# No EOS-1D X Replacement in 2014 [CR2]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 29, 2014)

```
<p>There’s been some talk about an EOS-1D X replacement some time in 2014, and it has been discussed even more with the <a href="http://www.canonrumors.com/2014/09/deal-canon-eos-1d-x-body-4799/" target="_blank">apparent price drop on the camera through grey market retailers</a>.</p>
<p>I have it from a good source that the EOS-1D X won’t be replaced in 2014, but should see an update in 2015. This is a pretty safe bet, especially judging by the EOS 7D Mark II features. That brand new 65 point AF system should be making its way to the EOS 5D Mark IV and EOS-1D X Mark II within the next 12-18 months.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


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## keithcooper (Sep 29, 2014)

Maybe at last the return of a Ds model - if of course all the high MP talk means anything ;-)


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## dstppy (Sep 29, 2014)

Crap, my lens cap photography is greatly suffering!


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## Lee Jay (Sep 29, 2014)

But when?

I'm mostly curious about the 5D replacement. Spring or not?


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## whothafunk (Sep 29, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> But when?
> 
> I'm mostly curious about the 5D replacement. Spring or not?


Not spring. Canon has to milk buyers with the 7D2 for a year or so. If they released 5D4 with 7D2's AF feature in spring (5 months after 7D2 got released (not introduced)), who would buy the 7D2, if the 5D4 offers same or even tweaked AF with slightly lower frame, but better IQ?

I find it strange they haven't introduced a new rebel yet. It's been 18 months now.


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## Lee Jay (Sep 29, 2014)

whothafunk said:


> Not spring. Canon has to milk buyers with the 7D2 for a year or so. If they released 5D4 with 7D2's AF feature in spring (5 months after 7D2 got released (not introduced)), who would buy the 7D2, if the 5D4 offers same or even tweaked AF with slightly lower frame, but better IQ?



I would. I would buy both. As it stands, I'll probably buy a 7DII and a 6D, but if the 5DIV comes out sooner than later, I'd probably buy it over the 6D.


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## sanj (Sep 29, 2014)

I was not expecting one. It is not time yet.


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## Dylan777 (Sep 29, 2014)

Sad and good

Found this: http://www.sonyalpharumors.com/the-high-megapixel-war-rumors-canon-46mp-camera-coming-soon-and-sony-in-januaryfebruary/


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## scottkinfw (Sep 29, 2014)

A big disappointment.

Hopefully, a 5DII will come with some great surprises and soon.

Sek


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## justsomedude (Sep 29, 2014)

Did anyone really expect another 1DX this year? I thought it was only the announcement of a new 1DX that people were looking forward to this calendar year.


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## Dylan777 (Sep 29, 2014)

scottkinfw said:


> A big disappointment.
> 
> Hopefully, a 5DII will come with some great surprises and soon.
> 
> Sek



Scott,
Worst case, rent one or two for your up coming trip 

Dylan


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## justsomedude (Sep 29, 2014)

whothafunk said:


> Not spring. Canon has to milk buyers with the 7D2 for a year or so. If they released 5D4 with 7D2's AF feature in spring (5 months after 7D2 got released (not introduced)), who would buy the 7D2, if the 5D4 offers same or even tweaked AF with slightly lower frame, but better IQ?
> 
> I find it strange they haven't introduced a new rebel yet. It's been 18 months now.



I disagree with you on this point.

Those looking only for one camera, namely a 7D2, are not the target market for a 5D4. One is 2x the price of the other. However, those dropping 3600 for a 5D4 can also afford the 1800 for a 7D2. Also, they are two totally different formats/tools (crop&speed vs. full-frame&sensitivity). The extra reach of crop, vs. the creative capabilities of full-frame are huge factors to many pro buyers that cannot be ignored; saying it is just speed vs. slightly better IQ is an oversimplification of what the two bodies offer.

In short, the 7D2 won't effect sales of a 5D4. Buyers on a budget looking for one camera will get a 7D2. Pros with the budget for a 5D4 will either get only a 5D4, or both a 5D4 and a 7D2. They are a dangerous (ie, perfect) pairing.


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## David Hull (Sep 29, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> But when?
