. Here, just like Capitol Hill in terms of denial.


I've actually had to wonder: Did the virus hit earlier than thought? Did it wipe out reason and logic in part of the population? Because it has been shocking to me that such a large number of people seem to completely disregard evidence and facts in support of their "team". Or, they just don't care about the truth, and the internet is their reality. It really is scary. In a way, it feels like idolatry.


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## roby17269 (Oct 27, 2022)

lustyd said:


> Not really, I just understand global supply chain. If Canon had the quantity of stock being suggested here they'd have been out of business years ago. Yes, there are a few mark 1's in stock still, but when sold they are not replenished. Mark 2 by contrast is widely in stock online and in retail stores and is being regularly replenished.
> It's not asking a lot for a little credibility in postings to substantiate what otherwise looks like complete speculation and which causes real harm to Canon's business as well as the businesses of their stockists. We all know the M series will eventually be replaced, it's looking like small RF-s cameras will take their place, but right now as of today if you want a canon and you want a small form factor these are the option you have and they work perfectly well. Claiming something is dead is easy - being right within a reasonable timeframe is hard, and there have been posts declaring the death of M for a very long time with apparently very little substance in the real world.
> 
> Let's just say it's really right though. Let's assume Canon have 100,000 units in some mythical warehouse and have stopped production ready for release of a new camera which we all know is coming. Do you really think telling people not to buy those 100,000 units of "dead technology" will accelerate release of new models? No, quite the opposite, Canon will wait until stock dwindles if they are smart.


I don't think that speculation on these fora would have any kind of material effect on Canon's sales, positive or negative.

The harm (if harm has happened) done to M sales has been mainly caused by Canon with their obvious lack of investment in the M mount, as opposed to their obvious focus on the RF mount. They are the reason why people (me included) believe the M mount to be sunsetting, if not already dead.


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 27, 2022)

lustyd said:


> I am confused, your own post said you didn't think Canon would abandon the market. As I said, Canon Japan is a sales region which has apparently stopped selling a product. The document doesn't say anything about manufacturing. People here are filling in the gaps with their own imaginations because they want to believe M is already dead. It's not. It probably will be soon, but that's just speculation based on nothing but a general trend.


Have a look at B&H. There are 7 flavors of M6II bodies/kits, of which 6 are listed as discontinued. Or maybe I imagined this screenshot...




I said I don't think they will abandon the M line. I could easily be wrong. CRguy raises a good point that bodies are not as profitable for Canon as lenses (Canon has stated this), and M body sales probably don't significantly drive lens sales. 

If the M50 II is their most popular model of the line globally (it certainly is in Japan), then keeping just that one makes sense. For now. Looking at BCN (camera sales in Japan), the M50 II has been spending time in the bottom half of the top 10 lately. It used to live reliably in the top three, the R10 has been outselling the M50 II for at least two months (could be the new camera effect, though). By comparison, the M200 is typically not even in the top 50 on BCN (although it was last month at #39).


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## lustyd (Oct 27, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> Have a look at B&H. There are 7 flavors of M6II bodies/kits, of which 6 are listed as discontinued. Or maybe I imagined this screenshot...
> 
> View attachment 206043
> 
> ...


Yes, Amazon in the UK looked like that a few months ago and then they were all brought back and plenty of stock available, same in camera shops and department stores here. Often the bundle SKUs will be removed to streamline supply chain, allowing fewer SKUs while still meeting demand. You can still buy the basic kit and lenses separately. This is just optimisation though, and happens all the time in supply chain.


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## dtaylor (Oct 27, 2022)

I don't know why there's a debate over the M6 II being discontinued. The evidence is pretty clear that it has been. It's possible Canon is discontinuing current M models to introduce new ones, given how successful they have been over the years. But it is also possible they are going to consolidate everything to RF with the next R body releases.

I would like to see the M line stick around because I don't believe Canon can get an R body and RF lenses down to that size. The M bodies/lenses really were perfect travel/casual cameras, and a perfect replacement for older P&S cameras.


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## stevelee (Oct 27, 2022)

brent1395 said:


> I've been shooting Canon my entire photography life (about 20 years) and it seems they are leaving me no choice but to switch to a competitor. It's truly bizarre.


You do have another choice: keep using your current equipment as long as it meets your needs and it keeps working, or until you succumb to GAS.


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## koenkooi (Oct 27, 2022)

stevelee said:


> You do have another choice: keep using your current equipment as long as it meets your needs and it keeps working, or until you succumb to GAS.


You're saying that cameras and lenses actually keep working after someone on the interwebs has said they are discontinued!?!?!?!


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## Rocky (Oct 27, 2022)

stevelee said:


> You do have another choice: keep using your current equipment as long as it meets your needs and it keeps working, or until you succumb to GAS.


