# Canon 6D vs 5D MKII (Focusing?)



## Nitoruu (Nov 29, 2012)

Will the focusing system from the 6D be the same as the MKII or better?


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## verysimplejason (Nov 29, 2012)

On paper, 6D might have a better AF in the center point even better than higher-end bodies from Canon. In reality, it remains to be seen since only pre-production 6D bodies are the only one tested. Let's wait for the actual release. I'll be deciding what FF to get then. 5D3 is a little bit expensive for me considering I want to invest in more lenses.


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## M.ST (Nov 29, 2012)

5D Mark III (prototype)
+ better AF system
+ faster
+ shutter durability
+ C1 to C3
+ better body
+ no visible moire
+ AEB with 7 shots
- soft images
- JPG quality
- video quality and video output

6D (prototype)
+ better image quality at higher ISO than the 5D Mark III
+ AEB with 7 shots
= AF point is only better in low light at the paper (looks like a marketing gag)
- 11 AF points compared to 9 plus 6 assist AF points in the 5D Mark II
- visible moire
- soft images
- video quality and video output
- only SD card slot (in my opinion, I want cf cards)
- body quality
- only C1 to C2
- poor shutter durability compared to the price
- quick control dial

Conclusion: If you want an entry FF camera and don´t need more speed and better AF for tracking subjects get the 6D. 

Personal conclusion for both cameras: I don´t like the cameras and I am happy with my gear and two new prototypes.


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## verysimplejason (Nov 29, 2012)

M.ST said:


> 5D Mark III (prototype)
> + better AF system
> + faster
> + shutter durability
> ...



I would gladly exchange any of both bodies for your 1DS3.


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## Nitoruu (Nov 29, 2012)

Well I asked about the MKII not the MKIII. I have tested and tried out the MKIII and I can use it whenever from a friend. I am considering on buying a MKII or the 6D. I can see the price differences but if the focusing on the 6D is better then there is a chance that I might get the 6D. Latest news is that the are shipping out the 6D soon so I guess I will wait for the DRTV review. If they do not mention focusing on the review I will do more research.

But right now there is no mention on how the focusing will be if the MKII or the 6D will be better. I do wish that they did release another 6D without the GPS and WIFI and have the price drop a bit. Personally I find those useless.


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## Nitoruu (Nov 29, 2012)

EG-A II Focusing Screen.

While researching I stumbled upon this focusing screen for the 6D. If applied will the focusing be better? There is no mention or an actual review of what it does. All it states was that it "makes focusing easier." As in manual focusing easier? Because I don't see how that applies to manual focus


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## dpollitt (Nov 29, 2012)

Nitoruu said:


> EG-A II Focusing Screen.
> 
> While researching I stumbled upon this focusing screen for the 6D. If applied will the focusing be better? There is no mention or an actual review of what it does. All it states was that it "makes focusing easier." As in manual focusing easier? Because I don't see how that applies to manual focus



That is the standard clear focusing screen with no specific prism or assistance lines. It isn't going to make focusing better, it is a necessity to see through the viewfinder more or less. You could purchase additional focusing screens to assist with alignment of the image or using a manual lens. See this for more info on what a focusing screen is: http://photo.stackexchange.com/q/23862/4892


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## RLPhoto (Nov 29, 2012)

I expect both are wretched and If its any better than that, good work canon.


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## awinphoto (Nov 29, 2012)

RLPhoto said:


> I expect both are wretched and If its any better than that, good work canon.



under promise over deliver? Hopefully? =)


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## R1-7D (Nov 29, 2012)

I'm sure the 6D will focus just fine. I can't imagine it being worse than the 5D Mark II's, and in my opinion, the Mark II's isn't unusable by any means. 

I use a 5D Mark II, and to be honest, the focusing really isn't as bad as everyone makes it out to be. Sure the Mark III's is leagues away, but that doesn't mean the focusing of the Mark II is unusable. I've used mine to capture quite a few actions shots of animals, in particular dolphins swimming and jumping, and it kept up just fine. 

In pitch black I also just use my flash focus assist and the camera locks on in a second. 

I always manage to get the shots I want somehow on my "antiquated" system.