> 
> I'm mostly curious about the 5D replacement. Spring or not?


Didn't we just get one?


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## tomscott (Sep 29, 2014)

What I find funny is if you go over to sonyalpharumors many people compare the new Exmor to the 5DMKIII and admit it is a better camera system all round.

These are all comments by sonyalpharumors members on the latest sensor threads.

"dynamic range at higher ISO's where the 5DIII's lurch ahead of their nikon/sony counterparts" 

Funny how even they think DXO is dodgy "If you leave DxOMark planet and land back to earth, you'll see that in real life the difference is very very little, and after ISO400 Canon 6D and 5DMarkIII are as good as or better than Sony sensors"

Also most are in the same camp bout the mega pixel war and know that sony needs to create more native faster lenses 'I'd rather have faster autofocus, in body stabilization, quieter shutter and more native lenses (and faster ones) than more megapixels.'

From that article it seems they are excited to see what Canon do with this new sensor, because although sony make the best sensors their cameras and systems are a lot less than to be desired. Also How much more R&D do sony actually have after putting all into exmor?

Canon was in a similar position a few years ago and then regurgitated the same tech for the last 5 years so that will be interesting to see how far sony can push their tech and if Canon does have new tech how it will rival and the time scales because sony is to announce their new sensors early 2015.

I think thats what we are forgetting and a lot of people on here are the other way round ATM DR and resolution is all the rage and aggressively contested, forget about all that Canon has over its competition and that the 5DMKIII is far from being thrown to the parts bin.


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## Lee Jay (Sep 29, 2014)

David Hull said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > But when?
> ...



Yes, March 2nd of 2012.

The 7DII is not a 5DIII replacement.


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## unfocused (Sep 29, 2014)

Just curious – why would Canon need to replace the 1D-X? It looks to me that the Nikon D4-S has similar or lesser specs. No other camera competes in this market segment, so why do people think it will be replaced anytime soon?

And, for that matter, why would the 5DIII need to be replaced?


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## PureClassA (Sep 29, 2014)

I hope they pull a big surprise. 7D2 will have no measurable effect on a 5D3, let alone a 5D4. I don't understand why people keep trying to compare the two as competing bodies. They are not, nor will ever be. Not in price and not in use.

I think Canon needs to make a statement before 2015. We have the sensors out there. Even if from Sony. I'd love to see a Sony sensor in a Canon system. Talk about the best of everything!


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## cnardo (Sep 29, 2014)

justsomedude said:


> whothafunk said:
> 
> 
> > Not spring. Canon has to milk buyers with the 7D2 for a year or so. If they released 5D4 with 7D2's AF feature in spring (5 months after 7D2 got released (not introduced)), who would buy the 7D2, if the 5D4 offers same or even tweaked AF with slightly lower frame, but better IQ?
> ...



+1


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## justsomedude (Sep 29, 2014)

unfocused said:


> And, for that matter, why would the 5DIII need to be replaced?



When people say a 5D "replacement," they are just referring to the update cycle. I don't think the 5D will be killed off and _totally_ replaced any time soon. That said, I think everyone is expecting an update in line with Canon's historical 5D announcement schedule...

5D - Aug 2005
----3 years 1 month
5D2 - Sept 2008
----3 years 6 months
5D3 - March 2012 
_----3 years ?? months
5D4 - Expected Sometime 2015_


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## J.R. (Sep 29, 2014)

unfocused said:


> Just curious – why would Canon need to replace the 1D-X? It looks to me that the Nikon D4-S has similar or lesser specs. No other camera competes in this market segment, so why do people think it will be replaced anytime soon?



Canon released the 1DX in March, 2012. It took Nikon two years to catch up with the roughly comparable D4-S in March earlier this year (and some people say Canon doesn't innovate, but then that is another matter altogether ). I guess sometime next year, Canon will release the 1DX Mark-II and in doing so, will leapfrog Nikon again for the cycle to continue.


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## Lee Jay (Sep 29, 2014)

PureClassA said:


> I hope they pull a big surprise. 7D2 will have no measurable effect on a 5D3, let alone a 5D4. I don't understand why people keep trying to compare the two as competing bodies. They are not, nor will ever be. Not in price and not in use.