The pandemic really changed my life. Now I dare not to take any cruise ( used to take a bout 3 or 4 long cruise a year), or land tour ( not comfortable to eat with stranger on the same table). Interest in photography also declined ( I used to like to take close up of flowers, spiders etc). Grand kids have grown up. So I have no use of a new camera . I just hang on to my M50.


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## josephandrews222 (Oct 27, 2022)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> No money in cameras, lenses have the margins.
> 
> That 30% number is fine, but it's not like all of those sales are going to go to someone else. The EOS R system will simply take its place, which is why brand power matters, and Canon has that in spades.


SPOILER ALERT:

What follows is...on the one hand, intelligent conjecture...and on the other hand, uninformed speculation. The post didn't end up the way I envisioned...and the Google-aided translation may be totally wrong/out of context.

=====

I'm trying to imagine the lower limit of the size-and-weight of the ''R100"--









Compare camera dimensions side by side







camerasize.com





Presumably the R100 will not have the viewfinder/pop-up flash bump...but the image above (M200 on left; R10 on right) nicely illustrates the size difference between the M and R mounts.

A different comparison is also revealing--M50II vs R10









Compare camera dimensions side by side







camerasize.com





Here it can be seen that Canon looks to have made a real effort to make the R10 as small as possible; it is a bit shorter than the M5 MkII.

So even if the R100 has the M200's 'candy-bar' profile, it won't be that much smaller than the R10.

...for my own family/travel/street photography, size-and-mass matters. A lot.

Even with (some-as-yet-unannounced) new RF-S lenses, Canon's R-based small-and-light commitment doesn't make sense to me: an R camera cannot simply take the place of a similarly-specced M camera--not for me nor for either of my daughters.

Both of them found it quite easy to transition from their Canon ELPH 300 cameras to the first-gen M (eight years ago?!)...












ELPH 300 HS, M... size comparison - PXLMAG.com


ELPH 300 HS, M... size comparison




pxlmag.com





...their eagerness to 'try' the M-EF M 22mm combination--I was surprised because they both gave me 'The Heisman' (as in "no way, Dad") when I handed them Digital Rebels--they wanted no part of that.

I was reminded of (at least for me) the import of size a week or so ago.

Our new two-person kayak made its maiden voyage and youngest daughter demanded 'proof' that we actually put it in the water...with Mom and Dad actually inside.

I didn't want to take my plus-sized iPhone out on the water so I put my own ELPH 300 back into service to use as a tool to supply the evidence.

It hadn't left the drawer containing point-and-shoot cameras, chargers and batteries.._.in years. _

After charging the battery...on the water, perfectly useful images and videos resulted. I was not surprised--as long as ISO remains low, the ELPH 300 really delivers.

And my-oh-my, the tiny camera itself was such a pleasure to use (as opposed to using an iPhone...which I use daily). And it was ever-so-easy to remove the ELPH from the pocket in my cargo shorts.

I have now purchased an apparently-new WP-DC320L waterproof underwater housing (via eBay...a Canadian seller!) to enable less water worry on my part.

...and also via eBay (an English seller!), I have purchased a similar underwater housing (Meikon, supposedly good for ten meters depth) for my trusty Canon S95, a point-and-shoot that offers more manual control and a slightly larger sensor than the ELPH 300.

[...and I see on eBay that a Meikon housing can be had for the M2-EF-M 18-55mm combination--direct from China...at a fair price]

I write all of this to supply evidence for my experience with digital Canons...from the oh-so-tiny SD10 and ELPH 300, to the full-frame 5D series connected to white Canon lenses (not yet R).

The M series of cameras and lenses...occupy an important place in my mind when selecting the best tool for the job; the Ms offer, for Canon, perfectly serviceable APS-C sensors in the smallest possible bodies.

I am not alone in this regard, and I remain mystified by Canon's thinking...it must come down to dollars and sense!




As CR readers know, Canon fiddles and diddles with specifications, so it is difficult to compare cameras such as the M6 MkII, the R7 and the R10.

The M6 MkII's specs place it between the R7 and R10--it has (sort of) the same sensor as the R7 (32 Mpixels) while the M200 has (sort of) the same sensor as the R10 (24 Mpixels).

[The more modern Rs have distinct Digic-related advantages (compared to the M6 MkII).]

But look at the (body only) prices: R7--$1,500; R10--$980; M6 MkII--$850; M200 (with kit lens)--$550.

Canon's EF-M lenses have *always *been reasonably priced...and an incredible value, in my view.

Perhaps doru to kankaku really is in play for Canon Tokyo.


