# Here's the Canon EOS 4000D, A New Entry Level DSLR



## Canon Rumors Guy (Feb 21, 2018)

```
The Canon EOS 4000D specifications and images have leaked ahead of their imminent announcement. This is one of <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/eos-2000d-eos-3000d-eos-4000d-eos-m50-registered-with-russian-agency/">3 new entry level DSLRs</a> that we’ve seen evidence of.</p>
<p><strong>EOS 4000D Specifications</strong></p>
<ul>
<li>18mp CMOS APS-C</li>
<li>DIGIC 4+</li>
<li>Full HD video</li>
<li>2.7″ LCD Screen</li>
<li>ISO range: 100-6400</li>
<li>Wi-Fi</li>
<li>Size: 129.0 × 101.6 × 77.1 mm</li>
<li>Weight: 436 g</li>
</ul>

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## crazyrunner33 (Feb 21, 2018)

Nice! It looks like an affordable redesign of the Rebel T2i.


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## mistaspeedy (Feb 21, 2018)

They must have many leftover 18 megapixel sensors and Digic 4+ chips laying around.

This seems to sit between the 100D (SL1) and 200D (SL2) in weight.

4000D sounds more interesting than 1400D I suppose. Just like 77D sounds better than 810D.


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## James Larsen (Feb 21, 2018)

What in the world is this, lol?
Who would buy this when they could get a T7 or a cheap Mirrorless with much newer tech?

The only way anyone will buy this is if its like $150...


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## slclick (Feb 21, 2018)

Will it have 4k?


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## IglooEater (Feb 21, 2018)

Edit: removed accidental quote.

Please someone tell me that this is not the same 18mp chip we’ve been seeing for 10 or so years!


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## okaro (Feb 21, 2018)

Does it have a plastic lens mount?


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## mistaspeedy (Feb 21, 2018)

It seems it is the same 18 megapixel sensor introduced with the 7D back in 2009.
The Digic 4+ was introduced back in 2014.

Both may have had some minor tweaks done to them, but I assume we have the same old tech with the same old performance.


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## Don Haines (Feb 22, 2018)

Sadly enough, my 60D is still a far superior camera to this one......

I got it 8 years ago.....

It matches or exceeds all the specs, except WiFi.....

Sad.......


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## photogdan (Feb 22, 2018)

James Larsen said:


> What in the world is this, lol?
> Who would buy this when they could get a T7 or a cheap Mirrorless with much newer tech?
> 
> The only way anyone will buy this is if its like $150...



I agree, $150.... but only with a kit lens!


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## bellorusso (Feb 22, 2018)

Where is Canon going with this. What's next? EOS 40 000?


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## mistaspeedy (Feb 22, 2018)

I believe Canon has heard our cries.... this camera is 4K. 4000D


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## Big_Ant_TV_Media (Feb 22, 2018)

A NEW CAMERA FOR TOURIST AND FAKE PHOTOGRAPHERS ON A STRICT BUDGET


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## Don Haines (Feb 22, 2018)

mistaspeedy said:


> I believe Canon has heard our cries.... this camera is 4K. 4000D



+999999999999999999999


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## rrcphoto (Feb 22, 2018)

mistaspeedy said:


> I believe Canon has heard our cries.... this camera is 4K. 4000D



lmao. the ultimate troll by canon.


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## slclick (Feb 22, 2018)

mistaspeedy said:


> I believe Canon has heard our cries.... this camera is 4K. 4000D



Too rich, thanks. 

I really had to look and see if this was actually a USB stick


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## Chaitanya (Feb 22, 2018)

Canon "innovating" .


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## crazyrunner33 (Feb 22, 2018)

IglooEater said:


> Edit: removed accidental quote.
> 
> Please someone tell me that this is not the same 18mp chip we’ve been seeing for 10 or so years!



