# Coronavirus and Canon production



## Canon Rumors Guy (Mar 2, 2020)

> *UPDATE:* Canon to close five plants for nearly two weeks this month.
> Canon said on February 28 that it will suspend operations at its five offices in Kyushu, which produce cameras and related products, for about two weeks from March 2 to 13. The supply of parts from China may become unstable due to the effects of the new coronavirus. The operation date will be re-assigned to a different date within the year, but details will be finalized in the future. The company hopes to maintain production efficiency by operating when parts supply is stable.
> The target is a total of five manufacturing subsidiaries in Oita, Miyazaki and Nagasaki. The company produces SLR cameras, interchangeable lenses, network cameras (surveillance cameras), etc. At the moment, no employees have been infected. [Via Nikkei]
> 
> ...



Continue reading...


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## bsbeamer (Mar 2, 2020)

NAB 2020 (April in Las Vegas) is currently still "ON" but more than one major vendor is expected to back out by end of this week.


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## nostrovia (Mar 2, 2020)

DP Review is reporting the temporary closure of five Canon factories due to supply shortages.


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## joestopper (Mar 2, 2020)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...



Photokina did not take place last year. If again cancelled this year, it could be likely the end of it ...


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## Juangrande (Mar 2, 2020)

I hope it doesn’t ultimately cause quality control issues, I’d rather they wait it out and build the gear right then find a workaround solution for expediency. And hopefully it doesn’t effect final cost to the consumer.


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## KeithBreazeal (Mar 2, 2020)

It is what it is. It just gives me more time to save up $$$$. When the R5 is finally shipped, wipe it down with a disinfectant.


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## Del Paso (Mar 2, 2020)

KeithBreazeal said:


> It is what it is. It just gives me more time to save up $$$$. When the R5 is finally shipped, wipe it down with a disinfectant.


I'd rather use an acetylene torch if you buy a Sony.
Keep it on the A 7-9 for at least a few minutes to be on the safe side.


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## LensFungus (Mar 2, 2020)

Cologne is in the German state of North Rhine-Westphalia where Corona is currently spreading more than anywhere in Germany. We have officially 180 infected people and 92 of those live in North Rhine-Westphalia. Photokina is at end of May and it seems the organisers' plan is to wait and see what happens til early or mid May. There has been talk about hot summer temperatures making it harder for the virus to spread but since we haven't had a summer with Corona we will have to see.

Germany's biggest fitness fair was scheduled for early April in Cologne but they moved it into the second half of 2020. My personal guess is that the Photokina organisers are working on the same plan before it's too late and they can't find another good date.


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## frozengogo (Mar 2, 2020)

KeithBreazeal said:


> It is what it is. It just gives me more time to save up $$$$. When the R5 is finally shipped, wipe it down with a disinfectant.



You din't need to wipe it down, letting is sit for a week does the trick. Imagine, having your brand new R5 sitting in its box on the shelf just taunting you every time you walk by for a week.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 2, 2020)

The economic impact of the Corona virus is not only going to impact supply chains, but sales. People will not be traveling, I'd give the Olympics a 80% chance of being cancelled. Its already caused my orders from China to be put on hold. Truck drivers are going to stop all but essential hauling of food and medical supplies, its going to be horrible. I don't live near Seattle, but my son sent photos of a grocery store stripped of long term essentials, just empty shelves.


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## Quarkcharmed (Mar 2, 2020)

Is Canon *******?


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## bsbeamer (Mar 2, 2020)

bsbeamer said:


> NAB 2020 (April in Las Vegas) is currently still "ON" but more than one major vendor is expected to back out by end of this week.



And here's the first one:




__





AJA Video Systems Withdrawing from NAB 2020 - Top Stories - News - AJA Video Systems


It is with a heavy heart that AJA is withdrawing from the NAB 2020 show in Las Vegas due to the risks from the Coronavirus. We have made this decision out of an abundance of caution for the health and safety of our employees and partners worldwide.




www.aja.com


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## BeenThere (Mar 2, 2020)

KeithBreazeal said:


> It is what it is. It just gives me more time to save up $$$$. When the R5 is finally shipped, wipe it down with a disinfectant.


Yeah, try to keep your tongue from touching the new camera.


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## jvillain (Mar 3, 2020)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> People will not be traveling, I'd give the Olympics a 80% chance of being cancelled.



If the Olympics were in a country the US hates then yes. But they are in Japan so no. Who goes is a different question.


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## Ozarker (Mar 3, 2020)

jvillain said:


> If the Olympics were in a country the US hates then yes. But they are in Japan so no. Who goes is a different question.


?????


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## David_E (Mar 3, 2020)

Apple, Canon, Nikon, Samsung, Sony... All in the same boat, so no one comes out of this disaster with a competitive advantage.


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## joestopper (Mar 3, 2020)

David_E said:


> Apple, Canon, Nikon, Samsung, Sony... All in the same boat, so no one comes out of this disaster with a competitive advantage.



But that is not the point.
The point is: We have to wait longer until we can hold our new R5 in our hands ...


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## AdmiralFwiffo (Mar 3, 2020)

The hand-sanitizer section of my local CVS:


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## Bennymiata (Mar 3, 2020)

I live in Sydney Australia. 
We also have travel bans from many countries now like the US has.
My wife and I have just come home from our favourite supermarket and there was no toilet paper, tissues or hand sanitisers in stock, where the shelves are usually bursting with this stuff.

In my personal opinion, I think people are overreacting to this disease, but we do have to be cautious, but not allow it to rule our lives.

Manufacturers will find other sources of supply so we may hang out for a few months but everything will settle down and return to normal.
This disease has affected China VERY hard. Their car sales are now down by 92%.
Last weekend, one of my brothers-in-law travelled to India via Hong Kong and he sent me a photo from inside Hong Kong's airport. There wasn't one person in the photo.
The big loosers are the airlines and tourist industries.


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## C Tographer (Mar 3, 2020)

The virus is only going to get worse. There's a 100% chance Photokina will be cancelled. They may as well announce the cancellation now.

Which is all very sad. Disruption of camera supply chains is not good for any of us.


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## sanj (Mar 3, 2020)

I realize it is selfish of me but I hope my 1dx3 gets shipped soon. I realize my pre-order was late (just around 10 days ago) but I hope I get it!


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## Czardoom (Mar 3, 2020)

Lovely thread. Everyone should pat themselves on the pack for a total lack of perspective.

Many people are dying...and you are worrying about how long it may delay the camera you want.

Why am I not surprised?


