# Yet Another Upgrade Advice Request



## Juvenall (Feb 17, 2012)

Long time lurker looking for some advice on where to go next with my equipment.

When I was a kid (late 80s, early 90s), I was given a Canon AE-1 with a 50mm f/1.8 and that hooked me on photography, but some family issues growing up make it impossible to take it any further than the equipment I had. While I managed to get the fundamentals mostly figured out, it wasn't until my first son was born in 2008 that I made the jump to digital with the XS. That managed to break (error 99) the day my second son was born in 2010, so I darted out to the first store I could find and picked up the T1i. 

*Shooting Style*
Can't say I've picked a style yet, but looking over my shots from the last few years, I've taken a lot of people shots (mostly candid, very few posed), and have spent a ton of time this last year and a half or so going to random public events like the Detroit Electronic Music Festival, North American International Auto Show, local music shows, and various smaller carnivals. With two kids, a big part of my shooting involves family, but find me someone into photography with kids that doesn't and I'll eat my strap. 

*Bodies*
Canon Rebel XS (broken)
Canon Rebel T1i

*Lenses (All with hoods)*
Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II
Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS (x2)
Canon EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM
Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS 
Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8 L IS USM II (w/B+W 77mm UV Filter)

*Flashes*
YongNuo YN-468 II E-TTL

*Extras*
Case Logic SLRC-206 SLR Camera/Laptop backpack
Lowepro SlingShot 100
BlackRapid RS-4
LensPen
25+ year old Vivatar tripod

*My Thinking*
I'm looking to swing around $2,000 (US). My first thought was to use the Canon Loyalty Program to trade in that broken XS for a 7D, then snag something like the 85mm 1.8 and upgrade my 50mm to the 1.4 (mostly for the USM) or look at one of the 100mm 2.8 macros. The T1i has been good to me, but the limit of my noise tolerance on that body is ISO 800. Anything above that and in most shots, its not something I have the skill to fix in Lightroom/Photoshop.

So obviously, the 5D MkII hit my radar and it's ability to maintain top tier IQ at ISOs my T1i has trained me to think is impossible. The best deal I can find for this body new or used is in the $1,800+ range, so realistically (after any taxes or shipping) the body would be the only thing I could pick up and given my current selection, would limit me to my 50 and 70-200. Then with the rumors on the MkIII flying around, I could soldier through another year of "meh" performance and save up for that if it turns out to be the beast it's looking to be. 

Of course, it's totally possible that I say screw a new body and stick with the T1i a while longer and invest that chunk of money into all of the above in new glass (I'm looking at you, 24-70) and/or a solid tripod, new bags, straps, and other things that will likely long outlive the lifecycle of a camera body. 

That's where I need your help. I'm far from a pro (and by that, I mean no one other than my own ego depends on the quality of my work), have no friends into photography, live an hour+ away from the nearest camera store, so my ability to experiment is really limited. Any advice would be a massive help. 

...and sorry for the wall of text. I've just seen so many of these "advice" threads where people trying to help keep having to ask the same questions over and over again, so I just wanted to stuff in as much relevant info as I could.


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## LuCoOc (Feb 17, 2012)

I'd say keep the T1i and get one lens at a time. Start with the 85mm 1.8. If you like the low light capabilities take a look at the 24mm and 35mm L lenses a few months later. Afterwards you might want to upgrade your 50mm. Also sell your 18-55 IS (two of them?) and keep the 55-250mm (could be handy when hiking or the 70-200 attracts to much attention  )


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## marekjoz (Feb 17, 2012)

Sell 
Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II
Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS (x2)
Canon EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM
Canon EF-S 55-250mm f/4-5.6 IS 

Buy 
Canon EF 50 1.4
Canon EF-S 17-55 2.8


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## awinphoto (Feb 17, 2012)

marekjoz said:


> Sell
> Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II
> Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS (x2)
> Canon EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM
> ...



Sell all the above mentioned lenses, sell T1, trade xs in to loyalty program and pick up 5d2 and 24-105 L. Pick up 50 1.4 if funding allows or save up for fast prime of your choice.


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## alipaulphotography (Feb 17, 2012)

Sell everything.

Buy 5D MKII and 50mm f/1.4.

Take photos and worry less about gear.


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## Juvenall (Feb 17, 2012)

alipaulphotography said:


> Take photos and worry less about gear.



That's great advice for sure, but I'm not exactly "worried" about the gear. I'm looking to add to or improve my tool belt, not just buy a new hammer.