It's a pure budget camera for the lower market that's using cell phones, not enthusiasts. Recycling old technology is the easiest way to keep cost down. It'll only be a flop if it's priced too high. The added wifi for such a low spec DSLR suggests they're aiming for the market that would spend 300 dollars for a crappy point and shoot attachment for their Moto Z.


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## dsut4392 (Feb 22, 2018)

Where is the card slot? Guess it must be on the bottom through the battery door?


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## Ryananthony (Feb 22, 2018)

okaro said:


> Does it have a plastic lens mount?


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## RayValdez360 (Feb 22, 2018)

Whoa re we to question this. I was told that use random consumers know nothing about what people want. I would pay 3000 for this if Canon tells me to.


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## Don Haines (Feb 22, 2018)

To keep things in perspective, it is a low end body. They will bundle it with a lens, sell it for around $400, and because of the price it will outsell the 1DX2, 5D4, 5Ds, 6D2, 7D2, and 80D combined....


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## mistaspeedy (Feb 22, 2018)

I'm just curious at what point they stop making these old chips... still producing them, or old stockpile. I'm talking about both the 18 megapixel sensor and the Digic 4+ chip.

I thought that they stopped producing the old chips/sensors when they made new ones.

For example... don't they have any 20 megapixel chips laying around from the 7D mark II or 70D? How about those 24 megapixel sensors that were in the pre-on-chip-ADC cameras like the 750D?
What about all those Digic 5, Digic 5+, Digic 6, Digic 6+ and Digic 7 chips?

There must be something particular about these two chips.... they either have a huge stockpile sitting somewhere waiting to be used OR they have some old production line still chugging away that can produce these things very cheaply. I wonder which it is.


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## justawriter (Feb 22, 2018)

Waiting for the facepalms at the first image of this camera attached to a umpity-thousand dollar big white lens. ;D


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## Mancubus (Feb 22, 2018)

It amazes me how they milk the hell out of these super old sensors and processors, releasing so many entry level cameras that are BARELY different from each other and announcing them as new.

And most people who buy these have the false illusion that they will be able to take professional looking photos just by pointing and shooting on auto mode, then be very disappointed when the photos turn out to be inferior to what they get in their smartphones because the phones do a much better automatic processing job to get the best out of the colors and dynamic range.

I bet over 95% of these cameras will see less than 5000 in shutter count in 10 years, most buyers will just be excited with their new toy for a week and then tuck it away somewhere.


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## -pekr- (Feb 22, 2018)

Must be the work of the same product "designer", who specced the 6DII - good enough for masses. Unless they are giving those for free, I can't see the point. Wait - ppl will buy those anyway, so let's have another measure for Canon's success ...


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## Pitbullo (Feb 22, 2018)

I think they had to use this sensor, otherwise it would have out performed the 6Dii low iso DR. Sad but true.


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## mistaspeedy (Feb 22, 2018)

I wonder how many people have been disappointed with the kit lens, not knowing that you can stop it down 1 stop and get much sharper images. These are the people that just give up and let their cameras collect dust, and continue taking pictures with their smartphones or compact cameras.


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## Talys (Feb 22, 2018)

James Larsen said:


> The only way anyone will buy this is if its like $150...



What if it were? 

I mean, I'm curious... if it were a $199 DSLR kit with a last-generation 18-55 lens... would it sell in Costco? 8)

I actually really loved my t2i. Though, I had a 17-55/2.8 lens on it most of the time, hehe.


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## scrup (Feb 22, 2018)

I have a 40d and 400d, if I can get this south of 200 with a lens, im picking one up to complete my set.


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## Talys (Feb 22, 2018)

scrup said:


> I have a 40d and 400d, if I can get this south of 200 with a lens, im picking one up to complete my set.



LOL! Careful what you wish for.

Next Canon will come out with a 4D and you'll have to buy that. ;D


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## Sharlin (Feb 22, 2018)

This is basically a rebranded T6/1300D. Why not just continue selling the 1300D (while also introducing its successor) is anybody's guess.



mistaspeedy said:


> For example... don't they have any 20 megapixel chips laying around from the 7D mark II or 70D? How about those 24 megapixel sensors that were in the pre-on-chip-ADC cameras like the 750D?



