# Sling Straps: Black Rapid, Sun Sniper



## danski0224 (Jan 30, 2012)

Ok, so what keeps the attachment point from loosening and then the camera falling?

Is the tripod attachment point on the camera body engineered to work this way (will the use of this system cause the threaded insert to be pulled out)?


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 30, 2012)

When used in the usual way (lug threaded into the tripod socket), it's a bolt threaded in and place under reverse tension by the rubber washer in between. At least with the BlackRapid, there's a pivot point above the carabiner that attaches to the lug, so when the camera twists, it's the pivot that rotates, which reduces the rotation force on the attachment lug.

Having said that, it doesn't hurt to check the lug for tightness occasionally.

Personally, I never unscrew the lug - I use Arca-Swiss-type QR plates, and the point of those is to be able to quickly mount the camera to a tripod/monopod. Having to unscrew the FastenR-3 lug from the camera or lens plate and screw it back on wouldn't be very quick, and the repeated detach/attach means more chance of not tightening it properly on occasion. My solution was to connect the FastenR-3 to a small AS-type clamp (Kirk 1") with a bit of Loctite Blue, and I just attach the clamp to camera plate or lens plate as needed - easy to move and remove for tripod/monopod mounting.

BR strap attached to FastenR-3 lug connected to Kirk 1" clamp, shown with a Wimberley P-5 camera plate:


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## danski0224 (Jan 30, 2012)

Interesting arrangement.

Thanks for sharing.

I don't yet have a tripod or the QR plates... so, I fail to see the need for speed when going from tripod to strap. Convenience, sure.

Has pull-out of the tripod screw point in the camera crossed your mind, or is that a non-issue? I would assume that if the lens is big enough to have a tripod mount, then that's where the attachment point should be, not the camera body.


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## Tijn (Jan 30, 2012)

danski0224 said:


> Interesting arrangement.
> 
> Thanks for sharing.
> 
> ...



I just saw a stress test of that attachment point on some Canon camera. Pulling a car with it. It worked.

C-Loop - How strong is the camera tripod mount? We pull a truck to find out.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 30, 2012)

danski0224 said:


> Has pull-out of the tripod screw point in the camera crossed your mind, or is that a non-issue?



It's a non-issue. The tripod mount is integrated into the magnesium alloy chassis of the camera (and/or battery grip). Perhaps with an xxxD body, the mount is not as robust, but I'd still imagine it's plenty sturdy.



danski0224 said:


> I would assume that if the lens is big enough to have a tripod mount, then that's where the attachment point should be, not the camera body.



Yes, because that will result in a much better balance as the camera hangs from the strap.


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## triggermike (Jan 30, 2012)

As Neuro pointed out in his first post, you need to be concerned with the sling lug loosening itself and the camera falling free and not the camera failing at the attachment point. The sling lug could come free if you've detached/reattached hastily without a good tightening or other twisting and turning of the sling. Even Arca plates loosen with use and need the occasional tightening.


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## kennykodak (Jan 30, 2012)

not worthy


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## danski0224 (Jan 30, 2012)

triggermike said:


> As Neuro pointed out in his first post, you need to be concerned with the sling lug loosening itself and the camera falling free and not the camera failing at the attachment point. The sling lug could come free if you've detached/reattached hastily without a good tightening or other twisting and turning of the sling. Even Arca plates loosen with use and need the occasional tightening.



Actually, camera falling is my main concern.

I did not notice any type of fail safe retaining device. Maybe something looped through the traditional neck strap attaching point and the sling strap.


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## bigblue1ca (Jan 30, 2012)

danski0224 said:


> Actually, camera falling is my main concern.
> 
> I did not notice any type of fail safe retaining device. Maybe something looped through the traditional neck strap attaching point and the sling strap.



I saw a video a while back looking the use of the tripod screw mount on a camera base to secure a BR type strap and the strength of that area. In the video they took a camera apart and examined the base plate where the tripod mount is and also the regular strap attachment points on the upper corners. Based on the amount of metal on the base it was pretty clear that it's a much more secure attachment point than the regular attachment hooks. If you google around you might be able to find it, I don't have the link and for the life of me I can't remember where I saw it at the moment.  : :'(


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## triggermike (Jan 30, 2012)

There are various discussions around the web for "safety straps, etc" in case the connector screw breaks or comes loose. I haven't seen any that were very informative. 

Regular checking of the screw-in connector is just good practice and mandatory IMO. As I mentioned earlier, I regularly do this for all my Arca plates as well because they loosen with use, temperature, weight distribution, etc.


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## acoll123 (Jan 30, 2012)

I regularly use a Black Rapid strap attached to the bottom of my 5D2 with a 70-200 2.8 II on the camera - haven't had a problem for the past year or so since I got it but I do check to make sure it is screwed in tight periodically (when I think of it which is probably once a week or so). When I am not using the camera, I usually walk with one hand on the camera/lens just to keep it from swinging around too much.
I do have a small notch starting to wear away on the D-Ring it is maybe a 1/16th of an inch deep (~25% of the thickness of the D-Ring). I will probably check to see if there is any warranty recourse but regardless, I will probably replace the d-ring if it gets much deeper just in case.


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## LuCoOc (Jan 30, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> BR strap attached to FastenR-3 lug connected to Kirk 1" clamp, shown with a Wimberley P-5 camera plate:



+1 for that! I was thinking about such an alternitive.

Personally my r-strap never failed, but I continually check it. From my almost 1 year experience I can say: it is a save solution. However, I once tightend the screw too much and the rubber around my 7D's tripod mount came loose...


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## Tijn (Jan 30, 2012)

Are straps like those comfortably usable if you're also wearing a backpack?


