# 1Ds3 Changes on Canon USA Website



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 15, 2011)

```
<strong>1Ds Mark III on Canon USA</strong>

The 1Ds Mark III has <a href="http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductListingViewAll_10051_10051_-1_12164"><strong>disappeared</strong></a> from the Canon USA eStore. It doesnâ€™t necessarily mean anything, as they dont always sell all products there.<strong> </strong></p>
<p>The 1Ds Mark III is listed as <strong>â€œ<a href="http://shop.usa.canon.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CusaCatalogSearchResultView?searchTerm=1Ds&keyType=BCAT&catalogId=10051&searchType=SITE&catSize=1&catType1=CATEGORY1&catValue1=CAMERAS&gnSize=1&gnType1=&gnValue1=">not available</a>â€œ</strong> on the Canon USA site as well as <a href="http://www.northlight-images.co.uk/cameras/Canon_1DS_MkIV.html">NL</a> found out.</p>
<p><strong>CRs Take</strong>

I havent received any new information about a 1Ds3 replacement sooner rather than later. What I have heard more often lately is a new 1D camera. I wouldnâ€™t read too much into the above yet.<strong> </strong></p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong>
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## x-vision (Jan 15, 2011)

Hehehe. The 1DV is coming. 

Unexpected splash announcement as early as February ? ? ? ;D


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## spam (Jan 15, 2011)

Canon Rumors said:


> I wouldnâ€™t read too much into the above yet



The 1Ds really need a refresh, but it's more likely an error by some Canon employee using the weekend for website updates.


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## Bob Howland (Jan 15, 2011)

x-vision said:


> Hehehe. The 1DV is coming.
> 
> Unexpected splash announcement as early as February ? ? ? ;D



What if it isn't called a 1DMk5? My guess/wish is two FF bodies using a common small professional body, a new model to compete with the D3s and having 14-16MP at 8-10FPS (I'll take two!!) and the other, a 5DMk3, with 25-30MP at 4-6FPS. Prices: $3000 to $4000 each. However, they don't have to be introduced simultaneously. The new model could be introduced in next couple months and the 5DmK3 introduced in the Fall together with the 1DMk5 - the "Camera to Rule Them All". If both FF bodies are introduced this Spring, the 1D could be introduced with the 7DMk2, maybe using a derivative of the 1DMk4 sensor (i.e., bumped up to APS-H) and a variant of the same new body. Or maybe the 7DMk2 would be introduced next spring.

That scenario fits a lot of the previous rumors that have appeared here.


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## x-vision (Jan 16, 2011)

I think the 1DV name will be highly symbolic. 

The film EOS-1V is a very highly regarded model (the best camera Canon ever made ?), so the 1DV is a golden opportunity for Canon to launch a cheesy â€˜back to the futureâ€™ marketing campaign  .


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## logaandm (Jan 16, 2011)

I have followed Canon closely since I bought my 5D four years ago. I have seen the 5D claimed to be the best camera ever made, I bought the Mark II even with the "spots" and the claims that the D700 had much lower noise. Since that time I have learned much about cameras and imaging. I see two factors which Canon must surely be aware of:

1. AF has been an issue for Canon since before the 5D. The introduction of the D300 (which I owned) and it's AF which had all the same features as my old Canon EOS 3 film camera highlighted the deficiencies of the 5D and lower end AF systems. The 9 point system might be adequate to APS-C size sensors but it really doesn't work well for the larger sensor. The fiasco, real or imagined with the AF for the 1D IV has pushed the point home. Canon is clearly responding as demonstrated in the much better AF in the 7D.

In comparing to Nikon, many of the complains are debateable. Differnet processing techniques are mostly responsible for any percieved issues with noise. Nikons, except for the D3x are show uniformly less detail than even the old 12 megapixel 5D. These are choices each company has made in their approaches to making images. My observation is that on the whole the general opionion (not surprisingly) is that Nikons have less noise and Canons have more detail and that the differences in both are for the most part of minor concern.

Poor AF, on the otherhand is not a minor concern. In my opinon it is something Canon must address in all their higher end cameras. Their main user base is happy with the lens lineup, they are happy with the resoluition and the noise - they are almost uniformly not happy with the AF.

2. 5DII displacing the 1Ds. May pro's use the 5DII instead of the 1Ds. Since the image quality is almost identical and video is not all that important, the reasons are fairly obvious. The cost and weight differences over come the poorer build quality of the lower end camera compared to the 1D range.

These two points, AF and 5DII being preferred to the 1DsIII are the two largest issues Canon must first address. Nikon and Sony also give some indication of where the technology must go. Most of the other complaints, ergonomics, noise, AA filters, build tend to be periferal both to the the photographic market and to the making of photographs. I don't believe they are really the drivers.

My predition is the next FF camera will have:

AF system simlar or better than the 7D, perhaps it will be adjusted to the larger sensor size since upscaling the AF has not proven to be a good engineering solution.

