# The Next DSLR Will Be Entry Level [CR3]



## Canon Rumors Guy (Jan 17, 2014)

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We’re told by a great source that the next Canon DSLR announced with be a brand new entry level model below the EOS 100D. We’re told the announcement is “soon”. Which we expect to be for CP+ next month in Tokyo.</p>
<p>The same source also commented that two more DSLRs would be announced in 2014 and one of them would be the EOS 7D Mark II. There was no mention of what the third one would be, as that could still be under tight wrap in Japan.</p>
<p>No specs were given for any of the cameras.</p>
<p>It was also confirmed that “a lot” of lenses were coming this year.</p>
<p><strong><span style="color: #ff0000;">c</span>r</strong></p>
```


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## cnardo (Jan 17, 2014)

7D Mark ll. YES ! ;D


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## jebrady03 (Jan 17, 2014)

How does it get more "entry level" than the 100D?


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## Dylan777 (Jan 17, 2014)

"It was also confirmed that “a lot” of lenses were coming this year" - my source has confirmed one of these lenses will be 16-35 III. IQ is Better than Nikorrr 14-24 f2.8 ;D


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 17, 2014)

jebrady03 said:


> How does it get more "entry level" than the 100D?



The SL1 is based on the xxxD line. Maybe a smaller version of the T3/1100D?


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## KyleSTL (Jan 17, 2014)

Not surprising. The specifications of the 1100D are embarrassing compared to the D3300 (and the D3200 and D3100 that preceded it). The Pentax K500 and all the Sony offerings are considerably better in every aspect as well. With the exception of the 100D (size) and 70D (dual pixel AF), Canon's crop offering are pretty dated and uninteresting. That said, I have no idea how they will update the 1100D (throw in a T1i sensor with 1080p, perhaps?). That would make sense since the 1000D was a reheated 400D (XTi) with a slightly larger screen, and the 1100D was a reheated 450D (XSi) with video. I'm not sure how they would differentiate a 1200D from the 100D, 550D, 600D, 650D, 700D, 60D or 7D that all contain 18MP sensors.


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## 9VIII (Jan 17, 2014)

Wow, they found a way. I never would have thought it, but they found a way to put the same 18 megapixel sensor, that they've been using since 2009, into another camera.
That marks 10 (ten!) bodies that use the same sensor.

And they've still got to release the 750D/T6i, which means if they were only going to release three bodies that would leave room for just one high end camera.


To put in a good word for the 1100D, the battery on that thing lasts forever. As a walk around body I would still rather have that than many of the more recent offerings.


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## dufflover (Jan 17, 2014)

Is it just me or are these leaks getting worse and worse lol. I don't mean in the sense of "oh another Rebel" but they seem worded in that vibe of Canon just trying to stop people doing "stuff" (like people speculate in the occasional forum post).

I mean here we are chalking up another "Someone close to official said 7D2 is coming rumour" after how many years lol


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## Woody (Jan 17, 2014)

jebrady03 said:


> How does it get more "entry level" than the 100D?



edit: Thought about it. It's possible. See my post after this.


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## Woody (Jan 17, 2014)

KyleSTL said:


> I'm not sure how they would differentiate a 1200D from the 100D, 550D, 600D, 650D, 700D, 60D or 7D that all contain 18MP sensors.



Compare 100D (SL1) to 1100D (T3): 18 vs 12 MP, 4 vs 3 fps, VF magnification 0.87x vs 0.8x, 1MP vs 230k pixel LCD. Bump T3 with 12 MP to 18 MP and keep the price around US$400. That's your 1200D (T4).


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## Aglet (Jan 17, 2014)

KyleSTL said:


> ..I'm not sure how they would differentiate a 1200D from the 100D, 550D, 600D, 650D, 700D, 60D or 7D that all contain 18MP sensors.



Hmmm.. is it time to bring out the DIRECT PRINT button joke again?
Maybe a programmable one this time.


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## Woody (Jan 17, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> The SL1 is based on the xxxD line. Maybe a smaller version of the T3/1100D?



Sounds logical. Squeeze the T3/1100D specs (12 MP, smaller viewfinder, poorer LCD, slower fps) into SL1 body and keep the price the same as current T3/1100D. Sounds like a great idea.


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## Canon 14-24 (Jan 17, 2014)

Gimme my 14-24 (w/ no garbage hood like the nikon equivalent)!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Woody (Jan 17, 2014)

Canon Rumors said:


> It was also confirmed that “a lot” of lenses were coming this year.



I hope they release the EF 16-50 mm f/4 IS and EF 50 mm f/1.8 IS lenses soon. Will like to take them for my upcoming (July) trip to Japan.


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## ewg963 (Jan 17, 2014)

7D Mark II bring it on!!!


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## pj1974 (Jan 17, 2014)

_*Yes yes yes!!!*_ A CR3!!! That's what I've been waiting for.... and it feels so long. 8) Well... I hope the CR3 also applies to the news about the 7DmkII.....

Entry level = *relatively boring* (for me)... And I believe that if there is an 'entry level' update, it will likely be an update to the 1100D, likely being a 1200D. The specs of those cameras is fairly basic... I generally don't recommend people go for the xxxxD series of Canon, but rather go for the 'xxxD' / Rebel series. (I have a 350D, my first DSLR, and still use it as a backup). I think the 700D is decently spec’d and priced for what it is.

The 7DmkII ... well THAT is *super exciting* (for me!) I own a 7D, and lovey that camera... and should I ever need a new/replacement camera, it would most likely be a successor to the 7D (eg 7DmkII or 7DmkIII, etc). I realise that the 7D could be improved upon (the most requested update would be an improved sensor – lower noise, higher DR & less banding) – but as I’m not a pixel peeper – I don’t find the quality limits me much. The current 7D’s AF is very good – but could be somewhat improved upon (it appears the 70D’s AF has ironed out some of the 7D’s minor bugs – though I realise many 7D users won’t have noticed these, eg the occasional ‘jumpy’ nature of AF in certain situation / lighting). 

But by and large, the 7D is a very capable camera with lots of impressive specs (particularly for when it came out) – including a superb handling body, well implemented video, good image quality, flexible powerful AF, fast FPS, etc. So I hope (and expect!) the 7DmkII will be an impressive camera, and hoping it will be like the 5DmkIII has been to the 5D line (where the 5DmkII was not much of an improvement in some areas).

I’m also _quite interested_ what the ‘other camera’ (3rd, potential “new in 2014” Canon DSLR) could be… perhaps the high resolution / high DR FF (3D / other xD series?) If so, hopefully that technology will trickle down (and ‘up’) to other lines and Canon bodies.

Finally, the ‘lots of lenses’ bids great news too and I'm VERY interested in this development / reality… again, if that’s CR3 worthy (hearing from the ‘same source’- is a very welcome sign, I’d say)! The only lens I’m really hanging out for, is a fast EF Canon 50mm prime (with USM and hopefully IS)… to complete my lens line-up. Hopefully Sigma’s new 50mm Art will challenge Canon to have a great competitor to that….

*Thanks Canon Rumours* for this good news at the end of a working week (here in Australia)! Wishing all a good weekend, with lots of CR3 news becoming reality soon….. (My photography funds are at the ready!) 