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 30, 2012)

danski0224 said:


> Actually, camera falling is my main concern.
> 
> I did not notice any type of fail safe retaining device. Maybe something looped through the traditional neck strap attaching point and the sling strap.



I've seen some jury-rigged 'fail safe' solutions, but it's really not necessary. Dropping a camera is certainly a concern. But, individual carelessness/accident would be the cause, e.g. setting the camera down on the edge of a counter. 

The connections as designed are robust. If your initial question was concern over the tripod mount breaking or the lug coming unscrewed on it's own, don't worry about that (as I said, checking the lug occasionally is a good idea, just as it's good to check the battery grip connection if you use one, etc.).



Tijn said:


> Are straps like those comfortably usable if you're also wearing a backpack?



Yes. I often wear it with a Lowepro Flipside 400 AW on my shoulders.


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## Tijn (Jan 30, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Tijn said:
> 
> 
> > Are straps like those comfortably usable if you're also wearing a backpack?
> ...


Do you wear the band under the backpack and its shoulderbands? And does that leave you enough slack to comfortably be able to pull your camera away from your body? (I imagine the shoulderbands of the backpack somewhat reducing the slack of the sling strap.)


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 30, 2012)

I put the backpack on first, then the BR strap/camera over that. The camera hangs at my hip, the lens extended behind me under the bottom of the pack.


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## Tijn (Jan 30, 2012)

When wearing the strap *over* the backpack, I would expect it to kind of bulge over the backpack (as it comes from aside the neck on one end, and then goes to the hip on the other side- over the back, where your backpack would be). That doesn't seem quite stable as the strap is not tight against your body on the back side.

Do you wear it any differently?


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## LuCoOc (Jan 30, 2012)

Tijn said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Tijn said:
> ...



I put on the sling first and then the backpack. The most comfortable way to carry it is to plug the chest and waist belt unter the strap afterwards. Make sure to remove all batteries and or memory cards from the small pocket on the strap


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## Drizzt321 (Jan 30, 2012)

LuCoOc said:


> Tijn said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



That's the way I normally wear it with a pack. Worked out awesome at Burning Man. I'd have a small pack with lots of water, snacks, a few minimal playa survival items, and then had my minimal camera gear actually in the strap of my BlackRapid. Extra battery, extra memory card, cards giving the URL I was going to post the pics to, and a micro-fiber cloth in a small baggie for when I was somewhere sheltered if I needed to use it on my lens. Worked pretty amazing!


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 30, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> I put the backpack on first, then the BR strap/camera over that. The camera hangs at my hip, the lens extended behind me under the bottom of the pack.



Strike that, reverse it. Bad description, sorry. I wear it as LuCoOc suggests, back of BR strap against my back, under the backpack, but with the hip belt and sternum strap buckled under the BR strap.


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## Ryusui (Jan 30, 2012)

I use a Lowepro Fastpack 350 and the Black Rapid RS-7. I've had no problems with using the RS-7 over the backpack straps. It fits comfortably and glides smoothly.


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## ThorntonCohen (Jan 30, 2012)

I am on my third R-Strap right now and have the current edition. The whole product design has evolved nicely over the last four years. I would sugget that the earlier versions were more prone to loosening though the current rubber gasket-reverse friction method works very well. I am surprised to hear many people seem to leave it attached to their camera over very long periods of time. I have mine on and off all the time and i think this habit can contribute to keeping it tight and checking it often.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jan 31, 2012)

I use my black rapid strap and love it. I've never had the lug loosen, but I do check it occasionally if I'm walking around for a long period of time.

The neck straps give me a sore neck in just a few minutes.

I do not go back and forth from strap to tripod mount very often, or I'd get a clamp that attaches to a QR plate.

I also do not carry a really large lens on it, my 100-400mm L being the largest. I could not imagine someone carrying a 300mm f/2.8 with it, for example, but there are probably a few that do.


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## Crapking (Jan 31, 2012)

Any users of the double-strap style ? Wondering how useful, as I just added a second body to my arsenal and have been fairly happy with the single RS-5, but a little annoyed that the phone pocket is too small for an iPhone in a case. 
With the double - strap, how does it feel bringing the camera up, c/w with the single (where the strap feels stable ACROSS the chest, but with double, it is coming up more from the side) -- too much swing ??


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 31, 2012)

Briansquibb might chime in - he uses a double strap with a 70-200/2.8 on one body and a 400/2.8 on the other.


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## Jamesy (Jan 31, 2012)

I attach my BR strap to my RRS L-Bracket with a heavy duty Ty-Rap that has a metal gripper inside it - super strong. I did however have the BR ConnectR-2 fail and they sent me a new one within days - excellent customer service!


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## Michael_pfh (Jan 31, 2012)

Does anybody here have experience with the Black Rapid RS-Sport strap? What makes it better than the "normal" models?

Does the BRAD (BlackRapid Arm Defense) MOD also work with it?


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## wickidwombat (Jan 31, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> I use my black rapid strap and love it. I've never had the lug loosen, but I do check it occasionally if I'm walking around for a long period of time.
> 
> The neck straps give me a sore neck in just a few minutes.
> 
> ...



I hung a 28-300 off a 1D on a rapid strap its fine even when travelling and sent quite a bit of time with it in this setup


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## ferdi (Jan 31, 2012)

Crapking said:


> Any users of the double-strap style ? Wondering how useful, as I just added a second body to my arsenal and have been fairly happy with the single RS-5, but a little annoyed that the phone pocket is too small for an iPhone in a case.
> With the double - strap, how does it feel bringing the camera up, c/w with the single (where the strap feels stable ACROSS the chest, but with double, it is coming up more from the side) -- too much swing ??



