# POLL: Do you use mf or af override (ftm) and why?



## Marsu42 (Aug 22, 2014)

My original decision for Canon back then was because they had these fantastic silent usm lenses that allow you to mf at all times even when the lens is set to af. However, nowadays I find myself using af most of the time except for macro (Magic Lantern focus peaking...) and some in between landscape shots. When in doubt I rather take some safety shots in case the camera's af screws up. 

_I am wondering_: *Do I have to learn to mf because I'm missing out and would get better results?*. One opportunity would be horse shots, I often struggle to get the eyes in focus as they are rather tricky to af when the horse is looking directly towards the camera. Another opportunity would be people portraits and mf'ing the eyes with thin dof.

The reasons for me using af (except for macro) are:

The vf on my crop 60d is too tiny to see anything and the 6d is still a lot smaller than my old analog film eos cameras. This makes it very difficult for me to see where the focus is, esp. outdoors.
I don't have much experience setting the correct mf override, so af focus & recompose is quicker.

I'd like to ask for your experiences and input on this: _(When) do you use mf or af override?_ Thanks!

Edit: Clarified poll options, I hope if squares with the intent of the people who already voted. Usually you perform a pre-test when doing polls :-o


----------



## mdmphoto (Aug 22, 2014)

At times, me and af don't necessarily agree on what should be in focus, or even, albeit rarely, what focus should look like!


----------



## Omni Images (Aug 22, 2014)

I shoot mostly landscape and then nature, birds, with the odd sport thrown in.
Different settings/usage for each.
For landscape, I usually AI single to a point then turn off and shoot single and multi shots for panos.
Birds, nature, usually AI servo, with the back button set to lock to say focus eyes then hold button to hold focus then move composure. Mostly just AI servo, especially for BIF shots, or just AI single for tree shots.
Sports .. depends, skate, usually wide angle pre focus, AF off ... surfing from the shore AI servo, surfing housing, AI servo and then sometimes pre focus, depends on the break I'm at short hollow waves with super wide pre focus, bigger/longer breaks maybe use a 35mm with AI servo on


----------



## Arthur_Nunes (Aug 22, 2014)

Marsu42,

the big advantage of mf in landscape is to achieve maximum depth of field using hyperfocal distance.

sometimes focusing in the point of interest isnt the better choice if the subject is beyond a certain distance and you will lose DoF.


check out dofmaster.com if there's any doubt


----------



## Marsu42 (Aug 22, 2014)

Arthur_Nunes said:


> the big advantage of mf in landscape is to achieve maximum depth of field using hyperfocal distance. sometimes focusing in the point of interest isnt the better choice if the subject is beyond a certain distance and you will lose DoF



Indeed, and in these cases I use Liveview, Magic Lantern and focus peaking (and their hf calculator). The occasions when I struggle between af and mf are live scenes with people or animals, it's either af with focus & recompose or mf (override) attempts.

Btw: I split the poll options above between mf/back button af and mf/ftm, maybe we'll get some more people to vote and then a precise result might be interesting.


----------



## mackguyver (Aug 22, 2014)

Marsu, I can't really answer your poll unless there was a response that says "It depends". In detail it would be:

Manual Focus 100%:
1. Landscape 
2. Macro
3. Architecture
4. Studio - Still life, products, art reproduction
5. With T/S lenses (not that you have a choice)

AF initially, FTM refinement:
1. Close-up portraits where I can see (i.e. with 85mm+ lenses)
2. Wildlife shots where the subject is in thick brush or trees, and lately when there are spiderwebs.

I have customized my 1D X to have AI Servo set for the AF (back button) and One Shot for the AE Lock button so I have that set up full time now, and quickly switch between the two. On the 5DIII, obviously it's still a manual thing.

AF One shot:
1. Still or nearly still wildlife
2. Walkaround shots
3. Most portraits

AF AI Servo:
1. Wildlife
2. Sports
3. Action shots of any other kind

AF AI Servo, then One Shot for better accuracy, especially in low light:
1. Wildlife that is moving then stops
2. Sports


----------



## Marsu42 (Aug 22, 2014)

mackguyver said:


> Marsu, I can't really answer your poll unless there was a response that says "It depends".



In this case I suggest voting af with ftm as this might be the most unusual setting. We all use one-shot/servo/mf sometimes, but this is about either af override with ftm or selecting af/mf via backbutton af. I'll try to clarify the poll above.


----------



## Sporgon (Aug 22, 2014)

I use BBF so never have to switch lens to MF. Even for hyper focus I aim at an appropriate target and use BBF, so this includes landscape. I use the 's' screen and have played about with using manual focus against AF in critical conditions, and more often than not the AF gets it better than I can, but that's probably just me. Also if you're going to try to manual focus as an improvement in accuracy you're going to have to use L lenses in order to have the appropriate control over the focus ring.


----------



## privatebydesign (Aug 22, 2014)

I am mostly one shot AF, but when I use Servo I have "Back Button OFF" for AF not back button ON, I find I get better results and my thumb doesn't work a fraction as hard.