Paul


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 17, 2014)

KyleSTL said:


> Not surprising. The specifications of the 1100D are embarrassing compared to the D3300 (and the D3200 and D3100 that preceded it). The Pentax K500 and all the Sony offerings are considerably better in every aspect as well. With the exception of the 100D (size) and 70D (dual pixel AF), Canon's crop offering are pretty dated and uninteresting.



And yet...not surprisingly, the SL1, T3i, and T3 are all outselling the D3200 and D3100 on Amazon - so maybe Nikon should be embarrassed? Pentax and Sony? LOL. Judging by their sales rankings, consumers don't find them interesting at all. No Sony cameras in Amazon's Top 30 dSLRs. Speaking of 'dated', there is a Pentax at #29...but it's not the 'considerably better' K500, but rather the K-1000...I guess it's a good thing you can buy the film (!) for it on Amazon, too.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Jan 17, 2014)

dufflover said:


> Is it just me or are these leaks getting worse and worse lol. I don't mean in the sense of "oh another Rebel" but they seem worded in that vibe of Canon just trying to stop people doing "stuff" (like people speculate in the occasional forum post).
> 
> I mean here we are chalking up another "Someone close to official said 7D2 is coming rumour" after how many years lol


Can you post the number of CR3 rumors that have been wrong over the years? I don't recall any.


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## distant.star (Jan 17, 2014)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> dufflover said:
> 
> 
> > Is it just me or are these leaks getting worse and worse lol. I don't mean in the sense of "oh another Rebel" but they seem worded in that vibe of Canon just trying to stop people doing "stuff" (like people speculate in the occasional forum post).
> ...



I had same sort of thought when I saw this post. If memory serves, this is the first CR3 notice I've seen for the 7D2 -- and that's big news, very big news. How could it possibly be characterized as "worse"?


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## Ellen Schmidtee (Jan 17, 2014)

I think Canon's strategy for the xxxxD line is "keep those manufacturing lines running until we squeeze the last cent out of it".

E.g. Canon had a 12.2MP sensor manufacturing line set up for the 450D, people were willing to pay for it, so why scratch it when that many more dollars can be squeezed out of it?

A 7Dmk2 would probably use a new sensor, so I wouldn't be surprised if Canon released a 1200D with the 7D's sensor, and make the last [maybe not so] few dollars they can make out of it.

Also, there might be a psychological trick here. There's a known trick in restaurants - people feel uncomfortable ordering the most expensive dish, so another more expensive dish the restaurant doesn't plan on selling often is added, increasing sales of the now 2nd most expensive dish significantly. Possibly keeping the bottom of the line model running (at a low cost) helps the sales of the line above it.


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## LetTheRightLensIn (Jan 17, 2014)

jebrady03 said:


> How does it get more "entry level" than the 100D?



They are removing the direct print button. ;D


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## Steve (Jan 17, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> And yet...not surprisingly, the SL1, T3i, and T3 are all outselling the D3200 and D3100 on Amazon - so maybe Nikon should be embarrassed? Pentax and Sony? LOL. Judging by their sales rankings, consumers don't find them interesting at all. No Sony cameras in Amazon's Top 30 dSLRs. Speaking of 'dated', there is a Pentax at #29...but it's not the 'considerably better' K500, but rather the K-1000...I guess it's a good thing you can buy the film (!) for it on Amazon, too.



The "bigger marketshare = better than" argument is pretty lame. Marketshare often has very little to do with quality of product and more to do with market manipulation, advertising and just plain inertia. People buy more Canon cameras because there are more Canon cameras out there. People buying into a system are generally going to go with the system their friends are using, which is likely to be the one that has the largest marketshare already. I bought Canon gear when I was first starting out because it was what I saw the most of on the used markets like Craigslist and eBay.

Seriously, anytime you feel like hauling out the "but Canon sells more!" argument ask yourself if Budweiser really is the best beer in America.


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## 100 (Jan 17, 2014)

Steve said:


> People buy more Canon cameras because there are more Canon cameras out there. People buying into a system are generally going to go with the system their friends are using, which is likely to be the one that has the largest marketshare already.



Nokia should still be the number one in mobile phones, if that logic applies.


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## cellomaster27 (Jan 17, 2014)

Hey now! Let's not bash on the 100D! It's a good little camera, just like a rebel but smaller.  I can see canon offering something like a T4.. That would be neat. Really happy to see a CR3. Now I want to see the "unveiling" of new lenses!! Oh and thanks CR and the sources.


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## Quasimodo (Jan 17, 2014)

Seriously, anytime you feel like hauling out the "but Canon sells more!" argument ask yourself if Budweiser really is the best beer in America.
[/quote]

LOL, quite funny 

But both arguments have merit (the market is the judge of quality, vs. the market is duped and settled by other factors than quality). 

Quality is a iffy term (a lens level of sharpness has generally been THE most important factor, judging by the discussions in this forum, - that is untill the Siggy 35/1.4 Art lens came out. Then there was a substantial amount that argued that lens sharpness was not that important, and that the REALLY important thing was Bokeh  ). 

The problem is that there are no fixed objective parametres on quality, but mostly social conventions (socially constructed agreements). Looking at the history of innovation, one might argue (Like Latour and Aldrich have done in their excellent articles), that the history of innovation has little to do with the survival of the objective best products, but is rather a product of who manages to maximize networks and their inherent power. 

Edit: All blind tests I have seen of beer, wine and the like show that consumers are unable to differntiate brands and types on a sensoric level. The University of Oslo, Norway conducted a test on people who had answered that they cared much about and used a lot of money on wine. The added colour to white wine, and almost none were able to see that this was actually not white wine


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## Steve (Jan 17, 2014)

100 said:


> Nokia should still be the number one in mobile phones, if that logic applies.



Its not an Irrefutable Law of Markets, its a generality. Things do shift but it's pretty tough to overcome the inertia of an overwhelming marketshare unless the big company fails big (like Nokia) or another company comes up with something that changes the market significantly (like Apple).


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## Woody (Jan 17, 2014)

Steve said:


> Its not an Irrefutable Law of Markets, its a generality. Things do shift but it's pretty tough to overcome the inertia of an overwhelming marketshare unless the big company fails big (like Nokia) or another company comes up with something that changes the market significantly (like Apple).



So, following your logic above, Canon has not failed big and the competition has not put up SIGNIFICANTLY game-changing products. Ya?


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## TrabimanUK (Jan 17, 2014)

Will it be available in white?


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## greger (Jan 17, 2014)

Doesn't Canon release a new Rebel annually in March? This year it could be early. After August is when 40D and 7D were
announced and released so this year 7D ll could be released in 4th quarter. I think canon rumors and other sites where
Canon users keep up demand for 7D ll has prompted Canon to develop such a camera as it is pretty well pre-sold by the
pent up demand for it. If it is better than the 7D is now the new version will sell for years to come.
Maybe 2014 is the year of the 100-400 ll.


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## Ricku (Jan 17, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> "It was also confirmed that “a lot” of lenses were coming this year" - my source has confirmed one of these lenses will be 16-35 III. IQ is Better than Nikorrr 14-24 f2.8 ;D


Are you serious or just messing with us?  If serious, how trustworthy is your source?

I'd love a tack sharp 16-35 III.


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## tron (Jan 17, 2014)

TrabimanUK said:


> Will it be available in white?