The 20MP generation seems to have been an intermediate step, as was the Hybrid AF 24MP gen. Canon standardized on the 18MP design, then made a couple evolutionary steps before again harmonizing their whole APS-C family around the 24MP DPAF on-chip-ADC architecture.


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## 9VIII (Feb 22, 2018)

I kept an 1100D over the 5D2, these cameras are still more capable than the skills of the average photographer.

The most worrying thing is if that black mount actually is plastic, I’m ok with the feel of the 1100D on a 400f5.6, but if that’s a plastic mount then other plastic lenses are pretty much the only thing that should be mounted to it...
Which apparently is how 99% of these bodies are ever used, but it would still be a shame to know that something that is so capable might be getting gimped so harshly.

On the upside if the T6 gets any good flash sales I’ll definitely get one, though if there is that much plastic on this thing it might actually be aiming for a lower price range and not replace the T6. If they are creating a new “super low” entry price model (which would be fantastic), that would bode well for the specs of the T7 (probably the non-DPAF 24MP sensor off the T4i/T5i)


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## Dima 135 (Feb 22, 2018)

This 18mp sensor is curse. 550d looks very good for their time. Very progressive. But this sensor was surpassed immediately by Pentax, Sony and Nikon bodies with 16mp Sony sensor with +/- same noise perfomance but 2-3 stops DR advantage on ISO 100. Then Canon had to answer this. Also immediately. To do something new and leave this 18MP in the past. They did something new, even if not so good, but they did it. After 6 years ! But they did not forget this 18mp. And 8-9 yars later we see flirting with the technologies of 2009 (that were obsolete in comparison with competitors even in 2011), which are difficult to explain.


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## Sharlin (Feb 22, 2018)

If I had to guess, this one might be targeted primarily at developing markets/BRICS. Not everyone on Earth lives in rich Western countries (or Japan).


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## Talys (Feb 22, 2018)

Sharlin said:


> If I had to guess, this one might be targeted primarily at developing markets/BRICS. Not everyone on Earth lives in rich Western countries (or Japan).



Great point. BRICS is a very likely target market.

The cheapest DSLR bundles here are still in the $500 range, though. If they could bring that down, perhaps even in relatively wealthy countries, the hobby would be more accessible to more.

As has been pointed out, A t2i is still more of a camera than a lot of people to need to take very nice photos.


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## luka28 (Feb 22, 2018)

Mancubus said:


> It amazes me how they milk the hell out of these super old sensors and processors, releasing so many entry level cameras that are BARELY different from each other and announcing them as new.
> 
> And most people who buy these have the false illusion that they will be able to take professional looking photos just by pointing and shooting on auto mode, then be very disappointed when the photos turn out to be inferior to what they get in their smartphones because the phones do a much better automatic processing job to get the best out of the colors and dynamic range.
> 
> I bet over 95% of these cameras will see less than 5000 in shutter count in 10 years, most buyers will just be excited with their new toy for a week and then tuck it away somewhere.



well if that was the case than Canon made them a favor, because even if they bought 1dxII with the situation like you described they would get the same photo results so basically Canon saved them a huge amount of money, so Canon is a good guy here


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## Dima 135 (Feb 22, 2018)

Sharlin said:


> If I had to guess, this one might be targeted primarily at developing markets/BRICS. Not everyone on Earth lives in rich Western countries (or Japan).


As a guy who knows how is that working 220 hours in month for 150$ in third world country i dont think that this point have much sense. We have now new 1300d Kit for 350$ and this camera have a metal mount. Maybe in future price on this 4000d will drop even to 300, but this is a territory of a very big and popular used gears market. And you can buy for 300$ something like 60d in condition "careful amateur use". And you can not convince many people that it will be a less reliable option than this plastic toy.


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## transpo1 (Feb 22, 2018)

Despite the old tech, I have to say this all black “Knight Rider” color scheme is pretty sexy.


