# Canon Officially Announces the EOS 6D Mark II



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jun 29, 2017)

```
<em>EOS 6D Mark II and EOS Rebel SL2 DSLR Cameras Provide Photographers with Improved Features over Predecessors</em></p>
<p><strong>MELVILLE, N.Y., June 29, 2017 – </strong>In celebration of the innovation behind today’s generation of high-quality digital SLR cameras on National Camera Day, Canon U.S.A. Inc., a leader in digital imaging solutions, is excited to announce the new EOS 6D Mark II and EOS Rebel SL2 DSLR cameras designed for advanced-amateur and entry-level photographers, respectively. The EOS 6D Mark II camera is ideal for budding photographers looking to take their creative DSLR photography skills to the next level by shooting with a Full-frame CMOS sensor DSLR camera to capture beautiful high-quality portraits and striking landscapes, even in low-light situations. The EOS Rebel SL2 is a small, light, and compact camera with high-performance capability that allows users to get creative when capturing their special family moments or travel experiences.</p>
<p><!--more--></p>
<p>“It seems fitting that today, a day set aside to commemorate the invention of a tool that forever changed how we view the world, we introduce two new DSLR cameras to the Canon family,” said Yuichi Ishizuka, president and COO, Canon U.S.A. “In an industry where choices are abundant, providing consumers with the photographic tools that match their developing skill levels as they continue to embrace their passion for photography is a long-standing goal of Canon and stands at the core of our research and development. The new EOS 6D Mark II and EOS Rebel SL2 DSLR cameras are the result of Canon’s dedication to providing a wide range of camera choices for photographers of all skill levels, whether it’s someone taking their first picture or video with a DSLR camera or those looking to make the jump to a Full-Frame sensor camera.”</p>
<p>“After just one day in Yellowstone National Park with the EOS 6D Mark II DSLR Camera, it was clear that the camera is greatly improved over its predecessor,” said acclaimed nature photographer and Canon Explorer of Light Adam Jones. “ Landscape and nature photographers will be very happy. The new and improved autofocus is way ahead of the previous generation and performed extremely well, even in very low-light situations.”</p>
<p><strong>EOS 6D Mark II DSLR Camera</strong></p>
<p>Designed with enthusiast photographers in mind, Canon’s popular and versatile EOS 6D DSLR camera historically served to bridge the gap between Canon’s higher-end APS-C DLSRs and Full-Frame DSLR cameras. The EOS 6D Mark II DSLR camera features several enhancements over its predecessor model, and its benefits include:</p>
<ul>
<li>26.2 Megapixel Full-frame CMOS Sensor</li>
<li>Optical Viewfinder with a 45-point All Cross-type AF System<sup class="green">1</sup></li>
<li>Dual Pixel CMOS AF with Phase-detection & Full HD 60p</li>
<li>DIGIC 7 Image Processor, ISO 100-40000</li>
<li>Vari-angle Touch Screen, 3.0-inch LCD</li>
<li>Built-in Wi-Fi®<sup class="green">2</sup>, NFC<sup class="green">3</sup>, Bluetooth®<sup class="green">4</sup> and GPS technology</li>
<li>High-speed Continuous Shooting at up to 6.5 fps</li>
<li>Dust- & Water-resistant</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>EOS Rebel SL2 DSLR Camera</strong></p>
<p>Stepping up from a smartphone or point-and-shoot camera for photography can be intimidating. With the introduction of the new EOS Rebel SL2, a powerful, small, and lightweight DSLR camera, Canon hopes to alleviate some of those concerns for first-time DSLR users.</p>
<p>This small yet powerful camera features the world’s fastest AF speed<span class="green">*</span> at 0.03 seconds, allowing for quick focusing on subjects in the frame. When designing the new EOS Rebel SL2 camera, Canon took into consideration feedback from entry-level photographers who expressed interest in learning how to go beyond a camera’s program mode. The result was the creation of a convenient new user interface called Feature Assistant. With the EOS Rebel SL2 camera, users will be able to see on the camera’s Vari-angle Touch Screen how switching modes on the mode dial or tweaking camera settings like aperture and exposure compensation can alter the image they are about to capture, thus guiding photographers on their way to capturing more compelling images, such as ones with a shallow depth-of-field or being able to give moving subjects a frozen or flowing look.</p>
<p>The EOS Rebel SL2 DSLR camera features several other enhancements over its predecessor model, the EOS Rebel SL1, including:</p>
<ul>
<li>24.2 Megapixel CMOS (APS-C) Sensor</li>
<li>Dual Pixel CMOS AF</li>
<li>3.0-inch Vari-Angle LCD Touch-Screen</li>
<li>Built-in Wi-Fi®<sup class="green">2</sup>, NFC<sup class="green">3</sup> and Bluetooth®<sup class="green">4</sup> Technology</li>
<li>Full HD 60p & External Microphone Input</li>
<li>DIGIC 7 Image Processor, ISO 100-25600</li>
<li>Optical Viewfinder with a 9-point AF System</li>
<li>Feature Assistant</li>
<li>Small and Lightweight Body</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Pricing and Availability</strong></p>
<p>The EOS 6D Mark II DSLR camera is scheduled to be available in late July 2017 for an estimated retail price of $1,999.00 for body only, $3,099.00 with the Canon EF 24-105mm f/4L IS USM II lens and $2,599.00 with the Canon EF 24-105mm f/3.5-5.6 STM lens**. In addition the EOS Rebel SL2 is scheduled to be available in late July 2017 for a retail price of $549.99 for body only and $699.99 with the Canon EF-S 18-55m f/4-5.6 IS STM lens**. For more information please visit usa.canon.com.</p>
<p><strong>Preorder Now!</strong></p>
<p><strong>Canon EOS 6D Mark II Body</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><strong>USA $1999</strong>: <a href="https://bhpho.to/2tmBfEW">B&H Photo</a> | <a href="http://amzn.to/2sjTrPL">Amazon</a> | <a href="https://mpex.com/canon-eos-6d-mark-ii-dslr-camera-body-only.html?acc=3">Midwest Photo</a> (If ordered before July 16, free 128gb Lexar SD Card)</li>
<li><strong>UK £1999:</strong> <a href="http://www.awin1.com/cread.php?awinaffid=292297&awinmid=6241&p=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.parkcameras.com%2Fp%2F1010062T%2Fdigital-slr-cameras%2Fcanon%2Feos-6d-mark-ii-dslr-camera-body">Park Cameras</a> | <a href="http://www.awin1.com/cread.php?awinaffid=292297&awinmid=2298&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wexphotographic.com%2Fcanon-eos-6d-mark-ii-digital-slr-camera-body-1630560%2F">WEX Photographic</a></li>
<li><strong>Canada $2599:</strong> <a href="http://www.pjtra.com/t/TUJGRU1GTEJGRk5HSklCRkhMRklH?url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.henrys.com%2F98225-CANON-EOS-6D-MK-II-BODY.aspx">Henry’s</a></li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Canon EOS 6D Mark II w/24-105mm f/3.5-5.6 IS STM</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><strong>USA $2599</strong>: <a href="https://bhpho.to/2s3TmM9">B&H Photo</a> | <a href="http://amzn.to/2triKPZ">Amazon</a> | <a href="https://mpex.com/canon-eos-6d-mark-ii-dslr-camera-with-24-105mm-is-stm-lens.html?acc=3">Midwest Photo</a> (If ordered before July 16, free 128gb Lexar SD Card)</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Canon EOS 6D Mark II w/24-105mm f/4L IS II</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><strong>USA $3099</strong>: <a href="https://bhpho.to/2tnn96a">B&H Photo</a> | <a href="http://amzn.to/2u0EWh6">Amazon</a> | <a href="https://mpex.com/canon-eos-6d-mark-ii-dslr-camera-with-24-105mm-f4l-is-ii-usm-lens.html?acc=3">Midwest Photo</a> (If ordered before July 16, free 128gb Lexar SD Card)</li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Canon EOS 6D Mark II Body w/24-70mm f/4L IS</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><strong>UK £2379:</strong> <a href="http://www.awin1.com/cread.php?awinaffid=292297&awinmid=6241&p=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.parkcameras.com%2Fp%2F1010063D%2Fdigital-slr-cameras%2Fcanon%2Feos-6d-mark-ii-dslr-ef-24-70mm-f4l-is-usm-lens-kit">Park Cameras</a> | <a href="http://www.awin1.com/cread.php?awinaffid=292297&awinmid=2298&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wexphotographic.com%2Fcanon-eos-6d-mark-ii-digital-slr-camera-with-24-70mm-f4-l-is-lens-1631339%2F">WEX Photographic</a></li>
</ul>
<p><strong>Canon BG-E21 Battery Grip for EOS 6D Mark II</strong></p>
<ul>
<li><strong>USA $300</strong>: <a href="https://bhpho.to/2s4e6TL">B&H Photo</a> | <a href="http://amzn.to/2u0nzgx">Amazon</a> | <a href="https://mpex.com/canon-bg-e21-battery-grip.html?acc=3">Midwest Photo</a></li>
<li><strong>UK £199:</strong> <a href="http://www.awin1.com/cread.php?awinaffid=292297&awinmid=6241&p=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.parkcameras.com%2Fp%2F1150097F%2Fgrips%2Fcanon%2Fbg-e21-battery-grip">Park Cameras</a> | <a href="http://www.awin1.com/cread.php?awinaffid=292297&awinmid=2298&p=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.wexphotographic.com%2Fcanon-bg-e21-battery-grip-1630561%2F">WEX Photographic</a></li>
</ul>
<span id="pty_trigger"></span>
<div style="font-size:0px;height:0px;line-height:0px;margin:0;padding:0;clear:both"></div>
```


----------



## mahdi_mak2000 (Jun 29, 2017)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wOkiWVv5SrU


----------



## smithcon (Jun 29, 2017)

And a hands-on preview video is up from Kai Wong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0crokqG2uYg


----------



## camerone (Jun 29, 2017)

I'm liking the 6D2 so far... I'm going to see how the reviews are but the AF looks like a huge step up and that screen with DPAF looks really nice. I don't use video on my 6D1 so no 4k isn't really an issue...hmm...


----------



## smithcon (Jun 29, 2017)

It's disappointing to see the AF points clustered so tightly around the center; was hoping for a better spread. 
It is nice to see that 27 AF points support f8, and DPAF looks amazing. 

Is DPAF aperture limited? How does it do in low light? Looks like I will be making liberal use of DPAF if I get one.


----------



## Zv (Jun 29, 2017)

For your info here is a screenshot of the AF spread. Also there are max 27 AF points at f/8 according to the video.


----------



## Alejandro (Jun 29, 2017)

-3 EV on the center.

¿What about the other crosstype AF Points?


----------



## luisbelo (Jun 29, 2017)

Oh man... aren't the AF points to cramped up together?
I'm intended to upgrade from my 80D but this scared me.


----------



## Jopa (Jun 29, 2017)

Barney @ DPR says that's the 80D AF module, so the coverage seems to be quite limited.
Not as limited as Pentax did with the 645Z though (it also got an APS-C PDAF module)


----------



## bereninga (Jun 29, 2017)

smithcon said:


> It's disappointing to see the AF points clustered so tightly around the center; was hoping for a better spread.
> It is nice to see that 27 AF points support f8, and DPAF looks amazing.
> 
> Is DPAF aperture limited? How does it do in low light? Looks like I will be making liberal use of DPAF if I get one.



I agree. The spread of the 45 af points is nearly.... pointless. Lol 

It looks similar to the current 9-point spread. At least they're cross type, all near the center.


----------



## pj1974 (Jun 29, 2017)

Both cameras will prove to be solid performing DSLRs, and will sell favourably.

I have owned Canon DSLRs for over 12 years... staying with crop / APS-C at this stage. I used to own a 100D (SL1) - and liked it, but sold it as I just had too much camera gear... And I have used a friend's 6D. DPAF will really benefit the both the 6D2 and 200D as more user friendly options. 8)

The 6D2 will be used by many enthusiast photographers to capture millions (billions?) of amazing and/or memorable photos and videos. I currently own a 80D, and the new Canon sensor tech and DPAF are great technologies... DPAF's speed, accuracy and usability is like having a mirrorless plus DSLR (optical view finder) in 1.

Well done Canon. You are not ******* - and yes, looking forward to continued innovations and solidly performing cameras. Thanks! 

Paul


----------



## Pr0grammed_Reality (Jun 29, 2017)

Well no 4k had me not getting this camera, then I said at least I won't have to do focus and recompose so much with 45 AF points compared to my 6D, so maybe I will get it. Well those points are all in the center!! This gives me barely any improvement over my 6D in this regard. It looks like they just transplanted the AF from the 80d.


----------



## candyman (Jun 29, 2017)

It is a great step up from the current 6D. I just pre-ordered. Price in the Netherlands: €2129. Less than I thought it would be. A pitty that the sensitivity of the center AF point is still -3EV. But the 6D MKII adds many valauble features for Canons smallest full frame camera


----------



## 4D (Jun 29, 2017)

$A2548 here in Australia at Digidirect, which is actually cheaper than the US.

It should be $A2630 at current exchange:


----------



## mahdi_mak2000 (Jun 29, 2017)

the focus system is not adopted from 80d... it is transplanted infact.. I dont give F about 4k but this kinda let me down. i gonna buy it anyway


----------



## smithcon (Jun 29, 2017)

Panning mode looks interesting but I assume it's mostly smoke and mirrors? Has that been introduced on other Canon bodies? It must be similar to mode 2 IS, but perhaps with more software control? Interesting that only the 24-105 IS L II (with FW 2.0!) supports it, but that does imply that optical IS *might* be involved, which is perhaps a good sign. 

I have never used "scene modes", so I wonder if I have to sacrifice exposure control and and/or raw to use this feature. 

Panning mode Video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Y8s3fVeVeE


----------



## pj1974 (Jun 29, 2017)

bereninga said:


> smithcon said:
> 
> 
> > It's disappointing to see the AF points clustered so tightly around the center; was hoping for a better spread.
> ...



This is one (another) reason I love Canon's APS-C cameras.
_The spread of AF points is much superior to anything FF!_

;D Ok... not seeking the "FF is better" group to flame me... I know the various advantages of FF vs APS-C.
I'm just making an accurate observation.

Paul


----------



## Freddell (Jun 29, 2017)

luisbelo said:


> Oh man... aren't the AF points to cramped up together?
> I'm intended to upgrade from my 80D but this scared me.


Me too, every 6D SPEC looks perfect to me, but the AF spread is a joke. I rather keep 9 points than 45 points not reaching beyond the same area.


----------



## Aglet (Jun 29, 2017)

*Pentax K-1*; *does more* (of what I want), *costs less*, bought it last week.

Hopefully the 6D2 has lower noise like 5d4. Canon still needs to catch up (as much as they can) in the IQ department across the lineup.

PS - and the K-1 is likely the last mirror-slappin' DSLR I'll ever buy.


----------



## curby (Jun 29, 2017)

Ouch, I didn't get the 6D mostly because of the AF situation. Center point low light sensitivity was great, but coverage (both density and spread) were quite limited. 

Well, they solved the density issue ... and called it a day.


----------



## bereninga (Jun 29, 2017)

Also, no focus peaking for LV mode. :'(


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Jun 29, 2017)

I put one on order, but am still considering a 5D MK IV or even a 80D. I will put my 5D MK III for sale and see what I get for it. Sorry, I can't sell it on CR, so don't ask.


----------



## ecka (Jun 29, 2017)

How long until MagicLantern makes it shoot 4k?


----------



## ctrl (Jun 29, 2017)

"27 AF points support f8" This was a pleasant surprise. 

As said, very unhappy with it not having 4K, but who knows, a year from now if/when great deals can be had I might actually change my mind and buy it.


----------



## hbr (Jun 29, 2017)

curby said:


> Ouch, I didn't get the 6D mostly because of the AF situation. Center point low light sensitivity was great, but coverage (both density and spread) were quite limited.
> 
> Well, they solved the density issue ... and called it a day.



Yeah, that AF spread isn't any better than the 11 point AF of the original. One review, (I think it was DPReview) said that they used the same module from the 80D. It may be fine on the 80D, but it is way to small on this camera.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Jun 29, 2017)

Of course wider AF spread would be nice but look at the 1DX2 where they tried hard and it's not much wider. That's because of physical limitations. However, to say that all these cross points and F8 capability is not an improvement and useful is a little dense considering all but the center are non-cross and not great in the 6D.

If you liked the 6D, and I did, then this is a major improvement in many areas and it's most welcome and it'll be a fine camera. Four years with the 6D and I did maybe 1 hour of video. Oh, but if it was 4K I'd do lots - sadly probably not, so why sweat it. Many like me simply don't shoot much video and Canon knows it.

Jack


----------



## hbr (Jun 29, 2017)

Jack Douglas said:


> Of course wider AF spread would be nice but look at the 1DX2 where they tried hard and it's not much wider. That's because of physical limitations. However, to say that all these cross points and F8 capability is not an improvement and useful is a little dense considering all but the center are non-cross and not great in the 6D.
> 
> If you liked the 6D, and I did, then this is a major improvement in many areas and it's most welcome and it'll be a fine camera. Four years with the 6D and I did maybe 1 hour of video. Oh, but if it was 4K I'd do lots - sadly probably not, so why sweat it. Many like me simply don't shoot much video and Canon knows it.
> 
> Jack



I agree with you Jack. I guess I am spoiled by the AF in my 7D II. With it I can put the focus point almost anywhere I want it.

Brian

PS. I did already preorder one though.


----------



## wildwalker (Jun 29, 2017)

Just pre-ordered mind.

Come on end of July 

Alan.


----------



## quattie (Jun 29, 2017)

Will this new Canon 6D Mark II have the Canon EOS iTR AF technology? Would be a waste of the 45 AF points if it doesn't.


----------



## Isaacheus (Jun 29, 2017)

Keen to hear about the iq, dynamic range and most importantly, the high iso. One early review gave the impression that it was behind the 5dmk4 in DR at least, any other info around?


----------



## MintChocs (Jun 29, 2017)

I'm interested in the spread of the AF points. From the current videos, it looks like they are all clumped in the middle. Is anyone able to do an overlay of the original 6D AF grid and the new Mk2? I don't do much sports so tracking isn't important but I do more portraits with f1.4 so ideally need AF points spread out.


----------



## Deepboy (Jun 29, 2017)

MintChocs said:


> I'm interested in the spread of the AF points. From the current videos, it looks like they are all clumped in the middle. Is anyone able to do an overlay of the original 6D AF grid and the new Mk2? I don't do much sports so tracking isn't important but I do more portraits with f1.4 so ideally need AF points spread out.



Same here, i shoot mostly vertical portraits, and 90% of my shots are done with the 135 f2 L at full aperture...with the 6D the laterlal point is bad in normal light, and impossibile to use in backlight (with the light/sun behind the model's head), so i have to use central point and than recompose...but at short focus distance, recomposing often switch the focal plane and if i focussed eyes, thay are no more in focus while i take pictures.

The new 45 AF point are gorgeous, but the spread is very bad, as i have no way to directly focus in the eye in a vertical portrait because there isn't any lateral ficus point, so i still need to use point in the middle and recompose...i was ready to preorder, but as soon as i saw that, i just stopped, now i want to read some review before, how this compact spread works in the field...i also want to see some dynamic range comparison, if this is not WAY better than the 6D/5DmkIII, and nearly on par with mkIV (and because of newer sensor and better image processor i feel Canon shuld have get an even better result than mkIV...), maybe this will really be the time when i sell all the lenses and switch to Nikon after nearly 20 years of Canon... :'(


----------



## super mario (Jun 29, 2017)

DPReview says it has less DR than 5D MKIV. Well that is a deal breaker for me.


----------



## littleB (Jun 29, 2017)

MintChocs said:


> I'm interested in the spread of the AF points. From the current videos, it looks like they are all clumped in the middle. Is anyone able to do an overlay of the original 6D AF grid and the new Mk2? I don't do much sports so tracking isn't important but I do more portraits with f1.4 so ideally need AF points spread out.



Looks like the same or a tiny bit less. 6D viewfinder squares are known to be visually less than underlying sensors.


----------



## Deva (Jun 29, 2017)

4D said:


> $A2548 here in Australia at Digidirect, which is actually cheaper than the US.
> 
> It should be $A2630 at current exchange:



$1,999 in the US - and it's £1,999 in the UK! I appreciate the pound's been going to hell in a handcart for the last 12 months, but it's not at parity with the dollar yet - it's almost $1.30 today. What's Canon got against Britain?


----------



## Sharlin (Jun 29, 2017)

MintChocs said:


> I'm interested in the spread of the AF points. From the current videos, it looks like they are all clumped in the middle. Is anyone able to do an overlay of the original 6D AF grid and the new Mk2? I don't do much sports so tracking isn't important but I do more portraits with f1.4 so ideally need AF points spread out.



Almost all fullframe DSLRs have pretty clumped AF points. 







