# Here is everything that you need to know about tomorrow’s big day from Canon



## Canon Rumors Guy (Sep 13, 2021)

> Tomorrow is the day that we finally get the official announcements for all of Canon’s latest goodies, It has been a long time coming and I think the community is more than ready.
> The Canon EOS R3
> The Canon EOS R3 for the most part has completely leaked. There could be a few surprise features, which would be quite welcomed.
> Pricing for the Canon EOS R3 will be $5999USD / €6099, I haven’t confirmed pricing in other countries, but I think everyone knows what to expect in those markets. The Canon EOS R3 will begin shipping in November of this year.
> ...



Continue reading...


----------



## Chaitanya (Sep 13, 2021)

Is the ST-E10 replacement for E3?


----------



## DBounce (Sep 13, 2021)

What exactly is the AD-E1 smartphone adapter?


----------



## Tidy Media (Sep 13, 2021)

I'm super keen for this new camera strap hey


----------



## john1970 (Sep 13, 2021)

For me there are still a lot I do not know about the R3, which I really hope the following info is released in the formal announcement or covered by reviewers of the camera:

1) What is the buffer depth and clearing rate?
2) Can the electronic shutter be used at speeds slower than 30 fps?
3) What is the flash sync speed with electronic shutter?
4) How good is the high ISO noise?
5) Are there cross-type AF sensors (I doubt it, but would be a nice surprise)?
6) Does the eye AF work well with normal eye glasses?

Hopefully, there are still some surprises!!


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Sep 13, 2021)

Well if it's everything we need to know, tomorrow's announcement can be skipped... 
Pretty thorough coverage actually, thank you.


----------



## unfocused (Sep 13, 2021)

A little disappointed by the November ship date. Too late for most fall sports.


----------



## Iain L (Sep 13, 2021)

I really can’t help feeling they have something up their sleeve, here. 

Why else would the two lenses you choose to unveil in the same press conference as your new £6000 professional camera body be the full-frame equivalents of your best-selling budget EF-S telephoto and pancake models?


----------



## JustUs7 (Sep 13, 2021)

Preface this by saying that I read and post here because I find the material interesting and it’s nice to know early what’s coming so one can plan accordingly. Like now I have a decision to make between the 600 and the 100-400. Better to know that before I spend money on the 600, because I won’t get away with both. 

That said, anyone ever feel like, “Okay, I just went through your parents closet, and here’s what you’re getting for Christmas!” Takes a bit away from Christmas morning, no?


----------



## Czardoom (Sep 13, 2021)

Iain L said:


> I really can’t help feeling they have something up their sleeve, here.
> 
> Why else would the two lenses you choose to unveil in the same press conference as your new £6000 professional camera body be the full-frame equivalents of your best-selling budget EF-S telephoto and pancake models?


Maybe two consumer lenses are being unveiled at the same time because the vast majority of Canon buyers are not buying a Pro level, $6000 camera.


----------



## JustUs7 (Sep 13, 2021)

Iain L said:


> I really can’t help feeling they have something up their sleeve, here.
> 
> Why else would the two lenses you choose to unveil in the same press conference as your new £6000 professional camera body be the full-frame equivalents of your best-selling budget EF-S telephoto and pancake models?


Perhaps the RF 400 and RF 600 big whites will finally be available when the R3 is released? Can’t imagine they kept a 500 or 200-600 completely under wraps for this announcement.


----------



## diegopisante (Sep 13, 2021)

I'm really expecting a 14mm 2.8, 2.0, or 1.4, or even a 12mm.


----------



## JustUs7 (Sep 13, 2021)

diegopisante said:


> I'm really expecting a 14mm 2.8, 2.0, or 1.4, or even a 12mm.


With this announcement? Just because? Expecting or wishing for?


----------



## john1970 (Sep 13, 2021)

JustUs7 said:


> Perhaps the RF 400 and RF 600 big whites will finally be available when the R3 is released? Can’t imagine they kept a 500 or 200-600 completely under wraps for this announcement.


If they did manage to keep a RF 500 mm f4 under wraps that would be very impressive. I don't remember a lot of rumors about the 2018 EF 400 mm and 600 mm updates prior to their formal announcement, but I might be mistaken.


----------



## Cyborx (Sep 13, 2021)

Whatever… 

It will be 24mpix and 6000 euro’s. Some new features but nothing spectacular. Eye AF is not what most of us need. So basically the R3 is an R6 with an inbuilt battery grip. If you are willing to pay twice the price for that, be my guest!


----------



## Andy Westwood (Sep 13, 2021)

UK time for the Canon online launch is 11am I’m looking forward to seeing the new products, R3 included but particularly the compact RF 16mm lens.

I suspect YouTube will have multiple hands-on unboxings and first tests by the usual characters to keep us occupied long after the launch.

Then at 6pm UK time the iPhone 13 and other new Apple products are revealed.

This time next week I’ll be at the Photography Show in Birmingham so I might even get my hands on some of this new kit.

Tomorrow is a good day for tech lovers but maybe not for our bank balances


----------



## Deleted member 381342 (Sep 13, 2021)

Cyborx said:


> Whatever…
> 
> It will be 24mpix and 6000 euro’s. Some new features but nothing spectacular. Eye AF is not what most of us need. So basically the R3 is an R6 with an inbuilt battery grip. If you are willing to pay twice the price for that, be my guest!



That is a incredibly misinformed post. If you only need a R6 that is great, but everything we know about the R3 so far puts it ahead of every full frame mirrorless until the Nikon Z9 comes out. And it may even best the Z9 in some areas.


----------



## Skyscraperfan (Sep 13, 2021)

I do not care so much about the announcement, which probably will not give us a lot of news, but much more about all the reviews that are already completed , but can't be published before the announcement. They will likely go online within less than one hour after the announcement. We will proboably see reviews by Jared, Kai, Gordon, the Northrups, Peter, DPReview and others all tomorrow. They could publish the reviews today, but then they would have to pay a lot of money to Canon.


----------



## Act444 (Sep 13, 2021)

Unless there’s been some type of major breakthrough in high ISO performance (or one is imminent or likely within the next couple of generations) I’m honestly meh towards this sudden influx of ultra-slow zoom lenses that the MILC era seems to have enabled. F5.6 is already stretching it thin as it is…JMO. Perhaps there is something else on the horizon that will help all this make more sense…there has to be.

Curious about that 16mm though…


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 13, 2021)

Cyborx said:


> Whatever…
> 
> It will be 24mpix and 6000 euro’s. Some new features but nothing spectacular. Eye AF is not what most of us need. So basically the R3 is an R6 with an inbuilt battery grip. If you are willing to pay twice the price for that, be my guest!


Welcome back! Has your shoulder recovered from patting yourself on the back over your 'spot on' prediction of the 6000€ price? Hopefully by now you've cleaned the egg off your face from your guesses that ranged from 3999€ to 6000€. I think 'most of us' want you to crawl back into your troll cave and stay there. By 'most of us' I mean me, since unlike you I don't claim to know what most people want or need.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 13, 2021)

unfocused said:


> A little disappointed by the November ship date. Too late for most fall sports.


I was thinking it could be worse...


----------



## John Wilde (Sep 13, 2021)

DBounce said:


> What exactly is the AD-E1 smartphone adapter?


It's the hot shoe adaptor that you use with a smartphone. 

I don't know the point, but I have seen smartphones attached to the top of cameras as an external monitor. Perhaps an app will allow it to do more.


----------



## Erksn (Sep 13, 2021)

The new RF 100-400 is just what I need, a light lens for hiking. It was so close that I ordered Tamron's 100-400. I really hope the sharpness is good though. 

One negative part as I see it, it does not seem to have a tripod mount, but perhaps the lens is so light that it’s not needed.


----------



## djack41 (Sep 13, 2021)

john1970 said:


> If they did manage to keep a RF 500 mm f4 under wraps that would be very impressive. I don't remember a lot of rumors about the 2018 EF 400 mm and 600 mm updates prior to their formal announcement, but I might be mistaken.


Hmmm. The RF600 is the same as the EF600 with a permanent adapter. Under-whelming.


----------



## JustUs7 (Sep 13, 2021)

djack41 said:


> Hmmm. The RF600 is the same as the EF600 with a permanent adapter. Under-whelming.


I think the person you’re responding too is referring to 2018 when the original EF v2 versions were released and the lack of rumors about it at that time. I assume the announcement just came from Canon with little build up?


----------



## dboris (Sep 13, 2021)

It's funny to read complains about how bad it is 24H before reveal. Some comparing it to R6? Lol.

I'm sure there will be tons on hype with the eye af, 6K raw, low rolling shutter, and so on.


----------



## unfocused (Sep 13, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> I do not care so much about the announcement, which probably will not give us a lot of news, but much more about all the reviews that are already completed , but can't be published before the announcement. They will likely go online within less than one hour after the announcement. We will proboably see reviews by Jared, Kai, Gordon, the Northrups, Peter, DPReview and others all tomorrow. They could publish the reviews today, but then they would have to pay a lot of money to Canon.


If it is like past announcements, the first reviews probably won't tell us much -- just run through the features and a few first impressions. It will be a couple weeks, I think, before we get any in-depth reviews.


----------



## entoman (Sep 13, 2021)

I wonder how many affluent dreamers will buy the R3 in the mistaken belief that it will magically transform them into better photographers...


----------



## motofotog (Sep 13, 2021)

Any information on the number of aperture blades on RF 16mm 2.8?


----------



## Quarkcharmed (Sep 13, 2021)

motofotog said:


> Any information on the number of aperture blades on RF 16mm 2.8?


f/2.8 is related to aperture and means 2.8 blades. Perhaps three blades with a bit of overlap. Well, that's my best guess, don't throw tomatoes at me.


----------



## Lee Jay (Sep 13, 2021)

Literally not a single interesting item in the entire Canon lineup anymore. Sad.

Unsubscribed from the newsletter.


----------



## Stuart (Sep 13, 2021)

Act444 said:


> Unless there’s been some type of major breakthrough in high ISO performance (or one is imminent or likely within the next couple of generations) I’m honestly meh towards this sudden influx of ultra-slow zoom lenses that the MILC era seems to have enabled. F5.6 is already stretching it thin as it is…JMO. Perhaps there is something else on the horizon that will help all this make more sense…there has to be.
> 
> Curious about that 16mm though…


"The _EOS_ R3 is is The first _EOS_ to feature an entirely new stacked _BSI_ CMOS sensor" So likely its performance is different - better We all hope.


----------



## InchMetric (Sep 13, 2021)

djack41 said:


> Hmmm. The RF600 is the same as the EF600 with a permanent adapter. Under-whelming.


The newest, most advanced, best supertelephoto lens ever just isn’t new enough? Can you share what improvements you would suggest?


