# When is the M5 Shipping?



## Bennymiata (Oct 24, 2016)

I thought it would out by now, and I'm itching to get one.

I reckon this will be a real hit for Canon.

I've tried a few mirrorless cameras and none of them have excited me, but the M5 does get me excited.


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## rrcphoto (Oct 24, 2016)

end of november.


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## Otara (Oct 24, 2016)

Its showng up in my local store as more expensive than the 80D. I know its new but does that make sense?

Otara


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## AvTvM (Oct 24, 2016)

Otara said:


> Its showng up in my local store as more expensive than the 80D. I know its new but does that make sense?



for Canon ... yes. M5 compared to 80D means lower cost to assemble, adjust, quality control and (warranty) service AND higher sales price = a whole lot more profit. 

For buyers ... no. At least some of the savings involved with mirrorless cameras compared to DSLRs should be passed on to customers. Luckily there is competition, so mirrorless prices will come down substantially over the next year.


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## Bennymiata (Oct 24, 2016)

Thanks guys.


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## Mt Spokane Photography (Oct 24, 2016)

The MSRP for the bare M5 in the USA is $979. For the 80D, it is $1199.

Which local store has the M5 in stock? What price is it? Is it a bare camera or a kit?

You need to compare apples with apples, the bare camera is the best way, since different lenses are in the kits.

For Example, at the Camera shop in Sidney, AU

80D body =$1539
M5 Body = $1450 but they are not actually available yet.


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## pokerz (Oct 24, 2016)

Otara said:


> Its showng up in my local store as more expensive than the 80D. I know its new but does that make sense?
> 
> Otara


Canon developed built-in video stabilization system (5 axis Electronic IS) for m5 which greatly increases the competitiveness.


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## Sportsgal501 (Oct 25, 2016)

Thanks was curious about that too.


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## mitchel2002 (Oct 26, 2016)

cant wait to see it hit the shelves, and my hands  ;D


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## njene (Oct 26, 2016)

Im itching to get one, but im hoping Canon will have some good sales happening going into the christmas season, esp as their latest quarter, profits took a hit


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## bholliman (Oct 26, 2016)

I generally wait for formal reviews and the initial price drop after new Canon bodies or lenses are released before I buy, but I'll make an exception here. The M5's spec's are pretty much exactly what I've been hoping for to replace my M1 as a small camera to compliment my DSLR's.


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## NorbR (Oct 27, 2016)

Glad to see I'm not the only one waiting for this one ... I intend to buy one as soon as they hit the shelves.

For the record, at least here in Switzerland, I'm starting to think that they could arrive pretty soon. Up until recently most stores announced an arrival in November (nothing more accurate), and while there was one store predicting availability on Nov 4, I didn't really trust that from just one store. Today I noticed two more online stores, announcing availability on Nov 3 and Nov 1 respectively. 

So I'm getting hopeful that they'll start showing up next week, and that I'll have one in my hands by the end of that week. Fingers crossed ...


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## sunnyVan (Oct 27, 2016)

I thought about pre-ordering the first two weeks when it's announced. I have decided to wait for a price drop. One grand is way overpriced. I don't think $200 difference between m5 and 80d is well justified. M5 has limited lens selection, is not weather resistant, has limited battery life. To me, launch price of about $800 would sound more palatable. Besides the M line seems to get refreshed almost every year, unlike the 80d line, which gets refreshed every few years. It seems such risky investment like Sony a6000 series. 

Anyway, I am interested but I am waiting for a more reasonable price.


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## Arctic-Winds (Nov 25, 2016)

Canon has begun shipping to customers and stores in the UK. Mine arrives later today (Friday 25th) direct from Canon so probably early next week for online stores.


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## Refurb7 (Nov 25, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> Otara said:
> 
> 
> > Its showng up in my local store as more expensive than the 80D. I know its new but does that make sense?
> ...



Please tell that to Fuji and Sony. They haven't gotten the message about mirrorless's lower costs being passed on to customers.


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## AvTvM (Nov 25, 2016)

fuji is premium-land. "premium" = pay a lot more than necessary for a specific functionality.
premium land is a thinly populated, small territory, since only a small minority of people is dumb enough, willing and able to pay premium prices. 

in other words: fuji is relegated to a minuscule market share <5% as long as they follow their current product and pricing strategy. 

sony is in a similar corner. while 1st gen A7 lineup was reasonably priced, they charge premium prices for mark II generation bodies and even more so for lenses. zeiss badge or gmaster, not bad products, but 50% too fat, heavy and overpriced. which ... limits sony marketshare to less than 20% forever. even while being sole supplier for FF mirrorless system. 

canon EOS M system is fairly affordable, especially EF-M lenses. and EOS M cameras may come with premium launch price, but quickly fall to reasonable levels or have to be firesold at rock bottom prices. therefore, canon enkoys a fairly healthy marketshate even with sub-par mirrorless products. 

economy is really simple.


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## mb66energy (Nov 25, 2016)

Mt Spokane Photography said:


> The MSRP for the bare M5 in the USA is $979. For the 80D, it is $1199.
> 
> Which local store has the M5 in stock? What price is it? Is it a bare camera or a kit?
> 
> ...



M5 with EF-M - EF adapter: 1129 EUR
EOS 80D body : 999 EUR
here in Germany for a "phantom camera (till November, 30)" and an available camera.
If you remove the EF-M - EF adapter you will see similar prices for both. The body only
"package" will com soon hopefully - I have the adapter and enough lenses (18-55, 22) as
standard lenses.

About M5: I cannot wait to see the results of tests and especially samples which show the IQ
of that cam. After fiddeling around with old FD lenses with my EOS M classic I discovered
really great IQ with the 1.8 85 S.S.C. and the 3.5 135 S.C. - sharpness/contrast wise + "image texture" wise
maybe EOS M5 would lift it to another level and increase the usability of these lenses with its EVF.
And the EVF makes the EOS M5 a good video option with hopefully great video IQ (I prefer a good
HD/2k quality over some Ultra HD/4k capabilities).

Great times unleashing a lot of options for photographing and video in an affordable package ...


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## AvTvM (Nov 25, 2016)

mb66energy said:


> M5 with EF-M - EF adapter: 1129 EUR
> EOS 80D body : 999 EUR
> here in Germany for a "phantom camera (till November, 30)" and an available camera.
> If you remove the EF-M - EF adapter you will see similar prices for both. The body only
> ...



80D was € 888,- at amazon Germany this week. ;-)

Also, for previous EOS M models it always took a very long time after launch until "body only" became available in Europe. The "M3 body + external EVF kit at a reasonable price" was sold in Japan, but never offered by Canon in Europe. 

Somehow Canon seems to be under the impression that every M-customer is a first-time mirrorless EOS buyer in need of a (kit) lens ... : 

Generally it would be really smart if Canon would let customers build their own bundles of "body plus additional items" like lenses, adapter, strobes, EVF, etc. providing attractive discounts, e.g. -20% -30% -40% for second, third and fourth item, ranked by price in descending order. No need for separate "kit boxes" and "white boxes", we don't mind getting 4 items in their regular packaging. 

Canon does offer such "free choice"-bundles in some of the current cash-back deals in Europe (incl. Germany). It should be standard procedure available immediately at checkout for both online and store purchases. Without need for laborious cash-back dances.


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## lw (Nov 25, 2016)

Mine arrived last tuesday 22nd from Amazon UK
and I even got a discounted price as they had it on offer (15-45 kit)

In the UK it comes as a "Get Started Kit" complete with EF adaptor
Unboxing https://youtu.be/lXcePAQyRec


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## Deleted member 378664 (Nov 25, 2016)

Hello lw,

did your EF-EOS M adaptor came with the tripod mount or without it?

In Germany the tripod mount is not included in the "kit adaptor".This fact is even stated on the package, but the user manual did not mention that the tripod mount is to be bought seperately and even recommends to use the mounted adaptor only with the tripod mount if working on a tripod. Additionally this tripod mount is not available as a seperat product currently in the Canon shop.

regards
Frank


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## lw (Nov 25, 2016)

Photorex said:


> did your EF-EOS M adaptor came with the tripod mount or without it?



No. It did NOT come with a tripod mount.

I assume all these kits with included adaptor are the same across the EU.


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## Deleted member 378664 (Nov 25, 2016)

This is how the package of the adaptor looks like in the kits in Germany:






It is stated in different languages that it comes without the tripod mount. It's really a pitty. Because I won't be able to purchase such a tripod mount seperately.

I wondered from the beginning why my package show already signs of being opened before it was delivered to me.

Frank


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## lw (Nov 25, 2016)

Photorex said:


> This is how the package of the adaptor looks like in the kits in Germany:
> 
> It is stated in different languages that it comes without the tripod mount. It's really a pitty. Because I won't be able to purchase such a tripod mount seperately.



Same box as the UK


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## AvTvM (Nov 25, 2016)

wow, if they really ship EF-M/EF adapters without the tripod mount ... how shabby and low can you go, Canon?


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## mb66energy (Nov 25, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> [...]
> (1)
> 80D was € 888,- at amazon Germany this week. ;-)
> 
> ...