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## traveller (Feb 22, 2018)

Sharlin said:


> If I had to guess, this one might be targeted primarily at developing markets/BRICS. Not everyone on Earth lives in rich Western countries (or Japan).



Finally, I’ve reached a comment from someone who gets it!


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## LDS (Feb 22, 2018)

Will Canon give one away together any 1D/5D purchase, so your children can play with it? It would be a great way to take them away from phones for a while.

;D


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## Takingshots (Feb 22, 2018)

Simplified innovation? Can't wait for its launch. Beautiful, affordable, nostalgic. Nice color. Keep up the good work !  .


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## Architect1776 (Feb 22, 2018)

James Larsen said:


> What in the world is this, lol?
> Who would buy this when they could get a T7 or a cheap Mirrorless with much newer tech?
> 
> The only way anyone will buy this is if its like $150...



Perhaps that is their thought.
Get little kids into real cameras and away from phone with a camera in them.
Perhaps schools needing digital cameras on a budget that if damaged, or lost are not a major loss.
Lots of reasons for something like this.


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## SkynetTX (Feb 22, 2018)

LDS said:


> Will Canon give one away together any 1D/5D purchase, so your children can play with it? It would be a great way to take them away from phones for a while. ;D


You have the point! And the promo will be: "Buy one 6D Mark II or 5D Mark IV and you get one 4000D with the 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS II kit lens for *free* so your 3+ years old children can learn how to use a real camera!" And they will learn it and when they grew up they will buy a 6D Mark IX (or whaterver it will be) and will get a 40000D with 18MP APS-C sensor and Digic 4 processor and 18-55mm kit lens for free for their children (your grandchildren). And the cycle will go on until the 400 billion 18MP APS-C sensor and Digic 4 processor produced until 2016 will be out of stock. So we can wait for a Canon EOS 4 x 1090 with the same technology and specifications of the 1200D in the distant future.  And we will sing the song: "In the year 2525, if photography is still alive, you can still use a 18MP APS-C sensor with a Digic 4 processor, oh oh oh ..."


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## Talys (Feb 22, 2018)

SkynetTX said:


> LDS said:
> 
> 
> > Will Canon give one away together any 1D/5D purchase, so your children can play with it? It would be a great way to take them away from phones for a while. ;D
> ...



Hey, that is a GREAT bundle. It would take care of one Christmas gift.


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## slclick (Feb 22, 2018)

I agree with the possibility of this being a great educator item. School discount maybe under $200 each. Would make for a good reliable basic body for loaners at high schools and community colleges.


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## Iago (Feb 22, 2018)

With a plastic lens mount, the only lenses that may be safe on this would be pancake or 50 mm f/1.8. I believe in Glass before camera, but now Glass could break the camera? I have taken some great pictures with an 18MP sensor and L Glass. This camera risks giving the end user a poor experiance. Canon's entry level camera is still the SL2, at least that is what I would recomend.


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## jolyonralph (Feb 22, 2018)

Iago said:


> With a plastic lens mount, the only lenses that may be safe on this would be pancake or 50 mm f/1.8. I believe in Glass before camera, but now Glass could break the camera? I have taken some great pictures with an 18MP sensor and L Glass. This camera risks giving the end user a poor experiance. Canon's entry level camera is still the SL2, at least that is what I would recomend.



You could probably count the number of eventual 4000D owners with more than the kit lenses on the fingers of one hand...


This camera is designed for one thing - and that's to give a high-profit easy sale item at the low end for the multitudes of camera shops and other stores around the world to sell to unsuspecting people who think they want an "real camera" but don't have a lot of money. 

No-one who reads reviews will buy this, this camera is for those poor people who rely on store salespeople to tell them what to buy.


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## slclick (Feb 22, 2018)

jolyonralph said:


> Iago said:
> 
> 
> > With a plastic lens mount, the only lenses that may be safe on this would be pancake or 50 mm f/1.8. I believe in Glass before camera, but now Glass could break the camera? I have taken some great pictures with an 18MP sensor and L Glass. This camera risks giving the end user a poor experiance. Canon's entry level camera is still the SL2, at least that is what I would recomend.