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## xps (Nov 30, 2012)

I had it in my hands today at an exhibition today in an city in the Alps.
My personal opinion:
-AF works well, gets sharp even when there is not much light. But it had also troubles when there is not much contrast. (Only the center AF got it. It was focussing 2 times near and far, then it got it correctly, as I could see). The live view was not the hit, slow... And the AF is not very fast. I tried the 5D3 next to it. it was much faster.
And: The AF fields are more horicontally orientated. So, if you try to focus on something that is higher than the middle of the picture, in landscape orientation it is difficult to get it focused. 

Got some shots. For me the camera was not exiting. (But it is my personal view)

But the most persons were interested in Nikon. Where Nikon presented the D600 und D800 everybody was interrested. And the D600 is really a good camera. Subjective as fast as the 5D3, very good image quality. The 5D3 shots were to much saturated, the D600 more naturally. And it was very fast in focussing and saving the pictures to the cards.

It is a pity that the 6D is more than 500€ more expensive than the D600. I would like the D600 if there would be an "Canon" sign on it


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## verysimplejason (Nov 30, 2012)

xps said:


> I had it in my hands today at an exhibition today in an city in the Alps.
> My personal opinion:
> -AF works well, gets sharp even when there is not much light. But it had also troubles when there is not much contrast. (Only the center AF got it. It was focussing 2 times near and far, then it got it correctly, as I could see). The live view was not the hit, slow... And the AF is not very fast. I tried the 5D3 next to it. it was much faster.
> And: The AF fields are more horicontally orientated. So, if you try to focus on something that is higher than the middle of the picture, in landscape orientation it is difficult to get it focused.
> ...



6D is a lot cheaper here in Malaysia than Nikon D600. You can see here:
http://shashinki.com/

Stocks were gone on the first day.


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## Nitoruu (Nov 30, 2012)

xps said:


> I had it in my hands today at an exhibition today in an city in the Alps.
> My personal opinion:
> -AF works well, gets sharp even when there is not much light. But it had also troubles when there is not much contrast. (Only the center AF got it. It was focussing 2 times near and far, then it got it correctly, as I could see). The live view was not the hit, slow... And the AF is not very fast. I tried the 5D3 next to it. it was much faster.
> And: The AF fields are more horicontally orientated. So, if you try to focus on something that is higher than the middle of the picture, in landscape orientation it is difficult to get it focused.
> ...



Thanks for this. 

So can you be saying that the 6D and the 5DMKII are the same in focusing?


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## Marsu42 (Nov 30, 2012)

xps said:


> And the AF is not very fast. I tried the 5D3 next to it. it was much faster.



Oh my, there goes the neighborhood :-( ... if that's true then it's really a letdown, I had hoped at least with center point af it would be as fast as the 5d3 since they're both using the same digic5.

What you describe is really just an updated 5d2 with newer (i.e. cheaper for Canon) parts, newer firmware plus a $5 integrated wifi/gps chip.


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## xps (Dec 1, 2012)

As I wrote, that is my personal opinion. I took some shots. Not hundreds, just some.
I focused on high contrasted things, like an advertisement of nikon (  ) and on other, more low contrasting things. In my opinion the AF of the 5D3 was as fast as the 6Ds. (subjectively!). And it had its problem like the 5D3s on focussiong on an plane, lowcontrasted thing. Even in changing the AF field manually ( that the seller did not like, when i performed this)
And, for me, the AF-points are too much horizontally orientated. 

The Nikonians there told me, that the 6D is just "a shot out of the hip to react on their overwhelming camera"


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Dec 1, 2012)

Marsu42 said:


> xps said:
> 
> 
> > And the AF is not very fast. I tried the 5D3 next to it. it was much faster.
> ...



5D3 doesn't use the Digic for AF though, in fact, I don't think any Canon does. AFAIK they all use either share the main CPU (rebels,xxD, 5D,5D2) or a dedicated AF CPU (5D3/7D/many 1 series (perhaps not the very oldest????)). Technically the 1DX also uses a digic iv for AF, but only if all points are selected and you use the face and color tracking mode. Digics are used for dealing with the images.