That will count as two DSLRs ;D


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## TrabimanUK (Jan 17, 2014)

tron said:


> TrabimanUK said:
> 
> 
> > Will it be available in white?
> ...



Buy jove, I think you could be onto something there! They said the 7D upgrade wouldn't be called the 7DII - maybe, just maybe it'll be the 7DW - the white edition. No need for messy technical upgrade stuff, just a nice, pristine white body. That will show Nikon!


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## Pitbullo (Jan 17, 2014)

Woody said:


> KyleSTL said:
> 
> 
> > I'm not sure how they would differentiate a 1200D from the 100D, 550D, 600D, 650D, 700D, 60D or 7D that all contain 18MP sensors.
> ...



Perhaps it even gets the program knob from the 700D that turns 360 degrees!! woow!!
;D


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## Don Haines (Jan 17, 2014)

Steve said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > And yet...not surprisingly, the SL1, T3i, and T3 are all outselling the D3200 and D3100 on Amazon - so maybe Nikon should be embarrassed? Pentax and Sony? LOL. Judging by their sales rankings, consumers don't find them interesting at all. No Sony cameras in Amazon's Top 30 dSLRs. Speaking of 'dated', there is a Pentax at #29...but it's not the 'considerably better' K500, but rather the K-1000...I guess it's a good thing you can buy the film (!) for it on Amazon, too.
> ...


VHS and beta....


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## Canon1 (Jan 17, 2014)

distant.star said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > dufflover said:
> ...



Just some pent up long term desire probably. Many people have been lusting for a new 7D. What better marketing could canon ask for. This thing has had a cult following for years and hasn't even been announced yet! (Despite people threatening to jump ship due to lack of innovation and product release.... it hasn''t happened. Doubt canon is worried about waiting TOO long.) 

Who knows... when it is actually released... Maybe they will sell a few. ;-)


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## Rick (Jan 17, 2014)

Sorry Canon, you waited too long to bring it out if the mysterious 3rd camera is a high resolution cam. I bought a D800E instead that fulfills my needs in that arena quite joyously. Besides, I am not real confident you've been able to address the DR issue in low ISO ranges. And even if I were still in the market for such a camera, it would be a boondoggle of epic proportions to put it inside a 1D body, if the rumors are correct, just so that you can fleece the flock.

I am still in the market for some decent high quality EF lenses (L or otherwise), but the 3rd party folks, Zeiss and Sigma in particular, are upping their games so I'm not going to buy into any incremental upgrades. The 16-35 III will have to be a wider version of the 24-70 II. I don't give a [email protected] what it costs, just get it done.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 17, 2014)

Steve said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > And yet...not surprisingly, the SL1, T3i, and T3 are all outselling the D3200 and D3100 on Amazon - so maybe Nikon should be embarrassed? Pentax and Sony? LOL. Judging by their sales rankings, consumers don't find them interesting at all. No Sony cameras in Amazon's Top 30 dSLRs. Speaking of 'dated', there is a Pentax at #29...but it's not the 'considerably better' K500, but rather the K-1000...I guess it's a good thing you can buy the film (!) for it on Amazon, too.
> ...



I didn't say 'technically superior', did I? In the case of the T3, it's most likely 'cheaper than.' And with apologies to any Bud drinkers out there, I prefer beers I can't see through.

But the point of the argument isn't which camera or beer you or I think is better, it's which camera or beer _the majority of people_ choose for themselves. Look around your house - how many things do you see that, when you bought them, you thought 'this isn't the best product for me, but I'm going to buy it anyway'? Something may be better for you because it's cheaper, because your friends have one so you can ask them about it, because it has some feature that you particularly want, because it was available at the store you were shopping in, or a myriad of other reasons...but I'd argue the vast majority of time, when people make buying choices for non-necessary items, they're choosing what they believe is best _for them_. 

"Best" is arbitrary and highly subjective...we define it for ourselves based on our own needs. "Most popular based on sales volume" is objective, and happens because a majority of those subjectively defining 'best for them' as that particular brand. In the case of beer, that's Budweiser...and for dSLRs, that's Canon.


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## fox40phil (Jan 17, 2014)

booring news  :-X ...


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## Azathoth (Jan 17, 2014)

Just release a 12MP sensor with very good low light performance (clean images at ISO6400) and 100d body and i'm sold. Put 2 fps and no video and I can live with that.


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## CanNotYet (Jan 17, 2014)

Actually, keeping it 12.2 MP (or 15 as the 50D) and putting it into a SL1 body (available in 10 colors) would probably sell like hot cakes. Remove the touch screen for making it cheaper. Or keep it, to sell more, but cutting into SL1 sales.


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## DanielW (Jan 17, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Steve said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...



Neuro, do you know if it is possible to obtain from Amazon, or from some other store, relative selling numbers? I assume retailers will not tell us how many cameras they sold last year, but maybe we can get them to tell us proportions (e.g., three 5D3 for every D800).
Maybe that lovely lady from Adorama (unfortunately I forgot her name) can tell us something like that.
I guess we could then have a better idea about market share.
Cheers,
Daniel


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## DanielW (Jan 17, 2014)

Canon Rumors said:


> There was no mention of what the third one would be, as that could still be under tight wrap in Japan.



Maybe the third camera is a new 6D with improved AF system? 19-point AF, all cross-type?
That would justify seeing so many rebates for the 6D lately.
Daniel


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## Sanaraken (Jan 17, 2014)

DanielW said:


> Canon Rumors said:
> 
> 
> > There was no mention of what the third one would be, as that could still be under tight wrap in Japan.
> ...



If thats happens. I would be buying a 6DII as a second body instead of another 5DIII.


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## tron (Jan 17, 2014)

Sanaraken said:


> DanielW said:
> 
> 
> > Canon Rumors said:
> ...


Wishful thinking... 8)


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## Quasimodo (Jan 17, 2014)

Ricku said:


> Dylan777 said:
> 
> 
> > "It was also confirmed that “a lot” of lenses were coming this year" - my source has confirmed one of these lenses will be 16-35 III. IQ is Better than Nikorrr 14-24 f2.8 ;D
> ...



I might be out of tune, but I am quite happy with my 16-35II


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## HurtinMinorKey (Jan 17, 2014)

Below the 100D? You mean the market segment that doesn't exist because it's IQ is indistinguishable from iPhones? Get a clue Canon.


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## Woody (Jan 17, 2014)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> Below the 100D? You mean the market segment that doesn't exist because it's IQ is indistinguishable from iPhones? Get a clue Canon.



You mean the iPhone produces the same image quality as the T3/1100D 12 MP APS-C sensor? Get a clue HurtinMinorKey.


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## Eldar (Jan 17, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Steve said:
> 
> 
> > neuroanatomist said:
> ...


To support Neuro´s point; Even though we are the enthusiastic community, looking for improvements and quantum leaps within the areas that matters the most to us, we have to accept that Canon is a business. Like Zappa & The Mothers, they´re only in it for the money.
In a commercial business as this, it is a combination of technology, branding, marketing, happy customers, volume and profitability. And the combination of these is what Canon does better than the others. I would have been an even happier man if they were a couple of snaps worse on marketing, so they had to be a couple of snaps better on technology (read sensor), but at the same time, no other supplier can provide what I have. 
But a 7DII, to complement my 1DX for wildlife and birds, with improved AF, better high ISO performance, better DR and ... shit I´m dreaming again ...


