# to all the Megapixel and DR whiners....



## Lichtgestalt (Nov 2, 2013)

i wonder why don´t you just go to CHANGE.ORG and create a petition to canon?

instead you waste days of your lifetime whining and complaining on a forum no canon official (who has something to say) visits.

nobody from you has enough energy to do somenthing that at least has a small chance to be usefull?


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## sandymandy (Nov 2, 2013)

perhaps we should really do a kickstarter campaign. i mean some games get like over 20mio$. what if we can present canon with over 20mio (could be way more) to finally present us a mirrorless?


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## Pi (Nov 2, 2013)

I believe that whining is more effective. It spreads quickly (this is the Internet) and it will hit Canon where it hurts, in the pocket.


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## Ricku (Nov 2, 2013)

Pretty pointless thread don't you think? Remember how the AF-crowd cried their hearts out about the 5D2 AF? Well, look what that got them. :

Flaws are meant to be whined at, or no change will come.


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## sanj (Nov 2, 2013)

Ricku said:


> Pretty pointless thread don't you think? Remember how the AF-crowd cried their hearts out about the 5D2 AF? Well, look what that got them. :
> 
> Flaws are meant to be whined at, or no change will come.



I believe OP is recommending whining, just with who he thinks the 'right' people are.


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## Lichtgestalt (Nov 2, 2013)

> Pretty pointless thread don't you think?



well sure not as pointless as the endless MP and DR postings here. :
isn´t it be better to complain where (maybe) someone listen to what you have to say?

make a petition on change.org... it sure has greater impact as ankorwats former ramblings here. ;D




> I believe that whining is more effective. It spreads quickly (this is the Internet) and it will hit Canon where it hurts, in the pocket.



yeah well you might check that again. 

all the mentioned whining about the 5D MK2 autofocus did not bother canon at all.
the 5D MK2 sold like hot cakes. and the 5D MK3 sells very well... despite only 22 MP and oh so mediocre DR.

the funny thing is... the fantasys about what people achieve with whining and the reality is so contrary.

a few hundred hardcore geeks on a internet forum are nothing compared to the number of customers out there.


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## Pi (Nov 2, 2013)

Lichtgestalt said:


> all the mentioned whining about the 5D MK2 autofocus did not bother canon at all.



It did. We got the 5D2 with a new AF and the same mediocre sensor. 

Then people started whining about "too many pixels", and the "stupid mp war". You know what followed.


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## Lichtgestalt (Nov 2, 2013)

Pi said:


> Lichtgestalt said:
> 
> 
> > all the mentioned whining about the 5D MK2 autofocus did not bother canon at all.
> ...



ROTFL... so you think canon would not have improved the AF otherwise? ;D

you may think about this again.. competition with other brands may play a more important role here then a few unsatisfied forum users. 

and there is the 6D autofocus.. how you explain that?
after all it should have at least an AF like the 7D ... not?

canon must be very bad at learning when they "learend their lesson" from the 5D MK2 but could not translate that to the 6D.

i think canon does what it thinks makes economical sense and has a close look on what the competition does.


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## chilledXpress (Nov 2, 2013)

I can hear veins popping and certain CR members are already convulsing... once the seizures subside the DRoning will commence. It's easier to whine, shake your fists in the air and threaten to jump ship than it is to actually sell your gear and jump ship.


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## 9VIII (Nov 2, 2013)

This is Canonrumors.com, I stand by my right to type out words with no logical foundation.

Next year, Canon will release a 52MP Medium Format Compact Camera! For $500!

Vive la Rumors!


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## Pi (Nov 2, 2013)

Lichtgestalt said:


> Pi said:
> 
> 
> > Lichtgestalt said:
> ...



In your mind, this proves that Canon did not listen?


> you may think about this again.. competition with other brands may play a more important role here then a few unsatisfied forum users.



Exactly, and this is what the whining was for. With the new models, the roles got reversed. Canon got new AF, Nikon got more mp.



> and there is the 6D autofocus.. how you explain that?



A low priced model. What is it here to explain?


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## Lichtgestalt (Nov 2, 2013)

i see.. the whiners prefer to spend yet another day writing stuff nobody cares about instead of taking the few minutes to create a petition. ;D 

imo... that shows how much you really care. 



> Exactly, and this is what the whining was for. With the new models, the roles got reversed. Canon got new AF, Nikon got more mp.



it´s natural that things try to get in balance.
most people don´t want a 2 MP camera with the best AF.
so of course companys work on their weak points.

you sound like you think the whiners are the reason why canon is doing R&D.