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## hemidesign (Dec 3, 2012)

I tested both cameras.. 6D and 5Dmk2, and the 6D is way better than 5Dmk2.. 
I would say the center point from the 6D is supercharged.. WOW!.. Can't even compare with 5Dmk2
The new tech behind 6D with low light autofocus (-3EV) is a big improvement over any camera ever made.. IMO
You can really focus spot on in any light conditions.. impressive!!! And the images still sharp (using 85mm 1.2)
Btw, I really don't care if the camera has only 11 focus points.. I use the center point all the time (99.9%)..
My final words are.. the center point from the Canon 6D might be better for accuracy from any Canon camera ever build.. believe me, this thing is very powerful..
And the ISO performance BLOWS 5dmk2 and better then 5Dmk3


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## x-vision (Dec 4, 2012)

hemidesign said:


> My final words are.. the center point from the Canon 6D might be better for accuracy from any Canon camera ever build.. believe me, this thing is very powerful..


Hmm. LensRentals did a controlled test and the results don't support your enthusiasm.
In terms of AF accuracy, the 6D is closer to the 5DII than the 1DX/5DIII.


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## verysimplejason (Dec 4, 2012)

x-vision said:


> hemidesign said:
> 
> 
> > My final words are.. the center point from the Canon 6D might be better for accuracy from any Canon camera ever build.. believe me, this thing is very powerful..
> ...



5D2 and 6D AF are already amazing if you know how to use it. I'm sorry but I have to say it. We've got overwhelmed by the no. of AF points but what we don't realize is they don't matter much to these photographers. Just count how many have taken these with 5D2.

http://blogs.reuters.com/fullfocus/2012/11/30/best-photos-of-the-year-2012/#a=95


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## wickidwombat (Dec 4, 2012)

hemidesign said:


> I tested both cameras.. 6D and 5Dmk2, and the 6D is way better than 5Dmk2..
> I would say the center point from the 6D is supercharged.. WOW!.. Can't even compare with 5Dmk2
> The new tech behind 6D with low light autofocus (-3EV) is a big improvement over any camera ever made.. IMO
> You can really focus spot on in any light conditions.. impressive!!! And the images still sharp (using 85mm 1.2)
> ...



can you try the other points out in low light and see how they go? that was where the 5Dmk2 really fell over in a pile is those points were useless in low light


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## Woody (Dec 4, 2012)

x-vision said:


> Hmm. LensRentals did a controlled test and the results don't support your enthusiasm.
> In terms of AF accuracy, the 6D is closer to the 5DII than the 1DX/5DIII.



I don't think Roger Cicala was being consistent in the above article.

If we list the AF standard deviations of previous Canon cameras tested by Roger using the new 28 f/2.8 IS USM, this is what we get:

1DsIII 29
5D II 38.5
50D 34
7D 41
1DIV 22
60D 34
T3i 41
1Dx 17
5D III 17
T4i 29
6D 28

If we group them according to AF consistency of the center point, this is the result:
Tier 1: 1DX, 5D3... 1D4 trailing slightly
Tier 2: 6D, 1Ds3, T4i... 50D, 60D trailing slightly
Tier 3: 5D2, 7D, T3i

So, yes, the 6D beats out the 5D2 (and the 7D too... consistent with my experience).


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## Marsu42 (Dec 4, 2012)

Woody said:


> I don't think Roger Cicala was being consistent in the above article.



I'm not saying that he is wrong (and the lineup seems logical), but he only used one lens and also was fairly quick with the 6d af test - more samples might have given another sd, because looking at the graph there are 1-2 shots very much out of bounds which have been non-representative. But the main point remains: Very usable (center only), better than 5d2, worse than 5d3.


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## verysimplejason (Dec 4, 2012)

Woody said:


> x-vision said:
> 
> 
> > Hmm. LensRentals did a controlled test and the results don't support your enthusiasm.
> ...



I think it's the same as Roger Cicala's comment later in the thread.


> On December 1, 2012 at 6:55 AM
> LensRentals Employee
> Roger Cicala said:
> 
> ...


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## Woody (Dec 4, 2012)

verysimplejason said:


> I think it's the same as Roger Cicala's comment later in the thread.