----------



## mpmark (Sep 13, 2021)

john1970 said:


> For me there are still a lot I do not know about the R3, which I really hope the following info is released in the formal announcement or covered by reviewers of the camera:
> 
> 1) What is the buffer depth and clearing rate?
> 2) Can the electronic shutter be used at speeds slower than 30 fps?
> ...


I have read somewhere that the buffer is infinite and reliant only on the capacity of the card.


----------



## FrenchFry (Sep 13, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...


It looks like there is some conflicting information from different sources:
According to Nokishita, the microphone is coming out in March 2022 (vs. November). I wonder which is correct?

Also, interestingly the Amazon leak had a ship date of October 14th for the 16mm lens, but Nokishita is saying "late October".

And, it's interesting to see that two of the "ER" accessories are eye cups rather than straps. Three new camera straps was too good to be true!


----------



## FrenchFry (Sep 13, 2021)

motofotog said:


> Any information on the number of aperture blades on RF 16mm 2.8?


Nothing yet from Nokishita, but hopefully soon:


----------



## Roy Hunte (Sep 13, 2021)

Very interesting.


----------



## mpmark (Sep 13, 2021)

InchMetric said:


> The newest, most advanced, best supertelephoto lens ever just isn’t new enough? Can you share what improvements you would suggest?


If you actually new anything about lens design telephoto lenses have little to no effect of barrel distance of rear element. The design of the 600III is already redesigned to have most of the internal elements shifted rearward to lighten the lens dramatically (less elements).
Modifying the rear lens element to sit closer does nothing for super telephotos like it does for medium and short focal lenthgs when it comes to benefits.

if you’re mearly upset that they permanently attached the adapter and you refuse to spend the money cause they “cheaped out” you should actually try and understand why they did that.


----------



## slimenta (Sep 13, 2021)

I am new to this discussion and currently shoot with 1DX IIIs with the latest versions of 400 and 600 lenses. What is the expectation of compatibility through an adapter for these lenses.


----------



## FrenchFry (Sep 13, 2021)

InchMetric said:


> The newest, most advanced, best supertelephoto lens ever just isn’t new enough? Can you share what improvements you would suggest?


A supertelephoto designed from the ground-up for RF could have numerous improvements, such as being designed to take advantage of the 11 RF mount pins, which can transmit additional information to the body and potentially improve focus speed/accuracy. 

The rumors for the RF supertelephotos are very exciting, including:
- A very small/lightweight 500mm F4
- A 300mm F2.8 that might have zoom capabilities
- A 200-400 or 200-500mm that might have a built-in TC

All of the EF equivalents for these lenses are older and due for a refresh. Even if the refresh advantages are not dependent on RF design (for instance, it might have been possible to make the lenses lighter in an EF mount, but Canon didn't yet), it will still be exciting to see these advantages materialize for the RF mount, which they have not so far. 

Additionally, it is possible (not guaranteed) that these lenses will be less expensive than the 400mm F2.8 ($12000) and 600mm F4 ($13000).

There are lots of reasons to be excited about new RF telephotos. Yes, the 400mm F2.8 and 600mm F4 are now available in RF mount, and that is great news! But it's also nice to see what options will be made available in the future, for the people who don't necessarily want to buy those exact lenses. 

The 500mm F4 II (Release in 2011, $9000), 300mm F2.8 II (Release in 2011, $6100), and 200-400mm F4 (Release in 2013, $11000) have not been refreshed in a very long time, so it is exciting to see what can be done for these lenses with 10 years of additional technological advancements. 

Having more choices to choose from is great for consumers, as we each have different needs.


----------



## FrenchFry (Sep 13, 2021)

Stuart said:


> "The _EOS_ R3 is is The first _EOS_ to feature an entirely new stacked _BSI_ CMOS sensor" So likely its performance is different - better We all hope.


I'm hoping the BSI helps let in more light and result in better low light performance. Even if minimal, I'll take it!


----------



## SteveC (Sep 13, 2021)

entoman said:


> I wonder how many affluent dreamers will buy the R3 in the mistaken belief that it will magically transform them into better photographers...


 Naah, I already figured out the R5 didn't make me a better photographer, so why would this camera?


----------



## FrenchFry (Sep 13, 2021)

SteveC said:


> Naah, I already figured out the R5 didn't make me a better photographer, so why would this camera?


You can't know for sure unless you buy it.


----------



## aceflibble (Sep 13, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> They could publish the reviews today, but then they would have to pay a lot of money to Canon.


That's not how the industry works. That's not how any industry works.
If you've signed an actual NDA, which is a legally binding contract stating you will not talk about [subject] until a ccertain point (or simply ever), then yes, breaking that contract may mean you are subject to a lawsuit, whether you broke the terms of the NDA or not is very quick and simple to prove, and you'll be paying a huge fine and/or getting some time behind bars, depending on the exact nature of the subject at hand.
... But that requires the manufacturer to spend a lot of time and money drawing up legally sound contracts, getting copies posted off and signed, everyone filing everything correctly, and nobody can be bothered. It also opens up the possibility of leaks as if you send someone a contract saying "you will not talk about the R3 until 11am on the 14th", and then that person simply does not agree to sign that contract... well, you've just told them the R3 is coming and what kind of time frame it should be arriving. You've leaked yourself.

What actually happens, in this and every other industry you can name, is manufacturers strike non-binding embargos with outlets and influencers. An embargo doesn't require anything to be signed like an NDA does. If someone breaks the embargo you can't level any kind of charges against them, but outlets _won't_ break the embargo because they know if they do you'll never cooperate with them again. The threat of financial penalty is not there; nobody would have to pay Canon a single penny if they set an R3 or 100-400 hands-on video live a half day early, for example. But Canon would never send that channel a review unit ever again. They'd never invite them to press events again. They'd never give them any support reviewing any further products. If you break an embargo, that's it, you're blacklisted by that company. Other companies will also notice that you broke embargo and they will stop working with you, too. And if a channel, site or magazine can't get review units sent to them, they are pretty much out of business; very few people can afford to buy every product they want or need to review, and even when they can afford it, the nature of coverage now is so focused on being the first to publish that waiting for a retail unit to be delivered often means your review will not get enough traffic to make any money.

This is also why those outlets and channels which always have a ''review'' ready to go within minutes of announcement must always be taken with the largest barrel of salt you can fathom. They're never under _contract_ to suck up to the manufacturer—nobody is ever "paid off", and as a side note, accusing someone of being paid off or secretly under contract is in fact illegal, yes, even 'just' in a youtube comment, so nobody should ever do that—but they are under _pressure_ to not rock the boat much. Manufacturers will blacklist you for breaking embargo, for giving one product a negative review, or simply because you told a bad joke in the bar after a press event one time, so every outlet and channel _does_ have incentive to play nice and go easy on everything. It's just not a direct financial penalty incentive. That's why you so rarely hear anyone say any part of a new product is actually "bad", just "average" at worst. It's the old 7-10 scale: nothing is allowed to be given less than a 7/10 or you'll never get work again.


So, no, nobody would have to _pay_ any money to Canon. But if they break the embargo with a company of that size they'll struggle to produce work again, and cease _earning_ money.

(I've signed more NDAs in my lifetime than I care to remember and I've also been blacklisted by a fair few companies, so believe me when I say the pressure manufacturers put on outlets is very, very real.)


----------



## FrenchFry (Sep 13, 2021)

slimenta said:


> I am new to this discussion and currently shoot with 1DX IIIs with the latest versions of 400 and 600 lenses. What is the expectation of compatibility through an adapter for these lenses.


The latest version of the lenses (released this year) already have an RF mount. If you are referring to the 2018 versions, the general consensus seems to be that the lenses work very well on the R5, but autofocus may not be as fast as on a body with integrated grip, which has a larger battery. The hope is that the R3 will address this, but we don't know yet.


----------



## Krispy (Sep 13, 2021)

What time is the announcement supposed to take place?


----------



## Finn (Sep 13, 2021)

I'm just glad to see Canon finally offering a Canon BSI sensor. Could make mkII's of the R5 and R6 worthy upgrades or trade ups. I'm amazed at how well canon's FSI 45MP sensor in the R5 does, especially when paired with Canon's DPP software. Pretty impressive for how many and how small the photodiodes have to be for 45MP.

I'm more interested in how the R3 video performs. We pretty much now its going to be a faster, higher MP, slightly smaller 1DXM3 and will perform very well in the sports arena.


----------



## chasingrealness (Sep 13, 2021)

Does this mean the R5 will finally be [reliably] in stock? Or better yet…discounted for Black Friday???


----------



## FrenchFry (Sep 13, 2021)

mpmark said:


> If you actually new anything about lens design telephoto lenses have little to no effect of barrel distance of rear element. The design of the 600III is already redesigned to have most of the internal elements shifted rearward to lighten the lens dramatically (less elements).
> Modifying the rear lens element to sit closer does nothing for super telephotos like it does for medium and short focal lenthgs when it comes to benefits.
> 
> if you’re mearly upset that they permanently attached the adapter and you refuse to spend the money cause they “cheaped out” you should actually try and understand why they did that.


I think a lot of people are excited to see a refresh to the 500mm F4, 300mm F2.8, and 200-400mm F4, which were released in 2011, 2011, and 2013, respectively. 
8-10 years is a really, really long time in the tech world to not see advancements or improvements in a new model. One can reasonably assume (and the rumors support) that the new versions of these lenses will see some pretty dramatic upgrades given the length of time elapsed between the old and new models. 
These improvements may have little or even nothing to do with the new RF mount. For example, the EF 600mm F4 that came out in 1999 was about 11.8 lbs, the EF 600mm F4 II that came out in 2011 was about 8.7lbs, and the EF 600mm F4 III that came out in 2018 was about 6.7lbs. These dramatic weight reductions are much appreciated improvements for anyone who has spent time carrying these lenses. These improvements are not related to any new mounts, but they are a huge deal for the end user. 

As a result, a refresh to the 500mm F4, 300mm F2.8, and 200-400mm F4 could bring great improvements to the size and weight of these lenses, even if those improvements are not a direct consequence of the new RF mount. I would also think it would be possible to improve the focusing speed of these lenses with the latest nano USM technology, as well as make improvements to micro-contrast and colors with the newest lens coatings. Who knows, maybe the new lenses would even be sharper. Again, not because of the new RF mount, but because of the release occurring 10+ years after the previous model.


----------



## Skyscraperfan (Sep 13, 2021)

I always thought that 4K with low noise at night is a good addition to a camera, but then I see videos like this that remind me that you can buy things like a DJI Pocket 2 for 400 Euros or so and the quality is amazing. Of course you can't mount your lenses on it, but for people like me who see video just as a bonus. something like those cheap walkaround video camera take away the need to buy a large camera that can do video: 




Of course the noise in the sky and on the street could be lower and the sound needs improvement, but I wonder how much better an R3 would look. And can you handhold it that easy while walking?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 13, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Here is everything that you need to know about tomorrow’s big day from Canon​


But it's not everything I need to know. What I really need to know is what time pre-orders will go live at Adorama/B&H...