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## sanj (Mar 3, 2020)

Czardoom said:


> Lovely thread. Everyone should pat themselves on the pack for a total lack of perspective.
> 
> Many people are dying...and you are worrying about how long it may delay the camera you want.
> 
> Why am I not surprised?


Yes, you are right. I agree.


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## mb66energy (Mar 3, 2020)

My first thought was: How glad I am that I have enough stuff to do what I want but prices will get higher if I need or want some special stuff.
My second thought was: Has my need a higher priority than acting against a virus that will presumably not the killer beast of some dystopic movies but kills people directly and leads to a decrease of economic growth which will affect a lot of people very hard: No Job -> no money -> less to eat/heat/cultural participation.
And death rates of round about 1% (at the moment higher) means 1 out of hundred persons is killed - a much higher percentage than winning a lottery where it is often around 0.00001% to make a big win. And we think "I will win in the lottery, but the virus will not kill me!" Stochastics are a strange thing!
Coming back to my first thought: I will enjoy to use what I have and hope for all the people directly or indirectly affected by the corona outbreak that they will go through that crisis as good as possible and global medical science will find effective and efficient countermeasures!


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## Berowne (Mar 3, 2020)

I am living in Frankfurt am Main / West-Germany. Same situation here: (some) empty shelves in Super-Markets signal, that people are concerned. We should expect a serious situation, if the Corona-Virus will behave in a similar way as the Influenza-Virus. Luckily our Chancelor holds a PhD in Physics and her chief of staff is a Physician and Professor for Medicine. They have the mental capacity to understand what is going on and will manage this crisis - if it is going to develop in one. 

Photokina and a possible delay in the shipping of the EOS R5 is BTW the least i worry about.


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## Maximilian (Mar 3, 2020)

I wonder what would be, if the news media would report in the same way about INFLUENZA as they do right now about COVID-19.

I have no numbers from China about influenza there but for Germany we have per year about more than 150.000 confirmed infected and more than 20.000 dead because of influenza.
Right now we have less than 200 confirmed infected and nobody had died in Germany because of COVID-19.


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## BurningPlatform (Mar 3, 2020)

Maximilian said:


> I wonder what would be, if the news media would report in the same way about INFLUENZA as they do right now about COVID-19.
> 
> I have no numbers from China about influenza there but for Germany we have per year about more than 150.000 confirmed infected and more than 20.000 dead because of influenza.
> Right now we have less than 200 confirmed infected and nobody had died in Germany because of COVID-19.



Really? That death rate in Germany seems oddly high. This year's figures are 80000 confirmed infected, 130 dead. https://www.dw.com/en/massive-flu-wave-grips-germany/a-52445643


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## Berowne (Mar 3, 2020)

BurningPlatform said:


> Really? That death rate in Germany seems oddly high. This year's figures are 80000 confirmed infected, 130 dead. https://www.dw.com/en/massive-flu-wave-grips-germany/a-52445643



Influenza-Todesfälle (Germany)


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## Berowne (Mar 3, 2020)

Also, in the US the flu season usually accounts for 200,000 hospitalizations and 41,000 deaths.


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## LDS (Mar 3, 2020)

Maximilian said:


> I wonder what would be, if the news media would report in the same way about INFLUENZA as they do right now about COVID-19.



The problem with this virus is about 10% of ill people require intensive care - far more than plain influenza, and more concentrated - if there is a surge hospitals may start to have not enough beds available - and intensive care is still needed for other patients as well. That means physician need to start to decide who gets intensive care and who doesn't - depending on their chances to survive, as it happens anytime there are not enough resources to cure everybody.
And of course you have to add this to the influenza toll - which didn't go away, even if we have vaccines to protect people from influenza, especially medical personnel, while we don't have yet anything against COVID-19 - infected physician and nurses may become another problem. The situation is not tragic, but it's serious, enough serious special precautions have to be applied.

The impact on the economy won't be light - anyway it also showed well the risk to put too many eggs into one basket,. This time is a virus, next time could be something else.


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## Mahk43 (Mar 3, 2020)

I work in excavator industry in Europe, an industry composed with a minor percent of asian parts than cameras, but we decided to close the plant because of lack of parts. If the impact is to close a plant for us, I imagine the closing of every single plant (any industry) in Asia is just a matter of time (inventory of parts).

In every countries now I think their strategy is to wait for the warmer spring climate to see if it endigates the infection or not. If not, they will cancel all major events until end of the summer

Don't worry not to get your brand new R5 in time, you'll have nothing to shoot with


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## Joaquim (Mar 3, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> Is Canon *******?


Lol.
The real question though, is the world *******?
But more importantly, I hope all the nations of the world and even the anti socials can now see that all their silly threats and communal disharmony hold no water in the wake of a worldwide pandemic.
It's time we all finally united. Let's hope.


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## Quarkcharmed (Mar 3, 2020)

Joaquim said:


> The real question is the world *******?



If the world is *******, it's not because of Covid-19. Scared it is.


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## Maximilian (Mar 3, 2020)

BurningPlatform said:


> Really? That death rate in Germany seems oddly high. This year's figures are 80000 confirmed infected, 130 dead. https://www.dw.com/en/massive-flu-wave-grips-germany/a-52445643


This years influenza season (winter 2019/2020) has just begun. It seems you are referring to those numbers.

I took my numbers from one of the anual reports (2018/2019, German) from the German "Robert Koch Institute" which is a (the) German federal government agency and research institute responsible for disease control and prevention.

Typically the numbers of confirmed infected cases are lower than the real numbers, because not everyone is tested. And the high number of dead come also from secondary infections like pneumonia which cause most of the victims of influenza.


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## YuengLinger (Mar 3, 2020)

For the fearless, good opportunity to take photos at tourist spots usually too crowded. Unless those spots are closed...


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## Frederik_Bo (Mar 3, 2020)

Bennymiata said:


> In my personal opinion, I think people are overreacting to this disease, but we do have to be cautious, but not allow it to rule our lives



I don’t know man. I think it is very hard to judge. The Spanish flue had a mortality rate of 2,5 % of infected cases and it ended up killing 50 million people. 2,5% is very close to mortality rate of corona. This could be as serious as the Spanish flue. 
Let’s hope summer and modern medicine will help us.


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## Adelino (Mar 3, 2020)

This time it's not just Canon, we are ALLdooomed!


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## JGalicki (Mar 3, 2020)

I wonder if this will have an impact on the 1DX III shipments? I've ordered mine a while back and it's still on back order. I'm told the first shipment was quite small.