Ad (1): now it is 688 EUR sold by Nohakackahacka345 or so - not a source I would buy something ... the offer is 1050 EUR roughly.

Ad (2): I would be satisfied with fair prices and add these prices if I buy several items. I do not need all the rebate blah blah ...


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## troy19 (Nov 25, 2016)

Photorex said:


> It is stated in different languages that it comes without the tripod mount.



Frank, I wasn't aware that Canon sells this adapter without the tripod mount. Does your device has a screw-in for the screw? 

You may want to check the picture on the online-offer of your dealer: does it show the adapter with oder w/o the mount? How is the description of your order? You may want to ask your dealer for an exchange of the adapter?


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## mb66energy (Nov 25, 2016)

lw said:


> Photorex said:
> 
> 
> > This is how the package of the adaptor looks like in the kits in Germany:
> ...



There are two photos on A ma zo n available, one with tripod foot, one without. I would ask for such a foot because it is displayed on one image and there is no hint that it isn't delivered with the set.


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## Deleted member 378664 (Nov 25, 2016)

troy19 said:


> Photorex said:
> 
> 
> > It is stated in different languages that it comes without the tripod mount.
> ...



I already asked my dealer to send me the tripod mount when I saw the package has been opened before I got it. Did not recognize this hint on the box. My dealer send me the above posted picture. So the dealer is not to blame.

My dealer and me also claimed this with Canon already. So far no answer from Canon Germany. I will also claim this with Canon Europe.

There are now 6 reasons for me why I want them to send me this tripod mount.
1. I already have an EOS M with a seperately bought EF-EOS M adapter. This adapter came with the tripod mount.
2. In the manual you can find the following statement with an exclamation mark as warning symbol:


> When shooting with a tripod, do not use the camera’s tripod mount
> socket while the adapter is attached. Be sure to use the tripod
> mount *included* with the adapter


3. In the manual there is nowhere a hint that the tripod mount is available as seperat part or should be bought seperately.
4. In the Canon online Shop (Germany) the adapter is shown with the tripod mount.
5. The tripod mount isn't listed at all in the online shop (Canon Germany)
6. This thread, which shows me, that the tripod mount is delivered in UK despite the hint on the box.

regards
Frank

P.S.: @troy19: I guess, if you buy the adapter seperately (not in a kit together with the cam) you will get the adapter with the tripod mount.


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## lw (Nov 26, 2016)

The other problem with them not including the tripod foot is that the base of the adaptor is slightly lower than the base of the camera.

Two of my tripod quick-release plates actually overlap the adaptor (because the M body is so narrow), and as a consequence when you tighten them up they actually end up at a slight angle, and not flush to the body.

The first time I did this I also found that as a consequence of this angle the base of the rear LCD now is tight against the plate and cannot be moved. So you have to make sure it is moved up before adding the plate.

Of course I could get smaller plates, but that means replacing the heads! (I do have one small 'travel' tripod that has a small plate)
But more to the point, why should I? I expected the adaptor to include the tripod foot. The retailer made no mention that the foot wasn't included. They just say "Free Canon Mount Adapter EF-EOS M" so you expect it to be the same one you can buy by itself. 

I have taken it up with Canon and the retailer, so will see what happens.


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## lw (Nov 26, 2016)

Photorex said:


> 6. This thread, which shows me, that the tripod mount is delivered in UK despite the hint on the box.



Sorry if I confused earlier, but I have updated the post.

In the UK the tripod foot is NOT included. I think this is the same across the EU.

My unboxing video shows that the adaptor is boxed identically to yours with the note that the mount is not included


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## troy19 (Nov 26, 2016)

Photorex said:


> My dealer and me also claimed this with Canon already. So far no answer from Canon Germany. I will also claim this with Canon Europe.


If everyone claims this with Canon, maybe they will react positive and send the mount to the customers. 

Frank, can you check if there's an inside thread at your adapter, so add-on the mount would be easy. 

BTW my dealer (Germany) confirmed, that his batch of M5 came w/o the mount, and he and his customers are not happy with this situation. More, Canon didn't communicated this to him in advance


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## lw (Nov 26, 2016)

Amazon said they cannot supply the tripod mount by itself, so I can return the whole kit for a refund if I wish. 

As it stands, there is no way to buy the M5 in the EU without the adaptor (unless you get a grey import). So returning it for a refund achieves nothing unless I chose a different camera.

Will wait and see what Canon say.


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## Deleted member 378664 (Nov 26, 2016)

@lw:

thanks for your clarification.
This is really a shame for Canon. As you wrote the EF-EOS M mount with its dimensions doesn't allow to use a "normal" plate on the cam. So you have to use the tripod mount on the adapter as long as you don't bring in one of the big whites with their on tripod mount.

@troy19:
Yes, there is a thread in the adapter. This can't be the reason for not delivering the tripod mount.


The automatic reply from Canon Europe asked me to wait up to two days for an answer. Yesterday four days went by without an answer and I renewed my complaint with them. Hopefully they will react some time. This is also very customer unfriendly behaviour.

regards
Frank


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## AvTvM (Nov 26, 2016)

Incredible scam. Europe customers f*cked by Canon. 
I would love to personally put thumbscrews on the Canon executive responsible for the decision to ship adaptors without tripod mount. 1 Euro cost saving a piece. May they burn in hell.


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## lw (Nov 26, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> Incredible scam. Europe customers f*cked by Canon.
> I would love to personally put thumbscrews on the Canon executive responsible for the decision to ship adaptors without tripod mount. 1 Euro cost saving a piece. May they burn in hell.



Burning in hell isn't harsh enough for them! 

Seriously though, what were they thinking when the decided not to include the tripod mount? 

I had'nt really thought about it for the first couple of days when I got the M5, but yesterday I had need to put it on a tripod and then realised none of my quick-release plates actually fit without overlapping the adaptor and leaving the camera sitting at a slight angle. Then I realised I couldn't move the rear LCD without removing it from the plate and moving it out the way first.

That's when I started to feel a little annoyed they had not included it.

Most retailers make no mention of it not being included. I think the ones that now do have amended their websites probably as a result of customers getting their M5 and asking the retailer where it is. I certainly saw no mentions of this before when I was looking around deciding where to place my order.


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## brad-man (Nov 26, 2016)

Canon may have omitted the tripod base for several reasons:

*The M line of cameras are so lightweight that the functional advantage of moving the center of gravity an inch or two is suspect.

*That little doohickey costs a lot to manufacture, so better to be sold as an accessory (at a reasonable price).

*They would like you to purchase lens collars for any lenses that you may have (at a reasonable price).

The Yongnuo and many other aftermarket adapters _do_ come with the mount, so there's that...

 https://www.amazon.com/YONGNUO-Auto-focus-Smart-Adapter-Camera/dp/B00NAUS9BO


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 26, 2016)

lw said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > Incredible scam. Europe customers f*cked by Canon.
> ...



Warning: reality check ahead. Read on at your own peril. 






Once again, we see how the CR membership isn't even remotely representative of Canon's target market. Canon apparently believes that only a very small fraction of M-series buyers own/use a tripod – and they almost certainly have the market research data to support that belief. Schlepping around a tripod is rather antithetical to the main advantage of a MILC system. I'd bet good money that they're absolutely correct, and I'd add that of that small fraction who do own a tripod, most have one of the cheap, big-box-store variety (pan/tilt head, horizontal leg supports) and have never heard of the quick-release plates that are giving some CR members trouble. 

What were they thinking? They were thinking of reducing costs to increase profit. It's called running a business. As for '1€ cost savings a piece', there's hyperbole...then there's stupidity. This isn't a molded bare plastic lens hood, as you can see in the iPhone snap below, it's multiple pieces of precision CNC-machined metal with inset rubber bumpers and multiple assembly steps – in terms of cost, it likely represents a meaningful fraction (15-20%?) of the production cost for the mount adapter. 

Then there's the whole 'I bought a set of golf clubs, and the free head covers that came with them didn't have one for my lob wedge' thing (picture that being said in a petulant, whining voice accompanied by a stamping foot). It's *free*, for cryin' out loud. If you need to use it with an EF/EF-S lens and a tripod, you'd have had to buy the adapter separately anyway, so you're no worse off. But if you're like the vast majority of M buyers who don't and will never own a tripod, but do happen to own an EF-S lens or two (like the 55-250 that came with an xxxD body 2-lens kit), this freebie is a nice little value add. 

Personally, I'd be peeved if I bought the kit with the free mount adapter and I'd didn't come with the tripod foot. But unlike many here on CR, I recognize the fact that I'm a highly atypical buyer (not many would be using an M5 on a tripod that costs more than the M5, with that tripod being the less expensive of their two tripods). But for me it's totally moot, since the free foot-less adapter isn't even offered in the US, _and_ I already have the adapter with the foot (obviously, since I just took a picture of it).


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## lw (Nov 26, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> It's *free*, for cryin' out loud.



But its not really free. Its is part of the kit. You buy the kit... Not a camera with a free adaptor on the side. The camera and adaptor are in the same box. The price of the kit reflects the fact it includes the adaptor.
And you cannot buy the M5 by itself or in any combination without the adaptor. A kit including the adaptor is the only EU retail packaging.