Deva said:


> $1,999 in the US - and it's £1,999 in the UK! I appreciate the pound's been going to hell in a handcart for the last 12 months, but it's not at parity with the dollar yet - it's almost $1.30 today. What's Canon got against Britain?



As always, US prices don't include sales tax (if any - depends on state). UK has 20% VAT. 







ctrl said:


> "27 AF points support f8" This was a pleasant surprise.



Remember that it's most likely the exact same situation as with the other cameras using the 45-pt system: only the center point is f/8 with "all" lenses, and 27 points are f/8 with exactly two lens/extender combinations.







quattie said:


> Will this new Canon 6D Mark II have the Canon EOS iTR AF technology? Would be a waste of the 45 AF points if it doesn't.



Most likely it has the same "color tracking" feature as the 80D. With the 7560px metering sensor, it can't do full iTR like the cameras with 100000+px sensors.


----------



## -pekr- (Jun 29, 2017)

The situation with the AF points gets even worse, when you shoot horizontally. With the spread they selected, I can barely see any point in choosing a particular one. You will have to use focus and recompose often, if you want to focus someone's face.

You know, for me, it is not all about the money. We can often hear - you want pro? Go for the 5DIV then. But the feature set is not easily switchable. Since the old (my first digital) days of Canon G2, I was wishing for the tilty-flippy to come the DSLRs. Shooting at concerts, I always have to smile, when so called pros shoot blindly above their heads.

But this time, for the first time ever, I started to think to save more, pay more, and get 5DIV instead. Surely will wait for the reviews of the new 6D2 first.

So - what could I potentially miss with the 5DIV, apart from the tilty-flippy LCD? I do remember some talks about the entry level FF having better noise performance, as it comes xy months later than its profi counterpart. Or asking in another way - is it worth paying more for the 5DIV, or would IQ of 5DIII be still better, than the new 6D2? 5DIII does not have DPAF, right? Not a video guy, but sometimes, during weddings, ppl ask if we would do some short videos. And I like DPAF from our 70D.

Tough choices indeed


----------



## much (Jun 29, 2017)

Sooo, no 4k no dual SD slot hmmm I guess it's time to wait for sony then 

dedicated Canon user


----------



## padam (Jun 29, 2017)

quattie said:


> Will this new Canon 6D Mark II have the Canon EOS iTR AF technology? Would be a waste of the 45 AF points if it doesn't.


No, because of the lesser RGB metering system as opposed to the 5D IV or 7D II


----------



## 4D (Jun 29, 2017)

Australia has 10% GST so bang goes that argument.



Sharlin said:


> MintChocs said:
> 
> 
> > I'm interested in the spread of the AF points. From the current videos, it looks like they are all clumped in the middle. Is anyone able to do an overlay of the original 6D AF grid and the new Mk2? I don't do much sports so tracking isn't important but I do more portraits with f1.4 so ideally need AF points spread out.
> ...


----------



## SecureGSM (Jun 29, 2017)

AF point spread is an obvious, direct and shameful 5D line protection effort by the vendor. No thank you. I am going to call this camera Rebel 6D from now on. My plan is to upgrade one of my 6Ds to 5DIV by mid next year. 
What a crock...


bereninga said:


> smithcon said:
> 
> 
> > It's disappointing to see the AF points clustered so tightly around the center; was hoping for a better spread.
> ...


----------



## traveller (Jun 29, 2017)

So here it is! Solid, but a little underwhelming... as expected! 

Quite a few are expressing surprise that the 45 AF points are so tightly clustered, but did anyone expect anything other than the 80D's AF module? If not, then it should have been obvious that the coverage would be far smaller in a full frame viewfinder (remember the criticism Nikon took when it did the same by putting the D7000's AF module in the D600?). 

The lack of dual card slots is also an obvious differentiator to keep professional users with the 5D line. 

The lack of 4K is a marketing mistake: even if 95% of the people that whine on the forums about the 6D Mk.II's full-HD only spec will never use 4K video, it is still an increasingly important "tick box" to have on a spec sheet. From a marketing point of view, it looks poor that a $2000 DSLR can't match the latest iPhone's video spec. Even if the 6D Mk.II 4K output was cripples from a professional user's point of view (and there are plenty of ways to do this: low bit-rate, large crop factor, etc.), the magic "4K" symbol should still have been on the box. 

We'll have to wait and see how the sensor performs, but it worries me that DPreview are reporting that it doesn't seem to be as good as the 5D Mk.IV in their preliminary field tests. Especially concerning is their report that: 
_"According to Canon representatives, the 6D Mark II should outperform the original 6D (which it very evidently does) but may not offer the same kind of dynamic range and absolute resolution of the EOS 5D Mark IV."_ [https://www.dpreview.com/articles/8979194861/the-same-but-different-canon-eos-6d-mark-ii-shooting-experience]
Hopefully, this is just a processing software issue (they were using DPP) and performance improves when using Camera Raw... I think that we were all hoping that Canon had turned a corner with regard to the read noise issue... :-\ 

All in all, the 6D Mk.II seems pretty competitive against the Nikon D610 & D750 and the Sony A7II. The problem is that these cameras are now approaching the end of their lives and are not only all much cheaper than the 6D Mk.II at launch price, but may also be updated at the end of 2017. Perhaps this is an indication that Canon intends to put the 6D series on a shorter update cycle, as whilst the 6D Mk.II is a solid camera today, it seems harder to imagine that it will still seem competitive in four to five years time.


----------



## scyrene (Jun 29, 2017)

LOL. Amazing how all these new or fairly new CR accounts suddenly care about a feature that nobody had even mentioned in the preceding months - namely AF point spread :

They've upgraded almost every feature of this camera's predecessor, but clearly it's DOA according to these guys. There's not enough eye-roll emojis in the world.


----------



## SecureGSM (Jun 29, 2017)

Actually, let me explain: no one was expecting such a silly move with 6DII AF spread from Canon. It was almost given to expect at least a little wider AF points spread. It is so obvious, that no one even gave it a single doubt. 



scyrene said:


> LOL. Amazing how all these new or fairly new CR accounts suddenly care about a feature that nobody had even mentioned in the preceding months - namely AF point spread :
> 
> They've upgraded almost every feature of this camera's predecessor, but clearly it's DOA according to these guys. There's not enough eye-roll emojis in the world.


----------



## Rampuri (Jun 29, 2017)

For some, 6D mark II is a crippled 5D mark IV (maybe even totally crippled 1DX mark II). But all manufacturers do the same, car manufacturers do the same.

For example last time Audi introduced new A3, it was a totally crippled A8 model. It was much smaller, ligher, less powerful, less equipped car. They didn't even put in V6, V8 or W12 engine! Well at least they made it much cheaper. Maybe they made it for another group of customers with different budget and requirements..?

As for me I'm going to buy 6D mark II in the near future, maybe after the first price drop or when the first cashback appears. It will be definitely a big upgrade from my 7D.


----------



## ScottyP (Jun 29, 2017)

At least these AF points light up red when selected as god intended. Not like the abomination that is the system with non-illuminated ones in the god forsaken 5d4. 

Can anyone overlay the af points of the 6d2 on the points from 5d4 to see what we're really looking at?


----------



## TallDan76 (Jun 29, 2017)

Deva said:


> $1,999 in the US - and it's £1,999 in the UK! I appreciate the pound's been going to hell in a handcart for the last 12 months, but it's not at parity with the dollar yet - it's almost $1.30 today. What's Canon got against Britain?



As always, US prices don't include sales tax (if any - depends on state). UK has 20% VAT.
[/quote]

Even with the 20% VAT taken in to consideration, it is still £150 more expensive in the UK.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 29, 2017)

Deva said:


> 4D said:
> 
> 
> > $A2548 here in Australia at Digidirect, which is actually cheaper than the US.
> ...



Do we really have to go through this every time? Yes, things are relatively more expensive in the EU and UK. No, it's not just Canon being mean. Yes, it's going to still happen for the 1DX3, 5D5, and 6D3. And everything else.


----------



## CowGummy (Jun 29, 2017)

ScottyP said:


> At least these AF points light up red when selected as god intended. Not like the abomination that is the system with non-illuminated ones in the god forsaken 5d4.
> 
> Can anyone overlay the af points of the 6d2 on the points from 5d4 to see what we're really looking at?



have a look in the manual: https://www.manualslib.com/manual/1177396/Canon-Eos-5d-Mark-Iv.html?page=152

And for a god forsaken abomination of a camera it certainly takes some rather nice pictures!


----------



## Jack Douglas (Jun 29, 2017)

@Traveller Like the man says:

"Despite the unexciting video specification, Dual Pixel AF does makes the 6D Mark II a very simple, relatively versatile movie-shooting camera, and certainly an enjoyable one, especially for casual hand-held shooting." 

WOW that's pretty bad, right? 

Jack


----------



## nightscape123 (Jun 29, 2017)

I really hope that DPR is full of it and they didn't purposefully gimp the sensor. I'm hesitant to pre-order now. I guess i'll wait for more reviews at this point.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Jun 29, 2017)

"purposefully gimp the sensor" you're kidding, right?

Jack


----------



## nightscape123 (Jun 29, 2017)

Jack Douglas said:


> "purposefully gimp the sensor" you're kidding, right?
> 
> Jack



sorry i'm interested in facts not canon fanboying. if the DR is closer to the original 6D then it is to the 5DIV then they used a purposefully inferior sensor and I won't be buying the 6dII. This is based on DRP's initial report which is why I said I am waiting for more reviews instead of pre-ordering like I originally intended.


----------



## Deva (Jun 29, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> Deva said:
> 
> 
> > 4D said:
> ...



So a quick check on a comparably priced product - Canon USA store is currently offering the 5D MkIII at $2,300, whilst the Canon UK store is offering it at £2,160, which is the expected difference taking into account exchange rate and VAT, as noted by TallDan76. The 6D MKII still looks over-priced in the UK.


----------



## SecureGSM (Jun 29, 2017)

here it is. very approximated, compensated for 95% OVF of 6D II ( inner grey rectangle - 6d II - viewfinder view, outer grey rectangle - same, but compensated for 95% OVF coverage, aligned with 5d IV viewfinder view, red rectangles - 6d II AF zones, blue - 5d IV AF zones, light blue little squares - 6D, original, 11 points AF system spread...) your comments, Scotty??




ScottyP said:


> At least these AF points light up red when selected as god intended. Not like the abomination that is the system with non-illuminated ones in the god forsaken 5d4.
> 
> Can anyone overlay the af points of the 6d2 on the points from 5d4 to see what we're really looking at?


----------



## dlee13 (Jun 29, 2017)

4D said:


> $A2548 here in Australia at Digidirect, which is actually cheaper than the US.
> 
> It should be $A2630 at current exchange:



If you're in Sydney, Georges Cameras have it for $2499. I preordered from them and they said they'll get it in on the 27th.


----------



## StudentOfLight (Jun 29, 2017)

SecureGSM said:


> here it is. very approximated, compensated for 95% OVF of 6D II ( inner grey rectangle - 6d II - viewfinder view, outer grey rectangle - same, but compensated for 95% OVF coverage, aligned with 5d IV viewfinder view, red rectangles - 6d II AF zones, blue - 5d IV AF zones, light blue little squares - 6D, original, 11 points AF system spread...) your comments, Scotty??
> 
> 
> 
> ...


You failed to note that the outer points on the 5D-IV are not cross-type, so cross-type coverage is very similar. The 5D-IV does have a slight advantage in vertical spread for the central group of AF points.


----------



## goldenhusky (Jun 29, 2017)

scyrene said:


> LOL. Amazing how all these new or fairly new CR accounts suddenly care about a feature that nobody had even mentioned in the preceding months - namely AF point spread :
> 
> They've upgraded almost every feature of this camera's predecessor, but clearly it's DOA according to these guys. There's not enough eye-roll emojis in the world.



Here comes the Canon Defence Forces on Forums.... How dare anyone possible can criticize Canon after all they are the imaging "leader" in the world.


----------



## Jopa (Jun 29, 2017)

According to DPR readers... Canon is Officially ******* (this post should be renamed accordingly).
People are selling their gear, jumping ship, throw themselves out of windows... Life is over!


----------



## Deepboy (Jun 29, 2017)

SecureGSM said:


> here it is. very approximated, compensated for 95% OVF of 6D II ( inner grey rectangle - 6d II - viewfinder view, outer grey rectangle - same, but compensated for 95% OVF coverage, aligned with 5d IV viewfinder view, red rectangles - 6d II AF zones, blue - 5d IV AF zones, light blue little squares - 6D, original, 11 points AF system spread...) your comments, Scotty??
> 
> 
> 
> ...



The overlay is BLUE for 5DIV, RED for 6DII and LIGHTBLUE for 6D, right? Well, the 5DIV is a little wider without doubt, while the two 6D are spread just like the same...if the spread is according to my current 6D, than it's ok i think


----------



## nightscape123 (Jun 29, 2017)

Best preview i've seen so far:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/canon-6d-mark-ii/canon-6d-mark-iiA.HTM

Claims the 6DII has the same weather sealing as the 5DIV

Also includes 100% crops at high ISO along with unedited full size jpgs.


----------



## james75 (Jun 29, 2017)

nightscape123 said:


> I really hope that DPR is full of it and they didn't purposefully gimp the sensor. I'm hesitant to pre-order now. I guess i'll wait for more reviews at this point.



Yeah, I'm a little bummed to hear this too. I hope it's not true. I was hoping for image quality to be right on par with or better than the 5div. I guess I'll wait for more reviews to come out and then make a decision. I may end up just keeping my original 6d and waiting for what canon has to offer down the road.


----------



## dlee13 (Jun 29, 2017)

Does anyone know if the 6D2 is confirmed to have On-sensor ADC?


----------



## StudentOfLight (Jun 29, 2017)

goldenhusky said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > LOL. Amazing how all these new or fairly new CR accounts suddenly care about a feature that nobody had even mentioned in the preceding months - namely AF point spread :
> ...


The spread of AF points is adequate as it covers the rule of thirds nodes with cross-type points. This is a big step up from the original 6D, which offered a diamond layout, with only the center point being cross-type.


----------



## SecureGSM (Jun 29, 2017)

correct, not all 5D IV AF points are cross type but, still, very usable when shooting portraits with large aperture primes. not as great for fast subject tracking and very low light - in my experience at least.


StudentOfLight said:


> You failed to note that the outer points on the 5D-IV are not cross-type, so cross-type coverage is very similar. The 5D-IV does have a slight advantage in vertical spread for the central group of AF points.


----------



## StudentOfLight (Jun 29, 2017)

SecureGSM said:


> correct, not all 5D IV AF points are cross type but, still, very usable when shooting portraits with large aperture primes. not as great for fast subject tracking and very low light - in my experience at least.
> 
> 
> StudentOfLight said:
> ...


When I shoot on 5-series I just turn off non-cross-type points because I want minimal frustration/disruption to my shooting experience.


----------



## dlee13 (Jun 29, 2017)

Read this on DPR which was posted by another member there:

"Just read an article about the 6DII on the Swedish site Fotosidan, there are a couple of things new to me in it. Canon explain that 4K would generate so much heat that it would require extra cooling , thus extra cost and size, and that’s why we don’t get 4K, and they don’t think the demand for 4K is big enough. "


----------



## SecureGSM (Jun 29, 2017)

yes, that would be, l in my view, the correct technique for a fast moving subject tracking or very low light situation. I would also shoot a bit loose to adjust the framing in post. 5D IV series look increasingly my next camera body. Thank you, sir. updated overlay with rule of thirds in yellow, approx. again.



StudentOfLight said:


> SecureGSM said:
> 
> 
> > correct, not all 5D IV AF points are cross type but, still, very usable when shooting portraits with large aperture primes. not as great for fast subject tracking and very low light - in my experience at least.
> ...


----------



## CanoKnight (Jun 29, 2017)

Keep repackaging the same sh** Canon, and watch Sony walk away with a bigger and bigger chunk of marketshare.


----------



## jcarapet (Jun 29, 2017)

This one is actually tempting. Some things I like more than my 5d3, some less. Miss the flip screen from t4i days and would love dual pixel. Just can't justify the cost when I already have a 5d3 with excellent image quality as is. If it had a little more FPS, a better scroll wheel, and more AF points It would be a no brainer.


----------



## bereninga (Jun 29, 2017)

SecureGSM said:


> yes, it would be, l in my view, the correct technique for a fast moving target tracking or very low light shooting. I would also shoot a bit loose to adjust the framing in post. 5D IV series look increasingly my next camera body. Thank you, sir. updated overlay with rule of thirds in yellow, approx. again.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Thank you for the overlays. This is def the most helpful post in this thread so far and should get its own topic so ppl know. The spread doesn't seem that bad with the grids overlayed now.


----------



## SecureGSM (Jun 29, 2017)

Thank you for the kind words. No, it does not look that bad. it would be a reasonable comprimise for many photographers. I just feel that I am personaly better served with 5D IV body, that's all.


bereninga said:


> Thank you for the overlays. This is def the most helpful post in this thread so far and should get its own topic so ppl know. The spread doesn't seem that bad with the grids overlayed now.


----------



## Act444 (Jun 29, 2017)

I'd be interested in a size overlay between this new 6D and the 5D4. 

As for the AF, I actually DID suspect that they would cluster the points near the center. Looks like in terms of cross-type coverage, the difference with the 5D Series is only slight. Good enough for travel use anyway. The flip screen could be a huge bonus in a large crowd of tourists anyhow...


----------



## Billybob (Jun 29, 2017)

james75 said:


> nightscape123 said:
> 
> 
> > I really hope that DPR is full of it and they didn't purposefully gimp the sensor. I'm hesitant to pre-order now. I guess i'll wait for more reviews at this point.
> ...



Add me to the list of concerned potential buyers (I have a pre-order in with Adorama). The limited AF spread was expected (curious, how much bigger is the 5D MIV AF spread?), but if the sensor's DR is not at least on par with the 5DMIV, I may need to pass. I expected the 5D to have a resolution advantage but only for extreme cropping. If Canon decided to make the difference noticeable even for non-pixel peepers, that's a bridge too far.

I have the 80D, and my primary reason for considering the new 6D was to get a significant IQ improvement. If the 80D is as good--or nearly as good in IQ--what's the point of the FF version? 

Hopefully there will be more information and testing soon so that I have time to cancel my order if needed.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 29, 2017)

CanoKnight said:


> Keep repackaging the same sh** Canon, and watch Sony walk away with a bigger and bigger chunk of marketshare.



Bigger and bigger? Well, first Sony will have to stop _losing_ market share to Canon. But hey, it could happen!


----------



## -pekr- (Jun 29, 2017)

Sorry for slight off-topic, but what is Bluetooth used for? NFC? Because 5DIV does not have Bluetooth listed, but it has NFC too. 

So - maybe, apart from tilty-flippy LCD, we found another advantage of 6DII to 5DIV - Bluetooth. At least on our 70D, the wi-fi is real resource hog draining the battery.


----------



## Zv (Jun 29, 2017)

-pekr- said:


> Sorry for slight off-topic, but what is Bluetooth used for? NFC? Because 5DIV does not have Bluetooth listed, but it has NFC too.
> 
> So - maybe, apart from tilty-flippy LCD, we found another advantage of 6DII to 5DIV - Bluetooth. At least on our 70D, the wi-fi is real resource hog draining the battery.



It's for a low powered always on wireless connection between the camera and smartphone/tablet that supports BT 4.0

I've never used BT on a camera like this. Sometimes when using Wifi and moving around a lot I have to break the connection, compose a shot through the VF then reconnect. I'm guessing BT would eliminate all that hassle and just stay on. Also means my phone screen isn't on all the time as I walk about.


----------



## Equinox (Jun 29, 2017)

nightscape123 said:


> Best preview i've seen so far:
> 
> http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/canon-6d-mark-ii/canon-6d-mark-iiA.HTM
> 
> ...



I have for months now reading every single post on this camera and as a landscape / astro photog all I am very interested in increased weather sealing and increased DR.

Seems like a solid review of the Camera....Although I really will be amazed if the weather sealing really is as good as the 5D4 as I thought Canon indicated it was dust and 'drip' resistant. If the weather sealing has been improved along with increased DR and high ISO noise this camera will no doubt be a solid landscape photography camera one that I will be purchasing, however for now I'm going to wait for some more independent reviews. 

Fingers crossed! 

Noxi


----------



## Tangent (Jun 29, 2017)

nightscape123 said:


> I really hope that DPR is full of it and they didn't purposefully gimp the sensor. I'm hesitant to pre-order now. I guess i'll wait for more reviews at this point.



I saw that in DPR as well and it has given me pause. I shoot a lot of landscape; the absolutely most important ask from me for the 6D mkII was improved sensor performance in DR, and weakening or removing that nasty AA filter.

If the 6D mkII does not have the improved DR of the 5d MkIV and 80D but retains older sensor technology with less DR that would be a major disappointment. The samples so far seem unimpressive in DR and the fine detail looks strongly AA'd. Just samples from beta, yes -- I will wait and see, but my early impression is that this is a very useful upgrade in many respects but a disappointment where it matters most: the sensor.