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## YuengLinger (Mar 3, 2020)

JGalicki said:


> I wonder if this will have an impact on the 1DX III shipments? I've ordered mine a while back and it's still on back order. I'm told the first shipment was quite small.



Maybe more "bugs" than usual in the first production run.


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## Rassmus (Mar 3, 2020)

Just read in the newspaper that the olympiq games might get delayed to the end of 2020 quoting people from the og comuté


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## David_E (Mar 3, 2020)

joestopper said:


> _But that is not the point.
> The point is: We have to wait longer until we can hold our new R5 in our hands ..._


What a tragedy for us. My condolences for us. Truly, the saddest part of this plague is not the untimely loss of loved ones, breadwinners who will leave starving children behind, and the like. The real pain is borne by wealthy people like you and me, who are likely to suffer delays in our acquisitions of luxury goods.


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## Architect1776 (Mar 3, 2020)

Frederik_Bo said:


> I don’t know man. I think it is very hard to judge. The Spanish flue had a mortality rate of 2,5 % of infected cases and it ended up killing 50 million people. 2,5% is very close to mortality rate of corona. This could be as serious as the Spanish flue.
> Let’s hope summer and modern medicine will help us.



Everyone seems to foget the H1N1 pandemic of 2009-2010 killed over 400,000 people and there were over 60 million reported cases and over 12,000 deaths alone in the USA and unusually over 80% were of people UNDER 65 not like the current that old and chronically sick are the susceptible.
This Corona by comparison is nothing and will likely fade fairly quickly as they are already introducing a vaccine and the Swiss have been on top of it as well working with the USA.


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## Mahk43 (Mar 3, 2020)

JGalicki said:


> I wonder if this will have an impact on the 1DX III shipments? I've ordered mine a while back and it's still on back order. I'm told the first shipment was quite small.



Logistics are still working quite well also with infected countries so if your camera is allready built and packed, should be delivered on time
But if not...


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## jam05 (Mar 3, 2020)

Olympics may be cancelled


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## tmc784 (Mar 3, 2020)

Move back factories, problems solved. !


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## Franklyok (Mar 3, 2020)

Lets skip more: olympics, all other trade shows. 

How cool impact on economy would that be?


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## Kit. (Mar 3, 2020)

Rassmus said:


> Just read in the newspaper that the olympiq games might get delayed to the end of 2020 quoting people from the og comuté


On a positive note... then Canon might be able to deliver R1 before the Olympics.


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## cayenne (Mar 3, 2020)

sanj said:


> On a different note, when he does so many video's, why is the lighting so bad? Her look in close up is all wrong. Hmmm. Northrup if you are seeing this let me know and I will fix it all for you for the future!



I think it is just her....not so much the lighting....
[ducks, runs for cover]

jk


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## Kit Lens Jockey (Mar 3, 2020)

Architect1776 said:


> Everyone seems to foget the H1N1 pandemic of 2009-2010 killed over 400,000 people and there were over 60 million reported cases and over 12,000 deaths alone in the USA and unusually over 80% were of people UNDER 65 not like the current that old and chronically sick are the susceptible.
> This Corona by comparison is nothing and will likely fade fairly quickly as they are already introducing a vaccine and the Swiss have been on top of it as well working with the USA.


H1N1 had a death rate of about 0.02% of people who caught it. While the data on COVID-19 is still new, it's thought to be about 2%.

So, if this spreads as easily as H1N1 but is confirmed to be about 100 times more deadly, yes, I'd say it's worth concern.









How novel coronavirus compares to SARS, MERS and other recent viral outbreaks


The novel coronavirus has caused a lot of people to worry, but we've been down this road before with SARS, MERS and the swine flu.




abcnews.go.com


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## Frederik_Bo (Mar 3, 2020)

Architect1776 said:


> Everyone seems to foget the H1N1 pandemic of 2009-2010 killed over 400,000 people and there were over 60 million reported cases and over 12,000 deaths alone in the USA and unusually over 80% were of people UNDER 65 not like the current that old and chronically sick are the susceptible.
> This Corona by comparison is nothing and will likely fade fairly quickly as they are already introducing a vaccine and the Swiss have been on top of it as well working with the USA.



If you are looking at a virus that is already played out, then the absolute numbers can easily look very dramatic. The typical flue looks pretty dramatic, when viewed in absolute numbers. What you are missing is that the estimated mortality rate of H1N1was 0,01%-0,08%, where as the current estimated mortality rate of corona is just above 2%.
If current mortality rate estimates are correct and corona infects as many people as H1N1 did, then we are looking at death tolls that will absolutely dwarf the swine flue epidemic of 2009.

Mortality estimates could easily be way off though and luckily summer is just around the corner. There is a good chance, that warmer weather will slow down the spread.


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## Berowne (Mar 3, 2020)

Frederik_Bo said:


> .... There is a good chance, that warmer weather will slow down the spread.



Another reason to hope for sunshine. But remember, this virus-guy is out in the wild and the next winter will come.


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## sanj (Mar 3, 2020)

Mahk43 said:


> Logistics are still working quite well also with infected countries so if your camera is allready built and packed, should be delivered on time
> But if not...


If it is built and packed, why is it not being shipped? Would not Canon want ROI as early as can?


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## joestopper (Mar 3, 2020)

David_E said:


> What a tragedy for us. My condolences for us. Truly, the saddest part of this plague is not the untimely loss of loved ones, breadwinners who will leave starving children behind, and the like. The real pain is borne by wealthy people like you and me, who are likely to suffer delays in our acquisitions of luxury goods.



If you cannot read the irony in posts then abstain from replying and from accusing me with absurd statements.


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## robotfist (Mar 3, 2020)

Crazy. I wonder if this will impact deliveries of the C500 II. They still haven't filled the orders that people made back in December for those cameras.


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## Frederik_Bo (Mar 3, 2020)

Berowne said:


> Another reason to hope for sunshine. But remember, this virus-guy is out in the wild and the next winter will come.


Hopefully we will have a vaccine by then.


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## sanj (Mar 3, 2020)

Berowne said:


> Another reason to hope for sunshine. But remember, this virus-guy is out in the wild and the next winter will come.


In my understanding - Virus, unlike bacteria is not affected by temperatures that we can survive in.


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## Kit Lens Jockey (Mar 3, 2020)

Yes, there is no evidence to support that this will go away when the weather warms up.









Will Warmer Weather Stop the Spread of the Coronavirus?