----------



## SUNDOG04 (Sep 13, 2021)

People will be disappointed initially, as always. In time, it will be proven to be pretty darn good, as always.


----------



## fox40phil (Sep 13, 2021)

InchMetric said:


> The newest, most advanced, best supertelephoto lens ever just isn’t new enough? Can you share what improvements you would suggest?


how about shorter minimum focus distance?! …


----------



## RayValdez360 (Sep 13, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> I was thinking it could be worse...


it will be because of limited stock if enough people actually want to pay for this camera. I just know i gotta be up early in the morning to preorder.


----------



## RayValdez360 (Sep 13, 2021)

unfocused said:


> If it is like past announcements, the first reviews probably won't tell us much -- just run through the features and a few first impressions. It will be a couple weeks, I think, before we get any in-depth reviews.


Some people had it a few weeks or months. This is like the slowest roll out ever. I just hope they dont sugar coat anything. If it isn't worth it tell us. ASAP


----------



## koenkooi (Sep 13, 2021)

fox40phil said:


> how about shorter minimum focus distance?! …


Honest question: with or without massive focus breathing? I really like the 1.2m MFD on the 100-500, but at MFD on the long end it's more like a 290mm, AlanF measured it a while back.


----------



## Dragon (Sep 13, 2021)

Quarkcharmed said:


> f/2.8 is related to aperture and means 2.8 blades. Perhaps three blades with a bit of overlap. Well, that's my best guess, don't throw tomatoes at me.


Six pointed stars would be maxi cool .


----------



## reef58 (Sep 13, 2021)

aceflibble said:


> That's not how the industry works. That's not how any industry works.
> If you've signed an actual NDA, which is a legally binding contract stating you will not talk about [subject] until a ccertain point (or simply ever), then yes, breaking that contract may mean you are subject to a lawsuit, whether you broke the terms of the NDA or not is very quick and simple to prove, and you'll be paying a huge fine and/or getting some time behind bars, depending on the exact nature of the subject at hand.
> ... But that requires the manufacturer to spend a lot of time and money drawing up legally sound contracts, getting copies posted off and signed, everyone filing everything correctly, and nobody can be bothered. It also opens up the possibility of leaks as if you send someone a contract saying "you will not talk about the R3 until 11am on the 14th", and then that person simply does not agree to sign that contract... well, you've just told them the R3 is coming and what kind of time frame it should be arriving. You've leaked yourself.
> 
> ...


Time behind bars for a breach of contract. That is pretty rough. I guess it may depend on the jurisdiction of governing law, but I don't expect any country under which these NDA's were contracted would give jail time, but who knows?


----------



## FrenchFry (Sep 13, 2021)

fox40phil said:


> how about shorter minimum focus distance?! …


Yes! With corresponding higher max reproduction ratio!!!!

RF 100-500 has a minimum focus distance of 90cm and max magnification of 0.33x, compared to 370cm and 0.15x on the EF 500mm F4.
EF 100-400 II has a minimum focus distance of 98cm and max magnification of 0.31x, compared to 250cm and 0.17x on the EF 400mm F2.8 III. 

It would be so nice to be able to use the new big whites for photos of large insects (and similarly-sized items like flowers) like we can use the excellent 100-4/500 zooms for these subjects for ideal subject isolation.


----------



## FrenchFry (Sep 13, 2021)

koenkooi said:


> Honest question: with or without massive focus breathing? I really like the 1.2m MFD on the 100-500, but at MFD on the long end it's more like a 290mm, AlanF measured it a while back.


Obviously without focus breathing is preferred, but as long as the max reproduction ratio increases, getting the close focus capabilities improved on big whites would great.


----------



## HenryL (Sep 13, 2021)

reef58 said:


> Time behind bars for a breach of contract. That is pretty rough. I guess it may depend on the jurisdiction of governing law, but I don't expect any country under which these NDA's were contracted would give jail time, but who knows?


You would be correct about jail time. NDA is a civil contract, you’d not get jail time.


----------



## perplex1 (Sep 13, 2021)

just put in a preorder with one of my smaller business sites. B&H and Adorama NEVER have product for pre-orders. They reserve for a select few immediately, and pre-orders get queued for months.


----------



## Franklyok (Sep 13, 2021)

AD-E1 ? Is this something like HDMI-to-USB output, so the phone could be used as monitor? Or is it USB-to-USB connection? DJI pocket 2 has the cable connectivitiy to phone, I hope 6K camera is not behind from 400 € camera. Or am I misssing something?


----------



## SteveC (Sep 13, 2021)

HenryL said:


> You would be correct about jail time. NDA is a civil contract, you’d not get jail time.


Part of getting a security clearance is signing an NDA that expressly states there are criminal penalties.

And OBTW "spies" don't do well in prison.


----------



## melgross (Sep 13, 2021)

Sorry, but I still think that $6,000 is too high for this. $5,500 would be more in line. Pro or not, camera sales are still going down. This might just encourage more buyers to get the R5 instead. And where does this leave the yet to be announced (or finished) R1 Canon has pretty much said is coming? $7,500, $8,000, $8,500?

that’s already in larger format territory. Is this a hint as to that from Canon? The speculation over that just won’t die. I can’t see a FF camera hiking that high these days. What super features could it have that would justify that kind of pricing? That is, realistically?


----------



## JustUs7 (Sep 13, 2021)

SteveC said:


> Part of getting a security clearance is signing an NDA that expressly states there are criminal penalties.
> 
> And OBTW "spies" don't do well in prison.


Is that because, “Snitches get stitches.”? I’ve never been to prison, but I’d be surprised if they were referring to camera gear.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 13, 2021)

perplex1 said:


> B&H and Adorama NEVER have product for pre-orders. They reserve for a select few immediately, and pre-orders get queued for months.


Is that new? I pre-ordered my 1D X about an hour after it went live, and from what I can tell I got mine in the first batch.


----------



## Rocksthaman (Sep 13, 2021)

Anyone else wonder why Canon would unveil the R3 on iPhone 13 day. Seems like another marketing fail (8k/overheating in r5) 
if you ask me.

Depending on what Apple releases the R3 could be just a blip on the radar.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 13, 2021)

Rocksthaman said:


> Anyone else wonder why Canon would unveil the R3 on iPhone 13 day. Seems like another marketing fail (8k/overheating in r5)
> if you ask me.
> 
> Depending on what Apple releases the R3 could be just a blip on the radar.


I guess they just didn’t coordinate before hand. Lol.

The markets are different. Is TVS launching a new scooter tomorrow also a marketing fail?


----------



## SteveC (Sep 13, 2021)

JustUs7 said:


> Is that because, “Snitches get stitches.”? I’ve never been to prison, but I’d be surprised if they were referring to camera gear.


You're right, this has nothing to do with camera gear, but someone upstream mentioned that you can go to prison for violating an NDA and someone else questioned that. In some special cases, you CAN go to prison. Fortunately this isn't one of them.

As for spies...remember this would be for dropping classified info, that makes you a "traitor" and oddly enough prison inmates tend to have a strong patriotic impulse.


----------



## entoman (Sep 13, 2021)

melgross said:


> Sorry, but I still think that $6,000 is too high for this. $5,500 would be more in line. Pro or not, camera sales are still going down. This might just encourage more buyers to get the R5 instead. And where does this leave the yet to be announced (or finished) R1 Canon has pretty much said is coming? $7,500, $8,000, $8,500?
> 
> that’s already in larger format territory. Is this a hint as to that from Canon? The speculation over that just won’t die. I can’t see a FF camera hiking that high these days. What super features could it have that would justify that kind of pricing? That is, realistically?


Perhaps the higher price is to make the R3 a more direct competitor to their own 1Dxiii. There was huge demand for the latter, but Canon obviously wants as many people as possible to switch to RF mount so they can sell more lenses. All this stuff from Canon about the R3 *not* being their flagship camera is pure baloney, it's just a message that something even better (the R1) is in the pipeline. So despite their proclamations, the R3 most definitely *is* their flagship camera, and will remain so for about another 18 months. Then the R1 will be launched - and yes, IMO it will cost $8K+.

As for "What super features could it have that would justify that kind of pricing", realistically I think we can expect:

global shutter (zero rolling shutter artefacts, flash sync at all speeds)
45MP+
8K with no overheating or time limit
new class of high performance battery
faster and more advanced data transmission
twin CF Express slots
higher magnification EVF with faster refresh rates
more powerful twin processors

... and possibly an entirely different body design (as per recent patents)

The price will put the R1 beyond the reach of almost all amateurs, but in all seriousness $8K isn't a huge amount of money for a *business* buyer - just look at the cost of big whites...


----------



## koenkooi (Sep 13, 2021)

FrenchFry said:


> [..]RF 100-500 has a minimum focus distance of 90cm and max magnification of 0.33x,[..]


The 0.33x is at the 500mm end, which means you have a 1.2m MFD. The 90cm MFD at 100mm won't give you 0.33x.


----------



## AlanF (Sep 13, 2021)

koenkooi said:


> Honest question: with or without massive focus breathing? I really like the 1.2m MFD on the 100-500, but at MFD on the long end it's more like a 290mm, AlanF measured it a while back.


I can't find all my results. But, I have one set of calculations that has the 100-400mm II dropping to 178mm at mfd and the 100-500mm to 224mm fully extended.


----------



## Rocksthaman (Sep 13, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> I guess they just didn’t coordinate before hand. Lol.
> 
> The markets are different. Is TVS launching a new scooter tomorrow also a marketing fail?


Considering the tech outlets are a primary source of marketing and the iPhone is the most used camera in the world yes.

Think of every tech site what the story would be if they released today or last week vs tomorrow. There is a premium to be above the fold on a website. Engadget, YouTube, Google(news), will be dominated by iPhone news.

The only good thing that could come out of it is supply is short and there will be more than enough interest to fill the capacity to fill orders.


----------



## AlanF (Sep 13, 2021)

koenkooi said:


> The 0.33x is at the 500mm end, which means you have a 1.2m MFD. The 90cm MFD at 100mm won't give you 0.33x.


That 90cm mfd is for a mid range value. Its measured mfd at 100mm is 970mm.


----------



## unfocused (Sep 13, 2021)

entoman said:


> The price will put the R1 beyond the reach of almost all amateurs, but in all seriousness $8K isn't a huge amount of money for a *business* buyer - just look at the cost of big whites...



Where do people get these ideas? As someone recently pointed out, the average professional photographer earns about $41,000 annually. The top 1% are earning around $70,000.

And, seriously, do you really think more "big whites" are bought by professionals than enthusiasts? 