It doesn't matter if some retailers have chosen to call it free because it isn't really.
Canon do not claim it is free. They say it is a kit, and the adaptor is part of the kit. (at least they are honest about it not including the mount. Most retailers are not) https://store.canon.co.uk/canon-eos-m5-ef-m-15-45mm-lens-kit/1279C045/

Its like saying the M5 + 15-45mm kit includes a free lens. 

But more to the point, there is an instruction manual inside the kit that says 

_Precautions when using this adapter with a tripod

When shooting with a tripod, do not use the camera’s tripod mount socket while the adapter is attached. Be sure to use the tripod mount included with the adapter._

So what do you think your "Canon's target market' would make of that? Wouldn't that strike immediate panic into the poor dears? "What adapter?" ???, as they search the packaging in vain trying to find where it is.

But your view as to "Canon's target market" must differ from mine and Canon's.

According to Canon the target is enthusiasts.

_Canon’s flagship mirrorless camera that offers uncompromising DSLR quality and speed for *enthusiasts*_

In the EU, the currently the M5 is the most expensive Canon ILC you can buy outside of their professional models. It is more expensive than the 80D and every other Canon DSLR or MILC below that.

But these *enthusiasts *buying this expensive camera have never heard of a quick release plate though. Yeh, right. :


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## Quackator (Nov 26, 2016)

The tripod socket has many flaws, and I think this is the reason for 
1) practically "giving the adapter away" (forcebundling it) with initial sales and 
2) omitting the tripod socket.

The flaws are: 
1) The contact plane towards the tripod is too small, it will never be turnproof
2) The contact area towards the adapter is also very small, with a longer telephoto one will likely rip it out of the adapter

I think that we will soon see a version II.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 26, 2016)

lw said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > It's *free*, for cryin' out loud.
> ...



Oh, ok. I guess multiple retailers are lying. 



lw said:


> But your view as to "Canon's target market" must differ from mine and Canon's.
> 
> According to Canon the target is enthusiasts.
> 
> In the EU, the currently the M5 is the most expensive Canon ILC you can buy outside of their professional models. It is more expensive than the 80D and every other Canon DSLR or MILC below that.



As for "enthusiasts" the 7D Mark II and the 6D are targeted at that same market, and cost more than the M5. So it would seem that your view differs significantly from Canon's view. 

Also, I think you vastly overestimate the number of 'enthusiasts' who use a tripod, and moreso those who would be using a tripod with a camera intended for more portability.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 26, 2016)

Quackator said:


> The tripod socket has many flaws, and I think this is the reason for
> 1) practically "giving the adapter away" (forcebundling it) with initial sales and
> 2) omitting the tripod socket.
> 
> ...



Are you referring to the tripod socket on the M5 body, or the tripod foot on the adapter. If you're referring to the adapter's foot, your 'flaws' are bogus. 

The foot of the adapter offers ideal anti-twist if used with a proper plate, since they included a hole for the pin of a video plate. I use an RRS B26 plate on the foot, and there's no twisting at all.











As for the a long telephoto being 'likely rip it out of the adapter', the adapter does just fine with a 70-200/2.8L IS II, so I have no doubt it would do equally well with any lens that doesn't come with a tripod collar.


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## Don Haines (Nov 26, 2016)

I am not a typical buyer, but I am thinking of getting a M5......

What would I use it for? Hiking, kayaking, and all those times that I would not bring my "real" camera and lenses along with me.

I would probably own 2 "M" lenses, the 22F2 and the Tamron 18-200. The 22F2 would be the primary lens..... after all, the whole point of going to a tiny system is to keep things tiny.

I would NOT be using it with my EF lenses (slapping on a Tammy 150-600 negates any size savings) and would not be using it on a tripod...... but my hiking pole can be used as a monopod so it would see some limited use there.

The whole idea of a tiny system is that it is tiny. Slap on big lenses, carry along a tripod, a 600EX and a better beamer, etc, etc.... and you have negated the thing you bought it for.

Just my $0.02......


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## Quackator (Nov 26, 2016)

Most people will not use the tripod socket with a video tripod,
so they won't have that register pin.

Also, the lever towards the hull of the adaptor still presents
a potential point of failure. At least mine is easy to wiggle 
because it has play towards the adaptor, and I personally
don't trust it.

Of course the "free" adaptor is marketing speech. It is a forced
bundle to get rid of it and flush the warehouses.

After they are depleted, the camera will be available for 999 Euro
(Europe) likely before Xmas. The regular price for the adaptor
including the tripod socket is 129 Euro.

So the charge you one extra Euro and save on the tripod socket
while at the same time getting rid of stock surplus.

I am much more appalled to see that the M5 can't be tethered via
USB or Wifi to a computer - no remote shooting.

That is much worsened by the fact that even the cheapest rebel
can do this at a third of the price.

And there is one real bug. Many people will assign the M.Fn button
to switch between display and EVF. While in review/play mode,
this button is dysfunctional. You have to revert to shooting mode
in order to switch between display and EVF.


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## lw (Nov 26, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Oh, ok. I guess multiple retailers are lying.



That's not what I was saying. I said some retailers claim it is free. But as you can't buy the camera without it, it can't really be described as free. It is priced into the kit you are buying. They may as well say the strap in the box is free.

If it was free, I would be able to buy the camera alone at the same price. I can't. I can only buy it with the adaptor. Ergo its part of the kit price. As I pointed out Canon themselves in their store do NOT claim it is free.



neuroanatomist said:


> As for "enthusiasts" the 7D Mark II and the 6D are targeted at that same market, and cost more than the M5. So it would seem that your view differs significantly from Canon's view.



I was thinking of the 7D MkII as more a pro model.

As for a 6D, then the M5 is currently more expensive in the UK as I said.
Best price for a 6D body, from an official retailer is £949 after £100 cashback from Canon
Best price for an M5 body is £995
(source camerapricebuster)



neuroanatomist said:


>



that's an image of Canon's list of enthusiast DSLRs. http://www.canon.co.uk/for_home/product_finder/cameras/digital_slr/enthusiasts/
Why would the M5 be on that page? Hint, it isn't a DSLR.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 26, 2016)

lw said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> >
> ...



I wasn't expecting the M5 to be on a list of dSLRs, but...



lw said:


> I was thinking of the 7D MkII as more a pro model.



Hint, you were wrong (according to Canon, which was the point of the graphic).


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## Deleted member 378664 (Nov 26, 2016)

> _Canon apparently believes that only a very small fraction of M-series buyers own/use a tripod_



But than they should at least offer the possibility to this small fraction (including me) to buy this tripod foot seperately. As long as they don't they shall include it in the kit. You can't buy it seperately to date. So for this small fraction of clients the adaptor is only worth the half.

It is nothing wrong for a company to decide to sell something seperately in their point of view but they can't do one step (leaving out the tripod foot) without the other (not selling it seperately). 

Sometime they decided to leave it out of the kit and even changed the wording on the box that it is not included. They missed to change the wording in the manual accordingly. But I guess this would have eaten their savings of leaving out the tripod foot. They can't state in their manuals you should use this tripod foot when using a tripod and aren't able to sell you this part.

Together with the decision to leave it out of the package they should also have decided to offer this tripod foot in their shops. Maybe they even did decide so and there is hope that they "only" have problems with manufacturing and bringing it to market. Let's wait some weeks.

Frank


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 26, 2016)

Photorex said:


> > _Canon apparently believes that only a very small fraction of M-series buyers own/use a tripod_
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Absolutely agreed, they should offer it separately. The M5 itself isn't even available globally yet, so no doubt they have more pressing priorities. I'm sure they'll offer the adapter tripod foot as a separate accessory at some point in the future.


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## AvTvM (Nov 27, 2016)

1. target audience for M5 are mainly existing Canon DSLR and EF/EF-S lens owners. nikon users will not buy M5. Fuji users will not. Sony users will not. some first time buyers might. they dont need an adapter at all, since they won't have EF/EF-S glass in their posession.

2. tripods do not only come full-size carbon freaking expensive gitzo or rrs type. my small travel bag contains EOS-M, 18-55, 22/2 and depending on occasion 11-22 and/or 55-200. no need for adapter. OR if i want subject isolation and or expect low light situations, EF 50/1.8 STM or EF 40/2.8 STM. plus adapter with foot, equipped with arca compatible small plate, twist proof. construction and mechanical stability of adaptor + foot is excellent by the way. i also öike the fact, that tripod foot is detachable tool free. 
AND aleays along is a cullman copter small table-top tripod https://www.amazon.de/Cullmann-Multistativ-inkl-CB2-7-Kugelkopf/dp/B0045HKJZU equipped with tiny ball head and further upgraded with small arca compatible clamp. any time i encounter shutter times not securely i use it. it is small, cheap and sturdy enough for M plus adapter plus (a smaller) EF-lens. in a pinch it may also be used as a baton for self defense. 

i shall post images of gear and usage tomorrow (if i get around to it).

it is totally inacceptable by canon to cheap out on that tripod foot in a kit bundle. with adapter. even when i will buy m5 "body only" (whenever it becomes available) since i already have all EF-M lenses and adapter with foot. 

stupid, Canon!


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## Don Haines (Nov 27, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> Tripods do not only come full-size carbon freaking expensive gitzo or rrs type.