Several new studies provide some hope that the heat might slow the virus




time.com


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## Kit Lens Jockey (Mar 3, 2020)

Frederik_Bo said:


> Hopefully we will have a vaccine by then.


It's unlikely that we'll have a vaccine ready to distribute to the public for a year from now at the absolute least.









Health experts warn life-saving coronavirus vaccine still years away


As the world braces for a potential pandemic, health experts say a coronavirus vaccine could take years.




abcnews.go.com


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## Frederik_Bo (Mar 3, 2020)

sanj said:


> In my understanding - Virus, unlike bacteria is not affected by temperatures that we can survive in.



I am not a doctor or a biologist, so I am not sure exactly how it works, but I believe there’s a lot that goes in to how viruses spread. It might not be the warm weather that directly effect the survivability of the virus, but rather how easily it travels from one host to next.
Just the fact that people spend less time indoors, close to other people, in the summer time makes it harder for infections to spread.
But as others have mentioned, there’s no guarantee that summer will actually slow the spread.


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## Rule556 (Mar 3, 2020)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> The economic impact of the Corona virus is not only going to impact supply chains, but sales. People will not be traveling, I'd give the Olympics a 80% chance of being cancelled. Its already caused my orders from China to be put on hold. Truck drivers are going to stop all but essential hauling of food and medical supplies, its going to be horrible. I don't live near Seattle, but my son sent photos of a grocery store stripped of long term essentials, just empty shelves.



I'm in Seattle... Currently things are calm, other than jerks buying racks of cleaning stuff to sell online, but we're all waiting for the other shoe to drop.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 3, 2020)

Rule556 said:


> I'm in Seattle... Currently things are calm, other than jerks buying racks of cleaning stuff to sell online, but we're all waiting for the other shoe to drop.


We are from Seattle, and my wife was there yesterday. People are hoarding and not just to sell online. Its happening around the world, in fact. So far, its not like you can't get needed food, but we can see what fear does by looking at severely affected countries. They are forced to stay in their homes, and minimal groceries are delivered. Lots of people want to have the ability to go for weeks and months without leaving home, and stores can not do that if everyone panics.

At our local Costco here in Spokane, things like toilet paper, peanut butter, bottled water, crackers, cleaning wipes were almost gone by noon. Fear is a powerful thing, even if its irrational.


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## Ozarker (Mar 3, 2020)

David_E said:


> What a tragedy for us. My condolences for us. Truly, the saddest part of this plague is not the untimely loss of loved ones, breadwinners who will leave starving children behind, and the like. The real pain is borne by wealthy people like you and me, who are likely to suffer delays in our acquisitions of luxury goods.


I am glad to meet another human being who gets the point. People tend not to care as long as something doesn't kill somebody they love. That's sad. Maybe it has always been this way, but compassion seems to be in very short supply and selfishness seems to reign supreme.


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## Rule556 (Mar 3, 2020)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> We are from Seattle, and my wife was there yesterday. People are hoarding and not just to sell online. Its happening around the world, in fact. So far, its not like you can't get needed food, but we can see what fear does by looking at severely affected countries. They are forced to stay in their homes, and minimal groceries are delivered. Lots of people want to have the ability to go for weeks and months without leaving home, and stores can not do that if everyone panics.
> 
> At our local Costco here in Spokane, things like toilet paper, peanut butter, bottled water, crackers, cleaning wipes were almost gone by noon. Fear is a powerful thing, even if its irrational.



Yeah... We're definitely seeing the same thing here, but for the most part, other than people stocking up, it's just kind of eerily quiet.


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## Don Haines (Mar 3, 2020)

around here, the only hoarding (so far) seems to be hand sanitizer and face masks.

the shelves seem to be full at the local stores.....

that said, I think I will stock up some emergency supplies on the way home tonight, no beer left! I think I will pick up a case of Corona


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## dwarven (Mar 3, 2020)

I think it's funny how hand sanitizer, rubbing alcohol and face masks are the things selling out, but soap is still in stock everywhere. The thing that is most effective in combating the virus. Good old soap and water.


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## Don Haines (Mar 3, 2020)

dwarven said:


> I think it's funny how hand sanitizer, rubbing alcohol and face masks are the things selling out, but soap is still in stock everywhere. The thing that is most effective in combating the virus. Good old soap and water.


Yeah.... does not make sense!

i have been stocking up camping food for the summer. I make huge pots of things like chilli or spaghetti sauce, freeze half, and the rest through the food dehydrator..... just like I have done for the last 40 springs.... no hoarding here, as a canoe tripper it is normal to prepare at least a months food in advance.

if are normally stocked for at least a month, then you are well prepared for whatever may come, so if something drastic happens, you do not have to be one of the panicky people.... you can stay home and leave the dwindling supplies to those who are less prepared

.


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## Berowne (Mar 3, 2020)

sanj said:


> In my understanding - Virus, unlike bacteria is not affected by temperatures that we can survive in.



Sanj, The exact mechanism behind the seasonal nature of influenza outbreaks is unknown. But tempreature differences may play a role. 

Greetings Andy


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## Hector1970 (Mar 3, 2020)

Don Haines said:


> around here, the only hoarding (so far) seems to be hand sanitizer and face masks.
> 
> the shelves seem to be full at the local stores.....
> 
> that said, I think I will stock up some emergency supplies on the way home tonight, no beer left! I think I will pick up a case of Corona


I was reading an article about Corona. There had been an expectation sales of Corona would be hit due to its name but its been the opposite.
Corona sales have been up 5% since the virus hit.


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## Ozarker (Mar 3, 2020)

Hector1970 said:


> I was reading an article about Corona. There had been an expectation sales of Corona would be hit due to its name but its been the opposite.
> Corona sales have been up 5% since the virus hit.


Just the opposite of what happened to Ayds diet candy in the early 1980's. They went out of business.


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## Quarkcharmed (Mar 3, 2020)

Kit Lens Jockey said:


> H1N1 had a death rate of about 0.02% of people who caught it. While the data on COVID-19 is still new, it's thought to be about 2%.



A recent study shows that case fatality rate from Covid-19 is less than 1%. They compare it to a severe influenza.


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## Rule556 (Mar 4, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> A recent study shows that case fatality rate from Covid-19 is less than 1%. They compare it to a severe influenza.


To be fair, it's tough to know until we're deeper into the epidemic. Still, there's a huge difference between <1% and .02%. In a population of one million people, that's a difference of about 8,000 people, or about 8 million people in a population of a billion if my math is correct.