It does swing more when walking, so make sure to use the front and back straps to stabilize them somewhat.
Also you have watch your balance when switching cameras, especially with heavy combos like 1D + tele prime.
The CoupleR that came with my double strap doesn't fit (I still have to contact them about it), but just using the front strap works fine for me and I am usually stationary anyway.


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## MazV-L (Jan 31, 2012)

The Black Rapid Strap's brilliant  I've had mine for about a year and use it alot, never had it fail but I usually keep my right hand loosely holding the cameragrip, that way I'm ready to take a shot in a hurry too. I frequently check the attachment though, because prior to buying the Black Rapid strap I had a "strapbuddy" (which attaches your regular camera-strap to the tripod mount, so the camera hangs at your side in a similar manner) it failed first time  Fortunately I caught the camera before it hit the ground!


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## briansquibb (Jan 31, 2012)

Crapking said:


> Any users of the double-strap style ? Wondering how useful, as I just added a second body to my arsenal and have been fairly happy with the single RS-5, but a little annoyed that the phone pocket is too small for an iPhone in a case.
> With the double - strap, how does it feel bringing the camera up, c/w with the single (where the strap feels stable ACROSS the chest, but with double, it is coming up more from the side) -- too much swing ??



I use a double strap.

1d4 + 400 f/2.8
1Ds3 + 70-200 f/2.8 II on the other


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## Ryusui (Jan 31, 2012)

It looks like your 1Ds III has the BR attached to the camera instead of the lens. Do you feel secure with it like that? I have mine on the lens...I tend to get nervous with the lens hanging off the camera instead of the other way around. With almost twice the weight, I fear the lens might put too much strain on the mount.


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## pwp (Feb 1, 2012)

Just a little heads up on the security of any of these systems. 

I've been using this system from Spiderholster http://www.spiderholster.com/ and been very happy with it, though I may get BR as well, it looks a lot simpler. They may work well in conjunction with each other when using more than two bodies. The Spider Pro plate screws into the tripod thread on the camera body or lens collar like all the strap systems.

It's a natural instinct to tighten these up very firmly. I was stunned how easy it was to dislodge the thread on a 5D grip. The small metal insert actually broke away from the body. And I'm definitely not Mr Muscles. It was a $110 fix. Could be that these threads were never intended for the stresses that a BR or similar system will impose.

Just thought you'd like to know.

Paul Wright


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## danski0224 (Feb 1, 2012)

pwp said:


> Just a little heads up on the security of any of these systems.
> 
> It's a natural instinct to tighten these up very firmly. I was stunned how easy it was to dislodge the thread on a 5D grip. The small metal insert actually broke away from the body. And I'm definitely not Mr Muscles. It was a $110 fix. Could be that these threads were never intended for the stresses that a BR or similar system will impose.



Not clear. Did the grip get damaged, or the body?


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 1, 2012)

Ryusui said:


> It looks like your 1Ds III has the BR attached to the camera instead of the lens. Do you feel secure with it like that? I have mine on the lens...I tend to get nervous with the lens hanging off the camera instead of the other way around. With almost twice the weight, I fear the lens might put too much strain on the mount.



I would not worry about the mount, it's quite strong. Canon doesn't seem concerned about the stress on the mount from lenses like the 70-200/2.8 pictured there. On very heavy lenses like the supertele primes, Canon puts lugs for a carry strap right on the lens - I infer that for those lenses, Canon's engineers feel the weight of the lens should not be fully supported by the mount.


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## Ryusui (Feb 1, 2012)

pwp said:


> Just a little heads up on the security of any of these systems.
> 
> It's a natural instinct to tighten these up very firmly. I was stunned how easy it was to dislodge the thread on a 5D grip. The small metal insert actually broke away from the body. And I'm definitely not Mr Muscles. It was a $110 fix. Could be that these threads were never intended for the stresses that a BR or similar system will impose.


Ooh...good point. I knew the bodies had the tripod thread integrated into the chasis...but I didn't think that the grip would be any different.



neuroanatomist said:


> I would not worry about the mount, it's quite strong. Canon doesn't seem concerned about the stress on the mount from lenses like the 70-200/2.8 pictured there. On very heavy lenses like the supertele primes, Canon puts lugs for a carry strap right on the lens - I infer that for those lenses, Canon's engineers feel the weight of the lens should not be fully supported by the mount.


Sounds reasonable to me. I just figured that if a lens has a tripod collar, aside from balancing, it also indicates that the lens is heavy enough to warrant its use to reduce strain on the mount. I guess if this were the case, Canon probably would say so in the user manuals. Thanks for the input on this.


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## pwp (Feb 1, 2012)

danski0224 said:


> pwp said:
> 
> 
> > Just a little heads up on the security of any of these systems.
> ...



Sorry for not making this clear...it was the thread on the base of the grip. 

Paul Wright


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## Jamesy (Feb 1, 2012)

I did find that the FastenR-3 can tend to unscrew from a camera body (or presumably a grip too) while walking around which has prompted me to ensure it is on snugly. I tend to check it on a regular basis while out and about. I also check that the lock portion of the ConnectR-2 is properly in place to avoid it opening up by accident.


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 1, 2012)

pwp said:


> It's a natural instinct to tighten these up very firmly. I was *stunned how easy it was to dislodge the thread on a 5D grip*. The small metal insert actually broke away from the body. And I'm definitely not Mr Muscles. It was a $110 fix. Could be that these threads were never intended for the stresses that a BR or similar system will impose.



