# Can my Canon 5D Mark II remotely operate the flashes speedlite 430EXII and 580EX



## gandhi (Dec 30, 2011)

Can my Canon 5D Mark II remotely operate the flashes speedlite 430EXII and 580EXII?.Usually I use the 580 on my camera and use it as master and fire the other two 430 EX. however I am wondering if I can fire all the three remotely.
I am trying to find it in the manual and online, no luck as of now, any one can throw more light on this?


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## dr croubie (Dec 30, 2011)

In short, no.
Only the 580, ST-E2, 7D, 60D, 600D can do that. I never realised it until I tried using it, but the signal to send to slave-flashes is actually a flash itself. So the 5D-line probably never will, because it doesn't have a built-in flash.

So you're stuck using the 580 on-camera, unless you get an ST-E2 or 3rd-party trigger-system...


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## gandhi (Dec 30, 2011)

Thanks , thats good info.


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## briansquibb (Dec 30, 2011)

dr croubie said:


> In short, no.
> Only the 580, ST-E2, 7D, 60D, 600D can do that. I never realised it until I tried using it, but the signal to send to slave-flashes is actually a flash itself. So the 5D-line probably never will, because it doesn't have a built-in flash.
> 
> So you're stuck using the 580 on-camera, unless you get an ST-E2 or 3rd-party trigger-system...



+1 need the 3rd party trigger, ST-E2, 550EX, 580EX (mk 1 or 2), MR-14EX, MT24-EX or 3rd party master Speedlite


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## wickidwombat (Dec 31, 2011)

i use this
http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/YONGNUO-ST-E2-Speedlite-Transmitter-430EX-580EX-II-/290621161309?pt=Camera_Flash_Accessories&hash=item43aa5eff5d

good value for money, takes AA batteries, I use 1.5V energiser lithium batteries in it and it can rotate to aim at the flashes the genuine one cant


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## Gothmoth (Dec 31, 2011)

if you do a lot of "off camera flash" then do yourself a favor and buy a good trigger from the start.

the phottix odin ttl trigger is great. 
sold a lot of them and have yet to see a 430 EX or 580 EX customer who is unhappy with it.

TTL will not work 100% with all third party flashes but it´s great with canon flashes.


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## handsomerob (Dec 31, 2011)

Gothmoth said:


> if you do a lot of "off camera flash" then do yourself a favor and buy a good trigger from the start.
> 
> the phottix odin ttl trigger is great.
> sold a lot of them and have yet to see a 430 EX or 580 EX customer who is unhappy with it.
> ...



+1

Phottix and PocketWizard offer great products.


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## Viggo (Dec 31, 2011)

+1 for Odin -1 for PW's :

The Odin's never-fail stabillity makes it all the more fun! No misfire still, (after about 2000 shots) and the raaange, oh my the range!


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## briansquibb (Dec 31, 2011)

Viggo said:


> +1 for Odin -1 for PW's :
> 
> The Odin's never-fail stabillity makes it all the more fun! No misfire still, (after about 2000 shots) and the raaange, oh my the range!



+1 for PW - did a 4 speedlight test today - at about 20m. Did 10 without a miss


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## Viggo (Dec 31, 2011)

briansquibb said:


> Viggo said:
> 
> 
> > +1 for Odin -1 for PW's :
> ...



20 meters and 10 pictures? Well.....

Odin is at 200m and does ALL shots without a hitch. My problems with the PW's were extreme if the flashes were to close or to far apart and if the camera was to close or too far away...


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## briansquibb (Dec 31, 2011)

Viggo said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > Viggo said:
> ...



I was only testing the number of speedlights and hiding them - and they were close together. I dont take flash from greater distance than that so there was no point in testing it ...

.... I think we have all got the message that you had problems with the Pocket Wizzards however there are thousands that haven't.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Dec 31, 2011)

briansquibb said:


> .... I think we have all got the message that you had problems with the Pocket Wizzards however there are thousands that haven't.



The forums do seem to have a abnormally number of frustated users of their newest version, and, of course a advertised range of over 400 ft that turned out to be 12 feet does not inspire confidence. Of course, you can put a conductive bag over the flash and increase both the range and the flash temperture, risking heat damage. They will sell you a hard conductive box which works better, but why pay extra for the priviledge of getting acceptable performance, and to reduce the heat dissapation of your flash, which can already be a problem. 

For those that get a 400 ft range with a PW and a canon 580 EX II on their camera (without modifying their flash), I'd say they are one in thousands.


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## briansquibb (Jan 1, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > .... I think we have all got the message that you had problems with the Pocket Wizzards however there are thousands that haven't.
> ...



I hear what you say - but 12ft?? I am getting a reliable 60ft and I just haven't tried further.

With a lot of noise from various 'failures' of products when one digs further the failures happen at the extremes - why would someone take a remote flash at 400ft? Quite frankly I reckon 60ft is a fair distance - that is taking birds with a 1d4 and a 400mm.

I am using a MiniTT1 and 4TT5's to control 4x580EX remotes and a 580EXII on the hotshoe. I have not had a failure since I bought them at the beginning of the summer - and I use them a lot. It mystifies me why the failures are happening.

Mind you I have the same problem understanding the issue of the 5DII AF - especially low light performance - where DxO report the 5DII low light performance as the best.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 1, 2012)

Brian, FWIW, Rob Galbraith reports the range for 580s with the European/UK version of the PWs is double that of the US/Canada version (different frequencies).