I sure hope it proves out otherwise.


----------



## Luds34 (Jun 29, 2017)

Thanks to all the folks working out the AF point overlays!

Sure, the spread appears a bit disappointing, but that is pretty standard with full frame cameras. And the original 6D had a diamond pattern, this more rectangular pattern does allow to get more to the corner of the frame for an AF point. Not to mention the AF points being cross type make them much more useful then the 6D.

No, everything I see here shows a very nice step up in the AF department, especially in subject tracking and action shooting. The 6D2 will make an excellent "jack of all trades" camera.

I suspect the sensor will be about equivalent to the 5D4. I don't see Canon intentionally holding back sensor tech. I thought they once said they use the best sensor available.

I for one look forward to getting my hands on this camera and expect I'll make some great images with it.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 29, 2017)

Deva said:


> So a quick check on a comparably priced product - Canon USA store is currently offering the 5D MkIII at $2,300, whilst the Canon UK store is offering it at £2,160, which is the expected difference taking into account exchange rate and VAT, as noted by TallDan76. The 6D MKII still looks over-priced in the UK.



And yet we have this conversation with every new product. Nearly-discontinued products have a number of additional distorting effects, such as local stock and demand levels. Again, we have this same discussion for literally every new body.


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 29, 2017)

Canon could have easily designed the AF sensor to have full coverage. All they need to do is to make the unit twice as wide and three times as tall, and to completely redesign the optical path inside the camera to make room for it. Sure, this would have meant changing the flange to sensor distance to make enough room, but you would get better AF point coverage. The only downside would be that the camera would be much deeper and taller, but that is an advantage! People with gorilla hands would have an easier time to hold the camera..... Sure you would have to buy a whole new set of lenses for the increased flange distance, but then you would have all new lenses and you would have helped to stimulate the economy!

Or, you could realize that sometimes things are the way that they are for a good reason.......


----------



## bandido (Jun 29, 2017)

6D Mark II or 5D Mark III?


----------



## CanonCams (Jun 29, 2017)

Mmmm.. 

The DR is troubling. I have an 80D, if it isn't much better than that why upgrade?


----------



## Deepboy (Jun 29, 2017)

bandido said:


> 6D Mark II or 5D Mark III?



It depends on what you're looking for 

Consider that IQ and DR in 6D are superior to 5DIII. And 6DII is (hopefully) superior to 6D. So the answer is easy.

If you look for double card slot, more rugged body, somewhat better (and more widespread) AF, the answer is easy again.

But, IMHO, i would never buy today a 5DIII compared to a 6DII; the 6DII should be way better and modern than the 5DIII. The comparison is to be done with the 5DIV, to understand if 6DII not so inferior to be taken into account.

I think we have to wait in-depth reviews on IQ and DR.


----------



## bandido (Jun 29, 2017)

No headphone jack? Why? Canon Why?


----------



## dexstrose (Jun 29, 2017)

bandido said:


> No headphone jack? Why? Canon Why?



Its not a radio.  ;D


----------



## Sporgon (Jun 29, 2017)

Epaminonda said:


> bandido said:
> 
> 
> > 6D Mark II or 5D Mark III?
> ...



DR, or more specifically shadow recovery at low ISO, yes without a doubt. But this doesn't always effect "IQ". In most situations within a 'normal' ISO range I would not expect there to be any practical difference. 

It's interesting that at least in the UK these two bodies are now identically priced. I'd say low iso shadow recovery + flip / touch screen, + video DPAF = 6DII. For the rest 5DIII. 

But it's a moot point anyway because I believe that to take a serious picture you have to have two card slots anyway ;D


----------



## Zv (Jun 29, 2017)

Wait let me get this straight. So some person over on DPR claims that the 6DII has less DR than the 5DIV based on JPEGs? And now it's being touted around like it's fact that the 6DII has the same DR as the 80D?? This is all based on what scientific method may I ask? I don't see any links to any hard numbers or graphs. 

People are actually canceling pre-orders over this? Hmmm maybe wait until some sensible data comes in, perhaps?


----------



## bandido (Jun 29, 2017)

dexstrose said:


> bandido said:
> 
> 
> > No headphone jack? Why? Canon Why?
> ...


The 80D is not a radio either, but they included a headphone jack. Go figure ???


----------



## Sharlin (Jun 29, 2017)

Zv said:


> Wait let me get this straight. So some person over on DPR claims that the 6DII has less DR than the 5DIV based on JPEGs? And now it's being touted around like it's fact that the 6DII has the same DR as the 80D?? This is all based on what scientific method may I ask? I don't see any links to any hard numbers or graphs.
> 
> People are actually canceling pre-orders over this? Hmmm maybe wait until some sensible data comes in, perhaps?



It's in the internet, it must be true.


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 29, 2017)

Tangent said:


> nightscape123 said:
> 
> 
> > I really hope that DPR is full of it and they didn't purposefully gimp the sensor. I'm hesitant to pre-order now. I guess i'll wait for more reviews at this point.
> ...



Canon has a poor track record in putting out sample pictures on release that really do not do its products justice. I would wait a while for the field reviews from whomever you trust.


----------



## CanonCams (Jun 29, 2017)

Zv said:


> Wait let me get this straight. So some person over on DPR claims that the 6DII has less DR than the 5DIV based on JPEGs? And now it's being touted around like it's fact that the 6DII has the same DR as the 80D?? This is all based on what scientific method may I ask? I don't see any links to any hard numbers or graphs.
> 
> People are actually canceling pre-orders over this? Hmmm maybe wait until some sensible data comes in, perhaps?



The world is burning! The end is near!


----------



## Sharlin (Jun 29, 2017)

StudentOfLight said:


> SecureGSM said:
> 
> 
> > here it is. very approximated, compensated for 95% OVF of 6D II ( inner grey rectangle - 6d II - viewfinder view, outer grey rectangle - same, but compensated for 95% OVF coverage, aligned with 5d IV viewfinder view, red rectangles - 6d II AF zones, blue - 5d IV AF zones, light blue little squares - 6D, original, 11 points AF system spread...) your comments, Scotty??
> ...



This demonstrates nicely why the outer AF points aren't cross-type even in Canon's flagship AF system. They're simply too far in the periphery for reliable vertical phase information.


----------



## nightscape123 (Jun 29, 2017)

Zv said:


> Wait let me get this straight. So some person over on DPR claims that the 6DII has less DR than the 5DIV based on JPEGs? And now it's being touted around like it's fact that the 6DII has the same DR as the 80D?? This is all based on what scientific method may I ask? I don't see any links to any hard numbers or graphs.
> 
> People are actually canceling pre-orders over this? Hmmm maybe wait until some sensible data comes in, perhaps?



People are waiting to preorder based on a major camera review site taking and editing many raw pictures and saying they were lacking. They aren't allowed to post the Raws as per canon nda probably for this very reason. 

I may still end up preordering if better information becomes available but the sensor is the most important part of the camera. If for some reason it's not performing well that is the best possible reason to hold off ordering one.


----------



## leadin2 (Jun 29, 2017)

https://youtu.be/whntis9ogZ4

It is always official when you hear from Rudy.


----------



## Talys (Jun 29, 2017)

All it took was to look at the photos on the review here to sell me:

http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/canon-6d-mark-ii/canon-6d-mark-iiA.HTM

Note the photos are taken by the reviewer and not by Canon. There is one of a buffalo shot at <b>ISO 6400</b> with a 100-400 L II, at f/5.6, 1/500 and processed with DPR. The darks and the on the buffalo look wonderful at when viewed to 100%. The graininess on the lights are very pleasing at 100% too, with very good sharpness.

The photos taken at ISO 100 and ISO 160 are beautiful. Sadly, there are no sample photos in the mid-range ISOs.

It's really all I need to know though, because what I am looking for is a FF version of the 80D that shoots more usable high ISO photos than the 80D.


----------



## Studio Orange (Jun 29, 2017)

Seems like a solid camera. Especially as a back-up / secondary body for wedding photography.

The AF spread doesn't bother me at all -- as long as they all work reliably. Ultimately, I'd rather be confident in nailing the focus. There's enough MP to work with that I can fix composition in post. Can't fix botched focus.

I guess the big thing for me will be some real tests showcasing low light and DR performance.


----------



## djkraq (Jun 29, 2017)

Jack Douglas said:


> Of course wider AF spread would be nice but look at the 1DX2 where they tried hard and it's not much wider. That's because of physical limitations. However, to say that all these cross points and F8 capability is not an improvement and useful is a little dense considering all but the center are non-cross and not great in the 6D.
> 
> If you liked the 6D, and I did, then this is a major improvement in many areas and it's most welcome and it'll be a fine camera. Four years with the 6D and I did maybe 1 hour of video. Oh, but if it was 4K I'd do lots - sadly probably not, so why sweat it. Many like me simply don't shoot much video and Canon knows it.
> 
> Jack



Well, my 1DX2 has a really wide AF....when using DPAF. Remember, DPAF I believe reads straight from the sensor instead of the AF chip.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 29, 2017)

Zv said:


> And now it's being touted around like it's fact that the 6DII has the same DR as the 80D??



In other words, the 6DII has better low ISO DR than Nikon's flagship D5.


----------



## IglooEater (Jun 29, 2017)

nightscape123 said:


> I really hope that DPR is full of it and they didn't purposefully gimp the sensor. I'm hesitant to pre-order now. I guess i'll wait for more reviews at this point.



I for one was fine with the dynamic range of previous canon sensors; this would not give me pause at all. Besides, we have no real tests done yet.
What gives me pause is the pathetic state of my wallet :'(


----------



## LesC (Jun 29, 2017)

Wonder if GPS will still drain the battery with camera switched off as with the original 6D?


----------



## jmoya (Jun 29, 2017)

Anyone want to buy a new canon 6d mark II? I pre ordered this morning while half asleep.  Having buyers remorse after all the reviews. :'( It will ship out as soon as I get it! Brand new!!!!


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 29, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Zv said:
> 
> 
> > And now it's being touted around like it's fact that the 6DII has the same DR as the 80D??
> ...



Why do you keep bringing facts to what is clearly an entirely-emotional argument?


----------



## amorse (Jun 29, 2017)

Tangent said:


> nightscape123 said:
> 
> 
> > I really hope that DPR is full of it and they didn't purposefully gimp the sensor. I'm hesitant to pre-order now. I guess i'll wait for more reviews at this point.
> ...



100% agreed for me. I have the current 6D and the dynamic range improvement is my biggest desire - everything else I'd like to improve about the old 6D was by far secondary. I could justify the 6Dii if it was literally the old 6D with a *big* boost in sensor quality. I was really really hoping that the 6D II would continue the trend and show at least equivalent DR as the 5D IV if not an improvement (as was the case between the 5Diii and the 6D). I was 100% on board with pre-ordering until I saw the DPR review.

I really don't think this issue would slow sales of the 6Dii so I understand Canon's decision, but for me that means I now have to think 5D IV or 5DSR II (if that ever materializes). Only thing left to do is see some real world tests and DR measurements I guess.


----------



## Alejandro (Jun 29, 2017)

Canon 80D (UHS-1): Write Speed 81mb/s
Canon T6i/T6s (UHS-1): Write Speed 71mb/s
Canon T7i (UHS-1): Write Speed 81mb/s
Canon 5Ds (UHS-1 SD SLOT): Write Speed 71mb/s
Canon 5D4 (UHS-1 SD SLOT): Write Speed 79mb/s

Speed needed for 4K: 35/40 mb/s.

¿Why are you all whining?

"I hope the 6D2 Features a better AF System"
-Here, have 45 All crosstypes Af Points. (27 Cross in F/8) compared to 1 AF Point (4 Assisting) in the 5D3.


That's what they do. They improve the 6D, surpass the previous 5D's but without giving (not directly) something to leave the 5D4 a step ahead.

We all know it'll have a better noise performance and DR than the 5D4 it does have 4mpx less...


----------



## amorse (Jun 29, 2017)

Zv said:


> Wait let me get this straight. So some person over on DPR claims that the 6DII has less DR than the 5DIV based on JPEGs? And now it's being touted around like it's fact that the 6DII has the same DR as the 80D?? This is all based on what scientific method may I ask? I don't see any links to any hard numbers or graphs.
> 
> People are actually canceling pre-orders over this? Hmmm maybe wait until some sensible data comes in, perhaps?



To be fair, DPR said the following in their review:

"_According to Canon representatives, the 6D Mark II should outperform the original 6D (which it very evidently does) but may not offer the same kind of dynamic range and absolute resolution of the EOS 5D Mark IV._"

https://www.dpreview.com/articles/8979194861/the-same-but-different-canon-eos-6d-mark-ii-shooting-experience

If that comment truly comes from a canon rep (and not judgement of jpgs), then I don't blame people for waiting to see some real world results rather than preordering if dynamic range is the most critical feature to that person. I may be in the minority, but if I choose the 6D ii it'll be because I think the 6D ii is the best tool for what I'm trying to accomplish. For me, sensor quality is the most important criteria and if it is compromised I'll look at the 5D IV. I think there was reason to expect that the 6D ii could outperform the 5D IV in DR since that was the case in the 6D vs 5D III comparisons. Since that is not guaranteed at this point, I think holding off on pre-ordering is probably a good idea for people with that need.


----------



## unfocused (Jun 29, 2017)

bandido said:


> dexstrose said:
> 
> 
> > bandido said:
> ...



I hate the way people throw around terms like "nerfed" but in this case, I believe it's a legitimate criticism. Having a headphone jack is very important for shooting video and it is a feature that was added to the 80D (although not on the 70D). I totally understand and have always defended product differentiation and I have no problem with Canon not adding 4K to this body, but not having a headphone jack for a camera that has a lot of other video-friendly features just seems kind of chintzy.


----------



## unfocused (Jun 29, 2017)

amorse said:


> Zv said:
> 
> 
> > Wait let me get this straight. So some person over on DPR claims that the 6DII has less DR than the 5DIV based on JPEGs? And now it's being touted around like it's fact that the 6DII has the same DR as the 80D?? This is all based on what scientific method may I ask? I don't see any links to any hard numbers or graphs.
> ...



This is a dangerously reasonable response. I'm not sure if you belong on the Canon Rumors forum. 

Just to add a few comments. 

I have been urging caution among those who were certain that because the 6D had slightly better sensor performance than the 5DIII that it was a given the 6DII would be better than the 5DIV. Anyone who has compared the 1DxII and the 5DIV should know that there simply isn't a lot of room between those two sensors for a 6DII sensor to slide between. 

I don't understand the science behind it, but clearly the number of megapixels is no longer as big of a factor in determining sensor performance that it once was.

Also, people need to keep some perspective here. Given the current state of the art when it comes to sensor performance, it would be healthy if we all recognized that we are deep in the realm of theoretical, rather than practical, differences.


----------



## hbr (Jun 29, 2017)

Here is another site that also took photos at Yellowstone with the 6DII.https://www.digitaltrends.com/digital-camera-reviews/canon-eos-6d-mark-ii-review/#/1-21
Very nice pictures.
Brian


----------



## Jack Douglas (Jun 29, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Zv said:
> ...



I'd worry if the IQ of the camera matched the IQ of some posters. Ah, but it's just emotion; that helps, thanks, I have to try to be more tolerant. 

Jack


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 29, 2017)

unfocused said:


> I have been urging caution among those who were certain that because the 6D had slightly better sensor performance than the 5DIII that it was a given the 6DII would be better than the 5DIV.



People have short memories. I wonder if anyone remembers this little camera from Canon called the 5DIII, and how compared to its predecessor, it improved on many things – AF, fps, metering, etc. – but IQ really wasn't one of those things and saw only a very modest improvement. Anyone see an analogy here? Anyone? Bueller?


----------



## ShootTheStars12 (Jun 29, 2017)

Reposting this now that the camera has been officially announced:

I think I am the ideal target for this camera. I started out with an SL1 and learned the ropes of DSLR's with that camera. I now am ready to upgrade to a FF camera. To me, 4K video would've been nice, but I don't really care too much. I care about fantastic pictures, and the 4K timelapse feature sounds like a lot of fun to me!

I was hoping some experts here could help me out deciding between this 6D II and the Pentax K-1. I travel a lot, and love getting great travel shots, landscapes, and I am dying to do astrophotography. Those are my main uses. What are the opinions here on the pros and cons of these 2 budget-friendly (sorta?) cameras for me?


----------



## candyman (Jun 29, 2017)

I read through the specs.....USB 2.0. Is it really? After USB 3.0 is on the market for years now. It has been added to the Canon 7D MK II and the Canon 5D MK IV. Although not to the 77D, the rebels and the M-series.
Try to see the logic for not adding that in the 6D MKII


----------



## justawriter (Jun 29, 2017)

dexstrose said:


> bandido said:
> 
> 
> > No headphone jack? Why? Canon Why?
> ...



Technically it can broadcast and receive wifi and bluetooth signals, so yes, it is a radio.


----------



## Billybob (Jun 29, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Zv said:
> ...



Tried to bite my tongue, but when you called a statement that is blatantly misleading without proper context a fact, I had to chime in.

Here are some unvarnished facts relevant to your assertion:

*Fact:* the D5 is Nikon's *flagshp PJ *and action camera and as such isn't designed for great DR. For this camera's users, speed matters far more than DR and resolution. Why, many or most PJs shoot jpeg, that's how important DR is to the target audience for this camera.

*Fact: *Nikon's flagship IQ camera is the D810. Its DR is ranked number 1 on DXO.

*Fact:* And this may be the most relevant to this discussion. In terms of IQ, the D5 ranks 26th among _*Nikon*_ cameras. The D5's DR ranks behind every Nikon DSLR released since 2008 and even behind a Nikon Coolpix compact camera. It need not be said, but I'll say it anyway, I and very few others look to the D5 as the industry standard for best possible IQ or DR. 

*Fact:* In a list of Canon and Nikon cameras, the 80D ranks 23 in DR, a full 1.5 stops behind the D810. It ranks behind 11 Nikon APS-C cameras. 

Therefore, it may be factual that the 80D has better DR than Nikon's *flagship PJ* camera. However, that gets you to a ranking of 26 in DR for Nikon cameras, behind some cameras that are almost nine years old. More importantly, it puts the 80D 2.5 stops behind the SOTA D810's industry leading 14.8 stops of DR according to DXO.

Whereas, I like my 80D, and its DR is much better than any Canon camera I've previously owned, I frankly would rather have a FF camera perform closer to my D810 in DR. 

Why, I'd be happy if the 6DM II even had DR that was as good as any APS-C camera on the market. Is that really asking too much?


----------



## nightscape123 (Jun 29, 2017)

unfocused said:


> amorse said:
> 
> 
> > Zv said:
> ...



There are a few practical differences. For instance the new 16-35 f/2.8 has 4 stops of vignetting that extends a third of the way into the frame. That means every single shot you take with that lens will need to have the shadows pushed 3-4 stops. The DR becomes incredibly important when shooting with that lens.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 29, 2017)

bandido said:


> No headphone jack? Why? Canon Why?



It's Canon being innovative. The latest iPhone doesn't have a headphone jack, either.


----------



## Jack Douglas (Jun 29, 2017)

@ ShootTheStars12 I moved to Canon (only superficially attached to Nikon) for various reasons, a main one being glass and once significantly attached to and loving the glass, that seals it for me, especially since I love, for example, the 400DO II (wildlife). If I was primarily landscape and wide I'd certainly be more seriously considering other cameras (but keeping in mind ergonomics, servicing, batter life etc.) Small/light matters little when using big lenses but when walking for many hours shooting wide, light becomes desirable. Others will have more to say.

Jack


----------



## BillB (Jun 29, 2017)

nightscape123 said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > amorse said:
> ...



If I recall correctly, the 3-4 stops of vignetting are at 16mm and F2.8, not surprisingly, and the amount of vignetting decreases rather quickly zooming in from 16mm and stopping down from F2.8. While the vignetting is clearly not desirable, I am not sure that I would say that it is incredibly important to eliminate all vignetting at 16mm and F2.8 with a 3-4 stop shadow push. It is simply not true that every single shot you take with that lens will need to have the shadows pushed 3-4 stops.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jun 29, 2017)

Billybob said:


> Tried to bite my tongue, but when you called a statement that is blatantly misleading without proper context a fact, I had to chime in.
> 
> Here are some unvarnished facts relevant to your assertion:
> 
> ...




Then get the D5 direct competitor. I was so impressed with actual hands on use and real world results I got two.

https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Canon--EOS-1D-X-Mark-II-versus-Nikon-D5-versus-Nikon-D810___1071_1062_963


----------



## Nakean (Jun 29, 2017)

pj1974 said:


> bereninga said:
> 
> 
> > smithcon said:
> ...


Exept that your wrong. Enter the Sony A9 93% AF frame coverage with eye autofocus. Bow down EVERYTHING ELSE! I shoot canon but rented this tiny beast and it's AMAZING!!!


----------



## Jack Douglas (Jun 29, 2017)

While it clearly is amazing, and I applaud what Sony is doing, it's still the honeymoon. Every wife is initially amazing.  Time will tell.