Enthusiasts are only constrained by their disposable income. Professionals have to earn a return on their purchases.


----------



## unfocused (Sep 13, 2021)

Rocksthaman said:


> Considering the tech outlets are a primary source of marketing and the iPhone is the most used camera in the world yes.
> 
> Think of every tech site what the story would be if they released today or last week vs tomorrow. There is a premium to be above the fold on a website. Engadget, YouTube, Google(news), will be dominated by iPhone news.
> 
> The only good thing that could come out of it is supply is short and there will be more than enough interest to fill the capacity to fill orders.


LOL. How many R3 buyers are turning to Google(news) to get information on the release? If the R3 market is checking anywhere it's going to be photography-focused sites like DPReview, where the 40th iteration of nearly identical iPhones is going to be no more than a blip.


----------



## DBounce (Sep 13, 2021)

Looks like canonwatch got the full scoop:

24MP, $5999, 6K, BLACKOUT-FREE EVF

6K 60p RAW and 4K 120p 10-bit uncropped video with Canon Log 3 support, in addition to the possibility for oversampled 4K and RAW movie internal recording.


----------



## lexptr (Sep 13, 2021)

> ... will begin shipping in November of this year ...





> ... will be available in late November of this year ...


Oh sure... Probably for the first N pre-orders. I still have a trauma after almost six months of waiting for R5 to appear in stock!


----------



## unfocused (Sep 13, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> Is that new? I pre-ordered my 1D X about an hour after it went live, and from what I can tell I got mine in the first batch.


I'm pretty sure you know he's full of it. 

Logic suggests that Canon sets a deadline for the initial batch of orders -- telling retailers they need to get their orders in by Sept. X for the first shipment. Since Canon discounts the price based on volume, I imagine the large stores like B&H, Adorama and Amazon have a good idea already what their initial sales will be. They probably track them initially to see if actual orders are meeting or exceeding expectations and then submit their orders once they are comfortable that they can order enough to get the largest available discount, ordering a certain number or percentage of units above their pre-orders.

Unfortunately, with all the supply chain issues currently, Canon may not be able to fulfill the full order with the first shipment and probably sends out partial orders as they become available.


----------



## Hector1970 (Sep 13, 2021)

unfocused said:


> Where do people get these ideas? As someone recently pointed out, the average professional photographer earns about $41,000 annually. The top 1% are earning around $70,000.
> 
> And, seriously, do you really think more "big whites" are bought by professionals than enthusiasts?
> 
> Enthusiasts are only constrained by their disposable income. Professionals have to earn a return on their purchases.


I agree. Yes high end professionals and agencies buy them but I think well healed enthusiasts make up a large chunk for the market.
The R1 for sure will be expensive. There will be plenty of buyers for it though.


----------



## H. Jones (Sep 13, 2021)

At this point, even though $6,000 was a bit more than I was hoping for, I've kind of just accepted my fate as to having to pre-order one of these immediately tomorrow morning.

I've gone back and forth on this about a dozen times, and part of me wants to wait for the R1 as 8000 isn't an insane difference to $6000, but in all reality the R3 is going to be a huge upgrade for my 1DX Mark II, since it will move me to an all-RF mount system.

I think the features 'm most excited about are the features we don't even know about yet. Every time Canon releases a camera they throw in some new updates to the menus. A great example of this is the fact that the R3 has the option to turn on a simulated noise when shooting with the electronic shutter, or on the R5 when they added the ability to change AF modes by lens control ring, which wasn't an option on the EOS R but is one of my most-used controls on my R5.

There's just a lot that I'm totally sure I'm going to love about this camera. I did really strongly consider a second R5, but I really don't want to be limited by the R5's buffer on both of my cameras. The other reality is that, as much as I love the 45 megapixels of the R5 for cropping, the majority of my work just doesn't need two 45 megapixel cameras. 

Most important to me, above all else, is having a camera that is always on top of things and ready to take an image, no matter if I just shot a 500-frame burst a second ago or not. Add in the fact that it's RF mount, has a flip-out screen, and has servo autofocus in live view(unlike my 1DX Mark II), and this is really going to be an exciting camera to me.


----------



## unfocused (Sep 13, 2021)

DBounce said:


> Looks like canonwatch got the full scoop:
> 
> 24MP, $5999, 6K, BLACKOUT-FREE EVF
> 
> 6K 60p RAW and 4K 120p 10-bit uncropped video with Canon Log 3 support, in addition to the possibility for oversampled 4K and RAW movie internal recording.


Thanks! Looks like @Canon Rumors Guy was spot on. 12fps and different card slots seem to be the major differences from the 1Dx III.

EDIT: A little concerned that the release makes no mention of the buffer. I would be very distressed if Canon cheaped out on the buffer.


----------



## H. Jones (Sep 13, 2021)

unfocused said:


> I'm pretty sure you know he's full of it.
> 
> Logic suggests that Canon sets a deadline for the initial batch of orders -- telling retailers they need to get their orders in by Sept. X for the first shipment. Since Canon discounts the price based on volume, I imagine the large stores like B&H, Adorama and Amazon have a good idea already what their initial sales will be. They probably track them initially to see if actual orders are meeting or exceeding expectations and then submit their orders once they are comfortable that they can order enough to get the largest available discount, ordering a certain number or percentage of units above their pre-orders.
> 
> Unfortunately, with all the supply chain issues currently, Canon may not be able to fulfill the full order with the first shipment and probably sends out partial orders as they become available.



I pre-ordered the R5 the moment it went live on B&H and got it on release day. I know I was way ahead of a lot of people, but I trust B&H after that experience to pre-order the R3 from them.


----------



## JMV Portraits (Sep 13, 2021)

john1970 said:


> For me there are still a lot I do not know about the R3, which I really hope the following info is released in the formal announcement or covered by reviewers of the camera:
> 
> 1) What is the buffer depth and clearing rate?
> 2) Can the electronic shutter be used at speeds slower than 30 fps?
> ...


 
1. Your best source for this in a meaningful way is likely to be reviews. Initial impressions will likely be posted by people with test units immediately after the event. If it's mentioned in the promotions materials at the event, it will likely only be in subjective terms unless they're doing something very unusual with the system.

2. You also best looking at initial reviews for this. The kind of announcements we're seeing tomorrow tend to focus on the maximum, not all of the individual settings. The best you'd get would be *maybe* a breakdown of the drive modes, which might hint at an answer.

3. Expect something on the order of 1/200. Flash sync speeds with an electronic shutter are often limited by sensor readout speed. Sony has gotten flash sync to work with an electronic shutter at 1/200 on the a1. A lower resolution would give this body an advantage in this regard, but Canon tends to have a slower readout than contemporary Sony sensors. I can't see them even bothering if it's much slower, but it would imply some major things about sensor readout if it's much faster.

4. Expect subjective claims at the announcement. Early reviews will mention it, and mostly assess it as either "the best ever" or " a total embarrassment". A mix of the two extremes is a lot more likely than any sort of balanced assessment being common. Really though, we know what to expect. The differences between noise from one camera to the next, of the same format and technology, are minima. Most of the advantages touted in marketing materials come from improved noise reduction in in-camera jpegs, but even that's getting pretty small from generation to generation. BSI sensors tend to have a small, but noticeable, advantage in this regard, and this will be Canon's first ILC with a BSI sensor, so that's a bit of a question mark, but it's most likely a very small improvement over the 1DXIII, R5, and R6, most noticeable at very high ISOs.

5. Cross-type vs non-cross-type is only relevent to phase-detect AF systems. Being a mirrorless camera, calling the R3's AF points "cross-type" or "non-cross-type" is meaningless, unless Canon introduces something new, not directly related to PDAF cross-type sensors, but names it "cross-type". The closest corrolary in mirrorless systems to cross-type AF systems is probably larger AF points.

6. This will pop up in early reviews, but is unlikely to be directly mention at the event. You'll most likely have to specifically seek out reviewers who wear glasses. One note on a specific source- while Jared Polin wears glasses and has been very vocal about the eye control AF, he has some eye-twitch issues that made the previous generation (like on the EOS 3) not work for him. Even he's saying he might not be a good source for that, but he's been having somebody else on his team test that out.


----------



## bergstrom (Sep 13, 2021)

melgross said:


> Sorry, but I still think that $6,000 is too high for this. $5,500 would be more in line. Pro or not, camera sales are still going down. This might just encourage more buyers to get the R5 instead. And where does this leave the yet to be announced (or finished) R1 Canon has pretty much said is coming? $7,500, $8,000, $8,500?
> 
> that’s already in larger format territory. Is this a hint as to that from Canon? The speculation over that just won’t die. I can’t see a FF camera hiking that high these days. What super features could it have that would justify that kind of pricing? That is, realistically?



I want a camera that can deliver on world peace. That's worth $8000. I'd buy it.


----------



## maulanawale (Sep 13, 2021)

entoman said:


> I wonder how many affluent dreamers will buy the R3 in the mistaken belief that it will magically transform them into better photographers...


So true. But hopefully loads, then the R1 is here and BOOM! Near mint R3’s there for the taking on the second hand market. I’ve scored absolute bargains over the years (last one an A7RIV for 2000£ with 500 shots on the shutter) thanks to those more impulsive and way wealthier than me.


----------



## H. Jones (Sep 13, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> DBounce said:
> Looks like canonwatch got the full scoop:
> 
> 24MP, $5999, 6K, BLACKOUT-FREE EVF
> ...



Nothing wrong with the R5's viewfinder---I love it--but isn't it a little surprising this release also sounds like it has the same viewfinder as the R5? 5.76 million dots at 120 fps is the spec of the R5. Weird. I know it specifically says a "new" viewfinder, but a little bit surprised that at the price that the camera didn't get a 240 fps mode. Granted, this could also be a battery life thing, since I know using the 120 FPS on the R5 definitely drains the battery faster, and 240 would probably push that even more on a camera that many will be concerned about battery life on.


----------



## Emyr Evans (Sep 13, 2021)

"Featuring a new 5.76-million-dot and 120fps blackout-free1 Electronic Viewfinder"

Same EVF as the R5; was hoping for a bump in resolution, maybe to the same as the A1. Maybe they've kept that for the R1.


----------



## JMV Portraits (Sep 13, 2021)

maulanawale said:


> So true. But hopefully loads, then the R1 is here and BOOM! Near mint R3’s there for the taking on the second hand market. I’ve scored absolute bargains over the years (last one an A7RIV for 2000£ with 500 shots on the shutter) thanks to those more impulsive and way wealthier than me.


Yep, it happens with every new camera.

Not everybody who does that is blaming their gear, some just want to have "the best", "the shiniest toy", whatever, but the number who upgrade believing it will solve skill, technique, and creative shortcomings isn't zero. 