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## stevelee (Oct 27, 2022)

Rocky said:


> The pandemic really changed my life. Now I dare not to take any cruise ( used to take a bout 3 or 4 long cruise a year), or land tour ( not comfortable to eat with stranger on the same table). Interest in photography also declined ( I used to like to take close up of flowers, spiders etc). Grand kids have grown up. So I have no use of a new camera . I just hang on to my M50.


I traveled so much in 2019 that I wouldn’t have gone much of anywhere in 2020 anyway. I spent 4 nights in Dallas in March, 2020, right before things shut down. Staying home meant that I did more with photography around here. I rented the 24mm and later the 17mm TS-E lenses and had a good time with them. For traveling, I use the G5X II. I got it before my second trip to Europe that year, and took over 3,000 pictures with it. Back home the last two years I used my DSLR even more than usual. Besides the tilt-shift stuff I did more macros and some special projects for our neighborhood newsletter.


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## Act444 (Oct 27, 2022)

Saw this coming. It's too bad, I like the small factor of the M and its lenses, but I guess it is what it is. Glad I picked up a refurb copy a couple months ago. I'd encourage anyone else interested in the M system to make moves now while you still can...


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## Ozarker (Oct 27, 2022)

lustyd said:


> If you have some sort of evidence, perhaps you could share it rather than simply insisting you're right?
> 
> If Japan is such a big market, isn't it weird that they are choosing to send their last stock to other markets and cut off the very people who want them most?


Sorry, but I think you need professional help. You were shown the list from Canon. How do you know where they've sent their last stock or where they want it the most? Show your evidence! In fact, since Canon says it is discontinued, why don't you show your evidence it is still produced contrary to what Canon says. Don't you have some other dead horse to beat the [email protected]#& out of? Or are you going to keep screaming the world is flat?


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## neuroanatomist (Oct 28, 2022)

Ozarker said:


> Sorry, but I think you need professional help. You were shown the list from Canon. How do you know where they've sent their last stock or where they want it the most? Show your evidence! In fact, since Canon says it is discontinued, why don't you show your evidence it is still produced contrary to what Canon says. Don't you have some other dead horse to beat the [email protected]#& out of? Or are you going to keep screaming the world is flat?


To be fair he has a valid point, which is that an item listed as discontinued on Canon Japan’s website certainly means it’s discontinued in Japan, but doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s discontinued globally. 

Pretty clear that the M6II is no longer in production – most M6II flavors also show as discontinued on B&H as well. Out of stock means more can be ordered, discontinued means out and more cannot be ordered. Doesn’t mean retailers won’t be selling stock for some time to come.


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## ashmadux (Oct 28, 2022)

brent1395 said:


> I don't really understand Canon's strategy for M users. I get that it's more efficient for them manufacture just one lens mount, but if I want to get an updated body with all the benefits of the M system, my only choice is to sell all my Canon gear and switch to a different brand.
> 
> All the RF gear is too big, too expensive, or too slow, or in most cases, all of the above. With no way to adapt all my M lenses I spent the last several years and $x,xxx accumulating, there's nothing tying me to the Canon brand any longer.
> 
> I've been shooting Canon my entire photography life (about 20 years) and it seems they are leaving me no choice but to switch to a competitor. It's truly bizarre.



What is bizarre about getting rid of all of your M gear, so you can potentially replace it with a r100 or r10 with no lenses for the garbage they have available for crop. What a lack of replacements for the 32 1.4 or the 11 to 22, much less the 22 f2. There is plenty of $2,000 lenses for you to attach to the shiny new r crop camera..

Nothing bizzare there. Nothing at all!

Being serious though, they are going to re-house some of the M lenses or there is sure to be a launch of more RFS crop when the RF100 drops... Because the scenario for RFS right now is beyond just bad, it's downright stupid as hell. And don't get me started on the non-L RF lenses. What a bunch of trash basic BS.

Canon is living its best life with the R5 and R6 and r3. Everything else is jokes.


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## ashmadux (Oct 28, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> To be fair he has a valid point, which is that an item listed as discontinued on Canon Japan’s website certainly means it’s discontinued in Japan, but doesn’t necessarily mean that it’s discontinued globally.
> 
> Pretty clear that the M6II is no longer in production – most M6II flavors also show as discontinued on B&H as well. Out of stock means more can be ordered, discontinued means out and more cannot be ordered. Doesn’t mean retailers won’t be selling stock for some time to come.


Well isn't that nice. My third m62 which I originally bought new has the dreaded battery failure that they don't even fix in house.

I'll be damned if they swap my body with another rerub... 2 refurbs for a camera that I bought new. At least this one auto focuses properly.

Good luck to m62 owners out there...quality control is horrendous.