> ...



And there is nothing wrong with getting more cameras in more peoples hands because it's the best thing to shoot someone with.


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## ajfotofilmagem (Feb 22, 2018)

At the moment, Nikon D3300 with 18-55mm is being sold for under US$ 400, and it seems that Canon wants to compete in this price range.


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## slclick (Feb 22, 2018)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> At the moment, Nikon D3300 with 18-55mm is being sold for under US$ 400, and it seems that Canon wants to compete in this price range.



The numbers game...In a Target store near you




"Here's a D3300...looks alright"

Oh Honey look, this is a 4000D, that's a lot higher up than the 3300" Let's get that.


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## HarryFilm (Feb 22, 2018)

jolyonralph said:


> Iago said:
> 
> 
> > With a plastic lens mount, the only lenses that may be safe on this would be pancake or 50 mm f/1.8. I believe in Glass before camera, but now Glass could break the camera? I have taken some great pictures with an 18MP sensor and L Glass. This camera risks giving the end user a poor experiance. Canon's entry level camera is still the SL2, at least that is what I would recomend.
> ...



---

How very true! This camera is for Mom & Dad's Tween/Teen kids who need/want to look fashionable in middle school for their "News and Photography" reports and can't or won't shell out $800+ for a used 6D and lens.

While the above sounds a bit cynical coming from me, I have to look at it from a general parental point of view of who is the likely market? It's for Tween/Tweens needing DECENT QUALITY (not fantastic!) near-pro-looking cameras for school work.
And of course Mom & Dad or Grandma/Grandpa will be the ones shelling out for this!
Canon just made a winner for this market. It's STILL a decent sensor in a decent package...It will sell rather WELL!

---

Now.......Should I buy another Red Monstro 8K....OR....is the Sony Venice 6K useable? ....OR.....should I just fly down to Panavision and Arri to see if I can convince them to FINALLY just SELL US the Alexa-65 and/or Panavision DXL-2 so we don't have to rent them all the time! ...OR how about that 800 megapixel Hasselblad? Does that work for medium format video?

So much to choose....soooooo little time! ;-)  ;-)


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## Kethean (Feb 23, 2018)

Anyone else notice that it's using the old 18-55 III? No IS has been used before to keep the cost down, but it was never very popular. Maybe they had a stockpile of those to get rid of too?


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## rrcphoto (Feb 23, 2018)

Iago said:


> With a plastic lens mount, the only lenses that may be safe on this would be pancake or 50 mm f/1.8.



engineered plastics are pretty darn strong. while I wouldn't want to hang a 600/4 - I would imagine most canon lenses won't have a problem with this.


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## rrcphoto (Feb 23, 2018)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> At the moment, Nikon D3300 with 18-55mm is being sold for under US$ 400, and it seems that Canon wants to compete in this price range.



the T5 and T6 go for under $300 if you watch sales.


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## Sharlin (Feb 23, 2018)

Kethean said:


> Anyone else notice that it's using the old 18-55 III? No IS has been used before to keep the cost down, but it was never very popular. Maybe they had a stockpile of those to get rid of too?



The 18-55 III has been the default kit lens of the 1x00D series for a long time, at least in Europe (this photo.se answer seems to indicate that it's not so in North America).


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## 9VIII (Feb 23, 2018)

jolyonralph said:


> Iago said:
> 
> 
> > With a plastic lens mount, the only lenses that may be safe on this would be pancake or 50 mm f/1.8. I believe in Glass before camera, but now Glass could break the camera? I have taken some great pictures with an 18MP sensor and L Glass. This camera risks giving the end user a poor experiance. Canon's entry level camera is still the SL2, at least that is what I would recomend.
> ...



Ironically, this camera with the EF-S 55-250STM is better than any L glass option under $1,000, and my most used lens on the 5D2 was still the 40mm Pancake.

Besides the plastic mount there is nothing limiting about this camera, it will give absolutely professional quality results, which should be obvious with how many professionals seem to be adopting crop systems these days.