A very valid point.

Earlier I had said that I could not ever see myself using an M5 on a tripod.... mostly because I would never use my P/S camera on a tripod..... but I was wrong. I have never used my P/S camera on a full size tripod, but it has been used many times on a gorillapod flexible tripod. I can easily see me with a M5, 22F2 lens, and a gorillapod holding it to my canoe as I paddle along.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 27, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> 2. tripods do not only come full-size carbon freaking expensive gitzo or rrs type. my small travel bag contains EOS-M, 18-55, 22/2 and depending on occasion 11-22 and/or 55-200. no need for adapter. OR if i want subject isolation and or expect low light situations, EF 50/1.8 STM or EF 40/2.8 STM. plus adapter with foot, equipped with arca compatible small plate, twist proof. construction and mechanical stability of adaptor + foot is excellent by the way. i also öike the fact, that tripod foot is detachable tool free.



Given that the adapter + 50/1.8 or 40/2.8 are smaller than some native M lenses, you're just supporting my point that there's not much of a need for the mount adapter foot in a 'portable' kit.




Don Haines said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > Tripods do not only come full-size carbon freaking expensive gitzo or rrs type.
> ...



True, I took the 2.5 s exposure below with the M2 and M11-22 on a Gorillapod attached to the railing of one of the Golden Jubilee Bridges. But again, these aren't things that require a tripod foot on the adapter, and I, for one, would not be using an M-adapted 24-70/2.8L or 11-24L on a Gorillapod dangling over the Thames.


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## lw (Nov 27, 2016)

I did get a reply from Canon Customer Support (impressive that they replied at the weekend), but I am not 100% sure they understood the issue.
I carefully explained my reasons why I thought they should include the tripod mount (e.g. the manual tells you to use it, and the adaptor fouls my tripods).
The representative apoligised saying _"With reference to the Item Checklist within the Mount Adapter EF-EOS M Instruction Manual, the missing article mentioned by you, should have been included in the box upon purchase" _ and gave me the number of the spares department who would deal with this and send it out as long as I claimed within 14 days of the original receipt of the camera.

But it isn't really a 'missing article' of course to the extent that Canon never meant for it to be in the box anyway, so it will be interesting to see what the spares department says on Monday morning.

Though the rep is correct that the checklist of parts in the adaptor instruction manual does say the mount should be there. So Canon should have thought this through a bit more carefully I suppose before simply removing it.


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## AvTvM (Nov 27, 2016)

It is totally absurd. For ONCE Canon has designed something *really right". Nice, simple, mechanically solid adapter with a perfectly stable, nicely detachable (tool-less!) tripod foot. Next thing you know is Canon SKIMPING on that tripod foot. For peanuts in cost saving. Printing the warning "does not contain tripod foot" in 5 languages on the kit box probably costs more than including the damn foot. 

And yes, while it is possible to use small/light EF or EF-S lenses like 40/2.8, 50/1.8 STM, 60/2.8 Macro via adapter without tripod foot, handling is much better if center of gravity is directly over ballhead. Especially on a light & small Micro-Tripod/Gorillapod with limited holding power. Even more so with using beefier lenses, eg. EF 100/2.8 L IS Macro with adapter. 

Images show use with EF 50/1.8 STM, without and with tripod foot. Why should we ever accept having to use a subpar solution, when a *really right" solution exists? Nevertheless, first thing that happens on this forum is Canon Defense League immediately rushing to the defense of Canon and excusing this dirty scam ... 

Last image shows what typically goes into my compact Hama bag [L 20 x D 14 x H18 cm] for city trips: EOS M, 18-55, 22, 55-200, 50/1.8 STM + adapter + tripod foot. Plus Cullmann Copter mini tripod stuck into flexible mesh side pocket. 

btw.: I use small/slim, non-twist Arca-compatible plates branded "Mengs" or "Sirui" TY-C10 
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00IR7CZQ0/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3JZTMFUUQ40AH
and clamp "DC-38Q". https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00K18K28G/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3JZTMFUUQ40AH

Very reasonably priced, good quality China-stuff, on par with and fully interchangeable with my other - much more expensive - arca-compatible plates/clamps by Markins, Novoflex etc.


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## Deleted member 378664 (Nov 27, 2016)

lw said:


> I did get a reply from Canon Customer Support (impressive that they replied at the weekend), but I am not 100% sure they understood the issue.
> I carefully explained my reasons why I thought they should include the tripod mount (e.g. the manual tells you to use it, and the adaptor fouls my tripods).
> The representative apoligised saying _"With reference to the Item Checklist within the Mount Adapter EF-EOS M Instruction Manual, the missing article mentioned by you, should have been included in the box upon purchase" _



So it seems even some representatives at Canon do not know about the tripod foot left out by purpose and do not know the printing on the box.

@lw: regarding your plate not allowing to be mounted on the camera when the adaptor is mounted, I just tried my Novoflex QPL SLim 39 plate with arca swiss compatible profile.
This fits and even the display can be tilted to some degree.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 27, 2016)

Hejnar makes nice, small plates that should work well on the M5.


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## AvTvM (Nov 27, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Hejnar makes nice, small plates that should work well on the M5.



yep, small plates will work. Just for interests sake: how much are these Hejnar plates ? 

The "Mengs" TY-C10 plate i use is a bit longer 27mm (x 38mm wide) and currently available for € 8,19 a piece on amazon. It does interfere a bit with battery door on EOS M, but it is still possible to change batteries or SD card with plate mounted. Very similar, same size "Sirui" TY-C10 plate has no anti-twist lip.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 27, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Hejnar makes nice, small plates that should work well on the M5.
> ...



The hejnar plate is US$20, is available with or without an anti-twist lip, and allows sufficient opening of the battery door on the M (or it could be mounted off-center and the door could fully open past 90°).


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## Sporgon (Nov 27, 2016)

lw said:


> Photorex said:
> 
> 
> > 6. This thread, which shows me, that the tripod mount is delivered in UK despite the hint on the box.
> ...



Both mine and my brothers adapters bought in the UK have got the tripod adapter included.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 27, 2016)

Sporgon said:


> lw said:
> 
> 
> > Photorex said:
> ...



Are you referring to the adapter bundled with the EOS M5? That's the issue here, I don't think anyone is suggesting an adapter bought on its own lacks the foot (although that _will_ start to happen as those bundled adapters start showing up for sale on eBay, etc.).


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## Sporgon (Nov 27, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Sporgon said:
> 
> 
> > lw said:
> ...



Oooops, sorry I'll go back to sleep


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## lw (Nov 27, 2016)

My 100mm macro looks particularly unbalanced


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 27, 2016)

lw said:


> My 100mm macro looks particularly unbalanced



Do you think moving the attachment forward 3 cm would help much? Looks like a tripod collar is what's really needed, I have one for my Canon 100/2.8L Macro IS.


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## AvTvM (Nov 27, 2016)

Yes! It is (was) an extra advantage of the EF-M/EF adapter to serve as a well-designed and low cost way to equip non-collared lenses with a tripod foot.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 27, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> Yes! It is (was) an extra advantage of the EF-M/EF adapter to serve as a well-designed and low cost way to equip non-collared lenses with a tripod foot.



Help vs. help _much_. Looking at that image, it's still going to be really unbalanced. It wouldn't be so bad with a heavy body on the back side, but the M-series bodies are light (which is part of the point of them).


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## AvTvM (Nov 27, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> lw said:
> 
> 
> > My 100mm macro looks particularly unbalanced
> ...



yes, it helps a lot with a 90/100mm macro lens to attach via adapter foot to tripod. Even if it is only 3 or 4 cm forward. Weight is already a lot better balanced.

But this is really sidelining the discussion. The real issue at hand is Canon' s ultimate shabbyness. Omitting such a little, low cost item from their forced-kit bundle. And going to lengths to print it on the box.  :

We are talking blatant, corporate greed here. Very similar to Apple's decision to omit SD-card slot from their 2016 MB Pro and then trying to explain it as "and advantage to customers". 

Stupid, Apple!
Stupid, Canon!


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 27, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> The real issue at hand is Canon' s ultimate shabbyness for omitting such a little, low cost item off in their forced-kit bundle. We are talking blatant, corporate greed here. Very similar to Apple's decision to omit SD-card slot from their 2016 MB Pro and then trying to explain it as "and advantage to customers".



One individual's corporate greed is a corporation's good business practice.


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## AvTvM (Nov 27, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > The real issue at hand is Canon' s ultimate shabbyness for omitting such a little, low cost item off in their forced-kit bundle. We are talking blatant, corporate greed here. Very similar to Apple's decision to omit SD-card slot from their 2016 MB Pro and then trying to explain it as "and advantage to customers".
> ...



Successful companies cater to their client's needs. Nickel 'n Diming your customer base definitely is not considered "good business practice". To the contrary, it is utmost stupidity.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 27, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



Remind me – which successful, multinational, multi-billion dollar corporations have you run? Yeah, that's what I thought.


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## Orangutan (Nov 27, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...