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## GmwDarkroom (Jan 17, 2014)

Steve said:


> Seriously, anytime you feel like hauling out the "but Canon sells more!" argument ask yourself if Budweiser really is the best beer in America.


This is not a valid analogy. If Budweiser were $8-$10 a six pack instead of $8-$10 a case -- or whatever it costs -- the analogy would be valid. In the case of the Nikon and Canon entry bodies, the pricing is close enough to not matter. If the D3200 was $800 or more, I'd agree with your statement. But if Bud were $8 a six pack, nobody would buy it.

Now when Neuro says that Canon is leading because Rebels outsell the D3x, you'll have a valid argument.


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## HurtinMinorKey (Jan 17, 2014)

Woody said:


> HurtinMinorKey said:
> 
> 
> > Below the 100D? You mean the market segment that doesn't exist because it's IQ is indistinguishable from iPhones? Get a clue Canon.
> ...



In the hands of the people who would actually buy something on par with the T3, yes. Also, the iphone has vastly superior video. 

This just seems like an attempt to kill off the EOS M (also done in by smartphone competition), and replace it with something that has a traditional mount.


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## neuroanatomist (Jan 17, 2014)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> Woody said:
> 
> 
> > HurtinMinorKey said:
> ...



That's a nice sweeping generalization, and of course it makes perfect sense, because all those people with great artistic vision and technical photographic skills can easily afford a 5DIII. Plus, all those moms and dads with new babies are just oozing with disposable income, it's not like babies are expensive or anything...

Good luck finding that clue!


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## hgraf (Jan 17, 2014)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> Woody said:
> 
> 
> > HurtinMinorKey said:
> ...



I'm always surprised by how detached some people on here become from the "common" market, where entry level is king.

I started with the equivalent of the T3 (The Rebel XS/1000D). And yes, it was VERY entry level, but you know what? I learned alot from that camera, it STILL takes great pictures (with the right glass), and I'm sorry, but even the absolute cheapest SLR with the crappiest kit lens takes images FAR BEYOND what an iphone does. I still use my XS for time lapses and just a "throw it in the back seat" sort of camera.

Don't get me know, I LOVE the fact that pretty much everybody has a camera in their pocket now. From getting news as it actually happens, to civil liberties, to just plain fun it has been a wonderful revolution.

But to say that the "average" person with an iphone wouldn't get better IQ from an entry level DSLR is simply ludicrous.

As for video, wiki shows the T3 is capable of 720p video. While not 1080p, that's actually pretty good (alot of people shoot 720p anyways to get the 60fps framerate for flexibility in post to slow video down). 

Is the fact that the T3 does "only" 720p while the iPhone does 1080p the reason you label the iPhone's video capabilities as "vastly superior"? If so, that's a load of rubbish. 1080p video off a cell phone is so massively compressed it's NOWHERE near as good as what you get from even an entry level DSLR. I've seen the 1080p video out of an iPhone. It's good, but it's blown away from the 720p and 1080p I get from my DSLRs (and even P&Ss). And that's in good light. Drop the light and any smartphone's video will be a mess of compression artefacts and digital noise from having such a small sensor.

Finally, as a reminder: not everybody has $3000+ for a DSLR. And I'm sorry, for the VAST majority of images even seasoned photographers take the T3 would "work" well enough. The quality of image you get from even an entry level APS-C camera these days is astonishing.

TTYL


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## KyleSTL (Jan 17, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> KyleSTL said:
> 
> 
> > Not surprising. The specifications of the 1100D are embarrassing compared to the D3300 (and the D3200 and D3100 that preceded it). The Pentax K500 and all the Sony offerings are considerably better in every aspect as well. With the exception of the 100D (size) and 70D (dual pixel AF), Canon's crop offering are pretty dated and uninteresting.
> ...


As a business, I agree with you 100% - Sony, Pentax and Nikon are definitely lack-luster.

As a [well-informed] consumer, I would never buy a current entry-level DSLR from Canon, or recommend them to a friend or family member due to the lack of competitive specifications - even though I think Canon is a superior system overall. That's saying something.


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## HurtinMinorKey (Jan 17, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> That's a nice sweeping generalization, and of course it makes perfect sense, because all those people with great artistic vision and technical photographic skills can easily afford a 5DIII. Plus, all those moms and dads with new babies are just oozing with disposable income, it's not like babies are expensive or anything...
> 
> Good luck finding that clue!



No, most people in that position will get an iphone to save money, get almost as good a camera, and better video. 

Above the t3, below the 100D we're talking ~$400. If you really want IQ then you'll jump up to 70D (or 100D) for less than $100 more.

Do i need go give you a lesson about marginal utility?


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## HurtinMinorKey (Jan 17, 2014)

hgraf said:


> Is the fact that the T3 does "only" 720p while the iPhone does 1080p the reason you label the iPhone's video capabilities as "vastly superior"? If so, that's a load of rubbish. 1080p video off a cell phone is so massively compressed it's NOWHERE near as good as what you get from even an entry level DSLR. I've seen the 1080p video out of an iPhone. It's good, but it's blown away from the 720p and 1080p I get from my DSLRs (and even P&Ss). And that's in good light. Drop the light and any smartphone's video will be a mess of compression artefacts and digital noise from having such a small sensor.



The iphone has a much more capable processor inside of it, which is why it does higher frame rates than the 100D, let alone t3. Apple also doesn't to worry about nerfing the IQ in order to maintain product differentiation. 

http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/rebel-sl1.htm

To sum up, iPhone has better screen, better audio, and better at handling low light noise. And I'm pretty sure that was comparing to iPhone 5. 

For the record. I'm not an Apple fan at all. I have a windows phone!


----------



## DanielW (Jan 17, 2014)

This one has become a quite amusing thread to read.
(Goes buy some more popcorn.)


----------



## hgraf (Jan 17, 2014)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> hgraf said:
> 
> 
> > Is the fact that the T3 does "only" 720p while the iPhone does 1080p the reason you label the iPhone's video capabilities as "vastly superior"? If so, that's a load of rubbish. 1080p video off a cell phone is so massively compressed it's NOWHERE near as good as what you get from even an entry level DSLR. I've seen the 1080p video out of an iPhone. It's good, but it's blown away from the 720p and 1080p I get from my DSLRs (and even P&Ss). And that's in good light. Drop the light and any smartphone's video will be a mess of compression artefacts and digital noise from having such a small sensor.
> ...



OMG, you are using a Ken Rockwell review as basis for your argument? 

I think you should do a few Google searches on your source, you may find the term "entertainment value" show up.

As for the comment "better at handling low light noise", you're kidding, right? Have you SEEN the noise that a small sensor like in the iPhone produces as ISO's above base? I have, there is no comparison. An iPhone type sensor, while really good for what it is, has noise levels at ISO400 that you don't see until 6400 on a Canon APS-C sensor. I know this, since I've actually compared it.

I think you should do a little more research and have sources a little more reliable before continuing to comment.


----------



## DanielW (Jan 17, 2014)

FOR SALE

Canon 60D with ca. 20,000 actuations
Three batteries
Kit lens 18-135 mm
Canon EF-s 17-55/2.8 lens
Canon EF 50/1.4 lens
Canon Speedlite 430 EXII
Manfrotto tripod
6x 16 GB SD cards
Bag
Filters
Hoods

$3,000
OR
WILL TRADE FOR AN IPHONE

555-OHWELL


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 17, 2014)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> No, most people in that position will get an iphone to save money, get almost as good a camera, and better video.