> 
> I think Canon needs to make a statement before 2015. We have the sensors out there. Even if from Sony. I'd love to see a Sony sensor in a Canon system. Talk about the best of everything!



Does Sony make a dual-pixel sensor?


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## 9VIII (Sep 29, 2014)

unfocused said:


> Just curious – why would Canon need to replace the 1D-X? It looks to me that the Nikon D4-S has similar or lesser specs. No other camera competes in this market segment, so why do people think it will be replaced anytime soon?
> 
> And, for that matter, why would the 5DIII need to be replaced?



If it's a high MP body then they're not (unless it still does 12fps), this is a replacement for the 1DsMkIII, which is long, long overdue.

Also stating that the next bodies will get "upgraded" to the AF sensor on the 7DMkII has got to be wrong, that thing has just one f2.8 sensitive point and the rest are f5.6. That would be a serious downgrade.
If they mean the same pattern, all f4 sensitive cross type and with a dozen double cross type points, ok then, but not the exact same thing.


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## Lee Jay (Sep 29, 2014)

9VIII said:


> Also stating that the next bodies will get "upgraded" to the AF sensor on the 7DMkII has got to be wrong, that thing has just one f2.8 sensitive point and the rest are f5.6. That would be a serious downgrade.



All the f/5.6 points are also sensitive at f/2.8. It's a question of precision. Have they made the all-new AF sensor with small enough pixels that even the f/5.6 sensitive points are just as precise at f/2.8 as the old f/2.8 points were at f/2.8, and the new f/2.8 points much more precise with f/1.4 lenses than the old f/2.8 points were?

The specs for the new sensor as for DOF precision don't seem to have been released yet. Or, at least I haven't seen them.


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## wockawocka (Sep 29, 2014)

I believe the 5D4 will be the camera that stops me getting another 1 series body.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 29, 2014)

"12-18 months."

Farther out than I'd have expected for a 5D4.

Of course new type sensors take a long time. That's why some were trying to prod them so strongly earlier on.

The one positive is that maybe, maybe they are holding back for truly new sensors for the 5D4 and 4k?

It does sound like it's time to get some Sony now to at least tie-over though.


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## canonistic (Sep 29, 2014)

unfocused said:


> Just curious – why would Canon need to replace the 1D-X? It looks to me that the Nikon D4-S has similar or lesser specs. No other camera competes in this market segment, so why do people think it will be replaced anytime soon?
> 
> And, for that matter, why would the 5DIII need to be replaced?


I blame Apple. They found that releasing a new (or slightly updated) model every year created excitement and lines around the block and people who just HAD to get the new model. We as consumers now want that "buzz" every year even if the improvement is minor.
In my opinion, digital cameras are pretty awesome now, improvements are evolutionary and NOT revolutionary and a given design will produce useful images for a long time. Still we want that upgrade excitement don't we?


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 29, 2014)

tomscott said:


> What I find funny is if you go over to sonyalpharumors many people compare the new Exmor to the 5DMKIII and admit it is a better camera system all round.
> 
> These are all comments by sonyalpharumors members on the latest sensor threads.
> 
> "dynamic range at higher ISO's where the 5DIII's lurch ahead of their nikon/sony counterparts"



The best at high ISO DR are the 6D/1DX/D4/D4s/D3s not the 5D3, although the 5D3 isn't bad.
Anyway the 5D3 absolutely does not lurch ahead of all Nikon for high ISO DR.



> Funny how even they think DXO is dodgy "If you leave DxOMark planet and land back to earth, you'll see that in real life the difference is very very little, and after ISO400 Canon 6D and 5DMarkIII are as good as or better than Sony sensors"



Dodgy? So a 2-3 stops difference at low ISO DR is too small to even notice but anywhere from 1 stop ahead to 1 stop BEHIND for high ISO DR is incredible?



> Also most are in the same camp bout the mega pixel war and know that sony needs to create more native faster lenses 'I'd rather have faster autofocus, in body stabilization, quieter shutter and more native lenses (and faster ones) than more megapixels.'



Well of course their mirrorless cams have issues as full on general purpose cameras. But the sensors are good. And you can get their sensors in a Nikon body.