Your hypothesis is plausible, and it's testable. In the case of Canon, market "testing," (i.e. long-term profitability) clearly shows that their current methods are working. You could assert that this can't go on forever, which would also be a reasonable hypothesis. However, without giving specific conditions under which their current strategies will fail your predictions become untestable, and fall beneath the level of Nostradamus.


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## Don Haines (Nov 27, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > AvTvM said:
> ...


I'm not sure if I would call it the utmost stupidity, but it isn't a good idea.....

Step back and ask the question why?

Why is someone using an M to EF adaptor? Obviously because they want to use an EF lens on an M... but what does that really mean? What it really means is that the user is mounting (typically) a large(r) lens to a small camera. The act of doing so negates the small form factor of the M camera, so all arguments about size and compactness are out the window because the user has decided that , at least for this application, small size does not matter.

If it is a very large lens, then it will have it's own tripod mount and the process is to mount the lens to the tripod and to mount the camera/adaptor to the lens. In this case, the adaptor tripod mount does not matter.

In the case of a tiny lens, such as a pancake, mount the camera to the tripod, adaptor to the camera, and lens to the adaptor. Once again, the adaptor tripod mount does not matter.

For lenses in the middle range, which according to sales numbers are the bulk of lenses sold, it becomes a different story. There is no tripod foot for the lens, yet if mounted by the camera the system becomes quite nose heavy. In this case an adaptor mount makes a lot of sense.

So here we are where in the bulk of cases that the EF mount would be used, that the tripod adaptor would be usefull.... To my mind it would make sense that the tripod mount would be included with the adaptor.

Is the omission utmost stupidity? No. Utmost stupidity would be to not even design it...... but it's omission is certainly a case of nickel and diming the customer for a part that should be included. They include batteries with cameras.... they include lens caps with lenses..... why not tripod mount with adaptor?


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## lw (Nov 27, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Remind me – which successful, multinational, multi-billion dollar corporations have you run? Yeah, that's what I thought.



And which ones have you? Yeah, that's what I thought too.

I was product manager for a $300m product line in a well known global hi-tech. Making pricing & position decisions, and debating cannibalism from our lower cost products was my day job. In particular endless discussions about which features to leave in or out. Countless hours and dollars spent with the likes of Gartner group trying to figure out where the market was going. And we often made the wrong decisions and had to adapt. So yeah, been there. Done that. And you?


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## Orangutan (Nov 27, 2016)

lw said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Remind me – which successful, multinational, multi-billion dollar corporations have you run? Yeah, that's what I thought.
> ...



You knew they were wrong because they cost you sales. It's clear from available data that this is not the case for Canon. Canon has successfully navigated that path, at least much better than competitors, for over 10 years. My guess is that they will continue to do that.

Also, the reason you had those endless discussions about features was that you knew it would be unprofitable to put all your best features in a single product. Yes, there's a balance. Evidence shows Canon is balancing well.


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## David Littleboy (Nov 27, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> Is the omission utmost stupidity? No. Utmost stupidity would be to not even design it...... but it's omission is certainly a case of nickel and diming the customer for a part that should be included. They include batteries with cameras.... they include lens caps with lenses..... why not tripod mount with adaptor?



Because the mount adapter without the foot can be used without bumping into the third-party tripod mount plate you have on the body. And can be used with those smaller lenses that make gobs of sense on APS-C, like the 50/1.4 as a portrait lens, without cluttering up the form factor and tangling your fingers.

Watch this space for someone potentially really really irritated if the damn foot really does bump the RRS plate (which is beautifully made, by the way).

RRS did a great job getting the M5 plate + L bracket out before the M5; good work, guys. No such kudos for the folks at Lightroom. Sigh.


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## lw (Nov 27, 2016)

Orangutan said:


> You knew they were wrong because they cost you sales. It's clear from available data that this is not the case for Canon. Canon has successfully navigated that path, at least much better than competitors, for over 10 years. My guess is that they will continue to do that.
> 
> Also, the reason you had those endless discussions about features was that you knew it would be unprofitable to put all your best features in a single product. Yes, there's a balance. Evidence shows Canon is balancing well.



I don't disagree. I doubt the lack of a tripod foot is going to cost Canon sales. There's only a few of us nerds going to make an issue of it, and they can keep us quiet by just sending us one in the post


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## AvTvM (Nov 27, 2016)

there is nothing to be potentially "cannibalized" at stake in this case. Not including tripod-foot is just plain stupid. No matter, whether Neuro and the Canon Defense League considers that decision to be "brilliant", "well thought out" and "making lots of business sense". 

In reality it is a P.I.T.A and disappointment for many M5 kit customers. 

My business sense tells me, that all the manpower wasted, logistics involved and cost incurred in order "to just send it by post" to disgruntled customers complaining ... will be a magnitude higher than just including the damn item in all boxes.


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## Don Haines (Nov 27, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Remind me – which successful, multinational, multi-billion dollar corporations have you run?



Trump University? Come on now..... someone say Trump University.......


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 27, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> For lenses in the middle range, which according to sales numbers are the bulk of lenses sold, it becomes a different story. There is no tripod foot for the lens, yet if mounted by the camera the system becomes quite nose heavy. In this case an adaptor mount makes a lot of sense.
> 
> So here we are where in the bulk of cases that the EF mount would be used, that the tripod adaptor would be usefull.... To my mind it would make sense that the tripod mount would be included with the adaptor.
> 
> Is the omission utmost stupidity? No. Utmost stupidity would be to not even design it...... but it's omission is certainly a case of nickel and diming the customer for a part that should be included. They include batteries with cameras.... they include lens caps with lenses..... why not tripod mount with adaptor?



It makes sense _if_ you assume that 'in the bulk of cases that the EF mount would be used' it would be on a tripod. I'd argue that's not the case. 

As for nickel and diming the customer for a part that should be included, I think you'd agree with me that a lens hood improves IQ by reducing flare, and offers protection for the lens. Canon doesn't include that part with most non-L lenses. Step back and ask if that's hurt their sales of non-L lenses. Conversely, some 3rd party vendors do include the hood with consumer-level lenses...and given the frequency at which I see people shooting in full sun with the included hood mounted reversed and thus doing no good at all, it seems that Canon may have a good understanding of that market's needs and usage habits. The same is quite possibly true in their omission of the adapter foot.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 27, 2016)

lw said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > Remind me – which successful, multinational, multi-billion dollar corporations have you run? Yeah, that's what I thought.
> ...



I haven't, but it seems your experience has led to understanding:



lw said:


> I doubt the lack of a tripod foot is going to cost Canon sales. There's only a few of us nerds going to make an issue of it, and they can keep us quiet by just sending us one in the post



(Well, except for the fact that they don't really give a crap about keeping those few people quiet.)

My comment was directed specifically at AvTvM, the guy who repeatedly claims Canon is stupid, who claims they should design and make the products he specifically wants, e.g., an EF-M 85mm f/2.4 IS, because 'due to pent up demand, millions of people would buy one immediately', and other such ludicrous statements.


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## Don Haines (Nov 27, 2016)

BTW, I picked up a new tripod last week.

It included a soft cloth bag to protect the tripod from scratches....
It included a nice carry bag with a padded handle.....
It included a shoulder strap....
It included spike feet to replace the rubber feet.....
It included a stub centre column to replace the full size column....
It included all the tools required to assemble/disassemble/adjust the tripod....

All this could have been sold as separate accessories, but they chose to include them....
Most people will not use the spike feet and seldom use the stub centre column....

just saying.....


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## Don Haines (Nov 27, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> It makes sense _if_ you assume that 'in the bulk of cases that the EF mount would be used' it would be on a tripod. I'd argue that's not the case.


I would certainly agree with that point


neuroanatomist said:


> As for nickel and diming the customer for a part that should be included, I think you'd agree with me that a lens hood improves IQ by reducing flare, and offers protection for the lens. Canon doesn't include that part with most non-L lenses. Step back and ask if that's hurt their sales of non-L lenses. Conversely, some 3rd party vendors do include the hood with consumer-level lenses...and given the frequency at which I see people shooting in full sun with the included hood mounted reversed and thus doing no good at all, it seems that Canon may have a good understanding of that market's needs and usage habits. The same is quite possibly true in their omission of the adapter foot.


Also a valid observation....

But I do think that in the end, this issue comes down to a matter of personal opinion..... but regardless of our opinions, Canon decided not to include it, and for that, there must have been a reason. They have access to the data required to make that decision and we do not. We can only speculate as to what that reason is.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 27, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> BTW, I picked up a new tripod last week.
> 
> It included a soft cloth bag to protect the tripod from scratches....
> It included a nice carry bag with a padded handle.....
> ...



I bought a very expensive RRS TVC-33 a while back. 

It included a useless soft cloth synthetic fabric bag to protect the tripod from scratches (during shipping)....
I had to buy separately a nice carry bag with a padded handle.....
It did not include a shoulder strap....
I had to buy separately spike feet to replace the rubber feet.....
It did not include a centre column at all (although I could buy separately)....
It included all the tools required to assemble/disassemble/adjust the tripod....

After that, I bought an expensive monopod and another expensive tripod from RRS. 

Just saying.....


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 27, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> But I do think that in the end, this issue comes down to a matter of personal opinion..... but regardless of our opinions, Canon decided not to include it, and for that, there must have been a reason. They have access to the data required to make that decision and we do not. We can only speculate as to what that reason is.