I'd phrase it differently - what I think you were stunned by is the amount of force that a screw mechanism can generate. A basic review of physics - the force generated by turning a screw is much greater than direct pressure. A screw converts a longer rotational motion into a short linear motion, effectively magnifying the force. That's especially true when you're using a wrench/allen key as you'd use with the SpiderPro system. Consider the _apparently_ little force you'd need to screw a large lag bolt into a wooden beam with a socket wrench vs. driving a spike into that beam with a hammer. 

I think the tripod socket is designed to withstand the stress of the weight of the camera/lens, including the additional centripetal force from that weight swinging at the bottom of a strap. I've logged many hours of swinging around a camera + lens combo weighing over 5.25 lbs/2.4 kg (gripped 5DII with 85L II) supported by the tripod socket. 

Now...how about screwing in that 1/4"-20 bolt? I'm not Mr. Muscles either, but let's say I pull with 20 pounds of force (try it on a scale, it's not going to be nearly as hard as you can pull). Assuming a 3" allen key, that's on the order of 37 lb-in of torque, which translates to a clamp force of 740 lbs. About half of that force is lost to friction during the tightening, so let's say when screwing in the bolt, you're applying the equivalent of about _370 lbs/168 kg _of weight on the threads. So, while you might be stunned by _that_ number, the idea that that amount of weight might damage something on your camera is probably not too surprising.

The short version: *don't overtighten a bolt*!


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## MazV-L (Feb 1, 2012)

pwp said:


> Just a little heads up on the security of any of these systems.
> 
> I've been using this system from Spiderholster http://www.spiderholster.com/ and been very happy with it, though I may get BR as well, it looks a lot simpler. They may work well in conjunction with each other when using more than two bodies. The Spider Pro plate screws into the tripod thread on the camera body or lens collar like all the strap systems.
> 
> ...


I found a similar problem with the spider holster too, it's perfectly fine with a small dslr like my 350D but works loose abit when attached to my 5D, so needs to be regularly checked. I actually like to wear the holster and the BR strap together when I'm carrying 2 cameras with the holster on my left hip, but will only use the holster for my 350D and ungripped 50D w/ lightweight lens attached, much better than carrying a camerabag!


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## bycostello (Feb 1, 2012)

the tip they offer is to wet the rubber bit then screw on for a super tight attachment... i often hook on to manfrotto tripod mounting plate too...


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 1, 2012)

bycostello said:


> i often hook on to manfrotto tripod mounting plate too...



_Cringe_ - assuming you mean the little D-ring thumbscrew used to tighten the plate, bad idea. I'd suggest reading this. Then, get yourself a FastenR-T1 instead.


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## Jamesy (Feb 1, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> bycostello said:
> 
> 
> > i often hook on to manfrotto tripod mounting plate too...
> ...



+1

Rumour has it, BR are developing an Arca-swiss plate too - I think they would sell a few of those


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## Jim K (Feb 1, 2012)

I use an RS-7 most of the time with my 100-400 and 7D. Attach the strap to the lens foot and the setup hangs horizontally by my right hip. Very comfortable.

I find it strange that nobody has mentioned that with a BR strap the camera and lens do not hit the tripod like they do when on a neck strap. I tripod mount my 500 w/ or w/o a 1.4x and focus on a nest while using the 100-400 for BIF like the mate arriving in the area of the nest.

Thinking about a DR-1 for rookery photography.


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## waving_odd (Feb 3, 2012)

Anyone using the BlackRapid straps found that the ConnectR-2 scratches the base or the edge of the base of the camera? When the RS-1 first came out, I tried that and its older design of connector did scratch the edge of the base of my 5D2 (ungripped) at around the power switch area.

Not a big deal, but I gave up using it since then. How about this current ConnectR-2 ? Will any part of its metal body be able to touch the base of the camera? Mind to share a picture of how it looks when it touches? Thanks in advance. 





neuroanatomist said:


> Then, get yourself a FastenR-T1 instead.



@neuro: do you know if it's possible to use the FastenR-T1 _without_ putting the Manfrotto RC2 plate? Basically I don't always want my Manfrotto RC2 plate on my camera. But I don't like the original _bulging_ FastenR-3 for storage reason. I do like FastenR-T1 since its D-ring can be _flattened_.





MazV-L said:


> I actually like to wear the holster and the BR strap together when I'm carrying 2 cameras with the holster on my left hip, but will only use the holster for my 350D and ungripped 50D w/ lightweight lens attached, much better than carrying a camerabag!



I do the same, except I am not using BlackRapid strap anymore (due to possible scratches mentioned above). I am using the SpiderPro on my left hip and Crumpler "Industry Disgrace" strap (camera resting on my right hip). The strap is as well-padded, wide (neck area), long (adjustable and longer than enough to wear across chest) as BlackRapid. They have a newer and even wider model called "Convenient Disgrace" that is as wide as the length of your neck!!!


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## neuroanatomist (Feb 3, 2012)

waving_odd said:


> @neuro: do you know if it's possible to use the FastenR-T1 _without_ putting the Manfrotto RC2 plate? Basically I don't always want my Manfrotto RC2 plate on my camera. But I don't like the original _bulging_ FastenR-3 for storage reason. I do like FastenR-T1 since its D-ring can be _flattened_.!



I didn't try it, but I would think it would be possible to use the rubber washer from a Fasten-R3 on the FastenR-T1 and tighten it sufficiently like that.

Not sure if you can find them anywhere (I've probably got a couple of them in a drawer), but the older FastenR-2 folded flat:


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## Jamesy (Feb 3, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> waving_odd said:
> 
> 
> > @neuro: do you know if it's possible to use the FastenR-T1 _without_ putting the Manfrotto RC2 plate? Basically I don't always want my Manfrotto RC2 plate on my camera. But I don't like the original _bulging_ FastenR-3 for storage reason. I do like FastenR-T1 since its D-ring can be _flattened_.!
> ...