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## awinphoto (Feb 17, 2012)

Juvenall said:


> alipaulphotography said:
> 
> 
> > Take photos and worry less about gear.
> ...



The 24-105 is a very worthy lens that can be attainable if you sell all those lenses... Also upgrading your cameras to the best camera you can afford. If you can trade it in via the loyalty programe and swing a 5d2, sweet... the 7d is an awesome camera and can suit you well... 60D if you cannot get either... or you can wait to see what cameras come out this next year. Lenses aren't anything to skimp on...


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## Juvenall (Feb 17, 2012)

awinphoto said:


> The 24-105 is a very worthy lens that can be attainable if you sell all those lenses... Also upgrading your cameras to the best camera you can afford. If you can trade it in via the loyalty programe and swing a 5d2, sweet... the 7d is an awesome camera and can suit you well... 60D if you cannot get either... or you can wait to see what cameras come out this next year. Lenses aren't anything to skimp on...



Not skimping on the lens is exactly how I ended up with the 70-200 2.8 IS Mk2. Easily the best advice I've ever read. It's been amazing and I wish I would have picked it up sooner. The 24-105 and 24-70 are two that are for sure on my short list should a body upgrade not offer much.

In terms of selling, my only problem there seems to be the market. I've tried to ditch the two kit lenses (17-55) twice with no real luck. Best offer I got for one was $35. At that price, I'd rather keep them around as emergency backups. The 55-250 doesn't seem like a real hot item on eBay or other forums with "For Sale" sections, but I could give it a go. The real winner seems to be the 15-85 as it looks like I could unload that fast (even though I do love it) for close to what I paid for it last year.

All great advice so far. I'm already looking into some fast, wide 2xmm lenses that I never would have thought about. Please keep the ideas coming!


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## jwong (Feb 17, 2012)

Juvenall said:


> Not skimping on the lens is exactly how I ended up with the 70-200 2.8 IS Mk2. Easily the best advice I've ever read. It's been amazing and I wish I would have picked it up sooner. The 24-105 and 24-70 are two that are for sure on my short list should a body upgrade not offer much.
> 
> In terms of selling, my only problem there seems to be the market. I've tried to ditch the two kit lenses (17-55) twice with no real luck. Best offer I got for one was $35. At that price, I'd rather keep them around as emergency backups. The 55-250 doesn't seem like a real hot item on eBay or other forums with "For Sale" sections, but I could give it a go. The real winner seems to be the 15-85 as it looks like I could unload that fast (even though I do love it) for close to what I paid for it last year.
> 
> All great advice so far. I'm already looking into some fast, wide 2xmm lenses that I never would have thought about. Please keep the ideas coming!



I'd suggest skipping the midrange zooms for now, your budget is limited and your 50mm has good value. I would suggest upgrading to the 5dii and selling your 55-200 and 18-55s for the 17-40L. That would give you 17-40, 50 and 70-200, so you really do not need a midrange zoom. That would give you significantly more range on the wide end (17 vs. 15*1.6), which is useful. You can then get the 1.4x TC to restore the range on the long end later if you need it. So, for slightly more than a net of 2k, you'd have a large range (17-280 with the TC) and you would have moved to FF.


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## barryjphoto (Feb 17, 2012)

Here's what I would do:

Sell Nifty Fifty
Sell Kit lenses and 55-250

I bet you could gain $500-575 for those.
Sell the broken for parts ~ $75
Sell the T1i to a film student at a local Community College or elsewhere for $250.
Maybe pair it with a kit lens. 

I bet you could get about $850 for all the above.

Keep the 15-85 and the 70-200 of course.

Now you need a 7D body and a couple primes. The 50 1.4 isn't as sweet as the 85 1.8 but on a crop it makes a better than decent indoor sports lens and a nice head and shoulders portrait glass. What I see you missing is a sweet crop only UWA such as an EF-S 10-22 or a Tokina 11-16. 
Your sales could pay for the Canon 10-22 and your savings could buy the 7D body and 50 prime.

You'd have the best crop body available, the best UWA for crop, a good normal prime, a good walk around and a great zoom. 

You'd be SET! After that I'd suggest an Induro AT313 tripod with a nice BHD ballhead and maybe a Giottos monopod.