Totally agree. I'd add that if Canon chooses to not sell the foot as a standalone accessory, but forces people who want the foot to buy the complete adapter set, _that_ would be pretty crappy. But I highly doubt that Canon will pass up that opportunity to sell another premium-priced accessory.


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## Don Haines (Nov 27, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > BTW, I picked up a new tripod last week.
> ...



Yes  Manufactures are all over the map with what they include and what they do not... That gives every one of us a case example to demonstrate our point about what to include and what not to include...... Our two tripods are a perfect example of two different manufactures with very different opinions on that.


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## lw (Nov 27, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Totally agree. I'd add that if Canon chooses to not sell the foot as a standalone accessory, but forces people who want the foot to buy the complete adapter set, _that_ would be pretty crappy. But I highly doubt that Canon will pass up that opportunity to sell another premium-priced accessory.



You mean Canon might sell a $94 tripod mount.
Or perhaps offer a $94 tripod mount kit with free EF adapter?


More likely one of the enterprising Chinese knock-off adapter makers might wake up to the fact they can just sell the tripod mount.


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## AvTvM (Nov 27, 2016)

well, accoriding to you line of argumentation, a sizeable segment of all M5 users will never use the adapter at all. So forcing all M5 buyers to purchase a kit with lens and "half an adapter" does not make much sense either. Canon could sell M5 body only and include vouchers to get 1 adapter at xx% off stand-alone price and to get 18-55 and/or other lenses at a "kit/bundle" discount. That would make sure, all customers get what they need or want, nothing being wasted and Canon getting sales and profits, without any bad will. 

that is the way I run my business.


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## lw (Nov 27, 2016)

I wonder if this is going to be a short term issue.
I remember when UK retailers first started advertising the M5 the 'free' adapter was billed as for 'pre-orders'.
"Pre-order the M5 and get a free EF mount adapter"

Perhaps once this initial batch of "Get started kits" as they are called run out, then they will be replaced by availability of the normal separate camera and adapter. The camera is already in its normal kit box, within the outer 'get started kit' box. So it is all ready for that


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 27, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> that is the way I run my business.



What is your market research budget? What were your unit sales of ILCs last fiscal year?

:


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## AvTvM (Nov 27, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> What is your market research budget? What were your unit sales of ILCs last fiscal year?


what are yours?


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 27, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> neuroanatomist said:
> 
> 
> > What is your market research budget? What were your unit sales of ILCs last fiscal year?
> ...



I'm not the one calling Canon stupid, and claiming I know how to run their business better than they do….despite decades worth of evidence that contradicts you. That puts the burden of proof squarely on you, and obviously it has proved far too heavy a burden for your inadequate shoulders.


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## Don Haines (Nov 27, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Don Haines said:
> 
> 
> > BTW, I picked up a new tripod last week.
> ...


But mine came with a box.....

Just saying.....


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 27, 2016)

Don Haines said:


> But mine came with a box.....



Does a quadrapod cost extra? ;D


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## Deleted member 378664 (Nov 28, 2016)

Today I got an answer from Canon, as you can expect it is very disappointing:

In summary they say:
1. I can't get a tripod foot delivered for free because I think it belongs to the adaptor as iti is stated so in the manual. Due to this faxct it is not offered in the online shop.
2. It is available for purchase separately not in the official shop but through spare part services. I have to ask for price and availability at one of the service partners.
3. It is recommended to me, that I can purchase the hole (adaptor including the tripod foot) separately.

My opinions to these answers:
1. They should urgent change their wording in the manuals and
2. At least they should officially anounce where and how one is able to get such a tripod foot
3. That one is the real joke. In fact I regard this as an effrontery. At least they have a lot of self-confidence.

regards
Frank

P.S.: The number for the spare part is: YG2-3016
P.S.2: I will ask the given service partners for price and availability. I'm just curious how much Canon is to charge for the spare part.
P.S.3: From the beginning I planned to resell the EF-EOS M adaptor as I already have one together wit my M, but without this tripod foot it is only woth the half. If the price of this spare part is more then 15 to 20 Euro's. I probably will sell the adaptor for maybe 40 to 50 Euro's instead of 80 to 90 Euro's without this tripod foot.


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## AvTvM (Nov 28, 2016)

Photorex said:


> P.S.: The number for the spare part is: YG2-3016
> P.S.2: I will ask the given service partners for price and availability. I'm just curious how much Canon is to charge for the spare part.



Thanks! Please keep us posted. 

and: good quality third party EF/EF-M adapters start from about € 35 ... including tripod foot.


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## Deleted member 378664 (Nov 28, 2016)

first answer from one of the service partners:

35,15 € tripod foot itself
7,50 € shipping
8,10 € 19% VAT

50,75 € + 2 € for the payment method (per Nachname). This a method where you pay the postman, when he delivers the product. Not very popular.

This is simply ridiculous! And to top this. The part is not deliverable at all.

regards
Frank


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## lw (Nov 28, 2016)

I spoke to the spares supplier this morning that Canon support referred me to.

They have filled in the necessary requisition to send me the part, but it needs Canon approval. So we shall see.

But having had the reply from Canon support (see earlier post) that they thought it should be in the box, I will maintain that the instruction manual says don't use on a tripod without one and that it is misleading not to include it.

At a minimum I expect them to at least sell me the foot given it is a recognised part, and at a low cost.


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## lw (Nov 28, 2016)

Photorex said:


> first answer from one of the service partners:
> 
> 35,15 € tripod foot itself
> 7,50 € shipping
> ...



I agree That is ridiculous.


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## AvTvM (Nov 28, 2016)

Photorex said:


> 50,75 € + 2 € for the payment method (per Nachname).
> ...
> And to top this. The part is not deliverable at all.



Thanks. Exactly what I expected from fabulous, innovative, absolutely GREAT and not in the least stupid Canon.


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## troy19 (Nov 28, 2016)

Photorex said:


> Today I got an answer from Canon, as you can expect it is very disappointing



This answer from Canon is surely disappointing, but was predictable. 

Well, (to me) there's no big damage (bought a new adaptor with tripod-support for 70 €, will sell the other one for 50 €), but the real damage is done to Canons image.

So Canon is now in line with other manufacturers when it comes to marketing/customer support failures. They missed the chance to deal with problems in a more sensible way.

Consequence: Will cancel my order for the M5  (just joking)


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## AvTvM (Nov 28, 2016)

troy19 said:


> Consequence: Will cancel my order for the M5  (just joking)



will further delay my order for M5. (not joking)


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## troy19 (Nov 28, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> troy19 said:
> 
> 
> > Consequence: Will cancel my order for the M5  (just joking)
> ...


Thank you, I may win one place on the waiting list


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## AvTvM (Nov 28, 2016)

troy19 said:


> AvTvM said:
> 
> 
> > troy19 said:
> ...



be my guest!


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## lw (Nov 28, 2016)

Looks like I am in the same catch-22 situation as Photorex.

Canon wouldn't authorize their preferred supplier to send me the part as they said it is not missing from the box.

And the preferred supplier won't sell me the part either as they are not allowed by Canon to sell parts, only complete items.

So you can't buy an M5 in the EU without the included adaptor sans tripod mount, and you can't buy the tripod mount alone.

So I have gone back to Canon again and told them that this seems a rather strange state of affairs and asked once again that they supply me a tripod mount.

Amazon are quite happy for me to return the M5 for a full refund, but that seems a rather dramatic course of action.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 28, 2016)

lw said:


> So you can't buy an M5 in the EU without the included adaptor sans tripod mount, and you can't buy the tripod mount alone.



Right. You bought a kit that included an adapter in a box labeled 'without tripod mount', so you can't claim they left something out. Arguing that it should have been included because of a statement in the manual or just because they should or because Canon is stupid (looking at you, AvTvM) is going to fall on deaf ears. 

So perhaps a more practical approach...say that hypothetically you had bought the standalone adapter a year or two ago, then accidentally misplaced the detachable tripod mount. Oops. In that case, Canon's parts department may be willing to sell you a replacement for the 'lost' foot, and probably that would be cheaper than buying the standalone adapter. Just a suggestion.


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## lw (Nov 28, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Right. You bought a kit that included an adapter in a box labeled 'without tripod mount', so you can't claim they left something out.



From Canon's perspective perhaps.

But at the time anyone placed a pre-order, no retailer said that the adaptor came without the tripod mount. So everyone ordered it with an expectation it would. 

And Amazon (who still make no mention of that), are quite happy for me to return the camera. 

As I said before, I already asked the supplier how much a tripod mount would cost me to purchase, and their response is they cannot sell the mount alone as Canon will not allow them to sell individual parts, only the complete adaptor with mount.


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 28, 2016)

lw said:


> I already asked the supplier how much a tripod mount would cost me to purchase, and their response is they cannot sell the mount alone as Canon will not allow them to sell parts, only the whole adaptor with mount.



Not a 3rd party supplier, but the parts department of Canon Service in your country. I know that here in the US, I can call up the Canon Parts Order Desk and buy a rubber zoom ring cover for my 24-70/2.8L II, a battery door or rear LCD glass cover for my 1D X, etc.