@Scott, that's great to hear. I don't regret mine.

Jack


----------



## amorse (Jun 29, 2017)

BillB said:


> nightscape123 said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...



I agree in that not every shot will see this issue, but some will. Very high DR isn't a feature set that makes every shot better, but neither is being able to shoot 16 frames per second. Both have a place and niche where they make a very real difference, and neither are critical to all situations.

Even moving beyond the 16-35 at f2.8, I want more DR for a similar reason. I use the 16-35 f4 and am usually shooting anywhere between f8 and f16 (no vignetting under normal circumstances). I frequently take very wide (16mm) long exposures using the Lee big stopper which creates a *lot* of vignetting. If it happens to be a landscape with any bright sky in the shot, the corners could need a significant push to level out the vignetting. Even using ND graduated filters to level out the exposure, I still find myself having to push the shadows in parts of the image quite a bit, or clip the highlights. 

Bottom line, I think there are practical scenarios where significantly improved DR is an asset worth making a purchasing decision on - I don't think this is simply touting specs for the sake of being rated higher than the competition. With that said, it's all speculation until we see some real world results.


----------



## Tangent (Jun 29, 2017)

I found this statement from Canon :



> Low light shooting has been further improved thanks to the EOS 6D Mark II using similar sensor technology as found on the award-winning EOS 5D Mark IV and EOS-1D X Mark II DSLRs.



http://cpn.canon-europe.com/content/news/canon_launches_the_eos_6d_mark_ii.do?utm_source=newsletter_june_5_17

Still looking forward to more real world samples and test results, naturally.


----------



## bholliman (Jun 29, 2017)

The specs look great! 

It appears to be a nice upgrade over the 6D as it should be, but a step-up from the 5D MkIII as well in most respects. I have a friend who has been looking to buy a 5D MkIII refurb for the same price ($1999 USD), I told him I would go with the 6D MkII. The only significant (to me) negatives compared with the 5D Mk III are (1) lack of dual memory cards, (2) lack of joystick and (3) 45 AF points instead of 61 [but more cross type] and (4) reduced AF point spread. Lots of plusses for the 6D MkII.


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 29, 2017)

amorse said:


> I could justify the 6Dii if it was literally the old 6D with a *big* boost in sensor quality.



No camera is gong to have a *big* boost in sensor quality over the 6D. Sensor technology has pretty much stalled in the last 5 years and it is all about compromises.


----------



## Billybob (Jun 29, 2017)

privatebydesign said:


> Billybob said:
> 
> 
> > Tried to bite my tongue, but when you called a statement that is blatantly misleading without proper context a fact, I had to chime in.
> ...



I'd love the D5's competitor. But I can get a Nikon FF camera with great DR for about $1500 (I actually did), which is, what, $4500 less than that 1D camera you were referring to?

I'd rather get that DR in a compact, sub $2k package like the 6D then buy a big bulky behemoth that is way overdesigned for my intended purposes. I mean that I almost never have a need to shoot fast action in near darkness in bursts of 15-17fps.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jun 29, 2017)

LonelyBoy said:


> Tried to bite my tongue, but when you called a statement that is blatantly misleading without proper context a fact, I had to chime in.
> 
> Here are some unvarnished facts relevant to your assertion:
> 
> ...



*Fact:* DR is important when Nikon and Sony are ahead. DR is not important when they are not. This is because it is not and never was about DR; it is and was about finding something - anything - to criticize. 

*Fact:* We don't have any real data on the 6D2's DR, just vague comments. Let's see what the actual data shows before we start frothing at the mouth, maybe?

So yeah, it's a lot more about emotion than fact. Need a tissue?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 29, 2017)

Billybob said:


> ...the D5 is Nikon's flagshp PJ and action camera and as such isn't designed for great DR. For this camera's users, speed matters far more than DR and resolution.



Well, you've swallowed DPR's rationale _excuse_ hook, line and sinker. But since you brought up 'target market', do you believe that the 6DII is targeted primarily at those seeking the absolute best IQ? Given that they've kitted it with a variable aperture non-L zoom, it seems Canon disagrees. Oh well, there are lots of forum dwellers who think they know more than Canon about building and selling ILCs. 




Billybob said:


> More importantly, it puts the 80D 2.5 stops behind the SOTA D810's industry leading 14.8 stops of DR according to DXO.



Do you believe that the D810 can capture 14.8-stops of DR? Well, lots of people swallow that BS hook, line and sinker, too. 

In any case...

*Fact:* we have no data on the 6DII's DR, but if the 6DII doesn't meet your needs, don't buy it. I certainly have no intention of buying one.


----------



## tmroper (Jun 29, 2017)

bereninga said:


> smithcon said:
> 
> 
> > It's disappointing to see the AF points clustered so tightly around the center; was hoping for a better spread.
> ...



I've been using an old film EOS 1N a little bit, and even that has more horizontal reach with its five AF points. Granted, it has no vertical points, but I don't see the point of cramming so many into such a small area. It's like a step backwards, and likely very annoying to use, when manually selecting the points.


----------



## transpo1 (Jun 29, 2017)

smithcon said:


> And a hands-on preview video is up from Kai Wong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0crokqG2uYg



Recommend everyone on this forum watches it from 5:52 on  His analogy is great. https://youtu.be/0crokqG2uYg?t=5m52s


----------



## snappy604 (Jun 30, 2017)

hehe even Kai goes 'why?!' on the no 4k ;-)


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 30, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> smithcon said:
> 
> 
> > And a hands-on preview video is up from Kai Wong: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0crokqG2uYg
> ...



You've made your point so effectively, that I don't even have to watch the video to understand how critically important 4K video capability is in this day and age.


----------



## quod (Jun 30, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> No camera is gong to have a *big* boost in sensor quality over the 6D. Sensor technology has pretty much stalled in the last 5 years and it is all about compromises.


I shoot the A7RII. Yes, it *does* have a *big* boost in sensor quality over anything Canon. Sorry dude, but I shoot both systems. No speculation here.


----------



## dak723 (Jun 30, 2017)

quod said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > No camera is gong to have a *big* boost in sensor quality over the 6D. Sensor technology has pretty much stalled in the last 5 years and it is all about compromises.
> ...



Sorry dude, but I tried the Sony A7 And the A7II with the intent of replacing my 6D. There was no practical difference in DR and the Canon had better color and contrast. No speculation here!


----------



## RiceCanon (Jun 30, 2017)

I love my 6D! I'm impressed with the new features of the 6Dii and will most likely get one. DR is very important to me because I would like to do a little less exposure blending in post if possible. Really hope to see real world reviews showing a meaningful improvement in DR over the 6D.


----------



## ShootTheStars12 (Jun 30, 2017)

ShootTheStars12 said:


> Reposting this now that the camera has been officially announced:
> 
> I think I am the ideal target for this camera. I started out with an SL1 and learned the ropes of DSLR's with that camera. I now am ready to upgrade to a FF camera. To me, 4K video would've been nice, but I don't really care too much. I care about fantastic pictures, and the 4K timelapse feature sounds like a lot of fun to me!
> 
> I was hoping some experts here could help me out deciding between this 6D II and the Pentax K-1. I travel a lot, and love getting great travel shots, landscapes, and I am dying to do astrophotography. Those are my main uses. What are the opinions here on the pros and cons of these 2 budget-friendly (sorta?) cameras for me?





Jack Douglas said:


> @ ShootTheStars12 I moved to Canon (only superficially attached to Nikon) for various reasons, a main one being glass and once significantly attached to and loving the glass, that seals it for me, especially since I love, for example, the 400DO II (wildlife). If I was primarily landscape and wide I'd certainly be more seriously considering other cameras (but keeping in mind ergonomics, servicing, batter life etc.) Small/light matters little when using big lenses but when walking for many hours shooting wide, light becomes desirable. Others will have more to say.
> 
> Jack



Thank you Jack. I'm in good shape and still in my 20's, so I'm dumb enough to not care about the weight at this point lol. I am interested to hear more opinions about the 6d II vs the Pentax K-1


----------



## scyrene (Jun 30, 2017)

Sharlin said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > SecureGSM said:
> ...



Noo, you misunderstand, apparently it's just silly...



SecureGSM said:


> Actually, let me explain: no one was expecting such a silly move with 6DII AF spread from Canon. It was almost given to expect at least a little wider AF points spread. It is so obvious, that no one even gave it a single doubt.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



: : :


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 30, 2017)

ShootTheStars12 said:


> Reposting this now that the camera has been officially announced:
> 
> I think I am the ideal target for this camera. I started out with an SL1 and learned the ropes of DSLR's with that camera. I now am ready to upgrade to a FF camera. To me, 4K video would've been nice, but I don't really care too much. I care about fantastic pictures, and the 4K timelapse feature sounds like a lot of fun to me!
> 
> I was hoping some experts here could help me out deciding between this 6D II and the Pentax K-1. I travel a lot, and love getting great travel shots, landscapes, and I am dying to do astrophotography. Those are my main uses. What are the opinions here on the pros and cons of these 2 budget-friendly (sorta?) cameras for me?



If you are thinking of astrophotograpy, (things like Milky Way shots), The three important things are tripod, low noise camera body, and fast lens. 

With your tripod, you want STURDY! You can attach weights to the tripod (camera bag, etc) to make it more stable, and if you want to go crazy enough, you can even get a tracking head for it so that you can do longer exposures without stars turning into lines.....

For a low noise camera, realistically, you want a FF camera because it gathers 2 1/2 times more light than a crop camera. It does not matter much what the brand is, the most recent cameras are all similar....

For a lens, you want FAST. The faster the lens, the faster exposure you can get away with, or the lower ISO (less noise). There are some wide to medium angle F1.4 lenses out now that are very nice....


----------



## HarryFilm (Jun 30, 2017)

ecka said:


> How long until MagicLantern makes it shoot 4k?



I think I can answer that for you....how about two weeks 
after I get the camera we've pre-ordered in order to get 
4K video at 50 fps/60 fps using a custom Motion Wavelet 
video codec using 32-bit fixed point math (i.e. 16-bits for 
the integer portion and 16-bits for the fractional portion) 
to prevent overheating of the 6D mk 2's Digic-7 processor.

Using integers to represent real numbers is an old 1980's 
era programming trick which SPEEDS processing over the
Floating Point math unit used in the ARM-based Digic-7
processor used in the Canon 6d mk 2 camera.

Since not as many operations are used to do the arithmetic,
it prevents camera overheating.


----------



## ricky_005 (Jun 30, 2017)

I'll pass, better options from other manufactures.....


----------



## Billybob (Jun 30, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Billybob said:
> 
> 
> > ...the D5 is Nikon's flagshp PJ and action camera and as such isn't designed for great DR. For this camera's users, speed matters far more than DR and resolution.
> ...



A straw man argument I wasn't opining about Canon's product-differentiation strategy. Rather, my post was about relative DR between Canon and Nikon cameras and how misleading it is to compare the 80D to Nikon's 26th ranked camera in terms of DR to try to show that the 80D is competitive in DR. No it ain't. In fact the 80D at 23 on the list of Nikon and Canon bodies, is 21 spots behind the best APS-C camera--the D7200--for DR. 

In short, the point I was addressing was the implicit claim that if the 6DMII's DR was the same as the 80D, that would not be such a bad thing. Well, it certainly wouldn't be good. It's only okay if you're fine with mediocrity. 

But instead of addressing my argument--I know, it's tough to deal with facts--you try to obfuscate the problem by talking about market segmentation and Canon's strategic sophistication. 

Do you really think that forum readers are so stupid that they can't see through your clumsy attempts to change the subject?



neuroanatomist said:


> Billybob said:
> 
> 
> > More importantly, it puts the 80D 2.5 stops behind the SOTA D810's industry leading 14.8 stops of DR according to DXO.
> ...


A lot of people, myself included, question DXO's scale. However, whether or not the number is valid, the D810's DR is truly industry leading. I have been consistently amazed at how pliable my D810 RAW files are and how little flexibility I have working with my Canon RAW files. Now, I don't manipulate DR on every shot. Most shots I take with Canon equipment are excellent. But when I want to work with a file, I'm glad when that shot was produced by a D810. 

That comes from personal experience. Have you worked with Nikon bodies enough to make your "BS" claim about their DR from personal experience or are you just relying on second-hand claims?



neuroanatomist said:


> In any case...
> 
> *Fact:* we have no data on the 6DII's DR, but if the 6DII doesn't meet your needs, don't buy it. I certainly have no intention of buying one.



Ah, we do agree on this point. After reading elsewhere about other features that have been crippled on the 6DMII, I plan to cancel my pre-order.


----------



## Sarpedon (Jun 30, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > smithcon said:
> ...



There's really no need to be snide and condescending toward a perfectly innocent expression of opinion. 

I mean, everyone makes mistakes, right?


----------



## ricky_005 (Jun 30, 2017)

tmroper said:


> bereninga said:
> 
> 
> > smithcon said:
> ...



Canon's very skilled at screwing users over ..... Wait for the new Nikon and Sony gear...Will be here before you know it.


----------



## CanonCams (Jun 30, 2017)

http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/6d-mk-ii.htm


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 30, 2017)

Sarpedon said:


> There's really no need to be snide and condescending toward a perfectly innocent expression of opinion.
> 
> I mean, everyone makes mistakes, right?



Indeed - thanks for the correction!

If I may also say, I quite like that your screengrab has Kai pointing right at the resolution setting - well done!


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 30, 2017)

Billybob said:


> In short, the point I was addressing was the implicit claim that if the 6DMII's DR was the same as the 80D, that would not be such a bad thing. Well, it certainly wouldn't be good. It's only okay if you're fine with mediocrity.



Ahh, ok. You're a DRone. I get it, now. Low ISO DR is the be-all-end-all of image quality for you. Clearly, there's no point in pursuing a line of reasoning here. 




Billybob said:


> A lot of people, myself included, question DXO's scale. However, whether or not the number is valid, the D810's DR is truly industry leading. ...
> That comes from personal experience. Have you worked with Nikon bodies enough to make your "BS" claim about their DR from personal experience or are you just relying on second-hand claims?



A strawman argument of your own, well done. I didn't suggest that the D810's DR is industry leading (well, among dSLRs at any rate, personally in the lab I use imaging systems with much wider DR).

No working with Nikon is required to refute DxO's claim of 14.8 stops that has been echoed by many. Merely a knowledge of how they arrived at that number. Their Screen DR measures the EV range which the sensor is capable of recording. Their Print DR is a number derived by calculation, a theoretical reduction of the image to 8 MP. While that is useful for comparison purposes, it is incorrect to state that 14.8 stops of EV can be captured by the sensor - if you try, you'll clip highlights or block shadows, or both.




Billybob said:


> Ah, we do agree on this point. After reading elsewhere about other features that have been crippled on the 6DMII, I plan to cancel my pre-order.



Ahhh yes, the 'crippled' argument. Well, you're welcome to make your own value judgments. Canon isn't going to lose sleep over your decision not to buy one.


----------



## CanonCams (Jun 30, 2017)

How quickly do the reviews tend to start coming out?


----------



## SecureGSM (Jun 30, 2017)

Scyrene,
Thanks for such an elaborate reply. Just a note: it appears that you have replied to a comment by Sharlin, not me.
My position remains very simple and straight forward: 5D level body suits better my style of shooting. 
The offered AF points spread in 6D II is not adequate for my projects. 



scyrene said:


> Sharlin said:
> 
> 
> > StudentOfLight said:
> ...


----------



## Orangutan (Jun 30, 2017)

ricky_005 said:


> I'll pass, better options from other manufactures.....



Specific examples, please.


----------



## Orangutan (Jun 30, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Sarpedon said:
> 
> 
> > There's really no need to be snide and condescending toward a perfectly innocent expression of opinion.
> ...


Actually, I figured you were pointing out that low-res was adequate for u-t00b, the likely target of most DSLR video. ;D


----------



## ctrl (Jun 30, 2017)

I´m not sure that I get it... The 4K timelapse, is it really possible to make continous [email protected] without sound?

For me that would be ok as sound can be recorded on a separate device.


----------



## Ryananthony (Jun 30, 2017)

ctrl said:


> I´m not sure that I get it... The 4K timelapse, is it really possible to make continous [email protected] without sound?
> 
> For me that would be ok as sound can be recorded on a separate device.



No, it would shoot 8mp jpeg stills at up to 6.5 fps, then merged into a video clip. Feel free to correct me if I'm wrong.


----------



## Talys (Jun 30, 2017)

Well, it looks like whatever else people may like or not about 6D2, it's already an Amazon hit -

https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Camera-Photo-DSLR-Cameras/zgbs/photo/3017941/ref=zg_bs_nav_p_1_p

6D2 is the #3 bestselling DSLR. There are no Nikon bodies that are over $500 on the top 20 (the $500+ kits both come with 18-55 and 70-300 lenses).

The top 10 are:

#1 T6 kit $499
#2 D3400 kit $497
#3 6D Mark II Body $1,999
#4 T5 Kit $349
#5 D3300 Kit $447
#6 5D Mark IV Body $3,299
#7 D3400 kit (2 lens) $597
#8 70D Body $799
#9 D3300 Kit (2 lens) $495
#10 80D Body $1,099
#11 6D Mark 1 Body $1,399
#12 T6 Kit $359
#13 5D Mark 3 $2,299
#14 D5500 $727
#15 D5300 $489

One thing that's pretty easy to glean from Amazon bestsellers list is that price point is critically important. I'm actually shocked that all top 20 are Canon/Nikon, and that all of the pricier bodies are Canon.


----------



## Talys (Jun 30, 2017)

Hmm. Don't know if this is Canon Canada only, but I noticed a pre-order bonus:

http://files.kerrisdalecameras.com/6DMK2_Preorder_Gift.pdf

Order before July 31, and get a free Eos Waterproof Jacket and Kwanon Long Sleeve T-Shirt. The jacket actually looks pretty nice.


----------



## -pekr- (Jun 30, 2017)

I have read the following comment on DPReview re DPAF:

"-2.5ev VS -4ev, and face tracking seems a little bit laggier than 5d4 according to the DPR hands-on video."

Now if true, is there any technical reason, while DPAF should be less performant/sensitive, when it does not use PDAF sensor from 80D, but the chip alone, along with DIGIC, which should be faster than the one from 5DIV?


----------



## Deepboy (Jun 30, 2017)

CanonCams said:


> http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/6d-mk-ii.htm



It does say that 6DII has "Prontor-Compur (PC) sync terminal" and that the X-Synch speed is "not specified"...i think poor old Ken is not up to date


----------



## Aglet (Jun 30, 2017)

quod said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > No camera is gong to have a *big* boost in sensor quality over the 6D. Sensor technology has pretty much stalled in the last 5 years and it is all about compromises.
> ...



I know 2 pro photogs who have convinced themselves their next body is a FF Sony ML a7-something unless the 6d2 IQs like a 5d4 or better.
With the Sony they can continue to use the Canon glass they're comfortable with and have invested in while greatly improving overall IQ ability over Canon FF.

I'm sofa-king happy I made the move (to Anything But Canon) years ago.
I really don't know why people have such an irrational emotional attachment to the current under-performing overlords of imaging when the whole litter of underdogs outperforms them by a considerable margin.
If you need better raw files, ABC cameras provide that.
Canon still does make good-enough, fun-to-use, overpriced, optical toys tho.


----------



## Aglet (Jun 30, 2017)

Don Haines said:


> ShootTheStars12 said:
> 
> 
> > Reposting this now that the camera has been officially announced:
> ...



or you can get a sturdy tripod and put a Pentax K-1 on it and make use of the built in GPS and Astro-Tracer function to take longer exposures without star trails.

GET the K-1


----------



## Aglet (Jun 30, 2017)

Talys said:


> Hmm. Don't know if this is Canon Canada only, but I noticed a pre-order bonus:
> 
> http://files.kerrisdalecameras.com/6DMK2_Preorder_Gift.pdf
> 
> Order before July 31, and get a free Eos Waterproof Jacket and Kwanon Long Sleeve T-Shirt. The jacket actually looks pretty nice.



you're getting soaked for a mediocre camera, the least they can do is provide a waterproof jacket.


----------



## epsiloneri (Jun 30, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> The latest iPhone doesn't have a headphone jack, either.


Indeed, like the iphone, the 6DII could in principle provide sound over bluetooth. Any idea if that's the case? If it is, I'm sure it's mentioned somewhere in the user's manual.


----------



## timglowik (Jun 30, 2017)

I know i am talking bad about canon often in this forum .. I just can't help myself .. sorry guys 
So if you're a canon fanboy just skip this post .. don't want to offend you.

I am not getting this one for sure .. no real improvement for me in comparison to the existing 6D ... AF-Spread is a joke, still no 2nd SD Card, no 4k .. All important features in 2017 for a semi professional camera .. 
Nikons D610 or D750 offer two SD-card slots and similar megapixels, no 4k also - but price is way cheaper.. Sony has a better af spread, 4k .. 