Thanks for pointing that out. Anyway, I am happy as long as 6D single shot, center point AF consistency is better than 7D. The latter drove me crazy with its inconsistent single shot AF performance.


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## verysimplejason (Dec 4, 2012)

Woody said:


> verysimplejason said:
> 
> 
> > I think it's the same as Roger Cicala's comment later in the thread.
> ...



me too! as much as I love my 500D, switching to a 6D is sweet. I just need to brace myself till next year. I don't want to be an early adopter. ;D I need to convince myself that I need to wait a little bit more just like what I did with my 500D. I'm really tempted so much already. I've got to focus on my new lighting equipment instead...


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## hemidesign (Dec 4, 2012)

verysimplejason said:


> Woody said:
> 
> 
> > x-vision said:
> ...



I was right... I did so many test from both cameras, 6D is a phenomenal camera.. 
Another thing, the ISO from 6D in 6400, looks like the 5Dmk2 in 1600... YES.. my numbers were right! 
I'll post some photos later for comparison...


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## wickidwombat (Dec 5, 2012)

outer points anyone? vs the 5Dmk2 outer points


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## Area256 (Dec 5, 2012)

Keep in mind that the 5D2 center point will only be cross type with f/2.8 and faster lenses, otherwise it's just a horizontal line sensor. With the 6D you get cross type at f/5.6 and faster, and improved accuracy at f/2.8 on the vertical line sensor. That to me will be the biggest difference between the 5D2 and the 6D, since I have a lot of f/4 glass, and I'd like to have a cross type point for those lenses. 

Also I think the f/5.6 type AF points tend to be faster than f/2.8 points for getting the focus into the right general area, so even if you had an f/2.8 lens on the 5D2 and only hit vertical contrast it would in theory be slower than the 6D will be - which can use the f/5.6 to get focus into the right zone, and use the f/2.8 to fine tune. 

Also into the realm of speculation looking at the AF diagrams on the Canon website, the AF points on the 5D2 don't seem to extend out from the focus squares as much as the ones on the 6D. Although I could just be reading things into the diagram...


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## MichaelTheMaven (Dec 5, 2012)

I now own all three cameras, the 5DIII, 5Dii, and 6D. 

The 6D's optical focusing system is significantly better than the 5Dii's, but it the 5DIII is ridiculously good. Even the outer points did very, very well in my first tests. Will try to do some low light testing on the 6D tomorrow. 

5DIII > 6D > 5Dii

Let me know if you guys have anything specific you want me to test out!

MM


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## brianleighty (Dec 5, 2012)

x-vision said:


> hemidesign said:
> 
> 
> > My final words are.. the center point from the Canon 6D might be better for accuracy from any Canon camera ever build.. believe me, this thing is very powerful..
> ...


Some others have already commented but I thought I'd also point out that Roger wasn't really testing for AF accuracy on it's own, this article is related to all the previous ones where he's comparing contrast live view focusing vs phase detection AF. Even the lowest level 6D shot is still obviously very much in focus. It just isn't "perfect". So the real answer is without further testing this test doesn't prove anything other than the 5D mark III and 1DX do better with newer lenses than the 6D which isn't that huge a deal. What needs to be tested is how the camera handles in low light and low contrast situations. I look forward to hearing more about this.


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## Chosenbydestiny (Dec 5, 2012)

Anything is better than 5D mark I and II outer points.... seriously. If the 6D can focus outer points accurately in decent lighting for portraits (like wide open portraits 2.8 and faster) then I'd be more than happy to pick one up as well.


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## M.ST (Dec 5, 2012)

Re to: In terms of AF accuracy, the 6D is closer to the 5DII than the 1DX/5DIII.

I am not impressed from the 6D AF-system and can confirm the test. 

It´s only a little bit better then the 5D Mark II AF-system.


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## verysimplejason (Dec 5, 2012)

M.ST said:


> Re to: In terms of AF accuracy, the 6D is closer to the 5DII than the 1DX/5DIII.
> 
> I am not impressed from the 6D AF-system and can confirm the test.
> 
> It´s only a little bit better then the 5D Mark II AF-system.