You could always conatc BR directly, they are very responsive and may send you some washers - they are good like that!


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## Wrathwilde (Feb 3, 2012)

pwp said:


> I've been using this system from Spiderholster http://www.spiderholster.com/ and been very happy with it.
> Paul Wright



Thank you for posting this, I hate having straps attached to my camera when shooting. I had been looking for a holster bag that could accommodate a full size DSLR with a 24-70 2.8L, and hadn't really found anything I liked. I was about to go the BR route for lack of another quick access option. This looks much more convenient and suitable for me.

How does it feel while walking/jogging with it. (Obviously jogging short distances to get out in front of a subject)

On a related note - I showed my girlfriend this system, just because I thought it was a cool idea... so she's getting me one for Valentines 8)


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## briansquibb (Feb 3, 2012)

I have an indoor shoot all next week and I am going to be wearing the double strap and a RS4. So that will be a 1D4 +24-105, 1Ds3 with 17-40 and the 5DII with 70-200 II

Will also have two flash on stands with umberllas to move around - quite a physical week ;D ;D ;D


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## waving_odd (Feb 4, 2012)

Wrathwilde said:


> pwp said:
> 
> 
> > I've been using this system from Spiderholster http://www.spiderholster.com/ and been very happy with it.
> ...



Yup, this SpiderPro holster looks the best among the other belt / holster systems like Cotton Carrier or ThinkTank Holster Bag.

The SpiderPro holster allows the inserted pin a small degree of swing back and forth. Maybe 10 degrees or so. When walking/jogging forward, I found this flexibility balances out nicely the body's natural movement. Due to the special design that the pin is offset from the center of the plate, the up-side-down camera is aligned closely to your hip. And since the weight is loaded to your hip, even the best neck/shoulder straps can't compare to the comfort of a holster system. Also I find its belt comfortable and stylish (more stylish than ThinkTank, etc).

The only drawback is that you need a bit of time to make sure your pin is inserting into the holster before letting go of the camera. This can be risky (dropping camera onto the ground or missing critical shots) during camera switch in a time critical moment (e.g. wedding).


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## waving_odd (Feb 4, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Not sure if you can find them anywhere (I've probably got a couple of them in a drawer), but the older FastenR-2 folded flat:





Jamesy said:


> You could always conatc BR directly, they are very responsive and may send you some washers - they are good like that!



Thanks guys!


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## Crapking (Feb 7, 2012)

Just finished a 2 day volleyball shoot with the 1d IV and 7d on a double strap - using it for the first time and LOVED IT. What I also tried at times was attaching the left strap to the top of my monopod. thus allowing me SOME freedom to relax the weight of the monopod/7d/70-300 (or 200 or 135) while switching/shooting with the second body one-handed. Not necessary (obviously) if NOT using a monopod, but I found the 135 and 200 primes really excelled with one while on the 7D, and the 1dIV with the 24-70 hanging off to the side gave me nice coverage. But I felt simply handholding the 200 or 135 primes gave me sl soft shots, even at 1/800 or 1/1000 but was vastly improved with the monopod. A little awkward at times but better than leaning the monopod on the wall / floor, thus I was able to go back and forth between bodies/lenses and capture much more action.


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## wickidwombat (Feb 8, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> waving_odd said:
> 
> 
> > @neuro: do you know if it's possible to use the FastenR-T1 _without_ putting the Manfrotto RC2 plate? Basically I don't always want my Manfrotto RC2 plate on my camera. But I don't like the original _bulging_ FastenR-3 for storage reason. I do like FastenR-T1 since its D-ring can be _flattened_.!
> ...


 you can buy thinner rubber washers from a hardware (about 1mm thick) and use that to help it grip


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## wickidwombat (Feb 8, 2012)

Wrathwilde said:


> pwp said:
> 
> 
> > I've been using this system from Spiderholster http://www.spiderholster.com/ and been very happy with it.
> ...


 i've got these
http://peakdesignltd.com/

I have modiffied them and my really right stuff L brackets with black rapid TR-1 loops so that my L brackets stay attached to the cameras permanently and the L brackets can be locked into the captures which i have connected to a thinktank belt this stops the camera swinging around on the rapidstraps and secures it to the belt. it works pretty well


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## David KM (Mar 14, 2012)

*Black Rapid Straps...*

I just want to caution anyone using a black rapid strap. I own a few and use them with a 5DmkII and 7D both griped. Last week with my 5DmkII and a 50L attached, the whole rig took a dump to the ground ( with minor damage fortunately). It’s really scary to hear your camera bouncing around on pavement!!! BR is not quite as strong as you'd think. *The metal carabineer attached to the strap came apart in two pieces at the swivel point.* Apparently with heavy rigs the pin can work open the hole it is in... it widens it, and eventually opens enough to come free. It is made of malleable metal. Absolutely ridiculous that this is not made of SS or something more reliable considering you could be hanging upwards of 5-8k of Canon off it. If you were going to be carrying a 1D anything... YIKES!!!! I did trust this set up for years... now not too sure anymore. After further research, I am not the only one to have this happen. I have made a kludge that I can rely on because I love carrying my camera off my shoulder not my neck (basically a safety ring ensuring even if the carabineer works free again it will hold together).

http://www.blackrapid.com/product/hardware/connectr/

This unit, not at the point where this attaches to the FastenR-T1 TRIPOD or R3 (camera side).


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## Michael_pfh (Mar 14, 2012)

*Re: Black Rapid Straps...*

Must have been bad luck, hope your equipment is ok. My RS7 has always worked fine so far.