----------



## TexPhoto (Aug 22, 2014)

I always shoot in Servo because I shoot sports, and kids. Yes i will shoot the ocasional landscape, but servo works fine for this most of the time.


----------



## mackguyver (Aug 22, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> mackguyver said:
> 
> 
> > Marsu, I can't really answer your poll unless there was a response that says "It depends".
> ...


Thanks and I just added my vote. It looks like it's pretty even at the moment between several of the choices. I guess my comment about it depending is that I'll frequently shoot 100% manual or 100% one shot or 100% AI servo depending on what I'm shooting...


----------



## Hannes (Aug 22, 2014)

I use FTM sometimes when the focus goes funny due to distractions, especially when there's a fence for example. Back buttons are set up for AF stop


----------



## Mt Spokane Photography (Aug 22, 2014)

I use MF override for product photography while tethered to my PC with a large screen. First I use AF, then tweak with manual override. I have a dedicated head bolted firmly to my light table and focus on the feature most important, I also set the depth of field to what looks best to me. Usually I want the whole product in focus, so its f/8 to f/16. I'm pretty close to my products, so depth of field is a issue. I can do focus stacking, my software will adjust the focus in as many increments as I want, but the photos are web photos and spending that much time is not worth it.

With the newer cameras that have a bit faster live AF, I can put the square focus point where I want it and save some time, but I still end up tweaking it with the manual override.

My eyesight is not sharp enough to use Manual AF using the viewfinder, acuity of eyesight varies greatly from person to person, so some can do it.


----------



## mackguyver (Aug 22, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> My eyesight is not sharp enough to use Manual AF using the viewfinder, acuity of eyesight varies greatly from person to person, so some can do it.


Part of that is the crappy AF focus screens in most cameras these days that make f/8 look as bright as f/1.2. That's nice, but even with my better than 20/20 vision, I can't focus worth a damn using them. Pop in a super precision matte screen and it makes MF a joy once again even at f/2. Of course, that's not easily done with the newer cameras.


----------



## Marsu42 (Aug 22, 2014)

privatebydesign said:


> I am mostly one shot AF, but when I use Servo I have "Back Button OFF" for AF not back button ON, I find I get better results and my thumb doesn't work a fraction as hard.



That's interesting and worth starting this thread alone, I'll try that - I've always been wondering what this "af stop" setting was really about :-o



mackguyver said:


> Part of that is the crappy AF focus screens in most cameras these days that make f/8 look as bright as f/1.2. That's nice, but even with my better than 20/20 vision, I can't focus worth a damn using them.



Good to hear I'm not alone with this problem :-\ ... the vf of my old eos film camera is magnitudes better than my 6d for mf. I also cannot exchange the focus screen as my f4+ lenses would be too dark, and I need the grid screen to get the camera lined up ("horizontally challenged").


----------



## mackguyver (Aug 22, 2014)

Marsu42 said:


> Good to hear I'm not alone with this problem :-\ ... the vf of my old eos film camera is magnitudes better than my 6d for mf. I also cannot exchange the focus screen as my f4+ lenses would be too dark, and I need the grid screen to get the camera lined up ("horizontally challenged").


I found the "dark viewfinder" to less of an issue than it sounds like. The only issue I ever had with my 5DII & 60D with the super precision matte was when I was at f/11 with my 400 f/5.6 + 2x extender. That was pretty dark and hard to focus. I'm very fortunate in regards to horizons (most of the time), but your affliction is a very common one


----------



## Actionpix (Aug 22, 2014)

katzeyeoptics.com has good focus screens. They work like it was before AF with a split prism. But how good is your eyeball? Some people believe they can do better than their camera. I doubt that. When I use MF I do it in live view. In live view I can zoom in. For example when I make landscape with a tilted lens. Or when I realy want the best focus possible on a part of an image. I use AF in live view than. Normal AF checks distance and sends a focus signal to the lens. The result is not evaluated though. You are not sure the result of this is a sharp image on the sensor. Also there is no garanty a sharp image in the viewfinder results in a sharp image on the sensor. In live view it is. But mostly I just let the camera and lens do the job. I have my camera settings tweaked for that. Most problems with focus are just wrong setting for the kind of images you shoot.


----------



## Marsu42 (Aug 22, 2014)

Actionpix said:


> But how good is your eyeball? Some people believe they can do better than their camera. I doubt that.



I know I can mf better than my camera's for handheld macro, i.e. when the camera and/or the object are not steady. Not because my eyesight is better than the latest japanese tech, but because the lag between mf+press shutter button is shorter than af lock + picture taken. If I try to one-short af in these cases, the focus has changed already.

For other occasions esp. f2.8- at closer distances, I would speculate that I'm at least as good as my camera simply the 6d's af is so bad with fast lenses.


----------



## jdramirez (Aug 23, 2014)

If my target its stationary, I have no issues busting out the manual focus... but it is when I don't know what to expect... then I'll heavily rely on af. 

I really like shooting in manual, I feel a connection to the cameras and photographers in the past...


----------