There's always a 5D Mark III or 1DX for you. 5D3 is getting cheaper now. I guess Canon can't please everybody. For me, 6D AF is enough as I'm not into sports or anything fast. The overall better center point is more than enough for my needs. All I'm after is IQ which if we rely on some feedback, is already better than 5D3. (I want to prove it myself though.) You can also wait for 7D2 with its better AF. If you're still not satisfied, then I suggest you look into other systems such as Nikon or Sony If you're invested in lenses, I think you'll lose something if you go from one system to another but that's the harsh reality. But don't worry, I know Canon lenses holds their value well. As photographers, let's not limit ourselves with the tools you use. Let creativity be the only thing that limits us but again, that can also be learned as long as you're willing to work.


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## Chuck Alaimo (Dec 5, 2012)

MichaelTheMaven said:


> I now own all three cameras, the 5DIII, 5Dii, and 6D.
> 
> The 6D's optical focusing system is significantly better than the 5Dii's, but it the 5DIII is ridiculously good. Even the outer points did very, very well in my first tests. Will try to do some low light testing on the 6D tomorrow.
> 
> ...



Hey michael, watched you video on the wifi app. I like it, and yeah, that would be a game changer for many things (On that front, I tinker about for fun with night time long exposures, does the app work with bulb mode?)


On a working level though, I shoot weddings and portraits and am seriously considering this as a secondary body (I'd probably use it for mostly wide angle work, using either my 16-35 or 24-70 on it, and leave the long end to the mk3). My worries about IQ seem to be satisfied, but the AF system Still waiting to hear more, some kind of word on how the outer points work in lower light. My potential secondary bodies were - 5d2, 1dmk4, 5d3, or 6d. The high ISO capabilities of the 6d (at least what i have seen and read so far) takes the 5d2 off the list. 1d4, great camera, but i don't really need the fps (it is a nice idea, but if i drop 3k+ my money is probably better spent on a second mk3. So that leaves mk3 and 6d. So, anything you or anyone else might be able to say on the AF system would rock, as it's really the only factor I see at this point that may stop me from snagging one.


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## skitron (Dec 5, 2012)

M.ST said:


> Re to: In terms of AF accuracy, the 6D is closer to the 5DII than the 1DX/5DIII.
> 
> I am not impressed from the 6D AF-system and can confirm the test.
> 
> It´s only a little bit better then the 5D Mark II AF-system.



Personally, I found the 5D2 center point AF _accurate_ enough for my needs. The issues with it were (1) it wasn't very fast and (2) it didn't work so well in low light.

My understanding is the 6D center point fixes these two issues.

Still nothing to get very excited about, but it would at least make it _adequate_ for my purposes.

And if this is not the case, I guarantee mine will get boxed right back up and shipped back where it came from when it shows up Friday.


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## MichaelTheMaven (Dec 5, 2012)

@ Chuck- I am doing some low light focusing testing today and will verify what you are asking. My gut impression is that the 6D seems to be better geared between the higher ISOs (which are also a little "soft") and low light focusing, which as you know will be fantastic for shooting receptions and low light events. Ill post the info as soon as my tests are done, should be later today or tomorrow.

If anyone else wants any comparisons done let me know, I have a 5Dii, 5Diii, & Nikon D600. 

M


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## Marsu42 (Dec 5, 2012)

MichaelTheMaven said:


> My gut impression is that the 6D seems to be better geared between the higher ISOs (which are also a little "soft")



I guess we'll have good af reviews shortly from the usual suspects (dpreview announced a 6d-d600 shootout). 

But one thing missed in the "pro" reviews until now is that the higher iso capability of the 6d may be partly due to in-camera chroma nr even in the raw files, resulting in the softer images. The samples I saw are not conclusive, but if you happen to shoot any fine patterns it would be interesting what you think about it.


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## PhotoCat (Dec 5, 2012)

MichaelTheMaven said:


> @ Chuck- I am doing some low light focusing testing today and will verify what you are asking. My gut impression is that the 6D seems to be better geared between the higher ISOs (which are also a little "soft") and low light focusing, which as you know will be fantastic for shooting receptions and low light events. Ill post the info as soon as my tests are done, should be later today or tomorrow.
> 
> If anyone else wants any comparisons done let me know, I have a 5Dii, 5Diii, & Nikon D600.
> 
> M



Hi Michael, thanks for the effort!