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## David KM (Mar 14, 2012)

*Re: Black Rapid Straps...*

A search of BR problems and I found quite a few similiar complaints. I love my strap but have now had to modify them to provide an additional amount of security. Basically placing a stainless steel ring on the swivel unit ensuring the stay together in the event of failure. Better safe than sorry.


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## Crapking (Mar 14, 2012)

*Re: Black Rapid Straps...*

http://www.blackrapid.com/product/hardware/fr-t1/


too bad you missed a previous thread where we discussed just this.....



This adapter (thanks Neuro) has now been added to all my adapters.


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## agierke (Mar 14, 2012)

*Re: Black Rapid Straps...*

i havent had an issue with my black rapid strap but i am very vigilant about checking that both screw mechanisms are tight at all times. over the course of a wedding i probably check it 15 or so times.

i do this because i was on a shoot with an associate and her BR strap had the locking mechanism unscrew itself and her D3 w/ 24-70 jumped off the clip, crashing down onto the pavement. shattered the lens unfortunately. both screw mechanisms seem to work themselves open over the course of time while they are hanging on your side.


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## Dylan777 (Mar 14, 2012)

*Re: Black Rapid Straps...*


Hi David,
Sorry to hear that....I would hate to see that happen to my gear

Wonder.....did you try to contact the manufacture? Let see what they can do in term of failure equipment??? 5D II and 50L f1.2 are not cheap


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## David KM (Mar 14, 2012)

*Re: Black Rapid Straps...*

I did. This is how I found out it has happened to quite a few. They replaced it free of charge. They recommend replacing this part every year. I just wish it were made of SS or titanium... would not be a problem then.


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## David KM (Mar 14, 2012)

*Re: Black Rapid Straps...*



Crapking said:


> http://www.blackrapid.com/product/hardware/fr-t1/
> 
> 
> too bad you missed a previous thread where we discussed just this.....
> ...



That link is not for the pieces I am talking about. The link you provide is for a modifying a Manfrotto RC2 Quick Release Plate. It is called a FastenR-T1. As I use a Gitzo w/ Acratech ball head with acra swiss mount... I use a R3. 

Regardless of FastenR-T1 or R3, this is not the where the separation occurred. The unit that attaches to these pieces... a two piece swivel unit on the strap (*carabineer with metal pin and metal loop to the strap*). This unit will and do eventually separate. It was suggested by the manufacture to replace this piece periodically to avoid this failure. Ridiculous in my mind, if it were SS or titanium this would not be necessary.

This is the piece I am talking about. 

http://www.blackrapid.com/product/hardware/connectr/


Just a head up for any people using this. Don’t believe me but if the same happens to you… I told ya so!


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## bvukich (Mar 14, 2012)

*Re: Black Rapid Straps...*

I've had the RS-Sport for about three years, and the DR-1 for about a year... I'm going to check them both as soon as I get home.


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## Jamesy (Mar 14, 2012)

*Re: Black Rapid Straps...*

There was along thread on straps here: http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,3672.0.html

In the same thread I pointed out that BR sent me a free replacement of the ConnectR-2 device as one of the rivets had work itself free.
http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php/topic,3672.msg77648.html#msg77648


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## ereka (Mar 14, 2012)

*Re: Black Rapid Straps...*

From everything that has been said here, it seems to me that there are inherent flaws in the design and/or construction of these products. I was tempted, but now I'm minded to stay well clear! How about the 'sun sniper" range? Any better?


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## D_Rochat (Mar 14, 2012)

*Re: Black Rapid Straps...*

Thanks for sharing this and It's unfortunate that this happened to you. For the amount that we pay for our BR straps, you'd expect that stuff like this wouldn't happen. I'll be checking mine more often and hopefully BR sorts their sh*t out.


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## David KM (Mar 14, 2012)

*Re: Black Rapid Straps...*

Thanks for the link but didn't see this as the same problem. Most are talking about the pioint where the connector attaches to the camera. 

Not the same failure. 

Like I've said... Just a heads up. Thousands of dollars hanging off my strap and I am as gulity as any for trusting that it's strong enough for the job. For 5-8k dollars of gear I would easily pay 50 bucks for titanium security and I think BR should redesign. 

When I spoke with Customer service... they were more than happy to send a replacement. A at most 5 dollar piece. My 5DmkII and 50L would have been SOL!!!


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## Jamesy (Mar 14, 2012)

*Re: Black Rapid Straps...*

I just re-read your initial post, now I get where you experienced the failure. I mocked up a picture of the issue in case it helps someone else. Your BR failed at the blue circle whereas mine failed at the red one.


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## strykapose (Mar 14, 2012)

*Re: Black Rapid Straps...*

To David KM,
Thank you very much for posting the problem with the BR strap.
I have 3 RS7's and had to take a closer look after seeing this post.
I noticed that the knob and hole (blue circle Thanks to Jamesy)
is extensively worn out on my oldest and most used RS7 strap.
In given time, it will wear to the point it will be able to pass through. 
Im not a pro shooter and average using that strap 1x a week for long walks or biking. 
Comparing it to the newer BR7's I own, looks as if 50% of the nub has already worn away and the 
strap is only about 1 1/2 years old.
Photography is my hobby and I will no longer trust this strap to support my expensive gear.
Thanks once again to David KM and everyone else who posted.


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## David KM (Mar 14, 2012)

Thanks Jamesy... should have posted the image I had. This is exactly where the seperation occured (the blue circle).


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## danski0224 (Mar 14, 2012)

*Re: Black Rapid Straps...*



ereka said:


> From everything that has been said here, it seems to me that there are inherent flaws in the design and/or construction of these products. I was tempted, but now I'm minded to stay well clear! How about the 'sun sniper" range? Any better?