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## Kit Lens Jockey (Mar 4, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> A recent study shows that case fatality rate from Covid-19 is less than 1%. They compare it to a severe influenza.



From that study:

"If one assumes that the number of asymptomatic or minimally symptomatic cases is several times as high as the number of reported cases, the case fatality rate may be considerably less than 1%."

Everything anyone concludes at this point is based on big assumptions because we just don't have reliable data to go on at this early stage of things. A year or two from now we will be able to look back on this and know, but for now, we don't. Even a fancy study doesn't. So the only answer is to use the utmost of caution.


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## davidhfe (Mar 4, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> A recent study shows that case fatality rate from Covid-19 is less than 1%. They compare it to a severe influenza.



Well since we're way off topic, that's an editorial article (albeit in the NEJM) not a study, and there are quite a few qualifiers in there "If one assumes" "it may be". The reality is the denominator (total cases) is not known, and the two largest countries involved both have political realities that call in to question numbers being reported.

As a point of comparison, WHO is currently saying a mortality of 3.4% in reported cases. Again *we do not know the true number of cases, so it's impossible to say with certainty that this is no worse than a serious flu. *And keep in mind, a "serious flu" infected 27% of the world population in 1919, killing 40 million. Cold comfort.

(no pun intended)


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## Quarkcharmed (Mar 4, 2020)

davidhfe said:


> As a point of comparison, WHO is currently saying a mortality of 3.4% in reported cases.


I'm not sure if they are saying that. You get 3.4% if you simply divide the number of total deaths by the number of cases. https://www.who.int/docs/default-so...ation-reports/20200302-sitrep-42-covid-19.pdf

But 3.4% doesn't tell you the chance of dying after you catch the virus. 3.4% is *not* the case fatality rate. Case fatality rate is what interests people the most.


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## felipeolveram (Mar 4, 2020)

Canon this is what happens when you take too long to come out with products, just release them already


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## sanj (Mar 4, 2020)

Berowne said:


> Sanj, The exact mechanism behind the seasonal nature of influenza outbreaks is unknown. But tempreature differences may play a role.
> 
> Greetings Andy


Thank you Andy. Understand. Greetings.


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## navastronia (Mar 4, 2020)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> We are from Seattle, and my wife was there yesterday. People are hoarding and not just to sell online. Its happening around the world, in fact. So far, its not like you can't get needed food, but we can see what fear does by looking at severely affected countries. They are forced to stay in their homes, and minimal groceries are delivered. Lots of people want to have the ability to go for weeks and months without leaving home, and stores can not do that if everyone panics.
> 
> At our local Costco here in Spokane, things like toilet paper, peanut butter, bottled water, crackers, cleaning wipes were almost gone by noon. Fear is a powerful thing, even if its irrational.



*maybe _especially_ if it's irrational? Hmm.


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## sanj (Mar 4, 2020)

felipeolveram said:


> Canon this is what happens when you take too long to come out with products, just release them already


Canonavirus. I have had it for years and it has killed me many times. No antidote. Not even Liecavirus.


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## Bennymiata (Mar 4, 2020)

What about all of those who have large car collections.
They have Car Owner Virus.


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## brad-man (Mar 4, 2020)

sanj said:


> Canonavirus. I have had it for years and it has killed me many times. No antidote. Not even Liecavirus.


It certainly has been fatal for my bank account...


Bennymiata said:


> What about all of those who have large car collections.
> They have Car Owner Virus.


I bet you have a million of 'em...


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## Mahk43 (Mar 4, 2020)

sanj said:


> If it is built and packed, why is it not being shipped? Would not Canon want ROI as early as can?



For what I know of mass production, they make big batchs. they produce, control, pack, and then they wait the whole batch finished and ready to ship everything. They can't ship cameras one by one, it would be too expensive, they use boat and full containers.
It is even more true for brand new products launching, as they ship to the locals canon dealers in each continents. It take time, they use boats, it is long, everything cannot be synchronized. Then they wait every continent has received the first batchs of products to make the final delivery to local stores in the same time (more or less depending what they promises to the final customers)
So there is a good chance your camera is allready produced, but waiting in Asia or in your dealer's warehouse, waiting everthing is ready for final ship.


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## Mahk43 (Mar 4, 2020)

sanj said:


> In my understanding - Virus, unlike bacteria is not affected by temperatures that we can survive in.





Kit Lens Jockey said:


> Yes, there is no evidence to support that this will go away when the weather warms up.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



In the past, they've observed a lower level of contamination during warmer period but they cannot explain it as for some countries warmer all the time, there are contaminations (seems to be warmer but also wet countries).
The reason would not be the strenght of the virus or bacteria itself but the habit of people, that live more outside, with benefit of sun and dry climate that make them stronger and slow the contamination.


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## Quackator (Mar 4, 2020)

sanj said:


> If it is built and packed, why is it not being shipped? Would not Canon want ROI as early as can?



Canon wants to meet initial demand globally at once.
First wave of buyers usually buys at suggested retail price,
and if you start sales all over the world on a specific day, you 
make everybody a first wave buyer, buying at full release price.

This is much more profitable and limits fraud and blackmarket 
sales at the same time.

So cameras are shipped to all licensed pro dealers a few days 
in advance with a sales embargo until the launch day.
Sell a day early, and you will never be able to buy from Canon again.


A few months after the launch, the price drops to their
projected sustained sales target price, grabbing the second 
wave of buyers. And near the end of life for this product, the
price drops to stock clearing price level.

At every of these levels, Canon makes a profit.
Unit production price and retail price are only very 
loosely connected.


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## Quarkcharmed (Mar 4, 2020)

Mahk43 said:


> So there is a good chance your camera is allready produced


And mine? Mine too?


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## Architect1776 (Mar 4, 2020)

Kit Lens Jockey said:


> H1N1 had a death rate of about 0.02% of people who caught it. While the data on COVID-19 is still new, it's thought to be about 2%.
> 
> So, if this spreads as easily as H1N1 but is confirmed to be about 100 times more deadly, yes, I'd say it's worth concern.
> 
> ...



It is not spreading as the H1N1. Most all who have died , thus skewing the percent are old and chronically ill who would die from a cold anyway. As I said the H1N1 killed young healthy people that it is NOT doing so now. Many have had it, not known it and got well with NO treatment.