Size similar to or slighly larger than the 5DII. Weather sealing and build comparable to, or similar to the 1D serices.

Megapixes similar to the pixel density in the 7D which is well proven. (Around 28M in FF). Smaller pixesl start to compromise dynamic range and push diffraction limits.

Pixel binning to achieve noise and processed noise levels similar to the best Nikon cameras.

In my view these are the issues Canon must address in order to maintain it's market lead in the pro market. The AF in the 7D and the number of new high resolution lenses such as the new 70-200, 100L macro suggest to me Canon is not about to lose that market because they can't or won't make a camera that addresses them.

A FF camera a bit larger than the 7D, with the same pixel density as the 7D, properly upscaled AF system similar to the 7D, slightly better processing to optimize high ISO photography and a little bit better build would have them lining up for years.


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## Bob Howland (Jan 16, 2011)

logaandm said:


> Megapixes similar to the pixel density in the 7D which is well proven. (Around 28M in FF). Smaller pixesl start to compromise dynamic range and push diffraction limits.



It's 46MP (i.e., 1.6 *1.6 *18MP), not 28MP.


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## EELinneman (Jan 16, 2011)

With 28 MP or more, it's clear that it's going to require a new processing chip to clear the sensor quickly enough to support any reasonable rate, i.e. 5 in the 5D III and higher 8 or 9 in a FF sports shooter. Any word on the DigicV yet?


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## studio1972 (Jan 16, 2011)

The 5D and 5DII don't do 5fps so I can't see why anybody would expect the 5DIII to do so?


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## Justin (Jan 16, 2011)

At this point it's clear we're getting all kinds of contradictory information. Therefore I think it's all fair game. Anything could happen and probably will. However I don't expect canon to innovate: only iterate.


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## Justin (Jan 17, 2011)

Canon AF needs help. I agree with this. What Canon really needs is something new, something that will take still photos to another level with dynamic range, detail, speed, noise characteristics and yes, auto focus performance for a dslr. Canon is getting major pressure from both sides of the Digital camera range: medium format with the new 645 pentax system and micro four thirds with panasonic and Olympus and soon. Nikon is getting closer to a mirrorless system. I got to say I'm very interested in the pentax and mirrorless systems. i still trust my 5d2 and canon lens system. but it doesn't do everything i want it to do. Its not fast for starters. Low iso banding is troubling. I want a smaller lighter system for travel, and a richer, improved IQ system that can help me in my pursuit of eventually making fine art.



logaandm said:


> I have followed Canon closely since I bought my 5D four years ago. I have seen the 5D claimed to be the best camera ever made, I bought the Mark II even with the "spots" and the claims that the D700 had much lower noise. Since that time I have learned much about cameras and imaging. I see two factors which Canon must surely be aware of:
> 
> 1. AF has been an issue for Canon since before the 5D. The introduction of the D300 (which I owned) and it's AF which had all the same features as my old Canon EOS 3 film camera highlighted the deficiencies of the 5D and lower end AF systems. The 9 point system might be adequate to APS-C size sensors but it really doesn't work well for the larger sensor. The fiasco, real or imagined with the AF for the 1D IV has pushed the point home. Canon is clearly responding as demonstrated in the much better AF in the 7D.
> 
> ...


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## UngerPhotography (Jan 17, 2011)

Justin said:


> At this point it's clear we're getting all kinds of contradictory information. Therefore I think it's all fair game. Anything could happen and probably will. However I don't expect canon to innovate: only iterate.



Exactly. Nothing is final or official here. Canon is not going to put out a garbage camera. It may not have exactly what some people are looking for, but that does not make it a bad camera. Try to remember that companies leap frog each other and that each new camera isn't always meant to be the next replacement for people who bought the previous camera. (Note: May not be as big of an advancement to make people buy up from the previous version). Granted it has been a while since the 1Ds MkIII, but I imagine this camera will be a step up from the 1Ds MkIII. 



Justin said:


> Canon AF needs help. I agree with this. What Canon really needs is something new, something that will take still photos to another level with dynamic range, detail, speed, noise characteristics and yes, auto focus performance for a dslr. Canon is getting major pressure from both sides of the Digital camera range: medium format with the new 645 pentax system and micro four thirds with panasonic and Olympus and soon. Nikon is getting closer to a mirrorless system. I got to say I'm very interested in the pentax and mirrorless systems. i still trust my 5d2 and canon lens system. but it doesn't do everything i want it to do. Its not fast for starters. Low iso banding is troubling. I want a smaller lighter system for travel, and a richer, improved IQ system that can help me in my pursuit of eventually making fine art.



I am not sure what problem people are having with Canon AF. My 5D has never failed my expectations. Are people trying to use all the AF points, or using a single AF point? And as for a smaller and lighter camera, maybe you should go with a Rebel. The current size of the 1D series and 5D with battery grip couldn't be better. The size, shape and weight give it a solid and sturdy feel, and anything less would make me feel like I was using a toy.