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## AvTvM (Nov 28, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> lw said:
> 
> 
> > I already asked the supplier how much a tripod mount would cost me to purchase, and their response is they cannot sell the mount alone as Canon will not allow them to sell parts, only the whole adaptor with mount.
> ...



VERY different in Europa. No Canon Service Departments in most EU countries [Non-EU don't even think about it]. Where I live, there is exactly 1 service partner countrywide. They will NOT sell spare parts. You can only send in gear and get it repaired and/or worn out or missing spare parts replaced. 

In large markete (e.g. Germany) you may have a chance, if you physically show up at the CPS repair center. 

Otherwise, you may have a small chance if you know a Canon/CS representative well. But that's it, short of stealing that damn tripod foot from the Canon stand at the next exhibition/trade show/marketing event. : 

Even then, the part plus shipping may well cost more than ordering an entire new adapter with tripod-foot at amazon or an other online source. 

Circumstances like these make it even more unpleasant and aggravating when stupid Canon decides to go about cost cutting by leaving out small cost parts from forced-kit boxes instead of slashing executive bonuses by a couple billion (Yen).


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## rrcphoto (Nov 28, 2016)

Photorex said:


> Today I got an answer from Canon, as you can expect it is very disappointing:
> 
> P.S.3: From the beginning I planned to resell the EF-EOS M adaptor as I already have one together wit my M, but without this tripod foot it is only woth the half. If the price of this spare part is more then 15 to 20 Euro's. I probably will sell the adaptor for maybe 40 to 50 Euro's instead of 80 to 90 Euro's without this tripod foot.



so basically it sounds like you are trying to do what canon was attempting not to have happen, the market dumped with used adapters that were part of the kit.

Personally I never have seen the point of of the tripod adapter (I have an M adapter for my m and m3 and soon for the m5) .. and if the lens is heavy enough, it has it's own tripod mount anyway.

dunno, but certainly bizarre decision for Canon UK / Europe to do.


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## rrcphoto (Nov 28, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> Yes! It is (was) an extra advantage of the EF-M/EF adapter to serve as a well-designed and low cost way to equip non-collared lenses with a tripod foot.



as the camera(s) get heavier and larger there is far less need for an adapter tripod mount. the larger lenses all have space for a collar mount, or a collar mount, and the smaller lenses certainly don't need an adapter mount - it's not going to change the balance that much or help the camera out that much, especially if it's well designed.

Not to mention it's awkward. I end up taking the damned thing off most times and then forgetting it in the bag or something when I do need it .. frankly .. I don't get the angst.. 

However, I do understand your point:

molehill >>> mountain.


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## Deleted member 378664 (Nov 28, 2016)

troy19 said:


> ..., but the real damage is done to Canons image....
> 
> So Canon is now in line with other manufacturers when it comes to marketing/customer support failures. They missed the chance to deal with problems in a more sensible way.
> 
> Consequence: Will cancel my order for the M5  (just joking)



You know the Canon Image Gateway? May be they should rename it to Canon Image get away. 8)

Frank

The main point for me is. They can leave it out of this kit package, but they should at least advertise this fact for the product so anyone knows what he buys *in advance*, not only when one unboxes his kit. And in the same time they start delivering the kit they should be able to offer the tripod mount as a separat accesory in official shops. This would be at least a fair product offering. If you do not agree to this offer, than simply pass by or you buy it and know what you buy. Customers who want to use the camera on a tripod would be way more pleased with the mentioned approach.

I like the possibility to use this cam for macro work together with the EF-S 60mm and the EF 100mm Macro lenses. So for me it is a keypoint of using the cam with tripod.


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## lw (Nov 28, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> Not a 3rd party supplier, but the parts department of Canon Service in your country.



All Canon service in the UK is dealt with by 3rd party companies. e.g. warranty repairs, servicing, etc. And a good job they do of it too.
If you ask Canon, then they refer you to the 'preferred supplier'.
There is no Canon service centre or Canon parts department.

That's exactly what I did. And this is the answer I got.

There may be alternatives available to you if you are a CPS member. But the M5 doesnt qualify as a CPS product...

If Canon still refuse to supply it (which wouldn't surprise me), then I will try a different supplier and see if they are able to sell it.


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## rrcphoto (Nov 28, 2016)

Photorex said:


> I like the possibility to use this cam for macro work together with the EF-S 60mm and the EF 100mm Macro lenses. So for me it is a keypoint of using the cam with tripod.



The 60 EF-S isn't heavy enough to need an adapter tripod mount, over the camera tripod mount, and the EF 100mm has it's own collar. the heavist .. is what .. 1.4lb?

A DSLR does not have the tripod mount point that close to the lens mount either.


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## lw (Nov 28, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> The 60 EF-S isn't heavy enough to need an adapter tripod mount, over the camera tripod mount, and the EF 100mm has it's own collar. the heavist .. is what .. 1.4lb?


But my Sigma 100 macro doesn't.



rrcphoto said:


> A DSLR does not have the tripod mount point that close to the lens mount either.



Perhaps the DSLR has a stronger frame to support the lens mount.

They should at least update the manual if the feel the tripod mount is unnecessary with the M5

However, the other point I raised still stands.
None of my Manfrotto tripod plates fit onto the camera body without bumping into the adaptor, because the base of the adaptor is lower than the base of the camera.

I know - change all my tripods and heads.... of course, silly me.


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## rrcphoto (Nov 28, 2016)

lw said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > The 60 EF-S isn't heavy enough to need an adapter tripod mount, over the camera tripod mount, and the EF 100mm has it's own collar. the heavist .. is what .. 1.4lb?
> ...



ah I never saw that.. now THAT is a very lousy thing.

I'm wondering if the china knockoffs have a different radius and/or bolt thread - you should be able to get an adapter from china for like 25 bucks. I see them on ebay.

TINSTAAFL I guess.


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## AvTvM (Nov 28, 2016)

re. lens collars: they are expensive and usually for 1 lens only. Nice thing about the adapter + tripod foot is, that it is *absolutely universal* and fairly inexpensive. Only 1 part rather than having to buy 1 dedicated item for each lens. 

Adapter with foot works nicely with EF-S 60, EF 100 L Macro, Non-L Macro, Third-Party lenses ... just about anything. Even with a small and light lens like EF 50/1.8 STM handling on a tripod is nicer with the tripod foot since there is more clearance over/around tripod (ball) head than with camera directly in clamp. 

Only disadvantage of EF-M adapter tripod foot relative to dedicated (well-designed) lens collars is that it cannot be rotated from landscape to portrait orientation. On the other hand, not all lens collars are well designed, and some cannot even be taken off the lens. The tripod foot on adapter is easily detachable.


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## Deleted member 378664 (Nov 28, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> Photorex said:
> 
> 
> > I like the possibility to use this cam for macro work together with the EF-S 60mm and the EF 100mm Macro lenses. So for me it is a keypoint of using the cam with tripod.
> ...



Agreed. Fortunately there are small enough camera plates available one can mount to the camera thread without interfering with the adapter and the tiltable screen. see issue from @lw

http://www.canonrumors.com/forum/index.php?topic=31144.msg637642#msg637642

Frank


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## cnardo (Nov 28, 2016)

Getting back to the original OP subject "When is the M5 shipping?" and off of this ridiculous discussion of the EF adapter being included/not-included/free/not-free... Just got off the phone with B&H.... they say that they will not get the M5 until Dec 8th !!!! Is anybody else hearing something different. Placed my pre-on Sept 9th ! :'(


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## lw (Nov 29, 2016)

lw said:


> I will try a different supplier and see if they are able to sell it.



One of Canon's approved service centres has said they can supply the tripod mount for £44 inc VAT and postage


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## AvTvM (Nov 29, 2016)

lw said:


> lw said:
> 
> 
> > I will try a different supplier and see if they are able to sell it.
> ...



now is that Black Friday deal or Cyber Monday deal? ;D :


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## neuroanatomist (Nov 29, 2016)

lw said:


> However, the other point I raised still stands.
> None of my Manfrotto tripod plates fit onto the camera body without bumping into the adaptor, because the base of the adaptor is lower than the base of the camera.
> 
> I know - change all my tripods and heads.... of course, silly me.



If you're using their RC2 system, this may be just the excuse you need to ditch that in favor of the far better Arca-Swiss system. Personally, I found the play in the "locked" RC2 clamp/plate to be annoying, particularly with fine positioning for macro shooting. The lack of an anti-twist feature on the plates can also be problematic. Their larger plates (RC0 and RC4) do not have play in the clamps, but those plates are big enough to be an ergonomic nightmare and still lack anti-twist. The Arca-Swiss system also opens the doors to a world of good L-brackets, macro rails, etc.


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## dppaskewitz (Nov 29, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> lw said:
> 
> 
> > However, the other point I raised still stands.
> ...