> 
> Do i need go give you a lesson about marginal utility?



I rahter suspect most people currently buying an entry level dSLR already have a camera phone (and in the US, odds are it's a smartphone with a decent camera), and are buying a dSLR because the camera phone isn't meeting their needs.

Do you a lesson on the effect of sensor size on image quality? Maybe I'll let Phil Schiller school you…







iPhone 5s has 'bigger and better' pixels that are 1.5 µm in size. The T3 has 'biggerer and betterer' pixels that are ~3.5 times larger, in a sensor with an 18 times larger area. Bigger sensor = better picture.

Sure, you can use a good processor and apply gobs of noise reduction. Unfortunately, it isn't free - it comes at the expense of lost detail. 

Darn, those clues are so bloody elusive…I see you still haven't found one yet. Keep looking...


----------



## ajfotofilmagem (Jan 17, 2014)

Azathoth said:


> Just release a 12MP sensor with very good low light performance (clean images at ISO6400) and 100d body and i'm sold. Put 2 fps and no video and I can live with that.


I agree with your idea, but I know we are a minority. :-X I'd buy several units 12 megapixel camera with clean image at ISO 6400 and priced around $ 600. : The problem is that this hypothetical camera could steal sales of more expensive models, and Canon not want to decrease their profits. :-\


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 17, 2014)

DanielW said:


> 555-OHWELL



Shouldn't that be 555-ROCKWELL?


----------



## DanielW (Jan 17, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> DanielW said:
> 
> 
> > 555-OHWELL
> ...



;D ;D ;D


----------



## jiphoto (Jan 17, 2014)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> Azathoth said:
> 
> 
> > Just release a 12MP sensor with very good low light performance (clean images at ISO6400) and 100d body and i'm sold. Put 2 fps and no video and I can live with that.
> ...


That's more or less what Nikon did with their Df, except that they had delusions of becoming another Leica, and priced it far beyond its feature set. Now, I'm not a fan of Nikon at all, but just imagine what they could've done with the market segment that's not interested in video if they'd just priced the Df at about $800-1200! I'm sure a lot of us would suddenly forget our hatred of Nikon. It's like a full-frame, SL1-sized 6D equivalent. Trouble is, the D4's sensor is in the Df, which gives us some idea of which sensor Canon would have to use in a body like you're describing. It'd be the 1DX, 5D3, or 6D sensor, and we all know how expensive that would be. Then we'd have complaints (from all the people who aren't going to buy it anyway) about just recycling another sensor in a crippled camera. Believe me, I'd definitely buy a 12MP camera with clean ISO 6400 (I'd want video, but nothing fancy like 1080p60 or something). However, Canon's not going to cannibalize their 6D, and to some extent, the 5D3, so it's not going to happen .


----------



## MiG31_Foxhound (Jan 17, 2014)

hgraf said:


> I'm always surprised by how detached some people on here become from the "common" market, where entry level is king.
> 
> ...
> 
> ...



Registered (long overdue) just to agree with this sentiment. My mother loves photography. I was pleasantly surprised when she (nearly 70, by the way, but highly technologically-inclined for her age) noticed a vast gulf in quality between what her P&S (stand-in for "phone" in this context) produced at my graduation, and the shots taken with my T1i + 17-55/2.8 IS. Within about a month or so, she had bought herself a T3. Now, she checks in with me before she goes on vacation and borrows either my 70-200/4L IS or 24-105/4L IS. 

I know not everyone has access to L-series optics, but the point is that the bodies are very capable, regardless of what optics are mounted to them. Speaking of vacations, I was in Walt Disney World about a month ago and you would not _believe_ the amount of xxxD bodies I saw. Every time I hear esoteric tirades about declining SLR sales, I chuckle on the inside. Go to a motor race, or a high-end resort, or an airshow and keep an eye out for what's around peoples' necks and you'll very quickly understand why Canon's SLR range is so bottom-heavy. There's an enormous market out there composed of people who just "want better images" and Canon (not to mention Nikon, et al. - I'm just a Canon-user) gives them plenty of choices.


----------



## HurtinMinorKey (Jan 17, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> I rahter suspect most people currently buying an entry level dSLR already have a camera phone (and in the US, odds are it's a smartphone with a decent camera), and are buying a dSLR because the camera phone isn't meeting their needs.
> 
> Do you a lesson on the effect of sensor size on image quality? Maybe I'll let Phil Schiller school you…
> 
> ...



Pay attention dude, we were talking about video. And how you downsample/process your pixels can have a dramatic effect on IQ. The iphone is just better at that. 

I never claimed it had better low light performance in stills. 

Also, the market segment you describe must be huge, of young couples with children (as you mentioned earlier) who have iphones, are tight on money, but can afford to throw away 400$ on a marginally better imaging device. :

You should apply for a job at Canon. 

The point is, there isn't a profitable niche in IQ BETWEEN the iPhone (or comparable) and 100D @~$400. I'll further remind you that that's also where the Nikon 1 and Canon M live (in terms of price). 

So either they release a product that cannibalizes the sales of the 100D because it's effectively just as good for less money, or they make it noticeably worse and it fails because that means it's no better than its price competitive alternatives(above phones or mirrorless cams).


----------



## Ricku (Jan 17, 2014)

Quasimodo said:


> Ricku said:
> 
> 
> > Dylan777 said:
> ...


It is a fine lens for PJ-work, but I am quite unhappy with borderline piss-poor corners.


----------



## jimenezphoto (Jan 17, 2014)

YES!!!!!!!!!! Thank you Canon. Yet another Rebel.


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 17, 2014)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> Pay attention dude, we were talking about video.



Were we, dude? Only video?




HurtinMinorKey said:


> No, most people in that position will get an iphone to save money, *get almost as good a camera*, and better video.



No, it seems we were talking about cameras _and_ video. The iPhone camera is in no way 'almost as good' as a T3. 

As for less noise in video, if your evidence for that is a post by Ken Rockwell, perhaps you can also provide some evidence for the honesty of politicians by citing Richard Nixon's memiors. 




HurtinMinorKey said:


> You should apply for a job at Canon.
> 
> The point is, there isn't a profitable niche in IQ BETWEEN the iPhone (or comparable) and 100D @~$400.



Clearly you should not, dude. If Canon does release a body that comes in under the 100D in the lineup, it will be because they are pretty damn sure there's a profitable market for it. But I'm sure that you know Canon's customer base better far better than they do, it's not like they sell many cameras or anything like that. :


----------



## slclick (Jan 17, 2014)

Now where did I put that popcorn popper?


----------



## HurtinMinorKey (Jan 17, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> Were we, dude? Only video?



Yes, the person i was responding when you took my quote out of context was talking about video. Stop being lazy and read the chain of responses before you respond out of context. 