If it sells for around $300 new there is no question that the 4000D will be the best value in entry level cameras, I would buy one in a heartbeat if I wanted to visit any country with low security, this gives people a fantastic new option for a lot of things.

Canon should have done this years ago, one of my biggest regrets was ever trying to use a P&S camera for the first 6 years that I was interested in photography, especially given that Macro was one of the first things I wanted to do, I probably wasted dozens of hours just fighting the stupid AF systems because P&S cameras generally don’t come with manual focus (or at least they didn’t in the mid-2000’s).

They could build this out of cardboard and it would still be one of the best cameras on the market.


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## Talys (Feb 23, 2018)

9VIII said:


> Ironically, this camera with the EF-S 55-250STM is better than any L glass option under $1,000, and my most used lens on the 5D2 was still the 40mm Pancake.
> 
> Besides the plastic mount there is nothing limiting about this camera, it will give absolutely professional quality results, which should be obvious with how many professionals seem to be adopting crop systems these days.



I think you're pretty safe there... There isn't a whole lot of L glass under $1,000 

Personally, I think one of Canon's best features is the wide variety of exceptionally good lenses on a budget in the EFS world.

My favorites would be -

EFS 10-18
EFS 18-135
EFS 55-250

Basically, with those 3 lenses and a crop body, you're set for some great photography for just about everything other than sports/birding, and macro. Then, as you polish up some skills, pick up the 50/1.8 and 100/2.8 macro, and there's a lot of capability for not a lot of money.


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## canon1dxman (Feb 23, 2018)

It will also probably sell well in airport duty free shops. People with time on their hands, money to burn and all the gear, no idea wander around Dixons at Heathrow all the time. They will see the signs....new from Canon! Just what you need for that holiday of a life time.....


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## slclick (Feb 23, 2018)

Talys said:


> 9VIII said:
> 
> 
> > Ironically, this camera with the EF-S 55-250STM is better than any L glass option under $1,000, and my most used lens on the 5D2 was still the 40mm Pancake.
> ...


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## SkynetTX (Feb 23, 2018)

I've just checked the pictures again and it seems that we have a built-in flash but the flash button is missing. Does that mean that the flash will fire automatically in every shooting mode in low light conditions? And if we have a 2000D and 4000D with these specifications what can we expect from a 5000D? Will it have automatic modes only for the point and shoot users who would like to upgrade to a professional looking camera and think that photography means that you press the shutter release button?


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## Sharlin (Feb 23, 2018)

SkynetTX said:


> I've just checked the pictures again and it seems that we have a built-in flash but the flash button is missing. Does that mean that the flash will fire automatically in every shooting mode in low light conditions?



If you take a closer look it appears to have ”tabs” presumably allowing you to raise the flash manually.


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## LDS (Feb 23, 2018)

SkynetTX said:


> And if we have a 2000D and 4000D with these specifications what can we expect from a 5000D? Will it have automatic modes only for the point and shoot users who would like to upgrade to a professional looking camera and think that photography means that you press the shutter release button?



It would be the true heir of the T50.... when Canon tried exactly that approach, thirty-five years ago


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## dak723 (Feb 23, 2018)

Mancubus said:


> And most people who buy these have the false illusion that they will be able to take professional looking photos just by pointing and shooting on auto mode, then be very disappointed when the photos turn out to be inferior to what they get in their smartphones because the phones do a much better automatic processing job to get the best out of the colors and dynamic range.



False illusion? An 18 MP camera is far more capable than most people will ever need in taking professional looking photos. I took many professional looking photos with my old 6 MP rebel. My 18 MP SL1 took professional looking photos that were indistinguishable from those professional looking photos that I took with my 6D. Get a grip, in terms of IQ, camera tech has not changed much in the last 10 years.


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## slclick (Feb 23, 2018)

dak723 said:


> Mancubus said:
> 
> 
> > And most people who buy these have the false illusion that they will be able to take professional looking photos just by pointing and shooting on auto mode, then be very disappointed when the photos turn out to be inferior to what they get in their smartphones because the phones do a much better automatic processing job to get the best out of the colors and dynamic range.