I wound up buying a Sun Sniper strap.

Their swivel hardware is 100x better than the Black Rapid stuff that has been pictured in this thread. 

The Black Rapid hardware looks a lot like the low end stuff you can get at a hardware store.

The Sun Sniper swivel piece is stainless steel and made in Germany.

http://www.sun-sniper.com/en/sniper-strap-the-pro-steel-bear.html


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## Jamesy (Mar 14, 2012)

*Re: Black Rapid Straps...*



danski0224 said:


> ereka said:
> 
> 
> > From everything that has been said here, it seems to me that there are inherent flaws in the design and/or construction of these products. I was tempted, but now I'm minded to stay well clear! How about the 'sun sniper" range? Any better?
> ...


This looks very interesting however there does not appear to be a quick way to detach the strap from the camera body - you would need to unscrew it, correct?


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## danski0224 (Mar 14, 2012)

*Re: Black Rapid Straps...*



Jamesy said:


> This looks very interesting however there does not appear to be a quick way to detach the strap from the camera body - you would need to unscrew it, correct?



Yes, it has to be unscrewed.

I do not have the need to quickly detach the strap. Out of curiosity, why would someone need to do this? By design, neither the Black Rapid or Sun Sniper straps are in the way during use.

Nor did I like the construction of the Black Rapid hardware.


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## David KM (Mar 14, 2012)

*Re: Black Rapid Straps...*



danski0224 said:


> Jamesy said:
> 
> 
> > This looks very interesting however there does not appear to be a quick way to detach the strap from the camera body - you would need to unscrew it, correct?
> ...




Multiple cameras... a move to the tripod... events shooting... 

I shoot weddings and have more than one body so having to unscrew is a major hassel. 

I agree the Sunsniper is built better but odd there is no quick release. Plus, it has been reported that unit goes wonky also , due to lint/sand/etc getting caught up in the bearing assembly... so it ain't perfect either. I do like there straps better though.


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## D_Rochat (Mar 14, 2012)

*Re: Black Rapid Straps...*



Jamesy said:


> I just re-read your initial post, now I get where you experienced the failure. I mocked up a picture of the issue in case it helps someone else. Your BR failed at the blue circle whereas mine failed at the red one.



What you've shown concerns me, but I don't think I'm going to abandon my strap and drop more money on a new one. I think I'm going to add a zip tie through the carabiner and slide for more assurance. I'll lose the ability to swivel, but it's not something I need anyways. 

*EDIT* Better idea. You can get thin still braided line from any hardware store and have a loop crimped around the carabiner and slide as a fail safe. It will still allow for some swivel movement.


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## epiem (Mar 14, 2012)

danski0224 said:


> Ok, so what keeps the attachment point from loosening and then the camera falling?
> 
> Is the tripod attachment point on the camera body engineered to work this way (will the use of this system cause the threaded insert to be pulled out)?



I have BlackRapid 

A rubber grommet seals it. Plus the length of the threads, you would KNOW if it was becoming loose.

I am in the habit of checking it every once in a while. It's like second nature now.

I still have NEVER found it to be loose...EVER

I have some complaints about these systems like the plating they use and the little noises that the "Stock" loops make.
I ended up getting the T1 fasteners and they work better, but they wont fit Manfrotto and other tripod quick release plates and the "nickel" plating will peel off...and when it does, it will give you a NASTY cut.

I still wouldn't head to a wedding or event without one. They beat the hell out of the around the neck ones....and the dual camera system is a dream~


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## danski0224 (Mar 14, 2012)

*Re: Black Rapid Straps...*



David KM said:


> Multiple cameras... a move to the tripod... events shooting...
> 
> I shoot weddings and have more than one body so having to unscrew is a major hassel.
> 
> I agree the Sunsniper is built better but odd there is no quick release. Plus, it has been reported that unit goes wonky also , due to lint/sand/etc getting caught up in the bearing assembly... so it ain't perfect either. I do like there straps better though.



Interesting.

So, do you use the Black Rapid FastenR-T1 that has been mentioned elsewhere in this thread? That seems to be the only solution for these sling straps + tripod + quick release.

I did a search for carabiners similar to the Black Rapid offering, and unless you are shopping for human rated hardware (climbing or safety) the construction seems to be similar to what BR has, although I could not locate an exact match.

Maybe that is why Sun Sniper does not have a quick release. The proper hardware would be cost prohibitive and/or bulky.

I did not consider problems with sand and the Sun Sniper. I suppose everything has its tradeoffs.

But, I am fairly confident that the Sun Sniper swivel assembly will not come apart even if it is full of grit. It has a pretty good sized external snap ring holding it together. The D ring is also stout and stainless steel.


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## danski0224 (Mar 14, 2012)

*Re: Black Rapid Straps...*



D_Rochat said:


> *EDIT* Better idea. You can get thin still braided line from any hardware store and have a loop crimped around the carabiner and slide as a fail safe. It will still allow for some swivel movement.



These are nice: http://www.redoxx.com/Cool-Luggage-Accessories/Cable-Lock/91100/170/Product


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## D_Rochat (Mar 15, 2012)

*Re: Black Rapid Straps...*



danski0224 said:


> D_Rochat said:
> 
> 
> > *EDIT* Better idea. You can get thin still braided line from any hardware store and have a loop crimped around the carabiner and slide as a fail safe. It will still allow for some swivel movement.
> ...



That works too. This is what I came up with for $1 at a hardware store. This was just a quicky and I'm going to clean up the wire to avoid chaffing. This will at least catch the camera if the carabiner fails.