neuroanatomist said:


> Clearly you should not, dude. If Canon does release a body that comes in under the 100D in the lineup, it will be because they are pretty damn sure there's a profitable market for it. But I'm sure that you know Canon's customer base better far better than they do, it's not like they sell many cameras or anything like that. :



Yes, canon really has their thumb on the pulse of this end of the market. Like how they cut the price of the EOS M from $800 to $350 in the span of a year. 

I'm sure that was their plan all along.


----------



## jiphoto (Jan 17, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> HurtinMinorKey said:
> 
> 
> > Pay attention dude, we were talking about video.
> ...




I'm going to try thinking like Canon's financial and marketing departments... here goes. Let's say that a reasonably priced ($250 or less) P&S camera has roughly the same quality (at the wide end of its zoom) as modern smartphones (not just the iPhone). Maybe not always true, but bear with me. Since the P&S market is declining, P&S cameras are probably seen as comparable to the phone you already have. If Canon is good at making money, which is already proven to be true, the smartest thing they could possibly do with this declining P&S market is release a dSLR that's close to a high-end P&S price. Well, they already did that with the 100D, so what's the next step? Make a cheaper version that still makes the people who wouldn't pick up a P&S "because their iPhone's camera is almost as good" think that it's worth buying. Those of us who are already in the Canon ecosystem complain about Canon releasing a cheaper 100D instead of upgrading something we want. Canon doesn't care, because when the consumer with a smartphone looks a little higher than what they'd spend on a P&S and sees a dSLR, they'll think "it looks professional, so it must take better pictures", and they buy it. Canon has just performed a little upsell, and gotten more money from that consumer than they would have spent on a P&S.


----------



## Azathoth (Jan 17, 2014)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> The iphone has a much more capable processor inside of it, which is why it does higher frame rates than the 100D, let alone t3. Apple also doesn't to worry about nerfing the IQ in order to maintain product differentiation.
> 
> http://www.kenrockwell.com/canon/rebel-sl1.htm
> 
> ...



 :

Btw where's that quote in that webpage? Yeah right, not an Apple fan at all...


----------



## xps (Jan 17, 2014)

jiphoto said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > HurtinMinorKey said:
> ...



+1 

The same thing happens in many electronic branches every day. Just think of e.g graphic cards,... A new name, new design, one new feature.... and many of us want to own it....
Canon´s market specialist know exactly, which product will have a high potential to become an cash cow.
And if the time is right to serve an special market, they will release something that satisfies those customers


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 17, 2014)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> Stop being lazy and read the chain of responses before you respond out of context.



I read them, you are simply incorrect...including about video.



HurtinMinorKey said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Clearly you should not, dude. If Canon does release a body that comes in under the 100D in the lineup, it will be because they are pretty damn sure there's a profitable market for it. But I'm sure that you know Canon's customer base better far better than they do, it's not like they sell many cameras or anything like that. :
> ...



Speaking of taking things out of context, why are you fixating on their sole entry in the mirrorless market in the US? The SL1 is selling very well, as is the T3 - both are in the top five on Amazon's sales rank. So, you're saying that combining the small physical size of the SL1 with the price of the T3 would obviously be stupid move...and that proves just how much smarter you are compared to Canon? Right. :


----------



## HurtinMinorKey (Jan 17, 2014)

jiphoto said:


> Well, they already did that with the 100D, so what's the next step? Make a cheaper version that still makes the people who wouldn't pick up a P&S "because their iPhone's camera is almost as good" think that it's worth buying. Those of us who are already in the Canon ecosystem complain about Canon releasing a cheaper 100D instead of upgrading something we want. Canon doesn't care, because when the consumer with a smartphone looks a little higher than what they'd spend on a P&S and sees a dSLR, they'll think "it looks professional, so it must take better pictures", and they buy it. Canon has just performed a little upsell, and gotten more money from that consumer than they would have spent on a P&S.



I think you are correct in that this is what they are thinking. But I also think that if they try this, they will undercut the sales of the 100D, or if the quality is appreciably worse, fail to sell completely.

But maybe they don't care. Maybe they figure that if they can get more people into EF-S lenses, they should make the cheapest entry point possible.


----------



## 9VIII (Jan 17, 2014)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> Woody said:
> 
> 
> > HurtinMinorKey said:
> ...



I have both the T3 and 5D2, for anything other than landscapes and low-light I prefer the T3.

For size and convenience, the T3 is amazing.

When I took my first picture with the T3 in 2012 (previously using a SD780IS), I forgot to focus the image, and it looked better than anything I had seen come out of a camera to that point.


----------



## Hannes (Jan 17, 2014)

about time, nikon's bottom end has been so much more appealing for the last few years compared to the 1100D


----------



## Sporgon (Jan 17, 2014)

Reading the comments about an iPhone and 1100D being remotely comparable are quite pitiful. The 1100D (t3) is actually a mighty fine camera, albeit not necessarily an aesthetically pleasing one; it can do 99% of all functions that the majority of people want from their DSLR. It has virtually every control that a serious photographer might wish for with the exception of specialist features. Within the Building Panoramics 'family' we have four of them now, property of various children and wives. 

The t3 is by far the best value Canon DSLR. My partner wanted to get a small Rebel as a 'holiday' camera. I told him if he was going to get a Rebel he should get the basic one, but no, being himself he had to get TOTR: the 650D at the time. Within six months it was sold and he now uses his daughter's 1100D for holiday fun.


----------



## HurtinMinorKey (Jan 17, 2014)

neuroanatomist said:


> So, you're saying that combining the small physical size of the SL1 with the price of the T3 would obviously be stupid move...and that proves just how much smarter you are compared to Canon? Right. :



And how would this not cannibalize the SL1 sales? You might as well just cut the price if the SL1. 

And so you think Canon has been killing it?

goo.gl/Zhb4PT

^S&P 500 vs Canon over past yr.


----------



## HurtinMinorKey (Jan 17, 2014)

9VIII said:


> I have both the T3 and 5D2, for anything other than landscapes and low-light I prefer the T3.
> 
> For size and convenience, the T3 is amazing.
> 
> When I took my first picture with the T3 in 2012 (previously using a SD780IS), I forgot to focus the image, and it looked better than anything I had seen come out of a camera to that point.



By the same token, i bet there are a lot of people would say the same thing about the iphone vs. the T3: "For size and convenience, the (5S) is amazing."


----------



## ajfotofilmagem (Jan 17, 2014)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> 9VIII said:
> 
> 
> > I have both the T3 and 5D2, for anything other than landscapes and low-light I prefer the T3.
> ...


The choice of camera or camera phone is simpler than it may seem. Considering the same price range the choices are: 

People who prioritize portability, think that it is enough to a good phone. 

People who prioritize image quality, choose cameras with large sensor. 

People who prioritize versatility, choose superzoom cameras.


----------



## Don Haines (Jan 17, 2014)

When you consider that the vast bulk of Canon's camera sales are entry level, plus there are at least one new model per year, it would be far more surprising if they did not introduce an introductory model....


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 17, 2014)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> And how would this not cannibalize the SL1 sales? You might as well just cut the price if the SL1.



Cannibalization? In any given hundred dollar price bracket, Canon has 5-8 point and shoot cameras, 5-8 camcorders, 5-8 printers, etc. 

The price of the SL1 _will_ drop. That's normal, because it's now last year's camera. Just like there is a T5i and a T3, there can be an SL1 and a cheaper version. 