It would be interesting to compare AI-Servo accuracy with the centre AF point between all 3 cameras.

Also repeating the AI-Servo test with the top-most AF point in portrait orientation would be very interesting.

I guess the test condition would be similar to shooting a wedding processional in a church  

Thanks!


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## Chuck Alaimo (Dec 6, 2012)

MichaelTheMaven said:


> @ Chuck- I am doing some low light focusing testing today and will verify what you are asking. My gut impression is that the 6D seems to be better geared between the higher ISOs (which are also a little "soft") and low light focusing, which as you know will be fantastic for shooting receptions and low light events. Ill post the info as soon as my tests are done, should be later today or tomorrow.
> 
> If anyone else wants any comparisons done let me know, I have a 5Dii, 5Diii, & Nikon D600.
> 
> M



TY!


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## skitron (Dec 6, 2012)

My 6D shows tomorrow and I'll do some testing and post. One thing I will test for that I haven't seen elsewhere is the "in focus range size". 

Here's what I mean... When testing my 50D and 5D2 I found an interesting phenomenon when trying to dial in the AFMA for an autofocus confirm chip on my manual focus Rokinon aka Samyang 35mm (nice lens BTW). It mattered whether I was focusing from infinity to closer in, or from close in to further out when shooting a test target at a fixed distance. 

My first thought was "well, we just discovered the 'cheap' part of this lens" and the first thought was there is play in the internal workings of the lens. But upon digging in a bit more, I discovered this phenomenon was very pronounced on the 50D and much less so on the 5D2.

So then I start thinking it has something to do with the body rather than the lens. So I test the 100L and get essentially the same results manually focusing it while using AF confirm. The conclusion being it is in fact an issue with the bodies and not the lenses.

While using manual focus plus AF confirm with either lens, I was able to determine the 50D had a fairly significant range of focus in which it would confirm with a beep and a red indicator. Meaning if I slowly focused from infinity 'inward', it would confirm (after best effort AFMA adjustment) while about 4 'AFMA clicks' back focused. And if I slowly focused from min to 'outward' it would confirm about 3 'AFMA clicks' front focused. And this was true with either the Rokinon or the 100L on the 50D.

So same test on the 5D2 and the "range of in focus" was probably 1/4 that of the 50D (a good thing). Which explained alot of unpleasant things I experienced shooting the 50D at very shallow DOF (hit, miss, hit, miss)...

So anyway, I'll do the same test on 6D and post results.


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## dlleno (Dec 6, 2012)

interesting observation *skitron * . whether its related or not, Roger over at lensrentals has done extensive testing on the AF accuracy ,and measures this via standard deviation of AF accuracy. His work showed that that *auto * focus of the 5d2 and 50d to be in the same ballpark. this makes me wonder of the AF "confirmation" behavior is different..

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2012/08/01/autofocus-reality-part-3b-canon-cameras

phase detection AF accuracy of the 6D was measured as being similar to the 5D2

http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2012/11/30/autofocus-reality-revisited-how-does-the-Canon-eos-6d-measure-up

just FYI this is just interesting stuff


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## skitron (Dec 6, 2012)

dlleno said:


> interesting observation *skitron * . whether its related or not, Roger over at lensrentals has done extensive testing on the AF accuracy ,and measures this via standard deviation of AF accuracy. His work showed that that *auto * focus of the 5d2 and 50d to be in the same ballpark. this makes me wonder of the AF "confirmation" behavior is different..
> 
> http://www.imaging-resource.com/news/2012/08/01/autofocus-reality-part-3b-canon-cameras
> 
> ...



I saw Roger's stuff. The one thing I don't know about his test is whether he was always focusing "a single direction" or "both directions". 

I was pretty surprised by the 50D performance since it had a band equvalent to about 7 AFMA clicks that it would confirm in. You could literally see it go OOF in the view finder (f1.4 so very shallow DOF) while very slowly turning the manual focus and it just kept on confirming, LOL. Who knows, maybe a bad body? I'll definitely check the 6D tomorrow for it, I doubt it will be like that, but it will be checked non the less.


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