I did this a while ago because I didn't like the idea of having a buckle on the back. Maybe I'm paranoid....


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## David KM (Mar 15, 2012)

You could put some heat shrink tubing around that wire and make it black, silent and chaff proof. Just an idea.

After a few different options, I've ended up using a heavy duty split ring (like for keys). I found a small heavy duty one that holds my heaviest lens camera combo securely. So I know if all else fails, the ring will prevent this from ever happening again. Any of the pictures above accomplish the same thing. The split ring is smaller and looks a bit more polished IMHO. 

Cheers, hope this helps keep anyone’s camera off the ground !!!


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## wickidwombat (Mar 15, 2012)

hahaha I just tried to order 10 of those redoxx things 

they want $45 to ship to australia 
for 10 tiny $1 items

Hahahahahaha
well thats a sale they won't get


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## danski0224 (Mar 15, 2012)

They want $10 to ship to me. Don't know what it costs to ship to Australia from here.

Looks like it is about $12.00 USD to ship a 1lb package from USA to AUS via USPS.


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## D_Rochat (Mar 15, 2012)

David KM said:


> You could put some heat shrink tubing around that wire and make it black, silent and chaff proof. Just an idea.



That's a good idea. I'll have to head back to the hardware store later on. As long as it prevents that sickening thud, I'm happy. I'd like to see what other people have done to compensate for BR's lack of engineering. ;D


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## neuroanatomist (Mar 15, 2012)

D_Rochat said:


> David KM said:
> 
> 
> > You could put some heat shrink tubing around that wire and make it black, silent and chaff proof. Just an idea.
> ...



Or some Plasti-Dip (the stuff for tool handles, in the paint section). I used that with the older FastenR-2 lugs (the thinner, fold-down one), which made a very annoying click-click on the carabiner as I walked.


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## D_Rochat (Mar 15, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> D_Rochat said:
> 
> 
> > David KM said:
> ...



Another good idea. I may just go that route as I'll find other uses for plastic dip as well. Thanks.


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## Jamesy (Mar 19, 2012)

*Re: Black Rapid Straps...*



D_Rochat said:


>


Looks like a good idea - a Ty-Rap would work in this application too. The only issue would be it could restrict mobility of the camera but at the same time that could be a good thing to prevent it spinning around.

BTW, a buddy at work just bought an $18 eBay knock-off of the RS-4 and he is going to being it into work to show me. I will report back the build quality to all of you.


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## D_Rochat (Mar 19, 2012)

I thought of using that for the swivel, but the zip ties degrade in the sun after time and become brittle. The current set up allows enough swivel movement. I don't need 360 movement, so it works for me. I'm curious what you have to say about the knock-off as I wouldn't mind having a spare.


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## wickidwombat (Mar 19, 2012)

these are the old type of cheap ebay ones

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/Quick-Rapid-Camera-Sling-Strap-Black-D700-D5000-D3-/300568136829?pt=US_Camera_Straps_Hand_Grips&hash=item45fb41cc7d

I've been using them as well as genuine Black rapid for a couple of years now they work well

but these new better copies just came out and i got a couple

http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/251008021232?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649

and boy the quality is EXACTLY the same as genuine BR

If BR want to set themselves apart and charge what they do they need to change all the fixings to high tensile stainless steel then they can justify the current prices but otherwise they are well and truely over priced


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## D_Rochat (Mar 20, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> If BR want to set themselves apart and charge what they do they need to change all the fixings to high tensile stainless steel then they can justify the current prices but otherwise they are well and truely over priced



As much as I love my BR strap, I agree with that statement 100%. I shouldn't have to mod my strap to prevent potential disasters for the price I paid for it. There is very little metal involve in making a strap and the least they can do for they current price is make it with quality metals.


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## The_Arsonist (Mar 20, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> hahaha I just tried to order 10 of those redoxx things
> 
> they want $45 to ship to australia
> for 10 tiny $1 items
> ...



I use those things instead of split rings for my keys. I got mine from Amazon. They're sold under the name "Manta Ring" or "Lucky Line"

http://www.amazon.com/MantaRing-Cable-Ring-Waterproof-Blue/dp/B004ZSVE4E/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1332223762&sr=8-1


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## Jamesy (Mar 20, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> but these new better copies just came out and i got a couple
> 
> http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/251008021232?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1497.l2649
> 
> and boy the quality is EXACTLY the same as genuine BR



My buddy picked up this one for $14 - I thought it was $18:
http://www.ebay.ca/itm/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=330695204775

Holy crap, it looks and feels identical as the BR RS-4. It is hard to tell if it is as resilient but at $14 verses 69.99 Canadian, it will be hard to justify the real version.


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## wickidwombat (Mar 20, 2012)

Jamesy said:


> wickidwombat said:
> 
> 
> > but these new better copies just came out and i got a couple
> ...


Yep I got one of those and the slightly more expensive one with the flappy mount like the Black rapid TR-1 connector to see how it compares.

As I said you can pretty much replace the strap every year for 5 years and pay the same as 1 black rapid to mitigate any potential metal fatigue failure.

Black rapid need to set themselves apart by changing to high tensile stainless steel mountings then they can justify that price


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## briansquibb (Mar 20, 2012)

wickidwombat said:


> Yep I got one of those and the slightly more expensive one with the flappy mount like the Black rapid TR-1 connector to see how it compares.
> 
> As I said you can pretty much replace the strap every year for 5 years and pay the same as 1 black rapid to mitigate any potential metal fatigue failure.
> 
> Black rapid need to set themselves apart by changing to high tensile stainless steel mountings then they can justify that price



I am thinking of making some myself in my shop. Marine grade stainless would be ideal.


----------