For me - if it had at least the 2nd SD-card slot I would have thought about it .. most important feature if you expirienced loosing images before .. and no, it was not a cheap and old sd card  

Looking now forward to sonys next releases - end of the year I will start changing from canon to sony if no mirracle is happening .. Just tested the a9 the other day .. loving it


----------



## bollo (Jun 30, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Billybob said:
> 
> 
> > In short, the point I was addressing was the implicit claim that if the 6DMII's DR was the same as the 80D, that would not be such a bad thing. Well, it certainly wouldn't be good. It's only okay if you're fine with mediocrity.
> ...



Twenty one thousand and seventy-five posts, 99.9% of them with the same snotty attitude and still you think it makes you look clever. The scale of stupidity and lack of self awareness leaves me in awe.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jun 30, 2017)

dak723 said:


> quod said:
> 
> 
> > Mikehit said:
> ...



It's true, that DR argument was so voraciously pushed by DXO and DPReview it has stuck past it's date.

https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Canon--EOS-1D-X-Mark-II-versus-Sony-A7R-II-versus-Nikon-D810___1071_1035_963


----------



## LesC (Jun 30, 2017)

With regard to 4K or lack thereof, all depends how important it is to you. I'm not a videographer or vlogger so only use the video option for short sequences on holidays. Even then, I'll only view the footage on my PC and I don't have a 4K monitor so it's at HD.

I have a 48" 4K TV and the difference between HD broadcasts & say 4K content on Netflix is marginal and depends much more on the subject matter, lighting, how it was filmed etc. So some HD content will look just as good as 4K anyway. So lack of 4K doesn't really bother me. 

More importantly though, for most people, myself included, if you've bought into a system & have lots of Canon glass, you're going to stick with it rather than changing everything. So for Canon shooters wanting full frame who cant or don't want to spend more for the 5D MK4 it's the only choice. I'm happy with it. I'll wait for a while to see reviews just to make sure there's no unexpected problems & then I'll upgrade. Until then, my original 6D serves me just fine.


----------



## Keith_Reeder (Jun 30, 2017)

Aglet said:


> I'm sofa-king happy I made the move (to Anything But Canon) years ago.



And yet you're still here, being a trolling PITA.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 30, 2017)

bollo said:


> Twenty one thousand and seventy-five posts, 99.9% of them with the same snotty attitude and still you think it makes you look clever. The scale of stupidity and lack of self awareness leaves me in awe.



Two posts and you've shown yourself to be, as you so aptly put it, an



bollo said:


> insufferable arsetwat



Welcome to the forums! Hopefully you'll gain some maturity, stick around, and become a contributing member who provides some insights and assistance to others. 

It's not very likely, since 



bollo said:


> insufferable arsetwats



rarely do, but there's always hope.


----------



## Keith_Reeder (Jun 30, 2017)

bollo said:


> Twenty one thousand and seventy-five posts, 99.9% of them with the same snotty attitude and still you think it makes you look clever.



As a matter of fact, there's quite a lot or empirical evidence to suggest that he _is_.

You not agreeing with him doesn't change that. 

It _does_ make you look a bit whiny and petulant, though.


----------



## rfdesigner (Jun 30, 2017)

I haven't seen anyone else mention this: 


It's got anti-flicker


So perhaps looking like a great camera for shooting your kids indoor sports, amngst other things.


----------



## Keith_Reeder (Jun 30, 2017)

CanoKnight said:


> Keep repackaging the same sh** Canon, and watch Sony walk away with a bigger and bigger chunk of marketshare.



Been hearing this for _years_, and yet Canon sells more and more, and Sony sells less and less.

Still, don't let the facts get in the way of a good troll, eh?


----------



## IglooEater (Jun 30, 2017)

Billybob said:


> A lot of people, myself included, question DXO's scale. However, whether or not the number is valid, the D810's DR is truly industry leading.



Yo sure about that. Funny, the 6D actually has (marginally) better DR than the D810 in the situations where I actually find myself lacking dr.
http://www.photonstophotos.net/Charts/PDR.htm
https://www.dxomark.com/Cameras/Compare/Side-by-side/Nikon-D810-versus-Canon-EOS-6D___963_836


----------



## MayaTlab (Jun 30, 2017)

epsiloneri said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > The latest iPhone doesn't have a headphone jack, either.
> ...



I'm pretty certain that Canon would have said it loud and clear if it had audio Bluetooth. If they can manage lag well enough, it might actually be preferable in some situations to not have a cable in the way. 
But regardless, the 6DII isn't a very good video camera anyway, even for 1080p. A funny thing is that it's actually got a worse codec implementation than the first one !


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 30, 2017)

Aglet said:


> I'm sofa-king happy I made the move (to Anything But Canon) years ago.
> I really don't know why people have such an irrational emotional attachment to the current under-performing overlords of imaging when the whole litter of underdogs outperforms them by a considerable margin.
> If you need better raw files, ABC cameras provide that.
> Canon still does make good-enough, fun-to-use, overpriced, optical toys tho.



Those who are so proud of themselves for learning their ABCs sometimes seem to believe it's AATS. Meanwhile, most people understand that it's not all about the sensor, it's about the capabilities of the *imaging system*. 

The fact is, people generally buy what best meets their needs. It's not an 'irrational emotional attachment', it's a thoroughly rational choice to buy the system that best meets one's needs. Apparently, you cannot seem to grasp the simple fact that _your own personal_ needs differ from others. In other words, what you _really_ don't understand is reality. 

That's ok, though...reality will go on about its business even if you fail to grasp it.


----------



## StudentOfLight (Jun 30, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Aglet said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sofa-king happy I made the move (to Anything But Canon) years ago.
> ...


In the alternate reality where Canon makes the 6D Mark-EtDominator, do they sell more and make more money and have happier customers?


----------



## reef58 (Jun 30, 2017)

I am not really sure what you mean irrational emotional attachment. I use Canon because it does what I need it to do. I like the selection of lenses.

I shoot landscape usually on a tripod. What will I gain buy switching to a "better" system? I don't shoot video, I don't shoot weddings. Although it seems to be depised my favorite lens is the Canon 24-105 F4mk1. It just works. My second favorite lens is my 16-35 F4. So if you convince me to sell my Canon bodies (2) Canon lenses (7). What do I buy and how will it make my pictures look better? What will I gain by going through the trouble? It must be something special, but I cannot envision. Please advise.



Aglet said:


> quod said:
> 
> 
> > Mikehit said:
> ...


----------



## rfdesigner (Jun 30, 2017)

Talys said:


> Well, it looks like whatever else people may like or not about 6D2, it's already an Amazon hit -
> 
> https://www.amazon.com/Best-Sellers-Camera-Photo-DSLR-Cameras/zgbs/photo/3017941/ref=zg_bs_nav_p_1_p
> 
> ...



Wow

1st non-Canon/Nikon: Fujifilm No. 36
1st Sony No. 59

Canon are just so *******! : 


EDIT: not quite so good in the UK, Pentax are well up here, and the 6DII is "only" at No. 28.


----------



## Sporgon (Jun 30, 2017)

reef58 said:


> I am not really sure what you mean irrational emotional attachment. I use Canon because it does what I need it to do. I like the selection of lenses.
> 
> I shoot landscape usually on a tripod. What will I gain buy switching to a "better" system? I don't shoot video, I don't shoot weddings. Although it seems to be depised my favorite lens is the Canon 24-105 F4mk1. It just works. My second favorite lens is my 16-35 F4. So if you convince me to sell my Canon bodies (2) Canon lenses (7). What do I buy and how will it make my pictures look better? What will I gain by going through the trouble? It must be something special, but I cannot envision. Please advise.
> 
> ...



The irony is that so much of your type of photography (and mine) is down to post processing anyway. As long as the camera system can capture the required data your good to go. And let's face it, most "serious" camera systems have been able to deal with this since around 2005. The rest is just agonising over minutiae.


----------



## CanonCams (Jun 30, 2017)

Aglet said:


> quod said:
> 
> 
> > Mikehit said:
> ...



You made the move yet still post on a canon forum.

Why?


----------



## CanonCams (Jun 30, 2017)

bollo said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Billybob said:
> ...



So says the guy with 2 posts?


----------



## Khalai (Jun 30, 2017)

I find those "AF is so clumped up and it's useless" argument hysterically hilarious. While it's truly APS-C 80D AF module, AF points spread is actually not that smaller than e.g. 5D III or 1D X. You can still comfortably focus on the thirds node. Hell, I can focus on the golden ratio node with my AF-wise mediocre 6D. Yes, it could be better, but do you seriously expect AF system from 1DX2/D5 to make it into the cheapest FF body? People are too greedy - wanting 1500 € body with 6000 € worth of paper specs...

People are so spoilt by MILC AF points spread, they forgot it's actually quite expensive and physically demading to make TTL PDAF array to cover most of the viewfinder. Even those MILC spread are usually PDAF mostly in center and CDAF in the outer regions. If you truly need that, you can use 80% coverage of DPAF using LV. Or simply change systems, if that'll will suit you better. But bitching and moaning about Canon this and Canon that, while still clinging to your L lenses and Canon bodies is quite annoying and immature.

Yes, 6D is rather average, not bleeding edge, not revolutionary and definitely not pro-specced camera. You want bleeding edge technology? Go to Sony (and cope with its ergonomics, I know I tried...). You want 4K video? Go to GH5/XT2. But guess what - Canon will still probably sell 6D2 by the bucketloads making many people happy creating beautiful images.

Oh right, I almost forgot: "Canon is surely *******, everybody jump ship and smash your L lens collection into smithereens"


----------



## dak723 (Jun 30, 2017)

CanonCams said:


> Aglet said:
> 
> 
> > quod said:
> ...



T-R-O-L-L

Please don't feed the trolls.


----------



## romanr74 (Jun 30, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> The fact is, people generally buy what best meets their needs. It's not an 'irrational emotional attachment', it's a thoroughly rational choice to buy the system that best meets one's needs. Apparently, you cannot seem to grasp the simple fact that _your own personal_ needs differ from others. In other words, what you _really_ don't understand is reality.



Easily the most hilarious post ever!


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 30, 2017)

CanonCams said:


> Aglet said:
> 
> 
> > _...trolling..._
> ...



He just wants to get us all pumped up waiting for the useful and relevant photos he plans to take with his new 6DII. For those lacking the forum historical perspective, Aglet is a big proponent of lens cap photography. He's even blogged about it!



Aglet said:


> ..and now you can finally see the useful relevance of actually shooting with a lens cap on ... (see my tech blog if you forgot)



'The useful relevance of actually shooting with a lens cap on'. Love it! Can't wait for the lens cap shots with the 6DII, and those with the ABC Sony A9...


----------



## transpo1 (Jun 30, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > smithcon said:
> ...



Check again: it helps when you choose the right resolution


----------



## Don Haines (Jun 30, 2017)

Every thread about the 6D2 gets taken over by a bunch of trolls and those responding to them.

YOU DO NOT GET RID OF TROLLS BY ARGUING WITH THEM! That is how you encourage them.

If you want them to go away, then STOP RESPONDING!


----------



## tron (Jun 30, 2017)

Aglet said:


> ...
> 
> I'm sofa-king happy I made the move (to *Anything But Canon*) years ago.


Yes! I hear that this brand ("Anything But Canon") is a very good one. Very qood in low and high iso, fps, ergonomics and with a great selection of lenses. ;D


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 30, 2017)

tron said:


> Aglet said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



Dude, your brand sucks and has none of those. You need to switch to the EBC brand – "Everything But Canon" – to get all that and a bag of chips!


----------



## unfocused (Jun 30, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> CanonCams said:
> 
> 
> > Aglet said:
> ...



Dude, you are way behind the times. No need for lens caps anymore, we have the PC-E2, which opens up a whole new realm: Camera Protective Cloth Photography.


----------



## StudentOfLight (Jun 30, 2017)

unfocused said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > CanonCams said:
> ...


Have you heard of the magic cloth technique?


----------



## transpo1 (Jun 30, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > transpo1 said:
> ...



P.S. If you're having bandwidth issues, Neuro, you should contact your provider


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jun 30, 2017)

StudentOfLight said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > Dude, you are way behind the times. No need for lens caps anymore, we have the PC-E2, which opens up a whole new realm: Camera Protective Cloth Photography.
> ...



Canon marketing the PC-E2 as merely a protective cloth, instead of a multipurpose photography tool...now _that's_ a marketing blunder!


----------



## SecureGSM (Jun 30, 2017)

Canon Magic Carpet?



neuroanatomist said:


> StudentOfLight said:
> 
> 
> > unfocused said:
> ...


----------



## Keith_Reeder (Jun 30, 2017)

reef58 said:


> I am not really sure what you mean irrational emotional attachment. I use Canon because it does what I need it to do.



As do we all. It's a tedious, transparent, predictable trolling trick to ascribe an emotional or psychological failing or weakness to what is actually a logical, rationalised decision.

Makes them feel better about themselves, I suppose...


----------



## Keith_Reeder (Jun 30, 2017)

rfdesigner said:


> EDIT: not quite so good in the UK, Pentax are well up here



They're nice enough cameras (assuming you're not too fussed about AF accuracy or speed) but a prime reason they sell in the UK is that local camera shops can get stocks of Pentax, whereas Canon only supports the biggest chains/stores in the UK. 

So you can walk into a local store in the UK, fondle a Pentax, and then do the crappy trick of buying one from Amazon...

(I don't much like _that_ about Canon - but then again the only camera outlet near me is the Newcastle "London Camera Exchange" store - and they do Canon anyway).


----------



## Jack Douglas (Jun 30, 2017)

Me thinks it's Dilbert reincarnated. For now I'm out of this thread, so no feeding from me.

Jack


----------



## tron (Jun 30, 2017)

Jack Douglas said:


> Me thinks it's Dilbert reincarnated. For now I'm out of this thread, so no feeding from me.
> 
> Jack


Or ... cloned to many copies ;D ;D ;D


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 30, 2017)

Remarkable. 
I have lost count of how many people there are heavily criticising the 6D2, and they have a total number of posts lower than the IQ of the average 2 year old. 
So I ask myself what makes them so insecure that they even come onto the Canon forums let alone feel the need to criticise a camera they have no intention of buying and have often bought into competitor's systems. 

Insecure....so insecure.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jun 30, 2017)

*Re: Canon Officially Announces the EOS 6D Mark II *



tron said:


> Jack Douglas said:
> 
> 
> > Me thinks it's Dilbert reincarnated. For now I'm out of this thread, so no feeding from me.
> ...



No Aglet isn't Dilbert. Aglet is Canadian and 'sells' prints out of an animal feed store. He reappears every time there is a new release and pans it saying how happy he is with his camera de jour.

He was one of the most vocal critics of the 5D MkII and his inability to take a correctly exposed picture with it because he insists on using M mode and doesn't know what he is doing lead to excessive shadows lifting, which he said resulted in unacceptable IQ from scenes with as little as 5 stops of DR. He was pre DRone, he was the 'banding' zealot.

Anyway, there is a point to my post. Most of us take IQ way too seriously. I am currently in Hawaii and there is no shortage of photo galleries, I was in one the other day and overheard the photographers technique for choosing his biggest prints done on plexiglass with back illumination. He prints his favourites at small sizes and sees what sells, he then makes bigger prints of the most popular and repeats the process. Pride of place in his showroom with a $2,600 price ticket was a 60" print of a sunset (I hate sunsets) with some rock formations in the foreground.

To a person who earns their living as a photographer the print was horrific, yet it was his best seller. It was clearly taken with a fisheye and defished and you could tell that because the banding and noise in the lifted shadow areas followed those contours. I'd guess it was taken with a Canon from over five years ago because it did have a 'look', not least of poor processing techniques.

But again, whilst this might seem critical it isn't, we are the fools for worrying too much about minutiae, he is out there doing it with the gear he has and people love it, it was his best seller and he is a pro photographer with his own gallery.


----------



## transpo1 (Jun 30, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> Remarkable.
> I have lost count of how many people there are heavily criticising the 6D2, and they have a total number of posts lower than the IQ of the average 2 year old.
> So I ask myself what makes them so insecure that they even come onto the Canon forums let alone feel the need to criticise a camera they have no intention of buying and have often bought into competitor's systems.
> 
> Insecure....so insecure.



Really? I think the Canon fanboy tendency on this forum to vehemently defend even mild criticism of their favorite company reveals much more insecurity.


----------



## Mikehit (Jun 30, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > Remarkable.
> ...



And yet again you confuse 'I have no real interest in this but I understand why they did not do it' with 'fanboy' and 'vehemently defend'. 
No-one has denied 4k will become much more common (even with Canon) - what many (including myself) have done is ridicule claims that Canon don't know what they are doing and that Canon is *******. Unfortunately many like yourself are incapable of understanding the subtlety of that position.


----------



## transpo1 (Jun 30, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > Mikehit said:
> ...



Your position is not subtle at all- as you said, you and others here "ridicule" those who disagree with you. Actually, I think a lot of the 4Kers have a subtle position that you don't get, which is: rooting for their home team Canon to include a feature that would sell more cameras (yes, even more).


----------



## Khalai (Jun 30, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > transpo1 said:
> ...



I don't see any point criticizing lack of 4K in any camera in particular. There are plenty of 4K options elsewhere, anybody can buy those and let the free market decide whether Canon made a mistake or not. No reason of bashing it to the death on the CR forums.


----------



## dak723 (Jul 1, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > transpo1 said:
> ...



Alas, you prove the point you argue against. I think we all understand that some folks "root' for Canon. A mature adult does not "root" for a company as if it were a sports team. A mature adult chooses the products that work best for them. As long as the company is succesful, a mature adult doesn't care if Canon, Nikon or Sony sells more cameras. A mature adult says things like, "I wish this camera had 4K and since it doesn't I will look elsewhere." The anti-Canon trolls write, "Canon is ******* and anyone getting this crippled piece if crap with 4 year old technology is just being duped." Someone on one of the recent threads wrote that he wanted the low pass filter removed from the 6D, otherwise his buddies will be able boast greater sharpness on their Sonys and Nikons. Talk about a juvenile reason to want a particular spec! 

It's funny, but my brother is a pretty good photographer, and when we discuss photo related matters, we never discuss DR, Sharpness, AF points, Noise, or any camera spec. We discuss composition, atmosphere, lighting, subject matter. In other words, the things that matter.


----------



## Aglet (Jul 1, 2017)

Keith_Reeder said:


> Aglet said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sofa-king happy I made the move (to Anything But Canon) years ago.
> ...



OMG! Someone _cloned_ Neuro!
Or, more likely, programmed a less-bombastic AI-bot emulator. 

I'm here to bring an experienced and differently-biased perspective to those who value it.
Obviously not YOU, Mr. Reeder.

here, distract yourself with this bit of Canon marketing theme music.

https://youtu.be/Gcj34XixuYg?t=64


----------



## Aglet (Jul 1, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Aglet said:
> 
> 
> > I'm sofa-king happy I made the move (to Anything But Canon) years ago.
> ...



Apparently, you missed the point. 
I bet that's the first time that's happened, eh? 

The POINT, Neuro, is to encourage others who don't like Canon's IQ, or other features or lack thereof, to try any other body or system that better suits what they want.

I did, and couldn't be happier to be rid of those noisy, stripey raw files.
Maybe someone wants 4k or different AF features.
Canon's "system" is not so superior that they're gonna lose out if they change systems. FWIW, I can only recommend Canon's service works well when needed.
Otherwise the rest of the hardware; flashes, lenses, etc., is NOT superior to other options. It's just different and it does have a pretty wide range so if your NEED a TS17mm AND the best IQ, buy the Canon lens and put it on a Sony A7.
The heart of Canon's system, the sensor... IMO. SUCKS. That's my gripe. I kept a whole bucket of 580EXIIs cuz they work great for me.

Shoot with something else and see what you're missing... unless you're lacking in _neuro-plasticity._
If there's no difference to you I'm not forcing you to relinquish your mediocre gear choice if you're comfortable with the compromises.


----------



## Aglet (Jul 1, 2017)

reef58 said:


> I am not really sure what you mean irrational emotional attachment. I use Canon because it does what I need it to do. I like the selection of lenses.
> 
> I shoot landscape usually on a tripod. What will I gain buy switching to a "better" system? I don't shoot video, I don't shoot weddings. Although it seems to be depised my favorite lens is the Canon 24-105 F4mk1. It just works. My second favorite lens is my 16-35 F4. So if you convince me to sell my Canon bodies (2) Canon lenses (7). What do I buy and how will it make my pictures look better? What will I gain by going through the trouble? It must be something special, but I cannot envision. Please advise.



if you're content with your Canon gear, my suggestion does not apply to you. 
Some seem very DIScontent with Canon bodies.. To those I'm saying, "Try something else!"
I did. I missed nothing about the "Canon system."
In fact, I discovered a lot of other features and benefits in other systems that are missing in the "Canon system."


----------



## Aglet (Jul 1, 2017)

Sporgon said:


> reef58 said:
> 
> 
> > I am not really sure what you mean irrational emotional attachment. I use Canon because it does what I need it to do. I like the selection of lenses.
> ...