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## Architect1776 (Mar 4, 2020)

Frederik_Bo said:


> If you are looking at a virus that is already played out, then the absolute numbers can easily look very dramatic. The typical flue looks pretty dramatic, when viewed in absolute numbers. What you are missing is that the estimated mortality rate of H1N1was 0,01%-0,08%, where as the current estimated mortality rate of corona is just above 2%.
> If current mortality rate estimates are correct and corona infects as many people as H1N1 did, then we are looking at death tolls that will absolutely dwarf the swine flue epidemic of 2009.
> 
> Mortality estimates could easily be way off though and luckily summer is just around the corner. There is a good chance, that warmer weather will slow down the spread.



As I stated previously. The H1N1 killed young healthy people by 80%. The Corona so far has killed old chronically ill and weak people who would have died from a cold. There is a huge difference in population affected. PS for those history challenged people, We still have the Spanish flu of 100 years ago being fought to this day.


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## Kit Lens Jockey (Mar 4, 2020)

Architect1776 said:


> It is not spreading as the H1N1.


It is still far too early to say that, being that we are only a few months into the epidemic, and a lot of places like the US don't even have widespread testing ready for it.



Architect1776 said:


> Most all who have died , thus skewing the percent are old and chronically ill who would die from a cold anyway.


This isn't very well worded, but I think what you're saying is that because it kills old people, that skews the percentage. But it doesn't skew anything. If you get it, and you die, that determines its mortality rate. It doesn't matter if you're old, young, healthy, unhealthy, or whatever.



Architect1776 said:


> As I said the H1N1 killed young healthy people that it is NOT doing so now. Many have had it, not known it and got well with NO treatment.


This is a double edged sword. In one case, it does suggest that maybe we are under-counting cases, meaning the mortality rate would be lower, since there are actually more people overall that are getting it.

But on the other hand, the idea that people may have it without even knowing it is a problem because then they are also spreading it to more people without knowing it.

You are making a ton of assumptions when it is still far too early to make them based on the data we have. The fact is we just don't know enough about it yet to know how bad it is or will be, so the only reasonable reaction right now is utmost caution. Because it will look pretty bad if it turns out to be bad, and we look back to the beginning of when it began to spread and realize that we did not take it seriously in the beginning.


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## Frederik_Bo (Mar 4, 2020)

Architect1776 said:


> As I stated previously. The H1N1 killed young healthy people by 80%. The Corona so far has killed old chronically ill and weak people who would have died from a cold. There is a huge difference in population affected. PS for those history challenged people, We still have the Spanish flu of 100 years ago being fought to this day.



Well old people are people too.
But I hope you are right, that everyone is just overreacting. But to me the mortality rates reported so far are super scary.


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## Architect1776 (Mar 4, 2020)

Kit Lens Jockey said:


> It is still far too early to say that, being that we are only a few months into the epidemic, and a lot of places like the US don't even have widespread testing ready for it.
> 
> 
> This isn't very well worded, but I think what you're saying is that because it kills old people, that skews the percentage. But it doesn't skew anything. If you get it, and you die, that determines its mortality rate. It doesn't matter if you're old, young, healthy, unhealthy, or whatever.
> ...



Believe as you wish, I have lived through over a dozen of theses scares, none have panned out as the media have predicted. I look at this compared to other far more deadly viruses and really do not see anything to panic about in any way. PS, I work in the healthcare industry.


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## Kit Lens Jockey (Mar 4, 2020)

Architect1776 said:


> Believe as you wish, I have lived through over a dozen of theses scares, none have panned out as the media have predicted. I look at this compared to other far more deadly viruses and really do not see anything to panic about in any way. PS, I work in the healthcare industry.


I'm not "believing" anything. That is the whole point. I'm not making any assumptions or beliefs about it the way that you are.

I'm accepting the fact that we don't know enough about this to be able to determine how dangerous it is or isn't at this point. So the prudent response is to exercise caution as if it is dangerous, because the cost of treating it as if it were not dangerous would be too great if it turns out that it is dangerous.

And honestly I don't care what you do unless it's specifically related to expertise in infectious diseases. And along with that, I am listening to the messaging coming from the CDC themselves, not the media's spin on it.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 4, 2020)

Quarkcharmed said:


> A recent study shows that case fatality rate from Covid-19 is less than 1%. They compare it to a severe influenza.


As of right now, the most accurate count is 94,250 confirmed cases, 3,214 deaths. thats 3.41%. That number has been creeping up from the original 2%.

Other studies are not using facts, but assumptions . We have to go by the real numbers and not guess how many may not be reported. Of course, there are unreported cases as well as unreported deaths, but a guess is just that.

Its also true that older people who are often frail or have underlying illness are seeing 10-15% mortality while few children get it.

To get the facts and do the math yourself, check here. Its updated regularly, but will always be behind the exact numbers.





__





ArcGIS Dashboards Classic







gisanddata.maps.arcgis.com


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## Ozarker (Mar 4, 2020)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> As of right now, the most accurate count is 94,250 confirmed cases, 3,214 deaths. thats 3.41%. That number has been creeping up from the original 2%.
> 
> Other studies are not using facts, but assumptions . We have to go by the real numbers and not guess how many may not be reported. Of course, there are unreported cases as well as unreported deaths, but a guess is just that.
> 
> ...


The worst part of all this, for me, are the people saying, "Yeah, but it's just the old and the weak so it's not so bad" Sometimes I can hardly believe what I'm reading. Not necessarily here, but all over the web. The way some people word things sometimes indicates to me that it is going to get scarier the older I get. People seem to forget that they will also get old or weak one day. I see this attitude so much that I have stopped marveling at the fact that many seniors and disabled in nursing homes never get visitors, though they have family in the same town. Some of the sick and dying among us are truly alone. Very sad.


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## Architect1776 (Mar 4, 2020)

Kit Lens Jockey said:


> I'm not "believing" anything. That is the whole point. I'm not making any assumptions or beliefs about it the way that you are.
> 
> I'm accepting the fact that we don't know enough about this to be able to determine how dangerous it is or isn't at this point. So the prudent response is to exercise caution as if it is dangerous, because the cost of treating it as if it were not dangerous would be too great if it turns out that it is dangerous.
> 
> And honestly I don't care what you do unless it's specifically related to expertise in infectious diseases. And along with that, I am listening to the messaging coming from the CDC themselves, not the media's spin on it.



Whatever.


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## Rule556 (Mar 4, 2020)

Kit Lens Jockey said:


> I'm not "believing" anything. That is the whole point. I'm not making any assumptions or beliefs about it the way that you are.
> 
> I'm accepting the fact that we don't know enough about this to be able to determine how dangerous it is or isn't at this point. So the prudent response is to exercise caution as if it is dangerous, because the cost of treating it as if it were not dangerous would be too great if it turns out that it is dangerous.
> 
> And honestly I don't care what you do unless it's specifically related to expertise in infectious diseases. And along with that, I am listening to the messaging coming from the CDC themselves, not the media's spin on it.