Thinking a fancier camera will always result in better pictures a major factor in entry-level equipment losing so much value second-hand, I'd say much more so than anything in this market segment. A lot of people have no problem spending 500-1000USD to get "better pictures" of the kids or on vacation, only to find that it doesn't really work like that and if they're not in it to learn, and so it sits in the closet until it hits ebay, along with thousands of others.


----------



## bbasiaga (Sep 13, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> Nothing wrong with the R5's viewfinder---I love it--but isn't it a little surprising this release also sounds like it has the same viewfinder as the R5? 5.76 million dots at 120 fps is the spec of the R5. Weird. I know it specifically says a "new" viewfinder, but a little bit surprised that at the price that the camera didn't get a 240 fps mode. Granted, this could also be a battery life thing, since I know using the 120 FPS on the R5 definitely drains the battery faster, and 240 would probably push that even more on a camera that many will be concerned about battery life on.


Remember, with a stacked sensor, 'blackout' goes to almost zero, so the refresh rate matters in a different way. Even with the same spec, it could peform much better. 

Brian


----------



## H. Jones (Sep 13, 2021)

bbasiaga said:


> Remember, with a stacked sensor, 'blackout' goes to almost zero, so the refresh rate matters in a different way. Even with the same spec, it could peform much better.
> 
> Brian



Great point, I do expect it will feel significantly improved over the R5, which was already a great experience.

I also hope that they have increased the size of it, since the eyepiece looks massive. Granted, that could be space taken up for the eye-AF, but I do hope they've given it a larger magnification.


----------



## JDavis (Sep 13, 2021)

I still can't believe that Canon is announcing anything the same day Apple announces their new iPhone. How stupid are Canon? Even camera websites and blogs will be covering the new photo and video features of the new iPhone. Canon's event will get ZERO attention. Oblivious.


----------



## HenryL (Sep 13, 2021)

SteveC said:


> Part of getting a security clearance is signing an NDA that expressly states there are criminal penalties.
> 
> And OBTW "spies" don't do well in prison


I’ve had clearances, and those forms aren’t NDA’s. Revealing classified information is a crime, whether that acknowledgement is signed or not.

EDIT- I read your following response after I posted this and it’s clear we agree. The crime is “dropping classified information” and not violating an NDA
EDIT #2 - I should be more clear - those aren't NDA's in the vein of commercial product development that are part of this discussion. SteveC is correct though.


----------



## AlanF (Sep 13, 2021)

unfocused said:


> Where do people get these ideas? As someone recently pointed out, the average professional photographer earns about $41,000 annually. The top 1% are earning around $70,000.
> 
> And, seriously, do you really think more "big whites" are bought by professionals than enthusiasts?
> 
> Enthusiasts are only constrained by their disposable income. Professionals have to earn a return on their purchases.


And by their physical strength, unfortunately.


----------



## HenryL (Sep 13, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> I pre-ordered the R5 the moment it went live on B&H and got it on release day. I know I was way ahead of a lot of people, but I trust B&H after that experience to pre-order the R3 from them.


My experience with the R5 from B&H was the same. Even if I have to wait a bit it’s no biggie, but the only thing I’ve preordered from them that did not arrive on release day was the RF 100, and that was only about a week delay.


----------



## john1970 (Sep 13, 2021)

I just saw the leaked press announcement on canonwatch. Thanks for the tip.


----------



## Viggo (Sep 13, 2021)

Emyr Evans said:


> "Featuring a new 5.76-million-dot and 120fps blackout-free1 Electronic Viewfinder"
> 
> Same EVF as the R5; was hoping for a bump in resolution, maybe to the same as the A1. Maybe they've kept that for the R1.


The press release literally says “new EVF”.


----------



## Czardoom (Sep 13, 2021)

JDavis said:


> I still can't believe that Canon is announcing anything the same day Apple announces their new iPhone. How stupid are Canon? Even camera websites and blogs will be covering the new photo and video features of the new iPhone. Canon's event will get ZERO attention. Oblivious.


I have to laugh when I see such absolutely ridiculous comments like this one. Do really think photographers are just going to browse around aimlessly looking for websites and blogs that announce camera news? No, I think they will know exactly where to look for news about the R3. You see, there are these things called search engines. And many photographers might - just might - have bookmarked websites such as this one, or others, that will provide them with the news they want. I doubt very much, there is a single person who is in the market for the R3 that will suddenly change their mind and decide to buy an iPhone instead because they will be "dominating the tech news."


----------



## entoman (Sep 13, 2021)

unfocused said:


> Where do people get these ideas? As someone recently pointed out, the average professional photographer earns about $41,000 annually. The top 1% are earning around $70,000.
> 
> And, seriously, do you really think more "big whites" are bought by professionals than enthusiasts?
> 
> Enthusiasts are only constrained by their disposable income. Professionals have to earn a return on their purchases.


Why did you not read my post correctly?

I never mentioned professional photographers, who you apparently believe are all "one man bands".

I spoke about "business buyers", by which I meant agencies, large companies and corporations. These are the big players who buy professional camera bodies in large quantities, and these are the people who won't flinch for a moment at spending 8K (much less with bulk discounts) on R1 bodies.


----------



## RayValdez360 (Sep 13, 2021)

Rocksthaman said:


> Anyone else wonder why Canon would unveil the R3 on iPhone 13 day. Seems like another marketing fail (8k/overheating in r5)
> if you ask me.
> 
> Depending on what Apple releases the R3 could be just a blip on the radar.


why would a pro photog give a shit about apple that much. I dont get why people say this. is there a reason why they cant watch both or even get both products?


----------



## VegasCameraGuy (Sep 13, 2021)

CanonWatch has posted what is supposed to be the EOS R3 press release on the new R3. $5,999 and 24.1 mp.









Here Is The Canon EOS R3 Press Release (it's 24MP, $5999, 6k, blackout-free EVF)


A few ours to go but thanks to an anonymous tipster we have the Canon EOS R3 press release for the the one that's born to rule




www.canonwatch.com


----------



## FrenchFry (Sep 13, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> Great point, I do expect it will feel significantly improved over the R5, which was already a great experience.
> 
> I also hope that they have increased the size of it, since the eyepiece looks massive. Granted, that could be space taken up for the eye-AF, but I do hope they've given it a larger magnification.


If the EVF has more magnification but the same number of dots, won't it look more pixelated?


----------



## entoman (Sep 13, 2021)

maulanawale said:


> So true. But hopefully loads, then the R1 is here and BOOM! Near mint R3’s there for the taking on the second hand market. I’ve scored absolute bargains over the years (last one an A7RIV for 2000£ with 500 shots on the shutter) thanks to those more impulsive and way wealthier than me.


I'm never an early adopter, but like most people I love reading the reviews and fantasising that splashing out a small fortune on the latest wonder machine will transform my photography. It rarely does...

New gear can sometimes open new fields of photography, and can certainly improve technical quality, but it very rarely improves an individual's photography. I take better photos with my R5 than I took with my 5DMkiv, and I took better photos with my 5DMkiv than I took with my 6D. But those improvements came as a result of experience and developing better technique and better visualisation over a period of time, and had very little to do with the gear I was using.

When I do buy new gear, I always wait until 6-12 months after launch, by which time the price has dropped to a realistic level (Canon gear in particular is always overpriced at launch). It also pays to wait, just in case the early adopters discover some design fault or operational characteristic that isn't apparent in the early reviews. By the time I buy a camera it's usually already received a couple of firmware updates too, so some of the glitches will have been ironed out.


----------



## FrenchFry (Sep 13, 2021)

H. Jones said:


> Nothing wrong with the R5's viewfinder---I love it--but isn't it a little surprising this release also sounds like it has the same viewfinder as the R5? 5.76 million dots at 120 fps is the spec of the R5. Weird. I know it specifically says a "new" viewfinder, but a little bit surprised that at the price that the camera didn't get a 240 fps mode. Granted, this could also be a battery life thing, since I know using the 120 FPS on the R5 definitely drains the battery faster, and 240 would probably push that even more on a camera that many will be concerned about battery life on.


Yeah, bit disappointed in seeing the same number of dots and same refresh rate as the R5. This will be another area that I expect the R1 to improve on. 
I was really hoping we would see something closer to the A1's EVF, especially at this price point.


----------



## entoman (Sep 13, 2021)

FrenchFry said:


> If the EVF has more magnification but the same number of dots, won't it look more pixelated?


If the Sony A1 is anything to go by, there would be an increase in the number of pixels to compensate for the greater magnification. I think I read that the Sony was slightly let down because the highest refresh rates are only available at lower than maximum EVF resolution, so hopefully Canon can overcome this limitation. I own R5 and 5DMkiv, and I still vastly prefer the big bright screen on the latter. If Canon can produce a really good high magnification EVF it would be a killer feature for me. The viewfinder is the window to the world, and the bigger brighter and more detailed it is, the better.


----------



## MEKKITEL+ (Sep 13, 2021)

HERE IS THE CANON EOS R3 PRESS RELEASE (IT’S 24MP, $5999, 6K, BLACKOUT-FREE EVF): HERE​


----------



## FrenchFry (Sep 13, 2021)

DBounce said:


> Looks like canonwatch got the full scoop:
> 
> 24MP, $5999, 6K, BLACKOUT-FREE EVF
> 
> 6K 60p RAW and 4K 120p 10-bit uncropped video with Canon Log 3 support, in addition to the possibility for oversampled 4K and RAW movie internal recording.


Thanks for sharing!

I did not see any mention of a pixel shift type feature, or any sort of "resolution trick".

Also, nothing that struck me as what Jeff Cable was alluding to when he said there were features that we didn't know about yet. 

We see 6k video, which a lot of people thought would be available, even if the Canon website only advertised oversampled 4k initially. 

No real surprises in this article, but perhaps some surprises will come from the launch event and initial reviews?
The language was fairly muted compared to the embellishments and enthusiasm we saw when speaking of the Revolutionary R5.


----------



## FrenchFry (Sep 13, 2021)

entoman said:


> If the Sony A1 is anything to go by, there would be an increase in the number of pixels to compensate for the greater magnification. I think I read that the Sony was slightly let down because the highest refresh rates are only available at lower than maximum EVF resolution, so hopefully Canon can overcome this limitation. I own R5 and 5DMkiv, and I still vastly prefer the big bright screen on the latter. If Canon can produce a really good high magnification EVF it would be a killer feature for me. The viewfinder is the window to the world, and the bigger brighter and more detailed it is, the better.


Right, so given that the press release says that the R3 has an EVF with 5.76 million dots and that the R5 has 5.76 million dots also, it's unlikely that the R3 will have greater magnification. If it does have greater magnification, it will look more pixelated. 

I was hoping for something with 9+ million dots like the A1.


----------



## dboris (Sep 13, 2021)

6K 60P raw was to be expected, but the rolling shutter/sensor readout times is REALLY the feature that will be game changing, I hope.
Also, the DR maybe. 
R5's DR was awesome in raw, considering it doesn't dual-expose like the C70.