Mostly true, Sporgon.
See above.


----------



## Aglet (Jul 1, 2017)

CanonCams said:


> You made the move yet still post on a canon forum.
> Why?



see above


----------



## Aglet (Jul 1, 2017)

tron said:


> Aglet said:
> 
> 
> > ...
> ...



you're catching on, but the irony's on you


----------



## Isaacheus (Jul 1, 2017)

Sporgon said:


> reef58 said:
> 
> 
> > I am not really sure what you mean irrational emotional attachment. I use Canon because it does what I need it to do. I like the selection of lenses.
> ...



Haven't looked through all the posts (cause lots of back and forth) - with this camera not being able to capture 4k at all, where do you stand with this compared to say the a7r2 that can? I feel this statement kinda vindicates a lot of the complaints about this camera from others. Apologies if I have a mis-interpreted your meaning


----------



## transpo1 (Jul 1, 2017)

dak723 said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > Mikehit said:
> ...



I agree with you but most of the fanboy posts here are based on things like "Canon sells more cameras" so they don't need x feature. So by your words most of the fanboys are not mature adults.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jul 1, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> I agree with you but most of the fanboy posts here are based on things like "Canon sells more cameras" so they don't need x feature. So by your words most of the fanboys are not mature adults.



So it's your contention that stating facts makes one immature? Good luck defending that one... 

I will say, the 'fanboy' moniker is rather offensive, but at least you phrased the argument correctly, if your pronoun is applied directly (i.e., Canon sells more cameras so Canon doesn't need feature x). For example, many on CR claimed that the 5DIII needed more low ISO DR to compete against the D800/D810 and a7R/II. But the fact is, Canon didn't need more low ISO DR – the 5DIII outsold all of the competitors' counterparts. I haven't seen people here state, "Canon sells more cameras than anyone else, so _individuals_ don't need feature x." But certainly those who lack proper reading comprehension skills have interpreted statements incorrectly to mean just that.


----------



## transpo1 (Jul 1, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > I agree with you but most of the fanboy posts here are based on things like "Canon sells more cameras" so they don't need x feature. So by your words most of the fanboys are not mature adults.
> ...



No more offensive then any of the snide comments you've made. Selling more cameras is a "might makes right" argument- it's like arguing that Imperial Japan had the most powerful Navy in the Pacific so whatever they did was right. One could call it Facist, perhaps. 

And I noticed you ignored the post where the correct, higher than 1080p video resolution (fact) on Kai's video was pointed out to you- so either you were being sneaky in choosing the wrong res on purpose or you have serious bandwidth issues. Is that your MO, to ignore points you lose?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jul 1, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> No more offensive then any of the snide comments you've made. Selling more cameras is a "might makes right" argument- it's like arguing that Imperial Japan had the most powerful Navy in the Pacific so whatever they did was right. One could call it Facist, perhaps.



Fascist, seriously? Get a grip. One could call you an arrogant ass, perhaps. 

No, it's not a 'might makes right' argument. It's a factual argument. Including features – any feature, even 'free' firmware features – costs money. If a manufacturer chooses to omit a feature, and still outsells the relevant competition, they have increased their profits, which for a for-profit company is right. It's sad that you can't grasp these simple concepts, and feel the need to resort to an extremely offensive allusion of fascism. 




transpo1 said:


> And I noticed you ignored the post where the correct video resolution on Kai's video was pointed out to you- so either you were being sneaky in choosing the wrong res on purpose or you have serious bandwidth issues. Is that your MO, to ignore points you lose?



I ignored _your_ post. Apparently you failed to notice that you were not the first to correct my error. Apparently you also failed to notice that I acknowledged the correction, and thanked the member who provided it. Your inability to read carefully, and your concomitant failure to notice facts, is not my problem. 

Between your inability to apprehend simple concepts, and more importantly your inappropriately offensive attitude, I won't be responding further to your asinine inanities.


----------



## Orangutan (Jul 1, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> Selling more cameras is a "might makes right" argument


No, I'm afraid you COMPLETELY misunderstand the argument, no one is saying that more sales means an objectively better body. It's more along these lines:

[list type=decimal]
[*]Each camera has a certain set of features, and comes at a certain price
[*]Each style of photography places demands more on some features than on others
[*]There is no objectively "best" camera: each photographer (buyer) must choose which features are important enough to their style of photography spend money on
[*]Because it's so subjective, there's no perfect way to compare; however, there is an imperfect way, and that's to measure how many people choose to spend their money on a particular brand or model
[/list]

Putting that all together, we see that: more people buy Canon ILC's than any other brand. This means that those people have subjectively decided that Canon is a good fit for their particular style of photography. That's all it means.


We would all like the best features of all brands to be combined into one body, but that won't happen. The various sellers offer us their wares, and we can decide how to spend our money. We can accept this reality, or we can live in a fantasy world.


----------



## Aglet (Jul 1, 2017)

Orangutan said:


> ..Putting that all together, we see that: more people buy Canon ILC's than any other brand. This means that those people have subjectively decided that Canon is a good fit for their particular style of photography. That's all it means...



That could also merely mean that Canon does more aggressive marketing.
Canon DOES more aggressive marketing. Talk to a camera store manager.

When's the last time you saw a Pentax ad?
How many Canon ads have you seen in that same period?
Nikon?
Sony?
Olympus?
Fuji?
iPhone?...

one could pretty likely correlate advertising intensity with market share.
... cuz it sure aint related to technical merit in most items... 8-\

FWIW, let's say I had a Canon 60D and a few lenses, maybe one or 2 of their FF EFs...
and someone came along and said, "You can have this 6D2 or this Pentax K-1 or a Nikon D750." 
I'd choose the Pentax.
Why?... Cuz I know what it can do and the potential within it available to exploit. I would not be hampered by an attachment to already owning Canon gear. I'd get me some Pentax glass and explore all those things Canon and Nikon don't do with their cameras.

Paradigm shift. It's enlightening. 
Paradigm shift. It seems to frighten Canon owners.

r


----------



## -pekr- (Jul 1, 2017)

I would like to ask something practical, using this forum to get an advice, if you don't mind for a second 

Well, when first reviews appear, for any new Canon DSLR, I almost feel buyer's remorse. Later on, when the situation calms down, you get yourself your needs narrowed to looking for a solid workhorse, not a bunch of gadgets, life gets somehow easier 

Some 6DII previews led me to sort out, what is really important for our wedding/portrait/newborn/studio photography:


*Good low light performance* - that's why we want to move to FF, right? E.g. the ability to shoot wedding ceremonies with less flash usage. Bumping our 70D ISO will not make it. I am bit worried with some initial remarks about the output not being on par with the 5DIV. The same chip size, lower resolution, the photodiodes should be larger and hence more capable of having better characteristics, no?
*Good focusing* - in a studio, you can repeat certain situations at your will. Not so during the weddings - things happen just once, and happen fast. I am bit worried, that fpoints spread of the 6DII will require almost constant recomposing. Well, maybe it is just another hyped over-reaction. But that leads me back to the 5DIV - the joystick. I have no direct experience here. Please, do you find it being a useful feature, in a sense, that you can't kind of live without it and/or you changed your way of how you focus, keeping an eye to the viewfinder, quickly changing fpoints? On the 6D II, you could use arrows, but I don't do so on the 70D, as it is kind of slow in practice.
*Dual slot* - I am reserved on this one. I once lost my photos. Question marks started to appear instead of image previews. It was not recoverable on a PC either. I can't imagine, something like that happens for a client, e.g. during the wedding. It did NOT happen again to me, but during the long day shoot, I am unconsciously nervous indeed.

 
Now what I think is, that 6DII is going to be a solid workhorse. All our previous APS-C camerawas were, except me hating 60D, not sure why 

With the priorities above, I debate myself, if I should eventually up the game and look into the 5DIV instead. I know it costs more, but so do blurred or missed photos for your client.

_(sorry for the cross-post from DPR, just trying to get as much advice as possible)_


----------



## Khalai (Jul 1, 2017)

-pekr- said:


> I would like to ask something practical, using this forum to get an advice, if you don't mind for a second
> 
> Well, when first reviews appear, for any new Canon DSLR, I almost feel buyer's remorse. Later on, when the situation calms down, you get yourself your needs narrowed to looking for a solid workhorse, not a bunch of gadgets, life gets somehow easier
> 
> ...



Seems like 5D4 is just right for you as 6D2 does not meet your demands...


----------



## Sporgon (Jul 1, 2017)

Isaacheus said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > reef58 said:
> ...



Not sure if you're referring to my post here, and if you are I don't really understand what you mean. Reef58 said he shot landscapes with no interest in video and my post was related to that.

If you mean the a7r2 fits the bill for capturing the still data and can do 4K video as well - it's not of much benefit to someone who does no video ! 

Regarding 42 mp to 26 - just don't expect anyone else to see the difference in the images !


----------



## hbr (Jul 1, 2017)

Khalai said:


> -pekr- said:
> 
> 
> > I would like to ask something practical, using this forum to get an advice, if you don't mind for a second
> ...



+1. If you are doing professional work, you need a professional camera. The 6D series, while taking the same or close to the same quality photos, is not designed for professional work.


----------



## jeffa4444 (Jul 1, 2017)

Ive pre-ordered the 6D MKII. I dont use video period on DSLRs so the lack of 4K is irrelivent to me. The 45 point AF may well be centered in the central 1/3rd of the screen but going to live view and magnifying the image you can touch the screen to select the focus point which is perfectly fine for landscape and the respective aperture you want to use. 
Even with my 5DS shooting portraits I find I sometimes have to focus & recompose and its worked 90% of the time with my current 6D. 
Ive the EF100-400mm f4.5-5.6L IS USM MKII and the EF 1.4EX III so I was over the moon that I can use the 6D MKII down to f8 on up to 27 AF points with the central 9 cross type something I could not do on the present 6D. Sometimes I shoot with the 5DS in M Raw bringing the MP count down to 30MP just to reduce file sizes so the 26.3MP of the 6D MKII is a nice bump from the 6D if the subject matter doesnt require higher resolution. My one gripe is Canon has not added a second card slot which could have been a second SD slot surely the Digic 7 could have handled that and I dont think its a feature that would have robbed sales from the 5D MKIV which still has a superior AF system with multiple tracking options, better metering, shutter life, more robust construction, 4K video etc etc. that the 6D MKII doesnt have. 

Still Im looking forwards to the end of July and getting my hands on the camera in real-world shooting and retiring my faithful but well used 6D that others decryed but I found to be a reliable, hard working machine that paid me back financially way more that I paid for it.


----------



## hbr (Jul 1, 2017)

Orangutan said:


> transpo1 said:
> 
> 
> > Selling more cameras is a "might makes right" argument
> ...



My feelings exactly. I preordered the 6D2 as its cost and feature set are just right FOR ME. I couldn't care less what the other manufacturers are selling. If their cameras fit one's needs, then by all means switch and buy their equipment, just don't keep whining and bellyaching over and over about why Canon needs the feature set you need for the price you desire.


----------



## jeffa4444 (Jul 1, 2017)

Deva said:


> 4D said:
> 
> 
> > $A2548 here in Australia at Digidirect, which is actually cheaper than the US.
> ...


UK price includes 20% VAT the US price is minus sales tax.


----------



## Ladislav (Jul 1, 2017)

I was so terribly disappointed when I saw AF spread. Then I checked spread on 5D MK.III and it wasn't super exciting either. Neither is 5D MK. IV if you ask me. I probably just had too big expectations.


----------



## Khalai (Jul 1, 2017)

Ladislav said:


> I was so terribly disappointed when I saw AF spread. Then I checked spread on 5D MK.III and it wasn't super exciting either. Neither is 5D MK. IV if you ask me. I probably just had too big expectations.



All FF cameras have that clustered AF patterns. Even flagships are not THAT wide. People are just spoilt by 7D2 coverage (or APS-C in general) or MILC coverage.

It's overhyped hysteria, nothing more. 5D3/5D4 are not much wider/taller and nobody did mind until 6D2 came out. Welcome to the interwebs.


----------



## heimdall999 (Jul 1, 2017)

POLL: DID THE PRODUCT MANAGER OF 6DM2 LOOK FROM THE VIEWFINDER BEFORE ANNOUNCING IT? WHAT DO YOU THINK ? YES OR NO ?
(...about "AF Spread" problem)


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jul 1, 2017)

heimdall999 said:


> POLL: DID THE PRODUCT MANAGER OF 6DM2 LOOK FROM THE VIEWFINDER BEFORE ANNOUNCING IT? WHAT DO YOU THINK ? YES OR NO ?
> (...about "AF Spread" problem)



YES AND HE SAW THAT IT WAS GOOD. 
(...there is no problem, except apparently that your CAPS LOCK key is sticky)


----------



## CanonCams (Jul 1, 2017)

Aglet said:


> CanonCams said:
> 
> 
> > You made the move yet still post on a canon forum.
> ...



Trollish.


----------



## littleB (Jul 1, 2017)

I have been a Canon user since 2008, when I got 40D and 24-70 mk I. Since then I got 6 of L glass and a couple of TS-Es. Camera-wise I am now 6D original and M5 (with a couple of EF-Ms).
I really like the system, and I think this is the best system for me now, given the available glass I have already. Good ergonomics is a big plus for me.
Nikon and Sony are more expensive than Canon in my country and have worse service.

Got the M5 as a lightweight option for walking, but slightly disappointed by the pixel-level IQ even at ISO 100, its not the DR but rather some slight signs of noise.

I do stills only, mostly in strobist setups, so lack of 4k in some newer Canon bodies not bother me, I can live without it.
Also, I do not understand the 4k hype at all. To be able to tell 4k from 2k from 3 meters you need to have screen size at least 65", or better something like 100". Yeah, the viewing device makers need to keep their selling rate, and push 4k as one of selling features, but no much benefit to consumers out of it.

But the IQ is important to me, so I am waiting for a first reviews of 6D mk2 in this regard. To shallow AF spread is not what I expected, but it is still the same spread as on original 6D.
The new 6D mk2 will likely be the best option to fit my needs. If reviews disappoint me in IQ, I will consider the 5d mk4. I can easily afford the 6d, and with some additional efforts, 5d4. I just want my selection to be justified.


----------



## Sporgon (Jul 1, 2017)

littleB said:


> I have been a Canon user since 2008, when I got 40D and 24-70 mk I. Since then I got 6 of L glass and a couple of TS-Es. Camera-wise I am now 6D original and M5 (with a couple of EF-Ms).
> I really like the system, and I think this is the best system for me now, given the available glass I have already. Good ergonomics is a big plus for me.
> Nikon and Sony are more expensive than Canon in my country and have worse service.
> 
> ...



Not sure if you're working from raw, but if you are try setting your output size on the M5 closer to your 6D. I'd use 5250 pix on the long side, down from the native 6000. You'll probably then be quite happy


----------



## BeenThere (Jul 1, 2017)

The bloom is off the rose. With the official release of the 6D2, we now know the full feature set and have a lot of first look videos from those controlled Canon events. But now we are a month before the shipping date and maybe 6 weeks until there are some sensor performance reviews. I'm having post hype let down. 6 more weeks before critical data is available.


----------



## Orangutan (Jul 1, 2017)

Aglet said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > ..Putting that all together, we see that: more people buy Canon ILC's than any other brand. This means that those people have subjectively decided that Canon is a good fit for their particular style of photography. That's all it means...
> ...



Sony, Fuji and Apple surely have plenty of money for advertising. Nikon is hurting a bit now, but they weren't a few years ago when Canon pulled ahead.

I can't imagine the execs in Sony's camera division rejecting a marketing campaign because they don't want more market share and profit. Please explain that to me.


----------



## Orangutan (Jul 1, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> heimdall999 said:
> 
> 
> > POLL: DID THE PRODUCT MANAGER OF 6DM2 LOOK FROM THE VIEWFINDER BEFORE ANNOUNCING IT? WHAT DO YOU THINK ? YES OR NO ?
> ...



Looks a little tight to me. Whether that rises to the level of "problem" is subjective.


----------



## Khalai (Jul 1, 2017)

Orangutan said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > heimdall999 said:
> ...



Compare it to the 5D3. It's not THAT tight actually


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jul 1, 2017)

Orangutan said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > heimdall999 said:
> ...



I'll just repost my response from another thread. 



neuroanatomist said:


> Let's see...the 6DII has cross-type AF points with the same horizontal spread as the cross-type points on my 1D X, Canon's penultimate flagship camera costing over 3-times the price of the 6DII. Oh, and those lateral cross-type points on the 1D X need f/4...with an f/5.6 lens, such as when I put a 1.4x TC on my 600/4, the 1D X cross type points are restricted to the center three columns. If I put a 2x TC behind the 600/4, a 6DII would maintain 27 AF points with the full lateral spread of the AF array. My 1D X with an f/8 lens? One selectable point, smack in the middle.
> 
> If you'd prefer to compare to the 6D, the 6DII has the same horizontal spread, and adds a much wider vertical spread at the lateral edges, meaning unlike its predecessor, the 6DII has AF points very close the rule-of-thirds intersections.



Please, given the above, elaborate on what you feel is the nature of the 'problem', keeping in mind that when discussing the 6DII, we're talking about Canon's _entry-level_ full frame offering, with an AF sensor that in some respects surpasses Canon's penultimate $6800 flagship model.


----------



## Orangutan (Jul 1, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Having never used a 1DX I can only compare to my 70D, which seems to fill a bit more of the viewfinder. Of course, it's a crop, and has lower VF coverage. Seems like Pro cameras should have better coverage.


----------



## Khalai (Jul 1, 2017)

Orangutan said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Orangutan said:
> ...



Compare 7D2 with 1DX2. That expensive flagship is quite tight in this regard as well. There are economical, physical and optical limitations for TTL PDAF, which is why even the most advanced and expensive camera have rather smallish portion of VF covered with AF points. Yet up today, nobody had a problem. Now, there is an artifical witch-hunt on 6D2 AF pattern, while nobody gives a rat's ass about more expensive camera having horizontally smaller coverage with X-type. Not to mention f/8 capabilities.

Take a look at venerable D800/D800E for example, only the very center portion of AF points are actual X type, not to mention singular f/8 X-type in the very middle: http://imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d800/features03.htm

And nobody had a problem then.

D610 is very similar in that regard: http://imgsv.imaging.nikon.com/lineup/dslr/d610/img/features03/img_18.png

I don't see a problem with 6D II, some people have rather short memory as it seems by this hysteria...


----------



## Orangutan (Jul 1, 2017)

Khalai said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



See my previous post:



Orangutan said:


> Looks a little tight to me. *Whether that rises to the level of "problem" is subjective.*


----------



## Khalai (Jul 1, 2017)

Orangutan said:


> See my previous post:
> 
> 
> Orangutan said:
> ...



Right, I actually saw it. My post was more general response than per se just reply to you, because I find the whole affair rather ridiculous and overhyped. It will pass, it's just trolls will have some ammo for flamebaits


----------



## Orangutan (Jul 1, 2017)

Khalai said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > See my previous post:
> ...



Fair enough.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jul 1, 2017)

Orangutan said:


> Having never used a 1DX I can only compare to my 70D, which seems to fill a bit more of the viewfinder. Of course, it's a crop, and has lower VF coverage. Seems like Pro cameras should have better coverage.



The larger FF sensor means a larger mirror assembly, which necessitates a larger submirror, etc. While it is possible to further enhance the point spread, that would mean size/robustness increases of the mirror assembly that would make it approach medium format mirror box size. The optical situation is somewhat analogous to designing UWA lenses – compare the EF 11-24L to the EF-S 10-22mm. The submirror geometry also means it's somewhat easier to make an array wider than taller. 

The 7D/70D AF points actually have the same horizontal spread as the 1D X and actually a row taller vertical spread than the 1D X. The big difference in AF point location with the 1D X / 5DIII is that they have rectangular arrays with the corners near the rule-of-thirds points, whereas the 7D/70D have a diamond shape with the corners absent. In that sense, the rectangular array of the 6DII is a _major_ improvement in AF point spread.


----------



## scyrene (Jul 1, 2017)

SecureGSM said:


> Scyrene,
> Thanks for such an elaborate reply. Just a note: it appears that you have replied to a comment by Sharlin, not me.
> My position remains very simple and straight forward: 5D level body suits better my style of shooting.
> The offered AF points spread in 6D II is not adequate for my projects.
> ...


 
I was using their comment to point out the problem with your statement. As Sharlin pointed out (and others in later replies in this thread), the spread is largely due to the restrictions of the physics of this type of AF module, whereas you implied that it was a deliberately restrictive decision on Canon's part (a "silly" one).

Newsflash: the traditional AF points (i.e. not DPAF) on a FF sensor can't be placed as close to the edge as with a smaller sensor. That's just how it is.


----------



## scyrene (Jul 1, 2017)

rfdesigner said:


> Talys said:
> 
> 
> > Well, it looks like whatever else people may like or not about 6D2, it's already an Amazon hit -
> ...



