# Lexar taken over by Chinese firm Longsys



## Chaitanya (Sep 2, 2017)

Lexar has been acquired by chinese NAND maker. 
http://www.longsys.com/longsys-acquires-lexar-brand-a-leading-brand-for-high-performance-removable-storage-solutions/


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## AvTvM (Sep 2, 2017)

https://petapixel.com/2017/09/01/lexar-acquired-chinese-flash-storage-company/

so it will be Lexar label slapped onto Longsys flash cards from now on ... 

Remains to be seen which and what quality Lexar-branded products Longsys will offer ... and what aftersales service (like RMA handling etc.) ... and what product / pricing decisions they take. 

for SD cards i see little issue, since there are enough makers in the market, but for XQD users things may be a bit more iffy, as there are only 2 makers / brands currently offering them (at least where i live - EU): Sony and Lexar. 
Lexar 2933x cards (440/400 MB/s) currently are significantly lower priced than equal speed Sony G series XQD cards ... on Longsys website under products / memory cards / i only see SD and MicroSD cards (some branded as "Foresee" ... lol) but no XQD or CFast products. so possibly there will be only 1 supplier of XQD cards now: Sony! and Sony itself is not using XQD cards in their cameras at all (alpha series, invluding A9). only Nikon is ... D5, D500, D850 ... oO ;-)

so ... interesting times, maybe XQD will soon follow Sony Memory stick into oblivion. Canon appears to have been "not stupid" on this one ... although i dont like CFast either. i'd prefer standardization on Micro SD format and UHS III. more than fast enough for any sort of stills capture. and very small card slots, so Canon could easily put dual slots into an extremely compact full-frame sensor MILC ... wink, wink! )

luckily i am not immediately affected. dont need XQD cards and am happy with Sandisk flash cards and third party readers (esp. Transcend). and i dont and wont ever record video, 4k, 8k ... or rapid fire stills captures for longer than short bursts.


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## Talys (Sep 2, 2017)

Whoa, didn't see that coming.

I'm so glad that I Canon didn't move to XQD. USD $100 for a 64GB card is a bit crazy.


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## AvTvM (Sep 2, 2017)

well, CFast 2.0 cards are not cheap either. situation is pretty similar to XQD. other than lexar only Sandisk and Transcend are offering them. Transcend only lower speeds. plus 2 or 3 secondary brands/re-packagers (delock, angelbird, ...). 

will be interesting to see, whether Longsys is willing and able to offer XQD and/or CFast 2.0 cards with Lexar label ...

i dont really see the need for either. would prefer SD/MicroSD format only. further speed and capacity gains should be no major issue. sandisk just announced a 400 GB MicroSD card and speeds are ever improving as well. so i dont really see a need for XQD or CFast card formats. woild prefer 1 standard with as many makers as possible = best prices and least hassle for us buyers/users.


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## Antono Refa (Sep 2, 2017)

Talys said:


> Whoa, didn't see that coming.
> 
> I'm so glad that I Canon didn't move to XQD. USD $100 for a 64GB card is a bit crazy.



I expected it to be bought by another company for the brand name, intellectual property, know how, etc.

Manufacturing is moving east for decades, and there's sense in doing everything (from NANDs to slapping the sticker on) in one place.


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## Antono Refa (Sep 2, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> https://petapixel.com/2017/09/01/lexar-acquired-chinese-flash-storage-company/
> 
> so it will be Lexar label slapped onto Longsys flash cards from now on ...
> 
> ...



Price and backward compatibility will win, until it can't be stretched forward anymore.

Microsoft proved this. DEC had superior hardware and software, but Ken Olsen thought the company could charge a premium for it. Apple was innovative, but breaking backward compatibility twice, and turned the Mac into a niche market.

CF can't be stretched no more. CFast doesn't gather momentum, and CFexpress is already out, so I bet is it would die as well. CFexpress doesn't seem to gather momentum either.

My bet is that when the dust settles, SD UHS III will come on top, and XQD & CF[& descendants] will go the way of the Betamax.


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## RunAndGun (Sep 2, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> https://petapixel.com/2017/09/01/lexar-acquired-chinese-flash-storage-company/
> 
> so it will be Lexar label slapped onto Longsys flash cards from now on ...
> 
> ...



It really doesn't concern most on here, since this is a largely still photo oriented site, but Sony uses XQD in some of their professional video/Cine cameras. And while they may seem expensive on a "stills" level and compared to the Lexar offering(past tense?), Sony actually has them "set-up" as an extremely less expensive, fully compatible, alternative media(with adapter) to their much more expensive SxS cards for use in their F5 and F55 cameras and they are the native media for their Fs7/Fs7mkII. So instead of spending close to a $1K per 128GB SxS card for my F55 I spend just under $200 for an XQD and adapter. Very un-Sony, but hey, don't look a gift horse in the mouth.