----------



## Rocksthaman (Sep 13, 2021)

RayValdez360 said:


> why would a pro photog give a shit about apple that much. I dont get why people say this. is there a reason why they cant watch both or even get both products?


Literally not the point.

I’m talking about visibility. Day 1 of the A7iv announcement, the full time line on YouTube and most tech sites will be Sony. Tomorrow, it will be Apple, even when Canon is announcing the best camera they have created to date. 

Most people with a 1DX are not “Pro” photographers anyway. Maybe aspiring, but not ft working


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 13, 2021)

unfocused said:


> Where do people get these ideas? As someone recently pointed out, the average professional photographer earns about $41,000 annually. The top 1% are earning around $70,000.
> 
> And, seriously, do you really think more "big whites" are bought by professionals than enthusiasts?
> 
> Enthusiasts are only constrained by their disposable income. Professionals have to earn a return on their purchases.


A bit low for the top 1%, in 2020 it took ~$361K individual or ~$531K household income to pass that threshold. But the principle holds – those of us in that top 1% make more that a typical professional photographer.

As @AlanF points out, enthusiasts are also constrained by their ability to carry the gear. To the extent that wealth increases with age, the ability to afford and the ability to carry a big white are inversely related.


----------



## entoman (Sep 13, 2021)

FrenchFry said:


> Right, so given that the press release says that the R3 has an EVF with 5.76 million dots and that the R5 has 5.76 million dots also, it's unlikely that the R3 will have greater magnification. If it does have greater magnification, it will look more pixelated.
> 
> I was hoping for something with 9+ million dots like the A1.


Correct - I was speculating about the EVF of the R1.


----------



## Chig (Sep 13, 2021)

Canon Rumors Guy said:


> Continue reading...





slimenta said:


> I am new to this discussion and currently shoot with 1DX IIIs with the latest versions of 400 and 600 lenses. What is the expectation of compatibility through an adapter for these lenses.


These amazing lenses should work _even better_ on the R3 just like every EF and EF-s lens ever made does adapted to any R series camera.


----------



## Chig (Sep 13, 2021)

FrenchFry said:


> A supertelephoto designed from the ground-up for RF could have numerous improvements, such as being designed to take advantage of the 11 RF mount pins, which can transmit additional information to the body and potentially improve focus speed/accuracy.
> 
> The rumors for the RF supertelephotos are very exciting, including:
> - A very small/lightweight 500mm F4
> ...


RF version _*less expensive*_ than the EF? I do believe in fairies ! I do!


----------



## unfocused (Sep 13, 2021)

entoman said:


> Why did you not read my post correctly?
> 
> I never mentioned professional photographers, who you apparently believe are all "one man bands".
> 
> I spoke about "business buyers", by which I meant agencies, large companies and corporations. These are the big players who buy professional camera bodies in large quantities, and these are the people who won't flinch for a moment at spending 8K (much less with bulk discounts) on R1 bodies.



Excuse me, but I not only read your post, I directly quoted it. You said a *business* buyer. It pretty easy to see how that would be interpreted to mean a single buyer who is in business since you used the singular "a." I'm not really sure what you were trying to connotate with the asterisks though. 

Now, since you say you were referring to "agencies, large companies and corporations" perhaps you can point to the specific entities that you know won't flinch at spending $8,000 on R1 bodies. And, while you are at it, perhaps you can document how large that market is.


----------



## FrenchFry (Sep 13, 2021)

Chig said:


> RF version _*less expensive*_ than the EF? I do believe in fairies ! I do!



I said that "it is possible (not guaranteed) that [the rumored RF 300mm, 500mm, and 200-400mm lenses] will be less expensive than the 400mm F2.8 ($12000) and 600mm F4 ($13000)." 

This would be consistent with Canon (and Nikon's) pricing strategy for these different focal lengths.

What do you believe makes this statement on par with fairies?


----------



## Chig (Sep 13, 2021)

Skyscraperfan said:


> I always thought that 4K with low noise at night is a good addition to a camera, but then I see videos like this that remind me that you can buy things like a DJI Pocket 2 for 400 Euros or so and the quality is amazing. Of course you can't mount your lenses on it, but for people like me who see video just as a bonus. something like those cheap walkaround video camera take away the need to buy a large camera that can do video:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


A smartphone takes amazing videos if the light is reasonable and the subject is close enough


----------



## Kiton (Sep 13, 2021)

john1970 said:


> For me there are still a lot I do not know about the R3, which I really hope the following info is released in the formal announcement or covered by reviewers of the camera:
> 
> 1)
> 2) Can the electronic shutter be used at speeds slower than 30 fps? ** HUGE POINT. Sony can do it, why not Canon**
> ...



You pretty much nailed all my major questions too!
I never hit buffer with the R5 so not too worried about this body, even more so if the file is really 1/2 the size of R5 (which pisses me off, should be 30)


----------



## Chig (Sep 13, 2021)

fox40phil said:


> how about shorter minimum focus distance?! …


RF 600mm f/4 Macro ? 
So much more convenient than my EF100-400ii for handheld shooting bugs and flowers and the weight and price wouldn't put me off !


----------



## unfocused (Sep 13, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> A bit low for the top 1%, in 2020 it took ~$361K individual or ~$531K household income to pass that threshold. But the principle holds – those of us in that top 1% make more that a typical professional photographer.
> 
> As @AlanF points out, enthusiasts are also constrained by their ability to carry the gear. To the extent that wealth increases with age, the ability to afford and the ability to carry a big white are inversely related.


Oh sorry to be unclear. The stat I was quoting was the top 1% of photographers. The average was $41,000 and at the upper end one percent of photographers earned more than $70,000. Of course that includes the superstar photographers earning hundreds of thousands, but it also indicates that if you can clear $70,000 a year as a photographer, you are doing pretty well by comparison to the average.

As to the other point, at 68 I am in that category that is concerned about the weight of the gear. As I've said, that's one of the main reasons I intend to sell the 1dX III and buy the R3 -- Not so much the weight of the camera, which is still significant, but because I can dispense with duplicate lenses.


----------



## Chig (Sep 13, 2021)

HenryL said:


> You would be correct about jail time. NDA is a civil contract, you’d not get jail time.


No but you'd never get any new gear to review from Canon ever again so totally worth it !


----------



## Rocksthaman (Sep 13, 2021)

The 12 fps mechanical explains the non flagship comment. Curious to see the difference if there is one.


----------



## john1970 (Sep 13, 2021)

Based on the press release it appears to have the same mechanical shutter limit of 12 fps. I really really hope the frame rate on the electronic shutter is adjustable. I would dislike having to choose between 12 fps mechanical and 30 fps electronic. Honestly I would like 10, 20, 30 fps electronic and would likely never use the mechanical shutter. Also would like to know if spot metering is linked to the AF point.


----------



## john1970 (Sep 13, 2021)

FrenchFry said:


> Thanks for sharing!
> 
> I did not see any mention of a pixel shift type feature, or any sort of "resolution trick".
> 
> ...


You bring up a very good points with regards to Jeff Cable's comments about all the additional features and where is that resolution trick?


----------



## danfaz (Sep 13, 2021)

Emyr Evans said:


> "Featuring a new 5.76-million-dot and 120fps blackout-free1 Electronic Viewfinder"
> 
> Same EVF as the R5; was hoping for a bump in resolution, maybe to the same as the A1. Maybe they've kept that for the R1.


Wait, the R5 has eye-controlled AF?


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 13, 2021)

JMV Portraits said:


> 5. Cross-type vs non-cross-type is only relevent to phase-detect AF systems. Being a mirrorless camera, calling the R3's AF points "cross-type" or "non-cross-type" is meaningless, unless Canon introduces something new, not directly related to PDAF cross-type sensors, but names it "cross-type". The closest corrolary in mirrorless systems to cross-type AF systems is probably larger AF points.


Just to be clear, Canon’s dual-pixel AF (DPAF) *is* phase detect AF. You may be thinkimg mirrorless cameras are limited to contrast-detect AF, which was true many years ago but no longer.

In a DSLR’s PDAF system, incoming light is split by microprisms and directed to pairs of line sensors on the PDAF sensor, which enables determination of the phase difference. For a cross-type AF point, there are two pairs of line sensors oriented orthogonally, so phase differences can be detected in horizontal and vertical orientations.

With DPAF, each pixel on the image sensor is split in half, and short rows of them are used as functional equivalents of the paired line sensors of a dedicated PDAF sensor. An advantage of that is the separation of those short rows can be dynamically set. On a PDAF sensor they have a fixed separation, resulting in a defined lens maximum aperture needed for the AF point – closely-spaced line pairs for f/5.6 lenses, line pairs spaced almost to the edges of the AF sensor for f/2.8 lenses, with the wider baseline resulting in more accurate AF (Canon calls those ‘high precision’ which is actually a misuse of precision vs. accuracy). With DPAF, narrower baselines allow PDAF with narrower apertures, thus we have f/11 lenses for RF.

However, with DPAF the pixels are all split in the same direction, so detection of phase difference is constrained to horizontally-oriented features. There are no cross-type points in Canon’s DPAF…yet. Some have proposed/speculated on quad-pixel AF, where each pixel is split both horizontally and vertically. Canon may instead choose to alternate the orientation of the split in adjacent pixels, as suggested by a patent of theirs that published a while back (long enough that it _could_ be in the R3, but they may reserve it for the R1).




Note also that other MILC manufacturers (Sony/Olympus at least, IDK about Fuji/Nikon) also use PDAF in their MILCs. Those image sensors have microprisms similar to a DSLR’s PDAF system in the light path, and there are PDAF paired line sensors mixed in with the image-sensing pixels. As a result, those pixel rows on the sensor dedicated to PDAF have their image data interpolated from the surrounding region.

Hope that clarifies.


----------



## FrenchFry (Sep 13, 2021)

Chig said:


> RF 600mm f/4 Macro ?
> So much more convenient than my EF100-400ii for handheld shooting bugs and flowers and the weight and price wouldn't put me off !


If weight and price put you off then you're not the intended market for a 600mm F4 lens, so it does not matter to you or Canon anyway. Lots of people use tripods for macro work. 
If Canon wants to make a 600mm F4 specialized macro lens, bring it on. It will definitely make someone, somewhere, very happy.


----------



## RayValdez360 (Sep 13, 2021)

RayValdez360 said:


> why would a pro photog give a shit about apple that much. I dont get why people say this. is there a reason why they cant watch both or even get both products?