And once you take the plunge to Arca-Swiss, here is the link for the company that sells the L Brackets. This is for the M3 (I have this bracket and it works very well). My guess is that Mengs will quickly produce one for the M5 once it starts to ship. http://www.gumptrade.com/photography-accessories/quick-release-plate/m3l-l-shaped-camera-quick-release-plate-1-4-screw-for-canon-m3-camera.html?___store=en


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## AvTvM (Nov 29, 2016)

dppaskewitz said:


> ...
> And once you take the plunge to Arca-Swiss, here is the link for the company that sells the L Brackets. This is for the M3 (I have this bracket and it works very well). My guess is that Mengs will quickly produce one for the M5 once it starts to ship. http://www.gumptrade.com/photography-accessories/quick-release-plate/m3l-l-shaped-camera-quick-release-plate-1-4-screw-for-canon-m3-camera.html?___store=en



yep. For my M I bought a "Mengs"-branded universal L-Bracket ... € 15.99 incl. 20% VAT (sales tax). 
https://www.amazon.de/gp/product/B00E5XSIJS/ref=ox_sc_sfl_title_1?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=A3JZTMFUUQ40AH
Despite 2-part construction the bracket is more than solid for an M class camera and fits well enough to cause no handling issues whatsoever. Does not twist either. Will hopefully also fit future EOS M's to come and go. 

I am done with buying *camera-body specific accessories* for lots of money. 

It also proves quite well, how CHEAP such parts can be made, shipped and sold. And how mean, evil and greedy Canon really is by not supplying that adapter tripod foot in their forced-kits.


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## JPAZ (Nov 29, 2016)

dppaskewitz said:


> ..... here is the link for the company that sells the L Brackets. This is for the M3 (I have this bracket and it works very well). My guess is that Mengs will quickly produce one for the M5 once it starts to ship. http://www.gumptrade.com/photography-accessories/quick-release-plate/m3l-l-shaped-camera-quick-release-plate-1-4-screw-for-canon-m3-camera.html?___store=en



+1

I know that RRS has an L-bracket for the M5 already, but it is a bit pricey. I also use a much less expensive L-Bracket on my M3 ( was less than $20) that fits perfectly and allows access to the battery with the bracket in place. I feel like it is strong enough for its purpose. The M3 with an EF-M lens is not that heavy and any EF lens needs the adapter (mine is from Canon when I got the M1 so it does have the tripod adapter) and bigger lenses have their own tripod foot. The only issue I've had with this knock-off bracket is that the screw holding the side piece (what makes this an L instead of just a base plate) came a little loose. The easy fix is to just tighten it from time to time or add a little "Loctite" and the issue is gone.

If (more likely when) I make the jump to the M5, I'll probably go to E-bay and find another L-bracket which should be made by someone by then.


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## Deleted member 378664 (Dec 2, 2016)

Photorex said:


> In Germany the tripod mount is not included in the "kit adaptor".This fact is even stated on the package, but the user manual did not mention that the tripod mount is to be bought seperately and even recommends to use the mounted adaptor only with the tripod mount if working on a tripod. Additionally this tripod mount is not available as a seperat product currently in the Canon shop.



Since a view weeks there is an advertising campaign from Canon in Germany saying:"Do something good. Help to make the Christmas days a little more #selifeless".

Now they have a new campaign:






regards
Frank


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## lw (Dec 3, 2016)

After a couple of email exchanges with Canon support there answer remains the same. Tough!

_Thank you for your request and for contacting Canon.

Further to our written communication, we have read your e-mails and we do understand your enquiry, however we cannot supply you with any items because we do not sell any items.

If the mount is not provided in the box and it is not a part of the kit package, we regret to inform you that you would have to purchase it separately.

We do understand your enquiry and are very sorry to hear that the way the product is sold is causing you inconvenience. We can assure you that your feedback is taken into consideration._


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## Deleted member 378664 (Dec 3, 2016)

lw said:


> After a couple of email exchanges with Canon support there answer remains the same. Tough!
> 
> _Thank you for your request and for contacting Canon.
> ...
> We do understand your enquiry and are very sorry to hear that the way the product is sold is causing you inconvenience. We can assure you that your feedback is taken into consideration._



At least there is a little hope, that future buyers will have the tripod foot included.

But I'm wondering that you are constantly getting the statement, the tripod foot can't be bought separately. At least in Germany I could buy it as a spare part if I wanted to spend over 50€. Meanwhile I got a second quote but this topped the already high 51€ from the first one by further 10€.


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## troy19 (Dec 3, 2016)

Photorex said:


> Since a view weeks there is an advertising campaign from Canon in Germany saying:"Do something good. Help to make the Christmas days a little more #selifeless".
> 
> Now they have a new campaign:


You fooled me, at first I thought it was a real campaign. Good work


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## Deleted member 378664 (Dec 3, 2016)

troy19 said:


> You fooled me, at first I thought it was a real campaign. Good work



HaHa.

I wasn't able to find the suitable font, so I took the single letters from the rest of the text and copied them together to the word "#stativadapterless". There was no "v" and "p". I created the "v" from a "w" and for the "p" I used a "d" and turned it by 180 degrees. This way it looks very realisitc.

Frank


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## Fleetie (Dec 4, 2016)

troy19 said:


> Photorex said:
> 
> 
> > Since a view weeks there is an advertising campaign from Canon in Germany saying:"Do something good. Help to make the Christmas days a little more #selifeless".
> ...


Yes, it was well done. Respect!


Way better than the puerile rubbish that Neuro spews when he is bored - which seems to be most of the time - at least until he gets to his coveted 20k posts, at which point, I hope he'll stop flooding the board with inane, pointless, unhelpful tripe.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 4, 2016)

Fleetie said:


> Way better than the puerile rubbish that Neuro spews when he is bored - which seems to be most of the time - at least until he gets to his coveted 20k posts, at which point, I hope he'll stop flooding the board with inane, pointless, unhelpful tripe.



Thanks for another of your usual helpful and highly valued additions to the forums. Have a nice day.


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## ethanz (Dec 4, 2016)

I wish I had a 400mm to capture the fly ball from left field that sentence came from. Neuro's posts aren't bad, he just has a different type of humor. And I'm kind of excited for him to get 20,000 posts. That is quite a milestone.


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## neuroanatomist (Dec 4, 2016)

ethanz said:


> I wish I had a 400mm to capture the fly ball from left field that sentence came from. Neuro's posts aren't bad, he just has a different type of humor. And I'm kind of excited for him to get 20,000 posts. That is quite a milestone.



Perhaps I should hit 19999 then go on holiday. ;D


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## AvTvM (Dec 4, 2016)

neuroanatomist said:


> ethanz said:
> 
> 
> > I wish I had a 400mm to capture the fly ball from left field that sentence came from. Neuro's posts aren't bad, he just has a different type of humor. And I'm kind of excited for him to get 20,000 posts. That is quite a milestone.
> ...



first make 20k to earn the big time Canon Defense league jackpot bonus ... THEN go on holidays.  ;D ;D ;D


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## lw (Dec 5, 2016)

Photorex said:


> At least there is a little hope, that future buyers will have the tripod foot included.



The annoying thing is the retailers don't seem to care either. Amazon's attitude is return it if you don't like it.



> But I'm wondering that you are constantly getting the statement, the tripod foot can't be bought separately. At least in Germany I could buy it as a spare part if I wanted to spend over 50€. Meanwhile I got a second quote but this topped the already high 51€ from the first one by further 10€.



I have found a Canon service centre that will sell them - Lehmans. But it is similar to you - £44 inc VAT and Postage.

A very well made 3rd party adaptor including the mount is cheaper than that.


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## AvTvM (Dec 5, 2016)

I often see the original Canon EF-M adapter - with tripod foot - offered "used" for very little money [like 40 €] ... usually in "almost unused" condition. 

Before I would give pone cent to Canon for that tripod foot they have omitted from their forced-kits [in Europe only, it appears], I will rather buy the whole thing used. No additional sales revenue for GREEDY Canon.


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## rrcphoto (Dec 5, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> I often see the original Canon EF-M adapter - with tripod foot - offered "used" for very little money [like 40 €] ... usually in "almost unused" condition.
> 
> Before I would give pone cent to Canon for that tripod foot they have omitted from their forced-kits [in Europe only, it appears], I will rather buy the whole thing used. No additional sales revenue for GREEDY Canon.



or get a chinese knockoff through ebay.


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## AvTvM (Dec 5, 2016)

rrcphoto said:


> or get a chinese knockoff through ebay.



I actually prefer not to take any risks on adapters. So I'd rather get the Canon adapter "used, like new". That way I have an original Canon product without Canon getting any money for it. I enjoy that feeling ... a lot. 8)


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## photogdan (Dec 7, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > or get a chinese knockoff through ebay.
> ...



Speaking of adapters, has anyone noticed the price lately? Canon wants $127 for a refurbished model. They range from $150-200 on Amazon. eBay has a ton of knock-offs but a used Canon model runs about $100.

I must admit it's been a while (when I got my M1) since I looked at the price but I remember paying less than $50 on Amazon for the white box version. 

Canon is giving them away (with the tripod foot) if you buy a refurbished M3 or M10.


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## njene (Dec 7, 2016)

AvTvM said:


> rrcphoto said:
> 
> 
> > or get a chinese knockoff through ebay.
> ...



You enjoy some weird things


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## zsolexphoto (Dec 10, 2016)

Is it possible to read out the shutter counter with gphoto2 on EOS M5?

gphoto2 --get-config /main/status/shuttercounter


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