> A low priced model. What is it here to explain?



all the 5D MK2 AF whiners could have bought a more expensive camera with better AF? 
is that your argumentation? 

the "community" in internet forums is not very happy with the 6D AF.
so why did canon not make them happy? 
after all.... canon should have seen that coming after they read/heard complains about the 5D MK2 AF. not?

so isn´t that in opposition to what you think happend?
or has canon to learn each time from scratch? endless complains.. endless whining....

to me it seems proof that canon has more important things to consider then what a few forum user want.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 2, 2013)

Lichtgestalt said:


> you sound like you think the whiners are the reason why canon is doing R&D.



The whiners are the _target_ of some of Canon's R&D. Apparently you're unaware of Canon's clandestine research program. I think most people are unaware of it, and the few that run across it assume it's to support the US Military, based on the project's code name. While it makes sense that people would just assume it's a typo, it's named as Canon intends it: *Project DRone Strike*.


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## distant.star (Nov 2, 2013)

.
Those who whine about whiners are the whiniest whiners of them all.


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## zim (Nov 2, 2013)

Lichtgestalt said:


> the "community" in internet forums is not very happy with the 6D AF.
> so why did canon not make them happy?
> after all.... canon should have seen that coming after they read/heard complains about the 5D MK2 AF. not?



Canon will make them happy, eventually. Guess what the 6D2 will improve on! will it be incremental, 11 cross points or get the 7D AF treatment who knows. They have given themselves lots of wiggle room and created a line with mileage. It’s about getting people to buy stuff but always wanting to come back for more, they are very very good at it.


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## Lichtgestalt (Nov 2, 2013)

zim said:


> Lichtgestalt said:
> 
> 
> > the "community" in internet forums is not very happy with the 6D AF.
> ...



yeah and some people will think "look that´s what i have achieved with my constant whining on internet forums".

like in the dark ages, they still don´t realize the universe is not rotating around them.


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## chilledXpress (Nov 2, 2013)

Just found this product, it may help...




Crepto Dismal by David.K.M, on Flickr


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## AmbientLight (Nov 2, 2013)

Lichtgestalt said:


> zim said:
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> 
> > Lichtgestalt said:
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I don't know why no one else has brought this one up, but here it is:
Canon actually sends questionnaires to get feedback regarding their camera products, at least for the 1D series. 

We therefore cannot assume that Canon does not care regarding consumer feedback. Therefore whining on a forum or elsewhere may indeed be productive. I wouldn't want to underestimate the impact of what is essentially a user forum. Indeed there is only one such forum anyway. There are not dozens of competing forums, which is what has led all of us here.


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## scottkinfw (Nov 2, 2013)

I must be collateral damage!

I'm going to slam my head against the wall until my 5D3 produces 100MP with huge DR. I'm going nuts with whining already!!!!!!!

Make it stop.

sek

I mus


neuroanatomist said:


> Lichtgestalt said:
> 
> 
> > you sound like you think the whiners are the reason why canon is doing R&D.
> ...


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 2, 2013)

Lichtgestalt said:


> like in the dark ages, they still don´t realize the universe is not rotating around them.



All here know that the twin centers of the universe are the headquarters of Sony and Nikon, one the pinnacle of highlight, the other the nadir of shadow, between them defining the greatest and most puissant Dynamic Range ever imaginable. 

Take your Copernican heresy elsewhere.


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## AmbientLight (Nov 2, 2013)

neuroanatomist said:


> Lichtgestalt said:
> 
> 
> > like in the dark ages, they still don´t realize the universe is not rotating around them.
> ...



Errm, I believe Lichtgestalt referred to posters believing that the universe rotates around them. Nevertheless ;D ;D ;D


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## mountain_drew (Nov 2, 2013)

Oh no, people discuss possible improvements in a forum focusing on camera bodies on a website discussing rumors about the latest innovations. How dare they?


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## Pi (Nov 2, 2013)

mountain_drew said:


> Oh no, people discuss possible improvements in a forum focusing on camera bodies on a website discussing rumors about the latest innovations. How dare they?



Those are no people, those are DRones.


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## sdsr (Nov 2, 2013)

Lichtgestalt said:


> i wonder why don´t you just go to CHANGE.ORG and create a petition to canon?
> 
> instead you waste days of your lifetime whining and complaining on a forum no canon official (who has something to say) visits.
> 
> nobody from you has enough energy to do somenthing that at least has a small chance to be usefull?



I don't think you quite understand whining. Doing something that might (however unlikely) actually bring about change - petitions to Canon, switching brands, petitioning others to switch brands en masse, etc. - is not a substitute....


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## Lichtgestalt (Nov 2, 2013)

AmbientLight said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Lichtgestalt said:
> ...



nero did understand the hidden meaning. 