> I think thats what we are forgetting and a lot of people on here are the other way round ATM DR and resolution is all the rage and aggressively contested, forget about all that Canon has over its competition and that the 5DMKIII is far from being thrown to the parts bin.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 29, 2014)

unfocused said:


> And, for that matter, why would the 5DIII need to be replaced?



To get 3 stops more low ISO DR and get rid of low ISO banding?
To get a nice 4k?
To get crisp 1080p without RAW?
To get more MP?


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## Lee Jay (Sep 29, 2014)

unfocused said:


> And, for that matter, why would the 5DIII need to be replaced?



Dual pixel, new RGB+IR metering.


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## privatebydesign (Sep 29, 2014)

unfocused said:


> Just curious – why would Canon need to replace the 1D-X? It looks to me that the Nikon D4-S has similar or lesser specs. No other camera competes in this market segment, so why do people think it will be replaced anytime soon?



Because long time Canon 1 series users have been forced into a choice that doesn't sit well. When the 1Ds MkIII came out it was the sensor king, the resolution has proven to be good enough for many but the bodies are old and in need of replacement. There is a market for a high MP 1 series, but there is also a market for a true 1Ds MkIII replacement, a 24MP 1 series with a now attainable high frame rate with all the modern touches like metering, AF, full RT flash integration, iso capabilities, etc etc. 

I believe those after a high MP 1 series wouldn't care too much for the form factor, they would take a regular body design and additional grip option, whereas the core 1 series market has now gotten used to the battery power and rugged functionality of the all in one design.

To be sure, a 1Dx MkII if it were 21-24 MP and 12 fps would be a true 1D MkIV and 1Ds MkIII replacement, the 1DX was not, that there are many out there that would buy into a high mp body, they will do that whatever the form factor.

I also believe the days of the $8,000 DSLR are over though the ten years it worked were pretty cool, it makes much more sense, which means it won't happen, to have a high MP D810 competitor with a similar form factor around $3,500 heck just stick the sensor in a 5D MkIII and change the top plate, and a single 1 series with 24MP and 12fp for $6,000.


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## Viggo (Sep 29, 2014)

I was actually doubting if it were to replaced at all in 2015 even. Always fun and exciting to see a new 1-series, so bring it on 8)


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## DominoDude (Sep 29, 2014)

I have no clue on the reliability of things I've heard, but they fit with this. If anything there's a gap to fill that includes more pixels, and then after that the follow up to 1D X. All with next year as the target.
It _can_ be wishful thinking by the one who said it, but it _can_ also be based on vague facts.

For my sake: It better be good, than rushed.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 29, 2014)

canonistic said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Just curious – why would Canon need to replace the 1D-X? It looks to me that the Nikon D4-S has similar or lesser specs. No other camera competes in this market segment, so why do people think it will be replaced anytime soon?
> ...



3 stops more DR and 4k and such are not minor little nothings
not everyone cares about those things at all, but for those who do they are more along the lines of revolutionary
it's not like going from ipad3 to 4 to Air (I'm still on the ipad3 myself)


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## unfocused (Sep 29, 2014)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > And, for that matter, why would the 5DIII need to be replaced?
> ...





Lee Jay said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > And, for that matter, why would the 5DIII need to be replaced?
> ...



These might be nice, but as someone who actually owns a 5DIII, I don't find any of these to be compelling reasons to upgrade. Judging by some of the comments and recent polls on this site, I'm not sure many other 5DIII owners are feeling a need to upgrade either. Waiting another year or two for more significant technological improvements might make more sense. 



privatebydesign said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Just curious – why would Canon need to replace the 1D-X? It looks to me that the Nikon D4-S has similar or lesser specs. No other camera competes in this market segment, so why do people think it will be replaced anytime soon?
> ...



Okay, I guess I understand. You certainly know more about what 1D users want and need than I do. I am just looking at it from a competitive standpoint, and I'm not seeing anything in the D4-S that the 1D-X doesn't do as well or better. So, was thinking that there was nothing that would make Canon feel they have to upgrade to keep 1D body users from switching brands.


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## Lee Jay (Sep 29, 2014)

unfocused said:


> These might be nice, but as someone who actually owns a 5DIII, I don't find any of these to be compelling reasons to upgrade.