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## iowapipe (Sep 2, 2017)

While the news is likely great for the brand, the buyer throws a yellow flag on my enthusiasm to stay with the product. State-run/approved companies (China, Koreas, Russia, ...) are under scrutiny for good reason. Not all are dirty, but not all are clean.
While I'm not overly concerned with what can be done to/gotten from my cameras: sticking a card into a computer is another story in this age of cyber security issues.

Having choices helps avoid some 'potential issues'. Time will tell.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 2, 2017)

Longsys is a company that has not had a public face in the US, but has been making components for OEM's, as well as ODM products. Obviously, they have a pile of money in order to swing a deal like this.

Like others, I will likely be a bit cautious, I've purchased mostly Lexar products in the past, and never had a failure. I expect that customer service will continue using lexar employees but probably in a new location.

With the huge demand for high end flash memory, Lexar is throwing everything into producing it and letting others duke it out in the competitive market foe SD cards.

The current forcast for flash memory says that even with new production coming on line, supplies will be tight thru 2018, which means high end SSD's will be expensive. No 2TB or greater SSD's for me. I would really want a 3 or 4TB to replace my current 4TB spinning drives that hold my data and photos. I use 500GB and 1TB as boot and program drives, which also hold the huge Lightroom database.


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## Talys (Sep 2, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> well, CFast 2.0 cards are not cheap either. situation is pretty similar to XQD. other than lexar only Sandisk and Transcend are offering them. Transcend only lower speeds. plus 2 or 3 secondary brands/re-packagers (delock, angelbird, ...).
> 
> will be interesting to see, whether Longsys is willing and able to offer XQD and/or CFast 2.0 cards with Lexar label ...
> 
> i dont really see the need for either. would prefer SD/MicroSD format only. further speed and capacity gains should be no major issue. sandisk just announced a 400 GB MicroSD card and speeds are ever improving as well. so i dont really see a need for XQD or CFast card formats. woild prefer 1 standard with as many makers as possible = best prices and least hassle for us buyers/users.



You can get an SD to CFast adapter, though, to give you a cheap out if you don't need that speed. I'm very happy with cheap SD, personally!


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## privatebydesign (Sep 2, 2017)

When I heard that Lexar was done with the small retail market it pushed me to get something I have been thinking of for a long time, the HR2 hub and four of the readers and the USB thing. I use CFast, CF card, SD cards and micro SD cards so it made sense and cleared up my desk, I got the USB thing to have somewhere easy and convenient to plug in thumb drives . But the performance boost moving to a thunderbolt workflow is mighty impressive, particularly the CFast card reader which has two ports on the back for USB3 and native thunderbolt.

Not a cheap option for multiple card reading but it does work really well. I didn't see any point to the optional HDD modules so didn't get any. 

Only complains so far, it is too light and easy to move when you pull a card out and the micro SD slots really should be a push to eject as they don't have much sticking out and are awkward to remove when finished with. But all in all a great idea and implementation that I highly recommend to anybody with thunderbolt ports who needs multiple card format use.


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## Chaitanya (Sep 2, 2017)

Antono Refa said:


> Talys said:
> 
> 
> > Whoa, didn't see that coming.
> ...



According to press release it seems like Longsys has only got hold of Lexar Brand Name and trademark and Micron might be holding on to IP generated from Lexar.


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## Antono Refa (Sep 2, 2017)

Chaitanya said:


> Antono Refa said:
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> 
> > Talys said:
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Indeed.

This sounds deceitful. People buy brand name for the innards, not the logo.


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## aceflibble (Sep 2, 2017)

Talys said:


> Whoa, didn't see that coming.
> 
> I'm so glad that I Canon didn't move to XQD. USD $100 for a 64GB card is a bit crazy.


People used to pay that for a 2GB CF card. And then they all threw hissy fits when SD got more popular and offered more space for less, because they'd 'invested' so much in CF. 

And Canon _will_ move to XQD. It's only a matter of time before CFast and XQD have completely taken over. The only thing that could derail that progress is the possibility of SD being replaced by MicroSD (for smaller SLRs and mirrorless, presumably) and the outside chance of on board SSDs becoming viable (the Canon 1D & Nikon Dx bodies being prime candidates). But it's unlikely anyone will start putting 1TB+ m.2 SSDs into an SLR and MicroSD doesn't yet hold enough of an advantage over regular SD to be worth the cost of production accommodating them, so it's far more likely that CF and SD will simply be replaced by CFast and XQD.


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## LDS (Sep 2, 2017)

aceflibble said:


> And Canon _will_ move to XQD. It's only a matter of time before CFast and XQD have completely taken over.