Rocksthaman said:


> Literally not the point.
> 
> I’m talking about visibility. Day 1 of the A7iv announcement, the full time line on YouTube and most tech sites will be Sony. Tomorrow, it will be Apple, even when Canon is announcing the best camera they have created to date.
> 
> Most people with a 1DX are not “Pro” photographers anyway. Maybe aspiring, but not ft working


You are acting like this is some type of huge conference. It is literally going to some clips of reps and ambassadors talking. Also publications and blogs that got the camera. You can watch all that stuff whenever. If Canon's job is to get the most viewers ever to see this product they did a piss poor job compared to how they handled the R5 as to this day.


----------



## Emyr Evans (Sep 13, 2021)

danfaz said:


> Wait, the R5 has eye-controlled AF?


I was talking about resolution and refresh rate. Of course, you're an intelligent being... you knew that.


----------



## entoman (Sep 13, 2021)

unfocused said:


> Excuse me, but I not only read your post, I directly quoted it. You said a *business* buyer. It pretty easy to see how that would be interpreted to mean a single buyer who is in business since you used the singular "a." I'm not really sure what you were trying to connotate with the asterisks though.
> 
> Now, since you say you were referring to "agencies, large companies and corporations" perhaps you can point to the specific entities that you know won't flinch at spending $8,000 on R1 bodies. And, while you are at it, perhaps you can document how large that market is.


I specifically referred to "business buyers" to differentiate between them and small scale one-man operations who quite obviously have less to spend.

It's probably impossible to obtain representative and reliable figures on how much corporations, agencies or individual photographers have historically spent on camera bodies, so there's little point in pursuing that line, but come on...

Do you really think that agencies and corporations with multi-thousand dollar budgets are going to worry about the difference in price between an R1 and a 1Dxiii, Z9 or A1...?

Seriously?


----------



## Skyscraperfan (Sep 13, 2021)

There are seven hours between the starts of the Canon and the Apple events. So no collision there tomorrow.


----------



## FrenchFry (Sep 13, 2021)

john1970 said:


> Based on the press release it appears to have the same mechanical shutter limit of 12 fps. I really really hope the frame rate on the electronic shutter is adjustable. I would dislike having to choose between 12 fps mechanical and 30 fps electronic. Honestly I would like 10, 20, 30 fps electronic and would likely never use the mechanical shutter. Also would like to know if spot metering is linked to the AF point.


It's not clear, but the language from the press release suggests some FPS options might be possible given that it says "up to 30 fps". Then again, if it's like the R5 and has two options (1 and 20 for the R5), then technically it could have the same level of flexibility of 1 FPS and 30FPS and get away with "up to 30 fps" terminology.

Also, we don't know if all lenses will support 30FPS or if some lenses will make it slower than 30FPS. It would be a bummer if using an old lens was the only way to get, say 15FPS or 20FPS.

I suspect that it will be more flexible this time though, given the complaints received about this in the R5:

"The core of the EOS R3 features a Canon designed and manufactured 24.1-megapixel back-illuminated stacked CMOS sensor. The sensor is the first of its kind from Canon, and when combined with the DIGIC X processor, delivers a high-speed readout allowing for continuous blackout-free shooting1 at *up to 30 fps in electronic (silent) shutter mode *and up to 12 fps in mechanical shutter, with minimum rolling electronic shutter distortion."








Here Is The Canon EOS R3 Press Release (it's 24MP, $5999, 6k, blackout-free EVF)


A few ours to go but thanks to an anonymous tipster we have the Canon EOS R3 press release for the the one that's born to rule




www.canonwatch.com


----------



## FrenchFry (Sep 13, 2021)

No mention of "GPS" in this announcement, either. 









Here Is The Canon EOS R3 Press Release (it's 24MP, $5999, 6k, blackout-free EVF)


A few ours to go but thanks to an anonymous tipster we have the Canon EOS R3 press release for the the one that's born to rule




www.canonwatch.com


----------



## slclick (Sep 13, 2021)

Erksn said:


> The new RF 100-400 is just what I need, a light lens for hiking. It was so close that I ordered Tamron's 100-400. I really hope the sharpness is good though.
> 
> One negative part as I see it, it does not seem to have a tripod mount, but perhaps the lens is so light that it’s not needed.


I'm right with you and I'll tell you what it also doesn't have that the Tamron would, an EF-RF adapter! I've had the Tamron and consider myself to be a good just of that lens' strengths and limitations so I'm excited to see how the Cann fares, which I feel as an RF and designed for ML will be a better than forum dwellers think it will be (as has most non L RF glass been)


----------



## FrenchFry (Sep 13, 2021)

For those who like the background narrative to make them feel warm and fuzzy about their purchase, Nokishita has leaked some product narratives, available here:









canon.pdf







drive.google.com





*RF16mm F2.8 STM*
Compact, versatile, speedy and affordable, the new RF16mm F2.8 STM lens is a terrific complement to any
EOS R series digital camera. Offering an ultra-wide angle of view and a bright f/2.8 aperture, it’s an
excellent choice whether taking interior photos in tight spaces, seeking out the perfect landscape, or as the
perfect webcam lens when used in combination with an EOS camera and EOS Webcam Utility on a video
call. With a 16mm F2.8 lens, you can experiment with enhancing perspectives, capturing starscapes, or with
the close focusing distance of 13cm, get up close to your subject while still keeping the background more
visible. Video users will find this ultra-wide lens a natural for vlogging, especially with its supremely light
weight.
With its remarkable combination of optical excellence and refined performance, all in a small package that’s
easy to bring most anywhere, the RF16mm F2.8 STM is a stellar companion to any EOS R series digital
camera.

*RF100-400mm F5.6-8 IS USM*
Perfect for wildlife, sports, travel and more, the RF100-400mm F5.6-8 IS USM is a compact, lightweight
telephoto lens for EOS R Series cameras, offering a versatile zoom range that brings subjects closer with
ease. The RF100-400mm F5.6-8 IS USM is similar in size to the EF 70-300mm F4.5-5.6 IS II USM lens, but
not only reaches to 400mm, but also has fast Nano USM focusing and up to 6 stops of Coordinated IS when
used in combination with an EOS R series camera featuring In-body Image Stabilization like the EOS R5
and EOS R6, or 5.5 stops with an EOS R/RP camera. Using a single Ultra Low Dispersion lens element
towards the front of the lens group corrects chromatic aberration throughout the entire zoom range, making
your images look crisp and colorful with minimal color blur. The RF100-400mm F5.6-8 IS USM lens can also
accept both the RF1.4x and RF2x tele extenders giving you the effective maximum focal length of 560mm
and 800mm respectively. With a control ring that allows for quick setting changes, including shutter speed
and aperture, the RF100-400mm F5.6-8 IS USM lens puts quality, convenience and control in your hands.

*DM-E1D*
The Stereo Microphone DM-E1D is a compact microphone accessory for compatible EOS cameras that
include the multi-function shoe. The Stereo Microphone DM-E1D easily mounts to the multifunction
hotshoe creating a digital connection to the camera. This means that no internal battery or cable connecting
the mic to the camera's mic port are required, helping you utilize the mic longer and also no impediment in
using the vari-angle screen to its full range. It features a number of directional controls to suit the
environment and your shooting needs. Shotgun mode keeps audio focused on a subject directly in front of the
camera, such as when interviewing someone for a documentary. Stereo (90°/120°) mode captures audio over
a wide area for more ambient sound, ideal for nature scenes or entire orchestras. Adjusting the mic controls
is as simple as pressing the menu button on the back of the microphone and using the touchscreen LCD on
the back of the EOS camera to change settings. Whether you're looking to capture an interview, record a
concert or simply capture the sights and sounds of nature, the Stereo Microphone DM-E1D pairs
wonderfully with a compatible EOS digital camera to help you achieve impressive audio.

*AD-E1*
For a seamless transition from your current hot shoe accessories to the multi-function shoe, the
Multi-Function Shoe Adapter AD-E1 is the answer. The Multi-Function Shoe Adapter AD-E1 provides a
reliable connection for dust and drip proof Speedlite accessories that you may already own such as the
Speedlite EL-1, Speedlite 600EX II-RT, Speedlite 600EX-RT, Speedlite 580EX II, ST-E3-RT or OC-E3 flash
cord. The shoe adapter will also hold current accessories such as shotgun mics and on-camera LED panels
securely to the camera body with dual locking pins on the multi-function shoe side.

*ST-E10*
For wireless Speedlite setups requiring one or more off-camera flashes, the Speedlite Transmitter ST-E10
delivers a transmitter compatible with EOS cameras that include the multi-function shoe. Since this
transmitter maintains a digital connection to the camera through the shoe, it does not require batteries,
making the design approximately 30% smaller and approximately 50% lighter (than the ST-E3-RT II).
Controlling and changing the 5 independent groups across 15 Speedlites is as easy as pressing the menu
button located on the transmitter and adjusting the settings from the vari-angle touchscreen on the back of
the camera, or with the flash setting screen when using the Canon Camera Connect app on your smartphone.
With full flash control at your fingertips, the Speedlite Transmitter ST-E10 is an indispensable tool for
advanced, professional flash photography.


----------



## takesome1 (Sep 13, 2021)

unfocused said:


> Oh sorry to be unclear.......



Either reading comprehension or a declaration of Income.
I am not sure which.


----------



## FrenchFry (Sep 14, 2021)

Will we see more lenses announced (or pre-announced) tomorrow?

If so, will one of them be another RF 50mm F1.2 USM lens? I can't read the screenshot from the tweet, nor can I apply translation to an image, but I do see the words "RF50mm F1.2L USM" next to 5554C005AA, which appears to be the topic of the tweet about an "unreleased interchangeable lens SKU '5554C005'" being registered for overseas certification. 

It is hard to imagine that a second RF 50mm F1.2 USM lens would be a priority right now...


----------



## john1970 (Sep 14, 2021)

FrenchFry said:


> For those who like the background narrative to make them feel warm and fuzzy about their purchase, Nokishita has leaked some product narratives, available here:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


Nice to see that the inexpensive 100-400 mm zoom can accept teleconverters.


----------



## FrenchFry (Sep 14, 2021)

If I am understanding correctly, the AD-E1 Adapter will be required to be able to plug in your existing hot shoe accessories into the R3's multi-function shoe. Meaning, you cannot use your speedlite or transmitter or other equipment you already own natively on this shoe, you can only use it with this $39 adapter that will not be available for purchase until February 2022.

This seems like a blatant push to get people who already own adaptable equipment to buy new equipment they shouldn't need to replace. For instance, anyone who already owns the St-E3-RT and needs to use it to fire a flash between when they receive the camera in November (if they get it) and when the the adapter is available in February would need to buy the ST-E10, which they might otherwise prefer not to purchase since the ST-E3-RT should be compatible with all of their cameras, and they may not want to carry around an ST-E10 just to use on one R3 body (or spend money on it). I think this explains, at least partially, why the leaked price of the ST-E10 ($119) is lower than the price of the ST-E3-RT ($300+).

Hopefully I am missing something here.