HurtinMinorKey said:


> S&P 500 vs Canon over past yr.



Do dSLRs represent the sole or even major category of Canon's revenue? Or could it just maybe, possibly be that there are other factors that influence their stock price?


----------



## skfla (Jan 17, 2014)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> hgraf said:
> 
> 
> > Is the fact that the T3 does "only" 720p while the iPhone does 1080p the reason you label the iPhone's video capabilities as "vastly superior"? If so, that's a load of rubbish. 1080p video off a cell phone is so massively compressed it's NOWHERE near as good as what you get from even an entry level DSLR. I've seen the 1080p video out of an iPhone. It's good, but it's blown away from the 720p and 1080p I get from my DSLRs (and even P&Ss). And that's in good light. Drop the light and any smartphone's video will be a mess of compression artefacts and digital noise from having such a small sensor.
> ...



HurtinMinorKey, Don't let them drive you off! More iPhone-itis quotes (either still or video quotes are just fine), please. & please, please, PLEASE keep quoting Ken Rockwell! (ur not Ken, using another handle, r u??) 

& I thought being stuck at home on a Friday night was going to be boring....


----------



## Don Haines (Jan 17, 2014)

skfla said:


> HurtinMinorKey said:
> 
> 
> > hgraf said:
> ...


and might I add that if you are sitting in a bar enjoying fish and chips, and a beer (Neuro, it's a Guinness... you can't see through it  ) you can't use your T3 to talk on this forum....

I give the iPhones/pods/pads great marks for convenience, and for the size of the camera it's amazing... but if you want to take anything other than wide angle pictures with it you suffer...


----------



## neuroanatomist (Jan 18, 2014)

Don Haines said:


> and might I add that if you are sitting in a bar enjoying fish and chips, and a beer (Neuro, it's a Guinness... you can't see through it  ) you can't use your T3 to talk on this forum....



Guinness is good. I really like Sam Smith's Imperial Stout - if you set the bottles side by side, they look the same color, but when you during them, you realize that while the Guinness bottle is a deep brown glass, the Sam Smith's is clear. The stout is just that dark. 



Don Haines said:


> I give the iPhones/pods/pads great marks for convenience, and for the size of the camera it's amazing... but if you want to take anything other than wide angle pictures with it you suffer...



This might be what suffering looks like.


----------



## ajfotofilmagem (Jan 18, 2014)

Each specific use, requests a specific tool. Let's assume that I have to hire a team (each with their equipment) to make a video with 10 cameras alike, while on a tight budget. It would be impractical to use 10 units 5D mark iii, but it is perfectly possible to achieve 10 units Rebel T3. If one of 10 people to get to work with an iPhone, I command him to stick the iPhone in...   ;D That's why I prefer 720P video with image compression and decent lens, rather than 1080P with compression and noise reduction of gross. :


----------



## skfla (Jan 18, 2014)

HurtinMinorKey??


----------



## Don Haines (Jan 18, 2014)

ajfotofilmagem said:


> Each specific use, requests a specific tool. Let's assume that I have to hire a team (each with their equipment) to make a video with 10 cameras alike, while on a tight budget. It would be impractical to use 10 units 5D mark iii, but it is perfectly possible to achieve 10 units Rebel T3. If one of 10 people to get to work with an iPhone, I command him to stick the iPhone in...   ;D That's why I prefer 720P video with image compression and decent lens, rather than 1080P with compression and noise reduction of gross. :



Got an iPhone, got a 60D.... the iPhone beats the 60D hands down for convenience shooting video. The 60D beats the iPhone hands down for image and sound quality.


----------



## jrista (Jan 18, 2014)

Don Haines said:


> When you consider that the vast bulk of Canon's camera sales are entry level, plus there are at least one new model per year, it would be far more surprising if they did not introduce an introductory model....



Canon, introducing the beginners introductory entry level DSLR model....can we multiply the notion that it is an "entry level" camera any further? :


----------



## CarlTN (Jan 18, 2014)

It is starting to become amusing, that there still needs to be a new introductory camera every 6 months. But the reason is pretty simple. The vast majority of people on the planet, do not consider themselves serious photographers (even though 99% of people on the planet, take pictures with something). Therefore, there is probably a fairly large segment of the Canon consumer base, who will just keep buying the newest Rebel, and never upgrade to a more serious camera. Why? Because they don't want to spend $1000 when they can do what they do (always in full auto mode as jpegs) for $500, with kit lens.


----------



## whothafunk (Jan 18, 2014)

in the last 2 months, CR posted so many 7DII rumours that i really dont give a shit anymore. 

- YES IT IS COMING
- NO IT IS NOT COMING
- IT WILL BE NAMED SOMETHING ELSE
- MAYBE YES, MAYBE NO
- DEFINITELY NOT COMING
- IT IS COMING


----------



## ewg963 (Jan 18, 2014)

Dylan777 said:


> "It was also confirmed that “a lot” of lenses were coming this year" - my source has confirmed one of these lenses will be 16-35 III. IQ is Better than Nikorrr 14-24 f2.8 ;D


 Now that perks my interest


----------



## ewg963 (Jan 18, 2014)

pj1974 said:


> _*Yes yes yes!!!*_ A CR3!!! That's what I've been waiting for.... and it feels so long. 8) Well... I hope the CR3 also applies to the news about the 7DmkII.....
> 
> Entry level = *relatively boring* (for me)... And I believe that if there is an 'entry level' update, it will likely be an update to the 1100D, likely being a 1200D. The specs of those cameras is fairly basic... I generally don't recommend people go for the xxxxD series of Canon, but rather go for the 'xxxD' / Rebel series. (I have a 350D, my first DSLR, and still use it as a backup). I think the 700D is decently spec’d and priced for what it is.
> 
> ...


 +1


----------



## ewg963 (Jan 18, 2014)

hgraf said:


> HurtinMinorKey said:
> 
> 
> > Woody said:
> ...


+1


----------



## HurtinMinorKey (Jan 18, 2014)

skfla said:


> HurtinMinorKey, Don't let them drive you off! More iPhone-itis quotes (either still or video quotes are just fine), please. & please, please, PLEASE keep quoting Ken Rockwell! (ur not Ken, using another handle, r u??)
> 
> & I thought being stuck at home on a Friday night was going to be boring....



I aim to please/entertain/enrage. One thing i've realized over the years on this forum: nothing gets you more responses of righteous indignation than citing Ken Rockwell. That make him a pretty powerful _tool_.


----------



## slclick (Jan 18, 2014)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> skfla said:
> 
> 
> > HurtinMinorKey, Don't let them drive you off! More iPhone-itis quotes (either still or video quotes are just fine), please. & please, please, PLEASE keep quoting Ken Rockwell! (ur not Ken, using another handle, r u??)
> ...



Oh please, you and Neuro didn't even get into a DR fight. Like a couple of schoolgirls.I expect better next time. (insert winking emoticon here)


----------



## KyleSTL (Jan 18, 2014)

HurtinMinorKey said:


> skfla said:
> 
> 
> > HurtinMinorKey, Don't let them drive you off! More iPhone-itis quotes (either still or video quotes are just fine), please. & please, please, PLEASE keep quoting Ken Rockwell! (ur not Ken, using another handle, r u??)