I get the impression Amazon is a bit weird for camera shopping in the UK. The stock they have is patchy, and the prices aren't necessarily better than dedicated camera retailers, so I wouldn't take their charts as representative here.


----------



## scyrene (Jul 1, 2017)

transpo1 said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > transpo1 said:
> ...



If including it put the price up (and it may; heat dissipation and faster processing may be required), they might sell fewer cameras. We don't know - we don't have any data to say either way. But this is a nuanced point, and you evince a rather clumsy position - that anyone disagreeing with you is a 'fanboy' etc. Yawn.


----------



## scyrene (Jul 1, 2017)

Aglet said:


> The POINT, Neuro, is to encourage others who don't like Canon's IQ, or other features or lack thereof, to try any other body or system that better suits what they want.



Neuro has posted plenty of replies on these forums along the lines of 'buy what suits you best, whatever the brand'. I've not yet seen him tell people to buy Canon for the sake of it being Canon. So you're actually in agreement with each other.


----------



## Khalai (Jul 1, 2017)

mppix said:


> Did anyone really expect a 1DXII/5DIV grade AF module in the 6DII?



Apparently everyone out there, according to various individuals in recent discussion ;D

Like Canon was forcing them 6D2s down their throats without asking them nicely. Poor souls, at the mercy of Canon, who cannot change system for whatever obscure reason, yet continue to prophecise that Canon is surely ******* 8)


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jul 1, 2017)

scyrene said:


> Aglet said:
> 
> 
> > The POINT, Neuro, is to encourage others who don't like Canon's IQ, or other features or lack thereof, to try any other body or system that better suits what they want.
> ...



Indeed. But there are those, like Aglet, who simply can't seem to accept that some people —a majority, in fact— have found that Canon best suits what they need/want.


----------



## BillB (Jul 1, 2017)

Khalai said:


> mppix said:
> 
> 
> > Did anyone really expect a 1DXII/5DIV grade AF module in the 6DII?
> ...



Posters are a self selected group, and quite a few are upset about something. In this case, it seems that actually seeing a (simulated) picture of the AF spread of the 6DII clumped in middle of the viewfinder proved unsettling to persons unfamiliar with AF spreads in other full frame cameras, and several of them immediately shared their concern with the readers of Canon Rumors. There was some disengenuous trolling going on, but mostly it's seems to have been the result of unfamiliarity with AF point spreads in typical full frame OVF's, most likely on the part of persons seriously thinking of getting a 6DII.


----------



## Don Haines (Jul 1, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > Aglet said:
> ...



Also, some people have a hard time accepting that there are far more decision criteria than just camera specs, and that these different criteria will lead to different decisions.... even the same person will make different decisions under different circumstances.

For example, at work, we have a multi-million dollar budget, a 7D, and a 6D, and the 6D2 is not worth upgrading to.... yet at home, with a considerably smalller budget, the 6D2 is considered a very worthwhile upgrade... I chose Canon and am happy with my decision, yet some of the recommendations I have recently made to friends are D500 plus 200-500 and to on other person, Olympus.

There is no such thing as one simple answer for everyone and those crying "Canon is *******" or that everyone should switch to brand Y are missing that simple point..... The variations of individual's needs and preferences far exceed the variation between camera bodies!


----------



## BillB (Jul 1, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> scyrene said:
> 
> 
> > Aglet said:
> ...



Having seen the Pentax Light, he comes to Canon Rumors to bring photographic Truth with the poor deluded souls who use Canon equipment. Such a thankless task he sets himself.


----------



## Don Haines (Jul 1, 2017)

BillB said:


> Khalai said:
> 
> 
> > mppix said:
> ...



And most of them do not realize that the spread of AF points is limited by geometry. To get more vertical spread, the shutter/AF mechanism would need to be made deeper, and that would change the sensor-lens distance, and that would mean a whole new set of lenses....

So yes, canon could have made a better AF point spread, but it would have meant a much larger camera and tossing out all you existing lenses..... and that is a cost that none of us would bear!


----------



## hbr (Jul 1, 2017)

BillB said:


> Khalai said:
> 
> 
> > mppix said:
> ...



You are correct, BillB. Out of ignorance about AF systems I am afraid that I was the one that started this argument because I couldn't understand why the 6D2 would not cover most of the frame as my 7D2 and then several others chimed in. The argument is fine to educate others who felt the same way that I did, but it has gotten quite heated which is not what I set out to do.

Brian


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Jul 1, 2017)

hbr said:


> You are correct, BillB. Out of ignorance about AF systems I am afraid that I was the one that started this argument because I couldn't understand why the 6D2 would not cover most of the frame as my 7D2 and then several others chimed in. The argument is fine to educate others who felt the same way that I did, but it has gotten quite heated which is not what I set out to do.
> 
> Brian



Brian, its not you, its the typical new product announcement time. The complaint used to be DR, now complainers need something new to argue about. In fact, if every camera had all the features people want, few could afford one. As to the AF point spread, a 5D MK III or MK IV AF chip would fit without changing the lens to sensor distance, its just a matter of keeping costs down.

Having been a member since virtually the beginning (Lost my first two years of membership when my account was accidentally deleted), I see it happen with every new announcement. Things will calm down in a week or two.


----------



## hbr (Jul 1, 2017)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> hbr said:
> 
> 
> > You are correct, BillB. Out of ignorance about AF systems I am afraid that I was the one that started this argument because I couldn't understand why the 6D2 would not cover most of the frame as my 7D2 and then several others chimed in. The argument is fine to educate others who felt the same way that I did, but it has gotten quite heated which is not what I set out to do.
> ...



Thanks, Mt Spokane Photography. I have learned a couple of things from neuro: 1) With a shallow DOF and recomposing the distance between the camera and the subject changes which explains why quite a number of my shots of a model ended up being slightly out of focus when I was trying to take a picture from the waist up and 2) the AF spread on the 6D2 isn't much worse than the more expensive models.
I have come to this forum nearly every day for the past 6 or 7 years now but only recently joined because I had an opinion that I wanted to express.
I will almost never bad mouth someone on this forum even if they disagree with my opinion. I put my opinion out there and if someone disagrees with me then so be it. The only time I might get upset and trash talk someone is if I am attacked first.

Brian


----------



## CanonCams (Jul 2, 2017)

http://support-th.canon-asia.com/contents/TH/EN/0302746901.html?

Manual released.


----------



## -pekr- (Jul 2, 2017)

OK, nothing really suprising there. For us, an APS-C (70D) shooters, maybe some color sensor, which helps to select focusing point in a group? Also loupe ability to focus straight to the AF point gaining focus, might be handy too.

Now the long wait towards the first tests to see, how much behind (or not) is the 6DII in regards to the high ISO performance of the 5DIV.

Well, DigiDirect is claiming, that Canon states, that the low light performance should be better than the one of the 5DIV. That contradicts DPR claims. We will see ....

https://youtu.be/ylLd9Y2EL3w?t=180


----------



## Sporgon (Jul 2, 2017)

Given that the 6DII is 26 mp and the 6D is 20, does anyone want to have a bet as to how soon the first "my 6DII images are softer than those from my 6D" post will come through ? I'm giving 1/10 that it's by mid August, 2/1 that it's by the end of the first week in August


----------



## Khalai (Jul 2, 2017)

Sporgon said:


> Given that the 6DII is 26 mp and the 6D is 20, does anyone want to have a bet as to how soon the first "my 6DII images are softer than those from my 6D" post will come through ? I'm giving 1/10 that it's by mid August, 2/1 that it's by the end of the first week in August



It's just 14% increase of horizontal and vertical resolution. There shouldn't be major difference, or am I fundamentally missing something?


----------



## Sporgon (Jul 2, 2017)

Khalai said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > Given that the 6DII is 26 mp and the 6D is 20, does anyone want to have a bet as to how soon the first "my 6DII images are softer than those from my 6D" post will come through ? I'm giving 1/10 that it's by mid August, 2/1 that it's by the end of the first week in August
> ...



Wait and see


----------



## Khalai (Jul 2, 2017)

Sporgon said:


> Khalai said:
> 
> 
> > Sporgon said:
> ...



Well, give the flak Canon apparently receives for that "clusterf**k small and tight AF array" I should't really be surprised, right?


----------



## BillB (Jul 2, 2017)

Khalai said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > Khalai said:
> ...



We also have to figure on people not waiting on the right Raw profiles for the 6DII or not finding the right sharpening adjustments, as well as those among us with an uncanny knack for finding a fatal, if only rarely replicateable, flaw in any new Canon product. That should get into October, if not later.


----------



## Khalai (Jul 2, 2017)

mppix said:


> Khalai said:
> 
> 
> > Sporgon said:
> ...



I was just merely referring to resolution and whether it will be noticeable change from original 6D. I really do hope in that on-chip ADC magic to happen and I'm a bit concerned about some snippet from DPR, where Canon rep supposedly said that 6D2 sensor is not as good as the one in 5D4. Well, can't wait for real world review. In about 16 hours, there is an event near where I live - 6D2 hands on presentation. Sadly, only preproduction samples so no RAW photos allowed just yet :/


----------



## -pekr- (Jul 2, 2017)

Khalai said:


> mppix said:
> 
> 
> > Khalai said:
> ...



Whereas DigiDirect claims Canon stating, that the low light performance should be better than the one of the 5DIV. That contradicts DPR claims. We will see ....

https://youtu.be/ylLd9Y2EL3w?t=180


----------



## Isaacheus (Jul 3, 2017)

Do Canon have any iso invariant sensors? Keen to see if they have managed this on the new sensor with the new adc tech. 

Slightly less related, do they have any sensor Ibis tech either?


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jul 3, 2017)

Khalai said:


> I really do hope in that on-chip ADC magic to happen and I'm a bit concerned about some snippet from DPR, where Canon rep supposedly said that 6D2 sensor is not as good as the one in 5D4.



If it doesn't have on-chip ADC even I'll start calling it "nerfed". It can be iffy to pay attention to reps, though, who probably are told not to hype a product as better than the ones above it. Here, "not as good" might mean "down 4mpx from" rather than anything really meaningful.

Heck, remember back in the day when the Celerons with the on-chip L2 cache were "worse" than the Pentium IIs, even though they definitely weren't for almost every task?


----------



## Mikehit (Jul 3, 2017)

Isaacheus said:


> Do Canon have any iso invariant sensors? Keen to see if they have managed this on the new sensor with the new adc tech.
> 
> Slightly less related, do they have any sensor Ibis tech either?



How 'invariant' do you want it?

No, Canon have no IBIS technology (where the sensor physically moves)


----------



## Aglet (Jul 3, 2017)

Isaacheus said:


> Do Canon have any iso invariant sensors? Keen to see if they have managed this on the new sensor with the new adc tech.



not really... the 5D4, 7D2 and 80D are pretty much improved tho, compared to many of Canon's earlier bodies.
They have less noise and considerably less fixed pattern noise which are key to 'iso invariance."
however, they still have a rather non-linear signal-to-noise-ratio vs exposure level (see DxOmark, full SNR plots) which is exacerbated at lower ISOs... so this kind of gets in the way of the "iso invariance" ability.

That said, these newer bodies, and hopefully the 6D2, will produce raw files that can take considerably more manipulation in post without falling apart. 
But still not quite as much as everybody else's cameras... FWIW, Canon's latest bodies are "good enough" to consider iso-invariant to some degree.




> Slightly less related, do they have any sensor Ibis tech either?



no, they were too proud/fiscally-prudent to choose that route. 
So you have larger, pricier lenses instead.

Olympus, Sony, and Pentax have kicked butt in the IBIS technology. Panasonic is getting there.


----------



## Mikehit (Jul 3, 2017)

Aglet said:


> > Slightly less related, do they have any sensor Ibis tech either?
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Canon have always said that for long lenses it is better to have the stabilisation in the lens and I am not sure anyone has really proven otherwise. However, what I think is interesting is 'dual stabilisation' started by Panasonic IIRC and now with Olympus as well, where lens and sensor stabilisation work together and I reckon that has caught Canon on the hop. 
600mm f4 with 6 stops of stabilisation? Yes please!


----------



## Khalai (Jul 3, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> Aglet said:
> 
> 
> > > Slightly less related, do they have any sensor Ibis tech either?
> ...



Canon always claimed in-lens IS as a better, more calibrated and customized solution. IBIS only works best for shorter FL anyway. I can guess 600/4L IS II with 4+2 stops IS would be amazeballs, but I'm afraid that IBIS would not be that efficient anyway, without moving the sensor almost out of the camera. That angular movement is actually quite pronounced on those FL


----------



## Isaacheus (Jul 3, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> How 'invariant' do you want it?
> 
> No, Canon have no IBIS technology (where the sensor physically moves)



As invariant as can be if possible... really looking for the ability to push vignetting out of corners, while being able to adjust the shadows and may a stop or so exposure, so I can catch the highlights in a sunset, for example, but also have a foreground. My current 6d is somewhat lacking in this at iso 100. The vignetting with astro and basically any pushing shadows in the upper isos (800+) is quite noisy. 

Shame about the ibis, I've got a few f4 IS lenses, but would like to get some faster primes 



Aglet said:


> not really... the 5D4, 7D2 and 80D are pretty much improved tho, compared to many of Canon's earlier bodies.
> They have less noise and considerably less fixed pattern noise which are key to 'iso invariance."
> however, they still have a rather non-linear signal-to-noise-ratio vs exposure level (see DxOmark, full SNR plots) which is exacerbated at lower ISOs... so this kind of gets in the way of the "iso invariance" ability.
> 
> ...



I'd love the pentax k-1 to come with an ef mount, that'd tick all the boxes. Slightly disappointed the 6d didn't really try to match this. The astro tracker and pixel shift would be perfect for what I shoot 99% of the time

Larger pricier lenses don't worry me too much (within reason, I really like the sigma Arts), but none of the faster canon primes have IS

How invariant are the latest sensors, compared to say the d750? (I know someone with this and am quite jealous of the shots he can recover and I have to miss)


----------



## jeffa4444 (Jul 3, 2017)

Sporgon said:


> Khalai said:
> 
> 
> > Sporgon said:
> ...



Lets not forget DPR had a pre-production camera with a beta version of DPP so they made a claim about softer images knowing the system was not yet perfected (unprofessional in my book). As Sporgon states lets wait and see.


----------



## Khalai (Jul 3, 2017)

jeffa4444 said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > Khalai said:
> ...



I'll have my hands on in about three hours. But only preproduction as well unfortunately. I won't be allowed to take any raw photos back home. Still I'm looking forward to it


----------



## candyman (Jul 3, 2017)

Khalai said:


> jeffa4444 said:
> 
> 
> > Sporgon said:
> ...


That's great.
Please share your impressions here. Thanks!


----------



## scyrene (Jul 3, 2017)

Khalai said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > Aglet said:
> ...



I'd never say no to better technology, but on longer lenses, typical subject matter is the limiting factor for exposure speed a lot of the time, rather than handholdability - namely, sports and wildlife. For instance, you can't really shoot birds slower than 1/250 most of the time, and that's already possible with 4 stop IS on the current super-telephoto lenses.

Having said that, with the advent of more DO superteles (as we're led to believe), and ever better IS, handholding at longer exposures will probably become easier (although with higher pixel densities, camera shake is more apparent at 100% magnification, making rules like 1/FL rather outdated, so maybe it'll balance out).

Personally, I think the area where better IS is most useful is at short to medium focal lengths, for certain macro work, and shots in dimly lit spaces without moving subjects (or where subject movement is part of the composition).


----------



## Mikehit (Jul 3, 2017)

Khalai said:


> Canon always claimed in-lens IS as a better, more calibrated and customized solution. IBIS only works best for shorter FL anyway. I can guess 600/4L IS II with 4+2 stops IS would be amazeballs, but I'm afraid that IBIS would not be that efficient anyway, without moving the sensor almost out of the camera. That angular movement is actually quite pronounced on those FL



I know that is always a comment made about IBIS for long focal lengths, but if you look at the Pana/Oly system the dual IS splits responsibilities - the sensor does not do full 5-axis and controls only the elements not covered by the lens. I don't know if this would help.


----------



## Don Haines (Jul 3, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> Khalai said:
> 
> 
> > Canon always claimed in-lens IS as a better, more calibrated and customized solution. IBIS only works best for shorter FL anyway. I can guess 600/4L IS II with 4+2 stops IS would be amazeballs, but I'm afraid that IBIS would not be that efficient anyway, without moving the sensor almost out of the camera. That angular movement is actually quite pronounced on those FL
> ...



The Oly system PRIMARILY is IBIS, but with certain lenses can use the lens stabilization at the same time, the result being better stabilization than either method alone gives.


----------



## mashuto (Jul 4, 2017)

Aglet said:


> the 5D4, 7D2 and 80D are pretty much improved tho, compared to many of Canon's earlier bodies.
> They have less noise and considerably less fixed pattern noise which are key to 'iso invariance."
> however, they still have a rather non-linear signal-to-noise-ratio vs exposure level (see DxOmark, full SNR plots) which is exacerbated at lower ISOs... so this kind of gets in the way of the "iso invariance" ability.
> 
> ...



This is my hope for the 6D2. As a current 6D owner who primarily focuses on landscapes, the 6D has been great, but I very often run into situations where pushing exposure and shadows in post more than about a stop, and as you say, it just falls apart.

I preordered the 6D2, based on the feature set and the hope that dynamic range is improved and that that its more "iso invariant" than before to the point that I can really manipulate my files. The features I am sold on, but sensor quality I am not. But if the current batch of canon cameras is significantly improved in that aspect from the original 6D and if the 6D2 matches the current crop of cameras (like the 5D4), then I will be happy. Its just still unknown exactly how well it will perform. Its the one thing thats holding me back from feeling completely confident in my preorder. So I am really looking to see just how well it performs, just how good the dynamic range is, and just how much we can manipulate and push RAW files before they become worthless.


----------



## dak723 (Jul 4, 2017)

jayt567 said:


> Lol....yeah and the good news is you'll have access to your 401k by then. Every time canon releases a new camera we start waiting for the next one. Canon really should have focused on at least matching what Nikon may be doing with the D750 replacement but clearly don't care as long as we keep handing them our hard earned cash. I'm sure this we be decent camera, but for $2000 hard earned dollars, decent seems a bit underwhelming. And certainly doesn't seem future proof, even for a couple years.



If you think the Nikon is the better camera, get the Nikon. The current 6D - for many of us - is far more than a "decent" camera. The IQ, in my opinion, is excellent. (Better than Sony overall in my real world comparison). The 6D, as most Canon cameras seem to be - is a reliable workhorse. It is quite future proof if you keep a camera for 7 or 8 years as many folks do (yes, not the folks on this forum, but those more interested in photography compared to those more interested in technology). So, the new 6DII sounds like it a great deal for those who aren't interested in 4K and who want a reliable, high IQ camera for the next 7 or 8 years.


----------



## Aglet (Jul 4, 2017)

mashuto said:


> Aglet said:
> 
> 
> > the 5D4, 7D2 and 80D are pretty much improved tho, compared to many of Canon's earlier bodies.
> ...



I ran into those limitations with my 5D2, 7D, and 60D. They were all nice to use but had too much fixed pattern noise. That's when I decided I wanted better tools.
Oddly, I had fewer problems with my older 40D and even some old Rebels running Digic 3.
6D should be a bit better than the old 5D2 I had but real improvements came from Canon with the 7D2, 80D and 5D4. Still kind of noisy in the dark areas but at least no more serious fixed pattern noise problems so that would allow more raw file mangling in post.
Hopefully ALL new Canon bodies will perform better like that and then I can stop poking at them with a stick. LOL


----------



## mashuto (Jul 4, 2017)

Aglet said:


> mashuto said:
> 
> 
> > Aglet said:
> ...



Yea, the 6D that I currently own was a significant improvement over the 60D I had before. My hope still remains that the 6D2 offers noticeable improvement again over the 6D, otherwise for me, I am not sure the price is worth it as an upgrade.


----------



## Aglet (Jul 4, 2017)

mashuto said:


> Yea, the 6D that I currently own was a significant improvement over the 60D I had before. My hope still remains that the 6D2 offers noticeable improvement again over the 6D, otherwise for me, I am not sure the price is worth it as an upgrade.



I certainly felt a little trapped in the Canon market like that for a while...
Always hoping the next body they introduced would bring enough improved IQ that I could continue using the system... I got frustrated and tired of waiting.

I tried a cheap little Nikon D5100 and when I saw the amazing raw file quality from that consumer level camera I was hooked! Ordered two D800s and more d5100s after that... no turning back. I bought into some Pentax gear around the same time, too. Same impressive raw files as the Nikons but I didn't have the glass for them so they got less use.
I also got the first non AA-filtered Pentax body, the K5IIs... and found I got some really ugly false-color artifacts on specular hilites... really didn't work for my water shots!