Exactly. I hope it's just a tempest in a teapot, but I'm washing my hands like it's the black plague. I have worked in hazard mitigation, which is where my education was focused, and I know how bad a real pandemic could potentially get. I'd rather be careful than not. There's no need to panic, but there is need for people to be aware, be prepared, and do things in their daily life to lessen the potential spread of this virus. Regardless of how bad it ends up being in retrospect.


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## YuengLinger (Mar 4, 2020)

Our family has 100% stopped eating out, and we are sending handwipes with the kids to school.

Wildly, we've just learned this week that the elementary schools in our county have long abandoned providing time or encouragement to kids to wash their hands before lunch--where pretty much 100% of kids are eating sandwiches at least once a week. These are government run schools.  

Now parents have started an email campaign that has already hit the local news, and hopefully we'll get some common sense practices implemented.


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## AlanF (Mar 4, 2020)

YuengLinger said:


> Our family has 100% stopped eating out, and we are sending handwipes with the kids to school.
> 
> Wildly, we've just learned this week that the elementary schools in our county have long abandoned providing time or encouragement to kids to wash their hands before lunch--where pretty much 100% of kids are eating sandwiches at least once a week. These are government run schools.
> 
> Now parents have started an email campaign that has already hit the local news, and hopefully we'll get some common sense practices implemented.


They will need to sanitise the keyboard or touchscreen for emailing.


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## YuengLinger (Mar 4, 2020)

AlanF said:


> They will need to sanitise the keyboard or touchscreen for emailing.


In any event, the dark cloud of the corona virus got the parents talking to the schoolboard, and the schoolboard might start at least talking about basic hygiene, something they abandoned some time ago. Whether it's to reduce the spread of a new virus or just the same old GI and flu bugs, handwashing is a basic element of civilization.


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## AlanF (Mar 4, 2020)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> As of right now, the most accurate count is 94,250 confirmed cases, 3,214 deaths. thats 3.41%. That number has been creeping up from the original 2%.
> 
> Other studies are not using facts, but assumptions . We have to go by the real numbers and not guess how many may not be reported. Of course, there are unreported cases as well as unreported deaths, but a guess is just that.
> 
> ...


The number of cases is probably significantly underestimated because of those with very mild cases who don’t realise they have had the virus. What is more real is that about 15% of 80-90 year olds don’t survive.


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## Quirkz (Mar 5, 2020)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> At our local Costco here in Spokane, things like toilet paper, peanut butter, bottled water, crackers, cleaning wipes were almost gone by noon. Fear is a powerful thing, even if its irrational.



Very American in that peanut butter, like bottled water and toilet paper, is one of life’s necessities


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## Kit. (Mar 5, 2020)

Quirkz said:


> Very American in that peanut butter, like bottled water and toilet paper, is one of life’s necessities


I blame the Internet. During the era of paper press, one could still survive without toilet paper.


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## YuengLinger (Mar 5, 2020)

Aren't touchscreens especially germ ridden?


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## AlanF (Mar 5, 2020)

YuengLinger said:


> Aren't touchscreens especially germ ridden?


Yes. Our doctors' surgery has one for patients to register themselves as they enter the waiting room. The sanitiser gel dispenser was around the corner over a radiator so it was dried out even if you could find it. I would use the middle knuckle of my left hand, but I wouldn't evendo that now. Maybe I'm paranoid, but at least I am still here.


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## brad-man (Mar 5, 2020)

What about door knobs/handles? They can't be good...


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## AlanF (Mar 5, 2020)

brad-man said:


> What about door knobs/handles? They can't be good...


The best advice so far is to wash your hands well with soap and water often during the day and avoid touching your face.


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## jprusa (Mar 5, 2020)

AlanF said:


> Yes. Our doctors' surgery has one for patients to register themselves as they enter the waiting room. The sanitiser gel dispenser was around the corner over a radiator so it was dried out even if you could find it. I would use the middle knuckle of my left hand, but I wouldn't evendo that now. Maybe I'm paranoid, but at least I am still here.


Yes and most of people have one in their pocket , after we wash our hands we get a phone call or text and we are back to square one.


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## Ozarker (Mar 5, 2020)

Quirkz said:


> Very American in that peanut butter, like bottled water and toilet paper, is one of life’s necessities


Well, it was invented here here in the Americas by the Azteks and Incas. High in protein. Stores a long time.


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## SteveC (Mar 5, 2020)

Quirkz said:


> Very American in that peanut butter, like bottled water and toilet paper, is one of life’s necessities



It's a good source of protein and packs a lot of calories, with a long shelf life.


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## Quirkz (Mar 5, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Well, it was invented here here in the Americas by the Azteks and Incas. High in protein. Stores a long time.


Huh. I didn’t know this. I hate peanut butter. My personal hell: trapped in a Coronavirus shelter with only peanut butter for sustenance.


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## Michael Clark (Mar 8, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> Well, it was invented here here in the Americas by the Azteks and Incas. High in protein. Stores a long time.



What? We were taught in school that peanut butter was invented by George Washington Carver so that cotton farmers would rotate their crops to replenish the soil and prevent the spread of the boll weevil?


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## Ozarker (Mar 8, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> What? We were taught in school that peanut butter was invented by George Washington Carver so that cotton farmers would rotate their crops to replenish the soil and prevent the spread of the boll weevil?


And your teachers would be wrong: https://www.nationalpeanutboard.org/peanut-info/who-invented-peanut-butter.htm Rotating the crops? Perhaps. Inventing peanut butter? Long before Carver's time. Centuries. The Aztec empire fell in August of 1531.


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## Michael Clark (Mar 9, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> And your teachers would be wrong: https://www.nationalpeanutboard.org/peanut-info/who-invented-peanut-butter.htm Rotating the crops? Perhaps. Inventing peanut butter? Long before Carver's time. Centuries. The Aztec empire fell in August of 1531.



The Aztecs did not invent peanut butter. They grew and used peanuts. What they made by grinding it up would not be recognizable to us today as peanut butter, which also contains sugars from honey, molasses, sugar cane, or corn syrup, salt, and additional oils beyond the oil extracted from the peanuts.