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## briansquibb (Jan 1, 2012)

neuroanatomist said:


> Brian, FWIW, Rob Galbraith reports the range for 580s with the European/UK version of the PWs is double that of the US/Canada version (different frequencies).



+1 Many thanks - explains why I dont hit problems then ;D ;D ;D

Should I have an issue with only 170ft (very unlikely) then I will put the 430EXII at the 850ft extremity. Perhaps I should get a 550EX just incase I need to go to 950ft ;D

However these numbers are _*NOTHING*_ like the 12ft quoted earlier in the thread!


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## TonyY (Jan 1, 2012)

Pixel King wireless TTL trigger is your answer. It support wireless ETTL, HSS and you can adjust power via camera menu...


http://www.pixelhk.com/Proshow.aspx?id=101


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## Viggo (Jan 1, 2012)

From Pocket Wizard's FAQ:

"Why won't my units trigger when I have them right next to each other?

A PocketWizard radio slave is designed to operate at long range. Units may not trigger normally at an extremely short range of a few inches or less. Antennas that are touching each other are definitely not recommended. Move the units several inches to a few feet apart and try again."

Then why did they introduce the Speed Cycle feature?? Then the flashes MUST be right next to each other!

And the 12ft you refer to is what Pocket Wizard themselves wrote on their page, and then blamed Canon and the 580 flash.


And I use them in Norway, so I should have the better range.


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## Viggo (Jan 1, 2012)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > .... I think we have all got the message that you had problems with the Pocket Wizzards however there are thousands that haven't.
> ...



Thank you !


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## 7enderbender (Jan 1, 2012)

Another cheap option is to just use a long ETTL cable on the master unit. Not as elegant but reliable and cost effective if the main objective is to get the master off camera. No alternative for a fully featured ETTL wireless system, but until I'm ready to spend several hundred dollars on something like the Odin or PW it's a great option.

http://ocfgear.com/

I have the 33'/10m version for $65 and it does what it's supposed to do for a fraction of what I'd need otherwise. Note that this of course still relies on the Canon remote flash triggering and may be unreliable in direct sunlight.


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## briansquibb (Jan 1, 2012)

I am going on a shoot tomorrow - I will test at less than 12ft (although I know they work as I have had 2 slaves on a flash bracket at a wedding)- and also at more than 12ft.


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## briansquibb (Jan 1, 2012)

Here is a video with the mini and the speedlight within 30cm of each other

http://www.pocketwizard.com/inspirations/tutorials/control_tl_introduction_mini_tt/


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## Viggo (Jan 1, 2012)

Here's proof otherwise:

http://photobyviggo.com/random/pw2.jpg

http://photobyviggo.com/random/PW1.jpg

These two (and the 40 other shots) are at the same manual power setting. The only difference is speed. I had the curtain showing from 1/3200s through 1/6000s, then at 1/8000s the suddenly worked. And from 1/1000s and up to 1/3200s I had no power. This was completely consistent for this day, yet , other days showed other symptoms.

After the guys over at PW customer support saw these (and my other examples and mails) they said "So sorry we can't fix this for you, please return your radio's for a full refund"

Another time I had ONE setting with the AC3 giving me consistent no power, and they said "wow, that's a strange one, never seen that". Which is the problem, the errors are never the same so it's extremely hard to figure out, other than replacing radio's and flashes.. oh yeah, I did that, nothing helped....

Here's an example of that error, and this kept showing with 100% of the shots that day.

http://photobyviggo.com/random/pocketwizard.jpg


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## briansquibb (Jan 1, 2012)

So you are shooting in manual not eTTL then?


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## briansquibb (Jan 1, 2012)

What are your high speed settings then?

I rarely go over 1/1000 and then probably not over 1/1500

Sun is forecast for tomorrow so I will try some high speed shots - they will be eTTL though and not using a AC3 either.

I will be on 2 flash off the camera, with a mini on camera

All my PW is at v6.00 firmware with factory defaults set


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## Viggo (Jan 1, 2012)

briansquibb said:


> So you are shooting in manual not eTTL then?



Oh I have tried both ettl and manual mode, same story. These examples were in M mode to illustrate how the power output changes at random , even though I don't change it. 

I've tried with and without the AC3 , and also used a TT5 as a transmitter to another TT5. Same story, with loads of random errors.

I often need fast speeds for portraits so I need them to work at all speeds-


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## briansquibb (Jan 1, 2012)

Viggo said:


> briansquibb said:
> 
> 
> > So you are shooting in manual not eTTL then?
> ...



Your experience is bad - I cant remember a failure or mis fire. Will be more interesting tomorrow as I will be watching it


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## Viggo (Jan 1, 2012)

0


briansquibb said:


> Viggo said:
> 
> 
> > Your experience is bad - I cant remember a failure or mis fire. Will be more interesting tomorrow as I will be watching it
> ...


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## Canon-F1 (Jan 2, 2012)

in short.. sold my PW flex system -> too many problems.
if you want to know more have a look at their support forum!

bought phottix odin -> perfect.

had a look at the "pixel king" but to be honest for 150 euro less these triggers offer much less then the phottix odin. 
the display alone on the phottix is worth 100 euros for me. 
much quicker to see the settings of your groups etc. ... odin is a much better trigger.


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## te4o (Jan 2, 2012)

What are the chances that the upcoming 5D and the 1Dx can trigger our speedlites remotely?


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## Viggo (Jan 2, 2012)

None, at least for the X , as we know all the specs already.... but the interesting question for me is why? Why are we still stuck with the unless IT system from the last ice age....


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