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## wickidwombat (Feb 18, 2012)

jwong said:


> Juvenall said:
> 
> 
> > Not skimping on the lens is exactly how I ended up with the 70-200 2.8 IS Mk2. Easily the best advice I've ever read. It's been amazing and I wish I would have picked it up sooner. The 24-105 and 24-70 are two that are for sure on my short list should a body upgrade not offer much.
> ...


good advice here, although i'd look at selling the 15-85 too and picking up an 85mm f1.8 too look i would worry about a teleconverter just yet but when you do look at the kenko 1.4 300 dgx great value for money


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## Chuck Alaimo (Feb 18, 2012)

marekjoz said:


> Sell
> Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II
> Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6 IS (x2)
> Canon EF-S 15-85mm f/3.5-5.6 IS USM
> ...



Go for the 50mm 1.4, but stay away from the 17-55 2.8! If you decide to go FF anytime within the next 2-3 years the 17-55 is EF-S mount, you won't be able to use it on FF....


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## marekjoz (Feb 18, 2012)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> marekjoz said:
> 
> 
> > Sell
> ...



I think that 2, 3 years is quite a long period to stay out from EF-S having in FF mind. We're talking here about selling 5 lenses at a time. Do you think it's a problem to sell 17-55 in 2, 3 years?


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## Pieces Of E (Feb 18, 2012)

Juvenall, you brought back memories for me. The TV show 'James At 16' really hooked me on photography. The star had a Canon AE-1 slr too and for a kid growing up in a very small town on a very small family budget, boy was I hooked. Now I have a 7D, but really wish I had an original AE-1 to look at. 

Thanks again for the memories and sorry I slightly deviated from the original posts' message.


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## Juvenall (Feb 18, 2012)

Pieces Of E said:


> Juvenall, you brought back memories for me. The TV show 'James At 16' really hooked me on photography. The star had a Canon AE-1 slr too and for a kid growing up in a very small town on a very small family budget, boy was I hooked. Now I have a 7D, but really wish I had an original AE-1 to look at.
> 
> Thanks again for the memories and sorry I slightly deviated from the original posts' message.



I actually just pulled mine out of storage the other day when I came into possession of a small box of expired 200 ISO film. It needs a real solid cleaning, but it should be a blast to see what sort of shots I can get out of it now. If it works out ok, perhaps some old FD lenses will have to get worked into my budget ;D

Here's my baby in it's dusty, "unused in 15+ years" glory - http://500px.com/photo/4994846


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## Chuck Alaimo (Feb 18, 2012)

marekjoz said:


> Chuck Alaimo said:
> 
> 
> > marekjoz said:
> ...



If a 24-70 and 50 mm 1.4's are on the list, then yeah, why spend over $1000 on a lens that won't transfer to FF????? that just puts up a giant road block to going FF.


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## barryjphoto (Feb 18, 2012)

Canon lenses retain value very well. Selling a quality EF-S lens for over 85% is simple to do. The FF path possibility (did the OP even mention FF in their future?) should not deter you from enjoying glass n the present. Now if you had a crapload of Tamron and Siggy DX/DC then that would be a different story.


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## Juvenall (Feb 18, 2012)

barryjphoto said:


> did the OP even mention FF in their future?



Given what I know about shooting full frame, it seems that it's almost inevitable for me to go that route at some point in the future. Be that in a month, or 10 years, I can't say. So I'm not overly concerned by EF vs EF-S, but obviously, higher quality EF glass gets the portability double bonus when I'm making up my mind. 

I'm even highly considering picking up a 5D MkII with my current budget, but I know that won't leave much wiggle room for new glass and sticks me with just my 50mm and the dead sexy 70-200 2.8 IS II. Much less of a "problem" if the market works in my favor and I'm able to sell my EF-S items. Of course, my only thought there is if I'm going FF, why not hold out, save up, and pick up a new MkIII when that drops and squeeze every drop of life out of that.


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## dstppy (Feb 18, 2012)

Chuck Alaimo said:


> marekjoz said:
> 
> 
> > Sell
> ...



Honestly, I see no reason to sell the 15-85mm -- even if he goes FF, it's a good lens to hang on to. The others I agree with selling and also getting the 50 1.4.

Juvenall mentioned the 85mm f1.8; it's a great lens, I had limited use on crop, but love it now that I have the 5D. The 7D was available w/kit lens for something like $1300 recently, which if you sell it, you're at around $1000 (if you can get that deal). If you find another high-quality lens you'd like to go with the 60D isn't exactly a slouch either, and the body is around $850 last I checked.