> ...



Yes folks with common sense and who have used cameras for longer than Sony has been making FF bodies know that but it's difficult to impress such logic on those who have spent and have to convince themselves that their purchase was somehow taking them to another realm.


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## Mancubus (Feb 23, 2018)

dak723 said:


> Mancubus said:
> 
> 
> > And most people who buy these have the false illusion that they will be able to take professional looking photos just by pointing and shooting on auto mode, then be very disappointed when the photos turn out to be inferior to what they get in their smartphones because the phones do a much better automatic processing job to get the best out of the colors and dynamic range.
> ...



It's not about what people will ever need, it's about tricking them. I am a professional and if my 5D3 breaks I could do my job with a 600D and most people wouldn't notice the difference. The 5D3 is just much better to use but the output is almost the same.

However, people buy these "entry level" cameras thinking they're actually getting a good deal and will be able to take better photos. I feel bad for these people, they're being tricked because Canon keeps pushing these ancient sensors in new bodies that have are barely different from each other.

No camera can save a bad photographer, but there could at least be some software improvements like mobile phone companies have been doing. It would be totally awesome if we had a "smart" camera that could read the situation and do an automatic processing just like the new Iphone/Galaxy cameras but using an APS-C sized sensor.

I've lost count on how many people buy an entry level DSLR, get excited for a week thinking they're taking great photos (hideous actually), and after the hype is gone they end up never using it again.


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## Don Haines (Feb 23, 2018)

dak723 said:


> Mancubus said:
> 
> 
> > And most people who buy these have the false illusion that they will be able to take professional looking photos just by pointing and shooting on auto mode, then be very disappointed when the photos turn out to be inferior to what they get in their smartphones because the phones do a much better automatic processing job to get the best out of the colors and dynamic range.
> ...



The nicest picture that I have ever taken was with a 1.3 megapixel P/S camera.....


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## snegri45 (Feb 24, 2018)

Starting with the original 6 Mpix Digital Rebel I lived professionally off Rebels for eight years until I stepped into the 5D world where I now use the SR, the IV, and the III. In fifteen years we have gone from 6 mpix to 50 while acceptable ISO has gone from 200 to 6400. Frame rates have gotten way higher. Our cameras have become vastly more capable and we have surely benefitted from that.

While I understand that the forum denizens here are knowledgable and passionate, occasionally I feel there is a bit of tech snobbery evident here: "Oh my God! Canon is still selling stone age 18 Megapixel cameras! The horror of it all! And the horrendous kit lenses... Canon is ******* forever..."

The T2i and T3i were my two 18 Mpix go-to professional use cameras for a few years. With battery grips, 580EX IIs on top, mounted with a 17-55/2.8 and a Sigma 50-150/2.8, no-one accused me of imitating a professional while using the same camera Uncle Freddy had. And with careful work on my part, my customers always seemed happy with the quality of my pictures. I have 15 L lenses, 10 of them white, many from my film days. Coupled with my various 5D cameras I have the top rate tools to produce and deliver work of the highest technical quality. And I do pixel-peep!

Yet the vast majority of my non-assignment pictures over a number of years now have been shot with a (lowly 18 Mpix) SL1 (recently replaced with the SL2) and the three plastic mount kit lenses; 10-18, 18-55, and 55-250 (all now STM), as well as a nifty fifty (originally also plastic-mounted.) And that rig has produced outstanding pictures. These lenses are very, very good! They might be plasticky, they might have a bit of distortion, and the sharpness may fall off a bit in the corners, but they sure represent by far the best bang for the buck in all the photo universe. I recently shot the same scene with the SL2/55-250 and the 5D III/100-400 L combinations. The photos were nearly un-dishtinguishable. Given that the first rig can be had for $ 700, and the second cost me (some years back) $ 4,900, I say Canon is doing a bang up job!