> We therefore cannot assume that Canon does not care regarding consumer feedback.



they care. 
the question is do they care about what happens in this forum. a forum with a few hundred active people? for all we know they don´t. otherwise the 6D would have a better AF and the 5D MK3 more MP and DR. 
we would have the EF 100-400 II and a EF 14-24mm by now.... and the 24-70mm f2.8 II would only cost 1300 euro.... and skintones would look much better. ;D



> Doing something that might (however unlikely) actually bring about change - petitions to Canon, switching brands, petitioning others to switch brands en masse, etc. is not a substitute....



im sure they can find other things to whine about.
how crappy their pictures or skills are, for example.

but where is the petition?
i asked the whiners to make one... it only needs ONE person... that´s what this thread is about.
doing something constructive instead of whining.
but all i read from the whiners is more of the same old stuff.
nobody gets his ass in motion. ;D

i don´t care i have my phase one... so don´t ask me. 

so where is the lone dynamic ranger that saves us?


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## sandymandy (Nov 2, 2013)

stereotype whiner?!


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## Lichtgestalt (Nov 2, 2013)

sandymandy said:


> stereotype whiner?!



all memory cards full with f1.2 portraits, incredible wildlife shots and 10 minute lee bigstopper seaside motives..... i guess. 

;D


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## Eldar (Nov 2, 2013)

Lichtgestalt said:


> sandymandy said:
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> 
> > stereotype whiner?!
> ...


Only way to get it to the website fast enough ...


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## Lichtgestalt (Nov 2, 2013)

Eldar said:


> Lichtgestalt said:
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> 
> > sandymandy said:
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nah.. she is doing a selfie with burger king behind her....


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## unfocused (Nov 2, 2013)

As someone who has spent far too many years on this forum I know that the complainers will never be satisfied.

I remember the 40D owners who were waiting with breathless anticipation for the next generation of their camera (most had skipped over the 50D as a interim model -- sort of a 40.2D actually.) Then when the 7D came out they complained bitterly about the price and swore they'd wait for the 60D, which they demanded should have all the features of the 7D but be two-thirds the cost.

When the 60D finally arrived they were shocked, shocked, that it had fewer features than the 7D. And, complained endlessly on this forum how Canon didn't care about them.

In the meantime, the unveiling of the 7D caused 5DII owners to whine endlessly about their autofocus and swear that Canon had sold them out by not including a similar autofocus in the 5D. 

At the same time, thread after thread recounted how Canon was sacrificing ISO performance in the pursuit of ever-higher megapixels. Readers constantly wrote in about how Nikon's low resolution sensors were infinitely superior to Canon's higher megapixel sensors

When Canon announced the 1DX, those who worshiped at the altar of "H" swore that it would rise from the dead to save the world. Any suggestion that the format had become obsolete was met with angry denials and interminable threads about how Canon had betrayed them. 

As we counted down the months to the release of the 5DIII, the whiners insisted they absolutely knew that Canon would never give them an autofocus system like that of the 1DX and people would be lucky to get the 7D autofocus. Instead, we were told, Canon would jam a high megapixel sensor into the 5DIII because that was all Canon cared about.

The release of the 1DX and finally the 5DIII left the whiners in disarray. Canon had reversed course and instead of going for excessively high megapixels had released two bodies that excelled in low light. And, to add insult to injury, Canon had given the 5DIII an absolutely incredible autofocus system. 

Not to worry though, it was only a temporary setback. 

With Canon now setting the industry standard for ISO performance, it wasn't long before the whiners pivoted to megapixels and dynamic range. How could anyone be expected to take pictures with these cameras that had such low resolution and such poor dynamic range? (This of course, requires the complainers to ignore the fact that Nikon chose not to put a high megapixel sensor in their own flagship camera – but facts need not get in the way of a good complaint.)

It's not hard to predict the future. Canon and Nikon will continue to release excellent cameras. They will differ from one another in increasingly insignificant ways that will only be visible to those shooting test shots of garage doors with the sun reflecting on a mirror in one corner and a black cat sitting under the shade of an evergreen in the other and the image enlarged to 2,000 percent.

The complaints will continue. Canon and Nikon will continue to sell cameras. And, I will continue to waste time on this forum, when I should be processing pictures.


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## Eldar (Nov 2, 2013)

The historian has spoken, and close to the truth he is ...


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## jointdoc (Nov 2, 2013)

Eldar said:


> The historian has spoken, and close to the truth he is ...



+1


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## ajfotofilmagem (Nov 2, 2013)

unfocused said:


> As someone who has spent far too many years on this forum I know that the complainers will never be satisfied.
> 
> I remember the 40D owners who were waiting with breathless anticipation for the next generation of their camera (most had skipped over the 50D as a interim model -- sort of a 40.2D actually.) Then when the 7D came out they complained bitterly about the price and swore they'd wait for the 60D, which they demanded should have all the features of the 7D but be two-thirds the cost.
> 
> ...


Thanks for the summary of the recent history of CR. ;D It's amazing how the passage of time gives us a better understanding of the facts. :


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## retina (Nov 2, 2013)

@unfocused : great post!


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