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## Lawliet (Jan 17, 2011)

UngerPhotography said:


> I am not sure what problem people are having with Canon AF. My 5D has never failed my expectations. Are people trying to use all the AF points, or using a single AF point?



A single off center point. The center one is fine, but leads to bad framing or broken by design metering, timing issues and the plane of focus topics.


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## Admin US West (Jan 17, 2011)

Lawliet said:


> A single off center point. The center one is fine, but leads to bad framing or broken by design metering, timing issues and the plane of focus topics.



Mine is great. I have a 1D MK III for birding and sports. Some people want the camera to do something other than what it was intended for, and complain when it doesn't.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 18, 2011)

UngerPhotography said:


> Not sure what you are shooting, but if it isn't fast action, you can always focus and recompose.



Sure you can, if you've got plenty of depth of field to play with. If you put a fast prime like the 85L on the 5DII, shoot wide open, and use the center AF point for focus/recompose, it works fine as long as you make sure that every subject you shoot is concave with a radius that matches the arc along which you recompose. Algebraic translation for the less geometrically-inclined: fast lens + focus/recompose = out-of-focus subject.


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## Justin (Jan 18, 2011)

Yup. Run into this problem often with my 35 1.4 wide open. 



neuroanatomist said:


> UngerPhotography said:
> 
> 
> > Not sure what you are shooting, but if it isn't fast action, you can always focus and recompose.
> ...


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## kubelik (Jan 18, 2011)

yeah, I agree as well; focus recompose can be problematic even with slow subject matter, depending on your DOF.

I think the idea that you need fast, multi-selectable AF points only when you're shooting action is a damaging one, because the more people that espouse it, the more justification Canon has for not putting top-quality AF into what should be top-tier cameras.

if you're out shooting weddings, which is exactly the niche that the 5DII has found itself in, it's rare that you have a wedding that involves "fast action". but, there'll be plenty of times in any wedding when the 5DII's central focus point (forget the outer ones) can't keep up in low light. and again, that's exactly the environment you will be shooting in. I love my 5DII, but I have to be honest, in low light it is slooow. even with a f/1.4 lens strapped to it.

is it possible to do great photography with the 5DII? absolutely. is it still a great camera even this close to the end of its life cycle? absolutely.

can it be (and should it be) vastly improved with a high quality AF system that makes it an even better tool for all photographers? absolutely yes, and to not ask for it is selling all of us short.


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## Film (Jan 18, 2011)

UngerPhotography said:


> Lawliet said:
> 
> 
> > A single off center point. The center one is fine, but leads to bad framing or broken by design metering, timing issues and the plane of focus topics.
> ...



OMG! Sometimes I really believe that invention of DIGITAL slr was a big mistake...


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## Film (Jan 18, 2011)

UngerPhotography said:


> Film said:
> 
> 
> > OMG! Sometimes I really believe that invention of DIGITAL slr was a big mistake...
> ...




No, I'm telling that before digital most of the photographers were putting a lot of effort in making pictures and the fact that you needed to put more effort in that than now kept others away from photography.


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## Lawliet (Jan 18, 2011)

UngerPhotography said:


> Not sure what you are shooting, but if it isn't fast action, you can always focus and recompose.



Focus&recompose not only shift DOF, but also makes light and flash metering invalid.
That "advise" is the source for most of the complaints about Canons unreliable metering. Nice job breaking it.



> Even with action, how do you know which off center point to use? I would think you might miss the shot trying to select the correct focus point. /quote]
> 
> Know what you're shooting, action is seldom random. Inertia is a harsh mistress!
> The diamond and the joystick are a perfect match, the ring of fire is quite fast too.
> ...


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## Grendel (Jan 18, 2011)

Lawliet said:


> Focus&recompose not only shift DOF, but also makes light and flash metering invalid.



I have moved the AF-ON functionality to the rear AF button on my cameras. Hitting the 1st shutter stage then will only meter. --> hit AF to focus, recompose if necessary, use the shutter to meter & shoot. For MF lenses w/ focus confirmation I usually move it back, easier to focus the lens while holding the shutter than the AF button.


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## Lawliet (Jan 18, 2011)

Thanks for demonstrating my point. 
Metering is now biased towards the area of the center point instead of the intended focus of attention. May Lady Luck smile upon you...


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## Grendel (Jan 19, 2011)

My cameras also have an AE/FE Lock button right next to the AF button in addition to the half shutter press that will lock exposure. And different metering modes. What else do you need ?


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## Lawliet (Jan 19, 2011)

The capability to meter the composition of the actual shot, preferable at the time I take the picture.
As well as not to fall victim to the focus shifts associated with recomposition.


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