*AD-E1*
_*For a seamless transition from your current hot shoe accessories to the multi-function shoe, the
Multi-Function Shoe Adapter AD-E1 is the answer. The Multi-Function Shoe Adapter AD-E1 provides a
reliable connection for dust and drip proof Speedlite accessories that you may already own such as the
Speedlite EL-1, Speedlite 600EX II-RT, Speedlite 600EX-RT, Speedlite 580EX II, ST-E3-RT or OC-E3 flash*_
*cord. *The shoe adapter will also hold current accessories such as shotgun mics and on-camera LED panels
securely to the camera body with dual locking pins on the multi-function shoe side.

*ST-E10*
For wireless Speedlite setups requiring one or more off-camera flashes, the Speedlite Transmitter ST-E10
delivers a transmitter compatible with EOS cameras that include the multi-function shoe. Since this
transmitter maintains a digital connection to the camera through the shoe, it does not require batteries,
making the design approximately 30% smaller and approximately 50% lighter (than the ST-E3-RT II).
Controlling and changing the 5 independent groups across 15 Speedlites is as easy as pressing the menu
button located on the transmitter and adjusting the settings from the vari-angle touchscreen on the back of
the camera, or with the flash setting screen when using the Canon Camera Connect app on your smartphone.
With full flash control at your fingertips, the Speedlite Transmitter ST-E10 is an indispensable tool for
advanced, professional flash photography.


----------



## InchMetric (Sep 14, 2021)

fox40phil said:


> how about shorter minimum focus distance?! …


Sounds nice. But why do you assume that they didn’t already optimize this three years ago? I get the wish lists, but when you optimize a modern design, changing the Mount doesn’t necessarily enable much. Especially when the design was being developed along side and presumably for the Mount.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Sep 14, 2021)

FrenchFry said:


> *AD-E1*
> For a seamless transition from your current hot shoe accessories to the multi-function shoe, the
> Multi-Function Shoe Adapter AD-E1 is the answer. The Multi-Function Shoe Adapter AD-E1 provides a
> reliable connection for dust and drip proof Speedlite accessories that you may already own such as the Speedlite EL-1, Speedlite 600EX II-RT, Speedlite 600EX-RT, Speedlite 580EX II, ST-E3-RT or OC-E3 flash cord.


A better answer would be backward compatibility. Argh.


----------



## djack41 (Sep 14, 2021)

InchMetric said:


> The newest, most advanced, best supertelephoto lens ever just isn’t new enough? Can you share what improvements you would suggest?


Sure. Maybe make it significantly lighter. Maybe produce a DO 600mm which they paraded about the trade shows for a few years. Maybe redesign the optics to gain the advantages of a true RF mount. Get rid of the silly permanent adapter which would at least shorten the lens. I own the EF 600 lll and it is wonderful. Just saying.....


----------



## FrenchFry (Sep 14, 2021)

neuroanatomist said:


> A better answer would be backward compatibility. Argh.


Agreed. It reminds me of all the dongles Apple sold because they switched to USB-C ports only. Made them lots of money, but was super inconvenient and annoying to the customer. It now seems they are going to go back to having multiple ports, so lesson learned for Apple. 

Seems like we will go through the same growing pains with Canon on the R3.


----------



## Chig (Sep 14, 2021)

FrenchFry said:


> I said that "it is possible (not guaranteed) that [the rumored RF 300mm, 500mm, and 200-400mm lenses] will be less expensive than the 400mm F2.8 ($12000) and 600mm F4 ($13000)."
> 
> This would be consistent with Canon (and Nikon's) pricing strategy for these different focal lengths.
> 
> What do you believe makes this statement on par with fairies?


It appeared to me you were hoping that RF versions of the same lens would be cheaper which would be pretty optimistic  
The different focal length/aperture lenses would normally vary in price of course but that isn't any anything to do with the mount.
I'm hoping Canon make some RF freznell lenses similar to the amazing EF400mm DO f/4 ii , perhaps :

RF300 DO f/2.8
RF400 DO f/4
RF500 DO f/5
EF600 DO f5.6 
RF200-600 DO f/5.6 super zoom
hopefully with builtin switchable 1.4x and 2x extenders like their patent a while ago .


----------



## unfocused (Sep 14, 2021)

entoman said:


> Do you really think that agencies and corporations with multi-thousand dollar budgets are going to worry about the difference in price between an R1 and a 1Dxiii, Z9 or A1...?
> 
> Seriously?



I would be very surprised if there are very many agencies and corporations that are buying 1 series style cameras, whether it is Canon, Nikon or Sony. In the early 2000s I worked for the world's largest telecommunications company. Within a large multinational company like that, each division is run like a separate company with its own budget and within each division, the departments are also run like a small company with a limited budget. Every expense had to be justified to the manager and budget officer. They have a fixed budget and every new expenditure is evaluated in terms of what else they might spend their budget on. So, yeah, I do think that agencies and corporations with multi-thousand dollar budgets are going to take price into consideration.

But, to be honest, I'm not sure what your point was. Do you really think there are thousands of companies that are in the market for 1 series cameras and that those businesses constitute a larger market than enthusiasts? If you really believe that, then there is no reason to continue this conversation because we are too far apart on who is the target market is for the 1 series cameras.


----------



## Chig (Sep 14, 2021)

djack41 said:


> Sure. Maybe make it significantly lighter. Maybe produce a DO 600mm which they paraded about the trade shows for a few years. Maybe redesign the optics to gain the advantages of a true RF mount. Get rid of the silly permanent adapter which would at least shorten the lens. I own the EF 600 lll and it is wonderful. Just saying.....


A DO version would be a bit lighter and shorter but otherwise you haven't suggested any advantages at all . 
The "builtin adapter'' is no different to building a new design.
The shorter flange distance has no significant effect on long focal length lenses
Apart from using freznel elements a new clean sheet design would be no different in any meaningful way other than perhaps some gains electronically from the extra contact points


----------



## Chig (Sep 14, 2021)

FrenchFry said:


> Agreed. It reminds me of all the dongles Apple sold because they switched to USB-C ports only. Made them lots of money, but was super inconvenient and annoying to the customer. It now seems they are going to go back to having multiple ports, so lesson learned for Apple.
> 
> Seems like we will go through the same growing pains with Canon on the R3.


So make an EF mount for a new RF lens perhaps ?


----------



## InchMetric (Sep 14, 2021)

djack41 said:


> Sure. Maybe make it significantly lighter. Maybe produce a DO 600mm which they paraded about the trade shows for a few years. Maybe redesign the optics to gain the advantages of a true RF mount. Get rid of the silly permanent adapter which would at least shorten the lens. I own the EF 600 lll and it is wonderful. Just saying.....


They already made it as light as they could.

A DO is a different lens for a different purpose.

Long lenses don’t care about the distance to the image plane.

With the EF and adapters, why not address the RF only base? Granted I’d like to see them offer semi permanent adapters sold to be dedicated to the lens for RF and removable with some deliberate effort for EF. But that’s because I have a patent about to be granted on the concept. (Available for licensing at reasonable rates).

I stand by my opinion that there is nothing in the RF 400 that could have been realistically changed or improved to satisfy the “it’s not new enough to give me my dopamine hit” crowd.


----------



## Franklyok (Sep 14, 2021)

still no AD-E1 ?


----------



## entoman (Sep 14, 2021)

unfocused said:


> I would be very surprised if there are very many agencies and corporations that are buying 1 series style cameras, whether it is Canon, Nikon or Sony. In the early 2000s I worked for the world's largest telecommunications company. Within a large multinational company like that, each division is run like a separate company with its own budget and within each division, the departments are also run like a small company with a limited budget. Every expense had to be justified to the manager and budget officer. They have a fixed budget and every new expenditure is evaluated in terms of what else they might spend their budget on. So, yeah, I do think that agencies and corporations with multi-thousand dollar budgets are going to take price into consideration.
> 
> But, to be honest, I'm not sure what your point was. Do you really think there are thousands of companies that are in the market for 1 series cameras and that those businesses constitute a larger market than enthusiasts? If you really believe that, then there is no reason to continue this conversation because we are too far apart on who is the target market is for the 1 series cameras.


Only Canon knows the target market for their cameras. In their press release for the R3 they simply state that the camera is "professional grade", and that they "look forward to seeing the camera in action on the sidelines of sporting events and in the hands of nature and wildlife photographers across the globe".

So the target market includes sports, nature and wildlife photographers. I think it's pretty safe to say that the target market also includes wedding, events and reportage. In other words, it's aimed at pretty much the same market as the 1Dxiii.

Where we apparently differ regards whether the majority of purchasers are individuals or agencies/corporations. Wedding, nature and wildlife photographers are almost exclusively one-man bands, but I'd estimate that a high percentage of *professional* sports and reportage photographers have their equipment supplied by agencies, corporations and/or rental companies.

If you see no reason to continue the conversation that's fine, it's not worth falling out over it


----------



## unfocused (Sep 14, 2021)

entoman said:


> Only Canon knows the target market for their cameras. In their press release for the R3 they simply state that the camera is "professional grade", and that they "look forward to seeing the camera in action on the sidelines of sporting events and in the hands of nature and wildlife photographers across the globe".
> 
> So the target market includes sports, nature and wildlife photographers. I think it's pretty safe to say that the target market also includes wedding, events and reportage. In other words, it's aimed at pretty much the same market as the 1Dxiii.
> 
> ...


Hah! breaking up is hard to do. 

I've kind of lost track of where we started.


----------



## djack41 (Sep 15, 2021)

InchMetric said:


> They already made it as light as they could.
> 
> A DO is a different lens for a different purpose.
> 
> ...


Adding the permanent adapter lengthened the lens. The lens could have been shorter with the expanded RF connections.

DO is for a different purpose? My 400 DO ll is a light, compact lens. Wildlife shooters have had fingers crossed for the 600 DO to go into production ever since Canon teased us with the prototype. Maybe a DO with an integrated teleconverter like the EF 200-400. Oh well.......


----------



## InchMetric (Sep 15, 2021)

djack41 said:


> Adding the permanent adapter lengthened the lens. The lens could have been shorter with the expanded RF connections.
> 
> DO is for a different purpose? My 400 DO ll is a light, compact lens. Wildlife shooters have had fingers crossed for the 600 DO to go into production ever since Canon teased us with the prototype. Maybe a DO with an integrated teleconverter like the EF 200-400. Oh well.......


Sounds like you were hoping for a different lens. Which is unrelated to my topic of those whose primary complain was that it was an “old” design and not “new”.


----------



## djack41 (Sep 15, 2021)

InchMetric said:


> Sounds like you were hoping for a different lens. Which is unrelated to my topic of those whose primary complain was that it was an “old” design and not “new”.


The RF 600 is a EF 600 lll with an permanent adapter. Get it.


----------