I'm a 5D (not II or III) owner and haven't upgraded, but these things might well encourage me to finally do so.


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## brad-man (Sep 29, 2014)

I am curious about future pricing. I think one of the reasons many 5Dlll owners aren't in such a hurry to upgrade is because of the (what _I_ consider to be) high price. If the 5 series were still selling in the upper 2000s I think upgrading would be more attractive than at $3600. That was quite a hike from the 5Dll to the 5Dlll. I am hoping the greater competition in bodies and lenses from other manufacturers are forcing Canon to take a step back from their great price hikes. I bought a 6D rather than a 5Dlll because_ I_ didn't feel the focus system was worth an additional $1700. But more recently comes the very reasonably priced EF16-35 f/4IS and the also reasonably priced 7Dll. So will Canon continue this pricing trend with the 5DlV and introduce it for a more reasonable $2900-3200 to avoid more folks from migrating to a Sony or Nikon body? Or am I just dreaming?


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## keithcooper (Sep 29, 2014)

No idea about what this may mean for the 5 series (it'll get replaced eventually and it will be 'better), but as a few others have mentioned, it would be nice to see a true successor to the 1Ds3 at last (for the not insignificant number of 1Ds3 users, who don't just didn't see the 1D X as much of an 'improvement' ;-)

Around £5000 should be enough to annoy lots of people... ;-)


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 29, 2014)

unfocused said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...



What more significant improvements? If 4k isn't anything, nor crisp 1080p, nor firmware with aids that actually let you focus video and see blown highlights, nor better metering, nor dual pixel AF, nor 3 stops DR at low ISO, nor 1+ stops DR at high ISO, nor 46-46MP, etc. what are you expecting?


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## Besisika (Sep 29, 2014)

unfocused said:


> Just curious – why would Canon need to replace the 1D-X? It looks to me that the Nikon D4-S has similar or lesser specs. No other camera competes in this market segment, so why do people think it will be replaced anytime soon?
> 
> And, for that matter, why would the 5DIII need to be replaced?


I understand your point of view, it is market-based and makes totally sense.
From my user stand point though, since they did not "upgrade" it with the dual-pixel technology, it makes me feel left aside, as "lower" camera like 70D and 7D II has the functionality, as well as the cinema C series and only 1DX didn't get it. 
I know, it depends on the user and many don't need it.
Now that I know how powerful that feature is for what I do, the more I discover more of its potential the more I regret that 1DX didn't get it. I did panning yesterday and I really really missed it with live view stills, not to mention video.
Don't get me wrong, I won't replace my 1DX for anything on the market, I just regret that it didn't get it. The next version most certainly will have it. If I could upgrade for $500 I wouldn't think of a new version.


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## unfocused (Sep 29, 2014)

LetTheRightLensIn said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > LetTheRightLensIn said:
> ...



First, I'm not sure your wish list is realistic. 

Second, I'm not a video person, so neither 4K nor 1080 p has any interest for me personally. (Although I recognize that it might interest video people) but not convinced it is such a necessity that some people think, given that now and for the foreseeable future most video is going to live on the internet. 

I can see blown highlights without the camera telling me. 

I'm regularly amazed at how good the existing Canon metering is already. Even when I bracket to compensate, the camera's chosen exposure is almost always spot on. 

I don't use live view, so dual pixel has never been a big interest.

You should know by now that low ISO dynamic range isn't a big deal to me. (I'll take it if given to me, but I'm not interested in paying for it.)

I'm always interested in high ISO improvements, but pretty pleased with the 5DIII's performance as it is.

And, for me, 46 mp is not a plus, it's a negative.

Now, I know that's just me. But, reading a lot of comments on this site from a lot of 5DIII owners, I think I may be more typical than you suspect.

So, what would interest me?

In-camera AFMA;
Lightfield technology, offering post-exposure focusing;

Throw in user friendly wi-fi and touchscreen, higher frame rate, an in-camera photo editing program (especially one that can be linked to an iPad) so you can edit images, convert them to jpeg and post to the internet all without having to first transfer the files to a computer, better weather sealing, and a few other improvements we haven't thought of yet. 

Aside from the Lightfield technology, which may be a few more years away from making autofocus systems obsolete, the rest of this stuff should be either available now or available in the near future. 