Since I am clearly not privy to Canon's strategic thinking, I cannot say what the intended market for a 4000D might be. But I certainly feel that when you get a person away from the cellphone wide-angle lens and into an APS-C camera with a quite good zoom they will absolutely like their pictures a whole lot better! And if Canon can sell cameras using fully depreciated tooling and components I think we will all benefit in the long run.


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## snegri45 (Feb 24, 2018)

Slight addendum to my post: The interior shot was with the 10-18mm at 10mm, wide open at ISO 160. I am going to try to attach a portrait I shot at a Broncolor demo at Adorama yesterday. Long kit zoom at 250mm, again wide open with ISO 3200.


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## stevelee (Feb 24, 2018)

I fail to understand how anybody is being tricked. Nobody is going to expect it to be exactly the same as a $3500 camera. And people who need a more expensive camera know who they are. Or they will learn on an entry level camera, and one of the things that they might learn is why they would want or need a more expensive camera. 

18 MP is not going to get you street cred on a gearhead forum and is not something a teen is going to brag to his date about. But it is plenty of resolution for you to do some cropping and still print out a great 11 x 14. And the camera will allow more control than most people will want to bother with.

"Honey, this $300 camera will turn you into Ansel Adams," says nobody.


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## Adelino (Feb 24, 2018)

Don Haines said:


> dak723 said:
> 
> 
> > Mancubus said:
> ...



Will you post it here?


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## Talys (Feb 24, 2018)

dak723 said:


> Mancubus said:
> 
> 
> > And most people who buy these have the false illusion that they will be able to take professional looking photos just by pointing and shooting on auto mode, then be very disappointed when the photos turn out to be inferior to what they get in their smartphones because the phones do a much better automatic processing job to get the best out of the colors and dynamic range.
> ...



To be totally fair, he did say, get pro quality photos "just by pointing and shooting in auto mode", and in the context of comparing it to a smartphone camera. The problem is, there is no camera in the world, whether it's a 1DXII, A7R3 or t2i that lets you do that.

Photography is light, composition, and sometimes, capturing a moment. If you're just pointing and shooting your camera, whether it's a smartphone, A7R3, 1DXII or 4000D, you'll get one of those elements if you're lucky, very rarely two, and practically never all three.

To get a portrait that's amazing that someone would pay good money for -- a quality that's much more "professional" than a smartphone picture doesn't require a $3000 camera. You can do it with a t2i with a consumer grade zoom. You just need some off-camera lighting (the cheapest flashes will do), some basic light modifiers (cheap umbrellas will do), and knowledge to know how to direct your subject and move yourself to produce a flattering pose.

But take all that away, and give someone who doesn't care to learn about portraiture a $3000 camera and $2000 lens and $600 flash, and they'll still take pictures that are only marginally better than what they get out of their smartphone. Just because they can give an under or over exposed picture a modicum of color doesn't make it a professional photograph.


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## 9VIII (Feb 24, 2018)

Mancubus said:


> dak723 said:
> 
> 
> > Mancubus said:
> ...



Except that they are.
Any EOS body is worth more than every P&S ever made, getting this ecosystem to the lowest price possible is doing everyone a huge favor.

Anyone who is gifted one of these will at least have a chance of being able to learn photography.


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## Hector1970 (Feb 24, 2018)

Looks like a reheated version of a Canon APS-C from 10 years ago but all plastic including the mount.
If it’s really cheap it might be a handy backup camera.
Maybe Canon hope it will get people into DSLRs and get addicted to buying lens.
Like a drug dealer giving free samples.
I think it will cannibalize their lower end cameras.
The margins will be so low I couldn’t see it worthwhile unless they see Massive volume in high populated countries that aren’t buying DSLRs.


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## Talys (Feb 24, 2018)

Hector1970 said:


> Looks like a reheated version of a Canon APS-C from 10 years ago but all plastic including the mount.
> If it’s really cheap it might be a handy backup camera.
> Maybe Canon hope it will get people into DSLRs and get addicted to buying lens.
> Like a drug dealer giving free samples.
> ...



The biggest thing keeping me from using t2i as a backup camera after I got into xxD bodies is the battery. It's such a pain having another charger and another battery type.


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