Canon will move, one day, to CFExpress. Smaller CFExpress card will have the XQD form factor (other form factors will be availabe, depending on the number of PCIe lanes), but they use a standard PCIe 3.0 (instead of XQD 2.0) and NVMe interfaces, making them compatible with a large number of devices without relying on proprietary standards.

Don't expect SD cards to be used on high-end devices, especially those needing high-speed and low latency.


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## Talys (Sep 2, 2017)

aceflibble said:


> Talys said:
> 
> 
> > Whoa, didn't see that coming.
> ...



Well sure people used to pay that much for CF cards; they used to pay a lot for mechanical hard drives. People used to pay a lot for USB 1.0 sticks too. Thanks, but I don't really want to go back to paying that, when most of that extra speed is nearly of zero benefit to me. 

If there were two XQD options, one for high speed expensive video and one for low speed cheap stills, I'd be far more in favor of it.


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## AvTvM (Sep 2, 2017)

Antono Refa said:


> Price and backward compatibility will win, until it can't be stretched forward anymore.
> ...
> CF can't be stretched no more. CFast doesn't gather momentum, and CFexpress is already out, so I bet is it would die as well. CFexpress doesn't seem to gather momentum either.
> My bet is that when the dust settles, SD UHS III will come on top, and XQD & CF[& descendants] will go the way of the Betamax.



fully agree. MicroSD has won already on 1. price/value, 2. physical size, 3. number and type of devices using MicroSD. 

Canon will never move to XQD. 
XQD is Sony Memory Stick all over.


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## RGF (Sep 2, 2017)

Not sure what the future will be Lexar quality. Longsys could maintain the quality or go for price over quality. I'll wait and watch. Glad Canon has decided not to adopt XQD.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Sep 2, 2017)

aceflibble said:


> Talys said:
> 
> 
> > Whoa, didn't see that coming.
> ...



After I bought my Nikon CP-990 in 2000, I bought a 85mb CF card. There was nothing larger. It cost me something like $185. I've never paid that much for a card since. My 128GB Lexar that I just bought was about $125. XQD cards are slightly more expensive, CFast cards are much more expensive.


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## Talys (Sep 3, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> XQD is Sony Memory Stick all over.



GAH. I still have some of those 

And then there was the mini version of those!


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## privatebydesign (Sep 3, 2017)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> ........CFast cards are much more expensive.



I got two for 'free'.


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## RGF (Sep 3, 2017)

privatebydesign said:


> Mt Spokane Photography said:
> 
> 
> > ........CFast cards are much more expensive.
> ...



Do you mean you bought 2 1Dx Mark II when they were first released. Perhaps you should think you got the cameras for free and you paid a lot for the cards? :


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## privatebydesign (Sep 3, 2017)

RGF said:


> privatebydesign said:
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> > Mt Spokane Photography said:
> ...



Kind of. I got two but not on first release, I just shopped around and the best deal I found was still offering the 'Premium Kit' though no cute fold out box.

And yes you could reason it the other way too. But I suppose my point was that 'new' formats often come with sweeteners, Nikon did the same thing when they released their first cameras with XQD, they came with a free card. Canon gave you a free card and reader with their first stills centric DSLR with CFast.

Now what am I going to do with two unused CFast 2.0 readers?


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## Talys (Sep 3, 2017)

Another benefit of SD that is hard to overstate -- having readers built in to a massive number of notebooks is a huge advantage, not to mention that they're on many monitors, PCs, televisions, and so on. 

It's just very convenient -- and again, if I can't benefit from 100MB/s, I'll lose this convenience, because I don't think builtin XQD or CFast readers are coming to devices any time soon. In part, this could be because these are really, really fast, and would encourage people to NOT buy very expensive, higher end SSD storage on their $1500+ notebook (often one of the best moneymakers for notebook manufacturers), instead opting to store stuff in a super fast card and buying a base model.


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## pvalpha (Sep 4, 2017)

Personally I think CFast (or something based on PCIExpress) will be the winner for high end video and SD will be the format for everything else because of ubiquity. PCIe over USB-Type-C will be the winner for CFast 2+ and SD UHSIII will be the standard for everything under [email protected] with compression. Just because everything from 4k TV's to laptops and tablets will have readers built in. 

Eventually SD will have an X2 or X4 PCIe interface in micro and full-sized formats. (X1 PCIe is basically the equivilant USB spec of the same number. So a PCIe 3.0 X1 connection is exactly one USB 3.0 connection.)

Sadly, I think canon will still lag at least half-a-decade behind on their standards implementations. By not responding to the D500 they basically proved that they don't give a rat's fart for preserving anything other than their flagships (5D and 1D). And MILC will never be anywhere near an XD series camera in their mind's eye - to them its consumer claptrap or something a pro considers a disposable camera to be used in a pinch. They're crazy protective of their product lines to prevent cannibalism of any kind and using older tech is a way of saying "If you want to do better, buy a higher end model and pay the price".