It is true that GWC did not invent peanut butter. It was a late 19th century creation, apparently from a Canadian chemist named Marcellus Gilmore Edson.


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## Ozarker (Mar 9, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> The Aztecs did not invent peanut butter. They grew and used peanuts. What they made by grinding it up would not be recognizable to us today as peanut butter, which also contains sugars from honey, molasses, sugar cane, or corn syrup, salt, and additional oils beyond the oil extracted from the peanuts.
> 
> It is true that GWC did not invent peanut butter. It was a late 19th century creation, apparently from a Canadian chemist named Marcellus Gilmore Edson.


And the national peanut board disagrees with you. Since you have absolutely no idea what the Aztec formula for peanut butter entailed, I'll side with the experts, not a camera rumor board hack chemist. My jar of Jiff says: Roasted peanuts and sugar with less that 2% of molasses, hydrogenated oils, soybean, salt, and mono and diglycerides. NONE of those less than 2% ingredients is needed to make peanut butter. It just takes peanuts. Since I used to work in the Jiff factory Jackson, Tennessee) when it was owned by P&G (pre-Smuckers), I know what I am talking about. Peanuts contain their own oils and have no need to have the cheaper oils added. The more valuable peanut oil is mostly extracted and replaced with cheap substitutes. So yes, the Aztecs and Inca invented peanut butter, not George Washington Carver nor your more recent claim of Marcellus Gilmore Edson, who mearly patented the product. He did NOT invent it... huge difference.


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## Kit Lens Jockey (Mar 9, 2020)

Page 1: Hey that coronavirus thing might affect Canon's camera production.

Page 6: Your knowledge of peanut butter is wholly inadequate.


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## Michael Clark (Mar 9, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> And the national peanut board disagrees with you. Since you have absolutely no idea what the Aztec formula for peanut butter entailed, I'll side with the experts, not a camera rumor board hack chemist. My jar of Jiff says: Roasted peanuts and sugar with less that 2% of molasses, hydrogenated oils, soybean, salt, and mono and diglycerides. NONE of those less than 2% ingredients is needed to make peanut butter. It just takes peanuts. Since I used to work in the Jiff factory Jackson, Tennessee) when it was owned by P&G (pre-Smuckers), I know what I am talking about. Peanuts contain their own oils and have no need to have the cheaper oils added. The more valuable peanut oil is mostly extracted and replaced with cheap substitutes. So yes, the Aztecs and Inca invented peanut butter, not George Washington Carver nor your more recent claim of Marcellus Gilmore Edson, who mearly patented the product. He did NOT invent it... huge difference.



I used to live in "The Peanut Capitol of the World", Dothan, AL, home of the National Peanut Festival and where the Alabama Peanut Producers Association has been doing business since 1956. They were the second such state based association. I still know folks who grow peanuts in the area. Those johnny-come-latelys in Atlanta (the national peanut board) were created by the Department of Agriculture in 2000.

*Marcellus Gilmore Edson* (February 7, 1849 – March 6, 1940) was issued United States patent 306727 (for peanut butter) in 1884, 116 years before The National Peanut Board was created.

PS, Skippy is better than JIF! It seems like if you worked for them you'd know Jif only has one "f".


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Mar 9, 2020)

I'm stocked with lots of peanut butter. I need to use more of it, I have trouble getting enough protein, beer seems to have so little.


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## Ozarker (Mar 9, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> I used to live in "The Peanut Capitol of the World", Dothan, AL, home of the National Peanut Festival and where the Alabama Peanut Producers Association has been doing business since 1956. They were the second such state based association. I still know folks who grow peanuts in the area. Those johnny-come-latelys in Atlanta (the national peanut board) were created by the Department of Agriculture in 2000.
> 
> *Marcellus Gilmore Edson* (February 7, 1849 – March 6, 1940) was issued United States patent 306727 (for peanut butter) in 1884, 116 years before The National Peanut Board was created.
> 
> PS, Skippy is better than JIF! It seems like if you worked for them you'd know Jif only has one "f".


Doesn't change the facts. Aztecs. You have a real history and aversion to ignoring facts. Now eat it. You have real problems, dude. You take a typo and conflate that into... nothing. You are wrong I am right. Now deal with it. Patent does not = invention. Breathlessly ignorant anal retentive. You should switch to Jif. Don't care who you know that grows peanuts. Patents are frequently issued to people who DID NOT invent the product. Duh. Don't be so thick. Then again, you are welcome to keep making a complete fool of yourself.

BTW: Edson patented a process. He did not invent or patent peanut butter. Period. End of story. One more think: Edson used his process to create candy... not peanut butter as a final product. That crown goes to Kellogg.


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## Jack Douglas (Mar 9, 2020)

I left this thread and should have stayed away. Now where are the rumours we're waiting for ... this is not a Canon Facts site ... surely there must be some rumours floating about! 

Jack


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## Kit. (Mar 9, 2020)

Michael Clark said:


> It seems like if you worked for them you'd know Jif only has one "f".


It is also pronounced with the hard G


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## flip314 (Mar 9, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> And your teachers would be wrong: https://www.nationalpeanutboard.org/peanut-info/who-invented-peanut-butter.htm Rotating the crops? Perhaps. Inventing peanut butter? Long before Carver's time. Centuries. The Aztec empire fell in August of 1531.



It's always hilarious to me that the only thing George Washington Carver is known (inventing peanut butter) for is not a thing he actually did.


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## Ozarker (Mar 9, 2020)

flip314 said:


> It's always hilarious to me that the only thing George Washington Carver is known (inventing peanut butter) for is not a thing he actually did.


Well, he actually accomplished a whole lot, he just never invented peanut butter. He was a great man.


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## Maximilian (Mar 9, 2020)

How about smearing some peanut butter on your front elements and try getting back on topic?


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## Ozarker (Mar 9, 2020)

Maximilian said:


> How about smearing some peanut butter on your front elements and try getting back on topic?


There hasn't been a topic in pages and pages.


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## Kit. (Mar 9, 2020)

Maximilian said:


> How about smearing some peanut butter on your front elements


What kind of filter is that, by the way?


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## Ozarker (Mar 9, 2020)

Kit. said:


> What kind of filter is that, by the way?


Jiffy lube


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## Maximilian (Mar 10, 2020)

Kit. said:


> What kind of filter is that, by the way?


Good question. I suppose some smooth and sweet bokeh filter - even in the in-focus areas


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## Maximilian (Mar 10, 2020)

CanonFanBoy said:


> There hasn't been a topic in pages and pages.


No reason not to try again


----------