In the meantime, my main point is simply that I'm content with the current 5DIII and don't see much that would make me upgrade.


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## Dylan777 (Sep 29, 2014)

Besisika said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Just curious – why would Canon need to replace the 1D-X?



Instead of 41 cross AF pts, about 65 AF pts all cross. About another 3/4 to one fullstop at higher ISO. Otherwise, I agree with you. The X is an amazing camera. We human(including myself) always want better, faster, and more precise. 

I'm sure others will come up with more, but those are what I'm hoping in X II. I don't mind getting more surprises from Canon in X II body.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Sep 30, 2014)

unfocused said:


> LetTheRightLensIn said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...



Oh, well if lightfield is the only thing you'd consider big then I think you'll be waiting well more than another year or two. Well, well, well, well, well, well, more. More like another decade or two for a FF DSLR with everything else also top quality.

I don't think anything in my list is unrealistic. Crisp 1080p you can already get from others. 4k is already out (even if external recording only for APSC/FF size for now). Exmor-like DR is obviously already out. More than 23MP is already out in FF. Focus aids for video and zebras are already out. Zoomed video modes are already out. Better metering is already out.

I mean if the 5D4 doesn't have crisp 1080p video or 4k or more MP or better DR and pixel quality or zoomed video modes or better metering what will it have? Lightfield is YEARS away at best. So what, in cam AMFA? After all these years we waited just for in camera AMFA? And are expected to shell out thousands for that? If the 5D4 has none of that stuff, it will be left in the dust, heck even by the 5D3 (since a 5D3 with ML at least has crisp 1080p option, video focusing aids, zebras).

What would it have finally the fixed AutoISO (a 1 penny feature to implement) and in camera AMFA? That sells the 5D4?? How low can you set the bar?


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## 9VIII (Sep 30, 2014)

Lee Jay said:


> 9VIII said:
> 
> 
> > Also stating that the next bodies will get "upgraded" to the AF sensor on the 7DMkII has got to be wrong, that thing has just one f2.8 sensitive point and the rest are f5.6. That would be a serious downgrade.
> ...



I think this is the information you're looking for.

http://www.usa.canon.com/cusa/consumer/products/cameras/slr_cameras/eos_7d_mark_ii?selectedName=Features&fileName=0901e02480cf26fa_feature3.html

But then they give the caveat "The number of available AF points, and whether single line or cross-type, varies depending on the lens."
I have no idea what they're talking about, unless some of the AF points are cross type at f5.6 and become single line at an aperture faster than f5.6, which really just sounds dumb.
Then there's the overly optimistic idea that some of the AF points surrounding the center still work at f8, but you'd think they would have said as much if that were the case, given how big a deal f8 autofocus is.

I guess this would be why some people are so eagerly awaiting the release of the manual.


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## Lee Jay (Sep 30, 2014)

9VIII said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > 9VIII said:
> ...



The manual is out, and this didn't have the needed information. Are the focus points accurate to 1 DOF, 1/3 of the DOF, 1/10th of the DOF, etc.?


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## gjones5252 (Sep 30, 2014)

I am defiantly waiting on the new upgrade. The 7dm2 sounds good. Wished for high megapixels but that's really not what the 7d line is meant for. 
I have never had a 1 series body. The next 1 whatever that's released will probably end up big my first. If it has either high megapixels or 4k it will meet my needs. 

Also I have a theory. I think Canon should have different firmwares depending on whether your a video shooter or a photo shooter. Not so much that you lose functionality but the menu changes to show you and adapt the buttons to your needs. When I am shooting video I do need video jobs it's annoying to access video features. Especially if they add more. 
Or we will just start shooting video and pulling high res stills.


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## ewg963 (Sep 30, 2014)

whothafunk said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > But when?
> ...


 The 5D and 7D are two whole different markets apple and oranges....


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## ewg963 (Sep 30, 2014)

justsomedude said:


> I disagree with you on this point.