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## magarity (Sep 5, 2017)

Antono Refa said:


> Manufacturing is moving east for decades, and there's sense in doing everything (from NANDs to slapping the sticker on) in one place.


When you outsource manufacturing to China, you get exactly the quality you specify in the contract if you don't pay until it passes your own QC. Specify and pay for high quality, get high quality. When everything is local, however, buyer had best beware because it can be hit or miss until the company's reputation becomes known.


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## RGF (Sep 5, 2017)

LDS said:


> aceflibble said:
> 
> 
> > And Canon _will_ move to XQD. It's only a matter of time before CFast and XQD have completely taken over.
> ...



I am not an engineer but personally I hate (perhaps too strong a word) SD cards. Very small, high risk of losing one.

I would rather see faster/larger/cheaper CF, CFast cards. Dual slots in the camera so there can be an internal redundancy.


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## AvTvM (Sep 5, 2017)

RGF said:


> I am not an engineer but personally I hate (perhaps too strong a word) SD cards. Very small, high risk of losing one.
> I would rather see faster/larger/cheaper CF, CFast cards. Dual slots in the camera so there can be an internal redundancy.



Funny, i like 'em as small as possible and have pretty much standardized on MicroSD ... putting them into SD adapters in cameras with SD slot. Never lost one. Never had any failure. [I also never had a bent pin or failure with my CF cards.]

And ... dual MicroSD card slots would easily fit into even the smallest cameras ...


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## neuroanatomist (Sep 5, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> And ... dual MicroSD card slots would easily fit into even the smallest cameras ...



Or into a camera with one CF slot...







There are also dual-microSD-to-MemoryStick adapters, not sure about dual-microSD-to-SD.


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## LDS (Sep 6, 2017)

magarity said:


> Antono Refa said:
> 
> 
> > Manufacturing is moving east for decades, and there's sense in doing everything (from NANDs to slapping the sticker on) in one place.
> ...



Yet not all plants are in China yet  And there are several good reason to avoid a single supplier in a foreign country.

This list in Wikipedia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_semiconductor_fabrication_plants), which may not be up to dare or exhaustive, says Micron had no plants in mainland China (don't know if some production may have been outsourced).

Look also who Japan is trying to avoid Toshiba and his Japanese foundries and technologies end in Chinese hands...

Let's see if Lexar will still be an high-end brand, of will just become a way to sell to customers unaware of the changes.


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## RGF (Sep 9, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> RGF said:
> 
> 
> > I am not an engineer but personally I hate (perhaps too strong a word) SD cards. Very small, high risk of losing one.
> ...



In the winter, even with liner gloves, I find SD cards hard to handle. Rather not go bare handed with it subzero F or -20 C


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## AvTvM (Sep 9, 2017)

RGF said:


> In the winter, even with liner gloves, I find SD cards hard to handle. Rather not go bare handed with it subzero F or -20 C



on theory yes. in practice i cannot recall ever having to swap cards in the field. at least not since i am using microSD cards from 32 GB upwards. at least if one does not capture video. 

even 128 GB microsd cards are quite affordable now. i'd love to get a camera with dual micro sd slots recording in parallel - both slots running at full uhs II (or soon uhs iii) speed, without slowing down camera (as in any current dual slot canon camera whete only 1 söot is fast and the other one is dead slow and 2 generations behind current standards).


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## 9VIII (Sep 10, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> RGF said:
> 
> 
> > In the winter, even with liner gloves, I find SD cards hard to handle. Rather not go bare handed with it subzero F or -20 C
> ...



I hadn't though about using Micro SD before. It's an excellent point, there's no way they could realistically say there isn't enough room for cameras to have both SD and Micro SD.

Manufacturers need to get over themselves and put "some" sort of dual card capabilities in their cameras. All EOS bodies should have it without exception.
To make things simpler for consumers, on Rebel bodies Canon should make the Micro SD slot act as a "Memory Buffer" that would store images up to certain number and then overwrite old images like a security camera would.
Just include an 8GB card in the camera by defaut (it would add less than $2 to the overall cost) and then consumers wouldn't have the option of forgetting to backup their images.


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## RGF (Sep 11, 2017)

AvTvM said:


> RGF said:
> 
> 
> > In the winter, even with liner gloves, I find SD cards hard to handle. Rather not go bare handed with it subzero F or -20 C
> ...




I don't erase cards till I get home. THey are my final backup. So it is not uncommon for me to fill a card in the field. For example, if I have 32 GB card that is 60% full, I can easily fill it if I have a great day in the field.


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## AvTvM (Sep 11, 2017)

RGF said:


> AvTvM said:
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> > RGF said:
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i use a fresh/empty card every day. swap of cards never in the field/during action. 64gb MicroSD cards are quite cheap by now and get me through any day of shooting, including a full wedding ... raw of course. ;-)


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