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## jwong (Feb 18, 2012)

Juvenall said:


> Given what I know about shooting full frame, it seems that it's almost inevitable for me to go that route at some point in the future. Be that in a month, or 10 years, I can't say. So I'm not overly concerned by EF vs EF-S, but obviously, higher quality EF glass gets the portability double bonus when I'm making up my mind.
> 
> I'm even highly considering picking up a 5D MkII with my current budget, but I know that won't leave much wiggle room for new glass and sticks me with just my 50mm and the dead sexy 70-200 2.8 IS II. Much less of a "problem" if the market works in my favor and I'm able to sell my EF-S items. Of course, my only thought there is if I'm going FF, why not hold out, save up, and pick up a new MkIII when that drops and squeeze every drop of life out of that.



You could wait for the MKIII, but that will be at least a 1K price premium over the MKII. How long will it take before the price falls significantly? 1-2 years? Can you or do you want to wait that long? What if they come out with double rebates again near Christmas? If they do, it'd make body/lens combos more attractive, but again that is more money. Are you willing to save more and wait longer? Cameras are on a 3-4 year development cycle. You could get and use a 5DII for at least that long.

If you sell all your ef-s gear, then you could move to FF with a used 5DII and get a new 17-40 while staying within your 2k budget. That would give you a good focal range from 17-200mm. Plus it is easier to save less money to buy glass piece by piece than it is to save 2-3k for a body all at once.

I'm actually in a similar situation as you with my 6+ year old 20D. I have both the ef-s 17-55 f/2.8 and 10-22 f/3.5-4.5, and like you, I have the 70-200 II. When I move full frame, both ef-s lenses will be sold to offset the cost and will be used to pick a ultrawide zoom. Midrange zooms (24-70 or 24-105) are nice, but with a combo of 17-40, 50 and 70-200, your gaps are small and won't be missed much.


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## Juvenall (Feb 18, 2012)

dstppy said:


> If you find another high-quality lens you'd like to go with the 60D isn't exactly a slouch either, and the body is around $850 last I checked.



The 60D is *extremely* tempting since the Canon Loyalty Program would let me snag one for something like $640. That gives me an extra $500 for that 85mm I've had my eye on. I'm only really leaning towards the 7D over that because of the AF, build quality, and weather sealing (with two kids, everything ends up splashed sooner or later lol). The slightly large size of the 7D is a minor perk, but a very nice-to-have since I have sorta long, wide hands. 




jwong said:


> You could wait for the MKIII, but that will be at least a 1K price premium over the MKII. How long will it take before the price falls significantly? 1-2 years? Can you or do you want to wait that long? What if they come out with double rebates again near Christmas? If they do, it'd make body/lens combos more attractive, but again that is more money. Are you willing to save more and wait longer? Cameras are on a 3-4 year development cycle. You could get and use a 5DII for at least that long.



I could totally hold out. I mean, I'm not desperate for new gear. My current setup works great for the 1000+ shots I average every week. My only real complaints have been the picky AF, the ISO performance, and the cramped form factor that over long shooting sessions, sorta hurts my hand (even with a battery grip). 



> Midrange zooms (24-70 or 24-105) are nice, but with a combo of 17-40, 50 and 70-200, your gaps are small and won't be missed much.



I really think getting something really wide and fast is going to be the next bit of glass regardless of body. My 15-85 is great for what it is, but at 3.5 on the wide end, it hasn't been as versital as I expected. So I'm giving a good, hard look at the 28mm f/1.8, especially if I stay on a crop body.


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## jwong (Feb 18, 2012)

Juvenall said:


> The 60D is *extremely* tempting since the Canon Loyalty Program would let me snag one for something like $640. That gives me an extra $500 for that 85mm I've had my eye on. I'm only really leaning towards the 7D over that because of the AF, build quality, and weather sealing (with two kids, everything ends up splashed sooner or later lol). The slightly large size of the 7D is a minor perk, but a very nice-to-have since I have sorta long, wide hands.
> 
> I really think getting something really wide and fast is going to be the next bit of glass regardless of body. My 15-85 is great for what it is, but at 3.5 on the wide end, it hasn't been as versital as I expected. So I'm giving a good, hard look at the 28mm f/1.8, especially if I stay on a crop body.



Another thing that might be a factor is microfocus adjustment (MFA). 7D has it, 60D does not. This would be a bigger factor if you have faster primes. I totally agree with getting a fast prime for indoor use. Even 2.8 is not fast enough, but 1.4 usually is. I borrowed a 50 f/1.4 and found it too soft wide open, but that model has worked well for others. If your 50 f/1.8 is fast enough, then the 28 f/1.8 should work for you. I opted for the 35 f/1.4 and that has become my defacto indoor lens.


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