This is why I tell people on this forum... if you're not satisfied with the tool you're using, _try a different tool_! 
Since there were no adequately improved tools from Canon when I wanted them... I swtiched.. No regrets whatsoever. 
Investing in Canon was one of the better investments I made... Got all my $ back when I sold my lenses! LOL

The "system" argument so many here use against switching did not apply to me. There was nothing so special about Canon gear that I could not get comparable versions from other camera mfrs or 3rd-party.
That said, I'd love to have the tilt-shift 17mm and 24mm lenses but I won't buy another FF Canon body to put them on. I'd go Sony on that one if I ever buy that glass.

FORTUNATELY, Canon finally has 3 very good IQ bodies to switch to now. Possibly 4 if the new 6D2 performs as well as the 5D4. So you now have the option of _staying_ in the Canon camp if the latest products produce adequate raw files for your needs. You'll have to test it.
Hopefully the improved sensor tech will filter down to the Rebel series too.

That certainly would have been a lot simpler and cheaper for me if such an option existed some years ago.. Instead I now run Nikon, Pentax, Fuji, and Olympus-based MFT systems. There's still a few older Canon items on a shelf too... rarely use them now except for the big flashes which work well in my manual setups.


----------



## mashuto (Jul 4, 2017)

Aglet said:


> I certainly felt a little trapped in the Canon market like that for a while...
> Always hoping the next body they introduced would bring enough improved IQ that I could continue using the system... I got frustrated and tired of waiting.
> 
> This is why I tell people on this forum... if you're not satisfied with the tool you're using, _try a different tool_!
> ...



I personally stick with Canon mostly because I have been using them for a long time so I am comfortable with their operation, I like their lenses quite a lot, and I personally have never really felt that limited by image quality. I don't actually feel trapped. I just find myself lusting a little bit over tech that other companies are putting out, even though my canons really arent limiting for me.

My rebel xt served me well for 6 years while I was learning. My 60D was an excellent upgrade even though I only had it for two, simply because I wanted to move to full frame and my 6D has been fantastic for me and my uses. And everywhere image quality might be an issue, there are always work arounds (like bracketing and such).

So, I don't need to upgrade as the 6D still meets my needs quite well, but I am financially in a position where I can comfortably do it. The value proposition for me right now is that the new features look nice, but without an image quality boost to match, the cost might outweigh the value, if that makes sense. And if so, I will happily continue using my 6D as it still meets my needs. But, its been 4 and a half years since I got it, so if I can get some improvements now and keep my 6D as a backup (maybe with ML) I would be a happy camper. Again, just want to be sure that the value is worth the cost to me, and the one remaining unknown is image quality and just how much of an improvement it will be.

Now, from what I understand, the recent canon sensors have been quite good, maybe not as good as those sony sensors, but enough of an improvement for me to be happy. The question still remains just how much of those improvements will find their way into the 6D2 sensor. If past releases are anything to go by, it should be close to the 5D4... its just hard to be completely confident with all the talk lately of how canon is apparently intentionally holding their cameras back for whatever reasons.


----------



## Aglet (Jul 4, 2017)

mashuto said:


> I personally stick with Canon mostly because I have been using them for a long time so I am comfortable with their operation....



Ditto, They still have some of the best ergonomics and usability. I miss that aspect of using them.



> ..everywhere image quality might be an issue, there are always work arounds (like bracketing and such).



that's the part that bit me... there wasn't always a workaround worth using for some shots. Can't bracket anything with motion very well, takes too much time in post to clean it up.



> ..from what I understand, the recent canon sensors have been quite good, maybe not as good as those sony sensors, but enough of an improvement for me to be happy. The question still remains just how much of those improvements will find their way into the 6D2 sensor. If past releases are anything to go by, it should be close to the 5D4... its just hard to be completely confident with all the talk lately of how canon is apparently intentionally holding their cameras back for whatever reasons.



that will be your main factor.
if the 6d2 tests close to the 5d4 on DxOmark then it may be worth the upgrade for improved IQ.
Right now the 5d4 vs the 6d.. 5d4 has about 1 stop cleaner deep shadows in lower ISOs from the SNR data published.
Time, and testing, will tell what the 6d2 does. It would be sad if it's not at least as good as the 5d4.

Whenever can afford a justifiable upgrade, I make it. I still run my original d800s because the IQ is so close to the 810 and I don't need the extra features of the newer model. Not sure what I will think about the next D8x0 model tho until it's out and tested.


----------



## BillB (Jul 4, 2017)

mashuto said:


> Aglet said:
> 
> 
> > I certainly felt a little trapped in the Canon market like that for a while...
> ...



My situation is pretty much the same as yours, only that I now have the 5DII, rather than the 6D. For me, the big question has two parts. The first part is whether the 6DII will have significantly better IQ than the 5DII. The second part is whether I want better IQ than the 5DII already gives me. We are going to have to wait to find out the 6DII's IQ, and I have some thinking to do about how happy I am with the 5DII's IQ. 

If I really am serious about IQ, I should use a tripod more, and the 6DII's articulated screen with touchscreen focussing in Liveview seems pretty attractive for working on a tripod. Interesting choices.


----------



## Mikehit (Jul 4, 2017)

BillB said:


> My situation is pretty much the same as yours, only that I now have the 5DII, rather than the 6D. For me, the big question has two parts. The first part is whether the 6DII will have significantly better IQ than the 5DII. The second part is whether I want better IQ than the 5DII already gives me. We are going to have to wait to find out the 6DII's IQ, and I have some thinking to do about how happy I am with the 5DII's IQ.
> 
> If I really am serious about IQ, I should use a tripod more, and the 6DII's articulated screen with touchscreen focussing in Liveview seems pretty attractive for working on a tripod. Interesting choices.



Why would you think the 6D2 does not have better IQ than the 5DII? The 6D was as good as the 5D3 so why would the 6D2 be worse than that?


----------



## BillB (Jul 4, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> BillB said:
> 
> 
> > My situation is pretty much the same as yours, only that I now have the 5DII, rather than the 6D. For me, the big question has two parts. The first part is whether the 6DII will have significantly better IQ than the 5DII. The second part is whether I want better IQ than the 5DII already gives me. We are going to have to wait to find out the 6DII's IQ, and I have some thinking to do about how happy I am with the 5DII's IQ.
> ...



All I am saying is that I want to see some reports on the 6DII IQ before I make up my mind. It will have to be something like $2000 better to make me comfortable about getting it.


----------



## Ozarker (Jul 4, 2017)

BillB said:


> Mikehit said:
> 
> 
> > BillB said:
> ...



For you, what would make it $2,000 better? Just wondering how you quantify that. I don't think it is possible to quantify it. Really, it just boils down to whether a person wants to spend the money or not. I mean, really, what does $2,000 better look like? The new camera costs about $2,000.


----------



## BillB (Jul 4, 2017)

CanonFanBoy said:


> BillB said:
> 
> 
> > Mikehit said:
> ...


----------



## BillB (Jul 5, 2017)

BillB said:


> CanonFanBoy said:
> 
> 
> > BillB said:
> ...


----------



## curby (Jul 5, 2017)

BillB said:


> It will have to be something like $2000 better to make me comfortable about getting it.



That's only if you can't get anything out of your old camera, right? In which case, can I have it? I'll pay for shipping. ;D


----------



## unfocused (Jul 5, 2017)

BillB said:


> ...The main thing is whether I will be able to take better pictures with the 6DII I than take with my 5DII. An important question for me is whether I will be able to see a difference in the quality of a 12x18 print made with the 6DII in comparison to one from the 5DII. That is one of my personal standards. If I can't see the difference in a 12x18 print, it doesn't mean much to me. There are some other things, but that is a big one...



I can answer that right now. No, you won't be able to see a difference in the quality of a 12 x 18 print. Just as you can't see the difference in the quality of a 12 x 18 print between a crop sensor and a 1DX II.

The differences are only noticeable if you are at the extremes: low light, extreme contrast, etc. With subjects shot under normal circumstances and printed and viewed at normal viewing distances, with an image shot at ISO 400 or below, no one can tell the difference between one camera and another.

12 x 18 is a fairly modest print size. I have printed significantly larger with the old 18 mp 7D sensor and prints are indistinguishable from those taken with a 5DIII or a 1DX II. 

So, if that is your only criteria to determine if an upgrade is worthwhile to you, then I would recommend you simply keep the 5DII until it dies and then replace it with whatever is available at the time.


----------



## unfocused (Jul 5, 2017)

jayt567 said:


> So now that this is over, when does the disappointing 7D Mark III come out?



Let the speculation and rumors begin!


----------



## Don Haines (Jul 5, 2017)

unfocused said:


> jayt567 said:
> 
> 
> > So now that this is over, when does the disappointing 7D Mark III come out?
> ...



OK....

It will have a dual card slot.... you heard it here first!


----------



## dak723 (Jul 5, 2017)

BillB said:


> The main thing is whether I will be able to take better pictures with the 6DII I than take with my 5DII. An important question for me is whether I will be able to see a difference in the quality of a 12x18 print made with the 6DII in comparison to one from the 5DII. That is one of my personal standards. If I can't see the difference in a 12x18 print, it doesn't mean much to me. There are some other things, but that is a big one.



If it will be possible for you to rent the 6D II at some point, that's what I would recommend. Then you can test it for yourself. Considering that Canon has gone to on sensor adc, there is a good possibility that you will be able to tell the difference, as the new cameras have less noise at low ISO. 

In general, I agree with the previous poster, that virtually every DSLR whether FF or crop will give you excellent prints. I only print up to 8'' x 10" or so, but 12" x 18" is considerably larger. I would test the camera to compare.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jul 5, 2017)

unfocused said:


> jayt567 said:
> 
> 
> > So now that this is over, when does the disappointing 7D Mark III come out?
> ...



Rumors for the rumor mill!


----------



## Ozarker (Jul 5, 2017)

unfocused said:


> BillB said:
> 
> 
> > ...The main thing is whether I will be able to take better pictures with the 6DII I than take with my 5DII. An important question for me is whether I will be able to see a difference in the quality of a 12x18 print made with the 6DII in comparison to one from the 5DII. That is one of my personal standards. If I can't see the difference in a 12x18 print, it doesn't mean much to me. There are some other things, but that is a big one...
> ...



Exactly.


----------



## Aglet (Jul 5, 2017)

CanonFanBoy said:


> unfocused said:
> 
> 
> > BillB said:
> ...



Even I'll say ditto to that. 
But if you want to start mangling the raw files and printing 36" or more, the 5d2/3/6d/etc. was not satisfying for some of us.


----------



## privatebydesign (Jul 5, 2017)

BillB said:


> The main thing is whether I will be able to take better pictures with the 6DII I than take with my 5DII. An important question for me is whether I will be able to see a difference in the quality of a 12x18 print made with the 6DII in comparison to one from the 5DII. That is one of my personal standards. If I can't see the difference in a 12x18 print, it doesn't mean much to me. There are some other things, but that is a big one.



I might be splitting hairs here but for the sake of accuracy here goes. 

You, personally, will not "take better pictures" with a different camera, if, by "better", you mean more compelling. 

Now will you be able to see the difference in 12X18 prints? That depends entirely on what you photograph, how good you are at maximizing the capabilities of your current gear, how you process your images, and how you print them. For most people most of the time the answer will be no, but don't think there isn't a huge IQ difference between the 5D MkII and 6D MkII, there is. All new Canon sensors contain much higher IQ than earlier generations, whether you will see the benefits of that depend entirely on if you see the breakdown in IQ of your current camera, if you do the 6D MkII will be a big upgrade, if you don't see that break down then the new camera won't do much for you.

As a roundup, if when processing you regularly raise the shadow slider, particularly if you also tend to raise exposure, you will see a difference even in small prints. If you ETTR and tend to lower exposure in post and/or leave the shadows slider where it is and lower blacks, then you will not see a difference in 8x12 prints between a 5D MkII andA 6D MkII.


----------



## tron (Jul 5, 2017)

jayt567 said:


> jayt567 said:
> 
> 
> > Don Haines said:
> ...


So has Nikon removed a card slot from D500 too? I do not think so...


----------



## Orangutan (Jul 5, 2017)

Aglet said:


> Ordered two D800s and more d5100s after that... no turning back. I bought into some Pentax gear around the same time, too. Same impressive raw files as the Nikons but I didn't have the glass for them so they got less use.
> I also got the first non AA-filtered Pentax body, the K5IIs... and found I got some really ugly false-color artifacts on specular hilites... really didn't work for my water shots!


You clearly have a lot more money to throw at camera gear than most DSLR purchasers. Bear that in mind when you tell other people what they should buy.



> This is why I tell people on this forum... if you're not satisfied with the tool you're using, _try a different tool_!


You'll get no disagreement on this anywhere on this forum.



> I swtiched.. No regrets whatsoever.


OK, and now what?


----------



## Sporgon (Jul 5, 2017)

privatebydesign said:


> BillB said:
> 
> 
> > The main thing is whether I will be able to take better pictures with the 6DII I than take with my 5DII. An important question for me is whether I will be able to see a difference in the quality of a 12x18 print made with the 6DII in comparison to one from the 5DII. That is one of my personal standards. If I can't see the difference in a 12x18 print, it doesn't mean much to me. There are some other things, but that is a big one.
> ...



I'd agree with this as with a camera such as the 5DII you must not unnecessarily underexposed the highlights. If you're capable of always pushing the highlights to the limit of the sensor in a bright scene with deep shadows, there is plenty of latitude in the bottom of the sensor to deal with shadow detail.


----------



## Khalai (Jul 5, 2017)

Orangutan said:


> > I swtiched.. No regrets whatsoever.
> 
> 
> OK, and now what?


Simple. Wait, until that other brands disappoint you in the future and switch to a third brand. And then it goes all over again


----------



## Aglet (Jul 5, 2017)

Orangutan said:


> Aglet said:
> 
> 
> > Ordered two D800s and more d5100s after that... no turning back. I bought into some Pentax gear around the same time, too. Same impressive raw files as the Nikons but I didn't have the glass for them so they got less use.
> ...



What what?... 
I get nearly 14 stops of base iso performance from a 14bit raw file with my ABC cameras.
There's no further improvement to be had until there's 16 bits of raw and enough dynamic range per pixel to make it worthwhile... Super low read noise, like we have now from Sony's sensors, and larger electron well capacity by a factor of 4 or so... 
So, *ISO 25.*


----------



## unfocused (Jul 6, 2017)

Aglet said:


> What what?...
> I get nearly 14 stops of base iso performance from a 14bit raw file with my ABC cameras.
> There's no further improvement to be had until there's 16 bits of raw and enough dynamic range per pixel to make it worthwhile... Super low read noise, like we have now from Sony's sensors, and larger electron well capacity by a factor of 4 or so...
> So, *ISO 25.*



It sounds like you've found the very best camera for you. Congratulations. No one would begrudge you that.

Just don't presume that your needs are the same as others, or worse yet, that you are more discerning than others. People have different priorities and for most people on this forum, Canon continues to meet or exceed those needs/desires. 

I would never argue that Canon is better than another brand. Nikon is an excellent brand. It just isn't my brand.


----------



## Orangutan (Jul 6, 2017)

Aglet said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > Aglet said:
> ...



No, I mean now you're happy with your new gear, so what more do you have to tell us? Do you have photos to show? What do you expect CR forum readers to do now?


----------



## Aglet (Jul 6, 2017)

Orangutan said:


> ..What do you expect CR forum readers to do now?



_.. not be afraid to try a different tool if they're not satisfied with the one they're using._


----------



## Orangutan (Jul 6, 2017)

Aglet said:


> Orangutan said:
> 
> 
> > ..What do you expect CR forum readers to do now?
> ...



That's always been the case.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jul 6, 2017)

Orangutan said:


> Aglet said:
> 
> 
> > Orangutan said:
> ...



Of course, but for some reason Aglet assumes we're all so enamored of Canon and so terrified of trying something else that we are all locked in to Canon forever. I don't think he's even considered the possiblity that many of us have used other systems, and simply prefer Canon. So he's here to save us all from ourselves. :


----------



## Mikehit (Jul 6, 2017)

A bit crude but...


https://youtu.be/kzQ1-llj3kQ


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jul 6, 2017)

Perhaps Aglet should stick to his primary task...keeping our shoelaces from fraying.


----------



## Aglet (Jul 7, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> Of course, but for some reason Aglet assumes we're all so enamored of Canon and so terrified of trying something else that we are all locked in to Canon forever. I don't think he's even considered the possiblity that many of us have used other systems, and simply prefer Canon. So he's here to save us all from ourselves. :



your support and defense of Canon borders on Neurotic, IMO. 

did you finally have to google my user name to look for something to chew on? LOL
just as well... you probably can't manage more than velcro for that application.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jul 7, 2017)

I prefer buckles, actually...they look more sophisticated. But at least I try to avoid making ASSumptions about what other people know. I generally don't need to, some people effectively demonstrate their ignorance all on their own. 

Speaking of sophisticated, what happened to that website of yours, a2bart.com? All that centered text, and even colored text! Where will people go now, when they want to purchase high quality images online? Oh, that's right...they'll go to the same places as before. Hopefully you at least still have some images hanging on the walls of that little seed shoppe in Edmonton.


----------



## LonelyBoy (Jul 7, 2017)

Aglet said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Of course, but for some reason Aglet assumes we're all so enamored of Canon and so terrified of trying something else that we are all locked in to Canon forever. I don't think he's even considered the possiblity that many of us have used other systems, and simply prefer Canon. So he's here to save us all from ourselves. :
> ...



"Elastic laces for life" says this former triathlete. That said...

1) Did your mother not teach you the word "aglet" when you were like six or eight? Sad.
2) Who is actually afraid to try ABC? I just have no desire because my Canon equipment does everything I need it to. I'd like a 5D4 instead of my 5D3, of course, but that'll probably be another year or two. Unless I break down and get one before Kona.


----------



## stevelee (Jul 8, 2017)

Luds34 said:


> Thanks to all the folks working out the AF point overlays!
> 
> Sure, the spread appears a bit disappointing, but that is pretty standard with full frame cameras. And the original 6D had a diamond pattern, this more rectangular pattern does allow to get more to the corner of the frame for an AF point. Not to mention the AF points being cross type make them much more useful then the 6D.
> tech. I thought they once said they use the best sensor available.



Sounds like people who need the full spread really want a crop-sensor camera.


----------



## stevelee (Jul 8, 2017)

Talys said:


> All it took was to look at the photos on the review here to sell me:
> 
> http://www.imaging-resource.com/PRODS/canon-6d-mark-ii/canon-6d-mark-iiA.HTM
> 
> ...



Yes, I was impressed by the buffalo pictures even before I saw the ISO. I'm with you. Pixel peeping at that photo was enough to convince me that this is the camera I will eventually buy. I'm still not pre-ordering though.


----------



## stevelee (Jul 8, 2017)

hbr said:


> Here is another site that also took photos at Yellowstone with the 6DII.https://www.digitaltrends.com/digital-camera-reviews/canon-eos-6d-mark-ii-review/#/1-21
> Very nice pictures.
> Brian



Looks good. I watched the video full screen on my 5K monitor, and it held up pretty well.


----------



## BillB (Jul 8, 2017)

Sporgon said:


> privatebydesign said:
> 
> 
> > BillB said:
> ...



My thanks to everybody who commented on my post. Your comments have been most helpful in clarifying my understanding of the choices.


----------



## stevelee (Jul 8, 2017)

LesC said:


> I have a 48" 4K TV and the difference between HD broadcasts & say 4K content on Netflix is marginal and depends much more on the subject matter, lighting, how it was filmed etc. So some HD content will look just as good as 4K anyway. So lack of 4K doesn't really bother me.



At what I consider a normal viewing distance for a TV, it is hard to tell the difference between 1080p and 720p, much less 4K. Most of what I get over cable is 1080i, which has been further compressed, and it can look pretty decent. And of course 1080i is really the same level of quality as 720p, if you do the math.

I've not ever seen streamed 4K, but I suspect the level of compression would negate a lot of the advantage over streamed 1080p.

I would shoot 4K for the little bit of video I shoot per year just to have more leeway in zooming and cropping while editing. That's what I did last summer when I shot some pick-up basketball games with my iPhone. Of course with zoom lenses on real cameras, that is less of an issue.


----------



## stevelee (Jul 8, 2017)

Mikehit said:


> Remarkable.
> I have lost count of how many people there are heavily criticising the 6D2, and they have a total number of posts lower than the IQ of the average 2 year old.
> So I ask myself what makes them so insecure that they even come onto the Canon forums let alone feel the need to criticise a camera they have no intention of buying and have often bought into competitor's systems.
> 
> Insecure....so insecure.



By definition, the average IQ of two-year-olds would be 100. But then I don't have that many posts yet. While I've read the site for a while, I've just joined the forum because of my interest in the 6D Mark II. 

I can usually resist the temptation to respond to trolls, and a lot of time will skip reading their posts, but sometimes I just have to look. Somehow the appeal of going to a discussion board about some product I have no interest in escapes me.


----------



## Aglet (Jul 8, 2017)

neuroanatomist said:


> I prefer buckles, actually...they look more sophisticated.



Oh, most _certainly_. Make sure you have the matching hat, too. ;D


----------