> 
> Those looking only for one camera, namely a 7D2, are not the target market for a 5D4. One is 2x the price of the other. However, those dropping 3600 for a 5D4 can also afford the 1800 for a 7D2. Also, they are two totally different formats/tools (crop&speed vs. full-frame&sensitivity). The extra reach of crop, vs. the creative capabilities of full-frame are huge factors to many pro buyers that cannot be ignored; saying it is just speed vs. slightly better IQ is an oversimplification of what the two bodies offer.
> 
> In short, the 7D2 won't effect sales of a 5D4. Buyers on a budget looking for one camera will get a 7D2. Pros with the budget for a 5D4 will either get only a 5D4, or both a 5D4 and a 7D2. They are a dangerous (ie, perfect) pairing.


+100000000000000000000000000


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## ewg963 (Sep 30, 2014)

PureClassA said:


> I hope they pull a big surprise. 7D2 will have no measurable effect on a 5D3, let alone a 5D4. I don't understand why people keep trying to compare the two as competing bodies. They are not, nor will ever be. Not in price and not in use.
> 
> I think Canon needs to make a statement before 2015. We have the sensors out there. Even if from Sony. I'd love to see a Sony sensor in a Canon system. Talk about the best of everything!


+100000000000000000000000000000


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## jeffa4444 (Sep 30, 2014)

Here are some hard facts:- 
Globally full frame DSLRs represent 7% of the available market as of H1 2014. Cropped 64% and CSC 29% (this is solely for inter-changeable cameras not fixed lens). Admittedly the full frame segment is where their is some stability in value & cameras shipped but its not significantly growing. In 2014 CSC globally grew by 17% and 19% in value. 

The camera makers are stuck, Smart Phones have taken the lower end and the upper end is saturated the only way to reverse this is with a sesmic shift in design and technology. To most people a four year old camera gives similar results to one this year. Arguably the 2009 7d is inferior to the IQ from the 2014 7dMKII but many will not decern the difference in normal shooting conditions. Certainly the main lenses sold with these cameras have hardly changed so Japan, Korea, China & Germany have a problem which calls for REAL innovation. 

Figures quoted published industry data


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## keithcooper (Sep 30, 2014)

jeffa4444 said:


> Here are some hard facts:-


Whoa - dangerous talk on a forum like this sir! ;-)

As ever, I'm strongly inclined to agree with Thom Hogan's comments about the concerted efforts of camera companies to bury their heads in sand, or at least stick fingers in ears and hum... http://www.bythom.com

Of course the real elephant in rooms like this is that changing cameras/lenses will make tiny (and largely irrelevant) differences to most people's photography, and they ought to get out more and spend more time actually taking photos.

OK, time to get my coat... ;-)


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## RodS57 (Sep 30, 2014)

9VIII said:


> Lee Jay said:
> 
> 
> > 9VIII said:
> ...



After going through the focus guide and the same section in the manual it looks like

Centre point is double cross if lens is faster than Or equal to F2.8 all others are single cross
All points are single cross for lens with a max aperture of F5.6
With a max aperture smaller than F5.6 (say 6.3) you start to lose the crosses. The points become single line vertical or horizontal points and you start to lose access to points at the extreme edges of the array. Looking at the tables both my 15-85 and 70-300L are in table 'B' so I get 65 cross type points. Don't know about the Tammy 150-600.

Disclaimer: I really don't know anything about this stuff.

The latest fly in the ointment is the software release which, from the specs, requires a minimum of Windows 7 to run. Uh-oh, the only computer here that I can install DPP on is my wife's and that isn't gonna happen. Still looking into the USB3 for compatibility with USB2. Probably just get a card reader.


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## Lee Jay (Sep 30, 2014)

USB devices are all backwards compatible. You can plug a USB3 source into a USB2 port, no problem.


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## Old Sarge (Sep 30, 2014)

RodS57 said:


> The latest fly in the ointment is the software release which, from the specs, requires a minimum of Windows 7 to run. Uh-oh, the only computer here that I can install DPP on is my wife's and that isn't gonna happen. Still looking into the USB3 for compatibility with USB2. Probably just get a card reader.


I found that to be a bummer also. My PC and old laptop both have Vista and, because of some legacy programs I would find it hard to do without, I don't intend to upgrade to Windows 8. My Surface Pro 3, recently acquired, runs 8 so I might put DPP on it. But truth be told, I rarely use DPP anyway so it is only a minor bummer at this point in time.


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