> ...



The question remains, though, do you still stand by your assertion that the iPhone [5S, I assume] produces better video than a 720p DSLR (the 1100D specifically)?


----------



## TeenTog (Jan 18, 2014)

A revamp of the T3 would be nice. The current version is pretty outdated and even if you're someone who knows what he/she's doing (like me) it can be...... difficult at times. which is why I'm saving for the 70D. But in my opinion every manufacturer needs a dirt cheap super entry level camera, as consumers will undoubtedly upgrade to more expensive models as they become unsatisfied with their current camera. So IMO the new entry level camera has a 99.99% chance of being something along the lines of a T4 or 1200D


----------



## JRPhotos (Jan 19, 2014)

What would be an estimate for later in the year for the 7DII?


----------



## tron (Jan 19, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> What would be an estimate for later in the year for the 7DII?


There is a CR3 that there will be another CRwhatever for a 7DII by the end of this year ;D


----------



## 9VIII (Jan 19, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> What would be an estimate for later in the year for the 7DII?



Canon does seem to like to launch things mid-year, but late in the season isn't unheard of either. I think it's equally likely that we'll see the MkII in summer as winter.


----------



## Ricku (Jan 19, 2014)

whothafunk said:


> in the last 2 months, CR posted so many 7DII rumours that i really dont give a S___ anymore.
> 
> - YES IT IS COMING
> - NO IT IS NOT COMING
> ...


Not CR-guy's fault that his sources are sh*t.

Things are so much easier for the owners of Nikonrumors and Sonyalpharumors.


----------



## tron (Jan 19, 2014)

Ricku said:


> whothafunk said:
> 
> 
> > in the last 2 months,* CR posted so many 7DII rumours that i really dont give a S___ anymore*.
> ...


That's OK new threads have to be created. Anyway we do not have to believe them or even bother to respond to post to these threads.


----------



## jrista (Jan 19, 2014)

Ricku said:


> whothafunk said:
> 
> 
> > in the last 2 months, CR posted so many 7DII rumours that i really dont give a S___ anymore.
> ...



CR guy also rates the rumors, too. Most of that was all CR1, so you had to take them all with a grain of salt. This is a CR3, so it's the closest thing to fact we have.


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## JRPhotos (Jan 19, 2014)

9VIII said:


> JRPhotos said:
> 
> 
> > What would be an estimate for later in the year for the 7DII?
> ...


I'm trying to decide if I should buy a lens that I've wanted for a few years (used Canon 100 Macro 2.8L IS). It'll cut my camera savings back a bit but should give more more time to save up for the 7DII. 

I wonder how much it'll cost.


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## BiscottiGelato (Jan 20, 2014)

I just want a SL1 with Wi-Fi. Any estimate on when a SL2 will be available?


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## Sanaraken (Jan 20, 2014)

JRPhotos said:


> 9VIII said:
> 
> 
> > JRPhotos said:
> ...



I would just wait a year or two for the 7DII price to go down. Just like the 5DIII. The 100L is a great lens. I got it during the holidays for $700 after rebate and cash back from Adorama.


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## CanNotYet (Jan 20, 2014)

I also like the t3/1100D. Things they could do to update it would be:

*Rubberize the grips! My main complaint with it is the slipperiness. 
*Wifi. No-brainer.
*Touch-screen (fixed, like the SL1)
*new sensor with the video AF (same as SL1?), although I would like a lower MP count (12-15 somewhere?).
The rest they can keep.

What WOULD be interesting is if the keep the EF-Mount, or go M.
An SL1 body with M-mount?
How is that for differentiation?


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## jiphoto (Jan 20, 2014)

CanNotYet said:


> I also like the t3/1100D. Things they could do to update it would be:
> 
> *Rubberize the grips! My main complaint with it is the slipperiness.
> *Wifi. No-brainer.
> ...


I would expect Canon to add WiFi and a touchscreen to the next xxxD or xxxxD camera, and the video AF should show up as well, although doubtful about the DPAF from the 70D - that looks like something that the marketing department would consider worth a price premium. However, the M mount is specifically designed for mirrorless, rendering a mirror and optical viewfinder physically impossible and necessitating an EVF, so I doubt that Canon will go that route. Since they don't have an M model with a form factor similar to the Panasonic G-series, I wouldn't be surprised if Canon goes that route; however, that would not qualify as a DSLR as described by the rumor.


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## CanNotYet (Jan 21, 2014)

jiphoto said:


> I would expect Canon to add WiFi and a touchscreen to the next xxxD or xxxxD camera, and the video AF should show up as well, although doubtful about the DPAF from the 70D - that looks like something that the marketing department would consider worth a price premium. However, the M mount is specifically designed for mirrorless, rendering a mirror and optical viewfinder physically impossible and necessitating an EVF, so I doubt that Canon will go that route. Since they don't have an M model with a form factor similar to the Panasonic G-series, I wouldn't be surprised if Canon goes that route; however, that would not qualify as a DSLR as described by the rumor.



Well, putting the MP count lower could pave way for DPAF on the sensor, if Canon wants to go over to only DPAF sensor systems. other variants would ofc be the 18MP without anything else (yes, that one).

Anyway, it is the flange distance/placement of mirror in between mount and sensor that is smaller, right? I guess for it to be DSLR, M is out. 

And, I agree that Canon will probably do a M-Mount, EVF version of the SL1, (MSL1? SLM?). I think such a move together with 2 additional M-lenses would start the M line sales up significantly, especially since I think that combo would sell great in the US. OM-D equivalent from Canon.  (Just PLEASE make the EVF state of the art!)


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## jiphoto (Jan 21, 2014)

CanNotYet said:


> jiphoto said:
> 
> 
> > I would expect Canon to add WiFi and a touchscreen to the next xxxD or xxxxD camera, and the video AF should show up as well, although doubtful about the DPAF from the 70D - that looks like something that the marketing department would consider worth a price premium. However, the M mount is specifically designed for mirrorless, rendering a mirror and optical viewfinder physically impossible and necessitating an EVF, so I doubt that Canon will go that route. Since they don't have an M model with a form factor similar to the Panasonic G-series, I wouldn't be surprised if Canon goes that route; however, that would not qualify as a DSLR as described by the rumor.
> ...


I agree that a potential lower-MP camera could assist DPAF, but there are two issues with this idea. First, the 70D has a 20MP sensor (obviously higher than the infamous 18MP dynasty), so that sensor could be reused in a Rebel. Given Canon's previous behavior with their 7D sensor spreading through the APS-C lineup like a cancer, it's pretty likely they'll do the same with the 20MP chip. 


Second, since Canon would be catering to the consumer crowd coming from the smartphone megapixel race, a newer camera having fewer MPs would not be a good idea. Canon had a hard enough time justifying the G-series' sudden megapixel drop between the G10 and G11, and even the professional community had a minor hissyfit over the 1DX's 18MPs compared to the 1Ds III's 21, so I'd bet on the 20MP sensor being used to show a 2MP increase in what the uninitiated consumer believes is "image quality." Remember Canon made a big deal over the SL1's imperceptibly improved 18MP sensor... the marketing department is strong with this one.


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