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## shadow (Oct 28, 2022)

Ozarker said:


> On closeout? No way! You might need to clear your cache. ;} When you don't keep your cache cleared the "discontinued virus" spreads to retailers and posts discontinued all over product pages at random. There are variants too: "Closeout" "Sold Out" etc. The vaccine is administered by clearing your cache./S
> 
> Rumors guy just posted a photo of the virus. It looks like this:
> View attachment 206041


Why are you quoting my post in this manner? I never argued about this fact I dug up the info on Adorama after your screen shot on BH. My post was in support of the facts on both sites. I also was advising another poster from New Zealand looking to buy the silver model, and where they could find it instead of BH. You are confusing me with the other guy that asked you to clear your cache.


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## cary (Oct 28, 2022)

lustyd said:


> If you have some sort of evidence, perhaps you could share it rather than simply insisting you're right?
> 
> If Japan is such a big market, isn't it weird that they are choosing to send their last stock to other markets and cut off the very people who want them most?


On Canon's US site, the only configuration of M6 II currently available for sale is the refurbished silver model (body only). And it's now on sale for $549. All other variations (new and refurbished, body only and kit) are "out of stock." I have never seen the refurbished model offered that low. Seems they are trying to clear out any remaining inventory for good.


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## Ozarker (Oct 28, 2022)

shadow said:


> Why are you quoting my post in this manner? I never argued about this fact I dug up the info on Adorama after your screen shot on BH. My post was in support of the facts on both sites. I also was advising another poster from New Zealand looking to buy the silver model, and where they could find it instead of BH. You are confusing me with the other guy that asked you to clear your cache.


No. My problem trying to be cute and sarcastic at the same time. I know you're not the guy. "Closeout" was there and I was trying to be funny because even more evidence of discontinued popped up. I meant no Ill will towards you. Just trying to crack a joke. I was the only one who thought it funny. Sorry.


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## koenkooi (Oct 28, 2022)

ashmadux said:


> What is bizarre about getting rid of all of your M gear, so you can potentially replace it with a r100 or r10 with no lenses for the garbage they have available for crop.


Non-crop lenses will work just fine, the RF16 and RF50 are pretty small.

Having said that, I would like to see the response to all eight 2023 lenses being RF-s


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## SnowMiku (Oct 28, 2022)

neuroanatomist said:


> Here’s what I don’t get: earlier this year, Canon stated that *30%* of cameras they sell are EOS M. Does it really make sense for Canon to abandon a market comprising that fraction of their sales?



I'm thinking the majority of that 30% is the M50 II. Maybe the M200 and M6 II were under 5% and not worth it to keep going?


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## shadow (Oct 29, 2022)

Ozarker said:


> No. My problem trying to be cute and sarcastic at the same time. I know you're not the guy. "Closeout" was there and I was trying to be funny because even more evidence of discontinued popped up. I meant no I'll will towards you. Just trying to crack a joke. I was the only one who thought it funny. Sorry.


Apology accepted. I didn't know you were expressing the sarcasm elsewher. Subject matter "discontinued" , lol.

I was heading out today locally to buy another M50 while they are still in stock, but hesitated and still trying to figure out my direction. The M6ii's sold out a month ago and the 90D too, neither will be restocked. The R, RP, R10, R7, R5, R3 are all in stock, and none of which really interest me (except the R10) without AF lens that are fast, small, and inexpensive. Maybe next decade an R wide angle lens like the 11mm F1.8 Sony E I just bought.


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## SwissFrank (Oct 30, 2022)

lustyd said:


> What makes you sure it's not?


> What makes you sure it's not? 

I've been a software engineer for two physical products in my career. Both were pretty short production runs, on the order of 10% of the time the product was sold. The products then sat in a warehouse until actually sold. Maybe Canon's different. Maybe they have 38 production lines, and are constantly manufacturing every camera and lens in their lineup in little trickles. If manufacturing were a job just a few people could do, and the assembly line was only a few stations, it'd be easy to set up a lot of them, but these products seem to be getting more and more complicated, The more steps involved, the longer a production line, and the larger a percentage of the workforce it would require.

For sake of illustration, if you had 30 products, your products took a 50-person assembly line, and you had 100 factory workers, and your factory had space for 100 workstations simultaneously, you could make two products at any given time, and would probably be assembling two products at any given time, and keeping a large stock of the other 36, constantly drawing down.
Another reason I think it may work like this is that constant production often has "rolling changes" whereby they start using some parts of the new model while still using parts of the old model. For instance I've seen an Eden WT-800 bass guitar amp, something with similar complexity to a Canon camera perhaps, with "series 1" style speaker connectors but "series 2" fan grills. It's quite common with cars too. _I have never seen Canon gear or any other camera gear in the modern with rolling changes like this._ That hints that production runs are discontinuous.


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